Marriage Builders
Posted By: mervyn's wife M's Wife - 08/30/18 04:06 PM
Hi Melody
No i don't have contact with the one he had sex with while i was asleep in our bed on more than one occasion.
The other Sister was not interested and told me my husband was a "player". I am the stupid Wife in this who never learns,just found out last 3 month's how long it lasted
after not remembering for 40 years i now have heard from 1st date to colour of underwear and the sex positions.
To say i am an emotional wreck on my way to see Therapist and hopefully i will get a life.
i am 66 years of age been with this man since before my 16th birthday.
When i originally found out about the 1st lady friend was told it lasted a couple of month's i told him if he wanted to go please go i don't want a man
who would rather be somewhere else he stayed why i don't know he says family i'm not sure if it was his children as we had one child and planned pregnancy while
affair was going on he said then and now he loves me i asked what does that mean(love). I don't know if this marriage can survive as he still doesn't how deep the hurt is.
For him it was over 40 years ago but it's all that has happened between now and then no respect or trust long gone, we have a wonderful family,grandchildren who love him
dearly. From M's Wife
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 08/30/18 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
For him it was over 40 years ago but it's all that has happened between now and then no respect or trust long gone, we have a wonderful family,grandchildren who love him


Hello MW! Welcome Marriage Builders. Yes, your marriage can be saved if he changes his habits. That has not happened yet. The fact that he just went out to a bar with a woman means nothing has changed. He was also accused of trying to have an affair recently. If you want to save your marriage, you need to start by setting up your lives so you are together 24/7. You should never be apart. And he certainly should never go to bars with women or ever even have the opportunity to pick up women. Otherwise, you should not consdier staying with him.

Do you have full access to his phone, email, everything? Here is the checklist to affair proof your marriage:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 10:44 AM
HI
Thanks for your feedback i wish i could believe this marriage is saveable just don't think my husband realises how deep this hurt goes
i stupidly ask questions that was none of my business which he answered wonderful for someone who has had a memory problem for the last 40years
and thought he need to be truthful and promptly answer my questions about him and girlfriend sexual details even after i said please protect me from myself
i needed to hear about their 1st date from someone who can't remember about our or anniversary and then next day will tell me it was 40years ago and he lied to me i was
told it lasted a few months instead of the years it did plus all that has happen since all feedback welcome please help i don't want to be his police force and i don't trust him
M'wife
Posted By: living_well Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 11:22 AM
I think I can speak for everyone here who has experienced betrayal when I say that the lies are worse than the adultery itself.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave / When first we practice to deceive."

The lies leave you with the feeling that everything the wayward has ever said or done through your entire marriage is probably a lie. Of course you do not trust him. Why would you?

But rather than digging and digging into tiny details of past history, what you really need is for him to start being open, honest and truthful don't you? That begins with an acknowledgement by him of how he has wronged you and a genuine commitment on his part to be different. Dr Harley recommends a one time full confession of everything and then for the subject to be left alone. Each time you bring up the betrayals you renew the hurt to yourself.

Look at the list of extraordinary precautions that Mel posted and see if the two of you can enthusiastically agree to them. A recovered marriage is a beautiful thing but it does not happen easily. But your reward in being able to enjoy your grandchildren together is enormous.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 11:56 AM
Mervyn'swife, did you read my post?
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 02:27 PM
yes thank you but i don't think i can be his police women i have a group of women i do a hobby with and i wouldn't like to give it up which
means he will be on his own for a few hours and i need to trust now i'm so full on anger one minute and tears the next the anger is with him and myself
for being so blind and stupid to believe all the lies and staying in this relationship
thank you for all your help
M'wife
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 03:21 PM
Hi
i think a miss one of your post just read now do agree i can be my own worst enemy just so angry but surely when it confession time i don't need to know all the detail from underwear to 1st date when how often and how if i do please there must be a kinder way
thanks M'wife
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
yes thank you but i don't think i can be his police women i have a group of women i do a hobby with and i wouldn't like to give it up which
means he will be on his own for a few hours and i need to trust now i'm so full on anger one minute and tears the next the anger is with him and myself
for being so blind and stupid to believe all the lies and staying in this relationship
thank you for all your help
M'wife



It was too much trust that has caused all this trouble. you KNOW he cannot be trusted, so that is a foolish thing to say. You DON'T trust him. Your emotions are telling you something is very wrong and that is why you are so angry and distraught.

It will STAY THAT WAY unless and until you and your husband make radical changes in your lifestyles. If you won't do that, then I PROMISE you there will be more affairs.

Quote
i need to trust now

This is silly talk. You don't TRUST and that is not true. What you need to do is affair proof your marriage. Sticking your head in the sand is why he has been so reckless. STOP.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Hi
i think a miss one of your post just read now do agree i can be my own worst enemy just so angry but surely when it confession time i don't need to know all the detail from underwear to 1st date when how often and how if i do please there must be a kinder way
thanks M'wife

Your anger will fade way IF AND WHEN you affair proof your marriage. If you won't do that, then your resentment will GROW. This idea that you need to "trust" is silly. Too much "trust" has brought you to this terrible place. you have know for YEARS that he could not be trusted and did nothing about it.

It is time to stop pretending you "trust" him. YOU DON'T.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 03:33 PM
Hi
Maybe if he had been a better husband emotionally in the years after the sexual encounters and didn't lie swearing all the time it was few months i would be in a better place
it's the lying all he memories we shared all lies if feel physically and emotionally abused and unfortunately i still have feeling for him
m;wife
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Hi
Maybe if he had been a better husband emotionally in the years after the sexual encounters and didn't lie swearing all the time it was few months i would be in a better place
it's the lying all he memories we shared all lies if feel physically and emotionally abused and unfortunately i still have feeling for him
m;wife
Do you want to save your marriage? No one will fault you if you want to divorce. What do you want to do?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 08/31/18 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Hi
Maybe if he had been a better husband emotionally in the years after the sexual encounters and didn't lie swearing all the time it was few months i would be in a better place
it's the lying all he memories we shared all lies if feel physically and emotionally abused and unfortunately i still have feeling for him
m;wife


You are correct. The solution is for him to be a better husband by:

a) affair proofing your marriage. you need to set up your lives so he CAN'T cheat again. If you are with him 24/7 he won't be able to cheat. He still has a swinger lifestyle, though. I mean, what kind of married man goes to bars with women?? crazy And why would you ever tolerate that?

b) creating a romantic relationship

Unless you make those changes, you are facing MORE affairs and years of resentment and anger. So what do you choose?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/02/18 06:36 PM
Hi Mervyn's wife, you are so welcome!

Hugs!!!!!!

Some words on trust from Dr Harley:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
So if an unfaithful spouse is unwilling to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, I explain to their spouse that they should not be trusted. Why? It's because we should only trust those who are willing and able to protect our feelings and interests. Someone unwilling to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement is unwilling to do that. Even if a spouse has never had an affair, may not be an alcoholic, a workaholic, or any other kind of "aholic," if that person is unwilling to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement it means that it's only a matter of time before an incredibly painful act of thoughtlessness will occur. That person should not be trusted.

In addition to refusing to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, many of the unfaithful spouses I've counseled have also refused to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They don't want their spouse to know their passwords, their schedule, their cell phone records, and other personal information. And yet, they tell me and their spouse that they've changed and now we can trust them. I tell them that they should not be trusted.

Many unfaithful spouses have demanded that the betrayed spouse trust them.
They argue that without that trust their marriage cannot thrive. They don't use that argument to build their marriage, but rather to avoid doing anything to regain trust.

In short:
1) Trust is not your job! You don't have to generate the appearance of fake trust, because it's your husband's job to make the trust happen.
2) Following the affair recovery checklist is your husband's job! For you it's just a guide as to what to expect.
3) There is no requirement to trust a thoughtless, secretive person who hurts you. Not even if he is your husband!
4) There are ways for even a proven cheat to prove themselves trustworthy. He can follow the checklist any time!
5) Your husband's job involves getting your full agreement before acting on anything, it's HIS job to be thoughtful.
6) Your husband's job involves volunteering information so he can no longer hide behind lies to be thoughtless.

You have always done your job as his wife. Make sure he does his.

It makes my head ache to think how exhausted you must be after this many years of infidelity and one sided effort. No one here underestimates the toll it takes on you. No one is trying to give you an extra job, but rather a set of standards to protect your health.

You don't have to take on the role of policewoman, if he is doing the work! Push this responsibility onto the right plate!

Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/03/18 02:49 AM
Hi
Thank you for your feedback
I really thought we had worked threw these affairs i have lost one sister and still my husband doesn't understand the hurt and when i have tried to tell him that he is playing with people's feelings mine and the ladies he flirts with even if i'm there he will tell me i'm over reacting
I thought these retirement years we would have been enjoying i cannot afford to leave our home but more than that we have a wonderful family
unit and have great pleasure from our grandchildren,but i can never go threw this hurt again
My husband says he wants to save this marriage and is learning to be a better husband i told him decency and respect is something at the age of
74years should come naturally even at a
young age he has very seldom treat me or my body with respect,for 40 or more years he lied to me and now some of the details of the affair he
has told me even when i asked him not too has shock me sometimes i look at him and think of the few good years and do i want to save this marriage only if i can be treated as a woman if he needs his ego to ber fed by more than one woman i can't stand by and watch, he slept
with my sister while i was asleep how do i overcome that and then flirts with the other who was here on holiday even after i told him to stop
he tells me i'm not doing anything i tell him i'm not blind
Is there any hope
M'wife
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/03/18 03:51 AM
Help
how do i cope with this anger i feel towards this man this violence,i can't get peace something so stupid will trigger either hurt or the most terrible
anger i think i have lost myself i don't know how to cope with this violence what can i do why did he have to lie he has made me feel so worthless
Why doesn't he leave our children left home 20years age he say he loves me what doe that mean i know what i thought i had doesn't exist i don't know this man he has shock the hell out of me what i do for my sanity
M'wife
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/03/18 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
I really thought we had worked threw these affairs i have lost one sister and still my husband doesn't understand the hurt

Yes that's typical. You mention his memory problems too - we call that the fog. People with addictions turn off half their brain.

Don't ask for understanding or insight from an addict; they just need to DO THE CHECKLIST.


Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
he tells me i'm not doing anything

Nope! Not your job!



Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Help
how do i cope with this anger i feel towards this man

It's not your job to solve your feelings or clean up a mess you didn't make. Unless he is spending every minute implementing the checklist he is not doing his job of paying you Just Compensation.

You will remain angry until he pays you JC and gets out of the fog.

Unless he does the checklist, you should turn your back to him and get him to leave. It's being around an unremorseful cheat that is making you angry.

It's probably played merry hell with your health too.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/03/18 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Help
how do i cope with this anger i feel towards this man this violence,i can't get peace something so stupid will trigger either hurt or the most terrible
anger i think i have lost myself i don't know how to cope with this violence what can i do why did he have to lie he has made me feel so worthless
Why doesn't he leave our children left home 20years age he say he loves me what doe that mean i know what i thought i had doesn't exist i don't know this man he has shock the hell out of me what i do for my sanity
M'wife

The way you cope with the anger is to follow the plan I outlined above. If you will affair proof your marriage, creating a safe environment and a happy marriage you won't be angry anymore.

Quote
how do i overcome that and then flirts with the other who was here on holiday even after i told him to stop
he tells me i'm not doing anything i tell him i'm not blind
Is there any hope

No, there is no hope if he continues to flirt with women and continues to behave like a single man. He recently went to a bar with a woman and that is not the behavior of a man who is serious about saving his marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/03/18 02:03 PM
"i need to trust now"<------this type of thinking is a big reason why your marriage is in such a bad place. Pretending you trust him while ignoring the problems has made the problems bigger.

You have not held him accountable. If you are not serious about protecting your marriage, then he won't be either.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/04/18 03:56 PM
Hi Melody
Many thanks for all the info.you have help me,the feeling someone is there.
Don't know if this marriage will make it but i'm getting stronger emotionally every day.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/04/18 04:59 PM
Will he do the checklist though?


You could be emotionally bulletproof and that still doesn't make being continually shot at either romantic or survivable.

Checklist: Yes or No?
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/04/18 06:44 PM
He is trying check list or at least his version
lets see how long it last
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/04/18 07:03 PM

Ah gotcha.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 04:48 AM
Hi
Mervyn's version of check list yesterday started well we had a lovely warm and loving morning full of promises,
my husband working mostly on the phone and some private he say who was phoning ,later i was going to use his cell phone
often do as he has more ir time than i do on his e-mails is one from lady he was drinking with no problem other people were
also cc in but he hasn't said anything and i was right lying next to him and i could see e-mails were read.
So i asked have you read tour e-mails NO he answers one look of my face told him he had been caught out in a lie and he tried another to get
out of it'i asked if you are lying about the small stuff for no reason what are you going to do about big stuff
Amazing i didn't get angry just walked away,what do i do about this man
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 12:04 PM
So the email was from drink-lady to a bunch of people including your husband?


What kind of group is this and what was the email about?

I think the first thing I would do is have your husband change his email and ask that he PoJA who gets his email address before he gives it out. It should be hardly anyone. Your husband is a serial cheat who shouldn't be swapping social emails with random people.

Posted By: living_well Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
So i asked have you read tour e-mails NO he answers one look of my face told him he had been caught out in a lie and he tried another to get
out of it'i asked if you are lying about the small stuff for no reason what are you going to do about big stuff
Amazing i didn't get angry just walked away,what do i do about this man

But this isn't 'the small stuff'. This is really important. If Mervyn cannot (or will not) tell you the truth, you cannot save this marriage.

Anyone can be nice for a while. It takes real effort to break a lifetime of dishonesty.

What do you do? You draw your line in the sand. Tell him exactly what you want from him. Then a single infraction and he packs his bag.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
He is trying check list or at least his version
lets see how long it last

Has he completed the checklist? I am getting the sense that you don't take this very seriously and since that is the case, he won't ever take it seriously. You seem to be sitting by waiting for him to do something and you should be demanding that he affair proof your marriage now. If you won't do these things, I don't see any hope here.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Hi
Mervyn's version of check list yesterday started well we had a lovely warm and loving morning full of promises,
my husband working mostly on the phone and some private he say who was phoning ,later i was going to use his cell phone
often do as he has more ir time than i do on his e-mails is one from lady he was drinking with no problem other people were
also cc in but he hasn't said anything and i was right lying next to him and i could see e-mails were read.
So i asked have you read tour e-mails NO he answers one look of my face told him he had been caught out in a lie and he tried another to get
out of it'i asked if you are lying about the small stuff for no reason what are you going to do about big stuff
Amazing i didn't get angry just walked away,what do i do about this man

Walking away does not solve anything. Instead he should delete that email account and start up a new one that is never given out to females. You should have all the passwords to his new email account.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 02:56 PM
I also find it really interesting that he isn't updating his thread with items checked off or asking us whether he has done the checklist correctly.

You are asking if he's doing enough. He's not.

If he had, we could have guided him in a way that prevented this kind of obviously offensive behaviour before it even happened.

Instead, he waits until something blows up in his face and runs back to his habits of lying.

I'm not comfortable with his efforts until I y'know, see some.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP;

(change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
Posted By: markos Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
He is trying check list or at least his version
lets see how long it last

If it's going to be his version, there's no sense giving it any time to see how long it will last, because if he does his own checklist, it won't work.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: M's Wife - 09/06/18 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
He is trying check list or at least his version
lets see how long it last

If it's going to be his version, there's no sense giving it any time to see how long it will last, because if he does his own checklist, it won't work.

I agree. If he won't do the list that was given to him, there's no point. You would be better off separating now and having nothing to do with your husband until he commits to this program.

Otherwise you are just signing yourself up for more misery and pain.


Posted By: unwritten Re: M's Wife - 09/07/18 05:08 PM
Why are you allowing him to create �his version� of the checklist? What did he change in the list? The checklist of EP�s was created by Dr Harley, an expert in the field of recovering from adultery and affair proofing a marriage. Do you think your WH knows better how to affair proof a marriage than Dr Harley? We would never recommend letting a wayward create his own conditions of recovery, obviously he is going to leave himself holes in the plan with which he can continue to do shady things.

The bottom line is, you are allowing your WH to control recovery. Or, you are just trying to sweep this all under the rug. Either one of these approaches WON�T WORK. It didn�t work when you dealt with this years ago and it won�t work now. I guess the question is, how badly do you want to change this? If you do want to change it, but not enough to draw a firm line in the sand and leave the marriage if necessary, then your WH has no motivation to stop doing what he�s doing. As you�ve been told, if you aren�t serious than he won�t be. If you absolutely 100% want to end this way of life where you are dealing with a serial cheater, then you need to follow Dr Harley�s proven methods.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/10/18 11:52 AM
HI
Many thanks i agreed with all you guys said and Mervyn is also reading and he must either shape up or ship out
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: M's Wife - 09/10/18 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
HI
Many thanks i agreed with all you guys said and Mervyn is also reading and he must either shape up or ship out
What is he doing to �shape up�?
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/11/18 11:42 AM
Hi
Taking the checklist more seriously finally
please does the pain of betrayal ever lessen i can't remember the last time i looked forward to daybreak
and awoke happy
You guys have given me strength when i truly felt worthless many many thanks
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/11/18 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Hi
Taking the checklist more seriously finally
please does the pain of betrayal ever lessen i can't remember the last time i looked forward to daybreak
and awoke happy
You guys have given me strength when i truly felt worthless many many thanks

The pain will lessen IF - and only IF - he affair proofs his marriage. What is he doing on the checklist? What has changed here? Is he still going out to bars? Is he still going out without you? Has he changed all his contact information? Do you have full access to his phone, email, etc?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/11/18 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Hi
Taking the checklist more seriously finally

I know you've said he's reading but I am still not wearing my impressed face. He should be on his thread, listing what he's done and anxiously asking if it's enough. If not from us, then from the Harleys themselves.

It's like he doesn't know his marriage is hanging by a thread!

He knows he's within spitting distance of 'bags packed and waiting for you in the hallway' right?

Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/12/18 03:26 PM
Hi
My husband is trying to login to his profile but not having any success.
if anyone can help him please advise.
The profile number is 76520
Many Thanks
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/12/18 03:39 PM
He needs to go to the blue bar at the top of the forums and click on 'log in'

He should see two spaces: username and password.

In username he should put: mervynl1

And then whatever his password is next to password.

If he has forgotten it, there is a link to click for forgotten passwords.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/15/18 07:40 PM
Hi
Terrible day my husband doesn't seem understand the depth of his betrayal,tells me all these woman meant nothing
Tells me i didn't love my sister so it's not a problem if he had sex with her he also said that about middle sister when he was flirted with her
What respect is he showing to me or either of the women,said 1st affair also meant nothing but lied about length of it until caught after 40 years
and now tell me to get over it as it was a long time ago,it is so very sad he still has no respect for me or them
I loved my sister very very much and her betrayal was a double blow. she was a very young girl almost 18years and i think
he should of protected both of us.
After all this in the early years of our marriage now in our 48th year things have not got any better no respect and not much honesty
I have told him he has made me feel worthless and of no value as he is always on the look out to flirt.and twist things i say to blame me
Posted By: mervynl1 Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 02:30 AM
Hi
It was me who brought up affairs, i still can not get over how long he lied to me about 1st affair i thought we had worked threw it only to be living it all over again
I think he only stayed because the lady went back to her husband,and he has been angry with me all thee years if he had been honest he could maybe have had
the live he wanted or needed instead we have both suffer from a unhealthy relationship lasting almost 50years and i feel i have paid dearly for it
We can not save this marriage if there is no honestly every day there is a new truth, he thinks no one new about his affair at the office even when they left the office
together traveled in same car, why could i not see or feel he was been unfaithful for all those years
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 11:38 AM
Hi Mrs M,

You're not going to feel safe overnight obviously. You have x years experience of him being untrustworthy compared to x days of him affair proofing your marriage.

What is triggering you and setting you off? Is he doing anything concerning? Think what is prompting you to have these discussions. So long as his behaviour is trustworthy in the present try to avoid dragging your husband back into the past. His former mindset will reappear whenever you do this.

Vent HERE on your thread. If you vent to your husband it will not lead anywhere good.

Some things to consider:

Are you still living in the same house you suffered the affairs in? This can be a trigger for some betrayed spouses. Other triggers can be cars, objects, contact with certain friends, groups and circles. It's a trauma that can hit you just hearing certain songs etc.

Does Mervyn understand that recovery will be a few years and he has to follow the entire program to make an incredibly romantic marriage with you? The checklist is just basic safety. When you two learn the full on concepts it will be more adequate compensation for you. (If you want to check his understanding anything, check about the present and future).
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by mervynl1
every day there is a new truth,

What new truth?

You should know everything now?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 02:21 PM
MrsMervyn, if you want to recover your marriage and heal you need to stop bringing this up. Every time you speak about it, you bring the unpleasantness of the past into the present. Don't bring it up anymore! Focus on making your marriage great today. Focus on making sure he NEVER has the opportunity to have another affair now.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 02:32 PM
Thank you for your reply,no we are not in the same house but as you say it is small memories that trigger of saddest,special times family times
I'm angry at the amount of time we have wasted in lie deceit which i thought was behind us when i was 1st told the affair was only a couple of months
I was taken to office functions were his girlfriend was also present almost like i was they were making fun of me as her friend thought i was going to be
the x wife judging from a letter received from either her or a friend they make me feel as if i have no value as a woman wife i have been so heartbroken he could
look at me and lie for years
My husband will tell me these ladies meant nothing and i should get over it as it was a long time go yes but the lie went on for 40years until he got caught out
i cried for days how could he have let it go on for years we have a very (i thought good intimate life together and planned a baby during this time) and if he had
learn from him mistakes and been more involved in the marriage and would not be so angry,i get really cross and hurt when he says these ladies meant nothing
how can you have sex with women you feel like that about ,my youngest sister and i we very close before the affair i was in our home while it was happening also
two small children i cooked for them cleaned for them loves then the betrayal was and is unbearable my husband doesn't understand the depth of his lies betrayal
and it hurts me when he hurts my sister using her she was very young we were suppose to be her guardian
When i try to talk to him he throws his arms up and says get over it
How do you get over being heartbroken,i know he is trying but i sometime look at him and get angry just looking
Thanks again for all your positive feedback

Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 02:35 PM
Thank you i am working very very hard at not bring subject up,
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Thank you for your reply,no we are not in the same house but as you say it is small memories that trigger of saddest,special times family times

You don't live together? I don't understand.

Quote
I'm angry at the amount of time we have wasted in lie deceit which i thought was behind us when i was 1st told the affair was only a couple of months
I was taken to office functions were his girlfriend was also present almost like i was they were making fun of me as her friend thought i was going to be
the x wife judging from a letter received from either her or a friend they make me feel as if i have no value as a woman wife i have been so heartbroken he could
look at me and lie for years
My husband will tell me these ladies meant nothing and i should get over it as it was a long time go yes but the lie went on for 40years until he got caught out
i cried for days how could he have let it go on for years we have a very (i thought good intimate life together and planned a baby during this time) and if he had
learn from him mistakes and been more involved in the marriage and would not be so angry,i get really cross and hurt when he says these ladies meant nothing
how can you have sex with women you feel like that about ,my youngest sister and i we very close before the affair i was in our home while it was happening also
two small children i cooked for them cleaned for them loves then the betrayal was and is unbearable my husband doesn't understand the depth of his lies betrayal
and it hurts me when he hurts my sister using her she was very young we were suppose to be her guardian
When i try to talk to him he throws his arms up and says get over it
How do you get over being heartbroken,i know he is trying but i sometime look at him and get angry just looking
Thanks again for all your positive feedback

STOP TALKING ABOUT IT. Start going out on dates with him and focus on having a happy, fun evening.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 05:38 PM
Hi have arrange dates he forgot 2 of them guess my reaction have had a very romantic day as i have told hubby
he has to start dating again thank you never to old to date
Posted By: SugarCane Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You don't live together? I don't understand.
Indie asked whether they live in the same house as the one where the affairs took place. mervyn's wife answered that they don't.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/16/18 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
I was taken to office functions were his girlfriend was also present almost like i was they were making fun of me as her friend thought i was going to be
the x wife

Mrs M, hang out here a while and you will see how typical this is. This sick triple date thing where he has us both in the same room happened to me too. It happens to everyone. The mistress believing she's worth more than she is, is also typical. We even see the affair partner giving marital ADVICE to the wife or husband like they know anything about smart life choices. Like their behaviour is more than a cockroach snacking on crumbs. The delusions happen in most cases. What you say is not surprising.

Every wayward does this stuff. It's a symptom of the mindset, when the affair is active. When the affair behaviour stops, the mindset stops.

It's like a type of drunkenness. The conscience is turned off, they are whacked out on stress and brain chemicals. They have memory problems a LOT.

Dr Harley calls it the fog.

You're asking him if he understands his behaviour; he probably doesn't even remember it!

Don't focus on the drunkeness, focus on the sobriety.

What kind of marriage do you dream about?
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 04:42 AM
morin
New truth today ladies friend left work after she and husband got back together a couple of years later came back to the firm
can't remember if they had any contact if so what says my husband he will think about and get back to me
Then we have a lady he secretly give a lift to work nothing happen says my truthful husband i told him only because he lady didn't or wouldn't let him
now i find out instead of waiting for this woman in the car he was inside her house she wad a divorced
When i eventually found out about giving this woman a lift i ask him why as i was catching public transport and he could have taken both us to work
I have this this man please get all this rubbish out in the open and decide if you want to be here i am like a caged animal he feeds as much as he thinks
i need i'm i ever going to get the truth and get over these years if heartache
I have tried often please been honest give us a chance please truth yhen i will get and bit of his truth and can't start again and again ever time he tell another
piece of the story i'm so scared to give this man another chance i don't know wht is coming next these last few months have been unbearable my health and mental.
state have taken a knock just getting were i was hoping to start relaxing and today new truth
My husband says i'm over reacting please help
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 06:44 AM
OK this is a segment of the checklist left undone (reveal all information) and it looks like with so much back story you have a lot of years to sift through and you're doing it because you don't think you have everything.

You can't get it through interrogation though.

Look for polygraphers in your area. You need him to pass a lie detector test as to any other affairs or factors which made the affairs possible.

Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
My husband says i'm over reacting please help

That is a stunning lack of remorse.

What's his reaction been to the exposure of his affairs? Do the people you've told support you?
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 02:36 PM
Hi thank you for feedback your help is very much appreciated
This morning started well no interrogation one question did you strike up a friendship with your girlfriend when she came back to the company
the way he answered i new he was lying so i said think about it and tell me what you remember please please tell the truth and lets get over all this
i then asked did you ever go into the lady you were giving a lift to house yes he says also 40years after telling me no way,this afternoon he says
i didn,t go in only to her hallway i say she open the door and you went in i would yes but i would not have done anything her kids were there oh our daughter
was in the bedroom you had sex with my sister (not in the same bed) i would not touch her he then says you know how she dress like a prostitute so she got into
the front seat of his car dress like that while i got public transport and when i found out i asked him to stop giving her a lift and phone her when he refused he phone her back and said lifts would continue,he said his boss told him he had to i says what about the other guys in the dept you can take turns and why could i not have been told and also offer a lift to work no reason given
It never ends the lying all i am asking for years and even up to last 3 month the truth problem he believes his own lies and is shocked that i don't because he has been
caught out in so many
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 03:46 PM
Are you reading our posts? Did you see the posts saying you need to stop talking about it? If you want to save your marriage, this has to stop. I can fully understand if you decide to get a divorce, but your marriage will not make it unless you stop this.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 03:53 PM
This is not something you can just raise as a general set of questions in the morning or whenever it occurs to you. Of course he's going to lie to you; he's wayward.

If you spend 40 years asking a wayward questions about the affair, you're going to get 40 years of lies. That is stressful for you both!

You said it yourself; you can't have a new truth every day. Hold his feet to the fire and get it all out in one fell swoop. After you have verified it with a polygraph, you NEVER raise it again.

One list of questions on one evening of truth telling. One and done.

This is what is typically advised in your situation where you feel stuff is still being hidden:

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
An effective tool in getting all the truth is to set up an appointment with polygraph tester and tell your WS a day or two beforehand. Hand him/her a list of questions and give him an opportunity to come clean before the test. [don't give into the temptation to cancel the test, though! many waywards will trickle just enough truth in the hopes of getting you to cancel it]

Here is a registry of polygraph testers nationwide who are licensed members of the American Polygraph Testers:

Membership Directory

Dr. Harley's radio clip about polygraph testing

Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
.

What's his reaction been to the exposure of his affairs? Do the people you've told support you?

Could you answer this?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 04:16 PM
I don't agree she needs to ask him to take a polygraph. She is just asking for more details about what she already knew and rehashing old events. Now is the time to put it to bed and focus on making her marriage great today. Every time she susses out a new nuance, it puts her back to day 1 of recovery and just increases her resentment. The sooner this conversation ends, the sooner her resentment goes away.

This is a difficult situation as it is since he is a long time serial cheater. All of their focus needs to be on a) affair proofing the marriage and b) creating a great marriage today.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 04:26 PM
Yeah that's an important clarification; I had read her post as 'This is a new affair partner he still hasnt told me about' as opposed to 'Let me have the blow by blow about the affair with coworker'

Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Then we have a lady he secretly give a lift to work nothing happen says my truthful husband i told him only because he lady didn't or wouldn't let him

I may be misreading
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 04:39 PM
Yes, I did read that.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 05:01 PM
Yes you are right another woman another lie
sometime he is very remorseful, sometime i will hear a song or think of something i thought was our special time and then i think of all his lies
up to last week he is still lying this time about stupid needless things, that don't warrant lying about,will i ever trust him again
i have tried to explain i'm trying to work will him and then he will lie and think there is no consequences we both have to work together
i agree with all of you about questions i'm working hard, sometimes its all so painful i'm in tears i need to feel secure enough to keep the marriage and have been
for 48 years and what did i get more heartache i'm so scare we have great days and i try to explain this is the marriage i thought we had and is what i want and need
and then he will do something and we go back to the start
He swears he loves me and wants to stays in the marriage then will do and say the most cruel things and can't tell me why
thanks guys no more questions
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Yes you are right another woman another lie

Just to clarify do you mean it was a lie in the past or this is a woman he currently still does not admit having an affair with?

Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
he is still lying this time about stupid needless things,

Ok current lies or still lying about the past? About what? Be specific.

I must again ask if you're getting any support from your exposure targets? Are they holding your husband to account? You sound worryingly overwhelmed and alone in this.


Posted By: mervynl1 Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 06:08 PM
Hi
About current stuff the lady he had the drink with they are on a committee together with other people
and he lie about a email she sent out to all committee needless lie i read it and it was sent out to all
he got caught lying and then lied again to cover 1st lie and got caught again i did ask why lied he didn't
have a answer except to say i shouldn't tell white lies not to him but will ask him to tell people i'm not at home
if phone rings i said my white lies don't hurt people and rather don't answer phone and let people leave messages
Posted By: mervynl1 Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 06:20 PM
Hi
Have been to see a therapist twice she has told me my husband has abuse me
and when i ask her would she see both of us together said no only me will see
her again this week Friday,trying not to get friends and children involved Mervyn
has been to see pastor unfortunately he has been sick only back this week
Some days i think i'm crazy and all of this is a waste of time as Mervyn has never
been committed to this marriage,
Posted By: unwritten Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 06:22 PM
Mervyn�s Wife,

I think you need to ask yourself if you 1) want to move on from the past regardless of what that was or the details surrounding it, and focus on affair proofing the marriage and making it great from here on. Or if you 2) want the full truth about the past, perhaps giving you the bump you need to get out of this marriage.

I myself do not think you have even scratched the surface of what your WH has done over the years. It seems from your story that he had a long period of time without any affairs or indescretions, and I just don�t believe that. I believe you are married to a serial cheater and you only know what you know. You CAN move forward from here and leave the past in the past even if you don�t know everything, and affair proof from here, it is possible as long as you are with him all the time and he does not have ANY opportunity to have another affair. If you want to do this you would need to do as MelodyLane says and stop talking about the affairs you know about.

However, if you also don�t think you have all the information and you don�t know if you can move on without it, I like Indie would recommend having him take a polygraph. Ask him to make a timeline of ALL indescretions, and then have him take a polygraph to prove that he has finally given you the whole truth. I do not think he has. I do not think I personally could move on in a marriage with a serial cheater if there were so many loose ends and unanswered questions. But you have to know by now that you constantly bringing it up in this way is NOT going to get you the information or resolution that you need.

If you are unclear about which avenue to take here, I would highly recommend you email Dr Harley and ask for his advice.
Posted By: mervyn's wife Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 06:41 PM
Can I have Dr Harley's e-mail address.please.
My husband is 74 at what age do men become affair proof.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
My husband is 74 at what age do men become affair proof.
I'm sorry to point this out, but Mick Jagger is 75, and look at the way he carries on.

Age has nothing to do with his behaviour (your husband's, or Mick jagger's).
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 08:25 PM
Pablo Picasso was a life long womanizer until his death age 91. You cannot afford to give the impression you would even consider waiting. There is nothing stopping him from changing his lifestyle today.

Originally Posted by mervyn's wife
Can I have Dr Harley's e-mail address.please.
My husband is 74 at what age do men become affair proof.

It's this address:

mbradio@marriagebuilders.com


At this link:

www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

But before you do that, I thought it was worth reminding you that as well as the standard checklist conditions (such as exposure to everyone you know and radical honesty about all affairs) Dr Harley also recommended on your husbands thread that he should not drink.

Has he done ANY of this stuff?
Posted By: unwritten Re: M's Wife - 09/17/18 09:52 PM
Mervyn�s wife,

He answered on his own thread that a bunch of stuff on the checklist was complete. However, due to the short nature of the answer, in addition to some of the things you have said, I really do not have faith in that. Can you confirm what on the checklist has been complete?

For instance, regarding exposure, you have said you do not want to involve friends and children. Do they know about the serial cheating or not? If you have any hope at all, they will all need to know so they can help you keep him accountable.

Also, it sounds like he is still a member of the committee where he met and went out with a woman for a drink recently. Is that true? He absolutely cannot be a part of ANY outside activities where he will have the opportunity to pursue other women, because he will.

Is he fighting and yelling at you, and purposely telling you hurtful things, in addition to the affairs?
Posted By: mervynl1 Re: M's Wife - 09/18/18 01:41 AM
The friends know some of it and also children
Yes he does fight and says some terrible hurtful things i have asked him does he think i'm a slab of meat
with no feelings
He has told me some very intimate details of the 1st affair i found out about in the last couple of months
from their 1st date to the ladies underwear and a lot more even when i asked him please don't also said in the years of affair they never has cross words with each othr
so i asked him for the same respect
I have no where else to go financially or somewhere else to live i'm 66 years old
The committee he belongs to has bar it is a mixed group of people so he doesn't have to go to the bar
when the other members have left he still can't see what he did was wrong
Posted By: mervynl1 Re: M's Wife - 09/18/18 01:54 AM
He hasn't drank for while but all the stuff i know about happened during working hours.
i have asked him for the last 40 years to please come clean and tell the truth i did believe
the 1st affair was a couple of months the fact he lied for so long and i never knew really hurts
i can't move forward because i don't know what is coming next i'm i going to find out he has
children out there with grandchildren i'm trying to keep this family together i breaks my heart
that i have allowed this man to do this i dread to think what is round the corner i need to
know otherwise i can't do this a second time too much pain
Posted By: indiegirl Re: M's Wife - 09/18/18 06:36 AM
Originally Posted by mervynl1
I have no where else to go financially or somewhere else to live i'm 66 years old

You wouldn't leave. He does.

So...people 'knowing' is not exposure and you only mention a handful of people when it should be everyone.


There's been no exposure and no fall out for him of reputation. He also doesn't risk losing you? This explains his 'no big deal attitude'.
Your supporters should be making sure you are taken care of.

Originally Posted by mervynl1
The committee he belongs to has bar it is a mixed group of people so he doesn't have to go to the bar
when the other members have left he still can't see what he did was wrong

So he hasn't even left this committee? The one with drink lady?

He should not be a part of this committee any more.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: M's Wife - 09/18/18 12:47 PM
Mervynswife, the purpose of exposure is to gain support for your marriage. The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable. The purpose is NOT to ruin his reputation. Close family and friends should be informed of his affairs.

Secondly, he should not be attending a committee meeting unless you are with him. Probably best for him to just quit since he went to a bar with a woman the last time.
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