Marriage Builders
question about exposure: will exposure make OWH dump OW and push OW and WH together? Thanksl
Welcome to MB, xpbrain1.

Exposure, if done correctly, should end the affair so you can start working on fixing your marriage.

Surviving an Affair - Start here first

Have you confirmed the affair? Do you know who the OW and OWH are? How did WH and OW meet?

What have your husband's complaints in the marriage been?

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
question about exposure: will exposure make OWH dump OW and push OW and WH together? Thanksl


They are more likely to hook up together if you DON'T EXPOSE because affairs thrive on secrecy so keeping it a secret makes it more likely the OW and the WH will end up together. The longer it is kept secret, the harder it is to bust up because it becomes more entrenched.

If the WW and the WH are going to get together, they are going to get together whether you expose or not. Affairees who do not WANT to be together won't be together. All exposure does is speed things up.

What typically happens is the affair ends, either right away or very soon.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
question about exposure: will exposure make OWH dump OW and push OW and WH together? Thanksl

NOT exposing makes it more likely your WH will dump YOU for the OW. If you keep it a secret that is more likely to happen. IT is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
question about exposure: will exposure make OWH dump OW and push OW and WH together? Thanksl

It won't "make" people do anything they don't want to but it will give people the information to make informed choices.

Welcome to MB
shall i post my story here if my WH knows about this site?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i post my story here if my WH knows about this site?
Do you have good reason to think that he does know about it?

I tried to tell him the basic concepts and love buster and stuff, and sent him link about the site.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i post my story here if my WH knows about this site?
Do you have good reason to think that he does know about it?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i post my story here if my WH knows about this site?

Sure!
married 14 yrs, 2 kids, daughter 4yr, son 5months. WH had an affair when I was pregnant 06/13, with his long time friend, during an overseas trip. OW lives and remains overseas all this time. DD-11/13. Exposed immediately after DD to WH's mom and sister, and my close family member, my couple very close friends -- for the support. Tried Plan A but probably didn't do it correctly (didn't find this site until recently) that had quite some love buster during our discussions trying to have him terminate contact with OW. WH has been refused to terminate contact.

Early this week, I exposed the affair to their close friends. WH got furious, but later on expressed that hope I don't hate him that much. I think he's worried I would expose to his work place and ruin his reputation. Now I'm on the verge of Plan B. Feel exhausted and less and less love toward WH. But still wondering if I need to expose this to OW's work place. I don't know OWH because she lives overseas, and tried very hard to get her info but not much. Only knows her work phone. But since this is not work place affair, i'm not sure if i shall expose there.

so shall i expose her further? or shall go to plan b instead.
Xpbrain, I am so sorry for the reasons that brought you here. You should go into plan B and expose further. Does the OW have a Facebook page? I don't see the sense in a workplace exposure unless they are connected somehow through work or they are pastors or teachers.
OW doesn't have a FB, and searched a lot and couldn't find much info on other social media sites. They are not connected through work, but that's the only info i have (the company she work for and her work phone). i doubt ppl at her company would tell me her husband's phone no.
I have read SAA and numerous articles on the MB website. But the thing is the affair is on-going, and WH wouldn't let me meed his needs and keep emailing and msging OW, although they can't see each other. according to WH, OW's husband may know about this, and they might wanna have a divorce. I'm really devastated since my kids are so young. I'm torn if I shall expose this to my almost 4 year old.
is it recommended that I talk to OW directly?
Did your WH meet this OW while on travel for work?
How hard have you looked for her husband? Do you have her full name?
And yes, you should contact the OW and talk to her. Tell her you are married to WH and make sure she knows she is wrecking a family.
@mrEureka just travel.
@MelodyLane i have her full name and I searched very hard but nothing comes up. I guess only hire PI could really dig sth out. But it's in a different country and very difficult. everything is so stressful and i have to work and take care of the little ones. WH's mom and sister (they are very close) are trying to ask him to do the right thing, but he remains unchanged. On one side he's very nice to his mom and kids, but very cold and neglect to me.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And yes, you should contact the OW and talk to her. Tell her you are married to WH and make sure she knows she is wrecking a family.

I actually sent her emails about this and she never replies. sometimes she simply forwards the email to WH. I am a bit reluctant to talk to her on the phone, though.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
@mrEureka just travel.
@MelodyLane i have her full name and I searched very hard but nothing comes up. I guess only hire PI could really dig sth out. But it's in a different country and very difficult. everything is so stressful and i have to work and take care of the little ones.

I bet a PI could run a background check on her even though she is out of the country. Can you find her home address and phone number? Where does she live?
It is clear that no nights apart ever again will be an essential extraordinary precaution in any recovery plan you attempt.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
@mrEureka just travel.
@MelodyLane i have her full name and I searched very hard but nothing comes up. I guess only hire PI could really dig sth out. But it's in a different country and very difficult. everything is so stressful and i have to work and take care of the little ones.

I bet a PI could run a background check on her even though she is out of the country. Can you find her home address and phone number? Where does she live?

She is chinese and lives in china. We are chinese immigrants.
You should go into plan B.

Prepare for it first (meanwhile, plan A).

Get your financial ducks in a row and know who can be an intermediary for financial or visitation information. Also, craft a beautiful Plan B letter to give your WH.

Then go into plan B and begin to heal.

When you go into Plan B....send a copy of your Plan B letter to OW.

Originally Posted by reading
You should go into plan B.

Prepare for it first (meanwhile, plan A).

Get your financial ducks in a row and know who can be an intermediary for financial or visitation information. Also, craft a beautiful Plan B letter to give your WH.

Then go into plan B and begin to heal.

When you go into Plan B....send a copy of your Plan B letter to OW.

i already drafted plan b letter, got the sample from here, and modified. my mother-in-law is here helping us with the 5-month-old, and she will be the intermediary. I know it's not recommended, but we moved to this place not long ago, not too many friends close enough to fit the role.

I sent out the plan b letter just now. ask him to move out in 2 weeks if he doesn't end the affair.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by reading
You should go into plan B.

Prepare for it first (meanwhile, plan A).

Get your financial ducks in a row and know who can be an intermediary for financial or visitation information. Also, craft a beautiful Plan B letter to give your WH.

Then go into plan B and begin to heal.

When you go into Plan B....send a copy of your Plan B letter to OW.

i already drafted plan b letter, got the sample from here, and modified. my mother-in-law is here helping us with the 5-month-old, and she will be the intermediary. I know it's not recommended, but we moved to this place not long ago, not too many friends close enough to fit the role.

I sent out the plan b letter just now. ask him to move out in 2 weeks if he doesn't end the affair.

xpbrain, this is not Plan B. Plan B is when you end all contact. What you did is not Plan B. It is a good idea that you demanded he end his affair. That is a good seque to Plan B.

In the meantime you can read up on what Plan B is. Also, your MIL will make a horrible IM and you need to find someone who is neutral. Find a close friend. Anyone BUT his mother or any other relative of his.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
xpbrain, this is not Plan B. Plan B is when you end all contact. What you did is not Plan B. It is a good idea that you demanded he end his affair. That is a good seque to Plan B.

In the meantime you can read up on what Plan B is. Also, your MIL will make a horrible IM and you need to find someone who is neutral. Find a close friend. Anyone BUT his mother or any other relative of his.

I guess I just initiated plan b by sending out the letter to him. No contact between us hasn't started yet. We don't have close friends here, all the ppl we know are some sort of work related. We live an apt complex provided by WH's company, so all the neighbors are work related. I don't want to get them involved. We moved to this place simply because of his new job and we left all our long time friends behind. Other than my mother-in-law, I really can't think anybody else.
Do you have the book Survivng an Affair? I would download that book in kindle and read it so you understand how the program works. Here is a good primer on Plan B: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Do you have the book Survivng an Affair? I would download that book in kindle and read it so you understand how the program works. Here is a good primer on Plan B: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

I do have this book and read that how to plan b correctly several times. but our constraints i mentioned above limit my options.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[

I guess I just initiated plan b by sending out the letter to him. No contact between us hasn't started yet.

That is my point. Plan B is no contact at all. You haven't initiated Plan B.

Quote
We don't have close friends here, all the ppl we know are some sort of work related.

It doesn't need to be someone who lives there. It only needs to be someone who will maintain a neutral stance and agree to screen out his messages - VIA EMAIL.

I would read up on Plan B before you do it. Telling your husband he has to leave in 2 weeks if he doesn't end contact is NOT Plan B.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
It doesn't need to be someone who lives there. It only needs to be someone who will maintain a neutral stance and agree to screen out his messages - VIA EMAIL.

I would read up on Plan B before you do it. Telling your husband he has to leave in 2 weeks if he doesn't end contact is NOT Plan B.

I'll think about this more carefully.
Thank you guys for all your input! Really appreciate them.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thank you guys for all your input! Really appreciate them.

WE are here and are glad to help!! You are on the right track and you did good telling he has to end his affair.

What does his mother think about his affair? Is she telling him to shape up? Will she contact the OW and tell her to buzz off?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thank you guys for all your input! Really appreciate them.

WE are here and are glad to help!! You are on the right track and you did good telling he has to end his affair.

What does his mother think about his affair? Is she telling him to shape up? Will she contact the OW and tell her to buzz off?

Thanks. MIL wants him to terminate all contact, but she's not healthy enough (high blood pressure, etc) to get too much involved, like calling OW. MIL and sister-in-law talked to him many times. Although he loves them very much, he refused to end the affair. He blamed everything on me. and during plan a I used my actions to show i could change (my MIL acknowledged my change, better temper, more care for WH). But he still wants to have a divorce. the only thing might keep him from moving out is our kids. They are so young and needs lots of time and energy to take care of them.
You are doing the right thing getting him moved out and going into Plan B. The only problem I see is how will you keep him out if you live in company housing? You can't really keep him out. Can you move back home?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[ We live an apt complex provided by WH's company,

This will prevent you from going into Plan B. Can you move home?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[ We live an apt complex provided by WH's company,

This will prevent you from going into Plan B. Can you move home?

i think as long as he doesn't report to housing management, we could still live there. I always wanted to move to the state we lived for many years, but he wouldn't let me leave with the two kids. He loves them a lot too and won't quit his job. he simply want them all and let me suffer here.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[ We live an apt complex provided by WH's company,

This will prevent you from going into Plan B. Can you move home?

i think as long as he doesn't report to housing management, we could still live there. I always wanted to move to the state we lived for many years, but he wouldn't let me leave with the two kids. He loves them a lot too and won't quit his job. he simply want them all and let me suffer here.

The problem is that he would be able to come into your home at will. You wouldn't be able to keep him out.

Is there a reason you can't move on your own and take the kids? Do you have some family you could move in with?

Does he have a traveling job?
You must get all your stuff in line before going to Plan B.

A place to live that is not at H's control.

Funds ($) to survive on.......

an intermediary that did not give birth to the wayward.

You should also talk to a couple attorneys about your situation....that you are from another country and need to separate from your spouse and need financial support and what to do to get it.

You can do all these things if you keep working on them.

Meanwhile, consider your note to WH as not a Plan B launch, but a notice that you want his affair to end.

Then, when you are able to go to a true Plan B......give him a letter that you have posted here and had edited by those of us who are knowledgable about well written Plan B launching letters.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I always wanted to move to the state we lived for many years, but he wouldn't let me leave with the two kids.

He doesn't have a choice if you want to leave with your children...you don't need his permission. Without a pending divorce, you can go wherever you want. How long have you been in your current state? If he doesn't meet residency requirements, he can't file D.

Welcome to MB.
"find a place to live that's not at H's control" -- I have a 4yr-old and a 5-month old, tons of stuff to move. It's just too much work for me to move. I think WH won't force to come to my home if he doesn't want all his colleagues to know about his affair. He can't afford to lose his reputation at his work place.

IM -- working on it. Will find a friend who is neutral.


"he wouldn't let me leave with the two kids" -- we lived in the current state for almost 3 years. But if i move to another state with my two kids without his consent, he has the right to file motion to court to force me to come back, which might jeopardize my custody. I very very much want to move back to the state with all the support from my friends. Looking for a job there now. Please help me on this!


Financial aspect -- moved savings to my account. he's not opposed to this.

I'm a bit hesitated to reveal all my plan since he might know this forum.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
"he wouldn't let me leave with the two kids" -- we lived in the current state for almost 3 years. But if i move to another state with my two kids without his consent, he has the right to file motion to court to force me to come back, which might jeopardize my custody. I very very much want to move back to the state with all the support from my friends. Looking for a job there now. Please help me on this!

That is not usually how it works. That might be the case if there is a custody agreement in place, but there is not. If you move now, he would have to come to your state to file any motions. Typically, the spouse who is left behind is forced to move to the new state and file any actions there.

I would strongly urge you to move. I am very concerned that you think that "Plan B" is a kind of ultimatum to force the WS to do something. I assure you it is not. It won't motivate him to do anything. The purpose is to get you out of his life while his affair dies. The alternative is to hang around and develop mental, emotional and physical problems due to his abuse. It is also very unattractive to have a woman competing for him.

Plan B is supposed to emulate divorce. And I guarantee you that your H will come in that apartment if you tell him he can't come around. That is what 99.99% of waywards do. He won't like losing control of you and will just come in at will.
Thanks, Melody. I'll think about it.
There are many threads here of women with the kids; no family nearby, no support and a cheating husband that continually tries to bully them.

If you can leave and be near support you should do so.

I would consult with a lawyer and see if you can do so. You may need to file for divorce in your new state as soon as you become a resident in order to keep the case there. I would ask an attorney in the new state ASAP.
MelodyLane, you are right, I thought he wouldn't move out because it's heart-breaking to leave the kids. But obviously, I'm wrong. He even agrees I could move to another state, if I can find a job and find childcare. He's willing to discuss the financial details of divorce.

Good. Time to move forward. I need to be strong for the kids.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
MelodyLane, you are right, I thought he wouldn't move out because it's heart-breaking to leave the kids. But obviously, I'm wrong. He even agrees I could move to another state, if I can find a job and find childcare. He's willing to discuss the financial details of divorce.

Good. Time to move forward. I need to be strong for the kids.

Do not talk to him about moving out of state until you speak with an attorney.

You should plan on entering Plan B when you move.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
MelodyLane, you are right, I thought he wouldn't move out because it's heart-breaking to leave the kids. But obviously, I'm wrong. He even agrees I could move to another state, if I can find a job and find childcare. He's willing to discuss the financial details of divorce.

I would hire a mover and get moved. He does not dictate the terms of your moving. And no, you should not get a job because he needs to support you. That would be the wrong thing to do right now. Go set aside some money and find a place to live.
what attorney said is, sadly, he has the right to file to court of parental kidnapping if i move with kids to other state without his consent, even without custody agreement. then i will have to come back with kids, or go to jail.

wondering if i should leave asap before he changes his mind. but moving takes a long time, shipping our stuff and vehicle and stuff... need to find childcare ...

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
MelodyLane, you are right, I thought he wouldn't move out because it's heart-breaking to leave the kids. But obviously, I'm wrong. He even agrees I could move to another state, if I can find a job and find childcare. He's willing to discuss the financial details of divorce.

Good. Time to move forward. I need to be strong for the kids.

Do not talk to him about moving out of state until you speak with an attorney.

You should plan on entering Plan B when you move.
if i don't have a job, out-of-state health insurance for me and kids need to be applied a month in advance.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
if i don't have a job, out-of-state health insurance for me and kids need to be applied a month in advance.

Are you sickly people?
is it that only a very small percentage of WS would lift the fog by themselves? Looks like I'm out of luck.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
is it that only a very small percentage of WS would lift the fog by themselves? Looks like I'm out of luck.

The percentage would be zero.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
if i don't have a job, out-of-state health insurance for me and kids need to be applied a month in advance.

Are you sickly people?

my son is only 5-month old. daughter 4 yr old.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
if i don't have a job, out-of-state health insurance for me and kids need to be applied a month in advance.

Are you sickly people?

my son is only 5-month old. daughter 4 yr old.

Are they sickly children?

If you live in America, you can get healthcare for kids without insurance. You would be able to receive emergency treatment in any hospital in America. And if your kids get sick, you can take them to the doctor. You don't have to have insurance to get health care in America.

Are in America?
yeah, but infant/preschooler get sick a lot, esp if they go to daycare/preschool. infant need regular well check every several months. i want to find good pediatricians for my kids, not just go to ER every time they get sick.
Can you apply for medicaid?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
yeah, but infant/preschooler get sick a lot, esp if they go to daycare/preschool. infant need regular well check every several months. i want to find good pediatricians for my kids, not just go to ER every time they get sick.

But you said it takes a month to get insurance, right? If they get sick in that month, you can take them to the doctor. You don't have to have insurance to take kids to the doctor. And if there is an emergency you can take them to the ER.

AFTER you get moved you can find a good pediatrician. Not having insurance does not mean your kids won't get health care. We did not have health insurance when my kids were little and they got all the appropriate health care.
Since when do you have to have health insurance to get medical care? crazy
Thank you guys for all your input!

Is it moving to another state doing Plan B will be a better emulate of divorce? Will the distance and less chance visiting the kids make WH value our marriage more? Since WH promised he will not violate our arrangements and come to our company housing as he wishes. Staying local will provide more time for the father to visit kids. He does love them a lot, although not as much as to his lover.

well it might sound finding excuses not to move so fast, and i do fear that my WH will change mind, but
1)from the state we currently live, shipping my vehicle and household stuff takes a month. i can't really afford buy all the stuff new.
2)i haven't found a job in the state I'm moving to. I want to be independent and be able to support myself and kids.
3)even continue to use my WH's insurance coverage, applying out-of-state insurance takes a month. I don't think I qualify for medicaid.
4)daughter is in the middle of the semester. although it's only preschool, but feels like leave after the spring semester might be better for her.
5)current job needs 2-week notice to quit.
6)haven't found nanny and daycare for my kids.

i have to admit, it's a bit intimidating taking care of two very young kids on my own from now on. the WH did all this to me.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
is it that only a very small percentage of WS would lift the fog by themselves? Looks like I'm out of luck.

The percentage would be zero.

so is it taking Plan B to wait for the A to die naturally? and i should prepare for a divorce?
I think you will qualify for medicaid.
You can go to their website and do a quick checklist and see.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thank you guys for all your input!

Is it moving to another state doing Plan B will be a better emulate of divorce? Will the distance and less chance visiting the kids make WH value our marriage more? Since WH promised he will not violate our arrangements and come to our company housing as he wishes. Staying local will provide more time for the father to visit kids. He does love them a lot, although not as much as to his lover.

The purpose of moving to another state is so you have family support. It is to help your emotional and physical health. John McCain didn't like being in a Vietnamese prison as a POW and wanted to go back to the USA because he didn't like the daily torture.

Do you enjoy this hell? It will ruin your health. There are many spouses on MB TRAPPED in states with NO family support after their husbands abandoned the family. Once it enters the local court system, they cant leave! Don't join their club, it's not a joyous bunch.

CALL a lawyer today in the other state, tell him/her that you want to move there and file for divorce there. The atty can give you guidance.

I speak from experience....my wife abandoned the family and I am now 2,000 miles away from family...raising 3 kids with NO family support system.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
so is it taking Plan B to wait for the A to die naturally? and i should prepare for a divorce?

The purpose of Plan B is to protect your physical and emotional health. Dr. Harley states that a woman can develop serious emotional and physical disorders if she does not isolate herself from a cheating husband.

You should prepare for divorce in the following manner: Contact an attorney in the other state and tell him you want to live near family and file for divorce there. Filing for divorce does not mean that you will actually get divorced but it protects your legal rights.
Have you read these?
How to Plan B Correctly
What are Plan A and Plan B?
Thanks Jedi_Knight for your advice. I will call the attorneys at other state for more details.

@BrainHurts Yeah, I had read those two articles, but obviously I didn't really understand "plan b" by then. Now I think i have a better understanding.
What state would you like to move to? You can easily find the divorce/separation laws and residency requirements online.

If your WH is so worried about money, he would be stupid to drop you and/or the children off his insurance...since you are still married HE would also be liable for any medical debt so don't think he gets off from joint liabilites...nothing has been filed.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
what attorney said is, sadly, he has the right to file to court of parental kidnapping if i move with kids to other state without his consent, even without custody agreement. then i will have to come back with kids, or go to jail.

What state is this? I have never heard of that unless there is a pending legal action or issued legal order. You can ck this info for accuracy online as well. I would NOT bring up all the various issues with him...don't show your hand.

I suggest you email him at work and ask him if he is still open to you moving to state X with the children since he wants a D. Get him to respond to you in writing that he is ok with you moving. At least you will have that in writing...that you spoke to him and he agreed (don't get too bogged down with all sorts of contingencies).

Sample:

WH, you said you were open to me moving to StateX with the kids since you want a divorce. I am going to start looking for a job there so please confirm that you are still in agreement of me moving there with the kids. I don't want to waste anyone's time if you aren't. Thanks.

BW

ETA: If he responds with what he told you before...yeah sure if you have a job and child care...then you have a good case for not coming back if he later files as there is no mention of child custody/visitation etc. I would give it a try.
Or you may consider filing for separation in your current state and you could include in there that it is agreed you will move to state x with the children. You would have to do some research to see what teeth such an agreement would have. Then when you move you can file D after meeting residency requirements. But you may have to deal with no support for that time period to establish residency. Just thinking...
xp,

Is WH's father in the picture?
@black_raven Thanks for your suggestion. It's HI to CA. Sent out the agreement of moving w/ kids letter. no response yet, not sure if he would want to put it in writing. it's a torture for him too to leave the kids.

WH's father passed away more than 10 years ago.
You're welcome.

I was going to suggest packing up your vehicle and driving but that ain't gonna work lol. SInce you would be separated by an ocean...that could be a good thing. CA has a six month residency for filing divorce and you have to live in the same county for three. However, you can file for separation immediately.

This is for SF county but gives you some info:
http://www.sfsuperiorcourt.org/self-help/legal-separation

I'm guessing shipping costs would be very high. Other than shipping your car (if it makes sense to do so), you may not want to take much and just go ASAP. I moved several times across the country and left/sold what didn't make sense to take.
Maybe WH will wake up when you are in Plan B but you need to do what is best for you and your children if he continues to be a wayward. I lived in SoCal most of my life. If you have questions that you don't want to post on the Forum, feel free to click the notify button below and ask the moderator for my email address.
Thank you so much, black_raven!
Dont worry about the car and everything else.
You can get furniture at thrift stores if you need to.
Family support is important if you end up being a single parent.

Please do NOT state that WH cares about the kids...because if he cared about them he would not selfishly break up the family so he could have sex with another woman.
You can buy new stuff.

Nothing is more valuable than yours and your children being surrounded by love and support.

Do the people in CA know what is happening in your marriage and want to be your emotional support system?
Jedi_Knight and reading, i don't have any relatives in the states, the WH (used to be)and kids are my family. what WH said to the MC was, he felt too much responsibility and stress being my only closest person in the world. But in CA i have many friends who would support me. now only a couple of very close friends know about it.

i just cannot believe all these. he's willing to leave the kids, given they are so little. i'd never thought he could be this kind of person. but the reality is my two friends in CA had WH cheated on them, and divorced, and never got reconciled. The ironic thing is WH's sister got cheated by her husband, and divorced. Back then, my WH was so angry and even wanted to beat the shxx out of ex-BIL. but now, he got tons of reason to justify his behavior.

not too many successfully reconciled cases I know. maybe it's just that not everyone will have a happy ending.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
the reality is my two friends in CA had WH cheated on them, and divorced, and never got reconciled. . maybe it's just that not everyone will have a happy ending.


Let me guess. They did all of the following.

a) Stayed in full contact with their wayward spouses. Continued meeting all their required needs, like Family Commitment.
b) The WS behaved horribly to them, financially and emotionally cruel
c) Whenever the waywards had a relationship problem they picked on the betrayed spouse. She was the punchbag.
d) After a few years the BS despised the wayward so much she would never reconcile. The BS was such a wreck by this point she wasnt attractive to the WS either.

This is why most people don't reconcile. Plan B protects this from happening. Even if you don't ever reconcile it is important to escape the emotional abuse heading your way.

95 per cent of affairs end in two years if the BS just gets out of the way and allows them to have fights with each other instead of always with her.


Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Back then, my WH was so angry and even wanted to beat the shxx out of ex-BIL. but now, he got tons of reason to justify his behavior.

.


This describes most waywards. The person most at risk of an affair is the person who thinks only demonic, disgusting people have them and that they would never do such a thing.

The person safest from having an affair are the ones who know it is quite natural to develop feelings of intense love for close friends over time. So you maybe shouldnt become very close with people of the opposite sex!

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Jedi_Knight and reading, i don't have any relatives in the states, the WH (used to be)and kids are my family.

You dont have family?
why do you want to move out of state then?

You need to make sure this is a rational move.
Will you have income?
Do you have a job now?
Hi, I suppose this is my dilemma. Leave her to it and let her and the OM self destruct or plan A and actively compete with the OM but at the same time be used as a punchbag for all my WS problems. Hard to know which is more likely to succeed. I have plan A for about 3 months so far.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
You dont have family?
why do you want to move out of state then?

You need to make sure this is a rational move.
Will you have income?
Do you have a job now?

My friends are like my family. they can give me the emotional support that I need. Also, I'm thinking about asking a relative for help for the initial several months after we move to CA. Otherwise I'll hire a nanny.

I have a job at the current state now. I'm looking for jobs in CA.
Plan A:

exposed to WH's family, several his close friends, my family, some of my close friends, 3-4 WH and OM's close mutual friends.

Unless i hire PI in China, I cant find out OM's H or family's contact info. Friends at current state are H's colleagues. Haven't told H and my mutual friends in CA. wondering if i need to expose to these ppl.

Affair on-going, WH wont let me meet his needs (staying with me only meet the domestic support and family commitment needs). we don't even talk much now. We are already very busy with work and taking care of the two very young kids. when he's nice to the kids, I thought he won't leave us. but it turned out he thought even divorced, kids could still carry on a good life. Now, I don't have much love to him either.

one positive point of keep doing plan A is one more manpower to take care of the 5-mon old an 4yr old. baby still wakes up several time a night, sometimes both ones.


Plan B

option 1:

i can stay in the current state. H previously said he doesn't want to waste our money to move to another apt. He would just stay in his office over night (prob. he's just waiting for me to say oh it's too much, you can just stay home). I guess that's not conforming to plan b. I could insist him to rent a apt for himself.

So the kids could see father more often. I could have MIL readily help me with the kids. less change for kids.

Another thing is i don't know when OM will move here. WH said OM is divorcing her H. Not sure if it's true. But WH dosn't want me to contact OM's H, said it will just make us divorce faster. But isn't that what he always wanted?

option 2:

I move to another state. HI to CA, a lot of work, but I would have my friends' support. I definitely would be happier since I always wanted to move back. But I need to find a job first, shouldn't be too difficult, but still might take several months. Not sure if i should move there without a job. I need to find a nanny, or i need to apply visa for my relative to come here to help me. Need to find daycare for my daughter.

kids less time to see father. WH will suffer / miss us more, I suppose? distance might create problems for our already dying marriage, but it will also create problems for WH and OM, I hope.

So what should i do now? please help! thanks a lot!
would it make any difference if i ask WH to read the book SAA?
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Let me guess. They did all of the following.

a) Stayed in full contact with their wayward spouses. Continued meeting all their required needs, like Family Commitment.
b) The WS behaved horribly to them, financially and emotionally cruel
c) Whenever the waywards had a relationship problem they picked on the betrayed spouse. She was the punchbag.
d) After a few years the BS despised the wayward so much she would never reconcile. The BS was such a wreck by this point she wasnt attractive to the WS either.

This is why most people don't reconcile. Plan B protects this from happening. Even if you don't ever reconcile it is important to escape the emotional abuse heading your way.

95 per cent of affairs end in two years if the BS just gets out of the way and allows them to have fights with each other instead of always with her.

Thanks, indiegirl. I guess i should get out of the way. but the thing is i don't even know when OM will move to the states and start their fights...
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
what WH said to the MC was, he felt too much responsibility and stress being my only closest person in the world.


This is exactly what my XH used to say quite overlooking that that is the deal in marraige!

People who say this want to do their own thing and they want you to find other stuff to make you happy - they sure don't want the job. They don't want a marriage they want a woman on the back burner.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
he doesn't want to waste our money to move to another apt. He would just stay in his office over night (prob. he's just waiting for me to say oh it's too much, you can just stay home). I guess that's not conforming to plan b. I could insist him to rent a apt for himself.


It's not your problem where he stays. Out he goes and he can figure it out like a big boy. Pack his bags and think no more about it. In Plan B you don't meet your spouses needs like providing affection or care - you let them fall victim to their own choices.

If he wants to have an affair OF COURSE he is going to need a new place. Boo hoo that it costs money. What he wants is the all-time fantasy of being allowed to do it from his family home.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Let me guess. They did all of the following.

a) Stayed in full contact with their wayward spouses. Continued meeting all their required needs, like Family Commitment.
b) The WS behaved horribly to them, financially and emotionally cruel
c) Whenever the waywards had a relationship problem they picked on the betrayed spouse. She was the punchbag.
d) After a few years the BS despised the wayward so much she would never reconcile. The BS was such a wreck by this point she wasnt attractive to the WS either.

This is why most people don't reconcile. Plan B protects this from happening. Even if you don't ever reconcile it is important to escape the emotional abuse heading your way.

95 per cent of affairs end in two years if the BS just gets out of the way and allows them to have fights with each other instead of always with her.

Thanks, indiegirl. I guess i should get out of the way. but the thing is i don't even know when OM will move to the states and start their fights...


Another thing that is not your problem!!

He will very quickly realise that you are gone and he has this girl on is hands full time now.

This girl is like candy and you are like nourishing food. Your WH wants you to amuse yourself while he gets a hit of candy and then when he is beginnning to get a bit sick of the the sugar he will say to candy-girl: "uh oh I better go appease that nasty wife of mine". So he gets a good feed of nourishment from you until he is ready for more candy.

Once you are out of the way he won't be able to hold her off any more. There won't be any reason to not join her in the relationship she wants.

Then all he will have is candy. All the time. Till he is sick of it.

That's why they dont last.

i briefly summarized the 3 options I'm considering above: plan a, plan b option 1, and plan b option 2. Would anyone here please give me some suggestions what to do next? Thanks a lot!
seems like my question is being ignored. is it you guys think I already got the answer but still keep asking the same question?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Plan A:

exposed to WH's family, several his close friends, my family, some of my close friends, 3-4 WH and OM's close mutual friends.

Unless i hire PI in China, I cant find out OM's H or family's contact info. Friends at current state are H's colleagues. Haven't told H and my mutual friends in CA. wondering if i need to expose to these ppl.

I would hire a PI and get the OW's husbands contact information. Go into Plan B immediately and start making arrangements to move back to California where you will be away from your H and his OW and close to supportive friends.

Plan A is only supposed to last 3-4 weeks so you are done with that. I would go into a true Plan B asap while you make arrangements to move away.

Plan A means you commit to meeting his needs in the future *IF* he ends his affair. It is not realistic to believe you can meets his needs now. Nor does it make any difference since he is emotionally invested elsewhere.

If you move away to California, you can tell him that if he ends his affair and commits to the MB program, he can follow you to California.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Another thing is i don't know when OM will move here. WH said OM is divorcing her H. Not sure if it's true. But WH dosn't want me to contact OM's H, said it will just make us divorce faster.

MrRollieEyes Translation: it will just ruin his affair faster.

Will your MIL reach out to this skank and try to run her off?
Thanks, MelodyLane. Sometimes i feel like i need some push. I'll work on the PI this afternoon. Will make arrangements for plan b.

One thing to add, i also exposed to my almost 4yr daughter. I told her daddy won't be able to live with us because he loves another woman and it's a wrong thing to do. She almost cried and when she got home saw WH, she just kept repeating "Daddy stop loving that woman"! WH doesn't react much. I'm not sure how much DD understands about this, but she seems to forget about it pretty soon. I don't want to press her too much. She's just a baby.

As to my MIL, she and sister-in-law don't want to get involved too much, and I don't think MIL wants to confront OM. But I'll check with her anyway.
i just called that OM, talking about my kids are so young and that... she didn't even show one bit of regret. then i threat to email her bosses and tell them the affair. one minute later she sent email that she would end relationship with WH. should i believe her?
now my dear husband is sending me msg asking me don't send those emails... the posom and wh don't have the slightest moral standard and never gave a shxx of my kids' life! her tone of talking to me is so condescending and it's like a slap on my face that it's my fault my WH is cheating on me while im pregnant. i'm so furious about my WH!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
now my dear husband is sending me msg asking me don't send those emails... the posom and wh don't have the slightest moral standard and never gave a shxx of my kids' life! her tone of talking to me is so condescending and it's like a slap on my face that it's my fault my WH is cheating on me while im pregnant. i'm so furious about my WH!

You really need to expose at work.
i've been sending emails to this posow and wh from nov last year. talked to them nicely and asking them to stop and my baby was only one month old! they dont [censored] care! now she's keeping sending me msg asking not to ruin her career... now she cares! it's like the end of my world to me, but to her, prob. just fuxxx another man and have some fun. how convenient!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
i've been sending emails to this posow and wh from nov last year. talked to them nicely and asking them to stop and my baby was only one month old! they dont [censored] care! now she's keeping sending me msg asking not to ruin her career... now she cares! it's like the end of my world to me, but to her, prob. just fuxxx another man and have some fun. how convenient!

EXPOSE her at work. Expose the affair at work.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
i've been sending emails to this posow and wh from nov last year. talked to them nicely and asking them to stop and my baby was only one month old! they dont [censored] care! now she's keeping sending me msg asking not to ruin her career... now she cares! it's like the end of my world to me, but to her, prob. just fuxxx another man and have some fun. how convenient!

EXPOSE her at work. Expose the affair at work.

I did.
Good job on the exposure; Did you expose to company officers (CEO, President)?
A great exposure website is www.cheaterville.com.
I encourage you to expose there too
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Good job on the exposure; Did you expose to company officers (CEO, President)?
A great exposure website is www.cheaterville.com.
I encourage you to expose there too

Yeah, I exposed to a couple of VPs, and some managers.
How are your Plan B preps coming on?
WH wanted to proceed to divorce coz he thought there are way too much damage to our marriage to reconcile. My MIL supports him on that. According to him, OW is blaming him that his leaking of her contact info led to the exposure of the A at her work place. If they are not breaking up yet, at least they are having fights.

We discussed some child visitation plan and financial plan today. As to Plan B, before i found a job in CA, I would still stay in the current state and he will move out. But I have some difficulty dropping off my DD to daycare in the morning, due to my work schedule. WH wants to help me on that. But then he would be able to see the kids everyday, just not spend the night at home. I don't think it would be that much like a divorce. In addition, he would be able to pick up kids and spend the evening 2 days at weekday, and one full day till 9pm at weekend. During the day, since my MIL is living with us, he would be able to come home as he wants, but I won't be present. I know that's not a good plan b, but for my situation, I think that's the best i can come up with right now.

i'm working very hard to find a job in CA. then i can move over there and do a true Plan B. we'll have a friend as IM there.

So, before I move to CA, shall I do a not-so-perfect Plan B or still plan A? Although WH insist on D, he's kinda nice to me, probably because he doesn't want me and the kids to hate him.
xpbrain, it needs to be set up so he can't come in the house. That is the point of Plan B, to show him what it will be like if he is divorced. He will need to pick up the kids and take them elsewhere for his visits. That is ok if your MIL gives him the kids at the door, but he should never be in your home. You don't want him hanging around because defeats the whole purpose.

Your friend in California can be your IM now because an IM does her work via email.

Quote
But I have some difficulty dropping off my DD to daycare in the morning, due to my work schedule. WH wants to help me on that.

Can't you find another way to do this? How will this trade off take place? How old is this child?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
WH wanted to proceed to divorce coz he thought there are way too much damage to our marriage to reconcile. My MIL supports him on that. According to him, OW is blaming him that his leaking of her contact info led to the exposure of the A at her work place. If they are not breaking up yet, at least they are having fights.

Naw, he is just ticked off that you exposed the affair at work and saying this to punish you. Let him know that yes, this will lead to divorce if he doesn't end his affair with skanky.

You really need to get ahold of her husband. That might kill this immediately.
Do you have a picture of her? Does she have a facebook page?
DD 4 yr old. DS 5 month old.

so the current plan wont' work. i really do need someone to help me on taking care of both kids besides the nanny and daycare hour. DS still wakes up several times at night. after paying daycare (for DD, 8am - 5pm) and nanny (for DS, 8:30am - 4:30pm)for both kids, we can't really afford to find other helper. I can figure sth. out for the drop-off and pick-up. but need to talk to WH about not come to home AT ALL.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Do you have a picture of her? Does she have a facebook page?

i have a picture. and she does not have facebook page. She's in China. I'll hire a PI to get her husband's phone no.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Do you have a picture of her? Does she have a facebook page?

i have a picture. and she does not have facebook page. She's in China. I'll hire a PI to get her husband's phone no.

I would post your story along with her picture on shesahomewrecker.com and cheaterville.com and then send her the links. She will GO CRAZY. grin Talk about causing pure chaos in the affair, THAT WILL DO IT!

Have you looked on those sites?
But she's in China, not sure how much she cared about those sites.

Any legal ramifications on posting her pic there?

Thanks a lot for your reply, Melody!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
But she's in China, not sure how much she cared about those sites.

WE will see!! You can post her photo, send her the link and tell her you will be sharing this website with many, many others!! grin

Quote
Any legal ramifications on posting her pic there?

Nope!! In America you have free speech rights.

Quote
Thanks a lot for your reply, Melody!

You are very welcome, my friend! smile
These cheater sites have been featured on major news stations in the US. They are very popular!
Not sure if I understand it correctly, is it that NC needs to be come from my WH? if i threaten to post her pic on those cheater sites, and she agrees to terminate contact unilaterally? then WH wouldn't have a choice but break up the A. would this be considered NC?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Not sure if I understand it correctly, is it that NC needs to be come from my WH? if i threaten to post her pic on those cheater sites, and she agrees to terminate contact unilaterally? then WH wouldn't have a choice but break up the A. would this be considered NC?

No, they will TELL you they have broken up and then go further underground with their affair. It is NEVER a good idea to use a threat in an affair because you are only giving your battle plan to the enemy and they learn to be more clever.

She is not ashamed of her affair so why should you hesitate for one second to announce the good news?
Putting her photo on those websites may scare her off. If she believes you are going to make her life hell, she may back off. That is what you want.

Threatening to do it will work against you. You should never make a deal with liars and cheaters. You should SURPRISE them and keep them off balance.
I see. Thanks. can i take her pic off later if they do break up?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
her tone of talking to me is so condescending and it's like a slap on my face that it's my fault my WH is cheating on me while im pregnant.

She is not ashamed of the affair. All you are doing is helping her spread the word of her affair with a married man. smile
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
WH wanted to proceed to divorce coz he thought there are way too much damage to our marriage to reconcile. My MIL supports him on that. According to him, OW is blaming him that his leaking of her contact info led to the exposure of the A at her work place. If they are not breaking up yet, at least they are having fights.

Well done you!

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
We discussed some child visitation plan and financial plan today. As to Plan B, before i found a job in CA, I would still stay in the current state and he will move out. But I have some difficulty dropping off my DD to daycare in the morning, due to my work schedule. WH wants to help me on that. But then he would be able to see the kids everyday, just not spend the night at home. I don't think it would be that much like a divorce. .


The wayward fantasy is to have OW candy and wholesome family life too. It will kill you, don't do it! Don't 'discuss' his desire for a buddy divorce at all. You say, he does.



Originally Posted by xpbrain1
During the day, since my MIL is living with us, he would be able to come home as he wants, but I won't be present. I know that's not a good plan b, but for my situation, I think that's the best i can come up with right now.

That is a dreadful idea. It keeps you as his poor put-upon wife without any care for life. Make your own NEW life - without your MiL!

Good heavens he can't keep his mother with you...Dropping by as though nothing is wrong.

She needs to go unless she can agree to not speak of him or let him in. And how can she do that?



Originally Posted by xpbrain1
So, before I move to CA, shall I do a not-so-perfect Plan B or still plan A? Although WH insist on D, he's kinda nice to me, probably because he doesn't want me and the kids to hate him.


You'll be ready for the nuthouse in just a few weeks of this crazy plan.

a few updates:

1) had scheduled counseling today to discuss separation/divorce details. WH is still pressing on getting a QUICK divorce. He's not opposed to my moving to CA with kids, as long as he got certain amount of time visiting them. He did state he "hates" me that I exposed the A, and he is very sad and disappointed the OW wanted to end things after I exposed her at her work place.

2) OW sent me an email just now, that it was me being extreme in exposing them and my actions that drove my WH further away then lead to divorce. if i tread him nicely i should have been able to win him back. she also threatened to let my employer know if i contact her again. the funny thing is my work and WH's work are sort of related and it's a small community here. my boss knows WH, and WH's colleagues. I'm curious how my WH would feel about OW's threaten. So shall I wait for this email to cause trouble b/t them or carry on my own agenda by posing on cheater websites?

3) about plan b. I told WH that he could not come to my apt again after he moves out. for now, it's very difficult for me to take care of both kids alone esp at night, while i have to work. my MIL might be able to not talk about him at home and not let him into our apt. i'll speed up my job-hunting in CA and relocation to CA will serve better in plan b.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
a few updates:

1) had scheduled counseling today to discuss separation/divorce details. WH is still pressing on getting a QUICK divorce. He's not opposed to my moving to CA with kids, as long as he got certain amount of time visiting them. He did state he "hates" me that I exposed the A, and he is very sad and disappointed the OW wanted to end things after I exposed her at her work place.

Don't cooperate and don't go to any counseling with him. He is tru8ing to get you to cooperate with the destruction of your marriage. Don't do that. Just make arrangements to get moved. Tell him no thanks to counseling.

Quote
2) OW sent me an email just now, that it was me being extreme in exposing them and my actions that drove my WH further away then lead to divorce. if i tread him nicely i should have been able to win him back. she also threatened to let my employer know if i contact her again. the funny thing is my work and WH's work are sort of related and it's a small community here. my boss knows WH, and WH's colleagues. I'm curious how my WH would feel about OW's threaten. So shall I wait for this email to cause trouble b/t them or carry on my own agenda by posing on cheater websites?

Go and submit the OW's picture along with the story of her cheating to the cheater websites. It will take a few days for them to post your story. When it does post, send her a link and forward it to as many people as you can, especially her coworkers.

When you send her the link to the story, just say, "I have forwarded this link to your story to hundreds of people in your company. I am just spreading the good news on your behalf. Best of luck... "

In the meantime, forward her email to your husband TONIGHT and just say, "you might want to handle this before she calls my boss and tells about your affair. I don't care if my boss knows, but you may."

Quote
3) about plan b. I told WH that he could not come to my apt again after he moves out. for now, it's very difficult for me to take care of both kids alone esp at night, while i have to work. my MIL might be able to not talk about him at home and not let him into our apt. i'll speed up my job-hunting in CA and relocation to CA will serve better in plan b.

Good idea. I would get moving as soon as you can.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
2) OW sent me an email just now, that it was me being extreme in exposing them and my actions that drove my WH further away then lead to divorce. if i tread him nicely i should have been able to win him back. she also threatened to let my employer know if i contact her again. the funny thing is my work and WH's work are sort of related and it's a small community here. my boss knows WH, and WH's colleagues. .


All OW do this. They are a strange bunch. They are pro marriage wreckers but never feel this makes them unqualified to give marital advice.

What exactly is she going to tell your boss? That she's a homewrecker?

Good luck lady!

Mistresses know they are cheap knock offs. They are desperate for the wife's attention, anger and despair to show them they are worth noticing by a proper woman. Don't give her your anger, just shrug and let her know exposure is happening.

I'd follow ML's advice to the letter.



thanks Melody and indiegirl for your advices. I'll follow them.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I see. Thanks. can i take her pic off later if they do break up?

I suggest you stop worrying about protecting her and instead focus on fighting to kill this affair
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Go and submit the OW's picture along with the story of her cheating to the cheater websites. It will take a few days for them to post your story. When it does post, send her a link and forward it to as many people as you can, especially her coworkers.

When you send her the link to the story, just say, "I have forwarded this link to your story to hundreds of people in your company. I am just spreading the good news on your behalf. Best of luck... "

Cheaterville normally posts within 12 hours. They also have a link to anonymously email the exposed report from Cheaterville.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
[

Cheaterville normally posts within 12 hours. They also have a link to anonymously email the exposed report from Cheaterville.

That's great! I wasn't aware of this!

hi guys, i just wanna know in advance of any possible consequences that i post OW's info on cheater websites. I already posted info, waiting for approval. Only facts posted. I have two kids, and custody issues i'm concerned. So i want to know what i'm doing here.

Questions:

1) Is it only OW could sue me if she wants to? Because she's not in the states, could my WH or her other friend here help her sue me? I'm just asking, and i know she might not likely have the guts to sue me, but just to cover bases.

2) what will i be facing if she sues me? i only post facts. then i guess she could apply for restraining order, court order to remove the post, fines, anything else?

3) if it goes to court, is it all the party involved need to testify, including me? just want to know.

4) anything else i need to be careful about?

Thanks a lot for all your help!
Only the OW could try to sue you. But in the US, the truth is a defense to slander, libel. If the story is true, she has no grounds for a lawsuit. You should be aware that almost ALL waywards threaten to sue when you expose them but I have never seen one follow through. The reason is because THEY have more to lose if such a case ever got to court because you would be able to subpeona their emails and other private corresponce. This would all become a record in the court of law. It would INCREASE the exposure of their affair and they don't want that.
What could she sue you for? Certainly not defamation, slander, or libel. Even if she tried, the truth is a defense. You didn't lie. She only calls attention to herself by going that route. I say let her. Better for your cause. If she DOES try to sue (because anybody can file a lawsuit) you could try and countersue (not likely that you would win either though).

If she does, she'll have to prove her case. She doesn't have a case.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
1) Is it only OW could sue me if she wants to? Because she's not in the states, could my WH or her other friend here help her sue me? I'm just asking, and i know she might not likely have the guts to sue me, but just to cover bases.

What could she sue you for? There is no law against telling the truth or even opinions of others.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
2) what will i be facing if she sues me? i only post facts. then i guess she could apply for restraining order, court order to remove the post, fines, anything else?

Again, have you done anything illegal? Did you threaten to kill her? Because if you did that would justify a restraining order. Did you expose her affair? That's called telling the truth.

Have you watched the TV Show Cheaters? They expose affairs all the time. In fact, some newspapers specialize in just exposing affairs. If it was illegal than they would all be imprisoned.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
3) if it goes to court, is it all the party involved need to testify, including me? just want to know.

If exposing affairs was illegal, then wouldn't President Clinton have ordered Linda Tripp to be imprisoned for exposing his affair with Monica Lewinski? Think about that: If the President of the USA, or a high ranking military General can't stop affair exposure then why on earth do you suspect that somebody 10,000 miles away in a foreign country will fly here, file a lawsuit against you and have you prosecuted for telling the truth?

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
4) anything else i need to be careful about?

Thanks a lot for all your help!

I think you need to focus on not being so afraid of telling the truth and exposing bad behavior.
If that hoe threatens to sue you, I would encourage her to do so!

OW: I am going to sue you for putting that on the internet!!

xpbrain: I would encourage you to do so because we could get all your emails, phone records and private correspondence subpoenaed into court. In the US the truth is a defense to libel. I would be delighted to get the truth out in the open in a court of law in the US and made a matter of record.
If you really want to rile her feathers, write a letter to her family members, especially the older ones (in Chinese...have a student do it for you):

I wish to inform you that XXXXX has been having sleeping in her bed with my husband.
She dishonors my family and shows disrespect to my marriage.
I told everyone I know about this and they ask me, "Are all women in China like this?"
I answer, "I do not know. But she brings great shame and dishonor to her family and people."
I have posted her picture on Cheaterville. You can read about her here: (web address).

---------

If she is from a rural area, send a copy of it to the local government official also....and a few neighbors.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
If you really want to rile her feathers, write a letter to her family members, especially the older ones (in Chinese...have a student do it for you):

I wish to inform you that XXXXX has been having sleeping in her bed with my husband.
She dishonors my family and shows disrespect to my marriage.
I told everyone I know about this and they ask me, "Are all women in China like this?"
I answer, "I do not know. But she brings great shame and dishonor to her family and people."
I have posted her picture on Cheaterville. You can read about her here: (web address).

---------

If she is from a rural area, send a copy of it to the local government official also....and a few neighbors.

rotflmao rotflmao I just spewed Pepsi all over my screen!! rotflmao
thank you guys! i only stated facts, no threatening to kill her or anything stupid. but description of my post at cheaterville got deleted during approval process. Probably because i also translated the description into Chinese for them to read. also might because i stated which city she lives in right now.
Good job xp!!!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
thank you guys! i only stated facts, no threatening to kill her or anything stupid. but description of my post at cheaterville got deleted during approval process. Probably because i also translated the description into Chinese for them to read. also might because i stated which city she lives in right now.

They usually let you post cities.
My post was initially deleted too; I think most people have to submit a couple times before its approved.
so make it invisible and submit a new one?
i know this is my best chance of kill the affair right now. if this A drags on, neither WH or I would have any love to each other. Now I think we have each other, esp my WH wishes to divorce me asap, not even care about the kids anymore. but after go through all these, like posting on the internet, which might seem very extreme to others, will it make WH get scared of me and never want to reconcile? I know A will ruin marriage, not exposing it. but just WH's reaction right now gives me little hope.
I think i saw your post on Cheaterville but it says she lives in Hawaii? I thought she was in China?

Is that your post? a picture of her with the heading "she slept with my husband when I was pregnant"?

yeah, that's the one. they deleted my description.

there is no choice of china, other than us, canada, uk and another country.
xpbrain, when they post it on the 2nd site, I would start emailing the links around to the OW, your H and as many contacts of the OW as possible.
sent OW and contacts the link. she's like i already give up why r u still doing all this out of hate and revenge? your husband will get crazy because of what you did, and you guys can never get reconciled. she's still worry so much about my WH and my relationship....

feel exhausted.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
sent OW and contacts the link. she's like i already give up why r u still doing all this out of hate and revenge? your husband will get crazy because of what you did, and you guys can never get reconciled. she's still worry so much about my WH and my relationship....

rotflmao
The homewrecker is just sooo "concerned" about your marriage! rotflmao
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The homewrecker is just sooo "concerned" about your marriage! rotflmao
Right?

She's so worried exposure is going to make your WH crazy? Waywards aren't very smart are they?
she's like sending me msg off the hook. now i'm going to block her number. gosh... she kept on giving me advice... asking me to calm down...
is she stupid or what? i wrote very clear that they need to terminate all sorts of contact.. but she's like couldn't read. just going on and on about my attitude and actions and stuff.. shall i remind her what to do again?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
she's like sending me msg off the hook. now i'm going to block her number. gosh... she kept on giving me advice... asking me to calm down...

Send her this message: "just wait to see what is coming next, hehehehee"
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Send her this message: "just wait to see what is coming next, hehehehee"

this is so stressful! just hate to go home to see the WH...
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Send her this message: "just wait to see what is coming next, hehehehee"

this is so stressful! just hate to go home to see the WH...
Just be really up beat and KNOW that you did nothing wrong. You are doing everything to fight for your marriage.

If he goes off on a tirade look at him and say "you did what you did to fight for your marriage. I will not have 3 people in my marriage". Then look him straight in the eye and say "boy I'm really looking forward to a nice glass of ice water. Would you like something to drink?"

Then walk off whistling like you don't have a care in the world.

Plan A, my dear friend.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Send her this message: "just wait to see what is coming next, hehehehee"

this is so stressful! just hate to go home to see the WH...

I thought he was gone? xpbrain, if he is there, just go home and hold your head up proudly. If he KNOWS about this posting on cheaterville, that means HE IS STILL IN CONTACT WITH THE OW.

If he says anything to you just hold your head up and say "apparently you are still in touch with the OW or you wouldn't know this. Since you are still in contact with skanky you can give her a message for me: "there is more to come!!""

Don't let him stress you. You have done nothing wrong.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Send her this message: "just wait to see what is coming next, hehehehee"

this is so stressful! just hate to go home to see the WH...

I thought he was gone? xpbrain, if he is there, just go home and hold your head up proudly. If he KNOWS about this posting on cheaterville, that means HE IS STILL IN CONTACT WITH THE OW.

If he says anything to you just hold your head up and say "apparently you are still in touch with the OW or you wouldn't know this. Since you are still in contact with skanky you can give her a message for me: "there is more to come!!""

Don't let him stress you. You have done nothing wrong.
And this^^^^
errr... i CCed him the post... he's not out yet... thanks guys for your support!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
errr... i CCed him the post... he's not out yet... thanks guys for your support!
So is he leaving?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
errr... i CCed him the post... he's not out yet... thanks guys for your support!

I gotcha!! Has he called you about the post yet? Please don't let him scare you, my friend. You have done nothing wrong.

hugs for you hug
thanks guys. i previously asked him to move out before 3/31, but then i told him he could no longer go back to our apt after he moves out. i guess it takes some time to find an apt. he's now pretty mad, depressed, wants a quick divorce. that posow probably is complaining to him right now. she even msged me that she hates us so much that we ruined her life. WH didn't contact me.

really fed up with all these crap...
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
he's now pretty mad, depressed, wants a quick divorce. that posow probably is complaining to him right now. she even msged me that she hates us so much that we ruined her life. WH didn't contact me.

Sounds like things are not going well in affairland?? grin

Do you see the huge blow you have inflicted on the affair? Now they are whining and crying to each other. No more funsies!!
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Sounds like things are not going well in affairland?? grin

Do you see the huge blow you have inflicted on the affair? Now they are whining and crying to each other. No more funsies!!

yeah, i did realize that. actually i was in pretty good mood yesterday morning, thinking i'm very close to kill the affair. But then in the counseling session with my WH, he was sooo eager to get a divorce, basically he's like agree on everything just to get rid of me... i'm not sure he will ever want to reconcile. he never did up to now.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Sounds like things are not going well in affairland?? grin

Do you see the huge blow you have inflicted on the affair? Now they are whining and crying to each other. No more funsies!!

yeah, i did realize that. actually i was in pretty good mood yesterday morning, thinking i'm very close to kill the affair. But then in the counseling session with my WH, he was sooo eager to get a divorce, basically he's like agree on everything just to get rid of me... i'm not sure he will ever want to reconcile. he never did up to now.
That's because he's a fogged out wayward right now. I would drop the counseling.

It does no good to go counselling with a fogged out wayward.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Sounds like things are not going well in affairland?? grin

Do you see the huge blow you have inflicted on the affair? Now they are whining and crying to each other. No more funsies!!

yeah, i did realize that. actually i was in pretty good mood yesterday morning, thinking i'm very close to kill the affair. But then in the counseling session with my WH, he was sooo eager to get a divorce, basically he's like agree on everything just to get rid of me... i'm not sure he will ever want to reconcile. he never did up to now.

I told you not to go to counseling!! That is a disaster because he is fogged out. The reason he still wants the divorce is because the affair is not over. This is why you need to keep tormenting the OW. grin Do everything to get ahold of her parents.

Please do not go to counseling again. It is a waste of time and he will just drag you down with his fogbabble. He is a man who is drunk on SAKI.
i won't go to counseling to be so cooperative to his divorce plans. i'll try find to find OW's family. but she just went on and on saying she gave up and I really need to stop otherwise will drive my husband further away. how do i know if she really gives up?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
i won't go to counseling to be so cooperative to his divorce plans. i'll try find to find OW's family. but she just went on and on saying she gave up and I really need to stop otherwise will drive my husband further away. how do i know if she really gives up?
When you're able to prove NC.

Don't believe anything she says.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
i won't go to counseling to be so cooperative to his divorce plans. i'll try find to find OW's family. but she just went on and on saying she gave up and I really need to stop otherwise will drive my husband further away. how do i know if she really gives up?

The affair is not over or she wouldn't be trying so hard to manipulate you. If she gave a crap about "driving" your husband away, she wouldn't have slept with your husband.

Send her this: "I know you are still in touch with my husband and you will pay until all contact stops. I have more surprises coming.. "
got home, WH is mad about the recent exposures. he forces me to divorce again. i said no, i want him to move out and separate for a while. Then he said we must have agreement on the divorce now, otherwise he wouldn't move out.

He then threatened he will just force me to stay in the current state. I told him if he force me to have a divorce while the second baby is only 5month old, i will expose his affair to his work place. Then he took out his phone and played a clip that he recorded after a fight we had just after he just started the affair. in the clip, he was talking to my daughter, the daughter was saying she doesn't want mommy to hurt daddy (I was pregnant at that time, and he treated me like [censored] after slept with other women, during the fight i threw my daughter's watch at him, missed, but my daughter was standing near us that day). he said if we bring this to court, he would show others that i'm emotionally not stable and violent. it was that one time, we had fight in front of kid. now he's threatening to use it against me if i don't cooperative to divorce immediately.

i think this is really a deal breaker. i never thought he would be this low.

i guess i need to talk to my lawyer again to discuss if that clip will cause me any trouble on custody.

Or i would seriously think about signing the divorce paper just to move with the kids to CA.

I tried and tried, and got hurt and hurt. I don't see the point here anymore.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
got home, WH is mad about the recent exposures. he forces me to divorce again. i said no, i want him to move out and separate for a while. Then he said we must have agreement on the divorce now, otherwise he wouldn't move out.

I would not talk to him anymore about this. Contact your lawyer on Monday and make arrangements to get moved out. The goal will be to protect yourself legally until his affair dies.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Then he took out his phone and played a clip that he recorded after a fight we had just after he just started the affair. in the clip, he was talking to my daughter, the daughter was saying she doesn't want mommy to hurt daddy (I was pregnant at that time, and he treated me like [censored] after slept with other women, during the fight i threw my daughter's watch at him, missed, but my daughter was standing near us that day). he said if we bring this to court, he would show others that i'm emotionally not stable and violent. it was that one time, we had fight in front of kid. now he's threatening to use it against me if i don't cooperative to divorce immediately.

The clip isn't of the actual fight but of a liar and cheater possibly coaxing a 4 yr old to say stuff about mean old mommy...GMAB. Don't worry about this. He will look like an ahole no matter how he tries to spin this. People who find out they are being cheated on tend to get emotional...go figure!!! Don't blow this out of proportion. He is trying to scare you and it is WEAK!!!

ETA: If he keeps bringing it up, tell him to knock himself out because it proves nothing and he will look like a bigger jerk.
Thanks a lot, Mel and black_raven! Your replies helped me calm down and not read too much into his actions. I tried to believe that he was just desperately trying to get back to me on exposing him or threaten me not to expose him to his work place.

Anyway, i sent WH another email, telling him we've been together for 15 years. Although we feel like we only have hatred , betrayal, and disappointment toward each other right now, we might still have love, just deeply buried. I asked him not to force me to make any life changing decisions (force me to have divorce) within 6 months of DDay, that would give him another 2 months to cool down and come to sense what's the right thing to do, hopefully. I told him i still believe our marriage could survive if he terminates all forms of contact with OW.

Meanwhile, because of our tension, MIL couldn't really take the stress anymore and got sick. WH cares a lot about his mom (father passed away more than 10 years ago). She tried to talk to both of us again, and ask WH end the affair and shift his focus back to the kids and family. WH agreed not to talk about divorce for another two months, and he said he will not contact the OW anymore. She hates him now. I don't have proof that they ended the A. But I guess I shall not force him to send NC letter or commit to our marriage right now. WH is strongly against moving out, since his sick mom is living with us, and doesn't want to leave the 2 kids. Not sure how much he will listen to his mom, since previously he just ignored all the talks against his A.

I think I want to do another 2 months of Plan A. And looking for Cal jobs in the meantime. i ordered another copy of SAA for him. Hope he can read it. If he shows signs that wants to reconcile, I'll talk to him more about Dr Harley's program of restoring love after affair.

Any suggestions are welcomed. Thank you so much!
is it just my wishful thinking that they are going to end the A after I exposed the A to OW's work place, posted on cheaterville, and threaten to do more if they don't stop? They have a long history that they know each other for more than 20 years, and always have been good friends.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
is it just my wishful thinking that they are going to end the A after I exposed the A to OW's work place, posted on cheaterville, and threaten to do more if they don't stop? They have a long history that they know each other for more than 20 years, and always have been good friends.


It may be you need Plan B. They may need to 'do the realtionship' before seeing how much of a disaster it will be. However if you contact her parents it could resolve things very quickly and see him dumped.

She's been sqawking very loudly to get you to stop - she must have a sore point you haven't hit yet.

However you can do this from within Plan B. If it has gotten to the point where he is threatening you with lame videos you probably need to stop talking to him.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
It may be you need Plan B. They may need to 'do the realtionship' before seeing how much of a disaster it will be. However if you contact her parents it could resolve things very quickly and see him dumped.

She's been sqawking very loudly to get you to stop - she must have a sore point you haven't hit yet.

However you can do this from within Plan B. If it has gotten to the point where he is threatening you with lame videos you probably need to stop talking to him.

"do the realtionship" the OW and WH live in two different country. They cannot have a physical relationship even if he moves out. WH said he wouldn't contact OW anymore. Do i need to ask him to send out a NC letter now?
Yes, he must hand write a NC letter that meets with your approval and you be the one to ensure it gets mailed to the correct, and it needs to follow the templates on this site.

Also, EP's MUST be implemented if he is serious about recovery.

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Yes, he must hand write a NC letter that meets with your approval and you be the one to ensure it gets mailed to the correct, and it needs to follow the templates on this site.

Also, EP's MUST be implemented if he is serious about recovery.

LTL

Thanks, LearnedTooLate. But WH hasn't talked about recovery yet. Two days ago, he wanted to have a quick divorce otherwise he wouldn't move out. He just agreed not to force me to talk about divorce in two months. I was hoping if he really terminate contact and would come to sense and want the marriage back. Shall I give him more time to think this through and do a another round of Plan A?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
"do the realtionship" the OW and WH live in two different country. They cannot have a physical relationship even if he moves out. WH said he wouldn't contact OW anymore. Do i need to ask him to send out a NC letter now?


If there is no NC letter they want to keep the fantasty alive that there *is* a relationship.

The poor foggy fools probably haven't even addressed the question of geography. Or if they have, it is somehow your fault.

If you get out the way, where you are not in contact and they are free to make a relationship, they will see - that they can't!

They will probably start fighting over where they should live and each blaming the other. Or the long distance nature of things will end it.

Before Plan B, the BS is blamed for everything. Once she goes, they see the many numerous flaws in the ludicrous idea of their being together.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
and do a another round of Plan A?


NEVER do another round of Plan A!

It will encourage him that you are not really serious. Women who are too available and who remain in contact look desperate and unappealing.

Besides, any more of his threats will drive you nuts. Get out of the way and let the affair destroy itself.

Thanks, indiegirl. I'll talk to WH see if he's willing to send out NC letter. But I'm not sure if he's there yet and if I should give him some more time to process the whole thing.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
NEVER do another round of Plan A!

It will encourage him that you are not really serious. Women who are too available and who remain in contact look desperate and unappealing.

Besides, any more of his threats will drive you nuts. Get out of the way and let the affair destroy itself.

Thanks, indiegirl. It's just too difficult for me to take care of two kids, one being 5-month old just by myself. MIL is not healthy enough to help me right now. My son is teething right now, i guess, and is waking up every hour from 11pm to 5am.
My close relative called WH today, try to convince him to work on the marriage. He agreed to try. Then WH and I talked when making dinner. He is willing to send OW the no contact letter, and agree to work on the marriage, although reluctantly. I think he's still pretty mad that i exposed the A to OW's work place. Not sure if he agrees on NC just to have me stop exposure and protect OW. He asked me to promise not to expose them further and take OW's cheaterville link off public. I replied i could do so only if he remains NC and commit to rebuild our marriage.

I talked to him briefly about Dr Harley's program,NC for life, ultimate transparency, 15hrs a week to restore love, etc. He still has doubts. I guess I should give him some time. obviously he's not ready yet. and the way he's talking is just like damage control. He's not remorseful at all and I don't like his attitude. I think i need proof that they did end the A, and NC. I need all his pwd and totally block OW. Is he in withdrawal? I wish he would give us more space. I don't really want to be around him that much right now.
He is not serious. I would tell him you will never remove ow from cheaterville and I predict you will see his true colors. In fact, I would also put her photo on shesahomewrecker.com and send it to here. Why would your husband care if the affair is over? The fact that he cares so much means the affair is not over.

Will he give you the OWs home address and husbands contact info so you can tell him about the affair? If the affair is over then he should want to do that.

You should separate from him as soon as you can.
". I guess I should give him some time."

Yes, I would give him 10 minutes. That is all it takes to end your affair and make a commitment if you are serious. If you are not serious, it takes a lot of "time..."
Mel,you are right. he's lying to my face again. He told me he's willing to work on the marriage. And he asked about the exposure stuff. I thought he's made a commitment, and said i probably shall not reveal that much to him, but since you made a promise, it's just that i didn't plan to expose to her work place, just that i don't have her other contact info. i told him i don't know her husband's number...

then he took a walk and back, went to bathroom with the phone. i told him i want to look at the phone, and his chat records. he's reluctant and said he could show me this one time. i said no, we need to be 100% transparent to rebuild trust. he refused to give the pwd and let me check his phone freely. i saw OW is still in his contacts. he then said he would contact her before the 6 month after DDday!!! He's totally lying to me, he never wanted to work on the marriage, he's still trying to divorce me and win the posow back.

then i demand him move out by this Friday. i find a mutual friend to be our IM and will call him tomorrow about it. i'm done talking to him!
You just have to get the contact information of her husband and her family. I would not rest until you do that.

I am sorry he is making this so hard. But the affair has never ended. frown
I wouldnt even give him until Friday.
I suggest you find an IM ASAP and change the locks on the house.
You really need to enter Plan B ASAP
Thanks, Mel and Jedi. Found IM, a mutual friend in CA, told him about the IM role, sent him about the IM training school, and he's willing to have us. Told WH to move out ASAP.

Work on OW's contacts this afternoon.
As a general rule, the IM should be same sex
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks, Mel and Jedi. Found IM, a mutual friend in CA, told him about the IM role, sent him about the IM training school, and he's willing to have us. Told WH to move out ASAP.

Work on OW's contacts this afternoon.
When's WH leaving? Did you find OW's contacts?
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
As a general rule, the IM should be same sex

all the female mutual friend are good friends of mine. WH would feel they are biased. although this friend is WH's good buddy, he's also a BH before. He thinks we definitely should reconcile.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
When's WH leaving? Did you find OW's contacts?

I asked him to leave asap, before Friday. He didn't tell me when he's gonna leave. I got a feel that he's gonna force me to talk about divorce again if i want him to move out.

i haven't found OW's contacts yet. I know her cell, trying to get a hold of the call records. but it's difficult. contacted a company provide this service today, but hasn't got back to me yet.
feel like just want to get it over with. WH is such a POS.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
As a general rule, the IM should be same sex

all the female mutual friend are good friends of mine. WH would feel they are biased. although this friend is WH's good buddy, he's also a BH before. He thinks we definitely should reconcile.


Nooo! It is so easy to bond with a fellow betrayed person. Do not let a man into the intimate details of your marriage. That is all your H did! How can he feel bad about that when you are doing the same?

Your IM is SUPPOSED to be someone he will not like. Choose someone who will behave neutrally but will act for YOUR interests, who is female. Do not care for one moment what your WH thinks of the choice. If it bothers him so much he can decide to be faithful and come home.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I asked him to leave asap, before Friday.


Asking a wayward to leave is kind of like asking a penguin to fly. Change the locks next time he is out of the home. Have his belongings sent on.

Don't wait for him to do anything. You drive this bus.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
When's WH leaving? Did you find OW's contacts?

I asked him to leave asap, before Friday. He didn't tell me when he's gonna leave. I got a feel that he's gonna force me to talk about divorce again if i want him to move out.

i haven't found OW's contacts yet. I know her cell, trying to get a hold of the call records. but it's difficult. contacted a company provide this service today, but hasn't got back to me yet.
Can you move his stuff into a box and change the locks?

You know the OW's name, correct? Did you run a background report?
Not all our friends know about this (many are related to his work), so my choices are very limited. I'd never share intimate details with him, actually i'm not very close to this friend. we don't live in the same city. I already asked him, and he agreed.

I can't change locks. we live in the company housing. I could only threat to ask help from our neighbors, aka, his colleagues, to help me move, so that he would agree to move out.

OW is in China, I couldn't run background check, and it's difficult to find her contacts. I don't know her much, and WH's friends. trying to find a PI now.

My aunt called the OW yesterday. Don't know the details yet.
Is OW on any social networks?

Are these friends that you haven't exposed to, friends of your marriage? Will they put pressure on your WH to end his affair? If so, then I would expose to them.
OW is not on any social network. but I exposed to 5-6 their close friends, and her work place.

Will the waywards actually listen to anyone? His family talked to him, my family talked to him, the marriage counselor talked to him about all the consequences with the kids, no use.... Those that I haven't exposed to either related to work, either are more of friends on my side. After I exposed the A to IM, he tried to call WH, but WH just wouldn't talk to him. They supposed to very good friends for a long time.
just read through the "False Recovery" thread...God, this is so difficult, and we are not even close to get the A end. it might take months and even years...

Can i just go to CA with kids and end all these? i don't see any hope on him. Did i tell you guys that it's very very difficult for him to find the job that he's currently doing at CA, or even else where? We might have a long distance situation for child visitation for a long time. i think he's selfish enough to hold on to this job and not relocate to CA with me (We lived in CA for a long time and moved to the current state for his job). He already said, this job is for the kids...
xpbrain, I would move as fast as you can and get out of there. Let him follow you to California. You are going to have to deal with him as long as you live in his company housing so I would get going and get moving.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
xpbrain, I would move as fast as you can and get out of there. Let him follow you to California. You are going to have to deal with him as long as you live in his company housing so I would get going and get moving.

yeah, i'm trying very hard to find jobs in CA, pretty promising, I think.

but he got a good job here, which is very important to him, and the chances of him finding similar ones in CA are very slim. i seriously doubt he would follow us to CA even if he's out of the fog. then that would be issue of justified compensation VS. POJA. I guess I shouldn't worry about that now?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
xpbrain, I would move as fast as you can and get out of there. Let him follow you to California. You are going to have to deal with him as long as you live in his company housing so I would get going and get moving.

yeah, i'm trying very hard to find jobs in CA, pretty promising, I think.

but he got a good job here, which is very important to him, and the chances of him finding similar ones in CA are very slim. i seriously doubt he would follow us to CA even if he's out of the fog. then that would be issue of justified compensation VS. POJA. I guess I shouldn't worry about that now?

If he is serious about reconciliation, he will follow you.
How soon can you get to California?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
How soon can you get to California?

need to find a job first. there's one opening my friend might be able to refer me. it takes at least a couple months to get the offer. then arrange moving.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
How soon can you get to California?

need to find a job first. there's one opening my friend might be able to refer me. it takes at least a couple months to get the offer. then arrange moving.
Is there anyone that you could move and stay with in CA, until you find a job?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Is there anyone that you could move and stay with in CA, until you find a job?

Thanks BrainHurts. I don't have any relatives in CA. I can't really imagine living with my friends with two young kids, most of them have their own kids, it would really too much for them.

My aunts called my WH and even the OW, trying to convince them to end the affair. I know they want the best for me, but they don't agree on the approach I'm taking. They even apologized that I shouldn't really expose them, might be too extreme. And they called me again to make sure I keep being nice to him, tolerate him, wait for the affair to die a natual death, just for the sake of kids, and WH used to be a nice guy.

I didn't even bother to explain my approach, just a bit disappointed. No wonder ppl want to have affairs, they got rewarded for cheating.
It is sad that there are alot of people whom know nothing of how to survive and fight an affair.

I worry about you. Are you nursing the baby? Can you go to your doctor for some ADs?

At the very least, can you ask your WH to move out?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
they don't agree on the approach I'm taking. They even apologized that I shouldn't really expose them, might be too extreme. And they called me again to make sure I keep being nice to him, tolerate him, wait for the affair to die a natual death, just for the sake of kids, and WH used to be a nice guy.

I didn't even bother to explain my approach, just a bit disappointed. No wonder ppl want to have affairs, they got rewarded for cheating.

There are many casualties and much fallout after an A. Your friends and family will show their true colors. Try not to listen to them too much. They don't understand how to deal with A's. Putting your trust in Dr. Harley is a good thing. It saved my M. Conventional wisdom by the general public falls on the opposite end of spectrum. It amazes me how A's are glorified in the media. There are even TV shows ABOUT adultery making it look like a good and exciting idea. Makes me sick.

My FWW's A has created much turmoil with our family. To this day there is still fallout we are dealing with 3 years later. The good news is that if your H commits himself to R, you create and amazing M together!

Sorry you are experiencing this. I understand exactly what you are going through.

Originally Posted by BrainHurts
It is sad that there are alot of people whom know nothing of how to survive and fight an affair.

I worry about you. Are you nursing the baby? Can you go to your doctor for some ADs?

At the very least, can you ask your WH to move out?

Thanks, BrainHurts. I'm doing ok smile. I'm not sure if I need ADs, but I won't be against when I need them. I'm still nursing the baby, but I plan to cut it soon.

I firmly asked WH to move out by COB this Friday, otherwise I will ask help from his colleagues to help me move. That's the last thing WH wants his colleagues to know about his A.
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
There are many casualties and much fallout after an A. Your friends and family will show their true colors. Try not to listen to them too much. They don't understand how to deal with A's. Putting your trust in Dr. Harley is a good thing. It saved my M. Conventional wisdom by the general public falls on the opposite end of spectrum. It amazes me how A's are glorified in the media. There are even TV shows ABOUT adultery making it look like a good and exciting idea. Makes me sick.

My FWW's A has created much turmoil with our family. To this day there is still fallout we are dealing with 3 years later. The good news is that if your H commits himself to R, you create and amazing M together!

Sorry you are experiencing this. I understand exactly what you are going through.

Thanks, 20YearHistory. I understand my relatives want the best for me. They try to reason with me with their own experience and stories they heard. But I'm certain the kind of FR my WH is willing to do, will most likely end up another A, or resuming A. I wouldn't want to experience and live the A over and over again.
Is it true that with the condition like my WH, deep in the fog, no intention of recovery for our marriage, it would at least take several months for him to wake up?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Is it true that with the condition like my WH, deep in the fog, no intention of recovery for our marriage, it would at least take several months for him to wake up?

HE will only come out of the fog if his affair ends. If he ends his affair and cuts off contact with the OW, then his fog will dissipate over several months. However, he CAN commit to end his affair and recover the marriage while in the fog. As long as he does that, there is hope.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[. I know they want the best for me, but they don't agree on the approach I'm taking. They even apologized that I shouldn't really expose them, might be too extreme. And they called me again to make sure I keep being nice to him, tolerate him, wait for the affair to die a natual death, just for the sake of kids, and WH used to be a nice guy.

WE hear this type of advice quite often. It is easy to give such advice when it is not their ox getting gored. Dr Harely, on the other hand, completely understands the damaging effects staying in touch has on a woman's mental health and he recommends separation.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
HE will only come out of the fog if his affair ends. If he ends his affair and cuts off contact with the OW, then his fog will dissipate over several months. However, he CAN commit to end his affair and recover the marriage while in the fog. As long as he does that, there is hope.

Thanks, Mel. wish we still got hope.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Is it true that with the condition like my WH, deep in the fog, no intention of recovery for our marriage, it would at least take several months for him to wake up?

We have to remember that "the fog" is a term Dr. Harley uses to describe "irrational thinking." (as explained on his Radio Show)

So, it can take several months or years for a wayward to "come out of the fog."
That is why exposure is so important: it speeds up the natural death of the affair.
After the affair dies a natural death, the wayward will be in depression and withdrawl (as described in Surviving an Affair)for several weeks before they start to emerge from the fog.

My (now ex)wife's affair started more than 2 years ago and she is still in the fog!
I'm sorry to hear that, Jedi.

WH will move out tomorrow. However, somehow, he chose to move to his office. I know it's none of my business, but just don't understand. i told him to get his own apt, and can't come to our apt during kids visitation. anyway, it's very sad... i thought he wouldn't leave the kids and his mom... MIL got sick again. He cares about his mother a lot. and last saturday, he sworn that he would not contact OW on his mom's health. And today, i reminded him that and he said he will keep that promise. shall i believe him? if he's not going to contact ow, why wouldn't let me check his phone freely and give me all his passwords... and he is still not willing to commit to the family. anyway, it's good he's moving out. from tomorrow, no contact with him.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[. I know they want the best for me, but they don't agree on the approach I'm taking. They even apologized that I shouldn't really expose them, might be too extreme. And they called me again to make sure I keep being nice to him, tolerate him, wait for the affair to die a natual death, just for the sake of kids, and WH used to be a nice guy.

WE hear this type of advice quite often. It is easy to give such advice when it is not their ox getting gored. Dr Harely, on the other hand, completely understands the damaging effects staying in touch has on a woman's mental health and he recommends separation.


My own family, who are lovely and supportive, didn't really understand the need to be as 'extreme' as changing my contact details. When I banned mention of his name they thought it was so odd..He was the main thing they wanted to talk about!

However a few months into Plan B, my mother discovered her sister's daughter was also a BW. She immediately recommended the MB plan and this website to her sister.

When describing the advice she gave to her sister she said: "I have no doubt that this plan will save any marraige that can be saved. If it can't it is his fault. You know we don't even talk about Indie's WH any more and it is so much better"

I said: "That sounds as though you don't even discuss him when I am not around?!" She replied: "We don't. Since you cut him out, we see he can't hurt you and you getting better and stronger. So he stopped being of any importance."

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I'm sorry to hear that, Jedi.

WH will move out tomorrow. However, somehow, he chose to move to his office. I know it's none of my business, but just don't understand. i told him to get his own apt, and can't come to our apt during kids visitation. anyway, it's very sad... i thought he wouldn't leave the kids and his mom... MIL got sick again. He cares about his mother a lot. and last saturday, he sworn that he would not contact OW on his mom's health. And today, i reminded him that and he said he will keep that promise. shall i believe him? if he's not going to contact ow, why wouldn't let me check his phone freely and give me all his passwords... and he is still not willing to commit to the family. anyway, it's good he's moving out. from tomorrow, no contact with him.
Great xp, so you will enter Plan B tomorrow, correct?

When will you be handing him the letter? What do you have planned for yourself?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
And today, i reminded him that and he said he will keep that promise. shall i believe him? if he's not going to contact ow, why wouldn't let me check his phone freely and give me all his passwords... and he is still not willing to commit to the family. anyway, it's good he's moving out. from tomorrow, no contact with him.
with him.

xpbrain, he is in touch with the OW every day. I am sorry, but you cannot believe him. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.
Thanks guys for your replies.

@ indiegirl, thanks for sharing your experience. The elders in my family all have an opinion of what i should do to save my marriage, and it would be disrespect if I don't follow their advice. It is a big disappointment that I was hoping they could help me with the kids during the transition time when I move to CA. but, now it makes the situation more difficult.

@ BH, I will start plan b today. I sort of wrote him a plan b email on 3/18, but I didn't have IM ready and some of the details planned out. Then on 3/31, I found out although WH agreed to cut contacts with OW, he refused to work on the marriage, refuse to have extraordinary precautions, i emailed him again to have him move out by 4/4. This time, I have IM ready, kids visitation plan ready. and he set up sth temporary at his office, won't come back home sleep tonight.

I will keep looking for CA jobs. i think now i have little love left for him. I will keep working on myself, more workout, taking care babies. I don't get good sleep because of my 5-month old wakes up way too often at night. Now I'm the only person take care of him at night and have to work during the day. hope to catch up some sleep during WH's visitation time and over the weekends.

@Mel, It's blowing my mind that how he would ever do this to his mother if he really is in tough with OW every day. He's always very close to him mother, esp after his father passed away, and his mother is in poor health now.
Would it be helpful if i ask IM to send WH the link of the thread "recently exposed my affair to my wife.." to show what kind of efforts should be put into recovery? But WH now is still in love with OW, worry about her a lot, won't delete any contact info, etc. Or shall I wait till he's remorseful and want to make amends himself? Thanks a lot!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Would it be helpful if i ask IM to send WH the link of the thread "recently exposed my affair to my wife.." to show what kind of efforts should be put into recovery? But WH now is still in love with OW, worry about her a lot, won't delete any contact info, etc. Or shall I wait till he's remorseful and want to make amends himself? Thanks a lot!
I would wait until he's ready for recovery. It will do no good trying to educate a wayward.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Would it be helpful if i ask IM to send WH the link of the thread "recently exposed my affair to my wife.." to show what kind of efforts should be put into recovery? But WH now is still in love with OW, worry about her a lot, won't delete any contact info, etc. Or shall I wait till he's remorseful and want to make amends himself? Thanks a lot!
I would wait until he's ready for recovery. It will do no good trying to educate a wayward.

Thanks, BH.
How are you doing? Is he out?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Would it be helpful if i ask IM to send WH the link of the thread "recently exposed my affair to my wife.." to show what kind of efforts should be put into recovery? But WH now is still in love with OW, worry about her a lot, won't delete any contact info, etc. Or shall I wait till he's remorseful and want to make amends himself? Thanks a lot!

nonono...... He doesn't care one whit about your efforts and you will just lose the board as a resource.

Did he leave?
@BH and Mel, He's out. But i'm not doing so good. Probably because of lack of sleep, or his moving out, I felt very very sad today. Not so many good news today. Got word back from the contact person of the job i'm applying. The senior she knows from the group would not recommend working there. it's chaotic, that's what she said. But I'm still going to apply, at least get in first and then do internal transfer. That company would be my best fit to start a new life.

Also, my current boss is not too happy about my schedule change to accommodate the plan b, I have to drop off DD myself. I've already take many hours to go to counseling sessions, and kids wellness check, maternity leave and stuff. I wish i can just quit. but it would be great deal of stress without a job in sight and have to pay for rent, kids daycare and everything.

I really hate the poswh.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
@BH and Mel, He's out. But i'm not doing so good. Probably because of lack of sleep, or his moving out, I felt very very sad today. Not so many good news today. Got word back from the contact person of the job i'm applying. The senior she knows from the group would not recommend working there. it's chaotic, that's what she said. But I'm still going to apply, at least get in first and then do internal transfer. That company would be my best fit to start a new life.

Also, my current boss is not too happy about my schedule change to accommodate the plan b, I have to drop off DD myself. I've already take many hours to go to counseling sessions, and kids wellness check, maternity leave and stuff. I wish i can just quit. but it would be great deal of stress without a job in sight and have to pay for rent, kids daycare and everything.

I really hate the poswh.
Sorry friend, the first few days to weeks are the worst.

Take one step at a time. Can you get some rest this weekend?

Try not to think of it all at one time.

Apply for the jobs and cross that bridge when it gets here.

Can you spread your days off or time off throughout the weeks? Is there anyone at work you can share rides with or drop off duties?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Sorry friend, the first few days to weeks are the worst.

Take one step at a time. Can you get some rest this weekend?

Try not to think of it all at one time.

Thanks, BH. Yeah, over the weekend, MIL will watch both kids in the morning and I can catch some sleep. This is just hopeless... i don't even know he would ever come to his sense. I really want to divorce him and make him hurt!

I guess I can take some time off... I can ask help from my DD's classmates' parents, but they are all my WH's colleagues, might have the risk of knowing sth is wrong in our family.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
, but they are all my WH's colleagues, might have the risk of knowing sth is wrong in our family.

Tell them that your husband is having an affair and breaking up the family and you need help with the kids
plan b has been very difficult on me emotionally.

it really got me when my boss asked me how long does the change of work schedule will be need. I said I don't know and ended the conversation by asking if we could talk about it another time. I really don't want to cry in front of my boss. Then i told boss it's just temporary, should be just 3-4 months. I will most likely be in CA at that time.

Over the weekend, MIL got sick again. It's like everything, I mean every single thing is against me right now. She told me I might need to ask help from my relatives to take care of the kids. She wanted to help me so much, but just she's too old and can't really take the stress.

Then my relatives wanted to lecture me how to survive the affair by tolerating the WH. All I want is sb. to help me with the kids while i'm working full time. I guess sometimes, nanny might be a better option.

WH moved out on Friday. Visited kids and MIL on Sat. He did come in the apt since MIL is sick and couldn't really go out at that time. I went out for a movie and a hair cut.

Feeling blue. More than ever I wanted to be with my friends. I think he would never come to his senses, and more than ever I want to divorce him.
xpbrain, I am sorry this has been hard for you. Plan B is very difficult when you don't have all the holes plugged. Once you do that, you will find yourself feeling amazingly better. The affair and your H's mean behavior are the main source of your depression. Once you close all those holes, it will get better.

Do you have a relative who will help you and drop the marriage counselor act?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
xpbrain, I am sorry this has been hard for you. Plan B is very difficult when you don't have all the holes plugged. Once you do that, you will find yourself feeling amazingly better. The affair and your H's mean behavior are the main source of your depression. Once you close all those holes, it will get better.

Do you have a relative who will help you and drop the marriage counselor act?

Thanks, Mel. I talked a relative, but she has her own issues and will discuss with her family before getting back to me.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Then my relatives wanted to lecture me how to survive the affair by tolerating the WH.

I would avoid these thoughtless, uncaring relatives. Isn't it easy to lecture you about staying in such a horrible situation when it is not their ox getting gored?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Then my relatives wanted to lecture me how to survive the affair by tolerating the WH.

I would avoid these thoughtless, uncaring relatives. Isn't it easy to lecture you about staying in such a horrible situation when it is not their ox getting gored?


I agree with this so much.

You need to make this move happen so you can be near supportive people.

We recommend that you Plan B any unsupportive uncaring people. That is for your sanity plus it is the only way they will learn.

Guys, I'm the caller for today's MB Radio Show. Following are recap of what Dr. Harley and Joyce talked about my case on the show.

Cause of the problem:

- Children make marriage worse. We had our first child 10 years after we got married. Guess we were never ready. We always complain that we don't have our own time, and missed our life before we had kids.
- more conflicts,
- no time together,
- difficult second pregnancy,
- lack of help w/ children.

- WH's job. Lots of stress, we have to relocate and leave all the friends, lack of friends at the current state.


So WH chose to escape the stress and had this A. He is totally irrational. Right now, I'm not sure if he still believes his relationship w/ OW will work. But in reality the relationship is hopeless. More likely OW won't divorce her H, and the A will die a natural death. WH might still be unclear about what to do. He wanted to divorce me as quickly as possible two weeks ago. Then he sworn on his mother's health will never contact OW. But still he wouldn't delete OW's contact and all the social network app. He might be in emotional withdrawal.

What to do next:

- Plan A: short-term, before I move to CA. I need to control my temper, NO love busters, meet his EN, I guess don't talk too much about the A? give WH good memories about me before plan B. Letting him know he'll have a loving family and forgiving wife, instead of losing everything.

- Plan B: Move to CA. for my own mental and physical health, separate from WH while he's still unclear of what to do. get support from friends in CA. current state too much trigger, faster recovery in a new surrounding.

- About child custody: Try to prevent him from filing D at current state, by threatening to expose his A at his employer, or do expose in advance. But I'll be very careful about this. This job means a lot to him, even though it might be the main cause of our marriage problem. Lost of reputation at his work would be devastating for him. I will only use it as a last resort.

- EP!


So I'll ask WH to move back, plan A him. looking for CA jobs at the same time, more networking to do.
I just heard it! Great! How long until you can move away?
I don't know. applied a job and will follow up with some networking. in two weeks, they will decide who to interview. 2-4 weeks for a decision. 1 month for the moving. my situation right now shipping my stuff to CA will save more money. so about 3 months the fastest to leave.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I just heard it! Great! How long until you can move away?
BEFORE you ask your husband to come back, please email Dr Harley and tell him you can't move for 3 months at the earliest. That is a very very kong time to be in plan a and I think it might be too much. I don't think he knows this.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
BEFORE you ask your husband to come back, please email Dr Harley and tell him you can't move for 3 months at the earliest. That is a very very kong time to be in plan a and I think it might be too much. I don't think he knows this.

Thanks, Mel. I'll do that.
Tell him you have been in plan a since NOVEMBER.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Tell him you have been in plan a since NOVEMBER.

Ok. I'll let him know. Yeah, but it wasn't a correct plan a, lots of love busters, and major exposure to OW's friend and work only started from mid March. well, tons of withdrawal and no deposit for both of LB for a long time.
The point is that you have been dealing with this since November. Women are only supposed to be in plan a for 3-4 weeks.
I heard your call also xpbrain. I also think you need to email Dr. Harley and let him know you can't move for 3 months.

Thanks, Mel and BH. Wrote to Joyce and Dr. Harley. Will wait for their response before making any move.
Good girl!!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks, Mel and BH. Wrote to Joyce and Dr. Harley. Will wait for their response before making any move.
Good job and you sounded like a champ on the call. Good job, my friend.
Thanks Mel and BH. Here is Dr Harley's reply.

It depends. If your mental health continues to deteriorate, it may be too long. One the other hand, knowing you have a plan may help you put your husband�s bad behavior in perspective, and it may not affect you the same way.


-�-----------------------

WH just moved out for a week, to be frank I don't really want to see him at this time. Probably I'll wait till I travel out of town for interviews? I don't know. I'll think about it.
is it that doing plan A will have a better chance for recovery? but i do want to move back to CA, and WH mostly likely wouldn't want to move. if he got out of the fog, and didn't wanna move? I'm asking my old friends (females) now to help me on the new job, big favor, i don't wanna bail later on, but what if he doesn't wanna move?

what should i do?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
is it that doing plan A will have a better chance for recovery?

It doesn't really help betrayed wives that much and can often backfire when they get worn down emotionally from being around the lying, cheating WS.

Quote
but i do want to move back to CA, and WH mostly likely wouldn't want to move. if he got out of the fog, and didn't wanna move? I'm asking my old friends (females) now to help me on the new job, big favor, i don't wanna bail later on, but what if he doesn't wanna move?

what should i do?

If he doesn't follow you there then your marriage would be over obviously. If he wants to be married, he would follow you.
He would also need to put EPs in place and do the work to recover. I would keep working on what you need to do to get to CA.

Are you in Plan B yet?
I'm kind afraid if he's still contacting OW and I'm back to plan A, things will get all chaotic again.

Moving to CA will give me support, even if he doesn't ever wake up, I could survive in CA. But it will also create obstacle for him to stay married to me.

I started not so perfect plan b since 4/4. Since MiL lives with me, WH stops by our apt, while he doesn't come in, according to mil, and pick up mil for lunch or sth, whenever he has time. Sometimes we do switch cars, since I drive the SUV, only which could fit both kids comfortably, and he need to use my car during his visit. But I asked him to buy another car seat for his sedan. Other than that I don't make any contact to him.
At my down times, I thought I couldn't take it a day more. Like last weekend, mil got sick and couldn't help me with the kids. She told me I should ask help from my relatives. My relatives asked me to keep tolerating. My boss was not happy about my constantly changing schedule. The job hunting didn't go very smoothly. My baby boy wakes up too often and too long at night. Felt like these couple of months, all the bad luck came at the same time. Wouldn't even bother with that I got read-ended on hwy, though everything was fine. Alamo car rental sent me claims on never noticed car scratch for extra two hundred bucks. Two parking tickets and car got towed once. In addition, my laptop died a sudden death last night, wish my WH's A could be like that.

But ok days, i guess I still try to be as upbeat as possible. Go to gym and movie during WH's visitation time does help. But I really don't know if I'm mentally strong enough to do plan a. I lost the motivation to do it.....

While I lost motivation to do plan a, my WH might lose motivation to R.

Ok, enough whining. Haven't done my tax yet. This weekend maybe.
What about going into Plan B now?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I'm kind afraid if he's still contacting OW and I'm back to plan A, things will get all chaotic again.

Moving to CA will give me support, even if he doesn't ever wake up, I could survive in CA. But it will also create obstacle for him to stay married to me.

He will easily overcome that obstacle if he is serious about recovery. I promise you it will not stop him.

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time now. hug
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
What about going into Plan B now?

Thanks, BH. I started not so perfect plan b since 4/4. Since MiL lives with me, WH stops by our apt, while he doesn't come in, according to mil, and pick up mil for lunch or sth, whenever he has time. Sometimes we do switch cars, since I drive the SUV, only which could fit both kids comfortably, and he need to use my car during his visit. But I asked him to buy another car seat for his sedan. Other than that I don't make any contact to him.

But now Dr Harley suggested me do some more plan a before moving to CA. I'll find a good timing to ask him move back.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I'm kind afraid if he's still contacting OW and I'm back to plan A, things will get all chaotic again.

Moving to CA will give me support, even if he doesn't ever wake up, I could survive in CA. But it will also create obstacle for him to stay married to me.

He will easily overcome that obstacle if he is serious about recovery. I promise you it will not stop him.

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time now. hug

Thanks Mel. From what I know about him, I doubt he would be serious enough to move.
but I do understand, if he's not serious, i have no point to stay here.
in the email before he moves on 4/4, he's strongly against EP. Wouldn't delete contact or give me pwd or anything. he thought that is not the normal marriage should be like. In addition, he's still blaming me for most of the marriage problem, only admitting that it's wrong for him to have an A, but never ever remorseful. He felt NO love between us. He hates me for exposing him and destroy their true love.

He mentioned that they didn't have any contact for several day, and "in the foreseeable future, they will not contact each other".

what shall i do? please help me! shall i stay in plan b or do plan a?

it really hurts me reading his email. he is still irrational! he really hates me for ruining his love of life.
if plan a, i wouldn't even mention the A and EP and stuff, right? Just avoid love buster and meet his ENs like nothing happened? If he's still cold and distant, i should just put into perspective that he's still wayward or his nonsense is just fogbabble?

should i even ask him to read SAA? would it do any good to educate him?

and dream that one day he would wake up? until i got my job offer?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
in the email before he moves on 4/4, he's strongly against EP. Wouldn't delete contact or give me pwd or anything. he thought that is not the normal marriage should be like. In addition, he's still blaming me for most of the marriage problem, only admitting that it's wrong for him to have an A, but never ever remorseful. He felt NO love between us. He hates me for exposing him and destroy their true love.

He mentioned that they didn't have any contact for several day, and "in the foreseeable future, they will not contact each other".

what shall i do? please help me! shall i stay in plan b or do plan a?

it really hurts me reading his email. he is still irrational! he really hates me for ruining his love of life.
I think you should go into a dark Plan B and cut off all contact off. He has done way too much damage to you and he isn't remorseful at all.

I know it hurts and that's why you should go into Plan B.
MIL oughta find a new place to live also.

One of the biggest strains on a marriage, since it cuts into potential romantic moments is having a relative live in your home.

You are not to be MIL's caregiver nor to depend on her for child care.

Your WH must find a solution for his mother, whether she moves in with him or elsewhere.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
what shall i do? please help me! shall i stay in plan b or do plan a?

If I were you, I would go into a dark Plan B. He already has you so beaten down and distraught that remaining in contact will bring you down even more. And I agree about finding other arrangements for the MIL if you can't get out of there very soon.

How soon can you get out of there?? Can you make this happen sooner?
Thanks BH, reading, Mel. we already spend $2000 a month for child care, and i need to work full time. under current situation, i really can't afford to hire other helper. Also under such emotionally difficult time, it would be really too much taking care of two kids after work all by myself. my 6-month old son still needs to be fed 2-3 times a night, usu. half an hour each feeding, sometimes 1-2hrs still up. Now MIL wakes up at 5am and take over until nanny picks him up. so i only need to get up 1-2 times a night. and my daughter still have nightmares pretty often. MIL's help is just temporary and once my son only wakes 1 time at night, things would be much easier for me. I wanna be creative, but guys, tell me how to do this? i already get up at 7am, leave home at 7:40, drop off daughter, drive to work (commute 20-30min), get off work at 4:15, then pick up DD, go home cook dinner, cleaning and play with DD, shower for DD and put her to bed at 9pm. MIL helps taking care of DS put him to bed at 8pm. then i take the night shift from 9pm to feed my son once or twice.

how soon get out of here depends on how soon i can find a job in CA. moving to other state without a job is too risky financially, and i don't want to have the stress months later if still unemployed and living expenses in CA is as high as here in HI.

is it like my WH, never remorseful, not willing to delete contact or establish EP, would take a long time (months)to wake up even after the affair end? is it really hopeless in my case?
guys, is it possible i can listen to my radio episode again? i wanna find out under what circumstance did Dr. Harley recommend Plan A? is it all love busters (exposures, fights and threats) and go to plan b directly will have less chance to R?

is WH in withdrawal? if he's true to his promise and no longer contact OW, even he refuse EP, and reluctant to work on marriage, i still shall give it a try on eliminating LB and making love bank deposits? i know u guys might say never trust what wayward said.

like in SAA, when sue and john just started R, neither of them are willing to work on the marriage. if they follow their instincts, the marriage will most likely to fail. so if i can confirm he does terminate contacts, i shall just start making deposits, and let him know the importance of EP and convince him later?
Here you go.
Radio Clip of xpbrain1's show
Originally Posted by BrainHurts

Thank you so much, BH.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts

Thank you so much, BH.
You're very welcome.
While i was trying to do some networking in finding jobs in CA, I told WH's previous colleague/long time friend and WH's sort of like mentor previous supervisor about the A. They are all very supportive to me and they tried to talk to WH twice during the last week. But very disappointingly, WH is still adamant about divorce, and claimed the divorce is nothing to do with OW, just our marriage is beyond repair. He told them it's his final decision, and he doesn't want to give our marriage another chance for R.

I also urged MIL to give him more pressure. But she said she already told him if he continues his A, she will terminate her relation with him. But meanwhile she's spending time with him everyday, and supported him on divorce twice. She refused to get involved any further, since she's not strong enough for this...

I think WH would want to file for divorce so that we can have all the child custody issue settled before i move to CA with kids.

After moving to CA, all our friends there will know about his A. but seems like he doesn't care all about these anymore. All he wants is divorcing me and pursuing that OW. Does it mean any further exposure at this time is not that necessary? I shall just move to CA asap and probably do a couple of weeks of plan A before leaving?
WH is having this huge resentment toward me. During his conversation with his previous colleagues, he's very angry toward me, and blaming me for everything.

Another thing, after Saturday's child visitation time, he asked my DD to pass on the words that:"ask mommy don't yell at you, and ask her don't be mad at you". He's crazy now. probably he's trying to get back at me after i ask DD to tell him stop loving OW and stop breaking up the family.

Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Does it mean any further exposure at this time is not that necessary? I shall just move to CA asap and probably do a couple of weeks of plan A before leaving?

For clarification, after entering into "Plan B", the betrayed spouse should have no direct contact with the wayward spouse.
I have not followed your thread; but if you are in Plan B as your signature indicates, then you should not return to Plan A prior to moving.

You should remain in Plan until the affair dies a natural death and your husband agrees to the conditions of the Plan B letter.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Another thing, after Saturday's child visitation time, he asked my DD to pass on the words that:"ask mommy don't yell at you, and ask her don't be mad at you". He's crazy now. probably he's trying to get back at me after i ask DD to tell him stop loving OW and stop breaking up the family.

I wold inform your attorney that your husband is "passing messages to me through the children."
Courts typically do not want children used as messengers.
Thanks Jedi. I was the caller on the 4/10 MB Radio show and Dr. Harley agreed on the long-term Plan B, but suggested to do a short-term Plan A before I move. I did email later to let him know that I started Plan A since end of Nov last year and I prob. couldn't move for another 3 months. His response was it depends on my mental health and knowing I have a plan may help me put WH�s bad behavior in perspective, and it may not affect me the same way. So that's why I mentioned Plan A.

Also thanks for the advice on his letting kid to pass on msg. I will document it.

Does Dark Plan B mean I should NOT even think about WH anymore? Shouldn't really put in any effort to ask friends of any influence to talk to WH? or any additional effort on exposure?

Thank you so much for all your help!
Not using the children as pawns to relay information should also go for you too.

Quote:
after i ask DD to tell him stop loving OW and stop breaking up the family.
Unquote:

What your child was told to say is not wrong, but placing that directive is an unnecessary burden on any child.

Speak with them openly and let THEM know that if THEY have feelings against the affair and/or affair partner, then they SHOULD feel righteous about voicing their beliefs to the Wayward Dad. Don't put words in their mouths to deliver to him.

Some people and judges feel that is emotional abuse and an unfair burden to be put on the children.

How old is the child you are referring to though? (Oh, i just read the info in your signature. 4 years old.)

LTL
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Not using the children as pawns to relay information should also go for you too.

Quote:
after i ask DD to tell him stop loving OW and stop breaking up the family.
Unquote:

What your child was told to say is not wrong, but placing that directive is an unnecessary burden on any child.

Speak with them openly and let THEM know that if THEY have feelings against the affair and/or affair partner, then they SHOULD feel righteous about voicing their beliefs to the Wayward Dad. Don't put words in their mouths to deliver to him.

Some people and judges feel that is emotional abuse and an unfair burden to be put on the children.

How old is the child you are referring to though? (Oh, i just read the info in your signature. 4 years old.)

LTL

Thanks for your reply, LTL. I'm thinking about this too. I thought about having kids to hold the WS accountable, but guess i'm a bit desperate and should not put words in my DD's mouth. She's only 4 yr old, frankly she doesn't truly understand this, and there's no way she can express this by herself. I will stop letting her say those words.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks Jedi. I was the caller on the 4/10 MB Radio show and Dr. Harley agreed on the long-term Plan B, but suggested to do a short-term Plan A before I move. I did email later to let him know that I started Plan A since end of Nov last year and I prob. couldn't move for another 3 months. His response was it depends on my mental health and knowing I have a plan may help me put WH�s bad behavior in perspective, and it may not affect me the same way. So that's why I mentioned Plan A.

Also thanks for the advice on his letting kid to pass on msg. I will document it.

Does Dark Plan B mean I should NOT even think about WH anymore? Shouldn't really put in any effort to ask friends of any influence to talk to WH? or any additional effort on exposure?

Thank you so much for all your help!
A dark Plan B means never seeing or communicating with your WH as long as he won't commit to recovery and put boundaries and EPs in place to protect you and your marriage.

It is really tough to not "think" of your WH. Yes, I would ask your friends/family to not talk to you about your WH. Tell them you need to heal and every time you talk about him it takes you back to square one and that you're really trying to heal from his abuse/affair.

How is your self-care going?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
A dark Plan B means never seeing or communicating with your WH as long as he won't commit to recovery and put boundaries and EPs in place to protect you and your marriage.

It is really tough to not "think" of your WH. Yes, I would ask your friends/family to not talk to you about your WH. Tell them you need to heal and every time you talk about him it takes you back to square one and that you're really trying to heal from his abuse/affair.

How is your self-care going?

Thanks, BH. I guess I'm not in dark plan b at all. I'm still trying different ways to pull him out of the fog, but seems he's brainwashed. Hopeless.

DS is teething and has been difficult after the vaccine shots. Not much self-care the past week, went to gym once. DD's birthday is coming up, will be busy smile.
Hi Guys, I wrote to Dr. Harley again yesterday, and he kindly responded the following: Your husband�s responses are typical of a spouse that is still having an affair. The fact that this woman is married and lives in another country makes it less likely that she will work out for him, but I�m sure he�s thinking that as soon as he�s divorced, he will give it another go with her. There�s not much you can do until he�s run out of options and realizes that his marriage with you is his only escape from continuing depression, but that may take quite a while, even beyond his divorce. I�d continue with your plan to move to California.
shall i try to talk to OW see if she's willing to cut off all contact and change phone no. and etc? Still trying to find out OWH's contact info...

I feel like i need to do sth....
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Hi Guys, I wrote to Dr. Harley again yesterday, and he kindly responded the following: Your husband�s responses are typical of a spouse that is still having an affair. The fact that this woman is married and lives in another country makes it less likely that she will work out for him, but I�m sure he�s thinking that as soon as he�s divorced, he will give it another go with her. There�s not much you can do until he�s run out of options and realizes that his marriage with you is his only escape from continuing depression, but that may take quite a while, even beyond his divorce. I�d continue with your plan to move to California.
Good job for following up with Dr. Harley again.

I would put alot of energy in finding OW's husband's information. Could you hire a PI to get the information?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good job for following up with Dr. Harley again.

I would put alot of energy in finding OW's husband's information. Could you hire a PI to get the information?

Thanks BH. I tried to search online for PIs and other resources. Not that many available. I called a few, but turned out more like online scams. I won't give up though.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good job for following up with Dr. Harley again.

I would put alot of energy in finding OW's husband's information. Could you hire a PI to get the information?

Thanks BH. I tried to search online for PIs and other resources. Not that many available. I called a few, but turned out more like online scams. I won't give up though.
Bravo!!

I'm so surprised that she's not on any social networks in this day and age.

Did you try a background check online with her name? They usually will give their spouses name since it's a public record? What country is she in again?

OW lives in China. the FB/twitter equivalent is Weibo/Wechat. ppl usu. don't use their real name to register account on weibo, and on wechat, they may use their real name, but if she doesn't add me as friend, i can not see her contacts or friends. There's no way any of their classmates will add me to their class group.

I searched her name online, nothing meaningful comes out. they don't really have background check service for public in China, and it's highly regulated now. I did approach several friends in Police Services, and none of them can/is willing to help me. they just don't wanna put their job at stake.

keep calling OW doesn't really make any sense, does it?
Haven't you already spoken with the OW?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Haven't you already spoken with the OW?

i did. i thought about call OW at work again and demand her to terminate the relationship, and let her know i will never agree to divorce... but i guess she won't really listen to me.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
"he wouldn't let me leave with the two kids" -- we lived in the current state for almost 3 years. But if i move to another state with my two kids without his consent, he has the right to file motion to court to force me to come back, which might jeopardize my custody. I very very much want to move back to the state with all the support from my friends. Looking for a job there now. Please help me on this!

That is not usually how it works.

You said that you are both emigrants from China, correct? What is your immigration status in the US? Is your eligibility to live in the US directly tied to your husband? Or are you a US citizen? Hold a visa? A green card?

These things do matter and could cause legal repercussions if you move out of the house, lock him out, file separation or file for a divorce. We need to know your current immigration status and if it is directly tied to your husband through his work visa, student visa, etc.

If your status in the US, ability to remain in the US legally, is directly connected to your husband's status, then you should contact Dr. Harley for advice. Let Dr. H know of your immigration status and the possibility for legal repercussions and ask his advice on how to proceed.

If you are a legal citizen of the US or hold a green card that is not dependent upon your marriage/husband, then disregard my post.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
keep calling OW doesn't really make any sense, does it?
\

No; But make sure she is posted on:
www.cheaterville.com
www.playerblock.com
www.liarscheatersrus.com

Also, if you know where she works I would write a letter to her supervisor.

EDIT: When you write to the supervisor, tell how they communicate and that "she tells him to divorce me and leave me; she tells him that she hates her country and wants to come to America; she complains that Chairman Mao was an old fool and that communism is evil"
Originally Posted by FooledMeTwice
You said that you are both emigrants from China, correct? What is your immigration status in the US? Is your eligibility to live in the US directly tied to your husband? Or are you a US citizen? Hold a visa? A green card?

These things do matter and could cause legal repercussions if you move out of the house, lock him out, file separation or file for a divorce. We need to know your current immigration status and if it is directly tied to your husband through his work visa, student visa, etc.

If your status in the US, ability to remain in the US legally, is directly connected to your husband's status, then you should contact Dr. Harley for advice. Let Dr. H know of your immigration status and the possibility for legal repercussions and ask his advice on how to proceed.

If you are a legal citizen of the US or hold a green card that is not dependent upon your marriage/husband, then disregard my post.

Thank you FooledMeTwice. Legal status is a very important issue for ppl like me from other country studying / working / living in the states. Luckily we got green card years ago, but recently WH applied US citizenship on his own, not even discussing the issue with me. Either he's doing it for MIL, or OW.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
No; But make sure she is posted on:
www.cheaterville.com
www.playerblock.com
www.liarscheatersrus.com

Also, if you know where she works I would write a letter to her supervisor.

EDIT: When you write to the supervisor, tell how they communicate and that "she tells him to divorce me and leave me; she tells him that she hates her country and wants to come to America; she complains that Chairman Mao was an old fool and that communism is evil"

She's on cheaterville, but since it's in English, i'm not too sure how much she cares, although WH is furious about my posting his lover there.

I wrote to her senior managers, and a couple of VPs two times. They never responded me. Nobody wants to get involved. But I'll call to find out her direct supervisor, and tell her colleagues in the same office about her A again.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
she tells him that she hates her country and wants to come to America; she complains that Chairman Mao was an old fool and that communism is evil"

LOL laugh . nobody in China cares about Chairman Mao nowadays. Everybody, yeah, almost everybody wants to send his kids overseas for higher education if he can afford it.
Alienation of Affection Lawsuits

according this wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienation_of_affections#cite_note-2) HI is still one of the states that have AOA law. I have sent out email to the lawyer my MC recommended to ask about AOA. I only had initial consultation with her and she charges $300 per hour! So I hope to gather as much info as possible by myself. Anyone knows about AOA please shed some light.

From reading some of the posts here, I might only be able to file AOA lawsuit after i get divorced. But that's my WH's plan, a quick divorce and marry that OW and live here in HI. OW is still in China now. Could I ask a lawyer to send out a letter to her that the client will sue her for breaking AOA law since she causes the divorce for committing adultery. Then tell her that her name will appear in the public records (do I have to win the suit or not?), and if she tries to find a job after moving here, her perspective employers will find out she's a adulterer when they do the background check. Anyone, google her name will find out info about this AOA case and the fact that she's adulterer. I don't know if lawyer will do the above for me, but I guess that would be most effective to intimidate OW. If that lawyer is not willing to send out letter to OW, shall i just email OW about it myself? do i need to CC WH? in the letter do i need to demand OW to send out NC letter and block WH on all social media apps?


-- Do I need to stay in the current state for the AOA lawsuit, even WH and OM will be in HI? My plan is to move to CA, but if I'll think about staying here if that's necessary.
I'm going to send another email to OW, cc her supervisors and friends. Please give me some advice. Shall i cc WH? WH is still adamant about divorce and not committing to M. Shall i wait till once i find out about OWH's contact info (i don't know when that will be though)? Shall I even have a trip back to China myself, and confront her?

These are the key points:

she'll be sued for Alienation of Affection.

She is on the cheaterville.com / shesahomewrecker.com all those websites.

Give her the msg that i'll never give them a quick and quiet divorce.

her continued adultery is ruining WH's life. She will cause WH lose his job, reputation and everything. Absolutely nothing good will ever result of her relationship which is based upon the deceit and hurt of others.

I'll tell my daughter and son she's the one break up my family. She will forever be my enemy, my daughter's, and my son's enemy. Enjoy the 1/3 of year spending time with them (shall i include this?)

MIL is strongly against the affair. She said with tears that if WH continues his A, she will just consider she doesn't have a son and no contact with him once she's back to her home in China.

All our friends know about the A, even the local ones will know if we get a divorce, including WH's colleagues -- . (So far I've exposed to MIL, SIL, WH's father passed away, 10 of WH's close friend, some are mutual friends of OW, many of my close friends, my relatives, OW's employer (managers, VPs),). Still trying to find out OWH and family.
Has your husband filed for divorce?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Has your husband filed for divorce?

not yet. He's not communicating with at all.
Mel, shall i email about the AOA?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Has your husband filed for divorce?

not yet. He's not communicating with at all.

He is just flapping his gums about the "quickie divorce" just as I suspected. I would get moved out of there and expose him at work.

How far are you from moving?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Mel, shall i email about the AOA?

No, I would focus ALL of your attention on a) staying pitch dark in a Plan B and b) getting the hell out of there as fast as you can.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
He is just flapping his gums about the "quickie divorce" just as I suspected. I would get moved out of there and expose him at work.

How far are you from moving?

Well, he agreed previously not to talk about divorce by 5/24/14, 6month from D-day. Exposing him at work very likely will lead to loss of job, and i could NOT afford to raising two kids just on my salary in CA, let alone, i haven't found a job yet.

I'm still looking for a job, very hard. checking job websites everyday, networking too.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Mel, shall i email about the AOA?

No, I would focus ALL of your attention on a) staying pitch dark in a Plan B and b) getting the hell out of there as fast as you can.

Not even to bust the affair from OW's side? I thought that should always remain a top priority.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
He is just flapping his gums about the "quickie divorce" just as I suspected. I would get moved out of there and expose him at work.

How far are you from moving?

Well, he agreed previously not to talk about divorce by 5/24/14, 6month from D-day. Exposing him at work very likely will lead to loss of job, and i could NOT afford to raising two kids just on my salary in CA, let alone, i haven't found a job yet.

I'm still looking for a job, very hard. checking job websites everyday, networking too.

You do realize that he NEEDS to lose that job, right? He is unlikely to leave it on his own.

I am glad you are looking HARD for a job. you have to get out of there.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Mel, shall i email about the AOA?

No, I would focus ALL of your attention on a) staying pitch dark in a Plan B and b) getting the hell out of there as fast as you can.

Not even to bust the affair from OW's side? I thought that should always remain a top priority.

I think you have exhausted all opportunities other than finding her husband.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You do realize that he NEEDS to lose that job, right? He is unlikely to leave it on his own.

I am glad you are looking HARD for a job. you have to get out of there.

but i thought if we recover, he might be willing to move. He tried about 2 years to get the current job, and it means a lot to him. if i expose the A at his workplace, for one thing, i'm not sure if they would fire him; and he would be sooo angry that he would just file in HI and I don't have a chance to leave with kids.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I think you have exhausted all opportunities other than finding her husband.

would it be too desperate that I fly back and stalk her to her home to talk to OWH?

Last Sat is my DD's birthday, and it kills me she told me it is no fun at that daddy is coming home.

I definitely will try harder to find her husband.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I'm going to send another email to OW, cc her supervisors and friends. Please give me some advice. Shall i cc WH? WH is still adamant about divorce and not committing to M. Shall i wait till once i find out about OWH's contact info (i don't know when that will be though)? Shall I even have a trip back to China myself, and confront her?

These are the key points:

she'll be sued for Alienation of Affection.

She is on the cheaterville.com / shesahomewrecker.com all those websites.

Give her the msg that i'll never give them a quick and quiet divorce.

her continued adultery is ruining WH's life. She will cause WH lose his job, reputation and everything. Absolutely nothing good will ever result of her relationship which is based upon the deceit and hurt of others.

I'll tell my daughter and son she's the one break up my family. She will forever be my enemy, my daughter's, and my son's enemy. Enjoy the 1/3 of year spending time with them (shall i include this?)

MIL is strongly against the affair. She said with tears that if WH continues his A, she will just consider she doesn't have a son and no contact with him once she's back to her home in China.

All our friends know about the A, even the local ones will know if we get a divorce, including WH's colleagues -- . (So far I've exposed to MIL, SIL, WH's father passed away, 10 of WH's close friend, some are mutual friends of OW, many of my close friends, my relatives, OW's employer (managers, VPs),). Still trying to find out OWH and family.

Excerpt from article : "In 2010, a New York Times article reported that since 2006, searches were directed at cheating husbands, corrupt government officials, pornography makers, unpatriotic citizens, journalists who encourage a moderate stance on Tibet and rich people trying to play the system."

Link to article: http://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-what-is-a-human-flesh-search-engine-927645-Jun2013/
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[would it be too desperate that I fly back and stalk her to her home to talk to OWH?

Can you go there and speak to her husband?
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Excerpt from article : "In 2010, a New York Times article reported that since 2006, searches were directed at cheating husbands, corrupt government officials, pornography makers, unpatriotic citizens, journalists who encourage a moderate stance on Tibet and rich people trying to play the system."

Link to article: http://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-what-is-a-human-flesh-search-engine-927645-Jun2013/

Thanks Jedi. This would be like expose the A at major social network media, and requesting ppl help out finding out the OWH, instead of exposing to the friends and family on their FB page. i heard about a few cases of these flesh search engine, the ramifications would be everyone involved get exposed, even to a point what school the kids goes, their pics, every detail. I'm not sure that's worth it.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[would it be too desperate that I fly back and stalk her to her home to talk to OWH?

Can you go there and speak to her husband?

Thanks, Mel. I only know where she works. that would involve some stalking, and no guarantee I will be able to speak to her H. I don't know if i shall bring sb with me for safety purpose. This could be one option if i'm desperate enough.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Mel, shall i email about the AOA?

No, I would focus ALL of your attention on a) staying pitch dark in a Plan B and b) getting the hell out of there as fast as you can.

Mel, is it that based on your 10+ years experience here at MB forum, my WH is one of those kind of waywards that very difficult to kill the A, unless OW and himself have conflicts? It's more like those deeply fogged WW? and the kind of marriage with very low success rate to save. That's why you would ask me to focus on plan b to save myself instead?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Not even to bust the affair from OW's side? I thought that should always remain a top priority.

I think you have exhausted all opportunities other than finding her husband. [/quote]

I haven't done a nuclear exposure, quite some friends in CA don't know about it. I researched on other posts that AOA lawsuits are always recommended to intimidate the OW. I'm bit confused. So are these measures considered non-effective in my case, or are they considered love busters that I shall just avoid for now?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[

I haven't done a nuclear exposure, quite some friends in CA don't know about it. I researched on other posts that AOA lawsuits are always recommended to intimidate the OW. I'm bit confused. So are these measures considered non-effective in my case, or are they considered love busters that I shall just avoid for now?

XPbrain, the OW is in China, though. How can you file an AOA lawsuit against a person in a foreign nation?

I am also confused about your comment about exposure?? I thought the affair had been exposed?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
[

I haven't done a nuclear exposure, quite some friends in CA don't know about it. I researched on other posts that AOA lawsuits are always recommended to intimidate the OW. I'm bit confused. So are these measures considered non-effective in my case, or are they considered love busters that I shall just avoid for now?

XPbrain, the OW is in China, though. How can you file an AOA lawsuit against a person in a foreign nation?

I am also confused about your comment about exposure?? I thought the affair had been exposed?

but my WH's plan is divorce me and marry her and relocate her here. he already applied citizenship and very firm on divorce. after she's here, i can file AOA, and make her life suffer.

i did some level of exposure, but not the "every-body knows" exposure. esp anyone related to his work dosn't know. and my side of friends in ca don't know
You should expose it far and wide.
Is she still on Cheaterville? If so, send the link to all of your family and friends
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
but my WH's plan is divorce me and marry her and relocate her here. he already applied citizenship and very firm on divorce. after she's here, i can file AOA, and make her life suffer.

I gotcha. But I don't agree he is "very firm on divorce." That is just empty talk. A person who is serious about divorce, gets divorce. Talk is cheap.

Quote
i did some level of exposure, but not the "every-body knows" exposure. esp anyone related to his work dosn't know. and my side of friends in ca don't know

If you think it will help. I don't. The only exposure that would have any effect would be his workplace. He can't very well bring her here if he doesn't have a job! The longer the affair goes on, the less likely your marriage will make it. And if your marriage doesn't make it, you won't have the benefit of that job anyway.
Thanks Jedi and Mel. before WH moving out, he already gathered all the divorce documents and filled out some. That's right after I exposed to OW's work place, and he's trying to get a divorce asap.

I think exposure at his workplace should only considered as last resort. He cared about his job so much that he tried to record our conversation to show i was emotional unstable and unfit for child custody to threaten me not to expose to his workplace. He previously was not willing to move out, but I told him if he's not, i would, and i would get help from neighbors, aka, his colleagues. Then he just gave up.

if my first priority is get out of here with kids, i should not expose him to workplace. i know he would file immediately to keep me in HI forever, as revenge.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks Jedi and Mel. before WH moving out, he already gathered all the divorce documents and filled out some. That's right after I exposed to OW's work place, and he's trying to get a divorce asap.

Doesn't sound like he is too serious about divorce. Sounds like a classic wayward who waves around idle threats of divorce but never follows through.

Quote
I think exposure at his workplace should only considered as last resort. He cared about his job so much that he tried to record our conversation to show i was emotional unstable and unfit for child custody to threaten me not to expose to his workplace. He previously was not willing to move out, but I told him if he's not, i would, and i would get help from neighbors, aka, his colleagues. Then he just gave up.

if my first priority is get out of here with kids, i should not expose him to workplace. i know he would file immediately to keep me in HI forever, as revenge.

It is a gamble for sure, but he needs to lose that job if your marriage is going to make it. You realize that, right?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
if my first priority is get out of here with kids, i should not expose him to workplace. i know he would file immediately to keep me in HI forever, as revenge.

There is an argument to be made, that a wayward is usually willing to give up much (including custody of their own children) while in an affair. Because they are selfish and only the affair matters to them.

Personally, I have custody of my 3 kids because my wife was so selfish that she really didnt try to fight for custody.
As her affair has started to melt down after a couple years, she is starting to focus on getting more custody.

That's something to think about.

Ideally, everyone should have been exposed to months ago.

But if you are in Plan Escape to CA then I think you should focus on that: moving, establishing residence and divorce/ custody. You can always reconcile later, after his affair dies a natural death.


Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks Jedi and Mel. before WH moving out, he already gathered all the divorce documents and filled out some. That's right after I exposed to OW's work place, and he's trying to get a divorce asap.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Doesn't sound like he is too serious about divorce. Sounds like a classic wayward who waves around idle threats of divorce but never follows through.


Let me tell you what serious about divorce is:
My wife left the home and spent the night with OM. Within 48 hours, I was in an attorneys office, and filed for divorce. The court received the paperwork within a week from the attorney.

That is being serious about divorce. printing off some papers and leaving them sitting on a table is not.
Thank you guys so much for your responses. That truly means the world to me, esp. not too much family support and not many of my friends understand the MB concept.

based on what you guys said, I'm not sure how serious WH is about divorce. On 3/29, he did promise not to bring up divorce before 5/24, 6 month after d-day. during the conversation with his good friends on 4/19, he repeatedly refused to " give our marriage another chance", and claimed that that was his final decision. From d-day, he has been telling me that he wants a divorce. I don't know if i shall react to what he said, but even if he's not serious about divorce, he wouldn't commit to the marriage either.

he's so deeply in the fog, but OW, since she's been exposed at workplace, hopefully she would clear up more. Then I hope she would terminate the relationship, since i will continue to cause trouble in her life.
THE OW is very shrewd and wily and she wants your husband for herself. If he didn't have a job, he would be useless to her. I believe she sees him as her ticket out of China.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Let me tell you what serious about divorce is:
My wife left the home and spent the night with OM. Within 48 hours, I was in an attorneys office, and filed for divorce. The court received the paperwork within a week from the attorney.

That is being serious about divorce. printing off some papers and leaving them sitting on a table is not.

Bingo! Your husband is not serious about "divorce." He is just using that threat as leverage to continue his affair. A person who is serious has actions to back up their words.
i'm very nervous to do the final round of exposure (I know trickle exposure is not encouraged, but the first 3-4 months i haven't found MB yet...), which will include all my friends in CA, and some local friends in HI, including a couple of WH's colleagues that we hang out a bit. maybe that's second to final. Report to the authorities at WH's workplace will be final round, but i'll leave that as my card to get out of HI.

Also i'm going to send out the letter about AOA and other stuff i mentioned couple of days ago.

I can't wait forever to get the OWH's info. OR shall I wait to get the "nuclear effect"? I understand exposure to OWH will be most effective?
The exposure would be more effective than an AOA letter to OW.
As a general rule, exposure should be "nuclear" and not trickle.
He has probably already started making a cover story for his co workers
Thanks Jedi. I sent out both letter before i left work today. Waiting for the storm. Not sure if he would break plan B.

I talked to one of the colleague' wife a week ago, seemed she didn't know anything. Anyway, not much I could do now. Focus on job hunting.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks Jedi. I sent out both letter before i left work today. Waiting for the storm. Not sure if he would break plan B.

I talked to one of the colleague' wife a week ago, seemed she didn't know anything. Anyway, not much I could do now. Focus on job hunting.
Good job xpbrain!! You did the right thing.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Report to the authorities at WH's workplace will be final round, but i'll leave that as my card to get out of HI.

Why would you wait on this? I think this minimizes your effectiveness at a time when you need all the help you can get.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks Jedi. I sent out both letter before i left work today. Waiting for the storm. Not sure if he would break plan B.

It is up to you to make sure he does not get through. That is not his job. That is yours.
Thanks, Mel. But if that's done now, I really don't have any bargain power to get out of here, if he files D in HI.

sadly, we live in company housing, i can't change locks. He didn't come back last night, instead, he wrote a very angry, all darkest moments from our 15 yrs marriage, words said when we were having fights, to all our friends. he didn't even cc me, not giving me a chance to defend myself. but i kinda warned my friends about this "fog babble".

anyway, this is not going well. nothing could stop him destruct himself.
I thought you were in plan B?
Can you move to temporary accommodations until you can get out of there? Yh do realize the longer you wait the more likely he will be to PREVENT YOU FROM GOING AT ALL?

maybe the best way is to just move out into a new home there? At the very least you could move into a hotel, couldn't you?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Can you move to temporary accommodations until you can get out of there? Yh do realize the longer you wait the more likely he will be to PREVENT YOU FROM GOING AT ALL?

maybe the best way is to just move out into a new home there? At the very least you could move into a hotel, couldn't you?

thanks Mel. i'll try to figure sth. out.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Can you move to temporary accommodations until you can get out of there? Yh do realize the longer you wait the more likely he will be to PREVENT YOU FROM GOING AT ALL?

maybe the best way is to just move out into a new home there? At the very least you could move into a hotel, couldn't you?

thanks Mel. i'll try to figure sth. out.
xp,

You have a good support in CA, correct? Could you move there with them until you can find your own place?
Thanks Mel and BH. It shouldn't be a problem if i just stay at friends' place for several days. most of my friends have kids themselves, and i don't think i should stay with them for too long with two very young children. it would to too much for my friends. I can rent an apt pretty quickly. but without a job, my savings won't last long given the living expenses in CA. i think i'm kinda risk-averse on this matter and i would really freak out after several months without a job.

another thing is, after the exposure, my friend told me WH wrote a very nasty email BCC to them without sending to me, demonizing me and blaming me for everything. he doesn't even want me to defend myself. i sent out the exposure letter using the sample, without to much detail about the A. Shall I email my friends to explain things? Otherwise i would look really bad if anyone believes him.

WH even told my the other friend that im emotional unstable and unfit to take care of both kids. he suggested to them that for the best interest of the kids, we should split the kids, he takes one staying in HI and i take on to CA. I told him a million times that it's unacceptable, but he kept bringing that up.
Remain in plan B, try not to focus on your husbands actions
Thanks Jedi. this round of exposure covered almost 30 friends. and my WH's response to them is an email with maybe twenty sth. bullet points of darkest moments of our past 15 years, and quoting me or someone out of context to defame me. one thing you guys warned me earlier is about my MIL. it really backefired on me this time. MIL passed on the private conversation i had with her to ask her to give some pressure to her son. She was reluctant at the time, and she's mad that i got too many ppl involved. that conversation got pretty emotional and didn't go well. now obviously she told WH the whole thing, and WH quoted me out of context and made me look like the unappreciative and abusive DIL. i think someone with poor psychological endurance might have suicidal thoughts from the email. he bcc-ed everyone and my friends warned me about the letter. but when one of my friend actually forwarded me the email, i was soooooo angry and hurt. but luckily, the exposure also brought lots more support and care. after talking to a couple friends, i felt much better. i think i'm pretty much done about exposure. and WH's email gave me the strongest motivation to get out of here ASAP!!!
Slander is common with these cases.

Just a few days ago, my ex wife posted online that I raped her and neglected her. The list was much longer but the rape accusation upset me because (1) its a lie and (2) its falsely accusing me of a felony crime.

We were divorced 2 years ago! I had to divorce her because she refused to end her affair. She left our family to live with OM (whom she still lives with)...yet now tries to portray it as her struggle to leave an abusive marriage!

Learn a lesson from me: Get out while the going is good! Leave while you can! When they are deep in the affair they will usually sacrifice everything, including kids, for the affair....but after the affair starts to crumble they will try to get the kids back.

If you dont leave soon, you may be unable to leave.
Also, I found most of my wayward wife's family to be useless in battling the affair.
Most of them listened to her wayward excuses
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Also, I found most of my wayward wife's family to be useless in battling the affair.
Most of them listened to her wayward excuses

to my big surprise is that my SIL, herself was a BW and got divorced several years ago. she even believed WH's story about suffering years and years from the horrible marriage, let alone my MIL, supported divorce twice. Then none of them could explain, why given such a bad marriage, we tried to have a kid, then followed by the second one.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Slander is common with these cases.

Just a few days ago, my ex wife posted online that I raped her and neglected her. The list was much longer but the rape accusation upset me because (1) its a lie and (2) its falsely accusing me of a felony crime.

We were divorced 2 years ago! I had to divorce her because she refused to end her affair. She left our family to live with OM (whom she still lives with)...yet now tries to portray it as her struggle to leave an abusive marriage!

Learn a lesson from me: Get out while the going is good! Leave while you can! When they are deep in the affair they will usually sacrifice everything, including kids, for the affair....but after the affair starts to crumble they will try to get the kids back.

If you dont leave soon, you may be unable to leave.

Sorry Jedi you have to go through these, even after you guys got divorced.

i'm really scared if i'm stuck here forever. he's a different person now, and he's capable of doing all the nasty stuff. i'm really torn here. i wish i could just leave without a job!!! but i never ever took such risk before. really hope i could have some luck on the job hunting.

Also, just like the other thread, most of my friends are thinking i'm crazy still trying to save the marriage given the way he is treating me.
i guess i can't do pity party anymore... had a very very down day today. just can't hold myself together during the parent teacher conference this morning. this is really difficult. but to my comfort, DD is doing really great at school, so proud of her. and her 4-year-old check-up also turned out all good!

i'll try to shut out all the negative stuff as much as possible.
shall i pass on DD's 4-year-old checkup result to IM?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i pass on DD's 4-year-old checkup result to IM?

My wife left and I became a single dad...this is what I do:
The bare minimum as required by law.
So, since you don't have court orders, I would send nothing to him.
This is also consistent with Plan B...
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Slander is common with these cases.

Just a few days ago, my ex wife posted online that I raped her and neglected her. The list was much longer but the rape accusation upset me because (1) its a lie and (2) its falsely accusing me of a felony crime.

We were divorced 2 years ago! I had to divorce her because she refused to end her affair. She left our family to live with OM (whom she still lives with)...yet now tries to portray it as her struggle to leave an abusive marriage!

Learn a lesson from me: Get out while the going is good! Leave while you can! When they are deep in the affair they will usually sacrifice everything, including kids, for the affair....but after the affair starts to crumble they will try to get the kids back.

If you dont leave soon, you may be unable to leave.

Sorry Jedi you have to go through these, even after you guys got divorced.

i'm really scared if i'm stuck here forever. he's a different person now, and he's capable of doing all the nasty stuff. i'm really torn here. i wish i could just leave without a job!!! but i never ever took such risk before. really hope i could have some luck on the job hunting.

Also, just like the other thread, most of my friends are thinking i'm crazy still trying to save the marriage given the way he is treating me.

Your friends are concerned for your well being and dont want to see you hurt.
I think Harley would encourage you to ask them not to talk about your marriage or husband anymore and explain to them that you want to focus on yourself and your kids for now.
Every conversation involving your husband causes stress
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i pass on DD's 4-year-old checkup result to IM?
Did he ask for it?

How much time is he seeing the children?
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Your friends are concerned for your well being and dont want to see you hurt.
I think Harley would encourage you to ask them not to talk about your marriage or husband anymore and explain to them that you want to focus on yourself and your kids for now.
Every conversation involving your husband causes stress

Thanks Jedi. I asked my friend not to talk about him anymore. I will not discuss anything other than taking care of the kids with MIL either. I felt a lot of hurt and anger toward her and WH. I treated her so nice, and she just went on pass on my conversation to her son and she or WH twisted my words and quoted me out of context. I'm so angry that I want to sue WH for slander.

I made appointment with a psychiatrist to get ADs, but it's after 3 weeks. I really need sth. to even my emotions now. otherwise i won't be able to accomplish anything here.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i pass on DD's 4-year-old checkup result to IM?
Did he ask for it?

How much time is he seeing the children?

Thanks BH.

NOT yet.

His visitations are TUE and THU 4:30pm - 9 pm, SAT 3pm - 9pm.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i pass on DD's 4-year-old checkup result to IM?

My wife left and I became a single dad...this is what I do:
The bare minimum as required by law.
So, since you don't have court orders, I would send nothing to him.
This is also consistent with Plan B...

Ok. I will send him nothing unless he asks for it. Thanks, Jedi!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
shall i pass on DD's 4-year-old checkup result to IM?
Did he ask for it?

How much time is he seeing the children?

Thanks BH.

NOT yet.

His visitations are TUE and THU 4:30pm - 9 pm, SAT 3pm - 9pm.
Then don't send it to him.

How are you handling the drop offs and pick ups?
WH picks up DD from daycare TUE / THU. SATs picks up both ones from home, MIL helps carry the 6month old in and out of apt. DD walks in and out herself. I'm either not home, or hiding in another room. I try to avoid see him.
Hi guys, i have a question regarding taking ADs. Will the fact that i'm taking ADs cause any problem on my child custody? are there any past cases that divorce lawyers using that against the spouse taking ADs?

My psychiatrist has a cancellation today, so i got in. Prescribed Wellbutrin. But i'm not sure if i should take it.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Hi guys, i have a question regarding taking ADs. Will the fact that i'm taking ADs cause any problem on my child custody? are there any past cases that divorce lawyers using that against the spouse taking ADs?

My psychiatrist has a cancellation today, so i got in. Prescribed Wellbutrin. But i'm not sure if i should take it.
I haven't heard of ADs causing problems on custody.

Dr. Harley recommends Wellbutrin also. Please take it. It should help you feel more clear and not stress as much. I trust that Dr. Harley wouldn't prescribe ADs if it would hurt anyone.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I haven't heard of ADs causing problems on custody.

Dr. Harley recommends Wellbutrin also. Please take it. It should help you feel more clear and not stress as much. I trust that Dr. Harley wouldn't prescribe ADs if it would hurt anyone.

Thanks BH. Yeah, I asked around here about ADs then got recommended Wellbutrin, then i mentioned it to my psychiatrist.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I haven't heard of ADs causing problems on custody.

Dr. Harley recommends Wellbutrin also. Please take it. It should help you feel more clear and not stress as much. I trust that Dr. Harley wouldn't prescribe ADs if it would hurt anyone.

Thanks BH. Yeah, I asked around here about ADs then got recommended Wellbutrin, then i mentioned it to my psychiatrist.
Good. Are you going to take them?

You sound so much more calm since you've gone into a real Plan B. Any more news on moving to CA?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Hi guys, i have a question regarding taking ADs. Will the fact that i'm taking ADs cause any problem on my child custody? are there any past cases that divorce lawyers using that against the spouse taking ADs?

My psychiatrist has a cancellation today, so i got in. Prescribed Wellbutrin. But i'm not sure if i should take it.
I haven't heard of ADs causing problems on custody.

Dr. Harley recommends Wellbutrin also. Please take it. It should help you feel more clear and not stress as much. I trust that Dr. Harley wouldn't prescribe ADs if it would hurt anyone.

I think what causes problems with custody is untreated illness.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Hi guys, i have a question regarding taking ADs. Will the fact that i'm taking ADs cause any problem on my child custody? are there any past cases that divorce lawyers using that against the spouse taking ADs?

My psychiatrist has a cancellation today, so i got in. Prescribed Wellbutrin. But i'm not sure if i should take it.
I haven't heard of ADs causing problems on custody.

Dr. Harley recommends Wellbutrin also. Please take it. It should help you feel more clear and not stress as much. I trust that Dr. Harley wouldn't prescribe ADs if it would hurt anyone.

I think what causes problems with custody is untreated illness.
I agree.
Just try to keep MIL's prying eyes off the meds so she doesn't squeal to your WH that you have them.

If anyone ever questioned your use of them, the only reason you take them is to deal with the stress of your husband cheating on you. To help you focus on caring for the family/children as an abandoned wife.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good. Are you going to take them?

You sound so much more calm since you've gone into a real Plan B. Any more news on moving to CA?

Thanks, BH. Yes, I'm going to take them starting tomorrow morning (it says taking in the morning).

I did feel a lot better after WH moved out after i got used to it. But i constantly feel that i need to do sth. to save my marriage. then i did another round of exposure to all our friends. what really got me was WH's nasty nasty email to all our friends demonizing me as an abusive, emotional unstable wife, and a horrible mother. Then i got very very angry, very emotional, totally broke down at DD's parent-teacher conference, trouble sleeping (after the 4:30am-5am feeding DS, i just can't fall back to sleep, keep thinking about this A and devastation caused the family). So I guess i need to do sth. about it.

I let all my friends know that i'm looking for a job in CA. They referred me to several positions, and i'm very actively looking. i think i'll leave before the end of summer no matter i find a job or not.
Thanks Jedi and reading. i don't wanna lose control of my emotions, esp. in front of kids, and at work. Also, i think i will really need the meds once i start packing. it would be very difficult. better take meds now and it take some time to kick in.
ADs usually take a week or so to start having a positive effect. Some take longer, it depends on the meds and the patient. I would go ahead and start them as soon as possible and continue taking them until you feel much much better and you've been in Plan B long enough to feel less emotional about your marriage.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good. Are you going to take them?

You sound so much more calm since you've gone into a real Plan B. Any more news on moving to CA?

Thanks, BH. Yes, I'm going to take them starting tomorrow morning (it says taking in the morning).

I did feel a lot better after WH moved out after i got used to it. But i constantly feel that i need to do sth. to save my marriage. then i did another round of exposure to all our friends. what really got me was WH's nasty nasty email to all our friends demonizing me as an abusive, emotional unstable wife, and a horrible mother. Then i got very very angry, very emotional, totally broke down at DD's parent-teacher conference, trouble sleeping (after the 4:30am-5am feeding DS, i just can't fall back to sleep, keep thinking about this A and devastation caused the family). So I guess i need to do sth. about it.

I let all my friends know that i'm looking for a job in CA. They referred me to several positions, and i'm very actively looking. i think i'll leave before the end of summer no matter i find a job or not.

When my wife's AP got exposed they went nuts... They threatened to sue me, hit me with harassment,even call Interpol! None of it happened. Now I wish I exposed sooner.

I think the OM knew if he went to the FBI or Interpol they would dig up more dirt on him then they would me if I live to 100!

It was also,suggested that OM put up a post about me based on my wife's comments of aver one year ago! The issue is this would all be a lie...or slander and they could never ever accuse me of cheating..

In teams of AD, they do need to build up in your system to be reflective, so don't get discouraged if the don't work right away...

Good luck!
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks Jedi and reading. i don't wanna lose control of my emotions, esp. in front of kids, and at work. Also, i think i will really need the meds once i start packing. it would be very difficult. better take meds now and it take some time to kick in.

In the whole scheme of things, you are still a young woman and have a life ahead of you.
I divorced at the age of 35, after my wife refused to end her affair.
I can tell you, it does get better.
Since you are from China, I don't know if you are learned in the teachings of Confucius but this is a valley in life, see this through and keep walking forward. You will reach the mountain.
Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
ADs usually take a week or so to start having a positive effect. Some take longer, it depends on the meds and the patient. I would go ahead and start them as soon as possible and continue taking them until you feel much much better and you've been in Plan B long enough to feel less emotional about your marriage.

Thanks LongWayFromHome. i started AD last Friday. Although I started not-so-dark plan B 5 weeks ago, I did another round of exposure which pissed WH off great deal. Guess I'm still emotional toe tap
Originally Posted by Sora
When my wife's AP got exposed they went nuts... They threatened to sue me, hit me with harassment,even call Interpol! None of it happened. Now I wish I exposed sooner.

I think the OM knew if he went to the FBI or Interpol they would dig up more dirt on him then they would me if I live to 100!

It was also,suggested that OM put up a post about me based on my wife's comments of aver one year ago! The issue is this would all be a lie...or slander and they could never ever accuse me of cheating..

In teams of AD, they do need to build up in your system to be reflective, so don't get discouraged if the don't work right away...

Good luck!

Thanks Sora. But I got Plan A all messed up. I never should've done trickle-exposure. Now our friends knew most of the darkest moments in my life, and i'm a bipolar-abusive beatch.. Also, during my so called plan A (i didn't find MB until 3months after Dday), i constantly demanded WH terminate A and commit to M, lots of disrespectful judgements... AO, always had expectations...

even plan b, i'm living with MIL, who supported D twice, meeting WH every day. i just cant find anyone from my family to help me with the kids (see, how screwed up i am, i haven't talked to my parents for almost 10 years, now all my aunts stopped talking to me, since I refused to take their advise on this situation), and i'm just not capable enough to take care kids by myself. i can't even ask mil to leave now, then WH would let everyone know my kind MIL helped me when i'm in need, but i in return kicked her out.

and i just don't have the courage to take advice here: leave WH asap even without a job.

newcomers probably could learn one thing or two from me... avoid my mistakes.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
In the whole scheme of things, you are still a young woman and have a life ahead of you.
I divorced at the age of 35, after my wife refused to end her affair.
I can tell you, it does get better.
Since you are from China, I don't know if you are learned in the teachings of Confucius but this is a valley in life, see this through and keep walking forward. You will reach the mountain.

Thanks Jedi for sticking with me. I will survive, after all i have two very young children all relying on me. yes, a setback might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. i shouldn't be too obsessed about getting this solved asap. i always want to do sth. to help the situation, always wondering why the heck WH is still in the fog? why he's not moving back yet??? why the whole thing so ridiculous... i'm not a very patient person, and this is driving me crazy. but what can i do.. it's not under my control anymore. i can only try to control myself. yeah, i need to work harder on finding jobs!

About Confucius, it's a shame that the young generations in China discarded most of these great assets our ancestors left us, like the other "the art of war" by Sun Tzu mentioned at MB.
Is the MIL an American or foreigner?

Mistakes are opportunities for current and future strength.

Any betrayed spouse is absolutely traumatized by the experience and getting with the Marriage Builders plan is tough in the circumstances.

It requires you to have a plan and not let emotions and other considerations you have always had towards your spouse to follow the plan.

Focus on your plan now.

Focus on how to create a safe environment for yourself and your children

and

you will right your course and succeed whether your marriage ever reconciles or not.

You can be one heck of a woman now and into the future.

That is the gift of surviving an affair with Marriage Builders and following the MB plan.
xp,

There are alot of us that are still with you and we know you're going to hit that personal recovery.

Stay following the plan and you will start to feel better. Don't pay attention to his crazy wayward email to your friends because of course he's going to make you out to be crazy because he is wayward and talks crazy talk.

Have I linked the "craziest things to come out of a Wayward's piehole" thread?

Also, stay with the ADs for a bit, because like LWFH mentioned they take time.

Stay the course, my friend.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Is the MIL an American or foreigner?

she's a foreigner.
Thanks BH and reading. I think I got carried away by that email, and became very emotional this week. I will stay on ADs. I will follow the plan. At this point, I will focus on myself, and kids.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks BH and reading. I think I got carried away by that email, and became very emotional this week. I will stay on ADs. I will follow the plan. At this point, I will focus on myself, and kids.
Good. So what plan B self-care do you have planned for yourself?
the teacher at my DD's preschool talked to me yesterday afternoon. I had a breakdown last tue at the parent-teacher conference, after seeing the presentation about DD's daily life at school. They sort of knew what's going on and i explained a bit more yesterday. The reason the teachers contacted me is they noticed DD is very angry recently and tends to lash out her friends at the daycare, had several incidents hurting her friends, hurting herself, AOs, takes a long time to calm her down. She's only 4 year old.

The teachers are very experienced and have advanced degrees in education. i trust their judgement. they think DD is having a difficult time coping the situation at home. She's too young to adjust well. They suggested me to seek help from pediatric psychologist and referred me some names.

i was shocked. DD seemed to be happy, had her difficult times, but i never expected her would hurt others and hurt herself. and i'm deeply sad. I have an urge to talk to my husband. The A had caused too much trauma to the family, the kids will NOT be ok if we get a divorce. I'm not sure if he will "get it", but from the feedback from our friends talked to him is, 1) he told everyone that he had terminated the relationship with OW, but he still thought our M is beyond repair, reluctant to work on the M; 2) he agreed not to talk about divorce and let me and kids move to CA just like a long-distance relationship. he said sth. silly like he could write down an agreement and get it notarized that he wouldn't get remarried if im not remarried; 3) he spent a lot of time with his mom, taking her to see doctors and stuff (i'm not sure if it's shifting focus or sth.)

So I suspect the A might ended, of course i don't have proof. The OW replied my the other email about AOA lawsuits that she already deleted all the contact info of my WH, and since my exposure to her workplace in end March they don't have any contact. Now based on my daughter's situation, i am very tempted to have WH back home and do another round of Plan A, as suggested by Dr. Harley on the radio show. I'm taking ADs for about a week now. if emotionally i can't take it living with WH or not doing plan A efficiently, I plan to move to CA before finding a job. if things don't work out, i'll move before Aug. but i have to admit that i'm anxious about his moving back.

i haven't talked to WH about this yet. i wanted to see his reaction after the teachers talk to him this afternoon. If he wants to move back and work on M for DD's sake, I'd welcome him. IF not, i've prepared myself that he would think it's me caused all the problems and we should just find a therapist for DD instead of working on M. I might just ask him to move back, and not talk about EPs and A.

Hope i can get some advice here. it really breaks my heart seeing my DD struggling.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good. So what plan B self-care do you have planned for yourself?

Thanks BH. going to gym a couple times a weeks, watching movie on Sat. during his visitation time. spend time with kids. talk to my close friends when i feel down.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Now based on my daughter's situation, i am very tempted to have WH back home and do another round of Plan A, as suggested by Dr. Harley on the radio show. I'm taking ADs for about a week now. if emotionally i can't take it living with WH or not doing plan A efficiently, I plan to move to CA before finding a job. if things don't work out, i'll move before Aug. but i have to admit that i'm anxious about his moving back.

i haven't talked to WH about this yet. i wanted to see his reaction after the teachers talk to him this afternoon. If he wants to move back and work on M for DD's sake, I'd welcome him. IF not, i've prepared myself that he would think it's me caused all the problems and we should just find a therapist for DD instead of working on M. I might just ask him to move back, and not talk about EPs and A.

Hope i can get some advice here. it really breaks my heart seeing my DD struggling.

You are about to make a MAJOR MISTAKE if you plan on inviting him back into the home.
You reference what Dr. Harley recommended and I dont think he would advise you to do this at this time.
When you enter Plan B, there is no contact until the affair is ended and he is willing to never see or speak to her again.

If you think you are an emotional wreck now...wait until you have an active adulterer living with you.
I dont know how his presence could help your daughter in the least
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
You are about to make a MAJOR MISTAKE if you plan on inviting him back into the home.
You reference what Dr. Harley recommended and I dont think he would advise you to do this at this time.
When you enter Plan B, there is no contact until the affair is ended and he is willing to never see or speak to her again.

If you think you are an emotional wreck now...wait until you have an active adulterer living with you.
I dont know how his presence could help your daughter in the least

Dr Harley advised plan a only for short-term, before i move to CA as long-term plan, since he thinks it would take WH quite a while to figure out family will be his better option.

my thinking is based on the assumption that he did terminated relationship with OW, and DD's situation might give him a big dose of reality, how his A is affecting his own kids. Then he would be willing to commit to the family, and DD would benefit from that while seeking professional help.

If NOT, i'm just doing plan A, no LB, just show him kids and me could be a better option, which might save us the permanent divorce in the future. i was afraid that i didn't do a proper plan a and lots of LBs, coz directly to plan b usu. dont work out.
I'm very sorry to say that waywards don't care how much their affair is hurting anyone. They don't care how much it hurts the betrayed spouse. They don't care about the devastating effects on the children. All they care about it is the affair.

Even IF your H did end his affair, he hasn't returned to you on bended knee agreeing to the conditions of recovery, has he?

If not, you're better off in Plan B until such time as he agrees to a plan of recovery with you.

It's really shocking when you understand how the adulterer will justify all the hurt and devastation. Your husband is operating totally on emotion, no logic.
My wayward wife heard about problems our son was having in school and said he will be just fine and i was over reacting to the reports from the school counselor.

They compartmentalize any problems that occur due to their behavior to rationalize that what they are doing is still the right thing, according to them and their new infidelity supportive friends.

LTL
Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
I'm very sorry to say that waywards don't care how much their affair is hurting anyone. They don't care how much it hurts the betrayed spouse. They don't care about the devastating effects on the children. All they care about it is the affair.

Even IF your H did end his affair, he hasn't returned to you on bended knee agreeing to the conditions of recovery, has he?

If not, you're better off in Plan B until such time as he agrees to a plan of recovery with you.

It's really shocking when you understand how the adulterer will justify all the hurt and devastation. Your husband is operating totally on emotion, no logic.

Thank you, LongWayFromHome. He has NOT agreed to commit to our M. Looks like again, it is my wishful thinking that he ended the A and the fog should begin to lift, and he could think what's best for kids. I don't know when I could stop having expectations.
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
My wayward wife heard about problems our son was having in school and said he will be just fine and i was over reacting to the reports from the school counselor.

They compartmentalize any problems that occur due to their behavior to rationalize that what they are doing is still the right thing, according to them and their new infidelity supportive friends.

LTL

Thanks LTL. I guess my WH could conveniently blame me being impatient or not nice to our kids. when can he ever get out of this ridiculous state of mind?

now i'm prepared for another disappointment.
Could the vets here direct me to a few cases like mine, very fogged WH, never remorseful, unwilling to work on M? I'd like to learn a bit more about the time frame, how to react, what to expect. Thanks a lot!
You are still in HI? TEEF

Sorry to read about DD but I would not let WH back in the house. I would get to CA ASAP. DD may do better there as well...you see how nasty your WH can be. If you left and he filed D, he still has to serve you. You can avoid being served and file for separation in CA.

It's been two months since you spoke of going to CA. You don't need to Plan A WH. He doesn't care and will use your children to punish you.
Originally Posted by black_raven
You are still in HI? TEEF

Sorry to read about DD but I would not let WH back in the house. I would get to CA ASAP. DD may do better there as well...you see how nasty your WH can be. If you left and he filed D, he still has to serve you. You can avoid being served and file for separation in CA.

It's been two months since you spoke of going to CA. You don't need to Plan A WH. He doesn't care and will use your children to punish you.

I'm looking for a job in CA. Without a job, I can't support myself and 2 kids, and the living expenses there are very high. I think WH would not agree we move over there without a job. And with 2 kids, i can't really live with a friend, which will cause too much trouble for them. I don't have any relatives in the states.
Have you tried using a recruiter or placement agency?

You don't have to support your children single handly, xp. A CA court can order support and require that your WH's employer to withhold support from his payck. You do not need his permission to leave either...this was discussed long ago when you were worried about shipping your household goods and vehicle there. Yes it would be ideal if you had a job lined up, but look at where you are today. Moving is never going to be easy.

I fear if you stay there much longer, you will be stuck because D will be filed, you will have no support system, a MIL who is untrustworthy, and are being made out to be a crazy, unfit, psycho mom.
Thanks, black_raven. My line of work doesn't work very effectively with a recruiter or placement agency. I asked many of my friends in the same field to refer me, which i think might have a better chance.

So if i move to CA without a job, i use our savings to pay the rent and living expenses. I need to find a preschool for my DD. She's 4, and need to learn stuff and social with kids, so she can't just stay with me at home. Then that's the daycare expense. All together could be one person's paycheck. WH needs to pay for his side of life here too. I'll look for jobs at the same time. but what if i can't find one in 6 months, or a year? with the A, separation, relocation, and taking care of kids by myself, now the financial stress... i don't know how I can survive.
Take a look to see what you may be eligible for...there is a program specifically for 4 yr old pre-schoolers:

http://bayareafamilychildcare.com/provider-directory/

http://www.sfhsa.org/ChildCare.htm

You are not just limited to one area or one state...or one line of work. We can "what if" your situation to death so "what if" you stay???? And I don't care about your WH paying for his side of life there. He isn't worried about yours.
Originally Posted by black_raven
Take a look to see what you may be eligible for...there is a program specifically for 4 yr old pre-schoolers:

http://bayareafamilychildcare.com/provider-directory/

http://www.sfhsa.org/ChildCare.htm

You are not just limited to one area or one state...or one line of work. We can "what if" your situation to death so "what if" you stay???? And I don't care about your WH paying for his side of life there. He isn't worried about yours.

Thank you so much, black_raven. I looked at the 4 yr old preschool program, and it's in the SF city specifically. But I'll look for jobs in the city too. my support system is in one area though, otherwise i should just stay here do a dark plan b.

what if i stay and he files...... i'll move before August.
That link is for SF specifically but each city/county should have some equivalent since it is a state sponsored program.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/cd/op/cdprograms.asp

One more:

http://www.chs-ca.org/for-parents/

And you're welcome.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Could the vets here direct me to a few cases like mine, very fogged WH, never remorseful, unwilling to work on M? I'd like to learn a bit more about the time frame, how to react, what to expect. Thanks a lot!

Sometimes they dont end.
My wife started her affair in 2011 and they are still living together!
I have custody of our kids and am divorced.
I've lived with an active wayward and after a mere 2 or 3 months, I was physically and emotionally beat. I wouldnt wish that on anyone
Thanks again, black_raven and Jedi.

Just as expected, teacher told me WH was trying to relate DD's issue to what happened at home, and agreed that DD might need counseling. The teachers were trying to focus on DD, and didn't get too much into our relationship issue. But the teacher's impression is he just wants to move forward. The well-being of the kids are nothing to him compared to his own happiness.

made appointment for DD for counseling.
self-care: went to 24 fitness, did some yoga. it's only the second time i tried yoga smile. Also tried 20mins of zumba.

have been losing weight, which is great. i haven't taken good care of myself for a long time. esp. physical attractiveness might be a top EN form many men.
Hi just a question..

Are you in Plan B, but your WS still lives with you?
Originally Posted by Sora
Hi just a question..

Are you in Plan B, but your WS still lives with you?

plan b. i live with my mil, since i have a 4yr old and 6month old to take care of, and work full time. WH lives in his office for now.

smile Sora, cheer up, at least, you are in better position than me smile
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
self-care: went to 24 fitness, did some yoga. it's only the second time i tried yoga smile. Also tried 20mins of zumba.

have been losing weight, which is great. i haven't taken good care of myself for a long time. esp. physical attractiveness might be a top EN form many men.
Way to go xpbrain1!!!!

Now this is the way to be a Plan B queen!!!

How are you feeling? Sleeping?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Way to go xpbrain1!!!!

Now this is the way to be a Plan B queen!!!

How are you feeling? Sleeping?

Thanks, BH. i feel ok, but kinda anxious. With DD's situation (poor adjustment to our separation), I felt strong resentment toward WH, and got less impatient with him.

After the recent exposure, many of our friends reached out to us. Some talked to WH a lot. WH admitted to them that he broke up with OW, but doesn't wanna break the status quo with me. Quote: he's scared to come home. Not sure it's because of his unwillingness to work on the marriage, or he hates to accept the consequences, and scared that I would chew him out, or the difficulty of repair the marriage. Basically he chose to escape again.

What shall i do now, besides looking for jobs in CA? Is it i could only wait till he figures out that he wants to commit to our family? What if he lose the motivation to work on the marriage?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Is it i could only wait till he figures out that he wants to commit to our family? What if he lose the motivation to work on the marriage?

Let him return to you hat in hand if that moment comes
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Is it i could only wait till he figures out that he wants to commit to our family? What if he lose the motivation to work on the marriage?

Let him return to you hat in hand if that moment comes

is that absolutely required? I do agree that his willingness to do whatever it takes to save our marriage will make things a lot easier, and would save a lot of my resentment. But he is still quite far from that and my patience is wearing off.
Yes, it is required.
Dr. Harley has stated this on his radio show
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Is it i could only wait till he figures out that he wants to commit to our family? What if he lose the motivation to work on the marriage?

Let him return to you hat in hand if that moment comes

is that absolutely required? I do agree that his willingness to do whatever it takes to save our marriage will make things a lot easier, and would save a lot of my resentment. But he is still quite far from that and my patience is wearing off.
If he doesn't return "hat in hand" then you will be facing a false recovery.

A false recovery can be more painful than an original Dday.
Voice of experience, here:

Not only is a FR (false recovery) much more painful, it is also much harder to recover from.

Don't set yourself up for one. Keep that bar raised high...
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Is it i could only wait till he figures out that he wants to commit to our family? What if he lose the motivation to work on the marriage?

Let him return to you hat in hand if that moment comes

is that absolutely required? I do agree that his willingness to do whatever it takes to save our marriage will make things a lot easier, and would save a lot of my resentment. But he is still quite far from that and my patience is wearing off.


Yes, it is absolutely required. My xWH was willing to do all the EPs and he was fine with it at first. I thought we were working through the withdrawal okay. After about a month and a half he was frustrated with all my "rules" and said I was controlling him and trying to turn him into a new person. He returned to his old ways, endless LBs, and by the time I asked him to leave I didn't feel any love for him at all.

If your goal is to save your marriage then you should stay in Plan B until he is serious about recovery. I didn't do Plan B until 6 months after D-day because I didn't know about MB at the time. By the time I was in Plan B I was sick of waiting for him to commit to me. I now feel like the FR was a waste of time, but it also allowed me to accept that divorce was the best option given my situation.

Stay in Plan B as long as you possibly can. If you allow him to come home before he can meet all EPs, he will drain your love bank completely and your resentment will grow.
Thanks guys for all your replies. WH is far from "hat in hand" frown

yesterday MIL told me WH wanted to have a short trip with MIL and DD in early June, just Fri to Sun, but they wanted me to take care of DS - 7month as if i'm the baby-sitter and they, the family could have a relaxing vacation. I'm not sure how to react. I wanted to tell WH through IM that either take DS with them, or leave without both kids. But i don't know if I should not make more love bank withdrawal, since Dr. Harley mentioned in the radio show that i should do a short-term plan a before leave for CA for long-term plan b.

Also, I read on the forum that Steve Harley is pretty good at getting reluctant spouse on board for the MB program. Are we at the right stage to talk to him yet?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Thanks guys for all your replies. WH is far from "hat in hand" frown

yesterday MIL told me WH wanted to have a short trip with MIL and DD in early June, just Fri to Sun, but they wanted me to take care of DS - 7month as if i'm the baby-sitter and they, the family could have a relaxing vacation. I'm not sure how to react. I wanted to tell WH through IM that either take DS with them, or leave without both kids. But i don't know if I should not make more love bank withdrawal, since Dr. Harley mentioned in the radio show that i should do a short-term plan a before leave for CA for long-term plan b.

Also, I read on the forum that Steve Harley is pretty good at getting reluctant spouse on board for the MB program. Are we at the right stage to talk to him yet?

Regarding Plan A, that window has closed. You already did Plan A and are now in Plan B. You do not return to plan A. You can email Dr. Harley for clarification if needed, but I doubt that he would advise you to return to Plan A at this time.

As for Steve Harley, you can be ready for his services when WH returns to you hat-in-hand.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Regarding Plan A, that window has closed. You already did Plan A and are now in Plan B. You do not return to plan A. You can email Dr. Harley for clarification if needed, but I doubt that he would advise you to return to Plan A at this time.

As for Steve Harley, you can be ready for his services when WH returns to you hat-in-hand.

Thanks, Jedi. I emailed follow-up question to Dr. Harley regarding short-term plan a that it may take months before i can move and if i should have him back that early, his response was :"It depends. If your mental health continues to deteriorate, it may be too long. One the other hand, knowing you have a plan may help you put your husband�s bad behavior in perspective, and it may not affect you the same way." . So it kinda bothers me that listening to Sora's radio session that Dr. Harley explained plan a as besides the exposure, you shall try your best to deposit love units, avoid love buster. but my plan a was tons of love busters. and now my plan b, is not even plan b, still thinking everyday how to save my marriage. it just defeated the purpose of i taking care of two little ones all by myself. i know the best option is leave for CA right now!!! but without a job, it just sounds so unrealistic!!!

the thing is now i feel that WH has no intention return to home. is it just my fear and emotion got into me?
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I wanted to tell WH through IM that either take DS with them, or leave without both kids.

Yes. Plan B is not catering to your WH.
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I wanted to tell WH through IM that either take DS with them, or leave without both kids.

Yes. Plan B is not catering to your WH.

Thanks, black_raven. I'll do that.
Originally Posted by xpbrain
the thing is now i feel that WH has no intention return to home. is it just my fear and emotion got into me?
Yes it is.

Just keep following Plan B and keep looking for a job and trying to move to CA.

not really much to update.

but, during the drop-off last night, DD was crying and ask WH why everytime he has to leave. then DD came in and ask if she can spent more time with daddy. i agreed and she went out staying with WH for a bit longer. this whole thing lasted more than half an hour. WH was so cruel and cold, even DD was crying and begging for him to stay, he chose to leave. later on, DD told me WH told her he didn't break up the family. this is just hopeless...

DS was teething and had high fever for 3 days last week. he woke up every hour at night and it was tough. and i was kinda upset that during non-visitation times, MIL always met WH and brought back some stuff, like fruit or cake DD likes, and told her your father bought this for you and stuff... then this monday, at 5am, probably becoz lack of sleep, or it got to a point i couldn't take it anymore, i had a fight with MIL. first time in 4 months. i bet WH would say, see, i know you could pretend to be nice to my mother for long. anyway, MIL and I tried to make up the next day, after all, if we try to manage to live under the same roof, it won't work if we keep fighting.

also got a call from a prospective employer, but the position they are hiring is only contract job, after the project ends, if no other projects, one might be out of job, and no health insurance and other benefits. i don't think it's a match for me, will keep looking.

Well, I don't know if I'm taking the right steps. And I know i've been indecisive and hesitating for a long time. I did look very hard for a job, but nothing comes up yet. Probably we could only hear crickets chirping in this thread, but i know that's for a reason. i didn't quite follow you guys' advice, but i'm too emotionally attached, too afraid of losing my marriage, and too scared of the drastic change me and my kids might be facing after we move to CA. Anyway, here's the update:

On Sunday, 6/8/14, I told WH i will move to CA with kids by the end of July, with or with not a job in CA. Will quit my current job by the end of June. I'll spend a couple of weeks in July in CA myself to locate apt and preschool for DD. So from 6/8 i'll start 3-4 weeks of Plan A as suggested by Dr. Harley during radio show, before moving to CA.

WH is still pretty fogged out.

1. He doesn't want to have a divorce now, but he doesn't want to work on the marriage either. He's okay with we moving to CA, and will continue to support us during the time that i don't have a job. We haven't talked about how long that would be though.

2. He doesn't even want to move home. Looks like he's quite contented with his care-free life in his office. He suggested he will drop off / pick up DD and make dinner for us, to free me some time for my work in the transition period. Then i told him i got cold and DS is very fussy at night. I need some good sleep to recover. He negotiated that he could stay home at night on Tue, Wed, and Thu from 11pm to 5am to look after son. He said before he's scared of staying at home, and he's scared of facing me. The minute he saw i'm calling him on the cell he's heart was pounding out of chest.

3. He's still angry about my exposure. He's very concerned that I would expose him at his work to ruin his reputation. That seemed to be what he only cares about now. Quote from him, he really hates this MB program. he and OW haven't made contact since end of March, when I exposed OW at her workplace. -- i can't verify this. He wouldn't agree to follow EPs.

4. We had some together time yesterday with the whole family. Took a walk after dinner. WH is very careful around me, not too much talk, awkward sometimes. I'm just trying to avoid love busters for now.

From my side, I know I need to follow through the moving plan. But my friends have been telling me it's just too risky to move without a job. And WH's showing some signs of backing down, like not forcing me to divorce. WH has been telling everyone that has reached out to him that he and OW stopped contacts, well, OW backed out. Staying in HI will provide my kids, esp DD a stable environment and she'll have regular visit to her father. DD has a great preschool here, and she loves the teachers and friends so much. And my closest friend told me there might not be that much support as i imagined in CA, as ppl have their own life. Most friends have a very busy life with full time job and young children. I'd be better off staying in HI, since when my kids get sick, their father will be the one I can ask for help. also, i have a very stable job in HI.

I know WH's unremorseful and unwilling to commit to marriage, yet. But, would it because it's just a couple of months after the exposure. Dr Harley also said it would take DH quite a while to realize his marriage with me is his only escape from continuing depression. If I move to CA, it would just create another obstacle for our marriage. So would it be more feasible that I have a dark plan B in HI, just me living with kids, without MIL, or I ask help from my relatives? I have a new female friend in HI who's very supportive and we often have playdates on Sunday. My neighbors are also very helpful.

I'm torn. I know there's a chance WH would never want to recover the marriage. and I just can't help having these expectations that he should return to home soon. WH is also working in an environment that easy to have As without EP.

Please give me some insights. i'm scared that i might be making a big mistake in life. Instead of moving to CA, shall i have a very dark plan b in HI? I really appreciate your input.
the thing is after the exposure, even after they ended the contacts (well, very likely, he's not a good liar), what if he still doesn't want to commit to the marriage?

i also heard on radio that after ppl have separation, it's just very difficult to get them back together again. and from reading the stories here, the longer the separation, the less chance to recover. i don't know what to do now.
I don't think Dr. Harley would have supported you moving from Plan B back into Plan A.
His suggestion was made prior to Plan B and he does not advocate long Plan A's.
So, two days ago you went back into Plan A?
I hope you are prepared for an emotional roller coaster
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
So, two days ago you went back into Plan A?
I hope you are prepared for an emotional roller coaster

Thanks for your reply, Jedi. yes, i'm in plan a now, although WH doesn't even wanna move back. I think i never had a true plan B. I did exposure during plan b, i asked friends to talk to him, and I have MIL to help the 8month old. I always have expectations. everytime i try sth, i'm expecting the good result, and i'm always disappointed. Even looking for job is not successful, yet.

i'll have ADs to help me. i'm just lost. it's not working, or i'm not patient enough, or i'm doing it the wrong way.

i'm trying to schedule a time with Steve Harely.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Staying in HI will provide my kids, esp DD a stable environment and she'll have regular visit to her father. DD has a great preschool here, and she loves the teachers and friends so much. And my closest friend told me there might not be that much support as i imagined in CA, as ppl have their own life. Most friends have a very busy life with full time job and young children. [i]I'd be better off staying in HI, since when my kids get sick, their father will be the one I can ask for help. also, i have a very stable job in HI.[/i]

Don't expect a wayward man to be a good influence on your daughter.
Adultery literally rots their soul and changes them.

I also wouldn't count on him helping you raise your daughter.

Many of us who have divorced have no contact with our ex spouses and have seen them change from a loving parent to a selfish adult that cares little for their own children.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Don't expect a wayward man to be a good influence on your daughter.
Adultery literally rots their soul and changes them.

I also wouldn't count on him helping you raise your daughter.

Many of us who have divorced have no contact with our ex spouses and have seen them change from a loving parent to a selfish adult that cares little for their own children.

this is just too depressing...
Depressing, but a cold hard possible reality.

My Wayward Wife has now gone exactly 499 days since she has seen or even spoken to our 11 year old son.

She is living with Affair Partner #4 or #5 and has been for the past 1 3/4 years.

Her apartment is only 9.4 miles from our home.

There is absolutely No Excuse. It must be who she became since she had her 1st Affair and also relapsed after 10 years of sobriety in AA.

You can not expect a Wayward to be the once responsible and loving spouse or parent that they were prior to their affair(s).
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Depressing, but a cold hard possible reality.

My Wayward Wife has now gone exactly 499 days since she has seen or even spoken to our 11 year old son.

She is living with Affair Partner #4 or #5 and has been for the past 1 3/4 years.

Her apartment is only 9.4 miles from our home.

There is absolutely No Excuse. It must be who she became since she had her 1st Affair and also relapsed after 10 years of sobriety in AA.

You can not expect a Wayward to be the once responsible and loving spouse or parent that they were prior to their affair(s).

So sorry for what you've been through, LearnedTooLate. i just don't know how to raise a 4 yr old and 8 months old all by myself while working full time. maybe i should stay at home and take care of my son until he's older.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I'll spend a couple of weeks in July in CA myself to locate apt and preschool for DD.

Do not leave your children if you go to CA. You will likely be wasting your time and money...only to return to HI and WH will refuse to let you take the kids. After all the crap he has put YOUR DAUGHTER through (cold, heartless, and manipulative) I would NOT leave her with him for even a few days much less weeks. That sounds crazy to me.
Originally Posted by black_raven
Do not leave your children if you go to CA. You will likely be wasting your time and money...only to return to HI and WH will refuse to let you take the kids. After all the crap he has put YOUR DAUGHTER through (cold, heartless, and manipulative) I would NOT leave her with him for even a few days much less weeks. That sounds crazy to me.

as suggested by one of our counselor, we'll have an agreement that i go to CA just to set up things and will return soon, not abandoning my children, and get the agreement notarized.

but bringing my 4 yr old DD with me, would make the apt hunting, purchasing necessary furniture, and setting up home quite impossible.
Originally Posted by black_raven
Do not leave your children if you go to CA. You will likely be wasting your time and money...only to return to HI and WH will refuse to let you take the kids. After all the crap he has put YOUR DAUGHTER through (cold, heartless, and manipulative) I would NOT leave her with him for even a few days much less weeks. That sounds crazy to me.

i don't know, maybe i got too caught up in the middle of things. is my WH that bad now? "cold, heartless, and manipulative". it's a shock actually to see these words.
Don't listen to the counselor.

Do not leave your DD even to set things up.

We at MB would rather you stay in HI than leave your child for even a long weekend.

Only go to CA if you take the children and have someone reliable and respectable there agreeing to care for them while you hunt for a job and home.
Originally Posted by reading
Don't listen to the counselor.

Do not leave your DD even to set things up.

We at MB would rather you stay in HI than leave your child for even a long weekend.

Only go to CA if you take the children and have someone reliable and respectable there agreeing to care for them while you hunt for a job and home.

Really? I know not to trust WH, but he agreed to let me take the kids to CA. if he changed mind, he could just file for D at HI right away. Then I would have to stay, and fight for the custody.
He agreed to let you take them to CA
but
if you leave for CA without the children
you risk
him filing and making you go back to HI or him becoming custodial parent (his mom IS their child care provider after all).
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by black_raven
Do not leave your children if you go to CA. You will likely be wasting your time and money...only to return to HI and WH will refuse to let you take the kids. After all the crap he has put YOUR DAUGHTER through (cold, heartless, and manipulative) I would NOT leave her with him for even a few days much less weeks. That sounds crazy to me.

as suggested by one of our counselor, we'll have an agreement that i go to CA just to set up things and will return soon, not abandoning my children, and get the agreement notarized.

but bringing my 4 yr old DD with me, would make the apt hunting, purchasing necessary furniture, and setting up home quite impossible.

The counselor isnt an attorney.
I would not do anything without first consulting a family law attorney.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
i just don't know how to raise a 4 yr old and 8 months old all by myself while working full time. maybe i should stay at home and take care of my son until he's older.

You could probably qualify for state aid and work part time.
You may need to do that untl the child is older.
xpbrain,

The reason you are feeling so lost and depressed is because of the contact with your WH. It is an unhealthy environment to be in contact with him.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by black_raven
Do not leave your children if you go to CA. You will likely be wasting your time and money...only to return to HI and WH will refuse to let you take the kids. After all the crap he has put YOUR DAUGHTER through (cold, heartless, and manipulative) I would NOT leave her with him for even a few days much less weeks. That sounds crazy to me.

i don't know, maybe i got too caught up in the middle of things. is my WH that bad now? "cold, heartless, and manipulative". it's a shock actually to see these words.

Why are you shocked? Those are the words YOU have used, xp. On May 30th you wrote:

"WH was so cruel and cold, even DD was crying and begging for him to stay, he chose to leave. later on, DD told me WH told her he didn't break up the family. this is just hopeless..."

and you have said such things before. If you don't even remember what YOU said, don't you think that is a problem and says a lot about what you are subjecting yourself to?
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by black_raven
Do not leave your children if you go to CA. You will likely be wasting your time and money...only to return to HI and WH will refuse to let you take the kids. After all the crap he has put YOUR DAUGHTER through (cold, heartless, and manipulative) I would NOT leave her with him for even a few days much less weeks. That sounds crazy to me.

as suggested by one of our counselor, we'll have an agreement that i go to CA just to set up things and will return soon, not abandoning my children, and get the agreement notarized.

but bringing my 4 yr old DD with me, would make the apt hunting, purchasing necessary furniture, and setting up home quite impossible.

The counselor isnt an attorney.
I would not do anything without first consulting a family law attorney.

x2

A notarized agreement like that likely means as much as the paper it is written on...nada.
Thank you all for the support and guidance. Sometimes I thought WH is still the old loving and caring husband i had before. it's difficult to accept who he is now, since DDay his actions surprised me all the time. Actually i was quite confident that WH would be remorseful and begging for a second chance before i confronted him on DDay.

Anyway, the moving decision might not be well thought-out. I called Steve Harley yesterday morning. His direction is try to make WH to call him. He gave me some ideas on how to do it, and told me to take it as a project. Based on WH's current reaction, which is he wanted to have minimal interaction with me, I'm not sure if he would be interested. But Steve did ask me to keep trying. I didn't do it yesterday, since I was reluctant.

i'm at the end of the rope. this is the last chance of my M.
Does Steve know you're in Plan B?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Does Steve know you're in Plan B?

Yeah, I told him the timeline of the whole thing.
if WH is still in love with OW, although MAYBE no active contact for a couple of months (no way to verify NC, no EP in place), doesn't it mean the A is still alive?

had conversation with WH, and he said he couldn't live with me right now. he chose to live in his office, or find a apt, although he can barely afford another apt. at the end of the conversation, i mentioned he could give Steve Harley a call. He said sure, actually he meant he wanted to tell Steve how much he hated the program. Anyway, i will set up the appointment next week.
Some updates. Hope to get your insights, dear MBers. Thanks so much.

WH talked to Steve on Tue. I called him to ask how it was going. He was very reluctant to talk to me, basically he's like trying to Plan B ME! Anyway, he told me he talked to Steve calmly for about an hour, and asked me to talk to Steve to know more detail.

I had another session with Steve on THU. Steve told me WH believed I wouldn't change (I very much wanted to ask WH, actually I did ask, that if he believed grownups can't change their characters and behaviors, does that idea only apply to me, or apply to him also, (that once a cheater always a cheater? i didn't say this part to him). He decided that he would be better off living by himself. WH also told Steve he's very disappointed of the end of his relationship with OW. He's willing to explore the MB idea Steve presented, and do some research (well, I doubt if he would do it).

Steve asked me to continue to live with MIL, and avoid love busters, mainly angry outburst, and DJs, and demonstrate my ability to change to MIL, since WH is plan Bing me. I also need to fill out love buster questionnaire and have WH's perspective on it.

After going through this for almost a year from Dday, I feel avoiding LBs is so difficult, esp. that I have so much resentment toward WH. But I d/l kindle version of love buster book to read anyway. But i'm gonna take it slow, because I really don't want to talk to him while he's acting like he's the victim and hates so much to talk to me.

Another thing is, previously before talking to Steve, I wanted MIL to live with WH and I'll take care of kids by myself. We just discussed some options last Friday, and WH's like can't wait to find an apt for them and already got one now. He told DD he would have her overnight if she wants and if I agrees last night, but during the day, I confirmed through email to him that we will keep the living arrangements status quo, which is no overnight with him at all. Of coz when I told DD she's not going to live with Daddy in his apt, she got very upset / mad and almost cried. I really hate that he tried to bond with DD and say things to confuse her. Then I wrote an email to him, ask him to stop confusing kids. I found my emails always try to educate him in a certain way, I had to proof read every time to delete those lines I might regret to send him. I'm not sure if it's a love buster.

Also financial wise, renting another apt will cause more burden to our current situation. I'm tempted to write him an email to tell him this apt rental should not be spent with joint marital asset, and it should be part of the cost he wasted for his choosing independent single life. I guess it might be a love buster? how do i bring it up without being disrespectful?

I really need some help to follow through Steve's plan here. Obviously my instincts/emotions are getting in the way. Now when I need to do sth for this M, I started to hate it, and resent WH. But when I actually have to move away, I'll chicken away. in dilemma.

Thank you so much for all the support and help.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
not really much to update.

DS was teething and had high fever for 3 days last week. he woke up every hour at night and it was tough. and i was kinda upset that during non-visitation times, MIL always met WH and brought back some stuff, like fruit or cake DD likes, and told her your father bought this for you and stuff... then this monday, at 5am, probably becoz lack of sleep, or it got to a point i couldn't take it anymore, i had a fight with MIL. first time in 4 months. i bet WH would say, see, i know you could pretend to be nice to my mother for long. anyway, MIL and I tried to make up the next day, after all, if we try to manage to live under the same roof, it won't work if we keep fighting.

Steve also pointed I need to apologize for my angry outburst and disrespectful behavior toward MIL. I apologized in the email I wrote to WH yesterday and asked him to convey the apology. I know I might need to say it to her face to face, but I just can't right now. It's just difficult as she's the no.1 supporter to WH, no matter what he does.
What plan are you in? You're obviously not in plan B, correct?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
What plan are you in? You're obviously not in plan B, correct?

Thanks for your reply, BrainHurts. I'm in Plan A now. Steve directed me to demonstrate to my MIL and WH that I could change, since WH might have ended A, but believed I would never change and he would be better off living by himself.
WH thinks my short temper and lack of caring to him after the first child led to his A.
There are reasons for A but never excuses.

These are areas you could work on for your personal growth but will be part of your Plan A since you have been advised to do Plan A
Originally Posted by happyfuture66
There are reasons for A but never excuses.

These are areas you could work on for your personal growth but will be part of your Plan A since you have been advised to do Plan A

Thanks for your reply happyfuture66. I do need to control my AO. even not for WH, my kids could benefit from it a lot, so do my future relationships.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
What plan are you in? You're obviously not in plan B, correct?

Thanks for your reply, BrainHurts. I'm in Plan A now. Steve directed me to demonstrate to my MIL and WH that I could change, since WH might have ended A, but believed I would never change and he would be better off living by himself.
I saw you posted on another thread that you're in Plan B. What plan are you in?
Hi BrainHurts smile Thanks for asking me. Steve suggested me to remain contact with WH, fill out the love buster questionnaire and ask for WH's advice on it, and prove to MIL that I could change my temper and etc and hope she would put kind words for me to WH and make him change his mind. Well, since WH is actually plan B-ing me and i'm very discouraged and lost the motivation to work on anything. We don't have any direct contact really. We are avoiding each other. Probably I'm just going to fill the LB form out and ask WH, call steve one more time and get it over with.

I'm still looking for job in CA. sometimes things become very difficult to achieve when you desperately need them. I asked question in the other thread just to figure things out to prepare for dark plan b in CA. I'm very tempted to call my mom for help on the kids, although we haven't talked for 10 years. I don't know if it would be a good move, since I'd deal with another awkward relationship.

I feel like if i'm not in dark plan b in CA, nobody is going to talk to me here in the forum. I'm getting there, just need a job. meanwhile, WH got an apartment, and I could ask MIL to live with him if I wanna start dark plan B here in HI.
Originally Posted by xpbrain1
I feel like if i'm not in dark plan b in CA, nobody is going to talk to me here in the forum.
I can't speak for everyone, but I won't stop. I'm going to be honest. It is very difficult to post to someone that doesn't follow Dr. Harley's plans. We try and give advice based on his program. So if you are going to deviate from the plan it will be tough to post advice.

It doesn't mean it will be easy or that you won't have hurdles to jump, but it will help you heal.

Have you told Steve about what Dr. Harley advised? What did he say about it?

What are you doing to eliminate your AOs? Have you heard the anger management clips?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I can't speak for everyone, but I won't stop. I'm going to be honest. It is very difficult to post to someone that doesn't follow Dr. Harley's plans. We try and give advice based on his program. So if you are going to deviate from the plan it will be tough to post advice.

It doesn't mean it will be easy or that you won't have hurdles to jump, but it will help you heal.

Have you told Steve about what Dr. Harley advised? What did he say about it?

What are you doing to eliminate your AOs? Have you heard the anger management clips?

Thanks, Brainhurts. I know what you mean. I do understand a dark plan b will be best for my personal recovery. but i said here on the forum several times that Dr. Harley himself suggested to me on the radio show that I should do a short-term plan A before moving to CA for a long-term plan b. I did do as you guys suggested to email Dr. Harley right after the radio show to let him know that I started plan a since last Nov. and it would take several months before i can move, so if doing plan a now would be too long. Dr. Harley answered that :"It depends. If your mental health continues to deteriorate, it may be too long. One the other hand, knowing you have a plan may help you put your husband�s bad behavior in perspective, and it may not affect you the same way." if you don't believe me, send me your email address, I'll forward the email to you.

I told Steve that I wrote to MB radio and Dr. Harley advised me to do a short-term plan A before moving to CA for a long-term plan b. He said that's exactly what he wanted me to do.

So how am I supposed to follow Dr. Harley's program? Despite what he told me on radio and what he wrote to me on email, I shall do a dark plan b only? I value the support and help on this forum very much! I followed the advises about exposure, cheaterville, but just think about it, if you were me, when you were trying your best to follow Dr. Harley's program to save your marriage, and trying to do everything you can so you won't have any regrets later on, will you ignore Dr. Harley his own advice to you? Well, on the relocation to CA, I might seem indecisive, finding excuses not to move asap. But I'm not in my early twenties anymore that I can just make the move even without a job, don't think about anything else. I need to pay for the high living cost in CA. I don't have relatives to help me with the kids, and I have to admit previously I wasn't too good at staying home taking care of kids, and i found it more enjoyable sending DD to daycare and i go to work, sorry i'm just trying to be honest. now two kids, i just don't want to make the move, and got all stressed out abt not being able to find job, got so tired taking care of both kids, and then be impatient to my kids. also, i just can't handle the insecurity of not having a job and not having a spouse to rely on at the same time. i will be totally on my own when in CA.

after said all these, actually i've seriously thought about moving without a job, but got cold-feet doing it. maybe i can just move and ask wh to pay for all the cost. well, his salary couldn't really afford it and if he blames me causing the financial stress and files D in HI, I'll have to move back with kids and get stuck in HI.

i listened to the clips about anger management and trying to practice relax techniques. i'm reading the love buster book. well, it's almost impossible not to be angry, given that i'm humiliated by WH's plan b-ing me! but i try not to have AOs. living with MIL is difficult, but i try not to hate her, try not to confront her at all. try to think that my life is not about saving this M anymore, but just to take care of my two precious kids.

to be frank, i don't think WH will be interested in Steve's plan for recovery. he want's nothing to do with me. he moved on. and i want to move on too, and show him the consequences of what he did.

if i don't have to move, if i have someone to help me with kids so that i can keep my job, probably i will choose divorce now. well this validates the dark plan b. i'm getting there.
xpbrain,

You need to follow the advice you have received from Dr. Harley.
At the same time, you need to be honest with Dr. Harley at all times about your emotional health
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
xpbrain,

You need to follow the advice you have received from Dr. Harley.
At the same time, you need to be honest with Dr. Harley at all times about your emotional health

Thanks, Jedi. I'll be honest to Steve about my emotional health. If I can't take it any more, I'll go back to plan B.
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