Marriage Builders
I first posted on*****edit****forum last fall, so i will provide the initial intro information from that timeline. Know that the dates mentioned are from last fall.

We can catch up as we go along.

I've read nearly every thread here daily for the past 1-2 months and just wish that i could intuitively think outside my original thoughts and reaction, so linksi delay reacting to prevent poor results is what i hope, but they haven't changed.

I am familiar with all the articles on this site and listen to the MB Radio when links are posted.

From intro post last September, 2012.


Firstly, my W moved out on February 16th of this year, 2012. She Firstly, my W moved out on February 16th of this year, 2012. She rarely makes contact, even to visit or call our only child, S-9.

We began dating in Fall of 2001 and our 1st kiss was December 5th 2001.

We got engaged in March 2002 at Disney World in front of the castle..

She became pregnant on her birthday on May 19th 2002

She moved in with me in June 2002.

Son born February 2003.

We were both in AA and had gotten to know each other after meetings at restaurants along with her mother who was also in AA, for the previous 6 months.

December 2004 we bought a new House/Home in a very nice neighborhood.

Iwas self employed as a contractor and scaled down my business when Little [removed name] started Pre-School so i could take him to school every day and still do now that he started 4th Grade.

Ialways took and did equal responsibility from changing diapers to anything else to help out in his child care.

2008 she stopped going to AA meetings at the beginning of the year.

Throughout the 1st 7-8years together we Never had anargument which in hindsight i now know was aproblem, because she either stuffed the problems internally or discussed them with her mom instead of dealing with them directly with me. Her mom would soothe her down and tell her that i might have meant something else than what she had presumed.

All of her journal writings and cards to me for this 2001 through beginning of 2008 stated how i made her feel more loved and adored than by anyone else in her entire life and that she had more than she could have ever asked, dreamed or prayed for and that i was her soulmate.

By the way, i was 43 and she was 25 when we 1st met.

Right after Thanksgiving of 2008, her mom was hospitalized and remained there till February 7th when she passed away. One week earlier, they had her go home for a day because they thought she would be released shortly.

My wife lived at the hospital at her bedside the entire duration and was broke down physically and emotionally. Her mom was in a medically induced coma for a long time while there.

Itook care of our son and asked if i should be at the hospital more often with

Iasked her if she wanted me to be at the hospital more with my wife, but she insisted that she just wanted to be alone their. My Big Mistake!!!

On way home from Labor Day 3 day trip to my parents, she upsets me with repeated comments about referring me to use a particular mechanic, but forewarns me that he and her used to drink together and she would often wake up in bed with him and say, Oh Chit, i did it again. This theme was repeated over 6 times and was really pizzing me off. Whats the purpose of repeating this to me?

Now to Labor Day weekend 2009. Our 1st argument. She points out she is not happy in the marriage. She points out that I dropped her on the face of the earth when her mom was sick and after she died. She also points out some of my poor characteristics of how i dealt with things around the house and says that i dont do enough to help out at home.

Iam completely perplexed, but proclaim that someday we will both look back at this day and say it was the best thing to happen in our marriage,because now i finally know what she expects of me.

3weeks go by and i am doing alot of extra things daily but i discover a spiral notebook on the kitchen table containing love poems an letters between her and an ex-boyfriend fforrom when she was 17 years old who happened to be the 1st guy she had sex with. They were talking about how they soon would be married and i discovered internet browser links searching for a3 bedroom apartment in the area where he lived.

Another thing, when her mom seemed like she could come home, i agreed that she could live with us and i would clean out our dining room and make it into a bedroom for her. Also, after her mom died, i had her younger sister move into our home with no expenses required.

Also, after my wifes moms wake, she reacquainted herself with old high school friends anf at least once per month she stayed out till 1:00 the next afternoon. I didnt like it but she was grieving severely so i accepted it without complaint and always took care of our son when she wss gone.

Idiscovered that she had been texting that guy over 4,000 times per month since January 2009.

When i asked her when she got home at 1:00 in the afternoon if she would stop beibg in touch with that guy so we can see about working on our marriage, she said, I dont think i can do that. It wouldn't be fair to him. WTF??? Months later i found something she wrote about him..... Ah, finally. Harmonious Love At Last. Then on December 5th 2009, i discover texts betwern her and thrr guy that she was going to meet when she was supposed to pick up her sister from work. This guy was a long time group friend and her Best Friends on again off again boyfriend. She texted that she just needed to be in his arms tonight,because he is the only guy for her.

So, just to slightly continue my story.....

From September, 2009, I have not been able to think straight and allowed my Thought Disorder to manifest itself so deeply, that i could not do anything except for research how to fix things up in our marriage and I tried to do alot more around the house and continued to take our son to school every day as I always had, but I had NO desire to concentrate on work at all.

Dang, i really allowed my own self to screw my life up financially.

Sooo many thought running through my head right now as to trying to piece together this past 3 years events, which I suppose are mostly irrelevant now.

Icontinued to attend to our son,signed him up for Cub Scouts and Catechism Religious Classes in 2009 when he started 1st grade and take him to Church most every Sunday. We go on campouts with the scouts and also attend all of the other Pack functions and he enjoys his friendships quite a bit.

My wife moved out of the home about 7 months and 1 day ago without giving any advance notice, with the exception that she was continually completely depressed while at home and taking anti-depressants and mood stabilizers and allergy pills that make her fall asleep, so basically, when she was home she was just sleeping in the recliner chair and that was it.

Slightly after we attended Marriage Counseling in February 2010, which lasted 6 months before her job schedule changed her mind about going anymore, she "Friended" that 1st Cheating Partner on her Facebook Page. WTF???

IHate Facebook!!!!! Nah, it just makes a cheating experience easier to hide away as do many other sites, like Reunion.com and Classmates.com and MyLife.com.

Idetached pretty well after she moved out, but still kept her informed about the ongoings of our son, who she gratefully left with me to take carwe of. But, her visits with her own son have been extremely sporadic, usually averaging betwee 26 to 36 days apart without ANY contact with him at al, not even aphone call.

Recently, she went 61 datys without any phone call or visit to him.

Our son seems to be doing finem, but I am always on the alert for any signs of problems. Last year during the sprin of his 3rd grade, his teacher commented about a lack of attention and focus, so I had the school social worker check in with him each day with a check in-check out program they have there.

Dang, we had the PERFECT life that everyone would have been envious of.

IStill believe that the caompassionate and moral person who Imarried a long time ago is still there inside somewhere and Iwant to be there for her when she resurfacves,if its not too late.

She has been doing alot of drinking and even her own sister told me that she never realized how much of adrinking problem that my wife had until she saw how much she drank over this past summer.

My own personal beliefs is that when she dropped out of AA her thinking started to turn a slight bit more negative, but add on top of that, when her mom got sick, was hospitalized,was put into a medically incuced coma, and then seemed to be getting better enough so that they were considering sending her home in 1 week, then she passed away, that the schock was beyond my wifes coping mechanisms and she had dropped her support group that she could have turned to.

Taking a break from typing now. makes contact, even to visit or call our only child, S-9.
MB doesn't work until after the primary addiction to alcohol and/or drugs is handled appropriately.

I think the best thing you can do for her is take care of yourself and her (your) child to the best of your ability such that if and when she sobers up you can possibly be there for her.

Until then...get out of the way.

How are you managing day to day? Are you concentrating at work?? Your son is depending on YOU, his sole remaining sane parent to remain sane for him for many more years to come. This forum jumping looking for the magic pill to fix your ill wife isn't necessarily helpful or healthy FOR YOU.

YOU MATTER TOO.

An alternative approach... hire an attorney, file for divorce (or, at least, legal separation) demanding full custody, sole possession of the home and marital assets and that this woman pay you child support. Enabling her addictions and abandonment of you and your son isn't helpful to any of you. Perhaps, just perhaps, hauling her into court and having her face consequences for her behavior is one way to "bring the bottom up" so to speak and perhaps, initiate a "come to Jesus moment" whereupon she finally seeks help for her addiction(s).

Godspeed,
Mr. W
No divorce is on file. Me and my S-10 are covered from her work insurance. I have non-legal unordered full 100% custody of our son.

She has only seen and spoken to him 1 time for 1 hour in the past 178 days.

I gave up trying to facilitate more contact and visits after mid February, because she said i was making her feel like a bad mother and also stopped cheering her on to go back to AA because she had a temporary split up with her current live in AP and went back to 1 AA meeting, but i was chastised for trying to send positive encouraging messages about that to her.

I cut off all phone calls to her and only respond via e-mail, but the last contact was mid to end of May.

I had a Trigger occur last week.

I had an old e-mail account that i couldn't use for the past 9 months and finally got it opened up last week with the administrative service resetting the password, and low and behold, she had sent an e-mail at the beginning of June that i didn't know about.

We had communicated with my new e-mail since that time, but contact is now non-existent.

I know ongoing alcoholism takes 1st place from what I've learned, so I'm not clinging to any hope at this time.

Someday, maybe, i would like to learn how to re-engage her into non-adversarial communication. I want to plant those seeds when the opportunity may arise, just to know how and what to say and respond.

I am finally filing for CS through the public entity that assists with that.

I'm only using a cell phone and cant see if i missed any questions, but if you keep them short, i can reply to them more efficiently.

LTL
Oh, regarding work and finances. I dropped the ball and couldn't concentrate on anything except for restoring our marriage and taking care of our son.

I regained my contractors license just 2 weeks ago and am starting from scratch. I used up my entire savings and IRA to survive and am currently in foreclosure, but recently sold my business property and caught up on back property taxes for a rental unit i own.

LTL
Keep good notes on what she does and does not do for the child. If you want to keep custody and get CS that is a GREAT idea.
Thank you KR and also Mr W.

Yes, i keep track of every contact and the total days since contact.

It's still so sad to see what she has missed out on, but that's why i do not initiate any contact, because no matter how benign and harmless or encouraging with whatever i can find to validate and empathize, it gets interpreted with negativity, so any former pursuit is done with.

After her brief split up with the current POSOM, i felt she tried reaching out to me, but she wouldn't put anything in her own words, but just relied on a song lyric and YouTube video, called Fallen.

Here are the lyrics:

Fallen

By: Sarah McLachlan

Lyrics

Heaven bent to take my hand And lead me through the fire Be the long awaited answer To a long and painful fight

Truth be told I've tried my best But somewhere along the way I got caught up in all there was to offer And the cost was so much more than I could bear

Though I've tried, I've fallen... I have sunk so low I have messed up Better I should know So don't come round here And tell me "I told you so..."

We all begin with good intent Love was raw and young We believed that we could change ourselves The past could be undone But we carry on our backs the burden Time always reveals The lonely light of morning The wound that would not heal It's the bitter taste of losing everything That I have held so dear...

I've fallen... I have sunk so low I have messed up Better I should know So don't come round here And tell me "I told you so..."

Heaven bent to take my hand Nowhere left to turn I'm lost to those I thought were friends To everyone I know Oh they turned their heads embarrassed Pretend that they don't see But it's one missed step You'll slip before you know it And there doesn't seem a way to be redeemed

Though I've tried, I've fallen... I have sunk so low I have messed up Better I should know So don't come round here And tell me "I told you so..." [2X]

That was back at the beginning if March. She last visited our S-10 about one week after his birthday, which was the day after she said the AP will no longer be a problem for visitation, because they had split-up the previous day.

When she did pick him up, she called one hour later and said she couldn't deal with her anxieties and requested me to meet her to get him back. I was still trying to facilitate visitations and tried to see if she wanted to see him each of the next 2 evenings, but she declined for the same rational, also stating that she would pick him up on that Thursday, which she canceled for the same reason and said she would see him on Saturday instead, which also didn't happen.

She used to be a very good mother and i thought a good wife too. Just like all the other WS's, she has become an alien and is not the same person any longer.

The missed e-mail expressed some regrets over her relationship with our S-10, but it wasn't sent to my current active account we had been using and she never followed up on those words with any other actions.

I still want to respond in a positive demeanor to her, so that someday she can feel safe to open up and communicate properly and hopefully try to be a part of our Sons lufe once again.

Since there are no legal restrictions, i have made it clear that she can not have him while her AP is around.

My main DJ that i have pointed out to her, is how he relapse has affected her life. I haven't lectured her on that though now since around Christmas though.

IF she reconnects, what would be the safest dialogue track we could talk about, or do i just be brief and keep it to comments about our Son?

I am looking to be prepared if and when future conversations or e-mails may occur, so i want to be prepared to be a safe respite for her to feel she can trust being open with me.

LTL
Here.
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT
Thank you BH. i figured you would be around with links, lol.

Any archived radio segments dealing with a similar situation?

Wifey had a horrible inconsistent upbringing, but had gone to counseling prior to and after we met. She was often farmed out to other families from the age of 1 through 12 due to her single mothers addictions to alcohol and then to crack cocaine.

She also was a repeated victim of CSA by her female babysitter when she was around 5. Abandonment has been her legacy. She tested and was diagnosed for BPD, but i prefer to not use labels, especially since she is/was on the high functioning spectrum and ishe is not a cutter, along with not showing the signs until her own mothers hospitalization and unexpected death. Just a point for frame of reference.

LTL
I will look.

Is she back in AA? Does she have a sponsor? Are you in AlAnon or AA?
Here is a good one.
Radio Clip on Addictions

Tell us what you think.
Just got done reading the Document, Document, Document thread. I have done a decent job of that, especially since she moved out with no advance notice to ether myself or our Son.

She previously had been in AA for just under 10 years.

On February 18th, she went back to 1 meeting, which was the day after the AP split up with her, so i presume her drinking had something to do with that, but he's an alcoholic too and is at the bar 3-4 times per week till closing time.

She hasn't been back since.

Now to listen to the Radio link.

Thanks,

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Oh, regarding work and finances. I dropped the ball and couldn't concentrate on anything except for restoring our marriage and taking care of our son.

I regained my contractors license just 2 weeks ago and am starting from scratch. I used up my entire savings and IRA to survive and am currently in foreclosure, but recently sold my business property and caught up on back property taxes for a rental unit i own.

LTL

I am also a contractor.
Like yourself I went broke during this hell.
I'm climbing out of the hole now.

Regarding foreclosure, that can be delayed months with an attorney.

Like yourself, my ex wife basically walked away.
I have full custody.
I encourage You to ask for a custody evaluation to ensure you receive full custody.
There is light at the end of te tunnel.
Focus on you and your kid
Here's another show.
Radio Clip
Tell us what you think?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here's another show.
Radio Clip
Tell us what you think?

BH,

All of the Logic part of my Logic part of me knows i can not save my wife, but i can save myself, so i agree and for the majority of the time, i have let her go so she can continue to destroy her life and hopefully hit her bottom.

Very little of my concern or empathy has been accepted by her and as a point to illustrate how she twists things around to spew hatred towards me, I'll describe a recent example..

Her sister had requested this past winter that i keep her updated with what's going on in my sons life, so about once a month i had sent her a photo of what he's doing. A week before Mothers Day, i took our son to visit my M-I-l's grave memorial to remind him of her and to say Prayers for her. She died 4 1/2 years ago when he was in kindergarten, so his memories of her are minimal.

I felt that was something that was very respectful to do.

Well, 2 1/2 hours after i texted a message to my S-I-L, which commented how well taken care of the marker site looked and that someone had recently put a very pretty flower in the attached vase, my W replied 2 words, because S-I-L forwarded my message to her. That message said..... F**K OFF.

I never bothered replying to that.

That should have been an act that seemingly should have been appreciated, but it definitely was not.

I took my son my son there right after his Saturday morning karate class and the Bar she hangs out at is one block away from the cemetery entrance and i did see her car in the parking lot before noon. I didn't mention that to her or the SIL though.

I just mainly keep on doing the right things for my son and am trying to restart my contracting company as my primary focus.

JK,

I started out my foreclosure when i got served 1 3/4 years ago and do have an attorney after i started the procedure pro se. My attorney says i can possibly delay this an additional 6-12 months, which hopefully gives me time to catch up on my finances. Getting leads is my biggest problem since i haven't pursued the business and marketing ever since September of 2009, when D-Day discovery first occurred. My website dropped off googles 1st page and rarely gets me any leads now. I need to SEO it all over again.

LTL
We began dating in Fall of 2001 and our 1st kiss was December 5th 2001.

We got engaged in March 2002 at Disney World in front of the castle..

She became pregnant on her birthday on May 19th 2002

She moved in with me in June 2002.

Son born February 2003.

December 2004 we bought a new House/Home in a very nice neighborhood.


Maybe I missed it, but was there a mention anywhere of actually getting married?
Lol. Maybe i didn't write that in. Too late to edit it now though.

Yes, we were married in June of 2004.

LTL
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I will look.

Is she back in AA? Does she have a sponsor? Are you in AlAnon or AA?

I missed answering this question. My apologies BH. I did not mean to disregard it.

I have continuously been sober and attend regular AA meetings every week for a little over 19 years, plus i started attending Al-Anon once a week this past spring, but have felt i was getting more out of the AA meetings. I will still continue to sparse some Al-Anon meetings in though.

My W used to attend AA meetings regularly until about 1 year prior to her moms hospitalization and untimely death. Nearly no meetings for that year, but still sober until after her mom got sick or after she passed away. I don't know exactly when she relapsed.

Currently, she only went to 1 AA meeting the day after her AP temporarily split up with her and was "Supposed To" be moving out of her apartment. She hinted that she was leaning on going to more, but that didn't ever happen.

That e-mail she sent to my former address mentioned how she is not drinking as much as she thinks that i think she is. I'll post that after i edit out the personal information later on.

Alcohol is a destroyer. It is said that it is more of a "Thinking Disease", rather than a "Drinking Disease".

I do such a wonderful job of being a great Dad for our S-10, but it pains me to see how her absence occasionally affects him. He has had several sad reflections about how long it's been since he saw his ma-ma and was brought to tears about it. I think i handled it properly, but is still hurts.

He was reviewing his own digital camera recently and came across photos of 3 deceased pets he had and then a photo of his mom and stated that it feels like she is dead too, just like his pets.

LTL
Good job for staying active in your recovery.

Is there anyway you can call her sponsor? Will she get back into recovery?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good job for staying active in your recovery.

Is there anyway you can call her sponsor? Will she get back into recovery?

I did try to feel out that situation last spring, with her original sponsor and it was met with a stand that my W knows where the phone is if she wanted to seek that out.

At the 1 meeting she went to earlier this year, mid February, she sort of called a forner friend of her mom, and temporarily kept in touch with her. That person was not in favor of tying to intercede, even on the behalf of our Son, who had just turned 10 the week earlier.

I was, at that time, trying to be supportive only of her recovery and my W lashed out at me in an e-mail stating that I was Not Her Sponsor, so just butt the F out. I did.

I'm trying to currently still work on me and my business, starting all over from scratch and improve. I also still attend IC for myself and to check that i am doing the right things for my S-10.

Some AA'ers just don't want to get personally involved, except in regards to the Big Book and 12 Steps Only as it relates to alcohol.

Thank you for responding.

LTL
Well they don't want to get involved because thus the first step...acknowledging we are powerless over alcohol and the alcoholi C
How's it going L2L?
Awe, thanks for reaching back and thinking of my situation BH.

I restored my contractors license and placed several ads to obtain leads, such as in the newspaper service directory, a coupon discount book, and hired a telemarketing company to call 10,000 names of property owners. I just signed
my 1st complete job 3 days ago, along with doing a small repair job 2 weeks ago.

In the past month, i have taken our S-10 on a camp out with his fellow scout pack, gone to an old friends BBQ party, enjoyed his 1st time going to Six Flags Great America, and spent a day at the nearby Renaissance Faire.

He also started 5th Grade and we had our 1st Parent-Teacher Conference Wednesday evening. He enjoys reading, karate, scouting activities and playing Minecraft on the computers at the library.

He has, in my opinion, a minor Separation Anxiety issue and ever since our Marital Issue began on D-Day, September 27th, 2009, he runs out to find me, even if i am only in the garage getting something out of the freezer. The other evening, when i went into the Walgreens while he was playing his Minecraft game on his tablet, he came into the store instead of waiting in the vehicle and accidentally dropped his tablet and shattered the glass touchpad screen and cried for 1/2 hour, because he plays it all the time when we drive someplace, plus it was a belated Christmas gift from his mother, which contained photos of her that she had loaded onto it for him. Sooo Sad.

I signed him up for band/orchestra class at school and he chose the violin to play, because it makes sweet melodies from some Harry Potter movie song he likes.

I attended a HUD approved Consumer Credit Counseling service for assistance in modifying my home mortgage, which i am 26 months behind on and in foreclosure. I have no tax forms filed for the past 4 years, so it is really important that i show a profit for the next 3-6 months to viably be eligible.

This upcoming Labor Day weekend, we will visit my parents lake home in Wisconsin and enjoy my Sister and 2 brothers familys and the my son can play with his cousins near his age.

I still think about my Wife with every half idle moment i have. I miss and love the woman she was so much and tried so hard, but because i didn't utilize any plan and just did Plan A version of Doormat for the duration, i lost my chance of her desiring to reconcile. But, that is 100% out of the picture since she continues in her alcohol relapse, yet my heart still wants to get her to see what she has done to her life and our family.

Today, it is 214 days since she had a true successful visit with our son, just 2 weeks prior to him turning 10 years old. It now has been 194 days since she last spoke with him during an aborted attempt at a visit, that she couldn't deal with, due to her upset anxieties from temporarily being split up with her current POSOM affair partner.

Yesterday, out of the blue, her youngest sister sent me a message via FB. She lived in our home for 2 years after my M-I-L passed away. She got married and had a child in March and wants to establish contact with my Son.

I'm hesitant, because she aided in concealing my W's 1st and 2nd affairs and let my W use her cell phone when i caught on. She was completely ungrateful to me for letting her live here for 2 years for free and added to the marital discord.

I'm still going to IC on a weekly basis for myself and attend 4-5 AA meetings per week.

I still wonder if there is anyway to disrupt her current affair. I still want her to see how she changed and confront how her own choices and relapse are responsible.

That's my hearts desire.

My logic part knows it is futile.

I miss my wife and our dreams and our intact loving family.

I also continue to read every new post on MB in 4 of the sub-forums and listen to the daily MB Radio once or twice per week.

Can some version of exposure break up a year plus long living together affair?
Would pointing out how she abandoned her son since relapsing nudge any support to shame her to seek recovery?

I don't think so.

Thanks for asking how we were doing though.

LTL


We have many, many times on these boards how the affair can explode up to 4+ years later.

Have you ever asked SIL why would you want her to have contact with you and your DS10 when she helped your WW's affair? Maybe Plan B her.

I'm so glad you're sticking with your AlAnon meetings.

So you and your DS10 haven't heard from your WW in 194 days?

Are you in Plan B?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
We have many, many times on these boards how the affair can explode up to 4+ years later.

Have you ever asked SIL why would you want her to have contact with you and your DS10 when she helped your WW's affair? Maybe Plan B her.

I'm so glad you're sticking with your AlAnon meetings.

So you and your DS10 haven't heard from your WW in 194 days?

Are you in Plan B?

Correct on the 194 days since she has spoken to our son.

She did make 2 phone calls in March when we were on a mini-vacation to a tourist town with lots of indoor waterparks to enjoy during the end of winter.

The 1st call went to my voice mail and she was so giddy drunk that she mis-spoke both her name and mine be reversing them. I did not reply.

The 2nd one was in a pizzed off demeanor that also went to my voice mail, which i also did not respond to.

Then i ensured that Any calls from her go directly to voice mail.

I currently will only reply if she e-mails me.

She has not attempted to contact me via my e-mail since. No need to Plan B. It's already done by default.

LTL
I reiterate from my previous post.

" Can some version of exposure break up a year plus long living together affair?

Would pointing out how she abandoned her son since relapsing nudge any support to shame her to seek recovery?"

Just bumping this part from yesterday.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I reiterate from my previous post.

" Can some version of exposure break up a year plus long living together affair?

Would pointing out how she abandoned her son since relapsing nudge any support to shame her to seek recovery?"

Just bumping this part from yesterday.

LTL

15 months ago, which was about 3 months after my Wife moved out with no notice, i made an appointment with our former MC, whom we had seen together for 6 months with weekly sessions at the beginning of 2010.

At the end of my venting and catching up on details session, the MC asked me, "What,Was My Agenda?" Why was i back seeking IC now?

I replied that i wanted to learn how my Wife and i could learn to communicate and become friendlier towards each other.

Whatever i have tried, she is so far in withdrawal, that even the nice gestures and comments i had made seemingly get dismissed or negatively interpreted.

How can that wall ever be breached?

By the way, me and my Son had a wonderful time visiting his Grandma and Grandpa at their lake home over Labor Day weekend and had fun taking boat rides, the young cousins going tubing and fishing from the pier.

My mind still thought of my Wife with every circumstance and how i miss her in our lives.

4 years ago, stuff she said on our drive home from there instigated our very 1st significant argument discussion, where she leveled me with how dissatisfied she felt in our marriage. It was 3 weeks later that i discovered her love letters with her 1st affair partner and my life has been filled with melancholy and sadness ever since, with finally a glimmer of more positive attitude and actions starting to evolve.

But, i still feel so empty inside, by that 1st argument revealing how much she felt let down by me. I wish i knew better when it would have made a difference.

BH stated that there are plenty of examples of marriages turning around after 4 years. So, what actions do i need to take still, even while she doesn't contact our own Son?

Do i just allow her self imposed No Contact linger till she feels the pain of missing our Son?

I do also fully realize that her current desire to still enjoy a bar-hopping lifestyle with new drinking buddies and the current live-in POSOM would need to be ended first and foremost.

What can i do to "Raise The Bottom" that she needs to hit?

LTL
Last night while i was at the library with S-10 with him doing homework and playing online games and me typing a proposal for a contracting estimate, i noticed when we left at closing time that my WW had texted me several times and left a voice mail message. She had a new different phone number too.

Her last attempt to contact me was June 4th,, to my old dead e-mail address that i don't use anymore due to spam and i couldn't open it due to needing password reset, so i didn't even see that message till the end of July.

She contacted last night, panicking about maybe not meeting criteria to keep health insurance at her bus driving job due to Obamacare requirements.

Here is what she texted:

Texts Quote:
I need to talk to u asap tomorrow if possible in regards to medical coverage. With obama crap my insurance changing. Are u available to help me figure t his out tomorrow between 930 and 12.

I need to understand what I need to do to make sure u guys covered but what I'm reading makes look like its iffy. But that could b me not understanding fully

I'm doing mega hours this year to make sure we all covered but it going according to annual income that I don't think ill meet.

But I have to. Least the one thing I can do for u guys but I'm not understanding this crap

Please let me know if u have time to help me understand th right asap
End Text Quotes:

Now, i did not respond at all. We are still legally married, but she had current POSOM move in her apartment about 1 year ago and they temporarily split up supposedly in mid February, the weekend following Valentines Day. He never moved out and they obviously worked that out at that time.

She had filed for Divorce when she moved out February 15th, 2012, but i never got served so Divorce proceedings were Dismissed September, 2012.

Do i let her figure out her family health care coverage issues on her own or do i meet or talk with her?

Me and my S-10 are still covered under that policy.

Is this an opportunity to rekindle any form of friendly contact?

Her last message to me after i was keeping hers sister updated about our S-10 and visited my M-I-L's grave marker told me to, "F**k Off" back on July 4th of this year.

Today, it has been 219 Days since the last time she spoke with our Son and 241 Days since her last successful true visit with him.

Now, this reaching out for help for her to understand her insurance coverage.

Any advice is welcome.

As far as i know, she still goes out drinking on the weekends, so still is in relapse mode, and that is a deal breaker to even consider any R until that and other things occur.

LTL
If it didn't involve your's and son's health insurance, I would say ignore her. But, it would probably benefit you to make sure that your insurance is continued. And bonus points for being a helpful guy.

I'm not sure about this one.
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
If it didn't involve your's and son's health insurance, I would say ignore her. But, it would probably benefit you to make sure that your insurance is continued. And bonus points for being a helpful guy.

I'm not sure about this one.

Thank you for responding RQ.

I was considering replying that i know she can handle it on her own with assistance through her Human Resources Department and that things will work out if she does what i know she is capable of.

I wonder if i should add that i am not currently the one she has chosen to help her out in her family related decisions. (She fired me from that job and responsibility) I also consider adding in that meeting with her in person is too painful because of the choices she has made, but that's too much blame, so i won't unless others can suggest a more tactful way of stating that.

The mean resentful part that i won't say, but think, is that she should get that advice from one of her POSOM affair partners since she feels they are better than her own husband and father of our son. Aghhh!!!

I just don't want to react emotionally.

LTL
Respond with this first
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
i know she can handle it on her own with assistance through her Human Resources Department and that things will work out if she does what i know she is capable of.


Then if she wants to meet in person, respond with this "meeting with her in person is too painful because of the choices you have made"
It is your child's healthcare at stake.
It could mean the difference in your child receiving needed treatment when he needs it most. Don't risk having ww mess it up! For this, suck it up and make sure you and kids are properly ensured.
I'd kiss anybody's ......feet......rather than take a chane with my dd access to medical care.
Don't play games with healthcare. Deal with her for this issue, then back to her self-imposed Plan B if she isn't going to quit drinking.

How can she be an alcoholic bus driver BTW?
Originally Posted by mijunleigh
Don't play games with healthcare. Deal with her for this issue, then back to her self-imposed Plan B if she isn't going to quit drinking.

How can she be an alcoholic bus driver BTW?

She goes out after work for 3-4 hours on some work days and also on Friday and Saturday nights, plus in the past when i used to drive by her local pub of choice, i have seen her vehicle in the parking lot around noon.

Alcoholism isn't as much about how often you drink, or if you have to drink during work hours, but how it impacts your life and your thinking once the cycle begins, especially for someone who relapses after about 10 years in AA with complete sobriety.

I still attend multiple meetings every week even after 19 1/2 years since i became sober.

LTL
As someone who has never known anyone who went to AA, I guess the point is to keep going so you don't relapse?
Originally Posted by karmasrose
As someone who has never known anyone who went to AA, I guess the point is to keep going so you don't relapse?

That would be a primary reason, plus you have the blessing and frequent opportunities to pass on your own experiences, strength and hope to those that haven't ever been able to feel so understood before. I learn more and build up my desire for clean living by helping others, both through my good times and not so good times by sharing with others on how to live life on lifes terms.

Plus, you make good similar minded friends and look forward to seeing them weekly, or at sponsored events.

LTL
Friday, 9-27 was the 4th anniversary of D-Day, when i discovered her love notes with her 1st POSOM.

I was getting coffee at a gas station with my back to the door and when i got done with it, i noticed my W walking away from the cash register. I know she had to recognize me, but she completely ignored that i was there. That gas station is not close to where either of us live.

That's the 1st time I've seen her since February 18th of this year.

I was too chicken to follow her outside to make contact since i am impossible to not recognize, even from the back. I figured it would be very uncomfortable, but i regret not talking to her, even, or especially if her current POSOM was outside in her vehicle.

I will never understand the extreme hatred she has towards me for trying to continue Plan A style stuff when she was still here. I really was very nice and supportive, but now see that i was only a doormat.

LTL
Well, i responded on Monday, which was 5 1/2 days after her initial contact. I didn't want to ignore her request, yet didn't feel that an immediate reply, like jumping just because she snapped her fingers, plus she sent another text the previous evening, which to me, was starting to sound ticked off and i don't want negative emotions to escalate.

Here is her texts from Sunday night:
1) I need to talk to u now

2) please

3) U will be seeing me soon. U can't keep ignoring me.

.

The 1st 2 tugged at my heartstrings, so i am obviously not detached enough..... Sigh!!!

Here is my reply:

Wife's Name,

I could meet you either on Wednesday or Friday. Have you discussed the health insurance options with your Human Resources Department yet? You should give yourself more credit than you ever did. You will know how to figure it out, but i will help you out the best that i can.

I hesitated to reply sooner, because i am extremely concerned about how you have reacted towards me, like the most recent example when you sent me that message on May 4th that told me to F**k Off, after i sent your sister a very nice update about me taking S-10's Name to visit his Grandmothers memorial site before noon that day and teaching him about the nice things she used to want to do for him and Praying for her.

It continues to hurt to feel so hated by the one person that i thought would always be my best friend and partner for life.

You have not been the same loving and kind wife or mother ever since you relapsed and it continues to tear me apart to feel so hated by someone i loved so much, because i tried to correct my errors on my side and hold our family together.

I still Pray for you everyday, hoping that you someday see what your drinking lifestyle has done and that you realize how much you were loved and cared for. You previously had more than you could have ever asked, dreamed or Prayed for, but that wasn't enough once you relapsed. There is a path out of this destructive behavior. I hope you see that and feel i would still be there for you to help and be supportive if you choose to get sober ever again.

But, while you continue to not care about your own husband and son, i don't want to be the subject of your hateful comments any longer.

My Name

.

On another off track side note, our S-10 passed his test for Green Belt in his karate class on Saturday afternoon.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Well, i responded on Monday, which was 5 1/2 days after her initial contact. I didn't want to ignore her request, yet didn't feel that an immediate reply, like jumping just because she snapped her fingers, plus she sent another text the previous evening, which to me, was starting to sound ticked off and i don't want negative emotions to escalate.

Here is her texts from Sunday night:
1) I need to talk to u now

2) please

3) U will be seeing me soon. U can't keep ignoring me.

.

The 1st 2 tugged at my heartstrings, so i am obviously not detached enough..... Sigh!!!

Here is my reply:

Wife's Name,

I could meet you either on Wednesday or Friday. Have you discussed the health insurance options with your Human Resources Department yet? You should give yourself more credit than you ever did. You will know how to figure it out, but i will help you out the best that i can.

I hesitated to reply sooner, because i am extremely concerned about how you have reacted towards me, like the most recent example when you sent me that message on May 4th that told me to F**k Off, after i sent your sister a very nice update about me taking S-10's Name to visit his Grandmothers memorial site before noon that day and teaching him about the nice things she used to want to do for him and Praying for her.

It continues to hurt to feel so hated by the one person that i thought would always be my best friend and partner for life.

You have not been the same loving and kind wife or mother ever since you relapsed and it continues to tear me apart to feel so hated by someone i loved so much, because i tried to correct my errors on my side and hold our family together.

I still Pray for you everyday, hoping that you someday see what your drinking lifestyle has done and that you realize how much you were loved and cared for. You previously had more than you could have ever asked, dreamed or Prayed for, but that wasn't enough once you relapsed. There is a path out of this destructive behavior. I hope you see that and feel i would still be there for you to help and be supportive if you choose to get sober ever again.

But, while you continue to not care about your own husband and son, i don't want to be the subject of your hateful comments any longer.

My Name

.

On another off track side note, our S-10 passed his test for Green Belt in his karate class on Saturday afternoon.

LTL

Sounds a bit preachy.

What you said is well deserved, but not likely to draw her closer or promote an eventual recovery. She expects to be shamed when she sees you. You did not disappoint.

LTL, you are putting the "survive" in SAA. I admire you. Your son is very fortunate to have such a steadfast and caring Dad!
There a lot of DJs in that letter and it's too long. You need to be short and sweet.
1st & 3rd paragraph is unnecessary and full of lovebusters. She knows what she said she said it! She knows she doing wrong and doesn't need your help pointing it out.


Wife's Name,

I could meet you either on Wednesday or Friday. Have you discussed the health insurance options with your Human Resources Department yet? You should give yourself more credit than you ever did. You will know how to figure it out, but i will help you out the best that i can.

It continues to hurt to feel so hated by the one person that i thought would always be my best friend and partner for life. S10 got his green belt and I am so proud of him. Maybe sometime if your free we can meet for coffee or lunch and discuss this she of insurance. Take care.

I tried to edit your letter but not good with the options on the forums. In short you want to create opportunities to deposit love units and show her your changes not by saying it but demonstrating them. Have you read lovebusters?
Thank you, ICGB and TD.

Yeah, i feel the DJ's in my written words that you pointed out and see it being preachy too.

I felt, even though i should have chosen better words to express myself, that the last paragragh was necessary to place a boundary. I need to make sure she knows i will no longer be her punching bag.

Another point that sounded confusing the way i wrote it, was about Being There For Her. My intent was specifically meant for the possibility that she ever wants to try going back to AA and getting sober again.

They say a person has to Hit Their Bottom to feel enough desire to want to try to get sober, so i was trying to Raise The Level Of Her Bottom.

I feel that most of my other interactions with her were amicable and supportive. That hasn't worked, so i am not rolling over any longer. I don't think i would have put up with this treatment when we first dated. I feel i lost my assertive portion of my personality and became her doormat.

Regardless, i will walk away from her hateful diatribes from now on.

Also, my core beliefs about alcoholism does not allow for me to just stand by without pointing out the changes from when she was a sober mom and wife.

Even though i stick my neck out, probably being the only one she hears from about the ramifications of what her drinking has done to her life, someday IF she ever chooses to get sober, she may see that i wasn't one of the cheerleaders promoting her drinking lifestyle.

My grey line is, when is The Truth a DJ?

Well, she has not replied back now, and based on Text # 3, i wonder what she was implying about, I Will C U Soon.....

LTL
I wouldn't worry about being disrespectful.
The fact is she's a drunk and based on your info, an unfit parent.

Children of alcoholics are messed up FOR LIFE.
I know I was married to one
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I wouldn't worry about being disrespectful.
The fact is she's a drunk and based on your info, an unfit parent.

Children of alcoholics are messed up FOR LIFE.
I know I was married to one


Whoa!

Nooo

If we stipulate that DJ are OK when we think our souse deserves them, civility in marriage is lost. Suppose this M is unrecoverable, what skills should LTL be refining to have great MB relationships in the future?

Civility is easy when we are feeling the love. The challenge is to stop LB when we are feeling righteous and our spouse is LB us.
Originally Posted by ItCanGetBetter
[quote=Jedi_Knight]

Civility is easy when we are feeling the love. The challenge is to stop LB when we are feeling righteous and our spouse is LB us.

Please assist me in learning how to not have DJ's when i interact with my W in the future.

I think the Alcoholic Fog is similar to the Affair Fog.

She has become an Alien in both aspects. This lifestyle goes SO contradictory to her stated and written beliefs from before she relapsed and started cheating.

Do i do an exposure to her contacts that might have any influence about her parenting since she began drinking?

Do i just ignore the changes and never point out what a good mom she was prior to relapsing?

Do i just continue the Going Dark and not go out of my way to keep her updated on our S-10?

Currently, i am just trying to hold my life, finances, and sons life together with joy and love. I rarely feel any joy, but i am glad my Son does, so that brings me it's own reward.

LTL
First step buy Lovebusters by Dr. Harley and read it.
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
First step buy Lovebusters by Dr. Harley and read it.

Thanks TD. I did order Lovebusters and will look forward to reading it and learning from it.

LTL
So, is there a method to redirect the Serial Cheaters moral compass?

With my W, i still firmly believe that we truly had a loving relationship in both our hearts for the 1st 7-8 years.

Then, due to pizz-poor boundaries during a time of severe emotional strife and depression created during the 2 1/2 month hospitalization and seeming recovery and then sudden unexpected death of her Mom, that she allowed all of her EN's to be met by the 1st OM, and also shot down any attempts i made at meeting here EN's, that she rewrote our marital history to totally find me unacceptable to reconsider.

Her current OM moved in with her around 1 year ago. She "seems" to be as infatuated with him as she ever was with me previously, which also could be said about the previous 2 OM, but those never evolved into living together and fizzled out naturally.

Also, her cheating coincided with when she relapsed to alcohol after about 8 years of steady sobriety. She has abandoned, for all purposes, our beautiful young son now, since his 9th birthday through him now being several months shy of his 11th birthday.

She had already moved out to carry on with OM2 prior to hooking up with this current OM3. There was also an OW one night drunken ONS that occurred after D-day1 just prior to beginning with OM2, who also had been OW's long term on again, off again BF for the previous 15 years.

Serial cheater, or multiple monogamous affairs? She truly was a good Wife and Mom prior to the relapse and affairs starting.

Can her moral compass be rediscovered with any help, such as a multi-affair exposure this late in the game?

LTL
On the serial cheaters thread in one of the clips (I can't remember which one off hand) Dr. Harley says that serial cheaters can be faithful, but they must follow extra extraordinary precautions.

Sometimes changing careers and/or being with the spouse 24 hours a day.

Did you listen to all the clips?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
On the serial cheaters thread in one of the clips (I can't remember which one off hand) Dr. Harley says that serial cheaters can be faithful, but they must follow extra extraordinary precautions.

Sometimes changing careers and/or being with the spouse 24 hours a day.

Did you listen to all the clips?

Remember, she moved out 20 months ago and is living with OM3 currently, so the spending all of our time together is not going to currently happen.

Marital Bliss earlier commented on many couples reconciling after 4 year long affairs earlier in this thread.

I am considering a widespread exposure to cover the previous affairs to be sent to this current OM's connections.

Would that potentially pull the rug out and reveal their relationship is only as fragile as the previous affairs?

Also, as a direct result of her current relationship, alongside with her drinking relapse, she has barely had any contact with our son.

I am thinking that exposing that reality might "Raise The Bottom" that she needs to hit to consider becoming sober again.

I am wondering about getting a GPS to find out who his lawn cutting customers are and thinking to hit them as contacts as well. His sister and b-i-l own the lawn cutting and snow plowing business and may not appreciate their customers finding out that lawn boy is involved in wrecking a family and influential in my sons mother not being involved with him at all.

No, i have not listened to the radio links. I will try to listen to them over this weekend though. There were a lot of them in that Serial Cheater thread.

I promise that i will do it though.

LTL
Hi LTL,

I posted to you in the serial cheating thread so will repost here:

I wouldn't bother. It sounds like your WW isn't willing to help herself and is perfectly fine living this way. Maybe it is sexist, but as a woman and a mother...for a mother to abandon her children..she has to be a pretty messed up person IMO. Then you also have the issue of alcohol. I would walk away.

That she isn't around your son, is a blessing at this point. Why would you want your boy around her given the circumstances?
Originally Posted by black_raven
Hi LTL,

I posted to you in the serial cheating thread so will repost here:

I wouldn't bother. It sounds like your WW isn't willing to help herself and is perfectly fine living this way. Maybe it is sexist, but as a woman and a mother...for a mother to abandon her children..she has to be a pretty messed up person IMO. Then you also have the issue of alcohol. I would walk away.

That she isn't around your son, is a blessing at this point. Why would you want your boy around her given the circumstances?

Originally Posted By: black_raven Hi LTL,

I wouldn't bother. It sounds like your WW isn't willing to help herself and is perfectly fine living this way. Maybe it is sexist, but as a woman and a mother...for a mother to abandon her children..she has to be a pretty messed up person IMO. Then you also have the issue of alcohol. I would walk away.

Thank you BR.

That does seem to be the prevalent consensus.....

Yet, i still have my heart invested totally in my family, which used to include a beautiful soul as my Wife.

I didn't know about exposure early on.

I tried to let go. I still love the person she was when we married each other.

I want to be there for her to have someone to reach out to if she can be snapped back into her former reality.

I am probably being unrealistic. But, if there remains even one stone unturned that i haven't done to do all i could have done, even if it does not achieve the desired goal, then i would not have done all i could have done.

I am continuing being a great single parent and have slightly restored my business and might get out of foreclosure, so i am doing the positive steps for my life. I want her to see those improvements if she ever accepts that she has an alcohol problem, which we say in AA, is a "Thinking Disease", not just a drinking disease.

I need to remain patient, but can i raise the bottom she needs to hit?

I don't want her around our S-10 under the current circumstances.

That's primarily why i have continued to let The Sleeping Dog scenario play out as it has so far. Holiday seasons are upon us and i feel she will want that to change for her to get her Mommy Fix.

I would like to intervene before that occurs.


LTL
Stop moving!!! LOL laugh

Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I need to remain patient, but can i raise the bottom she needs to hit?

Not really. If you want to expose her affairs, that's fine (I still would and file for D) but don't count on that leading to reconciliation. I also hope you do not waste years of your life holding onto hope...that's what I read in your words.

Sorry, but I don't think your WW is coming back. But if she did, would you really want to reconcile after she has gone through X other men? I understand you miss the life you had with her (and her) but don't let loneliness and hope keep you in limbo hell. Really think about what you will have to eat and ACCEPT to take her back...and if you can REALLY live with it...not to mention all the extra, extra EPs you would have to deal with.

MB is not about marriage at all costs. Prayers to you.

Hi again Black Raven,

I just wanted to follow up regarding the promise i made to listen to all of the MB Radio links in the Serial Cheater thread.

I just now completed that.

Next, i am off to take my S-10 to a Halloween Costume Party at his karate training facility. It's put on each month and technically called, Parents Night Out, which triggers me about not having my W to share the evening with, but this is the 1st time I'm taking my Son to it and he is looking forward to it.

Last night, we went on a Haunted Trails Hike and the evening prior, we attended his Scout Pack Halloween Costume Party meeting.

So, after listening to all of the radio segments, i found broad general similarities, yet nothing specifically close enough to key into for my particular situation, but it did reinforce the general theme of Extra Extra-Ordinary Precautions needed in the future.

I have not come to a conclusion whether my W fits into the Category 1 version or the Category 2 version of the Type of multi-affair individual she has become.

Do you have any further questions to probe my understanding of the situation?

LTL
My WW texted me today to see if there still was a Noon meeting this afternoon and to see which ones are on the schedule for this evening too.

I replied with the times and locations and stated i was proud that she was trying to get back to AA again.

Weird???

It was almost 1 year ago exactly that she tried getting back to AA, at that time for just one meeting.

The anniversary of her mom's death is February 7th and our S-10's 11th Birthday is on February 10th.

It was February 18th last year that she went back that one time.

LTL
Yea, like a late new year resolution.
I would pray that God convicts her and she turns her heart and desires away from the alcohol and matters of the flesh to the Word of God
Thanks Jedi,

I offered a minor encouragement for her seeking out an AA meeting and for the time being, that is where i will leave things.

She did state that she contacted a female from the program who is a mutual family friend. That woman does have a sound 20 year program and Godly devotion towards life and for the most part, would be a good resource for my W to use, if she Follows The Suggestions and makes Sobriety her number one priority in her life once again.

She also said that she was too much of a mess to see our son yet, although i didn't bring that up.

I m unsure at this point if that is a selfish choice, or a self realization that she knows contact with him in the initial stages of seeking alcohol recovery would be detrimental to him at this time.

I'm not going to waste time wondering about it. Let's just see where this goes and if sobriety takes root. She said she is going to be reading the Big Book tonight, but she said that last year too.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I'm not going to waste time wondering about it. Let's just see where this goes and if sobriety takes root. She said she is going to be reading the Big Book tonight, but she said that last year too.

Good that you aren't going to be wondering what your WW is doing. Words are easy, it is actions that count. If she changes for real, you will easily see the difference.
Originally Posted by BlairBluefin
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I'm not going to waste time wondering about it. Let's just see where this goes and if sobriety takes root. She said she is going to be reading the Big Book tonight, but she said that last year too.

Good that you aren't going to be wondering what your WW is doing. Words are easy, it is actions that count. If she changes for real, you will easily see the difference.

Exactly!!!

I couldn't help myself having a few thoughts cross my mind immediately, but I've been down that path too many times in the past.

For myself, no further contact forthcoming from me. If she contacts me, any replies will just be supportive towards striving for sobriety, as if she were anyone else that reached out at a meeting to me.

Let's see if my emotional state remains calm after all this time getting used to detaching.

LTL
Can you refresh my memory...

Do you have a legal custody of your son now?
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Can you refresh my memory...

Do you have a legal custody of your son now?

No, not legally.

In the past 23 1/2 months since she moved out, she has followed through with picking him up for a visit only 5 times. Zero times since last January 27th.

I have filed for CS through our State Department Of Human Services as of the beginning of this past November, but only heard back from them last week.

If, i went to court, the Judge would surely offer her more opportunities to visit on a fixed schedule, which "Could Have" meant having our S-10 exposed to her current live in affair partner and the other circle of new friends who all encouraged a bar-hopping lifestyle. He is safer with me 100% of the time while she is still in relapse mode.

Another fact to bring you up to date is that she filed for D prior to moving out on February 15th of 2012, but i never got served and the D complaint was Dismissed in late September, 2012 and there is no current actions pending.

LTL
I encourage you to file for emergency custody.
I think Dr Harley would too
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I encourage you to file for emergency custody.
I think Dr Harley would too

I know that most, if not all attorneys would agree with your sentiments, yet except for it to be legally binding, considering how things have gone to date, i only view an enforceable judgment to have more downsides than upsides.

When she has had our S-10, 9 at the time, over for a visit to her apartment, i learned that the OM was present, so i made future visitations conditional upon him not being anywhere around while my S-10 was there.

That surely will create LB'ers between them when and if she ever has our S-10 stay overnight because the OM will have to find another place to stay overnight.

Maybe my thinking is flawed, so please enlighten me if you still see it differently.

LTL
Yes, I think it is flawed.
The fact is, without legal custody you dont have the right to tell her how to do anything.

She can legally pick him up from school and take him to her apt and if you dont like it, thats tough...

And she might try doing that when child support contacts her so you better get the boy secured quickly
And at this point, I wouldnt worry about LB between her and OM or anything else like that...instead, focus on the health and welfare of your child.

You need to get custody so that he can be protected from her unsafe behaviors.

You can request that she only have supervised visitation and the attorney can help you get that so you dont have to worry about her taking him to her appt
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
She can legally pick him up from school and take him to her apt and if you dont like it, thats tough...

Jedi is right on this one. Your WW could easily remove your son from school any time.
Here is the advice Dr Harley wrote to me; I think the advice would be good in your situation too:

Dear Jedi Knight,

I understand how you want your children to have a reasonably friendly relationship with their mother. But under the circumstances, I�d suggest that instead, you create a wall of protection around your children as long as possible because of your wife�s thoroughly uncaring behavior toward them. Let them know the full truth about her lack of care for them because of her love for another man. Don�t embellish the story, just give them the facts. Sooner or later she will probably try to restore her relationship with them through you, perhaps in the hope that she would receive some kind of financial support from you or the state if she were to have partial custody. But I would let them know that not every mother loves or knows how to care for her children. Sadly, their mother is probably one of these people. Plan B is probably the best way to create that wall of protection.

Just speculating, but people often choose mates that fit their self-concept. In other words, a person who doesn�t think much of themselves (usually with evidence to support their conclusion), pick someone who is similarly unprepared for making a contribution in life. When they marry someone who is capable, they feel very uncomfortable around that person, in spite of the care that they provide. Your wife may have chosen a man who is similarly unprepared for life because she feels comfortable around him. I recall counseling a woman who was married to a very famous surgeon. She had an affair with a man who gave blood for a living, and moved into his 17-foot trailer. He was someone who she could relate to, unlike her very successful husband. In spite of his willingness to make changes in his career to accommodate her needs, she never felt comfortable around him.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley
Thank you for sharing your response letter from Dr. Harley Jedi.

As far as the conversations aspect with my Son, i most definitely have been truthful about the circumstances that my W chose to place herself in, along with the uncontrollable urge and obsession to prioritize alcohol and affair partners over a more mature and responsible lifestyle.

I have told him that his Mommy does love him, but is not capable of showing that due to being compelled to choose a drinking environment and new friends who support that destructive lifestyle.

He is acutely aware that his mom's drinking problem and choice of acquaintances have nothing to do with him.

LTL
As the new title states, it just seems so unexpected for her to finally Unblock me from her FB page and actually follow through with a Friend Request Invitation.

As i was taking my S-10, (He will be S-11 Tomorrow), to the movie theater to see the new Lego Movie, a notification came through with that request. Also, i had my phone volume turned off for the movie and she called and left a VM message

The message just said, "Hey, it's me. If you get a chance can you give me a call back tonight. I'll be home all night."

Remember, she contacted me 11 days ago requesting information to find out if and when any AA meetings were at for that particular day. I texted her several locations and times and heard nothing since.

Should i respond?

If so, i was thinking of saying;
I was at the movies with our S-10 and just now noticed your message.
Wife, if you are still currently involved in your current affair, i do not feel it would be considerate for you and i to be FB friends as it would still be rubbing your affair in my face. If you have any desire to ever have me have any loving feelings for you, this would wipe them out. In addition, i would need to know if you are following through with AA for recovering from your alcoholic lifestyle."
End

As a side note, this past Friday, 2 days ago was the 5th anniversary of her Mother passing away. I sent a private FB message to her 2 sisters that day expressing my sympathies for the feelings they may have for that date. The youngest sister who lived in my home for 2 years after the Moms death actually responded with a very thoughtful thank you message for my sentiments. The other sister just replied with a one word, "Hey."

So, does my potential reply seem appropriate?

One final point. Today marks 378 Days since the last time she had a visit with our Son.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
The message just said, "Hey, it's me. If you get a chance can you give me a call back tonight. I'll be home all night."

I would not respond at all and decline the fb request. If she wanted to talk to you about anything serious then she should have said why she wants you to call. ^^^This is lazy and crap IMO. If that's the best she can do, I would ignore her vs taking the bait to engage in goodness knows what sort of conversation.
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
The message just said, "Hey, it's me. If you get a chance can you give me a call back tonight. I'll be home all night."

I would not respond at all and decline the fb request. If she wanted to talk to you about anything serious then she should have said why she wants you to call. ^^^This is lazy and crap IMO. If that's the best she can do, I would ignore her vs taking the bait to engage in goodness knows what sort of conversation.

I have not responded with a phone conversation since last year February. All replies were via e-mail, even to her VM messages or texts.

I was feeling that this may be a good time to set that boundary in writing about wanting No Contact and Friendship whilst she is involved in an affair.

Due to not finding and studying this forum until 1 1/4 years after she moved out, which happened 2 1/2 years after D-Day, i never had the knowledge or opportunity to do anything similar to a Plan B letter.

LTL
I didn't realize you never gave her a Plan B letter. But you really aren't in Plan B either since you gave her info about the AA meetings and there is contact. I think I'd send something like this:

Wife, if you are still involved in your affair with OM (insert name) or are dating other men, I have no desire to communicate with you.

I'd leave it at that and see if she offers up anything. You said your son told you OM was there during his last visit so I wouldn't be expecting him to be out of the picture.
That visit when my Son was over at her place occurred in September, 2012.

Her and the current Affair Partner were still involved ad of the end of this January 2014 as far ad i can tell.

LTL
Gotcha

At most, I would only send what I previously suggested if you want to make it clear not to contact you if she is still involved with OM...or any other man. Or ignore.
I'm in no hurry to reply.

It's a rule i made for myself to not jump through her hoops and i wait at least 24 hours so i can respond instead of react.

I really appreciate that you have come to post on my situation once again. I recall the last assistance about the types of WW's.

LTL
Okay, i have still not responded yet, partly because my phone was off last night when i took my now S-11 to see The Lego Movie, but also because i would have probably responded with too much emotion.

At 5:30 this morning, WW sent me the following e-mail:
I understandably assuming not a good idea I have lunch with S-11 at school. He will prefer to see me in private and not around all his friends will prob question and wonder. Please tell him happy bday and that I do love him very much. I will b working most the day as I am subbing midday route and already have a after school field trip. I wish you both a wonderful day.
Wife's Name
End

Additionally, the FB Friend Request Invitation she made last night has disappeared as of this morning too. So i guess that because i didn't reply immediately that is her way of telling me to telling me she changed her fickle mind.

But, at least in writing, she wished both S-11 and me a wonderful day at the end of her e-mail.

I'm still contemplating a response stating the boundary regarding No Contact as long as she is involved in any affair.

Here is another draft i made early this morning, but definitely have not sent till i get multiple outside unbiased opinions.

Wife's Name,

I was at the movies with S-11 last night and had my phone turned off and just now noticed your message.

Wife's Name, if you are still involved in your current affair, i do not feel it would be considerate for you and i to be friends as it would still be rubbing your current affair in my face and causing me further pain. I do not deserve any more abuse like that, especially after all of the loving efforts i put in to hold our family together and improve our marriage.

When you decide to end your affair, the possibility of renewing our friendship may still be available.

If you have any desire at all to ever have me have any loving feelings for you, this would wipe them out. In addition, i would need to know if you are following through with AA for recovering from your alcoholic lifestyle since your behavior and choices since you relapsed has only lead to hurting our S-11 and your Husband more than you could ever imagine.

But, If you are serious about recovering from alcoholism, for that reason i would be enthusiastically willing to communicate with you as much as needed to help you out and be supportive for you.

Nothing else in this world would mean so much to me than for my Wife to once again get Sober and become the mature, caring and responsible person you were before you relapsed you used to be a very good Wife and Mother.

It is the one single most important Prayer i have every single day. You meant more to me every single day of my life than you will ever know, although you did overwhelmingly feel that prior to relapsing.

My Name
End

LTL
I suggest you email this to Dr Harley and ask for his opinion
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I suggest you email this to Dr Harley and ask for his opinion

Good idea Jedi.

How much background information should i include?

I could summarize the entire past 5 years since my WW's Mother passed away, which is when the 1st affair took off.

I could Bullet Point the significant events.

Should i also include my W's childhood history, which included both parents addictions, her Moms SIDS death of a 1 1/2 year older sister to my W that was never gotten over, the CSA (Childhood Sexual Abuse) my W endured between ages 4-5 at the hands of her female babysitter, the continued shuffling to one family to another due to her Moms addictions to Crack and Alcohol, the Divorce between her parents when my W was just 1 years old, along with sequence of the multiple affairs?

How much information is enough and what is too much?

Is it all relevant to todays circumstances?

I REALLY appreciate your support and participation, along with the several others who have been here for me.

God Bless You All,

LTL
LTL,if it was me I would include all the information I can about the situation. I would also ask to be a caller as well. Joyce is real good at "trimming the fat" on emails so don't worry about length. I am looking forward to hearing your questions and hopefully your call on the show. Do you listen to the show at all on your phone?

Originally Posted by TranquilDark
LTL,if it was me I would include all the information I can about the situation. I would also ask to be a caller as well. Joyce is real good at "trimming the fat" on emails so don't worry about length. I am looking forward to hearing your questions and hopefully your call on the show. Do you listen to the show at all on your phone?

Thank You Very Much TD for once again chiming in with your thoughts regarding my situation. Your previous input was taken in wholeheartedly.

Okay, i will go to the library later today to use a computer and draft an e-mail and probably post a copy of it here to see if i should add/delete some points.

This is making me nervous, because it goes against my character to not reply cordially to Anyone, let alone my Wife, who i still hang onto such strong hope for her, regardless of how much i have attempted to detach from the current drinking and cheating wayward version she has become.

Like Mommy Of 8 is going through those feelings about her WH, i still have those same feelings for who my Wife used to be and the dreams of our families future together.

LTL
P.S.

I do listen to the MB Radio show 2-4 times per week, along with reading every single post on the entire site daily.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I'm in no hurry to reply.

It's a rule i made for myself to not jump through her hoops and i wait at least 24 hours so i can respond instead of react.

I really appreciate that you have come to post on my situation once again. I recall the last assistance about the types of WW's.

LTL

You're welcome. I don't have time to respond to your morning update but I wouldn't send the email as is. It is a little too sappy IMO. Back later...
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I'm in no hurry to reply.

It's a rule i made for myself to not jump through her hoops and i wait at least 24 hours so i can respond instead of react.

I really appreciate that you have come to post on my situation once again. I recall the last assistance about the types of WW's.

LTL

You're welcome. I don't have time to respond to your morning update but I wouldn't send the email as is. It is a little too sappy IMO. Back later...

But i always have been sappy, lol!!!

Okay, I'll continue waiting.

Thank You BR.

LTL
Now i just received a text from her.

Quote:
I would like to meet u tomorrow at school for lunch for S-11's bday. Does that work for u and S-11?
End Quoted Text

LTL
That depends what your plan is, are you in Plan A or B? Do you have a custody order in order? Also, I would ask your son how he feels about it as well.
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
That depends what your plan is, are you in Plan A or B? Do you have a custody order in order? Also, I would ask your son how he feels about it as well.

I started on this forum nearly 4 years after D-Day, which was 1 year and 5 months after she moved out and had a live in POSOM for about 9 months at that point, which was last July.

Prior to that, i did as much Plan A without knowing about it as i could, but continued trying to do nice and loving actions, regardless of her accepting it or not.

I have 100% custody of our son by default, with no court proceedings and order

I agreed with her Sister to keep her updated on things about her nephew, our Son and also sent updates to my WW each month, regardless if she requested them or did not reply. I started doing that more after my WW and POSOM temporarily broke up last February 2013, the weekend after Valentines Day.

After i took my Son to visit his Grandma's grave memorial last May 4th, the SIL forwarded my text to my WW and she sent me a text telling me to F### Off. (Her car was at the bar at 11:30 am, which is 1 block away from the cemetary, but i didn't throw that in her face)

From that date on, i stopped making any contact with her and only heard from her in September 2013 when she wanted help understanding her family heath care coverage. Then again, a feeble attempt to contact our Son for Christmas, although she had not picked him up or spoke to him since last January 2013. (She said she had too much anxiety after POSOM broke up with her and couldn't deal with our Son)

I am concerned for our Son that if she comes back into his life and falls off the face of the earth again, that it will harm him further. He had previous panic attacks due to srparation anxiety after D-Day and after she moved out.

LTL
Personally I would decline the offer. Her showing up at his school for lunch with no time for him to get his head around the idea doesn't feel good.

She's copping out by coming to the school instead of meeting him in a more intimate setting. This feel too abrupt.

My opinion.
Originally Posted by zibbles
Personally I would decline the offer. Her showing up at his school for lunch with no time for him to get his head around the idea doesn't feel good.

She's copping out by coming to the school instead of meeting him in a more intimate setting. This feel too abrupt.

My opinion.

Prior to her 10:00 am text that you just read, she sent an e-mail at 5:30 am stating how awkward that would be for our S-11 to meet him at the lunchroom in front of his friends.

Quote:
I understandably assuming not a good idea I have lunch with S-11 at school. He will prefer to see me in private and not around all his friends will prob question and wonder. Please tell him happy bday and that I do love him very much. I will b working most the day as I am subbing midday route and already have a after school field trip. I wish you both a wonderful day.
End Quoted E-Mail

So i know she realizes that too. I think she is getting advice from others to contact me by e-mail, cell phone VM, and by text to show others i am being unresponsive to her requests, finally, to visit our Son.

I will reply later this afternoon.

LTL
LTL,

Stop saying that you have 100% custody of your son.
You don't.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
LTL,

Stop saying that you have 100% custody of your son.
You don't.

I stated there was no court order.

In the past 2 full years, he has been with me all but approximately 30 hours.

In the past 379 days, he has been with me 100% of the time.

If and when it eventually goes to court for visitation, the time split will be significantly less with me than it is currently.

I don't feel that debating the symantics of the legality versus the reality serves any purpose at this time, although i do agree that she could legally "Kidnap" our son at any time without repercussions.

LTL
Why dont you focus on ensuring that you have legal custody and see an attorney?

EDIT: I believe that Dr Harley would also encourage you to see an attorney and get custody.
Today was her birthday.

For several different time periods throughout my day, i tossed around the thought of sending her a Happy Birthday message.

But, what held my spontaneous urges in check was being completely cognizant of the fact that it has now been 477 days since she last picked up our son for a visit and has not even made an attempt to follow through with even contacting him with one stinking phone call.

Although i accepted the reality that she has completely transformed from being a Good Wife, a Good Mother and a Good Friend over a year ago, the abandonment of her only child and the potentials missed out by him having an intact 2 parent family like originally envisioned still causes moderate pain.

The truth is, is that he obviously is better off Without her presence in his life.

That reality still blows though, none the less.

2 weeks ago when i was driving him home after his most recent karate tournament, he turned to me and asked:

"Dad? Is it bad of me that i don't even remember what my Mom's voice sounds like anymore?"

I explained that was completely understandable and a natural result of an extremely unnatural circumstance that neither of us have any control over.

It still breaks my heart that our precious young 11 year old boy has to endure this abandonment rejection, through no fault of his own ever in his life. He should have been destined to grow up with so much more support, until a selfish alien took over my Wife and his Mother.

Just venting on what used to be a very special day to look forward to. I loved picking out nice feminine styled gifts of jewelry, chocolates and flowers for her on her birthday and contrary to her rewrite of 1 birthday right after she started her 1st affair and blamed me for forgetting her birthday, even though i purchased all of her gifts the previous day, and gave them to her on her birthday, i Never Forgot a single treasured special occasion.

Enough venting. I'll go back to my world of indifference to my former feelings, which still actually exist, but for my original Wife and Son's Mom, not this despicable selfish alien who forgot what used to be her most important values in life and will leave behind a very regretful legacy.

LTL
Have you talked to a lawyer yet? What is your plan? Has your son ever sat down and written out his feelings and sent it to your WW?
LTL,

In February you were writing to Dr. Harley for advice.
What was his recommendation?
Were you on the Radio?

Are you in Plan A?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you talked to a lawyer yet? What is your plan? Has your son ever sat down and written out his feelings and sent it to your WW?

Yes i have spoken with several lawyers, but primarily the one i am using to fight my home foreclosure case.

Initially each started out wanting to go Gung Ho to set up a child custody case,Until they saw that she has not made any effort to even contact our son. At that point, in my own words, they agreed that allowing the status quo to continue was in the best interests of my boy, with the caveat that she could absolutely pick up our son with no immediate legal consequences.

None of them have EVER had an opposing female mother/spouse totally dismiss their own child for so long with no substantial valid rationale to avoid doing so, especially since i have never shown an angry temper or previously was inclined to prevent any visitations, with the exceptions of those that were major drug addicts bouncing in and out of rehab.

Regarding having my son write a letter to her???

I had not felt that it would be appropriate previously to instigate or be instrumental in initiating him do do that.

I will definitely discuss the pros and cons with my IC tomorrow afternoon to see if that would be beneficial to our son, or if it would incur a potential scraping his emotional wound. Mostly, he seems to not have any significant fallout from his Mom abandoning us in the manner she did.

Thank you for the suggestion.

LTL
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
LTL,

In February you were writing to Dr. Harley for advice.
What was his recommendation?
Were you on the Radio?

Are you in Plan A?

Every time i wanted to even think of writing a letter to Dr. Harley, i couldn't believe how pathetic i reacted and could ONLY focus on trying to reconcile our marriage for so long by doing primarily a pretty darn good Plan A for over 2 1/2 years prior to her moving out with no advance notice of her intent. It was all planned behind my back with her sisters and new friends assistance.

Additionally, i am still fighting for my financial and emotional stability, battling plenty of periods of not knowing what to do next.

My health, regarding my knees and other joints have deteriorated significantly over this past extreme winter and i had a Doctor appointment last week to get a referral to an orthopedic specialist to explore options regarding my knees in particular, hoping that some minimally invasive options may help, yet fully accepting that i may need to have both knees replaced in the near future.

I am hoping and Praying that the arrival of warmer weather may naturally alleviate some of the pain and symptoms.

That's not a good predicament for someone needing to do roofing estimates.

I am not, nor will not do any mare Plan A ever since her F**k Off message to me last year on May 4th when i visited Her Mom's grave memorial site and texted her sister how nicely taken care of the plaque looked, along with complimenting the very pretty and recently placed flowers that were in the vase on the plaque.

LTL
LTL,

I think it would be a good idea to write Dr. Harley and get his perspective.

Sorry to hear about the joint problems. Those aren't fun.
LTL,


How is your situation moving along?
Thanks for asking.

I take very good care of my Son, who is 11 years old and in 6th Grade, which is Middle School. He is absolutely one of the kindest and emphatic young boys I honestly know, and that is from dozens of other adults observations, besides my own.

My contracting business is up and running, not as full time that I would like, yet pretty good and profitable for the past 3 months, minus a 2 job deal I got involved with that hasn't paid out yet via Fannie Mae foreclosure work. If I get paid, it doesn't sound like the party that contracted my company is paying for significant required code upgrade work required. I know the court systems and Lien laws very well, yet I know those are both lengthy processes to achieve results.

I am 11 days away from what may be my final foreclosure court date and am putting together an updated HAMP Modification Application for my mortgage.

As long as there is an application pending, the home can not go forth to the Sheriffs Sale, so I am doing the best I can and hoping my accountant can provide the paperwork in a fashion that the bank underwriters deem acceptable.

I presume you bumped my thread due to my post on someone else's situation referring to the complete lack of Motherly contact my Wife has not had with our Son. You read the days correctly. It is 631 days since the last time she even spoke with our boy.

With the exception of her sending a text to me, (on the precise anniversary date I discovered her 1st affair), which she stated that she needed to speak with me regarding insurance, which I ignored without going into any mental or emotional gymnastics from. I had written her a long time ago that I would not discuss anything at all with her unless the topic was about her choosing to get into an alcohol treatment program or how to begin phasing in supervised visitation, that I want nothing to do with her drama.

I'm just focussing on trying to learn to be a better person all around, using the MB principles in conjuction with my 12 Steps to fulfill that desire, so that I can raise the healthiest and caring son that is possible under the limited circumstances.

Other than that, I read every post on this site every day to stay tuned in and used to listen to the MB Radio program about 3 days per week, but work has affected that, which is the right thing to have as an interference as things standd

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
You read the days correctly. It is 631 days since the last time she even spoke with our boy.

I'm so sorry for your DS11. On one hand I'm glad that he has you and that he doesn't have to deal with his toxic mom.

I'm glad he knows what a special kid he is.

Glad you're a MB radio listener. Dr. Harley has a way of explaining things.


Recently, my WW has made one sided contact via texts to my business cell phone.

I have not responded, because the 1st few messages were 1 1/2 months ago after no contact at all in many many months.

Those were about insurance, but left very vague.

Last May, she did not continue her work family insurance plan, which I heard nothing about until late summer, when my orthopedic specialists billing department contacted me about unreimbursed services totalling about $15,000 dollars. I then had to call the school district she worked for and found out she took a leave of absence on May 1st and didn't continue the coverage.

So, I am currently trying for the Government Insurance plan instead of contacting her.

Last week she texted that we should be getting new insurance cards in the mail soon.

I figure so far it's just words. Until we have the insurance cards, I am still proceeding with the Government Program.

Now, last night she texted a nice comment about a video I posted on FB from my sons 6th Grade Fall Choir Concert held last week and about a Limousine Ride To Lunch he was awarded as a prize for his sales efforts for a school fundraising.

Copy Of Her Text From Last Night:
I'm glad (Sons Name) had fun on limo lunch and school sing "whisper" was awesome.
END.

So, after not responding to the previous texts, I am wondering if this deserves a response?

She didn't ask anything about wanting to talk to or visit our Son, who is 11 years old and quickly approaching 12.

As of today, it has been 652 Days since she last had any contact, phone or in person, with our Son.

P.S.
I am NOT all emotionally bent out of shape over the recent texts..... No depression, or wallowing in What ifs or self pity. I feel quite ambivalent about the contact, which I could not say 1 to 1 1/2 years ago.

LTL
I'm so baffled that a mom would completely up and cut all contact with her DS.

How is he doing? Does he ask about her anymore?

Good luck on the insurance. It will be nice to have one less thing tied through her.

I forget, but does she pay CS?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I'm so baffled that a mom would completely up and cut all contact with her DS.

How is he doing? Does he ask about her anymore?

Good luck on the insurance. It will be nice to have one less thing tied through her.

I forget, but does she pay CS?

It's self pride and shame along with self pity that stops her from doing even part of the right thing.

If it's not for her direct benefit, it doesn't matter I guess.

Yes, I know those are Disrespectful Judgments, but I believe that to be true.

I wouldn't say that publicly or to her.

No, she has not paid one cent in Child Support, nor gotten him a gift or an outfit ir even a card for any occasion.

She fell off the face of the earth. I guess she had herself pegged pretty accurately nearly two years ago when she sent me a link to the song, "Fallen", by Sara something. I posted the lyrics around March, 2013 if I remember correctly.

I'm asking for advice though. Should I respond to her sort of nice text?

LTL
Mind if I help you row we are in the same boat.
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Mind if I help you row we are in the same boat.

With megaphone in hand.....

Stroke,

Stroke,

Stroke.....

Welcome to my former nightmare TD.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I'm asking for advice though. Should I respond to her sort of nice text?

I wouldn't
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I'm asking for advice though. Should I respond to her sort of nice text?

I wouldn't

That's what I had figured, but it's better to get unbiased opinions to validate it.

It hasn't made me dwell on any thoughts about What If etc..., so I am finally in a much better place emotionally than I was since 2009 through 2013.

LTL
Are you planning to ever file for divorce? I understand your reason for not doing so but one thing I want to mention is if you died or became incapacitated tomorrow, your son would automatically go to WW. If you file for divorce, get sole legal and physical custody, you should be able to name a guardian for DS. You may want to speak to your lawyer about what your state laws are in this regard.

A friend and former MBer died suddenly and her son went to her exWH even though the boy had not seen him in years (he was in jail) and didn't want anything to do with him. There was nothing legally in place to stop the boy from going to his wayward father. Anyway...just something for you to consider. That WW has abandoned her child for over two yrs is a strong case for you to get sole.
After reading through my thread, I just wanted to add the link for the Serial Cheaters thread topic, so it would be easier for me to find in the future.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545954&page=all

LTL
LTL,
When I look at your situation, I am not sure if it is a Plan A from a distance that has fisseled.
Or if it was periods of Plan B you by you or her.

Let us know what you think, But I think her alcohol/addiction is the issue/problem that is stopping the ball from even starting to get rolling.

As Dr Harley has said those who are in addictions have "moments of clarity." When I would read about her sending you a nice message a couple times a year, I guessed that those were "moments of clarity." Possibly from hitting a bottom or an affair breakup maybe? And who knows maybe as a desperate call that she wants you try to woo her/ rescue her from the addiction.


I am not sure if I forget reading it, but I am wondering if you have ever left her the road map back. And if so, would it be worth repeating, and also letting her know what desire you might still have for being a couple and a family again, once she is free from alcohol/addiction.


Then again, I am not sure if you still have a desire to have her in your son's life. Or if it would be better for her not to be around him.
LTL, I agree with BR and wouldn't respond. I think your lives are much better with her out of it.
And I also emphatically agree with BR about filing for divorce and getting sole custody of your son, naming a legal guardian. Our friend and MB board member, Justpeachy, died suddenly and unexpectedly at age 42 last year. Her son went to her criminal ex-ws! She would have been outraged!
Oh my goodness no. The poor kid
Originally Posted by walrus
LTL,
When I look at your situation, I am not sure if it is a Plan A from a distance that has fisseled.
Or if it was periods of Plan B you by you or her.

Let us know what you think, But I think her alcohol/addiction is the issue/problem that is stopping the ball from even starting to get rolling.

As Dr Harley has said those who are in addictions have "moments of clarity." When I would read about her sending you a nice message a couple times a year, I guessed that those were "moments of clarity." Possibly from hitting a bottom or an affair breakup maybe? And who knows maybe as a desperate call that she wants you try to woo her/ rescue her from the addiction.


I am not sure if I forget reading it, but I am wondering if you have ever left her the road map back. And if so, would it be worth repeating, and also letting her know what desire you might still have for being a couple and a family again, once she is free from alcohol/addiction.


Then again, I am not sure if you still have a desire to have her in your son's life. Or if it would be better for her not to be around him.

I continued my Plan A the best I knew how at the time without benefit of instructions, which lasted from D-Day, 9-27-2009, or more accurately from 9-10-2009, when for the 1st time in our arrive, my Wife had voiced various things in our marriage which she stated she had become resentful about. It was a Perfect Plan A till D-Day abd then up through 2-16-2012 when she moved out without letting me or my Son know, the Plan A was occasionally set off track with extreme paralytic depression and sadness when the continued efforts seemed to be pushing her further away.

For the next 1 1/4 years after she moved out, from 2-16-2012 through 5-4-2013, I continued to Plan A as best as a minimally communicative Wife and Mother would allow, but I closed the door on 5-4-2013 after visiting her Moms burial memorial and sending a nice message to her sister. The Wife replied 2 1/2 hors after I contacted my S-I-L with a very nasty F##K Off message to me. I haddit and that was the day I stopped seeking out any potential opportunities to Plan A any further.

So, about 2 times per year you observed, she sends a luke warm message. I have not replied since I gave up.

If the messages were directly about our Son and/or any visitation or phone call, I would refer her to a portion of a previous e-mail where i stated what she would need to do to attempt to visit.

1st, visitation would be only allowed in a supervised setting.

I have checked with agencies that could provide this service. She would need to pay the fees for this agency.

An alcohol BAC test would be required, with Zero Tolerance.

To get past the Supervised aspect of visitation, she would have to have a verifiable 90 days of continuous sobriety in AA, along with DASA counseling, with me being authorized to have all session details openly available to me for verification.

There is to be Zero Contact with her Affair Partner.


Next on your list was the presumption of Moments Of Clarity.
Well, if that translates to periods of Self Pity and Woes Me, then it may momentarily be the same thing.

I Can Not be the hand that reaches out to attempt to save her from her addiction any longer.

All of my previous attempts and gestures were met with hostility and rejection. I am not the one for her to turn to due to the extreme shame that she would have to face and accept, while twisting it to seem as if I was dragging her through the mud.

In my mind, the Alcohol and multiple Affairs are both addictions.

For me to even ever consider reeonniling, the EP's would need to be tighter than any standard EP's I have ever seen accooplished.

She would just think I was trying to be controlling. That's on her though. If she showed through actions someday, I might consider it. I never thought I wouldn't, but any. FR would not be worth it.

So, supposedly last weeks message indicated that me and my Son will be getting insurance coverage cards once again. I haven't seen them yet. Maybe it was one of her moments of Woes Me, What Have I Done, but so far, it's only been words in a teet with no proof or action following up.

If I do get insurance, I will quickly use it to get both of my knees replaced this winter, so can stand or walk for longer than 5 minutes without debilitating pain.

I am NOT responding to her.


LTL

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And I also emphatically agree with BR about filing for divorce and getting sole custody of your son, naming a legal guardian. Our friend and MB board member, Justpeachy, died suddenly and unexpectedly at age 42 last year. Her son went to her criminal ex-ws! She would have been outraged!

I will discuss that with my attorney next week or the week after when I have my next appointment with him.

That scenario seems so scary to even consider.

LTL
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Oh my goodness no. The poor kid

He has a Very Fulfilling life with Lots of Love and I am cautious to ensure he grows independent thinking without ne Hovering and becoming too enmeshed.

Karate for the past 3 years, Cub Scouts from 1st through 5th Grade then Webelows and now for 6th Grade is Boy Scouts and Catechism Class once per week, along with computer gaming with his friends at the library and a monthly Book Reading Club, plus he is in his Middle School Choir and Orchestra playing the. Violin.

He does average or slightly better on his scholastic grades and we are working on his organizational abilities to ensure assignments get done and turned in on time.

He just won an award from his school PTO Fundraiser of getting a Limousine Ride To Lunch last week. He was Very prepared and direct in his sales techniques. I was Very Proud of his polite demeanor and knowledge of tbe catalog products he had to sell. I didn't have to assist him at all, except for delivering the products when they arrived.

He shows fantastic morals, empathy, Love and responsibility on a regular basis and is developing a very good character. Ha-Ha, his favorite TV Show in the morning before school now is, Leave It To Beaver. Don't laugh. It demonstrates fantastic Family morals and Right and Wrong with consequences.

LTL
I hope I didn't miss anyones questions or concerns.

It's tougher to read a full paragraph, let alone a full page on a cell phone screen.

Let me know if I missed anything and I'll address that later today.

Thank You All.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
[
He shows fantastic morals, empathy, Love and responsibility on a regular basis and is developing a very good character. Ha-Ha, his favorite TV Show in the morning before school now is, Leave It To Beaver. Don't laugh. It demonstrates fantastic Family morals and Right and Wrong with consequences.

That is just great!! Jediknight's children have made amazing improvements under his single care. Dr. Harley is a huge fan of single fathers.
One more piece of news, is that 2 weeks ago I had my final foreclosure hearing on my home and the bank won their judgment.

That's not the end of my fight though.

My business has done pretty good since July and I still will be re-applying for a HAMP Modification loan based on the recent earnings.

According to my calculations, I should be qualified, but from what I've read, the Banks have no incentive or regulations to actually approve the modifications, just the incentive to offer them.

LTL
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

I wasn't able to Fast Forward, so I will listen to it either later tonight after my Son goes to sleep, or right after I take him to school tomorrow.

Thanks BH.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

I wasn't able to Fast Forward, so I will listen to it either later tonight after my Son goes to sleep, or right after I take him to school tomorrow.

Thanks BH.

LTL
You're welcome and I think you will enjoy it. The study actually shows how much better kids do in a single father household compared to a single mother household.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And I also emphatically agree with BR about filing for divorce and getting sole custody of your son, naming a legal guardian. Our friend and MB board member, Justpeachy, died suddenly and unexpectedly at age 42 last year. Her son went to her criminal ex-ws! She would have been outraged!

JustPeachy died?? I wasn't around when she was here, but I did read some of her story. Wow...this is so sad, much like Chrisner.

Beautiful woman, inside and out. I hope her son is okay.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

I just got done listening to this twice BH, but didn't hear anything about the study you referred to. It was good listening though, nonetheless. The man was in the military, straightened up his life, is a member of AA and speaks with his Sponsor daily.

I guess that he has custody of his children currently and he was recommended to file for Divorce to ensure the WW doesn't try to pretend to want to come home just for a new status quo in a manipulative means to reestablish her rights to child custody.

Thanks for trying.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

I just got done listening to this twice BH, but didn't hear anything about the study you referred to. It was good listening though, nonetheless. The man was in the military, straightened up his life, is a member of AA and speaks with his Sponsor daily.

I guess that he has custody of his children currently and he was recommended to file for Divorce to ensure the WW doesn't try to pretend to want to come home just for a new status quo in a manipulative means to reestablish her rights to child custody.

Thanks for trying.

LTL
Strange. You didn't hear that Dr. Harley stated that children raised by fathers statisticly turn out just as well as children raised by both parents?
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I'm asking for advice though. Should I respond to her sort of nice text?

I wouldn't

That's what I had figured, but it's better to get unbiased opinions to validate it.

It hasn't made me dwell on any thoughts about What If etc..., so I am finally in a much better place emotionally than I was since 2009 through 2013.

LTL

If you are in Plan A you should HOWEVER I think you should email Dr. Harley for direction. I think he will encourage you to divorce her
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Ha-Ha, his favorite TV Show in the morning before school now is, Leave It To Beaver. Don't laugh. It demonstrates fantastic Family morals and Right and Wrong with consequences.

LTL

I smiled when I read this because I dont have cable tv. I have a digital antenna that hardly works.
But I have the entire series of the Andy Griffith show and shows like Bonanza and the Lone Ranger on DVD and the kids love them.
That's the only TV show they watch!

You are right. they do teach good values.
My son is your sons age (12)
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

Brainhurts,

He also discussed this in my call which was in winter 2012
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

Brainhurts,

He also discussed this in my call which was in winter 2012
Jan-Feb 2012 or Nov-Dec 2012?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

I just got done listening to this twice BH, but didn't hear anything about the study you referred to. It was good listening though, nonetheless. The man was in the military, straightened up his life, is a member of AA and speaks with his Sponsor daily.

I guess that he has custody of his children currently and he was recommended to file for Divorce to ensure the WW doesn't try to pretend to want to come home just for a new status quo in a manipulative means to reestablish her rights to child custody.

Thanks for trying.

LTL
Strange. You didn't hear that Dr. Harley stated that children raised by fathers statisticly turn out just as well as children raised by both parents?

I'll listen again today. Maybe I got distracted while listening. It was a short clip.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you seen this?

Dr. Harley talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

I just got done listening to this twice BH, but didn't hear anything about the study you referred to. It was good listening though, nonetheless. The man was in the military, straightened up his life, is a member of AA and speaks with his Sponsor daily.

I guess that he has custody of his children currently and he was recommended to file for Divorce to ensure the WW doesn't try to pretend to want to come home just for a new status quo in a manipulative means to reestablish her rights to child custody.

Thanks for trying.

LTL
Strange. You didn't hear that Dr. Harley stated that children raised by fathers statisticly turn out just as well as children raised by both parents?

I'll listen again today. Maybe I got distracted while listening. It was a short clip.

LTL

Okay BH, I listened to it 2 more times and obviously I wasn't attentive enough the 1st 2 times I listened, so I did hear the reference to the report stated each of these times.

It doesn't surprise me though. A Father who strives hard to be a main guiding component in their children's development and nurturing is a more likely candidate to have their children turn out physically, mentally and emotionally better off than any single parent without that nurturing demeanor or caught short due to unexpected life turmoil.

Thank you once again.

LTL
These are the texts I have received since 9-27-2014, which I have not replied to after zero contact since last February.

I am wondering if I should finally reply to the one about insurance.

.

SA: 9-27-2014
Need to talk to u about our insurance.
4:46 pm

It's important so I hope you can find time to respond.
6:10 pm

MO:� 10-6-2014
I need to talk to u.
4:30 pm

MO:� 11-3-2014
I received email from S11 school regarding limo lunch he won for recent fundraiser. They need permission slip so he doesn't miss this. From PTO President.
9:32 am

MO:� 11-3-2014
I will have new insurance cards for you both soon too.
9:34 am

SU:� 11-9-2014
I'm glad S-11 had fun on limo lunch and school sing "whisper" was awesome.
6:57 pm
(She obviously must have looked at my FB page where I post cool updated photos or videos for my family and friends to see. I never Blocked her, because I thought she could see what she was missing. Son was recently in the School Fall Choir Concert and the School Orchestra Concert playing his Violin and I posted photos and videos of both performances.)

.
Possible Reply:

We have not received any insurance cards as of yet.

It would have helped to know that you had canceled the family insurance�coverage before the doctors had built up around $16,800 in charges for services that are now in collection that I thought were covered.

Neither the Doctors or me were aware that insurace coverage was not continued. You had previously informed me last year that you would keep the family insurance coverage going, because that was the least you could do.

Is there new insurance and if so, when did/does it start?

If there is, where do I go or who do I contact to get the insurance cards?


Well, I finaly am scheduled for dual knee implant replacement surgery, which is scheduled for July 17th.

What a relief!!!

I currently can barely walk 5-10 feet without sitting down to alleviate the severe pain of bone grinding into and wearing away the other bones from my femur to my tibia.

LTL
Good for you! That sounds immensely painful. Were you a runner?
No, except for in High School.

It's from 37 years of being a contractor and 1st injuring my right knee in 1978 from stepping on job ste debris the wrong way and then a 40 foot fall in 1985 from a ladder.

Too many ladders being climbed, along with genetics compounding the potential and It all took it's toll.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
No, except for in High School.

It's from 37 years of being a contractor and 1st injuring my right knee in 1978 from stepping on job ste debris the wrong way and then a 40 foot fall in 1985 from a ladder.

Too many ladders being climbed, along with genetics compounding the potential and It all took it's toll.

LTL


Best of luck to you, dodgy knees run in my family too :-(
I guess my WW read my FB Update Post about my knee surgery.

After not visiting or calling my Son for over 1,000 days now, she sent me this e-mail this morning.

I don't trust her, plus the care taking plans have already been discussed with Family and arranged. He is thrilled to be spending time with his Cousins.

LTL


Dear (My Name),

I am happy to see you will finally be getting the much needed surgery on your knees. I am Wishing you an smooth surgery and quick recovery. I would like to help with S-12. My last day of summer school is July 15, though I am working a second job to, that schedule can be flexible if I'm needed to help with my son. Please allow my the opportunity to show you I am not the monster I was.

Good luck to you (My Name)

Has she made any contact to your DS12?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Has she made any contact to your DS12?

No she has not. Once a year near his birthday, she sends a message about how much she misses him and how much she loves him, but she knows where his activities are and does not show up at all. All that usually along with describing how much she has changed. But, what has changed? Nothing.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Has she made any contact to your DS12?

No she has not. Once a year near his birthday, she sends a message about how much she misses him and how much she loves him, but she knows where his activities are and does not show up at all. All that usually along with describing how much she has changed. But, what has changed? Nothing.

LTL
This breaks my heart every time you tell us. I can't commend you enough LTL, for being a great father to your awesome DS12.

I just don't understand how a mother would continue to do this to her son.
Well, here comes the Seasonal letter of crocodile faux remorse from my Wayward Wife.

I just wanted to share to show how pathetic a Waywards life can go, even though her FaceBook messages are all unicorns and rainbows and lovey dovey.

It's ALL a Facade.


Rehash: Together at D-Day September 2009 for 8 years and married for 5+ years and have, as of that time, our 4 1/2 year old Son together. I changed my self employed work schedule when Our Son started pre-school and I have taken him to school every day until 6th grade when he advanced to Middle School and takes the school bus.

After her being in Alcoholics Anonymous and sober for about 10 years, she relapsed at some point here. She started going out with old high school girlfriend's supposedly and I wasn't aware she relapsed. I attributed her going out as a way for her to relieve her depression about the loss of her Mom.


1) 2 days after 2008 Thanksgiving, her Mom goes into hospital. She never was released and unexpectedly passed away on February 7, 2009, One week after being sent home for one day to see how well she could do on her own, because she seemed to be recovering.

2) 1st Affair started December, 2008 with Reunion Dot Com message from her to old boyfriend from 17 years prior advising him about the hospitalization of her Mother. All throughout the Winter, Spring and Summer of 2009, she says and I believed that she was severely depressed about the unexpected loss of her Mom and that was the reason for her being so distanced. I discovered she had been texting him 5,000 to 7,000 texts per month and had 20-40 hours per month of phone calls with him.


3) I accidentally discover love notes that revealed her affair to me on September 27, 2009. Without knowing Marriage Builders, I relentlessly pursue Plan A and never gave up, even After she moved out in February, 2012.

4) 2nd Affair is when She has a Same Sex one night stand with her long term BFF in Fall of 2009, right around Halloween. I didn't discover this until after she eventually moved out in February of 2012. She moved into the same apartment building that a younger brother and a younger sister each had an apartment at.

5) She begins 3rd Affair with that Very Same BFF boyfriend. Her BFF And that girls Boyfriend were both lifelong friends with my Wayward Wife.

6) She moves out in February 2012 with no advance notice. Nothing has changed during the past 3+ years. She thankfully did Not take our Son with her when she left.

7) Mostly No Contact. She rarely has Any visits with our Son. Once or twice a year I get a similar letter from Her as this.

8) She had Affair Partner #4 move in with her in Summer/Fall of 2012 and they are still living together, but moved someplace else and I have never been notified of where.

Now comes this letter as of last Friday morning:

.


Dear LTL
I honestly can't even find words to say. Words can not undo or even ease the damage I've caused to you, S-12 and others. All I can do now is hope that my finally getting on my feet will gradually rebuild trust in those I've hurt. I have trouble even comprehending how I could just be gone from S-12's life so much. It deeply sickens me. Instead of running into the pit if pity, guilt, blame, depression, etc, I need to face the realities of what I have caused. I'm deeply sorry though I don't remotely expect you to accept that but I hope one day you will.
I need to work on rebuilding a relationship with S-12. I need for your to let me though. Please work with me on this. I am not the same as I was for past several years. I've woken to some very harsh realities of my past and how I dealt with things and I really with I could go back and slap myself 7 years ago when I started to lose it. Never could I have imagined I'd get so lost. I've struggled the past year repairing me and have a long way to go of course, recovering never ends but I'm in a better place now. Please work with me in trying to help fix the void I caused for S-12.

Wifes Name

END OF LETTER:

No court order, as I knew Any Judge would have compelled some variation of shared custody and she is still in Alcohol relapse drinking mode and I know Judges don't care, as long as she would not be drunk with him. No child support either though.

I do not respond to these once or twice a year letters.

Should I ever finally respond?

She hasn't really changed yet and my 12 3/4 year old Son does not Ever remember her doing Anything with us and wondered 6 months ago if he should feel bad because he doesn't remember what her voice sounds like.

She has Never since she abandoned him, sent over so much as a Birthday Card or Merry Christmas Card, let alone any gifts ever.

I don't think I should respond since my Son is not interested in seeing her, but I wanted an outside opinion.

And, No. I am not going to take her to court for Legal Custody. She is too much of a coward to attempt to legally kidnap my Son.

What are your opinions?

LTL
She needs to show action before you do anything. So far, she has sent a letter, expecting you to figure out her problems. If she wants to be part of her son's life, she needs to come up with a plan, starting with sobriety.

If she persists, then you could respond.
Originally Posted by apples123
She needs to show action before you do anything. So far, she has sent a letter, expecting you to figure out her problems. If she wants to be part of her son's life, she needs to come up with a plan, starting with sobriety.

If she persists, then you could respond.

That's pretty much my personal beliefs and mantra too.

As an example, She gets the exact same e-mails from my Sons school about upcoming extracurricular activities that she could, At Minimum, inquire about, such as his Orchestra Concerts and Choir Concerts.

Words mean Very Little to me. It's the actual Actions that count. But, since I am in the middle of the situation and potentially emotionally biased, I wanted to reach out for unbiased feedback to make sure I'm putting my Son's Best Interests at the forefront.

Thank You.

LTL
Plus, quite a while ago, without her asking about any visitations, I provided 2 optional ways for her to start and build up a visitation regime with Our Son.

One, was to submit to a program of recovery for her alcoholism with the allowance of me being able to openly speak to whomever she was dealing with, so that I could be made aware of any progress or even negative aspects of her potential recovery with a gradually increasing visitation schedule based on her recovery progress.

The other, if she chose not to accept the fact that she has an alcohol problem, was to schedule a monitored facility that she would have to pay the fees for, to conduct visitation under a supervised setting.

Since that was included in one of my distant past lengthy e-mails to her, I am unsure if she ever even read it, as she never referred to the conditional terms I required.

But, if she didn't read it, or forgot about it, that's on her, not me, and that was about 2 years ago that I provided her that as several options.

Thank you.

LTL
I agree, the letter indicates she wants you to propose something and do the work. While i am an advocate for both parents being involved with children, it is action which is meaningful, not words.

If she means what she says, there are so many avenues for her to initiate progress. So far she has done zero.

I wouldnt respond if you are in Plan B.
Originally Posted by NebDane
I agree, the letter indicates she wants you to propose something and do the work. While i am an advocate for both parents being involved with children, it is action which is meaningful, not words.

If she means what she says, there are so many avenues for her to initiate progress. So far she has done zero.

I wouldnt respond if you are in Plan B.

Thanks to you too for chiming in.

I tried SO HARD for a long time to promote visitations and arrange it so it would be even more convenient for her, with the only stipulation being that my Son was Not to have Any contact at all with her current affair partner, which she did not adhere to on the previous 2 occasions anyways.

Then, when I was actively attempting to facilitate more visits and optioned multiple days for him to be made available to her, she basically ripped my head off, accusing Me of trying to make her look like a Bad Mother. Each time, she refuted the visitations, stating that she had too many anxieties in her life to deal with our son.

Then, the Final time she did see him was in February of 2013, and 12 minutes after she had picked him up and took him to a Denny's Restaurant, she called me up saying that she just could not deal with our son right then, because, once again, she was having too many anxieties.

So I instantly met her at a midpoint and I will Never forget the look of schock and bewilderment on my Son's face. He was just in awe of how that visitation episode went. I could see and feel the emotional pain that he was going through.

I will NEVER subject him to that kind of emotional abuse, Ever Again!!!

That was just the epitome of how pathetic of a Mother she had not become, ever since she started drinking and having her multiple serial affairs.

Those are My Feelings. But I needed and wanted to get other opinions besides my own. So, thank you very much.

LTL
A friend once told me this-you cannot care about someones problems more than they do.
A very strange trait of alcoholics is that they believe that talking about solving a problem is the same as solving a problem. They don't make a differentiation between talk and action. I am sure she feels horrible guilt about abandoning her child and writing out these dramatic, self-pitying letters makes her feel much better because she "feels" like she has actually done something. Please note that her letter is all about herself.

If I were you, I would not respond at all. Dont' invite her chaos back into his little life, especially at this very vulnerable age.

Are you divorced?

My own father abandoned me when I was 4 and he floated in and out of my life. He would go years with no contact. He showed up when I was 13. I was in a state of rebellion and I ran away to live with him. I became part of his life of corruption. He took me to bars, bookie houses, race tracks, you name it. As a 13 yr old, that lifestyle really appealed to me.

The reason I bring this up is because your son is a teenager who might be susceptible to that wild lifestyle if exposed to it.
Originally Posted by apples123
A friend once told me this-you cannot care about someones problems more than they do.

So very true! And we see that principle demonstrated here every day.
No Melody, there is no Divorce action in place.

As a reminder, she does have Family Insurance Coverage from the school district where she is a School Bus Driver.

I needed this insurance to have Both of my knees replaced with new titanium implants this past summer, which also wound up requiring 3 additional full tear out infection removal debridement surgeries over the following month. Now, those 5 total surgeries really took their toll on my physical therapy rehabilitation progress, because they had to surgically be extremely invasive in removing the necessary internal muscles, tendons, ligaments and bones affected. Ths physical therapy is $1,500.00 per week alone, and I am initially prescibed to continue for 30 weeks.

The total billing without insurance is over $150,000.00 just for the 5 knee surgeries, and I still may need a knee modification surgery, yet to be determined, due to the left knee possibly having some additional problems.

The good news about that though, is that I can walk, albeit slowly, for medium distances now without debilitating and excruciating pain for the first time in the past 10 years, as each of the previous years regressed further and further into bone digging through the other bone. Ouch!!!

I also need ear surgery coming up in the near future because my right ear has gone down to only 20% hearing in the Fall of 2012. Plus, I have a stomach lining hernia that is bothersome, but not too painful, yet needs to be medically attended to shortly as well.

She needs to Actionably demonstrate some realistic progress as long as I continue to maintain the status quo, before I choose to reply or decide to once again, in determine if her influence in our Son's life would at minimum be a neutral effect with a future hope for establishing some form of a positive influence in his life. I will NOT Allow the emotional abandonment abuse to Ever occur again.

Yes, I think she is ridden with guilt. There may even finally be some self-doubt about her chosen life path being reflected on. But, those are just once again, words and thoughts. There is No Actions she has taken. You are probably right, that these occasional letters makes her "Feel" like she is actually taking some sort of action and doing something about the situation.

I am Not going to be her personal planner or personal shovel to be utilized just to dig her out of her self inflicted hole in her life that she created.

I have already tortured myself for years, attempting to Care For Her more than she realistically has done for herself. To that, I say that I wipe my hands clean with a guilt free conscience. I've done everything and More than should ever be expected of someone. I will not do it again.

I definitely miss the envisionment of who I once thought her to be, but this foreign alien has zero hold on enmeshing me once again.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And I also emphatically agree with BR about filing for divorce and getting sole custody of your son, naming a legal guardian. Our friend and MB board member, Justpeachy, died suddenly and unexpectedly at age 42 last year. Her son went to her criminal ex-ws! She would have been outraged!

I will discuss that with my attorney next week or the week after when I have my next appointment with him.

That scenario seems so scary to even consider.

LTL

We never heard any kind of update on this and I don't see any posting about any divorce. Whatever happened?

Originally Posted by SusieQ
We never heard any kind of update on this and I don't see any posting about any divorce. Whatever happened?

I addressed the lack of a divorce action in the first line of the immediate previous post with further details in the following paragraphs.

I did speak with my attorney.

Basically, even if I took her to court to prove that she was an unfit Mother, that would not be enough to Terminate Her Parental Rights. That extreme measure is only enacted by State Statute in the even of a divorced family, where the Sole Primary Custodial Parent is now remarried and their new spouse wishes to legally adopt the child.

I asked what would happen under the, then current circumstances if I were to pass away suddenly, either with or without a divorce.

The answer was the same. Regardless, she still is his next closest blood relative and would be eligible to take over custody, no matter what wishes I desired or put forth in my Will.

LTL
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