Marriage Builders
Hello,

I recently (Sunday July 15th) that my wife of 6 years has been having a 2-1/2 month online relationship with a man she met on some dating chat website.

Here is some background of us:

My Past marriage:
I was previously married before from 99'-04'. To make a long story short, I believe that she left because she had met another guy who worked in the same profession as she did (law enforcement). I didnt have full proof since she worked for the state gov't & used their phone system/email. Anyway, after about 3 months of her leaving, I eventually filed since I could not get her to cease contact with her 'friend' as she put it. By this time I had found this website & ordered Dr Harley's books. We were officially divorced in May 04'.

My Current Marriage:
About Sept 04', I met my current wife. We met on a dating website. We sent emails & talked on the phone all the time. I really felt a connection with her & trusted her since she was different type of person from my previous relationship.

After about a month or so of phone calls / emails, we arranged to meet. The online dating scene was very new to me, so actually meeting someone online felt strange. I went to where she lived (about 2-1/2 drive...I lived in Tallahassee, FL, she in Gainesville). We went out on a date to a fancy sushi place....I remember being really shy. Later on that night, we did become physical. I have to admit, it felt strange to do this. I remember her asking me if we were now bf & gf. I told her yes.

Anyway, she told me that she had been on dating sites for a few years & that she did meet some men on them. But that they never became serious. This did concern me though since I had gotten out a marriage that ended with probably infidelity.

We kept dating until that Christmas when I asked her to marry me. About 4-5 months later she moved up to be near me & got a job at the local hospital as a nurse.

Between getting married & now, we have had a few ups & downs. She complained to me that I was not the same person that she first met. That she felt annoyed by some of my habits such as...I've always been shy & have had a hard time looking at people when I talk. I had some issues with her as well.

About 4 years ago (2 years into marriage), we went to a marriage counselor & discussed some of these issues. It was during this counseling time that I discovered that she was contacting two men via texting & phone calls (3-4 months worth - about 300 texts/calls).

One she met on the internet before she met me & the other she knew personally as a nursing student.

As far as I could tell, these conversations were inappropriate in the fact that she would contact them when I was at work, on her way from work to home or when I was out of town. If they were ok conversations, then she should have been able to talk to them in front of me.

I remember reading her conversation to one guy (the nursing student guy�the one she had actually known) about how she wished that she had pursued a relationship with him.
She told him that I was a selfish only child that didn�t put anyone first in his life.
It really hurt me to read all that.

I exposed all this during one of our counseling sessions & we worked thru her doing this. To me I thought we had reconciled 7 she promised she would never do that to me again.

The guy she met online, has on occasion contacted her via text or facebook. I think he has even contacted her via facebook within the past 2 weeks�he always starts off by saying �Hey Sexy!�.


Current Situation:

My wife has always wanted a child. We found out that only IVF could help us. We went thru the process this past January & the doctor told us that she did not have enough eggs to make IVF worthwhile. But that donor eggs & adoption was an option.

My wife & I were hurt hearing this obviously. She decided that maybe taking a supplement (one she read about online) could help her produce more eggs. She was desperate to have her own biological child. Having a donor egg was out of the question for her since she thinks she could not get over the fact that the child is not biologically hers. I was more than ok with having a donor egg & would have supported her in any way.

I really thought that Feb, March & April, she was doing ok. I couldn't sense anything that made me think things were sad for her. But from about mid May till this past Sunday, I could really sense something was wrong. She was very distant to me, we weren't intimate, she started sleeping in our spare bedroom (saying I snored), and keeping her phone by her all the time.

I would go to work in the morning with her still asleep, then when I got back later, she would be on the couch with her phone or kindle. Our house was a mess, dirty dishes, etc...she would just stay on the phone & her kindle all day. I know she read romance novels on her kindle, even though she said that she didnt. One novel was the 50 Shades of Grey series. She liked the vampire romance novels too. I she let me read some...it seemed too sexual & explicit.

Recently I could not take any of the distant feelings I was getting from her. I had a notion to check her email. (I knew how to do this due to the last time she was in contact with other men.)

To my surprise I found about 2 months worth of conversations that had made with this guy she had met online. I think she had met him on a dating website such as BeNaughty, since one email that she received was an advertisement for this site. It doesnt matter which one it was, since she knew all about dating websites before she met me.

When I was reading all of it, I was trembling. My hand could not keep still. At first they had sent texts to each other. This progressed into more sexual talk. Eventually they made reference to phone calls to each other. They even talked about the pictures of his genitals that he sent to her. She sent pics of hers to him as well. I even think she sent pics of her fondling herself as well. They had cybersex talk that is too graphic & explicit to repeat. I believe they even talk on the phone as they mutually masturbated.

They talked about meeting one another & set a date. I think this guy is in Illinois but had some sort of connection with Orlando. My wife was prepared to go down there, meet with him & have their 'first date'.

She was doing all this when I was at work, while she was at work, while I was in the same room as her & while I was asleep. She would wait till 3 or 4 am to talk to him on the phone. I think she made reference that she would check on me to make sure I was asleep so that she could talk on the phone with him.

I knew that me confronting her would do no good. I left to my work so I could calm down. I then sent her mom an email telling her that something was happening btwn us. Her mom responded that she would talk to her later about it. But I could not wait for my wife to get her story together & tell my mother-in-law some lie. So I forwarded a transcript of cybersex talk to her mom. I had to expose to someone that my wife looked up to (her mom) if we were to get anywhere. She must have contacted my wife about it, b/c I got a text saying we needed to talk.

So I went back home & my wife was folding clothes. She didnt start talking to me about anything. I guess she was waiting to see what I knew. I told her what I found out. Her response was that she had been unhappy for a long time. I told her to stop, that I didnt want to hear it. That telling me this sort of stuff was just a justification she had worked out in her mind.

I asked her to end contact with this other guy�.she didn�t respond at all. So I knew my answer from her & left.

The next day (Monday) I took off work & loaded up all my belongings, clothes, etc. I told her that she could live in the house, that I had paid for this month�s mortgage.
I knew I could not live with her if she were to stay in contact with this other guy.

Her mom must have sent her an email telling her that she needed to end all contact with this other guy. Her mom told her that this was an evil act & that she did not need to belittle herself in doing this.

My wife texted me all that day saying that she was sorry for what had happened. That I had hurt her since her mom now knows what is going on. That I have ruined her relationship with her family.

We kept texting back & forth on Monday & Tuesday.
I asked her that if I never found out about all this, what was her initial plan going to be. She told me that she was going to wait until this weekend to tell me that we were separated. I asked her if she was going to ever let me know that this other guy was involved. She said that wouldn�t have let me know b/c she didn�t want to hurt me anymore than she had too.

She felt that this other relationship she has with this other guy, has nothing to do with us.
That we are just not meant to be with each other, that our personalities are too different.

I told her that she could stay in our house as long as she wanted & that I would be back to get the rest of my stuff.

Wednesday came & I felt that more exposure was needed. I believed she was still in contact with this other person, so I let a few of her friends know. I sent them emails describing what was going on. I did this is a calm way. In no way did I try to demonize her or say hurtful things about her. I just wanted help�an intervention.
I sent a copy of the transcript as an attachment. In my email I warned those that they did not have to read it since it was graphic. They would have to click on it separately in order to read it.

One of her friends then phoned her saying that they got the email from me & that I should have never gotten them involved�..they felt that her email had been hacked by me & that she should contact Yahoo in order to get it fixed. I really thought a friend could help us, but I guess not. I wonder what they would have done if I told them that she was addicted to heroin or cocaine. Would they have helped then.

My wife then started firing off texts to me that I have ruined her life by telling some of her friends. (I actually only emailed 6 or 7�I figured out a way to send the email to undisclosed recipients. Some didn�t get the email�it went to their spam folders).

She would say that she was going to have to find another job now & move far away from here. I told her that some did not get it & that I sent another email explaining to not read the previous email. I explained that if I didnt expose it all, no one would believe me. They would have just thought I was lashing out in revenge due to an argument that she I was having, etc.

I told her to tell her friends that I was crazy & going thru some tough stuff right now�that my head is not straight.

She responded that she didn�t know how my family could forgive her & how she could look them in the face.

As of now, I am not sure if she has stopped contact with this guy or not.
I sent her a letter yesterday saying that she can get forgiveness.
I told her that I know that I had not met her emotional needs & that I am prepared to do so. That we can work thru all this. And that we can work on being the best for each other.
The only stipulation is that she just needed to end her contact with this other guy.

She responded this morning saying that she has read my letter. She states that she needs time for her to process all this & that the other guy in no longer in the picture.
She doesn�t know if we can work this out or not, but that she still loves me whatever the outcome may be.

My cousin called me this morning saying that on my wife facebook page, that my wife friended this other guy on Thursday night.

So, here I am, in limbo I suppose. I want to work it out with her. As I have stated, we�ve had some fidelity issues in our relationship before.

I�m not sure what my next step is to be.

Me � 41
Her � 36
No children
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Hello,

Later on that night, we did become physical.

Sex on the first date with someone you met online. Bad idea


Run fast in the opposite direction.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I want to work it out with her.

Apparently, she wants to be single, or be married to you and act like she is single.

Quote
As I have stated, we�ve had some fidelity issues in our relationship before.

Yes. Patterns are significant red redflag redflag redflag

Quote
I�m not sure what my next step is to be.

Quite frankly, it does not appear that your wife has ever loved you the way a wife ought love her husband. What is your opinion about this?

Quote
Me � 41
Her � 36
No children

Well, without kids, your choices are a bit freed up.
I would accept that your wife is not and never has been marriage material and get a divorce. She has been trolling for studs for our entire marriage and has no intention of stopping. Se has a freeloaders worldview that holds the belief she is entitled to seek another man if something better comes along.

I would also suggest you stick around this forum so that you learn better skills in choosing a marriage partner. A woman who believes in having opposite sex friendships is dangerous to any marriage so that needs to be a knock out factor when choosing a mate in the future.

I am sorry to be such a downer, but there is nothing to save here. She will not change for you and he sooner you accept that, the sooner you can excise this toxic woman out of your life and find a more suitable mate.
Originally Posted by Justlooking24
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Hello,

Later on that night, we did become physical.

Sex on the first date with someone you met online. Bad idea


Run fast in the opposite direction.

I was thinking the same thing. WHO does that?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Justlooking24
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Hello,

Later on that night, we did become physical.

Sex on the first date with someone you met online. Bad idea


Run fast in the opposite direction.

I was thinking the same thing. WHO does that?


I know, I regret doing that. I guess we felt that we 'knew' each other since we had talked on the phone for about 6-8 weeks. But looking back, we should have waited.


Originally Posted by Jeff_R
But looking back, we should have waited.

5 bucks says your wife disagrees about waiting.
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I want to work it out with her.

Apparently, she wants to be single, or be married to you and act like she is single.

Quote
As I have stated, we�ve had some fidelity issues in our relationship before.

Yes. Patterns are significant red redflag redflag redflag

Quote
I�m not sure what my next step is to be.

Quite frankly, it does not appear that your wife has ever loved you the way a wife ought love her husband. What is your opinion about this?



Quote
Me � 41
Her � 36
No children

Well, without kids, your choices are a bit freed up.

I have to admit, that I have thought of this.
I can say something mean...that she is basically an infertile adulterer....


Quite frankly, it does not appear that your wife has ever loved you the way a wife ought love her husband. What is your opinion about this?


Well, we have had melt downs over the years. For instance, recently when I ordered us two pizzas for us, she started crying, saying that I didn't ask her what toppings she wanted on it...she explained that to her it meant that I didnt care about her.

On our recent anniversary in April, we went to a upscale resturant in town. She planned it since I was feeling down & just couldn't think straight (the previous week my employer laid off several employees...one being my best friend that I had known for 7 years.)

Well she was ok for planning it since she knew I was depressed some. We go to the place & have a good meal. I admit we tend to drink a little too much. And I have to say that when she drinks, she can get pushy.
Anyway, she tells me during the course of our dinner, that she has planned for us to go to another restaurant the next day (our actual anniv day). I was happy about that & asked her what the name of the place was.

Well she didnt want to tell me & wanted it to be a surprise. Eventually during our conversation, I got her to tell me the name of the restaurant. I said "oh yes, that is a nice place, Ive been there about 2 years ago". Her mood when straight down after I told her that.

I just kept saying that is was a great place & that I think it was a great idea. I guess she got frustrated that I had been there before & that I wouldnt stop talking about it. She then just blurted out "STOP BEING AN [censored]!".

I was so hurt by this. I didnt say anything to her the rest of the evening. We went home from the restaurant without saying anything to each other. I could tell that she was in her sad/mad combo. I don't think we said much to each other for about 2 days after that.

This is the type of behavior that I have gotten from her. She melts down & has a hard time apologizing to me.
Jeff, welcome to MB and so sorry about your situation.

First, you should not apologise or feel bad about the exposure.

Second, continue snooping, do not just believe that she has ended all contact with OM. Her words mean nothing right now. Would you be able to expose this affair to OMW, does OM have a wife?

Think very carefully what are your requirements to your WW in the future, do not just say that she is forgiven or something.

The very first thing is to complete this exposure, by exposing it to OMW first. If you want to know more about the proper exposure, read this - Exposure 101.

Second is to demand No Contact. No contact letter should be sent to OM(s). Here are some samples - No Contact Letters - Samples

This letter should be sent under your eyes, you should approve the content.

The next step would be to demand that she eliminated all conditions that made an affair possible. In her case, that would mean to ban all the online communication with opposite sex, no visiting such sites at all, you should only share one e-mail account together and that would be just enough. She should not have any opportunities to access these type of sites in the future. Please read what Dr Harley has said about How to survive infidelity and watch the video, too.

You should also make sure if this OM is the only one right now, or for how many has she been fishing during the time.
Have you considered a marital moratorium on drinking alcohol?

Here is why ......

Quote
I admit we tend to drink a little too much. And I have to say that when she drinks, she can get pushy.
Anyway, she tells me during the course of our dinner, that she has planned for us to go to another restaurant the next day (our actual anniv day). I was happy about that & asked her what the name of the place was.

Well she didnt want to tell me & wanted it to be a surprise. Eventually during our conversation, I got her to tell me the name of the restaurant. I said "oh yes, that is a nice place, Ive been there about 2 years ago". Her mood when straight down after I told her that.

I just kept saying that is was a great place & that I think it was a great idea. I guess she got frustrated that I had been there before & that I wouldnt stop talking about it. She then just blurted out "STOP BEING AN [censored]!".

She drinks and loses control of her emotions.
You drink and get her to reveal her secret surprise .... which was sort of mean.

Both of you should stop drinking, for a few months.
See if the relationship improves.
ZERO drinks.

She is probably drinking when she does her on-line man-fishing expeditions. Alcohol lowers inhibitions.

When you had your first date and jumped into bed, was alcohol involved?

Originally Posted by Mrs_Recon6mo
Jeff, welcome to MB and so sorry about your situation.

First, you should not apologise or feel bad about the exposure.

Second, continue snooping, do not just believe that she has ended all contact with OM. Her words mean nothing right now. Would you be able to expose this affair to OMW, does OM have a wife?

Think very carefully what are your requirements to your WW in the future, do not just say that she is forgiven or something.

The very first thing is to complete this exposure, by exposing it to OMW first. If you want to know more about the proper exposure, read this - Exposure 101.

Second is to demand No Contact. No contact letter should be sent to OM(s). Here are some samples - No Contact Letters - Samples

This letter should be sent under your eyes, you should approve the content.

The next step would be to demand that she eliminated all conditions that made an affair possible. In her case, that would mean to ban all the online communication with opposite sex, no visiting such sites at all, you should only share one e-mail account together and that would be just enough. She should not have any opportunities to access these type of sites in the future. Please read what Dr Harley has said about How to survive infidelity and watch the video, too.

You should also make sure if this OM is the only one right now, or for how many has she been fishing during the time.

I know I shouldnt feel bad about about exposing. She sure has been trying to guilt me about it though.
I just felt that if I didnt know anything about any of this, she would eventually tell me that she wanted a separation & that our relationship had little or no chance of recovering.
I would have been none the wiser about the affair.

Now with exposure, at least we have some chance.

Since she did this on a smart phone, my snooping is limited.

I also no longer live in our house. I have moved all my personal belongings out & am living with relatives in town.

So far, she is still at our house. I have no idea what she is doing though. She may be packing up her stuff & getting ready to move out. I really don't want her to do this.

My fear is that she will move out to an apartment & that I will be stuck with the house. She'll still be on the mortgage though, no matter what happens I won't let her out of it.

From what I can tell in the conversations, he is a single guy. I think he says that he was married at one time. He is 31 & lives with roommates.

If he is in Illinois, how can she think she can any sort of relationship with him. I mean in their texts, they tell each other that they love one another.
I'm not sure I can follow her logic on this. It just doesnt make sense to get involved in a long distance thing.

I did send her a No-Contact letter in my recent email. I told her that sending it to him is the first step.

If we can get to reconciliation, then yes there will be rules on how we will go about doing it.


I just not sure though, if she can get past me exposing to some of her friends & to her mom. She is so embarassed that she feels that she can no longer look any one in the face.

She said that I should have just told people that she was a "cheating liar" and left it at that. But I didnt think anyone would believe me if I didnt show proof.
She feels that I have been more cruel to her than she has to me by exposing to others the details.

Look, this is wayward talk. When I was a WW, I was furious after my H exposed, I went ballistic, said that NOW we won't have a CHANCE because of HIM... But here we are. Stop paying so much attention to what she says right now, she is not thinking straight. These are just words.

Also, move back to your house. The whole house in WS hands can mean a continuous disaster.

And IF she gets serious one day, she will get past anything and be THANKFUL to you about the exposure.
Jeff, can you get the house on the market and get it sold?
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Have you considered a marital moratorium on drinking alcohol?

Here is why ......

Quote
I admit we tend to drink a little too much. And I have to say that when she drinks, she can get pushy.
Anyway, she tells me during the course of our dinner, that she has planned for us to go to another restaurant the next day (our actual anniv day). I was happy about that & asked her what the name of the place was.

Well she didnt want to tell me & wanted it to be a surprise. Eventually during our conversation, I got her to tell me the name of the restaurant. I said "oh yes, that is a nice place, Ive been there about 2 years ago". Her mood when straight down after I told her that.

I just kept saying that is was a great place & that I think it was a great idea. I guess she got frustrated that I had been there before & that I wouldnt stop talking about it. She then just blurted out "STOP BEING AN [censored]!".

She drinks and loses control of her emotions.
You drink and get her to reveal her secret surprise .... which was sort of mean.

Both of you should stop drinking, for a few months.
See if the relationship improves.
ZERO drinks.

She is probably drinking when she does her on-line man-fishing expeditions. Alcohol lowers inhibitions.

When you had your first date and jumped into bed, was alcohol involved?


I don't think me getting her to reveal where the restaurant was mean.....I may have asked her once or twice. She told me & then I told her that it was a great place & that I appreciated her picking a place that I liked.


She drinks wine all the time. She goes out to Publix & buys several liter bottles...chardonnays, etc.
She'll have a full glass just about every night or so.
She thinks drinking is fine & that it doesnt change her at all...I know different.


Yes, on our first date we did have a few martinis at the restaurant. I don't remember if we had drinks when we got back to her place or not. But back then, like now, she did have a stash of different liquors.
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Have you considered a marital moratorium on drinking alcohol?

Here is why ......

Quote
I admit we tend to drink a little too much. And I have to say that when she drinks, she can get pushy.
Anyway, she tells me during the course of our dinner, that she has planned for us to go to another restaurant the next day (our actual anniv day). I was happy about that & asked her what the name of the place was.

Well she didnt want to tell me & wanted it to be a surprise. Eventually during our conversation, I got her to tell me the name of the restaurant. I said "oh yes, that is a nice place, Ive been there about 2 years ago". Her mood when straight down after I told her that.

I just kept saying that is was a great place & that I think it was a great idea. I guess she got frustrated that I had been there before & that I wouldnt stop talking about it. She then just blurted out "STOP BEING AN [censored]!".

She drinks and loses control of her emotions.
You drink and get her to reveal her secret surprise .... which was sort of mean.

Both of you should stop drinking, for a few months.
See if the relationship improves.
ZERO drinks.

She is probably drinking when she does her on-line man-fishing expeditions. Alcohol lowers inhibitions.

When you had your first date and jumped into bed, was alcohol involved?


I don't think me getting her to reveal where the restaurant was mean.....I may have asked her once or twice. She told me & then I told her that it was a great place & that I appreciated her picking a place that I liked.


She drinks wine all the time. She goes out to Publix & buys several liter bottles...chardonnays, etc.
She'll have a full glass just about every night or so.
She thinks drinking is fine & that it doesnt change her at all...I know different.


Yes, on our first date we did have a few martinis at the restaurant. I don't remember if we had drinks when we got back to her place or not. But back then, like now, she did have a stash of different liquors.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Jeff, can you get the house on the market and get it sold?


I don't think the market is good where we are (Tallahassee FL)
I mean it is a dry market right now. We'd have to go for a 'short sale' which I have heard of before.

If this gets to the point that she wants to divorce, then we will try to sell. But I think I am going to be stuck with mortgage payments. Maybe I could work out a plan to get her to pay some, but I doubt it.
Originally Posted by Mrs_Recon6mo
Look, this is wayward talk. When I was a WW, I was furious after my H exposed, I went ballistic, said that NOW we won't have a CHANCE because of HIM... But here we are. Stop paying so much attention to what she says right now, she is not thinking straight. These are just words.

Also, move back to your house. The whole house in WS hands can mean a continuous disaster.

And IF she gets serious one day, she will get past anything and be THANKFUL to you about the exposure.



Do you really think I should move back into our house with her?

Jeff, do you realistically believe you can change her? Her affairs are not a one time thing, but a way of life that she has never changed despite being married. How will you change her?

Because unless you can get her to change, this is hopeless.

Also, you can install spyware on her iPhone. Not that I think it would make any difference because you already know she cheats and is very committed to that lifestyle.
No, I don't think I can change her. Since the other time of catching her, I did check her facebook, email, etc. I'd see her looking for one of her past boyfriends & befriending him. I think she engaged in small talk with him...asking him about his life, family, etc.

She knows how I feel about all that, but I guess she feels that these people are her friends & that she should be able to talk to them.

Nope, I won't be able to get close to her cell phone now.
You know though, I did have a 6th sense that something was going on & bought spyware for her phone the day before & found out about all this stuff.

I thought about posting her conversation transcript somewhere so people can really tell me if what I am reading is for real.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Originally Posted by Mrs_Recon6mo
Look, this is wayward talk. When I was a WW, I was furious after my H exposed, I went ballistic, said that NOW we won't have a CHANCE because of HIM... But here we are. Stop paying so much attention to what she says right now, she is not thinking straight. These are just words.

Also, move back to your house. The whole house in WS hands can mean a continuous disaster.

And IF she gets serious one day, she will get past anything and be THANKFUL to you about the exposure.



Do you really think I should move back into our house with her?

Yes, I do. No matter what your plan for the future is - to try to reconcile or call it quits.
Originally Posted by Mrs_Recon6mo
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Originally Posted by Mrs_Recon6mo
Look, this is wayward talk. When I was a WW, I was furious after my H exposed, I went ballistic, said that NOW we won't have a CHANCE because of HIM... But here we are. Stop paying so much attention to what she says right now, she is not thinking straight. These are just words.

Also, move back to your house. The whole house in WS hands can mean a continuous disaster.

And IF she gets serious one day, she will get past anything and be THANKFUL to you about the exposure.



Do you really think I should move back into our house with her?

Yes, I do. No matter what your plan for the future is - to try to reconcile or call it quits.


I will see what she says tomorrow. I don't want to run her off.

At the time, me moving out was the only way I could deal with this. Being around her only hurt me more.


Maybe you should really think about your plan for the future, we already know that she is a wayward, no transcripts needed.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
No, I don't think I can change her. Since the other time of catching her, I did check her facebook, email, etc. I'd see her looking for one of her past boyfriends & befriending him. I think she engaged in small talk with him...asking him about his life, family, etc.

She knows how I feel about all that, but I guess she feels that these people are her friends & that she should be able to talk to them.

Nope, I won't be able to get close to her cell phone now.
You know though, I did have a 6th sense that something was going on & bought spyware for her phone the day before & found out about all this stuff.

Unless she makes a dramatic personal change and agrees to end all opposite sex friendships, become completely transparent and commits to the marriage, this is hopeless and you are better off cutting your losses before you lose more. The longer you are married to her, the more you will lose.
"I will see what she says tomorrow. I don't want to run her off."

She ran off a long time ago. She is long gone.
Jeff, were you legally divorced from your former marriage when this relationship began?

I think you picked a wrong'un at a very vulnerable time in your life.

Were you happy in your life at this time? Fess up. You were more concerned in finding someone to help you feel better than making smart choices, right?

I agree with the others, you should stick around here, learn what can be done to heal you in a personal recovery and what you need to seek from a truly appropriate partner in life.

I'd concentrate on exposing OM for now and see a lawyer who is a bulldog about protecting you in a D.

Have your family been exposed to as well?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I will see what she says tomorrow. I don't want to run her off.

At the time, me moving out was the only way I could deal with this. Being around her only hurt me more.


If your plan is to try and reconcile, you won't do it while she has an entire house and privacy in which to carry on her As.

If it was ME, I'd go home, kick her out, change the locks and see a lawyer about making sure I got as much as I could in the D.

(Keep a recorder on you though to prevent her falsely accusing you of violence)

But if you want to try reconcillition, I would do the above but give her a chance to stay if she agrees to recovery conditions in full, and writes an NC letter to OM.

We already know what someone addicted to the cheap, easy attention of affairs 'will say tomorrow'

Whatever will get her the privacy/permission to have As and keep you on the backburner too.

I would strongly counsel you to NOT listen to anything she says and instead insist on what must be done.

Onboard with the marriage or out.
I think stated his divorce was finalized about 4-5 months before he met current wife.

Jeff, you sound like the kind of who believes in love and marriage. But I think you are also one of those men who makes poor choices in a partner, perhaps it's because you are willing to ignore the red flags when dating (the behavior of your potential girlfriend reflects the behavior of your wife). I think it's because you built a false intimacy and that you are one of those romantics who only wants to believe the good in people. People like that always get hurt by those willing to take advantage.

I agree with Mel that this is a habitual adulterer and that it would be wise to get legal counsel and then take a good hard look at MB material so you do not repeat this mistake with #3. She chose to do these things, your ex-wife chose to do those things, the only thing you can control is how to avoid those women in the first place.

I met my husband online as well. He later told me (years later...) that he was shocked that I was the only girl who didn't offer to go back home with him that night. So, I suppose it's common these days (btw I was 23 so not exactly old-fashioned?) but I think that's an interesting way to gauge someone.
"I met my husband online as well. He later told me (years later...) that he was shocked that I was the only girl who didn't offer to go back home with him that night. So, I suppose it's common these days (btw I was 23 so not exactly old-fashioned?) but I think that's an interesting way to gauge someone."

Wow, you just told my story! Before I went out on a date with my husband (first date in 21 years) I told him that if he put his hands on me it was all over! I learned in later years this was not the norm with other women he had met on the Internet.
Goodness I appreciate all the great responses....

Yes I have expose to my family, my relatives, my cousin that is facebook friends with her, etc.

I've exposed to her mom & her brother. Her brother is a very good guy that home schools kids in a Christian atmosphere.

My aunt was over here awhile ago & we talked. I told her the whole story & she could not understand why I was even thinking about reconciliation with her.

But someone hit it the nail on the head about me...I am a softy I suppose. I do believe in love & marriage.

I think I am one of those that believes that he has to have someone in order to be happy....and maybe in this case, someone that is all wrong for him.

I guess I have a fear of being alone.
My wife now & ex-wife felt this way too I guess, since they had someone on the back burner.

part of me feels like I should go reach out to her & tell her that everything will be ok. I know this sounds crazy.

My mother feels that if my wife had the money, that she would have left already & got on an airplane to go see this guy.
Its just that she doesnt have the money, so she is stuck here.

Right now from what she has told me, she is not talking with her parents at all.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Jeff, were you legally divorced from your former marriage when this relationship began?

I think you picked a wrong'un at a very vulnerable time in your life.

Were you happy in your life at this time? Fess up. You were more concerned in finding someone to help you feel better than making smart choices, right?

I agree with the others, you should stick around here, learn what can be done to heal you in a personal recovery and what you need to seek from a truly appropriate partner in life.

I'd concentrate on exposing OM for now and see a lawyer who is a bulldog about protecting you in a D.

Have your family been exposed to as well?



Yes I met her about 4 months after my divorce was final.


Yes I think you, like my family has said, are right...I feel that I need someone in my life to be happy. I miss getting hugs ,kisses, going places together...I miss being around someone that likes to be around me.


Yes, my family & her family know everything that has gone on. They have read the transcripts of her conversations with this other guy.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
But someone hit it the nail on the head about me...I am a softy I suppose. I do believe in love & marriage.

I think I am one of those that believes that he has to have someone in order to be happy....and maybe in this case, someone that is all wrong for him.


Oh you aren't a softy because you want someone in your life. That's what we all want.

But someone who makes you happy LONG TERM is essential. Pretty much anybody can make us happy SHORT term with a couple of needs, etc like affection.

Dr H says we should date at least 30 people before marriage in order to choose someone intelligently from a wide enough group of candidates. I know you have implied you are somewhat introverted, but that's OK. There are at least 30 introverted women out there who would despise an extroverted BF. You could be one of their 30 dates and vice versa. Dr H says if we date 30 people in a year we will find our ideal match.

I stress this because you are clinging to this WW as though she is your only chance of getting ENs met in future. She isn't. She's an option, and following her adultery a highly disposable one.


Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Yes I met her about 4 months after my divorce was final.


Yes I think you, like my family has said, are right...I feel that I need someone in my life to be happy. I miss getting hugs ,kisses, going places together...I miss being around someone that likes to be around me.

There are other people that will like to be around you!

I'm glad you waited until you were divorced. I would also say wait until you are also happy. Make a fulfilling single life. Friends and fun - and definitely going places! If you date while your wounds are bleeding you will only attract vultures.

I suspect your WW is a vulture who picked you up because she felt she could cheat on you if she caught you in your weakened state.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
My aunt was over here awhile ago & we talked. I told her the whole story & she could not understand why I was even thinking about reconciliation with her.


Oh I do. You have a lovebank for her and they aren't imaginary things. There's no off button.

But if you were to go into Plan B you could close that lovebank and distance yourself. Divorce hurts less after Plan B. I had a massive LB for my husband and it is virtually all gone. My D is nearly final and I am VERY happy!

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Yes, my family & her family know everything that has gone on. They have read the transcripts of her conversations with this other guy.


I am so glad. You will need their support for the hard work to heal yourself in the months ahead.
I guess recently I just wanted to be with her even if she didn't meet my emotional needs....I know that sounds crazy.


I've never said anything negative in front of anyone, but here it goes:


We haven't been intimate in say 2-3 months. She told me that she has been on & off her cycle. Which could be the truth, since she told me this sometime in March or so. And she did go by the doctor & get meds to help her cycle.

Our house is messy, which is a big issue for me...she leaves dirty dishes by the couch & coffee table. She'll leave stuff like that for days, sometimes weeks.
I've found dirty glasses & bowls by her bed. Empty wine glasses can sit for days on the coffee table. Our dining room table has mail on it & some of her personal work papers. She won't clean up after her cats when they have an hair ball accident. (She had 2 cats when we met).

When we go out to a restaurant, you'd think she was a food critic. We went to a new independently owned BBQ place in town for lunch one time. After we got the food, she complained that the food was not hot or whatever, who knows. She refused to eat at all. I inhaled all my food so that we could go somewhere else in order for her to get some food that she could eat.

One time I took her to a Blues Club in town that has live music acts...she complained that she didnt want to be there at all. It was like being with a spoiled 13 year old...she pouted till I took her home.

We went to New Orleans last year for Halloween. We bought costumes so that we could walk down Bourbon Street. I'd never been before. She had. Well, the rest of her friends didnt have full costumes like we had, so she felt a little out of place. When we stopped in to see some live music at one of the bars, she didnt care for it. But her friends were into it. Well she sulked in the corner until we left. I think I remember that she was crying a little as well. One of her friends asked me what was wrong...I told her that she was pouting..lol


I think you would heal very quickly in Plan B.

Quite simply you aren't getting anything out of this marriage.

Prepare for it by clicking the link in my signature.

Give her a chance to get on board, with MB conditions if you like. We can advise you on what conditions to demand.

But get Plan B lined up correctly. You may need to enter it quickly.
I think I did a partial plan 'B'...
I emailed her this:



_____,

I wanted you to know by me writing this that I am committed to trying to save our relationship as much as possible. I do love & care for you very much. I want to come home & be with you very much. You do not have to respond to this, I just wanted to send this to you to show you that I care very much.

I know that you are upset that I have exposed this to others, but I felt that it was the best course of action. I really felt that this was needed so that you could see that ending this outside relationship was the only way to go. I knew if we kept it all secret, that meant that you could continue contact with him & that you would eventually go down to meet him. My goal is to try to stop this however I can.

One of my marriage books talks about how to do this exposing. It says that �the more people who know about what I do in my most private moments, the safer I am to others. Infidelity is one of the most painful experiences one spouse can inflict on the other, and it's far less likely to take place, or continue to take place, when everyone knows about it.� This is what I took to heart & tried to implement in order to save us. Helping keep this a secret would just enable the addiction and prolong the agony. In no way did I do this in order to hurt or damage you. It was not meant as revenge or to damage how others see you. I was just hoping someone could help us other than just myself.
I regret letting anyone know the details, but no one would have believed me if I didn�t. I am not sure who knew before Sunday, but I tend to think that they would have just thought I was a crazy husband that could not accept the fact that we were falling apart.

I also really think that if your mom didn�t know what was going on & the details about it, that you would have no incentive to end this outside relationship. Many feel that the people you have respect for, in this case your mom (a wise person in our lives), should know what is going on.

You gave me every indication that you were not going to cease contact with this other person when I first confronted you. I asked you to end it with him & I did not get a response. I wanted you to at least tell me that you would end it & then we could have talked about what our next step would be.
Over the course of Sunday to Tuesday night, I waited for you to tell me that you have ended it. I was in agony during this time. I knew then that this needed more exposure so that you could see that ending this with him was the best thing to do.

The one thing that I am asking you now to do now is to end and cease all contact with this other person. I am pleading with you to do this. We can then start to talk, possibly repair what has happened & move on with our lives with a fresh start. I know we can do this. Freedom from all this can be gotten. I know we can get forgiveness & love. So don't worry about that.

I also really think that resuming contact with your mom could help you as well. She wants to help you so much. You are her child & she loves you very much. She wants you to be safe too.
You are not a bad person or evil as you have put it. I know the Susan that is inside you and that person is kind & loving person. The one I really love & care about. My heart is soft & tender for that person. You are still that same person.

I now know that I have not met your most important emotional needs & that it is the reason why you are unhappy. I apologize for that. I also know that we had talked in the past about what you wanted in order for you to feel happy. But to be honest, I really just didn�t understand what I needed to do in order for you reach happiness. I am sorry for my ignorance in that respect.

But I�d like to be given at least the chance to see what those needs are & how I could go about meeting them. That�s all I ask. Now that I understand some of what has happened, I believe that you desire conversation and affection. I wished I had been providing these to you all along. I know that I can learn what those needs are & then try to meet them for you.

Below is what is called a no-contact letter that others have used in similar circumstances. Please send this to the other person & we can continue with any healing that we potentially can have.

I truly love you. I want us to heal from all this & I know that we can. I want to come home very much. I miss being there with you. I know you were concerned about forgiveness, but I know we can get this.

Forgiveness will happen, you have nothing to worry about this. I also really believe that a relationship with God is the only way now. That is something I want to work on. If you want this too, please let me know�I want to do this with you. We need God in our lives. I do this because I love & care for you. I have an open heart & arms waiting for you.
Love, jeff

------------------------------
Dear ____,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best wife that he deserves and he to be the best husband that I deserve.

Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,
Her response was basically that she needs time to process this all since she has been on a roller coaster.
That she doesn't know what to do right now.

Any advice on what I should do now?
No that is not Plan B. It is Plan A. Plan A is where you negotiate with the WS to end the A. Your letter is pure Plan A.

Plan B is solely for your protection and healing. It means she will not be able to contact you directly and you will not even hear any direct news about her. You will need to ask a level headed friend to be an intermediary to prevent direct contact.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Her response was basically that she needs time to process this all since she has been on a roller coaster.

Translation: I don't wanna and you can't make me.

She thinks you won't take action.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Any advice on what I should do now?


Read the link in my sig and get legal advice in preparation for Plan B.

Then come back here for further advice.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Her response was basically that she needs time to process this all since she has been on a roller coaster.
That she doesn't know what to do right now.

Any advice on what I should do now?
Jeff, with all due respect, she knows exactly what she wants to do, but with your exposure she can't figure out how to do it. Her devious little secrets have been exposed for the world to see, and she can't figure out how to continue her way of life now that she is under a microscope. That's her only roller coaster. It has nothing to do with her "feelings" for you. It has only to do with her way of life being brought to the light of day. At the risk of sounding really insensitive, she sounds like a textbook narcissist. All about her, and her only.

I truly do wish it was a different scenario, and there was something there to work on, but with no kids and a history of this kind of blatant behavior, I can't imagine why you would want to try and work on things. You can bet on this; even if you were able to bust this one up, you can take it to the bank that it will happen again and you'll find yourself right back here saying, "Well, you guys were right".

Why would you want to subject yourself to this mess again when there are SO many women out there worthy of you?

So sorry you find yourself here, but be glad you are under the circumstances.
Oh my, I read the Plan B.... I am really hesitant about cutting off all contact with her.

My first thought is to not initiate any contact with her.
And let her do all the contacting.

I want to give her every chance to come back, I don't want to push her away at all.

I don't want to mention the word separation to her..
She did ask me this earlier this week..."are we separated or more than this.."

I told her at the time, that I was unsure & that I needed time to think.

-------------

There is something that I would really like to know from everyone reading my situation.

Would you stay & try to work this out?

Or would you just go ahead & cut your losses...and leave her?

I'd like to know why for each case.

I know that everyone is an individual & has different reasoning, but hearing people state their opinions, helps me see a perspective on life.

Originally Posted by TigerWes
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Her response was basically that she needs time to process this all since she has been on a roller coaster.
That she doesn't know what to do right now.

Any advice on what I should do now?
Jeff, with all due respect, she knows exactly what she wants to do, but with your exposure she can't figure out how to do it. Her devious little secrets have been exposed for the world to see, and she can't figure out how to continue her way of life now that she is under a microscope. That's her only roller coaster. It has nothing to do with her "feelings" for you. It has only to do with her way of life being brought to the light of day. At the risk of sounding really insensitive, she sounds like a textbook narcissist. All about her, and her only.

I truly do wish it was a different scenario, and there was something there to work on, but with no kids and a history of this kind of blatant behavior, I can't imagine why you would want to try and work on things.

Why would you want to subject yourself to this mess again when there are SO many women out there worthy of you?

So sorry you find yourself here, but be glad you are under the circumstances.


Yes I can see that she can be a narcissist. It has been all about her. After I exposed she was so worried about who might know...that her mom now thinks of her differently....that her friends will know what is going on....

And yes, my mother & aunt have stated the same thing about me wanting to put up with this mess. I guess deep down, I feel it will be hard to find someone that wants a man that has been married...twice...its even hard for me to type that.
I would end the marriage because there is nothing here to save. This is not a one time mishap committed by a otherwise good person. This is a way of life for a serial cheater.

Your situation is hopeless unless she makes radical changes in her lifestyle. You and I both know she is not going to do that for you. That is not an "opinion," but a matter of FACT. All the "opinions" in the world will not change the truth of your situation.

The fact that you don't comprehend this truth tells me you have a serious problem with poor judgement. Your history with unstable women should tell you that but you don't seem to learn from your mistakes.

I say this as a person who has made lots of mistakes in my past. If you don't start learning from your mistakes and begin using reason and logic in your decisions, you are going to have a very sad future.

Your emotions have led you to some very bad places because emotions have no intelligence. Your future is not bright unless you change that.
To summarize, I don't see that she is the problem. The problem is your own poor judgement that guides poor decision making.

Surely you can conclude that life with a serial cheater will be a life of hell? And surely you can conclude she will never change for you? If you can use your powers of reason to see these basic truths, then you should also conclude that you should just get out before you lose more.

She will eventually divorce you when she has taken as much as she can anyway.
you asked for opinions.

when my H had his a, despite all the years we had spent together, if we did not have a child i may have gone to plan d (but who can say at this late date). having a child together made me want to keep the family together if at all possible. we ALSO had a long history of M and non-adulterous behaviour.

however, now that i have been through that experience, any further incidents of adultery-like behaviour WILL result in a D. i am NOT going through that again, ever. MB has made me stronger as a person, and with an understanding of what it takes to have a good M; i won't waste myself on someone undeserving. thanks to MB, my H has learned to be deserving of me.

you have been married a short time. you have no children. your spouse has a lifestyle problem (it's ongoing, not a disastrous one off). you are still young.

it is every spouses OWN decision whether to end the M or not. only you can decide. it is your right to leave after an a. it is also your right not to, but you should consider whether your souse is remorseful, has ended the a, and is willing to work on the M.

sorry, this is rambly. my point, i think, is that recovery is a boatload of work for a VERY long time. is it worth it for you?

i am very happy to have a better husband and an intact family. the result is good enough to help overcome the a - MB has made an incredible difference to our M. we also had enough history prior to the a to make it worthwhile to recover the M.

sorry - i realise this is too long and repetitive, but don't have time to edit right now :O)
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
To summarize, I don't see that she is the problem. The problem is your own poor judgement that guides poor decision making.

Surely you can conclude that life with a serial cheater will be a life of hell? And surely you can conclude she will never change for you? If you can use your powers of reason to see these basic truths, then you should also conclude that you should just get out before you lose more.

She will eventually divorce you when she has taken as much as she can anyway.


I see what you are saying. You are right.

I am a person on logic & reasoning...and this all makes sense.
It really does.

My family read some of these comments, & told me to print them out so they can remind me what was said.

I guess deep down I want to help her do the right thing.
That she is a lost soul that needs help.
But she is a grown 37 year old woman, that should know better.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Oh my, I read the Plan B.... I am really hesitant about cutting off all contact with her.

My first thought is to not initiate any contact with her.
And let her do all the contacting.

I want to give her every chance to come back, I don't want to push her away at all.

I don't want to mention the word separation to her..
She did ask me this earlier this week..."are we separated or more than this.."

I told her at the time, that I was unsure & that I needed time to think.

-------------

There is something that I would really like to know from everyone reading my situation.

Would you stay & try to work this out?

Or would you just go ahead & cut your losses...and leave her?

I'd like to know why for each case.

I know that everyone is an individual & has different reasoning, but hearing people state their opinions, helps me see a perspective on life.


Plan B cuts you off from contacing her but it does not cut off her chances of contacting you.

She is free at any time to contact your intermediary (IM).

Your intermediary will insist she fulfil all MB conditions and prove herself before allowing contact with you.

But I think you and I both know she won't.

However knowing she is not contacting your IM, not serious and that you've done all you could will remove all doubts.

I suggest Plan B so you can get on with your own healing without any doubts and without being manipulated.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I guess deep down I want to help her do the right thing.
That she is a lost soul that needs help.
But she is a grown 37 year old woman, that should know better.


Plan B will give her a chance to see what D is really like, what being without you is really like. If she still does not contact your IM promising remorseful actions, then she has made her choice as a grown woman.
One of the reasons that exposure won't help in your situation is because the power of exposure lies in its ability to pierce the fog. Your wife is not in a fog. This is NORMAL for her, so the weapon of exposure will avail you nothing, IMO.

If you agree with me on these 2 points:

1. that your marriage is hopeless unless she makes radical personal changes

and

2. that YOU cannot change her

....then you should be willing to take it to the next step. File for divorce NOW and then go to her and say I will give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness and demonstrate radical changes while the divorce is being processed. If you can demonstrate radical changes in that time, I will consider dropping the divorce. If not, we will be divorced.

If you make that offer, you win either way. If she changes - which I assure you she won't - you will have a great marriage. If not, then you will be divorced. You can't lose if you follow that plan.

You need to file for divorce NOW and get legal protection because she views you as a personal ATM to plunder and rape. This way you will be protected no matter what.

In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. Otherwise you want to get divorced. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc - complete access to her cell phone, bank account, email account

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

7. get rid of her computer and agree to never go on a computer unless you are there

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage with a serial cheater.

And it is not enough that she AGREES to those changes. Only actions will suffice. Make sure she understands that because any half witted liar can agree to anything just keep her sugar poppa daddy. Make it clear you will give her NO money and no support until and unless you see radical, demonstrable, convincing changes over a period of time.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I guess deep down I want to help her do the right thing.
That she is a lost soul that needs help.
But she is a grown 37 year old woman, that should know better.


Plan B will give her a chance to see what D is really like, what being without you is really like. If she still does not contact your IM promising remorseful actions, then she has made her choice as a grown woman.[/quote]


I see what you are saying.
That is a good clever use of my own words of a 'grown woman'.

You don't think she has the willingness to go thru with changing herself? I'm asking b/c I don't know how people act, in general.

The suggestion was made that she could be labeled as a narcissist. I haven't thought of that before.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I guess deep down I want to help her do the right thing.
That she is a lost soul that needs help.
But she is a grown 37 year old woman, that should know better.
Jeff, you simply cannot help people that are unwilling to help themselves. You can't do it for them. They have to have one seriously strong desire and willingness to make some massive lifestyle changes, and frankly, I don't think she has it in her even if she had the slightest desire to. Like you said, at 37 years of age, she hasn't figured this out yet. Think she'll figure it out in the next few years? Sorry, but I kinda doubt it.

And you're wrong about being twice divorced and not being an attractive option for women. Women are much more understanding than you think about your situation. Don't let that be a deterrent for doing what is best for you.

It's not worth it.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
You don't think she has the willingness to go thru with changing herself? I'm asking b/c I don't know how people act, in general.

It doesn't matter what we think about whether she will change or not. Go see for yourself. File for divorce on Monday, then go and give her your conditions.

SEE for yourself if she will change. It is a waste of time to guess and speculate about it. Just go see if she will make radical changes.

Keep in mind that HOPE is not a plan. Hope and wishful thinking will get you nowhere. Only real, demonstrable changes will suffice.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
[
I guess deep down I want to help her do the right thing.
That she is a lost soul that needs help.

NO. She does not need help. *YOU* are the only one who needs help. She is perfectly happy with her serial cheating and does not need or desire your help.

She might desire your MONEY, though.
Her last message to me is this:

"Jeff, I have read your email a few times. Honestly, I'm not ready to decide on anything right now. Even with (the other guy) out of the picture, I just don't know what I will eventually decide. I need time to think everything over. I have been on an emotional rollercoaster...I don't feel i can make the right decision until the rollercoaster comes to a stop...then I can think and feel clearly. i hope you find this fair of me to ask. I do still love you...I will always love you, no matter the end result."
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Her last message to me is this:

"Jeff, I have read your email a few times. Honestly, I'm not ready to decide on anything right now. Even with (the other guy) out of the picture, I just don't know what I will eventually decide. I need time to think everything over. I have been on an emotional rollercoaster...I don't feel i can make the right decision until the rollercoaster comes to a stop...then I can think and feel clearly. i hope you find this fair of me to ask. I do still love you...I will always love you, no matter the end result."

THERE is your answer, my friend.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
One of the reasons that exposure won't help in your situation is because the power of exposure lies in its ability to pierce the fog. Your wife is not in a fog. This is NORMAL for her, so the weapon of exposure will avail you nothing, IMO.

If you agree with me on these 2 points:

1. that your marriage is hopeless unless she makes radical personal changes

and

2. that YOU cannot change her

....then you should be willing to take it to the next step. File for divorce NOW and then go to her and say I will give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness and demonstrate radical changes while the divorce is being processed. If you can demonstrate radical changes in that time, I will consider dropping the divorce. If not, we will be divorced.

If you make that offer, you win either way. If she changes - which I assure you she won't - you will have a great marriage. If not, then you will be divorced. You can't lose if you follow that plan.

You need to file for divorce NOW and get legal protection because she views you as a personal ATM to plunder and rape. This way you will be protected no matter what.

In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. Otherwise you want to get divorced. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc - complete access to her cell phone, bank account, email account

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

7. get rid of her computer and agree to never go on a computer unless you are there

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage with a serial cheater.

And it is not enough that she AGREES to those changes. Only actions will suffice. Make sure she understands that because any half witted liar can agree to anything just keep her sugar poppa daddy. Make it clear you will give her NO money and no support until and unless you see radical, demonstrable, convincing changes over a period of time.


This is an excellent list. I will print this out.
I will send this to her.

I think her past reply to me (see above) is just 'fog' talk.
[/quote] THERE is your answer, my friend.[/quote]

What is she trying to say..right now I'm so numb..I can't read btwn the lines....
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
[
I guess deep down I want to help her do the right thing.
That she is a lost soul that needs help.

NO. She does not need help. *YOU* are the only one who needs help. She is perfectly happy with her serial cheating and does not need or desire your help.

She might desire your MONEY, though.
Yep, Jeff, you are nothing more to her than a gravy train for financing her sordid way of life. I'm trying to be kinder and gentler, but since Mel broached the subject first, I'll definitely jump on board with this. That's the first thing that popped into my head when you mentioned that you had made the mortgage payment so she could stay there, or something like that.

Getting back to that, you need to get your butt back in that house, and kick her [censored] out. Why did YOU leave? What have you done wrong? Why are you letting her feel no consequences for her actions? Go home, and tell her if this is the lifestyle she wishes to engage in then she can take her [censored] elsewhere. Don't allow this crap to happen under your roof, and then abandon your roof. Make HER leave.

Seriously, right now, tonight. This is [censored].
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Her last message to me is this:

"Jeff, I have read your email a few times. Honestly, I'm not ready to decide on anything right now. Even with (the other guy) out of the picture, I just don't know what I will eventually decide. I need time to think everything over. I have been on an emotional rollercoaster...I don't feel i can make the right decision until the rollercoaster comes to a stop...then I can think and feel clearly. i hope you find this fair of me to ask. I do still love you...I will always love you, no matter the end result."

"Thank you for helping me make a decision. I will move forward on this basis."
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
[

I think her past reply to me (see above) is just 'fog' talk.

She is not in a fog, though. She has just told you to buzz off because she is not interested in the marriage. She has moved onto a new stud.

Getting back to that, you need to get your butt back in that house, and kick her [censored] out. Why did YOU leave? What have you done wrong? Why are you letting her feel no consequences for her actions? Go home, and tell her if this is the lifestyle she wishes to engage in then she can take her [censored] elsewhere. Don't allow this crap to happen under your roof, and then abandon your roof. Make HER leave.

Seriously, right now, tonight. This is [censored].[/quote]

I just wanted to get away from it all...run away.
I knew I could be with my family, stay with them, get their support & I could have people to talk to. Me staying at home would be lonely. I know that I haven't done anything wrong. I think I wanted to take the high road & be the better person.

I have to admit, when I first confronted her..I told her to get her '[censored]' out by Friday. lol I'm not one to get angry at people I know, so it felt weird to say that to her.

But I think letting her stay there..it makes her feel even worse. I know she feels that I am a good guy & that most people would have kicked her out. She has told me that I am a great guy that does not deserve her.
I would get her to move on out so you can protect your legal interests. If you can do that, you might avoid having to pay her mortgage while she brings men home to sleep with. I seriously doubt you want to finance that, do you? Do you want to finance her affair lair?
I don't think she knows any local men. It makes sense that she wouldn't. I think she is really afraid of people knowing what she is up to, so she looked online for people. People that are far away, or at least far from where we live but still drivable.

There are still people that I have not exposed too...several friends, etc. I can get into her facebook account.
Should I even think about exposing to them?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Her last message to me is this:

"Jeff, I have read your email a few times.

I have been examing the best way to BS you, and I came up with the following:

Honestly, I'm not ready to decide on anything right now. Even with (the other guy) out of the picture, I just don't know what I will eventually decide.

I'm not a committed person. I am always going to take the easiest option. Even with this guy out of the picture, there will always be ANOTHER guy

I need time to think everything over.

I need for you to hope and hope so there is time for me to take and take. I completely don't respect the fact that I made my decision ON MY WEDDING DAY


I have been on an emotional rollercoaster...I don't feel i can make the right decision until the rollercoaster comes to a stop...

I am not a stable person. Do not expect much from me.

then I can think and feel clearly. i hope you find this fair of me to ask.

I hope you will let me keep using you. I hope you stay in Plan Hope. I am willing to dump you for whoever comes along but it would be much better for ME if you let me decide when to do that. Oh and keep the money coming, hon.


I do still love you...I will always love you, no matter the end result."

I hope my saying this will keep you in Plan Hope.

When I leave you, I will always view this venture as having been quite profitable for me.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I don't think she knows any local men. It makes sense that she wouldn't.

Do you live in a town that has any planes, boats, cars or trains? Because if you do, anyone she meets on the internet can be there in no time. For example, I live in a city that has planes and yesterday I flew, rather cheaply, from Chicago, Illinois to my town.

People meet on the internet and hook up all the time. It is no great feat if they live in a country that has transportation.

So it doesn't matter if she knows local men or not. A long distance man can be local inside of 2 hours.

Quote
There are still people that I have not exposed too...several friends, etc. I can get into her facebook account.
Should I even think about exposing to them?

Sounds great!
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
There are still people that I have not exposed too...several friends, etc. I can get into her facebook account.
Should I even think about exposing to them?
Damned right you should, and right now is as good a time as any. It should've been done all at once to give a tsunami effect, but who's to say two tsunamis can't occur.

Get on it, then get back in that house.

It's man up time, pal!
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Getting back to that, you need to get your butt back in that house, and kick her [censored] out. Why did YOU leave? What have you done wrong? Why are you letting her feel no consequences for her actions? Go home, and tell her if this is the lifestyle she wishes to engage in then she can take her [censored] elsewhere. Don't allow this crap to happen under your roof, and then abandon your roof. Make HER leave.

Seriously, right now, tonight. This is [censored].


I just wanted to get away from it all...run away.
I knew I could be with my family, stay with them, get their support & I could have people to talk to. Me staying at home would be lonely. I know that I haven't done anything wrong. I think I wanted to take the high road & be the better person.

I have to admit, when I first confronted her..I told her to get her '[censored]' out by Friday. lol I'm not one to get angry at people I know, so it felt weird to say that to her.

But I think letting her stay there..it makes her feel even worse. I know she feels that I am a good guy & that most people would have kicked her out. She has told me that I am a great guy that does not deserve her.[/quote]
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I would get her to move on out so you can protect your legal interests. If you can do that, you might avoid having to pay her mortgage while she brings men home to sleep with. I seriously doubt you want to finance that, do you? Do you want to finance her affair lair?


Seriously, just get her lying behind out of your house.

Even if she IS too skanky to attract local men who know about her, why should she enjoy the comforts of YOUR home while sending dirty pictures to strangers online while in YOUR home?

I appreciate you want the support of your family but having a wayward in your house is a disaster.

Bring some family home to stay with you for a while. See her off.
p.s. I have lived in towns that did not have planes and it was very easy to drive my car to a town that DID have planes and get on the plane.

So unless you live deep in the Amazon rainforest of Brazil and wear a grass skirt to the jungle every day, she can probably manage to hook up with her OM.

Are you a member of an Indian Tribe in the Amazon Rainforest?

[Linked Image from mongabay.net]
Originally Posted by indiegirl
[
Bring some family home to stay with you for a while. See her off.

hurray This is a GREAT IDEA!! Bring home some female relatives like your mother, sister and some aunts. That will get her out for sure! grin
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
But I think letting her stay there..it makes her feel even worse. I know she feels that I am a good guy & that most people would have kicked her out. She has told me that I am a great guy that does not deserve her.


Don't credit a wayward this hardened with finer feelings.

She simply told you that she appreciates your being soft on her because she enjoys taking advantage.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by indiegirl
[
Bring some family home to stay with you for a while. See her off.

hurray This is a GREAT IDEA!! Bring home some female relatives like your mother, sister and some aunts. That will get her out for sure! grin
I like this as well. She will be MUCH less likely to give you any flack about her leaving if she has someone else besides you to face during this.

Tough. You reap what you sow.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I think her past reply to me (see above) is just 'fog' talk.


Her language isn't foggy though. She knows exactly what she wants. Whatever she can get.

I'd do the following:

1) Move all money from joint accounts somewhere she can't access to protect savings etc
2) Print off your list of conditions and a copy of the NC letter she needs to write for OM
3) Round up a posse of female relatives and get a VAR to record your confrontation of WW to protect all of you from false allegations
4) Give her your demands and tell her if she can't be a married woman she needs to get out. You'll help her pack. Or send her things on.
5)Change the locks and install deadbolts.
6) Go see a lawyer and file for a D.
7) Get an IM and implement Plan B to prevent any more manipulation from her.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
There are still people that I have not exposed too...several friends, etc. I can get into her facebook account.
Should I even think about exposing to them?

Yes as a fairly recently busted WW the most offensive and painful thing to me was being exposed. I was indignant. I yelled and screamed and told him it was abuse. And then alone in my bed at my parents house I realized that not only was it his right to do so, it had to happen. I would still have lied and lied to save face to OM because my head was all the way up my toucas. That door would have remained cracked open forever to soothe my hurt feelings the next time things got tough and I wanted something easy.

I was feeling sorry for myself at first like she is now. But I have bootstraps and am using them. She is a big girl and needs to fully own what she did.
Part of me wants to believe that she is remorseful...

She has told me that she is very sorry for hurting me..that she cried all Sunday night about how she has hurt me...

The part I can't seem to understand is that she doesn't feel that the relationship with the other guy has anything to do with us.

Her mom even emailed (after I sent her all the proof) that she didnt feel that we were meant for each other & that the other guy has nothing to do with us.

I just can't figure out how this other guy doesn't play a role.
I understand that he as a person may not, but her actions of getting involved with him are surely intangled with what is going on in our marriage.


---
There are several friends of hers that have no idea of what has happened. Should I give them proof of what I have found..transcripts.....she told me that I shouldnt have sent the transcripts....that i should have just told her friends that she was a "lying cheater".
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Part of me wants to believe that she is remorseful...


That part of you will get some sense in Plan B.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
She has told me that she is very sorry for hurting me..that she cried all Sunday night about how she has hurt me...
.


If she's really remorseful she will do what it takes when she gets your conditions.

If they were just crocodile tears, then she won't do zip.
Just not remorseful enough to stop though. I would say you are getting distracted with nonsense again.

LEt's get back to the issue at hand. Unless she agrees to make radical and demonstrable changes, this is hopeless.

Has she agreed to make radical changes?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Part of me wants to believe that she is remorseful...

She has told me that she is very sorry for hurting me..that she cried all Sunday night about how she has hurt me...

The part I can't seem to understand is that she doesn't feel that the relationship with the other guy has anything to do with us.

Her mom even emailed (after I sent her all the proof) that she didnt feel that we were meant for each other & that the other guy has nothing to do with us.

I just can't figure out how this other guy doesn't play a role.
I understand that he as a person may not, but her actions of getting involved with him are surely intangled with what is going on in our marriage.
Jeff, you aren't listening. None of this has to do with you, or the other guy, or the other guy, or the other guy, or the other guy, etc., etc., etc.

It has to do with her. This is the way she has led her life for 37 years, and it's highly unlikely it will ever change. The sooner you embrace this for what it is, the better off you will be. You married a broken woman. That's where you are. Harsh? Yep. But that's where you are. Sorry pal.

I tell it like I see it. Hope you can handle it. I do feel terrible for you though.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Just not remorseful enough to stop though. I would say you are getting distracted with nonsense again.

LEt's get back to the issue at hand. Unless she agrees to make radical and demonstrable changes, this is hopeless.

Has she agreed to make radical changes?


No not yet, I've only received the text in one of my previous posts. She is responding to my letter that I sent to her.

Should I write a letter that lists what changes have to be made?
Then she can see if she will agree to it?

Originally Posted by TigerWes
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Part of me wants to believe that she is remorseful...

She has told me that she is very sorry for hurting me..that she cried all Sunday night about how she has hurt me...

The part I can't seem to understand is that she doesn't feel that the relationship with the other guy has anything to do with us.

Her mom even emailed (after I sent her all the proof) that she didnt feel that we were meant for each other & that the other guy has nothing to do with us.

I just can't figure out how this other guy doesn't play a role.
I understand that he as a person may not, but her actions of getting involved with him are surely intangled with what is going on in our marriage.
Jeff, you aren't listening. None of this has to do with you, or the other guy, or the other guy, or the other guy, or the other guy, etc., etc., etc.

It has to do with her. This is the way she has led her life for 37 years, and it's highly unlikely it will ever change. The sooner you embrace this for what it is, the better off you will be. You married a broken woman. That's where you are. Harsh? Yep. But that's where you are. Sorry pal.

I tell it like I see it. Hope you can handle it. I do feel terrible for you though.


I hear you. It is all about her. She is a narcissist.
I hate to even call her that...but it seems so true.

She did tell my mom that babies seem to like her..that they like pretty women.

I remember one of her criticisms of me, was that she wanted a relationship like her parents had....that her dad would do anything for her mom. He just did things for her mom & didnt have to be told to do them.
She has already told you tonight she does not want to get back together with you. Do you think sending her conditions will change that?

Why not send her your conditions tonight and lets just see if she will start making radical changes. I would also tell her that you will be filing for divorce regardless. Otherwise, I doubt she will take you seriously. I know I wouldn't.

She needs to know that the ATM is closed. If she works on making radical changes even though she knows you will file for divorce, that might be promising.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
[
I remember one of her criticisms of me, was that she wanted a relationship like her parents had....that her dad would do anything for her mom. He just did things for her mom & didnt have to be told to do them.

Right, she wants you for a pool boy but not a husband. Do you want to be her boy?
No I don't want to be her boy......

Hearing all your comments have put a reality spin on this for me...
being with her, I was starting to believe that something was wrong with me since I had a hard time being the person she wanted me to be for her.

It feels so weird that she could just think of casting me aside....b/c I wasn't passionate or loving or whatever....when I have been there for her so many times.

She has had 3 laparoscopic surgeries (lap band, surgery for endometriosis, & surgery to repair lap band after endo surgery).
I was there to support her thru all of that. I mean she had the last 2 surgeries, about last October or so. So it hasn't been years since I supported her thru a difficult thing.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Originally Posted by TigerWes
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Part of me wants to believe that she is remorseful...

She has told me that she is very sorry for hurting me..that she cried all Sunday night about how she has hurt me...

The part I can't seem to understand is that she doesn't feel that the relationship with the other guy has anything to do with us.

Her mom even emailed (after I sent her all the proof) that she didnt feel that we were meant for each other & that the other guy has nothing to do with us.

I just can't figure out how this other guy doesn't play a role.
I understand that he as a person may not, but her actions of getting involved with him are surely intangled with what is going on in our marriage.
Jeff, you aren't listening. None of this has to do with you, or the other guy, or the other guy, or the other guy, or the other guy, etc., etc., etc.

It has to do with her. This is the way she has led her life for 37 years, and it's highly unlikely it will ever change. The sooner you embrace this for what it is, the better off you will be. You married a broken woman. That's where you are. Harsh? Yep. But that's where you are. Sorry pal.

I tell it like I see it. Hope you can handle it. I do feel terrible for you though.


I hear you. It is all about her. She is a narcissist.
I hate to even call her that...but it seems so true.

She did tell my mom that babies seem to like her..that they like pretty women.

I remember one of her criticisms of me, was that she wanted a relationship like her parents had....that her dad would do anything for her mom. He just did things for her mom & didnt have to be told to do them.
Jeff, this is something so similar to what my last one told me. And it's very telling if you really stop and think about it. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

If I were you, and you are so inclined to, I would just finish whatever exposure you want to do right now (and I mean right now), get back in the house with a relative like indie suggested, and move on. File first thing on Monday, and have her served as quickly as possible. If you really have some reason to try and save this, you need to throw an avalanche at her, and let her suffer the consequences of her actions. Lord only knows why you would want to try and save this, but you need to get mad dogged mad and be extremely aggressive here. If there is any indication that she is willing to do the right thing, then she wouldn't have a problem with this.

I'm putting major money on her having a problem with this.
Quote
I don't feel i can make the right decision until the rollercoaster comes to a stop..
Plan B will make that rollercoaster come to a crashing stop. For you atleast.
I will expose some more.....should I share the transcripts with the people that I expose to?

I don't want to hurt her....she says that people knowing the details is cruel.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I will expose some more.....should I share the transcripts with the people that I expose to?

I don't want to hurt her....she says that people knowing the details is cruel.

Sure, I would expose and send the transcripts. Otherwise, she will just tell people you made it up.
Ok, I will expose some more. I think I will be very selective on who I tell though.

I know, I know...why am I even trying to save this.

1) She is a cheater (no doubt about that)

2) She can not have our children (her endometriosis will come back & her doctor said that she will need a hysterectomy eventually)

3) She has narcissistic personality

4) She is unrealistic expectations for what a husband should be for her.

5) She has problems with anger control, esp after drinking. She has talked to me like I am a dog. Every time we go out, I have gotten myself prepared to see some sort of melt down from her.

6) She drinks to much. This is my opinion. She likes wine a lot & has a glass full 3-5 times a week.

7) She has a health problem. Since I have known her she has taken high blood pressure medicine. She is about 60-70 lbs overweight. We have struggled with this issue for quite a bit. She has had a lap band for 4 years now. She goes to the gym currently. I'd like fer her to be thinner & healthier...not only for herself, for helping her have children & for me. Again this is just my opinion.

When I look at all these...there isnt much there.
I'm not trying to demonize her.
But I still want to save her & be there for her....

Jeff, you know there is nothing here to save. But don't take my word for it. Send her the letter with your conditions and see if she will make a radical change. I would love be proven wrong.

Do you agree you need to file for divorce on Monday, regardless?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Jeff, you know there is nothing here to save. But don't take my word for it. Send her the letter with your conditions and see if she will make a radical change. I would love be proven wrong.

Do you agree you need to file for divorce on Monday, regardless?


No I am not going to file Monday. My family is supporting me with this. My feelings are that I will wait till the end of this month.

I know, I know.

This past Thursday, she friended the guy on Facebook.
Then she tells me today that he is out of the picture.
Part of my letter to her had a No-Contact letter within it.

as far as I know, she isn't talking with her mom, which I think could really help her. I haven't contacted her mom since Sunday, so I have no idea.

I hate all this. A month ago she & I were at a dinner party for a couple that got married (she works with the bride).
My wife has photos uploaded of that event...not of me with her, but of her with some of her friends...the typically close head shot type.

I just can't believe she was contacting this guy back then. I can see though, how she became more distant from then until now.

Jeff, I would just file so she knows you're serious and not playing in the sandpit with her anymore.

But MOST importantly to protect you.

If your wife IS sorry and 'will always love you' as she claims, she will get the D process stopped.

I'm wondering if I suggest that we at least see a counselor together...

I wonder why when I first confronted her, she started to explain that we do not mesh together & that we were not meant to be together.
Her mom told me the same thing. I assume she explained to her mom this & her mom accepted it as an explanation.

I guess this is the 'fog' talking?
Ah she doesn't 'mesh well' with her husband. Funny that she chose you then. Its not even a real complaint that you can take action on.

Waywards hate giving real complaints with accurate instuctions. Things you can actually change. They like to torment you with stuff you can't do anything about:

I just need space
I just need to find myself
Its like I love you but I'm not in love with you
I'm just not happy
We just don't seem close
We have grown apart
I was always miserable

(All of these are lies designed to keep you under their control)

All of these lies are vague, irrelevant and a perfect way to keep you in Plan Hope where the wayward can use and abuse you.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
If you agree with me on these 2 points:

1. that your marriage is hopeless unless she makes radical personal changes

and

2. that YOU cannot change her


And neither can a marriage counsellor. A marriage counsellor can't change her. I don't know any that have magic wands and most marriage counsellors are basically incompetent even with honest and honourable people.

Your conditons include MB counselling anyway.

File for a D and leave the personal changes she must make before its final up to her.
We have had issues before. She has had melt downs about us & her unhappiness.

One of the complaints or issues is the fact that she doesn't think I care about her or put her first in my life.

The other complaint is that she feels that I don't show her enough passion.

She would give examples....not removing the celluphane wrapper off of the flowers that I give her, not asking her about the toppings she wants on her pizza...etc
She would get teary eyed when she explain these.

My Baggage:
I do have to admit that I felt less passion for her due to some attractiveness needs that I wanted from her. She is a pretty woman but has a weight issue since I have known her. I never expected her to have a supermodel frame, just get down to a healthy weight. I know this is a sensitive subject for people, so i feel bad even discussing it.
I felt that we tried to address the issue. We both got a personal trainer then quit after about 6 months, we worked out together in our home, for the past 8 months or so she has gone to the same personal trainer we had initially, she has since changed over to a local gym....and she even got a lap band 4 years ago. I thought that we tried everything we could do so she could beat this. I felt confident that she could beat this issue & that I would get my need met. She has lost some since then, I can't really tell. Before I met her, she admitted that she would purge after eating, so it has been an issue her whole life. When I met her, she was going to her local gym & really had the attitude of getting herself healthy.

I remember one time that I brought up this issue...and she told me it was my fault she was this way. That she deals with issues by over eating & doesnt feel like pursing it. It was my fault since I can't give what she needs from me.
Anyway, this has been eating me up inside. I didnt want this issue between us to be a catalyst for her to do the things she has been doing. I've never yelled at her, never called her names,...I always thought I have been supportive as anyone could be.


Jeff, what's your plan?

Pool boy or man up?
I will plan to file.

I am a man....not someones pool boy.


I feel guilty if I ever pushed her to do all what she has done...
I don't want my issues of her weight or attractiveness to be a reason why she decided to do this...

But on the other hand, she admitted that she would have never told me what she had been doing.
In one of her texts, she told me that she was simply leaving me, she wasn't leaving me for another man.


I've seen her facebook acct...she has pictures of friends, outings, etc. Even pics of her at a party that I took of her.
This was all happening like a normal life even though she was involved in her online escapade all along.

Its hard for me to understand how someone can separate that in their life. If I was cheating on her, I just don't think I could go out & fun with my friends, go to dinners with her, etc.

Its hurtful to know that she had a dual life like this.
And that she was prepared to separate without me ever knowing.

She feels that her online thing has nothing to do with the problems she & I have...knowing she feels this way...bothers me.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
She feels that her online thing has nothing to do with the problems she & I have...knowing she feels this way...bothers me.

That is what she wants you to BELIEVE so you won't blame her. If you look at the other threads all the other WS's say the same thing. She is conning you.
Jeff, we've ALL heard that nonsense 'its all YOUR fault' I'm a lying cheating scumbag!
ITS NOT YOUR FAULT

If you read the following thread you'll see that waywards make an ART F0RM out of convincing you it is.


Never Take the Word of a Wayward
She just texted me saying that I lied to her when I said I was thru exposing.

I had let her brother know at the beginning of all this (last Sunday).
I guess he has just gotten around to contacting her now.

She feels it is inexcusable for me to involve him.

She thinks that I am driving her away from all those that can help her. That she is going to have to run away from all those that love her.

She also mentioned that this website & the books aren't helpful for everyone or can't be applied to everyone's situation.


Jeff, please stop posting her spin, it helps no one. Stick to your plan and pay no mind to her spin. Do something productive like take out the trash.
"I am sorry your adultery is upsetting you"
Switch off your phone, get a nap/ sleep/you time then make arrangements to go see a lawyer.
This is all so upsetting to hear her this way...

But I have been warned at least, that she could respond this way...


I told her that if she ended it with the other guy, the exposure would stop. I guess she thought she could friend him on facebook and that wouldn't count.

I wonder if I should send her a letter telling her that I did not lie about exposing. That I emailed her brother initially when all this came to light...that I didnt contact him after I told her I would stop exposing.

I thought I could tell her in the letter that I am done. That i know she has lied about the guy not being in the picture, since she friended him on facebook.




Here is what I was planning to write to her:

I initially wrote to your mom & brother on sunday...just basically asking for help.

They both replied back wanting to know what the problem was.

I did tell them all what I knew. Todd wrote me back Wednesday saying that if I wanted to call him, that I could. He gave me his personal email & cell phone number.

That was it. I have not exposed anything more. I have not lied at all.

You have though. I know that you have friended this guy on Facebook on Thursday night.

You told me it was over with him & that he was out of the picture.

I am done with this. I have tried to help you as best as I can.

This is an addiction that I wanted to help you with.

If someone was taking cocaine or heroin, it would be hoped that people would come to help them...at least I hope they would.

The exposure is over, you can be safe with that. You won't have to feel anything else about this.
You need to stop justifying yourself. You are behaving as if you have done something wrong. You should NEVER EVER promise to not expose her affair. Only a wayward would demand such a promise.

I would not send her that because this letter just makes the situation worse. You give power to her premise that there is something wrong with exposure.
Send something back like:

"so sorry you are upset, but I feel that others should know why our marriage has collapsed. I have no reason to cover up your affair. All the best, Jeff"
Don't justify yourself!

There's nothing wrong with telling the truth!
It feels that I am pushing her away...she says this in her text.
She says that she will have no one to turn to.


I am so glad that I am aware of what cheating people will say. I have read that they tend to say these things.

I wonder if I should tell her that everyone knows she friended the other guy on facebook this past Thursday.
From what I can tell, he is still on her friends list.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
It feels that I am pushing her away...she says this in her text.
She says that she will have no one to turn to.

She has run away on her own because she has "turned to" some loser on the internet. You haven't pushed her away.
I'm so very glad that I have read this website before.

Are there any links to pages within this site or forum that talks about what wayward spouses will say?

I know I have bookmarked these:
How to Plan B Correctly
Exposure 101

Any more besides these that might help ease my mind & know what I am preparing for. These sort of 'instruction' pages are great for me to understand all this.
Don't continue to promise her you are done exposing.
She has no vote in that.

You can speak the truth (exposure) if you must.....and......you did and do get to expose it.

I love indiegirl's statement to say back to her....

"I am sorry your adultery is upsetting you"
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
...It feels that I am pushing her away...she says this in her text.
She says that she will have no one to turn to. ...
LMAO, Jeff.

You could ask her, "But honey, if these new relationships with these guys that you're picking up on the internet are so great & wholesome & right, why wouldn't you be proud to have everyone know? I'm just sharing your good news!"
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
...I told her that if she ended it with the other guy, the exposure would stop. ...
Stopping the exposure would be the worst move you could make, Jeff.

That'd be like a football team that drives the ball all the way down to the opponent's 20-yard-line, but then hands the ball to the other team.

She is reacting like a crack-addict when someone threatens to take away her crack-pipe. Affairs are addictions. You have to make the 'drug' cost more than it's worth to her. Is she going to like going off the 'drug'? Of course not! No crack addict likes quitting. But if she never quits then she can't even start withdrawal, and she'll stay hooked & stay in the affair-lifestyle.

Exposure is your best shot for busting up an affair. It busted up mine. Holding off on exposure is enabling. The only promise you should make her is that you won't enable her to cheat on you.
Stay with the drug-junkie construct, my friend.

Does the junkie resent the person attempting to wrestle the needle from her?
Does the junkie blame every/anybody else for her situation?
Does the junkie stop feeding her sick addiction without having the alternative be something worse?

Rejoice in the fact that she is at least grounded enough to give a damn that her family is learning how low she has fallen. BUT...in all likelihood, it will not be enough, and you should invest no more emotional capital in imagining you and she have a future together.
Slight t/j: Nice to read from NG! end t/j.

Jeff, you are in GREAT hands here. I will repeat what bears repeating: addicts do NOT like the crackpipe removed. Tantrums, screaming, silent treatment, etc., etc. All normal and expected. Most of us that have been here either reading or posting can literally write the wayward responses.

Stay the course, my friend. And, stay here.
Quote
She just texted me saying that I lied to her when I said I was thru exposing.
dramaqueen She'll have to get over that. You're doing what you need to do.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
She just texted me saying that I lied to her when I said I was thru exposing.
dramaqueen She'll have to get over that. You're doing what you need to do.
Tell her you'll do whatever it takes to protect your marriage.
In all that has happened since last Sunday, I moved my stuff out, etc. She has yet to ask where I am staying at..

I've been staying at an extended stay hotel during the week.
This past weekend, I drove home and stayed with my folks.
Why why why did YOU leave, Jeff?
Why are you not back in your house tonight?
Yes, WHY?????? GET YOURSELF BACK HOME. And, back in YOUR bed. She doesn't want to sleep in that bed with you? Let her snuggle up in the garage, guest room, couch or basement. Do NOT LEAVE your space. This is critcal. Man up here.
Please read.

Men, do not leave your home
Yes, I will move back in asap.

I told her she could stay since she doesn't have anyone to stay with here in town. I have relatives here for support, her family lives in Gainesville, about 2 hours away,

I just want to be a good guy.
Should I even consider living in the house with her. We have a spare bedroom for her to sleep in. She has been sleeping in the spare room anyway for the past 5 months or so. She did this initially b/c I snore.
Letting her skate without suffering consequences for her adulterous actions is NOT being a good guy, it's being an enabler. You're better than this and I hope you're finally starting to realize it.

Get back in that house tonight if possible (tomorrow at the LATEST), and don't give one rip roaring crap what she thinks about it. It's not your problem.

It's hers.
Should she be allowed to stay in a spare bedroom?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Should I even consider living in the house with her. We have a spare bedroom for her to sleep in. She has been sleeping in the spare room anyway for the past 5 months or so. She did this initially b/c I snore.
GO HOME. Put your jammies on and get into your own bed. My husband snores, too. (He says I do but I've never heard it smile ) Put a Breathe Strip on the bridge of your nose. End of snoring.

Bottom line: GO HOME.
Not if she continues to display this type of disrespectful behavior under your roof! Oh no Hell no!

If she wants to cat around like a [censored] in heat, then she can do it elsewhere, but NOT under your roof.

Like we have been telling you, this is her character flaw, not yours. Your character and morals are in tact. Why would you want to continue to aid her in enabling this kind of bullcrap under the roof you provide?

Makes no sense to me.

If she has a problem with this, then tough. Stop abetting and financing your broken heart. Think about it. Why should you do this?
I left my house b/c I needed space... I just couldn't stand to be around her at the time. Now a week later, I think I would be ok with her in the house.

I moved all my stuff out b/c I thought that this is it...she has gone way too far and this is over. After I read about her telling this uy that she loved him, the cybersex, and them making plans to meet...I had to get me anD my stuff out. She even told the guy that my previous M ended b/c of cheating.

My family doesn't mind me moving back home, but they want her to move out.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Should she be allowed to stay in a spare bedroom?

In someone else's house, not yours.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I just want to be a good guy.

Being an enabler is not a "good guy."
X2, Jeff. Claim YOUR house. Claim your home. Do not enable this behavior. And, do not be a doormat for it either. Do NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME. WW wants to leave? Let her. YOU do not leave. Got that?
Being a good guy...hand 20.00 to a crack addict. Feel good?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I left my house b/c I needed space... I just couldn't stand to be around her at the time. Now a week later, I think I would be ok with her in the house.

I moved all my stuff out b/c I thought that this is it...she has gone way too far and this is over. After I read about her telling this uy that she loved him, the cybersex, and them making plans to meet...I had to get me anD my stuff out. She even told the guy that my previous M ended b/c of cheating.

My family doesn't mind me moving back home, but they want her to move out.
GO HOME. It's in your best interest to be there. If the HellCat doesn't like it, SHE can get out.
Got it, Jeff?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I left my house b/c I needed space... I just couldn't stand to be around her at the time. Now a week later, I think I would be ok with her in the house.

I moved all my stuff out b/c I thought that this is it...she has gone way too far and this is over. After I read about her telling this uy that she loved him, the cybersex, and them making plans to meet...I had to get me anD my stuff out. She even told the guy that my previous M ended b/c of cheating.

My family doesn't mind me moving back home, but they want her to move out.


You "think you would be okay with her in the house". Well, are there any conditions or are you just willin to roll over and accept an "open marriage"?

The MB plan A Would be a carrot and stick approach to your marriage and her affair.
You say on page 1 you read on page 1 you read dr harleys books. Did you read Surviving an Affair?

Personally, I think you should just divorce her some you don't have kids.
And I say this as I finish a 10 year marriage in divorce. I know how difficult it can be.
But please understand: this lady does NOT LOVE YOU.
If she did she would not hurt you this much. She is selfish. Some people are.
The question for you is how much of your life do you want to invest with her?
How much time?
Pretty consistent advice, huh, Jeff?

Now it's up to you. You do or you don't.

Your choice.
you are trying to pacify her. why would you want to do that? the point of exposure is ... well, exposure! she's feeling the flames of the consequences of her own behaviour. that's the point.

do not send this letter. i'll let the vets take over and say why & what to do.
Ok I will not send the letter. I will send one soon though that says that I am done accepting this from her.

That if she cared about me she would have asked where I have been staying at all this time.

I'm wondering if I should tell people she works with, or would that be seen as revenge?
Part of me doesn't want her to get away with saying that "well, we couldn't seem to work it out...we found out we were not meant for each other..". That can of BS bothers me.



Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Ok I will not send the letter. I will send one soon though that says that I am done accepting this from her.


Actions mean more than words in these situations Jeff. Just as whatever she says, you should not listen - equally she wont listen to you.

Instead of threatening to take action in a letter, simply do it.

Send her your MB conditions by all means, but back it up with actions such as filing for a D and moving back home. Take support with you to get her out of the house unless she commits with actions.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I'm wondering if I should tell people she works with, or would that be seen as revenge?
Part of me doesn't want her to get away with saying that "well, we couldn't seem to work it out...we found out we were not meant for each other..". That can of BS bothers me.


Usually only recommended for a workplace affair or if they are using a lot of company time and resources to chase their affair.
What would be the MB conditions?

Should I at least expose to some more of her friends?
I know how to contact them using their facebook email address.
I haven't looked at all of the transcript...I sometimes wonder if I am in a nightmare.

http://pastebin.com/w5U0YL40

Its in a reverse order timeline...I've removed the names.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I told her she could stay since she doesn't have anyone to stay with here in town. I have relatives here for support, her family lives in Gainesville, about 2 hours away,

1. Who effing cares where she goes. Not your problem, bud. Go home and tell her to leave.

2. Remove her from any joint credit cards where you are the primary card holder. When she leaves, expect her to blow through whatever cash and credit you guys have. Beat her to it and don't waste time feeling guilty over it because she'd do it to you.

3. File for a divorce.

4. Don't even think of having sex with this woman should she come crying back. There's a host of STDs out there, and (even with the IVF issue) you don't want to risk bringing a kid into this trainwreck. She's not mother-material, in other words.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
What would be the MB conditions?

Should I at least expose to some more of her friends?
I know how to contact them using their facebook email address.

Jeff, expose to people who has the biggest influence over your WW. To those whose opinion and argument matter to your WW.

Dr Harley, the founder of this site, says about exposure:

Quote
There are many reasons for this recommendation, but the primary reason is based on my belief that the more people know about what I do in my most private moments, the safer I am to others. Infidelity is one of the most painful experiences one spouse can inflict on the other, and it�s far less likely to take place, or continue to take place, when everyone knows about it.
Read more Here

By exposing to the right people you most likely are going to kill her affair(s).

Your conditions - MB conditions to even consider the recovery - are uttered here more that once: NC with these POSOMs, complete change of behaviour around opposite sex and willingness to work towards reconsiliation. Please re-read MelodyLane's and others' suggestions again. There is no marriage left to be saved. But you can save your future. With her or without her. It is a powerful message that you send - you won't let her to tramp over you. Plus you can save her.

My H hesitated to expose and once he did I felt ... saved. I was so weak to stop it myself. I was so full of myself that I didn't even know myself, I was tired of myself and the situation. WS's are not good in common sense and constructiveness, they only know how to destroy. They are floaters most of the time. Look at it that way - she needs someone to help her, by exposing her deeds you can help her. Reality hits home after exposure.
I don't know if I should expose to her friends. All of them work with her as well. I've got most of the contact info for them all....its all their facebook email addresses.

Anyway, I am contacting a lawyer tomorrow.

My concern is our house. If I live there, I will need some sort of monatary support from her. B/c if she gets an appt or lives with friends, she gets out of having to pay for the mortgage. Is there any way of doing this?
Jeff, yes, of course you should expose to her friends, and you should have done it with the first wave. Exposure is supposed to hit all at once in one tsunami like effect. That's been explained already and you apparently didn't believe us or just chose to ignore us.

You're not doing yourself any favors by drawing this out like you have been. You draw it any further out than you already have and you run the risk of coming off looking petty and vindictive. You'll only hurt yourself if you don't get on it now. And Jeff, I mean like right now. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but it is what it is. Seriously though, what do you really have to lose at this point? Nothing. Nothing at all.

As far as your question about her obligations about finances goes, no one here is qualified to give that level of advice, so you won't receive any there. The laws vary from state to state, so your appointment with an attorney tomorrow will give you the best answers to that question.
I will expose more to her friends today.

I will also contact her & tell her that I am moving back into my house Saturday morning. That will give her enough time to get her stuff, cats, etc out.

I will also tell her that if she wants to stay there are some conditions:

1) no contact with this guy (or any other guy she met online)
2) individual counseling
3) marriage counseling
4) gps in her car
5) total access to her phone, passwords, etc
6) reconciliation with her family & mine

If she can not do this, she is to move out & be ready to accept D papers.

How does this sound?
Jeff,

IC & MC will encourage her to move out and 'find herself', I guarantee it.

In terms of no contact, I would suggest that not only do you follow the No Contact letter guidelines here, but that she removes all internet access. She obviously cannot be trusted to use the internet, she uses it to prey for men.

IF you wish to attempt reconciliation, I would expect to use MB coaching/contact the Harleys.

I'm positive she will NOT agree to those conditions as you are asking her to change her complete lifestyle that she has always had - so be prepared to go straight into Plan B/D when that backlash comes, DO NOT BACK DOWN or try to let her wiggle your conditions.
When she balks at this and starts blaming all of this on you, call her parents and tell them to come get her. Or, print out mapquest directions for the route to their house and give them to her.
I think I will move in on Saturday & change the locks as well.

Then tell her that she is to come to our house, she is to be accompanied by a friend.

I have tried, tried, tried to get thru to her.

She does not want anyone to know the specifics of what was said btwn her & this other guy.....it is so sad....

If she wanted to leave in the past, she could have given me an ultimatum about changing whatever I needed to do or she was going to leave.

You can tell in her conversations with this guy, she told him that she would never leave me. That me finding out was the only way that she could end it with him.

It hurts me to know that she had a plan for all this to work out in her favor. She was so obnoxiously confident that I wouldn't find out, since she figured she had her phone with her at all the times. Little did she realize that I could find out when I wanted to.
Someone on another forum someone said this:

"Why are you "exposing" her emails to everyone you know since it makes you look creepy as hell?

I'm a BS and I'm also an only child, but have to tell you that you can't always get what you want.

Do you really think her mother and friends can MAKE her come back to you by exposing her sex transcripts? Do you not care why she's there with you if the only reason she would come back is that her friends "made" her come back? Doubt they have that power, Farmer.

She's got issues that only a counselor can help her with. The more you humiliate her, the less reason she has to ever want to set eyes on you again.

You've taken it too far. Telling people the truth is one thing if they ask why you're separating.

Emailing sex transcripts to everyone she knows is childish and vengeful. If I got one of these from a husband, even though as a BS I also sympathize with his BS status, I'd tell the WS to run."


So I am not going to contact any of her friends at all.
I don't want to humiliate her any more than I have with her family. I guess the first time that I exposed, was to explain in my way, why we are separating.

I don't want to come off as being creepy. But I don't think I went too far by exposing to her mom & brother. They needed to know the truth rather than some made up reason that she would tell them.

I will just go see an attorney & call it quits. This has been a nightmare. I hate her & love her....
As for your other response that you posted, just remember that trying to appease a wayward by not making them mad doesn't really change anything. They're already gone, so how can you really run them off?

I think you're spot on with consulting an attorney. It sounds as though you were just another guy in a long history of short-term relationships. I'd move on.
What about the persons response that I took it too far by exposing the first time....that was last week...3 days after I found out. I thought I was doing the right thing.
It hurts me to know that she had a plan for all this to work out in her favor. She was so obnoxiously confident that I wouldn't find out, since she figured she had her phone with her at all the times. Little did she realize that I could find out when I wanted to.

Full nuclear exposure, then, is where her planning would have failed to meet the reality of the consequences she is going to have to deal with.

WWs who are EA-invested with their APs do not easily become unstuck from their attachment. The ones that historically have done so not only hit "rock bottom" in their assessment of their situation, but actually discovered a sub-basement beneath "rock bottom".

Your timid "step-by-step" exposure is seriously working against your interests. You're pulling off her bandage hair-by-agonizing-hair, and (mixing metaphors) is preventing her from slamming into that bottom.

That me finding out was the only way that she could end it with him.

Wow! Way callous and calculating! Prepare yourself my friend, for this expressed attitude on her part to be the major hurdle you will eventually have to overcome for YOUR recovery. (She's already planned her own, with your anticipated docile concurrence.)
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
What about the persons response that I took it too far by exposing the first time....that was last week...3 days after I found out. I thought I was doing the right thing.

You were doing the right thing by exposing.

That person that you mentioned is full of [censored]. Coddling a wayward doesn't work, no more than coddling an alcoholic does.

Forget about that person, tell them to eff off, or both (whichever suits your fancy) but shift gears because rethinking what is now in the past is a distraction.

I agree with NG on all-out exposure. A bit here and a bit there isn't as effective.
I am done with exposing....
Some feel that I have humiliated her by letting others read her transcripts....

I initially sent it to her mom, brother & a few friends in hopes they could help. They would not have believed me if I didnt send proof.

I am done with all this. I do not care for her anymore. I do not care what happens to her.

Maybe going thru all this will teach me a lesson. I will not hurt others....but I will stop caring about others in the future...if they are on fire..I will not dose them out. (this of course excludes my relatives)

I am wrong if I expose & wrong if I stay still.
So I just won't participate in this anymore.

I need to get a cold heart & start being tough on others.
But I won't start with her.
Jeff_R,

Why not listen to Dr Harley who is qualified with decades of experience for recovering marriages after adultery rather than some online bozo?

While we all here have our "opinion", I can assure you it is ONLY based on MB-advice and not our own armchair psychologist within.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Maybe going thru all this will teach me a lesson. I will not hurt others....but I will stop caring about others in the future...if they are on fire..I will not dose them out. (this of course excludes my relatives)

You have two choices here, should you decide to divorce.

You can (A) become a bitter, angry man, who doesn't give a rat's bum about others and therefore will never be able to have the happy, fulfilling future marriage that he deserves or (B) learn to stand up for yourself, to stand up for your boundaries, to make WISE choices in selecting a future life partner, and have a happy fulfilling marriage.

Which is it?

Why do you want to continue to be a victim AFTER this woman will be gone? Why are you choosing women who victimize you and then accept it? You understand that this is NOT the life you need to live, right?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I am done with exposing....
Some feel that I have humiliated her by letting others read her transcripts....

I initially sent it to her mom, brother & a few friends in hopes they could help. They would not have believed me if I didnt send proof.

I am done with all this. I do not care for her anymore. I do not care what happens to her.

Maybe going thru all this will teach me a lesson. I will not hurt others....but I will stop caring about others in the future...if they are on fire..I will not dose them out. (this of course excludes my relatives)

I am wrong if I expose & wrong if I stay still.
So I just won't participate in this anymore.

I need to get a cold heart & start being tough on others.
But I won't start with her.

Ok, hoss, it sounds like you're down in that slump that we've all been in.

If you had kids, I'd say keep exposing and doing Plan A for a bit to try to salvage this.

Since you don't have kids and since she has a history of infidelity, then I'd say bolt because you shouldn't try to save this.

That's my opinion as an outsider looking in, but if you want to try to recover this then we'll support your efforts in it.

Your call.

I'm sorry it hurts to hear that I am doing something wrong...when I didnt deserve any of this....

Its hard to accept that someone can come along, make a comment & make me rethink all this....

I know you guys are right though....

I don't need to humiliate her any further by letting her close friends know. They won't intervene. I have to admit, it would be so they know the truth, but also as a way for me to hurt her as well. She is not coming back & I know this.
My only option now is to file & move back into my house.

And keep telling myself...I did not doing anything wrong

I wonder if changing the locks would be a good idea....and if she wanted to get inside the house, she needed a friend to accompany her.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I'm sorry it hurts to hear that I am doing something wrong...when I didnt deserve any of this....

We know, man. We've all gotten that t-shirt.

I, and probably others, just don't want you to quasi-halfway-recover this, have kids and then be in this boat again five years from now. It's so much worse once children are involved.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
My only option now is to file & move back into my house.

And keep telling myself...I did not doing anything wrong

I wonder if changing the locks would be a good idea....and if she wanted to get inside the house, she needed a friend to accompany her.

You just come home, unpack and move right on in. While she's standing there with a shocked look, you tell her that she needs to leave (go live with her parents or her adultery partner for a while).

Sure you can change the locks. If she drags the police over, just say you lost your keys the other day and are concerned that someone might find them and break in.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
if she wanted to get inside the house, she needed a friend to accompany her.

No need to insist on her bringing a (biased) friend with her. Instead, have someone with you that you trust.

Go buy a voice recorder that you can put in your pocket and record all conversations with her. An iPod or iPhone may do the trick as well--just make sure you can upload the recording and save it somewhere.

Ok, I feel better now. I'm not a bitter person, at least I hope not. I tend to think that I am a calm & loving person. I'm one of the few men that I know that cries over stuff like this.

She can move in with one of her friends, who cares.

I am going to talk to a lawyer about garnishing her wages in order to help pay for the mortgage (a fair amount, since she won't be living there). This is until we can sell it.

She will have to pay for the cleanup & repainting of the house so we can put it on the market.

She will have to pay for some of the attorney fees

She will also have to pay me back for the IVF (invitro fert) treatment that we had planned back in January. We paid up front. My part was nearly $9,000. So if she gets a refund, I want this back.


Uhhh, as gently as possible......

Dude, I would not yet start writing checks against all the funds you think you will be extracting from WW.

As badly as you feel you have been screwed and abused by her actions, such treatment will pale in comparison to the treatment you will get by the biased court system in this country.

If you are bound and committed to pursue Plan D, locate the nastiest, most tenacious lawyer in your geography (and it will help it it's a female), and consult right now.

BUT THIS PART IS NOT A SUGGESTION:

Do not (as in never) have any face-to-face contact with skanky without having in your possession and "on" a micro-recorder. She (calculating, and already in possession of the home) is a prototypical conjurer of mostly mythical domestic violence complaints against her BH. Those of us who have fought those battles will display our scars if necessary.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I will expose more to her friends today.

I will also contact her & tell her that I am moving back into my house Saturday morning. That will give her enough time to get her stuff, cats, etc out.

I will also tell her that if she wants to stay there are some conditions:

1) no contact with this guy (or any other guy she met online)
2) individual counseling
3) marriage counseling
4) gps in her car
5) total access to her phone, passwords, etc
6) reconciliation with her family & mine

If she can not do this, she is to move out & be ready to accept D papers.

How does this sound?


What happened to the MB conditions that MelLane posted to you?

No counselling!!! Noooooo.

OK, so we know she wont meet the conditions, but might as well offer them... When she says no, say her refusal to act as a married woman is why youre kicking her out.

If you dont want to offer, just say she's out because of her affairs.

Oh and just ignore what her family & friends say. One part shame and two parts ignorance.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
One of the reasons that exposure won't help in your situation is because the power of exposure lies in its ability to pierce the fog. Your wife is not in a fog. This is NORMAL for her, so the weapon of exposure will avail you nothing, IMO.

If you agree with me on these 2 points:

1. that your marriage is hopeless unless she makes radical personal changes

and

2. that YOU cannot change her

....then you should be willing to take it to the next step. File for divorce NOW and then go to her and say I will give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness and demonstrate radical changes while the divorce is being processed. If you can demonstrate radical changes in that time, I will consider dropping the divorce. If not, we will be divorced.

If you make that offer, you win either way. If she changes - which I assure you she won't - you will have a great marriage. If not, then you will be divorced. You can't lose if you follow that plan.

You need to file for divorce NOW and get legal protection because she views you as a personal ATM to plunder and rape. This way you will be protected no matter what.

In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. Otherwise you want to get divorced. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc - complete access to her cell phone, bank account, email account

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> &#150; passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

7. get rid of her computer and agree to never go on a computer unless you are there

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage with a serial cheater.

And it is not enough that she AGREES to those changes. Only actions will suffice. Make sure she understands that because any half witted liar can agree to anything just keep her sugar poppa daddy. Make it clear you will give her NO money and no support until and unless you see radical, demonstrable, convincing changes over a period of time.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
....
Some feel that I have humiliated her by letting others read her transcripts....


"Oh I agree that husband and wife conversations should be private. But discussions with a stranger should not be so racy and embarassing for everybody. You are so right about that"

"I say live your life as though people will end up reading about it in the papers. That's what I do. Are you an honest and open person in YOUR life too?"

These are some replies I found useful. If you can be bothered. Just dont pick up the phone to these nasty enablers otherwise.
Hey JR... I don't know how to say this.
There is nothing at all unreasonable about the MB conditions indiegirl reposted

Look I am a WW. I was discovered in May and exposed in June and now mid-July I am here at my father's home taking a long hard look at my life, marriage, decision making and future plans.

My BS isn't sure what we wants to do or whether or not he wants to remain married to me. I will tell you though... I have given him EVERYTHING he has asked of me. I have bided my time and given him the opportunity to come to an honest decision about what he wants to do. I could be waiting here awhile. Let me tell you I really struggle with not crawling up his butt to apologize, lament, and beg every 5 minutes.

I have taken the opportunity I have been given while living with my parents to obtain IC to work on me and go to AlAnon meetings to see how I feel about his relationship with drugs and alcohol. It has been terrifying to imagine what could becoming around the corner for me. It has been the battle of my life. I may find that I can't be married to him either.

HOWEVER. I have left nothing hidden from him. Nothing. And let me tell you he is not pleased about AlAnon. My darling BS deserves my honesty and my best work. Even if that honesty costs me the marriage. I have done a terrible thing to the love of my life, but I have not given up. I will continue to give him ANYTHING he asks of me and offer what he doesn't even think to ask of me.

If she really wants to save your marriage and herself she will gladly accept these terms and ask how else can she make amends to you. I just want to show you what a remorseful WW is willing to do. Do not accept anything less.
Thanks, I'm glad that there are people here that know how to deal with these things....

I don't think she will be willing to save anything.

We don't have children & she is unable to have any.

So maybe my Wayward wife is right, she is going thru a mid life crisis in a way.
Jeff,

The concept of MLC "Mid Life Crisis" is not supported around here.

Besides, even if that "theory" were true, it would mean a drastic change in personality. She's always been like this. Trolling on the internet for men is a way of life for her, it has been for years even before you met her.

Not so much a "midlife crisis" (if there is such a thing) as a general lack of appropriate boundaries around men.

I'm guessing you were guy #15 when you met her and you rightfully assumed that there wouldn't be a guy #16. She never really made that agreement. Once she got what she needed from you, she moved on--kind of like trading in a car.

She was just broken to begin with and the two of you just have different ideas of how she should live her life.
Originally Posted by alis
Jeff,

The concept of MLC "Mid Life Crisis" is not supported around here.

Besides, even if that "theory" were true, it would mean a drastic change in personality. She's always been like this. Trolling on the internet for men is a way of life for her, it has been for years even before you met her.

Wow, great minds think alike? smile
Yes, you are right...

She was on the internet quite a bit when I met her.
She had a profile on a few dating websites.

She mentioned to me, that before she met me, that she had met some of the guys in person from online.
But that it never went anywhere though. Some she liked, some she didnt. Some didn't meet her attractiveness qualities, and she said that some men thought that she didnt meet theirs.

I met her on a dating site. It was by chance actually. I had been on E-Harmony, nothing panned out from it. So I just happened to look at some others & there she was.

Later on, we tried to avoid answering if anyone asked us how we met.


----
I don't know if this makes a difference or not...but she did read what I call 'romance' novels.

She has the series for 50 Shades of Gray, & others I would assume are like that.

She says that the novels don't have anything to do with this.
Jeff ... i just read your thread. I just wanted to point out a few things from my experience here with MB.

1. DOnt judge your wife by her words .. ONLY her actions.
2. People that have problems with exposure are either perpetrators of adultery or have never experienced the pain that comes with it.

Your wife has left you to the wolves .. and is stringing you along for as long as she can. Cut her off .. and let HER do the heavy lifting .. giver her HER space and time to think somewhere other than YOUR home. I am sure she has parents ... I am sure she has friends .. heck she could probably call up one of her OM's (sorry being a bit cheeky there).

I read your sig and see you say she reads romance novels ... they are a source of CONTRAST agasint you. They are womens porn. IF she is at home and read those all day you can be sure that she is meeting her own needs for SF without you too .. and that fantasy is pouring into her online adventures and seeking of OM while your hard at work all day.

STOP being a doormat! Man Up!! ***EDIT***
MNG
I found out some things awhile ago.
Seems my mother-in-law is backing my wife in her decision.



My Dear ( Wifes Name ),

This situation is on my mind almost all the time. I keep thinking of things I want to say to you. I don't want this to last much longer (our not talking to each other). Please don't beat yourself up about this. You made a mistake, but it can be forgiven. I am putting it behind me. We have got to restore our good mother-daughter relationship. It may take you longer than me. Please know that nothing you can do or say will make God love you any less than he already does. That goes for me, too.

I wish Jeff had not sent those texts to me. I think he did because he was trying to hurt you as much as you hurt him. But he hurt me in the process. I don't care if you have a relationship with James. He is probably a very good man. In fact, if he is someone who can make you happy, I'm all for it. But you just need to stop those kind of texts and save those words for when you are face to face. Anything you send over the Internet is there for everyone.

I hope you can find it in your heart to respond to me. We are so worried about you and what you are going to do.

Love, Mom




( Wifes Name ),

After I talked to you yesterday, I realized that there were some things I didn't say that I wanted to. First of all, Dad and I support you 100% in your decision to divorce Jeff. We really do understand what you have been through the last 6 years. You have tried your best to make it work, and if it hasn't in 6 years, it is not going to. Jeff has said he will change, but has not. A person just cannot change the way he is made even if he really wants to. You absolutely cannot expect to spend the rest of your life with someone who does not show you that he loves you even if he says he does. How miserable would that be? I know there are so many things that he does that just turn you off, and you just can't live with someone like that forever. It is not fair.

I wish I had not told you what ( Wifes Brother ) said about Jeff having more reason to divorce you than you do him. He simply does not know and understand the history. I think Jeff has emailed ( Wifes Brother ) a couple of times probably putting the blame on you and that gives ( Wifes Brother ) the wrong idea. ( Wifes Brother ) thinks that Jeff still loves you (and I'm sure he does in his own way) but there is a huge difference between saying it and acting like it. Jeff has been around a mother and father who don't show each other affection and that is what he is used to. He really does not know how to relate to people in a loving, affectionate way. You are so loving, gregarious and out going and Jeff is just the opposite. (I certainly don't have to tell you that, do I?)

I pray every day that you will find someone who will make you happy like you should be. I am sure that it will happen in time, but it will take some time.

If you want me to come up for a couple of days and start cleaning out the house, just let me know. You have enough food in your pantry to stock the Salvation Army! I could help pack that stuff up and get rid of it. Whatever you need me to do, I'll do it.

Love you very much,
Mom


I can't believe that Jeff would be so cruel as to send those messages to your friends! Have you heard from any of them in response? Are you staying in the house for as long as it takes to find a place? How is that coming? What have you been doing everyday? Is Jeff also staying in the house? I'm so sorry you are having to do all this by yourself. Are you sure you don't want us to help you? There is so much to do. Please let us know what the situation is now. Have you told James about any of this?

Love you very much,
Mom and Dad


Jeff ... see my previous post. Most likely your MIL is falling in category #2 (mother like daughter? scenerio) Sorry your not getting the support you need. Your wife has spun you to be a crazy bad guy of some kind.

Edit to add minor detail.
I think your wife is considered a poor ickle princess by her mother who has spoiled her and excused her from responsible behaviour all her life. She should have just gotten a doll instead of a daughter.

And how dreadfully uncaring to describe an internet troll asking for explicit pics as a good man! I can tell you if any man tried such a thing with me, my parents would have him hunted down.

Basically she's not interested in her daughters thoughts/feelings/actions. She simply is not interested. She would think the same about her daughter no matter what repulsive act she did because she just considers her a doll to pet and appease into a show of a 'mother daughter relationship'

I feel your pain. My WH has a wayward dad, I didn't know at the time but I've found out since.

At the time his first reaction was shock "But indie and he have a special bond!" (Note this sentence implies you can betray your vows if you don't feel bonded)

Then he went around town rebutting my exposure and calling me a liar. But this only led people to examine HIM more closely.

I see a lot of the same language here.'Its OK if you don't feel bonded' 'follow your happiness and ignore your vows' 'let's pretend a POSOM is a good man'

Get back in that house and let's see how supportive Mr and Mrs Enabler are when she's on their doorstep and THEY have to put up with her.

Which I suspect is their real concern in guilting you out.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I think your wife is considered a poor ickle princess by her mother who has spoiled her and excused her from responsible behaviour all her life. She should have just gotten a doll instead of a daughter.

And how dreadfully uncaring to describe an internet troll asking for explicit pics as a good man! I can tell you if any man tried such a thing with me, my parents would have him hunted down.

Basically she's not interested in her daughters thoughts/feelings/actions. She simply is not interested. She would think the same about her daughter no matter what repulsive act she did because she just considers her a doll to pet and appease into a show of a 'mother daughter relationship'

I feel your pain. My WH has a wayward dad, I didn't know at the time but I've found out since.

At the time his first reaction was shock "But indie and he have a special bond!" (Note this sentence implies you can betray your vows if you don't feel bonded)

Then he went around town rebutting my exposure and calling me a liar. But this only led people to examine HIM more closely.

I see a lot of the same language here.'Its OK if you don't feel bonded' 'follow your happiness and ignore your vows' 'let's pretend a POSOM is a good man'

Get back in that house and let's see how supportive Mr and Mrs Enabler are when she's on their doorstep and THEY have to put up with her.

Which I suspect is their real concern in guilting you out.

OOoo .... Quoting for TRUTH!

indie i think im going to follow your posts more. I like your sassy and direct style!
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Are you staying in the house for as long as it takes to find a place?

Translation: Do NOT come here! rotflmao
It hurts to to hear my MIL to talk about me this way....

I know my WW is still talking to the guy as of yesterday via messanger. I'm sure she is still texting. She told me Friday that the guy was out of the picture. So she lied about that...

Yep she is a princess to her mom & dad.
I think her dad does not know what is going on, but I could be wrong.
Buddy, to hell will all of them.

Like mother like daughter, or vice versa. If the parents don't have moral character, then it stands to reason that the daughter (your WW) would be the same way.

Move back in the house and let them deal with her.
At first my MIL was upset by what she read in the cybersex transcript. She told my wife that it was evil & wrong.
Of course my WW did not like that reaction, so she stopped contact with her mom.

From what I can tell in their correspondence, her mom has come around to agree with WW in order for them to keep in contact.

To the point that am some sort of bad guy...that my lack of being outgoing or lack of affection is a justification for all this.

Of course, this is simply not true at all.
I do understand that I was not giving her the needs that she desired most. But my problem was that I just didnt know how to sustain this over time. I did them in the beginning of our relationship, I suppose, and I admit that things waned after we got married. I should have met her needs as best as I could.

My needs on the other hand were met only partially, but that is a different story...since I did not cheat on her.



My needs on the other hand were met only partially, but that is a different story...

Sorry, dude, a marriage only exists as one story, as I found out. Obviously probably too late to have a palliative effect on your current union, if you take the effort to immerse yourself in the MB program, you will see that the spiral spins both ways. A couple each paying heed to tending to the other's ENs will concatenate the benefits, and RAISE the level of attention and affection. Conversely, one or both spouse failing to satisfy the other's needs will foment reciprocal dis-engagement from the other, and the mutual level of attachment will ratchet down.

Do NOT underestimate your own subliminal awareness of WW's not tending to your needs as a proximate cause of your not tending to hers. The only question in such a case is whose needs will be dire enough to cause the inadequately built and maintained boundaries to infidelity to be breached.

In NO WAY is this placing blame on you for WW's actions. I just wanted to point out that in the future, you would have significant control over the possibility of a future partner remaining faithful. It's not too early to get with the program.
I now understand that she was the more vulnerable one to cross boundaries. We've had many discussions about the fact that I was not meeting her needs....needs of passion or what she called "showing that you love me".

I guess I changed from a passionate, romantic guy over the years to one that is comfortable & boring. Her mom is right...I'm not as outgoing as my WW..... But I do think I am loving. Her mom is wrong to say her daughter is more loving than I.....how can you be more loving when you have ruined a relationship this way....a way that is one of the most traumatic situations anyone can go thru.

I am still not living in our house. I have moved all my belongings out. I could not stay there & be around the lie anymore. I've allowed her to stay in our home because I care about her.....and maybe...just maybe....I am loving as well.
Oh well, they can't see that. I am the bad guy b/c I exposed this secret and that I sent the transcript to her mom in order to hurt her..???? My question to them is, what was hurtful....me sending it to them...or the actual contents of the transcript..?..?

Part of me feels that her mom is just trying to keep a dialogue with WW so that she won't shut her out. But my WW does this sort of thing...like a child's temper tantrum....agree with me or else feel my wrath!!
Her mom folded on me like badly stacked cards. She went from chastising WW to saying it is ok...that I am a bad guy.

I did go by the house this past Thursday to let a property appraiser look around. The house was unkept....dishes in the sink, dirty dishes & beer bottles by the sofa & upstairs by the bed she sleeps in.

In letting the property appraiser guy look around...I had to first check out the room she sleeps in. To my surprise, I find a vibrator on the floor by the bed....and a mirror placed between the bed & the adjacent wall. I had to cover this up as best I could. I guess she has been using her smart phone to video call this guy while she plays with herself. Now I know why the mirror is by the bed.

This morning I snoop & find that he has emailed pics of his privates to her.

These past 2 weeks have felt like 2 months....everything is in slow motion.

I feel like a cuckold....like less of a man....
Why oh why is my wife doing this...I understand the need for admiration part, but why the sexual stuff....



More Background....
Last year we decided we would try to have a child, but got frustrated with no results. My wife was examined & it was found that she is suffering from acute endometriosis. The doctor went on to say that since the condition she has can be pre-cancerous, she will eventually have to have a hysterectomy. She had a surgery to rid herself of as much of the endometriosis as possible. After a few months of healing, we knew we were going to have to consult a fertility specialist.

So, we consult a fertility doctor & start on program of IVF (invitro fert). It takes a while for the drugs to work to get her system to produce eggs. Back in January of this year, the big moment has arrived...we go to see if the hormone treatment has worked in producing viable eggs for us to use.

To our horror, the doctor tells us that my wife does not have enough eggs to make it worth while...that IVF will not work for us but that there were other options. My wife of course, was devastated...she cried & cried. I tried to be as consoling as I could. But I knew we could either try donor eggs or adoption. My wife was against having a donor egg, b/c she felt she would still know that the child wasn't hers biologically. It hurt me to hear this from her....as if since she didnt get her way she intended to have a baby...then there would be no other option.

She had heard that taking a supplement could help with her egg production, but the doctor said it wouldn't help. She started taking this supplement anyway from January to about April I suppose. The idea was that we could try IVF again in June & hopefully the supplement would have helped.

June came & went...by this time, she was already acting distant to me. Of course, now I know why....she was already engulfed in this cyber affair since early/mid May.

I have to wonder if learning that she can't have a child by IVF, got her to thinking about life....that being with me just isn't that great for her future. How can you go from wanting to have a child...to here..wanting to leave & getting involved in an cyber affair.

I was prepared to do what it took for us to have a child. Maybe if she would have gotten pregnant, then we wouldnt be going thru this mess now....


The last text between me & my WW was Sunday. We haven't communicated in almost a week. Her last text was how it was inexcusable for me to let her brother know the details of her cybersex transcript.

I know her mom is supposed to visit her tomorrow to help clean the house.

Should I even try to communicate with her at all?


Originally Posted by FarmerJ
This morning I snoop & find that he has emailed pics of his privates to her.

Forward them to her mother and brother, ha ha.

Originally Posted by FarmerJ
Should I even try to communicate with her at all?

Maybe in having her served, but, otherwise, I'd be glad that you found out about her before y'all had kids.

Divorce, divide the property and learn what not to look for in a wife next time.

[/quote]
Divorce, divide the property and learn what not to look for in a wife next time. [/quote]


I did talk to a lawyer on Wednesday. She told me that we do not want to go the traditional route & fight for money/stuff...that we should have an binding agreement written up that we can both agree on. Noncontested is the way for us. I just don't want to spend money on lawyers for this to be over for me.
I would also rather not divide up my money nor any of my stuff. (We don't have joint bank accounts.)

I plan on telling her that I will get a legally binding agreement made that will get this all over with as soon as possible. The only thing that we need to agree on is how the mortgage is to be taken care of.

My plan is for me to live in the house until we can sell it, and for my WW to sent me payment each month to help pay for the mortgage ($400-500 monthly) until that time. We can keep our own money. But we can split our IRS refund & split the IVF refund (approx $7500). She can have the tv, furniture, bed, food, etc.

What a nightmare this has all been......went from wanting to have a child (by an extreme method) to my wife cybersexting a guy she met online that lives near Chicago.
I will never forget this event in my life...I hope she doesn't either.
Kick her out for goodness sake!

She's commiting adultery from your marital bed and ruining any chances of a sale with her pig pen lifestyle.

What does she have to do before you step up here?

I don't care about her complaints about how loving you were/are/is. That's nonsense spoken by a skank.

You care so much about being viewed as the nice guy you've entered Plan Doormat.

Its not nice to smile, sit back and allow evil to spread

Stand up.
Quote
My plan is for me to live in the house until we can sell it, and for my WW to sent me payment each month to help pay for the mortgage ($400-500 monthly) until that time.
Make sure this is filed with the divorce agreement.
Please tell me you're documenting all of this?
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Kick her out for goodness sake!

She's commiting adultery from your marital bed and ruining any chances of a sale with her pig pen lifestyle.

What does she have to do before you step up here?

I don't care about her complaints about how loving you were/are/is. That's nonsense spoken by a skank.

You care so much about being viewed as the nice guy you've entered Plan Doormat.

Its not nice to smile, sit back and allow evil to spread

Stand up.



I see your point....I appreciate the truth.

I have to admit, I've been on a rollercoaster....sometimes I am mad about having to go thru this garbage & then sometimes I am sad that an 8 year relationship is being destroyed.

Part of me is sad that I have to start over again in my love life...

On the other hand, my family once in awhile hits me across the head...they say "do you think ____ would put up with this situation...do you think they would go back to someone like her..you know the answer." They would fill in the blank with everyone that I know.

And they are right, I don't know anyone that would accept that what has happened is ok or something you want to live in for the rest of your life.

I admit, I have been punishing myself with the 'what-ifs'...

I had a saying that came from a song that I used to say all the time to other people...
"You have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything."
I guess its time for to follow my own saying.

Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Please tell me you're documenting all of this?
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT


Yes I have all her texts to me.
I have the emails as well
I guess I should write them down...oh man, I think I might get a family member to do this...I don't really want to read them again.


Should I even try to communicate with her at all?

Absolutely!

And in the following fashion:

{Sound of front door flying open} "Hi, snookums! I'm HOME! To STAY! IN MY [censored] HOUSE!"

Then walk into YOUR bedroom, break the mirror, and kick Mr BuzzBomb into the corner.

But you won't do that, will you?
Quote
I admit, I have been punishing myself with the 'what-ifs'...
Stop doing that. GO HOME. If she doesn't like you being in your home, then SHE needs to leave. Not YOU.
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Should I even try to communicate with her at all?

Absolutely!

And in the following fashion:

{Sound of front door flying open} "Hi, snookums! I'm HOME! To STAY! IN MY [censored] HOUSE!"

Then walk into YOUR bedroom, break the mirror, and kick Mr BuzzBomb into the corner.

But you won't do that, will you?



Nope I can't do this....yet.

The lawyer said to avoid anything that would make her mad...
I am trying to keep the eventual D as simple as possible.
I do not want to get lawyers involved, it will cost me so much.
I could lose 1/2 my retirement, 1/2 my bank account, etc.


Yeah I would like to break the mirror....or at least remove the batteries out of the vibrator.

What a sick woman.....video calling herself masturbating to a guy up who is 1,000 miles away. What a sick world...

And she can tell him that she loves him....

Quote
Nope I can't do this....yet.

The lawyer said to avoid anything that would make her mad...
I am trying to keep the eventual D as simple as possible.
I do not want to get lawyers involved, it will cost me so much.
I could lose 1/2 my retirement, 1/2 my bank account, etc.
Friend, you are GOING to lose 1/2 your retirement in a divorce anyway. Do you not understand this? Your wife is entitled to half of your 'estate'. And she'll get it.

End the affair. GO HOME. NOW.
Sorry to tell you, but she has a better chance of getting half if not more of all that if you don't fight. Your lawyer wants his job to be easy.
She's going to get half anyway.
The Fantasy of Divorce
The lawyer said that I can write up a binding agreement, then we won't have to make it complicated by dividing stuff up. If we file with a lawyer, the retainer itself is btwn $3,000 - 5,000.

She has mentioned in a previous text to me about us being amicable.

I have noticed though, that she is taking all this very well.
She has gone to a Bonefish to eat, gone to a few massages, bought nearly $200 of stuff at Target, etc.

Originally Posted by FarmerJ
The lawyer said that I can write up a binding agreement, then we won't have to make it complicated by dividing stuff up. If we file with a lawyer, the retainer itself is btwn $3,000 - 5,000.

She has mentioned in a previous text to me about us being amicable.

I have noticed though, that she is taking all this very well.
She has gone to a Bonefish to eat, gone to a few massages, bought nearly $200 of stuff at Target, etc.
You need a meaner lawyer in your corner, friend. Don't let her take you to the cleaners because SHE screwed around on YOU. frown
Here is what I had to see in my house...
it hurt me to see this

http://postimage.org/image/qvihq0ovd/
Farmer, that's an unmade bed. What am I missing?
Well, it sounds like you have one helluva plan for divorce, but do you have any other plan in mind? If not, then why are you here?

And, yeah, what maritalbliss said, it looks like my bed. (Well it doesn't look exactly like that. I have really nice sheets).

What's your point?
He found a vib on the floor and the mirror was for a video.
He found a vib on the floor and the mirror was for a video.

I woulda rubbed it down with juice from a scotch bonnet or naga jolokia pepper!
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
He found a vib on the floor and the mirror was for a video.


Yep, I didnt think a photo of the vibrator would help...
The mirror is just too close to the bed to be anything other than for video.

She's been doing this for awhile now. Every other night, I see video calls she is making to the guy. I think she is the aggressor in the situation. She is actively sending out the video calls. oh man, it makes me feel like a loser.

Was my wife wanting sex like this? For me to talk dirty to her? http://pastebin.com/w5U0YL40

I know she reads the dirty romance novels...but I didnt know she wanted someone to talk to her this way.
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
He found a vib on the floor and the mirror was for a video.

I woulda rubbed it down with juice from a scotch bonnet or naga jolokia pepper!

NG you forgot to add "replace with dead batteries while removing all good batteries from the household"
ALL waywards SAY they want an amicable divorce. Why I believe my husband turned the phrase into a catchy song. Then they realise how much their new alleycat in heat lifestyle is going to cost and its no more Miss Acting-like-a-Nice-Girl.

Your lawyer sounds..poor. No experience of cheats and not really going for your best interests like a bulldog. Sounds like he wants an easy life. Have a few consults with recommended people to see if you get tougher advice.

Oh and stocking up on scotch bonnets, sounds GREAT.

But maybe better to just access the shame value. I would just make sure to grab ahold of it when you and your female relatives are confronting her and telling her to get out. Sling some of her clothes in a bag, wave the vibrator around in front of your aunts/mother/sisters and tell her you've had enough of her using the house for her porn videos. That's why she needs to leave RIGHT NOW

That should give you a real advantage.
I agree with Indie, farmer. Get a lawyer who will fight for you and your best interests.
I guess she is doing just fine with me gone...

I found out that she has been out to eat at restaurants a few times, had a massage or two, went to a karaoke bar, ....she even stopped at a Adult store yesterday.

Another video call last night....I wonder why after midnight though.

I feel shame that she is doing these things.

It hurts to know that she can go on with her life, maybe even have more fun with me not in her life.
We know what waywards do, J

What are you doing?
Originally Posted by indiegirl
We know what waywards do, J

What are you doing?


I'm trying my best to let this go & accept that what we have, has come to an end.

But to be honest, I've been tough on myself too.
This is my 2nd time going thru this....
I've been married twice.


Yes, I was unhappy in both. I thought I was willing to work things out...

OR maybe I just can't do what it takes. I just can't seem to sustain in meeting someone else's needs.


What woman would want to be with me knowing that these things have happened to me....she would have to take a gamble in thinking that I may not be able to meet her needs as well.

But above all, I really want to feel love & be with someone who loves me.



Her mom emailed me at the beginning of all this...she told me that she is saddened for what has happened, but she felt that we are not meant to be together. Her moms words have gotten into my head lately.


I am trying to understand what emotional need she felt was missing....if she has resorted to having cybersex with a stranger. I just don't understand what motivates someone to do this.

I guess I am in self pity land right now.
Sometimes I get mad about what my WW has done...but sometimes I blame myself for what has happened.




Move home. Today. It's your house. Get in there and let her figure out where she can go to masturbate and broadcast her homemade porn.

Don't drink the kool aid about what a terrible husband you are. You want to love and be loved. That's not a crime but perhaps after you get through your divorce and have time to recover, you'll perfect your ability to find someone who can love you and not rush into a marriage with an internet skank.

Your lady sounds spoiled. You don't express enough love for her? Ugh. You've got to stop sucking that crap in and see your own value. She and her family will NEVER be able to give you that.

GO HOME TODAY. Stand up for yourself and stake out your territory. She can move in with he mommy and take her sex toys with her.
Farmer,

It isn't about what EN you weren't meeting but about her poor and sloppy boundaries.
I think your problem here is committing to the MB approach. In order for it to work well its all or nothing - there are certain actions you need to take ( eg full esposure, plan A, Plan B..) but in order to take them you need to take on board why they work. A lot of it seems counter-intuitive at first - and it is diametrically opposite to what you will hear on other forums, and through counsellors. But MB is about the best route yet (tried and tested) for saving a marriage, and if it is not saved, for your own recovery. So half baked exposures and not wanting to humiliate your WS, for example by distributing the gory detail, all act to undermine the programme and make it less effective. When exposing you can always tell people you have proof and offer it to them if they then ask.
You said also that they wouldn't believe you without the evidence. In practice - unless they already know you as a liar - many will at least take it as a possibility.
So my take would that you drink the full MB Koolaid ( read the books - again if you already have and fully take them in). From that point give the system a go and ignore any advice that conflicts with it from counsellors, other forums and well-meaning "friends". Many, many people don't "get" MB. SO give the programme a chance and be prepared to be challenged when you do).
This would probably mean -
Move straight back in - no need to explain why, its your home.
Decide on a Plan A/Plan B strategy.
If you go straight to plan B - figure out a way of getting her out sooner rather than later ( keep up a plan A until she leaves then a complete NC dark plan B from thereon. That helps your own recovery in the divorce route as well as maximising the chances of a reconciliation, if that is what you want.

If you are now looking to divorce, then Plan B sooner rather than later.

Don't worry about being a nice guy - that won't work or help, despite what your WW or her mother says. And if being nice did bring her back, it would mean more Use/abuse of you while you are together. No, just be clear about your conditions. And do not waver from them an inch.


Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I'm trying my best to let this go & accept that what we have, has come to an end.

Hiding from your problems and allowing people to walk all over you will never lead to acceptance. It pretty much never works, but if you want to try it, I'm out because I can't help with that.

Originally Posted by FarmerJ
But to be honest, I've been tough on myself too.


In what way? Are you getting up and kicking her out?

Originally Posted by FarmerJ
What woman would want to be with me knowing that these things have happened to me....she would have to take a gamble in thinking that I may not be able to meet her needs as well.

But above all, I really want to feel love & be with someone who loves me.


Jeff, you're making excuses and talking about something else. Dating is waaaaaay in the future but your WW is attacking you RIGHT NOW. What are you going to do about the problem at hand?

Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I guess I am in self pity land right now.
Sometimes I get mad about what my WW has done...but sometimes I blame myself for what has happened.


You are in self pity land because it is easier to wallow in that than act.

If you want to do that, great.

If not than let us know when you are ready to act.

We aren't asking you to do anything we haven't done ourselves.

I got a good lawyer. I packed my WHs bags and changed the locks.

It isn't difficult.
I understand....
I am going to kick her out asap.

Snooped some more...found that she has registered at 2 different dating websites (curvydates, etc)

It makes me mad to see that she already has a dating profile with several photos.

She is back to doing what did before she met me....


She lists her description as being:

Yes, I am separated...will be single soon. Am in a good place in my life and happy with myself. Ready for some excitement in my life!! I am laid back, have been told I'm funny/witty, have a great job, love to travel, enjoy tennis and boating. Have many other interests, if you're interested in knowing me better let me know. I'm so glad I have realized there are plenty of men out there who have all I'm looking for and find me beautiful the way I am. Would love to get to know some great new guys. Location is not necessarily an issue since I am seriously considering travel nursing.
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I am going to kick her out asap.

Good, because you'd have a helluva time selling that house with all the crap and sex toys laying around. And the longer it takes to sell the house, the longer you'll have to deal with the STBxW.

I'd buy a new mattress, though.
What type of person signs up for a dating website, when all this has happened?

I haven't mentioned proceeding with a D or anything to her.

Does she even think about what has happened?
She is ready to find the next guy to be with.
Her boldness amazes me.

I wonder if she will tell them that she cheated on her husband.
Okay, this is really off the wall, but if I were you (and this is really what I would do) I would create a fake profile for one of those websites, fake pics, history, friends and all, in a town not too far away but not too close either to raise suspicion and reach out to her. Get her all worked up and then suggest a meeting at a nearby restaurant that is part of a hotel. Get her worked up to the point that she actually types what she wants to do to you, so you can print it off as an undeniable proof package.

Of course, after that, you make sure that all her friends and family have decided to have dinner at this place as well on that same night at the same time.

That might be an interesting exposure!
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
What type of person signs up for a dating website, when all this has happened?

I haven't mentioned proceeding with a D or anything to her.

Does she even think about what has happened?
She is ready to find the next guy to be with.
Her boldness amazes me.

I wonder if she will tell them that she cheated on her husband.
A woman who has no boundaries.

The kind of guys that she is most likely meeting are either 1)doesn't care that she is married because they are just looking for a piece of azz 2)are lying themselves about being married

When are you moving back home?

That will blow up her world? I would also remove that mirror and throw it in the garbage and all the "toys" and batteries!!!!
Okay, putting the radical part of my thought process aside, you could do the first part just to generate proof of her actions so that you will have some tangible evidence of what is really happening.

Are you back in the house yet? And yes, break the mirror, and burn the sex toys.
Agree. GO HOME. Put fresh sheets on the bed. Move that damned mirror. Yuck. Let her know that you aren't planning to lay down for her dealings with the POS men she's trolling for.

She is a married woman. She needs to consider that the man she's been doing online sex with is likely also a married man.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
What type of person signs up for a dating website, when all this has happened?

I haven't mentioned proceeding with a D or anything to her.

Does she even think about what has happened?
She is ready to find the next guy to be with.
Her boldness amazes me.

I wonder if she will tell them that she cheated on her husband.
A woman who has no boundaries.

The kind of guys that she is most likely meeting are either 1)doesn't care that she is married because they are just looking for a piece of azz 2)are lying themselves about being married

When are you moving back home?

That will blow up her world? I would also remove that mirror and throw it in the garbage and all the "toys" and batteries!!!!


I'm moving back in on Saturday.

I just have a hard time understanding how she can be so eager to get on dating websites....when today, two weeks ago was D-Day.

Who does this????

She has registered on at least 3 different site. She did this today... She has several pictures of herself, one of which I am cropped out of.

Why does she do this???
Can't she have any respect for what we had with each other???


I mean we were with each other for almost 8 years....

Back in January, we even planned on going thru an expensive IVF procedure in order to have a child.
How could then she start an online affair in less than 3 months after going thru that????

What has to be going thru her brain in order for this to make sense????
how she can be so eager to get on dating websites....Who does this????

She has registered on at least 3 different site. She did this today... She has several pictures of herself, one of which I am cropped out of. Why does she do this???

Can't she have any respect for what we had with each other???

I mean we were with each other for almost 8 years....How could then she start an online affair in less than 3 months after going thru that????

What has to be going thru her brain in order for this to make sense????


PLEASE, I'm begging you - stop with the agonizing transcendental questions. We're not impressed by multiple question marks!

They're a waste of your energy, our time, and millions of transmitted electrons.

Here is the only question you should ask:

What steps should I take, and attitudes assume, to grant myself the the best (however poor that might be) chance of successfully recovering from my WW's affair and emerging on the far side as a viable entity?

As brutal as it may sound (and I get accused of MUCH brutality), the rest of your actions here are basically the same thing as what WW is doing with Mr. BuzzBomb and the mirror!

So copy and paste the blue question above into your own note below, and commit to listening and acting on the responses, okay?
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
how she can be so eager to get on dating websites....Who does this????

She has registered on at least 3 different site. She did this today... She has several pictures of herself, one of which I am cropped out of. Why does she do this???

Can't she have any respect for what we had with each other???

I mean we were with each other for almost 8 years....How could then she start an online affair in less than 3 months after going thru that????

What has to be going thru her brain in order for this to make sense????


PLEASE, I'm begging you - stop with the agonizing transcendental questions. We're not impressed by multiple question marks!

They're a waste of your energy, our time, and millions of transmitted electrons.

Here is the only question you should ask:

What steps should I take, and attitudes assume, to grant myself the the best (however poor that might be) chance of successfully recovering from my WW's affair and emerging on the far side as a viable entity?

As brutal as it may sound (and I get accused of MUCH brutality), the rest of your actions here are basically the same thing as what WW is doing with Mr. BuzzBomb and the mirror!

So copy and paste the blue question above into your own note below, and commit to listening and acting on the responses, okay?
Farmer,

In addition to NG's great brutal (I don't think it's that brutal) advice are you on some ADs? They can help you stay focused on the above question and keep you moving forward.
I agree with BH and NG, you need to focus on YOU and your questions need to be about YOUR next move.

Asking questions about her state of mind is about as productive as asking kittens to unravel a ball of wool.

ADs might be an idea if you are finding it difficult to focus on YOU and YOUR plan.

Are you documenting stuff like her registering on dating sites? Could help you in a D..
Speaking for myself NG I have to say that I love your question, will use it myself and do not think it is brutal. It's just clear and no nonsense. Thank you.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I agree with BH and NG, you need to focus on YOU and your questions need to be about YOUR next move.

Asking questions about her state of mind is about as productive as asking kittens to unravel a ball of wool.

ADs might be an idea if you are finding it difficult to focus on YOU and YOUR plan.

Are you documenting stuff like her registering on dating sites? Could help you in a D..
Good idea indie,

Here you go farmer to help you out.
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I'm moving back in on Saturday.

Why Saturday? Is it far enough in the future to sound like you're making a plan but not so soon as to require actually doing something?

Look, hoss, we all know Saturday will come and go and nothing will happen. You're scared sh*tless of either your WW or the germs in the house, I'm not sure which, but that needs to change if you want to come through this reasonably sane.

What's she going to do? Get pissed off and leave you? Seriously, what's the hold up here?

Go home today. Don't tell her you're coming--just do it before your brain comes up with some reason for delaying.
Go home today. Don't tell her you're coming--just do it

From 27 July -
{Sound of front door flying open} "Hi, snookums! I'm HOME! To STAY! IN MY [censored] HOUSE!"

Then walk into YOUR bedroom, break the mirror, and kick Mr BuzzBomb into the corner.

But you won't do that, will you?


You are the only player in this game, my friend, and you won't participate.
Yeah I understand.

I'm the one that keeps getting kicked.

I went by my house today while she was at work.
She had a modem for her computer working.

I saw a phone book on our coffee table.
It had a page turned down in the attorney section.

I'm trying to avoid bringing attorneys into this.

If she does, yeah I am going home, at least until the police arrive. Someone told me that even though it is my house, she can keep me from living there since I left.
Quote
Someone told me that even though it is my house, she can keep me from living there since I left.
Baloney. It's YOUR HOUSE. You can come and go as you wish. You wish to return to your home now. Simple.

ETA: Get a VAR and wear it at all times while you are around your WW. You don't need a false domestic violence arrest. WW's have been known to trump those up.
What??????

You don't want a lawyer and you are following her rule about you not being there?!

I'm out.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
What??????

You don't want a lawyer and you are following her rule about you not being there?!

I'm out.


I know it sounds odd....I guess I am in the fog myself

It was my rule for me to leave....I couldn't handle what had happened, so I left. It was on impulse. I took out all my stuff, clothes, etc.

I was so mad that she lied to me for 2 months, that she was doing all this behind my back. I just couldnt take it, I had to leave. It hurt me so bad that she would lied to me for something that she knew I had issues with (past boundary issues & infidelity)


I have sent her a letter stating that we need to agree on how to handle the house. That other than the house, we can go our separate ways.

I just want this to be over as soon as possible. I hate her for hurting me, my family, her family & what we had. She disrespected me & everything about us.


I am in a state of anxiety everyday. I can hardly work. All I think about is this stuff.

I am going to see a counselor tomorrow.
Hopefully I can get help.
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I have sent her a letter stating that we need to agree on how to handle the house. That other than the house, we can go our separate ways.

I just want this to be over as soon as possible.

I still think you need to speak with an attorney before you just throw your hands up, acquiesce to her wishes and head for the hills. She's probably entitled to half of the marital property (including possibly your retirement) so you need legal advice as to whether or not her infidelity can negate her receiving her share.

Or, hope that she's dumb as a brick and just signs whatever you throw at her.

I'm sorry for all my confusion...

Part of me wants to punish her more & make her leave the area for good.
Part of me just wants this to be amicable.

I'm accepting that is is over between us.

Some times were good. I felt great when I first met her. She was really into me & that felt good. I had met a woman that wanted to be around me.

Sometimes were sad. Such as all the love busters she used to get me to meet her needs. She used guilt, angry outbursts, etc, so that I would meet her needs of admiration & affection.
She has this combination of anger & crying.

One time we went to a bar that had karaoke. Kind of dark old seedy place. We had been there a few times before. Not really my thing though. I try to be on my best behavior. I mean, I try to act like I enjoy it. This last time we went with a workmate of WW & her husband. It was late & I am tired. I am not into it but I have a few drinks anyway. I have to admit, I am the type of guy that can sit there & have a conversation with people & I am ok with that.

I know that my WW wants me to be the life of the party I guess. Which I just dont have in me.
And since we are in front of her friend from work & her husband, my WW expects me to be interactive.
Interactive to the extent that my WW approves my effort.
At one point while we are sitting there in our group, I could feel her angry crying eyes staring at me.
I turned to look at her, to say what is wrong....she gets up & goes the restroom. I wait awhile & go into the adjoining lobby.
She comes out of the restroom, she had been crying. I asked her what is wrong.

She says that I should be more interactive with her friends & that I should act like I am having a good time. She has this sort of angry sad crying eyes combination going on.
This type of thing has happened all the time since we have been together. It feels like she is evaluating me & seeing if I perform or meet what she wants me to do in order for her to be happy. I knew this was just a repeat of past criticisms, so I tell her to stop. I say to her that I am tired of this sort of thing, where she gets upset that I am not meeting her expectations. That it has been a long day, late night & that I am tired. She then blurted out "F__ You Jeff". I almost walked out of the restaurant. I really thought about leaving forever right then.

She went back to her seat with her friends & attempting to clear her eyes of tears so that they would not suspect she was upset.
I then went to my seat as well, trying to act as if nothing has happened. We sit there at the table making small talk with her friend & her husband. It felt weird to do that. After a while or so, I ask my WW to dance. She accepts & we go on the dance floor. She starts to dance with me. We danced for awhile. To me, she seemed to act as if nothing had happened previously....that the blow up never happened.

We had been there other times, and she never got mad like this.
I guess I was having a bad night & just didnt feel like being festive.


It hurt to be treated that way by her that night. That I am some sort of pet or man slave...that I have to act a certain way or else she will let me know in certain ways that I am making her unhappy.


This sort of thing happened all the time

It happened at our past anniversary dinner in April ....by her telling me "stop being an [censored]!"
This was due to me commenting on her surprise of another anniversary dinner at a Thai restuarant.
I had made the mistake (?) of telling her that I had been there before & that it was a great place.
I didnt mean to hurt her by letting her know this.
We left the restuarant & she had her anger/crying eyes. We didnt talk to each other for the rest of the night or the next day.

It happened in our bedroom. (Sorry for TMI) It had nothing to do with...getting everything going.
She would be 'satisfied' with what she got from it. Satisfied several times actually.
But she would complain that I had a hard time 'finalizing' everything for myself, so to speak.
The same attitude of being her being disappointed in me. I felt bad being criticized for that.


This has been a repeated scenario for me for our entire relationship.
Bascially, that I dissappoint her. That I can not meet her needs & that I will not change in order to meet them.
She used love busters to try to get me to meet them for her.

Sorry for the vent. I've never really talked about any of this before.
So you really don't want to try and save your marriage? Just straight to D?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
So you really don't want to try and save your marriage? Just straight to D?


Yes I ready to end this. Everyone else is telling me this as well. I have been hurt way too much by all this.

We couldn't have children, so that issue is resolved.


I just want to get away from her as fast as I can.
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
So you really don't want to try and save your marriage? Just straight to D?


Yes I ready to end this. Everyone else is telling me this as well. I have been hurt way too much by all this.

We couldn't have children, so that issue is resolved.

I just want to get away from her as fast as I can.
So as long as you can look back with no regrets.

Are you sure you're in the right frame of mind? You keep trying to figure out why she did it. So your love bank obviously still has a positive balance?
I can't say I'm in the right frame of mind....

I've accepted why she did it....I mean I know why she repeats doing this. boundaries, prone to looking outside the marriage for needs, etc

This is why she is already on dating websites...the same ones she used before I met her.
Because, this is her way of life.

I can't go back to her. She has moved on.

I guess my love bank is one that can never have a negative...no matter what happens.

But I can't continue being a door mat for her.
If we did make up, she is likely to do this again.

But she has already made up her mind a long time ago that she is gone. (at least 2-3 months ago).

Hey, if we had children, I'd fight for us. But we don't, and she probably can never have children.

What regrets could I have? THat I accepted that a serial cheater wants to leave me so that she can find "the one" for her. A person who reads romance novels & watches realtiy shows like Bachelorette....Which one has to admit can skew someones view on what a realistic relationship is about.

I don't have regrets. I tried to expose to her family & friends. She got angry. None of them helped. They all told her what she is doing is ok.

What did I have to work with. If we did get back together, would the recovery be even worth it. I don't really think so.

I'm sorry, I have my ups & downs. Right now, I guess I am feeling mad & angry about having to go thru all this.

Its better to feel this way than be sad & have a pity party for myself.
So you really don't want to try and save your marriage? Just straight to D? - Brainy

Wow! Given the immediacy of the karaoke story and the intimation that that was the norm, there ain't a whole lot to save!

I just want to get away from her as fast as I can. - FJ

Stop lying to us, okay?

"...as fast as I can," would have had you dialing 1-800-LEGALLEACH instead of typing to us.

This site gets people through the trauma resulting from infidelity. The likely end states can be reconciliation, or dissolution. Interminably reading your moaning about how bad she did treat you, is treating you and how lousy all that makes you feel is not what we do here. So pick one:

1 - Move home, commit to ruining her life that facilitated her affair, and fight for your rights, or
2 - Get the hell out of that sham of a union, as soon as your jurisdiction will give you your release.

Do you not understand you need nobody's permission, or concurrence, to get either of those initiated, just your own choice?
Stop venting and start DOING. You're sat on the train tracks with a freight train headed straight for you. You don't have time to vent!

Safeguard your finances, legal situation and your home NOW

THEN you can vent. AFTERWARDS

Get moving!!!

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Stop venting and start DOING. You're sat on the train tracks with a freight train headed straight for you. You don't have time to vent!

Safeguard your finances, legal situation and your home NOW

THEN you can vent. AFTERWARDS

Get moving!!!


WOW, all the 2x4's I'm getting.


How can I safeguard my finances?
See a lawyer about what she can get, how you can protect yourself and transfer any joint account funds into an account she doesnt have access to....
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
WOW, all the 2x4's I'm getting.


How can I safeguard my finances?

The 2x4's are not meant in a mean way--just a "we want you to cover your [censored]" kind of way.

If there are any joint credit cards, remove her name if you are the primary holder. You're still married and may still be on the hook for marital debt if nothing has been filed that says otherwise.

Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
WOW, all the 2x4's I'm getting.


How can I safeguard my finances?

The 2x4's are not meant in a mean way--just a "we want you to cover your [censored]" kind of way.

If there are any joint credit cards, remove her name if you are the primary holder. You're still married and may still be on the hook for marital debt if nothing has been filed that says otherwise.


No joint credit cards or checking accounts.
thank goodness

Anything else I can do to protect myself? I don't know what options I have.
An attorney could advise on the rest. I think you'd feel better (more in control) if you met with one to see what options are available in your state.

I'd carry a voice recorder whenever you talked to your WW. Particularly when you moved back home.
Okay, here we go once again.

If you and WWW (Web-Wayward Wife) have no joint liquid financial assets, then there remains only the non-liquid real asset - the house. You remember the house - the one she "shamed" you out of, the one in her possession which has you so terrified you can't bring yourself to re-occupy, the one of which she has been enjoying sole control of, the one from which she's transmitting her skanky behavior. The longer you are absent from said domicile, the stronger case she will have for primary ownership.

GO THE HELL HOME!

(And oh, btw: While there if you hear her conducting another lewd taping, commence your newly started bagpipe lessons. It's not necessary to be GOOD, just LOUD!)
Listen J, she's good at what she does. She's sucking you dry financially by setting up residence in the house and lining up a lawyer. WHILE sending out shockwaves of pain aimed at keeping you too dazed and confused to see her coming.

OUR job is to counteract her work by yelling WAKE UP, Though we know how dazed and in pain you feel you MUST get to work now.

Move home. (Scary? Yes. Doable? Yes) Take female relatives. Put on a smooth face and tell her that her continued adultery and online promiscuity while in your home is unacceptable. Tell her she must end her As or get out.

Then set up appointments with at least three lawyers who specialise in divorce and pick the toughest one.
NG and IG are really giving you good advice.
Well I went to see another lawyer today.

He said that I have the right to go back to my home.
BUT to be cautious. He has seen instances where people have gotten violent, even in cases where no one has any history of it.
And to be cautious of her filing false claims of domestic abuse against me.

I don't think my WW would be violent in any way.
But I could be wrong....I also never thought she would have done what she did either.

I have talked it over with my mom...she does not want to go to my house. She is afraid that my WW could hurt us. I don't think so, but she is really afraid that it could happen.


Before you go back, get a VAR and have it on you at all times when around WW. Don't assume anything at this point. Your lawyer is right. There are WAY too many bad stories around here because BHs didn't take necessary precautions and wound up in some pretty bad situations. Get the VAR first thing (voice activated recorder).
Before you go back, get a VAR and have it on you at all times when around WW.

And don't forget the bagpipes, or fluegelhorn, or whatever!

The point is, you cannot be sneaking into your own home like some burglar. Your intent is to arrive LARGE and IN CHARGE, daring her to continue to act like some alleycat in heat in your house!
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I have talked it over with my mom...she does not want to go to my house. She is afraid that my WW could hurt us. I don't think so, but she is really afraid that it could happen.
One more thing, your mom being there would be the best thing possible to diffuse a possible violent confrontation for 2 reasons.

1) Just because she's there and having to face the music with someone other than just you.
2) A witness.

If your mom can't do it(and I would certainly understand if she couldn't), is there another person that can? Or even persons? Strength in numbers.
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Before you go back, get a VAR and have it on you at all times when around WW.

And don't forget the bagpipes, or fluegelhorn, or whatever!

The point is, you cannot be sneaking into your own home like some burglar. Your intent is to arrive LARGE and IN CHARGE, daring her to continue to act like some alleycat in heat in your house!
I have a tenor saxophone that I used to play terribly that I would be more than happy to FedEx to you at no charge to aid in your efforts.
Quote
He said that I have the right to go back to my home.
BUT to be cautious.
Yes, you do need to keep your own best interests in mind. Wear a VAR. Keep it with you at all times.

But GET BACK IN THERE. She doesn't have any right to that house that you don't have! You shouldn't be slinking away to allow her 'mirror' time. IT'S YOUR HOUSE.
UPDATE

Here is my letter to my STBXW & her response:

-------
Hey, I haven't heard anything from you since last Sunday, so I wanted to see how everything was.

I've been thinking about all this...if I could not give you what you wanted & needed, then I think you should be able to find what can make you happy in life.

I don't want to stand in your way. I was just trying my best to save what we had.

Anyway, given all that has happened, I think that perhaps we should go ahead & go our separate ways.

I really hate that it has gotten to this point.
I also think we should do it in an easy & fast way so we can get on with our lives.
I want to be happy & I know you want to be happy as well.

I believe we can work out a simplified agreement on how to handle all this.

And since we only have the house together, that is where I think we can discuss on how to handle it.

I think the best thing to do is to sell the house as quickly as possible. And we can agree on how to best do this.

I think we both can say that keeping this simple will be better.

If we can agree on what we can do, then we can then go our separate ways that much quicker.

Once we can get an agreement worked out between us, I am willing to seek & pay a legal person or notary to take care of it all.

Love, jeff


----------


Hey, well honestly I was waiting for you to get back to me since I texted last.

So, I read your email...I mean, as difficult a decision as this is...I feel its the right one. I really do feel as though we can find people who compliment us better. I will cooperate with everything and make it as easy as possible. Will probably be out of the house sometime in Sept.

Hopefully in time we can forgive each other and be friends. You never saw the other texts that said I would have never met James unless I was officially single, and even then it would have been a remote possibility. You didn't talk to me about anything...just took what you saw and ran with it and tried to ruin me with it. I would have never taken that final step...its not in me to do that to someone. Those texts were supposed to be "not real"...not seen by anyone...and I figured the "relationship" would just dissolve eventually and not be a part of my real life at all...and I'm certain it would have if given the opportunity. The fact still remains that I've been unhappy with us for a long time and I don't believe counseling wouldn't have helped. My biggest regret is not having the heart to just talk to you about everything and just end things on decent terms when it was a possibility.

I do wish you nothing but happiness and I really pray you find a wonderful woman who you can have children with and a happy life with. Someone who brings out the best in you...I know I didn't do that for you. Hopefully I can find someone who will adopt with me and bring out the best in me as well.

Love, WW
I shoulda known this was going down the toilet when he had to ask approval from "Mommy" about whether to reclaim his own home from the cyber-whore living there. Instead of the needed "John Wayne", what shows up is "Tiny Tim"!

I will leave to others any remaining communication on this thread. This is NG, signing off!

(And forget the bagpipes, dude! Instead, bring a squeegee to help keep her mirror sparkly clean!)
Quote
I will cooperate with everything and make it as easy as possible. Will probably be out of the house sometime in Sept.
No she won't, and I've got 50 cyber bucks to bet on it. She'll be there as long as you allow her to be in control. Why shouldn't she? You're allowing her to steer the ship. Time to man up and get your [censored] back in that house....NOW!

Seriously pal, if this is the way she wants to act, then she can do it in another zip code.

Where did your nads go?

Man the eff up!!!!!!!!

Sheez!

Originally Posted by FarmerJ
UPDATE

Here is my letter to my STBXW & her response:

-------
Hey, I haven't heard anything from you since last Sunday, so I wanted to see how everything was.

I've been thinking about all this...if I could not give you what you wanted & needed, then I think you should be able to find what can make you happy in life.

I don't want to stand in your way. I was just trying my best to save what we had.

Anyway, given all that has happened, I think that perhaps we should go ahead & go our separate ways.

I really hate that it has gotten to this point.
I also think we should do it in an easy & fast way so we can get on with our lives.
I want to be happy & I know you want to be happy as well.

I believe we can work out a simplified agreement on how to handle all this.

And since we only have the house together, that is where I think we can discuss on how to handle it.

I think the best thing to do is to sell the house as quickly as possible. And we can agree on how to best do this.

I think we both can say that keeping this simple will be better.

If we can agree on what we can do, then we can then go our separate ways that much quicker.

Once we can get an agreement worked out between us, I am willing to seek & pay a legal person or notary to take care of it all.

Love, jeff


----------


Hey, well honestly I was waiting for you to get back to me since I texted last.

So, I read your email...I mean, as difficult a decision as this is...I feel its the right one. I really do feel as though we can find people who compliment us better. I will cooperate with everything and make it as easy as possible. Will probably be out of the house sometime in Sept.

Hopefully in time we can forgive each other and be friends. You never saw the other texts that said I would have never met James unless I was officially single, and even then it would have been a remote possibility. You didn't talk to me about anything...just took what you saw and ran with it and tried to ruin me with it. I would have never taken that final step...its not in me to do that to someone. Those texts were supposed to be "not real"...not seen by anyone...and I figured the "relationship" would just dissolve eventually and not be a part of my real life at all...and I'm certain it would have if given the opportunity. The fact still remains that I've been unhappy with us for a long time and I don't believe counseling wouldn't have helped. My biggest regret is not having the heart to just talk to you about everything and just end things on decent terms when it was a possibility.

I do wish you nothing but happiness and I really pray you find a wonderful woman who you can have children with and a happy life with. Someone who brings out the best in you...I know I didn't do that for you. Hopefully I can find someone who will adopt with me and bring out the best in me as well.

Love, WW
So...you've just gotten your 'shove-off' email. You've cleared the path for her continued infidelity; you've high-fived her on that. Can you agree to NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING to end the marriage?? Stop with the agreeing to pay for legal fees!

AND GO HOME!! GET YOUR HOME BACK! SHEESH! DO IT NOW!
Stop asking her permission.
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
.

I've been thinking about all this...if I could not give you what you wanted & needed, then I think you should be able to find what can make you happy in life.

I don't want to stand in your way. I was just trying my best to save what we had.

Anyway, given all that has happened, I think that perhaps we should go ahead & go our separate ways.

I really hate that it has gotten to this point.
I also think we should do it in an easy & fast way so we can get on with our lives.
I want to be happy & I know you want to be happy as well.

I believe we can work out a simplified agreement on how to handle all this.

And since we only have the house together, that is where I think we can discuss on how to handle it.

I think the best thing to do is to sell the house as quickly as possible. And we can agree on how to best do this.

I think we both can say that keeping this simple will be better.

If we can agree on what we can do, then we can then go our separate ways that much quicker.

Once we can get an agreement worked out between us, I am willing to seek & pay a legal person or notary to take care of it all.

Love, jeff


----------

I'm beginning to wonder if this thread is a hoax. While we have seen BHs leave the home before I've never seen one lie down as flat as this. I can't realistically imagine that anyone being continually cheated on would write a letter to the wayward offering them full control and offering to pay for whatever she wanted to do!

We say move home and the response is 'I'll ask what the cheater thinks?'

Doesnt seem right.
FarmerJ, I really suggest taking the bull by the horns now. Not only will it prevent disaster NOW, it will help prevent disaster in the future.

It appears, between what happened with your ex-wife and what is transpiring now, is that you seem to be the kind of man who is a complete pushover. That attracts people who love to step on you and rub your face in dirt. You will always attract a bully when you are always submissive.

Please, for your own sake, start learning to stand up for yourself. Laying over and playing dead does nothing but hurt you. Why do you do it? Is it because you are scared of confrontation? Is it because you want the path of least resistance in the hopes that people will like you?

I don't understand why you apologize to people who do such horrible things to you. Your letter sounds like it was written by a battered woman? Like an apology for her hurting you?

No, this is all real, unfortunately. It has been a nightmare.



Yes I am a pushover. I have an appointment with a counselor today.

I feel am this way, b/c I want to have someone in my life no matter what.

I have to say though, I have gone up & down about confrontation.

Sometimes I would get enough love busters from her(wives) or I would resent her enough...enough that I was ready to end it. But I never would bring anything up...never had the 'talk' about ending it with them.

But every time when they have wanted to end it, I felt helpless & alone. I would say that I ready to do anything to help us.


Also in the past I would get enough courage to confront my wife(wives) & I felt as though I paid for it negatively.
Maybe it is the way I confronted or argued, whatever. They would get mad at me...and I felt that they resented me for it, and that they held it in for later....

So I tried to avoid any confrontation with them. I just rolled with it. I guess I have learned to hold all of it in & take whatever I can get.

I am trying to learn to not be this way. I want love & a family, I really do.
Avoidance and sacrifice is a serious problem for you. Here you go
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3610_state.html
Originally Posted by alis
Avoidance and sacrifice is a serious problem for you. Here you go
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3610_state.html


I guess this is me.

Yes, I got resentful that my needs weren't being met & in return, I had a hard time meeting her needs. We both did this.

I feel sad that I let it get this far.
Originally Posted by TigerWes
Quote
I will cooperate with everything and make it as easy as possible. Will probably be out of the house sometime in Sept.
No she won't, and I've got 50 cyber bucks to bet on it. She'll be there as long as you allow her to be in control.

I'll see your $50 and raise you $50.

It was awfully nice of him to offer to pay for the divorce and to give her the house. She's done so much to deserve it, after all.

Jeff- we all know good and well that she won't vacate the house in September. Why should she leave? It's a place to stay and has a nice mirror.

Oh well, at least y'all don't have kids.


Thanks Northwood....
I already feel enough guilt for being a factor in all this.

I'm trying to feel better about myself...I feel a lot of guilt, that I drove her to do this.

That I caused her to not want to love me anymore.
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I'm trying to feel better about myself...I feel a lot of guilt, that I drove her to do this.

That I caused her to not want to love me anymore.

Buddy, you didn't drive her to do anything. She was already doing it when you met. She was broken when you got her.
I couldn't even count the number of threads I've read where the betrayed hems and haws, goes back and forth and debates the hell out of actually standing up to their WW.

And when they do finally make a move, the inevitable response they give is "WOW! I feel so much better having DONE something. Why didn't I do this a long time ago!"

Buy a voice recorder. Move home. Get an attorney. File for divorce.

Ok, I believe you. Offering to pay her legal bills was a bit 'wow!' But hopefully you're awake and listening now.

Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Buy a voice recorder. Move home. Get an attorney. File for divorce.


You'll feel like a whipped puppy, till you do, J. We've all been there.

She's a bully. Bullies hate calm smiles. Bullies hate people who don't care what they think.

Move home. Wearing a VAR. Tell her: "I'm here to sell the house and I expect you to end your As if you expect to remain under this roof.

She rants. You shrug and go make yourself a drink.

If she does attack you, call the cops. You'll have it recorded and it will be AMAZING if she attacks you. It'll get her out.

Any attempts to continue affairs will be blocked by you. Unplug internet modem, remove mirror, tell her to take her adulterous A calls outside. She needs to get her own place for that stuff

If more than 2 days go by with her acting like a loon, change the locks and put her stuff in storage with a plan B letter. Don't answer her calls.

Be Rhett Butler. Practice not giving a damn what she thinks.
I am going to get going on finalizing all this.

She is willing to go with whatever I want to do.


What do you get out of what she said in her letter?
I'm just trying to decipher what she means. I know it doesnt matter, I'm trying to learn from this.
Jeff --

She is wayward. There is absolutely no point in trying to decifer her intentions. Most of it is manipulation and gaslighting. She's still trying to "spin" the story (I would NEVER have really MET him...I'm not "THAT" kind of girl! -- which is all BS)

And she wants to be FRIENDS with you. Ha. I try to choose my friends more carefully -- I prefer those who have the same values that I do. She doesn't fit the bill. Unless you like your friends to lie to you and stab you in the back....

And lastly, I disagree about the house. Is it your intention to live there without her? If not, just stay out and get it sold.
Get her out as well.

I would tell you to go home if you were trying to bust up the affair and repair your marriage -- but that is not the case here. Its time to cut the ties. Send her an agreement that the house will be put in showing condition with neither of you living there. She needs to be out by 9/1. The house gets listed and you end this.



Originally Posted by FarmerJ
I am going to get going on finalizing all this.

She is willing to go with whatever I want to do.


What do you get out of what she said in her letter?
I'm just trying to decipher what she means. I know it doesnt matter, I'm trying to learn from this.


She's lying to you!

She won't behave well in this D.
Originally Posted by FarmerJ
She is willing to go with whatever I want to do.

Right, just like she was willing to make marital vows, right? Are you trusting her to keep her word?

Quote
What do you get out of what she said in her letter?
I'm just trying to decipher what she means. I know it doesnt matter, I'm trying to learn from this.

Learn this: if a wayward's mouth is moving, they are lying.
So far my WW is ok with us going ahead with our D. She states that she will go along with whatever I need to do.

I'm still hurt by having to go thru this though. I have my ups & downs. Sometimes I am sad about what has happened & other times I am mad about what she has done to our marriage & lives.

I take 50% responsibility for what happened to us. She takes the other 50% plus 100% of the affair.

I know she had emotional needs of holding hands, being romantic, telling her that she is beautiful, etc.
I didn't do that enough or very little for her. I did at the beginning of our courtship.
I apologize for not providing her with what she needed. If I could go back & do all what she wanted from me, I would.

I do miss her. I want to be home.
I wished this had never happened.
Maybe I wish I had never found out so I could thru life without this pain.




Right now we are 3 weeks out from DDay (July 15th).

Last Sunday I snooped & found that she has registered & paid for a full membership to the dating website that she used when I met her. Curvydates.com

She did this 2 weeks after DDay. It hard from me to understand why someone would do this so fast.

She is receiving & sending emails from guys thru this site all day, everyday.

I can see that she is doing this at her work (nurse at major hospital) all thru the day & when she get homs (our home...the home I am not living in right now.)
I guess it must feel good to have so many guys come on to you without really knowing you.

I know that she has a webcam set up on her computer in our house.

She has already been talking to one guy via Yahoo Messenger.

I guess the next step is for her to talk to one on the phone & then to actually meet one someday.

It hurts me to know that someone I have been with for 8 years is doing this so quickly.

The only thing that we have left to work out is the house.
I will write up an agreement to where I live in the house & she pays for part of the mortgage until we can sell it.

Sorry for the rant. This has been the most difficult thing I have ever been thru in my life.
j
Are you going to take anuy of the advice people posted to you already?
yes I am

I am still feeling guilt for all this.

I feel like I caused this..
Maybe if I hadn't exposed, my WW & I could reconcile.

She says what she did was not real & was a fantasy. That the other guy is too different from her. That what she said with him was never meant to be seen by anyone.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
yes I am

I am still feeling guilt for all this.

I feel like I caused this..
Maybe if I hadn't exposed, my WW & I could reconcile.

She says what she did was not real & was a fantasy. That the other guy is too different from her. That what she said with him was never meant to be seen by anyone.
If it wasn't meant to be seen by anyone she shouldn't have done it in the first place. And to send it to some strange guy?? Does she understand that the chance is very good that what she has sent will wind up on some site on the internet - for the whole world to see?? And I'm not talking about just the conversations - she's sending lewd pictures of herself to a stranger. There are people who get relationships started with women specifically for that purpose. If he posts those pictures online they'll be there for eternity. The internet never forgets. And if he attaches her name to them a simple google search of her name will bring them up. This is one more example of the harm that waywards cause to themselves while they're in the fog.

When are you going home? Don't tell me you've changed your mind because she wants a D. That's all the more reason to get back in there and at least make it difficult for her to destroy herself!
I understand...its good for me to hear logic
I have been having a hard time seeing the reality of all this.
I need more of logic 2x4's

I sometimes feel that i drove her to do these things by me not paying enough attention to her.

I feel like I drove her to accepting D because I exposed to her mom, brother & a few friends. She says that I tried to ruin her.


I did see a Christian counselor. She was very saddened by my story. She said that I was the first person she has ever told to walk away from this.

I just miss my wife, the person I fell in love with at the beginning. I feel as though I have failed her & drove her to not want to love me.

I am going home.
I'm going to quote some snips of your last post:

Quote
I sometimes feel
Quote
I feel like I drove her
Quote
I just miss my wife
Quote
I feel as though


You are operating strictly under feelings and appear to be paralyzed. You need to take some action. Exposure was good, but you can't expose and then just sit back and wait for the situation to resolve itself.

This is good:
Quote
I am going home.
But when? Today? Get going, Jeff. IF you want to try to save this. Your call.
So moving back home could save what our relationship?
I think she will be even more mad at me.
I know that her mom is helping her clean house today.

My wife is still on the internet on the dating sites...receiving & sending emails.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
So moving back home could save what our relationship?
I think she will be even more mad at me.
I know that her mom is helping her clean house today.

My wife is still on the internet on the dating sites...receiving & sending emails.
I'm not saying it will or won't save your marriage. And yes, she'll likely be as mad as a cat in a bag when you go home. Because nothing will screw up her fantasy world like her husband walking in the house.

I'm saying you have options: batter her fantasy by going home and making it difficult for her to have unfettered access to trolling for men on the internet. Or stay away and let her roam to her heart's content. I know which one I would pick if I were serious about saving my marriage, but that's me. What do YOU want to do?

I don't know if it's a good idea to go home while her mother is with her unless her mother supports your efforts. She'll be inclined to side with her daughter and the confrontation might not be to your advantage. Go home as soon as she leaves.

Her daughter probably wouldn't need her help with the house cleaning if she spent less time exposing her body parts on the internet. Just saying.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
So moving back home could save what our relationship?
I think she will be even more mad at me.
I know that her mom is helping her clean house today.

My wife is still on the internet on the dating sites...receiving & sending emails.

This is how it looks to me.......you are worried of her being mad at you while she is busy making video porn of herself Jilling Off & going on dating websites? Come on Jeff.....GET BACK HOME.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
So moving back home could save what our relationship?
I think she will be even more mad at me.
I know that her mom is helping her clean house today.

My wife is still on the internet on the dating sites...receiving & sending emails.
I'm not saying it will or won't save your marriage. And yes, she'll likely be as mad as a cat in a bag when you go home. Because nothing will screw up her fantasy world like her husband walking in the house.

I'm saying you have options: batter her fantasy by going home and making it difficult for her to have unfettered access to trolling for men on the internet. Or stay away and let her roam to her heart's content. I know which one I would pick if I were serious about saving my marriage, but that's me. What do YOU want to do?

I don't know if it's a good idea to go home while her mother is with her unless her mother supports your efforts. She'll be inclined to side with her daughter and the confrontation might not be to your advantage. Go home as soon as she leaves.

Her daughter probably wouldn't need her help with the house cleaning if she spent less time exposing her body parts on the internet. Just saying.

Yeah, that hits home...
Her mom is not my friend in this. She supports her daughter's efforts since my WW has "been unhappy" for quite some time. She is ok with my WW meeting new men.

Yeah....she did send photos to this guy.
I tend to also believe that she sending video calls to him as well....so that they could masturbate together.
She refers to setting an alarm at 2 am so that she could wake up,talk to him via chat or phone, or send video calls. She woke up at 2 am so as to make sure I was asleep. It hurts to hear her calculating this.
Sorry, bud, but it seems that you're pining away at a memory of a wife that never existed in the first place.

You got one hell of a pair of rose-colored glasses. That'll pass. From what you're writing, you'll be so much better off once you remove her (and her mother, it seems) from your life.

Jeff moiving home MAY save your relationship. She MAY see what she's been doing.

But even if she does not, it is NOT OK for her to use your marital home as her porn palace.

Move home, give her a chance to repent and kick her out if she does not.

Its time to stop feeling guilty my friend. My husband cheated on me and I never did anything like this. Women do have brains to make their own decisions with.

Tough love is the best thing you can do for her. The rest is up to her.

If not, she'll lie to you about an amicable divorce and then scheme to stay on the gravy train of this house while cheating on you for as long as possible.

If you move home BOTH options of either marital recovery or personal recovery with a D remain open.

But if you allow the porn palace to continue unchecked then both options will close for you.

How can you heal or be happy with this going on? Or get your house sold, even? So move home and stop it.

Logic.
Today I sent an email to my wife to basically ask that we reconcile.
I know, I was desperate. Spare the 2x4's.

I promised her that I would meet her emotional needs, that I failed in giving her what she wanted, etc.
I told her that I really wanted to be with her & love her.

She wrote me back (below) & said that we still needed to be separated for a couple of months so she could figure out things. She is a nurse & said that she may take a traveling nurse job for a few months.

After she replied to my email, I thought I would snoop on what she has been saying to the guys she has met online.

She has told one guy that she had been unhappy for last 5 years of our 7 year marriage. That has wanted a divorce for the past 5 years.

That I made her feel unattractive & fat.

And that is why she is on these BBW dating websites...to have men tell her that she is attractive & beautiful.


Background:
When we first met, she was a bigger sized girl. Size 20 or so. She was going to the gym at the time & had bought the Nutrisystem plan. She also mentioned to me that she had lost weight before & that she could do it again. I got the impression from her that she had ever desire to lose some weight. And yes, I didnt really like the fact she was a bigger sized woman, but I knew we could work thru it & get into shape.
While we dated, we didnt really work on losing any weight, due to getting prepared for our wedding. But I was assured we would once we moved into our house.

After we married, about a year or so, she went to a counselor about this weight issue at my request. It eventually turned into a several month sessions in which we both went to the counselor. It involved issues about both of us..... my confidence & shyness, her weight, and other marital issues.
It was during this time that she was involved in inappropriate relationships with two men...it consisted of phone calls, texts etc. I exposed during a counseling session.

About 2 years into our marriage, we started going to a gym & using a personal trainer. It helped but was difficult to keep going for us.
She then decided to get a lap band. Hoping it would be cure all for her. Her mom had it done previously. I supported her all thru that. I really wanted her to succeed. She did lose some but it leveled out over time. Today she is about a size 18 or so.)


It hurts me to see her tell a stranger that I made her feel unattractive & fat.

I admit I would bring it up the fact that we needed to continue getting into shape. But never did I never meant for anything I did to be seen as mean. I would find ice cream & snacks in our freezer & I would question why we had it.
And yes, sometimes I did do things that could be seen as being as teasing......I would pinch her sides.....I guess she could see it as being hurtful. I am sorry for that.

So, I can see why she is looking for men to see her as being sexy & beautiful...
Because I wasn't doing that for her. I just didnt tell her that.
I feel guilty now for all that.

--------------------------
Early today
Her response to my email:


Jeff,

My mom is up for the weekend helping me clear out the pantry to take to a food bank. She was going to help me pack up some stuff too. We need to sell the house...makes sense to do it sooner than later...the housing market is picking back up.

Yes, I am willing to talk with you. I love and care about you too, Jeff. There are many things we need to talk about. We could meet up after you get off work Tuesday and have dinner if you want. I still think being separated for a while is still the best thing for now though. I was thinking of doing a couple travel nurse assignments...nothing too far away...Gainesville, Orlando or Tampa...and putting everything in storage, but if you wanted to just move back in the house until it sells that would be best...we could keep all the furniture here until we have to vacate. I would still pay for the cable and utilities while you stay here. As a travel nurse my rent and utilities are paid for...each assignment is usually only 13 weeks, so its very temporary...its a great way to earn some good money. We can still talk, but I do need a few months if separation to think about things. I'm very much in limbo right now...no solid plans, just ideas...things we can talk about over dinner...what do you think??

Love (WW)


-----------
Later today
Her conversation with guy on dating website
I learn the real truth of how she feels about me & us.

(Wife):Having a good weekend?

(Guy from Dating Site):not bad, what about you?

(Wife):Going well...mom is helping me pack up the house some...separated from my hubby, you know...will be getting divorced sometime soon.

(Guy from Dating Site):sorry to hear, you ok?

(Wife):Yeah...will be. Was my idea to separate....just hate seek.g him hurt. I still love him dearly, just know we aren't right for each other.

(Guy from Dating Site):hopefully things will get better for both of you

(Wife):Thanks...it will. I'm optimistic about our futures...separately.

(Wife):We have been married almost 7 years and I have wanted a divorce for 5 of those years...I have been emotionally checked out for so long. I feel like I've already moved on...too bad it took me this long to say I want something better.

(Wife):I guess you didn't read ny profile...it clearly says I'm separated...

(Guy from Dating Site):sorry to hear that

(Wife):Ah, ok...honestly not a touchy subject at this point....like I said...emotionally checked out long ago...

(Guy from Dating Site):have you been dating?

(Wife):No...we've just recently separated. He used to make me feel fat and unattractive, so once we officially separated I started looking for someone who will think I am super attractive...I signed on to the site you found me on a week ago....haven't been on any dates...just looking right now.

(Guy from Dating Site):I think your super sexy

(Wife):Thank you. I have been told I'm gorgeous by 50%, and that I would be gorgeous if I was thinner by 50%....I am overweight more often than not, so I'm tired of feeling like a failure and that I'm not attractive to my partner...I'm never obese, just not thin...just the way I am.

(Guy from Dating Site):you'll have to send me some pics, let me judge sometime

(Wife):Well, that's exactly why I found this site...I need to feel secure an sexy at all times.


Well, I swore to myself I was going to stop posting for a while, but I've got to ask:

Have you moved back in yet? Today is Saturday, and you said you were moving back today. If not, then why not?

I actually read that drivel from your WW, and it reeks of nothing more than entitlement and selfishness. What kind of real wife material actually checks out of a marriage only two years into it? (her words, not mine)

Think about it.

Man up dude! Get back in the house, break the mirror (seriously), disable the computer, and take your life back. Screw that her mother is there. I disagree on this point with some of the others. Her mother is probably looking at you through the same eyes as her daughter, and that's pretty much a wimp. Just make sure you have that VAR on you at all times.

Do you really want her controlling your life? Because right now, she is! How does that feel? Hell, you're even allowing her mother control your actions. How does THAT feel??

Call the hand at the card table, or fold yours.

Right now, you're folding like the proverbial cheap lawn chair.
I guess I was having some guilt for her feeling sad about being unattractive & fat.
Yeah, it has been an issue in our relationship before we even got married.

I have read some of Harley's book..Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders.
I think my WW is a Freeloader of a sort.
She mentions that she wants others to accept her the way she is & that she shouldnt have to change.
I've been trying my best to be a Buyer...I'd do anything to make things right & would do any changes to make our lives better.


I am moving back Friday.
I am talking to a lawyer to draft up an agreement this week.
I want my WW to sign it before I move in.
Jeff, I understand that you are in a lot of pain (BTDT) but why are you so adamant about not going home now? Please, don't give me lawyer agreement and Mommy bullcrap, as that's nothing more than an excuse to not do what you are legally entitled to do.

You say you want to try and save this. How in God's name are you ever going to find the strength to recover anything if you can't even muster the strength to put an to this crap that is tearing it apart to begin with? You think busting this up is tough? Try attempting marital recovery with someone who has no real desire to. (and she doesn't, this is a way of life for her)

Honestly, I have no idea why you're even trying at this point, but if this is an effort you are willing to attempt, then you need to go all out. This wimpy approach that you are exhibiting right now is not attractive at all to your WW. Women like men of strength, and right you're showing a weakness that is not very attractive to most women. In fact, it's quite repulsive and a major turn off for them.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I want my WW to sign it before I move in.


I've said this before but I'm out. You aren't going to get anywhere with this weak kneed attitude where you need to get permission from your abuser to be assertive.

This attutude of yours will cause you so much pain that you'll hit rock botto. Hopefully when you do you'll get back in that house before its too late.

Let us know when you've done that.

I think you're only here to blog about your feelings of guilt, when the only thing to feel guilty about is never standing up for yourself.
You don't need an attorney to draft a document that will enable you to move back into your house! Why are you not getting this??? banghead

Jeff, what your WW is doing is called "buying time" when she tells you that you need to remain separated for 'a few weeks'. You know what will happen when those 'few weeks' are up? She'll weasel a few MORE weeks out of you. And on and on. She knows that her fantasy party will be interrupted if you go home. Which is why you need to GO HOME!

Quote
I guess I was having some guilt for her feeling sad about being unattractive & fat.
Yeah, it has been an issue in our relationship before we even got married.
You made your need for Physical Attractiveness known to her. What has she done to address that? A lap band is a band aid - she needs to eat less and exercise more.

I know how I feel when I pick up a few extra pounds. I don't like the feeling. I feel fat and unattractive. But I don't go trolling for men on the internet to tell me I'm beautiful! I eat less and walk more!That makes me feel better - because I am in charge of my feelings! Your wife is in charge of HER feelings as well.

Your WW is the classic wayward, thinking in classic wayward fashion. She's telling men these things on the internet for a reason. She wants to weed out the men who want thin women and make sure she's finding the ones who like heavy women. And there are plenty of them out there.

Think about it: if she really wanted to make an effort to lose the weight, she would be making the effort. Instead, she is looking for men who like heavy women and flagging them that YOU made her feel bad because SHE isn't motivated to lose weight. She's giving them a veiled warning that they need to accept her weight issues.
Alright, I am moving back home this week.
I have to go out of town for most of this week (a family member is having a medical procedure). But I will be back on Thursday.
I will move back in on Friday.


As far I know from snooping, she is not in contact with this guy she has been video calling, calling, etc.
All that I have found is that she is on the dating website, accepting & sending emails / chats.


--------

After figuring out her real intentions, I am mad.
Really mad.
I can see her & her stupid mom laughing at me.
All this time, she has been at my house having time to figure out what is best for her....
All the while, I have been staying in a hotel.

I will move in & bring a family member with me. She can either stay or leave, her choice. I tend to think though, she will leave when she sees that is not just me that is moving in.


Sorry for having a pity party for myself.
I admit, if I were reading this as an outsider, I would think I was a doormat too.


She is blame shifting me (?) saying that I made her feel fat & unattractive.
I never did anything other than tease her by pinching her sides. Gosh, I could count on one hand how many times I did that.
Anyway, its no justification for hunting out guys on the internet so that she can feel good about herself.

I believe she is has a freeloader/renter way of looking at life & relationships. Accept & love me as a I...I should not have to change for my spouse or partner.

------
If she agrees to pay this month's mortgage, should I not move back in. (I am asking this from a concerned family member that suggested this.)
Quote
If she agrees to pay this month's mortgage, should I not move back in. (I am asking this from a concerned family member that suggested this.)
GO BACK HOME. I don't care who's paying what on YOUR HOUSE.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
If she agrees to pay this month's mortgage, should I not move back in. (I am asking this from a concerned family member that suggested this.)

It's not relevant and you know it. If my neighbor paid my mortgage for next month, do you think I should move out? Same difference.


Quote
Anyway, its no justification for hunting out guys on the internet so that she can feel good about herself.
THIS! Concentrate on THIS!

Quote
After figuring out her real intentions, I am mad.

Dare I hope that I am seeing a little spark of righteous indignation here? clap

I will grudgingly agree that you probably shouldn't move home today and then leave for the week. That may lessen the bang of your statement. Get in there as soon as you get back, and don't leave! Try to work your schedule so that you are home when she is home. If she's going to go spread-eagle for internet voyeurs she's going to have to do it while you're knocking on the bedroom door and asking her what she would like for dinner. Or she's going to have to go to her mommy's house and ask to use the spare bedroom for a bit.
When I move back, she will more than likely go stay with a work friend.

Her family lives over 2 hours away, so I know she won't be going there any time soon.



To be honest, I don't want me moving back in to affect any potential deal she & I can make about the house.

Right now, she says that she is looking for a travel nurse job that might take to Orlando, Tampa, etc. That she can pay for the utilities & the cable tv.
I know that travel nurses get their housing for almost for free or they get some sort of payment for one.

I'm just trying to avoid going to court & having to pay an attorney to handle all this.
I don't think though that if she does want to go to court, all this stuff she has been doing will come out even more.
Quote
To be honest, I don't want me moving back in to affect any potential deal she & I can make about the house.
I can't imagine what that would be. "Your Honor, I believe I should have the house because Jeff :::sniff sniff::: moved back in!!" Um, no.
Quote
When I move back, she will more than likely go stay with a work friend.
That's her call.
Quote
I'm just trying to avoid going to court & having to pay an attorney to handle all this.
The only thing I can think of that requires court dates and attorneys in this case would be a divorce petition. That's what you're trying to avoid, right? Then, GO HOME.
Jeff - what your last email to her, her response and her chat log later in the day show is that she is currently completely in control of the situation, and what is going to happen is in her time, at her choosing and to her advantage.

Can you see how your approach so far has played into her hands?
I think the frustration I have, and what I sense in others, is that you need to take action to regain control. Even if it appears out of character and causes her to get very angry, it gives you some control in the situation.

Move back in. Reclaim your home. It is the marital home, and you are married. Tolerate nothing in the house that is counter to the marriage. ACTION is what is really needed right now not prevarication.

In terms of where she will go, she is a nurse. Nurses can get work anywhere. Hey I notice that the Falkland Islands are short of nurses right now. She wants to travel? How about a small island in the South Atlantic? Or anywhere else in the world for that matter.




Originally Posted by sortingit
Jeff - what your last email to her, her response and her chat log later in the day show is that she is currently completely in control of the situation, and what is going to happen is in her time, at her choosing and to her advantage.

Can you see how your approach so far has played into her hands?
I think the frustration I have, and what I sense in others, is that you need to take action to regain control. Even if it appears out of character and causes her to get very angry, it gives you some control in the situation.

Move back in. Reclaim your home. It is the marital home, and you are married. Tolerate nothing in the house that is counter to the marriage. ACTION is what is really needed right now not prevarication.

In terms of where she will go, she is a nurse. Nurses can get work anywhere.

You are absolutely right. I have given her everything.
I guess my fear was that if I got her mad, that she drag this out into a contested divorce.
But I don't think she would be wise to do this.
All that has happened would be brought to light again & made public, and she wouldn't want that.


I am done with helping her.
She feels that she can get a job somewhere in Florida & then send me money for utilities & cable tv....

No.....she is going to help pay for the mortgage.
My lawyer told me that we'd have to split the cost as if we were both paying for two places to live. Since the house mortgage is going to be higher than any apartment rent, she will have to pay me.
This is what i am trying to get her to agree to before i make her mad.
Quote
My lawyer told me that we'd have to split the cost as if we were both paying for two places to live. Since the house mortgage is going to be higher than any apartment rent, she will have to pay me.
This is what i am trying to get her to agree to before i make her mad.
You're already preparing for living in two places. This is conceding defeat before the first shot has been fired. Stop doing this. Prepare to live under one roof. Your lawyer is speculating at this point.

Jeff, for some strange reason we get a lot of betrayed husbands who leave their marital home the second their wayward looks cross-ways at them. Then they compound their error by giving their wives money. They meekly wait for their WW to 'allow' them to see their children (which is typically whenever the wife wants a sleepover with her affair partner). They bow, scrape and kowtow to their wayward in the misguided notion that doing so will bring their wayward back to them. They are scared to death of their wayward's wrath.

You know what they get for relying on their fear to guide them? Dumped on.

You have fallen into this trap. Get out of it!
I am moving back in to my house this Friday!

Should I tell her that I am coming?

My family feels that I should at least give her some time to let her know. She works 12 hour days on Wed & Thursday.
Today (tues) is her off day from work.

She is still active on the dating websites. Its hurtful to read her words about what she wants....and what she doesnt want (which is basically me).

----------------
From her profile:

More About Me...
First off...yes, I am separated, but will be single soon....have been emotionally single for a long time though.

I'm a critical care/ICU nurse...have been for about 14 yrs. I would really love to finally do some travel nursing...something I should have done in my 20's, but maybe now is the right time??

I am pretty laid back, but when something is important I'm ontop of things and don't like to slack off and I like someone who is like minded. People think I'm funny....I have to be with someone who can take sarcastic humor and not think I'm putting them down...you must have a strong confidence and be able to laugh at yourself....that's such a good quality! I am so far away from mean spirited its not even funny, so if I ever say something you consider out of line, I promise you I will feel terrible about it.

I am really looking to meet someone who can bring fun, excitement, and spontaneity to my life. I want someone to bring out the best in me and vice versa. It's important to me to find someone who is fairly comfortable in most settings....who won't shy away and clam up just because we are out of his comfort zone. It's healthy to venture outside your comfort zone every now and then. :-)

----------------

Yes I do get uncomfortable in certain settings. But we could have talked about this & worked things out. And yes, there are many issues she has as well that she needs to work on too.
One that I can think of...is boundaries.


But I am tired of all this.
I need someone to keep telling me that I don't deserve this.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I am moving back in to my house this Friday!

Should I tell her that I am coming?

NO! Don't tell her and stop acting like you are doing something wrong by moving into your own house!!!!!



Originally Posted by Jeff_R
My family feels that I should at least give her some time to let her know.

By that same screwed up rationale, she should have at least given you some notice that she was going to screw around on you.

Quit being nice to this, um, person that you are married to. She sure as hell won't return the favor or be so considerate of you, will she now?

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
But I am tired of all this.
I need someone to keep telling me that I don't deserve this.

Ok, she doesn't deserve you. Got that? Tattoo this on your forehead if you have to: "WW does not deserve having me in her life."
Why the need to forewarn her?

It is your house.

I say no forewarning......just a "honey i'm home" should suffice.
Someone mentioned that she could call the sheriffs dept & have me escorted out of my house.


What do you think of what she wrote in her profile?
She has no idea that I know about this.

This is the same dating site that I think I met her on.
I think she even has the same handle that she used 8 years ago.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Someone mentioned that she could call the sheriffs dept & have me escorted out of my house.

That's why you take a voice recorder with you and, preferably, a witness or two or three. The police are only going to tell the most unstable or violent-looking person to leave. Your job is to be the stable and calm one while she goes nuts.

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
What do you think of what she wrote in her profile?
She has no idea that I know about this.


Honestly, my eyes kind of glazed over. She's wayward, they all say the same crap and it'd do you well to stop trying to find sanity where none exists. I do think that future boyfriends will get tired of hearing about you as that seems to be all that she talks (complains) about.


Originally Posted by Jeff_R
This is the same dating site that I think I met her on.
I think she even has the same handle that she used 8 years ago.

Think about that for a minute. What really changed with her in the eight years? Not much, I'd say.

If you had kids, I'd be more concerned for you. As-is, I think she's doing you a favor by revealing how loose she is before you had kids.
I am definitely moving back home this Friday!

Over the past weekend, I sent her an email wishing to reconcile & talk about all this...she responded (see above) that she wants to be separated, go on travel nurse jobs, etc....and she agreed to talk to me.

She said that we could talk over dinner (?) I agreed.
We were supposed to meet last night, but I came to my senses. I could not see her & re-live this all over again. All she would have told me is that we are not meant to be together, that she has been unhappy, etc, etc.

I told her that something came up at work & that on top of all that, I got a flat tire (none of this was true btw).
She quickly responded, that it was no problem & that we could talk this weekend, maybe.
No mention about the flat tire or my well being.

Ok, so I now know for sure that she does not care about me, where I am staying the past 3 weeks, nor what I have been doing to cope,....nothing. Not a care in the world.


Here is my plan.
I will move back home...but I am bringing my family with me.
She might leave to visit her family down in Gainesville for the weekend...or go stay with a friend.

Besides the VAR, is there anything else I should be aware of?
My family being there is going to make her mad.

I plan on writing up the agreement & having it ready for her to agree to. Basically, on how we are to take equal responsibility for the mortgage. She will have to pay half of all the repairs, real estate fees, etc.

I will have a lawyer write it into a binding agreement. She will have to pay for half of this as well.

I think this is in for a rude awakening about how this is going to go down. She thought that i could pay for the entire mortgage each month & that she could pay for the power & cable bill.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I will move back home...but I am bringing my family with me.
She might leave to visit her family down in Gainesville for the weekend...or go stay with a friend.

Besides the VAR, is there anything else I should be aware of?
My family being there is going to make her mad.

I plan on writing up the agreement & having it ready for her to agree to. Basically, on how we are to take equal responsibility for the mortgage. She will have to pay half of all the repairs, real estate fees, etc.

I will have a lawyer write it into a binding agreement. She will have to pay for half of this as well.

I think this is in for a rude awakening about how this is going to go down. She thought that i could pay for the entire mortgage each month & that she could pay for the power & cable bill.

Sounds good. Make it happen.

Having an attorney go over the agreement is very important because waywards love loopholes.
Once you get home, make a point for you and your folks to go through the house cleaning out all of the nastiness. Put the mattress by the curb, toss the mirror, bedsheets and vibrator in the garbage can.

There's no way you can sell a house that, surely, reeks like a bordello and I'd have no qualms about doing all of this while your WW watches. Ideally, she'll leave the house when she sees that you've brought company. They can stay for a day or two, I hope.

You could always stop by a local hospital and ask if they have any of those red biohazard bags that you could use.
Well, she is going full steam ahead on her dating website.

I just don't understand why she did this to begin with.
Why 2 weeks after d-day?

I guess she needs the attention...or maybe this is something that she has always done to cope. I have no idea.

Why not talk to other friends that are women...why look for another man? I mean she is flirty with this guys that wink & send smiles to her.

She is on curvydates.com
(Florida) (cute...gator...nurse)
She has paid for a membership and I think that is b/c her profile would show up at the beginning of any search.

Dude, first it was, "I'm moving home Saturday," then it was, "I'm moving home Saturday #2," now it's, ""I'm moving home Friday."

You'll understand if there is a modicum of doubt here about the relocation. Get home. Do not let anything interfere. Just move home.

Colleagues, what will we have when this poster actually starts cleaning up the crusty evidence of WW's behavior? "JR, ewwwwwww-ing"

Dude, get home.
I emailed my WW yesterday this:


" Just to let you know, I will be at the house this Saturday night at 8pm. A few people will be there as well. (Cousin's husband) dad is in town from the Philippines.
We are going to cook Filipino & Thai food. My family will be staying over.
j"

Her response:

"So, people are going to be staying the night at our house Saturday night? If so, you can have the house that night. I will find somewhere else to stay. When do you want to get together to talk?"

I'm not saying anything else to her until after I get into the house. I'll just respond, "I'm here to stay".

No talking necessary. I know what she is going to say...blameshifting and excuses. "we just don't mesh together..we aren't meant to be together, etc, etc."
Well, this is a non-confrontational way of getting back into YOUR HOUSE. You'll be in, so that's good - make sure you take all of your things when you go, and DO NOT PLAN TO LEAVE.

Do not respond to her text. Just get back into your house!!
Jeff, why do continue to do things before consulting here first? Yeah, you want to get back in as mb said, but why do you continue to lay out your plans to the enemy before you even fight this battle? Not good. You WANT to make it as uncomfortable as you can in this sitch. You WANT to shock the living crap out of her. I can't for the life of me figure out why you are going out of your way to make this as easy as possible for her. This one is completely on her and YOU are making it so easy for her to avoid the consequences of her actions? Why? Please explain.

Don't tell her ANYTHING you're going to do!

Just do!
No, Viper, I'm thinking this is a really good move on Jeff's part. Think about it: WW has been running the show and has had Jeff at her beck and call. He has shown no real ownership of his marriage or home (sorry, Jeff, but you must admit that's true). She's been driving the bus.

Now Jeff is stopping that. I suspect his WW is suddenly alerted - Jeff is changing the game. Like a good addict, she's going to try to get back control. She can't do that if Jeff stays home. Now JEFF will be driving the bus.

I like it. IF you follow through and go home, Jeff. That's critical.
************** DISCLAIMER ****************
*** I am not trained in psychological ***
*** analysis or diagnosis. I'm merely ***
*** trying to make the pieces fit!!!! ***
**********************************************

JR, were you raised in a home environment without a strong, continuous male figure?
It seems you have overdeveloped respect for, consideration of, and need for approval
from, the opinions and desires of females in your life.
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
************** DISCLAIMER ****************
*** I am not trained in psychological ***
*** analysis or diagnosis. I'm merely ***
*** trying to make the pieces fit!!!! ***
**********************************************

JR, were you raised in a home environment without a strong, continuous male figure?
It seems you have overdeveloped respect for, consideration of, and need for approval
from, the opinions and desires of females in your life.
If that's the case: Jeff, I am a female in your life. GO HOME!
Well, for the first time, I disagree with you (although I see where you are coming from.)

WW has been running the show and has been driving the bus. But following the MB exposure methods, I believe he should've gone nuclear with getting back in the house, just as we endorse going nuclear with exposure. If there were kids involved, then no. But there aren't any kids, just her.

Meh, either way can work to get back in, I just believe as much as she has put him through right in front of his face deserves a good dose of residual consequence for her actions and will face none now that his intentions are known.

Just my way of thinking.
It'll sink in with her and she'll regroup. Give her a few hours.

She must have already had plans to be out on Saturday given her gracious offer to let him have the house that night. "That" night doesn't include Sunday, of course.
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
It'll sink in with her and she'll regroup. Give her a few hours.

She must have already had plans to be out on Saturday given her gracious offer to let him have the house that night. "That" night doesn't include Sunday, of course.
She just got a curveball thrown to her. She's definitely going to regroup - watch for it, Jeff. She may tell you that she's got something going on at the house that she 'just remembered'. Don't back down. Let her know that she is welcome to have her petit-point club members over at the same time - all are welcome.
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
It'll sink in with her and she'll regroup. Give her a few hours.
THAT'S my problem with this approach. She now has time to think about what to do to mitigate the consequences and ownership of her betrayal. With this approach, she doesn't have to face the music in front of family. No consequences. Easy way out.

I suspect that this has been a way of life for her. Until she is forced to face the consequences of her actions, how the hell can she ever grow the hell up?

I may be wrong, but I believe Jeff is doing her (and himself) no favors with this approach.

Of course, what's done is done.
Quote
THAT'S my problem with this approach.
You missed my last post, Viper. I suspect this is going to be HUGE, and will benefit Jeff.

She is going to be one pissed-off wayward. grin Good for Jeff!
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
THAT'S my problem with this approach.
You missed my last post, Viper. I suspect this is going to be HUGE, and will benefit Jeff.

She is going to be one pissed-off wayward. grin Good for Jeff!
I think we were typing at the same time. Oh yeah, it can be big, but it could've been bigger, IMO.

I just hope he actually does it this time. Been to this dance before.
Quote
I just hope he actually does it this time. Been to this dance before.
I'm right there with you. Get on it, Jeff.
Thanks for all the supportive responses.

Family & others who know me, asked that I let her know that I was coming home. I kept getting people telling me that I could get arrested, etc.
But I felt like many here, that I don't owe my WW anything...b/c its my house.

Anyway, I did a combination of both approaches.

I'll get into the house without confrontation & she will stay somewhere else for the night.

But Sunday night, she doesn't know that I'll be staying for good.
She'll probably text me & see if we are gone.
I'll tell her no..that we are staying.

She will have to work the next day (monday) early, so she'll need fresh clothes, etc.

She will be upset & want to get into the house.
We plan on being in the living room when she arrives at the house.


Ok, so you'll have Saturday to reclaim your space.

Get a new mattress and toss the old one on the street. I'm serious, do you really want to sleep on that thing? Lord knows how many other people have been on it.

Second, you sleep in the master bedroom on your new mattress. She can sleep on the couch, in the front yard, in the tub for all you care.

Move all of your clothes and stuff BACK into the master closet.

Don't for a second act like you're doing anything wrong by being in your home. Don't for a second apologize for being there. I swear if you tell us that you're in the guest room we'll all drive up and smack some sense into you! smile


Don't forget that her next step is going to be to get you out of the house. Have that voice recorder on you recording every single conversation that you have with her.

What you don't want is her to call the police on some trumped up domestic violence thing.
oh yeah, I am going to be there tomorrow night.
As I stated before, I told her that I am having a cooking party with some family at the house at 8pm.


My email to her:

"Just to let you know, I will be at the house this Saturday night at 8pm. A few people will be there as well. (Cousin's husband)'s dad is in town from Philippines.
We are going to cook Filipino & Thai food. My family will be staying over.
j


Her response:

"So, people are going to be staying the night at our house Saturday night?
If so, you can have the house that night. I will find somewhere else to stay.
When do you want to get together to talk?"


She is 'allowing' me to have the house that night.
What the nerve. I have been her doormat for 4 weeks while living in a hotel. She has never asked where I am living or how I am doing.

She is more concerned about the guys she meets on curvydates than anything else.

I have a VAR ready to go for Sunday when she thinks she will have the house back.

BUT I will be there & I will have family with me as well.
My family will be in the house the whole week while I am at work as well...and next weekend....and the week after.
LOL
Well Jeff, LOL, had you not failed to mention all this last night you wouldn't have heard from me one bit! Ima liking this!
Well, to tell the truth...all your words made it thru to me.

I've realized that I don't deserve what happened.
That I don't have to be her doormat.

THAT I SHOULD NOT BE BLAMING MYSELF!

I have a fear of losing the 'security' of having someone be with me. That they are rejecting me because of who I am inside.

BUT this is not true. I know that I am a softy inside & I'm very nice to people.

Gosh, I am so nice, that I let my cheating lying whore wife, stay in our house so that she could 'think' about things.

No more. I am done with this. I deserve better.

------
Question:
I did ask her in a previous email that we talk.
What is the suggestion for this?
Should I even try to talk to her...what form (face to face, or emails)?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Well, to tell the truth...all your words made it thru to me.

I've realized that I don't deserve what happened.
That I don't have to be her doormat.

THAT I SHOULD NOT BE BLAMING MYSELF!

I have a fear of losing the 'security' of having someone be with me. That they are rejecting me because of who I am inside.

BUT this is not true. I know that I am a softy inside & I'm very nice to people.

Gosh, I am so nice, that I let my cheating lying whore wife, stay in our house so that she could 'think' about things.

No more. I am done with this. I deserve better.

------
Question:
I did ask her in a previous email that we talk.
What is the suggestion for this?
Should I even try to talk to her...what form (face to face, or emails)?
Well, the clang is clearly audible now. Lovin' it! The turn around in your demeanor is palpable...lovin' that as well.

Are far as your question is concerned, are you still willing to reconcile, or are you done? You definitely need to have a face to face either way, but how to handle it depends on what your motives are right now.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Thanks for all the supportive responses.

Family & others who know me, asked that I let her know that I was coming home. I kept getting people telling me that I could get arrested, etc.
But I felt like many here, that I don't owe my WW anything...b/c its my house.

Anyway, I did a combination of both approaches.

I'll get into the house without confrontation & she will stay somewhere else for the night.

But Sunday night, she doesn't know that I'll be staying for good.
She'll probably text me & see if we are gone.
I'll tell her no..that we are staying.

She will have to work the next day (monday) early, so she'll need fresh clothes, etc.

She will be upset & want to get into the house.
We plan on being in the living room when she arrives at the house.
I think this is a dandy plan. Jeff, make sure you've got a VAR with you when she shows up. Just to be safe. And no, for crying out loud, you're not going to be arrested for living in your own house! crazy
Quote
Get a new mattress and toss the old one on the street.
If memory serves, one of our posters took the family couch out to the backyard and burned it. (WW and OM had sex on it.)

I think that would be a fitting end to your mattress. Check with your local city codes, though, so you don't get fined for burning within city limits smile
Quote
I've realized that I don't deserve what happened.
That I don't have to be her doormat.

THAT I SHOULD NOT BE BLAMING MYSELF!
Thank God! You are finally figuring it out!

Good for you. Now - do what you need to do, Jeff! Follow the Plan!
Quote
I have a fear of losing the 'security' of having someone be with me. That they are rejecting me because of who I am inside.
You need to consider, instead, that you are a worthy man who should be with a woman who is worthy of him. You have a remarkable habit of wanting to settle. Stop this! You deserve more! There is no 'security' in being with a person who is using you.
Quote
Gosh, I am so nice, that I let my cheating lying whore wife, stay in our house so that she could 'think' about things.
Yes, but you're about to change all that, because it's all different with you now. Now you KNOW. Now you are AWARE. You will NOT BE PLAYED.
Quote
No more. I am done with this. I deserve better.
Yes, sir, you do. I don't know if that will be your WW who is busted and wants to recover the marriage, or if it will be a new woman in the future. Either way, you cannot continue to live like you're living now.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
Get a new mattress and toss the old one on the street.
If memory serves, one of our posters took the family couch out to the backyard and burned it. (WW and OM had sex on it.)

I think that would be a fitting end to your mattress. Check with your local city codes, though, so you don't get fined for burning within city limits smile
LOL, that was mirror mirror. He took it to his parents farm to do it. If I had known this beforehand, I would've introduced him to the healing power of tannerite. Completely legal too. Hey Jeff, if you (or someone you know) have a high powered rifle to ignite this, you could destroy the mattress and mirror with one pound of this stuff. I've done it before, and it's real good, feel good stuff.

No reconcile...I'm done.

This has happened before....and if we did reconcile, I'd put money down that she would either do it again OR she would give us a 'trial' period and eventually file for divorce any way in a couple of months.

I'll never be able to live up to her standards of what a husband is supposed to do. I know this.

I have to ask myself....why oh why would I want to reconcile with someone who is obviously a serial cheater, has boundary issues, liar & puts their profile on a dating website 2 weeks after DDay.

I mean the men she is going after..she has never met them. They have all been guys she met online (except one that she knew from college).
They aren't exactly the classic Other Man...one that works with her or knows her. But considering what has happened, I wouldn't out that past her.

When we are done with our final D papers, I will tell her that I know she had her profile on the dating site. I'll even print her profile out to show her.

I thought about going nuclear on her....going to her work place & having a final blow out on her. But I think that would not be a good idea. I don't want to be seen as a crazy guy or get arrested.
Quote
When we are done with our final D papers, I will tell her that I know she had her profile on the dating site. I'll even print her profile out to show her.
You're speculating. That's not important right now.

Do you want to divorce? Is that your plan? If so, I would suggest you get an attorney NOW.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
No reconcile...I'm done.

This has happened before....and if we did reconcile, I'd put money down that she would either do it again OR she would give us a 'trial' period and eventually file for divorce any way in a couple of months.

I'll never be able to live up to her standards of what a husband is supposed to do. I know this.

I have to ask myself....why oh why would I want to reconcile with someone who is obviously a serial cheater, has boundary issues, liar & puts their profile on a dating website 2 weeks after DDay.

I mean the men she is going after..she has never met them. They have all been guys she met online (except one that she knew from college).
They aren't exactly the classic Other Man...one that works with her or knows her. But considering what has happened, I wouldn't out that past her.

When we are done with our final D papers, I will tell her that I know she had her profile on the dating site. I'll even print her profile out to show her.

I thought about going nuclear on her....going to her work place & having a final blow out on her. But I think that would not be a good idea. I don't want to be seen as a crazy guy or get arrested.
Understood, and completely agree. You deserve better than this, and she's out there. If I were you I would print that profile out right now for future evidence. Gather all you can right now, because after tomorrow, you may not get too many chances.

Definitely wouldn't go to the workplace. This isn't a workplace affair, so I wouldn't even go there.
Quote
Definitely wouldn't go to the workplace. This isn't a workplace affair, so I wouldn't even go there.
Agree.
I do have an attorney ready to go. She suggested we settle on an agreement. She feels that there is no need for full court proceedings. If we had kids, then yeah we would have to go that route.

The attorney is ready to write up our agreement to make it binding. I will give the WW a copy of a fair agreement that I came up with & let her sign it.

Basically in Florida there is whats called a 'simplified dissolution'. Since we do not have children, this is the best course of action to use a simple agreement.

We don't really have any other assets to split except for our house. This is where the agreement will come into play..into how to take care of the mortgage until we can sell it.

I will suggest to her that I live in the house & that she get another place. We will then split the cost of the housing for the both of us.

So far, I have only mentioned, without any detail, to my WW that we should have a simple agreement. We both don't want to go the full lawyer route...no need to. BUT if she wants to contest (which I don't see her doing this at all) then she is in for a BIG fight. I will make sure it costs her some money.

But I see her wanting to get this over with as soon as possible. I mean, she doesn't want to mess up her future dating plans with extensive litigation.




Yeah, the bed she has been sleeping on is her old bed.
It either goes with her or it goes with the trash.

I suspect that after she finds out that I plan on staying at the house, that she'll email me wanting to coordinate a time when she can come by the house to get her stuff.

I'll respond to her by saying, just get all your stuff,..and make sure you get all your vibrators too. lol
Don't suggest to her anything (that's the old Jeff talking). You tell her how it's how it going to be (the new Jeff talking). If she doesn't like it, then she can come back and live with you and your family. I kinda doubt she'll opt for that one.

You're finally starting to take control, so don't relinquish it with suggestions. Keep it by telling her how it's going to be.
Jeff, do you want a divorce, or to reconcile? I'm a little confused on your goal.
Why reconcile?
She is gone...gone several months ago.

I have to go ahead with filing for D.
Why would I want to reconcile?

Things would not get better with her. She is a serial cheater.
I mean, this last time was the worst of all.

She was calling the guy up in the middle of the night & making sure I was asleep...

She was using video call with the guy so they could masturbate with each other....

She reads erotic romance novels & masturbates on our couch. ( Ive seen the vibrators in between the cushions of the couch)

She admitted that she was going to tell me that we were separated & never reveal what she was doing secretly

No reason to reconcile. I tried to do that. She has not given any indication she has wanted to do this since DDay.
I'm tired, worn out, disheartened, etc by all this.
Originally Posted by Viper
LOL, that was mirror mirror. He took it to his parents farm to do it.

Before burning the couch, I believe he beat the ever Godly hell out of the OM--sent him to the hospital with a few broken bones.

Such a happy ending was had by all!
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by Viper
LOL, that was mirror mirror. He took it to his parents farm to do it.

Before burning the couch, I believe he beat the ever Godly hell out of the OM--sent him to the hospital with a few broken bones.

Such a happy ending was had by all!
Well, not by all. OM was doing an underage girl shortly thereafter and will be spending time in a federal pound-you-in-the-[censored] prison! LOL, he's getting ready to redefine OM.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Why reconcile?
She is gone...gone several months ago.

I have to go ahead with filing for D.
Why would I want to reconcile?

Things would not get better with her. She is a serial cheater.
I mean, this last time was the worst of all.

She was calling the guy up in the middle of the night & making sure I was asleep...

She was using video call with the guy so they could masturbate with each other....

She reads erotic romance novels & masturbates on our couch. ( Ive seen the vibrators in between the cushions of the couch)

She admitted that she was going to tell me that we were separated & never reveal what she was doing secretly

No reason to reconcile. I tried to do that. She has not given any indication she has wanted to do this since DDay.
I'm tired, worn out, disheartened, etc by all this.

It is always wonderful to see a guy go from doormat to a strong MAN. Since I was a doormat for many years I know what a difference it is and it feels good.

It looks like you have a great plan to get back in your home. Good for you.

Please though make sure you do get a VAR and carry it with you at all times. I have personally seen with a brother and a friend where their now XW tried to manufacture charges and get them arrested.

My brother had a little girl and he was accused of molesting his daughter. You don't have a children but it will be that you hit her or tried to rape her. The VAR saved my brother so please make sure you have one and always have it.

Best of luck to you. It sucks that your wife would throw away a great guy. I always here from TV and everywhere else that and I quote "A good man is hard to find." And yet when women have a great guy they will throw him away in a heartbeat. Kind of sad when you think about it.
Best of luck to you. It sucks that your wife would throw away a great guy. I always here from TV and everywhere else that and I quote "A good man is hard to find." And yet when women have a great guy they will throw him away in a heartbeat. Kind of sad when you think about it.

--------------------------------------

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it very much.


Well I take ownership for all my contributions to our relationship. I try to be humble & realized a long time ago that I can improve myself. There is always for improvement.

She's not here to defend herself & explain the issues she has with me, but I do know what those issues are. We discussed them a few times.

She wanted me to be more passionate about her. To look at her & treat her with lust & wanting.
She wanted me to be romantic like when we were dating.
She wanted me to be more confidant in life & not be shy.
She wanted me to be outgoing & not uncomfortable in settings that were unfamiliar to me.

Truthfully. I think these were the only issues she had with me.

Some of the things that I do though (maybe good things):
I cook, wash dishes, wash clothes, grocery shop, etc.
I can cook Thai, Viet & Chinese dishes. It is a hobby of mine that I have a lot of fun with. I also like to prepare meals for parties that we have had at our house.

We would go out to dinner & I would pay for it all. (usually $100-150 every time we went out). Every time we went to a restaurant such as Carrabba's Grill, Bonefish, Shula's Steakhouse,etc...She would have several drinks in addition to her meal...I've learned that drinks are quite expensive.

I could go on about what I have done that might be considered good, but that doesn't matter in her eyes...she only sees the bad.

I do admit, that her weight was an issue for me. It was from the beginning. We went to premarital counseling, I brought up the issue & she cried until we had to go to another topic. She knew how I felt. I got every indication from her though that she was going to get into shape, etc. She told me...after the wedding I will get into shape. It didnt happen obviously. She was a size 20 when we met & she is now a size 18. I didnt want her to be a size 4....just slim down to a healthy weight. She was 29 when we met & she was taking high blood pressure medications.


Anyway, I am not a 'great guy'. I can't be. I've been married twice now...both women cheating on me. I try & try at the beginning of the relationship to be a super great guy...they fall in love with me & over time I can't sustain being that super guy.

I don't know what to do in life now. I really want a family. I know for sure that I would be a great dad. I would love them beyond anything one could imagine..because my child would have part of me in them.
Well I snooped some more to see what WW is up to.

She is going strong on the dating site curvydates.
She is receiving emails & smiles thru the site from many men.



She has even given out her personal email address to one guy. Emailing all day yesterday until 2 am this morning.
This is a guy she just met yesterday.

She has emailed him self pics of herself in lingerie & other shots of her in a bra, at his request.

It does hurt to see her doing this. The woman I was going to have a child with, degrading herself this way.

Should I ever tell her that I know what she has done on the dating site? I thought about printing out the pictures for her to see, so she knows for sure that I know.




No don't give away your intel sources. Save everything as evidence for your lawyer.
Did you see the pic?
Sorry, I'm just trying to see if what I am seeing is real...
My mind can play denial
Start trusting your instincts! I wouldn't worry too much about what you see her saying/doing online. Just treat it all as admin work and document it. Let your lawyer sort the wheat from the chaff. Get a really GOOD one.
JR, I hope by now you're sitting in YOUR living room, after spraying Lysol all around!

BTW: CGN says she would like children "someday"!!! Tick-tock, tick-tock.....
Jeff, you married someone hoping they would change after you married them. And then in counceling she was continually crying because you didn't accept her for who she was. This sounds doomed from the start.
Hi Jeff, just wanting to wish you and your family well for this evening, and a full belly of good Thai food in preparation for tomorrow. I would suggest having very enticing smells wafting from the kitchen at the point where she comes back tomorrow. Mark your territory!


Let us know what's going on, Jeff - stay solid! We're rooting for you!
Hope all is well, Jeff. Update when you can.
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Hope all is well, Jeff. Update when you can.
Was today, Saturday, reclaim your house back day?
yeah I know I shouldnt be watching her...
She has been telling one guy that she isnt looking for a relationship now..just chatting for now. And that she isnt even divorced yet...she feels single, just not single on paper yet.


-------

Yes, I am sitting here in my house typing this.

I haven't been here in 4 weeks (28 days)

I've got my folks here with me.

I know by snooping that the WW has gone down to her parents house in Gainesville (about 2 hours away).

I am assuming that she will text me tomorrow asking if we are gone & when she can return.

I will notify her that plans have changed & we are staying here.
She can either stay up stairs in her room OR get a room at the Extended Stay Hotel, where I have been staying for the past 4 weeks.

If she decides to stay somewhere else, should we leave the house for say 2-3 hours so she can grab her stuff,clothes, etc?

Thought I would post a few things from snooping...
(I know I shouldn't care, but it makes me mad & more determined to rid this person out of my life)

The following are her words to some of these guys (I use that term loosely...they seem like horny losers)

-----------------

Wayward Wife Quotes from Internet Dating Site --Curvydates.com
enjoy smile



Listen...I'm not trying to play any games with you...sure, I'd love to see you in a shirtless pic and see more of your body...I'd like to see your tattoos too. I'm not sending you a topless pic, so if you think its that unfair you don't have to send me anything...I'm a fair and reasonable and repectful person...
Sent from Android


Hey Bob,
I'm really not looking for a relationship at this point...I'm not even divorced yet. I do feel single already though...just not single on paper yet...will be soon though. I'm just chatting here and there...I do talk to a lot of people on here. I don't want a rebound relationship, so I'm taking my time just chatting with people. Your email was a bit overwhelming...so I haven't yet taken the time to really respond to the whole thing...I keep getting distracted. I'm sorry...will try to respond soon.

(This guy Bob came on really strong with his email. It sounded so needy & pathetic that even I felt he is more of a doormat than I ever was.)
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
horny losers

Indeed. Makes me shudder how low a wayward will go dor their dope. I love how he won't respond with a pic. He's prob clinically obese or married.

This is how much she values herself. She's a porno actress doing it for free for numerous internet losers.

This is not an enemy to fear Jeff. Just tell her how it will be.

I would NOT leave the house for a few hours. She would change your locks. At least one person should stay and 'help'. Or I would tell her to just take a bag and you'll send the rest of her stuff on.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I am assuming that she will text me tomorrow asking if we are gone & when she can return.

I will notify her that plans have changed & we are staying here.

Not that your plans have changed, just that you are staying in your house like any homeowner would, period. Act like it's ridiculous to even ask if you're staying somewhere else. As you mentioned, you can recommend a nice hotel down the street.

No, you don't leave your house so that she can remove her stuff.
No it was HER crazy assumption that you were only staying one night.

Like NW says, just act like she's crazy to even suggest your leaving.

And it IS crazy. You haven't done anything wrong, you didn't end the marriage and you've been staying in a hotel.


If she wants to leave the marriage - that should actually involve leaving!
If she texts asking when you're leaving, just reply.

"Oh my family aren't sure when they are leaving us"

If she queries the "us", just say "Yes, us. Unless you're going somewhere?"

If she asks if you are moving back in "I don't understand what you mean - staying at a hotel for a while is not moving out. I never moved out".

Then when she goes batcrap crazy just say "Its only temporary until we sell. If you're not comfortable staying here with me, you can make any other living arrangements you like"
Can someone PM me or can I PM someone?
I have a question that I don't want to post here?
The best you can do is e-mail it to JustUss2@aol.com, and ask to have it forwarded, I guess. As a fellow male, I would be willing to answer it to the best of my ability. JU knows how to reach me.
Can I post an email address here?
I've got a sort of legal question
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Can I post an email address here?
I've got a sort of legal question
We aren't legal people, Jeff. We're peers.

If you have a legal question go ahead and post it, and we may be able to point you in the right direction to get your answer.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Can I post an email address here?
I've got a sort of legal question
We aren't legal people, Jeff. We're peers.

If you have a legal question go ahead and post it, and we may be able to point you in the right direction to get your answer.
Jeff, like mb said, post your question. While we might not be able to tell you what you can do in certain circumstances, we can probably tell you what not to do if you're in a radical frame of mind or simply confused about something. Just tell us what's going on. You have 6 hours to edit and delete your posts. Keep that in mind as well. The mods can and will help if it goes past the 6 hour window, so don't worry.
Well I don't really want to ask here in a public forum...
I don't want 'anyone' to use what I say here against me.

The issue at hand has got me very very worried.

****EDIT******
Well I'm no legal expert, but I shot you an email.

Well, Jeff, if you're asking legal questions, and then posting a throwaway email addy that could easily be read as ************ is not a really good way of not posting something that could be used against you.

Sorry, I would send a private message, but I guess the forum doesnt support this feature.

I sent Viper & Northwood emails.
Twelve hours and..........nothing?

It would have been expected that WW would have raised (un)holy hell on finding folks occupying her xxx-video studio.

JR, what goes on?
Hmm. Jeff, what is going one? You ARE still in YOUR house, correct?
x2
x3
I am still alive.

I need someone's advice.

Travel Nursing & what type of housing they can get.

Long story short stbxw is wanting to be a travel nurse.
She can then go off to other cities & live their for 13 weeks at the time. I think their housing is either free or they get a stipend. Either way, it works out great for them.

She & I have a mortgage together on our home, it is about $2000 a month.

Her suggestion is that she pays me $400 a month for 9 months max.

She feels this is fair since this is what she paid when we were living together for the utilities & cable tv.

I'm trying to get a feel how this even looks like to others.

So anyone that is a nurse or knows a nurse, please help me in what the housing is for a travel nurse.

Thanks
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Her suggestion is that she pays me $400 a month for 9 months max.

Hell No!


I'd want at least half of the mortgage payment each month until the property sells, but this is a clear indicator that you need to get an attorney and the courts involved to resolve this.

Your divorce decree will spell out EXACTLY who pays what and who gets what.

$400 is 1/5 of the mortgage and nine months is a short time to sell a house in. Besides, what recourse would you have if she chose not to pay for months 2-9? None. That's what.

I wouldn't talk to her anymore about any financial matters unless said discussions result in a legally binding agreement.

Let the courts handle this or you're going to get screwed over.
thanks Northwood

Yeah I she said today, that she went to see a lawyer about our agreement.


Is it enough that the **EDIT** cheated on me, signs up for dating websites & then on top of that wants to make money of me by letting me take the brunt of the mortgage payment.

-------
Hey Jeff,
So I decided to run the agreement over with a lawyer to help me understand it. He basically talked to me about home selling options, since that's really all we have to settle between us.
He said that since the house is prob worth about $185k per zillow.com, that we could just put it on the market ourselves and try to sell it...and take anything over $180k and split the difference between us. This option would at least save our credit. He says a quick sell is usually only granted if the owners have not paid the mortgage for at least 6 mos. And we would still owe money at the end anyway. There will be no profit/proceeds for us with this sell. I can send you $400/mo to go towards the mortgage every month until we sell the house, but we need to agree on a loss that we will split. Like...we agree to accept any offer of $180k and over so we can get out from under this house. Then we would split what is still owed. But we have to agree on something that is reasonable because I don't want to be bound to sending $400/mo for years while the house goes unsold because we set the price too high...that's not smart...it will end up costing us both more in the long run if we do that. I came up with $400 because its the average cost of the cable and utilities I was paying. I can keep you on my cell plan and keep paying that until I can stop the $400/mo. If we don't agree on a reasonable selling price, then I'd want to put a cap on how long I send the monthly $400....like 9 mos or something...we will come up with an agreed time frame..
I agree with everything else...keep what was ours...keep our own 401k, no alimony, split household items/assets, be responsible for our own cars and payments, split IVF refund...the tax refund for 2011 was put towards the IVF though...so at this point its part of the same sum that will be the IVF refund...
I plan on talking with my travel nurse recruiter today and finding out the details of that, but I hope to be doing that by Oct...will figure out living arrangements. You should move back in the house ASAP though...like I said...I will try to be out by mid Sept...like the 18th.
Tell me what you think. I also want this to be as fair as possible without dragging the home selling out for longer than is needed.
WW smile

Originally Posted by Jeff_R
So anyone that is a nurse or knows a nurse, please help me in what the housing is for a travel nurse.

It's not relevant and not your problem.

Well I am trying to get an idea on what the housing is for travel nurses.

I can't get an appt & her be a travel nurse...and then for me to pay half of the mortgage.

I'll have to stay in the house, in order for me to afford it.
Ok, guy...

1. Get your own cell phone and get off of her account.

2. Speak to an attorney about this housing stuff. Your WW is forgetting to include closing costs and the other stuff that you get asked to pay as a seller.

3. If the house loses money on the sale, then you both need to be responsible for covering the difference OR have it already agreed that you'll cover the difference and she'll cover some other debt. See, that's what the decree will figure up.

I would get an attorney lined up and get this stuff formalized. Otherwise, she'll hose you.
Yeah, I am going to see one next week.

I didnt think it would get this complicated.
She'll make a lot of money as a travel nurse.
She just wants to keep all of it & at the same time, make me pay.

**EDIT**
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Well I am trying to get an idea on what the housing is for travel nurses.

I can't get an appt & her be a travel nurse...and then for me to pay half of the mortgage.

I'll have to stay in the house, in order for me to afford it.

Understood, but how she pays for things is not your problem. What if she ends up working at a Denny's instead?

Pay the money, get an attorney involved and get the assets/debts divided up. There is plenty of stuff that you aren't thinking of because you don't know what you don't know. And there is way too much "verbal agreement" going on here with regards to her spliting refunds with you, etc.

As I mentioned before, you must have something in writing so that you'll have some legal recourse for when she balks or changes her mind on things.

Don't let her problems become your problems, ok?
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
You should move back in the house ASAP though...like I said...I will try to be out by mid Sept...like the 18th.

How long did you stay home? Until your folks left?

By your silence, we kind of figured something was up. wink
yes I didnt stay long.....b/c of what I mentioned offline to you & some others that contacted me.
It really scared me. I don't want my family to be affected by it either.
(actually I won't let it get that far, I am ready to leave this world if it comes to that.)



Anyway, I'm just trying to get a fair agreement with her & get this toxic person out of my life.

I gave her a written agreement, very basic. The attorney said to do this & that they would then take it & make it a legally binding agreement.

Now I'm going to up the stakes some & get the attorney involved all the way.



I see the true person she is now...

She plans on making money off of me...**EDIT**

She expects to just pay $3600 towards our mortgage & that's it.


Ive accepted that she has always been this way, before I knew her.

What a selfish cheating whore she is.
My plan B is if she doesn't accept a fair deal.

If she doesn't then I am moving back into the house.
I have nothing to lose.



We have the $1800 mortgage in both our names. Like I mentioned, she now wants to be a travel nurse (I think it is b/c she thinks she can run away from all this).

Well, she just wants to contribute $400 a month for a max of 9 months, until we sell the house.

(from my research so far)
Her housing from being a travel nurse is either free or the travel nurse company she works thru will give her a stipend (kind of like a bonus) to use for housing. I've read on nursing forums that it can be about $800 a week.

So, this just tells me that she is trying to make a profit on me.
Her plan is for me to pay $1400 & for her to pay $400 towards our mortgage. **edit**

In essence by her plan, if she gets free housing, she is just having to pay $400 out of pocket of her salary (I would pay $1400).
Or if she gets a housing stipend of $2400 a month, $400 is pocket change in order to keep our house from foreclosing.

She is a **EDIT** either way according to my calculations.
Her name's on the mortgage. She's responsible for half. Do not let her pay that measly $400.

Stay strong, friend.
Someone said this on another forum:

""What might work is if you to find out the fair market rental price of the house. Say that's $1000. Then the two of you split the mortgage amount. So you would each pay $400 a month.

That's pretty much the figures she is suggesting.

Your attorney might have suggested spliting 50/50 to you. But her attorney could argue that you have sole use of the property and hence should pay it all.""


Nope, I wont agree with this. No matter what an attorney says, or judge says. If I can't get it fair, the bank can have it with a foreclosure.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Nope, I wont agree with this. No matter what an attorney says, or judge says. If I can't get it fair, the bank can have it with a foreclosure.

Don't shoot yourself in the foot.

The best way to get even is to be successful. Being successful is also a great way to feel good about yourself. Find ways to gain in this...that is what she is doing. You have to be better at it. Hire an attorney.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
Someone said this on another forum:

""What might work is if you to find out the fair market rental price of the house. Say that's $1000. Then the two of you split the mortgage amount. So you would each pay $400 a month.

That's pretty much the figures she is suggesting.

Your attorney might have suggested spliting 50/50 to you. But her attorney could argue that you have sole use of the property and hence should pay it all.""


Nope, I wont agree with this. No matter what an attorney says, or judge says. If I can't get it fair, the bank can have it with a foreclosure.
Foreclosure happens frequently during a divorce. Avoid it if you can - it'll screw up your credit rating for years.

The fair market value of the house isn't what you can sell it for. Don't make a financial agreement based on 'fair market value' - talk to a real estate agent who knows the area and get the property listed. I don't know where you are to know what your market is like. You may have to take a hit in the current market, maybe not.
I guess I am wondering how the court will decide on a mortgage.

I can live there to repair & fix it u.
I won't have any furniture in it, just a bed. This is so it can be shown by a realtor.

She on the other hand can get free housing or $3000 a month for a place to live.

I dont want her money. I just want her to be responsible for 1/2.

If she didnt get free housing, then we could work out another
deal.


Just trying to get an idea on what the law will do. It just seems unfair, for me to have to pay most of the mortgage when in fact she is living in a free place.
Originally Posted by Jeff_R
I guess I am wondering how the court will decide on a mortgage.

I can live there to repair & fix it u.
I won't have any furniture in it, just a bed. This is so it can be shown by a realtor.

She on the other hand can get free housing or $3000 a month for a place to live.

I dont want her money. I just want her to be responsible for 1/2.

If she didnt get free housing, then we could work out another
deal.


Just trying to get an idea on what the law will do. It just seems unfair, for me to have to pay most of the mortgage when in fact she is living in a free place.
Here are your choices in a divorce action: You keep the house, refinance to get her off the mortgage and buy her out

She keeps the house and refinances to get you off the mortgage (buying you out.)

You sell the house and decide how to split the proceeds. If you're under water on your mortgage, you decide who is bringing what dollars to the closing table.

Who's name is on the Note? That's important.

The court isn't going to 'decide' about the mortgage. The current mortgage will have to be extinguished. That will be the responsibility of you and your wife.

I am a Title Agent. I deal with this frequently.
Both of our names are on the mortgage.

She isn't going to want the house. She wants to get out of town as fast as she can.
Because there are so many men she can meet in these different towns as a travel nurse.

She is busy on the dating site. Emails, chats, messenger...all day long.

She is going to get massages, sitting around drinking wine...basically she is taking all this very well.
Jeff focus on the issue and not on your wife.
Don't allow her behaviors to determine how YOU will feel.
Okay?
I'm trying to.....
It tough to see your wife talk about to someone else...
I've even learned things about her that I didnt know before:

The 3-4 ONS that she had in her youth.....meeting a man online, meeting a paramedic, meeting a guy at a tailgate party....

Even a foursome with other nurses (all friends, male/female) where she did oral with her friend's boyfriend all in the same bed. Later she gave the same guy more oral when her friend was no longer a girlfriend of him. Just for giving her a ride home one night...
Uhhhhm it makes me sick. I want to vomit.

Had I known this, I would have never married her.

We are 5 weeks past DDay...I know she has sent one guy online several photos of her privates in different states of arousal.

She tells the guy, that she doesnt plan on having any ONS in the future.
I want to throw up....
whore..whore

For others that subscribed to this thread, here's Jeff's update:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2661506&page=1
Jeff,

Even a foursome with other nurses (all friends, male/female) where she did oral with her friend's boyfriend all in the same bed. Later she gave the same guy more oral when her friend was no longer a girlfriend of him. Just for giving her a ride home one night...

She is living a life based on porno films, and she is constantly in a mode where she thinks about achieving her fantasies which will never go away. There is no chance of a lifelong partner here, unless you wish to be a cop for the rest of your life.

God Bless
Gamma
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