Hi everyone.

I'm new here but wish I had read some of the materials/seen some of the signs earlier. I found out for sure that my wife is having an affair with her boss. I first suspected something 6 months ago, when I saw some texts from her that were not work-appropriate and EA type texts. She explained it away by claiming that they were just friends, he was gay and came out to her (he's married with two kids) and that he's miserable because he can't come out to his family (very religious), etc. I foolishly bought this all.

We went to marriage counseling for 5 months but made little progress. Now she's decided that she wants a divorce and that's when I came back to the idea that she's cheating on me with him. Sure enough, I found proof when I started looking (for instance, after I looked through her email, she put a passcode on her iPad that's his birthday!). Apparently his wife also suspected something because I found out that she has some proof (this proof is with her attorney, so I don't quite know what it is but it's apparently unequivocal. I'm working on getting access to it but it may take a few days).

Here's the current situation. WS and the OM (her boss) are at a conference overseas (and no doubt getting it on). She comes back tomorrow night. I want to expose this to her family and friends. I will hold off on the work exposure for now, because it will cause a sh*tstorm with the likelihood that one or both will get fired, but that's coming. What I don't know is the right timing of the non-work exposure.

Do I confront her when she gets back, tell her that she has to tell her family/friends or that I will? Or do I tell them all before she gets back into the country? This second approach may cause her friends/family to reach out to her and she'll circle the wagons with the OM on the way back from the airport � she's very much in the fog � and I won't be able to get any additional proof. If I tell her that I know and I'm going to expose, she may try to "poison the well" and tell her friends/family that I will tell them shocking lies about an affair because I'm upset, etc.

My thought it to tell her immediate family (mother and sister, whose opinions she cares about very much) and a few of our mutual friends who I know can be trusted before she comes back. That way she can't pre-empt that exposure and it won't seem like I'm just lashing out because I'm hurt/spiteful (which is what she would tell them if she knew I was going to do it). But then I will wait a day or so to tell other family/friends, after I tell her that I know and that the truth is coming out. Then she may reach out to the OM and I can get audio of it, further collaborating my evidence.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. At this point, I'm not even sure I want to try to survive the A, but we have a long history and little kids, and she's plainly not thinking clearly about how she's destroying everything that she worked so hard to build (job, family, etc.). I hope the exposure will shatter this fantasy that she's built up and let reality start seeping in through the cracks.. I just want to make sure I do this in the most effective way possible.

I would drop the nuke while they are on the trip. This way you control the story. I would put the OM's wife, your children and the workplace at the TOP of your list and then follow up with friends and family. This way they won't be able to do damage control.

I would follow the exposure tactics on my exposure thread. We have found those to be the best practices. I would not suggest a trickle exposure, but a comprehensive one. A trickle exposure will backfire on you.

Thanks MelodyLane. The OM's wife knows (or at least her lawyer does, he has additional proof). The kids are too young, they are 3. I am hesitant about the workplace because of the fact that the OM is the WS's supervisor and it will ruin both their careers immediately and potentially result in legal action. I'm not averse to it, but want to give WS time to make other arrangements.

I agree that a trickle won't do it. I plan to hit all our friends and family, even those that don't yet know that we've been having trouble/separating. Also, the clergy at her place of worship, her friends in the neighborhood, etc. Any other tips/suggestions would be great. I read the exposure thread, I don't think I can hit the OM's friends, he's not on Facebook and the only contacts I have are professional ones, which I'm avoiding for now.

Thanks again.

Have you spoken to her and exchanged information?



Gotcha. The procedure is to give her 30 days to gracefully leave. That doesn't mean 30 days to DECIDE, but 30 days to give her notice and get out of there regardless of whether she has another job or not. If she doesn't agree to give her notice on day one, you should expose at that time.

What will ruin their careers is their reckless and professionally irresponsible behavior in the workplace. That is about as unprofessional as it gets. I understand and agree you want to give her a chance to back of there, but if her career is ruined, it is because of her own professional misconduct.


You would want to add the OM's wife, his parents, and any friends you know about. The OM's wife can be your greatest ally and I would establish contact with her. Having 2 people watching from both ends will reduce the risk of a resumption of the affair.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

I would give serious consideration to exposing in the workplace NOW. Since he is her supervisor, the most probable source of a lawsuit would be you suing them. Your marriage is more important than giving your WW an undeserved soft landing. There are more ways for this to turn out badly for you if you delay exposure than there are if you don't. Your marriage has the best chance if these affair partners return to find a crater where their jobs used to be.

Exactly this: for exposure to work and be effected you must do a full all out exposure all at once. Not only must a full work place exposure be done before they come back from their trip you need to copy and paste all of the OM's FB friends list and expose them as well.

Delaying a full exposure or allowing a them a soft landing by not doing a work exposure will not bring pressure to end the affair.

If you are placing WW's job ahead of the marriage that is a bad sign. It says that your priorities show's that you do not place a high value on your marriage. No well being of a job should come before the well being of a marriage.

I definitely agree that this is unprofessional. I worry a bit about exposing right away without giving her time to find something else, because it will make it much more difficult and she's spent her entire life getting to the point where she is now. It was undoubtedly stupid for her to do this, but if there's a chance of reconciling, I am not sure I want to put the final nail in the coffin of her career. Maybe I still have a soft spot for her, but that's my thinking at the time. But I like the idea of telling her that she has to give notice and find something or I will expose.


I just ordered the book, and going to read it. The bigger question for me is whether I want to reconcile. This was a big breach of trust and I'm not sure I can get over it.

With respect to the OM's wife, she likely knows, but I haven't contacted her � in part because she has counsel (and I'm an attorney and worry a little bit about stepping outside of the ethical guidelines for attorneys that usually don't permit contact with represented parties). I'm sorting this out with my attorney and her attorney, but I agree that being on the same page as her will be helpful.

Part of the problem is that I haven't laid my hands on this tangible evidence yet. The OM's wife hired a PI and he apparently got good evidence but because of the attorney issues, I haven't seen it yet. So I don't know that I can say how damning it is.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Keep 'em coming.

I thought about this (I'm an attorney). I don't think I could actually sue them. There's no cause of action against him for "alienating her affection" in my state. The only lawsuits could be by her co-workers, because she was promoted at some point, or maybe by her against him for sexual harassment � but she's unlikely to do that if she' s "in love" with him.. I guess I'm putting her career up there though, I know that it could ruin her reputation completely, and I guess she would deserve it.. but I guess I still have a bit of a soft spot for her..

Tough tough choices. I appreciate your thoughts � keep them coming, they will undoubtedly help me figure this out.

My other concern is that I don't have the hard proof yet. Apparently the OM's wife's attorney has it � she hired a PI to tail them at the conference and apparently got good things (the PI said it was "in the bag" but couldn't give me the details since I was not the client). So there's hard evidence, but I don't have my hands on it yet. That was one of the reasons to try to wait.. But keeping a poker face if she's back is going to be really hard, and exposing while she's on the plane and can't do damage control would be really powerful.

I am supposed to hear from the attorney tomorrow as to whether she can share the info with me and to what extent.. I guess that will affect the calculus.

Appreciate all the help. Thank you. This is not a situation I ever thought I would find myself in, so I am thankful for the support.

Welcome to MB sorry you have to be here under these painful circumstances.

How long have you been married? How many kids? Only the three year old?

So the OM doesn't know that his BW has evidence from a PI?

Rusty,
Sorry for all that you are going through. And I hope that you are doing okay while she's overseas with her boss. Very tough.

I agree with those who say expose it now in the workplace. You have a chance to blow this thing out of the water, and that is your best shot at saving your marriage. Normally, I agree with the 30 day waiting period, but not in this case. Quite frankly, I'd want my wife as far away from that workplace as fast as possible. Who cares about the job and career at this point. Gather your evidence fast and don't depend too much the other man's wife. She could be an ally, but she could also be a hindrance in that she may seek to protect her husband. Just be careful.

Married for a bit over 8 years, together for almost 14. Three year old twins (which hadn't made the last three years particularly easy, and probably contributed to some of the problems we were having).

The OM does not yet know that his BW has evidence. I don't think he knows she has an attorney either. I am trying to get more details from her attorney about her plans and the evidence.

Thanks for the kind words!

You don't need an attorney to contact her and shouldn't put this off any longer. This is not a legal matter. Please don't make this more complicated than it should be. We have several other attorneys on this board and they would tell you the same thing. Exposure to his wife is the kingpin of exposure and there is absolutely no reason to delay. You don't know what she knows and vice versa.


This is another good reason to contact her immediately. You can exchange your intel. .

Yeah, I think I will try to reach out to her. I don't have her contact info, only an address. I guess I can write her a letter or I will search harder for her phone number (maybe ask her lawyer, as you're right, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to talk to her).

I imagine if she hired a lawyer and a PI, she now knows what's going on. But it would be good to coordinate strategy in terms of the biggest impact of exposure.

I would hold your cards a little closer to your vest on exposure.

If she senses it will be exposed, and at work, she may not cooperate since her household income may be jeopardized.

I'd just coordinate with her on getting info for now.

Once you have it, then coordinate exposure - or not.

Can you find her phone #? What about driving to her home and knocking on her door?

Yes you must coordinate with the OMW. Drive to her house today while the OM is away on his business trip.

Your wife is destroying everything you have built up...family, career, friendships, etc. She's going to rewrite history and portray you as the "bad guy" who drove her to it. Believe me, that will be her story. I understand that by exposing to her workplace, you will be jeopardizing 2 careers ( her and her boss), however, she didn't give you a choice. Yes she will be furious, but it's her own fault. You are just doing the necessary steps to save your marriage. Your kids are of utmost importance and you need to do everything in your power to keep the marriage in tact...for their sake as well as the both of you and everyone else in the family. When you expose, tell her family everything. Tell her family you will do everything in your power to save your marriage. Hopefully, they will convince her to give you the chance to show her how wonderful a marriage you can give her with the MB plan. You both got off track, but you can get right back with effort. It's really all about giving it the effort.

Did you read the Exposure 101 thread? Since they are coming back tonight, where are you at with exposure?

I hope you act today and EXPOSE! You have been given a gift with them being out of town.
Please don't let this opportunity go by, so few of us got things set up like this.

I tend to agree with the folks that say expose to the work now. Be sure to include senior executives and HR executives.

Find the OMW today, and exchange info.

I did read the thread (and reading the book now). While I realize that them being out of town was a good opportunity, I may hold off on exposure for a few more days, to gather more solid evidence. I know she will deny everything, especially to her family and I need to have solid proof. I am having a PI tail them from the airport tonight (the OM is conveniently giving her a ride home) and I will likely put a recorder in play to see if I can get her on calls with him over the weekend. My lawyer is trying to get details from OMW's lawyer and PI and thinks if I expose now, I blow all our covers and the A goes deep underground.

So I think I can play along (though it may be too difficult, we'll see) and act as if nothing is up to gather firm evidence. The book suggests that this is okay. Plus, this may allow a coordinated exposure with the OMW. But who knows, I may do it sooner if I can't contain myself.

My concern with this is that if she loses her job and can't find another one, I will be on the hook for spousal support.

You are more likely to end up divorced if she doesn't leave the job, though. If you get her out of there, you are less likely to ever be discussing "spousal support." I agree there is no reason you can't give her 30 days to gracefully leave but what if she doesn't find a job in that time? Then you will be essentially making a decision to choose the affair over the marriage.

Protecting her job might feel good in the short term, but it is not a smart strategic move. It hurts your position no matter what because you will end up divorced if she doesn't leave and if you decide to divorce, you will be battling against a fogged out wayward who is entrenched in an affair. You lose either way.

So strategically, protecting the affair for the supposed benefits of the job only harms your position. Better for her to be an out of work spouse.

Dr Harley also is very specific that the affair be exposed right away, so I wouldn't wait too long. You have intel that the OMW HAS some evidence, so I am puzzled why you won't contact her and get it?

A joint exposure might be effective if it is done right.

No, don't get me wrong, either she or the OM -- or more likely both -- are leaving their jobs. All I'm talking about is a 30 day grace period.

Make no mistake, the fog, which she is definitely in, will end!! Even if we end up divorcing, which is most likely, it will be post-fog. If she wants to make a conscious decision to be with OM, she will need to do it in the open, with her family and friends knowing about the A.

Gotcha! We have had betrayed spouses sit by and watch the complete destruction of their marriages while protecting an affair over a "job." The WS ends up leaving for the affair partner and then the BS is fighting over the income with the affair partner! Not to mention the lawyers fees. Not strategically smart at all!

Its your perfect right to chose to divorce your wife over the circumstances of an affair. Its understandable you want to protect yourself and your children from more trauma in the future. And your pause to nuclear expose the affair maybe more to do with your ready decision to divorce your wife anyway. You have a perfect right to do so.

Not to give you false hope but couples do survive affairs and improve their marriages here. Your decision to stand for your marriage for the two of you and your children ---for a period of time--- could have serious lasting positive affect for your children the rest of their lives.

Its just something to consider.

graceful, the only legitimate reason to delay an exposure would be to gather necessary evidence. The decision to divorce does not change that. And the longer he waits, the less effective it will be.

Thanks ML. OK. What is "necessary?" I'm just asking because often evidence is not so black and white as in a photo, a direct visual of affairees entangled together, an audiotape of damning words and so on.

More often the waywards are showing signs of covering their tracks and withholding affection, acting different, lying, gaslighting and so on. The betrayed come here and delay their action steps when they already know. They allow the waywards more and more latitude to continue and become more and more entrenched. Make a mockery of the marriage and betrayed.

It seems better to begin some action to gather potential contact lists of whom to expose w/contact info. in parallel to seeking evidence in order to maintain a fast pace. I guess its hard to see the sense of urgency is not heeded and opportunity is missed.

graceful: I would like to know your story. I am 59, and my WH is 60. We also have 2 adult children and one grand child.

This is Rusty's thread.

Please stick to helping Rusty with his situation and take your unrelated questions to your own thread.

Thank you.

A quick update: My PI followed them from the airport to our neighborhood. They pulled over a few blocks away for 3-4 minutes and then he dropped her on the corner of our block. My PI was unable to get close to the car during the 3-4 minutes they were stopped. Of course, she initially said that he dropped her in front of the house and tried to gaslight me for saying I didn't see headlights, but later changed her story, admitting that he dropped her at the corner (what the PI texted me). I am hoping she'll reach out to him tomorrow and some of my other surveillance devices will pick up something.

What's interesting is that there was another car circling my house � I think the OM's wife had the same idea about tailing them as I did. Unfortunately, I don't think he got much this time either.

I'm going to try to reach out to the OMW sometime soon to see what she knows.

I'm really confused about why you are dragging your feet on this.

From my understanding OMW had confirming evidence of the A from her PI and you haven't even personally spoken to her to ask for it yet, instead hiring your own PI to do the exact same thing.

Now you are going to contact her 'sometime soon.' Why not NOW? You could have the evidence in your hand and exposure done already, why are you dragging your feet on this step?

This.

Take off your attorney hat and be a soldier. You are in a combat zone, not the court room. Please don't take offense at this. I can tell that you are a very smart man and that you take careful, measured, and wise steps in important matters. But in this combat zone, you are in a battle that requires timely decisions. In your case, I would not wait out the 30 days. I'd get the two separated as soon as possible because it sends the very important message that your marriage is more important to her than her job and career.

Put on your combat boots, friend.

Thank you all for talking sense to me. I appreciate the advice, sometimes I do tend to over think things.

Right now, I'm still gathering more evidence. Found a bunch of stuff after her trip, including a receipt for almost $1000 of lingerie, which she denied, a note from the OM's daughters about how they love spending time with WW, and a few other small things. I think she's getting suspicious because I couldn't help but ask her about some of the things (lingerie) and she accused me of being controlling and obsessive (I guess I am controlling in the sense that I want to stop her from having the affair). I also may have some physical evidence, that I've taken and hid. I need to figure out whether to send it away for a test (would probably need a sample of his DNA from OM from his wife).

I am going to talk to the OM's wife tomorrow. I will drive out tomorrow afternoon, when I know the my wife and her boss will be at some event (worst case, if I see his car in the driveway, I can always abort).

I know that timing is crucial and I appreciate your advice Justthe3ofUs. I've been trained not to act until I have all the facts, and right now the two big unknowns are what the OMW knows and what she plans to do. Regardless, I plan to pull the trigger on family and friends exposure this week, I don't think I can stand it any longer.

Trust me, the waiting is excruciating, particularly because she keeps feeding the the same BS about how things just fell apart and I shouldn't look for a scapegoat. So I am highly, highly motivated to expose. And I haven't ruled out exposing to the workplace before 30 days. I'm just trying to come up with a plan of attack that's least susceptible to counterattack. The OMW and I need to do a coordinated pincer movement. I will talk to her tomorrow and regroup!

Thank you all for the advice.. keep it coming. This is foreign territory for me, so the more eyes and ears I have on this, the better.

You don't need a sample of his DNA to find out if there is semen on her panties. You can order a semen detection kit here: here


Are you also having the PI follow them?

Rusty, if you haven't spoken to the OMW, then how do you know she has evidence of the affair?

If she has evidence then something is very wrong given that they still work together and even go on trips together. If she has evidence, then why wouldn't she contact you? How do you explain that?

Yes, just ordered the kit.

I am going to try to have the PI follow them, if they have the manpower available. I think the wife has a PI on them too, at least she did when they got back from the airport. I have a tracker in the car as well, in case she goes off somewhere afterward.

Her lawyer has evidence of the affair. Apparently it's a shared hotel room and enough to convince people that something was going on (showing both opportunity and inclination). However, she only got this evidence on this trip, I believe. I don't think she knew before (and their last trip together was 5 months ago, when neither of us suspected anything). If I knew before the trip, I don't think I would have waited � but of course, I didn't have solid evidence before then, just some texts, and my wife would have explained those away to her parents and friends.

I am meeting with my lawyer (who works at the same firm as OMW's lawyer) Tuesday and I am hoping that they will show me the evidence then. Even if they don't, I will still expose, I have enough at this point.

I don't know why she hasn't contacted me yet, but like I said, she just got evidence on this European trip (she was a day or two faster than I was) and I think her lawyers told her that I reached out to them. But I don't know what her motives are, so i can't be sure. I think she's going for a divorce if she has a lawyer and a team of PIs trail them, but I hope to find out for sure tomorrow.

All good questions, this is a complicated situation, but it will all come to a head in a few days!! I just hope the exposure starts to dispel the fog, b/c my wife is so think into it, it's hard to believe!

How do you know this?


If you have the evidence, though, then what would be the purpose of waiting? If you visit the OMW tomorrow you would be launching the exposure and it is very important to get it all done in a couple of days so it has the effect of a tsunami.

I am very concerned and unclear about your strategy of waiting to see your attorney. Especially since he will likely tell you NOT to expose. That is the standard advice of attorneys because their goal is to facilitate an easy, amicable divorce.

Why not launch your exposure tomorrow? You have the evidence, so have no reason to wait. And if you begin with the OMW, she might add to your cache of evidence.


I think lawyers will complicate the situation and try and prevent you from exposing. Are you thinking they will give you this evidence for the purpose of exposure? I would be surprised to hear that.

This really is not a complicated situation, but is becoming complicated for reasons that are unclear to me. Dragging out a simple exposure makes next steps much more difficult.

Why not visit with the OMW tomorrow and offer to share information with her? [just show her a small bit and say this is SOME of it, leading her to believe you have more - that is what you want her to tell the OM] Ask her to share her own intel with you.

At that point, you can proceed with the rest of your exposures.

It is also important for the OMW to share with the OM that you know, you have evidence and have been to his home. If she does something stupid and keeps exposure a "secret" then you need to let your wife know on your own.

Are you familiar with my exposure thread? Have you prepared an exposure list with talking points?

It's not complicated, Rusty. This is typical affair garbage.

How do you even know of this supposed evidence? If you have not spoken to the OMW there must be some sort of breech of confidentially between lawyers and/or PI. This doesn't make sense to me.

I don't understand why you won't contact OMW tonight or tomorrow and be done with all the what ifs and ???s. That OM and WW work and travel together...you also have the benefit of travel expense reports and credit card activity to compare.

Make sure you tell OMW about this. This is OMW's daughter too or only OM's daughter?

Good!! Although even if OM's car is in the drive you may still want to knock on the door. Confronting the OM is a GOOD thing so long as you can control yourself. He would probably sh%t a brick to see you on his doorstep . If OMW has PIs she isn't going to believe any BS spin about why you are there either.

My exWH was the boss OM...twice. I kicked my WH's butt plenty for both BHs and was grateful for any intel they shared with me.

Thank you all for the advice. I am not going to visit the OMW tomorrow � too much risk that her daughters will tell the OM that I was there with my kids, and he'll prepare my WW for the exposure. I need the element of surprise on my side, and to hit them hard and unexpectedly. So instead, I will wait out till Tuesday, when the attorneys are supposed to tell me what the evidence is that the OMW has. For what it's worth, it's not a breach of attorney/PI relationship to share evidence � we're on the same side, and I could technically get at it anyway if it becomes relevant (through a subpoena).

But even if the attorneys advise against it, I will expose. I need the secrecy to end more than anything� The relationship between the OM and WW can go on, for all I care, I just need her family and friends to know our marriage is ending because of it, not because we "grew apart" or whatever bullsh*t she fed them. So there's no doubt in my mind that the exposure will happen. That said, I figure 3 more days to shore up the proof is okay, if I lay low and not let on to WW that I'm about to drop the bomb on them. Also by that time, I would have received the physical specimen test that MelodyLane mentioned and I may have further proof.

I have been preparing for this. I've read the book and the exposure thread; I have a draft email, and a list of all the folks to expose to. I will follow up the exposure to the key people (WW's mother and sisters) with phone calls to explain the evidence, if necessary. The only question is what should be the subject of the email. Also need to expose to WW's grandmother who doesn't have email, so it will be an awkward phone call, but the granny can really dish out the guilt once she finds out, I bet.

Now I am thinking that I will expose at work as well, and let the chips fall where they may. I will tell the head of HR and the OM's boss (basically the head of the organization) and let them deal with it. If they don't deal with it adequately, I'll expose to co-workers, which will surely cause a sh*tstorm because my WW was promoted by OM, who knows whether because of the affair or not.

Bear with me, folks. This is my first rodeo, as they say, and while I want to move fast, I don't want to make mistakes or cede ground. I know folks think it's not complicated, but I want to have as much proof as possible for the doubters (like the WW's mother). I know WW will try to paint this as just another example of me being controlling and paranoid, so I want to guard against that with the evidence.

Confronting the OM is out of the question - I don't think I could resist pounding his face in and then the WW would (a) feel sympathy for him and love him more and (b) use that against me in getting custody over kids.

Rusty, I'm so sorry for what you are going through...I know how painful and in shock you must be! Has your wife done anything like this before? Did you have a good marriage? Make sure, when you speak to family during exposure, you tell them you have a plan to get your marriage back on track, that you love your wife, and will do whatever it takes to make life wonderful for her. They need to know you are going to do everything possible to save your marriage. Her family will come down hard on her, tell her to stop her nonsense and work on her marriage. She'll probably go through withdrawal, but we're here to help you through it. good luck with exposure!

I would also plan on sending enough evidence with your exposures so it shuts your wife down without question. One way to do this is to upload the evidence to a website and send the link out to all your contacts. You will want to do this with every person, because if you just expose and say "ask for evidence," if your WW gets to them first and convinces them you are crazy, they won't ask. They will just turn against you.

There are instructions on my exposure thread outlined by Rainysweet about how to start up a free website for this purpose.

I would make your subject line: "Asking for your help for my marriage"

Just found that she's downloaded Line2 and Text Free to her personal cell phone (found this out from her work phone, which shares the same apple ID and tells you which apps you have bought but not downloaded to that particular phone � i.e. downloaded to the other one).

Trying to surreptitiously get her pwd for the personal phone, I'm sure it will be a treasure trove. I'm also having the PI tail them tonight at their department dinner. Hopefully he will get something � the more evidence, the better!!

OMW's and OM's daughters. Yes, I think she will not be happy to learn of this. I'm surprised her 6 year old didn't tell her that Daddy went apple picking with his friend "WW" and her two kids. Or maybe she did, which is how she found out.

I have an exposure list, growing bigger by the day. What are the talking points?

I'm going to go the website route and include a link in the email, so that people who are interested or need more proof can see it.

I just ran the semen test and it's positive. Not sure if I should include that info as well (I will if I don't have any other proof, but it seems a bit too much to send to our friends and family � then again, she made the choice to sleep w/ him, so she should reap what she sows).

The "tsunami" gets unleashed tomorrow!

Hi Rusty! Go read my exposure thread for talking points. It is real important to ask family and close friends to help you. When you ask for help, people are usually very glad to do what they can to assist.

And I surely hope the OMW is on your list tomorrow!

I will re-read the thread. The main problem with asking for help is that I am not sure I want to stay married to her. (and my family, who now knows, is absolutely livid at her, which would make it even more difficult to reconcile). My goal right now is simply just to get her out of the fog and thinking clearly.

OMW already knows - she's the one that hired the PI. But yes, I will try to speak with her, I'm sure she does not have all the details (how long this has been going on, etc).

Thanks for all your help, MelodyLane. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

The way you do that is to ask them to contact her and persuade her to end her affair. Even if you decide to get divorced, you want her to end her affair. Exposure is not very impactful if your targets are not contacting her. And you never know who will get through to her.


This will be a KEY exposure. You should speak to her, tell her all you know about the affair and offer to help each other. You don't really know what she knows and you need to know this.

It is very important that the OM knows you have been in touch with his wife and other key contacts. Tomorrow you will want the OMW to call him and say she has heard from you. He needs to know he is busted.

Yes, I do want the affair to end, you are right!! In the email, I ask the contacts to do just that, reach out to her and use their influence to get her to end the affair.





I got her phone number (I think) so I will call her tomorrow once the exposure starts. I don't know if he will be home and pick up the phone, that could be an awkward conversation ("Hi, OM, yeah, its BH, could you put your wife on the phone so I can tell her that you're diddling my wife? Thanks so much!") LOL

good!



When you call, disguise your # with *67 so he doesn't see you calling. Another way to get through is to just drive over there. I know you said you don't want to see him, but you could bring a big friend with you. And leave your pistol in the car!

Good luck with your exposure Rusty. Don't be surprised if a wayward minded affair supporter or two lurk in your social circle, and call or email you to tell you that you are doing the wrong thing.

Exposure is also a way to weed out those people in your life who are not friends of your marriage.

Take naysayers with a grain of salt and know that you are doing the right thing.

Hey that happened to me...OW picked up the phone when I tried to contact her BH. I didn't hang up either and bought her a clue!!

Have you considered emailing OMW's attorney directly? If OMW has filed for divorce that would be public record with her counsel's name/firm being on file. You could tell the attorney your WW is having an affair with Mr. POSOM and that you have information that his client may find helpful. Mention something like him bringing WW around her children...to an apple farm the weekend of mm/dd/yy and a couple eye catching facts. What is the status on your attorney, talking to his attorney? Make it happen!!

Rusty,

After the tsunmi, the angry stuff, job loss and so on...

The affair will be a lot less exciting. Your wife will be forced (hopefully) to look around and fully see what she has created and destroyed. Exactly what you want.

Don't be surprised, no promises of course, if you both stop being enemies and decide to rebuild a whole new foundation.

So its good you tell exposure people that you need their help if there is to be any chance for your marriage.

You are doing great! Keep going.

Also, what are your current list of smoking guns?

Good idea about disguising the phone number. My backup plan is to call her on Wednesday during the day when he's at work. If I go over there, I would need the big friend to retrain me from going to town on him!

I don't think OMW has filed anything yet. I don't think that OM even knows that she has an attorney. I'm meeting with mine tomorrow and likely meeting with her attorney at some point tomorrow as well (they work at the same firm). I will let y'all know what the results are.

Thanks for the support everyone, I really appreciate it!! I think tomorrow will be a lot better, the truth getting out always makes things better, even if it's painful initially.

Gotcha. I do recall you posting that before. Good luck!!!


It sucks but it will be a huge relief to get the exposure over with.

Rusty: Don't be surprised if, after exposure, the waywards believe in "it's us against the world" scenario. Just be prepared and hold your ground. Good Luck.

I have a webpage of the various items, such as texts, evidence of secret phone lines on iPhones, receipts, etc. I've omitted one or two particularly personal details � such as the one about the physical evidence � but will provide it to the disbelievers.

Thank you for the support. I know I'm doing the right thing with the exposure in general, I'm still a little hesitant about the job exposure. But I'm only telling their boss and the HR person, in hopes that they will handle it discreetly and not fully ruin their careers. But if that happens, it was ultimately their decision to get involved in such a stupid game and i won't accept blame for it.

I would advise you NOT to ONLY tell the boss and HR person. If only a few know, then it becomes easy to sweep under the rug or ignore.
If you are going to do the work exposure, it must hit the target as well. You must get it to several important folks (vice presidents, HR managers, HR directors, HR vice presidents, Chief Counsel, etc)

They are both pretty high-level so their boss is the head of the organization. I don't know that they have a chief counsel. And I don't think I'd mind if it was "swept under the rug" if the affair ended and they were separated -- I don't want their careers to be ruined, just that they not work together.

Here's the email I'm planning on sending:


I'm still refining it, and debating whether to expressly state that if we to reconcile, the affair must end, like I do in my emails to friends and family.

I write to alert you to the fact that WW and OM are carrying on an sexual affair and have been for some time. I am not sure whether the affair predated WW's promotion to <fancy title> and what role OM had in that decision. I do know that on their recent <Organization-paid> trip to <city> for the <Organization's> conference, they shared a hotel room and evidence of "opportunity and inclination" was discovered by a hired private investigator hired by OM's wife. I have amassed additional evidence of the affair, going back as far as March of this year as well (and maybe earlier).

I understand that this likely presents a very difficult and sensitive situation for <Org> and I am sorry to be the messenger of the unpleasant news. Company resources and business trips have been used to carry on their affair. I realize that both WW and OM have worked very hard to get where they are today and are both excellent <workers> and leaders, but for this serious lapse in judgment. I trust that you will handle this situation in an appropriate manner and have attached documentation.
______________________________________________________

Don't soften the blow by mentioning how hard they have worked. It is irrelevant.

I am certainly not an expert in language/content for such a letter, but it comes across as weak.

Do you realize that if you want to reconcile this marriage, your wife MUST leave that job!! It is a requirement!!!
They can't continue to work together, she can't be at the same office or company.
You and her will be forever triggered and be crippled in your marriage.

So back to the point, ruining their careers is not your fault.
They chose to ruin their own careers by carrying on like a couple teenagers.

Part of exposing is getting the wayward to feel and realize the consequences of their own actions. By trying to cushion the consequences you are enabling.

NebDane, I agree with your points, except that I don't care which one of them leaves (i.e. if he leaves the job and she stays, I'm fine with that). I was thinking of adding something to that extent at the end. I also know that their company is very strict and risk-averse and will want to act on this.

But I see your point about enabling. I have told her several times (and she told me) that it would be really stupid to have an affair with her boss. I guess she was too "in love" to follow her own advice.

I agree that whole part about how great of employees they are makes it seem like you are trying to talk them out of taking action, which completely defeats the goal of exposing in the first place!

I would not add anything about which one leaves.
Your wife needs to leave.
She will be triggered by seeing his office, or going to the same event where they were at last year, or seeing his parking spot, or any other thing.
You will be triggered everytime she goes to work at the same place wondering if she is thinking of him, etc.

Read up on Triggers, they are powerful and will haunt you and her if you don't take EP.

My concern is if she leaves, she may have a hard time finding a job in this area, and she would have to move (if she still wants to divorce, which she may very well want) and then either I have to move or the child custody issue becomes very complicated.

I do see the point about triggers, but their company has many offices and they usually didn't see each other at work, it was mostly afterwork dinners and meetings. But I see the point and will read up on triggers.

Thank you all for the advice. I've firmed up the letter.

Add to the letter: Mrs. OMW is aware of the ongoing affair between my wife and her husband.

That way they know OMW knows. If any of these people have met OMW they may have to look her in the face at some point or may worry about her contacting them or talking to other employees or "corporate wives" as well if they don't do anything. Don't leave wiggle room.

Rusty

Whether you want to remain married or not it is best you assert you want try to protect your family, your young children from this affair. It's OK to put one foot in front of the other and at least act and take action to protect the marriage and later assert you do not care go salvage. Allow yourself the choice anyway and assert today to protect both your marriage and family. You don't want you WE to bring this guy around your children. They have abused their roles and authority. They can't be trusted in the organization. They cannot be trusted together with your children. Close the loop.

Rusty, you are going into "what if" territory. There is no crystal ball. Deal with the here and now vs making up possible scenarios that may never happen.

Also, what would be a catchy title for the email to the boss? "Misconduct between WW and OM"?

You are shielding your wife from the consequences of the affair. Moving, finding a new job, custody issues, all will be due to HER actions of the affair. Yes they are real, difficult, crappy, painful. These are the things she MUST realize, DO NOT ENABLE.

All true. But some of it (custody) makes my life more difficult if I have to move to see the kids! Or maybe not -- I may propose a fresh start to her when I confront her tonight.

It is often very difficult for a parent to pick up and move when there are children of the marriage. The courts very much frown upon it unless the other parent is an absentee parent.

How about just straight out "OM and WW's Workplace Affair"

I'd avoid bland (legal) words. Get straight to the meat of it.

Or you could say: "Help Needed: OM and WW's Workplace Affair"

You are asking them for help to break it up.

Rusty, I would title it "workplace affair between my wife and her boss."

But have you met with the attorneys yet and picked up the evidence?

What is the plan today?

Like the "help needed!!"

I am meeting with the attorney this afternoon and will hopefully get to view the evidence. Even if not, I think I have enough to go on (including, if need be, the test of the physical evidence) so I plan to expose this evening, while she is away from her phones with the kids for bedtime. I will call her parents, sisters and grandmother, the rest will just get the email.

I will get info about the OMW and may call her tonight or, more likely tomorrow during the day.

I am bracing for the response to the tsunami. I have no idea what will happen except for the fact that I will tell WW that I know, that I'm not moving out and I'm no longer sleeping in the basement (she can if she wants to). And I will remain calm, because I'm no longer "truth-seeking" as our therapist said, but I know the truth and nothing she can say can change that.

The emails are all drafted in my Gmail folder, all that remains is to hit "Send." The website is ready as well, I've had my family (who knows) look at it and they think it's effective without seeming petty or spiteful.

I am sure WW will flip her lid when she realizes the extent of the people who know.. But that's the point, right? To shock her back into reality and out of the "fog." Hopefully she won't be able to run to OM since his wife should be on alert too.

I don't think it's a good idea to wait until she is with the children in the evening. Do you have family close by to watch your kids?

And I think it would be more effective to send the nuke during work hours.

That sounds perfect. AS you can imagine, she will be furious. Just expect it and don't react. I want to emphasize your plan to expose to the OMW as soon as possible. She can be a valuable ally in the process.

We are still in the same house so I am not worried about the kids once they go to sleep (around 8:15pm), she and I can discuss things. I imagine she will start getting a lot of phone calls and emails by then. I can't do it earlier because I'm meeting with the attorney before then.

Yes, I am sure she will be furious. I will do my best not to react, I think it will be easier than our previous conversations because I know the truth and there's not much else she can say or do that will challenge that. The truth is liberating in that way.

I will reach out to the OMW. I will try to get more info from her attorney as well, who I may meet today also.

Is it One form letter e-mail that is being cc'd to all of the e-mail exposure contactz, or individualized single e-mail drafts?

I feel that the more people who know that others on the CC list will generate more cross talk and potential for them to step up on your marriages behalf.

Regardless though, get it done.

I too feel that exposure during her work hours would be better, as long as the company is on that immediate contact list without delay. Throw them into a work time frenzy before they can talk and spin it, although your exposure will preempt the majority of that. Only the foggy friends and enablers will fall for their spun version.

That way, she may not even come back home until very 'll ate, after she has time to think about the consequences of their actions.

HELP, My Wife Is Having An Affair With Her Supervisor/Boss

LTL

It's the same email but personalized for different groups (i.e. immediate family, extended family, various friends, etc.). But I like the advice to combine them some more so that people see others in the CC field. I'll think about it. Plus, less emails to send that way, but I don't want it to seem as more of a form-letter than it already is.

I can't do the exposure during work hours until I wait till tomorrow and I don't think I can wait that long. The past 4 days waiting have already been excruciating.

I hope you include this little nugget in the exposure. POSOM will probably not be happy with WW's cover story.

Good Catch.

What about the exposure list for the POSOM?

Did you scour his FB page?

LTL

Yup, included on the website.

I don't have his info, because he has no FB page. All I have are their coworkers, who I'm not going to expose to for now, to give HR a chance to deal with it. (I don't want to seem like I'm being vindictive and blowing up their careers just to spite them).

I will try to find out what OMW is going to do. She may do the exposure on his side.

Rusty, I agree with your exposure plan and think it will be just fine if you do it tonight.

When you speak to the OMW, that would be a good opportunity to ask for the OM parents contacts. Tell her you would to personally speak to them and ask for their assistance. It is very important that you get in touch with them. Hopefully, the OMW would be willing to share this information especially since this will benefit her too.

You are doing great!!

Are you exposing to the workplace today as well?
Do it all at once, otherwise the spin zone will get cranked up by your wayward and OM. They will paint you as crazy, liar, dangerous, etc.

Brace for the anger, she will be furious, have your VAR with you.

When the affairees get pushed into the corner, they might act like a caged animal. Police might be called, and all sorts of drama will begin.

Now your resolve will be tested to the limit, I am praying for you man.

Rusty, thinking of you and hoping you are doing well...

Exposure happened. She is furious. So far her family believed me but she is trying to spin this as me trying to destroy her life and framing her as having an affair. I am staying very calm.

Will keep updating.

Of course she is, it is all a part of the wayward handbook. If she came to you calmly and told you how wonderful it was for you to spread the good news of her new relationship, it would be a FIRST around here.

Good job in staying calm. You are James Bond now, focus on the facts and being so cool it throws her off her tracks. She will be expecting a throw down.

WW - 'How can you destroy my life like this???' Rusty - 'Any consequences are due to you having an affair, not to me telling the truth. Would you like a glass of water?'

WW - 'I hate you! I want a divorce!' Rusty - 'I have a great plan for rebuilding our marriage and making it great! First you will need to end your affair. Would you like a cookie?'

Wow, unwritten, were you here during our conversations??!! I was just accused of trying to ruin her life and "framing her for having an affair" and told that this can't make her love me and that I "suck!"

I am being super pleasant and calm. The truth will do that to you!!

I spoke with her mom and sisters who all believed me (at least initially, who knows how she will try to spin it) and said that it made sense. I feel a bit bad that I may have exposed the OMW in this, because WW will tell OM that his wife knows and maybe she was planning something else. But you know what, that's not my concern!!

All our friends have been super-supportive thus far, one ever revealed that her husband had an affair after the birth of their daughter. Her friends haven't replied back to me yet, and she claims that they thought that I was "psycho" for putting it together. But it could just be her spin again.

I also told her that I'm not leaving the house and if she wants space, she can move out. She said she will not and we'll just sell the house. I also said that i'm no longer sleeping in the basement and will sleep in our bed. She initially said that she will sleep there too, but now claims that she feels "unsafe" with me in the bed because I'm "psycho" and trying to "ruin her life." I will try to stand my ground and get her to sleep in the basement but I don't want her to fabricate any sort of story. I have a pocket recorder that I turn on during our conversations to protect myself. Who knows what she will do in this state.

Good job! Now onto the OMW tomorrow?

And are your exposure targets contacting your wife?

The next step is to tell her she has to leave that job. This will never work unless she leaves. What is your plan for that?

Good job Rusty!!! Have you already sent the work exposure email to HR and OM's boss? WW's and OM's heads may explode at work tomorrow...which is a GREAT thing!!

What did your attorney tell you today?

**edit**

Beware of the "unsafe" comments- that equates to police calls. It will happen.

Listening to the recordings of your wayward talk to her "adultery" partner is the most gut wrenching thing you will ever do. Might want to get a trusted friend do it who will summarize. this will save you some of the trauma.

GREAT JOB!

Did you expose at work? This is an absolute must.

Beware of the "unsafe" comments- that equates to police calls. It will happen.

Listening to the recordings of your wayward talk to her "adultery" partner is the most gut wrenching thing you will ever do. Might want to get a trusted friend do it who will summarize. this will save you some of the trauma.

GREAT JOB!

Did you expose at work? This is an absolute must.

Yes, listening was incredibly painful. She said things that will probably make it impossible to go back (I also think they were intimate during one of the tapes, though its hard to hear). But she's also still a little conflicted about this and cracks are starting to develop in the facade of her relationship with OM. For instance, she was upset w/ him that he didn't leave the bar when she wanted to go. I need to keep driving that wedge between them further.

There are a number of problems: OMW may be having her own affair and I think wants out of her marriage, which means that OM has every incentive to pursue WW. I've also now tipped my hand about the PI, so she may be much more careful. I think one or two of her close friends, including one at work, may know.

The "unsafe" comments worry me too. I've been very calm and composed and trying to be cheerful. She's giving the cold shoulder and basically not speaking with me. But I did leave the house with them this morning and we all went to a coffee shop and dropped the kids at school. I will keep that up, just going with Plan A for a bit longer, even though it's very difficult. (I'll probably start another thread about when to switch to plan B, though it will be hard because neither of us is leaving the house).

I did sleep in our bed last night, she slept in our daughter's room. So that's one battle that I won.

I exposed to the head of their region and the head of HR. I think they know (I overheard her say something about "leave of absence") but I will follow up with the HR person today and if he's non-responsive, I will expose to a lot of her colleagues and professional associates. She claims I'm fabricating and trying to get her fired.

I am also not sure how's she spun this to her family. They were initially on my side and believed me, but I think her mother was upset that I told many other family members. She may have swayed her. I am torn about reaching out to her grandmother. I know granny will come down hard on her, but her mom will be pissed at me.

Thank you all for the support.

Attorney said not to move out but also to lay low and gather further evidence and not confront her or tell anyone. I told him that this was creating a lot of conflict. He said that we needed more evidence to build a case and use as leverage for a larger settlement, which is something I don't really care about.

My concern is how this will affect custody, particularly if she spins it as me destroying her job.

Rusty, do this TODAY! Call the grandmother today and enlist her support. This needs to be done before your wife gets to her and lies. You never know who will get through to your wife and the grandmother may be the one.

When you speak to your mother in law, explain to her that this is being done to protect and save your marriage and family. You can tell her about Dr Harley and his program.

I think reality is seeping in for her to some extent, after an idyllic trip abroad. She was crying on the phone to OM about how the apartment she went to see (that she thought I was going to rent) was dumpy and she was depressed about picturing the kids there. Now that she knows I'm not leaving the house and we would have to sell it, it may have more effect on her. She's very concerned about the kids' wellbeing and has some doubts about tearing apart the family. And she's worried about being alone, so I have to play that up.

The problem is that he's obviously in favor of her moving along with the divorce especially because his own marriage is failing. So he's trying to comfort her and convince her that things will be fine. It's painful to see her buying all his BS and not realize that he's doing the same thing to his wife that she's doing to me (and so will likely to WW in the future).

I do want to reach out to OM's family and expose to them, but I don't know how. He doesn't have FB and I know very little about him in general.

Rusty,
When I was in your position I wanted in my heart to divorce my wife. The betrayal and the anger and resentment were very hard to get past. But I stuck to my vows in spite of my feelings. She divorced me, and only when the process was complete (11 months later) was I ready to move forward in a life without her.

But I learned 3 months after the divorce was final that my Plan A was effective. And she came back after hitting rock bottom. It was a difficult reconciliation, but now we have a marriage that is as happy and healthy as it has ever been.

The way you feel about things now can change. Put your best efforts into Plan A.

Great job with your investigations and with exposure. Next steps are showing your wife that you offer a safe landing from her fall. You do this by showing her you care and still love her.

I am not quite sure I should tell the MIL this, because it will be funneled back to WW. MIL already knows that I want to do this because WW hasn't been acting like herself (the "fog") so I hope she will understand, but I know she will be pissed. I told MIL's sister's family in an email, I think she was very upset about it, because she doesn't want this getting out. But I will try the grandmother.

Thanks JT3OU, that's is comforting. I actually got a response email from one of our friends confessing that her H had an affair after the birth of her daughter, so it's more common than I perhaps realized.

I am still sticking to plan A - (but yes, listening to some of the things they said makes it very difficult to think that I could ever forgive her and get past all that). But while she's hostile to me, it's actually easier to be buttery sweet to her.

Thanks for the encouragement.

We are not trying to help you get a divorce. We are trying to help you save your marriage.

I am not sure it's worth saving. Especially after hearing all those things she was saying to OM.

The benefit of the exposure has been a great outpouring of support from both likely and unlikely sources. I try to draw strength from that.

Consider calling MB coaching and talking to Steve Harley. Sure, recognizing and confronting the truth is short term very painful. Still it can be the beginning, the hitting bottom moment, that allows your marriage to become new and better. Steve Harley can give you this guidance. You may need the voice in the desert NOW.

Good job exposing!

Be calm,cool and James Bond, (someone already said this) be pleasant.
Typically, now you need to watch out for her picking fights and irrational behavior.
Also be on the look out for the seduction game, where she will try to get you to have sex either to put you off your goal or a rape claim.

Waywards are in utter panic mode at this point and will try about anything, so be careful.

Great job on reclaiming the marital bed, that sends a powerful message that 1. you are not giving up, 2. that you are taking action and being a man.

Steve can help you manage your emotional reaction to the crazy making fog babble and hold steady in a plan for a period of time.

X 2 on calling the grandmother.

MIL is already pissed so being a little more pissed...oh well. If grandma is likely to deliver a sledgehammer then make it happen!! I don't think I would mention MB to anyone though vs just sticking with you are trying to save your marriage and protect your children. People don't always get MB and then start trolling the Forum to see what a BSs plans are....I wouldn't risk trying to educate pissed off people at this point.

There is always going to be spin so don't worry about that. So long as you are not acting like a violent crazy man, there's not much to their whining. WW cheated...she is a liar and abused her position at work too. That OWM may be a cheater too...that is not your concern so stay focused.

I had almost the same situation as you except my exWH was the POSOM boss and the BH was also a WH. I didn't know about MB at the time but I nuked the affair for no other reason than to keep the POSOW away from my children. If I ended up divorced, fine but no way was that tramp going to be around my children. And I was also in Plan D/FU too but ended up in Recovery. You can decide whether or not you want to recover the marriage later. For now focus on breaking up the affair so dbag OM doesn't stand a chance to be around your children.

Yeah, I need to know how to keep him the [censored] away from my kids. He's already been around a few times when I'm not there. I just reached out to the Nanny (who hadn't read the email) and got to her first and asked her to tell me when he comes around. I need all the allies in this that I can get.

Going to call the grandmother next.

And call OMW!! You not contacting her is a mistake...I don't care what your lawyer says. If OMW is ready to divorce her WH and is possibly a WS herself she may hate his guts and will be happy to give you some ammo to stick it to him (and in theory your WW too). The BH/WH in my situation was more than happy to share nuking info.

Your children may be very young but they understand the simple concept of good and bad. You can tell your children that WW's boss is a bad man who they should stay away from because he is hurting their family.

Rusty,

One thing to keep in mind, perhaps you read it here already, is that your WW in a very real way is addicted to OM just as a alcoholic is addicted to booze. Hate the affair love the affairee.

You or I could just as well become addicted to some OW if we lowered our boundaries around the opposite sex.

The behaviors of addicts like selling off family heirlooms, their bodies and betraying loved ones that you see crack heads doing are very like those your WW has the potential to do.

Check www.veromi.com to try and find OMs family.

God Bless
Gamma

Rusty,

It may be the OM who is creating the appearance of the OMW having an affair btw.

If the OMW is really having an affair it may be a revenge affair after suffering years and multiple affairs by the OM. It is classic for OM to rewrite their marital history to make themselves look like victims.

This is why it is important to speak with the OMW, she may have knowledge about the OM prior affairs, which you can feed back to your WW, destroying WW illusion that she is something special to OM.

God Bless
Gamma

Rusty: I've been in your shoes regarding the conversations between "them" and how it makes you question if this is all worth it. You have to remember that she is deep in a fog and YOU are also in a fog. You are in shock. It's much too early to make any life altering decisions except for one... which is to break up the affair. If this can be done, the fog can lift and you both can see things more clearly.

WW talked to her lawyer and is not happy about the email blast, trying to paint me as unstable. Since my lawyer advised me not to confront her or tell people, he's obviously not thrilled either (though I think he will understand the emotional state).

WW claimed in an email to friends that she's safe, that I'm unstable and that her parents are coming down. We were seen this morning by a bunch of people (nanny, preschool teachers) and we were acting normally, so hopefully thats good.

Do you live in a fault-divorce state?

Nope.

Then why is your attorney interested in more affair documentation? Does it affect custody or asset division?

You shouldn't make your decision based on that. The decision should be based on her willingness to take the appropriate steps to recover your marriage. I realize she is not there now, but as her affair crumbles due to exposure, her feelings will change. You can have a marriage that is dramatically better than what you had before if you use this program.


yeah!!

Our emotional state is perfectly well grounded. WE are the ones who told you to do this. NOT for emotional reasons, but for the purpose of saving your marriage. You didn't do this because you are reckless loose cannon, but because of a strategic plan presented to by clinical psychologist, Dr. Bill Harley. The whole exposure step was devised by him.


The WS always paints the BS as "unstable" when he fights the affair. This is routine. Anyone with a brain can see through that. She is just trying to discredit you. This is why you need to make sure folks have the evidence of the affair.

Rusty, I want emphasize again that exposure is not an "emotional" tactic. It is a finely planned strategic maneuver that is designed to kill the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposing them causes them to crumble. It is no fun to have an affair when everyone is looking on in horror!

In the meantime:

1. CALL THE OMW

2. CALL THE GRANDMOTHER

Finish up your exposures so you can move onto next steps. Don't drag this out any more.

I had to take the site down, on the advice of counsel. But it served its purpose (though I probably could have put most of this evidence into the email)

You are getting great advice today, Rusty. Stay the course and know that exposure, according to Dr. Willard Harley who has saved thousands of marriages from the harsh destruction of affairs, is the single most important action that can save your marriage.

Your attorney does not understand how to save a marriage from the devastating tragedy of an affair. Dr. Harley does. Let not your heart be troubled. You are taking the right steps.

In case you haven't noticed, your wife's mind has been kidnapped by aliens. She is deep in the fog and is not herself. I'm not excusing her horrible choices. But if she comes out of the fog, she will return to her old self. Trust me on this.

I agree with this. I do have to strike a bit of a middle ground with respect to the attorney because it may affect custody determinations if I'm acting unreasonably. But the site served its purpose, and hopefully will start cracking the facade of their alternate reality.

The fog is very deep - I hear it on the tapes - but there are moments when a) she's unhappy w/ him (already! it's been only a half-year or year tops) and b) she worries about what she's doing. So hopefully with some time the fog will dispel. I don't know how things will go, but we'll see.

Agree 100% with what Mel said about exposure NOT being an emotional reaction. If you use emotions as an excuse for exposing then you also shoot yourself in the foot and are essentially saying you are a mess who makes decisions on emotion. That is the wrong attitude to have and the wrong message to send.

You also did not HAVE to take the website down. If you did, that is your choice so own it. Your lawyer can't dictate your life unless you allow it.

I was lucky to have a great attorney when my wife and I were going through our divorce. I wasted no time meeting with her, because I needed to protect my children from the affair. But I am no fool. I listened to what my lawyer directed me to do. She was great. However, there were a couple of times when I did not take her advice. I fought assertively for my marriage using MB principles while securing custody of my children and protecting assets. Emotion, whim and caprice were left out of the decision-making process. Those couple of times that did not take my lawyer's advice served me well because they were in line with clear objectives.

Your attorney will not have intimate knowledge about situations that you possess. And his objective is not to save your marriage. You will have exercise discernment in these areas.

You're doing a fabulous job.

I think any judge, in their right mind, would see your attempt to follow a program of marital recovery as a good thing. If your lawyer is advising against it, I would need to understand why. The fact your WW had the affair, and is refusing to try and work on the marriage should be enough to undermine her credibility.

I'm a little concerned about disclosing to the grandmother (who's over 90 and may not take this very well). My parents are saying I shouldn't because if I'm somehow responsible for any sort of health issue, her family will hate me!

I did not have to take it down, but it seemed to have served its purpose (and it could have been perceived as wanting to gratuitously punish her). Most people saw it when they read the email and the few who haven't will likely reach out for evidence if they need it.

The exposure was not emotional in the sense that I'm not doing it out of spite or anger. I just refuse to hide this secret any longer and be a part of their constructed fantasy world where everything will go on the way it was except that I am replaced with him.

Thanks for the support everyone, it makes this a bit more bearable.

It sounds like the grandmother is pretty with it and sharp. And it sounds like grandma might be your voice of reason your WW needs to hear from. The grandma has likely heard and seen lots of bad news in her days on earth and likely less jarred at this point. You could be making up excuses for yourself.

This is the typical reaction of the unexperienced, but it doesn't really hold water does it? Firstly, if you, the person who it actually happened to, can know about the affair without health problems, why would it cause it in her? If you can handle it, the people who it didn't happen to certainly can.

Secondly it is breathtakingly patronising. I'm sure she has seen worse and heard of it before. She is ninetey, which means she probably knows more about adultery than the lot of you put together.

Thirdly, the truth isn't within your personal control. It is not something 'you' are able to 'do' to her. It was already done by your wife without a thought for her grandmother. Since that grief and thoughtlesness already lies in her family I am not sure why family secrets and lies for patronising reasons will be considered a help. The truth is not yours - it is it's own creature and it doesn't live under your thumb. It has as many ways of getting out into the world, and upsetting granny, as a starburst. She's going to find out and probably the best way is from you. You do have a plan after all.

Fourthly. It is a relief to find out. Wasn't it so for you? I was relieved that the typical wayward's hateful behaviour had a cause that wasn't attributable to madness and could be stopped. His family were glad to know so too. That there was something they could do instead of scratching their heads. To know the truth is better than being bewildered and unsure.

This is why we tell even very young children. To protect the vulnerable from that bewildered state of being.

I was afraid to tell my 91 year old mother! I felt I would be sending her into depression or worse. So, I started out telling her that my WH was going through some kind of midlife crisis and he wanted to separate. Guess what she said? "Maybe there is someone else in the picture". Wow...she nailed it. She didn't die or go into depression. She became stronger and felt I needed her more than ever. Imagine how happy and proud of herself she will be if she can help your family. Even if she can't get through to your WW, she'll be helping you and your children. She'll know she is needed.

She could be the most valuable asset in this whole scenario. At age 90, I seriously doubt she is a flimsy, wilting moron who needs to be protected from life. I find the very insinuation to be insulting and I am sure she would too. Most 90 year olds are pretty tough old birds.

You will be making a huge mistake passing up this great opportunity for help. She may be the only one who can get through to her granddaughter.

Where are you people FROM where 90 year olds are so fragile?? My grandmothers and great-grandmothers were tough as nails. I would feel more concerned about telling a 50 year old than a 90 yr old. A 90 year old has MORE life experience, wisdom and maturity.

Are old people worthless in your worlds? They are not in the south, I assure you.

Rusty, what you will find, us that your family have already guessed that there is trouble in your marruage, without you saying a thing. They pick up on your demeanor, the fact that you seem troubled. My family wasn't surprised at all when I revealed our problems . My mon and sister nodded, knowingly at each other.
The Grandma might already be suspecting something if she is close to your WW.
GF

I'd second this. My experience was the same.

Its like the story "The Emperor's New Clothes"

Usually the uninformed share a collective ignorance of obvious facts even though the individuals already see's something is wrong.

Likely there are many people (including Grandma) amongst your family, friends and co-workers whom have recognized something was not right and only now that you have pointed it out they all 'see' or will soon see what they have known to be true.

You need to work on this. Besides granny, this is a huge hole in your exposure plan. Aren't you already using a PI? He should be able to get info on the OM for you with no problem.

You need to run him off.

Rusty, you want to get to grandma before she does. That's very important.

You may not have any love for your wife right now. You may feel she's not worth the effort you are putting forth. You may be right, but you're not in a position to make that decision at this time so stay the course. Make big decisions when you are less vulnerable and have a clear head. good luck.

Did your wife hear from management today? And I don't mean the POSOM.

Well, I got to the grandma so we will see if she talks to her. But there's now a complicating factor that her parents came to stay with us because she didn't "feel safe" (she didn't like that I asserted that I was not leaving and was not going to sleep in the basement anymore). So they're here "keeping the peace".

More importantly, I think we're moving into Plan B (or Plan D, quite frankly). Her friends and family have rallied around her and she and OM have become even more entrenched. She is spinning this as me going psycho and putting up this website. And it sounds like she and the OM are planning on getting married after their divorces come through. I don't know the repercussions it will have at her work, but she and OM are concocting a cover story and likely to counter anything short of pictures of them having sex (even the kissing they would attribute to just being drunk).

I think her family knows or suspects, but doesn't care about it. And she's planning to tell them anyway.

I'm not moving out and I am not to let her have the house. But other than that, I need to leverage the affair for custody (which she wants to fight me on) and move on with my life.

What about the wife of the OM? Have you connected with her yet?

No, but she's got a different interest, she doesn't want him to get fired.

And listening to some of the recordings, I don't really want her back at all. He can have her. They will get what's coming to them, I bet in a few years the OM will have another affair and WW will wonder what happened.

Ironically she claims that I'm the one that's not thinking clearly.

But she can put you in touch with his parents, family and close friends which would be a great exposure. She can help you fight on your end.


That is a tactic designed to throw you off balance.

That's very typical sir.
If you visit the thread of poster "face," his cheating wife claims he is crazy...and the thread of "axeslinger" details how his wife unsuccessfully attempted to get a restraining order against him.

My own cheating wife told people I was psychotic!

Just disregard everything that comes out of her mouth.

I don't know how old you are...but during the Iraq War, my dad loved watching "Baghdad Bob" on television. He was the spokesman for the Iraqi government and often made wild claims such as 'The Americans are being slaughtered..." or "The Iraqi Army is winning victories."

Baghdad Bob actually made these statements while US Forces were in Baghdad! He was considered a laughing joke to any intelligent person watching his "press statements" and was not taken seriously at all.

It's the same way listening to an adulterer...you can find it either humorous or a waste of time.

I disagree.
The grandmother may be able to influence this person in the wrong.
At the age of 90, she has earned the right to decide what she will and won't do (unless she is a danger to herself or others).

Yeah, but I'm done with this. I planted enough seeds that later when they get together, people will know what happened and I will be vindicated. I don't want her back. And the support from my friends (and her friends) has been overwhelming. So that's been good.

Rusty, you need to calm down and stop thinking that you know how everyone is reacting to this and how this is impacting the waywards. This is day 1 of exposure which can be a roller coaster ride of emotions. What you think today, what WW thinks today, can change when the dust settles.

Also what about talking to OMW? What about exposure on his end? Don't let her fogbabble scare you and make you quit without taking this in for a touchdown.

I wrote this to you on Thursday:


And so I am not surprised to hear that the OM's wife doesn't want him to lose his job. Have you ever seen the movie "One Hour Photo" with Robin Williams (May he rest in peace)? Some wives are in the marriage for the money and comfort and will tolerate their husband's infidelity as part of the arrangement.

On another note, I'm starting to detect a tone of vindictiveness in your posts. Try not to let vindication or retribution enter your thinking as you are still in Plan A. Those two will derail your plans and lead to a bad outcome.

From this point it on, you will have to endure a process that is most often long and painful. But take solace in the support of friends and family, and find things to do that fill your mind, body, and spirit with good things. Exercise, running in particular, is a good therapy at this time.

Thanks JT3OU (and everyone). It will be long and I'm sure at times painful. We are not in Plan A anymore, we are in Plan B (she's not talking to me and going to hear about her job). But we're moving toward plan D and neither party wants to deviate from that course.

Thanks all for your help. I felt like I needed this one last push to try to save things and now I feel like I did everything I could. She's in the fog, the fog will dissipate for her at some point (they're talking about getting married) and she's realize that her unhappiness comes from her, not from her spouse. I am going to move on and focus on things that I love, like my kids, friends and family and work. It was a good 8 year run (together for almost 14) but it has ran its course. We will do what we can to make it easier for the kids.

Rusty,
I know you are bummed out. We all were there from time to time as we go through this process.
It is way too early to give up, you are still in shock.

Things can change rapidly with the situation, things could stay the same. You are just beginning.

Sorry for your pain.

Hey Rusty, you are giving up before the battle even started!! This is very salvageable. There is no reason your marriage can't be saved. We have seen 10x worse than this come back from the dead. This can be saved.

Even if you eventually decide you don't want to be married, you should stick to the course and stay in Plan A. You have nothing to lose from staying the course.

Don't give up when you just got on the field of battle!

Have you read Surviving an Affair? In the case study, the WW, Sue moved out to be with her OM. As soon as that happened, the affair crumbled and he dumped her. She and her husband are now in a happy, fulfilling marriage.

I am unclear on why you want to give up when the odds are so clearly in your favor? Do you want the OM to win? Do you want him to be your children's step daddy?

If her affair crumples, that will be fine, but I think there will be too many things that I won't be able to get past even if she comes back. I have been fighting for this for the past six months. But as they say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

The odds are not in my favor on this one right now. I can't rule anything out but she's burned a lot of goodwill with me and there's been too much hurt. I don't think he wins if he's with her. She and he may view it as winning, but quite frankly, I think they will never have the kind of relationship they think the will.

But I'm sticking with the plan. We had plan A the past 6 months, which is how long Dr. Harley says to do it. She's pissed at me for the exposure and not talking to me, so we're into plan B, as much separation as possible.

Sir,
You need to sleep with that recorder at night!
She may try to set you up for domestic violence to definitely CYA

Thanks NebDane.

I know the process is beginning but I also know her. She focuses on goals and achieves them. She wants to be with him right now and she will do that.

In some ways, I'm actually not in shock. On some level, I knew this was going on for six months, I was in shock then and didn't admit it. But I'm slowly coming to terms with it.

I appreciate your support and words of kindness.

Sir, Plan B is very specific and cannot be changed to suit your needs.
You are NOT in plan B. It is designed to preserve the love bank balance of the betrayed spouse so there is a possibility of reconciliation after the affair dies.

Have you read Surviving an Affair?
Jon hated Sue and harley had to talk him into staying married to her and working on their recovery.

Her parents came to stay w/ us so I don't think she'll try to pull any sh*t like that. I've also told people that she may try to do that, to cover myself. I'm giving her a wide berth when we're at home.

She was talking with her boss today. Don't know how that's going. At least I brought some heat on them, she couldn't eat anything yesterday, she was so worried, and they're freaking out concocting cover stories.

I'm slowly moving on (but not out!!!)

Don't trust her parents.
Divorce is war. They are your enemy's ally.

Have you exposed the affair to your children?

The children just turned 3. I don't think they would understand and I don't want to use them as pawns (as that would surely be used against me in a custody issue).

For sure. But I think she will have a hard time saying I did something to her when her parents are there.

Ah...I thought maybe they were on the upper side of 3.

She focuses on goals and achieves them. She wants to be with him right now and she will do that


My husband is the most goal oriented persons I know. He was locked and loaded and into OW and full of contempt towards me and our marriage.

Today he is in love with me and I am again the love of his life. I can move past the EA because we are following the plan.

How would you like to be in love with the mother of your children and visa versa? You only believe today that you can't get past the pain you feel. This might be myoptic perspective.

You have every right however to let her go.

She has no idea what way is up, she doesn't have any say whatever about what plan you are in!

Always find it really strange when people say 'we' are in Plan A/B - it is done by you and is nothing to do with her. Indeed they were designed for hostile spouses.

Also it sounds like you are planning a buddy divorce, please reconsider that.

If you are leaving her, then leave entirely. Don't condone her affairage.

Rusty,
I totally understand how you feel about your wife. We've all been there. My wife left me and our two girls to be with a multimillionaire in Malaysia. She converted to Islam for him. (As a devout Catholic, that was very hard for me.) They were this close to tying the knot (we were divorced by this time) when she snapped out of it. By that point, I wanted nothing to do with her, and I was revulsed by her. But vows being vows, I gave recovery a shot, and now I am so thankful that God gave us a second chance. We are has happy as we could ever be and so are our children. I can't imagine it any other way. I never thought, when I was at your stage of this, that recovery was possible.

It's too early to give up hope, my friend.

Rusty, Plan B means you are separated, which you are not. I would just hang tight right now. I know you have been through the mill, but the best way to alleviate resentment is to create a great marriage. If you don't do that, I assure you that your resentment will linger. You JUST EXPOSED so the affair is on the downslide. You have really wrecked her future with the OM because now if she ends up with him, it will be an open admission to the affair.

The reason I keep pushing you to contact the OMW is so you can get his parents contact information and call them up. See, they have been LYING to his family about how your WW is "getting divorced" and this is his new girlfriend. They might feel very different if you call and tell them their scummy son is shagging a MARRIED WOMAN.

That will RUIN their plans to quietly end their marriages and quietly EASE the new person into replace their spouse.

You simply MUST expose to his family. That is too important of an opportunity to ignore. EVEN IF YOU DECIDE TO END THE MARRIAGE!!

I think you're right in a lot of respects (although this was not just an EA but a full-on PA, which is was awkward to realize).

Did your husband eventually come back of his own volition?

I think I may have to let her go at this point. If she wants to come back, we can revisit things (no door is ever fully closed) but that would have to be once she clears her head and gets out of the fog.

No, the divorce is already turning hostile. And I haven't even heard about her job yet. I'm sure we will have to be civil in front of the kids, but that will be the extent of it.

Thanks JT3OU. This is reassuring. But it sounds like you were in the same stage as I am when she came around -- ready to move on with your life. That's what I'm doing now. If she snaps out of it after the divorce and wants to come back, I'll reconsider things and may give it a shot. But like your wife, my WW will have to fire the first shot on that one.

Hope springs eternal, of course.

Rusty, are you reading my posts or am I talking to a wall?? What about the OMW??

You are making a strategic mistake here because you don't understand her mindset or understand the impact of what has just happened. You have just struck a massive blow to the affair that is very likely to dissipate her fog. But you have to WAIT for this all to play out.

See, now that the affair is exposed you have ruined their plans because you have wrecked the fantasy. You have brought in a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. They are FURIOUS you have done that and are busy trying to do damage control. But everyone can see what they are really doing, and this will ruin their crack high. They are trying to protect that high with all their might right now, but it won't work. As the affair crumbles, her fog will dissipate and then she will be motivated to come back to the marriage.

All you need to do is sit back and wait and watch while the affair crumbles before you. You can help that free fall down the stairs by calling the OM's parents and informing them of this affair. That will be a huge blow to the affair.

Yes, I think I've achieved this purpose with the exposure for which I'm grateful.


I will make an effort to reach out to her. The phone I had for her was a fax line, so I may drive by her place tonight, since I know OM will be away at dinner.

YOU need to clear the fog by exposing the affair properly. That is the WHOLE POINT OF EXPOSURE!! Her fog is not going to magically lift by magic fairy tootle dust. An alcoholic does not wake up one morning and magically see the error of his ways. An addicted adulterer is just the same. YOU must do everything in your power to bust up the fog.

You have not done that.

Go there! PLEASE! You can exchange information and get his parents contact info. Don't put this off any longer, my friend.

MelodyLane, I am waiting! I am being nice to her (but not so super fake nice as to freak her out) and I'm offering to help, etc. If the affair starts to crumple, that will be great.

I am also trying to crack her fantasy that she gets to keep the house and live there like nothing has happened.

So I am waiting. And I will try to get the OM's parents contact info (if they're still alive) to hasten the cracking.

She was supposed to meet with the head of her group today, I don't know how that went but it may have put another crack into things or gotten them to lie even more and entrap themselves.

But I'm not telling her I want her back -- I think at this point, this just pushes her further and freaks her out. And I'm making plans for myself, seeking out friends and support and trying to move on mentally. Whatever happens, I will deal with it.

I would plan on exposing to his parents and any family members as soon as you can. The longer you wait, the less effective it will be. You have them on the ropes but they are regaining strength.


Just let her know you want the marriage and won't cooperate with any divorce schemes. Tell her also you won't be leaving and will be going for primary custody of the kids. She needs to know a) you will recover the marriage if she ends her affair and b) you won't roll over in any divorce.

But get this exposure done asap so you can move onto next steps!!!

I've exposed to everyone that I could realistically do it. Her family is enabling her, because they don't care (I've overheard her mother say they will support her "affair or no affair") and her closer friends have also rallied around her after she spun this as me being paranoid. And I can't yet do full work exposure without actual photo proof. Even then, I don't want to risk losing any amount of custody because I ruined her economic potential and sabotaged her job.

I will reach out to OMW and see what I can do there.

It seems clear to me that WW is going through with the divorce. I think the fog will start to clear once she realizes she has to sell the house, move into a dumpy apartment by herself and maybe once she starts living with him and realizes it's not all roses. In the meantime, I will do what I can to bust the fantasy, but I will also start moving on with my life.

That's an interesting point about custody. I think I will tell her that I'm going to fight for primary custody. Thanks! At the very least, it will strengthen my bargaining position.

Yes Rusty in some respects in order to break up the affair you have to be brave enough to go all the way, deal with your own fears and excuses and be willing to let go of your marriage as it stands today. Let everyone know of the present state of your marriage as a result of the affair. Exposure is the lighting the match and watching it all go up in smoke. Its like getting through a natural disaster or tragic accident. But its out of the ashes you begin again. You are preparing your family for a healthier tomorrow. Its all the uncertainty right now that makes it so anxiety provoking and has you second guessing and catastophizing.

My husband would not have returned to the marriage if I had not stood up for our marriage. So in time his heart and mind returned. It was a choice we both had to make.

One of the analogies Steve Harley gave me during a coaching session:

He was discussing following the MB plan of recovery. He talked about piloting a plane. He said in certain conditions it can be very easy to get turned around. (such as where you are at) In training pilots are taught NOT to follow there emotional reactions but to follow the instruments.

Basically he is saying in this situation (affair) to follow the recovery plan. If you lose your bearings come back to the plan.

We are all trying to keep you on task to follow this plan. After you have been around here awhile you see the same thing over and over. What works and what fails. There are many that will say "I wish I'd not cherry picked the plan" or I "wish I'd done a better job of exposure" and so on. You learn how vital it is t follow the plan.

There are also adults on here who have cheated or been betrayed who will talk about their own parents and how their parents own adulteries affected their lives and what they would have liked to have learned much earlier in their lives.

Right now it would help if you could just decide to slow down your counter response to your wife's affair and simply wait and watch. Follow through and talk w/POSOMs wife.

I won't argue with you whether an EA is worse then a PA or whatever. But there are many here that will say the emotional connection to the other person whether EA or PA or both is the harder thing to witness from your wayward spouse.

Good deal. There are huge opportunities here. And even though her family are enablers, it still hurts her affair bringing it out into the open. Now she can't pretend this is anything other than a sleazy affair. And have you given her parents the evidence?


It is not clear at all. She is about as "clear" in her plans as a falling down drunk. Her feelings will change daily and it will REALLY start changing over the next few weeks as her affair crumbles. Her affair won't survive reality.


Exactly! And it will really burst the fantasy when the OM's parents find out she is a married woman who is having an affair. Many parents wouldn't allow her in their house.

I have told them about the evidence (and they saw the webpage). I even told her mother about the soiled panties but I don't think that makes a difference. If anything, sending the email to all her relatives seems to have pissed off the WW's mother.



I'm certainly willing to wait. But i'm not going to sit around crying at home, I'm lining up friends to go out with and things to do. She will realize that my world does not end without her.


Maybe. They are able to spin quite a few things. And parents tend to love their kids unconditionally. But it will not help!

Rusty,

You wrote, I bet in a few years the OM will have another affair and WW will wonder what happened.

This is why you need to speak with OMW he likely has a history of doing this and you need to show your WW the ghosts of OMs past which will again be his future.

That OM would assault your children like this is more than enough motivation to put him out of work, and destroy his professional reputation.

God Bless
Gamma

ok, good. You have done everything you can at this point.

nooooo, don't go out with friends!!! Work on being a great husband and father. You don't the distraction of friends. You need to present the image of a great married man. MARRIED MEN don't run around with friends.


Some parents just don't care so they will ENABLE their child's bad behavior. I am sorry to hear her parents don't give a rip about her. That is sad. We have had some wonderful, caring parents over the years who stepped in and actually STOPPED their child's affair.

If my son behaved in a such a low down, trashy manner, there would be hell to pay. I care too much for my son to sit by like a mindless tomato while he destroys his life. That is what your WW's parents are doing. THEY DON'T CARE.

Rusty,

You wrote, If anything, sending the email to all her relatives seems to have pissed off the WW's mother.

The value of exposure is not at all obvious to the general public, and was a strange concept to me when I first read about it on MB. So don't expect people to get it any more than they enjoy bitter medicine.

One of the things exposure often does do is either kill the affair or speed up the divorce, what it usually does not do is allow the broken marriage to go on for years and years.

God Bless
Gamma

That's right. You are still married, and you must play the part until you are divorced.

Rusty, when you have completed exposure and you wait for your wife to exit the fog, you should still demonstrate that you love her and find ways to show that you care. That's Plan A. If you do, when she exits the fog, she may want to recover the marriage and give you just compensation, which will help you heal and overcome the deep resentment of this affair.

My wife and I did not recover our marriage just because she left her POSOM and decided to come home. It recovered because I demonstrated through actions over the 14 months of our separation and divorce that I was a good husband and father. I did not give up on her in spite of her affair. Plan A was hard for me because of my anger. Most days the best I could do was say nothing and avoid angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments. But there were those rare days where I would send her a message, write her a letter, or link to her a love song. She never responded, and I always felt the sting of rejection. My own 12 year old daughter told me to give it up. But I later learned that my efforts had an impact.

Plan A feels like farming without the harvest. But your actions actually yield a bounty. Even those who do not recover their marriages are glad they dedicated themselves to a complete Plan A. They become better future spouses and people through the process.

This is MarriageBuilders, and we stand strong for our marriages. And we are blessed for it. I hope you will commit to full Plan A.

Rusty,

You should also inform your WW that she should not expect good care for your children from the OM.

I don't know if a study was done measuring the increased incidence of child abuse by affair step parents, but some food for caution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_effect#Supportive_evidence

God Bless
Gamma

I am still playing the part of great dad. I can't really play the part of great husband because she's not interacting with me and we're basically having a physical separation in the house (she's moved into the basement). I am not doing anything to show I'm a bad husband, but I can't really make affirmative efforts to her at this point, she finds them odd and threatening. But there are no angry outbursts and we're being very civil, even smiling at each other.

Once the kids go to bed though, there's really not much for me to do with her so I can sit and watch TV in the house, walk the dog for two hours (which I do anyway) or work on developing a new circle of friends that aren't all couples friends from when we were married. I don't think that's breaking plan A.


I have done this (texted her that I still loved her a few days ago) but she finds it creepy like I'm stalking her and then claims she feels unsafe.

Any advice about what to do in this situation would be appreciated. She basically wants nothing more to do with me but is being civil in front of the kids (ie. when we talk about kid stuff we're fine). I am doing all I can with the kids and being very cordial with her. I will continue to try to show her that I care (though she's freaked out by gestures such as getting her flowers). What else can I do at this point?

If everything else hasn't gotten through to her, this surely won't. She thinks she can just blend his family (two little girls) and mine (even younger twins) and it will all be fine.

She has her fantasy blinders on and would rather dig in her heels and defend the POSOM rather than see him for what he really is.

If she finds out on her own and thinks logically, that would be a good consideration, but what WW thinks logically?

How many times do we see a WW fall in slurve with a known druggie or con?

LTL

Well, all things considered, the OM is a highly accomplished professional, and not a druggie or a con artist. But I will certainly be very careful (who knows what sort of creep he can be, especially with little kids).

My exWh was highly accomplished...and a workaholic. If OM works a lot, at some point he will be neglecting WW. They are both smoking crack to think they can blend two families so easily. It will not happen. They are in lalaland. An affair is not even close to day-to-day reality.

I really hope you contact OMW. You could be missing the best opportunity you have to break up the affair even if you still decide to divorce. Even if she is a WS herself (and you don't know this for sure...could be spin), she could still slap your wife and make things very difficult for her and her WH. No woman appreciates another trying to act like their children's mother...especially a trampy one (even if being a hypocrite).

You previously said you would do what it takes to keep POSOM away from your children...contact OMW. This is LOOOONG overdue. You have no idea what she may be able to help you with since you have put off contacting her repeatedly. If it turns out to be a bust, then fine but at least you will know vs wondering about it.

In my divorce decree, it is ordered that POSOW 1 and 2 (yeah me) could not have any contact with my children in any way, shape or form. My WH had dumped both OW but that condition ensured me that neither OW was going to be around my kids. I could have cared less what the APs were doing otherwise. Others have included stipulations in their papers about overnights while the children are in each parents possession; at least for the short term. Think about this...

No, all he is is a home wrecker. He is a villain and the enemy of your marriage and family. That is all that matters.

x 2

This is definitely true. She claims I work a lot, but he's travelling and working all the time -- he only sees his kids on the weekends, whereas I'm home for bedtime every time. She is smoking crack, and I'm sure she will start to realize it when she's there alone with the kids and he's at work (or finding the next woman to move onto). Her fear is being alone and I think that will happen soon enough. They're already having issues about small things (she wanted to leave a bar early and he stayed and ordered another beer). Oh well, karma's a b*tch as they say.


Yes, I'm going to work on such a clause to keep him away from my kids until the divorce. I don't think she'll agree to it after the divorce at all -- after all, they're planning on getting married. I like the short term clause though, that may keep him away for a bit and make things difficult.

I am working on contacting the OMW.

Rusty: I'm sure you can try and delay the divorce as long as possible. The longer the better. Hopefully the affair will blow up before she makes ridiculous decisions. I'm in a divorce now and I'm hoping the fog lifts while we cause delays. I'm in no rush to grant a divorce. We're asking for depositions, hearings, etc. I'm even going to depose the OW! Keep file of all the emails and texts between the 2 of you. It all may come in handy. Keep notes every day of what is going on because the time factor will get confusing. I wish I had kept a journal earlier in the process.

I have to head out the door, but this is the language in my decree:


2. Other Parenting Plan Provisions
In addition to all other provisions for possession provided in this decree, the following is ORDERED:
1. Moral Clause - The parents agree and IT IS ORDERED that the parties are permanently enjoined and prohibited from allowing Whore #1 or Whore #2 around the children, subject of this suit, at any time or for any reason.


Their names have obviously been changed but otherwise that is the exact language. Their names were written with first, middle, maiden name, last name. I was almost going to put bdays and a picture of each as an exhibit but it was clear who I was talking about! LOL

LIKE!!!

I think you could have left the names just as you posred. They know who and what they are.

LTL

HAs she admitted her plan to marry the OM to others? Is she still in denial mode?

You can inflict massive DAMAGE into her plans by exposing to the OM's family. You can get this contact information from the OMW or from your PI. A good PI should be able to get this easily. But you can't afford to miss this opportunity to his parents and family.


Any progress??

Rusty, time is a WASTING for you to finish these exposures. This is being dragged out way too long. Please get this done!! Contact the OMW and the OM's family.

She has not admitted her plan to marry him (I just overheard them talking about it). She's still in full denial mode, though I think she's trying to lay the groundwork with her family.

I will ask the PI about the info.

I will try to get in touch with the OMW this weekend.

Exposure should take the form of a sudden tsunami of truth. All at once!

Rusty!! Why are you putting this off? You have been saying you would get in touch with her several times and then put it off again.

Putting off these exposures needlessly reduces the impact you can have on the affair. This is wasted opportunity for absolutely no good reason. Your PI can get the family names and contact info on the OM in half a day. You can just pick up the phone and call the OMW in 2 minutes. None of this is complicated or needs to be delayed.

I don't have OMW's phone number (The one that comes up is a fax). I will ask the PI. I am moving on this as fast as I can, but I have limited info into his side of things.

Do you have her address?

Go therein Person, ASAP.

Who cares if her WH is there. Just bring all the evidence you have and let her know your intel and ask her for her assistance in breaking up the affair and 2 families.

LTL

Rusty, you have been putting off exposure to OMW for ONE WEEK just since you started posting! Why?

You seem like a very bright, capable man who is not afraid to fight this A, so I am completely baffled by your fear of OMW.

Do you have some connection to OMW? Is there a reason that you haven't contacted her yet that you have failed to tell us?

Also, have you contacted your PI about getting info on the OM for exposure? I suggested this a couple days ago and others have suggested it since. Get this exposure done!

The OMW doesn't need exposure, she already knows.

Because I don't yet have the info that her PI got, I don't want to piss her off and lose access to it. And I need that as leverage for custody.

I will drive over to the OMW this weekend and try to talk to her about coordinating our efforts and getting her evidence. I will try to get OM's family contacts from her or the PI if I'm sure that I won't lose access to the evidence.

How can you gain access to any evidence she has if she never grants permission to release info that belongs to her via the PI? I don't understand this position of yours at all nor why you think she would be pissed off since she already knows about the affair What would she be pissed off about? No one is saying you have to tell her how you plan to use the evidence if that is what you are concerned about.

This didn't make sense a week ago and still doesn't.

She can be pissed off if I outted her PI (which I think I already did) and if she doesn't want me going to his family. I really don't know what she's thinking, that's why I want to talk to her. I will try to do it this weekend and go from there.

You don't know what the OMW knows since you have never talked to her.

How do you know about her hiring a PI and having evidence if you have never talked to her?

Rusty: I don't know why you are depending on the PI. You have the address of the OM, right? Do you have his name? Why can't you do a background check yourself? There are plenty of agencies that can do this background check which will give you relatives names, addresses and phone numbers. I've been able to gather a lot more info than any PI can get, just by smart research.

I know this from the PI and her lawyer. But they haven't released the evidence to me.

I've tried this and haven't found much yet. I'll keep trying.

I cannot understand why you haven't contacted the OM. I would have paid him a visit at his office a long, long time ago telling him to stay away from your wife.

I did this once, as in my mind it was a natural male response to protecting my territory. Maybe the 21st male has evolved past confrontation and finds more civil ways of dealing with one the most grievous acts of hostility one can encounter.

I'm not sure this would do anything. He's obviously not going to stay away just because I talked to him and he will probably claim that I threatened him. I don't want to give them anything that would paint me as violent for any future custody dispute.

Sir,
Carry a voice recorder or bring a friend with you as a witness.

Way to fight for your family, dude. SMH.

I would suggest you watch High Noon.

Dr. Harley recommends confronting the OM, and he would not recommend a tactic that would jeopardize custody.

Rusty: Do you know where the man works? can you find out? this cannot be that difficult. you can talk to his neighbors too. someone will give you the info. Can you find out from his wife (discreetly, of course). Confront him at work. This way he won't be able to slam the door in your face.

Have you listened to the clips in here?
"I encourage BHs to Confront OM" Dr. Harley