Hi!
My story is:
Married 8 1/2 years, 6 year old son, 15 month old daughter
Good but not perfect marriage for the past 8 years. the past 5 months have been horrible.
Last August my husband took a job out of state. We considered moving as a family but decided against (I regret that big time).
Husband works out of state Monday through Thursday, back home thursday night and home through the weekend leaving Monday morning.
November we had our first big fight that had my husband suggesting trial separation. I was SHOCKED. We've fought hard before but never has the D word come up.
We keep coming back together but he grows more and more distant and right now he "doesn't know" if he wants to be with me. When he is home he isn't really "home." He is mean and exhausted often. No, there isn't another- I have checked into it. But he has started watching porn when he is away which I know has added to the distance. He is unbelievably stressed as this is a high power position and the company is tanking.
At our last "make-up" I suggested we move together as a family but he doesn't want that anymore because we've been fighting too much, he doesn't like the state he is working in and says he likes leaving and coming 'home.' Whenever we fight he goes straight to "we shouldn't be together." It just hurts too much to hear this all the time.
I just started private coaching with Dr. Harley (today was my first call) and I hope I can get SO on board to coach with me/Dr. Harley.
But, if not, and because he goes to separation so often so quickly, I'd like to prepare a Plan A/B ahead of time. I think it will give me strength.

Any advice/sample letters without an affair greatly appreciated.

I assume you are couching with Dr Harley's son Steve Harley?

Did he give you any help or suggestions for bringing your husband on board with MB? Coaching?

Also, welcome to MB. I'm sorry you are in distress.

Welcome to MB.

What advice did Steve Harley give you?

Thank you both-

My fist step is getting my husband on board with coaching. So that is the goal this weekend. Yes, he gave me some pretty straightforward (and genius) things to say- I feel fairly confident that he will at least call and coach with him....
I'd just like to be prepared if he doesn't.

SFL,

Dr. Harley does not suggest that women remain in a Plan A for a very long time. In cases of an active affair, he would suggest women move to Plan B after three weeks. Without an active affair he might suggest giving it a little longer, but not months or years.

I would let your husband know that in order to keep you, he needs to stop watching porn and commit to no nights apart. That means his job must go, or he must take you with you. There is no way to make this work if he maintains the right to do either of those things. Steve Harley may be able to help persuade him of the importance of making these changes. You might also want to contact Steve's father, Dr. Harley, on the Marriage Builders Radio show: mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

Also, SFL, you've got to stop fighting with him! That is a mandatory part of Plan A no matter what the situation and no matter how short or long it is. Do not be demanding, disrespectful, or angry toward him. Simply let him know what your complaints are and what it will take to keep you as his wife (quit the porn and the nights apart). You don't have to be demanding, disrespectful, or angry to do this. For example, don't tell him how disgusting or sinful porn use is - stick to the fact that it hurts you terribly and is unacceptable to you and that psychologists like Dr. Harley say it causes a contrast effect that makes you less desirable to him. As another example, don't blow up at him, call him names, punish him, etc. If he says he's not going to do these things, let that be his choice, and then you do what you have to do to protect yourself - move to Plan B.

You can do the whole thing without one single disrespectful or angry word, even though you are hurting dearly because of his behavior. You can, should, and must let him know that you are hurting terribly, but do not try to make him feel what you feel or demonstrate by getting upset (angry).

Are there any sample Plan B letters that aren't because of an affair?

His reasoning for not wanting me to go with him is because he ates the state, the job is tumultuous (not knowing if it's going to end in 2 months or a year)

I'm not sure how to prepare Plan B when he already is separated from us MOnday through Thursday. Basically what he'd lose is seeing me at all on the weekends, talking to me at all (which is currently very minimal) and he'd lose Friday with the kids and sunday (because my terms would be that he can come and get kids from a 2nd person Friday at 5 and bring them back to me Saturday before bedtime.) Financially he is the complete breadwinner So this would be a separation with no change in financial situation. Is that possible?

SFL,

Welcome to MB and I'm so sorry that you are going through such a hard time. I think all the advice you are getting is wonderful.

The only advice I would give you is don't over think it just listen to Dr. Harley and if you pray, pray before you do what he tells you to do.

I know how you feel, I have felt the same way like I need to get a lot of advice so that I could control what is happening with my marriage. What I have found is when I get a lot of advice from a lot of different people it can make me unsure of what to do. I even have found that I start taking bits and pieces from everyone which doesn't seem to work.

It's like learning how to drive, one instructor is tell you to do it in this way, while others are giving different directions to do the same thing and when the time comes you choke.

I'm a man that reads a Bible a lot an it does say a wise man has many advisers and I believe that to be true. I just want you to listen to Dr. Harley and if you are unclear how to do what he a has advised then post the advice and let us help you with following that advice. Of course if you are unsure the advice is the wises for you and your husband, and want a sounding board to make sure you are doing the right thing let us help with that.

I so wish you success and we are here for you even if you just need to vent because you are not able to vent to your husband right now. Just make sure you say you are
venting in your post so we know you just need to know you are not crazy in what you are feeling and that you don't need advice right now.

Are you legally married?
Why do you call him your significant other?

He is probably having an affair.
A man that is gone for 4 days usually loves to be home..I used to spend a third of the year out of town and I loved getting home.

I encourage you to snoop and see if he is having an affair

Then again, it's entirely possible that his emotional needs are not being met, it could be that he's sacrificing the most important ones for the financial stability of the household - that would be my guess if he (as SFL says) hates where he's working. Is Financial Support one of your top ENs? Is it one of his? Why spend youth seeking wealth, then wealth seeking youth?

My grandfather, on the other hand, just loved his job and was cranky when he wasn't working. He actually retired, then decided he had to go back to work because he was miserable. Not because Gram wasn't a wonderful housekeeper and wife, but he just lived for his work. It doesn't sound like this is the case with you two.

The doctor will probably suggest a survey of your respective emotional needs. Even doing one for yourself would be enlightening. I realized that the one I thought was highest wasn't really up there very far, when I really looked at what would make me happy without any of the other ENs being met. You might even find that what he's focusing on most is your lowest priority, and vice versa.

Discord, there are a couple of cardinal MB rules being broken here: spending the night apart and having a job that does not complement the marriage. Those are a big no no.

The most important emotional needs that are being neglected here are the INTIMATE emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. THOSE are the key emotional needs that create romantic love in a marriage. FS and DS and other minor needs do not support the foundation of the marriage.

But none of that is relevant if they are not spending every night together and spending UA time together. It is impossible to sustain romantic love under these conditions.

Hi, I've posted before but now have new info. I currently started working with Steve Harley but am just beginning doing "Love Busters." We have been pretty rocky over the past 6 months with hubs wanting "out" (but not really) several times. I say not really because he never pulls the trigger. These past 2 weeks have been pretty darn good, but this weekend I discovered that a woman he works closely with calls him "Babe" and "sweetie" and says "I miss you." and even called him leaving a teary message saying "Sweetie... I love you so much." Now believe it or not I know for a fact they are not having an affair. She is "trouble" and nothing physical has happened. I don't want to tell my hubs that I know the above because he doesn't know I know his cell phone code. What do I do with this information? He has never cheated on me but he is letting this type of language happen. I know this gives him something. Do I proceed with the program/coaching with Steve and when we get to a better place, then ask him to quit letting this be? Or do I treat this as an "affair" even though this is the extent of it? Any advice appreciated. Thank you!

This is an affair. Why do you think it isn't?

Any woman who tells a married man she loves him and misses him is having an affair.

Have you looked up his online phone account to see how much they are communicating?

Also, hit Notify to have your thread moved to SAA.

Do you have the book SAA?

Please read these.
Start Here First-SAA

HI- I appreciate your help but Everything I have listed is all that it is. I know for a fact that nothing physical has happened. So, if they text and she communicates like this- is that considered an affair? Just want to be clear. I don't think "exposing" that she texts like that at the workplace or to friends, etc. would be truly taken as an affair. I have snooped and snooped, plus he is scared to death of Sexual harassment and has even gone so far as to make sure they are never alone together. So the extent of it, is, fully, that she talks to him that way.
Please advise.
Thank you.

Why is she texting his personal device if it's work related? Why doesn't he report her for crossing the line?

What are HIS responses to her? What does he text her?

- It is his only phone. He doesn't report her because I'm sure he enjoys it to some extent.

- If she says "I miss you!" he says, "me too."

Again, their inappropriate relationship of her calling him babe, etc. (and him not telling her not to) is the extent of it.

We are already barely moving forward and I think we aren't in a healthy enough place for me to ask that he stop it. Was thinking I should move forward with building (why I put it in Marriage Builders section) and then, when we are both "on board" with moving forward, that would be a definite Love Buster that needs to stop? But any advice if that doesn't sound right is welcomed!

If it's not physical it soon will be. There's no way they haven't had some kind of physical contact, such as kissing. Have you ever exchanged I love you's with someone you'd never touched?

I appreciate you've snooped but we've seen affairees who make the PA happen at work, on lunch or via email and webcam.

If he can't fend off her emotional advances then he can't fend off the physical ones either. He does get something out of it I'm afraid.

The fact you say 'possible' EA tells me you are downplaying this in this in your shock. They are communicating like lovers. You have PROOF of an EA. Enough to expose.

It really doesn't matter whether an affair is physical or not,, the plan to kill it remains the same. Expose, demand NC, plan A and plan B.

You may have a shot to prevent this going physical but you won't have long. Do not dilly dally.



This affair is the cause of your marital problems. You cannot make love bank deposits when an OP is too. Your H's natural response will be to keep your marriage in trouble as a justification while enjoying the cheap admiration of a trouble free idyll. All unexposed affairs are trouble free idylls.

You won't make progress while this affair lives.

I don't think he is a passive recipient but if he is, and you have got a pro mistress targeting him you cannot delay. She won't stop until she has him and your marriage is so vulnerable she will succeed.

An important part of exposure is the workplace. Is your H her superior?

Is she married?

I think this is probably a full blown A because of your timidity in tackling it. Usually that means the WS has worked hard to make the betrayed feel unloved and timid.

I saw in your previous thread that your H asked for a trial separation.

You need to listen - your H is having an affair. People who ask for separations or "space" have someone waiting in the wings. Dr Harley has said it and it's what we have seen over and over and over again here on the MB forums.

What we also see frequently is a poster who is in denial that there is an affair, they swear on a stack of bibles that they have snooped, that they just know there isn't one etc. And they always come back later and tell us that we were right.

You can't know everything because THEY WORK TOGETHER.

It's not a coincidence that you found out this woman is telling your H she loves him and you have been having marital issues for the past six months.

And I am very sorry to tell you that this has already gone physical.

This has been going on for some time (at least six months), she has said she loves him and they work together = plenty of opportunity.

Do you have a GPS and a VAR in his car? If not, I would QUIETLY get that set up pronto.

Threads merged. Please stay on one thread.

Denial is a real big problem with BSs. I can't tell you how many posters over the years I have seen say this the same thing to only come back and say, Oops, you guys were right and I was wrong.

Your husband is out of town from M-Thursday every week? So he has opportunity to cheat.

What spyware tools do you have in place?

They are having an affair and it is most likely physical too. Who is this woman?

SFL, if you want to save your marriage, it is very important that you wake up and put a stop to this affair. That means you expose the affair at his workplace and to all your friends and family. Go find the OW on facebook and see if she is married. Expose to her family and friends.

The longer you ignore the affair, the more entrenched it becomes. You have been in denial for a very long time and every day that goes by, your risk of divorce increases. You need to act quickly.

That IS an affair! You just described an affair.

Are you saying that because they supposedly haven't had sex it's not an affair? An emotional affair is every bit as much of an affair and every bit as damaging. Of course, you don't know that it hasn't gotten physical yet - and it probably has.

Don't tell yourself that a woman calling to tell your husband she loves him and misses him is somehow not an affair!

SFL, where does your husband sleep during the week when he gone?

If some man were texting my wife calling her babe and I love/miss you, I would make it very clearly known he was to cease contact with my wife. You're lacking bboundaries by allowing this inappropriate conversation to continue. The longer you continue this to happen, the deeper it's going to get. He obviously enjoys it and is going to want more and more.

SFL, a question for you: How do you think affairs develop?

I'm basically retired from posting, but your post was such that I thought I should jump in, as a man who was formerly in an emotional affair that became a physical affair, to help confirm that what you describe bears all the hallmarks of an ongoing emotional affair.

Here's not simply what I believe, but what I know for a fact, based on what you've described: Even in the best-case scenario, your husband enjoys this woman's affirmation & attention enough so that he doesn't tell her to knock off her absolutely inappropriate communication. He likes it, and likes her, at least enough so that he's keeping the door open for more (whatever that may turn out to be), and he's aware-enough of what he's up to that he has concealed it from you (or has tried to do so). This adds up to: he's on a slippery slope to "more." This isn't in the territory of borderline, "might-be" an emotional affair; it's by-the-textbook, right-down-the middle-of-Broadway, very-definition-of an emotional affair. And ma'am, remember, that's your best-case scenario here. Other posters have speculated that your H's affair is already physical, which is also quite plausible.

You say, basically, that you're worried about other issues in your marriage, so you don't want to confront this affair. In fact, you're so frightened of confronting the affair that you're afraid even to admit that it's occurring (since I think you know that this would require confronting it).

Your marriage may well have issues that have nothing to do with this ongoing affair, but look at it this way: If someone undergoing rehab for a knee transplant happens to step on a rusty nail that goes through her foot, the fact that she's is in rehab for her knee wouldn't mean that she wouldn't also need a tetanus shot asap.

Do you think your marriage can be healed, that you & your husband can become emotionally close & in-sync, as long as there's a third party interloper in it; as long as your husband's emotional loyalties are divided as they obviously are?

I'll let you think it through, but please know that I've been where your husband is at, and I don't have to guess about the risks he's taking with your marriage, because my wife & I lived 'em firsthand.

You may confront these risks by exposing the affair, with admittedly no guarantee that doing so will save your marriage. Or you may ignore them, with the guarantee that doing so will allow the affair to blossom & probably kill your marriage (unless you're one of those rare folk who can long abide a spouse who's an active cheater). Or you can lay down your cards & end the marriage now. I appreciate that those aren't the choices you'd prefer to have, but those are the choices before you, and if you can attack the reality you've got, rather than 'reality' as you might wish it to be, you'll probably feel more in control of things & maybe improve your odds of achieving outcomes you want. Anyway, that's my 2 cents for ya.

Ok- I hear everyone loud and clear. Please trust I am not in denial. Reasons I know it hasn't been more than what is stated:
1) My husband's number one priority is his career. A friend of his at a past company got involved with a coworker (it was mutual) and she turned around and accused him of sexual harassment. It ruined his reputation and his career. That scared my husband to death. He won't even go to strip clubs or shmooze in a drunk/bar type manner because he's also seen that ruin people's work reputation. He has in the past, many times said he would never ever, get involved with anyone in the workplace because he is scared to death of what happened to his friend.
2) He is stated time and time again that he would never ever cheat on me and that he would break it off first before getting involved with anyone. (our troubles started before this woman started working with him.)
3) This woman is 'trouble.' I think he very much regrets even letting it get to this point because he has no time for the drama. He is very much not attracted to party type girls who have tons of boyfriends and present themselves in the way she presents herself on facebook and the like. In our good times he has constantly commented on a friend of mine who is like that saying he wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. He likes to be the only man period, and this girl will have guys going up to her whenever out because she's probably been with many of those men. He thinks that is very unattractive.

- that being said, I know it seems like it could turn into something more, but I am asking, please, humor me. Please let me know, even if you think odds are this or that- What should I do if it is indeed only inappropriate "babe" and I miss you?
I do know that he could certainly cut that off if he wanted to. I do know that he on some level is getting something out of even that. That has been a problem in the past. Once. He is a man of power in his profession and enjoys helping men and women because he can. He does indeed not need to 'help' her in the way he has (getting her a bonus, changing a bad review, etc.) and a big problem I have had is that he does those kinds of things. I am 100% sure she is using him, and being "extra nice" to him (like she is doing with a bunch of other men) to get him on her side to further her career.
Again, I don't think reporting the fact that she's texted "I can't wait to see you!" and "Babe?" and "I miss you" is going to be taken seriously. And I feel like when we get to a place where he is leaning more toward working on us, that I could bring it up and stop it in his tracks.

To answer other questions-
- he stays in a hotel when he's there.
- Our relationship started to be rocky because of the Lovebusters on my end of "angry outbursts" and the immense pressure he is feeling to have to make this job work. It is a make or break position for him and he is struggling. I haven't been making it easier by me constantly fighting with him and going off when he broke it to me that he has to turn Monday through Wednesday into Monday through Thursday because he needs to get this company turned around.

If anyone could please advise me on what to do with this information?

Sorry, but we can't humor you. You are really lying to yourself. This is an affair staring right in your face and you don't want to face it. The writing is on the wall. I won't ever cheat on you? Is there anyone who wrote in their vows they would? Save yourself here and get that head out of the sand

x2

sfl, my exWH had workplace affairs and said exactly all the things you just wrote...every single one....why he would never, ever in a million years cheat, lie, associate with x, y, z. A WS will risk his career, family, reputation when he is high on the affair crack...WSs do not care and don't think they will ever be caught to face consequences. You ARE in denial. You are helping to kill your own marriage if you don't wake up.

Who is this OW? Is she married?

As much as OW may be pig, your WH volunteered to be a participant too...be very clear on that. It sounds like you don't want to face a lot of truths.

Welcome to MB

SFL, I was the last guy you'd ever have thought would get into an affair. Afterwards, my friends told me so. My wife's friends told her so. I'd always been the complete boy-scout, good-dad, involved in my church, model employee, all o' that.

The whole time, at each step, I thought I could quit anytime I wanted.

And what I thought, and what others thought, and what I said & professed, were all at odds with the things I was actually doing & allowing.

And the OW wasn't even "my type" either. She was needy as all hell, and in the limited time I'd known her, I'd always found her kind of annoying. But I sure liked those affirmations I started getting from her once I started helping her out with practicing some music, or with some advice on dealing with parenting issues, and then suddenly I was listening to her complain about her marriage; and part of me enjoyed being confided in, being relied upon, being "helpful." There's that slippery slope your husband has ventured out onto. And maybe he even thinks he can put a stop to it anytime. Fact is, if he could've, he would've already. Unless the other lady is his mom, her messages have already crossed a clear line.

You're telling me what you think. Again, I'm telling you what I know.

OK. So, my advice for you is, continue to snoop. See what you find as time goes by. Just don't be too surprised.
Good luck.

Give me strength.

Do you think that those of us whose spouse cheated were warned by that spouse that they would cheat on us?

^^^This was my WH too...and many other WSs. While the company may certainly need his attention, he also gets more time to carry on his affair.

I don't think you should expose to the workplace just yet but are you snooping at all? You need to snoop.

Ok- take back 'humor me' could someone please advise as if this is indeed the case? The best case scenario? I have plan B letter all ready. But not sure 'exposing' just a few texts makes sense. I've been snooping and snooping. I'd like to hire a PI- but he is there Monday through Thursday and for the PI to stake out from 8am-11pm? for 4 days would be quite costly. Would also love to get spyware on his phone but he has updated to the latest 7.1 which is currently unable to be jailbroken.

Thinking maybe I could hire a PI from 6pm to 11pm only as odds are nothing would happen during work hours. That would still be costly and not an amount that I have in any account that is not joint.

Thank you- I appreciate your insight completely. This sucks.

No one is asking you to expose "just a few texts." This characterization is your denial of his affair. You are very deep in denial. Those texts are PROOF of an affair. An affair that you want to deny.


I think it will take you getting photos of them together at his place to wake you up so I think that is a great idea.

HOWEVER, you need to know more about the OW. Is she married? Where does she live? Does she have children? Go find this out TODAY so you can hire this PI to follow them more strategically.

She is a single, party girl with a couple of boyfriends, no children. Not sure of her address.

Have you confirmed this independently? Or is this something your husband has told you?

Does she have a facebook page? How old is she?

SFL, have you looked at his cell phone records to see how far this goes back and the level of activity? Do you have access to see his credit card activity or his expense reports?

Do you have any family who can watch your children? Perhaps you can fly out there yourself and do some snooping.

Can you go to where he is staying unannounced?

Hire a PI for when he's there?

Have you checked his online phone records, like I asked before?

What snooping have you done?

SFL, like Glove Oil I no longer post here, but do keep an eye on the threads. Your thread concerns me greatly, and I want to encourage you to listen to the posters here.

You have managed to convince yourself that there is nothing going on with your H and the OW. You'll have to disabuse yourself of that notion. Co-workers DON'T text to tell the OP that they "miss" each other, or that they (HELLO!) "LOVE" each other! It just doesn't happen.

In my sitch - my H was a high-level exec in a company that prided itself on its morals. He would NEVER has compromised that....until they hired a new secretary. He was the epitome of Mr. Upstanding...until he and OW started flirting, eventually destroyed their boundaries and decided it would be okay to sneak off during the day...

Her husband finally exposed the affair, and IT ENDED THAT DAY. He went into the office, packed up her stuff, and they left. He forced her to quit her job. My H was mortified, and we began the healing process. But that could only begin AFTER the affair ended.

You need to end your illusion that he is frightened by sexual harrassment - he's having an affair. My H knew the threat of sexual harrassment. It didn't stop him because he conveniently figured it didn't apply to him. He figured he was above all that. He knows differently now.

You also said that your H has sworn he would never cheat on you. I think we can agree that every spouse in the world would say the same thing, yes? That statement means NOTHING.

It would be helpful for the posters who are helping you to hear more about this OW. You've indicated that she's a woman with multiple boyfriends, no kids, etc. Where did you get this info? From your H? Don't bank on anything he says. You'll need to get confirmation about her on your own. There are a number of ways to do this - check out the Operation Investigate forum.

My main concern is that your WH is gone from Monday through Thursday. Good Lord! He has time to have a woman on the side,set up an second 'married life', impregnate her, have children on the side, and still be home on the weekend to see you. We've seen this many times on this site.

Please listen to the posters and do what they advise!

Please listen to theses clips.
Traveling Jobs

I'm so sorry SFL but thinking you're above temptation, and so allowing it is one of the biggest causes of affairs. That was my husband too. Nobody really plans this.

I agree, find out for yourself.

Your husband has been cultivating your mindset for some time. He wants you to feel unloved, timid and feel that this OW poses no temptation, but that she has no one to report her bad behaviour too, should you find out, either.

I've never seen a case where the OW was reported to be someone with people in her life. She is always reported to be entirely alone and with either casual boyfriends or an abusive or divorcing spouse.

These reports are pretty much never true.

The truth is, you have a lot of power and she likely has someone whose opinion matters.

Independently snooped. Facebook page. She is 34, no kids, single.

That is interesting. Supposedly her ex-boyfriend beat the [censored] out of her and is in jail. From Facebook page though- she has a boyfriend but it's not publicly announced because it's casual (lots of posts of expensive chimmy choo/ LB shoes and no pics of a particular man).

There usually is a report of an "abusive" husband/boyfriend in most OW's past. It helps the married man feel sorry for her. If you have access to her facebook page, I would start collecting information for exposure. Copy and paste her contact list into a text doc for safekeeping because once you start exposing she will take down her facebook page.

You should also bookmark her boyfriends FB page so you can expose to him.

Not able to fly out with 2 kids and no one to watch them.... I wouldn't like to stop by unannounced anyway as I'd like to do this discreetly and not give him a chance to say he is divorcing because I've embarrassed him or whatever. So I'd like to continue to snoop and build up as much info as I can. I have checked his phone records but I can no longer do that because his company has taken over the phone bill. She is his top sales person and goes and trips with him and the rest of the team. I have logged into his phone and facebook (from his phone only) and seen texts and email. No inappropriate emails just the texts I've described. I'd really like to hire a PI- anyone done this and could tell me the approximate amount it cost them for 4 days of PI work?

If you truly have no one to watch the kids........

take the whole crew to meet dad for a quality family time

There must be someone who could watch them for you? Parent of a friend of the eldest......call them at least for a recommendation of a mature sitter to stay with the kids during a 'family emergency'.

Ok wise MB'rs- big news.

My husband has been unable to fully commit to making our marriage work and for the past two weeks I haven't been intimate with him because I wasn't ready.

Last night we went our for a couple of drinks and we were flirting and having a great time. He wanted to get a room and I said that I wouldn't want that because of the above and because I needed him to be completely honest with me. He went a got a room and pulled me close and said "You are my wife for life (what he used to call me) and let's make this work." We had a great time and a great morning today.

Then, mid-day I questioned about the above co-worker, he said, "pur her aside- there is nothing there. But, I want to be completely honest with you so we can move forward. Last December, I told you about a woman (this woman was a vendor who no longer works with the company) that I had an inappropriate infatuation with. (He told me they had a couple of lunches and he was starting to develop feelings for her but nothing happened.) We did sleep together twice. I ended it. I just wanted to put it all on the table so we can move forward and since I made the commitment to you."

I am in shock and devastated. I left the house and told him to get a hotel so I didn't have to see him. Tomorrow he will be on his way out of state for his regular Monday through Thursday stint.

What do I do?? Where do I start? I know nothing about this woman because she isn't on Facebook. She is not married and has one child.

He is not begging for me back but is apologizing for previously lying to me. Right now I don't know if I want to be with him. and don't want to see him. I had previously (before knowing of his infidelity) written a "Plan B" letter spelling out how I wanted wanted to work on our marriage but wanted to separate completely until he was ready to commit, and that he could pick up the kids at school friday night and bring them back (with my father doing the exchange) Saturday night.

Please advise.

Thank You.

He's been having an affair. If he fully committed he'd have to quit.





This is great Plan Aing by you.

As for the rest of it, you know he's lying. You know he he is having at least an emotional affair with the woman he dismissed as nothing. She " misses" him because things she finds satisfying happen when they are together.

He's done so many bad things, fallen for someone, broke up his marriage for a fling, that the " trickle truth" he told you about this other woman doesn't even seem bad in comparison. It's common for way wards to trickle a tiny bit of the truth when asked for honesty. It's like a murderer admitting to a speeding ticket.

Even though what he confessed to was horrendous he actually thought it was a good way to get you in the sack. Do you see how hardened a formerly good person becomes once an affair takes root?

The woman he mentions is either a red herring or an old mistress he is no longer interested in protecting. I would focus on exposing both him and the woman he is protecting right now.

You can return to this issue of OW2 later, by insisting on a polygraph.

For now, all your energies should be on exposing him and his co-worker to both yours, his and her families. The workplace is also a key target.

Don't skip any exposure targets! If you leave them even one safe haven, the A will continue.

Stop tipping him off about your suspicions too. That will simply drive them underground. You want exposure to catch him off guard and make him very very unsettled - to the point of anger, not that you care. Think " shock and awe".

That was on your wedding day buddy!

Do you see how he has suspended his vows so he can act on impulse?

His coworker is definitely the one to target. Men don't leave their wives for a few lunches and sexual trysts. Adulterers dint admit long dead affairs.

He's throwing crumbs in the hope it makes him appear honest.

He is very dedicated to gas lighting and confusing you so he can have both you and her.

This sounds so familiar. We were in marriage therapy when I brought up the fact that I could not commit because I did not trust my husband. The next day he took me out to breakfast and confessed a 10 year affair that had started when my third child was born. You could have knocked me down with a feather. It had never occurred to me that anyone would cheat on me.

That confession changed my thinking and from then on I was on high alert. It took me less than a month to discover the current affair. When I confronted him on that, he confessed to a couple of others. Textbook behaviour, trickle truth. I have no idea how many there were altogether and I don't care.

Why do they do this? My theory is that it is what we call in Ireland 'throwing the hat in'. That is where the husband arrives home late and rather drunk. Before he enters the house, he takes off and throws in his hat. The response to the hat tells him whether it is safe to enter or not.

In my case (and perhaps in yours too), the current affair had spun out of control. She was fat, ugly and mentally unstable. He was looking for an exit strategy and, at the same time the 18 years of adultery were looking uncomfortably like the reason for his fractured marriage.

I don't think I have ever seen an honest confession here on MB. Even those caught red handed trickle the truth. You are seeing a tiny fraction of what you need to know.

SFL, I am sorry you have found this out. I don't believe it is the full truth, though. I think he threw you a crumb to keep you off balance and keep you away from the real truth. This is why it is so important to hire a PI and find out what he is doing.

I would also research this woman he told you about and give her a call today. Tell her your husband told you all about the affair and ask for her side of the story.

I am in no way surprised but as others have said, this is a crumb. He has the perfect setup for a man with a second life. You need a PI. Be advised though, there is NO recovery that involves him keeping this work schedule. He must be at home, no travel.

x 2

I would send WH a brief email (you want this in WRITING) telling him that you are still reeling from his confession last night of sleeping with another woman and are extremely hurt and devastated. Ask him why did he sleep with this woman? Was it only really two times? When did this happen? How can you make this marriage work like he said? and some other fluffy stuff that may get you a response. Don't lay it on too thick. Or you can do this by text and take/save screen shots.

You want to give him some bait so he puts his confession in writing should you decide to divorce later. Maybe this is not MB-like but I would do this since it will only be your word against his (for now...unless you can find proof)...and he can easily deny it later so take advantage of him possibly feeling guilty.

Sorry but I think between this second OW and the honey/babe texting OW, that there are a lot more OW and more has gone on with these known two.

Done. And he took the bait. But, I believe California is a "no fault" state so whomever cheated on who doesn't matter.

It won't be for the purpose of a divorce, but for exposure. And evidence matters very much there.

It can come in handy for divorce and/or exposure. Even if you live in a no fault state, most WSs don't want to air any dirty laundry so it may still be a bargaining chip. When you expose, you now have proof...which is always a good thing.

How are you doing?

Do you have access to his credit card activity and/or work expense reports?

No, unfortunately not. Mostly all of our credit cards are joint but he has a couple that aren't.

Do you have an exposure plan in place, list of targets, template letter? Let us know what your plan is for feedback.

Are you eating, sleeping ok?

Hi everyone-
I am not doing an MB thing right now because after his reveal that he had a fling (on Mothers Day for that matter- thank you very much), I am at a place where I don't want to be with him. I originally (the day after finding out) went into Plan B (laying out that he could pick up the kids (they are 6 and 1) on Friday at 5 and have them back saturday by 6 but:
1) I don't think I want to be with him anymore so this tactic seems to be for saving the marriage?
2) I want to protect the kids (especially 6 year old) from letting them know that we are separating. He is already gone Monday through thursday and I am so not wanting to work on us anymore that I would rather have him come stay here like usual Thursday through sunday and give me some reprieve with the kids. (And now of course that I said that, he is saying he wants to help with the kids during the day but doesn't want to stay in the apartment. Says it would be too hard on him emotionally because he still loves me.
3) Don't know if I care to "expose" because I am in a place where I want a break. He can do him, I can do me. There would be ground rules of course of keeping it respectful and not dating/texting other people during the thursday night through sunday time. Also, in general I get the exposure tactic but he is our $$ so why should I ruin his career and risk his reputation and chance of continuing to make $$?

Any advice appreciated.

Well it's not plan B if you're having contact with him and it's not MB if you're not going to expose. We understand if you want to go straight to plan D (divorce), but you need to be honest with your kids.

It's real confusing to children when they don't know the truth. They start to blame themselves for all the confusion.

Please read this.
BSs......Plan C is not a Plan

How does telling my 6 year old son that his dad cheated on me BENEFIT my son in any way?

Please read.
Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn

Also, this and listen to the clips.
Exposing to Children

No the plans are for your personal recovery - I didn't recover my marriage but exposure and plan b got me support, healed me well and in fact transformed my life.

Your plan of an open marriage and lying to your child will hurt you and your son terribly. How are you protecting him by inviting more adultery into his world? You must be very afraid and in deep shock to even consider such a thing.

I'm sure your son is a bright, compassionate thing. Six year olds have an emotional intelligence which you underrate greatly if you think you can fool him with a sham marriage.

Why would you even want to teach him that married people live apart and are not in love and date others?

When children are exposed to, their responses are invariably the same. They tend to be much more sensible than adult responses as I've never heard a child suggest an open marriage ( what kind of men do you think you could date who would agree to that? They'd be vultures). One little girl of five saved her parents marriage by telling her mother calmly she thought it was mean and she expected better behaviour. They have a good relationship today

In contrast I know a lady who told her daughters nothing about it. They pester her continually for explanations as to why she left their father and feel very unsure all the time. Sometimes they ask us, her friends if their daddy did something bad, sometimes they wonder if it was mummy - but it is not our place to relieve their confusion. After years of lying to them my friend is even more scared of telling them the truth.

My nephew was six when his beloved uncle's A tore up my whole family. He told me to change my locks, not forgive unless he were truly sorry and volunteered to give up the OWs children as playmates so our families would go No contact - Dr H's own advice! He also thanked me for telling him because he finds it scary when grown ups lie.

If you simply tell your son that dad has a girlfriend and it hurts you horribly, your fears will disappear. He has already been hurt by his fathers actions - don't make it worse. You two are on the same side. Your son needs you and your guidance now.

He does not need conflict avoidance from a frightened parent and more affairs from his parents.

You need to go no contact with your husband and expose his affairs so your son does not end up with a mistress for a stepmother.

Your H can then strive to regain his sons respect by acting like a dad.

Let's make this very clear: You were NEVER in Plan B. You were never even close to Plan B.

You have been n Plan C which is most likely to lead to divorce, take a toll on your mental health and well being and confuse your children (more on this later). That's the plan you are in.

Did you read this?

This is fixable but you are being led by feelings....emotions that could change and often do change for a BS, sometimes many times a day. You don't need to "be in a place" to want to be with your H to follow MB, that's missing the point.

Following MB gives you MORE options vs less - ie, the ability to recover your M if you decide you want to do that later (which many BS's do even if initially they don't).

It also puts you on a path to personal recovery and protecting your children in case of Plan B/D if that's what you should decide to do.

This was never answered as far as I could tell. It's extremely hard to help when many posts/ standard MB advice is ignored and honestly when a poster just doesn't seem to really understand MB.

SFL, at this point I would like to point out that we told you over and over that your H was in an active affair over your adamant protestations for the first 5 or so pages of this thread.

I don't believe for one second that you have the full truth about what has been going on in your WH's secret life. I think he intentionally threw some crumbs at you because (again ignoring our advice) you kept grilling him about OW1 and he wanted to distract you from her.

You need to know the full truth of what is going on in order to make good decision on how to proceed. You will need to know the full truth if there is to be any hope to recover this marriage at all.

SFL, you are making serious strategic mistakes that will make it very hard to ever recover from. If you won't take advice from people who have been through this, there is nothing we can do to help you.

If you don't want to save the marriage, I can understand your decision but the rest of your "plan" is only going to make/keep you miserable. If your WH is gone 60% of the month, you would never recover the marriage anyway.

You should still expose the affair to your family and his...and your eldest child. My kids were 6 and 8 when I exposed to them. Unless you want to raise your children with some screwed up views about what a healthy marriage is, I would expose, have WH move out, and speak to an attorney about legal separation or divorce. Given that he makes a good salary, you are not going to starve. Life may change but you would get a decent amount of child support and alimony.

Not exposing and having him live there, may sound "acceptable" now but you will eventually HATE it...and it will eat away at you. For all the years I have been here, I have never seen where an arrangement like this ended well for a BS. They very often end up having their own affair...since they are lonely and miserable. The children just end up more confused too. It's a slow moving train wreck full of resentment and depression. Exposure to family and friends will get you a support system that will benefit you GREATLY...and it is obvious you need one.

As for exposure to the workplace...if you are SURE that you want to toss in the towel, then I am not sure I would expose to the workplace. You may want to write Dr. Harley and ask him about this. I believe he has advised not doing workplace exposure if the BS is a SAHM and will suffer financial hardship if the WS loses employment.

I had a second Dday with a second OW. It was a workplace affair but I did not expose because I was DONE. So my position was, my ex could work like a dog for all I cared and send me a check because we were getting divorced. I don't know if you are in that place though. You sound very unsure about things...which is understandable. However, I wanted a divorce. There is no way I would have signed up for an open marriage like you are proposing. That sounds like Hell on Earth...for me AND my kids...no thank you. You aren't protecting your boy either...you are protecting your WH and perhaps what you think is embarrassment for yourself. This is a common mistake BSs make and they often come back to tell us how much they regret it.

Where is your family?

Well boo hoo for him. I would not allow this SFL. It will be emotionally hard on you and it will affect your children as you get more worn down. You can hire a baby sitter if you need a break. We all know this garbage is exhausting but you are setting yourself up for Plan Doormat too. It would be better for him to spend money on alternative living arrangements vs you spending money on therapy. The cost to your mental and emotional well being will be too high. No amount of money is worth that.

Too late to edit but I read this wrong...

WH should not spend his time with the children in your apartment...not because it's hard in him emotionally but because it is unhealthy for you and the kids. "Playing house" will cause more problems.

Wow, Wow, Wow. Ok, I hear everyone loud and clear. I have an appointment with Steve Harley on Monday and will get an executable plan in action.

Trouble is I'm not sure if I want to work it out with him. But by the above posts I get that Plan C is still not the answer.

To answer many of the questions (and not still feeling Plan C is option- just explaining)
1) I wasn't really wanting to have an "open marriage" I'd never have a man come to the house, etc. And WS is flinging in Utah. I was considering, however, moving forward, and going out on dates occasionally, within the Monday through Thursday timeframe, when kids were asleep.
2) My husband swears up and down the affair is over but still in a place that he doesn't know what he wants. (I know, I know, he may indeed still be having affair, but, I feel that he can use that against me if I say something like "Daddy has a girlfriend." because he will say he doesn't anymore, blah blah. But, the answer to this would indeed getting a PI. I just don't have the funds right now. Will try to make that a priority for sure. *But then again, since we are 'taking a break' he has every right to continue to fling right? So, I need to get a plan of action from Steve for sure.
3) I am getting that Plan C isn't an option it should be B or D. I do however have to live in C until May 31st because that is when our lease is up and I want to make sure he extends the lease (it's too pricey to do on my own) as well as my car lease. I will be as nice and loving as possible until those are taken care of. and then. decision.

The biggest obstacle is a place for husband to stay with the kids. Hotel would be too pricey and finding "a place to crash" would be so lame for the kids. But I guess that is his deal to figure out. If I do indeed plan to try plan B, I was thinking that he would pick up the kids at 5 on friday and have them back by 6 on saturday night. (in true Plan B fashion- no contact, and a middle person for the exchange.) He might want more, (like taking son to school friday morning, etc)but since the most common scenario is every other weekend I thought half of every weekend would be a good alternative. (and quite honestly I couldn't imagine being away from my kids for more than a night right now- my youngest is one and they are my life.)
Does that sound about right?

Thank you MB'rs I am listening now.

SFL you are still married. You are not free to date no matter what your H is doing.

"Taking a break" means still married. He has no right to continue to fling.

If that is not an open marriage then what would you call it? Because there is a boundary of no man at the house, that makes a difference?





Not really...

Where does your immediate family live?

That's great! A little adultery in an open marriage never harmed anyone, did it? I think that is just a great moral example to set for kids. Teach them early that a little adultery is a great thing. Give them an "open mind!"


We can give you the plan of action from a Marriage Builders perspective but you have ignored our advice. That plan is to do what we have advised and get the facts about your husbands affair and exposing the affair to your children. We don't care if your husband denies his affair to the kids. That is no excuse for you to lie to your kids about the source of tension in your home.


That is not your problem. I believe he is probably a grown up man and can figure it out.

Part of the purpose of exposing to your children is so that they can LEARN about infidelity, the consequences of it (destroying family/marriage) and most importantly that it is WRONG.

You want to model MORE bad behavior for them?? This is a perfect opportunity for you to teach about right vs wrong.

My exWH waywardness comes from his mother - his sister also had an affair that broke up her first marriage. She (their wayward mother) had an affair while they were growing up and their stepfather said NOTHING. He didn't expose her and didn't explain to the kids that it is WRONG. She modeled the very wayward idea that hurting others so long as it is in the pursuit of your own personal happiness is OK.

Do you want your children to grow up having learned the same lessons?

I would not bother getting counseling with Steve and save your $$ for the PI. You will be wasting your money.

You can get FREE help from Dr Harley on the radio show if you feel you more guidance.

We could care less about what your H "swears". He hasn't admitted anything with OW1 and we already know there is an ACTIVE affair here. Deny, gaslight and distract is the MO of an active wayward. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, until you see the evidence with your own two eyes I think you will remain in denial about this.

Have you called any PIs? How many have you called and what kind of quotes have they given you? How much of that can you afford?

You realize that if you do not fight this affair that this skank could very well end up around your children? Possible even playing a role in raising them, should the affair continue and your M end?

Wasting my money? I already paid for the 5 session package. And a PI would be much much more than that. Trying to make it work though.

I think that Steve is a great counselor, but you don't need his advice right now. You need him AFTER you get the evidence and expose the affair. That is when his help will be invaluable. For now, your entire focus should be on getting the facts of the affair and exposing it. That applies whether or not you want to remain married.

And most of all, don't have an affair yourself.

This was my H's parents too. His mother never exposed the affairs of his father. My H also thought it was totally normal for married people to spend a lot of time apart. They thought they did such a great job fooling everyone with a sham marriage 'for the kids' but you only had to look at them to see they were not in love.

All they did 'for the kids' was teach my H how to become an adulterer himself one day.

You are a married woman. Divorce him and date after healing from this by all means, but you are not free to keep him on as a husband and get action on the side.

Adultery that you keep a secret from your son is still adultery!

Besides, it would involve very scummy men. Nice men don't date married women but vultures who pretend they understand your pain will be everywhere.

You are far too shell shocked to make such huge and damaging decisions. It's clear you haven't really thought this through. Just weeks ago you were one of those people who thought affairs happened to other people, usually on Jerry Springer.

We've been there too.

We know how shell shocked you are and how tempting it is to just dive your head in the sand, tell no one, do nothing. Get comfort from other men.

Please don't!

I'm not sure where you get this idea he is allowed girlfriends when 'taking a break'. Your son won't think so, nor will anyone else who cares about your little family. He doesn't get to declare himself separated and then cat around with hobags for no reason. Responsible people only separate for dire reasons and even then try hard to salvage their marriages, or at the very least remain faithful, until the fat lady sings.



Much too far away, plus reliance on the generosity of a wayward is a crazy plan. They are ranting addicts, especially since you are now in the dangerous position of knowing, but without the support of exposure. He could well spend all this cash on a mistress.

You don't understand the power of exposure. It will gain you supporters and activate the conscience he's suppressed. If he tries to stiff you financially, your supporters will come down on him like a tonne of bricks and he is going to again struggle with everyone viewing him as a bad guy. It's like an intervention.

Work the plans NOW, make your decision later. The plans give you options, Plan Denial takes them away.

Of course he will deny it, to others and to your son, but he won't be able to for long because it is the truth and people always see the truth when it is pointed out to them. Don't worry about his denials, that's par for the course.

After you have exposed to your son, you should also ask him if he has seen anything strange and to tell you if he does see anything strange. You'd be amazed what waywards expose their kids to. Make it clear to your son that there are no secrets in your family and he should tell you everything.

I second the advice to get free guidance from Dr H on the radio and save your cash for the PI. SH is really more for when you have an honest spouse and are ready to start recovery.

In the meantime, draw up your exposure plan and targets. Get your template letters ready.

Dr H will most certainly tell you to expose.

Thank you everyone for your input but it seems like it's too late. He wants a divorce now and is moving toward that he said he wants to come home from the other state and be with them all weekend including coming in at 6:45am before they wake up and also bathing them and putting them to bed. Then go stay in a hotel. (so in other words he wants to see the kids- but not be around me) I believe he's trying to set up physical separation (we've been married 8 1/2 years) so that it doesn't get to the 10 year mark.

I also f'd up too early by saying that isn't fair and not ok and that if he doesn't want to make it work he could take the kids friday night and bring them back saturday night. He is ok with that. A Plan B letter won't shock him because he's basically heard my plan B letter. I really screwed up and wanted to hold it in but I couldn't because hearing that he wanted to come in and get time with the kids and not me hurt me greatly. I should have dont this the right way but now I'm here. He's even ok with telling the kids we are taking a break. I am so devastated and feel like I have no control.
Part of me still wants to do what Plan B letter would state (absolutely no contact with me, and he gets the kids for half the weekend) but because he is saying he wants to spend time with the kids more than that, will that be held against me in court? "keeping him from seeing the kids" when he wants to see them all weekend? (but sleep in a hotel without the kids). And exposure will piss him off more. He doesn't want to be with me. he'll say I'm defaming him and actually he will say that the affair was an after affect- that he's been unhappy in our marriage the whole time.... Again, just letting you know what I fear. I am hearing everyone but it seems too late. Thank you.

SFL you have no control because you are passively catering to his outlandish fogbabble. I would suggest you stop listening to a fool who has ruined his marriage and start listening to Dr. Harley and those who have recovered their marriages.

Until you get out of the backseat and start demanding the respect you deserve, he will continue this crap.

You will either save your marriage or divorce with dignity if you listen to these folks which is a lot nicer than being in a confusing mess that you are rationalizing.

Ok- I want to listen.
So, since I ruined the Plan B letter- do I write another one?
And do you think that limiting the time with the kids to what I say (Friday night to saturday night- he takes the kids) even if he is saying he wants the kids more (but not overnight) would hurt me in court if we divorce?
And finally, sorry if this is a stupid question but just want to clarify- Plan doesn't happen right?

SFL, posters are always willing to help you but if you want to go off and do your own thing...no one is going to give you advice that goes in one ear and other the other.

I have asked you twice...where is your family? Close? 500 miles away? 2K miles away?

Where is WH's family?

How old are both of you?

You are putting the cart before the horse. The first and most important thing is to hire a PI and get the facts about the affair.

Your marriage can be saved, but only if you start listening to our advice.

Tell him he can come home and see the kids - AND YOU. You shouldn't leave. That stands until you uncover the affair and go into Plan B.

We are not concerned that he will be "pissed off" or that he will say he's been unhappy in his marriage. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. We expect him to say this just like every other wayward. Our goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid his anger at all costs. That will not save your marriage.

You continually draw your own conclusions about the plans we propose, but you have no experience in saving marriages. WE DO. And we can't help you if you won't put aside your own wrong headed notions and listen to those of us who have been through this.

There are no guarantees, but there is guarantee of divorce if you won't listen to our advice and put aside your own ideas.

My wife did the same thing.
She planned on coming in every morning, then leaving after the kids went to bed..

Its all nonsense. Don't listen to HIS plans. Listen and follow Dr. Harley's plans.
Listening to an active wayward is like taking life advice from an alocholic on a barstool. They talk and talk and talk and their lives are in shambles

Melody Lane- you've got to have some understanding this is all shocking to me. I'm not an idiot and I understand you guys are the pros but I really trusted him. It's taking me awhile to really let this sink in. I'm not purposefully trying to ignore advice hence my previous statement "I am listening." This is just a lot of info I'm trying to process and I am devastated. Yes, you guys know your stuff, and most other people fail and are telling me other things... I just have questions to clarify. Just because I'm afraid he will get super angry and screw me in court because I didn't "let him see the kids more" doesn't mean I'm not going to do the steps as spelled out. I'm just kind of like in a "are you sure?" moment and need to gain strength to actually do this. If people could support me by answering my questions and last minute jitters that would be a lot more helpful. I've read a lot of info but haven't read any where the cheater was the one actually wanting the divorce... I just don't think he even cares at this point. He even seems numb to the fact that he could only see his kids one night a weekend- it's scary.

The only hope for having a romantic marriage with your husband is to first kill the affair.

You need to snoop and find out who he is having the affair with and some evidence of the affair.

That is your first step.
Second guessing Dr. Harley's methods will not help save your marriage.
The clock is ticking...

Sorry- didn't see your previous post....
We are in California and my husband works in Utah. My mom is in Hawaii and my dad is here. Unfortunately my dad and I aren't that close.

WH's family is all over- His mom is in Florida, his brother is in Nashville, his sister is here and he's already got his sister on his side. (and probably the rest of his family) claiming that he wants a divorce because of other things. (which I am sure have been Lovebustes in the past but I really, worked on all of them).

And yes, I hear you which is why I said "I F'd up" and that I am now listening.

Can you hire a PI?

Yes, I hear you..... trying to come up with several K to pay a PI to truly watch him is what I am trying to do....

He works from 8am to 6/7pm.... Even if I just have the PI (at $100 an hour) watch MOnday through Thursday from 6pm to 11pm will be 2K. I might need him more because they might go to lunch, etc? That's some cash I don't have outside of our joint account right now... Trying to figure it out.

\

We will be here when you are ready to follow a plan. I don't see how we can help you until you are ready to get to work. Talking about your fears and him wanting a divorce is not a relevant part of the plan.

Sorry again Black raven- I'm a bit of a mess...
I am 40 and WH is 44

Melody Lane- are you a BS?

Yes.

Ok- so I just want to be clear:
1) get a PI to get more proof that he is having an affair still, currently.
2) Expose
then
3) write another plan be letter separating from him with no contact and logistics for kids visitations?

Is this right?

You got it!

And at each step along the way, come back here and update us so we can help you with your plan.

Can you put spyware on his phone while he's home?

Do you have friends that can follow him?

Allright!
I just figured out the funds and hired a PI!!

Supposedly his car is parked at the airport and the PI's first goal will be to get a tracker on his car. Yay.

Ok, so I am doing this and it does prove that he is a liar (because he swears up and down the fling is over, he's not 'seeing' anyone and that the co-worker is just a friend- yeah right) but, technically he says we are "taking a break."

If I get info, this week, it will prove he is a liar and give me more to expose but, I can just foresee he using the excuse that we were taking a break.

No because I don't know his password.

Don't threaten exposure! You do it, not threaten it. Unwarned.

As for his babble that's what all waywards say. They all threaten divorce and say they love you one day and hate you the next. This is textbook and you should disregard it utterly. It's not defamation if it's true!

When he gets furious after exposure, you just look very unimpressed and say you had hoped to see him apologise to his loved ones and make amends.

Anger is good, it means it's working.

Okay fantastic about the PI.

Now while he's home you put on your best Miss James Bond (we really need to come up with a good woman under cover name lol) and act like you're buying his "it's all over" while being the best wife you can be.

Can you do this? No love busting?

Honey that is not a new tactic.

You completely ignore his excuses and tell your supporters how heartbroken you are that he is 'taking a break ' to pursue an affair.

Do you think his mother is going to say, oh well it's OK if you got the chance to chase something new, I don't care if you abandon my grandson and his mother?

I know, I know, just preparing for the fall out and his excuses. Another tactic he is using is that he has been so unhappy for 8 years which is not true because he has said that "we were so happy the year our son was born" and that "we were so happy when we lived there" (our previous place which we lived for 3 years) and "we are so happy the first year we got together." well total that up and that is 5 our of the 8 years.... Classic Wayward I guess?

Yes, yes, yes. No lovebusting. So do I still seem sad that he is wanting this break and when he keeps saying that he just wants to come take this break but waltz in and take care of the kids every weekend but stay in a hotel at night (which will not happen in my plan B proposal do I agree, or just say "I don't know?"

No relationship talk. Just keep acting like "we will figure it all out" and then change the subject.

Don't act sad or moody.

Make the house clean and inevitable.

Remember this may be the last weekend you have before you go into Plan B so make it good memories of you.

Here, read this and come back with your questions.

Plan A

Read it and get it. Thank you.
Question-
When I was in stupid plan C I wanted he and I to take this "break" with him still coming home and sleeping on couch. He wanted to sneak in and the morning and wake the kids and be with them and them and bathe them and put them to bed then go to a hotel. He said it was too hard emotionally for him to be in the house with me, blah blah and he needs distance from me because he does indeed love me and this is "soooo" tough. (he had already booked the hotel because I f'd up and told him I wanted to separate then took it back saying I wanted him home. (I know, I know). But, he did agree to spend next weekend (it's a long 3 day weekend) in the home the whole time and see "if he can handle it. and how it goes."

Because we aren't spending that much time together this weekend with him in a hotel for the evening- I am thinking I'd like to tell the PI to not reveal to me his "findings" until Tuesday because I really don't think I can keep it in and do a true no Lovebusters "Plan A" learning of more infidelity. I think one other solid, good Plan A next weekend would be helpful. And then, if I find that he's still cheating, I would implement Plan B via email when he's in Utah on Tuesday. Does that sound ok?

*And I still need to get my car lease extended and my house lease extended. I don't want to blow up and prevent him from doing that. We were on our way to take care of car this weekend but we were told we have to do it over the phone on Monday. House Lease needs to be taken care of by the 31st and hasn't been done yet. :-/ I don't want him to get so mad at my exposure and Plan B that he doesn't do that.

Just more info- This weekend he was 90% talking about moving forward with getting a separation and moving forward with the divorce and then here and there would tear up and say "I'm so so sorry for what I've done." "Let's see how next weekend goes, maybe this will blow over."

Thank you.

So he isn't home this weekend? Is he still in Utah this weekend?

No, he is "home" but doing what HE wanted- coming in before the kids wake up spending time in the kids during the day, putting them to bed, then going to a hotel to sleep at night.

Okay, but you can put on your best Plan A this weekend and then when the PI gets the goods he will be out of town.

So get the leases extended and Plan A. That's your plan this weekend.

Can you have breakfast made when he comes in tomorrow?

I meant clean and "welcoming" to him.

Needing strength to continue my Plan A. Saw something on FB with the co-worker that he claims up and down is just an friendship. The weekend we had agreed to take a break (before I realized I was doing stupid plan C), she posted her FB status as, "Planning for my future :)" (on a flight to Spokane Washington- which my WS was on with her.)
ARrrggghhhhh!!! Not concrete proof of course but that status is really screaming out to me... Need to bite my tongue hard. Thank you for letting me get it out here.

Question- he is extending the lease of the place we are currently in. (it runs out end of the month.) But right now it is in HIS name. Would like him to put my name on it.... But as long as his name is on it he will be able to get keys to get in (even if I change the locks) and check our mail, etc, etc. I don't know how to remedy this.

What does he say when you ask him to extend it in your name? Also, if it's in your name now why can't you call and extend it?

Also, do you have a friend who can check her Facebook for you? Just until you get the evidence from the PI?

Be sure and copy and paste all her contacts into a word doc for safekeeping before she shuts the page down.

Do you mean to tell me he travels WITH this coworker on business trips?

x2.

Just to reiterate: Do NOT mention anything having to do with this OW to your WH! You will be tempted but you must resist...

Right now I can check FB but don't know how long that will last.

Yes, the whole "team" travels together and she is on that team.
Will do about the FB contacts.

The perfect set up for an affair.

Dammit!!!!! It's too late The facebook page is down. Dammit. Will get my friend to check for me.

I believe she took her whole page down. Don't know how else I can expose to her side.

I really screwed up... letting my emotions ge the best of me because it hurts so bad. I'm trying so hard to keep it under wraps... Before getting into Plan A I really harped on him about her... he knows I'm suspicious. All I have left is the PI. Hopefully that will be something- but I have no way to expose her side now.

She probably just blocked you. Can your friend see her page?

See if you can find her sister, mother or brother on Facebook and look at their contacts. You can also have the PI do a background ck to get her parents and family contacts.

Nope, she took her page down. had a friend check...

Well the PI should be able to get her family information for you. Or you can do an online background check and then you should have some family members and then you can check their Facebooks.

Is he still in CA with you or has he flown back to UT?

He is on a flight back right now. PI is ready to start when he arrives!

I would start gathering your information for exposure. Have you read my exposure thread? Please go read that and start putting together a plan.

***EDIT***

Sora, please check your email.

question- My lease is running our may 31- with the lease just in his name and me as an "occupant."
Should I ask him to put me as a 2nd leaseholder along with him or ask for it to just be in my name.

Just wondering how it would benefit/be held against me either way.
- if it's in just his or both than he would have access/keys.
- if it's mine then would that make me soley responsible? If I do Plan B it will PISS HIM OFF and might not pay the rent on the 1st just to screw me. (though he swears up and down that he would never screw me and the kids.)

Is your name on the lease now?

Yes, you would be solely responsible if you are the only one on the lease...or jointly if you put your name on it. I would not put your name on the lease and don't see how you could qualify for it anyway since you are a SAHM. Without being on the lease, you can walk away if you need to.

I thought this OW lived in UT but since she lives nearby you don't want to live near an AP should you go for Recovery either. Is the landlord willing to do a short term lease for three months?

No, I am listed as an "occupant" but not a leaseholder

Well that's good then because you can walk away when you want. Do you have somewhere you can move to, if need be, when you go into Plan B?

So how were your last Plan A moments with him?

- The office did indeed say that I could probably qualify because it's a point system that includes: credit (mine is great), previous rent history (we've lived her 5 years and it's good) and I could claim income showing bank statements which are currently in my husband's and my name.
- The OW DOES live in UT as far as I know (his co-worker).... there is a PI there now looking to get evidence.(sorry I just re-read my post and it was confusing. He was on a flight back to Utah. He is there now and will be there through Thursday.
- There might indeed by yet another OW here but I'm not sure...

Never heard of such a thing. Either way I wouldn't recommend you putting your name on the lease.

Good but not perfect. We had a good time friday and saturday and I did well and we laughed but when I went out last night nd checked the possible OW2's facebook page saying "Planning for my future :)" It really messed me up and I had trouble keeping the happy facade. I didn't explode or accuse but I wasn't happy. Throughout the weekend he said things like "this is so hard" and "I am so lost" and "this seems like the worst decision and the best." and was teary here and there. And I did well just listening and not saying anything and hugging him back when he hugged me. But just before he had to leave he was pretty adamant that we are on a "break" and I said "to me we aren't" and he said "yes we are, do you need me to file papers to make it final?" I just went silent. I know I should have tried harder and changed the subject... i know... His go to argument is that I don't contribute financially (I am a SAHM and he makes $200K!" but we live in Los Angeles, with our son in private school and he is tired of not living like how he wants. (maybe he could save more money if he wasn't buying OW stuff!)

Since your family isn't close by (except your Dad who you said you aren't close to), are you set on staying in CA no matter what happens?

Is WH's employer based in CA or UT? Where is his boss located?

Ok, thank you.

Is he trying to persuade you to get a job?

Yes. I have a 1 year old and my priority is raising her.... we are far from struggling. I have a company that I started that has teachers bringing children's dance classes to schools (as well as a swimming program). It brings in some money but not a lot. It pays for my car note and a few incidentals. I have an assistant who does the admin part (which I am horrible at) and he is saying that I should fire her and do it myself. I attempted to do the admin in the beginning and I couldn't- it took me 3 times as long as someone with admin skills PLUS the fact that I have a 1 year old running around.

When my littlest turns 2 and is in preschool I would be glad to contribute the best I can- maybe with a part time job or trying to grow my current company.

When he met me I was a struggling part-time actress/model dance instructor. He said he wanted to "take care of me" so I didn't have to worry and I could pursue the acting. I did at first but then I got pregnant and my priority became being a SAHM. When my 1st born turned 3 I taught a couple of dance classes which brought in some money but not a lot. The OW is a career woman- a sales woman at his company so I think he is attracted to that. (she has no kids)

I think the attraction lies in having to provide you LESS support in the future when he divorces you. He is not thinking of you, but of himself. He is operating on pure self interest right now. I am sorry.

- Well, I would love to get out of CA actually but- WH is planning on getting a place here for the weekends. So if Plan B goes into D, it would be lame of me to take the kids to another state so it would be difficult for WH to see them right? When the topic has come up he's hinted at "fighting for 50% custody" if I don't agree to let him see them every other weekend. Don't know how this would happen since I am their SAHM and he's gone 4 days a week in UT.
- His employer is in UT. His boss is I don't know where but it's not CA and he travels to UT here and there.

I agree... He's going though this very "I need to be happy" phase. (as if he wasn't bursting at the seems with joy when he spent time with us prior to this job and affair.) He used to be a really great dad and husband.

Lately he's been very disconnected (I wonder why) and when he is home with the kids he's very often sleeping or playing games on his phone.

He keeps on saying "I am so lost," I just need to sort myself out," etc.

Back to my home lease- It's actually a luxury apartment with a leasing office. They have keys to all the units (or a master key or something). As per an above suggestion I was thinking I didn't want to change the lease to my name because if he screws me and doesn't pay the rent (even though he swears he wouldn't) I would be responsible and it would ruin my credit.

But if he is the leaseholder and I change the locks- he could go to the leasing office and get a key. I was thinking of talking to the leasing office manager (a woman) in confidence and asking what she thought...
Advice?

Annnd... He just texted me: "I miss you," and "I'm so lost." (again after leaving the house saying we are taking a break.) What is a good Plan A response to that?
I said "Me too." to I miss you. and when he said "I'm so lost."
Should I say anything more if/when he does it next time?

Say, "I miss you too and I know we can have a wonderful and loving marriage together". Love you, xoxoxo

He wouldn't get 50/50...that's just to scare you. Joint custody is NOT the same as 50/50 so don't fret about his threat to fight you. He is physically is gone more than half the week...crack pipe talking.

I don't think you need to Plan A your WH too much. He said he misses you so if he thought you were a horrible troll he wouldn't say that...or worst case he is manipulating you so you don't pressure him. Either way I would not offer too much carrot and prepare to administer the stick this week. You should expose the affair to your family and friends while the PI does his thing. Do not tell anyone about the PI as they may tell him you hired one.

Getting divorced isn't going to give him the life he wants to live either if money is a sticking point for him...he will lose half his assets and be paying you support for years.

You have an appt today with Steve? Let us know how that goes but I don't think I'd hold off on the exposure...at least expose to family member. They may be able to help but do not mention anything to them about work exposure, MB, the PI or anything they could intentionally blab or let slip to WH. With WH being away when you start to expose, he will be having a stroke...mine did.

ETA: If you haven't already done so, I strongly advise you to consult an attorney to find out what your rights are. I would also set up your own bank account as well. Be prepared!!

That's one of the main reasons for exposure. The kids suddenly realise it wasn't them who had become boring. Often the wayward has gone ape on a poor kid who disturbed a call or text or asked what he was doing.

I'd consult a lawyer and get separation and maintainance advice as part of your Plan B preps.

A big part of Plan B is in busting up the fantasy and giving a preview of a realistic divorce. The WS gets self involved and tends to construct a divorce fantasy which involves the BS lumbering all the responsibilities they will have to cast off to keep their affair.

Typical WS fantasy looks like this:

1) An extra household will not cost more - the BS can earn more/do without
2) I won't have less time with the kids, I can banish the BS when I want, or inflict my unremorseful cheating presence on my family when the spirit moves me etc... Only for the fun tasks of course.
3) My new relationship won't be allowed to get 'realistic' or have arguments - whenever the troubles of a second household come calling, I will turn right around and blame the BS, not my new love.
4) Everyone will love my OW because I'm going to lie to them about how we really started.
5) I will stop meeting my BS's needs but I will still expect her to meet mine, like co-parenting, being an affectionate shoulder when things get rough and providing me with the comfort of a family home to escape to when real life intrudes with OW.

Plan B reality looks like this:

1)The BS has consulted a lawyer and it turns out 'his' earnings are her earnings too.
2) He sees the children at appointed times, away from the family home and is solely responsible for parenting and amusing them.
3) The fantasy A gets real realistic, real fast. The BS is not available to accept any blame. She is busy painting her townails and having bubble baths.
4) Everyone, including the children has lost respect for him. Friends no no longer trust him around their wives. Women actively dislike him. No one accepts OW or wants her around except for people with very scummy standards.
5) The BS meets no needs at all and he realises that providing a living pales in comparison to providing a life and a home.

Throughout all of this nightmare - he has an out. Your Plan B letter showing him the way home.

Now Plan B does not save marriages - really it just saves you but it does give a dose of reality to the WS while keeping you safe out of the trouble.

It can take time to Plan B, up to two years, so do see a lawyer; make your Plan B comfortable for the duration and don't stint in making sure his experience of Plan B is not.

Thank you indie girl- much appreciated.

Any news from the PI?

I asked the PI to hold off on telling me the results until next tuesday because WS will be home for the long weekend. I need to play nice (and I won't be able to contain myself if I see the "proof") until I meet with a lawyer (meeting tomorrow) and get leases extended. Tuesday after Memorial Day I will find out everything.

The PI did tell me that when he followed him to hotel after landing that he was definitely under the influence swerving and starting to exit then rapidly pulling back onto freeway. This was at night and he has started drinking on the plane....

WS today during FaceTime just looked at me in tears and kept on shaking his head saying how beautiful I was... It's like he's mourning me because he's dead-set on moving on. He also texted me when he got the hotel Sunday night saying how sorry he was and how he is "so lost." I don't know what to do or say during these things because the second I say "I am here and we can make it work," he closes up.

This mourning stuff is very common. You don't need to do anything except make Plan A deposits which you are by being pretty . You certainly don't need to console him as he sets fire to his life to appease his drug dealer.

Maybe throw a little affection into the mix by saying you hate to see him in such pain and so unhappy with his choices. Which is also a nice little way of throwing the responsibility back on him - if he's unhappy it's because he is choosing to be.

Your response is actually perfect and him 'closing up' is nothing to be concerned about. Waywards often close up the pity party when they hear sense. They don't like it, but you can bet he'll remember it when the affair is crashing down in flames.

SFL, it might be a good idea to blow this up this weekend because he will be home. For example, if you got the evidence today, you could begin your exposures once you know he is on the plane to come home. By the time he reaches home his phone will be blowing up and he and the OW won't be together to do damage control.

You have a 50/50 chance that exposing it will ruin the affair and you won't have to worry about the lease or getting legal protection at all.

Also you will have supporters who will help make sure he doesn't threaten you financially.

I know you've said you can't control yourself around him knowing this knowledge - but I think you can.

I think so, because we all thought we 'couldn't handle it' and yet we found our poker faces. We behaved under fire. You've also been doing beautifully in responding to his fog-babble recently and I think you've got this.

Whatever the PI tells you, you must 'detach your mind at will' as Sherlock Holmes says and just think how valuable the proof is to your exposure.

ML makes a great point about exposing while they are not together and it is usually the sooner the better with exposure.

thanks again IndieGirl
I am definitely doing this (plan A/plan B) and am really seeing how this is the best thing to do.
As days go by howewever (again not 2nd guessing doing it just seeing how it might be too late) I am realizing that My WS is so entrenched with this OW and even when I do Plan B- he works with this woman and won't change that. He is addicted to her. She has taken the place of me emotionally. He is now sending her is flight plans and he is checking in with her saying "Morning" and "hey" and complaining about his day to her and she is giving him everything he needs.
I got a background check (she took down her facebook page) and got some relatives but I believe it's just a sister. I'm not going to expose her/him to work because it would kill his career and my paycheck.
I am sickened just realizing that he is scrambling for money including the help he promised me when he took this job in order to buy her things and help her out. He even considered cutting our kids after school activities so he can continue find extra money for her. (Before, he would NEVER cut anything from the children).
I guess what I"m saying is I'm going to do Plan B for me (and I get it completely) but I believe just exposing to her sister (and maybe mom not positive who the relatives are) and WH's few friends and family isn't going to kill the affair. WH has been distant from friends and family his whole life. He doesn't care if the world is against him. He doesn't really respect or listen to anyone.
WH and OW will be like Bonnie and Clyde and it might even draw them closer together. He loves helping her and grooming her as a business person (which I'm not.) I am the SAHM that he used to adore and be so thankful for because I was raising our children so wonderfully but now he is telling me to put my baby in daycare so I can get a job.

I"m seeing a lawyer today but think I"ll be SOL with keeping my place because it will be under his name and he will have access.

Any thoughts appreciated.

I just can't because the kids will be around. I will be a mess. And I just wrote below how I truly don't think it will kill anything (but I will still do it). My WH has been a loner his whole life. Never really respecting/taking guidance from anyone.

SFl, did you read my post about exposing before this weekend? If you have the evidence, I think that would be the best strategy.

And you do realize your marriage can't be saved unless he leaves that job, right? The goal here is to kill the affair and avoid going into Plan B altogether. If you expose the affair this week, you can give him an ultimatum to leave the job within 30 days or you will expose there. That gives him the option of leaving gracefully. Then if he won't do that, you should expose there regardless.

That's fine if your kids are there. Can you get a babysitter?

There is about a 50/50 chance that the affair will be killed. You can't predict that outcome. The OW may dump him if the affair is exposed to her family and friends.

Sorry- Melody Lane and IndieGirl- I am reading your posts out of order!

Another reason I am not wanting to do it this weekend is because My WH promised my kids a "long great weekend."

I also wouldn't be able to do the No contact rule because I'd need to know that he got my car lease and home lease straightened out. I also need to pay for my kids summer school I'm planning on taking care of ALL of this, this weekend.

I don't know who her friends are. NO facebook page just a background check with a few relatives that I don't even think she's close to. She too is a loner. they are "perfect" for eachother.

You are putting the cart before the horse with Plan B. That is good that you are making those plans, but exposure is part and parcel of Plan A. Plan A comes before Plan B.

It is hoped that exposure will kill the affair by bringing things to a head. You might not even need to go into Plan B.

You have plenty of time to find this out. I would start by looking up her relative's facebook pages and finding all their relatives. You can get a good list going that way. Pore over their facebook pages looking for pictures and posts that the OW has commented on.

I would try to focus on finding ways to most effectively maximize your exposure for strategic effect, instead of thinking up reasons that it can't be done.

From the advice of Steve- I should not expose at work. It will absolutely ruin WH's career and we will have no income. He is the President of an Internet Marketing company and if his reputation is tainted he won't get work any where else. He is already admitted he is choosing his career over his family. I have no $$ we would be screwed.

SFL, you have a longshot so it is important that you think strategically and get the best bang for your buck. There are no guarantees but you have to maximize your approach.

Ok, this sounds good. I will work on this tonight. Thank you so much for your guidance. I'm a bit scrambled this morning with my 1 year old running around and I do have an appointment with a lawyer so I have to run. I will sit down and carefully read through everything when I get back and baby is napping instead of the "half reading" I am able to do now.

Dr. Harley's advice is to give the WS 30 days to leave the job or you will expose at work. That way, he has a chance to gracefully leave his position. So yes, you would expose at work if he does not leave in 30 days.

He has to leave the job anyway, so this is a good thing.

From Dr Harley's book, Surviving an Affair - pg 71,

"While I unhesitatingly recommend exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children and the lover's spouse, I'm not so quick to suggest exposing it to an employer. That's because such exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim by the unfaithful spouse's lover. Or it might trigger the outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult for them to find another job. So in those cases I usually advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse he or she will expose the affair to the employer in a month if the unfaithful spouse is still working there, giving him or her time to make a graceful exit from the job to another. Even if a new job cannot be found in a month, I recommend waiting no longer to inform the employer, unless the unfaithful spouse has already resigned."

Exposure has an internal effect on waywards. He isnt comfortable with his decision and won't be able to publically brazen it out they way you do when you really believe in what you are doing.

My WH never gave a whistle about people's opinions when his actions were good, but exposure had a tremendous effect on him and it did kill the affair he was so set on. They denied each other straight away and had decided to live in separate countries within a month of exposure, even though I had kicked him out.




Why that's a brilliant chance to manage any sulky attitude to exposure.

When he's sulking and raging say "The children are distraught and would probably like you to pull yourself together and reassure them."

If he refuses, say: "The kids and I are going to xxxx to enjoy ourselves today. (If the children are up for getting out of the house, otherwise say you're watching movies or having a family dinner) I'd like you to be with your family and help the children get through this today"

Then be as deaf as the proverbial post when he blames you. If he attacks, go somewhere and do something else saying calmly you aren't going to stand for that.

Your kids aren't going to have any kind of great time with a wayward anyway. Nor will he he will just be weeping over it all and saying goodbye. Plus you can Plan A during the exposure storm. You are calm, attractive and offering family fun - that's Plan A regardless of his reaction which doesn't matter at all.


Some of the best exposures I've seen have been ones that ruined a waywards plans for a great time. Especialy a last hurrah in the bosom of the family.

Exposures that ruin the last Christmas, the last Thanksgiving always pack an extra punch. Oh the WS is extra angry, but they also seem extra good at ruining the A. I think it really breings home to the WS that their family will really be gone forever unless they shape up and since they never got that one last family 'hit' they way they wanted they don't feel as ready to go as they otherwise would.

SFl, another point is that if your husband does not leave that job, the news of his affair will come out someway, somehow. People gossip at work so it is just a matter of time. He is a ticking time bomb. If not today, then next week. Your husband is an unprofessional, reckless, loose cannon who is on a path to self destruction right now.

He is ruining his OWN reputation by having a workplace affair with a subordinate. That won't stay a secret for long.

If he gets fired, it will be because of his affair and nothing else. Anyone who is this reckless in the workplace needs to be stopped. He is a walking sexual harassment lawsuit. He might avoid his current path to being an ADT door to door salesman if he leaves that job gracefully and takes his career more seriously.

If he worked for my company, he would be frog marched off the premises by an armed security guard.

Hey everyone- big update. I asked PI for the info and it's way more far gone than I thought. He said he hasn't slept in his hotel room since he got there. He checks in and goes to her apartment and doesn't leave. He's done this along time and says they are past the whirlwhind part and are in to married couple stage. He hasn't gotten any Pda because they are hiding from any HR exposure. Doubt I'll get it. He goes to her aparment and they are holed in probably watching the shows we used to watch. He has documention that his car is there (even though it's parked not in her spot) but no documentation of them coming or going. they are being super careful. This is horrible.

I'd guess Steve thinks your H has a better shot of leaving, by finding something else quickly, with his reputation intact.

He most certainly will need to leave the job for recovery.

Yes I know. But you have the gunpowder you need for your exposure now.

You are also safe from trickle truthing and lies.

I will say that the PI's findings are not really a surprise to me.

Your WH is giving up so much and he is in tears over it. You don't do that when a mistress is still in the fun-and-compliant, 'why not have us both' stage. She's probably gotten very naggy and demanding.

Ok, there you go. You have your evidence. I would start planning out your exposure now. Start gathering exposure target names and writing out your exposure letters, using the templates in my exposure thread.

When is he flying back? And how many hours will it take for him to fly home?

Do you have a babysitter you can leave the kids with for the evening of his return?

SFL, please start listening to the people who are trying to help you and set aside your plan to put off exposure. Too much time has already been wasted.

I am going to be gone for the afternoon, but I sure hope you let MelodyLane help you!

DO NOT LET ON TO HIM THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT HIS AFFAIR. NOT A WORD TO HIM UNTIL HE COMES HOME THIS WEEKEND.

My suggestion would be to launch a nuclear exposure for this weekend, timed with his flight home. You don't want him to find out until he has landed at your town.

By the time he gets home, he will know about your exposure because the OW will have been blowing up his phone. When he gets home, you tell him you have had him followed and know all about his affair. You know he is staying with the OW.

Tell him you will give him a chance if he ends his affair and leaves his job. Tell him you have a plan to create a romantic, passionate marriage but he must end his affair and leave his job. Tell him you will give him 30 days to leave that job or you will expose it to the HR department and the other key executives at his company.

If he takes you up on that offer, you must figure out a plan where you are not apart overnight anymore and he has no access to the OW. He would have to give you access to all of his phones, email, etc. Ideally, he could work from home for the remaining 30 days OR you will have to travel with him.

<------ This. Do this.

I would send this letter to your family and friends. It should go to his parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, your family and close friends:

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. WS has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because he has been carrying on an affair with a coworker named Skanky SueSlut who resides in xxxxxx. I have had him followed by a Private investigator and he flies into Utah, checks into his hotel and then drives to Skanky's home to spend the night. The purpose of the separation is so that he can carry on his affair without my interference.

I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get him to stop this affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end his affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if he would only end the affair. Please support him in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,

Try to call Skanky's parents so you can speak to them, but if you have to settle for email or facebook message.

FACEBOOK EXPOSURE INSTRUCTIONS

Should be done to the OP�s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the OP�s closest friends and family.

SPACE THE PM�S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children.

YOU WILL LIKELY HAVE TO PAY $1 PER CONTACT OR THEY WILL SEND TO THE TARGET'S SPAM BOX. PAY THE MONEY SO IT GETS TO THE RIGHT PLACE.

Dear friend of Skanky slut:

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends and family should be aware that she is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 2 small children. According to a private investigator, my husband flies into Utah, rents a hotel room and then drives to Skanky's home at XXX E Hoe Lane and spends the night with her.

I would ask that you use your influence with OW to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BW

In the meantime, go to cheaterville.com and shesahomewrecker.com and post her photo along with your story. When you are blowing up her up this Friday, you can also send her and her contacts the links.

SFL, I just wanted to chime in and give you encouragement to stay strong.

Bring out the mamma bear for your kids today to give them the best possible chance of being in an intact home.

You owe your WH ZERO, NADA consideration for his anticipation of a wonderful weekend. You are in charge. Don't delay so your kids have a chance of many wonderful weekends in the future, even if at the price of this one.

You CAN DO IT!!!! Stay strong.

I think he's so far entrenched that he won't leave but I will still do Exposure and Plan B for my sanity.

He might not leave NOW, but exposure will hasten the death of the affair. I agree he is very entrenched, but the solution to that is exposure.

Ok, I hear all this but, I only have proof that he did it this week when he already told me we were separating. He will tell all his friends and family that it just started- long after he and I were "over." He will say that we had problems for months and this was just a reaction to our problems.

Maybe I can add that he had his first fling (as far as I know) back in November when we were going to couples counseling and he was promising to work on us?

He flies back at 4pm and is back in LA at 6/6:30

No, unfortunately I don't have a babysitter the kids can stay with. He'll arrive at 6:30 and bathes them and puts them to bed. He also pays for wifi on the phone so he can text if people start contacting him on the plane he might not want to come home? or come up and explode at me in front of the kids?

You are just looking for excuses to justify why NOT to do this when it may have the most vital impact on him and the affair.

Look at the reasons for DOING it as suggested by those who are familiar with this entire ordeal.

Response can be:

Do you actually believe that rubbish? (Then shut up)

Does that excuse make sense to you?

***He admitted it during counseling last November. The problem with our marriage is that there has been a 3rd party involved on an affair with my Hubby. Are you just going to let him lie about it now that he's making stuff up?

Or, just tell them to use there own best judgment and see what feels like makes the most sense.

LTL

That is silly kook talk. You have proof that he is having an affair. He is a married man. You are married to him. That is all you need to say. I don't care if he says he is a baloney sandwich, in reality he is a married man who is having an affair. So, please don't waste valuable time posting wayward excuses for his affair.


No. You can add that this is his second affair. He had another recent affair with ____enter name___.

That will still work because they won't be able to talk on the phone while he is in flight. They will be limited to text and they won't be able to do [much] damage control.

He will come home FURIOUS so just expect it. Prepare yourself accordingly. Have you read my exposure thread?

You can focus on blowing up the OW's world while he is on the plane and then sending the email to his family and friends right when he lands. That way skanky will be blowing up his phone with texts and then when he lands, he should start getting calls from his family and friends.

I guess you are missing the sentence that I said I AM going to do this- just want to throw out any last minute concerns so I can be prepared for best timing.

Last concern. I don't have Brianna's phone number. I can get it off his phone (I thought he changed the passcode but he didn't last weekend. And I don't have the 1st OW's name- it should also still be in his phone.) The best time for me to get this is when he has his phone on the charger when he is bathing and putting the kids to bed....

I wonder if his current OW knows about the 1st OW and if it happened at the same time??!

And YES read the exposure thread... Will re-read when kiddos are in bed.

btw Lawyer said NOT to expose at work. And so did Steve... I really want to but I also want paycheck!

BUT, you won't have access to his phone since he is out of town, right?


The lawyer's goal is to get you divorced, he has no experience in saving marriages. We are trying to save your marriage.

And we showed you Marriage Builders position on workplace exposure. Dr. Harley's position is that you give him 30 days to leave his job and THEN expose if he won't leave. Your only hope is if he does leave the job. Did you see the quote I posted about Dr. Harley's position on workplace exposure?

You will be sharing that "paycheck" with the OW if you don't kill this affair and save your marriage. And you won't do that if he keeps that job. I will post Dr Harley's words again:

- I am saying I will check his phone when he comes home thursday night. We are talking about a 3 day difference. or maybe 2 day because I will get the numbers then expose when he's here.

- I did read it but I also coached with his son who said completely not to expose to work under my circumstances. My WS works in a very niche market and everyone knows everyone. He gets this HR no-no reputation and he is SCREWED. You said I have a 50/50 chance. I really don't think I have that much- I think my Plan B will last a year or through this job ending (which will end in a year or so- in his industry they generally last 2-3 years). He'll either come crawling back then or we will get a divorce. But I will expose the heck to his and OW's friends and family!
- AND I just need to get my leases extended period. I won't feel secure otherwise.

I will follow the steps otherwise. And not with the only goal being to save my marriage but for me- will you still help me?

If so I'd greatly appreciate it.

That being said. I'd like to expose mid- weekend.

Thank you Sunnytimes!

That's ok because you don't need her phone # to expose. It is entirely unnecessary.

Waiting for a completely unnecessary phone # just ruins a completely well thought out plan. There is no reason to wait.


I would reduce that to a 0% chance if you won't offer him the 30 day ultimatum and then follow with an exposure. Your only chance of saving your marriage is if he leaves that job. You can't possibly imagine you can save your marriage while he still works with the OW and travels. That is the reason your marriage is headed to divorce.

I am certain you misunderstood Steve because that is not Marriage Builder's position. As you can see, Dr Harley's position is that you expose at work if he won't leave the job in 30 days. You don't have a marriage otherwise. Otherwise, you are likely to be fighting with an OW over his income.

Its real important that you think long term instead of short term. He has to leave that job if you want to have any hope at all.

Anyway, you can't skip that step. It is too important to the outcome of your marriage. You can't choose the career over the marriage. Doing so has just about destroyed your marriage. You can't afford more of the same.

And once again, you do not have the power to harm your husband's reputation. That is silly. If his reputation is ruined, it will be because of his reckless, unprofessional, irresponsible behavior on the job. Which will soon come out anyway. If his company is anything like mine [a Fortune 500 company], he will be frogmarched off the premises by an armed security guard when they find out. If you give him 30 days to get out, he might avoid all that and you will have a chance to save your marriage.

Nope, I won't help you make yet more critical mistakes. Your thread is chock full of you wasting valuable time on "Plan SFL" making critical mistakes. You have wasted so much of your time and ours. Your best thinking has led you to this terrible place. And here you are thinking - once again - you know what is best.

Isn't it time to accept you don't know what you are doing and put aside your own ideas?

Protecting his job over your marriage almost ensures divorce. But more than that, the risk is great that he either loses that job anyway or you end up fighting with an OW over his income.

As long as you protect his career over your marriage, you protect his affair and ENSURE that you continue to deal with a fogged out, selfish wayward.

If you aren't strategic enough to see that, then I give this a ZERO chance of recovery. And when he divorces you, you will be competing for scraps.

- 50/50 though means there's a 50% chance he'll go to divorce- if he goes to divorce he will be a %*$# and I might lose the place of residence and $$$ for me and my babies. I understand the threat part.. I will threaten the 30 days. Just don't know if I can go through with it...

Oh my goodness I checked all relatives of the OW that I got from the background check and NONE are on facebook.

There is about a 100% chance he will divorce you if he keeps that job. If he keeps the job he will continue to see his OW and continue to travel. And you will be fighting the OW for leftovers.

You have a 50/50 chance of saving your marriage with this plan. But if you don't follow it, I give it a 0% chance.

What do you suggest I do if I have no people to expose the OW to?

My suggestion is to make certain you have a full list of exposure targets for the OW.

How? I've been googling all of her relatives and there is NOTHING

Does anyone else have any ideas? I was certain with the list of 6 possible relatives from her background check I'd get something but now I have nothing. She isn't on facebook and neither are her possible relatives.

Where do the relatives live? You could also ask the PI to get you contact information. Are you sure she has removed her facebook page? She could just have you blocked.

Keep looking for her and her relatives on facebook. It is too odd that none of them are on facebook.

I've entered all 6 of their names and none come up. Yes she has removed her facebook page. I had a friend check. WH told her to because before coming to you for guidance I opened my mouth about some stuff I saw on there.
Background on OW doesn't have relatives address- just their names, birthdates, and ages.

That will be a nice little project for your PI.

Ok, I found 3 relatives on Fb- sheesh. I was entering their middle names and such and it wasn't coming up. One is her 26 year old little sister who's profile is the most private- unable to view comments on her wall or pictures, etc. and the other is her dad which she seems estranged from because she's never commented on his stuff. (not sure if her "like" or comment would come up if she's closed down her page?)
The third person just joined FB in February- not sure if she's close to her or not.
So those are the three. Even if I don't know if they are close, etc. I should still expose to them right?

I would pore over the father and 3 rd persons contact list and add any relatives to your exposure list. Go over their relatives contact lists too. Gather as many names as you can.

Just to confirm- when I am ready to expose, do I tell my WS that I "know" or anything like that? I understand not to tell him that I'll be exposing but do I tell him I know what's been going on? Thank you.

Any other insight would be greatly appreciated.

He's only been concentrating on gaslighting YOU with this separation stuff he hasn't been gaslighting anyone else. To everyone else this is fresh and extremely shocking news. He has just shrugged off his family for a woman who crawls into bed with a married man.

One thing I've learned about exposure is you just have to trust in people's common sense and morality. No one with common sense is going to believe a new relationship has emerged in the midst of what should be a heartbroken separation in just a week. No one with any morality will believe that is OK even if it were true. The vast majority of people have both common sense and morality.

Yes, there may be some people without any moral compass at all among your exposure targets. Great news! The people who are enemies to the morality of your marriage, who may even have been egging on your H to follow his heart have now helpfully identitified themselves. They will now be excluded from your recovery.

Besides all of which, he chose to keep it secret because he is ashamed of what he is doing. This shame will now be felt acutely now regardless of others' reactions.

It is normal for exposure to feel very scary when doing it. My hands shook when I sent out the messages but I overrode those feelings with logic. Once it is done you will feel enormously empowered.

He planned on working you like a puppet through all of this hell. Making you work harder, making you his secret keeper, making your heart, your strength and your hope break. You will blow that heartless plan to smithereens and regain control of your destiny with exposure.

Everyone else will be telling him that you know!

This is the beauty of exposure because a wayward's mind is just one inch across. The person they fear finding out is the BS and they don't have enough mental capacity to even consider what they would say and do if other people were to find out.

They've usually rehearsed some speeches for when the BS finds out; nice, cruel gaslighting type scripts. They've never rehearsed speeches for anyone else.

When the exposure bomb lands, they usually want to speak to their spouse IMMEDIATELY. This is so they can deliver their blame scripts and gaslighting and so get back 'on plan'. However the BS isn't even interested in being gaaslighted - she hasn't even bothered telling him she knows. All the while his phone is being blown up by an angry mistress and by people for whom he has no ready made answers. He might try to adapt some of his scripts as excuses, but it will be unrehearsed, and most importantly of all, untrue - so he will make a fool of himself.

Waywards never tell people about the A, and they never expect people to find out. Almost all of them have the staggering cheek to expect that their BS will keep the secret for them. This is because they don't have the mental capacity to look oputside their own wants while in the A. They are so doped up with wish fulfilment and fantasty, that everything they expect is woefully unrealistic.

If they were clever, thye'd be dangerous. Luckily they are not.

Don't be afraid

I agree with ML that you must have misunderstood Steve. I'm certain that Steve's plan for you involves getting him out of that job somehow as it is a ticking time bomb. There's no way you can recover if travel continues, or if contact with OW continues. It's an addiction so if contact continues, the A continues.

Even if there is no recovery you don't want her as your children's stepmother or for his paycheck to be shared out amongst an old family and a new one. Not to mention the chances of his getting fired if he stays.

Half of nothing is nothing.

If Steve has told you not to expose straight away I'd say it's only because he thinks his leaving the job can be handled more easily if he does it himself on your insistence. As ML says, it's only a matter of time before he is discovered anyway (especially if it is a small world) and then he will be fired. From your description he then won't be able to get work anywhere. If you make him hand his notice in, he will still have good job prospects even if he does not have work for a while.

If following your insistence he's determined to hold on to the job, then essentially he is determined to be found out and fired. So you would have nothing to lose by exposing him at that point. At least you'd have control over who knew in the workplace. The bosses may even be grateful to you for the alarm bell and it has been known for them to agree to transfers rather than to sack people.

Also, just think how your 30 day threat would be received by the APs. She will be informed that she is now in a relationship with a man who will soon have no job prospects. That she faces humiliation in the workplace similar to what she has just experienced with her family. She realises that she will have to support him, while also fearing for her own career. They've also got this sick business mentor/mentee thing at the heart of their relationship - a daydream which your ultimatum will crush.

There's also a nice little trouble causing message in your ultimatum. It will send her into a spiral of "what about the money! I don't want to support a hobo!" While you, a wife who committed for better or worse, is sending the message you are more interested in the marriage than money and will ride out short term hardships with him.

Regardless of their personal plan, they'll both start job hunting for separate workplaces which is what you want to happen as soon as possible.

Expose the affair while he is in the air. He will hear about it on his way home. When he walks in the door, tell him "I know everything." He will probably blow up at you for exposure and say all the normal wayward things "I can't believe you did this!" "I was going to give you another chance and now I'm not!" blah, blah, blah, blah. Just repeat that you are sure sorry he is upset.

Then you offer him a plan. Tell him you will give him a chance to recover the marriage if he ends his affair immediately. You will give him 30 days to quit his job and find a non-traveling job, however, he will need to find a way to avoid traveling without you and he will have to avoid being around the OW for those 30 days. If he will do that, then you will work with him, via Steve Harley, on marriage recovery.

Also, don't let on how much you exactly know. For example, don't tell him what you told us here - "he was only there once and after he said he was separating." Just tell him you have had him followed for some time and you know what is going on. Your sources are your business only and you won't share it.

A good practice is to first post the OW on the website www.cheaterville.com and www.playerblock.com ; provide some sort of proof if you have some, and include a link to the Playerblock post in your exposure to OW friends and families.
Tell your story, dont make be anonymous, just be honest.

Yes that's very important. If he tries to find out how much you know, just say 'I know' or 'I know everything'. If he presses you to reveal the details of your intel, say 'You know very well what you have been doing so don't expect me to read it back to you. All you need to know is that I expect you to tell me the full truth voluntarily. If you tell lies, I'll know'

SFL.
Single OW scare me because they think they have nothing to lose in breaking up someone else's family for their own benefit. They are under the delusion that they will get a ready made family and everyone will adjust and be HAPPY.

She sounds quite desperate and predatory in her texts. The longer you put off exposing her the greater the chances that she will get pregnant and be a toxic person in your life for the next 19 years.


Don't let some OW break up your family and steal your husband, kids, and money.


It doesn't matter that you only found out a week ago. The important thing is that you found out and have proof of an affair NOW.

We all know how scary exposure can be. I used to draw my own strength to fight the affair by thinking about having to share my kids with a POSOW. It is war when a third person assaults your family behind your back.


EXPOSE. Be prepared for anger and more gaslighting. Expect it. It means you hit their moral compass.

The PI's description of this relationship and the texts keep making me think of a first person article I read written by an anonymous OW in a magazine a few years ago. I knew it was true because it mirrors everything we see here every day. I think this OW and the one I read about are pretty similar creatures.

She wrote she was one of those girls not too successful in the dating world, more career focused. Flattered beyond belief with a few smiles from the successful and happily married man in the office. She was this desperate for attention. Well she was so flattered and he was flattered that she was flattered and they went on trips and lived like married people when together. Very close and romantic during those trips. So she started to feel more powerful, got demanding and insisted he get a D. Which he didn't do - too scared - but he hedgingly suggested a separation.

The A was unexposed though his wife found out the true cause of the separation and went Plan D. The OW wrote she was very scared of her dad knowing and she told him her new boyfriend was separated. Her dad still wasn't thrilled. Predictably the A ended exactly 2years after the separation as it usually does and the WH told the OW on his way out he was truly sorry he had ever left home.

The OW finished her article by saying "I lost my best childbearing years and destroyed a family. I know some affairs lead to people getting married and living happily ever after but it is not always true". In fact it isn't true at all outside of Hollywood movies. 95pc end in two years, the rest are miserable. The silly creature got suckered in by some cultural myth and destroyed lives in the process.

These single OW ARE dangerous, but their weakness is easy to hit - expose and bust up their Hollywood myth as the disgusting selfishness fest it truly is.

i know I am indeed worried about the fact that she is a single OW. I have no idea who to contact besides the 3 fb contacts I tried searching and reading walls and nothing jumped out at me because she isn't on FB. I wonder if she would be affected by me contacting her and showing her an email from his 1st OW dated Dec 17th (who knows how long the current OW has been in this picture?? I'm now thinking it's longer than I thought but I have no idea.

I wonder if current OW would be affected if I let her know that we (my WS and I) have been intimate often when he is home up until two weeks ago. I had stopped having sex with him two weeks before that because he was acting angry and distant after we would (for 8 years it would connect us but now it wasn't- guilt/conflict I guess) He said he understood and even though we would make-out, we weren't intimate. Then, On the Saturday before mothers day we went out for drinks, he got a room and pulled me close saying "You are my Wife for Life, I am committed, let's make this work and and I'll do the program with you." The "got a room", then the next day, he admitted the older affair. NOw I see he did that hoping I'd divorce him and which would allow him to be with his current OW. Sick. ONe last "night" with me knowing fully well he'd try to get rid of me the next day. On Mother's Day.

If I contact her with this info I"m sure he'd deny it and say I'm making it up but I wonder if it would do anything??

Just looking back... and with the latest findings, I am truly worried he's a compulsive liar. I am wondering if contacting his ex-wife and ex-girlfriend could get me anymore info that I could give to OW. If for example they both agree that that he is lied and/or cheated, it would further through doubt her way.
Especially because I don't have much friend/family exposure for her.

Thoughts?

The vets told me there is no point contacting the OW because they are heartless and don't care what the BW says.

Once my WH agreed to Recovery and EPs I created a temporary email account and sent OW a message. I just told her all the damage that she and WH had created and to stay away from us. And that WH was contacting other women while he was with her. It felt good to get it out.

She ended up responding a month later, but I had quit checking that account. I didn't read it until I had asked WH to leave and file for divorce.

WH and OW are still together so clearly everything I told her had no effect.

My point is - the vets are right. The OW don't give a crap that WH is a scumbag.

Interesting!! Yes, especially if they are single and being fed the lies he is probably feeding her- he is very very convincing. Some email from his "crazy soon to be ex-wife" will probably do nothing.

I kind of do want to contact his exes out of curiosity now though.... I've been falling asleep at night with my mind racing about HOW MANY LIES there have been. The reasons for his break-ups with his exes seem to easy and now I question whether there is so.much.more.

I would not give up so easily on finding facebook contacts for the OW because you need to make this as widespread as possible. Look for more relatives on those 3 contact's pages. Do you know where her parents live? Do you have their home phone #? Do you have their names? If you have their names, then try to find their relatives. You can't just give up so easily.

And yes, you should contact the OW AFTER the exposure. Tell her your husband has told you he loves you and ask her what her intentions are. Tell her there is no future for her because she will be eternally hated by the inlaws and your children for her part in busting up your marriage if you do bust up. Tell her she is not the first affair, but the second. Tell her about the other OW.

I think that is a great idea!!

So there are a bigger handful of relatives on their pages that have the same last name. Should I expose to anyone on FB that has the same last name as her??

You got it, girlfriend!!

I'm getting really scared of exposure guys. He can be a monster (not physical) but he has been distancing himself from me and his kids for months. I think he's in love with this woman because he's been saying "I don't know." I don't know in reference to us. And I believe, now he knows. He has chosen her. I know, I know, expose expose. He is just such a good liar. I have evidence of him sleeping there but that's it. That is absolutely wrong, but still, he can create something like "she has been having nightmares from when her ex beat her up I just came to sleep on the couch." and then turn around and say, "YOU LIED TO EVERYONE- I haven't been sleeping with her- just being her friend!" I know, I know, but he is so so smart and caniving I am getting frightened.

Any good links to stories of women who were scared of exposing and how it went down?? Thank you, I just need to get strength.

Yes, there are 52423 "links" to threads where a BS was scared of exposing. We were *ALL* scared. But we did it because strength is a CHOICE.

We are not concerned with the excuses he concocts to justify his adultery. They are just excuses.

He might be a good liar, but you don't need the confession of a liar to know truth, do you? You are smart girl and you know better than that.

I am sure he will lie and try to spin the truth just like every wayward. Your job is to be smarter than that. You don't need to debate, defend or justify anything. You just tell him he will have to end his affair and leave the job if he wants to stay with you.

Don't fight, don't apologize, don't defend. Just be a broken record and tell him he has to end his affair and quit the job.

x 2

Stop worrying about what a liar says. The stories a WS spins typically ends up being so over the top stupid and unbelieveable that anyone with half a brain can see he's desperately spinning it.

If it makes you feel any better, I exposed on Dday...to my sister, best friend and children. I found the BH the following day and exposed two days later to the BH, my family, and WH's family. My WH was stroking out!!! OW was stroking out!!! I had not found MB until months later but I had the presence of mind to expose. You have the benefit of MB to know what to expect.

There is no guarantee your marriage will be saved but I sure as heck was not going to let some skank anywhere near my children. That alone was motivation enough for me to drop the nukes and destroy the affair even if I ended up divorced.

ETA: My WH dumped OW and she was all whacked out over it

Black Raven those last two sentences SCREAMED out at me. Yes. Yes. Yes. The thought breaks me even more than his affair.

How does this apply if he is already talking about divorcing me? He said, "we are separated and we will be divorcing soon." He wants to come home this weekend and spend time with the kids and I as a "goodbye weekend." And then he will be getting an apartment to crash in LA. I believe he is moving on with this woman and making plans for their future.

I guess I just mean I will expose, he will be furious, he will say, divorce is coming. So I don't think the words "you will have to end your affair and leave your job if you want to stay with me" applies if he already has said he doesn't want to be with me.
Thoughts?

SFL, if he doesn't want to be with you, why does he keep coming back home? Why the "goodbye weekend?" If he was so set on this he would be GONE!!!! Divorce would be filed!! Most WHs are cowards!!! Please stop with all the "what ifs" and get the exposure over with. It does not matter what moronic rationalizations WH comes up with...they will all be MORONIC!!!

No one is separated or divorced until they are separated or divorced.

He stayed in a hotel last weekend. He doesn't want to stay with me- just see the kids.

We already know all this.

We want you to say "in order to be with me, you must end your affair and leave your job. Otherwise this will lead to divorce."

Any other questions?

Oy...it doesn't matter. You, the kids, you and the kids, his fuzzy slippers, his pet turtle, whatever...my point was he has done nothing of substance other than act like a drama queen...which is typical. If he leaves, then Plan B is all the more easier for you.

Thoughts? MelodyLane already told you he will be furious. He will be furious and will say stuff to you and you will come back here posting about it and we will remind you we already know this.

It happens every single time.

We've seen this story before.

Expose anyway. It's vital that the affair be disrupted as much as possible. Exposure will speed up whatever is going to happen.

It is vitally important so that you turn this around so that he realizes HE needs to beg YOU if he wants to come back. This is about putting you back in control and reclaiming your dignity and getting a whole and healthy you out of this.

HE is the one having an affair. He should not be threatening you with divorce. That is laughable. Expose the affair and let the consequences start raining down on him. This is step one in you coming out of this all right regardless of whether he finally has a successful cranial-rectal extraction are not.


A "goodbye weekend"?





I am so sorry - God help you - that is so unbelievably disgusting. He must have a pathetically low opinion of you to think of doing something so abusive and offensive.

I think that opinion will start to change when you stand up for yourself and expose what he has done and start getting the support you need.

That is so degrading and insulting.

A good start is to post OW on the worlds largest infidelity exposure website: www.cheaterville.com . You can then include the links to that exposure when you contact her friends and family.

ok. got it. he just said he's in the process of filing... getting the "paperwork together." Who knows. Thank you.

Every wayward 'talks' about divorce. They think it makes cheating while married OK.


As for the 'goodbye' weekend, waywards are constantly saying goodbye. They have more swan songs than swan lake. When with their mistress it's "I can't leave my family! Goodbye!" when with you it's "I can't do this (faithfully) - goodbye!" However they always end up going back for more of both types of cake.

That's why the goodbye weekend is most certainly something you should not play along with. It IS insulting to expect you to watch him weep over his victims as he shoves the knife in deeper. He needs to understand that it WILL be goodbye - and it WILL be divorce - but on your terms unless he straightens up and flies right.

See he thinks it's his call - but it is yours. You aren't scared by these pointless threats, because you have nothing to lose at this point. All you would lose is a cheating husband. So look very unimpressed when he tries to pull this to scare you.

So when will you be exposing?

Are you planning on doing it Friday when he's flying home?

You are all going to kill me but I want to do it when he's on the way back to UT Monday Night. We have no help and I just can't deal with the anger around the kids.
But I will do it. I will expose expose to as many as I can. He will be so paranoid of being seen with her knowing that I know.

Okay, then you need to start on Sunday by posting OW on www.cheaterville.com and www.playerblock.com. It takes a few hours for the posting to appear.
Then include a link in your exposure.
Do you have your list of exposure targets for OW and WH family and friends?

That is not love. Sneaking around deceiving your family and hiding from the real world is NOT love. It is a fantasy.





Again FANTASY. He is living in a fantasy that he can make it look like he just wasn't happy so he divorced and then magically found someone new. OW is fighting behind your back to steal him away from you while you contemplate whether you should expose because he will be mad.

Exposure will kill his plans to make it all look innocent and also the fantasy that he is under. He will no longer be able to claim that it started AFTER he filed for divorce because exposure will bring it all out into the light.


Reality hits very hard when WH has to look everyone in the eye and explain why he thinks it is a good idea to abandon his family for an OW who sleeps with married men.


Exposure and the TRUTH is your strongest weapon in bursting the fantasy bubble.




Even a moron would not believe that.

No respectable woman would invite a married man to "secretly" live in her apartment because she was having nightmares. Good grief.

EXPOSE.

He's going to be a nightmare around the kids either way. Since he has this maudlin idea of a 'goodbye weekend' he's going to be acting strangely and freaking them out. He'll flip whenever any of you don't behave according to his prescribed script.

You'll be missing a golden opportunity to rob him of the sick plan to say 'goodbye'. Much like the 'lets have one last roll in the hay, honey' offer he gave you.

If he flips out, take the kids somewhere. At least this way they will know what is going on; that they are not to blame and that they can trust you at least.

SFL, no one is going to kill you (let's not get melodramatic) but if you keep making excuses to not act...you will likely find crickets chirping in your thread at some point. I think you should have exposed this week while he was gone and you didn't. I do think it is better to expose while he is gone. However, subjecting yourself and the kids to this "goodbye weekend" is a horrible idea.

Why don't you pack up the kids on take them somewhere for the weekend like Disneyland or the beach before WH gets back? I don't know if this is MB or not but since he keeps saying you are separated he may get a little taste of what Plan B and D looks like (don't say that to him though) if he comes home to an empty apartment. You can Plan A but leaving something 'nice' (the carrot) in the apartment to find but administer the stick by not being there. It spares you his gaslighting, pity party and provide you some self care. You could go stay with friends too...start exposing to your family over the weekend too. He can see the kids Monday and tell them bye then. Anyway, think it over...

I hope you are not going to be a doormat and cater to WH's selfish ideas. Did you have your attorney consult?

It's funny because SFL, this whole situation is making me think about my sister. While she was being gaslit by her WH, he didn't want her talking to me and even went so far as to try to estrange her from me by telling her he and I had had an affair at one point.

MelodyLane said to my sister (yup, I sent her here to MB): Sounds like he knows he can gaslight and scare you but not Susie!"

There is no good reason to put off this exposure. Your WH knows that he can control you with his anger and that you are terrified to have conflict with him. That's why he does such bold and brazen things. He knows you will back down.

You are going to have to stop being a doormat.

I could have cared LESS what my ex WH told people about exposure!! I think it's so strange that you have spent so much of your thread talking about that.

He's married and spending his nights at a woman's apartment for heaven's sakes! He has admitted an A to you!?

You need to stop being such a "people pleaser" and caring WHAT people think of you!

No more Mrs Nice Guy, SFL. This A is waging war on your M and your family. Stand up and fight and stop cowering in the corner!

markos is spot on with this post.

It is remarkable that we are more disgusted with your WH wanting a goodbye weekend than you are.

My exH would have never in a million years would have suggested a thing to me. He knew better.

I agree that once you expose and get some much needed support, you will feel better and stronger. I think you will wonder how in the world you ever agreed to such a thing.

You need to stick to the plan and stop giving into your FEARs. This is just plain FEAR talking. There is absolutely no good reason to delay exposure and many good reasons to move forward. You want him WITH YOU when he finds out [or flying to you] so he and skanky can't do damage control and so you have a chance to try and work this out. If he gets too crazy then you can leave with the kids for the weekend.

EVERY wayward is furious about exposure. Just put on your big gurl panties and DEAL WITH IT!

SFL, it is time to make a decision to be STRONG. You must decide to STOP allowing yourself to be played like a fool. He has been allowed to gaslight you for such a long time that you even parrot mind boggling fogbabble FOR HIM. You make excuses for him that leave one's jaw dropping! It is very rare to hear a BS so completely invested in wayward excuses.

I don't see why you are so tempted to behave like a doormat. I know that's not you!

I know you are capable of saying "Listen kids, something very horrible and very sad is happening. Dad has a girlfriend and he wants to live with her, but it is wrong for married people to do that. Just remember that I love you and we are in this together. We all still love Dad and I am going to ask him not to go. I want you to know I've got this. Mum has got this one under control no matter what happens."

I also know you are capable of looking super hot and super unimpressed when his anger blows up. I know you can Plan A like a rock star, expose fearlessly and not give a damn as he spews his fogbabble.

I know you CAN - but will you?

Why would you want to wait for exposure until they will be together all week to bond over it together?

Have you ever heard of how soldiers bond together in the trenches? You'd just be allowing them to be in the trench together to bond during a crisis.

Your best bet is to expose when he has just left her and lay down the ultimatum that if he maintains contact and returns to her you will have to make other choices. This keeps them apart, not drives them to each other.

Right now you cannot give way to your fears. You have a battle to fight, and to win. No one enters a battle without some fears - but the battle, nor its timing was of your choosing.

For your children and for you, you need to rise to the occasion now and fight the battle to win it.

Waiting until next week is like saying that he needs to break his addiction, but you want to make sure he has access to his addicting substance when you tell him so.

If you spend a nice weekend with him and the kids before he leaves, this will leave your children very confused. Exposure also includes your children. You should not discount the ENORMOUS influence they may have on him by telling him what THEY think about the situation. Why would you not do everything in your power to save their family and to prevent the hassles in their future involving half-brothers and -sisters and Christmasses spent with the OW's family under the Christmas tree?

You will recover with or without him, but he will eternally be the father of these children. You will have no say about what he does with them and how he raises them when you are divorced. He and OW will tell them crap about your marriage and how it was inevitable.

You can restrain his capacity to minimize the impact of this exposure. Also, people will have time to reach him during the weekend who habe other things to do during their busy week.
Really, the time for exposure is now. You can do it and the outfall will drop upon him and the kids can tell him their mind all weekend instead of having a fake, pretend weekend after which he may tell them that he loves you ever so much, but you asked him to leave or whatever he will have made up to look good in their eyes.

Good luck.

I am composing the exposure letter and wanted advice. One of his "go to" excuses that he is telling people why he wants a divorce is that I am "bleeding him dry" or that I don't contribute to the family financially. Nonsense for many reasons. Meanwhile OW has posted photos of expensive shoes and I just saw a text saying "can I use your card to go shopping at Nordstrom's tonight?"

Should I add "he is also buying her lavish gifts" or anything like that?

Getting ready to cut and paste like heck.

It sounds like you have decided to expose today.

Yay for SFL!!!!

The exposure experts can comment on the rest, but just wanted to tell you how happy for you I am that you are getting yourself back up to fight to win.

I was praying that you would find the strength. Exposure is your most powerful weapon.

Be careful not to give away the fact that you can see his texts. You do not want to lose that.

Yep

Ok. getting ready. Please help with details.
I have the FB letters to OW's family and WH's husband ready.

WH is going to the gym here in about 20 minutes (and kids will be in bed.)

I will expose to the friends and family memebers via FB and maybe call his brother.

I do not have the actual video/photos yet- the Pi said it will take a few days to get together. Is that ok? Just because I will be saying "please private message me if you'd like to see some evidence." And I won't really have it yet.....

Questions:
- Do I have to have Plan B letter ready tonight?
- If he continues to deny to the end and I ask him to "end the affair." Then what do?
I do?

Thank You!

DON'T say that in your letter. Write it as I wrote it. Just say exactly what I said.

No.


Don't ask him if he is having an affair. YOU ALREADY KNOW and don't need the confession of a liar. It doesn't matter if he denies it because you already know the truth. Tell him if he won't end his affair and leave his job immediately, that he needs to leave so you can separate from him.

Ok, sorry, trying to focus.
1) Husband going to gym. When he is gone I will EXPOSE.
2) When he gets back I will say:
I know everything. I know you are having an affair with xxxx and that's not ok. Are you going to end it?
**Steve said, to not go straight into leaving his job gracefully. (He said that the first step would be to get her to leave- not sure about those details but that's what he said) He said to just concentrate on saying, "I'd like you to end the affair."
And if he continues to deny say "Is that your final answer?" And hang up on him (that's when I told him I was going to wait until he was leaving. He of course agreed with everyone on this forum knowing the best time was when he was here.)
3) Tell him he can leave and stay elsewhere?
4) We have Saturday, Sunday and Monday left. Do I offer him any time with the kids this weekend away from me? I didn't want him to make the whole huff and puff scene of packing and stuff. I wanted to do it for him! (At night when kids in bed through the week.) Plan B would sort out the details but that's not finalized yet.
Advice?

thank you

I when I say do it "for him" I meant from a power play standpoint he doesn't expect. Like me shipping all his crap to OW's place so I never have to make contact with him again.

I would not ask him to leave. Just tell him that you will need to separate from him if he won't end his affair.

If he packs up and goes to a hotel. Do I "let" him come back as usual the next day?

Sorry- this whole "I will need to separate from him if he won't end his affair" won't do a thing. He 'separated' from me last weekend and didn't want to stay over night this weekend except I had asked him to two weeks ago before getting out of Plan C straight. He already has plans for next weekend and to follow.

In his mind, he is already separated from me.

Please don't speak fogbabble to me. Of course he did not "separate" from you. Is he not there? You don't need to worry about any of this this weekend. Just don't kick him out.

When he leaves again, you can send him a Plan B letter and do a TRUE separation.

Wow, I'm glad I asked. Don't kick him out. Ok. If his "final answer" is there is no affair. (or he won't end it) Then tell him ok we will need to separate (next weekend) and go on being around him this weekend? (if he doesn't choose himself to go to a hotel?)

Your "final answer" is that you don't need his confession to know about his affair. You already know the truth. You need him to end his affair.

And then what? If he agrees to end his affair then what? How will he end the traveling job?

Don't even ASK him if he is having an affair. Just tell him you know all about it.

I know I don't need him to admit anything. I meant "is that your final answer?" is what I say if he either says. "No I will not end it." or if he never admits it and just keeps talking in circles.

How to act throughout the weekend towards him if he sticks around but still says we are separating? Distant? Regular? Happy?, it will just be so awkward...

Post the OW on www.cheaterville.com Internet exposure wreaks havoc in affairland

Ok. I did it.
WH called me saying "what did you do?" and couldn't believe it.
He came home was less angry than I thought (he is a very strong, intimidating man who can get angry) and looked more like a deer in headlights. This was the "weakest" I've seen him.
But, he keeps saying that he wants a divorce. And when I told him to end the affair he said NO. He said she has been a friend to me and she listens to me.
He said it several times. He did attempt a couple of "I was torn but now we are really getting a divorce" lines.
He keeps on saying that he wanted a divorce a long time ago and that we "don't work."
He packed up and went to a hotel and said he'll be here to see the kids at 7.

Since he's been gone he's texted me saying:
"You got me to extend the car lease and sign our apartment lease before dropping the hammer. smart girl."
"I can't believe you did this."
"To be clear I am not leaving you because of my "affairs" or because of anyone."

Now when he comes to see the kids tomorrow how do I act? Through this whole thing I was calm and strong and when he said he wanted a divorce I kept saying "I'm sorry you feel that way, I can't go along with that knowing that we could have something great, etc." But did say when he said that he won't end the affair, ok, well then I need to be separated from you." It seemed silly since he was saying he wants a divorce. but we shall see.
I wish I could just go into Plan B but that will happen when he lives again Monday.

- still unsure of how to act. Normally on Saturday He hangs with the kids while I go to the gym, then we switch. And then go out to dinner as a family.
Any suggestions?

So proud of you, SFL! You did perfect! Remain calm and strong! Remember everyone of them say will divorce u blah blah blah, just fogbabble! Wait for the vets tomorrow giving u more advice!

You handled it perfectly. You are good under pressure.

Do more of the same. Keep outlining your agenda, you want him to ensure she is history and keep ignoring his gas lighting. People who really want a divorce go get one like I did without even mentioning it. He is using it as a threat and it is wonderful to see you not falling for it.

Just being around him - cool, beautiful, strong and taking no [censored] will make love bank deposits.

Encourage the children to be vocal about their feelings. Children are wonderfully just and precise creatures.

The stronger you are, the stronger the headlights look to the deer!

Keep your cool.

I haven't told my kids yet. They were sleeping. My son is 6 and in Kindergarten. Steve told me to say "daddy doesn't want to be here."
Not sure what else to say. Besides I love you very much and this is not your fault- but daddy doesn't want to be here anymore.

Guidance on what to tell a 6 year old?
I was going to wait to tell him depending on how this weekend goes and after WH went back to Utah to prep him for him seeing his dad (and not with mommy) only one day next weekend.

WH just called saying he was in a cab and just wanted to make sure I was going to let him into see the kids. I said. I told you I didn't kick you out, you chose to leave, and yes, I will let you in.

Response from relative of the OW: "Why would your husband cheat on you ? Lets see your an idiot I now your hurt but messaging her relatives is pretty dumb look at why he would seek an extra marital affair then dump his cheating [censored] also if he's having an affair with Bri guess what he's probably had others you don't know about don't put all the blame on her your husband is a dirt bag get divorced get over it and y do women always blame the other woman pit the blame where it belongs !!!!if need help its your husband get a clue"

Should I respond?

You are doing great SFL. Remember you are in Plan A until you push the plan B button.


Don't worry about the negative responses from exposure. Your goal is to break up the affair and the fantasy.

Stay cool and in control. ((hugs))

He keeps saying: let's be clear I'm not leaving you because an affair.
I asked you for a separation a long time ago.
I say: you asked me for a separation when you already met Ktissy and Brianna.
We have everything we need to help make our marriage great and keep our family whole if you would end this affair.
He says we don't work and we are done.
And I say you are choosing to not end this affair so we must be separated.
He says OK.

Here.
Exposing to Children

I read that but he is 6. Any 6 year old versions?
Do I tell my son now, in front of WH?

You listened to this clip and the other clip?

My WH is here, with our children.
I am unable to listen to the radio clips.
Could someone please tell me exactly what to say and if it should be in front of WH?
If I say mommy really wants to make our marriage work,but daddy is choosing not to and wants to go be with another woman.
WH will say all kinds of nonsense about how mommy and daddy just don't work.
He will be so confused. Any guidance appreciated.

Hang in there SFL

I wouldn't engage WH. He's mad and is not going to listen to anything so just let him stew and not bring up any relationship talk. You can not win with logic or educate him...he needs to connect the dots in his brain without you pointing it out IMO. That will only irritate him.

That works and add..."with another woman named (insert name)...daddy works with her" so your child knows who she is.

ETA: If you can tell them without WH around then do so. It will give him less opportunity for him to interrupt if he starts to come unglued.

I would:

Thank you for your response. I do not blame Bri alone. My husband is responsible for his actions and she is responsible for hers. I am well aware of that. Neither is innocent. If my husband and I end up divorced, then at least your family knows what they may be welcoming into their family. Anyone accepting of that is clearly an idiot.

You want her family to slap her upside the head for you. Apply pressure and look good at the same time.

He is sticking with. Our marriage is over. Are you going to tell my work? Even if you do we are done. I need to know what you are going to do.
Let me be clear- we are done. Please tell me if you are going to tell my work so I know if I should quit first.
He then took down photos of us. Kids are around. I told him to leave the photos as is.

Don't worry about the photos, SFL.

SInce he gave you that "in" about quitting, you can say "You may want to quit then" and then leave it alone. Do not argue about money, bills, etc. He will try and put a guilt trip on you about ruining his career/reputation. Just let his head explode wondering about what may happen.

I have to head out. Others may have other ideas from mine. You may want to say nothing about the job...idk. Whatever unfolds, don't get sucked into fighting or chase after him...you will not win.

Prayers and hugs to you, SFL.

Just tell the boy that his dad is having an affair. Tell him the womans name and tell him he has chosen to leave them to have an affair with this woman.

Tell him now, not when your husband is around.

Just tell him it would be a good idea for you to find another job in 30 days. I will give you 30 days to leave and then I will expose it at work.

THIS is the *ONLY* thing that will save your marriage. THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE. If he stays at that job, your marriage is over.

Be strong.

Be firm.

Your WH will be nasty, scary, etc as he tries to control the situation (his secret being exposed).

Everything he says, he believes BUT it doesn't mean he will always believe it.

Your firm boundaries of what is acceptable in the marriage are crucial to the direction it takes in the future.

Ride the waves as best as you can by following the MB plans.

Your child needs to be told by you (no WH around).

It will hurt but the truth is better than any scenario your six year old would come up with on their own. (I told my children and the youngest has handled it the best with my honesty about his family situation.) Kids are amazing in their ability to handle truth.

Tell your children tonight after WH goes to hotel. That way they have an opportunity to tell WH how they feel about his actions before he goes back. This may have some impact on him.

Hubby is telegraphing his vulnerabilities. Clearly he is worried about workplace exposure. I would get that done ASAP before he has an opportunity to spin the story.

I think the 30 day warning applies when the wayward is agreeing to meet other conditions for recovery. You have the affair in chaos now. I'd complete the exposure now to maximize the tsunami effect.

Do the rest of us who travel the public roads a service. Ask the PI to inform the police if he is observed driving under the influence again. The life you save is likely completely innocent. "Let the consequences of the waywards behavior fall freely upon them."

You are doing an Epic plan a and exposure!

I agree with your hubby on one point ...."Smart Girl"

SFL,

I am very proud of how you upgraded your stance and moved up the timetable of your exposure.

I too agree with the previous posters interpretation of the 30 day waiting period for exposure at his work place. I believe that Dr. Harley states that time period is for allowing the WH to ease out of that job and to transition into another job, but only if the WH is already being compliant with ending the affair and committed to a transparent lifestyle along with providing the EP's that you felt necessary to continue attempting to reconcile the marriage.

I also have heard him say that you need to carefully consider the immediate financial impact on your lifestyle and that of your children to maintain a sustainable environment.

He is VERY concerned about a work place exposure. I feel it will have a major impact on destroying his affair fantasy as long as it is factual and pleading for humanitarian assistance on the behalf of the employer.

You have his Text Messages admitting to more than one affair. Use that in your future exposures.

ALL Waywards claim the marriage was dead prior to their affairs. Don't give such statements and credence or validity.

Also, he did not pay for the extension for the lease on the apartment or vehicle as a trick on your behalf. YOU are his wife. That is his obligation. Don't let his foggy wayward babble gaslight you into thinking anything differently about you waiting until that wad completed before you exposed. How much of his current, past and future earnings went to subsidize his affair tramps. Hotels, dinners, gifts etc...

I think that you should complete the workplace exposure as your next top priority.

Also, when telling your young child about it, i told my son just like this. Your Mommy is married to me and married people are not supposed to dating and fooling around with ANY other man. That's what Mommy is doing and it's a big mistake because Daddy still loves Mommy with all his heart and will continue to try to do nice things for her, but i can not accept that she is doing something so bad and hurtful to you and me. Any guy that tries to date a married woman is complete garbage and doesn't care who is getting hurt by him trying to break up a family, especially when little kids are involved. Then i asked him how do you feel about that? I told him that he should know that he can tell his Mom exactly what he thinks about the choices she is making.

LTL

That's not how I took what Dr. H says. Perhaps there are other writings scattered around MB but I have only ever seen this:

"While I unhesitatingly recommend exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children and the lover's spouse, I'm not so quick to suggest exposing it to an employer. That's because such exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim by the unfaithful spouse's lover. Or it might trigger the outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult for them to find another job.

So in those cases I usually advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse he or she will expose the affair to the employer in a month if the unfaithful spouse is still working there, giving him or her time to make a graceful exit from the job to another. Even if a new job cannot be found in a month, I recommend waiting no longer to inform the employer, unless the unfaithful spouse has already resigned."

There's no qualifier about whether or not the WS is willing to recover the marriage.

After retreading the Harley quote you posted, I stand corrected.

I think your suggested response is quite effective. It serves the purpose by focussing WH mind upon the coming consequences.

The goal of telling the children about the affair is not to have them tell their parent off.

It is so they know what the heck is going on in their family.

Ok I know I should be ignoring the messages from OW's family but I'd love a good response to her sister.
Good luck on saving a marriage that should be built on trust. Again your husband is married and the cheater, on the other hand (OW) doesn't answer to you or a spouse. I understand your pain and hurt, that's usually when a scorned women lashes out in order to hurt other people so they feel as hurt as you. In my case I will tell you my opinion of Brianna will never change no matter what ugly news you choose to deliver. Pick yourself up and brush off the pain and move on with or without your cheating husband. Hold your head high and stop stooping to an immature level of the tattle tale. Best of luck whatever life brings you.
Sister

lol If she is so proud, then why does she call it "ugly news?"

"what is so "ugly" about the news? I am just spreading the good news. I will make sure everyone knows your sister is sleeping with a married man. You must be so proud.."

Help please. I found an invoice/receipt showing he already filed for divorce on 5/16. It says "dissolution of marriage/stipulation" and he paid $400 with a balance due of $400.
This means divorce is officially pending right?
I can't believe this.
Do I tell him I know?

Don't say anything because it may not be filed yet. That will give you time to get your own lawyer on Tuesday and file FIRST so the action will be in your town, not his. The first one to file usually has the advantage. Who is the receipt paid TO?

Westside justice documents preparation in California. He did it while he was here last Friday. Might just by documents preparation? looks like he's planning on representing himself and hasn't gotten a lawyer.

But maybe I'm wrong? He mentioned he was getting paperwork prepared to propose what he would offer me... Maybe I can call the place and find out?

Do you have an appointment with a lawyer yet?

I already met with a lawyer just to see how much I'd get, options for custody, etc.
he is gone everyone. Plan B won't be the shock it is for most because he got used to being away for 3 days a week, then 4 days, now he's staying in a hotel. Even when I exposed to my 6 year old he seemed barely phased because hardly sees his dad.....
And I also messed up by telling him about what plan b would entail awhile ago before I knew about all the Plan B steps.
He's basically saying he's going to divorce me so why ruin his career.
If this happened last year Plan B would have absolutely KILLED my WH and my son. But now, it seems like a gradual, lonely (for me) progression to it.
Already feeling like a single mom.

Needing guidance everyone. I'm breaking down. I shouldn't cry at all in front of him right?

SFl, I would make plans to meet with your lawyer on Tuesday. If you feel you can't hold it together without crying in front of him, you might just tell him you can't deal with this right now and ask him not to come over.

When you say meet with lawyer do you mean file?

Yes, you will need to file so you are legally protected. If he is already poised to file, you will want to beat him to the punch so you have an advantage.

Did you read MelodyLane's post about asking him to leave if you can't hold it together?

Will you do this?

Hey everyone. I am lost. This isn't working. He is so pissed and keeps saying he doesn't want to be married to me anymore.
He also continues to want assurances I'm not going to screw up his career.
When I say that he should find his way out of a job sooner than later he gets pissed and says "are you threatening me?" He's just hating me and saying he's sorry for what he did but he follows it with "I should have ended it with us sooner."
He left to go to a hotel tonight. On his way out he was saying that he can't be alone in the house with me at night (kids in bed) and was upset I couldn't give him assurances that I wouldn't screw up his career.
He is now texting me saying "please take the threat away" and "you can screw up everything I've worked for" and "I will bend over backwards for you" (but we are getting a divorce). How should I respond???

Do I have any power to chance at saying "don't file for divorce, leave your job and do the program with me?" Is there any way or is it to far gone?

Respond back to him with this:

"I am sorry you screwed up your career by having an affair at work. I have thought about this for some time and think the best way out would be for you to leave within 30 days. If you will do that, I won't expose at work. That will give you a chance to get out of there gracefully before they find out what you have done and fire you. If you are still there in 30 days, I will expose."

You need to be a broken record and respond with:

"I don't have the power to screw up your career. If your career is ruined, it will be because of your affair."

Don't make any promises about not doing job exposure.

He's obviously terrified of that prospect. You don't need to threaten, he is getting himself tied in knots over the prospect all on his own.

There will be love busting in affair land! If you won't engage him on the topic, he'll be pacing and hand wringing all over OW. That will make him a barrel of laughs for OW NOT,

She'll be worried about her job also and all over him to control you.

Listen to Mel. File first. That also puts you in the drivers seat to drag your feet if you want to slow the process down. Let him know that you don't plan to let him set the terms whether he stays or goes.

He may "need to know what you are going to do." But you don't need to tell him.

Ok- so filing doesn't mean that it has to be completed and or final?
I actually texted him back saying "bending over backwards means ending your affair, leaving your job gracefully, and coming home and doing the program together." He then texted back and said "is that the ultimatum?" Then he called me and said let's talk about it tomorrow and that he'd think about it.

Filing doesn't mean it's over. If he commits to a recovery program you can stop the D proceedings anytime.

Good response, but be prepared that he keeps waffling between you and OW until he goes NC with OW.

Right.. The point is to protect yourself legally.


His goal is to beat you down so you will promise not to expose his affair. He is very good at that. And you are accustomed to caving. To avoid that, you need to text him the post I made above and show him that you have a plan and are not going to be beaten down. By doing so, you take away all threats and just give him your plan.

Send him this!!

Tell him this tonight so he won't waste all day tomorrow beating you to a pulp manipulating you into protecting his affair.

And keep repeating yourself, become a broken record.

When or if he tries to gaslight you bring it to the board so we can help you.

Btw thank you everyone so much. I would be a mess without you.

Have you posted OW on www.cheaterville.com ?

EDIT: if you have not yet posted, do so now...while the "iron is hot"...internet exposure wreaks havoc in affairland!

You need legal protection.
Tell your story to an attorney and he/she can ensure that you are protected.
In some cases, cheating spouses will try to cash inpension funds, move assets etc and leave families destitute.
The attorney can ensure this doesnt happen.

Also, at a minimum, if he is going to abandon his family to pursue his affair then the attorney can ensure that you receive part of his paycheck to pay bills

He is baiting you to engage in a "discussion" where he hopes to wear you down.

Use Mel's script.

Above all, do not under any circumstances agree to refrain from exposing at his work (unless he leaves that job). You win this round as long as you do not say that!

Just sent him the text!

And what I'm going/saying isn't blackmail right? He said that earlier- "are you blackmailing me?"

Sorry, but that's almost funny.

No it's not blackmail. It's gaslighting.

Of course it's not blackmail, you are not extorting anything from him. You are graciously giving him an opportunity to get out of there on good terms since he has taken such a stupid risk with his career.

Good girl!

Be sure and post his response. We will help you navigate his gas lighting.

No, this happens very day.
Your husband isnt the first man to cheat and you arent the first woman to demand that he stop

It might be blackmail if you demanded payment to keep his dirty secret.

It isn't blackmail to tell him you intend to share the news regardless. And his leaving the job would simply be removing the point of telling.

Don't let him offer any kind of settlement terms, let your lawyer talk divorce you only talk marriage.

Of course you fully expect adequate support in the meantime. WITHOUT any strings attached.

SFL,

What was his response?

I posted it last night!

No response. He didn't sleep at all last night (I wonder why?!) so he is probably zonked out. It's 11:15pm our time... I am turning in myself but will post his response as soon as I hear back.

So far the things he has been saying today:
- you are going to ruin everything I've been working so hard for.
- you shamed me. (In reference to me messaging his family.)
- I need to discover who I am again. (In reference to why we should divorce.)

I am still waiting for WS to come home. He will be here in about 30 minutes to wake the kids.

The line above "there is no qualifier about whether or not the WS is willing to recover the marriage" is something I am wondering about.

I texted exactly as Mel said, but I added in cut off OW completely and come home and do the program.

His attempt of gaslighting included earlier yesterday was "I am divorcing you so even if I lose my job that won't change."

Of course the ideal would be that he agrees to leave his job gracefully, stop all contact with OW and agree to do the program with me (and that is what he responded to last night by saying "is that the ultimatum?" and "Let me think about it, we'll talk about this tomorrow." )

Just wondering what I should say if he comes home saying he is planning on coming up with a way to leave the job because he can't have it over his head that I'll make the call and "ruin his career." but that he's still divorcing me?

that's kind of what he said yesterday at one point.... So I know he is terrified I'll make the call and he IS trying to figure out a way to leave the job- but still trying to hold on to OW and that we are divorcing.

His response when he came home was:
"I will talk to my boss on Monday and leave my job, tone down my friendship with OW, but I will not do the program with you and we will figure out a way to be separate, divorced parents."

SFL, that is just fine. You have got his agreement to leave the job. That remains to be seen. Just drop it for the rest of the weekend. When he leaves, make a plan to go into Plan B.

Just STICK to your guns about exposing at work because that is the KEY to a) saving your marriage and b) protecting your source of income and c) getting him away from the OW. If he stays there the affair will continue and he will likely get fired when the word gets out.

If he leaves the job the OW will most likely dump him anyway because she won't have his salary and he won't be there in Utah.

And DO NOT negotiate any separation with him. Tell him you won't agree to anything, that you will just let the lawyers work all that out.

He keeps on wanting to have a discussion and is acting horribly in front of the children. Very angry towards me. I said I don't have the power to ruin his career and he keeps on saying yes you do yes you do. Very angry. I am taking my oldest with me to their house because he just won't stop.

Because he is trying to draw you into an argument to rationalize his affair.

Don't take the bait. Put on your best Plan A until he leaves.

Yup. Just say "I don't talk divorce/separation. I only will talk marriage/recovery."

You are doing great!! Just say "If your career is ruined it will be because of your affair. I am sorry you chose to have an affair at work."

Then refuse to discuss it anymore. Just leave and go elsewhere.

Will do. He also keeps saying "i can't be nice to you because you have threatened me." (Saying I will expose if he doesn't leave on his own.)

You aren't making any threats at all! You are making a PROMISE!

His angry behavior can be twice as tiring for him as it is for you. Just keep acting like it is water off your back and avoid engaging him or taking the bait. If you don't engage, he only gets himself worked up.

Go somewhere else as needed. Plan A as best you can. You are the beautiful, self possessed, woman of substance!

Let him worry about the job while YOU calmly get to your lawyer and file FIRST.

All his emotional thrashing about will create chaos and conflict in affair land.

Your exposure has obviously had an incredible impact. He has gone from wanting to leave you for Utah, affair and job, to contemplating leaving his job. Keep it up! Take a walk with the children if it gets too much for you. Or go to the zoo with them or something, he can tag along if he want and if he tries to start a fight you say: "Can you believe what that monkey just did?"

Remember, if he is aggravated, you have hit the target. Stay calm and be your best self.

Great job on the exposure, SFL! Yeah!!

What does he think the program is...does he know about Marriage Builders?


If it makes you feel any better, his words are typical at this stage. He is in damage control mode and the only person he is fooling is himself.

Hang in there.

Thank you everyone!!

I just wanted to tell you that when my sister exposed, her WH went into a rage and ranted for days. He broke things in the house and repeatedly told her the was DONE with the M.

She kept her cool, was a broken record (along the same lines of what you have been told to say here), didn't engage him in his fogbabble nonsense....

They are recovered today. There is hope. Hang in there

On a scale of 1 to 10 his rage may get a 7 for intensity, but he barely gets a 2 for originality! Very few style points either.

He's just reciting standard babble from the wayward song book.

He thinks its such a good tantrum he doesn't want to give it up yet. Keep smiling, he won't know how to handle that.

He will be so hungry for a reaction he will dump all over Utah.

When he flys back, can you arrange to have him watched for DUI? Or perhaps give the rental car agency a heads up to check his sobriety when he picks up a car? You may save a life. Also this may keep him distracted while you File FIRST.

If he does give notice that's a big win for you, even if he doesn't make any move to reconcile. That will put the affair in free fall because they are not working together and he can no longer pay for her Nordstrom sprees. When his fun stops, he will begin to miss his per affair life.

Ok- latest nonsense.
He and other woman are just good friends. She has been a good friend to him. He slept on her couch. She's been in and out of the hospital and he was just helping her out.
I have documented video that he checks into hotel, drives to her place and spends the night. WH was also seen driving her car. I also have texts of her calling him babe and saying I miss you. And saw a text of her saying " can I use your card to go shopping at Nordstroms" (but didn't take a photo of it.

He just texted me saying that I exposed to one of her friends that works with my WH and I "ruined his career" I used the script of me not having power to ruin his career and that if his career is ruined it's because of his affair.

He said the affair wasn't with an employee (referring to 1st fling). (So now he's saying he and current OW were not having an affair and that he hasn't slept with her but does have feelings for her.

And that I've destroyed him.

SFL, another critical reason that you should stick to your guns about him leaving his job is that he needs to learn his lesson or his career is doomed anyway. He is a reckless, unprofessional loose cannon. He is a walking liability lawsuit waiting to happen. He should NEVER be in management because a manager who abuses his power in this way has horrendous judgment. if he doesn't learn his lesson, he will just keep this up.

And the fact that this is affair #2 tells me something very important about him. He is not just "happening into" these affairs, he is out looking for them. He is using his position in the company to pick up female subordinates. He views the workforce as his personal dating pool.

You are handing him the deal of a lifetime to get out of there in 30 days and he is too fogged out to realize it. Getting him out of there has probably saved him from getting caught and fired and becoming a pariah in his industry. I am real surprised he has not been caught yet. It was only a matter of time anyway.

Have you sent them your cheaterville link?

SFL, he will continue spouting nonsense at you. You have already told him 100 times what he needs to do so I wouldn't respond to any texts from him if it's the same old, same old garbage...stay off the crazy train!! Silence can be your friend. Do not bash your head into a wall...you have enough to deal with.

This is typical WS freak out mode. I recommend you not say too much to him...especially if you are feeling worn down. As Mel said, if he is acting angry and nasty with you and in front of the children, tell him to leave.

Have any family members or friends reached out to you?

He is HOPING that it is a threat. He does not want workplace exposure to be a promise!

Those who threaten talk a lot more than those who act. That's why he wants to get you into a debate.

Just say: "honey, I'm done talking about that. You know what you need to do"

That will scare the pants off him, because it's not a threat, or blackmail, it's a deadline.

It's pretty rich him calling it blackmail after all the gas lighting and manipulation of you. But that's waywardism for you. Every pointed finger has three fingers pointing back at them.

I'd use the word 'deadline' too whenever he says 'ultimatum' or 'blackmail'

x 2

Do not keep going back and forth with it. He WANTS to wear you down. Do not engage.

Ok- latest latest nonsense is that he is going to talk to his boss on Tuesday. He said he is going to tell him "what he did" (which probably means he'll say he was helping her out and didn't sleep with her and just stayed at her place) and see what the consequences are. He said he will probably get fired but maybe not because he'd like to stay and work. So he is taking back the agreement of leaving gracefully.

Help

That's nice! Just let him know your deal still stands. If he is still there in 30 days, you will be presenting the evidence of the affair to his company's authorities.

Also, his company will have access to his company emails, phone logs and texts so they will be able to do their own investigation.

That's rich!! He must think they are REAL STUPID people that they would believe that whopper. Good luck on that!

I bet they were sitting on the couch reading Bible scripture, right?

Just had a great idea! Since he has offered to come clean, why not tell him you will also contact his owner and the HR Director yourself on Tuesday and tell them about his affairs and offer up your evidence from the PI? He shouldn't object to that since he has agreed to come clean.

Ok- I know the purpose of this is to MB but, I'm at a place right now that I think it's best that we aren't together. I think I'd like Plan D. There have been so many lies. So many. Don't think I can ever trust him again. With him in his current job, I know exactly how much I'll get a month and it's a nice amount. Might have to make a few adjustments but it's pretty good.. If he leaves, it could take 3-6 months for him to get something else and that would cut what my kids and I would get significantly. The last 2 times he was between jobs that's how long it took and we had to dwindle our savings. He consulted as well but he got much less. if we D and he's not in his current job and is instead consulting the Alimony/Child Support would be based on his lesser employment and that would not be good as it is now. Is that right?

Please advise. Thank you all so much.

The path you're on will protect you should you choose Plan D. If he is dead set on keeping that job, he's going to be found out, have more affairs and get fired. Then he won't work again and the alimony ends.

So even when just viewing him as nothing more than a pay cheque, it's better to encourage him into something else. You also want to interrupt their affair at work for your children's sake so she isn't their stepmother.

One of the first things you have to accept about affairs is that no matter what, you get financially raped. It's like having termites. There's no way around it.

Part of your plan b preps will be to take as much money as possible from your joint funds and put it somewhere safe.

You can continue the MB plans even as you file for divorce and move onward.

Follow them.

Sure......file.


But follow them.

Heck. Do not shoot yourself in the foot due to emotions ruling the day. Do not veer from MB plans.

You do not need to worry about his employment either way. Why? Because he blew it for himself by having an office affair.

Whether you stay together or divorce, he isn't capable of being a good and focused worker while continuing a slimy life. I say that with no judgement really but factually. He can not give his current employer a quality outcome in his work. He is on the path to career destruction anyway.

I am so sorry you are going through this. We all understand the emotions you are feeling. We have all felt them.

Thank you indiegirl. Ok. What's next? I've emailed my attorney about filing asap.
Any advice on the Plan B letter? the standard templates seem silly based on the facts that I already wrote one and he knows about what it was previously (before I knew for sure he was having an affair) and HE is saying he doesn't want to be with me and he is filing next week.

Try to get some rest, SFL...I'm sure you are tired. Nothing has to be decided tonight or tomorrow regardless of whether you want to divorce or not.

Have you spoken to any family members or friends this weekend?

Wow. Yes. Thank you. You right on. He has been so destructive. And over the past 6 months he has said often, "I feel so out of control."

Only one of his family members reached out in support. I have several friends that have been just amazing. My dad has my back and my mom has no voice due to throat cancer (barely a whisper but I did manage to comprehend a "what a jerk" from her.) I have 3 great friends that have really been there for me. One of them invited me to her beach house today (which was officially the last day WH will be in this house). I took my son and left my youngest with WH, ALL DAY. ha. had to take advantage of the free "babysitter." It was the most wonderful "sad" days I could have. The ocean and my son dancing in the water with a light in him I haven't seen in a long time. My boy needs light and WH has been so, so dark. Thank you everyone. The ocean today plus everyone on MB has given me strength I would have never been able to muster on my own. I am recommending this site to ALL the married couples I know.

He's so foggy, I doubt he understands plan B accurately.

Write the letter from the templates just as though it is the first time it has come up. You want him to have a clear statement of where you now stand and what the boundaries are.

If he does announce that he fessed up at work and is keeping his job, don't believe him! Either he didn't tell them anything and is playing you (Very likely his plan.) or he has spun and minimized the facts beyond recognition. Put it to the test by doing an immediate workplace exposure of your own. As Mel points out, if he claims he has fessed up how can he object.

Right! haha

When I wrote my Plan B letter it seemed silly, based on the hostility of my husband. I know better now.

See, the Plan B letter sees through that whole " I'm divorcing you" nonsense. It says "I see your bluff and I'm calling it". It has immense strength.


It's very important you say how heartbreaking his affair is and that's why you can't be around him. That's key. Waywards just 'forget' how their actions affect others and their future plans tend to revolve largely around using the BS as friend lover confidante and co-parent.

You can make it a bit more personal by a romantic intro. A sucker punch of love bank deposits. See p27 of my thread for tips.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2520631&page=27

Your Plan B will be amazing. I'm glad your son has you and has this.

Seriously, tip the police or the rental car agency about the intoxicated driving. He is a menace! What if he drives that way with your loved ones as passengers?

Additionally it keeps his fantasy affair world off balance.

You've handled yourself like a star this weekend.

You've struck a huge blow against the affair and carried yourself well. Only tomorrow to deal with.

X2.

I just had a FEELING about you

you are doing GREAT. you have your WH in a panic. this is excellent news. exposure just keeps on giving. this is the tip of the ice berg for the adultery partners. NICE WORK.

Thanks again everyone. Ok need to act asap and message WH. Please advise on my message below.
Latest from WH is that he is:
1) one of the OW's friends that I FB messaged actually works with them so he says he's already "screwed." Or I "destroyed his career" as he puts it.
2) Because of that he is going to talk to his boss on Tuesday and tell him "the truth" thinking he might get fired but might not and if possible he'd still like to work there.

I don't believe this because his career is SO important to him and he previously said he was trying to think of a way to leave because it would be better for him to quit then to be fired. That, plus the fact that he says he is filing for divorce next week makes me feel he's just trying to make me feel there is no reason for me to 'expose.'

So, although I really don't want to contact/text him further, I'd like to call his bluff.
Melody Lane suggested something pretty great and I would like to go with that.

She said."Just had a great idea! Since he has offered to come clean, why not tell him you will also contact his owner and the HR Director yourself on Tuesday and tell them about his affairs and offer up your evidence from the PI? He shouldn't object to that since he has agreed to come clean."

He is also saying that I am trying to get revenge on him and I'd like to nip that thought in the bud. Please advise on how to say that. I was thinking:

WH- I have no desire to seek revenge. I am trying to protect myself from your destructive behaviour. You have been saying non-stop that you feel "out of control" and your recent destructive choices have confirmed that. You would most definitely have gotten found out and fired eventually- especially because HR already gave you a frown for taking her to the airport.
OW's friend will not report you for now because she is OW's friend (and commented "so happy for you!" to a pair of shoes you purchased for her and that she posted on FB." So, find a way to leave gracefully within 30 days and I will not expose. But, if you insist on "telling the truth" on Tuesday, then I too will help you with that truth by contacting HR and submitting my evidence from the PI investigation on Tuesday. Sound good?

Don't even respond to that accusation. That is a classic WS accusation that is intended to guilt you into silence. He wants you to stop interfering with his affair. So don't even get sidetracked by fogbabble.

Tell him this:

"Since you are going to tell your boss on Tuesday about your affair, I will follow up with a call to the owner [insert name] and the Director of HR with the facts of your affairs. I am willing to forgo this exposure if you leave the job by June 24th. I will leave that up to you. I truly do want the best for you, and I would much prefer that you leave on good terms rather than them finding out about your workplace affairs. They will find out eventually. "