I just need to get this off my chest. I feel too humiliated to talk to any of my friends, and my best friend, my husband, is not appropriate at this point, I suspect.
We have been together for 12 years, married for 6. We have too adorable kids - 4 and 2. And this is the second time I have caught my husband having an affair.
The first time was about 7 years ago and it was a flirtation of a few months that led to one night at a hotel. We used the tools on MB, talked a lot, agreed on no contact with the lover and finally got over it. As much as one can. When I found out, I was certain we would fix it. I think I might have taken it too lightly and swept it under the rug. We didn't go to counselling and never truly dealt with any of issues that led to the affair. I think there has always been a part of me that thought it will not be the last time. I didn't snoop, nag, ask too many questions nor demanded absolute openness when it came to his phone/computer, etc. Firstly, because I thought it was humiliating. Secondly, because he found it offensive. And thirdly, because I think I never truly wanted to find out any more 'bad news'.
Life was good. We reconciled, had fun, travelled, spent all our free time together, bought a house, got married, had two kids, lived abroad. We were each-other's best friends. We have common interests and hobbies, world views and dreams. He is a great dad and a great husband (excluding this one horrible flaw of being a serial cheater). That is not to say life was all butterflies and unicorns. We are both quite unhappy with our jobs and have had a hard time finding true joy in anything recently. We have discussed it and tried to find solutions, but we agreed that it is just some form of an existential crisis - two small kids, the endless circle of chores and work and everyday issues. We hate the rut we are in, but haven't been able to change anything. Both of our cups are more than half empty and that has cause the relationship to suffer. We were kind of resigned I think. We knew things were not great with us, but neither of us did anything. Just waiting for things to get better. Magically? With the summer coming.
Three days ago I opened our laptop to my husband's Facebook message page (it was open, that is) and to his very direct message to a mutual friend - want to come over at lunch for some sex?
This time, I have no idea if we can come out of it. He claims it was just sex. I have no reason to suspect otherwise. Truly. Knowing the other woman (single, older) and having been in the same company with her and my husband many times, I believe it was indeed just sex. We haven't gone into the specifics, but I think the affair has been lasting over a year. We haven't had a very good sex-life for quite some time. From before our second kid was born. He has a much higher libido than me to begin with and for the past two years I have been neglecting him in that area even more. I just don't feel like having sex. I just can't be bothered. Sleep or books are so much more valuable and fulfilling at the moment. He claims that is the only thing that he doesn't like about our relationship. Other than that, I am still the love of his life and the only one he has ever wanted to be with.
I asked him to move out temporarily. He calls every morning and evening to talk to the kids. When they finish, we stay silent on the phone until I eventually say bye and hang up. We have had one 3-hour Facebook chat about it, because he couldn't face me. I couldn't face him either. And being open about sex has never been an easy thing for us, so not having to look at each other helped. Still, we didn't come to any conclusions, didn't make any decisions. He told me he wants to stay, that he never wanted to go anywhere, just fill this need for sex. And that now it is my decision. We haven't talked after that. I don't know if it's because he believes it will just blow over with time or because he doesn't know what to say. Or he thinks the ball is in my court and I will just decide on my own after a few days/weeks of contemplation.
How do I decide? What do I decide? My dignity or my family? My self respect or my best friend? How many times do you let someone do that to you before you decide to walk. I cannot imagine my life, our lives, without him. Looking at my kids tears me apart. And what reason do I have to believe that things will be any different this time? Walk away now, while I still have time to build a new life for myself? Or stay and hope for the best, that we will not find ourselves in the same situation 10 or 15 years from now, when it is too late for a new beginning? I don't want to give up on us, but I am not sure we can get out of this one together...

HI Hannah, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. We can help you turn your marriage around if you and your husband are willing to follow the necessary steps to a) affair proof your marriaeg and b) create a romantic relationship.

A couple of things stand out that I wanted first address. First off, your husband did not have an affair because of a lack of sex. He had an affair because he has poor boundaries around women and allowed someone else to meet his needs. Unless he makes a radical change in his approach to the opposite sex, this will happen again. I promise you.

A good marriage is not a matter of luck or magic, but a matter of design. We can help you learn those steps.

The reason you have not wanted to have sex with him is because you are not emotionally attached to him anymore. He has not been meeting your needs. A woman's lack of interest in sex is due to the poor state of the marriage. If he had meeting your needs successfully you wouldn't be saying that you find sleep and reading more fulfilling. The greatest problem here is his failure to meet YOUR NEEDS.

With that out of the way, there is a very narrow path to recovery after an affair. Most people don't make it because they dont' follow these steps. Most of us here have recovered our marriages and have happy romantic marriages. We can help you do this if you and your husband are willing to diligently follow this program. Basically, it comes down to this:

here

I will post the affair recovery checklist in the next post.

I would rethink your attitude about snooping because it is not healthy for marriages. It is not a lack of trust that ruins marriages, but a lack of boundaries. You should have full access to everything and if he objects, that is a HUGE RED FLAG. Blind trust is bad for marriages, period. So this is an attitude that must change if you want to have a successful marriage.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Welcome to MB. I am sorry for what you are going through.

You are right that your WH is a serial cheater. Although it is possible to have 2 affairs without a serial cheating mentality, I do not think that is the case with your WH. I am basing this on the fact that it seems he actively seeks out these affairs, as opposed to just having poor boundaries and allowing others to meet his needs until he finds himself involved. He also seems to have a sense of entitlement about his affairs, that because he is not getting his SF need met at home, he is entitled to seek it elsewhere. These are characteristics of a serial cheater mentality.

Unfortunately, this is a VERY difficult problem to have. Serial cheaters will cheat if they have the chance. They will *actively seek affairs* if they have a chance. So the only option to stay in a marriage with a serial cheater, and not be cheated on again, is to take away their chance to cheat, to make it impossible for them to ever have another affair. This means complete transparency for life, knowing where he is at all times , having snooping methods in place to monitor him, etc. I know you have two young children with him, but I would think long and hard about whether you want to spend the rest of your life this way.

You did brush the last affair under the rug. It will be easy to do this again. I would bet money that these two affairs are not the only ones he has had already, and I guarantee you there will be more.

In addition to the EP's that Melody Lane posted to you, I would require him to take a polygraph as a condition of recovering your marriage.

I am very concerned there are other infidelities you do not know about.

When it comes to wayward husbands, Dr Harley advises that he must come back 'hat in hand' and willing to do whatever is needed to recover the marriage. The way you describe how your WH is responding to you finding out about his (second) affair is not hat in hand at all. He is showing no remorse or effort to recover your marriage or win you back. Would you say this is an accurate statement? Did he willingly participate in recovery the first time, or was it your job to drive the recovery bus? This will not work to recover your marriage.

This is the time for you to set your standards high, my friend.

]
If this is what he wants in your marriage, he will need to do a better job of meeting your needs and affair proofing your marriage. If you just have sex with him without his making those changes, I promise you will develop an aversion. There is a reason you don't feel like having sex with him, and that is because he is not fulfilling YOU.

Did you know that?

I agree with this. There may be more that you don't know about.

Thanks for your input!
I think I agree with the fact that has was intentionally seeking those affairs. I think I agree that there have been others.

There are some steps you suggested I am not ok with, however.
- exposing the affair to everyone we know. It is humiliating for me. If we decide to stay together and work for it, it would be humiliating to have people know about what he did. Humiliating for me. Isn't the general consensus that betrayed spouses should have enough dignity and self respect to leave?
- demanding no contact. I know this is the pillar for reconciliation advocated on MB and my reasoning sounds absurd to most. But the thing is, we share a hobby (more like a lifestyle) that consumes most of our free time. Almost all weekends for 6 months a year. This is the one thing that gives us both most joy in life. This is the group where all our friends are. And this is also the group where the OW is. All of us are the core part of the organisation and none of us can really just up and leave. I understand that there are people who move and change jobs and leave groups of friends, but honestly, if I took that lifestyle/hobby away from me and my WH, I would take away the source of happiness from both of us. This is not something I can or am willing to do. It is not that the 'hobby' is more important than our marriage, this is part of the foundation of our marriage.
And I'm not sure it would eventually make any difference. There was no contact with the 1st AP, and he still found someone new. So even if there could be NC with this one, that alone will not keep him from continuing.

As for his remorse and coming to me 'hat in hand', I'm not sure. I think he is truly embarrassed and sad. But I also think he doesn't consider what he did to be as painful and humiliating for me as it is. And I do not know how to make him see it. I can talk endlessly about my pain and disgust and disappointment, but I'm not sure he will get it.

What now? Do I initiate contact to talk things through and see where we stand and where we can go from here? Or do I wait for him to make the first move?

Is there ANY hope left? I DO NOT want to break up our family! I am just SO sad...

I would just point out how irrational this sounds. Your marriage has crumbled, it is utterly wrecked right now, so there is no foundation. Divorce does not make people happy. You are headed to divorce if he doesn't end contact with the OW and end any activities that have led to the environment that led to the affair.

If you don't find a new foundation - and FAST - you won't have a marriage. In order to recover your marriage, you and your husband must make a radical change in your marriage. Doing the same things will result in more of the same.


What now is to either follow those steps or move forward with your life. You don't need to "talk," you need to follow a plan of recovery.

Hannah, if you can't follow any of those steps, then I would end the marriage, because more affairs will be in your future. The most critical first steps toward recovery are a) exposure and b) no contact with the affair partner. Without those steps, it is hopeless. There is a very narrow path to recovery and you can choose to take it or not. Best of luck to you.

Exposure is a critical first step:


If you are interested in saving your marriage, I would put aside those fears of humiliation and expose the affair. It will make all the difference in your recovery. This is not a cafeteria plan where you select what makes you feel comfortable. None of it is comfortable. But getting divorced is the LEAST comfortable. That is where you are headed now unless you can follow a plan. The people who are successful are those who can put aside their emotions and follow a plan.

I will be back later with more as I only have a few minutes right now.

I found my way to MB in 2007 and attempted a recovery with a serial cheater (2 affairs). He was remorseful and willing to do almost anything. There wasn't much on MB at that time about repeat offenders, like there is now.

He did it again a few years later and we are now divorced.

The pain and humiliation that you are experiencing now will be about 10 times worse if you bang your head on the wall in a false recovery only to be burned, again, by another affair.

This is where you need to start. You need to become (a) very familiar with this program (right now it does not seem as if you understand it to me) and 2) implement it in its ENTIRETY.

MB does not work when you cherry pick through it.

Be back with more later.

Some of these steps are things no marriage can be good without. Dr. Harley has spent many years research and comparing those who have good marriages, and those who don't; those who avoid infidelity, and those who don't; those who recover from infidelity, and those who don't.

His recommendations are the things people have to do if they want to recover from infidelity - if they don't do these things, their marriage fails. And if they go on to get married again and don't do these things, they fail again.

Then I'm sorry to say that there is no hope for your marriage. In order for your marriage to recover, you are going to have to make radical lifestyle changes. We all did. You are headed for divorce if you don't.

Exposure is therapeutic. It will give you a support system (even if you decide to divorce), and it will give your husband the accountability he needs. It is normal to feel some fear and dread about exposure, like it is normal to feel some fear and dread over surgery. But don't pass up the life-saving surgery just because of your emotions. Without this step, the wound of his affair will only fester and get worse.

I agree - if he's not on his knees begging for a chance to make this up to you, his perspective is not one that is going to make recovery likely.

How does no contact with this OW keep him from having any other ones? As we have already established that he is a serial cheater. NC will not keep him from seeking other sex partners if he wishes to. The way I see it, the only thing to do is to fix out relationship so he wouldn't need or want to.
And how exactly does exposure help? I have a hard time understanding how telling my parents or his would keep him from cheating again.

Do you understand the love bank? (If not, please read through the Basic Concepts) This OW has made massive lovebank deposits with your WH.

Yes, he needs super-duper EPs since he is a serial cheat, but he also needs to stay away from previous lovers - they are a danger to your marriage as well.

Have you read through the Exposure thread and articles on this site?

Did you read this?

If he is a serial cheater, he needs MORE extraordinary precautions, not less.

There is a flaw in this question.

No Contact with the OW does not keep him from having any other affairs with other women. That is not the purpose of that extraordinary precaution. What it does is prevent THIS affair from continuing or resparking.

Other extraordinary precautions will prevent other affairs with other women (such as "no opposite sex friendships" or "no nights apart").

Hannah, Dr Harley has written about serial cheats. Brainy will come by and post the link, I cannot find it right now but it is far harder to recover with a serial adulterer because they pursue affairs rather than falling into them by accident. They do it for the thrill of the chase and conquest. It has nothing to do with your relationship so do not make this your fault. You could have the perfect marriage and he could still be seeking outside thrills and spills.

The only way to stay married to a serial adulterer is to be in a position where opposite sex contact is impossible. That means no mixed group hobbies, no computer and no smart phone. You will need to work together too. If this is not something he will agree to, you might just as well file for divorce now. It will be less painful for you.

I think the exposure issue may come from a different cultural background. I am not American, obviously. In our culture (Northern European) it is seen as extremely impolite and even unacceptable to air your dirty laundry in public. It is just not done. And the women who do go around talking about their marital problems are considered rather ridiculous. Our culture is considerably more private and family matters are rarely discussed with a wider circle of friends. Thus the idea of telling everyone we know that my husband cheated on me, AND we are trying to mend things is unheard of. We'd only talk about our WS if we were getting divorced. This is something you only discuss with your best friend. If even...
As for NC, I cannot explain it really. Part of it is also cultural - we don't take up and move as easily as people in the States. We are much less mobile - the countries are smaller and job opportunities tend to be concentrated to particular areas, making it more difficult to find work in a different city. We also tend to live close to our families (eg my kids spend at least one weekend a month with both grandparents, in addition to Sunday dinners etc.). So moving for us is not usually a viable option. As our issue is not work-related, but lifestyle-related, at the risk of being sacrilegious, I'll try to put it in terms some people might be able to understand. Imagine you are deeply religious and belong to a very specific church. You raise your kids in that spirit and spend all weekends going to chucrh or volunteering or doing other church-related activities. There are no other similar churches in the entire country. And your husband happens to have an affair with another congregation member (equally religious). So who should leave the church? Where would you go? What would you do with your life?
Sorry if I offended anyone, but this is exactly how important this 'hobby' is to our entire family.

It is very surprising to me that when you have now experienced not one but TWO infidelities from the same person, you seem to have no desire to help your own situation. You are arguing against implementing the most common sense, basic precautions to begin recovery. Establishing no contact with the AP is common sense. You are basically saying you want to continue hanging out with a group that includes her. Is your own personal self worth so little that you would want to put yourself through that?

The bottom line is, there is absolutely no hope for you to have an affair proof marriage with your current attitude. You cannot brush this *second* affair under the rug *again* and continue to live life as if you are not married to a serial cheater, and not experience cheating again, and again, and again.

It saddens me to see a young woman with a lifetime ahead of her accept this as her best life.

I've never felt humiliated for people to know about my wife's affair. I've felt a bit humiliated for people to know I was out of our home several weeks due to my abuse, but for the most part people respect us quite a bit more to know this and realize that we have a happy completely recovered marriage today.

Oh, and I have indeed read through most of the advice here and am familiar with the terms. I have also read the bits about serial cheaters. I am just not at a place (yet?) where I'm willing to follow all the steps without questioning any of them...

You can argue your point and try to educate us on why it is in your best interest to follow 'Plan Hannah' and it will not change a thing. Because most of us posting here have seen how this works, and we know that it is absolutely impossible for you to recover and have a great marriage with Plan Hannah.

If you would like Marriage Builders advice we are happy to give it. But if you are looking for us to condone you following your own plan which we know will not work, that is not going to happen.

It would be better to go ahead and get a divorce and start recovering on your own now than to go through additional years of agony and then go through divorce later on.

Ok, well, then there is a deeper issue here.

You either don't believe that Dr Harley knows what he is talking about or you believe that you can do "some" of the comfortable parts of his program and skip over the parts that you don't like.

Of course you are free to do whatever you like, but cherry picking MB will not work and nobody here will tell you that it can (because we've never seen that happen).

Cutting Corners and MB

Agree x 100.

Ask me how I know...

It's the same here, in America.

The problem is that the majority of the world is part of a bad marriage culture. In order to have a good marriage, you are going to have to change your lifestyle and join the good marriage culture (which is in the minority worldwide).

We're not telling you to expose just because we are American. Americans balk at exposure at first, too. We are telling you to expose because it is what will be good for your marriage.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, regardless of where you live.

You realize that Americans say the same thing, right?

We tell people to leave that church. It does happen, btw.

We didn't say it keeps him from other ones. We said it keeps him from THIS ONE. You will have to take even more radical steps to keep him from new affairs. We have told you this.


That is right, we will fix your relationship. But your marriage will never be fixed unless you AFFAIR PROOF IT and make radical changes in your lifestyles.

The purpose is to prevent repeat affairs.


The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting it out into the open helps your H see it for what it is and motivates him to take the necessary steps to change.

It is the same in America. We are not asking you to go along with destructive cultural norms, but to save your marriage. Cultural norms in the US is 65% of marriages experience infidelity. Cultural norms in US are 50% divorce rate. Do you want to be married or do you want to appease destructive cultural norms?


This is very irrational because you are basically choosing a little hobby over your marriage. That lifestyle and environment has proven toxic to your marriage. You can't have the same lifestyle and sustain your marriage.

And this ok, you are perfectly within your rights to end your marriage. We will support you in that regard.

Hannah, I was on the boards several years ago, when the focus was less strict. Like you, I didn't want to air my dirty laundry, and didn't follow the narrow path to recovery. It is true that Dr. Harley's methods are the best way to recover your marriage. I picked the parts of the program that weren't too uncomfortable, it was a long painful slide to failure, and ended up filing for divorce. Our son is still affected by it; the OW is still my ex's "friend", and it still hurts me sometimes.
Honestly, more marriages recover when the couples follow the method he advocates. Please don't think you can design your own recovery.

It's the same here in America.

What Dr. Harley found is that the betrayed spouses who expose are the ones most likely to recover. Most of his recommendations go against our culture and against our instincts. But most marriages fail (80%). And most go through affairs (60%). Most people don't do what it takes to have a good marriage or to recover from infidelity. Most people don't know anything about it.

We don't do that easily here, either.

We have the same difficulties convincing an American to do these things that we have convincing you to do these things.

My wife and I are deeply religious and we belong to a very specific church, to which her family belongs. If she or I had an affair with a church member we would have to leave the church and find another or go churchless - there's no way we could recover our marriage in such a situation.

We will be happy to help you understand why following these steps is a very good idea, and why and how not following these steps is going to make recovery impossible. There are even some Europeans here who can let you know what it is like to follow or not follow the plan.

Exposure is important no matter what happens. However, recovering your marriage and following EP's will only happen if your WH is on board, and it sure seems like he has no intentions of doing that.

So first, you need to set your standards high and require these things in order for him to stay married to you. But second, he needs to be 100% on board with doing them. This doesn't take a conversation, it just takes a 'yes or no' I will come back hat in hand and do whatever it takes to recover and affair proof our marriage.

Right now it does not seem like you are willing to set the bar high for yourself.

Even if you are, it seems highly unlikely that he will meet it.

Hannah, we would like to help you by being the friends who don't let you make this mistake a second time.

Have you checked out Dr. Harley's radio show? There is an app you can install for your phone or you can listen from the website. It's free. Dr. Harley is a professional who has been saving marriages and specializing in infidelity for four decades. He gives out an hour of free help every day through the show. This is what saved mine and Prisca's marriage, from an affair and from abuse.

Hannah, what's the hobby? Are you nudists?

Read this and listen to the clips, especially at the them end of this thread.
Serial Cheaters

Thanks for your input.
I will check out the radio show.
I do not doubt that MB works. I just wonder if it is the only path to recovery. Maybe this is not for me.
As for NC, I demanded NC without my presence. It is ME who is not willing to leave the 'church' (no, we are not religious or nudists . I cannot make anyone else understand this. I told him to write a letter to the AP ending the affair and letting me read it before sending it.
I will consider exposure.
I have demanded full access to everything that has made the affair possible - facebook and email passwords, phone records and iphone finder app.
I have also demanded IC and MC and we will work through the questionnaires on MB together.
I WILL not demand no contact with the opposite sex, no smart phones or computers or any other radical suggestions. It seems absurd. Sorry! I think having access to his email and FB and phone records (i have known his phone code from the beginning) is enough.
We spend 99% of our free time together. The hobby we share, we always go together. He works in an almost male-only environment and the only nights apart we do are my work-related when he stays home with kids or his work-related, when he is the woods with MEN (trust me, he is in the military and in a unit that has no females). His workplace is miles away from anywhere and he commutes by a 'workers' bus'. He doesn't really have access to a car or public transport during the day. He doesn't ever do nights out with friends, I do occasionally and he stays home with kids.
He was the one who suggested counselling to begin with. He sees sex as his only issue. Sex alone. Our libidos are VERY different. Mine is especially low after the second kid. He confessed that he has been 'helping himself' in the shower for years. We have tried to approach the issue several times in the past and I have been aware of the fact that lack of sex is an issue for him. I haven't done much about it. Not taking blame for his actions and not minimizing the affair, but that's the hard truth. For him, this is our only problem. He wants to do IC and try and work out his issues. But I am not sure what the end result will be. If I have not been able to raise my libido even though I have been aware it's an issue for him, how is he supposed to lower his? We'll come up with a middle ground that will make neither of us truly happy?

Of course he sees sex as 'the only issue'. Men can have sex with anyone willing, women need to be in love. Your low libido is the canary in the coal mine. Eventually it will turn into a full blown sexual aversion if you force yourself.

Think back to how things were when he first cheated on you before marriage. I'm betting there was no reluctance on your part and yet he cheated. You are allowing him to gaslight you.

By the way, I am English. We have many English people on this forum. You might want to read ChalknCheese's thread for an awesome story of how someone in a small country deals effectively with a serial adulterer.

Btw, there has always been reluctance from my part. A bit less then, bust still quite a few rejections and excuses.

I'll check the thread you suggested. Thanks!

Yet, you can see the result. EVen so, you are free to reject the suggestions given here. Best of luck to you.

This is not going to end well for you. I'm sorry. I wish you well.

Ok, this thing here is way too much of a cult for me!
I'm out!
Best of luck to you all!

I've been called worse.

We value helping people recover their marriages, because we were helped. This program works, when followed. If you don't want to follow it, that's fine. But we care enough about you to warn you of the heartaches we know are coming, because we've seen them come many times.

If that makes us a cult ... well ... shrug. I've been called worse, but I will say I am amused to be labeled such by a lady who refuses to leave a group to save her own marriage.

If you do decide you want our help, we'll welcome you back with open arms.

It's funny to me that you call this a cult, given that you said you are very familiar with MB and claim to have implemented it years ago after the first affair. Everything that has been posted to you on this forum is exactly what is outlined in Dr Harley's articles and site. So nothing we are posting should come as a surprise to you if that is true.

Admittedly you did not follow everything here which has led to your marriage being in the ditch with a second affair. So we are trying to encourage you to actually implement this program in its entirety.

BTW, I also find it funny given that you are in some type of "lifestyle group" (???) that you refuse to leave even though the OW is a part of it. That is extremely odd and rarely something we see a BW advocate for - which led me to wonder myself if you were in a cult.

Really, just do Plan Hannah and be done with it. It's your marriage and your life. There's no need to insult posters, on your way out the door, who volunteer their free time to try to help you out of the kindness of their hearts because Dr Harley and MB have helped them in their lives and marriages. Gosh. Rude.

Hannah, a wife's reluctance to make love is not just excuses - there's a serious cause for it that shouldn't be ignored.

Dr. Harley has a lot of great help for this situation, starting with this article:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html

Please check out what he has to offer, and if you don't find what you need, send him an email on his radio show - and listen to it, daily.

Let us know if we can help you.