Firstly, I am the one who did wrong. Through our 5 year marriage I have communicated inappropriately with other women. We have had intimacy issues early on and a lack of "undivided attention" time due to my wife having a son with Autism from a previous relationship and no support to allow us time alone. The situation came to a head when I took it further, and had sex with another woman. I am extremely remorseful and have recognised what led to my actions. I take full responsibility for the bad choices I have made.

I have treated what I was doing like an addiction. I liked the feeling I got from talking to other women. That being said, I have ceased contact with all I have spoken to, and the woman with whom I had sex with.

My wife has filed for seperation however we still share a house due to our work commitments / children and lack of outside support. She is adamant she wants to remain friends but is not open to us working things out. She says I have had plenty of opportunities to do so, and that she has tried for a long time. I do not believe either of us have really tried, however I do not blame her in any way. It was my actions that have cause the hurt and pain.

Things all came to a head on 11th February. She expressed today she doesn't so much feel hurt now, it is anger she feels. Understanding the steps of grieving, I feel she may heal to a point where reconciliation may be a concept she is open to.

So, I guess my question is... can you suggest what I can do until she may be open to reconciliation? I am trying to focus on love bank deposits and avoid withdrawals. I am working at showing her my reliability etc taking steps towards trust. I have expressed my attempts to understand how she is feeling as best I can, and continue to reinforce my love for her. It feels that often this is having the opposite effect.

What kind of things do you suggest?

Fred, sorry you've put yourself & your wife in such a mess.

Have you acquainted yourself with the concepts in the book "Surviving An Affair" ?

For best advice, can you give us a bit of background/context, such as: How long ago did the affair end? How & why did it end? How did your wife find out? Who was the other woman, how did you meet her, and have you taken steps to ensure that there'll never be any further contact between you & her?

Before you can put yourself into position to rebuild a positive 'love bank' balance with your wife, you need to make sure that 'withdrawals' stop, and in the early stages after an affair, ensuring cessation of contact, forever, is crucial, as is making changes to your life to eliminate the non-transparency that you used to cloak your inappropriate relationships with other women.

These steps are no guarantee that she'll ever want to reconcile, but while they're not necessarily sufficient, they are all necessary to allow your wife to feel emotionally safe around you & to make recovery of your marriage even a possibility.

Is the OW married?

Have you changed all contact information?

Have all avenues that allowed you to have the affairs been closed?

Did you answer all your wife's questions?

Thank you for your comments GloveOil.

How long ago did the affair end?
It was a one time thing, in May last year.

How/Why did it end?
I was in a state of denial leading up to it, and once it happened I knew it was wrong.

How did my wife find out?
Basically the other woman became spiteful and tracked my wife down through Facebook. She was aware I was married when it occurred and didn't care.n

Who was the other woman?
The other woman was a carer who had chaperoned a person to a music show I was performing at. We met at the show, and she joined my music page. At the start it seemed innocent enough, like she genuinely was interested in my music.

I have deleted and blocked her from both my music and personal Facebook pages as this was the only way we communicated. I have since deleted the music page and streamlined the privacy of my personal page. I have absolutely no interest in the woman or having contact with her again.

My wife has access to my personal Facebook and I will not be pursuing music any further. These were the 2 avenues where I was in a position to meet/chat to other women inappropriately.
I have also sought counselling to help me rebuild trust and rekindle intimacy with my wife. I understand that time is a big factor in this situation and I am patient and willing to allow my wife the time she needs. I have made a conscious effort to do things she asks, and only make promises which I can keep. I have started with small things, like if she asks me to do some errands for her.

The most difficult thing I am finding is finding a balance between being the loving husband I want to be with her, and being a cold stranger. Expressing and showing love has the opposite effect to which it is intended (understandably) and when I try to pull back so she has space and time to grieve, I feel like I have stepped back to much that it may appear I don't care.

Hi BrainHurts

1. No the OW wasn't married.
2. I have deleted my music page which I had used to communicate with her.
3. I believe all avenues have closed. I have even ceased contact with the fan of my music whom I met the OW through.
4. So far yes.. I would like to encourage her to ask more if she needs to but so far she has only asked a few Q's.

Your wife is in the state of withdrawal. That is not the same thing as grieving. She may never choose to allow herself to be vulnerable to you hurting her again. You need to respect her choices. You can start by being proactive about making all aspects of your life totally transparent to her. She may come to believe that you will be safe in the future if she is certain you have no secret second life. But in the final analysis, reconciliation is her option, not yours. That is part of the risk in being a wayward.

Hi Fred, welcome to Marriage Builders. You have hit on a couple of the things that would necessitate an affair proof marriage. It is good you have eliminated your music Facebook page and other avenues of contact. That will be the key to recovery: protecting your wife from this ever happening again. If you can prove to her through solid actions and a change of behavior that this will never happen again, she might learn to feel safe with you. If she can't feel safe with you, time will NEVER make a difference. Never. This is why it will take a radical change in your lifestyle that made it possible to conduct an affair.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

mrEureka

I understand, and I have already put into practice steps to make my life transparent to her. I even message her through the morning of my work, to let her know where I am and how far from finishing I am. I have removed the music "second life" Facebook completely and she knows my password to my personal page.

If you have any further suggestions to making my life transparent I am more than willing to hear them. Nothing is too much effort for my wife. I went wayward, that was my mistake.

Withdrawal is one of the 5 steps of grieving infidelity I have been told by my counsellor.

When did your BW learn of your affair? Did you deny it and trickle truth your wife at all?

How long ago did BW file for separation? How many other children do you have and how old? Has your affair been exposed to family and friends?

Welcome to MB

Is your wife aware of this?

Fred, I understand that you want some certainty about the future.

Certainty is not out there to be had. There's not a map to where she'll get to, mentally/emotionally. Or how long it'll take her to get to wherever that is.

And even if you had a trustworthy emotional roadmap and a timeline, your ability to affect, much less control, the pace at which she processes things would still be -- as it is now -- limited & indirect.

Better for you to continue to focus on the steps & changes in your own way of living, that you can control directly.

Hello black_raven

My BW learnt of it on the 11th February. Admittedly I did deny it at first. I think I was in denial myself however a couple of days later I told her I needed to talk to her. I told her I understand what I had done was wrong and that I understood she felt hurt and betrayed.

We have 2 children, 9 and 3. She got the forms for separation a week ago and has just left now to go lodge them. She wants us to continue living together, as she says I am the "best friend she has ever had".

I have told my parents what I did. My wife doesn't speak to her Mum and does not know who her father is.

Yes she is aware. These things were the 2 main contributors to our separation however there have been other factors including my family treating us different to my brother and his wife. She has always said the "black sheep" mentality was aimed at her.

That is great advice. I know certainty is not something that can be had in this situation. And time is a big factor, and no one knows how much time will be needed to get to where ever we are headed from here.

I have been doing a lot of reading on this subject with counsellors, and close friends in an effort to make positive changes to myself and my behaviour. I think while I was still pursuing my music, I had a performing name and it made it easy to separate what I was doing, from the "real me". This coming to head has "brought me back to reality" that we are one in the same.

I believe I have done most of the things as outlined to make my life completely transparent. I will begin documenting my monetary expenses and movements as I have identified that as 2 areas I can do more.

As I mentioned earlier, I have completely cut off the OW and have no desire to make any future contact.

Fred, time will only heal if there is certainty. Certainty, i.e.: trust, is gained by creating a lifestyle where it is impossible to cheat. In order to cheat, one must have the ability to create a secret second life. When that ability is completely eliminated, trust and certainty is created. If that does not happen, then uncertainty and mistrust.....and RESENTMENT, grows over time. So time does not heal in such a relationship unless radical changes are to prevent another affair. If that doesn't happen, the betrayed spouse is better off getting a divorce.

I am not following why your wife is getting a "separation" if you are not separating. What is the point of this?

You had sex with the OW last May and she told your wife just a few weeks ago...what was your interaction with OW during this time? It is hard to believe an OW would sit idle for almost a year and then suddenly decide to expose your affair to your wife.

During your affair with OW, were you also having inappropriate conversations with other women?

There are circumstances which mean us living together still is the best option. Our eldest son is on the Autism spectrum and massive changes will be detrimental to him, and we are concerned for his schooling etc.

We also work opposite shifts as we can not afford childcare. I work mornings, come home then she works nights.

Centrelink have an option called Separation under One Roof. We have to demonstrate how living arrangements have altered since Separating. I sleep in a different room. We do our own laundry etc but obviously share responsibility of the children.

By doing this she is entitled to more Government assistance to allow her to become independent of me.

The OW had apparently tried to contact my wife since September however as they are not friends on FB my wife didn't see the messages. They went to the "other" folder. I do not know what triggered her to do this, other than spite that I had indicated I did not want it to continue. It may be hard to believe, and I do not understand either.

The affair with the OW was a result of the inappropriate convo, and earlier conversations with others had ceased.

Thank you for answering.

Dday is new for your BW. She will struggle with hurt and anger..and there is no way to predict how long or hard the rollercoaster will be for her. Everyone is different but it won't end anytime soon.


This ^^alone would kill any marriage. If you are not able to fix the work schedules, then there is no hope to restore a marriage to something better than pre-affair...which you would need to do to survive an affair.

Listen to the clips in here.
What is Just Compensation?

Our schedule is this:

Monday - I work
Tuesday - I work then wife works
Wednesday - I have day off, wife works until 11am
Thursday - I work then wife works
Friday - I work
Sat - I work
Sun - Day Off

There is plenty of potential time to spend together and we have a few friends who are willing to mind the kids for us. The counsellor I have been speaking to recommends at least 15 hours a week spent together without the kids, which is very doable with our schedule.

I appreciate the comments however I do not believe our work schedules would "kill any marriage" on their own. I believe if I am committed to making my life transparent to my wife and give her the time and space needed for her to work through the hurt and anger, it is entirely possible. The only thing I can not predict is whether my wife will in time be willing to work at it with me.

Opposite shifts will kill a marriage because it is impossible to create an integrated lifestyle. Dr Harley does not recommend it at all. That is one of the first problems he would advise you to resolve. Couples should be going to bed together and waking up together and going to work during the same time.

Who is Dr Harley??

MelodyLane

Fair point however I have a conundrum.

If I change jobs so that I am there to wake up with and go to bed with my wife:

a) we still can not afford childcare
b) we have no family support to pickup eldest from school and/or babysit the youngest
c) as my wife is presently at a point where she does not want to consider reconciliation, I am sure she will not be willing to seek to change her shifts to better facilitate our marriage.

Do you have any suggestions or should I work on giving her time and space until she may perhaps consider reconciliation and then approach the work situation?

The founder of this site. It's his advice everybody is giving you.

If you go to the top of the page you'll see the concepts.

It sounds like your counsellor knows a little MB since they asked you to spend 15 hours a week together - but the rest of your lives need to be integrated too.

No you have taken that too literal. The counsellors suggest over the course of a week to aim for at least 15 hours of time together alone without kids. Of course there needs to be time together at other times, with the kids etc. We have much more available time than perhaps those reading this thread realise. We also do go to sleep together most nights as I wait up so we can spend a little time before sleep.

I do understand in an ideal world these concepts may be 100% accurate however the world is changing and some of us have to take the work we can get.

Bottom line - I am 100% committed to working through these problems we are having. I have identified the areas where we had not invested time which I can trace all the way from the start to the affair. I know what I need to do to eventually rebuild the trust in our relationship. And I know what is required in order to allow us time to develop and prosper as a couple.

I appreciate the comments as they have helped me find clarity.

The only thing that will prevent reconciliation is if my wife decides after she has had time to process, that she is still unwilling.

But withdrawal is also one of the three states in relationships. You have intimacy, conflict, and withdrawal. It is not the same withdrawal as that of grieving, and you don't treat it the same. This withdrawal is caused by a strongly negative love bank balance. You have to stop all love busters and start making deposits. When someone is in the state of withdrawal, they resist allowing deposits. Little by little as deposits do sneak in, the person starts wanting to argue with you about what is wrong. That is the state of conflict. This is actually a good thing, because it means you are actually getting through to her love bank. Do not argue back or do any other lovebusters. Just keep making love bank deposits. Eventually, her love bank balance will reach the romantic love threshold, and you will be in the state of intimacy.

Do you see the point? The solution to withdrawal due to grieving is to give the person time and space. The solution to the type of withdrawal you have is to restore her love bank balance for you. That is a completely different approach.

The absolute best way to understand the approach Marriage Builders teaches is to listen to the daily radio show. It is available worldwide on-demand from the website or via a free mobile app on your smartphone or tablet. Information on this app is on the Marriage Builders home page as well as in your devices App Store. Listening to the radio show is like a free counseling session with Dr. Harley. You need to take advantage of this.

The love bank is unconscious and doesn't actually require a decision. Her feelings toward you will be based upon her experiences around you and how many there are.

Think about it - you never 'decided' to have an affair but each little interaction led you on into the next one until you realised your feelings were not as mild as hoped. That was a terrible discovery for you but it would be a very pleasant one for your wife because it would safeguard her relationship with her 'best friend' and helpmeet if she were in love with you too.

Of course she would need to feel safe from future infidelities and this is where changing your schedule would also help. You could be going anywhere with anyone currently and the natural solution to her mind would be simply to withdraw for safety.

I would be thinking of how you can get a shift that is the same time as hers AND pay for child care. If you think on it and look around for options I am sure you can find something. But setting up a lifestyle that will sustain a marriage has to be one of your priorities. You can't possibly have an integrated lifestyle when you work opposite shifts.

Yes that is a concept of Dr Harleys he has been trying to get over to counsellors for years in his books. When he started practice counsellors did not recommend dating at all! Even now, many of them fundamentally misunderstand the principle as yours appears to. It's 15 hours UA time (out of the house, four four hour dates, before 11pm, no sports, movies or spectator events) and 15 hours family time. However that is for a HAPPY relationship and is basic maintainance. A neglected marriage or affair would need 20-25 hours.

Fred, are you here to find out about Marriage Builders or are you here to blog about your counselors? The advice we are giving you is from Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. He specializes in infidelity and authored the book Surviving an Affair. He has saved thousands of marriages using these concepts.

Because the advice you are getting from a counselor is most likely to conflict with this program. Most "counselors" have no earthly idea how to save a marriage and are downright dangerous when there has been an affair. Marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. We mop up their messes every day.

We can help you if you are here to find out and use this program. But there isn't anything we can do if you are here to blog about counselors and not follow our program.

I wouldn't give her time and space at all. I would always be available.

I don't say you should give up your job - only that I don't see how you will ever have a romantic relationship that lasts for life in that job. If you need to keep the job I would make peace with being friends and co-carers.

If you can change it, I would try your very best to do so before your wife meets someone else. If she meets someone else she isn't going to want to house share any more. If that happens you will need to find the money for two residences - so I would say it makes more sense to spend that money on childcare now than on two homes in the future.

Fred, to be clear, I believe your wife wants to work this out or she would end the marriage and/or separate. The fact that she got a legal fake separation tells me she wants to send a strong message but is not willing to truly separate or end the marriage. She probably feels very trapped. But that gives you an opportunity to win her back.

Fred, I really hope you decide to follow Dr. Harleys plan.

Here is the difference:
Dr Harley: do and show
Counsellors: talk, talk, talk

You have talked lies for your entire marriage. It was, in her mind, probably a sham now. You don't need to keep talking - your word means NOTHING. In fact, you'd still be lying today of OW didn't out you.

You need to DO. SHOW. Change by demonstrating extraordinary care.

Again, remember, your word is worthless. How can you make proven lifestyle changes?

Your old marriage was a lie. It is dead and gone. You dont need to pay $ to talk about reviving it.

How can you show her that you can give her the one she always wanted?

If you used the avenue of Facebook, whether your music page or your personal page, to pursue inappropriate conversations with other women, then you should DELETE your FB pages altogether. There is no reason to have a FB page, people survived many years without them. Just having that page will be a temptation for you and a trigger for your wife.

On more than one occasion in your thread, you make statements like this. I have *even* done (fill in the blank)...which comes across as you doing some grand, extraordinary thing to protect your wife.

Ending contact with the person who bridged your affair with OW, an act that devastated your wife and marriage, does not seem to me to be an extraordinary thing to do, does it?

If you have all the answers, why are you here?

My advice to you is to send your WIFE here. Ask her to start posting, so we can help her work through this and come out healthy on the other side. If you are really committed to doing right by her now, you would not hesitate to do this.

Did you listen to the clips in here?

If you listen to the clips then you will educate yourself on who Dr. Harley is.