I recently discovered my husband's emotional need for physical attractiveness. I was very surprised by this need. My husband had an affair a few months ago, and it was at least partially because he was no longer physically attracted to me, and he felt like it would hurt me if he told me. He has since ended the affair, and told me the things he finds unattractive in me. I understand his frustration, particularly with my weight gain. I have already lost 23 lbs and am having lap-band surgery in September. I am wearing makeup, fixing my hair, wearing perfume,and trying to dress better. My friends have noticed the difference, but he doesn't seem to. I admit that I still have a long way to go. But does anyone have any advice on how I can attempt to meet this need while waiting to loose the weight? I feel like I could still loose him because it will take many months if not years to get back to the weight I was when we met. I appreciate any advice you may give!!!

Hi, Lew,

In marriage we should certainly try to meet the needs of our mate, and that includes physical attractiveness.

But unmet needs is not the cause of your husband's affair. There are plenty of ways to address unmet needs besides having an affair. Talking about it, counseling, even filing for divorce or separation may all be appropriate ways to address the issue of unmet needs in some situations, without an affair.

Have you read over what Dr. Harley has to say about how to recover your marriage after an affair? It is going to take a lot of work on both his part and yours. I will link some resources here for you on that.

But one important thing I think you need to understand, right off the bat, is that according to Dr. Harley your husband needs to take extraordinary precautions to ensure he never has another affair. He needs to break off all contact with his affair partner for life, tell you everything about the affair including who it was and how they contacted each other so that you can make sure this person is never around again and those circumstances never recur.

Here's the problem: due to the way the Love Bank works, if your husband is still letting other women make love bank deposits in his Love Bank, there is no way you can compete. Your account in his Love Bank will be closed, and no matter how well you do on meeting this emotional need, his emotions will let competitors win.

You shouldn't have to be in a situation where you fear you will lose your husband if you don't meet this emotional need fast enough. If he is talking to you like that, then he is abusing you, and is likely still involved with other women and feeling the contrast effect that Dr. Harley describes.

So we are going to ask you a lot of questions about when and how the affair occurred, and to what extent he is involved in recovery. He needs to understand that he must make changes if he wants to recover his marriage, and those changes are going to involve not ever setting up a situation where there are other women waiting in the wings.

Welcome to Marriage Builders; we are sorry for what brought you here, but we hope we can help you build a marriage with love that will last a lifetime!

Here is Dr. Harley's video about infidelity:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

Here are Dr. Harley's articles about what it takes to recover from infidelity:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

And here are Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

Please take a look at these, so we can take a look together at your marriage and make sure both of you are doing what it takes to recover.

Lew Sully, welcome to MArriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here. I concur with Markos that your husband did not have an affair because of your appearance. He had the affair because he has poor boundaries around women.

A few key questions:

1. has he ended all contact with the OW?

2. is she married, and if so, have you personally informed her husband?

3. has your H been completely open and honest about his affair?

4. have your family members, including children, been informed of his affair?

Hi Lew,

Melody Lanes Qs will prob be far more effective than your efforts trying to meet his needs flat-out like this.

Meeting needs IS important but it will not prevent an affair!

If you were in a coma, you wouldnt meet many needs either, but he wouldnt have an A in that situation if his boundaries were good.

TRYING to meet a need, usually works. It's strange he doesnt see what your friends see. Even stranger that he is blaming the PA need instead of his own weaknesses.

Is the A definitely over? Are you snooping to make sure?

To answer your question.....

Buckle down and get it done. Depending on your size, 23 lbs. may be nothing, or maybe something. If you want to meet this need, do it aggressively and with conviction. I too had let myself go so to speak, and recovered quickly. It sounds as if your approach is acceptable, ask about your makeup, what perfume he likes (have him buy it for you), what shoes ( have him go with you), etc etc etc. You should be losing 2-3 lbs. per week - yes per week. It is done all the time. If you are doing 1 pound every other week, you are not serious. As Larry says, "get 'er done". Good Luck !

dec, be careful! She is having surgery, and has lost 23 pounds. She sounds very serious to me.

The problem is that she is doing all this, and her husband is still not seeing it. The first possibility here is that he has never ended his affair and appropriate steps have not been taken to protect the marriage, in which case no matter what she does regarding his needs she can't win.

I would certainly encourage her to get to a healthy weight regardless, for the sake of her health, but it sounds like she's doing that just fine.

Her needs meeting efforts are fine. Its his reaction that sounds off.



This could well be the issue.



These are the steps needed to correct his poor boundaries and allow recovery to begin.

LS

Please take note of what the vets are saying because the weight is only part of the issue. I had the Lapband (here in the UK we call is referred to as simply gastric band) a year ago and it's not a quick or an easy solution and infact it added alot of extra stress on the marriage. I am not saying it isn't a good idea all I'm saying it's that it is not a quick fix solution and will only help so much in your situation.

I didn't loose any major weight after the band until I came accross a very informative article by one one the vets (MelodyLane) regarding a weight loss book explaining food on the MB forum in the general discussion part and then understood food better leading to major weight loss in the past 6 months.

My H had an affair but it wasn't related to my weight (infact his affair partner was twice my seize) but I had the op for me, for my health and for my energy levels.

You have a small window of time before the op where with the advice of the vets here you can truly get to grips with the A and your WH lack of boundaries before you take on a life changing operation that on its own wont help your marriage.

Lew, welcome to Marriage Builders.

Question: How much did you weigh when you got married? How much do you weigh now? Your husband has told you that your weight makes him unhappy, so you know that you need to address that.

But understand that he didn't have the right to have an affair because of your weight. That poor choice is totally on him.

Having said that - he's made it clear that your appearance is important to him. Hence my questions.

ETA: What has happened that would cause you "years" to lose the weight?

Originally Posted by indiegirl

Hi Lew,

Meeting needs IS important but it will not prevent an affair!

Originally Posted by markos

Hi, Lew,

But unmet needs is not the cause of your husband's affair. There are plenty of ways to address unmet needs besides having an affair. !

Dr. Harley states in "His needs, Her needs"

"Once a spouse lacks fulfillment of any of the five needs, it creates a thirst that must be quenched. If changes do not take place within the marriage to care
for that need, the individual will face the powerful temptation to fill it outside of marriage."

Seems to me a person would have to be incredibly strong to resist when our most desperate needs are not met, especially if they are not met for years on end.
Dr. Harley clearly says that if our needs are met in marriage, it is far less likely that we would stray.

Hi, 4tomorrow,

You mentioned yesterday you'd start your own thread. Looking forward to it.

Dr. Harley states that unmet needs do not have to lead to an affair; someone with unmet needs could certainly file for divorce, for example. That would be much less destructive to everyone's life compared to having an affair.

Dr. Harley also recommends that those who have been unfaithful in their marriage start their reading with his book Surviving an Affair, rather than his book His Needs Her Needs, so as not to form the conclusion that unmet needs cause affairs.

You are correct, but the only thing that will protect you are your boundaries around the opposite sex. My needs were not met, and I did not go out and commit adultery.

Dr. Harley also states there are times in a marriage when needs cannot be met, illness, pregnancy, deployments, so does that give the spouse free reign to go find another to fill those needs?

If you value your vows, and are committed to your marriage you will protect your temptations by making sure your needs are not met by the opposite sex.

Yes, but that "temptation" cannot be acted upon unless one has pisspoor boundaries. Lots of people don't have their needs met in marriage and they don't have affairs. Not having your needs met is NO EXCUSE to have an affair.

The other persons who have responded on your thread focused on your husband's infidelity. I'll choose to focus on the question you raised about meeting the EN of "physical attractiveness", and in particular weight gain.

First of all, from a man's point of view, I can say that some of us can be pretty turned off by any significant weight gain by our spouse. In my case for example, my spouse gained just 15 lbs at one point and it was an immediate turn off for me. I'd go even further and suggest that it can even be a love-buster of sorts if we bring up the subject and nothing happens. From your comments above, it sounds like you gained signficant weight since your M, which was likely a great turn-off for your H. Did he ever mention it before his A? How did you respond?

The good news is that, something can be done about excessive weight gain in most circumstances, and you usually don't have to go all the way back to your pre-M weight to make a positive impact in your spouse. The bad news is, like you suggested, it will take some time. The good news again is that, even though he might not be paying much notice now, he WILL start to pay notice as the effects of your weight loss become more noticeable.

On another note, while makeup and perfume is nice, becoming a "high-maintenance" spouse could be a turn-off for many men, including your H. My W looks great with makeup on, but I actually prefer she keep it as light as possible, and only when we're going out. In fact, that was one of the attributes that I found really attractive about her when we first started being a couple. Happily she agrees with that approach.

Thank you, that is very true.
I would like to ask a question about that but will go to my own thread for it.

Besides working the path for recovering from your WH's affair here is a radio clip on physical attractiveness.

Radio Clip on Physcial Attractiveness

Thanks for all the responses, guys! I'll try to answer all your questions and give you more details over the next few days.

LewSully,

My xWH and I had the joy of speaking to Dr. Harley concerning my xWH's leaving our family and subsequent divorce. It was a real eye opener. Dr. Harley's thoughts on my WH's need for PA are posted below.

My xWH left me and our many kids for a very athletic, beautiful whore. This was a devastating blow to me because I overweight (quite fat actually) and breastfeeding two of my kids at the time. When I saw what he abandoned us for the rejection is forever etched into my brain. IT was a terrible blow.

That being said so much has come out of this and speaking to Dr. Harley was pivotal to my healing. Here is what the good Doc told me ...

First off my WH has a very very very high need for physical attractiveness, and a woman who is athletically fit. This EN ties into a strong emotional need for recreation. The whore filled both of these EN's with buckets of dumps into his lovebank. She was beautiful and she enjoyed working out with him. (This is exactly what attracted WH and I went we dated 18 years ago. I was physically fit, beautiful, and he and I enjoyed lots of recreational activity together). Dr. Harley said this combination is the key factor in loading up my WH's lovebank. He will continuously choose these kinds of women no matter what else they have going for them.

I asked Dr. Harley what I needed to do in Plan B to wait it out for my WH. He said, "If I was to attract my WH back, then I needed to become this athletic, beautiful woman (the woman he married, i.e. wife of his youth). I had to lose the weight, get into athletic shape." Dr. Harley believed WH, when he comes out of the fog in (2-5 years), would likely return to me and the kids because of the extra caveat of my monetary contributions and my domestic support. Dr. Harley said if he and I were to get back together, then no matter what I would have to remain physically attractive (the way WH needs) for my marriage due to this very high EN.

Dr. Harley actually finds quite a few men have this very high PA need and he does not fault them for it. It is their EN and when it is filled it can dump massive amounts of love into their banks.

That being said, Dr. Harley went on to explain to me that my WH was still very wayward. He suggested he would be nothing but an anchor strapped to my neck if he returned AS-IS, and all women in his life will soon realize how he is nothing but an anchor. His need for PA and RC cannot compete with his belief in unconditional love, his extreme selfishness, and his waywardness. My WH believes a woman should unconditionally love him no matter the expense to the woman.

That was last Winter ... where am I at today?

I am divorced, very thin, and extremely athletic. I took Dr. Harley's words and ran with them. The difference is today I WILL NOT take my xWH back. I have let him "go" as they say on this forum. I will admit his need for PA and RC was my motivation. At first I was doing it for him, and I will not lie there will always be a part of me that is saying to him and his whore, "Up Yours...who is fat now!!!"

The greatest joy out of this is how I feel about myself. Losing the weight and gaining my youthful self back was originally done for my xWH, but today I reap the benefits for me. I didn't realize finding me was actually the key finding happiness. I was holding onto WH because I thought to my fat self he was the best I was ever going to get. Now I realize from HNHN I am the full package of wife. Whatever man I choose will be a man who gets a HNHN woman. To top it off my gazillion kids get a healthy, active mommy who is teaching them what PA means in a marriage.

As for my xWH ... he was just an anchor strapped to my neck for 18 years. Today ... xWH continues to drown and I am swimming to victory. My skinny self and I ... I am almost 40 years old ... but I feel 20 and I am living life youthful, vibrant, and strong. Honestly I cannot imagine going back to fat. I am proud of my hardwork. It was hardwork. It took every ounce of discipline, motivation, and strength to lose the 80 pounds. The best part about this is this is all mine. I own it. I cleaned up my side of the fence. I made life happen.

ETA: Sorry your post had me thinking all day... more thoughts added

LewSully ... Something to keep in mind concerning physical attractiveness.

It isn't about you ... it is about him. He feels good when you look good, and that may seem wrong to the outside world, but to Dr. Harley he can see the value in this. It is a reflection of a man's need for admiration. You can fill his lovebank when he can feel good about himself, and when your physical attractiveness complements his looks it helps him feel admired.

To the outside world looking in that may seem shallow, but when you live it it isn't shallow at all. The one thing I regret terribly about my marriage is my failure to see this important emotional need, and how it links itself to a man's intimate emotional needs (RC, Admiration, and Sexual Fulfillment).

It has taken me a very long time to forgive myself for getting fat, and remaining in that state for many years. My choice was about me and my lack of proper care for my xWH and for myself. I did not fully grasp its true importance until I read FILSIL along with HNHN and Lovebusters. I am just thankful I have the opportunity to know this now, and although it isn't by my choice, I can take this learned knowledge and apply it to new relationships with men.

Today my health reflects a spiritual place I have allowed myself to grow. I treat my body as a temple of Christ. I feed it with God's given nature and try to accommodate it with rest, little stress, and peaceful actions. I found a way to eat that I can live with daily, and I understand as I age I will continuously have to reduce my calorie intake to stay properly fit. My body is 80% food and 20% exercise. Not sure why ... but it is just the way I am.

Not to make my post above too long ... there is something I encourage you to ponder ... how is the current state of your marriage contributing to your weight?

I chose to get fat for a number of reasons, but mainly because food became my coping mechanism. I will fully admit. I ate my marriage for years. I blame myself for developing this terrible bad habit.

On my third read of HNHN along with Lovebusters a light bulb went off and I spent an entire night writing down all the bad habits I developed in my marriage.

It was a daunting list ... filled with anger, disrespect, binging (never purging), laziness, too much sleep, too much work, and too much TV.

Then I wrote a list of everything my WH had done to build resentment, anger, and hurt. It took me a week of thought, but I realized none of it mattered. He was gone. It was too late.

A week later I was served with divorce papers. I had two daunting, depressing, and crappy lists of shoulda, coulda, wouldas.

I wrote both lists in October 2011. I was only down 30 pounds since d-day. I was either going to crap or get off the pot. I decided it was time. It was time to stop being the victim. It was time to really grasp what was happening to my life, and how I planned to make me the best I could be. That was it ... my mind was made up to become the best me.

You say you may lose your husband in the meantime. I don't think that is necessarily true. Demonstrating to him you understand his need for PA will demonstrate to him your thoughtfulness in caring for him. All you can do is apologize for not realizing PA's importance, and then show him how you understand it now.

Negotiate with him how you both can work together to meet this need. He can give you feedback on how your PA fills his lovebank, and you can work to make sure you are making the changes that fill his lovebank.

As long as he understands the importance of protecting his boundaries around women of the opposite sex who meet this need for him, then that EP will help you over time trust your PA changes will be all he is desiring. This will have to be a very strong EP for you. Otherwise you may never feel safe. Pornography is one place I would make sure his need for PA is not getting met. Your WH is likely to have a great contrast effect due to his PA need. If he sees this kind of woman over and over again, then you have a very tough battle because as you age you will never be able to compete with the young whores in porn, strip clubs, or in places he can have a contrast effect in his mind.

Godgivemestrength

I want to thank you for your posts because I see similarities in our situations. I gained a lot of weight in our 19 year marriage (and also lost myself). I've now lost over 40 pounds but have a way to do to get to the weight I want.

I think either PA or SF is my WH's top EN and it sounds silly now but during the marriage I didn't realise just how much gaining weight had affected things. However a lot of the weight gain was due to my unhappiness in the marriage.

I think its too late for WH and me but like you I'm gradually rediscovering myself.

Hi Markos,
Yes, I have read the articles on how to recover from infidelity and the basic concepts. I will get to the video soon.

It's kind of an odd situation. . .I had no clue about the affair. I never would have known if he hadn't told me.

About a month ago, he was acting all depressed, and I kept asking what was wrong and he wouldn't tell me. I eventually figured out that it was me, and when I told him that, the flood gates opened up. He told me that although he still loved me, I felt more like a cousin to him than a wife. I had really let myself go. He listed all the things he found unattractive with me (weight being probably the biggest) and said he wasn't sure he could ever get the old feelings back again. I knew that he was unhappy with my appearance, but I had no idea to what extent it was affecting him. After several weeks of working on our relationship without much progress (I had already started the process to have the weight loss surgery in January by the way) he told me he had cheated on me. I was and still am in shock. I never suspected that at all. I don't even know how he found the time to do it! I've tried to pry more information out of him, but he says it's too painful for him. He says he's really ashamed and can't believe he stooped so low. When I've asked who it was with, he always says "it doesn't matter". That makes me wonder if it's somebody I know, but haven't been able to figure it out. It almost has to be someone from work, because he hasn't made many phone calls to any one particular person.

Anyway aside from all that, I don't know how much of my fear is simply a lack of self-esteem. Maybe I shouldn't be so afraid of loosing him. After all, he didn't have to tell me about it. He says she wanted more, but he ended it with her because he wanted to stay with me. He is very depressed right now and at least some of it is guilt-hopefully a lot of it! Since he told me about the affair and I decided to forgive him and try to make it work, things have actually gotten a little better. He seemed genuinely grateful. My frustration is that I feel like I'm the only one fighting for this marriage. I feel like after everything he said and did to me, that he should be working his tail off trying to make things right with me. I'm a little less afraid of losing him today than I was when I originally posted, but I'm still going through a roller coaster of emotions. I guess the depression is a big hinderance, but dang-it, I just want him to fight with me! Make me feel like he wants me back!!

Melody,
I don't know much about the OW; I don't know how much I should push him either. He really doesn't want to talk about it, and I've been afraid to push him for fear that I will just make things worse. We don't have any kids, so at least that's one thing we don't have to worry about.

What stress were you under? And no, your H didn't have the right to screw around with another woman because HE was 'under stress'. Don't give him that out.

You know one of the best ways to relieve stress? EXERCISE. Truly. (And I'm still not giving your WH an out - stress is NOT an excuse for having an affair!)

ManInMotion,

You bring up a good point. My husband tried to talk me into having the surgery for a couple of years before I agreed to it. I didn't want to admit defeat and admit that I needed help. Although I had no idea the depth to which my weight gain bothered him, I should have made more of an effort and not fought so long. No, that does not give him free reign to have an affair, but I have to wonder what would have happened if I had listened to him sooner.

And don't worry. . .no one would ever think I was "high-maintenance"!

I gained 80 lbs in the first 3 years of our marriage. I realize we all have a choice. I chose to cope with my stress by eating, and he chose to cope by having an affair. Neither was a healthy choice. I can't help but blame myself to an extent, but definitely realize it was HIS bad choice to cheat. I think now I have the motivation to really make my weight loss surgery work, so hopefully it will come off quickly. I just can't "backslide" or anything. I just keep telling myself "I love him more than food."

Godgivesmestrength,

Congratulations on your weight loss! Hopefully I'll be as successful as you. I'm similar-eating is my coping mechanism. However, I wasn't eating my marriage, I thought my marriage was pretty great. But I was working a full-time job while in graduate school, he was unemployed, I had undiagnosed sleep apnea, and it just snowballed. I would tell myself "I deserve to eat this." What I know now is that I don't deserve fried chicken and french fries, I DESERVE TO BE HEALTHY! It's really hard to change that mindset, but I'm making progress.

Maritalbliss,
No, I'm not excusing him, just trying to understand and change the conditions that were contributing factors. I can't fix everything, but I'll fix everything I can!

I'm sure the vets will get to it, but you need to know exactly who OW is, and go through the normal steps like exposure, polygraph etc. You deserve to have all the information about what's been going on in your life and he needs accountability. I'll leave it at that for now.

I'm going to second this. There is absolutely no way you can even begin to recover your marriage until you have all of the facts regarding the affair. For all you know, your H could still be in contact with the OW. If it was someone at work, and they still work together, there is no way you will ever recover. Your H could very well still be involved with the OW, or at the very least, if they still work together, he will be constantly triggered every time he sees her.

Your question about meeting your H's need for PA is the least of your worries. You are putting the cart way before the horse. First, you need to find out who the OW is and get all of the details of the A. Then, you need to make sure your H is no longer in contact with this OW. He needs to write a No-Contact letter and commit to a plan of recovery. I would focus on those things for now.

If we are to assume that her H is still wayward (which I would assume, seeing that he's still being secretive about the OW), isn't the standard suggestion to Plan A, which means meeting her wayward spouse's primary needs? And if one of those primary needs is PA, then shouldn't be at or near the TOP of her concerns, not the "least of her worries"?

This is your FIRST priority. If he wants to remain with you after putting you through so much deceit, he has to start being honest.

Go to him immediately and tell him you want full details about the OW and Radical Honesty. Any Qs about the affair you want answered must be answered in full. In fact tell him to write you out a timeline of how everything happened including the details you request.

You should also install snooping tools as he still is not being fully honest with you.

You are doing well cleaning up your side of the street by working out and dieting etc, so don't let his excuses about PA and stress distract you from keeping you bar high.

You ARE meeting his PA need by putting together a plan to lose weight and doing the work of that plan. A willingness to meet needs and embarking on a plan is the same thing as meeting needs. A woman with FS support is happy to go without cash while her husbands trains for a higher paid job. that's what you're doing with your weight loss, so he is just making excuses now.

If HE were doing the work of the recovery plan, that would be enough for you wouldn't it? Even though it takes a few years to achieve recovery.

So if you are willing to wait a few years for recovery healing after such a traumatic incident, he should be willing to wait for the results of your PA plan.

Even the dumbest wayward will notice and say to themselves 'well she is going to the gym a lot more'.

You won't recover from this unless you keep your bar high and insist on RH and that he follow the plan.

Have you read up on exposure? That will be perfect for shaking him out of his comfort zone.

I couldnt agree more with this.

Exactly. At any point, he could have told you HONESTLY how much his PA need was bothering him and he only hinted at it. If he had told you it was making him consider leaving the marriage and finding someone else, you would have listened and responded to that RH at any point.

We need RH in order to understand what needs doing, and what is a priority.

He stil refuses to give you RH about OW and that means you will be forever working in the dark, unsure of whats happening.

I would do the following:

1) install snooping tools so you can verify what is happening while your H is not bneing honest
2) tell him you require full details and RH. I would say things to the effect of "I wil not stay in a secretive marriage" or "I will not be in adishonest marriage"

If he gives you grief about not meeting his PA need, smile brightly and say something like "I am so excited about my weight loss plan. Do you want to go away somewhere and celebrate my goal weight?"

Of course you should keep up your PA efforts (it'll keep you happier for one thing) but the real problem is his lack of RH and remorse.

Here you go.

Exposure 101

She will have no trouble losing weight on the infidelity diet, will she?

She has a great carrot, so the carrot is the least of her worries. She needs a better stick, so she needs to worry about that.

I would say this is the least of her worries because it is HANDLED. As indiegirl describes, there is a plan in place here, and this is being addressed. There's not a lot of additional work needed on attractiveness other than to work the plan. The more pressing problems are disrupting the affair, because if the affair is not disrupted it won't matter how much weight she loses.

Dr. Harley says that for many people, Plan A can be only about demonstrating WILLINGNESS to meet emotional needs, because the spouse in an active affair usually is not open to love bank deposits from their spouse. It is important, especially for women, to understand that they should not destroy themselves in an all out attempt to meet a wayward's emotional needs at all cost.

Lets remember that Plan A lasts only three weeks...

So no Plan A should see anyone lose 80lbs!!!

But you can pledge to.

Anyway it wasnt serious enough for him to ever consider leaving. It's just justification for the A and his subsequent moodiness and failures in not healing her.

Snooping and exposure are the priorities!

It feels like I'm walking a tightrope. I guess since I'm supposed to expect 3-6 months of him being in a bad mood and not really being receptive to any love bank deposits I try to make then his behavior at this point is normal? He is a textbook case of depression right now. I have seen moments of true remorse, but it just seems to me like if he wronged me so much, he should be bending over backwards to try and make me feel better.

Lew, until you know who the OW is and have exposed this affair you will remain in limbo. He's going to cake-eat. What have you done about exposing this affair?

Lew, please take a look at:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

Dr. Harley says you can't win against the affair in Plan A by only making love bank deposits. It is important to do everything possible to disrupt the affair and hasten it to an early end.

Three to six months???

No no no.

Exposure, snooping and negotiating him to get on board with a full recovery plan should take only three weeks.

If you wait that long your love bank will drain and recovery will be impossible. Your health will suffer too.

If he is still protecting the secrets of his affair and not healing you after three weeks you should Plan B him.

You are being gaslighted into accepting crumbs. Why should you, the BS accept more secrets? And blame? This is a FR waiting to happen unless you get tough.

Exposure is often the most effective tool on a waywards attitude.

What are you doing re exposure?

We talked a little tonight. I didn't pressure him very much to reveal exactly who she was. He mentioned how he hated going to work lately, and I asked if SHE was there, and he said "No, you don't have to worry about that; she's gone." I asked him if she was totally out of his life, and he said yes. That's a big relief! If he was going to have to quit his job, we were going to be up the creek!

The man is seriously depressed though. I have been trying to talk him into going to the doctor to try some antidepressants. He's been very resistant to that, but he told me tonight that he would try to call the doctor Monday morning. I really, really, really hope that will help. When I bring up that I feel like he doesn't even want to be around me, he says he doesn't want to be around anyone, not even himself. I hope and pray that if we can treat the depression successfully that he will be more willing to work on our marriage. Right now I feel like I'm trying to work on a broken marriage with a brick wall.

Thanks for the advice and for letting me vent!!!

Lew, your fogged-out wayward husband has just told you that his girlfriend is "gone". Please tell me you didn't buy this for one second!

CONFIRM CONFIRM CONFIRM (with anyone other than your husband!)

So you haven't exposed?

Will he write the NC letter? If he won't, that will be a huge red flag that she isn't gone just took it deeper.

What spying techniques do you have in place?

BH, where's that FR link?

lew, you haven't actually done anything to engender the end of the a, is that right? i wouldn't be too quick to believe this statement (sorry, i know that hurts). you must verify, which you can't do if you don't know who she is. plus, your WH needs to get onboard with recovery, which you can't do without O&H.

please tell us where you are in the process. right now, it appears the only action that has occurred is this statement. i'm afraid you need to consider your relationship still under attack from an active a. there's a lot of work to be done before you can even consider recovery.

And exposure? Snooping? What is being done?

Here they are. Please read these.
False Recovery
False Recovery:Need voices of experience

I am watching his phone, computer and money usage. Keep in mind also that I didn't discover the affair; I would never have known about it if he hadn't told me. At what point can I believe him? I'm not finding any evidence that anything is going on. That being said, he is exhibiting some behaviors that I saw in the False Recovery thread, like being so "hurt" and defensive when I bring up the subject. When he gets home tonight I will ask him to come clean with me about who she was and how it happened. He's good at dodging questions though. I'm going to have to be tough. Any prayers you could send up on my behalf would be greatly appreciated.

Yes its fairly obvious he is not repentant. He chooses to blame you and will blame ongoing slips on you too.



Does he know? Or are you being properly discreet? You need to snoop like a bloodhound.

As you don't know who OW is, he could be seeing her all the time (in spite of what he says)


That's his call. If you are calm, and say "this is what it will take to keep me in the marriage" you've done your part. Give him ALL the MB conditions for recovery. Not just RH.

Do you have the conditions? Write them down for him.

If he says no, or gets defensive, don't argue, just say "well That's your call but I will not stay in a secretive/unhealed marriage" then go off and do something else.

Being calm scares the crap out of waywards.

I am concerned why you do not feel that it is your RIGHT, as his WIFE, to have even the identity of the POSOW who slept with YOUR HUSBAND. Why you are accepting this blatant lack of respect and remorse? You deserve better than this. You know that don't you?

"A betrayed spouse usually expects their wayward spouse to express guilt and remorse over the pain inflicted by the thoughtlessness of the affiar. . .at the beginning of recovery, remorse is rarely expressed. . .It's very common for the wayward spouse to not feel remorse." ~p. 84 of Surviving an Affair

Remorse isn't essential - from WWs, as their brain chemistry is more affected by the A.

A WH should return "hat in hand" ready to do anything.

But remorse or no remorse THEY HAVE TO WORK THE PLAN!!!

Sue, a typical WW was not remorseful but without RH she would have been sent straight back to Plan B.

DR H "without a plan for recovery in place, the BS is better off continuing with Plan B"

Skipping exposure and RH is not a 'small deviation' it is a huge oversight, looking the other way and being denial.

Try a quick fix of your own devising if you want a disastrous result and an FR.

If you want success, follow the MB plan in FULL

Tell him to commit to a Plan for recovery.

Tell him:

I want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and I will NOT stay in a loveless marriage. I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take:

1. End all contact with OW for life - send her a letter that we write together and is mailed by me

2. No more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. Complete transparency - cell phone passwords,finances etc

4. No more opposite sex friendships

5. Complete honesty about your affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. Commit to a program for marital recovery of my choosing.

This is what it will take to keep me in this marriage. You will have to have willingness and ability to make radical changes in your life if we are going to be married. Your lifestyle must become an open book, holding nothing back. These precautions are to prevent another affair. I love you and have no doubt that you are capable of loving behaviour and meeting these requirements

I really can't find any evidence that he is continuing the affair. I think the problem is he just doesn't want to fix his relationship with me. He still doesn't want to talk about it though. He acts like I'm the one who cheated on him. He just seems disgusted with me and has no desire to make things better. He can't even remember why he fell in love with me in the first place. So what now? Kick him out?

This right here pretty much is proof that the A is still active. All of the above smack of a wayward in an active A.

Keep snooping.

That is EXACTLY what my H said to me. He was still having the A. Your H has given his feelings, opened his heart to the other woman, so he has none for you. DON'T listen to his revision of history. He loved you enough to marry you at the time he married you, or he wouldn't have!!!! They ALL say that!!!! The grass is always greener on the other side for these foggy waywards b/c they don't have REAL lives with these AP's. They are living the easy, fun, no problems, always exciting, FANTASY that does not exist in REAL life relationships!!!! It took him creating the marriage that he wanted also. It wasn't up to just you to create a wonderful marriage. He chose to treat you disrespectfully, and cheat on you as a way to handle his issues instead of negotiate, love through, and show respect to create a better marriage. DON'T LET HIM TURN THIS AROUND ON YOU!!!!! Don't listen to his fogbabble. It is said to hurt you and project the blame on to you!!!!! You are controlable when you are down!!! Put up a force field and see his fogbabble and gaslighting for the S#!t that it is!!!!! Don't take it ANYMORE!!!! Draw your line. Ok, you don't know, C-YA!!!!!! B/c what is he giving you to hold on to? Why would you want to stay with that? Make him hit rock bottom!!!! What he does then, is up to him. If he doesn't choose your marriage, then you don't want it. You would live miserably for the entire rest of your life staying with someone like that!!! Care enough about yourself to give him the chance to break free of the fog and choose you. If he doesn't, then you KNOW and can make the right decisions for you!!!

$100 says it's a coworker and, besides, what did you expect him to say..."Yeah, honey, she's still there and we see each other all the time." Think about that, ok?

Has he told you her name yet?

His behavior screams of someone that is in an active affair.

Can you afford a PI?

Private Investigators

Don't need one. I found the evidence I need. Guess what? He's having affairs with TWO DIFFERENT WOMEN!!! One of them knows about both of us. I sent the other one a message asking if she knew about the other.

So, he's gone. I kicked him out. I'm in the process now of sending messages to his Facebook friends, and will call his mom tomorrow. Thanks for sticking to your guns, guys. I probably would have given him the benefit of the doubt forever.

What the heck did you do to find all of this out in just a little over 3 hours?!!! WOW, give me your secrets!!!!! I am soo sorry LewSully. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt do they? They have to earn it. He wasn't. His behavior told you that. It is just that we don't want to believe it. Good for you kicking him out. Mine won't leave. I am glad you are on top of it now!

Well, I had been checking his phone calls and text messages and couldn't find anything. While he was snoring away in the bed I took his cell phone and was attempting to install a GPS locator so I could see if he was where he said he was or not. I was having trouble getting it to work, and happened to notice he had Yahoo messenger installed. I had seen this on his computer but was unable to guess his password to get in. However, on his phone, it let me right in! I guess he was smart enough to delete texts and phone calls, but not smart enough to delete the IMs.

Waywards always mess up.

Did you save the evidence?

Send the messages to yourself?

Is he out of the house now?

Good on exposure. Are you following the Exposure thread? Who are your exposure targets?

Who are these OW? Are they married? You need to find out who they are and expose on their side.

I couldn't figure out how to send the messages to myself. All I know is their first names, and that one lives near my house. I should have written down their phone numbers before letting him know I had found him out, but I wasn't thinking clearly. He is out of the house now. He didn't take anything with him, so I don't know when he'll be back.

Ok can you investigate and try and get their names?

You need to find out who these OW are so you can expose on their side.

I'll try, but I don't have much to go on.

At this point, it might be pretty easy for a PI to figure out the two names for you.

Can you afford a Private Investigator

He will probably visit the OW or stay with them, now he has 'space'. A PI could prob get the goods for exposing them too.

Well done you LS! That's some great detective work you carried out. I dont suppose you managed to kep hold of the phone or put GPS on it?

Not to worry if not. While hard evidence is nice, your witnessing the messages is evidence enough.

Now are you staying calm, no AOs? I would put into place a simple Plan A, always look your best, always be calm and expose the hell out of these affairs.

Plan A even if you dont want to reconcile. Plan A is just good common sense which will keep you grounded and sane.

Does either one of the As affect his workplace? You'll need workplace exposure if so.

Dont forget exposure to your loved ones and mutual friends. Youll need the support.

Am I supposed to expose to ALL his Facebook friends, even the ones that I don't know who they are?

I've already exposed to those I think he is closest to.

No concentrate on the best targets. If he's a popular guy who cares more about stranger/general approval then perhaps. Otherwise focus on nearest and dearest.

OK. Thanks!

I'm going back to your original post because it is so interesting to review the perceived original problem now that you know what is really going on. Two active affairs.

Here is my advice.
Move ahead with your weight loss/healthy living changes as planned. This is PLAN A .... becoming the best spouse you can be. Yes, weight loss takes time, but showing the effort and making progress is daily.

Your WH may have given himself permission to screw around because you had let yourself go a bit, but once you stop doing that, it is no longer an excuse, and he will have to come up with a new one. (pay attention, he will fog-babble some excuse)

Do not allow yourself to be deterred or detoured by his indifference. Your reward for your hard work will be personal if not marital.

No one deserves to be cheated on.

In reality, your pre-affair marriage was a renter-renter agreement. If you ever do have a chance for reconciliation with WH, understand that POJA will need to be the 'holy grail' of your relationship. POJA requires PORH. Your H should not sacrifice his need for an attractive wife, which he apparently was doing.

I get the feeling he's not really a bad guy, but he's developed a habit of dishonesty which he will need to break.

I wish you the very best in your efforts.

Meanwhile, Plan A carrot and stick. Use your self-improvements as a major carrot.

He used to be the kindest, most loving man I had ever met. Not just towards me, but towards everyone. The kind of guy who stops and helps someone whose car is broken down on the side of the road. The kind of guy who always opens the door for you.

But he's not that guy anymore. Everyone has noticed. He's full of road rage, says he hates people in general, never smiles anymore. He's like a totally different person. It's almost like he's possessed or something.

17 years ago, when my H was living IN his sinful nature, he was an A-hole.
He's again a sweetheart.

You cannot control what he does with his life now. But just knowing that he started out as a good man is encouraging.

Most adulterers are miserable and unhappy with themselves. It's not your fault.

Plan A, baby!

Sorry to hear this, LS, the others beat me to the punch, just want to reiterate, continue weight loss, whether it works wonders with him or not, it will be good for YOU.

Glad to hear you're exposing!

I just got this email from him:

I don't want to argue, fuss, or fight right now. I am writing to ask you about a time that I can come over and get some of my things. (Clothes, toothbrush, etc) I do not want a confrontation, so please let me know when I can come by, be by myself to get some essentials, and leave.

As far as everything else goes, I ask that you please let me send the two cars I got from Hoss back to him. (Ugly Bob, and the '55 in the garage) They were gifts from him, and I would really appreciate if I could just give those two back to him. Also, I ask that you let me send the titles to Donnie and Juniors cars back to SC, and we not fight over those. Those two cars have been a close part of my family since I was too little to remember, and it would just be wrong to seperate them from the family... And if I can just keep the Toyota truck to have something to drive back and forth to work. All the rest you can either keep, sell, crush, or do as you see fit.If you would allow me to, I could still try to sell some of them to recover some money to pay off the credit cards, etc, but that is up to you.. If you'll agree to this, in exchange, i'll liquidate my stock money, and give you the biggest portion of it. There should be roughly $6,500 in there before the taxes and penalties, and if I could keep maybe 10% or so of it to get by with, you can have the rest towards bills. Also, i'll continue to direct deposit half of my check into your account, keeping just enough to live on and get by with until the divorce is final. I don't think I'm asking too much, and though I know you are really upset and mad right now, I do NOT want to talk about this in person, or on the phone. I know our conversations will just turn into arguments, and that will not be good for either of us now. We just need to settle this and move on. I cannot let go of what I've done to you, and you DO deserve better. I am really sorry this all worked out this way, but like I told you last night, I've finally realized that this was about me, not you. I'm the one that will have to answer for this in the long run, so let's just let this go, and not do anymore damage to each other than has already been done..

I will await your reply...


Any thoughts on how I should respond?

Make an appt. w/an attorney ASAP! If the cars were his and he wants them in his family and there is no $ owed against them and you have no problem with it, fine, but be careful what you agree to with him, get legal advice first. Do you have joint bills, credit cards? Are you buying a house or renting?

There's a lot of cars in question here. Some he bought long before he knew me, and some we bought together. One car we took out a loan on and owe a substantial amount on. I believe that car is in both our names. Most of the bills are joint, but the house is in my name only, so at least I won't be homeless. I would like to get some money from selling the cars, since we have substantial credit card debt because of them.

Okay, start calling attorneys, get an appt. Don't commit to anything financial with him until you've talked to one. Attorneys will best be able to come to an agreement that will work. Pack his personal items and clothes and set them in the garage or some other place and change the locks on your house!

At this point I wouldn't believe or trust anything he says. He's already shown himself to be a liar and waywards going through a breakup are likely to do anything. Cover yourself. Open a new bank account in your name, get some $ into it. Caution: My XH, when we were married, w/d $ from the bank we didn't have in it (I hadn't known you can do that), also wrote hot checks, etc., quit his job, went into hiding, stuck me with all the bills, to a tune of over $50,000.00. I was shocked. I will pay the rest of my life. I got a judgment but it's useless as he learned to work cash under the table and hide from me. Now that he's going on disability...well never mind, I've moved on from him and know I'll never see a penny back, I just don't want to see anyone else go through what I was blindsided with. We think we know them...I've learned a lot! If you have any joint accounts, get rid of them, get your name off so you can't be stuck!

ITA with Kayc. Don't commit to anything financially. You need to get legal help.

yep - you need a lawyer asap. don't let his seemingly "willing" attitude fool you, because fooling you is what he's hoping to do. his email to you made all the little hairs on my body stand straight up!

they always come across as "nice" in the beginning when they think they can still screw you over. and then they turn around and knife you in the back. get to a lawyer asap and get yourself protected.

you're a smart girl, lew, and you've done amazing so far. keep up the good work!

Ditto.

His motives aren't so pure. There's a reason for this and he's looking ten steps ahead trying to head off a problem. Likely, he has someone telling him to move these cars.

He's very angry this morning. He still refuses to talk to me on the phone or see me in person (I haven't tried, but he keeps reminding me that he doesn't want to see me). He's sent me several very angry texts this morning, wanting me to hurry up and tell him what to do. He's probably come to realize that without my income, he's really going to struggle. I make more than twice what he makes. I figure that's why he stayed around so long; he didn't want to give up his lifestyle and "stuff".

I love reading wayward scribblings .... My translation in red

I don't want to argue, fuss, or fight right now. I just want to tell you what to do, then you do it without comment.

I am writing to ask you about a time that I can come over and get some of my things. (Clothes, toothbrush, etc) I can't afford a new toothbrush, and the OW won't buy me one.

I do not want a confrontation I want to be in control, so please let me know when I can come by, be by myself to get some essentials, and leave. Let me know when you are out of the house so I can ransack it and go through everything.

As far as everything else goes, I ask that you please let me send the two cars I got from Hoss back to him. (Ugly Bob, and the '55 in the garage) They were gifts from him, and I would really appreciate if I could just give those two back to him. I'm going to need some collateral.

Also, I ask that you let me send the titles to Donnie and Juniors cars back to SC, and we not fight over those. They have value and I could use the money.

Those two cars have been a close part of my family since I was too little to remember, and it would just be wrong to seperate them from the family... You remember family, right? Family is sooooooooooooo important to me. I'm a good & decent family man. Don't forget that. I'm just not into our family. Besides, OW would look good riding in those cars next to me.


And if I can just keep the Toyota truck to have something to drive back and forth to work. Poor, poor pitiful me. Such a sacrifice I am making here. Besides, I know where your *buttons* are and I am going to play you like a violin.

All the rest you can either keep, sell, crush, or do as you see fit. Once I have taken the valuable cars, you can keep the crushable ones. See what a nice guy I am being here?

If you would allow me to, I could still try to sell some of them to recover some money to pay off the credit cards, etc, but that is up to you.. And it you don't sell some of our family stuff, I will abandon the debt and leave you to deal with it. The choice is yours, because I am a nice guy, remember?

If you'll agree to this, in exchange, i'll liquidate my stock money, and give you the biggest portion of it. You trust me, right? I would never lie to you or try to manipulate you ..... ever!!! Scout's honor!


There should be roughly $6,500 in there before the taxes and penalties, and if I could keep maybe 10% or so of it to get by with, you can have the rest towards bills. Because, I am leaving the bills, but taking the cars of value. You understand.


Also, i'll continue to direct deposit half of my check into your account, keeping just enough to live on and get by with until the divorce is final. Scout's honor! Cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye if I am lying. TRUST me, babe.

I don't think I'm asking too much, (because I know how to make myself look generous when I am on the take) and though I know you are really upset and mad right now (that's why I think I can bamboozle you more easily), I do NOT want to talk about this in person, or on the phone, because that would be treating you like a human being, and right now you are nothing more than someTHING I need to manipulate so I can live out my fantasy consequence-free!!!.

I know our conversations will just turn into arguments because you will have an opinion I don't want to hear,

and that will not be good for either of us now, especially me..

We just need to settle this and move on. And by moving on, I mean you sacrifice everything you've come to love and rely on and I walk away with my floozy, not ever having to hear how heartbroken you are, so I can pretend I am a good guy.

I cannot let go of what I've done to you, and I definitely want to let it go, which is why I cannot face the truth of your heartbreak. That might take the luster off of my good guy self image. Why can't you just go away and leave me everything. Wouldn't that be easier??? PLEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZE !!!

and you DO deserve better. And by better, I mean better than keeping the expensive cars we collected as a couple.

I am really sorry this all worked out this way, because things are not my fault. They are your fault, naturally. I am sorry you ruined things.I never ruin things because I am a good guy,

but like I told you last night, I've finally realized that this was about me, not you. Me being selfish and so immature I can't face my WIFE. But, I am a good guy anyway.


I'm the one that will have to answer for this in the long run, so let's just let this go, and not do anymore damage to each other than has already been done..And by "damage" I mean .... facing the truth of the matter and me facing consequences.

I will await your reply... In my protective nice guy bubble.

Here is my advice:

Radio silence.
Allow him to get angrier and angrier in texts and emails. Frustrate him with silence.

KEEP EVERY MESSAGE in a special file. You may need it.

If he wants something, he will need to face you like a man.

If he does show up, you SMILE, you are mostly QUIET.
You give the briefest of brief NEUTRAL responses.
You keep a calm relaxed facial expression (practice in the mirror) and you never allow your body language to betray Plan A.

You remember these .....
"I'm still thinking this over."
"I have not decided."
"Thanks for your input."
"Do you think that is best for both of us?"
etc etc etc

NEVER explain your actions.
If you need to .... say
"I'm confused."
"I'm in pain."
"I'm working to understand."
"I'm in shock and need time."

Put his "personal crap" in a very nice bag. Like a sports bag. Hand it over to him, in person.

Now, the most important advice ~~~> CHANGE THE LOCKS ON THE HOUSE. Do not forget to secure the garage. New locks. Change the access code.
Take the pink slips to every vehicle and give them to a trusted family member to hold. Don't leave them in the house. Or, get a bank security box and put important stuff in there. If you have WH's passport or birth certificate, stash those away as well.

See how busy you are about to be.

You dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee.

NICE as pie in person .... busy as a beaver when he's not expecting that.

And for fun .... do you REALLY think he has not BRUSHED HIS TEETH since he left?
Is his beloved used toothbrush gold-plated or something? Encrusted with diamonds maybe?

Take the toothbrush and scrub the shower corners with it.
Then, put it back on the holder.
SMILE, you are going to be fine. I PROMISE.
There will be tough awful times ahead, but you will be fine.

From "The art of war" thread ........

Make sure that

1. You remove anything of value that you don't want him to take--jewelry, guns, your family heirlooms, etc.

2. Someone is in that house watching him as he gathers his toothbrush.

3. Dry off his toothbrush after cleaning the shower with it. Don't want to give that away!

Oh, Pepper-that made me laugh. Thanks!

And I think you're absolutely right. He did say I could have one valuable car, but of course, we still owe $26,000 on that one.

It is funny and it is also TRUE.

Lew .... It is plausible that OW may be afraid of you being alone with your WH. OW are famous for being insecure. WH's reluctance to see you in person may be WH obeying orders! Would not be the first time.

And Lew .....

This comment is a huge red


Now, why would he need to be alone in the house?
He's sneaky.

Remember .... make ZERO replies or comments to his texts and emails.
If he calls you, offer to meet him for coffee.
If he says "No." You respond. "OK. Let me know when that is possible. I've got things to do. Talk later. By honey." END THE CALL there.

You are in Plan A.
No fighting or arguing.
Your self control will empower you and frustrate him.
EXCELLENT !!!

I definitely like the idea of changing the locks. That gives me some control back. If I don't do that, he'll just wait until I go to work and come on over.

Remember, it's no longer WH's rodeo .... it's yours.
See an attorney ASAP. Know exactly what the legal perameters are.
DO NOT ASK THE ATTORNEY ABOUT CHANGING THE LOCKS. Just do it. You're worried about break-in and home invasion robberies, right? Send an email to one of your friends that says you are worried. (Call her first to set her straight) But put your legitimate safety concerns IN WRITING.

If WH gets MAD about the locks, you know he's trying to sneak in.

In person or on the phone, you reply:

"I need to keep myself safe now that you have left my home."

Do not reply to anything unless it is by phone or in person.

Call it "my home" not our house.

You are in PLAN A.
It is not necessary for you to enjoy or like everything you will be doing.
Keep your eye on the prize.

Your marriage might be salvageable, but not if you lose control.

Keep your "Taker" happy while in Plan A. Not with unhealthy food, but with other things you enjoy. Reading? Writing? Art? Craft? Friends? Dance? Exercise? Pedicure? New hair color?

Plan A is a P.L.A.N. not always something pleasant.

I hadn't thought about that. I hadn't thought about my "Taker" at all. Right now all I want to do is lay on the couch and cry. But my friends are inviting me to come over to their houses and things like that. I'll definitely take them up on those offers. I just haven't reached the point where I WANT to enjoy myself yet. Does that make sense? Maybe I'm just depressed too. Part of me wishes I could just be so angry that I wouldn't hurt anymore. But the other part doesn't even want to feel better unless it's from WH coming out of his fog, seeing the error of his ways, and coming home to me. I do realize that it won't happen soon; in fact it may never happen at all. It's all just so new to me that I'm still grieving. It's going to take some time for me to come to terms with this situation as well. I WILL make every effort to follow the advice you guys have been giving me. I know an attorney, I am changing my locks, etc. Keep me in your prayers that I will stay strong and do the right thing (over, and over, and over again!).

Lew I am so glad to see Pep's wing over you.

I remember when I was there

You get a good giggle while getting taught how to manage the unmanageable.

And it lasts. Since I Plan A'd my H in the style of Pep, no one has dared mess with me.

The best Pep trick is to say very little and let everyone else spin in panic.

I'll make you a deal. Cry all you want, just not on the couch. You are allowed to cry while you walk. That's what I did. I went to the local park with a walking track. I muttered and cried my way around the track until I was emotionally spent and/or my legs gave out .... whichever came first. Then I went home, showered and cleaned up my house. Organize your closet while you cry. Mop your kitchen floor while you cry.

The couch cryer is pathetic. The active cryer is working things out !!!

Plan A rules must be followed! Self care is important. That's why I included it in my Carrot/Stick link (below). Self care gives you the right to take care of and love YOU. You are important. You matter.

You do not have to want to enjoy yourself to get yourself active.
Being in Plan A requires you do all sorts of things that you may not want to do.

I would not just change the locks, most husbands aren't going to have a difficult time breaking in, which they can legally do if you are not legally separated (their name is usually on the mortgage or rental agreement). I would also employ the use of a security company, complete with code, something that sets an alarm off, enough to startle the daylights out of him!

So when I go to the attorney, should I go ahead and get legally separated, or not? I'm conflicted about that. . .on one hand, it could possibly protect me from anything he might do, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem very "Plan A". What do you guys think?

Did you see this?
Get your legal preparations in line.

I recommend doing under the toilet seat as well.

First on the agenda is changing those locks. BTW - any relatives or close friends that you can invite to stay over a few days?

Locks are changed, I did that today. I've had people coming to stay with me for at least part of the day, but I've been sending them home at night so I have some time to myself to process. I have a number of people who will come running if I feel concerned. All I have to do is pick up the phone.

My friends and family have been INCREDIBLY supportive (and you guys have too). That makes this easier to bear. I WILL make it through this. I WILL be ok with or without him. If he never comes out of his fog, I will at least have the assurance that I did everything I could on my side.

good girl! i totally agree with pep, only i'm a real witch. i would scrub the shower AND the whole dang toilet bowl (after a visit, of course), then hand over his personal stuff with a SMILE!

remember, plan a is carrot AND STICK. the separation agreement is the STICK. YOU are the CARROT.

Yes, I would pursue any legal avenues for protecting yourself financially be it filing for a separation or a divorce.

You can do a Plan A or B independent of what you do legally.

Have you read the carrot/stick link in my sig line?

Top to bottom?

Disallow financial ruin/risks when possible.

You just do not know what financial shenanigans a wayward might pull. We've seen a BW fall to pieces because her WH spent a fortune on crap for the OW on the joint credit card !!!!!! Trips to Vegas (many). Jewelry. etc.

Just ask the attorney if he/she recommends anything in particular to protect you from WH's spending monies on his affair.

Plan A is also about consequences.

You are awesome!

Lew, I want to be clear.

Plan A The toothbrush:
Buy WH a spanking new one and surprise WH with that. Use the old one however you see fit.

Plan A the attorney:
Mostly a fact-finding mission. You need to know what may be ahead.
Laws vary from state to state. Learn what applies to your situation.
Ask about a "no-fault" state vs a state where you can name adultery as a cause.
Find out if a separation is adventageous for you.
Also find out what will happen if WH files for divorce.
In some cases, it is an advantage for the BS to file first because then the BS has the ability to drag the process out for a long time as the affair runs it's course.
Bring in a list of questions.
Debt
Health care insurance
Car insurance
House hold expenses
Savings
Tax refund
etc etc etc
Make sure you tell the attorney you actually want to save the marriage but cover your backside at the same time.

OKay?

Lew, take a look at all the pink slips of the various vehicles.
Are they registered as Mr AND Mrs?
Are they registered as Mr OR Mrs?
Or, something else?

Regarding the vehicle on which you still owe 36 grand .... Is it's current value greater than or lesser than 36 grand?

DITTO!!!

Some of them are in my name, and some are in his. The one we owe money on ($26,000 not $36,000 btw), is worth $28-$30 grand probably. Anyone interested in a 1996 Toyota Supra? 2JZ Twin-Turbo! ;-)

This part sure is hard. . . Dealing with his anger and resentment and just waiting. I hate waiting. :-(

What are you waiting for? To go into plan b?

He's in the post-exposure anger stage. I'm sure I'll be waiting a long time. Waiting for him to either come out of his fog or force me to divorce him somehow. I'm just having a bad day, I guess. Still mourning the loss of the man I love so much and the marriage that made us both so happy for a few years anyway.

Don't feel like your waiting. How is your Plan A looking? Have you tried talking to him? Does he know what it will take for you to remain in the marriage - NC, transparency, honesty, EP's, UA time, and a commitment to a program for recovery?

~RQ

The beauty of MB is that you are no longer sitting around waiting. You have a Plan and that gives you control.


Waiting gives him control. Do not give him control.


If you are in Plan A right now, then start getting your Plan B ready for when "you decide" that you are ready to push that button. Work your plan with no expectations except how you can control your own life and your own recovery.

Just a quick comment...

Maybe you could boot the cars? I wonder if he could show up on the property with a tow truck and remove a car (or two or three). Absent a filing, seems he can enter the property and will and tow "his" cars wherever he pleases. But maybe not if they are booted.

In the alternative, get some of those "Clubs", and put them on the steering wheels of the cars he's most likely to try to take. That should stop him from driving one off the property in the middle of the night himself.


Sorry you are going through this.

Mr. W

lew, i don't know how you are financially off, but can you put the vehicles in a storage shed (you know, like a warehouse)?

and you're not waiting. let him be angry. keep up that plan a for now.

is it pep's line? "how was your day honey? i'd be happy to discuss our M when you have ended your a. want a cookie?"

Well, he will text me or email me from time to time wanting something out of the house, but refuses to see me in person or talk on the phone. I left a letter in his stuff he came and got a few days ago outlining what he would have to do to come back. He just doesn't want to come back, at least not yet. He says he's going to come get 3 of the cars this week. I really can't stop him, he already has the keys, and I can't afford to do much with my surgery in a few weeks (I have to pay up front since it's elective) and attorney fees. If he screws me over, I will be ok, and he will have to deal with his own conscience-assuming he still has one. I assume that's why he refuses to meet me in person or talk on the phone. He's trying to avoid the guilt.

What sort of surgery?

Was the "at least not yet" was in his response?

You'll need to dissuade him of the thinking that you'll always be there waiting to take him back. Know what I mean?

There was nothing preventing my estranged WH from just taking my pickup (which was mine before we married and I paid for it) so my son installed a hidden kill switch on it...worked like a charm!

Remember you aren't waiting, you are just working your three week Plan A like a rockstar. It is YOUR plan to give it three weeks.

If he's too dishonest and uncommitted to man up for his marriage in that timescale = his problem.

He still gets a chance to turn it around in Plan B, but it will heal you no matter what.

Protect those cars!

LapBand. I was trying to loose weight before I knew or marriage was on the rocks because I knew it bothered him. It may have been too late to benefit him, but it will still benefit me!!!

Was the "at least not yet" was in his response?

You'll need to dissuade him of the thinking that you'll always be there waiting to take him back. Know what I mean? [/quote

No, he said "divorce is what's best". I'm just hoping, I guess.

Yeah divorce is not as easy as he might think, giving up is never easy.

He isn't quitting a bad job, or even just a habit.

He will have a chance to turn around in plan b

lew, can you keep the pink slips?