About 2yrs ago, I came here as a wayward looking for help to stop my destructive behavior, however I wasn't ready and ended up lying and gaslighting everyone here and eventually leaving. You may remember me as "muted sparkle". It's been a while since I've been here, and as the new username suggests, I am not the person now that I was then.

To all of the seasoned veterans who tried to wake me up and pull me out of the fog, I am here to sincerely apologize to each and every one of you for the blatant lies that I told in an effort to win your approval. Not only did I waste your time and efforts, but I also publically demonstrated the very best example of what an insincere wayward looks like. Perhaps that is the only positive that has been gained from those posts.

Please let me update you on things because a lot has happened in the last 2yrs. Just before I stopped posting on MB, I was diagnosed with cervical cancer and was able to catch it early enough where surgery took care of everything. That was the least of my worries because my marriage was destroyed, I was drinking every night to escape my problems, and I was on a self paved road to hell. At this point, my husband and I were sleeping in separate bedrooms and we didn't speak to each other much. I had an epiphany one night in bed that if I didn't straighten myself out now, I was going end up losing everyone who was important to me in my life. I had a very long, hard conversation with God and promised Him that I would do whatever it took to bring everything into the light and live by His book. Spartan and I both agreed that our marriage was over. I filed for divorce 7/6/09, moved out into a place of my own on 8/8/09 and our divorced was granted on 3/29/10. I left him the house and furnishings and we share custody of the children 50/50. During that time, I sought Christian counsel, read all of the books that she suggested to me, went back and cleaned up and owned up to each and every lie that I could remember telling to the people (including my children) that I had used along my wayward path. It was the most difficult, humbling experience of my life, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I no longer have to look over my shoulder worrying about what kind of lie I had spun and if I was going to get caught. I lost my family, but earned trust back from my kids and friends. I haven't "arrived", but I am certainly a far cry from where I was 2yrs ago.

I am still living alone and my time is dedicated to my kids. When I don't have them, I keep to myself and stick to the basics.

I've had lots of time alone to wrestle and reconcile with what I did to destroy the man I married and what I put our kids through during the process. I'm overwhelmed with guilt, shame and sorrow. I was blinded by the fog and had to lose it all in order to heed the gravity of what I had done. I still maintain my commitment to God and will keep my promise to Him for as long as I roam this earth. As long as I follow Him, I cannot go wrong.

I cherish the relationships I have been able to repair with my children and treat every moment with them as a gift. When you have no one left to turn to, life becomes a very lonely place but that isn't necessarily a bad thing because sometimes it's only then when you turn to God and ask for help (as it was for me).

I am truly sorry to all of you. I wish that I had seen that your words weren't meant to hurt me, but were meant to wake me up and see what I was doing. I hope now, that I can be of help to other waywards as you were to me. I would like to thank you for every time you tried to reach out to me. I didn't deserve it then, but I want you to know that your efforts weren't for not.

Well, I'll be darned.

I am happy for your new path. I am also lifted in spirit that you are here with a message of new hope for those waywards who may need your words.

There is such a woman here, now, who is lost. Her name is Rocky. She is trying very hard to recover her marriage, but is so in grief over what she has done that she sabotages her own efforts. At times, she seems to vacillate toward the OM (I think) in her mind, because she is weak when she sees the pain her husband is in. She wants to run instead of work hard, because she sees what she has done and this is very hard for her to face every day.

Maybe you can help her.

SB

Thank you both, for recognizing my honest sincerity in owning up to what I did and my efforts to resurrect a proper life for myself and my boys.

SB, I will look for her and reach out to her.

180,

I think not too many of the folks here want to gloat over being right, if only because 90% of us, my guess, wished we had found MB even one year earlier.

I don't know how much this applies to other people here, but when I first started reading MB, I couldn't believe that the program made any sense. After a good deal of reading on MB I saved my marriage and made my W a much happier person, but it did take some time so it does not click with everyone immediately, least of all with an active wayward.

I think you will run into some couples in trouble and you will know what to say. I've helped two couples who were "definitely getting divorced", and while I can't say with certainty that I saved them, I do think a few positive words affirming the value of marriage and accountability can turn the tide.

Whatever became of the OM from your A?

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,

I completely agree. Now that I am no longer married, I ache for what I could have had if I had only opened my eyes bacj then. 17yrs of written history can never be taken away, but there are no chapters ever to be written again for us. It is a very sad thing, indeed. Although I wasn't able to save my own marriage, it's my hope that I can be instrumental in offering sage advice to active waywards to safe their own marriage.

The last I heard, the OM is now living with his new GF and her daughter. We no longer keep any contact and that's exactly the way I want it. My cell phone, e-mail and odometer are now properly calibrated to match my moral compass. It feels soooooo good!

180, I never "met" you on MB before, although as it turns out, my own affair ended barely a month before you showed up on MB for the first time.

But for the grace of God, the care of true friends, the advice of a good counselor & the forgiveness of a very special wife, I might have followed much the same journey as you have.

You have plenty of painfully-gained wisdom, no less painful for the self-inflicted nature of the pain, and no less wise.

Not often, but once in awhile, we FWSs can get through to someone in a way that BSs can't. Not that you should let time in front of a keyboard crowd out other priorities in your life, but you might indeed find that your words carry some weight around here. Welcome.

"painfully gained wisdom" Oh man.......those words really hit home.

You're one of the lucky ones who still has a marriage and a BS who was willing give you a chance at redemption after the fog lifted. God bless you both for the hard work that you have put in.

You reminded me of a Scripture. What does it profit a man if he gains the world and loses his soul?

You also just made a marine cry. Welcome back. I wasn't hear, but I'm looking forward to you posting.

180,
I have not been posting on this forum but...I can (unfortunately) relate to the WS. I had developed an infatuation for my DH friend. (I am posting on the Marriage Builders 101 forum...getting advice on developing new habits in my marriage and regaining the romance. It's up and down.) The last couple weeks that I have been posting on MB, I've been feeling great about the death of this infatuation. I have not seen him in awhile and had no communication. I rather considered myself well on my way out of this (infamous) "fog".

Well, what do you know...DH friend sent me a random text yesterday out of the blue (some song lyrics) and I answered. D*** it! He *never* sends me texts. What is he trying to pull? And why...ugh...didn't. I. Ignore. Him. Oh, I know why...I need an exorcism.

I'm just annoyed. And I am afraid.

I am, also, sorry to BS and vets who try to counsel WS who are resistent and fussy and addicted. 180, I am sorry that you were not able to recover your marriage. Your words are yet ANOTHER of the billion flashing WARNING signs on this site to get-away-while-the-gettin-is-good. Thanks for your words!

180, I arrived here after you, but like you, I am a FWW who has been unable to recover my M. I know what it feels like to have feelings of guilt, shame, and sorrow over what I did to my H, my children, and myself.

At this point, I don't have a lot of hope left that my M will recover, but I'm still hanging around because I hope that maybe I can help someone else to avoid the life - the half-life - I have now. "Painfully gained wisdom," indeed.

I, for one, look forward to hearing your contributions to the board.

ditto

heartfelt,

If it is any counsel to you, I once had an emotional affair. Before you go any further with DH's friend let me ask you this question, and then you ACT on your own answer. It is the question I asked my husband after his most recent affair (my husband's fifth!):


How great would our marriage be if you had spent just ONE-HALF of the time seducing me, that you wasted pursuing the other woman for something absolutely MEANINGLESS?



Schoolbus

[T/J] heartfelt_1, you don't need an exorcism, you need to change your phone # so DH's friend won't be able to text you again.

MarriageBuilders is not some kind of hocus-pocus. It's real, specific actions. If you want to kill an infatuation that you know is improper & detrimental to your marriage, then you need to take actions that will kill it. No-contact is that action. Not passive no-contact of the "I hope he won't contact me [but secretly hope he might]" variety. Rather, proactive no-contact, as in taking concrete actions to cut off channels of contact.

You either take the actions, or you're just talkin' it, not walkin' it.

P.S. Y'know what, heartfelt_1? I started talking with my OW about music. She was one of the singers along with me on the church music team. I wasn't even infatuated with her when it started. It was just harmless talking about music. Or so thought I.

Foretold is forewarned.

[End of T/J]

I used that same technique after MANY brief attempts at NC with my OM. It's called a "hook" and it was done to me as well by my OM. You need to show the text to your husband and then immediately change your number. Blocking his number won't work because any savvy OM will just call you from a different number. If you are resistant to changing your number, then you aren't ready to stop the affair. The longer you let this go on, the worse it is going to get until it swallows you whole and spits you out like you never mattered. You risk losing everything that matters to you. And when I say that, I mean E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G!! I sure did. This is definitely a situation that should send a chill of fear straight to your soul.

You have at least half to work with! I don't know what you have been through or what MB plan you are working, but all I can say is that if I had a chance to do this over again, I would have stayed NC, owned up to all of my lies and did everything that my husband requested of me in order to show him my remorse and that I wanted make our marriage work. Instead, I thought everyone was full of it because they didn't understand MY situation. I was too prideful and had the attitude that I was going to show everyone up. You see where that attitude has gotten me now.

I'll pray for you and your husband. Hold strong, be patient and willingly engage in his requests that will help to restore his trust in you. You have to be proven over time.

That's all I am hoping to do here. I was too late to save my marriage, but if I can reach out to just one wayward and help them turn around because of my testimony, that will make me happy. My kids ask me from time to time what I did and I tell them the raw truth with no fillers. I do this because I want them to learn from me as well. I have also promised them that I will never again put our family through the torture and pain that I caused them. I will have that regret for the rest of my life.

Thank you for the prayers, 180. We need all of them we can get!

My sitch is way too long to get into, suffice to say even though the A ended as soon as my H confronted me nearly 2 years ago, I trickle-truthed my H for 4 months and tried to make him believe I'd "only" had an EA when in fact I'd had a PA. NC was broken once. We didn't find MB until middle of last year, I started posting here about 1 year after the 1st D-Day, and H posted here for a brief time as well. Lots of stumbling along the way by me, but I've tried to own up to my actions and offer just compensation. It was just too much for him, and he moved out at the beginning of this year and says he wants a D. I'm still trying to meet his needs when he lets me, but at this point our sitch looks pretty bleak.

Ironically I've learned so much, not just from MB but from some of the other resources I've read, that I know how to be a much better W than I was pre-A. Just may not get the chance to prove that to my H, but I will continue to work on my side of the street regardless.

WP, your words resonnate with me. I will definitely be a much better wife next time if I ever get that opportunity again. Right now I am not ready for that yet because I still have a lot of internal clean-up to do. If you haven't heard of, "The Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren, you need to go out and get a copy. I have read mine several times over and it is highlighted so much that the pages look like a pink and white zebra. That book will put you on the perfect path and will comfort you. Live for God and you will reap more blessings than you will ever imagine! I will PROMISE you that.

What is your BH doing now? Any openness to reconcile?

He became an OM and is living with his AP and her DD.

I AM AFRAID. How did I get myself in this place?

Thank you for your words. I do not want to T/J (???) your thread.

I am interested to hear about your DH as well...so I will follow along. I hope it's okay to ask: Did your DH have affairs during the time you were together? Did you tell your DH about MB (when you were here the 1st time)? ...just wondering if he has been exposed to the concepts and if he knows what he has gotten himself into. Maybe he will (also) get himself out of that situation and you will have a chance to recover???

Thanks, again!

180 - Thanks for your posts. My WW is deep in the fog and I wish there were a way for you to talk to her. I hope you'll stick around and help others.

Welcome back,

I wasn't around either when you were here but glad you are back and willing to help, understanding from a WS's view is interesting and useful for a BS.
You haven't lost everything, you have a new and better you now.......
That is where your new life starts.............
jessi

180 -

No advice, no I did not participate in your discussions... just a wish for your healing. And I would give almost anything to have my WW learn what you have....

Blessings
Me BS 56
She WW 50
Hers 18, 22
Mine 22, 28, 30
Ours DS 12
D-Day 1 - April 26 2009
D-Dapy 2 - October 15 2009
Exposed February 22, 2010
Me: Reforming Verbal Abuser
She: still won't divulge OM # 2 despite overwhelming evidence, but slowly, ever so slowly, she is turning towards me. But it is more of an arrangement than a marriage.
Attending Counseling following MB Principles - maybe there is hope but other days I wonder if this is not a slow lingering death

180,

My soon to be xww sounds exactly like the former you! Her situation is so unique, going to show everybody up, yada yada yada. She truly believes she won't lose anything and her life will be a fairy tale.

Amazing how many of the former waywards come around eventually and admit to their mistakes with remorse and humility just to bad I don't think mine ever will. Way to prideful for that--oh and nothing ever was her fault!!

Best of luck 180-I will continue to follow your thread.

Double Ditto

Mrs. W

I'm not here to talk about my XH and the path that he is currently on. That's something he has to work through on his own, now. I am only here to right my wrongs on MB and to reach out to active waywards.

I will address your questions about us when we were married. Yes, we both had affairs (I was the first violator). I came here looking for sympathy because of "what a miserable person" he was to me and how the OM treated me so much better. I'm not sure how much research it would take to look up those old threads, but if you're interested my username was "muted sparkle" and my XH's was "spartan". We had a phone counsel with MB which would have helped tremendously if we had both been ready. We were just going through the motions without any E-motion. Another example of how costly affairs are. Not how the "can be" but how they ARE. We had to file for BK as well.

All 3 of you (along with Melodylane)weighed heavy on my mind for a very long time. Words fail to express my remorse as well as my gratitude for what you tried to do. I hope that in time, you will be able to accept my heartfelt apology. It took a lot of courage to come back and face what I did here.

Welcome back, 180.

Your insights and reflections will certainly add value to the discussions here.

I'll get back to you on that. You need to fully understand the consequences others experienced due to your forum actions. I will be honest. Count on it.

Meanwhile, I have a favor to ask.
Could you please add something relevant to .....

*** This thread for LURKING waywards ***

I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.

I fully expect what will be coming to me.

Yes, give me some time to put my thoughts together and I will add to that thread. I won't do a copy and paste, I want it to come from me. Thank you for the invitation.

Under the circumstances, you might want to consider dialing back on the self praise.

Proverbs 27:2

Be mindful.

John 12:43

I wonder about your reluctance to talk about that. I wonder if it means there might be some things there that you do need to talk about.

Well done.

Before you venture into becoming a MB "sage", one question.

Have you registered on MB forums under names other than MutedSparkle and 180?

This is actually very important. For you.

Yes I did. It was "better now" or something close to that. I wanted help for dealing with my XH's situation. I knew your advice would be solid but wasn't ready to face all of you. I discontinued using that account because I knew it was foolish to even go there. So I'm here......no lies to tell and no filtered truths.

MS/180,

Pepperband and markos have pointed out a few things that make me wary of you. I don't mean that as an insult, just that it gives me a bad feeling if you're not careful.

I think I've recounted this somewhere else on the boards, but early in my own recovery, (probably just a few months after joining MB, so a handful of months past D-day), I was pretty certain of my own trial by fire and all I learned and my ability to judge others' situations and teach them accordingly. My BH pointed out to me that perhaps I should continue to focus on my marriage and my own recovery.

And I did. And I am so glad that I did. When I look back now, I can see how if I had ceased my own development and recovery, if I had written it off as done and jumped ahead to helping others, I wouldn't have learned nearly enough of the lessons that I needed (and still need) to learn.

If I had continued being so sure of my goodness and rightness, I would have missed out on the lessons of humility and perspective, (to name but a few). (Looking back, I also think vanity - because that's what it was - is a highway to all sorts of transgressions, especially infidelity - I know it was in my situation.)

Yes, you have acknowledged that you are still working on yourself. That is great, and I strongly advise you continue to do that. Hopefully you will reach a point where you don't feel the need to point out your sincerity, or how much it took for you to come back here, (e.g.), etc.

I'm glad you came back. Keep reading, keep posting. I don't know of a single poster who MB hasn't helped, regardless of their situation.

Wow, im impressed to hear such remorse and honesty out a former wayward of not that long ago. Good luck 180.

Make an effort to remember exactly the other MB member name(s) you used to hide your identity.
It is important. For you.

FWIW I read the language that is turning people off as the product of unsophisticated diction - perhaps combined with an overeagerness to impress/make amends - rather than arrogance.

I agree, though arrogance is a trap that a newly repentant wayward may fall into. (IMVHO.) This is what I was getting at. That, and a note to caution against thinking this recovery stuff has a finite endpoint.

But the advice isn't solid when you omit important details. When you select what details to share, what you get is not advice, but a response you manipulated so that you can hear what you want to hear.

So I guess you got what you wanted.

Ready to be honest, yet? What were your other posting IDs, so we can see what you said, and help you face it? If you don't remember, I'm sure you can invest some research and find out. I'm always amazed what I can find out on here with a little researching.

Here it is.
My response.
First of all, the above comment really irritates me.
I am not here to dish out punishment or take you to the woodshed.
You are a grown woman. Take yourself to the woodshed.
And what's more, you make this sound as if what you "fully expect" is something harsh or bad.
What if what is "coming to" you is insight based on a deeper awareness and understanding of the damage you caused?

You ask me (and others) to accept your apology without a full appreciation of the ways in which you abused us. You might be genuine in your total absence of understanding of the ways in which you have hurt people. I suppose that is possible. Sad, but possible.

So, this is the gift I offer you.
Enlightenment of knowing the truth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is how you harmed me, personally.

Historically, I was usually willing to assist the new WWs.
I quite enjoyed being a part of lifting her WW fog veil and getting a first hand look at her rebirth.
Walking with a sister as she sets herself free from the bondage of her double life = a joy.
Now, not so much.
If I even get a whiff of chicanery I bail out.
I am far more vigilant to fraudulence and monkey-business, which might be a reason to thank you, not forgive you.
I am tired of helping people who I discover are lying to me. Call it burn out.
This pessimistic approach to the new WW's does not look good on me, but it protects me from further harm.

I miss my optimism.
I miss my confidence.
I miss my positive attitude.

What I gained was self knowledge.
Knowledge that online (compared to in person), I am far less able to determine who is sincere and who is not.
Knowledge that once I learn a MB poster has lied to me (us) on a "little thing", it is best not to trust that he/she will be honest in the future.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, onto the harm I saw that you caused others. Either directly or indirectly.
Once you positioned yourself as a FORMER WW who was working MB, are you aware of how many BH's looked to you for hope and inspiration?
These wounded husbands usually seek out a FORMER WW and ask them questions to help them understand their actively WAYWARD wife. Then, come to find out you were not at all "former" .... they give up. That's right. Their hopes for their WW ever turning around crash and burn. BIG damage done. To the BH. To their children. To the marriages that might have been helped by the MB plans .... why try MB since it does not "really work" anyway?

Other struggling WWs who might have looked up to you as a success story .... are now left wondering if they really can save their marriage.
If they remain on the forum, the WWs who actually want help might not receive the attention they need because of old-timer burn out. (like me)
WW's who remain posting might be the recipient of secondhand vitriol from other MB BH's who are struggling with trust issues based on your deceptive ways.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, now you know exactly what you are asking forgiveness for.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I forgive you.

I do not trust you.
I never will.
This is a forum and I have limited resources to verify facts that come into question..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God Bless

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ditto to what Pepper said, but I have to add in, that I am a bit MORE cynical of what I read and have a tendency to try to quickly break thru ww and wh fog rather quickly. My crap-o-meter is finely tuned.

I am not a hand-holder to the wayward, and believe that quickly letting them know the state of the affair and how it is destroying their state of their union is what I establish quickly. The quicker you see the reprehension in your actions, the better FOR YOUR MARRIAGE and possible recovery. Ending the affair to me, is the best and quickest outcome. And it takes sometimes a hard hitting and thought provoking question or assessment.
But I wish you well in your SINCERE desires to heal. Baring the soul is freeing the mind and freeing the soul. I pray you truly open yourself up to the whole truth and send any remanants of the wayward side to you packing for good.

Your own words. Do you mean this now?

Prove it.

I formally and directly thank the few de-fogged, repentant FWW's here from whom I have heard.

It is their perspective which helped me begin to let go of some of the white-hot rage I felt toward my own FWW.

And for the freshly betrayed, gooey remorse-puddle BH that shows up here just looking for hope, looking for light... a dishonest, disrespectful, fogged out WW is a knife being turned in the gut with every post.

It is natural of us to look toward our peers... and when an alien takes over the body of our beloved... we want to know the experience of those who beat the hostile invasion.

I remember Muted Sparkle well.

For me, it is interesting that the last time I read the words "my heartfelt apology", they came in Nov 2009 from my H's OW in an email she wrote to me. Her husband insisted she write the apology and at the time, she was in email/phone contact with my husband professing their love. Where's that little gag icon?

I am a cynic. On these boards, it is often referred to as "being bitter". I don't feel bitter, but I do listen/read WW's and those professing to be FWW's with scepticism. Actions over time scream over words.

My question is, "How is it possible a FWW/WW with a failed marriage and a BH/WH can contribute on this forum?" The marriage tanked. Did 180 and her H actually read/learn/apply MB principles? Don't think so. Does 180 actully know MB principles now? Maybe, maybe not.

AM

Sadly, I think most waywards here are sorry because they got caught.

And the "good idea" that was the affair or their affair partner turned out to not be that princess in distress or that knight in shining armor they thought they were.

But we DO see rays of beautiful sunshine and some lives of ws turn around! I am so blessed by their arrival here.

I too, got the horrible email from the ow. She said she was sorry and was turning from the affair by turning to her faith.

All she really did was talk my then wh into attending in SECRET of course, a "song of Solomon" conference WITH him so she could convince him (he had gone NC with her) that she was ONLY his friend and that SHE was wanting to help him heal our marriage.

the "reformed" ow, showed my H how to heal our marriage by sleeping with him the night after the conference. Yea where IS that pukey icon?

Point well made AM, and taken.

What I want to know is, why change your posting name anyways?

This is only for YOU, because I really don't need the answer. If you were truly repentant and want forgiveness, why wouldn't you keep the old name? That is who you were here, and the persona you would be asking for forgiveness.

Also, already, you have started this thread on a very bad foot. You came off as hostile, and unforgiving yourself. That says a lot about what you need to work on.

And, I see that you are unwilling to share information about your past(namely your XWH). There is a lot of trust that people place here. WHile it is an anonymous board, it isn't fantasy or fiction. These are REAL people behind these words, and many of them are hurting and trying to get past that hurt the best they can. Please remember that when you want to HELP and maybe, instead, read, read some more and LEARN yourself.

Good passage. Of course you know he's speaking to unbelievers here, right?

Ditto. 180, I look forward to reading your posts. I wasn't on through all the mess, but I've been on forums for a long time. I've seen people change and am optimistic that by God's grace people can and do sincerely change.

CV

AM,

But, not all. Gloveoil and Wolfpackgirl? And, other BS's Ws's that don't post here. And, Markos and Prisca as a team for example? I find these guys encouraging, no?

I don't blame anyone here for the likely proven suspicion (oxymoron) that some come here for a false pat on the head, but there are many that are true.

In the interest of full disclosure and for those who may have forgotten/never read the original thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2258358&page=1

Having re-read this, I think those who see arrogance in some of the above posts are, sadly, correct.

Maybe I have nothing to contribute here either. I know I read over my thread the last few days, and I was an arrogant little drama queen when I landed here last year. I have stayed b/c I genuinely want to learn, and I have learned, even though I am in a M that is rapidly doing a great impression of the Titanic b/c of what I did. And I genuinely like many of the posters here, and I want to help, if there's any way to help people avoid the mistakes I made in my M and failed recovery.

I'd hate to feel as if there was no place for me here, because here is the only place where I find any hope to fight for my M. I don't get that from family, from friends. This is the only place where I feel like I can find something that gets me to pick myself back up and live to fight another day.

I read over 180's old posts as Muted_Sparkle. I can completely see how she hurt so many of you.

I've been told I am naiive to a fault and much too trusting of people. But if people can't change, then why are any of us here?

And I'm saying this on the heels of my H telling me, just a couple weeks ago, that I haven't changed. I told him that I wished he could see what's in my heart.

But I know it's hard to see what's in someone's heart. It's hard to see true change through only words, especially words written on an anonymous web forum.

Me, I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt, b/c I am curious to see what 180/M_S has learned. I'm curious to see how someone else made it through the h3ll they created by having an A and losing their M. The FWS's who stick around are all pretty much in M's that are in various stages of recovery. They made it. There aren't many of them.

What does a person do, when they lose everything that matters, and it's all their fault?

That's my question.

Thanks Kerala! Dang...75 pages and before my time here...:)

I agree with you, though. I guess I just wanted to point out that there are many that are not arrogant. I'm pretty much stating the obvious though.

Surfer,

Of course, not all. There are many, many (both former WSes and BSes) who read, understand, and apply MB principles. They are beacons to others who arrive here in the daze of wreakage from the "worst thing that will ever happen" in most of our lives. These people offer hope of recovery, personal and/or marital. I am so thankful to have been able to read and apply the material on this website and the forum. Without MB, I believe my FWH and I would be divorced. Instead, we are perking along, getting better and better as time passes. There is nothing more boring than a thread of a couple recovering on the recovery forum. But, it is a really good kind of boring to the formerly BS/WS.

There are a few who arrive here who never "get it". There are some who do not read the materials. There are some who take short cuts. There are some who pick and choose MB principles and then wonder why their marriage is not getting better. There are a few trolls. And there are a few who are here for whatever personal reason.

I am grateful there are folks here who can sift through the wheat and the chaff. Meanwhile, I remain cautious for maybe a longer time than most.

As I said in my post, I remember Muted Sparkle well. I have not heard that much from 180 yet. I hope there is a story of great personal recovery to come. Until then, what is the validity of advice to newbies?

AM

Just wondering, did Spartan post here as well? I was unable to find anything when I searched, but I'll keep looking.

ETA - Found it - Here

Agreed, not all, and was ridic of me to imply that, if I did.

"And there are a few who are here for whatever personal reason" = I am one of them.

You are 100% correct regarding advice to the newbies, of which I consider myself.

Carry on, Major AM. I always appreciate what you have to say here, and you ARE one of those beacons. I'm not suckin' [censored], BTW...I mean that!

I am brought to mind of those cheesy Cristopher Lee / Peter Cushing movies of the '50s and '60s where at least once the townspeople-extras grab their torches (WalMart $6.99) and head to the castle to drive out the monster-du-jour. Depending on the point-of-view of the specific film, the monster either needed driving out, or everything was a big misunderstanding.

I don't know what 180 did (how often, how strongly, and to whom) in her previous manifestation on MB. I do believe however, that there are knowledgeable folks here in sufficient numbers to counter any "heresy" that ANYONE tries to slip past. For that reason (and because I'm not that far removed from being slapped down hard), I cannot support the idea of pre-emptively shouting down anyone who tries to post. Each of us is empowered to actively refute and challenge any position, or passively ignore it.

Anyway, just my $0.02......

My own 2 cents:

FWIW, I think 180 was pretty straight-up in her initial posts. She said she was guilty of blatant lies, wasting posters' time, and being a prime example of what an unrepentant wayward looks like, and she acknowledged having destroyed the man she married. Unprompted & in her own words. In that & subsequent posts, I just can't see a basis for the assertion that she "started this thread on a very bad foot" or "came off as hostile, and unforgiving" herself. Even when I re-read it a 2nd time to look for it.

Now: Did she finish her previous thread(s) on a very bad foot? Absolutely. So far, I don't see her contesting that. Did she fail to preemptively apologize in specific detail for each of the impacts that Pepperband highlighted so well? Yes. Maybe 180 has supposed some of those impacts during the interim between now and her thread of 2 years ago, or maybe not; but I am sure she has not felt them herself, any more than one who fires a gun but who has never been shot can feel or know what it feels like to get shot.

180, I think there are some lessons here for you as well:

Most of all, you see that an adulterer (former or not) starts out with zero credibility.

Given that you have a months-long (perhaps years-long) track record of being insincere on this Forum (prior to leaving and/or returning under different usernames), when you highlight ways in which you say you & your outlook have changed, even if you are sincere, there'll often be (among those familiar with your "body of work") a strong presumption that you might not be sincere.

And even an objective self-assessment (if such a thing is possible) will often come across as self-congratulatory, to the extent the assessment is positive. So for example, words that go out of your way to point out your "courage" for posting here, may be taken as unseemly self-praise. If you're humble, you'll be on your guard against that sort of thing; and if others someday compliment your courage, you'll pocket the compliment but feel a little ill-at-ease over it.

180, there are so few FWSs here that I am sure there are people who must think I'm a fraud. My first two months of posts got wiped out by the server-crash that trashed all the posts from May-October 2009, so I can't even go back & show 'em those. Other posters here can't see your life. They have only your words to go by -- all of your words, both present & past. If you don't have a spouse to chime in & vouch for you, then they'll be that much more skeptical still. Your ex-husband isn't here any longer to articulate his past or present suffering. So even though you tried to be comprehensive in your general apology for having "destroyed" the man you married, there'll be lots of skepticism over the degree to which you've made an effort to appreciate his suffering, apart from your own self-inflicted suffering.

You can't argue your way past the skepticism. You can only win back credibility in installments, over (much) time...

...if your statements & advice make sense,

...if they are consistent with what MarriageBuilders teaches,

...if they are buttressed by specific examples from your own life experience, that led you to your present understandings of things.

There aren't that many active waywards who come here. Even fewer stay. Most people who are still in a wayward fog, are too in-the-fog to go online to seek any sort of help, because they've convinced themselves that they don't need help. So you will be speaking mostly to BSs (those whose marriages have been saved, those whose marriages have not, and those for whom the jury is still out), and to a small universe of FWSs here who want on at least some level to save their marriages. Not having recovered your own marriage, you will be able to deliver credible advice mainly from the standpoint of "what doesn't work & why not." If you stay within the limits of your practical experience, you may find that you have much to offer, to some. You may find it less than cathartic, because the percentage and the actual number of people whom you'll be able to reach & help may be small, especially given your circumstances.

It's often said that we learn more from our failures than from our successes. Of course it is possible for someone whose marriage has failed to learn from that, to learn from his or her mistakes & sins, and to change, and to provide guidance to others on the basis of that experience. I am glad to see that the poster who posed a question that could easily be construed as suggesting it might not be possible, also seemed to acknowledge subsequently that a clarification of the record was in order. 180, my challenge to you is, day-in & day out, knowing that you can't prove it all at once, prove it anyway.

MS/180, GO just gave a very nice summation of the reality of the little world that we WS's have created for ourselves.

Your thread's been battered around a bit over the last day or two, but I'd say there are valuable things to be gleaned from all of those posts in some way, shape, or form.

Keep posting.

Nice post GO.

Words fail to express how sorry I am for the destruction of hopes and dreams for the many people who read through my previous threads. It pains me to no end knowing that I affected so many people in that way. As an active wayward, I had the all about me, me, me, me and let's not forget, ME mentality and couldn't see past my own selfish behavior to even concern myself with the lives of other people. I have shed quite a few tears reading through everyone's replies to me and they weren't tears of self pity. They were tears of remorse over the pain I caused. If there is any way that I can personally right what I did wrong to each of you, please tell me what I can do. I know that you only know me by my words here on this forum and right now they don't account for much because my credibility is shot. I have no one to blame but myself and that is something I will always live with. I no longer have a marriage to save and that also is my fault, but my willingness and commitment to change and become a humble human being with humility is what I am working on.

I am not here to make friends or be viewed as anyone other than who I am as ugly as that is. I was an arrogant, cheating liar who played the game and lost it all under my own hands.

I no longer have a marriage to save and will not post to any WW's until MB sees that I am fit and ready to do so. To tout that I am ready under my own self evaluation would be arrogant and self righteous. Although I want to help, I need to be proven over time. I also accept that I may never get that opportunity given my past behavior. All I can ask for is a chance.

I am not as well spoken as some of you here, but I am truly sorry and am asking for your help in what I can do to show you my repentance.

You can start by naming your unknown alias, as you have been asked to do.

180,

Even the active WWs on her, perhaps especially the WWs, have taught me a great deal about why my W strayed with her OMs. It does no one any good if you don't tell the truth of how you feel now or how you felt during the affair.

There are a great many non-posting guests on this site who will read your posts and recognize either themselves or their spouse in what you have written.

You have every right to be here.

God Bless
Gamma

Her alias was muted sparkle or something like that

Gamma, she has admitted to having another alias BESIDES sparkle which she is not naming, even though she has been asked to.

If she is sincere, then she has nothing to hide.

Muted Sparkle and the other one I only used for a brief time a while ago. I'm pretty certain it was "better now" but I am trying very hard to find it for you.

Someone had asked about what was going on in our marriage that lead up to our divorce and had concerns that I left out critical points. I went NC (changed my number and blocked his e-mail) with my AP for 2 months but couldn't hold to it and ended up telling him about my upcoming surgery. He could have cared less which was the best thing that could have happened, but at the time I didn't think so. Later, he e-mailed me a scathing e-mail caling me out on all of my lies, telling me what a worthless POS I truly was and how he never wanted to hear from me again. Not only did he shun me, but I was also alienated by my family as well as my H. I was now completely alone and had no one but myself (and my own company was no good). My H and I fought constantly and he wanted me to file for divorce and get out. I willingly agreed and within a month's time, I was out and in a place of my own. During the course of our divorce, my H started telling me about a HS friend that he was able to reconnect with through FB and how happy he was that he found her to talk to. 4 months after our divorce was finalized, she came out to see him with her girlfriend and he introduced her to my parents and wanted me to meet her as well. I reluctantly agreed only because she was with my kids during her stay and I wanted to know who she was. 3 months later, she came out again and for week and then 2wks later moved out here with her daughter. The story that I was given is that her H was a violent man and so she had and her daughter had to leave the state for their safety. It didn't sound right to me considering that I had played that same game with him but I let it go....we weren't married anymore and who was I to judge after all that I did? I kept asking him questions about her circumstances because she was living with my kids and I didn't want to take the risk of some maniac coming to his house while the kids were there. He wouldn't tell me and every time he did, the story changed. I did my own research and found her H on FB. It was there that I got the real story along with copies of phone records and other information I wish I hadn't know. Turns out that he had been pursuing her for 2yrs prior to our divorce through social networking (MS and FB) but at the time I didn't notice or care because I was too immursed in my own affairs. Yep, jokes on me too and that really stung.

When I left, I hated who I had become and what I put everyone through. I WANTED to stop the sick behavior and swore I would commit to doing whatever it took to stop. So now I live not only with what I have done, but also with how it feels to be played as well. I am acutely aware of the pain, loss and the ripple effect that affairs have. I look forward to my Christian counseling sessions as they are another small step in helping to conquer the disfunction in my life. Minute by minute, I am working on things and I am in constant prayer. I still don't have a relationship with my own family and this will be the 3rd year that I have not seen them (we only live 15 miles from each other). I have nephews I have never met and one that I don't even know his name. I'm paying DEARLY for the destruction in my wake and the pain is overwhelming. All of it is deserved.

It's not "Better Now" or "BetterNow." I've done searches for those.

What was the "situation" that you needed help with?

Why?

Is it stronger now? I sort of recognized the writing style because I posted to you on the divorced forum here: here

Piffle. You made a choice.

Watch for these types of errors in your thinking. Classic fog-talk. Once you recognize it, you can weed it out.

Sure sounds like it.

Hi 180,

I wish you well on your path to self healing and betterment. I'm not posting much right now due to an injury which has caused numbness in one of my hands and a couple of fingers on that hand, but I am reading along -- Anyway, I did want to mention a couple of quick things.

1. I'd appreciate public confirmation that you posted as Spartan [Your Betrayed Ex-Husband] in an effort to mislead this forum when you were here as MutedSparkle. Being 100% honest is the only way to healing.

and

2. Like Pep, I don't know if I should be angry with you or thank you -- You were the last WW I ever helped tried to help offline -- I did break down and offer to help one other person this year [strugglingaz], but that never came to fruition, and sadly I believe she remains wayward today. Your situation made me more skeptical -- cynical -- or maybe just more discerning. I don't know. Also like Pep, I will never be able to completely trust you, and since you aren't really a part of my life, there is no way for that to change -- and that's okay, but you should know, because it's important for you to understand how your choices impact others, and ultimately you -- Good or bad, ALL choices have consequences -- even the tiniest ones. Understanding that and living each moment of your life conscious of that is very empowering.

Godspeed on your journey. Take good care.

Mrs. W

180, this is why so many of us are encouraging you to open up and tell more unpleasant truths.

I've seen a couple of posts on this thread asking if you have anything to offer Marriage Builders. At this point, I'm not asking that question; I'm asking what can Marriage Builders do for you. And I think Marriage Builders can help you heal by encouraging honesty and maturity. I know that I have certainly gained a lot of maturity from reading and posting here (and that I have a lot more ground to cover on that front), and I wish for you the same benefit that I have been receiving, and I know that you simply cannot have that without honesty. Full, total honesty.

I have really learned to trust the hunches of people here that when they feel there is more to the story, there usually is. Some time back there was an active wayward spouse posting who was coming out of an emotional affair. Turned out it was a physical affair, and everybody who'd been here five or more years just knew it. I don't know how they do that, but they do.

So for your sake, I encourage you to offer a full accounting. Retell your whole story, and be honest about it this time. Who cares what you may or may not offer MB down the road ... this is a great growth opportunity that is being offered to YOU.

Agreed. I do not know you, 180. I wasn't here when you lied to everybody. I have no beef with you. BUT, I do know, from personal experience, what lies do to the liar. They will continue to eat away at you, from the inside, until you have exposed them all to the light.

You will not heal from your self-inflicted wounds, you will not grow, you will not be able to help others until you are completely honest with others and yourself.

180,

I just seen that Mrs. W. posted on here. And as she posted she did try profusely to help my wife (strugglingaz). My ww would have none of it (how sad). Then I see that she tried helping you as well. My question is when someone reaches out the way she has to you and my ww why do you continue to lie and betray? What is also ironic is that people on here can smell a counterfeit.

It sounds like you are at a crossroad right now and I would suggest coming clean with everything. Being righteous will only make people want to right you off and puts you in a deeper hole.

Personally I would love to see you come clean and prove to everyone on this site you are for real. I will be keeping an eye out!

Sounds like you need to start with Pep and Mrs. W.........

Seriously?

Hah! I remember M_S.

Confirm my general opinion of all adulterers she did.


Perhaps by doing whatever it takes, for as long as it takes, to mitigate the true damage:

�What does a person do when they lose everything that matters, and it's entirely their spouse�s fault?�

Adulterers agonizing over their internal states : mostly self-pity.

Everything needs to be done pretty much presents itself to the truly repentant.

WPG, it is very obvious to anyone who reads your thread that you are very repentant. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.

And that's the difference between you and 180. She hasn't been completely honest yet, and has a little more ways to go. Hopefully, she'll stick around and go through it.

You may lose everything on this earth, WPG, but no one can take God away from you.

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

Yes.

clicking "like" button now...

I dislike when I see TEAMS.

This site is not former waywards versus former betrayeds...

rather,

In my opinion...

It's EVERYBODY against waywardism, dishonesty, treachery, deceit, etc. and EVERYBODY for marriage (or recovery of individuals after infidelity)

You are either on the MB Team against them or you're not.

MutedSparkle at one time was a glaring example of someone NOT on our team. Her thread alone didn't demonstrate the level of dishonesty, deceit and waywardism. It showed some and some vets tried to fill in the gaps above so Muted could, if she so chooses, answer such discrepancies and start here again from scratch. It's difficult because all we have to go on moving forward is the written word and when others become skeptical of "your written words" it gets hard for "written words" alone to dig you out of that hole. Nobody's is telling muted not to try...in fact, they are asking questions which is ASKING for responses.

But we (Mrs. W and I) did learn valuable lessons back then. Some waywards will show up here with seeming good intentions who are not what they seem. They will take advantage of our good nature and attempt to use us as either part of their subterfuge in their continued abuse of their spouses, as part of their wayward addiction to admiration and/or as a further distraction/escape from real life. The really tricky ones know that selling us on their supposedly sincerity and attempting to build personal bonds may shield them from closer scrutiny (it gets tough to call out a "friend" you've bonded with and you so want to give them the benefit of the doubt). We really have to watch and try to evaluate WHAT THEY DO versus what they say as the sneaky ones will say anything they think we want or need to hear (for example...I've seen waywards show up and post guideline for wayward spouse threads trying to teach them how to end their affairs and recommit to their marriage only to later learn they were wayward all along or wayward AGAIN shortly thereafter). Mrs. W and I even spoke to Muted and her husband on the telephone back then...which we don't do anymore because we realize NOW it's not good for us OR the person(s) we are hoping to help. In public (on MB) waywards can grow, learn and beat the wayward illness...privately (where they tend to want to go to shield themselves, hide from scrutiny and escape real life ...thank God we don't have private messaging here) they don't learn, grow ...they tend to just remain stuck. There are entire forums out there on the internet where you can see this dynamic....waywards posting and complaining about their lives and marriages FOR YEARS upon YEARS....where nothing changes at all and nobody NOBODY dares to call anyone out or you're being MEAN or worse...judgmental. We (both former waywards and former betrayeds here at MB) have teamed up to see that that doesn't happen to the wayward posters that come here...."we" call them out and demand accountability and try to help them eliminate "waywardism" from their thoughts and actions. It they leave...they weren't ready...maybe they'll come back and apologize like muted/180 has and learn/choose to DO/BE better then.

MB magic only happens on MB. Muted can stick around or not. She can attempt to make amends and rebuild her reputation here or not. Nobody is running anyone off...just ASKING for some historical honesty first, before proceeding. We have no ill-will towards her. We (my wife and I) MAY steer clear for quite awhile or forever but wish her nothing but success.

Just my opinion. I'm not the boss around here nor am I necessary right. Just sharing my thoughts.

Mr. Wondering

Excellent post Mr W.

Thanks...

btw...it was only happenstance that it was made in response to your post. I wasn't really speaking about you or to you. I think you know that...but wanted to clarify.

Mrs. W and I will still email you...no worries. lol



Mr. W

I knew that.
I trust you.

180,

Where are you? I hope that you are lurking around reading this thread. I understand your motivation for coming back here to apologize. They don't make it easy, here, on MB...BUT they do know what they're talking about.

I was here once before and I became an absolute terror by the end. (There were only but so many 2x4s I could take without becoming overly defensive.) The moderators suspended me. That ended my first session of posting here. Only today have I been able to look back at that old thread...and OMG, it is he77 to see. And everything-- everything the posters said about me, what I was doing, that they'll see me back here if I didn't change...they were right.

You came back here to apologize sure...and possibly because you still need help and support. Don't give up...

heartfelt, can you supply your previous username and link to its previous posts on your thread, please? Thanks.

T/J over.

Well, I have to say I am disappointed (not surprised, but disappointed) that mutedsparkle/180 has seemed to have bailed. Mr Wondering's words have struck me though and I see that Pepper's and others suspicions appear to be correct. It really is about staying power isn't it?

We say we can change, but real change is demonstrated. Even when it seems impossibly tough. I fear 180 may not have had it (hope I'm wrong, I remain an optimist). Either way, let me say this:

Pepper and AM and others... My apologies to you, not for trusting 180, but for helping to ply a wedge between those of us who want to help. It shouldn't be since we all have the same goals in mind.

180? Come on girl. prove us wrong and demonstrate to us that you are what you claimed to be.


CV

Haven't logged in here for eons but imagine my shock to find recent posts by Sparky...

Don't quit now, Sparky. You might still be learning but you might have learned the most important parts already...

t/j

omg...Mark! i was looking for any new threads you have been on. (...though i was not well-behaved when you were on my thread, the things you wrote always made so much sense to me.)

vanilla, i was fullmoon...don't know how to provide a link (and not all that interested in bringing that back up anyhow). like 180 i am not proud, either, for any negative way i have impacted you.

Whoa - good to see you, Mark! Hey, we've got plenty of bandwidth just waiting to be used for long, wise posts! <grin>

, Mark!

MS/180, now you just have to come back.

Thanks for answering. I thought that was you. And even if you are "not interested" in rehashing that, I think it would serve you well to put it on your thread and own it. I think it will only help you grow.

Sorry, MS/180, but threadjacking starts to happen when you leave your thread for too long...

My personal suspicions are irrelevant to the facts.
Our collective MB experience in this matter, is very relevant.

CV, I was basically coaxing her to be honest with those of you who are not familiar with her forum history.
This has nothing to do with her being a FWW.
My position is 100% about her forum history, which she should own completely.
If she does not own her history completely, she is dangerous, IMO.

As always, Pep.

Thanks Pep. My apology still stands though. I see now what you (and others) were doing and why. Just wanted you (and everyone else) to know.

Yes, please do come back, 180. You'll get 2x4s but that should not stop you.

I got 2x4s when I first showed up myself, but I stayed because I know that these people KNOW what they're talking about.

180,

I was really drawn to your thread. I was a BS then a WS. I have not actively posted in years and do not come here regularly. You can take what I say with a grain of salt if you wish.

I believe that you are completely sincere in your desire to help other WW�s and you have turned your life around. I have to ask though do you think it would be emotionally healthy for you to post on this board and be reminded everyday of infidelity? You don�t need validation/approval from anyone on this board. These people are not in your day to day life. You sought forgiveness for your past mistakes and if they choose to forgive you or not that is their decision. I would leave it at that. All I am saying is the position that you are in now you are in a perfect spot to move beyond infidelity. You are divorced and the AP is out of your life. You are as we speak rebuilding your life from scratch and striving to be the best mom you can be. You are taking steps and making decisions in your life to make sure you don�t repeat past mistakes. I would keep moving forward and leave the past where it belongs�in the past.

Instead of seeking approval from virtual strangers on a message board concentrate on learning to love yourself again (if you ever did?). When that happens you can forgive yourself. I believe MB principals are sound and I encourage you to use the materials for self improvement and in any future relationship you have. You mentioned that you have not had contact with your family in 3 years. I would work on improving those relationships as well if they fit into the moral compass than you now live by. At the end of the day all that matters is what your God thinks of you and your children. I hope you find peace and happiness.

I totally disagree with what you're saying, bdtd. Totally. I am a survivor of infidelity. If I agreed with what you're saying, I wouldn't be here now. It would be too difficult to be reminded of my pain.

It is actually liberating for many to come back and help others - as a WS or as a BS. Allow 180 her desire to do so.

She is not here to seek validation or approval. As a repentent wayward who led many of us astray during her waywardness, she is now realizing the damage she caused and seeks to make things right. Don't take that away from her.

You are a danger to 180 to tell her that all is well, and that she needs to leave the past in the past. This is a blanket endorsement to go forward while ignoring the past. That is TERRIBLE advice. How long have you been on this site???

AND YOU'RE ONE OF THEM. DUH.

It's nowhere NEAR that simple. God loves 180 and her children. He loved them then, and He loves them now.

What is your point, btdt? What is your story? What is your old posting name? Maybe that will give me some insight and make me understand why I shouldn't be totally pissed off about your post right now.

Your only post on here is to tell someone this forum is not worth the time?

Is that why you stopped by? Something of a contradiction, dont you think?

No of course not. This board is a life line for many. In 180's case in my not so popular opinion I have to ask if it would be emotionally healthy for her to post here.

She obviously feels so.

What was your former posting name? You say you have been on this site for some time.

It is no more emotionally damaging to her than it is for any other former wayward who wants to right their wrongs and reach out to others to help.

There is nothing emotionally damaging in coming clean. There is nothing emotionally damaging in facing the wrongs you have committed against others, and owning them. There is nothing emotionally damaging in wanting to help others who are going down the same path. It would be very healthy for her, in fact.

"Can't change what you don't acknowledge." When someone wants to become someone better, they need to look deep within themselves to find out where there were faults. They need to learn how to fix those faults, and then FIX THEM. Sticking ones head in the sand doesn't help them grow. If someone really wants to make up for the harm they committed against others, they need to live a better life. I am hoping that 180 is away because she is working on herself.

It IS and has been a life line for many.

To answer your question, YES! it would be emotionally healthy (and healing) for her to continue to post here. Why? Because it would be an opportunity for her to grow even more and to pay it forward. Her experience would be invaluable to new WWs who come to MB to see what happens when they continue to lie and deceive. Thankfully, she sounds like she has truly repented (IMO) but sadly, it has cost her an enormously.

I would love to see more FWWs posting here, at least the ones who are true (or want to be true) FWWs and who are not here under false pretenses. It is amazing to see the change.

There's a new commercial on TV about New Orleans where people are "unzipped" to reveal their fun side. On MB, it's kind of a similar transformation. Newbie WWs show up probably at their worst. They are "zipped" up in their fogginess and selfishness.

If they stick around and do the work and are truly honest about recovery (personal or marital), you can almost watch the transformation. Their recovered selves are revealed and they shed that old person who was foggy and selfish.*

180 was never unzipped. In fact, her zipper was stuck. For her to come back and come clean is HUGE (if it's true) but we really can't see that if she's already running away. Her words sound nice and pretty but are they true?

So what's your story?

(*If you haven't seen the commercial, then this won't make much sense.)

I did too. As the BS!

I got the 2x4's because I was here for the anger. I was SOO angry and hateful about my H's A. It was 1998 and the forums were not nearly as good as they are now. There wasn't much advice ("let it go", "get over it") as what there is now. But I did get some support and compassion and it let me know I was not alone. Reading Dr Harley's advice and concepts saved our marriage.

180 WILL be back IF she really wants to recover HER life and to help others. If she's sincere, nothing will keep her away.

How would the board be a "lifeline" for anyone if recovered posters did not stay here and help others? If there is not someone here to THROW the lifeline, then there will not be a lifeline thrown, would there? How would anyone get help if no one was here to help? That is crazy to say it is "unhealthy" to help others. What a very dysfunctional, selfish outlook. The healthiest people are those who get out of themselves and give of themselves to others. Some of the most fulfilling moments of my life were giving to others. You should try it!

A life devoted to self centeredness and selfishness is an empty life of very little meaning.


This is a form of narcissism that most certainly is not healthy. Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist had this to say about "loving oneself"

/tj

MelodyLane, you said hello to me in a rare post I made a while ago. I just wanted to say hello and give you the cudos you deserve for all the spot on posts you continue to make. May you always find the strength to keep those Texas guns "blazing". You have helped so many people here, including me. Thanks! End tj/

shattered dreams

Thank you, SD! I am always so happy to see your posts here, because I know they will be full of wisdom. {{{{shattered dreams}}}}} I hope you are doing well, friend.

Good to see you Mark, missed your wisdom.

Yes folks, I will have to agree, if we fall in a hole, or trip over a stone, we should not be embarrased that we did, but that we didn't help others avoid the same pitfall.

I read your previous thread. Your husband and my husband are alike with their lack of any emotions. I would be curious to hear an update on whether or not you were able to work things out.

Sparkle - after reading your thread and a couple other threads of WW, I can see why members assumed I was lying about even small things. It sounds like you have changed and would have a lot to offer to other wayward spouses.

t/j

Violette,

Welcome to MB. I see that you are a fairly new member (of a few weeks). I have read only your first post (of your thread) but I will read them all. NO, DH and I have not worked it out yet. Of course, he doesn't think there is anything that we need to "work out" or "work on". I don't have the answers...but should I discover them, I will be sure to let you know. I cannot give out much advice (or any, really) since I am fairly new myself even given my prior posting history.

Only I do want to say.........(from your first post on your thread) I did notice that you have a male friend that is meeting a need of yours...and that is what DH's friend did for me. I know how much trouble that can be. Now I have to suffer through digging myself out of that deep hole. It does not feel good to go through that process. I did learn that I must maintain "extraordinary precautions" and not allow other men to meet my needs. I am certain that you have already been advised about that. I will follow your story and wish you the best.