My wife and i been married almost 4 years, we both been married before. we have 3 kids, things been rough for the last year. Long story short she wanted to get out of the house and then things got worse, and she asked for a sepration. Come to find out she been hanging out with guy from church. So i turned to the church for help and thy put a stop to the friendship.
I found the book "His Needs, Her Needs" the book just made me cry realizing i was not meeting her needs. Right know she just wants to call it quits and wants nothing to do with marrage couching or making are marrage happy and stronger.
I am just heart broken and not sure were to turn.
She beleves she and the kids will be better off in a separation because she will be happy again.

RC,

Your W was, and is in an affair, you cannot make your marriage work when your W is wayward. It was at least an emotional affair and likely a physical affair as well.

You have to have NO CONTACT with the OM and this means your family will have to completely disconnect from the church where this happened, and can no longer be on sports teams or go to school with OMs kids.

Understand that an affair is an addiction just like drug or alcoholism.

What do you know about this OM?

Gamma

OM? I am guessing the other guy.
Well not much but his dad and him are in Awana. The paster, elder and his dad confronted him and thy said no contact at all.

I am just not sure what to do, she is getting a job and making plans to move out.

I am just heart broken and i am worried about my kids even though one is my step daughter.

RC,

Has your W ever said to you "I love you but am not in love with you"?

The thing is, that from what you said the affair needle is almost pinned, the sudden change in character, the need to move out, the belief that she is unhappy.

Is the OM, other man, married? Does the OM have a history of cheating with women at his church?

Gamma

Hi Ron, welcome to Marriage Builders. Did your relationship with her begin as an affair? Has she ever had an affair before?

No she has not said that, it was a straight cut off no more i love you, if i say i love youi get the cold shoulder and i know. Its almost like she cringes I say I love you.
I almost can even get a hug out of her.
I know i dropped the ball after reading "his needs her needs" i just she would open up and see are marriage is worth saving. She clames 4 years of unhappiness, which i dont believe at all even though its been rocky after the birth of are son 9 months ago.
As for the OM i believe he is single lives his mom.
I keep woundering if i should reach out to his dad and talk to him about whats going on.

I know my wife was ticked that i talked to the church and had no right to dictate who her friends are.

No, we both were single when we meet and she dated a few guys before we got serious. I have a special place in my heart for fatherless children, so i would watch her daughter when she worked. And she played with my younger bothers.

Both of us came from broken familys her parents are devorced and she longer talks to them, well thy dont talk to her.
My bio dad abandoned me and my sister and mom. She remarried cant say he was much better, good provider but was abusive to some of us kids.

I never wanted my kids to feel the efects of divorce. I been crying out to God, but i still feel hopeless.

As for a affair before she has never told me.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

This is well and good but if she is unwilling to talk about and just wants a separation its of no use.

I am just trying to get through to she so we can get to a point od repair, so far she is unwilling to save this marrage. And thinks its in the best intrest of her and the kids to separate.

She and every other WW that has come along.

You don't have to try to save your marriage, but if you want to there is a plan here to follow. If you want to follow it, then we need to know what has been done on that checklist and what is left to do.

Have you read up on Plan A?

Have you exposed?

Read this: Exposure 101

Ron, the best way to make her willing is to kill her affair. I suspect the affair has just gone further underground and that is why she wants to separate. Exposure will kill her affair and give you a chance to save this.

_____Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

So far i have that part done, the paster, elders and the OM father has said no contact. I been checking all logs and no contact has been made.
I been wounder if i should talk to the OM father, not sure if it will help.

I have changed my work schedule so i can be home in the evening.

I am just not sure how do i go about the rest of the list, she will eather shut me out or have a angry outburst.

Whats plan A?

I know i dont have to save this marrage, but i love her and the kids to much to not go out with a fight.

Do i go as far as making sure the car does not run so she cant go anywere? She been a stay at home mom/homeschool. So far she went out and got a job so she can move out do i put a stop to that too?

Looks like have work to do tonight, exposing more of the affair

And what about her family, friends, children, etc? What do you mean you have checked "logs?" There are many, many ways to sneak around to meet with an OM.
Do you have spyware on her phone? Does she have a secret cell phone? Do you have GPS on her car?


What has he said about the affair to you?



No, you can't stop her from leaving and you shouldn't try.

Her mom i have no idea were she is at or how to get ahold of her, her dad does talk.
I have told the 10 year old the 3 and 9month i dont think will get whats going on.
I dont have access to her phone, but i can log into fb and google, so i have seen were she have gone, call and text logs from the cell co. The 10year old keeps me informed what happends in the house.

She has old me nothing of the affair. I have plans to talk to her tonight and see if she will open up.

Ron be strategic. Why would you talk to her? She knows very well what she is up to, as do you.

Talking to her will just take the affair further underground. A totally unexpected nuclear exposure is by far your best strategy.

Do not tip your hand.

Do i just sit tight? Or what is my next move?

I'm not sure where you are on exposure but I did want to pipe in about one thing.

You exposed her at church and they made OM break it off with her. That was a awesome smart move. However, your wayward wife now incorrectly thinks if she separates from you (and later divorces you) she can THEN resume the affair. My wife kind of did the same thing after OM dumped her. See...she THINKS the only reason they can't be together is because she's with you/married to you...so in order to get the affair back...she's got to separate.

I simply said "no".

Your wife is looking for work but she can't afford to move out on her own and hopefully her parents or relatives don't take her in leaving her "stuck" with you.

It's OK if she's just stuck. Your affair can over come her anger. It can't overcome and ongoing affair.

Right now she's just acting like a crack head who's only dealer disappeared. OM was her crack and she wants it back, but OM is done with her and hopefully he doesn't get wishy washy on her saying "I'll wait for you" or some other bull when trying to end it politely. Once she withdraws from daily contact and starts thinking a bit more clearly (2-4 weeks), she'll calm down and hopefully start to see the foolishness of her ways.

Watch for her also to start criticizing OM for being a wimp who is afraid of upsetting his family and church. She'll be offended that his "love" wasn't strong enough or deep enough for him to ignore them like she expected him to. She'll start realize that OM just used her and when the going got tough OM ran (whereas....when the going got tough for you, her husband, you didn't run, you fought for her). It's a distinction she'll realize in time.

Godspeed.

Thanks for your words.
It was crazy anout the time i started to wounder what was hoing on she was getting short with angry outbursts towards me and the kids, None of it made rational sense.

She made more of a deal out of it at church with her yelling,know its my fault the whole church knows whats going in her mind.

In a way i am luck i am really slow to anger or get under my skin, i thinks shes been looking for me to lose it so she can point the finger at me.

Lets see this sunday will be the 2nd sunday since to fireworks at church.

Right know i just want her to sit down and tell whats on her mind and feelings, good or bad.

As for any her parents taking her in, well her mom lives out of her car, her dad would have a fit with three kids in his place, and thats if thy even start talking again. So for now she is stuck.

RonClark,

One of the reasons I asked about OMs past is that it may help you break the spell OM has on your WW if you can find out that OM has done this to other women in the past.

Gamma

Ill call his dad up and see if he will chat with me

Well this early morning I ran across a not book with love letters to the OM and about there future plans of bring together, every funny read might I say since it all read every selfish.

I am calling the OM dad, should I start a fb campaign? Or anything else?

You should read the Exposure 101 thread and follow the instructions on the thread. Not sure what you mean by a Facebook campaign, but it is real important that you expose in a strategic, careful manner so you are not dismissed as a nut. I would take the notebook and make copies of it and keep them in a safe place.

I took copy of the pages last night, tonight I am going to copy all the text messages off her phone since I figured out the pin.

I want to make sure i understand this. On the part about using fb one make a page of my proof. Step two post whats going on on my page. Step three sent pm to all her friends?

I plan to talk to her dad but i only have his email, i am letting the paster know its affair not just innocent friendship like he said. And contact OM parents.

I have told my friends and parents.
Anything i am missing? I know i am pretty level headed but what i read has got me going inside.

It sounds like in two to three months time she wants a devorce And start a life his him, and the kids well she does not care if thy know that she bailed and might have resentment against her.

Ron, does the OM have a Facebook page? You should expose to his Facebook contacts via pm. You can also email or Facebook PM her friends and family. And I would definitely reach out to the OMs dad and your pastor.

How old are your kids? Any child 4 and above should be told.

I cant locate OM fb page or email.

I have 3 kids, step daughter is 10, daughter is 3 and son thats 9 months. The stepdaughter sees me as her father hers has made no contact with her

Read this Exposing to Children

Can anyone tell me why a church is against exposing a affair and snooping? i got some backlash from the leadership when i talked to the OM father.

can anyone tell me what might be going on in my wife's mind? this Sunday we watched a movie "plans,trains, and automobiles" towards the end of the movie got me really emotional she started to cry and then said i cant deal with this and ran out the door and drive off to the OM place.

That may be a good thing and may mean she is conflicted because in her mind you should be the bad guy and the other one the good guy. If she is having a good time with you, she will feel she is betraying the OM.

You should always ask her please not to go and tell her it is breaking your heart. Don't sob, but tell her in an earnest way.

Generally when people are against exposure they have their own skeletons. Churchgoing doesn't protect people from having affairs and covering them up. Exposure within the church does however.

As to her mind set it's basically a whirling vortex of chaos a lot like drunkenness.

That makes since, I am trying to show her things can be good here.

I talked to the senior pastor last night, he sure layer the guilt trip on me. At least it felt like that for spying on her.

I hate to question the church, but I know not everyone has the right answers.

I guess I'll go it along exposing what's going on.

It all comes down to experience dealing with the issue, I think. My church was behind me 100%. In fact, before I knew there was another person, one of the pastors point blank asked me, "Is there someone else?" I told him I didn't think so. When I found out there was, he said, "There always is."

It is a good question to ask your pastor, why the church would promote lying and the enabling or coverup of a sinful act and crime against you. Why they would ask a victim of a crime to remain silent and secretive about the crime committed against him.

It's bad publicity for churches when their members are engaged in such immoral activities. If they can keep the dirty laundry under wraps they're going to.

Personally I say expose to the entire world. The truth is never the wrong answer. The truth shall set you free.

You can also point them to Matthew 18:17 and Ephesians 5:11

I thank you guys for your help, this been really hard on me. Its sure great to have some support.
I gotten some help from the church, but i still feel its not been enought.

If only she would open up to me and see that change can happen. there is hardly i hour that passes by were i am not talking to God about this problem.

She can't do that - drunk brain remember!

The only thing that works is the affair ending.

Ron, this is normal. Almost everybody here who saved their marriage started with a spouse who did not believe that the marriage could be saved.

Her feelings will change after the affair dies and no contact is established, and after you have made enough love bank deposits to change her feelings toward you.

Be sure to expose this affair to everyone who counts, especially your children. Exposure speeds up whatever is going to happen.

Be sure also to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily. You need to learn everything you can about Marriage Builders in order to use its tools effectively and save your marriage.

Don't wait for your wife to decide change is possible. Start now.

Ahh, my wife just texted me and want to give permision to let her phone and tablet off my plan. I fell like i am in a losing battle.

Its hard to feel like everything i do is in vain. I have told my family, elders in the church, her family i cant get ahold of off, told the OM father, my friends, i am woundering if i should tell the head lady at a church food bank she is close too were she volunteers.

**EDIT**

Please read my message I posted on this page.

She has a relationship outside of are marrage. I dont have many friends and most are older and married.
As far as i can tell between her and the OM its been talking and holding each other. I dont thing its gone beyond that, but she has put it out there that he can take advantage of her.

I been trying to keep things a person to person talk, she been trying to do it all by texts and been deflecting with can we talk about together.

Ron, your pastor is naive about how to end an affair. Exposure was absolutely the way to go, and still is. Sometimes good people fall back on concepts of respecting their cheating spouse's privacy and they don't want to snoop. You did well finding your wife's notebook and following the advice here to make a copy of it.
You also did well with your exposure and if more targets pop up, should continue with exposure.
Nobody has mentioned this yet: Do not tell your wife about this website. It is your secret weapon.

Last night i talked to the head lady at the food bank she volunteers at and is pretty clost to my wife.
Today i finally heard back from my her dad, so i'll call him tonight.

When should i sit down with her and tell her what i know and when should i put on FB

Yep i made copies of everything i found, all the letters and text messages.

Right know i am trying to spend as much time with her and the kids, and make breakfast and coffee. And get the kids going. Since she working at night i try to make sure the apt is clean and picked up.

No i have not told her about this website or forum.

I cant believe it on her FB she posted with a reposted photo "lol...Oh how i miss you my love!!"

Getting more careless i guess

I have to thank you all, i been reading other people posts and listening the MB radio.
I was starting to feel depressed and running into walls, but know i feel encouraged seeing how others worse off than me have brought there marriages back together.
I pray Ill be one of those happy stories too, I cant help but get emotional right now.

night

See your doctor for anti depressants.

You don't have to discuss exposure at all.

Wow, i am going to be on MB Radio. Joyce Harley said thy will call on monday the 13. How long does it take before it airs?

Are anti depressants really necessary?

That afternoon.

Yes, ADs are a great tool to get you through this time.

You said you are depressed. ADs can help you be more resilient while you Plan A.

Yes, but depression is nothing thats sticks around long.
For me everyday is a new day and the negative feelings today dont really follow into the next day.

Praying and keeping God in the for front is what keeps my spirits up and and strength for the next day.

Its one day at a time.

You have not drug your feet the way many of the failed MBers did (I was guilty of not exposing). Some Betrayed's need 2 x 4s over the heads before they take that step. Good luck! Your kids will be so much better off because you are fighting for their family.

what do i need to do to get this OM from seeing my wife? she left this evening and it looks from tracking the phone she is on a walk with him. i have talked to his father and the OM keeps telling him nothings going on. I really need to break them up for good.
The Church has proven to be worthless on this matter.

Have you confronted OM?

Read this.
Don't Put up with the OM per Dr Harley

And this.
"I Encourage BHs to Confront OM" Dr Harley

Ok them, tomorrow I am paying a visit to the OM and tell him I care about my wife and to leave her alone. And I know about there affair.
this will be intresting, oh I am taking my brother as a witnesses just incase.

While you are speaking to him, keep in perspective that you are talking to a cockroach. Treat him like one.

Excellent!

Well my brother and I dropped by the OM place I talked to him and his mother. Thy both agreed no contact with the OM.
the OM did not say much. He keeped looking at the ground and fiddling with his fingers.
A intresting contact. I wondered if it will make a difference.

Good job.

Yes most OM's are weasels.

Not sure why, but I sure had a lot of adrenaline pumping which made me shaky.
I sure hope my visit made a difference.

when should I confront my wife with what I know and how can i get her off this divorce track from this point.

Has anyone, who you exposed to, put any pressure on her?

So far no one really, the ladies from the food bank will see her Tuesday and Thursday. She going to talk to her.
she does not have many close friends.

Well, tonight my wife said she need to talk a walk. She was on the phone for 36 mins with the OM and came backed pissed.
it looks the the OM did not take my advice to leave her alone.

It looks like she want to run right now, i guess its time for legal counsel

I talked to the OM mom and it really looks like showing up did help.
She was there when my wife called and even talked to her about it. And made it clear to her that thy would call me if she did show up.
She even told me the OM said if she can do this to her husband, i cant trust her not to do it to me.

Good news i hope

Thanks for letting me vent here.

You don't know what was in the conversation. He could have told her the whole thing is too much trouble and bother and that he wants out. She's angry that you are messing with fixes for her addiction. Drug addicts do that when enablers stop helping them stay addicted. She is an affair addict.

If she's going to run, do not allow her to take the children. The children stay in their home. With you. And you do not leave the home, no matter what.

In case nobody has mentioned this, keep a VAR (voice activated recorder) on you at all times. Don't let her make any false charges that you are violent or abusive. I think you're a darn smart cookie and a brave man.

I posted before reading this. Told you so! Nice work.

True, but this was coming from his mother. And his mother even talked to my wife before she hung up on the OM mother.

Well it seems she is getting depressed. I offer to help with things and I get I don't want your help.

I hope she will come around and not follow through with the divorce.

How can i find todays show? I want to save my call in.

Well it looks like the OM is still talking. Whats my next step?

The OM is feeling the heat from your exposure of the affair. You might be in for a long war to win your WW back. You've read about Plan A, right? Your exposure is an important part of Plan A.

The other important part is making yourself the attractive guy to your wife. Don't try to teach her about why her affair is wrong. She knows it's wrong. She doesn't care. Addicts just want their fix. They don't care what they do to family, how it affects their jobs, nothing.

You will be a broken record. "I love you and I'm standing for our marriage. Care for some iced tea?"
That sort of thing.

It's not over. Your Plan A is working! Good for your family.

Should I have an another talk with the OM? Or should I let it just sit for now?
I really don't a divorce fight.
I guess the good news I'd the text messages are only sweet one way.
he's just leaving short messages mostly with smiley faces.

Oh, Doctor Harley said to say I care for you instead of I love you.

About another visit to the OM, why not? It worked well last time, when your brother came with you. Can you control yourself and not be threatening or violent? Like the strong way you did last time?

You're making things unpleasant for them. OM's mother doesn't like what he's doing. Your wife and he may be texting, but things are not as exciting for them as before, when reality hit. They don't have the Love of the Ages, where things get better all the time. They have a dirty little affair, and exposure (like Melody Lane says) is like turning the light on in the kitchen and seeing the cockroaches scatter.

I forget, have you posted OM on cheaterville.com? That's a good tactic, causes more trouble in affair land.

Your wife will go back and forth between you and OM. As I the case with Sue in Surviving an Affair book, their affair will not die and recovery cannot start until it dies a natural death.

Cheaterville is temporarily down. You can post OM on www.playerblock.com

I have thought about posting on sites like that, what are the legal ramifications?
I don't want to jeopardize my kids when it comes down to a divorce.

Do you think he is losing intresting since he's no longer sending sweet messages back, it's been more how are you and emoticons.

It's not illegal to tell the truth. These sites additionally have their own lawyers who have successfully defeated a bunch of claims to the contrary. As the publisher they take the brunt of the legal responsibility. You have some too.

It doesn't have anything to do with your kids. It's a defamation consideration and if you have proof and are telling the truth it's not libel.

Recovery cannot begin until no contact is established.
Boyfriends and their married girlfriends sometimes have problems and then get back together.

Tonight was intresting, she took the neighbors car to visit the OM.

Amazing what lengths she will go to see him

Playerblock is easy to get taken down for $100 bucks. Post on cheaterreport.com or shesahomewrecker ( you can post men as well). They are very difficult to get taken down.

she's a homewrecker.com

You know i dont quite understand how my wife can just dump the kids on my and run away to the OM.

And i am really conserned with my wife angery out bursts with our 10 year old daughter, and and threatening to slap her around if she will not listen and being more respectful.
The 10 year old is getting tired of the way her mother treats her and feeling neglected and mommy does not care how she feels.

I been trying to get our daughter to talk to me about it, so far most of the time i get i am ok, its the mommy is and ill deal with it.
It really pains me to see this happen.

My ex wife did the same thing to my daughter during her affair.

Do the neighbors know she is visiting her boyfriend?

I doubt it, she's still keeping a secret and not really even admitting to me that's not affair.

I feel so bad for her, she my be my step daughter. But in my mind I love as my own and it really hurts. She does not treat the 3 year old or 10 month old that way. It'seems as if she flips a switch between her and her other kids.

What you do dealing with this?

Radio Clips of RonClark's Shows
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Thanks for the links.

You're welcome.

Ron Clark, Tell the neighbors whose car she is borrowing. That's part of Plan A. Use your leverage.

The 10 year old is more aware of things than the 3 year old and the 10 month old. Your wife doesn't want to be judged. Even if the little girl isn't confronting her about the affair, your wife is afraid of what her daughter is thinking about her. She sees a look on the child's face, and even if it's not about her and her affair, she jumps to conclude that the child doesn't like her actions.

Your stepdaughter could be wondering where her Barbie dolls are, or she could be thinking about getting an extra hour of TV time that night, and your wife could interpret her expression as "Wonder if Mommy is kissing her boyfriend today?"

Does your stepdaughter know anything at all about this whole mess? (I forgot if you've told her, or if the child has overheard any discussions between you and your wife.)

Oh the 10year knows, she even seen them share a drink together.
When her mom was asking the 10 year old how she liked the OM and parents, she came to me and said mommy asked me some strange questions. And I expanded why she was asking her those questions.

Well my wife got the self help divorce paper work today. It's intresting she going to file in another county to avoid parenting classes. And looking over the paper work it looks like she was full custody of the kids and the tax credit. I keep my money and depth and she keeps her money and depth.

I am am pretty sure going to the next county can't be done, since we are both in the same county.

Shes got a intresting thought process.

Oh, the texts are getting more sexual in nature between her and the OM.

Are you going to pay another visit to the POSOM?

LTL

I was thinking about it, will it do any good. He's liking to everyone nothing is going on, but in text messages thy are expressing there love, and she writes back how she wants to make love to him.

It seems to me unless reality hits it's nothing will happen

It may take awhile but if you keep up with Plan A, and if you are patient, you can kill the affair.
Did you tell the neighbors that your wife was using their borrowed car to visit the POSOM? [Piece of Sh.. Other Man]

My 10 year old daughter told me yesterday that her mom talked to her, saying she had divorce her dad because she married the wrong person, and the OM is just a friend.

In her messages to the OM she is trying to get his ring size. And know there spending hours on the phone over weekend.

Funny thing she said was to him "I wish I was with you, I want to know what it feels like to be with a real man....:-*"

She must be deep in the fog........

At this point, I think you should email Dr. Harley for guidance.
The purpose of Plan A is to win your wife back and Dr. Harley encourages men to plan A for 6 months to 2 years while they wait for the wife to end her affair.
However, since she is actually filling out divorce legal paperwork I think you should contact an attorney and file for divorce and custody.
You need to be extremely careful and ensure that any assets are protected.
So I suggest you email Dr. Harley something like this:

Dear Dr. Harley,

My wife and I have ___ children and have been married for ___ years. I have been able to determine that she has been carying on an affair for ___ months. I have exposed the affair and confronted the OM, who lives with his mother.

At this time, my wife refuses to end the affair and recently received a Do-It-Yourself Divorce Kit in the mail and states she intends to file for divorce.

What do you recommend? Should I contact an attorney and file for divorce first? Or should I just focus on continuing in Plan A?

I been in contact with a lawyer and told him what I am trying to repair the marriage. I guess luck for me she is filing in the wrong county, so we are using that to by time and have it thrown out. Then she has to start over in the right county. He said I'll be ok when she refills in the right county.

I made a intresting discover tonight going though her filing cabinet looking for some stuff.
I did not know I am her 3rd marriage. The first one lasted just over a year, the second marrage that I know about lasted about 3 and know mine at just shy of 4 years.

Good thing I was sitting, I would have fallen over when I saw that.

Well more news, last night my wife got home at 5 am, work is over at 2 am or so.
bassed on what the texts messages last night things got physical between them.

More sad, sad news.

It's only by the grace of God I am still not flying off the handle over all of this.

I am still holding out hope and God's help there is still a chance to repair the marrage.

Boy did a get a earfull this afternoon, my wife was yelling at me for telling the kids about the divorce and she wanted to stop. She will still not admit to the affair and the 10 year is fully aware to that is going on.

I don't know whether you told the neighbors who lent your wife the car about her affair with the POSOM. Remember, Plan A. Exposure. It's like Raid on bugs
I guess you might need to find an attorney and file first to protect yourself and the children.
I don't know whether you could file for custody of the 10 year old. I hope so. You are the safest parent for her, though not her bio-dad.

Well the 10year old told her before I could.
Thy are talking about a longterm relationship now and how there felling are getting stronger, so far what I have done seems to have no effect. Other than she keeps complaining to him that I am making it hard on her.
at what point will things turn and what else should I do?

I have email Doctor Harley and it's been a few days and no reply.

What I would not give to have my wife in my arms again. I just will not give up, I can't give up, even though it hurts so bad.

If you don't hear back from them soon, Notify the MODS and they can relay the message to him.

So they are talking about the future. Doesn't mean there will be a happily ever after for them.

Reality will hit. Stay strong. You are in Plan A. If your wife moves out, there is always Plan B. [Read up on it when you have time.] Plan A includes exposure - you have followed that. Plan B will include a love letter to your wife. You should read up on sample Plan B letters and draft one to post here. After you fix the love letter and road map back to the marriage with the help of the veterans here, you cut off all contact with your wife. But, Plan B is for later, in case your wife moves out to be with the POSOM.

Continue making yourself the attractive alternative for when Stupid POSOM starts screwing up. Which he will.

POSOM may already be wondering what the heck he is doing with a married woman with a lot of baggage and a persistent husband/father of three. He could be thinking "How do I let this woman down easy and go on with my life?"

I don't think he's there yet, he has invited to a event. But she has to show up like she was going there herself and happen to run I to him.
Oh I guess he got him self a job too.

I guess I feel helpless, since what I have done on the serface has does not semester to stop them.

Have you emailed the Harleys?

Don't give in to feeling hopeless. You don't know how your actions are affecting the happy couple. It can take time for the exposure and your Plan A to do its work.

He doesn't love your kids they way you do. They will become an irritant in time. They won't seem so adorable and cute to him when they tantrum, make incessant demands, insist on getting up early and making noise, all the things our kids do in life. They cost money too. Money that could be better spent on self-indulgence. Kids are a lot of work. Parents sacrifice willingly. Strangers (Other Men, Other Women) - not so willingly.

I have sent a email in to follow up from the radio show. I have not heard anything yet.

True, it would be nice to see things move faster in the right direction.

You know I been asked from the pastor at church what I would like see them do since I feel like thy not been doing much. Right off hand I could not think of more than keep the OM accountable.
Any other ideas? I get the feeling thy don't like me talking.

I am trying my best to hang in there, know my wife desided she is going to sleep on the couch. So it's abit more lonely at night.

Please clarify. "They" don't like you talking. Does this mean your wife and the POSOM don't like you talking?

If so, talking about their affair?

Or is there someone else who doesn't like your talking? The pastor, or neighbors, ???

Oh sorry, late nights and using my phone does not always work well posting to a forum.

I get the feeking the pastor's don't like me going around and talking about, but then I also said it feels like thy have not been doing much to help me out.

Tell th pastor to read First Corinthians for his answer on what the church should do to someone living in sin.

OK Thanks. The pastor doesn't know about MarriageBuilders and Plan A and the benefits of Exposure to killing the affair. Are you asking the people in your church who you are talking to for their help to persuade your wife to end her affair? If you aren't doing that specifically, add that to your talks with those you talk to. "Can you please help me persuade my wife to end her affair with OM and let me work on our marriage?"

Some waywards try to introduce their affair partner to people in their lives after the breakup as New People. If you have exposed far and wide, your wife won't be able to do that.

Oh, and had you meant that your wife and the POSOM didn't like you talking about their affair, that would be wonderful! They are supposed to hate exposure. I hope they do hate it! Their breakup is the best thing for your marriage AND your kids.

I am not sure about POSOM, but my wife sure hates i keep exposing the affair.

Even know she is so far in the fog she believes its Gods will thy be together that anything that gets in the way makes her mad and not really slow her down.

I keep woundering how far she will go, i almost feel its going to be crash a burn.

I am worry about the kids, since she does not seem to want the responsibly of the kids. She keeps finding ways to escape.

2000 years ago, the Church of Corinth was unfamiliar with Dr. Harley and Marriage Builders also. They did not have access to the internet due to poor infrastructure.

Fortunately, they did have Paul the Apostle and when he learned that a member of the Church was engaging in sexual sins with his mother in law, he wrote and demanded they throw the man out of the Church.
In this case, if the Pastor of the Church doesn't know what to do or needs to read a website for advice on how to treat a member that is engaging in adultery i see little benefit of continued exposure to the Pastor.
This is basic Church Rules and the Bible and even today in remote areas of Africa where they have not heard of Dr. Harley churches can read the bible and know what sin is and how to deal with it.
i would assume this OM is a member of a liberal Church. Exposure usually isn't very effective with them.

What do you mean keep exposing the affair? Exposure is usually done in 24 hours and not mentioned again.

She will keep bringing it up, but don't engage with her.

Ron, that's what I wanted to know. Your wife doesn't like it. That means exposure was effective. Waywards want to sail through their affairs without anyone looking crosseyed at them. Some of them, like your wife, even try to bring G-d into it. They try to make something evil and destructive into a holy predestined thing approved of by G-d. You're doing just fine!

Interesting information about St. Paul. NT isn't my area of interest. Good to bring to your pastor, Ron Clark!

Sorry poor choice of words, i should have said it makes her mad that everywere she goes someone know about her filling for divorce and the affair.

This might be good news, the pasters,his step mom,and his dad had a meeting and had a long talk with the OM. The pastor so far keeping him accountable and there has been no contact between the OM and my wife as far as i can tell.
When talking to the pastor i asked if he would talk to the OM about writing a letter to state he has no intrested now or in the future in my wife. That the pastor and i approve of.
Not sure if it will help, but its worth a shot i figured bassed on what Doc, Harley said about a wayward spouse.

Right know my wife wants little to do with me and is still heading for divorce.
I am hoping she will come around, i keep praying all day.

I loved Jedi Knight explanation of first of the church of Corinth. I got a much needed laught, but point well taken.

Oh, i have not seen my book from Doc, Harley yet. How long does it normal take to receive it?

Her being mad about being exposed is normal, the social awkwardness that bothers her is precisely the intended result of exposure. It's accountability for her actions that she hadn't been dealing with before and it will help persuade her to stop in ways that you can't right now because she is withdrawn from you.

VERY good that the church is stepping up and getting involved with applying pressure to the affair.

Keep up Plan A, this is the toughest part of this process. Now that you've exposed you've got to work on creating a contrast between life with you and life with OM, and you've already made life with OM much less attractive than it was before exposure.

Now you need to make sure life with you looks really good. Divorce paperwork is not the same as a finalized divorce, and while I know it must be very discouraging, it's just the beginning of a process that is not at all a quick one. You still have time here.

I think the hardest thing right now, is her seething anger toward me. And always talking ro me and the 10year old in anger

What can I do to make life with me look really good?
Listening to Doc Harley today it seems it's almost impossible to make love bank deposits when a woman is not emotional connected to the man.

It's hard to not feel like it's a impossible up hill climb.

Good question, Ron Clark.
Begin by taking care of yourself. If you have been casual about grooming, step it up! Always look and smell good. If you've acted like a Sad Sack, act confident and cheerful. Like your life is really good. Droopy people are not as interesting or attractive as confident, happy positive people. Continue being an excellent Dad to your children.

Schedule trips to the park with all the kids and strengthen your bonds with them. Oh, and Document. Start a hand-written journal. Write down all the time you have the children. Write down all her visits with the children. If they disclose things about the visits, the OM, and whether your wife has farmed them out to other people while she has them, be sure to include all of that in the journal. [Which you will keep carefully tucked away where the kids aren't likely to pull it out and play with it. Kids are buggers about finding our hidden stashes of adult goodies.]

If your wife doesn't come out of the fog, you will have ammo for a custody battle. You are the better parent, and your number one job is to protect the children.

AND DO NOT FLIRT OR DATE. YOU ARE STILL MARRIED. You are the total package. Your fidelity and excellent parenting are very very attractive to a lot of women. Even if you think the marriage is kaput, don't even think about it! An affair or opposite sex friendship will be bad for your children.

I been trying to do extra stuff around the house,offering to get her stuff, which see seems to hate. my co-working invited me to the gym so i am going to take him up on that offer.

I have started a journal with stuff she doing, that a good idea to put in what i am doing with the kids.

I dont even know how to flirt so that is out, from time to time i start to think should i just give up and move on, but i cant all i want is my wife and no one else. no one else even compares in my option. so i am not going up.

So over the weekend i get out of her she is no longer in love, and wanted to me sign the divorce papers to make her happy and cried on the bed for a few hours, i tried to comfort her but she just pulls away.
Oh yeah she had not interest in seeing a counselor until the divorce is don't and then we can work on are friendship and the kids.
I have not idea here her head is at.

interesting to what lengths she will go to get something, she is trying to buy a car. since none of the utility bills are in her name she decided to falsifying one to give to the dealer.
she even go as far as to ask me to co-sign at are Credit union, i need to do this again to make her and the bank happy. The car is 12 years old and the credit union only loans on 10 and newer so i have not idea what thy send to them.
so,my wife tells me since thy could have know better than to sell her a car she cant get a loan on, and she cant get a co-signer she no going to bother to bring the car back thy can come get if thy want it.
I guess there goes her $1000 down payment and what ever else thy want to charge her.

Oh yeah, she been asking everyone to co-sign, even a few neighbors.

what is she thinking or where is she at? one of my friends asked if she was on drugs.

I dont even know how she would make it on her own, her job does not pay enough for rent, car, and child care

Oh my wife did that once.
went to a dealership and they let her drive it home and said, Have your husband sign the papers tomorrow.
I drove it back to them the next day and bad mouth the dealership every chance i get now.

Ron Clark, your wife is on a drug. It's "POSOM and extra-marital affair." She craves it like heroin. The pure and holy marriage and family sickens her and it will disgust her until she withdraws from the affair. Funny she asked YOU to co-sign with her to buy the car. Why did she not ask POSOM to co-sign with her? After all, they have a future together. G-d wants them to be together.

Co-signing for a car to help her in any way was not a good Emotional Need to meet. So you were right to refuse. She is temporarily crazy. She sat on the bed and cried? Good. And you were there for her? Good. She will remember that when POSOM shows his true colors.

The affair is crumbling. Stay the course. She cannot love you right now because POSOM is meeting some of her Emotional Needs. You are showing courage. Glad you are taking care of yourself. Oh, and by the way, flirty men are not sexy. Real men (you) are sexy!! Go John Wayne!

Thanks for the encouraging words.

What you say about her hating family makes since because she likes dumping the kids on me and running away, treats the oldest pretty bad. I could not figure it out what did the kids do to her to deserve this kinds of treatment.

Oh the reasen the POSOM. cant sign is he has not had a job in 12 years from what i can fine out. he lost his drivers license dp to a DUI and a Class A misdemeanor.

when she was there crying about the car and wanting me to sign divorce papers, i tryed to hold her hand and she pulled away like i was attacking her.

I am glad to hear things are starting to crumble, its a matter of waiting i guess.

I guess she is feeling alot of guilt or something, because snooping has revealed she wants to attend another church.

I am in the fight for the long hall, i guess all i can do is hunker down, wait and try to be a shinning light.

Dealership is not the right work for this place. There are scum and pray on desperate buyers and selling cars that have no business being on the road. A buy here pay here scum of a car dealer charging 29.99% interest, like i said scum low lifes.

I think you said you exposed the affair to the church? Is there some reason the pastor has not called them out in the middle of Sunday service?

Does everyone in the church know?

Churches rarely do that now.
My pastor told me that the insurer tells them not to.
They often will address it but quietly and in house.

No there not going to do that, I would love it if thy did and I think thy should.

The people at church that knows are the pastor's, elders, his parents, and a guy that came over and prayed for me cus he saw I was troubled.

A very important Christian author, C.S. Lewis, wrote a short book entitled The Screwtape Letters. Screwtape was a devil in training, answered to Satan but I don't think Lewis used the name of Satan. Screwtape was charged with corrupting a young man away from Christianity to Sin.

The corruption started small. The Boss (Satan) told Screwtape to help the young man along by helping him to think it wasn't important to say unpleasant things about biblical values, and to hang around with people who enjoyed poking fun at Christian virtues and values.

It started small with your wife too. She probably told herself it didn't matter if she had an innocent, platonic friendship with the POSOM. She had a right to her freedom. She believed that she wasn't taking anything away from her family and her husband. She let herself believe that the soul is a fairy tale.

Screwtape talked about how the young man was tempted away from his modern, sophisticated friends by a good young Christian girl. Screwtape mentioned how the odor of holiness stunk up everyone in the household, even to the gardener and the maids. Screwtape was disgusted.

The young man became more Christian all the time and dropped his atheistic worldly friends.

The reverse can happen to people too.

Stay strong.

Of course she wants to find another church. She can go there and pretend she isn't cheating on her husband and destroying her family. See how effective exposure is for your Plan A?

If you hadn't exposed at church, she could go on pretending and could even paint you as some kind of awful husband. Garner sympathy and support for the new lover. Ugh.

I thank God for leading me to marrage builder's without Doc Harley and you guys I would be really lost.

As I am watching things unfold, it seems she still steaming ahead, I keep wondering when it going to all fall apart.
I am guessing it's a slow process, just like how the affair started.
You know i seeing small bits that erode at the fantasy just make her frustrated and see tries harder.

It's not easy to watch, but I guess I have too.

Are you keeping a audio recorder on you?
If not do so.
Sometimes a cheating woman will accuse the husband of assault etc and get the guy kicked out of the house and the boyfriend moved in.

Yes i am keeping a voice recorder.

i rent and she is not on the lease, so the problem is if she gets me removed then there is not longer a legal tenant. She would get evicted then.

Looks like my wife is visiting the POSOM she came home at 4am. I am guessing the POSOM does not care what the pastor and parents or anyone ones option.

Know my wife is telling me i am undermining her parenting by telling the kids about the divorce and she is still mad that thy seen her farther and has forbidden me to let the kids see him. She is sure acting like she is in charge and do as i say.

Oh and the older daughter throw a huge fit at her mother, i guess hit,bit and kicked, telling her she wished was not her mother today, so she called me to take care of of the older daughter. As i see it its her fault for being anger allthe toward her daughter. I keep talking to my daughter about respecting her mother and she like why should i she not nice and destoring the family, so ill do what i can to make her life miserable.

Regarding the older daughter, i encourage you to have her see a Christian counselor or maybe speak to an older lady in your church.
kicking and biting is completely out of control behavior and should not be tolerated.

Well she got alot of anger towards her mom the way she been treating and talks to her.
In away I understand, but I don't approve of.
Her reasoning if mom treats me like garbage I'll treat her like that too.

She mad mom breaking up her family and wants to take her from the only father she knows.right know my daughter and I have a great relationship and she feels I really care for her were as she feels her mom does not.

Oh wait.
i forgot this is your step daughter.
in that case, just try to be a friend to her.

I have desided because I have no idea what my wife might do, I feel I need to make a move before I am painted in a corner or halled off on some charge. I am going to file for separation. But I am afraid what she might be capable of.

And all this anger is not healthy for the kids.

I really hate too but maybe a cool down and time might help. She seem determined to go down this path that nothing going to stop her.
I pray I am making the right decision. Life choice are so hard.

I think Dr Harley would support this because it may offer you legal protections against debts she incurs etc while carrying on her affair.
However, many waywards use a separation as an excuse to cheat. Since she is already actively out at all hours of the night with her lover, I dont think a legal separation will reinforce her thinking though. She seems determined to carry on this affair despite public humiliation.
In Plan A, You would continue to try to meet her emotional needs. In the case of a legal separation, you may be unable to do so. In that case, you may play yourself into a Plan B.
I suggest you send an email to Dr. Harley for guidance. Sample language would be as follows:

Dear Dr. Harley,

I have been married to my wife for 4 years. We have a blended family and both have kids brought into the marriage.
I found your forum a couple months ago after reading His Needs Her Needs. My wife has been having an affair with a man for (XXX time). I have exposed the affair to family, friends and clergy and confronted him in front of his mother (whom he lives with).
My wife carries on her affair in the open now and often stays out all night, coming home at early hours in the morning.
I have decided to contact a lawyer and request some type of legal separation to protect myself. I am concerned she could make false allegations against me or incur debt. A few days ago, she drove a car home from a used car dealer and asked me to sign loan documents for it.
Would you recommend trying to continue plan A during a legal separation or plan B?

Sincerely,

-------

Also, do not speak about legal separation to anyone until you see an attorney

Consider this previous post concerning separation.

So far everything I have done just seems to make her mad and she just presses harder to spend time with POSOM.
And even is so bold to take to him at church.
It really hurts to see the effects on the family as a whole.

I still have no idea what she going to do she can't afford a apartment. Let along all the other costs of living. That's I am afraid of what she might pull, since lieing is ok, and any morality seems to be gone.

The anger at you isn't a bad thing. You're in her way of the dope peddler (POSOM). Some time back there were posts on this website about being the Lighthouse. Being steady and willing to show the wayward the way back to your marriage.

The anger was starting back when you exposed her affair. That flame is still burning. Hold fast, and pray. It would be much worse if your wife had no reaction at all to the exposure. It is killing their affair.

By the way, C.S. Lewis wrote a series of children's books that you can borrow from the library. It was titled The Narnia Chronicles. The first book in the series was The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. (Some of the stories were made into feature length films.) Take your 10 year old to the library and take out that book for her. It's a lovely story. And even younger children than your 10 year old enjoy them.

I still have a complete set, and I still read them, they are wonderful! And a good introduction to a Christian philosopher. Nothing about cheating mothers and POSOMs. Just a wholesome escape for everyone. And another brick in the safe, secure household from an ugly world out there.

I talked with the lawyer again today and he said just wait and when things get or look bad with her anger, go for a drive and be away for a while.
If things go down to finalizing a divorce, he's got a plan and it's going to be messy and he said we can go after the POSOM. The lawyer is guessing the POSOM is going to hate what's comming. So lots more pressure on her and the POSOM.
And we have a plan in place for my step daughter too he things I have a good case to include her.

Know the scarry part, is cost might be up in the range of 10k. Looks like he is going to work with me and give me sideline stuff to do to help keep the cost down. I pray that God will provide the means to for me to keep fighting.

I know about the Narnia series of books, but nothing of his other stuff. I know the kids watched the new versions of the movies, I'll have to get the book version to read to them. Thy love there stories before bed.

The Chronicles of Narnia are pretty intense.
They involve battles and death.
I love the series very much but it is not feel good, lovely stuff.
It is kind of scary all the way through.

The Last Battle is tough and upsetting.

Kids love the battles, and the really young ones don't get what death really is. Video games have characters dying all the time, and coming back to fight again. I've read Lewis to my little cousins, as well as Philip Pullman's trilogy. They were glued to my side begging me to read just one more chapter. My son loved them too.

Remember the Grimm's Fairy Tales, the original ones? They were also intense and full of disturbing themes. Kids feed their imaginations with them, and add them to their made-up games. They conquer the witches, kill the trolls, and build forts out of cushions to defend against the giants.

I was a pretty long in the tooth adult before learning that Lewis was a Christian writer. He was amazing. His adult works are worth the read for anybody.

Another good series my kids love is the Oz books by Baum

I keep wondering to myself if my wife will come back, she seems so far away and wanting nothing but this POSOM.

Yesterday we went to the county fair together as a family and she just was not there and the older daughter was getting upset at the end because she felt that mommy was talking all the fun out of the experience i felt that way too. it was just the vibes she was giving off i guess.

I gave her flowers and a card Thursday day for are 4 year anniversary. I got those are nice flowers and nothing about the card. its really hard not to feel like all this is for not and she will end up hating me after she finds out i have a lawyer involved to defend me and the kids including the step daughter.
he thinks i have a great case in winning rights to her.

Visitation rights maybe but you will not have custodial rights to a child you aren't related to

In the state of Washington there is common law relating to pseudo facto Parenthood, which means I can make a case in the courts and if I win it's one stop short of a adoption for my step daughter. In the eyes of the court of Washington if I win will me I'll have all the rights and responsibilities of a father to her.

reading, The Last Battle has layers to it. I never read it when I was a kid. I found a website about C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles. I had always thought it was an allegory about Christ and Satan. I was wrong. He wrote them as a simple fairy tale. But a Christian could interpret them as allegory about Christ if they wanted to.

The ape forcing Puzzle the donkey to dress up in a dead lion's skin could be seen as faking the return of Christ. Aslan had not been present for ages, and many people didn't believe in him any more. The Ape used the simple donkey to manipulate the Narnians to do his bidding.

Another aspect of the books is that the child heroes make mistakes, sometimes very bad ones, and they manage to redeem themselves. I think there are good lessons for children that you can repent from your bad deeds, that you can become a better person, but that you have to face your mistakes and own up to them.
Sorry to thread jack. I've worn those pages thin with re-reading.

Ron Clark, she is fogged in with her affair. You did good remembering your 4 year anniversary. It's Plan A. If the fog lifts, she will remember your kind romantic gestures. She is very hard to reach right now.

Your oldest [step]daughter is learning lessons from you now. If G-d forbid she faces a cheating husband, she has a playbook to follow. And closer to the present, she is learning that you are the parent committed to saving her family, and she's learning how much you really love her mother.

think about tossing stones into a brook. If you toss enough stones, you can eventually have a raised pathway and finally you might have a bridge. Only a loving spouse has the courage to hold on and persist, like you are doing.

A POSOM will cut and run when things become hard.

Good man. I hope you succeed with custody of your daughter.

Thanks, none of this is easy for me or on the kids.

I really pray all this will end well.

On Saturday me and my wife went out to a brewfest and had dinner afterwards. For a few hours she had lots of fun I could see on her face. To bad she went to see the POSOM afterwards. Even the next day she said she had lots of fun and wants to do it again.

On thing I can't figure out is she keeps taking like we are married, even thought she had me served with divorce papers.

She is cake-eating and probably had this fantasy in her head wher you and she and OM will be one happy patchwork family and the best of friends. There is nothing wrong with telling her it is killing you inside when she goes to see posom. Not in a pathetic needy way, but so that she understands how your heart is bleeding.

Dr Harley says that women tend to love only one man at a time, so they "want" the best man to win their hearts, while men enjoy the attention of both women, and would sometimes try to keep the limbo going to be able to have to women meet their needs longer.

What else can I do to push the POSOM away? It looks like the POSOM stopped going to church I did not see him today and the pastor hinted that he might be coming.
My wife is still seeing him and is like no other man has me so wound up and I never want to leave your arm's at least in her texts. Thy seem to be talking more than texting.
I have the POSOM posted on the two cheating sites. I just can't seem to get the right pressure on him.

Am I going to have to sit tight till the GL starts checking him out and doing backgrounds checks on him?

I guess I would like to see things move faster in the right direction.

You are doing all the right things. Actually your prospects are good. You have 2 children together and POSOM does not sound like the responsible father type who will want to take on 3 children.
Make yourself as attractive as possible and an enjoyable person to be with for your wife.

I do not remember if you confronted the OM? Dr. Harley reccommends that you let him know that you will always be there for your wife and he has nothing to win in the long run. You can confront him, if you take a witness and if you can constrain yourself. POSOM probably wants something easy on the side and it is not romantic if your "girlfriends" husband confronts you to tell you that you are breaking up a family. It may also impress his mom who lives with him.

There are no guarantees though, because everyone is different and it can take some time for the affair to enter the quarreling phase (but it will).

She probably wants to be your friend after divorce.
My wife would do the Same things

He did confront him at mommys house, where he lives.

Why would you go to the church if he was going?
I dont think this church is doing what they are supposed to be doing and you should consider finding a church that does not encourage unrepentant sins

Well I have found support and there praying for me and my family.
Thy might been slow to react, but talking with the pastor this last Sunday. Thy believe in the sanctity of marriage and thy told the POSOM that the consequences of continuing with the affair would be he would not longer be welcome to come to church to fellowship (church the pastor said is not a social club) and he will no longer be able to providing security or any other services for the church.

It sounds like the pastor put his foot down on what is right.

In fact I did not see the POSOM at church this Sunday.

A condition of recovery is that you would never see this man again so if the church doesnt ban him there is no point in attending.

Anyway, it is positive that he will suffer negative consequences.

Now my concerned that my WW is getting comfortable were she is at. She is talking to him on the phone in my living room at night.
Which is making my daughter upset, well anything to do with the POSOM makes her upset now.

Talking gets no were, am I going to have to sit tight till the court ball gets rolling to get her uncomfortable again?

If she is carrying out the affair under your roof, that is where I would draw the line. I would calmly let her now that she is not allowed to carry out her affair under your roof. That is not a DJ.

You can disconnect the phones. You don't have to provide any means to her which help her contact POSOM.
Who is making the money in your houshold?

Well its her cell phone, that's in her name now. She works now but does not help with household expenses. She also wants to use my money like it's hers. The lawyer says since she filed for divorce it's no longer her money to take.

No. Dr. Harley has made it clear that a betrayed spouse cannot make demands, even a demand to end an affair. In Plan A he can tell her he is devastated when she leaves to be with OM, and try to meet her emotional needs. He should not offend her in any way.

However, he should not make any demands.

If he can't handle plan A and it becomes too stressful he should enter Plan B

Ron,

She may be trying to get you mad so you will leave the house and she can move OM in.
I don't know what to suggest to you in line with Plan A.
We aren't allowed to encourage divorce in the forum but I can tell you that my wife was texting and carrying on her affair in public. I'm divorced now and very happy.

I think you should enter Plan B. But understand that the prospect of winning her back is slim after entering Plan B.

Ron,
I would **EDIT**. A home needs to be place where the family is safe and not abused by another's actions. Dr. Harley says that infidelity is an awful abuse on another human being.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

My lawyer is telling me when she refiles the divorce he wants to have a court order that she needshould to move. I am not a 100% sure thatshe the right thing to do.
Really my goal is to have my wife back there is nothing I want more than to hold her right know.
I am learning how to deal with the extra stress and her anger when it shows its head. It's by no means easy, but I am holding on to hope it will pay off.
I can't see any way the POSOM is going to be there for her, besides being a ear. With no job and he stays at him mom's apt. She going to need financial support along with Support for the kids, I just can't see him stepping up to the plate and offering that.

Justthe3ofus,

You are correct that an affair is an awful abuse.
However, you are incorrect in advising that the poster make demands of his wife to end an affair.
Dr. Harley encourages betrayed spouses to tell their cheating spouse how hurt they are and ask them to end their affair. But he is against all demands.
Pasted below is a comment Dr. Harley posted last year. I have bolded the relevant part:

If you decide to pursue divorce I encourage you to seek full custody of your children.
Regarding a court order for her to leave the home, Dr. Harley typically advises a husband against forcing a cheating wife to leave the home while in Plan A.
You may want to email him for specific guidance since you are in the legal system. He may defer to your attorney if it helps you gain custody.

Ron, do you live in a no-fault divorce state? Or are you in one of the states that still allows Alienation of Affection lawsuits to be filed against affair partners?

I live in a no fault divorce state.

I have a question i a struggling with, now that she filed and had me served with divorce papers.

What needs do i meet and were do i draw the line?
Like do to i have her move? If she spends all her work money and then wants money? Right now she is not helping wih any expences but child care.
So my real question is how much should i be willing to help, do i fix her car or if breaks do i loan her my car and stuff like that?
I am more than willing to help were i can, but i dont want to enable her eather.

I feel i am a catch 22 here, and just not sure which is the right way.

I did not say that Ron should demand she end the affair. I said he **EDIT**

Ron, I was in your shoes a long time ago. I **EDIT**, and I was supported on this site for that decision. I never forced her into any decisions. My marriage is now recovered thanks to Marriage Builders and the God's grace. My wife respects me for standing up for our marriage and not enabling the affair.

Ron, in answer to whether to do favors for your wife once she has served you with divorce papers, (but is still in the house), I'm not sure what the right thing is. I've been away from the Boards for years, only popping in from time to time. Maybe a fresh post, with the heading "PLAN A question for a BH served divorce papers" - would catch the eye of people on the boards who are experienced and are better equipped to advise you?

I don't want to suggest anything that could make it easier for her to continue her abuse. At the same time, while you're still under the same roof, it could be useful to do things that will make her remember you with fondness once the idiot she's dating starts to foul up.

It depends on if you still want to make the marriage work. It is irrelevant if she is serving you with papers or not, she is having an affair.
Dr. Harley encourages husbands to stay in plan A as long as they can, because a WW will typically respond to the care and effort of a BH eventually.

Dr. Harley also suggests that you should protect marital assets and your own financial future. Although it is often recommended here on the forum, that you file for full custody, I have never heard Dr. Harley take a really strong stance on that. It really depends on your situation. Of course there are many situations in which the wayward spouse all but abandons the children, so that it is important that you be their rock and give them stability, but that does not automatically mean full custody. I recommend that you get thorough legal advice as to the laws in your state and that you put EVERYTHING IN WRITING because wayward spouses notoriously change their minds after the deal is done and they are under influence of their affair partners.

You may want to think about your own situation, child care, how your spouse has been treating the children and if there is anything you can do to prevent them from having to see their mother's affair partner. Put everything in writing and think ahead. Get some people to put in writing that you are a nice father, who knows that you may need it.

If you stay in plan A after a divorce, you can use childrens outings to fun places to lure your wife on family fun dates with you. OM can never compare to you as the father of her children. If you decide to go into plan B, it is recommended that you do parallel parenting, which means that you can have minimal (e-mail) contact with your spouse to make plan B possible. Plan B though has a higher risk of divorce and a smaller chance of reconcilliation than plan A. That is why Dr. Harley recommends plan A for as long as you can for men.

That's what I desided to take all I can in the parenting plan, right know my step daughter hates her mother.
Like Saturday night thy had a girls night and saw a movie together, well my step daughter came home anger as you get. she saw her mom was texting the POSOM during the movie. Right know she is seeing her mom as a lier and really does not care how she feels.
I had her talk to a friend of ours to get her to calm down.
The my WW said she was going to take a drive after thy came back. Which at this point going to take a drive means seeing the POSOM. Well she got home right after 3am.
So with all theses late night outings I feel she is abandonin the kids. She never checks in to see how thy are doing nothing.

I sure wish I could put more pressure on there relationship, I done see how thy are going to make it. My WW is talking to him about getting a place together, but POSOM is not going to be much help as I found out he's on SSI medical disabled.
If thy move in together or get married he will get less SSI to getting canceled all together from my research.

Her car she bought I don't thing will be on the road long, when she left to go to the movies, it made a loud pop and she left and there was this nice scraping noise.

I can't believe how this story is unfolding, nothing makes real since. I just hope it ends soon, I it's really hard on the kids and I hate to see that.

Ron, thankfully happyheart responded about Plan A.

It really is hard to watch your kids being hurt by their mother's selfish behavior. Are you still keeping a handwritten journal, documenting the kid related things that you are posting on MB? As hard as this is to endure, there is an up-side to her behaviors. You have a record of them.

The information about POSOM being on disability is good. he isn't going to offer her financial stability. When THAT reality hits the fan, it's really going to stink for them.

The texting to OM while with her little girl, typical. The way-wards go into a bubble and they think nobody sees what they are doing. They turn their bodies a little bit sideways and tilt the screen away so you can't see the texts, but the effect is that your stepdaughter knows she doesn't matter but that POSOM does. Very hateful. Her affair is damaging her relationship with her child, and she doesn't care a whif. You are that child's life preserver.

I am trying to keep a journal but it's not easy taking care of the kids,work and paperwork for the lawyer stuff like that.

Today Sunday I let me emotions get the better of me and I am not sure if it was bad or good.So my WW was getting ready to leave for a new church and I was going to go with. When I went to get into the car she asked what I was doing and I said I was going with. She shook her head and said no. So I slammed the door saying nothing and ran into the apt to get the keys to my car. When I came down the stair she said something I forgot. And we talked and she let me go. Inside the car she said don't do that again and I did not answer.
It seemed to soften her abit, but I have the feeling I over reacted.
I don't like anything to come between me and the kids.

On another note is there anything I can do about her driving the kids around drousy? I noted she was pretty drousy on the way to and from church today. 3 to 4 hr of sleep a night is not helping.

Yeah, and my WW just seeing her daughter being rebellious and my WW keeps saying it was school related emails she was replying to. My daughter says she could cleary see who my WW was texting too.

How far will my WW go?
My friend been talking to my daughter and getting her to calm down. My friend informed me that my daughter is at risk to run away. And so far has talked her out of running away.

Your daughter's desire to run away is probably a wish to get rid of the horrid situation her mother has forced on her. Your love and stability are the best things for her right now. She is blessed to have you in her family.

It's rotten when anyone foresakes their own family to selfishly indulge in extra marital affairs.

I hope the time you and the kids spend together is fun and that you are building the bonds between you all.

I just answered an earlier post of yours.

About the drowsy driving: I looked up the law for a person who is an IV drug user (life-long, daughter of a friend). The woman has had several car accidents, and last year totaled her brand new car. She had to buy a used clunker.

I looked up laws on the internet, and it came down to the police will not keep an eye out for an impaired driver if you call in to give their plate number. They will only intervene if one of them witnesses the driver doing something illegal, and then they will pull them over.

This addict seems to have a charmed life, in spite of several traffic stops by the local sheriff.

I intended to report her, but there was no way to do that. I don't know what to tell you. Sorry.

I try to spend as much time with her as I can, Sunday afternoon we went for a walk and I took her to DQ down the street. My WW would kill me because she is punishing her for her behavior toward her. But I don't see it as justice punishment. I ausured her I am doing what I can and I just can't tell her right not what I am doing, because her mom can't know right know or it might make things really hard for her and dad.
I have also tried to explain to her that keeping secrets from mom right know is not a bad thing with what is going on, but not something we should do.

Because of the way her mom treats her right know I am giving her some extra leeway in staying up a little bit longer.
I was letting her stay in my bed, but know her mom is going to punish her if she is any were but in her bed.

Is this your step-daughter you're talking about? I do hope not.

Not that I think there is anything wrong with a daughter sleeping in Dad's bed when there is a crisis in the family, but she is your stepdaughter. Waywards fight dirty and accuse parents of horrible things. Do not give WW any ammo.

Walking to DQ for ice cream is a very neat thing to do, however! Too bad if WW wants to punish her. The child sees exactly what is going on and her sense of outrage is completely justified. She will be looking to you for moral clarity later in her life.

You are the most loving caring parent in this whole mess and it's important that your [step]daughter doesn't have any problems staying in your home, with her family.

Please do not let her stay in your bed. The very last thing you need is an irrational, unstable, hostile woman (who has been trying to throw everything against you except the kitchen sink) making allegations that you are sexually abusing your stepdaughter. False accusations like that can very quickly take on a life of their own.

tl

You had 3 replies 3 minutes, all saying basically the same thing. Please don't ignore us.

tl

I will emphasise that it is not just the issue of what your wife might accuse you of.

If this is indeed your stepdaughter that you were speaking about, then any idea of her sleeping in your bed is wrong, in and of itself. This is a ten year-old girl, who is not your daughter. Her sleeping in your bed would be morally wrong.

Ok, will do HEARD LOAD AND CLEAR. I never given it any thought because the kids always come to our bed lots of times.

So on another note I just start to posting photos with a nice comment of my WW and kids on FB. Letting my friends like and comment first then a few days latter tag her and let her friends comment and like. It seems like a good idea and to leave some history behind.
So far I am impressed how many like and comments there has been, most of my FB friends have no idea what's going on.

My WW seems far away, she even swearing around the kids according to the 10 year old. The 10 year old says the 3 year old is now dropping F bomes. I have yet to hear the 3 year old say that, but just a matter of time.

It has me wondering how much hope there is for her.

I wouldn't single her out. I would just make it a rule for all the kids.

Your WW is sinking. They turn into strangers.
You will be correcting the kids whenever they cuss. You might be hearing about their F bombs from pre-school teachers, parents of the kids' friends, etc. Good news: you can break those bad habits if you are consistent with corrections.

I'll be on top of the kids if thy use such language, I am lucky that the 10 year old hates that language as much as me.
The 3 year old is might take some doing though.

Well I hope sinking of my WW is a good thing.

A update today Thursday my WW had some bad food and called in sick and has been sleeping between here stomach cramps.
I guess I call it my lucky day, I mean I hate seeing her sick, but she seems more her old self and I was able to help her and get close and help her get around the house.
I know it's short lives but I had the chance to be there for her.

It's really going to be short lived, because on Saturday I am having serving her papers for a hearing to have her divorce thrown out for wrong venue.
The hearing will be a week on the 31st. I am trying to brace for the anger I am going to receive. And I pray the hearing will go my way with out much trouble.
I can see why it would not, but strange things happen.

Plan A points scored for taking care of your wife while she was sick. Good work!

You said you plan to serve your wife. You know you can't personally serve her, right? Because you are a party to the case. Did you mean a process server or a sheriff will serve her? You want this all done by the book.

Oh, and of course she will be furious with you. Her fury will not be the ending of your marriage or your chances for recovery. Your failure to act to protect your marriage, and your children, could be very bad for all of you. You are doing absolutely the right thing!

Have some stock responses for when she goes ballistic.
"I will do everything I need to to keep our children safe."
"I don't want to talk divorce. I want to save our marriage. I love you."

She might hurl some pretty ugly stuff at you. Don't respond in kind. You're in a marathon. Satisfaction of a minute by saying the wrong thing isn't worth it. Good luck!

Thanks,
Oh I know I am not personal serving her, a friend of mine is, that's going to happen tonight or in the morning.

So my decision I have to make is do I sit tight after Monday or server her with legal separation to by time.
From more snooping it looks like my WW having me served has made her happy and it's a step closer to be with him.

I am leaning towards to filing and my laywer thinks it could by time if she is not paying attention.I thunk it just might put extra pressure on her and the OM. I can't stop her from refilling so what do I have to lose?

I have to say besides the cost my lawyer been great, writing up documents with the footer that has my name instead of the lawyer office. Trying to keep things under the radar until he needs to be in the picture.

Also in my snooping last night I guess she hate me touching her, so I am guessing the hugs and a kiss on the cheek or hand.

And this might be hope, my WW apologized to the POSOM for getting upset at something. It was not clear what it was about.
It's hard to snooping on my WW she guards her phone like a hawk, even when she sleeps.

My ex wife also slept with her phone.
These cheaters would risk their life to save their phone from being run over.

My now ex kept his phone on vibrate in his pants pocket. Whenever the OW called him, he would jump in the tiniest way. Then he would run into the bathroom and close the door. A few minutes later, he would put the dog's leash on her collar, put on a jacket, and take the poor critter out on an hour or longer walk. It's classic cheating behavior. I think if they could, they'd have the cell phones surgically implanted under their arms where nobody could sneak a peak at the call history.
(I used to look at his while he showered in the morning, just to confirm to myself that I was really not crazy; that the incomings and the dog walks were at the same times.)

It's funny how thy think thy can sneak around and his things and in reality it makes it even more obvious. My WW code work I need to go for a drive really means I am going to go see the POSOM and I'll be home really late.
I have to wait till she is sound asleep, because she locks the doors and takes her phone when she showers. I just wait up till the phone falls on the floor and sneak peak what's she's been upto.

What do you guys think after I get her motion for divorce kicked out I file for separation? It will give me a advantage. And my lawer is hoping the way she been doing things so far that we might get a default. That's would save lots of hassle.
It's abit of Russian roulette, but has a high chance of winning.

In answer to your question, i dont see any advantage in filing for a legal separation. Typically cheaters just use separation as a free pass to cheat nor openly. The purpose of this forum is to discuss how to implement Dr. Harleys methods and he has said he does not want posters being advises to divorce on the forum. That is a choice the betrayed spouse must make.
I think the advantages a divorce or separation would have to be weighed with your lawyer.
The question i would ask your attorney is what is the advantages of a separation over a divorce? You will presumably have to pay the lawyer twice if you go that route.

If you are trying to simply avoid divorce by beating her to the courthouse and filing for separation then you need to examine your motives. Dont spend your energy trying to legally force this woman to remain married to you.

Jedi is right--separation, post-Nups, etc. are cheater cart-blanch. Mine pushed really hard for a post-nup, but it was just so he could feel like he could cheat more openly.

Filing for divorce is a much more direct and stronger action.

I hear what you are saying, since my WW seems to be going down this path of divorce. I am into protectioning the kids. I could wait and hope she does it pro se again and then i files temporary orders and fight it out. If she get a lawer and that's a if. I would be fighting a uphill battle if she gets temporary orders. I feel like I am doomed if I don't doomed if I do.

So many hard choices

***EDIT***

I guess what I am asking, should I got forward and file, or should I wait.
I know by filing all the power is in my court and she's going to have a hard time getting what she wants.
I think I figured out how she got this plans. She makes 1500 a month right know. By geting custody of the kids she will have the my step daughter 400 plus 600 for the two of are kids, that's makes a nice 2500 a month to live on.
That's seems to make since from her paperwork on the divorce.

I am hoping to have some reality hit when she realize she not going to get that 600.
My lawyer says I should have no problem getting full custody of the kids with her working grave yard.

My end goal is till save this marrage but not at the expense of the kids or getting back together in the future with my WW.
I am just not ready to cut my loses with her yet.

Sir, Dr. Harley has said he doesn't want posters advising divorce on this board.
if its an issue of strategy, you should address it with your attorney.
You can also email Dr. Harley directly and ask for his advise.

Apologies. I've been away from the Boards for loooong stretches of time.
I guess I need to get current with the new ideals.

Well I desided to sit tight and let her refiles if she choises.

Today was hard in some ways and others I am not sure.
So she desided to unfriend me on FB, that sure hurt. I know it just a dumb social site but it did hurt none the less.

After I went to church, I came home and we went bowling as a family. When we got home she yelled at me saying she does not appreciate me trying to stop the divorce and how mad she is at me telling the kids about the divorce (she will not admit to the affair ) and then was upset that her daughter thinks she is a witch and will not listen to her and ordered me to take care of it it and spank her, because she was throwing a fit. I told my WW that she is told old to spank and I not going to do that.

Then I expand to her she can't expected me to rescue her every time she takes the rains away from me and when things are not work out have me rescue her when it comes to the kids. I told her we have to work together with the kids.
She sat down on the couch with are 11 month old and started to cry. I try ed to comfort her and ask why she was crying. She was crying because her 10 year old hates her.

After I came back from mowing the lawn, we had some dinner in the living room and she seems way more friendly and invited me to sit on the couch next to her.

I am not sure what's this week will bring, I guess next Monday will be really telling were she is at.

I do have to say one thing, no matter how much self control you think you have this really puts you to the test. It was really hard to keep my cool and try to deescalate things.

Sorry for any typos I am using my phone.

Texting with my WW today I get the feeling like she thinks I don't care for the family by some of the comments she made. And it was basically about I wanted to be keeped in the loop about sitting arrangements since the sitter was sick and may not come in that day.
I made the comment I wanted to know because I care about the family. I get I am sure you do....

Is this pretty normal behavior from a WW?

Hi Ron, I have not kept up with all the recent details of your situation, but wanted to share a couple thoughts on your recent posts. If you are Plan A'ing, then just focus on executing the plan, regardless of what you receive back from your WW. The essence of Plan A, in my opinion, is that you are doing those things because you believe that is what a good husband does. Therefore, your WW's reaction to what you are doing doesn't matter, you just do it. You are in reality doing it for you, to become who you want to be. That "no expectations" outlook frees you from the crazy manipulations of the Wayward. While they are in in the fog, they have limitless energy to mess with you, far more energy than you can possibly have to counter it. So don't. Pursue your plan and let the chips fall where they may.

Good Luck!

I keep feeling there is more I can do. But I am not sure if that's me, because I am the kind of guy that wants action and solve problems.

Ron, a lot of times, the wayward is doing this stuff that I quoted above to test you. They see the changes and want to know if the changes are REAL. So they change the environmental variables under which you are working the plan to see if it will hold up. If a little stressor, like a snide remark, can take you out of your game, it must not be a solid change.

Just keep in mind that you ARE solving your problems when you work the MB plan. You may or may not get the results you desire with your Wayward, but you can always achieve the results you want for yourself. When you build the habits that a good husband has, other problems shrink because the good crowds out the bad.

I disagree. I think a wayward is usually so deep in the fog, they dont have enough rational thought to actually test something.

I wouldn't use the word normal.
i would say its typical wayward behavior.

Thanks Jedi_Knight that's way better wording.

I have a question,That I am dealing with.
What do i do about my WW independent behavior? its mainly about the kids, she does not keep me informed who is sitting them or if plans change, does not see why she should provide me there numbers and my number to the sitters.

I came home tonight and the 10 year old informed me that my WW is working on Saturday and someone else is going to watch them. I have no idea why i don't work on weekends besides the projects that need to get done like fix the car. but i have no problem if i need to stay home all day watching the kids. I love spending time with the kids.
My WW just seems to want to cut me out of everything important.

Dr. Harley would disagree with you. WWs often test their BHs.

The best comparison is a drug addict. In that case, the Taker seems to be in command which is why Harley observed similar behaviors between the drug addict and the person involved in an affair. That is why he patterns the treatment for affair off of a drug addicts treatment.

Well a update, yesterday i went to court and i did not get the divorce kicked out. The judge desided to do a change of venue.
Well my WW was livied. At first my WW was trying to belitting me and calling me how stupied i was. In her mind know there will be GL and parenting classes she was avoiding in this county. She does not realize it does not matter what county it is the GL will be involved. Parenting classes are no longer a requirement in this state.
What i dont get how she can go from verbal abuse to giving me a hug and saying she is sorry to hating me then back to being civil all in a hour time.

Its hard do this court stuff which makes my WW mad and being in plan A mode

My wife had radical mood changes within an hour time too.
one night, she woke me up at 1 am and told me she was sorry for having an affair. When i didnt accept her apology, she said she hated me and hoped i would go to hell!

Its sure hard to have self control when your being belittled and sworn at, lots of f bombs.
I just wish i know what i am doing is having some kind of impact and the affair is unraveling or not.
To many unknows drives me nuts.

I understand.
my wife would flip me off while i was in the house with the toddler.

What other plan A stuff can I do that I might be forgetting?
I really wish I know how to push the OM away some more but his pretty much a hermit in his mom's house.

You just have to wait for the affair to die a natural death. It may take weeks, months or years.
You have done all you can to drive OM away and should focus on yourself and plan A.

What makes things hard now it seems she tried to find fault in me how ever she can. So far all she can come up with is small things like i eat her lunch. Well it was unlabled no one told me and its been siting in the frig for about a week. Or the house is not clean enought because she found a speck some were.

So i get that one one side and i am getting thanks for others, i am so confused.

So because i eat her lunch for work i desided it cook up her a small steak dinner nothing fancy set the oven on a timer to keep it warm till she got home. I did get a thank you on the frig and in a text.

I am also confused how she is going throw with this divorce and still expects me to meet alot of her needs to be meet.

All this is taking a toll on me and the kids. We all miss her and the 3year old is getting upset and says she misses mommy every night.

I guess we are still going away for the weekend with the family i so i guess she cant be to mad or resentful towards me. I just pray we have a good time.

A wayward in an affair is the most selfish thing on the planet. They will not consider you or your kids, their first thought is about themselves or affair partner.
No one can understand it, and it is beyond frustrating.
One of the major reasons that the affair must be destroyed through exposure. An addict thinks only of themselves.

I have a question I been pondering.
What is it that makes people want to save there marrage vs the ones that give up on the marrage when infidelity happens.

Even with all the hurt and betrayal I feel, there is nothing I would not do to get her back. Even if was to come At risk to me to keep her safe. Is the love I have for her?

I guess I am asking because the world says to give up and move on and thy don't understand why I would put myself through this to maybe save the marrage.

Struggling with this question myself....

Your emotions are going to fluctuate. Sometimes from day to day and sometimes from minute to minute. Eventually your wife will come back or you will get off the roller coaster. Some choose to get off earlier than others, but everyone struggles, even the ones that say they don't.

Threads merged. Please stay on one thread.

Sorry, since it was a general question and not that i am thinking of giving up. i thought a new thread was in order.

Thats an interesting question.
Dr. Harley has written and said that when people approach him, he typically doesn't advise to stay married or divorced. He considers that a personal choice and he uses his methods to help people who choose to remain married. At the Same time, he states that as a Christian psychologist, he believes that victims of adultery have a moral right to divorce their cheating spouse.

So such decisions are personal. It all boils down to what your personal philosophy on life is. Some fight to the bitter end, some throw in the towel to fight another day.
When i was in a similar situation to yours, I was reminded of the Rocky movies and I resolved to give it my all. I decided that i would fight for my marriage in Plan A until Divorce day and when the bell rang, that was it.

I fought the good fight and i can look at myself in the mirror and say i fought and gave it my all. But when the bell rang, that was the end. I suppose i lost the fight but won the war.

I encourage you to watch the Rocky movies. Watch Braveheart and the Patriot. John Wayne movies. They inspire you to give it your all. At all costs avoid chick flicks during this time.

I feel like I am missing something, it does not look like what I have done has had a effect on my WW and the OM. There messages are between them thanks for the support during these hard times, etc but fewer messages and shorter calls. A intresting development looks like she got a new friend at work and he wants to meet for coffee and is telling her how attractive she is. I am pretty sure it was the young guy that served me with my WW divorce stuff.

They are saying that they're going through "hard times," and yet you don't think what you did had an effect? I don't remember what your exposure entailed. Did you expose on both their sides? If so, you've done all you can, and you need to stop worrying about how it is affecting them. Focus your thoughts on more positive things.

If your wife is now juggling several boyfriends, though, you've got a larger problem on your hands.

Well its coffee now, who knows what's his intentions are, and not far off turning into another affair.
Man life sure has a way of kicking a guy when he is already down.

If she agrees to it while he's made his intentions clear, then I think that might put her into the category of a serial cheater.

I just want to cry, so far I never have cried so much in my life.

On the positive side of things the kids seem to grown closer to me in all this and last night I started to read the first book in the Chronicles of Narnia. The 10 and 3 year old made a fuss since thy wanted me to read what thy picked out. But after I got started I had the 3 year old in my lap and the 10 year old hovering closer and she started to read along.
It just had the great feeling we were growing closer together and there was peace in the house. I really thanks God for the family I have. Kids are great even if thy can be a pain some times.

Man i sure feel for WD, i am half way through his thread.
From reading his thread i have a idea i have the OM posted on playerblock but he does not appear to use the internet. So my idea is why not print out the people in the area that cheat and start posting them on the public board at stores?
Good idea or bad?

Similar ideas were exchanged with WD, even to hire unemployed or homeless people to wear body poster sugns and walk in front of the drug store he worked at.

But, as far as your Own wife's cheating goes, anytime you expose the situation, it is supposed to come from a place in your heart seeking assistance for her to end her marital miscues and restore a once decent marriage, with the willingness to create a fantastic and daily romantic marriage.

LTL

For those that are not famiar with the wild roller coaster ride of WD, which is WifeDivorcing as the actual User Name, Melody Lane currently has a link in her Signature portion, directing you to that posters thread and the trials areyou d tribulations he endured, yet achieved a beginning of reconciliation as of his last written update.

LTL

Ron,

The problem is that WD 's OM was a businessman and active member of the community. Exposure was starting to hurt his business.

Your OM is just a classic deadbeat.

He is probably looking for easy sex.

Yes, you continue to Plan A. Up to two years or as long as you can continue without it negatively affecting your health. It's not for the weak of heart. Dr. Harley does not recommend continuing past the 2 year mark. The odds are in your favor up to that point.

I know its going to be along hard road, wish in my case i did not have to live through another divorce.
It seems the odds will be really low after the divorce, and when the affair dies she just keep moving on.
My step daughter says she will not be happy with her mother till this family is back together. I know thats what she says now i hope that resolve does not fade, i guess i see that being the one thing that might help in the long run.


My poor kids i it really does break my heart seeing thy will have to live through this.

Its very difficult on kids but if you provide stability and routine habits they will get through it much better.
Do you attend a local Church?
If not I encourage you to attend a church tomorrow.

It has been slightly over 3 1/2 years since my Wayward Serial Cheating Wife left me and my just turned 9 years old Son, (at that time), and it has now been over 2 1/2 years since she has had ANY contact with him at all.

Last week, for the 1st time in over 6 months, we slightly discussed her, and his response, now at 12 1/2 years old, is that he used to be a little hurt by her leaving and having no contact, but now he doesn't trust her at all and it doesn't bother him at all anymore. Plus, in the past he has told me that I am everything to him, because I am such a good Dad.

Like Jedi said, develop routines with them and keep them occupied in fun, yet responsible activities. Our routine includes, Catechism Class once per week, enrollment in tge school orchestra playing the violin, enrollment in his schools choir, Boy Scout Meetings once per week and campouts, karate classes 2 times, per week and plenty of time at the local library along with his weekly fun playtimes with friends of his on our block and from school.

Do the Absolutely Best job of continuing your Plan A, but always prioritize the emotional security of any children first.

LTL

I do go to church, but my WW has forbidden the kids to go to that church anymore. Thats the church i did the exposer at and the OM used to attend.
In a few weeks Awana is going to start and thy will be doing that.

I am sorry, but it sounds like your doing a great job. And it sounds like he looks up to you.
It really bothers me when my WW says she would rather be working than dealing with you kids. Yes kids can be a bother but that thought never crossed my mind.
Saying stuff like that to kids just makes them thing you dont love them.

I am worry my WW is heading down for a break down, i have notests she is going on less and less sleep and she now keeps going on Red Bulls. How long can one drink that stuff and sleep 3 to 6hrs a day?

For years. Look at college students. They live on it. Or medical school students.

I just finished WD thread, i have to say wow. He sure endured a lot and i am glad he got his happy ending, he sure deserved it.

I am also worried about my step daughter, i can see she still tries hard to love her mother. But it just makes her frustrated and angry in the end.
I pray though all this i can help her. Right know my step daughter want to live with me.

It breaks my heart that her mother cant see what her daughter needs and wants. Right now my step daughter says she will not be happy until her mom puts this family back together.

We are out on the beach for the weekend, I sure wish I could get through her walls. She is so defensive about everything other than a few moments were she let's down her wall and smiles and we can really have fun talking. Then the walls go right up, I guess for having fun.

Normal WW response just keep plan A'ing.

I fugured out I just need to do stuff for my WW, cus I when I get asked I get shut down.
I don't get shut down as much if I just do it.

I still I would like to know why she talks as if we stayed married, but talk about how she does not want to be married and we are not friends with benefits. So confused.

It seems that me saying that the 10year old to old to be spanked has turned in to a hot button with my WW. And seems to blame me for all the kids wrong doing or when thy dont listen or behave.

I hope the rest of the day does well, so far it's stared out rather rough

Am I crazy? It seems I am way over sensitive about what's going on around me.

Well the weekend was ok, the kids put up a fuss, which she tried to blame on me it felt like.

We had long talk about the kids schooling (we home school and the oldest has a hard time focusing and listening) toward the end of are talk I said I would love it if I could to stay home and do one on time with her in school work. I got from my WW so your trying to get rid of me? I said oh no I am not getting rid of you it takes both of us raising and schooling the kids and I would not dream of pushing her away.

It still seems she plain on staying there long term by the way my WW talks but still going through with the divorce.

Well when we got home she was going to leave for alone time (it's code word I am seeing the OM)
But she ended up staying home, I am guessing cus there was not reply to her texts.
So while she was getting the 11 months old asleep, I put things away from are trip and did a few loads of laundry and some cleaning.

It seemed the night ended well enought, she seemed down even after her phone call (she went outside, so guessing she called the OM and it was 12:30 am) when she went to sleep.

My wife would leave for "alone time" too.
Lying serpents.

Today was really hard for me for some reason. I am not sure because it was my sons 1 birthday or what.
but I am just heart broken, looking at old photos of us i saw that look of love and i really miss that look and my WW. I have done nothing be cry. even writing this is making me cry.

I am going to need to make decisions soon, my lawyer want to have a court order to have my WW vacate the apartment.
My gut says no unless she gets worse and my mind says she need to go.
so I email Harley Tuesday of last week with the same questions and i have not heard anything yet.

I am guessing i need to make that decision this next week when i have to respond to the divorce case when it shows up in this county.

If your wife isnt home, take the kids to church this morning.

Ron,
Remember, your lawyer works for you. His or her role is to execute tactically in support of what your strategic goals are.

So it seems like you are doing a pretty darn good Plan A. That is always tough in your circumstances so, good job! If you can sustain Plan A further then tell your lawywer to hold of on the submitting a motion for her to vacate. If you have had all you can take of her behavior (which is repulsive and insulting) but still want to try for reconciliation then prepare your Plan B before your lawyer submits any motions. If you want to call it quits, then you can proceed.

Whatever you are doing though, plan it out, set aside the plan for a bit, then review it and if it seems good, execute. You do not want to act precipitously at any point. Act strategically! When you plan and execute your plan, you will not feel like things are so out of control. So please. Take a deep breath, decide what you want to accomplish, then construct a plan for that outcome. The MB forum team has decades if not centuries of collective experience to draw on, so if you have any doubt, bring your plan here. The team can help you tweak it. And also hold you accountable through progress updates and help keep you on task or to suggest revision of the plan.

$.02

Don't forget. You are the driver, not your lawyer.

Thanks Walkthe Walk, I just needed direction and also to know my feelings were not doing the driving.

My heart was saying kicking her out by court order right now was going to be a bad move.
Right know my heart is saying drag things out as long as possible. When the case shows up in the right County then just put in the temp parenting plan and supportING documents. I just want to be the defender in all this.

My goal is to save this marriage and the 10 year old daughter is with me. She and I want the old mom/wife back and work on making everything better.

It's funny how my WW thinks I have the kids turned against her. Even though I am trying hard to get the 10 year old to treat her mother better.
I don't need to do anything to turn the kids she doing a fine job at that herself.


Sunday was not to bad, WW came home around 6:30 saying she went out with some coworkings. I checked onto that, she visited the OM after work.
We made plans that day to go to the state fair. She tried to drive there and back but only lasted 15 to 20 mind for she asked me to drive (it's she car we too and she is every protective of it).
The fair was fun but I could tell she really was not there, keeper looking off in the distance.

I must be doing something I hope, because she wrote to the OM that she was tired and burned out from being around me so much.

Yes, you are doing something. She seems to me to be getting some ENs met by you. Do you know what those are? Do you have a handle on any lovebusters? She will likely complain to you that she hates it when you do ABC. Examine those statements to see if it is a LB or is it that is is making deposits and she hates the confusion that creates. Usually the POSOM cannot sustain the level of competition that the committed father and husband can. Keep up the good work!

EMs i am going to guess Financial Support,Domestic Support,Family Commitment. She not letting me meet Affection at all. She hates when i do anything for her. So i dont ask i just do.
I am avoiding LB at all costs, i am trying really hard the way i phrase things to avoid how it might be taken.

Thinking back to when we dated, i started to send her messages like hows your day going and at night before i go to bed i say night sweetdreams and be safe.(shes working night shift) I dont get a response but i do it anyway.

Bring home flowers from time to time and leave a note.
I am trying my hardest to keep the apt clean and picked up, doing laundry and stuff like that. I also been making her lunch to take and leave dinner out for her when she gets home. I make her coffee in the morning before i head out to work.

I try to talk to her and spend time with her, but its like talking to a wall most of the time.

Through all this i am spending a ton of time with the kids and started to read them the Chronicles of Narnia which the 10 year old is now looking forward to me reading.
Its funny its really seemed to help the kids behavior spending this much time with them. Know my WW things i am turning the kids against her because thy dont want to listen to her.

I am also trying to improve myself and seeing a counseler in the church that the pastor sponsored me seeing.

It still feels i fall short, just not sure were yet.

Oh as far as complants its been stuff like i dont keep the apt clean enought, the kids are not listening to her, so far i cant find anything big or major right know.

Oh other than the fact i am fight the divorce and got a change of venue. So she thinks i am i idiot and not thinking.

Slow and steady, in your Plan A. You're strengthening your family. Your wife will have a warm and loving home to come back to.

That's what I keep telling myself slow and steady wins the race.
At least that bad evenings with the kids seem be much shorter before.

I am little concerned about the 10 year old. I came home today and she told me her mother slapped her under the chin today at the food bank thy volunteer at. Something about the 10 year old said she finished her work and mom I guess did not believe it. Well anyway I don't see a reason to ever do that. It left a nice quarter sized bruise right under her chin.
I did take a photo, I felt like it was a good idea to document.

So is it common for a WW to get like that with her kids? Do I need to start worrying about the kids safety now?
If I question my WW I feel she going to lie about it. I hate to think the 10 year old is making stuff up.

Any advice?

Yes, the kids can sense that all is not well and are scared and confused. The less they react to those feelings, in my opinion, would indicate thos feelings are lessened or improved. Good Job.




Not sure that it is common, but my guess wold be that all is not proceeding according to your WW's preconceived notions, that is frustrating her and she probably lost it for a minute. I definitely think this is something that bears further scrutiny. Is corporal punishment a new method in her repertoire? If so, and this marks a change, I would be concerned about a continuation along this spectrum and definitely document and continiuaslly reassess. If you believe that anything crosses from discipline into abuse, then you would want to request that she have supervised visitation only.

On the other hand, if the 10 year old is making it up, it may be a different manifestation of their unhappiness with their mother's actions. An unhealthy one, and needing to be redirected. Those feelings are completely justified, they just would need to be expressed in a healthy way.

On balance, we know that WW's are liars. Do they lie about EVERYTHING? No, but they do lie as a habit so if I had to bet on which one is lying, it'd be the WW.

Corporal punishment is nothing new in are house, but never in the face or leave a bruse.
I beleve when you start leaving bruses is when you cross the line from punishment to abuse.
It's something I am going to keep a close eye on.
I don't feel good what my WW did no mater the circumstance. It's all possible the 10 year old got mouthy. But even that is uncalled for in my mind.
The 10 year had been getting mouthy with her mom, but her mom is not listening to what she has to say or feel. It seems my WW want the kids to line up in a row and go along with what she's got going. And when that does not happen she is getting angry now.

Like last night around 3am she got angry because she could not find the remote for the satellite TV, she woke me up took are bed apart and demanded I tell her were the remote was. I told her I don't have and I don't know we're it is. She demanded 3 or 4 more times like I was keeping it. Then said well your the "adult in the house" and left.
The kids take the remote and it's never were it should be. So I been using my phone to work the TV and satellite. I should say one detail I have the satellite recipe hooked up to both the living room and bedroom tv.

I am not sure why but when my WW can find or does not like something she keeps saying "your the adult in the house" almost like I am some overlord and I should know everything or have everything in order and follow her wishes.

If she is leaving bruises on your daughters face its a serious problem.
i dont know what to tell you. **EDIT** yet your daughter now has a bruise on her face.
Dr. Harley is very clear that safety comes first and i would encourage you to report it to the police while she can still be examined.
Can i ask what virtues your wife has that you find attractive?

Well right now none, she had done a 360 in the way she acts.
but what i used to love was how much family meant to her, she was hard working, sweet, thoughtful, and tried to make everyone feel special that here her friends.

it just breaks my heart to see her do a 360 and treat me like i am a stranger in my own home

Did you report the bruise to the doctor or the police?
Dr. Harley strongly advocates consequences for abusers. It places them on notice that abuse will not be tolerated.

Right now im more concerned about your daughter than your heart and you should be too.
unfortunately its your step daughter so that complicates the matter.
I think you should email dr. Harley for advice. I dont know how you can plan a an abusive woman

I know things are pretty complicated I am not 100% if I should involve the police just yet. I don't want her to end up some were like foster care. I am scared of CPS.
I want to have things in place before I push things. It would crush her and I if she ends up away from me and the other kids could be affected too with CPS.

Well wont the teachers at school ask about the bruise?
Does she have a lie she is telling people who ask?

I had a talk with the lawyer about this and he said just document it and if it happens again we will move in it. with just one instance its hard to do anything about it he said.

There is a general consensus that male abusers are prevalent and females and children are their victims. Society perpetuates this concept but the fact is that there are more female abusers. Harley mentioned an Australian study on his Radio Show once which found there were more men going to the hospital with spousal injuries than women but men typically dont report these events to the police.

I wonder if it is true everywhere or just in Australia? I have a darling nephew married to an Australian girl that hits him. Nothing has ever been reported to the police as it is considered a source of shame and embarrassment to admit that your wife hits you.

There is no doubt that domestic violence is passed down. Incredibly important to protect children from it or they will become abusers as adults.

I dont know. But i have access to college databases and will look for studies on this.

I have heard Dr. Harley say for years that more men were victims of domestic violence than women. There is a study done by the CDC in 2011: http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

A study from 1999 showed they were equivalent: here

Another interesting thing that Dr Harley has mentioned is that almost all domestic violence occurs in relationships where the couple lives together or lived together before marriage. Those relationships have a very high level of domestic violence.

I find it interesting how so many people today pretend like traditional morality is a worthless relic of the past. The truth is that living a godly life is beneficial and prevents many of the problems that seem to be rampant these days.

God tells us what he wants us to do and not to do, like are parents do. We may not always know the reasons why. There is always good reasons to listen.

The things I have learned over the last few months about relationships, theses stats scare me. And heading towards a divorce it scares me that my WW wants to get a place with the POSOM and what might happen with my kids. I wish I could keep the kids from him and anyone else.
I just don't like when my kids are away because I feel I can't be a protector for them.

You cant protect your kids all the time but God can.
I encourage you to read the Bible every day and read the book of Tobit (Old Testament book found in Catholic or Orthodox Bibles). It clearly shows how God uses angels to protect loved ones.

Any recommendations on how to deal with stress and being exhausted?

I seem to be making no head way with my WW, I am getting to the point were I just want her to go. She has no care for me and makes demands over what she wants the kids to do and I feel like I am being used. She does not want to talk and when she does it feels like demands and case over no discussion.

Being dead will not help you.
You need to take care of yourself. You need to sleep, eat healthy and exercise. Don't spend all of your emotional energy trying to meet your cheating wife's emotional needs. That is not what Dr. Harley advocates. Personal health comes first.

Have you spoken to your doctor about ADs? Dr. Harley recommends ADs for a short period during Plan A and Plan B.

No I have not, I don't really have a regular doctor. When I go in I just see however is available.
Well this help with being exhausted? My exhausted is more physical just from work and then picked up all the slack around the apartment that needs to get done that my WW is just not doing anymore.

Studies indicate that an individual who sleeps less than 6 hours nightly for 2 weeks will have the same alertness level as an individual that has not slept for 48 hours

Yes it will help. It will help your attention be more focused and will help you sleep. I would make an appointment and tell the doctor what you are going through.

Thanks I'll make a call in the morning and see what's the doctor says.

My WW just asked really nicely in a text if I would help her clean the apartment before she goes to work on Saturday. I had plans on working on the car, but I am not going to pass this opportunity up and help her out.
I have no idea if the affair is dieing or if this is a good sign. All I see is away to make some love bank deposits

So I snooped this morning it seems she wants me on place to serve me papers.
Oh well, helping in the long run still has to make some kind of deposits.
It seems the POSOM dad is really not on board because it looks like he's helping her out be recommending a mechanic. That's makes me upset, but nothing I can do about it.

The other thing that AD's can help with is the extra energy that is consumed by being in a stressed state, it takes far more energy to keep stressed than relaxing. The other thing that helped me, was working out. It seems counter intuitive but focusing on my fitness goals, which were completely within my own control, helped to crowd out some of the bad stuff with good stuff.

Thanks, I'll definitely look into AD's.
I been trying to workout be it seems by the time I the kids in bed and the apartment cleaned up. That if I take the slightest sit down brake I am asleep.

My WW seems to be getting more unstable, getting short with the kids and me. It seems its taking less to set her off.
I get a thanks for helping around the apartment to i dont do enought and anger then mad. Then she leaves and apologize for her behavior.

I am not sure what to expect from moment to moment.
It almost seems her world if coming apart.

Just keep PlanA'ing. Expect her to test your resolve using awful methods. When you feel it getting to you, remove yourself from the situation. I think your PlanA is effective, so keep it up as long as you can, but understand your limits.

BTW...did your get served while helping her clean your place?

Boy, did i feel like this weekend was a test, when she asked for help cleaning, then asked for me drip off lunch at work well more like dinner it was 9pm.
Then yesterday she got angery and start throwing insults and anything else she could to get me upset. I sure had to hold my tongue. I wanted to yell back if your so unhappy living here then leave. But i keeped my cool.

She is now changing her story from always been unhappy with the marrage to just been unhappy with the last year.
I'll take that as she is confused herself.

I did not get served as i expected, so not sure whats up there. My lawer pulled up the docket motion, and he said my WW is tring to skip to the end and get the divorce finalized.
He now stepping in, he said i cant be defensive anymore, otherwise i'll be on the losing end and also lose my ablity to keep the custody of the kids.
I really wish it did not have to come to this, but temp orders for custody and her move out has to be done the lawer said. She will get the papers in two weeks and about 10 day after the is the start of hearings.

I am sorry, I do not understand why your lawyer would advise your that you need to initiate proceedings or you will lose custody. Did he explain it to you in a way that makes sense to you? If not, stop any proceedings until he does. If he did, do you mind sharing what he said?

I would only proceed on that course when you can no longer PlanA.
Remember your lawyer is best served by litigating a nasty divorce. Your family is best served by being led with a loving and caring marriage.

What he said we need to get a temporary parenting plan, but to do that she needs to leave the apartment. From the sounds of getting temporary parenting plan will make it ease to keep in place and prevent her from getting temporary parenting plan in herself.
My lawyer know I am trying to save this marrage, he is also worried my WW might try to have me removed from my apartment. I'll talk to him again.

How much should I risk?

My WW has already started the ball rolling and is trying to skip to the end with a docket motion on the 21st to finalize the divorce.

I can honestly say my heart is not in it to have my WW move out yet, but on the other hand I feel like I am enabling the affair because she can come and go as she pleases.

My WW keeps talking about how hostile it is living here, and all I can figure out it is her making it hostile.
When it's just me and the kids the place has peace.

My WW is running to the POSOM when the just kids don't listen to her or are throwing a fit. Pretty much everything day kids stuff to me.
I am the oldest of 1 sister and 7 brothers, blended family. I have seen how interactions work. There is bound to be arguments between the kids. It's are job as parents to teach them to work things out.
WW can't stand it when thy don't listen to her every word and pretty much makes things worse because she does not spend the time and show them to how to work things out.
In contrast I have a ton of patiences and she has zero.

I just read this and gave me encouragement and just had to post it here.

I have tried to email Harley about this, I would love to talk to him again. But I have not gotten a response, in fact I never got the book thy were going to mail me

I have forwarded your email to Dr Harley...

Thanks

I just got a reply from Dr. Harley

I asked Dr. Harley about staying in plan A or move to plan B while separated.

I sure wish there was away to get thought to my WW, its seems all she wants is to escape.
All this affair stuff is getting old, I keep praying for a glimpse of hope she might come around.

So what are you planning on doing? Plan A or Plan B?

I am sticking with plan A, I am sure I can last a good while longer.
I know plan A will be harder while separated, so I'll just need to plan more and be quick on opportunities aso thy come up.
Any advice will be appreciated going forward.

Radio clip of Plan A'ing from afar
Segment #2
Segment #3

Thanks BrainHurts, what was discuss on the show is what I had in mind. I am really not looking forward to Friday, and the court date.
Last night the 10 year old asked me if I read mom the 10 commands every day would that help. I am glad she's thinking like that. She pretty much wants to keep putting out there, what her mom is doing in front of her.
The 10 year old also said to me some people at the food bank were thy volunteer has asked her what's wrong with her mom and she said my mom is having a affair and is destroying or family.

I still feel lucky and proud to have such a fine step daughter, I just have to keep on top of her angry out bursts toward her mother.

Keep us in your prays, I know it is making a difference.

My WW says she sleeping well, but I see her sleeping on the weekend and she is almost always having nightmares and some times she wakes up and looks confused and asked what happened if I am near by

I talked with the lawyer today and came up with a plan I am more comfortable with. We are stalling the divorce, no temp order just yet and convince the court that the case for the step daughter needs to be to settled first.
And it will help keep the costs down two, big plus for me.

So this will give me time to plan A with my WW at least until she deside to move.

I feel comfortable with this and it seems like the way God wants me to go.
I thanks everyone for there prayers and for MB and all you guys out there for the help and support. I'll be forever in your debt.
I am sure without you and MB I would be in horrible shape right now.

Ron,
Congratulations on a fine step daughter. That is simply awesome. Also congrats on taking control of the legal aspects of your situation. I know you are in a tough place, but it feels pretty good to define a plan then execute on it doesn't it?

Thanks, kids sure can say the most insightful things.

I like this plan way better, I am at peace with this route. I am not sure what her reaction will be. I know she wants to get the finalized right now.
My WW seems to have softened up abit, she seems more great full for little things and less on guard when I am near.

My WW life is got to be a mess, when she is taking naps this last weekend she was having nightmares. And she is also having black outs getting off the couch.

Oh I need help before I lose it. I need a wall I can pound my head on. Maybe I'll feel better.

I just can't stand my WW demands mostly about the kids and her angry outbursts along with using language like f**k around the kids, when she get frustrated with them. Then the fight berween her and the kids start.Then directs towards me like I am the cause. It's mostly centered with my step daughter and her not wanting to listen and disrespect twords her mother. Not much I can do about the disrespect other than talk to my step daughter. I don't want to defend anyone here since the fault as I see it is starting with her mom and her demands and disrespect twords the family.

I have come to the conclusion that my WW has a anger problem. And my step daughter getting that anger because she's not going along with mom is saying about the affair.

What do I do? My WW I'd calling me work to demand control her daugher, just to demand I carry out whatever punishment she wants carried out. There is no joint agreements at all.

Then my WW tells me I am leaving for the night, I can't stand this anymore.
Then leaves me expecting I will take care of the home front.

Have you told her to end her affair? And that you won't do anything that supports her affair?

Ron...

Usually Dr. H recommends that the step parent leave all discipline to the biological child.

Your wife may have an anger problem. And she needs to prove her affair is over.

An additional angle you might consider is that as long as you are in plan A, you should try to meet her needs. I sense that your wife has a need for FC that you are not meeting and it's very upsetting to her.

Could it be possible that your wife sees your silence in those discipline moments as siding with her daughter against her? I have been in that same situation and felt unsupported while my husband felt that the job was getting done so why double team the kids? I know for myself, that even though I was strong enough to dole out the discipline, it was very difficult and I had a strong need for my husband to back me up. I would feel horribly frustrated when he would just stand there and do nothing, leaving it up to me to be the bad guy. Demanding that he do "something" would not have been the right answer. Nor was his silence which sent an unclear message to the kids. The correct answer is learning to solve the problem once and for all.

This is a really great opportunity for you to read up on the POJA and go through the steps to solve this problem of how to help your wife feel supported in disciplining. This is a time for you to leave disrespctful judgments behind and ask if you can talk about how to be her support in the future. I see it as a perfect opportunity to deposit love units and give her hope for a better future with you.

Can you see if there's a way she could feel backed up without you actually disciplining? Or maybe write Dr. Harley about this?

Maybe have the conversation and let her know that you want to solve this problem of her feeling unbacked, and other problems in your marriage. But she needs to end the affair for good before you can do that.

And that you're willing to put the work into create a loving marriage.

Sorry that I was redundant. Typing from a small screen. Lol.

Dr. Harley discusses blended families and outlines the steps for POJA here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5008_qa.html

No, she still is denying the affair(he's a friend and you can't tell me how I can be friends with) I did not want to make a love buster in making a demand.

I have tried to talk to get her on agreement what we need to work together with the kids and not discuss punishment in front of the kids. But it ends up she takes over and pushes me out and then wonders why she is the bad guy.

I have always wanted a POJA with kids, be she always get angry goes it alone and then has me pick up the pieces and make peace again.

I am natural a peace maker, and I want peaceful home.

I will read the link you send and see if I can get my WW to go along with it.

I just don't to be put in this impossible place anymore. And I want my WW to realize that if something is not working to come up with something new and not keep trying what is not working. She is really good at making demands, it's the only way she seems to thing that's the way to get things done.

As I look at things right know the two biggest LB's going on in the family is her IM and demands that leads to AO.

Man I wish I know about MB long time ago, I would have seen the problems better then instead of recognizing the problems now.

It is not a love buster if you present it correctly.


Here, What are Plan A and Plan B

Well today was the first set of court dates. My WW thinkseems I am sinking to new lows to hurt her. He is quite upset I am seeking rights to my set daughter and trying to protect this family.

My WW is losing it, I am afraid I'll have to remove her from the home because actions she has done.
My step daughter told me that her mom was fed I up with her and pushed her out of the apartment and locked the door.
And with talking to the neighbor she says when my WW is home there always seems to yelling and things. When it's me or the sitter it's always quite.

Keep us in your prayers, it'd going to get worse before it gets better.

Hey Ron,
Looks like you are proceeding with D for strategic legal reasons. Do you mind sharing with the MB forums team what your plan is at this point? It usually helps to get it written down so then you can check off items as you accomplish or continue to accomplish them. I have been following your story, but at this point I am not sure what your goals are nor how you expect to achieve them.

Well I am in a corner, since I can't stop the divorce I am left fighting and delaying.
So right now the plan is stay in plan A (my WW thinks I am trying to hurt her in fighting, my guess it's more like she not getting what she wants) the first part is try to get some rights over the step daughter I am the only father she knows, after that is settled the divorce moves on. My lawyer is sure I'll get the kids about 70/80%.
If things end a divorce maybe it's time for plan B.
It's more about the kids this point, and if she does anything to hurt the kids again, I'll have to get a order to have her removed and temp parenting plan.

I do have say since I know about the love bank, I can really tell what adds and what really debts account.

My WW has pretty much shut down communications or just flat out lieing with me since yesterday and seems to be going farther in the affair by staying in hotels with the POSOM.


I am open to any ideas or something I am missing.

I can't help but feel sad about how my WW is handling things and how she is just hurting everyone.

The is might be good news, it looks like my WW and the POSOM is start to have abit of a fight overy a few things.

One she complaining having to hang out in her car, because the POSOM mom made it clear she is not welcome and and is making her feel ashamed for what she is doing. She made a comment to him how can thy go on if his mom will not except her, and nothing is going her way. It seems she is hiring road blocks everywhere in her words.

Two she is also complaining to him that she does not feel like he wants to get his drivers license back and move out of his mom's place.

And three I guess when my lawyer showed up at court it scared the you know what out of her and made her sick. I guess she afraid I am going to take all the tax return and take her kids from her.

She is in no way out of the fog, but it's steps in the right direction I think.

Oh, tonight I am going to leave flowers on the table and make her a steak dinner waiting for her when she gets home.

Sounds like things aren't all well in affair land!!

That's what it seems from her texts, it just needs to get worse in affair land.
she came home from work really early today, she seems depressed and almost crying and is trying to ignore me and spending time wiht the kids.
I fed the kids dinner, made her a steak dinner, cleaned up the kitchen and a few things around the house, put a dozen red roses on the table.

She does not want to talk or anything yet, I have this felling that she did not have a good day.

I am keeping a smile on my face and keeping up the fight.

Ron,
I have been following your thread and I just wanted to lend my support, you are doing a great job, the patience in all this sometimes is the hard part. It's not for nothing believe me she sees the difference.......
in every relationship there are times when one of us has to carry the other one to the right side of things this is your turn. Keep that smile on your face, make home her soft place to land..............

Thanks for your support, I can say I would not be in plan A without support.
I am always questioning my decisions and hope I am doing the right thing.
One thing I really hated to do is turn in my WW for pushing my step daughter out the door and hard enough for her fall down the stairs, but I have to protect my family and kids.
I know it's going to make her mad but I hope in the end she will see her behavior for what it is and I was there keeping the kids safe in the mist of all this.

Good job on your plan A.

Has anything come of you reporting your WW for pushing your stepdaughter?

A social worker stopped by, and my WW told me she told the social worker my step daughter just walked out and satdown one the steps. My step daughter said thy did not ask her about what happend.

I do have to say it's put my WW on notice, because today my WW and her daughter started to argue and she dragged her to the door and said get out, then she changed her tune right after she said that.

I guess I am doing something right my WW really hates me for fighting this divorce and seeking right over the step daughter.

I am getting to the point I am sick of my WW actions and I just want her to leave. And maybe some peace will come back in my life.

Disappointing that they did not talk to the child. On the other hand, the girl knows you are trying to protect her.
I hope your ww comes to her senses before it's too late to repair the marriage.

I know, but it's on record I guess.
A friend on mine things I need to deal with my WW much harder. Lay down the law and when she starts yelling at the step daughter call the cops, also he things I should get a restraining order before she really flips out.

As of right know she wants to leave at all costs take and take the kids. She is even pushing me out when the kids need discipline.

I can say I am done with her verbal abuse, disrespect and getting angry and not saying what's wrong.

Hi Ron,
Keep up the good work in Plan A.

Also if you are at a disadvantage since your step daughter is legally in your custody, you can ask the court to appoint a guardian ad litem.

You are demonstrating with your deeds that you are the husband and father your family needs.

A update on things, my WW found a lawyer and is going to fight my parentage case. I found a email to the lawyer for discovery to summarize.

she is blaming me for her daughters anger towards her saying I tell her everything that goes on. I don't take care of the kids and leave the apartment a mess and don't help with anything and ignore her and the kids. And how I am hurting her and the kids. How she is trying to keep her kids safe. Oh I been harassing her friends about the divorce and how I am very manipulation person by making her dinners and then turning her daughter against her.

That summary of a page she sent to the lawyer. I'll be more than glad to post it if you want to read it and it's ok.
I wish there is more I can do in plan A, but at this point I am not sure what is going to received or not.

Last night I noticed I big red mark left on my step daughter arm from my WW grabbing her and dragging her to the door on Saturday. My WW was dragging her and telling her to get out and then stop at the door and changed how she was dealing with the situation.

And all this started because I was going to run some errands and asked if she could come along. My WW got all angry but would not tell me or her daughter when she was asking what was the problem.

Did you take pictures of her arm and document this?

Oh yes, and told my lawyer. The unfortunate part is I am in a holding pattern over the de facto parentage really gets started. Then I can take more action over my step daughter.

I keep asking why, it does not seem right the way she treats her. All I can think of is she is smart and keeps pointing to the lies her mom spouts.

Good job. I'm so glad she has you there for her while her mom is in the fog.

Also I wouldn't put too much into what she is telling her lawyer. She is still wayward and waywards lie.

Keep up the good fight.

It really seems backwards for a step parent to keep step kids safe.
Even my lawyer gave me a compliment for when I'm doing.

I am take his complement as a big deal. I would never expect that from a lawyer.

I hope some day my WW will see my actions as protecting the family and not out to hurt her.

Well guys I am not sure we're to go from here.I was just dealt a blow. I am not what's going on with my WW, but I just found out she made a dating profile.

It's getting sadder and sadder.

I wouldn't worry too much over that Ron, she is probably not getting what she wants from her affair partner. At this point she is too proud to return home. Ultimately, I think that the pressure you have been putting on the affair with exposure and your Plan A are allowing her to see that the POSOM isn't all that. The experience she has with the "dating" sites will likely leave her feeling as used and unfulfilled as her time with the POSOM.

Just be ready to do an exposure on all the "dates" she ends up with.

Like how? At least she is being honest and saying soon to be divorced.

So do I keep dragging this out as long as possible? I am just felling the hurt all over again. I cried going to sleep and cried on my way to work.

So far it seems my plan A stuff flowers, having a dinner waiting for her. She made a statement to her lawyer I am every manipulated person by doing all this stuff.

I know this is a long fight and right now it seems really dark.

seeing her getting text messages ever few secs and smiling over them like she use to do with me, really has restarted all the hurt, and it seems the longer this goes on the less and less support i am getting. my family, her dad, a few of my friends.
I am not willing to stop yet but its been a big discouragement.
and she still is making demands which adds the the whole matter.

Is there any good meterial on how to pray effectively? i feel that all i have left and for her spiritual future.

I know how it hurts to see your spouse all involved in text messages from someone else. Went through it for a loooong time.
Prayer? If you are a Christian, do it on your knees, in the room with the door closed. Talk to G-d like He is listening. (He IS.)

First, thank Him for all the blessings he gives you. (The kids, your life, living in a free country, your health). Ask him for help restoring your marriage. Last, "Your Will Be Done." Because He is in control.

[My 2 cents. Hope it's ok.]

Well I wanted to get in to prayer deeper, my bossed recommended me "Prayer" by Timothy Keller. I am going to order the book and go through it to start with.

I am just wondering how much hope there is for my WW to come around at this point. It seems she on the thrill of talking to and going out as if she is single. Even the 10year old is felling like her mom is neglect the family and her mon is just not all that safe.

I am starting to wonder if my WW even feel pain by the way she acts and treats me and the 10 year old.

Last night my 10 year step daughter asked if her mom was texting me, because she been texting all day. I said just a few before she went to work and showed her the messages.

Hey, Ron,

Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio program so that you can understand how marriages do and do not turn around and recover from this point?

I try to listen everyday. I guess the hard part is plan A and she thinks your trying to be manipulative and she thinks acting single is a cool thing to do.
I was hoping to see some change, I am just not good change, just more entrenchment in this thing of hers.

I would love to spend time/do things with her, I just get shut out. I luck if she does not leave from watching TV when I sit down. I am not talking about the divorce or relationships. Mostly what's going with the kids and work.
I keep asking if we can go do stuff together and she says I am busy or I want to spend the time with the kids.

It seems she put herself in this fortress and will not let me visit for fear things will get better in the relationship.

I am loss for words, it looks like she want space from the POSOM so there not taking. She talking to 5 to 10 guys on the dating site has set up some dates. And then I see going out with two guys from work it sounds like one was kissing and the other sounded like thy got drunk and the line was used taken advantage of.
One guy know and the other does not what happened.

Oh the step daughter said she saw her mom an the date site talking to guys. I do have a concern that she is sharing photos of her and the kids with strangers.

Boy this a really mess someone is going to get badly hurt.

My anger about the dating site is over, I am sad she's destroying herself.

Is there anything you can do to protect your children from these predators? Do you have a keylogger? Do you have the proof she's on these dating sites?

She is on her smartphone, and is no longer under my name.
I do have access to her emails, thus is what tipped me off. So I made up a profile to have a look for myself and sure enough I got a messages from her that same day. She is really trolling.
So this morning I snagged her phone while she was asleep, she had the app open and is talking for several guys and is even texting about 3 of them.
This is how I found about the photos of her and the kids were sent.

I am really afraid for the kids, and not really sure how to protect them when there not under my care. And this getting home at 6 to 7 am Saturday morning has me worried too. What's going to keep her from doing this when she moves out?

All I can gather my WW sees me as stealing the kids, is pretty pissed I have a lawyer and doing parentage over my step daughter. Oh and calling child services.
Right know I am enemy number one and she doing her best to mess me up anyway she can.

What happened to my sweet and caring wife would always put the kids first and protect them at all costs?

Your sweet and caring wife is in the affair fog. Sharing photos of the kids with complete strangers is reckless. She has lost it. It's an invitation to pedophiles - "Come and look at my pretty children! I'm too stupid to have any boundaries at all!"

All this is making me sick in the stomach, how am I going to keep the kids safe. Washington is a no fault state, so my understanding is as long as she does not bring them around until the divorce is final there not much for me to stand on. Other than try or get as much time with the kids I can.

Is there anyone that has tried to tell her that her affair is wrong, that supports you?

Let's see the pastor,his mom,his step mom,and her dad. She's pushing every one away. Right know she is felling like a out cast if I were to guess.


It's like trying to tell alcoholic thy got a problem, so far she things she right and every one is wrong. No problem here and mind your own business is the response everyone gets.

What about going to your pastor and her parents about the concern of her meeting men online and showing them the kid's pictures?

I have thought about that, but then she will know I been snooping around and have her phone passcode.

How to get throw someone when it's about her. So far she has shut everyone out that's not on her side.
Like Dr. Harley described she got a bottom on a ejection chair so anyone that does not agree with her gets launched.

Well tonight was intresting, my step daughter woke me up and told me her mom was smoking by her car which is right in front of my step daughter window.
Anyway my step daughter was mad after getting me up ran outside and said a few words to her mom and slapped the cigarette out of her hand.

What the heck? I never knew she ever smoked, her excuse is she was having a smoke because she is stressed out.

Is my WW melting down? I wish this made all made since.

Talking to my WW all she can bring up is how I don't listen. It's like talking in circles, I am trying really hard to spend time with her. It seems to go no were.

I talked to Joyce Harley this morning.
She said let the divorce take it course, if she was not come around yet she a lost cause right now. She also said to save myself and the kids, it's up to me to keep up with plan A if it's just to much of a open wound go into plan B.

I have not given up hope yet I am going to continue to pray for her.
I am going through a book by Timothy Keller called "Prayer" so I can learn how to be more effective.
It's a fight about her soul, maybe in the future she will come back.
Till then it will be me and the kids, I don't this it will ever be worth find anyone to married with the stats Doc Harley says about blended family's. And two affairs in my life.
I'll leave the door open for her if I can.
I'll be around.

God Bless

Did you talk or communicate with Dr. Harley at all?

No my last talk was just with Joyce Harley.

I had a interview with CPS today, I think it went ok. Just told the truth and my situation and my feelings. Thy say thy don't do anything unless thy see immediate danger and provide help and counseling. But if there is another call things get moved up.

I hope I did the right thing in showing photos the case worker what my WW mother did to my step daughters arm a few Saturdays ago.
I told the case worker I feel between a rock and a hard places with the way things are right now.

Ron, so glad you found a prayer resource!

I don't want to jump the gun here, I am looking for some advice.
Yesterday day, on Saturday we finally did some stuff as a family. The kids acted up little but my WW did not get so upset, Big plus there.

We had nice long talk about the kids and thanksgiving plans. I helped her with her projects. To bad she ran off late that night to meet coworkers see said.

I did get a hug before she left and this morning.

When might talk about PoJA, and see if I can get some ahead and some love units flowing?

You're jumping the gun here -- she still has a dating profile and is meeting men online, right? Talking about POJA is not going to work right now.

Honestly, reading through your recent posts, I think you need to be heading for Plan B.

Well I was hoping. Should I go into plan B even if I can keep up plan A?

And if it's time to do plan B whens a good time when the court says she has to move or after the divorce is final?

Should I bother with a plan B letter?

She's a serial cheater, actively trolling for action.
You've been in Plan A since June -- that's 6 months! You've exposed, and Plan A'd, but she is still trolling, with men who are likely pedophiles.

You should focus on your children now.

When will the divorce be final?

Pablo's MB thread

If you have time, you might be able to get some insight and encouragement from this old thread, by a man whose wife was deliberately targeted by a pedophile hoping for access to her young daughter.

tl

Right know unknown, the case with the step daughter is going ahead of the divorce.

My lawyer is getting temp orders together and we will be going down that route soon.

If I were you, I would push the divorce forward and fight to get full custody. You could stay in Plan A until the divorce is final, if you are not having physical or emotional problems. But I would only do the Plan A with the focus that you are doing it so that you could stay and keep an eye on your kids -- You've been at this awhile, and being that she's a serial cheater who is trolling, I do not see this turning around.

You might also email Dr. Harley with the updates about her being a serial cheater and seek further advice from him. They like to be kept updated on people who have called or written in to the show.

I did email Joyce Harley and she called me, i was surprised she just commented whats going on and did not pass it do Dr. Harley and get his input.

What she said was to let the divorce go though and go into plan B, save me and the kids and even have written into the divorce decree my WW is not to come around me.

I have a question about my Step-Daughter, I am trying to get defacto parentage over her.

I know she is 10 and does not really know what she wants 100%, right know she wants me to fight for her. is she going to appreciate when she gets older in life that i tried wither i win or not?

I guess i want to know that i am not being selfish.
its been on my mind the last few days, looking at myself and were i have been. I have always wished for a father that was there for me.

My bio father was never around, my step farther adopted me and my sister. My adopted father just was not there for me and was abusive.

So is this defacto parent going to make a difference in her life and am i really giving her something she wants? I know girls are different.

I hope i made since,

Ron your stepdaughter will thank you for the rest of her life for fighting for custody of her her. What you are doing is wonderful. I cannot imagine how much trauma this little girl must have gone through already. Parenting is about making your child feel safe.

Just tell her that you will never keep her from seeing her mother whenever she wants to. That you will never make her have to choose between you.

Perfect.

Thanks, I hope I made since. I have hard enough time getting what I want on paper and right know it's harder.

I may not get custody, but I'll at least remain a part of her life. And if her mom keeps doing what she is doing I'll have a shot at custody.

My WW made a appointment with a Gynecologist and said it's just a checkup she has to do and not much else.
I don't remember her ever visiting until she was pregnant.

Any ideas?

She's getting tested for STDs. She may be getting birth control. She may think she's pregnant.

She wants to get a prescription for birth control, maybe getting checked for some kind of STD, could be a consult for abortion.

You are right to be suspicious.

My ex suddenly had to get put on birth control(i had a vasectomy 12 years earlier), "to regulate" her period and got a prescription for a Herpes med. (she tried to hide it)
She will deny everything and lie, unfortunately with HIPPA laws you have no way of finding out unless she tells you or you get a bill somehow. Maybe call the Dr. she is going to and have the bill forwarded to a PO Box you set up. Call your pharmacy immediately after appointment and ask them if a prescription is ready to pick up.
Remember waywards are often stupid and never close all loose ends.

I know she got back on birth control about a month ago. I know this for two reasons one it's on her calendar and two the wrapper was in the garbage, Nuvaring I think. I don't pay much attention to what she uses. She was on before we had kids.
About the only thing I know is when we left (I came to watch the kids) is there I don't have to that again for 5 years.

But I am still suspicious of other activities.

Your right WW are really horrible at covering there tracks. I just need time and I'll uncover her tracks.

I just got the paper work for temp orders and my declaration, boy he sure took some liberties in there. And it sounds down right mean. So when I get home I'll have to go over it in detail

Declarations will always indicate every possible transgression and nastiness that can be drummed up to make the other party look bad.
Usually, testimony and how you present yourself along with documented actions should weigh more with the judge, but.....ya just never know.

I just want the discovery to be factually, stretching the truth I think is going a bit far.I don't like playing unfair. It may not win points, but it's keeps my conscience clear.

I guess WW have no filter, my step daughter was telling her mom was on the phone telling someone she was not married and has two kids, why two not sure cus there three.
And there are no guns in the house, another lie I own several guns all but one is locked and the ammo and keys are locked in another location.

I don't know the while story, but I heard enough about it to see red flags.

You really can't make this stuff up its so crazy and know I have a fear someone might show up unwanted.

Quick caution on guns in the house. When dealing with a crazy wayward, get them out of the house. They will be used against you by the wayward, no matter how pro gun. Either in the form of a PO/RO saying you threatened violence with a gun, or god forbid you get shot in a fit of rage (rage is what happens when an addict loses the crack).
I speak from experience, it is a simple precaution to take now.

Even if she has no access to the safe and the gun lock keys inside the safe?

I can get into that gun cabinet, easy peasy. Just takes the right power tool. You should have it removed.

DO NOT take the risk. My ex made up all sorts of lies that i had illegal guns, made threats, scared for her safety.

Get a friend to keep them, rent a locker somewhere for awhile, why risk it.

Listen to this. ^^^^

Will do, I'll find a new home for them while this going on.

I am waiting for the new fall out of the temp orders that was enter today, thus shall be interesting. Temp orders were entered today, but I'll have to wait a week or two because of the court holidays to see what the judge says.

Oh what fun life is. At least it should be a quite weekend, my WW desided to go away for the weekend. I'll have fun with the kids and right know thy have more fun when my WW is away.

The guns are with a friends got that done over the weekend.

Something my WW said just will not leave my mind. My WW wants me to stop getting in the way of her and her daughters relationship. I guess she things I am telling her all kinds of bad stuff. I explained to my WW I was trying to help her daughter work through her anger so she does not chase down her mother with a baseball bat. Which she said she wanted too. So the statement my WW said after that was well if that's the case you keep the kids and I'll leave.

Is she really going to give up her family and create a rift in her relationship with the kids?

Oh and listening to Doc. Harley I really believe my WW is a renter and I am dealing with the Gen X belief that marriage is not for life.

I am just sad what people believe about marriage now that my eyes are open with marriage builders.

Yes it happens. Plus your wayward is trying to play some kind of martyr game, don't play it with her. She needs to deal with her own suckage that she created.

My ex is 10 years older than your wayward at DDay time.
She walked away from 2 of her 3 kids aged 13 and 15 to move 6 states away to where her affair partner was.

Now 3.5 years since the move and 5 years since dday, those 2 kids won't have anything to do with her, despite her recent attempts.
Mostly because she won't accept responsibility for her choices.

I believe many waywards get stuck in the affair or affair mindset, and have to keep living the lie, or it was all for absolutely nothing. (fear and pride get in their way)

That's crazy, family means the world to me and there is not any I would not do for my family. When the rubber meet the road we have God and family, and maybe if we are lucky a friend.

I am not sure off base I am, but i believe kids are not as forgiving as adults when it comes to certain things.

I am a forgiving guy, but I write off my bio father and my adopted father, I gave up trying to reach out. I am still open if thy wanted to fix things. My bio father who knows were he is anymore, and my adopted father passed away just over year ago.

Well happy thanksgiving to everyone, even in these hard times count the blessings you do have.

What do you guys do about the huge feeling of loneliness that seems to have come over me?

And two I guess my WW now has sex with anyone that will happens to be around. My snooping has 1 confirmed and 2 I am pretty sure happed. 1 is with a guy that has a partner from the food bank she volunteers at and the other two guys from work.

My step daughter said her mom said something about sex in the car, which my step daughter said she just tuned out after that.

My WW tells every one she has no partner and is not married.

I am so saddened and sick at the same time. And this is spilling over to the kids.

I away I am glad she will soon to be gone, and peace will come back into this house

Oh and another question how to handle kids in plan B? I want to start making plans and get ready for that.

At this point I wish I could take the kids and shelf them from my WW, all this unhealthy behavior is not good for them.
It will be great if she just walks away from them like she hinted at.

I am guessing my WW is still in the fog just by the way she talked to theses guys.
Oh how I been praying for a guy like you to come into my life. My guess she will stay this way for a long time.

Have you read this?

How to Plan B Correctly

Have you exposed these to the OMs partners/BWs?

No, I just found out last night and too I am not sure who the partner is.I have a pretty good idea who the partner is, but he's does not list who on hia Facebook. The two from her work I need to get names and track them down.

I am almost thinking of putting my WW on the cheaters list good idea or no?

And at this point will it really matter?

Well that's not going to much good with this guy he's trying to get a threesum going from the looks of things.

And no more contact from the OM it looks like, just alot of guys off dating sites.

I give up, I pray I keep the kids and it will be just us.

Take Screen Shots of every Dating Site she has a profile on and any self incriminating comments she makes.

LTL

And what do I do with this info?

She may put more than her foot in her mouth in her arousing profile and follow up comments.

It could come in Very handy during a Child Custody and amount of Parentage Time allowed by a Judge, while Everything that You do points out how dedicated you are too the Family Ideals and putting the Best Interest of your Children at the forefront.

LTL

Thanks, I never thought about it like that.

I am really thanks that God had me run into MB an the help I have gotten from everyone. It's the little things that will go along ways.

I still can't wrap my head around what she is doing and why find a guy to jump onto as soon as she can. At least I have some kind of understanding.

My WW after all this time has taken me up of going out to dinner, I really have mixed feeling so about this now.

Over Thanksgiving weekend it really felt like My WW was more interested in here phone and not really hiding want she was doing that well. And this taking off at night and coming home at 2 am or so is still going on.
At least the kids had fun.

Keep praying for me and the family, the last couple of days it seems I hit a string of bad luck. I am off to see about a tooth extraction that broke yesterday.

How are the Plan B preparations coming along?

Right know biggest hurdle assigning a mediator. Everyone one I know has busy lives and thy don't live close. I was thinking of asking the neighbor, but thy all have odd hours answer I am not sure I want to put them in that situation.

Just a update,My lawyer filed temp orders yesterday and the hearing is in a few weeks.
What a tough thing to do, so far I have not heard any fallout from my WW.

It really saddens me, that a mother can thing she can go off running around like my WW is doing.
My step D and I had changed family night from Friday nights to Sunday nights to accommodate my WW work schedule. Last night my WW said I am going to see a movie see you guys later which really upset my step D.

I wish I could help my step D more she is fighting to keep her mom and get undivided attention.

I am trying to spend time with all the kids and have fun together and pray.

A old friend of mine said he would be willing to be a IM for me, I wish he was closer I guess 15 mins is not horrible.

Looks like my WW is going to play dirty with custody.
Any recommendations how to deal with that?

Do you have a bulldog of a lawyer that will fight for you?

I sure hope so, there is not alot lot of lawyers in my county. The call backs of got said I had not case answer mothers always wins.
The one I picked it laid down the while case and I was trying to save the marrage. He was quite agreeable and every one else in the firm. And he starting putting things in place so we has a head start, even removing the one judge from hearing the case.
As far as bulldog not sure, does he seems to have things in order yes.
I know I had him tone down the affidavit, there was a lot of stretching of truth I was not comfortable with.

Monday was a bittersweet day for me. I went to court for temp orders.

I still wish to fix things between us, but she got a new bf so there goes hope there.

As for me and the kids, my WW has to be out on the 1st of Feb, temporary the step daughter get to be included in the parenting plan and the kids get spend nights with me as the court wants to minimize the time that's with the sitter.
So far it looks good. Thanks for all the prayers and God will working in this situation and keeping part of the family together with me.

I was really surprised my WW did not show up to court just her lawer. I am guessing that's going to be bad for her in the long run.

Good morning to everyone,

Well my WW moved out. Now my place has a spirit of peace now, it really feels like a bad spiritual influence has left.

The kids are happy, I hope it stays this way going forward. I am sadden that my WW did not make any attempt to say good night or anything like that to the kids. She sent two texts to the oldest DD to her phone. Basically saying I'll see you tomorrow and be ready to do school.

My WW did make a attempt to have me drop off the kids off in the morning. I told her that's not what the judge ordered. I got a smart comment back and the kids better be fed and ready. Not sure what that was about.

Thanks for everyone's prayers and advice.
And two everyone going through this stay strong and remember Yeshua is there for you always.