My husband and I have been married for almost 9 years. We have a six year old son. I was my husband's first serious relationship so he was a little difficult specially in the beginning, he was controlling, critical etc. After a few years, maybe 3 or 4 he had improved a lot, he wasn't as critical and judgemental. But still hard to talk to. A few times he made scenes in front of other people including his friends which made him look like a total [censored]. I wrongfully took this opportunity to express to others how he treated me at home. Several years ago one of his closest friends witnessed a situation and talked to me about it saying he didn't respect him for the way he treated me. That turned into texting and sending private fb messages. Always talking about my husband and how unhappy I was and it turned into a close friendship with someone i felt I could talk too. I didn't know it at the time but I was having an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR. I didn't realize until later how wrong that was. Eventually my husband, tired of feeling like something was going on, decided to go through my Facebook and phone text records and confronted me with the affair. At first I denied it because I didn't consider it an affair but eventually I realized what I had done and how much I had hurt me because I was hanging on to old resentment. The truth is he has never done anything like that to me. He told me about this website and that he decided to forgive and rebuild our marriage. Although the ER was long over by then to him it was new and he was still very hurt, IS still very hurt.
We read the website, we followed the steps. There was exposure, a polygraph which I passed, I tell him every move I make throughout the day and we've tried to spend as much time together as we can.
The issue is that I can feel the hatred and resentment, I can see that he wants to move on and start over but he cannot. Every conversation we have ends up being about the affair, how selfish I was, how I stepped all over him etc. He goes from sad and hurt to angry. He calls me a b***h and a piece of sh** he accuses me of trying to manipulate him if I disagree with something. If I am having a bad day or stressful day he assumes I must be cheating on him. I feel like for every step forward we take two backwards.
I am not perfect, I screwed up. I'm facing parts of me I've always denied. I wish I could go back in time and do things differently but I can't. I don't know what to do anymore. I've tried everything. If I tell him the truth when he asks how I feel about something he gets angry and tells me I'm trying to manipulate me. If I say nothing is wrong he tells me I'm lying and I haven't changed. He says he wants to start from scratch, no preconceptions, new life and on the other hand he tells me I will do what he tells me to do and he will do what he wants to do because I carry no weight in this marriage any more. What else can I do? Please help.
I know this is probably the spot for the victims of the affair to seek advice and not the guilty party and some of you are probably booing me. I apologize but I thought maybe I could get some insight on what my husband is going through and how to get to him.
Hi allgood, welcome to Marriage Builders. A few questions:
1. when did your husband find out? When did the affair end?
2. have you ended all contract with the OM? Is he anywhere CLOSE to you all?
3. is the OM married and if so, does his wife know?
When was your LAST contact with the OM?
The EA happened back in 2007 to 2009. I stopped talking to him at that time. He works and was already working out of state at this point. After two years of not talking to him he sent me a message in 2011 saying he missed us being friends and talking. I told him he was my husband's friend and not mine and we should keep it that way but somehow he found his way back in just by always asking how I was doing. I work where he banks so ocationally I would get a text requesting help with something. He is married and I have no idea if his wife knows but my husband told me they've both strayed. The last time I spoke to him was last December when he sent me a message after visiting my husband telling me he wished he could have seen me too. I told my husband about this message when the affair was out and I to!d him I thought it was wrong of him to do that. My husband found out about four months ago
I have stopped talking to him,his whole family and every person I met through them
Thanks, all good. Will your husband come here? One of the biggest problems I see is that the OM's wife doesn't know what has happened. Additionally, the OM can still contact you at will so your H is not safe. The door is wide open for a resumption.
We read the website, we followed the steps. There was exposure, a polygraph which I passed, I tell him every move I make throughout the day and we've tried to spend as much time together as we can.
When you say there was exposure, what does that mean exactly? Who was told? If the man's wife was not told, that was not really exposure.
And what questions were on your polygraph?
I have gotten transferred to a different department so I don't help the public anymore with their accounts. He hasn't tried to contact me since he needed help with a loan and after letting my husband and everyone at work know, I said someone would call him. I think he realized I wasn't going to talk to him.
I offered my husband to send a letter to his wife but he told me it wasn't necessary because she would not care anyway. Should I still do that?
We told our families, our friends and coworkers. Some of the questions were if I had had physical contact with anyone during our marriage, if I ever seriously considered cheating on him, if I had had physical contact with the om and if I had had attraction to the OM
I even posted it on fb for everyone to see because my husband thought I still wasn't admitting it internally.
I have gotten transferred to a different department so I don't help the public anymore with their accounts. He hasn't tried to contact me since he needed help with a loan and after letting my husband and everyone at work know, I said someone would call him. I think he realized I wasn't going to talk to him.
I offered my husband to send a letter to his wife but he told me it wasn't necessary because she would not care anyway. Should I still do that?
I would ask your husband to contact her and give her the evidence of the affair. That will help ensure that he doesn't contact you again with 2 people watching on both ends.
I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program outlined there. Here is the checklist. Can you look this over and tell us which ones you have done?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
p.s. it really is important to just delete face book. An blocked person can be unblocked in 2 seconds. It also leaves you free to look at the OM's page, a trigger.
p.s. it really is important to just delete face book. An blocked person can be unblocked in 2 seconds. It also leaves you free to look at the OM's page, a trigger.
And all other social media as well, such as Instagram. I would also ask your husband to put controls on your computer to block access to facebook and instagram (as well as instagram viewers). You can also have him block the OM's name as a search term. This sounds extreme, but it is easy to get a facebook dummy account (even if you would NEVER do this) and instagram can be viewed from anywhere. Even if you would never look again, or would never contact again. These measures would make your husband feel safer and would cost you nothing if you are serious and willing to do them.
Itext him every day when I'm leaving work and we go everywhere else together. I feel like his resentment keeps getting in the way. Like he wants to fix things but he is too hurt. It feels like he's looking for revenge somehow. And I understand it but wen keep having these ups and downs. We are both emotionally drained. There is nothing more important to me than my family and I can't seem to find a way to show him. I've asked him to put a GPS in my car and to call me at work every day. I don't talk to any of his friends and I only spend time with his sister on the weekends.
I, too, think your husband needs to post here and get help for his resentment.
ETA: He should start his own thread.
Itext him every day when I'm leaving work and we go everywhere else together. I feel like his resentment keeps getting in the way. Like he wants to fix things but he is too hurt. It feels like he's looking for revenge somehow. And I understand it but wen keep having these ups and downs. We are both emotionally drained. There is nothing more important to me than my family and I can't seem to find a way to show him. I've asked him to put a GPS in my car and to call me at work every day. I don't talk to any of his friends and I only spend time with his sister on the weekends.
Do you understand that your husband has received a huge traumatic shock? He has been betrayed in the worst possible way. And to add insult to injury this deceit went on for years. I would try and be a little more compassionate. We can help him manage his emotions, but you need to cool it.
I am not perfect, I screwed up. I'm facing parts of me I've always denied. I wish I could go back in time and do things differently but I can't. I don't know what to do anymore.
One thing I would suggest is to stop making defensive, immature statements like the above. "I am not perfect" makes it sound like you don't take accountability. No one is perfect, but not everyone betrays their spouse. When you say you "are not perfect" it sounds like you are making excuses.
So I would eliminate defensive language that gives the impression that you are not accountable. It will make him nervous and fuel his anger and resentment.
How many years did you actively lie to him about this affair? How long was he asking about it and you denied it?
Can you answer this?
I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program outlined there. Here is the checklist. Can you look this over and tell us which ones you have done?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
The last time I spoke to him was last December when he sent me a message after visiting my husband telling me he wished he could have seen me too. I told my husband about this message when the affair was out and I to!d him I thought it was wrong of him to do that. My husband found out about four months ago
Any contact like this is going to keep your husband triggered.
Does the OM visit your husband often?Okay, I see now that the visit was before your husband knew about the affair. Was he a friend of your husband's?
So, has there been any contact since your husband found out about the affair? Did you send the No Contact letter?
The EA happened back in 2007 to 2009.
Okay, in reality, the EA didn't end until your last contact in December. Every time he contacts you, the EA might as well still be on.
Contact did not end in 2009.
Also, keep in mind that your husband just found out -- it may be old news for you, but this is a fresh wound for him. You have lied to him for years, which just makes it worse.
Is your husband wanting to keep this man as a friend?
How does OM know your husband?
You need a new job.
You may need to move, as well.
Prisca, no he doesn't. He lives in another state. They hadn't seen each other in years and now they don't talk.
MelodyLane, what exactly do you mean by "cool it". I am aware of the shock my husband is in and the fact that I caused it. I can never forgive myself for that. I thought this was a forum to get help not to be attacked. I am not making any excuses for what I've done and when I said I'm not perfect I was referring to the fact that I don't always know what to do to help him heal. Even if he decides our marriage can't be salvaged he needs to heal.
I denied it because I didn't consider it for what it was and because I erased it from my memory like it never happened. But I take responsibility for what I've done and it was a huge shock for me too to come to grips with the fact that the one who should love him betrayed him. I have no excuse I don't claim to. I simply wanted some guidance
No he has decided not to be friends with him anymore.
They met at work years ago.
Yes we are going to be moving closer to my husband's work. Totally different city. And start all over. I will have to get another job.
MelodyLane, what exactly do you mean by "cool it". I am aware of the shock my husband is in and the fact that I caused it. I can never forgive myself for that. I thought this was a forum to get help not to be attacked. I am not making any excuses for what I've done and when I said I'm not perfect I was referring to the fact that I don't always know what to do to help him heal. Even if he decides our marriage can't be salvaged he needs to heal.
You have not been attacked. What you need to do is stop pushing your husband to get over it. No one gets over an affair in 4 months, so you need to cool it. Back off and show some compassion. Stop saying things like "I'm not perfect." That only makes things worse.
No contact since then and my husband didn't want me to send a letter. He said he would handle it.
I understand. He feels like every day that I didn't tell him was a lie. I would too.
I understand. He feels like every day that I didn't tell him was a lie. I would too.
Please use the "quote" function so we can follow your replies without having to guess which post you are replying to.
He feels like every day that I didn't tell him was a lie.
And he's right. You have lied about this relationship for years, which only makes the affair worse.
Will the two of you get the book Surviving and Affair and read through it together?
Will you go through the checklist and tell us what has been down and what hasn't?
Please answer this.
Can you answer this?
I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program outlined there. Here is the checklist. Can you look this over and tell us which ones you have done?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
He feels like every day that I didn't tell him was a lie.
And he's right. You have lied about this relationship for years, which only makes the affair worse.
Will the two of you get the book Surviving and Affair and read through it together?
Will you go through the checklist and tell us what has been down and what hasn't?
We don't have that book but I am going to get it if you think it will help. I ordered fall in Love Stay in Love.
I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program outlined there. Here is the checklist. Can you look this over and tell us which ones you have done?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
__x___The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
__x___The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
MY HUSBAND DIDN'T WANT ME DOING THIS.
__x__The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
__X___Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
I HAVE NOT CHANGED MY PHONE NUMBER BUT MY HUSBAND GOES THROUGH IT__x___Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
WE'VE ALWAYS HAD SEPARATE ACCOUNT BUT HE HAS ACCESS TO MY BANKING__x__Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
WE ARE DOING THIS. LOOKING FOR A PLACE.__x___Avoid overnight separation.
__x___Allow technical accountability.
__x___ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
He hasn't talked to me for two days. We went out for dinner the other day and he brought up moving again. Although I am willing to do it, I don't like big cities and I hate relocating my son. And since I have to be open and honest at ALL times, I told him how I felt. He got very upset and said he needed to do things for himself now because I've been selfish. Then he called me names (he has a habit of doing that, always has) At this point I didn't want to continue arguing so I got up and left. I started walking home (which is about 10 miles away) When he left the restaurant he stopped just to say FU and kept driving.
I wasn't angry or mad or anything, just frustrated because I can't seem to communicate properly and no matter what I do, I do it wrong. I realize now I should have stayed and dealt with his reaction instead of walking away. Now he hasn't talked to me for two days. I tried texting him but he won't reply, it's like we are two strangers. I miss my husband and I am at a loss on how to deal with his pain. I have to listen to the giver and not the taker and act accordingly. Is there a BH husband out there who can advise me?
allgoodthings,
Was the OM ever exposed to OMW or his GF, did your BH ever confront the OM?
Gamma
1. Change your phone number.
2. Don't move to a big city. Find a location you are both happy with. Giving your husband Just Compensation does not mean sacrificing and moving somewhere you will hate. You do need to move, but you need to move somewhere you can be happy.
3. Realize that although you have caused him great pain, his angry outbursts are HIS problem to solve and you do not need to put up with them. Do not sit around while he calls you names. Do not engage in his arguments. Walk away if he blows up at you and do not try to engage him. If your marriage is going to recover, he is going to have to get this anger problem under control.
4. Have you introduced him to this program? This program will help both of you heal, and will give both of you a marriage more wonderful than you ever dreamed of. This is how you need to help him deal with his pain. Show him the program, and how it will help you give him Just Compensation for what you did.
You can purchase "Surviving an Affair" on
amazon.com and download it today. You need this book more than "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" right now.
Have you read about Just Compensation? This is what Marriage Builders will teach you to give to your husband to compensate for the pain you've caused.
Just Compensation:
1. Ending all contact with the affair partner for life
Examples: NC letter, phone number changed, email changed ...
2. Removing the conditions that led to the affair (Extraordinary Precautions).
Examples: Facebook shutdown, Radical Honesty (no secret second life), job change, no more nights apart ...
3. Creating a romantic relationship using Marriage Builders concepts.
Examples: Eliminate Lovebusters, POJA, PORH, meet EN, UA time each week ...
allgoodthings,
Was the OM ever exposed to OMW or his GF, did your BH ever confront the OM?
Gamma
No, he was not exposed to OMW. And my husband did not confront the OM. I don't know why but he hasn't.
1. Change your phone number.
2. Don't move to a big city. Find a location you are both happy with. Giving your husband Just Compensation does not mean sacrificing and moving somewhere you will hate. You do need to move, but you need to move somewhere you can be happy.
3. Realize that although you have caused him great pain, his angry outbursts are HIS problem to solve and you do not need to put up with them. Do not sit around while he calls you names. Do not engage in his arguments. Walk away if he blows up at you and do not try to engage him. If your marriage is going to recover, he is going to have to get this anger problem under control.
4. Have you introduced him to this program? This program will help both of you heal, and will give both of you a marriage more wonderful than you ever dreamed of. This is how you need to help him deal with his pain. Show him the program, and how it will help you give him Just Compensation for what you did.
Thank you Prisca. Unfortunately, he has been commuting for years and he's tired. He promised he would find a place in the surrounding areas outside the city, but we may have to rent something in the meantime. I trust him explicitly but I am afraid he might rush into something we won't be happy with.
He had gotten a lot better about his anger outbursts but they seem to be coming back. I've tried different tactics to deal with that and he was understanding of the fact that I will walk away when he insults me. He seems to be losing patience.
He is the one who found this website and introduce me to the program. At first I was reluctant but I followed everything. I even filled out some of the questionnaires. Now he seems to have stopped reading it. I am afraid he might feel forgiving wasn't the right decision, I don't know.
This program is not about forgiving, it's about Just Compensation. There is a huge difference.
See if he'll sign up to post.
allgoodthings,
You wrote, The last time I spoke to him was last December when he sent me a message after visiting my husband telling me he wished he could have seen me too.
Did your H know about your EA at that time? When did your H find out? It sounds like his discovery is recent. Your H should not be friends with OM anymore, even seeing OM will trigger your BH.
I think you understand that part of your BHs problem is that this was a double betrayal his wife and friend.
BH may also feel stupid for allowing it to happen and misjudging his friends character.
Gamma
Why won't you change your phone number so OM can't contact you again.
Please read this
What is Just Compensation?
allgoodthings,
You wrote, The last time I spoke to him was last December when he sent me a message after visiting my husband telling me he wished he could have seen me too.
Did your H know about your EA at that time? When did your H find out? It sounds like his discovery is recent. Your H should not be friends with OM anymore, even seeing OM will trigger your BH.
I think you understand that part of your BHs problem is that this was a double betrayal his wife and friend.
BH may also feel stupid for allowing it to happen and misjudging his friends character.
Gamma
No, he didn't know at the time, he found out a little later. They are not friends anymore. And I think he knew his friend's character, he just didn't think I'd be so stupid.
allgood,
Ok so it's been a little more than 6 months since your last contact, it normally takes at least 2 years for the betrayed spouse to recover, with time thrown in for details. Your BH is in the early stages still.
How far away does the OM live?
Since the OM does not live far away, from what you wrote, your BH may be having a very difficult time believing it was not physical.
Gamma
allgood,
Understand that your recovery clock may have started much earlier than your BHs. You've come out of the fog and are ready to start life again at the same time your BH is descending into hell.
Gamma
allgood,
Ok so it's been a little more than 6 months since your last contact, it normally takes at least 2 years for the betrayed spouse to recover, with time thrown in for details. Your BH is in the early stages still.
How far away does the OM live?
Since the OM does not live far away, from what you wrote, your BH may be having a very difficult time believing it was not physical.
Gamma
Yes. The OM works out of state and then comes back for a few months. He lives about an hour away. It would be logistically very difficult for me to see him and it's not like I want to. My H is convinced it was physical too and I can't convince him it was not. He says he doesn't believe anything I say, even though I took a polygraph which was very thorough and I was honest. He has a friend who keeps telling him I'm not worth it and he should leave and I think he may have also convinced him that I probably had more affairs and slept with other men. It's not true. I've been lying to him and protecting myself but when I took that polygraph I was prepared to answer everything truthfully no matter the consequence. He says I've killed the love and only would consider staying together for the sake of our son. I feel like I want to die.
He says I need to get on this forum and do everything I'm supposed to do. Follow all the steps and leave the old me behind. I deleted my Facebook page today but I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.
I tried but we have a family plan and my BH is the primary so he has to be with me.
Can you get on to the online account and request the change?
Would your husband be willing to start his own thread?
I don't know the password but I told my husband and he says he's not worried about that.
Would your husband be willing to start his own thread?
I'm sure he would. He's in a dark place right now. He's dealing with being lied to for 6 years and he sees the person that I am or was. I don't know anymore. I don't think he's worried about the OM contacting me anymore he's dealing with the deceit and doesn't believe anything I say. He wants to see action, an actaul change in my behavior. He wants to see more accountability, honesty and humbleness. He wants me to admit to myself that although I may have not realized it at first what I did wasn't innocent and was on purpose. I know it started as an innocent friendship, someone to listen and nothing more but at some point I realized it was wrong and I continued to do it. I convinced myself he deserved it for the way he had been in the past although by then he had changed immensely. I harbored resentment and I used it as fuel to do things I knew I shouldn't have been doing. He didn't deserve it and he has never done anything like that to me.
I struggle with the feeling that everything he asks of me is a demand to exert control over me or to punish me and I get very defensive because I feel we can't recover if we keep going down that road. I walk away when the conversation turns unpleasant for me instead of finding a way to apeace him. And by the time I realize it it's to late, I've already pushed him over the edge.
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I struggle with the feeling that everything he asks of me is a demand to exert control over me or to punish me and I get very defensive because I feel we can't recover if we keep going down that road. I walk away when the conversation turns unpleasant for me instead of finding a way to apeace him. And by the time I realize it it's to late, I've already pushed him over the edge.
allgood, While you shouldn't tolerate abuse, a lot of the problem stems from your defensiveness and your tendency to blame your husband. For example, in your initial post, you started off citing his wrongs and carefully sequed into your affair. The affair "innocently" started because you were talking about your husbands bad behavior to others. You do a lot of qualifying and justifying and that can only fuel your husbands anger. You need to stop doing that. For instance, in the above post you said:
I know it started as an innocent friendship, someone to listen and nothing more but at some point I realized it was wrong and I continued to do it.
There is nothing "innocent" about a married woman having personal conversations with a married man about her husband. That is inappropriate behavior for a married woman. Surely you can recognize now that this is how affairs begin?
My suggestion to you is to stop qualifying, justifying and defending. I know you carefully couch your justifications with "I know it was wrong" but saying that does not negate the fact that you just justified the unjustifiable. And more importantly, people who are truly sorry, don't tend to cite the bad behavior of OTHERS.
I sense that you mean well but you have to understand that you have operated with a wayward mind for 6 years. It won't go away overnight. But you can start by eliminating all the defensiveness, justifications and rationalizations. That is not helping your husband recover.
I struggle with the feeling that everything he asks of me is a demand to exert control over me or to punish me and I get very defensive because I feel we can't recover if we keep going down that road.
What specifically is he asking of you that is "controlling?"
You are absolutely right. I've operated under justifications and defended my actions through excuses. I didn't want to believe what a piece of s I was being. There are no excuses I acted inappropriately and selfishly. He's a protecting caring and loving husband. I should have communicated my feelings rather that doing what I did. He used to be my best friend and I want that back. My pride and inability to think about feelings other than mine put us where we are now and it is my responsibility to fix it.
What do you see as controlling?
Have you signed up for the coaching program?
you asked
What specifically is he asking of you that is "controlling?"
When he asked me how I felt about moving I told him I will move but I also expressed my reservations. Big city, starting all over at a new job, etc.
His words where that this marriage will be how he wants it to be. I can't demand anything or disagree with anything because from now on he will do what he wants and I will do what he tells me. There is no room for negotiation.
Basically every time I disagree with something he brings up the affair and how I've been and I have no right to have my way.
I totally understand how he feels. But if we are going to follow this program we both have to make concerted efforts. Every conversation ends up about the affair, the lies and that I'm a b*** and a piece of s****
He says he forgives me but things are going to be his way.
He's probably right. They should have been his way. I violated his trust and with that any privileged.
Have you signed up for the coaching program?
No I haven't. How do I do that?
Tell your husband that you want to change numbers so that the OM isn't able to contact you again.
you asked
What specifically is he asking of you that is "controlling?"
When he asked me how I felt about moving I told him I will move but I also expressed my reservations. Big city, starting all over at a new job, etc.
His words where that this marriage will be how he wants it to be. I can't demand anything or disagree with anything because from now on he will do what he wants and I will do what he tells me. There is no room for negotiation.
Basically every time I disagree with something he brings up the affair and how I've been and I have no right to have my way.
I totally understand how he feels. But if we are going to follow this program we both have to make concerted efforts. Every conversation ends up about the affair, the lies and that I'm a b*** and a piece of s****
He says he forgives me but things are going to be his way.
He's probably right. They should have been his way. I violated his trust and with that any privileged.
That isn't Marriage Builders.
Read the basic concepts and the articles (first on how affairs should end, then the others).
His words where that this marriage will be how he wants it to be. I can't demand anything or disagree with anything because from now on he will do what he wants and I will do what he tells me. There is no room for negotiation.
That won't work. And I hope you don't give into that, because it will make things worse. Is he trying to drive you away? Sounds like it to me..
Marriage builders is about creating a marriage that makes both partners happy And protects both from the possibility of an affair.
It would help your marriage greatly to do the coaching program, because what y'all are doing isn't marriage builders.
Click the Coaching Center tab at the top to learn about the program. Its is a class plus coaching.
I just spent hours reading the whole thing and making notes. It helped me recognize some of the behaviors I have to change and address.
Good, the next step is getting the book, Surviving An Affair.
I will order that right now.
He says I need to get on this forum and do everything I'm supposed to do. Follow all the steps and leave the old me behind. I deleted my Facebook page today but I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.
This program takes two. If he won't do his part, then this marriage cannot be saved and you are better off moving on without him.
Is he willing to work the program with you?
I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.
By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.
What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.
I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"
What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."
To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."
My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.
Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.
From here:
Coping with Infidelity: Part 4 Overcoming ResentmentWill your husband
join you in a program of recovery?
He's probably right. They should have been his way. I violated his trust and with that any privileged.
Have you read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts? If you read about the Giver and the Taker, you will see why this can't work. If you let your Giver be in control like this, eventually your Taker will wake up hopping mad and will urge you to hurt him.
So if your goal is to make him happy, this is not the way to do it.
Are you listening to the Marriage Builders radio show, daily?
I just downloaded the app.
The problem is that my taker is the one who's been in charge all this time. And keeps getting in the way. I haven't been listening to the giver.
I just downloaded the app.
The problem is that my taker is the one who's been in charge all this time. And keeps getting in the way. I haven't been listening to the giver.
Have you read the Basic Concepts? Have you read the page about the Giver and the Taker?
This is not a subject where you want to go by what you think - read what Dr. Harley says about it.
Here's the deal: inside of you are both the Giver and the Taker. Both of them give you a stream of ideas.
The ideas the Taker gives you follow this rule:
"Do whatever makes allgoodthings2 happy, even if it makes other people unhappy."
The ideas the Giver gives you follow this rule:
"Do whatever makes other people happy, even if it makes allgoodthings2 unhappy."
In between, listening to both of these streams of ideas, is you, allgoodthings2.
Between those three things:
* Giver
* Taker
* allgoodthings2
Which one of the three do you think we want in control?
allgoodthings2 needs to listen to the ideas offered by the Giver and Taker, and needs to filter out a lot of them. You need to filter out the ideas that make your Giver unhappy. But you also need to filter out the ideas that make your Taker unhappy. You should not be listening to one or the other and just blindly following what they say. Both of them are SHORT SIGHTED and can lead you to disaster.
You don't want to be led by mere emotion - you need to be led by sense, thinking, intelligence, and rationality.
IF YOU LET THE GIVER RULE, EVENTUALLY THE TAKER WILL RISE UP AND DEMAND THAT YOU DO WHAT IT WANTS FOR AWHILE. There is no way to stop this. I want you to read what Dr. Harley actually says about this so you will understand it. Dr. Harley is a trained psychologist, knows what he is talking about, and specializes in marriage and infidelity situations, so what he writes about this is crucially important.
If you want to get to a happy outcome for your husband, it can't be by just letting your Giver be in control and sacrificing your own happiness. Not only will that be unfulfilling for him, it will eventually result in your TAKER WANTING TO BREAK HIS KNEECAPS.
I don't feel there is any hope here. I see the same gaslighting and twisting I've been seeing throughout the course of this marriage. This is unfortunately serial. I was just too naive and in love to see it before. This phase will last about 3 days, and everything will go back to "normal." This is the same old pattern.
The husband.
Fate, why don't you start your own thread?
Since you encouraged your wife to post here, you seem to be a bit knowledgable about the program. It would be great to hear your story and try to help you work through this using Dr Harley's concepts. But you need to do it on your own thread.
He's right. I've developed this mechanism of defense early on in my life and I've been constantly protecting myself, never letting the guard down, preemptively striking before I can get hurt myself. Psychopathic behaviour if you will. I need help!!!! I need guidance. I don't know where to start. The only person I've been completely selfess with is my son and I want to transfer that to everyone else. As soon as my mistakes come up and I'm confronted with them the Taker takes over and I get very defensive causing the result to be catastrophic for my husband. I want to change, I want to do the right thing. I want to make deposits into his love bank. I was listening to the radio show today and Dr Harley was saying that depression is very damaging to marriages. I've always battled depression especially after my dad passed away so I formed this crust around me to stop the hurt from happening again. In reality I'm weak, I have emotions but I hide them. I thought I was unlovable and when I found myself loved by someone I couldn't believe it was true. I was sure he was going to hurt me and I put up a barrier hurting him first in the process.
I always thought when faced with a deception like an affair you have two options: forgive and move on or call it quits. I didn't realize the first option not only takes a very strong person but also a lot of work. I guess I figured since he decided to stick it out he should just trust me and not doubt anything. How stupid is that? I know I wouldn't be able to do it. I'm here because I can't do this alone. And even if our marriage doesn't work out I need to become a better person.
I don't feel there is any hope here. I see the same gaslighting and twisting I've been seeing throughout the course of this marriage. This is unfortunately serial. I was just too naive and in love to see it before. This phase will last about 3 days, and everything will go back to "normal." This is the same old pattern.
The husband.
Recovery takes both spouses putting in a total effort to restore a marriage. I can tell you from first-hand experience that it is possible. But for me, it was the most difficult thing I ever had to do. However, if you think that all is due you; that all you should have to do is sit passively and watch her change, then I agree with you that it is hopeless. Cut your losses and get a divorce.
You see, the thing is that I too can see an entrenched pattern in your marriage. I just isn't the same pattern that you see.
I don't feel there is any hope here. I see the same gaslighting and twisting I've been seeing throughout the course of this marriage. This is unfortunately serial. I was just too naive and in love to see it before. This phase will last about 3 days, and everything will go back to "normal." This is the same old pattern.
The husband.
Recovery takes both spouses putting in a total effort to restore a marriage. I can tell you from first-hand experience that it is possible. But for me, it was the most difficult thing I ever had to do. However, if you think that all is due you; that all you should have to do is sit passively and watch her change, then I agree with you that it is hopeless. Cut your losses and get a divorce.
You see, the thing is that I too can see an entrenched pattern in your marriage. I just isn't the same pattern that you see.
When you say it was the hardest thing you've had to do, how did you overcome it? How did your wife reassure you?
He's right. I've developed this mechanism of defense early on in my life and I've been constantly protecting myself, never letting the guard down, preemptively striking before I can get hurt myself. Psychopathic behaviour if you will. I need help!!!! I need guidance. I don't know where to start.
You can start by stopping. Just stop doing it. We will work with your husband, but you have to start by stopping with the defensiveness. When your husband says something true to you, don't fight it and make excuses, just say "this is true, and I am sorry for that."
THAT being said, we will work with you both to start focusing on the solution, rather than the affair. The affair needs to be put to rest and never brought up again.
I always thought when faced with a deception like an affair you have two options: forgive and move on or call it quits. I didn't realize the first option not only takes a very strong person but also a lot of work. I guess I figured since he decided to stick it out he should just trust me and not doubt anything. How stupid is that? I know I wouldn't be able to do it. I'm here because I can't do this alone. And even if our marriage doesn't work out I need to become a better person.
You may have hit upon the problem, you believe in forgiveness. Asking your husband to trust you is an unreasonable request that won't solve the problem. Trust has to be EARNED.
Dr Harley advocates a third option: just compensation. That is what will turn your marriage around.
I don't feel there is any hope here. I see the same gaslighting and twisting I've been seeing throughout the course of this marriage. This is unfortunately serial. I was just too naive and in love to see it before. This phase will last about 3 days, and everything will go back to "normal." This is the same old pattern.
The husband.
I see a lot of fog, so I can understand. But this can be turned around. Can you start your own thread?
I read about Just Compensation. It makes sense. I have promised to change and committed to restoring the love for each other but when I act defensive my actions don't support my promise. He's surely thinking why bother? This person is incapable of change. I have to consider his feelings at ALL times even when the affair is brought up. Dr Harley described exactly what I've been feeling. Thank you MelodyLane
I have to consider his feelings at ALL times even when the affair is brought up.
If the marriage is going to recover, the two of you must stop talking about the affair.
Are you willing to do that? Is he?
When you say it was the hardest thing you've had to do, how did you overcome it? How did your wife reassure you?
I started listening to Marriage Builders Radio within a few weeks of the initial discovery of my wife's affair. I became an avid listener. I still am. My wife and I read Surviving an Affair together. We went on the radio program twice to get advice directly from Dr. Harley. We came to the forum and read a lot. In many respects, I lead the way. My wife didn't feel she had the right to tell me what to do at the beginning of recovery. What she did was commit to this program of recovery. That was enough.
Well, the siege is over but nothing is exactly better. As I mentioned before I took a polygraph tests and answered all the questions truthfully, but somehow now none of that matters. First, he thinks I may have "tricked" the test, secondly he is convinced I had a Physical affair as well. I don't know how else to tell him that I haven't. He even says I may have had one since then. He interrogates me every time he's thinking about this. I know that he has no trust and with good reason, but I only had one affair and it was emotional. How can I prove that? I don't know what else to do. It's like the polygraph mean nothing and it's like his lack of trust keeps him thinking there is something else there. I know I wasn't the greatest after D day when the affair was brought up, getting defensive and frustrated, walking away. But I have been following everything i'm supposed to do and answering his questions. It doesn't matter what I say, he still says i'm lying. I feel like a giant inserted a syringe and needle in me and drained the life out. I don't know what else to do. Please help. I feel different, I WANT to change, I want to make up for my transgressions and he keeps telling me he is waiting to se the change but he doesn't believe I can do it. I feel empty.
but I only had one affair and it was emotional.
STOP THAT KIND OF THINKING.
BUT, I only murdered him once.
Now, what else can you do and have done already?
Did you go over the list from SAA, Surviving An Affair?
Do you provide 100% complete transparency?
What means of contact did you use to get a hold of your Affair Partner?
Phone, e-mail, work, FB, same social circles, etc...
Change your phone number and ee-mail address.
Let HIM have ALL of your passwords.
Listen to the veteran posters and Don't skip ANY Steps.
Will you BH, Betrayed Husband be willing to post here?
It really would help a lot.
LTL
AGT,
I wrote this before but your BH also needs TIME to heal, it's at least 2 years and I believe your BH only leaned about this in Jan 2015?
Good job willingly taking the polygraph btw, short term your BH is still in too much shock to appreciate it , long term your BH will have that much less doubt.
Gamma
Well, the siege is over but nothing is exactly better. As I mentioned before I took a polygraph tests and answered all the questions truthfully, but somehow now none of that matters. First, he thinks I may have "tricked" the test, secondly he is convinced I had a Physical affair as well. I don't know how else to tell him that I haven't. He even says I may have had one since then. He interrogates me every time he's thinking about this. I know that he has no trust and with good reason, but I only had one affair and it was emotional. How can I prove that? I don't know what else to do. It's like the polygraph mean nothing and it's like his lack of trust keeps him thinking there is something else there. I know I wasn't the greatest after D day when the affair was brought up, getting defensive and frustrated, walking away. But I have been following everything i'm supposed to do and answering his questions. It doesn't matter what I say, he still says i'm lying. I feel like a giant inserted a syringe and needle in me and drained the life out. I don't know what else to do. Please help. I feel different, I WANT to change, I want to make up for my transgressions and he keeps telling me he is waiting to se the change but he doesn't believe I can do it. I feel empty.
allgood, you need to ask him outright to stop talking about the affair, and to stop accusing you of lying, fixing the test and all the rest of it. Ask him if he can do that. Don't threaten him with leaving, but if he says that he can't stop, or if he says that he needs time to heal because he only found out about the affair in January (or whenever), or if he says that he can stop but then does not, you will need to consider separating from him. Your marriage will never recover until he stops punishing you for the affair.
His need to "heal" does not require that he punish you for what you did.
I wrote this before but your BH also needs TIME to heal, it's at least 2 years and I believe your BH only leaned about this in Jan 2015?
Don't even think about putting up with what your H has been saying for "at least 2 years" while he heals. His punishing you will not help him heal, and it will harm you and the very marriage that you are trying to build.
What your H needs to do to heal is to follow the checklist from Surviving an Affair, and stop bringing up the affair, in any way (such as accusing you of lying).
allgood, you need to ask him outright to stop talking about the affair, and to stop accusing you of lying, fixing the test and all the rest of it. Ask him if he can do that. Don't threaten him with leaving, but if he says that he can't stop, or if he says that he needs time to heal because he only found out about the affair in January (or whenever), or if he says that he can stop but then does not, you will need to consider separating from him. Your marriage will never recover until he stops punishing you for the affair.
His need to "heal" does not require that he punish you for what you did.
Punishing you for the affair is not part of recovery -- it will only prolong his pain.
Recovery is going to take two. BOTH of you need to be in this program, learning how to care for each other and to protect each other. If he is not willing to work the program with you, then this marriage cannot be saved. You cannot do it yourself, no matter how remorseful you are for what you did.
Do what Sugarcane told you to do above. This is absolutely essential to your recovery.
In addition to all this excellent advice, I think that your husband should see a doctor about getting some medication to get him through this time. Early on, I found it nearly impossible to stop thinking and talking about my wife's affair. It was only after seeing a psychiatrist and getting on some medication that my mind cleared enough for me to gain some control and start reacting with my intelligence.
but I only had one affair and it was emotional.
STOP THAT KIND OF THINKING.
BUT, I only murdered him once.
Now, what else can you do and have done already?
Did you go over the list from SAA, Surviving An Affair?
Do you provide 100% complete transparency?
What means of contact did you use to get a hold of your Affair Partner?
Phone, e-mail, work, FB, same social circles, etc...
Change your phone number and ee-mail address.
Let HIM have ALL of your passwords.
Listen to the veteran posters and Don't skip ANY Steps.
Will you BH, Betrayed Husband be willing to post here?
It really would help a lot.
LTL
You're right. It sounded like I was making light of it. I'm not. I had one to many affairs. I was intending to say that there was never physical involvement and that he keeps interrogating me about that. He was on the right track with the program and , as I said before, I had commited to it as well but wasn't acting like it. Recently he told a friend about what happened and his friend keeps telling him I probably had a PA too and that I'm not worth it and since then his interrogating has gotten worse. His family knows everything and they are supportive of our recovery but his friend is like a little voice that keeps telling him to walk away. At least that's what it feels like it to me.
I have bought SAA book and fall in love stay in love, I've been listening to the MB radio and ordered archives, I've been reading this forum, I've followed the steps, deleted fb completely, etc. Although I feel emotionally drained, for the first time in my life, I don't want to run away from the problem. I want to go all the way. I've admitted my mistakes to myself and the world, I'm rebuilding myself. I guess it will take time.
In addition to all this excellent advice, I think that your husband should see a doctor about getting some medication to get him through this time. Early on, I found it nearly impossible to stop thinking and talking about my wife's affair. It was only after seeing a psychiatrist and getting on some medication that my mind cleared enough for me to gain some control and start reacting with my intelligence.
I've suggested this to him but he says he doesn't want to be a zombie. He wants to feel what he's supposed to feel.
It's the ups and downs that are killing me. He'll interrogate me for 2 hours and then hug me and start acting like my husband again. I'm in a rollercoaster and I can't get down. I don't know what to expect from one day to the next. I've been texting him everything I do and everything that happens throughout the course of my day. I make sure I don't leave anything out. I answer his questions matteroffactly and honestly and I'm constantly affraid of his reactions.
In addition to all this excellent advice, I think that your husband should see a doctor about getting some medication to get him through this time. Early on, I found it nearly impossible to stop thinking and talking about my wife's affair. It was only after seeing a psychiatrist and getting on some medication that my mind cleared enough for me to gain some control and start reacting with my intelligence.
I've suggested this to him but he says he doesn't want to be a zombie. He wants to feel what he's supposed to feel.
But that is what medication *does*. One's state of mind after such an enormous emotional trauma is not normal. Medication restores the brain back to a more normal balance. If the trauma were a headache, would he argue that an appropriate analgesic was wrong? The injury his brain has endured is *much* worse than a headache! Nobody likes taking meds, but he really needs to.
It's the ups and downs that are killing me. He'll interrogate me for 2 hours and then hug me and start acting like my husband again. I'm in a rollercoaster and I can't get down. I don't know what to expect from one day to the next. I've been texting him everything I do and everything that happens throughout the course of my day. I make sure I don't leave anything out. I answer his questions matteroffactly and honestly and I'm constantly affraid of his reactions.
Did you read my advice to you?
It's the ups and downs that are killing me. He'll interrogate me for 2 hours and then hug me and start acting like my husband again. I'm in a rollercoaster and I can't get down. I don't know what to expect from one day to the next. I've been texting him everything I do and everything that happens throughout the course of my day. I make sure I don't leave anything out. I answer his questions matteroffactly and honestly and I'm constantly affraid of his reactions.
Did you read my advice to you?
Yes I did. I will try it.
Well, the siege is over but nothing is exactly better. As I mentioned before I took a polygraph tests and answered all the questions truthfully, but somehow now none of that matters. First, he thinks I may have "tricked" the test, secondly he is convinced I had a Physical affair as well. I don't know how else to tell him that I haven't. He even says I may have had one since then. He interrogates me every time he's thinking about this. I know that he has no trust and with good reason, but I only had one affair and it was emotional. How can I prove that? I don't know what else to do. It's like the polygraph mean nothing and it's like his lack of trust keeps him thinking there is something else there. I know I wasn't the greatest after D day when the affair was brought up, getting defensive and frustrated, walking away. But I have been following everything i'm supposed to do and answering his questions. It doesn't matter what I say, he still says i'm lying. I feel like a giant inserted a syringe and needle in me and drained the life out. I don't know what else to do. Please help. I feel different, I WANT to change, I want to make up for my transgressions and he keeps telling me he is waiting to se the change but he doesn't believe I can do it. I feel empty.
allgood, you need to ask him outright to stop talking about the affair, and to stop accusing you of lying, fixing the test and all the rest of it. Ask him if he can do that. Don't threaten him with leaving, but if he says that he can't stop, or if he says that he needs time to heal because he only found out about the affair in January (or whenever), or if he says that he can stop but then does not, you will need to consider separating from him. Your marriage will never recover until he stops punishing you for the affair.
His need to "heal" does not require that he punish you for what you did.
If he can do this he may stop scratching the itch and keeping the wound open. I'm not sure either of you release how much effect the unchanged phone number has on you both. With the number unchanged, OM can call you whenever he pleases from a different number and its down to raw trust how you respond. Trust which didn't work in the first place. Even the most perfect, ignoring response will hurt your husband and he's going to blame you when it happens.
Trust doesn't work in recovery. What does work is making renewed contact impossible and making any new affairs impossible. Change numbers and take yourself off social media. Get a dumb phone if that's what it takes to reassure him. Or have your phone and internet activity logged, you could even get one which reveals your whereabouts. You should be together pretty much all of the time anyway. There shouldn't be time for him to listen to friends' opinions of you if he is really concerned with where you are and what you're doing.
So you're going to have to insist on some things. No more talking about the A. He can believe it's physical if he wants to, but he can't continue bringing up the regrettable fact that the poly didn't convince him. It didn't, so neither will a two hour interrogation. He can believe what he pleases but he cannot keep you on trial indefinitely. Insist.
You have to insist on the number change too.
All of this selfless talk is also baloney. That's what got you into this mess - conflict avoidance leading to you bring complaints to someone else. In future you need to bring your complaints to your husband and resolve them.
Selflessness is just being chicken.
It's the ups and downs that are killing me. He'll interrogate me for 2 hours and then hug me and start acting like my husband again. I'm in a rollercoaster and I can't get down. I don't know what to expect from one day to the next. I've been texting him everything I do and everything that happens throughout the course of my day. I make sure I don't leave anything out. I answer his questions matteroffactly and honestly and I'm constantly affraid of his reactions.
Did you read my advice to you?
Yes I did. I will try it.
When?
allgoodthings, I am shocked that you did not tell us in your first post that your marriage started out as an affair.
Knowing that fact, there is very little we can help you with. Your only chance of saving this is by contacting Dr. Harley and getting his professional help.
but his friend is like a little voice that keeps telling him to walk away.
His friend is right. The odds of this turning out good for anybody, especially him, is very low.
I didn't because I knew no one would give me a chance. That was a real affair I fell in love with Fate and since he didn't mention the back story my first husband didn't want to be married anymore because he wanted to pursue his carreer and I didn't fit in his plans. In a million years I never imagined this was going to happen again. It was by your definition an emotional affair but it was based on me leaning on someone to talk about my problems and vent. It was wrong, yes, but I never lived him or wanted to leave my husband or wanted a relationship with this person. I wanted guidance for my situation because I love my husband and I can't fix this. I'm now labeled as a cheater and there's no hope for me. Fate also didn't mention that I am from south America where is common for people to have friends of the opposite sex and don't sleep with them. I didn't have but one boyfriend before my first husband and never had casual encounters. Fate describes me as some sort of sociopath, evil, calculating person. I'm not. If anything I'm pretty dumb for believing someone actually gave a damn. As I said before I've battled depression all my life and if it weren't for my son I would be long gone right now. Because of my stupidity and low self-esteem I've created a monster that's chasing me.
He also didn't mention that my son is out of the country with my family for the summer. Whatsapp is the only way the would be able to reach me immediately.
Thank you all for your time.
Goodbye
The vast majority of marriages that start as affairs end in divorce.
Your only chance is to email Dr. Harley and get his professional help. If you are serious, drop the drama and get the help you need.
You can reach him at: mbradio@marriagebuilders.com
We cannot help you simply because we do not have the expertise to help a couple in your fragile situation. We are not refusing to help you just because you have been labelled a "cheater."
Email Dr. Harley. If you email him, be honest about how your marriage started. It is vital that he knows.
He will help you for free.
I tried making an appointment but they didn't have times available. Could you give me the email address please? If you have it.
I apologize for sounding fatalistic, I am very emotional right now.
I wanted guidance for my situation
You got fantastic guidance from SugarCane. Follow it strictly, to the letter, immediately, and this will turn out well for you.
You also got a referral to the best marital therapist in the world, Dr. Willard Harley. He will help you for free.
It is important that you know that nobody on this forum has ever been able to help a person in your situation recover their marriage. We would very much like to help you, but we have a 0% success rate. The situation is higher than our paygrade; we are just amateurs. Dr. Harley is a professional who has been saving marriages and specializing in affair situations for decades, and we are encouraging you to contact him because he is THE BEST. Dr. Harley and Joyce are passionate about saving marriages and would love to help you.
I believe that if you can follow the Marriage Builders principles 100% that you can save your marriage. But if you carve out any exceptions at all, for any reason at all, you will not be able to. So looking at the marriage saving plan here, if you look at something and respond "I can't do that because ..." then you won't be able to save your marriage. But if you look at it and say "Okay, I will do that, whatever it takes," then you can save your marriage.
So regarding Whatsapp, it's got to be "Okay, I'll follow the Policy of Joint Agreement." And your husband needs to have the exact same attitude about his abuse.
I tried making an appointment but they didn't have times available. Could you give me the email address please? If you have it.
I apologize for sounding fatalistic, I am very emotional right now.
mbradio@marriagebuilders.com
I tried making an appointment but they didn't have times available. Could you give me the email address please? If you have it.
I apologize for sounding fatalistic, I am very emotional right now.
You are confusing Dr. Willard Harley with his son Steve. Dr. Harley does not make appointments. Send him and his wife Joyce an email at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com
When you write Dr. Harley, tell him markos and Prisca sent you, and tell him that your marriage started as an affair.
You might also copy in the advice that SugarCane gave you and ask him if he believes it would be good for you to follow it.
and tell him that your marriage started as an affair.
He needs to know this because your marriage is more fragile than most, and will need special care. Hiding it from him will only hurt yourself.
allgood, you need to ask him outright to stop talking about the affair, and to stop accusing you of lying, fixing the test and all the rest of it. Ask him if he can do that. Don't threaten him with leaving, but if he says that he can't stop, or if he says that he needs time to heal because he only found out about the affair in January (or whenever), or if he says that he can stop but then does not, you will need to consider separating from him. Your marriage will never recover until he stops punishing you for the affair.
His need to "heal" does not require that he punish you for what you did.
1. you need to ask him outright to stop talking about the affair
2. you need to ask him to stop accusing you of lying, fixing the test and all the rest of it
3. Don't threaten him with leaving
4. if he says that he can't stop, or if he says that he needs time to heal because he only found out about the affair in January (or whenever), or if he says that he can stop but then does not, you will need to consider separating from him
Let Dr. Harley know which of these things you have done so far.
Thank you Markos. We've just sent him an email without leaving any details. I appreciate your help.
All good, your post here just encourages your husband to distrust you.
Its ironic, but the more you panic about being believed and trusted and helped, the harder you make it. If you can relax and trust in this programme - to the letter what Dr H tells you, you will be OK.
Dr H can help you with the following. I've pulled out some things which may make it difficult for your husband to trust you. The good news is this can all be changed. I know you want that.
I didn't because I knew no one would give me a chance.
When given a choice between telling the truth and getting what you need from people - you choose dishonesty. I appreciate that you desperately want help to remain with your husband - but the message you've sent him here is that you are willing to lie in order to get that goal. You need to be fearlessly honest from here on in. With everyone. I know you dont like yourself very much but people are not going to despise you for being honest about your mistakes.
If not for your husband we still wouldn't know about the main problem. We would have been left with the mistaken impression that you'd 'only had one EA' and would not know that his very extreme distrust was based on watching a very extreme deception - watching you lie to your first husband.
I didn't because I knew no one would give me a chance. That was a real affair I fell in love with Fate and since he didn't mention the back story my first husband didn't want to be married anymore because he wanted to pursue his carreer and I didn't fit in his plans.
Defensive statements like this, that it's your first husband's fault he was cheated on will make your second husband very nervous. Fate now sees himself as being in your first husband's shoes. I think he would be more reassured if you just took responsibility for the fact you should have divorced before you leaned on an OS friend.
. Fate also didn't mention that I am from south America where is common for people to have friends of the opposite sex and don't sleep with them.
That's common everywhere. It's why affairs are common everywhere. People don't enter affairs looking for sex they go looking for friendship and it develops from there. Most people do so innocently, but at some point it involves lying and hiding the relationship. If you can start being more brutally honest and avoid having OS friends because NONE of us can be trusted to do that without problems happening then you will have affair proofed your marriage.
60 pc of marriages experience affairs, not because 60 pc of marriages contain dreadful people, but because these mistakes ARE common. You can use your experiences to rise above those common mistakes.
He also didn't mention that my son is out of the country with my family for the summer. Whatsapp is the only way the would be able to reach me immediately.
I am sure your husband has some other ideas about ways to contact your son. There are many ways.
All good, your post here just encourages your husband to distrust you.
Its ironic, but the more you panic about being believed and trusted and helped, the harder you make it. If you can relax and trust in this programme - to the letter what Dr H tells you, you will be OK.
Dr H can help you with the following. I've pulled out some things which may make it difficult for your husband to trust you. The good news is this can all be changed. I know you want that.
I do.
I didn't because I knew no one would give me a chance.
When given a choice between telling the truth and getting what you need from people - you choose dishonesty. I appreciate that you desperately want help to remain with your husband - but the message you've sent him here is that you are willing to lie in order to get that goal. You need to be fearlessly honest from here on in. With everyone. I know you dont like yourself very much but people are not going to despise you for being honest about your mistakes.
If not for your husband we still wouldn't know about the main problem. We would have been left with the mistaken impression that you'd 'only had one EA' and would not know that his very extreme distrust was based on watching a very extreme deception - watching you lie to your first husband.
I didn't because I knew no one would give me a chance. That was a real affair I fell in love with Fate and since he didn't mention the back story my first husband didn't want to be married anymore because he wanted to pursue his carreer and I didn't fit in his plans.
Defensive statements like this, that it's your first husband's fault he was cheated on will make your second husband very nervous. Fate now sees himself as being in your first husband's shoes. I think he would be more reassured if you just took responsibility for the fact you should have divorced before you leaned on an OS friend.
. Fate also didn't mention that I am from south America where is common for people to have friends of the opposite sex and don't sleep with them.
That's common everywhere. It's why affairs are common everywhere. People don't enter affairs looking for sex they go looking for friendship and it develops from there. Most people do so innocently, but at some point it involves lying and hiding the relationship. If you can start being more brutally honest and avoid having OS friends because NONE of us can be trusted to do that without problems happening then you will have affair proofed your marriage.
60 pc of marriages experience affairs, not because 60 pc of marriages contain dreadful people, but because these mistakes ARE common. You can use your experiences to rise above those common mistakes.
He also didn't mention that my son is out of the country with my family for the summer. Whatsapp is the only way the would be able to reach me immediately.
I am sure your husband has some other ideas about ways to contact your son. There are many ways.
Wow. This makes sense. Something just clicked. Thank you.
I didn't because I knew no one would give me a chance. That was a real affair I fell in love with Fate and since he didn't mention the back story my first husband didn't want to be married anymore because he wanted to pursue his carreer and I didn't fit in his plans. In a million years I never imagined this was going to happen again. It was by your definition an emotional affair but it was based on me leaning on someone to talk about my problems and vent. It was wrong, yes, but I never lived him or wanted to leave my husband or wanted a relationship with this person. I wanted guidance for my situation because I love my husband and I can't fix this. I'm now labeled as a cheater and there's no hope for me. Fate also didn't mention that I am from south America where is common for people to have friends of the opposite sex and don't sleep with them. I didn't have but one boyfriend before my first husband and never had casual encounters. Fate describes me as some sort of sociopath, evil, calculating person. I'm not. If anything I'm pretty dumb for believing someone actually gave a damn. As I said before I've battled depression all my life and if it weren't for my son I would be long gone right now. Because of my stupidity and low self-esteem I've created a monster that's chasing me.
He also didn't mention that my son is out of the country with my family for the summer. Whatsapp is the only way the would be able to reach me immediately.
Thank you all for your time.
Goodbye
So it was all about what YOU wanted and what YOU needed, never taking into consideration that posters on a "Surviving an Affair" forum may not want to help someone in an affair marriage?
You owe posters who helped you an apology for deceiving them....another issue posters on this forum are pretty sensitive about.
So it was all about what YOU wanted and what YOU needed, never taking into consideration that posters on a "Surviving an Affair" forum may not want to help someone in an affair marriage?
One way to live is to give people all the facts and let them make their own decisions about what they are willing to do.
You may not always get what you want immediately, but you will have better relationships this way. And we aren't entitled to get our way at the expense of other people. People will appreciate when you don't try to get your way at their expense, but you take only what they are voluntarily willing to give when they have all the facts.
The other way to live is to conceal and select the facts in order to try to manipulate people into doing something that they wouldn't want to do if they had all the facts. You manipulate them into giving you your way at their expense.
People do not appreciate this, so you get what you want faster, but in the long term it burns bridges. People who live this way often end up very unhappy in life with few friends. Frequently even their grown children will have nothing to do with them.
Let people do what they want to do, instead of trying to manipulate and control them.
Let your husband leave you if he wants to. He is entitled to do so.
By the same token, you are entitled to leave him. He is abusive.
Either way, don't fight with him.
Let people help you if they want, but if they don't want to, respect and honor their choice and their feelings.
Yes Markos. Everything you say it's true. That and many other reasons is why I have to be reborn. My husband and I have an "affairage" and that affairage became a family. We've both done regrettable things, mine to a larger scale than his, but we love our little family and we want to beat the odds. He has a right to leave just as much as you have a right to refuse helping. But you know what? He is still here and wants to witness my growth in the same way that many of you, willingly or no, even after my deception continued to help remove the blindfold off my eyes. This change won't happen overnight but my motivation is the benefit to my husband first, our relationship, our family and lastly myself. Because it will only gratify me when I have seen the benefits to "us". The few friends I've kept around are those who, like you, point me in the right detection. A weight has been lifted, I am awake, I feel calm and gratitude. The desperation is gone, the instinct of self preservation is gone and now removed I can see clearly.
Btw, we were on the air on yesterday's radio show.
Again i thank all of you for your words and although you might not think so, they have helped me immensely.
The time for change is now, the search for constant approval and affirmation has to be redirected towards my husband and no one else. The fear of embarrassment and disapproval removed. And the will to change for the good of those around me has replaced it all. In a way, in the midst of This huge mess I've created, I feel happy. Happy to have a husband who's not willing to give up on me, happy to see that there are people in this world like you that invest their time in helping others and happy that I can see myself for who I was and have been for the first time.
Again with the windy proclamations of change - do, don't say. Wayward words are meaningless without action.
I tried but we have a family plc can and my BH is the primary so he has to be with me.
Did you listen to the clips in here?
Again with the windy proclamations of change - do, don't say. Wayward words are meaningless without action.
First of all , FORMER wayward, secondly since I can't very well display my actions on the internet I have to use words. Finally, my actions will be seen by the only one who matters, my husband.
I tried but we have a family plc can and my BH is the primary so he has to be with me.
Did you listen to the clips in here?
Yes we have. We are both going to get rid of smart phones and go back to simpler ways and my phone number will be changing as well. We are also relocating. There's no argument from me on what I need to do.
Please keep your posts respectful and refrain from personal attacks.
Again with the windy proclamations of change - do, don't say. Wayward words are meaningless without action.
First of all , FORMER wayward, secondly since I can't very well display my actions on the internet I have to use words. Finally, my actions will be seen by the only one who matters, my husband.
Well your actions on this board haven't been much to write home about - this is an emergency room for couples whose lives have been turned upside down due to an affair..and you deceived them into helping you. Then after being prompted, you refuse to apologize. Now you are attacking our seasoned posters. Wow.
And you are wrong btw...Alis is a wonderful poster.
Again with the windy proclamations of change - do, don't say. Wayward words are meaningless without action.
First of all , FORMER wayward, secondly since I can't very well display my actions on the internet I have to use words. Finally, my actions will be seen by the only one who matters, my husband.
You need to realize that you write a lot of fluff. You make a lot of excuses, you hide truth to affect how others perceive you, including H and other posters.
I say this to you, because you have a serious character flaw about this, AND IT NEEDS TO CHANGE, if you want your H to start taking your word at face value.
Or, argue and proclaim you are born again (again... again.. again...), if you want to continue status quo. Your choice.
As this couple is getting help directly from Dr. Harley, this thread is now locked.