Hi! Apologies in advance for a quite lengthy post but I guess all the details are relevant. I am going through a really rough time in my marriage at the moment and would really appreciate some advice or even thoughts. I am 29 years old and have been with my wife for 8 years (married 2). We also have three kids together, aged 1, 3 and 5. We have had some problems in our marriage in the past but have always managed to resolve them and move forward. However this time I am feeling like it could be the end. It all started about a month ago. We had been planning on taking our family to the beach and stay with my own parents. However my son needed to get his tonsils out that same week, so I decided I would take my two daughters to the beach for a few nights, whilst my wife stayed home and looked after our son. On the last night I was there she messaged me during the day and said she was catching up with an old high school friend(lets call him Bill) for a quick couple of drinks. She had not seen or had any contact with him for at least 6 years prior, but had recently became friends with him on facebook. I'll admit I got angry at her for organising this whilst I was out of town, and I am a little old fashioned when it comes to her haivng close male friends. The next day I returned home and found out she had gone out drinking with him until midnight. I felt like I had been betrayed in some sense. She didn't understand where I was coming from and told me I was being controlling. I told her I wasn't comfortable with her catching up with him for drinks just on their own like that and she reluctantly agreed. Things settled down for a few days and then she told me she was planning on catching up with him again (only a week later) but was taking her sister this time. I got quite angry that she had organised to see him only a week after we had a big fight over it and how that made me feel. She didn't end up going but cracked it with me and went and stayed at her mums house. We spoke about what we were going to do and she told me I was overreacting and paranoid. She also said she felt like I wasn't letting her be herself and she needed more freedom and space. Anyways we reached a compromise about what I would be comfortable with. One thing I said was that I wanted her to wait a few weeks before she caught up with him again and she agreed to that. One week later I found a text message on her phone inviting him out for drinks with her and her sister. I confronted her about it as I thought it was a bit rough that she only waited a week. She didn't understand where I was coming from and just told me I was being crazy. She ended up catching up with him for drinks last weekend even though I wasn't happy about it. She also caught up with him at a halloween party last night whilst I was out of town at a bucks party. During the last few weeks of this happening I have also caught her out telling 'half truths' as she puts it, about her contact with him. This last few weeks she has been really distant from me and said she is thinking about leaving me. I am trying hard to stay sane at the moment. I have approached her about and she insists that I am just being crazy and controlling. I am not sure if I am just being crazy or something is going on here. Any advice would be great!

I'm sorry to say that it sounds like your wife is having an A with this person. There are lots of red flags here: her insistence on meeting up with this person in spite of your (rightful) discomfort with the thought of your wife going out with a man not her husband or brother. That she wants "space" is also a red flag. Your wife wants her space so she can carry on an affair with her old HS friend.

You will need to snoop quietly and get solid evidence - enough to convince a jury. Don't let on what you are doing and don't let her know about this website. Let us know what you find. When you have the goods, the next step is exposure. We will help you with the steps.

Meanwhile, stop getting angry with you wife. You will need to eliminate ALL your love busters and be a wonderful husband to her. Show you that you are all she wants and needs. This is called Plan A.

While you are in Plan A, insist that she stop going out with this person, that her behavior is a threat to the marriage.

Your very real discomfort with her independent behavior is not controlling, by the way. If you were commanding her to DO things, that's controlling. However, asking your spouse to NOT go out with a member of the opposite sex is not controlling.

You are her best choice, because you are the father of her children. It's very unlikely that this guy she is meeting up with is going to want to help her raise her children.

Thanks for your advice! Although I hate looking through her phone I have been doing it a bit the last couple of weeks.I haven't found anything that would suggest she is having an affair. However on one occasion she did delete some messages she had sent to him, but the messages weren't anything bad. When I asked her about it she said she did it to avoid any conflict. She also claimed the reason she lied about some things was to also avoid conflict. She hasn't lied about meeting up with him (as far as I know), only really about what she had said to him in text messages. For example she invited him to the Halloween party but denied it when I asked her.
My personal opinion at the moment is she is caught up in an emotional affair and is either in denial or just not telling me. And this has made her wonder what else is out there. I have asked her if she had any feelings for him and she said no. She has also said that her leaving has nothing to do with him and its because things 'have been [censored]' between us for a while.
She knows I am suspicious/paranoid that she is having an emotional/physical affair so I guess that makes it hard for me to find any 'evidence' of anything if anything is even going on.

I have also discovered she was looking at rental properties the last 2 days and she says she is just looking at prices. This has been really hard for me to deal with. At the moment we have agreed to keep living together for another few weeks and to try marriage counseling.

Have you called the guy to let him know that you are not comfortable with him talking to to your wife?

DD - I'd get and read Harley's book "surviving an affair" ASAP. It sounds like your wife is very likely under the influence of an affair. While she is under its influence she will not be thinking or acting rationally.

There is a great danger for both of you to do incredible damage to your relationship during this crisis. If you both follow your emotional instincts your marriage may not survive.

Harley's approach to marriage building, including (but not limited to) when there is an affair going on, is proven to help marriages survive what you're going through. Relying on your own natural reactions will probably make things worse.

I'll summarize harley's approach as I understand it

1) Do whatever you can to separate the affair partners. Be firm but do not insult or use anger. This will only make things worse.

2) Once the affair is over, commit understanding and meeting your wife's emotional needs with the goal of restoring her romantic love for you.

These are the basics. Spend some time reading Harley's website while you wait for the book. You are in the right place.

Emotional affairs are every bit as dangerous to marriage as a physical affair.

Don't ask your wife about her affair or her feelings with this guy; waywards always lie, I'm sorry to say. She plans to keep this secret. If she knows you are on to her, she will just go deeper underground.

Marriage counselors have no idea how to handle infidelity. Most of them do not understand the addictive nature of an affair. Please avoid marriage counseling, unless they are very familiar with and use Marriage Builder principles, especially in the area of infidelity. Most MC will be destructive to your marriage at this point. Your wife will lie about her feelings about this guy to the counselor.

Please do not feel badly about snooping. Married couples should have nothing secretive between them. You have every right to know what your wife is doing.

Please notify the moderators and ask them to move your thread to Surviving an Affair. You will get a great deal of help there for your situation. For now, please read the top thread of the SAA forum --- > Here

Many people here have been through what you are now going through. You will get not only support but a plan to help you bust up the affair and with your marriage. Make sure you take care of your health. Keep calm; avoid love busters at all costs.

Your first job needs to be to snoop, get your evidence (download what you find to a safe place) and you'll get help for the next steps.

Thanks for the advice. I have thought about calling the other guy but figured it would only push my wife further away. I am still not entirely convinced anything is going on there. Like I am feeling paranoid about their relationship but I do have a history of being paranoid over these things and have been burnt in previous relationships, which probably doesn't help.

My wife said today she isn't going to see him anymore, but I felt like she didn't really mean it. So I guess I'll just wait it out at the moment and see what happens.

It's hard for me to talk about it to her as she gets angry when ever I ask her about it and says I'm interrogating her or constantly asking questions. Which I guess has been the case to some extent because I am so worried about it. This seems to be pushing her away more but I am trying really hard to not discuss it for the time being. She also says the best thing I can do is give her space.

Do you think marriage counseling will be of any benefit?

I am really lost at the moment and not sure how I should be approaching it. Do I try and be affectionate towards her even though she is cold? Or should I distance myself from her as much as I can whilst still living together?

Many people have discovered that their gut feelings are correct. You are not being paranoid. It's very VERY normal to feel threatened and jealous under the conditions you have laid out. It would be easier for your wife to stop the behavior that makes you feel this way than for you to somehow stop feeling threatened or "paranoid."

One of the very basic Extraordinary Precautions married people should have is to never have good friendships of the opposite sex. That means it's not okay to go out alone with OS friends. This is very risky behavior at the very least.


Snoop, snoop, snoop, but do it quietly. And don't ask her about it or bring it up anymore. Until you find something that is solid evidence and then come back here for help with the next step. Meanwhile, don't spend any nights apart. Make sure all your leisure time is with your wife.


Don't bring it up again. Look for evidence.

Every wayward wife asks for/demands that her husband give her space.


Marriage counseling is more than likely going to be of little benefit because of the affair. Most MCs don't understand infidelity and the fog of an affair. The best thing you can do at the moment is to read up on all the basic concepts of Marriage Builders (in our opinion and experience, the absolute best plan for a great marriage "out there.") There's lots of really valuable and free information on this website.


What are your wife's ENs? Do you have an idea? Most women like Intimate Conversation and Affection, but if she's having an A, she may not allow you to meet these needs. Still, you can try showing her affection and having enjoyable conversation with your wife. Look good, smell good. Don't be annoying about it - meet her needs as much as she will allow.

And don't make the mistake of distancing yourself from her. This will only make her feel as though you don't care and probably validate her affair. Show her that you DO care and that you are her best choice.

And don't talk about the affair or ask questions at this time. Remember, she will lie about it and she will find ways to hide it. Keep snooping, but be very quiet about it. Most waywards get sloppy at some point.

At this point Dr Harley would probably advise you to investigate and get proof that she is having an affair. We know she is. But proof is needed in order to effectively expose the affair.
Can you hire a private investigator?
You need to find as much information as you can about this man for future exposure.

You should also enter "Plan A" However this will be a difficlt time because your wife is in love with another man.

As for marriage counseling, that ia largely ineffective during an affair.
In fact it can actually worsen the marriage.

She will likely use marriage counseling as a forum to advocate and gain approval for a "trial separation" so she can "be alone to think"
That is why she is looking for rentals etc.
And I assure you she won't be "alone" during a separation

Also, you can stop your independent behavior as well. No taking some children on vacation leaving her home to take care of a child after surgery. No bucks' nights out. While you are snooping and working on doing what you can to stop the affair, read Dr. Harley's basic concepts and work on becoming the husband she needs.

Hiring a PI is probably not an option at the moment. She has said she wont be seeing the OM again. However I don't understand why she is saying this as at the same time it seems like she is set on leaving me. So it seems contradictory to me. She really doesn't seem to be making an effort to try and make things better at the moment and I asked her why she hasn't left already. She said she is staying because I wanted her to stay for a few weeks to try and work things out.
I have access to her facebook, emails and phone but I haven't found anything that suggests she is having an affair. It is possible that she is deleting any contact with him or maybe there is nothing going on. I know there is some red flags but maybe she has just lost interest in me.
Its going to be hard to stay at home as all of next week I am out of town for work and then back for a week and then gone again the week after.
She said she is willing to do marriage counseling and if I don't ring and organise soon she probably wont want to.

Here is a link to the entire article HERE

(she IS still in the affair)

Ignore her words.

She is addicted to the secrecy.

Do not see a marriage counselor.......it would be the kiss of death.

Instead, assume she is in the affair and lying to you and read up on Plan A and be the very best man you are capable of being in order to attempt to lay ground work for a future reconciliation of the marriage if the affair ever dies.

Bad news just sent a message to her saying I booked the counseling for two weeks time. She replied and said she wants me to move out today to give her space to think if she wants to still be with me. She said in two weeks she will know if she wants to go through with the counseling... I havent replied yet

Do not move out.

She is lying. She is seeing her OM. She is having an affair.

You need to hide a digital VAR in her car and in the house ASAP. Hire a PI if you can hire one.

Have you gotten the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley?

Have you learned how to fully expose the affair?

WW's do not want to separate and divorce unless they have your replacement lined up.

Do not move out.

Heck.....SHE can go if she must (don't tell her she can go, but know that she is a grown up who can figure this out).

Stay at home. Tell her you are not going anywhere. Say it nicely and matter of factly (no angry outbursts or getting into discussions about it).

I cant expose the affair because I have no evidence and I myself am not fully convinced she is having one.. She only met this bloke a month ago and hung out with him 3 times (that I know of)...

It takes a brief moment to cross boundaries into an affair.

A marriage can be wrecked in a moment on one single day.

Though you are not convinced she is having an affair.........every single sign is there for us to read from your posts. Assume she is having one even if you can not find evidence at the moment. Assume it. Prepare for it and read up on the basic concepts above and this link

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659680#Post1659680

Guess what? If, by some chance she is not having an affair afterall......reading and following the advice in that link will do no harm. It will get you on the track to improving your situation, affair or not.

You need to stop leaving town.
Your job creates an environment that makes affairs possible.

Why did you do that?
Everyone here has recommended against marriage counseling.
Don't believe us, listen to Dr Harley. He is a national expert.
Marriage counseling is ineffective during an affair.

I suggest you:
1. Take a leave of absence from your job
2. Do not leave your home
3. Respond with this message: "I am willing to work wirh you to create a loving marriage where both of our needs are met"
4. Snoop and get evidence of this affair, background check on OM, begin preparing for exposure

Dome,

Sorry you're in this spot. Your wife is deep in the fog of her affair. The lady you married doesn't exist right now, and she is going to be cruel to you, so please brace yourself for that. Make no mistake about it, she is having an affair, and though there is no evidence, I would bet it has gotten physical already. I'm sorry.

You must first collect evidence. As others have suggested, try and put spyware on her phone and computer, and get a VAR for the house and her car. Once you have the evidence expose it to her friends and family and the other man's. We will help you with exposure after you get the evidence. But know that exposing her affair is the most powerful weapon you have in ending the affair, and ending the affair is the ONLY shot you have at recovering your marriage if that is your goal.

In the meantime, read Surviving an Affair and the links on this site about infidelity. Dr. Harley will help you through this very difficult period.

Once again, I'm sorry you're going through this. But I'm glad you are here. Follow Dr. Harley's advice and the advice of those on this forum. They will not steer you wrong.

I booked marriage counseling because I thought it might give me some time to work out what is going on. It came as a surprise she wants me to leave today. I have convinced her I need to stay to do work on the home computer and said I will leave tomorrow.

I cant just leave my job and stay home. I recently applied for a promotion and got it, unfortunately that requires me to spend the 2 weeks away. I have always worked 9 to 5 in the past. I am not giving up this opportunity on a hunch that my wife is having an affair.

Like I have said I've been checking her FB, email and phone for any evidence. I have found contact between her and the OM but it hasn't been that regular or nothing has really suggested she is having an affair. I am hesitant of putting spyware on her phone as if I am wrong or she finds out and I have no evidence then I will be kissing my marriage goodbye.

I don't know how I can convince her to let me stay she is guilting me by saying it would be messing the kids around as we live close to school here. Plus she will lose her [censored] at me if I tell her I am staying which would push her further away.

If she is having a physical affair I doubt I could ever forgive her.

My kids are the same age as hers. It is completely absurd that a woman with a 1 and 3 year old would spend time meeting another man for drinks in a platonic manner, she hardly has time to sit down in peace at the end of the night and take a bath alone, let alone midnight. That takes some serious effort and not something to be done with just "some guy".

I suspect her sister knows far more about this than you think and she is likely some sort of liason. I'm sorry, you can cancel that marriage counseling and it's time to dig deep for further investigation/PI. I know you say these things aren't a possibility but you don't have a choice.

She is looking to move. She IS leaving. And she is looking to replace you. Are you okay with another man being daddy to your children? This is what wayward wives do. Be on guard and pull out the big guns.

You are unwilling to give up a promotion at the cost of saving your family?

GET YOUR PRIORITIES IN ORDER. Your wife IS cheating on you sir, you are being blind to it. This is NOT a "hunch". It is absolutely absurd to think that a woman with two babies and a child at home is out drinking with men till midnight "just because".

You will never kill her affair if you put your job/promotion/money ahead of your marriage and family. Do you remember your vows?

I am not a WW, do you know what my #1 favourite thing about my husband is?

He has the kind of career where most men put their wives/families second (police officer). He does NOT. He puts me and our children first. We come before overtime (never), promotions with travel (never), and is home for dinner every night. THAT sir, is one of the driving forces that keeps me in love with him. A protector of his wife and family who puts us first. Money and career status doesn't matter when you are happy at home.

You need to become that, or you will lose your family.

You raise some good points.
However I cant just go to my boss and say, sorry I can't go away for the week because I think my wife is having an affair. This is the first time I have ever had to work away and it is only for training, so it wont be an ongoing thing.
When she went out for drinks on the initial meeting she was alone with him for a couple of hours before they met up with her sister and other friends.
I also feel like you are being judgemental of my circumstances. I have always put my family first and have always worked 9 to 5 (as a teacher) so I am home for dinner and to help out etc.

I am unable to hire a PI and she is kicking me out tomorrow. So I wont beable to check her phone. I still have access to her FB and email but this hasnt uncovered anything. Any contact would most likely be through her phone.

I dont really see what other options I have. If I stay at my mums house with the kids I may beable to leave them there whilst I go out, if I think she is up to no good.

Is there a way I may beable to approach her to get her to confess to it?
Now that I will be staying out of the home, what approach should I take in regards to contact with her?

How is she kicking you out? Did she file for divorce and get exclusive use of the marital home by a judge?

She's telling you to jump and you are saying "how high"... I hope one of the knowledgable male posters comes here soon and helps you quickly. She is telling you to leave so that she can replace you with this new guy.

You're going ot have to step up and be the man here. This is YOUR home and YOUR children, and if she doesn't like it, SHE can leave.

I am not being judgemental Sir, you have just told me that you are unwilling to give up a promotion in light of the obvious fact (this is not a hunch!) that your wife is trying to remove you from the home and is having drinks with another man. You can't fix this without being there.
YOUR WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR AND IS LOOKING TO REPLACE YOU WITH ANOTHER MAN. THAT MEANS ANOTHER MAN RAISING YOUR CHILDREN. If you are willing to abandon the marital home (yes, YOU leaving voluntarily is abandoning your children at the marital home) then YOU will see your children a few times a month on a weekend for the next 17 years.

You MUST step up now.

Domedelay, I came to MB with issues about UA time. No affairs. I'm not a betrayed spouse and I've never cheated. I'm not biased in this - and it's very obvious to me. I'm sure you don't wish to believe it but you are really heading into danger here, and ignoring it makes it so much worse.

She most likely has a secret FB account and email. You're right, she's using the phone. Do you have access to her phone records? There's no guarantee there though, if she isn't texting or calling you won't find anything. If you can, do a reverse lookup of every number.

Can you put a keylogger on the computer before you leave? You can check the results online or have them emailed to you. She may not use the computer now much, but with you out of the house (very bad idea), it would be likely that she would use it more.

That said, You must stay in the house. On what grounds are you being "kicked out"? Have you read up on plan A? That's your other (and best) option.

I'm no lawyer, but I though if you left the house, she can file for D citing "abandonment". It's slimy, but that's a WW for you.

She doesn't use the computer only her phone. I am sure that if there is any contact it is through text or phone calls from her mobile. I don't have access to her phone records.

So if I refuse to leave, how should I go about it?
I know she will blow up if I tell her I am not leaving. And in the case that there is no affair and she really is just pissed at me for whatever reasons, I would be blowing my chances.

I think I am starting to understand this situation a little better. It struck me as really strange that your wife would be so open about starting this affair. Most BSs have to be bloodhounds to find the trail. Your wife leaves trail markers for you. Now, you mention a recent promotion, and make comments to the effect that the promotion is of great importance to you, and that there are also conditions under which you will give up on your wife.

In good marriages, both marriage partners set the interest of their spouses first. Nothing else is more important than their spouse. So, what does your wife think of this promotion? Is she in enthusiastic agreement, or is there some expectation that she should just be a good wife and support you? Have you read "Surviving an Affair"? The story of Sue and John starts out just this way, with John getting too involved in his job and neglecting Sue.

What do I think you should do? First of all, no separation. The two of you need to stay together to work this out. You need to convince your wife that she is the most important thing in your life. If she is not in enthusiastic agreement with anything you are doing, then don't do it. You need to be fully in on this without reservation. You need to demonstrate actions that prove to your wife the true depth of your love for her. Like it or not, that is what you have been doing. You have shown your wife that your job is more important, and that you will go to only a limited effort to save your marriage. You need to change your tactics. It is time to go big or go home.

The promotion will not mean any more working hours or any ongoing work that is out of town (only the training). She encouraged me to go for the position when I was debating about applying. And she seemed happy that I was going to do it.
She has been mostly honest about her contact with him, since the beginning.

At the moment I dont think she cares weather I am trying to save our marriage. She said to me tonight that she doesnt even know why I continue to try with her, when she is telling me she doesnt know if she loves me. I feel like she wants me to just give up and break it off with her so she doesnt have to. Plus she is reading some book called 'Too good to leave, too bad to stay' which is really rough.

First off, leaving is the second biggest mistake betrayed spouses make, men in particular. Do not leave your house.

The first biggest mistake is not exposing.

Your wife is in an affair, and that is NOT a hunch. She is showing all the classic symptoms. And others here will say the same thing. And you are enabling the affair by refusing to investigate at a deeper level and leaving your home.

She may have a secret phone that she is using. The fact that she has met with the OM makes me believe that the affair has gone physical. I'm not sure why you have let her meet him. There is one sure way to find out: have your wife take a polygraph. If she has nothing to hide, she will take it. That is one way you can find out if it is physical. However, first things first. Snoop more. Put on the spyware or hire a PI.

Once you collect the evidence, you have to work assertively on killing the affair. And that means exposing it. We will help you with that.

But get out of denial. Your wife has shut down because she has found someone else to meet her needs. And as her husband, you have to stand up for your marriage and take the OM out of the equation. If you don't, your marriage is over.

Do not leave the home.

She can not kick you out. She can scream at you and try to bully you to leave but you do not go.

You don't get angry in response to her demands or tantrums (she is desperate to get you out to make her affair, excuse me, to make her 'not convinced she is having an affair') easier to implement.

Do not leave.

Don't make excuses like fixing the computer to stay..

Just say "I am staying here. I am not leaving my house or my family."

Repeat as needed and walk away from any tantrums she is having.

Your job.......well........tell your boss that there is a family crisis and you can not leave town.

There IS a CRISIS.

(your wife is trying to get you out of the family home for 'whatever' reason)

REREAD my POST as NEEDED to understand the deal.

You are clouded by your past teamwork in your marriage.

Your wife in no longer on YOUR team.

Do not leave your home and children.

And, by the way, if she gets so frustrated that you won't leave that she leaves, let her, but, do not allow her to take the kids with her. They stay at home with you. You will need to consider childcare if they do but they must stay with you so you can protect them from potential upheavel of various kinds.

She is in withdrawal. When she complains at you, she is in conflict. You want to move her from the state of withdrawal, through the state of conflict, to the state of intimacy. Her complaints are good, so you need to draw them out and address them. You need to demonstrate through actions that you are going to fight to keep her.

Please read this thread on why men should NOT leave their home: Men, Do Not Leave Your Home

Make sure you are not love busting at all.

If you want a shot at saving your marriage, you really need to go to your boss and tell him you are experiencing a family crisis and that you desperately need to be home.

No one here is being disrespectful or judgmental to you. We have been in your situation and have come out the other side by following the advice of Dr. Harley. These aren't just our opinions we are spouting. Dr. Harley is an expert on the subject of infidelity and has been a marriage coach for 40 years.

Spending nights apart at any time is detrimental to marriage, but traveling at this time, while your marriage is in crisis, is going to be very destructive to your marriage.

You may think you need this promotion, but think how much you are risking in taking it. You stand to lose your marriage and primary custody of your children, unless you can prove that your wife is unfit. Isn't it worthwhile to consider declining the promotion in light of this?

Has your wife ever made complaints about you in the past? What have her complaints been?

Stay in your home. Don't give her a reason; you hardly need to explain why you want to stay in your own home with your family. Just say sweetly, "Honey, I want to stay home with you and our children. I'm not leaving."

You really need to ramp up your snooping so can find the evidence you are going to need to expose. You can't expose until you have evidence that would convince a jury. And as long as your wife has the cloak of secrecy, the affair can continue unabated.

If you want to save your marriage, you will need to put in the effort explained in your thread.

Do you care about your wife? Then please save her from what she is about to do to herself and to your children.

In another post you said that OM is an old friend. It sounds like he lives close. How do you know they have not met up more times?

We have a saying here: Believe only what you can personally verify. Make decisions based on FACTS.

Ok, this is classic wayward. After a period of work-related separation (where my fWW had a short EA/one time PA) we were back under the same roof. She stonewalled me about everything, said alot of what your W said. She was also reading all sorts of marriage support books (none by Dr. Harley), none of which covered recovery after infidelity. I think she wanted me to leave or to force her to leave.

Once I had the smallest piece of evidence of an EA, she trickle truthed to a PA within 3 days. Sucks, right? Not at all. Now I understood why she was in a state of withdrawal and we could actually fix the first problem...the affair. Once that was dead, and the fog lifted, I actually had my W back, not some alien in W's clothing. It's alot easier to R a marriage with someone not spouting fogbabble, which your W seems to be doing.

So you are going to let OM steal your W and kids from you? What do you know about this rat? Is he married?

You don't have to convince her to let you stay. You tell her that you are not moving out from your wife and kids.


Their DAD moving out is not messing with the kids?






Further away than what? Don't be afraid of her anger. You need to be COOL STRONG AND IN CONTROL.

Install spyware on her phone. Put a VAR/GPS in her car.

Ok I know its been a few weeks but thought I would post an update.

So I left the house to give her some space on the 6/11 and am still currently living out of home. We went to our first session of marriage counseling 3 days ago and I found it a positive experience. The counselor basically said that she thinks my wife has depression and should start taking anti-depressants. She also said not to make any decisions on her future at this stage whilst she is depressed. She had already been prescribed anti-depressants a few months ago but never took them. She also said that my wife should cut contact with the OM and we should go out together once a week without the kids.
The main reason that my wife stated for losing her connection with me is going back into the past. I hadn't mentioned in my last post that I was a major pot head for the first 7 or so years of our relationship. My wife told the counselor that the way I treated her and behaved when constantly stoned was draining. I accepted that but I haven't smoked since Jan this year.
There seemed to be a slight improvement in her on the night of counseling and I stayed at home. We went out for dinner together last night though and she was cold and got funny when I tried to touch her. She is still maintaining that she needs space from me and wants me to continue to live out of home.
She has agreed not to see the OM and she has begun taking the anti-depressants.
She hasn't caught up with her male friend since I left but did say she had plans to this weekend but cancelled straight after getting out of the counseling session. I have been checking her FB and emails and nothing sus going on there. I did also manage to check her phone once in the last few weeks and although there was some contact it was limited to a few messages with nothing out of the ordinary. She has continued to maintain nothing has happened there.

She is still being cold to me at the moment although I did spend one night with her last week and we had a good night and even slept with each other. She seems a little bit warmer to me on occasions but cold at other times.

This whole thing is still killing me and being rejected like this for the last month or so has begun to cause resentment towards her. I am really trying hard to be supportive especially because of the depression but being treated like a piece of [censored] doesn't help!

Dome - You failed to take the advice of the board and some of most seasoned vets here! You moved out of your home! WORST possible thing to do - sure she "needs space", sure she's "not sure if she's still in love with you", she's in her FOG!
She is STILL in contact with the POSOM - however limited,
she "says" she hasn't seen him, can you verify this? Are you 100% sure? Way wards lie!!
your marriage is not going to survive without even the most basic EP's in place.

Have you read what people posted here for you?
No woman in her right mind would give up the help she gets from her husband with those tiny children. Not if there weren't a very compelling reason to do so.
That reason is, you stand in the way of her affair.

What you have not understood also:

1. Marriage counseling while the affair is ongoing (either in reality or even if it were only in the mind of your spouse, continued contact = ongoing affair) is useless. The reason for that is obvious: what if you had a car that was 10 years old. It would have some problems here and there, but overall it was functioning ok. No reason to buy a new car. But what if... what if you discovered a brand new Corvette, that was in your price range? Would you still be willing to put much energy in maintaining and repairing your, now, old car?

Marriage counseling serves three functions at this time:
- give her the opportunity to say she did all she could, but the marriage just did not work
- to keep you occupied with the smoke screen while she carries on living in lalaland
- to make the demise of the marriage your fault.

By the way, she has that last item elegantly covered, by blaiming your past use of marihuana. As there is no way to change the past, she has you cornered there and I garantee that speaking about past problems is not going to make her fall in love with you or want to be married to you.

2.
Do you know anyone who has attained an integrated happy marriage by separating? Please tell us, because we have been waiting for this rare species to come along on this forum for many years. We have not seen one single example in the history of this forum that I know of. On the other hand, we have seen hosts of men who were bullied, beggged and enticed out of the house by their wives, only to pull out their (suddenly gray) hairs, because it turned out to be 100 times more difficult to repair their relationships without actually being around their families.

Please realize that sadly, at the time, your foggy wife sees you as the old car and through her pink colored glasses, she sees OM as a brand new model. Now tell me, do you want you children to go through being schlepped to the other parent's home every other weekend? Because that iis exactly where you are heading with your faulty compass. In your decisions, you fail to take into acount, that your wife does not have the best interests of your marriage in mind. She is steering towards her new car and it is about time you took on steering this ship away from the cliffs and saving your marriage. Your wife is obviously enticed by the syrens, but she will thank you later for having saved her from what is about to become the worst mistaks of her life.

- move back (honey I'm home!)
- plan A
- flexispy on her phone or drop it in the dish water (my iphone did not survive that, I can assure)
-expose if you have t he evidence

Now do sonething, because you are becoming a glaring example of a clueless, well meaning husband, who is about to be rudely awoken from his innocent sleep.