Marriage Builders
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Can't Move Forward - 03/12/15 10:43 PM
First off, thanks to everyone who reads and contributes to the forum and posts. This is my first post to get someone else's opinion.

Married 22 yrs. with 2 daughters. My husband works out of town as a consultant Sunday-Thurs and has been for at least 16 yrs of our marriage at the same company. Several years ago I uncovered email and Facebook communications with female co-worker. There was apparently an emotional affair (so he says) that went on for several years. They had lunch together often, she visited him at his hotel, brought him medicine and soup when he was sick... When I found out, he agreed to cease all communications with the OW. He sent an email explaining that I found out about their relationship and that he feels horrible that it hurt me so bad. Supposedly she works at a different location and they never cross paths. I have no way to confirm either way without hiring a PI outside of accepting his word which is hard to trust. Assuming that is over and done with, I have continuously asked my H to find another job here in our hometown. He says he wants to come home, but does not want to deal with the stress of being a FT employee with less money, more hours, yada, yada... Two jobs have been posted recently that he has applied for here locally. Even though he has applied for the jobs, he has made negative comments about both jobs as in preparation for not getting them. Am I terrible for thinking that he is setting me up to accept the jobs are not an option?

To add to my distress over him being away every week all week in a hotel, he has a couple of male friends that he spends lots of free time with out of town (hotel guests and staff). They exchange vulgar pictures, texts and emails that is on the offensive side to me on a regular basis. He maintains that it is just "guy humor, that's what guys do." He does not seem to think there is anything wrong with his actions and is not interested in changing. It is very hurtful and I have told him many times when I come across something in his texts and email. It feels like I am being cheated on over and over and the man I love fails to see it as a problem at all.

There's more: He has told me in the past that one of the female hotel employees has performed "favors" for the male guests for a fee. Swears that he got no favors even though I have been on the phone when the female knocked on his door for a "free drink". I made an issue of that when it happened and he was adamant that I not call and get the girl fired (red flag). I didn't but apparently someone else did. This girl is a legend at the hotel because she would discuss her escapades with the male guests and employees. My H has seen naked pics and videos on her phone and even though she is supposedly not working there any more my husband and his buddies still talk about her and make offensive jokes. After these conversations, my husband has been saying lately "I am the best husband I have ever been" like that is a consolation prize that makes his actions okay.

My H and I clearly live independent lives (to our detriment in my opinion) but I really don't feel like he is interested in changing the situation. He gets to have his cake and eat it too. Why would he change? I am afraid nothing will change and my love bank will continue to be in the red. I feel very broken, alone and uncared for.

To add to the discussion, my H is active in maintaining his out-of-town friendships and has recently come back in contact with his dad & family. His dad is not a good person and did some despicable things early in our marriage and after our first child. It has been 15 years since he has been in our lives. My husband has made the effort to reconnect with that side of the family and working on those relationships really hard. No real effort is made for me and our marriage. When I say something about it, his response is "what am I going to do when you leave me? I won't have any one. So I need to reconnect." His dad has real anger issues, treats women bad and has been arrested for indecent exposure (even in his 60s). I don't want my girls to have any contact with his father at all and that is another stress to deal with. I don't want his father to have the slightest opportunity to say or do anything to harm my girls mental and physical well being. My husband argues that he will never leave them alone with him so I should not worry about it. The thought of being around my FIL makes me physically ill as it does my MIL. I refuse to put myself in that situation. I am sure my husband will push the issue for the girls to meet him in the near future. Not sure how I am going to deal with that.

I whole-heartedly admit that I have issues (trust being the biggest) and I have a hard time communicating with my H because I get so emotional and upset. No screaming or physical stuff. Lots of tears and accusations that he says are all in my mind. It does not help that my H is a consultant and gets paid for his opinions. He is always prepared for a response or comeback. I usually feel terrible and back down for a while.

Questions, comments, suggestions... thanks in advance for reading my lengthy post and for offering any advice. I don't want to give up on my marriage or family, but my husband does not make it easy. He says he is happy the way things are. It is me that is the problem.

Thanks again!
Posted By: luna_alpha Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/12/15 11:32 PM
Welcome to Marriage builders. Sorry for your reason for being here.

You are reacting to the problems your husband is causing in the relationship. His continual refusal to take your feelings into account and show you real care is a big problem. You cannot control your feelings, and he is showing blatant disregard for you by continuing to do things that hurt you.

The vets will know better how to handle this Dr. Harley style, but I wanted to give some encouraging words until they are here.

Luna
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 12:03 AM
Thanks very much Luna! I desperately want to stop feeling this way and move forward. Sometimes I wonder how I got to this place and why am I still here. Looking forward to the good advice from the MB pros.
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 12:47 AM
Welcome to Marriage Builders, NeedToBeHeard,

I see a host of problems here. The first is that any job that takes a spouse out of the home overnight is an invitation to affairs. It's SO easy for a traveling spouse to conduct a very successful secret second life. I'd be highly surprised if he has not had sex with at least the one female co-worker. There are likely to have been others as well, simply because affairs are so tempting and your lifestyle has made affairs very easy to conduct.

Of course you should not trust his word about what he's doing when he's not with you. Trust is earned and he's done everything possible to destroy your trust. Hire a PI and find out what he's doing when he's not with you. Research ways to snoop electronically and don't tell him you are doing this. Don't tell him about MB either. Meanwhile read up on exposure.

Once you have the solid evidence, expose the affair(s) to your friends and family and ask for their support for your marriage.

Tell your husband that you can no longer tolerate him being away at nights, that you are very unhappy with this and ask him to return home for good with no more traveling.

Have you read the Basic Concepts on this site? The Policy of Joint Agreement is the foundation of a great marriage. The POJA states: never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. This applies to jobs, the way you raise your children, spend your money, and to the family and friends you each choose to have in your life. If you are not enthusiastic about his relationship with his scummy father, then following the POJA would dictate your husband avoid this relationship.

Work hard on relaxing instead of getting very emotional. Don't accuse. Don't argue. Get the evidence and state the facts calmly.

Posted By: mrEureka Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 11:06 AM
Regardless of what you find out, your husband has to leave that job immediately. There is no future for your marriage any other way. I would start planning for a separation. If he doesn't act to leave this job soon, you are going to have to be prepared to protect yourself. Enduring a situation like this can cause permanent damage to your long-term health.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 01:11 PM
Thank you very much for your thoughts. I have been trying for many years to get him to come home and stop the traveling. There may be an end in sight with another job opportunity here in our hometown. Keeping my fingers crossed and praying that it falls in to place. At times I get so fed up with feeling like I need to track his every move while he is away. That is not healthy for me or our marriage.

The problem I see with hiring a PI is that he and his out-of-town friends have built such a tight nit group that they would cover for one another. I have no proof that it would be the case, but it is in the back of my mind.

As for exposure, am I too late for that. At least for the one I know 100% happened back in 2008. I have email communications of that one. When I found out, he made the move to tell his best friend and kind of gloat at what a good guy he is for coming clean.

When I tell him how much I want him to come home and how unhappy I am, there is always a list of reasons why he should not. Less money, work longer hours, bring home stress that will make him a jerk, he loves his job...

I have read the Basic Concepts. The POJA sounds wonderful, but I honestly don't know if he would enthusiastically agree to it. He may agree, but since we have lead independent lives for so long I don't know if he would be willing to make a change. I would like to think he would, but....

As for the relationship with his dad, I don't know if he would be willing to give on that. He yearns to have a relationship with his dad even though he is not a good person. We have a very close relationship with my dad, but it does not fill that void for him. As a child of bad parent, I guess you can forgive and forget easier. In the past my FIL has done some very hateful things to me and unfortunately my husband never "manned" up and protected me and our marriage. That was 15 years ago and I don't know if I can trust that he would be strong enough to protect me and my kids. I imagine something rude being said or done at a family gathering with my kids around and I am the only one willing to leave the situation. I could see my husband and his family pushing back and there I would be all alone trying to escape the situation.

Relaxing is very hard. I am a big ball of emotions and easily unraveled. I can work on the accusations and arguing. I am a passive person and hate conflict so I am good at holding it in until something causes me to erupt.

Thanks again and I hope everyone has a good weekend.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 01:17 PM
I agree. One of his excuses not to leave the job is that he is afraid we will be miserable learning to live a normal life together. I have told him that is a risk I am willing to take. The way things are now, is not working for me. I have explained worst case is we realize we truly don't want to be together and move on. But the best case scenario is that we find that love again and build a strong marriage, move forward and live happily ever after.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 01:18 PM
You can't wait for him to do this. There are so many red flags that he is now a serial cheat - the original affair has flourished and new girls have been added.

He's not going to give up the job. It's now his happy hunting ground.

Your FiL will now have whatever access to the girls he likes because he is privy to your husbands guy secrets. They are now both serial cheats.

Don't sit on the tracks waiting for the train. Separate until the job situation and travelling changes. No one could live like this.

If you were snooping, you'd find a host of new affairs. More than just the stuff he lets you see.

However since the original affair continues unabated, you should just separate without snooping for more.

Did you expose his affair and to who?

Do your children know? Affairs can be caused in their future if their parents affair is covered up.

Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Thank you very much for your thoughts. I have been trying for many years to get him to come home and stop the traveling. There may be an end in sight with another job opportunity here in our hometown. Keeping my fingers crossed and praying that it falls in to place. At times I get so fed up with feeling like I need to track his every move while he is away. That is not healthy for me or our marriage.


You should have spyware on everything.

It's only bad for you if it shows you bad things. The goal is for him to live an honourable life and for the spyware revelations to bore you.

I bet he goes on about trust a lot, huh?

Posted By: wenang Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 01:42 PM
I agree with the above comments. I want to add that I know plenty of consultants who are very successful. The ones who do a lot of travel are young. The older more experienced consultants with families manage to find positions condusive to their family lifestyle. It's a normal progression. Since your H hasn't done that progression, he is either not good at what he does, or prefers the travel. All the consultants I know, who have families, HATE the travel, even if it's a few times a year. It's a big RED FLAG if he likes it and prefers it to another position with little or no travel.

Regarding your father-in-law, the reconnection is not uncommon. My soon to be ex has also reconnected with his family. These men know they will need their support when they eventually destroy their family. Your H is setting himself up IMO. My H also told me he has been the best husband and father. These men try and validate themselves and they need justification for their actions. The next thing will be when you actually catch him cheating. He will feel entitlement and justification. He will say you didn't show appreciation for all he does as a wonderful husband and father. It's coming....trust me.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
I agree. One of his excuses not to leave the job is that he is afraid we will be miserable learning to live a normal life together. I have told him that is a risk I am willing to take. The way things are now, is not working for me. I have explained worst case is we realize we truly don't want to be together and move on. But the best case scenario is that we find that love again and build a strong marriage, move forward and live happily ever after.

Need, it is not a risk, it is the solution. The only solution for your marriage. You don't have a marriage otherwise. The risk is continuing the travel, because it has pretty much destroyed your marriage. If you want your marriage to change, you will have to change that.

And I agree he probably won't do that, because he is having an affair. If he stops traveling, he would have to give up his affair and his independent lifestyle.

You have nothing to lose but everything to gain if you hire a PI and get the evidence of an affair. You can use this evidence to blow up his affair by exposing it. If you can ruin his affair, he may be motivated to come home and work on his marriage. Otherwise, there is nothing to save here and you should plan on separating. If he doesn't change, his treatment will cause you enormous emotional and physical problems. This is why Dr. Harley recommends that women separate in 3-4 weeks in these situations. They have nervous breakdowns from living this way.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
It has been 15 years since he has been in our lives. My husband has made the effort to reconnect with that side of the family and working on those relationships really hard. No real effort is made for me and our marriage. When I say something about it, his response is "what am I going to do when you leave me? I won't have any one. So I need to reconnect."


I think you will need to be separated for quite a while and really let him stew in the gutter with these people. He is telling you with these words that he would rather you left him than lose his gutteral habits.


Reconnecting with bad dad is also a sign of an affair. People's personalities change when in affairs so they change their relationships too. Good people make them feel guilty. Bad people are safe.

If the addiction of the affair is broken, his personality would revert to what it was. But you will not get any help from him. The prospect of a 'normal life' to an addict IS miserable.

This must be absolutely heart breaking to his mother, watching history repeat itself. Does she knows about his affair?
Posted By: happyheart Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 04:21 PM
A PI can get you the evidence easily by checking up on him at this infamous "hotel" (some would call it brothel) of his.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 04:36 PM
So is it normal and stupid to want to believe there is no one else? I can't confirm there have been other women. I can't swear that his actions are not open and transparent. At least as much as they can be living the way we do.

I believe that I will fight tooth and nail as it relates to my girls and FIL. Words and actions cannot be taken back and I don't want my girls to have to deal with people and issues that he would bring into their lives. I want to say maybe when they grow up, but they are 15 & 12. They would probably understand completely. But I don't believe my husband would tell the girls or let me tell the girls about the things FIL has done in his past. I have never been allowed to say disparaging things about him thus far.

You could probably say that I did not expose the affair. The only people that know are 3 or 4 close friends. Family has no idea. Kids definitely don't know about the affair. The affair was going on in 2008 and I did not figure it out until 2010. The OW married a year or so later and has had a couple of kids.

Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 04:41 PM
My husband is very technologically savvy so it would be really hard to do anything on the sly. It would have to be in his face and then yes, I would hear the trust talk. He would probably go along with it if I pressured him, but I think he would find a way around it.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 04:51 PM
I think my husband is tired of traveling, but he has such a great set up out of town. He stays in the same hotel (for cheap), same flights, has a car there, has a 5-10 minute commute to work, eats out every night, socializes with hotel staff and guests, can spend all his free time doing what he wants including countless hours online or playing games on his phone (he does that away and at home).

I gets LOTS of justification. That should be his middle name. And I am not witty or smart enough to call him out in the moment.

What I don't understand is his need/urge to repair a relationship with such a toxic person and put absolutely no effort into repairing our relationship.
Posted By: susiew Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
What I don't understand is his need/urge to repair a relationship with such a toxic person and put absolutely no effort into repairing our relationship.

He is a wayward, you'll never understand their thinking, so don't waste time. Find out if there is an affair currently and expose
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:01 PM
I have the nervous break downs. Seems like they come every 3-6 months like clock work.

My H is home right now for another 2 weeks. Hopefully the job opportunity here will pan out. Last night he sounded a little more upbeat about the 2nd job he just heard about. I would like nothing more than for him to fly back to the consulting job, pack his stuff and come home for good. I think it will be difficult mainly for him to adjust to the married lifestyle all the time but it not something we cannot get past. I am still married, still trying to make it work... that says something about what I will put up with and endure.

Without evidence of a more recent affair actually happening, I don't know if I would feel justified in separating at this point. I know you are shaking your head and I would be too. It is amazing what you will actually put up with in a relationship. I use to think I would never put up with crap like this.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:09 PM
Just a word of thanks to everyone again for providing feedback. Since I have not exposed, it is hard not being able to talk about our issues and my concerns with others in my life. Just the quick responses last night helped me have a little better attitude when talking to H.
Posted By: markos Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Since I have not exposed

There is a fix for that problem. Walk through the guidance provided for you here and expose. If you have problems that make it difficult to expose, post them here and let people walk you through the solutions.

The posters here have expertly guided many people through the trauma that you are going through. Those who have listened and followed the advice have wound up much happier and healthier.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
My husband is very technologically savvy so it would be really hard to do anything on the sly.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Unless he is employed in information security I would bet you could probably snoop on him without too much difficulty if you were careful. The OI forum has lots of great information on how to get started.

Many WSes with IT experience have been snooped on successfully before here.
Posted By: markos Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Without evidence of a more recent affair actually happening, I don't know if I would feel justified in separating at this point.

I'd feel justified separating for any of these:

* My spouse had a traveling job and wouldn't quit
* My spouse won't give me 100% transparency so that I can tell they are honest and not living a secret second life
* My spouse previously had an affair and our marriage has not recovered

The bottom line is what your husband is doing is making you miserable and the pain you feel as a result of his actions is only going to increase. Separation now, early on, gives him a chance to decide to correct the situation in time for you to still feel like staying married to him. It's a kindness to him as well as to you.
Posted By: markos Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
I have the nervous break downs.

...

Without evidence of a more recent affair actually happening, I don't know if I would feel justified in separating at this point.

Nervous break downs and a husband who won't cooperate are a reason that separation is urgently needed. Unless your husband is willing to stop the traveling job, your nervous break downs are only going to get worse.

There's no question that separation is justified.

Please get a private investigator and get the evidence you need to expose his affair and get the support you need.
Posted By: wenang Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 05:52 PM
Need: As I said before, I know many successful consultants and they stay in 5 star hotels, eat at great restaurants, etc etc. Not one of them prefers it to working near home and near family...NOT A ONE! They ALL get out of it after establishing themselves and get into a better lifestyle. Unless, there is some reason they prefer to be more independent. Your husband is giving you a line of crap and you have bought into it for years. It's time to smarten yourself up. It's my opinion, from your messages, that you have enough evidence right now. the best evidence is your gut. 2. your husband acting somewhat aloof or different. 3. He said he is reconnecting with his father in case you leave him.

You can sit him down, tell him you have concerns and his actions have led you to doubt what he is says. Is he going to get enraged and say you are horrible for questioning his trust? Maybe. But a man who is completely innocent would understand, apologize for giving you such agony, and prove he is trustworthy by handing over all his phone records, or anything else which would prove him to be 100% innocent. A good man would feel horrible to have you worry when he is away on business.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 06:39 PM
You make some good points wenang.

My husband claims to be completely transparent. I have his passwords and access to his phone. I recently found an email is was exchanging with a guy friend that was inappropriate. When I made a deal of it, he made the comment that he intentionally does not delete stuff so I won't have anything to worry about. He also said "maybe I should start deleting things so you won't be worried". He is a good man, but not good enough to feel horrible because it is clear he is pretty selfish.

So, does any one have suggestions as to how I should tell him once and for all very clearly that he has to come home and stop traveling to save our marriage? No exceptions... Without sounding to demanding...
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by happyheart
A PI can get you the evidence easily by checking up on him at this infamous "hotel" (some would call it brothel) of his.
Originally Posted by happyheart
A PI can get you the evidence easily by checking up on him at this infamous "hotel" (some would call it brothel) of his.


X2. A faithful man would not be tolerated in this fellowship. He would need to behave very badly, very publicly to keep their 'friendship'.

I'm sorry but he likes it.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
So is it normal and stupid to want to believe there is no one else? I can't confirm there have been other women. I can't swear that his actions are not open and transparent. At least as much as they can be living the way we do.

WE don't want you to operate on blind faith. We want you to find out the truth. You can't fix a problem is you don't know the facts. There are many, many red flags here that need to explored.

Quote
I believe that I will fight tooth and nail as it relates to my girls and FIL. Words and actions cannot be taken back and I don't want my girls to have to deal with people and issues that he would bring into their lives. I want to say maybe when they grow up, but they are 15 & 12. They would probably understand completely. But I don't believe my husband would tell the girls or let me tell the girls about the things FIL has done in his past. I have never been allowed to say disparaging things about him thus far.

You don't need his permission to tell your daughters or anyone else. You are an adult woman, not a child. Your children need to know the facts if there is an affair.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
My husband is very technologically savvy so it would be really hard to do anything on the sly. It would have to be in his face and then yes, I would hear the trust talk. He would probably go along with it if I pressured him, but I think he would find a way around it.

This won't work at all. You need to hire a PI on the sly and have him tailed. A good PI can get the goods in 2-3 days. You need to be like James Bond and be much more strategic if you want to solve this problem.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
I am still married, still trying to make it work... that says something about what I will put up with and endure..

YEs, it says you are not using good judgment in your situation. Just staying in a bad marriage where you are neglected is not a good sign, it is a bad sign.
Posted By: Loyal2afault Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
So, does any one have suggestions as to how I should tell him once and for all very clearly that he has to come home and stop traveling to save our marriage? No exceptions... Without sounding to demanding...
Need, you can't tell anyone what to do. Everyone gets to make their own choices in life.

You get to decide what you will and will not tolerate in a relationship. When you know what you don't want, you know what you do want. You simply tell your H that having a husband who does not travel for work is important to you. Your idea of a marriage is to have someone around to share your life with, not someone who is constantly gone. He gets to decide whether or not he wants to stop traveling. If he does not, then you get to decide whether or not you want to stay in this relationship.

It never works to tell someone what they must do. Even if they do it, it isn't sustainable. They will resent you, and they will eventually lie to you about what they are doing because chances are they will revert to their old behavior.

It took me a long time to realize and accept this premise. Your focus needs to be on you.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
So, does any one have suggestions as to how I should tell him once and for all very clearly that he has to come home and stop traveling to save our marriage? No exceptions... Without sounding to demanding...


You don't confront him, your exposure targets do. He will then come after you, very angry, but you should let him talk himself out, try to appear bored (not hard, it will be a very boring rant about trust).

Then you ask where he is going to stay unless he agrees to a very long checklist ENTHUSIASTICALLY.

His reply won't be enthusiastic and loving enough for your very high standards, probably. He's clearly quite in love with himself. If it is a good response, great. If not, if it's even a tiny bit reluctant, say it's not very impressive and quietly start dialling locksmiths to change the locks.

Your best chances involve drawing a hard line and kicking him out to hit rock bottom.

Saving yourself. You'll be a nervous, haggard wreck, competing with professional mistresses.

But you need your PI evidence first.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:18 PM
Here, Private Investigators
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Loyal2afault
You get to decide what you will and will not tolerate in a relationship. When you know what you don't want, you know what you do want.


Exactly, he can leave and be a frat boy and have all the girls he wants. You aren't demanding anything.

HE is the one demanding having both. Demanding that he has you too and that you endure it.

It is not demanding to draw boundaries and accept only loving care.

Please stop trying to impress him with how much abuse you can 'endure'. He thinks you're a vegetable.

Posted By: markos Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
My husband is very technologically savvy so it would be really hard to do anything on the sly.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Unless he is employed in information security I would bet you could probably snoop on him without too much difficulty if you were careful. The OI forum has lots of great information on how to get started.

Many WSes with IT experience have been snooped on successfully before here.

I am a computer programmer and my wife was able to get a keylogger onto my computer last year without my knowing.
Posted By: markos Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
My husband is very technologically savvy so it would be really hard to do anything on the sly. It would have to be in his face and then yes, I would hear the trust talk. He would probably go along with it if I pressured him, but I think he would find a way around it.

This won't work at all. You need to hire a PI on the sly and have him tailed. A good PI can get the goods in 2-3 days. You need to be like James Bond and be much more strategic if you want to solve this problem.

Need, I really hope you will listen to MelodyLane's advice. Do you see that she has been on this forum for over 10 years? Do you see that she has made over 80,000 posts? She has worked with many, many people in your situation, and she has been learning Dr. Harley's materials for years and years. She knows what she is talking about and if you will trust her and follow her expert guidance, she will help you get through this.
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
You make some good points wenang.

My husband claims to be completely transparent. I have his passwords and access to his phone. I recently found an email is was exchanging with a guy friend that was inappropriate. When I made a deal of it, he made the comment that he intentionally does not delete stuff so I won't have anything to worry about. He also said "maybe I should start deleting things so you won't be worried". He is a good man, but not good enough to feel horrible because it is clear he is pretty selfish.

So, does any one have suggestions as to how I should tell him once and for all very clearly that he has to come home and stop traveling to save our marriage? No exceptions... Without sounding to demanding...

I hope you are paying attention to the posts. You came to this forum wanting expert advise and you are getting it.

You need to hire a PI to find out what your husband is up to. Then you need to expose not only this affair but his other affairs. This is so you can get emotional support for yourself and for accountability for your husband.

You need to tell your husband that you no longer can tolerate his traveling job. It's not good for your emotional health to live this way. If he continues to ignore your complaints, Dr. Harley would advise you to separate. Separation is risky but living in a longterm poor marriage is very bad for your health.

What your H doesn't understand is that a great marriage will actually bring him (and you!) great happiness in life - much more happiness than a life of travel and carousing could ever bring. Are you really willing to continue to live this way? This is a very sad lesson for your children to learn about marriage. Marriage isn't about sticking with a spouse no matter how badly he or she treats you. Marriage is about two people who care about and for each other.
Posted By: wenang Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/13/15 09:56 PM
Need: Do you have access to his computer? Do you know how to check the history of all the past log ins? You can see if he has any email accounts you don't know about. Also, if the history has been deleted by your saavy husband, that is also a big red flag. Can you check his car when you isn't around? Look for any sign of a 3rd phone or anything suspicious. Check his coat pockets too. If something is up, you're bound to find something. There's usually a slip up, even with the smartest men. Can you look through his wallet? Do you have access to all his credit card statements? Does he have any cards you don't know about? These are some ideas you can do before the PI.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/14/15 03:05 PM
I have to call bull excrement on this thread.

This WH does not have a consulting job.

He spends Sunday through Thursday staying at the same hotel every week. As if it is his second home.

When a WH works in the same town week after week only to come back to his BW on the weekends all he is doing is avoiding commuting (even if the job is to far to come home every day).

Either he moves his family to avoid not being away over nights or he gives up the job.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/15/15 03:59 AM
Thanks to everyone who has offered good advice. I am going move forward with some suggestions this week and see how things play out.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/15/15 10:59 AM
Need, I am very worried about you and hope you're OK.

Please try to eat even if it's only nuts and bites here and there. Nap when you can and rest if you can't sleep.

There's no way this trauma hasn't deeply affected your health.

Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 01:25 AM
Thanks for the response. He is a consultant and the job is about 600 miles from home.

The hotel is his 2nd home. You might even say it is his 1st. I called him out in front of a group of friends last night because he sometimes slips up when he is actually home and calls his "work city" home. One of my daughters confirmed it in front of god and everyone. He of course, did not like being called out.

We had considered moving to his work city, but there were always reasons to stay in the city with family. I would have happily moved, but now I don't even want to visit. I would be afraid that I would loose it if I visited now knowing what I know.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 01:42 AM
Thanks for the concern indiegirl.

Sleep has been a hard commodity to come by for many years. I am ashamed to say that Ambien is a close friend.

I am hanging in there taking it one day at a time and putting a plan of action together to finally stop living in limbo.

Just messed up and did FindMyPhone on his cell and he got an email and asked me about it. I told him I wanted to be able to find him if I needed to and asked him not to turn it off. He is home for the next two weeks so I have to play it a little more careful than I would if he was at his "work home".

Again, many thanks. Sometimes it is hard to see thru the fog, but I have made it this far and know the fog will lift someday in the near future even if it seems SUPER thick right now. The sun will shine.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Thanks for the response. He is a consultant and the job is about 600 miles from home.

The hotel is his 2nd home. You might even say it is his 1st. I called him out in front of a group of friends last night because he sometimes slips up when he is actually home and calls his "work city" home. One of my daughters confirmed it in front of god and everyone. He of course, did not like being called out.

We had considered moving to his work city, but there were always reasons to stay in the city with family. I would have happily moved, but now I don't even want to visit. I would be afraid that I would loose it if I visited now knowing what I know.
You called him out on what?

Have you put spyware on his phone?
Posted By: wenang Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 01:42 PM
What is the point of putting Findmyphone on his phone? What can this accomplish when he is working in another city? I don't get it. There's better things you can do, but I think it's all nonsense because your gut is the best indicator. Your intuition knows there is something wrong and you are not crazy or paranoid. We all went through this stage....wanting desperately to believe our husbands explanations. Tell your husband you want the truth and ask him if he would take a lie detector test. If he comes out clean, maybe then you can decide if he can stay at his job and consider moving to that city. Explain to him you need to be sure before you can make the decision to move your family. Tell him you want to save your marriage and have a loving secure marriage. But, if he refuses to take the test (which I can bet on), you have your answer, which is that he is a cheater, liar, betrayer. Sorry but that's all there is to it. You need to take a stand for your sanity.
Posted By: happyheart Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 07:33 PM
Wenang,

the point was made that she whould quietly snoop zo gather evidence. Throwing in his face that she does not trust him is not helpful at this point and may lead him to be more stealth. Gathering the evidence to expose his behaviour if he is indeed having affairs with other women is important and would be more convincing than a polygraph to many people.
Posted By: happyheart Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 07:34 PM
Flexyspy may be a good option for the phone and eblaster is good for the computer.
Posted By: wenang Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 10:39 PM
happyheart: I get the point of trying to get the evidence, but if husband is at home (not away on business), the phone think won't catch anything. Secondly, if he goes to the other city for work, he is already staying at a hotel, so how would the phone be helpful?
Posted By: wenang Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/16/15 10:47 PM
Need: what have you done to check on him so far? his wallet? pockets, car, computer history (do you know how to do this?). No one is that good at hiding everything and you will see something amiss. Look for receipts being paid by cash. check the garbage cans. Or...hire a PI in the city he is working to tail him. You'll have all the evidence in a day or two.
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/17/15 07:55 PM
Thanks Happy!
Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/17/15 08:10 PM
You are right wenang! The whole gps tracking him at the hotel is pointless. I was just testing the FindMyPhone to see if he had it turned on or off. The hotel has always been an issue and since he is such good buddies with the hotel staff and guests I don't think they would be helpful in catching him. The PI is the way to go at this point. I just have to wait for him to go back to work and try not to act so suspicious in the meantime (which is really hard).

Another thought I had if he does not seem to be pursuing the jobs at home is to call his boss in the other city and tell her I need him to come home and why (expose). I think she would be very sympathetic. He has followed up with the 2 jobs here, but has to wait and see how it plays out. Not sure how long I should wait for those to play out before I force the issue. Jobs in our home town that require his skills are few and far between unfortunately. I don't want to move to his 2nd home city and I don't think he would be willing to move the family to another city where the job market would be better (totally selfish but that is the way it has always been). I would be more than willing to move. There are much better job markets for my profession other places as well.

For now I am just hanging in there and at least putting a plan together. All your comments and recommendations are very helpful and motivating. Thanks!
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/17/15 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Another thought I had if he does not seem to be pursuing the jobs at home is to call his boss in the other city and tell her I need him to come home and why (expose). I think she would be very sympathetic.


Have you read our exposure thread? I would stick very rigidly to the advice contained in there. You expose to a number of key figures in the workplace.

This is so that one person can't sweep it under the rug - it has to be dealt with.

I think your husbands workplace is a den of adultery which enables cheating. One person on her own might be too scared to take it further.

Probably most of the bossess know about it. You should still expose to them, but make sure you hit them in the hardest and most embarrassing way possible by targeting a few senior people.


Posted By: NeedToBeHeard Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/30/15 08:48 PM
Just wanted to post an update. Prayers really do get answered! My husband was offered and accepted a position here in our home town so no more traveling to the "other" city. It will be an adjustment for all, but I believe we have a much better chance of finding the lost love, trust and friendship that we lost so long ago.

Hopefully this is a new start for our marriage and family. Still lots to work on, but it feels as though we are turning the corner FINALLY!

Next hurdle is to deal with the FIL. Stayed tuned...
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Can't Move Forward - 03/31/15 10:32 AM
He needs to follow the entire checklist for surviving an affair and this program, which means no unenthusiastic decisions forced on you. If you say no contact with dad, thats that.

I'd be wary about his affair finally ending without verifying on spyware. An affair can survive very happily online.

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