Just like the song says...

Guess I'll get started.

I've been with my wife for 20yrs overall...married for 15 of that. We've both had deep routed resentment towards each other for many of our married years for different reasons on each side. I'm also not going to say it's been one sided. We've both made mistakes...hurt each other in our own way.

BUT the last 3yrs have been extremely difficult. It seems just when I started to really listen to her needs and tried to work on them (communication of course being the biggy) and things seemed to be better....she had an affair. We went to counseling...and I guess the damage of yrs past made her hate me enough to have an affair. Of course I was devestated and have been in pain for much of the 3yrs following...not really being a nice guy since I hated her for doing that to me. I sought counseling on my own (got a lot of nothing that helped)...couples counseling (also didn't help). She blamed me...I blamed her. So to make a long story short...she had another affair...this one with a co-worker.

I hate her friends for enabling and helping her as well. I just don't feel I can ever trust her again. I was fully ready to divorce her...but I can never seem to leave her...I love her that much...and sometimes wish I didn't so it would be easier to leave.

So this time I'm doing what I said I was going to do the last time (and I really only caught her twice...but think there were others)...I'm separating and moving out while we attempt to work on it.

I guess I'm always at a crossroads. Do I stay after 2 affairs and possibly others...and who knows....maybe more down the line...or just cut my losses and leave this marriage. Even her own friends wonder why I have stayed. They think I have some ulterior motive or something other than I have children and love my wife.

G

HH,

Gather all the evidence that you have and expose these affairs, first to the spouses and girlfriends of these OM, then to the families/churches/workplaces of the OMs.

Do not warn, threaten, or delay just do it, state the facts as they are, if someone asks why tell them you are doing this to save your marriage.

God Bless
Gamma

Do not move out !!! Separation makes things harder and you can face abandonment accusations if you divorce.

The tough question you have to answer. Do you want your marriage to recover? Think hard before answering.

I'm sorry for the reasons that brought you here...

You're not crazy for wanting to recover your marriage. Lots of people on this forum have done just that using MB principles.

You have children together and a long history, so logically, saving your marriage makes sense. But it will take both you doing ALL the steps to recover. Recovering from an affair is a very narrow path.

Have you read the first sticky thread on this forum called "Start Here?" If not, go and read it, okay?

Ia your wife's affair over?

Don't move out of your home! It's very important that you stay in your home and eliminate ALL your love busters. Do you have angry outbursts? Stop them all right away. No selfish demands; no disrespectful judgments.

There are a few conditions for recovery after an affair:

1.) No contact FOR LIFE with affair partner.

2.) Eliminate ALL the conditions of the affair.

3.) Just Compensation: learning to meet each others needs and eliminate love busters in order to create a marriage that is better than it ever was before. Agreeing to the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty.

Is your marital counselor using MB principles in her approach to your problems in marriage?

Don't move out. That's a good way to become a visitor to your children.

If she wants to move out, don't allow her to take the children.

Other good advice has already been provided. Use it.

I have plenty of evidence on the 2 that I know of and would do what you suggest...but my wife's affairs have been with divorced men (wonder why they are divorced). I guess she doesn't want to be a home-wrecker herself.

I've discussed the whole abandonment with my lawyer, and it is a non-issue (at least in my state) as far as being used against me in a divorce. As for the kids...I'll still see them everyday and work out of the house and have dinner here. I just don't want to be here with her at night. Additionally even if she moved out...she can still take the kids as long as we are married. I've also discussed this with my lawyer (as well as some police friends). I could do the same thing if the kids were willing to leave with me. Until both parties are divorced and custody agreements in place...it doesn't matter.

As for the question...that I don't know yet...which is another reason to move out so I can put some distance between us and think long and hard about it.

If you move out of your home, it will simply show your wife how little you care. Dr. Harley does not recommend that men move out of their homes if they want to recover their marriage. He says men have the stamina necessary to meet their spouse's emotional needs without much reciprocation for a long while without hurting their health.

Are your wife's affairs over? If so, when did they end?

To the rest of the posts...yes I've read through the information on this site that you are referring to and wish I had seen it after affair #1. Reason for posting was I didn't see anything on dealing with multiple affairs...although maybe the same...BUT I'm hurting inside even more now.

Has she stopped the affair? Well she says she has like anyone would say. Again...my trust bucket is empty at the moment so I don't know what to believe.

Sometimes I wonder if I am wasting my time. I know one thing...if I divorce...there will be no 2nd marriage. I see this all too often. No offense to the women on this site...but the women of today seem to want everything without giving themselves. I've done a great deal for my wife and family that goes unnoticed and I've also been lonely in my marriage and have had plenty of chances to have an affair myself...but chose not to.

HH,

Does not matter that they are divorced, make sure the entire world knows what they did, your WW needs to be taught that there are consequences not just for WW but for her affair partners as well.

God Bless
Gamma

Blind trust is what led to this mess and is never advocated by MB. Living a transparent integrated life with our spouses will make an affair just about impossible. We should ALL be living with Extraordinary Precautions. Is your wife willing to institute EPs in her life?

EPs - no friendships of the opposite sex. A transparent and integrated life; no nights spent apart.

The reason your wife had an affair (s) is because she allowed someone else to meet her needs. When we marry, we must close the love bank to all others.

You really can't go wrong giving marital recovery a couple of years. But you will need to fully follow all the steps.

And it's not just the "women of today" who are selfish. Only about 20% of all marriages are actually happy. People today want a lot without having to give back. Marriages of modern times are becoming more and more fragile.

When did her last affair end? Where did she meet these OMs? At the workplace?

Every condition that led to her affairs needs to be eliminated. Have you and she done this?

Abandonment doesn't come into play in no fault states for the DIVORCE but does come into play when child custody is considered. If you want custody of your kids, DO NOT MOVE OUT.

This is pretty far gone, I will admit it, but you have a slight chance at saving this if a) you expose her affair and b) you don't move out. Moving out will make it much harder for you to recover your marriage and it WILL give your wife a distinct legal advantage. You will also make it easy for her to bring men into your home. Are you ok with another man taking your place in the home?

It is sad that your marriage never recovered from the 1st affair. But you do have a chance if you will be pro-active.

How old are your kids?

How do you know her OM is divorced?

m

It very much is taken into account. If anyone leaves, it should be the wayward spouse. You don't want to leave your children like that. You are all they have!

K...all good feedback and questions...keep them coming.

Here are some answers:
I know they are both divorced because I know who they are and everything about them...including this detail.

Affair#1 was from her high school yrs and it started after seeing him at a high school reunion 3yrs ago.
Affair#2 was a coworker from last yr. She supposedly no longer works in the same office as him.

As far as the moving out...nothing official will be on the books to use against me...I'm in my house every day...leave at night once kids in bed...back in the morning before they wake up. Living with my brother so no rental agreements. It would be my word against hers as far as that is concerned.

As far her having another man in my house...she would never...my kids are there.

My kids are 14(girl) & 11(boy).

You know it was blind trust because well...I trusted her not to do that. Stupid me. And I understand. No friends of the opposite sex I agree and this is how it always happens. I've said that from the beginning...yet she thinks there is no problem with it. Oh but she doesn't want me to have female friends...heaven forbid. She must think I'm like her.

You know this is all sounding like this is a big waste of my time and I should divorce since she will NEVER meet all the criteria to be affair proof. I have no problem with it...but she will eventually even if she tried and would grow to resent me for it.

My heart is telling me over and over again just move on and go. She keeps pulling me back and stupid me I keep coming back for more. This last time I was fully ready to pull the trigger...about a month ago...and she started crying...and I let my guard down. I'm really starting to think that I am co-dependent.

I am confused why you think she wouldn't have a man in the house? What is there to stop her? The 14 year old girl? Would she stop her?

Do the kids know about her affairs? If not, they should be told everything.

You have every right to leave this marriage, and if I were in your shoes, I would make that choice. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you don't have a small chance at saving this.

If you do want to save it, you should not move out. I am not sure why you want to move out, though. Why is that?

This is the first bit of advice I got coming on this forum and it has changed my life for the better. If you want to save your marriage stay in your marital home and sleep in your marital bed. If you want a divorce move out. Please take this awesome advice to heart.

There aren't alot of serial cheater success stories on the forums here. I'm on month three of my hopefull recovery. I will say that the only way I was going to recover after affair number two would be if my W drove the recovery bus.

If your WW won't even agree to not having OS friends, that's a terrible start. However, if you take the steps outlined above she MAY come around. The hardest part for me was stopping the lovebusting, but once I did, my W was in the driver's seat.

I exposed the h377 out of the A's so everyone know my W is a repeat offender. They all thought I had other motives for staying too. I guess staying for the kids was motive enough for me. That, and I didn't want to loose half my assets that I built from the ground up (including my military pension). I'm glad I stayed because it's great to be in love again, but I would be lying if I said that's why I stayed.

EDIT: Please listen to the radio show today. Dr. Harly will be talking to a former serial cheating WW about her recovery and plans to make sure it doesn't happen again. It may provide you with some insight.

Hey MindMonkey...good read

Yeah...I wouldn't expect the success rate for marriages with serial cheaters to be very high...lol.

What do you mean by "The hardest part for me was stopping the lovebusting" ?

Yes...same situation as well...I've pretty much been staying for the kids primarily...with my finances (which I also built from the ground up) being a not so distance 2nd. Although it must be the kids only...since I would have left this time around if no kids and take the finance blow and start over.

A tough one for me is why should I let her have the fun and I get the pain and still work on the marriage.

Here's some other things that kill me:
1. She wants me to forgive and be sociable towards her "divorced" female friends that have helped her in her affairs...she's even been so bold to have introduced them to her friends. And she wants me to apologize to her friend that I went through her phone at my house (because she was too drunk to drive home that night...really great huh...and only reason I even knew her phone was there was because her 14 yo daughter was calling to see where she was) which is how I confirmed Affair#2. I told her no f@$$ing way. I'm no pushover this time.

2. Wants me to drive this bus...telling me that the way I acted the last 3yrs towards her drove her to affair#2...yeah...because I was P'sd...duh.

Another question regarding this "I exposed the h377 out of the A's so everyone know my W is a repeat offender."
Exposed how and to who?

Your bro from another mo!

No one could technically stop her...but I know she is not that bold. She wouldn't do that to the kids. And no the kids don't know and don't need to know at this young age. They'll find out some day on their own when they are adults...it's inevitable. It just happens. Additionally she knows I would divorce her in a heartbeat if she did that plus more.

Reason for moving out is two fold:
1. So I don't have to see her that often and can hopefully find some peace and be able to think about what I really want to do here without her being there in my face and of course...me getting angry. Don't forget this is #2...and I remember what happened after #1. Call it experience.

2. So she knows I'm serious this time and I'm not screwing around. The fact of moving out and that I have and have seen a lawyer this time around has her knowing I'm dead serious...either straighten up or I'm outta here.

And like I said...I really just do not know whether I am willing to save it or not yet. I keep thinking that she will never change and I am just wasting my time like I said. Also like I said...if my kids were out of the house...I would divorce her in a heartbeat.

Have you read or ordered Love Busters and Surviving the Affair by Dr. Harley. Those books lay the ground work to the advice you will receive on the forum. They are cheap on amazon.com.

While she never blamed me for her affair, she blamed me for the conditions of the marriage before the affair, which I half own. For 15 years I was pretty disrespectful. Nothing huge but after 15 years she just didn't love me anymore. I had a hard time bing respectful at first for two reasons.

1. I had done it for so long, it became a habit. A hard to break habit.

2. SHE HAD SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN! It was hard to look at her with anything but disgust, let alone be respectful.

After a few weeks (about a month) I was able to stop being disrespectful consistantly. She fell back in love since I've always met her emotional needs, just needed to stop the lovebusting (marriage builders speak for being a jerk to your spouse).


Boy do I hear you there. After the second one I was sure that if I had a close female friend, I would have started a revenge affair. It seemed like if she got to lay down in other men's bed, I should get to have some of that fun too.

She told me something that stuck with me. She said, "this was anything but fun. And I don't mean just the sex. Yes, it's true what they say about [certain ethnicity]'s junk. It's that small. I really had no idea. The sex was horrible and not worth it. But what made it not fun was the stress of the addiction, always needing to get my fix. Staying up to three AM texting him. Trying to keep my story strait with you. Creating an alternate history with family and friends. Loosing faith in myself as a good person."

Or, something like that. Yes, once she was out of the fog of the affair, what she saw in the mirror was anything but fun.


Don't do that. Everyone that helped in her affair needs to go. I would make that a condition of recovery. My W took the added step of admonishing the "friends" that enabled her affair with a formal letter. They have not responded.


MelodyLane has an exposure link in her sig line. It's critical to ending the affair. My W had ended the affair the moment I found out but there was still value in exposing the affair. It makes it less likely for them to recontact. You kind of have to decide who to expose to. Standard answer is all family, clergy, friends that have an ability to sway her, workplace (if it's a workplace A), and most important your children. Same on the side of the OM. You can always go nuclear and expose to all his/her Facebook friends. I wouldn't fault you for that, but since my wife ended the affair (and we moved 4000 miles away) I don't think her second grade teacher needed to know. If there is ANY chance that the affair is active, or she's putting it on hold, go NUCLEAR! You never know who can snap her out of lala land.

That is right where I would start. Your children need to be told all about her affairs. Lying to your children about the source of tension makes the problem 100x worse and leaves them confused.

Secondly, she WOULD do that to the kids. Make no mistake about it. Ad she will do that if you move out


How angry will you be when she moves her lover into your bed and you are not allowed in your house? You cannot even imagine but that is where you are headed.


But if you move out then you are "outta here." Moving out only facilitates her affair. You are going to be shocked to discover that she will happy to replace you. You won't teach anything, you are just making room for her OM to take your place.

Hurting_Husband, I can't recommend enough that you use this program. Part of using it means willing to concede that you aren't the expert. Most of us ended up at MB because well, we didn't know everything. There were problems. It's funny how sometimes we think we know how to fix these things from an extremely biased perspective, when the state of the marriage clearly shows otherwise. That's not just you, btw, that's me and everyone else here

You are making a few mistakes that will hurt you in the long run - first, moving out. Yes, I know you have your reasons, but you must understand that for women especially, when men "give space", to us, it means they just don't care. It is a justification she can use - "see? He left ME. He left the kids".

Two- not telling your children. First off, they know something is wrong, but what? You sit there and leave them guessing? Daddy just moves out because...? And mom starts hanging out with new guys because...? They need to know what is happening.

Women who have affairs aren't necessarily looking for casual sex, they are looking for replacements. You are making it mighty easy for her to bring in a new man to this house. You don't think she will do this? I'm sure you didn't think she would do all those other things either.

Gotcha on the lovebusting now. I was definitely being a "lovebuster" after #1...and the reason she said she did #2. And same reasons here for #1 happening in the 1st place. Surprisingly I'm not really being a lovebuster after #2. Almost seems easier after I've already been through it once.

Same here on the part about a revenge affair. Thought about it after #1...didn't. REALLY thinking about it after #2...haven't. My wife said the same things after her #1...but this time on #2 I'm to blame and don't see the same hurt from her.

Yes agree...I've written them off and will never apologize or be friendly with them again...BUT she never will. She doesn't have many female friends and told me that this is important to her to move forward. I said I don't care what you think and if that is the case I'll file now then and not work on it. This one is as-is for now.

Wow...read the exposure 101...that's some hardcore stuff. I've had my convo's with both of the OP's...you can take a guess at how those convo's went. And the rest of it...wow...that would piss her off...prob to the point of her saying that she is done which is why I haven't. BUT now on the OP's side...again I wish they were married...the joy in that one...but they are not...but I do like the idea of telling their friends and parents...mostly the parents since their friends are scumbags like them also so what would be the point there. And church...lol...highly doubt it for either of them. Problem with Facebook is they are both locked down...so I can't see their friends...so kinda tough there. I've been looking for a site where I could expose them and have the world see them for what they are...and have strangers some at them with some choice words.

I have to say MindMonkey...talking to you has been a big help. Keep with me and I will you since I could use a com padre in this this time. Additionally I have a great respect for you as well as our friends and family in the military. A big hats off to you for protecting this great country.

Side note...how do I use the snippets from past posts and talk to just those. Not seeing an option of how. Will look under FAQ's as well.

"Wow...read the exposure 101...that's some hardcore stuff. I've had my convo's with both of the OP's...you can take a guess at how those convo's went. And the rest of it...wow...that would piss her off...prob to the point of her saying that she is done which is why I haven't. "

But the goal is to save your marriage and protect your children, NOT to avoid her anger at any and all cost. If all of your decisions are made with that goal you will lose it all.

If you want to have ANY hope at all of saving your marriage, you should expose her affair. You should do it even if you don't want to save it as a therapeutic step for you all.

Ok, here's the skinny. At first, my W said that if I exposed her to "friends" and OM at work, our recovery was NOT happening...she was leaving. Right now, I can't convince her that she ever said that. Really? She has NO recollection of EVER saying that. In fact, now she is pushing ME to expose HIM to EVERYONE. I've run out of people to tell. It's a good position to be in but man, why couldn't she realize he was a POS BEFORE she [expletive]ed him?

Waywards say the craziest things. It's your job to bring them back to what we all call "Earth".

Keep working and keep the faith. Your wife is somewhere in that alien abducted person that shares your bed. Find her, free her, and make it work.

Hey MindMonkey (and for the rest of you),

Here's my last post...

So it took me a while to figure out one last # that I needed to look up...and guess what...it's Affair#1 AGAIN....so let's see:
Affair#1
then Affair#2
then Affair#3...which didn't know about until today...is the same OM as Affair#1....WOW....What the F!!!!!!

Decision made easy....I'M DIVORCING HER!!!!!!

Good luck to the rest of you...but I'm DONE!!!!

HH, I am so sorry to hear this. However, please expose her affairs to everyone. Everyone should know what she is doing. Otherwise she will blame this all on you. Keeping her affairs a secret hurts everyone. Especially your children.

p.s. and you should not leave your home. Ask her to move out if you are done with the marriage. You don't even want to leave your children there with a fogged out, reckless wayward who WILL - YES SHE WILL - move her boyfriend right in behind you.

Make HER move out since she is at fault.

Not moving out...staying in MY home until the divorce is final.

Found my own way to expose..and maybe make it easier for the rest of you...first off there are two sites on Facebook now (can Google)...one for exposing a cheating wife...one for a husband...plus this one I found
***edit***

Plus rest assurred I will let others know about her and her scumbag OM. As for my kids...this I don't agree with...and never will no matter how much you say it. The truth will be told when they are older. The divorce will hurt them enough...no sense in throwing more at them at this young age. Plus I'm sure they will find out from someone who is told...it doesn't have to be from me. Once they are out of the house and in college...I'll have a convo with them about why I left.

She is too far gone and I'm done...it will be better for me...and my kids...since they will come over to my peaceful home which I know they will come to enjoy more than their mothers in time.

Exposing to children does not have to denigrate the WS.

it could be as simple as, Mommy's and Daddy's make a promise to each other when they get married and part of that promise is that they will not ever date anyone else.

Mommy is now dating xxx and that is the reason why we can not fix our marriage right now.

They need to know who is breaking up their family.

LTL

Perhaps you are correct about yourself and nothing anyone can say on this subject will change your mind, H_H, but I'm still going to choose to talk to you about it, and I hope you will listen to what I have to say.

I am a FWW. My affair was in 2005 -- 8 years ago -- My husband and I are happily recovered. In 2005 our daughter was only 5 -- the affair lasted 3 months and it was long distance at that. Mr. W and I assumed that our daughter didn't need to know at that time. We always said, as you have, that we would tell her later when she was older. That is not what happened. The truth comes out sooner or later -- really sooner IS better than later. As "later" goes though we were lucky in the fact that one of us got to tell her -- out of the blue one day when she was 12 she asked me this question: "Mom, have you ever cheated on Dad?" She is very inquisitive and enjoys asking hypothetical questions -- she does this a lot. It just about killed me, but I knew that I could not lie to her -- adultery itself is born of lies, and I want no part of that, so I was honest with her. I cannot tell you how angry she was about being kept in the dark -- how hard it was for her to go back and try to remember and piece together details from that time period. Although for us the affair had been a long time ago, for her it was as though it just happened. It was very traumatic. It took awhile, and a lot of apologies, but finally she is okay. We are okay. Children can survive the truth. Lies and cover-ups cause damage.

Spare your children that, H_H. Be honest with them NOW. Don't let them wonder why this is happening. Don't put the welfare and moral guidance of your children in the hands of others -- that is your job, Sir. Showing your children that you value truth and honesty is so very important. Leading by example is a very powerful message to children -- they watch what we do even more than they listen to what we say. Show them that you are honorable by honoring them with the truth, H_H.

Please think carefully about this very important issue.

Mrs. W

Please reconsider exposing the affair to your children. When I told my children last year, my 14-year was relieved. The first thing she said was that she thought it (the tension/possible divorce) was HER fault.

You hurt your kids by keeping this vital information from them. Kids are not made happy or secure by believing illusions, it just leaves them confused and insecure. It is not good for your children, you or your wife to lie for your wife in this cover up. Everyone loses. And your children will resent you for it when they find out.

Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, on telling the children:

here



here

here

Why don't you check out the link in my signature? These are best practices that we have collected over the years. WE have thousands of recovered marriages here that have used these tactics.

I will tell you that anonymous exposures are useless. People don't take them seriously, nor do you get the desired effect, which is support for your marriage.

I just have to revisit this statement made by you in reference to your children, H_H. I haven't been able to get it off my mind since reading it. It is very troubling.


Why not you? Isn't a father supposed to be a moral guidepost for their children? Why would you abandon your post, Sir? Their entire world is about to be rocked -- the family that they have derived their security from is going under and you are unwilling to tell them WHY. WHY IS THAT?

They are being handed a 10,000 piece puzzle and asked to put it together without a picture to help guide them -- or worse they will be given the wrong picture by your wayward wife and expected to work it out from that. Why would you allow this H_H? You know how it feels not to have the truth about your life -- you understand that pain. Why would you subject your children to that?

It is your responsibility to arm your children with all the facts so they are able to properly maneuver this moral minefield. Why are you unwilling to do your job, Sir?

Mrs. W

I am extremely concerned that you do not know how to protect your teenage daughter. We see Wayward mothers moving in their lowlifes every day on these forums.

How common do you think it is for marriage wrecking stepdads to hit on a teenage girl?

And you won't even warn your daughter about what is happening to her own mother.

You are going to LEAVE. So she will just have to figure this out the best she can! While trusting whoever her mother introduces her to.

Dr H has written extensively on how WWs have to enlist the kids as liars to sneak the new OM in and out of the house. It becomes very important that the kids "Don't tell Daddy, because you will hurt Daddy". Time and time again it happens and the mother teaches the daughter to be wayward and a liar herself.

Blind trust got you here. Now you are hoping blind trust will stop her exposing the kids to her affairs?

I am praying for your children. They are smart, capable people who deserve the chance to ask their mother to help save their family.

They do not deserve being brushed aside like this as though they are too stupid to understand. As though their opinion is nothing.

We have a 7yo on the SAA forum who just stopped her mother's A. She said: "Why do you want a boyfriend when Daddy loves you?" The woman went from full on affair-ville to repairing her family. The marriage is now recovering.

When you say "She wouldn't do that" - that is EXACTLY what you told yourself after A number one.

As someone who speaks with victims of crime a lot, I have lost count of the number of stepfather on stepdaughter sex crimes.

I usually speak with the bio father too.

He always says "I was out of the house - what could I do?"

x 2

If you won't tell your children the truth now, you won't tell them the truth when they are older either...there will be another excuse not to...mostly likely it's been years so why bother now.

I'd go with Plan D but I also wouldn't protect a WS from the consequences of her choices or not teach my children moral lessons...every child should have those lessons.

x 1000

Saying "I am sure someone else will love them enough to warn and protect them" is baffling.

As Melody Lane said:

YOU ARE ALL THEY HAVE!!!!