I am the cheater in my marriage, but there are some very ridiculous circumstances.
First off, my wife and I have known each other since we were both 15 years old. We dated in Jr. High,, broke up, she moved away, moved back home, she found a man and had 2 kids, and I went away to college and moved across the country, we reconnected on MySpace (anyone remember that?), she was already going through a divorce, and I fell in love immediately talking to her. I moved home, and we started living together almost immediately (mostly because my family was a train wreck in the house I grew up in. My mom eventually commited suicide) We were a wonderful couple, her children (1 and 2 yrs old) took to me right away and have always treated me like a 2nd father. After 4 years of being together, we got married, started moving around to find a good school district for my daughter (step-daughter), and both started getting busier lives. We bought a house, had 2 mis-carriages for our own child, then finally had a stressful full term pregnancy and had a beautiful baby boy... I started coaching, and going to school to become a teacher, she became an exercise instructor and took the rest of her time to tend to our infant son We became too busy, never seeing each other and living more like roommates. We stopped having sex because the baby would sleep with us 80% of the time. I felt needy and was too afraid to tell my wife that my eyes were beginning to wander. Then, I started receiving attention from a teenager in our church- We innocently became FB friends, but then began flirting and and I would sext her on the computer. I did kiss this girl once, at a church function... This girl was troubled (boy-crazy?) and went missing (presumably with another man?) and some how her mother stumbled across my messages while they were looking for her... she came home eventually- I was investigated and charged. I lost everything, my coaching job, my regular job, I had to quit school, and fess up to my wife that I had been unfaithful to her. She initially threw me out and wanted to know everything (what I said, what I did, my intentions). I told her that I had forgotten what I had wrote (I had deleted the messages on my end), but that I knew it would be bad. And that she would leave me. We started to try to reconcile, and eventually got pretty close, started having great sex, and long talks about what to do. I felt confident that we could at least get on the road to fixing it. I felt that my attention seeking may be addictive as I had been flirty with others. What I did not know is that while I was sleeping, my wife hacked my emails and found other things (older things that I had forgotten in an email account that I no longer used) That was the beginning of the end. Then on Sept 11th I formally charged with messing with a minor (again no sex was had and I did not molest this girl nor did I intend to, it was just supposed to be talk and fantasy and I would get a high from the attention). My wife secretly went to the magistrate after my hearing and got her hands on the affidavit which has the "evidence" as to probable cause, and the dirty, stupid messages I had wrote. When I spoke to her in the afternoon that day, she was really angry, saying that I had lied to her for the last time and that she was divorcing me. I moved out and am living in an apartment off of my fathers garage. I have tried several times to try to get her to get her back, but every time I do she tells me angrily that there will NEVER be a chance for that, that I just need to be a good dad. She brings my son over often to see me, but she personally has nothing to do with me. I don't blame her. However, I love her very very much, I realize every moment what I have lost, and because of the length and relative special relationship her and I have shared for most of our lives-- I am beyond upset. I know I did wrong, and deserve whatever I get, but I want her back \, I want my family, and that's all that matters to me. I have already begun to change, and just recently have started to give her her space and not attack her with begging and pleading. Everyone tells me that if there is a chance it will only be after time, and I will have to prove that I have changed. I have started working out, I talk to no women, I have started reading my bible, I go to counseling, and I pray. In the end, I don't think it will be enough. But, forever is a long time, and she is what I want. There is one last thing, she has this friend, (a guy) who she confides in and has known for a long time like me. But they were "pen pals" as kids and have stayed in touch as friends. But he was there (and they shared a "moment", during her first divorce, and I was greeted to the news that she will be flying out to Idaho to see him in November) I of course think that she will sleep with him this time. She tells me that I don't own her and she is no longer my wife. (We are still married, tho I did get the notice of certified letter in the mail today, so I am guessing those are my divorce papers.) I have no idea what to do, and I don't expect much, I am at fault here, completely. I am trying to be strong, and taking the steps to change. Any other advice I can find for this strange situation would be wonderful. As this is unique, nothing I have read really fits this... Can this be fixed?

You should contact the moderators and have this thread moved to Surviving an Affair. Just tap the notify button and ask that it be moved.

Welcome to Marriage Builders. You have come to the right place for help.

You situation is actually not all that unique as affairs go. You allowed others outside your marriage to meet your emotional needs. There are steps you need to take for recovery, whether that recovery includes the restoration of your marriage or not. Have you read the book "Surviving an Affair"? If not, you should. Check out the introductory thread in Surviving an Affair for additional resources.

Your marriage started as a relationship while she was still married, and now she is in a new relationship while still married to you. It is hard to see how you can convince her that her current behaviour is wrong.

Yes, this.
Plus, you lived together before marriage which created yet another hurdle for you and your wife.
Plus you need to stop acting on erotic urges towards minors. It is illegal, abusive and purely sad (for the children and for you). Stop making excuses for this horrible thing you participated in.

Beyond that, read all the concepts and info you can on this site and try to be a better man. Then, your future will be rosier.

It is likely your wife fears for the safety of your stepdaughter in a future that involves you.

Also, should you get back together, this situation permanently changes your wife's life as she now must ALWAYS feel responsible for supervising you in her home, making sure you are not alone with her daughter or any of her daughters' friends.

I don't mean to add to your pain and worries as you seem very remorseful, but this is her new reality in a future with you.

Im not making excuses for what I did- I understand what I did... It would not have mattered if she was 16 or 30, it was the attention I was seeking. Believe me, this is all very new to me. It is very wrong and I am about to pay the price from the state for it... I have no urges toward my step-daughter or her friends, my wife understands that. Also, this guy she is visiting is supposed to be a plutonic friend meant to clear her head (Im not so sure about that now tho)

also, this thing she is in is not a relationship, plus she was already in the process of her divorce when I came along...

You were "seeking attention" from children? How old is your stepdaughter?

What other things did she find and how many minors have you trifled with?

And what is the actual charge? "messing with a minor" sounds very much like the language of weasel.

messing with a minor= "corruption of a minor"
they were "messages" and one kiss
she is 16
yes I was wrong, very, very wrong
and this girl was the only one (truthfully)
My step-daughter is 10. There has never been an issue with her, not once.
I am not looking for children =(
This girl flirted with me for months, I was missing something and finally allowed it to happen. I should've told my wife, and also told her that something was missing in our relationship...

Wife found websites (dating sites) from before I was even dating her in an email I don't use. Also found "I miss you" to a confidant I know in Colorado. A friend and nothing more. Also checked browsing history which included porn, (regular not child if that's where you are going) You can call me a weasel if you want to, but I have tried to own this mistake... I have not run from this and have tried my best to be honest.

A young girl flirts with a grown, married man (YOU) for months because you LET HER flirt with you for months. A grown, married man (YOU)has no business being anywhere close enough for a young girl to flirt with him...one time is too many times.

Were you in a position of authority over this youngster ? Were you her teacher, coach, youth pastor ?

A remorseful grown, married man (YOU)does not blame his victims.

By the way. I was a 16 year old youngster when my teacher/coach pursued me...told me he loved me and wanted to marry me...it very nearly ruined my life.

Yes I agree with all the above statements. I am not placing blame on anyone... I am the adult, I should know better.

No I was none of those things, it started as small talk-

I do not want her (the girl), as I mentioned it was 99% an online thing which does not make it any better-however in the moment it seems a lot less terrible when you are securely behind a computer. I know I deserve to be bashed here.

You can be sure that I am not a threat to children, I made a mistake. I am about to pay the price (and have already practically lost everything) I just want my family back...

What Extraordinary Precautions would you put in place to make her feel safe being married to you?

Email Dr. Harley.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

I am not trying to bash you, but I am trying to get you to see your situation for what it is.

Radical Honesty is one of the essential components of recovery. There is good reason to question if you are being honest with yourself, much less your spouse or anybody else. It is not normal for grown men to be attracted to young teens. Actually acting on that attraction is evidence to the outside world that 1) the pedophilia exists and 2) the pedophile is losing control. If you want your wife to buy in to a recovery program with you, you are going to need to be radically honest. A good place to start is to be honest with yourself.

I have been honest with myself about this and with my therapist/counselor. It was the attention that gave me the high not where it came from, the girl could have been 15 or 35, and in my broken moments, I took the bait.

I have taken the precautions to start bettering myself mentally by seeing a therapist, I am reading my bible, I have eliminated all social networking sites (even as I am alone 99% of the time now being separated) I don't want to watch porn or anything. I can barely stomach to look at another woman. I miss my best friend, my lover, and confidant... My family is my world, and I feel like my problem was almost mid life crisis/psychotic break, mental illness runs in my family... My mother and father were both drunks, mom killed herself, dad went cold-turkey and bettered himself. All these years I tried tried to be nothing like them... turns out I have fallen into depression. I am also taking mood changing medication which helped with me slowing down and thinking my way through situations as opposed to reacting to every urge.

I am positive I would treat my wife like a goddess moving forward, spending every moment I could trying to make up for all of this hell I have put everyone though. I mean that.

Neither you nor your wife seem to have much past history of appreciating boundaries in marriage. She was corresponding with you while she was still married to her first husband. Now the shoe's on the other foot, and you don't like it so well. Chalk that up as a 'teachable moment.'

Which 'this'? Your marriage; or your sense of boundaries?

Regarding the marriage, I can't tell you that your marriage can't be fixed, but only because it's very hard to prove a future negative -- like proving that you won't be able to walk on water sometime next Tuesday.

However, I can tell you from direct, personal experience that shredding one's own credibility via an affair is a very hard thing for a marriage to overcome, and that healing a marriage is a challenging path even in the very best of circumstances. I had (if one can ever describe a post-affair situation this way) pretty much the 'best' of circumstances: My wife & I had shared a mostly happy 16-year marriage before the affair; we both wanted to save the marriage; the affair had been brief & ended quickly once it was revealed; it had been the only one; my wife & I never separated; we had supportive mutual friends & we weren't confiding unaccompanied to people of the opposite sex; we both had good jobs & thus no real financial strain; there were no law-enforcement aspects, in contrast to your situation; at least one of us (my wife) had no history of weak boundaries while married; and within 4 days of the affair's being revealed, we found a solid counselor who relied on MarriageBuilders approaches to marital recovery.

Jay, your & your wife's stars aren't aligned that way. You have very little working in your favor. This makes marital recovery a lot less likely.

Enough for what? More important than changing your marriage is changing yourself. You can't be a good husband to anyone until you get your own act together, until you get your own boundaries straight. (I'm not even sure you can be a good dad until you do those things.) I don't see you fixing this marriage, but if it happens, it'll be because of changes you make in you. You potentially have a better chance of fixing your boundaries, because that's in your complete control. You can't control your wife's decisions or actions.

And controlling your wife's decisions ought not to be your motivation for maintaining proper boundaries, reading the Bible & praying, working out, or anything else you do to get yourself squared-away. Rather, you should be doing those things so that you will be the best Jay52 you can be, each day. Change isn't a costume you put on in order to get what you want, to win the approbation of family or church-members. Change isn't an internet persona that you log onto in order to gratify your wants. Change isn't change unless it changes you to your core.

Yes we realise that, but it�s easier to get attention from children isn�t it? You targeted them, or failed to remove yourself from immature come-ons, because it�s easier to seduce a little girl than a wised-up woman who would realise she was being used. It�s happened twice, so I think you should admit you have a problem with minors. One which you can�t control.

If your ex wife was a friend of mine I would tell her to avoid you because you target the vulnerable. You got together with her when she was going through a divorce!!! That is a terribly vulnerable time and you had no business taking advantage of her unhappiness and meddling in the end of a marriage.

I don�t think you are safe around this woman�s step daughter or her friends. I believe you are not attracted to them right now but you could be if one of them started paying you the attention you crave. And that�s what teenagers do. They push buttons.

Like an alcoholic, you have to remove yourself from conditions which led to previous backslides. Alcoholics can�t hang out in bars and you cannot ever be a teenage girl�s step dad.

I think you just have to accept you had no right interefering in this woman�s life when she was going through a divorce and you have no right to a place there now. Her family come first.

You can do much better by waiting for a woman who is not vulnerable and waits until she is ready to begin new relationships. If you work on your own issues first.

But if you go back into a situation involving access to teenage girls, you�re going to groom one of them again, reoffend and fall back into your addiction for cheap teenage adoration. It will probably get physical with the child next time. Recovery is not good idea here.

After the first offence I bet you promised yourself you would do better in future, right? Well do it properly this time. You can't if you are around teenage girls.

In the UK were I live it would not be legal for your wife to take you back following your convictions because you would not be allowed near her daughter. She would lose her child. What are the laws regarding future access to children where you live?

Hey, Jay - good intentions are a great start, but you would not believe the tragedies we have seen here that started with good intentions and "100% confident and positive" that they would never do it again and would be the perfect husband this time.

Heck, I came here positive I'd be the best husband in the world and it still took me a couple years to finally get that sorta right.

Anyway, have the humility to realize that you have a lot of education to go through and a lot of changes to make and a lot of new habits to form and a lot of DANGEROUS old habits to prevent. You are by no means a finished work. Start improving daily, and here is one of your first keys to doing that:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/

If you were able to try again in your marriage, would you be okay with your wife hacking and keeping tabs on you online from now on? Would you be okay with her doing whatever it takes to secretly observe you and your activities, anywhere, any time?

Because really - that's a basic requirement for a good marriage:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8121_snoop.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html

jay, do you own the book Surviving an Affair, by Dr. Harley? Most of your situation is addressed by the principles Dr. Harley puts in that book.

Yes, the book markos mentioned is essential.

As far as the legal ramifications of the teenager situation, that is something a qualified lawyer in your state will know more about than anyone on a forum.

Dr. Harley has stated that marriages that start as affairs (and according to MB that means married at all...even if the divorce is in process because it is not yet final, ergo still married) are difficult, and he has some not very hopeful statistics about them. HOWEVER, Dr. Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders does take on people whose marriages began this way as clients and does seek to help them in reconciliation. So I would say following the principles that Dr. Harley set forth would be a very good things for you, seeing as he himself has used them WITH couples whose marriages began the ways yours did.

I also encourage you to write him.

The statistics that he cites are related to what he classifies as "affairages." An affairage is a relationship that broke up a marriage. Those relationships are typically doomed because they are based on deceit and thoughtlessness and characterized by the fog. Those traits are not present, though, in affairs that began after a marriage has broken up but before the divorce was final. I asked him about this specifically because my current relationship started AFTER my XH left me for an OW and filed for divorce, but did not break up my marriage. It is still an affair because I was not technically divorced, but does not fall in the same category as an affairage.

If the object is to avoid the consequences, then a lawyer is a good resource. If the object is to be safe around kids, then that's a different story.

Saying that the attention could have come from anybody in no way negates the fact that it came from a young teenager. Normal men do not seek or accept the attention of young teenagers. Denying and minimizing the significance of this fact only makes the situation more dangerous. Total accountability should be a fact of life from now on. Jay needs to think of ways that he can demonstrate such accountability. That would start by accepting the seriousness of the problem and accepting the fact that he shouldn't be trusted around kids anymore.

You need to identify the root of your problem, why you seek attention from somebody so young? Your mistake of looking outside of marrige after the birth of a child is something I share with you. In my case my wife later had an affair, and only after this is she able to begin to forgive me for looking at escort sites. Your sitaution is more complicated due to the legal issues and the overal humilation your wife probably feels.

When you understand the root of the problem, you might have a chance to win her back, if she finds she is inclined to consider it, but you have to respect her wishes. Divorce is within her rights under the circumstances.

Do pay attention to being a good father. You can win points back with her by showing dedication as a dad. It might not be enough to win her back, but it won't hurt. Anyway it is essential for your son to have you in his life.

NO, he needs to make it IMPOSSIBLE, immediately, to protect the young! If he wants to spend time afterward analyzing why he felt that way, that'll be fine, but it won't really help his marriage or his life. But there's no time for that - there are innocents that need to be protected.

SOLUTION: practice radical transparency in your life and don't spend time alone or communicate privately with people of the opposite sex that you are not married to.

The root of the problem is poor boundaries.

Almost any man would enjoy attention from an attractive looking young woman. That's why every man should avoid those situations!

I don't spend time analyzing why I would enjoy attention from teenage girls. Instead I avoid spending time with teenage girls!

I just want to emphasize that this "identify the reason you act this way" approach is something Dr. Harley recommends against.

Enjoying female attention and flirtation is something most men would enjoy. Dr. Harley has stated that it is normal for many men to simply want to go to bed with every woman they see! It's normal for men to like looking at women, talking with women, sleeping with women. That's a perfectly normal desire. And a typical 16 year old girl is as enjoyable and normal a target as any - only much more vulnerable.

There's nothing in the world abnormal about a man craving sexual experiences and fantasy with other women.

There's a million reasons NOT to do so, though.

#1 - the absolute most important reason: it would cause unbearable pain to your wife!
#2 - another wonderful reason not to do this: the unbearable pain it will cause your children
* the pain it will cause your victim, their family
* legal consequences
* religious/spiritual consequences

I could go on and on adding to this list.

Dr. Harley has stated that he himself would certainly enjoy things like polygamy or looking at porn - but that the main reason he doesn't do such things is because it would be offensive to his wife, Joyce.

There's no need to go get psychoanalyzed. The need is to learn new behaviors that prevent this kind of thing from happening. Don't have teenage girl friends! Keep your life open and transparent and accountable!

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2311122#Post2311122


That about says it all. There are some conditions under which anyone can be trusted - there are some conditions under which nobody can be trusted! Fraternizing alone with 16 year old girls is a condition under which no man should be trusted. I would encourage my wife to NEVER trust me to carry on private conversations with teenage girls at church. It's incredibly dangerous.

I don't believe Dr. Harley intended his principles to be used for the purpose of helping a pedophile restore his relationship with the mother of a minor girl. You do not increase a child's risk of being sexually abused in order to restore a marriage. A pedophile cannot be married to a woman who has a minor daughter. Period.

When a betrayed husband comes on here, if he has young daughters, at least one person would pipe up and say "Drive this man away! He has poor boundaries, keep him away from your daughters!"

Well, here he is. Here is OM.

OP, it is my own opinion that you should allow this marriage to end. You have committed a serious offence and quite frankly, don't seem to realize the gravity of it. You are a danger to your step-daughters or your step-daughter's friends.

I would recommend speaking with the Harleys personally, but I don't personally feel you are in any condition to be married to ANYONE let alone a woman with young daughters.

I hope to God that you are not still in teacher training or looking for a similar career. You need professional help.

Your wife seeking out other men is WRONG, do not think this excuses it, but this marriage should be over - IMO.

There are cases where if a woman has wanted to stay with such a man Dr. Harley has had them reconcile but stay separated until the minor children are grown and out of the house.

I certainly wouldn't recommend the wife try it in this case until Jay has done a lot of work. I would certainly recommend that Jay TRY to do that work. He has a minor child with this woman.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+7%3A36-50&version=NIV

Thanks alis, I had drafted a post earlier to this man and thought "what am I doing?" As a father of a teenage DD I get chills thinking about what would happen if my WW would have left me and taken DD to live with creepy, sleezy POSOM. It's already a fact that step-children are more likely to be abused by step-parents, but with his history, BW should RUN.

You know, you have a chance at happiness, following professional help. But I get the sense that it only stopped at kissing by sheer dumb luck. I wouldn't trust you near my DD. No sir.

Make this your wake-up-call, do your BW a favor and agree to an uncontested D, get help, and THEN find an understanding woman with no young children.

Also, there are more people reading this thread than just the OP. Already at least one FWH has posted and shown some a couple of risky ideas - this was a great chance for him (and others) to learn what Marriage Builders says about that.

I have no idea how far the OP could go if he picks up the information here and runs with it - but I know that if he doesn't, he will surely wind up in a worse place in life than if he tries. As I said, there are other innocents at risk that this man needs to learn to protect from himself.

I believe the OP should contact the Harley's directly for the best advice honestly. He is the trained professional and this is not as cut and dry as some of you are trying to make it seem.

CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED! BW has a daughter of her own and the couple has a child together. You guys are being a bit quick to discount that.

Yes, Jay you have issues you need to remedy and work your tail off at correcting but if I was you I would contact Dr. Harley who is an experienced professional in dealing with infidelity and other psychiatric issues.

I'm not sure who is making it cut and dry.


Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure who is discounting that.

This guy needs to live under transparency and radical honesty for the rest of his life.

I understand that, what I'm talking about is the people saying he should not try to repair the marriage and should not be in the relationship because of the teenage stepdaughter. He has his own child in the relationship as well and just telling him to leave and abandon the relationship is bad advice IMO. Children need two stabile parents in a home, now he needs to become a stable parent and maybe being separated until he fits the bill would be a good idea but telling him to pack up and jump ship and leave his own child is ridiculous.

And I agree that regardless if its in this relationship or a new one, EP's based on MB concepts should be definitely implemented along with Radical Honesty. He must protect his spouse as well as himself from infidelity.

Oh - thanks for clarifying, TX - I totally misread you!

Don't mind me, I think I'm illiterate today....

Locked until further notice.