Hi all, I hope someone can give me some direction and advice...

My husband and I have been married for 21 years. 15 years ago I had a very brief affair with a coworker. My husband and I decided to stay together and work on our marriage.
We had our 3rd child, bought a house and things seemed ok for many years.

About 6 years ago my husband told me that as hard as he tried, he just doesn't love me anymore and was willing to stay or the kids. I could leave if I chose to but decided to stay
hoping things would work out.

This past January my husband and I were intimate for the first time in 5 years. Things
Had been well between us and he initiated this, expressing that he
Wanted to see if we could put things back together and he could love me again.
We have been having an intimate relationship for the past 8 months.

Yesterday he told me that he realized quickly after this started
In January that he would never love me again and had only been having sex with me
Because it was fun and it made the house peaceful and less stressful.

I feel completely deceived and used. I told him he should have told me 8 months ago that his feelings hadn't changed, that for the past 8 months I thought we were working towards a better marriage, had I known his true feelings I wouldn't have had sex with him, I love him dearly and as much as I enjoyed it, we clearly wanted two different things.

I'm angry, hurt and upset. I can't continue a sexual relationship with him knowing its
Only for fun and he doesn't love/care about me. Although I made a huge mistake years ago by having my affair, I know I deserve better and I'm not the same person/wife

What do I do????.

I see 2 choices for you here. You can ask your husband if he wants to have a safe, romantic and fulfilling marriage with you by following the basic concepts here (have you read the concepts yet?).

Or you can separate from him until he is willing to commit to follow the marriage builders program using the basic concepts.

Otherwise, you will be stuck in a marriage that makes you miserable.

Thx you for responding-

I know my options are few. I guess it doesn't matter that I feel crushed and deceived by him. Maybe after what I did 15 years ago is only part of what I deserved. In hindsight the signs were all there, he never wanted to be seen with me around friends, wouldn't take me to lunch, etc, but would then come home and get romantic and I fed right into it thinking that he really had feelings for me...I feel so foolish.

I would be lying if I said I hope that one day he sees me differently and realizes how great a wife and life he has today. We also have 3 kids, although I feel that he will stick around until they are all out of the house and then leave.

I feel awful....

Call the Harley's and do a phone session.

Lacole,

My husband and I have been married for 21 years. 15 years ago I had a very brief affair with a coworker.

Please read up here on MB about meeting your spouses needs, you may not even know what they are. I would encourage you to read the BH threads to get an idea how your BH felt about your affair.

It really sounds like he never got over your affair, men can hold on to resentment for decades, but on the surface seem to have gotten over it.

Did you answer all his questions about the affair, or did your BH feel he was never going to get the full truth and just gave up?

Did you trickle truth your BH, that is where you admit to details about the affair over months or years, each new admission setting the clock back to zero.

Did your BH ever confront the OM and was the OM's wife, OMW told?

God Bless
Gamma

lacole, is it possible that your husband is having an affair of his own?

Hi thr-

I pretty much addressed it head on, answered his questions and talked about it as long as he needed to. He also confronted the OM who was not married.

He says that he has forgiven me, but will never forget or trust me again. He just doesn't love me anymore, he cares about me to an extent but that's it.

I'm not making light of what I did, it's the one thing in my entire life that I would take back if I could. I just don't know what to do anymore, sometimes I don't feel worthy of someone that loves me because if what I did. I love my husband, I don't know what else to do. I did tell him that I could not continue to have an intimate relationship with him as it's just to difficult, he is there for fun and I'm there with emotional feelings for him. I also don't want to feel used and disrespected, which is exactly what the past 8 months made me feel like.

I want to meet his needs but this is the 2nd time he has told me he no Longer loves me, seems he must be pretty certain and clear. He closed his heart to me, I have offered counciling but he is not interested.

Seems my options are not good...

Hi thr- you know, idk.

There is a coworker that he seems to text more then normal, I asked him about it and he said that sometimes it's about work and other times it's just banter back and forth.

I don't think he would have an affair, but also feel like he thinks I had no right to question him or what he is doing considering my history with an affair years ago.

Honestly, not good...

You have every right to be suspicious. Just because YOU had an affair, doesn't mean it's okay for him to have one.

What spyware do you have in place?

Also, have you read this?

Start Here First-Welcome Aboard

I completely agree with you, but he won't see it that way. He doesn't feel I have a right to ask him what he is doing or who he is talking to. He is very angry at me, resentful and bitter. We are basically house mates and I'm relying him to help with the bills as I'm out of work currently, although desperately searching...

Funny, things seemed so much better when our relationship was intimate. He was very chatty, accommodating and happy. I find out that he had no intentions of ever reconciling with me and refuse to have sex with him and his whole demeanor changes.

None, just checking his text/call logs on the cell phone site. I asked him who is was that he was texting all the time and he told me.

Any other suggestions?

What EPs have you put in place?

How have you affair proofed your marriage?

Have you seen this?
Can We Just Forgive and Forget?

We can help him fall in love with you again. You guys are playing pool blindfolded, but if you take the correct steps, you can fall in love again. Check this out: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8114_plan.html

He's probably having his own affair. Most men don't just stop having sex for 5 years.

Hi all...

My marriage is on the verge of collapse..when I think about it, maybe it has been that way for sometime...

15 years ago I had a brief affair, my husband found out, and we decided to move forward and try and work things out. We had a 3rd child and bought a new home as well. We never did go to marriage counseling as this is something my husband does not believe in. The affair was the worst mistake of my life, the one thing I would take back if I could. It was wrong on all levels and I own it 100%.

5 years ago, my husband came to me and told me he no longer loved me and didn't think he ever could again. He just cant get over the affair. We both decided to just live peacefully for the kids and also for financial reasons we stayed together although there was no intimacy for 5 years. This past January things became physical again, things has been going really well and my husband said he just wanted to move forward and see what would happen. The past 9 months have been really good, I thought we were creating a new foundation, slowly but surely he would realize what a great wife I had been and grow to love me again.

Well, a few days ago, he told me that he would never love me and had known this back in January when the intimacy started, but things had been going so well that he didn't want to tell me his feelings. As you can imagine, I was so hurt. I felt deceived for 9 months, like it was all pretend. He knew I was emotionally invested and he was not, but he kept going on.

Part of me feels like I deserved it after what I did 15 years ago. He told me he forgave me for the affair long ago, but when I think about it, he hasn't. He has reminded me every day for 15 years that Im not worthy of love, he has withheld affection, emotional support, etc,., an ever constant reminder of what I did and that I would do no better. He doesn't feel badly about me feeling this way and told me had I not had the affair non of this would have happened so I can only blame myself for feeling this way.

I asked him if he would go to counseling and again he said no. I know that I cant want this marriage or work on it alone, nor will I beg him to stay. He knows I am willing to work on the marriage.

In addition, I recently found him texting a women at work who is 20 years younger then him (he is 50). I asked him about this and he said they are just friends, someone he talks to about movies, etc...I don't know if I should believe it nor does it matter. I stopped looking at his call/texting logs as its just too painful. I have also stopped crying and displaying weakness to him as this only allows him control.

In addition, I feel like he has this "blank slate" to treat me anyway he wants, his thinking seems to be there is nothing worse then what I did (the affair) so anything that isn't that bad he justifies to himself. Its ok to him as long as its not an affair, and even if he had one, he would probably justify that as well.

I just feel like I have no options. Im not working, so financially I cant leave at the moment, I had 3 kids and need to plan this out with sensitivity to them.

Please help....

Why have you started a new thread, lacole? Why aren't you updating your thread in SaA?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=169412&Number=2757434#Post2757434

I wasn't sure if I had posted the original thread under the correct topic. Im new to this..please forgive me...

It does sound like a lot of time, but honestly, I don't think he was...sounds crazy, I know...

There's nothing to forgive, lacole! I was concerned that perhaps you didn't like the advice you got on the first thread, and were looking for someone to tell you something different in this forum. I understand now that this wasn't the case.

If you ever feel that your thread is in the wrong place, then click "notify" and ask the moderators to move it to where you want it. However, your original thread seems to be in exactly the correct place.

lacole, you might not be able to prove today that he has been having an affair for some or all of that five years, but you should look at the relationship between him and the woman he texts as being to some degree an emotional affair. (It might even be physical.)

I did read the whole thread but I can't remember: is she a co-worker? An old girlfriend? What is her relationship to him? Is she married, or living with someone? How old is she?

Has your H told you his intentions with regard to your marriage? He no longer loves you or wants to rebuild emotional intimacy with you, but has he said he wants to divorce, or is he suggesting that you stay together for the kids, with a sex life because he likes it, but knowing that the marriage is effectively over?

Your courses of action differ depending on whether he is having an affair and wants out, or isn't having one (which I wouldn't believe) and wants to stick around until the kids are grown.

Hi- well it appears this women is a coworker of his. She is 29, (hub is 50) with a baby and. Live in boyfriend according to him.

He claims they are only friends but line you said, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes intimate or already has been.

Basically, he made it clear he doesn't love me, never will again and we should stay together for the time being for the kids and for the immediate financial reasons (im out of work but actively searching). I made it clear that their would be no more sex, although I'm sure he would have been fine if it continued. I just can't/won't be used and disrespected like that for one more day.

I think I know my options deep down, just want to hear the thoughts of others.

Also, how to I treat him through all this?

I'm so hurt and angry, but don't want him to get the best I me anymore. Walking around crying or sad will only give him control and make me feel worse about it all.

Anybody have advice...hold my head high? Be respectful and kind?
One day I can only hope he looks back and realizes how good he had...

Lacole,

Tell the live in boyfriend, he needs to know there is a man cutting in on his relationship. Your H may be fogged out with some fantasy that he can somehow help this girl with her personal problems. Show the boyfriend the phone logs.

In any event as long as your H is attached to this girl your relationship will slide backwards, you need to end this affair with exposure.

This is not good for your H to be communicating with a girl that young.

God Bless
Gamma

I don't know the boyfriend, I don't know anything about her/him other than what my H told me.

I have actually considered hiring a private investigator, get some evidence he can twist or deny or excuse away which he is very good at.

You know, I have felt badly for 15 years thinking I didn't deserve love or a good marriage for what I did, I accepted it cause I thought that was all I was worthy of.

I can't stay with someone who doesn't think I'm worthy. He will have to go at some point.

Lacole,

Have you tried looking them up on facebook? Oftentimes easier than you think.

God Bless
Gamma

Do you know where this ho lives? You'll find her boyfriend there.

You deserve a great marriage, lacole. And you can have that. But first you're going to have to kill this affair. You don't deserve to live a life in subserviance because you made a mistake. You deserve better than that.

I have no idea where this person lives, but will work at deciding how to handle it and what to do....

I can kill this affair but in the end can't make my husband love me. He can walk away from this affair and feel exactly the same way as he does today.
I will not beg,plead or cry to make him stay.

But I would rather be alone then be with soneone who doesn't see my worth and can love and cherish me.

You do not deserve ongoing punishment for an affair 15y ago if you have done your part for recovery. Know that.

Perhaps you husband has not renewed his love for you. He had a right to opt out. He doesn't have a right to abuse you. Years of using the past affair to hurt and control you is abuse.

If he will not stop punishing you and work with you to restore love, you should leave him.

He will not love you as long as he is in an EA or PA. Dr. Harley states we can only love one person at a time and if your husbands love bank is open to someone else to make deposits then it is closed to you. He is stuck in the fog of the fantasy and therefore doesn't realize what you do or the love you are offering.

Snoop and find out who the OW is and expose. If nothing else the OW's boyfriend deserves to know his girlfriend is cheating on him. He probably has no clue that he is being made a fool of at least help give him a fighting chance.

This is partially correct. This post is correct that your H should not hold you hostage but the part I don't agree with is 'punishment' for your past affair. Like it or not, the A has changed your life and marriage forever and you will be responsible along with your H (if you choose to work things out) to protect your M from an A for the rest of your lives. If you have not put the MB principles in place and completely 'Affair Proofed' your marriage then you've been living a false recovery and that is why your H has never moved on. Read, learn and implement the MB principles and you will have a shot of saving your marriage, if not you more than likely need to end the M.

Can I do these principals alone? And improve my chances?
H will never do these at this point or be interested in hearing...

It is not why he has abused/punished her, though, nor is it why he's had an affair. There are no excuses for either of those behaviors.

We need to be very careful to hold Dr. Harley's line about angry outbursts, abuse, punishment, and affairs: "reasons," but no excuses - the solution is to learn to avoid the offending behavior, not put the blame on your spouse for giving you a "reason." We need to be very careful not to give anyone (particularly a wife) the impression that her behavior caused someone else's abuse.

Not without combating HIS affair.

I hope you aren't disagreeing with what I quoted above from ItCanGetBetter, txstunnedman - because that is exactly what Dr. Harley would say.

And even then, not for long - Dr. Harley recommends that women try that approach only for a MAXIMUM of three weeks. After that time the pain is usually so great that a woman is at risk of developing serious mental, emotional, and physical health issues: post traumatic stress disorder, immune system disorders, etc.

Dr. Harley explains this on his show, Aug 8, 2013:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=05141
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=05142
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=05143
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=05144
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=05145
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=05146

I agree with that part. What I disagree with is the fact that her affair 15 years ago is not/should not be a factor in their current relationship state if it was never properly addressed. We don't know the specifics of how they dealt with the initial affair, if they never had true recovery (which is really sounds like) then it still needs to be addressed and the H is still the BH in this case. Those feelings never go away without the just compensation, if the husband was never provided just compensation then it still needs to be given. It just doesn't go away, there is no statute of limitations when it comes to infidelity.

And you are correct, there should be no abuse ever. If H didn't want the relationship he should end it. The BW should also realize if just compensation was never provided for her A then the 'recovery' she thought they had was not real because their marriage was never 'affair proofed'.

You need to ask the mods to merge this new thread with your old thread. To Surviving An Affair.

It sounds as if your BH has started a EA with this co worker. Your BH resumption of SF could of been brought about the feelings his EA has stirred up in him. Maybe he has gone PA now and that is why he stopped SF with you.

It sounds as if you have address what you did in the past and what your BH is doing now.

Hi all - just as a follow up, i told my husband yesterday that what has done the past 15 years has been abuse. He actually admitted that he felt that he could say, treat, act anyway he wanted to and would justify that anything he did was never worse then what I did. He owned it and seems quite proud of himself.

Also, he doesn't want to talk about the affair, the broken marriage prior to that.
He really has no plans to change his behavior.

Our renewed intimacy started almost a year ago, long before the coworker came into the scene.

I have tried addressing the past and now...he doesn't want to talk about either one. He has a take it or leave it attitude.

I don't seem to have many options except to leave. I can't stay, worth so much more then his bad treatment....

So will you go into Plan B?

Have you written Dr Harley?

At this point you need to find out if he is involved in an affair.
Can you hire a private detective?

To be honest, I don't know if it really matters if it's just texting or a full blown affair. It's just the last traumatic situation of so many these past 15 years, I lost count.

I stood by my H through some awful situations that he caused us and our family, standing by partly cause I thought I owed it to him after my affair. He stood by me I stand by him....but really he didn't stand by me positively, he stood by me to abuse me. Over and over and I stayed. It was 15 years of punishing me and keeping control.

I asked him last night if he would stop texting this other person, he said I just needed to stop looking an watching what he does and it won't bother me.

Just because you had an affair does not give him license to abuse you.

Hire a PI, snoop, whatever, just find out.

Update:

All text messaging to/from this women has stopped.
Which I find suspicious as they were texting for hours daily up to the day before.

My gut is telling me that my husband is trying to hide it now...how else can they be communicating????

Any ideas besides calling and texting???

There could be a secret affair phone. They could do what my H and his OW did and only communicate through the workplace.

The thing is, you know it is happening and your H has made it quite clear that his relationship with this woman will not stop and that he can do as he likes because of your affair. He has also said he isn't interested in a relationship with you. Therefore, you need to take him at his word and tell him to move out. He is still legally responsible for maintaining the children and paying the rent or mortgage. You need to go into Plan B and remove yourself from his cruelty until and unless this affair stops.

How old are your children now? Do you earn an income?

Sugar, she is looking for work, not sure of the current ages of her 3 children.

lacole - Have you read "Start Here First" in this forum? There is alot of useful info. I agree with BH and Sugar Cane regarding Plan B. You need to start preparing for this. You also need to expose WH A.

I to had an affair and after a few years my husband left with another woman. I was devastated but at the end of the day I felt the weight of the world fall off my shoulders in the guilt department.

You are worth much much much more than the abuse you are receiving. You are being punished excessively for an error in judgement , and one you have acknowledged, stopped etc.

I have to wonder what your husband would behave like if you decided enough was enough. Get strong, start living , do things outside of the house, refuse to hear anymore crap from him. walk away. Stop looking at his phone, it gives him power to know he is hurting you.

Take away his power AND lets see what you are left with. If its still not the man he once was , then you have to decide if it is something you can live with or not !

TAKE BACK SOME CONTROL IN YOUR LIFE. What we did was cruel and wrong but we did it, owned it, stopped it , apologised for it, learned from it and if that's not enough then ......

Its been 15 years since my affair and things have never been the same...

Funny thing, out sex life is the only thing not suffering. My husband still wants sex which at this point I find demeaning and disrespectful.

I'm not worthy of a lunch date or anything else, but he wants me to have sex with him...I feel so used and cheap.

I hoped that the sex would bring his closer, but it only makes me feel worse and shows him he can continue to not see my worth.

UPDATE:

Something was telling me something wasn't right between my husband and this OW. - this past Sunday, I drove by his office parking lot in a whim and saw the two kissing. I let them both know that I was there and I saw them.

Of course my husband tried worming his way out of it.

I am meeting with my lawyer in Friday. Between the 15 years of emotional abuse and this affair, I'm done!!

Husband doesn't think I will see it through. Laughable.

lacole, it was clear that he was having an affair, but I'm glad/sorry to hear that you have confirmation. Now you have knowledge and can proceed.

What was his response when you busted him?

Have you exposed his affair?

Are you preparing for Plan B?

Lacole, can you get an exposure plan together?

Regardless of whether you want to recover the marriage, exposure is a good idea. Your children do not deserve this woman in their lives and you need to get rid of her.

Have you read up on exposure and do you know how to do it?

Exposure in the workplace is appropriate here.

Hugs.

I would also expose your own A if it was not done. Remove that stick from his hand by owning it yourself.

Any attempt to blame your past A should also be met with a zero tolerance 'Listen, Buster' response.

For the full 'Listen, Buster', approach advised for Former Wayward Wives with abusive husbands see here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5006_qa.html

Funny-

He denied it, said I hadn't caught him doing anything!! He clearly underestimated me and never thought I would show up at his job on a Sunday!

He was also angry, which I didn't get!! He was the one having an affair, yet He's mad at me???

Jerk.

Way ahead of you...

I have already told numerous friends/family members my affair and have begun to remove that ONE thing he had over me. He no longer has control. I don't care who knows!

I have told friends and family not only about his affair BUT the 15 years of emotional abuse and disrespect he had given me for the past 15 years as my punishment.

They have all told me to go. As fast as possible.

Not that it matters an I know my attention should be put elsewhere...but...what r the odds he will stay with the OW?

He is 50 and she is a 29 yr old single mom with a baby...??
Do these things last??

I wouldnt tell your husband about meeting with the lawyer on Friday.
If you do not want to save your marriage, Dr Harley would encourage you to have no further direct contact with your husband during separation and divorce.
You should find a third party Intermediary to handle communication and child exchanges.

According to Dr Harley most affairs die within 6 months of exposure.
Only 5% last longet than 2 years

No they do not! 95 per cent of A's end within two years of exposure. There is no guarantee that he will be a faithful man at that point though. Some are, some want a fresh OW.

Do you know how to expose them?

Lacole, I would like to see you get your exposure plan in place, and then prepare for Plan B.

I highly recommend Plan B for your situation. The link in my signature explains how to do it properly.

Whether you choose to divorce or recover, Plan B is the best route to sanity.

I have no plans to tell my husband I'm going to see a lawyer. He doesn't need I know that.

I did tell him to leave the house immediately, BUT, my friend who is a lawyer told me that unless my husband is beating me, I can't force him out of the home. I can ask him to leave and then he can go if he chooses. My husband told me he is looking for an appt.

This all happened last Sunday. We have not spoken a word to eachother. I don't do his laundry, cook, etc.

AND I have begun to expose him, his affair and his abuse.

What r the chances he will try and stay in the marriage once he sees that this OW isn't all she was cracked upon be??

He said he no longer loved me and hadn't for years.

I really wish lawyers would stop telling people that. A lawyer told me that and it is only a technical detail. If you kick your cheating husband out of the house - nobody is going to stop you. No mob squad is going to show up and make you take him back in. In fact many people will cheer.

I changed my locks. No one stopped me. I had his stuff delivered to his mothers. No one stopped me. I had my family come to stay in case he showed up and made a scene. He did not dare.

Waywards have no interest in forcing their way back into a home full of disapproving relatives.

Based on what the lawyer had told me, I was prepared for him to break in the house. Even if he had he done that, I would simply have called the police. They may not have backed me up but it is likely they would have. In any case waywards are chickens who are too scared to try.

Bottom line - he would have had to go through my family, his family, and a visit from the police to get back in the house before I had been the one to move out. Lawyer or no lawyer.

Also, in Plan B, you make it clear in your letter he can come back ANY TIME HE LIKES. So long as he has broken up with OW. So you are not 'forcing' him out at all.



What is your exposure plan? Are you using the templates here and contacting everyone on the suggested list of people? Have you exposed to your children?

They all say that. Here's the basic wayward script, I made up a lsit of top ten lies in 2011 in a thread I called 'Never take the word of a wayward". Many people who are former waywards and in happy marriages today said all of the following and today don't remember saying any of this stuff.

See number 4.

Update...it's been two weeks since I discovered without a doubt that my H was having an affair. Women is 29, he is 50.

He hasn't apologized to my face, or sat and talked to me about it. He sent me a little text sort of saying he was sorry but nothing more. Whether we were to stay together or not, I deserved more then a text apology. He seems to want things to be "normal" in the house. Tells me what happened wasn't an affair??!! - he is downplaying it, to remove guilt, questions, etc I guess.

He said he didn't have the courage to divorce all these years, I guess a 29 year old with a baby have him the courage.

I know it shouldn't matter, but he doesn't deserve happiness with this girl. I want him to regret what he did, to see how much he has lost.....

Have you exposed the affair to the world?

Getting there....have told many friends/family....still more to go...

For clarification, the most effective exposure is "nuclear exposure"
It is important you finish your exposure TODAY

Won't change his wanting a divorce....

Actually exposure can change a lot of things

He claims he has wanted a divorce for years and never had the courage to do it....

Every single wayward says gibberish statements like that. We all heard this before and many have saved their marriages regardless of any such statements. Some even accuse this spouses of phisical abuse. That's why we call them Waywards, exposure is your best bet, at this stage you have nothing to loose.

Yep, mine said the same thing right here on these boards. It's bull. It's their way of rewriting the marriage to justify their actions to themselves.

So do they ever regret saying those things? Once the divorce papers are served do they come to realize they were wrong in thinking that is what they wanted or is that just what the wives want to believe to make it easier....

Well, mine did though we never got as far as divorce papers. Things were rough for us before, I took my share of the blame for the way our marriage was, but I made a lot of changes to be the wife he needed. But his decision to have an affair is 100% his to own.

The plan that Dr Harley has developed has the best chance of bringing a wayward spouse back into the marriage.
This is thoroughly detailed in the book Surviving An Affair.
When a spouse is in "the fog" (a term meaning irrational thinking and behavior) then the spouse may not consider all the consequences of their actions. Some spouses do crazy things.

In your case, your husband may have desired a divorce for years because he was unhappy. If we do not fill our spouses "love banks" then they will become unhappy because their needs are not being met.

That's why Dr Harley emphasises restoring Romantic Love and maintaining romantic love after an affair and for the life of the marriage. His program muat be followed to accomplish this (Policy of Joint Agreement, Undivided Attention, etc)

The thing is that you can't make your spouse regret things and change their decisions you can only control your actions and behaviour in the hope that it will effect the fantasy land they are in when they are having an affair.

It's like waywards become figurines in a snow globe, they are in a fantasy bubble, they can see the world outside but it's distorted. Exposure is the bullet that shatters the snow globe and brakes up this fantasy land helping them see more clearly. Your job is to be on the other side helping them back to reality but ultimately the decision to come back to reality is theirs and theirs alone.

What is stopping you from exposing? If you believe he is set on divorce you have nothing to loose.

I am exposing...can't get to everyone in one day....I have done quite abit already...

And to a previous poster, our romantic life was great, sex life great , or so I thought...he won't talk to me about the affair so I have no idea why it happened.. Emotional I guess. His self esteem is low at times, this young girl came in and made him feel smart, funny and attractive. He only showed her the parts he wanted, where I had seen everything, good and bad, over 30 years.

There is only one reason affairs happen and that's low boundaries.

If you don't put boundaries in place anyone is supceptible to an affair.

There are people with perfect spouses who have affairs because they didn't protect themselves against them. For example opposite sex friendships can Easley escalate into affairs, if you spend nights apart there are opportunities for an affair, if you are discuss your marital issues with a person of the opposite sex that's an invitation for an affair.

Why after two weeks had he not apologized? Or say down and talked about it wth me?

We have been married for 21 years, total of 30.
3 kids....don't at the least I deserve that?

We have only communicated through text. He avoids my questions, spins them or brushes them off.

The affair was hurtful enough, now this..

Lacole,
either you are in plan A, or in plan B.
In plan A you are the ideal wife and be easy to get along with to remind him how good life could be with you.
In plan B you have no contact with him at all. If the only contact yyou have with him is via text, plan A might not be a viable option and you should move to plan B.

How to plan B.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787

how to write a plan B letter.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2558482

I'm so angry and hurt...it's been almost 3 weeks since I discovered my husbands affair and he refuses to discuss it and won't apologize.

I don't want to hear right now that I should be in plan A or B. I have been married for 21 years, 3 kids, buried a son and both our moms an he can't even look me in the eye and apologize!!

I had an affair 15 years ago and he punished me for 15 years. Reminded me all the time and never let me forget what I did. Now that te show is on the other foot, he doesn't want to talk about and tells me instead to focus on the state I our marriage and not his affair.

He is still seeing the OW and continues to justify it to himself. I hate him for hurting me, hate him for punishing me for years only to do exactly the same thing he punished me for!!

Sadly the mindset of such things is "I have the green light to do it since YOU did it. And mine was caused by yours so I am not guilty AT ALL!"

So do you want to hear about Dr. Harley's MB plan to recovering from infidelity?

I get his mindset, he needs to justify it. But doesn't mean it hurts any less or it's ok that he is with the OW.

He did some pretty awful things to me over the years and used my affair as his get out of jail free card. Always looking down in me and reminding me who the honest and faithful one was...

He doesn't care that I'm hurting now, doesn't think he needs to answer questions or apologize.

I know I need to focus on me, but I hope he is miserable regrets it one day. He is loosing his marriage, family, nothing will be the same for him....I hope the OW is worth it....

Did you expose? Are you having him leave?

Yes and yes.

When will he be leaving?

Lacole, it sounds like you need to get into plan b soon. Remove yourself from the equation and you will start to feel better. A wayward will not apologize when they are still foggy and making justifications. Write a plan b letter telling him that you would be willing to work on having a romantic and safe marriage but only if he will go no contact with the ow for life and agrees to follow the MB program.

Also, stop blaming yourself for his affair. Whether you had had one or not, his loose boundaries would have still gotten him involved with someone else and he would be blaming you for it anyway. That's what they do.

Stop floundering. What are you doing to go into plan b?

***EDIT***
Sin is sin, so his behavior is NOT accpetable.

***EDIT***
Your only hope is MB

***EDIT***

Firstly, I have owed my affair 100% for the past 15 years. Never blamed soneobe else, answered his questions, talked about it whenever H wanted to..anything to make him feel better. I offered marriage counciling many times over the years and he refused...he chose no sex for 5 years, not me. I did not sweep this u see the rug, I wanted more then anything to do whatever we could to make it better and he chose not to...

What he did discover over the past 15 years is that he got use for himself out of my affair. He used it against me over and over, excusing his own bad choices and hurts. He never had to own his own stuff cause he always said his hurts were never worse then what I did...if he truly forgave me, he would not have been able to remind me of my affair over the years, he wouldn't have a "get out of free jail card" for life....I allowed him to hurt me for years because I thought I deserved it for what I did...

I don't expect to be coddled and come across as a victim,
We both made our choices, but how we each handled them is very different.

Lacole, I would just ignore locard. He/she has only posted 5 times and only to make waves by the looks of how many times he's been edited!

How are you doing?

***EDIT***

A reminder that the purpose of this forum is to help posters with Marriage Builders concepts. Please familiarize yourself with MB concepts before posting to others in need. Thank you

How am I doing?
Good days an bad...

Still even today, as my H continues with his affair and considering all if his baggage from that past 21 years, he continues to put me down and insult me. Judging my character?? What is wrong with this person??

Is he deflecting? Why is he putting me down??? Insult me??

Actually, what he's doing is called projection. He knows deep down what he's doing is wrong and goes against everything he used to subscribe to. But now that he's neck deep in the crap that he used to abhor, in order to justify his actions, he has to find an 'reason' for them. And that reason is you. He needs justification.

But it's really not you. Right now, you're nothing more than his mirror image. In order for his mind to accept what he is doing, he has to find a target for his aggression and actions, because he can't accept that what he is doing wrong is by his own hand and his only. He knows he's wrong, but it has to be someone else's fault.....not his. That's you.

The way I see it, the more you argue with him about it when he does it, the more justification you are giving him (in his mind anyway) that what he is doing must be okay because of the way you're acting....not him.

Have you noticed that every single thing he's 'accused' you of is the exact same thing he's already completely guilty of?

Like I said....you're his mirror.

Hope this makes a little bit of sense. I'm not as good at putting my thoughts in writing as most here.

Hi all - latest update..

My husband and I talked this past weekend. He told me he didn't want a divorce but thought he should move out for awhile. Allowing him time to decide if he still wants the marriage. Told me he still is sexually attacted to me but needs time away to see if he wants to spend time in general with me....nice guy!

I tol him no. I would not wait around for him to decide if I'm worthy enough to be in his life. I had been a great wife to him and paid dearly for my mistake 15 years ago. He also could come up with nothing in the past 15 years that I had done that was worthy of divorcing over.

I did ask him about marriage counceling and he refused. He also refused to fire the girl that is is/was having an affair with. Although he sai it wasn't an affair cause they never ha sex...most would disagree.

The above are non negotiables for me. If he really wanted the marriage he would do all possible to save it, clearly he doesn't want that.

Have you been familiarizing yourself with Plan B? You really need to get into Plan B.

Here's what Dr. Harley says about Plan B.

"Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s spouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.

But what about marital separation when an affair is not the issue. In your letter, you did not indicate why you had separated. It may have been for reasons other than infidelity.

In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating."

Full article Here

Plan B is not to punish your spouse; it's to protect you. Plan B allows you to heal and to live your life without the drama of the wayward. It also protects any remaining love you have for your H. It will keep you healthier, both emotionally and physically, than living with a man who vacillates between you and his OW.

Do you have the financial means to support yourself? Can you find an intermediary?

Then i suggest you pack his belongings and set them outside of the house.
He should not be allowed to maintain his affair while living with you.

At this point you should consult with an attorney and try to get him out of the house legally if he won't leave voluntarily.

But see the attorney first so you have protection in case he tries to take all of the money etc

I do have a lawyer already and meeting with him again next week to file.
I was so hurt that my husband even suggested moving out, not divorcing because he needed to think about staying with me!! How insulting.

My life won't be out on hold for him.

I suggested counceling, he refused.
I asked him to terminate the OW employment, he refused.

I'm done.

I wanted to wait till after Xmas for the kids. I'm not waiting any longer.

Now- he isn't speaking to me and barely answers my text messages. You would think he was mad at me!?

Xmas is a great time to make the WS think about what they really want. If you can pull it off, a dark Plan B over the season is a good weapon to use too.

Do you have someone that can act as an Intermediary?

I have a question....

My husband told me (not that I believe him) that he and this women had an emotional affair and kissed but no sex at this point.

I'm led to believe that they are waiting to have sex until my husband is no longer in the house with me, he is moving out very soon.

Is there a greater chance that an affair will last if the two involved don't have sex until the married couple is seperated??

I would be very doubtful about this. I don't believe a man would leave his wife if he wasn't already having a physical relationship with another woman.

I don't believe him either.

Just wondering if the success rate is higher with this type of twist to an affair...

Any other thoughts???

Honestly, I've never seen that be the case.

Dr Harley does say that most affairs die a natural death within 2 years.

I would focus on plan B and throw his crap out on the curb.
The way he treats you is terrible.

When are you going into Plan B?

How to Plan B Correctly

Just as clarification, I think my husband feels that if he and thr OW have not had Sex yet, then somehow their relationship hasn't started as wrong. That tht waited to get physical.

Can these relationships work in the long term?

Long story short: no.

It may appear that they are sometimes but that is because they still have things to sacrifice to the affair, like a marriage or a job.

Lacole,

You need to get yourself into to plan b ASAP. You do not deserve to abused by your husband no matter what he thinks his "justifications" are. You deserve so much more. At this point, what he thinks and feels is completely irrelevant. You emotional wellbeing is far more important. Plan b will take you away from this abuse and emotional turmoil. As a female who did plan A for a year (Dr H recommends 3 weeks for women......yes I did a year) after dday.....I see the rabbit hole you are falling into. This is not a place you want to be, trust me as I know all to well.

Will you start getting ready for plan b? Do you have an IM in mind? Start planning. I see the turmoil in your postings, you need to do this ASAP.

I have an appt with my lawyer on wed of this coming week. I am officially filing for divorce. Husband should get the papers right around Xmas.


H is moving out right after the new year. He already has a corp apt he got through a friend, so he won't be taking anything except his own personal clothes, etc.

He has been so mean and snappy. You would think it was me who did something wrong?! I also wouldn't be surprised if the OW was pressuring him to make some kind of decision. Sex with a women 20 years younger is difficult to refuse I guess.

I don't want it to work out with her. I want him to realize how devastating the his actions were, to his 21 yr marriage, kids, nothing in his life will ever be the same, but maybe at 50, that is what he is hoping for?!

I don't want his to regret it in the hope he comes back, I just want him to look back and really feel like he made a giant mistake....in his mind it's not an affair until you have sex, so he justify a it that way, thinking it's not a tainted relationship then it will work out for the long term...

If an affair is not consummated until after the spouse moves out, does it have a better chance of working out?

Plan B lacole.

Your posts are filled with what he is thinking, feeling and doing.

Plan B gets you away from the wayward madness. You focus on what you are thinking, feeling and doing.

You only control yourself lacole. I had an extremely difficult time going into plan B. The vets will tell you how darn stubborn I was. Please do not follow my example.

I have been in Plan B for almost 2 years. Do you know who I found? Me. I like me. I am pretty darn awesome and did not deserve the hand that my wayward dealt me, but I am doing great now. You will too.

As a vet said to me, "step on into plan b, the water is fine"

I know- I need to focus on me and filing these papers and felling back in control of my own life is he first step. I'm not questioning my decision at all!

But - I don't want his affair/relationship/friendship whatever he wants to call it , to last. I just want abit more insight into this....

If he really takes a concerted effort to get it right with her, can it work?

Lacole, you only need to read some of the threads on here for the answer to your question.

I also pulled This thread up for you for the statistics mentioned.

In my situation, once I stepped out of the equation and refused contact with my WH, the affairees love busted each other and their relationship fell apart. Move to plan B and focus on yourself. You may find that when their relationship falls apart, you will have moved on to a better place emotionally.

Also - is depression in the H common at this time as well?
He seems very down and miserable. I understand it's not a happy time for us but I am trying to be positive and happy for the kids,
My H is acting withdrawn and miserable, yet this specific incident was his doing!

Yesterday, he pouted and stomped his feet up the stairs when he came home and saw me and the kids watchin a movie in the tv he always uses...he was upset that he needed to wait...

What is going on here!!!??

Lacole,
My FWH was very depressed during the time he was entangled with his OW. This was before discovery day, so I thought he was depressed because of his work situation.
I understand Dr. Harley to say that during the A, waywards often are very depressed. Add to that, their "selfishness" quotient has been severely increased, and it is no wonder he is in a mess.

As an aside, my FWH also thought it wasn't an A for him, because they hadn't had sex yet. Of course, now he sees that as being totally foggy thinking. But that took a long time for him to see, once the A ended.

But.... You do know he is in an A. I understand you have a plan to divorce. But the way you are living right now is insanity. The danger to you and your children is enormous. Can you get him out of the house right now? You said he has somewhere to go...

Funny- my husband tried telling me the same, since they didn't have sex it really isn't / wasn't an affair....anything to shift blame or lighten the guilt.

He isn't leaving until after Xmas. I know it's crazy but I can't upset the kids. Maybe that is only my own feelings and upset I'm thinking of, maybe they would be ok??
I meet with my lawyer this week and H will go a few weeks from now. Until then I bite my tounge and support my kids....

I know he's in an affair. They may have cooled off abit or not have had sex, but this will pick up once my H moves out. I think by cooling it off for now,
He can justify it to himself that the sexua affair really didn't start till after he left, so really was that bad...

Why r they depressed? They should be feeling grea while with the OW.

I think the depression is because deep down they KNOW they are being selfish, and what they are doing is wrong. They have managed to justify their A to themselves because they are addicted to the attention from the AP.

I think men are ESPECIALLY good at fooling/justifying to themselves, because they are generally better at compartmentalizing their lives. So when they are with the OW, they are certain this is the right thing, and when they are with the BW, they believe they are Mr. Perfect Hubby. But deep down, where the man who was your husband resides inside himself, he knows that his behaviour is wrong.

I am sorry for what you and your children will have to endure over the next few weeks. I did not experience separation or divorce when I was young, so I haven't the experience to comment. But other posters here, who are children of divorce, say that kids KNOW when something is wrong, and if you do not tell them the cause, they will assume it is because of them or something they have done.

Additionally, the extreme stress on YOU during this time is a recipe for a nervous breakdown. If that happens, what will be the the outcome for your kids?

How old are your children? Will you re-consider your decision to wait until January?

Kids are 19,16 &12.

Not babies, but I can keep things together for them.

What happens when the A ends - H would have lost a much. Wonder how depressed he will be then. How foolish of him.

He actually told me a few weeks ago that he didn't want a divorce, he wanted to move out and see If one day he thought enough of me that I was the one he would want to take to dinner or a movie...geez, how lucky I would be..lol

I'm sure part of him wants the OW and all she gives him, makes him feel young and vibrant...and he still wants his family, marriage for other reasons. I'm worth more then waiting around for him to decide.....

Can't wait for the A to end....wonder how quickly he will be knocking on my door...

You need to get this man out of your home.

Lacole;

Have you told your kids about your WH's affair?

X2

He is always mad at me, always.

Ever since I found out about his A. He snaps, makes me feel like I'm a bother is. Ask him anything about the kids or whatever.

Why??? I know he wants me to feel bad.
It's so unfair!

He wants you to get angry or be nasty to him. Then he can be justified in disconnecting from you, because you are a shrew....

But Lacole, stop focussing about him. That is NOT your husband; it is an alien who has replaced your husband (at least temporarily.)

Remind me again, why are you waiting until after the new year to boot him out?

For the kids....they would be upset if he left now.

I need to keep my distance and have minimal interaction.
I will give him no reason to think in a shrew.
I need to hold myself to a better standard for myself.

If your kids knew the truth, they would support you in making him leave.
If your kids find out the truth years from now, they will be disappointed that THEY were the reason you put up with him.

Your kids are old enough to know the truth and old enough to hold him accountable for breaking up the family.

Do your kids know he's having an affair?

If not, they surely know SOMETHING's not right....

They deserve to know what is going on in their lives. And that his behaviour is intolerable. So long as you continue to tolerate it, you are modeling to them that having and A is acceptable.

U
X2

I disagree. And I know that Dr Harley would encourage you to separate.
He is very clear on that matter.
He is a national expert. Why don't you follow his guidelines instead of your own?
Do you feel that maybe you may not be thinking objectively?

Just a few more weeks and he will be gone.
Divorce papers will be served.

Are my kids old enough, yes, but
My husband will only make it worse, he will soon it and say it wasn't him that broke up the family, but me, who had her own affair 15 years ago, or he will say its "us" together that messed this up hence the breaking up of the family. He will not own anything specifically. He will spin and deflect to take as much faults way from him to preserve his own ego and image.

I'm not kicking him out now, a week before xmas.
Not for him, but for the kids. I need to just deal with it best I can.

Well that's your call but I don't see what his excuses have to do with anything. He can make his excuses out of your hearing just as well as in the home. Who cares what he rambles on about?

And as for plans for a phoney Christmas.. it won't go so well. children are very astute to undercurrents and don't like pretend happiness. They are young, not stupid. It would be more reassuring if you were real with them. However if you are dead set on trying, good luck with it.

So your plan is to lie to your kids and be miserable with him in the home?
What a miserable way to spend Christmas

Worse, Lacole, is what this few more weeks of pretending will do to you. I am very concerned for your health.

Going through this kind of stress, while pretending all is okay, is very hard on you. That is why Dr. Harley does not recommend you do this for longer than three weeks, tops.

And you have been at it for how long now?

Lacole,

My husband will only make it worse, he will soon it and say it wasn't him that broke up the family, but me, who had her own affair 15 years ago

Then embrace the truth and tell your kids that your affair set off a chain reaction, it will clear the air. Because it would be unfair to mention your Hs affair to your kids without also mentioning your own.

When your affair happened 15 years ago did you trickle truth your H over a number of months, if so it might explain why he never recovered.

God Bless
Gamma

Here.
How to Plan B Correctly

No - I put it all out there-

I don't agree either saying my affair started a chain reaction. My husband is a big boy and he made many mad decisions over the years all by himself.
He knows right from wrong and knew that certain things he did would hurt me.
He used my affair as an excuse for some of these, but just as I won't blame our bad marriage on my affair, he can't blame his on mine....

I'm will embrace whatever I need to, I won't be afraid or ashamed of the truth.
Xmas isn't the time for it with my kids...

Actually Christmas would be the best time to expose.
Why? Because the way we help people is to allow them to face the natural consequences of their actions.

I've been there. My wife left me and the 3 kids and returned a little before Christmas...and spent it secretly texting OM.

Miserable time.

Its your life, if you feel its best to swim in a sewer instead of exposing to your kids then go ahead

Have you exposed his affair?

Can someone explain why my H, the one in the midst of an affair,
Is so angry at ME??

He walks around snappy, cranky and mkserae ALL the time.

I need to understand this ....

I am a fairly new poster, but I thought I could jump in and help.

Your WH is trying to find a reason to justify his actions. He will be rude and mean and say things to "bait" you so that he can make himself feel better. From what I read on the forum, this means he knows what he is doing is wrong. Don't Love-Bust him, and don't give him any reason to justify his behavior. Be strong.

Have you exposed his affair yet? (Use the Exposure 101 link in MelodyLane's posts, or in the Notable Posts thread at the top of the forum.)

Yes - affair has been exposed. He is getting divorce papers served right after Xmas and is moving out next month.

I am staying positive and upbeat and try hard not to take his bait. In the event I have asked him for things (financial papers, etc) he says he will get them, but then doesn't. If he knows it's something I want, he will work hard to avoid it and not give it to me...I don't ask anymore, my lawyer said let it be and he will end up in a worse sitation with the court for not cooperating. I am giving him just enough rope to hang himself...

He thinks I'm backing off for his sake, I'm back off to preserve my own sanity and emotional well being knowing soon he will get served at work..wish I could see his face!!

He created all this night mare, refuses to give up the affair and punishes me with his bad attitude...will he ever see how badly he handled this??

At this point the best thing to focus on is Plan B

I know that ....

But I would like to know if at some point they realized they were mean, hurtful, foolish???

Everyone is different, lacole. Some get out of the fog and are deeply remorseful and feel shame. Others choose stay in the fog, choosing to rationalize their selfish, immoral choices. Denial is their best friend. At this point you have no idea which of these is your husband. You never know when or if he will come out of the fog.


Good post by Blair. Also, know that the best you can do is what you are doing: stay positive, don't let his fogbabble get the better of you, and continue to avoid angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments.

Marriage Builders requires you to be the better person. And when you continue to do that, the wayward spouse looks even worse in comparison. And that frosts the rationalizing wayward.

Also, I don't understand why you are pretending your way through Christmas. That serves no one well, but only makes a mockery out of the holidays and everyone's, including the children's, feelings.

If your WH is choosing to not end the affair, then he is choosing to be away from the family during Christmas. I would give him the ultimatum. Write a no contact letter, show it to me, and then we will send it together (by e-mail, snail mail, and text message) or you will leave the house.

I agree...

I look back in just the past 2 months since I discovered the affair and feel good
About how I have handled myself - sure I had a few week moments but recovered and learned from them.

I have stopped any negative comments/texts, I allow him to stomp around tr house like a toddler as he has done many times...and are just letting him see the natural consequences to his actions.

He can have the OW and she can have him. They deserve eachother. I know it won't last...my lawyer already warned me that at some point he will come back using sweet words and saying all the right things...and I am NOT to believe him.

He thinks he will get off easy...emotiobally, financially, little does he know what is ahead of him....and that....is what keeps me moving forward in the immediate weeks....you reap what you sow...was never more true.

Yes, we reap what we sow. But even the most egregious offenses have been atoned for by what Dr. Harley calls Just Compensation.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

I don't know if you are still fighting for your marriage. If you are, there is a chance it can be saved, even though you are about to go into Plan B.

If you are in Plan B, then get ready to write your Plan B letter, and remember that it is a love letter!

Here are some samples:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2558482

It's good you are letting him see the consequences of his actions.... this is important you cannot shield him.

I understand your need to try and understand the wayward behaviour. It's a hard pill to swallow when they are having an A and treat the BS so poorly. Wayward behaviour is selfish and irrational, it's based on making them feel good or getting what they want. It is important to focus on you though and not the foggy irrational behaviour. It will only cause you grief.

All WS are angry at their BS. They project their own anger at you and will use it to get a reaction, it confirms in their mind you are the bad guy and justifys their behaviour.

Also - my H is back to visiting the casino in out state a Nimber of times since I discovered his A. Now, historically, he does have a gambling problem. He has last tons of money over the years and his whole family is aware of this.

Between the A and the gambling (which I'm sure he feels he is in complete control of lol) are these all signs of a mid life crisis?

No mlc. Not relevant. This is full on addictive behavior.

Secure joint funds without delay. At a minimum, move half of all joint funds to an account in your name only

Consider canceling joint credit cards.

As long as you are married, you may be liable for his debts.

I'm not sure why it's called a midlife crisis. There is no crisis going on. They simply decide they want to be selfish. He is simply being selfish and feeling entitled and nothing more.

"Mid life crisis" is a mythological term used to describe the bad behavior of people in their late 30's. It is typically employed by spouses who are in denial. I haven't read your whole thread, but it looks to me that the real "crisis" is your spouse's gambling and adultery.

Please read.
Dr. Harley Posts on "Mid-Life Crisis"

Seperate bank accounts and no joint cc accounts at alll.
These were all seperated years ago. Also,house is in my name only.

He is VERY selfish and as I look back realize he did very little for me or anyone else for that matter unless he benefited somehow.

Not sure how he will react to the divorce papers. Told me he should not have married me 21 years ago and has wanted a divorce for years...so I'm assuming he should kiss the ground once served..but..he will be shocked I did it, never would think I would. I think many of his words were used to control me never thinking I would act on them. But he has left me no choice.

From experience, what Has been the general reaction from other H's??

When are you going into Plan B?

Hi Lacole;

I suspect your H will be surprised, as you have outlined. You have "trained" him in the past that you will tolerate his abuse without taking action. You will be changing that dynamic with your action of divorce.

Are you all set for Plan B? Intermediary in place?

My H is very selfish and a narcissist. Although he says we should not have married 21 years ago and he has wanted a divorce for years and didn't have the courage (I guess his A gave him the courage).

How do they react to getting served divorce papers? My initial reaction is that he should kiss the ground for finally getting what he has wanted but I'm thinking it may not go over that easy??

Saying u want a divorce and having it actually presented to you are two different things.....

People in affairs ALWAYS act as though they are narcissistic and are selfish. I thought my H was sociopathic at the time. Their foggy minds rewrite history.

Your best tactic would be to completely ignore all his statements and proceed with your plan. Your plan is based on logic while his is based on emotion.

Then get into Plan B quickly.

Talking to lawyer tomorrow. H will be served in days.

In the meantime, he lies around all day an does nothing unless it's for himself.
He moans and groans over being asked to do anything as if he is doing me a favor. He has a house/kids...since when is doing a chore or picking up his daughter from a friends considered "extra"???

He is so cranky and mean. Me and the kids walk on eggshells. He acts like I did something to him...2 months after I discovered his affair he is still completely Unremorseful. Which I just done understand.

My wife was the same way.
Harley refers to this as the "taker in full control"
And that's why its so important to protect yourself legally
Harley says that when the taker is in full control, men will leave their families, cash in funds, buy a sports car etc.

Dont be a victim of his irrational, selfish behavior

He has no idea I'm filing. I fact, he has told his friends I want to stay with him.

The house is in my name and I have protected myself in all other areas.

I just don't understand why he is acting this way. Making it worse on the kids and himself. I truly think he hates himself and is miserable. Making me upset or the kids may make him feel better.

What will he do when he gets served? When he moves out and realizes his target (me) is not there anymore. He thinks he will be happier alone? He is miserable and unhappy...is having an affair and has a life long gambling problem...I just don't see happiness for him.....

Why is he acting this way? Because his taker is in full control.

What will he do when he gets served? Who knows? My wife went in the bathroom and cried for an hour....then went to have sex with OM a few days later.

Lacole:
He is wayward. You cannot reason with a wayward.
The sooner you get on with separation, the sooner you can move on.

I understand that I need to move forward and soon.

Here is just an example of another scenario:

A few weeks back my H told me tbat in hindsight he should not have married me 21 years ago...I reminded him of this comment just yesterday,telling him I thought it was one of the most hurtful things he has ever said. That I gave him 21 years of my life, birthed and raised his kids and he regrets it all happening!!??

He still didn't disagree with this comment weeks after saying it. - I guess he needs to say this to justify his own bad behavior and affair.

Do they ever see the hurt and bad choices once the fog clears?

Usually, not on their own. My fWH doesn't recall the hurtful things he said, or even his most hurtful actions. Bringing them up to him now would only be focusing on the A and I do not wish to waste any more energy on that! (Plus, it is a serious love buster...)

Dr. Harley says many spouses aren't even remorseful once the A has ended. He says that remorse isn't necessary at that stage. (Read Jon and Sue's story in SAA. Sue still blamed Jon for her A, until much later.) However, remorse of the WS will surface after recovery.

This was a very difficult lesson for me to learn. As the BS, I wanted to see signs of remorse in my fWH. I wanted him to know how much he hurt me, to understand why I needed his help in healing. Working with Steve Harley, I realized I was stuck in wanting revenge... for him to hurt as much as I was. But logically, I then realized that would do us no good, and because I care for him, I don't want him to be as hurt as I was. From other threads here, I saw how painful it can be for the BS once the WS really begins to see the extent of their destruction.

This recovery process is not an easy path, regardless of if your M recovers or not. But the alternative is worse.

I am sorry you have been so hurt. My advice is to stop listening to the crazy things your WH is saying. That is not your husband. It is a foggy alien. And get into Plan B as soon as you can. There is true healing for you in Plan B. Until then, he will just keep piling on the hurt.

Dr. Harley says he sees that WW usually never show remorse (just like Sue in SAA), but a WH should come back on bended knee and if the WH doesn't then the BW needs to heed these red flag and protect herself (hence Plan B).

Please get into a dark Plan B to protect yourself.

Any updates from your lawyer?

So H is completely self absorbed :

Makes meals that he wants and only for himself. (He has 3 kids)
Doesn't leave te sofa except to do something he wants. He comes home/leaves without a word to anyone. Can go hours without saying a word to anyone.
Complains about anyone making too much noise, leaving the door open by accident, etc, but never helps, only complains.

I can go on and on....do they ever wake up and see the devastation left behind??

I know this is a very difficult time for you, Lacole. However, you need to get him outta there, and get in to Plan B.

It's after the holidays now...When are the papers being served?

Talked to my lawyer yesterday, he is getting everything done a said it should take about a week till he is served. He needs to set a court date as well so the judge can order temp $$ support.

I told him my husband should be thrilled, exactly what he has wanted for years...lawyer said he will still be mad cause it's not happening on his terms...

Okay, good..
And you KNOW your WH is going to be crazy mad when he gets served...

He shouldn't be crazy mad...he claims he has wanted a divorce for years and regrets marrying me 21 years ago...I am giving him exactly what he has wanted.
Other then him being mad cause he will be served at work and be embarrassed, he should kiss the ground!!!

What will he be mad about???

Lol.
Listen to your lawyer.

Lacole,

Do you have any intention of following Dr Harleys advice or do ypu just want to use this forum as a blog?

I plan on taking any advice that I can...
Pardon me for reaching out to others for advice and to express how I'm feeling...

The advice that Dr Harley would recommend is Plan B
have you read about Plan B?

Lacole, have you ever told your WH that he needs to leave? That you refuse to live with someone who is not participating in the marriage? Have you asked your lawyer about getting him out?

You need to get him out of the house so you can get into plan B and you and the kids can have some peace! It's terrible that you and your children have to live this way.

I would be more concerned with this than anything else right now.

Husband served. Absolutely NO reaction. Not a peep.

Good. Let him stew. How are you and the kids? Do you have an IM to take care of any possible contact?

PS. He did move out, right?

He hasn't moved out yet. A few weeks ago he had big plans to leave and seemed close to doing it...his plan seemed to fizzle out.

Hopefully being served will give him the incentive he needs.

Surprised over his non reaction. Either he is on shock I actually did it or he is so thankful he is speechless....

Kiss had done the same thing (big plans) but nothing happened...so I packed for him

I can ask him to leave 100 times, but until a court forces him out or if he was physically abusive, he isn't required yet. Not in my state anyway.

Thoughts on no reaction??

It's hard to say. You probably shocked him. I'm curious how he will act when you see him. When will he be "home"?

Did your lawyer file for "exclusive use of marital home"?

Lacole,

Has your attorney talked to you about filing for separation and doing a civil standby with a police officer? Does your state allow for this?

So according to the marshal, he was no expecting to be served.
Also, his friend that works wit him said he was beyond pissed.

Listen, you can't me you don't love me, care about me, have wanted a divorce for years and regret marrying me 21 years ago and then be mad and shocked to get divorce papers!!

On top of it, he has not said a word to me and acts line nothing is wrong or different....

After talking to some friends/family about his reaction, he truly seems not to have a soul. He is vacant. No emotion or reaction.

Has anyone experienced this? I know there isn't anything I need to be doing, just curious to get some insight...

Lacole:
I think he is purposefully not reacting to you. And his stance is having the effect he wants... It is really irritating you.

It also seems to me that you really WANTED to get a big reaction out of him!

No - his lack of response is not surprising. That has always been his ammo.

I'm just floored how he can be so robotic/vancant/empty.
Other then hoping to irritate me, which is isn't, as more perplexed,
What is he hoping to gain.??

Who can know what is going on in his head?
Focus on what you can control....like getting into Plan B.

Agreed!

I am focusing on me and moving forward.

Still am curious....I guess he wants to inflict his own punishment on me. Make himself feel better. He wanted this...he should be kissing the ground, not punishing me....

lacole,
It seems to me that you have exited Plan A awhile ago and are now in a cold war with your husband. If you can't Plan A, then go to Plan B. Or stay in Plan Cold War.

I filed for divorce. Husband was served. Husband moving out.
I'm in plan B.

Just looking to understand how reaction or lack there of.
Never been through a divorce before.

Plan B is going to the gym, painting your nails and finding a good movie to watch. Not caring what your alien husband is thinking and doing. Start practising and it will get easier. It is very difficult in the beginning.

Maybe redecorating the house will keep you busy

Your H has to be moved out for you to be in Plan B. Plan B is no contact with him unless it relates to your children together, like visitation or a medical emergency. Has your H moved out yet, or have you moved out?

Weeks ago you were encouraged to Plan B.
Yet you insisted on keeping him in the home.
Plan B is NO CONTACT.
Have you read anything about Plan B?

Ok- so here is where things are:

Husband moving out on 2/1. Court date for financial support is schedule for feb.

In the meantime....husband is snappish, sarcastic and just not nice.
To me or the kids. He barely speaks to us. Not even a hi or bye. I understand if he is upset with me, not justified, but he can be mad at me if he wants, but why does he distance himself from the kids??

My son (16) told me yesterday that he knows my husband texts this OW while they are together at the gym or lunch. He feel so upset and disrespected that his dad would do it in front of him...

I guess he is in the affair fog and maybe that explains some of this as it seems he can't do/think about anything but the OW.

Do they always get out of the fog? And is there any chance at all they can make the relationship work since we are divorcing and they can be free to move forward in a relationship? I know I shouldn't be concerned about this, but please want ur thoughts on this....

Most affairs die a natural death within 6 months of exposure.
Typically they often die faster in Plan B because then the affaires must rely on each other to meet all of their emotional needs.

There are many former cheaters in these forums that came out of the fog.

He has become a bear! Either barking/growling at someone or ignoring them.

He is divorcing me, not his kids and he is just making them not want to be around him and they are getting angry and hurt.

This OW is taking all of his good energy and leaving all the bad behind.
Seems she is all that matters to him. His cell phone is never out of his hand.

If the kids don't want to be around him, he has no one to blame but himself.

I hope the next 11 days go quickly and peacefully for you and your children.

When my DD was very upset with kiss' affair, she wrote him a letter about how hurt she was and how she hoped his head would clear and that he would see the jury he was doing to the family. Perhaps, your kids would want to "spill it" too?

See the *hurt. My phone auto corrected that to jury for some reason!

Yes....his "taker" is in full control and that is why you have been advised to see an attorney and enter plan B weeks ago......because in his state of mind selfishness rules.

My wife abandoned her kids for her affair partner! She literally gave up everything!
Dr Harley would encourage you to be honest with your kids and explain that his lack of care is because he is choosing another woman over his family

Ok- question...

Husband wanted divorce, having affair, etc...I filed, yet he is mad, angry and upset with me!!??

He is getting what he wanted, why the anger????

Because he's used to his needs being met by two women. That's is all

Well - shame on him for "begging" for a divorce, claiming to have regretted getting married to me 21 years ago and then getting upset when I call his bluff and actually file!!

Did he think I would continue to meet his needs after all tht??

Lacole;
You are trying to make sense out of the words of a wayward.
IF your WH ever gets himself out of the fog, he won't believe the things he said to you during this time. I know this because that is how it is w/ my fWH. And every other former wayward spouse here...

So, stop listening to him. Stop thinking what he says should make sense.

YOU have chosen to not have him leave until the end of the month (which is 6 to 7 WEEKS after you were first advised to do so by the posters on this forum. Granted, it is your life, your choice.

Legally, in my state, I could not force him to leave. Unless it was a physically abusive situation. I asked two lawyers, was told the same by both.

I could change the locks, but then would be forced to let him back in.
No was going to leave.

My choice?? Not really, just doing my best with what I have.

Do they always come out of the fog at some point??

Not always. Especially not while the A continues.
You see, the fog is REQUIRED in order for them not to feel the hurt and devastation they are causing.

From what I read, I agree, def not while the A continues.

But from what I have read the A will end at some point...
Do they then realize how foolish they were or can an A end without the realization??

They (esp. he) won't realize it for a while after the A ends. It takes a while for the fog to clear. And for the justifications to settle out. Or, if he is a very entitled sort of person, given to serial cheating, he may just pop into another A.

My husband is not remorseful (said so himself) and seems to have found the girl of his dreams in the OW.

Even though I filed for divorce and he has no reason now to end the A, I'm assuming at some point this A will fizzle out...

Am I correct? What r the chances he had found the love of his life?

The odds are the affair will die within 6 months.
Dr Harley recently commented on his Radio Show that he has counseled nearly 50,000 couples...and is unaware of a single affairage (that's what he calls the less than 5% pf affairs that result in marriage) that is successful!
He said that he has counseled many affairage partners and they all say the affair was a mistake!

Do you listen to the Radio Show?
You can listen on any smartphone app for free.....
or listen online at home for free.

I listen while I do house chores....and its a great source of information and encouragement.

Does the affair begin at the time sex/intimacy happens or when the secrecy begins??

When I read online how most affair end around 6 months, what is the first few months were emotional and not physical?

Also, if my husband has been served papers and he now knows he can put his attention to the OW, does the affair have a better chance of becoming something real and long term?

The OW knows that your WH is a liar and a cheater, and will hurt the people he loves. How do you form a real and long term relationship with someone like that??

There isn't a clock that is counting down, lacole. But odds are in the favor of the couple lovebusting each other and having second thoughts within months of the BS getting out of the way(plan B). Right now, they are in conflict with you. Without you in the picture, they will have no choice but to see the conflict with eah other.

Funny thing, the OW does know that my husband is married with kids and still doesn't care about what is happening and continues to stay with him. Doesn't sound like she is one with a strong moral compass so maybe that fact that he is a liar and a cheat really don't matter to her at all....

Kiss' AP knew that he was married and had 4 kids. When I confronted her and showed her the picture of the kids, she said that she didn't "give a damn" about them.

While the OW might not care, your WH may come out of his fog when he realizes that his AP doesn't give a damn about his kids, that his friends and family want NOTHING to do with her and will never accept her and that his AP is not even comparable to the wife who fought for him and loves him and is the mother of his children. This is why Kiss broke up with his AP.

Yes. When two people are having an affair their "taker" is in full control.
They make irrational decisions and dont care about harm they cause others.
Thats why legal protection is so important, because otherwise the husband could juat withdraw all the monies and leave the wife destitute.

My wife left our family for a drug addict and convicted child abuser!

Wow - so awful the stories are here...

I have protected myself and so glad I have, not only by serving the divorce papers but going back to court next month to have temp financial support ordered. My husband likes to hold $$ over my head as a punishment. I just don't want to deal with it anymore.

Now, our household bills are about 6k per month. My husband makes about 30k more then I do (at least). He told me a few days ago he was willing to give me $1800 a month and felt that was more then fair.

My lawyer laughed saying he earns more yet only wants to pay about 30% of the monthly bills. Guess food and heat for his kids isn't a concern.

I said nothing to my husband knowing that it will be resolved next month on court (he isn't aware of the court date yet).

He deserves all he gets. Between this A, years of gambling, verbal and emotional abuse, not caring one lick about me....

I'm glad you have an attorney working for you for the D. Things will get better for you. How soon are you going to Plan B?

He claims he is moving out by 2/1.

Nine days is good. When is the D final?

Well - in CT is a mandatory 90 day waiting period. Earliest would be April but something tells me it won't be that easy....

Last bit of clarification needed:

Since I havready filed/served my H will that enable him to never come out of the fog? If he has only the OW and nothing/no one else airing for him (BS) then why does ever have to leave the fog?

Yes, thats a common question.
People leave the "fog" because they can only act irrational for so long before facing massive consequences.

For example, the 55 year old man that leaves his wife and kids and buys a corvette and drives off into the Mexican sunset with his 20 year old Secretary appears to be riding off into the sunset...but eventually he will face issues such as child support, social disapproval and more importantly...

Every relationship has conflict! Currently your husband is with a woman that adores everything he says but that cant last for long because conflict in inevitable.

That is why these affairs last so shortly...

Thx - makes sense.

I would also think this would apply to a WS that is using the affair as an exit to a bad marriage....they may be getting out of a bad marriage, but at some point conflict will arise within the affair as well as creating another set of problems..ie: custody, child support, financial issues, etc...

No escape....

Ive heard many refer to "exit affairs" but I have never heard Dr Harley mention that term on his radio show.
Having an affair is such an irrational unhealthy thing to do that it is rarely planned.

After my H was caught having his A, he conveniently told me that he had wanted a divorce for years, yet never had the courage to ask.

Funny, suddenly he has the courage when the OW is in the picture.
He was trying to say that his A and the OW had no corilation to him suddenly getting the courage to ask for a divorce....??!! Really...

Wow - just as he gets the courage he just happens to start an A!!

Lying and justifying....

Yes.
The very term "Exit Affair" is an excuse used by cheaters.
Unfortunately, popular literature and many counselors and doctors use that term also.

They all say that. Did you ever read my fWH's first post? Click on the link below that says kiss.

Interesing read....

I was good enough to be married to for 21 years, birth and raise his kids, but a cook his food, wash his clothes, pay the bills, etc...BUT suddenly, by coincidence, he has the courage to get out now....when a 29 year old comes into the picture. He is 50.

I believe this will it last. Not sure how long, but these two can't possibly be the ones who out shine all the others and become a forever couple....

He is loosing so much. It's a shame all tr effort he is putting into this A wasn't put into making a great marriage.

thats why it will fail. He will resnt the OW because he made a great sacrifice for her and she won't live up to expectations. They will lovebust each other until one of them runs away to another bad relationship. I see it alot in the military affairs ruin the moral compass and judgment of an individual. They say its not about making mistakes that defines you but what you do after your mistakes.

In the meantime....he is mean an snappish and generally ignores everyone.

He is having the A and wanted the divorce, but I get the bad attitude???

Are you in Plan B?

Yes -

Why do I get the crap attitude??

Because he's wayward and waywards are manipulators and always turn things.

If you're in Plan B then how are you "getting his attitude"?

I don't have to talk to him to get the attitude...I see him at sports functions, etc....just the vibe he puts off...jerk.

Do they know they are manipulating and turning things around?
Or do they shut off that button??

Then you aren't in Plan B if you see him. This is why Dr. Harley recommends a dark Plan B. Every time you see him or hear about him it sets you back.

I'm very concerned for your health. Are you on ADs?

How can you get into a dark Plan B?

It is ALL fog!

So I just told my older son about everything.
He has been away at college and I have been unable to tell
Him about the bad marriage, divorce, husbands A and my A 15 years ago.

He is very upset. Mad initially at just my husband and now mad at me for what I did 15 years ago. I told him I tried so hard to make the marriage work, that I stood by his dad through all his problems, gambling addiction, etc.

He won't even speak to me....what do I do???

You did the right thing for now. Your continuing Actions of Openness and Honesty will speak much louder than any measly words could say, although he too will need to see both the words of remorse and the coinciding actions to back them up.

Is he home from school, or still away?

Keep asking for advice.

LTL

Hes a young man.
Give him space and time.

They are still living together

Then this isn't Plan B at all.

lacole,

When will you be going into Plan B?

So husband and I told kids about divorce, affair, etc.

Kids very hurt and upset of course.
When they asked my H pointed questions about his A he dodged and darted around them, made excuses and diverted.
All that I expected.

Kids deserved to hear the truth.

That is why you should've told them the truth on your own.

Do they know the truth?

The boys knew the truth before we all sat down together. I told them.
They both called my H out on many things....yet never got the truth.

It's a shame.

Glad you told them the truth. The kids know their dad is a liar.

When will you be able to get into Plan B? Is he moving out?

Only 6 more days to Plan B and your H moving out, right?

Hang in there!

And good job telling the truth about was going on.

Thx all -

Yes- this coming weekend genus moving out.

I had hoped he would handle the conversations with his kids differently then how he has talked with me. That didn't happen. He just rambled on about things that weren't relevant and changed / spun the topic when pressed for answers about things....ie: son asked dad of he liked the OW, after being pressed for an answer, his dad said "no"....I'm thinking, then why are you with her?? This is only confusing my son more!!

He is moving into an expensive apt. Doesn't realize yet that he is going back to court next month for a ruling on financial support. He thinks what he has already offered me will be enough....I guess he feels he doesn't need to pay for his kids food,heat, etc...but, as long as he has a fancy apt and takes care of himself first that is all that matters....

He told my kids he tried so hard, worked at the marriage a lot. But how can he tell them that? He never went to MC, made mistake after mistake, gambled $$ away....is that the definition of trying?? He is trying to fool them, himself or both?

And if he doesn't recognize these things, won't the same patterns and mistakes repeat themselves??

Well hes in the fog.
you need to focus on Plan B preparation.

Hi Lacole;

I am very sorry to see that you are still putting any stock into what he says. He is a wayward. Waywards lie. Period. End of story.

IF he ever gives up his wayward life, AND IF he de-fogs (instead of jumping into another A, or remaining an entitled, selfish man) even he will not believe the crazy things he is saying now.

Since you won't be free of him in your house for another week, you will just have to stop trying to make sense of his babbling. Stop reacting. Stop even listening to him. Can you do that?

How do you know if it's really the fog or if he is thinking rationally?
Is it the fog or is he really just a jerk to the core?

Dr Harley would probably say that he's in the fog, which is another way to describe irrational thinking.

This sounds like a typical affair to me

Well - I guess once he moves out and we divorce it's no longer an affair.

I'm sorry that this situation is so difficult. He's not going to be nice. He's going to act like a typical wayward. Ignore him as much as you possibly can, and don't let him drag you into his nonsense.

Have you read up on Plan B yet? Are you preparing for Plan B? The next few days need to be spent on this so that you are ready for it.

Hugs.

What is your experience of him pre-A? Was he just as much of a jerk? If so, why did you marry him?

If he is in an A, he is not thinking rationally. Affairs are not rational.

I Think I need to Point something out here. But Before I do that I would like to state that it's not OK what your H is doing. Having an A is never OK.

However, from the get go of this thread you have been going from one extrem to the other. Do you behave this way at home as well? You seem to change opinion at a flick of the Dice from one extreme to the other. I don't feel any rationality to you. I Think you need to look Deep into yourself and Think about this. I have a feeling this could be the reason your H wants a D.

You seem extremly set in stone in your idea of how things are or how people should handle things. This is not the case. Everybody handles things differently. Just because somebody doesn't want to go to MC or have a gambling problem doesn't mean that they aren't working on their problems. Your H stayed with you for 15 years. To me that defines somebody who tries realy hard to work on the problem. Now, Before you all bash me for this, he probarbly did not work on the problem in a way that was constructive for him but he did.

Anyways, my Point is that I Think you need to realy dig down and look at yourself and your behaviour. If for nothing else to grow yourself and have a better chance in your next relashionship.

Also, him having an A gives your the right to D him. I'm not saying that your are doing wrong in that, quite the opposite. I could neither tollerate an ongoing A.

I have certainly not been a perfect wife and do I think my husband tried In the marriage? Yes, to an extent.

He did choose to stay after my A. - although used my A as an reason to excuse his own bad choices and behavior. He excused his 30 + year gambling addiction, emotional and verbal abuse, years of lack of drive and unemployment, pawning my wedding rings, etc. - now, he is using it to excuse his A.

Could I have made better choices, yes, are there things I can work on within myself, yes.

My H behavior has only gotten more irrational. I'm sure he feels he tried. At this point it's not work arguing anymore. I filed, I'm done, he is out this weekend.

Would I be lying if I hoped this A didn't work out for him? No. He has brought a lot of pain to me, kids, extended family. - only thinks of himself first which has been clear his entire life. Right now, I don't want to see him ride off into the sunset with his 29 year old gf.

I fully undestand your feelings. I didn't post because I thought you were in the wrong in filing for D or for feeling resentfull. I wasn't defending your H's bad ways either. Just looking into you and trying to have you reflect deeply on yourself for your own good.

"Could I have made better choices, yes, are there things I can work on within myself, yes."

Is not looking deeply at yourself...

I would start by looking at why you change possition from one extreme to the opposite in the matter of a very short time. You are understanding and forgivefull one minute, the next you are bashing your H all while no new things have happened.

Some of this could be because of your "Roller coaster" situation but to me that doesn't explain it enough. Sometimes it seems that you grab the first insight somebody posts and go for that 100% just to completely change insights 1 h later because of something somebody else posted. You flip and flop all over the Place. You need to slow down and gather your thoughts i Think. What do you realy Think? WHat do you realy want? Who do you want to be?

You can't Control your H. It's time to thin about yourself and better yourself. Stop thinking about the outcome of your H's A. Start to work out, get a hobby or something to get your mind to ponder other things. And delve Deep into yourself with the help of an IC.

At this point, I urge you to focus on plan B preparations and worry about self reflection after entering plan B

I thought Everything was set for Plan B already. Anyways it does you no good worrying about your H. Let him come to you if he wants anything. Just focus on you and Plan B.

Lacole,

Just over 4 days now until your H moves out. Do you have a list written out of all the things you need to do for Plan B? Let us know if you have any questions about it. We're here for you.

4 MORE DAYS! Yes, make a list. So much to do. Do you have an IM set up and ready?

Yes - just a few more days until he moves out.
Last night we briefly started discussing the arrangement with the kids after he moves out...very quickly this discussion turned to $ and how he isn't happy I hired a lawyer, I'm wasting my $, etc. I did my best to ignore him and walked away.

Shortly thereafter he came to see me, blasted me again, trying to make me feel foolish, etc, - then 15 min late is apologizing to me through text messages.

How can one go from one extreme to another in minutes??!
He never apologized for the A or gambling and bad choices over the years,but rather blamed the marriage overall, how we wernt ment to be together and he was excited to go out and try life/living on his own.

It hurts that he just can't man up and be accountable. I made mistake and own them. He would rather justify his actions b blaming a bad marriage....
Doesn't make anything he did right and he won't ever get it.

I think he was looking for a weak spot, a way in to control or manipulate me, which I didn't give him....

Good job being strong and not taking the bait from your WH. Remember, he is in a fog right now and nothing he does will make any sense. Don't waste time trying to figure him out.

You're just 2 days away from him moving out. Are you ready for Plan B? Have you started preparing?

I have started preparing....

Aside from NC, I will also be changing the locks, putting a mailbox lock on and joined AAA so I don't have to worry if my car breaks down...haha

If for some reason, I do need to discuss something with my H, I have others I can do this through.

I do have to say...he insists there is no A. That aside from the one kids I saw and the continued texting. I am hard pressed to think that that is all it is and doesn't matter, it's a betrayal. I really believe that unless I caught him having sex with her, he will continue to deny everything/anything......

It's great that you already have an IM ready to go. Are you providing them the link for them to read about being an IM?

Have you started composing your Plan B letter?

lacole,

These next two days Please try to stop focusing on him and on yourself.

Dress spectacular on these days, wear perfume, etc..be sweet and nice.

You want to create a good last memory for him. This is hard but you need to do this until he moves out.

Cook him his favorite meals etc..

can you do this?

I can be cordial and respectful.

But he wants this, he wants to leave and start over, has made this very clear.
I don't know about cooking his fav meal but I have no intentions of yelling, screaming or getting upset.

Is this so he realizes how great he had it any wants to come back? He will never be back....he wants To be out to badly.

Is it so his last memories with me are good? I could be a saint and he would still only remember the bad.....

But can I do it for me?? Yep...

Then do it...make the next 2 days spectacular.
Okay?

Cook his favorite meals!
Smile!

Dont say he will never be back. conflict will start when he is with OW and you are in plan B.

This is an awesome idea, Lacole!

I will do my best to make the next few days positive.

Thx all!

Ditto.

What's going on?

Hi all - well H moved out last weekend. Only took his clothes and coffee maker so it didn't take long and I was gone for most of it.

I do have to say, it's like a negative light has lifted from the house. My and the kids are less stressed, no more walking on eggshells and just enjoying eachother.

Of course, I have not seen or spoke to H. He did get papers served yesterday forcing him to court next week regarding financial support, which I'm sure he isn't happy about, but who cares.

Okay, now you need to enter Plan B.
Have you read about plan B?

Yes. I did have one question....

I'm not waiting for H to end affair....I'm totally done at this point. How long does plan B last when your divorcing?

Plan B doesn't end even after divorce...unless something happened that made reconciliation a safe possibility where EP's are put into place.

Dr. Harley would encourage you to be in Plan B until divorce, and then continue having no direct contact with him after divorce...

But lets focus on Plan B during divorce...

Do you have an IM?

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Do you have an IM?