Marriage Builders
Posted By: LolaLove Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 03:32 AM
My husband and I have been married almost 28 years. Things have not been good between us for a long time...I would say at least 5 years although he would say longer. 3 years ago for our 25th anniversary I tried to get him to take a trip with me but he wouldn't. On our anniversary I had a complete emotional breakdown and poured out my heart to him about how unhappy I was with many things in life. We went to a marriage counselor once and both hated it...slowly we slipped back into our routine of unhappiness. That same year I discovered that he was involved in an emotional affair that had been going on for a year or two. He ended it. Things were better between us, but slowly we slipped back into our old ways. Eventually he told me he loves me but is no longer in love with me. About a year ago we went to Florida with 2 of our kids. We walked on the beach every day but there was just no romance between us although I would have liked it. He says he can't help it...this past fall he began talking about divorce so I began snooping again. I found out that he had a strong interest in someone else but I cannot confirm that there was an actual affair. I confronted him (not telling him I know who it is) He denied it. He really has not had any interest in working on our marriage. I have been trying to improve things but I feel really discouraged. We have continued to have a pretty good sexual relationship, but there is definitely a lack of affection--he never kisses me on the lips or hugs me unless I initiate. I know he is still trying to keep this relationship with the latest "interest" alive, although it appears she has stopped responding in the way he wants. I feel like I just don't know where to go from here. I don't want to talk to him about it because I just get my feelings hurt--I don't want to hear him say he's not "in love" with me and doesn't see a future for us. Let me add that he is a very kind, generous man who would do anything for me. I know he cares about me but I want more! Any advice?
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 03:50 AM
Welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry it is under these circumstances. But, you are in the right place.

Please read:
Start Here First
Post your questions on your thread, and many of the members volunteering their time will be along to help.

Then, you probably want to order the book Surviving An Affair by Dr. Harley. Get the new updated version. You can order it for Kindle or read it on a computer, or you can get the print version.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 05:36 AM
I guess I feel somewhat responsible for what he did because I was not being the wife he needed. We had 4 children in 6 years and I devoted a lot of my time and energy to them...probably truly neglecting him.
With this last person he was interested in I found a love poem that he wrote about her. Idk if he gave it to her or not. I believe she broke things off with him...we had a few conversations about us where he ended up crying (I now think because he was sad about losing her). Can you believe I felt sorry for him?
Do I need counseling to figure out why I tolerate his behavior? I can't figure out why I feel like I have to protect him when he has done nothing to protect me, our marriage or our family.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 04:34 PM
Ok...I am feeling like I really have to add this part...I also had an emotional affair. About a year ago I was feeling so unloved that I contacted an old high school boyfriend who had been really in love with me. We had been in touch off and on over the years, but this time it took hold. He began to tell me all of the things I didn't hear from my husband. I tried to keep it at friends but we did meet once when I went on a business trip and we had sex. I kept telling myself that our marriage vows were already broken. I do continue to talk to him...he has helped me through so much.
We are really messed up, huh?
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 04:49 PM
Have you read the Start Here First link? Have you read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts? Have you started reading Surviving an Affair yet?

Articles about opposite-sex friends:
Are "friends" a risk to your marriage?
The risk of opposite-sex friends in your marriage

Both of you do not have good boundaries in place. You can change this by learning what EP's are, and adhering to them. If you are still talking to the OM (other man) that you had an EA with, then you are still having an EA. Does your H know about your EA yet?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 04:52 PM
Hi ljmom, welcome to Marriage Builders. The most glaring problem in your marriage is a lack of honesty and a long pattern of enabling. For example, it seems you have tolerated his affairs, rather than taking steps to end them. Sweeping the problems under the rug has been a huge mistake.

I would take another approach, starting with radical honesty. You need to tell your husband about your affair and tell him you know about his affair. You should both end contact with your affair partners immediately by sending them a no contact letter.

Please read starting here:
Originally Posted by Requirements for Recovery
"The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide." continued here


And then pick up the book Surviving an Affair. In the meantime, you can follow these guidelines:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 05:02 PM
My husband knows I talk to him but thinks we are just friends. He does not know I met up with the OM. I have actually joked with my H that he would like it if the OM "took me off his (my H's) hands"
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 05:04 PM
Did you read my post? This is not an "EA," it is a physical affair and your husband should be told the truth. All the facts should be put on the table.
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
and we had sex.

Totally missed that part. Um, yeah. You need to go tell your H. All of it. Now.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 08:26 PM
I have not tolerated his affairs...the first time he ended it immediately. As for the most recent interest I don't know if it actually was an affair.

I have read the things mentioned and have just started "surviving an affair"
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
I have not tolerated his affairs...the first time he ended it immediately.

You posted this above:
Originally Posted by ljmom24
I know he is still trying to keep this relationship with the latest "interest" alive, although it appears she has stopped responding in the way he wants.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 08:36 PM
Yes, I don't want him to know I know who it is this time because I am still trying to get proof of what's going on. If he knows I know he will just hide it better.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
Yes, I don't want him to know I know who it is this time because I am still trying to get proof of what's going on. If he knows I know he will just hide it better.

My suggestion would be to get it all out on the table and put an end to it. There is nothing to wait for. Tell him about your affair and tell him to cut off contact with this woman.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 09:21 PM

You can change this by learning what EP's are, and adhering to them.




What is an EP?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 09:23 PM
[quote=MelodyLane] to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____




What is an OP?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 09:35 PM
An OP is "other person." Abbreviations are here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1984040#Post1984040
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by BlairBluefin
You can change this by learning what EP's are, and adhering to them.


I don't see EP in the abbreviatins. What does it stand for?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 09:40 PM
extraordinary precautions
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 10:06 PM
Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery After an Affar

Also, here is a good thread on Extraordinary Precautions
Extraordinary Precautions
Posted By: Gamma Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 10:08 PM
LJMOM,

Having a revenge affair does not cancel out the pain, two affairs = double the pain.

The sad part is that your WHs horrible behavior caused you to become just like him.

But the good news is that you can come clean to your BH and have a good marriage based on honesty if you both want to work on it.

Do the right thing and tell the OMW, other mans wife, too.

The fact that you kept this OM in your life for so long did not help your marriage through the years.

Did you tell the OWHs of your WHs OW what happened?

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 10:48 PM
This is all so new to me. When I discovered his first affair 2 1/2 years ago I left it to him to break it off and I was sure he did. I did not get involved as it was someone he works with and his position is appointed by the mayor--I did not want to risk his job or elicit any type of retribution by that woman. She was not married. For the past 4 months since I discovered he was interested in another woman (I have no clue as to the extent of their involvement) I had been following Mort Fertel and Lee Baucom's "save the marriage" plans. So, no, I have not done any of the above.
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
I had been following Mort Fertel and Lee Baucom's "save the marriage" plans. So, no, I have not done any of the above.

Mort Fertel and Lee Baucom do not have the same expertise and track record at saving marriages that Dr. Harley has. Dr. Harley knows his stuff and he saves marriages.

Read Surviving an Affair and apply the instruction it in. Drop those other guys because they won't help you save your marriage. Let me go hunt down information for you about Mort Fertel.
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 10:57 PM
Mort Fertel?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
This is all so new to me. When I discovered his first affair 2 1/2 years ago I left it to him to break it off and I was sure he did. I did not get involved as it was someone he works with and his position is appointed by the mayor--I did not want to risk his job or elicit any type of retribution by that woman. She was not married. For the past 4 months since I discovered he was interested in another woman (I have no clue as to the extent of their involvement) I had been following Mort Fertel and Lee Baucom's "save the marriage" plans. So, no, I have not done any of the above.

That is a huge reason why you have never recovered your marriage. Mort Fertel has absolutely no idea how to save a marriage after an affair. The advice he gives is sure to invite more affairs. As you have learned the hard way.

We can help you save your marriage if you will follow these steps.
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/19/14 11:13 PM
A lot of marriage counselors tell you to just "forgive" your spouse and let it go. I really appreciated reading about Just Compensation from Dr. Harley - that affairs are so painful that a spouse who has had an affair must compensate their spouse.

In addition to EP's, you will need to be honest to your H about your affair. When do you plan on telling your H about your affair? And, when are you going to tell the Other Woman's H about your H's affair?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/20/14 01:06 AM
I guess i was drawn to those 2 because they say they can help even if your spouse is not working with you. My H has made it clear to me that he is not "in love" with me, does not believe that anyone married a long time is happy and does not believe that you can rebuild love. When i have asked him to work on our marriage he has not been interested...although now I see that the last time we had that discussion he was sill hoping to continue a relationship with someone else.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/20/14 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
I guess i was drawn to those 2 because they say they can help even if your spouse is not working with you. My H has made it clear to me that he is not "in love" with me, does not believe that anyone married a long time is happy and does not believe that you can rebuild love. When i have asked him to work on our marriage he has not been interested...although now I see that the last time we had that discussion he was sill hoping to continue a relationship with someone else.

Unfortunately, their tactics won't work because they do nothing about the existing affair. It is the affair that is causing the breach and unless that is addressed and killed, nothing else will work.

Anyway, you are here now and hopefully we can help you save your marriage. Have you had that honest discussion with your husband yet?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/20/14 08:36 PM
No...things are good between us right now. I don't want to rock the boat.
And I want to have a little more knowledge of Dr. Harley's ideas before I do anything rash.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/20/14 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
No...things are good between us right now. I don't want to rock the boat.
And I want to have a little more knowledge of Dr. Harley's ideas before I do anything rash.

No, things are not "good between you." That is a lie and an illusion. You can't lie your way to a great marriage.

I agree you should not do anything rash. What you should do IMMEDIATELY is tell your husband the full truth. We are not moving forward here until you take that step. The lying has to stop. Your affair has to stop.

That is the first step. We don't go to the next steps until the first step is completed.

Let us know when you have completed this step so we can go to the next steps.
Posted By: taka Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/20/14 09:50 PM
Well then, you are also a dishonest foggy wayward who is no better than your husband and your marriage won't recover.

What Mel is saying is exactly what you will hear Dr. Harley say.

You must tell your husband about your affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/20/14 09:51 PM
As far as I am concerned, you are a garden variety adulterer who is just protecting her sleazy affair. Nothing will change until that stops.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/20/14 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
No...things are good between us right now. I don't want to rock the boat.
And I want to have a little more knowledge of Dr. Harley's ideas before I do anything rash.
Rocking a sinking boat will not endanger anything.
And there is nothing rash in being honest.

Excuses.

Have you confessed yet?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/21/14 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
you are a garden variety adulterer who is just protecting her sleazy affair.
.

Omg....this is true...I have never seen it this way before. Thank you. I just told the OM that I cannot talk to him anymore. It will take some courage to tell my H. I am afraid to do it.

Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/21/14 04:58 AM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Rocking a sinking boat will not endanger anything

So true...it is sinking. I am kidding myself to believe otherwise.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/21/14 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
Originally Posted by Prisca
Rocking a sinking boat will not endanger anything

So true...it is sinking. I am kidding myself to believe otherwise.

When people say sinking they forget that they still have the gunwales above the water. However all the bilge pumps will not work if you do not use them. You can not find a bilge pump better then a "Harley". Though useless if not used.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/21/14 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
Originally Posted by Prisca
Rocking a sinking boat will not endanger anything

So true...it is sinking. I am kidding myself to believe otherwise.

Have you confessed yet?
Posted By: Gamma Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/21/14 06:47 PM
ljmom24,

This really struck me.

I contacted an old high school boyfriend who had been really in love with me. We had been in touch off and on over the years, but this time it took hold.

I wonder if you always on some level had the OM in your backup plan and never been fully invested yourself emotionally in the marriage.

Did your BH ever object to your continued contact with the OM or was it kept a secret. Secrets are never good for a marriage and allow affairs to happen.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 03:26 AM
I told him.
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 03:27 AM
I'm glad you were honest with your H about your affair. What did he say?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 04:01 AM
Not much..asked a lot of questions...he seemed surprised but not angry..I think because of his past affair. We talked a little about Dr Harleys ideas but he doesn't believe it will work...
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 04:17 AM
Originally Posted by JustUss
(From SAA, page 58)

OM,
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my H and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that H did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay H for the pain I have caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he has been missing. I care a gread deal for miy family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely,

Ypu really need to get the book Surviving an Affair by Dr Willard Harley.
At this point, you should write a No Contact letter to your affair partner and shown it to your husband. The letter should be mailed certified mail, return receipt.

When your husband asks about the letter, explain that you are following the plan of a clinical psychologist and national marriage expert.

This is what the letter should look like:



Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 11:23 AM
I have already ended all contact with him. He lives far away so I did tell him those things and then completely removed him from my contacts and blocked him from the chat we used.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 11:38 AM
The No Contact letter should be written and shown to your husband.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
I have already ended all contact with him. He lives far away so I did tell him those things and then completely removed him from my contacts and blocked him from the chat we used.
Have you changed all your contact information? Sent the NC letter?
Posted By: txstunnedman Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
I have already ended all contact with him. He lives far away so I did tell him those things and then completely removed him from my contacts and blocked him from the chat we used.

Honestly, you should not even have this chat account anymore. Disable the account or allow your H to change the passwords so you don't have access. You need to remove all these types of temptations from yourself, you've already proven you lack proper boundaries. Anything less would leave you at extreme risk to continue the A or restart a new one.

Remember A's don't happen because of bad people, they happen because people have poor boundaries. Chat/social media is an invitation to have an affair and they must be removed from your life.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 06:24 PM
Does he even want to save the marriage?
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/22/14 06:54 PM
Since it was a long distance relationship, anything on the computer--chat, skype, etc.--should be permanently removed as they will be a trigger for your and your husband.

Get into Plan A and give it your best efforts. Here you go:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

and from Pepperband:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/23/14 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Does he even want to save the marriage?

This is a good question. He tells me he cares for me more than anyone else in the world but he's not in love with me anymore. He's very cynical about love..doesn't believe in long-term marital happiness. Doesn't want to work on the marriage because it seems "fake"
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/23/14 01:33 PM
Did you write the NC letter and shown it to your husband?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/23/14 07:07 PM
No...he is not asking for anything like that...do I still need to do it? I told him it was over and he believed me.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/23/14 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by ljmom24
No...he is not asking for anything like that...do I still need to do it? I told him it was over and he believed me.
It will show him how serious you are.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/23/14 08:40 PM
Have you read this?
What is Just Compensation?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/23/14 08:42 PM
Also this.
Extraordinary Precautions-Revised SAA
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/23/14 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent
here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/24/14 03:42 AM
When do we start adressing his inappropriate relationships with other women?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Feeling frustrated - 01/24/14 04:29 AM
Have you written the No Contact letter and shown it to him?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 02/28/14 01:57 AM
Here's your show.
Radio Clip of ljmom24's question
Segment #2
Segment #3
Posted By: Habibti How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 12:44 AM
My H and I have been struggling in our marriage for at least the last 5 years. I found MB a few months back and have been trying to get him to do the online program with me. The problem is, he just doesn't buy it. He doesn't believe the feeling of love can be created--he thinks it will be contrived. And he thinks even if the feelings do come back, they will not last. His main reason for being resistant is that he feels like he has hurt and disappointed me so much that if this doesn't work it will just be one more way that he has disappointed me. He is also concerned that he will resent being forced to do it.

He has been talking about separation recently--I told him that I see separation as negative and destructive and I am fairly sure it will lead to divorce. I also said I see MB as positive and constructive.

I am at whits end as to how to further encourage him to try MB--I can't see that things could be any worse in a year or two and I believe they will be better.

Has anyone been in my shoes with a reluctant spouse? Any advice to offer?
Posted By: Denali Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 01:01 AM
Please stick with your original thread and alias here so that posters are not confused. Our TOS stipulate that you may not create new aliases. Thank you
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Habibti
My H and I have been struggling in our marriage for at least the last 5 years. I found MB a few months back and have been trying to get him to do the online program with me. The problem is, he just doesn't buy it. He doesn't believe the feeling of love can be created--he thinks it will be contrived. And he thinks even if the feelings do come back, they will not last. His main reason for being resistant is that he feels like he has hurt and disappointed me so much that if this doesn't work it will just be one more way that he has disappointed me. He is also concerned that he will resent being forced to do it.

He has been talking about separation recently--I told him that I see separation as negative and destructive and I am fairly sure it will lead to divorce. I also said I see MB as positive and constructive.

I am at whits end as to how to further encourage him to try MB--I can't see that things could be any worse in a year or two and I believe they will be better.

Has anyone been in my shoes with a reluctant spouse? Any advice to offer?
What EPs have you both put in place?

Have you confirmed that he isn't having an affair?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 02:01 AM
I have confirmed that he is not having an affair. No specific EPs...as I said I am having trouble getting him to participate.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
I have confirmed that he is not having an affair. No specific EPs...as I said I am having trouble getting him to participate.
That's my concern.

Why would he want to move out because he feels like he is letting you down? Why wouldn't he want to work on the marriage?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Why would he want to move out because he feels like he is letting you down? Why wouldn't he want to work on the marriage?

That's what I keep asking him...it is a vicious circle of a conversation...he is afraid to commit to trying because he is afraid of failure. I say if we fail then we at least know we tried everything. Sometimes I feel like he is more afraid of succeeding for some reason...I just don't get it.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 02:48 AM
How did you rule out an affair? You checked his phone records? You have access to all his email? All his devices remain open?

Usually when a spouse wants to separate "to think, or find themselves" is a red flag for a SSL (secret second life).
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 02:59 AM
I do understand the red flags and 6 months ago he was thinking of leaving for that reason. But at this very moment I am sure there is no one else. I do have access to his email and I can check his whereabouts using his iphone (he does not know this)

I guess I had implemented a plan A of sorts in November (before I found MB) He commented recently that my kindness has really increased his "caring" for me and has kept him around I guess.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 03:02 AM
Has he ever listened to the radio show? The Harleys explain it so well.

Have you ever thought about asking him to call into the show with you?
Posted By: FooledMeTwice Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 03:13 AM
Originally Posted by Habibti
The problem is, he just doesn't buy it. He doesn't believe the feeling of love can be created--he thinks it will be contrived. And he thinks even if the feelings do come back, they will not last. His main reason for being resistant is that he feels like he has hurt and disappointed me so much that if this doesn't work it will just be one more way that he has disappointed me. He is also concerned that he will resent being forced to do it.

He has been talking about separation recently...
Has anyone been in my shoes with a reluctant spouse? Any advice to offer?



Wow! My WH must have borrowed your WH's playbook. My WH said every one of these things during the A. Surprising, no?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 10:12 AM
I really don't want to spend my time debating whether he is in an affair right now...I know he is not...but I also know at this point there is nothing to keep it from happening again. That is why I am desperately trying to get him on board to save our marriage.
Posted By: LifetimeLearner Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 11:07 AM
You had been advised to send a NC letter to OM that your husband could read and agree for you to send. This may be an act on your part that could help persuade your husband to do some marriage investing on his end. You seriously taking EPs to heart for your behavior shows you "put your money where your mouth is." As you are doing your part, ask him if he could do some things for you, and list out EPs you need. If he says he can't do that, then you need to separate/plan B. This, after you've written and sent your no contact letter that is acceptable to your husband.

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 04:20 PM
List what your EPs are, and his.

When did you write the NC Letter?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 04:21 PM
He honestly doesn't care about NC with the OM. I don't think that would mean anything to him.

Plan B may be what I need but I won't leave my house--I still have a daughter at home. Would I ask him to leave?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Have you written the No Contact letter and shown it to him?

This was posted to you 2 months ago...
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: How to encourage husband - 04/17/14 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
He honestly doesn't care about NC with the OM. I don't think that would mean anything to him.

Plan B may be what I need but I won't leave my house--I still have a daughter at home. Would I ask him to leave?

It may not mean anything to him; however, Dr. Harley's program is not a buffet type program where you pick and choose what you will follow.

If you seriously want to save your marriage, you need to follow the program. It may motivate him to jump on board.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent
here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX
Did you write this and show him?

It almost seems like you want to end your marriage?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
It almost seems like you want to end your marriage?


Why do you say this? I am asking for help to get him on board.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
It almost seems like you want to end your marriage?


Why do you say this? I am asking for help to get him on board.
Because you want to separate so fast.

Dr. Harley agrees that women should only be in Plan A for 2-3 weeks and then enter Plan B, but you said you're confident there is no affair, despite his poor boundaries around women.

You had an affair 4 years ago and he brings it up all the time.

When we ask you about EPs and the NC Letter you won't answer and avoid the work.

Then you talk about separating. Recovering a marriage from an Affair is hard work.

Will your BH post here?
Will you write Dr. Harley?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
You had an affair 4 years ago and he brings it up all the time.

You have me confused with someone else.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
You had an affair 4 years ago and he brings it up all the time.

You have me confused with someone else.
Sorry it wasn't four years ago it was on and off throughout your marriage.

Originally Posted by LolaLove
Ok...I am feeling like I really have to add this part...I also had an emotional affair. About a year ago I was feeling so unloved that I contacted an old high school boyfriend who had been really in love with me. We had been in touch off and on over the years, but this time it took hold. He began to tell me all of the things I didn't hear from my husband. I tried to keep it at friends but we did meet once when I went on a business trip and we had sex. I kept telling myself that our marriage vows were already broken. I do continue to talk to him...he has helped me through so much.
We are really messed up, huh?

Did you ever write the NC letter to your OM? Was it exposed? Is OM married?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 06:28 PM
Was the OM married? Who did you expose your affair to?

Have you been tested for STD/I?

Your WH has had many affairs, but you say he isn't having an affair now. How have you confirmed this?

What EPs have you both been in place?

When is the last time you talked to OM? Are you still talking to him?

Have you changed all your contact information?

These are all questions that have been asked and you either won't answer or ignore the questions.

We can't help you if you aren't honest with us.

What have you done since your call with Dr. Harley?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 06:28 PM
Stopped talking to him but did not write NC. He is married...I apologized to his wife and promised not to talk to him anymore.

Did not expose.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Your WH has had many affairs, but you say he isn't having an affair now?


He has not had many affairs. One EA 5 years ago and last year another one--he did admit to kissing her--I know you all think I'm an idiot for believing that he didn't sleep with her, but I do believe him.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 06:56 PM
What about all my other questions?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
In addition to all my other questions.

Did you do what Dr. Harley recommended in your call? How much UA time are you getting?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Was the OM married? Who did you expose your affair to?

Have you been tested for STD/I?

Your WH has had many affairs, but you say he isn't having an affair now. How have you confirmed this?

What EPs have you both been in place?

When is the last time you talked to OM? Are you still talking to him?

Have you changed all your contact information?

These are all questions that have been asked and you either won't answer or ignore the questions.

We can't help you if you aren't honest with us.

What have you done since your call with Dr. Harley?



OM is married. I did apologize to his wife and tell her I would not communicate with him anymore.

Did not expose my affair to anyone except husband.

Have not been tested for STDs.

No EPs for H. For me I blocked him on chat we used. Deleted that email account.

Did I miss any questions?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 09:14 PM
As for UA time...definitely not 15 hours/week. Have tried to increase it, but haven't been very successful.
Posted By: Gamma Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/17/14 09:53 PM
LolaLove,


You wroteOM is married. I did apologize to his wife and tell her I would not communicate with him anymore.

But did you tell OMW that OM had sex with you? You should at least do her that kindness.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/18/14 01:10 AM
A few missed questions.
Your WH has had many affairs, but you say he isn't having an affair now. How have you confirmed this?


When is the last time you talked to OM? Are you still talking to him?

Have you changed all your contact information?

Why won't your husband give a list of EPs?

Did he write a NC Letter to his OW? Were any of his affairs exposed?

Have you told your kids about both of your affairs?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/18/14 11:31 AM
The most recent ea ended several month ago but he just recently finally resigned from a board that he was on with her. Sometimes it's really difficult to explain things to you all--things don't always seem as black and white from my end.

As for me I have not spoken to om for months--I have no desire or interest to do so. Got rid of means used to chat but still have my phone number--he has not tried to call and I would not answer-- I am truly disgusted with myself for what I did.

I believe husband won't do nc or ep's because he thinks his involvement with her had nothing to do with where we stand in our marriage and it is insignifcant in the big picture where he "doesn't have feelings for me". Its ridiculous I know-- I can't even explain to you how he feels but sometimes he tells me he thinks he is "sick" because he is so cynical about long-term relationships. He doesn't believe anyone is happy who has been married a long time.

We have not told our kids.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/18/14 11:32 AM
Oh and there has been no exposure--no affairs were active when I found mb.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/18/14 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Oh and there has been no exposure--no affairs were active when I found mb.
Dr. Harley says to expose even if it's been years after the affair was found out. I recommend you to expose both of your(yours and your WH's) affairs.

It is an affair that your WH had. He kissed her.

What about getting your UA time up like Dr. Harley recommends?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/18/14 07:48 PM
I am not being difficult but why? I thought the point of exposure is to kill the affair.

Also, just had a long talk with H. He told me again that he has no faith in himself to come out of the program "in love" and that is why he is so afraid to do it...he is afraid I will be in love and he won't and I will resent him. He asked if he could talk to Dr Harley before committing to the program...is that a possibility?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/18/14 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
I am not being difficult but why? I thought the point of exposure is to kill the affair.

Also, just had a long talk with H. He told me again that he has no faith in himself to come out of the program "in love" and that is why he is so afraid to do it...he is afraid I will be in love and he won't and I will resent him. He asked if he could talk to Dr Harley before committing to the program...is that a possibility?
That is very possible to talk to Dr. Harley. Email the Harley's back and let them know.
Posted By: Taffy1 Re: How to encourage husband - 04/19/14 03:10 PM
Ive been reading this thread from the beginning, well just started it a few days ago.
If my BS was writing your side of things it would look just the same!

When my emotional affair was first discovered, I did all the "right" things. NC letter etc. But due to circumstances I could not move jobs right away. I convinced my BS that I was not continuing this affair, but it was all a lie, I was so good at masking what was going on, it took her another 5 months to find out I was lying all the time. When I was confronted yet again I was really relieved to be discovered. By this time we had moved cities and I had moved out of the office I was working at which was the same place my OW worked.
I am a very strong character normally, but being in the fog of an affair, and seeing her daily, it was too much for me, no matter how much I wanted to end it.

So my first reaction is, I don't believe your husband is not still"hooked". I also was not convinced that Marriage Builders could fix things, how wrong I was, when I finally got involved in the Seminar Program I realized that my BS was the one I really loved both physically and emotionally.

All this said, I would doubt he can terminate any affair when he sees the OW in the work environment. Imagine yourself if every day you saw the person you had the affair with, even though physically it was a "one nighter".

Please ask you husband to read my post! I was ready to give up everything, friends and family for this other woman. But when my BS made full exposure after the second discovery, I was amazed at the vitriol from family and friends, I would have been excommunicated from my family based on their responses.

The things that first attracted us can be recovered, it just takes more work than an affair.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/19/14 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Taffy1
All this said, I would doubt he can terminate any affair when he sees the OW in the work environment.


Thank you for your input Taffy. He does not work with the OW, but was on a board for a foundation that she runs--he has finally resigned from that.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: How to encourage husband - 04/20/14 12:11 AM
Did you write Dr. Harley back?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/20/14 02:47 AM
Not yet...I mentioned it to H and he said he will contact them if he decides to...so we will see.

Can you tell me why exposure is important when there are no active affairs?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: How to encourage husband - 04/20/14 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Can you tell me why exposure is important when there are no active affairs?

Can you tell me why keeping secrets of evil deeds would be a good thing?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: How to encourage husband - 04/20/14 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Not yet...I mentioned it to H and he said he will contact them if he decides to...so we will see.

Can you tell me why exposure is important when there are no active affairs?
Here's what Dr. Harley says.
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lovers spouse should be informed. Granted, it's embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.

When Should an Affair Be Exposed?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: How to encourage husband - 04/28/14 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Can you tell me why keeping secrets of evil deeds would be a good thing?


I don't confess all of my sins to everyone. I just don't see what good it would do at this point other than seem like I'm being vindictive and turn him against MB when I am trying to get him to participate.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/30/14 05:56 PM
If anyone is interested I will be on the show again next Wednesday. Among other things we will be discussing whether there is a need for exposure at this point. Although my H does not want to be on the show he has agreed to email the Harleys with what is going on in his head.

Posted By: Darkguy Re: Feeling frustrated - 04/30/14 06:54 PM
Exposure kills the affair/speeds up the death and also holds the WS accountable for their actions. Your waffling out of fear and that never solves anything just makes it worse. Hope you follow the advice you will be getting on Wednesday.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/01/14 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
If anyone is interested I will be on the show again next Wednesday. Among other things we will be discussing whether there is a need for exposure at this point. Although my H does not want to be on the show he has agreed to email the Harleys with what is going on in his head.
Good, I will be listening.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/09/14 07:11 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by LolaLove
If anyone is interested I will be on the show again next Wednesday. Among other things we will be discussing whether there is a need for exposure at this point. Although my H does not want to be on the show he has agreed to email the Harleys with what is going on in his head.
Good, I will be listening.
I didn't hear a live show on this Wed (5-07). Were you on another day?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/09/14 11:44 AM
We moved it to next Wednesday (5/14) to give my H more time to respond. Please pray that he does follow through...I have given him all the info--email correspondence between Joyce and me, radio clips from the first time I was on and I had him listen to Joyce's voice mail asking him to be on the show or email them. He has been extremely busy with work and travel--do you think I should keep reminding him to do it ? I don't want to nag.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/09/14 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Can you tell me why keeping secrets of evil deeds would be a good thing?


I don't confess all of my sins to everyone. I just don't see what good it would do at this point other than seem like I'm being vindictive and turn him against MB when I am trying to get him to participate.


But you don't do it vindictively. You make it clear you are trying to salvage your marriage and are seeking support.

Affairs are a serious addiction fed on the oxygen of secrecy. Just as you would have an intervention for an alcoholic, you must get the support of everyone.

Originally Posted by LolaLove
He has been extremely busy with work and travel--do you think I should keep reminding him to do it ? I don't want to nag.


If you need to 'remind' him, that would suggest he has forgotten about the biggest crisis in his life right now. I doubt he has.

I would say once and once only that you expect him to take this seriously and give it his all if he expects you to stay in the marriage.

The best way to avoid nagging is to state your case, state the consequences and stick to the action you promised if they do not carry through.

Nagging results when we avoid taking our own actions and try to control those of others. Which is impossible.

Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/15/14 05:07 PM
Is anyone able to post a link to yesterday's show for me?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/16/14 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Is anyone able to post a link to yesterday's show for me?
You were on my list, sorry I'm late I'm on a crazy schedule. Here it is.
Radio Clip of LolaLove's Show
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/16/14 10:36 AM
Thank you BH! My H listened to it once but I want to listen to it with him and talk about it.

I thought the exposure discussion was very interesting.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/16/14 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Thank you BH! My H listened to it once but I want to listen to it with him and talk about it.

I thought the exposure discussion was very interesting.
You're welcome.

What are you going to do?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/17/14 12:20 PM
I honestly don't know. I don't feel like we are in crisis right now so it's easy to "do nothing" about the past affair issues.

I don't feel like I need the emotional support of others and there are very few people I would trust with the information (it would only become fodder for gossip in my workplace )

For now I am going to work on the things that I discussed with the Harleys (recreational companionship and conversation) and see where that takes us.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/17/14 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
I honestly don't know. I don't feel like we are in crisis right now so it's easy to "do nothing" about the past affair issues.

I don't feel like I need the emotional support of others and there are very few people I would trust with the information (it would only become fodder for gossip in my workplace )

For now I am going to work on the things that I discussed with the Harleys (recreational companionship and conversation) and see where that takes us.
Are you able to get the 15 hours of UA time in?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/18/14 11:37 AM
Struggling with that too. Idk..I'm feeling like I may have to settle for a "just OK" marriage. I'm tired of being the only one that puts in any effort. We will probably go along like this until he cheats again...that's how I feel today.
Posted By: markos Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/19/14 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Struggling with that too. Idk..I'm feeling like I may have to settle for a "just OK" marriage. I'm tired of being the only one that puts in any effort. We will probably go along like this until he cheats again...that's how I feel today.

Unfortunately marriages typically don't stay "just OK." Trying to accept "just OK" is usually devastating to a wife. She really does need to have her emotional needs met. In Dr. Harley's experience, it is worth it for a wife to tell her husband that if he wants to stay with her, he will have to arrange his lifestyle so that he is meeting her emotional needs. If he indicates that he doesn't care and tries to talk her out of it and make excuses and propose that he shouldn't have to do that and that she should be happy anyway, it is usually best to plan for a separation. This sometimes wakes some men up. And if it doesn't, she is usually better off on her own than dying a slow emotional and physical death in her marriage. Yes, a bad marriage really is physically damaging to many women.

There are only two ways to go: up or down. Don't hang around here for years in a mediocre marriage - eventually you will be here letting us know that now you can't do anything about it, or you are facing hospitalization, or suffering as he has another affair. Good marriages are usually the marriages where a wife insists that there is either going to be a good marriage, or NO marriage. It is important for her own welfare that she do so.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/19/14 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by markos
Good marriages are usually the marriages where a wife insists that there is either going to be a good marriage, or NO marriage.


Thanks, Markos. Yesterday he did agree to do the EN questionnaire so that is a start.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/19/14 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by markos
Good marriages are usually the marriages where a wife insists that there is either going to be a good marriage, or NO marriage.


Thanks, Markos. Yesterday he did agree to do the EN questionnaire so that is a start.
Good.

Are you signed up for the online program?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/20/14 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Are you signed up for the online program?


No...that is what i was originally asking for advice about...how to encourage him to do the online pogram.

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/20/14 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Are you signed up for the online program?


No...that is what i was originally asking for advice about...how to encourage him to do the online pogram.
He's open to filling out the questionnaires, and so that's a good sign. Does he know about the online program yet?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/20/14 10:39 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Does he know about the online program yet?

He does know about the online program but he says he "doesn't know why why we need a program". My response was that I've been telling him for 3 years that I need more from him and it hasn't happened. He is afraid that he will resent "being forced to do it."

I feel like he is starting to pick up little pieces of Dr Harley's plan, but he just doesn't quite get it. Like last night he told me that he would be staying out 2 evenings this week for work. I said, " you're not supposed to just tell me, you're supposed to be sure its ok with me." His reply was "I have to ask permission to go to a work event?" That upset me so I just stopped talking to him.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/20/14 03:54 PM
He either gets with the program or he loses you.
If he keeps dragging his feet on this you're not going to make it.

Starting a program of recovery to build a romantic marriage is part of Just Compensation. You need it, or your marriage is just going to limp along as a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.
Posted By: markos Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/20/14 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by markos
Good marriages are usually the marriages where a wife insists that there is either going to be a good marriage, or NO marriage.


Thanks, Markos. Yesterday he did agree to do the EN questionnaire so that is a start.

The questionnaire on its own won't accomplish much - our boards are littered with people who've filled them out and never gone any further. What I'd really be interested in seeing is - will he commit to following the Policy of Undivided Attention, and following Dr. Harley's procedures for eliminating love busters? If so, there's a good chance here - if not, I would prepare for a separation.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/25/14 01:08 AM
I want to order the 5 Steps to Romantic Love workbook...do we each need our own or just one for both of us?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Feeling frustrated - 05/25/14 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
I want to order the 5 Steps to Romantic Love workbook...do we each need our own or just one for both of us?
It has sets of his and her questionnaires in each book. So you only need the one.
Posted By: LolaLove Need help - 06/10/14 02:29 PM
Have been very frustrated with H this past week. I was away last weekend for 4 days and when I came back got very little attention from him. I have told him a few times in the past few days that I need more from him and I was tired of being last on his priority list. Last night we had another "discussion". He told me he is unable to make the kind of commitment that I need from him. I then told him he needs to leave if that is true. He said, "OK I'll leave." This morning he was sweet and kind.

I want to write him a "last chance" letter speaking my heart to him but I don't know what is important to say. I don't want it to be full of DJ's--I feel like he owes me but I know I shouldn't say that. Can anyone help me with this? I am really at the end of my rope considering everything that has gone on these past few years, but I want him to know that I don't want to give up.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Need help - 07/26/14 04:17 PM
I have read so many threads here where people didn't do what they were told but of course I thought my situation was different and I could skip steps. I am not trying to be dramatic, but I am terrified of what I have to do next.

Basically, I figured out yesterday that WH still has feelings for the OW in spite of how many times he told me he didn't. I have been monitoring their contact very closely and it has been minimal (a work-related email here and there), but recently I saw what looked like a few more personal emails (her asking if she could get his input on something,him asking how she's doing) and yesterday I just happened to check his "where's my iphone" and saw that he was at her work place for about 1/2 hour. Then I saw a text to his best friend basically saying that he and OW were not alone when he went there--his friend's reply was "shoot". So clearly the two of them (WH and his friend) had talked about him going there to see her.

WH also continues in other SSL patterns...i.e. not telling me he had a day off yesterday, meeting female friends for drinks, etc., etc.

Here is my question...can I hand him the list of EPs, ask him to send the NC letter, and make the online program a requirement and if he refuses to do any of those tell him he has to move out?

I know what I have to do, I'm just not sure what the process is at this point.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Need help - 07/26/14 04:32 PM
Has the affair been properly exposed? That's the first step.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Need help - 07/26/14 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Has the affair been properly exposed? That's the first step.


No...I guess I don't know how to do that at this point because it is really not still an affair. What would I tell people other than "they're talking to each other"? Wouldn't it be really easy for him to say "we're just friends"?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Need help - 07/26/14 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Has the affair been properly exposed? That's the first step.


No...I guess I don't know how to do that at this point because it is really not still an affair. What would I tell people other than "they're talking to each other"? Wouldn't it be really easy for him to say "we're just friends"?
All waywards say "their just friends".

Is this the same woman he had the affair with or is this a new OW?
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Need help - 07/27/14 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Is this the same woman he had the affair with or is this a new OW?

Yes...same one.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Need help - 07/27/14 03:00 AM
1. You need to properly expose the affair. If they are still in contact, it is STILL an affair. It is no surprise at all that he still has feelings for her.

2. All contact must cease. He must find a new job. You will never recover as long as contact continues. Contact keeps the affair alive.

3. Make Marriage Builders a requirement for recovery.

If he refuses any of this, kick him out and go to Plan B.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Need help - 07/27/14 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
I have read so many threads here where people didn't do what they were told but of course I thought my situation was different and I could skip steps. I am not trying to be dramatic, but I am terrified of what I have to do next.

Basically, I figured out yesterday that WH still has feelings for the OW in spite of how many times he told me he didn't. I have been monitoring their contact very closely and it has been minimal (a work-related email here and there), but recently I saw what looked like a few more personal emails (her asking if she could get his input on something,him asking how she's doing) and yesterday I just happened to check his "where's my iphone" and saw that he was at her work place for about 1/2 hour. Then I saw a text to his best friend basically saying that he and OW were not alone when he went there--his friend's reply was "shoot". So clearly the two of them (WH and his friend) had talked about him going there to see her.

WH also continues in other SSL patterns...i.e. not telling me he had a day off yesterday, meeting female friends for drinks, etc., etc.

Here is my question...can I hand him the list of EPs, ask him to send the NC letter, and make the online program a requirement and if he refuses to do any of those tell him he has to move out?

I know what I have to do, I'm just not sure what the process is at this point.


Yes! You should demand that he ends this affair and if he refuses then enter Plan B.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Feeling frustrated - 07/27/14 04:12 AM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
I want to order the 5 Steps to Romantic Love workbook...do we each need our own or just one for both of us?

At this stage, I dont think the workbook would help you.
The only book you should be studying is Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley.
Also, listen to his Radio Show daily (if you arent already a daily listener)
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Feeling frustrated - 07/27/14 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
At this stage, I dont think the workbook would help you.
The only book you should be studying is Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley.
Also, listen to his Radio Show daily (if you arent already a daily listener)

The workbook has been sitting on my dresser since I ordered it...now I know why.

I agree I really need to read SAA...I started it awhile back, but thought we were moving beyond that.

I do try to listen to the show daily.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Need help - 07/27/14 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
If they are still in contact, it is STILL an affair.


I am not arguing with you at all...just trying to get things clear in my head. What defines it as an affair? What if she has no feelings for him but he is just pursuing her, trying to rekindle it? I believe it was this time last year when they started their affair so it makes sense that he is being "triggered" now.
Posted By: LolaLove Re: Need help - 07/27/14 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
He must find a new job.


They do not actually work together.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Need help - 07/27/14 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by Prisca
If they are still in contact, it is STILL an affair.


I am not arguing with you at all...just trying to get things clear in my head. What defines it as an affair? What if she has no feelings for him but he is just pursuing her, trying to rekindle it? I believe it was this time last year when they started their affair so it makes sense that he is being "triggered" now.
Have you read this?

Recovery After an Affair
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Need help - 07/27/14 01:30 PM
When will you be exposing? You have skipped this very important step and that is why this affair has never ended.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Need help - 07/27/14 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by LolaLove
Originally Posted by Prisca
He must find a new job.


They do not actually work together.
No, but they continue to have contact and they met through his job.
© Marriage BuildersĀ® Forums