I am a former WWS from about 3.5 years ago (an emotional affair) and the marriage builders methods and my wife really helped save our marriage. My wife has been active on these forums since.


The reason why I'm writing now is:


1. Recently I started to talk with a co-worker in private. it's been going on for about 1.5-2 weeks now. I really don't know why I started this, I'm not attracted to this person and not sure of the gain, but I let it happen. The extent of what we did was talk on the phone and use IM. When I noticed that It seemed to be frequent I started to erase them so that there wasn't suspicion. Now there's 100 times more suspicion.


2. Tonight I learned that my wife was going to confront this person about our calls and I felt compelled to at least give them a heads up. I called her and was very strait foreword and to the point. I let her know that I've been erasing our calls and my wife has learned of this. I told her that my wife will probable be calling and I was sorry for putting her in this situation.

I'm very angry at my self for betraying my wife's trust and hurting her.

In that case can you explain why you felt the need to contact and give the heads up to your affair partner, assuming that you are truthful about following the MB principals then this OW would have known that you are married and had no business talking to you and if you mess with a married man you should expect the wife to confront you.

Stop lying stop hiding things and stop deceiving your poor undeserving wife. Go tell her exactly what you have been up to, write the OW a NC letter and start to work on your marriage.

Sorry, I ain't buying it for 2 seconds. If you weren't doing anything wrong you wouldn't have had anything TO erase because the evidence would have exonerated you. People don't remove evidence that will EXONERATE them.

And people don't WARN the OP either, because an innocent party would WANT their spouse to get the full story. YOU DIDN'T.

Your story stinks to high heaven, Sir. A 5 year old could see through it and I amazed that you believe that any sane adult would believe this story.

But I may be completely stupid and will the first one to admit it if you can pass a polygraph.

Would you be willing to take a polygraph to PROVE your innocence?

Welcome back, Chris.

If you've been here 3+ years, you oughtta know this stuff better than I do. If you know MB, then you know what Extraordinary Precautions are. What were yours?
And what made you decide that they could allow non-work-related conversations with another woman without your wife's knowledge?
Sorry, I have to call "bullsh**" on this statement. I think you know very well why: Same reason I got into the EA that led to my PA -- You dug having someone talk to you & give you attention. (Notice how my wife didn't factor into my thinking then?)

So, what are you going to do about it?

You are so IN LUCK. See, if you have a smartphone like an Android or an Iphone, there is a special "spy stick" that can retrieve deleted IMs and text messages. Did you know this? Your wife could use this to retrieve those deleted IMs and texts. You could PROVE to her that your conversations were purely platonic.

Do you have a smart phone? This could be a way to prove your story to her.

I do. Because you have no boundaries and don't care how badly you hurt your wife. Thats why.

You "let it happen"?

What you did was active - not passive. You MADE those calls. You did the chatting. You didn't "let" anything happen; you made it happen.

How many times have you done this before? How many EAs or PAs have there been, including this one?

Chris, the several questions I asked you are not merely rhetorical questions.

If you're serious about getting "through this" the right way, and not just trying to buff your external image (like you were when you were deleting texts to hide them from your wife), then how about you stick around & answer them here for starters, and we'll take it from there?

Please let me have all this sink in. I feel like I have been stoned in the court yard and yes I do deserve it. My head is spinning, I need time to digest. Sorry I didn't respond until now, I didn't realize how quickly I was going to get responses.

I know it was active. I did make the calls and no one was forcing me. This is the second time now. Not sure what EA or PA stands for, sorry.

I let my boundaries down and I really do care that I hurt my wife.

I let my boundaries down and I really do care that I hurt my wife.

Welcome to the MB Forums.

It's sad how willing you were to risk the 3.5 years of MB work both you and your wife have done.
It all came undone quickly, didn't it?

I'm glad you're here.
But I do want to know what you are doing to correct the actions that have occured over the past two weeks?

What are you willing to do to help your wife?

I let my boundaries down and I do care that I hurt my wife.

I see nothing here that indicates care. Nothing. You put her through this hell a SECOND TIME. You then compound the betrayal by warning your OW behind your wife's back. Your post here is all about you.

So what is it exactly that is supposed to demonstrate care?

Your affair was the worst thing that ever happened to your wife. It's the worst experience of her life -- worse than the loss of a child. Can you imagine anything being that bad? Well, you did it to her, and she is suffering as a result. And you now do this to her......AGAIN?

If that is your notion of "care" then I would advise her to run for her life, my friend.

Chris,

You are the only one that has stoned anyone.

You chose to stone your wife!

Do you see this?


The world is falling in on your wife because of YOUR actions. It's not your world that is falling in my friend.

Please don't turn this upside down to be all about you, OK!

If you stay clearheaded, the solution is very simple.

BE HONEST!

BE HONEST, even if it hurts you!

Show and tell your wife every one of those texts that were erased. They can be retrieved through various methods.

BE HONEST!

It really is that simple.....

Chris,
Abbreviations are here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2519048&page=1

Maybe you didn't really spend much time reading up on MarriageBuilders ideas after your first EA (Emotional Affair)? Maybe you let your wife do the heavy lifting? (I'm just guessing here; otherwise, seems to me you'd know some of this stuff).

Well, now's the time to get into it and, indeed, start to digest it.
I suggest you read the book "Surviving An Affair." It will likely give you some insight -- honest insight -- into why you've acted as you have, and into what youre wife is feeling. I know it was an eye-opened for me.

Here's the thing: Care isn't a feeling; care consists of actions that you [must] undertake on a consistent, reliable basis to protect your wife's feelings & to meet her emotional needs.

One of the ways you start to care is, you be honest (for honesty is likely one of her greatest needs, especially right now). Deleting the messages to hide their content & frequency isn't honest. Tipping off the other chick so that she can "spin" the story to your wife isn't honest. These things are the opposite of honest. As PapaBear has said, you need to get honest.

Look, Chris: You married your wife. You thought she was worth your ring once. Maybe you still think that. If so, you need to be doing motivation-checks on yourself & everything you do right now. Your way out of this mess isn't by covering your butt. It's by opening up, taking your medicine, and starting to demonstrate the care you claim to have for her, by being willing to put her feelings first.

I'm not finished. I asked you what you were going to do about it, and I'm still waiting for your answer. Have you read up on the concept of Extraordinary Precautions? If not, you can do a search for the term on this site. I'd like to see your list of EPs.

You can "get through this" and have a better marriage, but you've gotta take action & make some changes.

Remember: Care means action.

This is all really stating to hit me on what I've done. I want to run away and die somewhere..........I don't feel that I deserve forgiveness. All you guys are right. I'm sick to my stomach and feel like i'm spinning out of control. I'm not trying to make this about me again, these feelings I have are because of what I've done. I have issues. I hear the hostility, anger and resentment towards me in most of the replies. I can't believe that I'm that person.
To make things worse we also have two special needs children.

OK, I see your point.

Chris, what are you going to DO?

You need to admit what you have done, to your WIFE.

Your ugly A needs to be exposed to ALL.

OW is a co-worker right? You need to leave that job, and you should tell them WHY you are leaving.

Set up a polygraph and go through with it to show your wife that you are willing to be HONEST about what you have done.

YOU need to do the heavy lifting.

And you have to let your WIFE decide if she wants to remain married to a serial adulterer, cuz she may not want to. And none of us here would fault her for that.

Ask your wife to come here and post.

Chris,

You say you aren't trying to make this all about you, but that is said in the same breath with "I want to run away and die somewhere". Those are the words of a immature, self-focused individual, so knock that off, okay? Those words do not communicate remorse, really they don't.

There is no time for hand-wringing. Show your remorse through ACTIONS.

-Get honest. 100%.

-Get to work on figuring out how to retrieve those deleted messages for your wife.

-Get the book Surviving An Affair and read it.

-Call the Harleys.

-Offer to give your wife a post nuptial agreement. Call an attorney and schedule an appointment to do that.

-Write out a list of Extraordinary Precautions that you will follow to prevent this from ever happening again.

If you are truly sorry and want your marriage, then be humble and lay yourself bare to your wife. No more drama, okay? That is not attractive and it does not demonstrate sincerity -- it only shows you to be most concerned about how this may impact you. And by the way, these posts to you are not full of "anger", "hostility" and "resentment" -- they are full of care for your marriage -- mine included.

Mrs. W

chris,

do the right thing for your family because you love them, stand up for what is right in this world, why hurt the ones you love for what a few conversations. WHY!!!
you need to become a better man and not let this stuff happen, it's up to you to love your family no one else................
no more mistakes....

Chris,

People have asked you questions on this thread. Are you planning on answering?

Mrs. W

Chris, this is really overly dramatic. It sounds to me like you are thinking that the way through this is to talk about how horrible what you did is, emphasize it, show that you agree that what you did was wrong and feel horrible for it, etc.

It is true that what you did was horrible. But simply beating yourself up verbally will never make your wife feel better. Instead of expressing dramatic guilt and talking about how horrible you are, let your feelings of REMORSE and COMPASSION FOR YOUR VICTIM motivate you to express care for your victim. Others are describing specific things you need to DO. Focus on what you can DO to make this better, not what you can SAY, because you can never make this better by mere words alone.

I've suggestions like:
* Be radically honest with your wife. Describe to her every message, have them retrieved, offer to take a polygraph test.

And I am going to add:
* Leave your job. You cannot be trusted around this coworker ever again.
* Get the book Surviving an Affair. Copy the no-contact letter from that book, put the names from your situation into it, address it to your co-worker in an unsealed envelope, and give it to your wife to mail.

Talk is cheap, sir. "Former" waywards are the ones who have dug themselves out of the hole, not those who have talked their way out of it.

This is merely an excuse not to do what was suggested.

You can DO the things that have been suggested WHILE your head spins and WHILE you digest everything that is sinking in.

Get up and DO.

If you TALK instead of DO, that will be a clear signal to your wife and to us that this is all just BS.

What is your wife's posting name?

Instead of focusing on how bad you have it, how about focusing on making this right with your wife and EARNING her forgiveness in a way you never have in the past? This is the time to put your money where your mouth is and back up all those professions of "care" with action.

Start with HONESTY. She has a right to know everything you said to this woman and withholding that from her is cruel and manipulative. You can't establish trust or recover a marriage based on a lie. That is the first step. You aren't being honest about your communications with this woman. Why not tell her the truth about deleted texts before she gets them on her own?

I can tell from your story here that you aren't being honest so I have no doubt she senses it too. That is the first step. This ship isn't going anywhere unless you are honest.

Don't we all!





Chris,

NOBODY is being hostile.

Nobody is resentful toward you.

Are some people angry toward YOU? NO!

Trying to help you see through your foggy excuses? YES!

Trying to help you see that the only victim here is your wife? YES!

Are posters blunt and to the point? YES! It's the only way to guide you out of your fog my friend.

Please pay attention....... Most of the people posting to you were once wayward spouses themselves, myself included..... We get it and we want to see you get it too, OK...

The way that I hurt my wife is unspeakable.........over someone that I don't even know. Yes, I do admit that I had an EA and I don't know why. My family is my foundation, my life and I'm trying to throw it away....WHY!!! What is wrong with me. My family doesn't deserve a person like me and certainly don't deserve them. I have the most beautiful loving wife but apparently that isn't enough for me. I want to do the right thing.

I need help, please! Don't hate me. I really want to do the right thing and came up with a list to start with:

1. I'm going to try and answer the questions on this thread.
2. I'm going to give my 2 week notice at my job.
3. I will have absolutely no contact with this OW.
4. I'm going to come up with a protection plan that I will post here for critiquing.

Theres going to be more added to this list.

Your list is a good start.

Please re-read what has already been posted to you. There are some questions needing answered and some suggestions that need added to your list.

#1 needs to be.... Disclose all information to my wife TODAY and be honest with her TODAY. OK?

I'm not innocent. I didn't want to admit it to myself, but I was having an EA. The sad thing is, is that I don't even really know this OW. My wife has been there for me over 16 years.

5. No more "Woe is ME" statements.

To paraphrase something another poster has often said:

"You are crying and screaming over a paper cut on your finger while your wife is lying on the floor, bleeding out from a knife wound through her heart."

STOP THAT!

Yes, you have screwed up your life and marriage, but you have screwed over your wife much, much worse. SHE is the one who needs help from YOU.

Talk to your wife today. Be honest with her and explain what you plan to do as a measure of beginning recovery in your marriage. Let her explain to you what she will require in order to recover from this.

Would your wife be willing to come here?

You are correct. You did engage in an emotional affair.

As for "why?" The answer to this question has already been posted in your thread. When you reread your thread to make a list of things to do and questions to answer, be on the lookout for the answer to this question. When you find it, write it down so you won't forget it. Then, don't obsess or be dramatic over this "why" question any more, okay? If you find yourself saying "why?" to yourself, just read the answer to yourself.

Chris, the answer to all of this is in your thread, as I said. I'm going to go back and find the answer for you. And then I'm going to show how you missed it!

Look:

That was your answer, Chris. Write it down. MelodyLane gave you the answer for free, possibly saving you thousands of dollars and years in therapy. You'll find that there are a lot of people here who are awesome that way!

This really is the answer to "why," Chris. There is no other. But you missed the answer, because you weren't listening. Look:


See that? You were arguing instead of listening. MelodyLane told you what the answer was, told you WHY you did what you did. This is the answer to why you had at least two affairs, and there is no other answer. But you missed it the first time because you were busy arguing and trying to defend yourself.

Don't do that any more, okay? It's extremely counterproductive for you. You have nothing to prove to us. Nobody gains anything out of you trying to talk us into believing something about you. Not you, not us, not your wife, not your children. Listen and take notes, okay? Don't be so quick to talk because YOU MISS IMPORTANT STUFF THIS WAY.

So here's your answer. Please write it down, and the next time you find yourself asking "why?" please don't post the question here again; just read the answer to yourself.

Go back through your thread and write down a list of questions to answer (my question is what is your wife's posting name. We want to see her thread, too.) And write down a list of things to do. Post your answers, and post your combined list, and then start ticking off things on the list, doing them all, starting with honesty to your wife.

You didn't have to "admit" it to your self, though, because you knew the truth. I appreciate your honesty here, but I would take it further. This is a good start. But the whole truth has to come out.

Why not start right here and tell us the true story of your relationship with this woman? How did it start? Where was it leading? Tell us the story so we understand it. We can help you tell the story to your wife in an honest, comprehensive way. That is the first step, honesty.

Chris, you already know ALL the truth about what you did!

We admit our guilt to our victims.

In your case you admit your shortcomings to your wife through the action of full disclosure and Radical Honesty.

Actually you knew her more than you are admitting....

Trying to soften the blow to your wife won't work, you'll do more damage withholding the truth than you will by letting it all come out.

Some simple truths,

You worked with her.

You talked and shared things with her.

You texted with her.

You IM'd with her.

You cared enough about her to warn her.

You were compelled to carry on inappropriate conversations with her despite know full well and good the risk to your marriage.

You liked that someone was giving you attention.

You have a high need for admiration and were drawn to the OW because she began meeting this need for you.

You were keeping secrets.

You were lying to your wife.

You were deceptive with your wife in regards to the nature of your relationship with the OW.

These are just a few simple truths I can gleen from your posts thus far............

Basically, you knew and cared about this OW enough to protect her rather than protect your wife.....

These were all choices YOU made!

There is a great bible verse that explains what you did, very concise and to the point.

"When tempted, no one should say, �God is tempting me.� For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." James 1:13-15

Ditto!

Oh?

YOU


YOU

YOU

YOU

Why is it that I get the distinct feeling that you are only posting on here to appease your wife and as a way to gaslight and as an attempt to show her you are remorseful? Because everything you write seams that is empty words that you know your BS wants to hear and yet no substance or real commitment to honesty or details as to the true extent of your involvement with your bit on the side??

Everyone can give you as many 2x4 as you can take but this won't help your BS only your true honesty will.

MelodyLane posted the answer: Because you have no boundaries and don't care how badly you hurt your wife.

Which is exactly the answer.

Though I will add: Because, like every cheater, you wanted to have it both ways. You wanted to have both a married life and a single life.

*Because you got away with this once before and got to keep your wife, so you got the idea that you could get away with it again.*

Because the consequences weren't bad enough to teach you anything the first time.

So: Pick one. Married or single. You cannot have it both ways without tremendous damage to your wife, your family and, eventually, to yourself.

As I type this, a U.S. Congressman who also thought he could have it both ways is being forced to announce his resignation from office, to his own and his family's extreme worldwide embarrassment. He may well lose his beautiful, accomplished and pregnant wife, too.

Don't let it come to that for you.

If you want to date other women, then do your family a favor and go get a divorce and live like a single guy. Give your ex-wife and children a chance to find a man who does care enough for them to be there full time, since you do not.

If you want to be a husband and a father to the wife and children who love you and need you, then implement the MB program 100% and reap the rewards from that.

But you can't do both. Nobody can - not for long, and not without terrible and lifelong damage to everyone involved. Including you.

I thought the EXACT same thing!!!!

I am certain that that feeling can be reversed if he does everything that has been suggested on this thread.

And I am certain that if he wants to prove himself, he will.



Still with us, Chris?

Well, Chris? Still waiting to see you perform number one.

Hello Chris,

I don't post often on MB but I just want to point out a few things to you. You remind me very much of my own WH who appeared on this board sounding just like you...and that is not a compliment. After pity parties, more lies and garbage...we are now getting divorced. That will be you if you can not get a grip and do the most BASIC thing of telling the full truth of what went on between you and OW.

Your wife is not stupid. Do not treat her like she is because I can assure you all you will do is piss her off even more. And acting like a drama queen will also tick her off so knock it off and suck it up.

If you can't be honest NOW and come clean, save your time and everyone else's. Your time will be better spent looking for a divorce lawyer in the yellow pages. Your choice.

I don't want to hurt my wife anymore. I want to answer some of these posts but every replied I make isn't the way I was suppose to reply or I made it about myself. I feel stuck because I'm going to continue to say the wrong things. I will try again with some of the posts and if the vibe/message isn't right let me know constructively, I'm trying.

Chris, tell us about your wife.
How's she reacting?
What's she feeling?
What's she telling you

Dude, don't worry about saying stuff wrong here. No one here's getting paid for posting to you. Most of us have actual lives. We just want to see marriages healed & made better.

It's not that we like you -- it's just that we have suffered, or in some cases like me, caused, the same pain she feels; and we don't want that to continue.

So tell us about your wife.

I need to protect my wife from this ever happing again. Please don't get mad at me if I'm about to say the wrong thing. There has to be something wrong with me to have had this happen again. I know that I struggle with depression almost daily. For me to fix or try to fix the damage that I've done to my wife, I need to figure out what is wrong with me. How can I do these things when I'm struggling with my own demons. I know that I made this about me again, but how do you work on something external when internally isn't fixed.

Thank you for your post.

She is very upset as you can imagine.
She is angry at me as well as hurt and humiliated by my actions.
She really wants for me to answer more of the posts but I feel like I'm making things worse.

My wife is a very caring and loving mother/wife. She's a hard worker and takes care of herself. She's beautiful. She's shy, which makes her a little bit of an introvert.

I know that you are probably scratching your head now on why I did something so cruel. The thing is is that I didn't see it that way till confronted. I know theres something deep down thats broken with me and it needs to be addressed before I can ever dream of make a healthy strong relations ship with my wife or anyone else. I put a barrier in front of the people that mean the most to me. The people that I love the most I push away. I don't know why I do this. I don't know how to give answers to things I don't understand.

I know a good step is reading "How To Survive An Affair"

Thank you for your post

Do you see what is wrong with this sentence?

MelodyLane already answered your question about why you did this. Adultery is not a disease. It is a CHOICE you make.


You MUST have Extraordinary Precautions in place.
You MUST be transparent with your betrayed wife.
And you MUST commit to building a romantic relationship with her.

The "I'm damaged" bit isn't going to get you where you need to go. It's a form of excuse-making. ("I'm damaged, so I'm not capable of making good choices.")

Bull. You're plenty capable.

I'd like you to READ "Surviving An Affair" (get the title right) and tell us what you learn as you go through it.

Chris I'm sure you are a smart guy and I'm sure you want to fix all of this. I have no doubts about that. You obviously don't want to have a marriage that is falling apart, but you need to begin repairing things with specific actions, one at a time, and move forward.

What most of the posters are trying to help you understand is that your wife has just suffered a devistating betrayal from you, akin to a serious car accident. She needed care flight and has just entered the emergency room requiring life saving care. You are the only person available to offer the care she requires while in triage, yet you are busy thinking you need to fix something about yourself in order to give this life sustaining care to the emergency room patient. Do you think that is how Doctors and Nurses handle emergencies? Neither do I.....

So please turn you attentions to the patient (your wife) and begin administering live saving care to her, OK! This is what most of the posters are trying to explain to you when they say, "don't make this about you".....

You'll have time for some independent, self reflection when the main part of this crisis has past. Until then, lets get to work on the real victims in all of this, and that would be your wife and your marriage. Can you do this?

Have you even sent a NC letter to the OW?
Have you told your BS everything?

Stop with the gas lighting bull. Depression or not you are capable of the above two tasks.

The OW is responsible too so stop protecting her and let your BS do what she needs to do in order to put this vile human back in her box.

The only thing wrong with you that I can see is that you use your possible depression to skirt around things and manipulate the situation.

My deepest sympathy is witan your BS.

Chris, what is broken here is your wife and your marriage and your boundaries. That is all that is wrong. And until you make a decision to fix your boundaries, you will continue to break your wife. It doesn't get any "deeper" than that.

Now, if you are serious about making this right, you will stop with the self pity and start getting honest with your wife. Tell her the truth. Lay out the story honestly and completely. That is the first step in making this right.

If you want to save your marriage, you need to knock it off, Chris, and get serious. We are on your side and want you to make it, but you aren't going to make it if you can't get honest. You haven't even taken the first step and told the truth about your affair. Rather, you are on here talking about yourself.

Do you really want to save this? If you are serious, how about getting honest.

You



You


You


You


You



You

I can help .....


You are selfish and self focused.
You are also lazy.
You are dishonest.
You prefer a quick fix.


OK. That's settled.
Now you know what is "wrong" with you.

SO WHAT?????

Is your life better?
Does your beautiful, shy, introverted wife feel better now that you have been properly labeled?

There is marriage work to do, and yet, you are selfishly determined to continue your self-absorbed navel gazing while your wife dies a death of a thousand cuts. The razor is in your hand.

Stop being selfish and lazy.

Now, your "What's wrong with me" .... whining is OVER & OUT.

RIGHT?

Chris: make sure you tell your wife the truth about the content of the messages before the spy stick arrives. If she finds out that you have lied about the nature of the texts, I don't think she will work on the marriage.

When was the last time you spoke to another woman privately, by phone, text or in person? Have you spoken to a woman since you first posted here?

Brilliant!

Look - if you think that going to "therapy" to discover if you have some sort of "pathology" will help your wife .... you are proving just how selfish you really are.

Here is what you should be asking this forum:

"What can I do to help my wife and my marriage?"

This is where you are currently going .....

You are not a victim.
Quit whining.

You made how many more posts and you still haven't told us the name your wife posts under?

Come back when you are serious, Chris.

My wife posts under the name SusieQ

I was watching Anthony Weiner's resignation press conference this morning. It reminded me of this thread. Why? Because he said he is resigning because HE needs to heal from what HE has done. No mention of his dear wife in his speech. This thread, chris, no mention of a truly repentant heart and an understanding of what you have done again to your dear wife. Nope, this is all about chris.

Thank you, Chris.

Now, get cracking.

I suggest that since answering our questions seems so difficult for you, you start with this:

1. (ONE) Read through this entire thread again. Make two lists. One is a list of everything you've been told to do. The other is a list of every question you've been asked. Post the lists. Post before even trying to answer the questions.

Manipulation tactic telling us how we should feel about you in order to ease the shame you feel by your actions. Actually Chris we aren't scratching our heads. We know waywards are liars and they inflict unbelievable pain onto their betrayed spouse.


I always knew I was a liar, cheat, and manipulator. I learned how to lie and manipulate as a small child. It was the easiest and quickest way to get what I wanted, and I always avoided accountability for my actions by my dishonest ways. I am just pizzed now because it has finally caught up to me and I cannot get away with my crimes anymore.


Manipulation, lying, and cheating have gotten me everything I wanted in life. I was able to control all situations because I became a master manipulator. I have a wall of dishonesty around me, and I don't even know what lie to start with there are too many and I am overwhelmed. I am too scared to let those close to me know the real me because they will know I have always used lying to deceive them. How in the hect am I going to manipulate this board and my wife out of this mess because my wife and this board are actaully holding me accountable.

You know, Chris, I'd be angry, too, if were your wife and saw this thread and all the things you've been asked to do, and you weren't doing them.

So I hope you are making a comprehensive list and that you are going to go as far as possible on all of those tasks today.


No, we are not scratching our heads. We know why you are that cruel. It's already been posted in this thread. Apparently you are the only one who thinks it's a mystery.

Don't reply; I hope you are working on that list.

Chris,

I pray that you will listen to me.

I would suspect that your wife is watching how you handle yourself here. As a woman I can tell you that your behavior on this forum is NOT ATTRACTIVE at all. It is VERY UNMANLY. If I were your wife what you are doing would REPEL and DISGUST me. MAN UP -- FIX THIS!

HOW? Stop whining and sniveling. Knock off the "something is wrooooong with me" boo frickity hoo nonsense...BLECH!

Step up to the plate -- OWN what you have chosen to do. Say, "I did this because I did not put extraordinary precautions in place to prevent a woman besides my wife from meeting my needs. Now, I will put ironclad EPs in place and because of those EPs this will not happen again. EPs are the only things that will protect my wife and family. Human willpower is WEAK and will do NOTHING to protect us."

That's all there is to it, Chris. REALLY!

AND stay here and have DIALOGUE with people -- Talking to you here is like trying to nail jello to a tree -- Pretty soon people will stop posting and trying to help you if this continues. Face this head on, Chris. It's the ONLY way.

Mrs. W

Amen to MrsW. And I would add that the first thing that has to happen is that you come clean. Stop the lying and come clean. honesty is the solution.

If you are sincere, then show it by being HONEST. Don't make her have to FIND everything on her own. Be a man and just get it all out on your own.

The longer you wait, the more DAMAGE you cause. I would set her down and FESS up before her spy stick arrives.

Hello Chris,

I am glad you made it to the forums. It is probably not what you expected. But you will receive the help you need if you are willing to listen and do.

Your wife and I arrived on MB the same year--2007. She has fought for your marriage for a very long time. I would love to see you man-up on this thread and start fighting for this marriage now.

You tell us what a wonderful woman she is. (I already know that)

You tell us she doesn't deserve this. (We all already know that)

But what you refuse to tell us is that you will DO what it takes to make it right to your wife.

You cannot undo all the hurt you have caused her. But you can, right now, this very minute, no longer be THAT guy. You can start being the husband she deserves.

You become THAT man by:

1. Coming completely clean and telling her every last little thing there is to tell her about the secret life you have led throughout your marriage. I promise you, there is nothing she longs for now more than your honesty.

That would be step one to becoming a man of integrity--a man worth being married to.

2. Schedule and take a polygraph to prove to her that you were completely honest in step 1 and that there are no more dark secrets that are going to sneak up and bomb her again.

3. Put into place the extraordinary precautions that you chose to reject when you misled your wife into thinking you were protecting her. Start with--never communicating with a female in any other way than the necessary professional manner needed for work. There should be many other EPs you willingly and eagerly put into place if your heart's desire is to never hurt your wife again. It isn't about what you figure out. It's about what you do!

4. Ask her what else she would need to be willing to consider staying married. Then DO whatever it is she says she needs.

I spoke to my wife about the content of the messages, the spy stick should be here today or tomorrow.

This is the second time this has happened, the other was >3 years ago.

Yes, I spoke with a women yesterday that I work with. It was strictly about work and my future at my job. I called the office to speak with my boss and he was unavailable. The next person in charge took the call and could tell there was something wrong with me. She felt that it was all of the over time we've been doing and tried to explain to me that it's not just me feeling the pressure. I let her know that there was something else happening that I could give the details to.

Chris,

When my husband (HerPapaBear) was having an affair, he used the same lines we see you using here.

I need to fix myself.
I need to get some help for me.
I need to figure out what's wrong with me.
I need to figure out why I've done this.

I heard that kind of babble for months. Why?

Because he didn't want to do what needed done--give up his independent behavior and start living a life that would protect me and our marriage.

However....

when I kicked him out and he lived without his wife and children, he came to a new conclusion.

He no longer need to "fix himself" or "find himself".

He needed to start behaving like a married man and father so that he could EARN the PRIVILEGE of being my husband.

He could have chosen differently. He could have chosen to pursue the rabbit hole of "fixing himself". He could have spent the last 4 years in counseling revisiting his bad childhood memories (he has plenty).

What would that have accomplished?

Simply put, a divorce.

Because he would have left our marriage and my heart profusely bleeding on the cold floor while he became "enlightened".

Instead he chose to say, "I will BE a husband to my wife. I WILL love her and protect her."

So while you spent the last four years continuing on in your independent behavior and hurting your wife repeatedly (this is not the only time you have engaged in personal "friendly" conversations with females at the expense of your wife), my husband spent these four years PROVING that he is trustworthy and dependable and committed to being a man worth being married to.

How much longer are you expecting your wife to wait before YOU show up in this marriage?

Chris, there is an interesting side-effect about living a dishonest life. It eats at your soul. It claims that part of you that would normally be at peace and replaces it with sadness, worry and depression. My H felt the same way during his affair.

You may have had bad things happen to you in your childhood. Maybe you got picked on in high school. Maybe your clothes weren't as nice as the other kids', or you weren't as popular.

That was then. This is NOW. What are you going to do NOW, Chris? What is you choice for today?

There's another interesting thing - choosing to be completely open and honest about your life is liberating. It is refreshing. Choosing to protect your marriage is exhilarating. And it will cast you in a light that others will respect. Everybody wins, Chris. Most importantly, your marriage.

All that NEEDED said was that you would call back when your BOSS was available.

The moment she could "tell there was something wrong with" you, the conversation took on a personal nature and should have stopped there.

THAT is how you protect your marriage from other women!

Counseling won't help you figure out HOW to do that. Marriage Builders WILL!

But have you told her EVERYTHING there is to know about the secret life you have led throughout your marriage. Does she know the extent of your relationships with other women?

She's a sweetie.

well done for finally trying to be proactive in resolving the issues you have inflicted on your marriage. However you need to stop trying and start DOING.

Has anyone considered that maybe I'm looking to fill a need that isn't met. Maybe this is part of the reason on why I started to wander twice. I understand that my wife has needs as well. But I'm really trying to understand how I did this again. I know that part of it is because of my poor boundaries, selfishness & being self-centered. I need help fixing these things. A lot of the posts are extremely insightful and I really appreciate them. I do have a problem when I'm in a uncomfortable place, my wife has pointed that out to me and I recognize it now. I need to open up and stop being so scared.
I need to learn how to put my wife first. I know the answer is so simple for most people but for some (me) it isn't. I didn't realize how screwed up my prospective was till I stated posting here.

I'm about to commit a MB no-no.
Better go take a breakie.

Chris in my opinion you need to clear up the rubble before you can rebuild your marriage.

*Right now the rubble is that there is still contact with OW and no NC letter has been done.

*you havent given your BS the full details of the contact because you deleted it and have not said anything about retreiving all the information you deleted.

*There is no mention of exposure done on your post, there is attemted exposure to your workplace but no actual exposure.

Once you complete the above then maybe you can start talking about why you did it and EN's and your depression etc.

Wow! You are making excuses for your behaviors. There are people who do not have their needs met and they do not wander. Sure it could be part of the problem but it is no excuse. Yo uare 100% responsible for what you did. I'm sure you are not meeting your wife's needs nor making her happy by any means. Has she wandered? You definitely did not fill her need for openess and honesty.

The reason you were unfaithful was because you have poor boundaries and no EP's in place. You were not open and honest with your wife. You are the only one to blame for your infidelity, don't you dare for one second blame it on her not meeting a need.

The answer is all the same for everyone. You can choose to change who you are now and your future. It's not easy for anyone but people choose to take action and work through things. It sounds like you are just making excuses instead of fixing things and making things right.

You just keep making this about you, if you keep that up you will most definitely lose your wife and your family.

Chris, what the heck is this?

You've been told what to do, stop yakking, and do it.


No you don't. If you did, you'd be jumping to follow the advice given.

Come back when you are serious, Chris.


That is because you are talking and not listening. The specific things you've been told to do are quite simple. For example, it took about five tries for me to get you to just tell us your wife's posting name. If you put up that much of a fight on something so simple, it's hard to believe that you will get around to doing the really important stuff.

Do you think we are ignorant of MB? We all KNOW all about meeting needs and how to have a romantic marriage.

Let me explain something to you that I doubt you are aware of.

Dr. H says that EPs are the cornerstone to affair-proofing your marriage because there WILL be times in marriage when a spouse is unable to meet needs. (illness, injury, etc)

Do you think you have a right to have an affair if your wife has cancer and can't meet your needs?

Marriage is MORE THAN meeting needs.

It is PROTECTING THE relationship so that NO ONE else can deposit love units.

You have refused to close your love bank to other women. That is WHY you have wandered SEVERAL times.





You did this again because you weren't living out EPs.

Why did you not have EPs in place?

Because it feels good to have your admiration need met by lotsa people.

Please answer this question.

Chris,

Pep is really good at hitting the nail on the head ... so is your wife. I can guarantee you that this is exactly what is going on in her head.

Look at the title of your thread "Please let us get through this" . Doesn't really reflect any work required on your part.

Keep in mind that your W has been here for quite a while and whatever we say, she is already thinking in her own head. If it doesn't fly here, it won't fly with her.

Listen to the great advice that you have gotten here and do what you need. That is how you will get through this without a D.

Here is a start to the "Protection Plan". Please critique.

Emotional Needs Protection plan

-Admiration -When I feel that this is being meet by another women s t say thank you and move on.

-Recreation -Don't have conversations with other women about o outdoor activities.

-Sexuality -Don't stare or think of another women in a sexual way.

-Conversation -Don't have conversations with another women, this may lead t to them wanting to meet my needs.


This is a start. I know there needs to be more added.

How do I do a NC letter?

The information will be attained through the spy stick.

This situation has been exposed to my boss.

It's in your thread. If you were actually rereading your thread and making a todo list, you'd see it. If you were actually reading the book Surviving an Affair (I'm sure your wife has a copy), you'd see it there, too.

Don't be so lazy that we have to spoon feed you, or your marriage will never make it.


That's a real copout. Tell her ahead of time.

Get serious, sir.

I do not have advice on the NC letter.

However, make sure you tell her everything and do not miss anything. If she finds something you forgot to tell her when she sees the messages, it would make thinsg worse. Come clean if you have not.

Didn't you have a physical affair as well?

I think you're shooting wild, here. You're throwing out things and hoping they'll stick. Formulate a real plan. You're setting yourself up for failure with this. There is no logical way you're going to get through life without ever having a conversation with a woman. And really, do you think 'thanking' a woman for admiring you and then 'moving on' is feasible or even acceptable? Really? This plan will flop tomorrow just on that basis. You need a solid, iron-clad plan, Chris.

Try starting with this:
1. Discuss your needs and Susie's with Susie. Go through the ENQ. Really tackle it.
2. Practice conversing with women with Susie. Discuss how you will handle various scenarios involving speaking with women out of her presence. Discuss how you will handle the texts you have to receive for work. What if you get a text that Susie would consider inappropriate in the course of your job? How will you handle that?

Scenarios to consider:
1. A group of you are standing at the water cooler, talking about the football game. A woman joins the group and makes a remark about how good-looking football players' butts are. What would you do?
2. Your text sounds. It's a co-worker and she says "I'm covering Joe's shift for him. Want to get a coffee afterward?" How do you respond?

Work with Susie to come up with other scenarios and practice them. This really helped my H. He had to learn how to converse with women as a married man. He never realized how 'out there' and flirtatious he was until we began working together on this. He never developed the tools that would help him set firm boundaries. You are in the same situation. You need to work to develop these tools.

On my end - we established that my H had a need for attention, conversation and admiration. I made it my goal to meet those needs. By calling or texting him frequently, reminding him how 'hot' I think he is congratulating him on running a great meeting at his job, etc. You will have to honestly share with Susie what needs you have that are important to you so that she can meet them. Don't make her guess.

And that's just for starters. And I'm not yelling at you. I'm not even typing hard.

Have you ever considered that is a load of bullcrap that won't fly here? If you have a "need" to be a cheater and hurt your wife and your kids for your own selfish purposes then you don't deserve a wife and kids because you are DANGEROUS.

You cheated because you have no boundaries, period. All the need meetin in the world will not overcome shabby boundaries. You are dangerous to your wife as long as you believe this.

If you are serious then don't wait for the spy stick. Just tell her now. Show her you are serious by being honest NOW? Why make her wait?

This is getting off track here! The TRUTH needs to come out FIRST. The TRUTH. She does not have the full truth.

That's right folks. Let's not get him sidetracked.

There is much he has not yet told.

Chris, please answer the above question that I have already asked two other times TODAY.

Then schedule the poly to PROVE to your wife that you are being completely honest about your secret separate life.

Nothing else matters until she has the truth.

If my husband would have told me he wanted to talk about our ENs and fill out the questionnaire at THIS stage, I think I would have spit in his face.

Thank you so much for your input and time. This is a great place to start and tools for my wife and I to work on. I do have a strong need for admiration and attention. I'm also a people pleaser. All the ingredients for a disaster if not in check. I will, with my wife work on making my protection plan more feasible.
I'll also be on Dr. Harley's radio show live this Wednesday for a 20 minute segment. It should be on air around noon central time.

Chris, you are now on day 3 and she still only knows nothing more than what she found. The longer you make her wait to get the full truth the less sincere you look. Making her wait only prolongs her misery. She has a right to know the truth, Chris. It is cruel and manipulative to not tell her.

ITA. I apologize, Chris - I've pulled you off the most important step right now by trying to help with your list. Keep my post on the back burner until you have given Susie every detail. She needs that before you can continue.

You are the only one right now that has work to do.

Your wife has been working for the last 4 years on this marriage while you were out letting other women stroke your ego.

Please do not expect your wife to be enthusiastic about filling your needs right now.

You have some serious work to do before that thought won't make her puke.

Now...
answer my question.

None of that matters until she has the full truth. Working on a protection plan doesn't mean anything until she has the full truth. That is the FIRST STEP and until you do that she should not take anything you say seriously.

Chris,

Telling your wife the whole truth may or may not save your marriage...

NOT TELLING HER THE WHOLE TRUTH will definitely END your marriage!

Tell her the WHOLE truth NOW...TODAY...RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE!

Your tactic of whining about how broken you are in an effort to elicit sympathy from your wife and us so that you don't have to actually DO anything is NOT working! It makes you look like a big ol' WUSS! No woman wants to be married to a WUSS!

We'll know you're serious when you start telling your wife the truth, Chris.

Chris, she will find out the truth eventually whether you tell her or not. That is the way women are built. We strive to "understand" the how/why etc. etc.

If she doesn't hear it from you, how can she feel comfortable with any sort of protection plan? She doesn't know the extent in which she need protection!

Tell her now. All of it. Everything. Answer every question she has honestly and do not hedge or sugar coat. Straight up truth is what people can work with. Hiding and lies do nothing.

I�m scared.......................I don�t know how to begin. Well here it goes, the information thats been missing the information that I�ve been hiding........ The O/W and I kissed. We did not have a sexual affair. We never saw each other out side of work, we never had plans to see each other out side of work. I don�t have an excuse, in fact it was most of my doing. I�ve known the O/W over the last 2.5 years. It started off with being flirty with each other over the last couple of weeks. Thats when the texting started, the texting had a flirty undertone with things like �can�t wait to see you� what are doing� and �miss you� being said, this will be exposed in the next couple of days with the spy stick. Phone conversations where short and not as flirty and this will be exposed through the poly gram. I�m coming clean. The greatest problem that I had was running and you guys were able to pick that apart. Now where do I go, not sure if my wife will ever forgive me or if she should. I�ve had no contact with the O/W and management at my job knows of the situation. My wife knows who to call and I encourage her to do so.

This is only the coming clean part.

THUD. Oh.my.freaking.gosh. You just proved yourself to be a real *ss. I cannot believe you had the nerve to say this.

And what about your wife's unmet needs??? Did she have an affair? Better yet, did she have TWO?

Because as a woman, we have an intense need for a faithful spouse. And you have not been meeting that need for a long, long, LONG time. And she has not had an A that she is blaming on you.

I hope you see how asinine this comment is.

Chris the truth is that you did have a PA you has phisical contact with this skank. The sooner you realise that the better.

You gave away the chance for your lovely BS to meet your ENs the minute you let skanhoe meet them instead. Did you even bother telling your dear wife that you were struggling with having unmet ENs before you jumped into this A my guess is no.

Seriously Chris you need to grow up and realise there are two people in your marriage and you can't act like a spoilt brat the minute things aren't going your way.

OK, this is a good START.

Now lets get you to come clean about your previous affairs. I don't for a minute believe the stories about those either.

Let's lay it all out there NOW, OK!

Only then can your wife make an educated, logical decision about whether she wants to save this marriage.

She deserves to know the whole truth regardless, wouldn't you agree.

Chris, she is not your parent she is your partner. Treat her as such. If you have been around MB board like you said you have been in your original post, then you absolutely should have known that you don't "get flirty" and think all will be well. You know that and you did it anyway. Own it and do the work that you know you must do. You are doing everything BUT taking direct ownership of admission of YOUR actions directly and fully disclosing with your wife. Transparency remember?

Chris, thank you for that. I know that was not easy but it is a huge step in the right direction.

I am going to keep asking this d@mn question until you answer it.

You and me and all of MB know that you have more to confess, Chris.

Tell. Her. Everything. Right. Now.

Unanswered question.

Your marriage may be able to survive what you've done, but it can't survive you hiding stuff. Hiding stuff is not a marriage. It is not safe for SusieQ, either.

Your marriage cannot survive if you settle for anything less than this:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=3&sublink=105


What do you know about yourself that SusieQ does not know?

(Don't answer me; tell HER!)

Chris, can I tell you a secret? Once you come clean with your BS it is soooo much easier to have a real relationship with them. You don't have to wonder what lies you told and forgot. You don't have to worry about being caught off guard. You can be a man of integrity, Chris. SHOW Susie with ACTIONS what integrity is. Do you know the saying "the truth will set you free"? Well it is true, Chris. The truth does set you free.

There is nothing else.

Chris, I am 100% certain that if you talk to anyone who's had an A they will admit that it was NEVER in their best interest to trickle-out the truth. It ALWAYS comes back to bite them in the *ss.

Withholding any part of the truth only increases the damage because it WILL all come out. And then your W is going to be even MORE upset that you continued to lie.

If you believe nothing else, believe that.

I so hope this is the truth, Chris.

I very much want your marriage to recover.

So if you have told her all there is to tell about all the OWs in your life, then it is time for you to schedule the poly. I assure you, your wife will be inquring about more than just the current OW on the poly. She will need proof about all the women in your past because this episode will have caused her to doubt everything about her life again.

The poly is the PROOF to her that there are no hidden secrets still lurking.

You want to give her that proof, don't you?

When did you tell your BS about the Kiss Chris?? just now?

The stick and the polygraph Chris will tell your wife EVERYTHING she needs to know.

You have but maybe one chance here to set the record straight before this. DO YOU REALLY want Susie to find out what REALLY WENT ON with this skank during the poly or when she reads some of the emails?

If there was an email saying "Miss you" or "when can I see you again" I am pretty DAMN sure it is a PA goin' on. You don't text stuff like that (unless you're A. Weiner)if you're not INVOLVED EMOTIONALLY with that woman. I seriously think this is a PA.

I also think you're NOT COMING CLEAN. Just my hunch.

I went thru this. I took all I could take from a serial cheater xwh. He NEVER COULD ever tell me the straight of anything that really happened. I myself, only got the truth from the PI's I had investigate him and the lawyer I'd hired when I had enough.

DO YOU WANT HER to have to do that or go down that road? Come clean now, and tell EVERY BIT if you want to save the M. You have alot on the line. Your past being a serial cheater speaks volumes and your sweet wife has worked her butt off here trying to HELP YOUR MARRIAGE while you did NOT A DAMN THING.

If you want to give it your best shot at her sticking around and staying with you, then YOU MUST TELL EVERYTHING.

Like I told my xwh, "when there's smoke there IS fire. I WILL FIND OUT and you either tell me now or your lawyer can tell my lawyer."

Which Chris will it be? The ABSOLUTE TRUTH or a series of more lies that will make your wife die a little more inside each time there's a "new revelation" or you tell her "something you kinda forgot about". Let me tell you this. Each time she finds out something NEW that you did to betray her, it's the emotional equivalent of another d day and you surely know how painful THOSE were to her right?

Be a damn man about it for once. FESS UP NOW while you have a chance to, before she shuts you out and down for good.

If that is the case I'd be amazed. My WH said the same thing...and then guess what...there's was always more. **sigh**

The affairs themselves hurt, Chris...that is a given but the worst thing a WS can do is trickle truth their BS thinking they are sparing their feelings or something. All you will end up doing is making things worse and she will never believe a word you say even when you are telling the truth because by then she either won't care or figure you are a pathological liar.

Please think about how your behavior affects her instead of you. It is a truly awful feeling for a BS to know that her WS is STILL willing to cover his butt at the expense of her emotional and mental well being. She deserves the truth regardless of the consequences to you.

I hope you will take to heart all the things the MB posters have been trying to get through to you.

Ditto that Black Raven. I lived that nightmare too. Never the truth and I had to PAY TO GET THE TRUTH. It cut like 10,000 razorblades. Worse than trickle truth, as my xwh LIED and said always that "there's nothing more to tell".

Trust me, there WAS ALWAYS more to tell.

Chris, you did a good job telling her the truth about this affair. I know how hard that must have been for you. For your sake and hers, I hope it is the entire truth and not glossed over. It takes alot of guts to admit when you are wrong.

I want to give you some advice and I IMPLORE you to carefully consider it. I really do care very much about you and Susie and I so hope you take this advice because I think it is your saving grace.

Spill your guts. Get it all out NOW so you can move forward.

Doing this is the first step in transforming your marriage into the kind of romantic relationship you crave. I suspect you have withheld alot of things over the years and that has had the effect of preventing true intimacy in your marriage. Unspoken issues lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Holding stuff back harms Susie, kills your soul and prevents you from having a romantic relationship, the kind of marriage you want. You might be telling yourself that you are "sparing her" but you are not. You are hurting her. She has sensed for years she wasn't getting the full story. CArrying lies, if there are lies, is a huge burden to you, too, that keeps you cut off from her emotionally.

While that may HURT HER TODAY, I promise you it will give her a sense of relief and trust she has not had in years. It will remove that unspoken WEDGE that has been there for years.

She is already upset today. Why not get it all out there NOW, get it over with, and move forward and create the kind of romantic marriage than can only happen with honesty. Show her who you really are. Be yourself. Let her love you for who you are.

Wiser words cannot be spoken. Chris, do this for her, not TO her. FOR her.

Okay. The truth is starting to come out. When is your last day at that job?

Chris, where'd you go?

Yesterday, I posted this:

What's your answer?

You DO want to give her some peace of mind that you have come completely clean, right?

NOW is the time to do it. So she can put to rest her concerns about whether she has all the info about OW in your life. Get the poly scheduled now. Every moment you sit idle, the closer she moves to being utterly DONE with you.

We're waiting. And the crickets have begun to chirp.

Can you come CLEAN. Really clean? We know there is more. When there's 2.5 years of sexual tension b/w you and posow, THERE CAN'T ONLY BE A KISS. We know that.

Like Sexymamabear asked you, WHAT'S YOUR ANSWER?

Peachy, he's likely telling his wife what EVERY wayward says, "It's just to painful to be on the MB Forum".


Chris, I promise it can get better.

Be Honest.
Polygraph.
Repent.
Work MB.

<------ Chris after those four items are completed.

Maybe this has been posted before...but you should read:
The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage

They include the following:

The Rule of Care | The Rule of Protection | The Rule of Honesty
The Rule of Time

They are all important concepts/rules.

I hope you are still reading MB evening if you don't feel like posting right now.

Chris????

Darn it, Chris. And I had hope for you. I actually took you seriously.

Chris,

Once we've been found out, it's my opinion that we waywards begin to vacillate between several stages.


The first stages consist of shock/fear/bargaining/and often more betrayal. It's the "I can't believe I've been found out" stage. There is usually a display of personal sorrow coupled with begging and bargaining. This is the stage where we cry to our spouse, saying things like, "I'm sorry", "I didn't mean to hurt you", "PLEASE let me stay", and it's often followed by statements like, "I know I just need some individual counseling and things will be better". Lot's of chaos occurs in this stage and is the time when a wayward often makes their infamous "ILUBINILWY Speech". A wayward then may linger in throws of this stage for a long time (sometimes for years) or jump right to the next within a blink of the eye.

I call this next one the miry clay, you know, when you have boots on, step in deep mud and then you try to walk, the boot stays behind.

The next stage is anger/anxiety/rage/depression. This is when our spouse is usually injured by our horrible words and continuous lies. This is also when we waywards typically break N/C. We make it all about ourseves, internalizing everything, instead of owning our consequence, recognizing the external damages, and thus seeing our spouse as the true victim. We vigorously put up all our walls and defend "our half truths". In this stage we think if we do not put on a good show for friends and extended family, we are afraid we will look like a fool. What we fail to realize is we already look like one, we've just been to blind to see.

The anger and the rage can be devastating to the BS during this time and can lead to tramatic stress that they may never fully recover from. The sad part is the anxiety and anger are usually just a front to help a wayward maintain their independent behavior and/or continue in their lies. It's still ALL about us and we refuse to let go. The costs of remaining in this stage run deep, and it's always at the BS's expense.

The last stages are where we must mentally choose between complete and unconditional surrender or whether we keep fighting for a chance to somehow win. We either accept that we don't want to change and remain the wayward indefinitely, or we cease fighting eveything and everyone and accept complete surrender to God. We begin to display Godly sorrow, and it's apparent to everyone that a Godly change has occured. Within this stage we have the opportunity discover one of the great paradox's of life; To completely surrender IS to win.

Hi Chris,

I'll assume you're still reading, your silence leads me to believe you've chosen to follow a path that I once followed.

My path went like this;

My affair was discovered.

I lied about the extent of my affair.

I told my extended family just enough information necessary to cause them to feel sorry for me.... (Half truths)

Wife discovered more trickle truths from me.

I moved in with my dad and step mom. (Actually wife asked me to leave)

They felt bad for me when my wife told our children about my adultery the next day. I loved that they felt sorry for me.

I reneged on No Contact

Then I reneged on marriage counseling. I told her I had too many issues I needed to work on first. (Like my having been beaten and abused as a child and my having also been abandoned as a child issues)


I told my family and friends that MB was just a pityful bunch of cultish people following Dr. Harley. They were gullible enough to beleive me yet again.


I didn't work with the other woman like you so leaving my job was not necessary. But at this point I'm sure you're trying to do what I would have done.... Found a way to stay in my my job even though OW still works there. Just a guess??


I continued the lies and the con game, got my sisters, friends, and extended family to beleive my wife and her crowd were just bitter people....


I lied, lied and lied again and again. Refused a polygraph and even said I had too much dignity for that.


I destroyed my wife and my family. I lied to my friends and family and as a result of these half-truths, they even helped me put the finishing touches on running over my wife and children with a Mack truck.


Chris, it got much worse after that, I didn't know how it all spiraled down hill so fast. You see, I thought I could control the amount of damage I was creating,,,,

I was wrong!

I was nearly dead wrong!

I would not have survived if I had continued down this path!

God wrestled with me and led me to a sweet surrender....

As a result of this surrender;

I won!
My wife won!
Our children won!

And

My wife and I are again, one!

I could be wrong about you being on the same path I was once on. Maybe, maybe not. But I'm sure you can at least relate to some of my story.

I'll be around if you want to chat.
Be Well!

Chris,


If you'd like to chat more privately, off forum,

You can click the notify button on the bottom of the message box and send a note to the moderators with your email and they will forward it to me.

I always like to see people stay on the forums, but sometimes this option does help in the begining.

Did you do this? Wednesday's show seems to be about someone else.

Yes, I know I am not supposed to post on my WS's thread but he is not coming back.

Just wanted to post an update for anyone who was interested.

I have been in Plan B. The PBL required poly, postnup & completely implementing MB and posting here on the forum for me to even consider working on the M. Then Dr Harley told me my H could be considered an addict, that he can't control himself around women and the only way to be safe in a M with him is to take away ALL opportunity for an A (change profession, no cell, no email, etc)

Knowing that (1) my H will never agree to these conditions and (2) I cannot fall back in love with my H knowing that he will never really protect me, I know in my heart this is heading for D but listening to my dear MB friends, I just take things day by day, try to find the peace of being in Plan B, no need to rush anything.

That is up until about two weeks ago. My H starts screwing me financially and also starts to ignore his children (only seeing them once in the last two weeks) During that one visitation, my children come home and tearfully tell me that he was texting the entire time and they both saw some of the messages which were affectionate and my daughter writes down the name which she gives to me.

Yes, it is OW4.

Get this, she is 27 (WH is 39) and she is newly MARRIED herself (October '09), her H filed for D earlier this year.

I break my Plan B by leaving him a scathing VM message, I call and expose this to his mother (I am in Plan B with his entire family) and also shoot off a message to the OW on FB. WH ignores me, his mother basically acts as if she doesn't know what to say and OW blocks me on FB.

To top it off, a few days ago, my son left the faucet on in our upstairs bathroom where we have a slow drain and we ran out the door. When we came back, there was water coming out of the recessed lighting on our first floor great room. There is water damage on three floors of our house and the ceiling and some of the walls, insulation, duct work has to be gutted and repaired.

The day of demolition, I tell WH DS is asking for him, could he help me out while there is all this work going on at the house and he ignores me. I drop my daughter off to a friend's house to stay for a few days, and then I drive by OW's house. Yup, WH is there. I think he lives there now. He could care less that we are going through a crisis and that his son needs him.

Yes, we all know waywards are selfish, foggy etc, but still, I am stupidly in disbelief.

Anyway, I have exposed this to him mother and sister and am now back in Plan B. Have retained a lawyer and will be filing for Plan D this week.

If you could send some prayers up for my kids, I would appreciate it. I know I will be OK but I worry for them. Not only do they have to deal with a divorce, but also losing their home (we will have to sell) and a very wayward father who is now blowing them off for his new OW. Thanks....

(((((SusieQ))))))

SusieQ - I read this thread often to remind myself why I am in plan B. Your WH and my WH are acting like the boys they are today.

It is so sad when a wayward gets to this point.

Stay Strong - I know Plan B for me is really helping me to move forward in my life. I have set backs and days still when I am sad. For the most part they are starting to be less frequent.

Tough~

We have NOT stopped praying for you, the kids, and even Chris.

Chris if you DO read this thread, and you may be lurking, please stop where you are. Stop this second, and read MY signature line.

My xwh destroyed himself and his relationship with his two kids (one with me and the other with the wistress ow he married who was pregnant during our separation). He never could learn how to be a man who had SELF CONTROL. He never did. He instead further absorbed himself in the painful, foggy selfishness that defines the wayward state.

My son refuses to EVER speak to his father again, and without my interfering in that at all. Last year he came to that conclusion on his own. In his little barely 12 years of wisdom.

If you have the ability to still pray, then get on your knees and pray. Turn your heart upwards to God and STOP THIS NOW.

Your window of any possibility of change is closing and closing rapidly. Your life will be forever changed and never ever for the good.

And I ask you to consider the wisdom of my divorce attorney who told me this, "Peachy, any woman who would actively date KNOWINGLY a married man and father, is somebody who I would have investigated." He also went on to say this, "And furthemore, any woman or man who DOES this type of behavior, knowingly breaking up a marriage being the other person, COULD NEVER EVER be truly trusted around the children from the previous marriage (marriage broken apart) because their needs will ALWAYS TRUMP that of any child."

I remember hearing him say that to me in a conference room. A little teeny one off to the side of the courtroom. I am saying this to you NOW as none of these horrible ow could ever be a decent stepmother to your children.

Want to know what ended up happening to my xwh? Chris he NEVER repented. He ended up cheating on his ow immediately after their baby was born 2 mos after our divorce. He ended up having more risky behaviors and got fired from his position as ceo of his own company. He ended up losing more money. But before he did, he had yet another affair on his wistress (the ow wife) and it was with a stripper. He paid for her house and all the furnishings in it. One month of paying for the stripper was MORE THAN DOUBLE what he ever paid for child support for his own son. He (formerly a good Christian man) got the stripper pregnant and MADE her abort the baby.

In the end, the house went into foreclosure he and his affair wife were in. He lost his job, all his money, and faced huge legal issues from the stripper and yet another affair, and his divorce was final in March from his affair wife and she too, like myself, has sole custody of their child.

Do you want to go down that path to hell? Do you? Do you love your kids enough to stop it now? CHRIS YOU ARE AN ADDICT. Do you hear me? YOU ARE AN ADDICT. I am a health professional telling YOU that YOU are an addict! Your behavior says it enough.

Your silence here tells me either you enjoy the self-adoration, the ADMIRATION the other skanky women pile on you, or else you've lost the ability to reason. Which is it Chris?

CAN YOU SEE THE DESTRUCTION THIS ADDICTION HAS CAUSED? I know I might be preaching to the rafters here, but I believe you still lurk because deep down YOU HATE WHAT YOU HAVE BECOME.

And if that is something you wish to exorcise from your life, that urge, that need for the fake adoration from the other women, then CALL DR. HARLEY and ASK FOR HELP. ASK FOR THE TOUGHEST HELP YOU CAN GET. ASK TO DO WHATEVER YOU CAN DO TO SAVE your wife, your kids, and YOURSELF from becoming another dad who lost it all after he abandoned his marriage AND HIS KIDS AND WIFE.

Do not be as my xwh will be on his deathbed, when he looks back and wonders "why"? Why did I do all of that to those who loved me?

Wow. I was just going to mention the vast amount of destruction Chris was signing on for, but...there's just too much.

SusieQ,

((SusieQ))

Ugh. Susie, I am so mad at your H! What a waste of a peaceful life!
Prayers going up for you, sis.

(((susieq)))

uggh

Hi SusieQ,
Just wanted to say so sorry to hear that you are going through all this. It is so disheartening to hear that your H has not learned anything from MB. But I am praying for you. Be strong and know that there are people out here pulling for you to succeed and live the life you deserve.

-Txnatheart

Thank you so much for the support and prayers. You all mean a lot to me. D is filed and I feel OK with it.

Oh, I feel so much better now that I have been back in Plan B for a few days...

All you Plan B'ers-------> STAY dark!!!!!!


(ps TX, how are you? You were going to go to Plan B but then you disappeared, how about an update??)

Susie - did you do Plan B in '07? Is this the first time you filed?

Has he IM'd anything since he was served?

This is my first time in PB and first time filed.

On dday #1 in '07, I did the woman scorned thing and booted him out and went to Plan FU. He begged me for another chance and I didn't know what to do until I found MB. I went to Plan A, had him come back and we worked on R (or so I thought).

No, now that he is with OW4 (I think he is living with her) he won't talk to me.

When I first went into Plan B, he sent my IM lots of regretful messages that she didn't pass on to me.

Literally about a week before he started dating OW4, I broke my Plan B and called him and he sounded so happy to hear from me....until I gave it to him.... (In my defense I found out something very offensive that he had done and I had just had a couple of drinks!)

Hi Susie,
I thought about posting an update, but I wasn't sure if I should go back to my original thread or start a new one.

I'll be honest though, I just about had a heart attack when I saw your sig line change a few months ago!

Are you feeling ok?

-Txnatheart

If I remember correctly, your last thread when you were encouraged to go to Plan B had enough of your background to get everyone up to speed, so I would use that one! Look forward to reading your update...happy to see you are in R!




I'll be honest...it has been hard to understand this. The first time he did this, it made sense, especially after I found this site, as we weren't meeting each other's needs, etc.

Not like this time, we had a romantic marriage and I thought we were happy. Each time we got together with our coupled friends, we were so playful and affectionate with each other compared to them. I would think "MB works!" and I felt proud(?) that I stuck it out with him. OK, I am getting upset now writing this but overall, I have accepted it...

I can see clearly now how bad his addiction to women is...with how he is now prioritzing this new OW over his children. I worry so much that he will push her on them and how that will affect them... His proposal from his lawyer today for the visitation agreement had language about not introducing the children during the D to romantic interests unless there is a feeling it will be a lasting relationship and that said person will be a positive influence in the children's lives.

WH can think again if he thinks I will go for that!

Seriously, overall, I am doing OK. Thanks for asking

That deserves to be in the stupidest things to come out of a wayward's pie hole thread.



positive influence ?

Oh, just ICK. Like you're going to go for that. He obviously missed the part where he is married to a woman who is smart.

Wow! I can't believe the nerve of him. Really?!?

You know, when I read Chris's posts, it was amazing. I think had my H ever posted here, he would have sounded exactly the same.

Has he seen the kids at all since the last visit? How are they handling everything?

I will post an update soon.

-Txnatheart

SusieQ

I follow your posts and advice that you share on this board and even in your time of hurt you still give excellent MB advice.

You have helped me more than you will ever know and I just wanted to say "Thank you" and I hope all is well for you and the kids.

SuzieQ,

If bumping this thread triggers you, i am deeply sorry.

I read through this entire thread because you posted the link to someone earlier today.

What a dreadful experience and i feel so sad for what you and your children were put through.

Did WXH ever get his act together to be any where near a proper parent?

Dang, his Fog was thick. What an unremorseful S.O.B.

I really felt the lawyer that spoke about the OP was so right on. Geez, my WW hasn't even seen our S-10 in over 9 months now, nor has she even spoken to the poor little young man.

Just last night he mentioned like it feels like over a year since he saw his mom. He doesn't want 1X per month or even 1X per week, but 2X per day is what he said.

I hope WXH gets what he deserves!!!

LTL

Hi LTL, I don't mind this thread being bumped. It doesn't trigger me and I think it can offer lurkers a lot to think about. Maybe mostly how quickly things can unravel when appropriate EPs are not adhered to, which I see often on these boards, folks continuing to engage in risky behavior.

Anyway, to answer your Q about WxH, he is now married to OW4, and since the relationship has cooled considerably, he does seem more focused on his kids when he is with them vs being so obsessed w/OW4.

OW4 is a "fighter" (Dr Harley's words, he said she is like Omarosa from Celebrity Apprentice). She has had MANY screaming brawls with ex in front of the kids (DD17 only goes to their place once every month or so and they are fighting almost every time she visits), she has fought with DD to the point of harassment and she has posted ugly things about me on FB and emailed me manifestos.

Dr Harley told me that she will be very disappointed in the relationship with WxH and she will want to take it out on me and to get out of the way so I closed my FB page and I just ignore her as much as possible.

So yes, I do think WxH got exactly what he deserves, I can only imagine living in an environment like that is HELL. I almost feel sorry for him (crazy, I know!)

Sorry to hear of your situation and thank you for checking in

That's unfortunate that DD-17 has to deal with that toxicity, but at least she is of the age to not be completely dependent on her dad and hopefully has a fulfilling life with the rest of her family, especially you, her Mom.

I also read Black Ravens link to her H's thread.

Dang, he "seemed" like he was getting on board, but i am finding that when a WS avoids answering certain posted questions, that it usually just a front put on for display.

Your WH was pretty much an azz right from the get go. No offense meant towards you, but just how he responded.

God Bless you for sticking around. You are very helpful to so many in need, along with so many other learned vets here.

LTL