Marriage Builders
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Devastated - 12/20/15 11:39 PM
Hello,

My husband and I had been separated for since 2/2015 and it was hard to get him to ENGAGE. We were both stubborn and prideful and not following Gods plan for how we are to treat each other. We have only been married since 6/2013. Anyway, the week before Thanksgiving 2015 my husband emailed me to tell me he had an affair and he promptly filed for divorce the next day. Devastated and shocked to say the least. This new girl loves him for him and now he says WE were never meant to be together and he is never coming back. In fact, he has gone as far as to say the affair is NOT an affair because he divorced me in his heart before engaging with this new woman and that I never wanted him or loved him. All bunk and excuses and rationalizations, but nonetheless that is the hurtful stuff he says to me via email or phone. My husband is a christian as well as I am....and he knows better than to say adultery is not adultery just because he divorced me in his heart. My question is this. I don't want a divorce. However, there is nothing out in the internet spaces or blogospheres as to what or how I should be acting now. Do I ignore him, do I keep telling him I don't want a divorce (which I have done til I am blue in the face), do I stall the divorce proceedings? I don't want to act desperate and begging and clingy as that is not attractive, but I guess I have no choice but to leave him to Satan at the moment as he has free will. I have been praying Hosea 2 Hedge of Thorns prayer and trying to pray ceaselessly, but for 3wks now, there is nothing positive coming out of anything. I know God is working for good, but I feel stuck.

In the last few weeks I did a plan A ish not even knowing it. All that got me was ugly emails saying it's too late...I'm never coming back...you'll thank me later for divorcing you...it's over...blah blah...then earlier this week I did plan B and went dark. The only problem with my plan B is that he had already stopped communication with me...all I did different was deactivate my Facebook.

So in my case...seeing as he announced the affair and filed for divorce in one big quick fell swoop...what can I do to still save my marriage?

Advice anyone?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/20/15 11:46 PM
FYI...during our separation he was living at his old churches studio. When I found out about the affair on Sunday...I forwarded the Email...yes email he sent admitting the affair...his pastors confronted him the following morning and he admitted it...said he was done and moving on and so they had no choice but to kick him out. Now he has an apartment somewhere...which I don't know where....nor do I know who the OW is...I don't know anything about her...not even her name. Sigh.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My husband and I had been separated for since 2/2015 and it was hard to get him to ENGAGE.

Hello Always, welcome to Marriage Builders. What led to your separation in February? How long have you known him? Did you live together before marriage? Have either of you been married before? Any affairs on either side?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:09 AM
We knew each other over a year before we got married...he is 47 and I am 43...I have a son from a previous marriage...he has no children. I am his 3rd marriage and he is my 2nd. Prior..he was a drug and alcohol addict for 25yrs...he aged out of foster care as a child...and he is 5yrs sober. We were separated in Feb 2015 because I filed a restraining order due to punching holes in doors and breaking one door in half. He admitted during dating that he cheated on his previous wives...but when he got sober he became a born again Christian and he would never go against Gods commandment. I have never had an affair.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:10 AM
No we did not live together prior to marriage.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:15 AM
How can you figure out who this OW is?

Have you read Surving an Affair?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
We were separated in Feb 2015 because I filed a restraining order due to punching holes in doors and breaking one door in half.

You do realize that a marriage would never work unless and until he went through extensive anger management training, right? Your husband is a dangerous man and I applaud you for filing a restraining order. He is not safe.

I would suggest that you send him a Plan B letter telling him not to contact you again unless he a) completes extensive anger management training and b) ends his affair and c) commits to fixing the marriage. You have nothing to save unless he does all of those things 100%.

A short marriage with a violent alcoholic might not be worth saving. And keep in mind that you cannot control him. He has the free will to be violent and adulterous.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:18 AM
Looking back we should've always been in marriage counseling. We adopted the thought that he would get help....I would get help...fix ourselves and then do marriage counseling...10mo was waaaaaaay too long. We saw each other over the 10mo but not since 10-31-2015 when we went to talk to our pastor. That went sideways...and a month later he emailed to say he'd had an affair starting 11-7-2015 when he told me he kissed her and the earth stood still and that she loved him for him. Next day he filed divorce.

He is currently doing EMDR therapy for his childhood. I understand that is horrific for people with major traumas. Foster care was not kind and nurturing...it was emotional....psychological...sexual traumas and abuses. Hence the numbing with decades of drugs and alcohol addiction. He thought that when he got sober 5 yrs ago that meant he was healed...WRONG. Neither of us recognized how wrong that was.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:20 AM
I have not done the plan B official letter because he has already filed for divorce and is not contacting me anyway.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:22 AM
Until about a month ago he had been going to Celebrate Recovery...if you don't know what that is...it's like AA for Christians.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:27 AM
Do you want to save your marriage?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:27 AM
The part of plan B I've technically implemented is not contacting him and deactivating my Facebook. I didn't do the letter because I just found out about it this week and he has already stopped communicating with me anyway. I fear that if I send the formal letter it will be another hateful response telling me he's never coming back and to move on.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:28 AM
Yes I want to save my marriage. The affair fog stuff I read fits him to a T
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:28 AM
Can you find out who the OW is? To expose on her side?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:33 AM
Why did your first marriage end?

Why did his marriages end?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:34 AM
No. His pastor who is FB friends with him knows from FB but won't tell me.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:37 AM
His prior two marriages ended because of shared drugs and alcohol addictions from both he and the wives...first marriage was when he was 18yrs old. Anyway...I'm the first person he's dated/married that didn't have addictions like that.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 12:37 AM
My first marriage ended when my German husband got his green card and left.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No. His pastor who is FB friends with him knows from FB but won't tell me.
A pastor knows who the OW is and is supporting/enabling the affair by keeping her a secret? Wow!!

Do you have your finances secured?

One thing the Plan B Letter will do is give him your conditions to repair the marriage if you choose to, a roadmap home.

How is your support system? Do you have self care in place?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 01:46 AM
His pastor feels it's my WS place to tell me. He does not know the OW....nor does he condone it.

My finances are secure.

Good support and getting better on self care.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 01:47 AM
I just don't see any options for me considering he ran to self file for divorce. Sigh.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 02:12 AM
I want my marriage restored but I don't know how to do it alone.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I want my marriage restored but I don't know how to do it alone.
You can't restore your marriage alone and not while the affair is active. But one thing that can help kill the affair is exposure. You need to find out who the OW is and expose on her side.

How about reactivating your Facebook account to find out who she is and get her contact list?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I want my marriage restored but I don't know how to do it alone.

Always, this will be an uphill battle over which you have zero control. You should not even consider taking him back unless he completes extensive anger management behavioral control and then demonstrates new behavior for over a year. That is the biggest problem in your marriage. The affair is secondary.

Do you think that your husband would go through anger management therapy and end his affair? I doubt he would. And that is the only way you should even consider being with him. Otherwise, divorce would be the best option. Sometimes divorce is the definition of success.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 03:06 AM
I am not FB friends with my WS...so I have no access even if I reactivated it. I heard from the pastor tonight....he doesn't think the OW is married. Sigh.

I agree with the anger mgmt classes....there is a ton of work to do before he came back.

All the emails I've sent prior to going dark were met with...I'm done...I'm never coming back...we should've never got married...our marriage was a mistake...you never loved me...you never wanted me...over n over n over...there is no communication whatsoever via phone or email coming from him in over a week...and none from me to him either.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 03:19 AM
Do you recommend sending a FB message to all the people I can recall on my husbands FB...as noted in the link above...Exposure 101? Most of those people are work people and NOT common friends of us both.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/21/15 03:48 AM
Nor would I have her name...but...all his FB friends would know who I'm talking about.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/25/15 03:19 AM
Any luck on finding out who OW is?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/26/15 10:30 PM
None. It doesn't matter. I've gone totally dark including removing my FB acct...to prevent further viewing at any level...his ship needs to sink without me. Sooner he hits bottom...the better. If he can't see me...neither can OW.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/26/15 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
None. It doesn't matter. I've gone totally dark including removing my FB acct...to prevent further viewing at any level...his ship needs to sink without me. Sooner he hits bottom...the better. If he can't see me...neither can OW.
When was the last contact you had with him?

Did you ever decide to write a Plan B Letter with your conditions for his return?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/26/15 11:22 PM
The last contact was Dec 12th over a chk he was sending to me. I never did an official plan B letter because I hadn't known about it. However...I did do a plan B in essence by telling him that forgiveness and reconciliation are always possible through Jesus. Because I had already done the plan Bish type thing already I went totally dark. He knows there is a way back....if he was repentant. But keep in mind...I found out about the affair on Nov 22, 2015 and on Nov 23, 2015 he filed for divorce. This has all happened so fast.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/27/15 12:17 AM
That's why I think a Plan B Letter would be a good idea because he can read the letter to know his way back with your conditions.

Also I think you need to really spend the energy on finding out who OW is and expose on her side. She hasn't had to deal with any fallout because she's being protected.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/27/15 12:39 AM
I have no way to know. My WH moved and I don't know where. I'm blocked on FB...as well as I'm deactivated from FB...the people I know who know her identity from FB will not tell me.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/27/15 12:42 AM
Can I still do a plan B letter even though I've already gone dark?
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 12/28/15 04:21 PM
"Plan B" - "going dark" - all of it....depends on doing these things in specific order to have the optimum impact on WH.

It is imperative that you work hard to find out who OW is and expose the affair.

I'm sorry if it seems that folks on here are being hard on you, or repeating themselves, but they KNOW what works to restore marriages!

Please take plenty of time to educate yourself on these principles. They can save your sanity!

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/28/15 06:42 PM
Well I am working to find out who she is....a family friend is a PI
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 12/30/15 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Well I am working to find out who she is....a family friend is a PI
That's great. Any update?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 12/30/15 05:49 PM
No update yet
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/04/16 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No update yet
Any updates on finding OW?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/04/16 06:19 PM
Yes. Found out who she is. As a matter of description only...she is older...very black (we are white)...works with him...she is all tattooed...she looks like an ex gang banger. Very rough looking woman. She is also only 1.5yrs sober. Since he has already filed for divorce I won't send exposure letter to his work...nor do I believe her family will care. I sent exposure letter his mom. I'm disgusted.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/05/16 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes. Found out who she is. As a matter of description only...she is older...very black (we are white)...works with him...she is all tattooed...she looks like an ex gang banger. Very rough looking woman. She is also only 1.5yrs sober. Since he has already filed for divorce I won't send exposure letter to his work...nor do I believe her family will care. I sent exposure letter his mom. I'm disgusted.
They work together?

Why not expose on her side?
Posted By: Bellevue Re: Devastated - 01/05/16 04:38 AM
Not exposing at work is a mistake. Even if you don't think you want to or that you can restore your marriage after what has gone on, exposure will bust up the affair. Leaving that chance to expose helps your WH and his woman to keep things going.

You will regret not exposing at work. Neglecting that step helps the affairees to avoid the consequences they would face if you do that one thing. they can try to pretend the OP and they got together after the marriage took a nose dive. Even though the woman seems very tough and hard, your WH might not want to be that brazen.

Years down the road you have a really strong advantage by exposure.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/05/16 10:48 PM
I am in the place of higher earning. It's likely it would piss him off and he come after me financially...she would welcome that for sure as well. Also...he has my truck. He wants it thru the divorce. If he loses his job he can't refi it into his name. Plus..I don't want him back just cuz he can't afford squat either. I understand the exposure to work logic but I fear the financial repercussions too.
Posted By: Bellevue Re: Devastated - 01/06/16 07:15 PM
Ah, got it.
His worst fate will be losing you.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/06/16 08:04 PM
Don't get me wrong...I want my marriage restored. I just don't know that exposure to his work in this case is best. I'm still reeling from the knowledge of who the OW is...it's painful that he freely gave up everything...risked everything...for her. I understand the OP is usually a downgrade....but this really takes the cake. In fact I struggle with wondering if I even want him back. The bar wasn't just lowered...it was lying on the ground and he picked it up and embraced it. Who does that?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/06/16 08:09 PM
When was the last contact that you've had with him?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/06/16 08:51 PM
Last week via email regarding our taxes. I'm filing separately because it's better for me...he's not happy with that. But last week was last emails...around the 31st.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/06/16 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Last week via email regarding our taxes. I'm filing separately because it's better for me...he's not happy with that. But last week was last emails...around the 31st.
Why don't you have an IM?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/06/16 11:51 PM
What do you mean by am IM?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
What do you mean by am IM?
IM=intermediary

Read this and there's a link in this thread that explains the IM's duties.

How to Plan B correctly
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 01:24 AM
I don't know why I don't have an IM. I suppose it's because my WH already filed for divorce and we have no joint assets. No kids together. All assets are either solely in my name with exception of my car...I will need to refinance him off my car. The truck he drives is in my name and he wants it as part of the divorce. So the only thing we have emailed about is the truck pymt and then last week he inquired about how we were to get the taxes done. He was not thrilled that I plan on filing separately. Other than the taxes issue on the 31st we've had no contact since Dec 12th....always via email. So I'm thinking no point for IM? Our divorce court date is March 3rd. But he has no idea I won't be signing anything until he refi's the truck in his name. He's 47yrs old. I see no reason to tell him to do that...so if it takes the judge...ooooook.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 03:42 PM
Yes there is a point to an IM. It is for your own healing. You can see from the time that you had no contact with WH your personal healing/recovery was helping you. But now that you have had contact you can tell your personal healing has started back to square one.

Dr. Harley has had years of experience with helping couples who have dealt with an affair. One of the main effects he has seen that when a BW stays in contact with their unrepentant WH it takes a great toll on the BW mental and physical health. For your own sake please go to a dark Plan B and that includes no contact with WH.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 05:29 PM
I am dark. I thought plan B included business related stuff?
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 05:59 PM
Plan B is no contact, period. Don't pick and choose MB principles to apply, then they won't work:

Plan B is to avoid all contact with the unfaithful spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 06:00 PM
Ok
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I am dark. I thought plan B included business related stuff?
No you're not dark at all. To be truly dark means absolutely no contact at all. That is why I'm saying you need an IM to pass all business related stuff.

Did you read the Plan B link I sent you? When will you be getting an IM?

If you aren't wanting to fight the affair then why aren't you following through with divorce??

You aren't fighting the affair because you refuse to expose the affair on the OW's side.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 08:29 PM
Yes I read the link. I have an IM now...next time he contacts me for anything I will use my IM. I don't expose the OW because I have no idea who her family is at this point in the day...but looking.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/07/16 08:30 PM
And the divorce is in motion...by him...I don't want the divorce but I can't stop it since I didn't file.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/10/16 05:46 PM
Radio Clip on What Plan B is and When to Use it
Radio Clip on Plan B
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:03 AM
Well...I sent the plan B letter to my WS Facebook friends. OMG...WS is livid...sent me a private msg as well as OW...she didn't know he was married til a lil while ago. I can't say if it ends things but my letter was quite revealing...to include my WS history of domestic violence. She was very apologetic. Acknowledged it as sin. Not sure if it will result in a split....but hoping. How long does it take before reality truly sets in? OW also deleted her FB acct almost immediately.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Well...I sent the plan B letter to my WS Facebook friends. OMG...WS is livid...sent me a private msg as well as OW...she didn't know he was married til a lil while ago. I can't say if it ends things but my letter was quite revealing...to include my WS history of domestic violence. She was very apologetic. Acknowledged it as sin. Not sure if it will result in a split....but hoping. How long does it take before reality truly sets in? OW also deleted her FB acct almost immediately.
You sent the Plan B Letter to his Facebook friends? Why would you send the Plan B Letter to his friends?

What did your letter say? Did you follow the Plan B template?

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:31 AM
Also, how did your WH get a message to you? I thought you were going to get an IM? I thought you had him blocked?

Have you exposed on OW's side yet?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:43 AM
I sent the suggested EXPOSURE 101 letter template tailored to my style. My personal FB is dark. But in order to get a hold of my WS FB friends list I created a fake acct to gain access. While I was in middle of sending out my letter via private FB msg people were telling him and OW.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:44 AM
So he was able to private msg me. Now my fake acct and my personal acct are completely deactivated and dark.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:45 AM
I sent whatever letter is suggested on this site for FB. ...I'm not sure what you call it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:45 AM
The exposure letter?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:46 AM
My letter exposed the affair to their friends.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:46 AM
Now I'm freakin out cuz he was PISSED and she deleted her FB acct. Even if temporarily.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:49 AM
I sent a combination of the Exposure 101 templates.
Posted By: Woundednotbroken Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:54 AM
You did the right thing. Him freaking out is the exposure working. This is what you WANT to happen. The angrier the WS, the more effective the exposure.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 02:17 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My letter exposed the affair to their friends.
Ok so you sent the exposure letter and not the Plan B letter.
I thought you had already exposed on his side??

So who did you expose to on her side? Any family?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 02:27 AM
He's intent on going thru with the divorce. He unfriended the fake FB acct. She deleted hers.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 02:28 AM
Not sure if this backfired. He's angry and more intent that we be done. But no where did WS say he loved her etc...
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 02:43 AM
I did the exposure to only their coworkers...I did not send the plan b letter to them...I sent the exposure letter to their coworkers...I do not have any contact info for the OW family....best I could do was expose to his family and their shared coworkers.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 02:45 AM
I feel GREAT....very empowered
Posted By: black_raven Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
We knew each other over a year before we got married...he is 47 and I am 43...I have a son from a previous marriage...he has no children. I am his 3rd marriage and he is my 2nd. Prior..he was a drug and alcohol addict for 25yrs...he aged out of foster care as a child...and he is 5yrs sober. We were separated in Feb 2015 because I filed a restraining order due to punching holes in doors and breaking one door in half. He admitted during dating that he cheated on his previous wives...but when he got sober he became a born again Christian and he would never go against Gods commandment. I have never had an affair.

Given you had been married less than two years before your violent serial cheating husband walked away, I would not fight this divorce. Your H is not good marriage material given his track record. I hope your child is not a minor and is exposed to him. Sorry but I recommend you cut your losses.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 03:05 AM
I don't disagree
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 03:24 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I feel GREAT....very empowered
Good job on finally exposing.

Now I would get into a dark Plan B and no more contact. Have you seen a lawyer yet? Is the RO still active?

The angrier they are is a sign of a direct hit on exposure.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:04 PM
I have filed my response to the divorce with aid of an atty. Plan b has been in effect...I just finally got up nerve for exposure. He is mad...she is only pissed cuz I outed her and created chaos with her coworkers...but while I was copying and pasting to friends list WS and OW started private messaging me. So there was some contact yesterday. She is apologetic...didn't know WS was married...but now she knows he has an active RO...til next month. It might not chg much because while she didn't know in beginning he was married she does now and 'can't help how she feels about him'....yuck.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:15 PM
WS said he knew of letter to his mom...now the work exposure letter that he is starting to hate me...that divorce can't soon enough..that if OW leaves him we will still be divorced...interesting thing about the few exchanges on private message is that no where did he say how HE felt about her...only how he didn't believe ME about reconciliation. Odd. No where did either mention they loved each other. WS still blames me for everything. Lame. But overall was an interesting exchange between WS and OW...to me..OW is weak link. She deleted her FB page immediately. Probably only temporary...but she got scared and deleted it nonetheless. She was commenting to me from WS FB. I feel it was humiliating to both but it seems more for her. Not sure this will change a darn thing other than the lies my WS was telling to all his coworkers was exposed. But I feel good for getting the truth out there.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:18 PM
I know WS is mad...but he was almost more ambivalent.

How long after exposure does it take for the affair to implode. Because while I could only send to 10 people...those 10 people will undoubtedly talk to others...office gossip kinda thing...so I'm hoping it spreads like wildfire.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:51 PM
I'm scared of fallout. OW friends were livid. Said OW was gonna sue me for slander...tho I said nothing slanderous and OW never mentioned that. But it's scary thinking about potential ramifications.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 01:59 PM
They are blowing smoke. Truth is not slander. I would print the conversation from both of them via his FB so the date and time stamps are included. It is further proof of the affair.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/11/16 02:14 PM
Oh heck ya...I did...incl her part owning it. She claims that after they had sex she found out he is married and she urged him to tell me. Yuck. Who knows...but it didn't deter her from continuing with him despite her claims that she doesn't make it a habit of sleeping with married men. Gross. And she claims she just can't help her feelings for him but neither said love...and WS said nothing about his feelings for her...which after exposure I would've thought he would want to emphasize in retribution for the exposure letter.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/12/16 02:41 AM
I was on such a high yesterday and today about exposing...now I'm feeling down...why is that?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/12/16 02:42 AM
I felt so hopeful...now I'm just kinda blah...weird. I suppose it's normal.
Posted By: reading Re: Devastated - 01/12/16 03:39 AM
OW is livid? (lol)
Stay strong and let anyone who says anything about her suing you hear this

"I will counter sue her for alienation of affection". (even if it isn't allowed in your state....you are not weak nor to be threatened.)

This is text book reaction to being exposed. Wayward and OW become quite nasty in reaction EVERY single time.

You hit bullseye! Good girl!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/12/16 01:00 PM
Thanks. I feel dumb as I was only able to tell 10 of their coworkers of hundreds. But I hope office gossip does rest for me. And they have no idea who I told. Some went straight to them....others said it was wrong to air dirty laundry publicly...others were shocked and had no idea...but office gossip is still office gossip.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/12/16 01:04 PM
But I still feel sad. WS has no intention of ever coming back even if OW leaves him. He IMd me right away. While I was still sending out the message. He even had the balls to let OW IM me from his acct at one point. She has remorse....but clearly not enough to leave my husband alone...prolly cuz he is back peddling something fierce on all the info my exposure letter contained that she did NOT know.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/12/16 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
But I still feel sad. WS has no intention of ever coming back even if OW leaves him. He IMd me right away. While I was still sending out the message. He even had the balls to let OW IM me from his acct at one point. She has remorse....but clearly not enough to leave my husband alone...prolly cuz he is back peddling something fierce on all the info my exposure letter contained that she did NOT know.

Don't let this worry you! It's textbook behavior and talk.

Stick to your guns and don't weaken now. You're doing fine!

Alwayslooking up? KEEP looking up!!!

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/12/16 04:17 PM
Thank you older wiser. I know it's not a quick fix...if ever...but oh to be a fly on the wall in their conversation after that exposure letter hit. I've gone dark again...but then again...he went dark before I ever did. It's just no fun...this ugly weird unstable place I'm in...but I know that at this point...I've done all I can and its now firmly in the Lords hands now...as it's always been...but I've done everything humanly possible and I can hold my head high with dignity and grace.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/13/16 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Thank you older wiser. I know it's not a quick fix...if ever...but oh to be a fly on the wall in their conversation after that exposure letter hit. I've gone dark again...but then again...he went dark before I ever did. It's just no fun...this ugly weird unstable place I'm in...but I know that at this point...I've done all I can and its now firmly in the Lords hands now...as it's always been...but I've done everything humanly possible and I can hold my head high with dignity and grace.

This is the most important part! You have your dignity and did not sell yourself out!

You will eventually find a new "normal." It won't be "life as I knew it" before A was exposed....but it's a new normal. Life will go on, the sun will still rise, and you will find a way to keep slogging along day after day. This is a guarantee. It's just one more way any Affair affects lives.

This is the good part of Plan B. It gives you time to focus on YOUR needs, and build yourself up, and find a way to cope and begin to heal. You're not caught up in all the drama. Enjoy it! Embrace it! This is YOUR time. Use it to get yourself stabalized and strong.

Life will eventually look "normal" again, and you will find ways to cope and continue doing the things that need to get done. Your WS will just have to figure out what he's gotten himself into. And he'll do it by himself! In the meantime, remember that God's got you firmly by the hand!

God Bless,
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/13/16 04:46 AM
What are you doing this week to better enjoy your life? Out with female friends, see the doctor for ADs, change your cell phone and other contact info, exercise,shop for a new apartment, etc. plan B is about taking care of you.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/13/16 01:30 PM
I don't do much for me...don't feel like doing much. I talk on phone to my friends and family. Take my son back and forth to his stuff..etc...but not much. For me I've been focusing on better eating and lost 35lbs...which feels great. I would like to hop on treadmill...but most days I find an excuse not to. Sigh.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/13/16 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I don't do much for me...don't feel like doing much. I talk on phone to my friends and family. Take my son back and forth to his stuff..etc...but not much. For me I've been focusing on better eating and lost 35lbs...which feels great. I would like to hop on treadmill...but most days I find an excuse not to. Sigh.
Have you changed all your contact information?

Go exercise, it will help you feel so much better and plan a dinner or outing with a friend.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/13/16 09:22 PM
No I've not changed any contact info. My cell...email and home phone are all the same.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 01:24 PM
If OW had Facebook why couldn't you find her family to expose to? I know she shut it down (for now), but before you exposed did you capture her contact list?

This is a workplace affair, correct? Why didn't you expose properly as it says in the exposure thread?

Since your WH is violent why haven't you changed all your contact information to protect yourself?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 02:17 PM
Yes I could see her FB list but was unable to see who was her family sine her last name is her former married last name.

I didn't expose to work because I need him employed to pay the truck which is in my name and which he will have to refinance into his name solely or I will have an even bigger problem on my hands. Even Harley cautions against workplace exposure...to think it through. Which I have. Trust me...if his coworkers spread it around as I imagine they will...eventually it will get to a supervisor. If they get fired that way so be it.

I have not changed any contact info because the RO is still in effect and I don't find it necessary to do so at this time.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Even Harley cautions against workplace exposure...to think it through. Which I have. Trust me...if his coworkers spread it around as I imagine they will...eventually it will get to a supervisor. If they get fired that way so be it.

When did he say that? I have been here for 15 years and listen to the radio show every day. Did he make this change yesterday? I missed the end of the show. He has always recommended workplace exposure unless the WS is willing to put in their resignation and leave the job within 30 days. That is the ONLY condition under which it should not be exposed at work.

I don't know your full story, but has your husband put in his 30 day notice?
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:46 PM
Right, that advice only applies to a repentant wayward to give them a brief chance to find a new job.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Which I have. Trust me...if his coworkers spread it around as I imagine they will...eventually it will get to a supervisor. If they get fired that way so be it.

This is meaningless because companies don't act on gossip. I am a supervisor and I will tell you that we do not act on gossip. No one does.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:48 PM
He could have changed his advice yesterday on the last half of the radio show - I missed that part. But here is his stated position:

From Dr Harley's book, Surviving an Affair - pg 71,

"While I unhesitatingly recommend exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children and the lover's spouse, I'm not so quick to suggest exposing it to an employer. That's because such exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim by the unfaithful spouse's lover. Or it might trigger the outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult for them to find another job. So in those cases I usually advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse he or she will expose the affair to the employer in a month if the unfaithful spouse is still working there, giving him or her time to make a graceful exit from the job to another. Even if a new job cannot be found in a month, I recommend waiting no longer to inform the employer, unless the unfaithful spouse has already resigned."
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:51 PM
No he is not putting in notice. He is going full steam ahead with divorce. I googled exposure and Harley and found an article he had written about exposure. In that letter he said workplace is last and should be done with thought about outcome to your own particular situation.

WH and OW have strict no dating rules. They would both be fired. They work for a drug...alcohol...mental illness recovery company and each are recovering addicts. So the rule is understandable.

But for me I can't afford my car and the truck I bought him if he loses his job. Since the truck is in my name it would hurt my credit and security clearance for my job. I can't lose my job because he can't pay the truck. My job requires immaculate credit.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:55 PM
Otherwise I would have NO problem whatsoever about him losing his job...or her. It's strictly a self preservation decision. House...cars...assets...all in my name. I personally can't afford for him to lose his job at this point today. If tmrw he said he had truck in his name...them tmrw I'd send the exposure letter to his and her employer...in a heartbeat.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:57 PM
The threat of them losing their jobs is still there. The exposure letter went to all their friends and coworkers...and if office gossip gets to a supervisor as office gossip usually does...they could both still lose their jobs.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:57 PM
And if that happens...I'm gonna be in a real bind.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 03:59 PM
Did you read my post? Dr Harley ONLY recommends against workplace exposure when the WS has put in his notice.

It is not smart or strategic to skip that exposure if he won't leave the job, because you aren't going to get that support anyway if you are competing against an OW for his income. You aren't going to get all that support in a divorce.

Your best hope comes from him leaving that job and de-fogging. He can get another job where he is not around the OW.

As long as he is still with the OW, he will strive to make sure SHE gets the lionshare of income, not you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I googled exposure and Harley and found an article he had written about exposure. In that letter he said workplace is last and should be done with thought about outcome to your own particular situation.

I showed you above exactly what his position is. He never said workplace exposure should be "last." He said:

Originally Posted by Dr. Bill Harley on Pg 71 in Surviving an Affair
"So in those cases I usually advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse he or she will expose the affair to the employer in a month if the unfaithful spouse is still working there, giving him or her time to make a graceful exit from the job to another. Even if a new job cannot be found in a month, I recommend waiting no longer to inform the employer, unless the unfaithful spouse has already resigned."
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:10 PM
What would I say to him exactly if I sent him a warning email?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:11 PM
How would I even know it's true....if they broke up?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:39 PM
Keep in mind he no longer lives in the home...he's filed for divorce and wants out fast...and him losing his job hurts me. Plus...how would I know one has left the company and they are broken up? He could just say they are broken up. He has his own place...where I don't know. Where would my proof come from?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
What would I say to him exactly if I sent him a warning email?

First off, I think you know he is not going to leave so I don't see the point in emailing him. That condition applies to WS's are actively seeking to save their marriage and are willing to do what it takes to save the marriage. That is not the case here.

My suggestion would be to send a letter to HR and a couple of other key executives telling them about the affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
How would I even know it's true....if they broke up?

All you need to know is that they had an affair and are still working together. You don't need to know the current status of the affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Keep in mind he no longer lives in the home...he's filed for divorce and wants out fast...and him losing his job hurts me. Plus...how would I know one has left the company and they are broken up? He could just say they are broken up. He has his own place...where I don't know. Where would my proof come from?

You send any proof of the affair that you do have. His company will investigate to see what is going on.

Do you believe you will benefit from that job in a divorce? It is important that you understand that you will be competing for his income with the OW. [he wants her to win] That is why you should do everything in your power to kill the affair. Exposure is a major weapon in that endeavor.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 04:53 PM
The company will likely look at his emails, texts and call logs. You don't have to provide all the evidence. They can gather this.

What happens in most cases, though, is they separate the cheaters and don't fire them. Either way you benefit because much of their affair has occurred in the workplace. GEtting them separated helps you.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 05:25 PM
They work in different jobs...different jobs...not together...much of what each does is on the road. Out in the field.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
They work in different jobs...different jobs...not together...much of what each does is on the road. Out in the field.
Do they work at the same company???
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
WH and OW have strict no dating rules. They would both be fired. They work for a drug...alcohol...mental illness recovery company and each are recovering addicts. So the rule is understandable.
^^^so if they have these rules and would both get fired then they were aware of the consequences. They chose to have the affair and chose to put their jobs in jeopardy. Why are you hiding their affair for them?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 06:15 PM
Yes they work for same company but not directly together...to my knowledge.

I'm hesitant only in so much as I need WS employed to pay the truck pymt.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 06:48 PM
Why not sell the truck?
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 06:52 PM
Can't remember, have you seen an attorney?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 07:12 PM
Truck is a 2004 and we owe more than it's worth to sell. It would be a loss on MY dime.

Yes I have an atty and I asked him the risk and ramifications to exposure to work and he said NO.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 07:29 PM
I meant for financial issues, not to ask about exposure.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 08:40 PM
Yes. I have an atty guiding my steps to protect me and my assets.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 08:44 PM
Me exposing to his job opens me up to other ramifications regarding my job and is unwise at this time. What I have done exposing to friends and family and FB is just going to have to be sufficient. But boy do I wish...sigh.

If his coworkers spread it around as I suspect they are....and it gets back to management...so be it.

I agree with the exposure tactics and followed em the best I can given my specific set of parameters.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 09:04 PM
I just wish there was a magic eight ball that could tell me how long after exposure the affair implodes! Wouldn't that be great!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes I have an atty and I asked him the risk and ramifications to exposure to work and he said NO.

My attorney was mad too after I exposed. They will all tell you NO. That's because its easier for them. They are giving you legal advice. My WW filed a TRO violation/harassment case after my exposure at her company. Once my atty saw the TRO violation he actually said to me, "You were trying to save your marriage right? Well looks like your plan is not working."

Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I just wish there was a magic eight ball that could tell me how long after exposure the affair implodes! Wouldn't that be great!

This relationship would end much faster if you just told even one person at their job... especially a person in authority.

But if the truck payment is more important, or you think your other exposure is sufficient, I suppose you could skip work exposure.

In my situation, I could have literally exposed to every single person in the world, but it was not until I exposed at her workplace did I really "hit the mark."
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Truck is a 2004 and we owe more than it's worth to sell. It would be a loss on MY dime.

Yes I have an atty and I asked him the risk and ramifications to exposure to work and he said NO.

That is because an attorney will always tell you no, but that is bad advice, by keeping their secret at work, you enable the affair at your own expense. What gives you the impression that your H will continue to pay your bills?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 09:44 PM
The exposure I did WAS to their friends list at WORK! Also his mom...pastors...my family...but...I was unable to find HER family on her friends list..WAH..nor can I use my work...violation...buuuut...the exposure was to lots of work people who are now sharing with other coworkers as office gossip usually goes
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 10:10 PM
He wants the truck...or he will have no car to drive. He has for it as part of the divorce. He's also been driving it since our separation in Feb 2015 and paying it. But since the divorce is filed the assets can't be messed with so he would still need to continue paying or get in trouble with the courts.

I exposed to dozens of their coworkers and undoubtedly they will be gossiping and spreading it further.

My atty only suggested not to expose to their HR because it opens my job up for problems in open court and that would be bad. I need my job much more than he needs his so I need to protect it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 10:14 PM
Melody I know what you are saying and I have exposed as far and wide as I could. I have to stop there. His job could not even pay a quarter of my bills should I lose my job over him and OW. I can only expose so far without putting me in jeopardy. I agree with you to expose to work...but my job is a bit more sensitive than I'm willing to share any further on an open forum.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 10:42 PM
Im particularly frustrated with the NC rule I've been following. Feels like its just giving WH the time to keep the affair going with no interference. It feels foreign not trying. I know I need to stay dark...but its counter intuitive for sure.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 10:47 PM
It is which is why most people give the wrong and opposing advice. This protects you, which is the main reason for it; but it also forces his OW to meet ALL his needs, which she can't do.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 10:49 PM
Well apparently she's doing just fine. WH has no intention of coming back even if she leaves him he said.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 10:58 PM
For now...
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 11:00 PM
Patience is not my virtue. I'm just having a tough time. Not only the initial shock of D day but his choice in OW who can only be described physically as hideous. Just so shocking.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Patience is not my virtue. I'm just having a tough time. Not only the initial shock of D day but his choice in OW who can only be described physically as hideous. Just so shocking.

I hear you one that one... While it is probable that the OM in my situation makes more money than me - he is scum of the Earth. He is not attractive (in my hetero eyes). Every picture I have seen of him disgusts me... and he likes Norte Dame, GROSS.

People affair down... me and you are experiencing that unfortunately. frown

Keep your head up, it sounds like your exposure was good. Like you, patience is not my strongest feature... so, do not be patient. Start being a new you as soon as possible. I know its tough... some days I feel like I have done nothing different with my life, but others I feel like I did good.

Praying for you Alwayslookingup
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 11:26 PM
Wrestling. I'm not racist. Let me just say that right up front. But...my WS and I are white. The OW is dark black. She looks very worn and very hood. I can describe her no other way. She is no Halle Berry. She looks rode hard and put away wet. She looks like a woman who has seen a hard life...like a gang banger. Tattoos all over. Just suuuuper unattractive. I had no idea my husband was attracted to other cultures. I know the affair is not about color...its just so utterly shocking.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 11:35 PM
I feel bad even saying those things about her. But I can't help feeling disgusted by every aspect of this situation including her appearance. It's nauseating.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Im particularly frustrated with the NC rule I've been following. Feels like its just giving WH the time to keep the affair going with no interference. It feels foreign not trying. I know I need to stay dark...but its counter intuitive for sure.
Have you read SAA?? Women "chasing" men doesn't make the woman look attractive and men don't like that. It is different for men.

Have you listened to MB radio?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/14/16 11:38 PM
What is SAA and no I have not listened to the radio.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
What is SAA and no I have not listened to the radio.
The book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 12:55 AM
No I have not read that. I read Dobson Love Must Be Tough
Posted By: markos Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 01:17 AM
If you want to survive this affair, I'm going to tell you what Dr. Harley's son Steve said to me: you need to embark on a program of education about Marriage Builders principles. There is a wealth of information here and you need to get very occupied in reading it, listening to it, and learning it, so you will be ready and you will be able to survive.

Definitely get the Marriage Builders app and start listening to the radio show, daily - I cannot emphasize this enough. Also get the book Surviving an Affair and view the video about infidelity here on this site.

Dr. Harley has specialized in infidelity for decades, with great success.
Posted By: markos Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 01:20 AM
You can get the Surviving an Affair ebook off of Amazon and be reading immediately.

The Marriage Builders Radio app is here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html You can also listen to the program on your computer. There is one show each weekday and it is available repeated for 24 hours at any time until the next show comes out. It's like a free session from the counseling profession's foremost expert on infidelity, every day.

The infidelity video is here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi1000_video.html

Stupid question, but have you read the Basic Concepts?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 01:20 AM
Ok..thx!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 07:39 PM
Bought the book...and got started on it. The waiting if ever for this A to implode is trying my every last nerve of patience I have little of to begin with...grrrrrr
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Bought the book...and got started on it. The waiting if ever for this A to implode is trying my every last nerve of patience I have little of to begin with...grrrrrr
Sometimes the affair will die a natural death and we've seen those take up to 2+ years.

You need to work on you and cleaning up your side of the street and personal healing. MB can teach you recovery whether it be marital or personal recovery.

Have you thought about emailing Dr. Harley?? It's free.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 07:54 PM
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.
Posted By: markos Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by markos
You can get the Surviving an Affair ebook off of Amazon and be reading immediately.

The Marriage Builders Radio app is here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html You can also listen to the program on your computer. There is one show each weekday and it is available repeated for 24 hours at any time until the next show comes out. It's like a free session from the counseling profession's foremost expert on infidelity, every day.

The infidelity video is here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi1000_video.html

Stupid question, but have you read the Basic Concepts?
Posted By: markos Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Bought the book...and got started on it. The waiting if ever for this A to implode is trying my every last nerve of patience I have little of to begin with...grrrrrr

Do you have your Plan B preparations in place yet? Plan B is required to be able to weather the stress of the waiting.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 08:58 PM
I bought the book on download to my kindle. I'm on ch 3. I am already in plan B with NC in effect.

I have not emailed my question to Harley as I don't know what I would ask that is different than what all you are answering for me. Sigh.

2yrs? OMG...how depressing...ill be divorced in less than 4mo...and that's IF I can stall it out that long.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I bought the book on download to my kindle. I'm on ch 3. I am already in plan B with NC in effect.

I have not emailed my question to Harley as I don't know what I would ask that is different than what all you are answering for me. Sigh.

2yrs? OMG...how depressing...ill be divorced in less than 4mo...and that's IF I can stall it out that long.
Do you really want to stay in this marriage if he doesn't make the changes that are needed?

Dr. Harley says a WH needs to come back on bended knee with hat in hand if he is serious about recovering his marriage.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by markos
If you want to survive this affair, I'm going to tell you what Dr. Harley's son Steve said to me: you need to embark on a program of education about Marriage Builders principles. There is a wealth of information here and you need to get very occupied in reading it, listening to it, and learning it, so you will be ready and you will be able to survive.

Definitely get the Marriage Builders app and start listening to the radio show, daily - I cannot emphasize this enough. Also get the book Surviving an Affair and view the video about infidelity here on this site.

Dr. Harley has specialized in infidelity for decades, with great success.

I second this advice!

These concepts are proven tried and true. They are counter-intuitive, so a lot of people DO NOT follow them word for word. However, if you do, they are successful to make you a better person, and more able to strengthen your marriage (be it to your current spouse, or a different one - no one can know the future, can we?).

That said, let me also advise you: Once I got totally involved in reading and learning the concepts on here, and wanting to better ME, the time flew by! I stopped obsessing on what WH might be doing, whether they were still together, what his family/friends thought or did, etc. It just simply DID NOT MATTER! I was focusing on ME, and fixing ME! I was a mess....not excusing H's A, but it explained a lot of my responsibility and part in the break-up. Looking back now, it's pretty hard to believe it was truly a full THREE YEARS that we were apart - and two divorced - but it was.

God is able to "Give back what the locust has stolen..." so no worries on that part! HE made a way where none appeared to be, and following these concepts made life bearable for me in the meantime, and helped correct the way we related to each other in the long run. See, I think most people just jump into marriage with NO (or little, or WRONG) marriage counseling, so they don't really know how to meet each others' emotional needs, or fill up LB....all the things the Harley's are very good at explaining.

Studying and learning that stuff made it all make sense for me, and WH, when he returned, was more than willing to learn as well! Keep learning, reading and asking questions. It'll help YOU stay strong!

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/15/16 09:52 PM
Thank yoy...I'm trying!

And yes I would like reconciliation..but only if WH comes back repented and on bended knee. I'm worth it.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/16/16 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Thank yoy...I'm trying!

And yes I would like reconciliation..but only if WH comes back repented and on bended knee. I'm worth it.
Since you've been separated, has your WH been in anger management?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 02:08 AM
No
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 02:31 AM
Sooooooo last Sunday was friends exposure of WH and OW. Fast forward to today. I still have not received the truck and insurance payment. I emailed him and asked if had sent it. His response...."I want proof you're paying truck and insurance payments"

WTH?

Really? The only money he gives me is the truck pymt that is solely in MY name...yes I pay it! Hello....what is this all about? Some sort of retribution for last weekends exposure? Plus the pastor texted me and said he didn't go to his Celebrate Recovery meeting last night. Wondering if all this is related to the exposure or just him being a pill.
Posted By: living_well Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 12:30 PM
Sell the truck. You will feel so much better once you have done that and he will no longer be able to pull this stunt. If you do not put a stop to this, it will escalate.

I know there is a shortfall on the payments but you can find some other things to sell to cover this or take a bank loan. A new credit card often comes with a year of free credit. He is trying to control you. It is within your power to prevent that.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 02:58 PM
I need to ask my atty. Because when I was served the paperwork said nothing can be done with assets now. So if he doesn't pay I might need to go to court. The truck is the ONLY asset he wants so why not pay it...he's been paying it since we separated...
Update: He emailed back last night saying if I give him our old joint checking number he might be able to go into bank and deposit directly into the acct.

I'm not keen on that idea. Then OW could see stuff...not like she might be seeing stuff already but....he could go into bank and have them call me and I give permission for him to pay it....or hey...here's an idea...WH is 47yrs old....plan to send the check and prevent all this to begin with...grrrrrrrrrrrrr
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 03:18 PM
Is there any money left in that account?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 03:25 PM
No. It was our old joint acct. I have not closed it yet but he took himself off of it when he filed for divorce.

I'm not sure why he's playing games now. The truck is in my name only or I wouldn't care. But he drives it and wants it as part of the divorce so why he's being a jerk now befuddles me.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 03:28 PM
BTW....he has always paid it since we separated...so to start acting this way now is odd. I guess I was thinking it was retaliation to last weekends exposure letter to their friends and coworkers...but it could be that he's now struggling financially...it could be a way to stay connected...it could be anything really...I just don't get it.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Sooooooo last Sunday was friends exposure of WH and OW. Fast forward to today. I still have not received the truck and insurance payment. I emailed him and asked if had sent it. His response...."I want proof you're paying truck and insurance payments"

WTH?

Really? The only money he gives me is the truck pymt that is solely in MY name...yes I pay it! Hello....what is this all about? Some sort of retribution for last weekends exposure? Plus the pastor texted me and said he didn't go to his Celebrate Recovery meeting last night. Wondering if all this is related to the exposure or just him being a pill.
So you're still not going to get an IM?? You're not following Plan B and you broke Plan B and you got his nasty message and now you're spinning.

When will you start following MB?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
BTW....he has always paid it since we separated...so to start acting this way now is odd. I guess I was thinking it was retaliation to last weekends exposure letter to their friends and coworkers...but it could be that he's now struggling financially...it could be a way to stay connected...it could be anything really...I just don't get it.
Nope this is typical wayward behaviour. You need to talk to your lawyer and get the finances separated. If he wants the truck then he needs to get it into his name. You're still enabling him.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 04:38 PM
The truck is the only asset he wants from the marriage. It just happens to be in my name.

Yes...I need an IM...I was thinking if he made this months pymt without a reminder or an IM which would be the only contact necessary...then I wouldn't need the IM. But you're right...I need the IM. This is just ridiculous .
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 04:38 PM
All other finances are separated...nothing is joint.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The truck is the only asset he wants from the marriage. It just happens to be in my name.

Yes...I need an IM...I was thinking if he made this months pymt without a reminder or an IM which would be the only contact necessary...then I wouldn't need the IM. But you're right...I need the IM. This is just ridiculous .
Having this truck is away to keep in contact. You'll never heal or get over the anger when you're still in contact with him. Every contact you have puts you back to square one.

Your WH isn't close for recovery at all, and you need to protect yourself. I know you want to save the marriage, but I'm sorry but your WH doesn't. Wild horses couldn't keep a spouse back from a truly repentant/remorseful spouse doing what it takes to recover.

When will you be getting that IM? When will you speak to your lawyer about the truck?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 05:02 PM
I'll call the atty on Tuesday...ill get the IM today if I can find someone who is willing.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'll call the atty on Tuesday...ill get the IM today if I can find someone who is willing.
Good girl. All your IM needs to do is act as a filter and not send any "wayward talk" your way.

Send your IM the IM training link. It's in the How to Plan B correctly link. You have that, correct?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 06:58 PM
No I don't have that link. Can you paste it here please?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/17/16 07:00 PM
Here you go and the IM training link is in this thread, it's the second post.

How to Plan B Correctly
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/19/16 08:48 PM
I'm frustrated in the waiting. I keep busy...do stuff to stay focused on other things...but this whole affair is never far from my mind and I hate that.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/20/16 11:53 PM
My WH keeps sending me emails. I try not to respond. There is no mention of OW...but it still hurts to see the vitriolic crap ramblings to how he just can't come back to me...uhmmmmmm okkkkk. Ugh.

I have no takers on anyone wanting to be an IM. The people that know want to stay neutral. Which I can understand as everyone is still praying for reconciliation.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My WH keeps sending me emails. I try not to respond. There is no mention of OW...but it still hurts to see the vitriolic crap ramblings to how he just can't come back to me...uhmmmmmm okkkkk. Ugh.

I have no takers on anyone wanting to be an IM. The people that know want to stay neutral. Which I can understand as everyone is still praying for reconciliation.
This is why you need to change your contact information. They want to stay neutral, but they don't want to help you avoid his abuse? Have you explained Plan B to them?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:31 AM
Well it doesn't matter. I just got another email from WH saying that he's done...that if we weren't done he'd never have started another relationship...that even if there wasn't the OW we would still be divorced...see you in court.

Sigh. Blows my hope into teeeny tiny pieces.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:37 AM
It's fog talk, it's the same script for all of them! DOn't listen to it, or be affected by it.

This is why when you are in Plan B, you're better off (emotionally speaking), NOT talking to or seeing your WS.

My BFF was willing to pray me through it, she was totally on my side. That said, however, she loves us both, and would have willingly been my IM, if I had needed one....once I found these concepts and let her know I was working to restore my M.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:41 AM
I am just in tears. I know it may be fog talk but it's the same script he keeps running. He says he's not trying to be mean and hateful just factual. It hurts so bad. I've been on my knees in prayer since D day. While I've seen some answers to prayer...the softening of WH heart is not one of them. He has no intention of coming back. And I hurt.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:46 AM
Right, he just feels the need to state"facts" over and over in the most brutal way possible.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:48 AM
God will not take his free will. So if I go off his words as if they are fact...we will be divorced in 3mo.

It just hurts right now. So definitive...so real...so final.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I am just in tears. I know it may be fog talk but it's the same script he keeps running. He says he's not trying to be mean and hateful just factual. It hurts so bad. I've been on my knees in prayer since D day. While I've seen some answers to prayer...the softening of WH heart is not one of them. He has no intention of coming back. And I hurt.

I know, hun.

I wish I could just reach through the computer and give you a big hug! YOu deserve it!

I am praying for you....this is not easy. You need to stay close to God. None of us can get through this alone. I know I never would have survived this (mentally, emotionally OR spiritually) without God holding onto me!

God Bless,
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
God will not take his free will. So if I go off his words as if they are fact...we will be divorced in 3mo.

It just hurts right now. So definitive...so real...so final.

Remember, "God can open doors no man can close, and God can close doors no man can open."

Free will or not - remember GOD IS IN CONTROL! He holds you in His hands.....remember that! It'll all work out for the best FOR YOU.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
God will not take his free will. So if I go off his words as if they are fact...we will be divorced in 3mo.

It just hurts right now. So definitive...so real...so final.
You really need to quit reading his emails if you're not going to get an IM. You will keep feeling this way and not heal AT ALL.

I can't keep stating how much you need a dark Plan B. Keeping in contact with a wayward is only going to hurt your mental and emotional state. You reading his emails in hoping he has changed only does you harm. Do you not understand this???
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:05 AM
Thanks. Hard to be strong and stand in the gap for my marriage when I read the great big heaping pile of crap.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Thanks. Hard to be strong and stand in the gap for my marriage when I read the great big heaping pile of crap.
This is why you need to STOP reading them.

Have you explained Plan B to your friends and explained how you need it to heal and they still won't be an IM?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:09 AM
You're right Brain...it does keep me in a state of hurt in hoping that I read something hopeful.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:13 AM
We were only in contact over the one thing we have in common. The truck pymt...which was due today...and NOT paid...he didn't have time. It's like he's using the truck as his way of keeping in contact. If I go off script even a little in not being strictly business he smashes me with nastiness. Why? I've been nothing but nice since D day and I think it pisses him off worse.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:17 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
We were only in contact over the one thing we have in common. The truck pymt...which was due today...and NOT paid...he didn't have time. It's like he's using the truck as his way of keeping in contact. If I go off script even a little in not being strictly business he smashes me with nastiness. Why? I've been nothing but nice since D day and I think it pisses him off worse.
Because he is wayward and only cares about himself. You must start protecting yourself.

Have you explained Plan B to your friends and family?? And no one will help you be an email filter?? For your health??
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:18 AM
Yes I've explained it. But the people that know are close friends and family. SAA book says it shouldn't be close people.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:20 AM
Ive had no contact for weeks...only once a month for a couple days regarding the truck pymt...that's it. No other common bills...no kids together. Just the truck.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:25 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
We were only in contact over the one thing we have in common. The truck pymt...which was due today...and NOT paid...he didn't have time. It's like he's using the truck as his way of keeping in contact. If I go off script even a little in not being strictly business he smashes me with nastiness. Why? I've been nothing but nice since D day and I think it pisses him off worse.

One of the things that amazed me in reading about all the BS's, was how SIMILAR all the stories were! Believe it or not, this gave me hope! My WH was just caught up in the A, and following the script to the letter. The result for me was that I was able to maintain my sanity by staying above it all, and NOT letting it get to me! It was expected behavior, and I understood that this was an alien....so not to get caught up in it, and get more and more depressed. Don't get me wrong! I was depressed - at first. I was confused - at first. I was angry - you get the idea! But once I got to this site, and read everything....and lots of other people's situations, I realized how much similarity there was. It truly gave me hope. THIS MANY PEOPLE - who were telling success stories about their marriages saved - couldn't all be lying about it! lol

Finally, let me ask something you've been asked before. Why can you not sell the truck? Yes, I've read - he's driving it, he needs it, he's supposed to be making the payments, blah, blah. Well, he's NOT. And it's making you angry and depressed. Hun, you've got to get OVER this truck thing. You've got to shed yourself of everything that is tying you to him in his current state.

He's angry. Too bad. This is HIS mess, not yours! HE is the one not living up to the agreement to make the truck payment, so if it gets taken away from him, that's part of the consequences of his bad choices. He'll get over it, he'll make new arrangements. And truthfully? Can he be any more "angry" at you, and hurtful than he's trying to be right now?

You need to protect YOU right now. If that means get financially secure by tightening up your finances, so be it. Please consider what needs to happen with that truck. It is YOUR responsibility, and right now, those are decisions YOU need to make. Your husband is visiting an alien planet. DO NOT count on him making rational decisions.
Posted By: markos Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
You're right Brain...it does keep me in a state of hurt in hoping that I read something hopeful.

In Plan B you don't see or talk to him until he agrees to end contact with the affair partner and follow a plan of marital reconciliation.

So if they haven't done that, you don't read what they write.

If you are reading what your spouse writes, you're not doing the program (YNDTP).

The recovery program works when followed, and we want you to recover!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:30 AM
The truck is in my name ONLY. He is not on it. The divorce is filed therefore I cannot sell it or do anything with the assets of which the truck is one. I can't make two car pymts. Yet I can't have it be late either or it will ding my credit...which I can't have for my job. That's the only reason I've been in contact.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:33 AM
Everything but the truck is dark..NC...but I slipped up today talking about how I've been praying for reconciliation. Big mistake. Slammed in an epic way really hurt.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:33 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The truck is in my name ONLY. He is not on it. The divorce is filed therefore I cannot sell it or do anything with the assets of which the truck is one. I can't make two car pymts. Yet I can't have it be late either or it will ding my credit...which I can't have for my job. That's the only reason I've been in contact.

You probably need to talk to both your lawyer and the loan company holding the paper on the truck about this. Can you call both of them tomorrow and try to resolve this?

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it's not helping your mental state at all.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:36 AM
Credit union said he has to apply to refinance it into his name. Court isn't til 3/3 for mediation so until we get permission to mess around with it I am stuck dealing with his crap.
Posted By: markos Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The truck is in my name ONLY. He is not on it. The divorce is filed therefore I cannot sell it or do anything with the assets of which the truck is one. I can't make two car pymts. Yet I can't have it be late either or it will ding my credit...which I can't have for my job. That's the only reason I've been in contact.

Hospitalization because your dirtbag wayward spouse drove you nuts is also bad for your credit and your career.

YNDTP

At Marriage Builders we list the obstacles that make it difficult for us to follow the plans - and then we develop plans to OVERCOME them. We don't just say "I can't do the plan." People who do that don't recover.

YES, there are things that make it difficult for you to follow the plan, so you have to take note of that and figure out HOW to follow the plan.

You are not going to recover if you don't follow the plan. You are going to end up sick, crazy, nuts, or dead.

This is not a support forum for people to not do the plan - this is a place where we encourage each other to keep problem solving, solve the problems, and follow the plan.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The truck is in my name ONLY. He is not on it. The divorce is filed therefore I cannot sell it or do anything with the assets of which the truck is one. I can't make two car pymts. Yet I can't have it be late either or it will ding my credit...which I can't have for my job. That's the only reason I've been in contact.

Hospitalization because your dirtbag wayward spouse drove you nuts is also bad for your credit and your career.

YNDTP

At Marriage Builders we list the obstacles that make it difficult for us to follow the plans - and then we develop plans to OVERCOME them. We don't just say "I can't do the plan." People who do that don't recover.

YES, there are things that make it difficult for you to follow the plan, so you have to take note of that and figure out HOW to follow the plan.

You are not going to recover if you don't follow the plan. You are going to end up sick, crazy, nuts, or dead.

This is not a support forum for people to not do the plan - this is a place where we encourage each other to keep problem solving, solve the problems, and follow the plan.

Yes. THIS!!!

You cannot make him refinance the truck.

Right now, it's YOUR truck. You can do whatever YOU want to do with it.

Make the decisions best for YOU. Period.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
but I slipped up today talking about how I've been praying for reconciliation.

Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Thanks. Hard to be strong and stand in the gap for my marriage when I read the great big heaping pile of crap.


Hi Alwayslookingup. I have been following your story. ((Hugs))

What do you mean by this?

Why do you feel it is your responsibility to stand in a gap (what gap?) for your marriage when your husband has left you?

Is this referring to a doctrinal belief that you may never remarry anyone but your original "covenant spouse"? And that you need to pray for reconciliation to your original covenant spouse for the rest of your life while you "stand in the gap" for him until he returns?

If so, this belief may be hampering your ability to detach well enough to implement a better plan B.

I am a Christian also, and went through quite a spiritual journey to learn that the doctrines regarding divorce I had been taught (and then further assumed to be correct myself) were far more simplistic than the Bible's teaching. The more I studied - and I spent 100's of hours on it! - the more my studies led me to understand that Dr. Harley's methods and teachings about marriage and divorce (which to me initially seemed very liberal) were actually deeply and correctly biblical.

If you are a "stander", most of them are very fervent in their beliefs - and sincerely so - but they are looking at the issue without pulling the WHOLE counsel of the Bible together. There is much more dimension in the Bible about the marital relationship than the Matthew verse about committing adultery if you marry another. Much much more dimension.

In that case, then I also wanted to alert those helping you that you may need some help or extra propping in this area.

Originally Posted by markos
You are not going to recover if you don't follow the plan. You are going to end up sick, crazy, nuts, or dead.

Truly - like markos said, you will drive yourself nuts and hurt yourself if you are spending any mental energy on standing in a gap instead of following the plan. I can speak from experience of being so held up by my doctrines that I damaged my health by wavering around.

If you are not a stander, then my apologies for interjecting.
Posted By: living_well Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The truck is in my name ONLY. He is not on it. The divorce is filed therefore I cannot sell it or do anything with the assets of which the truck is one. I can't make two car pymts. Yet I can't have it be late either or it will ding my credit...which I can't have for my job. That's the only reason I've been in contact.


You are wrong about that. You absolutely can sell the truck. What you cannot do is take the proceeds as personal property and not use then to pay off the debt because the proceeds are marital. Nothing in the divorce filing says that all assets are frozen, just that marital assets are identified as such and need to be divided.

In any case, this truck is not an asset because you owe more on it than it is worth. Go to the company that sold it to you or to the lender and see what you can work out with them. If you can make this cash neutral, you will come out smelling like a rose to the divorce court.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 12:57 PM
I will ask my atty about selling it. Thanks!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 01:04 PM
No we don't have a covenant marriage. I'm just a Christian woman who believes in marriage and not giving up hope for reconciliation. I am realistic in that if we divorce ...I won't be pining away for WH.

I have been doing plan B. I don't have an IM...and since the only contact I needed from him was for the truck pymt...I thought I could handle it...WRONG!
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
We knew each other over a year before we got married...he is 47 and I am 43...I have a son from a previous marriage...he has no children. I am his 3rd marriage and he is my 2nd. Prior..he was a drug and alcohol addict for 25yrs...he aged out of foster care as a child...and he is 5yrs sober. We were separated in Feb 2015 because I filed a restraining order due to punching holes in doors and breaking one door in half. He admitted during dating that he cheated on his previous wives...but when he got sober he became a born again Christian and he would never go against Gods commandment. I have never had an affair.
This history is horrifying.

How did your first marriage end? How old is your son? Do you have any contact with his father?

Why did his two previous marriages end? How long did each of them last?

I don't understand the sentence "he aged out of foster care when he was a child" - please explain.

What led to the incident where he punched holes in doors? Has he been violent at any other time before or since? When did the restraining order end, or is it still in force? Did you impose any conditions in order for him to return home - such as anger management training?

How do you know for sure that he has been sober for 5 years? Is he in AA and NA? How do you know he is not using now that you are separated?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:09 PM
My first marriage ended After my german husband got hid green card. He also cheated.

My son from first marriage does not see his father...never. My son is 14 yrs old.

WH first marriage was at 18yrs old and didn't last long. His second marriage was approx 5yrs. All ended as all involved were heavily involved in drugs and alcohol.

My husband was placed in foster care at 6yrs old and didn't leave the foster care system until he turned 18yrs old.

We were fighting over mundane stuff...time...finances...etc...I was in his face he in mine and he punched holes in two doors and kicked in half off the hinges a third door...that is what lead to the restraining order in Feb 2015 and separation.

Yes he has prior domestic violence charges. However he had said they were prior to getting sober and becoming a Christian. I never saw any anger signs in over a year of dating.

The RO is still in effect for about another 3wks.

No there is no anger mgmt class condition at this time.

My WH works in drug addiction industry helping others get sober. While we were together I never saw him drink or do drugs. But since we've been separated I don't know for sure. I venture to guess that he's still sober with the exception of the affair high.

He does celebrate recovery...the Christian equivalent of AA...though his pastor says since Nov when the affair was discovered...he goes sporadically. He also said he had not been going regularly prior to that assuming that the affair was building up to the sexual nature it became in Nov.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My first marriage ended After my german husband got hid green card. He also cheated.

My son from first marriage does not see his father...never. My son is 14 yrs old.

WH first marriage was at 18yrs old and didn't last long. His second marriage was approx 5yrs. All ended as all involved were heavily involved in drugs and alcohol.

My husband was placed in foster care at 6yrs old and didn't leave the foster care system until he turned 18yrs old.

We were fighting over mundane stuff...time...finances...etc...I was in his face he in mine and he punched holes in two doors and kicked in half off the hinges a third door...that is what lead to the restraining order in Feb 2015 and separation.

Yes he has prior domestic violence charges. However he had said they were prior to getting sober and becoming a Christian. I never saw any anger signs in over a year of dating.

The RO is still in effect for about another 3wks.

No there is no anger mgmt class condition at this time.

My WH works in drug addiction industry helping others get sober. While we were together I never saw him drink or do drugs. But since we've been separated I don't know for sure. I venture to guess that he's still sober with the exception of the affair high.

He does celebrate recovery...the Christian equivalent of AA...though his pastor says since Nov when the affair was discovered...he goes sporadically. He also said he had not been going regularly prior to that assuming that the affair was building up to the sexual nature it became in Nov.
So his violence, and a restraining order, came in less than two years of marriage, and now he is not maintaining any behavioural programme to stay clean and sober - which means he is neither. He had charges for violence against his previous wife when he was using, and now he has one against you. By his own logic, that suggests that he is using again.

He is not maintaining his lifestyle as a born-again Christian who is doing all he must do to stay clean and sober - and he is in an affair. Even if the affair ends today, he is still a violent, drug-abusing, active alcoholic.

If you have not already sent a Plan B letter saying that he needs to end the affair and get into, and maintain attendance at, behavioural programmes for substances AND for anger management, before you will consider talking to him about reconciliation, you should send one as soon as you have an IM in place.

Do what you have been advised about selling the truck, and stop using your completely unnecessary paralysis about the truck as a means of staying in contact with him.

He is very bad news, not just because he is in an affair. His untreated violence and substance abuse mean that he is not fit to be married to anybody - he is dangerous.

Get into Plan B and let the divorce go through. If he comes back with proof that he is clean, sober and in control of his anger, you can consider taking him back - but give up on this unless all those issues, as well as the affair, are dealt with.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 02:38 PM
Ok
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No we don't have a covenant marriage. I'm just a Christian woman who believes in marriage and not giving up hope for reconciliation. I am realistic in that if we divorce ...I won't be pining away for WH.

I have been doing plan B. I don't have an IM...and since the only contact I needed from him was for the truck pymt...I thought I could handle it...WRONG!

Thanks for clarifying. God does not believe in marriage when a husband deals with his wife treacherously. He hates that treachery causes divorce.

The Malachi verse which is translated "God hates divorce" in some Bible versions is so misquoted. He hates divorce because he hates the treachery that caused it.

Marriage at all costs to the victim, including the cost of your health, is not a good thing to believe in. Instead, boundaries are Biblical, and are much better for you, too.

Thanks for answering. You will do yourself a favor to find a way to follow the dark plan B; perhaps the pastor who kicked your WH out of the church when his affair was exposed might be a good prospect as an IM?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 04:14 PM
I have not asked that pastor to be an IM as he is the pastor of the celebrate recovery ministry and they had once been close. This pastor is slowly trying to rebuild that relationship as my WH was at CR two times in the past three weeks. WH didn't go last Friday.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I have not asked that pastor to be an IM as he is the pastor of the celebrate recovery ministry and they had once been close. This pastor is slowly trying to rebuild that relationship as my WH was at CR two times in the past three weeks. WH didn't go last Friday.

Do you have a friend who would agree to be neutral and serve as a spam filter for you? It is the easiest job in the world if done right.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:23 PM
So far no. Parents don't want to be that person in case he comes back. Both friends also want to preserve any relationship tho all see its value. No one wants to do it in the event he returns...plus most those friends and family that DO know are ANGRY themselves with him and don't want their anger to show through. So...so far no impartial takers on being an IM. sigh.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:29 PM
If anyone on MB is willing to be an IM I am open to that idea? I know it would be awkward tho.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
So far no. Parents don't want to be that person in case he comes back. Both friends also want to preserve any relationship tho all see its value. No one wants to do it in the event he returns...plus most those friends and family that DO know are ANGRY themselves with him and don't want their anger to show through. So...so far no impartial takers on being an IM. sigh.

Always, the expectation is not to BE impartial but to BE neutral in their dealings with him. All they are expected to do is filter communications between you. For example, if your H sends a long tirade but includes some critical financial information, they would send you an email that might say:

"Alwayslooikingup, Joe advises that he will be forwarding you a tax form."

And then the response to your WH:

"thanks Joe, in accordance to Alway's instructions I will forward her the information about the tax form. thank you"
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:29 PM
Not sure how a perfect stranger would be received by WH tho
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:31 PM
I view an IM who has impartial feelings to be a problem, because a person who feels "impartial" about adultery has a character defect. The objective is to protect you and just act as an impartial spam filter.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Not sure how a perfect stranger would be received by WH tho

Any IM will not be received favorably by your H. That is the expectation. He will first REFUSE to deal with him/her.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:35 PM
I'm not one with a large friend circle. I don't have lots or any for that matter who are willing. They are all very angry and disappointed in him and his continued foolishness. No one is ok with his affair and divorce filing. But those in my circle are all close friends and family.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:35 PM
No one is impartial...those that know are very angry and disgusted.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No one is impartial...those that know are very angry and disgusted.

AS they should be. NOW. Will any one of them agree to PRESENT a neutral front and serve as an IM?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:38 PM
Do you have any friends or family who can exercise self control and serve as a spam filter for you?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:39 PM
No that is what I'm saying. I've asked them all...they do not want to make it worse...they do not feel impartial. And understandably so.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:42 PM
In fact...they all see the truck as just handling business. But in me doing that it backfired in an epic way last night. I got handed an ugly platter of crap and felt totally broken last night.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No that is what I'm saying. I've asked them all...they do not want to make it worse...they do not feel impartial. And understandably so.

So not one of them would help you out and just facilitate communication in a neutral way? I understand that none FEEL impartial, that is an expectation. But we are not asking them to FEEL impartial, just to behave in that way.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:48 PM
Well...they've all said no. All 5 of them.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:49 PM
I was on phone last night and this morning asking.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:50 PM
What did you say to them?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:50 PM
I told them what they would have to do according to the link you or someone else posted.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:53 PM
My parents and pastor are out...that's three people right there. The other one is my "aunt" she said no. My friend doesn't think she should get involved and my cousin it down right hateful and said she can't be impartial...and she can't...lol
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I told them what they would have to do according to the link you or someone else posted.

The responses you posted above give me the feeling that they don't understand the job. It is really the easiest job in the world if done right. All they have to do is pass on pertinent communication to you. And there should be very little.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 05:56 PM
I read em the post about IM job. They are more hateful than me. I haven't had feelings of hate...sadness...pity...hurt...devastation...but not hate. Anger comes up in me when I think of WH and the gangsta hood rat OW....and when dealing with my truck. But otherwise I'm doing OK.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I read em the post about IM job. They are more hateful than me. I haven't had feelings of hate...sadness...pity...hurt...devastation...but not hate. Anger comes up in me when I think of WH and the gangsta hood rat OW....and when dealing with my truck. But otherwise I'm doing OK.

How about asking your close friend to do it? Tell her understand she hates him but ask her if she could PRESENT a neutral front on your behalf?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:10 PM
I can try...again. But it was a resounding no way Jose last night
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:12 PM
You want to do it Melody? Ha!

You have no skin in the game and seem to know exactly what to do...LOL!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I can try...again. But it was a resounding no way Jose last night

I would try to look for ways to make this work instead of reasons why it can't work. I am sure your friend wants to help, right? No one is asking her to rid herself of her bitterness. The only ask is that she ACT in a neutral way when dealing with him on your behalf.

When I am an IM, I feel deep revulsion for the WS, but I can still maintain a neutral front for the sake of the BS.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
You want to do it Melody? Ha!

You have no skin in the game and seem to know exactly what to do...LOL!

I wish I could, but my husband is definitely not enthusiatic about my being an IM! I do help other IMs and would be glad to help yours if you can find someone.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:24 PM
My cousin who hates him just said she would....but only via text...her email is down
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:37 PM
Melody send me the IM link again please!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:38 PM
I will send to my cousin in link form
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:55 PM
Well that went downhill fast. My WH blocked her number so she couldn't text him. Guess he doesn't like an IM. Sigh. Now what?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Well that went downhill fast. My WH blocked her number so she couldn't text him. Guess he doesn't like an IM. Sigh. Now what?

Wait a minute. Did you send him a Plan B letter? You are really jumping the gun here.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 06:59 PM
Yes...long time ago
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:00 PM
Tho that letter didn't have a plan for an IM
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:01 PM
It wasn't necessary at the time since he was paying the truck...but after the last couple days my friends and family and ME see its value. At least my cousin is trying.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:15 PM
WH is refusing all contact with my IM.

He just emailed me as well telling me he was blocking all communication from her and that WE can just keep it business.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:18 PM
Do I email him back and tell him no more emails from me? If he doesn't use my IM there will no more responses?
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:31 PM
Close your old email account and start a new one.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:32 PM
In fact, change all your contact info and the locks so he can't get access to you.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:34 PM
Have the IM set up another new account, send it from the current account telling him it is your new email. Then close your current email. He doesn't need to know that the account of ou send him is run by your IM.

If he can't get to you, he will use the IM account or the attorney.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:38 PM
WH doesn't have an atty. My atty is legal advice and document prep only...he is not on retainer.

Good idea about fake email acct for IM.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Do I email him back and tell him no more emails from me? If he doesn't use my IM there will no more responses?

Send him a Plan B letter that goes something like this:

My Dearest __________,

This is a very hard letter to send, but I feel I must do it in order to protect myself.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan that resolves anger and substance abuse issues, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. My cousin, _________ has agreed to act as an intermediary on my behalf. If you want to communicate about any pertinent matters regarding finances or legal matters, it will have to be through her. Otherwise, I won't get the message because I have set up my email to delete your emails after I send this message.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship, and I simply cannot be in direct contact with you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to get help for your anger & substance abuse problems; permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be wiling to discuss our future together with you.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

With all my love,
(signed)


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:40 PM
After you send this, you must block his email so he can't get through. Do the same thing on your cell phone, block his #.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:40 PM
I sent that exact letter a few weeks ago minus IM stuff.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:40 PM
His cell is blocked...dunno if msn blocks email but I'll check
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I sent that exact letter a few weeks ago minus IM stuff.

I Just WROTE that letter so you couldn't have sent it! The whole point of the letter is to a) go into Plan B [which you have never done!!] and b) to give him the contact information about your intermediary. [which you have never done!]
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:44 PM
I had this sample letter from this site somewhere. I went dark on NC...except the truck. But a similar letter was sent a few weeks ago!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:45 PM
But now...it's NC period. I don't want more hurt...cuz you guys are right...it just sets me back.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:45 PM
I must have googled sample plan B letters...lol
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I had this sample letter from this site somewhere. I went dark on NC...except the truck. But a similar letter was sent a few weeks ago!

I just wrote that letter. crazy And no, you have not been in Plan B. You have been in Plan C. [plan "compromise"]

You need to send the letter because you have NEVER been in Plan B. He needs to know that you are REALLY cutting off contact.

He probbaly is not going to take you seriously at first, so you need to make sure he doesn't get any messages to you.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 08:09 PM
Ok....I just sent your letter Melody...and block his email!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Ok....I just sent your letter Melody...and block his email!

good girl!! Now call your cousin and tell her what you have done. If your H tries to reach you, it is very important that you do not let that happen or he will know he can get around this.

Waywards HATE Plan B because they hate losing control, so you have to be prepared to stand firm. Can you do this? Are you prepared?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 08:20 PM
Yup!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yup!

And be prepared for your H to send messages trying to encourage your cousin to manipulate and guilt you into direct contact. I hope your cousin does not show you those, but I assure you she will get them. He will call you "immature" and rant and rave. When that doesn't work, he might throw a crumb out there like "how are we supposed to know if we can work this out if she won't talk to me??" When that doesn't work, he might barge into your house.

Typically, the WS hates losing control and will do everything - OTHER THAN MEET YOUR CONDITIONS!! grin - to get access to you.

So, he will either meet your conditions 100% or he won't. If he does, then you will have a recovered marriage, if he doesn't, then you are better off without him!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 08:45 PM
Good advice...thanks!
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 09:22 PM
The thing I'm worried about is - are these really your conditions?

Are you determined that you will not accept him back when the affair ends, unless he is dealing vigorously with his anger and substance abuse? If he can't prove that he is in effective programmes for both those things, will you turn him away, as you should?

Your posts have been so desperate to get back with him. All you have wanted is for the affair to end. You've been shopping around on forums, looking for the magic bullet that will make the affair end so that he will come home. You have not seen that his conduct during the past year is a complete backsliding into his out-of-control, addicted life. You have never insisted that he deals with the other, very serious issues that make marriage to him impossible.

Have you really resolved that you will only consider reconciliation if he becomes a different man?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 09:46 PM
Oh heck no...he's not welcome back until all those issues are resolved...the affair ending is just the start. So in that regard I'm desperate for the affair to end...but I have ZERO interest in him until other issues are worked on with significant proof of improvement.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Oh heck no...he's not welcome back until all those issues are resolved...the affair ending is just the start. So in that regard I'm desperate for the affair to end...but I have ZERO interest in him until other issues are worked on with significant proof of improvement.

That is great! And I want to explain why your previous "Plan C" was not effective. First off, it comes across to him as plan "cold shoulder" while keeping you distraught from the continued drip, drip, drip of contact. It actually makes you look MUCH LESS attractive by hanging around making yourself available as his option. it also keeps you in a persistent state of distress, which is not good for your mental health. By going into Plan B, you raise your value by raising the price of admission. That is the only thing likely to motivate him to change.

Dr. Harley calls the plan you were in "Plan C," and says it is the most likely to lead to divorce. And your marriage may very well end in divorce, but you want to exhaust your options. He addresses it here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2798
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/21/16 10:16 PM
Great explanation...great radio broadcast...thanks!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here you go and the IM training link is in this thread, it's the second post.

How to Plan B Correctly
The IM training link is in here for you to send your cousin.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:01 AM
Well there is no contact. He blocked her cell phone and her email. He sent me an email before I figured out how to block his emails from reaching me. So unless he unblocks her there will be NO communication at all...which is kinda scary since I will not know if he pays his obligation
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:02 AM
Not sure why he takes such great offense to this action. He says he's never coming back and divorce is pending. I would think he would be relieved to NOT have to deal with me over this one issue (truck pymt)....grrrrrr
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Well there is no contact. He blocked her cell phone and her email. He sent me an email before I figured out how to block his emails from teaching me. So unless he unblocks her there will be NO communication at all...which is kinda scary since I will not know if he pays his obligation

That doesn't make any sense. If you are in Plan B you would not have communication anyway. You do understand you are not to contact him in Plan B, right? You just sent him a letter telling him you would not be in contact.

Nor do you need to stay in touch with him anyway to find out if he made a payment. All you have to do is call the debtor and ask. And I sure would not count on him to pay anything unless it is court mandated. Waywards are NOT reliable bill payers. You need to make other plans.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:16 AM
No I have not been in contact with WH since I sent your plan B letter this afternoon. WH was sending me emails in rapid succession before I found the block his email function about how he will not use IM for anything...that we can have no communication vs using IM...that we can just email business only. I did not respond. I had to google how yo block his emails. Took me 10min to find it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:17 AM
You'd think he would be THRILLED to have no contact.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:21 AM
And yes you're right I can call bank. One of last emails to get thru before being blocked said he would try to pay tmrw or Monday at the latest. Right after telling me I can't block email...that all I can do is choose not read his emails...that he tried long ago to block me. Yet i found how to block. He must not have tried that hard.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No I have not been in contact with WH since I sent your plan B letter this afternoon. WH was sending me emails in rapid succession before I found the block his email function about how he will not use IM for anything...that we can have no communication vs using IM...that we can just email business only. I did not respond. I had to google how yo block his emails. Took me 10min to find it.

Good girl!! Just stick with it. He will either communicate with your IM or you won't get his messages! laugh
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
You'd think he would be THRILLED to have no contact.

Isn't that the most curious thing?? skeptical
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:33 AM
More like confusing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:48 AM
I can imagine it is confusing. It was confusing to me too years ago. Now I just expect it and tell disbelieving betrayed spouses to expect. They never believe me at first!
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
More like confusing

It's all about control.

WS's LIKE "having their cake and eating it, too!" They don't want to totally lose that contact with H or W, even though they SAY they do!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:50 AM
I understand the fog...but if the WH wants out...says he's done...never coming back...it was wrong to marry to begin with...it's all my fault...and...already filed for divorce in addition to the A....why on earth would the WH balk at using an IM?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:51 AM
Yeah...it sure seems like control...sheesh
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:55 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I understand the fog...but if the WH wants out...says he's done...never coming back...it was wrong to marry to begin with...it's all my fault...and...already filed for divorce in addition to the A....why on earth would the WH balk at using an IM?

rotflmao
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:55 AM
Wait until he walks in on you!!!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:56 AM
LOL...right...it's a crazy train...
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:57 AM
He better not. He no longer has a key...and the RO is still in effect until Feb 10th...he wouldn't dare.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:58 AM
Wait...do you think he would actually come to my house just because I won't have contact with him?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Wait...do you think he would actually come to my house just because I won't have contact with him?

They often do! When they can't get through any other way, they just come in the house!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 04:03 AM
OMG. Uninvited..yuck...that would take some true Gaul.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 04:05 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
OMG. Uninvited..yuck...that would take some true Gaul.

you are doing better than me Always - I would do anything for my wife to show up at my house ugh
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 04:13 AM
Well I would love my WH to come to my house...but for the RIGHT reasons...pissed because I won't have contact with him...is not a good reason.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 06:35 AM
Gallows humor here: I'm trying to keep my WW from LEAVING the house
:-(
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 03:08 PM
I feel so good not having to worry about IF I get an email from WH...no more anxiety over my phone dinging and wondering what crappy email I'm going to get today. I hoped for some sign of change and never got it...now I don't need to worry and it feels like a weight lifted from me.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I feel so good not having to worry about IF I get an email from WH...no more anxiety over my phone dinging and wondering what crappy email I'm going to get today. I hoped for some sign of change and never got it...now I don't need to worry and it feels like a weight lifted from me.

Great job! You're finally on the right path!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I feel so good not having to worry about IF I get an email from WH...no more anxiety over my phone dinging and wondering what crappy email I'm going to get today. I hoped for some sign of change and never got it...now I don't need to worry and it feels like a weight lifted from me.
Exactly and this is why I was pushing so hard to get you in to a dark Plan B. I'm so glad you're starting to feel better.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 06:48 PM
Thanks!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/22/16 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Thanks!
You're welcome. How are you doing with your self-care?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/23/16 12:12 AM
Good so far!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/23/16 08:24 PM
Wishing things were different. I'm out doing things and I hate it.

Still confused as to why my WH refuses to use an IM. Thankfully my email blocking seems to be working.
Posted By: living_well Re: Devastated - 01/23/16 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Still confused as to why my WH refuses to use an IM. Thankfully my email blocking seems to be working.


They all refuse. They know that they can no longer torture us and it drives them crazy.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/23/16 11:26 PM
As if an affair and divorce is not torture. How utterly selfish.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 02:00 AM
So yeah! My WH sent my IM a message saying he was fine with her as IM that he doesn't care...that it's easier. But he still says I can't block his email. But if he's tried sending me stuff I have not received anything and if he really blocked me...he didn't try too hard. It all just seems so juvenile.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 02:17 AM
Quote
But he still says I can't block his email.
Who gives a flying flip? Is he your boss??

BTW, inform your IM not to pass on such nonsense to you anymore. You don't need to hear his drama.
Posted By: markos Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
But he still says I can't block his email.

Just giggle extra hard when you block his email, then.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 02:48 AM
I know! He is just babbling.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 03:25 AM
Did you tell your IM not to pass on that stuff anymore like Prisca said?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 03:57 AM
Yes. She didn't realize that was not appropriate. She was sending me his short...responses...which is a change from the long yucky foggy babble. But she knows now.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 04:36 PM
If I were you, I'd make the truck payment myself for as long as it takes just to keep my personal credit record clear, and let the lawyer resolve it all in the end. If it costs more money, then chalk it up to the expense of extracting yourself from the situation and just forget it. Further contact is not worth it. Even checking with the bank each month is more contact than you really need right now. Have you ever moved and had to pay the lease or mortgage on a place you weren't even living in? Sometimes, it costs us to fulfill the financial commitments we made in good faith with no hint of what life was going to throw at us. Accept it as a loss and forget about it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 04:45 PM
MrE I cannot afford both car and truck pymts
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
MrE I cannot afford both car and truck pymts

So what is your plan when he stops paying?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 05:17 PM
I will need to go to court and ask the judge to force pymt since he's asked for the truck as part of the divorce...or an injunction to sell it immediately. Since the divorce has started I cannot go repo the truck without a judge ordering it.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/24/16 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I will need to go to court and ask the judge to force pymt since he's asked for the truck as part of the divorce...or an injunction to sell it immediately. Since the divorce has started I cannot go repo the truck without a judge ordering it.
So has your lawyer started this yet?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 01:53 AM
No because he told my IM he is going tmrw to do it. Court is scheduled for 3-3-16 so if I don't have to pay extra to go early I'm not going to push it. If he goes tmrw I won't need to worry til Feb
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No because he told my IM he is going tmrw to do it.

Are you sending him messages??
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 02:29 PM
No. She just replied to that with ok. Why? Should I be?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No. She just replied to that with ok. Why? Should I be?

Ok, so he just volunteered that he had made the payment? I want to make sure you are not sending him messages about it through her.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 02:54 PM
Yes he said he was going today sometime. When I don't know.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 02:57 PM
He said he is gonna have the bank call me to give permission for him to verify the pymts are up to date. Stuuuuupid. But I don't plan on answering that call. Today is my birthday and I don't plan on letting him ruin it. Besides he doesn't need to see the pymts are on time....I've already told him they have been.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
He said he is gonna have the bank call me to give permission for him to verify the pymts are up to date. Stuuuuupid. But I don't plan on answering that call. Today is my birthday and I don't plan on letting him ruin it. Besides he doesn't need to see the pymts are on time....I've already told him they have been.

Don't get hung up on this.

He's trying to "suck you back in" to a dialog with him.

IGNORE THIS!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 09:36 PM
And the games begin. Ugh. WH emailed my IM saying he was at the bank but since he didn't have the acct number...nor a a way to call me...or email me...he couldn't pay truck today. So I called bank...they said its true he needs acct number to access MY acct...so I had to send acct number to IM to send to him and an hour later it's still not paid. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Makes me so mad.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 10:13 PM
Now my IM is telling me that he wants me to meet him at the bank and to bring my divorce response he never got when he failed to do mail forwarding. Uhmmmm no. WH has the acct number. OMG....seriously you guys what in the world is this all about? Meet him to make a car pymt? Bring him a copy of my divorce response? No. Period.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Now my IM is telling me that he wants me to meet him at the bank and to bring my divorce response he never got when he failed to do mail forwarding. Uhmmmm no. WH has the acct number. OMG....seriously you guys what in the world is this all about? Meet him to make a car pymt? Bring him a copy of my divorce response? No. Period.

Have her offer to send him the divorce response in the mail.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 10:58 PM
I offered to send it. He won't give me his addy. Besides he can trot his happy butt down to the court house and pay for a copy. He's the idiot that didn't do mail forwarding and thats how my response got returned.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/25/16 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I offered to send it. He won't give me his addy. Besides he can trot his happy butt down to the court house and pay for a copy. He's the idiot that didn't do mail forwarding and thats how my response got returned.
So let him pay for his own copy.
Posted By: Woundednotbroken Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 01:50 AM
Not your problem, hun! He can pay for his own crap.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 02:35 AM
Yup!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 03:10 AM
Well...success...I did good holding out and WH sent my IM a pic of the receipt showing he paid the truck....5 days late but paid. Now he just needs to send me a check for his half of the car insurance....sigh...I hope to get that in next few days...but I'm not gonna sweat it. But for someone who wants NOTHING to do with me he sure does seem to draw out the contact drama.

I'm thinking he's not happy having no direct access to me anymore!
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 03:37 AM
Good job! Your Plan B is working!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 03:19 PM
Today my WH is bugging my IM about MY house electric bill that WH is NOT on...seriously...what gives. This is totally pissing off my IM who already loathes him. Ugh.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Today my WH is bugging my IM about MY house electric bill that WH is NOT on...seriously...what gives. This is totally pissing off my IM who already loathes him. Ugh.

As mentioned before - I would think this kind of information needs not make it to your ears. Your IM should have been well aware of what it entails to be the IM.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 03:40 PM
Yes she is...but she lives on east coast and has no clue who's on what bill and if they are paid. So she had to ask me.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/26/16 10:21 PM
Well my IM backed out. It was too stressful with all WH emails...her job and her other life stressors right now.

Good news my Aunt stepped in and has already taken over.

WH now wants proof of my pymt of car/truck ins. WTH? Well he's gonna call the ins agent....like WH needed me for that.

New IM...prior to knowing this info was off limits said WH was asking her why I'm so hateful and bitter and angry...why I couldn't just give him the ins stuff. Which was never hidden or secret but I guess WH thought so...it's not like he couldn't reach into the glove box at any time and call the ins agent. Anyway...he went on to say he knows people with worse childhoods than me who are less hateful and what happened to ME?

First...relax...IM now knows to keep that part to herself. Second...why is WH even asking? Third...I was lucky to not have a bad childhood...unlike him I was not abused (sexually/emotionally/physically)....so what is that whole line of questioning all about?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/27/16 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Second...why is WH even asking? Third...I was lucky to not have a bad childhood...unlike him I was not abused (sexually/emotionally/physically)....so what is that whole line of questioning all about?
None of this matters and you really need to start training yourself not to ask these kinds of questions. Now once your IM stops sending all this drivel you can stop this stress.

You will really start to heal once you get into and stay in a truly dark Plan B. No you have yet to start it, but hopefully your new IM will help you get and stay dark.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/27/16 11:35 AM
Ok
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/27/16 06:08 PM
WH is now refusing to pay his half of the car insurance for the truck. Say whaaaaat? Says he shouldn't have too. On what planet?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/27/16 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
WH is now refusing to pay his half of the car insurance for the truck. Say whaaaaat? Says he shouldn't have too. On what planet?
Can you remove him from your insurance? Then he can get his own.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/27/16 07:38 PM
No. Truck is in my name only. Ins agent said I have to be insured on it too as the owner.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/27/16 09:14 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No. Truck is in my name only. Ins agent said I have to be insured on it too as the owner.

I think you'll have to pay the ins on it - at least until 3/3.

Only another (little over a month away) few weeks.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/27/16 09:33 PM
Called the ins agent and WH did NOT call as he said he would AND turns out I've been under charging him. Ha. He won't be happy about that. He should've just been honorable and paid the amount I had been charging and I'd been none the wiser.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 01/28/16 06:02 PM
Here's the deal as I see it:

It really comes down to - Do you want to do Plan B or not?

I do not buy that this truck situation necessitates continuing contact. People who are serious about Plan B typically overcome issues far greater that this. Most have child custody problems to deal with. But if you don't really want to break contact off and are looking for an excuse, then you can magnify anything into a necessity for continuing contact. So be honest with yourself. Stop wasting time with this truck nonsense and let's get serious.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/28/16 08:14 PM
I have zero contact.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/28/16 11:17 PM
Ok my IM says WH is asking her questions about me...example...Am I chemically imbalanced...why am I being so mean...what happened to me...marriage script rewriting stuff like I'm sure I've heard before...question...she wants to know if she can engage his personal questions...without my knowledge. I don't know the answer. My thought is no...only business which I told her originally...but since he's asking her stuff she is not sure what to do. Advice?

I guess the upside if yes...is he has someone that can help call him on his crap...she is 70yrs old and more motherly than hateful. She loves us both...and wants to see us reconciled...but what to do if he asks her questions?
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 01/28/16 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I have zero contact.
This is good, but you have to get him out of your head if you are to find peace. Just like contact between former affair partners will rekindle the affair, so does contact with your WH refresh the pain of betrayal. Thinking about him is a form of contact. You need to avoid engaging issues that remind you of your WH. Your IM should be helping you with that.

The point of Plan B is for you to find peace. That won't happen if your attention is wrapped up in whatever he is up to. The truck and the insurance are simply not worth the cost to your peace of mind. Can you not see this?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/28/16 11:28 PM
I understand...yes.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/28/16 11:35 PM
But what about my IMs question from earlier post of mine about WH asking her questions?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:30 AM
Neither of your IMs has ever seemed to understand that you should not be hearing about the emails he sends. You two have no kids, and nothing that needs to be discussed at the moment. He can send the IM all the emails he likes, but you should not be hearing a word about them.

With the amount of contact you are STILL having with him, it's as if you have never had an IM.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:33 AM
I know. It's a struggle. They know the rules but when they have questions I need to answer them. So I come here to ask.

So is she supposed engage in personal questions with my WH?
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:44 AM
Your IM is not doing her job. She needs to filter all of that blabber out and not tell them to you. It is not important.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I know. It's a struggle. They know the rules but when they have questions I need to answer them. So I come here to ask.

So is she supposed engage in personal questions with my WH?

Absolutely not. All she is supposed to do is pass on absolutely pertinent information about finances, legal issues, etc.

If your WS sends personal "questions" she just has to say: "thanks for your email. My only role is to pass on critical information to Always about finances, legal matters. Nothing more."
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:47 AM
The role consists of one thing and one thing only:

passing along pertinent information about finances, legal matters in her own words. Nothing more. She should present a completely neutral face to him.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I know. It's a struggle. They know the rules but when they have questions I need to answer them. So I come here to ask.

So is she supposed engage in personal questions with my WH?
But if you've read all the guidance we've given on the role of an IM, you should know the answer yourself.

I get the feeling that you just want to talk about him, and think about him. Coming here and asking those questions, to which the answer should be obvious, is a way of hoping for permission to engage with him.

What part of "pertinent legal and financial matters" did those questions cover?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:48 AM
Ok. That is what I told her initially. She was NOT expecting personal questions and she wasn't sure what she was allowed/supposed to do. Thanks...ill let her know!

Btw...what is the reason she shouldn't have personal convos with him...it's not like they're strangers. I'm sure she'll ask and I'm curious too.

Thanks!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Btw...what is the reason she shouldn't have personal convos with him...it's not like they're strangers. I'm sure she'll ask and I'm curious too.

What would be the purpose of that? And I don't see that he is asking "personal questions;" he is insulting you in the form of a question. Surely she can see that?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Btw...what is the reason she shouldn't have personal convos with him...it's not like they're strangers. I'm sure she'll ask and I'm curious too.

Thanks!

She can have personal conversations about HERSELF, but as far as you are concerned, the IM needs to remain neutral and not inject herself into the situation. If she interjects her personal opinion, she won't be neutral.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Ok my IM says WH is asking her questions about me...example...Am I chemically imbalanced...why am I being so mean...what happened to me...marriage script rewriting stuff like I'm sure I've heard before...question...she wants to know if she can engage his personal questions...without my knowledge. I don't know the answer. My thought is no...only business which I told her originally...but since he's asking her stuff she is not sure what to do. Advice?

I guess the upside if yes...is he has someone that can help call him on his crap...she is 70yrs old and more motherly than hateful. She loves us both...and wants to see us reconciled...but what to do if he asks her questions?
Seriously - she wants your permission to answer his questions about whether you are chemically imbalanced and why you are being so mean? She wants to discuss these ridiculous assertions with him, with your blessing, but "without your knowledge"?

And she wants to see you reconciled, despite his drug and alcohol addiction, and his history of adultery and violence in his other marriages, and now with you? Despite the fact that he has abandoned you for another woman?

Are you sure she's up to this job?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 12:54 AM
Yes she can...I think she looks at it as a window into more open conversation with WH to help him see his part...but not sure...she just wanted know if she could engage him. She's less threatening being 70yrs old and all.

I agree to just biz
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes she can...I think she looks at it as a window into more open conversation with WH to help him see his part...but not sure...she just wanted know if she could engage him. She's less threatening being 70yrs old and all.

I agree to just biz

It is always dangerous when an IM tries to straighten out the WS and give her opinion. It can become a disaster, because such a person believes their role is more of a counselor or coach and they very often try to persuade the BS to break Plan B based on their unprofessional opinion. We have had some horrible situations over the years due to an IM that overstepped her role.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 01:06 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Ok. That is what I told her initially. She was NOT expecting personal questions and she wasn't sure what she was allowed/supposed to do. Thanks...ill let her know!

Btw...what is the reason she shouldn't have personal convos with him...it's not like they're strangers. I'm sure she'll ask and I'm curious too.

Thanks!
I think you're enjoying all the frequent indirect contact. I think you're hoping that she'll have these conversations with him and talk him into getting back with you. If he ends the affair you will take him back, and you're hoping that this "motherly rather than hateful" woman will help him to end it. (Why the comment about "not hateful"? Did anyone suggest that she should be hateful?)

You'll take him back despite his rotten record as a husband in his previous marriages, including violence and substance abuse, issues that have now surfaced in your own short marriage. You think the fact that he frequently engages with the IM means that he wants to be close to you. You want hm back, and you'll take the crumbs of indirect contact because that brings you closer to him.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 01:13 AM
You're all spot on.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:01 AM
I read my IM all your responses and you're all right. I'm struggling. Despite what you think of my WH I still married for love and the person he is today is not who I married. I still hope for restoration but WH has zero interest and I'm having a tough time coming to a place of acceptance.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I read my IM all your responses and you're all right. I'm struggling. Despite what you think of my WH I still married for love and the person he is today is not who I married. I still hope for restoration but WH has zero interest and I'm having a tough time coming to a place of acceptance.

WE understand completely, Always!! And you did a great job getting into Plan B. You just need to tighten it up. If you can do that, you will feel so much better much sooner! I promise.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:31 AM
Excellent radio clip where Dr. H talks about what a WH should do for his wife to give him another try after his affairs. He explains it like an addict.

Radio Clip on a WH on what to do to get back with his wife 3:50 mark

Maybe this will help you see what your WH needs to do to earn you even thinking about giving him another shot.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:33 AM
I feel like my plan B is too late. You guys all have stories where your WS tried at some point but that's just not the case with me. My WH has no further interest and now LIKES having the IM. Admittedly I feel desperate. So yeah...even tho I have no contact with him...hearing he engages the IM gives me an odd shred of hope...pathetic I knoe. It only makes me feel worse hearing the same crap going to them as what I heard ad nauseum.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:36 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I feel like my plan B is too late. You guys all have stories where your WS tried at some point but that's just not the case with me. My WH has no further interest and now LIKES having the IM. Admittedly I feel desperate. So yeah...even tho I have no contact with him...hearing he engages the IM gives me an odd shred of hope...pathetic I knoe. It only makes me feel worse hearing the same crap going to them as what I heard ad nauseum.

Hun, you need to let GO. You need to stay totally in Plan B. Don't over-analyze this.

YOUR handle is "Alwayslookingup" - but now you're not looking UP at all! You must give it ALL to God. Just let WH go, let the AP crap go, just let go.

God cannot work while you're holding onto the past.

God loves you and NOTHING He has planned for your future is to harm you. Believe it!

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:37 AM
It's like he's trying to sell it to everyone. I think you guys know that we are christians...so when WH says to people that he just can't be the man God called him to be married to me. Rich considering he's the one who is cheating and seeking divorce. Just hurts my heart. It's the most helpless feeling.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
It's like he's trying to sell it to everyone. I think you guys know that we are christians...so when WH says to people that he just can't be the man God called him to be married to me. Rich considering he's the one who is cheating and seeking divorce. Just hurts my heart. It's the most helpless feeling.

It's still fog talk.

Just let God work. Listen, sweetie, my IM was a wonderful Christian friend. Loves us both. But she stood in the gap with me and for us. She knew, too, that WH wasn't acting very "christian." It was OK. He was just -confused. He had to come to that realization on his own. In the meantime, I NEEDED MY ALONE TIME WITH GOD to strengthen me.

And it did.

Use your "alone" time wisely.

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:51 AM
Court is 3/3...I don't have time for the fog to lift yet I have no control. My WH doesn't believe I've changed. Or that I can change. And quite frankly I feel that WH knows how much work it would be for him to chg and just isn't interested in putting in the work.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
[quote=Alwayslookingup]I feel like my plan B is too late. You guys all have stories where your WS tried at some point but that's just not the case with me. My WH has no further interest and now LIKES having the IM. Admittedly I feel desperate. So yeah...even tho I have no contact with him...hearing he engages the IM gives me an odd shred of hope...pathetic I knoe. It only makes me feel worse hearing the same crap going to them as what I heard ad nauseum.

The purpose of Plan B is to protect your mental health. Believe me it is not too late!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
It's like he's trying to sell it to everyone. I think you guys know that we are christians...so when WH says to people that he just can't be the man God called him to be married to me. Rich considering he's the one who is cheating and seeking divorce. Just hurts my heart. It's the most helpless feeling.

Plan B is designed to protect you from this fogbabble. If you will shut him out entirely and get your IM to stop telling you stuff, you will be amazed at how good you feel in a few weeks.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:08 AM
Oh she and I are in agreement on that now Melody. But it doesn't prevent my curiosity and thoughts. I just don't understand what happened to him and some of the stuff he says and does just makes no sense. For example he sent the first IM alllll my nice emails since Dday. If WH is so done...why not delete...it's what I'd do if I was done.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:11 AM
Or why keep needless contact over the truck/ins when it's the simplest issue to NOT have contact over. Why say you're done but then ask others what's wrong with ME? I know it's this fog talk and babble but it's still confusing.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:46 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Or why keep needless contact over the truck/ins when it's the simplest issue to NOT have contact over. Why say you're done but then ask others what's wrong with ME? I know it's this fog talk and babble but it's still confusing.

It's also alien talk! THAT's why you don't need to listen to it. It just twists you around into little knots, and makes it hard for you to get straightened out. You've suffered a huge shock to your system....your whole world tumbled upside down.

You need TIME to settle down, adjust to the "new normal" that is now your life, and You.Cannot.Do.That.If.You.Continue.To.Dwell.On.What.WH.Is.Doing.And.Why.

So just STOP IT!

The Lord stopped me. He stopped me from "stalking" or trying to trail WH around, or find out anything about OW (I never even knew what she looked like!). You don't know me, but - believe me - that is SOOO not my personality to just let it go.

He just flat told me - "NO! Either you trust me to work this out, or do not ask Me to help at all." I got the distinct feeling that *if I did not obey God in this matter* the proof of how little I trusted Him would hold back my healing.

Once I got over the initial shock of betrayal, anger, etc. I WAS better off not knowing *anything* It made life more peaceful. You need that now. Please get to that place. And then just draw close to Jesus. Nothing else. Just do that. He'll handle all those details you *think* you have to keep bringing up....they're just not important now.

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:57 AM
You're absolutely right older wiser. I'm going to try and start doing that. It is a total shock to my system. I'm a total analyzer by nature and by job...so it's in me to wonder..seek out info...wonder what this n that means. It's very hard to not do that. It's against everything I know how to do. Which frustrates me MORE! I wish I could just push the I don't give a crap button and voila...no more thoughts of WH.

I unfortunately know what the beast of OW looks like. Including her mug shot...such a lovely gal...NOT! Ugh....yuck.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 05:15 AM
This is why you need to find something that will help you to stop thinking of your WH. Some BSs use a rubber band around their wrist and every time they think of their WS they pull on the rubber band.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 07:47 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Oh she and I are in agreement on that now Melody. But it doesn't prevent my curiosity and thoughts. I just don't understand what happened to him and some of the stuff he says and does just makes no sense. For example he sent the first IM alllll my nice emails since Dday. If WH is so done...why not delete...it's what I'd do if I was done.
It is like you have been hit by a truck while crossing the road. Your need to know is like you are standing in the middle of the road again, waiting for the next car to hit you. Do you need to be run over again to understand this will hurt?

Get off that road!! Plan B. Dark.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
You're absolutely right older wiser. I'm going to try and start doing that. It is a total shock to my system. I'm a total analyzer by nature and by job...so it's in me to wonder..seek out info...wonder what this n that means. It's very hard to not do that. It's against everything I know how to do. Which frustrates me MORE! I wish I could just push the I don't give a crap button and voila...no more thoughts of WH.

Always, the tighter your plan b, the less you wonder and the better you will feel. There is no meaning to what he is doing. Just equate him to a falling down drunk. Remember what I told you early on? That when a BS goes into Plan B, the WS suddenly comes up with endless reasons to contact the BS. It is because they don't like losing control. It is very predictable. All of that means nothing.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:08 PM
Ok Melody
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
You're absolutely right older wiser. I'm going to try and start doing that. It is a total shock to my system. I'm a total analyzer by nature and by job...so it's in me to wonder..seek out info...wonder what this n that means. It's very hard to not do that. It's against everything I know how to do. Which frustrates me MORE! I wish I could just push the I don't give a crap button and voila...no more thoughts of WH.

I unfortunately know what the beast of OW looks like. Including her mug shot...such a lovely gal...NOT! Ugh....yuck.

I get that, Always! I'm the same way. Always seeking out, NEEDING TO KNOW all the details. I always say I should have been a detective! I don't like mysteries, I don't like *not knowing* something I feel I should know, and I'm always looking to seek out the unknown and solve things.

But in this case, the Lord *did not want me looking into the beyond* and wondering or fixating over what was going on. It was also a test of my obedience.

When I found MB, I realized that what "Plan B" was all about was exactly what God had told me! DO NOT WORRY ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON "on the other side of the mountain" - as my BFF/IM called it! It just wasn't important enough anymore. The most important thing for me was to find sanity. And you won't find it fixating or analyzing the slightest things your WH is doing. Just spend that extra time reading all the books you've been wanting to read, or do an in-depth study of some books of the Bible you want to know more about. I learned A LOT about myself, WH, God's faithfulness, and infidelity from the book of Hosea. Find something positive for YOU and let the details sort themselves out.

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 03:51 PM
Thanks older wiser!
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 07:20 PM
It might be helpful if you took a successive approximation approach toward tightening of your Plan B. Accept that a totally dark Plan B is a worthy goal, but not one that in your heart you really want right now. So, it will be necessary to train yourself toward accepting and establishing a tight Plan B. Set yourself a reasonable goal - like four hours - where you will not allow yourself to even think about your WH. Build upon that goal, and in time, you will find that the peace of mind you gain will reward you into fully accepting the goal.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 07:56 PM
Mr E I do that pretty good when at work. But after work and on weekends I feel lonely ....then angry...then hopeful again...it's a roller coaster of emotions. But slowly after all his ugliness and words saying he's never coming back I'm starting to believe that and lose hope and accept my fate.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 08:40 PM
It's not about losing hope and accepting fate - as Christians, we always have hope and we don't even believe in such a thing as fate.

Plan B insulates you from him, so you won't even know much less be hurt by whatever he says and does. The Lord controls your future, not fate and not your WH. Once you separate yourself from all the drama and allow yourself to heal, you will be prepared for what is to come.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 08:45 PM
I don't believe in fate either...just a phrase...but yeah. I'm dark. And I hate it because it feels terrible yet sooooo good not getting hurt email after nasty email!!!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
This is why you need to find something that will help you to stop thinking of your WH. Some BSs use a rubber band around their wrist and every time they think of their WS they pull on the rubber band.
Do you have a plan to help you to stop obsessing about him?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 09:25 PM
No!!!!

Going dark has been hard. But I'm pretty good during day while working...but friends call we talk and analyze...etc. But I don't call him or email him or stalk him or otherwise contact him.

Not thinking about him is proving harder than going dark!!!!
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No!!!!

Going dark has been hard. But I'm pretty good during day while working...but friends call we talk and analyze...etc. But I don't call him or email him or stalk him or otherwise contact him.

Not thinking about him is proving harder than going dark!!!!

I don't know who else will agree with me, but according to your timeline, this A only got discovered 2 months ago or so. If that's the case, I was still virtually a BASKET CASE two months in.

It was AT LEAST 3 or 4 months in before I could even remember to breathe. Or began to eat again. :-(

It takes awhile to adjust your mindset to a new normal....a normal which doesn't revolve around what to cook for H - oh, right.....or: gotta wash h's socks - oh, right....

See what I mean? It's an adjustment time. You'll get there, but you've got to begin to make a conscious effort every day to look in that direction - and not look back, or try to over-analyze something YOU could have done differently, etc. What's done is done, and this site is a veritable GOLD MINE of info to help you navigate through this. Until I discovered this site, I WAS a mess, and did not even leave my house! Literally. I'm a teacher, it was summer vaca, and I did not even leave my house. At the end of summer, one dear friend said, "You've got to move on with life now. Go to work. Get back to 'normal.'"

It wasn't the same, granted, but it did help to focus on other stuff. So I understand you're still fresh, and raw. But try to start focusing on other interests. And DO NOT LET YOUR FRIENDS turn every convo into - "so how's it going? Have you heard anything?" It's not productive.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 10:03 PM
Sadly...it's not always my friends who initiate the WH talk...it's me. I am raw...it is new and the clock is ticking such that I will be divorced before the "average" life span of an affair even lasts. I didn't find this site right away and even once I did my exposure wasn't nuclear and right away. So relative to the timeline...my plan B was late to the party.

I'm trying not think about him. I don't leave my house unless I absolutely have too and I've lost 37lbs since this Dday. On the upside I got a springboard into weight loss the hard way and i can't rmbr the last time I cried over this with the exception of last night...but prior to that I can't recall.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 10:21 PM
Have you spoken to your doctor about ADs? Dr. Harley recommends them during Plan A and Plan B.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 10:43 PM
I did. Was on them for less than 3weeks because I had a super awesome rash/scabs issue that still leaves me scarred from the itching. Super awesome physical reminder of all WH crapola.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I did. Was on them for less than 3weeks because I had a super awesome rash/scabs issue that still leaves me scarred from the itching. Super awesome physical reminder of all WH crapola.
Didn't your doctor try another brand/dose?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/29/16 11:46 PM
No...we decided to let my itching and scabs and nastiness leave my system before tryin a new one...if needed. It don't think I need it. I'm ok mentally...just still shocked and happy to sit home and do nothing.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Sadly...it's not always my friends who initiate the WH talk...it's me. I am raw...it is new and the clock is ticking such that I will be divorced before the "average" life span of an affair even lasts. I didn't find this site right away and even once I did my exposure wasn't nuclear and right away. So relative to the timeline...my plan B was late to the party.

I'm trying not think about him. I don't leave my house unless I absolutely have too and I've lost 37lbs since this Dday. On the upside I got a springboard into weight loss the hard way and i can't rmbr the last time I cried over this with the exception of last night...but prior to that I can't recall.
After reading on emotional memory management, I learned "not thinking" of something is impossible. What you can do is make yourself think of something else the moment you catch yourself thinking of him. Your brain is not capable of accessing two memories at the same time.

What is a pleasant memory? Make a list to recall those pleasant memories and think of those when you want to think if WH. It will prevent the emotions that accompany bad memories from flooding you.

Also, schedule activities. Sitting at home doing nothing is not good, it causes your mind to think of WH. Have coffee with friends, go to a market place, plan something to do. It will be easier to distract yourself and it will make you feel better.

Plan B saves your sanity and shields you from more heartache. Whether or not reconciliation is in your future, plan B will be beneficial, because it is about your best interest. It will allow you to be in the best shape (health wise and mentally) possible considering the circumstances. And you need to be.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 12:39 AM
I'm trying!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 02:44 AM
We've had other Plan B'ers use the rubber band method. Have you tried that?
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 05:00 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Sadly...it's not always my friends who initiate the WH talk...it's me. I am raw...it is new and the clock is ticking such that I will be divorced before the "average" life span of an affair even lasts.

None of this matters!

WHen I was going through this, the sage advice was to drag out the D for as long as possible, in order to allow the A time to "die out."

Well, that didn't happen....we ended up divorced anyway! Didn't matter. After the A was over, H wanted to come back and reconcile.....even though we had been D'd for 2 years, and he had been gone for 3. See, the TIMELINE is less important than being in the right place, and being ready to move into whatever the next stage is.

I think you are focusing on the timeline, and thinking that "step 2" didn't happen by such and such a time, and "step 3" didn't happen by such and such a time, then we're done. Forever.

NOT!

Give God a little more credit, will ya! ;-)

God Bless,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 01:58 PM
Brain...no I haven't done the rubber band thing yet. I'll give it a try!

Older wiser I know in my brain you're right...heart still playing catch up.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 02:00 PM
Older are you remarried to your same WH?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
Well, that didn't happen....we ended up divorced anyway! Didn't matter. After the A was over, H wanted to come back and reconcile.....even though we had been D'd for 2 years, and he had been gone for 3. See, the TIMELINE is less important than being in the right place, and being ready to move into whatever the next stage is.

I think you are focusing on the timeline, and thinking that "step 2" didn't happen by such and such a time, and "step 3" didn't happen by such and such a time, then we're done. Forever.

NOT!

Give God a little more credit, will ya! ;-)
I don't think you're doing her any favours, posting this message of hope, when her husband is still a violent, drug-abusing, adulterous (in BOTH previous marriages) alcoholic. He has been that his whole life, and only stopped for a few years during the time he met her. Now he has been violent towards her and has a restraining order, is again an adulterer and has stopped going to his substance abuse support group and so is probably abusing again.

We have told her over and over that it is not enough for the affair to end and him to want to go back. She needs to insist that he demonstrates a clean lifestyle for at least a year before she should ever consider reconciling.

Yet, here you are, telling her that God will give him back to her. She is being encouraged to believe that, as your husband went back to you, her husband will go back to her, once God decides it should be so.

I think that is dangerous advice, and gives her the motivation to keep being invested in this creep.

Your husband's adultery was the usual kind; an aberration enabled by opportunity and temptation. We could all do what he did, and regret it, as he did.

Her husband's adultery, drinking and drug taking are a lifestyle choice. Very few husbands on this forum have ever lived like him for as long as he has, and repaired their marriage. (I know of none.)
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
[WHen I was going through this, the sage advice was to drag out the D for as long as possible, in order to allow the A time to "die out."

The affair is the LEAST of the problems in this situation. The problems in this marriage have been violence and addiction in addition to serial cheating.

I agree with Sugarcane that it is dangerous to give her false hope. Are you really trying to tell her that a marriage with a dangerous man is something she should hope for?

We all know that God will not force anyone to do anything against his will. Perhaps you should give God credit for getting her safely out of this dangerous situation? The Bible tells us not to take part in works of darkness for a very good reason: it can take us down with him!! Sometimes divorce is the definition of success.

Always, for your own sake, please focus on creating a happy life for yourself without your husband. STOP talking about him. Ask your friends to stop bringing him up. That is the best thing for your mental health. And who knows, maybe some day he will make a radical, miraculous change at his own will. But if he doesnt', you will have created a happy life as a single woman.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Older are you remarried to your same WH?

Yes.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
[WHen I was going through this, the sage advice was to drag out the D for as long as possible, in order to allow the A time to "die out."

The affair is the LEAST of the problems in this situation. The problems in this marriage have been violence and addiction in addition to serial cheating.

I agree with Sugarcane that it is dangerous to give her false hope. Are you really trying to tell her that a marriage with a dangerous man is something she should hope for?

We all know that God will not force anyone to do anything against his will. Perhaps you should give God credit for getting her safely out of this dangerous situation? The Bible tells us not to take part in works of darkness for a very good reason: it can take us down with him!! Sometimes divorce is the definition of success.

Always, for your own sake, please focus on creating a happy life for yourself without your husband. STOP talking about him. Ask your friends to stop bringing him up. That is the best thing for your mental health. And who knows, maybe some day he will make a radical, miraculous change at his own will. But if he doesnt', you will have created a happy life as a single woman.

Sugar and Melody,

I know what you are saying. I agree with all of it.

I am simply trying to help get her into a peaceful Plan B. Only once she is there, will she be able to think clearly and project herself into a future....with OR without her WH.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that her WH has lots of issues that must be dealt with, and it's better to be apart from such a person. But if she still feels love for him, she will reject outright any suggestion that she simply let him go.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 07:23 PM
I'm not going to comment regarding sugars comment. I'm not delusional about the amount of work my WH needs and what would need to happen to potentially make him future marriage material for me or anyone else for that matter. Thanks.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 08:03 PM
Found out who OW daughter and family is. Do I FB expose to them or let it go? I never had family info before when I did it. Now I do.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
[I wholeheartedly agree with you that her WH has lots of issues that must be dealt with, and it's better to be apart from such a person. But if she still feels love for him, she will reject outright any suggestion that she simply let him go..

I don't see her rejecting it at all. I see a woman who is battling her - wrongheaded - emotions and needs support in that regard. Her situation is far more complex than just the death of an affair. I hope you will help and encourage her in staying dark and focusing on creating a life without her husband. She will achieve happiness, good judgement and sanity much faster than holding out false hope.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Found out who OW daughter and family is. Do I FB expose to them or let it go? I never had family info before when I did it. Now I do.

I would not. Because you are in Plan B and because I don't see how more exposures is going to do anything other than create blowback for you. Your H has left and filed for divorce so exposure is not going to gain you any support and won't hurt his affair. It will just cause you grief by keeping you embroiled in his drama and by inviting hatred from others.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 08:27 PM
Ok
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 09:49 PM
A recent Plan B-er, PigletWiglet, recommends removing oneself from social media so you are not exposed to the infidels.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 10:01 PM
Oh I am off FB.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Oh I am off FB.
How did you find out OW's family now when you couldn't before?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 11:10 PM
Friends said the OW mom died who are still on FB. If I were to have done a FB exposure again now...which I'm not...I could've reactivated my own FB acct and sent OW family the exposure letter. In the OW moms death all the family incl OW daughter were commenting...thus giving me a treasure trove of OW family to send too.

But I think Melody is right...it's kinda too late. My WH already cheated...already filed for divorce and has no need or want to come back.

The celebrate recovery pastor texted me today...said WH didn't go again last night...said WH said he was at a funeral. Means OW mom funeral...means they are still together and my previous FB exposure letter indeed had NO effect on stopping the affair.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 11:14 PM
I am off FB and have not been on since FB exposure. And here I was thinking my exposure worked since he's harassing my IM so bad over the truck/ins. He's now refusing to pay the ins. Sigh. I'm just disgusted but I'm not gonna wrangle over $55. Turns out he's just an [censored].
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The celebrate recovery pastor texted me today...said WH didn't go again last night...said WH said he was at a funeral. Means OW mom funeral...means they are still together and my previous FB exposure letter indeed had NO effect on stopping the affair.
This isn't Plan B.

If you were in Plan B, the pastor would know not to give you any news of your H. Instead, you are looking for any news you can get about your H, and the pastor is giving it to you. This is the opposite of Plan B, and it is hurting you.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
And here I was thinking my exposure worked since he's harassing my IM so bad over the truck/ins.
The goal of your exposure letter was to expose the affair, so of course it worked.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/30/16 11:22 PM
The exposure at the time was only to WH mom and WH and OW friends and coworkers.

The pastor texts me randomly to see how I'm doing. He knows I have blocked his email and have an IM. I don't tell the pastor what he can and cannot tell me...esp since it's so infrequent.

But you're right sugar it impacts me...because I feel bad for him that he is so far goooooone. Then I feel bad in what I know. None of it is good.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 01/31/16 07:24 PM
Do you still have the same phone number? It would be best to change it.

Dr Harleys plan is so good, it is the simpelest way to preserve your mental health and help you recover the quickest way possible. If you implement the plan right now, you will reduce the damage done to you and you will be over the heartache in relatively little time.

A minister I once heard had a very good comparison on time. He told the story of a man who was walking and carelessly throwing away little stones he had in his pockets. At the end of his walk, most of the stones were gone. He looked closely at the stones and discovered they were diamonds.
As we live, we are careless with time. Every day that is gone, you will never get back. Be aware of the real value of time and spend it wisely.

Do you want to spend your precious time being hurt over and over again? Each breach of plan B sets you back at zero. It will take you longer to recover, all of it time you will not get back.

I had to learn this the hard way and want others not to make the same mistake as I did (it cost me years). If you follow the plan to the letter, you will gain precious time that otherwise would be spend hurt and probably depressed.

Dr Harly's theories aren't just some thoughts written down, but research has been done and all of it is proven to be effective. Your mind will be all over the place, what your instinct tells you to do, is probably not best for you. This plan is.

Do you want to pant for this man and keep hurting or do you want to recover? A year from now, do you wish you implemented the plan today or will you wish you suffered longer? Start your watertight plan B today and you will gain precious time.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/31/16 07:33 PM
Agreed Goody. I'm doing that. It's hard yes...but it's clear that all his ugliness is still present and he's trying to find ways to make me suffer. Including not paying the ONE asset WH wants. So I'm trying to not let that get me all riled up and wait on court on 3/3. Patience is so NOT my virtue and I realize...slowly here...that the less info and contact the better.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 01/31/16 10:47 PM
I'm Just irritated that WH thinks he shouldn't have to pay car insurance. Children don't pay insurance. Fiscally responsible adults DO.

It's just manipulation.

He still hasn't tried to finance the truck in his name. I had thought I'd just wait til the first court date 3/3 and let the judge dictate that. But part of me thinks I should have my IM give him the hint so it's done before 3/3 and he can have his quickie divorce. The other part of me thinks wait and let him sink further into his own mess and let the judge decide.

I don't want to respond to his manipulation. But court is a month away and he's messing with assets that affect me and it's scary.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 12:02 AM
You need to stop thinking about the d**n truck or anything to do with it. It's just a thing. You are not giving Plan B a chance to work.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 12:07 AM
Plan B still means I have business to take care of...while my heart stopped beating...business as usual continues...that is all I'm referring too.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 12:13 AM
My job requires my credit to be spotless and my WH is using it against me it would appear. Truck is in my name only. WH has possession of it and wants it as part of the divorce. It's a "thing" I can not just overlook and let my credit get dinged. If my job wasn't so sensitive then I could just let it go past due and take the credit ding...but my job matters and if I lose it to this numb nuts it does me nor my son any good.

I'm not sure why people are so critical of me over this issue. I can't afford to pay if WH does not.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 12:15 AM
Plan B is in effect. Emails are blocked. His phone is blocked. I'm off social media. I have an IM on board who knows the drill. I have NC with WH.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'm Just irritated that WH thinks he shouldn't have to pay car insurance. Children don't pay insurance. Fiscally responsible adults DO.

It's just manipulation.

He still hasn't tried to finance the truck in his name. I had thought I'd just wait til the first court date 3/3 and let the judge dictate that. But part of me thinks I should have my IM give him the hint so it's done before 3/3 and he can have his quickie divorce. The other part of me thinks wait and let him sink further into his own mess and let the judge decide.

I don't want to respond to his manipulation. But court is a month away and he's messing with assets that affect me and it's scary.
Don't give in. Ignore him and his manipulation, pay the insurance for now and get it straightened out 3/3.

Plan activities that are about you. Keep yourself occupied, have coffee with old friends, paint your toenails, sing karaoke, take a long walk. Keep your mind occupied with more important things, like the choice between pink and red nailpolish.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 12:57 AM
And I still think you need to change your phone number.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 01:04 AM
His number is blocked.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 02:40 AM
I am ignoring his manipulation...I'm glad I finally recognize it for what it is. I tried not to think that for so long not wanting to believe the lies...deceit...manipulation but it can no longer be ignored and it needs to be called what it is. Addicts have a masters degree in manipulation and his are sharp.

I just wish my exposure had succeeded in busting up the affair. It must be one of those hard to combat "love affairs" because it ain't over.
Posted By: zibbles Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 03:20 AM
I don't think you're getting what people are trying to tell you. You have to STOP thinking about him. It's going to take major discipline. You are ruminating/obsessing/completely taken over with thoughts of this man. It has to stop.

You can cut off contact but if you can't get your own mind on other things, you're not going to experience the benefits of plan b. Start making social plans, work out, do anything but STOP THINKING ABOUT HIM and hoping he will do the right thing.

Tune him out. Completely.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 06:30 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
His number is blocked.
He can still call you from another number or a blocked number. Can you go to your boss and explain what is going on to get ahead of it if your credit gets a ding?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 01:04 PM
My boss already knows. But my boss has no influence over this situation...regarding my credit anyway.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/01/16 01:07 PM
You're right zibbles. I need to stop thinking about him. I do well while working. But weekends are tough. I did go out with two different friends this weekend. One I went walking with and the other a bite to eat. So that was nice! I hadn't gone out with friends in MONTHS. It was nice because it was ME who initiated.
Posted By: zibbles Re: Devastated - 02/02/16 12:18 AM
Keep doing that. Reach out to friends and make plans and DON'T spend that time talking about him. I notice that when I'm going through a hard time, I tend to feel much better if I ask my friends to tell me about their lives. This gets my mind off me and my problems. Plus, most people love to talk about themselves. This will keep you from being tempted to bring him up. You can do this!
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 02/02/16 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'm not sure why people are so critical of me over this issue. I can't afford to pay if WH does not.
Because you can not afford the contact more than you can not afford the money.

There are many ways to approach this problem where you can just forget about what your WH is up to. Instead, you are allowing this one issue to be the excuse for getting all worked up about him.

You need to face the fact that this situation is going to cost you more than you can afford, both financially and emotionally. You will survive. You are choosing a path the trades financial cost for emotional cost. While the financial cost is a struggle, the emotional cost is much greater.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/02/16 02:00 PM
Agreed. I've opted to let it go til court on 3/3
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/03/16 09:32 PM
I'm still in dark NC...but today I am struggling. I'm not sure why. Today I've bummed about NC...mainly because I'm curious to know if WH and OW are together...broken up...or somewhere in between.

Still no check for the ins pymt he owes...which I'm not sweating...ill deal with that in court...but disappointed nonetheless.

It still feels so surreal. And the NC feels final in a way...I think that's what's getting me down.

Trying to stay busy...trying not to think about WH so much...but today feels particularly difficult. Grrrrrr
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 02/04/16 03:53 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'm still in dark NC...but today I am struggling. I'm not sure why. Today I've bummed about NC...mainly because I'm curious to know if WH and OW are together...broken up...or somewhere in between.

Still no check for the ins pymt he owes...which I'm not sweating...ill deal with that in court...but disappointed nonetheless.

It still feels so surreal. And the NC feels final in a way...I think that's what's getting me down.

Trying to stay busy...trying not to think about WH so much...but today feels particularly difficult. Grrrrrr

I'm so sorry, always.

<<<<Sending you hugs>>>>>
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/04/16 06:39 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'm still in dark NC...but today I am struggling. I'm not sure why. Today I've bummed about NC...mainly because I'm curious to know if WH and OW are together...broken up...or somewhere in between.

Don't let yourself get into this rut. If you keep thinking about these things you are killing your Plan B yourself.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/08/16 05:37 PM
Weekends suck.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 02/08/16 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Weekends suck.
Yup. If you don't have a plan, next weekend will also suck.

Make plans with friends, or visit a local museum/park/rent rollerblades. Keep youself occupied. It will get easier in time.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/08/16 07:53 PM
I've had out of town company this weekend...but it still stinks.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Devastated - 02/09/16 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I've had out of town company this weekend...but it still stinks.....

......on ice.
Posted By: Aerith Re: Devastated - 02/09/16 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I've had out of town company this weekend...but it still stinks.

Always, you need a better weekend planning then.

How did you spent weekends before DD? From your previous posts, you lived separately for a year with RO in place.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/09/16 10:25 PM
All of us hung out together...movies...tv...out to dinner...my son's bball games...I do the same things now...only without WH.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/10/16 01:00 AM
So today sucked...again. My atty told me I needed to email my WH regarding the court stipulation that we technically meet in person regarding the upcoming 3/3 court date. Since my RO ends tmrw I needed to do it today to avoid the meet in person order and email him the thread for next weeks document prep meeting with said atty. sigh. Why are WH soooooo utterly EVIL. I did my part...but it was like trying to wrangle a 3yr old...no joke. Turns out WH thinks the judge is going to just order me to sign the truck over to him...that he will not be nice or negotiate and that the judge can just set me straight. With a nice parting jab...have a better life. WTH...ok so divorce is not pretty...but holy moly...divorce with a WH in an active A is just pure misery. Back to dark NC I go...thankfully...because that exchange was awful.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/10/16 01:05 AM
Note: Our 3/3 papers state we need to meet in person regarding division of assets so that we are prepared to move quickly during the upcoming mediation meeting on 3/3.

Since it is my atty and my personal belief that WH does NOT have these papers because he didn't forward his mail or update the court of his addy...I needed to comply with MY side of the fence and try to discuss/negotiate a settlement.

WHY do the WSs get a pass on responsibility while the BSs stand...in pain...ruin...heartbreak as the sane party while WH tries to make BW out to be the bad guy? Feeling sooooo disgusted.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/10/16 07:04 AM
Have you explained to your lawyer why you need NC? Your lawyer is going to say you have to communicate because it makes your lawyer's job easier. Your lawyer works for you. Why can't the lawyer communicate to your WH's lawyer?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/10/16 12:56 PM
Neither my WH nor I have attys on retainer. My atty just prepares my paperwork and answers questions but he is not in retainer.

So the early resolution management conference papers say we are to meet in person. Email was next best thing with active RO
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/11/16 11:24 PM
My WH is certifiable. I got WH tax form...minor form that proves ins...but I had my IM let him know with these 3 options:

1. I will bring it to court.
2. He can come pick it up at my house...outside the gate.
3. He can call the ins company for a copy and I will shred this one.

WH response....Hold onto it.

Why? WTH...is it just to oppose me? What good does it do him or me for me to keep it? Grrrrrrrrrrrr......
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 12:33 AM
I think that's the new Obamacare form that nobody really needs for their taxes...

Anyway he has until 4/15 to file right? I wouldn't worry about it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 12:41 AM
I know. But my point is there is no need for him to ask me to hold onto it. We will see each other in court. It's just stupid.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 03:48 AM
I'm sure you know he's just trying to get a rise out of you, and he is succeeding. So don't fall for it.
You only have a few weeks left anyway.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 04:04 AM
How did you get the form?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 01:06 PM
His health insurance company sent it to my house. I'm not sure why...maybe because it was the last known address.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
His health insurance company sent it to my house. I'm not sure why...maybe because it was the last known address.
And it was addressed to him? Next time anything addressed to him don't open it and return to sender or forward it to his address.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 05:08 PM
Yes I will be more cognizant. It's normally just credit card offers that I shred. But I just opened all the mail at once not paying attention...and then I was like...oh crap!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 07:51 PM
I'm just disgusted with the level of nasty my WH has embraced. It's sad. Thank goodness my IM is unfazed by him. I just don't see why there can't be a level of decorum in sorting out the one issue we have to resolve.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 08:39 PM
What is wrong with me that I am starting to hate my WH for his treatment of others but not me?

My IM sent WH a dental bill and he replied with Hi BS...and my IM just simply said uhmmm no it's IM and WH replied with whatev. To me this is disrespectful and it infuriates me. Is WH just pissed he gets no direct contact with me? Just being a jerk to all who know me? It sure does piss me off considering he was happy for the IM. Now it's like anger everywhere. The A must still be in full tilt or he just really hates my guts.

He's being uncooperative over the business end of things with IM and just a real jerk all the way around.

Nearly 3mo into all this and i feel really raw. I'm doing stuff...but not enjoying much. Big faker I am. But trying. I'm just frustrated that it looks like I'll be divorced before the average affair even ends...and that makes me sad.

I do find that I think about him all the time...but it's less intense and less troublesome if that even makes any sense. I've had out of town family here for a week and I go to counseling today.

I just wish this all was over...yet I still hold out hope and that puts my mind in a weird spot.
Posted By: FightTheFight Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My IM sent WH a dental bill and he replied with Hi BS...and my IM just simply said uhmmm no it's IM and WH replied with whatev.

Maybe I'm wrong but your IM isn't doing their job very well if you know this.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 08:58 PM
Your IM needs to filter out all that noise. Just let you know the facts. Or you need another IM.

You've only got a few weeks left, don't get pulled into his mind games.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/12/16 09:13 PM
She's actually much better at filtering than before. She was excited that he seemed to be acting nice. The whatev came later. But you're both right.

And I can't lie...I was encouraged. Sigh.....not!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/13/16 08:16 PM
You really need to fill this breaks in Plan B. You haven't been in a solid Plan B. You're addicted to him and his contact and don't see that your WH is an abusive wayward. You have two very strong reasons to see that your WH isn't good at all.

Why do you keep your standards so low? Do you not think you deserve better?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/13/16 08:32 PM
You're right. I do deserve better than what I'm settling for. I need to break from WH somehow.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Devastated - 02/13/16 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I need to break from WH somehow.

You need to replace this obsession with other healthy things in your life. Hobbies, exercise, etc. Anything related to self-care is great.

Instead of gravitating towards those who will talk to you about your WH and give you that "fix" of obsession about him, tell those people you don't want to talk about him and if they continue to do so, avoid them.

This is part of YOUR job in Plan B - this is what is best for you and your children....so I hope you take what we are saying seriously.

Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/13/16 11:41 PM
Yes...I agree...and I will. It's very unhealthy and I recognize this. I'm sucking at this part. But I'm better than the treatment I'm getting.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/15/16 10:17 PM
Why can a WH not take responsibility for a single thing?

This morning my IM texted me that my WH is upset that he thinks I changed his mailing address for one of his CC back to an old address we lived at 3yrs ago. Uhmmmmm...no. I'm not responsible for where his mail goes nor did I change anything.

On top of it all he accused my IM of being me. I guess WH paranoia is setting in. My IM had to call him and leave a message on his VM to show it was her. Stupid.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/15/16 10:18 PM
It just sickens me that WH is stooping to such lows. I've been nothing but above board including letting him know of what bills or mail do come to my home. It's just so absurd.

It's like he's just looking for ways to irritate. I'm getting better about not getting upset...now it's just par for the course...but it is ridiculous nonetheless. Nor do I fully understand the affair fog...is this part of it or just escalation into nasty due to the pending divorce?
Posted By: AnyWife Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
It's like he's just looking for ways to irritate. I'm getting better about not getting upset...now it's just par for the course...but it is ridiculous nonetheless. Nor do I fully understand the affair fog...is this part of it or just escalation into nasty due to the pending divorce?

My guess is that this is part of him waking up to the fact that he has no control over you anymore. He is used to being the center of your world, and you've gone dark, and he desperately wants to "get to you" some how in order to feel relevant in your life. With the IM, he's not getting direct feedback from you so he grasps about for issues (even if he's making them up) that he believes your IM will have to pass to you. Just to know he made you think about him that day.

He's like a 5 year old who left his toy truck out in the rain and mud, and kept ignoring Mommy when she said to put it away. Until one day he saw his neglected truck in the trash. Then suddenly he had a major crying, screaming, sobbing, begging melt down - wanting his truck back. Suddenly he was obsessed with the truck he didn't even remember he had the day before.

Not to compare you to a toy truck! But hopefully you get the idea. If he does feel nasty toward you it's probably just misplaced anger because you're not letting him use and abuse you anymore. He's losing/lost control over you.

His emotions are as rational as those of a drunk five year old. You can never really figure him out, and even if you did, what good would it do?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Why can a WH not take responsibility for a single thing?

This morning my IM texted me that my WH is upset that he thinks I changed his mailing address for one of his CC back to an old address we lived at 3yrs ago. Uhmmmmm...no. I'm not responsible for where his mail goes nor did I change anything.

On top of it all he accused my IM of being me. I guess WH paranoia is setting in. My IM had to call him and leave a message on his VM to show it was her. Stupid.
Your IM should not be informing you of such nonsense. But I'm sure you already know this. The Question is "are you ever going to start a true Plan B?"
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 02:07 PM
Well IM thought it relevant to tell me he didn't get his CC stmt and felt since it was bill related she should ask me. I've told her business only...which she's pretty good at....now... But she thought CC stuff was business.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 02:09 PM
But...I am NC...WH emails are blocked...his cell is blocked...I'm dark on social media with deactivated accts. He and I have no communication except thru my IM.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 03:22 PM
The point is that you are not in "no contact", because your IM tell you things that she should know not to, such as that he accused her of being you. That is not business, and it is not urgent.

The amount of contact flowing from him to you via the IM means that you are in just as much contact as if he were emailing you directly. The point of an IM is not just to make sure that messages go through another person - that would be stupid; it is to make sure that you hear nothing at all about him, and that has never happened.

Your frequent posts with questions about why he is so cruel to your are yet another form of indulgence; you are thinking about him, and writing about him ALL THE TIME - and I'm sorry to say that some posters here are indulging you in this by replying to your musings and giving you yet more thoughts to feed on.

Your husband is being cruel to you because he is a drug addict, an alcoholic, violent and an adulterer. He is not going to be kind to you in this divorce because drug addicts and alcoholics do not act from a basis of decency. He has gone back to being the man he was for most of his life, and even if OW dumps him tomorrow, he will still be that man, until he undertakes a long course of drug and alcohol rehabilitation.

You need to tell your IM not to pass ANYTHING on to you now, because there is nothing you need to deal with before your court date. And try to stop posting about him; you are making things worse for yourself because you won't physically try to stop yourself from focusing on him. This forum is in fact feeding your addiction.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 04:12 PM
Sugar you are right. It is like an addiction. I feel anxious and sad and desperate.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 04:19 PM
But why is your IM feeding your addiction? Why doesn't she know by now that you should not be hearing anything at all about your H?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 04:23 PM
She sent me the texts about the credit card and in that text was the part about me being her. She is 70yrs old and didn't know she could copy and paste AND delete parts of a text. I taught her how to do that this morning over the phone.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 04:26 PM
I don't think she is purposefully feeding my addiction. At 70 I just don't think she's that technologically savvy. I asked her to not tell me anything that is not business several times but now I know why things are slipping through....she didn't know she could edit what she forwarded.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 04:37 PM
It may be time to get another IM. She is not helping you the right way, and inadvertently feeding into your obsession with WH.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
She sent me the texts about the credit card and in that text was the part about me being her. She is 70yrs old and didn't know she could copy and paste AND delete parts of a text. I taught her how to do that this morning over the phone.
She is sending you his actual text messages?

Oh my word, this is so wrong. You are not supposed to see communications from him.

She is supposed to ask you IN HER OWN WORDS anything that is urgent. If it isn't urgent, she should not be contacting you. She should not be chatting about him to you, and she should CERTAINLY not be sending you his text messages.

This is in the basic Plan B information provided on this forum. How is it that you do not get that? Why do you and she STILL not see that reading his text messages is a form of contact, and that contact with him hurts you?

What is the point of having an IM, if all she does is forward you his text messages?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 05:26 PM
Yes she has been forwarding me his text messages. That is how all the stupid crap gets thru. When I asked her why she sends me the bogus crap she said she just forwards his business text. It's during that convo that I figured out she didn't know how to edit. Can you post me the IM link again....I read it once and not again since.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
It may be time to get another IM. She is not helping you the right way, and inadvertently feeding into your obsession with WH.
You see, I don't think this is inadvertent at all.

I think Always encourages all this contact. I don't think she has ever had a proper conversation with her IM about what she is being asked to do, and how to do it properly.

I don't think she has told the IM that she only wants to hear from WH if he 1. ends his affair and 2. has been on a rehabilitation programme for a few months, and is drug and alcohol free, and has undergone an effective anger management course.

I don't think she has told her that, since they have no kids, and since he moved out months ago, there really should not be anything urgent to pass on.

I don't think she has told the IM that she is supposed to filter the urgent messages - which means to pass on the core issue without actually forwarding the email or text.

I don't think she tells the IM that a specific rant should not have been passed on at all.

I think she asks her IM whether she's heard from WH, and uses the IM to check on WH. She does not use the IM to actually disconnect from WH.

This woman is 70, but that should not mean that she cannot understand things. We have judges and politicians older than that - and whether we like or hate their policies, that is not to do with their age. 70 is not over the hill. If this woman really is incapable of understanding clear instructions on her role, then of course she should not be used - but her being 70 is not an explanation of why this is going so wrong.

An IM is only as good as the job description. She cannot do a good job if she has never been told clearly what to do, and what not to do. This IM is being used for contact, rather than for no contact, and that is because Always wants it that way.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes she has been forwarding me his text messages. That is how all the stupid crap gets thru. When I asked her why she sends me the bogus crap she said she just forwards his business text. It's during that convo that I figured out she didn't know how to edit. Can you post me the IM link again....I read it once and not again since.
You're not serious about this.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 05:54 PM
Yes I read it one time
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes I read it one time
What I meant was - you are not serious about cutting contact with your WH. If you were, you would have read that thread properly more than once. If you were serious, you would be desperate to find a way of stopping the hurt that contact causes.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes I read it one time

This sentence says it all. You are addicted to your WH's words and you are holding on to each message as if it's a treasure. Are you reading the other texts multiple times?

You need to break free from this dependency...
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 06:49 PM
No I don't re-read his texts. I delete them.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No I don't re-read his texts. I delete them.
I notice you don't answer all the things I've said to you, and you do not respond to the core message that I am trying to convey. Instead, you reply instantly when you can refute a very specific suggestion about something that is, frankly, rather incidental.

The fact that you delete his texts does not make the central argument of what I've said untrue.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 07:14 PM
Sugar I'm not avoiding your thoughts. I was thinking about them.

I have told my IM the rules as I remember them

But yes...any contact makes me hope.

We do discuss WH...it's a common theme. But mainly regarding the truck and upcoming court.

Because my Aunt is 70 does not mean she's not lucid...my point in her age is that she had no idea how her smart phone worked and what it was capable of...I had to help her with that.

My IM does pass on core issues from me. But stuff got thru that she should've filtered had she known how to do it...she does not engage him in conversation about me....so she says.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
yes...any contact makes me hope.

We do discuss WH...it's a common theme. But mainly regarding the truck and upcoming court.
You should not be discussing your WH with anybody. You are feeding your addiction.

Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
she does not engage him in conversation about me....so she says.
My point was that you should not engage her in conversation about him.
Posted By: PigletWiglet Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 09:20 PM
As hard as it is, Always, try to take this advice and engage in other things. You are still in early days, so it is difficult. However, try to pick up a book or watch television or visit a friend when this happens. It will help you get through it.

It isn't easy and its hard, especially at the beginning because many of your friends and family want to talk about it with you. It's natural for them because its a huge life change for you. However, try to shut them down as best as possible. Just say, "I don't want to talk about him right now. How was your softball game last weekend?" or whatever. They will understand once you start saying it.

If your aunt starts talking with you about it, try to do the same thing. My experience has also been that it is much harder for a close IM. My IM was a close friend for a time and it was hard for her, from an objectivity perspective and also for her not to talk about him all the time (because he was contacting her all the time). Once I got an IM I wasn't close to, it was easier, so it's something to consider. A more objective IM is probably a better filter and won't want to talk to you about it so much.



Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
You should not be discussing your WH with anybody. You are feeding your addiction.

My point was that you should not engage her in conversation about him.

Sugar has been a good help in my case Always - what she says is so true.

Best I can advise is when some says "Hey, so how are things between you and WH?" Just quickly answer with "Nothing new" and move on.

Really, unless I am updating (sometimes minor stuff, sometimes major stuff) or asking for legal advice from some people that "been there done that" I do not post in my MB thread either.

My wife's uncle told me (HerPapaBear), my wife is going to have to fit back into my life - not the other way around.

You are not doing your husband or yourself any favors by clinging to his thoughts... its hard to avoid doing I know. frown

Hang in there.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 10:05 PM
Piglet and Wrestler, thank you so much for reinforcing my message - but I wonder if you realise the full extent?

The aunt that Always talked about is her IM. The issue is not just about stopping friends in general from talking to her about WH; what started my posting today is that it is clear that Always is using her IM to satisfy her need to talk about her husband; to explore what he is doing, what he might be thinking, whether she's heard any more from him, etc.

It isn't so much that the Aunt keeps wanting to talk to Always about WH - it is that Always has been using her Aunt to maintain contact with her WH. Always has never reinforced the message that she does not want to hear form her WH - because, in fact, she wants to hear as much from him, and about him, as possible. She has given her IM/Aunt the impression that the Aunt needs to forward original text messages from him, and indeed all communications, even those on trivial subjects. She has never worked to make her understand that her role as IM is to boil down and "translate" only urgent messages - of which there should be none.

I don't get any general sense of other people wanting to talk to Always about him, and her not wanting this - not at all. On the contrary, the issue that I see is with the amount of frequent contact that takes place in this, a 3 year marriage with no kids, where he moved out and separated his life from her months ago. The presence of an IM has done nothing at all to cut off contact from the WH, and I think that this is because Always has NEVER made it clear that this is what she wants. And that is because she wants contact.

Always: for all the lip service that you have paid during these past weeks to being dark, to blocking his number and email address etc, I have never got the sense that you are on board with Plan B. You don't really believe in it, or want it. Most people want to be in Plan B when the pain of contact becomes unbearable to them, but you have never really believed that it will be better for your mental state to be in NC. You keep looking for signs that your WH is conflicted, because you think that this means you can have him back.

Like any addiction to something that is bad, it hurts to be in withdrawal from the source of the addiction for a while, but NC is the only way to get over the addiction. Contact with the source creates a temporary relief, but it also prolongs the problem and makes it worse, because the substance is bad for you and causes you pain.

That pain will go on, and on, and on, as long as you refuse to remove yourself from the source. Withdrawal hurts for a while, but that stage passes quickly if you stick with NC. If you simply afford yourself contact by another means, you will go on hurting and you will never recover.

We've tried to say this to you numerous times, yet still the messages pass between you and WH. This is not your IM's fault; this is yours.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 11:40 PM
Sugar as hard and raw as this is...I think it's unfair to characterize me as looking for opportunities to discuss my WH. I do not only talk about him. I am not using my Aunt to facilitate needless contact and I have worked with my IM regarding what is and is not necessary info. In fact...it is my WH who has amped up the needless communication. Not me.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/16/16 11:45 PM
But you are right in that there IS something inside of me hoping something good might come my way from WH. In this regard it does me no good to hope that and is more hurtful than helpful and I need to work on that.

Please keep in mind that I did not find this forum until after the affair was revealed. So I've been playing catch up in the advice and going back and redoing steps in order. Yes my WH and I have been separated for a year but in that year we've been talking and communicating. The A was in Nov 2015 but I strongly suspect he had an EA with a different coworker starting in June 2015.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 02/17/16 12:00 AM
Always - dead serious - take a step back from your thread for a little bit. Read what others are saying in other threads... certainly do not walk away from MarriageBuilders, just try to post less in your own.

This was monumental in my first steps into this all. I found that I was always looking for someone to post something that would be like the "AH, thats exactly what will save my marriage" post. And also, every time I got on, I typed how sad I was and just wanted some affirmation that its hard.

Check into MB and certainly keep everyone updated! But maybe try to check once or twice a day (instead of 10-20x a day like I was at first and I am sure you are).

It helps to minimize the talk of sadness and always tell yourself "I am doing OK today"

Take it one day at a time...

Read Dr. Harley's books and stay fluent in his principles, but maybe use your thread less and less as a way to vent out emotions...

you are doing good my friend!
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Devastated - 02/17/16 03:24 PM
Dear AlwaysLookingUp,

The comments from SugarCane may seem to be really getting down on you, yet I also feel that a significant portion of you, consciously or subconsciously, really wants and needs to find out more about your Wayward Husbands current thoughts and feelings.

One of the few things I have learned, is that It Does Not Matter What My Wayward Wife Is Thinking Or Feeling.

I drove myself insane and wasted days, upon days each and every time she sent an e-mail or text message, attempting to scrutinize any hidden meanings and trying to interpret anything I could from any message.

Finally, it is clear to me. NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT.

I refuse to even discuss her with anyone, even, and especially to one of her Sisters, even though she seemingly sides with my feelings. It might be temporarily a nice feeling to get a few nice comments about myself and how despicable my Wayward Wife's actions have been, especially how she has totally abandoned all contact with our Son, from his 9th birthday through his recent 13th birthday.

BUT, then I would be triggering myself all over again.

Sometime, and eventually most of us will get to the point of realizing that our Spouses are not ever going to be who we once envisioned them to be. All they are at some point and time, is dead weight and leeches. They can offer us nothing long term for emotional support and consistency.

The only thing I can count on regarding my Wayward Wife, is that she can Never be counted on, Ever Again, regardless of how much I hoped and Prayed that she would once again reveal herself to be the person I once thought she was.

So, talk with your Aunt and make it inherently clear that NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT.

Anything he needs, he can get or do for himself and she should state that to him as directly and bluntly as she can.

Your Wayward Husband has So Little to offer to you. Let him go. Get him out of your thoughts and completely out of your mind.

Now, meaning right this moment, vow to yourself that you will not subject yourself to any more of this behind the scenes lingering contact and hope to interpret anything he feels.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE THINKS OR FEELS!!!

All that matters, is for YOU to heal and move forward with your life.

I hope I made some sense to you. I really, really sympathize with what you are going through.

Cut those ties today.

LTL
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 02/17/16 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Sometime, and eventually most of us will get to the point of realizing that our Spouses are not ever going to be who we once envisioned them to be. All they are at some point and time, is dead weight and leeches. They can offer us nothing long term for emotional support and consistency.

The only thing I can count on regarding my Wayward Wife, is that she can Never be counted on, Ever Again, regardless of how much I hoped and Prayed that she would once again reveal herself to be the person I once thought she was.
Come, now. Marriages do recover, and people do learn from their mistakes. Establishing true "no contact" is the right advice, but you don't really need to argue that recovery is always hopeless in order to justify it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/17/16 05:33 PM
I'm taking the advice and doing it.

Thanks to all!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 06:41 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes she has been forwarding me his text messages. That is how all the stupid crap gets thru. When I asked her why she sends me the bogus crap she said she just forwards his business text. It's during that convo that I figured out she didn't know how to edit. Can you post me the IM link again....I read it once and not again since.
I see that others have said what I have been saying for weeks and they also see what I see that you aren't serious about MB and Plan B and actually healing. You are just like an addict.

If you were serious about the IM link you would go back through your thread and find it because I have personally posted to you at least twice. But you don't really want to follow Plan B or MB, you want to follow Plan Alwayslookingup.

Here's another thread you probably won't follow.
Read my Lips No Contact Means No Contact
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 06:48 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here you go and the IM training link is in this thread, it's the second post.

How to Plan B Correctly
Yup, I sent this to you a month ago (not counting the other time I posted it) and you didn't even respond or acknowledge it.

And it all makes sense that you've never ever been in Plan B because your IM had been forwarding his exact messages and you never informed the board at all. I have always felt like you've kept your contact with him a secret and you have never been serious about healing. Your addicted to him and lie to the board.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 01:15 PM
Hey not fair. I'm trying here. As I go I tell this board what I'm doing...if I'm doing something wrong I correct it. I am not in plan ALU.

I am in NC. Yes my IM and I have messed up a few times. But like I said i didn't realize that forwarding me his business messages was wrong. Where the problem came was that some crap got thru with the business.

I also realize that talking about him with friends and family keeps me down. I've informed those closest to me that I don't want to always talk about every lil thing regarding lawyers and court and and and. Yes while it filled a void for awhile it's now more toxic than therapeutic.

I appreciate all the feedback and it has served as a wake up call.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 01:18 PM
Brain...I re-read the IM instructions. We have done that. My WH and I do not text but my IM prefers text with WH.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 01:22 PM
Brain...what I informed the board of was the parts of the IM communications that was NOT BUSINESS only....that sent me spinning. I have informed you of the stuff we've done wrong.
Posted By: kerala Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 04:50 PM
Your IM should not be forwarding you any communication from him at all. NO matter what it is.

She should paraphrase whatever small portion of information is required and tell/email you that herself.

Do you and she understand that?
Posted By: Prisca Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 05:10 PM
Quote
In fact...it is my WH who has amped up the needless communication. Not me.
You wouldn't know that if you were in Plan B.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 05:22 PM
Ok. I got it
Posted By: PigletWiglet Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 05:24 PM
**EDIT**
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 05:45 PM
Thanks Piglet.

I am trying.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 06:32 PM
I go to my atty today to prepare paperwork for court on the 3rd.

Do I ask to delay in hopes the affair ends or just move to get it done fast?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
**EDIT**
Have you actually read this whole thread?

Please don't tell others how to post. If someone posts contradicting advice than Dr. Harley then notify the MODS, but please don't tell me how to post.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 08:40 PM
The point is Brain I'm trying. I've gone thru 2 IMs regarding this stuff. It's trial and error.

Vilifying me is equally unhelpful. You did your job...I've re-read the instructions you posted again to my IM.

Though I've said this before we get it. We didn't see where it says don't forward the texts. We are not going to do that in the future.

Thanks!
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Vilifying me is equally unhelpful. You did your job...I've re-read the instructions you posted again to my IM.

Though I've said this before we get it. We didn't see where it says don't forward the texts. We are not going to do that in the future.

Be sure to commit to what you are saying. What frustrates the forum is your backsliding into thinking about your WH constantly. For your Plan B to work you need to focus on yourself, improving yourself first.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 08:59 PM
Quote
Let her correct the mistake.
No one is stopping her.
Posted By: PigletWiglet Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 10:04 PM
Here is some useful advice from someone who has actually executed a dark Plan B and left like dying while leaving her husband--

-Try to get your Aunt to move things to email if possible. It's slower. It might actually slow down the seemingly "need to know" information as well.

-Have someone put parental control software on your computer if needed to block out any and all websites you may be tempted to look at. I got rid of social media, but I could also look at WH's business site, so I had a friend block his business page.

--use a keylogger and have an "accountability partner" who will check it to make sure you aren't searching for things related to WH.

--When you are out with friends and family (especially when you are out) shut down any and all conversation about it. At this point, you probably still feel weak and desperate, so I would assign someone you are with to help with shutting down all conversation. That person is assigned with saying "We won't be discussing WH tonight" if someone brings it up. And that person is assigned with saying to YOU, "ALU, we will not be discussing him tonight" if you bring him up. That person is your mind/conversation gatekeeper.

--If you are alone and thinking about it, do ANYTHING you can to stop. Work, call a friend, read a book, mindlessly watch TV, anything to stop. THe best thing would be to go out with other people and do an activity you enjoy doing, but if you can't go out, then do anything you need to get your mind off of him. I picked up knitting for the times I was alone and it helped greatly. Now I still really like it. I also got a lot of mani-pedis and other beauty treatments. That was the best!

Think of Plan B as a fortress and you are under siege. If a bomb gets through, do whatever you can to patch up the holes in your defense. This analogy helped me greatly.

Look--the alternative is endless pain. The people who are hammering you, have one thing right: you either protect yourself or you will be in a lot of pain for a long time. The choice is really yours.





Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Here is some useful advice from someone who has actually executed a dark Plan B and left like dying while leaving her husband--

-Try to get your Aunt to move things to email if possible. It's slower. It might actually slow down the seemingly "need to know" information as well.

-Have someone put parental control software on your computer if needed to block out any and all websites you may be tempted to look at. I got rid of social media, but I could also look at WH's business site, so I had a friend block his business page.

--use a keylogger and have an "accountability partner" who will check it to make sure you aren't searching for things related to WH.

--When you are out with friends and family (especially when you are out) shut down any and all conversation about it. At this point, you probably still feel weak and desperate, so I would assign someone you are with to help with shutting down all conversation. That person is assigned with saying "We won't be discussing WH tonight" if someone brings it up. And that person is assigned with saying to YOU, "ALU, we will not be discussing him tonight" if you bring him up. That person is your mind/conversation gatekeeper.

--If you are alone and thinking about it, do ANYTHING you can to stop. Work, call a friend, read a book, mindlessly watch TV, anything to stop. THe best thing would be to go out with other people and do an activity you enjoy doing, but if you can't go out, then do anything you need to get your mind off of him. I picked up knitting for the times I was alone and it helped greatly. Now I still really like it. I also got a lot of mani-pedis and other beauty treatments. That was the best!

Think of Plan B as a fortress and you are under siege. If a bomb gets through, do whatever you can to patch up the holes in your defense. This analogy helped me greatly.

Look--the alternative is endless pain. The people who are hammering you, have one thing right: you either protect yourself or you will be in a lot of pain for a long time. The choice is really yours.
I have been in a dark Plan B with 3 kids for 10+ years. And you left the board for MONTHS because you didn't like how posters were posting different than you and you got upset and left. And now you're back doing the same.

She's had posters who have been in a dark Plan b longer than you and she still did her own thing. She is also posting on other forums and doing contradicting actions.

I think you need to read the whole thread. It took her forever to expose (and to this day still hasn't exposed to OW's side or their work). And of course with being in Plan B the exposure is no longer an issue.

And besides all of the above this a short marriage with no children and her WH is abusive and a drug addict.

All we have been doing is trying to help you follow MB. When someone continues to do their own thing and not follow advice and your actions speak different we aren't stupid people and have been around along time and know when someone his serious or not.

Sugarcane posted some fantastic and very helpful posts. She didn't "hammer" her at all, she stated the truth.
Posted By: PigletWiglet Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 10:56 PM
**EDIT**
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 11:40 PM
I was advised by Melody to not bother exposing to OW family since I didn't find out OW family til after my initial FB exposure and WH family.

Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 11:48 PM
I'm not sure why or how this became and attack.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
**EDIT**
You don't know my story at all. You have no idea when I went into Plan B.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/18/16 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'm not sure why or how this became and attack.
When PigletWiglet basically came behind some great posts and telling posters how to post. That's how. That's not her job. That's the job of the MODS's and she knows that.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 12:04 AM
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
She is new at this. Let her correct the mistake. She has told her IM and If this is still happening, then get all over her. She said she heard the message and is correcting her behavior. Give her a chance to do so.

With all due respect, you are a day late and a dollar short. She has been given the same message for weeks about the IM. So when this comes up AGAIN, she needs to be reminded again. No need to be a scold when posters are just doing their job!

It's bad form to show up late in the game and lecture posters who have been here all along...doing their job! You need to chill, friend.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
She is new at this. Let her correct the mistake. She has told her IM and If this is still happening, then get all over her. She said she heard the message and is correcting her behavior. Give her a chance to do so.

Posters like SC and BH (and others) have been following this thread and are well aware of what is a newbie mistake and what is not. They explained specifically what they are seeing that is concerning to them. There is no need to jump in here and basically dismiss their posts to Always. She needs to hear it.

Always, just understand that this is a COMMON problem...a BW who isn't really serious about going into Plan B. Oftentimes (and I say this from experience --> having gotten them myself from my MB friends and also dishing them out) a 2x4 is what is necessary to help a BW out of her own fog.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
She is new at this. Let her correct the mistake. She has told her IM and If this is still happening, then get all over her. She said she heard the message and is correcting her behavior. Give her a chance to do so.

Posters like SC and BH (and others) have been following this thread and are well aware of what is a newbie mistake and what is not. They explained specifically what they are seeing that is concerning to them. There is no need to jump in here and basically dismiss their posts to Always. She needs to hear it.

Always, just understand that this is a COMMON problem...a BW who isn't really serious about going into Plan B. Oftentimes (and I say this from experience --> having gotten them myself from my MB friends and also dishing them out) a 2x4 is what is necessary to help a BW out of her own fog.

Always - if you didn't notice, I am going through this as well on virtually the same time table you are on.

That being said - I remember when I was starting exposure and SugarCane hit me with some posts that really upset me, at first. I also think SusieQ has hit me with some hard stuff as well.

Every person that has posted here with some "hard stuff to swallow" means well I promise. They are looking out for you. They know its hard. The previous mentions, SugarCane and SusieQ's posts, were monumental in my circumstance.

No body is trying to cut you down. You are "trying" but they are noticing a trend in your behavior. You don't need a nudge at this point, you need as SusieQ put it, a 2"x4" to the head.

These people are awesome people.. they are on this forum to belittle anyone.

While in betrayed state (like I was) you can say you are trying and sincerely think you are, but they are helping you get to the point you need to be at! They may be direct or blunt, but everything is time sensitive and they know it.

Lets get you on a firm Plan B Always!! You can do this!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:22 AM
I understand what everyone is saying. I know it all comes from a place of caring.

I struggle with not talking about WH and the upcoming divorce. I do not struggle as much with contact with WH. We have none. My IM and I agree that until court there is zero to discuss.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:26 AM
While I understand that what info has slipped thru should not have I cannot unhear it and I analyze it...obsessively. I don't understand it and so I struggle. Talking about WH is a double edged sword. So is thinking about him. And while I understand plan B is for me I feel like it's giving up too.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
And while I understand plan B is for me I feel like it's giving up too.

It is giving up. It is giving up the pain and misery. People who stay in a dark Plan B experience immense relief.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:40 AM
Maybe that is my struggle. Coming to terms with giving up. It goes against my being...not being a quitter. So how do I balance that with Plan B?
Posted By: PigletWiglet Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:41 AM
**EDIT**

Moderator's note: I have already emailed you privately and instructed you to stop quarreling with the other posters. Please do stop.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:42 AM
I didn't overlook it. It's been good advice from all...whether communicated nicely or more forcefully.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm not going to respond to any personal comments about my opinions about approach. I never called anyone out personally, but I am personally called out.

You scolded the posters who were posting to Always and identified them by the advice they gave. It was very offensive.
Posted By: reading Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 07:28 AM
Plan B isn't giving up.

It is choosing yourself over the drama. Win.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 02/19/16 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Maybe that is my struggle. Coming to terms with giving up. It goes against my being...not being a quitter. So how do I balance that with Plan B?

Don't think of it as being a quitter, but it does feel - to me anyway - like you want to continue to be *caretaker* for your WH.

I think you did play that role, what with his other issues, and you don't seem able to let go of that....always wondering what he's thinking, or why he did this or that. Always, hunny, you've got to let it go. He's on his own. That's what Plan B is all about. He's on his own to make his mistakes, and you are insulated from it to begin to heal.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/26/16 02:04 PM
My court date looms in less than a week. Sigh. Getting nervous. Not sure how I should act when we are in the same room that doesn't further inflame the situation. Divorce is ugly in nature. How to prevent reactions to him probably purposefully goading me.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 02/26/16 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My court date looms in less than a week. Sigh. Getting nervous. Not sure how I should act when we are in the same room that doesn't further inflame the situation. Divorce is ugly in nature. How to prevent reactions to him probably purposefully goading me.

Do you have to be present? Maybe best not to be there.

I was scared, too. Then WH didn't even show up! His attorney handled it all, and everything else was done between them, and truth be told, I probably didn't even need to be there, either.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/26/16 03:28 PM
We both are ordered to appear. It's an early resolution management conference. It's one of the only things we BOTH have to be present for. Neither of us have attorneys...I do pay an hourly rate to an atty who prepares the paperwork properly since he filed on his own.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/27/16 01:10 AM
In plan B...how long do I stay off FB? I'm not friends with WH nor any of his friends or family any longer...so how long do I need to stay off?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/28/16 02:43 AM
Advice on how I should behave in our mediation coming up this coming Thursday the 3rd?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/28/16 02:43 AM
Non love busting in an already contentious situation.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/28/16 03:37 AM
It will be the first time since I've seen WH since Oct 31st....
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 02/28/16 11:32 AM
Do you have to show?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/28/16 02:00 PM
Yes. It's the only court appearance I am ordered to attend.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/29/16 03:11 AM
Having some fall out from exposure. My WH is telling my IM that he WAS thinking of reconciling...but...I guess the exposure letter FINALLY made it to the OW sobriety sponsor...and now he is threatening to send my HR dept proof I'm harassing him. My IM told me this because she was not sure if I needed to know this since he's talking about my employment now.

Thoughts?
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 02/29/16 04:24 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Having some fall out from exposure. My WH is telling my IM that he WAS thinking of reconciling...but...I guess the exposure letter FINALLY made it to the OW sobriety sponsor...and now he is threatening to send my HR dept proof I'm harassing him. My IM told me this because she was not sure if I needed to know this since he's talking about my employment now.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't worry about it. Your exposure letter was factual right? How were you harassing him by stating facts?

Your IM should filter this as well.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 02/29/16 04:27 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Having some fall out from exposure. My WH is telling my IM that he WAS thinking of reconciling...but...I guess the exposure letter FINALLY made it to the OW sobriety sponsor...and now he is threatening to send my HR dept proof I'm harassing him. My IM told me this because she was not sure if I needed to know this since he's talking about my employment now.

Thoughts?

I would ask your IM not to pass on these ridiculous threats. When he makes idle threats, she should always ignore them.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/29/16 05:00 AM
Ok. She wasn't sure since he seemed very angry about something. And was threatening to go to my HR. Yes my letter was factual to her sponsor.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 02/29/16 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Ok. She wasn't sure since he seemed very angry about something. And was threatening to go to my HR. Yes my letter was factual to her sponsor.

He's flailing. Looking for a way in, a "chink in the armor" to get to you.

IGNORE. IGNORE. Stay dark.

And when you see him in court - DO NOT ENGAGE. Let your attorney say what needs to be said to him. You can appear cordial, but DO NOT ENGAGE!

He will probably try to get a rise out of you, and will try to say all the things he's wanted to say all these weeks, but couldn't "get to you" directly.

Prepare to stay stone-faced, and not get emotional in front of him. Cordial, but distant.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 02/29/16 09:34 PM
Ok
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 04:45 PM
If your IM is not sure wether or not to pass information, it probably isn't relevant, especially if it is said in anger. She shouldn't have told you about his anger. Remember, she is your firewall.

If you see him, don't respond unless you "have" to. If you do, keep it from getting personal. The cat purred, snow is cold. Subjects not related to you. If he complaints he is having a hard time - well, everyone has a hard time every once in a while, make some vague general remark.

He isn't the one in control. He knows your terms, stand your ground. If you give in a little bit, he will be motivated to keep trying. Don't give an inch.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 05:08 PM
Ok
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 05:18 PM
I'm just really nervous. His old pastor called me...I explained the MB principals and he agreed to them...but not before telling me that something major happened...of which he wouldn't tell me...this past Sunday. That WH was contemplating reconciliation...but whatever happened Sunday night has made him KNOW he is never coming back. Oooooooook. News to me. Plus...my email is blocked...but my parents called yesterday LIVID...because WH emailed my mom threatening to revel family "secrets" if I don't stop meddling in his life...again...no reference to what I did....plus telling my folks that he's not having sex even though it's none of anyone's business. So...yes...I'm spinning and all the more nervous for this Thursday. My parents are not speaking to me. Yesterday WH was blowing up another family members phone with texts...I said I don't want to know.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 05:22 PM
So despite being NC....I still got vague messages from my parents that support NC but we're so upset over WH threatening email they called in a tizzy. My IM is good....for the most part about keeping stuff from me...I assume he blew her phone up too but she's not saying. But my folks are angry and another family member on the outside is now getting texts...WH seems to be lashing out over something I have no clue....with anyone and everyone he can reach out too. All this 2 days before court.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 05:25 PM
Ignore, rinse, and repeat.
Just FYI, your court date will probably be very uneventful and anticlimactic.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'm just really nervous. His old pastor called me...I explained the MB principals and he agreed to them...but not before telling me that something major happened...of which he wouldn't tell me...this past Sunday. That WH was contemplating reconciliation...but whatever happened Sunday night has made him KNOW he is never coming back. Oooooooook. News to me. Plus...my email is blocked...but my parents called yesterday LIVID...because WH emailed my mom threatening to revel family "secrets" if I don't stop meddling in his life...again...no reference to what I did....plus telling my folks that he's not having sex even though it's none of anyone's business. So...yes...I'm spinning and all the more nervous for this Thursday. My parents are not speaking to me. Yesterday WH was blowing up another family members phone with texts...I said I don't want to know.

Next time, stop the person mid-sentence an tell them the only thing you want to hear is if WH wants to meet your terms for reconciliation. If they are calling about anything else, you dont need to hear it. Then hang up the phone.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 06:08 PM
You do not have to listen to the people your H is recruiting to help him hurt and abuse you (feel free to tell them that too).
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 06:42 PM
Take a couple of breaths, find something nice to do and keep your mind occupied with more pleasant things. And what Apple says, you don't have to listen. Reconsider changing your phonenumber, or get a prepaid phone, in case he decides to call you from a different number (or if you don't want calls from his pastor again).

He has lost control of the situation and he doesn't like it one single bit.

Plan your activities for the week, you will benefit if you have a schedule. Hang in there.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I'm just really nervous. His old pastor called me...I explained the MB principals and he agreed to them...but not before telling me that something major happened...of which he wouldn't tell me...this past Sunday. That WH was contemplating reconciliation...but whatever happened Sunday night has made him KNOW he is never coming back. Oooooooook. News to me. Plus...my email is blocked...but my parents called yesterday LIVID...because WH emailed my mom threatening to revel family "secrets" if I don't stop meddling in his life...again...no reference to what I did....plus telling my folks that he's not having sex even though it's none of anyone's business. So...yes...I'm spinning and all the more nervous for this Thursday. My parents are not speaking to me. Yesterday WH was blowing up another family members phone with texts...I said I don't want to know.

If your husband was serious about reconciliation he would do whatever is necessary. HE IS NOT. You should just ignore all this drama and stay out of it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 10:24 PM
Freaking out. I now have family from all over the place calling me. I guess WH went on a RAMPAGE yday calling anyone he could get a hold of...wanting me to stop meddling in his life...making all kinds of threats...trying to talk these outside the circle family members to get me to FLEE him and leave him alone. Guys...I have NO IDEA what he is talking about. The only thing I can think of is OW sobriety sponsor finally got my exposure email that I sent WEEKS ago...sent really close after the initial FB/WH family exposure letters. If she went back to her sobriety place and they just got around to saying something...I have no idea. Telling people he is no longer having sex...he would rather go back to drugs and alcohol than stay married...or he will move to China to escape me. He just wants to be left alone in peace...tell her I'm no good...tell her to flee me. Convince her to leave me alone. Uhmmmm hello...I have left him alone. We have no non business communication. And it's thru my IM. WTH? Coincidence that this is all coming 2 days before mediation? I think not. Makes me nervous as to what he is up too.
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 10:50 PM
Don't answer the phone.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/01/16 10:51 PM
After the 5th call I didn't. So upsetting...and for what?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 01:39 AM
So...out of pure hatred and retribution...WH sent a giant group text to multiple family members...who are calling me...texting me...exposing family secrets of MY family that are terribly old and not spoken of for 30yrs...to people who never knew. Humiliating my parents horribly...and hurtful to me.

I still don't know what I did that he chose to do this...but he is PISSED about something. Been in tears all day. Eff NC today...WH has been out of control for a few days supposedly and while I'm not going to contact him directly I'm sooooo angry and disgusted. My parents aren't speaking to me they are so upset and hurt and livid with WH.

Question...WHY?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 01:44 AM
And BTW these are all new people calling...texting..etc from earlier today. I can understand how wanting to hit back at me for exposure of the affair would piss him off...but my family has been nothing but kind and gracious to my husband. This was just a low low blow.
Posted By: reading Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 03:46 AM
Probably the OW has given him grief about people knowing about her involvement with a married man and WH is trying to prove to her that he has her back by trying to put you in your place.

Tell anyone, your parents included, that you will not apologize for standing up for yourself and your marriage.

Be strong.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 03:57 AM
My parents...family and friends all supported my exposure. What they're hurt over is the evil and vengeful attack on people who did nothing to WH but love him and extend grace. I do not apologize for anything. But I'm done. There is nothing left to fight for.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 11:05 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My parents...family and friends all supported my exposure. What they're hurt over is the evil and vengeful attack on people who did nothing to WH but love him and extend grace. I do not apologize for anything. But I'm done. There is nothing left to fight for.

To be done is your right and I agree with it. You may change your mind in a few days.

I have never seen a WH respond the way your WH has attacking his in-laws. And, I have been on infidelity forums a long time.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 12:37 PM
I will drive myself mad trying to figure out the WHY. No one knows. I'm so disgusted.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 12:59 PM
I was nothing but loyal to WH..even on here as people here thought he might be worth letting go...I still was loyal. I believed in him. I tolerated all the wayward babble...the fog crap...all of it. But this did me in. Group texting and emailing anyone and everyone...making threats...exposing personal private family matters to non essential people...all in an effort to make me stop meddling in his life...was a new low. Truth is...I still don't know what I did to set him off...he was gonna get his divorce regardless of any exposure. So it was pure evil and vengeful hate. My parents have not spoken to me in two days now...and my loyalty to him just died. Funny thing is...it makes no sense why HE is hanging on like this. Revenge? Hate? Self loathing? Guilt? Whatever it is its of his own making and he just tried to take everyone down on his sinking ship. What a rat [censored].
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 01:03 PM
Oh and the common theme throughout all these peoples recounting of his messages....was WH did nothing wrong...not the A...not the DV...no marital arguments...nothing....the ONLY thing WH took responsibility for was his mistake in marrying me...that he regrets ever meeting me. Even now...he is unable to see his part and be accountable.
Posted By: living_well Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I was nothing but loyal to WH..even on here as people here thought he might be worth letting go...I still was loyal. I believed in him. I tolerated all the wayward babble...the fog crap...all of it. But this did me in. Group texting and emailing anyone and everyone...making threats...exposing personal private family matters to non essential people...all in an effort to make me stop meddling in his life...was a new low. Truth is...I still don't know what I did to set him off...he was gonna get his divorce regardless of any exposure. So it was pure evil and vengeful hate. My parents have not spoken to me in two days now...and my loyalty to him just died. Funny thing is...it makes no sense why HE is hanging on like this. Revenge? Hate? Self loathing? Guilt? Whatever it is its of his own making and he just tried to take everyone down on his sinking ship. What a rat [censored].


He is a drug addict. Nothing matters to him except his next fix. Stop trying to understand, this will drive you insane.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 01:11 PM
He hasn't used in nearly 6yrs...but honestly...I wonder now...because Monday's mass texting and emailing people was all characterized as insane...rampage...off his rocker...on the war path...extreme anger...uhmmm...just to name a few.

I know that A's are an addiction but I seriously wonder if Monday he fell off the wagon.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
He hasn't used in nearly 6yrs...but honestly...I wonder now...because Monday's mass texting and emailing people was all characterized as insane...rampage...off his rocker...on the war path...extreme anger...uhmmm...just to name a few.

I know that A's are an addiction but I seriously wonder if Monday he fell off the wagon.

Stop obsessing over him and go back to Plan B. You are only hurting yourself.
Posted By: Ron_C Re: Devastated - 03/02/16 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Oh and the common theme throughout all these peoples recounting of his messages....was WH did nothing wrong...not the A...not the DV...no marital arguments...nothing....the ONLY thing WH took responsibility for was his mistake in marrying me...that he regrets ever meeting me. Even now...he is unable to see his part and be accountable.


My WW told me the samething her biggest regret was marrying me. And has been unhappy during the whole marrage. I write it up as the fog talking and yes it hurts I just let it go.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/03/16 02:00 PM
Today is court and I'm reall really nervous.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 03/03/16 05:04 PM
Good luck AlwaysLookingUp - praying for you
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/04/16 04:52 AM
So...court got extended til June. WH did not refinance the truck. So now he has til June to get it done.

Kicker...WH asks me if we can be friends and that I'm a good person. That since we should've never been married to begin with...we should've only been friends....he would be willing to still keep in contact as friends. This right after he told my folks on Monday that they raised a devil. WTH?

In my mind...that was nothing more than a back door approach to feeling ok about the divorce...getting my buy in as just friends. Uhmmmmm...no. I told him that I married for love and life and took my vows seriously...even tho he didn't. His response was oh ok....like really what did he expect me to say?

Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 03/04/16 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
So...court got extended til June. WH did not refinance the truck. So now he has til June to get it done.

Kicker...WH asks me if we can be friends and that I'm a good person. That since we should've never been married to begin with...we should've only been friends....he would be willing to still keep in contact as friends. This right after he told my folks on Monday that they raised a devil. WTH?

In my mind...that was nothing more than a back door approach to feeling ok about the divorce...getting my buy in as just friends. Uhmmmmm...no. I told him that I married for love and life and took my vows seriously...even tho he didn't. His response was oh ok....like really what did he expect me to say?

Get over it, get on with it.

You need to "go dark" again. NO contact.

He really does sound like a drug addict that is using to me. First crazy, frenzied, then calm and "normal." C'mon, girl, think! This is not what you need. You've got to get your family to support you and just let his rantings roll off their backs (if they can't stop him from reaching them).

In the meantime, figure out what you're going to do about that truck. It sounds like this will be DRAMA that will keep you sucked into his world until June if you don't do something. You don't need that now. He's spinning out of control, and YOU need to remove yourself from it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/04/16 11:21 PM
Oh I know....his let's be friends was at court.

And I'm working like mad to get my car refi'd so he can get the truck in his name.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 03/05/16 05:23 AM
He wants to be friends after Mondays tirade? Yup sounds like he he is using again.

Are you back in a dark Plan B now?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/05/16 05:48 AM
Yes I am back to NC. I ended up trading my car in for a new one. The title was in both our names as and/or so I didn't need his signature for anything.

I told my IM to tell WH his name is off the title so he can go get the truck in his name now.

He argues with her wanting proof. So she asked if I wanted to send proof.

I feel like it's not my responsibility to lead this dog n pony show of his as he can call the cars financial institution himself to see that he's no longer on that car because it's gone. I don't want to be a wench but come on he's nearly 48yrs old.

Plus...his OW is a hood rat and telling him I bought a new car....to me...only signals to OW there's money to be had if only she could convice WH to come after me for more...and that possibility scared me.

Besides am I wrong in that it's no longer WH business how I got him off the title? I told my IM to just send the same text saying simply he is off title...or ignore him...is that wrong?
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/05/16 08:04 AM
How about changing your phone number now? Give your new number to people who really need to have it (like work). Let your old number go to voice mail, saying you can be reached by email (give the adress that is monitored by IM).
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/05/16 12:40 PM
Goody my WH does not call my house phone ever. His cell phone is blocked. His email is blocked. Im not sure why you suggest changing my house phone number in response to the car thing...tho I could've missed something. Currently my WH has no trouble with IM.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/05/16 01:30 PM
But...I will call the phone company today and chg my home phone. I only have a home phone for Internet anyway. So no harm no fowl in changing the number.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/05/16 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Goody my WH does not call my house phone ever. His cell phone is blocked. His email is blocked. Im not sure why you suggest changing my house phone number in response to the car thing...tho I could've missed something. Currently my WH has no trouble with IM.
A couple of days ago, people were calling you because of his actions. That kills your plan B. Changing your number is taking control, deciding who is able to call you and who isn't.

I expect him to try to find his way around the IM in the future. Even if he hasn't contacted you on it the last months, at some point, he may think of calling you from a different phone than the one you blocked.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/05/16 05:47 PM
I don't know. He is mad as hell right now that he didn't have to sign anything on my car change over. Prolly was a shock and loss of perceived control to hold over my head. All he has to do now is refi the truck and this nightmare can be done.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 03:18 AM
I asked IM to ask WH to pick a weekend to come get his personal belongings. WH is being obtuse...maybe decent ....????....and said I can pick the weekend. Before he was hot to trot to get it...but had to wait for court...but now he can come get his stuff he's like oh she can pick a date. Am I over analyzing why WH can't just answer a question to pick a date or is he being decent?

I guess I am Leary because I can see picking a date and him being difficult.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 03:45 AM
People who are in Plan B do NOT know all this stuff about their WS, nor do the analyze every nuance of their WS's behavior. Why pretend you are in Plan B? Do you think you are gaining something by it? Plan B is for your own piece of mind. You don't act as if you are interested in that. You just keep blogging about every new outrage as if our function was to help you keep score.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 03:56 AM
It needs to be done. He needs to come get his stuff...planning that is what my IM is negotiating. How do I remove myself from being the ring leader of HIS circus? My divorce will be final in a matter of months.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 04:14 AM
How am I supposed to be NC and still plan the two major issues left...which are minor relative to other people....the truck refinance that I will need to sign off on and the pick up of his things? How do I plan B correctly those two things?

My IM asks me...I tell her my plan...she tells WH and then it goes sideways from there. Am I supposed to just tell IM to tell WH how it's gonna be? Should there be no good will in trying to be accommodating?
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 07:42 AM
Pack his personal belongings (or have someone do it), transfer them to a neutral place, he can pick them up whenever he wants to. You don't need to know how or when or why.

Or do you cling to this kind of contact?

On other threads, you encourage betrayed spouses to expose asap. In the future, you will probably encourge betrayed spouses to do a stellar plan B and not make the same mistakes you are making right now.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 02:36 PM
Ok...I will stop posting on others threads.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 06:01 PM
You're missing her point, always. She was not telling you not to post on other threads - not at all. She was saying that, you would not expose when you first came here - you were terrified, and had to be pushed uphill until you did it. Now you're the biggest cheerleader for exposure. One day it will be the same with Plan B: you won't do it properly now, but one day, when you HAVE done it properly for a while and see how good it is, you'll be the biggest cheerleader for Plan B.

Nobody has the right to tell you not to post on others' threads, and goody was not doing that.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 07:27 PM
Ok
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Ok
So what is your plan? What is your plan to deal with his stuff?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 10:22 PM
I honestly don't have a plan. So far what I think I can do is get all his stuff packed up and put into the garage. Then I will have my IM tell him that his stuff is ready for pick up and have my brother and father at my house...to oversee and I will be gone so I don't have to see him.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 10:39 PM
That is a very good plan. You should do that.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 10:40 PM
However, you need a backup for when he does not show. Plastic bags dumped in his driveway works for me.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 03/06/16 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I honestly don't have a plan. So far what I think I can do is get all his stuff packed up and put into the garage. Then I will have my IM tell him that his stuff is ready for pick up and have my brother and father at my house...to oversee and I will be gone so I don't have to see him.

I think the key is to look at your own thread as if you were someone else, and then think what kind of advice you would give yourself. Then execute on that advice.

It's easier said than done, to be dispassionate about your own problems. I need to do that myself as well!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/07/16 12:46 AM
My WH lives in an apt and refuses to tell me where he lives. So I cannot dump bags anywhere plus there is a couch and dresser etc that I'm not willing to shell my bucks out to rent a u haul just to hand deliver to him. He will have to come to my home. I doubt there will be a problem...buuuuuut who knows.

And yes...it's always more clear to me when seeing what others should do. I'm in the middle of my own forest and I can't see the trees.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/07/16 12:49 AM
I think it's just that my father especially be here to oversee considering the threats he made to my father when he outted private family matters concerning him. That way WH can't come in my house or sheds and and and...there will be rules set in place before he can come....like OW is not permitted on my property...he can't go in my house...etc
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/07/16 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I think it's just that my father especially be here to oversee considering the threats he made to my father when he outted private family matters concerning him. That way WH can't come in my house or sheds and and and...there will be rules set in place before he can come....like OW is not permitted on my property...he can't go in my house...etc
I did say that this was a good idea. I wasn't being entirely serious about the plastic bags.

Do try not to turn this into something else to stress about for weeks on end, like you did with the truck. Just do as you said and give him a date, and have your father there. It will probably be fine and uneventful.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/07/16 01:06 AM
Agreed....tho the truck has yet to be resolved. But I'm hoping he does so quickly.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 03/07/16 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I think it's just that my father especially be here to oversee considering the threats he made to my father when he outted private family matters concerning him. That way WH can't come in my house or sheds and and and...there will be rules set in place before he can come....like OW is not permitted on my property...he can't go in my house...etc
I did say that this was a good idea. I wasn't being entirely serious about the plastic bags.

Do try not to turn this into something else to stress about for weeks on end, like you did with the truck. Just do as you said and give him a date, and have your father there. It will probably be fine and uneventful.
I agree with SugarCane that you should do this.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Devastated - 03/07/16 01:06 PM
Always,

Have your IM notify him that his dresser & other belongings will be out by the street at 6 pm the next evening before garbage day. Whatever he doesn't want will be picked up by the garbage service the next day.

You can have them to the curb an hour before the appointed time and then leave. Have someone else, like your father, be in your house in case he tries something funny.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/07/16 01:18 PM
I will not put on curb. There is legal liability because he is asking for his things via the divorce. We are still in middle of divorce proceedings. I do not anticipate an issue with him picking up from my garage. My dad and my brother will both be here at my home ensuring no problems arise. They are 6'8 and 6'7 respectively.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 03/08/16 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I will not put on curb. There is legal liability because he is asking for his things via the divorce. We are still in middle of divorce proceedings. I do not anticipate an issue with him picking up from my garage. My dad and my brother will both be here at my home ensuring no problems arise. They are 6'8 and 6'7 respectively.

Can't they take those things to one of THEIR houses, to wait for his pick-up?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/08/16 11:25 PM
No because that is work for me and my friends...having to move furniture. Plus I would have to rent a U-Haul. My WH can come get his stuff out of my garage and I will be GONE for the drama.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/10/16 02:36 AM
Got all WH stuff packed up and put into the garage. Sigh...that sucked. Getting real now.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/10/16 06:57 AM
Handling his things makes you think of him, so find distractions for yourself. Don't look in the garage until it is all gone.

Don't give hum unlimited time to pick it up, make your IM give him a few times/dates that are convenient (for your father to be there, for you to be out of the house).

It is ok for your father to tell him what he thinks of his affair when he collects it.

You are in my prayers.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/10/16 01:28 PM
Well my IM told him that one of the next 2 Sunday's works for me. But he has not responded. Our next court date isn't until June 2nd. So I suppose he could wait it out until it's all finalized. Though I don't know why he would want to do that knowing its out in the elements under an open carport/unfinished garage. So now I wait for him. Whatev....moving forward!
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 07:34 PM
So...update...my IM told me that my WH has expressed that he is torn about what to do. That he is considering reconciliation...with one caveat...he will not quit his job where his affair partners work...and he will buy his own condo or TH...so that he will never feel insecure again. Is this respond worthy? For me...not quitting his job and buying a bachelor pad is a never gonna happen thing. Do I unblock his email and discuss with him directly? My IM has not responded but she did communicate with me this information as she took it as a signal for possible reconciliation.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 07:47 PM
I guess he told my IM that his job will pay for his masters degree...as the excuse for not being willing to leave his current job where these women also work. Excuses to me. Did the PA end...seems like it...but who really knows anymore...I sure don't. And honestly...I can no longer tell the difference in truth...lies...games or manipulation.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
So...update...my IM told me that my WH has expressed that he is torn about what to do. That he is considering reconciliation...with one caveat...he will not quit his job where his affair partners work...and he will buy his own condo or TH...so that he will never feel insecure again. Is this respond worthy?

Sigh.

Once again, this information should never have reached you from your IM. What is it that she still does not understand? Is this a) urgent financial information, b) urgent information about your children (I know that you have none in common), c) information stating that he has met the terms of your Plan B letter and is begging you take him back, or d) none of the above?

In fact, these thought should never have been discussed between your IM and WH at all. Under what circumstances is he telling her his thoughts? That does not sound as if he has learned that she is there only to pass on urgent information. It sounds as if she and he are STILL discussing your marriage together. That is not an IM's role. She wants you to get back together, and she is passing on any crumbs that he passes her, hoping that you will eat them. She knows that there is a strong possibility that you will eat them. Why does she want you to go back to this drug-addled, alcoholic, violent adulterer?

Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
For me...not quitting his job and buying a bachelor pad is a never gonna happen thing. Do I unblock his email and discuss with him directly? My IM has not responded but she did communicate with me this information as she took it as a signal for possible reconciliation.
always, you can communicate with your WH as soon as you like, in whatever manner you want to, but if you are here to receive Marriage Builders advice, you already know the answer to that.

What were the conditions given in your Plan B letter, that you sent telling him when you would be willing to talk to him again? Did the conditions include his staying in the job? Did the conditions say that he could buy his own condo and keep one foot out of the door?

And while we're on that subject, did they say anything about his drug and alcohol addiction? Has he said anything to the IM to show that he has been in a treatment programme for several months, and is clean and dry?

You're desperate to have him back; we get that. However, we on the Marriage Builders forum are not going to endorse "Plan always", where you take him back on his terms.

By all means unblock your email and talk to him, if that's what you want. Have him back while he works with OW and uses drugs and alcohol, if that's what you want. Is that what you want?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I guess he told my IM that his job will pay for his masters degree...as the excuse for not being willing to leave his current job where these women also work. Excuses to me. Did the PA end...seems like it...but who really knows anymore...I sure don't. And honestly...I can no longer tell the difference in truth...lies...games or manipulation.
She is clearly passing on whole text messages again, as well as passing on thoughts and excuses that she should be shielding you from. She is not an Intermediary at all.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
So...update...my IM told me that my WH has expressed that he is torn about what to do. That he is considering reconciliation...with one caveat...he will not quit his job where his affair partners work...and he will buy his own condo or TH...so that he will never feel insecure again. Is this respond worthy? For me...not quitting his job and buying a bachelor pad is a never gonna happen thing. Do I unblock his email and discuss with him directly? My IM has not responded but she did communicate with me this information as she took it as a signal for possible reconciliation.

The IM should never pass this nonsense onto you. What part of "must meet all conditions" does she not get? You already communicated your conditions to him via the Plan B letter.

The IM should NEVER send you this stuff. If he is unclear about your conditions, she only needs to send the Plan B letter again and not even mention this to you.

You should never have any communication with him until he has agreed to meet your conditions 100%. He is not even at 1%.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 08:47 PM
Always, if you are not serious about Plan B how can you expect it from him?

Quote
.with one caveat...he will not quit his job where his affair partners work...and he will buy his own condo or TH...so that he will never feel insecure again.

This is not a person who is even remotely serious.

I wish you would find an intermediary. Even so, she should only respond back that: "this information won't be passed onto Always. Her conditions are that you leave the job and commit to the marriage. Getting a condo does not meet that criteria in the least."
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 09:27 PM
I don't know if my plan B said any of that. I will have to go thru my emails to see what I wrote. I know it said most of what you said...but not the condo...I didn't see that coming nor was it in any letter.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 10:01 PM
Yes I sent one of the sample plan B letters. Minus the separate residences clause. I added that and emailed it to my IM asking her to forward to WH again.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes I sent one of the sample plan B letters. Minus the separate residences clause. I added that and emailed it to my IM asking her to forward to WH again.
Could you post a copy of exactly what you wrote?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I don't know if my plan B said any of that. I will have to go thru my emails to see what I wrote. I know it said most of what you said...but not the condo...I didn't see that coming nor was it in any letter.

You don't need to specifically say anything about the condo. The fact that he wrote such a stupid thing is an indicator he is not serious. That is covered under "commit to our marital recovery." Keeping a separate residence is NOT the comment of someone who is serious.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 10:21 PM
I will when I get home...cant post from cell phine too long for cell that it covers the SUBMIT button
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 10:26 PM
Always, I am concerned that your IM not only does not understand her role, but also has no sense of discernment. Surely she knows his letter was not a sign of sincerity? How could she not know that?

Do you have anyone else who could step into this role for you?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Always, I am concerned that your IM not only does not understand her role, but also has no sense of discernment. Surely she knows his letter was not a sign of sincerity? How could she not know that?
I'm concerned about that too, but I am also concerned that you posted here asking whether you should unblock his number and discuss this "proposal" with him. I'm very worried that you were in any way willing to take this seriously. You still do not have any determination not to let him treat you badly again.

I still think that the reason the IM passed this on to you is because you want her to. You still have not conveyed to her that you do not want to hear crap from your H, because, I suspect you are only paying lip service to Plan B. I think you've been treating her as a mediator, and not an intermediary, all along. I think you're hoping that as a mediator, she will sweet-talk your H into going back with you. That's why you have not stopped her discussing his thoughts with him - you think and hope that this will do some good.

And it's because you'll take him back with no conditions at all, not even that he ends his affair, that you come here seeking permission to give serious consideration to the scraps that he throws your way.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 11:32 PM
In re-reading my plan B letter you both are right SC and ML. I never gave that letter to either of my IMs. I did that. And you're right SC...it's table scraps and I'm better than that.

No I don't use my IM as a mediator. And she has done well to not pass crap thru since the last time we discussed her.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
In re-reading my plan B letter you both are right SC and ML. I never gave that letter to either of my IMs. I did that.
Did you send any version of a Plan B letter to your H? If so, what did it say?

Or are you saying you never sent a Plan B letter at all?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I guess he told my IM that his job will pay for his masters degree...as the excuse for not being willing to leave his current job where these women also work. Excuses to me.
I've spent a lot of time reading your thread from the beginning (I've done this before), and I see that you never exposed to his employer. We pushed and dragged you towards doing that, and somehow you managed to give us the slip and not do it.

Well, you can see where that has got you now. Your H continues to work with OW, and dares to suggest going back to you while he continues to do that. The affair is nowhere near ending, but he has thrown you crumbs, and you are so desperate to have him back that you'll consider discussing having him home while he still works with her.

I'm so saddened by this.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 11:53 PM
I sent the version that addressed addiction and 12 step program. I had my IM send an updated one today that included leaving his job now that I know it was a work place affair and his volunteer place as well as no separate residences.

But yes when I went NC I sent that email to him before blocking his email. So now he has two plan B letters.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/13/16 11:56 PM
Oh heck no is he welcome back. No way. Desperate to not be divorced...yes...desperate to work thru stuff...yes...but back in my home...NO. I've never said that.

And yes I regret not sending the workplace an exposure email.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
And yes I regret not sending the workplace an exposure email.

You CAN rectify that.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:08 AM
I have no idea if it's still going on. I sent an exposure letter to OW sobriety sponsor and I think that is why he came unglued two weeks ago...but I'm not sure. We are so close to divorce now...I'm not sure it would work now anyway. I had asked you if I should send my exposure letters to her family...since they were not in the first exposure and you said not too since we were already so close to divorce and court dates.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:11 AM
He got the second IM sent plan B letter sent today...and he's no longer torn about what to do...that it's nothing but me being controlling. So no more IM info...plan B letter a fail x2 now.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I have no idea if it's still going on. I sent an exposure letter to OW sobriety sponsor and I think that is why he came unglued two weeks ago...but I'm not sure. We are so close to divorce now...I'm not sure it would work now anyway. I had asked you if I should send my exposure letters to her family...since they were not in the first exposure and you said not too since we were already so close to divorce and court dates.

Like I said, you CAN and should expose the affair at work. That is standing in the way of potential recovery.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:17 AM
ML...do you have a sample workplace exposure letter I can use?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:21 AM
here you go!

Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney--

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:36 AM
Do I give him 30 days notice?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:44 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I sent the version that addressed addiction and 12 step program.
I'm going to ask again, as clearly as I can:

Please post the exact Plan B letter that you sent him a few weeks ago.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:46 AM
Ok...I will...I actually sent 3...one ML wrote...stand by
Posted By: buildsherhouse Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
He got the second IM sent plan B letter sent today...and he's no longer torn about what to do...that it's nothing but me being controlling. So no more IM info...plan B letter a fail x2 now.


I'm a little bit confused by your expectations of the plan B letters. How did they fail?
They are for YOU. For you to set your boundaries and expectations going forward. They are not to somehow force him to change course or do anything. The letter simply informs him of what your expectations are and how you plan to act if he does meet them and how you plan to act if he does not meet them.
You get to decide if the letter is successful, because no matter his choice you have a solid plan to act on and move forward to being well.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Do I give him 30 days notice?

No, that is only for couples who are together and are working on their marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:51 AM
Is this the one you sent?

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Do I email him back and tell him no more emails from me? If he doesn't use my IM there will no more responses?

Send him a Plan B letter that goes something like this:

My Dearest __________,

This is a very hard letter to send, but I feel I must do it in order to protect myself.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan that resolves anger and substance abuse issues, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. My cousin, _________ has agreed to act as an intermediary on my behalf. If you want to communicate about any pertinent matters regarding finances or legal matters, it will have to be through her. Otherwise, I won't get the message because I have set up my email to delete your emails after I send this message.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship, and I simply cannot be in direct contact with you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to get help for your anger & substance abuse problems; permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be wiling to discuss our future together with you.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

With all my love,
(signed)
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:52 AM
This is today's plan B


Dear WH,

As I've said before...For reconciliation to happen I would need the following from you before making a commitment to reconcile:

> A full confession.
> A sincere, remorseful apology.
> Why you think this happened (name the problem --you've got to name it to claim it).
> A detailed recovery plan (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it).
> Proof you're working a 12-step program for addiction.
> Quitting (job) and (volunteer work) where your lapses in judgment and boundaries took place.
> No separate residences.
> Total transparency and access to all electronic devices.
> Letter we write together to all these other women ending all contact mailed to their residences.

The process of getting us to that point is up to you. If your hopes are the same as mine it will show in your actions and commitment to your own personal recovery and healing.

Until you tell IM that you're willing to commit to all of the above, there will be no direct contact with me. This is the only way back to me as it serves a purpose to affair proof our marriage going forward.

Faithfully,

Always
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 12:55 AM
What Plan B letter did you send back in January?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:02 AM
This was the original::::

Dear WH,

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that I have been mentally working on for weeks now. I have written this letter with the true love that only a wife can have for a husband. Please read every word I have written, for it is from the heart.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I'm sure this helped create a voice in our marriage that allowed your affair to happen. I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I want to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I feel that I have been learning ways to be the type of woman that I hope you would be proud to call your wife, as I have so many times felt pride in calling you my husband. I so want to be able to put the past behind us, and build a better life together for us and (son).

The past ten months have been a difficult passage of time for me, the most emotionally traumatic in my life. We seemed to start recovery in the beginning, only to slip and fail again. We have somehow misplaced our foundation of trust and respect as God commands. But lately God has given me a strength that I never knew I possessed. I have grown and matured more as a Christian than I have in my entire lifetime. Whereas in the past I endured the hurt and pain, I now see that it is soon to drain my love for you. Until you can cease with this elicit affair and truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our marriage, I will be having no communication with you, and I will not be seeing you. This is not to punish you, it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there would be nothing left.

I will be seeking counsel on how to best protect myself and (son), who has also been greatly affected by this.

I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. With God's help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.

I want to grow old with you. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and I continue to do so as I write this. When you find yourself ready and willing to truly and fully commit to our family, willing to work on a plan for our recovery, and go to counseling, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future.

God be with you, my love.

Your loving wife,

Always
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:03 AM
I sent the original on 12-31-2015 ....I copied it from ML who wrote most of it
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:07 AM
The one sent today fell flat...its controlling so WH is supposedly no longer torn
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:09 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I sent the original on 12-31-2015 ....I copied it from ML who wrote most of it
That is not true. She did not write anything at all like the letter you just quoted.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:10 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The one sent today fell flat...its controlling so WH is supposedly no longer torn
What did he say?

How do you know this?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:11 AM
I'll have to find it....I wrote one that she crafted...maybe it was the exposure template. Now that one...everyone loved but them. I'm prolly thinking of the exposure letter.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I sent the original on 12-31-2015 ....I copied it from ML who wrote most of it
On this thread, on 21st January you said that you had just sent a letter that MelodyLane drafted. What was in that letter?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:13 AM
He told my IM no way...he would never do any of those things...he's hell bent on the divorce...getting his own place...so that his personal security can never be threatened again. I own my house...when he would punch holes in doors or we would fight...I would tell him to get out of MY house.

I suppose that played on his early childhood abandonment issues.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:20 AM
In January, after much badgering from us, where we tried to get you to tell us what Plan B letter you sent in December, it finally became clear that you had never sent a Plan B letter. When she realised that, MelodyLane drafted this one for you:

Originally Posted by MelodyLane on 21st January
Send him a Plan B letter that goes something like this:

My Dearest __________,

This is a very hard letter to send, but I feel I must do it in order to protect myself.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan that resolves anger and substance abuse issues, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. My cousin, _________ has agreed to act as an intermediary on my behalf. If you want to communicate about any pertinent matters regarding finances or legal matters, it will have to be through her. Otherwise, I won't get the message because I have set up my email to delete your emails after I send this message.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship, and I simply cannot be in direct contact with you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to get help for your anger & substance abuse problems; permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be wiling to discuss our future together with you.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

With all my love,
(signed)
About 5 minutes after Mel drafted that letter for you, you stated,

Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I sent that exact letter a few weeks ago minus IM stuff.
Mel replied,

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I Just WROTE that letter so you couldn't have sent it! The whole point of the letter is to a) go into Plan B [which you have never done!!] and b) to give him the contact information about your intermediary. [which you have never done!]
About 20 minutes later, you said,

Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Ok....I just sent your letter Melody...and block his email!
But now you seem to be telling us that you did not send the letter that ML drafted for you.

Did you ever send the letter above, drafted by MelodyLane on 21st January?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
He told my IM no way...he would never do any of those things...he's hell bent on the divorce...getting his own place...so that his personal security can never be threatened again. I own my house...when he would punch holes in doors or we would fight...I would tell him to get out of MY house.

I suppose that played on his early childhood abandonment issues.
After what we've said to you AGAIN today about your IM not telling you stuff, she's just told you again.

This is hopeless. We can't seem to make you understand, so that you can make her understand. No matter what we tell you, she still tells you the crap he tells her.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:24 AM
Here is my exposure letter:::::


Dear friends of WH and OW

I am WH wife, Always and I love my husband. My only purpose for telling any of you this is one thing and one thing only, to save my marriage. I know many of you do not know me, some of you know of me, and others of you were at WH and my wedding in June 2013. I am writing you this message because it grieves me, but I believe all of WH and OW friends should be aware that they are having an affair. They have been having this affair since well before September 2015, according to the evidence. As some of you know, WH recently filed for divorce, on November 23, 2015, which shattered my heart to pieces. WH promised me from the time before we were even married up until he filed for divorce, that divorce was never going to be an option. To my shock, I was devastated to have discovered that the reason for the divorce is that WH has been carrying on an elicit sexual affair with OW, your friend and coworker. The purpose of the divorce is so that they can carry on this affair without my interference.

In February 2015, I had to obtain a restraining order for domestic violence in order to protect my son and myself. WH had punched two holes in doors in the house, and kicked in half, off the hinges another as well as other things. I do not tell any of you this to make WH look bad or put him down in any way, but as an explanation for why we separated earlier last year. During that time apart, we were to be working on our marriage and ourselves. We both failed miserably at working on our marriage.

Our faith is a huge part of both our lives and both the sin of divorce and adultery are not consistent with biblical teachings. As WH is now knee deep in an extramarital affair with someone not his wife, he is trying to rewrite the script of our marriage by saying things like I never loved him, I never wanted him, our marriage was not ordained by God, he made a mistake, he is divorced in his heart, etc. in an effort to rationalize and justify his actions. Simply put, none of those lies from Satan are true. I do love WH, I do want him as my husband, I expected we would grow old together and God did bless our marriage. We were two people, biblically free to marry and we married for love. Somewhere along the way, we were sidetracked.

I also want you all to know that I am praying for your friend OW, as it is my belief that she too is a victim of sorts. Affairs are born in secrecy, built on a foundation of lies and deception, as well as a fantasy and addiction. I have let go of my anger and forgiven OW because I realize that she must not value herself enough that she would choose to be involved with another womanļæ½s husband. I pray that she will realize her mistakes as she has been fooled. She has lost her dignity, her values, and she threw herself away for something that was not hers to begin with. It is my earnest prayer that she finds real love, forgiveness and healing for herself, as stealing, lying, cheating, hiding and committing adultery with a married man ļæ½ these things are not love. God did NOT bring OW another womanļæ½s husband, my husband, only Satan would do that.

WH refuses to end the affair. However, I want our marriage to recover from this affair. I love my husband. I love and want my husband, but he is in the grips of Satan. I pray for my husband and my hope is that he return to his biblical roots. If you have any influence on my husband, please do what you can to get him to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married to WH, but the affair must end.

As friends of WH and OW, I am asking that you use your influence with them, to persuade them to end the affair so that WH and I can begin to try to work on our marriage, to heal our marriage. It is my belief, that through Christ our Lord and Savior, that our marriage can be restored if one or both of them were to end the affair. Please support them in doing the right thing. Please support WH, myself, and our marriage.

I would appreciate your support and your prayers!

In Christ,

Always
Wife of WH

Mathew 18:15-17
15 ļæ½If your brother or sister sins go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ļæ½every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.ļæ½ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.ļæ½
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:25 AM
My pastors and counselors all loved this...and asked for copies to share with others in my situation. I realize it's long...but it's what I sent on FB and an amended one to his mom and niece.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:26 AM
Thank you for that, but I asked you for the Plan B letter you claimed to have sent on 21st January.

This is important. I am asking you for a reason, and it isn't for the good of my health. I would like to know exactly what your WH has and has not been told.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:27 AM
I sent the one in December...the one ML drafted...ill have to find hers...and one today.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My pastors and counselors all loved this...and asked for copies to share with others in my situation. I realize it's long...but it's what I sent on FB and an amended one to his mom and niece.
I have not asked you one word about exposure letters today. We have not been talking to you at all today about exposure letters. We have been asking about Plan B letters, because of what you posted here today about your WH saying he would consider reconciliation but he would not change his job.

I have been asking for over an hour for the Plan B letter you claimed to have sent on January 2016, and I do not know why you have not posted that yet.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I sent the one in December...the one ML drafted...ill have to find hers...and one today.
So look at my post a few up, the one with the quotes from 21st January. You said on that date that you had just sent the Plan B letter MelodyLane drafted 30 minutes earlier, specifically for you. Are you now saying you never sent that letter - the one ML drafted on 21st January?

This is important, and I would like a clear answer, please.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:38 AM
Dear WH,

Then we will have no contact. I will be blocking your email after this.

IM is your new contact for business related communication.

If you block her that is YOUR choice.

As for me...there is no more communication between us until you've ended your affairs with the other women and have agreed to no contact.

If you choose this life path...so be it..God nor I will stand in your way. For that reason...WE will have ZERO contact regarding any matter.

Until your affairs end and you agree to a plan that resolves anger and substance abuse issues (which includes affairs) I will avoid all contact with you. IM has agreed to act on both our behalf to communicate business related issues. If you choose not to let her act in that manner...I will not get your messages.

I ask that you respect my decision to cease all communication with you. You must know the unbearable suffering I have endured because of your affairs and I simply can't remain in contact with you under these circumstances.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage someday as I want to be able to meet each others emotional needs and avoid doing any more hurt to one another. We could build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there would never be a reason for us to be separated. I want you to be my best friend.

I cared and loved you when we were married and I continue to care for you and love you right up to today. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are carrying on extra marital sexual affairs outside of our wedding vows.

With all my love,

Always
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:39 AM
Sugar...I sent you all the MB letters I could find...some from templates and others from you guys.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:40 AM
I just posted the Jan 21st letter of ML...some ad lib but by and large her post
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:43 AM
The Jan 21st letter starts off that way because I had just told him about using an IM
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I just posted the Jan 21st letter of ML...some ad lib but by and large her post
You "just posted it" - you mean you just sent that to him now? But you did not send it on 21st January, as you said you did at the time.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:44 AM
No I sent one letter 12-31-15 the one on 1-21-16 and then an amended one today from my IM to him....so 3 total
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
The Jan 21st letter starts off that way because I had just told him about using an IM
You're being really obscure, just as you have been quite a lot on this thread. You are refusing to answer a simple question about whether, on 21st January, you sent your WH a letter that ML drafted for you that day, and which you said you sent 30 minutes after she drafted it.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No I sent one letter 12-31-15 the one on 1-21-16 and then an amended one today from my IM to him....so 3 total
"the one on 1-21-16 "

When did you send the one on 1-21-16?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:49 AM
Yes Sugar...I sent ML letter ON Jan 21st as I said I did. I just couldn't find it easily because I had sent it as part of a different email subject line about using an IM.

I sent one myself on Dec 31st

My IM sent one TODAY

So 3 total
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:51 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Yes Sugar...I sent ML letter ON Jan 21st as I said I did. I just couldn't find it easily because I had sent it as part of a different email subject line about using an IM.

I sent one myself on Dec 31st

My IM sent one TODAY

So 3 total
Now that we've established that, please tell me what you wrote in it.

Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:52 AM
I posted it for you already. ML message is posted. It's the letter posted after the exposure letter
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Dear WH,

Then we will have no contact. I will be blocking your email after this.

IM is your new contact for business related communication.

If you block her that is YOUR choice.

As for me...there is no more communication between us until you've ended your affairs with the other women and have agreed to no contact.

If you choose this life path...so be it..God nor I will stand in your way. For that reason...WE will have ZERO contact regarding any matter.

Until your affairs end and you agree to a plan that resolves anger and substance abuse issues (which includes affairs) I will avoid all contact with you. IM has agreed to act on both our behalf to communicate business related issues. If you choose not to let her act in that manner...I will not get your messages.

I ask that you respect my decision to cease all communication with you. You must know the unbearable suffering I have endured because of your affairs and I simply can't remain in contact with you under these circumstances.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage someday as I want to be able to meet each others emotional needs and avoid doing any more hurt to one another. We could build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there would never be a reason for us to be separated. I want you to be my best friend.

I cared and loved you when we were married and I continue to care for you and love you right up to today. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are carrying on extra marital sexual affairs outside of our wedding vows.

With all my love,

Always
When was this letter sent?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I posted it for you already. ML message is posted.
Please quote it for me. I have completely lost track, and this is important.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:55 AM
That letter was ML and was sent on 1-21-16
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
That letter was ML and was sent on 1-21-16
Please quote exactly what you wrote.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Dear WH,

Then we will have no contact. I will be blocking your email after this.

IM is your new contact for business related communication.

If you block her that is YOUR choice.

As for me...there is no more communication between us until you've ended your affairs with the other women and have agreed to no contact.

If you choose this life path...so be it..God nor I will stand in your way. For that reason...WE will have ZERO contact regarding any matter.

Until your affairs end and you agree to a plan that resolves anger and substance abuse issues (which includes affairs) I will avoid all contact with you. IM has agreed to act on both our behalf to communicate business related issues. If you choose not to let her act in that manner...I will not get your messages.

I ask that you respect my decision to cease all communication with you. You must know the unbearable suffering I have endured because of your affairs and I simply can't remain in contact with you under these circumstances.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage someday as I want to be able to meet each others emotional needs and avoid doing any more hurt to one another. We could build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there would never be a reason for us to be separated. I want you to be my best friend.

I cared and loved you when we were married and I continue to care for you and love you right up to today. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are carrying on extra marital sexual affairs outside of our wedding vows.

With all my love,

Always
When was this letter sent?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 01:59 AM
I don't quote well...sorry...but that was sent 1-21-16
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I don't quote well...sorry...but that was sent 1-21-16
I think I finally understand. I'm sorry to have badgered you endlessly about this, but I wanted to see whether you had sent a Plan B letter that made it clear that you would only consider talking to him about reconciliation once certain conditions were met.

You altered the letter that MelodyLane prepared on January 21st, which is a shame because hers was worded much more clearly and strongly. Her letter made it much clearer that he would not get any messages through to you unless it was a message stating that he was wiling to meet your conditions. Nonetheless, you did put the conditions in there, so he does know about them.

I wish that you had not fired off those additional letters today, because they make it sound as if you are negotiating. You have also significantly altered the wording of the letter that you sent on the 21st, which is a bad idea. I don't like the wording of your letters sent today, but more than that, your H needs to be met with the exact same message each time he tries his crap on you - and it is your IM who should send that message, NOT YOU. He must not know that his thoughts are getting through to you. You have told him that your IM will block all messages and only let urgent ones through, and that is what he should experience - not YOU sending letters when he sends nonsense proposals to your IM. Your replying to him only shows him that when you say "your messages will not reach me", you are lying - because they DO reach you. They just did, because you just replied. He is never going to take it seriously that you mean what you say about having nothing to do with him unless he meets your conditions.

So, to clarify what needs to happen now:

Send no more communications to your WH, EVER.

Send your IM a copy of ML's 21st January Plan B letter.

Tell her that she is not to communicate ANYTHING from him except a desire to reconcile, on the terms stated in that letter. No thoughts, no suggestions, no queries about it, nothing; you don't want to hear it. She is only to tell you the day he gets on bended knee to her and begs her to tell you that he has fully met the terms of your Plan B letter.

If he sends messages that are not about reconciliation to her, she should say nothing about them to you.

If he sends messages like today's saying he will think about reconciling, but only under certain conditions...

...she is to re-send your Plan B letter with a message that his message will not be passed on, and that the only message that will be passed on will be the one where he agrees to meet ALL the conditions in the Plan B letter.

She is not to tell you about any of this contact. She is not to tell you that she rejected it, and she is not to tell you that she re-sent the Plan B letter. She is not to tell you ANYTHING until the day he wants to get on bended knee and meet your conditions.

Is that clear? Can we get you into Plan B, having spent HOURS trying to get you there, since December?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 02:29 AM
So...to be clear...have my IM send ML original letter with no changes today...again...
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 02:36 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
So...to be clear...have my IM send ML original letter with no changes today...again...
NOOO. No more letters today. In my message above I did not say anything about anyone sending letters today.

You've sent additional letters today, which you should not have done, but let that stand. It does not make sense for him to get even more letters. He will be LOVING the attention, and laughing at you for not being able to get your story straight.

1. You send ML's original 21st January letter to your IM.

2. Tell her that she sends that letter to him if he makes any more noises about reconciliation, unless it is proper, bended knee, all-conditions-met reconciliation.

3. Tell her that you do not want to hear anything else that he says, ever.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 02:37 AM
Got it!
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 07:37 PM
How is the exposure to the employer coming along? Is it coming along?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 09:33 PM
I'm working on moving the evidence from my iPad to my laptop so I can attach it all in one email to HR.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/14/16 11:08 PM
What evidence do you want to send? I would be careful with that and check with this board before sending anything other than the letter/email.

Use the template, just fill in the blanks. If they contact you with questions, you can send proof if it is needed.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
here you go!

Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney--

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 12:01 AM
Oh...I thought I needed to send evidence. Well that makes it easier.

Do I give a 30 day notice to WH first or just send it?
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Do I give a 30 day notice to WH first or just send it?

This was answered:

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Do I give him 30 days notice?

No, that is only for couples who are together and are working on their marriage.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 12:19 AM
Think about it:
You are in Plan B and he is not pursuing reconciliation with you. A notice would just read as blackmail to your WH.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 12:22 AM
I missed that question being answered in all my posts yday with SC! Thanks. Will get going on this email.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 12:29 AM
Ok...are you guys sure now is the time? My letter is ready...but I'm gonna be divorced in less than a month. He still hasn't refi'd the truck yet to my knowledge as I've not signed anything yet. He will lose his job just before we sign divorce papers...seems vindictive at this point in the game. If you think I should still send it I will...but...
Posted By: apples123 Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 12:32 AM
Send it. The company has a right to know how their resources are being used.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 06:23 AM
Did you change much or did you copy/paste and added their names? If you made changes, can you post the letter here before sending?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 01:14 PM
I made no changes. Last time I changed something I was scolded...so it's copy paste add names sent last night. No response this morning. I sent to head of HR and head over his dept...I have no idea who their individual bosses are.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 01:31 PM
Am I supposed to hear back?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Am I supposed to hear back?

I did not hear anything back from my wife's boss.

The VP of HR emailed me back "We will look into it"

the HR of her division emailed me back "we will investigate further"

The HR of OM's division emailed me back "We would appreciate if you sent no further emails - we are looking into circumstances you brought to our attention."

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Am I supposed to hear back?

I did not hear anything back from my wife's boss.

The VP of HR emailed me back "We will look into it"

the HR of her division emailed me back "we will investigate further"

The HR of OM's division emailed me back "We would appreciate if you sent no further emails - we are looking into circumstances you brought to our attention."

The HR from his division specifically said:
"Thank you for bringing the concerns to our attention. At this time we have taken all actions deemed necessary. We do request that you cease sending any other employee any further correspondence. Should you have any questions please direct all inquiries to me."

I responded with this (and I cc'd OM on it):
"Thank you for your email. I wanted to write my wife a note and ask her again to end her affair OM but now that I have been asked to cease communications with all company employees and instead communicate just with you, I guess you are saying you wish to be the go between my wife and I. I suppose running interference on behalf of my wife would be consistent with a company that feels it has done "all actions deemed necessary" while, it appears, continuing to enable my wife and OM to continue their adulterous relationship.

I somehow doubt your company really wants to publicly try to prevent a husband from communicating with his wife or go to bat for an interloping boy trying to interfere in someone's marital relationship. That said, I do understand that you are just the messenger assigned to "manage" me and using typical human resource cover up speak. However, out of respect for your request I'll probably cease and desist for a little bit here hoping OM comes to his senses quickly enough."



FYI - this email led immediately to my wife filing a TRO violation.

Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 02:34 PM
Wow. WC that is terrible. I have no idea how this will play out...but I hope it doesn't come to a TRO...SCARY!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Wow. WC that is terrible. I have no idea how this will play out...but I hope it doesn't come to a TRO...SCARY!

The TRO violation date is set for this Friday - it really is not that big of a deal I have been told.

My lawyer has said he is almost certain it will be thrown out.

Some of my friends have told me that any lawyer that agrees to file a motion for a TRO violation is a deadbeat and trying to steal my wife's money - because they also know it will probably get thrown out.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Wow. WC that is terrible. I have no idea how this will play out...but I hope it doesn't come to a TRO...SCARY!

IN my state - a Temporary Re staining Order (TRO) is issued with every divorce motion.

IT was not like my WW went and got a RO on me.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 02:49 PM
I see. Still scary.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 03/15/16 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
IN my state - a Temporary Re staining Order (TRO) is issued with every divorce motion.

IT was not like my WW went and got a RO on me.

On our state form, there are a bunch of boxes to check for TRO and various nasty tricks. However, just because you or your lawyer check the boxes, doesn't mean it's going to be granted by the judge. According to my L, it is very difficult to get one to stick unless you have a prior history of domestic violence or made specific threats that can be documented.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 03/16/16 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I made no changes. Last time I changed something I was scolded...so it's copy paste add names sent last night. No response this morning. I sent to head of HR and head over his dept...I have no idea who their individual bosses are.
Scolded? Really?

I told you to expose to the workplace when you first got here and you refused. Posters on your thread have only been giving you MB advice. When you don't listen or answer questions it becomes frustrating when we are trying to help you.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/16/16 11:55 PM
Not you...lol....earlier this week Sugar wanted to see my letters so I posted them...she didn't like some of my changes...so this letter...did NOT get changed! No response from their company either...which is disconcerting.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 03/17/16 12:04 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Not you...lol....earlier this week Sugar wanted to see my letters so I posted them...she didn't like some of my changes...so this letter...did NOT get changed! No response from their company either...which is disconcerting.
You do see why SugarCane was asking that, correct? And why she stayed on you about it, correct?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/17/16 12:05 AM
Yes..she explained it to me.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 03/17/16 12:11 AM
How do you know if they for sure got the letter?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/17/16 12:18 AM
I don't. I emailed the director of HR and who I think is the boss of their division.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Devastated - 03/17/16 10:21 AM
Work exposure is not just HR director and local boss. Exposure letters must go to the CEO/owner and the board of directors. You do not want the local boss to try to bury this exposure.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 03:05 AM
So today was moving day for WH. He came and got his things without incident.

I was not here. My father and brother were here. He showed up alone to move HEAVY items into the truck. Thank goodness my brother was here to help...would've been darn near impossible otherwise.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 03:45 PM
I know this is very sad for you, but you are well rid of him, always.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:14 PM
My IM informed me just now that my WH has blocked her phone number and will no longer "allow" her to act as IM...that I can just put my big girl panties on and either deal with WH or a judge. She tried to text him back and got an error message. Now what? I will NOT be unblocking my email. I will not play the games. I will take the judge given the choices.

NC is no NC.

And I've done good about that since we last posted about it a couple weeks ago. So has my IM.

So now what? Wait til court?

Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:18 PM
He was thankful for IMs all this time...most issues related to the divorce are resolved...but not all...why all of a sudden is the IM no Bueno? Is he mad I wasn't there yesterday for his moving? Did the act of moving out his stuff make it real all of a sudden? What gives..why the control and manipulation now...so close to the end?
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:27 PM
Yes to all of the above.
NC is NC.
Your IM doesn't need to contact him. If he needs something he can contact HER.
Continue to ignore him.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
My IM informed me just now that my WH has blocked her phone number and will no longer "allow" her to act as IM...that I can just put my big girl panties on and either deal with WH or a judge. She tried to text him back and got an error message. Now what? I will NOT be unblocking my email. I will not play the games. I will take the judge given the choices.
"Given the choices" - by whom? Is he in a position to give you choices? I don't think so.

"Now what" is that you continue Plan B. You do not need to "deal with" him. You maintain the status quo, whereby the only way he can get an urgent message to you is via your intermediary.

You were told over and over, weeks ago, to change your email and phone number.

Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:35 PM
No need to change my personal email. My email provider does block email. His cell is blocked and has been since last August. My house phone...he never calls...but I think today I will call to change it...it's only used for Internet anyway.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
He was thankful for IMs all this time...most issues related to the divorce are resolved...but not all...why all of a sudden is the IM no Bueno? Is he mad I wasn't there yesterday for his moving? Did the act of moving out his stuff make it real all of a sudden? What gives..why the control and manipulation now...so close to the end?
You're hoping that his moving has indeed made it all real, and that he is suddenly doubting that he can go through with it. You are hoping that he has fired your IM because he wants to talk to you directly, because he is undergoing some sort of epiphany and wants you back.

Just cut it out, always. That is not what is happening. This is your fantasy scenario, but it is not reality. If your H wanted to go back to you, he knows what conditions he has to meet, and how to contact the IM about that.

Posting these questions (about why he is doing this) was just another way of blogging about your H, and getting people to indulge you and talk to you about him. You need to stop it. Your husband is a drug addicted, alcoholic, violent adulterer and you need to get rid of him in your mind. Plan B is a state of mind.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
No need to change my personal email. My email provider does block email. His cell is blocked and has been since last August.
What are you going to do when he contacts you from another source? You do know that is coming one day, don't you?

Why are you so stubborn at taking our advice?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:41 PM
Because I've had my email and cell number for over a decade...lol...it would be a monumental task to redo all bills...contacts...etc related to my cell and email. Ugh. No I didn't think he would try another way...he's not been smart about anything to this point...so that never crossed my mind that he'd try it another way.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:53 PM
Quote
it would be a monumental task to redo all bills...contacts...etc related to my cell and email.
Yet, people do it everyday.

Quote
No I didn't think he would try another way...he's not been smart about anything to this point...so that never crossed my mind that he'd try it another way.
He WILL, and your recovery will be set back to square one. Everything you accomplished will come crashing down.

Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 05:56 PM
Ugh...ok
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Because I've had my email and cell number for over a decade...lol...it would be a monumental task to redo all bills...contacts...etc related to my cell and email. Ugh. No I didn't think he would try another way...he's not been smart about anything to this point...so that never crossed my mind that he'd try it another way.
I have had to open a new bank account because someone transferred 1ct every month. It was a lot of hassle to change everything, but I wasn't bothered by the controlling person anymore. That was his last means of control over me, I already had given up my motorbike to get rid of this person. Best loss ever.

If it is that important to you, you don't need to delete your account or old phone number, let them sleep for a year and use the new number and email for the next year. Send al relevant contacts your new contact info and DO NOT look at the old mail and phone for a year (after that, you will benefit from plan B so much and probably prefer to keep using your new mail and phone nr).
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 08:09 PM
That is a great idea...thx...that I can do.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 09:13 PM
I know how dfficult it was for me to let go (different situation, love of my life forgot to tell me he was married, I found out). After the initial shock, it took me four years to fall out of love, even though we never saw eachother again. Memories kept crawling back because of triggers. Lots of silly things at my home were triggers, because he helped me move in here. Also, if I had gotten rid of my car sooner, I would have gotten over him sooner. I clung to that car. When my tools (1000$ worth) were stolen, I was most sad about a little stubborn bolt that was in my toolbox, he helped me loosen it to fix my ride.

I know how tempting it is to keep all those little memories and triggers, "my precious". I also know you need to get rid of them (for now anyway) as long he is in this state of mind. You need a watertight plan B. Don't be like me, time is precious.

So don't forget to hand over the old phone to your IM and let her change the password to your email, so you won't be tempted wink
She can check your email weekly to see if you forgot important contacts. After you send everyone relevant your new number, leave a voicemail on your old phone that from now on, this number will not be answered.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 09:13 PM
Sooooo...I called the phone company. My WH set up phone line so HE has to contact them to disconnect. Nor will they set acct up in my name for same residence. WH has blocked my IM phone. What can I do now?
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 09:16 PM
This is the landline you only use it for internet, right? Keep using the intenet, unplug the phone, so it will not ring anytime soon.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 09:20 PM
Ok. My dad said let it go for the time being...it's not worth pushing right now in WH current state of mind.

It's a landline...with Internet. I use primarily for Internet. But my son uses phone as his cell is taken away at moment...lol...punishment. Anywho...grrrrrr
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
WH has blocked my IM phone.
This is not your problem! It is not your job to find a way for your H to contact you! You have given him a route for urgent contact. He can either use it, or not contact you ever.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Ok. My dad said let it go for the time being...it's not worth pushing right now in WH current state of mind.
Let what go? (Which change are you talking about here?) And what does your H's state of mind have to do with anything?
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 09:53 PM
I cannot change my home phone into MY name...or change the phone number because my WH is the primary and I'm an authorized user. So no changes can be done there.

My WH is in whatever state of mind due to his insistence that he have contact with me and me alone. So my my dad said let this issue go for the time being.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 10:04 PM
In plan B, you don't think of your husband. You need a firewall to protect yourself from him. Don't talk about him with your father.

It is your state of mind that is important.

There is no need for him to talk to you directly, if he wants to talk buisiness he can call the IM. If he wants to work on the marriage, he knows your terms and he can contact IM. There is NO NEED for him to talk to you directly.

Leave the phone contract be, unplug the phone. Your son will not die without it.

PLAN B! Do yourself a favour and read about plan B again, because your umbrella has holes in it and rain is pooring through.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 10:05 PM
Ok
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 10:10 PM
Did you have a good weekend with activities? Do you have activities planned for next weekend? Take good care of yourself.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/21/16 10:18 PM
I have been doing more of that these days...getting out...
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: Devastated - 03/22/16 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I have been doing more of that these days...getting out...

I used to take bubble baths!

Lots of bubble baths....sometimes more than one a day. It helped calm me, soothe me, and indulge me....I felt like *I* was "important" and special!

Lots of candles and my favorite music in the background.

Take good care of YOU now. Indulge yourself in "feel good" activities, and get your mind on YOU and making YOU feel stronger, healthier, happier. This is your time.

Bring more peace into your world. Block out the other stuff. Don't dwell on it.
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: Devastated - 03/22/16 02:02 PM
I'm trying! Thx!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Devastated - 05/08/16 08:35 AM
How are things?
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