I've lurked here since the first D-Day almost a year ago. My wife and I have had a troubled marriage from the start. While we lived together before marriage we broke up and she went and slept with her ex-bf. We reconciled and were married less than a year later. We then moved into a house and had our first child. I was not a good father in the beginning and she began to lose trust in me and lose faith. She told me she felt like she was cheating on her ex with me. Again we worked it out or so I thought until after our daughter was born. I lost my job and we lost our home, during this time she decided she needed to go to see her ex and see if there was anything there. When she returned she said she realized her place was at home with me and the kids. I made her write her feelings down because I didn't want to go through this again. (I wish I knew where that letter to herself went). Fast forward a while later and she says she doesn't like me, then she doesn't love me, then D-Day 1. We went to counseling but all we ever discussed was how I was hurt by the affair and how to fix things that were wrong with me. She was unhappy because I insisted on NC. Shortly after she started it back up again because he made her feel happy. She eventually ended it on her own terms. I thought things were OK and resolved to return to counseling with her in the New Year even though she still said she didn't love me. We even decided on New Year's day to leave the Christmas lights on the house so we wouldn't have to put them back up next year. On 1/6 she told me she wanted me to print the divorce papers so she could file them as soon as possible. A week later I found something left over from PA2. I got drunk and made a fool of myself instead of talking to her about it because I didn't think she'd be honest. I asked her to take a week away from the family and exposed PA1 and what I had found to everyone. 2 days later we had D-Day2 where I learned of PA2(with a co-worker) and that PA3 had begun. D-Day2 was easier than D-Day1 because it was the first time she's been honest with me in a year. Much pain and heartache ensued because I disclosed everything again, threatened to take the kids away, and accused her of being mentally ill. I let her come home and we have been discussing what to do about custody and how to file and where to live. She actually has had him offer to be her roomie. Meanwhile I'm having to watch her cry because all she wants to do is be with him when I hurt her. She was crying this afternoon and I told her to go to him because I can't bear to see her hurting. I love my wife and don't want to break up our family. I don't want to divorce. I still believe in the power of Love and marriage. Do I have any hope left? What should I do? Or should I move this to the divorce forum?

Mijunleigh,

Did you expose the OM with to wives or girlfriends or families? You've allowed your WW to get away with murder and this has to end, no more appeasement.

It would help if you cleaned up your posting into paragraphs, it will make it easier for people to read and respond.

God Bless
Gamma

the OM is single. Lives with his parents, has no car, and makes little to no money. One of his family is the manager at work and my WW is the asst. mgr. He is a lowly associate. They started spending time together because she gave him rides home.

Sorry for the readability ran out of time to edit the original post.

After some time you can't edit it, I don't know the length of time.

Due to the OM's situation I think he is a prime candidate for exposure -- living with one's parents...well...if your son lived with you and you found out, you would be in a position to tell him to either shape up or he'd be finding a new place to live.

And that is your advantage. Expose to his parents and the affair may very well end that day!

Mijunleigh,

If I understand correctly there are 3 OM? or 2? Is the OM much younger than your WW? Is your WW still working with OM and OM family?

Just copy the original text and then edit and repost it.

God Bless
Gamma

I've lurked here since the first D-Day almost a year ago.

My wife and I have had a troubled marriage from the start. While we lived together before marriage we broke up and she went and slept with her ex-bf. We reconciled and were married less than a year later.

We then moved into a house and had our first child. I was not a good father in the beginning and she began to lose trust in me and lose faith. She told me she felt like she was cheating on her ex with me. Again we worked it out or so I thought until after our daughter was born. I lost my job and we lost our home, during this time she decided she needed to go to see her ex and see if there was anything there. When she returned she said she realized her place was at home with me and the kids. I made her write her feelings down because I didn't want to go through this again. (I wish I knew where that letter to herself went).

Fast forward a while later and she says she doesn't like me, then she doesn't love me, then D-Day 1. We went to counseling but all we ever discussed was how I was hurt by the affair and how to fix things that were wrong with me.

She was unhappy because I insisted on NC. Shortly after she started the PA(PA2) back up again because he made her feel happy. She eventually ended it on her own terms.

I thought things were OK and resolved to return to counseling with her in the New Year even though she still said she didn't love me. We even decided on New Year's day to leave the Christmas lights on the house so we wouldn't have to put them back up next year. On 1/6 she told me she wanted me to print the divorce papers so she could file them as soon as possible.

A week later I found something left over from PA2. I got drunk and made a fool of myself instead of talking to her about it because I didn't think she'd be honest. I asked her to take a week away from the family and exposed PA1 and what I had found to everyone. 2 days later we had D-Day2 where I learned of PA2 and that PA3 (with a co-worker) had begun.

D-Day2 was easier than D-Day1 because it was the first time she's been honest with me in a year. Much pain and heartache ensued because I disclosed everything again, threatened to take the kids away, and accused her of being mentally ill. I let her come home and we have been discussing what to do about custody and how to file and where to live. She actually has had him offer to be her roomie.

Meanwhile I'm having to watch her cry because all she wants to do is be with him when I hurt her. She was crying this afternoon and I told her to go to him because I can't bear to see her hurting. I love my wife and don't want to break up our family. I don't want to divorce. I still believe in the power of Love and marriage. Do I have any hope left? What should I do? Or should I move this to the divorce forum?

You gave her the blessing to go rut in her disgusting pig pen?

That is the WORST thing you could do for your marriage right now!

First of all, you need to expose. There is no getting around that, and NO, it will not end the marriage. It will make her angry but she would rather keep her filthy deeds hidden than admit them to the world.

EXPOSE. Now. Take charge of your marriage and fight for your wife -- if you can recover she will be grateful that you did not roll over and let her go to OM.

3 PAs with 2 different guys. PA2 was a continuation of the first and with the same guy. OM2/PA3 is a couple of years younger. He's about 25ish.

She said she wants me to meet him and if I talk to him I'd really like him. This is important to he because she says he's gonna be around for a while. She even hinted he would be bringing his nephew to our son's b-day party and he invited her and the kids on a family trip to Disney. HA!!! They've know each other for a couple of months at most!

I'm just amazed how deep the fog is. And hoping there are people here who have been this close to the end and come back.

She's been "out of love" with me for 2 years. And she stuck around this long because her first OM was actually encouraging her to work it out with me.

What about exposing to her corporate folks? There is a good chance she would lose her job and so would he and his family member.

Mijunleigh,

lets translate for you.

She said she wants me to meet him and if I talk to him I'd really like him. This is important to he because she says he's gonna be around for a while.

The first OM really taught her well how to cake eat.

She even hinted he would be bringing his nephew to our son's b-day party and he invited her and the kids on a family trip to Disney. HA!!! They've know each other for a couple of months at most!

Your children need to be told immediately that your WW is engaging in ADULTERY which is something married people should never do and is very bad for families. Tell WW the only way OM is appearing at your sons bday party is hanging from the ceiling as a human pinyata with the kids given numchucks.

She's been "out of love" with me for 2 years. And she stuck around this long because her first OM was actually encouraging her to work it out with me.

The first OM wanted you to pay the bills while he got to be with your WW whenever he wanted or whenever his current GF dumped his butt. Did you expose OM1, he should be on your hit list.

God Bless
Gamma

Yes expose to OM's parents and your WW's job and WW's family.

Does OM have Facebook?

Contact at work with her affair partner means she would have to quit anyway. If she loses her job so be it. And if he does, who cares? Maybe he'll stop messing with married women!

OM should not be coming anywhere near you and your children's celebrations. Also, would you not need to agree to a trip to Disney for your children? If your WW decides she still wants to go, she is free to do so, but you shouldn't allow her to take YOUR children.

How old are the kids? You should expose to them if they are over 4 years old as well.

Our DD turned 4 in Nov. DS will be 6 in Feb.

When I was typing up my original post my wife asked what I was doing. I said "posting on a marriage forum". He response "they're all just gonna say kick her to the curb and go for full custody." I knew she would be wrong. I'm glad that I was right.

I disagree; given the present circumstances, I think you should go for full custody. By suggesting that the children interact with her adultery partner, your wife is demonstrating reckless disregard for the children's emotional health. And the idea of losing custody should scare the crap out of her, yet she is so detached that she mentions it flippantly. Your wife is not in her right mind. She isn't making decisions that are in your children's best interests, so the children should be protected from her.

Of course her fog is deep - she has never been faithful!

Wth! She wants u to be friends with the person she's sleeping with? And u are ok with this? Grow a pr and tell her the next time she leaves don't bother coming bk! If she does go, pack her clothes!

I agree but go one step further. Who is the breadwinner?! If its you cut her off financially when she leaves. Pack her stuff up and have it waiting for her at the door. Cancel insurance on the vehicle. If its in your name take the plates. After that is done change the locks with your landlords permission if your renting. It's simple women respect men they love. Right now your not being respected so you need to show her as the Alpha wolf in her life that your barking got bite! Man up or let her ho down your choice!

Have you exposed her affair? To your children also?

Are you going for FULL custody?

Exposed to all but OM parents. Not sure how i'm going to accomplish that, but i'll find a way. I have asked her to stop the A because it's the right/respectful thing to do.

I am thinking of filing the papers Monday for shared custody reserving the right to choose where the children reside. This means they will be home with me every night.

File for full and go to that POSOM house. Get all the phone calls texts emails printed out and hand deliver it. Did you expose to her work?

Your wife's emotional abuse is extending from you to the kids, as evidenced in her wanting to them to develop a relationship with the POSOM who is destroying their lives. I would file for 100% custody, giving her no more than supervised visitation until she comes to her senses.

I have not had access to this information since PA1. She shut me out of all of her stuff and changed her cell provider and phone. She is suspicious if I even touch her phone.

I do not know exactly where OM lives to expose to his parents.

I am afraid to expose to her work; because while I am the primary breadwinner, I am not sure I can make ends meet on my pay. It's about a 75/25 split with little fat to cut in the budget.

Should I be working on eliminating Love Busters and meeting any of her needs at this time? Or am I looking at full on Plan B/divorce as the only option?

if the affair does not end there will be no splitting bills anymore, but splitted households. If you think her stopping working is expensive, start thinking about that. The best way to avoid divorce is to stop letting her walk all over you.

Are you even sure the children are yours? You might want to think about a paternity test.

And don't be scared or timid waywards expect that. Expose at her job and look up POSOM on FB or something. A little digging and you can find out. Might want to get a GPS to put on her car. That would also give you an address

nothing on OM's FB. WW keeps putting up messages of inspiration and empowerment. going to confront OM now and expose.

God grant me strength and take away my fear.

Well exposure is done. His family knew. They don't have a problem with the relationship existing because she has told them it's over for us. They are just not allowed be physical while at the home. What kind of morals do these people have!?!

So what is the next step? I was planning on filing the papers tomorrow. Should I do that and go on with Plan B or do I need to do some Plan A first? Do I try to talk to her?

If I don't file soon she will file on Friday and I want her on the defensive not myself.

If you know she will file, then you want to file first. The first to file usually does have the advantage, and that's what you need here. Besides, you can cancel the divorce at any time while trying to recover.

Did you expose to only her family? What about friends?

Sadly, a lot of people just want to pray to God and hope he changes things, not realizing that God works through people....THEY are his change (this is for if you're religious).

I agree KR that's where I am now. If your willing to wait for recovery you can also drag it out.

I exposed to my family, hers, his. I'm terrified to take it any further.


I don't know how I'll be able to drag out a divorce. She's wanted it for so long. We went to the bookstore today and she wanted to get me a book on being a divorced father.

Maybe I should just file, go to Plan B, and do some PR while I let their fling dissolve.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel. I know you can't see it yet, but it's there. Just keep going. Once step at a time. You are doing great.

You must expose to more people -- ANYONE who may have influence over her, or him. You CAN do this!

Yes. Better to expose all at once for maximum impact. I exposed WH 5 mths after we had separated when I found MB. The effect was better than I expected. He had alienated himself from friends and family. I included his phone number in my exposure email and quite a few of his friends phoned him, which I think helped him defog a little. Don't underestimate the power of positive peer pressure.

At the end of the day, people will find out anyway.

But what if everything she says is true? She really doesn't love me and there's no hope that she ever will again? Then I will have alienated the one who was my best friend. I know she is no longer my best friend, but she was.

And will this look bad when I go to court for custody?

So many questions and moving so fast. I'm a planner by nature not a decider.

It's simple your being timid. Forget the what ifs and what now. She is disrespecting you and your children and you just huffing and puffing while she laughing at you with POSOM. Show her that these crappy decisions have consequences.

Look at it this way. Your wife will thank you later for outing her if she has any moral compass in her. What kind of friend treats another friend with such disrespect?... If she doesn't come around after exposure she isn't such a great friend as you think. You really have nothing to lose here and everything to gain.

The seasoned vets have said that they aren't going to waste their time posting to someone who simply won't follow the advice given. If you don't act you'll lose a valuable resource.

Expose to friends far and wide. Anyone who will have influence over your WW. Do it today. Don't half @ss it. If you're going to follow the program you might as well be all in.

I am going to the courthouse now to file the divorce papers before she does.

I am asking for shared custody with the right to choose where the children live.

Tonight I am going to post my letters to FB and her employer for approval from the group. And after she goes to bed the tsunami will strike. I fully expect her to explode and leave when that time comes.

Thank you all for your encouragement. I will not be shamed in my own house by someone I love any longer. I am better than that.

Also, read the exposure thread. Wish I knew how to post that. DO NOT FIGHT ANGER WITH ANGER. Cooler heads prevail, only a fool gives full vent to his anger. Don't let her turn you into a monster. Stay calm and let her know I am doing this to protect our marriage. Below is a quote from someone else's thread by Mortarman. Read it and live it:

Shescrazy...just read your story. Everything here looks typical...nothing new. And in many ways, as others have told you...yoi have done good. So, the attaboys are deserved for those.

But I am going to do to you what several good people did to me when I was going through my mess ten years ago. Put your helmet on because I am going to smack you around a bit. Okay?

First, as you know, your wife has left all sanity behind right now. She is in the fog of an affair. Now, you have kids about the same ages mine were when it happened to me. Do you think your kids need TWO parents flopping around like fish on the deck of the ship?

Look, we understand the feelings that come with all of this. And unfortunately, no one ever gave us a marriage roadmap before we got married. So, many of the things you are doing are natural and expected. But guess what? You are the MAN of the house. Unfortunately, you dont get to do the EXPECTED.

Your family NEEDS you to be the sane person...the rock. Unmoving, unchanging. There is so much change going on right now. Your kids feel unsafe. And to be honest, they dont even trust you...as you flop around from wanting the marriage and talking about divorce. No one can feel safe in that environment...INCLUDING your wife!!!

When I said above that your FAMILY needs you to be the rock, that includes your wife! Look, you want to know who is the MOST scared right now? It is your wife. She has made a huge mess. As you said, everyone has turned against her, including her kids. She has backed herself into a corner, and she has no idea how to get out of it.

And here, the one person that actually does care about her...is her family...and you go from saying "I love you" one minute, and then talking about taking her kids and leaving her with nothing the next. I know she made these stupid decisions. I know she continues to do insane things. But you MUST ask yourself RIGHT NOW...do you love her? Do you want your marriage to continue?

If the answer is no, then call your lawyer and end this now.

If the answer is yes, then being the rock means you are going to have to steady your hand on the steering wheel of this ship.

No more talk of divorce. When she talks about it, say "I do marriage, my lawyer does divorce. If you want to talk about marriage and our family...I am right here. If you want to talk about divorce, call my attorney." Stop THREATENING! Sure, you should be getting your waterfowl coaxially aligned! But you do that in silence. You prepare yourself for what you HOPE wont happen. But EVERYTIME you tell her what you will do to her...it comes as a threat to her...and she moves further away from you.

I know she is hurting you. But you are hurting her. Now, will YOU be the sane one and stop this cycle of hurt? Love means NOT giving your wife what she DESERVES and instead giving her what she NEEDS!

I saw a few pages back you wanted to know how to know when to go to Plan B. First off, you need to do a stellar Plan A. Plan B will NEVER work without it. But, let me help you with this a little. When I was in my mess, I promised myself that I would do the following (and I did everyday): I woke up early every morning before the kids woke up. I walked into their rooms, sat beside their beds and looked at them. I spent about ten minutes with each of them. Then I went back to my room and asked myself...am I ready to end this? As long as the answer was NO, then I went on with that day and my plan.

When the answer is YES, well, then you call the lawyer...you go dark to her...and you leave it all in God's hands.

I could post a very long post here. But you have talked to Steve. The Harley's books and principles are here to read (or but and read). And on these threads are countless stories JUST LIKE YOURS. And many successes.

I dont know if you are a Christian or not, but if you are...you need to know that God has called you to love your wife like Jesus loves us. What kind of love is that? It is the kind that loves her even though she is actively hurting you. We were killing Jesus, yet He loved us. This is no different!

No matter how this all ends, your path is the same. You must earn your way out of the marriage. You must do everything you can to rescue your family. All of it! If your wife choses to stay in the burning building, you cannot force her to leave. But I can tell you...almost all women want to be rescued, whether they want to admit it our not.

So, come here and vent and lose it sometimes. But with your family...you MUST maintain control. Time to fully man up.

I filed the divorce papers. This was the hardest thing I've ever done. But by no means am I giving up. When I got home I couldn't speak and shut down for a while until I read what tranquildark posted/reposted. It was inspirational!

I sat down at the table and ate dinner and talked to my wife about how her day went. After the kids were in bed I explained that I had filed for divorce (I'm doing it pro se unless she hires an attorney). I gave her a copy of the papers and explained the next steps to her.

Then I told her that I am not speaking about the divorce again. I told her I loved her and even though we have the papers we are still married until it's final. I told her my only goal at this point is maintaining the integrity of our family. I explained that when she told me about PA1 it was her choice to end it not mine or the counselor's. It was her choice to start it back up and it was her choice to start this new one. I told her that I DEMAND she stop her current affair because these things are tearing our family apart. I told her she has the choice to make and that I know we can make this work if we both work together. I tried to explain how when she's in an affair she's not available and open to reconnecting with me and that is why the 2nd affair started. I told her I'm going to be strong for her and for our family. I told her there was a reason she listened to her first lover when he was "encouraging" her to work it out with me. We need to explore what that reason was.

I know that if she was truly done she would have filed for divorce herself long ago. There is a spark there somewhere I just have to dig it out.

Praying for strength.

You have done what many are afraid to do. Just remember -- if your wife meets all of your conditions, you can always cancel the divorce.

Hold to what you have said. Never talk divorce. Be pleasant. And Plan A. Be good, be wonderful, but do not keep her back from the consequences that she will be facing.

But you seem to know that, so...

x2

I asked the clerk if she had ever have anyone faint at her desk before. She looked at me startled and said "No why?" and my knees buckled. Thank God and taxpayers for granite desktops.

Nice work nothing more needs to be said plan a. Glad I could help.

I appreciate the kudos, but I forgot to mention she went right back over to her OMs house to "talk" about what I said to her. She came home and didn't say anything except goodnight to me and that we could talk tomorrow.

I bet I can tell you what she said.

"He's so meaaaan! And controlling! He said I had to stop seeing you if I wanted to stay with him! "

Try and be as pleasant as possible.

here are my letters:

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxx has recently asked me for a divorce, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I was saddened to have discovered one of the reasons is because she has been developing a relationship with a co-worker named xxxx who is her subordinate. She escalated the affair the day she asked for the divorce and she wishes carry on her affair without my interference.

She refuses to end the affair. I believe our marriage can recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my wife, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. It is possible for us to be happy together, but the affair must end before she can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair and work together to keep our family whole. Please support her in doing the right thing for our family. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,
To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

xxxx and xxxx are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place in the workplace at your xxxx. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company time. If you investigate further you will find that xxxx is also the brother of the Manager. I have been informed by my wife that Manager was approached and consented to the relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,


Dear friend of xxxx,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should be aware that xxxx is having an affair with my wife, xxxx. We have been married for 6 years and our anniversary is next month. They began their affair at work and have brought it to my attention early this month.

I would ask that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade him to leave my wife alone. You should also watch your own wives around him because he is no friend to marriage.

Thank you,

Sounds great.

Who is on your exposure list?

When do you plan to do this?

Everybody on his FB and everybody I can get to on hers. Going to do it tonight. We talked last night so I didn't get a chance.

Unless she tells me tonight she's going to end it that is. But I'm not going to make it a penalty for her. It just simply is what it is and took me time to get it all prepared and in the right mind set.

Talked to one of my co-workers about what was going on because I was a little short with him yesterday. When he heard I confronted the OM in his home with his mother present and calmly told him to back off he flipped out. He couldn't believe the guts that took to do. Honestly I can't either.

What do you mean by "Unless she tells me..."? You should not give her any warning about the exposure, and nothing she says or does should prevent or delay the exposure.

I guess I am regardless. That way they can't go back to their dirty little secret lives?

Yes, and exposure is also to gain support for you.... So do it regardless of what she says today, and WITHOUT telling her of your plans!!

You must not discuss this with your wife, and you must do it regardless of what she says or does. Why are you putting this off? There is no logical reason for you to wait until she is asleep tonight. If you have time to post on this board today, then you have time to do the exposure today. Just do it!

I concur, don't make it an ultimatum. Just do it, like Nike!

I caved on full exposure. We had a long talk last night. She was really open about her feelings. She cried in front of me which she rarely does.

She told me about how she gave everything she had for 6 years to try and make it work, and all I did was take. She is right about that. She said when she thought about marriage to me she always knew I would be her 1st husband. She told me her soul was empty of any feeling for me, and she doesn't like me, or even hate me, because she has nothing left to give me. It was actually good to hear her say these things because I knew she was opening up.

We sat and looked at a box of stuff from when we were dating and talked about how we felt then. I asked her if this is where she thought we would be back then. I talked about how we could still recover from this and be a strong whole family again in time. I asked her to open herself to the possibility of being my friend. She is so hurt right now by me, and my waffling has contradicted myself so much. One minute I tell her I love her the next I call her a liar and selfish.

I told her I'm still willing to work on this. We are going to go to intensive counseling to try and heal the pain caused by my actions and her choices over the last 2 weeks. She says she has no try left, but I see this as hopeful.

She is going to stay home more often instead of running to OM when she feels hurt. She is backing off of him a little for now, but will still see him at work and some. She did keep her word to stay home tonight. I don't even think she texted him before going to bed.

I'm going into full on Plan A and will find out what her needs are first thing. Sex and Affection are certainly off the table for now but i'm going to focus on the others and maybe the others will open up. We start with conversation and domestic support and activities. We agreed to talk to each other for a little bit every night even though she can't stand to be near me. She is going to live in the office, and we are going to make this home a place she feels comfortable being.

more to come later....

I caved on full exposure.

Irresolute, ineffective, and without positive expectation!

Um... Plan A calls for exposure! She playing you like a fiddle and your letting her. Basically you said this: "Go sleep with him and me because I don't respect myself as a person. Your right you laying on your back for another man is all my fault."

EXPOSE have some dignity and pride. You gave her a pass to cake eat without any consequences. Please read the Plan A thread and don't pick and choose what you want to do follow it exactly! Also, if you don't expose people won't take you serious and hop off your thread. Her pity party was designed to get you to be complacent. WS are like drug addicts, she will do anything to get her fix and you are enabling bad behavior. Nothing will change unless you change your approach. Plan A says to fix your faults she has with you all the while destroying the affair. Exposure is the best way to do that! She has no respect for you, your kids and herself. Most of all she has 0 respect for you therefore you will never fall back in love until you earn her respect and stand up to her selfish IB and affair.

Yes please. Have some self respect man! She is going to back off a little more.. just a little and you are satisfied with these crumbs. Cajones man get some! EXPOSE! What was the outcome of the exposure you have done so far?

We don't have sex. She won't let me touch her even in a friendly way. She doesn't want to be in the house with me. She is only staying because she doesn't want me to have the kids. I know my wife and I believe she has no feelings left for me. I am beginning to believe that if I go any further then she will never forgive me. If I expose more the affair may end, but I don't think I will keep my family whole.

Outrage and embarrasment on her part. She feels I have crossed a line and violated her privacy when I informed her parents and that I had no right to do so. She says I contradict myself when I tell her what she is doing is wrong and painful

His family and hers believe I need to let her go so she can be happy. They won't tell her to not have the affair even though they don't agree with it in principle. They ask why I would want to stay with someone who has wronged me so much.

My family supports my decision because they love me. They don't think it's a good idea, but they'll go along with it. They will support me no matter what regardless of their own feelings about it and they always have. They do not believe it would be wise to expose.

His family and hers believe I need to let her go so she can be happy...They ask why I would want to stay with someone who has wronged me so much.

EDIT

As far as urging you to "let her go so she can be happy", my suggestion is you "let her go" with the same attitude you "let go" some dog feces you've stepped into.

Barkeep, it's after 5pm somewhere in the world! Bourbon!

Even if you don't want to reconcile you should still expose! Not for revenge but because its the truth! Think about your children what are they learning through your lack of action and her infidelity?! I was like you but then I saw the light. She is happy maybe but your happiness shouldn't be sacrificed for hers. Trust me she isn't happy she just going through the motions that's all.

I just called and she's over with POSOM.

She can either come home and do what she knows is right and good.

Or she can get out and rut around at will.

I'm better than this.

Expose. Now.

Wowser. You DO deserve better than this. Everyone here has been telling you that, and you are the ONLY ONE who doesn't seem to believe it.

You need to stop listening to the wayward alien living in your house. She is no 'friend' to you and she is not 'opening up' to you. She is in a full on affair, addicted to her drug, rewriting history to make sure you think it is all your fault! She is withdrawn BECAUSE OF HER AFFAIR. And you are just enabling this, with the premise that enabling an addiction, and the withdraw that is its consequence, is going to SAVE your family? That doesn't even make rational sense.

You are doing everything wrong here, my friend. You are listening to the advice and opinion of an addicted wayward, familes that don't support your marriage, and your own family who has never saved a marriage, have they? Instead of taking the advice of Dr Harley himself, who has saved marriages wrought from infidelity for over 30 years, and the many people on these boards that have recovered their marriages because of this program.

You do deserve better. But you will get no more than you ask for yourself.

Apparently, you're not. If you were better than that, you would stop making empty threats. If you were better than that, you would protect your kids from their mother's destructive decisions and emotional abuse.

You can no longer use ignorance as an excuse for inaction. You know how to put an end to her affair, but you refuse. You are so afraid of your wife that you are letting her destroy your children's home. I hope you can afford all the counseling sessions your kids are going to need...

My parents have recovered from an affair and so has my brother. They all chose to do it because of their children and because a whole close family is the most important asset a person can have. This is why I want to repair my marriage. I don't like the choices she's made, I don't like the person she is being, and she is hurting me and my children. If the fog were lifted she might see reason.

I fear to expose because I believe we will enter a custody battle and I can't subject my children to living in her environment if I lose. I would rather kick her out of the house so I don't have to watch and the tension can be lifted.

So she's over the POSOM? but, let me guess not sure about you? Doesn't know if she will ever like/love you.

She is stringing you along because you just rock the boat barely enough to make her queazy. You need to really step it up right now. Expose to everyone and wake her up.

It may take changing the divorce papers to say full physical custody to wake her up. What she says today seems to have no conviction.

She is telling you her life is getting bumpy, step it up and really wake her up to her actions and SHOW everyone you mean business.
She needs to be knocked off that fence.
dan

WW played you like a door mat and got you to stop exposing.

Get back on the horse and finish exposing.

WW didn't agree to stop seeing and banging the OM only to cut it back.

What a deal you gave up exposing so the WW will cut it back with the OM. She didn't offer NC with the OM. WW got you to accept her still seeing the OM. Then you come back here all in a tither raging about how you found out as soon as your back was turned WW was over banging the OM again.

Unbelieveable.

Fear what. Your WW is going to keep banging the OM as the way things are going.

You can not throw her out of the house.

You exposing WW affair is not going to effect custody issues.

You are not following through on EXPOSURE because you are afraid. Period.

You are therefore ENABLING her adultery. Yep, you are.

Quit aiding and abetting her adulterous behaviour. Or quit complaining about it, as you are the assistant in her behaviour.

Catwhit is right. As long as you choose to tolerate this situation, you are your WW's accomplice. If you genuinely want your marriage to recover from your wife's adultery, you must stop enabling her to do it. This isn't rocket science. Either take action or kiss your marriage goodbye. Your choice.

So nobody here has ever had custody issues because of exposing their WS's affair? And in cases of affair who usually gets the kids while it's ongoing? I don't think she'll give him up before the final. I make more money and hope to get custody because that will enable me to provide a more stable home environment for the children. Is this a proper line of thinking?

Exposing my ex husband's affairs did not cause me to have custody issues. I have always had 100% custody of my kids.

STOP...ASKING...QUESTIONS...WHEN...YOU...HAVE...NOT...TAKEN...THE...ADVICE...ALREADY...PROVIDED!!!

Where the HELL is HFD? He played this, "Really? Well, what about..." game for three months!

Ill keep tracking your thread but I'm done with the advice you let this woman you love bang this POSOM and you called her and she there now?! Expose!

Are you going to expose?

Mjunleigh

I have noticed that recently there has been a high increase in BH on MB and they are all in the same boat as you, some stronger than you, some are more fed up than you and some are just frozen in fear and being walked all over and use this forum to waste time .

What I can say right now for certain is that the ONLY BHs making ANY progress are those who have exposed and are stopping their enabling behaviour.

You have 0% of success if you don't expose right now.
Nearly all the BH here are dads/family men and none of them that I know if have faced any issues with regards to custody because a judge tends to look at a cheating parent in a worse light than a parent who tried to save his family.

Look at the exposure letter, it is not written in a vindictive vicious tone, is it factual and seeks support from friends and family and is clearly laid out to show the intention of saving a family unit.

Please listen to people here, anything that comes out of your WW mouth right now is pure and utter garbage and not worth taking seriously, she is a wayward, WW rewrite the marital history, lie, manipulate and will step on anyone to get to their next fix of the OM.

For your kids sake I really hope you man up, expose and start fighting for your marriage instead of continuing to enable your WW affair.

Good luck

she's bargaining with me now. says she will stop seeing him if i give her custody of the kids.


we have an appointment with her IC a week from Tuesday to discuss things regarding the kids. i continue to take the stance that continuing the affair harms the children. i continue to improve myself and my parenting.

...says she will stop seeing him if i give her custody of the kids.

The skank is lying!

How do I know? Because she's talking!

You would be a fool to listen to something like that.

Look at it this way, if the papers are signed, and she still sees him, there is nothing you can do about it, because a clause like that is not going to be in any cour verdict.

If you want her to have shared cutody if she does not see OM, you can always voluntarily let her see the children more often, but I would never ever ever give her shared custody because of such a stupid reason. She is trying to play you like a fiddle. If you fall for that, you will swallow anything.

Also, the judge is not going to see that you exposed her afair.
He will see, that you asked a lot of people to help you save your marriage.

Asking other people for help and advice in saving your marriage from your wife's affair is a good thing. It shows that you are concerned about the welfare of the kids.

Just write a good exposure letter and bring it here. A loving exposure letter. You don't want to have this imaginal judge see a letter in which you state that your wife is a xxx. Just ask people to support you in saving your marriage and keeping the family intact.

My other point is, how do you feel about another man laying beside (or on top for that matter) your wife at this very moment?
Don't you have the least bit of rage in you? Can you imagine what they are doing right now? And you are letting him and her get away with it???????????????????

Really?

Will you lie in your bed this evening, knowing that you let your wife go to the OM and you are letting them have sex and all and you are not doing, really, really doing anything about it???

You can do better. Become a hero.
If someone in school would have broken into your locker and was proudly walking around with your new sneakers, the ones you paid for, yould your just have been silent and done nothing? Not even tell anyone?
Pray and work.

An exposure letter is a non issue regarding child custody, so stop using child custody as an excuse to avoid sending an exposure letter.

If you genuinely care about the negative impact on your kids, why do you continue enabling your wife to continue her affair?

Go for full physical custody with supervised visitation. Don't give away what you already have. She wants her OM, and the kids, and child support, and a place to live, and you to keep being NICE. Why? She got used to it being that way.

Expose to everyone you can with a letter asking for help to save your marriage from these affairs,plural.

Set the bar high. If she want's to be your wife and a mother to your kids she can't be running around with other MEN.

Don't waste time or money on marriage counseling. You will just hear about how you treat her bad and she needs to bang other men to feel good.


dan

You are making serious strategic mistakes will ruin any chance of helping your wife or saving your marriage. You HARM your wife greatly by helping her keep her secret, BECAUSE YOU ARE ENABLING HER.

If you care at all about your spouse, you should expose the affair. That is the best thing for her and everyone involved. By keeping her secret, you become an accessory to the crime. There is no honor in that!

It sounds to me like you are using FEAR as your guide, instead of logic, reason and good strategy. Your emotions have no intellect and are leading you wrong.

You, my good man, are an ENABLER.

If you don't expose, if you don't take concrete Marriage Builders steps, you're marriage will fail or limp along with you in misery.

Expose. Do it now.

She should not have the kids because she is not a good mother right now. And you will have to support her (and her affair) if she gets them. She does not deserve your financial support. but she does deserve to feel the consequences of her illicit affair.

Your children need your support in the form of fighting for your marriage.

Stop enabling your wife's affair.

x1000

Your children, if you expose and go for full custody, will know you fought for them.

If you do not, and let her take them, the odds are high that they will be abused. There is more chance of that with OM than much else.

Stop folding over. This is a war and you do not win by giving in.

That is a real bargin.
That is a real bargin for WW. Though not for you or the kids.

A bargin with an offer to go NC with the OM that no one will be able to make WW adhere to.

talked to her last night and stuck firm to the kids being with me, she countered with "you're battering me by trying to keep me here against my will" and i want custody, child support, half of everything like we talked about originally. I told her she was welcome to leave, but the kids stay.

With talk like that you must have a VAR on you at all times. Even mentioning battering is a hint that there is a fake domestic violence charge somewhere in your future.

You are definitely not battering her, of course -- keep to your stance. If she thinks she's getting the kids and child support out of you without a fight, she's wrong.

already have it. at some points i have considered asking a mod to delete my thread.

Why is that?

i'm thinking she knows about MB. i'm worried she'll try to use it against me. I have said nothing I'm ashamed of or need to hide though so...

What's made you suspect this? has she been on your computer?

i would hate to lose the inspiration i get from reading through my journey to this point too. though i've been a hard-headed, waffling, enabler i appreciate all the support i've gotten from all of you. sometimes i feel really alone in this fight.

Have you exposed yet?

i went on hers and was going to direct her to survivinginfidelity FAQs and MB, but changed my mind. she must have checked her cache. i went back and deleted it, I hope she forgets, but it's really simple to remember.

Obviously, she cannot "use MB against you," so this is another non-issue. You are just blowing smoke to distract from the fact that you refuse to stop enabling her affair.

On a separate thread you asked:



Had she been diagnosed with a mood disorder?

To repeat JC's comment about MB security, as now applied to your "mood disorders" query:

...so this is another non-issue. You are just blowing smoke to distract from the fact that you refuse to stop enabling her affair.

Let's cut through the other potential nonsense all at once. The following factors will not be legitimate reasons for you refrain from taking action, and instead continue to play the whinging coward:

- her hair color
- her height
- her astrological sign
- her birth-order position
- her favorite TV show
- your favorite TV show
- her political affiliation
- her mommy's/daddy's life/death/illness/baldness/marital history/employment

Are you getting what I'm trying to say here, dude? The way to have an affair die is to KILL it.

she has been diagnosed with depression and anxiety. when coupled with, genetics, snooping, observation of increasingly destructive behavior, and information that I believe she has only disclosed to me as her husband, I believe there is a strong likelihood of a mood disorder. I have discussed my observations with my IC and she thinks there is some likelihood my WS is in the midst of a manic episode. so has anyone dealt with a true diagnosis in a WS?

And believe me I do want to kill this affair; but I have to do what's best for my children first! Once that's decided the affair will DIE.

Did you expose?! If you read SAA you would see that's normal for WWs to feel like that. Stop making excuses for her. My WW attempted suicide. I still exposed! The affair is ongoing and she is depressed because of it. Sometimes that's what it takes for a WW to realize all her problems aren't because of her BH but her illogical actions that destroy families. I understand you feel the need to protect her cause of your vows but expose and file. Drag it out if you have to but stop shielding her with bogus diagnoses!

Often, it is a good idea to make a CLEAR and PRECISE definition of what this means.

CLEAR AND PRECISE
This is exactly what is about to happen. I unleash a bulldog soon, but have been advised it would be bad to expose to employer at this time. Employer is who I need to expose to though.

You "clear and precise" definition of what's best for your children is "to unleash a bulldog," and you've decided to unleash a toothless bulldog. Gotcha.

So, she's been diagnosed with the side-effects of having an affair... oooooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

I would go into what's best for your kids is you exposing the affair, and fighting for your wife...

And that exposing to work is the absolute best weapon in your arsenal at present...

...and that if you don't tell your kids that you will be allowing your wife to possibly spin the story and tell them that wrong is right and down is up, and so on...

But you appear determined to twiddle your thumbs and do nothing and diagnose your WW with everything so as to avoid having to do anything that might upset her.

Exposure will not ruin your marriage. She has already done that.

Start working to patch it up with this.

Your latest excuse is that you have to what's best for your children before you can do what's best for your children.

Anyway this man discovers a lamp. rubs it and a genie pops out, saying, "I am the genie of the lamp, and you get one wish!"

"One wish?", answers the man. "That doesn't seem fair!"

"Budget cutbacks," is the reply. "Make your wish!"

The man says, "I want to live forever!"

The genie answers, "We cannot grant open-ended wishes like that!"

The man responds, "Then I want to live until a certain reluctant BH performs his exposure."

Says the genie, "You are very shrewd!"

JC, the next thing that will pop up as an impediment to doing what should be done is the need to explain to YOU why it hasn't been done, what will be required before it can be done, how he's planning to go about doing it...unless before he can get it done something unexpected occurs, like the Sun rising in the EAST!!

I shudder to think what will happen next...

I realize you are eager to do this thing, but is that really the most dangerous weapon at your disposal? Have you considered unleashing a bulldog with false teeth and a mood disorder? Just throwing it out there...

I have been waffling on exposure here because of fear of legal retribution and not wanting to do tear apart my family. I have realized that my family is already torn apart by my enabling my wife for our entire marriage. I have continued to expose my situation to my friends and co-workers, but not to hers. I have been afraid to expose to my WW employer. I know things going on at her employer which are appalling. I have exposed these to my friends as well. Well, my exposure has taken on a life of it's own. One of my exposure targets called me and they have exposed to WW's employer. I have had a moral delimma about what is going on there for a long time. I'm not afraid anymore. And knowing the truth is out there; finally, feels good. She continues this self-destructive behavior and it infuriates me, she makes poor choices for herself and thinks it only affects her. She lives in a world all her own and it can't stand anymore. I'm sorry I didn't live up to the MB principles. I have hurt myself and my children by not taking a stand for what I know to be right in my heart. I'm going through with the rest of this regardless of what happens. I will not enable this affair anymore. I will not let my children come to any further harm. And I will protect my heart and mind from my WS abuse. I have pleaded with her to end the affair and it gets me nothing but more lies and heartache. She wants to be divorced, she can have one. She thinks she's in LURVE with this POSOM, let him pay the bills and pull her a$$ out of the bathtub when she's drunk and thinks it's a good idea to sleep in there. When she hits rock-bottom and wants to clean herself up and get the help she needs then she can talk to me, and I'll tell her what she needs to do if she wants to be a real mother to her children. If she wants to be a wife she's got a lot more work to do and a lot of remorse to show first.

I'm sorry I didn't live up to the MB principles. I have hurt myself and my children by not taking a stand for what I know to be right in my heart. I'm going through with the rest of this regardless of what happens. I will not enable this affair anymore. I will not let my children come to any further harm. And I will protect my heart and mind from my WS abuse.

Okay, what is your next step? To be completed by TODAY???

There is no legal retribution for telling the truth. Where do you get this crazy stuff from.

Got it all from my head TR. Fear and weakness ruled me.

Next steps, I have contacted my attorney to have her served with an amended initial petition.
Find suitable childcare for my children while I'm at work.
Watch the fallout from exposure.
Pull more strength from wherever I found this bit and thank my friends and family for their support and humbly ask for more.
Continue to pray and hope she can realize these are the consequences of her actions.

And where is the important detail about getting YOUR story out in a full exposure?

Right now there's a gossip-laden half-assed account drifting around (you think) that has exposed her scurrilous actions. That is N OT good enough. Here's what you need to transmit:

Friends, some of you might be learning of WW's infidelities
and the problems she has thrust upon (children listed) and
me. I want you to know that the facts are................

I want to ask your help in counseling WW about the damaging
effect on the lives of all of us, and suggesting she give up
her life of infidelity and dishonor, and return to one of
faithfulness and piety. I would also request your prayers
in that matter.

If that is your goal, why did you list "next steps" which have nothing to do with MB?

Mijunleigh,

I know exactly where you are and I have a cautionary tale to tell you.

You see three years ago my wife had an affair while she was deployed and I did not expose her I kept her secret. I made the wrong choice once I found out to tell her I would keep her secret for her. I knew about MB and we even talked to Steve about 5 times. She decided to stay married to me and we went back to the same routine we had been doing prior to the affair.

Well guess what happened to me? She just got back from another deployment where she had another affair. I never exposed her the first time and she had no repercussions for her actions. This set a tone for her to feel that she could get away with it again. YOU NEED TO EXPOSE HER AFFAIR! Just like the veterans here keep telling you. You do not want to be in my shoes a year or two later. I'm fighting such an uphill battle with her to see that MB would work for us that I may never see the peak. You have an opportunity right now to save your family and your wife from her destructive behavior and it starts with EXPOSURE. Do not wait any longer. The longer you wait the affair gets more entrenched and she may never come out of her fog.

You have one play right now that will save your family and that is to EXPOSE her affair.

Stone

Oh boy. This guy is not going to make it.

mijunleigh, there is nothing we can do to help you if you won't expose the affair. The chances dwindle every day that you choose not to take action.

You are allowing FEAR to drive your agenda, and people who can't follow a plan and put their emotions aside don't make it.

I personally refuse to try to help someone who won't expose because I know it is hopeless. I won't help you push a car up the hill when you refuse to turn off the parking brake. And that is what you are doing: pushing a car up the hill with the parking brake on.

I have exposed. It was difficult and painful to me because I feel like she has been hurt. She has blocked me from FB. And under the divorce papers she is out of the house. I am primary custodial parent for our children at this time pending a hearing. I'm currently working on finding suitable childcare for our children while I'm at work. I'm moving on with my personal recovery. Don't know how Plan A fits into this. Seems like she'll have more time with OM. What do I do now?

Good decision on the exposure. Was it wide enough? All family, key friends, etc, etc?

You have your children, which is good. Where is WW staying? The reason I ask is that your ability to perform any type of Plan A will be bounded and defined by your ability to implement EN satisfactions without WW at home.

That said, what is your timetable for moving this process forward? Sun-tzu's maxim was to the effect that an opponent disrupted and on the run (as WW is right now) should not be given time to recover.

The carrot and stick of Plan A should NOT be taken to imply that pressure and conflict should be deflected from the WS. The higher the pressure and discomfort associated with her NOT returning 100% to the marriage will, by contrast, make the comfort and attractiveness of returning all that much more desirable.

referring to both.

she was legally forced out of the house due to a restraining order.

my family is going to help as much as possible with child care. my parents will watch them once a week. I'm looking into an after-school program for my son. My daughter is the hard one because she will need full time daycare and I can't afford it at this time. I've applied for childcare assistance and other programs for assistance but it will take weeks to kick in, and I may not even qualify. I'm also working on cleaning and organizing the chaos(mess) in the home. She actually has wanted to do this for so long; a Plan A step I guess.

She believes she could live with OM and the kids and make this work. Like I'd ever let my kids live with a druggie around whether used in the home or not. That was with me watching the kids too though.

I still hope and pray her eyes open soon before this gets any harder for all of us.

How did you do the workplace exposure? And how did you get a restraining order against her?

Workplace exposure went through their regional hr department via an anonymous source whom I did not ask to make contact. I vented about other activites which have been happening there, and this person made a call to someone they knew. There will now be an investigation into employee drug use, theft, fraud, nepotism, and the affair.

When I told my attorney about the destructive activites she has been engaged in recently he recommended the TRO. I agreed because I don't know what she is thinking right now and I need to protect my children from further harm and conflict.

She went shopping the other day, there's no food for the kids in the house. She bought soda, hot pockets, microwave pizzas, corn dogs, and ham lunch meat. My children and wife do not eat these things only I do. We never have more than 1 or 2 of the frozen items in the freezer at any given time. She did not buy fruits or vegetables which we feed them at every meal. She also arranged for an overnight stay with her parents on a school night which has never happened before. She relented when I insisted the kids should have a normal school night and they could stay there Friday and Saturday night. She was served the next morning and I believe it couldn't have been more timely. I'm very scared about this whole thing.

When I asked if you were referring to the previous exposure or a new exposure, you said "both." Now you are stating that there was no new exposure; you were just referring to the gossip generated from your previous exposure. Correct?

no i have exposed to her friends via facebook before she shut me down.

Did you do a formal workplace exposure?

Don't feel bad about doing this. FB exposure was a great move!

Drugs on your WW's part or the OM? What kind of drugs?

OM is a pot user and does it almost every day. She thinks this is an ok person to have in her life because "he wouldn't do it around the kids." She has since "tried" it once because she wanted to see what it was like. She felt safe and trusted him so she did it. She's never dome some of the things she's done during these affairs. Keep in mind they've only been physical that I know of for less than a month. The EA began before the holiday season when she had a "crush" on him after he became an employee. She was still seeing OM1 at the time. She didn't break up with him till end of Dec 1st week of Jan. Must have been tough to juggle 3 men at once.

YOU need to formally (in writing) expose the affair to her supervisor and other key personel within her company.

her supervisor is OM's sister and in good with all the HR people in this region. the whole company here is a "good ole boys" club. nobody would put me in contact with the region manager. so I gave up. but I told enough people and one of my friends was furious and told a friend etc. I don't know who made the call only that it was made and I should get more info back on Monday.

You said that HR was going to investigate. Who told you that? And who told you that you would be updated on Monday?

My info comes through a friend I exposed to. My friend told someone else who couldn't believe the story. My friend is supposed to let me know what happens on Monday after the exposer calls the HR person back for a status update on Monday morning.

Your friend's friend cared enough to find an HR phone number and expose this directly to your wife's HR dept. Why don't you?

good question. I WILL get the contact info when on monday and call the person to confirm everything they have heard.

Had a long conversation with my mother today. One of many I have had with my family recently. It sucks to be a grown man sobbing because you feel broken and humbled by what you have to do because you know it's right. I am going to my church to ask for assistance. I haven't been to church in over 15 years except for leap day 2004. I am going to be going with my children every week now.

I still have to make child care arrangements. I looked at one place that was perfect; it also cost almost every penny I make each month. I applied for welfare benefits, but those won't kick in for at least 2 weeks if I even qualify, and child care assistance will take 2 weeks to interview and then I get to be on a waitlist if I qualify for that.

I wonder how people make ends meet on full welfare. I just can't see how she thought she would be able to do this on 1/3 of what I earn when I can't see a way to make it work myself. Oh that's right POSOM was going to live with her and my kids and I was going to pay child support and act as babysitter when they were out! Well I'm not financing her lifestyle anymore and to paraphrase NG she can pay to wash her own filthy panties.

Calling your friend's friend to ask questions isn't even close to doing a formal workplace exposure. The exposure must come from you, and it must be in writing. You don't even need to create the letter yourself. There are sample workplace exposure letters on this site. I know you are aware of them because you copied some of them in one of your previous posts. All you have to do is insert your wife and OM's names into a template letter and send it. Is that really too much trouble for you?

And you began this thread more than 2 weeks ago, but you still haven't taken the first step which is to fully expose your wife's affair. It seems like you aren't really looking for MB advice; you are just looking for sympathy.

I think he means he will get contact info and call employer,s HR.

Even if that is what he meant, making a phone call to HR is not a formal workplace exposure.

It warrants switching from 2x4's to perhaps a Nerf bat.

mij, you are not taking this very seriously, are you? All you need to do is use the workplace exposure template and send it certified mail to several people as outlined in the instructions on the Exposure 101 thread.

Spreading gossip among co-workers is not "exposure." And it won't be effective.

Is there a serious reason why you aren't taking a proactive approach to this? You have been here plenty long enough to know how to do this. Why haven't you acted?

Or getting a bigger 2x4!

He has been reading and posting on this board long enough to know what he needs to do, so ignorance of the MB program is not a viable excuse at this point. He isn't following the MB plan because he doesn't want to follow the MB plan. I give up.

It isn't ignorance. It is fear. He has admitted this.

There is nothing we can do if a person chooses to give into the luxury of their fears. Like Harley says, if a person can't put aside their emotions and follow a plan they are unlikely to make it.

Everyone feels fear here. WE can choose to follow the fear or follow the PLAN. The ones who make it follow the PLAN. FEAR leads to nothing but despair and broken marriages.

And this poster is an prime example of what happens when you give in to fear...

BUT, you eventually overcame that fear and followed the plan! Sometimes it is too late, though.

Fear and lack of action in his part is exactly why his WW is on OM number 3.

How many men does your WW have to go through before you do something of substance to help your family?

I was afraid, now I'm angry. Divorce and getting my children away from her is substantial. The kids and child support are all she wants from me. I want my kids to have their real mom. If written is the only acceptable way then written it will be. I thought a phone call would be enough. I'm too tired of keeping her secrets when they go against everything I know to be moral and right. I realize it might be too late, but I've got to live with that if it's so.

I went to church today, I feel empowered that the steps I'm taking to protect my children are right. I found a good upstanding woman today who lives in my neighborhood and runs a daycare out of her home for supplemental income; she was referred to me by the bishop of my church. I'm going to meet with her tomorrow to discuss her watching my daughter. I can do an after-school Y thing for my son.

The restraining order doesn't take her out of the house till the hearing on the 13th, so she's coming home tonight. I took the d***** lock off the door to the office. WW wants to hide stuff she can go elsewhere. This is the house where my family lives there are no secrets here. She wants privacy she can go into the bathroom. Wants to walk around in her underpants go ahead and do it but don't do it in front of me. She doesn't want me to do her laundry I won't. I'm also not financing any more of her excursions to her POSOM's place.

What else do I need to do?

Let's take a quick break and get caught up.

Have you ever exposed this to all family and friends, OM family and friends and the employer in writing?

Have you filed for divorce?

Do you want to save your marriage?

Have you read Surviving an Affair book by Dr Harley?

Have you ever exposed this to all family and friends, OM family and friends and the employer in writing?

all family, our mutual friends, employer tomorrow after speaking with the HR rep., she has disabled her facebook account so can't get to anymore of her friends.

Have you filed for divorce?

yes because I can't have my children exposed to the hurt anymore. hearing on the 12th to remove one of us from the house and give me custody. final would happen in mid march.

Do you want to save your marriage?

I would like nothing more than to save this marriage even if it means we have to divorce first, then reconcile years later. I stand by my commitment and I still love and care for her. It kills me to see her doing these things to herself and the pain she is in because of her choices.

Have you read Surviving an Affair book by Dr Harley?

I have not yet read the book or ordered it.

Get the book. It's an eye opener. And it has the plan.

check your local library, they may have it... Then you can download it.

I will check it out from the library. they don't have it in download form

JC upon further review of the restraining order she doesn't have to leave the house until it is decided at our hearing. I am going to ask her again to end the affair or leave the house. She is going to say she's not leaving her kids though. I just don't know what tactic to take here because she is going to try to throw it in my face that I don't have a legal right to throw her out.

The workplace exposure is getting stonewalled I think by the district mgr. Something about off-work activities. I cannot get contact info for anyone else because they are a private company and don't have numbers listed. I haven't given up. It just proves to me that the corruption at this place goes deeper than I could have imagined.

Your friend's friend was able to find an HR phone number and report the matter directly to the HR dept, but you cannot figure out how to do that? You can't even ask your friend for the phone number? Have you even bothered to do an internet search on the company? The most basic info would be on her paystubs and tax forms. It appears that you are the one who is doing the stonewalling...

The HR contact is just a regular employee that has HR duties as well. Every number found online is disconnected. Contact Us page is an email form which goes to the store mgr and district mgr. Pay stubs are all online and I don't have the password. I did not think about the tax forms though; I just got them in the mail! You're a genius!

I got SAA. The first chapter is so much like my situation. Should I try to get WW to read it?

Nope. Get exposure complete. Get HR contact to give you name of HR director and send exact copy of exposure letter to HR director. Do it today.

Originally Posted by mijunleigh

I got SAA. The first chapter is so much like my situation. Should I try to get WW to read it?

STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND DO THE WORKPLACE EXPOSURE.

Do not try to get WW to read it.

Attempts to educate waywards do not work.

Just do your best Plan A (no lovebusters and showing your best self)
and
expose without warning her you are going to do it. (your WW will be hissing, spitting mad but it needs to be done). Do it and be done with that part of the plan. Know that she will be angry but be brave enough to face that. You gotta. If you don't, you are enabling and approving of the infidelity.Make no excuses to others for having done it once you get it done.


prepare to Plan B from her if she does not end her waywardness. That means, make sure while you are in Plan A that your finances are secure, you know your legal rights in your state and etc. You do not tell your WW you are preparing for possible separation.

Thanks for your words reading. I am trying to get some address to write to; but this company sure doesn't make it easy to register any kind of complaint.

She stayed home last night. I made her favorite dish last night from scratch. Fettucinni Alfredo with broccoli and chicken. We watched a movie with the kids all cuddled up with us on the couch. Closest I've been to her in a month.

Plan B is in the works pending our hearing on the 12th. Assets are pretty much divided right now.

Mijunleigh

Everyday you have another reason for not getting exposure done. You will notice that the veteran posters here have abandoned you. That is because you are being a lily-livered, panty-waisted, quivering, waffling non-starter. Nothing pisses off a vet more (There is a thread about this, but I hesitate to tell you about it, because that will be tomorrow's excuse for not getting your exposure done.)

Time to do the deed, amigo.

Tomorrow, I want your post to be telling us all how you have completed exposure...

Need a translator please for the text convo we had this morning. Most we've talked in a week. Wonder if she's on the fence. I have exposed to work, just don't know how long action will take or if it will. Being patient through this sucks cause I feel like I'm running out of time.

Me: Sorry didn't get your message until this morning. I did call your parents on the way and I did hug and kiss the kids and tell them you loved them before bed.

WW: I didn't get the rest of that. It stopped at kids..

Me: kids and tell them you loved them before bed.

WW: You do know that we don't have to take this to court. We can come to an agreement and save money and time and stress. It would be better for the kids if we do this amicably.

ME: WW you have refused to even consider any of my conditions. If you want amicable please speak with my attorney. I have told you before what I want I will no longer enable you.

WW: Yes I did say I would agree to some of them. You aren't considering any of my requests though now either. I will see your attorney at the hearing Tuesday morning. I am not leaving my children. They are happy and safe with me. Nothing I have ever done or will ever do would show otherwise. I was trying to reach out to you for the best interest of our children. I think it best if we do not talk anymore without an attorney or counselor present if it is about this case.

Me: You requested me to leave my children and move out. You told me you would think about maybe holding off your relationship with POSOM if I gave you primary custody. Then the next day you dropped it and said you wanted everything. then you goaded me by telling me to do what I felt was right. Well I'm doing that. I'm standing up to you and your abuse. I'm sorry you don't like it. Would you like a chip?

WW: I do hope you have a good day though, I was worried about you this morning.

Me: Thank you for your concern. What were you worried about? The wet road?

WW: No, your state of mind. You haven't been yourself the last three weeks. And it really concerns me. I asked you to move out because of the stress between us, the kids already are showing signs that they feel it and it really hurts seeing them like this. They are with me most of the time so it would be most normal for them if you were the one to move out. But BH we should not be discussing this. You sealed our fates when you chose to hire a lawyer, put a restraining order on me, and serve me with those degrading divorce papers. I am not a bad mother and I would never hurt my children or put them through what I went through as a child. And you know that. You just can't see it right now because you are hurt and angry. Again, we should not discuss this anymore unless you are willing to work this out without trials and lawyers.

Me: I am not sure I should speak with your counselor. I do not believe you will not use something against me if it's said. I would be more comfortable if we discussed things in front of my attorney. I will discuss amicability with you later. I will not discuss any issues at this time. And no I never wanted it to happen this way, you know that.

WW: That last comment got cut off and sounded very threatening. Can you please rephrase?

Me: Sorry it sounded that way. I don't mind talking about ways to make an amicable solution work. I just don't want to discuss issues without my attorney.

WW: No I do not know that BH because your actions prove otherwise. You asked me for complete honest when you first filed. I gave you that. I answered any and all questions you berated me with. And then you went behind my back and hired a lawyer and put a restraining order on me. That is not amicable. I did none of those things. I was completely vulnerable and unprotected and you knew it so you have me right where you want me. Please do not contact me any more about this. If you have something to say about this tell your attorney to call me. The kids will be at MILs again tonight like usual when I am working for you to pick up when you get off. Every night I come home from work you are waiting for me to talk or something I don't know but from now on do not knock on my door or meet me outside when I get home. we have nothing we need to discuss right now. Have a good day.

Me: I think we do have more to discuss. And I'm willing, but very untrusting of you. I do hope you have a good day to. You and DD have fun. Early release today 1245.

No mijunleig
She's not sitting on the fence she's trying to gather evidence she can and will use against you in court hence why she text you. She wants it to look like she's being amicable and you are the crazy one.

I am amazed as to why you didn't reply to any of those messages by mentioning her affairs. Had you done so she would not be able to use those texts in court as evidence against you.

Why am I so trusting of her. I hate doing this legal crap. Why can't she just sit down and talk and see reason?

Because she's an addict and lives in a fantasy land here she gets to sleep around, have a docile husband on the side and be a decent mother to the kids.

There is no fairness, reason, trust or faith when it comes to dealing with people selfish enough to destroy their family by being unfaithful.

Please be weary and never ever ever trust anything she says or does especially while she is still having an affair.

Have you exposed to your kids? I would respond to future texts with: I'm doing what is necessary to protect our family. If you end your affair now and agree to never contact POSOM again we can work on our marriage.

In Plan A you avoid relationship talk. Quit negotiating.

What plan A stuff did you do/plan to do this week?

To whom did you send the workplace exposure letters?

Those text messages were so carefully composed, it was like reading a screenplay. Why are you focusing on the dramatic details of your situation rather than implementing a plan for recovery?

the conversation went on after I posted the first. Here's the continuation. There's some deep fog and enabling here beware:

Me: I think we do have more to discuss. And I'm willing, but very untrusting of you. I do hope you have a good day to. You and lizzie have fun. Early release today 1245. FYI I have not berated you, I asked you to stop seeing your BF so we wouldn't cause undue stress on us and the kids. I asked if you continued your affair to see if you were even willing to think about the damage you have caused to our family.I asked you questions to see if you would continue to hide things and lie to me and your children. I told you the truth about the lawyer, and recording conversations, and wanting to put the kids in daycare. You're the one with secrets not me.

WW: Again I ask, please do not continue to contact me regarding this case or situation. Your last sentence was incomplete..."you're the..."??

Me: You're the one with secrets not me. And you've been keeping them from me for years. I'm not mad or angry or any different than I've ever been. So I ask again. Will you consider ending it with Brandon for now and working with me?

WW: There is nothing to end. The only thing that needs to end is our marriage. That is the only thing I will work with you on. Drop the restraining order and stop trying to make me out to be mentally unstable and unsuitable to raise my own children whom I love more then anything in this world and settle this.

Me: That's what I'm talking about. We will end this marriage by working together toward that goal. But I cannot have you running off to see him every day. It hurts me and your children. The restraining order is not meant to be anything other than protection for me and our kids. I will be happy to drop it when you show me you're willing to work with me.

WW: But I cannot have you...?

Me: But I cannot have you running off to see him every day. It hurts me and your children. And you refuse to acknowledge this.

WW: Be happy to drop....?

Me: I will be happy to drop it when you show me you're willing to work with me.

WW: I do not run off every day to see him. I'm working jake. And getting things done that I need done. Having girl time with MIL. There is no him. I don't know why you're so stuck on that.

Me: No him? So you're not seeing POSOM? You're not taking him home and spending hours at his house? While still married?

WW: I do give some of my coworkers rides home on occassion because its the right thing to do. And when my boss asks me to pick up her kid I see no issue in that. I have friends at work BS I'm not going to change that. I need a support system just like anyone else.

Me: Why are you avoiding this question? Are you afraid to put it in writing that you're having another affair?

WW: And according to the papers you filed we ceased to live together as husband and wife on jan 6. So I might be married but if texas recognized separations I would be legally separated. But that is not the issue. The issue is that we need to do what is best for our kids and either we can do it or let the judge decide. I am not avoiding any questions BS. But if you cannot be amicable with me I ask you for the third time today to stop talking with me about this and have your lawyer call me.

Me: I already am doing what's best for my children. I'm taking them away from an unstable situation. I'm spending my time with them while you go do whatever. I'm taking them to church, and helping with homework, and finding childcare, and cleaning up after them, and cleaning up after you.

WW: Your messga ebroke off at I'm spending my ti...

Me: I'm being the best father I can be. I'm molding and shaping our children into good kids. And I'll continue to do that everyday. One day I hope you find what you're looking for. This happier life you think is out there. I know what makes me happy, my family. It always has. When you want to be part of it you can, when you don't you don't have to be. Just don't hurt us anymore with your destructive behavior. Please.

WW: ...parent of the year. Where were you for the last 6 years while I did everything for them? And for you. They don't need childcare BS. They haveme. And family.

Me: I was there by your side to pull you out of whatever despair you were in. You just never asked unless you were drunk.

WW: Being apart from each other and with strangers 90% of the time is NOT good for them. Why can't you understand that? They need to be with us right now. One of us. Me when you're working and you when I'm working. Stop this. Right now.

Me: I don't like it either, but it's better than being exposed to where you're heading. I've been trying to stop it. Why don't you see that. You're getting everything you want.

WW: And no you weren't there. You got arrested when I needed you when I was pregnant and I had to find money to pay you bail and stay up driving back and forth between leander and georgetown while you werre in jail trying to get you released. And you weren't there for me after I had DS oOr lizzie. When she was born I needed you and you weren't there. You pushed us aside. You didn't want kids when we had them. And you never adapted. I did. I grew up fast. Because I knew I had to care for them because you wouldn't.

Me: I helped you with plugged milk ducts, and back aches, and tried to help you through your post-partum. You couldn't stand to be near lizzie when she was born. After DS was born neither of us knew how to be parents, you were overprotective and I was unprepared. I told you long ago what I wanted most in life was to be a husband and father. I chose you to be my wife and mother to my kids. When I needed you most after I lost my job, you left me to visit your ex-bf and "see if there was anything there". I put up with your infidelities and flirting with other men for years. All you can see right now is what I did wrong.

WW: That is not true.

Me: Take responsibility for your actions, open your eyes to what you're doing. Ask yourself if you would have wanted to grow up with a mom who does what you do.

WW: There was no infidelities. Stop badgering me. Right now.

Me: Stop hurting me and the kids with lies.

A while ago.


I cooked dinner Monday night from scratch, her favorite. I didn't complain because I don't really like italian food, we bought her flowers too. Then watched a movie like a real family would.

I will continue to be early for work every day and pour myself into it.
I will spend as much quality time as I can with my children and invite/include WW to join when she chooses to be here.
I will continue to clean up after the kids, laundry, house, backyard, car.
On Feb 11th is our 7yr. anniversary, I would like to take her out and have her wear that nice dress she bought but hasn't worn.
I will read SAA.



Her company is owned by a private equity firm which buys distressed companies and resells, dismantles, or restores them. I sent to the only address for them I could find.

Why are you referring to your actions as if they were part of Plan A? You are in Plan Doormat, not Plan A. Regardless, you shouldn't be focusing on anything other than exposing your wife's affair at this point.

Fettucini Alfredo cannot save your marriage;
Flowers cannot save your marriage;
Movies with the kids cannot save your marriage;
Cleaning, laundry, etc. cannot save your marriage;
Obsessing over your wife's text messages cannot save your marriage;
As long as you continue enabling your wife's affair, nothing can save your marriage.

If you truly want to save your marriage, stop enabling her and expose the affair. Exposure can save your marriage.

Did you ever bother to get the contact name & phone number your friend's friend used to call HR? You said you were going to do that on Monday.

I am advised by my lawyer to take no further action on my own regarding exposure. I will have to trust that enough has been done with the anonymous tip and the phone call I made. I wish I had done this all when D-Day happened. I am going to have to see what the hearing brings on Tuesday. Until then I gather my evidence together and organize it for presentation to the court.

That's another excuse. My lawyer told me I can tell anyone I want and it's not defamation or slander because it is true. Sounds like another excuse.

Mijunleigh

Lawyers always give advice in order to cover themselves legally. What kind of lawyer would ever advice you to expose?? Lawyers avoid conflict and want to do the least amount of work possible. Try asking your lawyer to send an official letter to your WW company regarding inappropriate conduct of their employees.

Try asking your lawyer if its a good idea to engage in a text debate with your WW. I guarantee he would advice you against it yet you did it today.

Do you know any lawyers who save marriages or know how to survive an affair or even just Give advice that they have tried and followed themselves in order to save a marriage from a WW?

You can keep doing it your way and getting nowhere or you can listen to advice given by the members of this forum who truly follow an expert successful psychologist in this field.

I don't appreciate being lied to by you regarding work exposure earlier today. You stated you sent a letter and now in your latest post you state you consider a phone call and gossip passed on by a friend as exposure. That's not exposure and you know that by now.

Like many before me on this thread I am no longer interested in helping a person who isn't willing to do the basic steps of this program to save their family.

I'm sending the sincerest best wishes to your kids who have a very painful road ahead of them as they are dealing with two foggy parents. One who cheats, manipulates and lies and one who just isn't strong enough to do anything apart from analyse meaningless details in order to avoid doing anything to truly help them.

You didn't even bother to ask for an email address when you were on the phone with HR? Also, a few hours ago, you wrote "Her company is owned by a private equity firm which buys distressed companies and resells, dismantles, or restores them. I sent to the only address for them I could find." If you sent a letter to the firm which owns her company, why did you just say that the only workplace exposure was an anonymous tip and a phone call?

x2

I did send a letter to the only address I could find, I just don't think it'll go anywhere.

It seems random strangers are more invested in saving your marriage than you are. Your being feeble and your WW knows this and will keep running over you.

TD, if anything changes here, would you pop me a flare on your thread, or send me an e-mail? Thanx!

I'm sick of being called a liar today. I did send a letter to the only address I could find for them. I know workplace exposure is my most effective tool to end this affair, I just don't think the morally bankrupt individuals I'm dealing with will do anything about it before my marriage is dissolved. Right now I have 0 hope of any reconciliation post divorce. I know I should have gone nuclear in the beginning, I know I have enabled. I'm doing the best I can to stop it.

Sure thing NG. Do you have a crystal ball? How do you know they won't do anything unless you try effectively? If you try and nothing happens you will have peace of mind instead of shudda cudda wuddas. Expose that's the only thing you have to do a full blown thermonuclear explosion exposure.

NG, TD, JC you are all right about nuclear exposure. My trickle has been ineffective. It has all been done eventually, and poorly. I can't think of anything more to do along exposure lines. I will have to wait and see if anything comes of what has been done. Maybe it will not fall on deaf ears. What should my next step be?

That is not true, Mijunleigh. You still haven't sent an exposure letter to your wife's workplace.

You could have sent exposure letters through the mail.
You could have gotten email addresses from the HR person with whom you spoke, and sent exposure letters via email.
You could have shown up at the office and hand-delivered exposure letters.

You could have gotten the workplace exposure done in a fraction of the time you've spent coming up with excuses not to.

You cannot jump to the next step without completing the first step.

sigh...It's been a while and Ive been silent to long.

Yesterday was eventful to say the least. I took my wife to the hospital. Checked her into the psych ward. She was released and is staying at a crisis center for a few days, then goes into intensive outpatient psychiatric treatment while living with her parents. They asked her if she wanted me to be in the room with her at the hospital and she actually described our relationship to the social worker as: "Imagine falling off the edge of a cliff. He's always there to catch me and pull me back up again, but he's the one who is standing at the top coaxing me off the edge."

She's making it out to be that I caused her to break because I kept pushing her. I just refuse to give in to her demands for custody and no longer accomdate her lifestyle. She says she feels unsafe around me and in our home because I have chosen to install a security camera to watch the house when I'm away and the kids when I'm out of the room. She says I'm erratic because I try to be nice to her, then get upset when she leaves to go see her POSOM or not come home or says she want to do something special with DS because he doesn't see her much(aka sit on the couch and send texts to POSOM).

Yet I'm the one she asks to take her to the hospital, and she was the one flirting with me for 2 days "to be nice and keep things friendly." If you can't stand being around a man, and the very thought of him touching you makes your skin crawl. Would you act flirtatious? Would you do things you know would attract him. Would you wear clothes which accentuate your "features"? Would you let him gently push you over onto the couch and a few seconds later fall on top of you. Would you say "I knew you were going to do that," then ask him to please get off of you. Then when he walks back to the other couch would you turn to the security camera and say "see he beats me" and smile about it. Is that really the action of a woman who feels threatened and nearly raped? Would you ever set foot in that house again even though your children were there? Let alone spend the night in the house even if your door is locked? I'm so confused right now.

Please tell me you're documenting everything?
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

My wife used to complain about her head hurting and said she would go to the hospital but never did.
I suggest you ask for a Guardian ad litem for the kids.

I am documenting. I need to read that thread to make sure it's up to standards. But I started doing that at the suggesting of my atty.


I'm not really sure what you're saying here JK. Is there other reasoning for the ad litem? Something I'm obviously missing. My whole family believes she's manipulating. I am certainly skeptical.

I sat with her in the hospital all day, then drove her to the crisis center at her request because she didn't seem to want them to come to our home. They even asked her if she wanted me in the room while being interviewed by the social worker at the hospital. She used a "metaphor" to describe our relationship:
Imagine you're at the top of a cliff and you fall off.
He's always there to catch me and pull me back up again.
But he's also the one at the top coaxing me over the edge.

For those who haven't seen it I've started a thread in the Plan D forum. Here.

Is there a reason for the ad litem?

YES! The reason is for the emotional well being
Of your children after divorce!

Your wife is an emotional wreck and sounds similar to my ex wife.
I have full custody BECAUSE of the ad litem!

Please tell your lawyer you want a Guardian ad litem for your kids!

well my WW just picked up all her clothes and computer from the house. I guess she has moved out. Does this put me in Plan B even though I've screwed up the rest?

My fiance moved out this week after 3 years of a great relationship, i love her more than anything in my life. We i think were perfect together in every way ans i cannot imagine myself with anyone else. We ere supposed to be married in May, we had all the plans set and she pulled the plug and bailed. I am devastated and i do not know what to do, nothing i have said has had any impact on her. We met on eharmony 3 years ago and she was living in Maine i am in N.Y. She move here to be with me and we got engaged 2.5 years ago. I have been out of work but still had income, so it was not a financial issue. There were hurdles like blending kids from both sides etc, but we worked through it all. She is religious and i am a christian, i had not been to church since my divorce much 10 years ago, but i started going 6 months ago with her and i was getting back into it. Every hurdle that she complained about, i jumped and i tried really hard to make her happy in the relationship, that made me closer to her and love her more, she doesnt agree that marriage takes a lot of work. Our sex life was great, we are compatible in every way i think and she always said so too. I want her back, but i do not know how to do it, or why she is throwing away a beautiful thing. I need ideas on how to approach this if there is any hope.

What does plan B mean for you?

Does anyone ever really reply to these posts? Am i doing this right or looking in the right location on here for replies?

mrmel58, your first post looked like it should be your own thread. Have you looked at the Start Here thread on this forum?

No i wasnt sure where to find that, can you help?

It's the very first post on the Surviving an Affair forum.

I'm not sure how to insert a link but if you copy this to your browser it should get you there.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695379#Post2695379

And this being the case:

My fiance moved out this week after 3 years of a great relationship,

your thread will probably best be sited on the Dating/Relationship board.

Click on the notify button under the posting box and ask the moderators to move your thread to the Dating forum. You'll get more help there for your situation.

No. Her leaving does not place you in plan B.
Dr Harley recently explained on the radio that men can
Usually win the women back. Sometimes after divorce. (however women have a much more difficult time winning the man back)

You can continue plan A.
Avoid love busters. Make love bank deposits by meeting emotional needs.
You can also email Dr Harley for advice catered to your specific situation at no charge.

jedi, do you have the link to that radio show?

No I don't. Dr Harley made this statement when poster bnmt called into the show. A couple months ago.

Radio clip
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

thanks folks. I've been spending so much time, gathering evidence, protecting my kids, prepping for divorce, that I haven't had time to listen to any of the show postings. I am a firm believer in Forever Marriage. I want to be able to win her heart back one day. I have read Tranquil's story and he has great strength and hope.

I have decided I don't like roller coasters anymore. While I want her out of the house for the safety of the kids, my own sanity and hers; It kills me to watch her remove her things from the home. I am working on my LB, and AOs. But I also see the manipulation in what she chose to do with my response to her asking for my help.

The whole situation is sick. Every improvement I make for myself and my kids is seen as having ulterior motive, while she's gallivanting around with POSOM, getting drunk and high and leaving her kids with her "abusive husband". Then the next minute she gives me naked pics of herself, then she's in an unsafe living situation when she draws me to her and jokes/makes fun of my reactions.

Thank God!

How should I address her coming into the home and taking things without my knowledge or consent? I don't trust her to take "her" things. Honestly I don't want her to even have pictures with me in them.

I have found that reconnecting with old friends for advice and input can be wonderful and exciting, or heart-breaking. But in some cases I've deserved it.

Do you have an order stopping her from entering?

no i don't, but she already had all the essentials she needs to live on. Clothes, jewelry, toiletries, even took a couple of coffee mugs. Today she came back with her father and his truck to load up the desk from the office (her room) so now she has a "dresser". I just want her to stop because I have so little trust that she will take something that is ours and should be divided. She only comes when I'm not here. Except for today. Really bothersome, and I can't Plan A if I don't have any contact.

Why don't you change the locks?

I did now. But my lawyer says I can't legally bar her from the home because she's still on the lease, and the court hasn't ordered her out. I've moved most of the rest of her stuff to the garage and can lock the house up. She can open that and get the rest of it. I can't wait for this stinking affair to fall apart around her.

Usually the court issues restraining orders freezing marital property.
A good practice, if you can't keep her out of the house, is to walk around with camcorder and videotape all of your property. Also catalog it.

Make sure you have a newspaper with the date of the videotape recorded so then you have proof of what was in the house.

I would hide any jewelry.

When you say she is getting drunk and high, if she is using methamphetamines then you better hide all valuables.

What are your custody orders?

Can you get a court ordered drug test. When it is positive the you can get a TRO. Should talk to your lawyer about this. Also does POSOM have any arrests? This is a good question for your lawyer

she has pretty much gotten all of "her stuff" out of the house. I'm mainly concerned with family photos and things like that. I don't have anything of any real value which can't be easily replaced. I have a security cam in the living room so she can't get to anything inside without me knowing about it and watching/recording it happen. She's only doing pot as far as I know. We don't have any custody orders yet, this should happen on the 21st of the month, and I'm short on funds so I'm kinda stuck there.

I am going for a court ordered drug test and should get the RO and custody at that time. Should be easy with the audio files I've collected. (yes i've done it, and i see the medicinal value, and it doesn't really impair a person). I've brought up POSOM to the lawyer and he doesn't seem concerned about him. This is frustrating to me. I'm about to run the background myself, but this is really what I'm paying him for.

You need to tell the lawyer that. Remember that lawyer works for you! You pay him oodles of your hard earned money. You can find a decent background check online using the sites on the Investigation thread.

Sir pot DOES impair a person.
For starters, I havent had a SINGLE employee that was productive while smoking dope.
It completely destroys ambition.
and its TERRIBLE influence on kids.
My cousins had a dad that was a dope smoker....and now they are grown up and are dope smokers themselves.

You dont need an attorney to get a drug test ordered.
Most family courts have forms you can complete yourself

As for the attorney, YOU need to run the background check.
If youre short on funds why pay an attorney $200 an hour to get on the internet and pay for a background check?
They only cost around $40.

You better do this asap.
My wifes affair partner was a drug addict that went to prison for trying to kill his 3 year old daughter (the cops busted down the door as he was strangling her - he was high on LSD and thought that he was Jesus and his daughter was the devil).
It sounds crazy....but my wife had the kids around this guy and was trying to replace me with him.

I would have never known but for the Background Check.

So please do this asap.

Children need to be protected from addicts and drugs at all costs

JK i agree with you completely about the drug issue. I don't want my kids anywhere near anyone who uses any kind of drugs whether they do it when the kids around or not.



I should have made this line a little more clear. My voice recordings of her and I having conversations have captured these statements. She and her family class pot as a harmless drug. Her father said "she doesn't do drugs." When I said yes she does he asked what, I said pot. He said, "Oh, I thought you said drugs like crack or heroin. If somebody wants to come home after a long week at work and burn a joint who cares." Well dear FIL when it's your daughter doing it and she has visitation with our children...I do.

Also the POSOM not having a DL concerns me. I've talked to WW and she said it's because he didn't pay his tickets. I just don't buy it.

Got a call from my atty on my lunch break and they are going to subpena the records from the hospital and crisis center. I'm just dying to read the lies she spouted there.

Ask for a Guardian ad Litem for the kids

I would follow JK's advice to ask for GAL. He has full custody of his kids.

I was able to pull up "state (type in your state) court records" by googling it. I was able to find information by county from traffic violations to criminal records.....it cost nothing.........found out lots of good information, even my traffic ticket from last year .

i visited the county court websites for the 2 nearby counties. Searched POSOM's name:
possession
revocation of probation for failure to appear on possession
possession
speeding
public intoxication
paraphernalia
theft by check

On the up side of life, I was carded for cigarettes this morning for the first time in forever; and I'm having dinner with an old friend from college to catch up since we haven't seen each other in 12 years. I am not trying to get into a relationship. I have told her I need to guard my heart against anything like that. It will be nice to catch up.

last night was fun. I enjoyed having a normal functional conversation. I actually found myself whistling while I did laundry last night. This morning I got a text from WW asking if she could change our weekend arrangement for child care because of schedule conflicts with MIL. I'm just going to take the Saturday off and take the kids on a trip to see my sister for the weekend and let them play with the chickens.

My son the other night said something about asking his mommy to come home. She told him "I'm never coming back." It kills me to see my children cry about this. I told him again that daddy isn't going anywhere and he will always have me and I will always love him. My daughter doesn't really have the words to express, she just clings for dear life whenever I'm near her.

So I had my temporary orders hearing this morning. As of today I have the house, primary custody, and we worked out a visitation schedule between us. She is now doing some pick-ups instead of me driving all over everywhere to pick up and drop off. I hope this gives me some opportunities to Plan A her. We will likely have a final in the next 2 weeks. I wish she would talk to me. She's gone dark on me! When I pick up or drop off the kids its always MIL there doing the transaction. I picked up 2 used copies of SAA off of Amazon. One for me and one for the future day she breaks free of the fog. I pray she finds herself some day. I know people change, but there's no way I would have married this alien.

I miss her voice...I hadn't heard her voice or seen her in almost 2 weeks. It was comforting to see her hair drift about as she walked past me in the hallway. I did get to hear her say her name and yes twice, but she looked and sounded hollow. I'll have to survive on bread crumbs.

My lawyer says I should change careers and become a lawyer too. AS IF! Although a MB focused lawyer might be interesting if rather destitute. Everything I have used to defend my right as a father and get custody I have learned here. It breaks my heart to use it, but at least I wasn't forced to say anything about this woman; we settled.

So the reason I'm posting today is:

How do I plan A her now since she's gone dark?
And how/can I still plan A her after the divorce is final?

I'm practicing my anti-LB behavior on my kids. I don't know if I can attribute this to my PR or to WW being out of the home. Either way it's healthy. It's actually working with them. They are calmer and happier and becoming more disciplined. We do more things together. Taking walks, going to the park, flying kites. And my house is becoming clean and organized because that's what daddy does to fill the hours between kid bedtime and daddy bedtime.

Do you know if there is a new OM?

Remind me, have you written Dr. Harley?

No I haven't written Dr. Harley. I should probably do that since it's been brought up twice now.

So far no evidence pointing to a new OM. Nothing indicates contact to current OM has stopped. She did say something on the way to check her into the crisis center which might point to something. She said, "I wonder if XXXX will still be around when this is all over." I'll have to verify an end to contact, but maybe trouble in paradise or he backed out.

Hope for the best prepare for the worst. I'm in this for the long haul. I may be staring down a divorce, but I maintain hope, work on my family, have fun with my kids, teach them the right principles for living life, and I'll plan A whenever I get a chance for now.

Re Plan A: You could always e-mail her, or send her "care" packages once in a while. Love letters, chocolates etc. once you know where she is. FWIW I think you have the right attitude.

Well things are moving along in the plan D direction like she wants. I'm still doing my best to Plan A when possible. She finally started showing up for pickups of the kids so I get a chance to say some kind words, or compliment her at these times. I avoid divorce topics as much as possible and refer her to the lawyers.

She took our children to POSOM's sister's wedding and let my son play tag with the worthless sack of S***. Took me a while to cool down from that, but I didn't say anything to her about it. I did tell the kids that mommy shouldn't have taken them there.

Right now we are going through asset division. I find what she thinks I have and the values she has placed on some items hilarious. Stocks, options, and life insurance policies that don't exist; valuing my car in excellent condition and hers in fair. Her A/C doesn't work and it needs some minor body work, but the rest I put 2k into last year when we bought it. My car is only worth the scrap value about 100 bucks because the engine needs overhauled, the front end needs replaced, and the tires are bald. She listed the toaster, and all the kids furniture as community property. I have many other problems about what she put on there, but that's what lawyers are for. I have to find the funny in it.

I am finding life; without having to walk on eggshells for fear I might do something wrong and her cold, constant criticism, rather enjoyable. My house is cleaner than it has ever been; she stopped doing as much housework after her affairs started. I spend more quality time with the kids and we talk about stuff together. We enjoy going to church together, and I'm progressing in my walk.

While everything appears to be looking up, I still ache for her, and pray for her, and watch from afar her slow self-destruction which she calls her self-discovery and happiness. My children and I miss her terribly but I must protect us and guide my children's moral and spiritual development so they know that what she has done is immoral and wrong and will not be the way they live their lives.

Sounds like you're doing okay. We can only pray that the affair dies sooner rather than later. What is your deadline for plan A?

Don't really have a deadline just yet. I'm thinking to give it 6 months from now. Her last affair lasted for a year, but she was able to cake eat and gaslight the whole time. She's already freaking out right now because she has no money.

On that topic...she emailed me yesterday saying she wants to modify the child custody arrangement we agreed to on the 21st. She must be insane because she wants to go from seeing the kids almost daily to a standard visitation because she can't afford to drive from her parent's house, to our house/school 2 or 3 times a day 5 days a week.

I don't know why she has no money, she lives 2 miles from work now and I still pay for her health and car insurance, I pay all the housing expenses as of the 21st, and all she has to do is buy gas and go to work. Must be all the extra trips she makes at night and eating out she's doing. Gonna suck when she has to pay health and car insurance, and child support, and gas not to mention if she wants to move out of her parent's house or has to put the kids in day care.

Well he wants to modify the custody because she wants to leave.
My wife also left.
I am a single parent of 3 kids.
Sometimes women leave and I just encourage you to be the best father possible, through well defined structure and safety for the kids.

Just sent in the email to the atty. They are gonna draft up the docs and send it to her council. My atty also says they haven't heard a peep out of hers for a while now. We'll see what happens.

Amazing seems we are in the same boat! Hope your fight for custody goes your way. Glad you have temp custody! What is your plan by the way? Pro marriage? Or flat out divorce?! Praying for your success at the moment your kids deserve you because your the only sane parent in this messed up equation! Also, I recommend you go back to your very first post and read it. There you will find the strength you discovered when you started to fight for your marriage the MB way. I did and I have alot of hindsight corrections but overall I am proud of the changes I made personally whether WW and I divorce or reconcile.

First to TD:
Thanks for the support. I am pro marriage all the way, but divorce is unavoidable in her eyes. I will continue to Plan A her for as long as I can tolerate it and not get walked all over, even after divorce. I've started a new hobby. I'm couponing to save money and am excited about it. I'm getting better at scheduling time and doing on my own all the chores required to run this household. I love the time I get to spend with my kids and doing new activities with them.


Now for the rest. I appologize if the following offends anyone, but I need to vent.
}
}
}
}
I dropped of the kids this morning at my in-law's house to spend thier time with their mommy. She answered the door wearing just a robe, which irks me because we're divorcing and she should be more modest around me. I notice she has on a new ring. Rose gold with 3 marquis cut amethysts and 2 square cut diamonds/czs. She's wearing this ring on her wedding ring finger. My cheating wh*** of a wife is wearing a ring from her POSOM on her ring finger and we haven't even signed the final papers yet. Not only is she acting like a self-gratifying child, but she has the gaul to symbolize her dishonest sinful descent into moral oblivion with a such a disrespectful display. Such disregard for our family, children, and my emotions is outrageous. For the first time in my life I wanted to hit a woman. I wanted to slap her across the face and tell her to remove that sickening hunk of metal from her hand while in my presence. I'm ashamed of my reaction, but hope and pray and wish that she felt any shame for her egregious violation of our vows before God and all of our friends and family.

Ugh i'm so sick of feeling this way. I will persevere and see this through to the end for the sake of my children and because I stand for what is good and right under God's law, not the moral decay that our current cesspool of a society supports as right.

If you are reading this you are in doubt about what is right or wrong for you and your marriage; look inside your heart, listen to the voice of the Spirit, pray and know the truth. God loves marriage and hates divorce.

I feel the same way because POSOM proposed to my WW. She said no but who knows what's going on in affairville. You handled it correctly IMHO. There were and still are many times I wanted to grab my WW and shake some sense into her. Am I ashamed of feeling that way yes but I am proud that I didn't and you should be to. Dr. Harley says the pain a BS experiences is that of losing a child and I agree. Someone here can't remember who has a signature line stating if there was a medicine or shot to induce the pain and betrayal into a WS or would be WS so they can empathize with the hurt and sorrow they are/will inflict upon their family. Stay the course and if you can't there is always Plan B.

My WH came to pick me up at the hospital after I deliverd our 2nd dd wearing a beaded piece of junk on his ring finger. I had a really visceral reaction as well.. Wanted to chop his finger off. POSOW was going around claiming she was his wife as well. Waywards are cruel human beings... No they aren't human, they are aliens devoid of the ability to empathize and sympathize. Continue cleaning up your side and hopefully oneday soon WW will pull her head out of her @ss and realize the crap she is doing. Hipe you are taking care of yourself.

Thanks for letting me know what I'm feeling is normal. Some of the things that have come into my head in regards to POSOM have been down right sadistic and bordering on the sociopathic. I have never experienced rage and hatred as I have since all this crap hit the fan. Even after the first EAs and the 1st PA. I don't know what it is about this time. I think I know a little of what NP was talking about in his story when he held that crowbar. It's chilling to the mind, but feels right at the time.

I guess I finally got to a point where I can't stand it anymore and realized I need to stand up for what's right. I needed to stand up to her and not enable her. I know marriage is forever and even after we are divorced there will be that connection. I will make sure my soul is ready to answer for what I've done. I pity her and pray for her if she never wakes up.

Mijunleigh,

Rose gold with 3 marquis cut amethysts and 2 square cut diamonds/czs.

Sounds tacky and loud, the more gaudy the ring the faster the relationship will end.

God Bless
Gamma

I thought the same Gamma lol.

it really does look bad. If i can get a pic of it tomorrow I will. I'm gonna plaster it on FB. It really is hideous. She hasn't acknowleged it.

Speaking of tomorrow. I got her to agree to lunch with me and the kids. Tomorrow is her day with them, but my brother is getting married and I'm the best man so we need to drive about 3 hours to get to the rehearsal dinner. I'm thinking a picnic in the park if the weather is good. Chicken, fruit, some fresh baked cookies. Is there anything else I should bring? Any pointers? This will be the first time we speak for more than 2 minutes since she left at the beginning of March.

Here's one don't FB the pic lol. Keep the convo light and no relationship talk.

Light convo and relationship/legal/custody talk already on the avoid list. Note to self try to restrain myself on the FB post.

Lol. The ring is conspicuously absent, and miraculously she is wearing modest clothing and hiding her more prominent features. we'll see how the rest of the afternoon does.

Yesterday WW informed me that she would mow be representing herself in cout. I have mixedfeelings about this because she is now defenseless and it gives me huge advantage. But i also have tried really hard to keep the playing field even. I suppose i should look at this as another one if her consequences for poor judgment and immorality.

Today she said she would be going out.of state, likely beginning on father's day. Sbe's leaving for a week and wanted to know if i wanted to.have the kids go with or stay with me. Umm silly question, do i look like someone who wants my kids around an adulterous woman and her drug-using, loser of an AP for a week where they'll be exposed to God knows what kind of moral decrepitude?

Yes you need to look at as protecting your kids and yourself.

If we wants to represent herself and continue her affair, then these are consequences of her bad choices.

Have you done a background check on OM?

Yes keep the kids. You're documenting all of this, correct?

Yes the kids will certainly stay with me. I think we'll go on a vacation of our own. Why not if I'm taking the time off. Maybe go down and camp out on the beach, visit family and stuff.

It is so hard to keep myself in the mindset of a devoted and loving husband and at the same time to let go of her and let her fall on her face.

I did a background on the POS and he came up with multiple possession and paraphernalia charges and some speeding tickets and a public intoxication. I think he lost his license because of the speeding, drugs, and his failure to appear and then the trail just stops. Likely because he isn't driving anymore so no way to catch him with the garbage.

I document everything. Smartphones are amazing tools in divorce. I use an app called Divorce Log. It keeps everything in a calendar format. I can put in color coded notes for the dates things take place. I use my phone's voice recorder to grab all of our face to face conversations. I record all of our calls with another app. And I ported my old phone number to Google Voice and she calls and texts me on it. I have a time-stamped online record of every text message between us and she doesn't have my real number. I can cut her off completely with the click of a button.

I'm beginning to wonder what I should do for WW for mother's day. I've invited her to join us for church. I could do dinner for her and the kids. I've also toyed with the idea of giving her a candlelight massage like I used to. Don't know if she'll go for that though, might be too much too soon. Maybe just have it ready when we get home from a nice dinner or something. She has only just started joking with me again.

The kids only want to get her flowers, they can't think of anything else good to do for a girl. I'm gonna help them make some homemade cards to give her.

Does anybody have any other ideas or suggestions on what I've got so far.

Are you sure she's going to be celebrating with you and the kids? Will she be with OM?

She has made sure to ask to have the kids available for the day because Sunday is my day with them. My stance is for me to involve her in the day because it's Mother's day. Whether she's willing to go along with any of it remains to be seen. She may just ask to have them for the day and drop them off that night.

You're in Plan A until the D, correct?

Make plans and invite her along. Tell her it's your day, but you would love to have her join you. Then put on your best Plan A.

Probably go a little after depending on her responsiveness. I don't really have a deadline set. I've dealt with so much pain I didn't think was possible, I know I can take more without cracking. And women need like 6 months of Plan A anyway from what I recall.

Plan A All the way FTW! I want that beautiful sexy woman I married to come back, the woman I chose to be the mother of my kids, the woman I know is in there somewhere.

Had a talk with my bishop today. We discussed things i need to do to get back on a more righteous path. Got some great advice and some good parenting tips too. Lived the bent nail principle.

You can throw it away or you can straighten it. And when you try to
straighten you get better results with a post on the back than a whack on
the head.

Good philosophy if you ask me.

Dr. Harley actually recommends BH to Plan A up to two years if they can handle it. Only 3 weeks for BW. Men can handle it more, but everyone has their limits.

How are you doing with that? Eating? Sleeping?

Did you ever email the Harleys?

Sorry I've been silent for so long. About the time BH was posting I was on the way to the ER. I was there till last Thursday with a fun thing called a nasogastric tube. This is a wonderful torture device. The stress finally caught up with me I guess. But I feel so much better now. I'm surprised I lasted this long. I am working on treating this so I don't end up in the ER again. Mentally I can handle the anguish she puts me through, my body just needed a break for a couple of days.

I'm eating well. I've gained back most of the weight I lost when she came clean about the affair. I lost it because of not having any appetite and worry over her. I'm doing my best to eat well, but I cook for 1 most of the time so TV dinners end up being my main fare. I do well for breakfast and lunch. I've found a friend who is open to doing some back and forth cooking to experiment with different cuisines. This week will be Indian. Soon Korean!

Sleep is better. I still wake up early sometimes and sometimes still wake at night with cold sweats. But I get much more sleep than a few months ago. And I'm not using the sleeping pills except maybe once every couple of weeks.

I have not yet contacted the Harleys and I know my time is running out. Her heart is set on this foul divorce. I think she's trying to get done so she can get married to the loser. Ugh, makes me sick, and he's such an ugly, dumb, [censored] too. I don't know what she's thinking. That's all I can stomach for now. I'll keep you posted.

mijunleigh, I am so sorry to hear about your hospital stay. Plaese take care of yourself!

Perhaps, in light of this, Plan B is in order?

Thanks for your concern, but I'm not ready for Plan B yet. If I may make a confession. I have a disease which is exacerbated by stress. I was diagnosed when I was 13. I have been in remission for 3 years. I have not been treating it while in remission and I should have. It finally caught up with me. This was purely a combination of things. But I've watched people overcome cancer, I know this little thing isn't going to stop me.

That is a great attitude to have! Be well, my friend

Quite seriously, you have just been shown that your health will not tolerate continued contact with her.

I respectfully disagree. This was not only related to her stress, but other things as well. I am supposed to be treating myself while in remission. I have not done this. I admit my failing here and am working to correct it. I should not be putting myself at risk of this for the sake of myself and my kids. But I sincerely believe treatment will keep it from happening again.

While WW does cause me stress I have become more and more accustomed to her lunacy. Many times now I find it laughable. I find myself more at peace these days than I have been in a long time. God gave me the right to choose; and I choose to continue to fight for what is right. If this happens again I will certainly reconsider.

WW has been blowing up my phone asking me to have the atty send her a final proposal, or to get a copy and forward it to her, etc. I hate this. I don't want this damned divorce. What should I say? I've been ignoring her texts for now. I don't know what I should do. Any advice?

She keeps asking what I want, and if we can come to an agreement. What I want to tell her is to dump her BF, come home, fulfill her marriage vows, be a real mother, restore her faith, listen to her morals, and be safe.

Don't do anything that helps her with divorce proceedings. She's trying to represent herself, correct? She will have to figure it out.

Have you laid out a picture for her that it won't be a "friendly" divorce as long as she is with her OM?

Ok I won't help and won't respond. How should I best present an unfriendly picture while still conforming to Plan A. Bring up the financial complications, living arrangements, missing the kids, keeping them from a drug user and potential abuser, her drug use, her breaking her morals?

You calmly paint her the picture post divorce.

You will not be her friend. You will not help her financially at all. You will go for FULL custody of your children.

Have you ran a background check on OM?

You also apologize for your mistakes in the marriage and you would like her to join you in a fulfilling romantic marriage.

Yeah I've run his background. Possesion, paraphernalia, public intoxication, lost his license. Keeps on smoking. And she's right there with him.

When you say FULL custody what do you think of. I have primary custody, she will get standard visitation. Or are you talking about supervised, or no visitation at all?

So OM isn't allowed around your kids, correct?

I'm thinking supervised if she can't keep your children safe from OM.

What is her visitation now? Does she have to come to the house to see them? This would be ideal and give You excellent opportunity to Plan A.

I have told her he is not. We have a children's bill of rights in place saying the kids are not to be in the presence of a person we are romantically or intimately involved with.

Right now she sees "has" the kids most of the day at her parent's house while I'm at work. There is always another adult present while they are there. She picks them up from school, then usually goes to work about an hour later so she only sees her son for about an hour a day during the school year. She gets overnights on monday and every other friday. This is more than I would like. If I could, I'd take away the overnights. Her family doesn't let her leave while the kids are in residence.

POSOM is her co-worker so she see's him most days. I know she spends nights with him now and then because she keeps an overnight bag in her van. Even saw a new bedding set in there the other day, but that might be for the futon she sleeps on. Her grandmother will be moving in with her family soon. This will make 6 adults in their home plus the 2 kids, but only 4 bedrooms. She and the kids share a room right now. They will likely get bumped into the office when grandma arrives.

She had me spend extra time with the kids while I was in the hospital because her family needed a break. Yet in the same breath talked about how she would keep them while I was there, then said things about my mother picking them up and watching them on my schedule saying that my mom was trying to take her place.

Remind me, where you live does adultery have any weight in the D?

And her family is ok with supporting her affair?

no we live in TX no fault state. Adultery would give me a greater portion of the marital assets if I can prove she wasted money on her affairs. Unfortunately she has been on a cash only basis for almost 2 years. Nothing in the bank account to prove it other than a couple of fast food meals. She did rack up some toll road charges though before i took her off the account.

Her family thinks it's best for her to be "happy". They "don't condone adultery" but they won't do anything to stop it. I've tried. She got to them before I could expose to them and they only see me as some abusive control freak demon who won't let her go out and have fun. They don't care about the drinking or drugs as long as she doesn't do it in front of the kids, or get drunk when she's alone with them. They don't seem to know or care about her wanting to commit suicide for basically the whole time I've known her. That's her "private business" and she will tell them "what they need to know". The whole thing makes me sick. My family wouldn't stand for me doing any of this if the situation was reversed. They would be all over me and completely on her side.

Is there anyway you could ask to sit down with her mom or dad or some relative and ask them to listen to your side?

No. Twice I have had a sit down with her parents, and offered to let them hear what was going on with her. I was brutally attacked and vilified. Anything I said was immediately dismissed as an attempt to hurt their baby. They believe it is all my fault and I drove her to this.
Her younger brother and sister will not see me. Her older sister is a whack job who had Elvis walk her down the aisle while her father sat in the front row. Her biological mother...I'm not sure about her. I don't have her contact info. In general the world revolves around her though.

If he is a dopehead then she may be smoking dope with him.
If she IS and DOES have it in her system, you can file an emergency petition (ex parte) with the court and the court will order her to take a drug test, on your dime.
If she tests positive or is a no show then she looses custody.

My cousin in California lost her kids for 6 months because her husband (recently released from prison) filed this and he got full custody for 6 months!

Now as for OM I would go beyond child bill of rights.
I would fight for FULL custody.
This guy is a worthless dopehead and you dont want your kids around him.
You may be able to file an anonymous "tip" with the employer that he is using or selling drugs in the parking lot. If they test him he may be positive and loose his job.

Oh I know she smokes dope with him. She's admitted to doing it back in Jan and Feb. with him and "maybe been around it" other times and I have it on tape. She even talked about wanting to smoke a "cigarette" while I drove her to the crisis center at the beginning of March. She HATES smoking, that's one of the things we have argued about for years. I haven't brought it up with her at all since then. She has recently taken our kids out bowling with him, picked him up to take him to work, and today (well yesterday now) they went and played at his house with her friend who has a little boy in my son's class. The children have told me all this. They call him Mr. B. I about vomited. Then my son was more than happy to show me where this POS lives. Right in my neighborhood, 2 blocks away! And I think WW is planning on moving in with the sack of $&*T!

I was just thinking. What if I finalized the divorce and let her stew in her smoke filled bliss with dipwad for a few weeks, then filed the for the ex parte?

I suggest you speak with your attorney an request a Guardian ad Litem (GAL) for your kids.

My ex wife had an affair with a drug addict and I took immediate steps to protect the kids from him.
Harley frequently mentions that alcoholics and addicts place children at risk. In one Iowa study, 70% of alcoholics in a treatment center admitted to molesting their own daughters while drunk.

I wouldn't delay anything.
Do you have an attorney?

Does she have a history of mental illness?

What type of company does OM work for?
Large, small?
Office, construction?

I have an attorney, we live in a conservative county and our judge was a GAL for 25yrs. WW has had 2 "psychotic breaks", a history of suicidal thoughts, never touched illegal drugs till this guy, diagnosed with anxiety and depression, possibly a borderline diagnosis but i can't be sure on that.
POSOM is now working at the local movie theater according to my 6 year old. The new love shack is deeper in the ghetto than i already live, and is certainly more beat up. Looks like a 4plex. I think she plans to move in with him as soon as D is final.

Sent a message to the woman who brought her son and went with my WW and kids to the POSOM's house saying the kids shouldn't be exposed to him. This was my WW's response:

Just as an fyi...there is nothing in the childrens bill of rights that states anything about new relationships. It is all about us being good parents to them and helping them with the transition.
In other words they can be around him.

This coupled with the love shack discovery has made me livid. I'm going to the shooting range tonight to blow off some steam. And i'm bringing the heavy rifle and some shotgun slugs with me. Need some pain to move from my heart to my shoulder. A couple hundred big rounds oughta do the trick.

If your lawyer is not doing what it takes to protect your kids, then you need a new lawyer.

Need advice on how to handle this. Oh and FYI tomorrow is WW's 29th birthday.

So I forgot to unblock WW number when the kids went into her possession. I do this to prevent harrassment. She somehow found my real number. The following is the text conversation after speaking with my children and telling them goodnight over the phone.

Me: i have unblocked you. 8:51 PM
WW: And MIL too? 8:52 PM
Me: yes 8:52 PM
WW: I get that you don't want to talk to me. Believe me. I would NOT be calling you. But the kids wanted to say goodnight. I didn't know what else to do. 8:53 PM
Me: You could have tried to console your children for starters. I won't be there to care for you, comfort you, help you and provide for you anymore. I can't have your back when your family doesn't. Mine was always there for you, and what did you do with the gift of love that they offered; expecting only to have their love returned. You have made your choice and have to live with that. Maybe one day you can earn it again. 9:31 PM
Me: You have a responsibility to our children when they are in your care. You need to keep that in the forefront of your mind and teach them the way you know we wanted them to grow up. The values we want them to have. You need to exemplify that always. This is why I choose not to speak to you. If you can't handle this, then maybe I need to make other arrangements for their care. 9:34 PM
WW: (1/2) I did console my children. Stop acting like you are dad of the year. Stop trying to make me feel bad abut something that you screwed up.and do not ever 9:34 PM
WW: (2/2) again question or put down my parenting. You are being awful to the mother of your children and i'm done listening. 9:34 PM
WW: (1/3) All you have to do is get me the papers and you will nothave me bothering you anymore. And I am not my own childrens day care provider. If I am why 9:38 PM
WW: (2/3) aren't you paying me? Get off your high horse man up and get your attys office to quot stonewalling me. I still have not gotten the supposed offer you 9:38 PM
WW: (3/3) spoke of. 9:38 PM
WW: Or do you not want a divorce? You still want me to come home and stay married? 9:41 PM
WW: I am done with this conversion. If you want to discuss anything further please do so during the daytime hours. The kids are trying to sleep 9:48 PM
Me: I would be willing to discuss anything of real substance with you. I tried and you attacked, again. I do hope there is no thunder with the rain storm that's rolling in. Good night. Sweet dreams, and sleep well. 9:57 PM
WW: (1/3) You continue to attack me first. I am defending myself. I am not afraid of storms anymore. And if you want to do something for my birthday, get me 10:01 PM
WW: (2/3) something to sign so we can file and be done. I am not paying your lawyer fees, but pretty much anything else well finalize this for me. I'm done 10:02 PM
WW: (3/3) arguing with you. if you don't give me something too sign tomorrow we will fight it out in court. Good night. 10:02 PM

Are you in Plan A or Plan B/D?

I'm in A for the long haul, but man it's frustrating and difficult.

Tips on what I've done wrong here and what my next move should be etc would be appreciated.

Yes it is. If you want to truly follow Plan A then you must at all costs avoid these kind of exchanges.

Do you think you made any LB deposits?

You aren't doing the paperwork for the D, are you?

My atty thinkz im insane if i try to work it out. My family is out of money. We have given our last dime to get what i have right now. The house and majority custody in a temp order. I was trying to paint a picture for her of what it will be like in D,as i havent done that yet. I usually ignore her AOs.

My family wants it done, but i dont want to end it because of the feelings that remain, and our childden shouldn't have to grow up in the broken home environment WW was in as a child. Crazy mom, bf over all the time, random vacations to shack up for a week, living with dead beats, god only knows what happened to her and her sister. Our children deserve better. I want to fight for that possibility. I know there is a way through MB.

I plan A when i can. Invite her for dinner and family activities. Continue to cover her medical and car insurance (though i ccould really use that money). Gifts. Offer her other overnights and time with the family on holidays. Invites to church.

One of my boundaries is to accept irrational demands from her. Last time i caved was when she wanted me to give an ansaer in 2 days next text was meet me at atty on 30 mins.

What should i have said to make the co.versation Plan A?

You gave her a lecture - "you should have..." You let her know that you and your family are better than hers. You told her you weren't going to be there for her to comfort, etc. when all she did was try to contact you because that's what your children wanted.

Your tone is one of punishment, not reconciliation. From her point of view, it may be that if she came back to you, it would be to avoid this punishment, but what new ways will surface when she comes back? For all her aggressive talk, she is afraid of you.

Even with all this, Plan A doesn't work with addicts. However, it appears she is still willing to engage with you, so you could use that opportunity to show her you're the right man for her, but not one lecture or you destroy the work you've been doing. Not one lovebuster on your part. I think it was in yesterday's show that Dr. Harley talks about when a spouse comes from withdrawal into conflict, it's forward progress. In your case, she'd be telling you all the things you've been doing wrong, and may not be particularly nice about it. It's what you do at that point that sets the course.

Thanks. You're right what i said to her came from an AO. Ididn't see how she was afraid. Is that what you saw here?
I'm going to go back and refresh myself on the lovebusters. I would value any input from others as well.

She will be dropping off the kids tonight and i was going to give her a flower and some of her favorite candy. Any tips for the conversation there? She will likely be headed out for a date w/POS. Id like to know a good way to appologize for what i said to her, and a way to try and repair.some of that damage.

I really don't know what to do about the D. The ball is in my court right now, all i have to do is tell the atty to give her some paper and she will likely sign, even if i ask for everything. The atty hasnt been stonewalling he's been waiting for a payment from me to continue. He now has enough to finish this thing if i give him a green light. I don't want this.

You are comparing apples and oranges.
Your wife's mom was single with boyfriends? That has nothing to do with you.
There have been several studies which indicate that kids in single parent father households turn out as good as kids from married homes.

Your kids may be better off without her and you may be much better off in plan B

I think you should fight for full custody with supervised visitation for her as long as he is in a relationship with a drug addict.
I would tell the attorney to fight hard for this.
I am also a single father (with full custody). My ex wife left for a drug addict and violent child abuser.

That's a very disrespectful, controlling lecture.

Lots of love bank withdrawals.

Ultimately you are not going to have control of your wife's relationship with your children. So it would be best just to give that up now. You can't make her be a good mom, and if she's wayward, she can't be, so don't waste any energy on these conversations.

You can't Plan A if you are having angry outbursts.

Start listening to Dr. Harley daily and reading everything he has to say about angry outbursts, abuse, and control.

As much as possible, I would drop focus on everything else and focus on these love busters. You have a LOT of learning to do in very little time.

I don't know about flowers and candy right before she has a date with OM. My opinion is that goes too far into the enabling position. Just greet her with a light mood, refrain from any disrespect and all, but save the gifting for recovery. Be pleasant, not over ingratiating. Remember there's no guarantee that you can get her back, especially on your timetable, but there's a guarantee that you can make her run away even faster. Like Markos said, focus on refraining from Lovebusters first.

Im going to say it again:
I think you should drop plan A and fight for full custody of your kids and enter plan B when that is achieved.

Perhaps you could email Dr Harley for advice?
Tell him that your wife is using drugs with her boyfriend and ask what he recommends

Stupid question but what's the email address for the harleys? I've tried searching the forums and can't find it.

Mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

Thanks. I'm going to draft up an email to the Harleys tonight when I get home.

Also if you become a caller you can receive a free book.


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Is it giving up if I finalize my divorce? I don't like the idea of doing it, but have been questioning myself much lately. She keeps asking rhetorical questions like "do you want to stay like this forever, married but not really?" and "do you think I'll just come home and live with you and the kids?" not to mention the infamous "i need to know what's in the final. Are you going to try and take my kids away from me?" The best response I have is silence right now. It certainly would make her fantasy life come to a screeching halt when she starts getting child support and medical support garnishments.

MIL appologized to me yesterday. Said she had misjudged me and had to swallow her pride and say she was sorry. Apparently WW has done something MIL doesn't approve of. Don't know if it was the overnights with the kids or something else. Need to find out gently. I invited MIL, FIL, SIL, BIL to come to a movie with me and the kids my treat. They declined.

I have not followed through on emailing the show.

Well follow through!

Why not?

another long stint of not being on the boards, but something happened last night. my wife texted me last night about 11 asking if I was still up.

she said there are lots of things she needs to talk about, but has to know it's between her and I. Then she said, "and my first question is are you seeing anyone? Because I don't want to get in the way." Then she said, "I want to talk. I do. Calmly. Without that crap in between us that makes us both edgy and defensive. But I don't trust you. You have never proven that I can trust that part of you. Can you promise me and trust me enough to tell me that you will not share anything I say to you to anyone from now on? For the sake of our kids. I could care less about me. Ppl already think I'm whatever now anyway. It's for them.

And here's a kicker:

I want to raise them the way I promised myself I would. They deserve the best. I have always thought that. Whether you believe it or not.

She then asked to meet at my lunch break, and drove her and the kids to the parking garage before I even said yes.

I went down and the highlights of the conversation were:

I'm not asking for everything to go back the way it was or to move in with you.
I don't want to feel trapped.
You weren't the husband I needed you to be(tears welled in her eyes).
I'm finding out things about myself and need to know that you will accept them.

I mostly let her talk, only prompted a little bit; threw in a joke here and there. She wants to meet again tonight at my place to talk more about what is best for the kids. I think this might be a good shot at a solid Plan A. Any translations, thoughts, or tactics?

Do you know if she's stopped all contact with all OM? Will she meet your conditions to work on recovery? Will she write a NC letter to all OM?

No, she still lives with the dude, that's what confused the heck outta me. I don't know what she want's and won't until tonight I guess. That's what is weird. I'm prepared for all kinds of alien thinking tonight though. I think I'll just try to be a good listener, and understand her point of view. She obviously thinks this is serious. Just wish I could find out what she is thinking.

Don't try to figure out what you're thinking because she's a wayward. Can you carry a VAR on you when you talk to her?

Watch her actions, if she's serious her actions will show you.

Maybe there is trouble in waywardville and the A is beginning to crumble.

There is indeed trouble in waywardville. Apparently she found that her AP is not meeting her needs and that she has certain things she needs done for her that will make her happy and loving. She says she needs to do what is right for the children, and that means mommy and daddy working together in whatever form that may take. Well there's only one form for me that that will ever happen. She said that I am "unfortunately the one who knows her best."

We talked about marriage, religion, her health, our old alternative lifestyle(not going into detail). Why I stand behind the door when she comes to get the children, and how she doesn't know what the inside of the house looks like. As a goodwil gesture I brought her inside, she said the kitchen was surprisingly clean. I have to say it's better and more often than she ever kept it. Why I did what I did back when we had D-Day 2. And several other things. No anger was felt on either side. Which is a first for quite some time. It was quite pleasant.

In the end I told her she's the one who has the decision to make. She went home to talk to her AP and see what she's gonna do and think about it. I also told her moving back in is not an option for some time.

And yes I recorded the whole thing. I also gave he a copy of SAA. I bought 2 about 6 months ago. Send some prayers our way.

Is she willing to work on your requirements for recovery? The ones I posted above? Did you give them to her?

She also needs to get a STD test.

I did not get the list till after. I will certainly be making these requirements of her and the STD test.

Good job.

Also read this so you can be armed with education on what to watch for in case it is needed.
False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience

False recoveries can be more painful than a Dday.

also no moving back in till a NC letter is in my hands for all OM I know about and any others she wishes to tell me about. No more social media. Several other things I can think of which have been posted here multiple times.

Good.

Make a list with all your conditions. Post them here for feedback.

Working on my list. No contact from her today. She did say she spoke with OM after we talked the other night. I suspect he said something to change her mind. She can fence sit all she likes, I will continue to improve myself as I have been doing. And I have the family commitment he will never be able to compete with. I have all the time in the world to work on me. We'll she how much she waffles. I'm hoping she reads the first few chapters of the SAA book.

Well I was wrong about her making up. Still rocky in her paradise I gather. She and I spoke a lot today. DS's first day of school gave me the opportunity. She cried a bit when she talked about what happened back in Jan. when I asked her to leave. Somewhat justified, because the whole thing backfired because of my AO that night, my heart was in the right place though. She still wavers and is fogged. She blames me for the whole thing and talked about how I drove her further into his arms. How I made her leave, and made her miserable and feel unsafe in our home. Her concerns are likely rooted in some truth and will need to be addressed but only after we actually come to an agreement about what really happened and get to the root of the problems.

She said she read the first few pages of SAA. Still have a long road to go. I'm considering going through with the divorce as a first step on the road for recovery. It makes me sick, but I think it needs to be done as something to give her the "freedom" she asks for. Maybe it will be enough to help lift the fog for good.

She's still unstable. She's shutting out her support system, quit taking her antidepressant, quit her primary job, now her second job cut her hours so she's looking for another job, she also wants to go to Oregon for a week just to get away from it all and talk to her mother about everything.

Waiting it out sucks. Any advice on whether I should go through with the divorce? Or whether I should invite her to move back in? Or when? I will get a lot of flak from the family if I don't. My parents have financed everything up to now. Mother said I would owe her a lot of money. Ultimately they are concerned about my getting hurt again. Nobody seems to believe there is a path to a loving, trusting, caring marriage after this.

So much more to say and ask. I keep grounded that there will be years of hard work ahead no matter how we go about it. My hope remains though.

Hi mijunleigh,

I wouldn't go through with the divorce for the reason you gave above. I think the first step to recovery is no contact, not divorce. Anyway, I'm happy to hear that your wife is finally coming to her senses and the reality of the affair is kicking in. You've waited this long, you can wait a little longer. In the mean time, I think you should post your list of requirements for feedback here, and think about how you would ensure no contact. Would you have to move?

Also I would make it clear to your wife that if you reconcile, you will not be going back to the way things were, but that you will work on having a loving, happy marriage where you are both madly in love with each other.....or something to that effect.

A love letter might help to convey the message and push her over the fence. Don't people write love letters anymore?!

Good luck! I'm sending prayers your way

Nothing has changed.

All she is doing is testing the waters to make sure you are still an option.

She is not remorseful - she doesn't shoulder the blame - she would like you to share some responsibility. She has taken absolutely NO actions other than "talk" to OM (surrrrre she has....)

All she did was crack open your plan B and put to waste all of those weeks and months of progress.

Please continue on your path -- go to a true Plan B, let the divorce proceed -- let her keep wondering what the inside of your house looks like....

I think you should proceed with divorce.
This is the ideal time to divorce her and get custody of your kids

We are in similar situations, man. I think you should go through divorce and slow the process. Remember filing isn't actually divorce. Not sure if you are in Plan B or not but I would Plan A. That is the advice I got from the good doctor. Just file and set yourself up legally and also get temporary child support.

Hmmm, she's started flirting with me via text now. Said it was because she "was trying to break some if the tension. Make you smile, have a good day at work, you know. I was picturing you with that s*** eating grin of yours. :-)"

I liked it. Is this weakness or should I consider it good plan A?

She wants to make you the OM! Ha.
Don't let her play with you like that.

You need to take an all or nothing stance.

Obviously the affair is imploding, and she wants to get back to the place where you met a bunch of her needs and OM did the rest.
DO NOT PROP UP THE AFFAIR BY INTERACTING WITH HER.

What will happen is she will start sneaking around with you and waffling back and forth between you and OM.

Don't do it.

Make sure the affair is good and dead before you have any more interactions with her.

TY for the info Lexxxy.

Cheating on the OM with her husband. WOW there are no depths to the depravity of the wayward mind.

mijunleigh are you in plan A or B? Maybe you should write to the Harleys and see what they think.

I think you should write to the Harleys TODAY. Just email them, maybe they will call you back ASAP.

I just read your whole thread and I have to say that all along, it doesn't seem like your wife really wanted to leave you, she was just foggy! Obviously she misses you!

However, you HAVE TO GIVE HER YOUR REQUIREMENTS and not just "be nice" to her because she misses you.

Tell her, in no uncertain terms, that you want her back AS YOUR WIFE. However, you need X,Y,Z and A,B,C. Otherwise, you are done. Let HER decide! Obviously she is coming out of the fog enough to realize that POSOM isn't all that great, and that she misses you and your cute smile! She WANTS to come back, you need to force her to rise up, and do the right thing. End all contact with other men, put in extraordinary precautions.

I would not divorce her just now, but I'd see if you can get her to agree to reconcile and follow the MB principles. Otherwise, if you let her back in to your life, she will just do the same thing again. It HAS TO be all or nothing.

And if she is still living with OM I'd be very wary of letting her even have any time with you. Really. If she is with OM, she cannot have (see/talk/etc.) you too.

I am not caught up on this thread, but I see that JK and some experienced posters are cautioning you. I would heed their warnings.


It is typical for a WW to cake-eat, want her BH to continue meeting some needs that the OM isn't.

This isn't evidence of "coming out of the fog".

I can't caution you enough to please not get roped back in.

What are her actions? What has she done to show you she's serious about recovery? Did she send a NC to OM? Has she opened all her contacts to you? Has she changed her contact information?

Has she been STD/STI tested?

I'm sorry, but I think she knows the Divorce was getting close and she's trying to "work" you. We've seen way too many BH get hosed in the D because their wives played them.

Tell us what her actions have been.

Also, where are your list of conditions????

lonely4, I would caution you against jumping into a thread and giving such advice when you don't seem to be experienced with affairs and how to handle them when the wayward refuses to end contact, especially when your advice conflicts with others who have years of experience here.

Ending the D petition could have legal/financial ramifications for this poster and doesn't make any sense as a course of action for him just because his WW is cake eating and talking to him. The poster has people who have been through D and this exact situation guiding him.

Also please read (again if I already posted to you).

Please Explain Gaslighting

SusieQ

I liked the rest of lonely's post. I think it was correct and within the lines of the MB principles.

But I do agree that by remaining in the marriage weakens my legal stance. For the protection of myself and my children I do feel I need to complete the divorce proceedings and pick up from there. We would still be able to rebuild and reconcile from that point forward with the ultimate goal of remarriage when our dream of mutual happiness is achieved.

BH,

I'm still reading through that article, but I think she and I have both done this. I think you posted this more because she's doing it now. I'm trying very hard to be wary of everything she says and does.

Ok good. I just want you to be protected. So when are you filing for D?

It's already been filed. We're under temp orders now. We have agreed on medical support and visitation for the kids. Only things left is child support and my retirement funds.

You will be getting full custody?

Did you have it written to where the OM isn't allowed to be around your kids?

CS, she pays you?

I have primary custody and she only sees the kids a few days a week with no overnight visits. She will pay child support, half of medical costs for kids, and half of their insurance cost.

WW moved out of the apt today. She's pretty broken up about the whole thing. I'm going to start going through the SAA book with her soon. She showed it to me today, she actually made some noted in the margins of the first couple chapters. She still needs to do a NC letter, and put some EPs in place. She's not yet sold on whether this can work yet. But i have told her the book and it's companions hold the plan, and that this is the only way it can be successful. I hope to introduce get to the forums at some point. Happy labor day. :-)

I'm happy for you and wish you the best in recovery. Things happen mysteriously don't they? Keep the bar high and post your EPs so the vets can edit them. You might want to go on the show again with your WW.

When is she going to write the NC letter?

He pretty much made NC a given when he threatened us and the children last night. I called the police. She did not enjoy sitting huddled in the hallway in the pitch black clutching our children to her while hubby stood watch over them with a loaded shotgun. It has been an interesting weekend. no worries im still going to have her write a NC letter. She did tell him not to contact again or a restraining order would be filed. Then she blocked his number. I'm happy with that for now. I would really watch drama on TV than have it in my life. I need a vacation. Maybe next payday.

File a restraining order regardless.

File a restraining order.

Protect her. And your family.

You only said she moved "out" but didn't really tell us where she moved "in". I assume with you? Which we would have told you was premature.

She needs to demonstrate some stability.

However, since that is water under the bridge, I suggest you follow the MB recovery plans to a "T" -- no deviation.
Take that phone out of her hands. Not just a blocking.
Cuz he'll just call from a different number...

Yes she lives with me right now. I agree that it was way to soon, but she was homeless and had all of 50 bucks to her name. As much as I know she needs to stand on her own 2 feet I couldn't leave her alone at the time. She was not prepared to face her parents because she has alienated all of her good friends and her family. She thought of going to stay with a friend, but there's no way I want her associating with anyone she's called friend in the last year. For now I have to be a roommate. And quite frankly I've been on suicide watch, not leaving her side since Sunday. She has responded quite favorably to being here with me though. We got her a small spot in the closet, bathroom, and dresser for all her things. I'm going to make some small changes to the space so she will feel more comfortable and she can have her personal time. She will be paying part of the bills and doing some housekeeping to cover rent. She knows that this is still my home until she decides to "come back" and follow all the MB principles. I asked her the other day what she believes, and she said she believes it will work, but she wants to get through her withdrawal first. I'm doing my best to keep from getting used. I don't want this to end up with her walking out on the family again. So much to watch out for here, but she would have ended up in a worse situation than she was in if I hadn't stepped up to show her I'm still her friend and husband.

She's going to file the RO today. NC letter was sent last night. I had her include some info about their financials because there was some dispute about that. Of course he broke it immediately. She has stood firm and openly disclosed it to me this morning. She has now changed her phone number, dropped her FB accounts. But then I had to go to work. She has been keeping in touch with me throughout the day as well. All in all promising.

He broke the RO? How? Did you report it?

no he broke her request for NC. the RO appears to be more difficult to get. she wasn't able to get it. She's been running all over at gov't offices all day. she will do an emergency protective order tomorrow at the police station. that will stand while we figure out the RO legal garbage.

How he do it? Did she tell you? What happened to make her realize her mistake? Did he hit her or something? Did the leak get plugged?

If he was there threatening violence and intimidation with a shotgun, and the local police will not do anything, then get a copy of the police incident report and go to the States Attorneys office and have them follow through with the Restraining Order.

LTL

TD,

He sent her 5 emails from 1030 to 130 asking her to come back, threatening, and asking for this month's rent. She willingly told me about it the morning when she found the emails. We will plug the holes as we find them. She realized he was not what he appeared to be when she moved in. He began to change and didn't meet her needs. She then realized on her own that she actually has needs all on her own. Thankfully he has not physically abused her in any way, yet. This man has it in him. He was escorted home from 2 counties away just over a week ago, because he got in a fight with a female at a party where he was drunk.

LTL,

He didn't have the shotgun, I did in defense of my family. I live in Texas. Believe me when I say I wish this POS had set foot on my property, he would have been properly dealt with.

Don't mess with Texas. Mel will be happy to see this.

She needs a new email address.

And all other contact information needs to be changed.

TD and BH. This is in progress. We're bouncing between the house during the day and my in-laws place right now. DD and WW are bonding/cleaning this morning. I'm going to help her with the email change tonight. Mail forwarding has been done. She is also going to get off the lease today.

Good.

Is she willing to join you in a MB program?

she's reading through SAA. she hates when people write in the margins of books. She showed me her copy. She wrote a note to me on the open fly page, and has noted the crap out of the first few chapters. when she's done she plans to write another note on the back fly and give it to me. she's studying right now curled up in a chair with a pencil in her hand. I was so excited when she showed me. she said before she believes it's possible for us to be together and happy. I'm waiting on her decision right now.

Will she come here to post?

I am certainly going to ask her. I have told her that there are those who understand and can help us through the process. I have to prepare her though for some harsh criticism. Generally when she receives constructive criticism; she shuts down or bolts. Hopefully she receives a fair reception.

She will receive support. If she comes on here as a foggy wayward she will receive some good constructive criticism. If she comes on here to learn MB and is willing to put actions to her lessons then she will do really well.

mijunleigh, happy to have stopped by and seen this wonderful turn of events. Seems your ww is really giving it a shot. Good luck!

I think I have pushed her too fast and too hard. She says she feels unsafe around me. She knows I will protect her from the outside world, but she doesn't feel safe around me. She doesn't want me to touch her and has no feelings of attraction or love whatsoever. She wants no intimacy at all, but we often flirt and until a few days ago were physically close and even intimate a couple times. I often give her foot and back rubs because she works on her feet, it's something I do to show care for her. She just assumes that I'm always trying to go for more. We've had that problem in the past, but most of her hesitation is due to the loss of affection towards me I'm sure. It's been gone a long time according to her.

She brought up the topic of divorce yesterday based on my thinking that we needed it in order to get a fresh start. I told her this when she first came back because that's where I was at the time. I have changed and wanted to stay married since she has been home and I've been caring for her. She has done some good things for me fulfilling my needs and I have been trying to make my home a place for us "our home".

I have brought up the topic of her coming on here, and I want for us to fill out the EN questionnaire again. I'm hoping to find out what her tops are and how I can start working on them. I'm going off of what I knew her needs to be before she left and I'm sure they have changed a bit after being with POSOM and many of the new experiences she has had. Should I continue with the divorce and go for the clean slate, or should I try to buy time? If buying time is the best how can I get it? I'd love to see her post, finish reading SAA, fill out the EN forms and give me a few weeks to work on meeting them before we say it's done.

This almost sucks as much as when she was gone. At least then I didn't have to live with the flip flop in my head so much.

Since you have temp custody I would ask your lawyer what your odds are of getting full custody if you proceed with divorce now

It sounds very much like the affair is still on. Sorry

Did she ever send a NC letter and change all of the ways that she had contact with the OM (email, phone number, close social networking?)

This is the thing: You need to almost assume the affair is still on until you can verify that it isn't.

I see that a NC letter was sent. Was it the one fashioned after the one in SAA aside from the $$ information?

She sent the NC letter before I gave the OK, but we drafted it together and in similar spirit to the NC letter in SAA.

I have a security camera in the home and have verified all locations she has been. She closed all her online accounts, changed her cell number, but left 1 email address open ostensibly to take care of a water and electric bill at the love shack.

She has been honest about all her communications and whereabouts. She even told me about an email she received the other day. She didn't reveal the content, but I'm sure it was a plea to get her back and apparently she fell right into the trap. I never should have allowed the email to remain open, I wanted her to mail the check. She just broke no contact to go and give him the money for the water bill on a long break from work. His dealer's car was there. I feel like an utter fool, and I can't remember how to deal with this in a MB way.

She won't put down the crackpipe. This all should have been taken care of before you allowed her back into the home....

Is this still your plan?

I would have her move out until she is willing to completely commit to NC, and she probably shouldn't have access to the internet unless you are sitting right there next to her.

Time to raise the bar. By the looks of your signature line, this woman has put you and your children through hell and the plan you are following now, it is just going to continue.

So she met him after Sept 3?

Absolutely proceed with divorce. Instruct your atty that you want full custody of your children;

in the interim you should remain in plan a until you are able to force her out of the house ;during this time you should also have a voice recorder on you at all times (do not let her know about it keep it a secret but many cheating wives have been known to falsely accused her husbands of abuse and have been thrown out of the house do not allow yourself to be placed into this situation)

The MB way to deal with this scenario in plan a is to figure is to vigorously oppose the affair while simultaneously attempting to meet the cheating spouse's emotional needs ;
so in in this particular case for reestablished contact with the affair partner should be exposed: an exposure email should be sent to family and friends stating "dear family and friends as you may know of my wife has been carrying on an ongoing affair with with this man, she recently committed to working on our marriage but I have learned that they have re-established contact and are continuing the affair; if you have any influence with her please persuade her to end her affair and to work on saving our family"

during this time you need to ensure that you are committing no love busting behavior

Thanks JK. I've had the VAR on hand. I really hate to go through with the D but i guess i really do have to. She only did it today a few minutes before i posted. Unfortunately the guy lives 3 blocks from me and 1 block from her employer. she said she stopped by tk give the POSOM the money she owed him. Said she felt better about leaving him because she now doesnt have to worry so much that she ruined his life. I almost choked holding in that response. Some things waywards say about give me a coronary! I really cant afford to move, i have no savings and no hope of finding a rent/living situation like i have now. I think i do need to get her out, hopefully to her parents; otherwiss she's gonna end up in some bad situation or another. I'm really scared for her. I just wish she cared enough to give my opinions some thought beyond instant rejection.

As long as the OM is a couple of blocks away, R really isn't going to be possible.

Even if you were to move away and end THIS affair, because your WW is a serial cheater, you realize that you would need even more EPs? ALL opportunity for an affair would need to be eliminated. That means that you spend all free time together. Your WW probably shouldn't do things like errands and shopping without you and probably shouldn't have open access to the internet.

Did she take your children with her?

Is she still living with you?! I would ask her to leave after this latest transgression. I know you will be worried about her living situation but that isn't your problem. She should of thought of that before she broke NC.

Sorry for the novel. Been a looong day.

Well we had a melt-down. And she moved out. This morning my DD said to WW something to the effect of "Daddy said you would stay if we gave Mommy lots of hugs and cuddles." Needless to say WW melted down and said I was using the kids as weapons against her. I did inform her that Family Commitment was my secret weapon nobody but a BS has it. I would never manipulate my children. Here it is if you would like to see it unfold: (she had gone to a blood donation center)


I came home from work early and she was taking a shower. I typed up an AO/ultimatum letter:



Her response:


WW then began sorting all of her clothes to pull out what was no longer worn or outright trash. We continued to talk and it came out that she was seriously considering going back to POSOM. I sent a message to MIL and she called. After the conversation WW came back inside in tears. She asked if I would take away the kids if she went back to POSOM. I said Yes I would have to.

I got to the root of the issue. She feels that one of the times we were intimate, just after she arrived, bordered on assault. We have had issues with limits in the past and this event coupled with that past have caused her to loath being in my presence. She and I did get intimate a couple of times after that so I didn't feel so bad about crossing her line even though I knew we shouldn't have engaged in the first place. I should have been attempting to help her through withdrawal and not fill my or her need for SF. I feel awful knowing how she perceives the encounter. Though the only times we have had issues with the limits are when she imposes them because she feels not so friendly towards me. It's terribly confusing. I've often accused her of using sex as a weapon. She is now out of the house.

MIL is encouraging her to take care of herself and stand on her own two feet. Without a gentleman friend for the time being, hopefully she stays away from POSOM. MIL and I both agree that if WW is to bring another man into her life it should be well after WW is stable and he should be someone who fits into the picture. I would rather it end up being me in the end. I suppose we'll see. WW maintains that while I may dislike him POSOM is still a good person. Oh and she never viewed him as an AP. Looks like it's going to be Plan D for me sooner rather than later. I'll still Plan A her whenever I get the chance. Hopefully she stays away from POSOM.

Did you actually say this? You shouldn't have. The burden of keeping mommy home has nothing to do with what your kids do, or don't do. I will wager that your WW would not leave unless there was a man in the picture. She isn't going to leave and 'stand on her own two feet'. WW's don't leave their house and children unless they have another offer that they perceive is better. OM is that offer.

Don't EVER tell your WW that the kids are your secret weapon.

I may have missed some of your posts: are you actually considering having her live with you as a roommate, now or after divorce??

No I didn't actually say that. My DD interpreted it that way. I wanted them to be extra nice to Mommy because she was feeling bad.

I didn't say the kids are my secret weapon, I was referring to Family Commitment. No man can fill this need greater than a father. It was the only EN I could meet for her while she was living with POSOM. I said it was my secret weapon when we were discussing the EN in the SAA book.

I was considering it as "married roommates". I at one time considered it after divorce to facilitate more Plan A and UA time to reestablish a connection with her. She was on board with the idea, but this was a horrible thought. It doesn't matter now, she's not coming back and I know how bad and idea it was to try. Note to other BH in a divorce proceeding watch yourself.

If you're going to divorce, you should divorce. Planning to divorce to get Plan A time doesn't make any sense.

Those who reunite after divorce usually do so because the wayward has come hat in hand ready to make all the changes, and it doesn't sound like that'd be the case...and since you'd be divorced I don't see it working out for you, since she would have a green card to date other people.

hey karma long time no see. I miss your insights.

You're right it doesn't make sense, we're going to actually do it this time.

I would like nothing better than to reunite with her some time in the future. My heart is in pieces now and I really can't take all the swings and roller coaster ride any longer, and neither can she.

I certainly expect her to date others. We'll see what the future holds. In the meantime there's PR to work on.

Please do not give her a fantasy divorce. It would be the worst for your feelings.

No. Don't say this again. Mommy is feeling bad, because Mommy is BEING bad. Don't confuse them. Have you exposed the affair to them?

Please describe fantasy divorce? I'm going to have majority custody and she will have standard visitation, and she will pay reduced child support until she gets a worthwhile job. Then I'll go back for full support. Best I'd get right now is about $50 a month plus medical support of about $45.

Good way to put it. Yes I exposed to them age appropriately.

Meaning, don't try to do Plan A things at all, don't be super friendly co-parenting, etc. The vets could give you better definition.

Go totally dark. If you don't she will have no reason to come back to you if she DOES suddenly change.

I'm going to assume that this means that you exposed your WW's affair to them; not "mommy and daddy aren't getting along" - You specifically told them that mommy has a boyfriend, and that is wrong when she is married to daddy. You worded it that way, correct?

Because you are currently shielding your WW from the fallout of her affair if you aren't letting your kids know the truth of their family's problem.

yes verbatim



This will be difficult. I planned to use my home for the childcare times when she has them and I'm away.

I see that you are still hoping for reconciliation at some point and it concerns me that you did not address my post to you about EPs.

I discussed the topic of recovering with a serial cheater at length with Dr Harley. Unless she is willing to implement EPs to a degree that eliminates almost all opportunity for an affair then R is not going to be possible.

The other thing that I want you to consider is that she has had a SSL (secret second life) for basically your entire M from what I have read here. This (dishonesty) has likely become second nature to her and will be a VERY hard habit for her to break.

Lastly, I hope you realize that it is impossible to get a WS to fall back in love with you when she refuses to close her LB$ to others. Even if this current affair ends, without the EPs in place that I mentioned, there will just be OM4, 5 and 6 for a cheater like this.

Hang in there.

Sorry about that SusieQ

Yes she's a serial cheater, and I'm aware that I would need super extraordinary precautions with her. If she is willing to go with it in the future we'll see. She and I discussed many of these things together at length, and she had done most of them. WW actually brought this up today while she was sniping at me and I said something about her not taking any of my recommendations seriously. She countered with how she had killed online presence, changed numbers, and was deleting her email accounts to keep away from POSOM. Didn't take long for him to get through to her. Wonder how long before she's back living with him.

Ugh. Waywards are so frustrating. One day we're moving out because I'm hated and uncomfortable to be around, the next she's happy as a clam watching the kids in my house no less, texting on her phone all day and sitting on the couch.
All. Day. Long.
LITERALLY.
I saw it. When she wasn't there she was napping with DD in my bed. Even so comfortable that she put on PJs to get more comfy before I arrived home and she had to leave and go back to MIL's place.

My brain melts at the concept. I'm going to bed.

Who is she texting? Are you still snooping?? Seems she is cake eating at your expense. What is your next step? Have you brought the idea of her coming to the forum? If she can text all day she can come here.

I read your updates.
I suggest you go into immediate Plan B.
Drop plans on saving your marriage and focus on your kids.
End all text nessages with her.

Don't beg her to be your roomate.
Get this divorce asap.

And get a thorough background check on OM.
If she has drug issues you should seek full custody

I'm pretty sure she's texting OM and one of her enabling friends. She also plays a lot of solitaire on her phone. I have no access to it. I'm snooping as much as I can (VR and camera). The kids know mommy should not be with OM and she has agreed not to bring them around him. They will tell me; they're old enough to know. Her family doesn't support the relationship with OM, but they enable it by not interfering and supporting her with room and board. The alternative is her moving right back in with him. She did start job hunting for a real job today. Told me again that she loves him and wants to be stable before/if she goes back. I'm screaming in my head "REALLY, A DRUG-ADDICTED, ABUSIVE, VIOLENT PERSON AND YOU WANT TO GO BACK!!!" But only after she's able to support herself and has her own space will she be able to have a relationship. That certainly makes it all just dandy doesn't it? He'll be a great influence after you clean up your act won't he?

Excerpt of today's ramblings:




The rest of our conversation actually included how we prefer broccoli florets to cut pieces so that's something I guess.

She came back to woo you into submission and giving her an easy divorce. My guess is POSOM threw the fact she's a cheater in her face so now she wants a quick divorce. Don't be amicable, don't file yourself retain a lawyer and get everything you want. Starting with full custody and if she has drug issues (which is likely) go for state supervised visitation. You sir are being worked over, she had SF with you to get what she wanted and that's why it felt horrible for her.

Fight for your marriage and don't lay down. Write her a letter stating what it will take for you to stay married to her. Also, add if she isn't willing she needs to leave and find other living arrangements. I would write Dr. Harley to see if he feels you should stay in Plan A or go to Plan B. I know he prefers men to Plan A until divorce but how are you holding up mentally?

She currently lives with her parents. Her work and the kids are all right by my house and so is POSOM. I have informed her that she will not get to see her kids if she goes back to live with POSOM. She has only done drugs when in his environment. She quit smoking pot about a month ago and I and her parents have been keeping a close eye on her since she's been away from him. No sign that she's used again.

I do agree she is feeling guilt for the SF with me. She feels bad because she loves him and not me but did it with me anyway because she needed it. That I think is why she felt as horrible about it as she did and claims it was as what she said.

Mentally I'm doing OK. A little broken-hearted from the most recent turn of events. She already knows what it would take. In her head though it's me that needs to make some serious changes for her to want to stay. Meanwhile she says my conditions are a way for me to control her for the rest of her life, and be creepy, and invade her emotional and personal space/privacy. She's not ready, and won't be anytime soon.

This morning I got a call from her because her tire blew out on the way to my house to pick up our DD and she needed help. I came with our DD changed it out and got her back in business. She was 1/4 mile from her parent's house where her mom and brother still were, and I was 15 miles away in the next town over. I later found out she didn't even call them to tell them after the fact that this had even happened. I gave her some money to replace the 2 bad tires with used ones until she could fix her bad alignment and get good tires. She called me to tell me that the first place had 2 tires but was charging too much. Later she called because the next place had 2 smaller tires but DD was acting up. So she just left. I tried to tell her the smaller would work for now (it's just triage and I don't expect them to last very long). She is wanting it solved now so she said "you're not gonna like this but..." Oh OM can do it for me he's not working today and he'd be able to go get them etc. etc. REALLY!!!!

you.are.a.doormat.

what are you doing?
Get into Plan B immediately.

I would encourage you to contact Dr Harley, but my guess is he would support this advice: that you need to consider changing your focus from marital recovery to a protect your children mission.

This goes beyond a regular affair situation. Your WW is having an affair with a drug user, she is engaging in drug use herself. Recently while at home (with the children? I asked...you did not answer) she ran for an errand to where OM's drug dealer was. She is not safe for your children. And I think your children need you to be clear minded and focused on them rather than what she is up to right now.

Marital recovery chances are hopeless right now anyway, as long as you cannot afford to move away from the OM and she will not implement super duper EPs (and no, she never did do this before) that will make another affair/her serial cheating impossible.

Please tell us you're doing this DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

oh of course I am. we notated the SAA book and I've got some journal entries. VAR and webcam footage. I'm covered.

Oh SusieQ she was working, I was at home with the kids. We ran to the store and had to drive by POSOM's place on the way home because I missed the turn coming into the neighborhood. She has so far not brought him around the kids since she moved out of his apt.

Is she still at home?

No. She lives with her parents now, but i caught her at OM's house after work last night, then she went home. She wanted to know why i texted her so late at night. Evaded answering when i asked where she was and wanted to know why it mattered bc she's not coming back and we're divorcing. I told her it mattered to her ability to actively participate as a mothee if she was going to his place and gerting stoned. Thoight it would have been obvious to her onTues when i told her i would have to take the kids away if she went back to him. I think she believes i only care about the kids being around him. She doesnt seem to think it matters if she gets high when they aren't around.

She does come to my house to watch the kids while im at work.

Would you allow a babysitter provide childcare for your kids if you knew they were doing Any type of drugs the previous evening?

Just because your wife once gave birth to those children does not mean she is the proper influence to provide that care currently.

I wonder if they sell drug testing kits that show a previous days marijuana usage?

LTL

I wouldn't do that only a matter of time till POSOM is in your house or she is doing drugs around the kids. Get a babysitter, have you emailed Dr. Harley? You are letting her cake eat big time with zero consequences, seems to me you are right where you started.

Can you get a court order in place keeping the POSOM away from your children to protect them? When I was still active in my A, my BH, saw a lawyer immediately, and got into place an order where our daughter was NOT allowed to be be around POSOM, at ANY time, under ANY circumstance.
It was the BEST thing he did.

Talk to your lawyer about having her do hair drug test. They cost under $100 and it will tell if she has done any drugs in the last 90 days. This would need to be done swiftly granting her virtually no time to find a way to beat the test. If she is doing drugs, she should not be watching the children while you are working. You will need to find childcare elsewhere.

Do you still have temp custody of the children or has that expired?

Yes a drug test kit would show usage the previous evening. The trick is getting her to take it. A hair test can't be beaten unless you voluntarily cut your scalp off. But somehow I don't see her doing that. I can't force her to take a piss test and a threat that she can't see the kids otherwise is empty and she knows it. I have no time left at work to take off due to previous legal action related to the divorce proceedings and medical issues. As for child care I'm unable to afford day-care. I work from 9-6pm Tues-Sat. I can cover weekends, but weekdays are the problem. I'm working on it rapidly. I'm trying to leverage my church connections. Until then, unfortunately she's all I've got. Post-divorce I will be in a better financial situation. I've pretty much resolved that she's going to take a hair test and lose custody or end up with supervised visitation and random testing.

Yes she's cake eating. She's getting her family time from me and everything else from her parents or POSOM.

Once child care is lined up I'll have the judge drop the hammer on her. I fully expect her to claim I sexually abused her though, due to her previous guilt-ridden claim. Though I don't know how she'll spin climbing into a shower with me after said incident took place. And the text documentation regarding another time, also after.

Even after the divorce I still intend to try and reconcile and remarry. She really needs to get herself back together first. For a week and a half I had my Wife back. She was herself again. I know she can come back again. I just have to be patient, that was my problem. And has been through our whole marriage. I'm impatient for things to work out I always make some grand gesture hoping it will put everything into place. She on the other hand holds everything bad so close to her heart and lets it affect her negatively. She has such low self-esteem and no balance or peace in her life. I tried to give it all to her at once and she snapped back. Something to work on.

She came to pick up her washer and take it to OM. Talked to her again and let her know how angry I have been. She wanted to know how I knew she was at POSOM's house. I said "I just know, how doesn't matter." She owned up to sex with him again, but so far says she hasn't done the drugs. I reiterated the seriousness of the drug use. I asked her what she was doing with OM, she said she has business with him. I asked what about when that business is concluded. She said "Not much more." So then you don't ever have to see him again. No answer.

Then almost in the next breath I talked about moving away. She said she'd move too.

Then we talked about how she feels when she's around me. Says I act like I own her, I touch her whenever I want, and every time I'm near I'm just trying to have sex with her. Explained that when I touch her (hugs, hold hands, shoulder, cheek) it's to show affection and caring. I'm sure this is because she has no love and I should change how I touch her for the future. I still haven't figured out the ownership part. And the sex well that just doesn't need to happen. She should also not be flirting with me and being provocative if she doesn't want me to be the same.

I was in a similar stitch as you. Yes, there are products (online and from local headshops) available for passing drug tests (hair, nail, and urine). Some work and some do not. That is why I mentioned a limited time frame for taking it (ordered by the court of course). In my case, I have full custody and my WS has lost supervised visitation.

I think its right and even you have a pay a little more on lawyer but you get a better result and suggestion from him.And you can also protect yourself from any legal action by getting a good advise from your lawyer.

Have you asked the state for childcare assistance?

Camron, I'm looking forward to hearing your story. You haven't shared that, but have been giving advice (not 'advise' - just thought I'd mention that.) Share with us, please. We're here to help.

JK I've applied, but never qualified. I make too much on a 3 person household to fit their cookie cutter. At least I'm above the poverty line; barely.

While we're on the topic of child-care; things just got much more difficult. WW got a new job starting Monday. Now I need to find someone to watch my kids Tues-Fri and do school pickups. I'm scrambling. I'm trying to get my daughter qualified for Pre-K, my son enrolled in an afterschool YMCA program, and someone to watch my daughter every day afterschool until she turns 5 and can do the YMCA as well. All the while praying that I'll qualify for the YMCA assistance program. They really are the cheapest option I have found. I'm leveraging my church and every good person I know. WW wants me to ask some of her friends, but seriously after what I know she's done I don't want her friends near my kids. It's bad enough they are around her, at least I can keep an eye on her.

Quiet morning around the boards today. Let's have a rant to liven things up.

WW's latest "I'll be a lot nicer and more friendly to you when we finish this divorce."

C'mon really. Why do you need a divorce to be nice to another human being. Let alone the fact that I bend over backwards for you, have been married to you for almost 8 years, dragged you out of the hell hole you created for yourself, and oh yeah you used to love me and we made kids together. Pull your head outta your ***.

mijuneleigh,

Makes perfect sense, when you are single WW believes she can cheat with you on her future partner.

She may also have a fantasy that you are emotionally enslaved to her for the rest of your life and you will be her fall back plan.

She's in for a very rude awakening when, partially because of MB, you pick a much better w/gf after your divorce.

God Bless
Gamma

That is exactly correct. If I get divorced. She automagically loses all the benefits of a married woman. She will not see her kids because of the custody arrangements and her job, she will have crap for insurance and have to pay through the nose for it, her vehicle will fall apart and have to be insured by her, no sex when she wants it (at least from me), no emotional support from me, nobody will understand her quirky references to tv shows and movies because all of her associates are a decade younger, and more.

Meanwhile I will be dark, continuing to work on my happiness and being the best Dad I can be. Then one day I'll meet a sweet woman who knows the definition of commitment. We can then get married and work hard to stay happy. Unless she decides to make a 180 in her life.

Hang in there. You are the better person and the better option for your WW. Like you said her head is in her anal region right now.

I'm a single father and use the ymca.
They have been one of my best helps.
I also ensure that I don't make more than monthly limit for childcare and health ins and foodstamps.
I strongly encourage you to look closely at that.

A single parent is better making $29000 a year than 60, 000 when you acvount ffor welfare aid

Nothing to add MJ, except i admire perseverance and commitment in face of continual adversity.

We have a lot in common with our WW not having custody of our children, although my sitch is not court ordered. My W just left and doesn't seem to give a darn.

Keep on doing even the slightest little things that work for more favorable connections.

LTL

LTL, you might want to document her lack of visitation just in case she comes back later trying to say that you never let her see them and challenging things and whatnot.

It's all documented daily. Today marks 244 days since her last actual visitation with our S-10 and 222 days since the last time she briefly saw him or spoke with him.

LTL

Not too many dads are as on the up on documentation as you are. Props to you, LTL!

Even so, you should make copies every so often and store them in a safe place. Although, it doesn't sound like your W would come back to steal the evidence or anything.

TD and JK you two have persevered through so much. I've read some of each of your threads. So much going on and stuff to learn here that I've not made it through too many of one person's thread.

LTL you've come such a long way in a short time and I have read all of your thread. Your wife is completely unbelievable.

Thanks for the positive comments guys, they really hit home when I need them. I do indeed get more opportunities to plant those little deposits with her now that she's but POSOM on the back burner with me. She left for the 2nd time only a week and a half ago, but has been here almost every day before I leave for work or when I get home. Now that she has the new job I'll likely see her every evening when she is here to spend time with the kids. When she's here she cooks for the family, and does some tidying around the house which keeps my LB balance for her in the black. Hell her being in the house many times is a deposit for me. And I get a few minutes of face to face conversation. I give her appreciation and admiration. I make sure to complement her looks. I try very hard not to be demanding in my speech (big problem of mine no requests only statements of what I need done/to do). But it also causes me pain to see her go every night. I wonder if she's stopping at his place on the way home. The good doesn't ever stop the thoughts and longing in those occasional dark quiet hours before I fall asleep. She wears outfits (like today's new shorts that MIL got for her) that set my blood on fire and make it hard to keep my distance. And some nights I wish I could still hold her, hand on hip, rubbing her head the way she likes, till we fall asleep together softly and quietly like we used to.

The ups and downs *sigh*. Good thing there's Valium. Nighty night all.

My thread on here and is quite short compared to 2 other forums i started posting on.

But, it took W's mothers unexpected 2 1/2 month hospitalization, a seeming recovery and then a very unexpected death one week after the supposed recovery. Add to that her probably innocently at first reaching out to an ex from 17 years prior and getting unknown emotional support during my W's severe dire depression, long with her concurrent alcohol relapse and then the typical WW script rewriting our marital history and even Dorothy's Ruby Red Slippers could not have escaped the tumultuous tornado storm brewing.

The former version of my W truly has my sincerest and deepest love. That is why i cling on looking for not doing any potential harm to the potential of a someday R in our marriage and the restoration of our family.

I am under no false illusions. I am primarily focussing on bettering my life, restoring my roofing contracting business and leading my son in developing as finely and lovingly as i possibly can.

I do believe that "most" waywards will have their own Aha moment and want to be studious enough to learn how to truly be an exemplary husband, one that i partially deluded myself as prior to this tragedy unfolding.

I hope, I Pray and i am continuously trying to learn. At least i will be a better person at the conclusion of this ordeal and my son will benefit along with me.

I Love My Wife and hope that the skills i learn will aide my reactions in allowing her to once again find herself.

LTL

Downsized as much as I can go. Going to give up the land line. Can't afford HI. Make just too much to qualify for low cost state HI.

Yeah I think we all learn to live as close to the line as possible. When she left she took 1/3 of the household income with her. I began filing as single and reduced my deductions which took more, the last thing I need is the tax-man coming to the door. I don't have any monthly splurge bills. I spend it all on the kids, and scrape a drop or two into savings.

Quick update. Sent an email to the show at ML's request and it got read on the air. I'm so stoked, they are sending me a copy of Dr. Harley's book "He Wins She Wins".

Was at the Dr getting my medicine administered and had an allergic reaction. My nasal passages swelled up and I started to feel my throat closing before the meds they gave me to counteract it stopped the progress. Kinda sucks sitting there staring in the face of death. Took about 3 hours but they got it fixed. Good thing I was already at the hospital. Incidentally I messaged WW saying I wished she was there. She was just getting off and came over. It really made me more comfortable having her there. She said I shouldn't read too much into it.

What did Dr. Harley say?

The email was about some of the postings we had seen recently on the forums about advice given to WSs. He talked about how most counselors just validate what you already feel and don't give you hard challenges. How nobody wants to hear they are doing wrong and just want the easy way of following their chosen path. Sadly I missed the part where he addressed the advice given to my WW.

I listened to this program.
Post the advice given to your ww so it will refresh my memory

My comment was that My WW didn't really push the divorce conversations and try to separate until her counselor filled her head with crap and validated her affair as some kind of empowering thing for women.

I just had a conversation with WW, sort of. She sat at the table with a pen and paper and beckoned me over. I sat down and she wanted to know if I would be completing the divorce Pro Se or if I would be having my lawyer do it. I didn't really want to answer the question. I asked if she had considered any other options. She said she has been in limbo for 9 months waiting for it to be over and it shouldn't take this long. She said if something doesn't happen soon that she's going to end up in the loony bin and I'd be (something I don't remember), and there hasn't been any progress all this time. I countered with the fact that she's finally talking and spending time with me and that's a step toward reconciliation. She flipped from calm to hurt/angry said "I'm leaving." Kissed the kids and walked out.

We've been so nice and amicable and spending some time together, then this. I don't know what to do. This is one of those rough times I think.

You could of said I talk marriage of you want to talk divorce please speak with my lawyer. His/her name is blah blah and his/her number. Then quickly switch the conversation with something like, "what would you like for dinner?" Or would you like "insert WW's fave food or beverage.

Edit: my WW tried to pull that trash on me. Being nice to get divorce information, that line shut it down without sounding needy or disrespectful.

http://opensourcehelminththerapy.org/mediawiki2/index.php?title=Providers

I noticed that you are battling with severe Crohn's disease. A while ago this was suspected in my daughter, so I did some research. As a medical doctor and immunologist I consider it promising. Definitely worth a try if they are considering surgery again.

I have actually heard of some of these treatments before. They have used organisms to treat all kinds of things in the past, and I have no problem with that. Ants for stitches, maggots for removing dead skin, tape worms for weight control, and many others. Some people think it's sick, but this is how we make discoveries and advance medicine. We never know until we try.

I remember hearing that maggots were a better way for removing dead skin as a surgeon might cut away some healthy skin, while maggots eat only the dead skin.

Is this your question?
Radio Clip

Yep BH that was mine. Was nice to see you had posted it.

Quick update. Sorry it's been so long.

Still married for now. Final hearing on the 20th. Getting most recent evidence in order for delivery to the atty. WW still involved with her POSOM. She works full-time now at least. I've had to get full time child care and WW only sees the kids 1-2 nights a week and every other Friday for an overnight. She still thinks she can get primary custody and child support out of me. It's almost over.

I continue to go to church. Have quit smoking cigarettes and am on an e-cig completely now. Still working on getting rid of it but better than a coffin nail. Got my first calling at church as a children's sunday school teacher. I'm really excited. DS is doing great in schoo and just turned 7. He got accepted to the Talented and Gifted program. DD is also doing well in school and is a darling little 5 year old. She does great in school too and all her teachers think she's an angel. If they only knew the tornado that is my daughter at home.

Hope all is well with you.

Glad you are doing well.
Are you in Plan A or Plan B?

Still in A as much as possible. The longer this goes on the more I long for B. It's spring break and the kids are with my parents for the week. WW has been spending every night over at POSOM's. Going to have a final meeting with the atty on Monday prior to the final hearing on Thursday. One week from now I won't be married any longer. She is the one who set the court date. She did finally hire herself another atty.

One cool thing happened today totally unrelated. I was doing some geneaology online today and found an Earl in my family history. The I traced his ancestry back to the year 264. Yes that's right it's not a typo only 3 digits!

Do you plan on entering Plan B after divorce?
If so are you prepared for that?

I'm not sure yet. I'd like to see what opportunities present themselves. I fully expect her to move back in with him or even marry him as soon as she can.

Mijunleigh,

Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013

How could you take her back? WW has so many OM and OW that you might not be able to find a place to move where you wouldn't be 50 miles or less away from one.

God Bless
Gamma

well we know what the odds of that marriage surviving will be...

You need to start asking yourself how you want to live post divorce.
I have no contact with my ex wife (and we have 3 kids that live with me).

I know how I will live, I've got a good life without her and it continues to get better. I have accepted that and look forward to it. I have a hard time thinking about my children not seeing mommy so much. Her lifestyle and influence is undeniably bad for them at this time. My greatest fear is what will happen to them because of her life choices. I will have more peace in my life with the structure the divorce will bring.

Gamma it's tough to make the choice but I only do so because I believe marriage is eternal. I do not know what the future holds, but I will embrace what comes my way. I work on my personal happiness and ensure my children have the best life possible.

I have my kids full time.
Statistically, kids raised by single dads do well.
KIds raised by single moms dont do well.

As long as kids have a parent that shows them love and boundaries, they do well. It is a fact.

You have a healthy outlook, and I wish you and your children the best as you approach a crossroads. Karma will not be kind to your WW, but I have a feeling you have grown and deepened your character from this struggle.