Hi, I will try to keep this short. What I am asking are your thoughts on what has recently transpired between my FWH and a potential inappropriate relationship.
I survived on this forum between 2003 and 2005, maybe longer. My H and I made it though recovery, and all had been well until 2014. I'm not sure why my initial login name is different now.
Brief background. We have our own business which I manage. I have total access to his cell phone records, texts, email, and client records because I need to be able to communicate to our clients on his behalf.
We met the potential OW when she registered for a class he was teaching. She went on to schedule an appointment with him because she needed help beyond what she learned in class.
Nothing unusual until 2015. I started seeing a change in tone in their email exchanges. Not everything in the emails were copied into her client file by him and I became alarmed at the enthusiastic banter that seemed to be ongoing that wasn't showing up in her file.
I confronted my H and told him that I was having flashbacks to his 1st affair because he seemed to be relaxing his boundaries with her and letting her in emotionally. Side note - his favorite celebrity body type is Kelly Ripa. This client isn't glamorous, but she is very lean like Kelly Ripa.
He responded beautifully the best I could hope for and said he would stop that kind of communication with her. He saw her periodically with months gaps between their appointments. Yet every time after an appointment a lot of email exchanges with enthusiastic emotions/banter.
I didn't say anything deciding instead to watch things unfold closely. In 2016 her appointments became more frequently because her cat was getting sicker. In 2017 he saw her for a late appointment that he has never done for anyone else, and he didn't charge her.
He had a story blah, blah, blah. More frequent phone calls,cat gets sicker. During one evening phone call I sat down nearby and watched him. He became uncomfortable and when he hung up I had a meltdown.
No proof, so there was nothing to confront. I came to realize that most of my problem is that I was so blindsided by the 1st affair, that I lost faith in my instincts to see reality.
My question to all of you is, do you think I have reason for concern, or am I over reacting.
Lastly when it was time to euthanize her cat, I knew he would do it, but I was shocked to find out he agreed to do it in a house call. I freaked out again; major flashback from previous affair. The housecall was 2 days ago. He's been acting strangely since then, but he did move her file to inactive status.
There is no reason they should be in contact going forward, and I have seen no evidence they have been in communication.
My plan is to take a wait and see approach; but I am flipping from relief she might be out of our life, and panic that she might not be. It's disturbing to see him acting sad/depressed, yet trying to put on a show of "all is well".
Ugh, this isn't so short after all. Any perspective is greatly appreciated.
Welcome back to MB (I'm sorry to say!)
You don't need a reality check; you need proof. I'm sorry that you didn't handle this better when he was in open contact with this woman. What you should have done months ago is ask him to stop having anything to do with this woman: not because you were having flashbacks to his first affair, but just because. If you are uncomfortable with your husband's interaction with ANY woman, you need to ask him to stop interacting with her, and he needs to agree.
He shouldn't have had anything to do with her after you asked him to stop the banter, in 2016. If he had done that, the house call would never have taken place. Since he's acting 'sad/depressed', it is clear that something went on.
You already have access to his email, so he won't use that channel of communication. You need to get hold of his phone and put spyware on it, and you can also hide a voice-activated recorder somewhere in the car, where he might have phone conversations with her.
In future, and for anyone else reading this, a spouse needs to ask for all contact with someone that makes them uncomfortable to stop, completely. Do not wait and watch your spouse, testing to see where things go from the first stages of banter. We are not trying to catch them when it happens. We know that all of us would have affairs if we allow ourselves to be in risky situations. We need to prevent the affairs by removing the risky situations - i.e. private conversations and private meetings.
Hi SugarCane, thanks so much for your advice. It didn't occur to me to ask for a no-contact with her at that point in 2016. I will do so now when we get together this evening.
What if he says no?
Just asking will help me feel like I am getting my personal power back. I have been a puddle over this. Normally I am resourceful, resilient, and tenacious.
I have access to all call/text logs business and personal cell. I check them often and her number doesn't show up.
I have email logs of their emails all the way back to 2014, but I want to save them to a back up.
He doesn't know/understand call logs; he's not tech savy and it has always bored him since I handle that part of our business.
Thank you again for being here for me. No one can possibly understand like Mbers can. Blessings to you.
Hi SugarCane, thanks so much for your advice. It didn't occur to me to ask for a no-contact with her at that point in 2016. I will do so now when we get together this evening. What if he says no?
STOP. Do not ask him this now. If you do, you will put him on alert and he will hide whatever evidence the "affair" that exists.
I know I said you should have asked for this last year, but that was before it was clear that something had happened. Now it is clear that something has happened, and this is because of his making a house call - something that sounds as if it is unusual - and his appearing to be depressed about something.
I think you need to find out what happened, and you DON"T want to put him on alert that you are on to him - not now. Use a VAR to find evidence. Even if you ask him to do this now, I highly doubt that he will never contact her again, just because the cat is finally no more. There is a lot more to this than a dying cat.
You need to go into secret spy mode. Put a keylogger on his phone and computer because he is likely contacting her in a way that won't show on the phone records or bills. Messages in apps won't show up if he erases them.
You already know he went too far with this woman. Now you need to find the evidence. Snoop.
Also, why didn't you go on the house call with him?
Lucky, these forums have changed greatly since you posted here regularly, over 10 years ago. What has changed is that advice is given only in accordance with what we've learned from Dr Harley - from his books and articles, from listening to the daily radio show, and from the advice he gives in the private forum for those who have done the online course.
If, all those yeas ago, you had been given the advice we now insist on, about extraordinary precautions, you would have insisted on a transparent marriage from then on, and if your husband had refused this, you would have separated from him. There is no way he would have been able to have email banter with this woman right under your nose, because the moment you saw this happening you would have asked for no contact. If he had refused (to answer your earlier question), you would have shown him the door.
This forum focuses a great deal on the prevention of affairs through having an integrated, transparent marriage. No area of one spouse's life is allowed to be secret for the other, and that includes working relationships. That isn't to say that affairs, including workplace affairs, are impossible, but it does mean that a spouse cannot drift into an affair that starts as a friendship, as almost all affairs do.
It is unusual (in my experience) for a spouse to have had the open access to emails that you had, and for an "affair" still to have developed. Workplace affairs usually flourish because one spouse does not know that these emails (or lunches of coffee meetings) are taking place. In your case, it seems that you did not feel that you could follow through on your discomfort and ask for the contact to stop altogether.
Here is some advice from Dr Harley, who posted to a woman the private forum. She was unhappy with her husband's justification of his allegedly platonic friendships with women:
Extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair are essential for surviving an affair because they help the unfaithful spouse avoid temptation to have another affair, and they also provide comfort for the betrayed spouse, knowing that the risk of another affair is low. Unfaithful spouses may have a pretty good idea of what has tempted them in the past, so they can come up with some of the precautions. But it's usually the betrayed spouses that identify most of them because they know what makes them comfortable. In the case of friendships with those of the opposite sex, most unfaithful spouses don't think it's necessary, but betrayed spouses almost always think it's necessary to avoid an affair.
I side with the betrayed spouses on this topic, not only because it makes them feel safer knowing that their unfaithful spouses are at a safe emotional distance from those of the opposite sex, but also because I know for a fact that most affairs begin as friendships of the opposite sex. By eliminating those friendships completely, affairs are much less likely.
But avoiding friendships of the opposite sex does more than reduce the likelihood of an affair. It also makes a spouse more attractive to the unfaithful spouse. With the spouse as the only friendship of the opposite sex, the most important emotional needs met by the opposite sex are then met exclusively by the spouse. It's the contrast effect in action. You do a much better job meeting your husband's emotional needs when competition has been eliminated.
Avoiding friendships of the opposite sex is a small price to pay for those who have had an affair. But for those of us that have never had an affair, I feel that it's an essential ingredient in a romantic and affair-proof marriage. I have worked with hundreds of women during my lifetime, and I certainly don't avoid talking to them. But none of them rise to the level of what I would call a friend, someone I share personal experiences with, and with which we have a mutually caring relationship. And if Joyce ever feels threatened by any of these women, my relationship with them ends completely. It's what makes her feel safe, and makes me a thoughtful husband.
Dr. Harley
As you can see, your feeling of discomfort should have been enough for him to have terminated this contact immediately. As I said, for those reading along, you need to ask explicitly for an end to any relationships that make you uncomfortable. You do not need to be logical and rational about it; your discomfort should be enough for your spouse to act - because they care about you - and if it isn't, you need to act on this - i.e. separate from him or her.
Wow you all have written some powerful stuff. Reminds me of how much H and I have forgotten. This is a good wake up call. The 1st affair D-day happened 2003 when he could no longer live with the dishonesty/guilt.
He sat me down and told me everything about his affair. He had previously found one of Dr. Harley's books in the waiting room of a doctor's office, read some, then bought his own copy. He knew what he had to do. That's why he came clean on d-day. He said, "I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage".
I read Dr. Harley's book that he had, bought all the rest of them and my whatever it takes was counseling with Dr. Harley. We went through all of it. Dr. Harley guidance saved our marriage and made it better.
We continued working Dr. Harley's program for several years until we felt we were doing it naturally, so no need for a formal structure.
Now I see how far we've fallen. You're all right in what you're saying. It resonates with me; it's all coming back.
I won't ask for no contact SugarCane, I see your point. I believe the place for us to start is extraordinary precautions. Bless you SugarCane for posting Dr. Harley's article. I now remember it well.
You're right, there's more to this than a dying cat. He has great need for admiration; that came out when we first filled out emotional needs. We learned that he needed to be aware of his unrealistic need for admiration because that leads him down the wrong path.
We also learned that the more successful he is, for some reason the greater his need was for admiration. His need was beyond what one person (me) could give him naturally. A black hole that couldn't be filled from the outside from other's admiration, but instead needed to be filled from the inside of himself.
And when a pretty woman gives him admiration it's addictive.
This came up not long ago in a different context. He won a big contract that will be life changing. He asked me to help him deal reasonably with his emotions, because we both remember that a past big success in 2001 intertwined with his first affair.
What I didn't connect until today with all of your help, is that it's his need for admiration that partly at the root of this.
To answer apples123 question, he actually did invite me to come. I declined. He also said her mother would be there.
I am so grateful to all of you. I am feeling some peace knowing I have a sense of direction. I think this current story will come out during the extraordinary precautions discussion.
I am going to give this a few days then open extraordinary precautions discussion with him. I agree with SugarCane, I don't think he will be in contact with her - but there might be a next person and a next time if we don't get back on track with our MB work. I still have my notebook.
There aren't words to express my gratitude to all of you.
I agree with SugarCane, I don't think he will be in contact with her -
That's not what I said! I said the direct opposite:
Even if you ask him to do this now, I highly doubt that he will never contact her again, just because the cat is finally no more. There is a lot more to this than a dying cat.
It's my tortured British English - that was a double negative. I am saying that I feel strongly that he WILL be in contact with her - hence my advice to stop asking question but definitely to spy, instead.
Hardly anyone ends an affair cleanly. There is always lingering contact. She will be upset, and will keep calling to see if she can get him back...or something else will be happening. This has not ended yet - not with things coming to a head only two days ago.
Are you going to place a keylogger on his phone and VAR where he may be speaking to her?
Ooh, I see what you said now. I think I read what I wanted to read as well. I will do spy mode and I will stop asking questions.
I really thought this would be a dead issue once the cat was gone. There is no reason for legitimate contact now. My thought that day was to watch his behavior behavior after he got back. He was not normal, nor has he been since. I've had that kicked in the stomach feel.
One more flashback. I forgot how count-intuitive this process is.
I don't feel out of control anymore.
...I read Dr. Harley's book that he had, bought all the rest of them and my whatever it takes was counseling with Dr. Harley. We went through all of it. Dr. Harley guidance saved our marriage and made it better.
How did you counsel with Dr Harley? he doesn't normally do direct counselling. His son Steve does the telephone counselling, while Dr Harley oversees what in your day would have been the course after the Weekend Seminar. Did you go on the Seminar?
I won't ask for no contact SugarCane, I see your point. I believe the place for us to start is extraordinary precautions.
I only advised you not to ask for no contact
today, because you need to spy on him instead, and you don't want to put him on alert. By no means did I intend for you to drop that demand altogether. You need to ask for this, but later down the line.
You're right, there's more to this than a dying cat. He has great need for admiration; that came out when we first filled out emotional needs. We learned that he needed to be aware of his unrealistic need for admiration because that leads him down the wrong path.
We also learned that the more successful he is, for some reason the greater his need was for admiration. His need was beyond what one person (me) could give him naturally. A black hole that couldn't be filled from the outside from other's admiration, but instead needed to be filled from the inside of himself.
Who told you this? Did Dr Harley say it directly? I'm a bit surprised, as he tends not to judge emotional needs as "unrealistic". They just are. Was it, perhaps, other posters on the forum that told you this?
Perhaps Dr Harley did say that to you back then, but didn't he also say that this was a need that you, his wife, should try to meet, and that your husband needed to be aware...not so much of his unrealistic expectations, but of his vulnerabilities, and that he needed to keep his defences high?
And when a pretty woman gives him admiration it's addictive.
This is what he needs to keep his defences high against. However, I don't think this demonstrates an excessive need in your husband. We are all wired for affairs, and we can all have them if another person successfully meets our most important needs - whatever they are.
And most of us would love to be flattered and admired. We don't have to have an excessive need to be vulnerable to that.
This came up not long ago in a different context. He won a big contract that will be life changing. He asked me to help him deal reasonably with his emotions, because we both remember that a past big success in 2001 intertwined with his first affair.
What I didn't connect until today with all of your help, is that it's his need for admiration that partly at the root of this.
It's not his emotions that he needs your help with, but his personal extraordinary precautions. He needs to let you see every aspect of his interactions with other women. He wouldn't flirt with another woman right in front of your face, would he? Well then: if you are there, and watching, even when you are not there (as it were), he won't do things that hurt you.
One more thing SugarCane - you said
"Hardly anyone ends an affair cleanly. There is always lingering contact. She will be upset, and will keep calling to see if she can get him back...or something else will be happening. This has not ended yet - not with things coming to a head only two days ago."
That was the case in the 1st affair. We sent Dr. Harley's no contact letter and she ignored it. Dr. Harley gave me the go ahead to contact her directly by sending her a letter. In it I told her that if she did not stop trying to contact WH, I would send a copy of the no contact letter to her mother.
I have this person's mother's name as well if I need to go that route. It worked with the 1st OW.
Do you think you could find an old thread with you story on it, and link it here, please?
I see your post. It was Steve Harley we worked with, phone counseling. I thought Steve had a PhD.
"Who told you this? Did Dr Harley say it directly? I'm a bit surprised, as he tends not to judge emotional needs as "unrealistic". They just are. Was it, perhaps, other posters on the forum that told you this?"
Unrealistic was my word. It felt unrealistic to me.
"Perhaps Dr Harley did say that to you back then, but didn't he also say that this was a need that you, his wife, should try to meet, and that your husband needed to be aware...not so much of his unrealistic expectations, but of his vulnerabilities, and that he needed to keep his defences high?" Yes exactly you are correct
"It's not his emotions that he needs your help with, but his personal extraordinary precautions. He needs to let you see every aspect of his interactions with other women. He wouldn't flirt with another woman right in front of your face, would he? Well then: if you are there, and watching, even when you are not there (as it were), he won't do things that hurt you."
We had a similar discussion before the cat died after I was sitting listening to his end of the conversation with her. In essence I told him my hope was that he would treat OW the same as he would like other men to treat me. And the way OW treated him is how he would like for me to treat other men.
You say it better.
Apple123 Yes it sure is! Wonderful
OMG I am going to cry. There it is. Thank you.
Hi Apples, is there somewhere on this site that tells how to do this? What is a VAR?
I'm ready to read about it; not sure if I'm ready to do it.
Apples, thank you for the gift of my previous self. I wonder where the rest of the posts are. Wow
Var is voice activated recorder. Look in the Operation Investigate forum for more tips.
Don't be scared. You have the right to know what is happening in your own life. Investigate.
If you don't investigate now, you may lose the elemaent of surprise.
Apples, thank you for the gift of my previous self. I wonder where the rest of the posts are. Wow
Go to that thread and click on the name CSue - it is a link. Choose "view posts" from the drop-down menu: all your posts appear, all 1,781 of them. Choose "topics created", at the top of the page, if you want to find the threads you started that probably contain your story.
Here
Recording Equipment Are you planning to put spyware on all his devices?
CSue--
!!! I'm so sorry you're back here for more troubles, but I've wondered for years how you were and how you were doing. I'm glad I stuck around long enough to "see" you again.
tl
Hi thndrnitng, I remember you and Neak. I saw from my previous me, that my dates and times are a bit off. It's been longer ago than I thought. I'm glad you stuck around too. I remember how rewarding it was to help others here.
Things have evolved here as one would expect over this long of a period of time. I don't remember the emphasis on stealth, spyware etc. Then note the topic of my thread "No Proof". Hah!
What hasn't changed is the enormous support I'm finding here and how universal the experience.
I'm need to read tons here and find my way. Tomorrow's a busy day so not sure if I can update tomorrow. I'm too numb to update my evening.
This is a very different experience than what I had the first time. I will call it a win that I did not demand no contact. We were both very polite yet awkward at dinner tonight. So weird. It felt like a blind date. Tomorrow we're going skiing.
Reading back on my previous thread has been a trip. I've forgotten so much. It's incredible to read my own words/experience. Thank you for caring
I was reading your first thread. Did you ever expose his affair? Tell your children?
CSue!
Sorry to find you on here and not a happier place to be. Your WH was already far, far past appropriate the very first time he allowed banter to take place. By the time you expressed your discomfort, and he didn't immediately and voluntarily cut this woman off, he indicated how deep the A already was. (Even if it still was an EA at that time, which is unlikely.)
What are your WH's other two top EN's besides Admiration? Alongside your spy plan, you should work to meet his top EN's as part of a Plan A, if you're interested in salvaging your marriage.
Nobody would blame you if you didn't, and you'll get great help either way you decide. The future of your marriage is way more up to you than to him. You've got veto power. That knowledge should turn you into Wonder Woman!
Almost 16 years to the day since you first posted on here.
You've got veto power. That knowledge should turn you into Wonder Woman!
She will also loan you her cape, if you like!
tl
Hi Brainhurts, Exposure wasn't recommended, I can't remember why, but SH must have made that decision after WH and I talked with him individually on the first counseling appointment.
Neak! Big hug to you. Oh my goodness you and your mom. I can't find the words. All I can say at the moment is that you both make me smile. You have such a way with words. I had forgotten you are a writer. I can certainly see why. So glad you found this thread. I am starting to remember so much I had forgotten.
thndrnitng - I read about the cape of power. I will work up to that. One thing that is wonderful about you and Neak is that you brought your loving famillyness ( I know that's not a word) and you embrace all of us. It's like walking into your home and finding a blazing fireplace, comfy chair, chocolate chip cookies and Bailey's and Coffee. I feel so grateful.
Found my computer file on MB Version 1. I had passworded the documents, so took me awhile to put myself in my 16 year ago size shoes to remember what I might have chosen.
Sheesh Neak you are right about 16 years ago to the very month. Yikes!! Going to take me some time to digest all of this. I am starting to get some clarity.
I am relieved that I at least remembered to come back here.
Have you "been through the desert on a horse with no name?" Did you stay to see the 76 trombones in the "hip" parade? As long as you're remembering, remember this philosophy from way back then that still holds true today (some days with more difficulty than others!): No matter how many things are going wrong, no matter how bad it gets, there is something, somewhere, that's funny. Find it and laugh. It helps you cope with the rest that has no humor in it whatsoever!
tl
Thank you thrndrnlting; that'a a very nice gift today! So true
Do your kids know about his affair?
So no one knows about his affair?
Hi BrainHurts.
You're correct, no one knew, except WH, me & SH.
Hmmmm. Methinks it's almost time to change that.
Though there may not have been a need for nuclear exposure last time since the A was already over, but family exposure provides accountability.
As soon as you get the goods this time around, time to nuke. And family/close friends needs to know the full story of both A's. They've already been wounded, and don't know why, or even what exactly happened. I guarantee knowing this will answer questions for close family, especially kids.
How's the snooping going?
To update and ask a question. No keylogger or VAR at this time. No contact that I've been able to trace with his computers and cell phone.
I have continued to snoop. H is returning from a convention this evening and when I checked his cell/text records I saw a lot of activity from a different area code. This would be another possible OW
I paid an online service to give me the details of this person. I have her name and she is a verizon customer like we are.
I need to find a way to get the content of the texts. So far I haven't found a way. H is flying home and will be here around midnight.
Anyway I can get content? I printed the log and the info sheet I got.
This is what I've found on Verizon.
Step 4: Click Text Status and now you can check your text messages in the web UI. Keep in mind that the messages are stored for only 5 days.
However, there are some limitations to this service. The messages you can see are those sent only via text messages using Verizon, and you can�t go as far back in history as you would like. The only messages available to read online are those that have been sent or received within the past week. Beyond that, Verizon will not give you access to your messages.
No keylogger or VAR at this time.
Are you in need of technical help with getting them up and running? Those two things can give you everything you need. A GPS is good too if you can keep this hidden.
I've been reading the investigate thread and will figure out what to do. I am hoping if I could get content from yesterday and today's texts as proof I will know what I'm dealing with most recently.
This is what I've found on Verizon.
Step 4: Click Text Status and now you can check your text messages in the web UI. Keep in mind that the messages are stored for only 5 days.
Test everything before you put it on Wayward's phone. You absolutely to not want to show your hand. So set this service up on your own phone first. Make sure there are no alerts and that you can see what you need to see. 5 days is fine.
For some reason Waywards are addicted to text messages. Personally I think they are appalling but to each his own!
Yes I saw that too, I can't find text status. But will keep looking. It seems like that would be fast and easy.
lol I tried it on mine and I got 3 auto messages on my phone letting me know of this activity.
So If I do it on H's phone he will get the same 3 messages and I'm outted.
Here's Verizon's answer
1. Re: How do I view texts online???
Text message content and numbers are not accessible through My Verizon or any Verizon system really. The text message times and numbers are can't be 'given out' as pursuant to Customer Privacy and Customer Proprietary Network Information. Theres a special department that requires legal authority to access the contentof these text messages.
The 2 most suspicious texts were from her phone at 5:59 AM yesterday and 4:31 AM today. I don't think she was inviting him to breakfast.
Lots of others back and forth yesterday afternoon.
I am going to call for an MB phone appointment tomorrow. I think I can play it cool enough until I can get in.
Except to say I didn't play it cool enough last time. So will be real maturity on my part including self control and great acting skills.
The 2 most suspicious texts were from her phone at 5:59 AM yesterday and 4:31 AM today. I don't think she was inviting him to breakfast.
Lots of others back and forth yesterday afternoon.
I am going to call for an MB phone appointment tomorrow. I think I can play it cool enough until I can get in.
Except to say I didn't play it cool enough last time. So will be real maturity on my part including self control and great acting skills.
Why not follow MB
FIRST and save coaching for recovery? You should be focused on snooping and getting the facts first. Counseling is not going to help until you know what you are dealing with.
Can you get your hands on his phone and read his texts?
Hi ML, I have been reading the forums practically non-stop since March. I read wifedivorcing start to finish for example.
MB first is what I've been preparing myself for.
I will get a hold of his phone. I won't be sleeping well for awhile so should get a chance.
Oddly, I charge my phone and leave it in my office - don't want it to wake me up. However H's phone is attached usually very close to him even in the bathroom.
Hi ML, I have been reading the forums practically non-stop since March. I read wifedivorcing start to finish for example.
MB first is what I've been preparing myself for.
I will get a hold of his phone. I won't be sleeping well for awhile so should get a chance.
Oddly, I charge my phone and leave it in my office - don't want it to wake me up. However H's phone is attached usually very close to him even in the bathroom.
Maybe you can snag it and read his texts. Do you know his password? Is it an iphone and do you know his itunes password?
Yes, I have both his password and his itunes password.
Can you install spyware tonight frmo webwatcher?
https://webwatcher.com/ They have spyware you can install for iphones and androids.
Secondly, if you have his itunes password, you can download his entire text history into itunes.
cSue--you were one of my favorite people back in the day. Have you decided firmly exactly what you want to accomplish with your snooping and exposure. Do you want him back, even if it means being the hall monitor for the rest of his life? I'm sorry you're stuck back on the merry-go-round, but there's nothing that says you have to ride it till the end of the line. I hopd you set yourself some definite goals and stick with attaining them. I would love to see you happy again.
tl
ML
Not sure how much time I have tonight before he gets here, but I can do this. What a lovely app. It can be done remotely.
I just checked and I can enter his id and pass. I did it from his computer since he's not here yet and made sure it didn't send him an email.
Hopefully it didn't send him a text either. But I have a story if it does. I'll tell him I wanted to surprise him with new music.
I also checked what webwatcher suggested to make sure the account setting is setup for icloud storage, and it is.
Would be so wonderful if it can capture the texts from yesterday and today. I really appreciate you sending this to me ML.
Also if there are other threads like wifedivoring you can send my way I would appreciate it. I read the entire "Axe" thread as well.
tl...there aren't words. You are so kind.
Here's what I need; peace of mind which to me means no matter what, I want the truth. If this is all true, he's a serial cheater and I can't change that, only he can. And I'm not sure about that.
While reading MB since March, I've also been planning some what if's? future plans.
So relieved there's something like webwatcher. I will buy and install it tomorrow. I'm conflicted about what cc to use.
To be totally sure I won't be busted I need to get a whatever you call it card you buy at a store and load it lol. I have a business card that I manage and he rarely sees, but there is a risk since it's a business account. So can get new throw-away card tomorrow.
I am grateful for the support. I don't feel so alone. I felt panicked earlier, in a real cold sweat. Now I feel hope that I will get to the bottom of this.
Have you read this and listened to the radio clips in here?
Serial Cheaters
When you get your evidence are you ready for exposure? Do you know who the OW/s are?
BH, I need to go back and read ML's link on exposure on what to do first, but I believe I am. I will need to make some plans first.
I got H's phone just now. The times don't match up. He was two time zones away, so don't know if the Verizon log reports the time zone he was in or the time zone we live in.
Nothing at all interesting in the texts. I hope webwatcher gives me what I need to see. Tomorrow I will match up some texts he sent me with what the Verizon log shows, then I'll know.
Bh, I forgot to answer your question. Yes I know who the person is who sent the texts. I paid online to get the information for her phone number. Thanks for the link to serial cheaters.
Bh, I forgot to answer your question. Yes I know who the person is who sent the texts. I paid online to get the information for her phone number. Thanks for the link to serial cheaters.
Is she married? Did you go to her Facebook page and save a list of her contacts for exposure.
Did you get the spyware on his phone?
Hit a snag. As I was installing ww it said it needed a 2 party verification, which means I need H's phone in hand when I register.
I think he knows I had his phone the other night. It was so dark when I unplugged it from the charger I had to feel how/where he had it so that I could return it exactly as I found it as best I could.
I watched the next morning when he got up. Per his normal routine, he went to get his iphone and he stopped and paused as he looked at it. Ugh, I thought busted.
He never said anything to me, but last night he put it in a slightly different place - closer to him.
Didn't bother me because I knew I would be installing ww today. Now this!!! It's going to take a lot of luck for me to get my hands on it now. And when I do I need to be ready to do the 2 party verification.
Check his text log today, and she texted him yesterday around 3:00 PM. He didn't reply.
No sign of her on his cell phone log, just his text log. No sign of emails either.
Is he back to work? He could be calling her from work? Did you get the spyware put on?
Going to journal here a bit:
I said this previously in my thread, but it comes across as a DJ and that's not what I meant it to be:
He has great need for admiration; that came out when we first filled out emotional needs. We learned that he needed to be aware of his unrealistic need for admiration because that leads him down the wrong path.
We also learned that the more successful he is, for some reason the greater his need was for admiration. His need was beyond what one person (me) could give him naturally. A black hole that couldn't be filled from the outside from other's admiration, but instead needed to be filled from the inside of himself.
TTFG says it best here. In the serial cheater thread from TTFG on 9/21/11 He says this:
�I truely truely think that with a serial cheater, and i am not a psych, only had one class in psych 20 yrs ago in college, there is always some sort of pain in the past. Maybe I am niave in thinking this, mind you I only know 1 individual....but I know him very very well. I dont know if he can help himself, I truely think there is a void somewhere in his persona, that makes him need for anothers something......I know he loves his wife above all else and loves his family. But i think he is driven by pain, and maybe if there was a way to crack him open and make him realize what he is doing and why, what the root cause of his need. then maybe he could see it for what it is,,,pain from the past and that need to have the space filled, would be ok left unfilled....just a divot in the armor of a great person.....which i know him to be�
Well of course a wife can't admire her husband when he is allowing other women to meet his emotional needs. It's that simple.
The problem isn't the size of his need - it's his philandering.
Everybody has pain in his or her past. That is part of life.
It is one reason more not to cause other people pain.
We cannot alway do what comes natural, like killing other unnerving people in traffic, yelling at our mother-in-law, etc.
Also, it is common for people to become more narcissistic when they become more succesful and to be aware of the needs of others more when they are down. We humans are not animals though and if we want to call ourselves civilized, we have to be considerate of the needs of others.
Do not excuse or explain away bad behaviour. I am sure you go through the store and see things that you would like to have but cannot afford. But you don't steal it anyway, no matter how much you want it.
Check his text log today, and she texted him yesterday around 3:00 PM. He didn't reply.
THIS is your problem. Not some deep void or pain. Don't get distracted.
Lucky, the emotional needs, in this context, are needs that when met create romantic love. In other words, meeting his own need would not create romantic love. It would need to be met by you. Emotional needs are not unrealistic, they just ARE. Each of us has different needs, that when met, create an incredible attraction to the person who meets that need.
You don't have to be an expert in meeting every one of his top needs, just some of them, in order to create love. That being said, if you aren't spending 15-20 hours per week of UA time meeting the intimate emotional needs, the romantic threshold will never be met.
However, this is not the main issue. The issue is his inappropriate relationships with other women. I would stay focused on that for now.
Is he back to work? He could be calling her from work? Did you get the spyware put on?
Did you get the spyware put on?
People don't have affairs because they are broken or have something wrong with them.
People have affairs because the Love Bank really works: if somebody meets your emotional needs, you'll fall in love with them and go crazy for them (be in the fog). It's literally like a heroin addiction. So in order to not have affairs, married people need to not allow other people to meet their emotional needs.
Posting this real quickly so I can use it when I need it. this complicates things so will have to plan ahead if I go this route. I will be back and update when I have time. Thanks for all your support.
how to disable 2 step verification
How do I turn off two-step verification?
Sign in to your Apple ID account page.
In the Security section, Click Edit.
Click Turn Off two-step verification.
Create new security questions and verify your date of birth.
You'll get an email confirming that two-step verification for your Apple ID is off.
More Instructions:
Nothing will be recorded until you install WebWatcher on the device you want to monitor.
Installation is quick and easy, however, if you experience problems installing, we'd be more than happy to help you. Simply click the "Help" link on the left.
To install click the "Settings" link on the left and select "Downloads & Licensing." Your download and license management page will be displayed. On the right side of it, click the "Download" link to start the download process. (Note to self: I did this already BUT VERIFY)
Click the Add New iPhone/iPad icon under Available Licenses.
Enter the Apple ID & Password of the iOS device you want to monitor then click �Submit�
Check the box next to the device you want to monitor, then click �Register.�
If the device you are looking to monitor is not listed here, this means it has never backed up to iCloud. (Please see iCloud setup instructions below).
*Please note you can only monitor the number of devices for which you have purchased a license. You will need to buy a separate license for each device you want to monitor.
5. Once the device is successfully registered you can click �Request Data� under the monitored device.
Click �Request Data.� This will manually pull data from the most recent iCloud backup.
Your data has been requested successfully! You will be notified via email (the email address provided upon signup) when your data is available to view (which typically takes 1-6 hours).
NOTE TO SELF: I DO NOT WANT TO BE NOTIFIED VIA EMAIL. Follow up with ww prior to install.
VERY IMPORTANT: In order to see recorded data you will login to
https://login.webwatcher.com9. If for some reason the iCloud credentials do not work, or they do work but you are not receiving data then click HERE for our Knowledge Base article.
How do I check if iCloud is enabled on the iOS device?
Access target device > Settings > scroll down & select iCloud > scroll down & select Storage & Backup > Backup (make sure this is toggled on � toggle will be green)
Where do I locate the Apple account name (aka the Apple ID) of the device? (How do I know what my Apple account is?)
Access the target device > Settings > iCloud > Account
The Apple ID will appear next to Account
How do I get my iCloud password for my account?
To retrieve iCloud password click on the below link and proceed with the prompts (This will allow a reset of the iCloud password if you have the Apple ID)
https://iforgot.apple.com/password/verify/appleidWhere do I locate the name of my device? (i.e. in the event there are several iOS devices, such as iPhones, in the account and the cx is not sure which device is the correct one)
Access the target device > Settings > General > About > Name
The device name (i.e. �Ally�s iPhone�) will appear next to Name
Note to self: Must be on wifi. Data won't work.
I was so lost setting up webwatcher I just finally accessed the help center. They walked me thru the process and set me up. Took about 20 min is all.Well worth the call.
Good luck!
Lin, did they care that you were setting this up on an adult's phone, not a child under 18?
Nope, I told them it was my husband's computer and that I didnt have the passwords. Also that I'd be watching from my personal computer, and I had to sneak when he was out so he didn't know. They were very supportive. They waited till I called them and they had me walk thru turning on his computer and they found a way in.
Good Luck! Once it is done and you see whats there you will feel safer for sure. Either way, I've been checking for a yr now and it gives me a bit of security. We are following the online program.
Thanks Lin. That's why I decided to do the setup myself. My problem was with the 2 step verification on his iphone. I needed to disable that. From reading up on the details of that I realized they would be sending an email to H that his 2 step verification was being disabled.
I had to come up with a back story to explain that. And I'm a bad liar. So that is now done and I am registered with WW.
Apple sent a total of 4 emails to H and I had to create new security questions.
^^that was very stressful^^
Lastly I need to get his iphone on his icloud.
Note to anyone thinking of doing this. Realize apple security sends multiple emails to the person who the phone is registered to. Be prepared.