Marriage Builders
Posted By: NewStart128 Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 05:01 AM

I was recently introduced to this website by a friend that counseled with someone from here in the past. I just purchased the book His Needs, Her Needs and wish I had this early in my marriage. My past is one that involved an affair on my part as I lost connection with my husband over the years. We are divorced now. He is very bitter and cannot wait for our children to find out the truth so they will hate me as much as he does, in his words. My friend has told his children what the mother had done, in simple terms for their ages saying it was their life too and they should know the truth. I have given this some thought and feel there would be much more respect down the road if I approached the issue myself, truthfully, to my children and explain how that was a very wrong thing to do. They have asked why we divorced and I always say it was adult stuff. I have a 12 1/2 yr old boy and a 10 yr old girl and both are very sharp kiddos. I would like some guidance on this. Being the guilty one in things, I am not sure how to speak of my wrong-doing. Open-minded adults can comprehend, but kiddos may have a more difficult time getting it.

Any insight or direction to a helpful source would be appreciated
Thanks!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 05:17 AM
Hi Newstart. It is very, very confusing to children when they are given false explanations for the source of tension in their lives. They very often blame themselves for the problems when the "explanations" make no sense. When they eventually find out they were lied to, they learn that dishonesty is acceptable. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.


Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
Q. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

A. Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
Posted By: Littlebit3 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 05:18 AM
NewStart128,
Hello. I am glad to see that you have found MarriageBuilders. You will get fantastic advice and guidance. There are some very knowledgable people here that have a lot of experience helping on this forum.

I am please to see that you are in agreement that the children should have been told. How they are told is important, but it is important that they be told. Since they have been told, and if you are ready to be honest without excuses, you should talk to them about why what you did is wrong.

You will learn here that there are a lot of reasons for bad behavior, and reasons for having an affair, but there are not excuses for said behavior.

I know some vets will be along shortly to give you some advice. Have you searched the forums for "telling the children?" Also, up top, in the red bar, under articles - there should be an article on telling the children. There may even be something under the Q & A Columns.

I hope you find the help and answers that you need.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
I was recently introduced to this website by a friend that counseled with someone from here in the past. I just purchased the book His Needs, Her Needs and wish I had this early in my marriage. My past is one that involved an affair on my part as I lost connection with my husband over the years. We are divorced now. He is very bitter and cannot wait for our children to find out the truth so they will hate me as much as he does, in his words. My friend has told his children what the mother had done, in simple terms for their ages saying it was their life too and they should know the truth. I have given this some thought and feel there would be much more respect down the road if I approached the issue myself, truthfully, to my children and explain how that was a very wrong thing to do. They have asked why we divorced and I always say it was adult stuff. I have a 12 1/2 yr old boy and a 10 yr old girl and both are very sharp kiddos. I would like some guidance on this. Being the guilty one in things, I am not sure how to speak of my wrong-doing. Open-minded adults can comprehend, but kiddos may have a more difficult time getting it.

Any insight or direction to a helpful source would be appreciated
Thanks!!

They have a difficult time understanding "adult stuff" answers.
My children knew why we divorced when they were as young as 5.
Posted By: Gamma Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 01:32 PM
NewStart,

As an added bonus your BH might gain respect for you, since in a sense not only are you lying to your children but he is too. I can't say this will lead to a reconciliation but it can't hurt.

In my experience children see or hear something and suspect something but are unsure what it is, but in the end somehow blame themselves for the divorce. Did your children ever meet the OM?

God Bless
Gamma

Posted By: Darkguy Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 02:03 PM
My son was 4 and my step son was 10 when I exposed my WW's affair. To say its adult stuff and kids wouldn't understand is very disrepectful. What should be said is "I am ashamed of my behavior so I am lying to my children to protect my image and escape consequences." Kids know something is wrong waaaaaay before adults. They have less distractions in their lives and are very sensitive to moods and changes in their lives. Most times they don't know how to express how they feel out of fear of reprisal. Tell your children what you done and tell them the truth.
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 05:59 PM
I have only had half a day experience here and as a quick reply to this, I am so thankful for you all in the info you have shared thus far. I will be back later today to respond more.

Thank you!
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 07:31 PM
Exposing to Children
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
My past is one that involved an affair on my part as I lost connection with my husband over the years. We are divorced now. He is very bitter and cannot wait for our children to find out the truth so they will hate me as much as he does, in his words.


I hope you do not tell your children that you had an affair because you "lost connection" with your H. You should tell them it was wrong.

Posted By: indiegirl Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 09:49 PM
Yes I applaud your plan to be honest but like Susie I'm apprehensive this is a spin job. It will be enormously tempting to you to make excuses where none should be made. There's only one reason why people have affairs and that's poor boundaries with the AP. You could have lost every connection with your H but that doesn't explain the new connection you made with the OM.

People have affairs because they think they won't. Thinking they won't, they get too close to someone else. Then they start lying about their whereabouts and doings at key points where the truth would save them. That's a conscious decision made all on their own.

Tell your children bare facts, apologise and encourage them to speak to their father about it.

If they ask you why tell them that sometimes grown ups do the wrong thing.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
We are divorced now. He is very bitter and cannot wait for our children to find out the truth so they will hate me as much as he does, in his words.

In addition to the child issue, I sure hope that you will read and learn from Dr Harley's teachings on infidelity. You can start with his infidelity video.

From my perspective, you don't seem very sympathetic to what your BH has been put through. Your affair was likely by far the WORST thing that has ever happened to your H, and not only did he have to suffer through just the affair but also his family being destroyed by it, resulting in D.

By learning here, then you will be much more likely to avoid repeating this behavior into the future.
Posted By: alis Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 10:19 PM
You'll probably just confirm their suspicions rather than shock them. Most waywards are so wrapped up in their affair they don't even realize their children suspect something. I remember when my mom told me. My response? Well duh, I'm not an idiot.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/10/14 10:44 PM
Please watch.
Infidelity: What Every Couple Needs to Know
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 02:13 AM
Thanks again everyone!
I think the first thing I need to do is figure out the acronyms that everyone uses on here so I can follow you better. But I think I understand your meanings, even though.
My background consists of growing up in a single parent home as well. Promising myself I would never end up that way for the reasons they did - affair. Here I sit, in the same boat. One thing I respect my mom for was never saying anything bad that I recall about my dad. I got myself in this place, so now I do my best to be as my mom was. My situation started about 6 yrs ago. Came to light 1 1/2 yrs into the affair (unbelievable and horrific when I am out of that and look back). We tried to counsel through it but his triggers were too great to overcome, which I can understand. We separated for good after over a year over trying and divorced after another year (2012).
You are right, it was the most devastating experience of his life. I don't expect him to like me. I completely own my actions. At the exposure moment, I instantly had no interest in the other guy. It seems odd and different from the other stories I have read, where they missed the other and snuck back etc... I had no desire.
I don't plan to say it was his fault or anything to that fact. I don't need excuses, I just want to clean up things. Being honest and truthful is how I want to live going forward. I sense maybe my ex has mentioned something to my son at least in some sort of way. It is like there is still one more secret to clear up and then I can move forward after telling the kids.

I watch my daughter suffer with tears of sadness when she cries at bedtime without an answer why. I know...she misses the one of us that isn't with her. That is hugely from my actions and it is painful.

Reading the book and only a couple chapters in, I know I am going to live out that in my next relationship. Seems that is the only way to have a fulfilling one. The person who enlightened me to this was from a marriage where she strayed. I imagined that a guy on that side would never have any time to give me after they knew my past. I was up front right away and he still talks to me. I think my sincerity in a change of life for the good is apparent.

I will definitely look into the videos and links/searches on here for guidance on the kiddos. It will be uncomfortable for me but it is necessary.

Thank you!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 02:20 AM
New start, the bulk of Dr Harley's comments about telling children are in those quotes above. That encompasses his advice on telling children, other than to be extremely honest about the facts. That would mean telling them the OMs name, how long your affair went on, where it occurred, etc. That is the entirety of his guidance. It is really not any more complicated than that. The hardest part will be telling them. But it is the right thing to do.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 02:22 AM
You simply tell the kids that moms and dads do not have BF/GF. Well mom/I had a BF and went on dates with OM(insert name.

What I did is known as having an affair, also called cheating.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Did you read this?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 02:26 AM
Also, here.
Acronyms and Abbreviations
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 02:54 AM
I have not read anything more than the posts so far. After kids are in bed tonight I will watch and read those.

TheRoad - I like the simple yet open dialect. The kids know who the guy was, martial arts instructor for my son at the time. This should be disclosed as well, I assume? Kids' dad and I told kids this person was a bad guy and not to talk to him anymore, but we never gave any more info. Time to explain why, as I have gotten that question on why he was bad a few times even this past year.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 03:00 AM
I am so relieved that you cut contact between the kids and the OM. When kids find out they have trusted such a person, it can be galling and upsetting once they find out that persons role in the downfall of their family.
Posted By: Gamma Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 01:04 PM
NewStart,

Did you make amends to the Other mans wife, OMW, or girl friend does she know what happened, .

Also the OM should not be in a position of trust and respect, have you exposed the OM to other parents. He also needs to be reported to the national organization of the martial art he teaches.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 04:03 PM
When will you be telling the kids?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Also the OM should not be in a position of trust and respect, have you exposed the OM to other parents. He also needs to be reported to the national organization of the martial art he teaches.


I agree with this, but not sure NS is in a position to do it. As an AP herself it might come over as sour grapes and not to be believed. Usually it is the BS doing that sort of exposure. It sounds like he was involved in some minimal exposure to the children...

I just wanted to offer my support NS. You are tackling a hard truth because you see your children hurting. Do let us know how you get on.

Some WS's do instantly 'get it' at the moment of exposure. I have seen that happen before. They are usually then tireless in their efforts to put things right.

Posted By: black_raven Re: Telling children the truth - 04/11/14 05:00 PM
Hi NewStart

My exWH's affairs were exposed to our children...they were younger than your children are now. Personally, I would never refer to an affair partner as a gf or bf. One day my children with have a bf or gf and I don't want them to ever associate such a title with anything bad or filthy. I also made it clear that my then WH had committed adultery and had sex with these women. By not making this clear, IMO children could think it was just handholding, kissing, etc. (what a bf/gf would do) and minimize the severity of what happened.

I applaud you for wanting to tell your children the truth. Without the full truth, I have seen more problems created for children who are trying to understand what the heck happened....secrets lead to more secrets, confusion, and resentment the longer they are hidden.

Exposure to children also gives you the opportunity to teach/re-affirm life lessons. My kids and I talked about the consequences of adultery, betrayal, lying, etc...and why you shouldn't do those things to people. We spoke about how to treat people, religion, what making amends and marriage means. I am divorced so obviously my children see that as a consequence...not to mention all the hurt and destroyed relationships they witnessed. Use this opportunity as a learning experience for them...on a large scale.

Welcome to MB.

ETA: The talks I had with my kids were not all at once or a one time conversation but after the initial conversation, there was now opportunity to have further conversations as warranted.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 12:06 AM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Hi NewStart

My exWH's affairs were exposed to our children...they were younger than your children are now. Personally, I would never refer to an affair partner as a gf or bf. One day my children with have a bf or gf and I don't want them to ever associate such a title with anything bad or filthy.


As with all names/titles there are good people and bad people attached to them.
Your logic must mean we can not call people a priest because of the ones that were Chesters.

So if you take away the BF/GF you then leave F buddy, lover. Affair partner then requires to explain what an affair partner is and what is done with the AP.

Then I guess we can't use BF because of all the BF's that beat their GF's.

BF/GF is direct, simple, requires no explanations. Then it also teaches that there are the right way and wrong way to have a BF/GF. Further connecting how to be the right kind of BF/GF.

Talk about a valuable teachable moment without going into great detail.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Your logic must mean we can not call people a priest because of the ones that were Chesters.

No that is not my logic. A priest is a priest, a teacher is a teacher or a doctor is a doctor if they have done the work/education to earn that title. Apple and oranges.

Quote
So if you take away the BF/GF you then leave F buddy, lover. Affair partner then requires to explain what an affair partner is and what is done with the AP.

There are plenty of people who do not explain much to their children...and of course age is a consideration. I wouldn't recommend calling an AP a F buddy to young children...although it would probably be a lot more accurate than gf/bf. Some posters dislike the AP being referred to as lover, paramour, etc. I don't like calling an AP, gf or bf and explained *my* reasoning. If anyone wants to call an AP, bf or gf, to each his own but I *personally* would not. OP wanted suggestions and I gave mine.

Quote
Then I guess we can't use BF because of all the BF's that beat their GF's.

dontknow

Quote
BF/GF is direct, simple, requires no explanations. Then it also teaches that there are the right way and wrong way to have a BF/GF. Further connecting how to be the right kind of BF/GF.

If bf/gf required no explanation then why would anyone have to explain/connect more? dontknow This contradicts the very next sentence.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 02:20 AM
I tend to agree with blackraven and I have heard Dr Harley say not to refer to them as "boyfriend" "girlfriend" because that is an innocent title. They are nothing more than adultery partners. Dr Harley gets beat up all the time for using the word "lover" and he has agreed to stop it. [although I have heard him slip!!! grin ]
Posted By: black_raven Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 04:12 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Dr Harley say not to refer to them as "boyfriend" "girlfriend" because that is an innocent title.

That was the term I was looking for...an innocent title. Yeah...no.
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 05:40 AM
Your discussions are very good. I plan to attempt this visit with my kids this weekend. They have seen the title of the site here as I was trying to register and figure it out. Also they are in tuned to the book title I am reading, His Needs, Her Needs. My daughter says she thinks I am probably getting married now, although I have no man in my life. smile simple mind. A talk with them will even clear up these questions as well.
I liked the bf/gf way of saying it when it was first mentioned, but then saw other explanations on why not to. I am on the fence on that. Lover or affair partner may raise more in depth questions. To my knowledgable 12 yr old, sex is understood. To my 10 yr she doesn't know what it really means and that is a good thing. Wouldn't you expect the word affair to draw more questions? Can I explain it without saying sex was part of it?
I think telling them soon while my mind is set on this is best. I don't want to even tell my parents or the close friends that know of the affair my plans. I think they might show reservation on speaking up to the kids. This has to be my choice without influence...other than every one here smile The support here is wonderful. I don't expect all sunshine and happy words 100% because I know I made a bad choice and need to take the consequences that go along with it.
Making a point of it being a learning experience, that I don't wish for them to fall in the same trap in their future, is huge motivation also.
I never imagined a couple years ago that I would be wanting to do this at my own will and this soon.
Fingers crossed everyone... I hope it goes well. As well as it can I guess.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 05:46 AM
Did you listen to these radio clips? The Harleys discuss this.

Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Excellent thread Susie. I hope posters will also post their experiences also.

The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Telling the kids about the affair when and how it should be done.
Radio Clip on Telling the Children
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 06:46 AM
I started to last night but it was late and I kept dozing off. Lol I will do that tomorrow when kids are busy with friends. Thanks for the links!
Posted By: TheLongRun Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 07:31 AM
I agree that it's damaging to children for adults to refer to an AP in innocent, benevolent terms, as "girlfriend" or "boyfriend", as though AP had been a peer to you the adult, in your child's preadolescent frame of reference.

The other children they see and meet in their lives can potentially be "boyfriends" or "girlfriends" for them, and that should not be tainted.

Mommies and Daddies don't have boyfriends and girlfriends.

"Person that Mommy/Daddy had an inappropriate relationship with", "an untrue friend", "my former boss at work", "our old neighbor", "a friend I had who turned out to be mean", "a person I was involved with who didn't respect our family"...

Adultery involves adults.

To explain to children what happened to them and their family, with clarity and simplicity (and to preserve innocent context), must not impose on their age-appropriate association with their "girlfriends" or "boyfriends" that they (your kids) will meet and like at school, or soccer, or playing outside, etc.

Terminology for children should not equate your AP (former or present) with any of their formative pre-adolescent relationships with kids of the opposite sex to whom they are attracted. It could only serve to confuse them.

Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 01:59 PM
I like the possible descriptions you put in quotes and using a couple would even work in telling them. I don't want to ruin the idea of bf/gf for them in the future so I will be careful regarding those terms.

I can bet that this will put the pieces together and they will understand the events we have been through and the bitterness they still see in their dad.

My ex managed to get the guy fired from his banking position and also as far as we know had his black belt in martial arts compromised. My ex immediately went to the OMW and told her that same day. She said this would be the 4th time he had done that but to my knowledge she is still married to him. Crazy if you ask me.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
Wouldn't you expect the word affair to draw more questions? Can I explain it without saying sex was part of it?

The word affair or adultery may draw more questions. If it doesn't, you can ask them if they understand what that word (whichever you use) means and bring it up that way. That is how things played out when I spoke to my children.

Exposure #1 took place when my children were 6 and 8. DS8 was preparing for his First Communion when Dday1 happened so The Ten Commandments were fresh in his mind and gave me more of an "in" to bring up adultery. Back then they didn't know the technical specifics of sex but they had their ideas of what it meant and it was enough for them to understand that what their dad and OW1 did was wrong. They did understand that OW had been naked with their dad. They were more upset with OW than WH which is probably typical.

Exposure #2 happened when they were 8 and 10. A little more detail was provided since they were older.

I didn't call either OW an adultery partner, lover, etc. They were told who she was...name, how she knew their dad (work, old classmate), etc. Dad had an affair with (insert). They had met OW2 in person so they knew who I was talking about. SInce your children know who OM is, you can just refer to him as their old karate instruction, Joe Blow.

Don't overthink it too much. My exposure convos lasted maybe five mins, tops. You don't have to go on and on. If they have questions they may ask and if they don't, ask them if they have any and/or tell them if they have any later that they can come talk to you. I would also apologize to them as well.

Good luck!!! smile
Posted By: black_raven Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
I can bet that this will put the pieces together and they will understand the events we have been through and the bitterness they still see in their dad.

My ex managed to get the guy fired from his banking position and also as far as we know had his black belt in martial arts compromised. My ex immediately went to the OMW and told her that same day. She said this would be the 4th time he had done that but to my knowledge she is still married to him. Crazy if you ask me.

I would suggest you do not use the word "bitter" to describe their dad...ever. Your ex has every reason to be angry with you and OM. You don't need to get into discussion about OM and his wife either...other than describing OM as a dirtbag and his BW as a woman you both hurt, I would not go down that road.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
I can bet that this will put the pieces together and they will understand the events we have been through and the bitterness they still see in their dad.

My ex managed to get the guy fired from his banking position and also as far as we know had his black belt in martial arts compromised. My ex immediately went to the OMW and told her that same day. She said this would be the 4th time he had done that but to my knowledge she is still married to him. Crazy if you ask me.

I applaud your husband for reporting the OM to his employer and getting his black belt compromised. If the OM was fired it was because he committed adultery. Most employers do not want to employ liars and cheaters. Your XH did the right thing.

Your affair was the greatest tragedy of your husbands life. It was the worst thing that ever happened to him, so of course he will have hard feelings about it. I would try to show some empathy for him.
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 03:22 PM
I apologize if I come across careless to my XH, sometimes typed conversation doesn't always convey as it is meant. He and I did try to work thru things and after that exposure we actually had the best intimate connection we ever had had. Finding it odd to feel that after the exposure, our counselor said that it does happen that way. All of a sudden all secrets and reasons for holding back are cleared and you can enjoy each other completely again, if there is interest to try to work thru it. It just wasn't possible long term, so we ended it.

Being on this side of the coin, I do not know really how he is feeling but I can imagine it is a terrible feeling. You are right, maybe I need to be more sensitive to the deep wounds and empathize more.

I don't take anyone's advice or thoughts lightly here. I do appreciate the insight you are providing me. Coming here with arms up to fight is silly, people like me stopping by for support, knowing there is fault on my part, cannot expect anyone to high five them. Growing and learning and changing permanently for the future is my goal. Reality sometimes comes in the form of hard truths. I get that.

I don't plan to speak of the OM's life or wife, just to tell who he was. His daughter was a babysitter to my kids as well. The involvement I allowed of that guy into our family life is disheartening to think of. frown
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Telling children the truth - 04/12/14 03:23 PM
NS, what stopped you and your H from trying to reconcile? Did you try?
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/13/14 04:39 AM
We did try. We went to a marriage counselor for a couple months. He told me he knew I had changed my way and would probably make the best wife in the future. But he kept having triggers that would bring up reminders. He would see a vehicle like the OM had and would get angry again. He would drive by the bank he worked at and would be back to ground zero. He told me he never knew what or when it might happen and when it did he would explode. All along, before the split or even the affair, he seemed to have two sides to him and could flip instantaneously, without warning.
A long time family friend of ours, 75 yrs old and married for 50+ said the only way to move forward, together or apart, would be for my XH to forgive me. Not for my sake but for his own self. I don't know the truth to that but my H said he would never be able to forgive me for that. I eventually didn't take the offers to "meet for lunch" any more as it was not doing anything for us other than satisfying the intimate needs. I had that with the OM and it left me feeling empty and used and had no desire to continue that same bad feeling with my H. And at the same time he was hanging out with younger girls in another crowd of people. I was done with that part of life. Never again would i share relationships with others. I vow to have only one person in my life when that right person comes along.

Well, my talk didn't happen today...tomorrow it will be....
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/13/14 04:42 AM
Read what Dr. Harley says about forgiveness.
What is Just Compensation?
Posted By: Gamma Re: Telling children the truth - 04/14/14 01:01 AM
NewStart,

. He would drive by the bank he worked at and would be back to ground zero

Did you consider moving? Many people on here do and it helps to remove them from triggers.

Perhaps it's too late, but your children are a compelling reason to try to reconcile with your ex H, no one will be as good a father to your children as your ex.

Simple question have you ever truly apologized to your exH?

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/14/14 04:04 AM
About moving - he owns a business in the city we live and part of that is to go to offices throughout the city to pick up and deliver things when needed. Moving to any part of town would not have mattered and leaving the city all together wasn't an option in our case. Although I have to say that never was even mentioned at that time. Reading things and talking to others since then I have learned a lot. I really don't think we could go back as a couple again. I have entertained that thought in the past, as life together for the kids sake would be so much better. Being at this point in life now, I don't have the desire to return to a relationship with him.

I have apologized and have meant it sincerely but he won't accept it. He feels everything I say is made up to make myself sound better. Not true, but it is best to just let it go and not get the angry emotions worked up again. Peace is what I am striving for now.
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/14/14 04:27 AM
Update on the kiddos -

Earlier in the day, I told the kids that when they had finished watching their movie we would sit down and have a little talk. My 10 yr old daughter had a theory already worked up on what it would be. I am getting married or we were going to Disney World. I don't have any guy friends that even come around the kids so the marriage one was really far fetched.

I said I wanted to be honest with them about life and the reason we were living in the situation we were in. Saying that I knew they had asked questions that I had just dodged before by saying they were too young. I felt this was their life and their right to know the truthful side. I explained that while I was married I had another relationship with another man and that is not something okay to do. Marriage is when you only have a relationship with the one you married. I said I was very wrong in allowing that. I told them who it was and did use the word affair. My son understood it a his best friend's neighbors just went through that too. My daughter did not until she asked if it meant cheating. With that information, she understood at her level at least. I said I wanted my very bad mistake to be a lesson for them to know that this act is never acceptable and that it ends in divorce and people suffer. I apologized to them for being the reason that we are living the divorced life. My son said that their dad had not mentioned this yet, only told them they would know one day when they are older. I told them they are old enough to know and should know, assuring them that they were not a reason this happened. It was wrapped up in under 15 minutes and I told them it is not something I like to run around and talk about to everyone but if they had questions they should always feel free to ask anytime.
The only question that came up later by my son was wondering if his dad caught me doing it and that how he knew. I said no, that someone else had told him.

The kids were very close to me the rest of the night. Wanting to cuddle and be in the same room for the evening. That was a good sign, I think.

Thank you for everyone's advice and support in this honest move forward. I am glad that has been done. Open and honest with our children is so important.

I am so glad I was introduced to this site!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Telling children the truth - 04/14/14 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
. Being at this point in life now, I don't have the desire to return to a relationship with him.

I have apologized and have meant it sincerely but he won't accept it. He feels everything I say is made up to make myself sound better. Not true, but it is best to just let it go and not get the angry emotions worked up again. Peace is what I am striving for now.

Well why should he forgive you?
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Telling children the truth - 04/14/14 05:01 AM
Since your Ex-H has held onto your secret, i feel that you might consider contacting him in writing to let him know that you discussed the affair with your children, plus reveal the extent and content that you conveyed to them so he feels you did not sweep the enormity of the situation under the rug.

He should be aware and prepared for the possibility that the kids may bring up questions to him when and if they feel the need to do so.

Who knows, this Action on your part may have a substantial impact on his long held triggers and resentments, hopefully in a positive manner.

LTL
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Telling children the truth - 04/14/14 05:18 AM
Here is a short story for you:

I remember overhearing kids one time fussing on the playground. One of them was always annoying the other. The first kid said, "I'm sorry!"

The second kid said, "Don't be sorry; Be Different."

.

Well, just maybe, your Ex-H may finally see that you are not just saying you are sorry, no matter how heart felt you were, but finally see that you are trying to be different.

Keep improving!!!

LTL
Posted By: TheLongRun Re: Telling children the truth - 04/14/14 06:26 AM
I commend you for opening up dialogue with your children , and for being honest and naming the person with whom you hurt their father.
When you talk to your EXH please let him know your affair was not his fault, and that you didn't do it because he was inadequate, but because you made a mistake. You might not understand that a betrayed spouse internalizes feelings of not being good enough. I see that there may have been past issues with his anger that may have hurt you. Not saying that to excuse any trauma you may have been through, but could that be part of why you didn't reconcile?
of course he's bitter. He has every right to be. Tell him he did not deserve the pain you caused him. Tell him you made a mistake, and it was your shortcoming and not his.
Not trying to make you feel as though you're being punished. Helping him heal will help you both move forward
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/15/14 05:25 AM
It is an interesting idea to let him know what I have told them. It crossed my mind but then I let it go.

I like the "don't be sorry, be different" concept. I think I might use that on my kids when the moments arise for it.

If telling him that it was my wrong doing not his might help him heal, it would be a good thing worth trying. Maybe he needs to hear me say it very directly.

He is a very angry and intense person and is much better but still explodes at the kids...not that long ago was so mad that he punched a hole in the bathroom door at his house when he was upset with them. I don't feel he would ever hurt them, but his anger does come out in other ways when the fire is on.

I just wish for peace and less anxiety on his part. Maybe that side of things takes years or decades to heal? He has a girlfriend and says he is happy in life, but this still affects him I believe.

Still today, I feel good about my decision to talk to the kids. When there is no anxiety after, you know you made the right choice. Like the weight has lifted a little more.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Telling children the truth - 04/15/14 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Since your Ex-H has held onto your secret, i feel that you might consider contacting him in writing to let him know that you discussed the affair with your children, plus reveal the extent and content that you conveyed to them so he feels you did not sweep the enormity of the situation under the rug.

He should be aware and prepared for the possibility that the kids may bring up questions to him when and if they feel the need to do so.

Who knows, this Action on your part may have a substantial impact on his long held triggers and resentments, hopefully in a positive manner.

LTL

Still keeping secrets from a BH is still being a WW. Even when he is your XBH. First is was your affair with your OM. Now you have replaced the OM with his and your kids.

I do not fault you for telling the kids. Do not set your BH to find out on his own.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Telling children the truth - 04/16/14 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Do not set your BH to find out on his own.

x2

I would tell him that you told the children the truth. Being blindsided sucks and usually brings out more anger. You had the chance to prepare what you wanted to say to the children...I would give him the same courtesy vs letting him have another Dday of sorts. Be brief and direct then leave it alone.
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/17/14 04:42 AM
The point of letting it go and him finding out on his own could be an anger reaction from him. I think a short note to say it was done and leave it be might work.

My parents were very supportive when I told them that I had given some explanation to the kids. They thought I had done it as best possible for the scenario and subject.

All your advice here in this chat was extremely helpful. Thank you again!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/17/14 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
The point of letting it go and him finding out on his own could be an anger reaction from him. I think a short note to say it was done and leave it be might work.

My parents were very supportive when I told them that I had given some explanation to the kids. They thought I had done it as best possible for the scenario and subject.

All your advice here in this chat was extremely helpful. Thank you again!
You definitely need to tell your XH some how and some way.
Posted By: catwhit Re: Telling children the truth - 04/17/14 05:51 PM
Telling him yourself (and not in writing) will give him a chance to ask questions.

(What, exactly, did you say to them? How did they react? Did they have any questions?... etc.)

Telling him this way will also show that you are willing to accept the consequences of your A.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Telling children the truth - 04/18/14 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
The point of letting it go and him finding out on his own could be an anger reaction from him. I think a short note to say it was done and leave it be might work.

I would tell him in a note but I would also address the info that cat brought up...

"(What, exactly, did you say to them? How did they react? Did they have any questions?... etc.)"

By short, I meant that it didn't have to go on and on and on with all sorts of fluff, details and perhaps what can turn into emotional rambling but I do think you should provide some specifics and not just a note that says FYI I told the kids about my affair...the end.

How do you usually communicate with your ex?

As a BS, I would want this disclosure in writing from my ex...that way there is no "I didn't say that" later or miscommunication....that's me though. Not saying you would do that but HE will have that assurance when it is in black and white for him to look at. My two cents.

Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/18/14 03:27 AM
We communicate only by text and if it is more "for the record" important stuff it is via email. We do not speak anymore, only in a rare emergency situation regarding kids that needs immediate reaction. So, talking to him is out. An email may be the route.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Telling children the truth - 04/18/14 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
We communicate only by text and if it is more "for the record" important stuff it is via email. We do not speak anymore, only in a rare emergency situation regarding kids that needs immediate reaction. So, talking to him is out. An email may be the route.
When will you be sending it?
Posted By: catwhit Re: Telling children the truth - 04/18/14 04:15 AM
Originally Posted by NewStart128
We communicate only by text and if it is more "for the record" important stuff it is via email. We do not speak anymore, only in a rare emergency situation regarding kids that needs immediate reaction. So, talking to him is out. An email may be the route.

Makes sense, NewStart.

How about including a sentence at the end, "Please let me know if you would like further details or have any questions about this."
Posted By: NewStart128 Re: Telling children the truth - 04/19/14 12:48 AM
When is a good question. I think next week is a good time, get through the weekend. He has them this weekend and I don't want them to be drilled with questions right when he gets my message. Kids will be with me all next week so I think I will wait until then.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Telling children the truth - 04/19/14 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by catwhit
Originally Posted by NewStart128
We communicate only by text and if it is more "for the record" important stuff it is via email. We do not speak anymore, only in a rare emergency situation regarding kids that needs immediate reaction. So, talking to him is out. An email may be the route.

Makes sense, NewStart.

How about including a sentence at the end, "Please let me know if you would like further details or have any questions about this."


And be prepared for an angry response. He quite possibly won't like that you unilaterally did this. I'm glad you did and it sounds like it went well enough but he's probably going to be mad. There is a lot of shame in being a BH. The fact his children now know may embarrass him. He likely thinks/thought that shouldn't know until they are adults in college or later when contemplating marriage. It's good you don't talk. Be slow to respond to any upset he expresses and allow people here to help you think through a response before you send it.

It's good you told the kids to keep it a secret but please realize this will likely need to be reemphasized from time to time. Notice how your son is aware of a neighbors marriage??? You've now made this part of their life story and they will likely feel entitled (as teenagers do) to share facts about their life with today (and tomorrow's) best friends. It's a part of teenage angst. Expect that you will need to revisit the sensitive nature of this information from time to time. This is another part of a good lesson about owning your mistakes, forgiveness and repentance.

Mr. W

Posted By: clark_kent Re: Telling children the truth - 04/19/14 04:42 PM
Wayward Thread. Secrets again! No wonder your xH is triggering. No POJA. No RH. No JC. Still doing what ever makes you feel good. Did you ever think that maybe your xH didn't want this right now. Of course not. Do what ever you want. No wonder you don't have peace and quite. You keep being wayward. It almost seems like you want to Recover (maybe not your marriage), but you need to follow Harley's principles in dealing with your xH. No matter what happens in the future you will always have a relationship with your xH, because of the children. Following the principles will give you that peace and quite. You should be reading SAA, to get some idea of what you have done to your xH.
Posted By: reading Re: Telling children the truth - 04/19/14 07:52 PM

The truth is best revealed to the children.
Even if the betrayed ex doesn't agree.

Indeed, it had to be factually spoken to 'exorcize' it and whatever happens now is the path to a better future for the kids.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Telling children the truth - 04/20/14 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by reading
The truth is best revealed to the children.
Even if the betrayed ex doesn't agree.

Indeed, it had to be factually spoken to 'exorcize' it and whatever happens now is the path to a better future for the kids.

The main reason for exposing to the kids is so they learn this as a life lesson: That Adultery DESTROYS families.
Burn that impression into them, so they will hopefully NEVER commit adultery in their own future marriages
Posted By: Hawk Re: Telling children the truth - 04/21/14 04:37 PM
Being honest is always best. Being a parent comes first. It does not sound like you dealt with this like a parent. It sounds like you only did what you wanted to do one more time and that was serve yourself.

Once a cheater always a cheater. Your still lieing and he has every right to hate you. Once the kids get older and really understand what you did and continues to do they will decide for themselves.

My son was a mommas boy to the core. They have not relationship now. Sure he loves her. She he goes to see her but anything other than that is dead. Once he is on his own I doubt he will ever really have any kind of a relationship with her. I do hate her. I always will but I did everything I could to fix this and help him rebuild his relationship with her. Like you she only continued to do stupid things and hes sharp too.

Good luck with your kids. Sounds like you are going to need it.

Clay
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Telling children the truth - 04/21/14 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by Hawk
Once a cheater always a cheater.

This is not true.
Many posters here on this forum and throughout the world had an affair, followed the program of MB recovery and have not cheated since.
Posted By: clark_kent Re: Telling children the truth - 04/21/14 06:48 PM
@reading and @jedi you both are absolutely right. I misspoke, the children should be made aware of the affair.

I was trying to convey that maybe she should have communicated xH before just arbitrarily making this decision. Maybe he would have liked to tell them? But of course now he can't.

This, I believe was more about her being the "adult", "calm one", and "moving forward" for her future marriage using MB.
Posted By: SwH Re: Telling children the truth - 04/23/14 03:39 AM
The kids know that something is wrong, best to tell them the truth. My husband was the WS, and I did my best to protect the kids. I too use to tell them adult stuff. One at a time, they told me they knew, or they came right out and asked me. I told them the truth when they asked. Mine were older than yours when I told them. Each responded differently. My oldest felt that I lied to him, now he is better about it and understands that I was trying to protect him, my middle one took it in stride, like he does everything and my youngest thinks dad is scum.
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