My Story:
Married 7yrs - 2 DD (4, 6) and 2 DSD basically mine (11, 15). WW connected with a guy in town on facebook when he sent her a PM saying "you are so beautiful". Flattered her and she started chatting and then texting A LOT back in March/April. I caught her about 2 days after she gave me the "I feel different about us" speech that came right after we had sex one night. I saw a chat pop up on laptop from him and she quickly closed it as I was standing there. A few minutes later while she was in bathroom I saw it pop up again. This was on Easter night. This jerk then even called several times and I finally answered and said "no more". He said "your wife needs to tell me that".

Well I started checking phone and text records. In one month they had more that 6000 texts between the two + phone calls. Through-out the next month and half WW continued contact but told me otherwise. I noticed she had a new yahoo chat acct I found in her web history on smart phone. She locked me out of the phone company website. All the while she tried to play out normal life with kids and me. Still took bike trip with me, camped with kids etc. Still having sex too. About a month after D Day I had suspicion she was going to his house after work and giving me false times when she was done with work. I found his house and she was there. He just arrived and told her he saw my car. I met her at the end of driveway and she drove home. Shortly after he started messaging me on FB telling me to tell her to stop calling him etc. she made her choice and he was not gonna be the guy on the side.

7th anniversary came in June and we went camping at a local festival. I went all out romantic. We had the time of our lives connecting again, crazy good sex, etc. Just a day prior she stopped at his house "one last time to call it over" and she took a pic with him. She admitted this to me on day 1 of the trip and then he posted it on facebook. She again said it was all over.

I found out on Fathers Day weekend we traveled to Ohio that she was there again the day we left via his FB msg to me. He described what she wore that day down to her color of underwear. She still denies having sex with him btw to this day. On 6/23/11 she called me and said she was done with him and cannot live deceiving us both and wanted US to work. Never wanted to contact him again. I felt real good about this. 1 month to the day later he FB msg me again saying she txt him everyday... she denied of course...I still dont know if it was true.

August 28 - found his # on her phone again from earlier in the week - even though it was supposed to be blocked. He called to wish her happy b-day was the excuse cause he saw her in town. I flipped out and she said it was done... really it was nothing... she really only wants me. Again I felt she was heartfelt in her response.

Mid September - found a call again in her phone log after she went alone somewhere. It was a call into her phone and then her return call. Both less than a minute, they did not talk she said. She called back because it was odd as she had his # blocked which she showed me this time it was. A week later I noticed her behavior was not nearly as loving toward me. I questioned her and this time she said she wanted to separate.

She has since backed off separating but claims she is just not sure of what she wants any more as she feels it can never be the same as before and that she feels responsible for it and not sure if she wants to live with me always having doubts about her. I have told her I have forgiven her as that is what God commands of us as Christians. She claims to be smothered by me and that I constantly expect her to do be lovey with me. In reality I am just looking for normal affection. A kiss when I walk thru the door coming home. An "i love you" now and then.

We went thru a Love & Respect class at church during May and June and it helped us treat each other much much better. God challenged me to write a marriage covenant and present to her. I presented it last week and she loved it, but she is not willing to sign it. Nothing in it is scary...but she feels I am "pushing God on her"... which is odd for a Christian to say. She lacks a good Christian friend where we live and I think that has contributed to her not living the straight and narrow path she believes in.

I have been in counseling since June. My problem is "letting her go to God". I cannot seem to back off and put my faith in Him to do His work on her. Control freak? Probably. So this week I have really backed off as she said she needed some breathing room. From experience I believe she is not sneaking around seeing the OM, but she is just keeping her distance from emotionally. It is hard to lay next to her in bed as I love her so damn much. She is all I ever wanted in a woman, and she tells me I am an amazing husband - all a woman could ask for.

My question is how to get through this without pushing her away any further? I don't want my family ripped apart. My heart breaks for my daughters if they knew their mom has strayed. We try so hard to teach them love, respect, honesty and commitment and this would rock their world!!

Sorry about length - thought backstory was appropriate.

Think of her OM as her crack cocaine of choice.
You are living with a woman who is hooked on the attention OM provides.
She will chose to contact OM instead of doing other less exciting things.
Things like reading or spending time with the kids will be cancelled or delayed or rushed .... so she can get that 'high' OM provides.
No matter what you say, as long as WW is deep in her adulterous affair, she is a lousy mother. Do not attempt to protest this fact.
OM attention will win out over her motherly duties, and this will worsen over time.

More time thinking about/chatting with/texting/touching/having sex with OM = deepening of the conditioned pleasure/reward stimulus associated with OM.

In other words, the longer you wait to take action to STOP her adulterous affair, the more she will be hooked, and the less pleasure she will derive from any other source.

Do you get that?
The addictive nature of adultery worsens the longer it is allowed to go on.
The addictive nature of adultery is modulated by neurotransmitters that create a conditioned stimulus in her brain. Her crack cocaine is OM.

She will, she HAS, put her OM (crack cocaine) above her need to have God in her life.

She's on a fast track to hell, and you want to wait it out?
You are willing to allow the mother of your children to fall into deeper pits of sin and despair.

When God hands a man/husband/father a tool, and that man refuse to use that tool to save his family, I think that man is a coward.

Are you a coward?
Or, are you God's warrior, willing to fight for your family?

Yes, or no?

The reason this affair has evolved to the point of her wanting a separation is because you have spent most of your time enabling instead of trying to save your marriage. Your wife is the crack head and instead of helping her sober up, you have been driving her to the crack house. Its very hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. Rather you have been wasting your time trying to meet needs and APPEASE someone whose lovebank is obviously closed to you. She has been rewarded for having an affair and is enjoying the attention of two men. For what possible reason would she ever give that up?

Would you "let her go to God" if someone were raping her in front of you or would you man up and try to save her? Because that is the issue here, Sir. You need to run this OM off and fight for your marriage.

Has this affair been exposed to everyone? If so, to whom?

It is VERY important you spend 30 minutes watching this video. In fact, watch it every day for a week. (click to watch)

God DOES NOT "command" us to forgive the unrepentant. You are harming your wife by passing out cheap, feel good, unwarranted forgiveness when there is nothing to forgive. That is not how Christian forgiveness works.

I always like to look at thread titles, because I think they say a lot about the poster.


You have no reason to have hope.
Why not?
Because you have no PLAN to end the adultery and you have no PLAN to rescue your family.

You might be "looking for some hope" .... but really, you should be ....

LOOKING FOR A PLAN OF ACTION !

Without a plan, hopelessness/helplessness/despair/and a soon-to-be-broken family.

Hope is not a plan!!

CLICK THIS *** link ***

Read the entire thread.
This is the outline of a plan.

Wait a minute.

How does one meet "a guy in town" on Facebook?

How do you approach someone who lives in your town via Facebook? Is there a group for the residents of your town? Seriously; he sent her a message saying "you are so beautiful" and she started an affair with him because of that?

There is a lot you have not found out. How did they really meet? More pressing: are they meeting now? If he is in your town, how easy that would be!

I don't believe that she cannot meet him because of her tight work schedule. She is meeting him somehow during the day. Perhaps he is connected to her work? Perhaps that gives them a legitimate reason to meet, without disrupting schedules?

What else do you know about him, other than that his wife died of cancer? Come to think of it, how do you know THAT? Did your wife tell you that?

BUY THIS ** book **

You will become depressed and hopeless if you refuse to pick up the tools to save your marriage/your family.

You are the one who needs to changer first.
Your wife is an addict at the moment.
You must be stronger/braver than a man sitting on his butt, hoping something will change.

YOU must be the change.

That she works on medical truck makes it seem as if she is in central America or somewhere.

Are you together every night? Is she working away from home? (I am not asking you to reveal your location.)

The founder of this website started his career in alcohol and drug treatment therapy. He clearly associates the dependency on drugs and drink to a cheating spouse need to be with her cheating partner.

That should make you feel a little better in that is not you, its her.

So we found out who to blame.

Now, how to fix it. Get the book Surviving an Affair and have you and her read it.

The first thing you must do is OUT the affair everyone. If the other guy is married, start with his wife. Then his employer, then your parent, her parents, siblings, and even kids. This is, bar none, the best way to end the affair.

Let us know how this goes.

Stay focused shes in the deep fog.

I can tell when she is at work. It is a mobile medical unit and when she is on her computer I can tell by the chat mode she is in when we converse. I know the commute times back to home. I can also call the direct line. He may know where her truck is but from what I can tell in msgs they have met at either his place or a place a shares with his mother. He works midnites in a completely diff industry. They friended on FB as we are about 4 yrs apart in school. I was even friends with him on FB as he was a familiar name and also had several mutual friends. I am certain it stemmed from there. There was really no other way they would've connected. As far as his wife goes - yes I am certain of this too. I perused his FB enough to know that.

In fact I just had lunch with her at her work (works 2 days in same town as me) and I said I woke at 3:20am with a upset gut in which she said " and I am sure to check my phone too". That led me to inquire "why would I - do I have a reason?" "no" no contact since the last missed call I saw. I then asked when she last saw him..."forever ago" was her answer.

I explained to her I knew the OM was like crack cocaine - she said it isn't like that.

I really want to send her the "To the Unfaithful Lurkers - A Gift" letter I just saw on here. It says everything - a wonderful slap in the face wake-up letter to the WS.

I want to get going on a plan. hard to do with so much work and no possibility to get on here at home. I need to do some reading somehow?!?!?!

Thanks for your help everyone!

MrAmazed, don't send her here!! That will ruin your ability to save your marriage.

Come back and we will give you a plan. Exposing the affair wide and far will have a dramatic effect on the affair.

Exposure is the most POTENT weapon against an affair.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO !



Did you even READ the carrot/stick linked thread?

And that is MY thread .... it is for waywards who are already lurking.

Time for some quick facts about WWs that have been established through analysis of dozens (hundreds?) of BH threads here:

1 - Your WW is still involved in the affair. Right now, it might be dormant, only "active" in the "dirty little secret pleasure-spots" in her mind, but she still craves him.

2 - As long as she hungers for him, she will NOT be in love with you. WHs can pull that trick (loving two women) off, but WWs cannot. It's either him or you, pardner.

3 - While the affair may very well die out on its own, by the time that happens, she would have rewritten history and your qualities (to justify her heinous infidelity) that your marriage will be an absolute shambles, probably irrecoverable. You must kill the affair ON HER PART, not his. He's not important to your situation except as a EN-donor to your wife'ds addiction. If he's gone, and she's still "jonesing" there will always be the existence of another OM.

4 - Her current life has made this affair possible. Be prepared, if necessary, to ruin every vestige of that current life of hers. You may have to shame her in front of family and friends, you may do things which will get her employment terminated, you almost certainly will have to reveal to her children the depths to which their previously revered mother has sunk.

We could spend a week easing you into this, but I don't think we've got a week to spare in your case. Print the following action plan out, and be ready to activate it. This is the affair-destructive PLAN you need, not empty hope.

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. (�Eblaster� can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take �personal� calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and �on� whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife�s contacts, to the tune of: �I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333�
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM�s contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

Issues I have currently with exposure plan

1. We cannot afford to have her lose her job - bread winner
2. I dont have access to her computer she uses at work.
3. Her phone is a palm - I've looked into it b4 and cannot find a spy software for the Op Sys

Crap I must go get kids to practice... so much info and stuff to learn... Feeling overwhelmed in every facet at the moment (work, kids, this infidelity) ARRRRRRRGH!

I will try to check back -

How does workplace exposure apply if they met on Facebook?

I am confused about why you mention workplace exposure? Is this a workplace affair? Who gave you this exposure plan or is this an assumption on your part?

We do have several different options for spyware for phones. Brickhouse security might be able to help.

Mr. Amazed-

You need to decide what it is that you want. If you wish to save your marriage, you must be prepared to do what is necessary. I know first hand how confusing and difficult the first few days are.

It's time to suck it up and be strong. What good is her income going to do if you are not together to use it?

This is a life and death fight....for your marriage. Do what is necessary. Make the time to read the links. Stay calm, and don't act on emotions. Read. Learn. Develop and share your plan here. These great people will help you through it. Trust.

If it's not a workplace affair, then, don't worry about it.


But you have access to one at home. Look, she has to have a way to contact him after work and on weekends. Put the keylogger on all of your computers (ipads, too). Look for a secret phone--check her car.


Phones get lost and accidentally stepped on. Get my drift? Pretend to be all happy that you bought her a newer and better phone with a nice little program previously installed on it. Blackberry models, I hear, support voice recording by spyware.

That would apply, really, to any internet-ready device that you cannot bug. Just take a drive, toss it out the window and look dumber than dirt when questioned as to the item's location.

I'm the one who indirectly brought up workplace exposure. My point is that the exposure, once performed, often takes on a life and impact of its own.

It may have effects that are not anticipated, but should be recognized as possible.

You make a good point. If there are people there that may be some influence, then broadening it to include the workplace would make sense.

Carpet bombing during exposure would surely give the most bang for the buck.

If it's not a workplace affair, then no need to expose there. Expose where it will be effective to do so.

Exposure will pi$$ her off something fierce. But part of the reason the affair thrives is because it is going on in secret.

I would make a few things clear to her.

Let her know that you won't tolerate this for long. It must end now in order for you to move on in your marriage. You must also make it clear that if this leads to divorce that you won't make it either pleasant or nice and that you will make adultery an issue and go for full custody.

This is a wake up for the WW. It lets her know that her fantasy of a friendly divorce is just that: a fantasy.

Now, we want to save your marriage. So tell her this stuff AFTER you've laid out the preferred path. The preferred path is one where she agrees to never speak to OM again. She must confess the entire affair to you (which has clearly gone physical).

Find out if your state has alienation of affection. Sue the other man for it.

Expose to his friends and family on FB. Let them know he's having an affair with your wife.

The objective of exposure is to bring it out of the shadows, get support from family and friends to end it, an kill it.

BUT UNDERSTAND: THERE IS NO HOPE FOR YOUR MARRIAGE WITHOUT EXPOSURE.

You've been living with the cycle of false recoveries, which come because the affair goes dormant.

Let her see that you are a man who won't take this lying down and will man up to end it.

I have a feeling that your WW is salvageable. Many WW's on this forum are long gone and so deep into the affair that the BH has a giant mountain to climb.

But understand that the only thing that will save you is action. Talking to her is useless. You don't ask drug addicts to stop. You take away their drugs and crack pipe and put eyeballs on her so she can't go out and get more.

That's your only hope my friend.

Finally, get checked for STDs. You've been exposed.

ITA. Focus exposure on the targets that will be most likely to apply pressure on the infidels to end the affair.

Caveat: Even if they don't work together, one or both of them may work for a company that promotes itself as a morally-based organization with moral employees. Or one of them may work for a religious organization that would be against adultery. Those employers would be good exposure targets.

To clarify - it is not workplace related.

Had a long calm talk last nite with WW. I told her that I am a worthy man and I will not make this sound like my fault for her choice. She needs to take responsibility for her response. I would not stand by and watch my family be torn apart - that I will fight for it.

She has repeatedly claimed she has not seen him since June. And never wants to ever again. I have seen some of the msgs to her and he sounds like a real [censored] - really demanding and crass. Sounds like a poacher type (seeking out married women - a friend of ours revealed he did the same to her when she was married about 4 yr ago) She has shown me her attempts at no contact via blocked # and deleted chat account. I probably emptied the LB by saying that was nice to see but there are alternate methods and other accounts could be opened. It would be very hard for her (due to picking up little kids and being at home with them, etc) to have met up anytime recently. She has even sent pics with them together so I know she is not with him.

She even revealed to me about a month ago that she sent a FB msg to his current girlfriend to tell her what a sleaze he was and how he continued to harass even after the NC attempt in June. Yes I know she is deflecting blame - but this guy was quite brazen when it came to msg me. Too bad I deleted them GRRR. I couldn't stand seeing them in my account - the pain I felt was too much as I was trying to recover with her. I believe that is what prompted his calling her again briefly and she admitted it to me without me prompting or being suspicious of this activity.

I know I have read on here that you can never trust what they say. I want to be a trusting person and that is my weakness. I'd like to think I know when she is lying - last nite she just plainly said - "I do not want him anymore and I dont know if I want you anymore either, that is why I am so confused".

She does not use the laptop at home ever. It is always her phone or laptop at work (I have not access to it as it stays at work) At this point she knows I am on to her and handing her a new phone would definitely be suspicious activity in her view. The one she has just doesn't leave her side and she is always the one to take care of the phone stuff. It would be very un-stealthy.

Once again, I asked if they had sex. She said no again. It was only talking with him - and "thats what you don't get". I told her I wanna know the truth as I don't want any STD and would like to know if I should be checked out for my own safety/health. She said no. Asked why they never did "because of you" was her answer. BTW her previous husband was a WH with a physical affair and she always said she'd never want that pain to be inflicted on whomever she was with. Could this be an emotional affair only? I know since they have met in person the likelihood is high that it got physical. However - even the OM messages never said "I am banging her." Only "seeing her" "meeting her". I know he was trying to drive a wedge between us so he could have her alone to himself but he never actually plainly said they were screwing. Wouldn't he have plainly said that to me if they had? I would have to believe that would be the nuke in his arsenal if he really wanted us broke up.

So if there is the chance that she really doesn't want him anymore (as she has recently demonstrated showing blocked # and deleted chat acct) and I go blow up her world with exposure - and it truly was an Emotional Affair, I believe I am taking a huge risk at this point if she is in fact genuine. I know you think I am a big pu$$y at this point, but in small towns, this has ramifications down the road for the rest of our lives. (I know - do you want to save marriage?)

My, how honorable of them. I'm sorry, MrAmazed, but

1. They are waywards and waywards lie.
2. They had opportunity.
3. He didn't admit they were having sex because he was afraid that might push you over the edge and you'd come after him with a gun.
4. If he was trying to drive a wedge between the two of you so he could have her to himself, he's already 'had her'.

You are so desperate to believe a couple of liars that you're willing to buy anything they sell you.

Ask your WW to sit for a polygraph and see what she says.

What you could do is take her phone in the middle of the night and install spyware. Some spyware, such as eblaster for phones and flexispy, has a built in GPS, along with a log of all calls and a copy of all texts.

You should also get access to all the phone bills to see who she is talking to.

The problem here is that your marriage won't recover unless there is a plan to affair proof your marriage and commit to a program of recovery. That begins with complete honesty, complete transparency and an end to all contact with the OW. It means that your wife stops behaving inappropriately with other men and changes her life in a way that this can't happen again.

The first step is get the truth about her affair. I don't believe you have the full truth. What I would do is schedule a polygraph and tell her 2 days ahead of time. She obviously won't object unless she has something to hide. A polygraph would only validate that she is telling the truth and that is what she wants, right? When you tell her about the polygraph appointment, hand her a list of questions and tell her she has one last chance to come clean before the test, but if she fails the test it is all over.

Watch her start singing like a canary. You will get the truth, likely. But that is your starting point. You have to get the truth if you ever want to hope to save your marriage.

Right now you are in a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage and are more vulnerable to an affair now. Marriages do not recover by magic and this won't recover unless certain things happen.

So she can still support our kids even if we end up divorced. I don't think sabotaging her career and income source is sound advice when I have 4 other souls. They need to be supported clothed/fed/educated etc etc. That would be negligent to them.

The issue I see here is that you have set the bar so low that your wife is just living down to your expectations. Here is my canned discussion I recommend you have with her:

p.s. since she hooked up with the OM on facebook, I would insist she delete it. It would be crazy to keep a facebook account since that is how her affair began.

Now wait a minute. If she got fired from her job, it would be because of her affair not because of you. So how would you be sabatoging her career if she got fired because of her affair? You did not cause her affair.

Personally I don't think you need to expose at work unless they have a morals clause but your logic is faulty on this one.

Does she have a job where they would fire her if they knew she was committing adultery?

1. Her phone is a palm. Nothing is currently available for spyware unless someone here knows something I don't.

2. Phone bills are electronic only and I need access from Phone Co to do that. She is notified by Phone Co via text msg once access codes are changed (assuming I can guess her access code again). I did this once already and some how she changed it back even though I used a PIN she would not have guessed (an old address from childhood) she was furious as you may imagine. HA

3. Polygraph? when/where? We are 4hrs from any metro area. How would that work - she'd simply say I'm nutz and I won't drive there to do it.

Only thing I could do is put GPS device in car.

I have asked her. She basically said no. BTW she is on it constantly - she is addicted to it I truly believe. I asked about the possibility of sharing an acct as my pastor advised. A cold maybe was the answer.

In fact I saw msgs on there (her phone late at nite) to other FB friends of hers, some old acquaintance in another country and another guy 1200mi away that were inappropriate too. One said "you like 'poking' me a lot, we don't you ever chat on FB" I found his # in my old text logs I downloaded back in April. 30 msgs in about 10 days with some pic/mms messages. The other guy was a friend of hers from college who was friends with her ExH. He was going on about how sexy he thought she was and that she was still HOT and if he could go back in time etc...

I have found emails she sent of herself in a beach dress to an unknown address too. She claims she didn't and if they were they were by "mistake" Funny, I say "how did your phone know that they were taken at the DD b-day party?" which was in the body of the email... I really wonder if she has a fascination of being wanted... Its truly crazy - my counselor said he has seen a lot of that in women her age of late. Like an early midlife crisis. Saddens me she harbors these deep slimy thoughts.

I would check with Brickhouse Security and flexispy and see what they have.


Thats fine if you have to change the password. It should give you enough time to download and print all the bills. And why else would she change the password unless she has something to hide.


I would find one locally.

If you would place more emphasis on finding ways to protect your marriage instead of finding endless excuses about why you CAN'T/WON'T you might be able to save your marriage. But we can't help you if you refuse to help yourself.

It is going to take a much more proactive approach if you expect to turn this around. As you have learned, complacence is not helping your marriage. It won't fix itself on its own. You have to actually step up here and do some work. [other than finding an excuse to not do anything]

What should sadden you more is that she is no longer in love with you BECAUSE of her independent behaviors, her affair, her Facebook, and her callus disregard for your feelings.

Your WW is A-OK with hurting you and making you miserable.

Now, what is your plan?
Quit monkeying around.

Personally I believe her personal life and her professional life should be separate unless it was done at work which it wasn't. This has no affect on her competence and it would be unfair to have the possibility of having her fired. Sorry - don't agree at all on that one


NO they wouldn't I believe.

Deleting facebook is an extraordinary precaution that is not negotiable. The most glaring problem I see in your marriage is that you have set the bar so LOW that she is just living down to your expectations. There is no excuse to tolerate her sneaky behavior. It is obvious to any outside observer that she is still having an affair. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

Yet you tolerate that. And have lots of excuses why it can't be changed.

Mel: Here is what I suggest. (plan)

You: Yes, but .....

Mel: This is why this has worked for countless others (explanation)

You: Yes, but .....

Mel: What we have seen time and time again is (examples) and that is why (plan) works.

You: Yes, but, that might make WW mad. Yes but, that won't work in my case. Yes but, we live in Timbuktu. Yes but, it's Wednesday and I never do things like that on Wednesday. Yes but, I wish she loved me.

Many companies disagree with you on that. Of course a person's private life reflects their character and in many companies is a major consideration. Immorality most certainly does have an effect on one's competance. Who wants to employ a liar and a cheater? For example, there are many positions, such as teachers, pastors, military, where their character does count. Teachers are around children, military have a code of conduct and pastors are expected to conduct themselves morally. In the military, adulterers are often court martialed.

Many companies don't want to employ liars and cheaters and that is just smart business. As a former recruiter in my last company, I assure you we took stuff like into account if it came up. [one local woman who was in an affair applied for a position and no one would touch her with a 10' pole] And when there were workplace affairs, the employees were terminate immediately.

So, you might believe it has no bearing, but often it DOES. Employers have a right to weed the bums out of their ranks. They are bad for morale.

I am really not trying to find excuses. I have tried the spy technique. Fact - I have researched spy phone stuff - it doesn't exist for her phone. Fact - I cannot get access to her phone bills cause they are locked down. She is constantly using her phone so she'd know INSTANTLY. What good would that do?

I searched for polygraph in area - Not available.

Dont confuse me with being non ProActive. I've already looked into many of the things you have suggested. I unfortunately have a phone no one makes spy software for and we live in a rural area of the country.

I like the canned conversation above though thank you. And I have had some of those conversations with her. I just have not threaten to leave if she doesn't abide. I don't wanna give her what she is looking for I guess.

Yup you are right. Maybe I haven't bought into this approach yet (ya think?) I do struggle with this approach. Other(s) I've sought advise from including a couple pastors and a marriage counselor use the GRACE of God approach and dealing with the "me" side. Its all very confusing and I had prayer for this in my prayer group last night so I can make the correct decisions. Your approach is like a frying pan to the face and I am struggling to believe in it even though it worked for 1000's here. IDK - I am still gathering info - its just my personality...research research research prior to pulling the trigger. Ugh!

Please don't get discouraged with me as I try to sort out this most difficult time in my life. Ugh Ugh!

MA-
You have brushed aside the advice gleaned from the books and teachings of someone who has counseled 1000s of couples. Your situation is not new. Your reluctance to confront your wife is not new. Your lallygagging while she embarks on her fantasy cruise is also not new.

Its time to follow the suggestions that you have nicely shot down as they are proven to SAVE marriages in many cases. You cannot pick and choose which parts you like,my friend.

You need to get tough now.

If you get a medical diagnosis and treatment options are offered/explained ... do you complain about how difficult they are?
I do.
I was recently in hospital for a long time.
But, guess what, I had to make decisions based on the facts.
I could, and did, cry and feel sorry for myself, but I still had to take action and make decisions.

What plan are you in?

Ask them for track record statistics, and references.

Palm Treo 500v, Palm Treo 500w, Palm Treo 800w, Palm Treo Pro,

Does she have one of these phones?

No its a Pre Plus with WebOS. I've looked everywhere and live chatted with folks that were recommended here

If she's refusing to be transparent or do EPs, you might as well make her next date for her.

She's keeping her options open - and she wants you on the back burner.

You used the phrase 'addicted to facebook' She is addicted to her affair an I would guess addicted to admiration. Its her top EN imo and people like this need high boundaries around men (I have a high need for admiration so I made sure only my h met this need)

OK, you like the 'work on me' technique (hopefuly these counsellors have good stats) - but we are telling you to work on you. You cannot force her to do anything. Nor should you. You should simply say 'I want a safe, monogamous marriage' and if she says 'no' You say 'Good to know. Bye bye'

You can encourage her with Plan A and allow her to see the extent of her bad choice in Plan B - but ultimately the choice is hers and the plans are for you. How she responds to her h, who does not enable, is loving, has self-respect, has limits, requires proof he is not being lied to - is up to her.

If her response is

WAHHHHH - but I want my facebook and guys telling me I look hot and I want you to be ok with it because I am so hot and its NOT FAIR!

Then you really have to let her enjoy the consequence of her inability to be a married woman. You need to tell her that she WILL lose you. But that you would rather she did what you need so you could stay.

THAT is working on you. It is not working on you to look the other way while she has a bit of her crack pipe online.

If it was me, the internet would be uninstalled by the time she got home.

And as for the poly, there are no planes where you live? or trains?

You could wait for the addict to tell you were she keeps her stash, the ful truth about it and how you could end her addiction but I think you are just going to have to make it happen.

Make it happen!

This is from the false recovery thread - which I suggest you read...

But until he gets pissed off enough to quit letting her decide how his life and his family's life is going to be, she'll keep on going.

Not much to add, MrAmazed, except that I've been down your road before. Looking back, I would have followed the advice that you've gotten from those here.

If you want the phone records, you GET the phone records. You tell her to give you the password. You're paying for the phone, too, right? You're married. It's called joint property and you have every freaking right to see those phone bills.

If you want her off facebook, you tell her to get off facebook.

If she doesn't want to drive to get a polygraph (or give you the phone records or close facebook), tell her to drive her butt to the courthouse and file for a divorce because you sure as hell aren't living like this anymore.

Ask her if she's ok with only seeing her kids 50% of the time? Is she ok with another woman raising them? What are you supposed to tell them when they wake up screaming in the middle of the night asking where's mommy?

Buddy, you've got to get a fire up your rear and I mean that in a nice way. None of us here are posting to degrade or insult you. We're doing it because we see the train coming and want you to get the heck out of the way.

I think that's where the OP is stuck--he's afraid to push too hard lest she leave. But to go forward with this, he'll have to be open to her leaving as a result.

If you will send your zip code to JustUss I may be able to help you. JustUss can send the zip code to me. Up to you. Only if you're comfortable.

I found one for a poster in Singapore. I can't imagine you're much farther out than that.

All great advice Northwoods. I'm starting to lean... I cannot take it anymore and I am getting Pissed. Funny last night as I prayed for us with her in bed, she thanked me for being so patient with her. It is like a roller coaster ride.

BTW she didn't like my FB status Proverbs 26:11 "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly" She probably thinks it about her, but really its about me. Her comment "whatever."

Sadly, it's probably a ploy to keep you in line and sounds familiar. I'm sure I heard something like that before, and many others would probably say the same thing.

BUT, I would say that you've got a shot at turning this mess around because, really, she would have already left if she wanted to.


Your quote is funny, though her response reminds me of someone that plays nice if you're complacent but turns to sarcasm or lashes out if something negative/truthful is brought up.

Do you feel like you're walking on eggshells over there?

...and you don't want to get LOUD and abusive when you tell her things. Just be matter-of-fact and believe in what you say. In case you missed it, I'll repost what Melody posted earlier. I suggest you have this conversation with your wife.


When she tries to deflect and start an argument, just tell her that you won't let her drag you into an argument about this, that you're sorry she's upset but this is what she'll have to do to make you stay in this marriage.

Have a time period in mind for her making a decision. She'll do everything she can, probably, to avoid making a commitment.

What you do after that time period expires, be it one minute or one day, is up to you.

Exactly - truth hurts - I keep telling her.

Good. But remember angry outbursts are as bad as enabling. YOu have to strike a balance using carrot AND stick. You stay cool - and firm on your boundaries.



I dont like her attitude at all.

I think you have a rough ride ahead and while its not impossible, she will need a lot of tough love to get out the fog. She may decide to stay lost and you will have to leave her to it if it comes to that. Its her life and she can mess it up in any way she chooses. But she doesnt get to mess up yours, you see?

I find that very hard to believe. In most small towns and cities there are polygraph experts. Whereabouts do you live?

Why don't you contact your local police department or a local attorney? Don't make someone a priority who sees you as an option.
Her actions indicate that she has very little respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.

Pepper - I didn't intend on sending her here. I want to copy the post and send it in an email (removing MB name from it) as I think she may realize that she is not alone and that there is a way out - Just a thought... I would never send her here right now.

MrAmazed -

You cannot educate her out of her affair.
You have an agenda in this situation.
She will instantly recognize that you are providing this information for YOUR interests.
She would consider it manipulative and controlling.
Bad Bad Bad idea.

The information is good -- but you cannot be the source for it.

After exposure, it could possibly be delivered from one of her respected sources like her mother....

Did you?

OK - help me understand something: Isn't it, as some have advised here, demanding and controlling to request that she stop using FB, reveal all passwords and chat accounts, cell phone bill access etc.? I think she would consider that controlling and manipulative too. Or am I looking at that from the wrong perspective?

YES

No, I don't think it is.

You're merely stating that you require an honest relationship in order to stay married.

Would you think it demanding or controlling if you asked her not to cheat on you?

You're overthinking this and it looks like you're concerned that she'll leave if you push too hard (I think we've all done that) . She'll very likely leave if you do nothing, so, really, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain here.

I'll add that, yes, she'll accuse you of being controlling and manipulative when you ask for the passwords, etc. She'll be so convincing that you may start doubting what you just did and be tempted to back off.

Why will she get upset? Because it makes it harder to cheat on you, it's an inconvenience. If she can throw a big enough fit and threaten you with leaving, she's hoping you'll drop it and leave everything alone. You might even see tears instead--how could you be so mean to me!?!

It'll be up to you to decide what to do next, but you should just stress that you're not going to let her pull you into a fight and that these are the conditions that she must meet for you staying married to her.

Put the onus on her so that she understands that it is her actions and decisions that determine whether you'll stay in the marriage or not.

Sometimes (more often than not) the waywards who are happily having an affair are so focused on getting their "fix" that they ignore mild reminders that their behavior is wrong/painful/sinful/etc.

The adulterer may require REAL & SUSTAINED PAIN in the way of a wake up call.

The worse the pain (face in the gutter) the greater chance they will decide to turn their life around.

If your WW feels no pain/consequences from her affair, she will not stop. She has no reason to stop. She LIKES having an affair, especially a consequence-free affair.

Hence .... THE STICK of Plan A.

I think you need to understand something.

If you can't at least demand to be treated with respect, then you deserve what you get and everyone is wasting their time.

You can be her husband and she can be your wife, or you can appease her and lay down and she will not respect you and end up despising you, probably does already.

What you want to do will not work, and you will be miserable. I know from which I speak.

You have to have boundaries. You are correct, she doesn't have to respect them. Then the ball is in your court. You can pretend that they weren't really boundaries, you can move them to appease her, our you can enforce the consequences that you have laid out.

Where you end up is up to you. If you want to stay like it is now, then do it.

Your current plan = don't piss WW off

Your plan should be ~~~~> stop the affair come hell or high water

There are 2 elements that you are talking about her.

Killing the Affair.
Recovering the Marriage.

During your Kill the Affair phase, you will be implementing a plan. Part of the plan is the Plan A, Carrot/Stick, along with exposure and requesting her to end the affair and recover the marriage. You will be asking her to end the affair, and making it clear that you are hurt - and that this situation cannot continue.

If she does not end the affair, you will go to Plan B -- ending all daily communication and contact with your wife. This takes planning and proper execution.

If she does agree to end the affair, that is when you will request things like closing facebook, and she would AGREE to be transparent and build your trust.

Also, during your "kill the affair" phase, you are NOT sharing your strategies with her or making demands of her.

There is no point in demanding her passwords - because she will laugh at you and walk out the door to see her lover.

During this phase you should SECRETLY obtain her passwords and spy to know the status of her affair, and her actions and plans.
You need to know if she really has a business trip, or if its a cover story to go out of town with OM.

MrA, it makes you look foolish to make demands that you are not prepared to back up with actions. You cannot issue ultimatums if you're not prepared to follow through with your threats.
Women do not respect men that they can walk all over.

Do you work also? How much difference is there in your incomes? Does she make double?

Affairs are conducted in secret. You have to eliminate all secrecy in your marriage if you want any hope of recovering it. After killing the affair, the two of you need to establish extraordinary precautions to ensure that the A doesn't resume. Closing all avenues of past contact is one of the ways that is done. Secrecy needs to end.

So no. It's not controlling or manipulative to put measures in place to protect your M. It's playing russian roulette if you don't.

If your WW does not agree to sharing all passwords, etc, with you, and balks at shutting down her FB, there's a problem. Truly remorseful waywards often beg their spouse to check on them. My H fell all over himself, giving me all of his passwords and shutting down his FB account.

If she just can't make it through the day without blogging about her day with all of her FB friends, shut down her account and open up a new one for BOTH of you. Put a pic of BOTH of you, in a warm embrace, on your profile picture.

She makes about $25k to $30k more than I do.

Is it worth that to you to eat dirt?

MrAmazed, the irony of your first post on this website just hit me. How ironic that you, whose marriage is a wreck, signed up to tell people, who have saved their marriages that their snooping was not "marriage building." Did that irony ever occur to you?

It�s not controlling to have self respect. It�s the ultimate form of disrespect to have your WW engaged in an affair.

SHE is the one that has violated your trust. So if she asks if you trust her, the answer is simple: No.

She�ll say that you are violating her privacy. There�s a difference between privacy and secrecy. Secrecy is doing something you don�t want others to find out about. Privacy is closing the door when you use the restroom.

One thing is damaging to a marriage. The other is not.

But I�ll agree that demanding these things is pointless with a wayward.

Get the passwords by using a keylogger and start snooping. Snooping is self preservation.

Look, she�s lying. She�s had sex with this guy and I�d bet a year salary on it. Who the heck meets up, at our age, to just talk and hang out? What would you tell a buddy going through your situation?

Spy!

From the standpoint of building a case for proof for exposure I understand that now. From a mental standpoint, it sucks. Fighting dishonesty with dishonesty is what it feels like.

Sure she would, shes a cheater who wants freedom to cheat. She also wants the freedom to ignore you and what you want.

It is not demanding to ask for an end to all secrecy. Our advice is not actually that you put a gun to her head, but see whether she will willingly do it.

If she will, shes serious and you can class her as worth keeping.

If not you should get your heart out of there before she stomps on it some more.

Tell her 'this is what it will take to keep me in the marriage' but stress that it is her choice whether or not to accept recovery.

Look at it this way - Is it any less controlling and demanding of her to insist she continues actions that hurt you and risk your marriage? And say that you just have to put up with it?

Feelings are not truth. It is not dishonest to CATCH someone cheating.

What is dishonest about looking into things which are part of your marriage?

I think, like lots of very honest people, you dont like to withhold information or mislead people as to your feelings or intentions.

That is great. That is honesty.

However your wife's body has been taken over by an addict. By an alien. One who is holding a knife to her throat. It will cut her and cause pain whenever she tries to free herself.

You cannot come clean with this alien about your means to destroy it if you expect to save your wife from it.

Dont confuse the alien walking around in your wifes body with the wife you once knew.

Once you have your wife back, or once you have the information you need to hurt the alien, you will tell her and it the full truth (and everyone else via exposure) about what you are doing - Saving your marriage. So the wife inside the alien will have the full truth about what kind of husband you are (one who fights for his love!).

P.S. Loving women (especially trapped ones) LOVE this. Alien waywards do not.

Dishonesty is what the alien is doing online and with OM - because she has no intention of telling you the truth now or ever.

But maybe your wife will if we can free her.

At MB we place a high value on being open and honest.
It is one of the cornerstones of this program.
And it is how you BUILD a great marriage.

But right now you are not in a true marriage -- you are in a FIGHT for your marriage. And you need to use tactics that might not make sense to you. You need to study our "art of war" threads. Because you need to man-up and fight this.

Your wife has already used some of her tactics to shut you down.
You back off at the first sign of her anger -- so she knows she just needs to get pissed off about you looking at her phone to make you stop. She'll just get more and more secretive. And more and more addicted.

Yes to this. I should have been clearer on my previous post - don't ask her for any passwords, etc, right now. Get your snooping tools in place and get those yourself.

You can get all of her codes, passwords, etc, from her after she agrees to end all contact with OM and commits to staying in the M.

And you NEVER divulge your snooping tools! Even after you've begun recovery.

Mr Amazed,

You have a great place to start to save your marriage, this site gives you a controlled plan that works, finding out the affair is 1st, don't confront come back for the next step......
If you want to save your marriage you have to do what you must, would you rather just let her go on and fall in love with her OM and leave you.......
The key is staying in control and not acting in haste.......
We have all been there before you, scared like you are, feeling the same way you are.
It's hard to do the steps but it works and you usually end up with a better marriage.........
Backbone, calmness, and a good plan is what will get you what you want.......

UPDATE: HAD A TALK AFTER CAUGHT LOOKING IN HER PHONE
Last night I got up around 1am to snoop her phone and gather info. Found msgs to OM on email back on 10/1 and 10/2 saying to HIM "you made ur choice" and "I can't take it anymore". Then I saw text to her she hadn't read yet. Sounded like she was having txt to him earlier in day and asking where she was etc. she obviously didn't stop as the following txts were "i know why ur not answering, im trying sooo hard to understd but i dont, when u get that car back in gear then, and only then call me" " How does it make u feel next to him? Im done with this drama. It is killing me. Baby I love you but I got to go."

Worse yet I found chats from a different guy. He wanted to have her stop by and see him...talked about working out and running and said he might get in shape with a couple hrs with her BIG SMILE. She responded by saying "haha maybe what are your work hours". I got this guys phone # and email but i looked and no FB that I can find.

Then I seen some msgs from a site called TAGGED. A social site that looks like a hook-up type of thing but it is dormant as she hasn't had much activity at all on it. She nvr logged out so the link in email took me to her acct. Nothing in there other than guys saying "hey" "your cute wanna chat" etc.

She then woke up and caught me snoopin... At that point I'd had it. From 2am on I told her very calmly if she wanted any part of saving the marriage she must be:
1. Open Honest and transparent - No more secret chatting, pswds etc.
2. I was doing the work to save the marriage, she had to show me she wanted this,
3. I am only interested in saving the marriage
4. She has already had 6mos to figure this out and my heart was not going to take it for much longer. I have released her to God knowing I'll be OK whatever happens.
5. I must do whatever it takes to save my family - especially the children.
6. She tell me the truth about her affairs and if she had sex (again I was asking)as it was not only my health on the line but maybe even the children. She was upset "for the last time no! Don't you think I know that?" And that she could count on one hand the # of times she saw him.

Later she started talking if I wanted divorce & I told her I would only talk about rebuilding marriage. Divorce would be for the lawyers to talk about and I would use all means necessary to get full custody of the kids. At this point she went bezerk to which I said, "You weren't very loving to them when you made your choice". "You must understand that I want them raised with the utmost morals and you have not depicted that by your choice." "It is a much easier route to try to figure out why u r not in love with me any more than to go through the big D."

She started blaming me about how we used to argue and bicker alot and that I have fault for this, which I then pointed out that #1 it was her choice that caused this all to happen and #2 she never once approached me to ask for prof help or pastoring etc. It was all out of left field for me.

Well she got dressed hopped in her car and sat there for a while. I went out after 10min and prayed for her safety and clarity and that she would have her heart return to God.

She was gone about 1hr. Came back and we talked a little more. She said she was sorry for everything that she did. She cuddled me and we eventually had sex. I probably shouldn't have but it is hard to control at this point as I do still very much love her.

I know I am not following a Plan very well as it just spontaneously happened when she caught me snooping. I only can get on here at work hours and I am buried right now so I need to end and do my job. Also leaves me little time to study. Our home internet is crappy as we don't have Hi speed...only a mobile hotspot from our fones which has crap reception and slow speeds. And I know I have so much to read here.

Thanks for any thoughts on a Plan from here. Hope I didnt screw stuff up too bad

I thought I would post her story here that she wrote on this website that I found from her emails back this spring. Just for further insight about her. Its pretty candid.

WW Story below...

Ok - So here I go. I am 37 years old and very active. I work full time, training for a marathon and raising four beautiful girls. I was married once before and my 2 older girls are from that previous relationship - which ended due to many factors but one of the main reasons is my ex cheating on me with other women, go figure! So I picked up the pieces of my life and ran into a man that I graduated high school with and even had a little fling with back when were 16! At the current time I was living in another state and had traveled home for a weekend to visit family when him and I met back up. I was perfectly happy living my single life (and sometimes today I think why didn't I just stay that way?!?!) Well we ended up starting a relationship and I was able to move back to my hometown I found a great job etc. We married in 2004, 2 more girls later we are in present time 2011. We go through our lives and do the same thing day after day etc. My husband and I get along well we enjoy a lot of the same interests and to be quite honest he is a great man as a husband (we have had our fights etc.) and a great father. For about two years now I have had this feeling of emptiness - I can't explain it...is it me not being in love, is it my same ol' same ol' life etc.? Anyway I have always been the one that has said if you have an affair it is because YOU WANTED it to happen and YOU WERE LOOKING. Well I stand corrected that is not true at ALL! About 3 months ago I received a message on FB from one of my friends - known him from around town and he is friends with a lot of my friends etc. were not neccesarily in the same social ring but we know of each other. He sent me a note and said..."you are so beautiful". I was a little shocked and really didn't know what to say at first - well you get all warm and fuzzy and say wow what a wonderful thing to say. I responded with well when your on the way down to 40 any compliments are accepted. We then just started talking...not neccesarily sexually or romantically, just talking. He has 3 boys - I have 4 girls and just stuff. He wants to start getting in better shape, I am training for a marathon "just stuff" well we made a quick friendship and we started talking via text or email etc. Well there was a weekend and my girls were out of town and he came over to visit me and well that is when everything started...and it has been going ever since. He is not married. He tells me he is in love with me and wants to be with me...but fyi I am married. I feel so much love and compassion for this man, he is on my mind all the time...which is so unfair to my family. I am still doing my motherly/wifely duties...but you can only imagine. I am meeting him before work on my day off we spend it together etc. I am at a point contemplating divorcing my husband...I am so confused and scared that my family, my children, my friends will hate me if I pursue this...but I feel that I could be so happy with him...or is it just lust? Is is so new that I am crazy? How many other women have felt this way? On top of all this my husband has found out and he is doing everything in his power to "save us" from praying and pushing me to attend this class at our church for struggling married couples etc. I don't think I want it...is it wrong to feel that way? I think about the home we have built etc. I have a great job and will have no problem supporting myself and my girls - as I have thought about the fact that I will more than likely be the one paying alimony etc. since I make more money than my husband does. I just have so much in my mind and then I have my affair telling me sweet nothings..and we just fit so well together...but than I think...I thought that once with my husband too..then I am right back to where I started from! Please give me your feedback...and be brutally honest...I need it...I need someone to talk to...no one knows about this but my husband, my affair and myself..not even my BF of many years she has no clue!!!

Two things I see that you should focus on:

1. demand that she end her affairs

2. TODAY - expose her affairs to everyone, her parents, your parents, friends, close family and most especially children. If any of these OM are married, expose to their wives. Do this WITHOUT WARNING.

Don't argue with her anymore. Stop preaching to her and very calmly expose her affairs and DEMAND she end ALL contact with these men. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so bringing this out into the light of day will ruin the fantasy and motivate her to end her affairs.

Ask all the adults [friend/family] to speak to her. Ask them to use their influence to persuade her to end her affairs.

Good job on snooping! The only thing more I would recommend is that you try and get a GPS on her car and install spyware on her phone.

Disgusting .......

Thats a big 10-4 !!! FOGGY?

You forgot NUMBER ONE: END YOUR AFFAIR!!

You have no marriage unless she ends her affair. You should NOT tolerate her affair.

Pretty sure I said that. I just didnt list. I put it like this... " I will no longer put up with your affair...I do NOT deserve it... I am worthy of being loved...so this has to stop"

Good!! Here is the message you need to send to the affairees:

I am planning on the GPS but I cannot find spyware for her phone as we discussed previously. Have tried all recommended here plus tons of other sites... GRRR. Need to get her Android or Iphone as there are plenty out there for those Operating Systems.

ROFL Melody, that is really funny!

She has been texting me this morning... started out saying that she loved making love this morning to me. No one else could ever please her more in bed.

Sending pics of 4yr DD brushing hair and getting ready and asking to eat lunch with me.

Now I wonder is this just to pacify me? I know I know - expose to kill it. My head is spinning circles. o_0

Does WW carry some sort of supply bag with her to work? A backpack perhaps?
Can you get your hands on it and sew a GPS into the lining?

LINK to a "mini" GPS with a 8 week battery life

MrAmazed --

Start with exposure.
You can always require that she get a new phone and phone number as part of your requirements (that will be one that you hand her with software loaded!)

I think your talk with her hit all the major points.
If she brings up seperating -- don't buy it! All she's trying to accomplish is time apart to continue the affair.

Its either fix the marriage, or she can leave.
You might want to dispel any notions she's developing about being friendly with you after divorcing you. Let her know that won't happen.

Expose. Now. I hesitated too...but when I did -- it made ALL of the difference. Nothing mattered until exposure was done.

It's the only way to have a chance of saving your marriage, your family.

And, as indiegirl stated perviously, the woman inside the alien...the addict waiting to be saved, will look back and be blessed -- because she will know -- that you loved her enough, cared for her enough, to FIGHT for her, your marriage...and she'll thank you, her hero, for pulling her back from the cliff...

God Bless.

MrA --

Realize that she is trying to pacify you right now.
Being friendly, flirty, etc.

Thinking she can just smooth things over.

But she IS STILL HAVING AN AFFAIR.

Expose it to kill it.

And I second what Lexxxy is saying...only AFTER exposure did I move on to the requirements for recovery -- the EPs.

Made sure to emphasize we were either married, or we were not...no separating, no 'being friends' post divorce....it was either NC for life, meet my ENs or I was gone.

Talking to her in the fog was pointless...exposure snaps them out of it, and usually rather quickly.

For emphasis.

LISTEN to helpfordad and to Lexxxy.

...and I did this just this past March. Can you believe I could've done this in December???

It's like night and day compared to 7 months ago....but I let it go for 3 months...for fear? to pacify her?

Knowing we could be 10 months into recovery rather than 7 is something I regret...especially when my W THANKS ME for saving her, for getting her head out of her a--. I feel bad that I didn't do it sooner, like I let her down, our marriage down.

And, frankly, my exposure wasn't nuclear, but targeted....and seeing what THAT effect has been, I can only imagine the results if I had gone full blast.

Either way, its true -- shedding light on the affair will kill it...as Dr. Harley says, mahybe not instantly, but it will 'hasten its death'...as Susie or GloveOil, I think, usually points out -- if the affair is so damn 'right', then why aren't they shouting about it from the rooftops???

Expose this and get it started on its demise...

Please listen to this advice. Trying to reason with an addicted wayward is like trying to reason with a falling down drunk. Exposure will sober her up REAL DAMN QUICK.

What about the plan? Please don't get distracted with this kind of stuff.

The alien will do anything to avoid going through the one thing that will kill it and drive it out of your wife.

The wayward in her is sensing a threat to the status quo and is responding to eliminate that threat. She's playing you. Crafty little wayward, that one. And very typical.

MA, your current situation is so similar to HFD's in the time just before the exposure-bomb went off in his WW's life, it's uncanny. Affair "kinda" halted; WW dithering about self-admitting and ending her waywardness and re-committing to her family; BH not trusting the advice here, or (Sorry, HFD!) not having the grit, to take the necessary step to get on the path to recovery.

Then.......BOOOOM!

All the excuses and deterrents disappeared!

I'd lay it out for WW in the following manner: She must be willing to send an NCL; commit to counselling with a practitioner of YOUR choosing; and engage in following the MB plan, or you will take (unnamed) serious actions to end her indecisiveness.

(And, seriously, there are few BHs who have as unimpeachable evidence of her affair for their exposure packages as you do!)

No offense, NG.

Most of it was the trauma of the A itself...and just the absolute disbelief that exposing, rather than keeping it a 'personal matter', would actually work.

Quite the opposite. It's clear that exposure may not end the affair immediately, but it will certainly speed up the timeline of its demise, and it will end.

Or, as I have learned first hand:

"Exposure will not end the marriage, but it will end the affair".

Thanks.

Oh, and let me add:

Even now, my W will admit she can't believe the things she believed in the fog -- let's be firends with OM, the kids will be fine, the divorce will be amicable, etc. -- and says looking back she knows what was necessary to do and even apologized for doing some 'kicking and screaming' about what was needed to recover the marriage while the fog was still present.

None of this happens without casting light on the affair...even the APs know the only real oxygen of the (fantasy) affair is secrecy...

Thanks.

Just had lunch with WW and DD4. It was a good spirited talk. We did talk about NC ever again with OM and she said she would, that she just has to ignore him etc. I asked if she texted him back last nite and if so what she said. She said she did and that she did not want to sacrifice her daughters and the turmoil it would cause. BINGO. She still upset about full custody comment. Says she would never deny her children of me if it was other way around and she'd fight tooth and nail not to let it happen. I stuck to my guns and told her it was the most immoral act against our marriage/family, and I would like not to go that path, but she needed to commit to complete transparency and rebuilding the marriage. She asked what transparency meant to me and I said "you know what you need to do, NO SECRECY in marriage. - NOTHING"

What disturbed me was that she said she cannot just turn the switch off for her feelings for OM and that she knows that I would always question her in everything she does. I told her that it will be a process and would take work, but not as much as the other path! This also makes me think that there will always be that feeling unless I NUKE IT...but I am sweating freaking bullets thinking about the short term ramifications. Cause when we parted she gave me a big hug and said "I do really love you, I do". Like u guys keep telling me though...she's feels a threat to the status quo. This is sooo dam hard.

Whats next is how I react to her reaction...I am clueless. I am sure she will say " HOW COULD YOU, YOU BLEW IT NOW, I SAID I WAS GONNA TRY WITH YOU BUT NOW U PISSED ME OFF!!!" Ugh my gut...

Yep.

That's what my W said as well...read my posts!!! And she actually asked me: "how is telling the world I'm a sxxt taking care of me and our marriage?"

And, when she went to run to the people I exposed to to tell them the bad man I was for fighting for my family and marriage, you know what they said?

"If you don't like the consequences, you shouldn't have had an affair. BH is doing NOTHING wrong in defending his family/marriage. If you don't like it -- LEAVE!"

No one can defend an affair....when their world is crumbling around them...when the addiction is ended...when the fog begins to lift...when the full weight of the damage they've caused hits them...they see the only one still left standing there for them is their BS.

Oh, and this lasted all of 1 weekend....and then she was done. Time to get off the fence, which she did rather quickly...

It's not a matter of 'ignoring' him at all! 'Ignoring' him means he's still around to be ignored.

All methods of contact must end. No calls, texts, emails or seeing each other. Even from across the street.

I don't understand what she means by just 'ignoring' him.

Ignore this. She's foggy. Foggy waywards say stuff like this.
Yeah, she'll probably blow a gasket. They often do. She'll eventually wind down, though. You need to stay calm in the face of her fury. Remember this phrase and use it: "I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage." And repeat this one to yourself often: Your marriage can survive her temporary anger. It cannot survive an ongoing affair.

This is not a victory for you MrA.
Its continuing the secrecy. Its continuing the lies.

She needs to write a letter like the one we have here.
One that states there will be no further contact EVER between them. And that she is choosing YOU and your marriage over him.

The text she just sent him might be cooling things off, but her reason is that she's going to martyr herself for her children. She's not sending OM the clear message that she is going to be with her husband. Or that the affair was WRONG.



You should be pushing her for a No Contact letter, not asking her if she's texted her lover lately...

Thanks everyone. You know how to make it all reasonable. She is going out tonight with a bunch of friends in her industry (all girls - seen FB posts) and she is planning on being home early as she has to drive 4hr to my DD15 athletic event.

Since we departed lunch she is texting me about times we made love during the early years in crazy spots. Like she said earlier, she was getting the tinglies thinking about this morning when we made love. Ugh - is she feeling the spark or what here? Its all happening so fast.

No MrA -- she's not. She is trying to distract you with sex.

She's trying to make sure you make no more demands or requests of her. Maybe you'll just forget all about this little problem. Then she can pretend it never happened. (while she gets sneakier about covering her tracks...)

That's one cool way the alien can keep you from doing the one thing that will destroy it.

Don't expect any progress until you follow the plan, okay?

Any chance you can spy on her while she's out tonight? It would be way easy for OM to just 'happen' to show up there. Take your camera.

Mr Amazed....

FYI

Lexxxy was a WW back in the Jurassic period.
It will pay you tons of dividends to LISTEN TO HER.
No one knows the WW mind better than Lexxxy.

This is a distraction and I wonder if you are reading our posts? What happened to exposure? Were you interested in working on saving your marriage?

Have you exposed the affair yet?

She is going out tonight to meet her OM. She is just going to be sneakier now.

You need to stop the distractions and stick to the plan if you want to save your marriage. EXPOSE the affair TODAY. While she is out catting around with her lover.



Offer her a cookie or a pop. Of course she will say that. Don't let it bother you one bit.

Please stick to the plan and expose this affair. I would also find that losers facebook page and send his family and friends a PM telling them he is doing a married woman.

I'm with kids - she is going out with BF and coming back with her to our place where BF is staying for the conference. She should be safe as BF doesn't know either.

This would be a great opportunity to tell the BF. But I suspect she does know or your wife is using her for cover.

And I am really disappointed that you agreed to her going out. That doesn't help your marriage one bit.

Are you reading our posts?

How do you know BF doesn't know?? Please don't say you got that from your lying wayward???

She's telling you that she might "accidentally" contact OM(s) and that you should be ok with it because she gave you a head's up about how "weak and fragile" she is. In her last statement she actually blames *you* for not trusting her. It's a setup and makes my head hurt.

Who is this second OM talking about working out? You need to ID his wife/family/friends and add them to the exposure list.

If I were you, I'd have no hesitation giving OM#1 and #2 a call telling them to eff off. You have their numbers.

This is you avoiding following the plan, you know?

What was her posting name, MrA?

Get a stitter and just "happen" to show up. I would bet money that I dont have that she is meeting him to figure out how to go farther underground. BF's will do anything for there friend if they think it will make them happy.

You are making half-a$$ed attempts here at salvaging whats left of your marriage. My wife 5 months post dday still wouldnt even suggest that she go out with a bunch of friends without me. I know of her every move even when I go 4 hours away for business and come home late. I set up precautions and she follows them. Or this marriage is doomed. She wants our marriage to survive. Yours hasnt decided yet.

You still have exposed her affair. You havent set up an EP so she cant have any chance of continuing her affair.

I hope she has a good time with OM tonight because you have made it clear its OK with you if she lives that independent lifestyle.

Are you reading the posts that people having been putting up all week? You wife is severely fogged out with her affair and you are pu$$y-footing here. When Mr. OM is putting his moves on tonight you'll be on here making excuses. Time is short.

It is painful to watch this..

Very much so, I remember these days like it was yesterday and would not wish them on my worst enemy.

MrA, please listen and expose. I didnt becuase I didnt know about MB at the time and the knife of the A left very visable scares.

Two things I see that you should focus on:

1. demand that she end her affairs

2. TODAY - expose her affairs to everyone, her parents, your parents, friends, close family and most especially children. If any of these OM are married, expose to their wives. Do this WITHOUT WARNING.

Don't argue with her anymore. Stop preaching to her and very calmly expose her affairs and DEMAND she end ALL contact with these men. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so bringing this out into the light of day will ruin the fantasy and motivate her to end her affairs.

Ask all the adults [friend/family] to speak to her. Ask them to use their influence to persuade her to end her affairs.

Good job on snooping! The only thing more I would recommend is that you try and get a GPS on her car and install spyware on her phone.

Please be an ACTION MAN if you want to save your marriage. Hope is not a plan.

I think MrA only posts from work. So he probably won't see any of this until after the weekend.

Prediction:
MrA will dabble with exposure this weekend... maybe by telling WW's BF.
WW will go ballistic, and MrA will be convinced that exposing is the worst idea ever!
WW was HAPPY, and FLIRTING with him before that. Now she's angry and withdrawn, and threatening divorce.
WW will begin her public image campaign and get the story out about "problems in the marriage" WW will get to all of the exposure targets first, and give her version of the story.
MrA will be disarmed. WW will pull the 4 daughters close to her and shut MrA out.

Monday, MrA will come back here and tell us that he was asked to move out of his house.

I know we see that exact thing over and over again on here but I hope you are wrong. Maybe he is on the West Coast and still at work.

Yes, it is painful.

Depending on the time zone, WW is about now likely getting gussied up for:

-Girls night out (riiiggghttttt...),
-"Closure" last meeting with OM (A grows stronger),
-"I just can't do this" meeting with OM (A grows stronger),
-"GoodbyeandIwishthingsweredifferentonelastkiss" meeting (A grows stronger).

Just add a few cocktails for the perfect Friday night for a WW and OM oh-so-sadly trying to part ways nicely.

While H is home with the kids.

You may as well load "I Will Always Love You" by Whitney on her iPod to make it a perfect night for them.

Very sad to watch.

Agree 100%. As I have said before, trickle exposure is worse than no exposure because it just pisses off the WS enough to come after the BS with a vengence but not enough to make any difference. It is enough to piss off, but not enough to kill. It is like taking a pea shooter to a gun fight. You just end up SHOT.

Luvs and Lexxy,

I don't post much, but was typing as you were posting. Hopefully he'll see this before "Girls Night Out". Ugh.

1) Get a Sitter
2) Put on your Camo gear
3) Strap your rifle to your back
4) Strap your pistol on your thigh
5) Put some Dirt in your Hair

Go to the whereever they are going - wait for them to leave, while engine is still running; get out of your vehicle

"Oh Wifey - Oh Wifey - I just got here. You forgot your sweater. I realized when I was out target practicing it was quite chilly tonight. I thought of my poor wifey, and how you and BF must be as nippy as I am (granted I am loaded with my gun gear). Here Sweety, your sweater, may I get a kiss goodnight? Will see you two girls at home in a few minutes. Can't wait to warm up with you tonight! Love you ... "

Make your intentions well known ... when you get back home start full exposure.

Do something.

He probably will later.

Right now, he's probably hoping that this kind of fixed itself since she's being nicer and he doesn't want to risk "ruining a good thing" or whatever happy face his WW has put on for the moment.

But she'll get back with OM#1 or OM#2 and, when he finds out, then he'll probably be more inclined to push the envelope.

I tend to believe exposure out of vindictiveness is counter-productive. In this case, you have suffered enough and you have let this go on too long. At some point, you are just as responsible as your WW to enable the A and allow the ultimate destruction of your M.

You have to take action, which in this case should be exposure. Tell your family and friends what has been going on. You even have her post admiting to her ongoing A for many months now. She has been sitting on the fence all this time because you have failed to take any drastic action. Your understanding of Christian doctrine is very much misleading. Blind forgiveness does not solve problem and it actually brings about worse outcome. It is an irresponsible way of dealing with things, and it is nothing more than just an excuse to dodge the work required to solve the problem at its core. It's a copout and cowardly. You must fight for the kids. No matter what action you take, there will be a risk of D. The thing is not taking any action is much worse than taking an action, and the past track record simply proves it.

It's obvious the A has been a full blown PA for some time,and it may have stopped temporarily, but like her own statement of not being able to "turn off her feelings like a switch", this A is still ongoing, either physically or emotionally.

Either you demand D with real intent or at least expose this A to "help" her stop this addiction. Please Man Up !!!

Ok everyone I'm going nuclear today...

got on verizon and she made her pswd the same as b4 so I was in!!!!!!!!!!! dwnld all past months voice and text msgs Yes you all are right stupid me.

Last nites records indicate she did go out with girls but constantly txt OM. She left early from the girlz with excuse of leaving early this a.m. to go to DD15 swim meet. constant communication stopped about @ 11:11pm and resumed 12:30am, she arrived home at 12:43am. just enough time to drive home from his house GRRR... should of went recon like you said.

Oh and this morning she txt him as soon as she left house and also talked to him. I waited a few minutes to try calling got bill info saw her comm with OM then tried calling... NO ANSWER really? Im an IDIOT.

I've had enough and you all have been rite. I'm killing it today. Now i just need to find sample message and send it out.

Good for you! Make sure you stay calm and loving! You do this because you love your wife, and your children.

And the darn vets here are always right, aren't they!

Need a good sample message. I remember seeing one from Melody or Pepper but I don't know where.... HELP!

MrAmazed,
I am glad you came to your senses it is the only way the people who have been helping you have helped many others to break up the affairs with a good solid plan of attach, now stay on board and listen to them........
Don't make any rash moves come back a lot and get advice as to how to proceed.
Remember she is no longer the woman you married and you are going to see a crazed out version of that one that will lie and blame shift and do whatever she has to so she can keep her OM.
You know that isn't going to happen, once reality hits fantasy you can sit back and watch the show...........she will threaten you with anything and everything.......be prepared, don't get into shouting matches, just keep saying I will do what I have to do to save this marriage and you .........that you love her and when she decides to give up the OM for life you will speak to her about what the next steps will be to recover the marriage, you have to look at like she can't take care of things right now, you have to carry her and be strong for both of you right now...........be the hero.........be calm and act lovingly and respectfully, she won't understand how you can be still in he corner, it will show her true love, these things are important when she finally comes out of the fog......
You are not an idiot you are just a man that loves and trusted his wife, we all did...........
None of this is your fault, she made the decision to have the affair, only her, nothing you did, the state of your marriage none of that is enough reason for her to break your marriage vow......
Come back here and run the letters through the experts, they will help you with each step and they will make sure you get the most effective plan......
Don't tell any of this or about this site.....this is your haven right now......and your life line........you have many friends here with an enormous amount of information and resources for you.............It is a safe and life saving place.....if you follow the plan you have a great chance at saving your marriage.........
good luck and stay calm.........
there is no rush just put together a great plan first........
jessi

How are you exposing? Phone calls? Emails? In person? FaceBook?

Whatever it takes. Right now I have email started. FB private Msg. Is the letter the same to the OM's contacts or different?

Here's a sample for Facebook. Send them out one minute apart so the FB software doesn't assume you're a spammer and shuts you down.
Print off his friends page. Do all of them if there aren't too many. If he 'collects heads' and has a thousand friends you don't need to do all of them. Look for the same last name and work your way from there. Also look to see if he ID'd any of his friends as 'family'. Do those first.

Thanks Bliss

Here's for your WW's friends list:

Use those as a template for all of your methods of exposure.

I would meet with her parents in person. Are they local? Phone them if they aren't. Don't email them. Although you probably already know that.

Have you purchased Surviving an Affair yet? I think it was suggested to you earlier.

Be ready for an s-storm of epic proportions. Taking away a crackhead's drugs will get messy. As will ending her fantasy.

Do not weaken now. Your are doing this because you love her and in 1, 6, or 12 months, she'll thank you for being strong and protecting her from herself.

You calmly will say 'I love you and will do whatever is needed to save our family'. No accusations. No yelling.

Your work is really just beginning. Update us often and the veterans here will guide you through her remission pains.

Plus, she is never to go out without your a$$ sitting next to hers. She has to earn going out privileges and in my opinion she's a long way off from that.

Call up her parents, your parents, close friends and family and tell them calmly that your wife is having an affair with Joe XXX and tell them you are trying to save your marriage. Ask them to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair. Ask for their advice.

Go to the OM's facebook page, copy and paste his facebook contacts into a WORD doc. Prioritize his contacts starting with family, married friends, all other. Send them private messages and SPACE THEM OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FACEBOOK DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING.

You especially want to find and speak to his parents.

Set your children down and tell them all about the affair. Encourage them to ask their mother questions if they have any. And be sure and explain to them why adultery is immoral.

I'll ask it again, have you read SAA? Its the how to guide for people like us who want to save our marriages being invaded by a mind controlling cretan who has co-opted your wife's better judgement.

Get the book. Read the book.

Currently you are following the cretan's playbook to the 'T". And she is slipping deeper in to his corner (bed).

Dude, she knows your marriage is heading wicked fast to the dumper and she had sex with him last night night. I don't want to bring up ugly images but you actually green lighted last nights tryst. You need to know more about addiction.

Read the book.

Mr. A,
I'm so glad to see you back today. I hurt for you for what we knew was going to happen last night.

I'm really supprised she is still using her phone for this, I guess she does not know you are snooping (which is good). She will figure it out soon so when the text stop, please dont think it is instantly over. They just went to Wal-mart and got a pre-paid phone.

Expect that and be looking for it if the texts stop all the sudden.

Remember, although there is no guarantee that this exposure will result in the positive result you are hoping for. It can certainly backfire and expedite the demise of your M. However, thru this you do have a legitimate chance at ending this A and saving your M. It's like a cancer patient choosing to have surgery. Without it, he will surely die of slow agonizing death for sure, but he gets to live a year or two more. With surgery, he may die during the surgery but he does have a legit shot at real recovery this way.

As Christian, you should know the ultimate destiny of things is always in God's hand. We, however, have the responsibility to do our part praying for the outcome we desire. Your taking this action is simply doing your part in all this mess. If God is willing, he will give you the future you want, but if not, you should know to move on. Don't try to take the ownership of your future as it is not yours to make, but make sure you do what you are supposed to in each minute of this present.

Exposure does not backfire and does not cause the demise of a marriage. Exposure kills affairs, not marriages. It is a positive thing, not a negative one. Affairs, lies and enabling affairs are what kills marriages. Please stop trying to scare this man. His best chance of saving his marriage is exposure. Of course there are no 100% guarantees, but he understands that.

here

crap has hit the fan.

here is what she has txt me so far

I dont wanna be with him now I dont want u either. U know me and your councelor advice will not work with me.

I love my girls and I NEVER thought talking to OM was more important than my girls- they are my life. Consider us divorced. I have NO love for u NONE

So we need to figure out living arrangements. NOW

I do not want to see you or talk to you.

What did councel say Id be angry and then fall at you feet in love with u? I am not that type of person you know that. I have a large amt of hate for u. However I will not try to hurt you in the divorce proceedings....and yes I am keeping all my texts btwn you and I for future presentations. I want you to know I was fighting this battle in my mind...who do I love , who do I care about..Well I dont know if you got that song this morning before you set the bomb off, but that song made me realize what I was to you and vice versa...Now it means nothing and worthless in my heart. so go tell your councelor it didn;t work. Now what? Nothing. I don;t want us ever again.
END OF TXT MSGS
________________________________________________________

So now I am completely lost on how to proceed from here - i know not to talk about divorce. Only talk about rebuilding marriage. HELP ME WEATHER THIS STORM. She will be home from swim meet in about 2hr I am guessing and I need to delete this site from web history!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH and how can I Priv Msg someone here. I tried the other day and it said it was "disabled" ?????

You have to ask the mods to send the message. They dont allow PM's on here.

Stay calm and tell her you will not talk abou Divorce. You are sorry she is upset but all you did was tell the truth. You love her and want to restore your marriage but cant do it with a 3rd party involved.

MB or ML will be here in a sec to give you more advice. Dont pannic. We told you almost word for word what she would say. It is always the same.

That is great!!! She is uber mad so that means you have effectively hit the target. Be sure and COMPLETE your exposures. Tell her you will not tolerate her affair and demand she end all contact. Tell her this will lead to divorce otherwise and you will file on grounds of adultery and ask for primary custody and possession of the house.

Paint a very ugly picture!

Tell her you felt like everyone should know about her affair and are just spreading the news. Be polite but FIRM.

You are doing great!!

"So we need to figure out living arrangements. NOW"

Tell her you have nothing to figure out because you are not going anywhere.

Did you do all of your exposures? Did you tell your children about her affair? I would do all that today.

P.s. Even if you live in a state with no fault divorce they typically do take adultery into account.

And CALM DOWN! Her anger only means you inflicted a great blow to the affair.

Sounds like you sank her battleship, MrA. Nicely done!

Let me guess: She was going to work on the marriage, but that's all over now! Or how about:
Now you've done it - if you thought exposure would help you were wrong and now we're finished!

Blahblahblah. Mindless ranting of a wayward who has been exposed. Stay calm and do not allow her to bait you into an argument. Tell her that she is free to go if that is her decision. You can't stop her. HOWEVER: She is NOT TAKING YOUR CHILDREN WITH HER.

Your wifes reaction is so predictable as well as her responses, u should feel confident now that you see that shes following a script.

Dont leave your home

Dont leave your home

Dont leave your home period!

Almost word for word!!

DO NOT let her intimidate you. My wife did exactly the same thing. She told me I was nuts, psycho, deranged. She wanted out, she wanted me gone, she wanted me hurt.

And then the tonne of bricks came down on her. Her parents, her friends, her OM running the other way.

Stay calm, this is the best weapon you have. It will very likely kill this thing forever. Listen to Mel, and set the bar high.

Stand up for yourself - no talk of divorce, moving out, none of it.

Great job! Welcome to the other side of taking control of your life!

Good to hear from you, Reynolds! I'm glad you're following MrA's thread. It's good for him to hear from a formerly betrayed husband who went through something similar to his sitch and saved your M.

Heck, I'm so glad to see you posting here that I'm not even going to ridicule the way you foreigners spell "ton"!

I got exposures out best I could. OM mom, sister, 3 or 4 friends. internet sucks. phone batt almost dead. I would like to do more but am running out of time with slow internet. OM hides his friends on FB and only shows mutual friends. that sucks. OM GF was glad I called. she is getting her stuff out today. said he is extremely controlling and they have had on/off relationship for almost 2yrs. berates her son. I will not allow this man around my kids!!!

many of her BF's all children except DD15 that is with her at swim meet.

All parents know.

rite now she wants to know where other kids are at. they are at grandmas by the way. she said she expects them to be home when she gets there. If she takes, should I be prepared to call police?

Get your kids from grandma's now, so she can't get them first.

Do NOT allow those kids to leave the house. DD15 is yours, not hers, correct? No one leaves the house!

Are they at your mothers? If so, I would leave them there. Let her know she won't be taking your kids without a court order.

The OM has a girlfriend?? That is awesome!

ITA with this. My only concern is that he told WW the kids are there. MrA, will your parents refuse to allow her to take the kids if she goes there and tries to get them?

Kids are at my moms. Her mom was not happy at all and very supportive of me. I assume she doesn't want to face either parents

Amazed,

Linda Blair will be home soon with a gut full of pea soup. Be ready, and prepare yourself to stay calm, calm, calm. NO AO's...do not allow yourself to be baited. She will be (is) ready for a major fight. No, no, no.

And....DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME.

DD15 is not biologically mine. Been with me since 6 though and she is "mine" and calls me dad and her bio by his 1st name. he is a loser and lives in spain.

AO's?

Will your mom absolutely NOT let her take kids? Can they go to a movie or something? I dunno, but seems that if WW goes to pick up kids at your mom's, your mom can't stop her, am I correct?

She's going to have NOWHERE to go, tell or get support from it seems. This is a good thing. OM is likely enjoying a serene evening with his GF.

Cool! Just leave your kids there for now and tell your mom not to let her have them.

Like surfer said, prepare for Linda Blair! Just stay calm and tell her what we told you. It will blow over.

You are doing great!!

Angry Outbursts

And yes!! Bravo, sir!!!!!

Linda Blair - excuse my ignorance

Exorcist (movie) reference.

Amazed, do you have a voice recorder anywhere?

Not yet. Plannin on getting gps unit. voice recorder for car??

I would agree that it's unlikely that she'll be in a hurry to face her in-laws. Just make sure they know that she is not to take the children from their home. You never know. Waywards have been known to do some pretty wacky things.

My call: your WW will leave alone in a fury. She'll leave her DD with you because DD won't want to leave with her because DD will see that you are calm and stable, while her mother is spewing pea soup. She'll be back after she's blown out the steam. She'll still be wayward. Use the time while she's gone to make a list of requirements that she will have to meet in order to return to your home.

Make sure DD knows what's going on.

Stay the course. You're doing well.

Mr A,
great job, the anger is expected, my husband actually said to me I put his OW in danger exposing, I said I think you did that, it was all I could do to not laugh.....
he said all the things your wife is saying, and he came around and understands why the exposure had to happen, you are doing great and don't let her scare you or threaten you, just a tactic, she has to pull out the amo to fight back, she and the OW are probably fighting already......just sit back and watch her world fall apart, she needs to hit the bottom........don't bail her out.......
hugs.....jessi

This is so great. Your exposure clearly hit the mark! She even describes it as a bomb that has hit the battle of her indecision!





My, my. He sounds great. A man who surfs facebook looking for married women and is mean to his girlfriends kids.

I have high hopes that now your w is no longer easy hasslefree meat, he will drop her like a hot coal. She will then see just what his pretty words are really worth and the drug supply of admiration stops just like that.

Amazing work! You are now Mr Amazing-at exposure!

BTW,if she says 'counsel' and counsellor' any more tell her that you dont need to be told by anyone that adultery is wrong, that telling the truth is right and that YOU have always been a man who will fight for his wife and her love.

Dont let her diminish your accomplishment here. She is desparate to deny that you care enough to fight for her by blaming it on the advice of a counsellor.

YOU did a GREAT exposure. The accolades belong to you!

And I don't think you'll have any trouble keeping exorcist lady in line. Keep cool.

>>>>Waywards have been known to do some pretty wacky things<<<

If you have any recording device or VAR, I'd just have it in a pocket for the above reason.

Voice recorder is for you-- keep it with you when you talk to your WW so that, if she goes off the handle, you'll have it on tape. Just do it. There have been times where a WW goes nuts and calls the police "claiming" domestic violence.

Tell your WW that your kids are at your parents house and that they are spending the night there.

Have her parents/family called her? Check in with them, and make sure you ASK them to intervene and try to persuade her to leave the OM's. Tell them that you and your WW both value their opinions and that both of you (and the kids) need their help in this.

It's important that your WW's phone is ringing off the hook.

My FWW did the same way yours is doing. It'll blow over once they calm down and see that the truth is out there.

You're doing great, by the way. And that you got this response is good news--it means she still gives a damn.

Next time she goes batsh*t crazy with the yelling and fogbabble, just calmly say "I'm sorry that others knowing about your adultery has you so upset, but I'm not going to get in an argument with you. We can talk more when you calm down" and walk out of the room.

If you dont have a recorder handy, try your phone, most of the time they have a reminder on them. A recorder at walmart would be the best though becuase you turn it on and it starts when it hears a voice.

I think, Ms I-am-so-hot-and I have-so-many-men-and-options has gotten a really big head in the crack-house and needs taking down a peg or two.

She clearly sees herself as the belle of the ball and that this is her top weapon to keep you in line.




Absolutely. She will need to impress YOU not the other way around. If she is given a chance to be maried to you she needs to jump a very high bar in proving herself to you.

I actually think she will need more than exposure because she truly does love the admiration of other men - and she needs secrecy to fulfill this.

But exposure has been known to work on its own without any follow-up hits to the affair, so lets see.

I agree and hope that he can get others to keep the pressure on her.

Mr. A- it's imperative that you be on good terms with her family and can get them to keep trying to talk to her. Tell them you are concerned about your kids being around strange men that you don't know and that the kids don't need to see their mom like this. Ask if they agree with you on that. Ask them to contact her and tell her those things.

I will tell you thing, it has been said before, but it is the most important thing.

Do not leave your home.

A few weeks after exposure, I did. It was probably the worst mistake I made.

Based on my personal experience, if I were you I would consider filing first, asking to stay in the house. Get the jump.

Not talking to her about divorce is not the same thing and if she files and asks for relief and temporary residence, you will have to react to her. Make her react to you.

The best thing you can do is get ahead and control things while she is still scrambling. You can better control the pace and direction that way.

I guarantee she has never consider that she may have to leave and pay child support. Make her consider it.

Once again, I know from where I speak.

Exactly. She needs to know that her choices = consequences, and she's not going to be living in her home with "her" kids, and with you, Mr. A, living in some crappy apt. paying child support. Trust that this is the visual she has right now.

KNOW that right now she's thinking:

I hate Mr. A!
He's is soooo out!
I am throwing his azz out as soon as I get home after what he's done!

Reads insanely funny, doesn't it?




She needs to know, not from a hint, but a firm and calm statement that she will be leaving if anyone does. But, that she's welcome to stay.

"I guarantee she has never consider that she may have to leave and pay child support. Make her consider it.

Once again, I know from where I speak."

Re-read these words over and over. And, then repeat.

Do not leave your home!

Yes...restating.

Ditto!!

>>>> Make her react to you <<<<


Hear this!

Mr A. Wow. You are doing great. Don't worry about WW anger. It will pass.

Women LOVE a strong man with the balls to fight for his wife and family. When she gets home with that anger ... you be the the calm and strong ROCK that is fighting for his family.

Hold your head high. WW will respect you after the shock of exposure has died down.

Deep breaths.

Listen, without going into a point by point comparison, there are many similarities between my story and yours. WW's have similar backgrounds and attitudes.

You have done a bang-up job finally with exposure. Most of us are very hesitant and incredulous at first, but you came around quickly. I am glad you snooped when you did and finally got the cold water in your face you needed. Just don't let up now, you need to ruthlessly and unemotionally destroy this affair, burn it to the roots and then kill the roots, because it could come back.

I know some of the measures you are being advised to do may give you pause. You need to separate the personal from the legal. Make sure you take legal control.

I waited around, never really considered taking control. My wife eventually filed and then things were on her timetable and under her direction.

The things you have done so far, I wish I had done sooner, wish I'd found MB sooner. The things I am suggesting you do, I didn't and wish I had.

I'm divorced, get it?

My husband went bat [censored] crazy when I exposed. He is still furious, embarrassed etc. But he is home. It didn't kill the affair, but it certainly hastened its death. They never were able to be seen in public, it was an affair in the night because of exposure and it ruined any FUTURE they were dreaming up. She may be mad, crazy, hate you for months but long term it is the right thing to do. Hang in there!

I think that MrA is dealing with his WW right now. I am hoping he's listened. He's done so well so far.

Following the story, I hope he has listened, and trusts others in the trenchs also.

Yep, WW and MrA evening is likely right now.

Prayers for Mr.A to stand strong and lead.

stay strong Mr A, and listen to the vets they will get you through this

Stay strong, my brother.

Wishing you solid direction, my friend. Do not waver.

MrA -- well done!

Please remember -- when she tries to make "exposure" the crime of the century that she will "never forgive you for" just how hypocritical and ridiulous that is.
You're willing to forgive ADULTERY -- I think that ADULTERY is a much bigger deal than TELLING ABOUT ADULTERY.
Just remember who really has the right to be upset right now.
Don't buy into her victimhood.
She brought this on herself.

Let her know she is free to leave, but the rest of the family members will remain at home where they belong.

Her flame should burn out pretty quick.
After she's spewed out all her anger, she'll probably be weepy and sulky. Or sullen and silent.

She'll get over it.

Tell your kids. I know you don't want to. But they need to know whats going on. And they deserve the truth.

Thinking of you today Mr A, sending you wishes for the strength required to get through this.

Ditto !

And .....


Give OM's GF your wife's email addy and her cell number.
..... should be interesting.

Every word is exactly spot on.
FOLLOW Lexxxy advice.

OMG not good at all. wedding ring and necklace from this yrs anniv are out on the highway. she has repeated with great anger how done we are. she has no love left and there is never a chance for us. sounds many of her friends are very appalled that I brought this public and i am the biggest [censored] on earth.

She said she is filing Monday a.m. and will be seeing her lawyer. I need to do 1st from what i see posted here.

Threatened lawsuit of defamation of character cause now everyone thinks she is a "whore" .

She is extremely volatile and at times been violent to me in front of DD4 and 6 last nite. Kids are freakin out. I'm trying to remain calm and tell her not in front of kids but she just continues to say they need to know mommy does not love daddy anymore and won't ever be together. I need a voice recorder.

My personal phone was dumped into toilet as she & I struggled over it. she took it and started to read sent msgs and found where i had sent OM txts to my phone which I emailed to myself and secret account. Told her I did that to rub it in her face when she lied about contact.

My pastor friend I revealed that I was getting council about going NUCLEAR. They were friends prior to us getting married but I was very close to him and called him from beginning of whole affair. She actually called me prior as his wife called WW and warned her what i might be doing. GRRRR at me. I was just trying to get advise. She said the judge will think me nuts to expose affair cause you never hear anyone do this and how the hell is that supposed to help save the marriage and the family.

How should I handle the fact I have no legal rites to DD11 and DD15. says she should stay at house with all kids because of those dynamics. help needed here. quickly ... I am at my parents house eating after we went to church. she had no plans to go but i did. then she said she was going and taking DD4 and DD6 not me so I couldn't tell the judge she was keeping them from going to church.

How is it defamation of character for telling the TRUTH. Let her make her threats just remain calm and wait for the vets to talk you through this. You definately need a VAR that way your WW doesn't go making up lies about you hitting her or something outrageous like that.

She goes from crying eyes out and puking to extreme anger. Both of us were at the alter praying this morning...not together obviously...

btw I have our laptop at parents and my phone is non functional as a hotspot since it went in toilet last nite. Not easy to check back here today. I wanna go home and see kids but I need some answers...coaching...I feel lost and without compass right now. Hard to think strait.

MrAmazed,
Your wife is going through her own hell right now, she has to come to terms of who she is now, she knows everyone else now sees what she has decided to become as well........she can't hide behind that fantasy world right now. her Om is probably ignoring her trying to deal with his own problems.......so she is mad at you for destroying her fantasy and she is sad at the thought of f'ing up her world, her kids world and yours believe it or not.......
This stage usually only lasts for a week or so and then they calm down and see the reality of the situation, the key for you is to not lose your temper, just keep saying I love you and will do what I have to do to save our marriage and life together, do not move out.......tell her is this new life is what she wants she can go........
Let her go to her lawyer that to should give her a good look at reality, anything can be undone.......she is beside herself right now......
Think about it if it were you in her shoes, let her feel it all and don't save her right now....
Make sure the kids are protected as much as you can.....and sit tight........
Patience and letting her live through this right now is all you can do.......
Just don't leave the house, if she goes tell her you are sad that this is what she is chosing for herself.............Let her know you will be there for her when she decides to come to her senses.......

Why is she angry?
Because her adultery is no longer her dirty little secret.

CALL the cops next time she does something violent in front of the kids.

How classic.

We TOLD you she would do this.
WHY are you surprised?


Exactly as predicted.


blah blah blah


Your WW is lying & making stuff up to try & make you feel bad.


Wanna bet?
She will try to get YOU to file.
She's all bluster and rage right now.

STOP paying attention to what she says.
It's all crap right now.

Time to take any joint money and open a separate account.
Do not spend it.
Just keep her from spending it.
Time to CANCEL all jointly held credit cards.

she was talking about 50% custody and keeping me on her insurance.

STOP listening to her.
She is full of vicious CRAP at the moment.

You need to calm down, my friend. You have done the right thing and your wife is just upset that you ruined her affair. If you start acting like you did something wrong, all you are doing is handing her ammunition to use against you. Anyone who tells you that exposure is bad or that it can be used against you is GIVING YOU BAD INFORMATION. You cannot be sued for telling the truth. No judge in the world will hold it against you for telling TRUTH. But many, many judges will hold it against your wife for COMMITTING ADULTERY.

So, you need to CALM DOWN. Go get your kids and go home. Stop falling apart and TAKE CHARGE OF THIS SITUATION. Take your kids home and take charge of your family, Sir.

STOP ALLOWING YOURSELF TO BE PULLED ALL OVER THE PLACE BY A HYSTERICAL WAYWARD AND HER SILLY FRIENDS.

Go home and take charge of your family. Tell her if she wants to leave, she can leave, but she can't take the kids. And tell her you won't agree to any 50/50 setup since she is an unfit parent. You will be introducing her adultery and going for PRIMARY custody with full possession of the house. You will have the OM subpoenaed to give sworn testimony of the affair. All of their emails, texts and cell phone records will be supoenaed.

Do this calmly and firmly. She is trying to scare you and SHE HAS SUCCEEDED. You need to stop this and GET A GRIP ON YOURSELF.

You need to call the police if she is violent. If she throws anything or hits you, you have an obligation to call the police.

OMG do they ALL threaten this? Mine did. OW said she was taking legal action too. However no wayward on this forum has ever actually gone through and tried it for real though. It would be great if they did. They would find out in front of a packed courtroom that it isnt actually against the law to tell the truth and save your marriage.

Lying like this shows how desperate and cornered she is. Next she'll be threatening you with her flying monkeys

Plus, I doubt you used a censored word in your exposure - that is her own conscience talking and she doesn't like the fact that its been freed to sting her.

Shes flying pretty high on the helium of anger and she is going to fall HARD. I would be feeling pretty good about the success of your methods so far.




I would stop telling them info if they are going to tip off your wife like this. That will not help you take away her crack pipe.





Go straight out an buy a recorder, you need proof she is being violent and to protect yourself against false allegations



Calmly tell her to try that little thing if she wants to. I wouldnt mention that is clear she wont expose her actions to a judge in that way. Or that judges take a much dimmer view of adultery than of someone saving their marriage by teling truth. She already knows this and is firing blanks at you in a desperate attempt to bluff you into submission.



Do NOT let her rattle you no matter what she says. You need a GREAT poker face.

Simply say (chirpily and confidently) that your lawyer is dealing with that. But that you hope taking the children from her wont be necessary. That you think the best thing for everyone is that she chooses to work on the marriage.

She wants to get quickly back to facebook and OM and being the hottest thing ever.

While you continue to provide her with a family life.

The only way she gets to have both things is by making you an enabler and getting you to back down with threats.

She doesnt have time for lawyers and courtrooms. Plus OM is prob going to throw her under a bus.

It all hinges on how cool and confident you can be.

Be JAMES BOND.

Get the recorder

Get legal advice about your daughters

Get tough.

Because you ruined her affair!!!

You're doing great. May not feel like it, but with an WS as deep as she is you're exactly where your supposed to be.

Lies, insults, and empty promises of future actions are par for the course.

Smile don't engage and start to put your list of EPs and expectations of your new post A marriage on paper so when the vitriol ends you are prepared to make the next step with her.

This is a long trip you are starting so hang in there and enjoy the ride.

Nonsense. She cant fool around like that and call the shots. As she will discover.

Well done, my friend

If she was a drug addict or an alcoholic would she expect you to keep that secret too - so that people wouldn't think she was a drug addict or an alcoholic? Probably yes. Would it be the right thing to do? No.

All you have done is kill the SECRECY under which affairs thrive and ask for support. This is crucial in saving your marriage and family. GREAT JOB!

I know it doesn't feel like it, but you have a chance. You didn't before.

Do not leave.

For MrA!

Looks like you did a good job on the affair killing!

And aren't all way wards the same, they all spew the same stuff, there is absolutely no originality.

Nobody is going to sue
They all claim exposure killed the marriage, umh no, the affair would have, this gives it a chance.
They are all livid, the more livid, the better the killing was!


We should make a standard list somewhere, all reactions are the same.

Be ready to have people telling you this is a private matter between you and your wife and that you shouldn't be airing your dirty laundry...

I hated that...and never had a real good answer for it

Hurrah, Mr.A!

See how it works? You are going to need to use every ounce of strength to STAY CALM.

YOU are in the lead. She is not. You just took the crack pipe from the addict, and she is throwing a tantrum that will a) not last, and b) has to happen.

It's called rock bottom, and she knows she's there.

YOU ARE LEADING HER back to sanity. Got that? Stay strong.

Get thee to Walmart and buy that VAR. Her crazies will be around for awhile.

DOT NOT DO THIS ANYMORE

>>>> "Told her I did that to rub it in her face when she lied about contact."<<<<<<<<<

You must maintain control of you and not be baited into these responses. It's what she wants.

I was only told this by someone who knew about his A, hadnt told me and felt guilty

I replied the A was not a PRIVATE matter between me and WH but a SECRET matter between him and OW. A choice I'd nothing to do with.

I said I was not comfortable keeping such a destructive and cruel secret which harms not just me but both our families.

Then I said I was surprised to hear an old friend, whose opinion I had always respected, who had been a wedding guest supporting the beginning of our marriage, condoning adultery.

I said I would like him to persuade his friend, WH to do better in regards to his marriage and towards himself.

But then said 'But that's your call, just as doing this was mine'.

Yes Plan A = cool. NO ANGRY OUTBURSTS. Leave those to her, you are in control.

Such nuclear exposure in an ambush style tend to draw out a very angry and resentful response from the WS. WW thinks you forever ruined her public image and reputation. This is a natural response and should have been expected. From this point on, you just keep your calm, and answer to her outburst, like "I did what I had to do to protect this family",or "that was my last resort to stop this affair that has been going on for too long", or "your affair has been found out by your husband, yet you refuse to end it and continued on this affair without any sign of ending it and without any consideration for your husband's feelings. If you were in my shoes, honestly what would you have done? Keep this secret to protect your image from everyone? Seriously how long did you think I would keep this as our ugly family secret?"

This kind of brutal exposure is to kill the affair. Nothing more and nothing less. However, there is this explosive resentment and anger that you have to deal with afterwards. Some WWs will demand D immediately naming the exposure as the main reason, and some percentage of those may actually stick to this and indeed end M. However, think in this terms. If such exposure indeed solidifies WW's will to D, then that shows how little WW values her M in the first place. With such WW, the chance of R would have been nil no matter what other method you had tried.

Just try riding out this crazy wave of anger from your W, and wait till WW wakes out of fog. Realizing the A is now exposed to everyone and she cannot continue A anymore, she will be forced to reasses the situation. She may still end up wanting to D or may want to R. Either way, with A stopped, she will be more open toward R than while she was carrying on her A. Good Luck.

Look you need to settle down a little. You were warned on your thread what would happen after you exposed. So it hit the fan that is what exposure will do.

Did you think she was going to come to you and say she was wrong and you were right? That is not the way it works and you were told that. Now you need to get a steel spine.

Your other option was just to say nothing and don�t confront her at all. Then your wife would be very happy with you. She would be a cheating woman who has a husband who does nothing about it. What a great life for her. That way she has a husband and she can get another guy to bang her on the side.

My wife was cheating on me and I got a ton of evidence on her. She denied everything told me I was crazy. She did not know what I had on her but she denied everything. She was always mad at me and she always threatened me if I told she was cheating when she was not.

I exposed to everyone when she was flying out to Las Vegas to have a sex vacation with the OM. A trip put on my credit card I might add. She even paid for his plane and room since they were staying in the same room. I exposed to everyone and I sent emails to a lot of people about there trip to Vegas. I also called her cell phone when she was in the air and told her I knew she was with him there and I told her to find another place to live I won�t live with a Tramp. Told her she can move in with him I was done with her.

Do you think she was mad? The good thing is that she left me a cell message with the worst stuff she ever said to me told me I was crazy. I did not take the call and refused to talk to her. Once she saw a man who would not put up with this kind of crap then she changed.

She flew back and I told her to find a new place to live with loser OM I was done with her. Boy did she change when she saw a man who would not put up with this. She begged me to give her another chance. My wife knew I would not want to stay married to her since she had sex with the OM. She was right.

I divorced my wife. But I learned a lot of things about WW in the process. If you think you can just try to ignore it then you will end up without her no doubt in my mind. My XW came around only after I took action.

Your marriage is not in trouble because you exposed. Your marriage is in Peril because you have a cheating Wife. After all if her romance with the OM was not a problem then she would not have objected to you telling everyone about it would she?

Been following this for days, and feel like chiming in, not piling on I hope.

James Bond,,cool, calm, collected, and in control.

Oh I know, what harm does it do to show her you are upset? Won't she see how much it hurts you? Won't she see how much you love her? Short answer, no.

When this dirty little,(and exciting too), secret is out, most of the fun is gone out of the affair. Hence the threats, the accusations, the basic ranting and raving that you have caused, because you brought it out into the light.

The more angry she becomes, the more likely she is convicted internally also. She knows it is wrong, and she like most waywards, wants to blame you. She would have and kept that is secret also, as she tried to make it all seem like she had no choice. Wrong!

You spoiled her plans of deception, and worse of all, you spoiled her deception of herself. Now she has nobody to blame but you, you took away her drug, and she is mad as he11 about it! She is operating under the mistake that she will be able to make you pay, and truth be told, she is reaping what shes sown, and will pay dearly for it.

So, you can be sad about it, but do not react to what she says. who cares if she throws away jewelry or a phone, protect yourself with the police, get a VAR from Walmart,(Sony makes a nice digital recorder for about $60 bucks that sells there), and repeat the mantra, when you feel compelled to answer her, "I don't talk divorce, I talk marriage. I don't run from the challange, I embrace it"

And remain cool, calm, and collected.

This is exactly right. If she ends up deciding to D, then the exposure had nothing to do with it. You have given yourself a chance.

You may end up divorced, but you may not. Your were certain to have ended up divorced before.

I had gone on over half a year, knowing what was going on, trying to wait it out, to let the guilt, whatever, bring them around, win out. It wasn't going to happen. I had seen it but for some reason didn't think I could do anything about it. Nice guys like us for some reason are frozen by our entitled waywards. Heck, it wasn't until after I found MB that the thought crossed my mind that I never had to move out the first time my wife asked me to. How stupid does that sound?

After I found MB, I realized that whatever fears or misguided sense of honor, of what was right, was just that misguided. The evil was the affair, and I was enabling it.

You have stopped enabling it. You control your actions. Keep calm.

And if you haven't heard it before, do not leave your house.

How about an update MrA? We are all here to support you and help you get through this difficult time! It is always tumultuous! Keep your calm, keep peace at your heart, you are doing it because you love her and your children!

UPDATE:

Last nite she went bat shtt crazy again, this time in front of DD11 and DD15. They are my step daughters and not mine legally.

A friend of hers came over. She talked to us pretty candidly. I got a lil emotional when I was telling her all I wanted was to save the marriage by ending the affair. Not mad just emotional.

After that she drove off and then came back and told me she had her gun to her head and was going to end her miserable soulless life. I told her that is not what anybody wants and that I still loved her no matter what and there was more to live for. I hid all guns from her. I later prayed over her asking for Jesus to sweep the demons from her mind. She weeped hard. Even allowing me to lay hands on her.

She stormed off again a little later when I got back to house from picking up DD15 from her weekend study session. She stormed out saying "my life is your hands now". DD11 was hysterical. She came back and was wicked mad again. Talking about killing herself as she was just a walking body at this point.

She had AO after DD15 said "how could you do this to our family, you've thrown away your family mom". WW even threw stuff at me and attacked me. Never hurting me but still. This was in front of both DD11 and DD15. I had fone in hand with 911 ready to call but didn't as DD11 was hysterically pleading with me. She calmed way down after that. DD15 called friends and they came and got them out.

She went into bathroom and came out a little later much calmer but still weepy. She doesn't understand why I had to tell so many people and why not only some close friends and parents perhaps. I told her I just was not sure at this time, which I am really not. I cannot give her a good answer. She insisted that killed any chance of R. She kept insisting on an answer of why I told so many people. I just kept saying to end the affair and save the marriage. She kept asking "what crazy council are you getting that would insist on public humiliation, our church? your christian councelor?" Told her none of her business. Can somebody here give me a good answer to this? The answer I give is just not good enough for her. Tells me I have ruined her forever. I painted the red S on her chest - the scarlet letter.

She eventually kneeled down beside the bed where I was laying and weeped and I prayed for healing of her heart. She allowed me to touch her as I prayed and even laid her hand on mine. I rubbed her back even. She laid down on the floor and I covered her. She was uncomfortable I could tell and complete exhausted and I said to just get into bed and lay down. She did.

She woke about 4:30am and started crying and asking same questions again and telling me I ruined any chance of recovery for us since I let the whole world know. She showered and left around 5:45am and texted her BF where DD11 and DD15 stayed the nite, that she was heading to work.

Should I go file for Divorce right now before she might? I am not sure if she really is or not. What message will this send to her if I do? I keep talking I want R as people have said here to do, but I don't wanna be answering to her demands either if she in fact goes through with it.


ASIDE: She keeps claiming that Friday nite she stopped by OM house and was only there for 15 min as she saw the OM GF stuff there and realized it just wasn't what she wanted. On her trip down state there was still texting I saw. But she was telling me that it was him trying to pull her back. Claims she had that moment when she heard Blake Sheltons GOD GAVE ME YOU song. Then about 1 1/2hrs after I set the NUKE. I never viewed the video of the song she sent me, I just knew it was something of that nature. I was too busy compiling list of people.

I need some QUICK COACHING HERE. I am meeting with attny at 10:30am. 1 hr from now. ADVISE PLEASE...

she is blame shifting, telling the truth is not what got her in trouble, having the affair did. Many people already knew.

And a lot of her babbling is pretty standard, don't believe it. You did not hurt the chances of recovery by exposing, with an active affair there would have been no chance of recovery, you created a chance for recovery by killing the affair. But this tumult will last for a bit.

I have no advice with regards to the divorce/meeting with the lawyer.

Without nuking it, she would have gone back and forth between you and OM, make no illusion about that.

We told you she'd be like this. Be strong!

"The answer I give is just not good enough for her"

Oh really? Ignore comments like these. Your answer is correct...you will do everything in your power to save your marriage and your family.

Her outbursts, crying, etc. are all par for the course, Mr. A. Stay consistent and firm. You are doing great! Your WW is following the script to the letter. Be strong, stay stable. See how she wants you to be the soft place for her to land, even through her fury?

Lawyer? Does not harm to gather info. One meeting does not = divorce. Gather data, that's all. I seriously doubt that she'll file at all, much less today.

That is great!! It sounds like things are going along nicely and you have effectively killed the affair. The next time she plays the suicide card, you MUST CALL 911. Don't play around with that. Just call 911 and have her checked out. That is nothing to play around with.

I wouldn't bother going to an attorney at this time. This isn't going to divorce. Rather, when you see her next explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to settle for less and won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. [be a broken record with this last comment!!] In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

You don't HAVE to give her a good answer! And why try to reason with a falling down drunk? It is ridiculous to imagine that she would have been "ok" with a little exposure and not a lot. Who CARES if she approves or not? You are not trying to get her approval, MA, so don't expect it.

The more the wayward HATES the exposure, the greater the BLOW you inflicted on the affair. You inflicted a HUGE BLOW to the affair!

Tell her you're sorry that she's upset, but her continued adultery is flat out not acceptable. You will do whatever you have to do to keep your marriage and family intact.

It's just blame-shifting.


If it were me, I'd keep your meeting and see what the options are in your state. I wouldn't actually file, but it's good to know what you can and cannot do if things deteriorate.

I would then say to your wife "I spoke with an attorney today and I need to know what your decision is. Are you going to continue with the affairs and leave me and the kids? If you're going to continue with the adultery, then you need to find another place to stay and file for a divorce. I've spoken with your parents (or someone?) and they will let you stay with them for a while. The kids will stay here, they don't need to see you acting like you did earlier. Or you can agree to stop all contact with "Susie's" boyfriend [whatever her name is, refer to him as her boyfriend] and commit to keeping this marriage and family intact, but I will not stay married to you if you're committing adultery."

Write something down and read it to her if you have to. When possible, add "and the kids" to the people that she's leaving or losing. You want her to think of all of the people whose lives are being changed here. Too, it shows her that you're not just going to let her have them such that you become a once-a-weekend-dad.


My response would be "That may very well be true, but it's hard to tell right now."

And PLEASE make sure you are updating her family on this suicide crap. Her folks must be involved here, putting pressure on her to do the right thing with this.

She said yesterday she is going to ohio to see friends we have down there. Not sure if she intends to take kids or not.

I am so hesitant to call 911 as getting cops involved never ends good. I pray she doesnt keep doing this.

thanks ML and others for your advise and support - keep watch for future updates. I am lost on the next steps... don't want her to get in front of me on anything. She is adament about filing NOW.

Which is why you have to get her family involved with this. Tell them that she is suicidal and planning on taking the kids out of state. Beg them to get involved her if they are not already.

And I'd tell your wife that she is NOT taking the kids anywhere after all the crap she just did in front of them. If she does, call the police and tell them about the suicide threats. Tell them you are worried about the safety of the kids because she's threatening to take them out of state.

And I'd be on the phone with these "friends" telling them what is going on. It could very well be OM that she's going to see.

Don't let her take your little kids. You can't prevent her from taking the older kids, but you can prevent her from taking the little ones. Why would you consider allowing a "suicidal" woman to take your kids?


You have a responsibility to call 911 and get help when she threatens suicide. She is clearly under the impression that high drama will help her regain some control over you and might even go to those lengths to prove it. You really need to call 911 when she does this. It is for her best interest and yours.


She is talking crap. I agree with Northwoods suggestion to find out your rights, but other than that, just tell her if she wants to file, go file. But let her know you won't be cooperating and WILL be introducing her adultery and her instability in order to get primary custody.

In the meantime, please memorize the path back I posted above and start talking to her TODAY about that. Tell her you won't cooperate with any divorce, but will load the barrel with full ammo if she files. Be a broken record and let her know you would be willing to give her a chance to EARN YOUR FORGIVENESS but you refuse to stay in a loveless marriage.

Stay in control of this, MA.

PLEASE LISTEN TO ME. Your wife is saying this to SCARE you into submission. This is why she played the suicide card. She has been in control of your life for a long time and is upset at the loss of control. You have to STOP REACTING or she will succeed. Let her know she is free to file for divorce if she wants. Don't act like this scares you.

Don't reward her manipulation tactics, MA!

GET THE VAR TODAY!!!!!
you need to have these conversations and blowups on tape. Im going to bump psubikers tread for you. His is worst case but a var will halt any crazy tactics she could try.

If there's one thing I learned from Melody, marital, NG, etc....is to let the wayward blather on all they want....most of it is just talk anyway and the addiction speaking...

Hold your ground, stick with MB plan.

Great work exposing....marriages don't exist with a 3rd party present in them.

WW even threw stuff at me and attacked me. Never hurting me but still. This was in front of both DD11 and DD15. I had fone in hand with 911 ready to call but didn't as DD11 was hysterically pleading with me.

Eventually, after you get through this crisis, and start to live a life based on the MB concepts and practices, you will have a better grounding for your actions than accepting the advice of an eleven-year-old girl.

You were advised that if she turned violent, you should alert the authorities. She now knows you haven't the stomach for that, and will have the ability to maneuver YOU into being the one arrested. As one of two BHs here who admit to that lovely experience (CP, where are you?), permit me to tell you that it does NOT help your efforts in correcting HER misguided actions!

Waywards are all about threats, bullying, manipulating, and WORDS. They don't take action.

You must stop listening to her. Just imagine "Charlie Brown's teacher" when she talks -- blah blah blah blah blah.

She's mad. Thats understandable. But like I said? Who's transgression is worse? COMMITTING adultery or TELLING about adultery? You have to stop buying into her crap.

Her ideas and thoughts are FOGGY. She is not thinking clearly.
So STOP LISTENING to all of her reasons and ideas! She will think differently when she gets past all of this reactionary anger.

She will burn out. Just wait for it. And stop reacting to her words!

Already she's changed from **filing for divorce first thing monday morning** to **leaving for ohio**. See?

Stay out of her path for now, if you can't stop getting emotional about her words.

Hence the need for the voice-activated recorder (VAR) that was suggested earlier.

And, Mr. A, that's not a trivial suggestion. There actually have been people on here that were arrested because of trumped up domestic abuse charges. I can think of one that was arrested, removed from the home by the judge, spent time in jail and the OM moved into his house.

I doubt your situation would ever get that far, but just play it safe here. Likely, she'll start to calm down in a few days and you guys can have a more productive conversation.

Please be aware, that YOU are the one that calls the shots here. YOU are the one that decides if she gets to reconcile and YOU state the conditions you need in order to even try!

She does not get to decide anything. She has proved to you again and again and again, that she is NOT reliabe, NOT a fit wife, and most important NOT a fit parent.
She is behaving at BEST like a spoiled brat and worst case as a person with serious mental issues.

Why would you even take that remotely serious what she says?
Dragging the kiddies to church, but xxxxing with another man at the same time, doesn't really make sense does it?

___
The answer I give is just not good enough for her. Tells me I have ruined her forever. I painted the red S on her chest - the scarlet letter.
___

Get some spine her and don't run back into the bush crying, the first time she acts so ridiculously childish. Is this the woman you want raising your children? For heaven's sake, how can you even think about contemplating to let her take them with her?
She is threathening suicide in front of them! What kind of woman would do that???

I understand, that she seemed to be a different person as you married her.
But YOU have to decide now, to which of the two you want to be married. You either show some spine and tell her how things are going to be and you MIGHT have the chance of seeing that good woman again, OR you cave and hold her and try to appease her and

let your 11-year-old daughter decide if and when you are calling the emergency number
and the result will be that some mother-turned-lunatic will take and raise your children, because she will not take you seriously.

Come on. No woman will respect you if you knee at her side, as she is having a nervous brakedown.
This is not christianity. You are using religion as an excuse for not doing the things that a good head of the household would do here. You will have to have the guts to clean this temple out! Jesus wasn't a weakling on that.

And to the woman he said, go and sin no more. And this woman did not have a fit in front of the people, because she was truly repentant. your wife is just manipulating you because her little house of cards came falling down. She is pxxxxed because of getting caught and not because of realizing her wrongdoing.

Too bad.

Your family needs a leader here. Not someone who crumbles at the first little bump in the road. YOU should take charge and lead them out of this mess, that you helped create by condoning it for too long and doing nothing. (probably the thing you want to do again now.) Well fat chance. Wake up and move on.

You started to do the right thing, now go ahead and lead the family.

God bless you and work hard.

Happyheart

I hope you collected the information from your attorney on the general process. Just remember that your attorney's job will be to position you for the best DIVORCE outcome.
We, here, are positioning you for the best MARRIAGE outcome.

So the advice will be very different.
You need to choose which path to follow.
Your attorney will follow your lead. And we will support you however we can.

MrA -- your WW is all over the board right now. Suicide, mad at you, weeping, praying, threatening.
Let her burn out before you try to reason with her.

She wants to make this all about what YOU have done. Because she can't face what SHE has done.
Let her know that you can get past all of it together. There is a way to have a better marriage.

Yes this is true

If she threatens suicide, call the cops and get help. Yes I know how the cops can mess things up, that is why you need the VAR on you at all times, and.. BE COOL,CALM,and COLLECTED around her and in front of them also..

The police are looking for a rational person to talk to, and they ussually go along with the first person they see. They also need to see a man in control to take his side..so..make sure you are the first to make contact with them, if you feel like it might be nessesary.

This pretence of how you have ruined her life now, is part of her fantasy that it was everybody else who was the cause for her troubles. She thought she had everybody fooled. She might need to have counsel for this and be protected from herself, until she can be brought back to the human race, and reality.

Real people know how adultry can happen, and also know thier weaknesses. Whomever she thought she had fooled, were either not fooled or fools themselves. She has not lost anything in relationship with realistic people on planet earth.

She is losing it because you have woken her up from a dream, which was going to ruin her life in the long run.

Nobody hides the light under a bushel

Mr Amazed,

What she is going through is very normal based on what she has to face about herself now........let her know that you understand her turmoil and if she is willing to stay in the marriage just the two of you, all of it can be smoothed over with honesty and accountability and with God's help.......
Sometimes if you acknowledge her pain she will believe you understand and maybe can forgive her.......
Right now she is scared and very angry and it is coming out in big droves.......
Let that happen, but keep yourself safe, keep the guns out of reach, and make sure the car keys are hard to find..........giving her a moment to decompress.......don't let things get to that point, walk away, don't engage.....
As far as the lawyer what I did was go, understood what my rights are and left it out for him to see.......didn't do anything, figured that could come later, peoples rights don't change if things aren't filed........
I think even though it doesn't look like it right now, she is processing what she has done and how to make things right........a little olive branch of some sort, tell her it is a very stressful thing for both of you and you could really use a hug, ask her if she could use one as well, try to get that little comfort thing between you going.......I did this and after a couple of weeks, he was the one asking.....and missing it.......
It takes little steps each day to change things.....no matter how small......
something positive to think about, do something she normally does don't tell her let her realize you took care of it for her, no matter how little....
Make sure you speak to your children and make sure they are okay, tell them their mother is lost right now but that you are not going to give up on her and neither should they.............
Make sure they know that they will be taken care of no matter what and that you love them with all your heart and one of the reasons you are fighting .....
stay calm and strong.
Telling her breaking up the affair to save your family is a good enough answer ......she will see it soon......

just talked with her on phone...she is saying she doesnt wanna live anymore still. she is listening to the radio and the program is about christian marriages... ha - God speaking to her the guys wife he is talking about is the same as hers. even better.

I just bought VAR and I have some recordings from my phone from yesterday. some stuff angry, some stuff about dying... building my war chest.

She is driving home from work right now. She is taking rest of day off. She called earlier while I was at attorneys office. She was asking if I saw an attorney. I avoided telling her anything and only said I was interested in saving the marriage and open to her working on her forgiveness toward me...foggy head said I should be asking for hers for what I did to her life. I repeated it was her choice that led to this.

I am going to talk with my pastor. Then maybe go home. I locked up the house and she knows because her friend who came over to workout said it was locked. Why she needed in house and not garage where workout room is makes me wonder what is up? Ususally don't lock house but with OM wandering around 40min away from where I work, I wanted it secure.

Thanks again for the encouragement and advise. It is helping me.

I have experience with the police, when I called them once a long time ago concerning my late WW.

I called them, because I thought things were getting out of hand, and I thought they would listen to me, and help my wife and get her in treatment. I thought I was calling in the right deligated authority for the sitch at hand, and that it was the responsible thing to do, reguardless of what it might have meant for her reputation. Which by the way, I had covered for years, forgiving and restoring, and hiding all of her fallings.

When they showed up, I was outside, and felt,"Ok let them talk to her first, I am not the addict, and I will be able to tell them the truth, when they come out"

When they came out, the women officer in charge put me in handcuffs, and I didn't even have a chance to talk to them. about..
How she was hiding a heroin addiction for two years.

How she had allways been an alcoholic who refused treatment

How unstable she was mentally and emotionally, and how I had tried to cover for that, because of her horrible childhood, and now she has gone off the grid and I could not cover her anymore.

How I called the police to help her.

Once the police have a story and make a decision, they go with it, and my wifes story sounded so plausable,(She knew the buzzwords, and crazy people can sound so convincing, because they really belive what they are saying)
I was a control freak
I attacked her,(Really she attacked me and I restrained her, with my one good arm because I had a broken shoulder)

Police are very familiar with the way guys use drugs to control thier women, so maybe that is why they just assumed I was the guilty party. It didn't help that it was a female officer in charge.

The point being, that contact with the authoritys, did not help my wife, and she was never forced to any treatment plan the rest of her life.

I got a record for it.

Be prepared to use the police wisely, and don't think they will judge correctly. They have a dirty job to do, and you want your wife to get help right?

Take charge of the situation, and do it now

Please, don't take this the wrong way.
You are (right now) an idiot.
You are asking this ridiculous question about filing for divorce ... after experiencing .....


Can you tell me why you did not call 911?
It is IRRESPONSIBLE OF YOU not to have reported a suicide threat.

What's wrong with you?

talked with her on phone...she is saying she doesnt wanna live anymore still."

MA, you need to stop messing around here and go home and call 911. If your wife kills herself it will be on your head for doing nothing. And if she is just being dramatic, she will learn to stop it. But you need to man up here and take control of this situation,

Ok, I will let you in on a secret. When I as MUCH younger, I tried that threat. My exhusband call 911 and they carted me off the the hospital and had a therapist review my case.

When you are sitting in that room with someone telling you they are going to lock you up for your own good.....if you are bluffing you will tell them right away you are. If you are not bluffing, you need to go with them for your own good anyway.

Next time she does this, call the police but make sure you have that VAR on so you can play it to the officers. No way she can turn it around on you when they hear it from her mouth.

MrA, I think you haven't reacted to her threats of suicide because you recognize them as dramatic attempts to get you to back off, as well as her way of punishing you for what she perceives as a betrayal of her (silly waywards actually think that way after exposure).

You need to call 911 anyway, for two reasons:
- If she's serious you need to get help for her.
- If she's manipulating you, you need to defuse her by showing her the consequence of her baseless threats.

That's probably going to be the result and serves to bring the bottom up to her a little more.

That kind of behavior around kids is nuts, and this includes your step-children. They need one SANE parent around, and (like it or not) you're it.

Mr. A- nip this suicide crap in the bud. Be sure to play that recording as well when the officers respond.

Let her file for D, if she wants to. And, you must take any action the lawyer advised in order to protect your finances and custody.

As for her blaming you for "over-exposure", tell her, "you made me watch my wife carry on her affair for months right in front of my eyes. I have been pushed to the edge where I had to do this. This was my last ditch effort to end your affair. I know this embarassed you, but it embarassed me too. You have emasculated me by continuing this affair while you know I am aware, and now I had to let everyone know I have been a cuckhold husband all this time. This kills me too."

At this point, it will be a waiting game. I would advise Plan A, but make sure you do not smother her. She does not deserve it, and it makes you less attractive. Keep telling her you want to save this family.

The votes are in

Call the po-po to protect her from herself

Be the first one to bring up the issue, and the strong one who admits they need help

Know that what you say, is the previos step to what you will do

Threats of violence are not to be trifulled with

Please don't enable her anymore, in her misunderstanding, and whatever spiritual toxicity she is entertaining in her mind.

I would caution here that sometimes it's in the BH's best interests to file first. The BH can then control the process of the D (or stop it entirely) while working on restoring the M.

I'd suggest that the BH discuss the situation with his attorney and get legal advice on the matter.

So what have you done to protect the ones you love?

Its been a few hours and we are worried about you.

He may still only be able to get to us while at work. Not sure if he got a new phone today.

Oh, I thought he had a laptop at home too. Maybe I missed something

I think it's a dinosaur, or he has trouble logging on. I think he mentioned that he was having a lot of trouble with it a few days ago.

He was using his cell phone as a hot spot...otherwise no internet at home.

Geez this thread moves fast!

STAND YOUR GROUND. This is your one shot. Having been through it I can already she her breaking, but theres a long way to go.

You're getting tons (Marital you PITA:)) of good advice, but one thing - you remind yourself to deal with the pastor that blew your confidentiality later..She needs a good swift kick in the career.

Lol, Reynolds that is right on.

Sounds like a flaky church IMO.

Sometimes being alone with God is the best medicine for our conscience.

My wife suffered for years because she felt like she would be letting God down, and unfaithful, and might relapse, because she went to a counselor, or AA, or admited God put those people here as his agents for healing.

Its like the story of the man who was in a flood, and when the fireman came with a boat, he said,"No God will save me" and stayed at the house.
When the waters rose and he was on the roof, a helicopter came and let down a rope ladder, and he said the same thing

He drowned and went to heaven, and asked God, "Why didn't you save me?" God said, "I sent the fireman and a helicopter"

People are proud, and don't see, the body of Christ works through the spirit, even when people don't belong to the church.

But they have to have attendance, and want to work dependance, into the lives of there congregation. I would say that the Pastor broke a confidance, arrogantly and dangerously so. They don't know about saving marriages obviuosly either.

For someone who is supposed to know about the spirit it seems they are not factual but are emotionally based in thier faith.

Many churchs are like this, and sell themselves as the be all end all of everything, when God is bigger than the church, and the pastors only have a portion of God to share, they don't know all the answers.

But there is help for her, if she will accept she needs it, from professionals, who might not go to the same church, but pray to God to be of service to others, but they do it in private.

What arrogance, and what Pastor, betrays a trust like that?

I really, really wish that churches would use romantic love as a litmus test for their married church leadership. Seriously, I wish they would administer Dr. Harley's LBI.

Seems like all of the things the apostle Paul said were good for an elder in his epistles to Timothy and Titus are more achievable if a good man is in love with a good woman.

MrA,

You have a responsibility to get your wife the help she needs. Now. No matter how well you know your wife, you really don't know if someone is serious about suicide or not.

FWIW, after a very tragic event this summer my DH did get me help. He threatened to committ me, got me an appointment with our family doctor who knew me, got me on some decent meds, took care of a support group for me, and had he not done all of that the outcome probably would have been very different for me. I never threatened suicide as blatently as your wife, but I did mention it a time or two and my DH wasn't willing to take the chance that I might or might not be serious.

Please get your wife the help she needs with a good psych ward, not a (relatively) untrained pastor or Christian Counselor. Our pastor made things worse for me and I did need medical intervention. I was pretty pissed at him for getting me treatment, but it was the best decision that he could have made.

Steph

Not all churches are family based, offer marriage counseling or are that commited to it. Its terrible because the marriage is a reflection on our relationship with the Father and is supposed to mimic it. The church me and my wife belonged to was mission based, and it was all about planting churches around the world. Money was important, so important that members with it were chosen over menbers without it, even members who were faithful for years. You were called to come with a good marriage, and were expected to maintain it. Many marriages were destroyed in service to the missions.

Many people need practical help in thier marriage, the kind DR H gives, and it would mean so much to the world of churches, to glean from his work and use his methods I agree. Strong familys in the congregation show a balanced church, with priorities in order. Any church that does not have the humility to learn and accept those ideals that keep a good marriage relationship, has a hole in thier head, and to me, Charity begins at home, and the family is Gods crown jewel, and why leadership in love works in the first place.

OK Mr A sorry for the threadjack

UPDATE:
Sorry - no internet. WW hit bottom and did not want to live anymore. I was taking her threats as a way to get me to back down. I was trying to not let it phase me but still pleading with her it was the wrong path for her and the family.

On her way back home yesterday she was still thinking about driving her car off the road. She drove off into the woods and just started wandering. GOD spoke to her in the woods audibly and told her to "move" "and go back and tell your husband you love him". She asked me to come home and I did.

When she walked through the door she was in tears and gave me the warmest embrace ever. Her wedding ring was back on (not actually tossed out window). She told me this miraculous story of the ways God worked on her. We prayed and read Eph 5 as it was put on the radio by God for her to read. She wants me again, feels the love for God and me again. Wants to reconcile, feels terrible for her actions this weekend and has asked forgiveness from the kids.

However, right now she will not let go of shifting blame on publicly humiliating her and she want me to admit that I was wrong in letting so many know. She said I should have kept it with close family and some close best friends. I did expose her to one person at work who apparently has a big mouth. She is concerned about her job and that people were judge her first as an adulterer. I thought this person was more of a friend to her, but it sounds like she fwd my message to other coworkers.

She wants to know where I got this advise from as she wants no part of the rest of the rebuilding program. She said that she was by the grace of God opening her heart without anger and telling me what I wanted to know and asked for me to give her the truth and open up to her so she could move on. She wants to know I didn't make this up on my own. Wants no part of it as she doesn't feel like it fits the NEW DIRECTION God has sent her in yesterday. I mentioned polygraph to her and that tripped her off and made her suspicious. I did say I read of this method on the web.

I've never seen my wife more sincere and one with God. I have never seen her pray like she did yesterday and last nite. She thanked God for me and revealed there is no other man she ever wants to be with. She wants to move away from her sin and commit completely to living a life for the Lord.

She realizes she did wrong but cannot understand the breadth of exposure. I know I was advised not to send her here & i wont tell her, but I think we can salvage my marriage and family, but I think if I showed her a little grace in this tender time of her wake up to Gods words, we can move forward with counceling, protecting our marriage and rebuilding the romantic love in it. She said she won't be able to move forward with rebuilding unless she knows who told me to ridicule her PUBLICLY. I said well file for divorce. That surprised her as I have avoided going that direction all along, so figured I was following a script. I was getting pretty upset with her, but I do really feel God has laid it on her heart.

We told DDs we wanna reconcile. They seem more at ease but it will still take time i think for them to process all this as well.

I set up a meeting with my pastor whom I confided in about the affair at 5 today. He took a MB workshop with his wife but the whole exposure thing was not touched on by their workshop.

She keeps telling me that she cant rebuild unless she knows it was wrong of me to expose to all the world. I know what you have told me but she isn't getting it all quite yet. She dreaded going to work and could hardly sleep again because of it. I told her I don't care what others think, I only care for my family and my marriage.

Should I just tell her that it was received on the i-net and that I won't be coming back and that we will seek out our own counsel/program to rebuild? She wants me to be fully honest now that she has been. That brings up the polygraph again. When I was asking her to be completely honest, I had asked if she was willing to do polygraph. Later I mentioned it again and she figured out it must be something that was recommended in the plan. She said there is no such Christian program that would expect that form of recovery process. She wants to recover with Christ as the center of our marriage and family and sees this as completely wrong.

Remind her that God is sovereign over ALL things. Even the exposure. Nothing happens that is out of his control. That when God redeems a person it isn't a half baked deed. He often does it by bringing sin to light.

remind her that God uses means. Even when they aren't comfortable. Scripture tells us that God is no respecter of persons. He brings sin to light.

Exposure was one of the means to do this.

Next post, I will post on what real biblical repentance looks like from a repentant wayward...

CV

How about taking some ownership here and stop playing games? Tell her you made the decision to expose and that you would have taken out a billboard if you could have afforded it. Remind her that if she wasn't doing something wrong, there would be nothing to expose.

Let her know that you are willing to give her an opportunity to EARN your forgiveness but all of her bitterness about exposure is not helping in that regard. Tell her it is a crying shame you were put in that position in the first place.

You need to nip this in the bud now and stop acting like you did something wrong. The only reason she is angry about exposure is BECAUSE OF HER FOG. But you are going to make the FOG WORSE if you act like you did something wrong.

Stop saying you read it on the internet. Tell her YOU MADE THE DECISION. And make it a part of your conditions that she participate in the MB recovery program. THAT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE.

My apologies, this is a long, but necessary post:

Notice during this discourse that the offending party's sin had been exposed to the whole church.

Repentance unto Life: An Exegetical Discourse on II Corinthians 7:9-11


2Co 7:9-11 as it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. (10) For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (11) For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.


Paul had previously written to the church in Corinth concerning several sins that the church had fallen into, moral, ecclesiastical and doctrinal. As The Apostle here approaches our section in chapter 7, he begins to make mention of his previous letter to them. It appears that Paul�s letter of chastisement to the Corinthians has taken root and that they are truly repentant. It is in this context that Paul begins his discourse in verses 9-11, establishing exactly what godly grief over sin looks like.

(verses 7-9):


As Paul begins his discourse, it is clear that his attitude was that of bringing the offending party or parties to a state of repentance, and though he was grieved over the need to speak to them in harsh words, he is glad for the benefits it produced. The letter, though not written in the tone and spirit Paul may have desired, nonetheless produced profitable results for its readers. In essence, Paul is saying that even though he is saddened that he had to write in the manner he did, he rejoices over the fruit that it has borne and this in itself is cause for rejoicing.

It is clear that Paul has discipline in mind as he speaks to the Corinthians. Though he was saddened by the fact he had to admonish and rebuke, he saw the necessity of it as well as the subsequent fruit. Paul�s admonition brought what he describes as, a godly grief and as such says they suffered no loss. That is, no damage was done to their souls as a result of the rebukes. What Paul is rejoicing in then is what the puritans refer to as a �true evangelical repentance�, that is a lasting repentance which is for the right reasons, the nature of which he goes on to describe in subsequent verses.

2Co 7:10-11 for godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (11) For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.


Paul now, after having established what true repentance is, grief borne from God, he now proceeds to describe what the nature of true repentance looks like. The apostle tells us that godly grief produces in the broader sense, repentance, or turning from sin, that leads to salvation. This contrast of true and false repentance is first put in the context of salvation versus death, speaking of our eternal state. It is in this context that true Christian repentance is explained. True Christian repentance is repentance without regret as the ESV states. Perhaps a better rendering of verse 10 might be this:

�For sorrow according to God accomplishes a reformation (or repentance) that saves and is irrevocable (without regret), but the grief of the world fashions (or brings) death.� (my translation)

The true work of God, Paul says is one that does not bring regret, because it is not a false repentance. The apostle describes a repentance that is irrevocable because it is a God-given repentance and thus, we do not have to despair over it. The contrast with a worldly grief, that is a temporary turning from the sin, is in Paul�s understanding a matter of life and death. So true repentance then produces a desire, which may be evidenced visibly in the repentant believer. So as Paul begins his discourse in verse 11, we see the product, or fruit, of what God-given repentance brings.

Paul in verse eleven gives us seven marks of true repentance. Let�s consider each one in order:

1. Earnestness: Firstly and most generally, there is an earnest desire that becomes a Christian who is truly repentant. This earnestness (spoude) signifies haste, or a speed that accompanies repentance. I believe that what Paul is trying to get across to his readers is that when the offending party encounters God-given repentance there is a haste or speedy desire to make things right. It is recognition that the offending party desire to make things right before God and his fellow man. Calvin notes in his commentary that this earnest desire �we may understand from what is opposed to it; for so long as there is no apprehension of sin, we lie drowsy and inactive. Hence drowsiness or carelessness, or unconcern, stands opposed to that earnest desire� � This earnestness then is tied to the desire to speedily remedy the wrong done by the sinner.

2. Eagerness: Secondly, there is an eagerness to clear yourself. Literally, to give an apology or defense. Calvin notes that rather than give a defense or excuse for the sin, the word (apologion) is used in the sense of asking pardon. The plea, or apology, then is not to excuse the sin, but rather to seek mercy and forgiveness from the one who has been offended . The idea is akin to coming and throwing yourself at the mercy of the court rather than giving a defense of your case to prove your innocence in the particular matter. This signifies a differentiation in attitudes. The person who has not truly been apprehended by God with true repentance seeks to justify or give reason for the sin committed, but the person truly gripped by a godly sorrow has a humble and contrite attitude. They do not seek to give an explanation for why they sinned so much as they seek mercy for their sin, recognizing that they are without excuse.


3. Indignation: This is indignation towards their sin and even against themselves. This is a righteous, godly indignation, which accompanied with the other evidences, does not lead to a morbid introspection, but rather an outcry against the sin committed. The sinner then seems angry at the sin and even at themselves for having engaged in it, knowing that there is only himself to blame for having engaged in that sin. This is more intense than sorrow Calvin says, because it has become the first step towards hating evil . Thomas Watson comments in his treatise on true repentance that our indignation and sorrow for our sin should be of the same measure as the sin committed . He notes that the failure to weep over our sin is directly connected to our view of the riches of Christ�s mercy and grace poured out upon us !

4. Fear: What alarm or terror Paul says was produced as a result of repentance. This alarm, this phobos, derives from a sense of divine judgment. This stems from the knowledge that at the last day, every man must give account for his own actions. Proverbs tells us that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.


5. Vehement desire: Paul accompanies fear with vehement desire, or longing. Whereas fear may stem from a natural inclination, according to Calvin, this longing is a more conscious desire rooted in the desire to not commit the sin anymore and thus risk God�s condemnation .

6. Zeal: Paul builds to a climax his exposition of the fruits of repentance. Building off the previous two fruits, fear and longing, Paul adds zeal which is a more intense form in this context of longing. This zeal stems from a desire to make things right as the offender desires to give evidence of his repentance.


7. Revenge: Paul finishes out his discourse on true repentance with revenge. ekdikesis) means vindication or retribution. True repentance then, also bears the mark of one who wants to vindicate themselves through the demonstration of their repentance. It may be that Paul here has in mind I Corinthians 11:31, where he tells them that if they would judge themselves, they would not be judged by the Lord. Paul here is telling us that if we would judge ourselves, then there would be no need to be chastened by the Lord. Private offenses, says Calvin, need not be handled publicly, but as in the case of the man who was openly sinning by sleeping with his father�s wife, there needed to be a public chastening and also a public repentance on the part of the Corinthians for their tolerance of such a sin .


In some instances, as evidenced in Paul�s description of our 7th point (Revenge), restitution may be in mind. For instance, if a man has taken the goods of another, he may seek to offer repayment for it. This must be a heartfelt restitution. In Luke 19:8, Zacchaeus offers to restore what he stole four-fold. This is a principle which was derived from Numbers 5:7. Important also to note is the fact that this idea was not limited to physical goods (land, money, goods), but extended to false accusations as well. Some sins though, may be so grievous that restitution may never be able to be provided. This must be kept in mind as we cannot separate the doctrine of repentance from Christ our great high priest. It is not possible for us to recompense God for sin against His Holy nature. So how is such a thing accomplished? It is only accomplished in the person and work of our savior, Jesus Christ. Christ has made restitution on our behalf before the Father. He has paid what no man can and has satisfied the righteous requirements of God�s law. Likewise, there may be instances where sin against our brother or sister is so great that restitution may not be possible. It is here also that the grace of God must cover our infirmities. Truthfully, the burden of this rests upon the offended party rather than the offender since it is the offended party who has to provide grace and mercy. Thomas Watson notes that the true child of God seeks the most to be revenged of the sins which have offended God the most . It may be that one of the best ways to avenge the sin is recompensing the one offended.


This may seem like a hard view of repentance, especially in light of the modern evangelical view of sin where grace is cheapened by a �soft repenting�. That is, a repenting that does little introspection does not search the heart and has a view that �God will just forgive whatever I do if I just ask�. Yet, we see David�s words in Psalm 51 regarding how we should view our own sin, where in verse 3, David says �my sin is ever before me�. David�s intent here is not that the threat of God�s judgment is ever before his eyes; rather it is the idea that our hearts should break because our own sin has grieved our comforter. David is saying �my sin is my own fault, and my own sin is before my face� In the Old Testament evidence of true repentance was shown outwardly through various means (shaving one�s head, weeping, sitting in ashes, and clothing one�s self in sackcloth), but in the New Testament Paul shows us a better way. Paul tells us in this passage 1) Our repentance must me God-inspired in order to be genuine repentance 2) Genuine repentance has genuine fruits 3) real repentance is not short-lived (as evidenced in the nature of the fruits it bears), hence the irrevocable nature of the salvation which leads to repentance.




Concluding remarks:


It is important to note that these outward manifestations are evidences of an inward work of the Holy Spirit, for without the Holy Spirit, no true repentance could take place. Paul saw the evidence of true repentance. Paul�s concluding remarks is that they �proved themselves innocent at every point�. This means that he was able to see the evidences of a true repentance in them as they were spurred on by their zeal to prove it. We see that such repentance is also profitable in that comfort is provided to the truly repentant. This is seen in Paul�s general manner towards the Corinthians as he seeks to encourage them as well as the tone of Paul�s words that Christ provides comfort to those who mourn, and even though their sin has caused them sorrow, their repentance if followed by encouragement from the comforter who brings peace in the midst of our turning.
There also appears to be a difference in humility versus humiliation in this passage. Paul sees their repentance and says in essence �it is enough�. He is not requiring them to go beyond the bounds of what Scripture requires. Paul�s primary concern is that their earnestness, their genuineness is seen by God. This is displayed in verse 12 where he says that he desires that they see their care for them is evident in the sight of God. One of the great treasures of the Gospel is that God grants pardon to us in Christ if we truly seek him in repentance. As the great work of the Holy Spirit grips us and takes hold, peace begins to reign in our life knowing, trusting, and resting in the knowledge that not only has Christ defeated death, but He has also defeated sin. It is a living in the midst of the already/not yet. Knowing that God has already justified us, he has already given His Son, our redemption has already been accomplished, His Words of Promise have already been written for our instruction, and yet, we still see through a glass darkly. We have not yet seen the fulfillment of the sanctifying work of the Spirit, Christ�s Kingdom has not yet been finally established; death while defeated has not yet been eradicated. It is the knowledge that we are living in the midst of redemptive history and God�s plans are being worked out in and through us, yes even in the midst of our sin, and His glory is displayed in our repentance.

ML - are you say to mention MB recovery program by name right NOW? I am a little confused about what you meant here.

She's saying to take ownership of the program. Don't tell her you read it somewhere, or that it is the MB plan of recovery.. Tell her it is YOUR plan for recovery and that she must comply to recover the marriage.

CV

MA, you have come this far and are throwing it all away by allowing a WAYWARD to dictate the terms of your recovery. HUGE MISTAKE!! She has no say in it! She does not get to dictate the terms of your recovery. You have been through so much, don't throw it all away now that you are at the finish line!!!

It is a huge strategic mistake to say some program told you to do this. You should be telling her: THIS IS WHAT I NEED TO RECOVER. I even gave you a script!

The problem here is that you are negotiating the recovery process with her and IT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. NOT NEGOTIABLE. STOP NEGOTIATING WITH A FALLING DOWN DRUNK.


And NO, you are not "fully honest" with a terrorist. Honesty is for recovery. You do not tell her where you are getting your information or tell her about your spy techniques. [NEVER EVER tell her about spy techniques]

I am going to post this again. You should STOP negotiating with her and tell her: "THIS IS WHAT I WILL REQUIRE TO STAY IN THIS MARRIAGE. I AM WILLING TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO EARN MY FORGIVENESS IF YOU DO THESE THINGS." Otherwise you don't have a marriage. You do not allow a wayward to dictate the terms of your recovery.

Yep, lay out the script I gave you. This is not negotiable. There is not one other program that I know about that restores the romantic love in marriage. Even so, your wife DOES NOT GET A SAY IN IT. This plan is designed to protect you from another affair and recover your marriage. If she doesn't want to do that, then you don't have a marriage.

Take ownership of the exposure thing. Tell her you will try to forgive her for putting you in that position.

"I am sorry you are upset about exposure. I am too. I am upset you had an affair and put me in that position. But I will give you a chance to earn my forgiveness."

You are getting great advice. Please continue to follow it.

Keep a ZERO tolerance on the suicide threat.

In front of your children? 100% unacceptable.I hate to see the children abused in this manner. By their own mother, no less.

Call the police immediately after the next public declaration. Tell THEM she had an affair and is now having mental health issues dealing with the fallout.

You hurt HER with exposure? She hurt herself. Now, she seems ( I do not know the extent of the home drama ) to be involving children into her situation? way. messed. up.

This needs professional intervention.

Ok, now she is trying to use GOD to make you believe you did something wrong. The Harley's are very much christians. There newest book "draw close" is a daily devotional.

She is still trying to play you and you need to stay strong.
She has no right to negotiate with you on what you need to recover.

Dr Harley says there is one reason not to be open and honest and that is personal or family health. An ongoing affair will affect your health. He said this point blank on the radio yesterday.

Yep!

OK I think I am in too deep and she knows too much. I have screwed up as she knows from the statements of friends about my "council" and now I revealed the i-net... I know she won't buy into anything else.

All she needs to do to find this thread is to search for "exposing an affair" and MB comes right up. I feel I screwed it up terribly and wasted all advice on here as I saw in her yesterday such a moving change within her soul. I can tell she is still foggy but she has opened the door back to God in her life which I knew was missing, I don't want to jeopardize that for her either. Or my own desire of healing with my wife.

The whole polygraph thing seems too out of the fold as a condition. Reminds me of Meet the Fockers. IDK she will think it way kooky. I know do not negotiate.

Your wife is not "one" with God, MA. She was just threatening to kill herself yesterday. This miraculous conversion is an attempt to manipulate you to get your resources so SHE CAN GET YOU BACK IN HER CONTROL. She does not like losing control of you!!!

She KNOWS that whoever is helping you has helped you gain control of your marriage and SHE DOES NOT LIKE IT! IT is her goal to find out and squelch that resource so she can get you back on the farm.

The passage about you will "know them by their fruits" is very applicable here. The fact that she is badgering and resentful about exposure reflects an UNREPENTANT HEART. A repentant heart would not be angry about the tactics used to stop her sin. This is like Bill Clinton who got on TV after being caught wetting his whistle in the Oval Office and said "Forgive me Lord for my sin!! Dang them evil Republicans!"

Sorry, your wife is not remorseful or humble or sincere. She is still playing the game and just using the God card.

She tried playing the suicide card, the divorce card and now the God card all in an attempt to get you back in control. Don't let that happen. Don't give her back the wheel.

You have allowed this to spiral out of control by not taking accountibility for your decisions. It doesn't matter if you read it in a comic book. What matters is you are a grown man who personally made the decision how and where to expose. That is what you are missing. *YOU* made the decision.

You need to take accountibility for your actions and stop acting like some resource on the net is responsible for your choices.

MA, did you come this far to throw this all away?

There is not true repentence here. True repentence comes with a humble heart, not with bitterness and grudging over the consequences of one's crimes. You are jeopardizing your marriage by allowing a wayward to terrorize you and dictate the terms of your recovery.

Your wife had an affair, and you think you wronged her.

The things you tolerated to keep the peace, to keep her "loving you" got you where you are.

My middle name was "conflict avoidance."

Once again, I am divorced.

You are headed that way if you don't listen.

Do you believe in MB? Do you want to go back to anything close to your old marriage that got you where you are today?

She will have to change, but you will, too.

To be honest, I doubt she will. But I have greater doubts about you now.

Welcome to the rest of your life, it will be hell.

ITA.. this is why I posted that rather long post on repentance...

The divorce card didn't work.

The suicide card didn't work.

The new tactic is the God card.

I fear she is going to succeed in manipulating him with the God card. And all on the same day that she spit in God's face by threatening to commit suicide as a means of manipulating her husband.

"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? Matthew 7:16

MA, don't make these last few days all for nothing by giving into her latest ploy. Don't hand the wheel to a falling down drunk.

Mr A,

Take what ML wrote you (the list) and tell that to your wife.

Your post doesn't mention much of the OM. What about contact with them or is your WW trying to push that into the background?

Your wife sounds manipulative. To test this, tell her she needs to have a polygraph done for you to stay married to her. When she flips out, I bet you won't see anything remotely resembling a Christian response.

Mr A.

When your wife has found GOD, you will know because she will no longer paint YOU as the sinner. She has not found GOD.

Yep. When he sees true remorse/repentance, he'll notice that it doesn't look anything like what he's seeing now.

AMEN!!!


He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. Proverbs 17:15

It is evil to commit adultery, it is not evil to expose adultery.

Mr Amazed,

Your wife is still processing everything and is still angry, you just keep telling her you did what you had to do to save your marriage........
Tell her you don't regret being the saviour in your marriage, the only way was stopping the affair and this was the only way you could think of that would make that happen, for her to become accountable for her actions and to rethink her decisions.........
This is what exposure has accomplished......and that was the goal of your actions and that you stand behind what you chose to do to end the affair......

Do not let her make you feel badly about saving your family....
Tell her you at least were doing something in a positive way to save your family unlike what her decisions were doing.......

Tell her you are ready to rebuild and now that God has helped you bring her back to you and your family it is time to forgive and rebuild your lives together, tell her you will be her support system and he shoulder when she needs it.....

She is still foggy and it will probably take a few weeks before she can see the benefit of exposure but she will see it eventually, it makes logical sense and is does have a positive out come for her marriage as well and her family.

Even if she sees the MB thing if she looks it up, she won't know you are here posting and getting help.
It is an informational site for anyone willing to read it, and if she does she might also see the good in the MB way.
It is there she just doesn't have to know you are here.....
You didn't screw up, you got help when you needed it from a great bunch of folks willing to help you and look where you are in such a short time, a little time ago, you didn't even think she could or was having an affair.........
You took action and stopped and now have a chance to save your marriage.......that is not wrong or a mistake, you didn't screw up.....

You were a hero my friend and the strength when she had none herself........we all fall off the tracks sometimes and someday she will know how lucky she was having such a brave man save her from destroying herself and her life......

You should be proud of yourself

MA-

Take a deep breath. I have not seen such fast and furious action on these boards in my time here.

You are doing great. Check that. Awesome.

My wife, too, threatened to hurt herself at one point. She would start digging at her wrist and actually created a scat thats still there. I told her if I see her doing it again, Im taking her to the ER and all that can entail.

Watching ones life potentially dissolve into nothingness is scary. By repeating the mantra that you are ready to forgive and get passed all this is only way.

Stay strong, your fight is rough one.

Next thing will be her studing the word of God and dictating how it will be, because you don't know about God, she heard him in the woods, did you?

Plus you are at work all the time,(expect to work harder if this continues to escalate),you don't know the struggles she is going through! Trying to save this marriage!

She is trying to turn this around so she can control you again.

Let her know you heard from God too. This has got to stop. Get her some help., spoke to your conscience as clear as day, as you consider all things for your family, wisely, and even hear your fathers urging in every conversation you have, because your heart for your family in continually before God in everything, in every moment, in every conversation you have with others.......and you can discern the difference.

You have to be the leader, she is not capable, believe me I know.

Interesting how all this listening to God stuff goes out the window when it comes to getting what she wants and punishing you to make you do what she wants. I'll bet she didn't pray to God about that one.

I hope Mr. A sees that as well.

It'd be interesting to know how much contact she has been in with OM since exposure.

Stop being so intellectually arrogant, amigo.

You do NOT know what the best steps for reconciliation are. And your WW sure as HELL has no idea. Rather than waste time arguing with the vets here who have coached dozens (well, hundreds in ML's case) of betrayed spouses through the worst of their crises, just understand that THEY know what YOU have no clue about.

And if l'il Miss I-See-The-Light-Now is gonna play the "How dare you not trust me?" card NOW, about the polygraph, she is going to go bat-sh!+ crazy when you listen to us and mandate that both of you undergo an entire battery of STD tests.

Of course, that's assuming you get a backbone, and start explaining to her that the game is to be played by your rules, or not at all!

Mr A, the church and the internet aside.

She had an affair. You can leave now and shes the bad guy.

Either she does this or you split up. Full marriage or full divorce. No discussion of what program, no asking to see Hartleys credentials. If he went to clown college its still your choice here.

You have all the power now. Use it.

Oh Melodya -- you are so full-on right!!!!



And don't forget the SEX card before exposure.

Your wife is a MASTER manipulator. You better grow some cajones quick - and be ready to stand up to her.

You had better stand tall MrA. Women do not respect men that they can plow over. And women do not love men they can't respect.

She has NOT had a come-to-jesus moment. She is once again trying to wrestle control from you.

Don't be so quick to forgive someone who isn't showing repentance.

Do you see MrA, that you're not talking about recovery and how she can make it up to you --- you're still talking about how pizzed off SHE is. Good Grief.

I think you should sit back and observe this 'conversion' of hers. I suspect she is playing you like a fiddle.

That's really unfortunate, because I can promise you that she's lying like a rug.

See my last statement.

MrA, if you purposely drop the ball that you've managed to carry all the way to the 5-yd line, I will have zero sympathy for you. You have gotten top-notch advice from people who have been where you are, and you have gotten thisclose to getting your wife back. We've even told you what she's going to say!!

All it's taken to undo all of that is a little manipulative persuasion by the one person you should trust the LEAST.

You can help her, if you take charge.

Do not let her terrified feelings of despair shake you, stand strong for your family.

Yeah listen to the girls, they will let you know, how she is playing you.

Her entire purpose of getting your resource is to DISCREDIT it.

He was not my pastor, but he is a close friend of ours that is a pastor. I think he talked with wife about this and she leaked "council" about exposure. She deduced it from there.

Mr. A,

Anytime she brings up the exposure thing, tell what you�ve been told to say. It was a necessary step that you took no pleasure in but you made a decision to end the affair.

All the rest of her babble is just that. You don�t believe it, but I�ve seen the situations enough to know that your WW will be a rollercoaster, but will very likely end up being a remorseful WW.

Keep being strong. Emphasize that you don�t regret the steps you took to kill the affair. Make it clear to her that if she ever talks about suicide again that you will call the police if necessary and that you won�t take threats of suicide lightly.

Be the calm and strong presence she�s looking for.

When she asks about why you exposed, ask her if she�s ended her affair and is willing to write a no contact letter.

Never apologize for the actions you took to end the affair.

Believe it or not, your situation is very salvageable. Lots of the WW�es here who are deep into the affairs run off with OM. The violence against you, however, is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.

Seriously, call the police if necessary.

The fact that she is more concerned about the damage to her affair than she is about the damage to her marriage should be quite enough to judge her sincerity. All of this crap about where you got the idea to expose is a distraction that should not be entertained for 2 seconds.

Do we care if the falling down drunk is angry when we take the car keys away? Of course not. And we sure don't let it stop us from driving him to the treatment center to get help for his drinking.

Keep your eye on the TREATMENT, MA, and don't allow yourself to get distracted by the angry, manipulations of a falling down drunk.

Such nuclear exposure is indeed very hurtful. It is embarassing and humiliating, no doubt. It seems wrong to expose a person to high dosage radiation that would make them sick, but if it is th last measure of attempt to cure the cancer patient, who can blame the doctor? Be sympathetic to her feeling humiliated, and even apoloigze to her, but at the same time tell her that she gave you no other choice but to do this. Of course, she can say "limited exposure" would have been enough, but then again, how would you know how much exposure would do the trick? Exposure method relies on shock effect, and it does not work as effectively if it is done gradually. I remember a poster mentioning a frog in a pot analogy where a frog in a slowly heating pot just get used to it and never bother to jump out, instead just choose to die in it.

As for poly, I don't think you should press on poly too hard on her at this point. Give her some breathing room. She is still in a fog and may resort to some self-destructive act or decision while in it. This is not over yet. You should continue your snooping effort to make sure the contact has indeed ended.

She want the list of all people I sent message to on FB. She wants to write her story of what this exposure has put her through. I don't understand what it is she will gain from this. Says if I don't she will share with all mutual friends. I said fine, but I think you should cool off a bit. I think she may just embarrass herself more and her DD's that have friends that could see this public announcement.

Keeps asking me for the scripture that I read where it was OK to expose to the whole church for when a son sleeps with a mans wife. I cannot find it now.

You have been successfully distracted from discussing the affair.
Now the main topic of conversation is exposure.

We've seen this happen before MrA.

The fact that your wife is focused on DAMAGE CONTROL instead of MARRIAGE REPAIR is a big red flag to us.

You need to take back the wheel and start driving. Your next talk with her should be to request that she formally end her affair by writing a letter to OM stating there will be no further contact with him for LIFE.

It's called damage control, Mr. A., and you'll be painted in the worst possible picture. Your credibility will be damaged.

Are you in contact with her parents?

What about YOUR list of requirements for being married to this woman?

Take the wheel back, my friend. I'm sorry, but your wife is completely full of it and is just trying to regain the upper hand.

A buck gets you twenty that she's been in contact with OM since this all started.

Ahhh, Lexxxy beat me to it!

Please stop trying to reason with a drunk. It is a waste pf time. You are wasting your time with this. You do not allow the falling down drunk to dictate the terms of recovery. Your wife is not sincere about recovery and part pf the reason is because YOU are not taking this seriously. When you present your list of conditions in a serious and firm manner, and stop getting sidetracked with all this foolishness is when she will believe you are serious.

Yu do not have to present her with scripture. You have to present her with your CONDITIONS. How insane is it for an active adulterer and liar to demnad that you produce scripture to justify yourself? Ask her to show you scripture that justifies adultery and lying? Good grief! She was not throwing around scripture when she was taking her panties off with the OM, so her use of it now is more than a little hypocritical.

Show her your conditions, stick to your demand that she get a polygraph and STOP making excuses for a fantastic exposure. Exposure is NOT harmful and her objection is only a result of her fog. Don't enable that fog by giving her premise any credence.

Shes trying to focus on your actions to save the marriage instead of hers which are destroying the marriage. Stop being distracted, eyes on the prize my friend.

What about what her freaking affair has put you through?!?

Gimme a break!

What she *really* wants the list for is to say this to everyone you contacted:

"Hey, did you get this crazy note from Mr. Amazed with something about an affair or something? Yeah, that was just a big misunderstanding. You see, he heard me talking to Bill and thought I was cheating on him. Seriously, Bill is just a co-worker and we were going over this stuff for work. Have you ever heard of anything so crazy? We laughed about it all last night, but I just wanted to catch up with you to explain what happened so you didn't get the wrong idea about me! It's been one of those days, that's for sure [laughter]"


Ask her right back just WHAT scripture says it's ok for a married woman to commit adultery.

If she wants the list, give it to her. If she thinks that will help her ease her humiliation, let her do it. Just tell her that you think it might be counter-productive. But, then again, who knows? Either way, stay sympathetic to her feelings. Although she brought this upon herself, she is hurting.

I want to put it bluntly.

The marriage you had is over.

You can divorce, you can stay married to an unrepentant wife and try to appease her, knowing where that has gotten you, or you can forge a new marriage.

The second and third points cannot co-exist. You need to get that into your head.

This is what Mel told me early in my turmoil, it helped coalesce things in my thinking,

"ok, Herb, I am going to tell you straight. She probably is not in love with you and hasnt been for a long time. You let your marriage die on the vine.
Do you want back the same messed up marriage that led to this? you would be crazy to want that back."

The sooner you realize this, the better chance you have of changing things, if she goes along. You can't control that, you can't appease her into it, talk her into it. All you can do is be the man, the leader of the family, that God called you to be. If she want's to come along, great, but you can't do a thing about it one way or the other, you only control yourself.

If you have truly destroyed the affair, then step one is done.

P.s. DO NOT APOLOGIZE for exposing her affair. You did nothing wrong and apologizing is inappropriate and only allows her to continue to demonize you for doing something good. Apologizing to a manipulator is to hand her ammunition to use against you. She owes you an apology for putting you in that position.

Stick with the talking points I gave you and tell her you are sure sorry she put in that position a it you are willing to give her a chance to earn your forgiveness.

When she rants and raves and blames you, dont get distracted. Be a broken record and stick to your conditions. Tell her this what it will take to keep me in this marriage........

Lonewolf,

Why don't you start a thread of your own and share your story? You've been here a while, but don't post. It's kind of odd that you've posted on two threads - like you were waiting for this thread. I almost wonder if you're the pastor's wife that counseled against exposure.

Steph

Don't you DARE apologize to her for taking the necessary steps to save your marriage!

I think you should make a polygraph a requirement for her to return to the marriage. I guarantee you that she is lying through her wayward teeth.

Why are you allowing her to boss you around like this? YOU are driving the bus, Mr.A. Not your WW. She is trying to grab control from you.

Just tell her you let important people in your lives know about the affair so they could support your marriage. Leave it at that.

She wants to put a backspin on your exposure. Don't let her run the show like this.

Whenever she starts her "woe is me" speech in regards to exposure.

You say: "I will do whatever it takes to fight for our marriage"

Imagine her emailing people who never got your exposure letters and then she ends up in a bigger mess with people who had no idea of what shes been up to .

My wifes letter she wants to send out...


Hello � I am writing to all of you to share some sad, heart changing, amazing things. To begin with I don�t know who my husband ---- choose to share our struggle with an emotional affair that I was involved with off and on for 6 months. I am GUILTY of this and I have been persecuted by ---- � when I say this he chose to share the details of this with family, friends, co-workers of acquaintances and mine. By my actions he felt compelled by our God almighty to shame me into returning to him, hence saving our marriage. I don�t know if what he did will save our marriage or put it faster into destruction � I am still at prayer for that. I have always been a believer of Christ and was on fire for the Lord for a long time. I don�t know the point that I went from having God visit me daily to me only speaking of his name and not feeling is grace but by not having God in our lives � the devil was able to enter and enter he did. You may choose not to read anymore but what you read may change your life and maybe find your way to the Lord our Savior, our Redeemer. Before you read the rest of this story I want you to know I cast no blame on ---- for his actions as he felt he was at his end with me and knew of no other way to try to keep me but by shaming me. ---- and I have always appeared to be the perfect couple � we were till we slowly grew apart from one another we did not nurture and care for our marriage in a Christian manner, this is one reason why so many marriages end in divorce. This is NOT an excuse but it opened a hole in my life that allowed the devil to creep in and grasp a hold of. My �affair� started very innocently and preceded that way for sometime, in my mind. I sought conversations with this man for the purity of not having any conflicts with him, and he would cast no opinion on me. This should have never been happening as we as a couple should have been there for one another. As it flourished I began having feelings for this other man. I fought this battle in my heart and my brain for several months, as I would stop and say �what I am doing is wrong� but then I would �miss� having that friend of mine and he too would come back and contact me. I was battling my heart and had asked ---- for a trial separation, he refused me. I thought once again I could make my heart click for him � it would not because God was not yet back in our marriage � I was shoving him away.
The day that ---- sent out the letter requesting prayer for my affair that I was carrying on I was away with my daughter at a swim meet. He had sought counsel on public humiliation of cheating spouses, as I have never heard of this, and I don�t believe he handled the information correctly it opened a wide gate of hell not just for me but for ---- as well. He still stands strong by what he chose and this will be one thing that I will need to heal from the shame that he placed on me for my actions. I was angry, hurt and felt betrayed by him as he did by what I had done. I know the hurt I too was cheated on by my first husband, I know how could I be put through it one way then do it onto him � I don�t have an answer for that but God was not around us, we had shut him out. With my anger it turned to self-pity � I wanted nothing more than to kill myself I could not bare the shame of what I had done. I am a strong woman but the pity was stronger. I attempted on Sunday with my hand gun I had it to my head and then visions of me being splattered all over the car for my children to see left m shattered�but I still had not come to God for peace. Monday I drove to ****** to work and I cried and I tried to pray to God yelling my self-pity of my terrible act. nothing. I left work early because I could barely stand myself pretending to be fine. I went to my car and ---- had called and he was the last person I wanted to talk to, I hung up, so I thought. I got in my car and I had been listening to Christian Radio Station and it had someone speaking, last name of Rainey is all I can remember. He was speaking of him and his wife and how they were Christians and said they lived in a Christian home but in all reality they did not. They did not pray they did not have a relationship vertically or horizontally with our Lord Jesus Christ�He continued to speak and he mentioned his wife�s name, it was ---�. and I yelled and cursed at the radio, I said �Really GOD� That is just coincidence is it not? This gentleman had mentioned the book of Ephesians chapter 5 and I had my kindle with me (don�t do this while your driving as I did) and I opened my bible on the kindle to this chapter and began reading. I ended at Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. I felt that I too needed to end my life for my children, �why should I put my children through this shame when someone sees me they will see a cheater, a liar, a whore or insert word of your choice� �if I die, I will soon be forgotten and there will be no whispers��I drove done a lonely road to an area that had a lake I was going to drive my car into the lake as my husband took my hand gun away from me. Before I decided to take the final plunge I took a walk down a trail that was there, it was so cold on Monday afternoon. I wanted to think for a moment and remember my children and ask God to guide them at that moment I heard a voice commanding me to lay down right there it was an area with leaves and dirt but I heard it �Lay down right there� I did I could not stop crying out to God why have you punished me? I knew I had punished myself because of my choices. I went to God seeking forgiveness he forgives and he commanded me to forgive myself for the choices I made. As I laid there the wind was blowing so strong and I could feel the holy spirit moving I begged for cleansing of my soul and mind he spoke �if all things are gone in this world I will yet remain� �For those who judge you they too will be judged�. I know some will say she is crazy, I have never HEARD the voice of our LORD audibly EVER I can safely say today that I have. As I lay there and felt the wind blowing it became so still that I shuddered. But the next thing I heard was �Get up and MOVE, MOVE and go tell your husband you love him�. Move my anger Move my heart and Move my marriage is all that heard on the way home that day. I do know that God moved me and he is still moving me. I know that this is only the beginning of what his plan is for me/my marriage/my family, but I do know that the beginning with God is the BEST place I can be. All things are possible through him.
Some of you might close this up and say �wow those people are c r a z y� and that is true. But I can tell you this I shared this story with you today because I know I am not perfect and I have never claimed to be. I also know that some of you to may be suffering from being separated from our Lord Jesus, or infidelity, or addiction, or whatever it is that is keeping you from having a relationship with Christ. My story MAY or MAY not touch you but if you have read this all and wondering �why did she just share all of that?� Because God put things in my life to MOVE me and I am so thankful that I heard his voice that day because my family would still be searching for me today. I will never NEVER forget his mercy he showed me and giving me the opportunity to grow in him again.
With all of these things that have happened I pray and continue to pray that ---- and I can heal, I am and will continue to grow in the Lord. I pray for all of you. And I ask for prayer from all of you and I am so thankful for Gods Mercy.


��Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.[b]�

Exactly. Her plan is to find out who knows so she can defuse your exposure. She can't do that unless she knows exactly who knows. Don't give away any of your battle plans, MrA.

Oh, for crying out loud. These are the rambling, drooling mumblings of a fogged-out wayward. If your WW sends this to anyone and eventually de-fogs she will cringe in shame at her words.

Her letter is nothing but a manipulation tactic. If she was truly repentant, then it would be completely different.

She is fully blaming the demise of your marriage on exposure versus her adulterous azz.

Let her send it to whomever she wants. Don't let her know your exposure list.

MA, she can send out that letter and everyone can see how fogged out she is. That is cute and winsome.

Ok, now back to the PLAN. Can we please get back to business here? Your wife is about as foggy and unrepentant as they come. You need to focus on recovering your marriage and STOP GETTING DISTRACTED WITH FOGBABBLE.

Give her your conditions and start checking around for a good polygraph tester. PLEASE stay focused on your PLAN and stop wasting our time with her fog babble.

That letter is garbage! And highly insulting to you and everyone who would receive it.

She really thinks she can make everyone believe it was only an "emotional" affair, thereby minimizing it. Garbage.

Do not reveal who you exposed to. Do not play this game.
Get focused.

Refuse to discuss exposure with her ANY FURTHER!

Get to your list of requirements, pronto.

That's about the only part of the letter that's worth a damn.

Let her send it if she wants. If it's one long paragraph like that, no one will read it.

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do what MelodyLane just posted.

Get back on track, ok?

Mr. A,

No one cares here what your wife has to say until she says this:

"I'm sorry, what do you need me to do"

The Plan, Mr. A.

Go back to ML's list of conditions, and focus on that.

I am certain it's not easy to not get distracted, but you must stay in control and continue to stay the course. Calmly give her your list of conditions.

As ML says, focusing on her babble is like worrying about paint peeling in the girls bathroom on the Titanic. (How'd I do?)

I couldn't even get through the "letter", for Pete's sake, and all of the "I's" made my eyes bleed. Sheesh.

The gratuitous religious pandering did me in.

I'll admit I stopped when she put the word affair in quotes.

Disregard that nutty letter. She's lost at sea. You need to be the lighthouse.

High 5!

Well, I don't feel like starting a thread based on my story. It is over and I moved on. I don't want to elaborate as I don't want to t/j.
A short story is that I am a bs. 6 yrs ago, my W asked for separation and moved out. I soon found out she was having an A. I don't want to spill the details but it ended up breakup of my family with two kids(1 1/2 yr son and 6 yr daughter then) I was always a very proud man, and I just dismissed my XW as the skanky woman that did not deserve me, and left it at that. At least that was how I coped with that event. Since, I have been the primary custodian to my kids and the life has been hard as a single dad. Only recently, I realized how little I know about the psychology behind A. Also, at the same time, I began to see my contribution to the breakup of my M. So, I began my journjey of educating myself of infidelity. There are alot of regrets and whatifs looking back now. I wish I had informed myself better of what went thru my XW's mind at the time. I could have saved my M if I had known better seeking help thru these sites back then. Well, hindsight is always 20/20, they say. This is the gist of it.

I will admit I couldnt read the whole thing either, but it sounds like a typical:

I'M GOOD, YOUR BAD LETTER.


Tell her you like it but couldnt get past the third sentance. Also tell her it would be helpfull if she put in the letter what she was going to do to make things better for you and your family... How she was going to change for you, her family, and her marriage. Tell her that the letter would be better if it stated what she was going to do to earn your forgiveness. Then tell her that you love her and that all she has to do is committ to doing the things on the recovery list. God works through us, not on us.

Then tell her to print it out and give it to you and that is as far as it is going to go...

I say dont give the list....Or you will become the monster

I agree that he should not sincerely apologize for exposure. But, there are many different types of apology. The apology I meant was more like saying "I am sorry that I had to do this, but..." kind. I just feel that it is important that WW should feel connected with BH on an emotional level. But, again I do agree that he does not owe any sincere apology for exposure.

As for poly, I agree that there is alot of truth to dig, but rubbing poly on her face at this particular juncture may be too much for her. I would say, just ease off a little on it, and bring it up after a while. I was referring to the timing of demanding such, as she is terrified of how to face her colleagues at work right now.

This is rebellion.
Pure and simple.

And the other truth is ....

Mmmm, I don't think she's the weak little kitten that she portrays. Recall just before exposure she used sex to get the Mr. A to quiet down with the complaints about her affair(s). He did allude to there possibly being another OM--something about working out at a gym?

In other words, I think she's full of sh*t and Mr. A is in danger of buying some of it. But he seems like a smart guy and I trust he'll turn this around.

At this point, just seeing her reaction to his insistence of a poly would tell him everything that he needs to know.

No. He's NOT SORRY. MrA should be proud to have stood up for his marriage.

Anytime "I'm sorry" is followed by "but", the "I'm sorry" should be skipped entirely.

This has nothing to do with exposure.

The last thing on her mind right now should be her work buddies. She should be terrified that she is going to lose her marriage and her family.

If she cared about the disdain of her peers she should never have had the affair.

lonewolf, I would like to gently suggest that you read along for a while until you're completely comfortable with MB concepts.

I nominate for Fog Babble Hall of Fame.


Similar to when my wife emailed her friends and complained they weren't showing her "grace" when they condemned her affair actions.

Ring-a-ding-ding-dong, we have a winner!

I second that. It deserves a place by sheer length alone.

Yeess.. Mr. A, posting this not to be cruel, but review this post from you on 10/14:

"Thanks everyone. You know how to make it all reasonable. She is going out tonight with a bunch of friends in her industry (all girls - seen FB posts) and she is planning on being home early as she has to drive 4hr to my DD15 athletic event.

Since we departed lunch she is texting me about times we made love during the early years in crazy spots. Like she said earlier, she was getting the tinglies thinking about this morning when we made love. Ugh - is she feeling the spark or what here? Its all happening so fast."

And, we said she's lying, using sex to keep you at bay and manipulate, and going to see OM tonight. And, she did.

Then you wisely got a set and exposed, and we said she will go bat-crap crazy, behave like an alien to keep you at bay and manipulate you...and, she did and is still trying.

And, now we're saying to give her your list of conditions, and ignore the babble, blame-shifting and hate-spewing. To stay calm, and stick with the plan.

Mr. A, remember the WW post to that random website, and OM #2?

Very simple. Not easy, but simple. Stick. To. Plan.

Your wife is a WW, a liar and a manipulator. Stop worrying about justifying telling the truth.

Focus.

OK Mr A. We've told you to stop listening to a drunk, but you keep listening and then saying "She has a point though doesnt she?'

No. She doenst..

I want you to put yourself in HER shoes by imagining the following scenario...

Imagine you are one day slipped a mind altering drug. This drug makes you very selfish, and despicable but gives you total euphoria every day. You like it. You dont remember ever liking anyting else.

Once exposed to it, the effects can last up to two years. However your family dont know that you are drugged. Only that you have become cruel, distant, manipulative, secretive.

Soon after being slipped this drug, you completely stop caring about your family and you cheat on your caring, loving wife. This is something you never thought you would do before the drug. However when she is howling in pain, you dont care as much as you care about the drug. You are happy. So it must be right.

You even tell her it is her fault.

You have moments of clarity and feelings of guilt, shame and love for your wife. These moments seem convincing and genuine to her but the effects of the drug soon crowd those moments out.

Because you are a hopeless drunk, you blame your wife, the state of your marriage, the position of the stars, the shape of the moon, you say the devil made you do it - but you NEVER accept personal responsibility. You never admit that you could just take the antidote. Because that would mean you have the choice to stop.

You do very well hiding the secret of the fact you are drugged out and cheating - but one day your poor harrassed wife asks for the help of others in making you see sense. In making you see that you CAN stop it. That it is YOUR fault.

You are furious and ashamed. You dont want others to make you see that it is your fault. You dont want to change.

You can manipulate your wife's love for you - but you cant manipulate everyone. This scares you. What will you do if everyone makes you give up the drug?

Then one day, it could be after a few months or up to two years, the drug wears off. You are YOU again. Without it you realise you love your wife more than anything. You realise you would do anything to be with her. You remember that at one stage she asked you to take a poly to prove you were really clean and not cheating. That seemed like asking a lot at the time, but NOW - oh you would do anything to undo what you did under the effects of the drug. You would do anything to be trusted again. You would climb Everest barefoot to undo it all.

Really imagine for a moment that YOU had cheated. Imagine the shame. Imagine you regretted it beyond anything and wanted forgiveness. What would you NOT do for that chance?

THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO SEE FROM YOUR WIFE TO KNOW SHE IS NO LONGER WAYWARD.

If she is all 'ifs ands or buts' and 'prove telling the truth is right with scripture', she is just planning to cheat agan asap.

WHEN she is no longer drunk, you might tell her that God does not want to see the truth hidden for evil ends.

John 8:32

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Your heartbroken and regretting past descision LW. Why would she care what work thinks? What is her life supposed to be about anyways? Life as a wife and mother who works or a personality at work that happens to be married?

This should be just as important and issue to be cleared up as a form of sickness like cancer that would take her out of work to her employers. As a matter of fact, it is a form of cancer in her mind, that is eating up her insides as much as any internal organ can be attacked.


1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

She is trying to run the show, make her own rules, and use God as her excuse.

The only way out of this problem is repentance, and the truly repentant gives up on all methods of trickery and deciet, and puts thier life in Gods hands.

The truly repentant has nothing to hide, Gods sees it all, including thier own devices.

It is very sad, that a grown woman, who obviously claims to be a christian is so very unrepentant and so very justifying her totally unbiblical actions. She is lying and you know it.
And not only is she lying, she is USING (abusing) the name of the Lord to do so. This is so low.

This is frankly the most hysterical, hypocritical letter I have ever seen.
I surely hope, that you wake up and see that the road your wife has taken is not the way of the Lord. If she really heard a voice in the woods (which I doubt) that said not to judge lest you will be judged (which practically means nobody should even dare to speak evil of her - how practical for her) then you know who's voice that was. It was not the voice of God.

How can you let yourself be manipulated. She should start to live up to the standards she wants others to abide to.
This whole letter is only about how innocent she is, how you contributed to a bad marriage and how she just talked a bit too much (spiritual stuff of course) with an OM. Little miss Innocent.

Please wake up and read the 10 commandments some. Doesn't say there you dare not tell the truth, does it? But they do say do not commit adultery. There you have it.

Pray that God may open your eyes that you may see evil, where the devil is all dressed up as an angel of the light.

Happyheart

CV