Hello. I am new to this forum but have been reading some of the posts and feel it is a good place for me to get some support and answers.

I have been married for 24 years. My wife began her affair about two years ago with a close mutal friend, who's wife had just left him. We had also just went through a really bad 2.5 year stretch (3 deaths in our family, put down two long time pets, I lost my job twice, had to move several times, and we had a cancer scare with one of our kids). So I think it was a pefect storm.... he was splitting with his wife (my wife's friend since middle school) and we were coming out of a VERY rough time so they both were in need of comfort. Not making excuses for her, but like I said, it seems like it was the perfect storm.

She became very distant in 2010. And in 2011, New Years Day said she didn't want to be married anymore. I was shocked. I assumed it was all me and asked what I could do to change. On 1/7 she said she was in a relationship where she was always wrong. That broke my heart and made me think I was taking everything out on her when we went through the stressful times mentioned above. So I broke down and cried my eyes out and told her I love her and would never have done anything like that on purpose. We struggled for a few months and then began to work things out, or so I thought.

Then in August I confronted her and our friend and found out that it wasn't as much about me as I had thought. I told her I love her and still wanted to stay together. I felt marriages survive affirs all the time. But she said she wanted out. So we told the kids Mom was leaving, but didn't tell them about the affair. We have four boys (ages 18-24). She moved out in September. I didn't agree with it but love her and respect her and knew it was what she really felt she had to do so I didn't want to stand in the way.

It was very tough for me. And then out of the blue in the middle of October while we were visiting our youngest son in college. She says to me that she messed up and she was sorry. And she asked if I would take her back.... to which I replied.... I never let you go. I asked her how she wanted to handle it, did she want to do this slowly or what. When do you want to move back, I asked and she said tomorrow.

So that's what we did and things were amazing for the next three days. I assume there was no contact with OM during that weekend. However, I guess she talked to him when we got back to let him know she had moved back home, and I doubt he was willing to just go away and let us work on the marriage.... not that I figured he would, but it would have been nice if he gave her the same respect I did when she left, especially since we have all been friends for so many years, but maybe it's just wishful thinking or maybe it wasn't about him, maybe she is just confused or wants both of us in her life. I guess she felt she didn't want to lose him, not sure. So, the affair didnt' really end. About two weeks later she said she was thinking about moving back to the room she was renting. I said I didn't think that was a good idea to leave, come back and then leave again two weeks later. I didn't want to pressure her but I was obvisouly devistated that this was happening, and didn't want to confuse our kids even more. Plus one of the things she said she felt when she was out was distance from the kids. I said I think that would only be worse if she left us twice in two months. Ugh, it's been very difficult and confusing for me, but I truly feel she is in a crisis of some sort and is probably far more confused than I am. She just may not realize that and I doubt she is in a state of mind where she wants that kind of advice from me.

So she decided to stay at least for now. The affair is still going on and I am just confused. I have tried to be supportive but I also feel like I am just standing on the sidelines and supporting the affair rahter than supporting her.

I know she needs a husband to step up and fight for her. And trust me, I want to do just that but then I also hear that it's good to be patient and wait it out. She is a great woman and I don't want to loose her.... I am torn between letting her figure it out and putting my foot down

Sorry for the long post.... just giving you guys the story.

Thanks!
Giraffe

My advice is going to be the same as the advice you�re going to get from everyone else.

You need to expose this affair. That means that you don�t let her keep her dirty little secret anymore. Exposure is crucial to ending the affair and saving your marriage if it is salvageable.

Start with OMW. Odds are very high that the affair was a contributor to the demise of their marriage. OM are very good at exaggerating the status of the demise of their marriages when the OMW is often in the dark that the OM is having an affair.

Then tell your kids. That will put a HUGE amount of pressure on the affair because the kids will stand their ground and let her know that OM will never be welcome in their homes or around them. I tell you this because that is exactly what happened to my father with myself and my siblings. OW was never welcome near us and that isolation was a contributor to the end of this affairage.

Tell her family.

Exposure works. It brings the secret affair into the light and puts pressure on the affairees to end it.

It will cause her to be pi$$ed beyond belief. She will threaten you and say that you just ruined any chance you had to save the marriage.

This is normal, predictable, and expected. The best reaction to that is no reaction. It�s like being told that it�s raining outside. You expected it.

But you have NO chance to save your marriage so long as you protect her secret. Protecting the secret is enabling.

Don�t threaten exposure. Don�t warn her its coming. Just do it.

Everyone who is a veteran here will tell you that exposure is your first step in ending the affair. Anything else is pointless until exposure takes place.

Thanks helpthelostdads,

I have thought about telling her mom. Her mom knows that she left and came back but just thinks she is struggling with the financial issues we've had over the years or that she is trying to figure out who she is, etc. I have also thought about telling the OMXW, which as I mentioned is a long time friend of my wife. In fact, when I first confronted my wife, one of the things she asked was if I had told the OMW and if so, what she said. I didn't tell her because I am trying to protect the kids, ours and theirs (we have four, they have two).

You mention to tell our kids, but I don't know about that. I agree that it would probably put a lot of pressure on her, but I am concerned about upsetting them too much. And I don't want them to hate their mother. And even though our kids are older I think it will still be a struggle and OM kids are young so it really concerns me.

Thanks!
Giraffe

Giraffe, welcome to Marriage Builders, sorry you are here. What your wife needs is for you to stand up for your marriage. Waiting on the sidelines while she self destructs and your marriage erodes is a complacent approach that reflects a lack of caring. I don't think that is the approach you want to take.

The solution is to kill the affair if you want to save your marriage. And how do you do that? You start by exposing the affair to everyone and running the OM off. Exposure is the most powerful weapon there is to save a marriage. There is nothing more powerful. The OM is a coward who will run at the first sign of trouble. By allowing him to assault your marriage, he believes you will do nothing to stop him. And so far he is right!

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so helping them hide the secret is ENABLING the affair. As Dr Harley says, it is very hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. Exposing the affair is like bringing in a crowd of people to the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. It is no fun to get high when everyone is watching.

Here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, says about exposure: radio clip of Dr Harley speaking to betrayed husband

here

So, that is where is I would start. I would execute a very strategic exposure all on the same day to generate a tsunami effect. WITHOUT WARNING. Do not warn your wife in advance. Once your exposure is done, I would DEMAND that your wife end all contact with loser boy. Additionally, you will want to pay a personal visit to this loser [with your sons or some very big friends] and tell him the affair is over. Make his life a holy hell. He should hear from you every time he tries to seek her out.

A good exposure strategy would be to expose to your sons and your family members. Tell them all about the affair and encourage them to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair.

Other critical exposures will be to the OM's family and friends. If you expose to them, then he won't be able to introduce her to his family. It would be GREAT if your MIL or FIL could call the OM and his parents on your behalf.

I would expose the affair on the OM's facebook page, too. Copy and paste all his contacts into a WORD doc and send his contacts a private message. Here are some sample letters we have used. facebook exposures

You are clearly enabling the affair, my friend. By keeping their secret, you are aiding and abetting the destruction of 2 marriages. How does that "protect" your children? The OMW will not appreciate that you did this to her. OR HER CHILDREN. You have harmed her family, including her children and yours by helping them carry on this affair.

You are NOT protecting her kids or yours by enabling this affair.

This affair probably could have been killed a long time ago if you would have exposed it. It is your best chance now, but it will not be as effective because you covered up this affair for so long.

Hi MelodyLane,

Thanks for the welcome note, I'm sorry I'm here too

I have thought about exposure. I have been seeing a social worker and she said it's not good to tell the kids, and that they aren't stupid and they'll figure it out. But I feel they will, however, that won't happen until we're divorced and they see that Mom is dating the OM, which we all know him and his kids etc. I admit I really struggle with telling the kids.

I can't figure out why she came back, but then didn't end the affair. Is it because I am making it too easy for her? She actually told me that when I first confronted her. I guess she was expected a bunch of yelling and then kicking her out etc. But I didn't feel that way. Of course I am hurt and feel betrayed, angry etc but don't see how making a scene is a good thing and felt it would just bring them closer. However, I think now by not putting my foot down it is just enabling the affair.

Thanks again!

Yes, affairs upset kids. So do lies about the source of the tension in their home. Lying to your kids about the source of tension in their home makes them insecure, confused, and most of all, teaches them to be DISHONEST. Kids are not little idiots who cannot handle truth. Children are not made happy or secure by telling them lies and feeding them illusions about their parents.

Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, on telling the children:

here



here

here

G6,

Ok, so you're going to be one of those BH's. You'll make every excuse in the book for not exposing.

Your kids are older. They aren't little ones that need protecting. They know their family is falling apart. They don't fully understand why.

I can tell you as a man who went through this with his parents when he was 25 that the truth is nothing to be ashamed of.

No, your kids won't hate their mom. They will take out their hate on OM. But they will certainly be upset at their mom and will pressure her to end it.

Now, you want to save your marriage and you just explained to us that you will simply continue to endable her affair.

The affair will continue so long as you are the good little boy who sits quitely on the side and follows the plan of "hope". Hope won't get you anywhere. Hope will get you divorced. Hope will let your WW screw the other man without any pressure from anyone to end it.

Hope will allow your WW to introduce OM to the kids as her new boyfriend once she gets her divorce official.

So all you're doing by failing to expose is that you are enabling her affair.

We sound harsh in our advice to you, but it is inteded to wake you up.

So wake up. Stop enabling. Grow a set and expose because that is the only thing that will lead to the end of the affair.

In fairness, I have only known about the affair since August. it has been going on for two years but I just confronted them in August. And the OMW left him a few years ago, their divorce might even be final. I do feel I should tell her, so I agree that she might be upset that I have known since August and didn't tell her. I have thought about that a lot, actually. Again, I mentioned that to the therapist and she said it depends on my intentions. If I just want her to know the information that's good, but if I am telling her so that she can do the dirty work of exposing them etc. that's probably not a good idea. I guess that made sense to me.

If they were still married I truly believe I would have told her already.

Ugh.... I agree with you.... I am just confused!

I would not take advice from someone who is unqualified to counsel you about infidelity and does not employ basic common sense. This social worker is giving you dreadful advice. Telling you to lie to your children is just plain bad advice. And expecting them to "figure it out on their own" is gross dereliction of duty. Whose job is it to guide them through life and give them moral guidance? It is YOURS, Sir. It is not up to them to "figure it out on their own."


It is because the OM won't leave his wife for her. And you could force this to a head by exposing it. He would dump your wife in a second if his wife and parents all knew about the afafir.

helpthelostdads,

Wow, great honesty! I admit it was shocking and refreshing all at once. I am not trying to be one of those guys. I am just confused and trying to talk/figure this out. I am not opposed to exposure, I'm just affraid of hurting the kids. I do agree with you that not telling them the truth can also be harmful. I also agree that I don't like allowing them to think Mom just needs some time and space and she'll be back, etc.

Thanks (to you and MelodyLane) for the wake up call.... I mean that!

Again, more bad advice. Your intentions are irrelevant. What matters is that everyone concerned knows about the affair.


That is a GREAT IDEA. Exposure is not "dirty work;" it is shining the light on the dirty secret. It is "dirty work" to have an affair and hide it. Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer. Moss does not grow well in sunlight.

Again, your therapist is clearly not experienced or qualified to help you with infidelity.

You are confused because you are taking advice from a therapist who knows nothing about infidelity. Dr Harley, on the other hand, is a clinical psychologist who has SPECIALIZED in infidelity for 40 years. He is completely different in his tactics. While there are no guarantees, I will just tell you that many of us have saved our marriages using these tactics. When you ask those of us in recovered marriages how we saved our marriages, it is due to EXPOSURE.

MelodyLane,
Actually the OM's wife left him a few years ago. I thnk they are actually divorced by now. But I still think that her knowing would put pressure on him. But I agree that exposing my wife to her/our family would put a lot of pressure on her.... why do I not want to do that?!?! I want her to end the affair and I want her back.

Thanks MelodyLane and helpthelostdads,

I am surprised by the brutal honesty I am getting, but I agree it's what I need to hear. I don't need a hug, I need a kick in the pants.... thanks! It's tough to find out the person you have spent the past 25 years with, raising four kids, etc is doing this.

Most counselors will give you horrendous advice. I had one that told me to go along with my WW's desires since it was a phaze and she would eventually come back.

Know what it got me? Divorced. She latched on to the advice and used it to get me to agree to her desires with the idea that if things were amicable that we wouldn't have damage to our relationship and we'd be back together.

I fell for it.

On the opposite end I had MB, which was advising me to do what didn't feel natural and even felt wrong. I didn't listen.

In hindsight, I wish I had grown a pair mainly so I wouldn't look back in shame at how much of a doormat I allowed myself to become.

Expose. It will be the best thing you can do to end the affair.

Expose to her mom first. Then call your kids. Then tell the ex.

Tell her siblings and close friends as well.

Let them all know that you want to save your marriage but that you need their support.

Then brace yourself. The storm of anger that will come your way will have you second guessing exposure.

It's predictable and part of the script.

Why do you not want to do that? Because it is scary!! No one wants to do that. Your wife will be FURIOUS! She will threaten you and rant and rave and may possibly even leave for a while. But she will calm down and come back. There is no future in her affair and she knows that.

Exposing it will force her off the fence by bursting the FANTASY.

Once you expose the affair, you will be AMAZED at how EMPOWERED you suddenly you feel. You will be taking back control of your life. This is your BEST CHANCE of saving your marriage, my friend.

None of us wanted to do it. But once we did it, we were SO GLAD WE DID!!

man, I DO feel like a doormat at times.... and I certainly feel like I need to grow a pair. I love her and feel I would fight for her.... but I also realize I'm not doing that! I am just standing on the sidelines waiting it out.... what have I been thinking.

With the holidays coming what do you suggest? Is this something I should do over the holidays, now or after? Three of our four are away but everyone will be home for Thanksgiving.... should I have them do this over the phone before hand so we can begin healing over Thanksgiving or wait until turkey day to drop it on her? Just trying to make a plan.... Her mom is local and will be over, but her dad lives out of state.

Giraffe, I would also caution you against doing a trickle exposure. That means exposing to 1 or 2 people. What that does is do just enough to infuriate the affairees but it is not enough to kill the affair. The result is your WW comes after you with RENEWED hostility, which just wears you down faster.

So, do it right or don't do it at all. In your case, I predict exposure has about a 50/50 chance of killing this affair. If all family members on both sides [OM and your WW] know about the affair, there will be no future here.

Do it now, before the holidays. She will feel the massive pressure. No need to sit and pretend all is well when it isn't.

My mother exposed my father's affair before Thanksgiving and he was all wheepy and whiny for Thanksgiving.

But it was the final straw for all of us. We had forigven him once and weren't willing to forgive again.

But your situation is different. The kids supsect, but they don't know.

So expose. Start with the order I gave you. Make the calls.

Do it now. Today. Right after reading this message. Don't apologize for exposing the truth and NEVER apologize for exposing.

Do it. Nike. Just do it.

Get going.

Now would be the perfect time because you can hope the affair will end before the holidays. She will have to face everyone at thanksgiving and answer for that if not! I would encourage your sons to call her up and persuade her to end her affair. Give them the OM's phone # too!

Another postive about exposing now is that she will be discouraged from leaving when her boys are coming for the holidays. How will it look if they all come home to Thanksgiving and she is off running with her sleazy OM?? The reality of doing that to her family will hit her HARD. And that is what you want.

Oh, yes, having the kids call OM would be massive pressure to end it.

Understand that the hatred you fear will be directed at HIM. He will face the wrath of the children and it won�t be pretty.

I would personally make phone calls to her parents, your parents, your children and the OMW. Ask the family members to call her up and use their influence to persuade her to end her affair.

ON THE SAME DAY, send this email out to other family members and close friends:


Send something like this to the OM's facebook contacts:


Facebook exposure pointers

* Go to the OP's facebook page and copy and paste all his contacts into a WORD/text doc


* organize the contacts in order of priority starting with parents, family, married friends


* change your facebook photo to one of you, your spouse and your children


* send your letters via private message


* SPACE THE PM'S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO YOU ARE NOT SHUT DOWN FOR FLOODING

I would also tell loserboy that there is no future in his affair because he will be ETERNALLY HATED BY YOUR KIDS AND THE IN-LAWS FOR BREAKING UP THEIR FAMILY.

did either of you use this and if so, did it save your marriage?

Hi Giraffe,

I haven't posted to your thread before, but I used exposure and it ended the affair. What might yet save my marriage is our diligence in using the MB programme to eliminate marital programmes and build a new relationship. Exposing and ending the affair is the first step toward recovery.

I agree with the exposure with everyone close to your wife and the OM's family as well......your children can be told, as long as you approach it with the intent of saving the marriage and the family......your boys will understand, I told mine when they were 20 and 22.........
I just made sure that I spoke to them a lot and opened up the door for any questions they had........
My boys worried about me and what would happen......it helped to reassure them.
Your sons may surprise you how much help they can be to you and your wife.....
Your wife and the OM will be angry so what you can survive that, you can't survive them staying together, what are you going to do help her pack her bags when she decides she is going to him for good?
Just tell her that you will do what ever you have to do to keep your marriage in tack and your family together, just keep saying it like a broken record......
Then you ask your wife to chose if she won't give up the OM then she needs to leave and she needs to get on with her life without her family........when you stop meeting her emotional needs she gets from you she will have to face the reality of her life...........
The sooner you do the exposure the sooner your life can get back to what you want it to be...........
I will tell you this, when my boys were told I think that is the thing that showed my husband what it was he would be giving up.........they barely spoke to him for months............it opened his eyes..............

Thanks SugarCane!

This has been very welcomed advice. I agree but I admit I'm scare of the outcome, especially when it comes to the kids (ours and his). Sounds like your situation is similar to mine.... my wife has been in the affair for around 2 years and your situation was 3 years? We've been married for 24 years.... it just feels scary. I wonder if it will just push her away or how the OM will react. I also wonder how her family will do.... they may not be interested in taking part. I talked to her mom and she said she isn't the person to give relationship advice and we should just let her do what she needs to do.... keep in mind she doesn't know about the affair, just that my wife left and came back and now is thinking about leaving again.

I summarised my story two days ago for someone else, so I will just copy that post here:

Where do I find what all of the acrunyms are in your signatures? DH, WS, etc.... Some I can figure out but others I'm not sure what they mean

To that post, I added:

Here:

Acronyms and abbreviations

Thanks jessitaylor!

Our kids are pretty much the same age.... 18, 20, 22 & 24. They haven't asked many questions but they assume mom just needs some time and space. They were confused, and they were very happy that she came back. They don't know she is thinking about leaving again and they don't know about the affair either. I don't like keeping it from them!

we have a very close family but not a very open family! We're kind of strange like that So I am concerned how her family will respond to exposure, or even our kids. They will certainly be upset and probably won't have any problems showing that, but again, I just don't want to make them hate their Mom.

You want to stop them from showing their mother their very justified outrage and hurt at her betrayal?

You want to stop her from hearing and experiencing how they feel?

Why?

G6,

You�re killing me. Quit making excuses and expose. Your kids won�t hate their mother because kids don�t hate their mothers!

Will they be angry? Absolutely.

But I can tell you as a kid who went through this at their age that the ultimate outcome your kids will want is to see an end to the affair and you and your wife back together.

I�m telling you this as a child who went through this!

I would also contact OM after the exposure is done and make sure he understands that you�re able and willing to make his life a living he77.

Also, look into whether or not your state has an alienation of affection law. You can sue him for this for consciously boinking your wife while she�s married.

Now, think about this for a sec: YOUR WIFE IS SCREWING ANOTHER MAN AND YOU�RE AFRAID OF HER?

Think! Quit letting fear control you and man up. Expose.

Stop making excuses and do it. It�s the number one killer of affairs on this forum.

Does it guarantee it will end? Not necessarily. The affair has been going on a long time, so exposure may not kill it, but it will certainly bring a lot of pressure on the affair from everyone.

And don�t assume anything about your MIL. She may not know what to say because she has no clue that her DD is having an affair! She might go ballistic and step in as mom with massive 2x4s of truth.

But nothing will happen if you simply sit idle and hope. That�s not going to do a thing for you.

Your kids will be grateful to know the truth. Trust me on this.

G6 .. I am sorry you are here. This is the best place for you to be at in a time like this. This message board knows EXACTLY what needs to be done. Listen to Melody and the other vets. I know some of it sounds counter intuitive but believe me .. your gut is telling you that its what you need to do. Dont stand by and let your wife and this OM destroy your family. Expose this far and wide in one swift swoop. Your marriage can survive your wifes temporary anger for doing so but it can NOT survive her back and forth between you and OM.

Expose it ... and DEMAND no contact then follow the MB program here to rebuild what you once had.

Here is what the bible says about exposing sin.

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

DO not delay ... the quicker you get this done the sooner you can rebuild your marriage with the tools here and create a safe place for your wife to land when her fog lifts after her withdrawl period.

Thanks MrNiceGuy.... I like your title.... I feel that's me, but I also am believing that nice guys finish last

Were you in this situation yourself? I am just trying to hear stories of others.

helpthelostdads, sorry man, not trying to frustrate you. I am not making excuses, well maybe I am but not on purpose. I just want to think this through. I want to have a plan before moving forward.

Thanks to all.... keep the posts coming, it IS helpful!

Isn't it up to them how they feel? Illusions do not make people happy or secure, Giraffe. And it sure does not help your wife to protect her from the natural consequences of her destructive behavior.

Paralysis through analysis isn�t a plan.

You�re not frustrating me. Give me 3 days of hemming and hawing and I�ll be frustrated.

I know this is hard and it sucks. But all I can do is tell you that there are countless stories of success here when exposure happens while there are NONE when it doesn�t.

I�ve seen exposure kill affairs within minutes. I�ve seen waywards who are so entrenched that exposure doesn�t do anything at first.

Some marriages are not savable because the affair is so deeply entrenched and the fantasy so strong that the wayward doesn�t leave it at first.

Most affairs end up failing and burning out.

But not exposing is enabling.

Look, jumping out of a plane requires faith that your chute will work. The first time you do it is probably very scary, but it gets easier and easier the more you do it.

Jump! Pull the cord. Trust us. Your chute will open.

But not exposing is basically a jump where you�ll never pull the cord and hope you land on a giant sponge on the ground below.

Will your marriage be saved if you expose? No way of knowing. Will it fail if you don�t expose? More than likely. Not exposing is like hoping the alcoholic quits on their own. It�s not going to happen.

Exposure is nothing more than affair intervention.

The affair is pushing her away. And the longer you allow it to go on, the more entrenched it gets. The OM needs to be worried about YOU. You need to make him worry about YOU. He needs to understand that hell is coming his way if he doesn't stay away from your family.


That is ok if they don't take part. But if you ask her to use her influence to persuade her daughter to end her affair, she may help you. And if not, that is ok too, just the fact that her mother knows will cause embarrassment for your wife. And it will also make it harder for your wife to introduce the OM into the family. Your MIL will know he is a punk and home wrecker.

Mel, your last post was missing a vital clip. It's just not the same without it.

heheheheee

G6, can you tell we've been doing this a while?

Watch it as many times as necessary for testicular regeneration to take place.

My wife was in what I still believe was an EA with our pastor. It went on for months, and I knew about it. Since it was EA, exposure really never crossed my mind. My marriage went down and down. I found MB and still hesitated, even after getting the same 2x4's that it seems every BS that arrives here gets when I thought my story was different and exposure was something I didn't want to do.

After a month or so, I finally did it, and the affair started dying then. It came back a little later, in "secret", but by then I was a pretty good snoop and exposed again. I think it killed it completely.

I will always wish I had done it at the beginning.

So exposure is vital.

The path after exposure is not certain, but the path without it is.

I want to put it bluntly.

The marriage you had is over.

You can divorce, you can stay married to an unrepentant wife and try to appease her, knowing where that has gotten you, or you can forge a new marriage.

The second and third points cannot co-exist. You need to get that into your head.

This is what Mel told me early in my turmoil, it helped coalesce things in my thinking,

"ok, Herb, I am going to tell you straight. She probably is not in love with you and hasn't been for a long time. You let your marriage die on the vine.
Do you want back the same messed up marriage that led to this? you would be crazy to want that back."

The sooner you realize this, the better chance you have of changing things, if she goes along. You can't control that, you can't appease her into it, talk her into it. All you can do is be the man, the leader of the family, that God called you to be. If she want's to come along, great, but you can't do a thing about it one way or the other, you only control yourself.

When you have truly destroyed the affair, then worry about the rest.

Your wife had an affair, and you think you wronged her.

The things you tolerated to keep the peace, to keep her "loving you" got you where you are.

My middle name was "conflict avoidance."

I am divorced.

You are headed that way if you don't listen.

Do you want to go back to anything close to your old marriage that got you where you are today?

No. Doormats finish last.

Giraffe, my H had an office affair. The OW's husband knew for about three months before he exposed. The affair ended the day he exposed.

Don't sit on your hands, sir.

Short story to show it's effectiveness.

I worked with Steve Harley during my W's A. At the time, based on my W's serial cheating, alcoholic, wife abusing OM's character, and the fact that he'd moved 200 miles away from us, Steve advised me to expose to OMW only and then to monitor the results. So I did. The A survived that exposure because OM and OMW lived 1000 miles apart and OM was just biding his time until divorcing her anyway. The reason for this limited exposure was to try and end the A with out any collateral damage.

So 7 months later, when I'd finally had enough and was ready to file for D, I decided to expose to my kids because I didn't want them thinking that BOTH their parents had abandoned them, which is what I felt I would have been doing if they didn't know the truth.

I told my oldest son on a Saturday (he was away at school) and returned home on Sunday to tell my younger son. My younger son went off my W. Made it very clear if she insisted on OM being in her life, then she could count on him not being in it. He even told her if she didn't at least try to make our marriage work, he was going to live with me and would NEVER visit her. And if he was forced to visit her (he was 16 at the time) he would sit there and not say a single word to her.

She was angry. Boy oh boy was she angry. But ya know what? The A was over the next day. Recovery started after she'd got thru withdrawl from the POSOM.

And now? Our marriage is better than ever. My W and our son's have great relationships. Counseling with Steve was great and without him, I'd have never got thru this, but one thing I do wish is I'd have exposed to my boys at the same time I did OMW. I understand his reasoning and it all worked out in the end, but it might have saved me 7 months of pain.

My W hated me at the time for telling the kids, but now she knows and agrees it's the single most important thing that saved our marriage.

So yeah, it works.

H4U

Was I in this situation myself? My wife and i were very close to it but it did not reach the point in which a physical affair began. My wife and I both pretty much had EA's (emotional affairs) without realizing what we were doing or how it was effecting each other emotionally and how it effected our marriage.

Once I found this place .. and did a wack of studying I learned what I was doing wrong (not meeting my wifes emotional needs) becasue i learned Exactly what she needed .. in turn she learned what i needed and eventually our withdrawl turned into conflict .. then back into intimacy again. During this time I also learned what was draining us ... and worked at eliminating our independant behaviour and forever ongoing .. eliminating lovebusters.

As complicated as MB feels .. it really is simple. We are just so busy with life that we forget about our partners. This site has some great tools to relearn eachother again and keep learning forever. Our needs change over time .. so its great that it can be evaluated and adjusted as life moves forward. The policy of joint agreement is also huge.

You can read my thread if you like .. but my judgement on how exposure is effective comes from reading countless threads here where the poster exclaims how they dont feel they should expose then weeks later come back to tell us they should have done it sooner after the forum members excalim over and over again (just like here) to just get it done. THEN once the exposure is done .. you begin plan A with a carrot and a stick approach and be the "prefered choice" between you and OM as your exposure makes the fantasy of the affair get ugly very fast.

NOw .. this doesnt always work .. if you read my thread you will see towards the end how my wife and I handled my wifes mothers affair as we did the foot work for grandpa since he is computer illiterate and how he also ignored our advice and listened to his pastor instead of us and the advice we had been advised to give him. HE regrets now not listening to us since everything we told him would happen did happen and we also gave him the answeres too .. but he based all his decisions on his FEELINGS. Feelings lie and can be temporary .. just like your wifes feelings towards OM are a lie in her heart. SHe doesnt see clearly as her Feelings fog her moral judgement and her taker side of her personality is only replaying all the bad things you have done in her mind to justifiy her affair.

I kid you not ... once you expose this affair, this fantasy will erode and the OM will get uglier. Especially if you are still in your home. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME! meanwhile .. you are snooping on her without her knowing but also treating your wife better than ever to regain some of the overdrafting you have done to her love bank.

But know this ... everytime she has contact with OM .. she will start her withdrawl ALL OVER AGAIN as if it was day one. her feelings will go crazy each time because she hasnt had enough time with this guy to create any conflicts for him to withdrawl enough love units for her to not love him.

So .. dont be hasty in putting your foot down. You can be a MrNiceGuy with firm boundries (plan A carrot and stick), not a MrDoorMat and completely ignore your own self worth. You are both 50% responsible for the condition of your marriage ... however your wife is 100% responsible for her affair.

Sorry for rambling .. i get all over the place sometimes.

MNG

This is where you are in error in your thinking. Exposure won't necessarily save your marriage. But it will likely end the affair and thereby stop your marriage from being immediately destroyed.

You are worrying about remodeling the house when the floor is rotten and you are falling through it.

First things first.

Do you want your wife to keep on doing what she is doing just so no one is mad at her? Read that and see how stupid that sounds.

I am telling you straight because I said and did the same things. I cannot look back and even recognize myself in the man that avoided doing the necessary things. That is my biggest regret.

I tried to let the affair die on its own without coming out. All I did was enable it. It is obvious now, obvious to everyone on here that eventually read my story, but my beaten up, twisted up brain at the time could not see it. In the end, the time I let it go one so long may have contributed to the ultimate demise of my marriage. How could my wife respect me? It was easy for her to convince herself that I was being vindictive the longer I had let it continue.

Believe me, she will be mad, furious, say everything you dread to hear. The longer you wait, though, the less there will be to return to.

MelodyLane and helpforlostdads.... thanks for the clip.... I LOVE the movie!

And yes, I can tell you guys have been doing this for a while. I am glad I haven't been. Our there links to stories of success on here?

I am excited about this information abu I am also concerned (it keeps coming back to the kids). I have been praying and asking others to pray for me/us and the daily bread has been very helpful.... it's been a amazing how many of them have felt like they were directed straight at me!

You have got to realize this, this is vital and you keep sidestepping it.

Success at this point really has nothing to do with your marriage, only stopping the affair.

If you are waiting for someone to come on here and say, "Just expose, and your marriage will survive and be better than ever,guaranteed" then just stop wasting your and everyone else's time.

Everyone will tell you that not exposing, well, you may as well start looking into how things are gonna get split up.

If you want a guaranteed result before you act, then just stay the course, you marriage failure is guaranteed.

If you want a chance for a different outcome, a chance, then listen and act. It is the only chance you have. The longer you put it off, the smaller it gets.

You can ask those of us who are in successful marriages what helped; just read around! I can assure you that most will tell you that exposure saved their marriages. It is the most powerful weapon you have. It is no guarantee, but you will have lost nothing if you do it. At the very least, your kids and your family won't welcome the OM into their family if it ever comes to that.


WE are concerned too, because your current strategy of enabling the affair is the surest way to end up divorced. Even though your kids are grown, that will devastate them. They should be the most compelling reason for your exposure. It is for their FAMILY. Just imagine how tragic it will be to have to attend their weddings and graduations with the OM sitting there? Every family gathering will be a nightmare from here on out.

You can't work on your marriage until you have a marriage again.

You have to do the first thing first and not back off and apologize when she explodes.

If you are chicken####, then it is not for you.

There is no guarantee it will even stop the affair. The only guarantee is what will happen if you don't act.

Giraffe, the only guarantee we can give you is that you will end up divorced if you don't. You are headed to divorce now and she will eventually leave you for the OM. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger over exposure, but it won't survive this ongoing affair.

I would also add that your complacence reflects a lack of caring. If your marriage means anything to you, why wouldn't you fight for it? Why wouldn't you step in to help your wife in her greatest time of need?

If/when the affair fog ever wears off she will wonder why you did nothing to help her. Do you realize that?

You are much like the spouse who allows the falling down drunk to go drunk driving. Wouldn't it be an act of love to take the car keys away even though you know it will make her mad?

Hi there again.

Your children are adults, have you considered holding a family meeting with them, you and your boys telling them what you are dealing with and discussing the next step with them, I think when you explain exposure to them and the benefits of it I think you will see that they will understand and encourage you to do that if it meant you had a chance to keep their family together.......
If they know you respect them enough to be straight with them and to let them in on what is happening to their family.........they might surprise you, make it clear that they don't have to chose between the parents or help if they chose not to.....
You forget the power of the children mother bond, I know my husband has said he children knowing was the most hurtful part in it for him, he even said that he was trying to be like my oldest son that he was a good man and he knew he let them down as well as me..............
The whole family unit is better now, we all learned a lot about each other and what we could believe, we learned with love and honesty we could all be stronger and more of a family, don't kid yourself your boys have felt something was wrong............probably for a while...............
Let them help you .......
Don't let fear take your life from you...........only a fool would let some useless OM take what is his........fight for your wife and family...........

Thanks again.... you are correct.... I do need to take it a step at a time. I have been looking at the big picture and what will save my marriage etc. I do need to focus on ending the affair and fighting for my wife! I do need to do what is best for my kids, and what is best to save our family. I realize it's not a guarantee but the current strategy of letting her treat me as nice or mean as she wants and call me her best friend while having sex with our friend isn't exactly a good plan.... I don't like the results so far

I guess when she left I felt it was what I needed to let her do. I had to give her time and space and I don't regret that at all. But now that she came back, but then wanted to leave again and didn't stop the affair. This strategy is certainly not working.... and I feel by being quite the only person talking to her is the OM, therefore he's the only one she has to listen to.

When she moved out I admit I didn't know if she still loved me or even liked me. But when she came back to me, it was out of the blue and with such passion and honesty. It left no doubt that she is in love with me still. Of course the OM was still in the picture and again, he was probably doing a lot of talking while I was just being quite. I guess I just convinced myself that she is confused and will come around and start thinking straight but I realize that's not a good approach. I DO love my wife!

Giraffe, we ARE looking at the big picture. The advice we are giving you is intended to save your marriage. It is the most effective way to save a marriage.

Killing the affair is only the first step. Once you kill the affair, we will give you a PLAN to recover your marriage. But nothing you do will work until you first kill the affair.


She moved out in order to carry on her affair. That is the ONLY REASON. Maybe it was your goal to facilitate the affair, but getting "space" did not help your marriage, it helped her AFFAIR. If she wanted some "space" she could have gone in the bathroom and shut the door. She only wanted to be able to carry on her affair unimpeded. That is the ONLY REASON she moved out.

That is really up to her, not you. I don't believe you could make your children hate their mother if you tried.

You also can't make them like their mother, either.

Really in the end, their feelings for her are going to be primarily determined by the type of life she leads.

Amen.....

You have some of the most knowledgeale people posting to you. It has to imply something when they are saying to do the same thing and giving you great stories to back up what they are saying.

By the way these are not made up stories but real stories that have been led and read here on MB.

Expose ASAP. Expose everyone. When WW explodes upon hearing you exposed her, tell WW if you think what you are doing is right then why should it bother you that everyone knows the truth.

Then change the subject.

Well here's another one directed at you - in MB parlance, these are known as 2X4's. Something it is obvious that you desperately need.

Quote

I didn't agree with it but love her and respect her and knew it was what she really felt she had to do so I didn't want to stand in the way.

Yes, much better to just stand by while the affair continues. Doesn't require any effort beyond ignoring what's happening right in front of you.

Quote

She says to me that she messed up and she was sorry. And she asked if I would take her back.... to which I replied.... I never let you go. I asked her how she wanted to handle it, did she want to do this slowly or what. When do you want to move back, I asked and she said tomorrow.

But when she came back to me, it was out of the blue and with such passion and honesty. It left no doubt that she is in love with me still.

WW do this when they don�t want the cost of having to support themselves. Why live somewhere else when she can still boink your �friend� whenever she wants to while she has a place to stay and have you pay for it?

Quote

and I doubt he was willing to just go away and let us work on the marriage.... not that I figured he would, but it would have been nice if he gave her the same respect I did when she left, especially since we have all been friends for so many years, but maybe it's just wishful thinking or maybe it wasn't about him, maybe she is just confused or wants both of us in her life.

Are you for real? Willing to go away and let you work on the marriage?!!! The guy is screwing your wife, why would he want to stop? Out of concern for your feelings?!! C�mon guy, get your head out of your culo, wouldja?

Quote

And trust me, I want to do just that but then I also hear that it's good to be patient and wait it out. She is a great woman and I don't want to loose her.... I am torn between letting her figure it out and putting my foot down

Letting her figure out what? That cheating is wrong? Think she has a pretty good handle on that one. Looks like she has a pretty good handle on not fearing any adverse consequences coming from you either. Great women don't have affairs with family "friends".

Quote

I agree that it would probably put a lot of pressure on her, but I am concerned about upsetting them too much. And I don't want them to hate their mother. And even though our kids are older I think it will still be a struggle and OM kids are young so it really concerns me.

I have been seeing a social worker and she said it's not good to tell the kids, and that they aren't stupid and they'll figure it out.

This has got to be one of the more ignorant things that I have read here in a while. So if they can figure it out, how is it bad to tell them?!!! That make sense to anyone here? Why not tell them and get it over with? What are you teaching your boys? How to roll over and die?

Fear, that's what it's all about. You're afraid. Your fear makes you a spectator in your own life. You're watching the destruction of your marriage and you...do....NOTHING.

Stop thanking us for advice and start following it.

Hi MelodyLane, I felt the same way. But then she came back and it felt very sincere and honest. I was surprised she came back and even more surprised that she was right back in the affair within two weeks.

Not trying to make excuses I'm just trying to think things through.

Hi Americajin,

Thank you for the post and for the brutal honesty.... there seems to be a lot of that going around. Which I admit it's probably exactly what I need to hear. I am just stunned by what my wife is doing. And you are right, it was stupid for me to think he would go away when she came home and give us a chance. He betrayed me once, why did I think this would be any different.

Thanks again. I didn't read these last night.... I just took a break from the posts and just really gave this all a lot of thought and prayer.

I am concerned about the kids, mine and his. I know I keep going back to that but it's really the big sticking point for me. Our kids know his kids and I just wonder how that is going to go over. I know she will be upset with me, I expect that. And I'm sure the OM will be too. I am not as concerned about that as I am about the kids involved. I know you will all say if I'm concerned about them then why do I keep this secret from them. Trust me, that has been on my mind well before I even saw MB. I don't like keeping this secret from my boys.

I do admit that since d-day in August I have felt I am protecting her, but all I'm really doing is protecting her secret. She even told me I am making this easy for her. She even expected a different response from me. UGH!

I also mentioned this yesterday, but doing this around the holidays just feels wrong to me. But I also don't think faking happiness and hiding is good either, anytime of the year!

What she is doing is called manipulation. It keeps you behaving while she goes on cake eating.

It will continue as long as you allow it to.

You are responsible for how you let others treat you. You are ultimately responsible for your own misery.

So what will you choose? Will you chose to take steps to attack her affair? Or will you sit by and hope she ends it?

You are so correct! I know this, man I'm just scared. You called me on that yesterday, I think a few folks in here did. I think this is a good approach but I am affraid of exposure. Not so worried about her getting upset, I expect that. I just don't know.... I can't seem to do it, but I gave it a lot of thought last night and just need to make a plan with emails etc since some of her family isn't in the area.

I am just emphasizing that she moved out to carry on her affair without interference. The affair never ended. It is CLASSIC. And most WW's want to move back when they find out how hard it is to live away from you. The fact that she was "sincere and honest" does not change that.

Go read Surviving an Affair about Sue and Jon. Sue did the exact same thing. She moved out so she could carry on her affair without interference and was a yo yo for several weeks because she got homesick. The affair was ongoing all that time.

Thanks Mel.... and I agree! However, she did say after about two weeks of being back home that she was thinking about moving back to the room she was renting. I suggested that might not be a good idea and would probably not look good for the kids if she left us twice in two months. She thought about it and then decided to stay. I realize that doesn't mean much, if anything probably just means when she told him she moved back home he tried to talk her into moving back out, etc. Oh boy!

Exposing the affair at ANY TIME will always feel wrong. But feelings are not truth. And you shouldn't rely on feelings right now. Just do what is right for your marriage and family, Giraffe.

What better time to take this step to save your marriage than at the holidays? That will be your greatest gift to your family. Taking a step to save their family is the greatest gift you can give them.

All of your children [both families] are not made happy or secure by lies and illusions. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. Lies and infidelity are poison to their lives, but bringing it all out into the open is like chemotherapy to cancer. They need to see how a good, decent man handles such adversity. He openly addresses the sin and handles it head on. He does not help the cheaters hide their secret.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. John 3:20-21.

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11

We know this fear very much, my friend!! We have all experienced it before we exposed. We know it is scary. What it takes is a determined approach to walk through the fear. Courage is a decision and you have the ability to make that decision.

Do you want your wife home for Christmas? Then kill this sordid, sewer infested adultery today.

Your gut, intuition, the thing that talks to you, is telling you to tell the children. You know why it is telling you this? Because your gut, intuition, and the voice inside of you knows, this will kill the affair dead in its track.

Kill this cancer today.

Then get your four kids, get the family Christmas tree, and start making it the best darn Holiday season. Go on vacation over Thanksgiving. Every weekend gather by the tree, wrap presents, even bring out the stockings - Santa is coming this year. Go ahead act like they are small children. Make it the best time of your life. Get out all their baby pictures, child pictures, high school pictures and use them as ornaments this year. Make it all about family, and your WW can either join you or pout in the corner.

Let that wh0re of a wife of yours watch you and your children have the best darn time of your life. She can sit and wallow in her anger and pity party without you all. She did this, and she can get a mop and clean up the sewer. Who the heck cares if she is angry. She did this and only she can fix it.

You will no longer tolerate her crapping all over you, your marriage, your children, your children's children any longer.

Nuclear bomb explosure today. Your children and his children first!!!

I would say something, but, honestly, I'm speechless.

When I was in the AF, I had to jump off of the 10 meter platform. I am afraid of heights. I get weak kneed. Yes, it is ironic: I�m a former pilot who is afraid of heights.

I had to stand at the edge of the platform over the pool. I was terrified, but I had to jump off and was required to do it.

I had to conquer my fear and just do it.

That�s what you need to do.

Try to be James Bond. Pretend you�re playing a role and are now the new James Bond. How would he act? What would he do?

Use that if it helps you. I tried to emulate Mr. Spock when I was going through my mess and it helped me do the things I needed to do, though I didn�t do it often enough.

The best advice I ever got from anyone was that I needed to be ice cold and show her as little emotion as possible. Let her guess what I was up to and thinking.

I DIDN�T FOLLOW ANY OF THE ADVICE I WAS GIVEN! I ended up divorced.

If I had followed the advice I was given I may or may not have ended up divorced, but I would look back with pride instead of shame over the doormat I allowed myself to become.

Of course, she moved out so she could have 'space' to have her affair in peace. She moved back because she felt guilty, and she probably was trying to be sincere. But she didn't make it through the withdrawal.

She's an addict, Giraffe. They can backslide back into the addiction. This isn't unusual.

Your FEAR does not make you special or unique.
Courage is what would make you special/unique.
Right now, your wife cannot admire/respect you .... you are sinking in the quicksand of your fears. Not attractive. Not a part of Plan A.

What little chance I had to save my marriage, it was greatly lessened by the actions I took before I found, MB. I was not inactive, but did not effectively end the affair. It ended a few times as far as it supposedly being over so much so that once my wife went into a sobbing depression, but I did not understand No Contact, so it always came back.

Expose.

Then No Contact (NC), between the the affair partners forever.

We haven't really gotten to that, but if that is not something you follow up with, them this is all a waste of everyone's time, yours included.

I think I can hear you now. "But, we have been friends a long time." "But, my kids know him." "But, we will run into to him at xxxxx." etc. etc.

If you don't insist on NC, then this is all futile.

Don't even try to debate this on here, you won't get anywhere.

It is one of the 3 legs.

Exposure/affair ending.
NC/withdrawal
MB program.

Mrs. Giraffe is in the cat-bird's seat! Two men focusing all their attention on her! Two men going out of their way to meet her emotional and physical needs! Why in the world do you think she would want to give that up willingly and choose: just you?

I also don't understand why you're wasting so much of your precious time worrying about how other people will react to the truth of their lives. You're not the one perpetrating the betrayal, your wife is.

You're withholding valuable information these people need about their loved one.

Their daughter is an adulterer. That's the truth.

Their mother is an adulterer. That's the truth.

OMW's husband is an adulterer. That's the truth.

You're not the criminal, you're just reporting the crime!

Why are you withholding this information from these people with a righteous need-to-know? You are complicit in your wife's and her party boy's lies and debauchery.

Stand up for yourself, man! Stand up for your children!

(Geez! This is getting sickening to watch . . .)

P.S. Do you think your wife could EVER respect a man that stands around wringing his hands in indecisive misery while someone just walks all over him? Why not ask the opinion of a few of the ladies on this forum?

Political correctness is valuing the reactions of others more than valuing the truth.

Thanks.... I have two questions/comments....

1. What about the old saying, blood is thicker than water?
I don't have much family around or still alive for that matter. I have a brother that I don't talk to very much and a sister that I don't talk to at all really, so I won't tell them. I have some distant cousins that I also won't tell. The only real close friend we both share is the OM (not that I still consider him a friend). So it comes down to telling our kids, her family and the OM's ex wife. Her family could support her no matter what she's done. Her Mom has already said she isn't the right person to ask for relationship advice and that she isn't going to take sides, she supports both of us etc (keep in mind I am almost positve she doesn't know about the affair so that might change how she feels but it might not), and her Dad lives out of state and split with her mom when she was like 2. He talks to her and supports her but not sure how he would respond to this either.

2. It sounds like exposure is great at ending the affair, which trust me, I think that's a great thing. But I have only really heard one story of it leading to saving the marriage. And it seems like anytime I mention that I just get yelled at and told I'm a coward and I need to focus on ending the affair before anything else etc etc. I agree, but I do want to save my marriage! And I'm not sure I'm willing to do that an ANY cost. I mean is there really a chance of staying together if everyone knows what she did? Maybe, I just don't know. And I am struggling with that.... go ahead and call me a coward tell me I need to man up, grow a pair, whatever.... I'm just saying that I am trying to figure out if it's worth it to expose to the world. It just seems like it could really make things bad, maybe it backfires and her family resents me and totaly sides with her.... maybe she ends the affair and wants to work it out, but now the kids can't believe I would even consider keeping her, etc etc. I know it's a lot of hand wringing, but I assume most of you have gone through this or you're currently going through it. I seem to get a lot of people who regret not exposing, but I don't hear many stories of people who did expose and are now happy.

Thanks!

Thanks maritalbliss! That makes sense actually.... I have felt that I didn't stay focused on her when she came back. Well, of course I focused on her, I was so happy that's all I did, but I didn't focus on making sure she wasn't in contact with him. So I let him talk his way back in and talk her back to the affair

There is a chance her family will be full of enablers. You really don�t know unless you tell them.

There are tons of stories here of people who have succeeded when exposing and they have answered on your thread.

I can tell you I never exposed properly and it hurt me.

But understand that there is NO hope for saving your marriage until you kill the affair which requires exposure.

You�re not a coward for fearing the consequences. You�re human. And you�re also very typical.

I can tell you of one man here who was your opposite. He found his wife on top of another man while wearing a bra. He put that man in the hospital and told the universe what she did. He kicked her out and threw her stuff out. She begged and pleaded for forgiveness.

Would yours do the same? Who knows.

The key to exposure is that it must be effective, not vindictive. So expose to people who can put pressure on her to end the affair. This means mutual friends, family, etc.

My marriage and the OW's marriage were saved.

the truth shall set you free.

exposure also helps you regain your footing. it helps YOU feel stronger and gives you the satisfaction of getting some control back.

perhaps her family won't take a big stand in favor of your marriage but exposure will shine a light in the darkness and at the very least it will cause your WW and her OM to wake up to what they're doing.

do this for you, your children and her. she is addicted and needs an intervention. do it and don't worry about what you think might happen.

This was a critical mis-step. You have to understand that without exposure and EPs your WW had no consequences to deal with and no framework to hang recovery on.

She backslid because she could.

Read this forum and other people's threads.

Go to the recovery thread and read there.

There are countless stories of exposure success. I can't tell you of one that didn't have exposure.

You are not paying attention then. I have seen HUNDREDS in my experience on this board and I am one of them. My H's affair ended the day I exposed it. Almost EVERY recovered marriage on this forum was saved by exposure. Your ONLY HOPE OF SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE IS KILLING THE AFFAIR.

You can't save the marriage unless you kill the affair.

I believe I posted Dr Harley's comments on the value of exposure, so I can only conclude you are not reading our posts for you to say something so bizarre. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist with 40 years experience SPECIALIZING in infidelity. Here is what he says.

Please read it this time:
Let me explain this another way. Adultery is just like alcoholism. In order for an alcoholic to recover, he has to first STOP DRINKING. Recovery is hopeless unless that happens. It is the same with adultery. Recovery of the marriage is hopeless unless you kill the affair.

Your chances of saving your marriage are HOPELESS unless you kill this affair.

If she cares about her daughter as you say, then she will "support" her by trying to influence her to end her affair. And also keep in mind she is not taking sides because you and W have lied to her. Even so, it doesn't matter what she does. Just exposing to her will cause conflict in the affair. You have no control over how people will react. You will get help in very unexpected places and others will offer you no help. That is OK. You still expose to them.


Again, not relevant. You won't know how he will react and are wasting time trying to predict such a thing.


Yes, it will make things "really bad" for the affair. Which is your goal. Lots of people might resent you for exposing the affair. You are not doing this to win a popularity contest, you are doing this to save your marriage. If winning the approval of EVERYONE is your goal, then I would assert that is an impossible standard. You need to focus, rather, on doing the right things to save your marriage.

But I think your goal is completely different from ours. See, our goal is to save your marriage like we have ours. YOUR goal is to avoid conflict at all costs. You will lose your marriage that way.

Keep in mind that your best thinking has led you to this terrible place. Your marriage is crumbling as we speak and you are headed to divorce.

So, when you tell us exposure is not a good idea, you look like the falling down drunk who is lecturing sober AA members on how to sober up. Your own methods have not worked FOR YOU. Our methods HAVE WORKED.

Think on that...

I can't work out whether to be pleased or offended by this comment. Do you consider me to be one of the people "who did expose and are now happy", or not?

Did I waste my time posting to you, just for you to blow me off as "not many people who did expose and are now happy"?

We are happy.
Exposure was over 15 years ago.

Married 30 years.

I am the poster boy for conflict avoidance, and waited 4 more months than I should've waiting...hoping for the affair to 'just end'...ignored the best advice here...hesitated with exposure.

Then I exposed the affair, made it 'really bad' by shedding light on it (if it is such a good thing, why don't the affair partners ever tell the world about their new romance....hmmmmm?)

I exposed the affair.

The affiar died.

We're in recovery. Not perfect, but better.

Is Giraffe happy?
His WW is banging his friend! How happy are YOU?????

Giraffe .... my husbands 2 year EA/PA was with his friend.
Trust me .... exposure was more than therapeutic. Exposure was the only thing that saved us. When we exposed to OWH .... I was shocked to find out that he already knew they were involved and OWH did NOTHING to stop the affair. What a putz.

Our exposure story .... LINK

My marriage is in the recovery process, almost 2 years from d-day and exposure.......when the affair is exposed it is no longer a fantasy relationship any longer they are forced to deal with the everyday reality.............
When the affair couple has to deal with other things instead of just filling each others needs it's a whole different story the real person suddenly appears faults and all............
We can all have a perfect relationship if there weren't kids, parents, bills, chores, work to deal with that is what you will be forcing them to do, have a real relationship warts and all.........
The percentage for affairs lasting is very small that is because the relationship is based on lies and deceit.........they can't trust each other and depend on each other when they are busy trying to save their own azz's, watch how quickly they sell each other out.........
Once the affair is over you make a plan together to rebuild the marriage....
First things first.........
I was sacred too to have everyone find out.......but it was almost a relief for me when it did come out, keeping it to myself and suffering alone was impossible......let family and friends help you, and they will.........
No one thinks affairs are right ...........
Use what help you can get here. You let it continue you might as well help her pack her bags........send her off with a stressfree departure.........
This is what she wants you to do, she is playing you so she can quietly walk away.
She doesn't know what is best for her right now, she is in the middle of affair fog, look that up see if she fits the bill.
you need to be strong for your wife and family, she can't right now, you need to get that

I just wonder what your idea is.

Is it, "Don't expose and maybe things will work out"?

How's that working?

Just do like I did. Don't debate us. Read the threads of other BH's that hesitated to expose (mine for example) and see how many of them the affair ever ended by the two parties just deciding they were wrong. I haven't read every thread, but I don't think you will find any. Try to find a thread where the BH exposed and when the fury from hell hit they backed off and they eventually disappeared from here because their plan wasn't working. You will find a few.

Find the threads (mine for example) where the BH did the reading on here and looked at their life. Everything they had done had already been predicted and everything that happened was foretold. The one's where the affair was exposed and ended. Some the wife comes back, some she doesn't. But there are none that come back without a decisive end to the affair. None.

You don't seem to get it. You have two choices. She will be screwing another man and either be married to you or not, but she will be screwing another man. Maybe this one, maybe another one. The fact that she will do it is already proven.

Or, you have a chance to end it. She might stick around long enough to see that you really did do the tough things to stay with her and maybe she will engage again. She might hit the road. But, you see, she is already gone. You cannot appease her back.

To be frank, I don't like your chances. She has become entitled to do whatever she wants, and you are a big reason. If anything, you seem to be even a bigger enabler than I was.

It is your call. These are the two choices you will hear on here.

1. No Chance
2. Some Chance, even if it is small.

No need to give your opinion, we have heard it before and seen it fail every time. If you got a better plan, then go for it.

I can't believe this logic. It is impossible for me to put into words how stupid it is.

Ending the affair "is a great thing" in itself, but there is something greater than that that stops you doing it? What would that greater thing be; allowing the affair to continue so that you can avoid upsetting your wife, kids and OM's family?

"I mean is there really a chance of staying together if everyone knows what she did?" Therefore...what? you shouldn't expose the affair and end it? Ask yourself whether she go back to you whilst the affair continues.

"I'm just saying that I am trying to figure out if it's worth it to expose to the world". If WHAT is worth WHAT to expose it to the world? If having a shot at recovery is worth it expose to the world?

"It just seems like it could really make things bad, maybe it backfires and her family resents me and totaly sides with her...." Will you have your marriage and a shot at recovery if you do not expose? What will you have lost if you expose and her family sides with her? She has not returned to you today and her family does not yet know of the affair. So what if they do know, and she still does not return to you? What will you have lost? Are you trying to make her family happy, or end the affair?

"...maybe she ends the affair and wants to work it out, but now the kids can't believe I would even consider keeping her, etc etc."

Are you seriously telling me that

1. Your kids would not be glad that the affair ended and their mother came home to them, willing to work on the marriage?

2. If the affair ended and your wife wanted to reconcile, you would let your kids' objection affect your decision?

I can't believe you mean a word of this nonsense. Are you just playing games with this board?

I didn't know if I'd have a marriage left after I exposed.

However, I knew I didn't have a marriage if my W was involved in an affair.

Expose and save your family.

Thanks Pepperband! Not sure if it's relevant, but how long was the affair? My wife's affair has been going on for around 2 years and I think she has fallen for him, or at least in her head she has. Again, she did come back and I think it was sincere but I realize now that I didn't enforce no contact and she probably was in WD and couldn't help but go back.

Thanks helpthelostdads and Mel! I know I have been on here for a couple of days going back and forth with a bunch of questions. I am getting on board with exposure, but still pretty scared about the outcome. It's easy to run through so many different scenerios.... I've been doing that anyway, just about her coming back, not coming back, etc etc

Just wanted to quote this in case you missed it the first time I posted it when you asked if exposure had worked for anyone.

And ya know what was worse than my W's A? My 16 yr old son telling me he already knew his mother was committing adultery before I told him, but that he didn't want to say anything to me because what if he was wrong? Can you imagine what he went thru? And your son asked you if his mother was having an affair and you didn't tell him? Think of what he's going thru!

And if you need any more encouragement, let me add this. The three previous years before my W's A...our 16 yr old got straight A's in school. The last quarter of his freshman year in H.S. is when the A started and he still did ok, but his grades had slipped. Soph year, lots of C's and D's. Grew his hair long and started running with what I would politely describe as not the kind of crowd a parent aspires their kids to run with. After I exposed to my kids and the A ended THE NEXT DAY (late in the school year), by the next school year, his grades returned to A's and B's.

A year later he was voted Sr Class President and just two weeks ago both my W and I attended his graduation from Basic Training in the USAF. You know who the first person he hugged was when we saw him for the first time? HIS MOTHER.

H4U.

I had gone about my plan for 6 months. The OM and my wife did not know I was reading emails, snooping. Did not know I saw a lot of stuff. He was our pastor. I used every guilt trip there was. They thought I thought it was over. I met with him, sent him emails, strategically mentioning things that referenced some of their conversations, their real misgivings and guilt, because it was there. These were two people really struggling with what they were doing. I made him especially feel like dung. It stopped several times. But I didn't want to expose, out of fear of my wife's anger, fear of embarrassment for my children, fear of scorn on my wife (how dumbassed does that sound.) And I had no thought of NC (how could I disrupt my youngest daughter's church experience, again dumbassed.)

My marriage slowly, well not so slowly, went from in trouble to in shambles. I found MB and took it from there. I took about 2 days of 2x4 bombs. Dropped off and read. Snooped, gathered evidence and waited for it to inevitably start again, at least get something I could use, I am sure it never stopped, just went underground.

Then I exposed. I was in control. It felt like 1000 lbs lifted off me. I was not hiding sin, not enabling snakes.

It was the only thing I did right, the only thing I really feel good about, and I waited too long. I had weakly let my marriage implode and never lifted a finger to really try and stop someone from taking my wife until it was too late. By then, she was finished with me.

Much of your chances of success in saving your marriage depend on the state it is in before exposure. By you being in the position you are in, I doubt it was all that good before the affair, and will deteriorate exponentially as long as you let it go on.

Believe me, every day is important.

Or, let another man keep screwing your wife. Maybe you can give them a ride to where ever they go so she wont get mad.

Don't think of it as exposure.....think of it as spreading the good news that your WW has finally found her soulmate in POSOM.... & it only took 20 some years.....

You will get some back fire from those who are close to the situation.....but it's all talk, classic double think and self justifying of their A.

It's actually quite funny.

I promise you will feel better later down the road about it.

I wish I could disagree with you Mel, but I think you must know me! Seriously that is what her and I both struggle with.... communication in general and yes, avoiding conflict. She even said that was why she didn't even want to tell the kids she was moving the first time, she wanted to wait until she found a place or was out I guess. She said she doesn't like conflict, I think I told her (or at least thought it), that conflict is coming.... maybe I should take my own advice

Thank you!!!! That actually made me cry!! I had forgotten the story, sorry, but when I started reading it came back to me, and the addition today was very touching. I don't want my boys to hate their Mom!!!! It is what scares me.... I admit that I fear she is so far gone with the A that she'll just run to the OM.... but I fear the kids hating her more than anything else!! I truly don't think they will, I just don't think kids hate Moms, especially knowing our boys and my wife. But I do fear it. I don't even know she'll run to the OM if I expose.... she did come back to me, but probably fell due to WD and went back to the A.

Thanks again for the comment about your son and his Mother.... that still has tears in my eyes.

Giraffe,

A wayward mother, and a lack of honesty from their betrayed father, is a recipe for disaster not only in their current lives, but in their adult lives as well.

Our models of marriage are our parents and grandparents (and possibly aunts and uncles).

Don't let your children grow up believing "sometimes it just doesn't work."

Because, frankly, that's a load of crap. Were they to hate their mother, yet have safe, loving, romantic marriages in their adult lives, they will be far better off!

It has already been mentioned that her relationship to them depends on her, not you.

Imagine this conversation.

"Dad, I can't believe Mom left you for xxxx. It must be quite a shock."

"Well, Son, I actually have known about their affair for over two tears and kept it from you like you were a little child too young to make up his own mind about his relationships."

"What, how could you have kept this from me. I have lost respect for you."

"But, but, but, ......."

The affair ended when I exposed (finally) to OMW. It was 2,5 years ago. We are in happy marriage now and it still gets better every day. My wife still thanks me for the exposure.

Ask from herself if you are doubting, she is posting in these forums.

I get that. I too was afraid my boys would hate their mom.

When I told them, I was very careful to not bash her and I told them in my best Dad voice, that I would not accept them disrespecting her, that she was their mother and yes, she'd made a mistake, a BIG mistake, but she was just in a F'd up place.

The next day, after my W said she was willing to try, I told our son's "Everyone makes mistakes, the real measure of a person is what they learn and how they respond to those mistakes".

Don't get me wrong, it was a long tough road and her WD went on for a good 3-4 months, but things slowly got better between us as well as between her and our son's.

And now, going on 4 years later, things have never been better with all of us.

H4U.

Thanks.... and trust me, that has gone through my mind. It's what had me thinking about telling them way back, before I even read these MB posts.

Your boys will RESENT you terribly for withholding this information about their lives FROM THEM. Do you know who I resent the MOST about hiding my father's affairs from me? MY MOTHER.

My father was invested in hiding his crimes because he was guilty, but my mother had no such excuse. She was not wayward; he was.

Believe me, kids don't appreciate being treated like little morons who are too stupid to know the truth about their own lives. I deeply resent the confusion my mother caused me by not telling me the truth. I concluded the source of the problem WAS ME. And that is the problem with lying to your kids. It just causes confusion.

As long as you lie to them, your wife is free to lie to them.

My disbelief at your attitude is not at your asking questions about a course of action that you might not fully understand, or that you need to work out the timeline for. I do not believe that you are weak for asking questions or cowardly for not having exposure sewn up already, having only come here yesterday.

I am frustrated at you because I don't believe your "questions" are really questions designed to help you understand and prepare fully. Your "questions" are really objections to what you are being advised, and your objection comes from weakness and cowardice. Your "questions" are a smokescreen or a pointless game, although why you come here to play games, or repeatedly to tell us why you can't use the MB plans, is beyond me. Does posting these endless "questions" here make you feel that you are actually doing something to save your marriage?

I don't believe you are here to get help because when you get a clear answer to each "question" posed, you do not accept it. You simply bypass that answer and find some other smokescreen to tremble behind.

For example, you asked whether exposure stopped affairs and saved marriages. Several people told you that yes, it stopped the affair in their marriage and gave them a shot at recovery. Your objection to that is that "not many" people said this. Good grief.

When another person (Pepperband) adds her very positive experience of exposure and recovery, you ask whether the affair was as long as your wife's - as if looking for a time loophole that would mean that exposure wouldn't work in your case. you need something - anything - to prove that your circumstances are different.

You know that my H had a long-term affair, because I posted the timeline to you - a 3.5 year PA followed by 6 months of EA by means of phone calls. You simply bypass my experience.

At least two people have told you that they did NOT expose and they regret not doing so. You simply bypass their posts and continue posting objections. I think you are looking around for someone - anyone - to tell you that they regret exposing because it made things worse. When you find that person - and no doubt SOMEONE will be able to come here and say that, if you let this thread go on long enough - you will claim to have all the evidence you need that exposure is a bad idea. Viola.

I don't lose respect for someone who takes a couple of days to work out how to follow the MB plans. However, I don't respect anyone who, having heard the expertise of Dr Harley, who has seen exposure work many hundreds of times, and having heard from several people who have learned the wisdom of his plans (sometimes ESPECIALLY because they did not expose), would not take charge of his marriage to give his kids a chance of a future, if not himself.

And as for someone who would hide behind fear of his kids' reactions should exposure prove successful...

TOS. I must remember TOS.

Thanks, that's awesome.... congratulations! I hope to have one of these success stories to share on MB, soon!

So, you only exposed to OMW? just curious.... I know it seems to be the advice here to do a big exposure. I can see where that is more effective. I don't want to just tell the OMW because it's his ex, and I don't think they were still married when the affair started. She'll probably still not be happy, she has been friends with my W since middle school. But I also want to tell my W's Mom and Dad.... and our kids. I was just curious if you only told the OMW.

Again.... congrats to you and Mrs_Recon6mo

Thank you! That is one to really think on!

You could invest some effort in reading some of the stories around here, you know? A little work on your own to see how it's worked out for other people?

The most effective exposures are the wide spread ones that are done on the same day. Rarely is a minimal exposure effective because it is not enough to kill the affair and just enough to tick off the affairees. When it comes to exposure it has been my observation that it is better to do more than less. You can recover from doing more, but doing less typically neutralizes the exposure.

Word.

What? Are you just having a bad day and decided to take it out on a guy that has only been on this site for 24 hours or what? Sorry a simple question set you off so easy.... I didn't mean to imply I wasn't willing to do any research. A lot of folks had replied to my post and I was just asking a question. Sorry it upset you.

And our kids, and closest friends, too. You will have to find the targets that have the biggest effect over your W, the ones that can have that great influence over her. Without the big shame, feeling of deep humiliation she will NEVER get to taste the reality or feel the pain she has caused to her closest and you will NEVER have that chance to recovery. Never.

My H sent OMW an email stating the fact that me and her H were having an affair and if she wanted proof or more detail, he would send these to her. After that OM thanked him for ruining his life...

The point is about telling the truth. Living a lie, knowing something that appears not to be true is corrupting and very hurtful.

Over the past years we have been able to develop good close relationship with our kids who are now teens and talk openly about the possible threats and stuff they need to know about relationships. And talk about the mistakes people make.

So MAN UP and expose now, stop making up excuses.

The big exposure has several reasons behind it;

It puts pressure on the wayward to end the affair from sources that may currently have influence over the wayward that the betrayed spouse does not.

It puts eyes on the affair partner.

It reveals those who are or are not friends of the marriage. Friends of the marriage will NEVER support or justify the behavior of a wayward. Enemies of the marriage will. Once you kill the affair, once recovery begins, you do not want to allow the influence of enemies of the marriage to be present any more.

It improves support for the betrayed spouse. You KNOW, RIGHT NOW how isolating and crushing it is to be betrayed by your spouse. GET SOME SUPPORT FROM YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY!

It avoids the building of resentment from keeping secrets from friends and family, and can shield against commentary from friends and family which may be triggering during recovery.

It keeps a former wayward vigilant, because they know that the eyes of friends of the marriage are on them.


There are far more POSITIVES for a nuclear exposure than NEGATIVES.

Quit waffling and do it.

Oh, don't be so innocent. You had already heard from a few people who had exposed and were in recovery or recovered, but you ignored their evidence and pretended that here was only one positive response on your thread.

"A lot of folks had replied to your post" and several of them have given you success stories, but you keep implying that these are rare, or not typical.

I doubt that you "upset" markos by asking a questions. You might have done so by proving that you are unwilling to stand up for your kids. That upsets me.

Thanks SugarCane, I do appreciate the honesty. But I am a little dissapointed that you are being so critical of someone because they are asking questions or because they haven't jumped on board 100% having only been here for a day. I had said I am coming around and starting to get on board. I am not trying to ignore anyone's post. I appreciate the replies and have found most of them helpful. And no, I am not just looking for someone to say something negative. You can search to expose or not and find several people on both sides of the fence.

I am just trying to work through this and yes, I am asking a lot of questions. That doesn't mean I am challenging the answers or the system. It sounds like it works for many, and that's great. I am just trying to figure out if it's right for me and how to plan for it. When someone sends a response like what you just sent, it feels much like a used care salesman tactic (act now or this deal won't be here tomorrow!) and that doesn't make me jump at it, that actually slows me down and makes me take a harder look at what I'm being told.

Just a thought.... but thanks for the honesty, that I do need to hear!

Giraffe6

And Please re-read SugarCane's reply with open eyes.

You brought this up yesterday, and I posted about it yesterday.

Please stop posting new stuff and take some time to review your thread. You are obviously missing a lot of very good and helpful comments. We can't help you if you only retain 10% of what you read and we have to repeat it nine more times. I know you are in a terrible emotional state with what is going on, but if you are going to survive, it is going to require that you get a grip, read the advice you are being given, act on it, and quit obsessing over the same fears, over and over again.

I read you to be saying you will think for months and do nothing.

Be wary if your wife says she needs to think about whether she is going to choose you or the OM. She will drag that out as long as possible, thinking and doing nothing, just as you are doing here.

Wow, this really turns against someone if they don't buy in right away. What is going on here? Look I am just trying to get some help. I am glad you are able to jump at something as soon as a few people tell you it's great or that it's THE answer! I am just trying to get serveral opinions. I am not trying to upset anyone here. I am just trying to figure things out. I would think you haven't gone through this before the way you are acting. I don't think most folks on here read some posts and acted on it the first day.

Sorry for just trying to think it through, I haven't mean to offend anyone by asking questions. BTW.... if you see a question or a post you don't like, you don't have to reply. Man, thanks for making me feel worse than I already do! How nice of you to pass judgement on someone you don't even know.

Sugarcane is hardly a used car salesman and her sentiments reflect the feelings of many of us here. I am offended you said that to someone who is here freely offering you help. She doesn't have to waste a single post on you and neither do the others. We have saved our marriages, after all. You are the one in need.

We have given you all the evidence to rightly conclude that exposure is the right thing to do. Yet you continue to come up with new "questions", which are really objections disguised as "questions." We can tell the difference.

Yes, exposure is "right for you" if you are serious about saving your marriage and we have given you the reasons why. You already know that keeping it a secret doesn't work.

Folks have spent alot of time and effort reasoning with you and it appears to have been wasted effort. Which is frustrating to us, because we have careers and families of our own. We don't have alot of free time to waste on someone who is not serious when there are so many others here who are serious.

WE have given you the tools for the best chance to save your marriage. Whether you choose to use them or not is up to you. There is nothing more we can do for you if you don't use those tools.

I wish you the best.

Are you under the impression that you should talk about this until you aren't scared any more, before you act? That you have to get to the point where you aren't scared before you should do anything?

If so, you are gravely mistaken.

You should be scared. Your wife is having an affair. Nothing could possibly be scarier.

Sometimes when I give my sons a shower, they'll start balking at washing their hair and tell me they are scared to put their heads under the running water. I calm them down, get them quiet, and then explain to them that even though they are scared, they can still do it, and they have to do it. Sometimes we have to do things that are uncomfortable or scare us. That's just how life is.

If you are waiting for all your fears to go away, first, you are going to be a skeleton before anything gets better. I hope that scares you a bit.

Sigh. I took a great deal of time composing that post just so that you would know that I WASN'T being critical of you for asking questions. Did you read a word I said? You clearly did not understand it.

Not on this site, you can't. You won't find a single person on this site who will advise against exposure, so stop searching around here for such a person.

Well, good luck with your slowing down and trying to find a better deal than MB. If your "taking a harder look" makes you reject the MB plans, you're a (TOS).

markos, I feel like you are turning this into a personal attack. I'm not sure I understand that. You send a post that is half telling me to stop wasting your time and half offering me advice, makes it difficult to reply.

I am going through a tough time, which I assumed would be obvisou since I am here. I'm sorry if I miss some of a post or repeat a question, it's not on purpose. If you don't like something or you feel you already answered it 8 times, don't feel you have to reply again. I do appreciate the support I've got here, but the past few posts have felt more like attacks.

Exposure sounds like a good option. And I am giving all of this a lot of thought. And for me part of the process is to ask questions. I'm sure everyone goes through this in a different way. I'm not trying to offend or make anyone mad. Please know that I truly appreciate the help and support, but if I am frustrating you at all, please don't feel obligated to reply.

Thanks,
G6

Giraffe, I'm trying to help you. You will receive a lot more help if you listen more.

You are asking to be spoonfed data about exposure. The data exists for easy collection by you, instead of you bothering all these nice people and asking them to repeat things to you nine times. And even when people spoonfeed it to you, you ask the same questions and bring up the same objections over and over again.

You have nothing to prove to us. It doesn't matter if you offend us or not. We simply want to help you, and are having trouble doing that because YOU ARE NOT LISTENING.

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, SIR.

How much clearer do we have to be?

I know you are emotionally distraught right now. Will you please listen closely to us as we help you find the way out? Stop having a back and forth with each individual poster who posts to you. Stop answering each individual post.

In fact, I think it would be best if you almost completely stop talking and start listening.

Please take a break. Please go reread your entire thread.

I believe I will take this excellent advice. I wish you the best.

I just wonder how long you think it will be before someone comes along and contradicts everyone else.

It appears your questions have been asked and answered. Asking them again is just stalling.

I will admit that you have started asking questions about making a plan.

That is what you need to be doing, making a plan.

Do you have evidence? Consolidate it.

Think of as many exposure targets as you can and make plans to blanket them at one time. This keeps the affair couple from getting their alibis and lies straight.

Once you get the timeline together, then do it. Tell your kids in person or over the phone if necessary, but let them hear it from your voice.

Calmly and rationally tell it. No embellishing, no expectations, just information. Ask for help in stopping it so your marriage can survive.

I told my parents, my in-laws and my kids in person. Told church leaders in person and showed them printouts.

Some people will disappoint you and some will surprise you. If they think you have done wrong, then you need to be rid of them anyway.

You seem to think you have something to lose. You don't. It is already lost, accept that. Your wife has fallen in love with another man, whatever that means. If you want her back, you have to accept that and accept that she doesn't love you now. You have a lot of work to do if she stays with you.

Drastic action is needed. You have to get that.

I am having an awesome day. My wife and children came for lunch. It was fantastic. In a little while we are going to go work ourselves to death at the gym together.

I'm here to help you. Please listen closely and don't try to prove yourself right or justify yourself. It's counterproductive to the help you can receive here.

If you are defending yourself, then that means you are acting defensive, you know?

Quit being so defensive. You are shooting yourself in the foot.

No reply is needed, Giraffe. Stop trying to rebut everybody who posts to you.

Do you want help recovering your marriage, or do you want to be right on an Internet forum?

You are not just asking questions. You are obsessing about fears. The fears, doubts, and questions you are discussing today are the same ones you discussed yesterday. You would be well-served to go back and reread.


They certainly do, and we are trying to give you some tips about which ways are productive and which ways are unproductive.

I am glad to hear you are giving exposure a lot of thought. But I also know that you may be thinking so long that your opportunity passes you by.

Also, I know that you might think quicker if you'd invest some time reading through what other people have been through.

I have three daughters, two of whom are grown. There are things that come along that they need to take care of now that I may have taken care of for them in the past. At times they will even ask me what to do, and I tell them my opinion. And, almost invariably, they balk because they are uncomfortable doing what I say. This infuriates me, and I usually say something like, "You asked me, and I told you. Do it or don't, it's up to you."

I am at that point now.

It's only a wasted effort if you feel it is. I truly appreciate all of the advice. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. I made the used car comment because I just felt like I was being pressured to do something that I am still processing in my head. I can tell that you guys are truly on board with the benefits of exposure. And I agree it sounds like the right thing. But as I'm sure most folks do, I am just struggling with it being a different approach. You know we're pretty much all that way, we know a way to do something or what is the "norm" and it's tough to stray from that. I agree that the path I'm on hasn't worked but I am still scared and trying to work it out. No I don't plan to wait until all of my fears are gone.... again I've just found this site and started posting in the past day so give me a few minutes to think it through

I apoligize to you, marcos and SugarCane! I understand that we all have jobs to do and this isn't our full time job and I appreciate you all for giving your time to answer posts. I am just frustrated myself and sad, which I'm sure you can all understand. It's not that I came here for a big hug, I just am looking for answers. And I can tell you all have given me the answer you truly belive is the right one for me and for everyone in this situation. I respect that. I am just processing everything that's going on.

I felt like the best thing to do was to point out that you are missing valuable information right and left and suggest a practical course of action (stop talking and go back and reread). I didn't realize it was going to turn into a big argument about how bad it made you feel for me to point out how much information you are missing.


I'm sorry for making you feel bad, and I wish you the best. You can go back to missing information if it makes you happy.

Praying for your family.

Giraffe, all that I am pressuring you to do is to slow down, talk less, listen more, go back, and reread. Can you do that? Or do you fears consume you to the point where you can't go reread the thousands of words that have been written to you to see if they continue to speak to you?

I can see why MelodyLane, SugarCane, et al might feel frustrated and feel like they've wasted their efforts. Not only did you miss much of what they said the first time, you are not even willing to go back and look again. You are treating their words as valueless.

Me, I'm not frustrated, but I can see why they are.

I'm not sure why it personally offended you for me to suggest you go back and read. I figured this was kind of serious for you. Thought I could help, is all.


I think they would feel more appreciated if you'd slow down a bit and go reread the 594 posts in this thread that have been directed at you.

Thank you.... Thanks to all of you, I truly appreciate your input and advice. I'm sorry it got a little tense today. I'm not sure I agree that I'm the one that got us there, but no, that's not just about being right on an internet forum. It doesn't matter who started it, I'm just sorry it went there. I actually hardly post to forums. But this is a crisis for me and I'm looking for help.

I agree that maybe I need to go back and re-read some posts and I admit I have probably re-posted the same thoughts, fears, questions, etc. Not on purpose, I'm just scared. I will try not to post anything until I have something new to add.

Thanks again to all and I am sorry to anyone I offended. Just having a bad day, actually a lot of bad days recently, haha.

Take care!
Giraffe6

Hi there,

I know you are scared of what is going to happen to your marriage and your family, your life is in crisis I agree.
You came to Marriage Builders for help.......the folks here have listened to a lot of stories just like yours and have gone through people that won't follow the program, they know what works and what doesn't.......they are trying to help you and some times they have to throw a few 2x4's at you to wake you up.....none of us here want to see you lose your marriage, this is a safe place and if you let the ones with the most experience help you and you aren't afraid of the steps then you will have a chance of saving what you so desperately want........
If you don't your wife is going to leave you for her OM........
You have to get in between that affair, cause trouble, make it impossible for it to continue..........
Your wife will be mad, she may not come back to you, it isn't a for sure thing but this way at least you have a chance and she will see you stand up for her and your family, it might make a difference.........
You can't go on like this, it will kill you, it will hurt your family........you can't let that happen.......
We were all scared just like you, I can tell you from my own experience and it was a tough road for me that exposure helped stop my husband from seeing his OW and being accountable for his actions by his family, friends and our grown boys.
He has told me himself if the affair wasn't discovered he would not have stopped seeing her and his intent was to have a life with her............
After he stopped seeing her he started to see the affair for what it was and what he was really giving up, it wasn't just me it was a family a life he had spent 27 years in, it was friends who didn't agree with what he was doing.......
It is more than them when the affair is out in the open........
That helps you and your family.......
She will be embarrassed and angry so what let her be, she will get over it.......
What is she going to say to everyone else, she is mad at you for stopping her from having an affair, they will laugh at her............
If I were you I expose to everyone important to her

This PA had been going on for nearly TWO YEARS prior to D-Day in August. It is now three months later and what has changed? Apparently what you've been doing until now hasn't worked.

She doesn't respect you and you will end up divorced if you don't DO SOMETHING.

Dr. Harley's plans are that SOMETHING. You have a golden opportunity here.

Isn't it time to change things up?

Geez! So I work for a couple of hours and come back to a thread on fire!

Giraffe, you are balking out of fear. We understand that. Many of us were in your spot at one point. We get the fear thing.

I also know that it can be overwhelming to come to this site and read how to deal the heaviest blow to a spouse's affair, because it runs so counter to what you've been taught: get along, don't speak badly about other people, don't air your dirty laundry, etc. You need to get past that faulty thinking. It will not serve you in this fight!

No one on this site is paid for our participtation. We're here because we know it works. And we know very well the emotions you are dealing with. We've been there.

We're trying to save you from the mis-steps you'll likely encounter that could derail your attempts to save your M.

Some of the best posters we've got are on your thread. You just don't know it yet. They've been where you are and came out on the other side. They don't want to see you lose your marriage - it's so salvageable at this point. IF YOU DO THIS RIGHT.

Stop trying to control your children's emotions. They get to pick that. Not you.

A man who stands to one side and does nothing can be dismissed. She tells herself you dont care to ease her conscience. You have been manipulated into this role.

Show her she's wrong.


Ok, I do understand. Exposure is scary for EVERYONE.

I thought my very protective father would physically attack my WH

I thought his family would back him, believe his denials and blame me.

I thought my friends would see me as being vindictive.

I was petrified, but i did it anyway. I am a big believer in the truth and am so glad I did.

As it happens, everyone is urging my WH to do the right thing and are supporting me. In whatever I want to do from here. Because they see I am cool, calm and collected and that I have no fear of the truth or tough jobs.

You must get on with it.

People here are experienced and know you are standing in the middle of a battlefield, under attack from the OM, your WW and the A itself.

We know time is ticking away. We know you are in the firing line. We know that your children are under attack too - and have no idea where the gunfire is coming from

Yes. People have gotten a bit bootcamp with you and are yelling at you to SHOOT. I would suggest you listen.

If you are waiting for someone else to show up here and say Exposure is bad/not needed - that won't happen because only MB advice is posted here. Its the terms of service.

So you either want MB advice or not.

giraffe,

you're probably puzzled by the urgency of the message here about exposure because you've been living with this for months, so what's a few more days/weeks?

it IS urgent. hours, days and weeks are passing by and you are letting it all slip away.

you might think that the holidays are messing you up. actually, the holidays give you a leg up because your WW is going to want to bask in the cake eating and the idea of the loving family. the holidays will add pressure to end the affair IF you expose now.

for heaven's sake, tell your kids. they already know and can't talk to you about it because they are afraid. be a leader for them and lead them out of these lies and back into some possibility of healing.

your wife must feel so sick inside about what she's doing and she must be SICK that you are letting her get away with it. save your family, your dignity and hopefully your marriage.

G6,

I understand your hesitation. You feel you're getting 2x4s left and right. Well, you are.

We've seen many a BH come here, tell their story, get the same advice you're getting, and they leave to follow their own plan.

Months later they come back and the affair is still on and things are worse and they're still asking for advice on what to do.

So the 2x4s are to emphasize to you that this really is the most powerful tool you have to end the affair and start your marriage on the next stage. it will either kill the affair or it will have little effect because you waited too long to expose and the affair is so entrenched that there is really no way to go back.

So exposure in the early stages is critical.

That's why you feel like you're getting hammered. We're ER techs showing up at the accident scene and are trying to save you. But you keep throwing your hands in our face and punching us because you're disoriented and don't have your bearings.

We understand your fear. We've felt it. This is the way to go to end the affair, however.

Yes the holidays are a perfect time.

You want it to be EFFECTUAL and not easily ignored. Fear is usually limited to the time before a daring deed. Leave it behind!

Giraffe, if it helps you, I exposed right before xmas last year. Like a week before. And her family came down on her so hard it was unbelievable. OMs family and partner came down on him even harder.

I promise you can do this. I also promise if you don't do this, the day will come that you will wish you had.

Stand and fight. This is your life. Get it back.

I just read all your posts, not the advice because I know what they are telling you. I know exactly how you feel. Gutted. Desparate. Wanting to grab any resource, anything to save yourself.

But I also know something you don't. Your instincts are all wrong. I promise you that. You have already lost unless you fight.

I wrote this a year ago, literally the day after I exposed. I have my wife back. The marriage is now saved because of this place. I have a choice that you don't currently have. I can let her stay or I can let her go. Either way I am more of a man, more of a father and more of a husband. You choose your own route, but I do say I would not take what I did back. It was the best thing I ever did. Not saying the affair was a good thing, but my reaction I am proud of.

Read for yourself..this is really what I wrote at exposure plus one.


I am exactly one day past where you are right now. I am not a vet, or a pro at this. I found MarriageBuilders seven weeks ago after confronting the woman I loved for ten years. I have made mistakes dealing with her affair, and will continue to make mistakes. She is in love with someone else or thinks she is and its crushing me. I don't understand how I got here. I can't eat I can't sleep. I am desparate to hang onto her. If I take the advice on this site, listen to these strangers, I know I will lose her. She will be gone, and its because of what I did - I took the advice and exposed her affair. She will be angry, I will have betrayed her and she will never come back to me.

I know exactly how you feel, because it was yesterday when I was the same. Its standing on a window ledge twenty stories up. The wind is whistling and pushing you around. Your heart is racing nonstop. You can't focus. All you know is you are afraid of falling. If you could somehow climb down off the ledge. Every minute seems like a year and every time your wife makes contact you get pushed a little closer to a fatal fall.

Yesterday I was exactly in the same place as you. These strangers yelled and screamed and tried to inject me with courage but I would not budge.

But I know something now that I did not know yesterday. My wife is human. The OM is human. They are not invulnerable. They had no right to what they did. I am a man, a father and good at both. Not perfect but I never claimed that. I wrote to the other mans partner. I wrote my WWs family. I wrote to others. Every time I did I got more scared. I sat there the first hour and wished I could take it back. The phone rang, her family called me. They said they love and support me completely. What is wrong with my wife? Why would she do this? The other mans partner wrote me. Shes so grateful. They were planning to get married. She is so grateful to me. The OM wrote me, he is angry. He does not want my wife anymore, i can have her back. His life is ruined. My WW calls me, she is furious. How could I ruin OMs life? My marriage is over according to her. I feel....BETTER.

This is a true story about what happened when I took those strangers advice. It was literally yesterday I did this. I don't know if my marriage will succeed or fail. I have no illusions, even from here many will fail. But I feel BETTER. I am not afraid anymore. I am in control, I am prepared for whatever comes. I can raise my child and tell him I fought for him. Fought hard and overcame my fear. I climbed down off the ledge went back in the building and tried to rebuild my family.

You make your own decision whether to follow me and the others who took the advice. We will be inside waiting for you. Some of us are married some are not. But none of us are afraid anymore.

Reynolds,

Glad you posted, too, with others.

Giraffe, posters here reminded me one day that SAA (this forum topic) is you, a BW, that has been rushed to ER and this is triage. See, both types of posters (the betrayed spouses(BS) and former WWs (waywards)) KNOW the sense of urgency here. Not think...KNOW.

What is known here is that the longer you wait, the more your WW will become even more entrenched in the A, and the chance for recovery just leseens each day. Think of it this way: she is looking for reasons to undermine your M, you and your responses. She is in an addictive FOG. Don't underestimate that by any stretch.


Reynolds said the very thought I had...I didn't read 1/2 of the responses to your situation. I already know them. Why? Been here since late 2008-ish reading, I think.

Ever watch Intervention (don't confuse this anlaogy with advise here. It is an analogy) or any of those types of shows? Does the solution change? Nope. And, there's a reason.

Exposure is your best bet to kill the A. This is the only way you have even a tiny chance to regain a shot at M recovery. Is it a guaranty? No, of course not. What is a guaranty of the end of you M is to allow the M to go on and try to negotiate how it (A)is to end.

Do yourself a favor and read. Read Basic Concepts to the right...thoroughly. You are going to have a LOT of work and very hard months ahead of you. A LOT of work that you are going to ponder why you have to put forward when you were wronged.

Think of exposure as a toe in the door to even begin all of that future work.

Sounds dire, huh? Well, it is at this point, because you are in the ER. Bleeding has to stop before you can even consider rehab. Got that? The A has to be killed. THAT is the sense of urgency the good people here are trying to get acrossed to you, and I concur.

Also, I want to point out that MB site is not a "blog my troubles" site. People here are very experienced not in their own situations, but in the MB concepts as people, not as "bloggers". This site and forums were her loooong before the bloogers/Facecrap/twit (intentional typos) environment.

Lastly, sorry that you are here. This is the best place you could possibly find to regain your marriage, though. The passion here is tried and true with results in success, and in the cases where Ms are not recovered, the same people stay right here (some more often than others) as the concepts here help us all be better people in general, develop better relationships with family and co-workers, etc.

Heck, I use MB concepts (which, frankly and with no disrespect are just common sense principles) in my life daily. But, if common sense were so easy to do, we wouldn't need input from anyone, now would we? As is stated here over and over..."it" is very simple, but not easy.


Really lastly...and this is the longest post I've ever made here, know that the "recovery" is not and end, it is a journey. Not that psycho-babble-Stuart-Smalley "life is a journey - find yourself" crap journey. But, a true daily (with action plans) effort to keep you and your now WW in a loving marriage. It doesn't happen by accident, and it doesn't happen by chance. Any more than you rolling into work each day without a list of things you have to do and expecting a paycheck for life.

Take this for what it worth.

Giraffe, I'm glad you have found MB. Use the wealth of knowledge here. I don't have anything extra to add that hasn't already been said, I just want to cast another vote in the box. Please listen and act on the advice that has been given.

Exposure is your first step in fighting the good fight for your marriage. My D Day was four months ago. Out of all of the things I regret about WH's affair, exposure is not one of them. I am so glad, so proud, that I exposed. I told the truth rather then fed the fanstasy of the affair. I fought for my marriage with the best weapon I had, the truth.

The WS does not want the truth to be shared, that is what an affair is, lies and deceit. Don't allow your WW to beat you into submission, don't lie by omission to help sustain her affair and fantasy. Find your courage. You can do it.

TJ/

Stepping away from the ER for a moment, I just wanted to say how proud I am to see some of our newer and not-so-new members posting and adminstering MB advice so well. You get it and it shows. Congratulations and thank you for paying it toward.

/TJ

Back to the ER.

My marriage would've ended if I hadn't exposed.

I don't know if it'll survive (we're in recovery now), but know it will only end becasue my W and I allowed it to, not because of an active affair.

It's scary (geez, just read my thread), but IT WORKS!!!

I exposed the affair with the help of my husband's OWH........our d-day is Nov. 23,
The holidays helped me, having my boys home from university helped me.......
It is a time of the year that everyone has a lot of memories in their heart and the affair partner knows that they will be giving up that life if they don't wake up........
There is no good time, the sooner the better so you can stop the affair and start getting back to being married........

Giraffe6,

You keep making excuses as to why you can't do what it is that deep down inside you know you have to do. You keep expressing concern about his children, how about you make yours a bigger priority? OM doesn't give a damn about your kids, doesn't care much about his own, and doesn't care if you end up divorced with limited access to your children, so why, oh why, do you sit here using the children as an excuse to do nothing? I can't understand guys who have empathy for any man who interferes with another man's wife and family. This guy could be someone that potentially sends you into family court and turns you into a 17% dad. If I had someone that could potentially do that to me, he could be standing in front of me on fire, and I wouldn't even piss on him to put out the flames. If this guy was pointing a gun at you (which he is figuratively), and you were locked and loaded would you hesitate to shoot because his kids might miss him? Let him shoot you instead? What about YOUR kids?!!!

The best possible outcome for children is to have their parents stay married with both invested in making their marriage and family work properly. If you use the guidance here to first kill the affair, and then build a NEW marriage using the principles of POJA and UA, you can affair proof your marriage from further strife. Of course, that will require your wife's enthusiastic (eventually) cooperation, but that can't even begin to happen until your wife goes NC with POS OM.

You've protested against some of the posts made here on your thread as being too forceful or pushy, even bordering on hostile; well ya know something - you're right. Some of us ARE pushy, some will get right down to brass tacks from the word go without any small talk or initial pleasantries, because we are fighting for you, not against, on two fronts. The first front is that we need to get BH's to shed their fear or reluctance to do what is necessary to save their marriages and get ready to do some unpleasant things that will take them far outside their comfort zones; the second front is to help them follow the steps here to kill the affair.

Your wife's affair is no different than countless others that have been here, it's almost like they're scripted, the same horrible B-movie being played out countless times, like some warped Groundhog Day. You should read some of the threads of the BHs who have posted to you here. They're not kidding when they say they have been in your shoes, even down to receiving the same type posts that you are now.

We are your allies, Giraffe6, your team. We're going to push you when necessary because we know it's your only chance to stave off a divorce. Another ally would be OMW, you both can be mutually helpful to each other in ending the affair. I was a lurker here for a long time before I got a user name because at first I scoffed at a lot of the program and didn't believe it would work. Now I use it to keep my marriage safe and secure and I am a happily married man - I just wish that I would have found this site a LOT earlier in life. Would have saved me a lot of heartache from some really stupid mistakes I have made in my life.

I know a lot of the stuff here is counterintuitive, but being military you know that there are real life examples of how appeasement never works. You need to attack the affair. You don't need to demonize your wife, just her behavior, and there are many ways to explain affairs to children that don't involve denigrating the spouse to the kids. Even if you get divorced they are still going to love their mother.

Speaking of divorce, I would be really proactive in making sure you understand your rights and make a plan of action that will protect your interests and time with your kids if your efforts here come to naught. Right now, you are on that road, seemingly inexorably pointed towards a bad end. So what have you got to lose by trying what we have been exhorting you to do, except your marriage of course?

All,

I haven't read all of the posts from yesterday afternoon or this morning yet, but I just wanted to take a break and send you a thank you! Yesterday I did let the words some of you were saying get to me. I am scared but I do appreciate the help and the support! I'm going to get back to reading the posts you have been sending since I haven't logged on since I left work yesterday afternoon so I have a lot to catch up on.

Thanks again!
G6

G6,

I have hesitated to post because I am the WW, but I can't keep quiet. Perhaps a WW perspective will help you DO something. We exposed my affair to everyone. Our kids are 8,10,12 and 14. Guess what ? They still love me. My parents still love me. My friends still love me. My in-laws still love me. My church still loves me.

I am still married. I was planning on running off with OM after Christmas. But he ran away after EXPOSURE.

Yeah it is scary and embarrassing. But that lasts for just a minute.

The MB principles on this site are not an easy fix to a troubled marriage. It takes a ton of work, and there are no guarantees. But at least you have a chance. If you want a chance.

I'm a WW and I don't hate my husband for exposing. He showed himself to be strong, not wishy-washy and I respect him for fighting for ME.

Thank you! I admit I did wonder about that (if some of you were paid spokesmen :))


Thank you again! I realize you are all on my "team" and I am getting on board with this!

I am working on a plan. And I appreciate everything! I still have a lot catching up to do, I missed a lot of posts from yesterday and this morning.... back to reading!

Giraffe6

Giraffe,

Thank you! I admit I did wonder about that (if some of you were paid spokesmen

Actually we are paid, I for one would be divorced and/or living in a marriage hell of argument, fighting and disrespect, if I had not stumbled on MB.

If one assumes their marriage and family are their biggest and most important asset, then yes I am very well compensated.

This site has changed not just how I deal with my W, but with everyone.

God Bless
Gamma

Click on the carrot/stick link in my sig line.
Click the LINK and read that first post and all its parts.
I have suggested one way to word your exposure statement.


swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth

Thanks marcos! I'm working on that now.... readning the posts I missed yesterday and today. For some reason I just felt too pressured yesterday, but I understand why you guys are doing that, and it's appreciated.

I have a question....

I know everyone says sooner is better. I'm thinking of doing this next week over Thanksgiving. For a couple reasons. I would prefer to tell my kids in person and only one of them is at home, the other three are away (college & living out of the area), but all four boys will be home for the holiday. Plus the OM goes away a lot in the fall and winter (hunts, fishes, etc) so chances are he will be gone anyway. I wanted to do this sooner so we can talk over Thanksgiving but I would prefer to tell as many folks in person as I can, especially our boys. If I do it this way, the only person I should have to tell over the phone is her Dad. I can tell our kids, MIL, and OM ex in person.

G6

Wow, thank you so much! I only quoted the last paragraph but trust me I read it all. I am happy for you and hope/pray I can post something very similar, SOON!

G6

Thanks Pepperband! I know I was a little frustrated yesterday and arguing rather than listening.... thank you for sticking with me.... that goes for ALL of you!

well said! thanks I appreciate all of this. I am working on a strategy!

Tell the one child living at home today.
Chances are, your other two will call you soon after that.
I recommend you get this done before Thanksgiving.

Why?

The secrecy of their affair is romantic right now.
Exposure ruins the romantic secrecy.

Thanksgiving will provide you the opportunity to carry on the carrot of Plan A despite whatever foulness WW exudes.

You are the head of the house.
There will be a family dinner because you will provide whatever is necessary for that dinner. 'EVEN IF' your WW is sulking/pouting/giving you stink-eye. YOU are Mr Turkey carver, and making toasts and saying the blessing.

If WW refuses to cook, you do it, or you order a complete meal from your supermarket. or, you can always make reservations and take the kids out to eat.

YOU decide because YOU are the leader of your family in your home.

IGNORE anything ugly your WW says after exposure.
I have been reading along and I have no doubt you will probably return to the forum after exposure and lament whatever nonsense and foulness that spewed from your WW about exposure.

If WW says something indicating she is sorry, put your arms around her. (Unlikely)

I AM TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW .... IGNORE WHAT SHE SAYS IF IT IS UGLY OR THREATENING!

Carry on with your Thanksgiving plans and IGNORE her unless she is being sociable. Spend time asking your kids about their interests.
Play games.
Play music.
Be festive .... with or without WW.

GREEN = carrot

RED = stick

Thanks, it is good to hear a WW's point of view on this. I appreciate it!

I do understand now why so many of you are kind of "pushy" or just honest and it's nice. Some places just let you boohoo, but I can see MB is just going to tell me like it is, and that's what I needed to hear.

Thanks!
G6

Thanksgiving can demonstrate (to yourself and to your kids and to WW) what an awesome father and husband you are.
Thanksgiving can be the crystal ball that shows WW what family fun and togetherness she will be missing if she continues her adulterous affair.

WW needs to know 100%, that the time for having no consequences to her adultery is O.V.E.R.

Thanksgiving AFTER exposure will provide ample consequences.

Will she be mad?

Let's hope so !!!!!!

Her anger will subside.

Will she be embarrassed?

Let's hope so !!!!!!

Her embarrassment will subside.

Will she experience a wake up call?

Let's hope so.

Put on your combat boots.
This is war!
You are fighting adultery.
You must not lay down you best weapons before you fire the BIG GUN !!!!!

Thanks, I was going to ask to make sure I was clear, but that helped!

So.... it's expose, then if she gets angry, I just continue on spending time with the family (carrot), and hope she joins in or at least realzies what she is and will be missing (stick).... is that right?

Yes, that's right.

You can't do all stick and get "happily married" results.
You can't do all carrot and get"happily married" results.

There must be both.

Stick = reason to end affair
Carrot = reason to stay married

You expose, and only expect her to be pissed, embarrassed, distraught, even frantic.

I've learned that it might not kill the affair immediately (but it could!), but it WILL lead the the death of this affair.

You play the hero for your family, your children...you be the foundation, the safe place.

And you know what? Chances are she'll snap out of the fantasy and want to recover her marriage, her family.

If she chooses not to, then you weren't going to have a marriage anyway, and it will be her loss.

(oh, and I say this as Pep and MB will attest to, as someone who went "all carrot" and NO stick for way too long. Then, in March, I exposed and applied the stick. Affair over, W decides pro-marriage/family or OM...begin withdrawal, move on to recovery. Apply the stick, end her affair).

You can do this.

Good to see you back, Giraffe. We're pulling for you.

NOW you sound like your ready to take action! Great job! Be the hero! We are DEF rooting for you!

Thanks, me too! Yesterday got a little goofy, and again, I'm sorry about that.

And, you will feel better (no longer fearful/helpless/pathetic) after exposure.

You will know that you faced your great challenge and you survived.

Fear (yours) will begin to die with exposure.
Your wife will experience fear after exposure (this fear is the root of her anger, by the way)

In fact, when WW is expressing her anger .... listen until she is fnished.

Then respond to her fear, not her anger.

"I know you are scared."

She will deny.
But repeat it.

Great point, Pep.

Months after exposure, W said to me, reflecting, that it wasn';t that she was angry about exposure, it was that she was afraid of what people would think about her, afraid for the consequences of her actions, afraid I would not committ to recovery and she'd be left w/ nothing (knowing the OM was NOT her future).

And thanked me for saving her, and being her man when she was most afraid in her life.

There is no time without a pending celebration.

Think about it

365 days a year and many are there around the calender.

Exactly.

I agree 100% and I think of my H the exact same way. He told me that he just wanted this to be over once and for all (I caused the false recovery and that was very cruel from my part) and divorce me, but the thing he didn't know that moment is that he really saved me. I was so deep in the crap and tired as he77 and he reached his helping hand. I remember that immediately after him doing the exposure all hell broke loose from OM and me, and I was calling my H just to be nasty towards him. I will never forget the feeling how the anger towards my H just vanished the moment I got him on the phone, it just vanished.

Whatever things your W will say after the exposure, it is just anger, and anger fades.
Someone who have enough balls to expose their spouse's affairs, is a hero. And that is a huge love bank deposit in the long run. It was for me.

We don't talk about it much anymore, but still talk too much about it (but that's a story for my other thread ha, ha)....but just the other day, after picking my W up from work (there was an 'incident'), she stated how GLAD she is OM is off the job, GLAD she is not involved in an affair any longer...shared how much she loves me, our 'new' marriage, and is blessed I have CHOSEN to remain in the marriage, becasue if not, she said "I really would not have any life at all".

We're not at this place without exposure.

G6,

Glad to see you're moving, even if it is just baby steps.

I encourage you to not wait. I think it is wise to do it now.

If WW goes ballistic and threatens to leave the Thanksgiving celebrations, then that's her choice. She'll be the one missing out. You, at that point, lead the family. Remember James Bond. Don't cry and whine to your kids. Be an example to them. Be the pillar of strength.

Let them pressure the WW and express their anger so long as it isn't out of line.

They'll make it very clear that OM will never be welcomed around them.

The fantasy will be shattered. Yes, there will be much anger directed at you for it.

Expect all kinds of crazy to come out of her mouth and for her to be frantic.

Just sit back, with calm, knowing that it is expected. The venom spewed is a script and I encourage you to read up on the reactions you can expect and the things you can expect to hear. It's universal gibberish.

Expose to the kid at home today.

Then .... move down your list one by one.
A tsunami of truth.

Affair killer.

Giraffe6,
I seldom post, mostly read. I know the Marriage Builders program works. I was the BS and was so afraid of her anger or "pushing her away". All she saw or heard was OM telling her the good stuff and painting a pretty picture without a problem in sight.
There was no real headway until she finally understood I could live a happy life without her and was not going to be her "friend" after a divorce.

If you ask family and friends for help and support you will not have to do this alone. Expect anger, if the OM is in the picture the anger is her feelings expressed that you are rocking her boat. Let her see the life she would be missing without you.

You are getting some of the site's best. Many of them were here 8yrs ago when I was Daniel.

Daniel,

Great post.

I, too, could probably summarize when I felt I was making real headway this way (and seconded by my W):

1. when she realized I would never be her 'friend' after divorce

2. that I fought for her and our family (exposure) by eliminating the threat to her/our mrriage/family

Thank you!

helpfordad,
I have followed your posts off and on and see where the tide turned.

Giraffe6 all these great people want to help you. Some of the fears we all had prolonged the recovery of our marriage and made us sick. My kids knew something was up and walked the tightrope around us and didn't know how to act or what to say. Not fair to them. They can't support you if they don't know what the problem is or think it is something they did wrong.
If you ask people for help because you love your wife, and want to recover your marriage, who can hold that against you? Most will want to help. They will only loose respect for your wife if she leaves you for other man and they know you tried to save marriage. Most people know how much effort goes into a marriage and want to see you succeed.
Leap of Faith time. All at once, Jump!

Daniel,

It's comforting to know a vet like yourself has been looking out for me....and sounds like your hopeful for my situation, which i appreciate!

helpfordad and Daniel,

Thanks for the support and for sharing your stories. Thanks to everyone. I am working on my strategy. It probably won't happen in the next couple of days just because I want to make sure I have everything set, and like I said I really want to tell my kids in person. I would like them all to call the OM, then go talk to Mom face to face. I'm sure she is going to be upset, I really don't know if it will be all anger or if she'll say she's sorry. That's what I'm hoping/praying for but I am guessing it will at least start out as anger based on what I am hearing on here. But that is from fear of her own and embarassment and shame.

Giraffe

I think you should expect anger of a kind you can't imagine. You need to expect it. She will likely say things that hurt you to your core. But it is to be expect. Just say something like, " I want to save our marriage, and it can't be saved when there is a secret affair going on."

She will have a choice to make. You can make choosing you as attractive as possible. But no pleading, begging, apologizing for exposure. Be strong, confident, and maybe even somewhat aloof and indifferent, anything but needy.

Once again, I will emphasize, you can't appease, reason, convince her by talking. All you have are your actions, they need to show strength, reason, and love. Love = leadership.

Expect anger like you've never seen.

Expect her to say things like:

"I was going to work on our marriage but you just ruined that!"

"We're divorcing for sure now!"

"How could you betray me like this?"

"You are just being vindictive!"
"I hate you!"
"You want the kids to hate me!"

"How could you do this to him?"


Plenty more. The responses are predictable and laughable. Your response is to emulate James Bond, not react to her anger, and simply say, "I will do what I need to to end your affair and save our marriage. Want a cookie? What do you want for dinner? Did you see how the Broncos are doing this year? Do you think the Packers will finish undefeated? Do you know anyone who likes Snapple?"

Or some variant thereof....

Hi G:

Listen to the people here exposure works very well. I divorced my wife but she sure would have loved it if you were her H instead of me.

She would have loved it if she could sleep with the OM and I would have kept her secret. Did nothing about it and just let her continue. But I don't roll that way. And like you my children were not super young.

My Ex denied everything and kept cheating. I threw her out and exposed to everyone. Told our kids about her and the OM and she was mad and told me out marriage was over. I told her I know our marriage is over I am going to Divorce you so you can go live with the OM.

The affair died that day for her. I had told her if she slept with another man I would divorce her and played hard ball with her. She changed almost right away and she tried for a long time to get me back.

Don't let your wife keep abusing you. Why should she stop doing what she is doing. You are keeping her secret for her and she has two men on her string.

Tell your kids. Tell her if she wants to remain with you she needs to get rid of Mr. Loser.

Now if you want to make sure you lose her then just keep letting her get close to Mr. Loser without her kids or anyone else putting pressure on her. Right now you are plan B if the OM does not work out. Her Affair has been going on a couple of years.

Please don't put up with crap like this. It is like watching a woman getting physically beaten and she keeps going back for more. You deserve better!

The most effective exposure target is OMW. And OM's family, parents kids and closest friends. Your wife has already shown some concern about whether you have told OMXW, who is also a friend of your WW, hint! - she is afraid of her!

HEre:

Why would you like your kids to talk to OM? Talk sense or remorse to him is the last thing you can do, because this man is an active wayward.

Expose this affair to your kids and OMXW immediately.

Kids talking to OM could have a big impact. I have no beef with that.

One of the big thorns in my dad's OW's side was the fact that all of us kids were so cold to her and my brother was flat out opnely hostile.

She'd answer the phone when he'd call and was usually greeted by, "B*tch! Don't answer the f***ing phone! I'm calling to talk to my dad and don't want to hear your f***ing voice!"

He'd then hang up and call right back.

This took its toll over time.

a couple of questions....

if she gets upset which it sounds like she will, but doesn't leave. What do I do?

If she is sorry and wants to stay, what is the plan to make sure there is NC?

If she leaves and just moves out or even moves in with OM.... what do I do? Do I wait it out, etc?

Thanks, just working on the plan and trying to think of possible reactions. I am expecting anger based on what I am hearing on here, but I could also see here breaking down after that and saying she wants to stay OR depending on how far in the fantasy she is and what the OM and her talk about after exposure, she might just leave.

Thanks!
G6

Nothing.


I will post an outline below.


Let her go, don't help her move and move your finances to a secure place.

She will probably get mad and make all sorts of threats. Just don't react. Don't fight, don't laugh [she will be really bizarro], don't apologize.

I would DEMAND that she end her affair with her OM and let her know this will go to divorce if all contact doesn't end. Ask her to send a no contact letter to the OM. It has to be approved by you and mailed by you. [It can be found in the book, Survivng an Affair]

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

G6,

I, too, was scared you-know-what after exposure and whined about the "what-ifs"...what if she leaves? what if she runs to OM? what if the threatens divirce? what if....

And you know what Mel told me to do? Nothing.

And you know what my W did after going apesxxt at exposure? Nothing.

Oh, she yelled, screamed...even grabbed a suitcase from the basement (and I started to weaken). She stormed out of the house, called her uncle from Walgreen's, then came back home and we went to bed -- after she put the suitcase back.

As Mel and Marital and NG etc. were wise enough to remind me: where, really, would she be going if she left?

I still think you need to realize something. Nothing you do will "make" her do anything. She will do what she wants to do, one way or the other. You can keep getting what you've been getting. Or you can try to fix it.

It sounds like to me you are thinking that once you expose she will see the error of her ways and immediately jump right back into the marriage. I doubt that happens. If she stays, it will likely be for some self-serving reason in the beginning. I don't want to discourage you, just want you to be prepared.

Withdrawal lasts a long time, and will last indefinitely if NC doesn't happen. You have to insist on it. The time for compromises isn't now.

You don't realize it, but you hold the cards, but it is not going to be easy. She will probably act like a prisoner in her own home, she won't want to be there. You need to be the man you should be. Caring, but not wimpy. Do the right things, don't kowtow to her every whim and outburst. Don't explode at the things will say. Respond that you want to stay married and make a good marriage and you hope she will too.

Don't go overboard and lovey-dovey things, like flowers, cards, etc, they will probably anger her and make her sick. Just make things where any sane person would want to join in. When she is sane again, she might.

Think long and hard on this point. One thing I guarantee you she considers is filing for divorce and getting you out. A scenario has never entered her mind where she would be out on her can. If she leaves or will not stop contact, I would definitely consider filing first. Also, no matter what she says or does, never move out of your home, never.

You would control the timetable, she would be reacting to you.
The unpleasant scenarios that she hasn't considered will be in play. She will have to envision a life that is different than her fantasy.

Above all, try to stay even keeled. try to minimize the roller coaster. This is what a wise MB told me when something happened and I was happy because it was "a sign of hope."

From BigKahuna
You and your marriage CAN survive your wife's anger - it cannot survive an ongoing affair.
Herb if you see every little thing as "giving you some hope" you will be an emotional wreck soon.
You have to learn not to get your validation from her. Know who you are in Christ. Be happy.

Much of what you need to do after exposure will be the save your own mental health and make sure that, if the time comes, you will be able to build a good marriage. I hope you get the chance.

I will say it once again. Any semblance of your old marriage is gone, get that through your head and embrace it. This is about making something good out of a pile of ####.

A lot of the success or failure depends on you. I will be honest, I will probably not give you any more advice because the mindset of a man that had his wife in a long term affair and she moved out to be with OM, moved back in and kept the affair going and he took it is foreign to even my conflict avoiding mind, I can't grasp it. I think your mindset really needs to change. A lot.

I haven't told you anything trying to discourage you, but I think it important that you not be Pollyanna.

If you get the affair stopped (ie. expose it and see), then you have a chance.

It is far from a slam dunk. I have been given the opinion by some that it is 50/50. Maybe it is because of my experience that I am not so optimistic. But I know you will have a chance where you didn't before. A lot depends on where things have gotten/get to before you start the ball rolling. That is why there is the urgency you feel from us, we know this. Also, a lot depends on your wife's make-up, personality. In my case, the combination of the state of the game and her make-up was too much to overcome. I have had more than one on here tell me that they thought we would make it, mainly because there was no reason we couldn't have, but we didn't.

One thing I will tell you, if you follow the MB way, and that could eventually include Plan B and divorce, but if you follow it, you will come out mentally healthier and better prepared to be a husband, with your wife hopefully, or with another. I guarantee it. For now focus on getting the affair stopped, Plan A, and getting through withdrawal. Set the bar high, a good marriage or nothing. Not this mess you have now.

Now, go for it and get the ball rolling.

G6,
mmmherb and others are giving you very good advice.
You are chasing her and waiting for her to respond and spending alot of your time and energy trying to be what she wants. Seems like it is a bit backwards. Why would she change anything when she hasn't lost anything. 2 guys putting forth effort and she gets to call the shots.
After too many months of chasing my WW and wondering what I did wrong or right and how she would judge it I had enough. I worked on me and my kids. I took kids out for fun. I went out for (still married) fun. I backed off much of the contact I had. When she figured out I was spending less time waiting for her and was happy without her and didn't NEED her she got worried. When I stopped following her and changed course she started following me more and trying to please me. Sometimes when she had kids and called I just let phone ring, made her wonder??? I also dropped 50+ lbs and started dressing better. She was afraid to loose me.

d

That's one thing which really throws of a wayward. When you back off and quit looking like you care what she's up to but start living your life without consideration for what she may or may not want to do.

Be friendly, but aloof.

I'm going to post the 180 to you. It is not MB advice. It's a guideline, nothing more. It helped me, but mainly as a mental checklist for avoiding behavior I didn't like to do.

It isn't a set of hard and fast rules. It's a guide and nothing more. Tailor it to your needs.

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back.

Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

All, thanks you for the comments, stories and inspiration! Sorry I was,kt online until now. My computer at work is being rebuilt and it's hard to use the one at home with m W in the room. I'm sending this from mu phone so I'll keep it short, and hopefully not too many typos!

I just got caught up on the posts.... Thanks again!

Mel and helpforlostdads - I'm so glad to see both of you posting here again. I know I was a little defensive the other day, but I imaine I'm not the first one you see get that way, especially when first coming here. It's been a wake up call for me for sure. I have spent the past day just going through this and working on a strategy. I met eith the theraist today and discussed it with her, and was surpised she didn't advise against it. I think given that my W moved out, then asked me to take her back, and then continue the affair. I think even the therapist agreed it's time to let their secret out. She did suggest I tell my wife to tell the kids, but I think that won't work anyway. My W had a hard enough time telling the kids she was leaving in Sep.

G6

helpforthelostdads, I like the guidelines! Reminds me of a lot of the things I'm doing wrong.... That advice could be perfect for me.... Thanks again!

Great post HTLD.....

YOU need to tell the kids. She will likely try to massage the story to make herself look saintly, or make you look bad. Your therapist already 'validated' her actions. Tell them first when you are exposing the affair. When are you going to expose?

Listen, she doesn't even need to know that you are exposing it until after it is done. That way, there can be no spinning of facts, no getting stories straight, no plans made to derail.

Tell everyone the facts, facts only, and ask for their help. Don't tell them what to do or even suggest anything. Just tell them the facts and ask for their help.

What happens after that, the only thing you can control is what you do.

Once again, you need to embrace what is happening. This is a tipping point, the beginning of something new. To rely and consult with someone that has until this point validated your avoidance and helped get you to this point is just stalling.

You really need to get it. You don't yet.

Thanks for the apology, Giraffe. And I am glad you are getting on board now. I think you will reap great benefits.

And it is not a good idea to ask your wife to tell the kids. First off, it will just create unneccesary conflict that will likely result in your children NOT getting the truth. It is stressful enough without adding that unneccessary step. Just tell them the truth and encourage the children to discuss their feelings with her.

I am sure your therapist means well, but she is clearly not trained in infidelity.

G6
Your need to tell the kids yourself the facts. Not mean or belittling their mom but so they understand what is happening.
She will tell them her side later, count on it. Hers will be anger and justification, they will believe you.
You don't have to tell anyone else what to think about your wife's affair. They will have an opinion, you're asking for help in saving your marriage and telling them you want things to be better. That will go a long ways towards getting them to help.
Lastly your wife won't believe you are doing this. Too bad, this is more than you can do yourself.

Tell the kids asap.

I would say it as tell everybody ASAP. Tell the kids first, but make sure you are able to do it all in a short time. Exposure should be in one fell swoop, not dragged out. Get it all done before she even gets wind of it.

You don't want her to find out and do a preemptive strike on some of your targets. Everyone needs to hear your factual, straightforward, unemotional version first. When she comes in like a crazy woman, the contrast will be stark.

G6, you need to do this brother. Its not just the road back to your marriage. Its the road back to your manhood. It really is.

Fight and you will win. Even if you lose. I promise you I have yet to see anyone come back and say they shouldn't have done it.

Hi all, sorry I finally got my computer back at work but looks like I might have to give it back to the help desk again. I have a computer at home but don't ususally have privacy to go and read the posts. I will from my phone but the text is so small and it's not easy to post.

I have not exposed yet, still thinking of Thanksgiving when I have all the kids face to face. I admit I am stuggling doing it over a holiday but I feel the time is right.

I haven't really "told" my wife to end the affair. She even told me back when I first discovered that I was making it easy for her. That's never been my intention. I was trying to let her get through it. Of course I realzie that plan hasn't worked! Should I talk to her and let her know that I don't appect this and that is has to end! I mean when she came back after leaving I did tell her I didn't want to share her any logner and she agreed, but that's really the closest I've came to asking her to end the A. I really feel like a doormat, probably because I've been one! haha. I want to talk to her tongiht and address the affair and tell I feel it needs to end. I don't plan to give any hints of my plans, just realized over the weekend that we have talked about this over the past four months but I haven't really said, "hey, this needs to end!" or whatever I'm supposed to say.

Thanks!

G6,

Over the weekend, my W asked what I was doing on the computer at night?

I told her, being O&H, that I was shopping for a birthday gift for her (her bday is in Dec.).

Her response? "You already gave me a gift for life -- a second chance to remain married to you."

We're not here w/ out exposure.

You need to expose ASAP.

Good luck.

FIRST expose the affair, Giraffe. Then when the dust settles go to her and DEMAND she end her affair. Exposure is a critical element to the recovery of your marriage and needs to be done FIRST.

here

AFTER the affair is exposed, set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Thanks helpfodad. That is the plan, just prefer to have the kids face to face, which I will later this week. I was just curious if I should talk to her tongiht about ending the affair. No mention of anything else, just was thinking over this past weekend and realized I hadn't really demanded or even asked that she end it. Other than when she came back home, I asked if she would be faithful, she said yes and that she agreed I wouldn't have to "share her with someone else". I realize my approach of letting her get through this on her own hasn't worked and in fact has just enabled the affair. Like I said I feel like I've been a doormat, because I guess I have been. Just wanted to know what you guys think about me talking to her, being firm, putting my foot down if you will. Not demanding because I assume in her current state of this fog she's in, she might just laugh at me.

Thoughts?

P.S. I love this part in your message....
"Her response? "You already gave me a gift for life -- a second chance to remain married to you."

We're not here w/ out exposure."

I hope/pray to have similar results and us recovering our marriage, but I know that's not the first step and there's a lot of work to be done between now and then. Just wanted you to know that I liked that message. And I'm happy for you and your wife!!!!!!

FIRST expose the affair, Giraffe. Then when the dust settles go to her and DEMAND she end her affair. Exposure is a critical element to the recovery of your marriage and needs to be done FIRST.

here

AFTER the affair is exposed, set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Thanks Mel! So glad you're back on my posts!

I agree, but would it hurt if I talked to hber tonight? Again not to give away anything, but to just talk. I only ask because we haven't really done that in the past four months. I mean we've talked but I have really haven't demanded or even asked her to end the affair. I have said I don't accept it but that's about it. I was just curious.... thanks.

Hi Mel, did you post the same thing twice? I looked it over but couldn't see anyting different, just making sure I didn't miss something. thanks!

Giraffe, who are your other exposure targets? What about parents, close family, etc?

And when will you be exposing to your kids? WHAT DAY?

What will you be telling them?

"Later in this week" could mean AFTER Thanksgiving and I think that would be a bad idea. This really needs to be done SOONER, not later, so that the dust has settled a couple of days by the time you sit down to Thanksgiving dinner.

\
\
I reposted it because I thought we might have been posting at the same time and you wouldn't see it.

I don't see how you keep missing this:

Without exposure, chances affair ends approaches zero.

ZERO!

Come Friday, I hear this, "Well, the holiday went pretty good, I think I will wait some. What do you guys think?"

"I think I will try to talk to her again."

"With Christmas coming up, it doesn't feel like the right time."

I give.

I wanted to do before Thanksgiving but all of the kids won't be home until late the night before, so I was thinking of Friday.

Other targest or her parents (MIL lives close by but FIL is out of state). And OM exW.

G6

And, of course, "I don't want to spoil New Years."

"I hate to ruin MLK's birthday."

"Presidents Day just doesn't seem like a good time."

"St. Patrick's Day should be fun."

"April Fool's Day, that would be wrong."

Fair enough! I admit I have even questioned myself on this. However, this affair has gone on for a couple of years so she has made it through holidays with her family while still carrying on the affair so I think just keeping that in mind will help me to do this.... I truly just want to have my kids face to face when I tell them this.

G6,

Please listen to Mel...EXPOSE FIRST! Then, give her the requirements for staying in the marriage.

Another note I could've added to my post is we were on a beautiful drive yesterday, just W and I, when she said to me "Thank you for being my husband and creating a great marriage with me. Some days I feel I don't have to wait the 2 years to know I made the best choice to end my A and remain your wife. Do you feel it would be a mistake to walk away from all that we've created here, now?"

I turned to her and said "there are only 3 things that we make me leave at this point (NC initiated by her, another A, not working MB program)"

To which she responded: "I know, and they're tattooed in my brain and what I live by each day."

On a side note, G6...I hope we end up a success story, but even if we didn't, I know this:

I am a much better man, father, person becasue of this and the MB program, and I'll be okay, even without W if it should be. I can only control myself.

Good luck.

I would do it in the next 2 days. Any child that is not home can be told by phone. This is not something that has to be done in person. You WANT this all done BEFORE Thanksgiving so your wife can feel the discomfort on that day. That is KEY. Your family will be together and you want them all to know and you want your wife to know they know!

And you don't want it done the day before because everyone will be in an uproar. Tomorrow and today would be perfect.

Exposing BEFORE the holiday gives you a special STRATEGIC advantage that you won't have otherwise because your family will be together on Thanksgiving.

Do this STRATEGICALLY, instead of fearfully, Giraffe, or you are going to get worn down quick. You need this exposure to be EFFECTIVE. This is not a check the box and run kind of thing. It needs to be done right in order to be effective.

G6,

I exposed before a weekend of planned family events...services, soccer games, basketball games, a recital...perfect!!!

Immediate consequences of exposure, immediate 'evidence' of W getting off the fence (or not), and finding out on which side.

Listen to Mel's advice...

Be STRATEGIC, not AVOIDANT. That will bring you the best results.

You don't accept reality? You don't accept facts?
Your choice of words with your wife ("I don't accept your affair") is weak and ambiguous.

I think ambiguity might be your most prominent personality trait. You do not like taking a position based on principle, and holding firm. You are rubbery. You are uncertain. You doubt yourself. Mr Cellophane.

You should "accept" the fact that your wife is making preparations to replace you with OM.

When speaking to any wayward (wife or husband) one must use clear and very precise language.

If you ever do expose, do not do this, like some recently have.

When the fury from hell comes, do not say, "well, some people told me to do this."

You need to own it. You did it because you want to have a marriage, a real marriage, a good marriage, and that can't happen with this affair going on in secret.

Be a man, taking his wife back.

Silence is better than openly second guessing what you're doing.

Own exposure.

YES, I AM!! I know that, it's what I am struggling with!! Both my W and I are bad at confrontations, probably why we both have avoided talking about this. But I know it's up to me, not her to bring it and to say I wont' tollerate this and it has to end or else there's no chance for our marriage.

Thanks Pepper!! I appreciate the honesty but I already know that about myself and don't like it. I do believe in standing up for myself on principles, I just have a hard time actually doing it.

Thanks herb! I like the entire post! And yes, I will own it. Once I do this, if/when she goes off on me and asks what I'm doing, I plan to say, I am fighting for the woman I love, for our marriage, for our family, for myself!

G6

Thanks HTLD! I do second guess myself, a lot! I think I have second guessed almost everything I've said or done the past few months!!

Giraffe, don't use this as an excuse to put this off. It is more important for you to expose BEFORE the family gathering than it is to tell all your kids in person. They don't need to be told in person. That would be nice, but not necessary. In fact, it might be easier for them to get the news over the phone.

And be sure and ask them each to speak to your wife BEFORE Thanksgiving. She needs to know on that day, that everyone knows.

I don't see it as an excuse, I really want to tell them in person. They are older but still, this is going to be rough news for them to hear and I would rather be with them. I agree that before is better, but I just don't like telling my kids over the phone.

Another question.... WW works nights sometimes and will be at work each night, Wed-Sat (including Thanksgiving night). Is that bad timing, if she has someplace to go each night?

Question.... I think OM is out of town this past weekend and maybe all week. And maybe not accessible even via cell phone. Is that a problem as far as him getting the word? No excuses, just planning. I want to be the most effective.

Thanks.

Again, telling them in person is not as important as the strategic advantage of having everyone know while they are together on Thanksgiving. So, yes, I do view this another avoidance tactic. There is no reason this can't be done over the phone. It won't hurt if you have to tell one or two over the phone. We do this all the time, and phone exposures are just fine.

Another good reason to expose today and tomorrow. If she is home all night Tuesday, that would be ideal.

G6,

Told my kids in person...W's side via phone...all of OMs family, employers were done via registered mail...

Just do it, please.

Thanks Mel! I really don't see it as avoiding anything other than telling them over the phone. BUT I understand I have been been second quessing things so I understand why you are saying that. Plus I'm sure you deal with folks avoiding this moment all the time.

What about the other question about the OM not being home. I think he is away possbily all week. His son might even be with him. If I tell his ex about this, she can contact my WW but not him or his son until they get back.... is that a problem?

Thanks.

What does this mean then? That you are avoiding the exposure until AFTER Thanksgiving?


No.

I am saying this because if you are using this as a reason to DELAY exposure, it is a WEAK reason. And weak reasons are due to conflict avoidance. But perhaps you are not saying that you are going to DELAY the exposure, just that you won't tell the child who is not there for Thanksgiving until gets home. Is that what you are saying?

OM is not your problem at all. I don't get this question. You expose to the people you do. What they do is not up to you. Only what you do.

It's not that complicated, dude. Expose, disrupt the fantasy. The chips fall from there.

Once again, embrace it as the new beginning it is. The beginning of an unknown, to be sure, but a new beginning, a step out of the hell you are in now. You don't act like you like it there.

Embrace it.

Mel ~~~>

I know. I must be insane. When a poster asks us to help him push a car up the hill and he REFUSES to take off the parking brake, I should know better.....

As soon as one excuse is shot down, he comes up with another one. I have to remember that this is not my marriage and step away.

Stepping away.........

Wow! Seven days later and he's STILL equivocating.

It's like the MB forum was pulled into some cheap sequel to Groundhog Day.

(Bill, is that you . . .)

I've said that about 5 times so far. I think I will do it and enjoy my Thanksgiving.

G6,

Quit over analyzing and star acting. Please?

You're seriously driving us nucking futs.

Expose. Get it done.

Quit making sorry a$$ excuses and just do it.

I can tell you that waiting for the result of the study of the impact of your exposure on the history of the papacy and it future impact on world history is an exercise in futility.

You're seriously coming off an an indecisive and cowardly person who continuously finds excuses for not doing what needs to be done.

Tell OMW. Who cares what she does with the info.

Tell your kids on the phone. NOW. TODAY.

Stop equivocating.

Giraffe,

The Monty Python plan for taking a stance.



Please take action.

God Bless
Gamma

Mel ~~~>

Hey, Pep - from what I have had the pleasure to witness;

I PITY THE FRICKIN' WALL!

shaddup, you yankee dawg!!

Mel I am so sorry for whatever I put you through when you were trying to get me to do this. You were so right.

If you hadn't helped me, I'd be in a whole different place right now.

This is just so hard to watch.

Why does it matter where WW will be at night or if the OM will be home to expose?

Do you need their help to expose?

Telling the kids before thanksgiving will only help because WW will have to face them for the holiday weekend.

How can they put pressure on WW if you tell them when they have to leave to go back.

***EDIT***

He hasn't read my post. I feel stronger ever since exposure. I mess up, but these kind people set me straight. Trust what they're saying.

Please read the posts of the BH's that exposed.

Do not pay attention to the story of what happened or didn't happen after, it is irrelevant and somewhat out of your hands.

I am not the same man I was before, in a good way. It is impossible to really put in words, but it changed me. Things will be different with me from now on.

I was asking becauase I understand that it's best to hit everyone at once.... if he isn't going to be around for a few days I wasn't sure if that impacts the plan. I'm just asking questions. You guys have either done this yourselves or advised many on how to do it. Every question is not a delay tactic. If I do this I want to be the most effective so in order to make a good plan I am trying to ask for advice.

Thanks.

I'm not sure why asking questions is avoiding exposure. You guys I assume want me to do this correctly. I'm just trying to figure out if him possibly not finding out about exposure for a few days matters. I was under the impresion that the biggest impact was to get my WW and the OM all at once. I was just asking. I actually have a few questions for you guys but not i'm affraid to ask I feel like every time I ask something I get told I'm putting it off. NO! I jsut want to make sure I'm doing it right.

I can be indecisive, I'll give you that. However, as you guys already know, this is a BIG deal. I am just trying to make a plan and make sure it goes as well as possible. I know I can't control the reaction or the outcome, but I am only asking question to learn and to make the best decision. That really shouldn't be so aggravating to you guys.

Ok, I have a few questions. Hoepfully this won't lead to a ton of posts calling me a coward or putting it off.

You have all said exposure is the best way to end the affair. I have to say I agree that is sounds very effective!

You have said I can expect anger from my WW. And I need to remain calm. I get that.

But....

I know someone said there's a slim chance she will break down and apoligize, if so I offer a hug, etc.

I realize that's not likely and the response I should expect is anger.... understood.

But, if she gets upset but doesn't leave and doesn't end the affair.... then what? I know some of you said the affair might end right away or it might not.... do I wait, what do I do in that case?

What if she leaves and goes to him? Again, just asking questions so I'm prepared. Obviously none of us know exactly what will happen but you have either all been through this, going through it now or have advised many on the outcomes, so I'm asking.

Also.... you said to continue on the the holidays and life as normal and let her pout. What if she doesn't pout but just doesn't join in?

Or what if the kids dont' just sit there and be calm? I assume they will be pretty cold with her.

These are just questions so please, please don't call me names or accuse me of stalling. I am closer now that I have been in the past week, so work with me. I am one of those people that over think everything and telling me to just do it probably isn;t going to make it so. Whether it's the right way for you guys or not, I don't know, but I am being open and letting you know this is how I work. So please help me out.

Thanks, as always I appreciate the support.

Giraffe6

Thanks.... I wasn't sure if it mattered or not that's why I was asking. I just didn't know if it was best to have her at home where she had to face us and I didn;t know it if it would be more effective to have him at home to get the impact at the same time as her. I am just trying to make sure I do this with my best chance for effective results. And I wasn't planning to do it right before the kids went back. I was just waiting until Friday when they would al be face to face. They don't go back until Sunday. I am considering it today or tomorrow so it happens before Thanskgiving, I am just asking questions to finalize my strategy.

Even better. So, POSOM's gone for a few days. Let him come back to the flames of he77 you fanned with your global exposure during his absence. Your gift to POSOM: give him a holiday he'll remember.

G6, there are two kinds of BH�s here. The ones like you who analyze, equivocate, are scared, ask a million questions, and do nothing for a while before taking action because they sit around trying to figure things out.

Then there�s the ones that track down the OM, put him in the hospital, throw the WW out on her a$$, and have massive cajones and don�t take crap.

The sweet spot is in the middle. We understand being nervous and afraid. We understand asking questions. But this isn�t rocket science. It�s really rather simple. Your WW has been running around screwing another man.

You have your exposure targets. You have the info you need. So act. It�s really that simple. We get frustrated because we�re repeating the same things over and over again to you and we�re trying to help you. We can�t expose for you.

Your response after exposure is key. You need to be emotionless and strong. You need to not back down and you need to be ready for the sh*tstorm she�s going to hurl your way with anger, vitriol, venom, and screaming that will come from this. You will seriously question if this was the right thing to do, but we�ve seen it all before and the answer is always the same. It is the right thing to do no matter what path your marriage takes. You can�t save your marriage as long as there is an active affair.

Your kids are the greatest weapon in all of this since they can freely express themselves to your WW.

So stop analyzing. Pick up the phone and call your kids. Call her family. Call your family. Call OM�s family or write them on FB. Contact OMW.

That�s it. Nothing more to it.

Go read GJM�s thread. He was initially afraid, like you. But look at the drastic turn around since. OM is running scared. WW is wavering. But he�s back in control of the situation and is calling the shots on things. Will he save his marriage? Who knows. But the odds of it happening are much higher now after exposure and he feels a ton better now that he�s controlling the situation.

What HTLD said.

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned as an exposure target. OM is military also, correct? If so, I'm sure his superiors wouldn't be too happy with him messin with another soldier's W. If you expose to your kids and they hammer your W and you expose to his chain of command and they hammer him, this A would be toast.

H4U.

One more thing....Thank you for your service. People defending our country shouldn't have to deal with this crap, so put an end to it!

Giraffe6,

Yes exposure is your best bet at ending the affair your wife is having.......
Your wife will be angry, don't doubt that, so what the madder the more you know it has worked.......
You just need to repeat to her over and over again that you will do what ever you have to in order to save your marriage and family.
If she needs a hug give her one as a friend for now........
She may not leave right away or end her affair right away, this is a process when the fantasy is blown out of the water.........She will spew all kinds of craziness and ridiculous thoughts and words, pay no attention to anything she says, just keep repeating the statement above about saving the marriage.......and that you love her and are willing to work on the marriage....
Only if she meets your requirements to stay in the marriage.
If she leaves and goes with him you can't stop her, let her really feel and understand what her decisions will have for her in her future.....
You stay in the house with your children, do not leave, if she wants to leave let her.........
Sometimes a drastic situation and move wakes them up when they realize what they have done and what the consequences will be......
Let the fantasy relationship hit the reality one square in the face.......
Watch how quickly they see each other for what they really are.....
Liars and cheaters.....
If she stays you go on with life for you and the kids if she doesn't engage she doesn't you make it the best you can for all of you.
If your kids are cold with her, good she needs to feel what havoic she has caused......It is up to her to deal with her children you don't have to intervene for her.........
I exposued Nov 23rd 2009, just before the holidays, we all got through it and I know my husband suffered the most, I made it the best I could for the boys and our families.
It was hard but it is a great time of year for the waywards to understand what family is...........real family.
I over think everything as well, but I am telling you it was such a relief for me and I underestimated how powerful family members and my children were in this situation......
My husband to this day says it turned around for him the day I told our grown sons, 20 and 22 at the time......
I say don't waste anymore time, you need to respect your family.....don't let some other man get away with hurting them anymore and you don't know it yet but he is...............you can't protect them from this it is better for them to see their Dad protect them and be honest with them then to let your wife just leave them for the OM........they will be angry with you if you do not.........
They look up to you......they expect you to have their best interests at heart and letting someone else steal their family life is not protecting them.
I have also been married 24 years, you don't know how powerful that # of years is.........it is a life time of memories and happy times.........let that work for you.....
Don't be afraid, there is no good time for this kind of news so now is as good a time as any...........Let your boys help you, let your family and friends help you....
Affairs are wrong, in everyone's eyes not just ours and yours..........
jessi

Giraffe, I suspect he's going to find out as soon as you expose. Either way, don't waffle based on who's going to be where. If you've got your contacts all lined up and you're ready to go, EXPOSE.

Quote

But, if she gets upset but doesn't leave and doesn't end the affair.... then what? I know some of you said the affair might end right away or it might not.... do I wait, what do I do in that case?

What if she leaves and goes to him? Again, just asking questions so I'm prepared. Obviously none of us know exactly what will happen but you have either all been through this, going through it now or have advised many on the outcomes, so I'm asking.

Also.... you said to continue on the the holidays and life as normal and let her pout. What if she doesn't pout but just doesn't join in?

Or what if the kids dont' just sit there and be calm? I assume they will be pretty cold with her.

So many extraneous questions, questions about things that don't really matter, seemingly further hand-wringing and delay tactics masquerading as questions.

What is the main problem here, G6? What is it that you have to solve before you can do anything else, before you can go to step two in your algorithm of putting HumptyDumpty back together again? Your wife's affair. You must kill the affair. You kill the affair by exposure. Which you are afraid to do because things may get a tad unpleasant, the wife may get a little upset and, gulp, yell at and/or threaten you with dire consequences. At which point you'll be back here berating us because she did so.

Well, let's put it all out on the table here. Your wife is gonna be PISSED, all WS are, because you told the truth and now everyone knows and are calling to try to help end the affair. That's what exposure does, G6, brings out the truth and all of a sudden shows the WS that their wonderful mystical magical affair world is just cheap and tawdry. Most of all it brings shame, shame is a very powerful motivator, because if what the WS was doing was right, they wouldn't be ashamed of how people they love and respect now see their behavior.

It takes strength to look at a WS square in the eye and tell them that you are going to stand resolute and rebuild a life together, that failure is NOT an option, and you will not be deterred by crying/screaming/threats. That you are doing this not out of spite but out of a conviction that this can be overcome as long as the two of you have the strength and initiative to see it all the way through. That you will not allow the affair to continue and be disrespected, and that if she cannot get on board the MB express to recovery, that as much as you want to show her how great your new marriage could be, you cannot stay with a wayward spouse who is carrying on with another man while living with you. I think you will be surprised at her reaction.

So what if she doesn't participate? Who gives a damn if she doesn't want to act like part of a family. For your sake I hope she has a horrible Thanksgiving and an even crappier Xmas and New Year. I hope she feels so bad about what she's done that she ralphs up her turkey dinner. I hope that forever her really crappy 2011 holiday season is irrevocably tied to her affair and its aftermath. All you have to do is continue to Plan A, be the best husband and partner you can be. If she doesn't respond, just shrug it off and continue Plan A. Why let it ruin your kids' holiday. If she sees you as a family having a good time, it will drive the point home even more that she could potentially lose this.


Time to either sh&t or get off the pot, G6. Stop the hand wringing, and the obfuscation, because you're not fooling anyone here or your wife for that matter.

Just yourself.

And I'm going to continue to call you on it, because I am resolute, G6, I am going to continue to pester you and not allow you to watch your marriage sift like grains of sand through your fingers. I know you won't put me on ignore because you seem to be drawn here like moth to a flame, otherwise why would you come here and continue to argue and squirm when people are pointedly telling you to put your big boy pants on?

This being holiday season coming up. Use it to your advantage!

You've got to just do it and handle what happens as it happens. She will be angry. That much is predictable. You will feel stronger. That much is predictable. Your family and children will rally in support of you, which will touch you and show you that this is the right thing to do.

You have nothing to lose and the clock is ticking. Do it knowing you can't control what happens but you WILL gain a feeling of doing the right thing instead of watching helplessly while your house burns to the ground.

Focus on you, the work you need to do and trust the process. You can do this!! I'm rooting for you Giraffe. DO IT TODAY.

STEP ONE: EXPOSE THE AFFAIR!!!

STEP TWO: THERE CAN BE NO STEP TWO WITHOUT STEP ONE!!!

Tell you what: you expose as everyone is advising you to do, before Thanksgiving.

Come back here for advice once you get whatever reactions.

Deal?

You know what absolutely will not work, and will do nothing to either end her affair, or save your marriage?

This;

Hi Hopeforus! Thanks for the post. I'm not military and neither is OM, you might have me confused with anothter poster. I do appreciate the post, just wanted to clear that up for you and others who might be thinking that.

Giraffe6

Hmmm, thanks SugarCane.... that is fair, but I would really like some things to expect so I am prepared. I know it may sound like stalling but it's really just how I think. But that is a fair reply. And I want to do this either way, I would just prefer some things to expect other than she'll be mad and I just have to be calm. That sounds way too easy!

Many posters have told you what to expect. Now go find out in real life. You have no idea how much better you're going to feel even with the tasmanian devil your wife will become once exposed.

Life rewards action (as Dr. Phil likes to say. Not a fan of his but I do love this statement).

No, I thought not.

Moving on...

Maybe you should get someone to come in and take your place.

Oh, wait. Never mind.

I want to make sure you understand. I'm getting the impression that you think you need to sit down and have a "family meeting" and expose with the WW in attendance.

Exposer is done without her knowing about it first or during. You can tell her after you do it but you dont do it with her in the room. She will try to stop you.

I dont know why I got that impression other than worrying she will not be home but just wanted to make sure you understood that.

10 pages of advice. No exposure still.

Awaiting UN approval for exposure.

Thanks LuvsDavid! No, I was just wondering if it mattered that she would have an "out" or a place to go for the next few nights rather than having to face her family. And I felt it might give her a place to be and talk to him, etc. That's all. I appreicate the post. No, I don't plan to have her in the room when I tell the kids or anyone. Just asking if it matters that she has a place to go (work) for each night this week starting tomorrow. Including Thanksgiving night.

Yes, but...

Things you control - What you do

Things you don't control - everything else

Things you have done - nothing

Thank you americajin! Very brutal but also helpful! It's not easy to just stop being an over thinker. I know my current strategy of "waiting her out" isn't working. I know giving her "respect" that she hasn't earned is just making me loose self respect. I know giving her "time and space" just means space from me and time with him! I know not telling anyone about this, wasn't protecting her, it was just protecting her secret (I just figured that one out recently!). But even knowing all of this.... I still find myself over thinking it. Trust me, I am on board with this. I just need to be confident in my strategy. I don't want to just start a war without a plan. And I realize I'm already in a war, and I didn't start it, but you know what I mean.

I just wonder what in the last week of posts has giving you mixed messages or confused you. Who has not shown support for your fears and understood your hesitation? We've been there.

I'm out until further notice. I mean it this time.

You HAVE a plan. It's spelled out here in pages and pages of posts.

Execute it ASAP. You are losing some of the best people on here Giraffe. They are moving on to help others who are ready and willing to take action.

All this thinking is just a defense against getting busy. Is this how you are in life and in your marriage? Do you hesitate and over think all the time?

This waffling is not attractive to a woman. Your wife wants you to show her how much you care. Yes, it's a war but it's a war about truth and about what's right. Star the process. You WILL feel stronger.

This is getting insanely annoying.

you have all been here for me and it's appreciated, a lot! I don't think I've said anyone has given me mixed messages or confused me. I did have one day (my second day here) when I got a little upset but other than that I don't think I've suggested folks here aren't supportive, etc. I was confused and scared BEFORE I got here, it's why I came here! I don't know if many have just jumped at exposure the first week. I'm sure some have, maybe even the first day. I have been straight with all of you, especailly today and just told you that I am an over thinker. I didn't say I like it, but it's who I am. I had some questions that I wanted to ask today, that's all. I appreciate everything and if you need to step away I understand. My intention isn't to frustrate anyone here, or anywhere! I just need to process this the best way for me. It's no fun feeling like a doormat or like you're being used by your wife of 24 years. It's no fun feeling like you're not being open with your family. I know I'm not the first person to say these things.

Thanks for the support!

Giraffe, are you an engineer?

Thanks zibbles!

I don't think wanting to wait until my kids are home so I can tell them face to face is a defense against getting busy or a stall tactic, I just feel it's the right thing to do. And if it's what I feel is best for me and my children I don't see why others can't support that. I have said plenty of things on here that have deserved some remarks about stalling and I've accpeted those. But wanting to tell my kids in person doesn't seem like a bad thing.

I certainly don't want to loose the support of some of the top posters here or anyone for that matter. I NEED support! But that doesn't mean I should have to do something like telling my kids over the phone if it's not what I'm cofortable with.

And as for hesitating in life etc.... yes, I made that clear that I am an over thinker and I am indecisive. Not always proud of it but again, it's who I am. I don't think that's something you can just turn off even if you know it's a problem.

G6

Ok Giraffe. I want to throw something out there for you.

Some people value feelings. Feelings trump everything and they're willing to feel everything in order to find fulfillment. In fact, these types thrive on intensity and drama. Often, these are the waywards who talk about needing to be happy and their affairs are about being happy in life over all other rational and practical concerns. Obviously, letting feelings run the show 100% is dangerous and destructive.

Then there are the thinkers who are so determined to think their way through things that they often short circuit the feelings. Thinkers tend to think through the feelings. Instead of saying "I'm angry", they say "I think I'm angry". All feelings get filtered through the mind because at the root, they are terrified of "messy" feelings.

You are putting off action because you're terrified of all the feelings that will erupt. Your feelings, your families' feelings, etc. But mostly you are probably terrified of your OWN feelings.

You can't think your way out of this box. You're going to have to feel your way through it in a way that you may never have before.

In a perfect world, we would all find that balance between thinking and feeling. You need to step out of the thinking a bit long enough to take action and risk the intensity of the feelings you seem to be so desperate to avoid.

yes, I was going to say that earlier today. I am a software engineer. So yes, I try to do things in a "logical" fashion, in other words, I'm anal and overthink things. I do realize that things aren't alaways "logical", especially in life, but again, it's hard to just turn that off.

And as I've mentioned I am also pretty indecisive, which I know is not very attractive as a trait in a man.

Thanks zibbles.... great post! And you pretty much got me.... the problem with me is I am very senstive and probably more in touch with my feelings than my wife (I always say if I were anymore sensitive I'd be a woman, lol), BUT then I am also an overthinker.... so yea, I'm a mess!

But what a great post, thank you!

You have some perfect picture of telling your kids in person. Why not tell them TODAY so that the shock can sink in a bit before you all get together in person? If you tell them TODAY they will be more prepared to show up in person ready to help you fight this war.

Plus, it will give you some space from the intensity of their feelings which seems like something you need as a hard core thinker.

I'm glad you see your emphasis on being a thinker and acknowledge that it trips you up but I don't think just saying "this is how I am and I can't help it" is good enough.

Your life as you know it has been crushed to pieces. Is this not the cue that it's time to make real changes in YOURSELF?

Just as a sanity check, I rolled all the way back to eight (8!) days ago to the very first reply to G6. The very first reply was the blueprint for exposure, and it's been a non-stop repeat of that advice for eight (8!) days and thirty (30!) pages of posts.

As it is very difficult for me to believe that any man will sit around wringing his hands and wallowing in indecision for eight (8!) days, much less the two months (2! Months!) it's been since D-Day while his wife is having a Bang-O-Rama with her party boy, coming home for a little R&R from the No-Holds-Barred Freak Matches, having hubby wipe the sweat from her head and run her a bubble bath while she rejuvenates for her jungle romps, I have come to the conclusion that G6 is a troll who came here to see just how long he can string along the good MB crew on Dr. Harley's concept of exposure.

Well, G6, I'm guessing you're about to find out that eight (8!) days is just about the limit.

Along with the muffled sounds from the bathroom of your wife sending her T-giving wishes to Loverboy, I suspect your holiday will be filled with the electronic equivalent of cricket-chirps from the MB message boards.

Best-o-luck.

Wow, zibbles, where have you been!? I'm not sure if you are getting these from somewhere or if you use them all the time, but it doesn't matter. These are great posts and really inspirational! I do agree that I need big changes and I do agree that just saying it's who I am isn't good enough. I wasn't trying to do that but I realize it came out that way. I was just saying it's how I've always been but your post is right on.... maybe it's time to stop being who I've always been!

One of the gifts of this board is not just the support and help executing the plans, it's the wake up call we get about our own behavior/choices/approach to the problem etc.

We can't see ourselves as clearly as others can, especially in these very charged circumstances. That's why people are harping on your hesitation. You might not see it as hesitation but as an attempt to do this "right" be WE see the hesitation and we have to point it out to WAKE YOU UP.

Your hesitation has let this affair linger on for many months. You mention that you're sensitive. In other words, you don't want to make waves because the emotional intensity that's going to happen if you do will blow you out.

Get over this fear NOW. How many times have you avoided conflict at your own and your families' expense? Decide to stop TODAY.

This may be the gift in this terrible tragedy for you. No matter what happens with your marriage, you can start TODAY to make changes in you that will lead to a better life for yourself and everyone connected to you.

STAND UP FOR YOUR FAMILY, YOUR LIFE AND YOUR DIGNITY TODAY.

Thanks! And I realize that even when folks here are getting on me about hesitating etc that it's all meant well. Some are effective and some just discourage me, however I'm sure all are sent with the best intentions.

I don't like sitting on the sidelines while this is happening! I am losing respect for myself each day! BUT that doesn't make it any easier to do this.... well, actually it does, but it's still difficult to do this with my kids over the phone.

Giraffe6

Just do it. You're killing yourself with the thinking.

As my wise, younger brother likes to say, "sometimes being smart is a huge liability".

Expose to your children first maybe that will be enough to jolt your wife back into reality you need their help, they can text her, email her, call her from where they are.........the sooner the better, believe the news will be awful no matter when it actually happens, in an email, phone or in person.....
It will hurt no matter what, tell them you need their help to keep your family in tact. they will help..........
I know it was the part I dreaded as well but it was a relief for me to have everything in the open and all that was left was honesty.........
you need to get to that.

What difference does it make whether you do it in person or over the phone? It really makes no difference.

Thanks for the post.... I don't agree with this one. Maybe for some people it doesn't matter, but for my kids it matters. At least that's the case with me. I have thought about telling them over the phone today because I do like the idea of exposing before Thanksgiving. But I am just not comofortable doing this over the phone. I will tell the OM ex and my FIL over the phone but I want to talk with my kids face to face to give them this news. Sorry, it's not a stall tactic, it's what I'm comfortable with. But I appreciate your opinion.

G6, Let's play this out. So, you expose to your boys on Thanksgiving or the night before.

Some predictions:

You tell them, they are upset, and at least one of them begs you not to expose to anyone else (because you will have told them that THIS website �told� you to do so versus owning the decision). You will come back here and tell us that you are reconsidering full exposure because you don't want to further upset your boys. And, you will tell us that you appreciate the advice, but it isn't right for �everyone�. And, that you are still considering exposing, but that you need to think about it more out of respect for your boys, and didn't want to �waste� valuable time with them exposing, and ruining the holiday. And, you don't want them to hate their mother.

But, let's say I am wrong. On Thanksgiving, you decide to expose. Exactly who are you exposing to? I see 2 people. Do you have the Facebook list of targets saved in a Word document? Do you have the actual FB message drafted and saved, ready to cut/copy? Have you practiced/scripted the phone exposure? Doubt this.

But, let's say I am wrong. When you expose to this already compiled list, pre-defined group of people that can possibly have influence on your WW, what is your response going to be when you get replies that �this should be kept private�, etc.? Got your response ready? Doubt this.

But, let's say I'm wrong. After 30 minutes of full exposure is done, when WW blows up your phone with every evil-spewing thing you can imagine to you, your boys, and others do you have your response ready? Doubt this.

Your second post here could be today's latest post. Saving this marriage is going to take incredible STRENGTH, WORK and TIME. I wish that you had it in you. I really do. If you could simply distinguish the difference between doing something "to" your family versus "for" your family, ... ?

Lastly, think about the example you are setting for FOUR young BOYS.

The point is not to make you feel comfortable, though, but to take steps to inform your sons of the problem and conduct an effective, meaningful exposure. That can be done over the phone. No one is EVER "comfortable" exposing an affair so that is a ridiculous standard to apply. If you will only do things that make you feel "comfortable" then you are doomed from the start.

You won't feel "comfortable" doing it in person either. As I said previously, it is more important to your marriage to have this exposure take place BEFORE Thanksgiving than after.

When an exposure is delayed for a silly reason such as this, it is an obvious delay tactic.

Betrayed spouses routinely expose affairs to the other betrayed spouse over the phone or via email and that is a much more traumatic exposure that what you will be doing with your sons. While they will be upset, it is NOTHING compared to the utter devastation experienced by a spouse. Your boys are mostly grown and they certainly don't need their daddy there to hold their hands when they receive upsetting news. Hearing the news over the phone from you gives them a chance to compose themselves, which I am sure they will appreciate.

Even so, there is no justification for delaying the very opportune timing of this exposure. Your sons will benefit MORE from their mother having to face the music on Thanksgiving than from hearing it from you in person.

I will add that this is my last post on this thread. I can tell when someone is not serious about saving their marriage and this is one of those cases. We have so many people on this forum who are serious and really need our help.

Sad, but true.

No getting through.

My last try. I literally sent a single email to everyone. I even apologized for sending in email, saying I would have been tied up for HOURS on the phone.

Trust me, been there. No one will care that you emailed. You can do this in ten minutes. .

What they will care about, and what you should care about is your wifes behaviour. End of discussion. No sugar coating needed.

Good luck sir. This fights already over unless you do this.

Alright, let me preface this by saying I'm a newbie here. My words carry no weight and no water whatsoever.

That being said, if I had the resources of this community back then, I may have been able to save what I have now lost. Not blaming myself for her actions, but constantly blame myself for my inaction to save what I had, and destroy what was killing it. To this day, I still regret not doing EVERYTHING I could to save this. I simply didn't know how or what to do!

Since I have found this place (just recently BTW), I realize all I did wrong during my marriage, and most certainly what I DIDN'T do to recover it. I became the weak little "please, I'm so sorry!!What can I do to make things right?" Sound familiar????

Do what I didn't do..at least at that time anyway. Stand up, be strong, and, most of all fight for what you ultimately want.

Don't be a pansy, or a wuss, or what ever other deprecating names I can come up with.

Grow a pair and take CONTROL. Your future is in your hands right now. This is your one chance to get it back.

In other words.......

GO NUCLEAR NOW

Your call

WB, I'm with you, buddy. I was just like that as well and all it did was get me divorced.

That may have been the eventual outcome, but it should have come about on MY terms, not the railroad I was forced to ride.

I too ignored the advice given on this board and I have $55k in legal bills to show for it that I'm still paying off.

So, G6, you're getting advice from those who exposed and saved, exposed and didn't save, and those that didn't do anything right.

The one common bond in all of those different posters (besided 20/20 hindsight) is that immediate exposure is the way to go.

I have 3 kids. I see no need to sit them down face to face to give them bad news.

You have adult children. Treat them like adults.

Your marriage has a tumor G6. Right now it's localized and can be easily excised with surgery. Every day that you delay surgery gives the tumor another day to get bigger and spread. If you delay too long, it will become inoperable and your prognosis will become terminal. Your marriage will die a certain death when it could have been easily cured with surgery (exposure) and follow up chemo (the MB program). Fade to black, R.I.P., all because you are afraid of a little post-op discomfort. Easier to just let it die? Believe me, divorce is a LOT more painful, trust me, I KNOW.

It's an uncomfortable process G6, something that no one SHOULD have to go through but often DO. Just gotta muster up the gumption and overcome your fear.

If not, I'll be advising you on the Divorce Board - wonder if you listen to me there?

11 pages of inaction.

Giraffe you are losing valuable sources of advice. Mel has already bailed and she is the most experienced person on here. I too dont have time to advise someone who is hesitant, because hesitation will not get the the job done.

yes it is difficult
uncomfortable
unpleasant
unpredicatable.

but we all did it.

I think I must make this my last post too.

G6, read GJM's thread. You guys were in parallel up until a few days ago. He, like you, was scared. He finally did what needed to be done. Look at where he is now.

Wow it's only been a few days? Seems like an eternity ago. It still hurts, but it's a step forward and it hurts just a little bit less. There is some relief. I doubt it would hurt as much with adult children for me. I think that was my biggest problem; thinking about how young they were and not having both parents. It's definitely made my bond with them stronger though. You can do it man!

I'm not sure I could forgive if my kids were grown. I'd very strongly consider D if the kids were out of the house.

I don't think I could ever deal with this situation ever again.

So, how did your kids take it?

I'm wondering the same.

You told them, didn't you?

No.... I didn't tell them.... I guess I failed. You were all right.... I couldn't do it.... you can all give me a big I told you so if it makes you feel better. I struggled with it all weekend. I talked with my WW on Thursday night and it was a good talk but I knew the A wasn't going to end no matter what she said. I thought about telling the boys Friday and then again on Saturday but didn't do it! Now I am faced with either telling them over the phone which I didn't want to do OR waiting until Christmas.... and I DON'T want to drag this out another month. Anyway, just wanted to update you.... I won't bother you guys anymore.... I guess I'm just a doormat. Like I said, feel free to throw your "I told you so's"

G6

Giraffe,

It's not so much that anyone here wants to say I told you so. It's more like someone keeps telling you there is a wasp in your fist and to please crush it so it will stop stinging you.

Your kids need to know why their world is falling apart.

God Bless
Gamma

You're human...your natural instincts tell you to protect your children. These people have given you tools to help you because it has helped them. There are no guarantees, but if you don't take action, you will definitely destroy what's left of your self. If I can tell an 8, 11, 13 year old what's going on, you can definitely tell older children. They need to know the truth. You're protecting your WW in the process and enabling her A. The pain doesn't go away, but it reduces a little. Good luck to you.

That wasn't our goal. Our goal was to encourage you to use the tools that will be the most beneficial for saving your marriage. You chose not to. That's up to you.

You're the one who has to live your life, Giraffe. Not us. While it's frustrating to watch an avoidable trainwreck, it doesn't make anyone want to gloat.

You are not serious about ending the affair. You are very serious about giving your wayward wife a soft landing zone for her affair. That is contrary to what we know works in killing affairs.

Good luck with that, though.

Quote

Like I said, feel free to throw your "I told you so's"

Sorry, we don't get any sense of satisfaction at all, G6, quite the opposite in fact. We can see the almost inevitable result and are trying our best to, paraphrasing Gunny Foley in Officer and a Gentleman, use all means, both fair and unfair, to get you to to take some action.

You're right! I appreciate the posts. I did expect plenty of harsh comments, so thank you for not doing that. I am not happy with myself, so anything you guys would say is probably not worse than how I already feel. I know you are all trying to advise me and thank you again for not gloating. I am not sure why I didn't do it. Just didn't have the backbone I guess. I DO want to end the affair! I am just one of these WH that "thinks" he knows his wife, and that I can talk to her, etc etc. haha, I know, what a joke, right? I am beating myself up plenty, trust me. I am losing respect for myself each day!

Sad about this update, Giraffe. It's not too late to get things moving here but every day that passes, you are losing ground.

What are you going to say to your sons when the divorce comes? Or are you just planning to live with your wife's affair?

Thanks GJM! It sounds like you were in a similar situation as me. And I have to think it was even harder for you since your kids are younger. I know it was tough, thanks for the post and for sharing your story. It helps me to realize what I should have done this past weekend! Now, I have to get the stones to do this over the phone rather than talking myself into waiting until Christmas.

Giraffe6

You are NOT the bad guy for telling the truth. If I were a child in this sitch I WOULD WANT TO KNOW!!

Your wife is out of her mind right now. You cannot expect her to reason with you. She is an addict and needs an intervention. Please pick up the phone today!!

We can help you by encouraging you to rip the bandaid off NOW, deal with the pain NOW, rather than waiting until its worse.

So, I suggest you get going and do it NOW, okay?

Still here to help you, friend.

You are SO right zibbles! I know it, but what I don't know is why I can't just do it! I know I have to end this affair so why in the world so I think I can "talk" or reason with my WW?!?!?!?

The way you get the stones is by stopping the talking and starting to DO it. Get off your rear and ACT.

We can help you by pointing out that you are TALKING and not ACTING.

I suggest you read some other threads around here and get an idea what has worked and not worked for people. Quit talking so much. ACT.

Thanks markos! I wasn't sure if I would still have any support here after failing to take action this weekend. I almost didn't even log on.

You're desperate to believe she's still in there somewhere and that she loves you and your sons enough to stop on her own.

SHE CAN'T. She needs your help now, like never before.

Perhaps you also wanted to have one last amazing holiday just in case this thing blows up and you end up divorced. We know your struggle but the answer is action.

Do it now to help relieve the self loathing that's building up in you. Do it for your WW, your kids and YOU. It's hard but not as hard as it seems when you THINK about it.

Psst - hey, Giraffe? WW isn't your wife. She's in there, somewhere, way under all that fog and entitlement. But she is no longer in communication with the non-wayward world. Exposure is your best bet for dragging her out of all of that.

G6,

I�m sad to see this happened and really wish you could just do the Nike thing. Just do it.

It�s really a matter of just doing it.

G6, I don�t know how else we can communicate this to you: there is no chance you can save your marriage so long as the affair is ongoing and the affair will never end unless it is exposed.

The greatest threat to the affair is you. All you have to do is act. What would you do if your wife was drowning? Would you stand aside and hoped she pulled herself out? Would you dive in and help her?

This is basically you shouting to your kids that your wife is drowning. Once you�re done telling your kids that your wife is in trouble, you dive in to save her. Some of your sons may dive in after you.

Find a way to detach yourself from yourself. Become a different personality in your mind. Emulate James Bond. Emulate Bruce Lee. Emulate whomever you need to emulate in order to be an actor playing a part and getting this done.

Do it now. Right after you�re done reading this post, logoff, pick up your phone and call your oldest son. Tell him. If you don�t have the guts to tell the rest, then ask him to do it for you.

But this must be done. Your marriage is doomed otherwise.

This is like telling the old man who lived in the shack by the mouth of Mt. St. Helens that he needs to get out since the mountain is about to explode around him. We want to save your life. But we can�t move you out. We can�t make you save yourself.

This will end in disaster unless you do something.

Just do it.

Please. We�re rooting for you, but we can�t do it for you.

Giraffe,
Call your kids, tell them you wanted to tell them but didn't/couldn't. Let them know you love them and didn't want to hurt them but you need them to know the whole story so they know what is happening. Let them decide what to do or say to their mom. Be ready to expose to the rest of your list right after telling your kids. You know this will change things. You don't like what is going on now but are afraid of how it will change if you expose. If you look at it as the best chance of breaking up the affair and saving your family you will wonder why you waited so long.

Giraffe6, now that you've spent the holiday weekend with your boys and didn't tell, I imagine when you DO tell them they're going to connect the dots... and be relieved.

I assure you, that even if you didn't tell them this weekend, they KNOW. They KNOW something is not right with mom and dad.

You're not protecting your WW or your boys by allowing this secret to fester.

Please call your children and let them know.

P.S. I sincerely hope that your WW didn't take them aside privately and pave the way for her to leave the marriage with complaints about you.

I was scared to my boys were 20 and 22 at the time, but I did it. I was able to help them as well as they helped me, they were adults..........It was actually a relief for me to not have to keep it in any longer..........
I called mine at school, over the phone.......not the way I would have like but I did not want them to hear from anyone esle but me and their father wasn't about to tell them.........I was the only parent worried about them at this point..........
We grew closer as we stayed in contact, they pretty much ignored their Dad, it was heartbreaking for me to hear my husband say can you ask them this or that.
It weighed heavily on my WH at what his boys now thought of him, reality Giraffe6.
Please consider telling your boys and letting them help you.......
Show them what forgiveness is about and accountability and honesty........
I only knew for probably a week before I told them and it was killing me I can't imagine holding in this kind of lie.........
Let the chips fall where they may, just be ready and willing to pick them up and put them back together again........
jessi

G-man....

Both of my son's thanked me for telling them the truth. My youngest KNEW his mom was having an A, but didn't think he could tell me because what if he was wrong?

A good many pages ago, I seem to remember one of your kids asking if their mom was having an A (if I've mixed up your story with someone else, ignore this part). How do you think your kids will feel when they find out that, in addition to their mother doing what she's doing, their dad wasn't honest with them either?

No one is beating you up, we WANT to see your marriage healed. And this is probably one of the biggest things that might possibly save your marriage. If it doesn't, then what have you lost? Your wife is gone now anyway, so why not try?

you are right! I have thought/hoped she would come around. But I know better.... she DID leave me, and then she DID come back, but couldn't end the affair then, so I have to realize she can't do this on her own! And maybe I did put it off because of the holiday but I don't know.... I liked that everyone was telling me that holidays are a great time to do this and I have to say I agree. But then again, I have wondered what made me NOT do it this past weekend.

Thank you!

G6

It is sort of like, the tale "The Emperor Has No Clothes" by Hans Christian Andersen.
Every one, kids included, already know things are askew and wonky and something is wrong. Something.

Once you tell them what is happening, yes, they will be upset due to the cruelty of their mom's actions but they will also feel vindicated within that OH, THAT is what was happening that they felt.

I had an awesome therapist who use to tell me, "The why you do something isn't as important as the fact that you need to just stop doing it!"

In other words, why you didn't tell your sons isn't as important as the fact that you just need to tell them.

Why I'm fat isn't as important as just tackling the problem and fixing the behaviors that make me fat. I eat too much and don't exercise enough.

Why you avoid conflict doesn't matter. You have a crisis on your hands.

Your sons are completely clued in that not all is right and I'm willing to bet my left arm that they already suspect that she's having an affair. Kids tend to clue in long before the BS does.

There is not a lot we can do to help unless you get this done.

I am not saying this to be smart or ugly, but I am more concerned now that you will expose then cower, apologize and roll over when the reaction comes.

I don't really know how to advise you. I think your kids should know, just out of decency.

As for your marriage, good luck. You gotta change.

all so true.... The kids probably are very aware that something isn't right, I mean they know she left and came back but things still are not "right"

I am avoiding conflict and I have a crisis on my hands but I DO need to do this, and that was a great quote about why isn't as important as just doing it.

And I am concerned about how I will react to her reaction.... I can't cower down and apoligize, that would defeat what I finally got the courage to do.

Thanks to all of you!!!!!!

Giraffe6

It's been said before, but you need to keep this in mind.

Exposure will put a lot of pressure on to end the affair. Her secret utopia will look pretty ugly in the light.

This is what you need to keep in mind. Her returning to the marriage depends a lot on what you do. She has to respect you first and foremost.

I say this out of concern and honesty. I think if I had acted as you have and especially if I kept up anything approaching this behavior, my ex-wife would have spit in my face.

I think you have a lot of work to do. But do it, for your own well being.

And I am concerned about how I will react to her reaction...

Well, this is something we CAN help you prepare for. Waywards collectively have a distressingly limited number of responses.

She will go bat-sh!+ crazy. She will probably scream, call you every name in the book, and hit you with the proto-typical "Well, now our marriage IS over!" crap. She might (and given the over-entitled...lady...your WW has been described to be), probably WILL become physically abusive.

Knowing all this G6, you cannot realistically tell us you would be worried about your reaction, because you can REHEARSE IT NOW! Here is your only line to anything she says, "I did what I thought was best to protect and inform out children." You only reaction to her physical confrontations will be to back away, and urge her to control herself. If she wants to leave, you let her.

Get yourself armed with a mini-audio recorder, and do the (good) deed, amigo.

Giraffe, My thought is just expose and if you are worried about how you will respond when she comes to you.... just make yourself unavailable for a while. When my wife and I were apart and I didn't feel talking would be helpful I would not answer phone or not be home. I waited until she settled down or I was in better mood.

Nike--- "Just do it"

I did this right before xmas. And we still had xmas.

You can do this. No one will care about the date.

G6, clearly you are an enabler. You are enabling your WW's affair, you are enabling your own life to be a living hell, you are enabling the fantasy you have about your life but what is long gone because this is a lie. You are enabling your future which is going to be miserable if you continue this way.



And I'm starting to think you like it. You like your life the way it is.

G6, if you really need to, then call your oldest, tell him, and then ask him to spread the word to the other kids.

I don't think it is the best approach, but at this point I think anything is better than nothing.

Right now your wife is drowning and you're just watching and hoping she pulls herself out of it.

Not going to happen.

We can't be courageous for you.

You know why you didn't do it. It is because you made a choice NOT TO DO IT. You have to make a choice to do it and then do it. It's very simple.

I get the sense that you are waiting until you FEEL like it, and that will never happen. No one ever "feels" like doing this. It is a tough thing. No magic feeling is going to attack you against your will. Courage is a choice, not something that some people have and others don't. Everyone is afraid. Some people choose to allow their fear to control them and some people choose to be in control of their fear.

You have to make a decision to do it and then do it. Honestly, I shouldn't have to explain this to a 45 year old grown man.

If you do get to that point, your lb may be so drained that you don�t care about her reaction. If that�s the case, then it really is over because you won�t care at that point if it is saved or not. If you reach the point of emotional detachment, then the marriage is very likely to fail. The objective of MB is to save the marriage when it is still salvageable IF it is still salvageable.

You�re rapidly approaching the point of her being a walk away wife and not having any hope of saving your marriage.

Do you have an internal locus of control, or external?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2555478#Post2555478

Yes, I've read it.

You are choosing victimhood.
You are avoiding responsibility.

.... under the guise of "thinking things over".

Behold, I summoned Pepperband!

Yep.

You could call this "analysis paralysis."

Or you could call it "a convenient excuse."

You could even debate about what to call it, and take your time thinking it over.

I call it "Fiddling while Rome burns."

When a new guy won't follow melody and pepper all I can say is he doesn't realize the quality of help he refuses to accept an act on.

1) Tell your kids, and everyone else of importance in your lives, then come here for the next step.

2) Keep on allowing the affair to entrench or wait for the truth to blow up in your kids faces, until you are ready to do something, then come on here for the next step.

G6,

Would you consider calling your oldest kid and simply putting out a feeler?

In other words call and say, �Son, what do you make of your mom�s behavior lately? What do you think is going on with her?�

Then see what he says. It opens the door for you as well in case your son suspects something or asks your opinion.

You can�t possibly be afraid of your son, can you?

Good morning sports fans, it is November 30th, and it�s time for our latest installment of the ongoing G6 exposure saga. This morning�s broadcast is being sponsored by Americajin, and now a word from our sponsor� Remember, two wrongs do not make a right, but three lefts do, and while you may [censored] your finger, you should never finger your�. Anyways, back to our program.

G6 as we have come to understand has a seeming aversion to the process of exposure. Our resident exposure experts have posted several times exhorting him to follow the steps but he has expressed that he cannot bring himself to do so, leading the experts to steer their flights into a holding pattern over Runway Exposure until flight G6 can get underway.

The G6 flight apparently got a tank full of low octane motivation fuel and efforts are underway by the sponsor and the rest of the ground crew to switch to high grade exposure aviation fuel that�ll have the G6 flight up and flying straight in no time at all on the first leg of his successful MB to Exposure City in the sovereign state of Plan A.

Stay tuned tomorrow folks as HelpTheLostDads sponsors our next episode!!!

I have considered that actually, and was talking to him the other day and thought about it. I wasn't sure I was ready to expose if he did ask questions etc.

I want to thank all of you for not giving up on me. I know you are frustrated. americajin, that was a great post regarding how I am handling this. And yes, it has turned into a bit of a soap opera type drama.

Not a lot more to add, but I do think it is time.... and for what it's worth I am closer now than I have been before. Thanks to all of you!! I'll keep yuou posted. I haven't been on here a lot because I feel like I am taking time form others who needs your advice and I am taking your time, but not acting.

Giraffe6

I'm not frustrated at all, G6, I am actually a pretty patient guy. I'll just wear your resistance down a little at a time.

I'm imagining myself in the position of your children, and thinking how painful it would feel to find out, and the pain of realizing my father hadn't felt I was important or adult enough to tell me. Ya know?

Truth and honesty is so precious.

Thanks americajin.... I'm sorry for making you work so hard to wear me down, that goes for all of you actually.... but it appears to be working

emilyann, thanks for your post. I do think it will be painful for them to hear this news about their Mom, but I do agree that me holding the secret from them isn't fair and could be painful as well.

quick question....

talked with my wife the other night about things. I said you know what you're doing is wrong. She usually agrees right away, but this time there was a long pause. And I said, really, you have to think about that? She said, well coming back was wrong I shouldn't have done that. But I guess she doesn't feel the affair is wrong anymore?!?!? she said well she feels the marriage has been over for 5 years and we're just married on paper. Wow, that is NOT her at all. I wonder if she really is done and I should just say get out then, or should I still expose to make her reality collide with her fantasy world.

Sorry, that was just a surprising conversation and I wanted to share. I have known my WW for 25 years, married to her for 24. I truly don't beleive she has been over the marriage for 5 years. Years 1-22 were much better than years 23-24 (while she has been having the affair). Of course it wasn't perfect, no marriage is. And yes about 4 or 5 years ago we went through a really tough time, but it wasn't so much "us" as it was problems we were facing (three deaths in the family, a cancer scare with one of our kids, put down two long time pets, I lost my job twice, and we moved several times). So, I'm just wondering if that all took a toll on both of us. Plus around the same time we were coming out of that stretch, the OM's marriage was ending, so it was kind of the "perfect storm" I just didn't see it.

Thanks, just wanted to throw that out there.

G6

yada yada yada



Why?

I would think this would make you want to expose NOW. You are seeing first hand the longer you wait the farther way she is going.....AND YOU ARE LETTING HER GO!

Whenever anyway says "my wayward wife/husband said"

I have to repress a sigh.

It doesnt matter what they say

It is ALWAYS either nonsense or a lie.

I get the feeling you are doing 'Plan Hope' giraffe. and that 'Plan Hope' means talking to your wife, listening to your wife and not doing anything to make her mad. Like exposure.

Then just hoping against hope that it will all be ok. That she will remember how you used to be.

It wont happen, without actions on your part I am afraid.

I am going to bump the 'never take the word of a wayward' thread as you need to 'get it'

+100

Keep delaying.

Why?

Do you enjoy that the OM and WW are doing IT?

I'll say this, and this is why WW answer has changed.

WW has lost respect for you because you are refusing to fight for her. You show that by not exposing.

Also they longer the affair goes on the strong the bond becomes between the affair partners.

You have lost your WW.

You claim to be upset that the OM and WW are in an affair.

You are afraid to expose because for what ever reason it boils down to the WW will get mad at you.

News flash.
Extra extra.
Read all about it.
BH is afraid to upset the affair apple cart because he fears WW will retaliate.
This reporter has to ask what can the WW do worse to retaliate?
How can she top doing IT with the OM for the umpteeth if not umphundredth time?
BH tell us.
Enquiring minds want to know.

BH doesn't have an answer. But agrees that doing nothing and not fighting is making her loose respect. I was thinking of talking with OM tonight with my WW with me. Would that be a good idea or no? I'm sure you're going to say no, just expose. I do like the thought of exposure. I'll tell you, just to be open about it. What makes me a little leary is it seems to be the ONLY answer/option here. I'm not saying I'm against it and certainly not trying to get everyone yelling at me Just askinga question.

No.

Its a good question actually.

The MB programme is very prescriptive. One part leads to the other like dominoes. Therefore if you skip one dominoe the next one wont work

It isnt like a pick your own plan.

The reason for this is that the nature of affairs is very similar. The waywards all act in a very similar way - like addicts. And it takes a number of stages to break the addiction. Exposure is usually the first step. Just as an intervention or saying 'I am an alcoholic' is the first step in AA.

Understand?

You still think you can talk OM or WW out of their adultery.

You~~~> <~~~ This idea

Has it worked so far?

Insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting (or , in your case hoping) for different results.

You havent exposed yet G6?? .... why not? ... what are you worried about? By not exposing .. you are not only disrespecting your wife and your marriage but your children as well. What will your children think when they find out that you didnt tell them after you knew for so long .. You are lieing to them and to everyone else by not exposing. Lieing by omission. You are feeding their fantasy and bending over and taking it willingly.

Your marriage CAN and most likely WILL survive her blow up when she finds out you exposed .. just let it roll off your back and do not respond to her when she does .. however it CAN NOT .. I repeat CAN NOT survive if you continue to allow your wife and OM to do whatever it is they are doing behind your back. Stand up! Put your Foot Down! Do you let your children get away with misbehaving if they get mad at you? if not .. then what makes you wife any different. She will get over it and later when her emotions calm down, will respect you for being THE MAN.

Please sir .. if you value your marriage and your wife and children .. get the exposure done ASAP. Do not delay!

You seem to think you are dealing with reasonable people! People who give a darn what you want or have to say.

They will gang up on you and gaslight you.

Plus giving your wife permission to be around the OM - even with you there - is like saying he is a person who deserves any of your time.

He is persona non grata. He needs to get dumped with an NC letter. He needs his whole family and set of friends to hear about the affair. He doesnt need a chat.

Can we just get on with exposre?

sorry

Hey i tried to Quote that! I LOLED!

It was funny, but crude. (and TRUE !)

I'm sorry also.

I wish I had seen that post.

I disappointed that you got scared.

I'm too tired.

I can't rant no more.

Venting vs ranting ???