So here I go.. I don't know where to start. I screwed, majorly bad. I did so well, then it all went to pot. I can only blame myself which is hard for me to do since I hate to screw up ANYTHING!! When I try to rationalize what I did I can come up so many things that I was feeling. Before we bought the house I was feeling a distance between senninpa before. I would see something in his behavior that made me think "well that is a unlike him" I would disregard it then something else would come up. Repeatedly, so then I thought he is having a relations with someone else. (still have that thought). No this is no excuse for my actions just mentioning what I felt.
Yeah I had four affairs ten years ago. They were more like a one might stand. I was young, dumb, stressed. there were no excuses for my actions. I have told my husband all about them answered all of his questions.
The the stress of buying a house, and having nothing mundane, with chaos, I think I wanted something familiar and I leaned on the wrong friend. Instead of a close female friend I ended up going for my husband's friend as if he was a life preserver in the midst of it all.
His wife was suppose to be my best friend, but her and I were already growing apart for some time. Our families had been friends for something like eight years. I have never had feelings for the OM in those years, since they were like family. So I guess in the midst of my stress I clung to the wrong familiarity that I was use to. I got to close then it was to late.
Senninpa deserves much better, he is a great guy and I know he is hurting something fierce right now. It hurts me to see him hurt. I told him that I would do a lie detector test( I would be lying to say that it scares to death)Not because I am with holding more lies but the unknown. I truly feel that I have told him everything. Yes I used what you call the "trickle effect" but not for the reasons you think. I have to be ready(not to make more lies) but ready to confront myself , my wrong doings, my shame, my guilt!
Hi .... Welcome to Marriage Builders We're glad you could make it.
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
So here I go.. I don't know where to start. I screwed, majorly bad. I did so well, then it all went to pot. I can only blame myself which is hard for me to do since I hate to screw up ANYTHING!! When I try to rationalize what I did I can come up so many things that I was feeling. Before we bought the house I was feeling a distance between senninpa before. I would see something in his behavior that made me think "well that is a unlike him" I would disregard it then something else would come up. Repeatedly, so then I thought he is having a relations with someone else. (still have that thought). No this is no excuse for my actions just mentioning what I felt.
Yeah I had four affairs ten years ago. They were more like a one might stand. I was young, dumb, stressed. there were no excuses for my actions. I have told my husband all about them answered all of his questions.
The the stress of buying a house, and having nothing mundane, with chaos, I think I wanted something familiar and I leaned on the wrong friend. Instead of a close female friend I ended up going for my husband's friend as if he was a life preserver in the midst of it all.
His wife was suppose to be my best friend, but her and I were already growing apart for some time. Our families had been friends for something like eight years. I have never had feelings for the OM in those years, since they were like family. So I guess in the midst of my stress I clung to the wrong familiarity that I was use to. I got to close then it was to late.
Senninpa deserves much better, he is a great guy and I know he is hurting something fierce right now. It hurts me to see him hurt. I told him that I would do a lie detector test( I would be lying to say that it scares to death)Not because I am with holding more lies but the unknown. I truly feel that I have told him everything. Yes I used what you call the "trickle effect" but not for the reasons you think. I have to be ready(not to make more lies) but ready to confront myself , my wrong doings, my shame, my guilt!
I'll match your stress and double it. These past 2 years have been unbelievably stressful for me. Yet, somehow, I managed to maintain my boundaries with men who are not my husband.
Question: I maintained my marriage boundaries under stressful times, and you (more than once) failed to. What might be the difference between you and I? What might be the difference between our coping skills?
Really reflect on this question before you compose your response.
I am 100% certain that you will experience more stress in your life. What happens then? How will you cope? What are your resources? Are you safe for your husband only when life is not too difficult?
I can only blame myself which is hard for me to do since I hate to screw up ANYTHING!!
This caught my eye. This was important enough for you to write. I see what you have written as a !!! You probably wrote the above not realizing that it was not something complimentary about yourself.
It's always interesting to me when the word "blame" is used. Why use that word? It's a child's vocabulary.
Take responsibility for your screw ups. When you take responsibility, you are far more likely to learn the lesson than when you "take blame".
Taking blame is a person looking for punishment, or retribution. Taking responsibility is a person looking for solutions and lessons.
Everyone screws up sometime. The fact that you screwed up the exact same way more than once means you never learned the lesson. Instead, you took the blame.
The the stress of buying a house, and having nothing mundane, with chaos, I think I wanted something familiar and I leaned on the wrong friend. Instead of a close female friend I ended up going for my husband's friend as if he was a life preserver in the midst of it all.
Funny, whenever I have bought a new house and moved, I didn't have time to have an affair. I was too busy with stress and the problems of moving to even think of it. How did you find the time and energy to have an affair with your husbands best friend in your husbands own home?
You do realize that this time you got a buy one, get three free for your efforts, right? That is some major talent. You destroyed your marriage, your husband's career and his best friendship.
What will your husband and children lose the next time you feel stress?
Yes I used what you call the "trickle effect" but not for the reasons you think.
Stop being coy. It is unbecoming of an adult woman who is (supposedly) ready/willing/able to take responsibility for her actions and learn the lessons.
Just an aside: It's trickle truth, not trickle effect.
1. What do you assume are the reasons 'we' think you gave your BH 'trickle truth'? 2. What do you claim are your legitimate reasons for 'trickle truth'?
I told him that I would do a lie detector test( I would be lying to say that it scares to death)Not because I am with holding more lies but the unknown. I truly feel that I have told him everything.
A person who has had FIVE affairs and been through Marriage Builders is not ignorant of the effect on her husband. She doesn't have affairs accidentally or becuase of "stress" but because she doesn't care.
She doesn't care.
You don't care what it does to your husband and your children. Lets just get honest about that.
Senninpa deserves much better, he is a great guy and I know he is hurting something fierce right now.
And now, this.
You are correct. Senninpa has always deserved a faithful wife. Not a serial adulteress. Your husband has the right to divorce you. But, should he? In fact, if I were advising Senninpa, I would tell him that he is not safe if he remains married to you.
You are a woman who lacks boundaries. You cannot cope with average life stress. You look to blame, rather than to learn.
Prove me wrong! Surviving an Affair <~~~ buy this book. Your own copy. Buy the SAA book and read it with a highlighter. Post to the forum (on THIS thread) as you are reading SAA, and tell us what you are learning. That would be your best hope at saving your marriage.
If you fail to buy SAA, and fail to read it and post about your reading .... You will be a future adulteress when life throws you a curve ball.
SPW, you and your BH have just been brought to an ER after an MVA in which you were the driver; BH is severely, critically, injured. As the folks here are starting lines, taking vitals and providing life-support, you're distracting everyone with your opinions that the tires were bald, the road was poorly graded, and someone should have swept the wet leaves off the surface. NONE OF THAT MATTERS! YOU WERE THE DRIVER!
Nothing will interfere with the experts here getting to the root of your BH's emotional injuries more surely than being cadged into dealing with your excuses, justifications, and fantasies. (And for the love of God, could you have picked on a factor more rational than "stress"? How does leading a double life, and lying to two families, REDUCE stress anywhere?)
Here is what you should be doing, right now. ASK what you can do to to comfort SP, then SHUT UP and LISTEN, only writing to get clarification or expansion on something you're not immediately clear on. BTW: ML and PB are two of the more...balanced...posters here. Keeping up your ineffective "Yeah, but...." strategy will shake some of the really severe BSs out of their slumber! Even I have been known to become "peckish"!
Senninpa's wife ... You should listen to the vet posters here. Some of what they say may sound like attacks but they are not. They are 2x4s to wake you up. Stick with it ... read and post. This message board will guide you to recovery IF and i say IF you follow the narrow path they will lay out for you.
YOU CAN DO THIS. But its going to be a tough go for a while.
When I try to rationalize what I did I can come up so many things that I was feeling.
Lets make this simple.
You were willing to hurt your husband and your children to get what you wanted.
Also, you were willing to compromise your virtue to get what your wanted.
Additionally, you were willing to hurt your friends (OM & OMW) and their children .... to get what you wanted.
How did you justify hurting these children? Yours and theirs?
You put empathy away where you could not see/feel it. You had to. You had to remove consideration of other people's feelings, and their feelings became nothing more than obstacles in your way.
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things that I was feeling
Yes. Your feelings were of paramount importance. Far above the feelings of others.
You are not unique. You are wayward. That's what waywards do.
Yeah I had four affairs ten years ago. They were more like a one might stand. I was young, dumb, stressed.
What's the big deal? It's not like I meant my marriage vows. So I banged a couple dudes... Well four... No make that five. To be honest, in all this stress, I may have forgotten a few. Gosh, it's just SO HARD!
I know you, I mean I was a serial, too. I know your "language".
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I did so well, then it all went to pot
It didn't go itself, you ruined it. You DECIDED it was OKAY to do it. And then YOU DID it.
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When I try to rationalize what I did I can come up so many things that I was feeling.
... which is followed mostly by "other people's faults". There is no point in making up those excuses, they won't make you look less WW as you already are. You have to accept the fact that you have NO boundaries around the opposite sex, plus you have no idea of what Extraordinary Precautions are. You may have been here 10 yrs ago but I do not see this has been very helpful nor have you implemented Dr Harley's Programme.
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Yeah I had four affairs ten years ago. They were more like a one might stand.
You don't understand (yet, I hope). Making your affairs look "more like a one night stand" is your attempt to minimize the gravity of the pain you have caused to your H and family. And there is nothing "more moral" in oral sex or "more oral" sex as you have been confessing to your H. I know the situation, but more important: you know it, too. I tried to play this game with my H, too, but I failed miserably and caused the the false recovery which is the guaranteed next phase you are heading when you do not tell him the truth. But the truth must come out with all the ugliness, only then you can FEEL the necessary pain to start the work on your non-adulterous life, I see no other way.
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His wife was suppose to be my best friend, but her and I were already growing apart for some time.
What does this have to do with anything?
Now, what are you going to do about all this? How you are going to help your H to overcome this pain, how you will help your kids? What is your PLAN?
It would be nice to see you continue posting and FACE the situation. Start reading MB materials like crazy, making notes and planning the next steps.
I know you, I mean I was a serial, too. I know your "language".
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I did so well, then it all went to pot
It didn't go itself, you ruined it. You DECIDED it was OKAY to do it. And then YOU DID it.
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When I try to rationalize what I did I can come up so many things that I was feeling.
... which is followed mostly by "other people's faults". There is no point in making up those excuses, they won't make you look less WW as you already are. You have to accept the fact that you have NO boundaries around the opposite sex, plus you have no idea of what Extraordinary Precautions are. You may have been here 10 yrs ago but I do not see this has been very helpful nor have you implemented Dr Harley's Programme.
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Yeah I had four affairs ten years ago. They were more like a one might stand.
You don't understand (yet, I hope). Making your affairs look "more like a one night stand" is your attempt to minimize the gravity of the pain you have caused to your H and family. And there is nothing "more moral" in oral sex or "more oral" sex as you have been confessing to your H. I know the situation, but more important: you know it, too. I tried to play this game with my H, too, but I failed miserably and caused the the false recovery which is the guaranteed next phase you are heading when you do not tell him the truth. But the truth must come out with all the ugliness, only then you can FEEL the necessary pain to start the work on your non-adulterous life, I see no other way.
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His wife was suppose to be my best friend, but her and I were already growing apart for some time.
What does this have to do with anything?
Now, what are you going to do about all this? How you are going to help your H to overcome this pain, how you will help your kids? What is your PLAN?
It would be nice to see you continue posting and FACE the situation. Start reading MB materials like crazy, making notes and planning the next steps.
Well thanks everyone for your input. I see that you all feel that we shouldn't work on Marriage cause apparently I am a hopeless case who cares about nothing. So I guess I should start packing since he would be better off. This what I am getting from your advice. So I guess a person who has no boundaries is a monster. So should I pack now or after Christmas??? I really wanted to work on our marriage and be a good parent but apparently I am not capable of ever being a decent person.
Well thanks everyone for your input. I see that you all feel that we shouldn't work on Marriage cause apparently I am a hopeless case who cares about nothing. So I guess I should start packing since he would be better off. This what I am getting from your advice. So I guess a person who has no boundaries is a monster. So should I pack now or after Christmas??? I really wanted to work on our marriage and be a good parent but apparently I am not capable of ever being a decent person.
Well thanks everyone for your input. I see that you all feel that we shouldn't work on Marriage cause apparently I am a hopeless case who cares about nothing. So I guess I should start packing since he would be better off. This what I am getting from your advice. So I guess a person who has no boundaries is a monster. So should I pack now or after Christmas??? I really wanted to work on our marriage and be a good parent but apparently I am not capable of ever being a decent person.
Well thanks everyone for your input. I see that you all feel that we shouldn't work on Marriage cause apparently I am a hopeless case who cares about nothing. So I guess I should start packing since he would be better off. This what I am getting from your advice. So I guess a person who has no boundaries is a monster. So should I pack now or after Christmas??? I really wanted to work on our marriage and be a good parent but apparently I am not capable of ever being a decent person.
Who is this?
That be a drama queen, Pep... Get out your hankie...
Well thanks everyone for your input. I see that you all feel that we shouldn't work on Marriage cause apparently I am a hopeless case who cares about nothing. So I guess I should start packing since he would be better off. This what I am getting from your advice. So I guess a person who has no boundaries is a monster. So should I pack now or after Christmas??? I really wanted to work on our marriage and be a good parent but apparently I am not capable of ever being a decent person.
Who is this?
Let me assume this is Sennipa's WW .... who logged in using the same computer and her husband's ID (by mistake).
Quit whining. Quit feeling sorry for yourself. Start working. If you don't KNOW what to do, call for a phone counseling appointment with the Harleys. BUY the SAA book and read it with a highlighter as I previously suggested. ASK MARRIAGE BUILDERS related questions instead of "Oh, woe is me."
Let us know when you get serious, Madam. You aren't going to get too far with the pity party around here. Our pity is reserved for the dead bodies in your path.
you will get help here, but no one is going to tolerate your drama queen crap.
Do you think it's fun to see your spouse hurting everyday especially when your the cause?????? It's effing painful. Do you know what its like to tell your kids that you made a life changing decision in the wrong direction and see them look at you as if you are a disease? Do you know what its like to be WEAK. Has anyone of you ever had a weakness for something, food, shopping, alcohol, gambling, gossip???? Do you know what its like to sin and carry it around with you beating yourself up asking WHY WHY WHY???
Let us know when you get serious, Madam. You aren't going to get too far with the pity party around here. Our pity is reserved for the dead bodies in your path.
you will get help here, but no one is going to tolerate your drama queen crap.
What do you mean serious?? I have started reading "Surviving an affair". I am doing everything he asks. What do you mean when I get SERIOUS????
LOOK at the name you are using to post. You are posting using your HUSBAND's name. It's confusing.
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Do you think it's fun to see your spouse hurting everyday especially when your the cause?????? It's effing painful.
It's your responsibility to make the corrections. I don't care about your pain at the moment.
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Do you know what its like to tell your kids that you made a life changing decision in the wrong direction and see them look at you as if you are a disease?
Nope. It's your responsibility to make the corrections.
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Do you know what its like to be WEAK.
Yes.
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Has anyone of you ever had a weakness for something, food, shopping, alcohol, gambling, gossip????
Screwing another woman's (a friend's) husband? Nope. My husband knows. He screwed his friend's wife. He felt really crappy. He did not whine after he was caught. He changed.
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Do you know what its like to sin and carry it around with you beating yourself up asking WHY WHY WHY???
We told you why. YOu lack boundaries. You lack empathy. Instead of taking responsibility you look to blame.
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No I guess not, you must be perfect.
I'll get back to you on that.
Seriously, I am not perfect. I am smart. But definitely not perfect. I do live my values instead of living my whims. And, I am conscious about keeping my values current on a DAILY basis. I check myself. I check my behavior. I am acutely aware I will die some day. How do I wish to be remembered?
Let us know when you get serious, Madam. You aren't going to get too far with the pity party around here. Our pity is reserved for the dead bodies in your path.
you will get help here, but no one is going to tolerate your drama queen crap.
What do you mean serious?? I have started reading "Surviving an affair". I am doing everything he asks. What do you mean when I get SERIOUS????
Oh wow, she's reading a book! whoopee!! You deserve a medal!
Glad you could find time for reading a book in between all your pity pandering...
Seenipa, I am assuming this is seeninpa's wife. It sounds to me your looking for an excuse not to work, not to do the heavy lifting and in your earlier post almost saying you were thinking he might be having and affair to help justify what you have done.
I was a FWH and recently a BH..to me it seems your looking for any reason not to work on the marriage.
My wife would use I can't get over the past and I am sorry I am not doing it good enough for you. Your husband has been thru hell, I doubt you really have any idea though becuase until you can realize the depth of his pain and take on what you did, it will never sink in.
I know when I was the WH, I never got it and never wanted to but being the BH I can tell you MB has completly changed me. If I was a WH still, I would think the MB rules were stupid..but now I see how affair are affecting nearly everyone to some degree and all I want to do is work hard to live my life following these rules..my wife is not on board with MB yet but as far as I can tell she is working on it.
Regardless of what she does, I am better and I will make it and be better for it. Melody Lane is awesome..and she is right you will never run a WW/WH off who truly wants to work on their marriage. Good luck on recovery..if you want it prove it to your husband!
Do you know what its like to sin and carry it around with you beating yourself up asking WHY WHY WHY???
Where was all this breast-beating BEFORE you and OM got caught? Did you feel the burden of your sin while getting a toe-job under the card table? ***while your best friend (OMW) was in the room? ***
Do you think it's fun to see your spouse hurting everyday especially when your the cause?????? It's effing painful. Do you know what its like to tell your kids that you made a life changing decision in the wrong direction and see them look at you as if you are a disease? Do you know what its like to be WEAK. Has anyone of you ever had a weakness for something, food, shopping, alcohol, gambling, gossip???? Do you know what its like to sin and carry it around with you beating yourself up asking WHY WHY WHY???
No I guess not, you must be perfect.
Do you know what its like for your spouse to behave like an alley cat in heat and have FOUR affairs? ["one-night stands"] Do you know what its like for your spouse to have another affair five years later? Do you know what its like for your spouse to have another affair 10 years later? Do you know what its like for your spouse to screw your best friend? Do you know what its like for your spouse to screw your best friend in YOUR HOUSE? Do you know what its like to have to tell your boss that your CO-WORKER is having sexual relations with your wife and you might have to leave your job? Do you know what its like to have to see your wife's scummy OM at work every day? Do you know what its like to have to hear that your own mother has been screwing our family friend? In our own home? Do you know what its like to find out your "best friend" is shagging your husband?
How do I lack empathy? Because Of my actions? Other than that do you know me well enough to decide that?
Let me quote the Good Doctor........
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Love Busters
The love you and your spouse have for each other is directly affected by almost all of your behavior. This is a point that I will repeat in most of my remaining concepts and Q&A columns. Until now, I have focused attention on behavior that will meet each other's most important emotional needs. When you behave that way, you are caring for each other. But the resulting Love Bank deposits will not do your marriage much good if other behavior leads to Love Bank withdrawals. So to help you gain control over your behavior so that you can learn to avoid making Love Bank withdrawals, I will introduce you to my next basic concept, Love Busters.
Why would any of us hurt the one we promised to love and cherish?
Lack of empathy is at the core of the problem. I was struck with what we are all up against while watching a Star Trek episode. Spock had volunteered to be possessed by an alien presence so that it could communicate with Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise.
As soon as it entered Spock's body, its first reaction was, "Oh, how lonely you must all feel."
You see, in the alien world, they were all connected to each other through telepathy so that each one could feel what everyone else felt. They were all emotionally bonded to each other. But as soon as the alien possessed Spock's body, it realized that we humans are all cut off from each other emotionally. And it viewed our state as incredibly isolated and lonely.
One of the most important consequences of our emotional isolation is that we cannot feel the way we affect others. And that creates the temptation to hurt others because in doing so we don't feel the pain we cause. If we were connected emotionally to others as the aliens were, we would be far less tempted to do anything thoughtless, gaining at someone else's expense. That's because in so doing, we would be hurting ourselves as well.
And that's what I always seem to be battling when I try to encourage one spouse to avoid doing anything that would hurt the other spouse. I cannot seem to trigger empathy. Each spouse complains about how thoughtless the other spouse is, without much awareness of his or her own thoughtlessness.
Lack of empathy helps makes thoughtlessness possible. Since we don't feel what other's feel, we tend to minimize the negative effects we have on others, and consider our thoughtlessness to be benign. An angry outburst is regarded by some as a creative expression. Disrespect is viewed as helping the other spouse gain proper perspective. And a demand is nothing more than encouraging a spouse to do what he or she should have done all along. None of these is seen as one spouse gaining at the other's expense, because the spouse who is inflicting the pain does not feel the pain. But whenever one spouse is the cause of the other's unhappiness, one thing's for sure -- Love Bank withdrawals are taking place.
How do I lack empathy? Because Of my actions? Other than that do you know me well enough to decide that?
Studying the wayward mind is something of a science around here. There are a LOT of things about people who go wayward that are very, very similar, typical, and repetitive. The good news is that that can be used to help YOU change many things about the way you think and act that can lead to a happier marriage for you.
But one of the things about the wayward mind is that the wayward typically thinks they are unique, special, different from the others, living through a special story that is different from anything else. It's a form of thinking highly of themselves, actually, a form of pride. The unfortunate thing about this is that it can cause them to reject the helpful advice they are given, which has helped hundreds of unfaithful spouses before them, because they believe they are different and the advice does not apply and nobody understands them. They waste their time trying to make other people understand and see that they are different; it would be more helpful for them and lead to a happier situation in life if they would adopt the advice they are given sooner, rather than later.
Do you know what its like for your spouse to behave like an alley cat in heat and have FOUR affairs? ["one-night stands"] Do you know what its like for your spouse to have another affair five years later? Do you know what its like for your spouse to have another affair 10 years later? Do you know what its like for your spouse to screw your best friend? Do you know what its like for your spouse to screw your best friend in YOUR HOUSE? Do you know what its like to have to tell your boss that your CO-WORKER is having sexual relations with your wife and you might have to leave your job? Do you know what its like to have to see your wife's scummy OM at work every day? Do you know what its like to have to hear that your own mother has been screwing our family friend? In our own home? Do you know what its like to find out your "best friend" is shagging your husband?
Yeah I know what it's like cause I am the one who inflected it... Yeah I get to hear everyday what he had to endure through the day. I see the pain in his eyes. I see the hurt look. The crushing of his heart being torn. Yeah I see what i caused.
I know you feel bad, you got caught..quit making excuses of how bad you feel..didn't feel bad while playing footsies? If you want to start to feel better own what you did and put EP in place to make your husband and family feel safe..yeah it sucks..owell..I bet your husband is hurting 10 times what you are but instead of helping him you just watching him bleed out..Start first aid/CPR!
[ Yeah I know what it's like cause I am the one who inflected it... Yeah I get to hear everyday what he had to endure through the day. I see the pain in his eyes. I see the hurt look. The crushing of his heart being torn. Yeah I see what i caused.
You saw it 15 years ago. Again 10 years ago. Yet here you are once again.
Do you think it's fun to see your spouse hurting everyday especially when your the cause?????? It's effing painful. Do you know what its like to tell your kids that you made a life changing decision in the wrong direction and see them look at you as if you are a disease? Do you know what its like to be WEAK. Has anyone of you ever had a weakness for something, food, shopping, alcohol, gambling, gossip???? Do you know what its like to sin and carry it around with you beating yourself up asking WHY WHY WHY???
No I guess not, you must be perfect.
I know all this. Why are you lamenting? With this kind of attitude you will become a chronic disease. So stop it and think it over.
What is your PLAN for making it up to your H and kids?
Like Step No 1. NO CONTACT letter to OM, let my H revise it and then send it. How do I PLAN to keep no contact for life?
[quote=senninpa] They waste their time trying to make other people understand and see that they are different; it would be more helpful for them and lead to a happier situation in life if they would adopt the advice they are given sooner, rather than later.
Seeinpaswife- Like I said..I was probably just like you with the exception of my wife recently had an affair on me. I never understood how much pain and suffering I put he thru until it happend to me. I hated me, what I did and who I was. I don't know..
Everything she said she experienced I did also..I never took the time to see it thru her eyes or feel her pain..I just wanted it to be over and swept under the rug so we could move on..
You can do this..but you have to want to do it..it's not easy and their will be up's and downs. These guys/gals are the best at sniffing out B/S but if you decide to work hard they will help you and might just change your life for the better..
Well thanks everyone for your input. I see that you all feel that we shouldn't work on Marriage cause apparently I am a hopeless case who cares about nothing.
That is not how people feel at all. They believe you should work on your marriage, and are telling you what you have to change FIRST.
But if you want to spin that into an excuse to divorce, go ahead.
I haven't had contact with OM for sometime nearly a month. I don't want any contact with OM because I want my husband and only my husband if he shall still want me.
I was praying in the midst of the affair for help cause I knew it was wrong but I couldn't stop. My husband says God will listen and show you direction but you have to help yourself. Wish I would have thought of that one sooner.
One last thing..I see you said you feel bad for everything you are putting your kids and husband thru..so instead of easing their pain you are just posting away with more excuses causing them more pain making them feel responsible when in reality they didn't want any of this..they had no choice in the matter..God..I hate that I was like this..what a @#$@#$@ I was!
So I guess a person who has no boundaries is a monster. So should I pack now or after Christmas???
You should change the fact that you have no boundaries. You should get boundaries. You can learn how to do that here.
Also, when somebody says "your problem is X," you should consider working on the problem. Trying to shame people for telling you what the problem is, is unproductive.
The problem has been identified for you. With the problem identified and you working on it, you have hope. With you doing nothing about the problem and getting upset with people for telling you what the problem is, you have no hope.
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I really wanted to work on our marriage and be a good parent
Cool. I hope you do. To do that, you'll need to take the path that has hope (identifying the problems and working on them).
You'll probably have to deal with a lot of facts about yourself that make you uncomfortable. Like the fact that you've been selfish, uncaring, thoughtless, and had terrible boundaries among men. To do that, you'll have to look those problems square in the face and admit them. It's not about fixing blame, it's about identifying the problems so that you can solve them.
It won't help you to try to get people to not tell you what the problems are. That will only help you retain the problems for another decade.
The watchward for you is CHANGE. You will need to change things. Right now you're compiling a list of things to change. Don't leave anything important off the list, okay?
One last thing..I see you said you feel bad for everything you are putting your kids and husband thru..so instead of easing their pain you are just posting away with more excuses causing them more pain making them feel responsible when in reality they didn't want any of this..they had no choice in the matter..God..I hate that I was like this..what a @#$@#$@ I was!
One last thing..I see you said you feel bad for everything you are putting your kids and husband thru..so instead of easing their pain you are just posting away with more excuses causing them more pain making them feel responsible when in reality they didn't want any of this..they had no choice in the matter..God..I hate that I was like this..what a @#$@#$@ I was!
I don't think I was ever trying to place the blame on them or anyone else for that matter. I do blame myself.
So tell me what you believe are boundaries so I can get a better idea of where i went wrong and where I can learn from without the jabs please!
I'm in the process of writing some practical suggestions for you and giving you some reading material.
But my first practical suggestion is this: quit telling people how to post. If you think somebody's post to you is inappropriate, practice just saying nothing. At this point, you need all the help you can get. You will miss valuable advice if you are talking to people trying to straighten them out instead of listening to them. Are the perfect? No. Are they too blunt? Maybe. But compare these two problems, and decide which one is more important to you, and work on that first:
* I had multiple affairs and my marriage may not survive unless I do something. * Some people on the internet are not very nice when they try to help people.
My suggestion is that you fix your marriage FIRST, and after you've gotten that steady for awhile, then you work on straightening out some of the mean posters around here. Your first priority has got to be your marriage, your husband, your family, your children. Blunt jerks on the internet needs to be a backseat priority right now. You have an emergency. Agree?
The OW in my situation had a belief that she was able to stay clear of an affair and STILL HAVE 1-1 CONTACT with my husband. After all, it was just a phone call....
Boundaries mean things that you will no longer allow yourself to get anywhere close to the edge of impropriety by taking extraordinary precautions, such as:
No 1-1 contact/conversations/thoughts of/feelings about any man other than my husband.
No romanticizing affairs, ever. Grow a complete disgust for cheater movies, books, etc.
Avoid situations where you can run into an inappropriate relationship, even a ride in the elevator when there is not at least one other woman present if there is a man in the elevator.
What extraordinary precautions can you take to NEVER find yourself thinking, feeling, or seeing another man again?
Pep- I hate looking in the past to see how selfish I was..are there reasons? Sure..but no excuse..I just wished I knew and was more aware of all this many years ago..I really hadn't posted much on here I just read it everyday, I just felt like posting on this one for some reason. It's really ugly looking back when you were a wayward and having been betrayed allows you to see it very clearly. BTW- You guys are great and I apoologize if I am not helping out..I was shaking as I was posting..I just wished we spent more time on this before we ever get to this place..Like in high school but we don't care about this stuff at that age
One last thing..I see you said you feel bad for everything you are putting your kids and husband thru..so instead of easing their pain you are just posting away with more excuses causing them more pain making them feel responsible when in reality they didn't want any of this..they had no choice in the matter..God..I hate that I was like this..what a @#$@#$@ I was!
I don't think I was ever trying to place the blame on them or anyone else for that matter. I do blame myself.
When one takes ownership of their own behavior, they don't confess and then commence to cite the perceived shortcomings of SOMEONE ELSE. That is a WAYWARD TACTIC. And you did that in your first post here:
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When I try to rationalize what I did I can come up so many things that I was feeling. Before we bought the house I was feeling a distance between senninpa before. I would see something in his behavior that made me think "well that is a unlike him" I would disregard it then something else would come up. Repeatedly, so then I thought he is having a relations with someone else. (still have that thought). No this is no excuse for my actions just mentioning what I felt.
That is not taking accountability for your crimes.
The reason you have affairs is because you have inappropriate boundaries around men. You know, more than anyone else, that you cannot be around men without your husband. YOU KNOW THIS.
Step one is to NEVER be alone with a [non-relative] male EVER. With a serial cheater the solution is much more than cutting off contact with ONE PERSON.
Pep- I hate looking in the past to see how selfish I was..are there reasons? Sure..but no excuse..I just wished I knew and was more aware of all this many years ago..I really hadn't posted much on here I just read it everyday, I just felt like posting on this one for some reason. It's really ugly looking back when you were a wayward and having been betrayed allows you to see it very clearly. BTW- You guys are great and I apoologize if I am not helping out..I was shaking as I was posting..I just wished we spent more time on this before we ever get to this place..Like in high school but we don't care about this stuff at that age
So tell me what you believe are boundaries so I can get a better idea of where i went wrong and where I can learn from without the jabs please!
Some practical advice and reading material:
* Buy your own copy of SAA, if you do not have one, and start reading with a highlighter. If you've got your husband's copy, keep reading that in the meantime while you wait for your copy to arrive. * Watch this video: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi1001_infidelity0.html
* Read two entire sections of this website: Basic Concepts, and How to Survive Infidelity. There are pages and pages of links there. Read them all. * Find out how you can place a call to Dr. Harley for help, free * Read about Extraordinary Precautions. This answers the question you actually asked: how do I have good boundaries. If you wish, you may do this first. * Post to us about each of these things as you do them. Ask questions that show you have been reading and are making plans to ACT.
All of the above material will give you a massive amount of practical suggestions. These things to do will help you if you DO them. We can help you by pointing out when you are talking instead of acting.
1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.
If you had been following this rule, you would not be in your current mire of pain-o-rama.
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2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.
Right now, during early recovery ... do not measure how BH is meeting your needs. He's in survival mode. YOU do the 'heavy lifting' of recovery without expectations of reciprocity (for now).
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3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.
You listen. You dispense hugs. You do not whine or complain about your feelings at this time.
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4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.
Make honesty a daily goal. If you had been practicing this, you'd not be in your current mess of being the cause of so much misery.
You said you have been NC a month - how do you PLAN keeping that?
As for boundaries - think along, please - what have you done to make your affairs possible? LIKE: - relationship talks with other men, sharing personal information with them, like "Oh I know what you mean, my H is exactly the same, he does this..." - lying to my H constantly, omitting the truth, leaving out things that shed the "wrong kind of light" to you, using kids or other relatives as my cover - having independent lifestyle, doing what, where, when I want at the expense of my H, not discussing your daily things with him, not valuing his opinion, not putting much emphasis on what he has to say - spending time with other men recreationally, company parties, "just lunches" etc - acting like if you were a single person, and not giving a damn about your H's needs whatsoever
[ * Read about Extraordinary Precautions. This answers the question you actually asked: how do I have good boundaries. If you wish, you may do this first.
This is where I would begin. I would read the thread on Extraordinary precautions and start working on your own plan. I would work on this today and have it ready for your husband when he comes home tonight. He needs to be SAFE from you more than anything.
It will take you a LONG TIME and a LOT of work to earn his forgiveness, but that would be a good first start.
You need to render aide to your VICTIMS and that is a good first step.
Seeinpawife..I think your in great hands here..I really do wish you well. The cool thing, is that when you get it things will click..it won't take away the pain but it will allow you to build a better life with your husband and kids. It will allow you to help others, teach your kids how a marriage should really work and hopefully will allow you a deeper emotional connection with the one you love.
Good luck..if you have a question for me please ask..
So tell me what you believe are boundaries so I can get a better idea of where i went wrong and where I can learn from without the jabs please!
I'm sure this was directed to me so I'll jump in here to show you I'm not a complete meanie.
You're going to be getting good examples from posters about ways you can personally care for yourself so that you do not put yourself and your marriage in harm's way. For example: Never discuss your personal or marital issues with a member of the opposite sex. I even take it one step further: I never discuss my marital concerns with anyone but my husband.
The advice will be practical and spot-on, knowing our members. However, you have to also understand that there is a program here to affair-proof your marriage. It's important that you understand this and utilize all of the program, not just pieces here and there.
While you're learning about boundaries, you also need to read SAA to learn how to revitalize your marriage. If the only thing you do is tighten up your boundaries without learning how to build a great marriage, you may be left feeling resentful or dissatisfied because the conditions of your marriage will not have changed. That will leave you vulnerable to loosening up your boundaries again.
You need to learn all of the concepts.
Now I'll throw this back to you: consider your past actions and things that you did that left the door open to having an affair. What were those things? How would you do things differently in the future? In other words, what do YOU believe your boundaries should be?
Taking blame is a person looking for punishment, or retribution. Taking responsibility is a person looking for solutions and lessons.
Words of gold!
My STBXWW never minded taking blame for anything. 'Oh well it was me. Now lets move on' has always been her attitude. That is definatly not taking resposibility. Finding solutions, lessons learned and JUST COMPENSATION is taking resposibility.
Oh and lessons learned does not mean figuring out how to not get caught next time.
Tonight, tell Senn you are eager to take the poly so you can prove your honesty and relieve some of his discomfort. Tell him to call and schedule it. Tell him you will be there with bells on. Happy to do it. Tell Senn you will joyfully PAY FOR THE POLY by selling your guns and or your motorcycle.
Tonight, tell Senn you are eager to take the poly so you can prove your honesty and relieve some of his discomfort. Tell him to call and schedule it. Tell him you will be there with bells on. Happy to do it. Tell Senn you will joyfully PAY FOR THE POLY by selling your guns and or your motorcycle.
I am ready for poly whole heatedly and told him so. I have been reading SAA, his needs her needs. I am searching for self help articals going to buys some books. I am trying but this is not an over night make over.
I am ready for poly whole heatedly and told him so. I have been reading SAA, his needs her needs. I am searching for self help articals going to buys some books. I am trying but this is not an over night make over.
Excellent! When are you scheduled to take it?
This is definitely not an overnight process, but doing it right is infinitely faster than NOT doing it over and over and over.
I am ready for poly whole heatedly and told him so. I have been reading SAA, his needs her needs. I am searching for self help articals going to buys some books. I am trying but this is not an over night make over.
There are only TWO books you need to be reading. Don't muddy the waters by getting other books that have no plan. The TWO books you need are: Surviving an Affair and Five STeps to Romantic Love. The part you should especially focus on FIRST will come from this board by establishing extraordinary precautions.
ARe you ready to implement extraordinary precautions to protect your husband and kids from a repeat affair?
Repost, since you asked about extraordinary precautions:
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by markos
[ * Read about Extraordinary Precautions. This answers the question you actually asked: how do I have good boundaries. If you wish, you may do this first.
This is where I would begin. I would read the thread on Extraordinary precautions and start working on your own plan. I would work on this today and have it ready for your husband when he comes home tonight. He needs to be SAFE from you more than anything.
It will take you a LONG TIME and a LOT of work to earn his forgiveness, but that would be a good first start.
You need to render aide to your VICTIMS and that is a good first step.
I wonder if she is really in it. No real proof so far
What do you mean no real proof so far??? What do you see that I am not seeing??
I have told all everything, I am reading my books, ready for poly today. I take full blame for my actions can't understand why I did what I did. I am working with H answer all questions repeated questions.
I wonder if she is really in it. No real proof so far
What do you mean no real proof so far??? What do you see that I am not seeing??
I have told all everything, I am reading my books, ready for poly today. I take full blame for my actions can't understand why I did what I did. I am working with H answer all questions repeated questions.
That is really cute and winsome that you are sitting there reading some books while the Titanic sinks, but how about addressing the real problem; ie: your MARRIAGE? Did you remember that? You read some books 10 years ago and it didn't make any difference. It won't a difference now and it doesn't fool us into thinking you are serious.
Saying you "take the blame" for your actions doesn't mean anything without some real action. Talk is cheap.
And yes, we know why you have affairs: because you chase men. So lets get honest about that. You chase men and sometimes you catch them. NEXT! The solution is to set up your life in such a way that you CAN'T chase men. That means intgrating your lifestyle with your husband and spending as much time as possible with him. Would it be possible to work with him at the same place?
We told you what to do several days ago and you have done NONE of it. Put the silly damn book down and get to work:
Originally Posted by melodylane
This is where I would begin. I would read the thread on Extraordinary precautions and start working on your own plan. I would work on this today and have it ready for your husband when he comes home tonight. He needs to be SAFE from you more than anything.
It will take you a LONG TIME and a LOT of work to earn his forgiveness, but that would be a good first start.
You need to render aide to your VICTIMS and that is a good first step.
Do you and your husband work different shifts? If so, then you need to start looking for another job or ask for another shift. Your lives need to be as integrated as possible so that your husband is with you for ALL your leisure time.
And what about men at work? Is your job the type where you chase men openly at work? DEscribe the opportunities for chasing down men at work? Have you gotten it on with any guys there yet?
here ya go! How about getting off your butt and do what we suggested?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by markos
[ * Read about Extraordinary Precautions. This answers the question you actually asked: how do I have good boundaries. If you wish, you may do this first.
This is where I would begin. I would read the thread on Extraordinary precautions and start working on your own plan. I would work on this today and have it ready for your husband when he comes home tonight. He needs to be SAFE from you more than anything.
It will take you a LONG TIME and a LOT of work to earn his forgiveness, but that would be a good first start.
You need to render aide to your VICTIMS and that is a good first step.
What do you mean no real proof so far??? What do you see that I am not seeing??
You are not seeing a gun and a motorcycle. You are not selling your personal belongings to let the poly happen asap. Thus you are not volunteering the help.
Here's a "put your money where your mouth is" action for you;
contact a lawyer, and have him draw up a post-nup which states that you will receive no more than 25% of marital assets, with no legal fees or alimony, nor other monies, in the event that you divorce due to further infidelity from you.
Don't wait for him to ask for it, don't wait for him to do it, go down and do it yourself. Pay for it yourself.
I have told all everything, I am reading my books, ready for poly today.
I'm going to pin you down on this, because I get the impression that you are dodging the question.
I've asked you twice to tell us when you are scheduled for a polygraph, and both times you did not respond. Now you're saying that you are 'ready for poly today'. Are you saying you are physically/emotionally ready to take one as of today, or that you are ready to take the poly that is scheduled for today?
Those are two different things, and your silence as an answer to my direct question and disengenuous references to a poly 'today' smacks of avoidance and manipulation. Am I wrong?
No were not selling the motorcycle it needs repaired after it was stolen, don't have $ to fix it. I am not selling my rifle cause it's my hunting rifle that I use to go hunting with my husband. Something we do together.
I am waiting on husband to schedule poly since he did the research he knows all the details. I am not avoiding the question I just don't have an answer for you. Right now we agreed to wait till after Christmas cause we would like our kids to have a decent Christmas. It would not be fair to them to get absolutely nothing when they did nothing wrong.
So yes you are wrong the avoidance was I have no answer for you, nothing to manipulate!!!
No were not selling the motorcycle it needs repaired after it was stolen, don't have $ to fix it. I am not selling my rifle cause it's my hunting rifle that I use to go hunting with my husband. Something we do together.
How often do you do this? When is your next hunting trip scheduled?
What do you mean no real proof so far??? What do you see that I am not seeing??
You have been posted to repeatedly regarding Extraordinary Precautions.
Yet I don't think we have seen you mention one single EP you are going to implement to keep this from happening again.
As the BW of a serial cheater, this is very alarming to me.
As you have (hopefully) realized, willpower and good intentions won't keep you from cheating again. It is all about changing the conditions that have enabled you to have all these affairs.
Can you tell us, have you read up on Extraordinary Precautions?
If so, what is your plan to protect your BH & M? What conditions do you think need to be changed to stop this from happening again?
Susie, the last I checked, she was still asking where she could find information about extraordinary precautions.
When she first started asking questions, I was impressed; took that as a sign she was ready to work. But she's still asking the same questions, which is a bit worrisome.
I had an EA that luckily blew up before it wrecked my family. Once it blew up, I did EVERYTHING in my power to right the wrong. If you need to sell stuff, walk dogs or whatever to come up with some extra money to get the poly...do it! Don't wait for Senn and rely on him because he did the research and thinks you should wait till January.
Take charge of this and take action to show him him much your family and marriage mean to you. Get going!
Relying on Senn to decide when the time is right or when you have money seems to be enforcing a bad pattern in your marriage. You let him lead but sneak around behind him. Get out front and start making things right. Don't lay this burden on him. That pattern has not served either of you well.
But she's still asking the same questions, which is a bit worrisome.
She says she read SAA, so she shouldn't be ignorant to what EPs are. I see two posters here, Senn and Senn's wife, who like to make noise so they can say they tried. I see no actual effort.
Please don't blame Marriage Builders if you are unable to rebuild your marriage. There are enough posters on the internet who whine that Marriage Builders didn't work for them, when the truth is that they came here, expecting a magical potion or lotion that would just wash over them and make it all better. They didn't want to do the work, and their marriages failed. They still need to have the ability to talk about their marriage, but they know they can't come back here without being called out for their failure to do the work required to save their marriages. So they whine about it elsewhere.
I think a lot of people have the idea that there's nothing they really can do, they just need time "to heal," as well as "support." So they are here to talk to get that "support."
But Dr. Harley says the path to successful recovery from an affair is narrow. Alter the plan, miss something, do nothing, and failure is pretty much inevitable.
It would be extremely irresponsible of us on this forum not to help educate people about the plan and the need to make changes in their marriage to recover.
It would be extremely irresponsible of us on this forum not to help educate people about the plan and the need to make changes in their marriage to recover.
Get outta my head, Markos! That's exactly what I was thinking!
Yes I printed out the EP read it over and IMO I have followed all but two on there, so Yes I am going to highlight A) to always think of my husbands and his feeling fore most and F) I am going to be HONEST about everything no matter how hard it is.
I have not contacted OM or any other man. I have told Senn everything I am not with holding anything (what a relief to carry such a burden.
Holderherhand~ I am not greedy in the sense of materialistic items Senn knows that. If we were not able to make it through this today or years from now, he knows I would ask for a thing.
Martialbliss~ Why would I or anyone blame MB for their marriage failing???? I know that my actions would have to be the blame.
Yes I printed out the EP read it over and IMO I have followed all but two on there, so Yes I am going to highlight A) to always think of my husbands and his feeling fore most and F) I am going to be HONEST about everything no matter how hard it is.
Okay. That is good.
IF you read EPs thread carefully then you must have noticed that there are 2 categories of EP's. This one here you are talking about is the second category which is to be maintained for lifetime.
The first category of EPs needs to be completed quickly. This is HerPapaBear's list - but what is your list and have you completed these? I suspect you haven't done it. In short, you haven't eliminated the conditions that has made your affairs possible. You are still open to have another affair and you are still a danger.
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A) Change cell phone number and give password & account access to your spouse. B) Change email account. C) Eliminate all social networking accounts (i.e., Face book, Classmates, My Space, etc.) D) Take a polygraph E) Make a copy of my vehicle keys and any other keys my spouse does not have and give to them (i.e., safe deposit boxes, business keys, storage cabinets/lockers, etc.) F) List out passwords for all business and personal computer logins, and any other passwords my spouse does not have access to. G) Give my spouse access to any banking/financial accounts, business and personal. H) Install software that tracks all internet use, giving my spouse administrative access. I) Install a webcam/security cameras for while at work that my spouse can access. J) I will contact an attorney that will work on my spouse�s behalf and write a post-nuptial agreement. K) Sell the house/purchase a new one. L) Sell any vehicle AP was in and replace them.
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I have not contacted OM or any other man.
THIS is not enough. You have to make sure that THEY won't have ANY possibility to contact you. How will you make sure they cannot contact you?
Martialbliss~ Why would I or anyone blame MB for their marriage failing???? I know that my actions would have to be the blame.
It happens. There are people in this world who don't like to own the negative outcome of their inaction/actions. They'll look for someone else to dump them on.
Yes I printed out the EP read it over and IMO I have followed all but two on there, so Yes I am going to highlight A) to always think of my husbands and his feeling fore most and F) I am going to be HONEST about everything no matter how hard it is.
I have not contacted OM or any other man. I have told Senn everything I am not with holding anything (what a relief to carry such a burden.
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
Yes, senn's wife. Please list your EPs so we can see that you're headed in the right direction. I may have missed a post on your thread, but I don't believe I've seen any reference to active EPs. Don't get me wrong, saying you're going to think of your H's feelings foremost is all soft and sweet-sounding in a Hallmark greeting card kind of way, but I'm curious to see what actions you're putting in place to safeguard your M.
I can't remember if anyone suggested this to you, but I'd like you to read HerPapaBear's EP thread. I get the feeling that you are a little lost on exactly what EPs are and how to establish them.
Read the whole thread. Not just the first few posts.---->HPB's EPs Thread
Dear blank, I am so sorry for what I have done to you and your family. I expect that you will never be able to forgive me for my actions as I would probably not if in your shoes. Nothing is worse to lose your closest friends for a terrible act I have committed out of greed and excitement. I will not nor ever try to contact om as that would just be asking for more than trouble. I pray that you and your husband make it through and have a better stronger relationship.
I�m sorry that you have to be constantly reminded of me when people ask about me. My suggestion would be to tell them you don�t know and that I would like to hear from them so call me.
You were a great friend who taught me a lot and I am sad to say that I felt we were growing apart, long before the affair. I can serve you no justice other than the guilt and shame for what I have done.
I can�t explain how or why we ended up where we were. I can say it was thoughtless and cruel and that you and my husband didn�t deserve this.
I am so sorry that our relationship had to end this way, and I�m so sorry for all the hurt and pain I have caused you and your family. ************************************************************
I am sorry for the pain I have caused you and your family as well as my own. What we did was thoughtless and cruel and your wife and my husband didn�t deserve any of this. This is my no contact letter to inform you that I will not now or ever try to have contact with you or through anyone else to have no contact with you. No contact by phone, mail, email, messages, text or any other form of communication.
If I see you around town, I will walk the way, I will avoid you in respect of our spouses, and ourselves. I am working on my marriage as you should do.
Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives . . . Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers (1 Peter 3:1-2,7, NIV).
Dear blank, I am so sorry for what I have done to you and your family. I expect that you will never be able to forgive me for my actions as I would probably not if in your shoes. Nothing is worse to lose your closest friends for a terrible act I have committed out of greed and excitement. I will not nor ever try to contact om as that would just be asking for more than trouble. I pray that you and your husband make it through and have a better stronger relationship.
I�m sorry that you have to be constantly reminded of me when people ask about me. My suggestion would be to tell them you don�t know and that I would like to hear from them so call me.
You were a great friend who taught me a lot and I am sad to say that I felt we were growing apart, long before the affair. I can serve you no justice other than the guilt and shame for what I have done.
I can�t explain how or why we ended up where we were. I can say it was thoughtless and cruel and that you and my husband didn�t deserve this.
I am so sorry that our relationship had to end this way, and I�m so sorry for all the hurt and pain I have caused you and your family. ************************************************************
I am sorry for the pain I have caused you and your family as well as my own. What we did was thoughtless and cruel and your wife and my husband didn�t deserve any of this. This is my no contact letter to inform you that I will not now or ever try to have contact with you or through anyone else to have no contact with you. No contact by phone, mail, email, messages, text or any other form of communication.
If I see you around town, I will walk the way, I will avoid you in respect of our spouses, and ourselves. I am working on my marriage as you should do.
Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives . . . Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers (1 Peter 3:1-2,7, NIV).
Striked out the foggy part that stood out to me. I'm not sure about the biblical verse... I don't understand it and I'm not sure if it is appropriate. That's just my opinion.
ETA: SW. The OW in my sitch was also someone who I believed was a friend. I would be incensed if she sent me a letter quoting biblical verses. I'm sure that is not the response you want with your letter.
Dear blank, I am so sorry for what I have done to you and your family. I expect that you will never be able toPlease forgive me for my actions. as I would probably not if in your shoes. Nothing is worse to lose your closest friends for a terrible act I have committed out of greed and excitement. I will not nor ever try to contact om as that would just be asking for more than trouble. I pray that you and your husband make it through and have a better stronger relationship.
I�m sorry that you have to be constantly reminded of me when people ask about me. My suggestion would be to tell them you don�t know and that I would like to hear from them so call me.
You were a great friend who taught me a lot and I am sad OMW at the loss of our friendship to say that I felt we were growing apart, long before the affair. I can serve you no justice other than the guilt and shame for what I have done. I can�t explain how or why we ended up where we were. I can say itThe A was thoughtless and cruel. and that you and my husband didn�t deserve this.
I am so sorry OMW that our relationship had to end this way, and I�m so sorry for all the hurt and pain I have caused you and your family. ************************************************************
I am sorry for the pain I have caused you and your family as well as my own. What weI did was thoughtless and cruel.
OMW's name your wife and Your BH's name my husband didn�t deserve any of this.
This is my no contact letter to inform OM you that I will not now or ever try to have contact with you or through anyone else to have no contact with you. No contact by phone, mail, email, messages, text or any other form of communication.
If I see you around town, I will walk the way, I will avoid you in respect of our spouses, and ourselves. I am working on my marriage with BH's name. as you should do.
Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives . . . Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers (1 Peter 3:1-2,7, NIV).
Good to see you back.
Just some suggestions. I am no expert at this. The stuff I struck through changes the responsibility to you for your actions. You can not take responsibility for the OM or tell him what to do. That is up to him/them as a couple to work through.
I would throw that in the trash and send this to the OM just like it says in SAA [change the genders obviously]:
OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely, XXXXX
And I would lose the scripture part. That is hypocritical to spout scripture after you just took your panties off with her husband.
My wife wrote a very similar letter to the one you drafted; I listened to MB advice and rejected it. Betrayed spouses do not want to hear about how much YOU LOVE YOUR LOVER. The letter is not between YOU and HIM. The letter is a sign of commitment to your mariage and telling your LOVER that YOU ARE COMMITTING TO YOUR HUSBAND and what YOU did was WRONG. It breaks my heart that my wife has no remorse, your writing seems a lot like hers; she views the affair as a learning process; something that she benefited from. I have been devastated, but she cares more about her LOVERS feelings than mine; I suspect that you also CARE more about your LOVER THAN YOUR HUSBAND otherwise you would write the letter Melody suggested, which is part of a Program to Affair Recovery.
A betrayed spouse doesn't want to hear from the OW and doesn't care about your feelings. Telling her you hope she has a great marriage in the future is sort of warped after you just destroyed her marriage. All she wants is to get you out of her life. You do that by sending a no contact letter to your adultery partner.
Just to point out ... it's rather confusing, but I believe the text of the projected letter(s) is split into two parts .... above the asterisks, to the OMW .... below the asterisks, to the OM.
A betrayed spouse doesn't want to hear from the OW and doesn't care about your feelings. Telling her you hope she has a great marriage in the future is sort of warped after you just destroyed her marriage. All she wants is to get you out of her life. You do that by sending a no contact letter to your adultery partner.
What Mel said. And PLEASE DO NOT sully the Good Book by being so presumptuous to quote from it regarding marital advice. I would have been HUGELY insulted if the skank in my sitch had had the audacity to send something like that to me.
Use the NC letter from SAA. Send it to and be done with it.
I am sorry to tell you but...you are still screwing up. Big time.
Three weeks and the NCL still isn't sent? After having 6+ affairs, you can't be bothered to share your detailed Extraordinary Precaution list with us, despite being asked several times?
You realize we are actually trying to help you save your M, right? Not just posting this stuff to you for the fun of it?
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
This is the third time now I am asking for this, in addition to many others who have asked you about your EPs.
As long as you keep posting, I am going to keep asking.
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
This is the third time now I am asking for this, in addition to many others who have asked you about your EPs.
As long as you keep posting, I am going to keep asking.
My husband knows the EP we have talked about. I am sorry that I dont have time to list them now but I will squeeze time out to list them before long.
Just to point out ... it's rather confusing, but I believe the text of the projected letter(s) is split into two parts .... above the asterisks, to the OMW .... below the asterisks, to the OM.
Thank you for actually understanding that yes there are two letters.
I will send a letter to the OMW because she was my friend and if she wants to wipe her [censored] with it so be it! I will go back an edit some of it. Below the as-tricks was for the OM and I will delete the scripture since it sounds Hypocritical.
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
This is the third time now I am asking for this, in addition to many others who have asked you about your EPs.
As long as you keep posting, I am going to keep asking.
Wow Susie Q you and a few others must have all the time in the world. It must be nice to be a stay at home women with few responsibilities and to sit at the computer picking over everyone's thread and responding that your trying to help... with your advice you make a great psychotherapist, who needs a degree!.
Damn those holidays. They should change there timing so I can just drop everything. My kids will understand why we aren't having Christmas this year and oh yeah I can afford not to go to work.... My husband knows the EP we have talked about. I am sorry that I dont have time to list them now but I will squeeze time out to list them before long.
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
This is the third time now I am asking for this, in addition to many others who have asked you about your EPs.
As long as you keep posting, I am going to keep asking.
Wow Susie Q you and a few others must have all the time in the world. It must be nice to be a stay at home women with few responsibilities and to sit at the computer picking over everyone's thread and responding that your trying to help... with your advice you make a great psychotherapist, who needs a degree!.
Damn those holidays. They should change there timing so I can just drop everything. My kids will understand why we aren't having Christmas this year and oh yeah I can afford not to go to work.... My husband knows the EP we have talked about. I am sorry that I dont have time to list them now but I will squeeze time out to list them before long.
Being a smartass is the fastest way to get people to stop posting to you.
I will send a letter to the OMW because she was my friend and if she wants to wipe her [censored] with it so be it! I will go back an edit some of it. Below the as-tricks was for the OM and I will delete the scripture since it sounds Hypocritical.
Why don't you show some compassion and leave the woman alone? No BS wants to hear from the OW. She has been harmed enough by you and doesn't need be reminded of her worst nightmare. Do you think the rape victim wants to hear from her rapist? No, she doesn't. Just leave her the hell alone.
How about actually USING Marriage Builders for once and do what Dr Harley advises? Send a no contact letter to the OM and leave well enough alone.
And please don't tell them to "work on their marriage" when you are the one who wrecked it. That is really sick. That is like the rapist lecturing his victim about getting psychological help.
Wow Susie Q you and a few others must have all the time in the world. It must be nice to be a stay at home women with few responsibilities and to sit at the computer picking over everyone's thread
I work seven days a week, and I take care of two children, by myself, thank you very much.
It should take you, hmmm, maybe 10 minutes to write a NCL letter fashioned after the one in SAA but it has taken you three weeks...
Writing out your EPs and posting them should take you, IDK, maybe an hour?? Especially given that you were handed some very good ones from another FWS here on a silver platter.
Lastly, you couldn't even be bothered to answer the question
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
This is the third time now I am asking for this, in addition to many others who have asked you about your EPs.
As long as you keep posting, I am going to keep asking.
Wow Susie Q you and a few others must have all the time in the world. It must be nice to be a stay at home women with few responsibilities and to sit at the computer picking over everyone's thread and responding that your trying to help... with your advice you make a great psychotherapist, who needs a degree!.
Damn those holidays. They should change there timing so I can just drop everything. My kids will understand why we aren't having Christmas this year and oh yeah I can afford not to go to work.... My husband knows the EP we have talked about. I am sorry that I dont have time to list them now but I will squeeze time out to list them before long.
Good grief, YOU HAD AN AFFAIR. You shouldnt be able to even sleep until these very basic first steps TOWARDS repentance are done. I wouldnt even let my wayward back in the house before it was done, it wont take more than an hour or two.
You found the time to have an affair - how stupid do we look?
Cut the pity party. Are you done with the letter and the EPs or is there a reason you dont want to tell us about as to why you dont want to do them?
If I was your husband I would be exceptionally wary as to why this Christmas my feelings of betrayal were entirely swept under the rug by my 'busy' wife.
But hey, you probably got him a gift or something instead.
There are honest and good people here who are attempting to help you and you are acting like a self centered spoiled brat. Time to look outside yourself and look at the path of destruction that you have created. Time to suck it up. Follow what the vets say, be humble, and do the right thing. I am done with the 2X4. Next.
Can you actually LIST out your Extraordinary Precautions? We need you to be specific (number them)...this is not the time to be vague. Yes, it is THAT important.
This is the third time now I am asking for this, in addition to many others who have asked you about your EPs.
As long as you keep posting, I am going to keep asking.
Wow Susie Q you and a few others must have all the time in the world. It must be nice to be a stay at home women with few responsibilities and to sit at the computer picking over everyone's thread and responding that your trying to help... with your advice you make a great psychotherapist, who needs a degree!.
Damn those holidays. They should change there timing so I can just drop everything. My kids will understand why we aren't having Christmas this year and oh yeah I can afford not to go to work.... My husband knows the EP we have talked about. I am sorry that I dont have time to list them now but I will squeeze time out to list them before long.
More posts like this will be followed by, "Why is no one posting to me anymore?" posts.
Do you WANT help? I know you NEED it, but do you WANT to save your marriage?
And, I am quite certain that NONE of the women posting to you are SAHM's BTW. But, if they were, they would be taking time away from their family to help YOU. You are NOT entitled to help, don't bite the hand that feeds you, you just might starve.
More posts like this will be followed by, "Why is no one posting to me anymore?" posts.
Do you WANT help? I know you NEED it, but do you WANT to save your marriage?
And, I am quite certain that NONE of the women posting to you are SAHM's BTW. But, if they were, they would be taking time away from their family to help YOU. You are NOT entitled to help, don't bite the hand that feeds you, you just might starve.
And to top it off, it's not off the cuff advice, but solid advice that works.
In you last few posts you have insulted and demeaned the efforts to assist you of charitable women from four countries (Britain, Canada, the US, and Texas). ETA: Australia just chimed in, four posts down. None of them have any great investment in your happiness, though they might have some in that of your husband. They are doing what they do on their own time because they have been through the horror that you have visited on him. My advice to you would be:
When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!
Your efforts at the letters to OM and OMW were not terrible. They needed some work, and a quick look would confirm the several and various edits all focused on the same points - excusing your actions and "sugar-coating" the dungpile you have left for others to clean up. (ML, of course, went all minimalist, but that is due to her depth of knowledge.)
To help yourself, and your BH, your best answer should have been: Thanks, got it, I'll make the recommended adjustments.
I don't know if they'll continue to work with you here. It may be that you got the conflict you wanted, and can now return to your BH and say, "Well, I tried. They were nasty to me!" I do know, however, that they remain your best hope for getting out of that hole we discussed earlier.
Just to point out ... it's rather confusing, but I believe the text of the projected letter(s) is split into two parts .... above the asterisks, to the OMW .... below the asterisks, to the OM.
Thank you for actually understanding that yes there are two letters.
Come on,,,, EVERYBODY understood there were two letters!
We all understood clearly!
That is why we ALL have suggested that you NOT send anything other than what Dr. Harley recommends.
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
I will send a letter to the OMW because she was my friend and if she wants to wipe her [censored] with it so be it! I will go back an edit some of it. Below the as-tricks was for the OM and I will delete the scripture since it sounds Hypocritical.
It's obvious that you have a great deal of disdain for those on this forum that are trying to help you. Why?
You choose to insult stay at home moms, erroneously suggesting they have more time than you, without realizing that the majority of those following and responding to you are women (and men) with outide of the home careers. It would bode well for you if you actually took the time to read some of their stories.
I'm a FWS myself, I work full time (average 70 hours a week), help with our six children, attend church, spend 15 hrs of UA time with my wife and still have time to read and post on the forums. I also have time for other leisure activities. So belittling posters and assuming we have more time than you is not productive, nor is it accurate. So PLEASE stop!
In regards to an apology letter to the other BS.... If you really want to do that, I'd recommend it happen ONLY with your husbands enthusiastic agreement and with his full involvement and with his willingness to deliver said letter.... Otherwise it doesn't happen.
But I will add this caveat, I think it's a huge mistake, in your current stage of recovery, to consider anything other than a NC Letter.
Why you ask?
Bcause at the stage of recovery you are currently in, you are still focused on what YOU want, how to save face, how to still justify some of what you did and how to minimize your consequences as well as the amount of work you'll need to do....
Yes, I know you'll agree to do things, but at this stage I'm betting it's only if you can do it the way you want to....
Just wanted to say that as a "mostly" SAHM, I was offended. I am raising a total of 8 children, homeschooling, work one day a week in a professional job, cook, clean go to Dr. Appts, get groceries and go to church etc. all with fibromyalgia/ chronic fatigue and a husband only home two days a week. You have some arrogance issues to deal with, IMHO.
I'm disgusted. SAHM or not, you have demeaned the posters and the time volunteered to give you advice that works. I think if a poster is a SAHM or a full-time worker is irrelevant. The advice is what matters. Do you think you're better because you work? That is the tone you took. Other posters are right. You still found the time to cheat.
This ain't remorseful. This is insulting to the hand that feeds you. Why? Because they are interupting your waywardness, asking you to.confront yourself. You don't want that. You are showing through your lack of posting EPs and your posts here that you prefer to remain wayward in your attitude. Please stop. Please think. Read the posts to you. Listen. This is your opportunity to make changes. You may not have another one.
In you last few posts you have insulted and demeaned the efforts to assist you of charitable women from four countries (Britain, Canada, the US, and Texas). ETA: Australia just chimed in, four posts down. None of them have any great investment in your happiness, though they might have some in that of your husband. They are doing what they do on their own time because they have been through the horror that you have visited on him. My advice to you would be:
Your efforts at the letters to OM and OMW were not terrible. They needed some work, and a quick look would confirm the several and various edits all focused on the same points - excusing your actions and "sugar-coating" the dungpile you have left for others to clean up. (ML, of course, went all minimalist, but that is due to her depth of knowledge.)When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!
To help yourself, and your BH, your best answer should have been: Thanks, got it, I'll make the recommended adjustments. I don't know if they'll continue to work with you here. It may be that you got the conflict you wanted, and can now return to your BH and say, "Well, I tried. They were nasty to me!" I do know, however, that they remain your best hope for getting out of that hole we discussed earlier.
No insulting others is not fundamental at all but there are times you cant bite your tongue and you feel like you cant get a word in edge wise cause they post to fast and IMO pick at some things that seem pointless. IMO
Maybe I am so use to this stupid hole that it's comfortable and I don't know any other difference. IDK.
In regards to an apology letter to the other BS.... If you really want to do that, I'd recommend it happen ONLY with your husbands enthusiastic agreement and with his full involvement and with his willingness to deliver said letter.... Otherwise it doesn't happen.
But I will add this caveat, I think it's a huge mistake, in your current stage of recovery, to consider anything other than a NC Letter.
My husband has read the letters agrees that they need tweaked Why you ask?
Bcause at the stage of recovery you are currently in, you are still focused on what YOU want, how to save face, how to still justify some of what you did and how to minimize your consequences as well as the amount of work you'll need to do....
Yes, I know you'll agree to do things, but at this stage I'm betting it's only if you can do it the way you want to....
I know you!
No I am working on everything that are way out of my comfort zone.. IMO its not the way I want to. I have done all that he asks. I have found a polygraph-er but it's two hours away, I am making an appointment next week.
You mention I'd do anything to save face but honestly I figured when he found out he would have kicked me out so I made a plan in my head of people to stay with and even thought of returning to my mothers. Since he hasn't fully decided It's hard cause you don't know which to put all your eggs. I kept thinking, leave, stay, leave, stay, since he goes back and forth. But some posters have wrote give him lots of hugs and be there, so I have been trying it even when he is hurt, cold, mean, upset, and happy. I have decided to put all my eggs in the basket to make him happy, even if it means my basket gets turned.
[font:Impact]A) Change cell phone number and give password & account access to your spouse. B) Change email account. C) Eliminate all social networking accounts (i.e., Face book, Classmates, My Space, etc.) D) Take a polygraph E) Make a copy of my vehicle keys and any other keys my spouse does not have and give to them (i.e., safe deposit boxes, business keys, storage cabinets/lockers, etc.) F) List out passwords for all business and personal computer logins, and any other passwords my spouse does not have access to. G) Give my spouse access to any banking/financial accounts, business and personal. H) Install software that tracks all internet use, giving my spouse administrative access. I) Install a webcam/security cameras for while at work that my spouse can access. J) I will contact an attorney that will work on my spouse�s behalf and write a post-nuptial agreement. K) Sell the house/purchase a new one. L) Sell any vehicle AP was in and replace them.[font:Impact]
-My husband can access my phone at any time, Changing the # has been discussed but hasn't been an issue yet. -We share an email address, and I don't use any others, and if I had he knows the password. -I had used FB haven't been on there we agreed that I would delete everyone but family. I haven't done so because I spend all of my time with husband, and not computer. -making an appointment -no need we share all of these items -ditto -I know he an use history and he may have other methods. not sure -not possible, work in manufac shop -not necessary, he and I both know I wouldn't take a thing from him. -just did that -no need
In regards to an apology letter to the other BS.... If you really want to do that, I'd recommend it happen ONLY with your husbands enthusiastic agreement and with his full involvement and with his willingness to deliver said letter.... Otherwise it doesn't happen.
But I will add this caveat, I think it's a huge mistake, in your current stage of recovery, to consider anything other than a NC Letter.
My husband has read the letters agrees that they need tweaked
Senn,
Your husband is in a trauma mode, he is gravely injured and is just limping through existence, trying to put on the appearance of normalcy. He really has no clue about where you're at in this marriage. He really has no clue about what you should or shouldn't do regarding this letter that YOU WANT to send. He is just waiting for the other shoe to drop. And he's expecting it everytime you begin a conversation with him.
And unless your husband asked you to write this apology letter to the BS, you ARE doing things the way YOU want to....
In other words you have NO extraordinary precautions and are just here talking smack. You havent done the first thing. Nothing. Just a lot of empty talk.
What about working in a manufacturing shop full of MEN on an opposite shift from your husband? When and where is that change taking place? And how about admitting that you are addicted to chasing men no matter where or how?
So your list is a WASTE unless it includes changing your job and lifestyle so you can't chase men. That means you get a job where you are surrounded by hens and can't pursue your favorite pastime.
Also, that was really cute that you answered that you got a new house. Did you screw the OM in your house? Did you sell THAT house?
Quote
No insulting others is not fundamental at all but there are times you cant bite your tongue and you feel like you cant get a word in edge wise cause they post to fast and IMO pick at some things that seem pointless. IMO
That is because your goal is to chase c*ck and ours is to help you recover your marriage. So of course these things are pointless to someone who has no intention of changing and has no interest in saving her marriage. You have got away with talking bullcrap ["oh so sorry!! I will read Surviving an Affair!! Lets move on!"] and fiddling around the edges for 15 years and this time your bullcrap is not working for you.
We are hoping at some point you actually get serious. Have seen no sign of that at all.
In my opinion, your H should divorce you because this is a lost cause. There is nothing here to save. Nothing...
[font:Impact]A) Change cell phone number and give password & account access to your spouse. B) Change email account. C) Eliminate all social networking accounts (i.e., Face book, Classmates, My Space, etc.) D) Take a polygraph E) Make a copy of my vehicle keys and any other keys my spouse does not have and give to them (i.e., safe deposit boxes, business keys, storage cabinets/lockers, etc.) F) List out passwords for all business and personal computer logins, and any other passwords my spouse does not have access to. G) Give my spouse access to any banking/financial accounts, business and personal. H) Install software that tracks all internet use, giving my spouse administrative access. I) Install a webcam/security cameras for while at work that my spouse can access. J) I will contact an attorney that will work on my spouse�s behalf and write a post-nuptial agreement. K) Sell the house/purchase a new one. L) Sell any vehicle AP was in and replace them.[font:Impact]
-My husband can access my phone at any time, Changing the # has been discussed but hasn't been an issue yet. -We share an email address, and I don't use any others, and if I had he knows the password. -I had used FB haven't been on there we agreed that I would delete everyone but family. I haven't done so because I spend all of my time with husband, and not computer. -making an appointment -no need we share all of these items -ditto -I know he an use history and he may have other methods. not sure -not possible, work in manufac shop -not necessary, he and I both know I wouldn't take a thing from him. -just did that -no need
I wrote the EP thread you've just quoted from....
I beleive you've missed the point of EP's and Just Compensation completely.
I'm heading out right now but I'd love it if you really read my EP thread and the links provided in the thread and in the mean time I'll try to post back to you again in the next day or so....
In other words you have NO extraordinary precautions and are just here talking smack. You havent done the first thing. Nothing. Just a lot of empty talk.
What about working in a manufacturing shop full of MEN on an opposite shift from your husband? When and where is that change taking place? And how about admitting that you are addicted to chasing men no matter where or how?
~ I was working in a shop as you described that Bh ask to work then he asked me to go where I am today. I have two female workers on my shift, one who I hang out with while @ work. I am not changing jobs cause financially it would be suicide. My actions are always accountable there. I make sure to not put myself in dangerous situations.
So your list is a WASTE unless it includes changing your job and lifestyle so you can't chase men. That means you get a job where you are surrounded by hens and can't pursue your favorite pastime.
Also, that was really cute that you answered that you got a new house. Did you screw the OM in your house? Did you sell THAT house?
~ No we will stay in this house and "over come the demons"
Quote
No insulting others is not fundamental at all but there are times you cant bite your tongue and you feel like you cant get a word in edge wise cause they post to fast and IMO pick at some things that seem pointless. IMO
That is because your goal is chase c*ck and ours is to help you recover your marriage. So of course these things are pointless to someone who has no intention of changing and has no interest in saving her marriage. You have got away with talking bullcrap ["oh so sorry!! I will read Surviving an Affair!! Lets move on!" and fiddling around the edges for 15 years and this time your bullcrap is not working for you.
We are hoping at some point you actually get serious. Have seen no sign of that at all.
In my opinion, your H should divorce you because this is a lost cause. There is nothing here to save. Nothing...
~It's great to hear that you think I am and our M is a lost cause. I don't understand why you think I am not serious. Have you been here in person, called or message to ask what is going on or seen something here, or are you just observing the posts? Do you think as a psychologist your responses are getting to a root of a problem or are you spatting your opinion based of other WS?
Are your posts not reflective of what you are and aren't doing? People are asking you questions and you either don't take the time to answer them, or you insult them.
MelodyLane has seen COUNTLESS of waywards come here. She has done her best to help them, when they showed the willingness to help themselves.
When you get angry about what someone posts, why don't you look at YOURSELF to figure out why that is.
And it is extremely insulting to posters that you find their posts useless(because that's pretty much what you are saying).
Lose the holier than though attitude you have and learn from these people who are actively trying to help you save your marriage. If someone says that you aren't doing something, it's because you AREN'T. If you think that you ARE, then post about it, in a NON-argumentative way.
You had multiple affairs, what makes you think that you are safe for your BH? See, that's what we want for HIM. WE want HIM to be safe, and if that means he needs to let go of you until you show the willingness to become that for him, most of us would advise him to stay away from you.
~It's great to hear that you think I am and our M is a lost cause. I don't understand why you think I am not serious. Have you been here in person, called or message to ask what is going on or seen something here, or are you just observing the posts? Do you think as a psychologist your responses are getting to a root of a problem or are you spatting your opinion based of other WS?
It's not great for your husband that you are a lost cause. But you are. Three weeks and still no plan, no nothing. More fogbabble and defensive bullcrap. One does not need to be a "psychologist" and be there "in person" to see you have no plan and are not serious. A five year old can see that.
Why don't you quit talking smack and start making a REAL PLAN to save your marriage?
Where is your plan to leave your job and arrange your life so you aren't on an opposite shifts from your husband?
In other words you have NO extraordinary precautions and are just here talking smack. You havent done the first thing. Nothing. Just a lot of empty talk.
What about working in a manufacturing shop full of MEN on an opposite shift from your husband? When and where is that change taking place? And how about admitting that you are addicted to chasing men no matter where or how?
Mel - What have you done about this?
~ I was working in a shop as you described that Bh ask to work then he asked me to go where I am today. I have two female workers on my shift, one who I hang out with while @ work. I am not changing jobs cause financially it would be suicide. My actions are always accountable there. I make sure to not put myself in dangerous situations.
You - Nothing So your list is a WASTE unless it includes changing your job and lifestyle so you can't chase men. That means you get a job where you are surrounded by hens and can't pursue your favorite pastime.
Also, that was really cute that you answered that you got a new house. Did you screw the OM in your house? Did you sell THAT house?
Mel - what have you done about this? ~ No we will stay in this house and "over come the demons"
You - Nothing
Quote
No insulting others is not fundamental at all but there are times you cant bite your tongue and you feel like you cant get a word in edge wise cause they post to fast and IMO pick at some things that seem pointless. IMO
That is because your goal is chase c*ck and ours is to help you recover your marriage. So of course these things are pointless to someone who has no intention of changing and has no interest in saving her marriage. You have got away with talking bullcrap ["oh so sorry!! I will read Surviving an Affair!! Lets move on!" and fiddling around the edges for 15 years and this time your bullcrap is not working for you.
We are hoping at some point you actually get serious. Have seen no sign of that at all.
In my opinion, your H should divorce you because this is a lost cause. There is nothing here to save. Nothing...
~It's great to hear that you think I am and our M is a lost cause. I don't understand why you think I am not serious. Have you been here in person, called or message to ask what is going on or seen something here, or are you just observing the posts? Do you think as a psychologist your responses are getting to a root of a problem or are you spatting your opinion based of other WS?
MBers En mass - observing YOUR posts (you know, the ones YOU wrote - We see nothing.) Show us the money!
Hi All, Haven't been posting much lately, still trying to get a clear head and I felt that posting kept bringing me down. Feeling a lot better now.
I thought I would chime in here. I want to apologize for my WW, who did insult you all. This is one of the many things she needs to change about her, and I do believe she is working on this, though much slower than you all would like.
In her defense on the timing of the NC letter, I (despite your advice) did not want the letter sent prior to OM leaving my work. I was concerned it could create issues between OM and I, and that could impact our working relationship. I also had several thousand dollars worth items at OM's house ( I know that shouldn't be important, but it was to me) and was concerned I would never get those items back if things turned more south than they already were. OM's last day at work was yesterday, and I retrieved my things from his house last night. So, now it is time for NC letter.
Melody, You are correct my wife has been inflicted with the ME-ME-ME disease all her life. She plays the woe-is-me card way to much, as you can see in her posts.
She is starting to come around. She has acknowledged and accepted the fact that she has many issues, and is actually working on them. She has stopped pushing blame on everyone else and has accepted responsibility for what she did. You can see some of that in her apology letter, she did toss in maybe a little excuse or blame. Had she wrote that 3 weeks ago you would have seen how it was all my fault, OM W's fault, and OM's fault. She is coming around and I have seen some big changes.
I have stopped trying to fix this, and have put it back on her. I did not create this mess and told her she needs to step up and help me through it, and show me that she wants this marriage. I believe that is a better and more deserving approach.
As for a plan, she nor I understand what you mean by that. I do understand your concern about her work. That is not something she can up and quit, nor is it something we can change directly, it will take time. I think that is something we need to decide on when we both know for sure our marriage is actually going to survive. It is also a financial issue as there aren't many good paying jobs in the area.
Wow Susie Q you and a few others must have all the time in the world. It must be nice to be a stay at home women with few responsibilities and to sit at the computer picking over everyone's thread and responding that your trying to help... with your advice you make a great psychotherapist, who needs a degree!.
This is so very interesting to see you post this to someone who has been bending over backwards to help you, while you roll along your merry way, ignoring the hard questions that will make you a better person.
It's especially interesting that Susie hasn't told you to pound salt, and has moved on to help posters who will actually act on her advice. That's very patient of her. I'll have to try to be more like her.
Susie's a busy person who makes time to help people. You've never heard that the busy people are the ones who get things done? It's a truism.
As for a plan, she nor I understand what you mean by that. I do understand your concern about her work. That is not something she can up and quit, nor is it something we can change directly, it will take time. I think that is something we need to decide on when we both know for sure our marriage is actually going to survive. It is also a financial issue as there aren't many good paying jobs in the area.
Hi senn, she needs to decide on a plan to affair proof your marriage NOW. Not later. The fact that she has done absolutely nothing in 3 weeks time reveals that she is not serious. Her cocky attitude indicates a lack of remorse. She is in the habit of saying she is "sorry" after one of her affairs and then moving on with no actual work or repentence. She is miffed and surprised that is not working for her now.
Her snottiness to other posters is a reflection of her lack of seriousness and more importantly, a complete and utter lack of remorse. She is not in the least sorry, she is only sorry she got caught and sorry she has to bother with this. That attitude means you are not safe with her. It is only a matter of time before she is in another affair.
It takes no time at all to become WILLING and there is no sign of that here. SHE should be on here asking what she should do, and instead she is on here making excuses, talking smack and insulting posters.
She needs to back up her talk with a plan of action that STARTS by eliminating the greatest threat to your marriage, her JOB and her night shift work. She needs to get another job that is only with women and is on the day shift. That should be STEP ONE.
Why isn't she on here asking what to do, Senn? I will tell you why. She doesn't care. As far as I am concerned, she is a lost cause. A woman who refuses to take any real steps to change after having 6-7-8 affairs is dangerous. She is dangerous to you and to your children.
I have stopped trying to fix this, and have put it back on her. I did not create this mess and told her she needs to step up and help me through it, and show me that she wants this marriage. I believe that is a better and more deserving approach.
And I think she knows you won't do anything about this. She has done nothing to change and it is only a matter of time before her next affair. Why would she believe you would ever do anything about it? She has never suffered any consequences in the past. She believes, rightly, that she can continue to live a life chasing c*ck and get away with it.
She has no reason to change.
By the way, did you ever expose her affair to the repair shop guy's wife?
senn, let me put this another way. Having no plan is a plan to FAIL. There is no plan here other than her desire to sweep this all under the rug again. You can see where that has led.
The PLAN we refer to means making a plan to affair proof your marriage so this doesnt happen again. But we have explained to her and she just ignores it.
She is starting to come around. She has acknowledged and accepted the fact that she has many issues, and is actually working on them. She has stopped pushing blame on everyone else and has accepted responsibility for what she did. You can see some of that in her apology letter, she did toss in maybe a little excuse or blame. Had she wrote that 3 weeks ago you would have seen how it was all my fault, OM W's fault, and OM's fault. She is coming around and I have seen some big changes.
You are a BS who listens to what is said, instead of watching what is done.
If she came up to you tomorrow and said she accepted responsibility for being a robot - does that make her a robot?
And get back on to your own thread.
You cant apologise for your wife any more than you can put your arms and legs into hers, work her like a puppet and make her act with more repentance.
I have more to say, but I'll say it on your thread.
And stop reading each others' threads, too. Work on your own side of the fence.
As for a plan, she nor I understand what you mean by that. I do understand your concern about her work. That is not something she can up and quit, nor is it something we can change directly, it will take time. I think that is something we need to decide on when we both know for sure our marriage is actually going to survive. It is also a financial issue as there aren't many good paying jobs in the area.
Hi senn, she needs to decide on a plan to affair proof your marriage NOW. Not later. The fact that she has done absolutely nothing in 3 weeks time reveals that she is not serious. Her cocky attitude indicates a lack of remorse. She is in the habit of saying she is "sorry" after one of her affairs and then moving on with no actual work or repentence. She is miffed and surprised that is not working for her now.
Her snottiness to other posters is a reflection of her lack of seriousness and more importantly, a complete and utter lack of remorse. She is not in the least sorry, she is only sorry she got caught and sorry she has to bother with this. That attitude means you are not safe with her. It is only a matter of time before she is in another affair.
It takes no time at all to become WILLING and there is no sign of that here. SHE should be on here asking what she should do, and instead she is on here making excuses, talking smack and insulting posters.
She needs to back up her talk with a plan of action that STARTS by eliminating the greatest threat to your marriage, her JOB and her night shift work. She needs to get another job that is only with women and is on the day shift. That should be STEP ONE.
Why isn't she on here asking what to do, Senn? I will tell you why. She doesn't care. As far as I am concerned, she is a lost cause. A woman who refuses to take any real steps to change after having 6-7-8 affairs is dangerous. She is dangerous to you and to your children.
I'm sorry that I portray myself as "snottiness" but I find it a defense mechanism. It is easier to attack when feeling attacked. Obviously the job change isn't feebleness at this time and IMO lets move on to another issue.
The past A's are the past and we have moved on, dealing with the recent one. The stress I had made me greedy I guess. I want to learn from it and be a better person. Your words hurt and make me feel like I am a waste of a life! I know what I did was wrong and hurt so many. I know that you will never understand and it's easy for you to point a finger and spat "woe is me". How easy for you to judge when you have not spent time in my shoes. (Thank God) I really do want to work on me, us and M.
As for a plan, she nor I understand what you mean by that. I do understand your concern about her work. That is not something she can up and quit, nor is it something we can change directly, it will take time. I think that is something we need to decide on when we both know for sure our marriage is actually going to survive. It is also a financial issue as there aren't many good paying jobs in the area.
Hi senn, she needs to decide on a plan to affair proof your marriage NOW. Not later. The fact that she has done absolutely nothing in 3 weeks time reveals that she is not serious. Her cocky attitude indicates a lack of remorse. She is in the habit of saying she is "sorry" after one of her affairs and then moving on with no actual work or repentence. She is miffed and surprised that is not working for her now.
Her snottiness to other posters is a reflection of her lack of seriousness and more importantly, a complete and utter lack of remorse. She is not in the least sorry, she is only sorry she got caught and sorry she has to bother with this. That attitude means you are not safe with her. It is only a matter of time before she is in another affair.
It takes no time at all to become WILLING and there is no sign of that here. SHE should be on here asking what she should do, and instead she is on here making excuses, talking smack and insulting posters.
She needs to back up her talk with a plan of action that STARTS by eliminating the greatest threat to your marriage, her JOB and her night shift work. She needs to get another job that is only with women and is on the day shift. That should be STEP ONE.
Why isn't she on here asking what to do, Senn? I will tell you why. She doesn't care. As far as I am concerned, she is a lost cause. A woman who refuses to take any real steps to change after having 6-7-8 affairs is dangerous. She is dangerous to you and to your children.
I'm sorry that I portray myself as "snottiness" but I find it a defense mechanism. It is easier to attack when feeling attacked. Obviously the job change isn't feebleness at this time and IMO lets move on to another issue.
The job change should be a basic, non negotiable condition of your being allowed to remain in the marriage. Without it you are willing to endanger your husband. This is a tenet of the MB PLAN for recovery.If you want non MB advice, you're on the wrong web site.
The past A's are the past and we have moved on, dealing with the recent one. The stress I had made me greedy I guess. I want to learn from it and be a better person.
Nobody cheats through stress. They take bubble baths. Try showing us the money instead of talking about stress through ACTIONS. Your words hurt and make me feel like I am a waste of a life! I know what I did was wrong and hurt so many. I know that you will never understand and it's easy for you to point a finger and spat "woe is me". How easy for you to judge when you have not spent time in my shoes. (Thank God) I really do want to work on me, us and M.
I know that you will never understand and it's easy for you to point a finger and spat "woe is me". How easy for you to judge when you have not spent time in my shoes. (Thank God) I really do want to work on me, us and M.
Melody is an alcoholic. Now enjoying a long time sobriety. (26 years, is it?) She did things (before sobriety) that required she wear very nasty shoes indeed. No one knows better than a former nasty-shoe-wearer what is required to make a better life.
I'm sorry that I portray myself as "snottiness" but I find it a defense mechanism. It is easier to attack when feeling attacked.
I am sorry you choose to be snotty to people who are trying to help you. No one is "attacking" you.
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Obviously the job change isn't feebleness at this time and IMO lets move on to another issue.
No, we will NOT "move onto another issue" until you address and resolve this problem. This is a major problem that has to change in order to affair proof your marriage. So, don't try and sweep it under the rug.
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The past A's are the past and we have moved on, dealing with the recent one. The stress I had made me greedy I guess. I want to learn from it and be a better person.
Your "past" behavior is in the present which is why it keeps coming up. You haven't learned from your past mistakes as evidenced by the fact that you continue to make the same mistake over and over again.
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How easy for you to judge when you have not spent time in my shoes. (Thank God) I really do want to work on me, us and M.
Yes, everyone here can judge that what you did was wrong. We don't need to "spend time in your shoes" to judge right from wrong. Apparently you don't want to "work on me, us, and M" because you ARE NOT taking any actions.
sennswifeinpa, talk is cheap. If you want to change then you have to actually DO something.
[Obviously the job change isn't feebleness at this time and IMO lets move on to another issue.
Ok, this is where we start. First off, how many guys have you shagged at work? How many have you given blow jobs? It is clear you have a long history of chasing men where ever and whenever, so lets start with some honesty. A serial cheater in a job with mostly men is like a fox in a hen house.
The first step is to change your job to one where you are around women. Start coming up with solutions that can get you into a new environment on a day shift.
[font:Impact]A) Change cell phone number and give password & account access to your spouse. B) Change email account. C) Eliminate all social networking accounts (i.e., Face book, Classmates, My Space, etc.) D) Take a polygraph E) Make a copy of my vehicle keys and any other keys my spouse does not have and give to them (i.e., safe deposit boxes, business keys, storage cabinets/lockers, etc.) F) List out passwords for all business and personal computer logins, and any other passwords my spouse does not have access to. G) Give my spouse access to any banking/financial accounts, business and personal. H) Install software that tracks all internet use, giving my spouse administrative access. I) Install a webcam/security cameras for while at work that my spouse can access. J) I will contact an attorney that will work on my spouse�s behalf and write a post-nuptial agreement. K) Sell the house/purchase a new one. L) Sell any vehicle AP was in and replace them.[font:Impact]
-My husband can access my phone at any time, Changing the # has been discussed but hasn't been an issue yet. -We share an email address, and I don't use any others, and if I had he knows the password. -I had used FB haven't been on there we agreed that I would delete everyone but family. I haven't done so because I spend all of my time with husband, and not computer. -making an appointment -no need we share all of these items -ditto -I know he an use history and he may have other methods. not sure -not possible, work in manufac shop -not necessary, he and I both know I wouldn't take a thing from him. -just did that -no need
Seriously? This is what you didn't have time to post?
Clearly dishonesty is still an issue.
This is such a poor excuse for a EP plan for a serial cheater that I am speechless.
I am sorry that I dont have time to list them now but I will squeeze time out to list them before long.
Please do not use "time" as an excuse anymore. That's complete crap.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The astute observer will notice that if you add the 15 hours for quality family time to the 15 hours of undivided attention, you have just committed 30 hours a week. When you add 40 to 50 hours of work, how much time does that leave? If you need about 8.5 hours of sleep each night, you have about 28.5 hours left (168 total hours in a week minus 59.5 hours for sleeping minus 50 hours for work minus 15 hours for quality family time minus 15 hours for undivided attention equals 28.5 hours.)
After seven affairs, you should be thanking your lucky stars that your BH is even giving you chance to clean up this mess.
She was ready to pack up this AM, "because everybody here thinks were going to fail" I told her to go. I don't think I need to beg her to stay! I explained if you leave because of people here, you wanted to leave anyway, and they are giving you your reason.
Just think, instead of playing the drama queen you could have spent that time working on an affair proof marriage. I feel sorry for your husband that he has to deal with your crap.
I am going to fail because people think I am going to fail.
Sipa's wife - When you are willing to sacrifice your precious night shifts to make amends and commit to a full MB recovery plan suitable for a serial cheat WITHOUT SKIPPING ANY CHAPTERS We will sit up and take notice.
In other words you have NO extraordinary precautions and are just here talking smack. You havent done the first thing. Nothing. Just a lot of empty talk.
What about working in a manufacturing shop full of MEN on an opposite shift from your husband? When and where is that change taking place? And how about admitting that you are addicted to chasing men no matter where or how?
~ I was working in a shop as you described that Bh ask to work then he asked me to go where I am today. I have two female workers on my shift, one who I hang out with while @ work. I am not changing jobs cause financially it would be suicide. My actions are always accountable there. I make sure to not put myself in dangerous situations.
So your list is a WASTE unless it includes changing your job and lifestyle so you can't chase men. That means you get a job where you are surrounded by hens and can't pursue your favorite pastime.
Also, that was really cute that you answered that you got a new house. Did you screw the OM in your house? Did you sell THAT house?
~ No we will stay in this house and "over come the demons"
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As a FWH Been there-Done that-Got the T-shirt.
House was sold to leave the "Demons" behind..........
No insulting others is not fundamental at all but there are times you cant bite your tongue and you feel like you cant get a word in edge wise cause they post to fast and IMO pick at some things that seem pointless. IMO
That is because your goal is chase c*ck and ours is to help you recover your marriage. So of course these things are pointless to someone who has no intention of changing and has no interest in saving her marriage. You have got away with talking bullcrap ["oh so sorry!! I will read Surviving an Affair!! Lets move on!" and fiddling around the edges for 15 years and this time your bullcrap is not working for you.
We are hoping at some point you actually get serious. Have seen no sign of that at all.
In my opinion, your H should divorce you because this is a lost cause. There is nothing here to save. Nothing...
~It's great to hear that you think I am and our M is a lost cause. I don't understand why you think I am not serious. Have you been here in person, called or message to ask what is going on or seen something here, or are you just observing the posts? Do you think as a psychologist your responses are getting to a root of a problem or are you spatting your opinion based of other WS?
As a BH sold our lake home with the million dollar view and all the lake toys to go with it.
Made me sick thinking about living in the house I knew POSOM "polluted" with my XWW.
I did a polygraph. I changed my cell # and the only people who have my # are my husband and son. I am using radical honesty. I am printing my no contact letter now and going to mail it.
That's great, senn's wife. Now, how will you be arranging your life in a way where you won't be tempted to chase men anymore? For example, finding a job with all women, getting on the same shift as your husband so you can be off at the same time, etc. What is being done about that?
What about your flirting? What has been done about that?
What is being done to break your addiction to cheating?
I did a polygraph. I changed my cell # and the only people who have my # are my husband and son. I am using radical honesty. I am printing my no contact letter now and going to mail it.
Sounds great, just a quick reminder that it is your HUSBAND who mails the letter, not yourself.
Husband adjusted the letter and I whole heartedly agreed and it was mailed off today.
He had a bad day yesterday. It is so hard to see him like that. I wish I could go back in time and talk some sense into myself before heading down that path.
I want to go back to when we were at friends house and OM started messing with me. I wish I would have got up and woke H up said time to go. Before that I wish I could go back, smack myself and say what is it you think you are lacking. If you keep moving on this path you are going to make the biggest mistake of your life.
Did I mention that I recently found out that both of my parents are serial cheaters. How screwed up is that? How about if I'd known sooner maybe I could have learned from them to build boundaries. But I can't do the what if's... It's far to late for that.
When H is having his down days and says I don't know if we are going to make it. I get moments were I want to run into the arms of the OM. Of course I think it through more, then decide and know ~that would be STUPID! My brain thinks better then my heart. Half of my heart is so in love with H, the other half is a lump of crud that isn't sure from one day to the next want it wants. Mostly it's just numb...
Those moments for OM are growing farther away every day, but H will bring up something and ask repeated questions then it reminds me of what I felt and those feelings start to come back up. I hate talking about OM cause I don't want to think of him.
I want to work on us on our M. I didn't realize that I am a serial cheater. In fact I am still trying to come to terms with this. I guess in denile but the light bulb is flickering.
Those moments for OM are growing farther away every day, but H will bring up something and ask repeated questions then it reminds me of what I felt and those feelings start to come back up. I hate talking about OM cause I don't want to think of him.
Instead of focusing on yourself, how about focusing on rendering aide to your victim? This is not about you and your feelings, but about repairing the wounds you inflicted on your husband and your children.
What are you doing to help him heal? What are you doing to earn his forgiveness?
Why should he even consider staying married to you?
My H asked to try posting again and talk about what I am feeling. So I here I am.
I am posting since he asked, I am always affectionate towards him (with a blurp here and there) even when he is feeling down. I listen to him tell me how is feeling. I am doing what ever he asks.
He doesn't have to consider staying M. He could tell me to leave now, and I would leave and patiently wait to see if he would want me back.
He is my human rock. I can't function normal without him. I can't make rash decisions. I tend to let my feelings get the best of me. We talk things over and he will help me get a better understanding of people and situations.
I like to make and keep him happy. I want him to be able to feel secure with me.
I like to make and keep him happy. I want him to be able to feel secure with me.
That is a good first step. But I am concerned when you say things like "when he asks me questions about the OM, I feel like running into his arms." ARe you saying stuff like that to your husband? Because your husband has a right to ask you all the questions he wants. You owe him the answer without threatening him.
Making threats and saying things like that does not help your husband heal.
And what is this about making angry outbursts at him? How does that help SEM heal from your assault?
Yes I tell him how I feel. I am not threatening him. I have nor would I say I will do that. I told him that bringing it up sometimes is like stirring up those feelings that I had.
I did tell him that I felt I could go to the other house for the weekend to give him space, but lost interest in that thought when a coworker inquired about him coming back to work with us.
I don't have many angry out burst, Usually I just shut up and listen, then he will ask if I am listening. I will say yeah. Then he will ask if I have a response. I usually don't know what to say, so I tell him that I understand or if I don't can he help me to understand.
Those moments for OM are growing farther away every day, but H will bring up something and ask repeated questions then it reminds me of what I felt and those feelings start to come back up. I hate talking about OM cause I don't want to think of him.
Instead of focusing on yourself, how about focusing on rendering aide to your victim? This is not about you and your feelings, but about repairing the wounds you inflicted on your husband and your children.
What are you doing to help him heal? What are you doing to earn his forgiveness?
Why should he even consider staying married to you?
I did something last night that really helped put some things on this site in perspective. I stayed up later than I should have because I found emails from my wife (to me) from right after her affair. over three years ago. Her song and dance hasn't changed. She has demonstrated what I am about to post over the last 3 years. She has modeled the MB wife to me, but more importantly, what a biblical wife is.
She didn't think one thought for OM except for when I brought it up. Not one thought of the A was "good". There was no longing over what she did. The effects of what she had done hit her, just a week into recovery. Here's what she wrote me about 2 months after Dday:
Dearest CV, It is a hard thing when God shows you the depth of sin your life. It is especially difficult when you've told yourself so many lies. As i have been examining my heart. I am often shocked at what I find. There is a deep, deep sadness each time I realize that I have let fear be my guide instead of trust in the Lord. Out of fear of my own heart, I have allowed deceit to continue by refusing to look at the truth. I am repulsed by my own sin and terrified of losing you. Each time I see a new area of sin that needs to be dealt with I cringe.
I am completely undone by my sin and overwhelmingly ashamed by the depth of wickedness in my heart. None the less, I have a great hope in Christ! A hope that as I surrender each lie (made knowingly or unknowingly) He is conforming me to the image of His likeness. I am so sorry that my sanctification is so painful for you. I pray that you will hold on to the hope that you have in Christ and that He will be your strength to stick it out with me to the end.
I am terribly aware that you have been enduring copious amounts of heart ache because of me and for me. Thank you for upholding your duties as my shepherd and husband. I hope that I have begun to be the Godly wife that you need and deserve. I will not relent in my pursuit of righteousness. I am committed to becoming the wife that God created me to be...your wife...faithful, honest, loving in all ways, upholding and helping.
If you choose to endure with me I promise that you will not regret it.
I love you, Grace
The reason I post it is simple. Her words and thoughts are forward thinking. She is not reminiscing about the past and what she had with OM(s), her thoughts are for healing and restoration. She is wanting healing and wholeness. What does not show in the letter is her actions. They weren't just words. She DEMONSTRATED what she wrote. She saw the depth of what she did and what the roots of her problems were and actively worked to overcome them.
The problem is that you think what you did had some kind of plus... A benefit to it if you will. Trust me, there wasn't any. All it did was get you to where you are now. Not good. Everything the OM(s) provided you was a lie. Disgusting dirty filthy lies... How could one miss that?
Senn's wife, it is good that you came back to post.
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When H is having his down days and says I don't know if we are going to make it. I get moments were I want to run into the arms of the OM.
When your H is having the down days, you have to ask him how you can make him feel better, ask him what can you do to make him feel better and then do it. Also, offer some distraction, give him a hug, hold him, make him a coffee/tea/hot chocolate, ask him to come and walk with you. These ACTIONS will HELP him tremendously and also help you to FORGET about this POSOM and forget about your wayward feelings. Keeping yourself busy around your husband can be your way out of the fog, believe me.
Yes I tell him how I feel. I am not threatening him. I have nor would I say I will do that. I told him that bringing it up sometimes is like stirring up those feelings that I had.
Don't tell him you feel like running into the OM's arms. That is cruel and stupid and does nothing to help him recover. If your goal is to help him, then help him. Don't hurt him. Don't discourage him from asking questions. He needs his questions answered without you making manipulative little threats.
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I did tell him that I felt I could go to the other house for the weekend to give him space, but lost interest in that thought when a coworker inquired about him coming back to work with us.
Doesn't help your marriage to go away alone - and unwatched - over the weekend. That would do nothing to help him trust you.
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I don't have many angry out burst, Usually I just shut up and listen, then he will ask if I am listening. I will say yeah. Then he will ask if I have a response. I usually don't know what to say, so I tell him that I understand or if I don't can he help me to understand.
Thats good, but that is not what he said. He said you had been having angry outbursts. Hopefully you understand that won't help him heal.
We usually go to the bedroom and snuggle on his down days or everyday if we can. I do ask him what can I do to help. And yes I do keep myself very Busy. Thanks so much.
Mel, I have only said it once. and the thought of going over to the other house was a thought I don't think I could have if I wanted to. As for the angry outburst~ those stupid monthly cycles aren't helping!!!
We just text-ed each other and I told what I was doing and he said" I told you it would help. tehe tehe"
If you were able to sit across the table with yourself, what specifically would you have said?
.......... I wish I could go back, smack myself and say what is it you think you are lacking. If you keep moving on this path you are going to make the biggest mistake of your life.
Have you identified what you think you were lacking?
I had no clue where to start until I started coaching with the Harley's and reading everything I could get my hands on from their books and from this site.
Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers was our coach, and a mighty wonderful one I might add... She showed me I was lacking nothing. I just needed a map and some instructions on how to use what I already possessed.
The Marriage Builders Plan was the map and her coaching would give us the instructions.
Read these First FIVE highlighted articles and really study the FIFTH one (Which is; The Four Rules To Guide Marital Recovery After An Affair -->Click HERE ) and I think you may see the things you wish you could go back and explain to yourself if you were able to.
Click the links in the articles after you've read each of them completely and then go back and re-read them again.
If you truly want to recover this marriage, study these, they were part of the road map necessary to build a marriage after infidelity.
I'm sure you already have the ability to care for and protect your husband and your marriage, you've just chosen to not do these things in the past, and now you just need fully engage in the act of using the road map of The MB Program that is now available at your finger tips. Like me, you no longer have an excuse to not do these things!
We usually go to the bedroom and snuggle on his down days or everyday if we can. I do ask him what can I do to help. And yes I do keep myself very Busy. Thanks so much.
and from what I read from your husband's thread that when he has his down moments you are argumentative and not nice to him,
I understand that you are lying to the board and still don't have a clue what you've done to your H and that you just don't care about his feelings and well-being whatsoever.
So it was a bad weekend. H, son and I went for dinner wanted a few groceries, H was too tired, so went home. Came home I was in the mood for soda and there was none so I pouted. I wanted to watch Bronco game H and son were playing PlayStation so I went to bedroom to watch. Got in trouble cause "I was pouting"
Sunday H worked on house while I slept. I got up and need to grocery shop. H & I went shopping. He has a habit of looking at "manly items". That's good and all so I went to grocery isles. H came up asking where my list was and for what ever reason I had already been brewing and I snarled. "on line cause I thought we were shopping else where". H got defensive and said "you never mentioned that." I said "you're right I didn't' continued shopping just getting more perturbed, so he got more perturbed.
I think I just needed a soda fix cause I had calmed down after a few drinks. Went home to make dinner, frozen pizza is fast and while that cooked I made a dip. H got upset cause I was "pissen" around cause he wanted to watch a movie together. Great so did I but I wanted to finish dinner then watch the movie. Tried to make up for the bad evening in the bedroom, BUST.
So I feel like I'm trying. I do EVERYTHING he asks but every time I do I feel like he makes up more rules.
I honestly think that he figured I would have failed the poly and it would have been the "reason" to call it quits. Since it came out better than he expected then he has to come up with more "hoops to jump through" which I am doing. I do this because I want to show him that I will do anything.
Tell me, does it seem ok that the OM's wife will call or text H to ask him how he is doing etc. H did tell her that the letter was in the mail. But it hurts that he can talk to her and I can't. Or How about that the woman that used to work with H who I was jealous of because he would talk a little about her then quit talking about until the day she got fired happened to be our D day and H told her everything about the A. And that she called him yesterday, but there only friends and that he doesn't think she is attractive.
If I bring this up then I am "taking blame of myself" But I do feel hurt and think that I should be able to talk about it. I didn't know until after my A that she sat on his lap one day and H just "froze" didn't know what to do. And that she offered him sex, H " got white as a ghost" And it's ok for him to talk to her and tell her wants going on.
Do you know other than this site and my mother I haven't told a soul! I have NO ONE to confide in, but he has OM"S wife, a co-worker, an ex-female co-worker and a friend or two.
What I did was wrong, I am not trying to justify myself but I in my heart I felt like I was loosing him in the spring of last year and I have felt jealousy towards this woman I don't know, and a few other women. In my heart I feel like H is hem hawing around on whether he wants to make M work or not.
I am trying and yes I got pissy my mistake but it's hard not to be angry when he is angry over something that isn't worth being angry over!
So it was a bad weekend. H, son and I went for dinner wanted a few groceries, H was too tired, so went home. Came home I was in the mood for soda and there was none so I pouted. I wanted to watch Bronco game H and son were playing PlayStation so I went to bedroom to watch. Got in trouble cause "I was pouting"
Sunday H worked on house while I slept. I got up and need to grocery shop. H & I went shopping. He has a habit of looking at "manly items". That's good and all so I went to grocery isles. H came up asking where my list was and for what ever reason I had already been brewing and I snarled. "on line cause I thought we were shopping else where". H got defensive and said "you never mentioned that." I said "you're right I didn't' continued shopping just getting more perturbed, so he got more perturbed.
I think I just needed a soda fix cause I had calmed down after a few drinks. Went home to make dinner, frozen pizza is fast and while that cooked I made a dip. H got upset cause I was "pissen" around cause he wanted to watch a movie together. Great so did I but I wanted to finish dinner then watch the movie. Tried to make up for the bad evening in the bedroom, BUST.
So I feel like I'm trying. I do EVERYTHING he asks but every time I do I feel like he makes up more rules.
I honestly think that he figured I would have failed the poly and it would have been the "reason" to call it quits. Since it came out better than he expected then he has to come up with more "hoops to jump through" which I am doing. I do this because I want to show him that I will do anything.
Tell me, does it seem ok that the OM's wife will call or text H to ask him how he is doing etc. H did tell her that the letter was in the mail. But it hurts that he can talk to her and I can't. Or How about that the woman that used to work with H who I was jealous of because he would talk a little about her then quit talking about until the day she got fired happened to be our D day and H told her everything about the A. And that she called him yesterday, but there only friends and that he doesn't think she is attractive.
If I bring this up then I am "taking blame of myself" But I do feel hurt and think that I should be able to talk about it. I didn't know until after my A that she sat on his lap one day and H just "froze" didn't know what to do. And that she offered him sex, H " got white as a ghost" And it's ok for him to talk to her and tell her wants going on.
Do you know other than this site and my mother I haven't told a soul! I have NO ONE to confide in, but he has OM"S wife, a co-worker, an ex-female co-worker and a friend or two.
What I did was wrong, I am not trying to justify myself but I in my heart I felt like I was loosing him in the spring of last year and I have felt jealousy towards this woman I don't know, and a few other women. In my heart I feel like H is hem hawing around on whether he wants to make M work or not.
I am trying and yes I got pissy my mistake but it's hard not to be angry when he is angry over something that isn't worth being angry over!
Senn'sWife,
Remember that horrible roller-coaster of emotions you guys went through after the first time he found out? He's there again. Right now, focus on not having AO's with him and all the boundary issues along with your EP's. Right now he is very sensitive to your emotional responses and has to relearn to control himself. Not making excuses, I'm sure it will be mentioned to him on his thread. My wife didn't have anyone but me to talk to about her A either. In retrospect, I think it was a huge mistake. We should have confided in friends so she had a same-sex friend to talk with about how she was feeling. I would suggest that you talk with someone who is aware of your A that is same sex so you are not feeling like you are just kind of out there by yourself as you work towards recovery.
I'm also sure someone will remind him about confiding in non family opposite sex friendships too.
Have you read the book, Love Busters, by Dr. Harley?
This book teaches couples how to protect each other from behaviors and attitudes that destroys the others love for them.
A must read if you want to recover your marriage!
Have you read the book, His Needs, Her Needs, by Dr. Harley?
This is another MUST READ! This book teaches couples how to care for one another in the ways each spouse loves.
Senninpa's wife,
If you don't start taking some of the lead in this recovery it will never get off the ground.
As a friend once told me, "Get off the pity pot and start doing the things necessary to build a great marriage before you end up just flushing it away".
I'd like to say more, but I don't want to take away from HPB's excellent advice. I strongly encourage you to answer his questions (don't treat them rhetorically), and follow his suggestions for a recovered marriage.
I am encouraged that you are here posting, and I am seeing evidence that you are willing to work on fixing this. There are going to be many, many more changes in your future if you are to fix this. You and he have probably not discovered them all, yet.
You've got one of the best posting to you -- follow his advice!
(HerPapaBear is on my watchlist -- I read all his posts to everybody. I never know when they will help me! )
I am thinking that my lack of boundaries comes from the Attention I get from men and beings I'm a people pleaser I couldn't bring myself to say "NO" when it went to far. SO the best way to stop from getting to put up boundaries. Physical boundaries are easy. I have a bubble it no one is allowed near my bubble! But I love to smile. I smile at everyone and everything. Does this action start a ball to roll?
I can say that when I cheated, H was very busy working and I believe I wanted attention but went looking it for it in the wrong direction. So what kind of person needs constant attention? Cause I must thrive on it. Is it possible that I when I seek my H's attention and I feel like I am not getting it that I would go find it w/another man???? God I hope not. this is sick!
Everyone talks about a job change. So here are the details. I work 10p -6a. There are five guys on my shift one being my boss who is recently M and is Wesleyan. I am the second oldest person on my shift. The guys are like 4yrs older than my son so that is just creepy to think anything of the sort! There are two women I work with also. One works part time and I am usually joined at her hip, the other is a year younger.We talk but we haven't clicked. Everybody but my shift knows my H and we both agree that I honestly don't think that they would cross that line. My work place is a gossip haven and nothing gets by, so that a mighty deterrence. Finding a decent paying job in our area is beyond difficult. You have to have the right connections and know the right people other wise work is always available at fast food or telemarketing! IMO this seems to be a non attractive environment to chase men.
You and I both know that a) you are not going to be honest about chasing men at work if the spirit moves you and b) if you do chase men at work, the coworkers will do everything to make sure your husband doesn't find out. So don't try and sell me that crap. I work at a plant and I KNOW OF situtions where a man's wife was sleeping around at work. TO THIS DAY HE DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT IT.
Working with men like you do is a risky environment that ignores the dangers.
The fact that you don't understand this is high risk keeps your marriage at risk. You STILL do not understand the risks and have not made one single move to remove the biggest risk.
The second biggest problem is that you work opposite shifts so you can't sleep together at night and have the spend your off time together. This is the kind of independent lifestyle that leads to affairs. But you already know that...
Second paragraph looks alot like blame shifting to me. Im sure it does to senninpa also
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
ok I'm off the pity pot_
I am thinking that my lack of boundaries comes from the Attention I get from men and beings I'm a people pleaser I couldn't bring myself to say "NO" when it went to far. SO the best way to stop from getting to put up boundaries. Physical boundaries are easy. I have a bubble it no one is allowed near my bubble! But I love to smile. I smile at everyone and everything. Does this action start a ball to roll?
I can say that when I cheated, H was very busy working and I believe I wanted attention but went looking it for it in the wrong direction. So what kind of person needs constant attention? Cause I must thrive on it. Is it possible that I when I seek my H's attention and I feel like I am not getting it that I would go find it w/another man???? God I hope not. this is sick!
I am thinking that my lack of boundaries comes from the Attention I get from men and beings I'm a people pleaser I couldn't bring myself to say "NO" when it went to far.
Your lack of boundaries comes from being AROUND MEN. You know under what conditions you are tempted and you haven't changed them. I just don't know how many more ways to say this. You could have an affair with any one of the men you work with. None of the reasons you gave will stop you.
If you want to establish boudaries, you will change your life so you are not around men.. Period.
I moved this to your thread, it's easier to respond here than on mortarmans thread.
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
I believe she is just like SusieQ's STBXH.... She's an admiration junkie!
What is an admiration junkie? Is it the same as wanting and liking attention?
Until she lists out her EP's, just as I've described on the EP thread and actually puts her defensiveness away, she's going to be seen for what she is delivering..... Half measures!
I have listed EP. Are they not there or do you not like what you see? I have changed my cell #. I don't use FB and we took it off the computer altogether. I call H as soon as I get off from work and as soon as I wake in the after noon, or where ever I go. He has access to my email my phone my vehicle. I have done a poly. I don't hang out with any friends., too busy driving kids around, make dinner,then off to work. I have no time for an A nor do I want to.
As Mortarman described, BOUNDARIES - IN STONE!
I find it bothersome that some don't think I am trying. I may not post them here but IMO I have taken measures and I must do more! Tell me what I am doing wrong? Cause I am bashing my head trying and making serious changes!
Most waywards have this ranked as their number one or number two most important need.
The issue with most waywards, they allow others to meet this need on a regular basis.
You have seen this in your own life as well.
Your EP's/boundaries are what you put in place to prevent anyone else from meeting this need.
One obvious issue that we see is, you've allowed other men, including the ones you work with, to be in the habit of meeting this need for you and you've come to rely upon your need being met this way. Regrefully this is common for most waywards, but even more of an issue for multiple offending waywards. This is why some posters are pushing you so hard to change jobs, they know from your record that staying in this atmosphere is going to be equivalent to an alcoholic trying to stay sober while working as a bartender.
I find it bothersome that some don't think I am trying. I may not post them here but IMO I have taken measures and I must do more! Tell me what I am doing wrong? Cause I am bashing my head trying and making serious changes!
Your husband asked me the question about what you needed to do.
I answered him very clearly.
Please read my thread on EP's again. You're missing some important parts of the equation.
What are you missing??
You still don't see that listing out ALL your EP's is a gift to your husband.... It's part of your "Just Compensation" to him....
Why do I say you are defensive??
Because you still want to argue, instead of thinking about what we ask and just answering the questions in a sincere manner.
I can say that when I cheated, H was very busy working and I believe I wanted attention but went looking it for it in the wrong direction.
That's accurate, and obvious, and why you must incorporate EP's
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
So what kind of person needs constant attention?
I hope it's obvious that you are describing yourself.
You have a high need for admiration.
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
Is it possible that I when I seek my H's attention and I feel like I am not getting it that I would go find it w/another man???? God I hope not. this is sick!
What's sick?
What's sick is allowing men, other than your husband, to meet this need!
Yes, it's emotional adultery every time you let this happen.
Yes, people pleasing & flirting get's your need for admiration met. And Yes, it's also emotional adultery.
Is this making any sense? Is this clear to you or are you still confused about this in some way?
Please know, I'm not asking these questions in a confrontational manner, they are sincere questions being asked in a calm manner.
I have a lot to say but it is too much to try and type on my phone right now. I'm asking you to please do two things. Read my forum "What to do next" and think about how you ripped your husbands soul out more than one time.
I am also a WS. Until you stop making excuses and start making changes, you will never learn. Your husband will only be able to take so much before you break him mentally and emotionally. Or in my case, turns to someone else to deal with the pain.
I was you a month ago, in major denial. I felt horrible for what I had done but did not know how to make the changes with in myself and my marriage. I wanted to blame someone other than myself. You have been given the gift of knowledge, skills, honesty, and perspective from people who have "been there, done that" yet you refuse to listen.
Has anyone close to you ever died? Do you remember how empty you felt inside? How you were not sure if life could go on without them? Everytime you cheated on your husband a part of him died but so did a part of you, the woman he loved and trusted.
Please think about what I am saying. I am not judging you, I was you!
Until you stop making excuses and start making changes, you will never learn. Your husband will only be able to take so much before you break him mentally and emotionally. Or in my case, turns to someone else to deal with the pain.
In my case, it wasn't just my infidelity that broke my H. It was trickle-truth. I fear in yours, it is going to be this continued vagueness to your EPs and excuse-making.
You work with men, and you also say that you "need constant attention." Do you understand why posters here cannot then let your work environment drop?
It doesn't matter who the men are, or how long you have worked with them. Until you make fundamental changes in yourself and how you interact with men, you are not safe for senn.
I have pretty much always worked in male-dominated environments. I always believed I had strong boundaries. My A was not with someone I worked with, but the aftermath has made me hyper-aware of the interactions I have with the opposite sex (as well as made me a pretty good observer of other peoples' interactions). A lot of what you may think is "harmless" is extremely inappropriate and dangerous behavior.
I was absolutely horrible at recovery until I found MB, and even then I had my stumbles. My M has not recovered and likely won't, and I wonder sometimes if my H could have recovered had things happened differently - if he'd found MB and exposed my A in the beginning, if we'd started recovery without my lying to him for months, etc. I'll never know. Obviously, the safest bet would be for me to have never played the wh*re for a man not my husband, but I can go back and change nothing.
You have to get serious about recovery and YOU are going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting. If senn decides you are safe and wants to recover your M, then you won't have to do that heavy lifting forever.
You committed adultery, and you have to bear the consequences of your actions. For you, that may mean finding a new job. Put yourself in my shoes for a sec. If my H came to me today, and told me that he would fully recommit to the M, that he would meet my ENs, that he would look me in the eyes when we made love and kiss me goodbye in the mornings, that he would hold my hand when we say the blessing before meals, on the condition that I quit my job: I would give my two weeks' notice today. Get it?
If my H came to me today, and told me that he would fully recommit to the M, that he would meet my ENs, that he would look me in the eyes when we made love and kiss me goodbye in the mornings, that he would hold my hand when we say the blessing before meals, on the condition that I quit my job: I would give my two weeks' notice today. Get it?
The issue here is that SPW believes (through bluff, or tears, or from historical experience - after all, this is NOT her first rodeo) that she can extract those conditions from BH without making the concessions. Sadly, SPW is fully inculcated with the "It won't happen to me; I'm special" philosophy in which the full burden of punishment to her has been avoided for years.
So, here's another Good/Bad/Ugly scenario to be resolved:
Good - SPW steps up to her responsibility and leaves her male-infected job.
Bad - SPW does not do what must be done and BH gets disgusted and bails.
Ugly - SPW does not do what must be done and BH hasn't the fortitude to follow through. (This is SPW's hope.)
So, all we can do is advise, watch and record the results.
although changing jobs is something we se as a necessity, her BS has said that he will not accept her leaving her job unless she has another job lined up first.
although changing jobs is something we se as a necessity, her BS has said that he will not accept her leaving her job unless she has another job lined up first.
Just wanted to note that she has not made any effort whatsoever to change jobs. Or anything else as far as I can see. She doesn't even understand or accept the necessity.
although changing jobs is something we se as a necessity, her BS has said that he will not accept her leaving her job unless she has another job lined up first.
Just wanted to note that she has not made any effort whatsoever to change jobs. Or anything else as far as I can see. She doesn't even understand or accept the necessity.
I know Mel, but until her BS asks for this, all we are doing is beating a dead horse....
although changing jobs is something we se as a necessity, her BS has said that he will not accept her leaving her job unless she has another job lined up first.
Just wanted to note that she has not made any effort whatsoever to change jobs. Or anything else as far as I can see. She doesn't even understand or accept the necessity.
I know Mel, but until her BS asks for this, all we are doing is beating a dead horse....
But it is not a dead horse. It is an impediment to their recovery. There is no point in discussing anything else if they don't even understand the importance of changing the environment. I don't know what else we would talk about to them if they haven't lifted a finger to take step one. Thats like telling an alcoholic to study the 12 steps while he sits in the bar every day.
They don't GET IT. They still do not comprehend the necessity of changing the environment that led to the affair. I don't see how we can move forward until they GET IT. They don't GET IT.
although changing jobs is something we se as a necessity, her BS has said that he will not accept her leaving her job unless she has another job lined up first.
Just wanted to note that she has not made any effort whatsoever to change jobs. Or anything else as far as I can see. She doesn't even understand or accept the necessity.
I know Mel, but until her BS asks for this, all we are doing is beating a dead horse....
Her BH does not need to ask for this. And what her BH is asking for is a BH that does not know what he is asking for.
Why do you think the phrase of Aesop's, 620-564 BC, be careful of what you ask for is still spoken today?
A BS does not need permission to expose. A WS does not need permission to end an affair, send NC letter, go NC. These are things that must be done.
Copied the quote below from the multiple affair thread.
Note what's highlighted in red.....
The BS has made his position clear. Right or wrong, he lives with decision.
I lieu of Senninpa's decision, I'd hope to see Senninpa's wife sending resume's out continually and seeking a job as if her life depended on it...
Originally Posted by senninpa
AS for EPs and affair proofing our marriage, with the exception of the job situation we have gone leaps and bounds in this area. As I am seeing it, I am unable to continue any discussion or participation on this forum without her job being the focal point of the continued bashing I am receiving.
I'm sure I will hear the "We did it and it all worked out", but I will say this again; I cannot encourage or permit my WW to leave her job until there is an available position that will continue to at least keep us above water. WE Just spent our ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS buying this house, we have two houses that we are paying mortgages, utilities, and insurance on. We are broke, and are just staying afloat. WE are trying to sell one house, but as everyone in the world knows, houses aren't selling. WE don't have the money at this point in our lives to just up and quite a job in an area that doesn't have a lot of jobs available. Now it would be easy to suggest to someone that that would be the best thing for them, but sit in my chair and then tell me how easy that decision would be. I am walking a tightrope here and I can't make rash decisions.
If you think my attitude is to save what I have over the marriage, you aren't to far off.
If we put ourselves in a position that I have to take a second job to make up the difference, would that be better? How about we get to the point we start loosing a car, then the house, would our marriage come out better. If our marriage fails and we lose everything, as many do, so what, at least we tried. If we lose everything to save the marriage, The marriage would almost certainly fail, as currently there isn't much of a marriage to save.
I have taken this advice, and we are taking steps toward changing our working arrangements, either I will work with her, or she will find another job, but that will not happen overnight, and to continue to toss the "you haven't done anything" bs at me is getting old.
I lieu of Senninpa's decision, I'd hope to see Senninpa's wife sending resume's out continually and seeking a job as if her life depended on it...
I am not disagreeing with you. However, they have no intention of taking any steps to get her out of there. They don't think it is a problem, which is why nothing has been done. They have taken NO STEPS to remedy this situation.
She is not looking for a job and doesn't understand that it is a problem to work with all men and work on an opposite shift frmo her husband. They don't even the spend the nights together. The affair happened because while her H was working, she was OFF work free to chase men all day. In that environment, she has actually had TWO affairs. She did his best friend in their home and also had a fling with their MARRIED car repair man.
Did you know they don't even spend the nights together? She goes to work at 10pm and he goes to work in the mornings.
H tried to get back in but they returned with a different shift meaning 2nd which defeats the purpose so unless I can get on first then he could get on 3rd shift. I have been praying to be on first shift since the day I started.
Living in the sticks is very difficult finding a decent job let alone one that pays well. We live over two hours away from any big city.
I understand what you are saying about the environment at work. Call it an excuse all you want. But there are far and few jobs with only women around here. I can think of one Curves.. any others????? Please don't mention a church because we already know someone who left her husband from someone from her church. And to stay home would be grand if only it was financially sound.
I've been reading your story for awhile. First, I must say I envy you. You actually have a chance at having your marriage succeed in spite of all the trials and tribulations you've encountered. You see, I've lost my family because my H decided that it wasn't important enough to him. Ask me what I would be willing to sacrifice to have the same opportunity as you have. If you could make it happen, I would personally write you the balance of my bank account. I would quit my job tomorrow. I would move across the world. I would do whatever is asked of me because my family is my life, nothing else matters because it's just STUFF.
I have to ask you what you would do tomorrow if you couldn't work. Imagine your child with a terminal illness, maybe even yourself. What if there was no job? There is no doubt in my mind you would find a way to make it work. How do you feel about your M?
The problem here is the same for all, only the perspective changes. You aren't making excuses, you just haven't decided your M is your priority, therefore your decisions are based on the priorities you have set. You and your H have decided that all the other STUFF is more important than your M. There is a big difference between can't and won't.
I sit here in my huge house with all the luxuries of life, money in the bank, a well paying job and ALONE (with my DS). I would trade it all (not DS!) and live in my car if my H was at my side and to have my family intact. How long would I hesitate in making this decision? About 5 secs. But you see, my perspective is different from yours, my family is my life.
It's a perspective to think about. I'm so sorry and my heart breaks to hear this cause this could be us at any time. Can I say it would be like comparing oranges to apples. If I had terminal ill family member I imagine in our community there are fund-raisers like spaghetti dinners and bake sales to help out financially.
As for the rest of our STUFF, your right we probably could sell our cars for an older late models. I would fear that an older car would break down between his hour to work and an hour back.
We bought our dream house that has been in his family for two generations. So I guess we are working on our M through our house. Your perspective is something to certainly think hard about, and thank you for sharing it with me.
H tried to get back in but they returned with a different shift meaning 2nd which defeats the purpose so unless I can get on first then he could get on 3rd shift. I have been praying to be on first shift since the day I started.
Living in the sticks is very difficult finding a decent job let alone one that pays well. We live over two hours away from any big city.
I understand what you are saying about the environment at work. Call it an excuse all you want. But there are far and few jobs with only women around here. I can think of one Curves.. any others????? Please don't mention a church because we already know someone who left her husband from someone from her church. And to stay home would be grand if only it was financially sound.
Start a business together with your husband. Or sell the house and move to the area with better job opportunities.
Are you actually looking for another and more suitable job for you right now or not?
It's a perspective to think about. I'm so sorry and my heart breaks to hear this cause this could be us at any time. Can I say it would be like comparing oranges to apples. If I had terminal ill family member I imagine in our community there are fund-raisers like spaghetti dinners and bake sales to help out financially.
NO, you cannot say it's like comparing apples to oranges...
You need to re-read her post.... You've missed the point entirely.
On a different note; There are at least 75 unanswered questions on your thread.
I would like to know if you have any interest in actually answering any of them?
2H4M & tst are right - it is a question of priorities.
My H is back home with me, at least for the present. We have the big, beautiful house...but does it make sense when I say that it's not a home anymore? It's just a place. It's just full of STUFF. And all that stuff will never make you happy. It will never fill the hole inside you - or senn, for that matter.
H and I are living on one income now, not b/c of choice, but b/c he lost his job last fall. I have a FT job and I picked up PT work that I am able to do from home. I realize that's not an option for everyone, but there are ways to figure this out. I sell stuff we no longer need on craigslist when I need some quick cash.
It's not only your work environment, but the fact that you work opposite shifts, b/c that cuts into your UA time. Trust me, you need that UA time to fall in love with each other again. When you do not get that UA time together, the in-love feelings will begin to disappear.
I don't have much else to add, and I kinda feel like I am beating a dead horse on the topic of your work environment/hours, but I feel like you and senn have a chance *IF* you are willing to do the work, b/c right now, he's on the boards, he's posting, he's willing...once he's no longer willing, you just might end up like me, and trust me, it is not where you want to be.
2H4M & tst are right - it is a question of priorities.
My H is back home with me, at least for the present. We have the big, beautiful house...but does it make sense when I say that it's not a home anymore? It's just a place. It's just full of STUFF. And all that stuff will never make you happy. It will never fill the hole inside you - or senn, for that matter.
H and I are living on one income now, not b/c of choice, but b/c he lost his job last fall. I have a FT job and I picked up PT work that I am able to do from home. I realize that's not an option for everyone, but there are ways to figure this out. I sell stuff we no longer need on craigslist when I need some quick cash.
It's not only your work environment, but the fact that you work opposite shifts, b/c that cuts into your UA time. Trust me, you need that UA time to fall in love with each other again. When you do not get that UA time together, the in-love feelings will begin to disappear.
I don't have much else to add, and I kinda feel like I am beating a dead horse on the topic of your work environment/hours, but I feel like you and senn have a chance *IF* you are willing to do the work, b/c right now, he's on the boards, he's posting, he's willing...once he's no longer willing, you just might end up like me, and trust me, it is not where you want to be.
Time for a thread jack:
YOUR BH IS LIVING AT HOME! How did I miss that point. You better be plan A'ing your butt off.
No relationship talk, but make his have a home life that he won't want to miss out on. Get some family activies going. He refuses to join in do them any way to let him see the good times he can join in on. He may not act receptive but he is looking to see if the changes you talked about are being done. And, done consistently.
YOUR BH IS LIVING AT HOME! How did I miss that point. You better be plan A'ing your butt off.
No relationship talk, but make his have a home life that he won't want to miss out on. Get some family activies going. He refuses to join in do them any way to let him see the good times he can join in on. He may not act receptive but he is looking to see if the changes you talked about are being done. And, done consistently.
sorry for the t/j, SIPW - yes, H moved back home after my Dad died at the end of August. I posted about it over on my thread. I think at first it was to help with the kids, but then a month later he lost his job and the stepmom (who he was living with) is letting her house go into foreclosure and moving in with her sister. He has made it clear that he did not come home to recover the marriage, and my attempts to meet needs are rebuffed, for the most part. I'm feeling resentful and depressed, most of the time, for lots of reasons, not only our M and my unmet needs, but grief over Dad's death and dealing with my increased family responsibilities, job stress, etc. I still maintain EP's, b/c I have learned over time that they are not solely to help H feel safe, but maintaining EP's and healthy boundaries are for me, too, and ensuring that I am the woman-wife-mother I want to be.
I prayed for walls & doors (thanx, MM) and the following morning received this email from Divorce Care:
Quote
When attempting to reconcile with your spouse, the reality is that what you desire to happen may not happen.
"Reconciliation was something I had wanted more than anything in my life, " shares (a wife), "and until I realized I was the only person who wanted this reconciliation, I still held on to it..."
I haven't been posting much lately, just felt drawn to the sitch of senn & his WW.
Sorry for the t/j...now, back to you, SIPW:
Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
On a different note; There are at least 75 unanswered questions on your thread.
I would like to know if you have any interest in actually answering any of them?
People would not be posting to you if we didn't see hope in your sitch, but you have to show folks that you are listening...
sorry for the t/j, SIPW - yes, H moved back home after my Dad died at the end of August. I posted about it over on my thread. I think at first it was to help with the kids, but then a month later he lost his job and the stepmom (who he was living with) is letting her house go into foreclosure and moving in with her sister. He has made it clear that he did not come home to recover the marriage, and my attempts to meet needs are rebuffed, for the most part. I'm feeling resentful and depressed, most of the time, for lots of reasons, not only our M and my unmet needs, but grief over Dad's death and dealing with my increased family responsibilities, job stress, etc. I still maintain EP's, b/c I have learned over time that they are not solely to help H feel safe, but maintaining EP's and healthy boundaries are for me, too, and ensuring that I am the woman-wife-mother I want to be.
~You make a great point and it's something I really need to concentrate on. I don't know how much longer H is going to be able to put up with me or my past failures.
"Reconciliation was something I had wanted more than anything in my life, " shares (a wife), "and until I realized I was the only person who wanted this reconciliation, I still held on to it..."
I haven't been posting much lately, just felt drawn to the sitch of senn & his WW.
Sorry for the t/j...now, back to you, SIPW:
Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
On a different note; There are at least 75 unanswered questions on your thread.
I would like to know if you have any interest in actually answering any of them?
People would not be posting to you if we didn't see hope in your sitch, but you have to show folks that you are listening... [/quote]
~Your most certainly right. I am a better listener than poster. Thank you for taking time to post!
Its not perfect but we are not worried and we are not doing anything to change it, so that's that.
The truth is
Time apart is your enemy, without time together you will drift further apart and the breach in your M caused by the A will not heal. Your addiction to cheating will return with a vengeance and your whole persona will be lost to another affair.
Is it not worth doing without a few shekels to avoid that?
Are you both BRAINSTORMING ways to make up the money?
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
We bought our dream house that has been in his family for two generations. So I guess we are working on our M through our house.
I dont see how it is possible to work on your marriage 'through' a house.
If you dont see each other bc you work opposite shifts, then you cannot rebuild love.
When each of you returns home, you do not return home to each other... you return home to .....a house. Just a house. And thats all you will have when it falls to bits, who will get to live in it I wonder?
Loving a house is not the same as loving each other.
Honestly I feel like the two of you are in a business arrangement where the bank balance comes first and you expect the feelings of love to be magicked up on their own without any time or input from you.
I have read on your H's thread that you have two houses.
Can you sell one to make up the income? Rent it? Can you move somewhere with better job prospects? Can you live off a smaller budget, tighten your belts for a while? Can you rent out the dream house temporarily to pay for a place closer to better jobs, with the plan of returning when there are approporiate job opportunities?
You have to work on the mariage NOW and the 'dream house' later. Because the window of opportnity for saing the M is about to vanish due to the neglect it is suffering
Great suggestions from indiegirl. I hope the effort isn't wasted like all of my previous posts. When I find I am more serious about recovery than the person to whom I am posting it is time to step away. Senn and his wife fall into that category.
Its not perfect but we are not worried and we are not doing anything to change it, so that's that.
The truth is
Time apart is your enemy, without time together you will drift further apart and the breach in your M caused by the A will not heal. Your addiction to cheating will return with a vengeance and your whole persona will be lost to another affair.
Is it not worth doing without a few shekels to avoid that?
I agree with you but I'm completely clueless on where to start. H opinion thinks my work place is fine and IMO I will be on days by fall of this year. We spend every waking moment together from the time he gets off we r on the phone together and running errands together.
Are you both BRAINSTORMING ways to make up the money? Have been thinking but probably not as hard as we could.
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
We bought our dream house that has been in his family for two generations. So I guess we are working on our M through our house.
I have read on your H's thread that you have two houses.
Can you sell one to make up the income? Rent it? We have the house on the market, have had three prospects but they were unable to get financing. Renting is next but the area it's unlikely to get decent renters that take care of anything.
Can you move somewhere with better job prospects? We probably could but our family loves where we are now.
Can you live off a smaller budget, tighten your belts for a while? We are not very big spenders to begin with and I'm sure we could tighten our belts but not enough to live on one income. Especially when we have to keep replacing necessities.
Can you rent out the dream house temporarily to pay for a place closer to better jobs, with the plan of returning when there are approporiate job opportunities? It's a thought to ponder, but I am not so sure our kids would be so keen on moving once again. But that's somethiong to think about.
You have to work on the mariage NOW and the 'dream house' later. Because the window of opportnity for saing the M is about to vanish due to the neglect it is suffering [/quote][/size] And when H doesn't know if he wants to save the M, and is thinking about finding another woman by going to the bar or some stupid dating site.... I not try to have any angry moments. Shoot I can't seem to show any emotions cause it can trigger him to think of the "What If's"
:lightbulb: oh this is why we should be on same schedule so less "what if's!!! Even making love every night seems to be a LB.
I asked him what am I doing wrong, what can I work on? H said it's not what your doing it's what you've done! How do fix that????
Its not perfect but we are not worried and we are not doing anything to change it, so that's that.
The truth is
Time apart is your enemy, without time together you will drift further apart and the breach in your M caused by the A will not heal. Your addiction to cheating will return with a vengeance and your whole persona will be lost to another affair.
Is it not worth doing without a few shekels to avoid that?
I agree with you but I'm completely clueless on where to start. H opinion thinks my work place is fine and IMO I will be on days by fall of this year. We spend every waking moment together from the time he gets off we r on the phone together and running errands together.
Are you both BRAINSTORMING ways to make up the money? Have been thinking but probably not as hard as we could.
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
We bought our dream house that has been in his family for two generations. So I guess we are working on our M through our house.
I have read on your H's thread that you have two houses.
Can you sell one to make up the income? Rent it? We have the house on the market, have had three prospects but they were unable to get financing. Renting is next but the area it's unlikely to get decent renters that take care of anything.
Can you move somewhere with better job prospects? We probably could but our family loves where we are now.
Can you live off a smaller budget, tighten your belts for a while? We are not very big spenders to begin with and I'm sure we could tighten our belts but not enough to live on one income. Especially when we have to keep replacing necessities.
Can you rent out the dream house temporarily to pay for a place closer to better jobs, with the plan of returning when there are approporiate job opportunities? It's a thought to ponder, but I am not so sure our kids would be so keen on moving once again. But that's somethiong to think about.
You have to work on the mariage NOW and the 'dream house' later. Because the window of opportnity for saing the M is about to vanish due to the neglect it is suffering [/size] And when H doesn't know if he wants to save the M, and is thinking about finding another woman by going to the bar or some stupid dating site.... I not try to have any angry moments. Shoot I can't seem to show any emotions cause it can trigger him to think of the "What If's"
:lightbulb: oh this is why we should be on same schedule so less "what if's!!! Even making love every night seems to be a LB.
I asked him what am I doing wrong, what can I work on? H said it's not what your doing it's what you've done! How do fix that????
Well you can ponder, and think, and consider all you like, but try boiling an egg that way and guess what - the job dont get done by thought-power.
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
I agree with you but I'm completely clueless on where to start. H opinion thinks my work place is fine and IMO I will be on days by fall of this year. We spend every waking moment together from the time he gets off we r on the phone together and running errands together. [/size]
Basically you spend no time with each other, there is no prospect of that happening until MONTHS away, by which time you will both be beyond help. Fall is EONS away. You are headed towards the rocks and have numerous paddles to choose from, but dont act. You dont have time to be so complacent, about what your kids prefer or whether renters will care for the house! Get insurance!
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
I asked him what am I doing wrong, what can I work on? H said it's not what[/size] your doing it's what you've done! How do fix that????[/color][/i]
Actions. Actions did it. Actions will undo it.
Try this action - GET A PLAN
Originally Posted by senninpaswife
Are you both BRAINSTORMING ways to make up the money? Have been thinking but probably not as hard as we could.
I just find it massively disturbing that you arent trying at all. Sit down with your H and put as many ideas as you can down on paper for ways to get you in a safe work environment and spending CRITICAL time with each other. Put down everything you can think of, no matter how crazy.
If your H wont, say ok and go off and do your own list and ask him to review it. Make it clear you will do ANYTHING- make any financial scarifice, move, whatever to get the job done.
Nerse, Yes I am a christian. I was going to church for a while but the family stopped going with me then I got on 3rd shift and had trouble adjusting to my schedule and never made it back. We then moved and I have talked to many parents of our kids school friends to see where to go. I asked family to help motivate me to get up to go, but with no prevail. I decided at the beginning of this week I am going to set the alarm on my phone and try to take at least one kid with me.
H and I went out for dinner the last two nights. It was a treat. It was as if time stopped and we could enjoy each other. As soon as we get in the car reality comes back and H tells me how hard it is and not sure where to go from here. He tells me that he loves me but he feels powerless. He believes the only way he can get empowerment back is to do what I did. H said that at least I get the dignity to know what he is going to do.
I told him that I didn't know what to say. He said it's not fair for me to "have my cake and eat it to". So he would like to know what it is that I thought I was missing or searching for. He is right It's not fair for what I have done, but I certainly don't want to through him in the arms some crazy women with STD's. He believes this would be the only way to get threw to me.
God I am praying for his strength for us both. Please Lord I beg of you!
I am a lost for words right now. My H went to the bar Friday alone (way out of character for him) while I was a work that is only three blocks away from my work place! He said he met a younger woman and they danced (I can't even get him to dance) they kissed, he felt held her breast and she proceeded to move his hand to her derriere. H told her his M is in the crapper and they were ready to leave together. Her friends and her were arguing over her leaving with them. H grabbed coat and bar tender must have noticed what was going on and told H she was skank, so H left by himself. So I have been told. Could there be more???? H has with held situations before from me....
I don't understand. We are great when were together. Had a good week end together, but then he posts how miserable he is. When we are together and he has a look of sincere, is it all a mask? I understand how hurt he is. Is time the only cure?
Distractions right now are not moving your situation forward.
Your BH approached the cliff, and for whatever set of circumstances, backed off. We've suitably chastised and counselled him for his foolishness. One of the things pointed out to him was the inadvisibility of yielding any moral traction to you, giving you the looked-for excuse to stop working.
Now get back to your side of the stable and keep shovelling.
It really stinks doesn't it? Having that sick feeling in your stomach that your husband actually thought about touching another woman. Then really thinking about it and knowing that your husband has had that exact same feeling in his stomach more than once thanks to you.
My husband cheating on me was very out of character for him as well. Even though it does not help and I did not deserve it, I can't help but think that I am the reason why he did what he did. What makes me feel even more nauseous is the fact that I did not have the sense to think about this when I was in my own selfish fog.
Why in the world would I let another man touch me when I know that I would never want another woman touching my husband is beyond me now...selfish and insecure I guess.
Remember this feeling and never forget it. Remember that even though your husband's actions are his own, it is the pain that you have caused that led him to the cliff. Be thankful that he did not jump off like mine did because it is a lot harder to climb back up.
And NEVER use this as an excuse to hurt him in return or stop trying to learn from your mistakes and make yourself a better more trustworthy person. Nothing is about you anymore. You had your selfish moment and now it is time to give back to your husband and family.
Come up with a PLAN or as I did a letter and OUTLINE of what you are going to change. I am a visual person so I am looking at it as there are certain people, situations, and actions that are covered in the "affair fog" for me. Just like you would want to avoid poison, you want to stay away from those situation. Know your weaknesses and work on avoiding them and making yourself stronger.
Do it for your husband but also do it for yourself and your self respect.
Also, you posted above: "I don't understand. We are great when were together. Had a good week end together, but then he posts how miserable he is. When we are together and he has a look of sincere, is it all a mask?"
He very well could be wearing a mask. I thought my husband was getting better as well but he was just trying to push back pain that he could not. Especially since this was not the first time I hurt him. He could no longer take it and had to leave.
He is conflicted and wants to love you but doesn't know how he can when he does not trust you. He doesn't know if he can handle the pain. YOU = PAIN right now.
I do feel bad for you and your situation. It is very similar to mine. I wish you the best and come up with a PLAN that will not change no matter what your husband decides. This is for you!!
Thanks everyone. Through a good punch, Now I will get "back in my stable to shovel better". Our fifteen hours could certainly be better. I guess I was thinking that all time was quality together, but I guess if the kids are around it creates a disturbance. So I guess on the weekends I should make plans to do something like movies, an event, or just a hike. what else can you do with limited $$$?
Thanks everyone. Through a good punch, Now I will get "back in my stable to shovel better". Our fifteen hours could certainly be better. I guess I was thinking that all time was quality together, but I guess if the kids are around it creates a disturbance. So I guess on the weekends I should make plans to do something like movies, an event, or just a hike. what else can you do with limited $$$?
Picnics, back rubs, board games, you can do stuff like "getting to know you games", etc.
That 15hrs really needs to be a minimum of 20 at this point.
Why don't you take drives in the country? We always do that. Good opportunities to talk...
My husband and I do a number of things for a cheap date:
1. Go to a free art museum at the university 2. Take a five mile walk around the town on a sunshiny day 3. Window shop in the mall - sample the lotions, smell a perfume or a cologne on each other. 4. Hot chocolate and french fries date. 5. Get a $1 video rental at the store and wait until son was asleep to watch (when he was younger) 6. Read a good book together - take turns being the reader 7. Read Scriptures together 8. Attend a free recital at the university, or a concert at the high school - might cost us $10 total for the concert tickets depending on whether it's a solo recital or a choir/orchestra/theatrical performance. 9. Take turns cooking a theme dinner for each other. Go to the thrift store for any costumes or table decor needed with a maximum $5 budget - see how creative we could be. You'd be surprised what some rice, ham and pineapple, or hamburger and fresh vegies can be made into...
Thanks everyone. Through a good punch, Now I will get "back in my stable to shovel better". Our fifteen hours could certainly be better. I guess I was thinking that all time was quality together, but I guess if the kids are around it creates a disturbance. So I guess on the weekends I should make plans to do something like movies, an event, or just a hike. what else can you do with limited $$$?
Picnics, back rubs, board games, you can do stuff like "getting to know you games", etc.
That 15hrs really needs to be a minimum of 20 at this point.
Why don't you take drives in the country? We always do that. Good opportunities to talk...
CV
Here's one of those "getting to know you" games we played:
1. Who are you?
2. Are we friends?
3. When and how did we meet?
4. Do you have a crush on me?
5. Give me a nickname and explain why you picked it.
6. Describe me in one word.
7. What was your first impression?
8. Do you still think that way about me now?
9. What reminds you of me?
10. If you could give me anything what would it be?
11. How well do you know me?
12. When's the last time you saw me?
13. Ever wanted to tell me something but couldn't?
depending on where you guys are at, you may want to edit/change some of the questions so as not to trigger each other, but keep it light and have fun.
I am a lost for words right now. My H went to the bar Friday alone (way out of character for him) while I was at work
THIS is why Melody Lane has been telling both of you that it is a must to be on the same work schedule. You are both apart from each other during the times necessary to achieve 15++++ hrs of UA time.... the different shifts exasperate the issue.
My husband and I do a number of things for a cheap date:
1. Go to a free art museum at the university 2. Take a five mile walk around the town on a sunshiny day 3. Window shop in the mall - sample the lotions, smell a perfume or a cologne on each other. 4. Hot chocolate and french fries date. 5. Get a $1 video rental at the store and wait until son was asleep to watch (when he was younger) 6. Read a good book together - take turns being the reader 7. Read Scriptures together 8. Attend a free recital at the university, or a concert at the high school - might cost us $10 total for the concert tickets depending on whether it's a solo recital or a choir/orchestra/theatrical performance. 9. Take turns cooking a theme dinner for each other. Go to the thrift store for any costumes or table decor needed with a maximum $5 budget - see how creative we could be. You'd be surprised what some rice, ham and pineapple, or hamburger and fresh vegies can be made into...
Poster: senninpaswife Subject: Re: Senninpa's wife here the WS
Thanks everyone. Through a good punch, Now I will get "back in my stable to shovel better". Our fifteen hours could certainly be better. I guess I was thinking that all time was quality together, but I guess if the kids are around it creates a disturbance. So I guess on the weekends I should make plans to do something like movies, an event, or just a hike. what else can you do with limited $$$?
Ideas on a tight budget originally posted by
StillLovingHim MB's 101 7/19/2008
Quote
Liz8520 had originally posted this over in the Creative Affection section, and it's fantastic! I thought since it had been 1.5 years since it had been posted, that a reminder in a more visible forum might help some folks. I'm printing this one out for myself, too!
175 ROMANTIC THINGS YOU COULD EASILY DO -By Doug Fields
The strength of your marriage depends on the choices you make to improve it. Unfortunately, many couples have lost the spark they shared before they married and have replaced it with a humdrum routine. Dating and romancing your spouse can change those patterns, and can be a lot of fun, but will require some hard work. Planning and energy are imperative for making good times happen.
Is it worth the trouble? I'm convinced that the lack of dating and romance in marriage is one of the major causes of broken relationships. Marriages usually don't collapse overnight. They become bankrupt gradually because they lack daily deposits of love, communication and affirmation.
[Below are a number of ideas that could help you in your romantic expression with each other.] A few of these ideas may be too outrageous for your style. That's okay. Read the ideas, shake your head in wonder, and mutter, "Some people are really bizarre." I developed this list with the hope that each couple would add to or subtract from it in order to meet their individual ideas. You may find the outrageous ideas are helpful in stretching your imagination and pushing you toward becoming more creative.
Now—for the ideas! Here they are:
1. Sketch your dream-house floor plan and talk about the possibilities for each room. 2. Take a bath or shower together. 3. Write the love story of how you met. Get it printed and bound. 4. List your spouse's best qualities in alphabetical order. 5. Tour a museum or an art gallery. 6. Park in a secluded area and kiss in your car. 7. Make your own movie scene—stop and kiss on a bridge as the sun is setting. 8. Place great emphasis on the little changes she makes concerning her appearance. 9. Give your wife a bath and wash her hair. 10. Float on a raft together. 11. Take a stroll around the block. 12. Take your wife away from the kitchen while she's cooking, and "sauté" her with kisses. 13. Bring home foods she loves to eat but won't buy for herself. (Don't do this if she's dieting!) 14. Give each other a back rub. 15. Rent a classic love-story and watch it while cuddling under blankets. 16. Give your spouse a body massage. 17. Walk through model homes and dream about your next house. Steal a kiss in a closet. 18. Stroll around a nearby lake. 19. Sit in front of the fireplace and talk. 20. Read to one another in bed. 21. Take a horse-drawn carriage ride. 22. Turn the lights down during dinner. 23. Make a surprise call to your spouse while you're out of town (in addition to your scheduled calls). 24. Play music in your bedroom. 25. Go swimming in the middle of the night. 26. Shave your wife's legs. 27. Shave your husband's face. 28. Write a poem for your spouse. 29. Run through the sprinklers on a hot day. 30. Remember to look into your spouse's eyes while she tells you about her day. 31. Make up nicknames for each other. 32. Go the extra mile to please your mate. 33. When you're the one who's correct during a discussion, give your spouse a kiss. Focus on your love rather than who's right. 34. Tell your spouse, "I'm glad I married you!" 35. Fulfill one of your spouse's fantasies. 36. Hug your husband from behind and give him a kiss on the back of the neck. 37. Stop in the middle of your busy day and talk to your spouse for 15 minutes. 38. Create your own special holiday. 39. Place your hand on your spouse's leg when you're riding in the car. 40. Send your wife a compliment through one of her friends or colleagues. 41. Ask for an isolated booth in a restaurant. 42. Become your spouse's cheerleader when she's had a terrible day. 43. Tell your wife, "I love you because…" (Finish the sentence.) 44. Show your wife affection while she's talking to one of her friends. 45. Sleep in a sleeping bag together. 46. Do something your spouse loves to do, even though it doesn't interest you personally. 47. Go horseback riding on the same horse. 48. Photocopy a newspaper cartoon and write your own romantic caption. 49. Write out romantic notes and leave them in places your spouse will find them. 50. Cut out romantic photos from magazines and write your own messages on them. 51. While driving, pull over for scenic sights and get out of the car to enjoy God's creation. 52. Write your spouse affirming love letters. 53. Mail your spouse love letters instead of leaving them in the house. 54. Feed ducks together (you can feed any type of animal as long as it's not a house pet—the idea is to get outside together). 55. Build a snowman together. 56. Watch the sun come up or go down. 57. Go fishing together with only one pole. 58. Sit on the same side of a restaurant booth. 59. Spontaneously spend the entire day together away from the house. 60. Picnic by a pond. 61. Give your mate a foot massage. 62. Put on perfume or after-shave before going out. 63. Go Skinny-dipping. 64. Develop a code word for sex that you can use when you're a part of a crowd. 65. Buy your husband or wife a new outfit. 66. Sing a song to your spouse. 67. Let go of helium balloons and watch them race each other out of sight. 68. Buy her a stuffed animal. 69. Write "I love you" in the dust around the house instead of complaining about it. 70. Set up a surprise manicure, hairstyling, or mud bath appointment for your spouse. 71. Put together a puzzle on a rainy night. 72. Read a romance novel together. 73. Rent a boat. 74. Take a train ride. 75. Ride bikes in the rain. 76. Read poetry to one another. 77. Build sand castles on the beach 78. Take a moonlight canoe ride. 79. Make your spouse a greeting card. 80. Swing together on a playground. 81. Go for a midnight dip in a hot tub. 82. Give your wife a balloon bouquet. 83. Plant a tree together in honor of your marriage. 84. Make heart-shaped pancakes and serve them to your wife in bed. 85. Bring home flowers. 86. Surprise your wife when she's busy by saying, "What can I do to help?" 87. Take a hot-air balloon ride. 88. Walk through a housing construction site and kiss each other in each of the houses. 89. Count the stars. 90. Prior to a "work day" at home, hide gifts for your spouse in places where they'll find them. 91. Bring a late-night snack and drink to bed. 92. Order different kinds of food at a restaurant. 93. Whisper something romantic to your spouse in a crowded room. 94. Have a candlelight picnic in the backyard. 95. Play tennis at night under a full moon using no lights. 96. Develop a weekly dining spot to meet for lunch. 97. Share a long piece of licorice without using your hands. 98. Make cookies by candlelight. 99. Unscrew the table-light bulb at your restaurant booth to dim the lights. 100. Put perfume on your bed sheets. 101. Leave encouraging notes for your spouse that he will find at different times through the week. 102. Put on old clothes and go out and play in the mud together and then shower together. 103. Hold hands while roller skating. 104. Write out 50 reasons you're glad to be married to your spouse. 105. Tickle-wrestle in bed. 106. Go on a walk together and pick flowers. 107. Put an "I Love You!" message in her lunch. 108. Place a rose on her pillow. 109. Set candles above the bed (carefully!). 110. Serve breakfast in bed. 111. Hide small gifts that your spouse will find throughout the week. 112. Sit and listen carefully to one another. 113. Tuck your wife into bed, read her a goodnight story (or scripture) and kiss her on the forehead. 114. Remember how you used to laugh at things he thought were funny? Do it again. 115. Write a song for your spouse. 116. Go for a walk barefoot. 117. Go kite flying. 118. Splash each other. 119. Spend an entire day in the "middle of nowhere". 120. Dance in your candlelit living room. 121. Walk on the beach. 122. Play a board game by the fire. 123. Reminisce through old photo albums. 124. Go away for the weekend. 125. Go for a moonlit walk down a street of beautiful homes. 126. Rub feet under the table. 127. Kiss in crowded area. 128. Sit on his lap even when there's sitting room elsewhere. 129. Surprise your spouse with an ice-cold drink while he/she is working hard on a hot day. 130. Kiss in the rain. 131. Join him, unexpectedly, in the shower. 132. Mail a love letter to your spouse's place of work. 133. Create a trail through your home with a string leading your mate to a gift you have for them. 134. Buy your husband a negligee that you know you'll look great in. 135. Brush her hair. 136. Ride a carousel or a merry-go-round. 137. Take a bike ride—on the same bike. 138. Hug while you roll down a hill (if you want to do this again you'd better choose a grassy hill). 139. Leave teasing notes around the house to create an atmosphere of anticipation. 140. Use a tender-touch as you pass one another around the house. 141. Share a milk shake with two straws. 142. Take the phone off the hook, turn off the TV, turn down the lights and kiss on the floor. 143. Put fresh flowers in front of her bathroom sink and write a love note with lipstick on the mirror. 144. Dedicate a song to her over the radio. 145. Break away from the chaos of the family long enough to share an intimate conversation. 146. Wink and smile at your spouse from across the room. 147. Kiss your spouse's fingers. 148. Celebrate for no reason. 149. Leave a photo of yourself on his dashboard. 150. Give your husband a manicure. 151. Using plastic cups, create your own miniature golf course by placing the cups in different locations around the house and have fun creatively playing the game together. 152. Fill your bed with rose petals. 153. Play strip canasta. 154. Remember something she thinks you've forgotten. 155. Stand together in front of a lake and watch your reflections. 156. Hug for an extended period of time. 157. Leave your lip-prints on a note. 158. Sit in front of the window during a rainstorm. 159. Do something together to help someone else. 160. Take a fun class together. 161. Go rock-skipping. 162. Ride a bicycle-built-for-two. 163. Fall asleep holding each other. 164. Draw your spouse a stick figure picture of something romantic. 165. Tell your wife you will take her anywhere she wants to go. 166. Call your husband during the day and remind him of your love for him. 167. Get up some morning and head out in the car together without planning one single thing. 168. Have a hot bubble-bath ready for her when she comes home from a hard day. 169. Ask your spouse, "What can I do to make you happier?" 170. Buy new satin sheets. 171. Try to go away for the weekend and spend only $20. 172. Break your after-dinner routine and go sightseeing. 173. Mail a love letter to your spouse's place of work. 174. Reminisce about your first kiss or your first date. 175. Drop everything and do something for the one you love—right now! _________________________ [font:Arial Black] JUMP! -- and you will find out how to unfold your wings as you fall.
I understand how hurt he is. Is time the only cure?
No, the answer lies in the PLAN, which you have both resisted to implement with numerous "but's".
DITTO #3
You told me in a previous post that you had not read HNHN or LB'ers in years....
You have also said, in so many words, that you have not begun working out the details of implementing Dr. Harley's plan of recovery from infidelity.
So when are you going to get motivated to do this?
My outline of the first 6 weeks after my A ended;
Wk 1) Left town alone with my wife and answered A related questions about 3-4 hours straight evry day,,,and spent undivided time together the remainder of the each day, for seven days. We also worked out the details of how we were going to proceed forward.
Wk 2) Came home from our trip and I proceeded to make ammends to those I had been lying to.... My family, my in-laws, my ministers, my employees, my friends..... I laid it all out there.
Wk 3) Began counseling/coaching with Dr. Jennifer Harley-Chalmers. With Jennifers guidance, I worked through SAA and wrote out my list of EP's. Started and finished HNHN for the first time (re-read it again a few weeks later)
Wk 4) Worked through ALL of my top 5 EN lists, describing IN DETAIL, at least 10 ways I like each of them met. (My wife was mirroring my efforts at the same time) Again, Jennifer guided us through a discussion of how to use these lists effectively. Started and finished the book Love Busters.
Wk 5) Learned how to use POJA correctly with Jennifers help. Spent a great deal of time learning how to schedule UA.... (We only had FIVE kids at this time, so scheduling time was easier than it is now)
Wk 6) Went to see an attorney to draw up our POST-NUP Agreement. With Jennifers help, we learned how to do feedback with each other for the purpose of learning how to hit the targets of meeting EN's more effectively. This feedback did not go well for months, it was a source of pain to my wife and triggered her terribly, SOOOOO it was very one sided for a long time. (My willingness to meet her EN's was, and still is, my "Thank You" for hanging in there with me) Started and finished the book FIL,SIL. (I love this book, I read it at least 20 times the first year and still listen to it again on Audio CD every couple of months)
Wk 7) Worked with Jennifer over the next few weeks to get the kinks out. Laid out a detailed, long term plan to affair proof my life. Eliminated all the possible sources of my wifes pain.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat...
Did I mention, I'm also a very slow reader? Even after several eye surgeries, I still have a difficult time reading... Yet I managed to get all of that done in a few short weeks.
HOW?
I eliminated all distractions! I purposed to work the plan! I still worked 45 hrs a week (which was far less than I had worked in years) We still scheduled 15 Hrs of family time (FC is my wifes #1 need, tied with O&H). We found between 20-25 hrs of UA time in there as well. There were NO TV's & NO Movies... There was no time for them & Way too many triggers with all the affairs and suggestive crap in every program. We started with a UA list similar to what KA posted earlier & added to it over time.
This is just a rough idea of what we did in the first 3 months of recovery. I'm not bragging, but I wanted to show you what happened in our first few months, WHICH IS WHY IT WAS SUCCESSFUL, and HOPEFULLY it may help you see why I'm so discouraged with your progress/effort.
Look, It isn't the amount of time that passes that makes recovery possible.... It's the effort to work the MB PLAN that makes a recovery possible!
BTW, I'm taking time while I'm in China to post to you! We just adopted a beautiful, little, 4 year old China Doll this week and she is napping right now, while Mamma is swiming with all our other kids. Myself and others take time out of our crazy lives to post to you BECAUSE we ALL want to see you succeed!
This post is one of the most encouraging ones I have seen here lately and once more proves that everything is possible and even more with Harley's well-outlined plan.
Congratulations, HPB and SMB, on your latest addition!
Thanks for all the wonderful idea's. This will certainly help. I love the getting to know you games. I have lost sight of who I am and i believe this will help alot.
HerPapaBear, Thank you for taking your time while you are very busy to post. I really appreciate your input and your insight is so very helpful. I am still working on a plan. So far I making a list of things to do for the two of us. I am getting ready to call my uncle to see what advice he can give. He has a very strong religious back round and told me that I should be looking for an assembly of God church or southern baptist, yesterday.
We have been spending more time together. I'm sorry, I just got off from work and I am so tired I can not think straight. I will get back on soon to give better details. Thanks again for all the great idea's.
Thanks for all the wonderful idea's. This will certainly help. I love the getting to know you games. I have lost sight of who I am and i believe this will help alot.
HerPapaBear, Thank you for taking your time while you are very busy to post. I really appreciate your input and your insight is so very helpful. I am still working on a plan. So far I making a list of things to do for the two of us. I am getting ready to call my uncle to see what advice he can give. He has a very strong religious back round and told me that I should be looking for an assembly of God church or southern baptist, yesterday.
We have been spending more time together. I'm sorry, I just got off from work and I am so tired I can not think straight. I will get back on soon to give better details. Thanks again for all the great idea's.
If you guys are conservative protestants theologically, also try the PCA and OPC. The PCA churches tend to be a bit bigger (over 200 members), and the OPC churches tend to be smaller and more close knit.
I know many pastors in both denoms and they are solid bible believing guys.
If I remember correctly, your H said you would get some help from Steve Harley. What has happened to that?
In fact, I do not see any trying from any of you. You are not practising POJA, you are just LBing each other all over, you are disrespectful and mean to each other.
!!! 
well written 
Get out your hankie... 
I'm going to pin you down on this, because I get the impression that you are dodging the question.
I see two posters here, Senn and Senn's wife, who like to make noise so they can say they tried. I see no actual effort. 
