Marriage Builders
New to sight and could use some help.

Situation
Have been married to my high school sweetheart 14 years but didn't get married till I was 24. We dated through college and both ended up cheating on each other before getting married. We got married and have been married since then. Mostly good times. 6 years ago she cheated on me and we worked through things and things were good until yesterday I found out she cheated on me with a brother of one of her coworkers that is 20 years old. She is 36 and I am 38.
Both times she has cheated she has befriended the guy when he is depressed and helped him through tough times and then the guy shows her attention and it turns sexual. Both relationships have been mainly over Facebook, texting and snapchat and then it turns sexual. This last one caught me completely by surprise as I thought things were good as we had been on a couple trips this winter.
We have 3 kids 11,8,and 3.
Here is where I could use help. I love my kids and cannot think of being without them everyday. I also love my wife but cannot put myself up for this heartbreak again. There is something wrong in that she turns away from me in stressful times and turns elsewhere. She constantly has her phone like it is an egg she is trying to hatch.

In the good times I feel we are great together but I can't take these hard times again. Me heart says yes but my brain says no way. I feel so bad for my kids as they are great kids and don't deserve this. She seems to not be remorseful and isn't sure what she wants.
I don't claim to be perfect as I definitely am not.

Please help with some advice. I am having an initial consult with a lawyer on Monday.

Thanks
Hi Outdoorsman, welcome to MArriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. The problem with your wife is that she has very poor boundaries around men, but I think you already realize this.

It has been our experience that exposure is the most potent weapon you have in saving your marriage. Affairs thrive on secrecy, and exposure takes away all the fun. It is no fun to have an affair when everyone is looking on. The more people who know, the more people to hold your wife accountable. Exposure tends to have the effect of bursting the fantasy which gives the cheater the motivation to work on the marriage.

So, the first step that we advise is to expose the affair and run off the OM. If you can run him off [and OM are very easy to get rid off usually because they are punks and cowards] and kill the affair, we can help you create an affair proof marriage that is romantic and passionate. There are no guarantees, but these steps have proven to be the most effective.

Please go read the thread on Exposure that is linked in my signature and come back and lets talk.
Hi Outdoorsman, like MelodyLane pointed out, if your wife knows that her secret second life will be aired for all to see in the light of day, her fantasy will be no longer fun. She may then decide that it is worth it to firm up her boundaries.

Then the two of you can work together to affair proof your marriage, and this will never happen again.

She is not remorseful at the moment because when people have affairs, they are just like an addict, and they don't reason like the rest of us. Unfortunately, you will have to tow the load for a little while until after exposure. It takes a bit of time for that fog to lift, but if you read other stories on here, it DOES usually lift.

Welcome to MB and sorry for your pain.

As you're getting ready to expose please read these.
Surviving an Affair-Start Here First
Hi outdoorsman,
Welcome! You've found the best place to get real help with your marriage. PLEASE do NOT tell your W(wife) yet about MB because we will be helping you make plans to end this affair and rebuild your marriage.

First thing... Read the first thread "Start Here" at the top of this forum. That will help you to understand the advice & suggestions you are going to be given.

Also, do NOT move out. Your kids need you as much as you need them. If anyone ends up having to leave, make sure it's HER, WITHOUT the kids!

How did you discover this affair? Is it being conducted by phone calls, text, computer, personal meets or all of the above?
Did you confront her? And what was her response?

Do you know this guy? His name? Address? Phone number? And what is his marital status?

Good idea about seeing the lawyer. You don't have to make any definite decisions now but it is smart to protect your finances and best interests.
She is gone with her family for the weekend and they all know. She is still unwilling to stop talking to the other guy. So exposure is happening right now. She isn't really talking to anyone but the other guy.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
She is gone with her family for the weekend and they all know. She is still unwilling to stop talking to the other guy. So exposure is happening right now. She isn't really talking to anyone but the other guy.
You need to do the exposure, not her. She will spin it "that she's done with your marriage" and try and blameshift.

When can you expose? Who is on your exposure list?
Exposure includes the OM's friends and family.


Also, do you control the cell phone account??? Might want to update the password (so she doesn't guess your normal passwords) and simply shut down her phone.

She's not entitled to the benefits of marriage.

If she gets mad, then you know you are being effective.

Might need to take control of the home's wifi network to so she can't just use an app to communicate with OM even when there's no cell service.

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
New to sight and could use some help.

Situation
Have been married to my high school sweetheart 14 years but didn't get married till I was 24. We dated through college and both ended up cheating on each other before getting married. We got married and have been married since then. Mostly good times.
Welcome to MB.

Have you ever cheated on your wife since marriage? Have you flirted with women, or had an emotional affair? Did you live together before your were married?
She has her own cell phone acct so I have no control over that. She is going to stay somewhere else when she gets back tomorrow and we will split time with kids. I have not cheated or done anything abnormal since I was in college. We lived together for a couple years before we were married
On exposure list
Have told a couple friends and expect om family to know sometime today. I am in the same business as the om dad and believe that we both respect each other. Am expecting om dad to be not happy with him.
I found out by asking her what was going on and she told me about the affair
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
On exposure list
Have told a couple friends and expect om family to know sometime today. I am in the same business as the om dad and believe that we both respect each other. Am expecting om dad to be not happy with him.
Will you be exposing to OM's family?
On exposure list
Om family should be later today. I know the guys dad and believe that he will b very unhappy about this. I don't know any of his friends as he is half my age. Can't see what she thinks he has to offer he is still in college.

Found out about affair from confronting her.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
On exposure list
Om family should be later today. I know the guys dad and believe that he will b very unhappy about this. I don't know any of his friends as he is half my age. Can't see what she thinks he has to offer he is still in college.

Found out about affair from confronting her.
Did you read this?
Exposure 101

Does he have a Facebook account?
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
She has her own cell phone acct so I have no control over that. She is going to stay somewhere else when she gets back tomorrow and we will split time with kids. I have not cheated or done anything abnormal since I was in college. We lived together for a couple years before we were married


You do know "somewhere" will include OM, don't you??

There's a whole sub-forum here called "Operation Investigate" which you can peruse for help snooping on your wife. Having all the REAL information is often very helpful when deciding what to do. I found simply hiding a voice activated recording device in my wife's car the most useful. It's not like you can believe anything she tells you.

Does your wife know you are going to see an attorney?

No it is a mutual friend that I trust to tell me if she is with him and staying with her parents when she has our kids. If she is unwilling to give him up we will b getting a divorce. Haven't told her that but will when I see her tomorrow.
She does know that I am going to an atty
Considering the history here and this not being her first affair you are going to need to step things up and learn fast here. The techniques you used before to "save" your marriage were obviously disastrous. This affair is obviously ridiculous in that she has no intention of running off to be with this college boy. She will merely do this one more day and one more day after that and one more day after that and so on and so on for as long as you'll allow it and OM doesn't get bored.

You're gonna need to be tough here but not in a screaming angry manner but in a calm, calculated, direct kind of way establishing a firm boundary that she can't keep playing around with OM and expect you to still be there when she it ends. Going to see a lawyer next week to consider your options is a good first step. It changes things up and lets her know she can't keep you this time.

Mr. W
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
No it is a mutual friend that I trust to tell me if she is with him and staying with her parents when she has our kids. If she is unwilling to give him up we will b getting a divorce. Haven't told her that but will when I see her tomorrow.

This is where the typical WW will come up with some bull story about why they have to run to the store to pick up a 6 pack or buy cigarettes and rendezvous with the OM for a crisis meeting in the parking lot of Walmart. Staying "somewhere else" and selling you on how trustworthy they promise to be is very common. Why not just stay at home and talk things out with you??? If she needs "space" offer to give her a secluded corner of the basement or garage. "Space" is code for "meet up with OM" speak in waywardville.

At the very least...she'll retire to her room early leaving others to look after the kids while she talks and texts with OM all night long, then sleeps until 2 pm the next day.
Her parents are upset and won't let her sit n text him all night when she is with them and kids. He lives more than 40 miles from my house so it will b hard for her to have easy rendeveaus. Part of me just wants to let her play this out as I am fully ready to divorce her if she continues down this path.
No matter how hard I try I can't make her do anything. Afraid to piss her off and things will get nasty and I don't want that for the kids
I admit I'm just guessing at some/most of this stuff based off typical scenarios. Yours differs. They all have variances. That's why Getting a VAR around her so you can get the actual truth versus what she tells you is happening is key.

As far as an ultimatum. They are fine. An ultimatum is essentially a boundary. I'll link a really good thread on boundaries in a couple minutes here. You may find it useful. Key is...be prepared for her to choose OM and test your resolve. It's easy to say upfront she either "chooses me or I'll divorce" until you are faced with the scenario that she actually chooses boytoy OM and you must follow through with what you said you'd do, despite the heartache doing so will result on your family. Realize...pursuing divorce doesn't necessary have to me the end of fighting for your family. She is very likely to wake up later and likely give you guys a chance later on in the process.

Another thing as I ramble here. When you deliver this ultimatum it's often a good idea to have a recording device on your person just in case she goes nuts on you (or herself) and calls the cops in an attempt to file a restraining order or otherwise have you removed from the marital home in a preemptive strike to put her in a favorable position in a future custody battle. You may think that will never happen to you but it's happened enough on these forums for us to specifically warn against such ugliness. Wayward wives have, on occasion beat themselves up in an effort to file a false report and deny their betrayed husbands custody of the children. In fact, in your situation having primary full custody of the kids (and the resulting larger child support obligation) may be the best way for her to afford being with a 20 year college kid long term.
Here is promised link to one of my favorite MB discussions regarding the often difficult to define term "boundaries" in contrast with manipulation and control. Pay particular attention to Noodle's posts.


BOUNDARIES VS. MANIPULATION/CONTROL - An Open Discussion

Mr. W
Gotta run. Good luck. I'm not around as much as I used to be but I will check in.

Godspeed,
Mr. W
I already feel like she is choosing the other guy
And I know deep down his thing with him won't last long once it's out in the open
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
On exposure list
Om family should be later today. I know the guys dad and believe that he will b very unhappy about this. I don't know any of his friends as he is half my age. Can't see what she thinks he has to offer he is still in college.

Found out about affair from confronting her.
Did you read this?
Exposure 101

Does he have a Facebook account?
When will you be exposing?
And, let her know that you have no intention of being a part time father, that you will stay with and raise your children.
Yes I read the exposure stuff. Will continue to the next few days. Don't want to kick the sleeping dragon just yet
Originally Posted by MrWondering
Considering the history here and this not being her first affair you are going to need to step things up and learn fast here.
I agree. I would recommend that you read Melody's Exposure 101 link, and then the Start Here First Link that is at the top of this forum.

And then after that, if you can get your hands on (or download to a tablet) Dr. Harley's revised version of "Surviving an Affair", that will help a bunch. You will find many similarities when you read of Sue and Jon (the couple in the book). It's a super fast read and explains everything that you are going through.

It is available in hard copy here Surviving an Affair but you can also get it for your tablet on Amazon.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
Yes I read the exposure stuff. Will continue to the next few days. Don't want to kick the sleeping dragon just yet

Who is the sleeping dragon? And what are you waiting for and WHY? You have a very slim window of opportujnity and if you don't take it NOW and do it correctly, you won't get much out it. In fact, you will sabotage your chances.

You say you have "exposed" to some people? To WHOM and what EXACTLY did you say?

Have you read my exposure thread to see how it should be done? It seems you are trickling this out, which is a strategic mistake that will blow up in your face. Please go read my exposure thread NOW.
My wife is the sleeping dragon if I provoke her she has already threatened that can get ugly if I provoke her. I have been married to her for 14 years and she is very capable of making this ugly
Quote
She is gone with her family for the weekend and they all know. She is still unwilling to stop talking to the other guy. So exposure is happening right now. She isn't really talking to anyone but the other guy.

WHAT do they know and WHO told them?

Quote
She is going to stay somewhere else when she gets back tomorrow and we will split time with kids.

I would get the kids home and not allow her to have them unless she has a court order that is accompanied by an armed sheriff. The kids should also be told about her affair. They shuold be instructed to call you immediately ifthis turd comes anywhere close to them.


Your children should not be dragged out of their safe home to accommodate their mothers vile affair.

It is critical that you get the affair exposed in one fell swoop in a CORRECT manner or you will greatly minimize the effect. Call the OM's parents and then go to his facebook page and expose to relatives and any married couples.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
My wife is the sleeping dragon if I provoke her she has already threatened that can get ugly if I provoke her. I have been married to her for 14 years and she is very capable of making this ugly

We don't care if your wife gets angry. It is absolutely irrelevant to saving your marriage. Our goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all cost. If you are not making her angry, then you are not doing enough to bust up this affair.

Your marriage can survive her temporary anger over your interference in her affair, but it CAN'T survive an ongoing affair. The longer you let this go on, the harder it will be to bust it up.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
My wife is the sleeping dragon if I provoke her she has already threatened that can get ugly if I provoke her.

If you want to save your marriage, you had better get UGLY and you had better get that way FAST.
Not sure we're u people are from. I am from a rural town of 300 people and most people here are not this vindictive
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
Not sure we're u people are from. I am from a rural town of 300 people and most people here are not this vindictive
Sir is it vindictive to fight for your marriage and to tell the truth?

Adultery is an ugly vindictive sin, sir.
In my initial post I said that I am not sure what I want as of yet. Trying to get things sorted out. I don't know that I can ever trust her again if we were to try and get back together
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
Not sure we're u people are from. I am from a rural town of 300 people and most people here are not this vindictive

I understand you feel she is vindictive because of her cruelty. But you won't feel that way when the affair is over and you are in recovery. This is why it is so important to do as much as possible to kill her affair. That is your only chance at saving your marriage and your children's family.
I agree an affair is vindictive didn't think of it that way
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
In my initial post I said that I am not sure what I want as of yet. Trying to get things sorted out. I don't know that I can ever trust her again if we were to try and get back together

That is all fine. You may decide at some point you don't want to save your marriage and that is your choice entirely. You don't have to make a decision today. But you won't have a vote AT ALL if you don't bust up this affair. If you don't do that, then your kids will be calling this punk "daddy" in the future. Hopefully, you can prevent that.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
I agree an affair is vindictive didn't think of it that way

Just think how many people are harmed? You, your innocent children, your other family members. Adultery is as traumatic as rape or physical assault. It is about the worst thing that can happen to a person. Her affair will WRECK your children's lives.

That is pretty darn vindictive if you ask me!!
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
I agree an affair is vindictive didn't think of it that way
We know of posters who've said an affair was the most painful experience they've ever experienced.

Dr. Harley has counseled women who've been raped and their husband's affair was far more painful.
When your children grow up and find out that this punk destroyed their family, they may feel the affair was a little "vindictive." Especially if the OM replaces YOU.

See, your wife's goal is to REPLACE you with the OM. Do you want to cooperate with that plan? Do you want him to be step daddy to your children? Because that is where she is taking your family right now.

THAT is where this is headed unless you put a stop to it.
You want to be Mr Nice Guy while the OM assaults your marriage and your children's family? Be assured he is not playing nice with you. Playing nice is tantamount to bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight; you will only get your [censored] shot off. And in this case, your children will pay the price for your complacence.

You think he will be nice to your kids when you are removed from the scene? Think again. The risk that your children will be molested or beaten is great when the father is out of the home and some loser takes his place.

Your kids need you to step up here and run this jerk off. Instead of worrying about your wife's "anger" please worry about their FAMILY and their safety.

YOU ARE ALL THEY HAVE!!
It is not vindictive to speak the truth to people.

The truth is what it is. Facts about reality.

Affairs are built on secrets and lies.

You, as the man of the house, do not need to guard the secret/lies.

You can, and as a matter of fact, should let the truth be known (exposure).


Children also can deal with the truth. Otherwise, what they think is going on is wayyyyyy worse. They are trying to make sense of what is happening in their family and in their world.

Let them know that their mother is dating another man. Let them know who he is. Tell your children you will do all you can to be their rock to lean on.

Yes, it hurts to have to deal with this. You never wished it for your kids.

Your wife is the one who created this mess though and you must simply be strong enough to handle telling others about the truth. Know that some people, your wife FOR SURE.....will get angry with you for doing it.

It still needs to be done.

It IS the right thing to do in the situation.

All of us here have HAD to DO it ourselves. We know how scary it is.

I don't think one of us here regrets being brave enough to actually having done it.

Even though we have faced vile reactions from waywards after doing it.

Also, here you go.
Exposing to the Children
I want to talk to my lawyer before I go and send messages to all the Facebook people. Don't want to hurt my rights by doing that too quickly. Appt with lawyer is Monday afternoon
Also agree that kids should know that mom is seeing someone else and is not willing to talk with me because of it. Do we need to do it with wife ? What if she won't agree to do I tell her I will tell them myself?
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
Also agree that kids should know that mom is seeing someone else and is not willing to talk with me because of it. Do we need to do it with wife ? What if she won't agree to do I tell her I will tell them myself?
You should tell your kids by yourself. She will try and spin it about other things and say you're crazy.

Also, the lawyer will not want to try and save your marriage and most likely will tell you not to expose. Most divorce lawyers are lazy and will want to do what's easy for them. They will push for an "amicable" divorce.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
I want to talk to my lawyer before I go and send messages to all the Facebook people. Don't want to hurt my rights by doing that too quickly. Appt with lawyer is Monday afternoon
Also, no one said to send it to all her and OM's Facebook lists. You want to hit the important targets (like the Exposure 101 thread states).

Your parents and children, your siblings. WW's parents and siblings, any married friends. OM's wife or girlfriend, parents and siblings.
You don't tell the kids with her.

You don't tell her you are going to tell them.

You just tell them without her involved.

Also, please read this. "I Encourage BH's to Confront OM" Dr. Harley


After you expose.

He's a 20 year old little punk and you should tell him to stay away from your WW. He'll probably duck tail and run.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
I want to talk to my lawyer before I go and send messages to all the Facebook people. Don't want to hurt my rights by doing that too quickly. Appt with lawyer is Monday afternoon

Your lawyer is going to tell you to not do it because he won't get paid if you don't go to divorce. He doesn't care about your marriage; he cares about getting paid.

Telling the truth has never been against the law nor hurt anyone in a court of law.

Do you want to save your marriage or not? You sure as hell aren't acting like it.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
I want to talk to my lawyer before I go and send messages to all the Facebook people. Don't want to hurt my rights by doing that too quickly. Appt with lawyer is Monday afternoon

Then you are dead in the water right now and should just give up. A lawyer is not interested in saving your marriage. He is only interested in facilitating the easiest, most amicable divorce possible. He will tell you to do nothing other than "make friends" with the OM to make this all very easy.

His goal is get you divorced; ours is to save your marriage.

You need to just give up now and move out and let your wife replace you because you are dead in the water.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
I want to talk to my lawyer before I go and send messages to all the Facebook people. Don't want to hurt my rights by doing that too quickly. Appt with lawyer is Monday afternoon


The advice we are giving you to expose is given by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. THOUSANDS of us have used this advice to save our marriages:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
When you get serious about saving your marriage, come back and we can help you. You have been given all the necessary tools to give you the best chance at saving it.

Now it is up to you to use them. Use them or don't use them, it is all the same to me.
First off, I want to commend you for actually reaching out and asking for advice. For every one of you there are 50 guys out there reading that are too nervous, too proud or thinking they are too smart to actually dip their toes into this fire. You see, there are a lot of guys like you and me who are very slow, thoughtful and deliberate to act. We like to think things through FIRST. This is one of those times in life where slow to act will end up really hurting you. Other guys this comes more naturally too and they'd be kicking butt long before they would ever google "how can I get my wife to stop dating other men". Further, adultery is abusive. She's been beaten you down with this stuff for years and it's no wonder you are scared to take any definitive action. The problem is you are focusing on her reactions versus YOUR actions. You see...it took me awhile too way back in 2005 to figure out that I MATTERED TOO. Do you hear that. YOU MATTER. She can get mad all she wants because you putting your foot down is not telling your wife what she has to do. It's not controlling her. The cage door is open. You aren't her keeper and she is free to leave anytime she wants (without the children). Rather you are merely informing her (as calmly and rationally as you can without anger) what YOU will accept in YOUR life. BECAUSE...YOU MATTER TOO.

I personally think it's great there are only 300 people in your town. That's 300 people that should know your wife has cheated on you twice and that, IF you take her back, YOU are a saint for doing so. That's 300 people in town that will have your back. They'll keep an eye on her in the future and certainly the women will all be sure to keep their kids and husband's away from her. Maybe ... just maybe...you wife can finally hit rock bottom here and get it through her head that this behavior is juvenile and unacceptable....OR NOT. If she doesn't, you'll have a very quick answer to YOUR question "Should I bother even trying to save this marriage?".

The posters here are great. Melody Lane was instrumental in saving my marriage NINE years ago. My wife and her are actually super close friends now. Have been for years. We've even vacationed with Melody Lane and her husband. I understand you wanting to think things through but time really is of the essence here. One of the big reasons time is really important here is YOU are days away from hating this woman forever. Truly, your wife has got a small window of time to wake her butt up here and start working with you to save your family. She'll only do that AFTER her affair is over. You can't talk rationally to an active wife. Just as you said, if you give her an ultimatum...she'll choose OM so why bother. Fight the affair FIRST. Get on this exposure wagon ASAP. It's the best chance you've got. You should have done it the first time she cheated. Do it quickly and without consulting your wayward wife (threatening exposure only forewarns them and they will preempt you by running around town telling everyone you've lost your mind and your abusive and your X,Y and Z). Tell the kids in an age appropriate manner. Bust up the affair as fast as you can and THEN we'll help you evaluate the fallout.

And carry that recorder in your pocket so you can cover your butt if she decides it's time to play dirty.

Godspeed,

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - The beauty of taking bold and strong actions (not vindictive) is that in a short while YOU will begin to feel more confident. This is attractive behavior and will assist you rebuilding your self-confidence (because YOU MATTER TOO). Worst case...you end up divorced HOWEVER you will end up divorced KNOWING you stood up for yourself and took the bull by the horns and tactically fought for your family. I've got just as many divorced friends from MB as recovered friends. They are much more healthy and UN-regretful having undertaken this MB process than others I know that didn't. In other words, do what Melody Lane and everyone else is telling you and you will either save your marriage (truly save it whereupon you and your wife will be in love again versus just enduring your wife's behavior and thinking things are just OK) OR you'll end up happily divorced from an unrepentant woman (formerly known as your wife). Let us guide you to the finish line God has in store for you.

p.p.s. - If you just have to talk to a lawyer first...please take note of the fact that I am one. grin
Originally Posted by MrWondering
First off, I want to commend you for actually reaching out and asking for advice. For every one of you there are 50 guys out there reading that are too nervous, too proud or thinking they are too smart to actually dip their toes into this fire. You see, there are a lot of guys like you and me who are very slow, thoughtful and deliberate to act. We like to think things through FIRST. This is one of those times in life where slow to act will end up really hurting you. Other guys this comes more naturally too and they'd be kicking butt long before they would ever google "how can I get my wife to stop dating other men". Further, adultery is abusive. She's been beaten you down with this stuff for years and it's no wonder you are scared to take any definitive action. The problem is you are focusing on her reactions versus YOUR actions. You see...it took me awhile too way back in 2005 to figure out that I MATTERED TOO. Do you hear that. YOU MATTER. She can get mad all she wants because you putting your foot down is not telling your wife what she has to do. It's not controlling her. The cage door is open. You aren't her keeper and she is free to leave anytime she wants (without the children). Rather you are merely informing her (as calmly and rationally as you can without anger) what YOU will accept in YOUR life. BECAUSE...YOU MATTER TOO.

I personally think it's great there are only 300 people in your town. That's 300 people that should know your wife has cheated on you twice and that, IF you take her back, YOU are a saint for doing so. That's 300 people in town that will have your back. They'll keep an eye on her in the future and certainly the women will all be sure to keep their kids and husband's away from her. Maybe ... just maybe...you wife can finally hit rock bottom here and get it through her head that this behavior is juvenile and unacceptable....OR NOT. If she doesn't, you'll have a very quick answer to YOUR question "Should I bother even trying to save this marriage?".

The posters here are great. Melody Lane was instrumental in saving my marriage NINE years ago. My wife and her are actually super close friends now. Have been for years. We've even vacationed with Melody Lane and her husband. I understand you wanting to think things through but time really is of the essence here. One of the big reasons time is really important here is YOU are days away from hating this woman forever. Truly, your wife has got a small window of time to wake her butt up here and start working with you to save your family. She'll only do that AFTER her affair is over. You can't talk rationally to an active wife. Just as you said, if you give her an ultimatum...she'll choose OM so why bother. Fight the affair FIRST. Get on this exposure wagon ASAP. It's the best chance you've got. You should have done it the first time she cheated. Do it quickly and without consulting your wayward wife (threatening exposure only forewarns them and they will preempt you by running around town telling everyone you've lost your mind and your abusive and your X,Y and Z). Tell the kids in an age appropriate manner. Bust up the affair as fast as you can and THEN we'll help you evaluate the fallout.

And carry that recorder in your pocket so you can cover your butt if she decides it's time to play dirty.

Godspeed,

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - The beauty of taking bold and strong actions (not vindictive) is that in a short while YOU will begin to feel more confident. This is attractive behavior and will assist you rebuilding your self-confidence (because YOU MATTER TOO). Worst case...you end up divorced HOWEVER you will end up divorced KNOWING you stood up for yourself and took the bull by the horns and tactically fought for your family. I've got just as many divorced friends from MB as recovered friends. They are much more healthy and UN-regretful having undertaken this MB process than others I know that didn't. In other words, do what Melody Lane and everyone else is telling you and you will either save your marriage (truly save it whereupon you and your wife will be in love again versus just enduring your wife's behavior and thinking things are just OK) OR you'll end up happily divorced from an unrepentant woman (formerly known as your wife). Let us guide you to the finish line God has in store for you.

p.p.s. - If you just have to talk to a lawyer first...please take note of the fact that I am one. grin

Great post, Mr. W. Hope our outdoorsman takes it to heart.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
In my initial post I said that I am not sure what I want as of yet. Trying to get things sorted out. I don't know that I can ever trust her again if we were to try and get back together
It is premature to worry about restoring trust, but the simple truth is that if you follow the plan here, in about two years you will trust your wife again. You really should not, as spouses in marriage need to look out for each other and should never be blinded by trust. However, once your marriage has recovered you will feel like trusting her again.
The affair is exposed to most parties involved. Om family her family and mine. Also some of our friends. She continues to talk with him and is not seeing that she needs to cut ties with him to be able to make decisions based on her own thoughts. I think she feels that so much damage has happened that it is to far gone and not salvageable. She doesn't want to talk with me because she feels I am telling her what to do. I am giving her the same advice I would a friend if they were in the same situation. I think she wants to continue talking with him because she feels he is the only one that knows what she wants. When I talked with her at one moment she wants to b done (when she was mad about what I was saying). And the next she isn't sure(after we told the kids we were separating)
Separating???

Is she moving out? Please don't agree to leaving your own home or taking turns sharing the home. She want's out or want's space...she's free to go.


You've probably had a hellish weekend. Hope you can concentrate at work. Hopefully your exposure on OM's side takes root. One reason for a wide exposure is you never know who the perfect person (angel) is. The person that is knowledgeable about affairs and has enough influence over OM (or your wife) to get them to end it. My wife's affair 9 years ago ended after exposure and OM breaking off the affair out of the blue.

BTW...you talk to her to meet her needs for conversation right now and not to try to logic her back to her senses. She's full blown wayward right now and isn't thinking straight. You may as well be talking to a 13 year girl and trying to convince her she doesn't need a cell phone.

Godspeed,

Mr. W
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
The affair is exposed to most parties involved. Om family her family and mine. Also some of our friends. She continues to talk with him and is not seeing that she needs to cut ties with him to be able to make decisions based on her own thoughts. I think she feels that so much damage has happened that it is to far gone and not salvageable. She doesn't want to talk with me because she feels I am telling her what to do. I am giving her the same advice I would a friend if they were in the same situation. I think she wants to continue talking with him because she feels he is the only one that knows what she wants. When I talked with her at one moment she wants to b done (when she was mad about what I was saying). And the next she isn't sure(after we told the kids we were separating)

You are making serious strategic mistakes that will be very hard to overcome. First off, you have not exposed the affair. That is the greatest weapon against an affair.

And secondly, you are separating? faint Why? Are you moving out? Separating only increases the risk of divorce and makes it much harder to save your marriage.

This marriage is very salvageable if you will only put aside your own inexperience and your misleading emotions and follow a strategic plan..

We can't help you unless you follow the advice, outdoorsman.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
And the next she isn't sure(after we told the kids we were separating)

Were your children told about the affair or were they lied to in order to accommodate her affair?
She has agreed tO end the affair this morning and I told her I want proof that it was done. We will work together to see where life takes us from here. I told her that we need to tell the kids there is another person involved.
Good! Please do not accept anything less than her writing a no contact letter BY HAND and giving it to YOU to take to the post office and mail (signature receipt is best so that you know that he got it).

Also, total transparency must begin this instant. She needs to change her cell phone number today. Do you have the password for her cell phone account? Can you access it online? I suggest that you install a GPS tracker on her phone.

Now is a vital time Outdoorsman, because with no contact she is going to be depressed for a while until the fog clears. Now you must learn to snoop and monitor very well.
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
She has agreed tO end the affair this morning and I told her I want proof that it was done. We will work together to see where life takes us from here. I told her that we need to tell the kids there is another person involved.

Like i said, let us know when you get serious and we can help you save your marriage. So far, you have made many strategic mistakes and you will reach a point of no return where nothing will help. The longer you wait the harder it will be to save your marriage.

If the affair is "over" then why the "separation?" Let me guess, to get "space?"
Originally Posted by BlindSighted2013
Good! Please do not accept anything less than her writing a no contact letter BY HAND and giving it to YOU to take to the post office and mail (signature receipt is best so that you know that he got it).

Also, total transparency must begin this instant. She needs to change her cell phone number today. Do you have the password for her cell phone account? Can you access it online? I suggest that you install a GPS tracker on her phone.

Now is a vital time Outdoorsman, because with no contact she is going to be depressed for a while until the fog clears. Now you must learn to snoop and monitor very well.

This. You must understand she will say anything to pacify you and continue her affair, this is known as gaslighting. You cannot take her at her word as she is like an addict who will lie and do anything to keep her affair going and keep the feeling going that she gets from the affair. I know its hard to imagine but your anything out of your WW's mouth cannot be trusted.

Also, you need to discreetly snoop and verify No Contact not let her prove it to you. She iwll lie and take the A deeper underground.

You need to sit your children down and explin to them what is going on alone so she cant spin or minimize her actions. You should show them a picture of the OM and explain to them he and your WW are trying to bust up your family. Doing so will ensure they don't accept him and notify you anytime he comes around.

Also, expect at least 1 relapse of No Contact being broken. You don't believe it now but your WW is completely out of her mind and not thinking clearly. The next couple of weeks are going to be worse than you can imaging.

My baby sister's H had an affair years ago and I sent her HERE and told her to follow EVERY SINGLE STEP of advice that vets like MelodyLane and Mr Wondering gave her. I had to continually refocus her and tell her to keep posting and keep following the plan that was laid out for her.

Thank goodness she listened and ignored her instincts & fear of angering her foggy WH. She was able to end the affair and restore her M.

You are making serious missteps and letting your WW's fogbabble guide you. I hope you wake up and realize this before it's too late!
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
I told her that we need to tell the kids there is another person involved.

For emphasis:
This the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we advise here at MarriageBuilders.

This is Plan Outdoorsman, who doesn't know what he is doing.

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
She has agreed tO end the affair this morning and I told her I want proof that it was done. We will work together to see where life takes us from here. I told her that we need to tell the kids there is another person involved.


The best "proof" is sticking to her side and not giving her the space to make contact.

You can discuss what No Contact means as you have her prepare and sign the form "no contact" letter.


Also...don't be surprised or think all is lost if she has one last "Closure" conversation with OM. It's quite typical to agree to "no contact" and then make one more final contact to say goodbye. It's terribly hurtful and destructive of trust but it happens fairly regularly. They just start to go through withdrawal and get to wondering and daydreaming and talk themselves into the fact that they just HAVE TO say goodbye on THEIR own terms. It's consistent selfish entitled behavior that doesn't end in a day or a week.

Don't know if you've read about withdrawal but your wife is likely to go through a period of 2 to 4 weeks of depression as she goes through withdrawal from the habit of talking, texting and generally acting like a teenager on crack with the OM. She truly won't be ready to begin recovery with for a few weeks. During this period you just try to stick to her like glue (without being obvious...like you are her prison guard)....get yourselves out of the house and doing things (versus sitting around trying to have meaningful conversations when she's not ready to really to have those conversations yet)...and distract her from dwelling on her addiction to OM.

Godspeed,
Mr. W
Originally Posted by Outdoorsman
We will work together to see where life takes us from here.

For emphasis:
This the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we advise here at MarriageBuilders.

This is Plan Outdoorsman, who doesn't know what he is doing.
Outdoorsman,

You are making a big mistake by not exposing completely.

I would also suggest going back and exposing the first OM, your WW has to learn their are consequences for her actions.

God Bless
Gamma
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