Hello everyone, I would really appreciate any input on my situation. My husband was involved in a several month affair with another woman while being deployed overseas and the woman could be pregnant. We have been married for more than a decade and this is the first time he has cheated although he has been on several deployments already. I suspected he was cheating and I pressed him for information and he confessed about the affair. Ever since I found out, my husband told his affair partner that I know everything and they stopped communicating. The other woman knew he was married throughout the affair but they continued to meet. After having unprotected sex, my husband told her to take a pill but she told him later she had not. She told him he should not feel any obligation for the child if she were pregnant. Right now he is not sure if she is pregnant or not. He is trying to get a hold of her but she is not replying. The problem is when she finds out she might not even tell him. She is foreign so she will not be coming back to the US. My husband is coming back from deployment in a month. He is stationed in a different state and he is expecting me to drive there to bring some necessities for him. Honestly, I do not feel like I should do that as he does not deserve it. For the past two years, one of which is his deployment, we have been separated because we live and work in different stated but we usually see each other at least every two months when he is not deployed. I am not sure what too do. He says she makes him feel like she is the most important thing to him and that he never felt this way about me so he thinks that I might be better off without him. Up to this deployment he has always believed in us and never questioned being married to me. Thanks for any input.

Welcome to MB and I'm sorry for your pain.

Is the OW married or in a relationship?

Who have you exposed this to?

Here please read this and there's a part about exposing in the military.
Exposure 101

[/quote]
Welcome to MB and I'm sorry for your pain.

Is the OW married or in a relationship?

Who have you exposed this to? [/quote]

She is not married. I have told a couple of my friends. No one else. I was thinking about telling my husband's family and his best friend.

Did you read the exposure thread? Exposing to the IG? Also, you need to expose on OW's side.

I told his mom, and I will tell my family. He has only one close friend so I don't have anyone else to expose this to. His friend also cheated on his wife with kids so how likely is it that he will help? I cannot do anything about the other woman's side because I do not know anything about her.

Did you read the exposure thread? The part about exposing to the military?

Yes, I did read the thread but I do not think I should expose it to the military. In this website, I read somewhere that typically exposure at the workplace is not recommended.

Like this website? Because I have only seen the opposite here. unless the circumstance is pretty unique, workplace exposure is generally recommended.

A couple typos - but this looks like the appropriate information from Exposure 101 regarding military. I have not been in this community for a super long time, some one will direct you in the right direction.

I really do not want to go this route.

Dr. Harley very much does recommend exposure to the employer, especially in the military. Did you read the Exposure 101 thread?

That is not a problem. The problem here is that he is still chasing his affair partner. He should change his contact information so she can never reach him.

needinput, I just read your post and there are many, many problems here. The most critical problem is that you don't live together. You can't possibly sustain a marriage that way and you will never recover unless you can live together 24/7. Can you remedy that situation?

Secondly, he should commit to never communicating with the OW again. Will he do this? If not, you should plan to separate from him.

You have so many obstacles here that it is hard to know where to begin. But the first steps have to be that he never communicates with the OW again and that he finds a way to move back home.

Exposure to the military is one of the steps that might help you the most. Typically, when the military gets involved, they will help the marriage and ensure the affair ends. You have so much going against you that you really need their help.

Do you have children?

You and your husband should cease discussion of this possible child.

Do not question this woman about it again.

If your husband pursues this and brings about a situation in which his paternity is established, your marriage will be over.

How can I make him stop communicating with her? He still has 1 month left on his deployment. I told him to stop communicating with her and he told me he did but I do not believe him.

No, we do not have any children.

If he is the one chasing his affair partner why would I think that he will change his contact information? He has one month left on the tour at which point he will be separated from her. They will be in two different countries. At this point, he needs to face reality. I can only ask him to end contact with her, but will he? He is stationed in a different state, so he cannot move to live with me. My situation is such after he comes back from deployment I can only travel and see him may be on the weekend 2x month or if I take vacation time. I will be able to go live with him 24/7 after about a year. What would the military do? I do not want him to go to jail.

I do not know anything about this woman, I have no contact with her. I have asked my husband about it not her.

I am so hurt right now that I do not even want to communicate with him. There is nothing now to talk about. I don't know if I should try to keep contact with him or not or just let him contact me whenever he feels like. I was supposed to be there when he gets back - all families will be there for their soldiers when they get back from deployment. Now, he does not deserve it. I am questioning whether I should go there or not. He expects me to be there because I need to help him with finding a place to live, bringing some necessities, etc. The soldiers have a few days only to take care of essential things and go back to work. I don't know what to do. With regard to exposure to the military, I think I should probably wait until he comes back and see if he will initiate ending contact with this woman. If not, then I should expose to the military. The woman he is involved with is not in the military. She is a woman who lives in the country he is deployed to.

Okay - but you have missed my point.

HE should not raise this issue with her (quite apart from the fact that he should not be in contact with her - but we know that he is).

He must shut the door on any further discussion of his paternity, because if paternity is established, your marriage is over. It might take a while to die, but when OW insists on the right of her child to have a father, and when he decides to "do the right thing" and be that father, while insisting to you that he only interacts with the child and not her, he will still be in a relationship with her, and his relationship with her is an affair.

If she forces a paternity action on him (if she can do that from abroad), he should only comply with a court order for any paternity test, and after that, with a court order for child support. He must not do anything on a voluntary basis. He must never see the child if he wants to stay married to you (and you to him).

I suspect that they are in contact and she is still telling him he is the father of her child. You need to find out who she is and how they are contacting each other - and you won't do that by asking him. Please be smart about this.

If you don't find out who she is and put a stop to their contact, you will wake up one day and find that he has left you for his OW and child. You do not have any children. That makes you more at risk of his leaving you.

You report it to the IG. They will make him end contact.

The military will make sure his affair ends and they can help you put back together your marriage. Often, they will give the cheater an early out or help them reconcile with their spouse.

You are not ever going to be able to recover your marriage if you don't live together. You need to accept that reality and suggest that he either leaves the military or finds a way to be together every day.

No, you should not wait.

When you say "early out" what do you mean? His contract ends in less than 2 years and he is planning to get out.

It would be impossible for me to find out who she is. He told me how they communicate - using a messenger and he told me which one - but it would be impossible for me to find out who she is because there are so many users. I do not know his passwords or even usernames.

Have you checked online phone records?

What I mean is that the military authorties might let him out early to go home and save his marriage. But they need to know what is going on from you.

You can ask your husband for her name. Additionally, the military can find out by chekcing his email and his cell records.

I have asked him about her name and he does not tell me. He told me knowing any information about her serves no purpose and there is no reason why I should know. If I proceed with the military, how fast can something be done, do you have any idea?

So he is protecting his mistress at your expense. You should not accept that.


In our experience, it usually happens pretty fast.

You have a right to know everything about her since this affects your life. For him to withhold this vital information is cruel and manipulative. He doesn't want to tell you because his affair is still active and he wants to protect his OW.

He got another phone overseas so I have no access to phone records.

I know I do have the right to know and that's what I keep telling him. He has disclosed to me affair details such as where she is from, how long they have seen each other, where they used to see each other, even what messenger they are using to talk, but when I ask him for her email or name or where she works he refuses to tell me.

The IG can find out and tell you. Like I said, your husbands affair is active and he is protecting his OW. But when the military investigates they can find out.

Also, I would not see him again unless he gives you all the facts. One of the first steps of recovery is telling you the truth. Since he refuses to do that, you won't recover anyway. You can't save a marriage based on a lie.

My husband said he is still in contact with her through media at this point because soldiers are not allowed to get out of the base. He told me they have talked twice for the past one week since I found out he had an affair. He said he has to find out whether she is pregnant or not. She is not telling him at this point. I demanded that he stops any communication with her and not to even talk about the pregnancy with her. He said that he has to know whether she is pregnant or not to have a piece of mind. He said he might have to see her and ask her to take a pregnancy test to confirm if she is pregnant because this is very important to him. He found out that I have told his mom, best friend, and my friends about the affair and got mad.

It is imperative that you report all this to the IG and all of your friends and family. [who don't know] Once you do that, you should plan on separating from him completely and going into a dark Plan B.

You also need to quickly read Surviving an Affair so you can understand the plans. You can download it on your computer from amazon.

Should they contact him so he is made aware that they know or should I just let him know that I have told them? He know of some people that know about his affair but not all - for example, he does not know that my family knows. Should my family contact him?

YEs, that would be a great idea for your family and friends to contact him directly. Please read through the exposure thread in my signature so you can explain this correctly to your friends and family.

HOWEVER, the most important step is for you to expose this affair to the military so they can stop it. When you do this, I would ask them to release your husband early so he can come home and work on your marriage. Where do you stand there?

You can also speak to the local chaplain and ask for his guidance. They need to know that your husband is still lying to you about the identity of the OW. You need to know her name and everything.

He initially used to call, after I found out about the affair he stopped calling and now is rarely emailing. This makes me mad, he should be the one trying to fix his mess. It seems to me that he is willingly letting things get worse.

Can you please respond to my posts?

He is back from deployment. He is still communicating with the AP. He is planning to divorce me and is taking actions to separate accounts and bills. He has told his AP that he will be marrying her. He said he wants to be with her and will not stop communicating with her. Do I need to pay anything for reporting to the IG? Would such action cause my WS to continue with the divorce? How can I make this thread available to members only so it is not available through online search?

No it doesn't cost anything.


When will you be exposing?

Your actions of keeping his secret is leading to a divorce. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret has led you to this bad place. We gave you the advice to expose the affair. Did you take it? If you don't take the advice, there is really nothing we can do.

I have exposed the affair to family members and friends a month ago as soon as I found out. Also, people in his military unit know that he cheated. His roommate is trying to talk sense to him. The only thing I have not done is call the IG. My actions are not leading to a divorce, his actions are.

In the thread you posted, it says that even if absolute proof is not found the commander will stop further contact. I doubt that. No one will be checking his emails or text messages to make sure he is not communicating with her. This is in violation of his privacy. He can easily communicate with her once he gets off work. She is not a military member and is not even in the US.

There is not much we can do if you won't expose to the IG. Is there a reason why you havent done this? Its hard to help someone when they don't follow the advice.

Who cares? None of his peers have authority to stop the affair. In order to be impactful, the affair needs to be exposed to the IG. You have a very small chance to save this so I am not understanding why you would pass up such a good opportunity? You can't afford to skip steps.

I disagree. Keeping it a secret from the military authorities has greatly impeded your chances of saving this. You became an accessory to the crime by helping him hide it from military authorties. They could have stepped in and stopped this.

Telling his peers was worthless because they cannot stop him. The IG could stop him.

From one military wife to another, YES, YOU NOT TELLING HIS SUPERVISORS IS LEADING TO THIS. Exposure to my husband's supervisors was my single HUGEST weapon in killing my husbands affair. We are 2 years into the recovery process and doing amazing. Exposure to his supervisors and IG is HUGE.

Woundednotbroken, would you please send me a link to your thread. I would like to get familiar with your situation.

Also, MelodyLane could you please send me a link to your thread?

The reason I have not exposed to the IG is because I thought that this will not be so effective. Ok, they can monitor his military emails but when he gets off work who will monitor his personal cell phone calls, messages, and email. I really do not get it. How will he be forced to have no contact? I mean the military has to invade his privacy. I really need more specific information to understand how this exposure to the IG works.

Also, the fact that he is stationed in a different state and we cannot see each other a minimum of 15-20 hour each week can possibly hinder the recovery process (but the way I see it is it can help with plan B).

Update: He is back from deployment. He is stationed in another state. He told me he will be coming to see me soon and he will be separating accounts and bills, put my name on the car title and remove his name. He told me that he loves me and I am important to him and wants to have me in his life but he wants to be with the AP and marry her and therefore divorce me. He said he wants to make sure I am taken care of before he divorces. He thinks I have a lot going on for me, that I deserve better than him, and expects me to accept his decision. Btw, she is involved with prostitution and already has a child with someone else and the child lives with her parents in her country. She lives overseas. He told me that he feels that he need to help her. He also said that he can have an easier marriage with me and his marriage to her will be much harder but nonetheless he wants to be with her. He said I am a good wife, an amazing woman, but he likes her personality and he thinks we married young and now that he is older he realizes what he wants in a person. He also said that I am a stronger person than her and that I will be able to handle this situation much better. Is this just talk coming from a wayward spouse in affair fog or is there something else in addition to it? He has always told me that he loves me, he is lucky to have me, never talked about divorce and many people have told me in the past that they could see it in his actions how much he loves me.

I don't have a thread, but you can click on my link and go back and read all my posts. However, that time would be better spent following the program and taking steps to save your marriage. Did you want to try and do that?


The military will ORDER him to end his affair and they will monitor his contacts. So, you need to get this done PRONTO.

Let us know when you have completed this exposure and we can help you with next steps.

You know that reporting to the IG will be effective. You fear it will be too effective - that he will suffer repercussions that go beyond the limited ones you want, and cause you problems as well. You figure this can be handled "in the family".

Right?

Well, it won't work, and you are making yourself an accessory to the crime against his employer.

I have been reading about plan A and plan B. Since my husband is stationed in a different state and talking about a divorce a week after coming back from deployment, I am not sure I can even implement plan A. It is definitely easier to implement plan B but I have read that I should implement it after following plan A for awhile (6 months or so). What is your suggestion?

Did you finish exposure?

No that is for BHs. BWs should only do Plan A for 3 weeks max and then go to Plan B.

When will you be exposing to the IG?? That should be your priority. Have you exposed to OW's side yet?

Our suggestion is to EXPOSE the affair. THAT is Plan A.

Not yet, I plan to do it next week. I don't think they work on the weekend.

The OW apparently works as a prostitute in one of the bars outside a military base my husband was stationed at overseas. I was told she works at either of two bars but I do not have any other information about her. I just know her club name, which is not her real name. I cannot find any additional information about her.

[quote=BrainHurts]
No that is for BHs. BWs should only do Plan A for 3 weeks max and then go to Plan B. [quote]

I did not even do Plan A for 3 weeks. He came back from deployment last week and I only saw him for 2 days. I drove 8 hours because I had to bring his stuff to him that he left before e deployed. I demanded no contact, and he said he will not stop communicating with her. He was messaging her right in front of me and on the third time, I just packed my bags and left. Since then, I do not communicate with him at all. He called once a couple of days ago to say he wants to divorce me, that he will be coming to my location to take care of business (remove his name from all accounts). I get furious when he talks to me this way so I prefer not to be in contact with him at all.

"How do you submit a complaint with the IG? A complaint, allegation, and/or request for assistance can be presented to the IG in person, by telephone, fax, or regular mail.

In order to protect your confidentiality, we strongly discourage contacting the IG via e-mail because of concerns for personal security and to maintain your privacy."

Something above does not make sense to me. If there is concern for personal safety, then if I called the IG and I provided proof that my husband cheated, I would have to show an email in which he confesses. That means I would give away my email and they will know I am his wife. Is there anyone on the forum who has gone through this process that can give me an idea how all this works and make it clear to me. Thanks.

They are not saying you should not tell them who your husband is and that you are his wife. If you make a complaint about someone, of course you'll need to identify him, and if you do it in person, that of course you'll be identifying yourself. That is not what they are saying.

They are saying that emails can be intercepted. Someone else could read an email intended for the IG only, and then could possible even stop it from reaching the IG, or they could blab to the person being complained about, or they could retaliate against you. They are trying to stop anything like that from happening.

If you phone or go there in person, you and the IG will be able to speak in confidence. That is all they are saying - email communication is unsafe in large organisations.

Thanks, SugarCane.

Could anyone who has been through this please tell me what is the most common approach for the IG to handle such situation? I understand, direct order for no contact. What else? Also, I am now starting to think whether I should expose next week as I initially planned or wait until my husband comes home in three weeks (he will be home for about two weeks)and expose after he leaves. I am thinking he can possibly become violent or may not even come home. I feel like since we have been separated for so long, I need to be able to spend some time with him. Otherwise, I risk not seeing him at all which is really bad for the relationship as well.

You're not necessarily going to get the kind of poster you want, to be online and reading your thread, at this hour on a Saturday night. You will have to do the reading yourself.

Go to the exposure link in MelodyLane's signature - she posted to you above. A few posts into that thread is a post from Mortarman telling you the steps to take.

Then, read some of the many threads in this forum. They will show you other people's experiences.

The poster woundednotbroken posted to you above. Her name is a link. Click it, then go to "view posts", then "topics created", and read whichever thread deals with her own story - she told you that she has been through this, exposed to the IG, and they are in recovery.

In the same way, trace the post of anyone you come across on the threads here, who says that dealt with a military affair.

You posted here very sporadically, and then disappeared for a while. If you want help, you will need to stick around. I also suggest that you click "notify" and ask a moderator to move this thread to the forum Surviving an Affair, where it will get more responses.

Not exposing the affair is even worse for your relationship. You should stop looking for excuses to put this off. If you will expose now and your husband is ordered to end his affair, he may be out of the fog in 3 weeks. I give this very little hope because you have allowed it to thrive so long, but this is your best hope. The longer you drag this out, the harder it will be to save it.

needinput, you are going to have to buck up here and start doing some work. This is a very entrenched affair and dragging your feet is not helping your situation.

Ok, thanks. I read the exposure thread MelodyLane posted , the one from MortarMan and I read all the posts in the Military Marriages forum and some from the forum Surviving an Affair. The info is sporadic so that was the reason I was asking if anyone from experience with exposure to IG can just summarize it in a few sentences. There are thousands of threads.

woundednotbroken has one post in which she says the MB saved her marriage but she never actually posted her story. I tried to see if I can PM her but PM is disabled.

I will definitely ask my thread to be moved. Thanks for the suggestion.

I am not sure why you are saying I have allowed it to thrive so long. I found out early January. It has been a month and one week since I found out. As soon as I found out I started reading everything I could on the internet. I did not know about MB and what I need to do right off. I am doing everything I can as fast as I can. I exposed as soon as I read about exposure. I have to work as well. I can't stay 24/7 on the internet reading about affairs although it may be necessary. I am trying to get info on divorce - I am not familiar with any of this. I will go ahead and call the IG next week.

needinput, we gave you this advice several weeks ago and referred you to the post written by a former IG. It is a key exposure that is critical in military affairs. This does not take hours of reading to do, we gave you the link several weeks ago. Please make plans to EXPOSE to the IG asap. Why don't you see if you can reach him today?

I would stay focused on busting up the affair for the time being. Focus entirely on Mortarman's post and get this exposed.

MelodyLane, I was told by my husband he would be bringing me the divorce papers in three weeks and that there is nothing that would change his mind. That he lost his love for me and loves the AP. I called the IG today to find out how long it takes for the commander to do something about this and they said it can take several weeks because they have to do an investigation and do interviews first. I did not report my husband. I wanted to consult with you on this. I think it might be too late and I do not know if it is even worth it. What is your opinion based on your experience?

You should report him asap. It is your best hope in stopping the divorce train. Your H is not in love with you because a) he has lived away from you and b) he is having an affair. If you can kill this affair, you have a chance. A small chance, but a chance.

NeedInput-

You seem very scared to do the right thing. Please reread the advice given to you. Several posters have asked you to report him if not only for the reason that he is breaking military rules. I am surprised that you are asking them AGAIN, what to do. Somehow you have to find the courage to report him.

I seem to remember other cases where once it is reported, the offender is immediately put on notice to not communicate with the affair partner and the investigation ensues.

If you think it's too late, then why are you here posting? Is there a reason why you think reporting him would hurt you?

Can you please report him tomorrow and come back and let us know that you found the courage to do it?

I want to report. When initially I was advised several weeks ago to do that I did not know much about MB so I would not just go and do blindly what someone advises me to do on a forum. Because she is a prostitute, I am afraid I might get him involved in a lot of trouble apart from just ending their affair. That is my biggest scare. The other scare is he might become violent and when he comes to visit I am not sure what to expect. The last thing I would want is for him to do something to me because he is mad that I reported him and that his "drug" is taken away from him. Honestly, it has nothing to do with whether I will get any benefits. I could care less about the military benefits. I do not get anything anyways.

I agree. So their EA/PA now just turned into an EA. From your experience how long do these EA last if they do not see each other in person but just communicate through media?

We have one on the board right now that has lasted for 12 years!

My wife has been in a hidden EA for the past 17 years!

Trust Melody, report your husband ASAP. Don't wait for him to file for divorce.

Wow! I am sorry to hear that LostOnWestCoast.

Excerpt from Mortarman: "The reason I say go to the IG, rather than the commander of the person's unit, is that many times, the commander might like the servicemember (SM) so they might just sweep it under the rug. That you do NOT want to happen! So, with the IG, they will go to the commander, tell him that they have this complaint...and the commander will conduct an investigation. The IG will oversee this, making sure that the commander does the right thing...and if a violation is found, that the appropriate actions/punishment happen. It will NOT be swept under the rug!"

I called the Army IG today and was told that the IG does not have authority over the commander. So basically this means that the IG cannot make sure that the commander does the right thing. as written in Mortarman's post Therefore, the action the commander will take against the SM will be biased based on whether the commander likes or dislikes the service member. I guess this varies from one branch to another.

Why are you worrying if the commander will or will not "do the right thing" when you yourself are balking on doing the right thing? You should do the right thing, report him, and let the chips fall where they may.

He didn't say the IG has authority over the commander. The point is that once a complaint is filed the commander CAN'T sweep it under the rug because the IG knows of the complaint. It is much like reporting an affair to the HR department instead of directly to the persons supervisor. The cheaters supervisor might sweep it under the rug, but since HR knows about it, that can't happen.

I posted the above post to notify people that the info in Mortarman's post may apply to one branch but not all. People gin the forum get the wrong idea, just like I did before I actually talked to the IG. The Mortarman's post gives the idea that the exposure will be more effective if done through the IG which obviously is not exactly true in every case. I think people should know there is a difference. It has nothing to do with whether I am wondering if the commander will do the right thing or not.

Ok, I see what you mean now. It makes sense. I read it and understood it the wrong way.

Just called the IG. I was told if I do not have any pictures or absolute proof nothing can be done pretty much. I guess we will see.

I have never known of a BS having "absolute proof." That is found when they do the investigation. Are they going to investigate? And did you give them the email where he admits his affair?

His admission is evidence of an affair.

needinput, I have a sense that you are trying desperately to get out of reporting his affair to the IG because you imagine that it will ruin your chances of winning him over when he comes home in 3 weeks. Am I right about that?

The UCMJ and its application is for all branches of service. IGs exist is all branches of service and they all operate according to the UCMJ.

What is your real problem with this exposure? You seem to have lots of manufactured excuses to not expose the affair and your husband's despicable actions.

I already posted above that I already called. You obviously misunderstood what I wrote.

I was told someone will get a hold of me and talk to me about it. But they said they will go ahead and bring this up to the command.

I am not going to sit and argue here. I already repored. What is so confusing about my post? No, I have no chances of getting him back. Pretty slim. You are all wrong for thinking I did not report. I said I called the IG and reported him. They told me someone else will get a hold of me to get more info.

You mentioned that you are worried about hi. Getting in trouble because she's a prostitute. Have you considered that as a possible good thing? He needs to be held accountable for his actions, and the consequences should help break the fog he is in.

Has he been violent with you before?

I doubt it is a prostitute. He is more likely protecting a coworker. They can uncover this in their investigation.

Good point!

Your first post about the IG looked like you kind of just brushed it off, like he said you need proof and you were like ok well I don't have any pictures...

Melody is just making this statement because it seems like you are lacking the energy - Melody wants you to call the IG and tell him everything and don't put the phone down or hang up until they say "OK OK OK we will look into it JEEZ woman... send us what you got." Then after that I would add "I got some emails between my husband and that prostitute!if its a prostitute at all! I think its someone in his COMPANY! IS that enough evidence? How are you letting this happen!" etc.

Show some emotion - it really resonates with the posters on here. They would hate to see you get rolled over by this affair... trust me I was (and still am) a very "by the rules" kind of guy, but during exposure everyone on here convinced me that I really needed to push my own limits for a successful exposure.

just saying - she is not misunderstanding what you said. Everyone is here to help.

She is a bar girl. Other soldiers from his unit have seen her.

I gave the IG my name, my husband's contact info, and he told me he will contact his commander and bring the issue up. He told me someond will contact me to get more info from me.

I would follow up - this is slightly relevant but I contacted many people in HR through my wife's company. I told her boss - he did not respond. So I told her branch HR manager - she said "She would look into it." Then I told the Vice President of Human relations of her company - who also said "they would investigate further." Then I told the HR manager of his region - who also said "they would look into it"... all of this eventually led back to OM and my wife so I know that eventually one of those people confronted them.

Long story short - make sure you are just being silenced... follow up (it can be polite). Be relentless

Did you tell the IG office that you had an email confession of adultery?

Now, you say that someone will be calling back to interview you. What you have told us about your interaction with the IG has varied.

I want to make something clear - the email is between me and him NOT him and his AP.

I did tell them that I have an email in which he confesses. The guy from the IG office told me a Sgt. will call me back and ask me further questions.

I don't know what this means. I thought she was a prostitute? And does this mean you have spoken to other soldiers and they know her? If so, why don't you have her name?

She works in a bar outside of a military base. Typically these women are involved in prostitution. Google "juicy girls South Korea". I saw some texts from her to my husband on his phone, and I know her name - my husband told me that is her bar name. You know how all Asian people have their names and then add an English name for ease of pronunciation. Well, I saw her English name and her picture. Several guys and my husband have gone out to a bar and my husband and her talked. My husband told me many of the guys in his unit know my husband cheated. Obviously the guys who were with him that night know he cheated with her.I know one of the guys who has seen her and he confirmed with me the same name as I saw in this chat. I do not know anyone else in the unit.

I would be sure and give this info to the commander or the IG, whomever interviews you. I would be very surprised if he is leaving you for this woman. I still think he is protecting someone else. You can ask the commander and the IG to investigate and confirm the OW for you.

Agree. Soldiers assigned in Korea almost never divorce their wife over a "juicy girl". Combine that information with your initial post about OW being pregnant and the likelihood of a co-worker is much more likely.

Will do.

He told me she is not pregnant. But in any case, a juicy girl getting pregnant from an American soldier is much more likely because that's what she wants. She wants to get pregnant from an American soldier, because she knows she can keep the guy and marry him. In her case, she knew my husband for 2 months and tried to get pregnant from him on purpose. She thought she would lose him once he came home but my stupid husband does not realize that she is manipulating him. While he is in the US she is seeing other men. This makes much more sense to me because he spent all his deployment money on her - including the BAH and separation pay he was supposed to send me and getting paid more because he is married to me. I am starting to think he is buying out her contract out. That's probably where the money went.

How long does it take for them to contact me back, do you have any idea? Should I call them again tomorrow?

You need to get the facts. It is very unlikely you have anything close to the truth.

So what was the outcome in your case? What do you mean by your last sentence? You mean keep calling the IG or commander for updates?

Yes call for updates.

My circumstance is not yet over. My wife's affair began in Oct 2015. My thread is "My situation"

My husband's affair started around August 2015 - this is what he says but he started acting out like an alien in January this year after I found out about his affair and exposed it to family and friends. I had a feeling however last year that something was wrong but I pushed it to the side thinking he would never do this to me. He completely transformed into a different person when he told me she could be pregnant and had to come back home. The past several times I talked to him on the phone he was angry at me telling me I was bothering him and yelling at me on the phone. Typical wayward behavior! Telling be he is actually very happy and that he loves himself, he acknowledges what he has done is selfish and tells me "but I want to be with her", "but I have very strong feelings for her", "she is my soulmate". I told him this is addiction and lust but he does not listen.

I am sure he already knows this. He knows he is addicted and he already knows he feels lust for her. That is the basis of most romantic relationships.

How did your wife react to the work exposure?

hahah.... well...

she got fired or quit... she moved to another state and stopped talking to every one she ever loved. She has a big dosage of reality right now. She filed for divorce.

But - everyone knows now that I am for my marriage. Everyone knows that I still love my wife and very much want to reconcile. She cannot lie to her family and friends, because I already told them.

She is trapped.

those are the things exposure grants you... Otherwise, she probably still leaves me. I remain quiet and she lies to everyone, tells them I am abusive and what not... blah. Then I am the one trapped.

Very similar to my story, except my WW was able to turn a few people against me despite the facts. (I included her and OM's adulterous emails in my Exposure email). Those Enablers chose to ignore the facts and bought her revisionist history. However, they also admitted to me that WW is a fool for abandoning her family after I proved to them that she was still in contact with OM even though she swore to them she's not.

I'm pretty sure I would have been in the same boat had I just kept quiet and bore it. The timeline may have changed but the end results will probably be the same, with me being blamed as "controlling and abusive" for WW to justify leaving the marriage.

WrestlerChemist, I just read some of your thread. Your wife was furious when you exposed to family and friends. My husband did not seem too upset about it - he just stopped communicating with everyone and kept to himself and the OW. When his mom or friend call him he mentions nothing of the affair. I am not sure what is the right approach - people confronting him or not. His mom told me she does not want to alienate him so she will not talk to him about the OW. When I told family and friends, only his mom and friend contacted him the same day and that's how he realized that I have told them. No one else has contacted him but I made sure he knows who I have contacted. He told me: "You have told such and such person about it". I said nothing. I guess the fact that soldiers in his unit know what he is doing and they just let it happen, gives him a free card to continue with the affair and he thinks it is ok and acceptable. I am about to call the IG for an update and find out why no one has contacted me yet. I have asked my parents and my brother to send him an email asking him to stop the affair but they did not do it. Do you think they should go ahead and do it?

Just remember - if he stops talking to other people, it will require him to get his emotional fixes from this "bar girl" (if it is at all). The thing you have to realize is that this affair is complete and total fantasy to him - its built on lies and likely will not last. The more friends and family know, the more the fantasy becomes reality and begins to crash.

My wife was mad because her addiction was exposed to people she cares about. Melody usually says its comparable to "bringing a lot of people to a crack house, it ruins your high." My wife is still very much wayward... As I am moving through this divorce case, I realize just how wayward she still is.

Do not shrug off Melody's statement - no one gets emotional needs satisfied by a prostitute/bar girl... I am starting to think it could be a woman he works with as well.

Great job planning to follow up with the IG. I know doing all this is hard. Hang in there...

A quote from MelodyLane: "Plan A is intended for when the spouse is in an affair. In Plan A, you do your best to meet her needs and present yourself as an attractive person. No lovebusting, no fighting; don't allow her to BAIT you into fights. Tell her how much her affair hurts you and ask her to end affair."

I already did the lovebusting and fighting so I probably did a lot more damage. How can I meet his needs when he is in another state and does not want to communicate? I actually feel better when not communicating with him.

You know... My wife is also in another state. I also do not feel like I am meeting any of her needs - but, I am still in Plan A.

There might be a time where she comes back around to communicate with me, in which I will be very polite no love busting, etc.

NeedsInput - its painful to hear, but this is a very long ordeal. My wife's affair started almost six months ago. Dr. Harley said, with my wife's current state, my only real move right now is to stay quiet and patient until the OM offends her in a way or dumps her completely. You will find that the "love busting" and fighting at first makes little difference while they are so fresh in the fog, don't beat yourself up over whats already been done... just worry about what you can control moving forward dear.

Thanks everyone for your support. WrestlerChemist, we are in a very similar situation and the timeline of events is just about the same. Called the IG again. He told me he will be calling the commander today but said the commander will not give a no contact order because he has no proof there is an affair going on. On my side, I have to complete a form to start the process, which I will take care of today. The IG mentioned they have thousand of cases they are dealing with and there are 5 IGd there so he said it will take up to a month. My husband will be coming here in 3 weeks and will be filing for divorce.

You should go to Plan B, then. You have been here for more than 3 weeks, your H want allow you to Plan A -- it is time for Plan B.

Women are not encouraged to remain in Plan A for more than 3 weeks because of the effect it has on their mental health. Have you read about Plan B yet?

His confession is proof. Print the email and send it registered mail with receipt to the IG and commander.

Unfortunately, isn't that a de facto Plan B, imposed by your WW?

Yes I suppose - but I am not in Plan B. Do not confuse Plan B for my wife refusing to communicate with me.

Plan B is Betrayed spouse going into no contact. My wife is just being stubborn, I am still in Plan A.

Lets not Hijack Needs thread.

The IG said I can just email everything. I think what I will do is I will print the email, then scan it and email it with the form.

That sounds like a good idea !

As far as I know, Plan B is no contact with my spouse. And, I typically do not contact him, he is the one contacting me when he wants. The problem with plan B is when he comes ere in 3 weeks I will have to speak to him. I have decided to just try my best to keep calm, go to work, and most likely he will be asking me to go with him to take care of documents. I don't know if I can just ignore his requests and just let him take care of business while I do not do anything. If any of these documents require my presence or signature I would have to be there. I don't know what to do.

Yeah, I already lost 7 lbs since January and I am below 100 lbs already. I cannot even focus to do much work. I tell this my husband and he says "You have always been this way. Just don't think about it. There is no sense of torturing yourself deep inside. Focus on your work. I don't know why you are doing this to yourself. Watch/Do something you enjoy. I want you to be happy and to finish school and get a good job. You deserve better. That is not me. There are many men out there. You just need to be careful. You are a catch. You may not be happy now, but you will be later." When he talks to me this way, he makes me furious.

You are completely misunderstanding this. You need to read Dr Harley's articles on the site.

Plan B involves a separation. He cannot live at your house. You cannot have no contact with someone if he lives with you, and it is not "no contact" if he is able to contact you when he wants, as he can right now.

You need to read about how to Plan B properly.

We do not live together. He was deployed for 9 months, came back, I drove 8 hours to bring his stuff, stayed with him 3 days and came back home. He is stationed in another state. We live in different states. Well, he has to contact me for taking care of business. Like I said, he is planning to come here for 2 weeks to separate accounts, car title, insurance, etc. I cannot abandon my home. I have to work and go to school as well. I cannot go stay in a hotel. I am a poor student, I do not have money for all that.

With regard to the divorce papers, they have to be served by someone else, right? If he were to give me the divorce papers would that be considered properly served?

Please read how to Plan B in the Notable Posts, then come back to discuss. You need to be in Plan B.

Also, your husband wants a divorce; the paperwork he wants you to sign is unlikely to be in your best interest. I would not sign anything without consulting an attorney. If you have joint assets, you should move half now. You should change the locks. You should not allow him to remove marital property from the home.

In most states, yes. You would be considered served.

We do not own anything - two cars, furnature, that's it.

How long have you been married?

married 12 years, together 13 years. Pretty much, he has been in the military for all these years with a gap of several years out of the military. I am in school. We do not own anything because I want to finish with school and get a job before we settle down.

Here read this.
How to Plan B Correctly

You are not alone in not fully grasping Plan B. There are several people that don't understand it right away.

Educate yourself reading Doctor Harley's literature.


Read BrainHurts link and maybe read this one too:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Sorry, you are correct.

You may have a claim to his retirement. He likely wants you tosign this away. Do not. You should at least have a consultation with an attorney prior to your husband's visit. Personally, i think you should go into Plan B and refuse to see him u til he ends he affair and is willing to reconcile.

I was thinking may be I could talk to friends and stay at their place during the time my husband will be here. That way he cannot serve me the papers.

I was reading. If you have been married for at least 10 of the years he was in the military, you have a claim on his pension. I suspect the divorce and paper requesting you renounce all claim to his pension are forthcoming.

I very much agree with the others that you should go into Plan B. I would not allow him into your home and would not sign anything or speak to him. If he wants to "take care of some documents" he can do that on his own.

Please read up on Plan B. Are you familiar with it?

I read the article before, and what I understood is I should not interact with him at all, not contact him until the affair has completely ended.

Quote: "So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

He has not seen me for months and when he saw me we were fighting and arguing about this. He does not remember care and thoughtfulness. How can I keep him out of the apartment? We need to do taxes together, and I need his ID. May be just file separately?

He was Guard for most of the years and just recently (2 years ago) got Active Duty. I think there is a difference between being Guard and AD. I dis not understand your last sentence.

An attorney told me that if I am physically served papers I have a legal obligation to sign them. Then, I have to file a legal response within 30 days.

What state are you from?

I had 28 days to respond - if your husband files on incompatibility, you simply seek an attorney and you respond with a disagreement.

Your plan B letter should be the last thing that he hears from you. In it you convey thoughtfulness and care so that is the last thing he remembers. And until you go into pLan B, your communication should be respectful while you demand he ends his affair. You don't need to see him in person to do that. In your Plan B letter you would ask him to not come home and to send any pertinent information through a designated intermediary.

And yes, you can file taxes separately.

All this **** happening and wasting my time because of an affair. Goes to show you how these wayward people are not thinking straight and live in a bubble.

Ok,I need a summary here:

1. Contact IG
2. Contact commander personally
3. Send a plan B letter, in which I request he ends the affair and not come back home until he ends it
4. Go no contact until he ends the affair (How do I know he has ended it?)

By the way, he WILL be coming home - that is for sure. I KNOW he will be coming home no matter my request. So he can be sending me the divorce papers through the intermediary then.

Then change the locks.

You may have to sign a document saying you receivedthe papers. You dont have to sign the papers, themselves. There are no papers or business he can bring that would be in your best interest. Start setting up your plan B today so you can send the letter by this weekend.

He will be staying outside the apartment waiting for me to come back home and will force himself in. I know this. Change the locks or not. If, and I am not sure if, I can stay at a friends house this time and I do not see him then he can get a leave another time and come home without telling me.

Yes, but like the attorney told me I am legally obligated to respond to his divorce claim within 30 days of signing that I have receive the papers. Can I just NOT sign that I have received the papers?

F he is there when you arrive, call the police.

Respond on day 30 if you want to delay. Divorce generally takes a minimum of 6 months if both parties agree about everything.

Be prepared to countersue. He will probably cite irreconcilable difference. You can cite the affair. People may tell you it will mak no difference to the divorce but IIWY I would want the truthinthe legal record.

There is no rule you have to meet with him. Change the locks and leave town if you like. He hasnt lived there in months. He may not have the right to get inside. And if you go solid plan b before then, you wont have to hear the tantrum.

I feel that if he comes home, he will remember what it feels like to be home. Also, he needs to get certain possessions from here. I can't stop him from doing that.

I cannot leave town, I have to work and go to school. This is impossible.

Like I am trying to say NeedInput - the response within 30 days does not mean you are divorced in 30 days.

You can respond with a disagreement that both parties are incompatible.

Additionally, I do not think you need to spin your wheels too hard about the D papers. Lets focus on Plan B preparations. You are not positive that he even is going to get divorce papers (or does he already have them?) In some cases the Plaintiff (you WH) will not deliver the papers but someone from the attorney your husband went to. In my state you do not have to sign any form that you were served, but my wife did not deliver them to me.

Lets take it one step at a time.


I would make sure you are not at the apartment when he arrives. Have a Plan B letter ready inside the apartment for when he gets there.

You won't know he ended the affair. The other part people miss about Plan B is that the Wayward not only ends the affair - but wants to reconcile. That means you only come out of Plan B when he ends the affair and he approaches you again agreeing to your plan of martial recovery.

Basically, you will know when to come out of Plan B because he will be different and maybe (if your lucky, most are not) he will be sorry for what he did.

I was agreeing that you dont need to be home when he shows up.

If he needs something that badly, he can request it via attorney. He should not have access to your home. Has he changed his address yet?

The attorney told me the divorce can take anywhere from 45 days to 6 months depending on the status of the marriage. In our case, we have no property or kids so it will be fast. About citing the affair, yes, that is exactly what I will do.

No, he uses our home address for most things because he was deployed. And, he will be moving to another station in a different state in 4 months. So most of his possessions are here.

Don't worry about his stuff. Your safety and sanity first.

Well, I am about to call his superiors personally. It breaks my heart for him. I asked the IG to give me his commanders contact info and he did not. I am not sure why.

+100

I care about taking care of you. You did not create this situation. I want the best outcome for you. I dont want him in your house because he is actively working against you.

I just talked to his superiors. I was told they will talk to my husband on Friday and call me back with updates. I told the Sgt. that I have contacted the IG but I did not mention that I have not yet submitted the form. I will wait until Friday to see what happens.

He apparently is still overseas.

I would get the form submitted today and get this going.

Does he use social media?

He never did in the past but after meeting this woman he is using KakaoTalk and Google Hangouts I think. He does not have facebook. At least, not that I know of. I saw messages from this woman and I know her picture and name but I do not know what messaging they use. I made an account in KakaoTalk and searched by username but could not find her. He probably told her to change her picture and username because I know now who she is.

I am thinking to ask his command on Friday if it is possible to keep him there and not allow him to take his leave and come here. After my husband gets questioned on Friday, I am expecting him to be calling me. Should I be talking to him or not?

be in Plan B by then.

Did you record those photos and text?

No, he saw me and took his phone from me; he has passcode on his phone but I just clicked on one of the 4 icons on the front page and was able to see a message from her - I did this a couple of times. It was just her username picture that appears right by the text, not photos.

Have you read this? It has Plan B Letter Samples and the IM training link.

Thank you, I will look into it.

Have you searched for her since you know her name on all social media?

No, her English name is so common that it would be impossible to find anything on her.

Ok, I know several of you suggested that I do not allow him at home or that I change locks or that I do not stay at home and leave. This is very hard or I would say impossible to do. First, he has only certain days off and I know he WILL be coming here even if I request that he does not. He lives 8 hours away - it is not the same as him living close to the base and he can drive home and back in case he is not allowed in our apartment. We have no family nearby so there is nowhere for me to go. I have to go to school and work. The other option would be to ask his superiors to not allow him to take this leave as a punishment if possible that way he can stay there but who am I to give orders to them? Also, regarding an intermediary, my husband would not agree to this. He will keep emailing or calling me - what I can do is ignore and do not respond. May be then he would try to contact through the intermediary if I had given this option to him, after he sees that I do not respond.

Well, my husband called this morning furious that I have called the IG. He found out. He said he will be screwing my life and my career now. He said that he was trying to be nice to me and help me out financially by the time I finish school but now he will be speeding up the divorce process and will be making my life a mess. He said he will be calling my family and tell them what I have done. And, now I screwed up any chance of him coming back.

That is great! It sounds like you really hit the mark. The madder he is, the harder you hit the target. My suggestion would be to find a way to go into Plan B. You need to figure this out.

Have you read the Plan B thread? http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

ALL waywards initially refuse to communicate through the intermediary, that is nothing new. But when they see they have no other choice, they usually get on board. I would start asking around for an intermediary and make plans to block any communication if he tries to contact you.

I would also tell your military contact that he has called and threatened you. You might want to go to Walmart and get a recorder so you can tape his threatening calls.

I am scared now that he could become violent and do something and I know he will be coming here. In fact, he might come without me knowing it.

Listen to Melody. My WH didn't get on board with an IM at first either.

Block his email. Block his cell phone. Change your home phone number.

Change the locks on your home. If he breaks in...call the police. If he threatens you go get a restraining order.

If you haven't exposed to both your families...do it TODAY without fail and without hesitation.

You should tell his commander this. Has he been violent with you before?

After he called furious, I had several conversations with him telling him I am not doing a revenge and that I am trying to save our marriage. He called me several times B***H. He calmed down a bit. He said not to expect that he will be back after what I did, that his feelings for her will not change, he does not want to be my husband anymore, and at the end even though she might be manipulating him and trying to be with him for the money he does not care because he has lost all his love for me and wants to spend the rest of his life with her. I asked him to give us more time and told him we can rebuild everything and can be in love again and have a much better marriage and he said he does not want it. He has changed and does not even want to give it a chance. I am expecting that tomorrow he will be furious as well. I still do not know what to do from now on. I know some of you have mentioned IM and plan B but I cannot stop him from coming and I have nowhere to go. May be I should go into plan B after he leaves? But by then, he would have filed for divorce already. Please advise.

You have already received this advice. In addition, you were advised to let the IG and Commander know if your husband is threatening you.


Go into plan B now.
AM

As you were warned in the Exposure 101 thread, most waywards spew this kind of garbage after exposure. Heck, my fWH broke into the marital home and woke me up to spew it.

IGNORE, and proceed as MelodyLane has advised you.

Did you read my post? First off, you should give all this information to his commander. Did you do that? Tell him everything your husband said. In the meantime, you need to figure out how to go into Plan B. Can you go live with your parents? And what makes you think he is coming there?

Also, have you done a thorough job of exposing his affair to family and friends? What about his parents? Have they reached out to him and asked him to end his affair? IF there are any key exposures left, you need to get them done now.

No, did not tell his commander what he said yet. Tomorrow they will be talking to him so he will be calling me to tell me what happened. I exposed to everyone as soon as I found out about the affair - a month and a half ago. His mom knows about it but she does not talk to him about it - she said she does not want to alienate him from her. In fact, may be only two people have told him to stop the affair. I have done all exposure I could - family, friends, superiors. I cannot live with my parents. Also, we have no family nearby. I need to go to school and work. He is coming here because he said he wants to transfer all bills under my name, transfer car insurance and title, do taxes, and file for divorce if he has not already.

Please call the commander and tell him what happened. He needs to know how your H has been treating you and that he has threatened to cut off your financial support.


So, she said she would not use her influence to persuade him to end his affair? That is surprising. Is she really such an uncaring parent?


First off, I would let him know you will not agree to transfer all the bills to your name. HE can't do that without your permission. Don't sign for anything.

In the meantime, you need to start making plans for the future. Do you have family you can move close to?

You are correct, my husband told me that they will be discussing with him not supporting me financially. I feel really bad now, I think they will kick him out of the military for no support. No support from his mom - not surprising - his mom has been married multiple times. She told me this is a phase and he is not thinking straight and I need to just wait for the phase to end. No family nearby. On my own.

No, they won't kick him out for non-support. What they will do is make certain that he provides the support he is supposed to be providing. The command may do this by making your husband set up an allotment to you. Call the Commander before he or she talks to your H tomorrow.

Is your husband currently living in the state of his permanent residence? If not, he make have a difficult time meeting the residency requirements to file for divorce. Also, depending on his length of service and how long you have been married, you may be entitled to a portion of his military retirement if he retires. If you are located near a military installation, you can make an appointment with JAG services to find out more information.

Get into Plan B as soon as possible. Using an IM will enable you to filter out much of these unnecessary abusive conversations.

Why do you say I have to call the Commander? He is not back. The Sgt. I talked with has told my husband he will be seeing him tomorrow for non-support (did not even mention an affair). I was told by the IG that the money he was not paying me during the deployment will NOT be reimbursed to me and he has to support me until we get divorced, which according to my husband's plan is soon.

No, he is not living in the state of permanent residency. The attorney told me that since he is in the military he does not have to meet the state residency requirements for divorce.

My husband also said that he most likely will not be seeing the AP until 1.5 years from now which is good for buying some time unless he is lying about it. He has been lying about everything. I asked him to not rush with divorce after telling me this.

I am planning to ask a friend to serve as the IM. Not sure if she will agree though. This is a lot of drama. Who wants to deal with drama and other people's problems?

Even my own parents are mad at me that I called his superiors telling me I complicated everything and now they have to worry about me.

Did you call the commander and tell him what your husband said today?

I am confused. How would they know he has threatened to stop supporting you if you haven't told them?

Has he ever hit you before?

Someone is the acting Commander in your H's location. You should be talking with that person. A meeting with a SGT, a person with no have command authority over your husband, may not produce results, either in curtailing the affair or ensuring your financial support.

What attorney did you talk to? Military JAG? The IG is not an attorney.

Please answer Mel's question that she has now asked twice. Has your husband ever hit you?

My husband is very upset with me - he said I would never ever see him again for doing this to him. He thinks he will get kicked out of the military for an affair and non-support.

They think he is not supporting me properly because they asked me some questions about it. So I guess they will try to find out more about it. Once long time ago but typically throws away/breaks stuff.

I do not know who is the acting Commander. Not military JAG. Not one in my area.

Now I feel like I am the worst person in the world for doing this to him. He told me I am stupid to involve the military with his affair and that it causes only problems and nothing good comes out of this. Now, if he gets kicked out he will not be able to get a federal job. He mentioned he will be coming tomorrow. They won't stop the affair. They will cause a lot more trouble than that. How do I look now in his face? Like the worst person in the world to be doing this to him, to cause him dishonorable discharge. The AP - she is now staying by his side agreeing how horrible of a thing I have done to him and supporting him. I am not sure how this will help end his affair.

This is why you need to be in Plan B.
Why do you feel that way anyway, after what he has done to you?

I guess because I have conscience and I still love him. I feel really horrible for what I did. What would make your spouse come back if you destroy their career? They will hate you for that for ever and probably never forgive you.

So why is he upset with you? IF he is kicked out it will be due to his behavior entirely. I am sorry he chose to behave in ways that will cause him problems.

This is very irrational and i hope you can calm yourself down. It is wrong to commit adultery and stop supporting your wife. It is not wrong to expose such a person. That is silly and childish to say you are the "worst person." You have done nothing wrong.

You MUST contact the commander and tell him about your husbands threats.

You're buying into his cr*p.
If he had a conscience he wouldn't have cheated on you.
If the Affair continues, he will not come back.

You need to focus on your safety and your problems. Ask the sergeant who the Acting Commander is.

You don't have the power to destroy his career. If his career is destroyed it will be SOLELY due to his poor choices.

STOP these thoughts. You are being "gaslight". Check out the definition, thread and movie about gaslighting. All of this that he's told you is extremely unlikely. My husband was a Colonel, had a six month affair with a Sergeant. He still retired (my requirement), she remained in the service. Both were punished; none of the punishment caused either of them to get "kicked out".

Are you talking to him everyday? Stop!

BTW, the AP is not staying by his side. She is trolling for other Soldiers to take their money.

And you didn't do anything to him except tell the truth. He brought this attention on himself by acting in a despicable manner.

AM

Your conscience is not telling you it was wrong to expose his affair. That is your irrational emotions. You are not thinking clearly.

Melody and Sugar and Brain can all tell you how long it took me to get on board with plan B....forever....take their advice NOW and quit hesitating....you are only hurting yourself as you sit paralyzed in your lack of action. Take the control back and ACT. You're wasting time feeling sorry for yourself. You have a very short window to act since he's coming home tomorrow. You didn't cause this HE did.

I don't know for sure if he is coming home tomorrow but he mentioned it. I don't know where to go. I guess stay at a hotel. This is too fast.

Change the locks in the very least.

I feel so horrible. I think when you are at a higher rank, it is much harder to discharge you because you have a lot of responsibilities. He is not, so it will be very easy to discharge him. If you do not mind telling me AM, what was the punishment they faced?

Call his commander or commander on duty right now!

It is past work time now. Why should I call? Talk about what? They will call me tomorrow and tell me what they will be doing. I feel sick to my stomach now.

While I was talking to my husband, his AP was calling him on Skype. I wonder if she realizes that she is part of the problem here and if she will continue to be selfish enough to continue the affair for her own sake. If I were him, I would begin to hate her. I told my husband today that this is entirely due to mainly his and partially her behavior. I did not take him by the hand and tell him to go cheat. I told him that all these years he has been in the military he never once got in trouble while he was with me, now he has been in an affair for several months and he got in big trouble. I wonder if he will make this association of reckless behavior with her:

his AP's influence on him = his reckless behavior (wasted all his deployment money, did not properly support me, chance of getting STDs, chance of ruining his career)

Go change the locks TONIGHT. Block his number and take no more calls.

They didnt cause trouble.
You didnt cause trouble.

HE DID THIS TO HIMSELF. KNOWING THE CONSEQUENCES, HE STILL CHOSE AN ILLEGAL COURSE OF ACTION.

You are protecting US because service members screwing around are a serious danger.

Call a locksmith. Have the locks changed tonight.

If he shows up, dont answer, just call 911. Tell them your H is threatening you, has hit you in the past.

Dont rattle on with the police. Just tell he hit you before and is threatening you.

Do not open the door to him. Call tomorrow first thing for an urgent consult with divorce attorney. If you dont know who to call, call the local women shelter. They will have resources. If you dont have a place to stay, go to a shelter.

Not true. My H was relieved from his job. The lower ranking OW remained in her job. Both received a monetary fine.


How many times a day are you talking to your husband?

AM

Today - several times. Otherwise, once every 3-4days in the past 2 weeks. I am sure he will be coming tomorrow. Did you report your husband? How did he react, if you did?

needinput, I am sure he reacted just like your husband. That is how EVERY wayward reacts when they are exposed. Surely you did not expect otherwise?

I don't know why you are surprised about this? What on earth were you expecting??

Thanks. I just called a shelter - I got some really good info from them. Now, I am not worried that much if I need a place to stay.

Melody, you are right. I just feel that being reported in the military is something very serious, I think much serious compared to being reported in a civilian job. My husband told me I should have let him know in advance that I would be calling the IG before calling. He said "I told you that I will be filing for divorce, didn't I? I tell you my plans so you are aware of what I would be doing."

Your husband is reacting just like every other wayward. He is furious. There is nothing new here. And yes, it is very serious to commit adultery when you are in the military. I am sorry your husband chose to wreck his career in this way.

And how silly it would be for you to forewarn your husband that you were going to report him. Then he could beat you to the IG and tell him you are an angry lunatic. Your husband has a lot of nerve lecturing you on what you "should do." He is no position to lecture anyone. He should not have committed adultery.

Here Please Explain Gaslighting

Thanks, Brain!

So glad to see you posting, Armymama!!

I don't think all this is going to stop my husband's affair. I am getting depressed now. While I was talking to him, she was calling him on a messenger. He has told her that I have called the military. I hope she realizes she has contributed to this mess and I am sure she would continue to contact him because that is her ticket to the US. It pisses me off.

So proud of you for finding the courage to expose this and get help from his superiors. Also happy to see you contacted a shelter for a backup plan. You will get thru this!

I don't think his superiors will do anything about this affair.

Maybe not - but it stresses the affair partners out so much that the affair itself dies anyways.

You are not going to get quick results. Like I said, my wife's affair has been going on nearly six months now and from what I know its no closer to ending than when it first began... but I am kind of in the dark a little bit on my wife's case.

Push them for a no contact order. It should be simple since he is in US and she in Korea. Then, if he is caught communicating with her, he will open himself up to more trouble.

Thanks. I read rather often, but don't post much. You all have been giving such expert advice, anything I might add would be superfluous.

Hugs back at you!

They typically extend a no contact order and that is what you should push them for. Have you heard back from them today? Did you tell the commander about his threats?

His 1st Sgt. told me that my husband has said that he has not been and is not currently involved in an affair and that he is even eager to come see me. Yeah right, he is eager to come here to start the divorce process. His Sgt. released him after a 15 min meeting.

No, no contact order is usually issued in the case of me and my husband in case he becomes violent and I fear for my safety. I was told they will do investigation regarding the affair - I told them everyone in the unit knows and nothing was done about it. I did not say anything about the threats. I need to find out some info and will probably be doing this next week. I am too exhausted from all this drama. I need a break.

I will ask again. I asked before but they have said anything to him. He was so scared before this meeting and now he is happy. Again, started to treat me disgusting (gas-lighting me).

They cannot catch him communicating with her. They would have to monitor his phone or email. They won't do that. Apparently, everyone knows and no one says anything about it.

I can only imagine how much it stressed him out, even I could not sleep or function the day before and during the meeting.

And did oyu disabuse him of this notion and tell him the truth? Did you tell him that your H was in touch with his adultery partner just yesterday? I don't understand why you aren't helping yourself out here.

\

The no contact order to which I am referring is issued for the affair partners. Was that done?

I just talked to my husband. He now tells me there is no affair partner. In fact, he said that he made up the AP because it would be easier for him to end our relationship. I reminded him that I have seen her picture and some of her messages on his phone and he cannot tell me that she never existed. I am starting to think that he is making things up in his mind or distorting and mixing both his fantasy world and the reality. He is believing his own lies. May be coming out of the fog.

After reminding him that I have seen her texts and she still exists, he repeated that he is not in an affair. So I asked him if she did something wrong or she just pulled back after finding out last night that I have called his command. Either this is a play or it could be true, not sure. He refuses to tell me anything. Two days ago he claimed to love her and that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. He was telling me that it would be about 1.5 years until he could possibly see her.

Today, he said he feels empty inside and that he gave everything from himself and now he wants to be a single man. He does not want to be involved in any relationship with anyone. He listed all my negative traits (I and the AP are exact opposites of each other) - said that I am too authoritative and too independent and type A personality, I have been in school all these years, I wok too much, we have no kids, he does not love me anymore, is not attracted to me, is tired of the life we have been living together for all these years, he wants a different life. He said he will be divorcing me for sure sooner or later and I complicate things for him financially if he continues to be married to me.

No, I am exhausted. I need a break from all this.

Not done. I asked for it but not done.

Typical FOG talk. All Waywards use the same script. It's like there's a manual out there that they all stumble upon. Waywards can't be trusted while in the fog.

You need to go into Plan B and stop talking to him. What is exhausting you is talking to this lying falling down drunk. Do you understand how Plan B works?

Apparently not becuase you continue to do completely unproductive things like talk to your lying, fogged out husband. You should ask the Commander to issue a no contact order like they typically do.

So you still think he is in an affair? I am starting to believe that she probably pulled back. The reason I am saying this is because two days ago he was telling me that he is very happy. Also, in the past he would always say he loves another woman and wants to be with her. He seemed to be really upset today. Now, he claims not to be in an affair. So I really think something happened. He told me he does not trust anyone anymore and that he thinks I have a recorder on my phone and told me he will tell me everything in person.

hmmmmm now why would a lying liar tell you lies about his affair? Who has the greatest reason here to LIE?

I don't believe for a minute you are that naive. If you believe that then you are clearly in denial.

He has had 2 days to gaslight you and it is working. I can tell he has a history of feeding you nonsense and you have a history of accepting the most ridiculous lies. This is part of the problem.

No, before the affair he has not lied. I am not sure in what sense you mention "history" here.

So you still think he is in an affair? I am starting to believe that she probably pulled back. The reason I am saying this is because two days ago he was telling me that he is very happy. Also, in the past he would always say he loves another woman and wants to be with her for the rest of his life. He seemed to be really upset today. Now, he claims not to be in an affair. So I really think something happened. He told me he does not trust anyone anymore and that he thinks I have a recorder on my phone and told me he will tell me everything in person. I don't know what to believe anymore. I could be in a denial, as you mentioned Melody.

You are foggier than him if you believe that. And are clearly in denial. He has changed his story because he doesn't want to get in trouble of course.

What has happened is that you busted him and he knows he will get in trouble.

Yes, he is still in an affair! If she has cooled things down, it's because she found a better target in Korea. You said it yourself that he thinks you are recording him. So, of course, he will not admit to an affair.

Have you read/learned about Plan B? Go into Plan B ASAP.

Persist with the command. Tell them you want no contact between H and sleazy OW.

AM

Of course he has a history of lying. He lied to the military just yesterday.

Did you read the link about gaslighting? Pretty typical wayward behavior from your husband.

You're very welcome and so glad to see you posting.

needinput,

Did you read this?

Yes I did. Today things appear much clearer to me. I do believe the affair is still going on, he just lies about it. I am positive about it now. I really think I have too many things going against me here. His superiors can't and won't do anything - his Sgt. told me he cannot force or impose restrictions on either of us. So my husband won't stop communicating with her and she is proactive because she knows she can get a ticket into the US. The Sgt. knows he is in an affair, I told him everyone in the unit knows. Besides I was so shocked by the fact my husband wanted a divorce that I was actually crying on the phone when talking to his Sgt. The Sgt even agreed with me that the AP is most likely manipulating him and said typically juicy girls try to get pregnant from soldiers there. The other problem is we have been separated so it was easy for my husband become completely detached from me. At least, I was able to scare the heck out of him and her so they could see how reckless they are and may be take away from the glamor of their affair.

Something interested he said: "Now, because you reported me I see a different part of your personality. I do not trust anyone now." What the hell is he thinking, that he is safe and I won't report him? Really?

As you said, the SGt. Isn't the usual Peron. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Your H commuted a crime. They can order no contact. They do it all the time.

For your education...
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2315999

needinput, you are not reporting to the right person. Find the commander and report to him.

Don't give up.

Should my husband know who the IM for plan B is or should I not say? Does it make any difference? A friend he knows is willing to help me with this.

YOU choose the IM. He doesn't need to agree. In fact he will resist. Too bad so sad.

Choose the best person for the job, someone who will protect you and agree to only act as a spam filter. Your husband will not likely want to cooperate but he will when he sees you are serious. Have you started writing your letter? Do you understand how plan b works?

Absolutely. The Commander is the person to give a no contact order. Go directly to him/her. The 1SG may not even be telling the Commander what is going on.

AM

I was told the commander is not back from the deployment.

Who's the Acting Commander?

What's going on, input? Have you been dealing with this?

Thanks for asking. After I reported him, he told me that the AP did him wrong, that he gave everything from himself and is now done with relationships and wants to be single. I wrote him a letter and I stopped communicating with him.

He came home this week to file for divorce. He is staying at the apartment in a separate room and leaving tomorrow. He seems much more like himself now. There is definitely a difference in his attitude. Apparently, he broke it off with the girl because "she did him wrong" (his words). He refuses to tell me what has happened but he says he has nothing to do with her anymore. I know I can believe this because of how he reacts when I ask about her which is very different from how he acted before. He did tell me that he actively tried to make her pregnant the month before he came back home (after she tried to get pregnant) to make sure she stays with him. He tells me even though they are no longer together he wants to be single, does not want to be in a relationship with anyone, does not want to feel responsible for anyone, and does not love me anymore. He acknowledges this is pure selfishness. He said he has changed and is no longer the person he used to be. He wants to live on his own and will be much happier without me or even without being in a relationship with anyone. He says that he feels more productive when he is on his own and does not like the fact that he has to consider me in any of his decisions and that I slow him down. Even though I am very independent and far from high maintenance as a woman, he still feels like I add pressure to his life due to the fact that he is committed to me. He tells me I am "a catch" and someone will be very fortunate to have me. It makes me furious that he talks to me this way. He is not willing to rebuild what we have because he is in a selfish state of mind and there is nothing I can do to help him see a good side in staying married.

His listening and communication skills are horrible. It is pretty hard having a meaningful conversation without him interrupting me or him getting angry because he has no patience discussing things. When I try to get answers for myself so I can come to terms with all this and heal from it, he does not provide answers to me but repeats the same thing to me: "I am done. I want a divorce. What do you not understand about this?" I ask him a specific question and his response is "I am done". He thinks that by me trying to talk to him so I can get answers for myself I am trying to manipulate him somehow into changing his mind. Just today he called me all possible devaluing words one can think of. I heard the most unbelievable things - things I never thought I would hear from him, from the person who used to tell me and show me how much he loved me every day. Honestly, today I do not think I want him as a husband any more.

He told me he hates me...that he can't wait to divorce me because he would be so much happier without me. He threatened me and yelled uncontrollably in order to manipulate me to do things. He basically tells me throughout the relationship there were things that were bothering him but he would just sweep them under the rug because he is a laid back person. But everything that he mentioned he said it with such hate I could not believe it. He said he let these issues unaddressed, his feelings bottle up and now he exploded (after seeing that with his AP he did not have to do work on a relationship to be happy). He probably resented me for things for years and never told me so the whole time I thought everything was fine. I know certain instances and behaviors that he did not like - like me focusing on grad school instead of paying attention to him - but honestly this is a part of life, and he should know this is temporary. Grad school is very stressful and requires a lot of dedication and hard work. I actually thought that he was proud of me and supported me. It turns out this is one of the main reasons he wants to divorce me in addition to the fact that he does not love me anymore - because all these years I have been in school going through my bachelors to my doctorate, telling me I am too focused on my goals. He just has a bachelors and does not understand how stressful grad school is and probably cannot appreciate what I am going through. Apparently I never gave him enough attention which is somewhat true that I was just simply too busy with school and work but again this is temporary and I have not always been this way. What bothers me is that he never addressed this issue and now is not even giving me the chance to make any changes. He says he mostly enjoyed our time on vacations but life is not a vacation. He said after meeting his AP, he realized if he ever gets remarried he would want to have a housewife and not a goal-oriented person like me who would want to have a career.

He just makes me feel so guilty. If I knew at the time there were things that I could have changed that would otherwise lead to a divorce if left unaddressed, I would have certainly changed them. What bothers me is that every relationship has issues, and honestly, I have really enjoyed all these years with him and despite the ups and downs I was very optimistic about our relationship and always thought we were a strong compatible couple that could withstand many problems. How wrong was I! He tells me that if he were to get involved in another relationship he would be much happier. It bothers me that I am willing to work on whatever is necessary to improve our relationship but he does not even want to try.

I am just very disappointed with how he handled the situation and the fact that 13 years mean nothing to him, his lack of commitment and responsibility as a husband. I never thought I married someone like this. I am completely caught off guard. I don't know if this is just an emotional state he is going through or not. Because if it is an emotional state, divorce is the most stupid solution to his unhappiness. I told him his unhappiness is not rooted in our marriage or his wife, his unhappiness comes from within himself. He agrees with me and even so still does not want to do anything about it and wants out of the marriage.

We went to see an attorney today to file for divorce. He is dead set on this option and would have filed and divorced me anyway. The difference is I would have to be paying too much money I don't have. After he treated me today, I don't even think I want to live with him anymore. He does not have to put on disgusting treatment for his wife of 13 years in order to get what he wants. I just saw his true character. Even if he was behaving so disgusting to force and manipulate me to agree to divorce, such behavior is unacceptable to me and to me he is not a real man.

Thanks for the update, needinput. I think divorce is the definition of success in your case. Best of luck..

I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I agree will Mel that you are well rid of him. When does he move out?

I am not sure. He will probably move officially out in July.
Is there anything I could have done differently that could have changed the outcome?

When I was doing the online course, I once spoke to Dr Harley on the phone about my daughter's friend's mother. I had just heard that the father had announced his affair, in Dubai where he worked, and would not be going home. The affair was with a woman whom he said worked there with him, but when she dug a bit deeper, the wife found that the woman actually lived near them in England.

The wife confronted this woman at her house, and more or less had an attack on the doorstep of the OW's house. She was in hospital for something like 10 weeks (which is an incredibly long time after a heart attack) and she had a teenaged son still at school, whom the daughter had to keep coming home to look after, but even his young son and his wife's illness did not make this man budge one inch from saying the marriage was over. His wife was a semi-invalid after the heart attack, and the house would have to be sold. The wife, who had not earned money for a while, and son, would have to move to a cheaper house and survive somehow. His daughter would not speak to him, and he appeared not to care one bit. He was really drunk on his affair.

Dr Harley told me to tell her to let him go. She was to let the divorce go through and not try in any way to get him back. He would not come back with any seriousness, whatever she did, unless the affair crashed and he had nowhere to go. There was nothing she could do to get him back, and she needed to save herself much heartache. he had detached himself from her when he moved to Dubai, and felt very little for her now, and so could not be moved by her plight.

I think your case is very similar. I don't think there is anything you could have done to stop the affair. You were very reluctant to expose, but you had not exposed, he would not be with you today. Exposure did not cause him to leave - he was saying that he was done well before you exposed. If he really was trying to get her pregnant, he really was done in his mind, long before you found out.

I think he was always going to do this. You need to let him crash and burn, and stop mourning him.

By the way, you need to put him out today. He does not get to benefit from you in any way, now that he has fired you as his wife.

Yeah, I told him that I wanted him to stay in a hotel tonight and he started to yell at me and threaten me. I told him he does not even pay rent so I have the right to kick him out for the night. Anyways, when he started threatening me I just became indifferent to his disgusting and manipulative attitude.

Why did you tell him to leave for one night?? You need to pack his bags and move him out. You are not "indifferent" to him. He will wreck your health if you don't get him out.

Wow, this is really heartless of this man. In my case, my husband typically is not one to show empathy and compassion even when he used to claim he loved me. There have been many situations in which he did not show any empathy for me. So it makes much sense for him to not be moved by my emotional pain. I am not surprised by this. I did expose the affair as soon as I found out which was about 5 months into the affair already. He actively tried to get her pregnant after I found out and exposed the affair and demanded him to stop it. He started saying he was done as soon as I found out the affair and exposed to family and friends. Just like you said "he was already done in his mind long before you found out" - yes, he told me that he already thought about divorcing me last year. I guess once he came back home he could have possibly come out of this state but he did not. I think him separating from the AP made things worse. He was much more drawn to her.

What I meant was if there was anything I could have done after I found out about the affair to prevent the divorce? I did everything possible to stop the affair and as it just happens the AP did him wrong and so he claims to be done with her.

He already packed, he is leaving tomorrow. He does not want to stay here. He wants to leave asap. We just need to take care of some documents tomorrow, that's why he is still here. Otherwise, he would have left already. Even the first night, he left to stay at a hotel because I kept asking him a lot of questions and he did not want to discuss anything with me.

I'm glad he left. Once again you need to go to plan B. Your husband has acted with contempt towards you. He's made you the enemy. A military tactic. You can't want him either if you have any self respect. Once the divorce happens you need to protect yourself due to his instability. You need to heal and go forward. He's no longer welcome in your home. You are no longer his helper to coordinate personal affairs or take orders from. His helpful counsel to you is fog babble. Go dark. He hasn't crashed yet. Have you seen your doctor?

I'm not sure you got my point. I did not tell you this story just to tell you about a heartless man. I told you this because I think Dr Harley's advice to that woman would be the same to you; just let him go. He is not rescuable.

Your question was whether you could have done anything differently. My answer was intended to show that nothing you could have done would have made a difference. Your H was set on going and nothing could have stopped him. The situations are similar, in that the deployment took him away from home and you only saw each other every couple of months, as with my daughter's friend's situation. In both cases, there was an enormous emotional distance between the spouses, cause by them living apart. It was easy in both cases for one spouse to form a deep emotional attachment with someone else, with the other spouse completely unaware that this was going on. In both cases, that deep connection went on for so long that the faithful spouse was completely out of the frame by the time she found out about the affair. There was no way to bring the unfaithful spouse back to the marriage. That is what I was trying to tell you.

Dr Harley does not have much success with military marriages where one spouse is deployed, and this is because it is impossible to create a romantic, integrated marriage when the two spouses live completely separate, independent lives.

You have been given some good advice. I agree that there is nothing you could have done differently. He should move out now. Take care of yourself legally and financially. And you should never see or speak to him again.

Sadly, it is true about lack of success with military marriages and deployments. The couple ends up living independent lives out of necessity and it is hugely difficult to have a romantic marriage. In the old days, there were few married military couples and there was a saying that "If the Army (Marines, whatever service) had wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued one". There was some wisdom to that. And I know I sound very old fashioned, especially in that I myself had a 28 year long Army career and retired as a Colonel. My husband and I have been married 34 years and had a great marriage until separations from the deployments became more and more frequent.

You have lots going you. You have the potential to have a great marriage with someone else.

AM

I did get your point. Thanks, SugarCane.

I have heard that saying. The thing is I know what I signed up for when I married him. I have been with my husband for 13 years out of which he has been in the military for 9 years. If I did not think I could have stayed with him despite being separated I would not have married him in the first place. I knew I had to make this sacrifice. It turns out, he is the one that is being bothered by the separation much more than I. He should not be in the military then. His contract ends next year and he could get out if he is so much bothered by being separated from each other. By then, I would have finished with school and again we could have moved in together. We have been able to stay together all these years. I just can't follow his thinking process and understand why he wanted a divorce. I told him if he does not love me, then he can give us time to address whatever issues we have to make love present again in this relationship. He did not want that. This is what has been bothering me - that he did not even want to give us time and try to address the issues.

But did you know that divorce was the most likely outcome? Divorce is epidemic in the military and Dr. Harley has never figured out to overcome the damage caused to the marriage by deployment separations. You might have wanted to stay together, but that agreement is not worth much when the couple falls out of love. When the couple falls out of love, due to the emotional detachment caused by separation, the marriage will always be at high risk. Just an agreement to stay married is not enough to hold a marriage together.

Dr Harley did identify many marriages that did - miraculously - stay together through deployment, but he could find none who were in love.

Of course, there is damage to the marriage due to deployments. Falling out of love is not an excuse to me. Any adult realizes that he or she will fall out of love. I managed to survive after all these deployments and separations because I can function on my own and be happy on my own and still keep the love for him. It is called you choose to love someone and take action to love someone and you make arrangements in your life to make things work. In his case, he might have been unhappy because we have been separated and he never raised the issue and let me know that it has been bothering him to such an extent that he wanted a divorce. I have never pressured him, always gave him freedom to do whatever he wanted, and have always supported him and encouraged him to try different things. I am far from being a high maintenance woman. I am a thinking person. If he told me something was wrong, I would have addressed it. He basically gave me no warning and time so I can possibly do something about it. He has no regards to me and no commitment to our marriage. This is pure selfishness on his part. He obviously managed so many years to deal with it. What happened this time? He found someone else. No excuses for his stupid actions. If he so much wanted to live with me, he could have waited for his contract to end next year and come back home so we can live together. Besides, I really am not sure if he is still with this woman. I have a feeling he still is. This American society (yes, I am a native of another country) thrives on selfishness. I am so sick of it. American Motto: "I will do what makes ME and only ME happy." How ridiculous!

Most marriages don't stay together once they fall out of love, though. So the key is to maintain the romantic love in the marriage. That is what this program does. Once a couple falls out of love, they are vulnerable to affairs and eventually divorce.

My suggestion to you would be to read the book Surviving an Affair so you can understand what happened here so you can avoid this in the future. If you get married again, you will likely be facing this same situation all over again unless you make some critical changes in your approach to marriage.

That is human nature that is not unique to Americans. People get married to be happy. They don't get married to be alone. And believe me that is the case with people in foreign countries. The bottom line is that living apart will destroy most marriages. This is why Dr Harley counsels couples to never spend the night apart.

He said to me yesterday all the colorful disrespectful words one can possibly think of, made a monster out of me and tried to make me feel guilty of so many things, and then before he left he came and hugged me a couple of times and told me "I am sorry for what has happened these past few days, I don't want us to stay enemies." To me, the is the most devaluing and damaging thing he could do to me and tell me. I'd rather leave it on bad terms. It would be so much easier to me to forget he ever existed.

Yes, they don't stay together because they choose not to do work to improve the marriage. This is the case with my husband - he has always put minimum effort into doing whatever it is he is doing, if something is too time consuming he would not even try it, he puts up with nothing that requires a little bit of patience, and if something requires some work he won't even attempt it.

What critical changes should I be making? I believe every one in a marriage should be who she or he wants to be, free, and your spouse should add to who you are. Like I said, since my husband decided to be in the military he should be the one to know whether he is capable of living separated from me or not. This is not my responsibility. I can only trust him. I know that I can do it and that's why I have stayed married to him. He is active duty now. Why does he think that even if he were to get a housewife, he would be spending more time with her than with me and will not be separated. Once I am done with school I will have a regular job like most people in this universe. How does that make me different from any other spouse he could possible have?

But none of that will keep a person in a marriage. You seem to think that an obligation will keep a person in a marriage and that is not true. People get married to be happy. When that is not the case, they get divorced. You have learned this lesson the hard way.


And look where that belief got you? My suggestion is to put aside your own failed ideas and learn how to create a great marriage. Surely you don't want to go through this again?

When I got married, I did not get married to be happy because I was already happy on my own. I married because I loved my husband and wanted him to be in my life and share my life with him. If you are unhappy and get married in order to become happy, that is the wrong approach to marriage because only then it will end in a divorce because you obviously are not happy with yourself and finally realize marriage does not make you happy.

But your marriage is ending in divorce. I am just pointing out that your ideas have not worked for you and you might want to rethink them. Your own approach to marriage has not worked for you and will not work for others.

Before I was married, I was unhappy because I wasn't married. Everything else in my life was lined up just fine,and I had huge, exotic plans, but I was unhappy. Of COURSE I got married to be happy (and I gladly gave up my exotic plans to do it!). I certainly didn't get married to BE UNHAPPY. Marriage completed me. And that's okay.

And you're the one getting a divorce, not me. Maybe you should stay away from the anecdotal evidence and learn the plan that works.

That belief is detrimental to marriages. It is not a given that you WILL fall out of love.

You realize the world thrived on selfishness before America was even around, right? We didn't invent the concept.

I am trying to figure out why you are here if you believe that. I came to Marriage Builders because Dr. Harley said he had a plan to stay in love for life. If you don't believe that is even possible, why pick Marriage Builders?

According to Dr. Harley, 20% of marriages are happy and most are not. That could explain why most people think that everyone eventually falls out of love in marriage.

My wife and I fell out of love and back in love many times during our recovery process, which was longer than it should have been.

Ok, but I am not the one getting the divorce. It is my husband who is getting the divorce. What do you mean by "anecdotal evidence?"

You are misunderstanding me...I do believe that it is possible to be in love for life. I am just saying that people do fall out of love if no precautions are taken. Your last sentence proves my point. This is what bothers me - that I know it is possible for my husband to fall back in love with me but he does not believe it and does not want to do anything about it. Therefore, he is proceeding with a divorce.

Melody, I am not ending my marriage. Obviously, I am here to try to do something about it. My husband is ending the marriage and he is not the one sitting in front of the computer spending time on forums. Obviously, he is the one who is having a problem with the marriage. He could have addressed the issues in advance. I cannot address an issue I am not aware of because my husband does not communicate. Otherwise, I would have addressed it. We are both adults. He should be the one to raise any issues. I cannot read his mind.

Of course, people get married and they are happy when they are married because they share their life with someone else. This is the reason why I married...From the threads I read in this forum, you and your husband both are putting effort to stay "in love". I guarantee you 100% if I told my husband about Dr. Harley and his research he would not even try to do what is necessary to bring back the "in love" feeling in our marriage because he does not want to. I have told him it is possible and he got even more defensive. This desire to improve our relationship should come from within and me obviously pointing it out was making him defensive. He introduced a third person in the equation and no the grass on the outside is greener for him. So he does not want to do anything to improve our relationship.

Yes, I realize that. However, living in different cultures I can definitely point out differences in terms of how entitled and selfish one feels because he or she lives in the land of freedom. This is just a mindset engrained in a lot of people here and I am sure it happens in many other places in the world. It is just not as prevalent because the culture does not promote certain kinds of freedoms that destroy the institution of marriage or make it shaky. When my cousin was contemplating a divorce both my uncle and aunt stood up for saving the marriage and had an influence on my cousin. He is happy now and has 2 kids despite thinking of divorce in the beginning of his marriage. My husband's mom has been through 4 or 5 marriages, his dad through that many as well, his brothers and sisters as well. The apple does not fall far away from the tree - just like it is not a big deal in his family, it is also not a big deal to my husband. Did his mom tell my husband anything? No. Why? Because she told me she did not want to alienate him. If I were thinking divorce, my parents would have never supported me and would have been talking to me about doing something to make sure we make it better. They would never support divorce. There is no one in my family who has been divorced so obviously I am much more willing to put in the necessary work to make this relationship the best it could be. How one reacts to the choice of making t he relationship best or chooses divorce has to do with the moral system of each individual and the family he or she comes from. Divorce in this country is rampant. While divorce is looked down upon in many cultures, it seems much more acceptable here and that is the problem.

Why don't you try the Marriage Builders program?

I am willing to try but how? My husband is divorcing me. I have asked him to give us time and try to work on our marriage to reestablish the love in our relationship. He gets defensive and tells me I am counseling him and that will not work. He is dead set on what he wants. I think he is still under the influence of his AP and thinks it is impossible to love me. Who knows, may be they are still together and he is lying.

You know, it really isn't wise, or well-mannered to post on a website owned by an America, and populated by Americans, and then insult the culture. I'm posting from the United Kingdom, and I would never dream of behaving in such an uncivilised way. Neither, for that matter, would I think it acceptable to live in a different country, as you do, and then publicly write such derogatory things about the culture, as you did. And doing so on a website where you've come seeking help from those people is just beyond silly.

Don't alienate people here. We are on your side. Most of us have been through the horror of adultery, and we post here to support people like you, who are going through it now. What do you think will happen to your support if you accuse people of coming from a culture that is entitled and selfish? It is not exactly entitled and selfish for people to give up their time and post to you; quite the opposite, I'd say.

Do you know how many people on this site have relatives who stood up for the marriage? We have parents here who got on the phone to the affair partner and chewed them out, telling them to get out of the marriage, and that if they thought they would be welcomed as the new spouse they had better think again. We have had parents who have kicked their own child's butt for being unfaithful. Indeed, family and social pressure is the basis for Dr Harley's policy of exposing an affair. If it were true that the culture does nothing to support marriage, Dr Harley would have no basis for his recommendation. And exposure works to bring about the end of an affair many cases.


I do take your point about "freedoms that destroy the institution of marriage" - such as the easy divorce laws - but I would point out that there is a strong Christian culture in the USA - far stronger than in the UK - and that this Christian culture is supportive of marriage. Most people who post here had spouses who were not promiscuous before or during marriage, and who behaved entirely out of character when they allowed another person to meet their needs. Both spouses married intending to keep their vows. They are, by and large, Christian. The have conservative values. Please don't denigrate an entire culture because your husband's families the way it is. Such a pattern of divorce is not common among the families of the people who post here.

You probably won't be able to try MB in this marriage, as your WH seems set on leaving, but it was suggested that you try it if you ever marry again, and you roundly rejected the need for that.

When we pointed out that your separate lifestyles gave him the wide-open opportunity to have his needs met by someone else, you argued against that. You argued that each spouse should be free to live their own lives, and that loving is a choice. He should simply choose to love you and honour his vows.

Dr Harley's research has led him to see that people fall in love when their most important emotional needs are met by someone else. Each person puts deposits in the love bank account held by the other person. Creating and maintaining love is a simple mathematical relationship of adding to, and subtracting from, the account in the other person's love bank.

You can't add to your account in someone's love bank if you have long periods when you never see them - and to make matters worse, someone who DOES see them, such as the bar worker where your husband is deployed, CAN rapidly make deposits because she is with him frequently; being affectionate, flattering and admiring him, talking to him and, soon, having sex.

If you reject one of the basic concepts of Marriage Builders - that of the love bank (or indeed ANY of the basic concepts) - you are, in effect, rejecting all of it. If you don't accept that a marriage will not make each spouse happy if it is not deeply integrated, with the spouses living together always, and sleeping in the same bed every night, and meeting the four intimate emotional needs for a substantial period of time every week, you are asking for trouble - at least, you are asking for trouble if you do not marry someone from a much more duty-bound culture, like your own.

Again, you are interpreting wrong everything I say. First off, I am a US citizen and I live in the US. I stand for the people here and I actually think the people in this country are some of the most open people I have met compared to other countries. I married an American and obviously I have nothing against Americans. I myself have actively tried to get in the military. Also, I have volunteered a lot ever since I have been in the US to give back to the community. I just made a statement based on my observations. Now, whether other people agree with my observations or not that is their opinion. I also have an opinion. I have in no way tried to insult anyone on this website.

You are correct. That's why again I say that I have not intended to offend anyone. I made a statement trying to explain and rationalize why there is such a prevalence in divorce rate here based on my observation. May be people disagree with me but this is my observation.

There is a high divorce rate in the US because most people don't know how to protect the romantic love in their marriages. As such, they fall out of love. Exactly as you have experienced. People who are in love don't get divorced.

Exactly, this is what I meant when I was talking about the values of the individual and the family. If such values are not in place, whether they exist because of religion or not, marriage goes out the window and divorce is much acceptable....Anyways, this website is not about discussing such issues. I think this thread got off topic. So I will stop discussing because the conversation in continuing in an area where there will always be a debate and is largely based on personal views and serves no purpose here other than the fact that people get insulted from what I am already observing. My intention was to make a point about why my husband would proceed with a divorce while in my case it is unacceptable. My intention was not to start a conversation about attacking this culture but I guess this is a topic which is too sensitive to some so I will not discuss anymore. This is not the purpose of this website.

Thanks everyone for your time and your support.

All you are really saying is that your husband did not value your marriage, and he was very willing to divorce. I think that's obvious.

You were the one who took it off topic.

That's right. The purpose of Marriage Builders is to build marriages to last a lifetime.

That's more like it.

When did I reject the MB program? I made attempts to meet his emotional needs when he got back home but he rejected everything.... I am not the one who made my husband join the military. How am I supposed to make love deposits when he is on a deployment and separated from me and refuses to talk to me and ignores me because he wants to spend time with the AP. I am not allowed to be on a deployment with him. I asked my husband whether or not I am meeting his emotional needs and he confirmed that I am capable of meeting his emotional needs. He told me the problem is not with me but with him. In fact, he told the bar girl that he has a great marriage.

Here, for example:

You were arguing with posters who said that spouses cannot make each other happy if they do not live together. You rejected the idea that happiness is the purpose of marriage. However, that idea is at the heart of Marriage Builders.

DINGDINGDINGDING!! That is the point. You can't meet his needs when you are separated. This is why divorce is epidemic in military marriages. Your husband fell out of love. If you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to repeat them.

Marriage Builders has specific recommendations for a woman whose husband won't do the program.

I did not say that happiness is not the purpose of marriage. I said that each person should be happy on their own in the marriage and his/her spouse should enrich and add to their individual happiness. However, if a person is not happy with who they are and what they have achieved in life, they will associate it with their marriage. This is my case. My husband has no passion, no interests, no direction in life. Because of this he feels unaccomplished. Is this my fault? No. Because he is not happy with who he is and where he is in life and does not know what he wants to do with his life, he associates it with our marriage and me when in reality I have always being supportive of him and telling him he needs to try different things and figure out what he likes. That is why he tells me that he thinks that he will be more productive being singe. Now, by divorcing me he automatically takes a different step and taking action to him means that he is making a change. Because he associates his unhappiness with out marriage he believes that getting out of the marriage is a positive step and will make him happy. But he will soon realize that the problem was with him and not our marriage.

What does that mean, Melody? That basically I should not marry a serviceman in the future?

Markos, where can I read about all this?

The problem with your marriage is really much simpler than you realize. Your husband has fallen out of love with you and as such, no longer realizes any happiness in his marriage. He fell out of love because you did not live together. The romantic love in a marriage cannot be sustained if the couple does not live together. It really is that simple.

People who are in love do not get divorced.

I strongly recommend that you take the time to educate yourself about the dynamics of marriage so you don't make the same mistakes in your next marriage. You are not very objective about your own situation, and that is understandable.

It means that you should not marry anyone in the future with whom you cannot live 100% of the time. That is just ONE of many criteria, but it is a key one. It is what wrecked your marriage.

Right here on the forum posters like MelodyLane, SugarCane, and my wife Prisca and many others will be happy to help you learn and implement those recommendations. You can also get them from Dr. Harley on his radio show.

1. You argue that if a person gets married to make themselves happy, their marriage will end in divorce.
2. You support your argument with your own experience -- you did not get married to make yourself happy.
3. Your experience does not actually support your argument. Your marriage is ending in divorce.

The problem is not that people get married for the wrong reasons. It is not because of some culture that supports divorce. The problem is marriages that are not integrated, where each spouse lives their own lives, and have very poor boundaries. We know what the problem is. It's very solvable.

I understand this. Then how do I still love my husband? Why did I not fall out of love? All I can say is I was planning my future with him and looking forward to him coming back from the deployment while I kept busy with school and work. So basically I thought about him every day and that was enough to sustain my love for him. He could have done the same. He introduced a third person who met all his needs - that's why he fell out of love. I did not introduce another person and that's why I did not fall out of love because I was thinking about my husband the whole time.

Do I need to point out that he does not love you? You are getting divorced. Your living situation did not support a marriage. So, your theory of marriage did not work for you. I don't think you are looking at this logically. You can't argue that your way works when you are getting divorced and your husband has told you very clearly that he is not in love with you.

He probably did a good enough job meeting your needs in the past that your lovebank was very full. Typically people who fall in love, stay in love around 5 years and then the lovebank goes dry if it is not continually filled. This is why most long distance relationships don't last. You would have eventually fallen out of love because your lovebank was not filled.

His lovebank just went dry faster than yours. And here you are today. Getting divorced.

No, I do not argue point 1. I am saying that if a person is inherently unhappy and thinks that marriage will solve whatever problems that cause their unhappiness, then the person will not solve their problems when they are married. For example, if a person feels unaccomplished, it is because of an external factor (may be no desire to study to get education and get a better paying job rather than working as a waiter/waitress, etc.) and the marriage is not going to fix that problem nor the spouse will. Point number 3 does confirm what I say because I do not ask for a divorce. My husband does want a divorce because apparently he is not happy with the marriage because in reality he is not happy with himself. Finally, I really do think that because divorce is more acceptable in a society then one would not think twice before doing it. I agree with the boundaries. I think this is the main point in my case - husband had poor boundaries.

Actually, not. There was a period of five years in which he did not do anything with himself and he actually did not work for a couple of years and also I was supporting us financially for some time. He was not even looking for a job actively. He was very depressed and clingy and insecure - he had a couple of low paying jobs, went back to school, tried different programs, wasted money on school, dropped again out of school, refused to work while in school. There is no way I would have had kids back then. We were so unstable financially. During this time he did not do a good job meeting most of my emotional needs. I felt I was the man of the family and his mom. I did not feel like a wife equal to him. People were wondering why I was still married to him. I just believed that that was a period during which he was depressed and had faith that it would go away when he finds a job and it did. I also felt empathy for him. There was a period during which I felt resentment but later things improved. But I never really considered I would divorce him. So yes, there was nothing left in my love bank but I stuck to our marriage and then things improved, he got back in the military, that gave him a sense of direction, he stopped being depressed and I felt better because he was happier.

But that doesn't make any sense. If he were unhappy with himself he would have no reason to leave the marriage. People who are simply unhappy don't get divorced. But people who fall out of love do get divorced. Your husband does not want the marriage because he is not happy in your marriage because he is not in love.

A romantic passionate relationship obviously brings great happiness to the participants. If your H were in love with you, he would not be leaving the marriage.

Does this count when we already started the divorce process?

Actually he DID if you are still in love with him as you claim. Otherwise you couldn't be in love with him. So either you are not being honest about being in love or he did a good job somehow filling your lovebank. The proof is in the pudding.

Ok so he told me that he does not want to be married because he wants to be single and not have responsibility towards anyone as this makes his life simpler but also because he does not love me. I asked him what if he still loved me, he said still he would probably divorce me because he does not want to be married. He probably does not know the real reason he is divorcing me. He just gives me the answer "I want to be single."

He is not in love with you. If he was in love he wouldn't "want to be single."

I thought your husband left?

I guess I just try to see the good things in him and make myself love him and imagine our future together. I don't know. I guess I am not a high maintenance woman so he does not have to make many deposits for me to be happy. He may not do anything for me but give me freedom to be who I am and follow my interests and passions which is easy for him to do because we are separated, I am fine. This is what I need. Of course, I do not like the fact that we are separated but I understand I have to do this sacrifice as a military spouse.

With regard to the emotional needs: financial support - I support myself financially and I am not dependent on him, he does not really show admiration or appreciation to me often, affection and attention - whatever he was getting is whatever I was getting; in the past few years, however, I have been the one who was putting in a lot more effort into our relationship compared to him, conversation - again this is mutual, family commitment - mutual, honesty and openness - mutual, sexual fulfillment - mutual, physical attraction and recreational companionship - both mutual. The only difference is he had poor boundaries while deployed and let the bar girl most of these needs and he fell in love with her. I asked him why he thinks I cannot meet his emotional needs and he told me that I can meet them; he told me that he has told the bar girl that we have a great marriage and it would be stupid of him to divorce me. However, he said that once the AP tried to get pregnant from him, that is when he detached from me emotionally because he felt that the affair was real at that point and at that point he stopped seeing future with me. Just the idea that she could be pregnant at this point would have changed his life. It is after this when he started actively trying to get her pregnant. And it is around this time when I observed a complete change in his behavior and when I felt him completely detached. He tells me he is not with her anymore, that he is heartbroken, and that he still loves her. He was so cold towards me and had such animosity towards me this week that honestly I do not think that he stopped communicating with her. I thought he would stay two weeks here and I asked him if he would like to do some recreational activities together as I was trying to meet some emotional needs but he did not give me any time. He even stayed locked in one of the rooms and interacted with me only about divorce. If he thought that I was trying to do something that would make him question his decision to divorce me he would prevent it intentionally. So there was no way for me to do anything to meet his emotional needs.

He did - yesterday.

Romantic love is an emotional reaction, not a conscious decision. Caring love is a conscious decision, though, and I think that is what you describe here.


What you say here reflects the feelings of a checked out spouse who lives an independent life. Needing the "freedom to be who I am and follow my interests" is not something that a woman in a romantic, integrated relationship would say. That is obviously not an "emotional need" in the context we use here because it is not something that your spouse can meet. An emotional need is something your spouse meets that creates an incredible attraction. Leading a separate lifestyle does create romantic love, it diminishes it.


The new love gave him a new point of comparison and he knew he was not in love. He was detached because of the lack of connection with you due to the separation.

I guess you are right. I feel a void when he is gone on a deployment but I also do make a conscious choice to love him. So I am not sure if this void is due to a romantic love.

Ok, so for me to feel fulfilled, I have to have both an integrated relationship and independent life. I guess what I mean is as long as I am in an integrated relationship in which my husband would let me be who I am and follow my interests and passions I am fine. The fact of the matter is I have always tried to involve my husband in my projects and activities, because I want to share them with him, and many times we do things together but some times we do not. Just depends on the activities. Generally, most activities he does, I enjoy. But he for example does not agree with the fact that I have to continue my education and that has been bothering him. He thinks I should get a job and stop school. This now is something I would not do to my spouse. I would not try to stop him from working for the military although we might be separated. This is the point at which independent lifestyle comes in in terms of doing things that matter to you that your spouse should appreciate and be open to you doing them if that makes you happy.

I told him that and asked him if he would like to make changes so he can fall back in love with me and he said he does not want to do anything. So he does not want to give us and our marriage any chance.

That is a contradiction in terms. An independent lifestyle is the antithesis of an integrated relationship.


In a healthy marriage, we find interests and passions that we BOTH share. If you enjoy something MORE than your marriage, it will eventually come between you. Your spouse should be your greatest passion.


What you describe is exactly how couples fall out of love. When you make decisions that make him unhappy, he eventually falls out of love. The policy of joint agreement avoids this by teaching you to never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse.

Anyway, if you want to find out how to create a happy, integrated marriage you can read up on it in His Needs, Her Needs.

We have a lot of common interests we share. No, I do not enjoy something more than our marriage. I make my husband a priority. However, I would not stop my husband from doing something he likes even though I might not agree with it. I will compromise because that would make him happy. So essentially, I am still agreeing with his decision and I am happy with my choice because I know he will be happy. In his case, he obviously still holds grudges I was not aware of because he does not agree with some of my choices.

I will buy the book and read it. Thank you.

My husband would not need to "STOP" me from doing something that made him unhappy because my marriage means too much. I would not DO something that made him unhappy because I don't want him to be unhappy. It is a stupid strategy.


Sacrificing your happiness for the happiness of your spouse is a win/lose proposition that leads to incompatibility. In Marriage Builders, we learn to create win/win decisions. If your spouse does something that makes you unhappy you will eventually fall out of love. This is how incompatibility is created.

But you can learn new habits if you study the MB program.

Needinput- You need to stop trying to jump to conclusions and start concentrating on learning Marriage Builders principles, instead. All of us first came here as ignorant folks with marriages in crisis. We had to learn. So do you. There are no extra points for being right all the time. This is not a debate forum.

Marriage Builders has a wealth of information available for free. Avail yourself of the opportunity to learn. Get the radio show app and start listening every day. Explore the website. Improve your understanding so you can learn from your past mistakes.

I am not trying to debate. I guess this is my way of saying what I typically do and what my approach is, and when someone gives me their opinion I see a different side to it I have not seen before. What I am doing is not about trying to be right.

Markos mentioned I can start the MB program even if my husband does not want to. What does that mean? Is it possible to reverse the situation? He already filed for divorce. What specifically should I be doing at this time?

I have been listening to the MB radio show. I have been reading on this website.

I am not arguing my way works. Obviously, it does not. This is not MY way, I believe BOTH of us have contributed to this in one way or another. However, he is not willing to work on this while I am. That is what is bothering me. He is not the one sitting in a forum all day trying to figure out what to do next or what went wrong, it is me doing that. For him, it is very easy to turn his back on our relationship. If I were in his position and if I knew I did not love him any more, I would try to understand why and would put an effort to fix it if possible because of commitment. He does not want to put any effort into it because it is much easier to start all over saying there are many fish out there. If I were him I would think really hard why in the first place I married him. I would not be making comments about having so many options of other women out of respect for the person I lived with so many years no matter whether I am in love with him or not.

Markos, where can I read about all this? [/quote]

Right here on the forum posters like MelodyLane, SugarCane, and my wife Prisca and many others will be happy to help you learn and implement those recommendations. You can also get them from Dr. Harley on his radio show. [/quote]

Could you please let me know what exactly I have to do next? What are these recommendations?

I agree and that is why I am bothered - because he knows it is a problem of separation and he decides not to work on it but get a divorce while he was (and probably is) still doing everything possible to continue his long distance relationship with the bar girl who is thousands of miles away. Does he think he would be able to maintain connection with her? How long do these long distance emotional affairs last?

The MB plan for women in your situation is to:

1. Give him a Plan B letter
2. Cut off all contact
3. Shut down any avenue of contact he might have to you (change phone number, email addresses, etc)
4. Get educated and learn what the mistakes were in your marriage so that you do not repeat them

Have you read this?
How to Plan B Correctly