Marriage Builders
My wife had a 4 year affair,in which sex occured 2-3 times per week the entire period, additionally, there were vacation getaways, under the guise of business trips, movies, dinners, picnics, etc. They also claimed they loved each other then. My wife told me recently, says she was young, foolish, though she loved him and of course, I didn't give her any attention, which I probably didn't. After it ended in 1993, she stayed with me, all the way through, of which I was an active alcoholic until 2005. We have 2 children born together well after the affair and have built a pretty wonderful life. All that being said, I cant get the images out of my head. I love her, want to die with her and be happy. We have a super sex life, but I am distraught over the affair. I knew the guy. Know where he is now. He is still married to the same woman with kids. He told my wife that his wife tricked him into pregnancy in 1991/2. I think he manipulated her in a time that he saw she was vulnerable and used her for 4 years. I am not relieving her of any resonsibility, but want to FIX him! How do I get the images and hatred out of my head to move on?
Hi Willical,
I'm sorry you find yourself here, but you came to the right place. There are many great people here that will help you figure things out. Have you read through the site?

Can you give us more info? How long you've been married, age of kids, age of you and your wife.

The vets will be along shortly to help you out. Good luck and take care.
Originally Posted by willical
My wife had a 4 year affair,in which sex occured 2-3 times per week the entire period, additionally, there were vacation getaways, under the guise of business trips, movies, dinners, picnics, etc. They also claimed they loved each other then. My wife told me recently, says she was young, foolish, though she loved him and of course, I didn't give her any attention, which I probably didn't. After it ended in 1993, she stayed with me, all the way through, of which I was an active alcoholic until 2005. We have 2 children born together well after the affair and have built a pretty wonderful life. All that being said, I cant get the images out of my head. I love her, want to die with her and be happy. We have a super sex life, but I am distraught over the affair. I knew the guy. Know where he is now. He is still married to the same woman with kids. He told my wife that his wife tricked him into pregnancy in 1991/2. I think he manipulated her in a time that he saw she was vulnerable and used her for 4 years. I am not relieving her of any resonsibility, but want to FIX him! How do I get the images and hatred out of my head to move on?

Hi willi,

So sorry you are here. It is a terrible and great place to be at the same time. You can have a great marriage, but there is a lot of work to do... Are you ready?

You are going to have to require some things from her and they won't be easy... To start with:

1) give a complete and accurate timeline of the affair and include all pertinent details... major events, etc...

2) answer all questions completely and honestly, including information about other possible affairs (this may require a polygraph test)

3) She will have to write him a no contact letter which you will approve and mail off together

4) She will have to list out extraordinary precautions that she will **LIVE** by in order to prevent another affair happening

5)You will have to expose this affair. Especially to the other man's wife.

once this is done, there are other things we can help with too. Managing memories and images is hard, but not impossible.

CV


Willical, after reading your story I could have easily written it myself. I was in the same situation as you but the affair was short lived. You need to get any answer that you need from your wife and expose the affair. as far as fixing the OM forget it it takes 2 to have an affair plus it is not worth it. Time will heal some thing but not everything. I just got off the phone with my wife asking her another question that I had never thought of. Her affair was 21 years ago. You were like me in I drove my wife away with my drinking. What's done is done. She is with you so apparently she loved you more than him. There is nothing you or I can do for something that happened in the past but always look to the future. Honesty and good luck to you.
Originally Posted by willical
I knew the guy. Know where he is now. He is still married to the same woman with kids.

Does the OM's W know about this affair?
Willical,

My W also had an affair 20+ years ago it began before we got married and lasted until about a year? into our marriage at which time she wanted to divorce me. I think it was only emotional after we got married as she spoke about how a woman will stop fooling around once she is married, but she continued to work with him until he left the company.

I'm not sure what her motives were for staying with me her story changes from time to time, but it stings me that I lived for 20+ years with a reduced quality marriage I can't get my time back and I feel some regret that I stayed loyal to my W turning down or walking away from other women.

I am not relieving her of any resonsibility, but want to FIX him! How do I get the images and hatred out of my head to move on?

Gather together whatever hard evidence you have letters etc, gain his confidence and interview the OM, bring along a voice recorder then turn over all to his W. You can likely expose to his children on facebook as well.

For me there is no forgiveness for OM2, since my W is the Mother of my children I have to forgive her, my W is still protective of OM2, I don't know if it is out of fear of divorce or of what I will do to OM2.

How did you find out about OM and the affair?

God Bless
Gamma
Originally Posted by willical
. He is still married to the same woman with kids. He told my wife that his wife tricked him into pregnancy in 1991/2. I think he manipulated her in a time that he saw she was vulnerable and used her for 4 years. I am not relieving her of any resonsibility, but want to FIX him! How do I get the images and hatred out of my head to move on?

willical, welcome to MArriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons your find yourself here, but you are in the right place. You have much more to overcome because she has deceived you for 20 years. That is to add insult to injury. It usually takes a couple of years to recover from the discovery of an affair, so I am sorry to tell you, but those images won't go away soon. frown

I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program for recovery in there. The reason your wife had an affair is because she has poor boundaries around men. Unless that is corrected, she will always be vulnerable to an affair anytime there is trouble in your marriage.

Dr Harley DOES recommend exposing an affair, even if it is years after discover. So I would definitely expose the affair to the OM's wife and probably your children.
My wife and I were married 25 years ago. The affait stared about 23 years ago and continues for 4 years. I was unattentive and drinking alot. She went out on long afternoons and such for years and I didnt even know it. She had him to OUR home, in OUR bed, probably over 100 times and I didnt know, not to mention hotels, cars and trips for "business." It stopped at about 6 years of marriage and she says nothing more, with anyone ever happened. I believe her. I was shocked, because I always thought her to be of the highest moral standard. We had our first daughter at about 9 years of ammriage and second at 12.I continues to drink until about 17-18 years of marriage and have been sober for 7+ years. I know she stayed through alot of bad times. She even says she thought it was her punishment. Things are great, the best they have EVER been in our marriage and I love her so much. She just told me recently and I cant get the images out of my head. I have many questions of which she was willingly and honestly answered most, that she can remember. She wants the questions to stop as they are also hurting her. She loves me and wants to make things work. How do I get teh images out of my head, move on and just LOVE?
by the way. The OM wife does know. She has known. She called my wife 20 years ago during and reamed her, but it continued. She told me all this. I'm not so sure about the "porr boundries around men" anymore, perhaps back then. She really is a different woman now and I am a different man.She doesnt want me to make contact for fear of how it will affect my kids. I'm sure she doesnt want to be publicly exposed to freinds and family either. I dont want her hurt anymore either.
Additionally, I dont wthing OM wife knows the full extent of the affair, maybe she does, but I would doubt it, since it continued after she called. I amsure she doesnt know that he told my wife his second kid he was tricked by his wife to get pregnant. I believe he was predatory in nature and identified my wife as vulnerable at that time. It by NO MEANS excuses her actions, but he is scum, to come into another mans home and sneak around.
One more thing. I have had 5 "one night stands" in my marriage. Well after her affair, but prior to my kids being born. So as you can see, I am by no measn any angel either. I have also told mmy wife about this.
One more thing. I have had 5 "one night stands" in my marriage. Well after her affair, but prior to my kids being born. So as you can see, I am by no measn any angel either. I have also told mmy wife about this.
Originally Posted by willical
by the way. The OM wife does know. She has known. She called my wife 20 years ago during and reamed her, but it continued. She told me all this. I'm not so sure about the "porr boundries around men" anymore, perhaps back then. She really is a different woman now and I am a different man.She doesnt want me to make contact for fear of how it will affect my kids. I'm sure she doesnt want to be publicly exposed to freinds and family either. I dont want her hurt anymore either.

will, I would call up the OM's wife and make sure she knows. If your wife is truly remorseful she won't mind this. And she won't mind your telling the kids and your close family members. Telling them would be therapeutic for your wife and for you. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist and the founder of Marriage Builders. Here is what he says about this issue:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.

As you already know, I�m a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency�letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others -- especially those who care for you the most -- should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you�holding you accountable."

I don't believe your wife has changed dramatically. After all, she has deceived you for 20 years. That is about as wayward as it gets and is not something to be swept under the rug. I am glad to hear she no longer practices poor boundaries around men, but the blame for the affair is 100% hers. If she had not done allowed this man to meet her needs, there would not have been an affair. Does she still allow others outside of marriage to meet her needs?

Recovery means making amends to the people she harmed, not sweeping her crime under the rug. She lied to you, the OM's wife and her children. True remorse is demonstrated by telling the truth.

Your kids have probably known about her affair for years but have been confused all this time. I can only imagine the guilt they feel about you, will.

It doesn't help your wife or anyone else to hide her affair.
Originally Posted by willical
One more thing. I have had 5 "one night stands" in my marriage. Well after her affair, but prior to my kids being born. So as you can see, I am by no measn any angel either. I have also told mmy wife about this.


Why did your WW come clean?

When and why did you come clean to your WW or did your WW find out on her own?

It is a must to call OMW and compare what you found out from WW and what OMW knows.
Willical,like I said I could have easily have written your story. My drinking almost destroyed my marriage. My wife ask for a divorce one day. I did not see that coming. She left me and started an affair with a man she worked with within two days. I still believe he pursued her. My wife had also never been with anyone else so I think that not being with anyone but me played a role also. We came within one day of a divorce before she decided that she wanted to make the marriage work. The OM left the job the week we got back together. Now for the images that you have in your head of what they were doing. They will be with you the rest of your life however over time they will sting less and less. You should make a list of all the questions that you want answered and ask your wife to truthfully answer them even though it is painful for her. If there is anything you do not want to know don't ask. I my case I wanted to know everything and I mean everything. My wife was very honest in answering any question. There is nothing that you or I can do to change what has happened in the past. There is no undoing an affair. Sounds like your wife wants to make your marriage work. Tell her you what answer and above all you want honest answers. I recently looked up the OM on face book and showed my wife she had forgotten his last name. Look at it on the bright side she is with you not him so if it is any comfort you are the better man. Now the images are there but not a constant distraction. Good Luck.
how could my kids have known, they were not even born yet?
we both came clean after a bad argument

Weld:

Thanks for your support. Some of the other posts dont seem very constructive. You seem to be in a better place and where I am at. Did you contact the OM or his W? To what end if it's been 20 years? Is it just my ego at this point?

Willi
melodyLane:

What about the fact that I almost NEVER met her meeds back then. I know it to be true, I was there and I was very into myself, what I was doing and selfish. Believe me!
Originally Posted by willical
melodyLane:

What about the fact that I almost NEVER met her meeds back then. I know it to be true, I was there and I was very into myself, what I was doing and selfish. Believe me!

The truth is that she allowed another man to meet her needs. That is why she had the affair. If she had not allowed him to meet her needs, the affair wouldn't have happened.
Originally Posted by willical
how could my kids have known, they were not even born yet?



ahhh, gotcha! Even so, they should be told the truth about what happened. There is no reason not to tell them.
Originally Posted by willical
Weld:

Thanks for your support. Some of the other posts dont seem very constructive.
willi, trust me, you do NOT want to say that on a forum about complete strangers who, with great kindness, took time out of their day to try and help you. That will be the last time you hear from some of them, unless you apologise.
Willical, I did contact the OM however I would not suggest the way I did it I almost ended up in jail over my contact at a stop light on a highway. My WW called me from work and told me the OM was going to sign charges against me if I ever touch him again. The OM quit his job within a week of our encounter. The OM wife had recently left him so there was no need to contact her. That is the reason I think he pursued my wife. I feel like the OM took something from me that I can never get back but my wife says that I am wrong and that I gave it away with my drinking. Whats done is done there is no changing the past. There is absolutely nothing I can do to change what happened. Does it still bother me? At times hell yes it does but there is nothing I can do about it. Look at it like I do I must have been the better man because she chose me instead of him. So in a sense I won. A this point it is more of an ego thing than anything else. I am 58 and she is 54 we both are still very much in love with each other, more in love with each other than before any of this happened. We can now talk about it if I want to without getting mad anymore. You simply can't change what has happened in the past but look to a brighter future.
Will, the most important thing is to make sure the OM's wife is informed of the affair. If your wife is sincerely remorseful, she won't skip that step. She won't feel any need to hide the affair. Another reason you should tell your close family members about the affairs is so that they can hold you both accountable and support your marriage.

As far as your kids go, they should not be told lies about the source of tension in their home. The only possible reason for not telling these folks about the affair is potential embarrassment and that is a SILLY, childish reason to avoid exposure.

This is information about the OM's wife life that has been wrongfully withheld from her. It is your wife's responsibility to make sure she is informed.
Originally Posted by willical
Weld:

Thanks for your support. Some of the other posts dont seem very constructive. You seem to be in a better place and where I am at. Did you contact the OM or his W? To what end if it's been 20 years? Is it just my ego at this point?

Willi

Will,
What you are seing is Weld is connecting with you and has a similar problem in his life, that does not mean the other posts aren't constructive. Believe me you are fuzzy right now and are hurting and want some connection from posters here. You will not see this from the vets but you must understand they are here to help you. Some come off cold and to the point and you have to get past that and use what they give you to help your marriage recover.

You are in the right place. Don't get discouraged, keep posting.
Originally Posted by weld
I recently looked up the OM on face book and showed my wife she had forgotten his last name.

You do realize that this is the equivalence of giving a recovering alcoholic a drink, right? She might have "forgotten" his name, but she has not now. She has been reminded and is now thinking of him. This is how affairs get fired back up all the time.
Melody I realized that it was a very stupid thing to do after I had shown it to my wife and seen the hurt on her face. In my case the OM is 67 and married. I am 100% responsible for her leaving but I have now become the man she has want me to become. She is my best friend and truly the love of my life. Looking back now I can see what I almost stupidly threw away.
How can you be sure the OMW knows? Your wife could be saying that to avoid exposure.

If OMW knew all along, how does that make you feel knowing if OMW had exposed to you back then, the affair may not have kept going as long.
Originally Posted by willical
we both came clean after a bad argument
What was the fight about and how did your WW handle the news that you were a WH now?
yes, you are right about that and I do wish I had known long ago
I just dont see the advantage to embarrising her and telling friends and family about this very private thing. Perhaps confronting the OM & OMW is in order, but even that seems more like a revenge/ego thing for me, when I look at it logically. I certainly dont see the need to involve mt 15 and 13 kids, they have enough on their plates.
weld, are you sober now and for how long?
Willical I have been sober about 15 years. Whenever my wife decided to come home I was still drinking. What I didn't find out until about a year ago she was dumped by the other man. But that is one of the questions I did not ask as to why the affair was ending. Guess I should have but it now is water under the bridge.
Willical if you are not sober you need to be. You have to fix yourself before you can fix anything else. I found AA worked for me. I could see problems starting to develop again so I fix myself before they got any worse. It was one of the few wisest decision I ever made.
Originally Posted by willical
I just dont see the advantage to embarrising her and telling friends and family about this very private thing. Perhaps confronting the OM & OMW is in order, but even that seems more like a revenge/ego thing for me, when I look at it logically. I certainly dont see the need to involve mt 15 and 13 kids, they have enough on their plates.

Will, adultery is not a private thing at all. And of course contacting the OMW has nothing to do with your ego, but with basic decency. This is information about her life that has been withheld from her. Her need to know superecedes your petty desires for revenge. You and your wife have a moral obligation to give her the truth. If your wife is sincerely remorseful, she will want to make sure the OMW is told the truth.

And the reason your children and close family members should know is so they can support your family. There is no reason NOT to tell them.
Originally Posted by willical
I just dont see the advantage to embarrising her and telling friends and family about this very private thing. Perhaps confronting the OM & OMW is in order, but even that seems more like a revenge/ego thing for me, when I look at it logically. I certainly dont see the need to involve mt 15 and 13 kids, they have enough on their plates.


Excuse me? 'involve' them? This is their life! How would you feel if your parents perpetrated that level of deception on you?

Plus I cant believe you are wiling to help betray OMW with silence.

Check out my sig.
Originally Posted by willical
I just dont see the advantage to embarrising her and telling friends and family about this very private thing. Perhaps confronting the OM & OMW is in order, but even that seems more like a revenge/ego thing for me, when I look at it logically. I certainly dont see the need to involve mt 15 and 13 kids, they have enough on their plates.


Her actions re adultery are what embarrass her

Her actions re how she responds to the truth and 'owning her shtt' are what would redeem that embarrassment.

Or you can just let her live a life of shame and secrecy. And join it.
What a tragic disservice you do to your kids by not telling them. This would be an excellent way to role model good behavior to them. You can tell them about your affairs and show them how you have overcome them. Dr Harley attributes his life's work to finding out about his grandfathers affair. Not only was he educated about the dangers of adultery, and able to avoid affairs himself, but grew up and helped others learn to avoid them.

Why would you deprive your kids of that valuable lesson? That is where you are being prideful. Keep secrets is being foolishly prideful and helps no one.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
foolishly prideful.

Here we have the heart of the matter.

After my H's affair I discovered a much loved and respected family member had had an affair in their youth.

Had I known sooner that even people I love and respect can make those kins of mistakes, I would have realised the dangers and affair proofed my own marriage.

But I suppose people didnt want me involved and wanted me to love a cowardly lie rather than a brave truth.
Weld, I have been sober for 7+ years
Willical,that is great at least you are not impaired whenever it comes to making any decision. Just put some rational thought into anything you do. The past is gone forever.
In my mind the honsesty has been shed between US. The OMW, does know, to what extent, I am not aware, but she called my W years ago. My kids are innocent and young. Perhaps when they are older, but why NOW? We need to get our lives sorted out first. We are very happy, probably for the first time in our lives, I dont want to jepordize that at all!
Weld, are you with your W and happy?
I agree, the past is gone forever. Its the present and future I want to focus on.
Originally Posted by willical
In my mind the honsesty has been shed between US. The OMW, does know, to what extent, I am not aware, but she called my W years ago. My kids are innocent and young. Perhaps when they are older, but why NOW? We need to get our lives sorted out first. We are very happy, probably for the first time in our lives, I dont want to jepordize that at all!

If your wife is sincerely remorseful she will want to tell the OMW the truth. A person who won't make amends is not sorry. Your wife is very wayward in that she has lied for 20 years. If you want her to change then don't encourage her to continue to be a liar. That does not help her, you, or her victims.

A big part of recovery is bringing the adultery out into the open. You dont recover by sweeping it under the rug.

Are you here to recover your marriage, will? Because honesty is the first step.
Originally Posted by willical
I agree, the past is gone forever. Its the present and future I want to focus on.

Recovery starts with honesty, though. Not in sweeping the problem under the rug. Secrecy has a toxic effect on your marriage. Why continue it?
Melody, Did you understand that I was an active alcoholic for 18 years? That I was unattentive, violent, drunk and a basic [censored] for that time? She stayed anyway!
She took care of me and basically mothered me all that time until I got sober
Originally Posted by willical
Melody, Did you understand that I was an active alcoholic for 18 years? That I was unattentive, violent, drunk and a basic [censored] for that time? She stayed anyway!

Do you understand there is no excuse for an affair? If we are going to blame you for her affair can we therefore blame HER for your alcoholism?

Does she have a special adultery entitlement?
Originally Posted by willical
She took care of me and basically mothered me all that time until I got sober

You are hurting her by taking the blame for her adultery. She cant learn from her mistakes if she doesn't take accountability for her own act. You are no more responsible for her affair than she is responsible for your drinking.

Would she accept if we suggested that she made you drink? If she were only a better wife you wouldn't have become an alcoholic? Does that make any sense?

You demean your wife by implying she cannot take the blame for her actions.
Willical, My wife and I are very happy. In fact we are coming up on our 36Th anniversary. I posted somewhere that I had found the OM on face book. I found his wife first. At the time of the affair I did not know that he was engaged to this woman he is now married to. I could easily call or email her saying "hey while you were dating your husband he was screwing my wife" In reality there is nothing his wife or I could do about it because the affair is long dead. If I were to do that the one that would get hurt the most is my wife whom I deeply love. I am not for any reason under the sun going to do that. I have hurt my wife enough I am not going to dig up something from the past to hurt anyone. I know I will catch hell for this but right or wrong I am not going to intently hurt someone I love.
Originally Posted by willical
Melody, Did you understand that I was an active alcoholic for 18 years? That I was unattentive, violent, drunk and a basic [censored] for that time? She stayed anyway!

In what way does that make it ok for you and her to be liars now?

Originally Posted by willical
I agree, the past is gone forever. Its the present and future I want to focus on.


It will be in the present for as long as you continue to lie about it. It will take the truth to disempower it and truly move past it. Once people know, support you and see the truth - it stops being a big deal. Lying about it makes it a big bad secret that will haunt you both forever.

What will you do when people (especailly your kids) ask you direct qs about strange stuff they saw, things which dont add up?

What lies do you have lined up to deal with that?

What will you say when your kids find out and want to know why you lied? The truth always outs.

What lies do you have to deal with that?

Where is the line drawn between a newly found honest marriage and the lies you tell other people? What is stopping you from in the future lying about drinking and her lying about resumed contact if you both refuse to be honest people right now?

You both still think lying is acceptable if it is 'easier' or if the truth is unpleasant. Truth that is pleasant is hardly worth your while! Your attitue towards honesty does not give a hopeful outlook
Originally Posted by weld
If I were to do that the one that would get hurt the most is my wife whom I deeply love.or wrong I am not going to intently hurt someone I love.


Yes or no questions please.

Is your wife remorseful?

Is your wife wishing to become a more open and honest person?

Are you willing to support your wife in that honesty and help her achieve that?

Yes to all but we are talking about something that happened over 20 years ago. My wife also has a heart condition I am not going to put any undue stress on her for no reason.
Keeping such a terrible secret, being worried about being caught out and how to lie about it is way more undue stress than being truthful.

The truth.

Thats all it is.

What terrible awful thing do you think will happen from simply telling...

The truth?

Originally Posted by weld
Yes to all but we are talking about something that happened over 20 years ago. My wife also has a heart condition I am not going to put any undue stress on her for no reason.

Making amends for your wrongdoing does not cause stress, it alleviates it. It is hard work being a liar. Like i said, if she is serious, she will want to do this.
Weld, we are trying to help this man recover his marriage using MB concepts and you are on his thread promoting your own philosophy of dishonesty? You do understand that is in direct conflict with Dr Harley's position and is against the TOs on this site?
**edit**
Willical I suggest you ignore posters who go against Dr H's concepts. He has saved marriages - they have not. Plus they will encourage you to listen to your fears instead of fighting to make your marriage truthful.
A reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is to help others with MB concepts. If you can help this poster in that regard we encourage you to post. If not, then please refrain from posting. I see many personal philosophies being posted and it needs to stop. Any questions, shoot me an email.

Thank you.
Willical,

What some posters are feeling, I think, is that they wished someone in your position of knowing had been kind enough to tell them the truth.

From your description of this guy he sounds like a slick serial cheater who would continue to cheat and lie to his W. My MIL is such a victim and it's really ugly that everyone except her knew the real truth, she only had bad feelings. It was also tragic that she only found out the complete truth when she was too old to do anything except suffer.

God Bless
Gamma
On the telling your children. I think you may find that they have already suspected. I know that in my WH's case, he was never told about his parents' affairs, but he sure does know they happened. He hated his parents for it. Now, not learning the lessons that his parents could have taught him, he has repeated their choice, and he has left his family. It's too bad that his parents didn't teach him to be a better man.
Originally Posted by weld
Willical, My wife and I are very happy. In fact we are coming up on our 36Th anniversary. I posted somewhere that I had found the OM on face book. I found his wife first. At the time of the affair I did not know that he was engaged to this woman he is now married to. I could easily call or email her saying "hey while you were dating your husband he was screwing my wife" In reality there is nothing his wife or I could do about it because the affair is long dead. If I were to do that the one that would get hurt the most is my wife whom I deeply love. I am not for any reason under the sun going to do that. I have hurt my wife enough I am not going to dig up something from the past to hurt anyone. I know I will catch hell for this but right or wrong I am not going to intently hurt someone I love.


I don't see how the truth being told to the OMW is going to hurt you or your WW.

It will cause problems for the OM. And the OM's actions should cause him problems.

It's time for the OM to face the consequences for having an affair with your WW.

The OM got off twice. He had an affair and never had to face the consequences. Most likely when a WS does not have to face the consequences they usually go and find more victims.

You are advocating that the OM continues to be able to ruin more lives.
Originally Posted by willical
I just dont see the advantage to embarrising her and telling friends and family about this very private thing. Perhaps confronting the OM & OMW is in order, but even that seems more like a revenge/ego thing for me, when I look at it logically. I certainly dont see the need to involve mt 15 and 13 kids, they have enough on their plates.

This is what exposure is about, not embarrassing her. Read this link:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2559836#Post2559836
weld, no worries. By all, I'm done with this forum!
Originally Posted by willical
weld, no worries. By all, I'm done with this forum!

Why is that?
I think he does not like being asked to be truthful with his children and the betrayed wife, CV.

Remember when women and children were protected first? Ah those were the days.

Well the truth has a way of revealing itself, at least. It just would have been nice to see Weld man up.
Sad to see a man afraid of telling the truth.
Originally Posted by willical
How do I get the images and hatred out of my head to move on?

There is an excellent discussion in the RECOVERY forum which addresses triggers.

*** LINK *** to Thread discussing trigger management.

Best to you willical .

I hope this helps.
Originally Posted by willical
My wife had a 4 year affair,in which sex occured 2-3 times per week the entire period, additionally, there were vacation getaways, under the guise of business trips, movies, dinners, picnics, etc. They also claimed they loved each other then. My wife told me recently, says she was young, foolish, though she loved him and of course, I didn't give her any attention, which I probably didn't. After it ended in 1993, she stayed with me, all the way through, of which I was an active alcoholic until 2005. We have 2 children born together well after the affair and have built a pretty wonderful life. All that being said, I cant get the images out of my head. I love her, want to die with her and be happy. We have a super sex life, but I am distraught over the affair. I knew the guy. Know where he is now. He is still married to the same woman with kids. He told my wife that his wife tricked him into pregnancy in 1991/2. I think he manipulated her in a time that he saw she was vulnerable and used her for 4 years. I am not relieving her of any resonsibility, but want to FIX him! How do I get the images and hatred out of my head to move on?

I'm just sorry this thread veered away from what you were clearly asking for.
Your question could have been addressed before a discussion about exposing the affair.
dontknow
Willi,

I came to this thread late. I hope you are still reading. I have not read each and every post, but it seems to me you came here for some marriage building right?

If so, let's talk about marriage building which means for the moment that revenge on OM is not part of the picture, nor is telling your children.

What is in the picture right now is the two of you developing a plan to make your marriage better. Better you say? It was going great until your W told you the truth, then it wasn't better.

So let's work on that truth. I would strongly urge you to read His Needs Her Needs. I would strongly urge you to understand that her affair was her affair...not yours. She could have divorced you if she wanted to and easily because there were no children at the time, but she did not.

I would recommend that you sit down with your W and discuss how to address her feelings about your use of alcohol and one night stands and how to address her affair. You MUST understand that for her it was 20 years ago, but for you it is like yesterday as you just found out. Discuss this with her. Ask her for help and be willing to help her.

HELP HER? Why would you need to help her? That one is easy. As you addressed your alcohol, as you became the man you could be, as your marriage got better, she felt and feels increasingly bad for her betrayal, hence she told you. She still feels it and it hurts her.

Willi here is the odd thing about humans, they often connect more strongly when they help other people than when they are getting help. Your W needs your help, she is hurting. You need her help, you are hurting.

Figure out how you can help her and how she can help you. Use the tools that on this site to help each other. A main one is radical honesty. Another is giving one undivided attention. Care for one another and help one another.

Willi reach out to her and help her and you will begin to see some very interesting changes in her and when that happens you will also change and grow.

Willi this is an OPPORTUNITY to really get your marriage right and set for the rest of your lives.

Come talk about that OK? The other things people have suggested and your need for revenge on OM will be addressed after you and your W start to make plans and use those plans to improve your marriage and heal one another.

God Bless,

JL
Originally Posted by Just Learning
Come talk about that OK? The other things people have suggested and your need for revenge on OM will be addressed after you and your W start to make plans and use those plans to improve your marriage and heal one another.

Can you point me to the post that advocates getting "revenge" on the OM? crazy Rather I have seen people suggest EXACTLY what Harley suggests: exposing the affair. Exposing to the OM's wife has absolutely nothing to do with revenge, BUT WITH BASIC DECENCY. It has to do with telling her other victim the truth. Harley NEVER advocates revenge and certainly exposure is not a vengeful action, but a THERAPEUTIC ACTION. Exposure is GOOD for a marriage, not bad.

And no, Dr Harley does not suggest exposing the affair "after" there has been healing, but in order to faciliate healing. This is HOW his wife make amends for her affair.

In case you have any interest in Dr Harley's concepts, here are his comments on this issue:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.

As you already know, I�m a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency�letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others -- especially those who care for you the most -- should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you�holding you accountable." When Should An Affair Be Exposed?

So, no, it has nothing to do with "revenge," but with healing. Exposure is therapeutic....
What are you talking about JL? Are you seriously suggesting the poster lie to his childern and let the betrayed spouse figure stuff out for herself?
Originally Posted by willical
I am distraught over the affair.

I am sorry this vital fact that you provided was overlooked for awhile.
Discovery of adultery, no matter the time frame, is a crisis fraught with mental confusion and emotional anguish.
Getting through this is a process.
It's difficult to know just what to do, isn't it?

I do understand.
It's been over a decade, but I do remember feeling so distraught I was not functional.

If you do nothing else, please read the link to the RECOVERY forum that I posted and you can get some sort of an idea what the process of healing is all about.

Other issues can wait until you move from "distraught" to another, less vulnerable, less volatile emotional place.

I hope you return to the forum and begin again.
Know this. You and your marriage can both improve to the point of being better than before.

A marriage with RADICAL HONESTY is a good place to begin.
Read about RH in the BASIC CONCEPTS.






Mel,

Ok, this is making me mad. I was not talking to you, nor did I even imply that getting revenge on OM was part of MB. In fact I explicitly stated that it was NOT part of MB. He is the one that discussed his focus on OM and how he wanted some sort of revenge. I don't know why you have taken my comments so defensively or assumed I was attacking MB. I have been here much longer than you, and if I felt that the MB approach was bad I would not still be here.

My comment to him was very clear. Address his relationship with his W first. Start to heal it NOW! 20 years out, telling the W who may or may not know, is NOT high on the list of things to do given that there is NO indication of contact for 20 years. I am not saying he should not, I am saying in this case the order of events needs to change.

His W has not been in an affair for 20 years. He just found out and is stunned, he like all BS's is struggling with this, but it is his marriage, and his feeling that he is struggling with, not the presence of an OM that is long gone.

I AM NOT ATTACKING MB, but I am extremely agitated by the implication in your post and the one following that I am. If you are confused by what I say, ask me first to clarify before you go off.

JL
JL, there was NO misunderstanding at all about your point. The poster objected to exposure to the OMW, calling it "revenge," and you validated that notion. I am extremely agitated that posters who have been here less time than you have to correct that point, so I guess we are EVEN. I believe we have had a similar disagreements in the past when it came to Dr Harley's position on exposure. You can read Dr H's own quote for yourself above. Nowhere does Dr Harley tell posters to "put it off." Or call exposure "revenge." You told the man to put aside exposure, even to his kids, which you call "revenge." crazy

Here is what you said:
Originally Posted by JustLearning
If so, let's talk about marriage building which means for the moment that revenge on OM is not part of the picture, nor is telling your children.

Exposure is PART OF RECOVERY, part of "healing," it is not "revenge," so why in the world would it be put off? No one said you were "attacking" Marriage Builders, but others did see your advice did not line up with Dr Harley's views. Maybe you want to rethink your position?
JL,

His W has not been in an affair for 20 years. He just found out and is stunned.

JL, I will say that when you discover a long lost affair it does feel like the years in between the affair and discovery are at least tinted with the affair. And it is that tainting of those years that is the main component of revenge that grows rather than fades with time.

God Bless
Gamma
When there is an ongoing affair, exposure ASAP is really important to kill the affair.

This affair has been dead for many years.
IMO exposure can wait until this demolished individual can find a way to breathe again.
What's the rush?
Convince me why it's so important he expose right away. Remember, OMW already knew about the affair.

Again, where's the fire? think
Originally Posted by Pepperband
This affair has been dead for many years.
IMO exposure can wait until this demolished individual can find a way to breathe again.
What's the rush?
Convince me why it's so important he expose right away. Remember, OMW already knew about the affair.

The pressing exposure is with his kids and his close family members so he can recieve the support he needs. I don't believe it is "urgent" for him to expose to the OMW, but why would he wait? For what purpose?? Exposing to the OMW can only have the upside of facilitating his wife's fog.

Since exposure is a therapeutic part of recovery, in every way, why in the world would anyone advocate waiting?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Dr Harley DOES recommend exposing an affair, even if it is years after discover. So I would definitely expose the affair to the OM's wife and probably your children.

Here is my first post to this poster about exposure, and I did not tell him it was "urgent." However, for what possible reason would exposure be put off? If exposure is therapeutic and helpful to the recovery of the marriage, is there some reason I am not aware of that should inspire him to put this off? Shouldn't healing start NOW? Why later?

What am I missing? think
Exposure should happen ASAP. The affair is 20 years old to the OM and WW and it's brand new to the BH.

There is no harm by exposing ASAP. All the BH has to do is get the OMW on the phone and tell her what happened.

Those that say not telling the OMW is saying it's ok for three of the four spouses involved to know and leave the fourth one in the dark.

Lying by ommission is being justified by those that say not to expose the OMW.

This WW has only partially confessed. I not referring to a WW not giving all the times and places and what the did and was said.

She has not confessed to all the people that need to be told of her actions.

This OM has never been held accountable for invading a family as a thief in the night to leave a cancer to fester for 20 years.
Quote
The affair is 20 years old to the OM and WW and it's brand new to the BH.
This is the critical part emotionally. And this is what she just doesn't "get".

Dead for her, but devastatingly alive for him. This is a tough one here. Not quite sure how I would deal with this. Well, actually, I do, but I won't communicate it on the board.
OK, I am going to try this again. He is being pushed to expose her affair to the children and OMW. If exposure was the ONLY or the MOST IMPORTANT part of the MB program, Dr. Harley would not have written not one book, not two books but many books on building and rebuilding a relationship and a marriage.

A main Tenant of MB is honesty and even states in his book that radical honesty is between man and wife, not necessarily the children.

I will boil down my post to him in this sentence. He is crushed by his W's affair and he needs her help to recover.

As Harley pointed out many many years ago, meeting needs is a hit or miss business unless the couple know each others needs and make plans to address them.

I STRONGLY FEEL AND I CANNOT EMPHASIZE IT ENOUGH, THAT HE AND HIS W NEED TO HEAL AND THEY NEED TO DO IT WITH A PLAN.

His W is not in an affair, there is no rush to end the affair, Pep gets that why don't the rest of you? What is needed is the two of them figuring out a way for her to help him heal. She wants to help him. She apparently loves him and that love has grown until her guilt forced her to confess after....20 YEARS. They both need support but first the must have a plan.

I am not against exposure, never have been but of all of the things this poor man needs to be dealing with exposure is not it now. Perhaps in the future, and frankly the person that should expose to the children is his W, she is the one that cheated on him.

Recovery is not a cookbook, and if it was the Harley's would be out of business because they already wrote the book.

JL
Originally Posted by indiegirl
What are you talking about JL? Are you seriously suggesting the poster lie to his childern and let the betrayed spouse figure stuff out for herself?


So, yes you advocating these lies JL by referring to it as 'revenge'.

Willical, I think you are struggling with no support network. Please tell your friends and family to help support your marriage by telling them the truth. I can tell by your post that you need as many shoulders to lean on as possible. Dont fear peoples reactions.

As your wife is on board with recovery and beginning to practice radical honesty you can both expose together, side by side.
If you do exposure in the right way, it isnt vengeful it is support for you and your new, more honest relationship
**edit**
Exposure is not just a tool to end the affair.

It also
1) Heals the marriage by ending all the secrecy
2)Prevents a resumption of the A
3) Prevents accidental triggers if friends/family are aware of what happened
4)Allows the truth to be verified with the other spouse
5)Protects the other BS from being lied to
6)Provides accountability for the WS
7)Accountability provides reassurance for the BS
8) Allows the WS to repent and apologise to ALL they have hurt
9) The repentance of the WS provides further reassurance to the BS.
10) Support from those close to the marriage provides support to the BS in overcoming the resentment.

Dr H says there are only very specific circumstances, such as violent relationships, when exposure should not be used.

This is not one of them.

Mel has already posted Dr H's words on old affairs, so i will not repeat it.

I am q simply flabbergasted people are advocating lying instead of following MB advice on this thread

Originally Posted by weld
I am sure even Dr. Harley would agree with me that there are a few unique situations where it would be better to leave the past in the past.


Yes he does say there are exceptions. Melody Lane has posted a link where he describes those exceptions.

you can also call him on the radio if you would like to review the MB advice from Dr H himself.
Willical, is not the first BH to be oblivious about his WW doing her OM while their children know it. This affair could of happened this way his kids know and willical doesn't know that they know.

I have not seen the new George Cloony movie The Decendants, but this could be what happened to Willical's kids. Kid's know when things are wrong in the house.


Time for school for these kids:

These kids need to be told that it was always ok to talk about what they saw and suspected with mom. With both mom and dad.

That if mom asked them to keep it a secret that keeping that type of a secret was wrong. Wrong for mom to ask wrong for them to feel obligated to keep it. If this did happen they need to be told they were put in a wrong place by mom. Mom needs to apologize to the kids.

The kids need to apologize to the dad (now after being taught what they did back then was wrong). The dad to tell the kids it was ok because of the situation but they have learnt an important lesson that will serve them well through the rest of their lives. Then the group hug.

As to telling and shocking the OMW. She is being lied to everyday of her marriage. Odds are that Pride Of Spain OM got away with no consequences 20 years ago he has ruined many other marriages and hence repeatedly cheated on his BW.

Well as far as I am concerned the teller of the truth is not the shocker. The actions of the OM are what is going to cause the shock to the OMW. The BH did nothing to this OMW. Her own WH did this to her.

As to doing exposure for revenge. Revenge is not the reason to use exposure. I will not restate all the fine reasons for exposure. Indiegirl and melodylane have covered that well already.

But revenge is a consequence of exposure even if no revenge was sought. Set off an A bomb the fallout is the result.

AP�s don�t want exposure because they don�t want the fallout. They were selfish. Thought that if they keep the affair down low no one would be the wiser. And there would be no consequences.

Well WW took the odds. Thought she had a sure thing. WW bet the farm on not geting caught. Well as any where else you bet the house expects to get paid. Legal operation will lawyer you down into the ground. Illegal operation will break legs, give free plastic surgury.

Exposure has never resulted in organized leg breaking or organized facial reconstruction. And you can't file a suit in court for being exposed.

Well as when as a child you are taught not to place with matches. Then if you do so. Don�t complain if you get burnt.

And if it takes 20 years later to be burnt. Well who�s fault they lit a very slow fuse. The WW still lit the fuse.

The guilty party did the crime now they need to do the sentence.
Originally Posted by Just Learning
OK, I am going to try this again. He is being pushed to expose her affair to the children and OMW. If exposure was the ONLY or the MOST IMPORTANT part of the MB program, Dr. Harley would not have written not one book, not two books but many books on building and rebuilding a relationship and a marriage.

First off, no one said it was the ONLY part of the MB program. That is your own straw man. The reason exposure is being discussed so much is because as Harley said, "it is the first step toward redemption." He doesn't say the last step as you suggest. However, your second statement indicates you don't listen much to Harley if you don't understand that exposure is the MOST IMPORTANT part of recovery:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.

Exposure is such an important part of recovery that Dr Harley has rewritten HNHN and is rewriting Surviving an Affair to include it.

Originally Posted by Justlearning
A main Tenant of MB is honesty and even states in his book that radical honesty is between man and wife, not necessarily the children.

Read above, that is not his position at all.

Originally Posted by JustLearning
I will boil down my post to him in this sentence. He is crushed by his W's affair and he needs her help to recover.

I agree that he is crushed by her affair and that she needs to recover. That is WHY we are telling him to expose the affair, so he can get the support he needs and so she can actually RECOVER. She cannot recover as long as she keeps her affair secret. The more people who know, the more people to hold her accountable. In order for her to recover, she has to tell her other victim what she has done. She can't claim to be sincerely remorseful if she doesn't make sure the OMW knows what she did.

And I fully AGREE they should focus on other elements of the program too. But there is no reason to ignore this one important element or to put it off. There just is no good reason since it is a THERAPEUTIC step.

There is no reason to keep the affair secret, other than to avoid embarrassment. And that is the worst possible reason.
Just want to emphasize this one statement:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption."
here
ML,

One of the other striking features of this affair is that 3 of the 4 main players EXCEPT BH knew about it for some time. That is a difficult pill to swallow, in my case OM2 GF knew, but I'm not sure OMW knows as my W was in between GF and OMW.

God Bless
Gamma
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
[b]"What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption." here


The good doctor could not be clearer on this issue.

OK, it has been stated that the OMW "knows" about the affair by posters. I went back and looked at what the OP said about this.

Originally Posted by willical
by the way. The OM wife does know. She has known. She called my wife 20 years ago during and reamed her, but it continued. She told me all this. I'm not so sure about the "porr boundries around men" anymore, perhaps back then. She really is a different woman now and I am a different man. She doesnt want me to make contact for fear of how it will affect my kids.

My read of this is that his understanding that the OMW knows is from what his WW told him. Not because he has spoken to OMW himself.

The fact that WW doesn't want him to make contact with OMW is a big redflag that this is a lie.

For any lurkers out there, NEVER EVER take a wayward's word that the affair has been exposed to the OPS. ALWAYS call them up yourself and make sure they know the truth.

Besides, the fact that the affair continued for years after the supposed phone call by OMW is enough to warrant a phone call to her to make sure she knows the ENTIRE truth about the affair.
Originally Posted by Gamma
ML,

One of the other striking features of this affair is that 3 of the 4 main players EXCEPT BH knew about it for some time. That is a difficult pill to swallow, in my case OM2 GF knew, but I'm not sure OMW knows as my W was in between GF and OMW.

God Bless
Gamma

Been here too... My W got caught by OM2W. Called my wife, chewed her out and threatened her. We were unlisted, so OM2W went through the phone book and looked up our last name... Only a few of us here in town, all relatives (brothers and parents). Called my brother and since my brother did not know who she was, hung up on her. The A could've ended MONTHS earlier (Jan. instead of June)for me had she continued to go through the phone book and call my parents or other siblings and expose.

It wasn't until I caught them and exposed to OMW that I found this out. Exposure is SOOOOOO key here.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
OK, it has been stated that the OMW "knows" about the affair by posters. I went back and looked at what the OP said about this.

Originally Posted by willical
by the way. The OM wife does know. She has known. She called my wife 20 years ago during and reamed her, but it continued. She told me all this. I'm not so sure about the "porr boundries around men" anymore, perhaps back then. She really is a different woman now and I am a different man. She doesnt want me to make contact for fear of how it will affect my kids.

My read of this is that his understanding that the OMW knows is from what his WW told him. Not because he has spoken to OMW himself.

The fact that WW doesn't want him to make contact with OMW is a big redflag that this is a lie.

For any lurkers out there, NEVER EVER take a wayward's word that the affair has been exposed to the OPS. ALWAYS call them up yourself and make sure they know the truth.

Besides, the fact that the affair continued for years after the supposed phone call by OMW is enough to warrant a phone call to her to make sure she knows the ENTIRE truth about the affair.
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
Originally Posted by Gamma
ML,

One of the other striking features of this affair is that 3 of the 4 main players EXCEPT BH knew about it for some time. That is a difficult pill to swallow, in my case OM2 GF knew, but I'm not sure OMW knows as my W was in between GF and OMW.

God Bless
Gamma

Been here too... My W got caught by OM2W. Called my wife, chewed her out and threatened her. We were unlisted, so OM2W went through the phone book and looked up our last name... Only a few of us here in town, all relatives (brothers and parents). Called my brother and since my brother did not know who she was, hung up on her. The A could've ended MONTHS earlier (Jan. instead of June)for me had she continued to go through the phone book and call my parents or other siblings and expose.

It wasn't until I caught them and exposed to OMW that I found this out. Exposure is SOOOOOO key here.


Two very good posts.

And as Susie said you can't take a WW's word that the OMW knows. I have seen too many OMW here that were never told.
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