First: I am so pleased and excited to have found this site and information presented. This has now and will forever continue to change my life. Currently read most of the website and reading "Surviving an Affair, Dr. Harley" and "You will get through this, Marc Lucado."

Of course I am not here because of good fortune. My situation is similar to some others posted, but I am unsure if the answers they received are the same as I need.
D-Day, Jan 2, 2014. 22 year anniversary Jan 3, 2014. Kids 19 and 16. I will try to be brief so there is not a book for you to read through.

I found that my wife was doing many many things behind my back. I have discovered over 400 texts a day between WW and OM; mostly when she was at work or I was busy with kids. I found 2 hotel room charges on WW credit card (not joint) On nights she was supposed to be working overnight shifts. I found explicit images on her phone sent from OM.

Confrontation begun and has continued for 3 weeks. WW continues to state that I know everything. More and more information leeks out almost daily. She did confess and continues to work on it. WW claims this to be only an EA. "But we didn't have sex!" WW did choose me and broke off contact very soon after D-Day. NC not done yet! Well, not completely to the rules of Dr. Harley; or to my liking.

She claims that the past is behind us and that we should move on and repair. This is my problem. As more details appear, I find triggers and the house falls down. Easily put?

1. Am I just like many others in that the details are important to me because of whom I am rather than their importance?
2. Is proof of Intimacy make a difference in, what is an affair?
3. Does it matter that both parties view Infidelity differently?
4. Am I breaking up the foundation when the only problem is that she has not closed the door to the past by revealing all?
5. I think I found "proof"; and as others stated that is all you need, details not included; but isn't it more important the WW admit and confess all?
6. What if I am wrong and this is all? How to know as the only information is words provided by WW? Which I should not believe.
7. Any others self observed words of wisdom?


Thank you,

Standing alone with no friends or family and feel as if I am building my house on quicksand.

400 texts per day translates to around 12,000 texts per month.

Their connection, at minimum, emotionally and very highly physically too is deeply entrenched. She is only providing Trickle Truths.

Do NOT believe any of what she says!!!

She gas probably taken the affair underground now that she has been busted.

Read the Operation Investigate sub-forum on this site and set up snooping on her cell phone, computer and installing a VAR hidden in her car.

You need to know the truth about the condition of your marriage.

Read through the, "Start Here First" thread at the top of the SAA section.

You also need to know what you can do to correct any past faults you had in the marriage, which is called Plan A.

Please provide more details about your marriage, family, children and work situations so others can provide accurate assistance.

Also, do you know this OM?

How do they know each other?

LTL

400 texts per day translates to around 12,000 texts per month.
Correct!

Their connection, at minimum, emotionally and very highly physically too is deeply entrenched. She is only providing Trickle Truths.
Only from what I find. Nothing has been given up from her.

Do NOT believe any of what she says!!!
This is my problem.

She has probably taken the affair underground now that she has been busted.
Proof actually leads as to not.

Read the Operation Investigate sub-forum on this site and set up snooping on her cell phone, computer and installing a VAR hidden in her car.
Couple Tracker is really good., But I have My Mobile Watchdog. Proved NC.

You need to know the truth about the condition of your marriage.
She claims to want to work on it. But, refers to 3rd point.

Read through the, "Start Here First" thread at the top of the SAA section.
Did. I miss something?

You also need to know what you can do to correct any past faults you had in the marriage, which is called Plan A.
EN - Communication, admiration; building seems to fall in quicksand.

Please provide more details about your marriage, family, children and work situations so others can provide accurate assistance.
Married when she was 16; this was Jan 2, 1992. Son 19 away to college. Daughter 16 Junior in High School. She is RN and works 3 12 hour days a week. Twice a month (supposedly) works night shift. I am IT Nerd and have much time available. I have no family or (true) friends. Had my own apartment when I was 10 and on my own ever since. Navy Veteran, Military Brat, Military raised, Military Mindset.

Also, do you know this OM?
She said "I thought he was a friend of your and then I befriended him which went to far."

How do they know each other?
Related to group of persons we (used to) meet up with to go dancing.

Is the OM married?

I would make an appointment for a polygraph test. She should welcome one with open arms in order to clear her good name and get all the truth out on the table. I would make the appointment and when you tell her, hand her a list of all of your questions and give her one last chance to come clean. Sort of like an amnesty period. But you fully expect her to pass the test afterwards. Most waywards will sing like a canary.

I suspect the affair is not over since she is being so cagey. What is her explanation about the motel charges?

IT is usually a big mistake to ASK a wayward for the truth. It is better to get the facts and then show them that you know. You don't need the confession of a liar to know the truth.

The 1st thread in this section is pinned to the top, called Newcomers, Start Here First.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695379#Post2695379

That link has D-Dayall the beginner links to learn more quickly. Time is of the essence at the beginning after D-Day.

LTL

1. Some people need the details some don't want the details. Everybody is different. What you need is what you need.

2. Again this varies from BS to BS. For some an EA is not very bad but a PA is. Some Think and EA is worse than a PA. It all comes down to what you Think.

3. Yes it does. But only for the chance of a successfull R. If the WS doesn't beleive it to be an A but the BS does, imagine what the outcome will be. A lot of resentment opn both sides and probarbly a failed R.

4. No she is breaking down the Foundation by not giving you what you need. Actually she already broke the Foundation by having an A. You need a lot of work to rebuild again if it is possible.

5. Again Everything depends on the BS. If it is important to you that she confesses and tells you all then it is.

6. You can't get all. What you can do is have your WW take one or several polygraphs. THat will help you get closer to the truth hopefully but you will never be 100% that you know Everything since you can't trust your WW.

7. Talk to a lawyer to know your rights and be prepared if things go sour. Also Think about what you need from your WW to be able to heal, feel safe and start building trust again. Expose the A far and wide. Tell your kids, hers and your parents, Friends and family. Etc..

She has excuses that lead me to believes.
I exposed to her and she thought of just a friendship.
She still contends that "Nothing happened"
It has continued to evolve and this just makes me worry more.
OM is not married. Homeless (lives with sister) and part-time job.
Polygraph, she is okay with but money is issue.

Hotel, was for him, as he is with family and had "Drama." I explained this does not make since for her to drive 3 hours out of her way and spend gas and time and take 4 hours off work for this. BUT, this leads into; details Do? Do Not? matter? I say hotel with another man is affair, period. But there are many cases, from many people, of friendship acts of kindness that just does not look good.

"You don't need the confession of a liar to know the truth."
Leads me into, difference of EA vs A? Any really other than title? How to get WW to see that? As she wants to quantify to everyone I have exposed this to. (her friends and her parents.)

If she could aford to pay for a hotel twize you can affort a polygraph.

The norm is to calssify and A as EA, PA or both.

An EA is an emotional affair. This means that there is no physical aspect to the affair. So no kissing, no sex, no oral, no petting. However, there is feelings involved. THere might be infatuation, love.

A PA is a physical affair. THis means there is some form of physical aspect to the A. It could be kissing, touching with clothes on sex, oral etc...

The point is that you don't need the admission of a liar to know truth. This is a needless tarpit. Just tell her you KNOW she slept with the OM whether she wants to admit it or not. But lying about it just makes her look much worse.

Tell your family, friends, and children that your WW had a sexual affair with JoeScumbag and met him several times at Motel XXX. The affair went on from XX to XX.

That is all that is necessary. This is not a complicated issue so don't make it more complicated than it really is.

And then if your wife wants to lie to everybody and call it a "friendship" where they just met at a hotel room and read scripture together and sang praise songs to Jesus, then let her make an [censored] out of herself. When she says it was a "friendship" just roll your eyes and say "good grief.."

I would add his sister to your exposure list. Be sure and expose the affair to everyone YOURSELF without telling her first. Include your children. And don't mince words. Just tell them it was sexual affair and you have the hotel bills.

What Mel said x 2. Hotel bills and this ^^^^ Do you have the pics still?

Sorry you are here but welcome to MB.

Okay, so exposure complete.
Facts I have are good enough.

In SAA at chapter 7, First Steps.
Any advise? How to possibly leave behind and NC, no discuss the past?

Tricks to saying I have triggered and need a walk? I do not want to love buster in this case. But as this is new, am very nerve shot and unsure.

huh? What do you mean by this? What did you do to whom?


You are putting the cart before the horse. Lets discuss your one line "exposure."

I have been exposing in trickle (for help) to some.
Just did FB and Text to others. Although some are with her understanding that this EA is just a hump. All are on board in helping and understanding we are in Repair.

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of XXXX and I. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that she has been carrying on an affair with XXXX who resides in XXXX. This was carried on behind my back from September 2013 unti January.

I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my Love, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with XXXX to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage. If you desire any further information, please feel free to contact me.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,
XXXXXXXX
*************************
Replies in kind of: here for you, prayers with you...
Did get a few that did not like the facebook notice. But have not had any negative.,.
WS was in full agreement to pursue action as to move on (after I did on my own). At least just for me.

I would take a more serious approach and contact her parents, close family, friends, and most importantly, your children.

What about the OM's sister?


Let her know that "moving on" will begin once she confesses the truth. Tell her you know the truth and need her to stop lying. The lying is making recovery impossible.

Huh?

An EA? You don't have full disclosure yet so no you don't just stop talking about the affair forever. Have you told your children or confronted OM?

The purpose of exposure is to get the TRUTH out there. It is not an "EA." That is a lie.

Nobody goes to hotel rooms to just "chat" with anybody. This is clearly a PA.

Why aren't you following the plan laid out in the Exposure 101 thread, which has been linked for you??

You can't move to the next steps until you have killed the affair first. I don't see any sign that this has been accomplished, yet...

You are doing just enough to motivate your WW to throw some crumbs at you and take the affair further underground.

You are still calling this an EA, when she has been caught sneaking to a motel with him. How can you have the "facts" if she is still lying to you?

Trying to not be to specific.
WS is compasionate, comforting. Typical with no desire for intamacy. I am Nerd, very much in need of comfort and acceptance. However also Military; yell and argue. (used to)

I have facts and proof that WS was getting EN from another, possibly more. This is enough for A. She is in complete joint agreement we call this an Affair and has tried to provide all details she can remember. I may not understand (as being a male) but do follow the logic of events and concide that we had problems and things must change. I beleive the advise is well taken that either EA or PA is still an affair. This I think is a great joint agreement.

From advise given: "quite making this more difficult."

The tough part is the male in me that believes everyone wants physical contact.

At any rate, there is positively NC with OM. WS is regretful and wishes to work on marriage. This is a positive and very difficult with my nerves and beliefs in the way.

Mostly here looking for my femine side to recover. Ideas, insights, wisdom as to calm my nerves.

The best way to calm your nerves would be to follow the recovery plan in Surviving an Affair by Dr Willard Harley

Affair KILLED, trust me; KILLED. NC letter not sent but message clear. He was left a voicemail and sent a text. OM is not to be found for the last few weeks. All I can do is keep up on her openess now. WS is letting me in on all aspect of "guarantee no contact" as per SAA. Tracker on her phone now, My Mobile Watchdog. WS is not happy but understands and will do whatever it takes.

You did a good job sending that letter but you need to make sure everyone else gets it tonight, specifically:

OM family and friends.
your family and her family.

You need to do this tonight.
Have you done a criminal background check on OM?

X2

The policy of joint agreement does not apply here and you are not in recovery. This is a physical affair. She went to the hotel with the man and had sex with him.

Helping a wayward perpetuate a lie is called ENABLING.

Therefore, you should tell everyone the truth: that she had an affair with [give his full name] and they met at a hotel several times.


I woulf focus rather on what is true. What is true is that they had sex in a motel.


True regret is not demonstrated by lying. Her actions negate your words.


We can help you with a very masculine program of recovery. But it starts with the truth. You have to start telling the truth if you want the truth from her. If you want her to tell the truth, then you should stop telling silly stories about how a physical affair is an emotional affair.

Helping a wayward perpetuate a lie is called ENABLING.

That is good. Now if you would stop enabling her silly, unbelievable story about the affair. That only emboldens her to be a liar and I doubt that is what you really want. The policy of joint agreement has nothing to do with perpetuating lies for a lying wayward.

**I do not know how you guys do that quote thing.
"OM family and friends.
"your family and her family.

All notified. Stated it was an A (over now) and we love each other.


"Helping a wayward perpetuate a lie is called ENABLING.

As stated in first post. This is not a normal situation. I do believe that she could take a 5 day cruise with another male and never touch him! Please understand that if given the specifics you would see what I mean. She did realize that in hindsight the OM was trying PA and she didn't provide. But did also wake up and realize that the friendship turned to EA (still and A) and needed to stop! She has stopped and is trying to help me see that the A is over. I do believe that the A is over and was really trying to get my head around EA vs PA.

Putting things simple, it was an A, WS confessed, WS provided details. We want to work on this.

I hope you understand that I am trying to make matters clear. Without clarity I cannot expect anyone to provide understandable advice. I have talked to others around me, but yet to understand and assist as you all have.

If she didn't have sex then she should be very willing to take a polygraph.
The issue is honesty and you need to know; she could have AIDS for all you know right now...

Kingsrr,

Can you really imagine yourself 10 or 15 years from now still believing that there was no sex?

If your WW is telling the truth she will be more than willing to take a polygraph.

Also your WW needs to be tested for STDs before you have relations with her again.

Without honesty you will not recover your marriage.

God Bless
Gamma

Yes, WW will take poly. Just paid mortgage so don't have 500 to ease my mind.

Here.
Polygraph Testing

Have you and your WW been tested for STD/I?

At the bottom of each post there is a link to click to "quote". It is easy and helps us to understand what you are referring to.

Affairs are never just "over now". By not following the plan exactly, we run the risk of going years into our lives and having the same ugly truths suddenly rear their heads. On the other hand, for those that follow the recovery plan, most report that their marriages are better than ever within two years! And it doesn't take two years to start seeing the progress when both are working together.

I hope that you will heed everyone's warning not to bury this, get that Poly, it is way more important than any bills that are due.
*Every*single*affair* on here follows the "normal" situation of the wayward's mind. Fog. All lies. Until the fog has cleared, which takes 6-8 weeks to begin clearing. I've yet to read a single story that is unusual or different. I've only been reading here for 7 months though, so I admit that I may be wrong.

I just get nerves going crazy every day. Good at night after we connect, bad during day when alone with brain.
Techniques?

Fog- 3 weeks now.

We all get nerves going crazy every day after we discover that we are betrayed. We feel like we can recover one minute, and then think that we want to divorce the next minute.

Once your WW comes clean on all of the details, and once she ends contact and comes out of the fog, THEN she will start to show empathy for your feelings and will do what she can to re-assure you.

Actually, there are some wonderful techniques for dealing with the mind memories. I am not on my normal computer, so can someone else please link?

Fog - 3 weeks now�sorry to say that the clock starts only once there is certain NO CONTACT. We went six months into "recovery" and then my H left only a message on the affair partner's answering machine, and the clock re-started because the fog was THICK as pea soup from his only hearing her voice.

Two hotel receipts just to talk.

Hotel room
What room
They don't need no stinkin' hotel room to talk

Your WW is trickle truthing. She is only admitting to what you can prove.
She is still denying what happened, which is they had sex.

Have you noticed all the people here are saying they did not just talk?

Get that poly ASAP. Have a garage sale to get the money if need be.

Is seeking medical for AD worth the time and money?

WW did a session of honesty and reveal. WW says more than sorry and pretty much willing and is doing anything she can. Which is one reason why I want to believe I have the whole truth. The other is the facts I have surrounding the hotel visits do fit with her details. NO SEX! I know this is hard for any man to believe, but many women agree with NO SEX! Her parents also believe there was NO SEX!

Get ADs and a poly. I am a woman and think your wife had sex with OM. You will be wasting time and energy until you have the truth. Your wife is lying.

Yes, anti-depressants have helped many people. Wellbutrin has lower side effects than many others. If you are feeling some depression, you should tell your doctor about what is going on.


More information than she previously provided to you?


Then there should be absolutely NO problem with her taking a Poly to prove there wasn't any sex!

Please note that the WOMEN on this forum don't believe it. And we have the advantage of being familiar with cheaters. If your wife is telling the truth, then she should pass her polygraph with flying colors!

Waywards don't meet their affair partners in hotel rooms unless it is to have sex. I am also a woman and I don't believe her story for one second.

If she's lying to you about this, it makes me very very suspicious that the affair has just gone further underground.

It's pretty clear that your WW is very hopeful the poly will never be followed through with.

My ex also swore on a stack of bibles that he had told me "the whole truth" and enthusiastically agreed to poly. It never happened....I later found out he, in fact, was still hiding things...a lot of things....

We actually see this a lot on the forums....it's a bad combination of a BS wanting to believe their WS and just move on to recovery + gaslighting wayward....and that's why we push people not to put it on the back burner.

If you don't get the truth, you are facing a false recovery. And NOBODY here -- I repeat NOBODY -- wants to see you endure that.

You keep emphatically stating that NC is in place. But here you tell us she was communicating with the OM "mostly when she was at work". She still works currently 12 hr shifts and overnight shifts! You realize that she can EASILY still be communicating with the OM through the work phone or computer at work, right?

She may also have a secret affair phone now that she knows you have a watchdog program on her phone - since it seems you got her "joint agreement" on this. Not something we would have recommended. At all.






This is an especially CRUEL tactic of a wayward - a slow dripping of trickle truth daily for three weeks. I don't believe for ONE SECOND that she finally "told you everything". She has been playing that card from day one.






No NC letter being sent is a BIG RED FLAG that the affair is not over. Which I suspected before I even saw this fact.

Sorry to tell you but you are in a FALSE RECOVERY, kingsrr.

How long has this affair been going on? I don't see that anywhere, unless I missed it.

Was this exposed to your children?

I hope you will answer these questions...

4 months in all.
Kids talked to.

Also, as all different. NC was message to OM as he dare not answer phone. As I told her to never talk to him again, she made it clear to OM immediately. Didn't text is the Dr.Harley missing part.

Again different, WS was in denial of A and had to piece it together. No sex was no A in her mind.

Yes, am worried she is away long times and could be doing things. But can not be at her side forever, var not needed for me.

BTW: exposure to his sisters and they replied displeasure. They will help in any way possible.
So not worried about underground.

Why are you not worried that it has gone underground? She has plenty of opportunity and no reason to stop.

That was my issue.
She is over OM and wants me.
She put in past. She wants Recover now.
She is doing what she can to get me there.

I don't feel closure or trust.
At this point its diff from others as she woke up before I discovered. I am just making sure ground is strong before I build on it.

Reason, WW chose me, even before we started fixing us. 22 years and plenty of problems, she thinks we can fix this one also. WW is reading 2 books now. Both recommended by Dr. Harley.

The problem is that this is a garden variety affair and unless she changes the environment that led to the affair, it will continue. Dr Harley would tell her to remove the conditions that led to the affair.


Which ones? Did she speak to Dr Harley?

Yes, conditions removed. Mostly WW thinking op-sex friends okay to be intense.

Books. SAA. And another to help her drive. (Both are great!)

What did you say to your children? Did you tell your children that their mother went to a hotel with OM several times?

Yes. Kids 16 and 19. Gave all . all. Facts.
I believe they are at great age to understand and learn from. They are good and giving us more space to vent and work.
I love them so much, they have shinned so much through this.

Sorry, this again was for me.
How to move on. WW wants to. Dr. Harley says to. Friends want me to.
Its just really hard and I constantly second guess.

Kingsrr,

Even if your WW is done with OM, the fact that she is still dishonest with your about what happened is going to prevent her from recovering from this affair.

WWs continued dishonesty is also the basis for the next affair, get the polygraph there is a good chance WW will confess on the way to the polygraph in the car.

God Bless
Gamma

I've never heard Dr. Harley utter those words except in the context that a wayward is just gone. Never during recovery. Sounds like a helluva lot of rugsweeping going on here.

Her parents may say they believe her. Though dollars to doughnuts they have their doubts. Though the will never admit them to you.

I hate to say how many years, 10+, reading affair forums. This experience is what makes me believe there was sex. Now your WW can be using the Clinton defense. Anyway I have seen more BH's then I can remember as you. Denying the truth that this was a PA. Because without concrete evidence and your WW not admitting that she did the OM. You can do your own damage control. And, continue to live in the land of denial.

Think about it. Flea bag motel $50, nice one $100. Who us going to spend that much money to have a place to talk?

Sit in a diner over a cup of coffee. Dunkin to go. Then drive to a Park and park.

Not really in full agreement that a Poly will help all that much. But I do see that it should help me at least. Maybe get her to see severity as well.

I am going to take her Saturday am. Will let y'all know.

also: I am still in the fog thinking that as long as WW admitted the A, regardless of how long or how intense, this is a step. That WW has NC for life, is a bigger step. That WW is extremely apologetic and eager to SAA. That points that matter most are made; and I should get off this kick and work toward the long road of R.

I dont understand your post.
Is she taking a polygraph this Saturday?

Not all BSs want to know every nitty gritty detail...and that is fine. However, being eager to jump into recovery when important, basic details are still unanswered will be a problem...it always is. The BSs that ignore the fact finding end up never recovering because the "truth" gnaws at them or they end up being duped and have a FR. That WW is extremely apologetic and eager may be an indication that she wants you two to go steam full ahead vs you uncovering more truth about what happened. This is typical. Do not bypass necessary steps to confirm the truth or answer questions you may have...many regret it.

Yes. Poly Saturday.

From what I read in http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659680#Post1659680
and the book/ I believe that The steps are complete and poly not needed.
Step 1: Military-grade operation to develop intelligence
DONE

Step 2: Confront your wayward spouse
DONE

Step 3: Since your wayward spouse has not admitted to the infidelity it's necessary to expose...to end their relationship.
DONE; admittance and exposure

Step 4: You've studied Plan A...Plan A gives you the opportunity to work on yourself and the marriage
Where I think I should be. Working on it not dwelling.

Step 5: Plan A sometimes works...Therefore, a Plan A is usually, logically, followed by Plan B.
Plan A did work. According to my logic.

Step 6: There are no guarantees in life. Sometimes all that you can do doesn't result in your wayward spouse returning home, becoming repentant, and agreeing to work hard on the marriage.
N/A; WW is home, repentant and agree to work hard on the marriage.

Ex. Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

Some people are better at remembering than others
Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.

I understand that concept. I have done very much fact finding and WW has answered to all of them. WW time, WW location, etc. There is now proof (from work documents) that WW could have only stayed in the hotel with OM for ~30min. Although enough time for action; surely not expected on a first time lovers visit. This makes sense of WW accountability that she got room for OM needs.
Yes, she is that kind of a person that would get used by others.

So it goes to my reason. Spending 500$ to prove that the 30 min is not drive time vs action? Seems to sound like I am dwelling on details not needed. Appears to me that I will be wasting energy and efforts that only still leave doubt. Doubt that Poly is wrong, doubt that questions were wrong. As per my previous; I have confession and details. Per Dr. Harley, "but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster."

Do everything you can to find out the truth. Your marriage cannot recover when dishonesty is still present. That is the reason that you are having your WW do a poly - to prove what the truth is. Only when you know the truth can you proceed to the next steps.

I think that having the truth is worth every penny.

Also, you need to know all the avenues that were used for contact during the affair. You need to figure out what EP's to put into place so that another affair doesn't happen in the future.

SAA p.81
WW answered my ?'s. Provided physical proof where possible.
This is why I lean towards my lack of trust in the way and not her dishonesty.
I truly believe this to be the case described on p.24, 2nd paragraph.

All avenues were text and co friends.
Text tracked via app and carrier. Friends NC done also.

It would be crazy to skip this step with a truth-trickling wayward who is telling a story that no one here on the SAA forum believes. So good job on following through.

I have a feeling your WW will be working hard to make you happy and feel the poly isn't necessary so be on your guard. Let us know what happens with the poly.

Yes. That is what has me.
She is doing anything to make me happy. And against $ on poly. Goes to stories on here as red flag.

I am not sure if it is lies or apologies that is making her do so much.

Don't overthink it. It needs to get done ASAP.

THEN you can move on to recovery. You're not there yet. Don't let your WW trick you into thinking you are...

Has she changed all contact information?

Has she given you a list of EPs?

EP ?

Also these?

What is Just Compensation?
Polygraph Testing
Extraordinary Precautions-Revised SAA

Extraordinary Precations.

Read the links that Brainy just posted.

LTL

Yes all 3
JC ongoing
EP's all in place.
Poly Saturday. Have read that couple times.

Listened to last segment on Just Compensation.
Dr. H says "...once asked for forgiveness we are to treat them as this never happened."
My WW continues to repent and ask for forgiveness daily, at least once.

Now, why am I and this group not letting go?

Because the affair topic becomes off limits, ONLY after the full and complete truth comes out.

Obviously, everyone more experienced in the signs of infidelity see many red flags that you are dismissing.

LTL

What EPs? Can you list them?

Has she changed all her contact information?

Update
WW refuses to poly.
Gave me more info and swears, again, I know all about EA.
All info is in the form of her "words." No physical evidence at all to back her "words." My trust is gone, so I am unsure of how to continue or even step towards R.

If she refuses to take a polygraph i would assume that the affair is ongoing

On 1/27 you said she was okay with a polygraph.
So she basically lied to you.
There is only ONE reason why a person would refuse to take a polygraph...

Kings,

Tell WW you now know that the affair was full physical and there is nothing she can tell you that you haven't already imagined, and that the only thing worse than what she did is her lies. You can forgive anything except her dishonesty!

Tell her just as a sick person has to get rid of there illness completely, she has to make a full confession, you can't forgive what you don't know.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma, I do understand and she does say this:
"I did hurt you. I did have an affair. I have not contacted him since we talked about it. I told you all. I am sorry. I love you."

She had a PA, refuses to tell you what happened, refuses to take a poly so you will never learn the full extent.

Either you accept her stonewalling you, or you force the issue. That is all there is to understand.

From personal experience being left in the dark without answers to your questions will leave you 30+ years later still needing the answers.

Has she sent a NC letter?

Changed all her contact information?

Ignore a WS's words and look at their actions. Refusing poly? Big red flag.

Thank you all for your wisdom. As you are all aware this is not a 1/2 hour decision and process. Feel free to comment more if you desire and know that I am watching this thread.

Thank you greatly!
King SRR.
Building on quicksand without friends or family.

But back to my questions.1. Am I just like many others in that the details are important to me because of whom I am rather than their importance?
Don't sweat each specific. Just that it was an affair and is over.
2. Is proof of Intimacy make a difference in, what is an affair?
An A is just that. Proof is all that is needed to confront. Admittance and forgiveness is all that is requested.
3. Does it matter that both parties view Infidelity differently?
Many people have definitions. As long as WS and BS are on the same page, R is possible.
4. Am I breaking up the foundation when the only problem is that she has not closed the door to the past by revealing all?
Finally she did confess to her actions.
5. I think I found "proof"; and as others stated that is all you need, details not included; but isn't it more important the WW admit and confess all?
WS confessed to her actions.
6. What if I am wrong and this is all? How to know as the only information is words provided by WW? Which I should not believe.
Only ? left. Any other means than poly? No friends or other details. No full trust in poly and $ to afford. I did pull out all tricks and got much confessions and apologies. Where and how does regaining trust come in?
7. Any others self observed words of wisdom?
Always welcomed.

Kingsrr,

One problem is that your WW knows she is lying to you even if you do not know for sure and your marriage will not recover.

As far as other ways to tell, you can speak with OM tell him you know the affair was sexual and you need to know how many times, act as if your WW already told you about it.

If your WW had money for OM and hotel and who knows how much more WW spent on OM, she has money for a polygraph.

Please do not have sex with your WW as she needs testing for STDs.

God Bless
Gamma

I don't understand why you keep asking people the same thing over and over. If you don't care that your WW has not told you the truth or details that you (possibly?) want to know, fine...that is your choice. If you want to stay married without this information or a poly, fine...that is your choice. Posters have told you about their own experiences and what they have seen work and not work, what is MB and what is not...yet you keep going around and around.

Have tried but OM will not answer phone nor text. His sisters (that he lives with) will not answer my attempts either.
Advise? I am unsure if it is okay with MB to sneak call from WS phone.

This is a lot of my problem.
1mo in and a messed up brain. Unsure of thoughts and ideas.
Please do understand that I hear you but struggle with myself, not posters.

Have you tried Facebook?

Only PM. No responses.
It appears to me that all WW and OM contacts are against me or hate my exposure notice.

Would it help to know that Dr. Harley's program is a very successful plan?

Follow it to your best ability and don't deviate. We will not lead you astray.

Sure its okay.
Call him and tell him to leave your wife alone if he wants to keep his k neecaps.

There is NC and I really do not wish to contact. Not to happy as he was supposed to be my friend also.

Kingsrr,

Ask your WW if you need to be tested for STD? Kissing is physical and is also dangerous since you can catch HPV that way.

And since you have 2 years minimum to recover, WW still has some time to confess, but you don't want to live with these lies when you are 10 and 20 years older.

How did your WW meet OM?

If there was no physical affair OM would not be avoiding you, OM know what the cost of being discovered by the BH and run and hide.

God Bless
Gamma