Hi,

I've never posted to a forum before, so this is all very new to me, but then again, so is surviving an affair. I found out last night (on Valentine's Day, of all nights!) that my WW (is that the right short code? again, I'm new to all this) has been sleeping with another man. We have been married for 10 years and have a two year old daughter, but things have been pretty rocky over the past few years. A lot has changed in our lives with new jobs, new baby, new house, etc. and the stresses have really taken a toll. We would occasionally "talk" about our problems and consider seeing a counselor, but never really took the steps. (hindsight, as they say...)

My WW is a college professor and has been a little more than chummy with some of her students in the past, but one in particular started dominating her time and attention, and I started seeing the signs of an affair last month when phone records showed odd-hour phone calls and her GPS tracking showed her at his house. She ultimately screwed up when she ditched work yesterday to see him at his house, and I found out on her cell phone GPS. I confronted her about it last night and she confessed to the whole thing. She told me it had been going on for a little over a month and that she wanted it to stop immediately.

This is very fresh and I'm still shaking after a night of tremendous pain, anger, crying, and no sleep. My wife says she wants to repair this, and I believe her. I think I do too, which is why I've been reading sites like this all morning. I'm learning the first steps to recover here, and I thank you all for posting support.

One of the hardest things for me to cope with right now is the intense emotions. I am not a very emotional guy (which I am understanding is one of the things my wife was lacking in our relationship), but right now, I am furious and want to destroy everything in sight, but I also want to curl up in a ball in the corner and hide. I feel immense responsibility for the affair, so much so that I found myself apologizing as much as my WW last night, but at the same time, I have this vengeance inside that just wants to lash out at her and blame her for everything.

I love my wife more than anything, and I really do want things to work, and so I'm trying to walk that fine line of being assertive and holding her responsible while also showing her my love and support so we can reconcile things.

Again, this is all very new and fresh in the reconciliation and recover process. I am looking forward to continuing talks tonight about where we go from here, including how to make sure she never sees OM again. I plan on helping her understand her potential addiction to him and how we can fight that together. I'm not sure about the whole exposure thing, because I really believe this is a one-time mistake, and I get the feeling the exposure tactic is for WSs who are continuing the affair or potentially plan to.

I'm not really sure how we are going to work things out with her job. As I mentioned, the OM is a student in a lab she oversees. It is possible for him to leave the lab without consequence for either him or my wife, but I don't know if we should be exploring her potentially leaving her job over this. My initial thought is to see what happens when she tries to sever ties with OM, but waiting and putting responsibility on her is the wrong thing to do.

I've gone on to much in this one post (forgive me, I'm a writer by trade, and so maybe this typing is therapeutic in some sense), but I hope anyone here at the forum can provide support.

Thanks,

Bonfire,

Welcome to MB. It is the best place to be to recover a marriage after an affair. The first step is to bust up the affair. Re-read what you wrote. You found her at his house YESTERDAY. This is an active affair. The best chance at busting up an affair is to expose it. In this case, your wife has abused her supervisory position. Expose the affair and yes, she needs to leave her job.

AM

Start reading everything in this link *** START HERE *** .

IMPORTANT:

Do not share this MB forum/site with your WW (wayward wife) .... not for awhile.

Immediately, your WW should gladly and with gratitude do the following:

1. Give you all her passwords to every device she has access to.
2. Schedule herself for a complete STD screening as well as a pregnancy test.
3. Go with you to both extended families (yours and hers) and confess to them that she has been adulterous. WW needs to ask all of them to support YOU and your efforts to rebuild a better marriage bond. This is NOT to shame her, but to hold her accountable to the facts. The more people who are helping her, the better this will go.
4. Write a firm NC (no contact) letter to OM. You read/approve it, she signs it. You mail it together.

More later .......

Adultery does not just happen. Adultery is a series of conscious decisions made in secrecy with full knowledge of wrong-doing.

A "mistake" is an error in arithmetic.

You need to know this. She is still very much a risk.

You need to know this. This was not your fault. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

You claim to have been reading threads on this site for a while.

Even if you are a "rookie", you can probably expect some of the advice you're about to get.

A slightly more experienced reader would know that he himself will immediately react to some of the advice by protesting, "We can't do that!", or "That's not necessary in our case; we're SPECIAL!"

A more fully invested student of this site would be able to nod sagely at all the instances where the "protesters" from the second segment will have returned here fairly quickly, moaning, "I blew it. I should have listened. The situation just a)happened again, or b)got worse!"

A truly well-educated visitor would also be able to reference the dozens of recent posters here who actually followed through with all the advice, killed the infidelity, and started recovery on their marriage.

So, friend, which are you to be?

Anyway, your first step is to expose and reveal your WW's infidelity to as wide an audience as possible. This, since it was pursued and consummated on her job, will necessarily involve her superiors, and most of her peers.

Your WW will have to leave her job. Firstly, there's no way you can guarantee that POSOM will politely excuse himself indefinitely and permanently from her presence, and secondly, the exposure being done as comprehensively as will be recommended would leave her well-known as "Professor Round Heels" in her immediate academic community.

Here is your game plan. Most betrayed husbands haven't the courage to follow it fully, to their own discomfiture. As indicated, those that do have remarkably better results than the rest.

NEVERGUESSED'S BETRAYED HUSBAND SURVIVAL KIT

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. ("Eblaster" can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take "personal" calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and "on" whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife's contacts, to the tune of: "I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333"
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM's contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

And, oh yes, WW will have to make appointments for both of you for a complete set of STD screens. Immediately, and then again in about six months. Until then, no unprotected sex.

As for your mental state:

I am furious and want to destroy everything in sight...I have this vengeance inside that just wants to lash out at her and blame her for everything.

These are healthy reactions to being betrayed in the most heinous way possible. DO NOT ACT on them, however. Having a DV complaint tangling up your recovery is NOT helpful. I know.

..I also want to curl up in a ball in the corner and hide. I feel immense responsibility for the affair, so much so that I found myself apologizing as much as my WW last night...

These emotions should be processed and disposed of with great dispatch. There is never a legitimate excuse for boning someone beside one's spouse. There. Done.

Mother's Day will never be the same for me, if that makes you feel any better.

Bonfire,

but things have been pretty rocky over the past few years.

Possibly they were rocky because she was having affairs, it's really easy to see it the other way around. This might not be her first one.

One of the things can happen is that during an affair the cheating spouse starts hating the loyal spouse because the loyal spouses decency makes them feel guilty. So the cheating spouse blows up about anything since they know deep down how much worse they are behaving, the best defense being a good offense.

God Bless
Gamma

Thanks all,

I'm admittedly a little naive here, but things are progressing. WW deleted her email account today, blocked all text messages, and is working on a NC letter now. OM is on a business trip in rural Alaska, so the NC letter will not be seen by him for another week, but she agreed to eliminate anyways he can contact her during that time and has agreed to not contact him.

I know many immediately think the worst, and I probably should too, but I may be blinded by my continued love for her. I honestly believe this is the only instance, and her discussion about it with me has been frank and forthright (a little more than I've been comfortable with to some degree). She is typically not the type to hide things from me, and when she does, it's usually done sloppily. I feel like this has been more of a cry for help, and she wanted me to find out about it. As I mentioned, I saw the signs of the affair almost instantly when it began, so I don't think that there is evidence for me to suspect earlier affairs. Our rocky relationship has stemmed from my inability to satisfy her emotional needs, and while that is not grounds for her affair, it is the reason we've been having problems, and we both contacted a marriage counselor today to address that.

Meanwhile, on the exposure front, I have told my extended family and plan to tell hers as well. OM is not married. She also told me today that OM has told her to return and make things work with me, and she thinks this won't be a difficulty on his side (but he's also a snake-charmer, so I take this with a grain of salt). However, we discussed the idea of her withdraw today and she admitted that it's going to be difficult for her to cut ties with him, because she'll miss him. This ripped my heart out again, but I told her to compare that to how much she'll miss me, and I think that sank in.

While I have not mentioned the site/forum, I did tell her that I whole-heartedly believe we can recover from this and repair the faults in our marriage. She admitted that she didn't think that was possible, but wanted to give it a try and was enthusiastic about working with a marriage counselor. I should mention too that WW's family has a history of mental illness, and there are clear signs of depression and possibly bi-polar in my wife. For the longest time, she refused to see a therapist for fear of being officially diagnosed, but I think the stress and anxiety of the A and the difficulties with our marriage have pushed it to a head, where there are real concerns regarding suicide. She sees this and is frightened by it, enough that last week she made an appointment to see an individual therapist.

One final note in response to some of the replies, I have not exhausted the forum yet, only some of MB's articles. I want to be the guy that takes some of your harsh advice and works to make this better. My wife also has expressed a desire to quit her job and leave the state (we do not have any friends/family/support group here and we both feel that this has contributed to our breakdown. Moving closure to our families may help that, and at least my family as already expressed a desire to help us through this no matter what).

Oh, and MikeStillSmiling, thanks for that one. Oddly it does make me feel better, but I am also sad for you.

Hi bonfire, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that bring you here. The first step towards recovery of an affair is to end all contact with her OM for life. Will your wife be quitting her job now? Without that first step, you cannot go to the next step.

And I would strongly advise you to get Dr Harley's book, Surviving an Affair, and follow the program in there. Marriage counselors have no idea how to save a marriage after an affair and are destructive to marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population.

What will you do when some "counselor" tells you and your wife that you should try a "trial separation" to "test your feelings?" That is just one example of the destructive advice that counselors have given other posters here. Or that continued contact with the affair partner was acceptable? Your marriage would be safer if you just went and got massages or pedicures.

p.s. Marriage Builders is completely different from any other marriage program in that is has a step by step plan to recover from infidelity with the goal of restoring the romantic love to the marriage. No other program is designed like this.

How old is the OM?

If you go to a marriage counselor she will use it as opportunity to complain about mistakes of the past.
I've been there. Many people have been there and marriage counselors don't know how to deal with affairs.

Let's summarize the important points.

Exposure
Your family - yes.
Her Family - In process? When? By YOU, right? NOT by WW!
Her Workplace - ?
Friends, sorority sisters, etc - ?

Extraordinary Precautions
NC Letter - In process. Really? Download an example from here and have her write it out. 30 minutes, tops!
E-mail - Deleted (but another one can be arranged in about two minutes)
Texts - Blocked
Cell Phone - No mention - did she block his number for calls?
Keylogger - Get it on her computer sending reports to your e-address. DO THIS SURREPTITIOUSLY!
LEAVING JOB - Discussing won't cut it for long. THIS MUST BE DONE!

Wasting Time, Commitment, and $$$ - All to Be Halted
Non-MB Marriage Counselor
Discussing/pursuing her mental/emotional "issues"
Discussing (now) your "contributions" to the environment that enabled her affair

Addressing these items is what is referred to here as a "Plan". "Plans" have a chance at success. "Hopes" have no such chance.

Bonfire,

MelodyLane is one of the best posters in this section. Take her advice and order Harley's book "Surviving an Affair". Overnight or 2nd Day -- you need it fast. You will need to keep this book hidden from your WW, at least for now. Read the first 80 something pages right away. It's presented more level than what us abused people on the forums post, and it will give you greatly improved understanding for your situation and what you can do.

Also, MelodyLane is probably right about most counselors. Since your wife is receptive to doing something to repair your relationship, you should also order 2 extremely helpful books for both of you to read: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The prices for all these books are quite low on Amazon. I am not trying to plug these books, but you are right, it is not just she that needs (must) make changes, but also you need to make changes too. These books will give you both a great chance to get on the right track once and for all.

I can tell how much you love your wife; I am similar to you in my feeling for mine. And remember, even though you need to make changes, nothing justifies what she did. It was her duty, long before the affair, to communicate how she was feeling and work together with you to find healing and new love.

I wish someone had pointed me to MB long ago and given me and my wife those 2 books right when we married, as sort of a marriage manual, and insisted, even demanded, that we read them right away, no matter how much we thought we didn't need them. I think it would have saved me (and my wife) a lot of grief.

There is one other thing that many here hesitate to post, and that is it may be that your wife has drifted far from God. There is great healing possibility here, so don't discount it.

Stay strong, act, consult with friends, don't feel too rushed, but gradually get new habits going for you both. Openness (zero privacy is good!), no contact with OM, and connecting time with just you and your wife are critical.

Thanks kinglui, your response has been by far one of the best I've seen on this forum. I have to say, the tone of responses on these forums from complete strangers is pretty horrific and has me reeling at a time when I am more vulnerable than I've ever been. And while I may be here to seek advice on how to survive, I'm also here to seek support from people who have gone through what I'm going through. And with regards to most of the responders on here, I am certainly not getting that. I'm not really one to take advice from total strangers, and so a lot of the comments I'm seeing here are being taken with a grain of salt. Frankly, it is making me question the value of the forum at all and why I keep returning (probably why I never participated in forums before now).

That said, I still feel posting here is helpful, if for nothing else than it allows me to share my story as a kind of catharsis. And I am following MB principles in so much as I subscribe to them. I know that statement will get a lot more snarky responses from some repliers, but so be it.

I will continue updating my progress with surviving an affair: My WW and I have had some amazing discussions over the past 40 hours with very little sleep. I feel like, despite the pain she has caused me, I am beginning to understand more about my WW than I have in the past few years, and she in turn is learning more about me. We are both finding comfort in the fact that we can rebuild our marriage and are excited about starting a new chapter in our lives.

Will that new chapter include additional fallout from this affair? I'm sure it will, but we are currently locking up outlets for allowing the affair to continue. WW wrote her NC letter and I was very happy with it, helping her use some of the template from this site (and don't worry, I didn't let her see the site or tell her where the template was from). I have finished exposure to all of our family (with regards to the question about what I meant about currently exposing to her family, I should explain that they are difficult to reach and communicate with, as they are out of the country and in a rural environment). She is aware of exposure to the family, and has not been angry with me. On the contrary, she feels that this is all necessary and she wants to be open with our loved ones. To let you know, each and every one has been glad we told them and are enthusiastic to help us work through this and save our marriage, and I couldn't be happier to have such a wonderful support group.

I also exposed the affair to her coworkers, which may have been one of the most difficult things I've done. I haven't heard back from them yet, but I trust their support, as my WW has mentioned that some of them suspected and already cautioned her against the A (a shame she didn't heed their advice early on).

Regarding WW quitting her job, I really don't think it's required in this case. While the affair was born out of her work, it is not a part of her work and I cannot see the option of backsliding continuing because of work. Provided the OM respects the demands of NC, he should not be around WW at work. As I mentioned, he has not received the NC letter yet and does not know about my discovery or my WW's desire to end the A yet. Things will certainly change once he is back in the state and is aware of what has been going on.

That said, and with regards to more exposing, OM is not married, in his late 20's, and lives with his parents. I am working on exposing to his mother, and I think I have found contact info. I will try to call her tomorrow to tell her what her son has been doing, and this may lead to OM knowing about all this before coming home.

Regarding the marriage counselor, both WW and I are in agreement to work with a LMFT who believes in maintaing our marriage and respects our values. We have agreed to be clear that we are only seeking counseling on how to rebuild the love and respect we lost in our marriage, and not how to overcome the affair. I'm not sure about finding an MB therapist, but I will say that the therapist we have started working with agrees with many of the same principles found in Dr. Harley's books and website. But, again, I tend to take advice with a grain of salt, and this is merely a trial with the counselor. If it becomes obvious she is not helping us, we will pull out and go get those massages and pedicures. :-)

Again, I'm sure many of you reading this are shaking your head and are busily typing an angry response, which I'll no doubt read and become momentarily confused on my journey through recovery. And there is a chance that my next post won't be so optimistic and you'll have your opportunity to say "I told you so", which may be at my expense but will also serve as a documented tale for you to use to bolster your guiding principles. And while I'm not disparaging those principles, and in fact agree with the core steps outlined here and in the books, I more appreciate your support rather than your cynicism. Until then, I am now going to go hug my wife, tell her I love her, and get some much needed sleep. I will read your replies and take them into consideration, but I will post once I have another update on my road to recovery and reconciliation.

She needs to quit that job. Continued contact with OM will not help your recovery process. I hate to be harsh but just cause she says so doesn't mean it rings true. Remember she has demonstrated poor boundaries and dishonesty already , what's to make her not do it again? Many people who try to recover while the WS as access to their AP at jobs find out the affair is still on just underground.

WW met OM through that job.

OM will be able to break NC with WW because WW will not leave that job.

Many affairs have restarted because the BH did not have his WW leave her job.

All the people on this thread, and not just kinglui, have come here day after day for a year or more to help others like themselves who have been betrayed. They gave their time to help you, so that you wouldn't make the mistakes that many of them (us) made, such as not exposing or not spying.

If most of the responses on here are not helpful, then please don't be ungracious enough to say that to people who gave up their time for you. It's easy enough to find another forum or to simply stop posting.

Your arrogance towards this forum is breathtaking. Why are you posting here if this is what you think of us?

bonfire, I am also very new here and I felt the same way you do when I first started posting. Try to hear this with the compassion that is intended. You NEED to hear these things. Nobody here is concerned about your feelings. They are concerned about helping you save your marriage. They are speaking the truth in love even though it hurts. In the end, you may want to take each of them out to dinner to pay them back for their honesty. You're job at this point, is to hear them, with humility, and act on saving your marriage.

Maybe I am too new here to be offering advise, but everything they are telling you is the truth. I have put off/trickled exposure, just like they advised not to, and it doesn't help. The continuing lies are harder and harder to catch and get WW to admit.

Good luck friend

I've been an adjunct professor for several years, and I've never seen a faculty handbook which did not warn against inappropriate relationships with students. At some colleges, it is grounds for termination. You said you exposed the affair to her colleagues; I hope you included her supervisor. Your wife abused her position, and her supervisor has the right to know about it.

bonfire, I am truly disappointed to read the arrogance in your post and wonder why you are here. We are posters just like you who have recovered our own marriages using these principles. We take valuable time out of our own lives to come here and help others get through the most trying time of their lives. You came to us asking for help, and you dismiss it "with a grain of salt?"

Most of us have fully recovered marriages using this program and are passionate about paying it forward. We know that there is a very narrow path back to recovery. Those of us who have cut corners have paid dearly, suffering from on again, off again affairs. I am sorry to see you are dismissing the advice of those in recovered marriages ["taking it with a grain of salt"] in favor of your own inexperienced, uneducated judgment. The same poor judgment that led your marriage to this dismal place, I might add.

The advice you are being given is directly from Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders who has a long successful track record of success.

But that's ok. It is your prerogative to dismiss our advice. And it is my prerogative to post to someone who is not too arrogant to listen. I wish you and your wife all the best...

I will leave you with this one last post. You can take it or leave it; it's all the same to me:



Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

Adieu. Best of luck to you.

You will not get the benefits of the program if you do not follow it to the letter.

If you get off crack, that's great. But if you continue to associate with drug dealers, and are around crack, what will happen? You will eventually give in to the temptation and have more crack.

Your marriage can survive her leaving her job. It cannot survive more affairs.

Pep, ML and others,

Do you not see the reality here?

What did we (in whatever "horrific" manner) suggest he do to get the process started?
1) Expose
2) Get NCL written.

And what did he do, that he now agrees yielded benefits?
1) Exposed
2) Got the NCL written

bf1 does not resent our assistance, in and of itself, as much as he does the fact that he cannot claim full credit for the achievement that the assistance facilitated. (That's okay. We're not here to garner awards and accolades. Certainly our use of aliases would make such bestowals difficult!)

So sure, bf1 - YOU DA MAN! YOU DID IT ALONE!

The only remaining - minor - problem is explaining how these sentiments, expressed on arriving on 15 February:

This is very fresh and I'm still shaking after a night of tremendous pain, anger, crying, and no sleep... I've been reading sites like this all morning. I'm learning the first steps to recover here, and I thank you all for posting support...One of the hardest things for me to cope with right now is the intense emotions. I am not a very emotional guy (which I am understanding is one of the things my wife was lacking in our relationship), but right now, I am furious and want to destroy everything in sight, but I also want to curl up in a ball in the corner and hide...

became on 17 February, after two days of (now resented) MB spine-stiffening:

My WW and I have had some amazing discussions over the past 40 hours with very little sleep. I feel like, despite the pain she has caused me, I am beginning to understand more about my WW than I have in the past few years, and she in turn is learning more about me. We are both finding comfort in the fact that we can rebuild our marriage and are excited about starting a new chapter in our lives.

But, being a writer, I'm sure bf1 can spin us a good story.

Indeed! I don't even find that he experienced much harshness or sarcasm. I think it is plain to see that his WW has been courting students in the past and will more than likely be a repeat offender. She needs a career change. And all things considered a career change is really a lot better than a life filled with infidelity and unhappiness which is the certain result if she continues as a professor with lots of male students to get chummy with.

If she reports back to the place she met Loverboy than you're doomed. This is a fact. Like a fly to poop when the storm fades this Cretan will find his way back for a fresh supply of your wife's tookie.

The tough love you get get here, and I can argue you ain't seen nothing yet, serves a couple purposes. The first is to wake you out of the sleep you've been in that let you miss the fact your wife was cheating on you. The next is to hammer home the need for vigilance no matter how soft and cuddly she is today after getting caught. They're all soft and cuddly at this point and its easy to take our eyes off the process.

Now, look down and make sure you're still a man, get back on here and toughen the heck up. You alienated yourself from the quality people here and you're now stuck with me.

You're not nearly the first to think they can do this thing modified to their liking. Go find my SAA thread and youll see I angered everyone just like you until I realized I knew nothing and they knew everything.

You are all correct, and Mike, that was pretty spot on, because I am feeling less like a man more and more every day. I apologize for my arrogance. And I am here for advice. I may be expressing my anger on this forum, and that isn't constructive.

My wife was admitted to the ER yesterday for threatening to slit her wrists. I am on suicide watch now. She claims it is from exposure and the fear that she will loose her job and he family over this. I appreciate her remorse, but not at the expense of her going so far... I am trying to save my marriage, but to be honest, I'd rather the marriage sacrifice if it means she doesn't kill her self. I'd rather my little girl grown up in a divorced home than one without a mother at all...

The hospital released her last night after she promised to not kill herself and I agreed to be with her at all times. We cried together all night, followed by making love. It felt wonderful, but also confusing. This morning she's talking to my sister and I'm proud that she is reaching out, but I'm incredibly worried.

Did I make the right decision exposing? Should I really listen to Dr. Harley's advice and ignore my wife's trauma in this? Where is their room to mend the marriage, overcome the affair, and help my wife's depression?

NeverGuessed, I appreciate your post, and you are correct, I feel like I'm moving in the right direction, almost too quickly! My mother told me yesterday that she is blown away by my strength here, but it feels so wrong, especially when my wife is laying in a hospital bed and crying to complete strangers.

You should know that after that last post, I had given up on this site, and pepperband, I don't blame you for giving up on me. But I returned here this morning wanting to ask one specific question (and I ended up going on). While my wife has sent the NC letter (it's waiting at his house), and I have exposed the A to the OM's parents, the OM still doesn't know as he is on a trip. This morning I checked my wife's email, and he has continued to try to contact her. She hasn't seen these emails, and I've been deleting them. But I was wondering if I should contact him and tell him to stop. I don't think it should be my wife, but I don't know how he'll respond if it came from me.

I await your advice, although it is difficult to check this forum because I can't get a moment to myself while I watch my wife every minute.

Did you verify the contents of the NC letter? I hate to day it but women in affairs are always chronically depressed and sucidal. My wife tried to jump from a moving vehicle on the highway after I exposed. You need to be patient with her and ensure their is 100% NC. What are your snooping mechanisms? Did you expose to her job. Hate to say it but she needs to quit that job and work someone else. I'm sure this isn't her first time. Stay strong and firm. Make sure you read the basic concepts on this site and get those books. Also I recommend lovebusters the book.

Sorry about your wife. My wife actually used her finger nails to dig into her wrist. I thought it was just more selfishness from her.

You should answer the emails with a warning about contacting her again and implying pain would be involved. Your wife is never, ever to speak to, write to, or, really think about him again.

Here.
I Encourage BH to Confront OM

Her depression stems from the affair, which will continue as long as she teaches at the college her OM attends. This is why it is so imperative that she leave that job. Not only is the OM right there, but the conditions that allowed this affair to happen exist there. If you want to save your marriage and protect your wife from self destructive behavior, you will get her out of there.

Depression and suicidal ideation are classic symptoms of an adultery. The sooner she leaves that environment, the faster she will heal..

And yes, you should call or see the OM and tell that little POS to buzz off. You might want to also call his parents and ask them to intervene.

Dr Harley's advice is not to ignore your wife's trauma so that is a false dichotomy. He is a clinical psychologist and would not tell you to ignore it. Adultery causes suicidal thoughts and depression, so if you kept it a secret, you would be helping the affair THRIVE, which would be a direct contributor to her depression.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret would be much more destructive. And I am not saying this is the case, but we have had many, many wayward WIVES threaten suicide to stop their betrayed spouse from interfering in her affair. You need to be very alert to that factor. Wayward wives are notorious drama queens and "victims" who will play the suicide card or any other card to gain sympathy and prevent interference in her affair.

Thanks all. I am picking up the phone now to call the OM. Wish me luck.

Also, I just want to be clear that my WW is not depressed simply because of the affair, and that she has been suffering from depression for some time (realistically, all of her adult life). I'm sure the anxiety of the A has pushed it to new levels, but she talked of suicide before the A began (even before we were married). I have been foolish for pushing it under the rug for so long, and while you may be right that these threats stem from the drama of the A, she is still in need of mental help, and I feel we have to address that.

FYI, I'm being a little bit trusting right now of my wife, and I'm shaking my head for it, as she is out at a coffee shop doing work. I am monitoring her location and cell phone, and I am happy to say she has not slipped into contacting him yet, despite his efforts to contact her.

Okay, I'm stalling the conversation with the OM by writing too much. Time to go put a stop to his efforts...

That email account needs to go. Even after the OM receives your wife's NC letter, you cannot trust that he will just never send her an email to the address he has always used out of good faith. You need to close ALL avenues of possible contact.

Just wanted to point out that she is a professor and he is the student. She still works there.

It is good that you are killing the affair and getting her out of there, because affairs are notorious causes of depression.

hmmm... yes my WH was so happy depressed in his love nest with POSOW that he had a suicide attempt, but was released three days later.

Your wife is probably emailing OM in the coffee shop from another email account btw. Never trust a wayward.

bf1, I'm sorry you and your children are facing this crisis, but it's neither unexpected nor irreparable.

WW's often get suicidal, or at least extremely depressed, as they start recovery and the full realization of what they have done hits. MMS gave you his story. I had to willfully postpone recovery activities for several months while shepherding Bride away from the figurative ledge.

She had two men satisfying her key ENs. She is being forced to give one up, and at the same time is presented with the possibility of the second one leaving her for her offense. Putting on top of those issues the dawning necessity of having to change jobs (with whatever attendant economic disruptions will exist), and the loss of reputation among peers ("Hey did you hear about Mrs Bf1 and Skippy, the grad student?"), and family, and it is very obvious her self respect would plummet.

You are right to tend to her for the immediate future. The plan will not (can not) change if there is to be a totally rebuilt marriage, but first things first, dude.

Did you expose to the employer?
Te college needs to know.

Hi again,

Back, mostly because I'm hurting bad, but also to post an update. WW is currently at her IC while I am sitting in a dark living room, wondering what the hell is going on with our marriage and recovery. She just confessed that while she hasn't contacted OM since D-Day, she keeps feeling tempted to do so. I've been trying to show her how much I love her, and we had a really great morning today with our DD at her preschool. But when I asked her why she can't decide between him or me, she just can't answer. I feel like after 4 days of talking and sharing our love, she just doesn't seem to get that saving our marriage is the right thing to do.

To get a little personal, this morning we made love, but half way through, I just lost feeling for it, and we stopped. I've never done that before, and I told her it was because I can't feel love from her right now. I tried to show her how much I love her, and always have, and very tenderly spoke of times, memories, and qualities about her that made me love her. When I asked if she could do the same, she said no. She said there were things that she loved about me (and struggled listing some), but they didn't add up to loving me, and she had doubts that they ever did. I told her I refused to believe that, but she failed to make me feel otherwise.

I guess part of the problem I'm having here is convincing her that she did love me, and that she can again. I'm trying to reconcile the Plan A part of MB. While I feel I have been doing my part, she hasn't really committed to ending the affair. I know she has unfulfilled EN, and I'm trying to meet those, but it's becoming clear that she would rather OM meet those, since he has been doing so well at it for the past few months. How can I compare to him, even if she recognizes the A is wrong?

One silver lining (albeit a dull one at best) is that my confrontation with OM yesterday concluded with the POS apologizing to me and agreeing to never speak to her again. I have not told WW about this (should I?). But really, if she were to sneak off and find a pay phone and call him, I'm sure he'd sweet talk her ear off. And frankly, with her disregard towards my feelings, I'm sure she wouldn't even sneak off; she'd probably just call him using her cell phone, knowing darn well I'm monitoring it, just so she can get that fix. Why can't I convince her that she can get that fix from me?

Updates on the other fronts: The suicide thing seems to have subsided, and I'm glad she's at IC now. But depression is still an issue and we are hoping medication can help in the long run. She has not quit her job, and I'm not really pushing this. Right now, she is making the money for the household (I left my job two years ago to be a stay at home dad), so leaving her job would be financially disastrous. I do not believe her supervisor knows yet, although, as I mentioned, I did expose to coworkers, and I've not heard back from any of them, despite calling a few to followup on my email. She has not gone to work since D-Day. We are both concerned that possible legal action could result from her A, namely because it turns out the OM is a student and she has financed his education through school merit scholarships (she awards these and has given him two).

I know the advice is to expose to the school supervisors, but I know Dr. Hartley also says there are exceptions when it precludes financial hardship, and frankly, the lack of response I've gotten from the exposure to the coworkers has me fearful of the worst. I actually encouraged her to go to work today so she could talk to the coworkers she's closest with. To remind you, she can do this without contacting OM, as he is on a trip (which she financed through the school). But she felt it was best to stay home with DD and I, and I can't argue with that!

<sigh> I'm going to go do some dishes to take my mind off things. At least until my DD is awake and we can play dollhouse again...

Unfortunately this will be a consequence of her deciding to have an affair with him if some other student should report her. She has to leave the job anyway -- she MUST leave the job one way or another.

You need to email the radio show and go on as a couple. Email your story to mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. I think hearing from the good doctor himself will help your cause. Has your WW done a NC letter? If not I hate to say this considering how down you are but you are headed to a false recovery. As for financial hardships that's baloney. Your marriage can survive financial hardships but it won't survive her continued contact with this POSOM.

I agree that emailing Dr. Harley is a good idea. I doubt that he would state anything other than your wife should voluntarily resign though.

Your wife is in the fog. You can read up a lot about the fog from other posts on this site. It is where the WS rewrites history, claiming they were never happy, when the truth is we all started off at a happy place. Happy enough to walk down the aisle and commit to a lifelong partnership anyways.

Expect your wife to spew these hurtful statements for a while until she comes out of the fog. If she is in contact in anyway with OM, this will keep her in a perpetual state of fogginess. Hence I suggest no more trips to the cafe alone for a while. She probably contacted him there. You assume your wife would contact him in front of you. Why? She is pretty good at deception as you know by now. For now everything she says needs to be verified.

She needs to start sending out CVs right away. (I think you should also be applying for jobs at this point.) The best case scenario might be for her to teach courses which are 100% online. That would enable her to work entirely from home,so you wouldn't have to worry about her interacting with students in person. She'd also be able to handle the childcare if you start working outside the home. The biggest downside is that teaching online pays much less per course than teaching onsite.

Depression and addiction (to the OM) is a deadly combination. I agree that you need to delete any email accounts or phone numbers he used to contact her, according to MB principles. And that she needs to change jobs - teaching students online might be really good while she learns to accept boundaries. Depressed people often try to lift their depression with romantic thoughts and those thoughts being associated with OM is undoubtedly part of the problem.

And *of course* she's really tempted to contact him. Just like an alcoholic is tempted to take another drink! She's got to stick with the program or all that time gets wasted.

So what's left to do: NC letter, then delete the email address used to send it.
then change jobs as per Jessica's suggestion. I'm betting that online teaching is the best possible idea as well.

She would do well to get into some kind of hobby or activity with you that feels good and provide UA time, to block off the need for OM. (That's my personal opinion, although I think it goes with MB as well.)

I'm so sorry you are hurting.

I am going to gently point out just a few things to help you focus your efforts.


What you did not mention is her love bank. Think about how she wants her needs met. Not your need to emote your love for her. There is a difference.


Definitely not a Plan A thing to do. Your questioning her this way does not make love bank deposits.


Of course she can't. Stop asking her "why" questions. It will not draw her closer to you.


You are speaking about an addict. Addicts 'feel', they seldom 'think'. Right now, for her anything that does not 'feel good' seems like the wrong thing to do. Her moral compass is not her guide right now. Her emotions are her guide. Your expectations she recognize logic as a tool are going to disappoint you.


It would have been brilliant if you had said nothing but to ask her if you could hold each other in silence.


Remember, in Plan A, you make strategic decisions to meet her needs the way she wants them to be met.


Way to go !!!! YES!


She can't right now. Stop asking.


OK. This conversation happened. Now stop setting her up to hurt you.


You can't do that. Thinking you can do that IS part of your problem with Plan A.


Please, take this critique the way I intend it. You are not following Plan A with a lot of what you have written here.
You are trying to force the outcome you want by squeezing it out of her. She probably hates that.


Exactly what are those ENs. Exactly how have you been making an effort to do that? If you don't focus on those in a clear way, your Plan A will be overly emotional and not effective.


If OM is her heroin, then yes, heroin would make her happier right now. Heroin also makes people ill.



I am trying to explain that to you.
You need to Plan A the correct way.


Not a dull one at all! VERY BIIGHT in fact.


Do you see your problem here? You are trying to "convince" her. You are also wanting immediate results.


Please do not disregard what I am about to say next. If there is ever another threat of suicide, dial 911. No discussion.


You may want to POJA this arrangement once her head is clear. She may not truly be happy being the 'income' while you enjoy raising the kids on a day-to-day basic. I by no means think this is a discussion to have right now. Future.


Never stand between the adulterous and the consequences of his/her decisions.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Straight from Dr. H.


Read aloud to yourself very slowly. Then, do it again.

Thanks Pepperband. I'm back on here after some time. Both my wife and I have been reading SAA and it has been wonderful, but your comments are something I could really use right now. I'm struggling with exactly what you pointed out, and I think the hardest thing to deal with right now is overcoming my emotions about this whole affair. While I'm not flying off the handle, I am guilty of occasional disrespectful judgements, and while I try to catch myself and stop, sometimes they slip out. And you are absolutely right, I seem to be forcing the issue too often because I want some comfort from her. It may be the hardest part for us BS to suffer the affair and deal with these feelings of rejection while we try to comfort our waywards out of the fog. Last night I read the chapter on resentment, and I'm trying to take all that in at the moment.

On a side note, while I love the book, my wife's been particularly drawn to it because it's helping her articulate her feelings during pre- and post-affair. While I'm glad for this, it is very painful for her to relate to Sue so well and she points out on occasion how much she loves the OM. I try to remind her that this is hurting me and disrespectful, and to your point, Pepper, how do you remind someone that they hurt and are continuing hurting you while at the same time trying to foster an environment for love and support of that person? I know Dr. Hartley addresses that, but any tips would be welcome.

The good news is that WW and I have been spending a lot more time together, and we are currently planning a weekend trip without our DD for this weekend. Just as SAA says, planning time together is important, but we are struggling with that management since we have a DD and no one is available to watch her (both our families live out of state and we don't have many friends here, let alone some that we trust to watch our DD for a weekend). So, we are flying to see family, and the financial toll is weighing on us a bit (this little weekend recovery trip is gonna set us back a couple thousand bucks!). But the time is invaluable, including more workouts together and a date tonight!

ugh, just this withdrawal is so painful... I'll be happy once we can start loving each other again, but I wish it would come soon...

BF, I'm glad you said so well what I have been going through. I'm looking forward to the responses because I too cannot get past the pain right now.

Good luck

Stick with the MB plan, and your marriage will become better than it ever was. That is what happened for us.

T I M E.

If the WS is snapped cold out of the affair and is regretful, less TIME.

If the WS is mired in fog, more TIME.

Resent and anger are TIME adders as are DJ and definitely, the granddaddy of all time adders, is the Angry Outburst.

Tons of UA with both of you hitting on the ENs of each other with a date night here and there and loving environment are TIME reducers.

I can safely attest that just shy of 2 years out, the resent and anger are so low. Not imaginable how low just 4 or 5 months ago.

T I M E heals all wounds, this aint no different.

Some sage advisers here say 2 to 5 years is the TIME frame for anger, resent, and pain to start to subside.

So strap in as the ride can be brutal.

Man, on days like today, the thought of 2 to 5 years is pretty soul crushing. I was just guilty of a slight Angry Outburst and I'm just deflated right now. I should be working on a job application, but all I can think about right now is my pain. After a nice walk with WW this morning, I went to kiss her this afternoon and she recoiled. I asked what was wrong and she she just shook her head. After a little talk, she said the thing that gets me every time: "I just don't know. I really miss him." It's so frustrating to me when at one moment she can call me a great guy, and then later say she can't commit to rebuilding our marriage until she's done being confused. She keeps throwing back at me that she feels she should have ended it with OM on her terms, and not through the NC letter or with me calling him.

Let me reiterate, she has not contacted OM since D-Day, but not a day has gone by that she doesn't remind me she wants to contact him. In anger today, I finally just said, "go ahead then, call him!" She said she wouldn't, but only because she feels she needs some time to figure things out on her own without him. I told her that was the wrong answer; that she should tell me she won't call him ever because she respects me and our marriage. Her response was that she wished she could say that, but just can't.

Now she's at her therapist, who is telling her the most important thing for her to figure out is herself and not whether she should be with me or OM. She seems to enjoy these therapy sessions, but I feel like she's being reinforced a selfish idea after committing one of the most selfish acts she could ever have done...

Many therapists kill marriages.
"figure yourself out"

What can that mean?

Its certainly not very goal oriented.

You need to follow the recovery plan in Surviving an Affair EXaCTLY.
Are you doing that?

You need to call the coaching center. Bottom line they offer better therapy than some dumb therapist telling her she will need time alone. She is going to take that and run with it. She is extremely foggy and will be looking from a misconstrued sign from God to contact OM and hurt you again.

Im not the best person to advise a BH whose wife is still pining for the deviant who is aiding her in destroying her marriage.

I, personally, would not have tolerated a single minute of it. If I detected that my wife had any interest in him after dday, I would have grabbed a trash bag and would have loaded her clothing for her and threw it out the front door. To me, even a fleeting thought in to her head would have been grounds for separation. I gave her the choice in the first 5 minutes of dday.

The big difference, perhaps, is my wife was in a long term thing with her guy which clearly ran its course. And, when it was discovered it was already over emotionally (and for a while at that).

That being said you need to get with the pros at MB and have the help you and her work through this.

A time frame needs to be set where you stop tolerating her having this "need" for closure. If losing her husband, home, and child isnt enough, what is?

Fortunately for me, my wife did not take long to defog. But I remember her depression over the loss of her "friend". My reaction to it was "would you be happier saying goodbye to our 30 years together?"

Waiting out the fog is tough; no doubt about that. You need to keep them apart, or the recovery clock will be reset to zero. Don't give her an excuse for contacting the OM.

I'm not the best person to advise a BH whose wife is still pining...To me, even a fleeting thought in to her head would have been grounds for separation.

MSS, if this were the SOP for treating WWs immediately after d-day, the universe of recovered BH marriages here would consist of....yours and mine.

BF1, WWs do NOT typically untangle from their affections and linkages to their POSOMs instantaneously. That is simply a factual reflection of the emotional "neediness" of the usual WW. They had a desperate need; they filled it (illicitly); they cannot imagine not having that emotional teat to suck on; they return (even imaginatively) to their EN-satisfied state with OM.

The BH is burdened with putting aside his pain, and tending to hers, as brutally unfair and irrational as that sounds. In essence, the early Plan A can be exaggerated to be:

"Oh, sweetie, your knee again requires violent upwards
exercise? Really? Okay, even though you just kneed me in
the stones, I want you to try to refrain from doing it..."
WHACK! "Good, sweetie, do you feel better? (Groan...)"

Eventually, her knee no longer needs that treatment. It may be however, that the pain of the stone-kneeing causes the LB$ balance to reach zero before she stops. In that case BH goes to Plan B.

So, how long do you think you can grit your teeth, ignore the pain, and Plan A?

I understand the mixed feeling, and the sludge of emotional crap that you have to wade through just to find some happiness.

In your Plan A you have to remind yourself over and over that you are powerful, positive person, and that you need to treat yourself every once in a while to something that will help give you energy. Give yourself affirmations in the mirror, remind yourself that you can do this.

I understand that these things are hard to do, but worth it in the long run. Understand the reason why you want to save your marriage and keep it focused.

You do have to be the person that your wife cries on when she is having a hard time. This is a hard time for the two of you, but you have to be attractive and let her know that you are there for her. It's like a double edged sword, it hurts you every time she wants to tell you her feeling, but that is what you are there for.

Keep an eye out for what is going on behind the scenes also, what behaviour is she demonstrating that indicates there is ongiong contact?

Hi all,

Back after a while with a bit of news. So the recovery is going pretty good, I think. WW and I were fortunate enough to go away for a week together for some much needed UA. I think it really helped! Her fog is nearly lifted, although we had a bit of a setback, which I'll talk about below. But overall, I really think things are going well.

So the set-back was a double-whammy. It started when I caught my wife lying about a detail regarding the A. I confronted her about it and she immediately apologized, saying that she didn't want to hurt me (without going into any details, let's say it involved her buying gifts for the OM during their affair and I found out about it on our credit card statement). We began discussing trust and I mentioned it's difficult for me to trust her when she lies. I ask her again if she's had any contact with OM, and she answers no, emphatically. BUT THEN, no sooner does she answer, her cell phone rings, and the POS is calling her! She hands me the phone, I answer and step outside to curse at this little idiot! Let me tell you, it was quite a conversation

Good news is, that I'm pretty confident it was isolated, and I do believe WW is honest that there has been no contact. My trust in her is rebuilding as our recovery is moving so well. Turns out the POSOM was calling because he was worried about WW's job. Turns out my exposure to her coworkers is getting my WW into some hot water (although to be fair, it's the A that is getting her into hot water, and I don't regret the exposure one bit!). She and OM are being investigated and WW could be terminated if things go south. WW is very anxious about this, but thankfully is finding strength in me and our marriage and family to get through this.

I'm not on here tonight seeking advice, but did want to update and say thank you to everyone on here. I was pretty ignorant at the beginning of this thread, and I'm starting to see things more clearly thanks to advice from people here and on other threads (Pepperband, your post the other to BH was invaluable and I've reread it everyday since!). I plan on continuing to post here, as I'm entering new territory during the recovery and could use y'all's support as we progress. Thanks!

Great news!

Why hasn't she changed her contact information?

Is she still teaching where OM is?

Losing her job is a result of sleeping with a student, nothing else.

Unless he works for the cell phone company, he should have no way of learning her NEW CELL PHONE NUMBER she got after dday. This is a critical aspect to recovery. Did she get a new number???

Just seeing his number appear on her phone is contact made and thankfully you were there. Next time you may not be.

Maybe a visit to this boy is the next step? He is actively seeking to take what's yours and destroy whatever remains, to me this warrants a visit with your largest friend riding shotgun.

I dream of the contact attempt even 2 years later. I dream of the chance meeting. Your wife's OM is begging for it.

These are also harrassment calls since OM has been told NC ever again. Your first step should be to engage the police to pay him a visit before you visit him personally. You personal visit could escalate very quickly and cause you more problems in the end. Dont get me wrong, I'm all for the "teachable moments" with a POSOM, but if you have a lawsuit to deal with after the fact, you will never get him out of your life.

If he's tough enough to do BF's wife and tough enough to continue to try to speak to her after being told not to, then he's tough enough for a face to face visit from the guy whose wife he's banging.

"Knocking him senseless is a crime of passion, your honor. He was trying to ruin my family and he wouldnt stop trying."

MSS, while the BH in me says, "Yeah, let'r rip man. kick his a$$", the realist in me says, "this could go on for months/years in court if I do and I want this guy out of our lives".

Quick responses here:

1. She has not changed her phone number but has given me access to her phone at all times and I am monitoring all activity on it. In this day and age, people tend to not recognize phone numbers, and so when he called, she didn't know who it was, but suspected it was him, and handed me the phone. She has received other calls from unknown numbers and simply doesn't answer it. She is committed to no contact, and we are doing what we can to make sure that happens. But hell, he could drive to our house anytime if he really wanted!

2. She is still working at the school, but is taking the rest of the semester off. She has a meeting at the school next week with HR regarding her investigation, and she has told HR that she wants the meeting in a private conference room directly off of a remote parking lot, so she hops in and out without seeing anyone (OM or otherwise). OM graduates after this semester, and so wont be around. Although, again, if we was really desperate to see her, he'd find a way.

3. WW is actively looking for jobs out of state, and we are considering moving across the country, but this is taking a little time.

4. WW has also told coworkers about OM and her concern about potentially seeing him, and has asked them to help her avoid contact. OM spends little time on campus, and is relegated to a different part of the rather large campus. In the event WW has to go to her office, she has agreed to go from her car to her office and close the door (I can monitor this with pretty precise GPS tracking). She is not teaching classes until the investigation is over, which will be after the semester is over.

5. Hopefully we find new jobs out of state before the summer, and we plan to move if that happens.

I've more to discuss regarding the move, and how it meets my emotional needs. I am certainly concerned regarding a drastic move for many reasons, but I'll address my questions in another post later on. For now, I've got a list of "honey-dos" that I have to complete before my wife returns from the library with our DD.

Oh, and regarding going over to POSOM's place and confronting him, don't think I haven't thought it (and my large best friends has already said he's got my back ), but Wow777 is right. Still, my last words to him over the phone was that if he ever tries to contact my wife again, the sh** will REALLY hit the fan!

This is very encouraging! I wish you well with your recovery and hope that the jobs and the move become reality sooner rather than later.

Here.
"I Encourage BHs to Confront OM" Dr. Harley

She needs to change all her contact information. He will continue to try and call and hope she isn't around you and Will take his call.