Marriage Builders
Posted By: TwoSided Double life - 07/30/13 02:10 AM
James 4:17 "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn�t do it, sin" or something like that it's been awhile.

Everything on the outside is great, great wife, great sex life, good kids, job is sweeeeeeet, but like usually I'm a mess inside.

I have deep seeded issues with life in general the finality of death, the afterlife debate, and the list goes on. This relates to my marriage because a few times year I do some really selfish things that I feel guilty for, but always end up doing them again. I know all the answers unfortunately I routinely choose to not impliment them and choose worldly selfish desires instead.

There is a huge back story about being involved in a cultic legalistic church and studying over 10 religions, but that's not for here.

How do you stop having preplanned ONS 2-3 times a year once you start? Besides the obvious "You just stop!" Like anything I know you have to want to stop........I guess I'm at the point I want too and that's why I'm posting here.

Any Men what made you stop besides getting caught! It would take act of God (irony) for me to caught. We are talking 36-48 hours of selfish behavior per year.

**Confession is not a option**
Posted By: Gamma Re: Double life - 07/30/13 02:22 AM
Twosided,

Start by confessing to the person most injured by your horrible adultery, your betray wife, confess everything, apologize for exposing her to STDs and risking her life.

Then confess what you have done to your children.

Then confess to the husbands of these women you are cheating with, these are your other victims, they are not faceless non-persons.

If you can do those three things you will stop your cheating for good.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: TwoSided Re: Double life - 07/30/13 02:34 AM
Not a big fan of that advice! I'm a realist and like most things in life learning of really hurtful information of any kind is rarely good, benfeficial, or even fruitful!

May it be addiction, daily porn, lieing, cheating, gambling, alcoholism, rape, pedofilia, etc etc. Think of any politician, marriage, religious figure, relative where YOU THOUGHT of them in a better light after their indiscretions were made known to all? Can't think of any can you? Or maybe you can IDK, but then where in life does it stop? This confessing? Is it when you lust, lie, white lie, fudge taxes, are selfish with your time, look at some porn, drink too much, etc? Why only confess some things and not others is there a magic line of severity that once crossed deems confession?

The best action from a realist point of view is stop the behavior and move on! I'm going to edit my post to add confession is not a option either.

These aren't married woman these are college aged woman. Like I said pre planned ONS 2-3 times a year. It's a subculture that is thriving and gaining in popularity. It's the fascination with youth that is hard to give up.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Double life - 07/30/13 02:49 AM
Your wife has a right to know that you are having multiple affairs.
That is the first thing you must do: expose your behavior to her, your children, family and close friends.

That is a "realistic" answer sir. All of the advice offered by Dr Harley is "realistic".
What is unrealistic is your belief that you will never be caught.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:00 AM
I got scripture, too:

"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." John 3:20-21

"Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them." Ephesians 5:11

Confession is your only option.
Posted By: markos Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
**Confession is not a option**

Then fixing this problem isn't an option. You will not get any better without accountability.

Next!
Posted By: markos Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:05 AM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
Any Men what made you stop besides getting caught! It would take act of God (irony) for me to caught.

I will pray for you to get caught, then.
Posted By: reading Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:20 AM
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by TwoSided
Any Men what made you stop besides getting caught! It would take act of God (irony) for me to caught.

I will pray for you to get caught, then.

Yes. Hopefully you will get caught and your wife will find out and then the poor woman can deal with the nightmare in her life......a husband who is lying to her. Keeping secrets from her. Hurting her behind her back. She KNOWS it is happening in her deepest soul but has no clue what the heck it IS that is not quite right between you two.

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:26 AM
Please read.
To the Unfaithful Lurkers ~A Gift~
Posted By: TwoSided Re: Double life - 07/30/13 05:03 AM
Thanks Brainhurts, I did read the ling, little is applicable it seems most stories of infidelity are very different from mine alike in definition only. My choices are calculated the equivalent of a gambler saving .25 a day for 3-4 months only to go gamble it away in a night while supposedly out for a game.

There is no inate right in this life we are but a culmination of our percieved realities and experiences nothing more. The kids who grew up in FLDS cults Amish, Jonestown, Taliban, etc had realities so are out of kilter to what most think is normal, yet they could see it no other way. Many still talk about those times as some of the best of their life. If never exposed to the world most live in they wouldn't have realized something was terribly their utopia's may have continued. Hence the pain, doubt, wonder, and suicideds resulting since. There is no basis for exposure helping anything or anyone except the WS's own guilty conscious. I stand by my belief that a truly repentent person if they truly do repent and moves on is all that must be done. Exposure is only useful for stopping a affair......it only brings pain as do most other hurtful revelations, that is a fact. I see the advice here is very basic as if a book makes it law. The book is just a tool.

If I said help me build a fence and everyone said go get a hammer, but my stipulation was NO HAMMER what good is it to still advise a hammer?

Hopefully prayer, christian music, and a contrite heart will help me get in the place I desire to be.

Best of luck to all!
Posted By: Mae_1 Re: Double life - 07/30/13 05:55 AM
You are so lost and I feel really sad for you. You aren't going to stop. It's not possible until you expose your addiction to the light of truth. Your justifications are so thin they are see through.

If you dont choose truth you will become a shell of a person. Maybe you already are. A pitiful creature- think gollum. You don't think that living with a morally-depraved person will effect your family? Your wife will suffer far longer living with such a creature than she ever would with exposure.

You are already living in the darkness. Shrinking from the light. You will destroy yourself and your family on this path.
Posted By: happyfuture66 Re: Double life - 07/30/13 06:18 AM
It's sad you believe a few ONS are OK and that you can just stop. Your attitude indicates you are a serial cheater, you are addicted to the ONS. Reading your posts, I doubt you could just stop without taking the necessary steps to protect your marriage and maintain appropriate boundaries.

Yes exposure is a useful tool in killing an A but it is also to help hold the WS accountable and affair proof a M.

Your selfish behaviour will cause pain and devastation for your wife and family.

Your wife has the right to know what is happening in her marriage. Have you considered that your behaviour is exposing her to STDs? She has a right to know about your ONS so she can be tested.

I suggest you read the articles on this website and well as some of the other threads on this forum, so you can not only learn about A but gain an insight into the consequences and devastation A cause.
Posted By: BetrayedP Re: Double life - 07/30/13 06:34 AM
Two sided, Dr. Harley has had experience with your type of cheating. We may not be able to convince you, of what must be done, but maybe he can offer you alternative solutions. Of course everyone is right about exposure. You need to at least out yourself to your closest friend and someone who can hold you accountable (see why logically this should be your wife). Then you should put extraordinary precautions in place to stop yourself from doing what you are now.

Don't trust the forum? Why not write to Dr. Harley on the radio show or sign up for a session of counselling on the phone?

You know what must be done.... Hidden sin only repeats itself, and eventually it WILL come to the light. You'll slip up sometime. By exposing yourself, at least you will gain some respect for being honest about something.
Posted By: NB28 Re: Double life - 07/30/13 07:33 AM
Twosided,

Why are you looking various religions? Searching and searching and searching for meaning in life and as you put it have "deep sited issues"? You are a "mess inside" because you choose to behave in a destructive way especially towards your marriage. People who act in a decent manner don't have the issues you have.

We can't help you with finding the meaning of life or make sense of how other complex cultures or religions operate but we can help you achieve a great marriage and family life, live in a wholesome satisfying moral existence based on principals and advice developed by a leading psychologist in his field with decades of experience.

We can help you act in a way that stops you pressing a self destruct button 2-3 times a year.

The only thing I agree with from your posts is that you are right you can't just stop, the way to stop is to come clean about what you have been doing to your wife.

Let us know when you are ready to do that.
Posted By: TwoSided Re: Double life - 07/30/13 08:59 AM
Good replies!!
@Mae_1, Shell of a creature is a pretty hurtful thing to say and assumes alot and the cross I carry is my own alone, at least currently it is. Exposure would obviously change that for the worse imo. My daily routine is and life is very textbook. Make coffee, wake the wife up, wake up the kids, make breakfast, give tons of hugs be silly, and we go to work. Txt, flirt, joke, talk about our day, date nights, family trips. We are considered the lucky ones 19 years and counting. The things you describe sound great in the principle based theoretical world of how you may wish it to be, but the REALITY is everything is pretty awesome. I can almost guarantee you would be envious if you were a neighbor or family member. Since you know my secret you would never admit such a thing and of course my secret being revealed would change that.

@Betrayed_P, I think many want to believe it will come to light, but how? Aside from forum life so many affairs and various other transgression go unnoticed taken to the grave. Why would I believe my case would be any different? I do not believe in having confidants, people you tell your deepest darkest secrets too, I've done that in the past in a spiritual enviroment more than most can imagine. Things can always be hidden if there is a will there is way, the desire to stop must come from within not through external checks and balances. While good aids someone like me could easily bypass any question a person who I confided in may ask.....proving again it must come from within to be genuine. The burden is on me it's my guilt, stress, and conscience everyone else in the family is on cloud 9. Of course the STD piece always comes up regardless if I'm tested someone will talk about latency periods and some undetectable case that they heard about. I use non oxynol 9 and a condom the odds of a STD even if they had one is practically nil. I do understand that argument and it is a source of guilt.


@NB28, it wasn't the cheating that started first it was the paradox that started to brew regading faith and afterlife. If there is no life after death, if religion is a man's invention in the hope to understand what he cannot, a end! If we truly are evolved beings, and there is no magic moral reward, life starts to become cloudy. Over 2200 Christian religions, christianity today was non existant 100 years ago, 500 years ago there was only Catholicism speaking of christian religions alone, then factor in Islam, Hindu, Taoism, Judaism, Budhism, Mythology, then all of the smaller religions. It opens more questions than it answers. Add in the chaotic world we live in, death, genocide, racism, hate, murder, rape, abortion over 20 million a year in India, child trafficking and you wonder? Is this a existance with a omnipotent God? It surely seems more like evolution of a species. Lastly, antiquated beliefs on homosexuality which is clearly genetic or phobias and addictions......etc etc the lists go on. Yet so many evangelicals believe they can just say "Oh, my Jesus loves me Oh my Jesus" yet live a life of laziness, debauchery, idolatry, a multitude of commissionary and ommissionary sins and the blood always cleanses! Really? How is that possible?

Back to me and my problem I can stop I was a moral compass for 15 years the crack in my armor is lack of faith in a God. My selfish decision stems solely from that!

I go through life wondering how people don't ask these questions? They seem content just going to church 1 time a month, smoking, drinking, hanging out and think all is well. I on the other hand think about all things almost all the time. My wife says I'm different that very few people analyze things to the depths I do...........I guess you can add to that list hide things to the depths that I do too.

Again thanks for the tips!
Posted By: BetrayedP Re: Double life - 07/30/13 09:28 AM
Two-sided, the Bible answers most of your questions. If people would only read it... but then again, you need not only to read it, but for it to be revealed to you.

Before Christ and for those who haven't heard the good news of the gospel, there is the conscience. It is your conscience that is eating you, and that is what has brought you here. You will be judged by your conscience. The thing about that is you can train yourself to be numb to it. "Sear it" if you will. So sure, there is a possibility that you can die and take your secret to the grave, but YOU will always know.

You don't believe in having a confidante, but here you are selfishly getting your fix by airing your dirty laundry anonymously. You really needed to get it off your chest, to tell somebody. Well, I bet that brings temporary relief, but then you will go back to feeling bad about the real type of person you are ... certainly not the type of person people would envy if they knew the whole truth about you.

New flash, you wouldn't be the first or last human to fall from grace. No one would really think you special for having sinned.

You are trying to save your life, but you are really losing it.
Posted By: BetrayedP Re: Double life - 07/30/13 09:36 AM
On external checks and balances, yeah, you need the will to follow them, but they do make a transgression that much harder to commit. Why? because it involves a lot more thought and planning to bypass the barrier. That gives you a lot more time to stop yourself.

eg. You put a keylogger on your pc and other electronic devices and have a gps on you at all times which your wife monitors.

In order to secretly bypass these you will have to invest a lot more time into setting up and attending secret rendezvous. It makes it a lot more likely that you will get caught and the threat of losing everything becomes a real deterrent.
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: Double life - 07/30/13 10:54 AM
Okay all this "my cross to bear" and religious pandering is ridiculous. Confession isn't an option? C'mon now. You simply don't want your continual, ongoing secret revealed that you actively seek out.

What's the answer? Just simply stop having second with other women or divorce your wife.

You mention politicians and others and how options change about them after we learn something out about them. So what. Don't engage in activities that can get you caught if you're worried aabout how others think of you.

I don't know really what we can offer you unless you want to be honest, quit waxing poetic.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Double life - 07/30/13 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
Thanks Brainhurts, I did read the ling, little is applicable it seems most stories of infidelity are very different from mine alike in definition only. My choices are calculated the equivalent of a gambler saving .25 a day for 3-4 months only to go gamble it away in a night while supposedly out for a game.

There is no inate right in this life we are but a culmination of our percieved realities and experiences nothing more. The kids who grew up in FLDS cults Amish, Jonestown, Taliban, etc had realities so are out of kilter to what most think is normal, yet they could see it no other way. Many still talk about those times as some of the best of their life. If never exposed to the world most live in they wouldn't have realized something was terribly their utopia's may have continued. Hence the pain, doubt, wonder, and suicideds resulting since. There is no basis for exposure helping anything or anyone except the WS's own guilty conscious. I stand by my belief that a truly repentent person if they truly do repent and moves on is all that must be done. Exposure is only useful for stopping a affair......it only brings pain as do most other hurtful revelations, that is a fact. I see the advice here is very basic as if a book makes it law. The book is just a tool.

If I said help me build a fence and everyone said go get a hammer, but my stipulation was NO HAMMER what good is it to still advise a hammer?

Hopefully prayer, christian music, aInd a contrite heart will help me get in the place I desire to be.

Best of luck to all!

No. You are wrong. We are not a culmination of "perceived realities"
There is reality. A is A.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Double life - 07/30/13 11:13 AM
My uncle lived a similar life to you.
He had a little black book with names, numbers and sex acts.
Separate bank accounts for a 30 yr marriage. Lied about how much money he made (spent most of it on escorts).
Well he was found out.
Bill Clinton was found out.
The latest General to resign was found out.
You will eventually be found out.

We aren't building a fence without hammers here. This board is here to give Marriage Builders advice.
You have made it clear that you refuse to expose yourself so I will not waste my time posting to you when there are other posters working to save their marriages.
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Double life - 07/30/13 12:05 PM
I had an executive manager years ago who had a katana hanging on his office wall. Whenever a group would get tangled up in disparate threads of contention during a strategic discussion, he'd grab it, unsheathe it, and threaten to help us separate the variables. (We ASSUMED he was joking!)

So I'm grabbing the virtual katana....

You are tripping over the dual issues of "faith" and "fidelity", using perceived inconsistencies in either to attack the pillars of each.

Since this is a marital support site, lets stay there, shall we? Here's something that might make your position more stark and, quite frankly, heinous:

Regardless of the religion, or even in the absence of religion, there is always one Supreme Being that is affected, gratified, or repulsed by your (in)fidelity, and that is......YOU.

You must live with your own choices about keeping unblemished (I almost said "sacred") your own vows and promises. If they are worthless to you, you could be an agnostic, an atheist, or the Grand Caliph of Byzantium, and you will act in ways that are inconsistent with them, should temptation and opportunity present themselves.

Trying to excuse/defend/explain the use of prostitutes on the basis of some supposed crisis of faith demonstrates little more than a pre-adolescent grasp of personal responsibility. Nor does attempting (badly) to couch those positions in what is intended to be sophisticated prose, while merely offering clouded, poorly executed, allusion - "...christianity today was non existant(sic) 100 years ago..." - work in support of your.....what? hypothesis? conclusion? question?....that marital morality is dependent on organized forms and institutions of worship.

If God is necessary to reinforce to you what is "right", as opposed to what is "holy", and you are having recent difficulty in hearing Him, then there is little hope that any of us mortals will be of aid. I wish you illumination, from some source.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Double life - 07/30/13 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
I think many want to believe it will come to light, but how? Aside from forum life so many affairs and various other transgression go unnoticed taken to the grave. Why would I believe my case would be any different?


You are trapped by this belief in secrecy. It will always make you feel like you can commit travesties and that it will be OK. The truth will set you free.

If you knew how powerful the truth is, how very regularly it comes out, you would know that keeping it a secret is not an option. You don't get to choose to stop it.

Everything has a trail. And your infidelity is so large, so selfish, so dark, that the trail is probably a mile wide. You wound and change these poor young girls and their parents. Your wife has restless dreams and blames herself for the persitent feeling of fear and distrust that she cannot explain.

No one told me of my H's affair. No evidence was uncovered which set off my suspicions.

But I knew. I knew something was wrong and the power of the truth would not let me rest. The thing that finally gave me my answer was not a tale-teller or discovered evidence. It was a facial expression. I saw an expression that gave away adultery and I knew. I then had to look quietly for evidence until I found proof. Which I got easily, because everything leaves a trail.

I pray for you to be caught if you will not confess. I pray for your wife to be released from that mysterious nagging doubt which will claim her eventually.

I pray that you will stop being a selfish little puppy, destructive in his enjoyment and thatyou will know the true value of what you are risking.

Like a thief, you stole but you want to stop without paying anything back.

If you confess to her, likely she will forgive you. If you do not, you will be caught.

Hopefully soon, because the longer you live a lie the worse you will become. Even if you stop the ONSs, you intend to continue lying and so your wife will never be truly safe with you.

I feel so, so sorry for your wife.
Posted By: LifetimeLearner Re: Double life - 07/30/13 12:26 PM

You have told us that you can't get caught and that there's no reason for your wife to know, and yet claim that you want to stop. Why? I suspect your conscience is telling you something you don't want to hear, and you want us to back you up in not listening: if others here can't philosophically debate you and put forth a convincing argument, then you'll take that as a reason it's okay to keep your current lifestyle.

Also, you're so concerned about your false image and how you'll be viewed if the truth came out that you're willing to sacrifice true fulfillment to keep that image.

I think your wife will indeed find out: she probably won't recover if she finds out in any other way except for you confessing it to her. You're living on borrowed time.

Posted By: reading Re: Double life - 07/30/13 12:58 PM
As indie said
'I pray for you to be caught if you will not confess. I pray for your wife to be released from that mysterious nagging doubt which will claim her eventually.'


Fact is, you are not bringing your whole self to the marriage.
Your wife is not receiving the intimacy possible to her if you told the truth, worked through it with her and rebuilt a real marriage.
You are not having a true, passionate love and sexual relationship built on sharing your whole self.

You created a mess of your own making.

Tell wife.

She will be shattered for sure but she can rebuild from it with time.

Don't tell wife

She will be shattered with an illusion that is simply not adding up in her heart.

Either way......you hold the burden for the mess. Whether you pay the piper or not.....you are a disaster right now.

BTW...your ONS are not hot stuff. They are debasing to both you and the OP involved. Debasing of your quality of life because you are, in reality, being cruel and hurtful to a woman and children who simply do not deserve such betrayal.

Posted By: Pius Re: Double life - 07/30/13 01:24 PM
I really found out that I had been betrayed by my wife and it was devastating. Knowing now what I know I can see the secret was burning inside of her and destroying her. I would suggest to the creator of this thread that his secret will ultimately destroy him if he doesn't come clean. His eternal destiny is at stake as well.
Posted By: brokenvase Re: Double life - 07/30/13 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
There is no basis for exposure helping anything or anyone except the WS's own guilty conscious.

Truth, like sorrow, floats.

Your wife WILL find out, sooner or later, maybe even after your death.

My husband thought he could keep his affairs secret as well.

I found out after 30 years.

If your wife finds out in any other way than you telling her the COMPLETE truth the FIRST time, she will ERASE every positive memory you think you've made, from that point back to the day you first met.

She will know that you never wanted true intimacy with her.

She will know that you thought of her as a possession you didn't want to lose, as opposed to a real person you wanted to have a relationship with.

She will know that you felt she was undeserving to know the truth about her own life.

When she does find out, send her here; others that have been placed on this path can help her heal and move on.

My condolences to your wife.

BV
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:26 PM

I am curious why you have posted this on the MB forum.


Not being sarcastic, but how many marriages have you saved your life? How many people have you successfully counseled with addiction disorders which you have mentioned?


I for one rely heavily on the expertise of the author of this site, Dr. Harley. He has 40 years experience in helping those who want help.

His success (that's right, actually helping people turn their lives around...not just counseling sessions of people just pouring their hearts out) is based on what actually WORKS vs. mainstream 'philosophies'.


Dr. Harley's approach contradicts your traditional thinking (such as exposure).


Why do you think that is? Who do you think has the credentials and TANGIBLE results to back these things up?



Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
There is no basis for exposure helping anything or anyone except the WS's own guilty conscious. Exposure is only useful for stopping a affair......it only brings pain as do most other hurtful revelations, that is a fact.


Ok. I will play along.


So, based on these 2 ideas you have alone....I would say those would be 2 EXCELLENT reasons to expose. Wouldn't you? 1) Stopping the A and 2) WS having a guilty conscious??? Not a bad start!

However, you are very wrong. Dr. Harley's reasons come from a place of credibility. 40 years and thousands of recovered couples type of credibility.


Exposure only brings pain? Why would you say that.


Isn't it the Adultery what brings the pain? Isn't the truth just the truth?


Your thought process is coming from a mindset that we have seen hundreds of time on this site from WS's.


Its called wanting to avoid the consequences of your actions and choices.

I would imagine that if you had been a faithful spouse and just found out that your W had been lying and deceiving YOU all these years, you would be singing a different tune.

Posted By: alis Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:41 PM
Okay, so you are a fraud. Now what? Do what you tell your child when they act like an entitled little brat.... you say "knock it off" or whatever. It's not worthy of imitating Socrates, it's a matter of "quit doing what yer doing!"
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Double life - 07/30/13 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
Exposure would obviously change that for the worse imo. My daily routine is and life is very textbook. Make coffee, wake the wife up, wake up the kids, make breakfast, give tons of hugs be silly, and we go to work. Txt, flirt, joke, talk about our day, date nights, family trips. We are considered the lucky ones 19 years and counting. The things you describe sound great in the principle based theoretical world of how you may wish it to be, but the REALITY is everything is pretty awesome. I can almost guarantee you would be envious if you were a neighbor or family member. Since you know my secret you would never admit such a thing and of course my secret being revealed would change that.


How sad that your entire life is a lie.... How does that feel?

Envious? uh, I think not. Most of us here are much more wise than you give credit.

We know too well to not judge a book by it's cover. Your seemingly 'great' life is a ruse.


The truth eventually comes out.

So, when you are on your death bed and your family is all around you (if you are that lucky) and you are reflecting on your life
I assume you are going to

'wish you just would have had more ONS's?

wish you would have just spend more time away from your family?

Wish you would have just lied a little more?

-----

How can you sleep at night? Seriously....
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Double life - 07/30/13 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
How can you sleep at night? Seriously....


We know how he sleeps at night. How all waywards sleep.

At first they dont, but then they become hardened. We've all seen that.

The wayward thinks flirting/texting/admiration is OK. But keeps it a secret. Then they get physical action. Still a secret.

Then their conscience bothers them, so out that goes. If they still want to keep it a secret, they cant afford a conscience.

Their eyes get cold, they don't care about others' pain.

We've all seen it here.

Pep has written about this process in the Deception - Hardening - Destruction thread, here

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=2529053&an=

No man or woman can do these sorts of deeds without changing how they think and behave. And yet they think no one will ever notice!

It would be hilarious if it were not so tragic.

Why just think of the lies he must tell her, with a smooth smiling face.

Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Double life - 07/30/13 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
It would be hilarious if it were not so tragic.

Why just think of the lies he must tell her, with a smooth smiling face.

I will never forget the total devastation to my mind, body and soul when I found out my FWW had been lying and deceiving me for 9 months.

After dday, I read a lot about PTSD and my symptoms lined up almost perfect to them. I never knew I could endure such trauma and physically survive. Some days I was just hanging on by a thin string and felt like it was going to snap at any moment.

In terms of the truth finally coming out, I would not have wanted it any other way. What I mean is, I am SO glad I found out the Truth.

This poster and his W are both living a lie. She is making decision about her future with him without all the information. So sad.

He doesn't realize that the most hurtful thing he is doing to his W is NOT the ONS's...it is the lying and deceiving. ---These are the things that he is going to have the most difficult time reconciling. Not the physical part of his adultery's.

If only this poster could grasp the magnitude of the pain and destruction he is creating by his CHOICES.

However, accountability and empathy are seldom qualities adopted by a WS during their Adultery. Blame shifting, skirting responsibility, making excuses why they don't do what they KNOW is the right thing...goes hand in hand..

An addiction is a powerful thing. This poster is so na�ve as to how accountability and recovery actually occur it is astonishing.


To those lurking...this is a great lesson to anyone actively in an A as to how someone in total denial thinks. Justification after Justification.





Posted By: Logans_Run Re: Double life - 07/30/13 07:25 PM
I have two thoughts.

1. This is for real. The OP comes across as arrogant. I pray that he confesses all to the BW and aid in her healing.

2. This is a troll on an agenda.
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Double life - 07/30/13 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
2. This is a troll on an agenda.

This has definitely entered my mind....am I feeding the troll???
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Double life - 07/30/13 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
I never knew I could endure such trauma and physically survive. Some days I was just hanging on by a thin string and felt like it was going to snap at any moment.

In terms of the truth finally coming out, I would not have wanted it any other way. What I mean is, I am SO glad I found out the Truth.


Unless you have been through it, you don�t understand the pain of not knowing and the relief of finally knowing. I searched for days to get evidence. When I got it, it WAS devastating, but it was a blessed relief simply to finally know WHAT the mystery was - and that it wasn�t my fault. I would have forgiven him if he'd had a clue how to be honest, but it wasn�t a concept he could grasp.

Originally Posted by Logans_Run
This is a troll on an agenda.


Hmmm, maybe. But his story is a common one and even if it's not true, the advice given here would help someone.

With that in mind, Dr Harley has the following advice for those who think not telling their wife about pornography/ONSs/contrast effect is protecting her. I think his words are 'selfish and foolish'

If the wayward is sex addict he needs the help that only comes from asking for it. If he's simply 'selfish and foolish' it's because his secrecy has allowed him to be.

In other words, no matter what the cause, honesty is the cure.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
One of the best ways to determine if your spouse is a sex addict or merely being selfish and foolish is to ask why he or she persists in a sexual behavior that is known to offend you. An addict will express the compulsive aspects of the problem and have a deep feeling of guilt for doing it. He or she may even describe something like an "out of body" experience, knowing it's wrong but can't stop.

But you may hear the answer I hear from most husbands who view pornography, a sexual behavior that's offensive to most wives: "There's no harm in it as long as my wife doesn't find out." They don't do it because they feel compelled -- they do it because it's entertaining. What these husbands do is consistent with their general philosophy of marriage, which is that it's sometimes healthy to engage in independent behavior, and that the Policy of Joint Agreement is ridiculous.

Men who view pornography, frequent strip clubs, and even have sexually explicit chats with women on the internet don't usually fit the description of an addict. They readily admit (at least to me) that they violate the Policy of Joint Agreement because they believe that their wives do not have the right to dictate what they can and can't do. In other words, they're being selfish and foolish. Granted, someone who starts out viewing pornography purely for entertainment can become sexually addicted. When they're caught, although they sincerely agree to end the practice, they find themselves unable to stop. It's similar to the addiction of an affair, where the relationship may have begun as a friendship with sexual overtones, and eventually becomes compulsive. .
Posted By: GloveOil Re: Double life - 07/31/13 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by TwoSided
Not a big fan of that advice! I'm a realist and like most things in life learning of really hurtful information of any kind is rarely good, benfeficial, or even fruitful!

May it be addiction, daily porn, lieing, cheating, gambling, alcoholism, rape, pedofilia, etc etc. Think of any politician, marriage, religious figure, relative where YOU THOUGHT of them in a better light after their indiscretions were made known to all? Can't think of any can you? These aren't married woman these are college aged woman. Like I said pre planned ONS 2-3 times a year. It's a subculture that is thriving and gaining in popularity. It's the fascination with youth that is hard to give up.
So you KNOW all the answers! You're WAY smarter than any of us here who've broken with our past selfish behavior. What do you need us for? You've got it all figured out, haven't you? The secret isn't to BE good -- rather, the secret is to maintain a facade so that you LOOK good! Of COURSE! Why didn't I think of that? YOU have the inside line on reality -- the rest of us who aren't part of your "subculture" are the delusional ones. We're blessed that you're here to educate us.

All sarcasm aside, TwoSided, here's a true story (and bear in mind, I'm actually not yelling at ya at all -- rather, I'm whispering, as a friend might do over a cup of coffee, so that you hear me): It was only when I came face-to-face with the real potential consequences of my affair -- that is, after I told my wife, the woman to whom I'd promised to forsake all others, about it -- that I had a path out of it. And truth be told (so as not to give myself any undeserved credit), I only 'fessed up when my hand was forced (by the other woman's husband finding out about us). But... getting the truth out staked me to a place from which I couldn't retreat without losing my self-respect, without losing my family, the things I held dearest. Getting the truth out enabled me to break free of the pattern of horribly selfish behavior into which I'd descended, and truth has me a better marriage today than before the affair. And, truth be told, I AM a better person than 5 years ago, before the affair. That's the case regardless of what anyone may think. And frankly, I don't give a damn what others may think.

But (still whispering here), you're not really looking to change your conduct, are ya? So far, you're only looking to avoid facing the consequences of it. My friend, you could show up in a 3-acre bowling alley and still not find two balls to string together -- that's how much of a chicken**** you are right now. (That's not really a judgement, because I don't get paid a cent to judge ya, my friend -- it's just a bit of, shall we say, realism for a realistically-minded guy like you to consider.) So my advice to you would be to go away until you get serious about wanting to change. If/when that happens, give me a shout, and I'll be here to help.
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