We hired an Ethiopian full time house maid last night. She is a 6' Amazon woman. This is great. Now I have someone who can spot me on my workouts.
This weekend is WW's bday so I am taking her to Bahrain for fun in the sun and then I have to come back and move the office out of the office and close off part of a wall where the double doors are so maid will have a room to live in. The housemaid was my biggest concern. Now, unless we find a major problem in the next month, we can go to Plan B without too much stress. Everything else should work itself out with time.
You're doing very well. You have a good plan, which you've thought out carefully.
Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone's situation is yours. All situations on here have the same "basic" traits and many, many things in common, but we're all individuals - we're not cut outs.
Misquoting because I'd have to get out of this chair to find the proper quote:
"Courage must be stronger as our strength grows less."
Okay I wasn't going to post but here goes. Looks like ToddAC has gone to sleep for his nightly two hours. I have two issues which are closely interwoven.
One is that I think any affair that does not run its natural course appears to be always about to happen. Stanley's unrequited love. It is very romantic and very much part of the fantasy. We all have fantasies of one type or another.Some are just less healthy. A WW can get stuck in her fantasy for the A (not OM - the A) and OM is a requirement for the A. So Om takes on superhuman qualities. OM becomes the cure for all WW's problems.
There is also the self-esteem issue. Dorry said she still wanted OM to basically love her. She explained it well enough so I won't go into details.
Since my WW's affair did not die a natural death, I believe it will never completely die. I have felt that way for a long time BTW - ToddAC and I discussed this months ago.
So my question that is bothering me is this:
My WW had boyfriends before our marriage. She was in love with some of them. Now they mean nothing to her. I am the same way with old girlfriends. What is it that is different about the OM of an affair? Love is presumably love. Why is love from an A so different from married love or boyfriend love? One sight of an old boyfriend does not make WW wet her pants. One sight of OM and she would go gaga.
There is more to the A than love. Maybe it is as simple as Stanley's brain chemistry. I don't know. I am sure that KiwiJ., Suzet* and other have old boyfriends from their past that have no emotional effect on them at all. What is going on with the OM? Or is the soulmate concept really true?
Does anybody want to take on this question? Please?
I am projecting somewhat with Suzet I admit but Stanley is telling the truth. I am ever so glad that gemela and I are separating. I really need time to deal with all of this. Still need a Plan B letter though. I will dig up that thread in a few days.
Pio, I think you are definitely on to something in the A running it's course. Mine didn't but it would have.
I can't talk about old boyfriends obviously because the OM was an old boyfriend but, yes, the boyfriend between the OM and meeting Rob (the only person I'd had SF with before I met Rob) could have fallen off the face of the earth by now and it wouldn't matter one iota to me.
I don't believe for a moment in the soulmate concept (in the context of an A). I never told the OM I loved him and he never told me either. If I'd told him that it would have meant I didn't love Rob and I knew that wasn't true. The only answer I have is that it is forbidden fruit and romantic because it's hidden.
I know FOR A CERTAIN FACT that it would never have survived as a real relationship. I didn't choose him the first time round and I really wouldn't have chosen him again.
It's a complete and utter fantasy based on chemicals and the notion of a Romeo and Juliet star-crossed lovers relationship. It's romantisised in literature and in the movies and if you're selfish and immature like I was (am) it's easy to get sucked in.
In the movie "Titanic", Kate Winslet keeps repeating "I'll never let go" as she watches Leonardo DiCaprio sink into the depths. Her OM of one night. She lives a long and full life. Has children and grandchildren. When she dies, who does she go back to? Lenny. In his impoverished rags. A man who could never give her anything but true love. A man who said and did all the right things. The perfect soulmate.
This is where Suzet is and this is where gemela is - trapped in a problem of Titanic proportions.
In an affair relationship the only thing that exists is the "good stuff"...ego stroking, light hearted conversation, friendly banter, flirting, teasing, joking, laughing, etc...All feel good fantasy stuff...Kinda like in movies you don't often see the characters go to the bathroom, or at least not EVERYTIME they go...A perfect world, where chocolate has no fat grams and wine has no calories...
There is no "regular stuff"...no bills, no dry cleaning, no sick children, no what are we eating here at home tonight, no broken appliances, no chores...no boring stuff...
Add to all "good stuff", the "forbidden fruit" theory, newness and in my situation, history (OM was my hs/college bf)...I also believe that hormones and chemicals (perhaps dopamine) is involved...I've never shared this on MB, but when I would talk to OM on the phone, I actually got a tingly sensation between my shoulder blades...I KNOW THAT SOUNDS WEIRD, BUT I SWEAR IT'S TRUE...to me that signifies some sort of chemical reaction was going on, but I dunno...Anyway, I'm sure you can see that all that is very addictive...Funny thing is, even in the affair, I KNEW that I would NEVER be able to be with OM...for a gazillion reasons, like I told you before, if I were to ever be single, he would NEVER be my choice...we were just two soul sick individuals that happened upon each other at the "right" time in our timeline...
Ok, now I've rambled and don't think I've really answered much for you...I'm not sure if you may have gleened anything from this or not...I'm really tired and bleary eyed, so, admittedly it's not my best effort...you are welcomed to ask me specific questions if you wish...
Best,
Mrs. W<----A VERY REAL AND SCARY (but not hairy) SASQUATCH!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I completely get what you are saying. Which is why i ask the question. From my simple-minded way of thinking, the WW is in love with the A more than with the OM.
I ask myself this question because I do have doubts that gemela will ever truly get over withdrawal and will ever be able to commit herself to the marriage. I think we fall in Stanley's "hopeless" category. I am not sure that it matters any more. We hired the Ethipoian housemaid so gemela and I will be officially separated on August 12th.
Well Pio, I think that you are right about the addiction being to the affair and not the OP, I have long said that really OM could have been anyone, even Bozo the Clown...
Affairs are about escapism...Funny thing is, what a sicked out WS doesn't realize is that it is actually themselves that they are running from...But instead of focusing on the inside and looking at what's going on there, they seek happiness from without, where it is NEVER to be found...
For most of my life, I existed in daydreams, it was here on this board that I actually "verbalized" that for the first time, honestly, it had never occured to me before-it was but a mechanism/coping skill for me...my affair was a real life daydream turned nightmare for me...Anytime that I was sad, angry, depressed...any negative emotion, I went inside myself to escape to a fantasyland of "happiness"...I constantly, (and still do this at times-getting better though) would say, "I'll be happy when ________.", rather than choosing to be happy in the present...The difference for me is that I am aware of this now, and I put myself in check when it happens...same goes for all the wasted daydreaming time...I am choosing to be happy, because now I realize that it is a choice-and also that life is a mystery to be lived and not a problem to be solved...
It's wonderful that you be able to learn all this, so that you can understand and be healthy yourself...Sadly, no matter how much you learn and grow, Gemela will have to do that for herself...But you know that...
Are you still in Plan A til August? How's that going? What are you working on?
I’m not sure “love” has anything to do with an affair. At least not as far as OM is concerned.
What is love? I’ll admit freely that the feelings I have for my wife started off as “lust”. Developed into “love” and are now a combination of “love”, “respect”, “Cant live without you”, “I’ll try to tolerate you” and occasional “lust” (waaaayyy too occasionally.... sigh).
Maybe what a WS seeks in the affair is not “love” but what the WS sees as the things missing from the love equation in the relationship with BS. So she feels you are not fulfilling certain need and tries to fulfil them outside the marriage.
Is this right or justifiable? No! Is this in any way your fault? No! Since “love” is a concept and not a quantified experience then the definition of “love” varies. For you providing and caring might be love. For her candlelit dinners and serenades might be love. It all boils down to communications and people knowing what they want and can realistically expect.
Had your wife had a clear idea of hat she wanted and you not fulfilled her requirements she had the option of divorcing you. Not of having an affair.
I must also say that in your case I’m not sure the affair had any chance of “dying” or even developing. How realistic is it that OM could have supported your WW and the DD’s? Hardly likely. With the “social” options available in your part of the world what are the chances wither would have willingly stopped? The most likely option was that OM’s contract would expire and he would go on home, leaving WW as his “lost and only true love whom he was doomed to be without” (puke). My guess is that the affair would have continued for that time as “lust” and WW would have held onto the romantic image of OM long after he leaves for home.
Basically I think you have done what you could. That is to get WW to realize the gap between reality and fantasy. She still thinks it’s a fissure but doesn’t realize it’s more like the Grand Canyon.
I am doing my best for Plan A at the moment. No LB's. No DJ's. No discussion of the A whatsoever. I have not mentioned MC again. Gemela said she would make an appointment for us. I am waiting. I am very careful how I broach the subject of separation when it comes up. But I do never let her think it is not going to happen because it will. I have tickets in hand. I have not yet written my Plan B letter. Maybe I will work on that tomorrow.
I am spending more than 15.5 hours per week with WW. I am taking her to Bahrain this weekend to suntan by the pool at the Ritz Carlton and yes we will both drink alcohol. It is her birthday. I got her a subscription to the World Cup so she could watch Mexico. Sadly they are out.
We are getting along extremely well. It is like a second honeymoon. The only fight we have had lately is that she wants to lie to her mom and dad about the reason for the separation. I have told her I won't lie and if I get the opportunity I will tell all but it would be better coming from her. She has to stop running from the truth.
Piojos.....what do you think you will accomplish by making Gemela leave? Is she going to fall back in love with you long distance? If she is so willingly letting her daughters behind to go to Mexico, you must be making her life "de cuadritos". Mexican women almost 100% of the time are very protective of their children. And she is so willingly leaving her two little girls with a complete stranger, a six footer ethiopian woman? But you say you are having a "second honeymoon" with her? If she was, she will not be leaving come August!
I don't expect her to do anything. I have no idea what she will do but that is all her choice. I can't take this any more. The lasagna incident crystalized that for me.
I think gemela is stuck in love with OM. I don't think she will ever get over that. I believe we will probably end up divorced. At the moment I feel quite sad and I think it is because I am now grieving the loss of my marriage.
Gemela has been insisting from the beginning that she "take a break". She tells me the MC says it is a good idea too. SIL also insists she needs to go to Mexico. I am just finally agreeing with all of them. Our plan is that she goes to Mexico in August and I fly her back to visit for Christmas. We will talk then about what our future desires are.
You yourself said my marriage was over a long time ago. We are only trying to do what is best for the DDs at the moment. She will not be separated from them permanently. I have never ever said she would be.
BTW, I am going to Abqaiq right now so I am not ignoring anyone - I am just out for a little while.
Pio - you are paranoid about Gemela being in "love" with OM. I think Stan-ley is wrong when he thinks this kind of affair is hopeless. - the spate of relapsed FWW's notwithstanding.
That may or may not be. But since we are not allowed to talk about the affair in any way, I have no way of knowing up from down. Yes I admit that all the FWW's failing (i.e. getting an "F" in FWW which ironically makes them lose the F to become WW) has had its affect on me. I cannot imagin going through all this only to find a love letter a year from now from WW to OM. I do agree with Stanley that I will not remain in that marriage. Okay so maybe I am cutting off my arm just in case it might get broken.
But the facts are that gemela has never shown any remorse for the A. Has never said anything other than it was an error. I have difficulty knowing that she screwed OM in my bed while I was away and my DDs were in the next room. Not exactly my idea of a responsible mother.
If I stay together with gemela any longer as things currently are, I will have no love left for her. I have no idea what she will do in Mexico. I have told her she is free to do anything she wants. She can go to OM, she can have another affair or, if she decides, she can come back here. It is all her choice. I simply need to give myself the opportunity to heal some of the pain and she refuses to help me do that. Lasagna, French riding instructors, hidden money stashes, etc. are hurting - not helping - me.
You know that funny noise your stereo or PC speaker makes when the cell phone sits too close to it and it gets polled by the repeater? Just for a few seconds you here some pings? I had the world cup hooked into the surround sound the other day and I heard that. I haven't found a phone yet but I am looking. We don't own any cell phones. Where did that sound come from?
The lack of remorse sure makes a case for an ongoing affair.
Just wondering if you're allowed to talk about the state of your marriage (let alone the affair itself)?
Hope you don't mind my butting in to your thread. I've been known to "cop a 'tude" especially when I've felt misunderstood, so I don't hold it against you. Adultery sucks for everybody.
Please feel free. I am not sure what you are talking about with the attitude but it is probably something I posted to you so I am sorry about that. Yes I have been a bit on edge lately. There are several triggers for that. Some are well known and others are not.
Yes adultery is not fun (except for those doing it).
No we are not allowed to talk much about the marriage. The dialogue we are permitted is something like "how are you doing lately?". Answer has to be vague and somewhat cryptic. Acceptable choices are: "okay", " I'm having a rough couple of days but I'll get better". We are allowed to ask how the other is doing in general terms but no discussion of how we as a couple are doing.
These inquiries are really just to help each of us put the other's behavior in context. For example, if I drop kick the cat out the back door while screaming "go get your own food!", she will ask how I am doing lately. If I say I am having a rough day, she does not need to ask about the cat kicking as she knows why I did it.
I am joking BTW. We don't actually have a cat - not since the drop kicking incident anyway. No, no just kidding. WW is allergic to cats or I would have 10 of them.
Early on all relationships are associated with some level of insecurity where the couple feels the deal is not 100% solid. This hindrance creates a greater level of obsession about the relationship. In addition, early on the couple is not together 24/7. This absence from each other keeps everything fresh. That is why the ingredients for passion seem to almost always be present in an affair whereas this is not the case with a stable relationship with no outside threats and complete stability. This will create a calm less passionate environment.
Quite often WWs think that SF with OM is better because OM has technique or great abilities. However, in reality OM seems better because sex is in the head (between the ears). The best example of this is phone sex where WW has an explosive orgasm. Obviously this has nothing to do with technique-----it is all between the ears.
We cannot compete with the thrill of an insecure unstable secret relationship where the meetings are sporadic and all the mundane things are filtered out. However, we know this phase is always transient and tends to fall apart when the affairees try to live with each other 24/7 and there are no more secrets. Virtually all of these relationships fail in the open. I believe I once explained this to Gemela in great detail. I know for a fact that my wife Myrta understands this concept very well. One instant after d-day Myrta knew by intuition that her OM was only good as a secret-------not in the open. This was a plus for our recovery.
This brings me to what is really important about the WW:
If the WW feels the OM is superior to the H (whether right or wrong) she will have a great deal of difficulty leaving the affair behind.
If the WW realizes OM cannot compete with her H she will give up OM in a relatively easy manner and the withdrawal will be short.
In your case I worry about the youth of OM. You cannot compete with that. In my case OM was only three years younger than me and his only advantage was that of providing endless admiration. I can compete with that-------if I give Myrta the attention she needs she will not miss OM at all.
But, don't give up, I suspect that Gemela also wanted attention and admiration and the fact that OM was young was just a coincidence. The overwhelming majority of men and women that have affairs are attention and admiration seekers. IMHO, that tends to be the No. 1 EN for them. Nothing wrong with that---we all like attention.
Post D-day some WS want to fix marriage whereas others want out. Obviously the latter is an uphill battle. Myrta and I seem to be working well together because we both want the marriage. If the spouses are less than 100% committed, there is trouble. Even then------ we still have problems. I often wonder about my outburst of anger several weeks ago-----maybe I have something similar top Post traumatic Stress Disorder where one is triggered all the way back to d-day.
I cannot tell you if letting Gemela go back to Mexico is the right or the wrong thing. What does Gemela wants? What do you want?
Have you asked Gemela is she wants to fix the marriage?
I hope you don't mind me dropping in on your thread. Just thought I'd offer another opinion to the mix. My Ex was on the fence and didn't know whether he was coming or going. I don't think it has to do with love so much. As Mrs. W said, they are seeking happiness from outside when it is they who need to change inside.
So, along comes someone who makes them feel alive again - young, witty, attractive. The world is my oyster! They erroneously come to the conclusion that it is their destiny to be with this person. However, it is a huge gamble, a risk. There are no guarantees. It is a fantasy that has not been exposed to the real world yet. And they will never truly know that until they leap off that cliff without their spouse. They just can't crash while they still have us in their lives. It's not love that keeps them chasing the other person. It's the cord that connects them to us that keeps them chasing.
P.S. I do enjoy your sense of humor and the banter with your boy toy Todd!
First of all thanks to everyone for posting while I was getting the first good night's sleep I have had in 5 days. That was not related to the A BTW - just an unfortunate set of consecutive coincidences. Done and dusted.
Stanley,
I appreciate the dissection. I don't disagree. I don't know if Mexico will be good or bad. I think I need the "break" now. Let gemela face her family and maybe see things in a different perspective. I don't know. All I know is if we keep going the way we are, I will soon be dividing up the house with tape and fighting for more square footage. As far as competing with the OM, I think I am doing much better in gemela's mind. I lift weights daily. That is a subtle thing for her but I can see she notices. It gets back to ToddAC's original advice that latin women like to see strength. I started lifting again for no other reason than that. I have gained 20 lbs and still not increased my waist size. In fact it went down. I am working on adding another 10-15 and I will be where I personally want to be.
I guess that, up to this point, gemela has had no real problems as a result of her A. My feeling is that she has it all and has had no need to give up anything. I did a great Plan A (regardless of what cc46 says). Gemela is living the country club life. She has the admiration of all who know her. She has friends and socializes. She has not seen ant real negative consequences of having an A, IMO. I have done all this to allow her time for withdrawal and time to decide if she wants to commit to the marriage. IMO she has not chosen to commit. If I ask her if she wants to fix the marriage, the way she will put it is that she thinks things are getting better and that, in time, she hopes we can put all this behind us. In other words, let's just forget the A ever happened.
For me, her going to Mexico will be the first real negative consequence of her having the A. I am not intending it as a punishment. I would prefer she stayed and made a commitment. Even a continued Plan A I could deal with. But riding instructors, lasagna, etc. remind me that she has zero respect for my feelings. I don't know how long she will be in Mexico. That is mostly her choice. I think she probably does need to spend some time with MIL and SIL. We have to do something besides what we are currently doing.
I do think she is trying to do some subtle things. She is actively trying to get the MC scheduled. That was one of my requirements. If we can get some time in MC before the trip, that could change things significantly. I am leaving that door open. But it will be up to her. If we do go to MC, it will be because she arranged it. I am not going to do it for her. If she wants to stay here, is she willing to put out any effort to accomplish that?
I woke her up at 4:30 AM and we worked out together. That was her request. She says she prefers to work out with me rather than alone. One more hour together.
BK,
Yes that had occurred to me but that is the problem. I can't know for sure - and it bothers me. It brings back the paranoia. It is a trigger. My instinct is that she doesn't really have a phone. I have not made much effort to look for one. But I have looked a little. It bothers me that I looked a little. It bothers me for several reasons:
1) It reminds me I can't trust WW. 2) If I am giving up on the M, why do I care? 3) I am still obsessing. 4) Why am I trying to control her behavior?
This is probably the most troubling of anything that has happened in weeks.
Shattered05,
I do think it has been advantageous for WW to maintain the fantasy in her mind. There is no benefit her psychologically, spiritually or emotionally to let it die. The fantasy makes her happy. To admit it was wrong goes against her very strong religious faith. Better to believe it was right. Emotionally, killing the fantasy destroys her hope. Right now she has everything and has had to sacrifice nothing. Even the OM being gone is beneficial to her. If he were here, the fantasy could not survive.
Right now my plans are set based on the environment I find myself in. let's see what the MC says (if we go). That may change a lot of things. I hope she has better advice than eating Thai food. I have never asked her what her qualifications are but I am going to if I see her again. I don't see how not being allowed to talk about the A is a good thing - especially one year after the fact.
"boy toy Todd". I really wish I had never confessed to the EA with him. Fortunately we have been able to keep it under the MB radar screen. Besides - he is cheating on me with 20 girls from another infidelity forum. Personally I can't see how he does it. Women! And I was sure he was my soulmate!
If I couldn't laugh about all this, I would likely be crying instead. Keeping a sense of humor keeps me sane (or as reasonably close as I'll ever be).
I have been trying for days to figure out how to put an HTML table into a post without any success.
Over the past few weeks I have been putting together a spreadsheet of advantages of housemaid versus WW. I am including it here in case it might helps some other BH in his decision process. Since I can't do the table, I will present it as best i can:
Description: Toilet seat position doesn't matter - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Can pee in the shower - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Can sleep with the TV on - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Clothes are washed - [color:"red"] Even [/color] Clothes are ironed - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Garden is clean - [color:"red"] Even [/color] Breakfast gets prepared - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Dress kids for school - [color:"red"] Even [/color] Makes kids lunch - [color:"red"] Even [/color] Babysit kids in afternoon - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Babysit kids at night or on weekend - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Sex - [color:"red"] Advantage WW[/color] Conversation - [color:"red"] Advantage WW[/color] Companionship - [color:"red"] Neither[/color] Clean house - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Wash dishes (we have a machine) - [color:"red"] Even [/color] More economical - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] I can walk around house partially clothed - [color:"red"] Advantage WW[/color] More closet space - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] I'll be really lonely - [color:"red"] Even [/color]
I will keep this updated as I think it is really important.
More advantages:
Go 3 or 4 days without a shower - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Save on deodorant - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] Change underwear once a week - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color] No clogged sink or shower drains- [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
As far as bathing every day, I live in Saudi Arabia. I will fit right in. I used to think BO was BO. You know how the eskimos supposedly have 200 words for snow? We have almost that many for BO here. I never knew there were so many different kinds. What is really bad is that even the elevators here have BO. And garlic being a staple of the diet for many of the nationalities represented here just gives it that extra special boquet.
I often think it odd that women of certain cultures wear such beautiful clothing--shimmering fabric, graceful folds, gorgeous stitching--and yet don't seem to take any notice whatsoever that their smell is at complete odds with their appearance.
Our first housemaid in Dubai was named Chandy. She was Sri Lankan. We could not let her go anywhere in the car with us. We tried but it was like pepper spray to the eyes. Poor girl. One day WW made her wash her clothes in kerosene to try to get the smell out. Didn't work. (Kerosene was a new one for me BTW). Finally one day she asked the maid if she used deodorant. Maid said no. We started buying her deodorant.
The vast majority of the world's population is not concerned about BO. We the minority are offended by it.
And more power to us, that's what I say! I'd rather have a patient whose natural, um, scent is disguised, eliminated, or at least tamped down, than somebody who insists on au naturel!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
While I don't disagree with your "scentiment", this is a battle that cannot be won where I live. On the other hand, ever spent much time in France? They don't bath much either. They just go with the eau (de toilette).
Actually many of the perfumes here are quite disgusting and cloying. For many people, the BO is preferable to their attempts to hide it.
Then again, why are we even talking about this? Yeech!
Pio, I know you don't hold out much hope. I didn't (couldn't because they're in Spanish) read all of gemela's posts but I REALLY think you are doing the right thing here.
I think it's a Plan B that will work. I mean, really, the pool guy, come on.
I know I sound pessimistic but if I didn't have any hope, I would be filing for divorce.
I just wanted to say thanks for your support. I has now and in the past meant a lot. Now you get no more nice from me ever because tears are welling in my eyes and I hate that.
Pio - doesn't everyone pee in the shower? Bath no, shower yes! Swimming pool no, sea yes. But as long as you hose down the shower after - what's the difference between wife or maid on that point.
You might have a bit of trouble culturally with an Ethiopian maid and how she brings up your children. Has she worked for westerners before?
As for BO, I live in the sweatiest of climates from Jun-Sept. We have 95% humidity most of the time. Yet the Chinese people don't smell at all. They don't use deo much but their body chemistry is so different. On the underground train in London in Summer it is rank, but here it is totally inoffensive. But you go into the Indian shops for spices and things and they have a really strong body odour. Can't be just a food thing cos the Chinese eat stacks of garlic. TT
Well if they don't, they should. They have no idea what they are missing.
I had a friend years ago who made the observation that he and his wife were the only ones who ever used their bath house. All their friends and neighbors could come over and be in the pool for hours and never have to get out of the pool to pee. He became quite obsessed with this. He asked me what to do so I recommended he lace the pool water with phenylthalene as a pH indicator. That way the water would turn pink around a person if they peed in the water. It was a good plan. Unfortunately phenylthalene has "side effects". Don't they know you aren't supposed to "drink" the pool water? Bath house got a lot of use though.
My son has been pulling this lately. The toilet in his bathroom broke and I have been meaning to get around to figuring out how to fix it. It used to run all time so I went out and bought new parts and WH installed them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Ummmmmmm, okay, thanks bud, but I'm back to square one.
Anyhow, there ARE two other bathrooms in the house but in the middle of the night it is apparently too much of a trip for the little lad. I was horrified when I realized what was going on. The kid can pitch a strike right over home plate but can't seem to get his little winky in the ballpark of a urinal. Revoking priviledges, threats, etc. nothing works. I had to bite my tongue from saying I was going to cut that thing off if he couldn't find the toilet bowl.
Regarding the BO, I know it is our culture. But being born of said culture, I cannot tolerate the odor. I can't understand how it doesn't bother them. It's not a pleasant odor, like flowers. And the garlic? Not a pretty picture you are painting here.
It is very interesting though how we always think "our way" is the right way. I believe this very same concept contributes to the downfall of many a marriage.
I am not joking about elevator BO. They do have it. It is odd though that no matter who the people are, what their individual BO is like, elevator BO is always the same. My last house in Dubai was four floors and had its own elevator. It took weeks to get the BO out.
LOL, Pio you are a very funny man in your own dry way.
That was not a very pretty picture you painted of your wife on tear's thread. You painted a picture of a very shallow woman. Is that how you really feel?
I was extremely nice to WW this weekend because it was her birthday. There were several times where that was really difficult. My WW is a twin. Her sister is responsible and takes care of her family. The SIL only has six pairs of shoes. I look at gold and think what I could do for my DDs. I did get them an inflatable water slide. The slide was just about the same price as a white gold bracelet. WW doesn't need these adornments to be pretty. I don't know why she feels she does. Yes the bracelets really bothered me. I don't know why. I think my WW has become spoiled. I think she buys things to try to make herself happy. I just view it differently. The woman I married would not act that way.
We talked a little about the separation. I told her that I honestly believed she would never come back. I told her she needed to find something that would really make her happy. I didn't think it was me. I told her she was welcome to come back, I wanted her to come back but only if she was really finally ready to work on our marriage. If not, I would be just fine without her. That mad her sad and she cried. I didn't apologize. I just worked to lighten the mood and finally succeeded.
I think Plan B will be such a welcome relief. I need a break from this Plan A. I told her that I believed she would get to Mexico and spend time with her family but that sooner or later she would get sad and lonely and she would dial up OM. I told her I really wished she would give it a go with him and see if she could work it out. She has already destroyed her marriage and her family. Seems a shame to stop now and always wonder what she might have had with OM. I told her that when she is in Mexico, we will not be talking at all. She asked why. I said that we each needed our time and space without complications. I told her that we only have a few weeks left together and that I want to spend them pleasantly.
She asked if I wanted to talk about the A. I said it was too late for that. She has had a whole year and has continually avoided it. If she is not willing to help me heal, I'll do it on my own. This was not said in anger. It was all very calm.
Well I filled up the double door to the office yesterday. I did a great job BTW. Spent an hour and a half ripping 2/4's down to 2.5" wide but it was worth it. We moved everything out of the office and made a bedroom for the Amazon woman maid. We rearranged the living, dining room and bedroom to accommodate the loss of one room of the house. WW was sad. She said she hoped we were doing the right thing. I told her that we had tried everything else and this was all that was left. She needed to find something that would make her happy. I reminded her that she says she has never loved me, that I have never made her happy. She cannot continue to live in this misery and I cannot continue to live with a woman who I love but doesn't love me. I told her that she should give it a go with OM. It seems a shame to have destroyed her family, marriage, religious faith only to stop short. Go all the way. She said that maybe it wasn't real. Maybe it really was just a fantasy. I told her that as long as she still believed in it, there was only one way to find out.
I told her that even though I had never made her happy, she had made me blissfully happy for 8 years and I would not trade those 8 years for anything. I told her that the last two have been a living he11 that I will never go through again.
Believer,
If you read this, I just wanted to say that what you predicted seems to be coming true.
Yesterday I got some bread and folded the bag back under and placed it back on the shelf. WW told me to get that bag back out and tie it. She inherited from her mother an inhuman ability to tie very small knots. I cannot do it. I got mad. Very mad. I told her that she could tie it herself if she wanted to and handed her the bag and I left the room. She came up later and tried to make light of it. I let the anger pass. This morning I simply told her if she doesn't like the way I fold the bread bag, she can stop throwing away the twisty ties, she can buy a tupperware breadbox, she can do a lot of things but I never want to hear another word about tying a knot in the bag ever again. She said "okay".
Still looking for your email. Not knowing what your email address will be, I have unfortunately purchased a 5 year supply of cialis (don't need it yet anyway) and two different systems to lose 25 pounds in 30 days. I really don't like hotmail. Spam filters just don't work.
Actually, now that I think about it, I am going to lose 110 lbs in 30 days.
I just had to do a google search to check out Cialis. Never heard of it before.
Pio - Your actions will bring her back to you. I'm pretty sure by letting her go, she'll wallow in misery and realise what she is missing. Meanwhile, way to go with the Amazon lady. I hope she cooks a mean curry and is kind to your little girls. TT
Well, it's a darn good thing I stumbled onto your new thread. I last saw you in the Suzet* thread. Are you aware that KiwiJ. puts a . after her name? Talk about tricky! Much more subtle than *.
For the record, I am no "boy toy". I am a "man toy" and Pio knows it.
I stay away for two weeks and come back to find you peeing in the shower and arguing over twisty ties on a bread bag. Good thing I returned.
Pio, when you told WW that you didn't want to live with a woman whom you loved but she didn't love you, what did she say? Did she counter that in fact she did love you? Or was her silence deafening?
SIL thinks WW needs to go to Mexico, right? Does SIL have a vision of a healing trip to Mexico or an escape from SA?
Maybe I spelled it wrong. I'll let you know for sure in two weeks when my 6 different 60 day supplies (plus 60 day bonus free for being one of the first 1000 to repond) arrive. I am guessing, by context, that it is a sex enhancing drug. Or hair regrowth. Or weight loss. Must be one of those things to be on my hotmail account.
ToddAC,
I can give up peeing in the shower but the bread bag knot is a deal breaker. I have personally done experiments by measuring relative humidty inside and outside the bag to compare the efficiency of sealing from twisty ties, knots and folds. Relative humidty is a good indication of air exchange. I find folds just as efficient as anything else.
She did not say anything. Her silence was not deafening either. I get the impression she realizes she has dug herself into a very deep hole and does not know how to get out of it. She knows she has lied so much that I can't believe her no matter what she says. I think that is why she stays silent. She wants to say things but realizes she doesn't know how IMO.
SIL AFAIK is staying out of it. I don't know what she wants nor do I care. I would guess that SIL is just glad that WW is going to Mexico rather than England.
A few minutes ago I was lying on the couch after lunch and WW came in to see if I was ready to go back to work. We commented over the filled in door and how well it turned out. I said the only thing I was not happy about was the stairmaster in the living room. She said she wasn't either. I replied that she did not have to worry about it much longer but I did and I laughed. She looked sad.
Why don't you give her a way out? Perhaps the threat of separation will snap her back to reality?
RE: peeing in the shower is unappreciated I believe. I am done it since puberty. It is a very warm feeling. One of these days, I may even try it with the water running.
Some words are just too hard to write. I think you are taking "laugh" too seriously. I am not into lexicon as you are so you may have to help. It certainly wasn't a harumph and I don't think it was a chortle but mainly that is because I don't really know what chortle means. Snicker? No - that is too sinister. It was just a little lighthearted sound (half-laugh?) to let her know that I was not reporaching her in any way and that I was treating the moment with good humor (humour for TT) in a good natured way.
I have been trying to give her opportunities for the past year. I am done in. She needs time to be alone and decide what she wants in her life. I need time to be alone to try and heal from the A. She refuses to help me and she continues to hurt me. The lasagna incident was classic and reminded me how little respect she has for me and my feelings. If WW never loved me, I never had a marriage to try to save anyway. As Myrta said, my marriage was "kaput" a long time ago. Now we just have to deal with the fallout.
I am way ahead on that one. Our agreement is that when she let's me know that she has made a decision that she will definitely not be coming back, I will send her things to wherever she wants them. We don't have a time limit on that. Her going to Mexico is to give her time to make a decision as to what she wants for her life. I have told her my preference would be for her to choose to come back but only if she is willing to give it her all for the marriage. I am in no hurry one way or the other. It is not like I am going to start looking for a new Mrs. WW.
I don't expect that she will give me her decision within a couple of months but it doesn't matter if she does. I will ship the things but I will not pay the importation duties and especially if the things are going to Mexico. I have already had several experiences shipping things to Mexico and they were all bad. Once she bought a pair of shoes for her sister in the USA that cost about $50 and I paid another $30 to ship them via DHL so that they would most likely not be stolen. [Regular mail is not that reliable] The importation duty was $250 - AND SIL REFUSED TO PAY IT!
When we sent her Mom back to Mexico from Muscat, we sent a couple of boxes of her clothes via air freight. The importation duty was several thousand dollars. The clothes weren't worth that and could have been replaced for less. Eventually they paid a bribe to clear the goods for much less but it took months.
I don't know if it is still in place or not but Mexico has or had a 500% import duty on goods from China. Since almost everything is made in China any more, well...
Not really a time limit. I have thought more in terms of a time minimum. There may be some practical limitations on how much time I could wait. I think that I could easily go two years without being forced to do something else (like lose my job, etc.) If WW runs off to OM, then that means that she made her choice. I will never let her come back if she goes with him. She knows that.
I seriously doubt I will ever be interested in a woman again. I was happily married for 8 years to a woman who says she never loved me. I am easily fooled I guess. I was betrayed by the one person I trusted the most. How can I ever think of getting involved with another woman? I will spend my time and my life on my DDs. They need me.
Well two years is more a practical limit at which I could start to have problems with my visa here in Saudi or, more specifically, the visas of the DDs. I have a few options available to me but will wait and see what the best choice is at that time.
To be quite honest, I have told WW that, although I want her to come back, I don't believe she will. I am taking the mindset that once she goes to Mexico, that is pretty much it so whether it is 2 years or 200 years, I can't see that it makes much difference. I am not going to sit around hoping and praying that she comes back. I am going to get on with my life as best as I can. Her choices are hers alone.
Pio, I only know that I couldn't have done it. Separated for any length of time at all. Every time Rob even MENTIONED separation I just fell apart.
How is she REALLY about all this? Is she as calm as you write?
This is still the only way for you and her I think. It's very sad but you sound so resolute. I admire your courage. Seriously, not being smart, it takes a great deal of courage to do what you're doing.
My feeling is that it is still not real to her (or me for that matter) but something has to give. We cannot continue like we are. This A is just not going to go away as a bad memory with time. Yes she is calm. I don't know why. We don't discuss it. I draw the line at talking about the separation or what her plans are because I recognize that what she does is none of my business. Her life is hers to live as she sees fit. If she wants to really work on the M, I am totally willing to do that. I just haven't seen any signs of it.
I am so sorry for her. I am more sorry for the DDs. I don't want anyone to suffer but the affair was her choice. I have given her every opportunity for almost a year to return to the M but she won't. These are her choices and the consequences of those choices. Lately the A has been hurting me very much. I am not showing her any of that. She is the one who has been pushing for a "break" for some time. If she would be willing to talk about things, maybe this would be a bit easier. I really do think she wants some time alone to get her thoughts together. How much time? No idea.
Am I resolute? No, this is tearing me apart but I just can't face lemonman's abuse if I change now - mainly because he would be right.
Have you ever seen videos of people being led to the block here in Saudi for capital punishment? They go so quietly. The trick is they bleed them first. They have no energy to fight.
I have just been bleeding from my broken heart so long and WW refuses to help me let it heal. I have no energy left to fight.
This really is your only choice then. Do you think you WILL have some sort of heart to heart before she goes?
I still think she will come to some sort of realisation while she's away - I mean the right sort of realisation. If she doesn't she's a very silly woman. To be honest, the thought of a woman on the verge of separation buying gold bracelets at your expense did not endear her to me.
I don't know what else to say. I still think it takes courage to do what you're doing.
For some reason the word "courage" seems strange. There is only one good option here and it is not my choice to make.
Forgot to mention. I found out last night that the house maid is NOT from Ethiopia - She is from Eritrea! I feel like this is a setup! OTOH maybe she was orignally from Ethiopia and then became like Tom Hanks in "The Terminal" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I am headed to Bahrain for three days (business trip) and am taking WW and DDs along. We should be back on Friday. I doubt I'll check email while there.
I dont want to bother you, but, you sound like a victim here... even Im a WS I want to be objective in this, and even and A is a choice I think building a marriage on proof of an affair is an issue for both (you and your wife).
Sorry my english is awful..
I think main reason, that is keeping away from you wife (emotional way) is another thing that you havent worked yet....
You sound so hurt, and angry, you always refers to your wife as a WS, (even we are here in MB) it has been a long time since D day. Do you think is normal? I think you havent forgive her. I know that she is a WS and called him wife is not changing the fact that she was a WS.. but I think you are still hurt, and maybe more hurt than days before D day.. becuase you are convinced that she havent done And even you say yes you havent put all you effort in doing you M work.
For my own experience is so difficult to put all your love in someone that apparently is not giving you back any love as a response, or any commitment. I dont know your wife version of all this. And to make a marriage works just for one spouse is not easy, no matter if you are the BS or WS, and alone, is worst, we should ask for help.
You always let us clear that is "ws choice", as she has the solution... even she returns from her trip convinced that she wants to stay with you, I think the problem is not solved... is not just her....
In this year past from D day, Can you tell me what had you done in order to help you M? Why arent you in counseling? even she doesnt want help, you need it...its easy to justify ourselves.. How much have you changed for yourself? Have you know all her needs? Have you filled all?
You sounds angry, and worry about money also,.... are you a "avaro" man? sorry I dont know the word in english, when someone doesnt want to spent lot money even if he has enough.... I know its a big effort to earn money, a lot of sacrifice, and is not funny is someone spent it withour reason, but I dont understand why if you said that you are not fighting with your wife..why you are not going to pay to send her things, if she decided not to continue in your marriage.. for me thats is a sign that you are still mad, with her,, and even all you are not been her friend....
Do you know why she married with you? Do you know why she accept to live so far not just from her relatives, also from her country, and customs?
I think you are trying to manipulate her with money stuffs... and how do you say in english? this steanks, esto apesta....
tell me, how much piojitos man have changed in order to fill his wife needs? do you know what things she hates from you? have you tried to avoid to do that?
I have understood that we havent to expect to change anyone, and we need to teach with our example, and if you want commitment you should show this first in you M... if you want to be loved, you should love first.... Once I read, dont ask yourself "why she doesnt love me?" ask yourself, "have I been an adorable person?" or something like that, the idea is to understand that we should put all our effort for be the best spouse, and sometimes this works better, that give just expecting something as a result of our giving...
You can buy her expensive presents, and this is not important, you cant buy her heart, and if you dont want to buy her an expensive present now, DONT DO IT!!! as a mexican woman I prefer to receive any present but a sincere present, nor an expensive one withoout love, or not sincere... eso APESTA.. sorry, Im a romantic woman. (or silly if you want to call it that way)
I know you can be a happy man with time and even without your wife, if you decided to get divorce, anyone here is indispensable..... but you cant said "it was her decision..." or my "M was over because she had an A... or she was a WS".
Why did you get in love with her? because of her youngth (juventud), her beauty, her thoughts, her sense of humor, her way of made love, ,,,, why, you tell me?
Once a MB member tell me that even we want to give up to our M we need to be sincere with ourselves and ask us if he have done everything is on our hands... not because or sons , because us, and because we want to spent our life with our spouse.... This member told me "you should try everything, and not to decide anything if you are mad"
I dont know hole case,,, but I think age differences is having a role here... my grandfather was 20 years old older than my grandmother and even my mother told me thatn when she was in school (8 -12 years old) she said that she was embarrassed sometimes because her friends thought her father was her grandfather.. she with time learned that people can say anything, but main thing was that her parents were in love, and their marriage last all their lifes.... I think even they have their problems they were happy...
When did you stop to be her best friend? do you remember why?
I dont want to bother you, but, you sound like a victim here... even Im a WS I want to be objective in this, and even and A is a choice I think building a marriage on proof of an affair is an issue for both (you and your wife).
You might want to rewrite that in Spanish because I really don't understand what you are trying to say. I think trying to rebuild a marriage after an affair is an issue for almost everyone. It is a little difficult to say "oops - little mistake. let's just let bygones be bygones.". Not to mention the fact that I have a very painful reminder (the HPV). Just a tad difficult to forget it ever happened. I have been working hard (IMO) to try to keep the marriage going for almost a year with little or no help from gemela. It is a bit difficult to continue to love someone when they continue to not love you. I was thinking this morning that now she is telling me that she loves me but then I remembered that she used to tell me that all the while she was having her affair. So it really has little meaning when she says it.
I don't remember where I said I have not been putting all my effort into the M. I feel it is quite the opposite. I have suffered and endured every pain and humiliation to try to keep us alive. I see very little effort on gemela's part.
I agree that it takes us both to make the marriage work. But until she begins to make some serious effort, I am no longer interested in trying. If she ever does come back to our home, I agree that it will take a huge effort on my part. I hope I am strong enough for that. First and foremost is that (and I have told gemela this) I don't believe she ever will come back. I believe she will wait a few weeks in Mexico and then decide to call OM again. Whatever happens after that is unimportant because our marriage will truly be over forever. There will be no going back if she starts up her A again.
We are not in counseling because gemela has not yet committed to R. If she would ever make that decision, we would go to counseling. We spent months in counseling where she was promising to work on the marriage and all the while she was secretly calling the OM daily. Even the MC told us we were wasting our time. The problem is she is a very convincing liar and the MC believes anything she says. We can't rebuild a marriage on lies. Until gemela learns to start telling the truth, the effort is wasted.
You will have to ask gemela how much she believes I have changed. I have my opinion but hers is the only one that matters.
Am I worried about money? No. I just find gemela's spending habits to be frivolous and a slap in my face. I don't understand why we are going out and spending thousands of dollars on gold bracelets just because she needs something to match some earrings when we are about to separate - probably forever. Maybe she is just building up an inventory of things to sell. I really don't know. It just bothered me. I never said I would not send her things. I said quite the opposite. I will pay to send her things. I just am not willing to write the aduana a blank check for importation. If you have never imported things into Mexico, you have no idea how corrupt they are. I used to manage an international business in Mexico. I do have some idea.
Since gemela won't discuss the A or problems in our marriage, I have no way of knowing if I am meeting or not meeting her needs. Gemela just wants this all to go quietly away. I can't accept that. My feeling is that gemela really does want to leave but is afraid to. I think she is going to discover that she will do quite well back in Mexico and she will be very happy being close to her mother and father and her twin sister. That is all she really needs. Once she has a stable home and location, we will share custody of the kids.
Yes she could have a change of heart and decide that she wants to give the marriage a try. If so, we will try. But I doubt that will happen. I don't hold my breath anyway. Psychologically I am preparing myself to be a single parent and I am pretty excited about it to tell you the truth.
I have no plans for the future - marriage to gemela, divorce, nothing. My only plan is to start on this new adventure and take it as it comes. We will both do what is best to help the DDs get through this transition. I am just trying to survive the next 22 days in a positive attitude. My heart is in autopilot at the moment and I do not want to do anything to upset the balance during these next three weeks. It has taken us a year to get to where we are now. Nothing is going to change in three weeks.
Sorry tear but I am a little angry over this concept of romantic presents and buying love. I do not buy gemela gold bracelets to buy her love. I buy them because she wants them and believes she needs them for a reason I have yet to understand. I do not consider these romantic gifts and never have.
On the other hand, I am angry about "romantic gifts". This is a tactic OM used and I think they all use. This is kind of like the "perfect rose" on Desperate Housewives. It is really easy for an OM to be romantic. He doesn't have to clean up vomit, sit in the ER with sick daughters, massage WW's back for half an hour last night because she couldn't move.
I drive WW's car and stop by the gas station so WW won't have to. I clean up the kitchen in the morning to give her a little extra time to relax. I turn up the AC and sweat all night because WW is cold. I do these things because I love her. She doesn't even notice and I don't tell her about them. I don't spend much money on "romantic" gifts. I do know the difference. I think WW's must believe that life is a Harlequin romance. The reality is that marriage is not always wining and dining, not always romantic gestures. It can include them but it can be paint drying boring at times too.
The reason WW buying gold bracelets bothered me so much is that it makes me believe she is in complete denial of our problem. She is still locked up in her fantasy only now it is a fantasy of a happy marriage.
Just an FYI Cialis (Levitra & Viagra) are ED (impotence) drugs. I did not garner this information first hand, my brother set up a captive for one of those companies. But I don't have to tell you that Pio, you are right on target when you said that if it is coming from hotmail, you can be sure you are about to be growing something, be it more hair, larger body parts, etc.
Sorry Todd, I stand corrected. I didn't realize you and Pio were peers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Tear, I know you mean well but our spouses usually aren't leaving us because we are unwilling to change. They are usually leaving because they are chasing a fantasy and they seem to be locked on the vision of our marriages at their most unhappy times (usually because of the affair). Us folks here at MB are all about the change: ready, willing and able. Some spouses use what they perceive as our weaknesses to rationalize their affairs so they don't want to hear anything about how to make the marriage better. Once they have leapt into the affair the time for change has usually passed until the affair is dead.
Quote
I seriously doubt I will ever be interested in a woman again.
Pio, I hope you don't mind me chuckling at this. I have thought this too but I know it is not true. You will heal and you WILL live to love again.
Quote
I was happily married for 8 years to a woman who says she never loved me. I am easily fooled I guess.
Pio, you know this is not true. You know in your heart of hearts that the two of you were very much in love with each other. So many of them say that, it's nonsense, just let it roll off of you. It's called revisionist history and it is done once again to excuse the inexcusable. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You have even contradicted yourself:
Quote
I still remember how you cared for me when my job was eliminated in Mexico and we had to move to Dubai. I had so much doubt but you never wavered in your support of me. That is the wife I would like to have back some day.
One more thing - your Plan B letter. If I were you I might start a new thread just for feedback on the letter. My own Plan B letter was chewed up and spit back out here so from experience I can tell you it needs to be very short, a love letter, and should contain an olive branch for her to come back to you. You'll get more feedback if you post a new thread for it.
Piojitos, I have never posted directly to you before. I just wanted to let you know that I read this thread and you seem like quite a remarkable man. I am sorry that you are going through such a difficult time. I wish the best for you.
Sorry Todd, I stand corrected. I didn't realize you and Pio were peers.
I hardly consider ToddAC a "peer". He is nowhere near my equal! Of course I can say that because he is on haitus for a few weeks and can't retort.
Thanks Shattered05. I do understand and don't disagree but my understanding of the truth and WW's understanding of the truth are different things. I have come to find out that only her version seems to matter in the greater scheme of things.
I am not sure what tear is on about. Her post did/does bother me a bit. I think she projects a little into my situation and maybe that frustrates her at times. Her sitch is very different but she doesn't always see that.
I am a little sad this AM so please excuse me. We finally told the DD's last night that Mom is going to Mexico alone and the rest of us are going elsewhere. We did not say that Mom is not coming back. We can do that later. One thing at a time. We basically agreed on a good lie. We told them that Abuelita is sick and Mom needs to go tend to her for a while. Mom is NOT going to Cancun. DD2 took it very well. She said "okay - can I go back to my room and play with my Gameboy now?". DD1 took it much as expected. Tears, anger, tantrum, etc. This took about an hour to calm down but we did. I told gemela that it is critical that we maintain this lie because DD1 will probe it and probe it to try to find a different solution. DD1 is very persistent.
I told WW that we would maintain this same lie here among all our friends and neighbors. On the off chance that she does ever come back, there is no point in making her a pariah. I have exposed to everyone that mattered expect FIL but I have urged WW to tell him and all her family the truth once she is in Mexico. I won't help her lie to her family. Should we have told the DDs the truth? I don't know. Mainly we did not because we have no idea what the outcome will be. Some day I think they should know everything (assuming they will still remember this) but not until they are much older.
I was asking myself this last weekend if maybe we were not making a mistake. We are getting along so well. But I decided we are getting along so well because we ARE about to separate. Nothing has fundamentally changed so the reason for separation is still valid. I think we both feel the pressure being eased. It does break my heart to see DD1 cry. I hate that it has come to this. I was so tempted to DJ and LB WW last night but I didn't say a word. But I do remember that the A was gemela's choice and I have given her almost a year to get into recovery with no success so, whether she likes it or not, she owns this.
I did guess what Cialis was by context. I am a bit stressed by my hotmail. I don't really know what to do. Maybe it is the depression that makes me indecisive. I think it is the depression - no, I don't - yes - no. Oh I DON'T KNOW! What I am struggling with is that I want to lose the 25 pounds in 30 days but can I increase the size of my "manhood" by 30% during that same time I am reducing or do I need to do one and then the other? If I increase the size of my manhood first, will the 25 lb reduction in 30 days eliminate that gain even though the manhood ad claims it is permanent? I just don't know what to do but I need to make a decision in a hurry to get in shape for the 117 h0rneyh0usew1ves who keep sending me emails!
When I say I may never be interested in a woman again it is not that I don't like woman or I find them unattractive. The basic issue is trust. I know now that I can never fully trust anyone ever again. Okay maybe I was wrong to trust gemela to begin with. My mistake. But it goes against my fundamental belief structure to think I cannot trust my spouse who promised me before God that she would be faithful to me. I have a lot of internal rewiring to do before I can think about women again. I think I'll just move in with ToddAC instead. A bit like the movie "Grumpy Old Men".
I am only sorry my DDs are going through it. I would do anything I could to prevent that. I know that the next few months are going to be especially hard on them and I have to be here for them. It is hard to know the right thing to say sometimes. This is virgin territory. Last night DD1 threw a tantrum and said some bad things to both of us. I told her it was okay for her to be angry and I understood that but she needed to be more careful about the things she said and did while angry (okay - pot/kettle I know). So we finally agreed that she could still be angry but she read me a bedtime story anyway and kissed me goodnight and then went to sleep. I think being a single parent is going to keep me very busy.
Pio, not a lot to say. You're doing the best you can under difficult circumstances.
The more time that elapses between when I saw the OM and now, the more I realise I have the best man. Rob is quadruple, no trilliluple (I just made that word up) the man that OM is.
When the fantasy disappears, the reality is amazing.
Please let gemela find this out for herself. I'm asking God that BTW not you.
Whichever way this goes, your DDs have you and they could do a lot worse. That's a compliment by the way.
Thanks for the words of support. I am really holding up okay. Last night was hard but we knew it would happen. It will get better.
To be quite honest, I think (I am sure I have posted this before) that gemela could quite easily go to Mexico, spend time with her family, talk to her mother, confess to her priest and eventually have a lightbulb moment and come to her senses. Anything can happen. I am just not trying to be too hopeful. My mindset is for an extended separation. If it turns out to be short-lived, great. I am in no way intending this to be a "punishment" for WW. How could I do that to my girls? I still love WW very much. I have realized that lately. I will miss her very much. There just doesn't seem to be any other good alternative.
To be honest, I don't think WW spends every night crying herself to sleep over the swimming instructor. But I do think she is still caught in the fantasy of the A. I think she is more in love with being in love than with an OP. I liked hiker45's post this AM. It was encouraging and discouraging at the same time. I think WW just needs to step back and look at things as objectively as she can and then decide what she wants.
One thing is for sure. I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely hate infidelity. There is just no good outcome from it in that somebody always gets hurt.
That's what our MC said. Everyone gets hurt. The BS's the WS's.
She said if people knew what was in store for them they wouldn't do it. But repeat performances from people and the fact that BS's can become WS's sort of proves her wrong, unfortunately.
It was so illuminating being inside gemela's head when she was posting here. I'd love to know what's inside it now and I'm sure you would too.
I'd love to know what's inside it now and I'm sure you would too.
I am going to respond to this comment in case it might be useful to some other BS. Basically this is not true at the moment. It was true six months ago but now I feel it is a double-edged sword. I think we are making a good decision on separation based on all the known facts. What is in her head may not be fact (or it might be). But knowing what she is thinking at this moment could very well be counterproductive for long term recovery possibilities (i.e. might influence the decision process).
I don't know for sure one way or the other and I can't. She could tell me she is totally committed to the M, over the A, etc. but then I would be faced with the dilemma of whether or not I could believe she was telling the truth or simply a lie to keep things as they are. I have thought long and hard on this particular issue which is why I feel compelled to post on it.
I can't say what might be right for others but, in my case and under my circumstances, I really don't care to know what gemela is thinking at the moment. I do hope to ask her in the future what she was thinking during this time. I hope I get the chance.
What does she stand to lose by lying? Herein lies the rub.
I understand your point completely. The problem is that she has lost all credibility. How can we overcome that? Lie-detector test? (and yes that thought did occur to me)
I think, at this point, this might be our most fundamental problem - how to tell the truth from the lie.
I cannot find the solution to this no matter how hard I try.
One thing is for sure. I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely hate infidelity. There is just no good outcome from it in that somebody always gets hurt.
Very True Pio.
My wife is livid with OM now. Next stop indifference. (I hope)
I don't care if it is wonderful or not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (I think I am indifferent about indifference - which is wonderful - the indifferent - not the indifference that is)
Although some believe it is in Texas, indifference is actually in the state of Nervana. There are two ways to get there. One is to allow sufficient time. The second is to follow the three-legged dog theory. While the second method is faster, it requires greater discipline.
Ah Ha...maybe I should have read the theory prior to my out of body experience last night and could have prevented some serious drama.
Hit the breaking point and in a rage triggered by lies demanded H get out and even called all kids to have him explain why he would be leaving. Asked him to leave 3 wk ago and he refused...didn't want to traumatize children and says still wants M but no actions to back it up.
Says he has known what he needs to do to rebuild M but to this point he states he has consciously chosen not to do it...
Says he does not want to destroy family and will not leave; says he'll live in the basement if I can't stand to see him
If we are going to survive I need to spin the box as you stated in the 3 legged dog theory and find a view I can live with...
I am deep in the anger phase of the grief process...it suddenly appearred one day last week and I've been internally psycho since
How have you lasted so long in your sitch...really the theory and goal of being there for your girls?
My H said I was selfish for telling the kids about potential separation/D...thinks I should put up with anything to spare the kids...admits he is wrong and actually told all kids that this was all b/c Daddy likes to spend time with OW and not Mommy. My 5yr old may be the next SH...she conducted a mock court session using a hair brush for a gavel and interrogated both of us..."tell one thing you don't like about daddy...ok, now your turn dad. Dad you know you can't date chicks when your married, that equals D..." this went on for at least 20 minutes and the child was right on target about everything.
I told my H that I may have prematurely exposed kids to trauma but his actions and choices resulted in these consequences.
H says this AM he wants to try to slowly work on M by starting to be nice to me and see where it leads without any other conditions/issues etc for now...
I'll be spinning the box today!
Thanks for the insight...I know you must be challenged as well, but I am guessing you have great discipline!
Ah Ha...maybe I should have read the theory prior to my out of body experience last night and could have prevented some serious drama.
Hit the breaking point and in a rage triggered by lies demanded H get out and even called all kids to have him explain why he would be leaving.
I did this very thing. I was hard on us all. I did it after I caught her on a secret cell phone she had hidden in the closet and I read the love messages on it.
Quote
Asked him to leave 3 wk ago and he refused...didn't want to traumatize children and says still wants M but no actions to back it up.
That is pretty common – especially very soon after Dday. I think it took my WW about 8 months after Dday before she started showing any real interest and only after about 4 months of NC. It takes time.
Quote
Says he has known what he needs to do to rebuild M but to this point he states he has consciously chosen not to do it...
Does her state WHY he has chosen not to do it? Does he even understand why?
Quote
Says he does not want to destroy family and will not leave; says he'll live in the basement if I can't stand to see him
Good. The longer he stays in your home, the better your chances of recovery.
Quote
If we are going ! to survive I need to spin the box as you stated in the 3 legged dog theory and find a view I can live with...
I am deep in the anger phase of the grief process...it suddenly appearred one day last week and I've been internally psycho since
Anger is a part of the process. It goes away. It comes back. It ebbs and flows. You think it is gone forever and some innocuous trigger brings it blazing back. I recently went ballistic over lasagna pasta.
Quote
How have you lasted so long in your sitch...really the theory and goal of being there for your girls?
I think the girls have kept me in it to this point. If it weren't for them, I would definitely be separated or divorced. I still love WW but she has not really put forth much effort so I am very tired of it all. I just want to keep my DD's as happy as possible and that includes self-sacrifice. That is part of the job of being a parent. My children didn't ask me to bring them into this world. That was my choice. I have to take complete ownership of the consequences.
Quote
My H said I was selfish for telling the kids about potential separation/D...thinks I should put up with anything to spare the kids...admits he is wrong and actually told all kids that this was all b/c Daddy likes to spend time with OW and not Mommy. My 5yr old may be the next SH...she conducted a mock court session using a hair brush for a gavel and interrogated both of us..."tell one thing you don't like about daddy...ok, now your turn dad. Dad you know you can't date chicks when your married, that equals D..." this went on for at least 20 minutes and the child was right on target about everything.
Maybe you were selfish. Were you? On the other hand, WH has no right to tell you how to behave since you apparently had no right to tell him to not have an affair. WH has to accept you just as you do him. Why did you tell the kids? That is not a criticism. Just an honest question. What was your goal?
Quote
I told my H that I may have prematurely exposed kids to! trauma but his actions and choices resulted in these consequences.
Absolutely. Spot on. Root cause analysis.
Quote
H says this AM he wants to try to slowly work on M by starting to be nice to me and see where it leads without any other conditions/issues etc for now...
Why does he dictate the process? Why don't you have a say? I wouldn't push too hard. It will take both of you a serious amount of time. But you two need to POJA the process.
Quote
I'll be spinning the box today!
You can rationalize anything if you look at it right. Just remember that there are hundreds of people here who swore they would never tolerate an A and yet they are committed to working on their marriages. They are no different from you. You can get there mentally. You just need to navigate the grief process.
Quote
Thanks for the insight...I know you must be challenged as well, but I am guessing you have great discipline!
I think you might be wrong. Actually I do have great discipline – I just have no patience.
***I exposed the kids to the potential separation with the goal of making it real to H. At that moment I wanted him out, didn't think I could take another minute in the same space...I feel like H uses kids as his free pass to behave however he wants b/c he knows I would never intentionally hurt them. I hate what happened last night but I'm not sure if I could do it over I wouldn't do it but just in a more calm and controlled environment. I think it may be real now.
***Why does he choose not to take the necessary steps to rebuild? He says it is b/c he has to give me more than he does other people. He can be superficial, fake, happy and not give more than that to others and they praise, admire and love him. I expect more and it hurts him to have to dig deep and get in touch with his emotions. He has had alot abuse and death in his past and has repressed everybit of it. I think I represent the pain and sufferring he knows he will go thru in having to deal with things that have happend over a decade ago. I think he has hit that point in his own personal journey and is at a crossroads of do I continue to repress or try to heal. I just happen to be in the road.
***Yep, I was selfish in forcing the drama last night. I admit it and have mixed emotions about it. I am all about my kids but our problems have been affecting them much more than H knows he is gone 18 hours 5d/wk (by choice) and 6-8 hr/d on w/e. He is overly involved with work and is "trying to find balance". He was stay-at-home dad for 10 yr and just this yr is back to work and doing awesome but at the expense of all of us. I support his career as he has done mine for past 10 yr but I never lost sight of my family and always spent family time everyday regardless. I have the same expectations of H. He says he is struggling with this.
I have been the dictator for years regarding our family mostly b/c H doesn't like to make decisions. I guess maybe it's a powerstruggle as far as him setting the conditions for rebuilding??? I tried to set boundaries and conditions but totally ineffective since he could have cared less and that's why he says he knows exactly what he needs to do.
I said that I felt like he should be bending over backwards to prove to me A over and he is committed to M...he agreed but stated he chose not too up to this point. Don't know what the future holds and not sure he has a clue. I had asked for a recovery plan, asked for MC or at least him in IC...this was all weeks ago. Been plan Aing thru two A's in past 4 months with #2 ended 3wk ago.
I've followed your thread and can relate to most of what you have been through...I'm just about a year behind from your sitch.
Piojitos, I have never posted directly to you before. I just wanted to let you know that I read this thread and you seem like quite a remarkable man. I am sorry that you are going through such a difficult time. I wish the best for you.
T/J MEDC - I have a non-MB question to ask you. Would you mind sending me an email please to my address below? Thanks MEDC.
Your last post says quite a lot. But one thing that draws my attention is that there are some incongruities and many assumptions. Without trying to sound too critical, one of the biggest mistakes that both the WS and BS make in this process of trying to recover the marriage is to automatically assume something - a thought, behavior or reaction - on the part of the other spouse. You have your H already painted into a pretty small corner. You haven't given him much breathing room. Unless you are a licensed psychologist, don't try analyzing your H so much. If you will stop doing that, it will help BOTH of you tremendously.
I dont want to bother you, but, you sound like a victim here... even Im a WS I want to be objective in this, and even and A is a choice I think building a marriage on proof of an affair is an issue for both (you and your wife).
"no quiero molestarte pero suenas como una víctima de todo esto", apesar de que soy una WS trato de ser objetiva en esto y creo que aunque el tener un A es una opción (que un WS hace) el construir un matrimonio a prueba de un A es una tarea de ambos (tuya y de tu esposa)"
Please give feedback on assumptions/incongruities I need all the help I can get...definitely not thin skinned FYI
Not licensed psych but medical...so we think we can save the world and analyze everything:) Too bad I have 20/20 vision for others but coke bottle vision for myself
Deleted RB posts due to fear at that point that H would discover...cultural issues about sharing personal info with others his #1 no-no and always has been; got to the point that I figured it was worth the risk for my sanity. Yep, I felt if he could share himself 1:1 I could anonomously share my plight to fight for M and if he won't understand that then...
I still don't know what you are trying to get at. I probably am the victim in the sense that something was done to me that was not my choosing. I don't think of it in those terms. I see myself in a struggle to find something right in our futures and feel like I am doing that all alone. I feel that gemela still has not made the decision that she will give her all for the M. She is playing a waiting game for reasons she won't explain to me. In fact, she explains nothing to me. We are not allowed to talk about the A, our M, nothing. The weather is always the same here: instense sunshine throughout the day with highs in the upper 40's / lower 50's with darkness prevailing through most of the night. So talking about the weather is pretty boring too. We did have a severe sand storm yesterday. That was interesting. We talked about that for a couple of minutes.
I am not sure what you are saying that I should do. I think I have given gemela more than enough opportunities. She is the one who is not all that interested. She needs to take time to decide what she wants in her life. She can always come back to us if she decides to. It is her choice. I am not running her off. But for her to stay in this marriage, we simply cannot continue to pretend the A never happened. We have to understand it, what caused it and, more importantly, what gemela really truly wants with her future.
pio IMO you havent solved main reason that is keeping away from gemela (emotional way) I dont know you, but you show you as a practical man, objective you always wanto go to the point. (no te gustan los rodeos) and I think since D day you have been more far from gemela than before... Como no tengo mucho tiempo ahora, te escribiré en español,,,, a veces no digo las cosas muy suavemente asi que espero no te moleste lo que te voy a decir, es solo mi punto de vista.
Ok, tu tienes algo más de 40 años eso es seguro, el OM es menor de 30 y de alguna manera te sientes en desventaja, yo tengo 33 y puedo decirte que eso que ves como desventaja podría ser hasta una ventaja,, solo no actues como el papá de gemela... Sé que te mantienes en buena forma así no veo problema alguno. Por que te comento esto? bueno, jamás me contestaste nada sobre la edad, y creo que internamente la diferencia de edades entre gemela y tu podrías pensar que influye en su comportamiento y en cómo te gustaría a tí que ella se comportase.
En mi matrimonio la mayoría de las decisiones las he tomado yo, porque soy dominante y ahora que ya no puedo con todo me estoy quejando, eso esta mal... yo misma construí mi relación de esta forma y ahora no me gusta... creo que en tu caso tú eres el dominante y has sobre protegido a gemela... ella no es una niña y sería bueno que la dejes tomar sus decisiones por si sola y algunas otras de común acuerdo.
Me da la impresión de que estas justificando elque tu matrimonio pueda terminar por el comportamiento de alguien que ahora no esta bien emocionalmente hablando... Un affair es como una enfermedad y puede ser incluso obsesivo... uno sabe que está mal, uno siente que no debe hacerlo, y sin embargo lo hace,,, por que? porque creemos que nos está ayudando a satisfacer ciertas necesidades que nuestro esposo o nuestra relación no nos la da... En mi caso fue atención. Sentía que mi esposo no me hacía el menor caso,, y el OM me llamaba hasta 5 veces al ´día.... me hacía sentir bien... Por lo general las mujeres nos llevamos por la parte emocional más que por la física, es decir no queremos acostarnos con el tipo, queremos que nos diga cosas bonitas, y claro lo otro puede darse ya que estamos bien involucradas... Sé que has tenido paciencia con gemela,,, la mayoría de los hombres no la habrían tenido si alguien te dice "no te amo, nunca te he amado" eso es muy duro.. Pero hay cosas que creo que aún no has podido realizar antes de dejarle todo en las manos de alguienque no está bien ahora (gemela)
Creo que no has sabido comunicarte con ella, entrar en sus emociones, por que no te dice todo loque siente? cuál es tu reacción cuando ella te cuenta algo que no te agrada? te enojas? la agredes verbalmente? te quedas callado? te desquitas con algo?
Dime cómo ha cambiado piojito su relación con su esposa desde su D day que ha hecho para mejorar la relación, para estar más cerca de ella? , la llevaaste a festejar su cumpleaños a otro sitio para pasarla bien cierto? pero las cosas no estaban bien piojito, prueba de ello es que te molestó el hecho de que ella estuviera comprando la pulsera.
Que hacías antes del D day que ahora ya no haces? por ejemplo, si antes la regañabas o la presionabas por algo y ahora ya no lo haces.. que has hecho en concreto... además de tolerale sus mentiras posteriores al D day de las veces que seguía teniendo contacto con el OM...
Como WS te puedo decir que cuando mi esposo se puso violento, y estando borracho me llamó puta... me dieron muchas ganas de llamar al OM, pero no lo hice.. el punto es que puedes hacer mucho para ayudarla a que saque a OM de su mente... cierto que de ella va a depender, pero el punto es que tu cubras lo que ella cree que el OM cubría en ella.
Que hay de la intimidad? cómo se llevan en ese aspecto? tu dices que todo ok, e incluso has tolerado lo de la enfermedad que te contagió le has preguntado si le gustaría intentar algo nuevo? la conoces en esa área... hablan de eso sin tabúes... te prestas al diálogo?
No se trata de que hagas lo que hacia el OM, sabemos que OM no sirve, y es un hombre por el que no valdría la pena ni un centavo.. ni una lágrima tuya ni de gemela... solo que tu esposa no se ha dado cuenta, y probablemente no le has ayudado a que lo descubra....
Le dijiste de tu investigación del OM donde supiste que había tenido otras relaciones similares a la de ellla?
Sé que arreglaste tu horario para estar más tiempo con ella, pero dime el tiempo que pasas con ella es de calidad? no importa la cantidad...
Es fácil hablar y aconsejar pio, lo sé... es más dificil actuar y dar sin esperar, y /o aceptar al otro tal como es...
Algunas preguntas que te hice antes no las respondiste.. ¿por qué crees que gemela dejó no solo a su familia, sino incluso su país, para estar contigo? yo creo que ella te ama, y ahora está "como drogada" y esa droga es el OM... y como los drogadictos necesitan apoyo,no que los dejes solos en lugares donde pueden conseguir la droga.. Y si con todo el apoyo posible el drogadicto no quiere aceptar que tiene un problema y que está en sus manos superarse de ese vicio, pues entonces ya será responsable de sus actos..
Yo creo que no todo ha sido perfecto de tu parte , sin dejar de lado que has hecho mucho... un año no? pero cuántos de esos 12 meses realmente fuero de recuperaci´´on?
Si durante años tu relación con ella fue de cierta forma, es dificil modificarla... pero el cambio empieza con uno mismo...
Sabes por que gemela ya no escribe? no crees que pudiera ser porque tu podrías ver lo que ella escribe? bueno eso me pasa a mí,, hay cosas que se que mi esposo no toleraría ni leerlas y que no las entendería y conozco su reacción y sé que eso me hace distante de él
Antes mi esposo era mi mejor amigo, luego la vida diaria, nuestros trabajos, nos distanciaron y bueno dejó de serlo.. ahora yo quiero volver a ser como era antes con él y que seamos los mejores amigos como antes... ¿crees que gemela te tiene confianza? ¿eres su amigo? ¿por qué?
piojito, no te des por vencido... recuerda lo hermoso que viviste con ella, lo que te enamoró de ella.. y haz de cuenta que esta enferma... la dejarías por una enfermedad?..
Sé que soy una WS así que solo tengo una idea del daño que hacemos a quienes amamos.. pero todos merecemos una segunda oportunidad... Lucha por gemela... y si en definitiva tu sientes y has hecho TODO cuanto has podido por mejora tu relación pues entonces si,,, deciden que harán con sus vidas... pero no le dejes la decisión a ella,no así como está ahora.. enferma...
I haven't read all of your post and am not going to either. Whatever happened before the A could have been resolved in many different ways. An A is never justified for any reason. Whether I have changed or not or if I feel I have is fairly unimportant. The only thing that really matters for gemela is how SHE feels.
She finally told me this AM that she did indeed sleep with OM in the house with the girls there. She has denied this all along until today. She has given me various reasons for lying. This is just one example. There are other things she has lied about and continues to lie about.
The biggest problem we have at the moment is not the A but the fact that she cannot be trusted to tell the truth about anything. Most people here believe that to recover a marriage requires the WS to be completely open and transparent. Gemela is none of that. She continues to lie or bend truth to her convenience. The fact is she could say she was over the A and completely in love with me and I would never know if it were true or not. Until gemela learns that telling the truth is important no matter what the consequences, we have zero hope. She told me today she was afraid to tell me the truth. I asked if she was afraid I would harm her in any way. She said no. She said she was afraid of hurting me. She screwed the pool boy in my own house under the noses of my daughters. How are are few words going to hurt me? Gemela has no respect for my feelings whatsoever.
We cannot have a marriage based on secrets, lies and half-truths. I would be willing to work on a lot of things to try to save the marriage but I refuse to live with continual lies. Gemela says what she wants to say. The truth has no meaning to her.
P, Does G have a twin brother? I think I'm married to him. Same exact issues. Sorry, I know you knew but the validation still hurts...you could be making some headway if she has disclosed this...
Can relate to you feelings about honesty...I am there now and have been for past 3 months...no real headway...for every truth there are 1/2 doz lies that I am aware of and ??? more I don't. This goes way beyond A's. Did the lies pre-exist the A for G? If not, there is hope.
The truth is I don't know. Someone else asked me that yesterday and it seemed like such a strange question because I had never thought about it. I do think she has always had the habit of telling white lies but I don't think she has ever told many bad ones. I think I understand now why I got so mad at her in the shopping mall last Wednesday. I had decided to go to the mall to get a new VHS to replace one that is acting up. WW had not mentioned any need to go to the mall and had recently been. I invited her to go with me just to be together. We walked into the mall and the Sony store was almost at the entrance we went in. I started to go into the store and she said she would be in the shop next door. I got the VHS and left and found her in the passage. She said she was hungry. So we went so she could get food. Then she said she wanted to go to another shop for something. I just got madder and madder. I never said anything though. What got me made was that the only reason for going to the mall was to get the VHS and yet she wouldn't even go in the store with me. Suddenly the mall trip that was only supposed to be for me became all about her and what she wanted to do. I told her this yesterday and she replied that she hated to go into electronics stores. I told her that I hated to go into her shoe stores but I did it anyway because I knew it was impportant to her and I loved her so I just suffered it.
I asked her if the IC told her that she should lie to me and she said no. The IC tells her to tell the truth. She doesn't know why she still lies to me. She says she doesn't understand why I want to ask about the affair and doesn't see the point of discussing it. I told her that, if she would simply tell me the truth, I could deal with it and let it go. Now she is starting to make more excuses. Her big excise now is that she wasn't thinking and she was out of control. Temporary insanity. Although it is probably true, she seems to use it as a panacea. "The devil made me do it."
I do think that time apart is about our only option left. We have agreed to a five month NC separation. I will fly her back to spend Christmas here with the girls. We will talk then and decide what each of us wants. I told her I refuse to maintain house just so the DDs have a "family". Both of us really need to want this marriage. I'll be honest. I am quickly losing interest. This has gone on way too long. Maybe the five months will give me some time to heal and ease the pain a bit and allow me to look at this in a better light. I don't know. I just can't keep going like we are going.
I think I understand now why I got so mad at her in the shopping mall last Wednesday. I had decided to go to the mall to get a new VHS to replace one that is acting up. WW had not mentioned any need to go to the mall and had recently been. I invited her to go with me just to be together. We walked into the mall and the Sony store was almost at the entrance we went in. I started to go into the store and she said she would be in the shop next door. I got the VHS and left and found her in the passage. She said she was hungry. So we went so she could get food. Then she said she wanted to go to another shop for something. I just got madder and madder. I never said anything though. What got me made was that the only reason for going to the mall was to get the VHS and yet she wouldn't even go in the store with me. Suddenly the mall trip that was only supposed to be for me became all about her and what she wanted to do. I told her this yesterday and she replied that she hated to go into electronics stores. I told her that I hated to go into her shoe stores but I did it anyway because I knew it was impportant to her and I loved her so I just suffered it.
Pio, you've got much bigger fish to fry than hand holding in the mall. I don't see anything wrong with her looking in the next store while you are on a mission to buy a VCR or wanting something to eat while you are there. As Melody Lane has told me many a time "Is this the hill you want to die on?"
You say "Suddenly the mall trip that was only supposed to be for me became all about her and what she wanted to do." What- look next door and get a bite to eat? Maybe I'm missing something but this sounds a tad selfish Pio.
I also want to comment on your post about her dishonesty and how she said she was afraid to tell you the truth. I could kind of relate to what she was saying. I'm just throwing MY thoughts and feelings out there for you to ponder, they may or may not be similar to what Gamela feels. There were many times I was afraid to tell my husband the truth about some things and I asked myself why. I know he would never hurt me physically, that thought never crossed my mind. Yet I was afraid to tell him some very insignificant things. Why? Because I knew he would get angry and I felt his reaction was inappropriate so it became easier to tell a white lie.
I have thought about this a lot today and kept asking myself, what was I so afraid of? I'm not a mouse and I will push back if pushed. Soooooo . . . . the conclusion I came to was that I felt he cut me down when he got angry about such stupid, insignificant things. I feel it is disrespectful and condescending and it made me feel very lousy. I felt an unbalance of power. I felt more like a subordinate than a peer and I HATED it with all my might. I am a gentle soul and I do not like to be yelled at by someone who professess to love me. I tried as best I could to tell him his angry outbursts really bothered me, but he was just wired that way. Eventually his angry outburts were countered with mine.
So I offer you this. I don't know how you and Gamela interacted in the past, BUT did you have angry outbursts when she told you something you didn't like? Have YOU changed so that Gamela feels safe telling you the truth?
I haven’t posted on your thread for some time because I haven’t been sure about how my input might or could help. I did have a solution to the whole bread/knot/pissing in the shower thing but (wisely) decided to keep it to myself.
I have a feeling you and gemela are travelling separate paths right now towards a similar but not quite same goal. I just want to toss out a couple of thoughts:
I. “She finally told me…” OK – learning the truth is hard. I guess what is even harder for you is that she did not say this some time ago. But are you focusing on the wrong thing here? She did tell the truth. There is one lie less today. Maybe – just maybe – she is finally starting to open up and becoming capable of telling the truth. Maybe the wrong reaction from you will curb that ability.
II. So now the separation is on a schedule. Is this a scheduled “Plan B” with a timeline? Are you two possibly just postponing your issues? Taking a sabbatical? You have the flight dates and you have already told her she is coming back for Christmas. Sorry but I don’t see how this will benefit your marriage. I can see it benefit your decision to separate. Somehow I have always thought the part in Plan B that got the wayward spouse back was the threat of losing the betrayed spouse. In your case Mrs. Pio and you know you have 5 months to adapt to a certain level of self-pity (or recovery – I wont deny that is possible) and the make a decision around Christmas.
Infidelity is serious stuff with serious consequences. One of those consequences can be divorce and a consequence of that is very often that one parent does not see the kids for birthdays and holidays. So why are you setting a timed fuse on your case? Please don’t say you’re “doing it for the DD”. If that were the case then using the same logic you would stay with G “for the kids”.
I had noted that in your initial Plan B letter you left her unlimited time to make up her mind. As contradictory as it sounds I wasn’t happy with that. I really think that in order for Plan B to have an increased chance of success you have to get the message clearly over that while you are open to reconciliation on certain terms then also you are working on moving on and that might mean your emotions change – thereby your willingness to reconcile. This places the pressure of deciding to reconcile squarely on the WS but giving you the option of accepting an offer of reconciliation.
III. How will enforced separation benefit your marriage? I offer another option: Send her to Bahrain to stay at a hotel for 2 weeks. Give her unlimited and unmonitored access to phones and enough money to get to Mexico or UK. Tell her that 14 days from now she either comes back to commit to the marriage and to work on R or she doesn’t. Frankly I think you will get the same result as the 5 months in Mexico will offer you. If she does come back I once again strongly recommend you two seek MC with the Harley’s.
IV. I’ve told you previously I often use proven business method to solve personal issues. What if this was a project at work? Have you sat down with G and made your thoughts very clear? The options and consequences? And if she doesn’t seem to react have you considered your method of getting the points across might not be working? Just like when I am giving an employee an important assignment or final warning: I get the message across in more than one way and have then recite it back in their words. Only when I am certain both have the same view do I move on.
I think the Christmas visit is a mistake too. Basically it is not fair to you. Gemela can just have her visit in Mexico and have fun, fun, fun. Meanwhile you have the responsibility for the family.
Christmas visit was always on the table. Our agreement was she go to Mexico indefinitely but I would bring her back for Christmas and then return her back to Mexico after Christmas. That is still the working plan. We will talk about where we both are emotionally at Christmas but there is no commitment that she come back to stay then.
I am not sure why I got angry about the mall thing but I definitely did. This always seems to happen. When we take DDs to the mall, they want to go to the amusement park so we take them. When we get there, WW always tells me she wants to go look at something or even just go to the toilet. She will show up an hour later. Meantime I cannot leave the kids. I am stuck. There is never any POJA about the mall. Gemela does whatever she wants. If she had just gone into the video store with me, I think everything would have been fine. But it is like nothing I am interested in doing has any importance for her. I can't begin to imagine how many hours I have spent looking for shoes (size 7 1/2). I always do it with a smile.
I have no idea what she will do or feel in Mexico. I plan to use the next few months to be a full-time father and work on sewing up this gaping wound in my chest. Gemela and I have made no promise to each other. Our only agreement is visitation with the kids.
She is starting to say some of the right things. She says her A may have been fantasy. She says OM may not have been the prince she thought he was. It does look like she is making personal progress. But, as everyone says, it is actions that count - not words.
As believer has said before, it looks like I am now the one impeding progress.
I did tell her though that if she does restart her A with OM that the marriage is definitely over. She is well aware of the consequences of contacting OM.
The mall is a symptom - not a problem. it is an incongruity that I cannot reconcile. I mention it exactly to open myself up to scrutiny. I am not venting the mall thing - I am trying to understand it. Thanks for your input. Maybe it is selfish. I have always thought of myself as unselfish in the M. I have always put gemela first. Maybe I am just now trying to find a better balance. I don't know. I will gladly accept more criticism.
I can appreciate your feelings about not wanting to talk about hurtful things. As a BS, it is also important for me to understand them. Up til now, gemela has maintained a thick curtain wrapped around the A. For me, I need to be able to know more about it to allow me to cope with it. I admit that knowing little details is crazy on the surface. I asked gemela last night what they had to eat the first night he came over to the house. What difference does that make? But she did answer and that meant so much. yes maybe she finally is starting to tell some of the truth. I need to give that positive reinforcement. I totally agree.
I am not upset about the fact that I just found out for sure that OM came over to the house. In my heart I always knew because it is the only thing that made sense. For it to have happened any other way would have been totally out of character for gemela. Now she has told me something that fits with what I believe her to be and I mean that in a good way. Just two weeks ago I asked about OM in the house because I told her I did read her post on MB. She told me another lie that she wrote it just to get a reaction out of me. Most BS's get to ask the WS about the A. Most WS's are open and transparent. My WW is totally dark about the A and that, IMO, has made it very difficult to cope.
Now the problem is that her credibility is totally shot. She lies so easily that I will never know for sure what is the truth and what is a lie. I asked her to help me know how I could tell. She doesn't know either. She admits it is a problem for both of us.
Poor Lebanon. And just when they got rid of Syria. Do you know how much revenue Syria has given up over leaving Lebanon? Now that reveune will go elsewhere. Peace in the Middle East is an oxymoron until someone can find a way to make peace profitable. The only downside is that war is a competitive business. What is needed is government subsidies. People getting paid for doing nothing. That may be the answer. In effect, it is already being done - just not on a wide enough scale.
Politically I am not sure Syria can get involved. The son is just not the same man his father was. Iran will always be in the mix. Good thing the 101st is in their way.
Yes the warden messages are already flying. If anything happens to me, at least the US government can sleep with a clean conscience. Government conscience - another oxymoron?
There is more real risk in your neighborhood than mine unfortunately.
I won't get into a political discussion, because it bothers KiwiJ (where is she anyway?).
But I've always sided with Israel. However, now they have killed over 100 to get back their hostages. I'm sure there is a reason, but it seems a bit of an overreaction to me.
The US should subcontract all its work to Russia. The results would be better and it would be far more economical. Everyone benefits.
I beg to differ on the danger aspect. The five prime targets in the USA are Washington DC, New York City, Colorado Springs (SAC), Lake Fort Smith (water supply for Fort Smith, Arkansas - my home town) and Atlanta, Georgia. Can you imagine what would happen to the world if we lost the formula for Coca Cola? Chaos would reign. Atlanta is high risk, my friend.
I beg to differ on the danger aspect. The five prime targets in the USA are Washington DC, New York City, Colorado Springs (SAC), Lake Fort Smith (water supply for Fort Smith, Arkansas - my home town) and Atlanta, Georgia.
Crime statistics for Atlanta are very misleading but having said that, if the stats help dissuade people from moving here, all the better. Our roads are full!
It's because Israel understands power and how to use it. It's something we lost a long time ago.
Back in second grade, we had a new kid come to school. He was a bit small and somewhat shy. He acted tough though. Even so, he never got his butt whipped because he had a brother in sixth grade that was huge. So this little runt got away with a lot because everyone was afraid of his big brother.
Israel understands power? I learned all this in the second grade. This isn't rocket science.
Even so, it is far more complex than that. The OPEC embargo of the 70's didn't work. It created huge profits so had the opposite of its intended effect. It is all about "interests". There is no right or wrong here. It is only who benefits and by how much.
You learned it in the second grade; I learned it in my neighborhood when I was five. My operative point was also that the US does not understand how to use its power.
Put me in charge for thirty days and I will solve the world's conflicts.
Part of Russia's problem in Afghanistan is that they fought two wars - much lie the US did in Vietnam. I am thoroughly convinced that Russia running wars as a purely business venture would be quite effective. Or,as gemela always says, con dinero biala el perro, sin dinero bialas como perro.
I do wish they would teach us to land a space capsule on land.
Have you asked someone who has actually done it to find out whether it is really such a good idea? My bet is they might prefer the water. Besides, we only ever lost one and now even Liberty 7 is back on dry land.
Hmmm...I thought there was a hous on the market just down the street from you. Or has that sold already?
It is still off the market. Language in OM and OMW divorce decree set forth that OM was to sell home within x days which has now passed.
Apparently, he can't leave STBXW or she won't let him. OMW has hired an attorney to sue either for specific performance or for OM to buy her half of the equity out.
I did have a solution to the whole bread/knot/pissing in the shower thing
Did it by any chance involve taking the bread bag into the shower? I am amazed that had never occurred to me before. Shear brilliance in its simplicity!
Pio, I am here and I also mentioned your Israel post to an American academic in the Department. I will run it past him. He was born in Long Island, moved to South America with his diplomat father (and mother) when he was 3, grew up in Argentina and got involved in all sorts of resistance movements, went to college in the States and moved here where he is our token "loud" American academic.
The mall thing. Weeeeellll, you are sort of talking about every husband and wife's experience at the mall. We have a set rule. I look at shoe shops etc and he looks at the stuff that interests him. We have lunch together and look at the stores that interest us both together. We were at the mall today as it happens and your post interested me. We did a good job of satisfying ourselves and each other. He even held my hand. (shock, horror he hates doing that in public). At the supermarket he kept grabbing my hips and doing a conga. Talk about embarrassing. But I set a robotic chicken in the toy section doing some sort of song. Talk about embarrassing.
Pio, you need the time apart. I don't know if it's a Plan B or not. You know gemela, we don't. I don't think it'll be her having fun, fun, fun. I think needs to see what life will be like without you. I think she will miss you and the girls more than she thinks she will.
This mall experience was a new emotion for me. Needless to say I have spent several man-years shopping with gemela and have always been quite good at it. My only problem to this point is that I apparently cannot recognize white when I see it. Men don't realize that there are about 200 shades of white. Women do. I don't know why this particular mall visit bothered me so. But it clearly did.
I doubt gemela will be living the high life in Mexico. It will be hard to face her family. I just hope she is honest with them. I doubt she will contact OM either. I don't feel like she sees any happiness there.
We are not really allowed to hold hands in public here. We do it anyway but it is against the law. If a mutawa sees us, we can get in trouble. Fortunately the mutawas are easy to spot. One woman here has a great strategy. Whenever a mutawa bothers her she simply shouts (in arabic) "you're looking at me". It is a big sin for a mutawa to look at a woman. They quickly run away.
You would think someone with a degree in Physics would have taken high school algebra. Don't you know "x" is a variable?
Yes Professor Pio,
I do realize that x is a variable. And I took HS algebra in the sixth grade. I used to be very smart. Well, that's a long story that I don't remember very well...
Anyway, I used x because I could not remember (there's the "R" word again!) how many months it called for.
Did it by any chance involve taking the bread bag into the shower? I am amazed that had never occurred to me before. Shear brilliance in its simplicity!
Trust me, bread bags leak. At least American bread bags do. Maybe it is different in SA... Besides, it really makes the bread soggy. And ruins the flavor I might add.
When we had our dog we used bread bags to scoop her poop.
It involves putting the bread bag on your hand, picking up the poop, inverting the bread bag and tying the end.
Once, Rob threw the bread bag of poop at me (in fun not in anger). If it had hit me there would have been no fun and plenty of anger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Yes I realize you used to be very smart. Unfortunately now you are only smart in the posterior region.
As for the twisty ties, I think gemela must remove them in the supermarket checkout line. They can't survive ten minutes in our house. I put on replacements and the replacements disappear. What is wrong with the freaking fold and tuck!?!?!?
Do you know who Jerry Seinfeld is? He had a long running sitcom called "Seinfeld".
He has a standup routine in which he says if aliens could see humans walking their dogs and picking up their poop, who would they think is the superior being?
My comment was for ToddAC and he is smart enough to know it.
The plastic square technology has not reached the Middle East. Just as the pop top can technology is still the pull off variety here. twist-off bottle tops have not gotten here either.
BTW, the plastic square is NOT as good as the twisty tie. It did fail in my relative humidity experiments. The plastic square cannot maintain as good a seal as a twisty tie and, more importantly, it can allow a fairly high rate of ant permeation. And unfortunately the ants prefer the white part over the green fuzzy part so they provide no appreciable benefit.
P, Ironically my H divulged some truths about a past "friend" that I knew in my gut was more than that...this discussion was all while we were doing some chores together which is the first time in 7 months that we have done anything around the house together. H had been providing lots of personal info about present sitch and I guess based on my reactions felt safe to answer my question about this "friend" of 4 years that has been geographically separated from H for 2yr but still has some contact with. I winced, teared up, said thanks for the validation, admitted it still hurt and sucked it up.
I know if I want any more truth then it is all hinging on my reaction to this info...kinda like a lithmus test. I've always told H that I'm a big girl and can handle the truth...said it was the most important thing to me and necessary to try to recover this mess of what we have. I must say it makes me sick, I feel all the old initial feelings of the "just found out" phase. This has been a series of sitches in our M but H never would address, only deny. Could we be turning a corner? I don't know.
I have to agree with Shatterd's view on the lies. I know that although I didn't have angry outbursts I did place judgements and reactions to any negative truths revealed over the course of M and per H made him feel like I was a parent or warden and not peer...eventually anything he knew I would not agree with he would lie about even as simple as spending $5 on something if he knew I wouldn't approve.
I have always been the responsible one in the M. H loves to spend $ which has been big issue and most of the lies revolve around $ and OPs who don't judge H behavior and accept for what they see.
I've seriously thought that a separation for us was in order for me to be free of dealing with things and be able to proccess without constant insult and injury. I've requested H leave 3times and he refuses. Basically it is selfish of me but I too reached the point where I didn't care and felt I deserved the respite. Not fair to the kids.
I've professed so long and so much that all I wanted was honesty so now it is time for me to step up and deal with it. It is painful but I asked for it so I either need to deal with it in a positive manner if I want to try to recover or make a decision that I am done and don't want to invest any more emotional stock. If I choose the latter I need to own it. It may come to that but I am going to face the music and see if I am all that I said I was.
I don't know if the 5 month separation is your "respite" but considering G is giving you something to chew on I think I'd really consider Bigger's 2 wk option if you must be apart. I also like his philosphy of "one less lie today".
It all boils down to you, what you want and what you are willing and able to deal with. Just MHO.
It's funny, in our R talk, the discussion generally revolves around H's needs and me saying he needs to decide if he wants to stay in and rebuild etc which he says he does and says D is not opt for him. Curiously it has never been brought up that perhaps I would want out...does it ever occur to them that it could happen?
Many of our imports come from Australia. I hate the Oz imports that have twisty ties. The problem is that they twist in the wrong direction. All other imports twist in the right direction. Something to do with the Coriolis effect maybe. Dunno.
Curiously it has never been brought up that perhaps I would want out...does it ever occur to them that it could happen?
Maybe it doesn't. I don't think it would be part of a good Plan A. I think Plan B is where this thought process might come in to play. To be honest, Plan A is a hungry beast. I made a commitment to myself early on that I would deny myself those thoughts because they were too destructive.
I think it is only now that gemela may just be beginning to realize that she just can't ride this out. I hope she learns that anyway. Either way, I don't stand that much to lose. I can't keep on the way we are living.
Thanks for the comment about owning up to the truth. It is right. If I want the truth, I have to accept it as it is. I'll just try to remember Pavlov's dog.
It does occur to "us" that you would want out. In fact the times when my H has said "why am I bothering being married to you" are the times when I've know for sure that I want "in".
Pio, I don't know what gemela's truth is. I really don't.
Hey, since KiwiJ period showed up, we quit talking about politics. That believer is to be believed!
I don't like the square plastic thingys. I like clamps. I have discussed my clamp collection before and won't put the group thru it again. But I use clamps on bread and chips. Cough drop bags, pretzels -- you name it, I clamp it.
The problem is that they twist in the wrong direction. All other imports twist in the right direction. Something to do with the Coriolis effect maybe.
No Professor Pio,
You have it backwards. Hey can I call you Professor Backwards? Do you know who he is?
Anyway, if the Ozzies abided by the Coriolis effect in their part of the world, they would twist the twisty tie thingy in a clockwise directin which is obviously the proper way. Maybe only in SA do they twist the twisty tie counter clockwise...
For how much longer will "clockwise" have any coherent meaning. My children are growing up with digital clocks. Analog clocks are almost non-existent. We will have to come up with a new term.
What does water do at the equator? Must get really confused. How do toilets work at the equator? Anybody here from Ecuador?
What happens on an airplane flying from Los Angeles to Sydney? How do the toilets function during the flight? What about the return flight when you cross the dateline backwards?
I posted this a while ago and then deleted it as I thought it was in bad taste. I am reposting it and probably not going to delete it this time. It somehow seems appropriate to how I feel at the moment.
------------A Few Good Wives--------------
WW: "You want answers?"
BH: "I think I'm entitled to them!"
WW: "You want answers?!"
BH: "I want the truth!"
WW: "You can't handle the truth!!! Hon, we live in a world that requires security. And that security must be brought in by wives with elite deception skills. Who's going to provide it? You? You, Mr. Boring Clueless Husband? We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You scoff at housekeeping and you curse our excessive wardrobes. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know: that while the cost of maintaining us is high, it brings you security. And my very existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, brings you SECURITY! You don't want to know the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at poker night ... you want me to lie. You NEED me to lie! We use words like my husband doesn't fulfill me, phone sex, no-tell motel and I love you but I'm not IN love with you. We use these words as the backbone of a marriage spent building something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself to a husband who rises and sleeps under the very blanket of security I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you contract a lawyer and file for legal separation and give me my freedom. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!"
Well I've never seen it and personally I don't think it exists. Once I was in a plane supposedly flying over it. That is what the captain said anyway. I looked out the window and there was no long black line anywhere.
He was on a ship with a beautiful woman and he looked through a telescope and exclaimed:
"Look, I see the equator".
The excited beauty couldn't wait. She grabbed the scope and as she peered through it, Benny Hill plucked a hair from his head and held it at the end of the scope.
The young woman screamed:
"I see it! And look, there's a camel walking across it".
I must admit that while I have requested radical honesty and written about requesting it in posts, each time I think about my sitch I think about Jack and his speech from the stand, it is always in the back of my mind.
I haven't gone as far as to recreate the dialogue but then you have been at this longer than I...
Does G get your intellect and dry sense of humor? My H loves stupid humor but I am more of the dry sarcastic type myself and my humor is not appreciated nor do I engage in H's humor...makes laughing together tough, which is something we both have admitted to missing for ages. Just wondering.
Twisty ties, square thingys, drains, toilets, Benny Hill, clamps, bread bags, peeing in the shower, equator, typhoons, hurricanes, Snap-on tools, soft tail Harley, shoes in fifty six shades of white, new VCR, sandstorm, cancelled MC appointment, golf in the sand, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Israel, Hezbollah, atom bomb -- we talked about a lot of things most of which I cannot remember.
Anyway, sounds like someone wants to discuss infidelity. I'll leave now. Can't stomach that at the moment.
Pardon the intrusion...how's the diversion working 4 U? I use it so much in my real life that MB is my only R sounding board that I can rely on...perhaps I should put all of my R issues in a breadbag, twist tie it and send it to Iran?
What diversion are we talking about? Don't worry about ToddAC. He'll forget he even posted by tomorrow. It is great. I can convince him he said all sorts of things.
I think gemela does get my sense of humor. I can also fake Mexican humor and she appreciates that too.
Todd and Pio, thank you VERY much. Now I can't open a bread bag without smirking.
2much, you asked my reaction to the big D subject when it was brought up.
First time was 3 years ago, just after D-day. Just the word made me cry and beg him not to even talk like that. Second time was about 9 months after that when we seemed to be getting nowhere with recovery. Again, the finality of the word was enough to shake me up.
Last time was about 3 months ago after my renewed contact with the OM. Once again, I couldn't bear the thought and still can't. I just can't imagine life without my H. I don't want life without my H.
Sorry KiwiJ but I don't know your whole story. Was Rob in a Plan A?
My nagging doubt is that I don't think gemela has ever really had any downside risk from all this. Her life has been sunshine and roses albeit tainted with withdrawal. Rob mentioned D and it shook you up. So there was some potential downside for you and you say it got your attention. D talk is not really Plan A.
This is not directed at you BTW. This is an open question to myself and one I think 2much is dealing with too. I guess my solution is my miserable Plan B. I don't understand why believer says I cannot do a Plan B. She is not the only one who has said that either.
This is not intended to be a vent either. I said months ago that SAA is great for starting a Plan A. It is great for recovery. It is this quagmire in between where it doesn't offer much help. This forum is far better for that.
I guess the basic problem is that there is no one answer. There are multiple paths to the same goal and the correct one depends on the people taking it.
I was thinking this morning about a comment believer made yesterday about my plan being unfair to me.
The word atypical means the opposit of typical or not typical. The word asocial means not social. So I guess the word affair means not fair by the same grammatical logic.
Before I forget, I wanted to say that my grandfather was the master at POJA. My grandmother was always trying to get him into activities he wanted no part of. One day she signed them up for Spanish classes. He had no desire to go but he never made one complaint. The first night of class, the teacher gave them a list of 10 Spanish words that are very similar to their English counterparts. The task was to recognize the word and use the Spanish word correctly in an English sentence. An example would be the word "carro" (car). A sentence would be "my carro is blue". That is how the exercised was supposed to work. Well one of his words was "dificil" (difficult). He took his list of words and he made the sentences. His sentence was "de policeman blew dificil". They never went back to Spanish class again.
Thinking about the similarities between many English and Spanish words, is it coincidence that "alimento" (food) and "ailment" are so similar? Many American tourists in Mexico might not think so.
Pio, D-day occurred long before I found MB. Rob sort of did an instinctual (I think I just made that word up) Plan A but there were many, many times when words were spat at each other. Our first and only fights in 28 years. Yes, the D word shook me to my core.
I've always told people doing Plan A that sometimes a real, honest blow out, where all the hurt and pain is clearly put out there, clears the air. THEN recovery can start. I don't think it's MB though. Recovery started for us the day Rob sat me down calmly and said "tell me your story."
That is a bit cryptic or a little "dificil" to understand. What did Rob mean and, in generic terms, what did you say? Did you tell him all about the A? (or at least the important parts).
The things I think I want to know are:
1) In general terms, why does gemela think she had the A or what did she like about it (what EN's were met?) 2) In general terms, what was the architecture or mechanics of the A? (I don't want to know about what pages of the Kama Sutra they practiced). I just want to be able to put some of my observations of that time in context. Resolve some questions that still bother me. 3) What does gemela really want now? Does she really want to try to make the marriage work or is this just something she feels stuck with? 4) What would she like to see improved in the marriage (fill out the EN questionaire)?
That would be my grand slam. I know it is asking a lot. But it is what I want. So far I am 0 for 4.
He said I want to hear about the A from start to finish. I want to hear "Jenny's story". He said I can't promise I won't be hurt but I will promise I won't be angry.
We sat there with a bottle of wine and I started with "the Monday after the funeral......" and finished with "he ended it by....."
Rob always said he didn't want any sexual detail. He said "I've been married to you for 28 years, I think I know what it would be like with you pulling all the stops out to keep him interested."
He was very keen to know time frames so he could put together where he was on those nights and where I was. I showed him all my cellphone records so he knew when I'd phoned him. There were no e-mails. There never had been anything apart from "do you want to meet for lunch, a drink" and my reply "yes, ok, where, when."
Pio, you are not asking a lot at all. It is what Rob asked of me but the most important thing of all was the WAY he asked.
I was just going to add that Rob IS an exceptional man. I don't think he's a better man than you but he is exceptional and I am thankful I have him.
I hope it happens for you one day soon.
Do you know something? Thinking back to the e-mail I received on that Monday morning after the funeral on Friday where we'd caught up, chatted and bantered about the "old" days. If I'd never received another word from him I would have thought "yeah, the old days were fun but they're gone now." I remember my first reaction when I received the e-mail at 8.30am on the Monday morning. It was "Oh sh**". I was so naive.
I have no excuse for my recent behaviour. Only that the fact of being pursued seems to be my Achilles heel. I was in a place where I knew I would never contact him again.
I have no excuse for my recent behaviour. Only that the fact of being pursued seems to be my Achilles heel. I was in a place where I knew I would never contact him again.
A startling admission Jen. How are you going to make sure if (when) he pursues you again you will not be vulnerable?
I see you both are still fascinated (or ‘bothered’) by the asterisk after my screen name, so here you can read about the story behind the asterisk and at the time, why some other posters has also start to put asterisks (or other symbols) behind their names.
Since I can’t change Suzet* back to Suzet (my previous screen name with a different pass word), maybe I can try the full stop too to make it less “insidious”. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
ToddAC does not speak for me with regard to non-alphabetic characters in screen names. Personally I feel he is obsessive about it. I simply filter them as previously explained. I simply prefer the unadulterated screen name. (This is a good thing since non-alphabetic characters seem to be no longer allowed.)
Are you Suzet with a star? Suzet with an asterisk? Suzet with a multiplication sign? Suzet with a snow flake? It is simply too ambiguous. Maybe it has intrigue. If it is what you like and you are comfortable with it, keep your star/asterisk/whatever and tell ToddAC to go get stuffed.
I am still trying to get used to my WW having an affair. Bigger fish and all that.
Can't sleep? Don't need much sleep? Too busy for sleep? I myself am not big on sleep but after extended periods will crash and burn...Starbucks is my best friend...my comfort food...ok my drug of choice since it's legal and socially acceptable to be a javaholic!
"I haven't read all of your post and am not going to either. Whatever happened before the A could have been resolved in many different ways. An A is never justified for any reason. Whether I have changed or not or if I feel I have is fairly unimportant. The only thing that really matters for gemela is how SHE feels."
How bad that you havent read all my post... I think you are on defensive, or you dont accept some trues that I explain there. Is this your way to solve the things that you are not agree? just to ignore it? ok its your choice, and I just try to share my thoughts..as a WS, mexican I agree with you when you say tnat any A has any justified.. and I was not try to doing that.. NOOOO!! I just want to explain my thought about why gemela is having this behaviour, and I think she is not the witch (bruja?) in this tale.. she is "drug", or sick... and I think your reaction after D day has not helping here to be health (emotionaly)
About your words "Whether I have changed or not or if I feel I have is fairly unimportant." I want tell you that if you REALLY want to be with your W and with your M.. you should be worry to know what can YOU do in order to keep your love alive, and as a consequence your M.. not because your DD, because YOU... I know is not easy,, I have live similar situacion, I tried to fill my H needs and its so difficult if he shows me indiference.. but (until now) I keep trying..
Why you are not intereting in know WHY and WHEN did you leave to be gemela's best friend? I thinks this is important, because.. if you were a friendo for her,, she would have the confidence to share with you her feelings... and she wouldnt told you lies...
Big K, I didn't think that was a startling admission, I think I have learned a great deal. If I haven't learned anything in the last 3 months I am a simpleton. The answer is NC, it's drop the groceries and run NC, it's look the other way NC. It's consider Rob and our marriage NC.
To be honest the only thing occupying my thoughts right now is work. I am in an extremely stressful situation with my (woman) colleague and it's only Rob picking me up, dusting me off and pushing me off to work with words of support, that's keeping me going. SHE IS NOT GOING TO WIN THIS BATTLE, I AM.
Kiwij I understand your point.. and even I dont know your hole story,.. NC is hard, but is the best for ourselves... In my case my H havent given all support that I need not just because my work, incluse because a sickness that I have.. and this made more difficult NC. THere are days that, Im tentent to call OM, just to chat.. but I know that this is bad, and this would be the worst thing that I can do right now.. because my H had given me a "second chance" and I need to put all my effor... but when my H shows indiference and when I feeling blue.. I miss OM.. My H became a violent man, and inclusive if he read this, he would get furioous.. and I know he has the right to do that, but that dont help our M either... sorry, this is not my thread.. I just want to share with you this,,, My H is reviewing my laptop at home, and my phone, and everything and I couldt write this in that laptop because this can cause lot of troubles in home. (Even my NC has been succesful) BTW I was so depressed and I look for an old friend, who told me "you should love your H the was as he is".
Sorry pio, this is your thread,,,, Im leaving this right now... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I do not believe I am being defensive about anything. It is only that your post has little meaning right now. Six months ago, more or less, it would have had some meaning. Now you are asking me to go back and rehash this whole process and try to analyze why we are stuck where we are. I am tired of analyzing. I am tired of not communicating. If gemela would simply talk about this, I wouldn't need to try to analyze it. Analysis is depressing and unproductive.
Gemela and I could solve a lot of problems if she would just talk. Since she is not, I am no longer interested in trying. It is time that we both look for a better way to live our lives. That may not be together. Only time will decide that. I can't read gemela's mind. If I could, maybe we would not be where we are now. Moot point though since I'm not psychic. Gemela seems to believe that her A is my problem to deal with on my own. She remains quite selfish IMO.
So are you musically inclined, multilingual and hold down a power job or two with all this nonsleep time????
No. Sadly all he can think to do with his free time is run a cyber-bar on another website where the task seems to be to see who can upload the most creative picture of a cocktail. I would rather he spent his extra hours on cold fusion, perpetual motion or how to prevent "some settling may occur during shipping" in the box of cereal - you know - something to truly benefit mankind.
So are you musically inclined, multilingual and hold down a power job or two with all this nonsleep time????
Poor Pio!
Yes, I play guitar. I played guitar in a band during my teen years. I am on a sabbatical from a power career. I trade stocks semi-professionally. I am also a half-owner in a manufacturing/distribution/sales business. I speak five languages fluently.
I won the Nobel in Physics in 1998. And I have three books published. I also hold the world land speed record on roller blades. Let's see, what else? Just this past week, I built a 747 from scrap parts. I race in the NASCAR circuit. I am also a fireman and a cowboy.
But will you smirk if some settling did occur or if some settling did NOT occur? I think that will say a lot about who you are as a person.
If we could solve the "settling" problem, this would go a long way toward eliminating world hunger and also reduce global warming. Think about all the cargo ships and airplanes burning fossil fuels carrying a bunch of empty space (i.e. settling during shipping) to third world countries. it is extremely costly and very inefficient to ship air - and yet we do it. All so cereal companies can make more profit. And what about deforestation? It takes twice as many trees to create a half-empty box, doesn't it?
I think "some settling" may be the single greatest problem (aside from infidelity) facing mankind today.
I will smirk if some settling did occur. I will be amazed if some settling doesn't occur because I will then know that you or Todd will have solved the problem and the world will sleep easy.
What does that say about me?
As 2long asked, very astutely if you ask me, do they ship polystyrene packed in polystyrene?
I'm fluent in German because my Mother was German.
The language I should be fluent in is Spanish and I am not. I cannot "hear" Spanish. Plus, I wanted to keep talking to my WW in English. And she speaks a little German so we have many options.
On Global Warming, not to worry. The year 2012 will mark the beginning of a thirty five year period of fairly intense Global Cooling. But I don't identify problems with no solution. If you swap out single pane windows with double pane, save the singles and reinstall them in late 2011. Also, mothball a gus guzzler car if you have one and begin using it in the same time period. And spray hair spray until your hair won't budge in a 500 mph wind. That should do the trick.
KiwiJ dot,
The paper clip 747 gets great fuel economy. In fact, I won an award from an enviro think tank. It does seem however that passengers complain about the draftiness.
I am pretty sure they only ship styrene in raw form and ship polygrip in its raw form and then make polystyrene as and when needed. Styrene has a boiling point of 145C at atmospheric pressure so can easily be shipped without the need for refrigeration. The polymerisation reaction is exothermic and, if contained, may become violent. So it is very important to be careful when mixing styrene and polygrip and keep the bathroom door open.
Based on ToddAC's last post, it might be wise to wait until 2012 to make too much polystyrene given that the reaction is exothermic and all that.
Wrap it in tinfoil. That will solve the draftiness problem. Um, how big IS this paper clip 747.
I am fluent in Kiwi and Australian English and English English. The uninitiated may think that is the same as all English. It isn't. I have become fluent in American English and astound people with my knowledge.
I can understand a smattering of French and an even less smattering of Italian.
My daughter and her b/f thinks they all should be smattered as well. They keep going into France and leaving it as fast as they can.
Italy, they want to stay in forever. BUT, they met a very nice French couple in Italy who were there with their 16 yo daughter. They had dinners and day trips with them. They DID speak English though and they WERE in Italy for their summer holidays.
Wrap it in tinfoil. That will solve the draftiness problem.
That idea is worth a shot. Folks have been complaining about their hair.
Quote
Um, how big IS this paper clip 747.
It is full scale.
The reason that it is so fuel efficent is becaue air foils have an area called a recirculation zone which is an area that receives much attention from Aeronautical Engineer types. Because of the open "paper clip" wing design, the forces which would normally transect the lift zone actually pass harmlessly thru the wing and actually lift the aircraft instead. The aircraft can fly from NYC to LA on less than a liter of JP4 while carrying 412 passengers.
Since the maximum operational speed of a 747 is only slightly more than 500 mph, wouldn't hair spray be an alternative. Might even kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
On the other hand, the maximum velocity of a 747 is controlled primarily by the hoop strength of the fuselage in relation to the pressure drop along its axis due to friction. You seem to have solved that problem by eliminating the pressure barrier. I expect your 747 could go much faster and yet still be more fuel efficient. Good job!
[In all seriousness] What on earth are you talking about? BTW, I removed "anonymous" from my profile a long time ago. You will know where I am. I am not sure if I removed "private" but I definitely removed anonymous. I think I removed "private" too though.
Seriously, you guys know about management. What am I going to do about my colleague?
I am her manager. She applied for the job and I got it from outside. For 2 years this has been going on and it's reached a head right now. She thinks she should have equal status with me but no one wants to give her that because she has no people skills and it takes her forever to complete ANYTHING. She doesn't understand the way we use computers now and she FRUSTRATES the heck out of me.
She is constantly complaining about her role and took Friday and Monday off at the start of semester.
That, IMO, is your mistake. This is not a contest. There is no such thing as a perfect employee. You manage what you have to the best of their abilities. Her problems are a result of your inability to manage her properly. If frustrating the boss were a sin, I would be unemployable.
If she cannot properly use the computer, training solves that. You don't have to like your employees (again - I would be unemployable). You just have to learn to get the most out of them.
People who are unhappy in their jobs always complain about money. It is never about money. Why does she complain about her role? You, as her manager, should make it your responsibility to help modify her role so that it is a better fit for her.
Maybe part of the problem she has is she might feel a certain level of antagonism. If she feels you are there to help her and support her, maybe her attitude would change too. I don't know the whole story here. I only know what I have read in your last post. But, IMO, the failure may be yours - not hers.
What does she want out of her job? Don't tell me the answer is your job. It should be. Ambitious employees are generally a good thing. What else does she want out of her job?
You don't have to be her friend - just her mentor. Don't try to be her friend. Friendships create more problems than they solve in the work place.
It is true, I have tried to be her friend. I started on the back foot because she had been there a long time and knew everything when I knew nothing. Now I know everything about the job, I can see where she goes wrong. You are quite right you know, she does complain about the money but she really doesn't earn that much less than me.
I have tried to keep her involved but that is probably the problem. She feels devalued. I have tried to make her feel valued. But I do tend to take things over because it is quicker and I know it'll be done right. She complains about her role because she feels demoted. She is just not up to the role. It involves people skills she doesn't possess and will never possess.
I haven't been in a management position before. I was in a "sole" role at my last job. I do let her ride over me because I'm not authorative enough. I need to enforce boundaries but let her know that her role is important and valued.
She has the computer skills but won't use them because that's not "how she did it" before I arrived.
Wow, writing all that I can see how you are SO right. I WANT to get the most of her, she does have valuable skills and institutional knowledge. I try to support her, I praise everything she does right.
She wants to be valued. That's what she wants out of her job. But, she has to learn that I am going to be the one attending finance meetings etc. It's part of my role and we can't both do it.
I agree she was passed over and it hurt. But, it's been 2 years now.
Okay she was passed over. That is not your fault. You owe her no apologies for it. Now prove to her that your boss was right in the decision he made.
So you have boundaries. Good. How can she get the most out of her work within her envelope? Praising everything she does? That sounds hollow. If I were her, I would feel placated. Praising everything means nothing she does is special. Maybe you are exaggerating. But I think you get my point. Don't try to be something you are not. She sees through that. We all do.
I have had bosses that were complete AH's. But they were consistent AH's. That is good. It is the vacillating boss I hate the most.
Well, I have to be liked by everybody including her. I don't praise everything but I praise her when she has done a very good job.
I don't vacillate. I'm pretty consistent in backing down. LOL.
Yes, prove to her that their decision was right. It was, you know. My own boss is very, very happy with my performance. She needs to feel valued and just as important as she perceives herself to be. I'm not alone BTW, she gets everyone's backs up immediately. She is doing postgraduate study and I support that and encourage her. The only thing I don't do is set very firm boundaries. I can be very firm. I pride myself on being firm and fair. Just not with her.
Make her happy with her role. That's my task. Quite a job but it can be a challenge and not something I have to win. I want a champion for the Department not a detractor.
Well, I have to be liked by everybody including her.
Why?
Quote
I'm not alone BTW, she gets everyone's backs up immediately.
But she is not everyone's problem - she is your problem. How would you even know that if you weren't complaining to others about her? Why would you complain to coworkers about an employee? If someone made a complaint to me about one of my employees, I would jump down their throat.
You can transfer her or fire her but, by doing so, you are just passing your problems to someone else.
There ain't a man that can't be throwed and there ain't a horse that can't be rode.
I was warned about her in my first meeting with my manager the day I started my job. That's how I know about the "problems". At my interview they said I had a "difficult" colleague to deal with but didn't say much more than that.
I don't complain about her, people come to me and ask what they've done wrong to upset her and how to get along with her.
Employment laws here mean it's extemely hard to fire someone. She has been told that she can easily get promotion in another Department. She has told me she doesn't want to move. It's been suggested that I should look elsewhere. Well, I'm not moving either. When the registrar of the Dean's office pats you on the shoulder and says "you deserve a medal working with "her". you know you're up against something more than just a difficult colleague.
I will stop being throwed. Seriously, she could be a wonderful employee if she'd just get over herself.
Sorry, that remark was not very management inspired either.
So your boss is happy with your work but he is not happy with your employee's work. And you are a manager. Hmmm...
My boss thinks I do nothing. I do make my employees look very good. I also make my boss look very good. That is my job. Making others look good. I am somewhat good at it.
What if she doesn't get over herself? Or what does she do until then? I expect she can still be a pretty good employee now.
Quote
When the registrar of the Dean's office pats you on the shoulder and says "you deserve a medal working with "her".
And did you chuckle or politely rip them a new one? Employees are like family. You don't air your dirty laundry in public. I don't care how you feel about her personally, as long as she works for you, you need to defend her. Lie if you have to but by God stand up for her.
You think you deserve a medal? Just talk to MY boss! You have no clue how lucky you are.
Wow, stand up for her. I've never done that. I've always looked heavenwards and said "well, you know how it is...."
You know that would probably make all the difference.
A united front and keep reinforcing what she does well. Because there's a lot she does very well. Holmes, I think you've solved the case. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thank you.
BTW I have to be liked by everyone because I die inside if someone doesn't like me. Men, in particular, don't seem to get that.
I'm sure your boss doesn't thing you do nothing. Don't sell YOURSELF short. I don't spend a lot of time making myself look good. I spend a lot of time supporting the people I'm meant to. The academics, the students and the teaching assisants. That's all I want from her.
Also, don't forget we're talking university here, not corporate world.
Heads of Department (I think you call them Chairpersons) are brilliant academics but haven't been trained in management. Wishy washy management is the best way to describe it until we received our new incumbent HOD who is charismatic, has people skills and seems to understand management.
As George Bernard Shaw said: "those who can, do. those who can't, teach. those who can't teach, coach". Or I like the line from Ghostbusters that went something like "it's tough out there in the real world - they expect results!".
People don't have to like you to respect you. In fact, in the work place it is often counterproductive.
Needing people to like you is something you need to work on. It is not helping you be a better manager. There is nothing wrong with employees liking their boss - it is just not a requirement. Don't be overly friendly. University notwithstanding. People still need the same basic guidelines regardless of the setting. Your rules are no different.
P & T, Thanks for making my laugh with all the geekspeak! I think KiwiJ. has something with the tinfoil...
Can't see how you can make paperclips aerodynamic...you must be a real Criss Angel
Don't have a real appreciation for physics or organic chemistry so I can't get to any complex solutions...I think if everything were packed with the foodsaver (vacuum packer)life would be simpler...no waste of anykind let alone space
Seriously, the vacuum saver bags that come in all sizes are great for packing clothes and linens etc...lots of space left in your luggage/closet etc
Todd...author of award winning fiction or suffering delusions of granduer or could the books be 747 building for dummies...
I'm scared...NASCAR, roller blades, cowboys...definitely southern...how did the fireman part fit in? May I ask what the Nobel was for????
KiwiJ., Management issue advice...detach any emotion/friendship just be professional and pleasant like you would with any employee. Give her some paper work to complete that list: "How do you feel about your job? What is going well; what are you having challenges with; how could you improve; how could your manager improve; what are your expectations of your manager. Have her give this to you prior to an appointed date/time for you both to discuss current situation. During scheduled appt sit downand review your job expectations as well as the form she has completed...have it all in writing, discuss the job expectations, have her spit it back at you so you know she understands and have her sign it. Have her develop a written plan to get back on track if she is really far gone off the path of expectations...if mild just have her write down 3 goals with time frames and sched follow-up for midway to see how she is progressing.
You may not need to change your behavior based on her expectations of you but at least you will be able to see what she thinks and if it is realistic or not.
You can do all of this in a manner that is not demeaning and is more of peer review environment but she probably won't digest any better regardless of sitch since it seems that she is bitter about you being her boss. She may never get over it but that's not the point...as long as she performs to her job description and realistic expectations she can feel however she wants. Bottom line is you don't have to like each other you just have to work together and be productive.
If she feels all is well and is aware of her responsibilities you may have to give her a project and let her fall on her face with it...yes, more work for you but generates documentation for your use later once you get yourself a nice little paper trail going you could take more action in resolving the issues.
If you have already gotten mixed up in the whole trying to be friends thing then it will be akward so give her the whole this is business not personal chat and let her know your goal is for you to work as a team and be successful and the whole there is no "I" in team. A good book to read would be Kouzes and Posner's The Leadership Challenge.
I used to think all of the pettiness in sitches like the one you describe was a woman thing until 2 years ago I had the same exact sitch with a man who was bitter that I got a position instead of him and ended up being his supervisor...it was a long struggle but I learned tons. Some common attacks in these kind of sitches are: Union complaints, equal opportunity and discrimination complaints. They hold these like wild cards and throw them out in desparate times just to mess with your head. Not saying that these issues don't occur in reality but be sure to avoid any issues/discussion/situations that could put you at risk for accusations in these areas that would make them valid complaints.
Wow, sorry I got carried away thinking about what you were probably dealing with...good luck!
I need to get back to the paperclips and hairspray...much lighter and more fun.
That's it! Vacuum bags! I have been struggling with what to do with WW's clothes when she goes to Mexico so I can have more closet space. I'll pack them all in vacuum bags! Do they make them for shoes too?
I'll have to divert to Todd the linguist consultant as you are the instigator...my only solution is that I posted the English version...await T's Nobel prize winning insight and expertise!
You have a gift for recognizing loop holes quickly...are you as skilled at resolutions?
I can claim anything I want but you have unfortunately read most of my thread(s) so you would know I would be lying. Actually problem solving is a characteristic of good engineers. I just wish I were a good engineer.
LOL, let me rephrase...are you a quick to resolve work-related issues with such creativity and expedience???
The shoes can go in the vac bags but no shoe boxes...could wrap each pair in tissue paper to protect from friction. Could actually use towels or other linens that you would send to protect the shoes at the same time getting them packed...a 2fer...not sure if G would go for this approach depending on how protective she is of the shoes...
I can answer that. We were living in a high rise apartment in Dubai. I changed companies and we moved to a house but unfortunately WW left to go to Mexico while we were in process of moving. Since it was only a short move, packing was not entirely professional. She packed her shoes in several large boxes. I am now in the house and trying to make some space so I took the boxes and emptied them out on the floor in front of the closet. I did not mistreat the shoes in any way. But they were in a rather large pile. When she got back and saw the house and the sad state it was in, she had no complaints - until she saw the shoes. We didn't speak for a week after that.
I guess shoes in a vac bag could be a marriage buster...this could be used in 2 ways...if I were you I'd be sure to box the shoes...
Ironically, I once got the cold shoulder and lots of verbal backlash for putting my boot(military) on the bed! I was astounded and thought it was a joke but H took it as a personal message of disrespect for me not appreciating all the effort he made around the house to keep things neat and clean for me. I used to leave my coffee spoon on the sink when I'd leave for work each day...found out years later that it was taken as another disrespect message. Had I known I was sending signs I would have happily put the spoon in the dishwasher!
Is your husband Arabic? Shoe bottoms have a very special meaning for Arabs. they are a tremendous insult. Just crossing your legs and showing your shoe bottom to an Arab is enough to get you killed in the right setting. Putting shoes on the bed would certainly do it. Stoning most likely.
Apparently there is no "I" in the word "team" in Russian (команда), German (Mannschaft), Norwegian (lag), Chinese (小组) or Italian (squadra). It seems it is only the Spanish and the French who are so egocentric.
Actually I don't think vacuum bags will help with WW's clothes. She already has her clothes wedged in so tightly on the rack that our closet has achieved neutron star density. It bends light. If the closet door is open and I turn the closet light on, no light comes out the doorway. Small children walking too close can easily get sucked in by the gravitational attraction.
BTW, I didn't know about the Russian thing but then I don't understand the acrylic alphabet.
The Nobel was for my ground-breaking work in Quantum Mechanics. I solved a couple of the riddles that haunted Einstein. There is still a great divide in our understanding, however.
I have never written a book entitled "Delusions of Grandeur". Sorry.
Of the three published books, two are on physics and the third delves into experimental psychology, sorta a hobby of mine. It is called "Neurotics Build Castles in the Sky and Psychotics Live in Them". It is an interesting look at the power stucture in American politics.
Vacuum bags eh? I know of a GWTW doll collection I would love to shrink wrap. I wonder if I could get its size down to 134,112 cubic meters so that it would fit in her closet. Hmmm....
Neutron stars Pio? Now we are talking! It is a common misperception that if a star becomes a Black Hole that everything in the heavens would be "sucked" into it. Take our star for instance. If the Sun became a Black Hole tomorrow, the Earth's orbit would not change by the width of an ant's eyebrow. It would immediately get dark and soon very cold, but those are different matters.
And Black Holes do not "bend" light. The operative definition is that the escape velocity of a Black Hole is greater than the speed of light. So says Einstein.
And BTW, the manner in which I derived the groundbreaking research on recirculation zones is through an intimate understanding of Einstein's definition of gravity, to wit: the unseen curvature of space caused by the presence of matter. So, with the paper clip air foil, if there is no zone to recirculate (being an open paper clip design), the lift/drap coefficient changes dramatically for the better.
***It is called "Neurotics Build Castles in the Sky and Psychotics Live in Them".
and the sequel..."And Psychiatrist's collect the rent"
your abstract, analytical scienfific jargon is off the charts...I need boots to navigate along with a search tools to translate the lingo...too much effort involved 4 me
enjoy the foil and clips...I'll jump back in when it involves less work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
2much, I couldn't sleep last night, got up at 3.00am and read your WONDERFUL post to me.
Quote
Some common attacks in these kind of sitches are: Union complaints, equal opportunity and discrimination complaints. They hold these like wild cards and throw them out in desparate times just to mess with your head.
Yes, yes, yes, yes that it is what is happening now.
Anyway, enough about work, I just wanted to thank you all for the time you've taken to think about my sitch and the great advice you've given me.
I went back to bed and slept peacefully.
Now back to whatever it is you're all talking about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
His sentence was "de policeman blew dificil". They never went back to Spanish class again.
Pio, I just wanted to let you know that I got the best laugh of the day, when you posted your grandpa's story, and I got to this punch line. And I have to tell you, in all honesty, I don't think your apple fell all that far from his tree!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
KiwiJ., Happy to be of assistance...how horrible for you...I look back and think that my experience with my disgruntled employee almost gives my marital sitch a run for it's money...the difference was that my H was so clear headed on how I should treat the employee...actually gave me advice that I used.
Now having said that when H put me in similiar positions of dishonesty, not accepting accountability or responsibility for his behavior, denial, whining, fingerpointing, being the victim, tring to transfer guilt to me, putting on exterior front when out and being pure mean when home...never did he see or even think that I should apply the same tactics on him as I would an employee. For some reason the rules didn't apply to him.
Too bad I love the H so much I'm willing to endure all this insanity. I thought I had toughened up and detached but he is still here. I am committed and if things don't improve in the near future I will truly be committed...I'll move into ToddAC's neurotic castle in the sky and pay rent...LOL
Doesn't ANYONE want to talk about infidelity any more? This other stuff is just too depressing.
Our DDs are so excited about going to Disneyworld. It is fun to watch. Last week I posted that we told the DDs about gemela going to Mexico and DD1 was really upset and wanted to go with her.
Night before last we were playing Uno and DD1 (who always keeps score for some reason we have never understood) was showing me in her book that she had written to me "I don't like you any more" and told me she wrote that the night we talked about Mexico. She told me that she was mad when she wrote it and it isn't true and that she really loves me and she doesn't want to go to Mexico any more.
On second thought, let's don't talk about infidelity.
Oh and ToddAC, don't trouble yourself on the perpetual motion thing. I pretty much have it sorted out. If I can just figure out how to keep the battery from running down all the time, I think I'm done.
Huh??? Are you referring to indifference? I'm smirking remembering the 3 legged dog stuff...my old friend had a 3 legged dog named Lucky...maybe somehow we are all lucky to experience this misery and grow from it. I just started a book called "The Places that Scare You: A guide to fearlessness in difficult times" by Pema Chodron. It is excellent and insightful.
I know for me if it weren't for my children I wouldn't have had the patience to hang in the way I am...it would be much easier to end it. I fear that this is like treating a gangrenous appendage: option 1- antibiotics, multiple dressing changes each day, lots of attention and care, long term healing, lots of pain and stink and could still possibly loose the appendage. Option 2- amputate immediately, grieve the loss and cope with life without the limb...initial severe pain but a quicker process with a definite outcome.
Picking option 1 means patience, fluctuations of healing, reinfection, healing, pain, backslides, progress, pain, patience etc...possibly salvage the appendage but may have chronic problems due to the initial injury possibly still have to amputate.
Or by freedom did you mean that H chose to stay? If so, I think there are multiple reasons why "freedom" is not so appealing at the present but don't want to make assumptions or judgements so I am just accepting the staying for what it is without any meaning until I see actions to show me why H is staying. He gave me his rationale but it is a mix of issues: primarily kids, $, "part of me still loves you", convenience, he wants to "be friends again"
I am impatient and am trying not to place any expectations or judgements based on past history...this is excrutiatingly difficult and is teaching me great skills in emotional restraint and mind control.
Aren't you glad you dropped that one liner????
BTW, if you kept your bikes in the house and G didn't have issues with that I have to say she is pretty tolerant and must have some great foundational building blocks that you guys could work with if you both end up trying to recover. Sounds like you both have strong personalities...just a guess!
Seriously, why don't you toss out some supportive geekspeak for me and then I wouldn't have to face reality????
Why do you think I keep butting in? I'm trying to avoid getting in touch with my pain rececptors! I'm sure you have some sound evidence-based techniques to offer up...just steer away from the scientific, try to keep it simple for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Uh, the only black cross that shows up? I am NOT talking about infidelity. I can't decide if I am indifferent toward indifference or I have indifference to being indifferent toward indifference. Is there a difference?
Well, you know of my vision problems. Sorry, see no black cross. I am also color blind but just for clarity sakes, I see no red, blue, green, yellow, purple, white or any other color cross.
BTW, 2much wanted to read some non-scientific stuff.
Do you think Suzet* was truly mad or was she playing?
But it SUITS you. Hey this is free message board and I can call you what I like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
In NZ there is a lingerie selling website called Jennifer Anne.com. As you know, Jennifer Anne is my full name. A manager at my last job insisted on calling me Jennifer Anne.com. The first time, kinda funny, the 2nd time, not so funny, the 50th time, I smiled through gritted teeth.
We have explained the necessity for the additions to our names. But for the learning impaired (you Todd) I will explain it again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When the board was closed for maintenance or upgrading or whatever we lost the ability to sign in as ourselves. Hence, we added little add ons to identify us as the same people but with small differences. Suzet* actually added her * after someone also pointed out that you couldn't be googled if you had an * after or in your name.
Can we now drop this as I am extremely indifferent to it and apathetic about your interest in it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Do you think Suzet* was truly mad or was she playing?
ToddAC, yes I was only playing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Fair enough, but don't call Suzet* Suzet* She seems a bit sensitive about the *
Not at all! I really don’t care whether I’m called Suzet or Suzet with the * or whatever. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Suzet* actually added her * after someone also pointed out that you couldn't be googled if you had an * after or in your name.
Jen, actually I've added the * after I’ve lost my previous password due to a change in my e-mail address back in 2003. When this happened I had to re-register and set up a new profile. When I registered again I wasn’t allow (and still aren’t allow) to use my previous screen name without the *. When that issue about google came up, I’ve done a test and accidentally discovered that google couldn’t find my posts under the current screen name with the * (google could only find my post with the previous profile and screen name Suzet). It’s then when I’ve posted about my “discovery” and some people started to put symbols after (or in) their screen names as well.
Ok Todd...throwing out some topics: food; funniest moment you can recall; biggest waste of $ you ever spent; political views on stem cell research funding; best and cheapest place to vacation; best/worst book you've read; best character trait you possess/worst
alright, that should get you started. hopefully there is nothing to deep or depressing in the suggested topics
music is always another choice or favorite movies
really bad day yesterday so jump on these and get the ball rolling for I need to catch a ride on the diversion express!!!
Please excuse the t/j but you don't want to discuss infidelity. Neither do I BTW.
2much,
You asked for it. Following are my responses. Want to know more, just ask more.
ToddAC^
1. Food – I am fond of food. My STBXW is from Puerto Rico. At the time I met her, I had never eaten any food other than usual American fare. I have always been a picky eater. Well, she and I went to her parents for me to meet her Mom and sample her food. It was unlike any food I had ever tasted.
Long story short, I ended up loving the food and made a veritable pig of myself which delighted my MIL to no end. We became instant friends. Meanwhile, my STBXW could not boil water. I did the cooking at home. Gradually by finally watching and learning from her accomplished Mom, she learned to cook and surpassed me in no time. Whereas I had cooked 98% of all the meals for a few years, once she learned to cook, I was no longer allowed in the kitchen. Except to wash dishes of course.
2. Funniest moment I can recall – After I received my undergraduate degree, I joined a company which had a formal organizational chart and upper management loved to have the new recruits in to their office and preach to them about “the good old days”. I was part of an eight person team that was being trained by a woman who had been with the company for over five hundred years. Improbable yes, but absolutely true.
We were all paraded out of our offices one day and had to visit the highest ranking manager yet. The man was funny, I am sorry, he was just funny. There was a slight problem however: he didn’t realize he was funny. As we sat there listening to the verbal equivalent of the water torture, the humor of the situation sunk in and I could not contain myself. I looked down, covered my mouth and tried to stifle my laugher. However, my body was shaking like a leaf blowing in a hurricane. Soon, all of my fellow team mates were shaking, doing their best to not laugh out loud. The spinster trainer was dejected and really pissed at my/our behavior. But finally, even she caught the infection of laughter at the manager and started shaking herself.
Of course, back in her office, I got the lecture of my life. In the middle of her sternness, I interrupted and asked: he was funny wasn’t he?
She let go of a good belly laugh and sent me back to my desk.
3. Biggest waste of dollars I ever spent – I am thoughtful with money. Not cheap, just don’t waste it for no good reason. My STBXW is my polar opposite with regard to money. She never met a dollar bill she didn’t like to spend.
Gosh, where do I start? Okay, with the Gone With the Wind dolls. These are dolls made by Madame Alexander. She has at least one of every Scarlet doll ever made by MA. And then there is Rhett and all the others, two Puerto Rican dolls, Miss America dolls, Valentine dolls, Princess dolls, countless bride dolls, Little Red Riding Hood, etc….. You get the idea.
She has forty GWTW dolls alone. I do not know the total number of dolls but I would be ashamed to report it if I did know.
Oh, and BTW, this is the woman who “never spends money on herself”. She has lots of shoes but not the fetish that Pio’s WW has. She also collects cookware, china, silver, crystal and Daiquiri glasses. Oh and wine, although the wine doesn’t seem to stay “collected” for very long.
4. Political views on stem cell research funding – Okay I am going to stay away form the underlying issue here, but suffice it to say that politically, I am a Libertarian in the vein of Thomas Jefferson. So, necessarily, I am opposed to any government spending program other than national defense, law enforcement and a judicial system.
5. Best and cheapest place to vacation – Can I also name the worst? The worst is Bermuda in March. Think rain and cold. I know, what did I expect? Cheapest place? Hmm…. Gastonia, NC. There is a reason why it is the cheapest.
Best vacation spot? Hmm…. Tough one. I actually prefer simple vacations like renting a place on the beach for a week and lying out there next to the water’s edge and doing little more than lifting twelve ounce weights. Vacations where you snap two thousand pictures of Big Ben don’t do much for me.
6. Best book I have read – I cannot name just one book, can I name a few?
Catch 22, The Great Gatsby, Grapes of Wrath, Fools Die, The Last Convertible, The Brothers Karamazov and The Road Less Traveled.
Worst book I have read – The Old Man and the Sea. This book was my downfall in high school freshman English/Lit class. Ms. McGraw specifically made me read and report on this book because of my infamous ability to not recognize what she termed “obvious metaphors”. So, I read the book and wrote my report. I basically wrote that the book was about an old man who was washed up as a fisherman but one day he took his little boat out and caught a humongous fish and as he rowed back to land, sharks ate his big fish. That was it. She asked didn’t I get the underlying story that Hemingway told? No, I can assure you, Ms. McGraw, I thought it merely to be a story about an old man who caught a big fish.
Well, to my surprise, she went on and explained all the imagery and metaphors that the book contains. I flunked my paper. BTW, I still don’t believe it.
Here’s a bonus: we had to review movies, excuse me, films. My assigned movie was “Swept Away”. Again, my paper was simple and to the point: a rich lady went on a cruise and the boat shipwrecked. Blah blah blah, sort of like Gilligan’s Island.
Well, as you can prolly imagine, that was the wrong answer. Ms. McGraw claimed the “film” was about shifting power in relationships. Ha!
7. Best character trait I posses – Hmm…. Can I get back to you on this one? I mean, just one? Wow, what a challenge. Just kidding of course. My best character trait is my honesty.
My worst character trait – hmm… can I get back to you on this one? Just kidding again. Vindictiveness. Can’t help it, have always had big amounts of it.
Thank you...a much needed break from my boatload of work with deadlines for tomorrow...yes, I am the queen of procrastination
1. Had some friends way back last decade or so and learned to love PR food as well, lucky for me they moved and I never caught on to the cooking...otherwise I would have some BMI issues:)
2. Your funniest moment had me shaking and laughing as I could picture it perfectly. Sadly I can't recall my funniest moment, I'll have to give it thought, I'm sure it must be in some mental file way back...
3. I myself am frugal but H is also "polar opposite" I tended to give into major purchases which I could care less about just to keep H happy...most of the purchcases were worth it but in 1995 when the RCA satellite dish first came out...over 1K for a satellite that a few years later was being given away free with satellite service...waste since I could live happily without TV
4. I agree with your funding point of view
5. Your own backyard when your marriage is alive and passionate...otherwise the Pocanos in PA is cheap, fun and truly tacky!
Topsail Island in NC is also a good spot and not lots of $
6. Books....The Hot House, The Road Less Traveled, Kiss the Girls, Embraced by the Light, The 5 People You Meet in Heaven, The Present, Dinner with a Perfect Stranger to name a few
7. Ditto to best/worst: when I think I am right I must have evidence to the contrary before I believe I am wrong I am indignant and hostile until proven wrong and then it is difficult to acknowledge my falibility!
Favorite movie: Cinema Paradiso Least: My Dinner with Andre (walked out)
Ahhhhhh great break...now to get back to reality...thanks for the diversion. If you ever do feel the need to throw your .02 in on infidel strategy I wouldn't mind hearing your philosophy, lessons learned but no pressure!
Ok, I am well aware of the "Bad Day" song and am quite fond of it...just didn't know the artist! Plenty of other descriptive tunes but I could ramble forever...
You can change it if we don't have to write that all out every time we talk to you.
I know this will cause all of you a great deal of hilarity but my best character traits used to be honesty and loyalty. I don't know what they are now. Maybe I haven't got any.
I've just had an e-mail from my female manager (I've got the day off today) saying "we need to talk." I'm assuming it's about my colleague and it's really upset me because she hasn't actually told me what she "needs" to see me about so I'm going to stew about it all weekend.
I'm going to hand my notice in if this keeps going. I'm just too tired and depressed by it all.
I just wanted to make it clear that it's all work related. If a male manager had e-mailed saying "we need to talk" you may have all got the wrong idea.
I have a line manager above me who handles administrative staff but is not part of the Department and she comes below but almost parallel with the Head of Department, who handles academic staff but also administrative staff, if you understand that weird heirachy. (sheesh, universities).
I guess my subordinate has been making the most of my day's leave to cause more trouble.
Your manager did you and your "problem" emplyee a disservice. She should have left it to you to form an opinion of the employee. When she negatively portrayed the employee to you, she painted a self-fulfilling prophecy, also called a Pygmalion Effect. It is the power of your manager's expectations.
It is difficult to turn yourself around is such circumstances let alone the employee. But, it can be done. What you have to do is to wipe her slate clean, as if you know nothing about her and stay fresh from there. Yes, it is difficult, but think of the sense of accomplishment you will have if you do this.
There was some chatter in this thread a couple of nights ago about whether money is a motivator. It is not, however, it is a satisfier.
Read the theories of Herzberg. He described "hygenic" factors that must be in place for motivation to occur.
Set a challenge for yourself with this employee. There is no greater feeling in the world than to turn an employee around 180 degrees.
Try to understand her and what makes her tick. Find things that motivate her. Fulfillment of such a challenge will do wonders for your work ego.
For reference, at the time I started my medical leave, I was a Senior Vice President for a major US corporation. I was a sought after manager that others internally wanted to work for, because I had the track record of ensuring success for my subordinates.
You can do this. The first step is to change your own attitude. It is the only chasm between you and success for your employee. Become her cheerleader instead of detractor. You will be amazed at the difference.
An aside to the training manager. One day, I walked down the corridor headed to an economics class that was part of my MBA program. I heard a voice call out: ToddAC, you mean nobody has killed you yet?
It was the training manager I wrote about. I went back and talked with her. She is so serious. But before I headed for class, I reminded her of the incident and left her in stiches. I left the job a few months later. Her husband is a total different story however. She was a rising star within the corporation and he was a teacher, so her salary prolly tripled his. To compensate, he devised one get rich quick after another. Every venture he tried lost money. Oh well, you had to be there I guess...
Try to understand her and what makes her tick. Find things that motivate her. Fulfillment of such a challenge will do wonders for your work ego.
I've almost done this one. She likes to be busy and to be involved. I involved her yesterday, I kept her informed all day of a fire that needed to be put out. I involved her in the firefighting process. She said she would wait till Monday (when I'm back) to deal with the results and I know this is because she doesn't trust her own judgement and she trusts mine. That's gotta be a plus doesn't it?
Part of her wants to be the "top dog", part of her is glad that I'm in the firing line of all the problems.
I need to work on that. All she wants is to be involved and be part of the process.
I have so many favourite books I couldn't list them all. I read anything and everything. I can't read "trash airport" fiction even for escapism. It just annoys me. I guess my favourite books are the ones I read over and over. Owning a bookstore (as we do) helps with my reading material. There is an author from Western Australia called Tim Winton and I LOVE his stuff. Also anything by Margaret Drabble, an English author. The classics, Shakespeare you name it, I've read it and loved it. Catcher in the Rye, To Kill a Mockingbird, Little Women, The Little House books, Lord of the Flies. Read 'em , loved 'em. Modern literature, ancient literature, read it, loved it.
And I don't have trouble with metaphors and symbolism *rolleyes*.
My favourite movies:
The Big Chill, The Big Easy (I LOVE that movie), anything vintage (like from the 40s), Ice Age, Shrek, I LOVED Hayley Mills films when I was a kid. Most chick flicks for escapism - gee, I dunno, I love the movies.
Didn't read The Old Man and the Sea. Don't like Hemingway. I know I should have read it but I'm betting it's not about an old man that caught a big fish. I'm not into that macho thing. I used to read a lot of Robert Ruark, who was of the same ilk, but he used to annoy me even when I was a teenager.
"Swept Away", I haven't seen.
Sheesh, now I sound like a total ignoramus.
Ask me about "War and Peace". I HAVE read that.
Couldn't you have asked me about something I HAVE read or seen.
OOh, just remembered another favourite movie. "My Father's Castle" and the sequel the name of which escapes me. It's a French autobiographical movie that is just WONDERFUL. It's also important to me because my son's girlfriend at the time, who was the product of a very unhappy home (foster homes and being shunted here and there) and who had all sorts of problems, later sorted out by joining the army (which Rob and I gave her the confidence to join), watched it with me (she was living with us) and said she had no idea that life could be so beautiful or so moving.
It was one of the highlights of my life, getting through to that girl.
Did you know that when Tolstoy was a boy, he formed a club and to be initated into the club, a prospective member had to stand in the corner and not think of a white bear for thirty minutes?
Those Russians were cruel!
Anyway, how about "The Brothers Kamamazov"?
It is a bruising book in that it deals with ill children. I had trouble finishing the book because of that.
I personally think Hemingway was a fraud. A very drunk fraud at that.
Have you read Faulkner? Carson McCullers? Tennessee Williams? F. Scott Fitzgerald?
Are you into poetry? My favorite by far is William Butler Yeats. I also am fond of the British masters: Tennyson, Milton, Browning, et al.
BTW, where the heck is head lice?
You don't think he is actually working do you? I guess it is the weekend now in SA. Dang time zones. Very confusing to simple minds.
I HAVE read War and Peace. I like the Russians. Not The Brothers Karamazov but My Childhood by Gorky and Anna Karenina. Yes, Faulkner (love it), yes, F Scott Fitzgerald. Carson McCullers I struggled with. Poetry, the beat poets from Liverpool and Leonard Cohen and Coleridge. ee cummings, Yeats and Keates. Robert Graves, anything by, DH Lawrence, anything by.
You struggled with Carson McCullers? Wow. That is interesting.
Have you read her poetry? "The Mortgaged Heart" is a billiant poem.
How about Mario Puzo? A great storyteller. Best known for "The Godfather", he wrote a couple of critically acclaimed books: "The Dark Arena" and "The Fortunate Pilgrim". One of my favorite contemporary writers.
Okay, continuing with 2much's theme, what is the funniest situation you have been in?
What day is it BTW in NZ?
I may have mentioned this but my youngest son had a college friend from NZ who attended the university on a tennis scholarship. She has moved back to NZ and has invited my son down. Cheap vacation if he can afford the airfare. I hear it is beautiful there.
It is Friday here. 5.38pm. It IS beautiful here. Everything you could ever want (ski fields, scenery, unspoilt beaches) all within a 4hr max plane trip.) Being two long skinny islands, everyone lives by the sea. Sort of, some have to drive a couple of hours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> One of our teaching assistants (tutors we call them) is from Indiana. He and his wife have become official NZ residents.
Funniest situation? I will have to think about that. I tend to get into idiotic situations quite frequently but nothing comes to mind right now.
That's what I have heard. I know of an American on a different online community, one devoted to stock trading, who moved his family to NZ and absolutely loves it.
Many Americans have a fascination with Au and NZ. The new frontier or something like that.
Well it has been a strange few days. Where to begin? Wednesday morning I had agreed with WW that she would pick me up at the office at 9:00AM so we could go together to the US Consulate to get a POA notarized. I am trying to get my Harley registered in Texas and need a friend to help. Gemela had dropped me off at the dentist at 7:00AM so her morning was going to be pretty short. No time to play golf, etc. Anyway, all was well. Until… I got a call from DD1’s school nurse telling me she was sick. Nurse had tried to call WW at home but she was not there and that I needed to pick up DD1 and take her home. I said okay. But I had no car. I tried to call WW and the maid answered and said WW was not at home. She told me she had left a while ago and was going to be out until she picked me up at 10:00AM (not 9:00AM). I asked if she knew where WW was. She told me she was at an apartment. I said thanks and hung up and then worked on a plan to pick up DD1. I was also in a rage. I could think of no reason for WW to be out. If she had needed to go to the grocery store, she would have gone home before picking me up. Why did she tell the maid she would not be home until lunch and why was she at an apartment? I was just furious. Obviously I was imagining the worst. A friend had the division car and needed me to help him go pick up his car at the dealer so I asked if we could go get DD1 and take her home first and we did. This would mean that I would have to postpone the consulate but I had no idea were WW was so could not discuss this with her. We got DD1 and took her home. She is fine BTW. She just wanted to play hooky from school I think.
So we leave my house about 9:00AM and I ask to drive back by the office on the way to the car dealer (it is on the way) just on the odd chance that WW is there. We get there about 9:10 and sure enough there is WW. I go talk to her and say “where the he11 have you been? The school tried to call you because DD1 is sick. I took her home, etc. We will have to delay the consulate but she needs to get home and see if DD1 needs to go to the doctor. She said she was at IC. I asked why she would not have told me that. I say it is now more obvious than ever that we need to be apart. We fought all day long by telephone and in person. It was ugly.
Now pay attention because this is where we have the difference of opinion. This is what we fought about but I don’t think WW understands it. She kept begging me to call the IC and verify her story. I told her I didn’t need to. I honestly believed her and still do. The problem is not that I doubt where she was. The problem is that she seems to still want to keep secrets. What would it have cost her to simply tell me that she had an IC appointment? She said she forgot until just before the appointment time. I said she had known about the appointment for a week – why didn’t she mention it before. She said she never thought the school would call and tell us DD1 was sick. This is where we have the problem. I cannot get WW to understand. I told her she has to be completely honest. Secrets are not helping our situation. [BTW, we both found out in separate conversations that, when my maid says “apartment”, she means “appointment”. She doesn’t speak English all that well. Couldn’t she have picked a better word to screw up on?]
At the end of the day I just told WW that we only had a few more days together so we shouldn’t fight. She asked what that meant. She asked if the separation was going to be permanent. I said I believed it would be. I believed that she wouldn’t wait more than a week in Mexico to call OM and start her affair again and then we would be done forever. I also told her that it was not fair to me to ask me to stay married to a woman who did not love me and never did. I got a lot of denials about this BTW. Then she said 5 months in Mexico was too long and wanted to come back sooner. She said she wished we could all go to Mexico. I said too bad. It wasn’t going to happen. She said Mexico was my idea to begin with. I said I had changed my mind. Learn to live with it. She said if I believed that she was going to start up with OM that she didn’t want to go to Mexico. I said she needed to go because we cannot continue to go on like we are going. I love her but am losing those feelings with this continual problems of lies, half-truths and secrets. I would be happier alone than with her. What can I say? It was not pretty.
Thursday we had already planned to go to Bahrain so she could get her hair done and then we could drink margaritas. We went. Surprisingly we got along really well. No anger from the previous day. I dropped her off and then went to Toys R Us to get some games for the DDs. Then I had a couple of beers while waiting for WW. We went to lunch and we had a great time. We drank margaritas and WW got borracha. We made it back home and WW went upstairs. I stayed down to open up the new Bratz for the DDs and then went upstairs to find WW hugging the toilet. I got her in bed and got her an ice bag and stayed with her until she went to sleep and then went back down to assemble Mouse Trap for the DDs. I didn’t see gemela again until Friday morning. We had a tee time for 7:30.
I woke her up on Friday and she seemed fit enough to play so we got dressed and went. It was HOT! 45C. But I played very well. WW and I got along so well on Friday. We went home after golf and had lunch. Nothing too eventful for the rest of the day but in the afternoon we played Scrabble and Life with the DDs. Later gemela and I were in the floor watching Entertainment Tonight and it was all about affairs, Christie Brinkley, other movie stars with unfaithful spouses, etc. I was watching all this with gemela with no triggers whatsoever. I felt, in the moment, like her A happened a thousand years ago and was all behind us. I think she may have felt that too. It was just strange.
Anyway, that is how my weekend went. I have no idea what any of it means. I know the IC, sick DD, maid’s broken English all happened for a reason. That was not coincidence. Why did it happen? Just weird.
I did ask WW if the IC wants to see us again for MC. She said no. The IC doesn’t really want to see me. I noticed she has stopped taking her AD and I asked why. She said the IC says she doesn’t need it any more – that neither of us does. Well I’m still taking mine – at least until WW is gone to Mexico.
Ok, I've read your post a couple of times. I understand your anger, most of me understands your anger. Under your circumstances all of me understands your anger. Gemela isn't under house arrest you know. But then, it wouldn't have hurt her to tell you she was going to IC - unless she thought it would start an A discussion again. Which she seems to hate.
Pio, you need to be clear in your own mind that when she wants to come home you're going to accept her home. I can almost see this playing out. She'll beg to come home but you will only believe that things will be the same again and you'll refuse.
Do you have a plan? For when she begs to come home (she will you know), some sort of boundaries to make sure you're not back at square one. Or a plan for refusing to let her come home? I know you've tried to establish all this over the last year (boundaries, honesty etc) but when it's really crunch time she's going to need to know that this time, if you agree to stay together, you won't put up with the same old crap.
I'm sure wiser posters than me will have ideas. Pep springs to mind.
Pio, you need this break very badly and FWIW I think it's your only choice.
I was going to, BigK, but thought Pio needed help more than you needed (deserved) a slap and it didn't seem fair to yuck it up when he's going through all this.
B, there are not many authors I hate. I love the written word. (I hated the Da Vinci Code though I thought it was a badly written potboiler trying to pretend it was a serious book). Some just don't speak to me like others do. When I said I struggled with Carson McCullars, I just couldn't get into The Heart is a Lonely Hunter. It's still on our bookshelf, maybe I'll try it again. We're all different in our tastes - I still think you're the cat's pyjamas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LOL my mother says that.
You can talk about politics JUST THIS ONCE, the world situation being what it is right now.
Jen - I LOVE books - almost any kind. I read a couple every week and have all of my life. I actually carry one around with me every where. People can't believe I read that much, but I read in line at the store, in the bathroom, at night, sometimes even while waiting for the light to change when driving.
Politics - I used to support Israel, but I've had it. Like Piojitos says - poor Lebanon.
Yes I know gemela is not under house arrest. If the nurse had not called, I would never have known gemela had been out of the house. I don't check up on her. I don't follow her. I would love to get her a cell phone for emergencies but, since I took the Snap-On dead blow hammer to her last cell phone and ran the truck over OM's cell phone, I am not a big fan of cell phones.
BTW I told gemela that I think her IC has zip experience with infidelity and I wonder if she is even degreed. Gemela told me the same thing. She says she would like to change IC but is afraid of hurting her feelings. I asked her what was more important - IC's feelings or her marriage. She decided she will change.
We don't talk about what goes on but she says that IC spends more time chatting about what she has done lately, where she has gone, what clothes she has bought than talking about problems. Gemela says sometimes she has to cut her off and remind her that there are issues to discuss.
I see the fear of separation as the salvation of the marriage. Gemela has already told me she cannot stay in Mexico till December. She has asked to be able to come back sooner. I told her she can come back whenever she wants. I don't think it will be very long. But she has to decide when she is coming back. I won't do it for her. I don't think, until very recently, that gemela has understood that this is all very real. I feel like she is finally starting to kick up her heals. Good for her.
Actually I was friends with every girl in my high school. I must have been because every time I would ask one to go out with me, they would turn me down because they didn't want to destroy our friendship. Except for Nancy that is. She had to wash her hair.
LOL, I used the "washing hair" excuse once. He kept on being persistent and it got harder and harder to explain why I needed a whole evening to wash my hair.
I used the "babysitting" excuse once too. Gee, and I'm the person who just said I prided myself on my honesty.
Your sentence was incorrect. It should have been "But you know what pride goeth before....."
I never got why you could use hair washing as an excuse. Maybe in the days of rollers and hairspray and pincurls and perms, but this was the late 60s and I had long hair that just needed washing and drying.
Poor Pio. I'm sure you weren't really that much of a nerd. Didn't your razor sharp wit appeal to them? Er, no it probably didn't.
This is the hardest logic problem I have ever come across. If you already know the answer, don't ruin it.
Here is the situation. You have just arrived by airplane on an island and you are the only foreigner on the island. All you know about this island is that it only has one city and that the island is completely inhabited by two indigenous tribes. One of the tribes is proverbial truth tellers. I.e. they can never ever tell a lie. The other tribe is made of proverbial liars – they can never ever tell the truth. You are driving along heading in the general direction of the city and you come to a fork in the road. You are not sure which way to go and there is no road sign. While you are sitting there trying to decide what to do, a native comes walking along. You do not know which tribe the man belongs to but you want to seek his help to know which road to take to get to the city. Problem is you don't know if he is a truth teller or a lair. But you have always prided yourself on your superior intelligence so you decide that you are going to ask this man one question and one question only and, based on his answer, you will be able to take the correct road to the city. What is the question?
On a separate subject, I have always had a doubt about you people on the bottom side of the planet. How do you keep your change in your pockets since you walk upside down?
I agree Todd, that serious stuff gives me a headache.
Pio, we have suckers on our feet and blutack in our pockets. Seems to solve the problem nicely.
I don't know the answer to your logic question. I've heard the answer before somewhere but, like my funny experience, it escapes me.
Todd, Rob has SO many funny experiences from his time working at the Courts (23 years). Someone wrote a poem for his leaving party and it incorporated all the experiences over the years.
Can I relate the best one? I'm going to anyway. I'm sure they've tightened this up at the courts because it sounds terrible but here goes anyway.
When the jury retired after a particularly long and gruelling case the attorneys and the court staff wentto the Crown Room to wait for the verdict. One particular night it was 11.00pm and the jury was still out and looked like they'd be out for quite some time. The bar was opened and the attorneys and the court staff began to drink. One or two drinks was ok but at 3.00am the jury still hadn't come back.
They came back at about 4 in the morning. The attorneys and the court staff had *ahem* a bit to drink.
This is in the days of wigs and gowns here and one barrister put his wig on backwards.
Rob, as usual, asked the jury foreman if the decision was unanimous. He said umianimous, he said umianoumous, he said muni... The judge said in a very stern voice "Mr Registrar, SIT DOWN. Mr Foreman, is the jury all agreed?"
Meanwhile, the barrister with the wig on backwards kept blowing the tail it of it up off his face.
Afterwards, they were all taken into the Judge's chambers and the floor was wiped with them.
A follow up to this. Rob was recently on a book buy at this particular Judge's house, now long retired. Rob said with great trepidation "er, do you remember me?"
The Judge said "of course I do and I'll never forget that night. I came home and told my wife and cried with laughing."
No, that is just how I remember it. I may have gotten it off a bit. I did look at google out of curiosity but the top sites were blocked by our proxy server so I gave up.
The problem with modern English is that we are losing the subjunctive tense through usage. Most people don't understand the difference between "if I was going to..." and "if I were going to...". Of course, remember that I am from Arkansas. There it is "if'n I beed gonna...".
Yes, Arkansas. I remember that when I'm posting to you.
I always use "were going to" if I want to sound posh and smart. I think "was" is the correct usage. Were, of course is a plural but sounds kinda good. It's good for icy usage.
When you say "modern English" do you mean American English or English English. Here, the kids are brainwashed by television and music into using American English. If I hear one more under 30 use "skedule" for "shedule" (schedule) I think I'm going to scream.
Also, "gotten" is not used in English English but as Bill Bryson pointed out in "Mother Tongue" we use it in "forgotten". We say "got" not "gotten".
When you say I could care less that means nothing to us. We say "I couldn't care less". Could care less means you DO care. There are so many more I sometimes wonder if we speak the same language.
Well I am no linguist but I did take freshman English four times so am somewhat of an expert.
"were" is subjunctive and indicates an impossibility.
For example, "if I were you" is correct because you cannot possibly be another person. "if I was you" is incorrect.
That is clear-cut. Now what about something not quite so obvious. "If I were smart" or "if I was smart". If you say "were", you are indicating you are actually stupid. If you say "was", you leave the door open.
In the logic problem, if you said "if I was to ask you...", it wouldn't work. You have to say "if I WERE to ask".
Could care less - couldn't care less? I don't know which is correct and I couldn't care less. (or maybe I could - I dunno).
The couldn't care less thing is a genuine cultural difference. I'd never heard "I could care less" until I came to MB.
Sometimes the language barrier has caused real problems for me on MB. Seriously. I translate so often into American English and have been misunderstood many times for my usage of Kiwi/English English. Our American lecturer told me that "I reckon" is never used in America. It means "this is my opinion" not "I have added this up."
well IRREGARDLESS of whether it is could or couldn't. The only real confusion I have is when you "table" a discussion. I lived in the UK a while and this one definitely has the opposite meaning in the two countries.
I don't know why they made me take freshman English four times. I think they wanted me to learn it really well so I could come back and teach it. That's my theory anyway. My professor was quite insistent on not passing me.
Anyway, I have to go. DS is away for the weekend and we can run around naked if we really want to. Which, considering it's about 3degrees celcius here right now, I don't think we want to.
Todd, Bill Bryson's "Mother Tongue" covers all that.
I'll look it out tomorrow because he says you can tell where you're from in the US by the way you say definite words and the words you use to describe everyday objects. It's a very cool book. He was born in Des Moines, Iowa (he says someone had to be) and lived in England for about 20 years before moving back to the States with his English wife and English kids.
Even talking with all of you I've noticed the differences. My friend LINY from Long Island New York speaks quite differently from my friend Faithful Follower from California.
I find all this very, very interesting. Obviously LOL.
Actually it is y'all and y'all is being widely accepted and utilized around the world. The reason is because it fulfills a need. In English, there is no third person plural for you. Enter y'all. Gots to love the practical inventiveness of Southerners.
Recently I read posts from folks in the UK and Belguim who used y'all. Makes me proud.
Here in Coca Cola land, everything is a Coke. You order a Coke and then the server asks: what kind: and you say Coke, or Sprite, or what have you.
No you have to ask for a Sprite here also. The differentiating part is that here we don't say soda, pop, tonic and all that jazz. It is a Coke. Of course, it was invented here so we have had a head start.
Y'all will grow into unviersal acceptance. Just a matter of time.
And, an aside, soccer will beome known as soccer throughut the world. Just a matter of time.
Too funny, I have lived almost all of these geoslang places...grew up where "youse" was common...moved to Boston and it was like a foreign lingo for the first 6 months due to the rapid speech and adding "er" to all words ending in vowels like a soda was a soder and dropping er on words that already contained them mother...motha
I next ventured south where I was scorned for being a Yankee and to survive in my professeion had to pick up the lingo and use it or loose clients...so I resorted to y'all and "cut off the lights" and "sug" etc
We moved when DD1 entered kindergarten...I wanted to be in a location where phonics made sense when kids are learning to read/write...miss the friendliness and food of the south so instead of having heart disease from great southern cooking we'll get heart disease from stress and the faster pace dog eat dog lifestyle:) What a relief!
Never been on the west coast to try out that culture but I'm sure they would evict me
I guess NZ and U.S. have some common slang we didn't know about <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Howdy, B-day today and the only event was me insisting H leave...he's gone and hopefully will decide what it is he wants. I know he wants cake and ice cream but that's not on the menu...he said he didn't want to leave but wasn't saying any of the right stuff to make me want him to stay; he says he will only need a few days to figure it out...
I thought I would feel some relief but since there is no real agreed upon plan it is causing me anxiety and dread!
I guess I should try figuring out Todd's alphabet game puzzle...that'll keep me busy for at least a few days:)
You should see how much "trouble" my daughter is having with the mid-west "pop". She grew up on the "left coast" (CA), here it is a "soft drink" or a "cola" or a "coke", but never a "pop" which seems to be prevalent in the mid west. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Having lived all over the US I can assure you, that you can indeed tell where people come from and if one really pays attention you can tell what part of certain states.
But, I must tell you an interesting story. Took the family to Europe many years ago when the kids were relatively small. Spent a week in Germany and a week in England. While they enjoy both countries alot, there were actually more comfortable in Germany than England, and we were staying in places where English was not really used.
I asked them why? They said in Germany when they saw a road sign they knew how to pronounce it. In England they did not have a clue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Further, they had a terrible time with the terminology of every day discourse.
Oddly, they did NOT have that problem in NZ nor Austrailia. Odd isn't it.
I have been wondering why I have not heard "Jumper", "panel beater", "juderbar (sp)" from you? Are you cleaning it up so that us Yanks can understand you?
2much, I'm sorry about your sitch and Happy Birthday from me anyway. Try to relax. I'm having (work related) panic attacks at the moment as well and they suck.
I'm finding that coming here and joking around with you guys is really helping.
JL, you KNOW I translate into American English so I can be understood. LOL.
Yes, I say "jumper" for "sweater" but "judder bar" is only used in rural (or backward LOL) areas. We call them speed humps or speed bumps here in the city. And what's so funny about "panelbeater" LOL? I remember sitting on a bus in Australia with a bunch of tourists and when they saw "Smash Repairs" written on a car repair business they all pointed and laughed. Couldn't see the joke myself. LOL.
NZ English has far more in common with American English than it does with English English. Sheesh, sometimes even I don't understand Bob Pure. j/k, I'm multilingual LOL.
We're just going out now but I WILL find the Bill Bryson book. It's really, really interesting.
BTW DD told me recently they sat down (which as you know you NEVER do in Italy) in a cafe in Florence and had two cokes and a couple of sandwiches. The two cokes cost them 7euros each. That's NZ$28.00.
He thinks it is okay if he has an EA with Robby, but I am supposed to sit at home like nothing happened.
And for those who wonder about Head Lice's personality: trust me, he has no personality. He is somewhat intelligent, but in the personality department, he is devoid.
KiwiJ., smirking while typing the period! Thanks for the greeting...I'm trying to relax. I am enjoying the joking diversion as well...occassional flashbacks to reality but at least I can count on yins (another slang instead of youse) to make laugh.
I had to smile when you referred to your work r/t panic attacks...I had a long stretch of that...more like the impending doom, lurking black cloud that never went away until you hit it directly head on...then you had to deal with the hail, rain, sometimes even flooding!
Total mind game that your work buddy pulled on you about "we have to talk" and then letting you brew all w/e. I would act as if I had no care in the world when I arrive at work on Mon if I were you. Sounds like they know which buttons to push...don't let it get to you.
Todd gave you some excellent advice as well...who'da thought that the mad scientist was also an ambassador!!!! No wonder he won the Nobel prize. To date my greatest achievement has been...hhhhmmmmm that is difficult...I have to say on a serious note that I feel like my greatest achievements occurred while I worked hospice. I really bonded with most of the pt/family's and if were receptive to the philosophy I helped them maximize the quality of their last months, weeks, days etc.
I have some great invention ideas that I haven't had the time/$ to patent, not to mention as a gov worker the gov would own them so it'll have to wait until a later date! I wonder Todd since you have the paperclip 747 how'd the patent work out for you on that??? Perhaps you have some advice for me?
I truly invented the McDonald's shaker salad well before it was available...came up with it while on the road alot trying to be healty...too bad they stole it from me!
So what kind of unique NZ culture do you want to share info on???? Do you have a tribal tattoo??? I have 7 myself:) I got my first shortly after leaving the convent and have been adding to them since...
Hope I've lifted your spirits <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Happy Bday. All seriousness aside, you really need a plan. Even a mini-plan will do.
It always confuses me that you people are all on the wrong weekend. (our weekend is Thursday and Friday in case you forgot). But if I did my math right, KiwiJ is only about half a day away from the boss talk. Terrible way to spend a weekend. The boss talk is kind of like an affair to the BS. What you imagine is always far worse than the reality.
I do agree about English road signs BTW. I lived in London for about a year and, to this day, I have never been able to find Lester Square. Not even on the map. But I did have tickets to go see a show there. I also once got ripped off for a one night hotel charge to my American Express card. I made a reservation at the Gloster Hotel. Never could find it either but still got charged the one night stay for not cancelling the reservation. I have always felt that there has been a battle between the English and the French to see who could NOT pronounce the most letters in their words.
But don't get me started on the French. I want to smatter every one of them.
I agree about the plan...H texting mult times...doesn't get it. Don't know what he can figure out in days that he hasn't been able to face up to in person but I want him to have a realization of what life may be like away from his comfort items and security. I may have been too reactive instead of calm and objective but it doesn't really matter b/c the reality is that H's behavior has to change b/c he wants to change...he knows exactly what he needs to do...he has admitted as much. He knows how to treat OPs and has done things for them that he has never done for me...I am tired of being an afterthought and don't want my children to be in the same boat where he chooses others over them.
I have to determine the return boundaries. Don't really even want to think about it though...feel like he'll continue to do his thing regardless...
Isn't it interesting how different they turn out...mine one is my clone, one H clone and one a mix of all our best and worst characters...she is such a handful!
I have given much thought re: is it better for M to continue regardless of all problems for their sake since all the literature and research lead to staying together except in instances of domestic violence or truly destructive relationships...I do see everything affecting them now and don't want them to end up all scarred by it. On the flip side, when we told them about the potential break up a week or so ago they of course were devastated and it broke my heart. Today, I tell them H will be gone a few days b/c I asked him to leave for a while...no major issues or response from them...
I am home all the time now but will be back to hectic schedule in another year and likely will deploy...I have to keep all this in mind with future plans. I just don't think I could live in the same house knowing what I know and the fact that things haven't changed. Of course, I am being told I expect too much too soon and nothing is good enough. I think that is fog script????
Maybe I am being selfish and am not willing to self-sacrifice, I used to think I could hang in longer but almost seems like I'm looking for reasons to bring this misery to an end.
What year for Nobel??? Chemistry or Physics? Did you stay in Beantown post MIT??? If so where? I lived in Wenham and Lynn...miss the Rockport beaches but aside from that and the rich cultural options could live without ever going back!
Do you and your DS2 butt heads??? I'm sure if he is like you, you probably argue about formula and theory...
I accept the premise that precipitation units under the influence of gravitation attraction and flowers have achieved homeostasis.
I accept the hypothesis that in the most obscure twilight where absolutely no reflectance is radiated to be perceived by the human eye a wick encased in high molecular weight hydrocarbons is combusting and radiating photons within the range of visual wavelengths.
So why is Frank Sinatra so famous and I am not?
I also believe there is no one path to marital recovery. I used to believe it was a tight rope. But I have found that the path is wide. It is truly hard to fall off even if you stumble. If you keep going, you will reach your goal - even blindfolded.
Go ahead with your invention ideas. Since it is a given that the government is "patently" stupid, you should be able to collect your royalties with no problems.
Immediately upon arriving in the UK, I stayed in a hotel in Windsor for several weeks until I found a house. I immediately opened up a bank account at Barclays near the hotel. After a few weeks I found a house in Cobham in Surrey. I went into Barclays in Cobham to withdraw some money and found that I couldn't since my money was in Windsor. As an American this was a totally foreign concept to me. Long story somewhat shorter, I became convinced that I needed to move my account from Barclays Windsor to Barclays Cobham. I asked how long that would take. The reply was they didn't know because the money first had to be sent to Houston. I was outraged. I asked why the money had to be sent all the way to the United States. We had quite a few minutes of confusion. Finally I came to understand that they were saying "Euston" and not "Hooston". That was the start of many problems in the UK. Even so, it still took five days to "move" the money.
I've never been there so I shouldn't say what I was about to say.
It would have been based purely on anecdotal evidence LOL.
Tomorrow is Monday, the meeting with my boss isn't till Tuesday but I will call her tomorrow and tell her I had an anxious weekend and would appreciate some insight into what she wishes to discuss with me. I should have e-mailed her as soon as I got her e-mail but I was a bit dumbstruck.
LOL, it is all y'all, you're right, BigK. I'm not likely to need to use the plural of y'all in the near future but now I will know how to use it correctly.
The silly thing about the discussion with the boss is that I don't think my performance will be called into question. I think she is probably going to tell me what is really going on behind my back with my subordinate. Who knows? Whichever it is, I'm not looking forward to it.
Ahhhhh, had to get a few hours shut eye! I see you and Todd are still at it...talking behind my back while I'm gone...typical
Todd would have been proud; DS got a science kit and we created superballs from polymer using test tube kits not to mention he became a Crystalologist! The kids were all fascinated at the transformations. There was one test tube that I did not participate in the creation (red flag), apparently it was some kind of concoction of make your own bubbles...ok they are running around the house blowing these bubbles that you can touch and hold...of course I'm preoccuppied, smile...nod and keep doing work...my DD2 comes in laughing hysterially with what appears to be a clear plastic bag attached to her forehead...that would be a huge polymer bubble...now my house has crusty, glue-like remnants from all the bubbles falling everywhere and drying...my kids hair looks like a glue facory (yeah this is about 30 min after they have all taken showers) and they are belly laughing like it's the greatest thing in the world:) You can't help but join them and forget that your home is now a glazed donut of sorts!!!
As for Bobpure's thread...I have mixed feelings...sometimes I feel that I need to forgive myself other days I feel like I need to forgive H, other days I plot fictional revenge where H has to experience a fraction of the hurt he has put me through...then I wake up
Well since this is (or was) my thread, I can say what I want to and I think Mr. Pure's thread is the most irresponsible thing (and maybe the only irresponsible thing) I have ever seen him do but I am sincerely disappointed. It just pissed me off.
I will add that, if it had been posted in the "recovery" forum, it would not have pissed me off. The fact that it is in this forum I have a specific problem with.
I have been experiencing some strange emotions over the past few days. I remember I started with blind rage on Wednesday and went to tranquility on Thursday to an absolute peace from Friday till today. This "indefinite" separation is the best thing that has happened in a long time. I honestly don't care whether WW comes back or not. I hope she does. I still love her. It is not that I don't want her to come back. It is hard to describe. I just feel so free. Not free of WW but free from the A. Even if she does come back, I suspect I might still feel it. Just knowing that I have other options – that life will go on (ir)regardless. I feel like maybe I am proving something to myself. I have fought for a year to keep her from leaving – to keep her in the marriage. Now I feel like I am truly letting go. Whatever happens – happens.
I remember my first chemistry set. That was back in the days when they put cool chemicals in them. Now they don't let you make gunpowder any more, for example. You could even make nitro glycerine if you set up the reflux reaction properly. Don't ask me how I know that BTW. It's still a sore subject. My mom loved that cat. Now all you can make are glorified surfactants. Bummer.
"I believe sovereign nations have the right to defend their people from terrorist attack, and to take the necessary action to prevent those attacks," Bush said...
Why is it that the US gets to decide who is sovereign and who is not? And I am not talking about Lebanon - even though they are being invaded.
Use all the rhetoric you want. Sugar coat as much as you like. You put icing on BS - it is still BS.
I can relate to the emotional seismograph indicating amplitueds ranging from Mercalli intensity of I-XII with no rhyme or reason to the drastic and frequent fluctuations...how's that for the science boys???
Seriously, one day I'll be peaceful and accepting and think that I could continue on indefinitely in that capacity and then BOOM, something triggers this eruption of anger from no where...it's like a mysterious and deadly outbreak, it comes out of the blue with full blown deadly symptoms and I think I can't last a minute more...I must exit this place/time and move on to a new episode of It's your Life.
I would think that I am totally and completely psychotic but then I realize it's not me, if it weren't for the constant episodic infidel reminders then I wouldn't have these Toret-like episodes. I didn't know I could possess such high intensity anger and lots of it. That is what precipitated this last altercation where I insisted H leave.
If everything stopped, slate wiped clean, WS 180 and I could trust efforts and behavior then and only then could I begin to heal. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way and H with so much garbage of his own to deal with that he has repressed for years I can't see any clean cut happy endings. Oh, plus the fact that unless he goes into solitary he will continue to seek and find OP to meet the needs he won't let me meet until he gets some IC...which BTW he refuses to do.
Hmm...trust...I used to think I knew what that was. It does not help that, during the affair, the few times I asked WW if she was having an A, she attacked me verbally and said "What? Don't you trust me?". She used that trust against me as a weapon to protect her affair. She made me feel guilty and ashamed for not being a good enough person to trust my own wife.
Oh well, that was another life. Now it is like we are living together as long as it works out for the both of us. I have not gotten to the point where I feel like my marriage vows mean anything - at least to WW. To me they mean that I still have to love her and honor her and give her the opportunity. I still love my WW but I no longer love my marriage to my WW. Does that make sense?
YES! My H did same re: making me feel like I was the criminal for spying, however I bent over backwards creating opportunities for him to tell the truth about incidents that I was aware of that he had no idea I knew about...each time he denied or lied. It makes me sick to think of everything that I don't know about...the info I do get I feel is grossly minimized with the bulk being ommitted to throw me a few bones just to shut me up...I can only assume the worst in all scenarios until proven otherwise...H not interested in proving anything at this point
I detest my M, I feel like the past 11 years had been a big dirty lie and that I am an idiot for putting so much time, effort and heart into it. That stupid saying, "It is better to have loved and have lost than to never love at all..." Obviously they weren't a lucky member of the BS club. Wow you sure hit a note...now my eyes are leaking and I'm all fired up...thanks there P...I should have took the Bush bait, I'd have fared better:)
Ya think maybe I have alot of bottled up bitterness, resentment and anger???? I need to decompress and visit later...
I had a great post prior to my angry outburst and it disappeared...recap:
gunpowder and NTG hysteriacal, tears of laughter
can't engage in the bushwhackcing
then I went off on a rambling about WS's but at the time I have no recollection...mustn't have been important
back to the M thing...my H wants what you said...for us to live together for kids sake regardless of our M...says if it gets to planD that at least we'd be friends and have all our business wrapped up and taken care of...if live separately it will cause turmoil and financial strain
shouldn't a decsion to stay or go be based on the M and the desire to actually be and act as a spouse instead of a roomate of convenience? I would rather struggle and know that at least I'm not being bled than to live in an environment where I don't condone the behavior esp with kids witness to our R. I am not one of these people who can put on a big front for the kids and act like everything is all June Cleaver-like...is that a character flaw?????
No, you misunderstand me. I am not suggesting putting on an act for the kids. I would rather be divorced. It is just that right now I guess I am struggling more with what marriage really means than with the A. I think one is the fallout from the other but it has become an issue all its own. Maybe I could love my M again in the future. If I did not believe that were possible, I would D. I am simply not worrying about it at the moment because I can do nothing about it. I have to accept that the relationship is very delicate. Whatever happens is going to happen. I am still trying to do me best to ensure the best possible result for all of us.
Your WH lied to you about his feelings and thoughts during the A. He can just as easily be lying to you now when he says he isn't really interested in the M. Don't ever believe a (non-former) wayward. They are intrinsically evil, they spit brimstone and do nothing but lie. They probably harm kittens as well if given the opportunity. You are focusing on the wrong thing. You want a 180. How do you know you are not getting one. If your WH said everything you wanted to hear, how would you know it was the truth?
Get your little revenge separation out of your system. Take your time. Decide what you really want. There is always hope. How long has your WH been in NC? When was Dday? I ask this because you remind me of me not too long ago.
i wasn't referring to you putting on an act, I was talking about me cuz that is what i'd have to do if we remained together and he kept up his OP stuff.
i see what you mean about exploring the meaning of marriage...I repeated my vows to H yesterday and let him know that they still had the same meaning to me as the day that we married...I am not sure if I did the "right" thing by making him leave since it could all backfire at me but I was at a personal impass
i am not dealing with a one time episode here so i'm sure it's a bit different...first time I knew about was when I was preg with DD1... 5 definite EA since then one that lasted 4 years and still with contact and suspect some PA in all but of course denied...as was the case with the first until proven otherwise which of course I did
now, with all that out there I can't really play by the same rules...now you may see why Bobpure's thread could apply here?
No I can't see how that thread applies. His thread has no relevance to anything. It is pure pathetic self-indulgence. I am sorry. I am holding back. Should I be more explicit?
Someone said it is not how you react but how you recover that defines who you are. I am not sure I buy into that completely but there is some truth to it. Did you make a mistake kicking WH out? No. Would it have been better to let him stay? No. What is done is done. Where do you want to go from here? Don't second guess yourself.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with it regarding B0BPure's thread. I don't think you can relate to BP's to it because you aren't there yet. Being a few years into recovery, I can relate. I am still glad I fought for the marriage and succeeded. But should my H have another A at some future point...I would probably feel a complete fool.
My opinion is that his thread belongs in Recovery exactly for the reason you mentioned. This forum does have recovered marriages but it is also full of people still trying to decide what they really want to do. To hear someone with a supposedly successful recovery make this kind of statement in this emotional rollercoaster of a forum is, IMO, not well thought out.
I have no opinion as to his actual position because, as you correctly point out. I am not there yet. I just think it is self-indulgence to put it here. Again, JMO.
To me is is like one of those posts about Superman vs. Jesus Christ and then he sits back and claims all innonence saying he never thought it could possibly offend anyone.
You're a strong and decent man and I respect what actions you've taken thus far.
AFter reading about the indefinite period of separation, it makes me think if she is possibly pushing your buttons to make you be the one to file...after all if they can get the blood off their hands in any way possible, or blame us, the BS for their affairs or actions, then they will do it. Ws are notorious for this. My xh would push and push and push me and still didn't file b/c he didn't want to say HE DID IT.
get it? it is a WS passive aggressive way of eating more cake. If they disengage enough from the M, if they are destructive enough to us, and WE take action and file against them, then they somehow FEEL THEIR GUILT RELIEVED...and we the BS are once again in their fogged out eyes the bad guys.
To me is is like one of those lemonman posts about Superman vs. Jesus Christ and then he sits back and claims all innonence saying he never thought it could possibly offend anyone.
I don't post much anyway. You can't scare me away...you are free to put me on ignore.
I enjoy reading your thread(s) and like your sense of humor. I am also interested to see how your separation works out. We were separated a couple of times for 4 mos each. It took me a while to get a back bone. I wasted lots of time being either ranting or being pathetic. But even with all that, I think that most people give up on their marriages way too soon in these situation. To each his own.
I also enjoy some of the discussions you engage in with your friends here.
You may be right that BP's thread is better suited to Recovery.
Maybe it had to do with raising 3 kids together. We will be married 30 yrs tomorrow. Maybe I was weak and didn't want to start all over again. Maybe I didn't want to be the one dumped. Or, maybe I was very strong to withstand the repeated infidelity. I just lived it, and learned from all of it. Oh well, it was what it was...is what it is.
I am glad that you have no regrets, Todd. We all have responsibility for your own choices for our own reasons.
Actually you are quite wrong. You just make lots of controversial posts. That sets you apart just a bit.
Besides, how could you have read that? You are supposed to be ignoring me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
After all, it made it past the Justuss edit. I think that indicates that she is in tacit agreement. Don't you think? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks. I have no way of knowing for sure. You may be right. I will say that, if it is her intention, it would surprise me if it were a highly developed plan on her part. It might be more of a feeling or motivation. Just as WW had no plans during her A, I don't think she has many now. JMO. Everything will hinge on what happens while she is in Mexico. This will either make us or break us. I feel like I am just throwing the dice. I am just totally at peace about it.
---------
I see that Trix posted again and I have not read it but, before I do, I want to apologize to you Trix. I am sorry for what I said. I just hit a real trigger yesterday with that thread. I won't go into that more. Anyway I am sorry.
Justuss,
Once again thanks for your kind work. I am sorry I am such a bother to you.
I e-mailed my manager and told her I had worried all weekend and would appreciate an indication of what our discussion was to be about. It is SO against HR practice to surprise an employee with anything at a discussion and I think that p'd me off as well.
Anyway, I got a waffly e-mail back about wanting me to be able to enjoy my position for which I was a very good fit (yay) but there were also a couple of negative things to discuss.
The tone seemed to suggest they were worried I was getting overwhelmed by events and was not performing as well as I could. Well, duh!!!!
Of course, I am assuming that Head Lice has not yet left for DW. Maybe he is helping poor Lebanon...
Anyway, how are you doing Jen?
I ain't doing so good. Is ain't a word in NZ? It is not supposed to be here. English teachers really hate that word.
Anyway, I belong to another infidelity online community and have been spending way too much time in Just Found Out. The hurt is palpable and contagious unfortunately. I will be grateful for the day when triggers are no longer triggers. Because my STBXW's A went on for so long, there are many triggers including turtles of all things. How does one go through life and never look at a turtle again?
I think that is all of the regulars. Apparently if you write lemonman's name in a post in this thread, he will appear. How do you search for your name in a post? Or was it pure luck?
We all need to clean the language up here a little. Justuss watches me like a hawk. (with good reason I might add)
Just got WW back from oral surgery. She had 4 wisdom teeth removed. In Mexico, the tradition is to place your baby teeth in a shoe under the bed and, in the night, the little mouse comes in and collects the teeth and leaves money. For DDs, the going rate is 30 rials per tooth. WW recovered her four wisdom teeth and will place them in a shoe under the bed tonight but she demanded a raise.
KiwiJ,
Good luck to you. It is a very demeaning/degrading thing the talk you are going to have. My advice is don't get defensive. Bite your tonguw if you have to but open your ears and listen. Don't speak too soon. After your boss is finished, carefully look for positive ways to explore and explain. Just don't get defensive and get your back up. Don't leave the meeting in anger.
I don't want a refund on the teeth but I would at least like a rebate on the package they came in.
KiwiJ,
I wanted to add - don't go into the meeting thinking you are going to change your boss's mind on whatever is bugging her. Her mind is made up more or less. You can't reverse her opinion. But you can bend it. Let her have her say and then make your points. Think of it like POJA. Just remember - the worst thing you can tell a boss is that you think they are wrong. It is an ego thing.
I thought my "1em0nman" analogy was pretty good. Let him search for THAT one.
And maybe 2much has had too much. Did you ever think of that? Just when I think I have it bad, I realize there are people who have it far worse. I hope 2much is okay.
I just lived it, and learned from all of it. Oh well, it was what it was...is what it is
Trix,
I am not much of one for tears but that did it. Oh and happy anniversary. What do you get for 30 years? Isn't that some kind of metal or gem? Oh, my Google search says it is pearls.
2much is never around this late. The only ones around this late are those in far away time zones, those on the bottom of the Earth and folks who are in US who cannot sleep.
BTW, tomorrow is my second week of treatments. After about two weeks, I am told, I will begin to loose things. Not like my pencil or wallet, but you know, brain cells. Like I have any to spare. I will do my best to stay away but if I drop in and make comments that betray my condition, please politely and gently show me the door.
I don't guess I told you about the email exchange with STBXW did I?
You told me about her concern over the medical insurance premiums due to your medical expenses and that she wanted to be sure you kept your life insurance up-to-date. In a nutshell, it seems like she wants you to go quickly, quietly and cheaply.
If there was another, more recent, exchange, you have not mentioned it.
One good thing about losing brain cells - you never miss em.
So if we go by who is online about this time and correlate that to infidelity, it seems that most infidelity occurs in Asia and Australia and the USA and infidelity is rare in Europe and the Middle East. That is, of course, a generalization not accounting for insomniacs.
Well this should keep you busy and may help ToddAC hold back a few brain cells.
If a train leaves Denver, Colorado at 12:00 Noon and heads East at 88 mph and another train leaves Newark, New Jersey at 3:30 PM that same afternoon heading west at 112 mph, at what time will the trains collide?
Bonus 1: At what time will it first appear on CNN?
Bonus 2: How many days will it take CNN to realize it is no longer a "top news story"?
Correct, I wake early and am on after 0400 and sometimes up as late as 0100 but generally I try to catch some zzzzzzzzzzzzz from 12-0400 daily!
Glad you all noted my absence, makes me feel good...I guess I haven't had 2much yet...return of the H last pm, thus my board absence.
Todd, why would you stay away from us during your most vulnerable time when you're loosing things????? Seriously, don't you think it will be a good diversion and some humor therapy is the best thing for anything...we won't be too nice if that is what you're fearful of...I don't think any of us would discriminate against a particular condition <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I for one wouldn't harrass you any more or less but at least we could support you thru...I see you are juggling multiple adventures at once...I think that regardless (irr) of what challenge, adventure, lunacy life deals us we can apply some basic principles and applications. Should I open up that discussion or is it too serious???
Humor is wonderful...many of us women can probably attest to the incident of actually laughing until...no we don't pee in the shower (that would be better actually) we end up peeing on ourselves in laughter (sometime coughing fits) beiginning in pregnancy which escalates with each pregnancy and haunts some throughout life...fortunately I've only had the preg episodes!!!
Yep, TMI but again if I'm really laughing hard and truly happy I snort!!! How sexy is that! A snorting woman, who could resist that...I once threw my head back in laughter so hard I almost knocked myself out (hit a wall that I didn't realize was that close). I can see the visual now y'all probably picture me as the female Napoleon Dynamite!!!
Ok, kids are yelling for me to get off laptop as I have them here eating breakfast at this cool little wireless cafe.
Snorting is definitely NOT sexy. I have a nieve who does that. I can make her do it just by saying that I am going to make her do it. She always laughs (and snorts).
Ok, I'm sure I did misunderstand...maybe I should have a board name of "misunderstood"...which BTW is or at least once upon a time I thought was a great movie but it's been decades since I've seen it
Don't worry, I don't laugh enough to snort alot!!! I guess it could be worse...there are other not so sexy symptoms associated with intense laughter that I thankfully haven't experienced <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Your whole lice/louse name...I read why but must say now that I have engaged in a number of conversations say there are truly some similarities...persistant, attention grabbers, pesky, difficult to eliminate, overlooked initially but make themselves known and finally not my personal opinion but note that others on the board my feel differently ...annoying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Yep, you can come back with 2much drama, 2much babbling, 2much psychosis, 2muchc of 2much...bring it on!
As for Todd...were you serious, sarcastic, what???? about staying away during tx? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
KiwiJ., How goes the job today? Let us know if you need some anger management classes or if you charmed them??
Trix, Tell me about how you managed to remain M with 3 kids and WS...I'm sure you have some expertise to offer for me in same boat of sorts
I didn't mean to imply that I would stay away. My post was a cry for help from head lice/louse(s) that if I started spewing nonsense (okay, more than normal nonsense) that he would show me the door. IOW, ban me from this thread. I'm sure it can be done. Or at least everyone put me of their ignore list. I really don't mind making a fool of myself; I just would hate for there to be witnesses.
Just got in from today's workover and I must say that the person who:
1. invented the MRI "chamber"; and 2. the protocol for treatments
should be taken out back and a wooden stake driven through his or her heart. Assuming they have a heart. My bet is they have a milk jug full of icy cold water where the heart should be. But as I seem to say so much, that is simply my personal opinion.
And while I am at it, the guy who invented back seats should be dragged out back and shot also. I went with my youngest son and his wife to see the house they are building. I was in the back seat. The back seat of his automobile is designed for children and "little people". And then there is the matter of my big feet, size 15. I had to use the jaws of life to extricate my feet which were stuck under the seat in front of me. But, if we had an accident, there would have been deployed a side safety curtain airbag thingy. But I was wedged in so tight, I figure any crash that exerted less than 5G's on me would not cause me to budge one iota.
But anyway, fair warning: by this time on Thursday or Friday, I should be incoherent. Okay, more incoherent than normal. I try to diffuse the jokes as I go. I actually feel a little goofy right now. Of course, I got zero sleep last night so that may have something to do with it.
You are even better without sleep...I prefer goofy over physics, sorry!
I agree with the backseat...makes you nauseated even without MRI torture...did you know that you can practice for your MRI by sticking your head in the oven (turned off of course) and then asking your children, friends, neighbors, enemies, whomever to bang pots and pans on top as the timer is on counting down the eternal minutes as they pass...being everso careful to remain still...you can gradually work yourself up to the 45 minute point
Did your MRI have music wired in? Have you tried yoga or meditation? Just curious...very therapeutic
R U still working during all this?
You should probably get some sleep or I should probably start sleeping more on your behalf...I know, I'm too kind!
Keep us posted on your venture...pardon the lack of understanding, of course your twin P knew exactly what you were talking about...if you were women you'd be on the same cycle I'm sure
I'll be thinking about you during your treatments, Todd. But if you start spewing nonsense, I probably won't notice, because I don't understand half of the stuff that is said here.
I'm still working on the 2 roads on the island with liars.
And, no the oven trick does not do justice. For one, an oven is much too big. More like one of those old galvanized gargabe cans while teen hooligans beat on the sides with hammers.
Today is Monday right? I hope it is not Tuesday because I know I have something to do on Tuesday, although at the moment I cannot remember what.
Believer, I have to say, I'm right there with you in the Toddfog...I need an interpreter for most of the banter...brother P seems to be able to follow quite well however...are we missing something or is it just brain cells (too funny I originally typed Brian cells!!!!)
Too bad you didn't invent the MRE instead of the MRI. A lot more people benefit from the MRE.
2much,
ToddAC does have an electronic device to indicate his whereabouts. The Atlanta police fitted him with it. Nice ankle bracelet. Accesorizes almost anything. Somebody sent out a bunch of letters to all ToddAC's neighbors saying there was a sexual predator living there and, well, the police got the wrong man. Best laid plans and all...
The sexual predator turns out to be OM. And I will fit him with a bracelet and use a crimping tool to secure it. But not around his ankle...
Emails from STBXW continue. For someone who hates the computer, she has been busy. She is gushing about PR winning the Miss Universe title. BTW, she fainted because her gown was made of chains. Under the hot lights and all. I guess they don't grow polyester and nylon in PR. Good bananas and coffee however. And great mangoes.
And no 2much, I am not working while all this goes on. I haven't worked in a while. Fortunately, I won one of the big mega millions jackpots. No, wait a minute, was that a dream? Let me look at my bank statement...
The issue with my health care costs is that STBXW works for a hospital holding company. The hospital that I frequent is owned by the company. At any time, an employee can access her account and see all the charges that I have incurred. That embarasses her. Her father taught her shame and embarassment well. In the aggregate, of course, the more claims the higher the premiums become.
She said is in an email tonight that she tried her best to care for me but that she is not a nurse. Okay. And when I was in the hospital, she said she doesn't do well with hospitals. No, because visiting me kept her away from OM. Okay again. Nothing like being a burden to your former soulmate.
No wonder she cheated on you. How could you have been so inconsiderate? I hope you have learned something through all this. What nerve you had to go and get a brain tumor without any POJA.
Doesn't like hospitals but works for a hospital holding company. Hmmm...
I am not sure the ankle bracelet will be large enough for OM's neck but you do have a large Columbian clamp don't you? Don't those come in pairs?
Since you first mentioned this last week, I have been struggling. I just can't find a way to get from point A to point B. You have used the exact same words twice now and no matter how I play it, it doesn't ring true. You imply that WW is embarassed about you having large medical bills and that somehow makes her less worthy as a person. No. She, of all people, should understand the nature of medical expenses (in the USA) and the purpose of medical insurance.
If she has any shame about an employee reviewing your records, the shame is that they can see that she has abandoned you in your time of need. She can cover it up, sugar coat it, hide it everywhere else but the one place that hits home for her is in her company's database. That is an indelible paper trail to her shameless infidelity and a permanent testament to the type of person she is. That, IMHO, is why she is ashamed. She couldn't give a rat's eyelash that you are costing her fellow employees $3.17 more a month in medical premiums.
If she were that concerned for them, she could give each one a GWTW doll and call it even.
I didn't imply anthing. I merely characterized her email. Her dad taught his kids that you don't impose on others. Whenever we would go to buy a car, she would take the car salesman's side and tell me that I am being too hard on him. I had to negotiate against three people: salesman, sales manager and my wife.
I'll never forget my first trip to the ER. OM drove us although I did not realize his status as OM at the time. There I am in an ER treatment room, wires and tubes everywhere, head splitting open and numbness on my right side. Wife no where to be found. She was in lobby sitting with OM because she didn't want him "to be alone".
Sorry for the t/j. The treatments are kinda stressful and causing flashbacks.
And BTW, no it was not OM's neck either. I said I would use a crimping tool; I meant it literally.
I learned some of the tricks car salesmen use. First they want you to make an emotional attachment to the car. I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee years ago. I negotiated the price with the salesman, all the extras, etc. We get into the room to sign the contract and he tells me now that the car will cost an extra $2500 over and above the negotiated price because it had undercoating.
I was shocked. I said I didn't want to pay $2500 more so I wanted the undercoating removed or I didn't want the car. He and the sales manager scratched their heads for a few minutes and I got the undercoating for no additional charge. That had to be a first for them.
It is 4.34pm on Tuesday afternoon here in Kiwiland or The Land of the Long White Cloud as some call it, or Aoteoroa, it's Maori name.
I knew Todd wasn't going to crimp the OM's neck. (duh)
Well, the talk. It went better than I expected. Part of the problem is indeed my subordinate but a lot of the problem (as I suspected) is my management of my subordinate. ie lack of delegation and not taking proper supevisionery control.
I dropped the ball this week which is another thing that has been weighing heavily on me. We are holding an extremely important book launch next week and because of my taking everything on (semester also started last week) and delegating as I should have, I was very late getting the invitations out.
I know for a fact the event will be a success, but my Head of Department is not happy and has put down my failure to do what HE wanted first to the ongoing problems in the Department.
My manager did tell me that with more confidence and a bit of a tweak I was capable of doing any job that came up in the University (administratively that is).
So, some negatives, some positives, nothing I didn't already know and haven't already beaten myself up over.
Thanks BTW Pio, I read your advice to me this morning. It was all good.
My sister had a space between her colons for about 6 months. She hated it and eventually had it surgically reversed. I can't remember exactly why the doctors put the space there. Even after the reversal, it has not been entirely successful.
What is the medical name for the two colons? The ascending and the [censored]-ending?
Well if I beed you, I would feel humiliated after that comeback to KiwiJ. Even "I'm rubber and you're glue" would have been an improvement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I have two sis's. One five and the other seven years older than me.
Coincidentally, at the moment, my two DD's are 5 and 7 years old. How strange. How much longer can that last?
One other thing I was going to say about boss talks. They are never as bad as you think they are going to be. I didn't mention it before because you had to see that for yourself. The other thing is that any feedback is better than no feedback. You have feedback and now you are planning solutions. So even the negative is becoming a positive in your mind. There is a feeling of being a small child being scolded. That is always the worst part. I jsut always remember that my boss puts on his garter belt and clamps on his stockings one leg at a time - just like I do. Oops! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I meant pants - yeah that's right - pants.
I think my mom still reads. I don't know if she still reads this thread though. But she does read newspapers and things. I think she is still searching for traicionado.
When my children were 5 and 7 the thought of having an A was the most alien thing I could ever thought of.
I was a "mommy" through and through. Your DDs are SO young. Hey, wait till they're teens. THEN you know how your early parenting turns out.
Y'know none of this "work" stuff really matters. My H and my kids adore me. That's all I'll care about on my death bed.
The feedback was good. It was very positive. I started the meeting saying I'd had enough and was looking elsewhere. I finished on a positive and "ok, I'll do this". So, my manager isn't so bad at her own management skills.
Well this should keep you busy and may help ToddAC hold back a few brain cells.
If a train leaves Denver, Colorado at 12:00 Noon and heads East at 88 mph and another train leaves Newark, New Jersey at 3:30 PM that same afternoon heading west at 112 mph, at what time will the trains collide?
Bonus 1: At what time will it first appear on CNN?
Bonus 2: How many days will it take CNN to realize it is no longer a "top news story"?
Bonus 3: Who will CNN decide was to blame?
Our vacation starts July 31st at 1:35 AM from Bahrain. We arrive WDW on August 1st. WW goes to Mexico on August 12th. We are full speed ahead.
I don't know what time the trains will collide. Geez, I hated those questions at school. They were called "problems" and they were certainly problems for me.
It will appear on CNN almost immediately probably by AmCam.
It will disappear from CNN when there isn't mass carnage and hundreds killed or when a PR Miss Universe faints.
CNN will decide that the drunken train drivers or the "Government" is to blame and THERE WILL BE AN INVESTIGATION AND HEADS WILL ROLL.
Yep, DS is 28 and still lives at home. He's a musician and artist. DD is 25 and lives with her WONDERFUL boyfriend. She was in a relationship before that from when she was 15 with a guy who verbally and emotionally abused her. I think of her boyfriend as my son in law and know that when they get back from their trip they will very likely announce their engagement. They are both the marrying kind and VERY happy.
My DD majored in Classics at university, worked at the finance company I worked for as a holiday job and then started work there full time when she graduated. She doesn't want to go back even though they've kept her job open for the 8 months she'll be away. She wants to get married and have babies.
My DS also has a wonderful girlfriend but until he gets a "real" job, marriage is a bit far away for them.
Eating late at night WILL cause you to gain weight. You are meant to breakfast like a King, lunch like a "something I can't remember what" and have dinner like a pauper.
Schizophrenia is a mental illness, very misunderstood. It does NOT mean split personality. Sheesh, it's too late to be thinking about this stuff.
The first one is false. It proves the law that if you repeat something enough times, it will be believed. Weight gain and loss are a function of caloric intake versus calories expended over a period of time.
BTW, Global Warming is the same way. It has been repeated so many times that most believe it. Not that I am discussing politics. Just saying.
And you're correct on the second one. Most believe that schizophrenia means multiple personalities but not true. Journalists even play their part in perpetuating the myth.
How R U? Have you regained your superior intelligence and tucked away Ol goofy for a bit?
I like how you let BK talk bad to me while I'm out...who needs enemies with friends like you guys!
I actually had gone back to read your old threads to see what all the tx stuff was about but after some extended reading I had to quit...I guess I miss the whole insurance issue
P had it spot on with the bills being a shameful trail to her infidelity...makes anyone looking see her true colors at present
Isn't it insane how at people can be so caught up in whatever fantasy land they are in and make statements like your WW did about making sure OM wasn't alone...my H has done that multiple times and I just literally LOL and that bothers him b/c he doesn't know why I LOL
H made a statement about where he should take me for special occassion...I stated a name of a place that was on the most recent cc bill that I jacked from mail...H feigned ignorance and I began LOL and left room...of course that started an entire chain of events but it felt good to laugh at the time
I'm glad KiwiJ.'s boss talk went well! Look out Trump
How about ******'s Kitchen, have you watched any of the episodes? Must confess...love it and that nut Gordon Ramsey I guess that is a red flag on my choice of male behavior LOL
At least I'm learning something right? It's all good BK, I enjoy the harassment...apparently if I didn't I wouldn't be here or here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
i hate that cheesy smile on that goofy icon but wanted to convey the smile...I don't generally smile with teeth anyway...probably cause I'm missing the front ones
I think the WS has wore off on me...so far I've said that I have been in the convent, have 7 tribal tattoos, no front teeth...hhhhmmmm I also stated that honesty was my best characteristic
help, which village do I live in? What path do you take to get to 2 much village??? If you take the train you may derail and then T and P will argue over what time and who reported????
I think there was some wisea$$ chemical in my morning coffee or maybe since I've been up since 0400 and procrastinating on all of the pile of work next to me I've had a mind warp and am now...fill in the blank!
Have you regained your superior intelligence and tucked away Ol goofy for a bit?
Are you talking to me?
Are you talking to me?
Well, I have to go and lay down in a microwave for a while. They say about two percent of the errr.... rays miss their target. That means they hit my brain. I don't have much left to give. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. Now, do you see why I won the Nobel?
Get some sleep...I've found that Nyquil is a cure-all (equivalent to windex in Big Fat Greek Wedding)
Or you could rent my least favorite movie of all time My Dinner with Andre...that should put you right to sleep...if it works I'm sure you could purchase for change
I could ship you some of my wisea$$ coffee to give you a lift...LOL I am thinking of the coffee made by Millstone called "Foglifter"...too bad WS isn't a coffee drinker...that could be the secret remedy to reverse the WS condition...don't leak the secret
Regardless of the cause of the accident, the blame will ultimately go as the democrats will blame Bush for cutting funding to government safety programs and from the republicans to the democrats for cowtowing to the unions. Oh, and Al Qaeda will claim credit on several web sites.
Do you gain weight if you stay up late, eat and then don't go to bed? Just curious how your personal experiment is going.
I should mention though that the trains will never collide. Newark and Denver do not lie on the same latitude.
I am upset because I bought the pills to lose 25 lbs in 30 days from my Hotmail account and now find I could have waited until this week and lost 30 lbs in 30 days. I feel like I have been cheated. Again.
I have never watched Mission to Mars. I can't. Best sleep aid I have ever found.
I should mention that the trains never collide. Newark and Denver do not lie on the same latitude. Even so, Bush will claim that he had evidence that they were going to collide and he will invade Atlantic City.
Having a little repitition or editing problem today?
I'm on cup-a-joe #5 so I should be peaking in brain power at any moment, then it will be all down hill until my evening wine which somehow charges and calms the mind back into focus...
I am an activiist for the American Heart Association's philosophy of 1 glass per day for heart health of course!!! I should be the poster gal
I don't take trains anymore...Beantown trains were the last I've ventured and that was back in the early 90's
Some of us gain weight just looking at food...it is the caloric intake but it is dependent on your resting metabolic rate which I happen to hold the Guiness record for lowest rate for females...not a good thing...also the more you deprive your body of food for long stretches the more it doubts it will ever be fed again and then goes into fat saving mode...does the love bank work like that????
Thanks to the infamous infidelity diet I am finally back to my prepregnancy weight (youngest is 5!!!!), we really should have done this sooner and I could have been wearing all those clothes that I spent years trying to exercise to get back into them...who'd known
Well it's kinda an "east - west" thing. Hey, I didn't invent the compass. Wait - is that one of yours? In my high school math book, it was always Denver - Philadelphia. There was a reason for that.
OT: WW and I watched Miss Universe last night. I realize it really happened a few days ago but it took the photons this long to get through the Saudi censors.
I am curious about something. Isn't Miss Universe supposed to be about winners from countries of the world? I noticed that some poorer countries even had to double up and combine to gether just to send one girl. Trinidad and Tobago or Antigua and Barbuda,for example. Isn't Puerto Rico sort of part of the USA? I just don't think it is fair that the USA gets "extra chances". Where was Miss Guam? or Miss Marshall Islands? I don't think it was a very fair contest.
I'm still waiting for the explanation of the roads on the liar island.
Well just one example but it explains the idea. You point to one of the roads and let's say it really is the road to the city (you don't know it yet). The truth teller is obviously going to answer "yes" when you ask the question. Now for the liar.
If you were to ask him the simple question "does this road lead to the city?", being a liar, he obviously has to answer "no". But what you ask is "If I were to ask you if this road lead to the city, what would you say?". Since he truly would say "no", he has to lie and say "yes". Kind of like a double negative. The key is in the subjunctive conjugation of the verb "to be".
good morning, sipping my cup-a-joe thinking bout y'all
I was brewing my joe this AM, cleaning up the kitchen, had one sock on and one off (the sockmate was still resting in the bed)...H laughing and comments...but the thing I miss the most is my mind (referring to me in my one sock)
My DS does this all the time but we have always affectionatley referred to him as our "rainman"...my DD1 actually referred to him yesterday as rainman and his response was ok, lightening girl
Of mention, there could possibly be a 180 underway...I am waiting patiently and trying not to get hopes up
I never did a full 180 plan. I have fundamental problems with it. But I did use what I liked to call a "crazy ivan" and I think it always had positive effect. I'll have to search the post.
I was looking at another thread and it seems like something happened to make many people believe that you and curly17 are the same person. I wish I could have seen the deleted post but I got there too late. If you and curly17 are the same person, you have serious problems.
Personally I would be a white but not be a mature vintage, I would have no body but a pungent boquet and I would leave a bad taste in your mouth. I also would not age well and definitely not be worth collecting.
Interesting description...not sure I'd agree but of course you only show what you want on the board...
I also envision you as white, light, dry with a mystery combbo of oak and some crisp fruit that leaves you wondering ...you may be right about the pungent bouquet since you get quick attn
Todd I see as a mature zinfandel, medium bodied, not fruity or dry (unless he is immediately post-MRI which then definitely fruity) with a subtle bouquet but a distinctive final twist tastes of bramble and fresh or fermented red berries and finishes with a peppery kick
I'm working on KiwiJ.'s wine descript but must run
You're wrong pio, in that case anyone here that had used more than one member id can have multiple personalities? .. Its sad that even I can share here my deeply secrets, its not safe, because some people doesnt respect your desire about leave or not some information that I had wrote. For me was a release to show hole truth here, even jokes and judjments that some people wrote... I learned that even all Im a value person (sometimes I forgot this) and I need to take those opinions just as that as opinion of a person who doesnt know me and doesnt know hole case...(Im not writing this because of you pio, or TodAc)
It was amazing how a post that reveals intimace details can shake several people.. I know there are too much persons that had felt or even living similar encounters by internet but for they all those encounters was just,, for funn, and the are not upset because of this. For impact of this, the society plays an important rule... Im going to try to find the safe way for sharing with all of you my thoughts and my story, hole story, I need to be prepare for bad comments I guess and be stronger that now, to support it..
Once I read in a post "nadie conoce mejor el fondo de la olla que la cuchara"
Some people do use more than one ID although I don't think they keep it a secret. I don't know if you and curly17 are the same person or not. I don't really know that much about curly17 because I never followed those threads and whatever the big scandal was got deleted.
Anyway, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You are welcome to post here on this thread if that helps you maintain some anonymity. Just pleased on't ask me how gemela and I are doing. It is not a good time for that. We are packing all our bags now. I need to put gemela and I on the back burner for the next few days. I am a very sentimental person and if I stop to think about all this, I might not do so well.
So stick around and post here to the extent you feel comfortable with. If you can find a better way to share your story, let us know. Please post here in English. Your English is very good and ToddAC's Spanish is very bad.
I don't know many Mexican jokes (aside from the World Cup soccer team - ducking ducking). Sorry. I do remember one about a man and his girlfriend Ramona Cabrera.
All that this community expects from any member is complete honesty. We all put in a lot of time reading and posting and if you are dishonest, people get upset for wasting their time.
If you are honest, you will see that people will reach out and help you.
Perfect, I believe the bubbles but not the substance part!
I have to say this is me: MICHAEL MARTELLA WINE. Grapes from the Fiddletown viticultural region in Amador County have delivered in Martella's [90] 2004 Oleta Vineyard ($26) a rich, flavorful entry that extends right on through the center into a fairly long finish. Youthfully rough on the palate, this is a fairly hearty wine that will hold its own quite well...now I have to find it and try it...I usually stick to dry white oaky buttery rich wines or light dry white...occassionaly I'll live on the edge with a red but it can't be too dry or have too much of a bite...I do like a peppery undertone though!
Where are ToddAC, Believer and BK in all of this???
All this winopomorphism. I dunno. I think maybe you should all go drink some rather than pretend you were some. Oh, and I will drink some vicarously, of course.
Who is "regreted"? Is that the poster whose identity was in question? Whose name I won't mention so it can't be searched?
Maybe you should thank God for it. I hear some people do.
This is my last weekend day (Friday is the weekend). with gemela in Saudi. We had a very interesting talk yesterday. I told her that my biggest problem right now is not the A but that she has never been remorseful for the A. That makes her somebody I don't recognize and not someone I want to be with.
She told me she was sad about going and sad she is not coming back with us. I told her that neither one of us is really enjoying this. Something has to change. I have had a really bad year. She told me she does wonder if she can ever make me happy again. I told her that was not her job. She cannot make me happy - only I can do that. The reason I am not happy with her is that she doesn't love me and I know I can do better than that. I feel like she is cheating me out of happiness making me live with a woman who doesn't love me. I also told her my mistake all these years was trying to make her happy. Nobody can make another person happy. I understand that now. All I can do is try to be the best person and best husband I can be and if that is something she wants - great. If not, we go our separate ways. She is the only one who can make herself happy.
This was not an argument BTW. It is the most open and honest talk we have had in quite some time. I told her that since she is about to go off to Mexico, I wanted to make sure that she had no misunderstandings about our situation. I reminded her that I love her to my soul and that I do hope she finds the happiness she needs somehow.
I checked my records and found that 8/8/05 was my Dday.
And if I were wine, I would be Ripple. Cheap, no redeeming attributes and your last resort. I leave a nasty hangover and a really bad taste in your mouth and you always tell God you wish you had never met me and swear to avoid me forever.
No you wouldn't, be Ripple that is. Not that I know what Ripple is but it doesn't sound very appetising.
Pio, you never tell us what gemela's responses to you are. Does she take it in? Does she respond? I always responded during these "talks" mostly with tears and "no, no I don't want this."
This is not exactly fair. We finished playing golf and it is approximately an 9.37 minute ride in the golf cart to the house because it is downhill (it takes more or less 11.62 mnutes going to the course). When the left the parking lot, I told her I had something I wanted to tell her but did not want her to answer. That is when I told her that I FEEL she has shown no remorse and that really bother me. She has siad she committed an error but that is just a strange word to me. People are human and do make MISTAKES but they are sorry for them. If you are not sorry, it means you don't really think it is a mistake. I FEEL like she blames me for the affair instead of accepting the responsibility that she is the only one who made the decision to do it - and she did it so easily apparently. I said it may or may not be the truth but it is how I feel. She did not talk the entire time.
We got to the house and were sitting in the garage. She told me she still had feelings for me. I told her I still loved her with all my heart. We went inside. All day long she was working on her suitcase. (It takes her a week to pack and then she still forgets stuff - the "chings" on the way to the airport I have posted about before - I fully expect to get at least three "chings" this trip).
Her mood was pretty good all day but she was a little sad. We didn't talk a lot about the separation. She said she hoped that this would help us and that she could resolve things in her mind. I did tell her that this is not a separation so she can go have a fling with OM to see how it goes. If she even makes one phone call to OM, we are done forever. She may be able to hide it for a while but sooner or later I will find out. She said she has no intention of living on her own. She is going to live with SIL and MIL. I said whatever she does is her business and that I hope she can finally decide what it is she wants.
At the moment, I think maybe she is just afraid of change. This is a big step. I told her that I would miss her very much. She said I wouldn't. I told her that she has been my life for nine years. I will miss her each and every day. I love her. What I will not miss is the pain of the last year. Sometimes I think things are getting better and then we will have a lasagna incident or a doctor visit and I see that she has no thought for my feelings and I realize that I cannot trust her and she is not interested in developing that trust.
I think we both accept the reality of the separation and we both need it. I don't know why she needs it. It doesn't matter because there is nothing I can do about it. We are getting along very well. No fighting or arguing. We both want to get to Disneyworld - mainly because DDs are driving us both crazy with their anticipation. I weighed her suitcase yesterday and she is at 24.7 Kg so she is good to go.
On my IE home page, msn.com, there is a photograph with the headline "killer claims 48 other murders". The picture looks amazingly like the picture of 2long on the MB photo thread. Coincidence?
Coincidence, I don't think so. I'm sure 2long is a killer who would claim 48 other murders. Probably singing old song lyrics and saying "why can't we all just get ALONG." while he murders them.
My first reaction to 2longs picture was "all right! I bet this guy rides a Harley". But then I looked at his picture for a few seconds and I decided that he can't ride a Harley - I don't think he has the stomach for it.
Learn from my mistakes. Never ever tell your kids that you are going to WDW until you are on the way to the airport. Trust me on this, we learned the hard way. I have had to patch a lot of sheetrock where they took turns bouncing off the walls for three weeks.
When they are older, they will invite their friends to join them in going to WDW or the beach or the wherever. All the details will be worked out with the kids and their friend's parents. Everyone but you. Don't do it. Put this time behind you; you didn't know. But learn from your mistakes.
Quote
She has siad she committed an error but that is just a strange word to me. People are human and do make MISTAKES but they are sorry for them. If you are not sorry, it means you don't really think it is a mistake.
A MISTAKE is when you buy 2% milk when you meant to buy skim milk. Or you put on a blue and a black sock. Or you pump diesel fuel instead of gasoline into your car(yes, WW did this and I forgave her).
An affair is hardly a mistake.
Quote
I FEEL like she blames me for the affair instead of accepting the responsibility that she is the only one who made the decision to do it - and she did it so easily apparently.
It turns out that your WW is a triplet, not a twin. I am married to the lost triplet. Yes, it is my fault that she had the affair. She has repeated that many times. Of course, now she is in the mode of claiming she never had an affair.
Quote
She told me she still had feelings for me.
Pio, how exactly did she say this? If she said it in Spanich, kindly provide the English translation, you know for our friends in this thread who may not speak Spanish.
Yes I knew what that meant - hence full speed ahead with the separation. Just like sundog - it doesn't really make me sad.
Spanish is more complex than English in terms of love. We have I love and I'm in love. They have more options in Spanish. It was only after Dday that I learned there was a huge difference between "Te Amo" and "Te Quiero" - and we haven't even gotten to "estoy enamorado de ti" yet because there are more options in between. Being in love in Spanish is really complicated - almost stressful.
She said in English "I still have feelings for you". She does not speak English well enough for this to have any true significance for me. My spin is that she knows I don't really get much out of her saying "I love you". I feel like she was trying to explain to me that there is still something there. My interpretation of the event was the opposite of KiwiJ's take but that is only because I know gemela and how she speaks. My feeling is that when she says "feelings", she is trying to say "in love" feelings. But that is just my interpretation. I really don't know for sure and I haven't lost sleep over it either.
Weren't we talking about 2long going to the hotel without windows?
We can talk about good ol' 2long going to the hotel without windows if you like.
I'd rather talk about me and why I'm like sparkling wine.
Also, this has been bugging me for a while. How tall are you Pio? I have a picture in my mind (won't tell you until you tell me) and I'd love to know if I've got it right.
Hey, that's a trick. If I write that there then he'll read it and then he'll know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I'll tell the whole story later but I was trying to do WW a favor and accidentally found three love cards from OM hidden away. I have labeled them x, y and z in no particular order. I have uploaded them here
I have been bitten and, were it not for cat-like reflexes, I would not have testicles left. I was scanning the cards and WW tried to take them from me. She actually ate one of them.
Obviously it has not been my best day. I'll post tomorrow (if I am not killed while I sleep).
Don't think I've posted on your threads before. You are really, really bad....
That said, I still looked at the cards and photos. If immaturity and BAD taste are grounds for D, you are set up. She fell for THAT? The only thing more repulsive then the photos of him are the ridiculous cards.
I've been meaning to post to you, hoping to help. But I'm in a sour mood after finding out yesterday that one of my best friends is being cheated on by his wife. I'm not feeling too charitable towards WWs right now. So, I'd probably hurt more than help. Anyway... I've followed your thread and I'm sorry that you and your girls are having to deal with this.
Sorry GrownUp but you sound like my wife. I hear this all the time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'll tell the whole story tomorrow. These are like "momentos". I don't think they are recent cards. It is why she has kept them all this time that is the issue at the moment.
I know it doesn't make it any easier but I almost lost a finger wrestling a cell phone away from H trying to read TMs before he deleted them...he was trying to slam the door so I couldn't get it all the while I had 1 hand in a death grip on the phone...he won...I never saw the first TM so I know they must have been pretty bad...on the other hand I still have 10 fingers left
i can laugh about it b/c envisioning it is hysterical...i have yet to read the 1st TM and would probably throw up if I did anyway...
i love that she busted you scanning them and can so picture her eating one!!! Did you ask her how she enjoyed it? At least you were able to see a reaction of sorts.
You have to figure that she must be mortified on many counts...my guess is the public advertising sealed the reaction...you can start your own MB photo thread now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sleep with one eye open <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
It always gets worse before it gets better, isn't that what the saying is?
I will be thinking of you and praying that this is a turning point and that WS purges feelings, emotions and comes clean on the entire A for you now that things have hit DEFCON 4
Hang in there, you are a very tough RIPPLE remember?
I mean bad in a good way... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Hey... can you move that link to another site? You can go back to the main site and see personal stuff like your kids' photos. I'd PM if you about that if I could... just concerned about that.
I am not too worried about the main site. It has always been public domain. That is why I made it. Besides, have you seen the security here in Saudi Arabia?
I do have another site though and I will move it. I just didn't have time. I was protecting the family jewels with both hands.
I think the expression I like better is that it is always darkest before the dawn.
Haven't posted to you in a month of Sundays, but erg!
If I ever decide to take the dieting to the binging and purging level, I know just what to look at to get the ol gag reflex goin.
You got style Pio.
I'm not saying it lightly. You've distanced yourself from the miasma that ww created....and you might not feel like it sometimes, but you are doing it nobly.
Good luck on decompressing after that...and you mentioned sleep in the same sentence??? You must be superhuman...I would be guaranteed 72 hr insomnia and a 3 pound wt loss for sure!
Focus on girls to keep you sane for now...
R U expecting a rematch in the near future or are you getting the silent avoidance treatment?
I am worried about the bite wounds. She drew serious blood. Is WS disease contagious? Like "Day of the Dead"?
OMG! Where is the Pentrexyl?
No rematch. WW is pretty contrite at the moment. I promise a blow-by-blow in the AM. It is so amazing and funny how it all started. All quite an accident. It is almost 7:00PM now and I am tired from the wrestling. At one point I had to put WW in a chair, double her up and sit on her (and protect my privates!). We played Scrabble later. I even helped her with a triple word score. Go figure.
I don't think that Mexico has anything to do with her impending trip. That card was written a while ago (before Valentine's day by the look of it).
While I was scanning the cards, WW accused me of not being able to put the A behind me. If I could spell incredulous, that is how I felt. She leaves OM's love letters socked away and accuses me of not being able to put the A behind me. I tried to explain to her how stupid that sounded but I never could make my point. She feels the love letters are simply momentos. I said people who make mistakes and regret them, don't keep souvenirs. People who keep love letters are still in love.
I did tell her that it seemed to me that she was doing everything she could to force me to be the one to end the marriage so I would be the bad guy and not her. She said she knew she had to destroy those letters in case I might find them.
To her credit, she said she only looks at them not even once a week. She is trying (very trying).
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding Ding...exactly what I was thinking!
I've had the pleasure in the past and must say it's nearly impossible to remove the photo thread from your mind so be thankful for missing out on that joy!
I also thought what Todd stated about the schoolboy theme...it's a catch 22...i think it's the riduculousness of the lovesick fog talk that fuel these things...somehow they choose to believe it's even possible...boss, the plane, the plane
I did tell her that it seemed to me that she was doing everything she could to force me to be the one to end the marriage so I would be the bad guy and not her.
This sounds so much like the Wookie that it's terrifying.
As IF we could ever be the bad guy.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
My DS asked to do something, I gave him permission, excitedly he says thank you, you're the best, ILY mom
It was a simple thing, but he does this constantly...it triggered a mom/son moment and I kindly explained about the words ILY...I heard myself telling him to use thank you and that's great and save ILY for meaningful things not material things...I distinctly remember saying, "Loving someone doesn't always mean you get what you want everytime you want something; if I couldn't give you what you wanted would you quit loving me? Love means much more than getting what you want on your terms, it means being able to accept things whether you like them or not and sometimes having to wait or revise or rethink what you want...when you finally get whatever it is you wanted it usually has much more meaning or you realize that it wasn't really what you wanted."
Hmmmmm, maybe I should start taking my own advice...
Okay here's the deal. Last night WW was sewing a Mickey Mouse back on one of DD2's favorite socks and she got it on wrong. She ripped it all out and started over. She happened to be sitting on two suitcases stacked up next to her dresser. She was really tired and frustrated and just when she got finished, she knocked over a box that had, until the moment, been full of straight pins. The box happened to land in one of her open drawers (bad habit of hers - i.e. she leaves drawers open all the time or sometimes even drops them for pool boys). Anyway she let out an expletive and I knew she was tired so I told her to go take a shower and I would clean up the straight pins. She went but the cleaning was easier said than done. Those pins went EVERYWHERE. The drawer bottom had sagged a bit so some pins even went into the groove where the bottom should have fit. I took the drawer apart and got those pins out too and got some nails and put the bottom back really well. I noticed other drawer bottoms had sagged a bit so I decided to fix the rest of them this morning so I would not be hammering last night. WW remembered the cards there but had no idea I was going to work on the drawers. She was outside clipping bushes and I was removing and repairing all the drawers but I had to empty them out to turn the drawers over. I found the cards.
I went and got her and told her I wanted to talk. We had an argument about the cards. She said I was over-reacting. She said the cards meant nothing to her, I asked why she kept them then. I said if she really regretted the affair, she would have thrown the cards away. She says she got them back in January from a mutual friend here. I wanted to know who the enabler was. She wouldn't tell me. I had not yet read all the cards when we had our fight. Honestly their content didn't interest me that much and still doesn't. I have finally read them though. I did shed blood for them.
Basically I told her I am done and she is a free woman to do whatever she wants in Mexico and we all know that what goes on in Mexico, stays in Mexico (that's a song BTW). She said she was sorry and asked me to forgive her. She being Catholic, I asked her about confession and absolution and that it was necessary to stop a sin before being forgiven for it. SO why should I forgive her for something she was still doing?
I asked her how often she looked at the cards. She answered that she has not called him since January. I asked her how often she looks at the cards. She said she is not contacting him. Maybe it was a language barrier. She never answered that question. Now she says she has not looked at them in three months and knew she had to get rid of them. I asked why she didn't get rid of them three months ago. She said she always got busy doing something else.
She said the cards had no importance to her. I said they were important enough to keep hidden away.
Later I decided to scan them and upload them so she could not destroy the evidence. That is when it got ugly. She kept trying to grab them out of my hand. She asked why I wanted to keep them. I asked why she wanted to keep them. I said I wanted them for the lawyer. That is when she grabbed them and the fight started. I wrestled. She fought, bit, scratched, clawed. I never hit her but just tried to control her flailing limbs. I did sit on her finally. I noticed she had a bloody mouth. Then I noticed it was my blood.
I have told her now that I hope she never cheats on her next husband. At least she might learn a lesson from all this. She did finally burn the cards but not until I had scanned all but the one she ate. That one was the note that had accompanied the cell phone he had left for her. It had his phone number, address and email address but I have all those anyway so it was not much of a loss.
Now we are calm and peaceful again. WW is not saying much. She is already asleep. Remind me to check where all the kitchen knives are before I go to bed.
Anyway guys, sorry about the T/J.
Now what kind of wine was KiwiJ? Cold Duck? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I can't remember where we were. Sorry. It has been a long day.
I am exactly 6' BTW. I can't remember who asked. I have not weighed myself in months. I have a scale that reads body fat percentage and I was at 12 % after Dday. That was too depressing. I stopped weighing myself a year ago. I am sure it is up now though.
I feel very inferior today. Forgive me, I'm sure my brain is not working very well. When I read OM's poetry and love notes to WW, I was humbled. I have never been in love that deeply in my life. Not even with Jessica Alba. I think it is my Mother's fault. She was smart beyond belief and ensured that my brain was wrapped around the left side. I have insufficient capacity to love. OM has shone a light where there previously was darkness. No wonder my WW had an affair. No poetry, no lovesick adulation and no love manifested by glowing words and terms. No wonder indeed.
In my sitch, OM was simply a predator. Oh, he prolly fell in love with WW. She is very easy to love. Correction: she used to be easy to love. She has become a monster. But then, I didn't write her poetry.
Can one learn to write poetry or is it congenital? Can I go to school for such a thing? And just think, my boyhood dream was to be Superman and a lifeguard. Just kidding about the lifeguard.
Quote
It was a simple thing, but he does this constantly...it triggered a mom/son moment and I kindly explained about the words ILY...I heard myself telling him to use thank you and that's great and save ILY for meaningful things not material things...I distinctly remember saying, "Loving someone doesn't always mean you get what you want everytime you want something; if I couldn't give you what you wanted would you quit loving me? Love means much more than getting what you want on your terms, it means being able to accept things whether you like them or not and sometimes having to wait or revise or rethink what you want...when you finally get whatever it is you wanted it usually has much more meaning or you realize that it wasn't really what you wanted."
I am sure it is me, but what?
Pio,
Here is exactly why I have 381 clamps of all types and sizes. Never nail drawer bottoms to the drawer sides and back. Buy some Titebond glue, lay a bead on the joining members and clamp tightly. Depending on the drawer thickness, you may need a pipe clamp. Highly recoomend Jorgensen. They boast a quick setting action.
Pio, I wasn't going to look then I just HAD to. Erk, puke and then LMAO. I question gemela's sanity.
Obviously intellect doesn't mean a heck of a lot to her. You have it in spades and you have your dry, witty humour as well.
Go figure.
The only photos or anything of any A nature whatsoever that I had were photos of OM and me when we were teenagers. Rob and I had a ritual burning of all of them one summer night about 3 months after d-day, that was very satisfying. It had always worried Rob, long before the A, that I'd kept the photos for all that time. I certainly didn't look at them but I always knew they were there.
BTW, Cold Duck - I DON'T THINK SO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Is is possible even to buy that stuff any more?
Is there anything that you don't know how to do (barring of course poetry)...you know that is why it won't affect you to loose some brain cells, you'll still be way ahead of us commoners in the brain cell dept when your tx is complete...they could probably even take tissue and you'd be ahead of the pack <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I put those goofy icons in just to annoy...hope it's working <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Just ignore my lightbulb blurb...it's personal...people use ILY way too much for reasons totally unrelated to my def. of love and I don't want my kids growing up becoming one of those superficial people...enough said
how does that relate to this thread...perfectly...this is the most tangential thread I've seen yet...that's why I invited myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
It's not about the look, it's about the youth factor...I've heard from a good source that is the appeal: someone who has no responsibilities, talks about nothing of importance, lot's of philosophical discussions but no life experience to back them up, few obstacles to prevent time spent together (kids, bills, obligations, committees etc), free to be spontaneous since no major obligations, biggest concerns revolve around self and "me", lots of gushing admiration since they only see you at your best and not cleaning the bathrooms or changing diapers or at 0300 steam cleaning dog accidents off the rug etc
That's why these are destined to fail as soon as cold hard reality works it's way in; they are clueless as to the realworld workings of relationships
Is there anything that you don't know how to do (barring of course poetry)...
Is anyone old enough to remember the TV show, "Laugh In"? Henry Gibson made appearances in which he would come out front and center and recite a humorous poem. This one stuck with me after all those years. Cannot explain it; wouldn't even begin to.
Girafe by Henry Gibson
Girafe with its neck so long, Never says a word. Maybe he's got a sore throat, Or maybe he just don't want to.
Now, can I be a chick magnet with this poem? If not, I could memorize some Yeats or if I get more daring, Milton and Tennyson. But, honestly, I am fond of the Girafe poem. Of course, since metaphors go over my head, I don't know if the poem has more than one meaning or not. I think it is about a long neck girafe. But, maybe it is a poem about how we should meet challenges head on. I simply don't know. Still trying to decipher "The Old Man and the Sea" from the ninth grade. The only F I ever got in my life was my report on that stinkin' little book.
Didn't Hemingway shoot himself?
Quote
you know that is why it won't affect you to loose some brain cells, you'll still be way ahead of us commoners in the brain cell dept when your tx is complete...they could probably even take tissue and you'd be ahead of the pack <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
That's the problem: they are taking what used to be good brain tissue.
Where does it go I wonder?
Do you suppose the tissue eradication violates the Law of Conservation?
Quote
how does that relate to this thread...perfectly...this is the most tangential thread I've seen yet...that's why I invited myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
It is only tangential because Pio keeps doing t/j.
Quote
do you feel like a frozen dinner yet?
No, today I feel more like a baked potato. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
No frozen dinner tonight. Nathan's hot dog it is. Mircowaved exactly 73 seconds.
Todd, you would be a complete chick magnet with the Giraffe poem. It is a poignant and metaphysical statement on life, in fact it almost covers the MEANING of life.
Shoot, I must read the Old Man and the Sea and do a critical analysis for you. You can resubmit it and get an A+.
One of the books for our final exams at school was Douglas Bader's Reach for the Sky. It looked horribly boring and I couldn't be bothered reading it. So I read the blurb on the back and the notes in the front and looked at the pictures.
I got an A+ for the whole exam so my method seems to have worked.
Sadly enough I do confess to remembering Laugh In...however I can't believe you remember that poem...hhhhmmmmmm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Perhaps my son is related to you somehow??? He will observe and remember the tiniest detail of a book or movie or just an observation...is that a male thing or just a personality trait thing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
BUT, he can't tell you the central characters or main theme of the book/movie etc...he is dead on with the details though...he is having huge reading comprehension difficulties as you may imagine since standardized testing doesn't really reward you for the details...any strategic thoughts for success??? He could tell you all kinds of things about gems and rocks...too bad that's not on the tests! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
The brain tissue is sent to be divided and injected to those of us who are less fortunate in the brains dept...we pay top $ for it...I bet you don't even get a cut of it
Of course you would know the exact micro time for your HD...precision...do you work with lasers???? I bet you would be an awesome microsurgeon or tailor all that attention to detail if you deal with finance people like me would make you mad...yes, psychotic and angry all at once <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I am much more a fly by the seat of my pants philosphy with many aspects of life...it's fun but the consequences are sometimes not fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Just a quick note. The pictures of OM have been such a blessing to me. I never really saw him much when he was here and I guess I had built him up in my mind too. You know, this formidable Mr. Perfect. The pictures make me realize how puny he is. They make me smile.
I got a little drunk last night. My inhibitions came down and I told WW how I really felt about things. It was not pretty but it felt good. It still feels good this morning.
BTW, don't say girly man too loudly. I am not joking about this. I don't have solid proof yet because I have never needed to get it but there is some evidence that he might bat from both sides of the plate. I never pursued it because I wanted WW to decide to stay in the M on her own. I, like so many others, didn't want to be what was behind Door # 2.
I think the photo’s prove once and for all that affairs have nothing to do with what is missing in the betrayed spouse but all to do with what is missing in the wayward spouse.
Even for an Englishman he looks….. feminine.
And for a native of the country that has given us Lennon and McCartney, Costello, Bowie, Gabriel. Waters…. To quote Bon Jovi!!!! What is this world coming to?
I don't know how to explain this really well but somehow I feel "cured". I don't know why but I feel like a ton has been lifted off my shoulders. I feel pity for WW now but in an empathetic way - not a bad way.
I have said many times that I don't believe in coincidence. If WW had not decided to fix that sock (which she has put off for months), had not sat on the suitcases instead of on the bed where she usually does her sewing, had not dropped those pins, had not been so tired and frustrated, I had not been such a kind and caring husband to want to pick them up for her, I had not been a "don't leave any job unfinished" kind of guy, well - I could go on - I never would have found those cards. They truly were a Godsend and I mean that in the most reverent way.
I can't believe how he implored her to abandon her children. What a piece of shyte (in his language).
I don't care what happens any more. If WW does leave me, I know it won't be for her betterment but that is her decision. I am just so happy I found that stuff. It was all I could do to keep a straight face in front of WW this morning. She deserves him. Good for her.
Am I being too giddy? Just tell me to shut up.
Oh and:
Vintage red. Puleeeeze. I take Pepperband for a Ripple person just like me. And I respect that. She doesn't need to impress anyone.
OMG - I just figured out that Pio posted pictures. Quick, aren't I?
Pio - What a wimp? Does he have his finger in his mouth in one photo? OMG!!!!!! I hope you both got tested for HIV, because he looks like he has a little sugar in his pocket.
I hate taxes. I think the federal income tax rate should be less than two percent. I am a Libertarian. In my government, it could be accomplished.
Pio,
Just call me shake and bake. I may have said this already, but when all this is behind me, I am going to hunt down the person who invented the "process" and torture him or her senseless.
Next, you have to rent "Swept Away". I got a D on that one because I correctly got the name of the boat. Otherwise, it would have been my second F, and also my second non-A.
Ms. McGraw picked on me all through the ninth grade. She was angry with me because my taste in reading ran to science fiction. She wanted me to "branch out". She wanted me to strive to be a writer. I got excited and told her a plot for a science fiction book I had in mind. She was not amused. She said that a book should be written on at least two levels and usually more.
So, I took her advice. I wrote the first seven chapters on the first floor; the next five on the second floor and the final chapters on the third floor.
Again, the woman failed to be amused.
I just do not get metaphors. If someone wants to teach me, for example, about the shifting power in relationships, why don't they simply write an article? All this gibberish about the rich woman who fell for the deck hand because he was powerful on the desserted island. It is too much for the average cat.
DDS has been obsolete for many years. Too many library patrons misunderstood it. We Libertarians cooked up a new sytem that was infintely more complex that the DDS. Job security.
Did the Bigger make a cameo appearancxe or was that a dream?
I'd rather be a forest than a tree Yes I would.
Sitting on a cornflake Waiting for the van to come.
Libertarianism is a political philosophy[1] advocating that individuals should be free to do whatever they wish with their person or property, as long as they do not infringe on the same liberty of others. Libertarians hold as a fundamental maxim that all human interaction should be voluntary and consensual. They maintain that the initiation (or threat) of physical force against another person or his property, or the commission of fraud, is a violation of that principle. Some libertarians regard all initiation of force as immoral, whereas others support a limited government that engages in the minimum amount of initiatory force (such as minimal taxation and regulation) that they believe necessary to ensure maximum individual freedom (negative liberty). Force is not opposed when used in retaliation for initiatory aggressions such as trespassing or violence. Libertarians favor an ethic of self-responsibility and strongly oppose the welfare state, because they believe forcing someone to provide aid to others is ethically wrong, ultimately counter-productive, or both.
I don't think it describes my philosophy at all. It was written with a slant against Libertarianism. I do believe in helping others and do. I am opposed to the Government holding a gun on me and taking my money from me by force just because some politician works some pork for his or her district.
Besides, private charity is inherently more efficent. Approximately twelve years ago, I read the statistic that if you take all the money our federal government spends on the poor including cash payments welfare (AFDC), Title 7, food stamps, Medicaid and housing subsistence, it equates to an average of $60,000 per recepient household. Today, that number would be materially higher.
When I was growing up, we were extremely poor. If it had not been for the Salvation Army, I never would have had toys for Christmas. It was all done with voluntary contributions. That type of charity was delivered at the local level which is the most efficient and better accomplishes the goals. For Washington to be so arrogant that it can determine what and whree to spend money is ludicrous.
I looked up the Democrats as I feel that is where I would vote if I was an American. This is the definition and is in line with my thinking.
"The Party advocates civil liberties, social freedoms, equal rights, equal opportunity, and a free enterprise system tempered by government intervention. The Party believes that government should play a role in alleviating poverty and social injustice, even if that means a larger role for government and progressive taxation to pay for social services."
The source (Wikipedia again) also said there are Libertarian Democrats.
You are typing fine.
I'm one of those lefties who grew up with complete and utter privilege.
If I can try to be coherent for a moment, I believe the only rightful province of government is to ensure that my life, liberty and property are not violated by another. Hence, we need law enforcement and az judicial system.
BTW, many of the US's founding fathers were Libertarians. Thomas Jefferson pershonalified it. They must be spinnign in their graves at what is going on these days.
I've been called a socialist. When I was much younger I would have called myself a socialist. That was when I thought that the equal distribution of everything would solve the world's problems.
Now I don't think that is the answer at all. For one, it can never be done because there will always be those who will reach the top no matter what and those that will stay on the bottom no matter what.
Interestingly, both Dems and Republicans desire a big governemt. They just have different goals.
As far as equality, that is not what the dems want. They want equal outcome. That is social engineering and every attempt to accomplsih it has failed.
You see, in my world, one could do anything to their own body. They drink themselves into obivion with Grey Goose or shoot themselves up with smack. It is their body. Now, when they tie me down and shoot smack into my vein, we have some cotton to pick.
Our prisons are full of people, especially drug users who are predominantley poor and minority, because government is conufsed about is role. We have lost our way.
What dems truly want is redistrubtion of income. BTW, you and I agree about helping the poor and ensuring equal rights, etc.
Here's the bomb and I can say this as a person who grew up dirt poor. Most of the poor are poor because they want to be poor. They are unwilling to do anything to improve their lot because they love wallowing in self pity.
I pulled myself out of a very bad and tough neighborhood and was enourmously successful in life economically speaking. We had a great family etc. Well, until...
Well, I watched my parents wallow in poverty for many years. They could have done something about it. There are poor throughout the world who start a business or otherwise work hard and build a life. The point is that as long as the governmetn "takes cre of them" there is no icentibve to change.
I'm really out of my depth when it comes to American politics and don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to an opinion of social problems in the US. I'm sure they're very similar to the problems here. Ethnic minorities and all.
I don't believe people are poor because they want to be poor. I believe they are in a cycle of poverty. I don't know what the answer is. If I did, I'd solve the world's problems in a jiffy. Some people, like you, make it against the odds no matter what. That's what I meant by some people will always reach the top no matter what. That's why socialism would never work. You have to factor in the "human spirit".
There are exceptions to my statement. Primarily children, the elderty and the disabled.
Worry not, this country, or the world for that matter, has as much chance of electing a Libertain president and congress as a hummingbird can fly to the moon with the Washington monument strapped to its tail.
And the dems will rergain the WH in 2008. We will have our first woman president.
b, I can think of seve3ral examples of people I knw from third world countries who moved to the US or elsewhere, worked hard and gretly improved their lives. A nurse at one of my doctors is from Bangladesh. Another nurse at another doctor is from India. I know of many Latins who improved their lives, my FIL among them. I know Fillipinos who grew up in abject poverty but found a way to overcome it. It takes desire and adetermination to do it.
We also have a woman Prime Minister. Not a very popular one I might add. Being left and all. She is an old alumni of my Department at the university so I guess I'm a bit biased in liking her. My sister hates her with a passion. My sis is also a Libertarian. Thinks the sun shines out of Ayn Rand's posterior. We don't discuss politics round the dinner table. LOL
besides I have a huge problem. i just moved offices from one building to the next and have been setting up my computer. The optical mouse on one of the computers will not work on the desk where its screen is. It works fine on the other desk. It also will not work with a mouse pad. It stubbornly refuses to work anywhere but on the wrong desk.
I don't know how it knows it's the wrong desk but it obviously does. Now I am operating this computer in the classic Da Vinci spread eagle pose and it is hurting. Maybe I need a new desk?
I hate to admit this but my DDs like bluberry muffins. Up till now, I have not been able to have bluberry muffin mix in the house. Now I am going to follow Tuck Tummy's advice and program the iPod for nothing but Bon Jovi and plug it into its Bose speaker in the kitchen and bake blueberry muffins night and day. (if you didn't read the cards, you won't know what I am talking about).
BTW, can we talk about religion? I don't think we have offended enough people yet today. Oh wait, let's not talk about religion - otherwise CG (aka FH) might be tempted to post and I don't want that.
Desire and determination will never be out of the equation. But for those who don't have it, can't get it - someone has to look out for them.
In my best British accent: Really?
No, this is the failing of government, of liberal government and that is the notion of equal outcome. The truth is that there are people who don't have drive because the government embarked on a program of national pacification instead of addressing the root problem.
If someone is unwilling to take care of themselves, let them become homeless. then they will elevatexd to the status of sainthood.
Oprah was the one who spewed the nonsense about eating less than three hours before bedtime causes weight gain. And eating in the morning doesn't of course.
I want to rock and roll all night And party every day.
There is a door right outside my new office with a sign on it that says "Absolutely No Admittance!". It just really bothers me. I mean, if absolutely nobody can use it, why did they put the door there in the firstp lace? Why not just leave it a solid wall? I just can't get any work done because of that sign. I need a vacation.
My other pet peeve is all these software books I have that have 10 or 15 empty pages at the back that don't have anything on them except the message "This page intentionally left blank".
By doing that, the page is no longer blank. In fact, it was left intentionally non-blank.
I wish they would change the message to read:
"This page intentionally left blank except for this message saying it is blank which technically means that it isn't really blank even though it is intended to be. So, apart from this message, the rest is intentionally blank so the page is essentially blank except for this little bit."
Can I ask you what you meant when you said I had separated myself from the miasma that WW created? I have thought about that since last night. I was just wondering. It kind of has me worried.
I now see WW in a totally new light - and she has on the wrong kind of makeup for it.
Putting those cards on the web yesterday gave me another idea. I have another directory where I was keeping all ELINT from the affair for a few months. It is not quite updated but it is pretty good. Most everything else is pretty well documented in my threads here. There is a lot in Spanish. Sorry. I tried to name the files by date so you can follow the progression.
If you get to reading and have a question about something, just ask. I'm not shy. I will say that I know there is some embarassing stuff in there and I am not proud of it all. I think it chronicles a good portion of the grief process. I have kept this in case I ever needed it.
But if exposure kills an affair, imagine WW having her affair plastered on the Internet. Will this make her mad? I don't care any more. Those love letters were the last straw. I want the world to see what she has done. BWAAHAAHAAAHAA BWAAHAAHAAHAA BWAAHAAHAAHAA!
Did I beg at first? Yes. Do I now wonder why? Yes.
I loved the "bluberry" muffin slip and read it as "blubbery"...blubber, whale blubber, blubber mouth and so on
Todd got me smiling with the Bay City Rollers...first crush on a Rock Band I ever had...all that plaid though...
Enjoyed Pepperbands comments and mischieviousness about the girliemann...he looks like he should hook up with Kate Moss and dominate the runway at any minute modeling metro gear
Glad you purged your dead wood and have found peace with yourself Pio
All the Libertarian philosophy was rather interesting...so I may ask...what are your views on defending against terrorism if you are like the Wikipedia def. against violence and force?
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you all will) but wasn't Social Security set up for the vulnerable populations and isn't that what the intent of Medicaid and Medicare were for, the elderly, poor and disabled (SSI Disability)????
I agree with KiwiJ. that people are stuck in a cycle...not to say that it is impossible to get out but the odds are definitely against you.
We may be turning back toward more local support vs. large gov support...there is a huge movement of community coalition building but it is more of a forced philosophy with agencies created just to teach and foster the efforts vs. a naturally occurring out of need, realization and team building efforts. Just like anything else things don't usually work as well if people are forced to do something...gottta have the drive, desire, motivation...can you hear the Rocky music in the background now?????
Speaking on behalf of ToddAC, OH YEAH?!?!? Well your childrens' Mommy wears army boots!
BTW, Someone earlier (ToddAC?) asked when I had become pio. I thought being a head louse (piojito) was the smallest, least significant thing I could be. Apparently I was wrong. I guess a pio is even smaller than a piojito.
Maybe I'll change my screen name to muon or something.
I have another directory where I was keeping all ELINT from the affair for a few months. It is not quite updated but it is pretty good. Most everything else is pretty well documented in my threads here. There is a lot in Spanish. Sorry. I tried to name the files by date so you can follow the progression.
I just replied to your post with the longest post I have ever written replete with typos. It took me forever. In fact, so long that when I click send or whatever the button says, I got the error message "we cannot proceed". Several deep breaths later, I hit the back button and it was all gone.
I cannot do it again. It wore me out. I am having trouble focussing my eyes and can't stomach it all over. It was a nice reply however.
BTW, i have had the same problem with lengthy replies and have since copied them prior to hitting the post button so that when I have to go back to the reply i just paste and whooop there it is!
"Baby, do you understand me now Sometimes I feel a little mad But don't you know that no one alive Can always be an angel When things go wrong I seem to be bad But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood."
Readers Digest version is that I am all for helping those who *cannot help themselves* (as opposed to will not help themselves).
I am just against the government doing it. Government has an insatiable appetite for spending money and is inherently wasteful and inefficient. Our kids and grandkids will suffer greatly.
I also pasted these lyrics. Do you recognize the song?
Someones going to have to explain it to me Im not sure what it means My babys feeling funny in the morning Shes having trouble getting into her jeans
Should the" misunderstood" be my theme song...seems it is a repeated trend in responses to my posts or am I just that far gone without experiencing microwaves?
Or were you prefacing your political comments?
I prefer Running On Empty if I have a choice
I have taken to the Rhianna song "Unfaithful"...good beat...message that suits how I feel on the receiving end
Should the" misunderstood" be my theme song...seems it is a repeated trend in responses to my posts or am I just that far gone without experiencing microwaves?
No, actually the "misunderstood" comment was defending, or excusing, my own lack of communication skills. I think the metaphor thingy is to blame but can't be sure.
Quote
Or were you prefacing your political comments?
Yes, that's what I meant!
Quote
I prefer Running On Empty if I have a choice.
My favorite would have to be Late for the Sky, or Fountain of Sorrow or Linda Paloma. I have been told (by a friend who does understand such things) that JB's lyrics contain metaphors. I don't believe it but whatever...
My progressive state will have two "sales tax holidays" this year.
There are limits however. Tax free purchases on computers are limited to $1,500. If you purchase a $2,000 puter, you pay tax only on the "excess" or $500.
With me?
Now, the tax free status on clothing is limited to $100 per item. If you purchase a suit for $400, you pay tax on the ENTIRE $400!
If you have a PO Box # how do you find the identity without paying for a search?
If the search does not work, it would seem that you could send a "letter" certified return receipt. The recipient is required to sign to accept the letter. I am guessing that you don't want your identity known and I don't know the limitations. I believe you can also generate post cards online through usps.com.
Yes Todd, you are correct, I don't want to send a certified return receipt letter to H when he denies having a PO Box...
I mail jacked him a few weeks back and confronted with some issues that had previously been...you got it...denied
Got a call yesterday and the corp asked me to verify address...strangely they had a PO Box for H's contact address...we never had a PO Box and have lived in current residence for a year...I have seen bills from this corp in months past so when they had that info I initially blew it off...
I was doing some mindless work when the thought crossed that maybe the PO Box was for real...funny thing is I mentioned all this stuff about the wrong address and PO Box to H innocently the day I got the call but at the time of course I didn't even think that it could be...
I called today and got the Box # so that I could f/u...some other puzzle pieces turned up as well...hhhhmmmmmmmmmm
Odd thing is H is busting his butt since his return to give me $, spend time with me and kids, change work schedule...even has planned an outing with just me for next week
On the other hand there has been zero transparency and no way for me to see if what is said is actually what is happening...
Due to my zero trust policy that makes things very frustrating...I am holding back on things and don't initiate much of anything...provide answers but listen more than anything...try not to ask questions since I won't believe the answers anyway...
Not having the greatest of days but I'm sure it could be much worse since I prefer the glass half full outlook unlike muon-the-negative
Todd that must make you the opposite of muon...what would that be???? You balance off P...what is the correct term...ahhhhh yes....the antimuon
After a little research I found that muons are created by cosmic rays...shoulda figured that's were the twins originate with all of their cosmic energy and geekspeak!!!
KiwiJ., you and I need to go to a virtual wine tasting and discuss the arts...
Well according to 2much's hypothesis, I don't think I will ever fly to Atlanta. If Todd and I were to actually meet, it would be total annihilation.
2much is right about the copy and paste. With this new version of the forum software, I never lose any posts any more. It is drustrating that you are given a time limit for posting however. For long replies, I do them in Word.
I have made a slight miscalculation but I caught it in time. Today is our last day here - not tomorrow. These 1:00AM flights always confuse me. Especially when you have to leave the "day" before to get to the airport.
Since finding the cards, I have lost count of the SF. I think WW is trying to buy me off. She must think that is my #1 EN. She is wrong. She should just ask. I would tell her. Last night "during", she asked me if I wanted to end "this" - meaning was I willing to give up our SF forever. I didn't answer. She asked again a bit later - all during the heat of passion. Again I didn't answer - because the answer was YES!!!!
I don't know why finding those cards have changed me so but they definitely have. Now that I see what a dweeb she fell for and have read that poetry, I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for WW. That is even beneath high school puppy love. It is simply ridicules. I am seeing affairs in a whole new light. This has been an epipham.. epifane... oh, an eye opening experience.
Send a letter to the PO Box. Say the recipient has won a 30 day free trial supply of pills to increase his manhood 30%. Permanent results - guaranteed. All he has to do is mail in the enclosed coupon (give him an address) and wait for the mail. Should work.
Anyway I am set to go. iPods, GameBoys, PSP, DVD, DVR, camera all charged and good to go.
I am not a prophet and definitely not a physicist so I wouldn't put much weight on my prediction...however, if you two should meet I would predict an all night Crossfire debate to include politics, aeronautical engineering and molecular analysis with brief but intense religious and economic and debates...definitely ending in the wee hours of the morning with one or both in a drunken stupor...the debate would continue over cheap overbrewed 24 hour diner coffee and end with a country boy breakfast. Never would the words "infidelity" be spoken b/c if they were to be uttered the true sensitive sides of the twins would erupt like a volcano and they would be blubbering together like 2 school girls taking hours to regain composure and machismo.
How's that for a prediction?
Ok, the ideas about the PO Box is pretty good, I may have to revise the manly product into something more in line with health and fitness and then it would be a definite go-ahead.
You are WAY wrong. Coffee??? I have four words for you: hair of the dog.
I have never heard of Maker's Mark until I saw it at Todd's bar on that "other" infidelity site. I think I'll look for it and raise a toast to my fellow soldier in this war against adultery.
Hope you are feeling okay. So far you seem just like Todd, not FogTodd.
Hi b,
I am doing better than I thought att this point. The normal: headaches, tired and nausea. I was worried about my mental function but thus far okay there. Just can't type.
After a little research I found that muons are created by cosmic rays...shoulda figured that's were the twins originate with all of their cosmic energy and geekspeak!!!
Back when I was in seminary school, muons were called mu mesons. Muons sound like something one would put in their soup.
Anyway, now we are in to particle physics and quantum mechanics. Einstein could never reconcile quantum mechanics to his realtivity.
But mu mesons (stubborn) have shown that Einstein's theory of relativity are correct. Specifically his claim that as you approach the speed of light, time slows relative to a statinary object. When mu mesons are struck by cosmic rays, they have a life of only several seconds. Yet we find mu mesons, or their deritives here on Earth. This fits Einsteins's theory perfectly
Sorry to T/J again but you might notice on the corner of one of the cards there is a little drawing with the note "remember doing this at the pool?".
Well WW and OM had this secret sign worked out where they would point to their eye, their heart and then the other person to say "I love you". Isn't that just too cute? I think I might have done that in 4th grade. Can't remember. Maybe it will come back to me when I have MY second childhood.
I have heard of subatomic particles being "charmed" but never stubborn. Why are muons so stubborn? I only ask because this falls in line with 2much's theory.
I read the following on another website. Can someone tell me if this is correct? Seems odd to my left brained mind.
"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it is indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it is indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it is indifference."
It is almost 7:00AM here now. We leave for the airport at 9:00PM tonight. So if a train leaves Denver heading east at 87 mph and a taxi comes to my house to pick me up at 9:00PM, that means I am leaving here in about 14 hours. Where will the train be at that time?
This is my thought for my day. I always wonder why this has happened to me. There is a reason for everything. What good is coming out of this for me I wonder (since we know that all things work together for good).
Something that occurred to me this AM is that one thing I have gotten from this is that I now know my capacity for love. I had a "somewhat" difficult childhood. I always felt my entire life that something was missing from me. I heard love songs and never believed that people could really feel that way. This A has answered for me that question. I now know that I am capable of a love that permeates my soul. Love that knows now depth or ending.
I feel like a complete person from all this. I feel great. I know that there is nothing wrong with me (besides being an [censored] but that was a given wasn't it?).
I think you are all so great. I am gushing now. I'll shut up.
Can anyone tell me if I need to pack a heavy coat for Florida? I know that, since it is summertime over here in the Eastern hemisphere, it is winter over in the Western hemisphere. That is why we planned our vacation for August - to escape the heat and humidity of Saudi. But I don't tolerate cold too well any more. How cold is it in Orlando?
Oh, it's not Eastern versus Western hemisphere with the seasonal weather reversal. It's North/South hemisphere... It's currently Winter in the South hemisphere while it's now Summer in the North hemisphere.
In Orlando right now, it's the dead middle of the hot summer weather. It's usually around 90 degrees Fahrenheit at midday in June, July, and August. And the humidity tends to be pretty thick. Expect random mid-afternoon rain showers as well.
LOL, NotThatGirl, Pio is a chemical engineer who gushes (an almost attractive quality in a man but not quite) who knows it will be very hot in Florida.
I was totally indifferent to Todd's post but I like the idea of the opposite of life being indifference and not death. I do not intend to die and am pleased I have an option.
No the opposite of love is not hate. They are two separate emotions. You can hate without having loved and you can love without having hated. I think they are both extreme emotions which are very rarely felt. I don't think I've hated in my life. I have loved.
Indifference is the wonderful state (regarding the OM) in which I am now where it JUST DOESN'T MATTER any more. It's a state of "who cares".
The opposite of art being indifference and not ugliness. I don't think so. The opposite of art is not ugliness. A feeling about art is not that the opposite is indifference or ugliness. Art is in your inner being and even the ugly can speak to that.
I think that might be a metaphor. j/k. I don't know what it is.
It is 123F outside and its not even noon. Define hot.
Actually I think love and hate are very closely related. Both are very strong emotions for something that you care very deeply about. When that dies, the emotions dies - indifference. So if you don't love someone, you are indifferent. If you like someone, you are different. If you love someone, you are very different.
A metaphor is like an analogy - or is that simile? I never can rememeber. Never read the old man and the sea but I did see the movie. Didn't see any metaphors though. it was tough to envision Spencer Tracy as a Cuban peasant fisherman. Not very well cast.
I will buy a copy of the old man and the sea in the USA and read it with my glass of Maker's Mark by my side - just for you ToddAC.
Problem is, that's not the way authors write out their metaphors. They do it as symbolim. Well, maybe they do but take "The Great Gatsby" for instance. I read that book and rather enjoyed it. Fitzgerald is an economic word master, something I am lousy at. When my eleveth grade Lit teacher told me the book was about the elusiveness of the American dream, I nearly fainted.
Fitzgerald's metaphor for the dream was the green light off the end of the dock. But the rest of the book just told a story. How am I supposed to get that the book was about the American dream?
I hate to ask this but here goes: What in the world was "The Grapes of Wrath" about?
Or, to put it another way, why didn't Fitzgerald just write a one page summary and say simply that I believe the American dream is elusive for some. And then we could go drink a beer. Can you imagine how streamlined book reports would become for kids?
Hmm... maybe I should become a writer. Or a teacher. Oh, excuse me. We cannot call them teachers here anymore. They are "educators". Do you see the difference? They cannot be held responsible if a kid doesn't learn. It's the teacher's union hard at work.
She was biting my arms, wrists and hands trying to get me to release the notes. Her hands were busy trying to tear my testicles off. I am not joking. This really happened.
No. I got my forearm under her chin in sort of a half-nelson so she could not direct her teeth where she wanted them. I just held her in about every bear hug position I could to keep her from doing me much harm. She still drew blood from various sites.
For some reason a round trip ticket to Mexico costs $1500 and a one-way ticket costs $4000. Explain that one to me.
Considering what she tried to do, I would have considered the $2500 difference a sound investment. Why is it that way? Same reason you can fly from Boston to Miami for $99 and if you fly from Boston to Atlanta, it's $400. It's a peculiar industry.
Quote
The girls saw all this. They were crying and screaming.
It probably would but, since nobody wants to go, it has never been calculated. Some people even think it is physically impossible given the thrust limitations of a standard jetliner. I have never done the math to know for sure. Maybe an F16 with a thrust to weight ratio greater than 1 and considering inflight refueling - Maybe.
I will be driving alone with DD's from Houston to Tulsa. I expect that will take about three years. I have every electronic device known to man to entertain the DDs on the way. I also have every charger/adapter/extra battery I can carry and I have every single children's DVD ever made ripped to MP4 and stored on my Archos AV-700.
There is a ride at WDW that Pio will surely take DD's on. You board a car of some kind and it goes through an area with puppets and all the disney stuff. The following song plays ad nausem. Seriously, the ride must take over four hours. I was insane when we finally emerged and I no longer had to hear the song.
Poor Pio...
It's a world of laughter A world of tears It's a world of hopes And a world of fears There's so much that we share That it's time we're aware It's a small world after all
There is just one moon And one golden sun And a smile means Friendship to ev'ryone Though the mountains divide And the oceans are wide It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small, small world
Lived in FL but never made it to WDW b/c I insist that all 3 kids should be able to ride same rides to prevent having to go to Kiddie rides. We have about 2 inches to go before I can no longer use that as an excuse!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Pio needs to take caution with his bites...human bites frequently cause bad infections...not sure how extensive but may call for some antibiotics...if they start getting red, hot, swollen, increased pain, fever etc...go get some tx ...you would have done better with an animal bite <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
About the giraffe poem...I think it is a statement of how courageous and risk taking the giraffe is...he is sticking his long neck out and not saying a word...
Todd you seem to be coping well in the face of nausea...it was the least favorite part of all my pregnancies...
I'm sure for you it will be well worth the outcome but how do you deal with it? Are you taking any Zofran or any of the newest meds to help?
Try this one with a friend...my H used to lovingly do this...as soon as we would get into the car he would make sure to take every circular path he could find, make quick stops and swerve at every opportunity...a very cheap version of WDW rides!!! LOL, I used to want to kill him...not so sure things have changed much <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
KiwiJ., I believe art is within us and interpreted differently by everyone...I see stuff that I would trash but someone pays a fortune for it...kinda like the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing...
Well, can't stall anymore...gotta get the kiddos ready for church...always a huge struggle on Sundays...
Thinking of you all
Thanks for all the support, diversion and friendship...it sure makes these crazy days pass easier doesn't it?
Three more hours. WW is a little sad. I asked why. She said she wants to come back. I reminded her how she said she hates it here. I told her that the love letters were pretty much it for me. Women who want to stay in a marriage don't keep love letters from the pool boy. I told her that we have agreed to a separation. Let's just see how it goes. Let's not make any decisions right now because if I have to decide right now - she never comes back.
I'm just wondering why you fell in love with gemela to begin with. I probably have a skewed opinion of her (especially after seeing that shiney, posing, creepy pool boy with a penchant for grandma greeting cards), but do you two talk about anything but buying stuff and how she looks and her golf game and how people see her? Is there any depth there? Does she care about anything other than primping? Is she interested in art or music (Bon Jovi isn't music...), politics, women's issues, world events, anything? Could you have the kind of discussion with her that you have here with your pals?
This isn't so much about trashing gemela, but trying to find out what you're all about and why you chose her to begin with. That can help you to salvage this marriage if you decide to or to choose someone who can be more of a real companion to you the next time around.
Does gemela's dad know yet? He seems to condone her sister's adultery. Just wondering why he would be upset with her for the same thing. Does your SIL's OM have plenty of dollars? Is that why they accept it?
I wonder if she's thought about the life she would have with pool boy. I'm sure he can't afford much more than a counsel house in the UK -- a bit different from her country club lifestyle now. I hear the thrift stores are great in the UK... Not much of a shopper, myself... Shoes are very expensive here... Don't think pool boy could afford too many.
I fell in love with gemela for her smile. She has the most beautiful smile and a wonderful, loving and warm heart. She is not too much into world events which is why I maintain my current EA with ToddAC. We talk about the girls. We used to have a lot in common. We do talk some about issues like we do here except for maybe quantum physics but then, she isn't perfect.
FIL does not know that SIL is not married AFAIK. They have maintained this secret very well. FIL certainly does not know about gemela's affair and I am sure she will not tell him. She will make up a good story.
MIL does not accept the adultery either. I can't begin to imagine how many candles have given their lives at the hands of MIL praying that somehow this will all work out. SIL's OM is an Argentine expat. He has four or five children back in Argentina with his wife. MIL accepts it because she is powerless to do anything else. FIL and MIL are divorced and never speak.
I am sure gemela has never thought about life with the pool boy other than a fairytail dream life. She had a British Airways Vacations travel book about York and Northern England. She said it was the only book they had. What a coincidence. I ripped it up. DD1 made a pinata out of it yesterday.
I was telling ToddAC in an email that surprisingly one of the biggest problems I seem to have right now that those cards made me lose respect for gemela. I had built up OM in my mind to be something special and wonderful. I read those cards and saw those pictures and I am just ashamed and embarassed for gemela. I may have acted like that in grade school but certainly not after. I see her A in a whole new light and it is not pretty. I am not the least bit angry about the cards. I laugh when I think about them. It is like finding out there is no boogey man hiding in the closet.
For the past year, I could never justify the affair. Now I can't even legitimize it. It has suddenly become surreal. Their cute little sign langauge they used every day at the pool. Give me a break. This is just playground puppy love.
I am sure that while she is in Mexico, she can look up at the sky and know that her star is shining along side his and that some day their dream will come true.
I think you need to give this all some time to settle. It takes a while to digest a new twist, like the reality of OM and how it affects your opinion of gemela.
I also think that she just doesn't know how to even begin to deal with the mess -- either for herself and her inability to get over the OM and especially how to begin rebuilding with you. It seems that on many levels that you'd be intimidating to try to approach about this and she probably can't deal with it. If you decide to try to save your M, you're going to have to show her the path back and help her figure out what to do. Not exactly what any BH wants, but sometimes you have to suck it up in life. If she ends up back with you and you two can start to love each other again, it could be worth it. But, only you can decide how much you're willing to do to fix it.
I hope you find some answers on your trip and that it shakes up things enough that gemela finally starts getting it. Good luck.
Todd you seem to be coping well in the face of nausea...it was the least favorite part of all my pregnancies...
I'm sure for you it will be well worth the outcome but how do you deal with it? Are you taking any Zofran or any of the newest meds to help?
2much,
You name a drug and there is a ninety percent probability that I am taking it. Amongst other things, the tumor scrambled my hormones which did this and did that so I take those meds and the other ones. But yes, I have script for Zofran. I have not filled it yet. I am ashamed to admit how many pills I take a day. Then there are patches and injections.
The nausea has not been pleasant. I have been eating licorice and crackers and drinking ginger ale. Otherwise, I am still on the infidelity diet. And the infidelity sleep plan I might add. And the infidelity depression plan.
Sorry, don't usually wallow in self-pity; just having a bad morning.
I am going to have to get over those cards. I need time. They were a serious shock.
We both came to the conclusion that we needed time and that is why we decided to take the break. That plan is still valid. I am not letting the cards change the plan.
I guess I am hoping that gemela will find herself again. I think she has lost herself somehow somewhere. She needs to find out who she is again. I think MIL can help her do that.
I think I have sucked up quite a lot for the past year. I should change my screen name to Hoover. I have not given up but I am rapidly losing interest. Whether we get back together or not is somewhat time-dependent. I am not trying to predict the future. I just am at a really happy place right now in my own life. I killed the boogey man.
Now gemela needs to find a way to do the same thing. But first maybe she needs to decide who the boogey man really is.
Have you bothered to sort through any of the emails on the link in my sig line? I am curious because I have not gotten any feedback from any of that yet. I can't remember very well what all is there. I remember that it is not pretty.
I read many of the emails and other stuff. Honestly, much of it are triggers for me. It's different but the same.
Yes, you have been a trooper for a year. Plan B is the right road at this point.
On a somewhat lighter note, be sure to take DDs on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride Through London. The kids love it. There was one part at the end that scared the dickens out of me. Didn't phase the kids. They did not see the danger. Well, there was no danger. But it surely seemed lie it at the time.
I haven't had a chance to look through it. I remember the main details of your story. It's hard for me to try to figure out how to help, because I'm so different than gemela. I'm trying to figure out what she's like and who I know in real life with a similar personality to try to think about how best to help her. At least you're motivated to try to help her, though you are weary. My good friend just told me about his WW (he kept the A to himself for 9 long months) and he's not willing to help his WW find her way back and do what's necessary to save the M. If she can't figure it out on her own, he's not going to help her. And I don't think she can figure it out on her own. That's why I'm sensitive to your situation and really feel like gemela can't do this herself.
Have you thought about telling her sister and mom about the link with the cards and the photos? If gemela can see this all through some else's eyes and see how pathetic that twerp is, maybe she can start getting past it. Embarrassment sucks, but it's a lot better than this lovelorn crap.
I can't figure out gemela or Todd's WW. I just don't get it. sigh...
You're going to be in Florida, is that right? I've got a lot on my plate now and can't remember. We lived in Florida when we were in school. I hate theme parks and got stuck doing the Disney/Epcott thing when company came. Even with my rotten attitude about theme parks, I love Bush Gardens. They have a really nice gorilla exhibit. And the water rides are fun. And even though SeaWorld is cheesy, it's exciting for kids to see the killer whales. I try to make myself feel better about that place by thinking about their conservation efforts.
If you have time, head over to Crystal River and rent a little boat and go out to see the manatees in the wild. That is an incredible experience. We had a Brit with us one time who could not understand Americans attitudes towards nudity. We were in a hotel parking lot by the boat rental place. He decided to change into his swim suit and before we realized what he was doing, he was stark naked in the middle of the parking lot. We all immediately encircled him to try to keep from getting arrested. We gave him a stern talking to, went out on the boat and had a good time. We got back to the parking lot to leave and get into our cars and he stripped right down again to change.
I can't figure out gemela or Todd's WW. I just don't get it. sigh...
What is there not to figure out about my WW?
I've been lurking a bit on this thread -- more the last couple of days -- and I don't understand how she could give up everything with you. Not to give you a big head... but you are obviously better than the average bear. Ask Pio.
Then you know the reason my WW said she had the affair. That was difficult to get past. It's pretty simple really. For thirty years, we were married and soulmates. We both said to each other many times that we were meant to marry each other.
And then she met OM, her true soulmate. She heard stories from OMW, one of her closet friends what a serial predator OM was, and WW still fell for his line of BS. Talk about losing respect for my WW...
I'm a sucker for a man who can talk quantum mechanics. My H can tell you every theory out there about quantum, make a good arugment for the one he believes is closest to being right and explain it in a way that nearly anyone can understand.
However, I hate shopping and only own a couple pairs of shoes and have worn Birkenstocks for nearly a decade in all weather. So, what do I know? Obviously, not fashion.
Shame...what do you have to be ashamed of? Don't know many who can stand alone abandoned by their best friend and still laugh in the face of a brain tumor! You my friend are either a really good fiction writer or you really are tougher than you give yourself credit for.
The meds...don't be a hero, if you need to take some of the pain and nausea and all that just do it...lots of folks have to juggle and find a happy medium with all the side effects and interactions but you are intelligent enough to figure it all out. You should get yourself a 7day 4 slot pill box and deal them all out so they are all set and you don't have to play with the bottles all the time
Sounds like the infidelity store had a close out sale and we were all there to shop!
Uggghhhh, I'm sorry you are having a tough day...at least you are in good company! Sometimes I go hour by hour and feel like a total nut since at one minute I feel at peace and then the littlest piece of info or glimpse of something or a song will set me off. I don't know which is worse separation or having it up in your face...guess it depends on the weather
Pio et al., Read some of your link and see that you have gone through many phases which as horrible as it is comforts me to know I'm not totally crazy or we all are. It makes me sad for you to have had to go through it and sad for me cuz I'm at least 6 months behind you...
I think you are putting too much into the OM...I think it is more what gemela is missing or seeking that she no longer has with you...blondie could be anyone, he just happened to be a convenient and willing party. Maybe gemela needs the gushing, admiration and reassurance? Maybe it was a drastic change from you the responsible, quick witted and intelligent man and made her feel young, free and silly and she liked it?
This is the one thing I learned about H...doesn't really matter who the OP is it is what they do for him and how they make him feel that keeps him going back for more...
On that note I have a question for anyone willing to offer their .02. My H has been trying to spend more time with family...after I told him my DD1 wanted some alone time with her he took her out. They were gone for about 4 hours and when came back the itinerary didn't make sense. I asked twice and got same answer. DD1 came to me today and said..."promise you won't tell dad..."
Basically he took DD1 to see to OP from work that he spends gobs of time with both of OP are EA to him but he denies EA with them...believe it or not these 2 OPs aren't even the ones our whole house of cards fell over it was 3 other OPs...
DD1 says after they left his workplace that H was on the phone with one of the OPs the entire time he had DD1 shopping. She said he was asking her about what would match etc etc. She begged for me not to tell H about this.
What do you do in this sitch? He is feeding into these OPs attachment to him and I have clearly told him he does this and he at times admits and other times denies. He is taking me out tomorrow but I question everything and feel if he is just throwing me some bones while he cake eats on the side. He has so many OPs with inappropriate relations in my opinion and I don't see much except decreased time spent with OP to show for his trying. It's only been a week since he's "tried" so maybe I am impatient. I do want total transparency and him to change all his inappropriate relations back into professional but he states that unless he changes jobs it will take time to wean them all off.
He has offered to change jobs twice but this is about him and his issues not OP so if he changes jobs he is apt to develop other inappropriate friendships whereever he goes unless he starts to change his behavior. I know this from past track record. I am seriously afraid that if and when he turns around I will be stone cold Steve Austin!
Wow, sorry, I didn't realize how nauseated I was that I puked this all out...please accept my humble apology!
You my friend are either a really good fiction writer or you really are tougher than you give yourself credit for.
Isaac Asimov said that fantasy is fiction that cannot happen.
No, I am not writing fiction or fantasy, although the circumstances sometimes cause me to think it is a bad dream from which I will awake someday.
Through this ordeal, WW has never once asked me how I feel, how did the doctor's appointment go, or any of the like. When I was in the hospital, she complained about the "long drive" to the hospital to visit me. It is five minutes from our home. And when she was with me at the hospital one night, I asked her to walk the halls with me since doc wanted me up to keep the blood going. Of course, not just me but IV and "bags". We made one loop around the nurse's station and she walked back to the room. I eventually followed and asked her why she left me. Her reply: she was embarrassed.
You know what is so crazy? The day that I received the first of my ongoing treatments, I foolishly imagined she would show up to be there with me. It is a grueling experience. They fit this head frame to my head with screws. Yes screws. Then an MRI, always pleasant, to pinpoint where the brain is so they don't waste any more gray matter than they have to. Then get blasted and wait around to get blasted again and then wait around to get blasted again.
But then, she couldn't be seen in the corridors with that messy head frame on my head. People might point and talk.
As far as us getting back together, it will not happen. I am done. I still love her and can't help my feelings. Over time, I will get over her. It will be difficult for me to trust another human being again. Not fair, but true.
Forgive me; I am usually a positive person. Here I am wallowing in my own pity.
I am sorry, I am all too familiar with the stereotactic frames...worked neuro in Boston long ago in an other life...they are so barbaric for such advanced technology...it used to pain me to watch the whole screws to the skull without anything but a bit of lidocaine...who are these people that develop these methods...oh yeah probably winning nobel prizes for medical advancement
Obviously your wife was totally wrapped up in herself...good thing you are mentally sound and physically tough enough to withstand her torture...
Seeing as you were a seminarian I should point out that even as strong and loving as Peter was he totally went into self-preservation mode knowing that Christ was most likely going to be suffering. Not to say that these are on the same level but even great people when threatened by extraneous things can be total jerks. I'm sure I'll take heat for this analogy but it's true...does it make it right...heck no but even back then...stuff happens.
Makes our reliance on God even greater. I personally feel like this whole thing is an attempt to show me that I am at the same level in my relationship with God that my son is with me...remember my light bulb moment when I was saying that love isn't about always getting what you want when you want it? I feel like I should have the same relationship and intensity, frequency and duration with God no matter whether things are going well personally or not. I am ashamed to say that is not the case...I should focus on establishing a new relationship with God and then no matter what happens I will be at peace and find happiness...ok now I feel like Pio gushing
On another note I couldn't help myself and text H telling him that his is attached to the parasites as much as they are to him and either he is trying to spare me or just won't admit to himself...this spurred an unannounced appearance from H just to find out what was up!!! I did not betray my DD1 and just listened to H ramble aloud how I just out of the blue throw out these wild pitches just to get him going...
Pool time...hang in there Todd...will check back later,
I have this visual of you walking the halls with your frame and IV poles...from your described stature I can see the sadness but with your sense of humor think of it as fright night, monster mash, frankenstein returns...put a flip to it and next time make up your face so you really look the part...you'll send people flying and I am one sick individual cuz LOL with tears as I type this...I hope you too find humor and are not offended...just trying to cheer you up in my sick medical way!
Everyone needs to take the time to feel bad for themselves sometimes -- especially when things are as lousy as they've been for you. This may seem silly, but I think that sometimes we need to let ourselves completely wallow in our pain and misery and then we can pick up and carry on. If you don't occasionally let yourself feel the force of your suffering, it kind of lurks in the background. It helps to purge it out. The trick is to climb out of the pit afterwards.
I don't know what happened to your wife and why she'd act that way. It certainly has nothing to do with you. It has to be something deep within her that is broken and seeing you so ill probably brought it out -- that and her creepy friends.
I can't tell you how impressed I am with you. I know those are just words and I can't really express my admiration for you on all sorts of levels. You should feel good about who you are. You can learn a lot about a person from these words on a screen. I'm sure that your friends and other family members are proud of you and happy to be part of your life.
Ok... enough of dwelling on this stuff. I'm sure Pio's situation coming to a head has brought up all kinds of feelings for you. I hope he gets some things resolved on this trip for the sake of his girls.
I have never lacked self esteem or conidence. Although we were dirt poor, I realized early on that I had something going for me. Under the circumstances, my parents did an excellent job. My father's key teaching was honesty. My mother's was respect for others and math and science. She had only a HS education but she is the smartest woman I have ever known. And the strongest for that matter.
I have to confess something here. All the stuff about not understanding metaphors was a joke. It started with an email from Pio and cascaded from there. In HS, I was nominated for the Governor's Honor Program in math, science(duh) and English. Every English and Lit teacher from the eighth grade through HS graduation told me I should be a writer.
As to WW, I can look back on life changing events that ocurred that surely knocked her off dead center. A couple of years before she started her affair, her mother died. On the day of her mom's funeral, I received the call that my mother had died. The year before her A began, our youngest son went off to college.
However, I can point to setbacks in my life as well and I didn't choose to have an affair. I think the key differentiating factor is whether the person seeks internal or external validation. If one seeks validation from another person, they are affair material. I don't say this to be judgmental; only to make the point that my WW and I had both gone through some fundamental life altering events, and we had our unique reaction to them.
What I don't know, and it doesn't really matter anymore, is whether OM is in love with WW or not. He is a serial predator and at least in the beginning, he saw WW as another notch in his belt. As I have said, she is very easy to love. At least she was before her A. Since then, she has become a monter.
If they are both in love with each other, there is a quandry for her. I exposed her A to our three sons, her family, my family and friends. Two of our sons have already disowned her. The third has told her that if she sees OM again, that he will disown her. She is going be a victim of the Latin double standard. When her father dies, she probably will not be permitted to attend his funeral.
Infidelity is ugly. It has unintended consequences. I am a peaceful, easy-going person under normal conditions. Get me riled up and I am a formible foe. Victim or benefactor of my neighborhood growing up.
Some of those change of life things do seem to lead to an affair. My MIL died about 2 years before the affair and my wife had just gotten into a full time job (which she found hard to get after being a SAHM for 9 years).
Well, I cannot sleep so here is a moment in science and math history.
Carl Friedrich Gauss was a German mathematician and physicist of notable stature. When he was seven years old, his teacher instructed the class to write down the integers from one to one hundred and add them. As his fellow students worked to write down all the integers, little Gauss had the sum instantly.
How did he do it? He noticed that a consistent pairing of numbers produced the same sum throughout the one hundred numbers. Specifically, the numbers at either extreme and ratcheting from there.
So, 100+1=101; 99+2=101; 98+3=101; 97+4=1 and so on and so forth. He then reasoned that there are fifty such combinations. So, the answer is 101*50 or 5,050.
Hello ToddAC you don't know me but I follow this thread, since Pio has been like a mentor to me for a couple months now.
Something you wrote that makes a lot of sense but leaves me really... scared... or in deep doubt at least.
Quote:------------ I think the key differentiating factor is whether the person seeks internal or external validation. If one seeks validation from another person, they are affair material." ----------------------
My H has validation from me, always had... but I don't count because, his words "You don't count, because you love me, who love's the ugly sees the beauty".
So I can't see him getting the validation or admiration he needs coming from me.
Do you think there's any chance of recovery with such spouse?
Hope yu don't mind asking this question here.
Edited to add, I am the BW, married for almost 13, happy M till 2-1/2 years ago when H started having EA's, PA's and ONS, for 2 years till d-day last January. Two girls same age as Pio I think.
Can I ask you what you meant when you said I had separated myself from the miasma that WW created? I have thought about that since last night. I was just wondering. It kind of has me worried.
I now see WW in a totally new light - and she has on the wrong kind of makeup for it.
Do you know how farging chatty you people are on the weekend?
Not only did I have to search and search for the particular question...I THEN had to remember what the heck I wrote LAST WEEK!
Sheesh. And we are having a survey on karst cave crickets tonight (and other nights this week) that I am helping prepare for....
We're trying to figure out what would entice the danged critters out of their caves...I mean, I know what would do it for me...but I don't think a bottle of Arrogant Ba$[censored] Ale would do it for a bunch of invertebrates...I seriously doubt their palate has refined past Coors Light....
Anyone wanna help count cave bugs?
What I meant, dear man, is that you are very visably disentangling yourself from Gemla's self imposed misery (miasma). I say self imposed because she CHOSE this for herself...You, however, are choosing NOT to follow her into her swampy wallow.
For that, for you saving yourself and your daughters from riding that particular train to he11, you are getting a few thumbs up from someone who wishes she'd removed herself from the miasma sooner....THE MOMENT I removed myself and took back the control is THE MOMENT I regained clarity of mind.
My SIL and BIL, their niece who lives in Paris with her French husband and their little bilingual girls have just been here for dinner. Rob had a day off today and cooked all the dinner and my SIL brought the rest of the food.
I have been speaking French to the little girls. One of them said to me "I speak ENGLISH" in a very haughty voice. It was fun.
Todd, I was a little embarrassed and felt a little silly. I knew you were only joking about the metaphor thing but I got carried away and then felt very silly. I felt that you and Pio were laughing at me in your e-mails.
Put it down to PMS. I'm a different human when I have PMS and I have pre-menopausal PMS which I think is worse than ordinary PMS.
I just know that my eyes pricked with tears of humiliation, and I don't really know why, when I read that you and Pio were having a little "in" joke that I sort of got caught up in.
I had a very small inkling how it felt when I betrayed you all (including Rob).
Todd, I was a little embarrassed and felt a little silly. I knew you were only joking about the metaphor thing but I got carried away and then felt very silly. I felt that you and Pio were laughing at me in your e-mails.
Jen,
Sorry, I should have been more clear(clearer?). The email conversation Pio and I had goes way back to a couple of months ago. For some zany reason, I have continued to claim that I am no good with metaphors. It all started when Pio asked me if a metaphor was the same thing as an analogy. It went downhill from there.
But during the time you and I were posting about the Old Man and Swept Away, he and I were silent on the issue. He prolly rolled his eyes at me wondering how long I would carry on.
I had a really nice and supportive post last night that I thought made it our to the board but it appears to have gone to the virtual black hole.
Oh, well it had some sarcasm and support for Todd and general jabber...been having tough w/e so limited interaction. I tend to isolate when I am hitting the wall.
KiwiJ., just don't worry about the twins inside jokes...there a probably many that go straight over my head or out my ears...I am intelligent and yet at times I still feel like I have a room temp IQ around them, but that's the lure for me...I like to try and figure out what the heck they are talking about! OK, I'll stop talking about you guys like you are not in the room. KiwiJ. and I will have to go to the virtual winery and continue this discussion!!!
Todd, how's the mirco oven treatment going for you? Been thinking of all you tolerate and how you must harass the medical staff and spew sarcasm and geekspeak at them all the whilst they torture you. Seriously, have you had the same folks treating you for a while or do you end up with a bunch of different people all the time. If you have a consistent group they must be very attached to you.
I wonder how many times P has vomitted on the spinning rides? I'm sure the girls are in their glory. I think the return from WDW will be difficult, I know it would be for me.
I finished early today. I was much too nauseated to do much. The staff changes since I go M-F and I think most work three, twelve hour shifts and then off four days. There are some who still work the standard eight hour day, five days a week.
I actually take it easy on them. I mean, after all, they could get me back at any time.
I hardly think that you have a room temperature IQ btw. As for Pio, I have an advantage over him. I know his IQ; he doesn't know mine. I don't want to embarass him. Of course, if I took an IQ test today, I would prolly score a 60 or so. My brains feel scrambed.
Hate you having to deal with the evil nausea:( Maybe you can get some sleep...take some antiemetic and crash if you can. I don't believe for a minute that you spare the staff.
Have you tried any alternative medicine/therapy for the side effects of the tx? Accupuncture, meditation, yoga? Just wondering...any involvement with a support group outside of the infidelity support?
Of course we all know laughter is one of the best medicines so I'm sure you are in louse-withdrawal! Are your sons around to give you a hand? I'm a wuss and don't think I could do as well as you...I hate people around me or touching me when I feel bad...
Maybe you should give us some nausea metaphors to cheer you/us up and demonstrate to Kiwi your real gift???? We can do a one-up on the previous one...
2much, "louse withdrawal" - now wouldn't that be paradox? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I also admire my H intensely. When I came home from work last night, dog tired and knowing we were having company, I came home to a spotless house, music playing, chips and dips on the coffee table, the table set properly, dinner cooked, a huge fruit salad made for dessert. It was like being at a dinner party in my own house.
That man is WONDERFUL and I thanked him profusely. I was too tired to thank him "properly" but rest assured he will be rewarded. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
OK, now I'm jealous of your H...you are sooooooo lucky. I'm sure it took work to get where you are at. I would like to be there some day...once upon a time I used to come home to a spotless house and happy kids...not usually a meal. Times have changed drastically. It is my vision that we share everything thoughts, passions, workloads, house chores etc. I need to work on inspiring the vision eh?
I hope Todd is resting comfortably...it stinks to be nauseated and sick...wish we could do a drive by and bring him some magic remedy.
I was LOL when Believer posted and then said she initially wrote Toad...don't know why that struck a laughter not in me and am in tears right now!
Wonder how WDW is treating Pio and co. I could go for some cotton candy and a set of mickey ears. I shamefully admit I used to watch the Mouskateer club:)
2much, no training required. He's always been FANTASTIC at support and helping out.
We only had this week to see my SIL's niece and family, they'll be back in Paris by the weekend, so he OFFERED to cook dinner etc. etc. He decided to make lasagne and I always make my cheese sauce from scratch. He asked at the grocery store if there was a way to make cheese sauce from a packet. He told the guy that he had to make it to his wife's (me) standard. The grocery guy said "oh ******", laughed and pointed him to the packet sauces.
That is awesome! I am a pretty decent cook but never like to eat what I've made after smelling and testing it throughout the cooking process. I stink at baking though...only do it during holidays and special events...way too much attention to detail for me...that's what others are paid for...much rather pay the bakery then struggle over the oven.
I do it for the kids who lllooovvee to create a mess and lick every possible utensil used to create the delite!
I have a galley kitchen now which makes for a bad scene trying to cook with 3 kids helping...my H calls it a one butt kitchen! Oh well...at least we have fun making a mess, unfortunately I am the clean up crew.
Hope Todds doing ok, makes me worry when there is no banter. I'm headed off to dream land, have a good one you spoiled ole gal!
BigK you never replied to my beer in Australia post.
That is, my "you don't have beer in Australia" post.
Todd did you see I lost my dot. I was playing around being SoylentKiwiJ yesterday and when I went back to my old name they said I couldn't have a dot. They said that people with nonalphawhotsit names could be "spoofed".
That made me LMAO. Like we can't all be spoofed anyway.
I thought I put a prayer request in last night but maybe I didn't hit enough returns.
Please pray for my family...myself and 3 children were in a horrible car accident Wed ..me and the girls got out of hospital last night but DS still in hospital. Life can change in an instant and it has for us. We are all so blessed to have survived. Updates later.
Todd hope you are hanging in there with your nausea...I was thinking of you as I was heaving from morphine:) so much more fun with broken ribs!!!!
BigK, 2much has been in a terrible car accident. You must have missed her post. Your post could be read as a little on the insensitive side. I thought when I read it you were referring to 2much's post and my mouth dropped open.
LOL, Todd and SC, when people like us are the last bastion of sanity, you've got to wonder if there's any hope left in the world.
I do know why this thread and Idiotville and t&l's thread and Graycloud's thread are bastions of sanity though. We delve past our situations and treat each other as people. Long may it continue.
Right now it's pouring with rain and I'm looking at holiday websites for us to do a North Queensland (Australia) trip in about September. We've been talking about it for a long time and I'm really enjoying looking at all the lovely apartments.
BTW Sydney, Australia is 2 and half hours away by plane. It actually costs less to get to Sydney than it does to get to the southern most tip of New Zealand.
Todd, most Americans have never heard of New Zealand or, if they have heard of us, think we're attached to Australia in some way. NOT IN MY LIFETIME BUDDY. (That was for BigK)
Although, we seem to be getting a higher profile since LOTR and the America's Cup. We have a lot of American students at the university. They love the outdoor lifestyle.
Hi All, thanks for the prayers...I chucked at BK's post about falling asleep at the wheel...mine was even worse...major collision with ....yep, an AMBULANCE. My car totalled. I am home with the girls and DS still in hosp. H staying with him. H the only one not in the car. My DD's are doing well, stayed in hosp 36 hours just bruised. It was sad b/c I was taken to a level 1 trauma center and the kids were taken to a Children's hosp so I never got to see them until afer I was discharged.
I am hanging in there takin care of business with my leg sewn together, broken ribs and mult contusions. I had a concussion and was talking like Todd there for a while:)
My DS is getting a bit better each day. We are just so blessed to be alive, I tell you.
I'm sure the ride with me would top any WDW ride Pio and the girls took!!! Have to have a sense of humor. My glasses and most favorite flip flops were casualties as well. They cut my brand new Vic Secret bikini off of me and I had only worn it once!!!!! Can you believe the nerve:)
I was so brain fried that when my neighbors brought me home I was thanking them for cleaning my house...they were embarrassed b/c they didn't do it...that's right, I did it the day of the accident but had no recollection!!!
Todd, I think there is some direct relationship between the amount of force that impacts the skull and an equivalent amount of microwaves...both cause brain cell death.
How's the nausea??? Hope it's better.
Thanks everyone for keeping my family in your prayers...we still need it. Long road of recovery ahead.
I knew the BJ Thomas song but not the BeeGee's one and I love the Bee Gee's. Try another.
We want to share Honest John with you!! Let alone the approaching Abbott & Costello show !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
we are generous aren't we!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Sorry to hear about the accident. As you said, it's good fortune that everyone is still alive. Wow, that is scary though.
Okay another song.
can think of younger days when living for my life Was everything a man could want to do. I could never see tomorrow, but I was never told about the sorrow.
And how can you mend a broken heart? How can you stop the rain from falling down? How can you stop the sun from shining? What makes the world go round? How can you mend a this broken man? How can a loser ever win? Please help me mend my broken heart and let me live again
My DS was d/c today and came home!!! I was so happy. Thank you all for your prayers. The kids are all so tough. DS has a cast, black eye and so many bruises and yet is still laughing and happy. I feel like a train wreck but am holding together quite well. Did cry when I went to the tow company and removed my possessions from my poor vehicle...she did a great job for us though considering most of the injuries were related to seatbelt use and not from collision damage. 80% of the injuries were from the seatbelts.
Todd, how are you? I know you are missing Pio. I'm sure he is in WDW overload by now.
KiwiJ., how's work going post-boss talk? It's been about a week hasn't it?
I will be consumed the next week between police investigating the collision, insurance, attorney's etc. Can hardly wait, not to mention all of the follow-up medical appointments for the 4 of us. Should be busy right up until school starts for the kids. DS has to drop soccer but he doesn't seem too upset.
Not alot of M recovery since we've been concentrating on other things. H supposedly out looking for vehicles. I'll fill in on other details that I'm sure Todd will enjoy most at a later time. Can't think about it now or I'll be upset. It is amazing the lengths OPs will go to just to score points with WS's...
Great news that your DS is home. He will be a hero among his friends; I mean, come on, cast and black eye!
I imagine you will be busy. Take care.
Quote
Todd, how are you? I know you are missing Pio. I'm sure he is in WDW overload by now.
I'm missing tostitos like I miss poison ivy. You have no idea how much he pesters me via email! It's like a vacation for me as well, except I don't have to stand in the hot sun all day waiting to board little kiddie rides. Yes, been there, done that more times than I can remember.
2much, I'm so pleased to hear you are all (reasonably) ok. Like Todd says, your DS will be a hero at school. I hope this brings you and your H closer. These things have a way of doing that.
I can understand how Pio would keep pestering you by email, Todd. He keeps t/jing this thread.
It's kinda ironic. Pio used to complain about Idiotville and how it just kept going and going, but Idiotville started exactly the way this thread did. A few people talking, then more and more people and it just grew and grew.
Most of his emails ask me what should he post next. For all his scientific knowledge, creativity is not his strong suit. He will change an occasional word here and there but typcally takes my emails and pastes it in one of his many threads with his many nom de plumes.
Hi 2Much - Glad I didn't offend with the asleep at the wheel thing. It's just an expression we use here. When Jen and Believer rubbed my nose in it I edited it out as I certainly didn't want to upset anyone.
You have been quiet. Please update when you have a moment. Hope all is okay.
Question to others in TKO: what is it about MB principles that they have to be defended like Custer's last stand? Aren't they strong enough to withstand whatever onslaught comes their way?
Hello everyone, Hangin in there...not so good a day today trying to coordinate all the kids appt's and get a rental car, deal with insurance company, go get all my belongings out of my totalled vehicle etc.
Kids had a tea party to go to today so they had some diversion. They are being so good about all this and trying to help me out as much as they can as well.
We keep taking our Motrin around the clock and doing our normal thing as best we can. My son is very disturbed about his eye, you would think it would be like a trophy but he is very unique so...
BK, no I did not fall asleep...accident was a collision with an ambulance while both vehicles were proceding thru an intersection. The incident is under investigation so can't really make any comment except that we are very lucky to be alive and most thankful of our 2cnd chance.
KiwiJ., I am hoping this will bring H closer...time will tell. I have been very forgiving of events as they have occurred in the past but don't feel like this 2cnd chance is an excuse to sweep evetything under the carpet. He has stated he is trying to "clean things up but it is going to take some time". It has been somewhat trying since I feel very alone going through all of this with the kids being involved; he was with them in the hospital while I was at the trauma center and as soon as we were all back at home he had to return to work. He is actually going out of town for 2 days this week, which is probably good since I am angry and would most likely direct it his way. There is not much he can do to help me since I have to handle all of the business aspects myself (most companies refuse to speak to anyone but the policy holder and I coordinate all of the childrens medical care). It just stinks that his OPs were sitting at my kids bedside while I was laid up in another hospital, they have sent the kids gifts and are all worried about H but where were they before my kids near death experience? They were the OPs keeping my H from his kids, not worried that he was married or had kids never offering to do anything as a family, these were the people booking appointments on Mother's day, Father's day, my kids birthdays etc. enabling him to stay awway from us so...I am a tad bitter and resentful of their material items that are geared toward my H and not toward helping the family. The are not the cause but definitely contributors to my H's fog behavior. Maybe I'm being ungrateful but it's not like anyone is offering to cook dinner or take us to our appt's...that's where my friends come in...they have been absolutely awesome so I am blessed in that respect. Enough of my pity party...just lots of pent up anger and frustration from the M and now the accident on top of all of it is like the icing on the cake. Any suggestions on how I can incorporate H into the solution. Do I give him specific tasks to help or let him try and figure it out? I am still doing his laundry! Do I need to come out and say...honey do you think you might be able to do the laundry for the next week or so???? I feel like there are some things you just shouldn't have to ask for...
Todd, How are you???? Glad you are enjoying your vacation from your evil twin!!! I think MB principles are challenged so much b/c we want things to be the way we want them and when the principle doesn't fit our need/desire/situation then we take issue with the principle not with ourselves or our situation. I think it's alot like interpreting law or biblical principle...we like it to be like Burger King "have it your way, have it your way..." JMHO
Thank you for the update. It does indeed sound like y'all were very lucky.
Hope everyone continues to heal and recover very quickly.
Hey, for DS, you might try some Clearsil. He may need it during his teen years, although it seems to work better for some than others. I tried it in my teen years. I ate a tube every day for three weeks and it made no appreciable difference. Also, left a bad aftertaste in my mouth.
Hi guys Im in a hurry, and Im on risk to call OM.. (last one) He called me some days ago.. I was on quiet and that call moved deep feelings inside me.... Im confussed..
IF you want your marriage to survive, do not call him. It is an addiction and you need to break your addiction. Stay busy and keep your mind on other things.
Do not be confused. Do not call. Remain quiet. If you want to recover your marriage drop it like a bad habit...go cold turkey...sing at the top of your lungs, clean your house, change your oil, do anything to get your mind off OM. Do something good for yourself...each time you think of OM do 10 push-ups or 25 sit-ups. Discipline yourself...it will get easier in time. Do not call or make contact!!!! You can do this, it's a mind game that our bodies allow us to be confused with. You have control, you can make the choice to put an end to this. We are rooting for you. Get away from the phone:)
he is not married... he is single.. I never understand why a man like him is still single... Im keeping busy,,, but its hard... I called my H and he said "what happen?" why I can speak with my H and with OM I spent hours speaking.. I know its a mistake to even think in OM but Im in grieg I thought.. I havent pass this process, because all thing happened too fast.. I was worry about my H, we lived too much things and OM in my mind was as blocked... Heard again his voice,, and he know how to speak,.,,, Im stupid right? I know,,, I need to stop think in this.... Its hard but Its the best for me and my family.. my H doesnt deserves this...
Try not to compare OM and H...2 different worlds, one still fantasy since you haven't lived through trials and challenges and been in the real world together. You have been through these things with your H. Only you can decide if you want to recover your M...it sounds like your H is willing to try recovery right?
It is probably wonderful to have someone speak to you in kind words and treat you like you feel you should be treated but it is still very superficial...has your H been there through hard times, has he comforted you in times of need, been a shoulder for you to cry on and picked you up when you were down? Do his actions speak on their own and not require fancy pleasantries?
I don't know, I am only asking. I sure wouldn't want to be compared to the OWs b/c I have had children, cleaned vomit, picked up dog waste, been through all of the rough times and have been seen at my worst as well as my best. My H has only seen the OWs in their best, they only show what they want to be seen and my H most likely only shows his best side. I would like to take a video of some of our rough times and give it to them and say, how'd you like him now???? But he only treats them like they are princesses b/c it's a selective...you see where I am coming from?
WOW 2much - an accident at an intersection - I guess at least the Ambulance wasn't moving too fast? You are so lucky. I hope you are having a better day.
Well I called him but he wasnt at home, affortunately, person who answered phone asked me to call later,, but I didnt do it.. I thought that God, help me,, and even I failed, and I called him, he wasnt there.. gooood for me.... I felt bad with myself, as a looser, I was sad, but not because I didnt find OM, I was because I felt again, I wasnt able to control myself, and I called him.. Anyway, I tried to see to the future, and I ran to the gym and I felt much better after doing some exercise..
About bad times and sharing this with my H, its difficult to explain but I havent felt support in my bad times.. This issue is not new, this is an issue from some long ago.. When I was diagnosticated an illness and my humor was bad because of this, my H said, why I should deal with this, Im not guilty of your illness,,,, this was devastaded for me... then I "met" and online man, and he gives me support, and at least he listened to me... Anyway , I understand the main idea.. and yes, you are right. Its not same environment, and I should not to compare OM wiht my H.. and I fact I need to write that phsycically my H is more goodlooking than OM... and this is difficult, but I felt with more emotional connection with OM than with my H... but physically my H is much much better... and there are days that I realize that my H can met someone else, and I need to be careful and try to fillin all his needs...
[color:"yellow"] [/color] Hi guys, Sorry it has been a while. I am having issues. So angry and frustrated. Basically have been going thru all of the post-accident stuff alone. Making all the kids appt's, my medical issues,taking them to doctors, insurance issues, attorney issues, rental car, looking for new car etc. Even asked H if someone could be with me yesterday when the PD was coming to talk to me and serve me citations...never even offered. Never offered me his car, never offered to take me or the kids anywhere, hasn't lifted the first finger to do anything around the house or bring a meal home...so self-absorbed with his work issues actually told me I was selfish when I was pissed that he was out until 0300 helping a work colleague.
I feel like he had the chance to redeem himself and he blew it. The only thing I discovered is that I could do all this alone with the support of my friends. It is so sad.
He is inhabited by aliens right now. One day he will look back and won't be able to believe he behaved so selfishly.
I'm sorry he went the way he's gone. I hoped the trauma to his family might have jolted him but it sounds like he's removed himself emotionally.
I'm so sorry you've had to deal with the aftermath all on your own. It's bad enough having the shock of the accident in the first place. Take good care of yourself and be prepared for "coming down" after everything is taken care of. You're probably still working on adrenalin.
I also hope Todd is ok. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
KiwiJ, I went balistic...I discovered that even at my children's hospital bedside, all the while I was in another trauma center he was on the phone to all of the OW's espc the one he specifically was "trying to back off from". He flat out lied about being in touch and I was only able to figure out a way to explore today...he changed passwords weeks ago so I had been cut off.
I told him he was scum, gave back my engagement ring which is a family heirloom and has tremendous sentimental value to him, told him I was not buying another vehicle that I would be taking the one he was driving as it's in my name and comes out of our joint acct. Basically told him he is on his own and can room in until he gets finances together. He denied nothing and told me I don't need a lawyer that he'll give me whatever I want.
I am so furious I can't see straight. I don't know this person, he disgusts me and I can't stand to breathe the same air. I think he feels like he is doing me a favor by not denying anything. He continues to astound me as he rewrites history trying to convince himself that I have been a bad mother and wife in the past. I told him he could tell himself whatever he needed to in order to allow himself to deal with the destruction and pain he has caused us all. Not to toot my own horn but I've been a great mom despite all of our challenges
I hope I can look back in a year and see this as just a bad day and not the raw painful exorcism of an alien that it feels like now. I am so thankful of my wonderful and supportive children and neighbors and all of you who can give me encouragement.
Thank you all for the hugs and support <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
OMG 2Much. I'm so sorry he's being such an [censored]. (((((2Much))))) I just don't get how aliens can be so cruel. Frank Pittman in Secret Lies says basically the family doesn't even exist to a WS. None of that helps you of course.
Yep, I feel like I'm in a slow motion movie right now. I didn't think it would hurt this much. I have a plan and need to stick with it and not get sucked into any false recovery stuff again. I believe I will do much better once he is gone and I don't have to deal with seeing him. He left last night and didn't come back which I wouldn't care about if he would have at least had the courtesey to tell me. I asked when he was leaving if he would be back and he said yes. He TM'd to say he'd be home this afternoon. It makes me sick to be around him so I think I'll go out when he gets here.
The kids and I are going out of town for a week leaving next Friday so hopefully that will help all of us. I need to move on from this but doubt I'll ever to totally b/c kids will need to be near him. The accident took the last of my reserve so I need to rebuild my walls in order to be able to deal with the next few months.
I am worried about Todd since we haven't heard from him. Maybe when the louse returns the thread will pick back up to it's sarcastic and dry banter. I could really use the diversion.
I have a lot of reading to do and cannot right now. I will check back in tomorrow. Just to say I am back. Gemela is still with me now in Houston after an altercation with the Miami police. I am not a happy camper.
Are they hiding out in Houston do you think? It's not really funny you know. I AM trying to keep a straight, serious face. Do you think they'll be on America's Most Wanted. We get that here but I've never quite understood why. It's not like I'm going to watch it and say "ooooh I know that guy. Better call the cops"
Well, I'm worried. Gemela hasn't had any power where they were living. I hope that the whole vacation isn't ruined. Pio and the girls need a break and some fun.
Todd - I mean she had no power as a woman in that country. If I was going to do something, I would wait till we got to the states, and try to get him arrested. Then I would be free to go to Mexico, with kids in tow.
Oh Todd, I'm just guessing. But we have seen women do some fairly awful things here - when they want to get their way. A lot of times, they bait the BH into a fight, and then lie to get a restraining order to keep him away. Then they are free to continue the affair. Sad.
To the TKO gang: Well.....I managed to 'skim through the whole thread'..... do I get a prize?
....by the way....doing so may make me feel ENTITLED to make a comment here and there....is there another BS in PLAN B land in the mix? ....a 'neutralized' Canadian born in Italy and living in Quebec? ...qui parle italien, français ...and of course.....Shakespeare's tongue..... which at times can be quite obvious.....as my 'language' files get mixed up once in a while...
....will try hard not to put my foot in my mouth....as I don't know all your stories.....and so could get into a lot of trouble!
...you have been warned!
....I am also known for 'lengthy' posts.....so....this will be the thread where I will supposedly try to emulate PEP and ARK^^.....in their brevity and 'to the point' comments.... (how about giving myself a challenge......to see how long can I stick to no more that 10 lines....and you can call me on it!)
Todd has returned from the electric beach!!! How's the tan going? You had us all worried...we thought you succumbed to the waves. Are you still feeling like Mr.Potato Head? I missed your humor and sarcasm...it was much needed over the past days but I've been too busy feeling sorry for myself this week to fit much else in my schedule <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I see the louse has to return and top my drama...typical! I can't wait to hear his adventure since no matter how it was he will detail and narrate so we are all on the edge of our seats. I hope at least they had some fun while away.
What is in Houson...Todd are they making their way toward you to unite the wonder twins???? Perhaps this is a part of the plot?
Kiwi, I have to agree about the power and the geography. I personally could never survive in that culture...I would be stoned the first day or would mysteriously disappear. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Glad to see everyone resurfacing...does that make Pio the glue to the thread? But then Todd says Pio steals all of his good banter and posts as his own...
Happy to have a diversion folks. Keep the humor coming <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
....I am also known for 'lengthy' posts.....so....this will be the thread where I will supposedly try to emulate PEP and ARK^^.....in their brevity and 'to the point' comments.... (how about giving myself a challenge......to see how long can I stick to no more that 10 lines....and you can call me on it!)
Okay, Tolstoy...
2much,
how are you and the kids?
A careful examination of the record will show that Pio had no sense of humor until he met me. All kidding aside.
I hope he posts soon. Curiousity is getting to me.
Well, Friday was the last day for my treatments. Dont' think I could take anymore. I am supposed to feel side effects for weeks if not months.
Todd- so glad your tx are over! Almost like the gift that keeps on giving eh? Hopefully the worst is over for you as far as side effects go. Can't speak to the brain lapses as I suspect you may have had some pretumor issues in that dept??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
The kids and I are sore but bouncicng back quite well. Oodles of MD appt this coming week so hopefully some of life will be getting back to normal. I am just so frustrated between H and all the legal stuff with this MVA. I don't feel it was my fault but the township is pointing the finger at me and charging me with all fault. I just want to get the whole thing over with and move on so I may just pay up and move on but I am such a stickler for integrity and principle of the thing that I detest even doing that as it is just as much an admission of guilt. I know I should be thrilled to have us all alive and shouldn't sweat the small stuff so....
I think Todd that my H must have had a cyber class from your WW on how to treat people who are/have been hospitalized. He totally passed with flying colors...A+ for the total insensitivity and disregard for pain/suffering...the hardball game began 48 hours ago so we'll see how many innings it goes...my guess is extra-innings.
Yes...I can see the Pio made for TV miniseries now...definitely not Fantasia...
Did you see the thread about the WS billboard...made my day, if you haven't peeked please do it is too funny regardless of who you are in the infidelity scene...speaking of which Todd are you sleeping and eating these days???
KiwiJ.- been thinking about our virtual wine tasting again...I've been settling for cheap Chardonnay these days since I'll be paying out the nose for my citations I'm sure and my DS1 and DS2 have b-days in the next 2 weeks!
DS1 is planning all kinds of fun treats that we have to make...fudge, strawberry shortcake, cookies on a stick, homemade popsicles...it should be fun! I feel bad for kids btwn accident and what is going on with H makes very difficult...may get them into fam counseling if things escalate.
Luna-I am most long winded so don't worry I'll take most heat...definitely not known for brevity but if you met me that's what you'd love...all the great stories and humor. I crack myself up frequently just thinking them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
...just had a thought.....although I never actually got through reading Leo's ANNA KARENINA....not exactly a short story...I have seen a couple of movie versions.....I would put this as recommended reading for WS's..... the infidels are no 'happy campers' at the end!
quote:------------------------------------------------- My memory is foggy. -------------------------------------------------------
Are we losing you to the 'other side'? .....uuhmmmmm..... this is where not fully knowing your stories doesn't help......not sure which side you were on to begin with, Todd......BS, WS, FBS, FWS? ... I am just assuming you are/were a BS..... I will apologize in advance were this to be an incorrect assumption on my part
Clarification...quotes DO NOT count in my limit of 10 lines.... it's tough as it is!
IPRC???? What decision-making body does this refer to? ....I would be more than happy to make my case.....
Todd.....since you pretty well know where I stand (given info. in my signature line...) can't really say the same for you.....with your Winston Churchill line......
...may I humbly request a link to your 'thread'....just to catch up and be on even ground.....as I suspect all the 'others' around here know your story.... I would like to be 'sensitive' to your experience when expressing myself...... personally....I have classified myself as a 'basketcase' BS soon after D-day.....enough for PEP, having found me to be a real 'challenge' to say the least, to consider throwing in the towel and 'leave' MB....by her own admission.... I am glad she didn't..... and, as you can see, I have SURVIVED!
Todd, IPRC???? What decision-making body does this refer to? ....I would be more than happy to make my case.....
Why, the International Posting Rules Committee. What cave have you been in? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Todd.....since you pretty well know where I stand (given info. in my signature line...) can't really say the same for you.....with your Winston Churchill line......
Well, I haven't had a thread here in a long time. I could never get "traction" here at MB. Prolly because I don't completely buy the tenets of Plan A. Blasphemy!
Here's the Readers Digest version: WW had LTA with neighbor ("real soulmate") because she "thought I was dying". I have a brain tumor hence my playing in the microwave for a few weeks. Anyway, Plan A, she broke NC ten times. Ten was my limit. I moved out in March and currently in Plan D. Married 36 years, three wonderful "adult" sons, lol.
I learned a valuable lesson: R is a two person process. Trying to do it alone is like playing tennis by yourself. Sure it feels good for a while, but you get tired of waiting for the ball to return.
Last Russian book I read was "The Brothers Karamazov". Depressing book but then....
When Tolstoy was a boy, he and his brother formed a club. To be initiated into the club, a prospective member had to stand in the corner and not think of a white bear for thirty minutes.
Wasn’t there a guy called Traiconado somewhere on a sand-dune with a marital problem? He morphed into a Poijitos and is now on the run from the Florida police in Houston?
Todd, I think the microwaves are affecting us all….
....the naive....fully-trusting mate.....cave.....that's how I ended up being a BS! ....geesh....Todd....36 yrs?...WOW!
.... «I have a brain tumor hence my playing in the microwave for a few weeks» .....
sorry to hear that...and.....how are things?......
"The Brothers Karamazov"???? ....that's pretty HEAVY stuff! ...personally....I would go for reruns of the 'three stooges'.....
....just recently got cable (yeah.....I was literally in a cave on that issue).... my DS10 had very convincing arguments.....but I told him 'buddy you are pushing your luck' when he tried to 'negotiate' compensation for the last four years that he has missed out 'discussing' Yu-gi-oh with his friends!...good thing he is sooooo adorable......and got hooked on the 'comedy channel'.....YEAH.....TIME WILL WASTED is the word!
Well vacation went pretty well although I have learned that 10 days in Disneyworld is way too much. I never thought it was possible to hate Mickey Mouse but I actually do. DW was not too eventful except for one security incident in which police arrested a woman for trying to ride a specialized mountain bike up Space Mountain. The released a photo of her and I hate to say this but she was the UGLIEST woman I have ever seen. The only other real problem with the trip was that we got on It’s a Small World and the song was deafeningly loud. I was desperate to get off but before we got to the end, there was a mechanical problem so we had to sit in that boat and listen to that drone for over 30 minutes. Although I have no clear memory of the incident, at some point in a blind rage, I apparently ripped the head off a Swiss yodeling mouse. I am now banned for life from that ride. Gemela and I were doing well until 8/7 which was my Dday anniversary adjusted for time zone. I basically said I wanted out and that there was nothing left. For her part, I think she was actually trying to “Plan A” me. I was in a funk for a couple of days and then decided to just be as nice as possible because my pain was about to end – or so I thought.
We flew back to Miami to spend the night. 08/12/2006 04:00 is the last SF I thought I was ever going to have. Still might be. All part of Gemela’s Plan A. As we were leaving the hotel, DD1 started crying and saying she did not want Mommy to leave. We tried to calm her down. We got to the airport and curb checked the luggage for DDs and me and then went to check in Gemela at international. DD1 was crying and telling me she hated me and that she was going with Mommy to Mexico. DD2 said she wanted to go with me and was very calm. As we put WW’s suitcases on the scale, DD1 tried to pull them off. She couldn’t because they weighed 52 lbs each but she tried. She was upset and crying. It was painful. Then we walked over to the X-ray but sat down to talk before we put the bags through to try to calm DD1 down. The airline person told me that she was not happy documenting Gemela with DD1 so upset and that they would not allow DD1 to board a plane if she was so upset. Anyway, as we were talking, she begged me to not send her to Mexico and let her come to Houston with us. I really let loose on Gemela. I told her I never wanted to see her again. I was tired of doing everything she wanted. I needed to start thinking about me. I deserved better than a lying cheating adulterous (w)itch. All really good MB stuff as I am so well known for. I also told her I was sick and tired of hauling her 150 lbs of luggage all around the world. It is obscene what she takes. Nobody travels like she does. I told her she is no longer my problem. She wants to pool boy – she can have him. She is his problem now. She says she has really been trying the last six months since she stopped calling him. I said that was BS. She sat around and moped for a good four months and that maybe only the last two months she has put out any real effort. She agreed. Then I reminded her about the love letters. She said she meant to throw them away. I replied that good intentions pave the road to He!!. Even so, I was thinking maybe we could buy her a ticket and go to Houston. We were not shouting but DD1 was crying and upset. Did I mention I told Gemela that I detested her?
Anyway, things were actually beginning to calm down when Miami police came over to investigate the situation. They asked what was going on and then separated us and questioned us. This took about 30 minutes. Then the police got together and talked and a supervisor got involved. The policeman who questioned me had been betrayed by his wife and was divorced so he was sympathetic. The guy who interviewed Gemela told me I could not take the children with me without Gemela’s permission and she was not willing to give it. He told me she said she wanted to take the girls to Mexico. Later she told me that he misunderstood her. I asked her who was more likely to be telling me the truth. Regardless, we had a problem. So I asked if I bought Gemela a ticket to Houston would that solve their problem and they agreed it would. I did so. Later I told gemela I wanted a divorce and that I hated her and wanted my freedom. I was sick that she had manipulated the situation so much but was just typical. We did not speak much the rest of the trip. I think she is trying to develop a Plan A strategy. I told her today I will buy her a ticket to Mexico any time she wishes. That is where we are. Still together.
I am sure bigger is going to start swinging away with that 2x4 of his. I am not checking emails at the moment from my work account but I will check the hotmail account tomorrow.
[censored], Pio. That really sucks. I thought I had it bad when Toolman called DCF on me. At least the kids were sound asleep during the whole thing, and had a peaceful interview with the DCF worker later.
Going back to my "running" analogy on adrianc's thread. (I won't repeat it) I felt like I could survive as long as I knew it was going to end. Yesterday changed everything for me. Just like the empty water jug at the 3k marker. I am still stuck with WW and cannot now figure out how to get rid of her. The policeman who interviewed her told me that, in his opinion, I should just divorce her and get legal rights for the kids.
I think the airport scene made this all very real to gemela - maybe for the first time.
I think it is more what gemela is missing or seeking that she no longer has with you...blondie could be anyone, he just happened to be a convenient and willing party. Maybe gemela needs the gushing, admiration and reassurance? Maybe it was a drastic change from you the responsible, quick witted and intelligent man and made her feel young, free and silly and she liked it?
Keep in mind.....heard somewhere that when a parent travels alone with kids under 18...and crossing borders.....need to have a letter with permission from the other parent to do so....apparently.... it's to catch cases of parents 'kidnapping' kids without the knowledge of the other parent.....so...you may not be out of the woods on this issue, yet!
....I know.....new kid on the block while you were vacationing......
....is there anyway for the girls not to SEE their mom getting on the plane alone?..... they already KNOW she is doing so....maybe the separation can take place elsewhere...where it will be less heart-wrenching....to avoid some of the 'emotional' escalation of the separation.....uhmmmm....hope you won't be offended.....this could apply to you, too!
Congratulations! You have finally gotten your post-affair marriage out of the rut! Finally you two are progressing!
OK – maybe not the way you expected but purging out the bad is necessary. Finally WW sees YOU have an option other than her. Finally she possibly can see the massive quantity of pain her affair caused. Finally you two are possibly talking together from the same level.
Now that might not lead to R but it could lead to solutions. Remember I once told you that when recovering from affairs relationships sometimes reach a plateau of “no pain” but also no progress? A situation where you can cope and tolerate each other but possibly by not rocking the boat or causing waves? Well – you two just plunged off that plateau.
I just hope you can get out of your funk fast enough to use this opening. I’m not too sure how but maybe a phone session with the Harleys?
BTW – use logic. Regarding cop’s comments on kids: as a father you have as much say on whether they leave with you or her. I think the cop was using misplaced authority to shock you to your senses.
And the comment about “just getting a divorce”. That has always been an option.
I got out of the funk. I am not upset or depressed in the least. But I do feel a strange sense of detachment. I am still willing to work on the marriage and would like to see us stay together. On the other hand I could put her on a plane tomorrow and I don't think I would miss her. It is weird this feeling but it is a good one. Gemela is hauling her own suitcases now. I don't have to carry them anywhere. She says she wants an opportunity to show me she can be a good wife and to win back my affections. I am leaving the ball in her court.
I didn't realize going from Miami to Houston was crossing borders but I forget how much Texans think of themselves so I can see that I was going to another country. The mistake was going to the airport together. In hindsight, I should have sent gemela on one day and then gone myself the day after. On the other hand, was it really a mistake? Only time will tell.
I did want to say that I was brutal in my verbal comments to gemela. Seeing my DD1 crying and reasoning and begging was terrible. I told gemela she owned this all by herself. I asked her if she was happy with what her infidelity had done. I really can't remember all I said but I cut her to the bone and fileted the rest. DD1 asked why I was separating the family. Gemela told her that it was her fault and not mine. She defended me to DD1 at every turn. I did tell her that this was difficult and that I knew neither one of us wanted to hurt the DDs but that was no reason to stay together. She said that is not why she is staying. She said she loves me and wants to be my wife. I asked why she kept a scrapbook of her affair. I offered to take digital photos of my HPV whelps to add to her album.
I have actually thought about taking that photo (suitably censored of course) and putting it beside a photo of OM and framing it and leaving it on the kitchen counter. If gemela does not shape up, I will definitely do it. Kind of a before and after. Gemela is afraid to get too near me right now because she knows she is hanging by a thread. She knows she has no more opportunities. I know it too. Amazing.
lemonman - if you read this, I would like your take as well. I don't know why I do but I do.
Gee...missed a few postings......this is a really 'hot' thread.....never been on one with this much cross-postings!
.....on my PLAN B thread.....often feel I am writing to myself and in no time....it ends up on page 12! .....what can I say..... a PLAN B thread has no DRAMA!..... and I don't plan on creating any just to stay on page 1, either...hahaha......
2much: «I am most long winded»...glad to hear I am in good company
PEP: «brevity is HARDer than it looks !!!» .....that's why you are my IDOL!
Pio: «I didn't realize going from Miami to Houston was crossing borders»
...wouldn't know about that....maybe in the US it also applies to crossing states...but I was actually thinking about when you were planning to go back HOME alone with the girls!
.....looked at cards you scanned.....that's actually how I found out about A....accidentally came across OW's letters to WS that left nothing to the imagination about their encounters.... YEAK!!! ....didn't read them all.....couldn't see 'clearly' after first few..... get a chill up my spine just thinking about that moment.....BBBBRRRRRR!
I see no romance in gemela's affair any more. I see it as a sick abberation. I think I was happier when I respected her affair. Finding those cards was definitely for a reason.
I do wish to defend myself against some accusations made against me by ToddAC. The only two things I ever posted on his advice are two things I wrote to him in email and said I wanted to post but thought better of. He said "go ahead - you're spot on. You should post it". One was to KiwiJ in this forum and another was to Stan-ley in another forum. Both are now semi-infamous. So I have gotten nothing but really bad advice from ToddAC and I see him as a troublemaker.
As far as his microwave treatments go, I see it like microwave popcorn. If you leave the bag in long enough to pop every kernel, some of the part that was good gets turned black. That is the best excuse I can make for ToddAC.
I do wish to defend myself against some accusations made against me by ToddAC.....
.....So I have gotten nothing but really bad advice from ToddAC and I see him as a troublemaker.
I prefer the term instigator.
Quote
As far as his microwave treatments go, I see it like microwave popcorn. If you leave the bag in long enough to pop every kernel, some of the part that was good gets turned black. That is the best excuse I can make for ToddAC.
Interestingly, one of the docs made a similar analogy (metaphor? Simile? Sybolism?)
Only he used a baked potato. Very simply, leave it in too long and it shrivels and dries up. The key is to turn off the wave at the exact right moment. He took a short nap. Remember, he trained for twelve years to learn this stuff. I cannot be responsible for anything I say for a few weeks. Maybe longer.
For his part, the doc did apologize. At least I think he did.
quote:--------------------------------------------------- I was brutal in my verbal comments to gemela....I cut her to the bone and fileted the rest...She said that is not why she is staying. She said she loves me and wants to be my wife....If gemela does not shape up, I will definitely do it. Kind of a before and after.... Gemela is afraid to get too near me right now because she knows she is hanging by a thread. She knows she has no more opportunities. I know it too... ----------------------------------------------------------
....what are you trying to do? ....this doesn't look to me like any plan...although it looks like 'reality' is catching up with Gemela..... and do you really want your WS to 'fear' you? ...you are certainly 'no soft spot' to fall on right now..... what's the message you want to leave her with?
....on one hand you seem to want to see if the 'separation' will be helpful to you and Gemela.... on the other hand you say that she 'has no more opportunities'....which is it?
...sorry...if I don't get it! ..and I don't really have to, either.... if it's clear for you....
I think I mentioned I may be writing a new chapter in the book. I am not on a plan at the moment. That is what is so wonderful. I don't care what happens. I was in Walmart today. A really attractive girl smiled and winked at me. It was nice.
I have put up with one year of Plan A. I am fed up with Plan A. I don't want anyone to fear me. I just want my life back. Whatever that life is.
It is gemela's decision to decide if she wants this marriage. I will accept either option.
Sorry about the T/J. I have been away for a while and forgot KiwiJ's rule.
I am checking robertleecox at hotnail dot com.
Hey ToddAC, I missed you buddy. Glad to see your are still here. Glad the doc fell asleep. I always thought you were a bit half-baked before.
quote:------------------------------------------------- I am not on a plan at the moment...I have put up with one year of Plan A. I am fed up with Plan A...I just want my life back...It is gemela's decision to decide if she wants this marriage. I will accept either option. --------------------------------------------------------
OK...I hear you...
quote:-------------------------------------------------- Sorry about the T/J. I have been away for a while and forgot KiwiJ's rule. --------------------------------------------------------
KIWI: ...as they say: 'when you know better...you do better'.....so what's the rule? ....
Well, somebody called me Mr. Potato Head, whatever that is.
What is so strange, and this is a true story, the day before the doc fell asleep at the wheel, I cooked a potato in the microwave. I cooked it for ten minutes which I discovered later was twice as long as required. It sorta foreshadowed my experience the next day.
Kiwi: «You had to be there. LOL» ....oh....one of those.... by the way.....always wanted to know what LOL stood for... the only thing I could come up with was: Lord Oh Lord.....since you just used it.....can you tell me, kiwi? thanks....
It was I who labeled you Mr. Potato Head...as if you don't know that that is...aren't you American and over age 35???? Didn't everyone own a Mr. Potatoe head in the 60's/70's...they are still around in toy stores today...
Pio...sad but liberating story...had a similar experience just about 72 hours ago using words like scumsucking bottom feeder...conscienceless, disgusting, selfish bast&$^. Returned rings, insisting on financial separation...H buying new car tomorrow as I will be taking over our other vehicle now that I returned my rental tonight...since the accident. Still working out the details, not sure if I am willing to continue trying to work on M...
So are you planning on hooking up with your wonder twin while in the great state of TX???
Lunamare, LOL is laughing out loud LMAO is laughing my a** off ROTFLMAO is rolling on the floor laughing my a** off ROTFLMAOPMP is rolling on the floor laughing my a** off peeing my pants
LOL = laughing out loud ROTFLMAO = laughing even more (rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off
"you had to be there"
Yes I am wondering why nobody commented on the woman with the mountain bike. Especially as it was a Thursday.
Mr. Potato head. That gives me a funny mental image of ToddAC. Mr. Potato Head was a common theme at Disney. Almost every shop had MPH parts (Disney theme of course) to adourn MPH. Pirates of the Caribbean had Jack Sparrow parts. There were Stitch parts. Mickey parts, etc. MPH body sold separately.
Should I mention how much money I have spent on Disney Pin Trading? No. I am too embarassed.
I prepaid my Disney vacation as "all inclusive". Or so I thought. Have I mentioned that I hate Disneyworld? I can't remember.
Hi Pio - Welcome back. Sounds like Gemela is softening to me. Could be wrong of course but I wouldn't be trying to drive her away at the moment if I was you.
I am not trying to drive her away. I am still being a wonderful husband. I did have a day and a half of outburst but that is done and dusted. I am not as warm to her as I had been. It is funny to see how she reacts to that. She is like a moth to a flame. IMHO she is a broken woman.
It's friendly and affectionate rivalry. They think they're God's gift to everything - we know they're not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We have the Southern Cross on our flag, I think theirs is the number of states they have.
Yes I know about the girls. Seeing DD1 so hurt and in tears just infuriated me. I hated WW in that moment. Nobody hurts my DDs and gets away with it.
I believe that gemela knew that if she went to Mexico, our marriage was over. Basically that is what I had told her. I had told her that I knew she would revive the A there and that would be the last straw. She said she wouldn't. I said she was a proven liar. I said all this a few weeks ago. I think she was afraid to go to Mexico.
FWIW I don't think she would revive the A. Seriously, pool boy probably doesn't even remember her. She was an adventure he had while he was away from the gloomy North of England.
Anyway, I have to go. Take care and make sure those girls don't see any more fights.
I owe all this to believer. I think she felt a little guilty but she may have saved this marriage. That and my courage. I say that hunbly but it did take a big leap on my part to get to where we are.
Things have changed. If I get to the airport and gemela's bag is overweight, I will remove enough things to get it back within limits and throw them in the trash. No discussion. Gemela has lessons to learn.
My conundrum for the moment is what to do about the full time maid. I hired her so I could lose gemela. Nowh what do I do? Infidelity - just one problem after another.
The important question I have Pio, is do you have the song, "It's A Small World" still stuck in your head? I had it between the ears for days. The only way I got rid of it was to listen to countless songs by Weird Al Yankovic. Trading one devil for another. What's that saying? Trade the devil you know for one you don't? Something like that.
I guess an affair is the ultimate form of disrespect you can show your partner. No sensible person will suggest a revenge affair to get even. I’ll go a bit further and suggest that you don’t show your wife disrespect in order to get even. Treat your wife with respect – no matter what.
Having the argument was great! You really needed to rip into her. That was good. But enough is enough! Don’t pout or behave as she was a stranger. Like I say – Treat her with respect!
So she has a lot of baggage. Is now the right time to make an issue out of it? Wasn’t she expecting to be some months (or possibly forever) in Mexico? If your end-goal is to get a submissive and demoralized wife then I suggest you have spent too much time amongst the sand-dunes. Go buy her a Hijab.
Look – you are entitled to ONE of two (yes – only two) realistic options. Divorce/separate or reconcile. Neither one can be done half assed. Being able to accept either outcome is great and a good position to start off from BUT you can not reconcile/divorce thinking divorce/reconciliation is fine. You have to go totally committed to either cause and at least for the time being remove the other option from your head.
Now – I’m going to become an armchair psychologist for a minute... This has been suggested previously on one of your threads but... Is your W afraid of transformation? Is she afraid of getting old and unwanted? Is her having an affair with a younger man (toyboy – obviously no realistic future in affair), her need to lug around outfits, makeup and shoes for an army and so on all pointing to a fear of being “ugly” and therefore unwanted? This in turn could indicate confidence or self-aware issues. What is it your W wants out of the marriage? Why is she willing to risk it but is afraid to lose it? Try to get to the bottom of that rather than the bottom of her suitcase.
When we were packing for the airport in Orlando, I told her over and over that she was not allowed any liquids or gels in her carry-on bag. We got to the inspection and she cried as she had to throw away creams and makeup. No matter the circumstances, she never believes that rules apply to her.
I agree with Bigger that there are some big issues here and Gemela's vanity and focus on her appearance is way beyond normal. Pio, I wonder what part you've played into turning her into this prima donna. From watching the interaction between you two, it seems like a deep, meaningful connection is missing.
Although her poolboy was obviously a little [censored], he was probably saying things to her that made her feel loved and wanted -- as transparent as it is to all of us from the outside that he was just using her or that there was no depth...at the time, it probably felt genuine to her and that someone was in love with her and respected her. If you can somehow remove yourself from the infantile nature of her affair and see what it tells you about Gemela, you might be able to find the key to forming a deeper connection with her and a happier marriage for both of you.
I know that you're angry and that you're sick of this whole thing, but I've had this feeling that you are very hard to approach -- especially for a woman like her. If you decide to stay in this marriage, you need to show her a reason to stay with you beyond the country club lifestyle. If she looks at you solely as a way to stay with her girls and maintain her shopping addiction (which seems to bring out the worst in her and make her more self absorbed and more affair-prone), then it looks like a pretty grim future for both of you. You need to show some softness and connect with her -- make her feel loved for herself and become her friend and confidante. Explain to her what you need to recover -- which seems to be honesty and answering all the questions about the affair to begin with. Then, start talking openly with each other and explore what this has taught you about yourselves and each other. She needs to trust you with her feelings and not feel degraded and ridiculed.
My biggest concern is what you two are doing to your girls. I know you're bright and that you're a big boy, but you two have got to get this under control. This damage to your kids is permanent and it has to stop. The way you can repair as much as possible, is for them to see you two develop a real relationship and see their mom blossom. There has to be more to her than this obsession with her appearance. I'd try to help her to discover what it is, so that she can become a better person who can set a good example for your girls and who can become secure and happy enough to age gracefully in a mature relationship.
While I agree with Pio should not treat G with *ongoing* disrespect, it needs to be recognized that Pio has carried out a decent Plan A for a YEAR! As someone once said, Plan A is like eating 500 calories and running 10 miles a day. Sure, you will loose weight but...
The soft "meet G's needs" approach did not work, at least not to any kind of meaningful degree. Maybe it was the setup for the latest volley in the get real baby happenings.
What did G see in PoolBoy? Here's my guess: a young guy with no reponsibilities and not a care in the world except for bedding as many married women as he can. Theirs was a sophmoric relationship but full of misplaced passion. Remember the cards that G kept as momentos that she "meant to throw away"? A young G, perhaps laden with the idea of motherhood and marriage tying her down found that combination irresitibable. Pio cannot compete with that. Why? Well, he has a family, a real job and goals other than poaching married women.
So, Pio, what do do now? I would keep the indifference going. It seems to be the only thing shaking her back to reality. I agree with the Big that it is time to check disrespect at the door but I disagree with his contention that you must decide what you want. You decided that long time ago. The person who still has the decision in front of them is G.
Good news is I believe you and G are finally on the path to R. I believe she will accompany you and DD's back to SA.
Others: Pio is intelligent and logical. He also has the burden of being an engineer, but we should mistake what he says here for the way he conducts himself with G and the girls. After exchaning, oh, about 800 emails with him, I can tell you that he is considerate, caring and a pretty decent human being. Let's not loose focus of his needs in this onging soap opera.
And Pio, a little practical advice. It is important that you AND G show DD's the best vacation you can. Perhaps to take your mind off your troubles, you should buy a new pair of shoes. But get a pair two sizes too small. Guarnteed to take your mind off what ails you.
I think maybe all the opinions hold a grain of truth. ToddAC is right in that I am probably not nearly as bad as I sometimes seem although I am certainly capable of rising to the occasion. I also think gemela is afraid to approach me about the A. She says it is because she doesn't want to hurt me any more. I remind her that the only thing that hurts me now is the lies. If she would be totally honest, things would be much better. I think I am being respectful of her at the moment and am still keeping my Plan A on autopilot. It really isn't even a plan any more. I respect her because she is my wife and a person and she deserves that. Every time I start to get angry about the A, I just pull up the photos and I get a laugh. My one year anniversary was really hard for me. I could hear her voice in my head as we had that fateful phone conversation. Don't worry about revenge affairs. I never forget I have HPV and I don't want to give it to anyone else ever.
I can see why you miss your 'buddy' Todd.... if you were forced to name one good thing out of this whole mess...... I suspect having your 'buddy' in your corner is one of them
...I don't suppose Todd is an engineer, too.....are you, Todd?
...I don't suppose Todd is an engineer, too.....are you, Todd?
Why do I feel as if I just got called to the principal's office?
No, not an Engineer. Originally a physics major. Physics was my great love from the sixth grade. I was very young as a college freshman and got tangled up with an older coed named Barbara. It went downhill from there and passion gave way to prudence.
BTW, a little aside here. My middle son's best friend graduated from Georgia Tech with a Physics degree. This kid finished with a 4.0 which is not an easy feat at Tech. He also had scored a 1,600 SAT, but then who didn't, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, his case demonstrates why I abandoned physics. He only has an undergraduate degree. As bright as he is, no job without an advanced degree. So guess what he does for a living? He gambles through online poker games. Makes several hundred dollars daily. Studied the odds and become a victor. Kids today. Geez.
luv the small shoe idea...i would perhaps need something a bit more diversionary since the pain from my vehicle trauma hasn't successfully shut me up but in fact done the reverse. I however like Pio, after the initial lovebusting outburst made a decision with H to act accordingly for the sake of the children which works like a double edged sword. The kids are commenting...look you and daddy are getting along so well...all the while I am having H separate all business aspects of life from me so that in the future worst case scenario plan D there is less entanglement. We have been cordial to each other but this messes with my head and I find myself having expectations and getting sad and teary over the actual business steps toward separation.
I have to say that just like Pio's G, my H has suddenly made efforts to be more of a father to the kids...he even verbalized that his goal was to prove at the least that he is a good father. No mention of agenda as a spouse although he has told the children he does not want to leave but will do what mommy wants. No efforts toward transparency which incites my fury and leads me to believe I am making the right decision since no amount of plan A has made any difference and several false recovery attempts have only made me more bitter.
I am so very sad for my children, this is stressful to all but I hate it for them. I'm trying hard to keep it together but DD1 knows so much and has taken to trying to comfort me when she sees me sad. I can only imagine Pio's stress at the airport with the girls <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Bigger, Don't you think things can get to a point where you can be respectful but detached until the WS proves their intention over time and with solid consistent evidence. Do you think detachment discourages the efforts of the WS? If you have been doing all the work for the entire time without any help from WS should you take it as motivation when they finally get ready to start helping? Aren't most BS's at the point of exhaustion/break when this happens? My biggest fear is that this time I allow myself to believe that recovery is possible, put myself out there, try to help H and then as has happened repeatedly...crush...betrayal, dishonesty, continued manipulation and lies...
Im in a hurry but it was good to read you again, unfortunately not so good news... I think finally you explote, you were agry for too much time, just tryin to be polite, and trying to give to your M a second chance... As a human you have the right to be mad, and you were hearing lies for too much time, so you "reventaste".. just you know if your words for G were too much agressive or not... I think for some reason you are still with her.. I dont know but you need to solve several things before to decide divorce or not.. Im worry about your DD's, its so hurting to cause pain to our D's because our A (I told this as a WS that I am) ... Its devastating,.. I dont know how old is you d, that showed more pain in that moment, how old is she? Im sure is the little one, she showed his pain, and what about the other daughter? how is reacting to all this? how old is she? Our d's are innocents of all, and as a WS we are so stupids and egoistas because we never thought of this consecuences of our A... I felt sick of myself...
Pio Take a breath, dont decide anything until you got quiet...
No mention of agenda as a spouse although he has told the children he does not want to leave but will do what mommy wants.
What a stand-up guy! So now, he has the table set that if he leaves, it's because it's what "mommy wants". I would act to diffuse this asap. The last thing you want is looking like the bad guy to your kids.
Quote
No efforts toward transparency which incites my fury and leads me to believe I am making the right decision since no amount of plan A has made any difference and several false recovery attempts have only made me more bitter.
When were your DD(s)?
Quote
I am so very sad for my children, this is stressful to all but I hate it for them.
Nothing breaks my heart in all the messes I read here like children. Children are what separates the minor from the major leagues.
Now – I’m going to become an armchair psychologist for a minute... This has been suggested previously on one of your threads but... Is your W afraid of transformation? Is she afraid of getting old and unwanted? Is her having an affair with a younger man (toyboy – obviously no realistic future in affair), her need to lug around outfits, makeup and shoes for an army and so on all pointing to a fear of being “ugly” and therefore unwanted? This in turn could indicate confidence or self-aware issues. What is it your W wants out of the marriage? Why is she willing to risk it but is afraid to lose it? Try to get to the bottom of that rather than the bottom of her suitcase.
WOW! You rock Bigger! I think you hit the nail on the head. Pio, I also agree with the luggage issue. Yes, Gamela needs to grow up and take responsibility for her suitcases, but you going through them and throwing things out is not giving her the opportunity to be responsible for herself. She is a big girl and you need to start treating her as such. Let her deal with the over weight luggage. Let her dig threw and throw away.
Pio, are you ALWAYS the grown up, responsible one and she forever the naughty child? Maybe boytoy was Gamela trying to have a balance of power in a relationship. I don't know. I do know that women like powerful men, but not ones who dominate them. Is Gamela much younger than you? Is your relationship with her more of a parent/child?
M 1995 D-Day 1 1996 EA/PA D-Day 2 1997 EA/?PA D-Day 3 2003 EA/?PA lasting from 2002-2004 and then still occassional contact up to today D-Day 4 3/06 EA/denies PA contact ended 4/06 D-Day 5 4/06 EA/denies PA contact ended 7/06 D-Day 6 5/06 EA's with 2 OW to present
Since 3/06 like a kid in candy store r/t job change and new roles. Plan A from suspected issues 3/06-end of 7/06. Requested H to leave 4 times; 4th time left for less than 48 hour.
Was awesome father for 10 years and very supportive H for career. Lost touch with each other when kids were toddlers and pretty much co-existed with no real emotional ties due to H's detachment from me emotionally...was getting EN's met by others despite my attempts. I was extrememly busy with work and trying to be a good mother and put his needs beneath kids and work however have always remained faithful and attempted to try things to reignite the marriage fires. H constant refusal for counseling etc.
Never have seen H like this before...complete and total alien for past 9 months...openly admits to all accussations except for PAs...although hides everybit of his life from me. I don't know what other route to take at this point and have to put my kids as the priority and try to protect them from any further stress. He was so good to them for so long they couldn't figure out why he dropped all of us like a hot potato for past 9 months.
First of all, I know piojitos better than many would suspect. I have followed his story from the start and I think I referred him to MB (sorry all!). In fact, I think it was I who dragged Todd here from another site (double sorry all!!). Piojitos knows that when I am tough on him I’m like a father taking off his belt and saying “Son, this will hurt me more than you!”
I do believe you can be detached but respectful. I don’t believe you can be RECONCILING and detached though. I do believe you can be reconciling but also fully accepting that separation is a realistic and acceptable option if R does not work. What I do not believe is that you can R while still working on separation or still have a separation mentality.
So my issue with piojitos right now is this:
Great you tore her a new one. Communications is good, even loud communications. I guess she really realizes the situation now. Even better that you and her fully realize that detachment is a real threat and a real option. You now know the stakes. But if you don’t use this to move on you are just doomed to settle on a new emotional plateau. If that’s the case then all the work and all the pain is for nought.
So use this situation. You are not doing that by dominating her or showing her disrespect at the airport or by refusing to haul her baggage. Try to get to the bottom of what she wants out of this marriage. See if that fits with what you want. Like Todd says and we all know who have read your posts you are (reasonably) sensible.
I have told you before piojitos that I take issue with how your WW involved the DD in the affair. DD1 knows a lot more than is healthy for her. I don’t know how long a holiday you have but you have a traumatised family. I think all of you could do with some professional help and I know the options in Saudi are not good. Is this something you can look into? Will your company offer telephone consultancy or video-conferencing consultancy?
I hate the new technology I always run in to when I come to the USA. It will soon get to the point where I will no longer be able to buy anything. I went to Home Depot to get a few things. Fortunately they still had one human checker that allowed me to get out of the store. It did take a while and gemela decided to sit down and rest while I was checking out. I always suspected that she was expensive but she accidentally sat on one of the electronic self-checkers and it scanned her. I now have confirmation of exactly how expensive she is!
I just told WW that I was glad she came to Houston. She gave me an incredulous look. I asked why. She said because I had made it clear that I did not want her to come. I said what I meant was that I was glad that she made the choice to come to Houston.
Actually we are having a good time. At least I am. I think WW is a little ashamed to be here with my family. Maybe. She can just get over it. We are really doing fine. I don't know why but we really are.
Go ahead and beat me up here on the board. I can take it.
Does that go for me as well?
Right, here goes.
I think you are quite proud of gemela's too much luggage and too much buying stuff. Quite a lot of affection comes through the stories.
Grownup asked this a while ago and you dodged the issue just like you're dodging it now. Are you equal partners, is gemela your intellectual equal and if she isn't does it matter to you? If it doesn't, fine, but I bet it matters to her. All your posts portray gemela as a selfish, shallow, slightly stupid woman. I'm not buying it. And if it IS true, what exactly do you get out of your marriage.
I want to take everyone back to when Pio was at about six to eight months in Plan A. This is the time frame BTW where Dr. Harley says to abandon Plan A and move to Plan B. Pio was encouraged, even chastised for thinking of leaving Plan A in the dust of WW's A. He stuck with it. It is obvious now that for his own emotional health, he stayed with Plan A much too long.
Then comes the discovery of the love cards that WW received from OM. We can all laugh about it and demean OM as BoyToy or whatever, and Pio even saw humor in cards and OM's pic, but the fact remains that the discovery had to cut deep into Pio and hurt very much. He earlier had learned that OM had been with WW in Pio and WW's bed. If I remember correctly from Pio's websie (and bear in mind what has surely happened to my memory in the last few weeks) OM talked to DD1 and even shared with her how much he loved her mom. Now, I'll tell you, if my OM had told that to one of my adult sons, let alone a minor child, I would have gone to the UK and left with OM's head in a basket. Now folks, put away the lumber. This is a metaphor. Simile? Analogy? Symbolism?
My point is, let's cut Pio some slack. Let's not forget who had the A and put this entire sorry mess in motion. Let's worry a lot more about WW, her actions and her burying her hand in the sand rather than how Pio cajoles WW to have her luggage conform to international flying rules and regulations.
Okay, here is my MB take. Put away the lumber; you will never convince me otherwise. This stuff about WS having affairs because their EN's weren't being met is a bunch of cow hockey. At any point in time, in the overwhelming majority of marriages, there is at least one spouse who has EN's that are not being met. Moreover, there are plenty of healthy marriages in which a spouse cheats. I subscribe to the Frank Pittman theory. If a spouse wants to shake up their marriage, burn the house down. It will be less expensive and hurtful in the long run. He also puts the blame for the A squarely on the shoulders of the WS. Imagine that folks.
2much, sorry about the T/J.
Do you have your own thread going?
And btw Bigger, who the heck are you? Do I know you? I don't think so. And you claim you brought me over to MB? What the heck is MB anyway?
Either one of us has had the potato on full blast for too long. I am certain you are the same guy I digitally met some time ago. Maybe his twin brother? Well, if I didn’t pull you over on this site (MB) that’s one thing off my conscience.
Totally agree the blame for the A is squarely on WS shoulders. The decision not to leave the marriage is however on both spouses shoulders. P always had the prerogative of walking away. He chose to stay and take on the fight knowing full well it would be hard.
Totally 100% agree on the inappropriateness of both OM and WW of involving the DD. I’ll even weave you a basket for the head.
The amount of pain a BS is expected to bear when in Plan A is tremendous. There are “classic” cases here on MB (Marriage Builders for you ToddAC) where people have stuck to Plan A long after the majority of posters scream for Plan B. Mainly because the BS have been getting consultation from Dr. Hartley (your host here ToddAC) telling them to stick to Plan A. Remember DazedandConfused? I don’t think many husbands could carry the cross placed on his shoulders.
I have told Mr. piojitos this: I don’t think he stayed in Plan A too long. I think Mr. and Mrs. P stayed in limbo too long playing emotional turkey with who went to Mexico and who goes home. Now they have finally moved on from that emotional plateau. I’m just encouraging him to stay away from the next plateau and move on.
Todd...no need for apology...I am the t/j'er. Used to have my own thread but had been at a stand still and didn't feel worthy of advice since no matter what I did nothing changed and I wasn't ready for Plan B. Not to mention my sitch is not the typical one time A scenario. Some of the seasoned MBers have alluded to what problem do I have that I would tolerate such behavior...that was not exactly the support I was looking for since I thought the whole point of MB was to try to do what it takes to salvage M. To me there is no point in establishing boundaries if you aren't willing to defend them...up to recently I wasn't defending. Early on I identified with Pio's attitude, sitch and humor and have followed since March 06.
I think Pio loves G but doesn't have the same type of intellectual banter he enjoys with Todd and others. I think G requires lots of reassurance, admiration and appreciation of her desirablility...I sense that Pio despite all his complaining about all her vanity enjoys and appreciates her beauty but maybe doesn't communicate it the way G needs it. No excuse for an A but an opportunity to rebuild if desires. I also think Pio is likely one who likes to control situations or at least guide/direct things/plan/responsible/fixer etc. G seems from description to be more of a free spirit, spontaneity and adventure. I bet over the years they both moved further in their own directions and are now more of at the ends of the spectrums vs. together in the middle. Think they need something to bring them back to common ground aside from the DD's... good thing all this insight huh? Where has it gotten me?? JMHO
I remember you now. You are married to the woman from Colombia right? You are moving back to North Carolina from somewhere. Anyway, sorry...
When the tumor itself was playing with my memory, I had almost zero short term memory. I could recall the license plate numbers from my first car but I would have a conversatin with someone and two minutes later I wouldn't remember what we had talked about. Now, it seems to be a combination of short and mid term memory. I guess you were locked in a vapor lock in the mid term. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. Didn't mean to slight you.
Well I think they happen because WS did not have, or took down boundaries that would have kept their behavior in check. For instance, the first time my WW went into OM's house with him while his BW, my WW's BF was away on a trip, it was a boundary a prudent person would have kept intact. But don't you know by then she was madly in love with OM. Boundaries don't matter when you have met your soulmate. Thirty six yearz of marriage? Bah, wasted on the man you thought was your soulmate. But then,as Kiwi said, I am Mr. Potato Head.
But regardless of boundaries, affairs occur because of something wrong with the WS, not the BS or the relationship. As Shirley Glass (think it was Glass, who knows at this point, lol), the WS thinks he/she is not getting enough from the marriage; it turns out that the WS is typically not giving enough to the marriage. My sitch is a little unusual but not unique unfortunately. I did Plan A for four months and moved on. My kids are "grown" and I didn't have the considerations that Pio has. I admire what he has done. BTW, he didn't stay only for DD's; he truly loves Gemela. That much is obvious to me.
For his sorry part, OM is a serial predator who exclusively targets married women. My WW is nothing more than a notch in his belt. She still thinks that OM considers her to be special. That is his special talent I suppose. Each victim is made to feel special long enough to lower their panties and hop in bed with him. He is a sick cookie. For more reference, read Pittman's description of the Philandering Man. Very insightful.
Todd, LOL 2many!!! DDs all different OWs. Kids 10,9,6. Very short courtship but yes tons of redflags...I was one of a 2 women he was simultaneously courting but I won and thought I was special. Of course you think that they will change and blow it off to immaturity etc. You think I would have learned after my 1st M ended after 6 yrs that you can't change someone...1st H didn't want children...good thing I didn't believe him and spent 6 yr's trying to make him change his mind...left without children...18 yrs later now and he still has no children...guess it was good I didn't hang in longer huh?
Hmmmmm, tonight H agreed to counseling...1st time ever as last ditch effort to attempt recovery. I will try not to be reading into it and set up an appt for after the kids and I return from our vacation. I just hate limbo...getting to the point of needing a definite direction and committing to it. Tell me why we have to have feelings??? Oh yeah, to prevent us from permanent and irrepairable injuries...
2much and bigger, very, very good insight and replies.
Todd,
Quote
it turns out that the WS is typically not giving enough to the marriage
This is so, so, so, so true.
I think you know we've been married 32 years next week. We, too, had grown up children but my H was going to fight for me no matter what. He just WAS NOT going to lose me. Our sitch seemed completely and absolutely hopeless after d-day, my recent setback (how and why did I do that???????????????) just put us back a bit but not much.
The fact that he thought I was worth it really helped me.
I forgot the number one reason why I think people have affairs. I think it is because they need external validation - IOW, from others - instead of getting it from inside.
WW referred to OM as "very charming". He "said and did the right things". For whatever the reasons why, his "admiration" of her validated her in her mind. Meanwhile, I was unable to provide her with validation. For the first time in our M, I needed to lean on her. She couldn't handle it. Nothing left for her to do but jump in bed with the philandering neighbor.
«took down boundaries» .....and failure to protect 'weaknesses'...I think it's the same...said differently
«she was madly in love with OM....met soulmate»...... unfortunely, we are made to believe in fairytales.....and many buy into 'it'...some of us....at any COST!
...maturity is looking squarily in the 'eyes' of fairytales.... and admit they don't exist.... and then see ALL that reality has to offer....which is much much more richer than any fairytale I know of!
«Thirty six yearz of marriage?».....that's 'reality' and why it can't compete with WS's 'imagination'........
....guess who will have the last laugh?......reality! ....that's why it's been said...that time is on BS's side...and ultimately....BS may have the 'last word'!
.....«because of something wrong with the WS» ....don't we all have some 'damaged goods' at various degrees?.... the 'key' is 'knowing about it'
«She still thinks that OM considers her to be special»....so, 'reality' hasn't hit them....YET!
«they need external validation».....easy to fail to 'protect' one's weakness if you don't KNOW what it is to begin with!.....the importance of 'personal recovery'......and learning what ARE our 'weaknesses'.....set needed boundaries to avoid being 'manipulated' through our weaknesses.....
....for me, as a BS....a WS that 'looks like' my S.....could easily 'manipulate' me....he is my 'weakness'......which is why I am 'sticking' to PLAN B and N/C like a non-swimmer to a piece of wood out in the ocean! (...which in turn is why N/C between WS and OP is essential for recovery!)
....just like an alcoholic who needs to NOT go into a bar!
2much,
«you can't change someone».....right....they can...if they want!
Kiwi, «Our sitch seemed completely and absolutely hopeless after d-day».....that's why 'hope' is important...and avoid outguessing 'future'....the human spirit should not be underestimated.....I do 'believe' it can move mountains!
....I am an incorrigible OPTIMIST!
....case in point....personally I was a 'basketcase' last year.....and as some have pointed out (and I do agree).... I have come a 'long way baby!
«I'm not bitter about it or anything...».... Todd, I am sorry for your loss!
Well until I started getting questioned about it on this website, the issue of intellectual equality had never ever crossed my mind. That is absolutely true.
Do I like gemela dressing up nice? Of course. Who wouldn't. I actually was thinking it was a bit strange until our trip to Mexico last December. Then I realized even 50 year old women dressed the same way. It is just a Latin thing. Even so, during her A and considering the fact that we live in Saudi Arabia, she was dressing very inappropriately - especially for pool visits.
Yes I did stay in Plan A too long. Yes Bigger is right in that I just need to suck it up. I think I posted a long time ago that one of my greatest fears was that I might reach the point where WW wanted the M but I didn't. The only question in my mind is whether "prerogative" is really a word or not.
...now....I am up so early because I can't sleep....because I am too......excited!
way back....DS15 asked me if we could take a trip to NYC this summer..... at first I really couldn't see myself alone in NYC with my beautiful two boys.... well....the wonders of visualization.....I worked on 'it' enough to see myself.....and as one of my 'former' employers put it.... being the 'efficient, responsible, intelligent person' that I am........the three of us are off for three days to NYC this weekend!
...besides not looking too 'touristy' in the Big Apple.....any suggestions of what to 'avoid' there....HAHAHAHAHA!
I am not sure who got ToddAC over here but I have been trying my best to keep him off that other site. It is just too painful to see so many people basking in self-pity. Either way you look at it, you can all blame bigger for the fact that we are on this site.
I think I posted a long time ago that one of my greatest fears was that I might reach the point where WW wanted the M but I didn't.
....are you on your way to 'realizing' it?
Now...about the quotes.....there must be an easier way....the quote button gives the WHOLE post to quote......if I want to quote a 'partial' reply without having to cut cut cut cut...is there a way to select what I want to quote?
technical stuff....could the 'engineer' in the house help me out?
Well until I started getting questioned about it on this website, the issue of intellectual equality had never ever crossed my mind. That is absolutely true.
Well, maybe big boy, but I think you will concede that it was the intellectual chemistry between us that got us into our current EA...
BTW, although my WW is not intellectual, she is very intelligent. She has intelligence where I have blind spots and vice versa. OM, for his part, is as dumb as rain. Guess that appealed to her.
Luna, You said something that really set-off a bell in my head...ok, so I know you all are thinking there are lots of bells in there and perhaps I should take note, but...Luna said she envisioned herself in NYC and initially it wasn't something she could see but after repeatedly wanting it and visualizing it now she is actually seeing it happen.
A great mentor once told me that you are what you see yourself as...if you want to be say a CEO then visualize it daily, takes steps to get closer, have a plan and stick to it...sound familiar...I think we often get caught up in the pain and stray from the vision due to discouragement and pain. I don't necessarily want to envision something I think is totally unrealistic but happiness is free and not dependent upon anything but ourselves. I think I'm gonna take Luna's optimism and run with it...H or no H. My kids deserve it and so do I; if H happens to hang around and enjoy it then he wins...if not, sorry for him!
Todd...you crack me up with your humor. Do you scream and kick walls when off the board? How do you deal with all of your stress and anger? Are you writing a book? Keeping a journal?
I'm waiting for Pio's made for TV miniseries...entitled...
...besides not looking too 'touristy' in the Big Apple.....any suggestions of what to 'avoid' there....HAHAHAHAHA!
Yes, avoid the Bag Ladies. Do NOT make eye contact with them under any cirumstances. I have been attacked by two Bag Ladies in my life - one in NYC and one in Boston. The attack in Boston was physical and occurred in the North End for those who know Boston. She even followed me into the restaurant and had to be restrained and shown the door by the manager.
The NYC attack was verbal with physical "overtures". One of NYC's finest put an end to her madness. But darn, did he really have to shoot her? Yes, it was a good shooting as they say.
When you get in a taxi, close your eyes. It is ugly to be going down Broadway at 80 mph.
Keep expectations of your NYC hotel room very very low. NYC, for the money, has the smallest and worst hotel rooms anywhere. Go figure.
And to really blend in and not be a tourista, be especially rude. As you walk down the sidewalks, run into a couple of people. Then stop dead in your tracks and shout: "hey why don't you watch where youse guys are going". Never, ever make eye contact. It is a sign of weakness. For a hapless Southerner like me, this was difficult because we always stop and talk to everyone. But after the fourteenth "Whad are youse guys doing here anyway, get out of my way"; I caught on.
And if there is currently a heat wave, be prepared for the worst weather imaginable. There are two places that are miserable with regards to the weather: NYC in the summer and Chicago in the winter.
Oh yeah, do let the boys throw pennies off the top of the Empire State Building. They hurt. Plus, I still have some of Abe's whiskers stuck in my scalp. Hey, you don't think.....nah.
I hope to steepen your learning curve with my experience.
Todd...you crack me up with your humor. Do you scream and kick walls when off the board? How do you deal with all of your stress and anger? Are you writing a book? Keeping a journal?
What humor?
Deal with the stress. What stress?
I am writing a book. How did you know? Every high school English and Lit teacher encouraged me to become a writer. I always dismissed it because my first love was physics. My second BTW was my WW. No, that's not true. The second was the naughty coed Barbara. She was my soulmate. I gave up physics for her. And look where it got me. She was a math major. So, what does she do now? She's an attorney.
I don't plan to have a fourth.
I digress.
The book will be called "Life's Lessons". I have the reputation with my three sons that I know everything about everything. Not true obviously, but it's nice to have your kids think so highly of you. Well, anyway, I am self-taught as it relates to buying houses, cars, financial planning, stocks, etc. All the stuff. So, anyway, while I was ill and not yet diagnosed, I had the feeling I may not be around for very long so that condition spawned the idea for the book. Progress is dreadfully slow and even worse now.
Of course, not the book my teachers had in mind. That all wanted me to write the next great American novel. Is that an oxymoron? I guess I just don't have the motivation honestly. I have no shortage of ideas and even wrote a few chapters but lost interest.
The book I had in mind was going to be entitled "Snowball". It was a clever idea if I say so myself.
As for handling the stress, I am a left-brain person. Every time I take one of those irritating "Are you left or right brain" tests, I peg the needle to the left. But, my emotions run deep, they just don't rule who I am. Now, on DD, I went stark raving mad. I literally ran around the house punching my fist as hard as I could into the wall at muliple locations. I had the good "fortune" of hitting a stud every time. Why is that good? No sheetrock repair was necessary. Why is that bad? My right hand was swollen and painful for two weeks.
What set me off was my WW's verbalized reason for cheating: she thought I was dying. Sorry, I had and still have trouble getting that one. Maybe she will be right before it is all over (ToddAC wallows in self-pity). I just wish she had gotten the sequence of events straight.
And to the idea of visualizing future successes, events, etc., there is a well-known book on this subject. It is entitled "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. He learned the method from no less than Andrew Carnegie. Look at what that guy did. He built a great hall. However, Carnegie is best known as a great purveyor of cough drops. Lucky guy. Can you imagine have cough drops with your name all over the wrappings? My goals feel so meager sometimes.
ToddAC and I go a bit back. I know his humour (or lack of). It’s as black as his coffee. That’s why I sometimes think he is English. That’s also why I allow myself to make borderline inappropriate comments to him…
Pio. Don’t suck it up. Just don’t wallow in misery. It’s like Homer Simpson complaining about his weight while eating a donut. I KNOW you hate it when we compare the WS to an alcoholic so let’s turn this around:
An abstaining alcoholic in line with the 12 step program knows he has the ability and the possibility to drink. He accepts he is basically powerless against that. That is why he works 100% to NOT drinking. He is totally committed to not drinking because he accepts that drinking is a path he could go. I think you have to have a similar mentality if you want this marriage. Because you now know (and hopefully WW as well) that not being married is a real option you commit 100% to the marriage. This is precisely why I think the Florida Incident is good.
I believe many relationships survive affairs but not many marriages… People can move on and be together despite the affair but if they don’t work on improving the marriage then at the minimum they will always have this milestone around their necks. Every now and then it will pop up. For me that’s not reconciliation; its survival or acceptance of an unfulfilled life. I don’t think piojitos wants this: he wants full recovery and a full relationship. He will not accept compromises and he should not accept compromises.
Below the post box is a menu of Instant UBB Codes. Click the quote one to place the quote code automatically in the post box. Then go to the post written below that you are responding to and use the mouse to drag the text you want to quote and copy and paste with the mouse in between the two quote brackets. I hope that makes sense but it is really easy to do. Using the quotes makes your post a lot easier to read.
"is there a way to SELECT what I want to quote within a post?"
2much,
Quote
My kids deserve it and so do I; if H happens to hang around and enjoy it then he wins...if not, sorry for him!
...it's a much much more empowering attitude, don't you thing, 2much?
Todd,
Quote
Yes, avoid the Bag Ladies.... When you get in a taxi, close your eyes.....Keep expectations of your NYC hotel room very very low...be especially rude....As you walk down the sidewalks, run into a couple of people...Never, ever make eye contact. It is a sign of weakness....currently a heat wave, be prepared for the worst weather imaginable....I hope to steepen your learning curve with my experience.
...I know...I am hoping the heat wave will have passed....
....thanks, Todd, my 'learning curve' has been steepened, for sure! ...I am ready for Mount Everest...Kilomagaro (sp).... you name it!
Quote
I always dismissed it because my first love was physics. My second BTW was my WW. The second was the naughty coed Barbara. She was my soulmate. I gave up physics for her. She was a math major...She's an attorney.
I don't plan to have a fourth.
The book will be called "Life's Lessons"...
As for handling the stress...I literally ran around the house punching my fist as hard as I could into the wall at muliple locations....My right hand was swollen and painful for two weeks.
What set me off was my WW's verbalized reason for cheating: she thought I was dying...I just wish she had gotten the sequence of events straight.
....so....in what 'field' did you end up 'earning a living' in?
....and why not a 'fourth'? ....like....writing...
Personally I picked up my 'painting brushes' from 20 yrs back...who knows....there may be another (name your favourite artist) somewhere in me!
....Todd...hitting pillows would do just as well...minus the bleeding knuckles (sp?)
...your WS just proved that 'anything' can be used against you.....
Below the post box is a menu of Instant UBB Codes. Click the quote one to place the quote code automatically in the post box. Then go to the post written below that you are responding to and use the mouse to drag the text you want to quote and copy and paste with the mouse in between the two quote brackets. I hope that makes sense but it is really easy to do. Using the quotes makes your post a lot easier to read.
Thanks, Pio, just crossed posts with you.....will work on it....
....anything to make life easier for my fellow MBers..... life is stressful as it is already!
Well bigger I have been asking myself some fundamental questions rather than hit the A head on. Can I survive the A? Probably. Many people seem to so I guess I should to. The questions I am dealing with are: 1) am I happier with WW or without her? 2) Do I still love WW? 3) Does WW make me happy?
If we do stay in this M, some things will definitely have to change. For one thing I won't be buying any more shoes any time soon.
....so....in what 'field' did you end up 'earning a living' in?
I started a group and sold a service to American blue chip companies. Brand new service. Tough selling in the beginning but it soon caught on and they wondered how they did business without it. After doing that for a while, I sold the business and retired at age 50. Then promptly got sick. What's those Lennon song lyrics? Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans? Something like that.
My new vocation was going to be golf. I soon learned why it's a four letter word. It is a most diabolical game. I was much kinder to it that it was to me.
Quote
....and why not a 'fourth'? ....like....writing...
Well, why not a fourth woman? It's because of that five letter word: tr*st. I may get it someday but for now, I am resigned to live the rest of my life alone. Unless I make to Russia or the Ukraine.
As for writing, I don't know. Right now, I couldn't do it. I struggle just to post here. I am doing better than I thought I would however. My memory is the worst problem.
I just can't place Bigger.
Quote
....Todd...hitting pillows would do just as well...minus the bleeding knuckles...
Honestly, pillows don't do it for me. No physical pain feedback. You see, the human body acts as a feedback mechanism to tell the brain that action has occurred, release some endorphins. Then the pain sets in and that completes the servo system. What do to then? Well, the pain infuriated me for being so stupid for hitting the wall. To compensate for my error in judgment, I started hitting the kitchen cabinets. Not smart. Cracked a door. $380 to have it replaced and stain matched to the existing sun faded cabinets.
Infidelity is a messy and expensive hobby.
Quote
...your WS just proved that 'anything' can be used against you.....
I guess. What is so bizzare to me is that she thought that reason would be easy for to accept. As she put it, "if I had known how much it would hurt and anger you, I wouldn't have done it". Hmm.... what is that called? Lack of empathy maybe. Maybe. She remains non-remorseful and has no guilt whatsoever. "What did you expect me to do, just sit around and wait for you to die? I was lonely". Did I mention that was her charm that I initially found so overwhelming attractive?
You know the one big advantage of having a physics major is that the absolute worst you can do is graduate second in your class. I think the only thing lonelier would be civil engineering.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my 'dry' questions.....
Quote
I sold the business and retired at age 50. Then promptly got sick.
...since I CAN'T retire early....I won't have to remember that.....
Quote
Well, why not a fourth woman?
...why not, indeed!
Quote
She remains non-remorseful and has no guilt whatsoever. "What did you expect me to do, just sit around and wait for you to die? I was lonely".
Your WS is tooooo much... another 'catch up' question: what's the status? .....plan A...plan B..... WS moved out.....plan D? This helps me put some'faces' to the names type-of-thing...
in my case....WS maintains that meeting OW, his soulmate, was 'destiny' at work...oh pleeeeease....curious to know how 'destiny' will do when it will meet up with 'reality'.....
Quote
I struggle just to post here. I am doing better than I thought I would however. My memory is the worst problem.
Todd...sorry.....didn't realize how serious it was....and I know humour helps.....but...being faced with our mortality can't be much fun...
in my case....WS maintains that meeting OW, his soulmate, was 'destiny' at work
I have told gemela several times that she was so fortunate that God sent me to Mexico to meet her and then got me transferred to Dubai where I met the guy who convinced me to go to work in Saudi Arabia and that, during that time he gave us two children that would just be at the age where they needed swimming lessons in Saudi all just so she would finally be able to meet her soulmate. Destiny is really complicated.
I think the only thing lonelier would be civil engineering.
Possibly. But the civil engineers I know believe that civil is the only pure engineering discipline. They do not believe that the other types of engineers are really engineers.
Last I remember ToddAC was living with one of his sons and left the family home to his WW and her collection of GWTW dolls - some of which may have gotten sucked out when the tornado removed the roof from the house. It may be that OM has moved into the family home with WW.
Your WS is tooooo much... another 'catch up' question: what's the status? .....plan A...plan B..... WS moved out.....plan D? This helps me put some'faces' to the names type-of-thing...
You know what is so strange? Before her A, she was truly the sweetest woman I had ever known. Something changed her. For the record, my WW is also a Latina. After years of seeing her Father and brothers cheat with impunity, and then juxtaposing that against her strict Catholic upbringing when she go to the US, I think it generated a sense of entitlement within her. Make sense?
Plan D.
The house was in her name. We did that because our esate lawyer recommended that we balance assets in our relative names to avoid as much death tax as possible. Her friends convinced her that the house was hers and hers only even though our state is a community property state. So, in March, I moved out. I moved in with my oldest son because I am not supposed to be living alone. Seizures and all that stuff.
So, she has since sold the house and moved in with her enabling best friend. But, not all's well in paradise. According to DS3, she hates living there.
A few months back, a tornado hit the house and did some renovations to the roof. The roof was deposited into the swimming pool and approximately ten neighbor's lawns. They were not amused. So, a couple of weeks ago, I received a NastyGram from her telling me that I moved out and left her alone to face the tornado and to sell the house by herself and move by herself. Well, a friend helped. Anyway, she told me that she finally realized what kind of man I was, that I abandoned her in her time of need.
I won't describe my reply. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
That link didn't exactly work for me. You haven't mentioned any loathing on this thread. Go ahead. Spice it up a bit or ToddAC will start talking about columbia clamps again. Initials are V and D. Hmmm. Venereal Disease comes to mind.
That link didn't exactly work for me. You haven't mentioned any loathing on this thread. Go ahead. Spice it up a bit or ToddAC will start talking about columbia clamps again. Initials are V and D. Hmmm. Venereal Disease comes to mind.
OW's IRL initials are VD...how telling is that?
I HATE her.
Loathe.
Detest.
Abhor.
I posted to my stalker (Dobie) out there in General earlier today. I think that post sheds some light on the experiences I've had with the Walking Disease these past 3 years.
Here's what I wrote to ya:
Quote
Do you know how farging chatty you people are on the weekend?
Not only did I have to search and search for the particular question...I THEN had to remember what the heck I wrote LAST WEEK!
Sheesh. And we are having a survey on karst cave crickets tonight (and other nights this week) that I am helping prepare for....
We're trying to figure out what would entice the danged critters out of their caves...I mean, I know what would do it for me...but I don't think a bottle of Arrogant Ba$[censored] Ale would do it for a bunch of invertebrates...I seriously doubt their palate has refined past Coors Light....
Anyone wanna help count cave bugs?
What I meant, dear man, is that you are very visably disentangling yourself from Gemla's self imposed misery (miasma). I say self imposed because she CHOSE this for herself...You, however, are choosing NOT to follow her into her swampy wallow.
For that, for you saving yourself and your daughters from riding that particular train to he11, you are getting a few thumbs up from someone who wishes she'd removed herself from the miasma sooner....THE MOMENT I removed myself and took back the control is THE MOMENT I regained clarity of mind.
Of course, all that was written before the airport meltdown of 2006.
Lemme tell you my opinion for what it was worth...Gemla needed to hear all of what you said at the airport AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME in order for it to sink in.
Thanks for the reprint. I just spent the last 30 minutes searching this thread and had just found it and was about to tell you when I saw your post. Kind of the way my life goes these days.
Here is where I am at. I think in order for me to stay in this marriage, I am going to have to fall in love with gemela again. I am going to give us time to see if it happens. I can always get divorced as bigger keeps reminding me. Those vikings sure are stubborn people.
How do you plan to fall in love? I guess I need to see what EN's are missing. I haven't really thought much about it. Until a few days ago, I expected to be separated right now. Maybe I also need to ask myself what barriers exist to me falling in love with gemela again. The A is not one of them. I think I need to see some fundamental changes in her. I want to see her shift more of her attention from herself to our DDs, for example. She thinks SF is an important EN for me. It isn't but we have never discussed it either. Actually I don't enjoy SF with her at all any more but that is because I am emotionally disconnected at the moment.
What’s this I’m hearing of engineers who are not civil engineers? Are they uncivilised engineers?
I’m not encouraging you to divorce. I’m just saying it’s either a committed marriage or a committed separation. No wallowing in self-pity middle ground for either of you. It’s so easy to get stuck there.
I’m fortunate in being happily married. I fall in and out of love with my wife. In love for various reasons (ranging from her grilled lobster to the love she shows our kids to how sexy she can look). Out of love most of the time just happens when I take her for granted… Love is a conscious decision in my opinion.
Yes being in love is work. No doubt. I just think gemela needs to start a Plan A of her own. She seems to be doing just that. It is so interesting to see how this has all gotten turned around. I think she is a bit confused as to what to do but I do think she is trying her best. She says she definitely wants the M and I actually believe she is sincere. I don't think she has any interest in the pool boy. I think she wants to hang on to the fantasy of the romance as a fond memory. That is a bad idea.
I just can't get over the physics major thing. I mean what was ToddAC thinking? "Yeah I'm gonna major in physics - that will really help me pick up women!" Most engineers are not civilized. We are too pragmatic for that. If I am in a restaurant and have a soft drink with free refills, I have no problem getting up and getting it myself if the service is really slow. WW thinks that is rude. I think it is a simple solution to a problem.
I mean what was ToddAC thinking? "Yeah I'm gonna major in physics - that will really help me pick up women...
Well, it worked on Barbara. I mean, she was three (or so) years older. I was very young. She was guilty of statutory rape but I refused to file charges. Anyway, she was impressed with my physics major. Then she preceded to corrupt me and do everything else she could to cause me to turn away from physics.
But as Mario Puzo wrote in "Fools Die": But the truth is that only women have been able to make me unhappy, and they have done so from the cradle on. But most men can say that. And there’s nothing to be done.
Let's not forget that WW does not like me spending time on MB. I have to do it in small doses when I get an opportunity.
A while ago you gave me a complete description of each of the 367 clamps you own and their specific uses. You have a special fondness for Columbian clamps. Fettish might even be appropriate. And yes KiwiJ is right in that you had invented a new use for them with regard to OM.
And yes KiwiJ is right in that you had invented a new use for them with regard to OM.
Yes that much is true. I have selected the three smallest clamps I have for that particular use. I have also devised a lever insert so the torque can really be turned up.
"What did you expect me to do, just sit around and wait for you to die? I was lonely". Did I mention that was her charm that I initially found so overwhelming attractive?
OMG Todd. What a cold hearted b1tch. And you Plan A'd this monster? I really cannot wrap my mind around her actions or words.
Just want you to know that we love and care about you here. Okay, so we're a group of strangers on the internet. Just don't tell your friends or they'll think your brain has really been fried.
I don't post to you often but I do look for your posts to make sure you're okay. I do care. And I do hope you find another woman some day that you can trust and be happy with. Otherwise the visions of you and Pio spoonin' {Those aren't pillows!} are just too much to handle.
Yes but your H is also a poet. If I could write poetry like girlee man, I might be perfect. When I look up at the sky, I see gemela's and my stars shining together. Oops. It's raining. Maybe later.
Not infantile, not immature, just not like a middle aged man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But then my H doesn't sound like a middle aged man either. Maybe it's just baby boomers. We never grew up.
At the other site, I exchanged PM's with a young guy who really needed to screw his head back on. Anyway, he asked how old I was, I said fifty seven. He said: Wow, I thought you were about twenty five. So, being naturally curious, I asked why. He said, well your advice and feedback is not profound like you would think an old man's advice would be.
Well I solved the rain problem not letting us see our stars shining together. I set up a satellite dish and have a radio wave receiver which feeds into my laptop where I have a wavelength shift conversion program to convert the reception back to the visible spectrum. Gemela is just going to faint when I show her our stars shining together. Is that poetic or what?
No I did not read the deleted post and feel somehow cheated.
gemela and I had a talk last night. I asked her what she wanted out of the M. She said she wanted us to be together as a family. I said we are together as a family. What I want is a happy marriage or a happy divorce. I asked her what was so wrong in our mariage before that we needed to change. She said she was unhappy that I did not spend much time with them in Muscat. I replied that from my POV she had a lot to do with that by attaching herself to her mother during that time and shutting me out. I said I was not trying to place blame but that there is more than one side to the story. She said the A was a mistake. I said putting your shirt on inside out is a mistake. Her A was a sin and destroyed her family. (DJ? maybe).
I told her I was confused and not sure what I wanted. I said I am not sure I still want to be married to her. All I know is that I am not happy and I will never go back to the life we have been living. Things need to change very much for me to be interested in this M. So I asked again what she wanted. Nothing. I told her I wanted her to be more focused on the kids than on herself. I told her she did not need to buy clothes or shoes to be beautiful. She could put on anything and be beautiful. She said she was not. I told her she was the most beautiful woman I have ever seen and that I think this is all part of her problem.
Hello, Sounds like you all have some concerns...confused as to if they are more centered around writing skills or age? Writing style is not directly r/t age, however content definitely r/t age, life experience etc. Some youngsters have lived many lifetimes of woes in few years though so it's hard to tell. I must admit I prefer reading something that I don't have to work like a dog to translate or interpret. I like to understand what it is saying the first time...don't want to have to re-read 5 times to find all the hidden meanings, symbolism etc.
I am much more the direct shooter type...lots of the reason MB principles are difficult for me. I understand the alien theory but I tend to feel that if you have to bait people and set up the environment that you are in a sense creating a false environment that is difficult if not impossible to maintain. I just want to say...hey get your head out of your a$$, look at what pain you are causing, either you want this M or you don't...make a decision and move on. If you want it this is what you need to do x,y,z. If it doesn't happen you know they don't want it...
I am having some emotional spiraling lately. Cognitively I feel I should cut H out, have fun and move on with my priority the kids. H making it difficult since staying at the house but choosing to stay out every other night, not committing to any NC or anything else but refuses to say he doesn't love me and refuses to say he wants D. Gives me the "I don't know what I want". To me it's pretty simple. If you want your M, tell the 21 yr old that you've known for 4 months that it's over, cease contact, be transparent and get on with working on M...or throw away 11 yr M and 3 awesome kids to "find out if being together" is what you want. HHHHHMMMMMMMM complicated decisions.
Today DD1 B-day. H chose to go out and stay out all night but assured me he'd be home for Bday in pm. He asked me if he could go with xxx to xxx and be back the next afternoon (today)...I reminded him DD1 bday. Now, if you were trying to be a good dad (like he says is his goal) would you knowingly on your DD bday choose to not be with her every minute that you didn't have to work? No he chooses to be with friends and then apppear for DD in pm. I call and text last night but no answer for 2 hours. Wanted to remind him to call DD at Midnight for bday. He finally texts back and says he never got calls or text...asks what's up. I wait till after mn and he text again...I tell him he should call DD. In meantime she says how she can't believe H didn't remember to call for bday...10min later surprise he calls talks to her and hangs up. WTF, yeah the whole superdad thing is really working out for him. Especially considering that all of us could have been dead less than 2 wk ago. But of course the calls and TMs to OWs are still going strong despite any of that.
I really don't think counseling is worth anything at this point since I don't think he is willing to do what it takes...he is just buying time to cake eat I think. What amazes me is how I can basically hate and be disgusted but still feel like I love him. Is that normal? At my wits end here. I'd contact OW if I thought it would do any good but I know that my H is the problem given his hx.
Gotta go put on the coffee and wake DD1...just decorated with Bday signs (our family tradition). Hope she has a good one. She is 10 today! In 2 wks my DD2 turns 6 so we get to play all over again:)
About the feedback Todd..."profound" is in the eye of the beholder...surely the young man did need some mechanical adjustments...it's the simple stuff that is the hardest in life
While you may no longer exist to WH, I am sure his kids do. I am betting every second he spends with them is painful for him. Not trying to defend his actions here but his keeping his distance may be a defense mechanism. Don't know. If I were you, I would just stop thinking about it. You can't change it and all it does is wind you up. Just go put one of your boots on his bed. That will make you feel better.
There is a new poster trying to make the case that he married the wrong sister. He talks about how much he has in common with SIL. It got me thinking of an interview a very long time ago. I can't remember if it was Billy Graham or his wife that was being interviewed but I think it was Billy. The question was basically whether the two of them were alike and had a lot in common. Billy answered that if two people agree on everything, one of them is unnecessary. Don't know why that occurred to me.
This thread is for me to keep my story up-to-date, for me to keep in touch with ToddAC who saves my sanity and to keep in touch with others who know my story and are trying to help. Other people use it as well for other purposes. You can use it too if you like. It stays on page 1 a lot because ToddAC is such a prolific writer. I couldn't keep up with ToddAC if I tried.
Now for the bad news. My BIL had brought my Harley down to Houston and it is sitting here in the garage. I have not even uncovered it since I have been here because it is not tagged. He trailered it out to be inspected before we got here and one of the tiedowns came loose on the way back. He just told me about it today. One side of the gas tank on the Deuce is caved in. He felt really bad about it. I told him not to worry. With all my other problems right now, the Harley gas tank is the least of them.
Three clamps? That might explain the affair right there.
Well, not sure what this means but... if you think of the human male anatomy, there are three good spots to clamp. One is a cylinder and the other two are err....ovals. Anyway..
I got a little surprise. I just checked hotmails and had two emails from you. At least I thought it was you. You and another person both show up the same on the listing. Boy is he going to get a surprise. In regard to your email, I am in complete agreement. Just can't say it out loud here.
Thanks for the clamp explanation. For a bit I was truly jealous of your OM. Now I feel better.
DS3 called. WW was in a one car accident. She is okay. She flew off the road. Over the past ten years or so, she has had eight accidents. All were her fault. In seven of those accidents, one or more of her sisters were with her. See a pattern?
Now, that seems like an excessive number of accidents to me. Do you see a pattern with her sisters? Don't know yet if she was alone or not during this last accident. Prolly was because she was headed to work.
Incidentally, the lone accident with no sister aboard occurred a few days after the death of her favorite and closet sister. She rammed the back of a $80,000 Jaquar driver by a physician. He was happy. The first accident she had was when she ran into the back of my car while driving her sister's brand new car. Do you see a pattern here?
Why did she have the accident? Because she insists on driving 80-90 MPH on every road regardless of traffic or weather conditions.
Well, the drama caused my matchmaking youngest son to wonder why his Mom and I cannot get back together. I explained it as best I could but one thing he learned from me is persuasiveness and persistence.
I need help in what and how to tell him it's over.
Also, not all is well in best friend paradise. It seems that BF and her boyfriend went on vacation for a week and when they returned, BF saw her newly minted electric bill. She started complaining to WW, saying that she cooked too much and ran the HVAC too much and that is why her bill was so high.
For the uninitiated, BF abandoned her family including three kids to go and live "her own life and have fun". She shacks up with a married man who also desserted his family. At the time BF met boyfriend, he was shacked up with another woman who had abandoned her family. So, BF stole him away. BF was the chief enabler of WW's affair. She had been telling WW for over twenty years she should starting "having fun". Well, after living with BF for two months, WW has learned that BF's lifestyle is not really for her. It seems that BF drinks all the time. Duh, WW, so do you! She wants to party and always have "fun".
Okay, so WW's second BF also abandoned her family to "get happy". She then proceeded to have affairs with a number of married men. See a pattern?
Both BF's are miserable. Both are alcoholics. So is WW for that matter. Misery loves company.
Sorry I missed responding to your post. I read it but forgot to respond...
I finished five weeks of therapy last week. I think it was last week. Anyway, next step is followup MRI in one month and I guess monthly after that. My life's quest will be to track down the guy who invented the MRI machine contraption and torture him.
Anyway, I feel better each day. Mentally not all here yet, but then...
No I have not made arroz con habichuelas yet. Every time I get in la cocina, DS1's GF runs in there and takes over. She has never met a recipe she follows. She always changes it for the detriment of the food. Her rice always comes out, can't think of the term now, but it means wet and mushy?
She is French and fashions herself a gourmet cook. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> We prolly have some French members here at MB so I will make no comment.
When I get my own place some day, I will make it myself.
Me too, but my biggest gripe is the packaged box at the store boasts how the software is "intuitive" and "easy to use". So easy, even an adult could use it. Yeah, then you open the box and find a 1,400 page manual.
Actually, we prolly both agree on helping others. Where we disagree is who does the helping. Why is it acceptable for the Government to hold a gun to my head and take my hard-earned money and then dole it out to others?
Look at government schools in this country. The US, despite all its wealth, power and innovation, consistently ranks behind other first world countries in math and verbal scores. Why? The federalization of government schools. All schools should be private. Why are private schools so effective? I have talked to a number of administrators and teachers in private schools and their uniform answer is: we design a curriculum without "help" from the federal government.
See, what Dems are all about is income redistribution. They do not favor equal rights; they say that but it is not true. What they want is equal outcomes. That is unrealistic and ultimately robs people's dignity.
Republicans want equal opportunity and let the chips fall where they may.
Dems see politics as a social experiment.
And Dems in no way believe in free enterprise. Look at how they wanted to tax (rob) the oil companies of their "excess profits". Their appetite for "revenue" and spending is insatiable. They created Social Security and then took steps to ensure its quicker demise.
Under my form of government, each individual would have ultimate freedom and liberty. Where does that liberty end? When it interferes with the liberty, property, health or life of another invididual. If a guy wants to shoot heroin into his vein, so be it. Put it in mine and you go to prison and stay there for a long while.
Someone, I believe they were new to this thread, asked me a question a couple of weeks back. I was not in a position to answer then. I just looked for but could not find the post.
I'm not sure which category I'm in. If you prefer I don't post, just tell me and I won't.
Geez you are sensitive. You are in the category of those trying to help. So is everyone who posts to a degree but you and a few others know the whole story. Most don't.
ToddAC,
There is a great commercial on the poker channel. A woman pulls into the driveway with a bent fender. She gets out and tells her husband "same thing happened again". He says "meteor?". She says "second time. I was just parked at the intersection and BAM!". Misses Mars, misses the moon and hits me."
What I meant about others using it for their purposes - an example would be believer using it as a platform to trash Israel and US foreign policy. It makes me ashamed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I raised three sons. MIL lived fifty minutes from WDW. I have been on IASWAA a million times at least. Also, Weeki Wachee. Adult male beneifits there I am happy to report: mermaids!
Busch Gardens: Beer at the end of the hot, dusty trail for adult males. Mercy!
And then there was the now defunct Boardwalk and Baseball. Actually a great concept that didn't last two seasons.
I forgot SeaWorld. I have been soaked with whale and dolphin water more times that there are sand grains in SA.
And then HardRock Cafe. Expensive and mediocre, and loud.
Did I mention LOUD?
Wait until DD's get older. Everywhere you take them, no matter the diversions, they will clamour: let's go to HardRock!
Then, when we went to San Francisco, all I ever wanted to do in SF was to visit Ghiradelli chocolates and ChinaTown to get a real Chinese meal.
Where did we go? HardRock Cafe.
We couldn't find it. It was at the edge of ChinaTown. We stopped at a Chevron station. The attendant was Chinese. I asked for directions to HardRock. He said: "Why don't you go to Chinatown and get some real food, cheap?"
Mercy.
Kids.
HardRock Cafe.
It's everywhere.
So, we went to Puerto Rico. I wanted to go and get rice and beans and roast pork, platanos, arroz con pollo, rice pudding, etc.
Where did we end up?
HardRock Cafe.
The only upside is that all three sons have t-shirts, sweatshirts and sweaters from HardRock Cafe.
HRC has been DD1's favorite restaurant since she was 4. We went at least two times a week in Dubai. We still visit everyone we get withing 50 miles of. Even WW is tired from DW. I asked if she wanted to go to NASA here in Houston. She asked if I was crazy. We didn't go.
I think I have convinced DD's that our next trip will be to the pyramids. It was a negotiation. First they were concerned that there still might be mummies around. Once that was settled, they asked if there were hotels in Cairo. For some reason they were concerned that they might have to sleep in tents.
So since you seem to know so much about the HRC. Can you tell me how much my tequila shot glass collection is going to cost - and how much I will be able to get for it on Ebay?
So since you seem to know so much about the HRC. Can you tell me how much my tequila shot glass collection is going to cost - and how much I will be able to get for it on Ebay?
Honestly, all I know about tequila is that it is the only liquor that can kill you. The only one. No other liquor can kill you.
You know regarding the SIL thread, I was 18 when I met my H and he was 23. I nearly didn't go out with him because he was too old. I was engaged just after my 19th birthday.
It's sort of weird that everyone is focussing on the age. It could be any age and it would still be completely inappropriate.
Who took the star away? Was that you in a tiff? Maybe I need to stay away from my own thread again for a bit. See if we can upgrade the environment.
KiwiJ,
You of all people should know that if I ever have a problem with you, I am not shy about letting you know it. Right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I'm off to bed. I feel very bad.
I just read that more women have affairs than men. I now feel lucky that my WW didn't have a lesbian affair.
I just read that more women have affairs than men. I now feel lucky that my WW didn't have a lesbian affair.
Don't believe it. As long as there are men who are philanderers, cheating men will always outnumber cheating womens. The contention you read about is all part of our pop culture. Besides, how would anyone ever know who and how many of each gender has affairs? As Dr. Frank Pittman puts it, if you would lie to your spouse and cover up an affair, why would you be expected to be truthful on a survey about infidelity?
Speaking of which, I just heard earlier tonight that WW prolly had an affair, or perhaps a brief fling, with another neighbor.
I think KiwiJ is talking about another thread. At least I hope she is. You don't exactly keep up with current events. There is a 20 somethings guy married to a 20 somethings girl and is trying to have an A with her 18 YO sister and seeking validation. He seems to me to be bred as a serial cheater. This guy has some serious issues.
Todd, that's got to suck. You're better off without as we say here.
Please don't explain event singularity whatever the heck that is. It sounds exceptionally boring.
No, I don't believe Israel and Lebanon are happy neighbours again but then I don't watch the news that much. (I'm always on here or cooking dinner at news time).
I think KiwiJ is talking about another thread. At least I hope she is. You don't exactly keep up with current events. There is a 20 somethings guy married to a 20 somethings girl and is trying to have an A with her 18 YO sister and seeking validation. He seems to me to be bred as a serial cheater. This guy has some serious issues.
Yeah, just read the thread. I had the same reaction as you. He seems to allude to having sex with SIL, then when challenged denies it and again hints that he has had sex with her. He may just be a bad communicator but I wonder.
Did you chase BigK away? I couldn't have been me. I wasn't even here.
Yes I did. It was his insistence on calling a period, or a dot, a full stop. I have a lot of patience and flexibility, but not for some term like full stop when period works just fine.
Besides, I think he is busy trying to grab all the money that has dropped out of his pockets. Must be tough living down there.
Moore's law. Okay. When I was very young, my grandfather and I drove up to Canada to fish at a huge lake in Saskatchewan. At least I think that is in Canada. Never really hear much about it. Maybe it was there but they got rid of it like they are trying to eliminate Quebec. Anyway there was a game show where they showed a video of some contrived scene and the contestants had to guess what law was being broken. The video clips were really complicated so guessing the law was difficult. I still remember that it is against the law to fish with an unbaited hook in the Yukon.
I am tired of stupid laws and I am tired of being responsible. I want to break the law. I am stuck between tax evasion and gravity. Which law should I break?
I just saw on the news that there is a heated debate going on as to whether Pluto is a planet and whether or not we should be getting three new planets. Then I begin to wonder how this will affect my life. I was watching the news to try to see how many people were killed in Palestine today but there was not enough time for coverage of that. Saw two astronomers going at it pretty good though. People ready to kill each other over whether Pluto is a planet or a pluton. There really is no hope for us.
I am stuck between tax evasion and gravity. Which law should I break?
Murphy's Law.
Based on your quoted statement, you are still pulled by Newtonian gravity. Way obsolete man. It has been, what, eighty five years since that infidel, Albert Einstein, rewrote the book on gravity. Gravity is the unseen curvature of spacetime caused by the presence of matter.
So there.
Whoa, tax evasion dude? Now, there's some gravity.
Apparently, Pluto is nothing but ice. If I remember correctly, the way Pluto was discovered is that an astronemer type did a calculation and determined that Pluto had to be where it was for the Solar System to have balance. I'm certain he would be dismayed to learn that his peers declassified Pluto as a planet. My gawd, think of the effect it would have on astrologers. They would be in denial.
If Quebec were in your country, wouldn't you try to exorcise it also?
The Pluto debacle reminds me of another debate that astronomers and physicists had thirty years ago. It was at a convention. One group maintained that the universe as we know it would come to an end in 100 million years. The second group flatly stated that it wouldn't occur until 200 million years had past. The latter group called the former group "alarmists". Got quite crazy actually. It's odd to see such logical minds raging at each other full of emotions.
Do you remember Tug McGraw? Mets relief pitcher. He was interviewed by the TV ferrets who asked him a pointed question.
TV ferret: Tug, you come into a game with the bases loaded and the league's home run king at the plate. Your team is leading by three runs but you know that a slip at his time could reverse fortunes and loose the game for your team. Tug, how do you cope with all that pressure?
Tug: I adhere to the priniples of the Frozen Snowball theory.
TV ferret: What is the Frozen Snowball theory?
Tug: Well, I remember reading one time that astronomers say the Earth is coming to an end in 100 million years. The Sun will burn out and the Earth will become a giant frozen snowball tumbling through space. The way I look at it is, at that point in time, who is going to really care if I win this game or not?
Forgot. As I have told the Frozen Snowball theory to others, invariably, someone will quip: But dude, if the Sun becomes a Black Hole, the Earth will get sucked into it. Then it won't be tumbling through space will it?
Geez.
So I explain that no, a Black Hole will only suck (hate the use of that term with Black Holes) objects within twenty-four radii. That would be about 17,000,000 Km so we are safe. Well, not safe.
It would get dark.
And cold.
Anyway, long story short, Tug was correct. The Earth, minus Pluto, will become a giant Frozen Snowball tumbling through space.
So did the guy who found Pluto use Newtonian or Einsteinian physics? Oh and did he use a slide rule?
I was thinking about solving the problem entirely by using a giant laser to destroy Pluto forever. Then I changed channels and saw Extreme Makeover and decided a better use of a space laser would be to remove the craters from the Moon and make it pretty again. My theory is that it is only a question of scale.
Why, Einsteinian of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I say leave the craters alone. Someday, if I get to go to the moon, I want to jump down into a crater and see if I can hop out. If I make it, I will be so happy. If not, well, I will spend the final minutes looking at Earth from the bottom of a crater. That would be better than being blasted with a laser. Or swallowed by a giant anaconda.
Did you hear that an arrest has been made in the JonBenet Ramsey murder? I hope that the Boulder police, DA, CNN, FoxNews, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, Bloomberg and all the other locals will issue prompt and meaningful apologies to John Ramsey.
I wouldn't hold my breath however.
At other site, someone posted that the arrest had been made and that the guy confessed and knew details that only the killer would know, and others still cannot accept it. "The parents were involved, I can feel it in my bones". Maybe they will run for President one day.
Speaking of which, in what, two and a half years, America will have its first female president in the apparition of Hillary. It's an unstoppable tide formed by an unlikely coalition. God have mercy on our country.
Guess no one appreciated my analogy of using this thread as a cathartic...thought you all had a sense of humor????
So tell me...if the WS says they want to try and cut contact but state they son't feel they can do it, agree to counseling...do you just ignore the contact until you are in counseling and let the counselor address it? This is my H stand...says he just can't help it he is dependent on this OW even though it's not PA...kills me...even though he spent basically all day with DD1 yesterday he managed to call OW during her Bday party!!! UGGGHHHHHH. If I bring this up I will then be "the warden" since he feels that since he admits he can't control himself that is all he can do. When I told him we needed to separate b/c of his continued contact during our hospitalization he found an opportunity to stay somewhere for a year...now that he wants counseling I told him if we are going to commit to working on M, I feel he should not utilize the opportunity to live somewhere else...he thinks he should do it since it won't cost him anything and he'll always have a back-up if things don't work out. I told him I would consider it a luv shack and it would contribute to our definite marital demise...he has not stated his intentions on this decision yet.
I wish I could erase the last year and start over...but as mother always said; wish in one hand and @#%& in the other, see which one fills up faster!
I feel like I am back at the "just found out" phase...maybe the whole discovery about contact after the accident set me back that far...Pio tells me to quit thinking about it...as if I'm not trying...got any amnesic tonic???
I am working on finding a counselor at the moment.
Guess no one appreciated my analogy of using this thread as a cathartic...thought you all had a sense of humor????
We were not smart enough to "get it". It went over my head, what little is left of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I can tell you how to erase last year and all past years for that matter. It involves an ice pick. If you are right handed, just work the ice pick into the inside corner of your right eye. Plunge until you meet resistance, plunge some more and then start a gouging, circling motion. Good for what ails you. Won't rust, crust, bust, expode, corrode and crawls on its belly like a reptile.
I forgot who said: I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a fronal lobodomy. Ogden Nash maybe?
Ask Jack Nicholson.
As for WW and how many OM there were or could have been, I have buried it deep. I have to concentrate on my health for the next few, maybe several months. If not, counting OM won't hold much meaning if you smell what I'm stepping in.
As for WW, she is in denial again, claiming you never had an affair, that she only "confessed" to please me. Yeah. I have so many levels of proof, it is pathetic. This is OM's little head game. He was stung by my exposure and his only son, an adult, is royally pissed at him. He thinks by reweaving reality, all will be fine. Come to think of it, OM and WW do make a nice team.
2much, sorry for what you are going through. It's gotta be tough especially with three little ones at home. I have no doubt that you have so many conflicting thoughts and emotions. I think counseling would be important for you at this point. You have many things to sort out and determine where you want your life to go. Keep posting here if it helps you. I'm sure Pio doesn't mind.
How are you and the kids healing from the accident?
Thanks Todd, I am so up and down; wanting to keep working on M one minute and totally want D the next. I made an appt for counseling and once back from vacation with kids will begin. Don't know if H will have had a change of mind by then but he is obligated to go at least to the first for insurance purposes:)
Found out more bad info from kids...hate they even are involved...H of course denies it all and is pissed at the kids...can you even believe? I told him to leave them out of it cuz they aren't stupid and if they see him with an OW who talking for 30 min while my kids are practicing soccer then they are gonna ask questions and tell me about it. I'm not gonna pretend it doesn't happen just to keep things smooth or avoid conflict...if what my kids say is true then there is no way he is trying to do anything except feed me a line of dung. Time will tell. Can't wait to leave for a while.
Kids are pretty traumatized from accident...got appts for them for family counseling as well. Lots of death and dying q's from DS and anxiety and fear when in car now from all 3. Hopefully the road trip will desensitize them and prove to be somewhat healing in more ways than 1.
As for the lobatomy...sounds rather painful...I may need to explore the chemical version!!! I agree that you need to focus on your health and not worry about the WW's antics...I also know I tell myself the same thing and have huge difficulty not thinking of it so...hope you do better than me.
KiwiJ. had some good clamp referrences...perhaps over wine tasting we could entertain the possibilities of clamps for dummies?
Hello BK, Believer, Pio, and the rest of the "community"
You mean like Medusa? Madusa? However you spell it. Is Medusa Greek? I slept through the Greek mythology stuff.
I know full well what cathartic means. They inserted one of those into me, near the clamp, while in the hospital. Cause I couldn't get up to go to the bathroom.
If Quebec were in your country, wouldn't you try to exorcise it also?
...just thought I would let you know.....I can be sensitive to this subject...... (said the resident Quebecoise! although not a full-blooded one - have just lived here for about 25 yrs!)
2much,
Quote
if the WS says they want to try and cut contact but state they son't feel they can do it, agree to counseling...do you just ignore the contact until you are in counseling and let the counselor address it? ...he thinks he should do it since it won't cost him anything and he'll always have a back-up if things don't work out.
..doesn't sound like your WS is serious about working on the M! ...if he was, he would OFFER N/C with OW....he's pulling your leg!.....at best his offer is to continue cake eating a little longer....or to further justify affair and be able to say that at least 'was willing to try'!
...I went with WS to one appointment of marriage counselling....and it was just for WS to have a witness to his stated deal breaker 'he was not going to give up seeing OW'....therefore, we had to separate....but...he was 'expecting' to do some friendly co-parenting with me and live a pseudo-family life.....PLAN B has totally messed up HIS plans!
...don't fall for it, 2much! ....maybe individual counselling might be better....
Quote
Where is everyone? Pio, you on vacation or something?
It's just a joke. We kid about everything in this thread. Actually, isn't it the other way around, that Quebec wants to disembody itself from the union that is Canada?
Actually, Quebec is very beautiful. If it weren't so darn cold, I would live there myself.
So where did you live before you started living in Quebec twenty five years ago?
Actually, Quebec is very beautiful. If it weren't so darn cold, I would live there myself.
Quote
....is this coming from a Southern? ...hard to believe you would even consider it... have you been up here visiting?
Just kidding. The only place I have been to in Canada is Victoria. Go figure. I almost made it to Toronto if that counts.
Why would I leave Mecca? I mean, do you realize how many people have and are moving here? My goodness, we are almost at 5 million souls. And 4.2 million of them are stuck in traffic right now.
Well I for one think Toronto should start an air attack on Quebec and keep it up until they drive out the French or at least until the UN drafts a resolution telling them to stop which they can ignore.
I learned something. Now I know it isn't Quebecian.
Well I for one think Toronto should start an air attack on Quebec and keep it up until they drive out the French or at least until the UN drafts a resolution telling them to stop which they can ignore.
UN resolutions. They have created a bunch of peace in years gone by, haven't they?
The French. Do not get me started.
Hey, want to do something fun? Google "French Military Victories" and click the "I feel Lucky" link.
Surprise! France has never had a military victory.
Back in my premed days when I worked as a nurse's aide, I had to catharticize people every day. I was pretty good at it. Even so, there was this one guy that was just impossible. I remember another guy who was on a bad LSD trip and He had pulled out his cathartic and it was one with a 30cc balloon! That had to hurt. Anyway, it took four people to hold him down and while I was in mid procedure, one of his legs got free from one of the nurses. That definitely hurt. I almost passed out from the impact with the wall.
When I get over this mess, there are three guys I am going to track down, torture and then let them live in misery.
1. The guy who invented the MRI. I am not amused with his contraption.
2. The guy who invented radiation therapy procedures.
3. The guy who invented cathartics. You will have to use your imagination as to what I am going to do to him. It involves a meter long section of rigid copper tubing, 1/4 inch OD.
Why copper? Seems an odd choice. It will definitely leave fingerprints.
You know you are right. I will use a bowling ball instead. And wear surgical gloves. And to ensure I don't get caught, I will do the deed in Boulder, CO.
When you have finished with it I will use it on the gynacologist who sewed me up too tight after my first baby. I said to him that SF was painful and he said "I probably sewed you up too tight but it'll be fine if you keep using it" Sheesh, make that one of those gym exercise balls.
I have not made it to my mother's yet. We are still at my sister's in Houston. We plan to go to see my mother on the weekend. DDs are fine and watching Bambi on DVD. They haven't gotten to the bad part yet. WW is coming down with a cold or flu. I went to get a replacement part for my Chevy and the guy asked me for the VIN number. I asked why. He said he could do nothing without the VIN number. I told him it was a little hard to go look up. I even brought the broken part with me. Not good enough. Not without a VIN number.
If your wife is coming down with a cold, go to the grocery or drug store and get her some Cold-Eze lozenges. They work every time to make the cold go away - if you take them when you are first getting sick.
I went to get a replacement part for my Chevy and the guy asked me for the VIN number. I asked why. He said he could do nothing without the VIN number. I told him it was a little hard to go look up. I even brought the broken part with me. Not good enough. Not without a VIN number.
I know what a VIN number is. I just remember the old days when you went to the auto parts store, thumbed through a catalog and found what you needed. I bought a Harley in Dubai that had a Canadian VIN. Apparently it is easier to import Canadian VIN numbers into the USA that foreign VIN numbers. I never knew that before I bought the Harley. Harley actually reserves those number in advance.
Well regarding the planet thing - I have decided to make up my own rules. In order to qualify as a planet, it must orbit the sun within three eliptical degrees of our orbit. It must have a solid core so Jupiter is out. I started to say it must be round but quickly realized that the earth would not qualify so I have modified it to be "roundish". Pluto is definitely out. Planets are not required to have moons but they are not allowed rings. Saturn and Neptune - gone. Oh, and as always, planets are not allowed asterisks, carets or any non-alphabetic characters in their names - oh wait - I am confusing this with something else. I can't remember some of the facts on some of the planets. I know NASA has probed the rings of Saturn and several of the moons of Jupiter. I think they finally successfully probed Mars after they got that English/metric conversion right. But have they ever probed Uranus?
One of the things that happens when you live overseas and don't come to the USA very often is that changes are obvious. Americans are truly super sized compared to 10 years ago. I was amazed that McDonalds even super sized the Happy Meal.
Well, that darned planet Mercury is so fast and it is responsible, according to astrologers, for causing communication and coordination problems. Let's eliminate it.
Today, the AP barked that somewhere in the solar system, there is an asteroid that will collide with the Earth, pulverizing our planet and of course, bringing life as we know it to an end.
Today was a good stock market day. Think they reported that? Nah.
Quote
I think they finally successfully probed Mars after they got that English/metric conversion right.
Reminds me of the Bay of Pigs (aptly named BTW) invasion. The difference between military time and "civilian" time is not so subtle.
Supersize you say? If you go to Wendy's and not Biggie Size your order, they take it personally. But you have to admire their spirit. How else can they keep Americans fat?
Fast food is a delicacy we imported to the rest of the world. Gotta love it.
Have you eaten at Chic-Fil-A? Have to say, it is delicious. I'm sure it is bad for you. Try it before you return to the dessert.
As it turns out DD2 wanted nuggets from Chik-fil-a yesterday and did not finish them so I did. They were extremely good. I want more.
I lost count. How many planets are we down to? Sure makes remembering their names much easier. I would like to send the Queer Eye guys to Mars. Maybe they could give it some color. Of course, I wouldn't bring them back.
I've got a job for you guys. Find every joke made about Uranus on MB and list them.
Okay, Okay Jen. We are not original. We get it.
But little boys will be little boys.
Pio,
Chick-Fil-A is addictive. Truett Cathay, the foundre and Chairman, started his chicken recipe in a restaurant called The Dwarf House in Hapeville, Ga, also home of the Atlanta airport. Anyway, the chicken and ice cream were popular for many years before he franchised the name. He is very religious. No Chick-Fil-A will ever be open on Sunday. It is the day of rest. You have to admire his tenacity in his beliefs.
If you have not tried their chicken biscuits, do so. It is amazing how good chicken on a biscuit is. You really miss out on a lot being in the SA dessert, don't you?
While we are at with the planets, let's get rid of the darn Sun.
Speaking of which, I watched a Phil Donahue show one mornig (dont' aske why; I had strep throat) His guest was "billions and billions" Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan quipped that the Sun was a star and this shocked Phil.
"You mean what we consider our Sun, is a star?
Sagan looked perplexed (but didn't he always?) and confirmed yes.
Hey Pio, do you remember that I told you I had reached out to Good Friend and her husband to be a positive influence on WW? Guess who OM2 is? Yeah, he is married to Good Friend.
It's a small world after all, It's a small world after all.
Really makes me happy and feel like my life was a success.
Getinng rid of the Sun...hmmm...sure would solve the hot weather in Saudi.
I was really depressed today. I told WW that I am unhappy and I don't know why we are keeping this together. I feel like we are going to go back to Saudi and continue our life of misery. I asked her what she wanted. In general terms she wants to take the girls and live in Mexico. I told her that was fairly selfish and certainly not in their best interest. She wants to divorce me to take the children probably to live with a sister involved in a 10 year affair just so she can be around their grandfather who has had hundreds of affairs. I said she could have that option over my dead body. Other than that I told her it seems like we have no choice but to be miserable.
The harsh truth is that our Latinas are very emotional. Once they are convinced they are in love, there is no force on heaven or Earth that can turn them around.
I am sorry.
I am going away for a while. I am fed up with reality at the moment.
She doesn't want divorce. She just has this fantasy that if she can be around her mother, life will all be wonderful. I am happy to let her do that - but she has to do it solo.
I don't really carry what she does. I am not going to divorce her because of the girls. I can't even separate from her because of the girls. I am still being very nice to her. I am just also being very honest with her. It's not like I want to dump her so I can find someone else.
She says the girls need her right now more than they need me. I said "what about food?". They will probably need that too. She just says that when they get a rash, she needs to put cream on them. That was the extent of her contribution to their well-being.
She asked me if I wanted her to leave. I replied that I wanted to get cancer and die. That would solve everyone's problems. She said she wants to die to. I asked if it was because she missed pool boy so much. She said it was because she wanted to stop hurting me.
I told her I had lived with a year of hope - always believing that maybe we could salvage the marriage - until I found the love letters. I said I would print them and give them back to her. I don't care what she does any more.
Pio, of course if she'd gone to Mexico when she was meant to you would be away from all this drama right now and it would have been the best thing for both of you.
I think you do care, in fact I know you care. I think you're just tired of it all, as Todd said.
Is it possible for you to go back to the original plan? The plan before the drama at the airport?
It takes two to tango. She is not willing and DD1 would still throw a fit. BTW I did print out the letters and gave them to her. Then I hugged her and went to bed. I do wnat her to go to Mexico but what do I do if one of the DDs gets a rash? How would we survive?
Visiting my sister is always expensive. I thought to make a scrapbook, all you needed was a blank album and those black corner stick on things. I guess I was wrong. Sis is in to scrapbooking now. Her latest thing. WW is now too. Scrapbooking is extremely expensive - and I only have one font so far. I much prefer digital. 2GB for only $69.
Scrapbooking is a good thing your wife to do. The ladies I know that do it even have Scrapbooking parties. I know it's expensive though.
I think Gemela is a bit spoiled. She has a fantasy about poolboy, then about life in Mexico. Give me a break - 99% of the women on earth would LOVE to have her life.
I am working out a suicide plan. I am going to buy some white socks and yellow them a tad. Buy some plain black lace up shoes to go along. Then buy orange/brown corduroy straight leg slacks a bit too big in the waist and a bit too short in the inseam. I am going to yellow my teeth, mess up my hair and get a t-shirt with some stupid saying on it and, when we are in Miami. I am going to rent a car and then pretend to look lost leaving out of the airport. Any other ideas on how I can try to look British? Where can I get on of those billfold thingies to hang around my neck? Oops - that's German. Still might work though.
your 99% drops to more like 0.9% when the women realize that the life includes me being in it. Even so, with as many women as there are in the world, 0.9% of them still gives me a lot of choices.
DDs are having a very good time. We have not done much this week. Decompression from DW maybe. Sunday we are going to Arkansas. I am going to see where I can rent a boat and take DDs fishing and might even try water skiing. I also thought about a canoe trip down the White river. I just want to do simple things. No big plans.
I don't think anything has changed. That is what depresses me. I just think the Miami airport was reality hitting home. Now that she is safe again, she is back to what she was before.
Honestly, when H detaches I become very, very insecure and work like crazy to make sure he reattaches again. I don't think it's a challenge, it just makes me insecure. Or maybe it is a challenge?
Is Arkansas really a place? I love what Bill Bryson said about Iowa. His first sentence in one of his books is "I come from Des Moines, Iowa. Someone had to."
BTW I read the first two pages of "The Old Man and the Sea", decided it was going to be about an old guy who catches a humungous fish and decided I'd read enough.
I'm also very much looking forward to when DD reaches the States. I can't WAIT to hear her take on it.
And my H is British as well as being 57. He's been in NZ since he was 16 and has always been extremely cool. He would NEVER wear what you're describing. Although he made a dreadful fashion faux pas when I was in the hospital with DD. He visited me wearing socks and sandals and long pants. He got such an earbashing from me that he's never done it again.
You should ask BobPure how to look like an Englishman holidaying in Miami. (Did I just say that???)
BTW we can pick American tourists from, oh, about 10 miles away. It's the bumbag (fanny pack - which we can't say cos it's too rude) and the white socks and Nikes that does it.
I do think scrapbooking will be a good hobby for gemela. She is very artistic and creative. I am already into it for about $1500 and we are visiting two more shops tomorrow with my sister. I also learned today that apparently we don't have enough orange shades of paper. I hope she stays with scrapbooking. I would hate to see her walking the streets.
If I could have had a break from her I would have been so much happier. I may be suffering from PTSD. I really was not expecting her to be here this week. It has been hard.
Well, of course gemela would spend $1500 on scrapbooking. I would expect nothing less from her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Erm, I've spent a bit so far and have hidden it in the budget under "Household Expenses."
I think we lost ToddAC. Is believer talking about politics again?
I never read TOMATS but I saw the movie. I didn't see the point and I will definitely avoid the book.
That reminds me. DD1 got an eye exam today and needs reading glasses. Doctor says she won't need them for more than a couple of years. She was mad that she could not buy them today. She is so excited about wearing glasses.
DD1'a far vision is fine but she has trouble focusing close up. Doctor said it is normal and should go away. She cannot use her glasses for anything but reading and writing and playing Gameboy. Considering the latter, she will wear them about 90% of the time.
Yes ToddAC needs to come back. I promise I will stop the threadjack and believer can talk about world politics and I won't complain.
A few minutes a go you said Rob is so COOL. You do realize he is wearing pink shorts don't you? A couple of minutes in photoshop and you could solve that problem. Until then, I would delete that link. Pink shorts? Where did he even BUY them? Who would even MAKE pink shorts for men? Oh this is sooo troubling.
I don't even know what he looks like. I can't get above the pink shorts. I may not be able to sleep tonight. I do see you had a little Melody Lane big hair going there for a while.
Say a prayer For the pretender Who started out so young and strong Only to surrender.
I don't know why Jackson Browne's song popped in my head after I asked are you there but it did.
Anyway, do NOT go to the "other" site. It is depressing as he!!. There is a thread in which BW are wishing they were more like OW so their WH would love them more. More OP discoveries. And one soldier in Iraq ready to punch his ticket because he received the infamous Dear John letter.
Did you ever get your VIN or gas tank or whatever you needed. If not, I have connections in auto parts in Houston. Let me know. Anything but mufflers. Don't know why that is the case but... anything but mufflers.
Unfortunately, I cannot get to my clamp collection. I asked DS1 if he had any clamps. He handed me a box and my face lit up. Over fifty clamps. Not there yet, but he is young. Heck, it took me 57 years. Anyway, I now have three more. It's a good thing he has so many. The way my WW is going, I will need all of his and mine.
The "other" infidelity site forum. survivinginfidelity.com or something like that. It is where I began and bigger convinced me to leave. He was right. ToddAC stayed too long over there. The only thing worse would be TOW.
Personally, I think MB is time-consuming enough - I can't imagine keeping up with more than one site.
Pio, my youngest twin had the same eye problem but was hopeless at wearing glasses after the novelty wore off. Her eyes have corrected themselves anyway.
The problem I have with SI is that there is no consistency and it is also full of bitter people who would prefer to wallow in misery than get up off their butt and do something about their sitch. For every one promarriage post, I would get three or four PM's telling me to divorce the (w)itch immediately. I was confused enough at the time that I didn't need others' help. So bigger told me to move over here. Unfortunately I went back to that site enough to learn about bigger's crooked nose and three humped bum - partly to do with the fact that apparently a grown man didn't know that ice was slippery.
I see the site differently. I think SI is more real. MB sometimes just seems like lala land to me. It reminds me of Jonestown in that everyone here will drink the kool-aid. Plus, at SI, you can post any word you desire except the "c" word of course. Never understood about the c word.
To its credit, MB has a formal program to follow. SI is a quilt of folksy lessons others have passed on. I like both but honestly, all I do here at MB is play in your thread. Okay, I do post in other threads from time to time but not often. Usually, when I get interested in a new thread, the starter will disappear. Hiker45 is a prime example. He just vanished off the face of the Earth one day.
I wish Dr. Frank Pittman had a community website. I like his no nonsense, take no prisoners approach. He is who I am going to when I finally start IC. He loves to do reality testing up front; should be fun. Maybe he can write a book about me.
Sorry ToddAC. I have been busy hitting every scrapbook shop in Houston today. That darn Hertz NeverLost found ever single one of them.
WW needs a diversion. Do you want me to paste the link to Madame Alexander?
This would be the perfect doll to get her started. Mexico. She could add some international dolls and then settle in to conquer every GWTW doll in existence. If she gets interested in GWTW, hunker down man, hunker down. And just hand the wallet, credit cards, debit cards, checks and all accounts so she can feed her habit.
Of course, WW is now telling DS3 that she is going to sell her GWTW doll collection. Bear in mind the announced reason for buying the things in the first place was because they are "good investments". But, what will WW do? She will sell them for pennies on the dollar. Just like she did her wedding rings.
Earworm, a loan translation of the German Ohrwurm, is a term for a song stuck in one's head, particularly an annoying one. Use of the English translation was popularised by James Kellaris, a professor of marketing at the University of Cincinnati. His studies appeared to demonstrate that different people have varying susceptibilities to earworms, but that almost everybody has been afflicted with one at some time or another.
Some sufferers from earworm prefer the term "repetunitis", "stuck tune syndrome", "sound virus" or, if sufficiently acute, "melodymania." [edit]
Examples
The appropriately titled song Can't Get You Out of My Head by Kylie Minogue is well known for being a common earworm.
In the film Shrek, there is a parody of the song "it's a small world" by the Sherman Brothers, a powerful earworm.
"Tenser" said the Tensor; Tension, Apprehension, and Dissension have begun - This earworm was used to foil telepathic surveillance in Alfred Bester's award-winning science fiction novel The Demolished Man. It has become a well known meme in the sci-fi community.
Well, apparently, I breed earworms. I always have at least one. I am amphibious; I can have one song playing in my left ear and a different song in my right.
Sometimes I will keep the same song for days. Other times, I will have many songs form a rotation through my ears and head.
It's a curse.
Today, the songs were, in no particular order:
Pretty Woman by Roy Orbison Spinning Wheel by Blood Sweat and Tears Leaving Las Vegas by Sheryl Crow All I Wanna Do by Sheryl Crow Killing me Softly with his Song by Roberta Flack Baby I'm Yours by Barbara Lewis Taxman by the Beatles I am the Walrus by the Beatles Losing my Religion by REM
Well, if you leave off Small World, it is not a bad set. However, what I didn't say is that Small World took up about 90# of the time that the earworms were in my ears.
LOL Todd, as I explained, Rob has the soul of a poet, I don't think he's written a word of poetry in his life. He is a very talented artist though, as is my son. Rob trained as a teacher and had read so many poets and authors I hadn't yet heard of and I was a very well read person.
I used to write poetry as a teenager. Some of it wasn't bad, some of it was typical teenage drivel. I'd been writing various things since I was 5, but haven't written for years.
My favourite poet when I was a teenager was Leonard Cohen. All that angst got to me. I was quite a serious teenager (almost a nerd - can you believe that?) but also part of the "cool" group.
I love the English poets. La Belle Dame sans Merci and the Ancient Mariner and Shakespeare who is the greatest poet of them all. Robert Graves, DH Lawrence. The Mersey poets during the 60s in Liverpool (the Beatles are really just an extension of them). I love Sylvia Plath. There is a Western Australian writer called Tim Winton and his novels are almost poetry.
When you are old and gray and full of sleep And nodding by the fire, take down this book, And slowly read, and dream of the soft look Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;
How many loved your moments of glad grace, And loved your beauty with love false or true; But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you, And loved the sorrows of your changing face.
And bending down beside the glowing bars, Murmur, a little sadly, how love fled And paced upon the mountains overhead, And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
Yes, it is dramatic. And syrupy. I admit it. But I love it and his description of unrequited love fits my emotions perfectly. Okay, a little goofy tonight. Glad Pio is not around.
But, in addition to loving the voice of his poem, I adore the economy. I guess we admire what we don't have or cannot do. I am wordy beyond all belief. It also explains why I respect singers so much.
But I agree, I love all the British masters: Tennyson, Keats, Browning, Shelly, Milton, Rosetti, etc. Gosh cannot remember any more. That is bad.
I guess I was a nerd in school. I was the math wizard, at least one of them. And the science whiz as well. So I grazed with others like me but still the popular cliques as well. I was the president of two clubs and treasurer of another.
But I cannot write a lick of poetry.
Who was it that said that writing prose, as compared to writing poetry, was like playing tennis with no net?
I can't remember his new name.Every year in the Middle East during the month of Ramadan, they flood the TV with programs about people who converted from Christianity to Islam. Cat Stevens shows up every year. Some countries even pay a considerable amount of money to people who convert to Islam. For people who go the other way, they just kill them. Not on TV though.
Well, you must admit, however, that Cat's lyrics are kinda deep:
Oh peace train sounding louder Glide on the peace train Come on now peace train Yes, peace train holy roller
Everyone jump upon the peace train Come on now peace train.
I am especially impressed by the line, "Come on now peace train". That is sharp and profound. And the alliteration, man.
And BigK, I now understand your reference to Cat with regard to the "Another Saturday Night" song. No, didn't have him in mind. The song was originally recorded by Sam Cooke.
Doing okay. Doing better mentally that I would have guessed, although not one hundred percent. Physically, I am a wreck. The nausea had gotten better but today saw its return. Other than that, very weak and no stamina.
The worse part is I got a Cat earworm.
How are you? Any recent earthquakes on the left coast?
Of course we've heard of Mark Twain. I loved Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn was a set text in HS. Do you want hear about Huck and Jim's travels down the Mississippi River as a metaphor. Interestingly, Easy Rider had just come out and we compared the two road trips. I wanted to BE Miss Grey, my English teacher. She used to sit on the desk with her legs crossed.
Phillip Roth? John Irving? Mario Puzo? John D. McDonald? Saul Bellow? E.L. Doctorow? Joseph Heller? Anton Meyer?
How about music. Elvis Presley? REM? B-52's? Wide Spread Panic? You may have to ask DS a few of these. Jackson Browne? Bob Dylan? Counting Crows? Sheryl Crow? Allman Brothers Band?
I am always curious which of our exports make it across the various ponds.
LOL Todd, all of them. All the names you mentioned are VERY familiar to me.
American culture is alive and well in this country, in fact it thrives. Visitors here from the US are always very struck by how alike our cultures are with subtle but very important differences.
And what about the AFLAC duck? Do you know who he is?
You've got me there.
LOL we do have cows. Lots and lots and lots of them. NZ is one big dairy farm. The whole country was built on sheep and cows.
Actually, the differences probably aren't that subtle, they're probably huge. But considering my whole experience of American culture is through TV, movies, music, news and meeting Americans, what would I know?
Did Polish jokes make their way through NZ, oh, about three decades ago?
They were quite cruel. I had a good friend whose parents immigrated (emmigrated?) from Poland and he and his family were not amused. Well, he made a trip to visit his relatives and when he came back, he was so excited. Apparently, over in Poland, likely as a backlash against Polish jokes, the Poles had developed some pretty clever American jokes.
This was his personal favorite:
How many Americans does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
The difference between a lamb and a sheep is about a year. Actually, not true, there are lambs, then two tooths, then hogget, then mutton (or something like that - I don't live in the big dairy farm - I live in the big city).
Yes, I've heard of all those states, no, I haven't heard of Vidalia onions.
We had, and still do have, Australian jokes and the Australians have NZ jokes. All of them are about sheep. Irish jokes and blonde jokes are also very big.
Two blondes walk into a building.
You'd have thought one of them would have seen it.
Vidalia onions grow only within Vidalia, Georgia. They are the sweetest onions in the world. Some people eat them like apples; not me, but some people.
I do know some sheep jokes and at least one involves a NZ man in pink shorts..
Do you know who Ted Turner is?
Q: What do you call a blonde with half a brain? A: Gifted!
Q: How do blonde brain cells die? A: Alone.
Q: What do you call a blonde with 2 brain cells? A: Pregnant.
Q: What do you call 10 blondes at the bottom of a pool? A: Air Pockets
Q: A blonde is walking down the street with a pig under her arm. She passes a person who asks "Where did you get that?" A: The pig says, "I won her in a raffle!"
Q: If a blonde and a brunette fell off a building, who would hit the ground first? A: The brunette - the blonde would have to stop for directions!
The assistant asked the blonde if she would like her pizza cut into six pieces or twelve.
"Six please" she said, "I could never eat twelve!"
I was wondering the same. Let's see, you took care of the French and British. And Germans. I the French Canadians and the Poles. And Aussies now. I would say NZ but thus far my comments are limited to the pink shorts. No need to go off on the entire population when you have a poet in pink shorts.
Todd we sound more like Aussies but not so drawly. Flatter and more nasal. If we sound like anyone, we sound like South Africans.
There are degrees of poshness in our accents. Very few regional differences, but definitely class differences (and we're an egalatarian, classless society. Yeah, right).) Class differences in the grammar we use as well.
I always laugh when I see WAT's "Master Baiter" because I pronounce Master as Mahster and the joke loses quite a bit.
I don't have an exact count but I would say that I have added about 400 pages of scrapbook paper to the collection. I have still yet to see one finished page.
I have been very busy going back through all my digital photos recoloring any clothes to acceptable colors. Fortunately I don't own pink shorts.
On the drive yesterday (10 hours) we bought a National Enquirer at a stop. One affair after another. I asked WW what she would do if she was alone some place and ran into someone like Brad Pitt and he took interest in her and invited her to his room for SF, what would she do? She said she didn't know. Good answer. I told her I didn't believe in marriage any more. If people want to have an affair, they should just do it. I was mad. I stopped talking. If she had said one more word, I would have told her I wanted a divorce. I didn't want to have that conversation in front of the kids.
Once again I am happily detached.
BTW, I only claim offending the French. Pointing out that the English or Europeans in general all have very distinct dress styles is not offensive. Have you ever had a 10 hour layover in Schipol and had nothing to do but watch people walk by? I will bet you that I can correctly guess their nationalities about 90% of the time.
Offending the French? Why not. It is wrong to be French. Simply WRONG! Someone should stop it.
My memory is foggy but I think there some was mention of Brits with yellow teeth?
Anyway, a month before I moved out, WW rented the movie "Unfaithful". At least I think it was the name. Anyway, Richard Gere's wife has an affair with a single Spanish guy. WW used the movie to announce that if she ever had the opportunity to have SF with Gere that I would just have to understand. She lovingly laughed through every "love" scene in the movie between Gere's wife and her infidel.
I told her that of course she would expect me to understand if she had SF with Gere. She expected me to understand her SF with a total jerk and looser. Somehow, I was supposed to understand and accept Gere. Obviously, the chances of it happening are remote, but a girl can dream can't she?
Tod I saw that movie, but I prefer Madison Bridges with Clin Eastwood and Glenn Glose... By the way I bought it and my H said that it was because I had an A... and he got furious... Have you see the movie? I like it when I saw it for first time I have never a clue that I become a WS later... I saw it several years ago..
I guess the name Martinez threw her. Anyway, I wouldn't want to tell her he was French and burst her bubble. Hey, wait, she wouldn't care one little bit. If she picked OM1 and OM2, her standards are pretty low. Who knows, she might even go for a Frenchman.
No, never saw Bridges Over Madison County. My W told me that Clint Eastwood cried in that movie. I will not pay good money to watch Clint Eastwood cry. I want to see him behind the sights of a .44 Magnum. Prefarbly hunting down OM.
As for Unfaithful, WW was just a little too enthralled with that movie to suit me. That's okay, if she ever wants to see it again, she will have to buy another copy. I filed the other one in the same filing bin that she filed SAA in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
And I have to say that I am not a fan of Richard Gere. But I must admit that when he took that bowling ball or whatever it was and knocked the French guy with the Spanish name upside the head and killed him, well, for that one moment, I thought he was a pretty decent guy.
Todd, Clint Eastwood WAS the OM in that movie. It's an unbelievably icky movie and I thought that when I watched it very much pre-A. I've never watched Unfaithful and never intend to.
Pio, I can't believe gemela said "I don't know" when you asked her about Brad Pitt. That is just pathetic.
Yes. A well crafted lie might have gone down better. Maybe she is finally adopting radical honesty? She told me today she is homesick for Mexico. I asked her what is stopping her from going? I will gladly buy her a ticket. I told her I need a vacation from her. I still have feelings for her but if we continue on as we are doing nothing, it won't be long before I hate her. I told her to go to Mexico for an indefinite period of her choosing. I reminded her that, since her return ticket is on BA, she can even do an extended layover in the UK. I told her that she is making my life miserable and I would be happier without her than with her. Wait, what exactly is Plan A again? Where is my SAA?
In "Unfaithful," Olivier Martinez plays Paul, the man who turns Connie Sumners' (Diane Lane) head and leads her down an irresistible, dangerous path of infidelity and deceit. The character of Paul wasn't originally conceived as being French, however director Adrian Lyne felt instinctively that Olivier Martinez was perfect for the part.
"Olivier has a nice sense of humor. The fact that he's French adds another layer, too.
Well....for the curious....back from NYC....'safe and sound' ....and had a terrific time with boys....
In WS's weekly phone message, says he hoped we had a good time and had 'thought about us on the weekend'...not surprised....we used to 'enjoy' our family vacations.... must have brought back 'good memories'... this time he wasn't there!
....let him know that we 'missed him, too'... meaning: so, why the heck did you leave us? ....too proud?...wanting it all or nothing?
....of what I know of S/WS.....he never meant to 'leave' his family.....just wanted to ADD a mistress! ....reality of PLAN B is hitting him hard....not hard enough, though...
...just for the record...very proud of myself of how far I have come...one year ago...I was a 'classified' basketcase..
...I still have a lot of work....as one of my tools is 'avoiding' triggers.... still not seeing friends that we saw as a 'family'.... still haven't gone to our cottage.... as IT was our biggest family project.. although miss it very much....
been reading about PTSD.... and fallout of A definitely falls into category...
I see both of my boys...in various ways...turning to me for reassurance, security, and comfort....as they can't trust their dad.... don't think WS hads 'calculated in' the loss column.....
....so I am trying really hard to seem, if not be, the ROCK that they need....
....did tell you guys....that my beautiful two boys are my biggest motivators for 'keeping it together'?....and my dear aging parents?...for whom I don't want to become a burden as they have done enough in their lives and deserve a break ...my dear dear brother?....who I KNOW is in it over his head with family and work responsibilities... some of my dear friends?...who have GIVEN enough already....and ME....because I deserve to be treated better!
...sorry....I know... I am getting mushy.... and have gone way over my 10 lines limit.....FOR SURE!
Sorry, Pio, for the t/j..... I think it's supposed be your thread...hard to tell.....
by the way....always meant to ask.....what does the title mean: TKO?
...the plan was that Gemela go to Mexico....now what is the plan?
...because otherwise....without a plan.....you are leaving a lot of room for reacting and DJs...as some of the exchanges you reported having with her suggest....
Quote
Wait, what exactly is Plan A again? Where is my SAA?
I am now reading the National Weekly News. I just finished a facinating article about how the US army is fighting vampires in Afghanistan. I am not reading about the millineum hourglass. It says we have less than 10 years left. That's encouraging. At least this infidelity stuff won't hurt much longer.
Thought I would let you know that I moved out of my's sons's place today. I am in a temporary holding pattern in a place uniquely called "extended stay". It's me and about eight other soon to be divorced guys. Don't have to drink alone for a while.
This is temporary. I cannot stay here too long. Grown men wondering around with that aimless, desparate look in their eyes, wondering what happened to their families. Met the guy down the hall already. We used to work for the same company but didn't know each other.
ToddAC: So, what brings you here? Man: Divorce Man: you? ToddAC: me too ToddAC: what happened? Man: she had an affair, fell in love and that was the beginning of the end. Man: you? ToddAC: Me too.
No, it is indeed a small world after all no matter where you go. I have seen them in the hall already. In suit pants, wingtips and starched white dress shirts, sans ties. Lost. Bewildered.
Okay, why did I move? I could not take any more of DS1's French GF.
She and DS1 came in from dinner late the other night. We had a torrential rain earlier that evening. She walked through the door throwing objects of some sort and bit... er... complaining about something. DS1 tried to appease her and calm her down. She wouldn't. She started kicking things.
Finally, DS1 said: You act like it is someone's fault!
Do you know how when someone is talking about you and you have no idea they are talking about you but yet you know they are talking about you?
So, DS1 walks over to my computer room and asks: Dad, you didn't hear anybody knock at the door did you?
I beg your pardon?
You don't hear the UPS man knock at the door did you?
No. If I had heard the UPS man, or any other man, or any other gendered person knock on the door, I would have answered the door. (I obviously knew where this was heading and why and was not amused).
Well, GF UPS package sat in the rain and got soaking wet.
And?
Well, just wondering if you heard anyone knock at the door?
Do we have to go through this again?
So, the next day, without the French bombshell around, I surfaced our conversation again. I asked DS1 what the problem really is.
Well, you know, her package got wet and you staying here and all.
Oh. Let's ponder a question: is it me staying here or her staying here? She seems to be the one with the problem, not me.
I understand. She is spoiled.
She's French.
That too.
I'm moving out.
Okay.
So, that being the preamble, here am I with the other middle aged pre and post divorcees.
Happy as a pig in mud.
And all I can think about are two triggers, speaking of triggers.
One is the movie Unfaithful. I cannot tell you how much WW enjoyed the "love" scenes. After all that has happened, they made me sick.
And the other trigger and I don't know why it surfaced, but seeing OM's vehicle, or at least a vehicle like his.
Triggers are inexplicable I suppose. They torque us at some level we like to pretend doesn't exist.
Todd - I suggest you look for a house with some roommates. That would be a better situation. I had to take in roommates to make it, and it was a GREAT experience.
Here are some great reasons why people (of either gender) should line up to roommate with ToddAC:
He will cook – once! You will learn a new word every day. He has a clamp for all occasions. His cold sarcasm is better than therapy. With his memory you can always claim to have already paid the rent!
ToddAC; on a more serious note. Have you filed? Is there any reason not to? Has there been any attempt or effort to reconcile or is there any reconciliation in the future you can see?
BTW - I don’t really understand the bad rap France and all things French are getting in the USA. OK so they did not agree to Iraq but from what I remember from my history lessons then France was the first country to recognize the Colonies as a sovereign country. They also supported the rebel insurgents (Colonists) with money, arms and soldiers. They basically financed the new country in early days. Unlike the “friendly” English then French troops have never torched the White House (1812). Not that I’m complaining. The disdain for all things French has opened a new and exiting world of good red wines from Australia, South-Africa and Chile that was virtually unknown when the world was French-friendly.
Here's a tangent from the room mate discussion: Maybe I should start a thread of my own but this one seems to be kinda free wheeling, anything goes so I hope you don't mind if I interject myself.
I haven't spent any time here on this board or the infidelity board even though I believe ex was having either an EA or PA. Because ex never admitted to an affair & I choose not to confirm my suspicions I wonder how this affects my recovery. I don't know how I feel about our attempted "reconciliation" knowing what I know now.
It's likely I'll never know the facts & I wonder if I should consider my suspicions as fact & if this will help my at all.
Any thoughts? Let me know if you'd rather have me off this thread doing all this on one of my own. I came here because I liked the back & forth between the people on this thread.
Todd, you talking about the situation with your son & his gf & your subsequent moving made me wonder if I've ignored something critical in not working more with the idea of infidelity. I can't really say why.
Please stay on this thread. The more, the merrier. I do however take exception to your interjecting yourself here. We don't allow drugs. You really need to kick that habit. BTW, what drugs are you interjecting and how often do you do it?
Next time you want to interject yourself, JUST SAY NO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I am not familiar with your sitch. You are divorced and thinking about reconciliation? I have not gotten that far so am only guessing but I imagine that it is a bad idea to obsess over what you think may have happened. Can you plainly tell your ex how you feel?
Jeez... Believer and her cows monopoly in Oaxaca. DEA fugitive bragging about his interjections and contraterroristical bashing of France.
This thread is starting to look scary. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
While you disamble and disable France until it's Romanic origins may I protect the champagne boxes? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
piojitos Im having bad time, in every area in my life.. family, work, and healt..
As a WS I deserve it right? ok I accept it, but I need an advice about how can I help my H to stop blaim me for everything! (I mean his point is clear enough) I deserve problems that Im facing at home as I wasnt concentrated in my duties as a consecuence of my A..
I have another questio for you, how can gemela could help you to stop "caerte mal" I mean every day you sounds that your bad feelings about she are growing... you need some space and vacations far away from her right?
I lived similar situation during my three days vacations wiht my H... He was like "harto" of me..
It was my birthday and he wasnt with me because of work responsabilities... for me that was so so sad.. but I need to figure out how could be my life alone if we finish divorcing..
Ok, the idea is how gemela could help you to avoid those bad feelings about her...
You don't Spanglish? Gosh Todd, those microweaves left you with huevos rancheros in your upper floor.
I'm practicing Mexico national sport, rumor, to spread rumors. So if Believer is kindly buying some cows for her friends in Oaxaca, I said some cows were thousands of cows, endangered species for sure. You are not in a Bed and Breakfast, I hope, but in a conspiracy house and Pio is getting a piojito.
To do piojito to someone to scracht, softly, said someone's head.
You don't deserve anything bad to happen to you. Stop thinking that way. To answer your question, gemela can easily change my feelings by simply making an effort to commit to the M and try to recover. I have also said that I think she needs to have some remorse for what she did. Not because I want to feel holier than thou but because I think she needs to understand that what she did was wrong. Anyway, I have told gemela what she can do. She makes some effort and then goes into idle mode and quits. Gemela could easily make things better. She doesn't seem that interested.
I liked Huatulco. What happened to it? I will say that I prefer the Atlantic to the Pacific. I think the Pacific ocean was badly named.
Mushrooms Tod, Oaxaca is famous for it's mushrooms with alucinations qualities. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
So, does that explain why you think you are tear?
Quote
Ten and twenty is a metaphor of gun?
Ten twenty is a CB term for what is your location. Based on your name, I assumed you may be French and was anxious, therefore, to launch into the next round of French bashing.
Now that I know you are tear are the same, I understand the Spanglish comment.
And no, there is no split personality whatever. But there are hullicinations. I now know your twenty: you live under a toad's stool. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Buah, you don't play nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
I was trying to make you laugh. I read about your DL and your moving out.
Sorry if my English effort was overdone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I hope you get a nice, comfy place soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Edited to add:
...a nice and comfy place to LIVE many happy years. Sorry Tod, it just downed on me how that phrase could be understood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
DL- Daugther in law? or next XGL? I could go and kick her French bttm if you want. I have to addmit, I find that kind of French intensity a little bit tiring.
Can I ask a serious question? I don't always keep up with current events so I have a doubt about something. At one time I got the impression that tear was posting under several aliases. Is that true and, if so, what are they all. I don't mind if she is or not I am just trying to keep it all straight. There are several posters that seem to have very similar situations to tear's. Maybe just coincidence.
tear,
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing. I don't have the answer to tell you how to make your husband stop blaming you. From your earlier posts, I get the idea that he has some maturity issues. Regardless of what you have done, God does not punish you for it but part of your issues may be self-induced. For example, if you are depressed all the time, that rubs off on people you are around. It affects your work and your relationships. It also affects your health.
ToddAC, I don't know how they are hacking this email account. I just read about a CIA spy cat. The cat understands Arabic completely and is used to infiltrate Al Qaeda meetings. The CIA is simply amazing at what they can do.
Hola, I'm not angry, I was playing too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I understand the confusion, I hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I started to login around the same time that Tears logs in, Mexico lunch time, because I'm following one of her threads. I didn't expect her to post here at the same time I was tdjk Pios thread. I was waiting to see an answer from her to something I had writen in her thread.
I think she has some reasons to post under different names. I don't know the reasons.
I started to post to her when I noticed that we were both from Mexico but not only for that reason. I think she has been very persistent in her desire to get better and to stop her EA or EA's. I think she has two big disadvantages right now: A very heavy schedule and an illness not yet diagnosed that could be messing around with her ability to focus and to put herself together.
At the begining of Tear's thread she said she was diagnosed Hypotiroidism and I have two relatives with that illness. My first post to her was about that and the way it could affect her emotionally and mentally.
Now it seems the doctors are not completely sure if it's that, she wrote in a recent post that they have doubts about their original diagnosis. My family experience is that frecuently in Mexico endocrinology illness are not well diagnosed. I started to write to her because of that. She looks for help but maybe between her lack of time and the language barrier she can't grasp completely the general ideas. I don't know.
I know MB changed me, I hope forever. I lurk since 2002 and join in 2004. I don't feel qualify to give advice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> and I'm not married. I just post when I feel that I can say something usefull and to tease Tod <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Actually I came to this thread to tease Believer first. She put the 180 list when I asked for one in the GF yesterda and I felt shy to chat to her in that thread although she has always been her usual nice and cool to me too. I have chatted with her a little in the past and I had read about the cows, I couldn't resist the impulse to wrote that joke.
HI! The cows are 4 hours (don't know if by bus or walking) north of Tehuantepec, Oaxaca. There are 4 of them now, and 2 are pregnant. I'm waiting for pictures - there are no computers in the village. In fact there isn't even a bank. The preacher had to go to Tehuantepec to pick up the money for the cows.
larousse and tear are not the same person. tear does have some other screen names but larousse is not one of them. I think I remember that larousse posted to me way back when gemela was posting. I think I remember that larousse's post to me was somewhat unkind. I could be wrong. I also bet she was probably right.
I don't know much about larousse excapt that she is very smart and has given some great advice. I think she posted a bit to gemela.
I think larousse sounds very French. Should we bash her?
No I do not use AutoCad. I have no need for that kind of precision. I do a lot of drawing but I generally use Flash. It is very precise and very easy to draw/animate with. I have some other drawing programs like Freehand and another one I can't remember the name of. I never use them because I find Flash so much faster. I used AutoCad way back on version 2 and 3 but now it must be up to V13 or something.
Yummy, just to imagine a delicious Oaxaca chees over a tlayuda. Thehuantepec is such a special place and the people is very warm. You know Believer, your empathy and kindness towards them touches me deeply. Chapeu
(Tlayuda: Oxaca typical chees in rolled in threads.)
I'm Mexican, born in Mexico city 39 years ago and live in Mexico city. When I joined MB I choose the name of something that were close to my sight in the desk so I could remmeber easily. In front of me was a shelf with books and the big letters of the Larousse dictionary. I have two big Larousse, the French-Spanish one and the English-Spanish, that may explain my confused English.
I worked in a French speaking office for three years, three years ago so my Frenchness impregnation is somehow deluted now.
You can keep bashing France to your heart content as long as I have the keys of the Cava.
I don't know why the Page not Found appears. It doesn't appear if you are not logged in but then you can not post. lol
Engineers don't use AutoCAD. Drafters use AutoCAD. Engineers just approve the drawings so they don't care what software made it.
I still want to know what all tear's aliases are/were. There was a confused something, a regretted something. Are those tear? I just want to make sure I keep it straight when I read other threads.
tear,
What I want to know from you is what is it you did that you seems to think was so bad? I am not talking about the A. Yes the A was wrong. Okay. But why do you beat yourself up so much? The rest of us know you don't need to. What we can't yet figure out is how to get you to understand that.
Engineers don't use AutoCAD. Drafters use AutoCAD. Engineers just approve the drawings so they don't care what software made it.
lol.
Well, the whole point in asking you was that I was going to ask you: how the he!! do I used ACAD? It is a complicated program. Or perhaps my AD's haven't cut in yet.
How long does it take BTW for the AD's to work? I am taking the required 21 per day.
You are right Tear, ty, that's what I was trying to say.
Pio, I hope I was not mean to you. What I remember is you insisting the G twin was saying her and her family were G family. I didn't understand that from the chat, to me it was clear you and the girls were G family. Now I understand that a terapeut told you to keep G with you those months. It seems it worked so well at least to break the addiction.
I'd written something about my history but got the dreaded ..form no longer valid. I seem to get that more when I'm a bit lengthy but have gotten it at other times as well. What I did find that works to avoid that is write some, click continue, write some more, & so on.
I'm too tired now to write it again but will tomorrow.
I said you were probably right. I have no problems. I think you are great. Just mean to me sometimes but still great. On the other hand, who isn't mean to me?
ToddAC,
Whay in the he** do you seem to think you need AutoCAD? AD's? I actually stopped taking mine by accident. I don't see any difference.
nams,
Since MB "upgraded" their software, there seems to be a timelimit. I highly recommend you write your long posts in Word or some other software and copy and past. Fortunately with the new upgrade you can use the "back" button on your browser and go back to what you had written. When you see your post, select all and "copy". Then go back and find the thread again, post a reply again and past what is in the memory (what you copied) and submit. Does that make sense? If you are careful, you will not lose your carefully crafted words. The previous version of the forum software would not allow you to use the "back" button so maybe it is an upgrade after all. Now I can already tell that ToddAC is going to be asking me to explain that all night long. Give it a try and you explain it to him. He is trying my patience. I am sure he is trying to design a new clamp and I just can't be bothered.
Whay in the he** do you seem to think you need AutoCAD? AD's? I actually stopped taking mine by accident. I don't see any difference.
Architectural drawings. I first tried ACAD but at $4,000 per copy, decided that I don't need 3D that badly. Actually, I don't need it at all. But I do need ACAD LT. I can draw in 2D and think in 3D. It is an affliction that I don't need to spend $4,000 on.
AD's? I have had trouble concentrating. Thought the AD's might help. They haven't. They have caused other unwanted problems. Guess I will stop. Can I go from taking 21 per day to zero suddenly? Hope so. It's what I have been doing.
Well I learned a long time ago that extrapolation is dangerous so I have no opinion about going from 21 to zero. I did go from 17 AD's a day to zero with no problem. Beyond that I have no opinion.
L- Two came already pregnant. That was the first two. But I found out they were older cows. The new ones we bought Saturday are young - 18 months.
Todd - My pregnant days are over. 21 anti-D's a day ought to do the trick. For me, they worked on the 21st day. I do A-cad. I work with a bunch of engineers (SIGH), and only one does it.
P - He is BRILLIANT, but KING OF THE NERDS. He has a pocket protector with pens, glasses, highwater pants, a wrinkled shirt that doesn't match, and no sense of humor. He and his wife went to Las Vegas last year, and he spent time in some hotel where the elevators go diagonally, instead of straight up and down.
Believer, besides your kidness, I'm impress by the natural way you conecct with your friends from Oaxaca.
...but thinking further it still sounds suspicious, pregnant cows slavery perhaps? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Pio, let's bash the French while we all share a bottle of champagne, in an open air bistro at Marseille, eating some grapes rolled in bacon, waiting for a soup Boullabaise and finishing with some nice chees, more champagne, chocolats and cognac. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
:::::::::::
Have you wondered why some many Americans are in Saint Tropez this summer and so many British in Hampton* US? Me neither.
:::::::::::
I think the French have a great ability to recreat their image, time and time again, I would say they are the spin doctors of internationl image, sauf in US bien sur. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
The wet noodle is only pretense, fog? Their army and their army industry is highly developed and kicking. Complex topic, their military history in North Africa from Argel, Tchad to Ivory Coast is full of contradictions and difficult decisions.
Anyway, I don't think their motives were wet noodles shoe's laces.
Let's talk about your plans for nice accomodations Tod.
I just remembered my first work experience with a French. My boss assigned me to be his 'assistan' for some days while he dealed with our company. One day we were waiting, the French man and I to go into my boss's office for a meeting. As Pio knows appointments in Mexico have always some flexibility, some minutes late, etc... The French man got really impatient, anxious, walking side to side in the waiting area, until he starte to say loud, 'I hate to wait', several times with exasperation.
After the meeting my boss made everything possible to make him wait, always.
So, my experience is that for some French it is cool to express loudly their disappointment or frustration even in front to the most small adversities or discomforts and some kick things a little or make big gestures with their hands. I learnt to not to pay any attention to it because at the end it really is a cultural thing more than a personality fault. IMHO
Nevertheless I voluntier to go to dooze your, I hope soon ex GF in law, with some salsa tabasco or Jalapeño juice.
Let's talk about your plans for nice accomodations Tod.
First of all, the sooner the better. This place is so depressing. I plan to rent a condo probably. In fact, there is a new development less than two miles from here I am very interested in. Don't want to buy one yet because... well, just because.
Next is to get my eyes fixed if it is possible so that I can pass the driver's visual exam and get my driver's license back and then, mercy, get a car. When I have my independence back, I will feel so much better.
One positive note today. My favorite Chinese restaurant is a mile from here. It is a slightly upscale restaurant so I was certain that they did not deliver. But, I decided to call them. They do deliver. And did I am happy to report.
Pot stickers, chicken with garlic sauce and steamed rice. It was yummy.
Hey Todd, you had a great dinner, that's why you were so quiet, you didn't want to share with us your delicious dinner and you left us suffering burps for to many champagne burbles.
You know the think I enjoyed about walking the streets on winter days? A 2 euros shot of cognac in any corner cafe. Cognac is extremely expensive here in Mx.
You know the thing I enjoyed about walking the streets on winter days? A 2 euros shot of cognac in any corner cafe. Cognac is extremely expensive here in Mx.
Know what I enjoy about walking the streets on winter days?
Do not get me started on global warming. It is a hoax. Or, at least if it is a valid phenominon which I doubt, it is not man made.
The enviro-whacko group in the eighties was preaching "global cooling". When that was disproved, they overnight switched to warming.
A Russian scientist predicts that the year 2012 will usher in a thirty five year period of global cooling.
Now, let's think about this. Everyone is currently swapping their home windows for double ply, buying low flow toilets, energy saving appliances, cellulouse insulation, etc in an effort to combat the mythical GW. Keep those old windows, toilets and appliances. Then starting in the year 2012, reinstall the old, wasty stuff so we can warm the place back up.
Amenities? Let's see, gym, pool, home theater, well, condo theater, bar and something else I cannot remember. The best is one of the best steakhouses around is a one block walk, as is plentiful shopping and other eateries. Everything from California Pizza Kitchen to upscale Northern Italian.
I keep talking about food don't I? Back to the Chinese dinner, I will be able to make four or five dinners from it. I am still on the infidelity diet apparently. And sleep plan but that is getting better because I am so tired all the time.
I do know that in Mexico it is considered rude to be on time. yes we did bail the French out twice. My question is why? I guess this explains why affairs are so accepted in France. They have no reality. Everything is one big fantasy including the belief that France is important.
That URL seems to side-step the question. Oh well. Are you French? Careful how you answer that - you might get bashed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
LOL! You said "national sport" didn't you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
But seriously, no, I am not French. Just worked and lived in various countries, including France, and didn't have the same impression. Actually, I found that no place is more accepting of infidelity than good ol' Corporate America....so no URL, no stats, just empirical evidence.
Did someone mention cognac???? HHHmmmmm, would it be completely and utterly inappropriate to sip a cognac in 90 degree temps???? What the hay! I will have one tonight in celebration of my MB friends...how's that for an excuse to booze?
Did you miss my long winded blabbery? I was out of the internet loop visiting those who are a bit back in time if ya know what I mean. Still out of town but found a wifi spot to hide away in for a bit.
My kiddos are having a blast and being spoiled so what more can I ask at this point. I am being rehab'd from the MVA against my will...I have walked more in the past week than I have in months! I am happy to be alive and wish I could continue to escape reality. My H calls 5+ times/day and texts...I have no idea what is going on in his head since he is calling and texting OW just as much as ever.
I emailed him that I was sad, frustrated and not sure of what i wanted. I told him he should think about what he wants from M, from me and for us before we begin MC next week. Any words of advice of what I should/need to do prior to going? Do I need to list goals etc or should I just wait and see what happens. My gut wants me to draw up a M history, along with my personal goals for MC but then my H would just say I am a control freak and can't even let the MC therapist do their job. I just think it would be helpful and allow the sessions to focus on us and not on our history and multiple issues if I could provide a summary prior to counseling...am I crazy, a controller or do you think this is a good idea? I could have it ready just in case it is requested...???
Pio, I did not stomp the bed with my boot...thought about it but wasn't even worth the effort. At the time I was so tired and depressed I couldn't find the energy. My family has a personal goal of piling weight on me during the visit... the only bonus of infidelity is that I am now finally at my prechildren weight of 115 which no matter how much diet and exercise I have tried in the past I just couldn't peel that last 10 pounds off...so what do they want to do????? Negate the single silver-lining in the whole infidelity nightmare!!!! Go figure.
Todd, Sounds like you may need to come visit my family...they will wear you out until sleep is a savored delicacy that once you get the opportunity you will be obtunded for days...they will force feed you beyond belief and still insist that you look like a skeleton and need to eat. I hope you are feeling a bit better. Don't worry, your WS has miles to go to compete in the OP olympics with my H!!!!
Kiwi, Congrats!!!
You all provided a few hours of entertainment for me just trying to catch up!
It appears the community is growing.
I won't have the opportunity to get back on until next week so feel free to have fun at my expense.
Any MC feedback or advice is appreciated.
Luna, I have the same thoughts as you expressed but have shoved them in the back of my mind and will try to be objective to start. I am a realist and know the possibility of this being another cake-eating tactic is very high on the list of possibilities. I hope the counselor we have is hardcore and won't fall for BS and demands transparency to begin...if so, we will be able to judge intentions immediately!
Oops. Sorry if my original comment sounded supercilious. Speaking in TimesNewRoman can be damning sometimes. My feeling was that Hoax implies "consipiracy"...as opposed to just short sighted science.
But the site supports your position in the sense that it calls for better science on the matter...Are you a climatologist?
Hola all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
*Carefully testing the water with the top of my left foot and looking to all sides in case a champagne bottle a pregnant cow or wet noodles of yesterday chinese dinne flight my way.*
I am not around much at the moment because I am doing this course.
"For cross-functional teams to work effectively there are certain team participation skills that are useful in aiding the decision making process and focussing direction. The training has been organised with this in mind and covers:"
Thanks for the tip piojito. My computer skills are...ah...limited, but I'd probably be able to manage the cut & paste you spoke of.
Since I'm D & the suspected infidelity is behind me I think I'll let it ride.
I'd like to know for sure though I don't know what that will do for me. I don't respect ex, don't want him back. The only thing I want from ex's gf is to be nice to my boys. ex & gf have to live with themselves. If they want to lie to others about the time line & origins of their R that's their choice. People will see through their lies & make their own judgements. My boys do. When my youngest was just barely 10 he asked if I thought his father was seeing gf before we even mentioned D to them. I mentioned this to then H as I thought he ought to know what YS was thinking. DID NOT go over well. I was accused of putting thoughts & words into YS mouth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Oldest son & I touched on the subject a couple of weeks ago & it's clear he's considered the idea too.
I guess the fact is infidelity affects us for a long time.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Kiwi, do you mean he should take his head out of ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Making him angry never fails to make him appear <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
My feeling was that Hoax implies "consipiracy"...as opposed to just short sighted science.
It is a conspiracy.
The goal of the conspirators is to change our lives as we know it. Many of the enviro-whackos are socialists hence you see the constituents that comprise the conspiracy populating what at first glance seems like diverse "think tank" groups. They are anti everything that is distantly related to capitalism.
A good example is PETA. Want another one? The Center for Science in the Public Interest. These folks are emaciated vegetarians who are attempting to turn the food industry upside down.
Todd, I mean it. It is not good for you to be in a depressing place and that place sounds like the pits.
Well, it fills a need right now. The need is to be away from DS1FGF. Barf City!
The worse thing about her is that she thinks she can cook. Did I mention she is French? I had recipes for Puerto Rican Arroz Con Gandules and Pasteles. She purposedly omitted the cilantro in the Arroz and added mushrooms and cheese. It was awful. She is French and fancies herself a gourmet cook.
Anyway, DS1 and I both tried to be polite, choke back the tears and say: "It's good." Okay, honestly, I didn't say anything. I spit mine out. I should mention that she is French.
Anyway, it is depressing here and I plan to move as soon as possible.
Notice to all those who worship, savor, favor or otherwise hunger for French food, recipes, cognac, yogurt and tires, this is not my thread, but I think I can speak for Pio that the sole purpose of bringing anything French into a post is to bash France. We will not tolerate any positive mention of France or French.
BTW, my subordinate is away "sick" today. She knows I'm meant to be on my course and now I can't leave the office unmanned(womanned) so I miss out YET AGAIN.
I remember the neutron bomb and it would be perfect. But could we please get rid of some ugly landscape artifacts while we are at it, like that silly tower they all seem to love over there.
Tod, careful what you wish for, there is a French artifact holding a petrified torch on this side of the ocean.
... and don't even get near Copacabana, Guanabara Bay Rio de Janeiro and it's landmark Christ of open arms, another French present. You know they had a short colony in Salvador the Bahía, was it Bahía or Recife? My head is so empty since the French left.
Lucky Mexico didn't get such friendly mementos. Could they still be angry about the Napoleon III army defeat, May 5th, 1864?
I saw the results of the enquete. France is the country where people work less hours per year. US is on the rank where people work more, behind some Asian countries, like South Korea that came first place.
Pio... that name sounds familiar, do you visit here offten?
Wow, had no idea. So, it's you and only 3,999,999 other souls?
Seriously, I find a lot of desirable charm in that. Atlanta has almost five million people and believe me it is too many. We have people moving here from the north and west of this country and apparently every other country in the world. And they all own cars and park them on one of our busy roads.
Geez, if I didn't have kids, I think I might move to NZ.
Last I checked, it was rather hard to get in. About 20 years ago I talked to Carl S. about where in the world would be the safest, if we decided to blow ourselves off the face of the earth. He said New Zealand.
But they don't take every Tom, [censored] and Harry.
lol. Well, as a fellow Libertarian, Neal would know. It is funny when you think about it. France has a long history and yet not one military victory. No wonder the US had to "save" them.
Atlanta is filling up because people have heard that it is the coke capital of the world. Unfortunately they don't realize that it is Coke rather than coke until it is too late. By then the roads are so jammed they can't leave.
At the risk of being UTTERLY bashed and probably banned from this thread...
It seems an Americans disdain for the French usually comes from America’s own national arrogance. They don’t like it when someone in the world doesn’t do what they want or doesn’t agree with them. After all, since birth they have been surrounded with propaganda about America being ‘the best'
I was, personally, quite pleased that at least ONE nation (be it France or any other I dont care) in the world didnt want to go to war--as if the MILITARY is a solution to all international political problems!
On the other hand the French always seem to be underground or setting up their own Government while "occupied" while America, UK and Aussies try to liberate them.
Tod, do you know why of all US cities Elton John has an appartment in Atlanta?
Atlanta has a very large gay population; I would guess that has something to do with it. Newspaper reports claim that he likes it here because he can drive. Other than that, he is like 2 million other folks who have moved in during the last twenty years.
Will the last person to leave Boston please turn off the lights? It will help withi Global Warming.
I have always been in Atlanta. I did live in the People's Republic of Massachussets for two years.
Americans represent more or less 5% of the World's population. All countries are arrogant. The difference between the French and the rest of the world is that they have nothing to be arrogant about.
I blame it all on the guy who invented the umbrella. If he hadn't done that, all the French would have drowned the first time it rained.
And let's not forget that Germany was very much opposed to the war but nobody here is bashing them.
Neville Chamberlain, is that you? You want to appease the world still? Do you see where that approach got you seventy years ago?
Actually, America's disdain for the French is based on the sheer arrogance of the French. It is the world's political prostitute and will do anything to further itw well deserved reputation of cowardice.
BTW, war is an underappreciated and misunderstood part of life.
I don't know Pio, it's your thread. Do you want to ban ahuman?
I figured she would go to Mexico before you went back to SA. She misses her "family". How are you going to handle it with DD's? I know their well-being is your top concern.
Now that Pluto has lost its designation as a planet, some important questions must be answered.
1. What on earth will astrologers do? Will they rewrite that portion of their "science" that is affected by Pluto? Or does Pluto retain its merit because a large block of spinning ice has the same effect as a spinning planet?
2. What about the Disney dog, Pluto? Will he be renamed? If Disney does rename that dog, it will destroy everything I have ever believed in. It may even shake my belief in Superman.
3. Will any astronomers loose their jobs now that there are 11% fewer planets to keep up with?
4. February 18 is Pluto Discovered Day. I am not making this up. Will we still celebrate Pluto's discovery?
6. Will we celebrate the day it was declassified?
7, Does Pluto still have the same weight now that it has been declassified? I worry about the wobble effect on the Earth.
8. Einsteinian gravity is defined as the unseen curvature of spacetime caused by the presence of matter. Now that the word is out on Pluto being ice instead of a planet, is the curvature of space changed?
9. Or do we relegate back to Newtonian mechanics? See number 8.
BTW, these burning questions kept me awake last night. I hope the scientists who declassified Pluto realize the gravity of their actions.
My biggest concern, emotionally, is for Pluto the Disney dog. I mean, if he is renamed, then it is just wrong. I will be so hurt.
On a bigger scale, I worry about the poor astrologers. In fact, I have felt my personality changing today. Undoubtedly due to the fact that I no longer feel the "pull" of Pluto since it is no longer a planet. I can only wonder what kind of monster I will become. Poor Pluto. It was only 76 years old.
Since it took a board of astronomers to deliberate over what requirements there must be for a planet to be called a planet... I can only imagine how long that must have taken. How this helps us today, I think it will take even longer to figure that out.
As to the Disney Pluto, I would think you are safe because a Disney board would have to deliberate over what constitutes a cartoon character. There would be an issue in relating Pluto to Goofy... both being dogs, but I believe Mickey would be too distracted by Minnie to ever reach a defining conclusion... he being the chair of Disney... or is that honor now gone to Buzz Lightyear? Anyway, it won't change in our lifetime, I'm sure.
I just got off the phone with an astrologer. She assured me my chart will not change. Still, I worry. I asked her how can my chart not change when I just lost a planet? Further, if Pluto remains in my chart, then there are other large "blocks of ice" that must affect my chart if Pluto does. She again assured me.
I swear I have changed since the declassification of Pluto as a planet. I am more emotional and much less logical. In the past, when I took one of those left/right brain tests, I pegged the left brain all the way to the left. I just took a test and I am now right brained.
I went shopping and bought some new clothes including some red shorts. I also started writing poetry. I am also starting to think I am a Democrat. Even a socialist. And, worse, I worry about global warming. I can also now speak French fluently. Finally, once a proud carnivore, I am now a vegetarian.
I just hope the scientists are happy with themselves.
I went shopping and bought some new clothes including some red shorts. I also started writing poetry. I am also starting to think I am a Democrat. Even a socialist. And, worse, I worry about global warming. I can also now speak French fluently. Finally, once a proud carnivore, I am now a vegetarian.
Todd, you have become the perfect man - apart from the vegetarian thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Gotta run to another stoopid meeting.
Pio, will address your issue when I get back.
Yeah, and you guys laff it up about red shorts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
If they get a rash you'll have to go get a doctor or something I suppose. No, I mean WW going to Mexico? I lost your alternative email (again). If you prefer to email, please do so.
A couple of years ago there was a radio station campaign here to blow up the moon. They went on and on about how we wouldn't miss it, all the troubles it caused with tides and moods, etc.
BigK, I think you are okay. Let's see, you have made no positive comments about France and haven't worried us with Global Warming, so it's okay. We're just preoccupied with Pluto's demise.
I am in disbelief at Pluto's demise. How can they even do that to us. When did we give them permission? Who do they think they are? Who are they that have the power to re-write all the textbooks?
HOWEVER....it is a family joke that I turn into a werewolf every full moon (don't ask - it just is a family joke). Rob always asks me the day after a full moon if I've been busy that night, chasing cars etc etc. I then scare myself [censored] by recounting to him what I did during the night.
LOL, I guess it's one of those "family" things that you have to be part of the family to understand.
Obviously you don't know much about the chupacabras.
ToddAC,
I have a question. If there is nothing better than a perfect vacuum and assuming trees drink water with a specific gravity of 1.0, how is it physically possible that a tree can grow any taller than 33 feet? Something is not right here. It is apparent that some trees can do it - but HOW?
And why is there an arc de triomphe in Paris? Did the Germans build it? Can't see why the French would have any use for it. Maybe it was to let the Germans to know where to march through?
If it’s siding with the winner then some notable victories are The War of Independence, WWI and WWII. If it’s the end-result of repulsing an invader then The 100 Year War (took them some time though!), WWI and WWII. If it’s victories in decisive battles then it’s: Poiters, Austerlitz, Wagram, Ypres, Operation Desert Storm (1991)…
If you feel a need to poke fun at the French then hit them where it really hurts: make fun of their cars.
Pio,
I don’t know whether WW going to Mexico is good or bad for you. What is it that you want? Basically if her leaving helps you reach that goal then great. Just try to set things up in a way to avoid a repeat of the Florida Incident.
“You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', '[censored]', and 'Colon.' Need I say more?”
Recall that with Pluto's demise, I am now a right brain idiot.
The reason is due to Global Warming. You see, plants take in CO2 and because of Greenhouse Emissions, CO2 has increased which makes plant life thrive.
If this continues, we will have dogwood trees 1500 feet high.
In all seriousness, I don't know the complete answer. I know that there is something called hydraulic resistance and that the pathways increase in diameter to compensate, but beyond that, I'll stick with GW.
Pio, I've been giving your sitch a lot of thought.
I'm very, very worried about your girls. You do realise that they will be blaming themselves for all this and when their mother goes to Mexico they will be wondering what they did wrong to make their mother leave them.
How are you going to address this with them? It bothers me a great deal. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
the PLAN is to NOT take DDs to the airport. They will say their farewells in the house. DD1 believes that WW is going to Mexico to look after her mother. I don't see them feeling responsible. What I do worry about is if WW does NOT go and something really DOES happen to MIL, DD1 would suffer that forever.
I expect the seperation will be no more than about 6 weeks unless WW decides to just bail out completely. I need this now. I have told her that I feel like we are just treading water but not making any progress. I continually remind her of the love letters when she tells me that she is really trying. I told her I need a break from her. If I have to continue to put up with her BS, I will soon hate her. I told her she does not make me happy in the least. I believe she could again if she wanted to. She did before so there is no reason to believe she isn't capable. I simply want more out of my marriage than just getting along or I don't want a marriage. I wish I could think of some "star" poetry in those moments. I am sure that would push her off the fence. I am just not as romantic as pool boy. I did tell her I appreciated the cards. I proved to me just what a sophomoric joke her A really was. High school girls behave more maturely than she did. Is that a DJ? I don't care. I told her that she needs to take her time alone to decide what she wants. Either way she wants it is fine with me. If it weren't for the girls, I would have already said goodbye. And I meant it when I said it. Yes I think I need this break. I am sick of WW. I want a FWW, RWW or ExWW. I just don't want a WW any more. She needs to figure out what prefix she wants. I will leave that decision to her.
Good, I'm pleased you have a good plan regarding the DDs. Even if they're not showing it outwardly they will probably be feeling quite insecure right now.
I know this will be the right thing to do - the break I mean.
You could always quote the "great" words of Bon Jovi if you can't think of any poetry yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You will have to forgive me. I am bogged down in a discussion at the other site about the speed of light representing the terminal velocity, black holes, quarks, particle physics, string theory, wormholes, UFO's, Science fiction vs. science fantasy (my number one pet peeve), inter-galactic travel, quantum mechanics, quantum physics, Einstein's Special Relativity, Einstein's General Relativity and Newton's Second Law. It is ugly is all I'll say.
One poster even proposed that planet Earth is merely dirt under someone's fingernails and with a simple handwashing, we could all disappear. She was distraught over the passing of Pluto.
Still another wanted to know if she walked through a wall and fell into a black hole, would we extend our hand and pull her back.
Wow, Pio, there were quite a few DJ's in what you told Gemela. I agree with your feelings completely though.
I think you may want to let Gemela know that you value her and would prefer to stay married. She needs to know for sure that she can regain her rightful place in your life.
Then, if she decides differently, you will know that you did all that you could.
Todd, goodness me, I'm not angry with you at all. Where ever did you get that idea? I know the red shorts were a joke, I was just so pleased it made me want to defend my H. I thought the whole thing was very funny.
When I said "rubbing your nose in it" I meant I feel a bit guilty (and I know I shouldn't) that my family is still intact and happy and we still have all our family jokes and stories and laughter while you and Pio are in the situation you're both in.
I understand what you are saying. But be happy for your own situation. Pio and I would agree that our sitch's are independent variables.
I am happy that your family is together. At least my sons are grown. I underestimated the difficulty for them, but nonetheless, I am not in Pio's situation. But Pio's DD's will be okay because of Pio's steadiness. He is a good man. Pio may come across in his logic as cold, but trust me, after sharing a few hundred emails with him, he is anything but.
Joyce Kilmer park is located in North Carolina in the western mountains. Very beautiful area. My middle son, who is a spitting image of me, is a scientist and studied trees and other plants. He has been to the park many times. Joyce Kilmer park has the largest variety of trees anywhere in the world. It is naturally an old growth forest and he swears nothing quite like it exists anywhere else on Earth.
Gosh, what a small world. I used that Joyce Kilmer quote at the start of my speech in a public speaking contest at school.
I don't think Pio sounds cold. A tad sarcastic sometimes but very funny. My course (the bit I actually got to) taught me that analytical people have very dry senses of humour. My personality type came out as friendly facilitator. What a surprise - not.
Doesn’t the public suffer enough already with the American media?
I don't think most Americans spend that much time studying world events. I am amazed how little time is devoted to them. Since I have been in Arkansas, I am fully up-to-date on the area lake bass fishing forecast though.
It is funny because I was talking to my mother a couple of days ago about the Middle East and I was amazed to learn she had no clue as to the history of Israel. She thought it was a country that has been there for thousands of years - like Egypt. I explained the Balfour [sic?] debacle to her. Total surprise.
I have told and will tell gemela that she can have her place back in the family but then it will be up to her to get it. It all depends on what she wants. I can go either way at this point. I would like her to come back but not at any cost. If she does come back, I have already told her that she doesn't need any more shoes, for example. Things will have to change on a fundamental level - for both of us. She may not like that - she may prefer new shoes. Her call.
Can I use that and write it on a card to gemela? I am sure she would fall in love with me if I did.
BTW, for world news, I really like www.bbcnews.com. They have a lot of news about the USA too although they don't devote too much time to things like Tom Cruise and Paramount parting company. I have yet to find any news on foxnews.com - strange. I get annoyed by cnn.com because of their clever method of delaying their page loading forcing you to watch banner ads. I just avert my eyes. I show them, don't I?
We are driving back to Houston today. The DDs have some new DVDs that they can play in the SUV so they should be happy.
Glad you enjoyed the poem. Pablo Neruda was incredible. The first book of poetry of his I read was "Twenty Love Poems and a Song of Despair". I think I remember the title correctly. Anyway, the love poems were so sad, I dreaded the despair at the end.
My favorite poem of his used to be "Tonight I Can Write". No more. Hits home way too hard these days.
I don't know if you know the pop musician Jackson Browne but he is easily the most intelligent pop songwriter. His literary idol is Neruda and you see influences in his songs.
Here are the lyrics to one of Browne's songs, "Linda Paloma". The phrase "endless sky" is directly from Neruda. This song is a little too personal these days also.
At the moment the music began And you heard the guitar player starting to sing You were filled with the beauty that ran Through what you were imagining Dreaming of scenes from those songs of love I was the endless sky And you were my mexican dove
Now the music that played in your ears Grows a little bit fainter each day And you find yourself looking through tears At the love you feel slipping away Though its not the kind Of love you might hope to find If tears could release the heart From the shadows preferred by the mind
Like a wind that comes up in the night Caressing your face while you sleep Love will fill your eyes with the sight Of a world you can't hope to keep Dreaming on after that moment's gone The light in your lover's eyes Disappears with the light of the dawn
But the morning brings Strength to your restless wings And some other lover sings To the sun's bright corona I know all about these things Linda paloma Fly away Linda paloma
Neruda is great and the poem you mention is perhaps the most well known, next to...
Me gustas cuando callas
Porque estás como ausente
y estás como quejándote
mariposa en arrullo.
I'm quoting* by memory, I'll seek it in English.
I can see what you mean. The presence of the ausence?
I don't love her any more it's true,
but I loved her so much.
::::::::::::
Ouch Todd.
Such a big love, a life as it is said. Once someone told me that people that love each other and keep together for years keep seen each other physically as when they met. I mean, like if the old image always lived in the present. I hope it makes sense.
I feel your pain.
I feel the impulse to say something silly to cheer you up but maybe sometimes it's ok just to leave the feeling flow for a while. Then you go to kick some bad French chef or any bad chef, or any or... I digress.
I hadn't heard of that pop artist, he's talented. Today my boyfriend goes to a Bob Dylan concert in Masachusset (sp) and he was singing to me a little of the lyrics of Billy the Kid (?) There is a border and a cantine and a male arm around a Mexican woman waist... but I keep digressing.
Honestly, I am depressed. I don't know why but woke up depressed. Very unusual for me. I have unlimited alone time and it gives me too much time to check, I suppose.
I miss my wife. I miss my life. I can never have it back. It is too late. She has changed. The sweet girl I used to know is now a monster. This is the same woman who told me that she cheated because she "thought I was dying". I am reasonably intelligent, but honestly, I cannot connect the dots on the cause/effect of her statement and actions.
I need to get my driver's license back, get a car and get a real place to live. I have been in limbo too long and I am sure that doesn't help. I have no roots, no anchor.
I hate feeling sorry for myself. I haven't done much of it but today - today - I wallow in self pity and cannot pull out of it.
With that, what the he!!, here is "Tonight I Can Write". I cannot feel any worse than right now.
Tonight I can write the saddest lines.
Write, for example, 'The night is starry and the stars are blue and shiver in the distance.'
The night wind revolves in the sky and sings.
Tonight I can write the saddest lines. I loved her, and sometimes she loved me too.
Through nights like this one I held her in my arms. I kissed her again and again under the endless sky.
She loved me, sometimes I loved her too. How could one not have loved her great still eyes.
Tonight I can write the saddest lines. To think that I do not have her. To feel that I have lost her.
To hear the immense night, still more immense without her. And the verse falls to the soul like dew to the pasture.
What does it matter that my love could not keep her. The night is starry and she is not with me.
This is all. In the distance someone is singing. In the distance. My soul is not satisfied that it has lost her.
My sight tries to find her as though to bring her closer. My heart looks for her, and she is not with me.
The same night whitening the same trees. We, of that time, are no longer the same.
I no longer love her, that's certain, but how I loved her. My voice tried to find the wind to touch her hearing.
Another's. She will be another's. As she was before my kisses. Her voice, her bright body. Her infinite eyes.
I no longer love her, that's certain, but maybe I love her. Love is so short, forgetting is so long.
Because through nights like this one I held her in my arms my soul is not satisfied that it has lost her.
Though this be the last pain that she makes me suffer and these the last verses that I write for her.
I have been on the road all day. I'll read tomorrow. Larousse - thanks for whatever you wrote. I haven't read it but I do appreciate that you wrote it. Don't ever apologize. The only things that have ever offended me on this forum are pink shorts, Ahuman's assertion that the French might have a redeeming value of some kind and ToddAC just on general principle.
The poem didn't do it to me. I was already depressed.
I like the e e cummings poem a lot. He is also a favorite. I sure wish he would learn the upper case though. I believe he is a university professor, or was; you think he'd know better.
Tonight at midnight, I suddenly became aware of my hunger. I have determined that grown men, left to their own devices, revert back to behavior not seen since their college years. I didn't want to walk to anymore restaurants. Yesterday, I walked to a Mexican restaurant, had a great dinner and two beers; earlier today I walked to an English Pub and had a salad, fish & chips and two beers. So, I did what any normal college student would do: I ordered pizza. And two beers. It was great. Even have half for tomorrow or the next day.
So, with a belly full of pizza and beer, here I sit in the middle of the night. I dropped my wireless mouse earlier and it disappeared. Apparently, it proved that quantum physics is possible after all. I figure it hit against the side wall and is now sitting under the bed in suite 211. Fortunately, I have a back up. In fact, that was the old one. I liked it better than the new one.
I think part of my problem is I am taking so many medicines. They all have their little side effects you know. Reminds me of the old Jefferson Airplane song: One pill makes you happy and one pill makes you sad; or something like that.
Let's see: I take to prevent blood clots. Clots, they tell me, are not good. I take one to prevent seizures. Two were plenty. I take one to keep my brain from swelling too much after the treatments. Of course, then there is the requisite post-infidelity AD. I take 21 of those a day and have been for five weeks. Nothing. Like drinking Kool-aid. I also take three hormones because the tumor messed with my balancing mechanism. I take another to regulate my heart beat to help prevent all of the above. I can't even remember what the others are for. Three more I believe.
Think they could have something to do with the way I feel?
Okay I read your post. I am older than gemela but the difference in age is not that obvious in appearance. My family has that kind of genetics. I do think gemela hit a mid-life crisis at 30. I think she is very afraid of growing old and 30 was a big number for her. IMO the basic problem with gemela is that she has still not grown up. I did love the early gemela and I love her now in a way. There is something fundamentally wrong with her and I think she now realizes that.
So you read everything. Wow. All I can say is you have WAY to much free time. I would be very interested in anything you might have gotten out of all that. When I read those love letters and I look at the phone records, I see a 15 year old girl with a crush. Did you look at the Excel spreadsheets? Look at the call pattern. I have it plotted 9 ways to today (Sunday). I am amazed at the 20 and 30 second phone calls minutes apart. How does that go? "Hey, I love you. Bye". [ring] "Hey, I love you more. Bye". It is just childish.
gemela goes back to Mexico tomorrow. Our M may be over but I don't know. She can fight her way back or give up. The ball is definitely in her court. If she wants back, I will give her that opportunity but she needs to mean it and be willing to prove she can do it. I think the break will be good for me in many ways. I think it will be good for her too. It may end our marriage but at least it will do it quickly rather than make me agonize for years.
I am not thinking about the M or the A right now. I am just thinking about life without gemela for a time. I realize that with DDs it is not that simple. Can I sacrifice my happiness for them? Yes. Can I put up with gemela's childishness? No. Gemela needs to grow up - whatever the consequences. Was pool boy her soulmate? No. He was a player. Am I her soulmate? No. I am her husband. Gemela just needs to decide what she wants and go for it. I am at the point where I can live without her if that is her decision. I don't know what we will do about the DDs. I haven't gotten that far. I still have some hope that the M will work.
This year has been good in that it got me to this point. I love her but am not in love with her. The love letters were the final nail in the coffin. Right now my sister is checking her phone records to see if gemela has been calling any 44 numbers. If she has been, the answer is obvious.
Last week she bought a bra in Victoria's Secret but the bottom was not available. Today she bought a bottom in another VS and, when we got home, she said it wasn't an exact match. I said "nobody is going to see it". But I thought maybe I was wrong. I didn't say that though.
wasn't tucktummy here a while ago or is it my imagination? Did I offend her? I am so bad about that.
I was thinking about the trees. Maybe the parts of trees above 33 feet live on water vapor in some way. Diffusion theory might cover that. Or maybe they have a complex internal "lock and dam" system that allows water to be sucked up past 33 feet. I don't see any way they can push water even through capillary action. if they can push water - problem solved. They just can't suck water past 33 feet. We should really cut down many more old tall trees so that they can be dissected and studied.
BTW, we went through our storage the other day. I can't believe how much crap we have stored and we still did not see most of it because of the way it is packed. Gemela found a Harley skirt and vest and pulled it out. OK. Later at the house she told me she never really liked it and wanted to give it to her sister but it was dirty. I told her it either needed to go to a professional cleaner or else but a can of leather cleaner and give it a try. She said they don't have those things in Mexico. I said that it would be cheaper for me to throw that vest and skirt in the trash than pay money to have ot cleaned just to give it to her sister. I suggested she just give it to her and tell her that, if she liked it, she could find a way to get it cleaned. It was not really dirty. It just wasn't "brand new" clean enough for gemela. Anyway, she shut up when I asked why I had to pay money so she could give clothes she has never worn to her sister.
larousse, I undertand why ToddAC is up at this hour but you have no excuse. I am going to bed. Please post but let me get some sleep and I will read it later. I gotta go.
Only the girls offer certain loving qualities that the girls becoming women and the mature women no longer have? I had thought that me being younger would give my partner more years of physical enjoyment.
Larousse, I don't know if it's a language problem but, boy, have you got THAT wrong.
I'm 52 years old, I'm still extremely proud of my body and I could show young girls how to do things they don't even know exist.
Sure. I wish you had talked to my WW so that you could give me insight. Too late for this marriage but the knowledge could be helpful next time, if I ever trust another woman.
I don't know if it's because I work and I work with a lot of young people but I'm always treated as a younger person. I still take stairs two at a time, I wave my arms around a lot, I smile and laugh a lot and I don't dress like an "old" person. I don't dress like a young person either but I've never noticed that I'm "ignored" by men of any age.
L, as you know, I'm the one that had the A. To keep things like that means a great deal. It is a huge thing to keep things like that.
Luckily, I never had a thing to keep. I had a beer mat from a restaurant we had lunch in and I ripped that up and threw it away as soon as the A ended. I had photos of the OM and I from when we were teenagers and my H and I burnt them one night in a ritual burning. That was about 3 years ago now and was soon after D-day.
Estás en un lapso de explosión del dolor y lo estás tratando de hacer desaparecer.
Te duele el brazo y lo quieres cortar como sea.
El brazo no es G y el cortar no es que ella se vaya a Mx.
El brazo es tu dolor interno, profundo, completamente entendible y justificado.
El dolor causado por G no lo va a hacer desaparecer ella.
El dolor del affair no se repara tan sólo con la devoción y el amor del infiel.
Ella no es el problema en este momento, creeme. El problema es que no has podido asimilar y trajar con tú dolor. Lo has estado guardando.
El episodio que estás viviendo y que sea ha venido forjando desde que te enteraste del affair lo estás trabajando de manera pasiva-agresiva.
No te estoy diciendo que seas una personalidad pasivo-agresiva, solo estoy diciendo que estás lidiando con el dolor de manera pasivo-agresiva.
No conozco a tu hermana pero leí sus mails y están llenos de prejuicios y de falta de compasión. Tu hermana, podría estar inflamando la forma en que estás lidiando con el dolor.
Pio, en este momento el menor de tus problemas es G.
Voy en etapas para no perder el post por si se va la luz. Está lloviendo.
Hola Pio,
Disculpa las prisas de ayer y por el confuso inglés. A veces trato de escribir ideas más complejas de lo que soy capaz de articular en inglés.
Tenía varios posts pre-escritos para ir poniendo en la página y al final confundí todo.
Finalmente fue mejor no poner lo que tenía escrito porque, además de ser confuso en inglés, ea demasiado elaborado y subjetivo.
Voy a darte la versión corta, jeje jé y basada sólo en lo que entiendo de MB y lo poco que sé de su situación.
Perdona si suena muy directo, es solo mi interpretación.
Para mí hay un antes y un después de un post de CCV... Con CCV llegas a darte cuenta que una parte de la insatisacción que sientes se debe a que das mucho, tiempo, dinero, consideraciones cuando no recibes el trato que esperas (y creo que mereces) te sientes desilusionado y enfadado.
Hasta ese momento, estabas trabajando muy bien en tu Plan A. Cuando CCV insiste en que trabajes en ti, te bloqueaste.
En un último post de esa época, CCV te dice: Pio no puedes seguir sin un Plan, cuál es tu plan. Y tu dices, aparentemente irritado, -Entonces no tengo plan y no tengo razón de estar aquí.
Y te vas, dejas de escribir en el foro, levantas una pelea con los de idiotvile.
Después de días vas regresando pero ya no quieres hablar de ti, de tu día a día y de como estás aplicando las estrategias de MB.
A partir de entonces solo escribes de las cosas que hace G, y de tu insatisfacción, pero ya no estás abierto a sugerencias no a analizar las situaciones diarias,como un ejemplo para tener nuevas dinamica en la relación.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Para entonces ya habías hecho un trabajo excelente en exponer el affair, confrontar y mandar al maestro a su casa.
Maybe I should not sleep. Larousse erases too fast. ToddAC - send me the highlights by email.
Okay I have read the last one. I did give up on MB for a span but remember that some posters advised that I needed to. I had gotten to a point of confusion because there were some posters giving my diametrically opposed advice. I think I even remember two women almost getting into a cat fight over an issue and I was no longer even posting. There was another poster who, by her method, seemed to insist on pointing out that there was nothing good about me.
Yes I am disappointed that I believe I have done everything to change myself from the issues that gemela had to make her affair a justifiable cause, done everything I could to give her time and make her have a safe place to be and yet she still hangs onto the affair. I would rather she just get on a plane and go shag pool boy for a year and see if she can make a go of it. The conclusion I have come to is that it is not me - and certainly not me any more. The problem is within gemela and no amount of Plan A can fix it. That frustrates me too but I accept it. Gemela just needs to get off her butt and decide what she wants. At this point I am much happier without her than with her. At this point I have no desire to remain married to her. I don't say anything about that because I am hoping that time apart will make things better. It might also result in divorce. Even that would be better than what I am living now.
I really think gemela needs to try out her affair with the pool boy to eliminate this romantic idea she has. Unfortunately that would definitely be the end of our marriage because I would NEVER EVER take her back if she did. Who knows what new diseases he has acquired.
Pio, casi me duele hablarte tan directo porque se que en el camino van algunas frases que podrían ser mas suaves.
Tus problemas, tu dolor, no va a solucionarse con lo que haga G. Esa es una parte de tu felicidad como persona.
El mayor conflicto o el mayour obstaculo que percibo es que le cedes la decisión de tu futuro a otra persona.
Necesitas regresar a trabajar en ti.
MB es muy fácil porque te dice 1,2,3,4,5, Salvo que tengas una addicción no atendida o una enfermedad mental no atendida el programa va a funcionar para tu bienestar. Ese bienestar puede o no ser con la pareja que fue infiel.
Te imagino en un camino con cadenas alrededor de tu cuerpo y diciendo G tiene que venir a quitarme estas cadenas. Cuando cambies voltees a ver a ti mismo veras que eres tu quien esta sujetando las cadenas. Cuando las sueltes, G puede o no regresar, pero ya no estarás atorado en el mismo lugar.
MB no se trabaja en los foros a menos que encuentres el paterneire o paterneir adecuado. Es necesario leer y trabajar en los detalles.
Tu lenguaje, está lleno de love busters, puedes creer que esta justificado, pero eso no te ayuda a colocarte a ti en una posición contructiva en relación a tu vida y por supuesto solo aleja a G.
Si revisas el material de love busters verás que los love busters matan el amor o quitan puntos del banco.
Creo firmemente que como dejaste de trabajar en los siguientes puntos como establecer boundaries,enternder que son como funcionan y te protegen, y no avanzaste en crear un espacio seguro para que G puediera recuperar un poco la confianza en que era seguro comunicarse contigo, todo tu trabajo interno se perdió. Porqué porque en lugar de trabajar internamente, te estabas reprimiendo internamente.
Pio yo he perdido dos relaciones preciosas por mis reacciones pasivo agresivas. Los Disrespect Judgments matan la confianza en la que se fundamenta el amor.
Todo esto que suena a palabrería funciona cuando lo aplicas pasó a pasó.
Si G tuviera una enfermedad, la mandarías a curarse sola?
No se van a curar solos porque el affair ya terminó. Estás empecinado en una necedad Pio. Lo que has visto en G es el withdrawl el detalle de las tarjetas es una mínima parte.
Todo lo que sientes al respecto de las tarjetas y las fotos es natural están en lo normal, comprensible totalmente. Pero no lo estás trabajando con un objetivo y con un programa.
I agree that I need to work on me. That is why it is so important to me that I get a vacation from gemela. I was beginning to see some rays of hope but when gemela started complaining about being homesick for her family, it put me way back. I know gemela cannot solve my problem. I have to solve it. First I want to fix me and heal my wounds and then think about the marriage. I am not giving up hope on the M, I am just tabling it (American tabling - not NZ tabling) for a while.
If you want to learn about painting, I recommend old reruns of This Old House - the Bob Villa one - not the one with that wimpy guy. There are also some good programs on that are more recent. Do you get HGTV?
La razón por la que te hable de mí fue porqué sentí que sería deshonesto no decirtelo y por otra porque siento que hay factores que podrías mejorar, que a mí me afectaron en mi relación y que siento que le afectan a G.
El dinero
Dices que G es inmadura. Ok. Te creo. Pero al no incorporarla en el control del dinero o en la toma de decisiones de lo que se hace con el dinero la sigues manteniendo como una menor de edad.
Entiendo completamente lo que hiciste cuando las tarjetas teléfonicas, pero no entiendo que tu esposa, tu pareja de casi diez años, la mujer que cuida a tus hijas, con más de 30 amos, no tenga un allowance para su uso personal.
No la estás ayudando a crecer y le estas faltando al respeto terriblemente.
Pio, yo necesito un hombre que me trate como igual y que al mismo tiempo sea el guía. No tengo ningún problema en reconocer el liderazgo del hombre en la familia. Pero también creo en el Poja y en reconocer la participación de todos los miembros.
Tu dices que G colabora muy poco en la casa, G dice que en eso se le va mas de la mitad del día. Yo creo que cualquier esposa merece el respeto de tener acceso a una cantidad de dinero razonable. que no por dejar la casa se va a convertir en una paria.
La estás aplastando emocionalmente y puede reventar. En lugar de ayudarle a salvar cara como dicen los japoneses la estas poniendo en espectaculares, en sentido figurado.
Mal que bien no ha contactado al OM, guardo las tarjetas, ok. Su falta. quieres seguir pateandola, metaforicamente y pateandote al mismo tiempo por eso?
Que pudiste haber hecho diferente:
Trabajar en los pasos de recuperación MB, no en los foros si no en los libros. sentarte con ella con el libro y reconocer que son los love busters que los mantienen alejados e incapaces de comunicarse completamente.
Mostrarle, no con dolor herido, no diciendole frases hirientes en el aeropuerto, si no sentados, hablando con respeto. Lo que necesitas y empiezas a decir con frase sencillas lo que necesitas...
G para recuperar la confianza en ti necesito saber todo lo que pasó, y que podamos discutirlo y que entiendas que no me voy a recuperar de la noche a la mañana pero voy a tratar junto contigo. Y te volveré a preguntar y necesito que me vuelvas a contestar sin escusas.
Pio este proceso se repite y se repite hasta que tu sientes que ya has sabido todo y hasta que ella vaya sintiendo que es SEGURO hablar contigo, porque aunque le vas a decir que te duele hasta el alma, no la vas a insultar ni a rechazar. Uno y otro aprenden a reconocer el dolor del otro.
Qué has hecho tú? (Lo que yo sé que has hecho)
Conseguiste que te llevara al departamento de él. Te dolió horriblemente. Como trabajas emocionalmente con ella después de eso? Cada paso requiere un tiempo de recuperación y descanso. A grandes rasgos después de cada apertura de ella, le agradeces que te haya dicho la verdad. Le dices que te duele, y porque sin insultarla, le hablas en frases de Yo y le repites que necesitas que no se justifique. Pero la escuchas, si se justifica, la escuchas, le repites sus palabras, le muestras en que son débiles sus argumentos. Los infieles, particularmente las mujeres que son guiadas o que siguen este proceso de esta forma, reaccionan catarticamente. Ven el horror de lo que hicieron. Ven el amor de su pareja al mostrarse dispuesto a mostrarle sus sentimientos en ese momento de la revelación.
Eso es MB en el recovery de un affair. La pareja infiel, G, dejada a sus propios medios encuentra muy díficil trabajar el affair, procesarlo, asumirlo. Por eso MB funcina porque les da a cada uno elementos para decir lo que cada uno siente.
cont...
(Todo esto siguiendo los libros, SAA, HNHN, Love busters)
On the other hand....just watched 'Kill Bill, Vol. 1'.....wow.... talk about a 'revenge' theme....can't wait to see, Vol.2!
....better stop watching TV....got too much time on my hands.... I'll go water my flowers, instead!
Larousse.... I guess you switched to Spanish because you were either (a) too tired and it's easier (b) comments only pertained to Pio's situation (c) wanted to show off your Spanish....or all of the above.... it looks good!
Bon...alors...est-ce qu'il y du monde ici qui parle Français? ....I know Ahuman does....and, of course, Todd's DS's French GF....but she doesn't count!
Oppure...l'italiano.....è da molto che non scrivo in italiano...e non credo che l'Italia sia l'eccezione in questo caso......c'è sicuramente un 'MB Board' a l'italiana!
El mapa de regreso a la pareja, es algo que se hace juntos no separados.
No hay problema con que G se vaya de viaje, no tengo una opinión en contra o a favor, estoy hablando más a futuro. Si me esperas ya casi acabamos. Pero voy lento.
Gracias por tu paciencia y perdón por los disrespect judgments hacia ti.
I don't know where the pool boy is. I have no reason to believe he is in Mexico. There is not a big market for swimming instructors there.
Gemela spends what she wants. I never ask what she spends her money on. Could be phone cards. All I have hept from gemela is the credit cards and that is because she cannot stop buying clothes. If I give gemela a large sum of cash to last for the month, it is gone in a week. Gemela has no idea how to NOT spend money.
En el proceso de establecer no contact y recuperar el matrimonio, dos estapas definidas y estudiadas en los materiales de MB hay dos decisiones básicas.
La primera es la del BS. Su decisión es trabajar en un plan o renunciar y terminar la pareja.
Si decide quedarse y no trabaja en un plan de recuperación del matrimonio, su vida va a ser un infierno, aún mayor.
Solo tu puedes saber el tamaño de tu herida, su profundidad, que tan seguido te duele. Solo tue puedes ponderar los pros y los contras.
Yo no te juzgo si decidieras que no puedes luchar y trabajar en la recuperación.
Si decides trabajar, esa decisión en este momento no depende de G, porque? porque todavía no le has mostrado lo hay más haya de este purgatorio que están viviendo.
Es justo que tanta carga esté en los hombros del esposo que no tuvo el affair?
No, pero los frutos pueden ser magníficos.
Quisiera repetir, insistir, recalcar que MB tiene un programa delineado para trabajar en la recuperación de un affair.
La razón por la que estos meses han sido un infierno es porque no han avanzado en los detalles finos de construir una relación emocionalmente segura para ambos.
Pio estás lleno de ira, o al menos dejas que palaras irrespetuosas fluyan por tu boca como sapos, nadie quiere besar a alguien que le salen sapos por la boca.
Te mereces el dolor que has sufrido? No
Puedes decidir terminar con el matrimonio evitar el dolor de reconstruirlo? Si
Muchos hombres y mujeres lo hacen. Empiezan de nuevo bien. Pero la gran mayoría no consigue ser tan o más pleno a como pudo haber sido si hubiera trabajado en la recuperación, porque siguen cargando las mismas deficiencias al tratar con los conflictos.
Puedes perdonar? Solo tu lo sabrás y puedo o no tomar tiempo. Puedes trabajar en el matrimonio sin perdonar? Por un tiempo límitado sí.
....................
Cuál es el secreto de un programita tan sencillo en comparación con costosos psicólogos? Que te da elementos para trabajar en ti y para aprender a pedir y a esperar lo que necesitas. Te enseña a hablar de una forma en la que la pareja no se siente amenazado, criticado, agredido, juzgado, en una ambiente así, muy parecido al inicio de un enamoramiento, el matrimonio se empieza a recuperar.
Can I forgive? yes. Does gemela want forgiveness? No. In her mind she has done nothing wrong so there is nothing for me to forgive. Am I willing to work on the M? Yes. But not alone. Until gemela decides she wants the M too, I am not spending any more time on the relation. I will spend my time on me. The A doesn't bother me that much any more. It is gemela's attitude that bothers me.
Estás es la lista de lo que veo en ti a partir de tus textos y de lo poco que te conozco... No te juzgo, me pareces un hombre de gran valía.
-Te cuesta mucho trabajo reconocer tus errores.
a todos nos cuesta, jejejé
-Te cuesta mucho trabajo conocer internamente, claramente cuales son tus necesidades, expresarlas de manera clara e insistir de manera respetuosa que sean satisfechas.
esto es uno de los hallazgos mas valiosos de MB...
HNHN dice, las necesidades, son eso, necesidades emocionales, de cuya satisfacción depende el amor. Asi nos enamoramos, de quien llena nuestras necesidades emocionales.
Mis necesidades son mías, buenas o malas, tengo el derecho a pedirle a mi pareja que la satisfaga en base al nivel de importancia para mí y necesito ser flexible con mi pareja en cuanto a su capacidad de satisfacerlas.
G tiene sus necesidades, necesitas saberlas comentando con ella el libro HNHN y despúés darle tiempo a que las afine y las reflexione.
Es enormemente liberador saber cuales son las necesidades propias y las del otro y trabajar creativamente para satisfacerlas.
Al trabajar en las necesidades uno se vuelve en confidente del otro, porque mientras sea algo sano, seguro y razonable, cada uno tiene la confianza de que sus necesidades serán satisfechas.
No es necesario demandar, esperar que el otro adivine nuestro pensamiento. No tenemos que sentirnos raros por tener necesidades distintas.
las necesidades emocionales no son SD Selfish demands.
................................................
-Tu me dices que la diferencia de edad no es muy notoria. Es tu punto de vista y es válido desde tu punto de vista.
Cómo lo vive G a partir de los textos que he leíido.
Ojo, está es la interpretación de Larousse de textos viejos de G, sería injusto asumirlos como la voz de G. Lo mejor es preguntarle en un ambiente protegido emocionalmente en unos meses.
-Según sus conversaciones G siente que la gente nota la diferencia de edad y a veces piensan y le dicen que eres us padre.
-G siente que no tienes control sobre la bebida. Que no bebas en un lugar donde no hay alcohol creo que no cuenta mucho como control directo sobre la bebido pero no lo sé.
-G a visto su deseo por ti afectado en ocasiones porque has buscado SF estando tomado.
-G siente que a veces haces cosas que la incomodan en público cuando bebes como vomitar en un pic nic o algo así. ´ -G se siente muy incomoda de que bebas para dormirte o bebias para dormirte. Siente que los aleja y creo un ambiente de inseguridad.
-G interfiere, saca conlcusiones de que no quieres mucho a otras personas, salvo a ella, especialmente al hijo de tu primer matrimonio y que minimizas las muestras de afecto de tus hijas como tarjetas, etc.
I used to be a perfectionist but I gave that up a long time ago. All the things that gemela complained about, I gave up. I don't know what her needs are because she won't say. I don't know what my needs are. I don't think I have many. Trust is one. I can't comment on much of what gemela wrote because I have not read most of it. I scanned her thread once because someone wrote me an email saying she and OM had plans to take the DDs to England. I was trying to make a decision regarding the vacation and I needed that "proof" to help me make up my mind. I never found it in what I read. I did read about her having sex in our house. She always swore she was never in the house - even nearly a year after Dday. All I got from this is that she is still not being honest. Since I now know she is still lying, I am not too interested in much of what she has to say.
I think she needs to go to Mexico and sort this out in her mind. I will do the same back in Saudi Arabia. I am not going to resolve anything today. I am not even trying. I am just trying to have a nice pleasant last 24 hours before gemela leaves.
Okay I read some of the erased posts. I gave up alcohol when I moved to Saudi. I gave up alcohol BEFORE her affair. I think she uses that as an excuse. Yes we still do drink sometimes when we go to Bahrain for dinner but we go maybe once every three months.
Con tu certeza de que puedes perdonar y tu decisión a trabajar en el camino hacia la recuperación del matrimonio ya estás casi hiciste tu tarea. --------------------------------------------------------
Does gemela want forgiveness? No. In her mind she has done nothing wrong so there is nothing for me to forgive. .........................................................
En las tres frases de arriba esta uno de los puntos más importantes en los que estás atorado.
G te ha pedido repetidamente que la perdones. Asi lo dice en su thread y en el algunas conversaciones del chat.
Ha vivido meses tremendos. Ser arrojada de su casa. Escuchar que le digan se vaya repetidamente. Sin embargo día tras día se ha levantado a dar un hogar a sus hijas. Con más o menos éxito, con más o menos entrega. Ha tratado de satisfacer algunas de tus necesidades. Ella siente, que ha hecho un esfuerzo. Se sometió al control del dinero, se controló y no usó el teléfono en su casa. .............
En tus threads hay registro de dos ocasiones en las que después de no querer hablar voluntariamente ella te dijo que quieres saber?
y al menos dos ocasiones en las que tu no quisiste escuchar sus disculpas?
Negarse a escuchar a la pareja es un enorme Love Buster, no escuhar a la pareja cuando coaxionado o voluntariamente quiere hablar del affair, es selfdefeating, es ahorcarse.
Porqué?
Porque te acuerdas que la salida del affair tiene su propia dinámica?
Lo sabes porque te funcionó. Conseguiste terminar el affair y establecer No Contact, es una gran mérito tuyo pero creo que te ayudó MB.
Así como el fin del affair no sucede solito como en las películas, la recuperación tampoco, ni la salida del fog ni
Porqué quieres hacer la recuperación solo en tus términos y no leyendo y aprendiendo como han salido la mayoría de los ex infieles.
Crees que G es diferente? Lee los libros, todos salen igualito,igualitito. A jalones. Poco a poco, seducidos por los cambios del BS y apaleados por la instauración de las boundaries.
G en sus intentos de hablar contigo estaba siguiendo el mismo esquema. Cada vez que van hablando se van aflojando. Si el BS los escucha con respeto, van tomando confiaza para hablar más y más. Tu no tienes que tragar mentiras, pero no le vas a decir a G -Eres una hipocrita, no te creo nada y por eso no te voy a escuchar. G no es una malvada. Está en el guión de la conducta de lo que hacen todos los que están withdrawl y van regresando al matrimonio. Leee SAA.
Como no tragas mentiras, como haces que G se sienta segura al hablar y como evitas sentirte frustrado en cada platica?
La escuchas, la escuchas, entiendes el significado de lo que está diciendo. Le agradeces que te diga lo que ella quizó expresar. Ganaste puntos porque la escuchaste callado y tranquilo sin enfado en la cara...
Y sacas tu quión, mental o escrito. y le preguntas -esto es lo que necesito saber: y vas punto por punto de lo que tu necesitas saber. Si no te contesta algo a tu satisfacción le dices, ok lo dejamos para la proxima. Recuerda que esto es lo que necesito saber y lo necesito saber para poder sentirme completamente liberado de la nube de engaños que nos envolvió.
Pio, esto es muy importante, estas cifrando el comienzo de la recuperación de tu matrimonio en algo que no puedes tener en tus terminos si no le ayudas con las herramientas de MB.
Creo que el porcentaje es como 95% de los infieles no hablan con la verdad al principio, es parte del proceso.
Vas a reinventar el proceso aunque te cueste el matrimonio?
Cada pareja tiene su dinámica.
Que ganas si en lugar del tipo de disclosure que en este momento esperas y demandas sigues el proceso al estilo MB?
Ganas muchos puntos porque Mb te va a decir como preguntarle sin ofenderla y al mismo tiempo decir las verdades que tienen que ser dichas. Si ella consigue expresar un sentimiento sincero de lo que vivió y tu consigues escucharla con respeto y decirle con respeto tu punto de vista sin crucificarla. No solo estás obteniendo poco a poco la verdad que necesitas pero también estás ganando a tu esposa de regreso. Su confianza, su respeto, apertura así ti.
Claro que si ella te dice que se sintio atraída físicamente por él, como dice en un mail, y tú le contestas -eres una estupida infantil sin sentido de lo que es un romance, pareces niña de high school, no te reconozco, me das asco.
Puedes tener la seguridad de que perdiste miles de puntos ante sus ojos como persona y como su esposo. Crees que tienes derecho a decir eso ante tamaña estupidez? quizá pero pierdes tanto. Si tu esposa te abre su corazón y tu la escucha, tratas de entender con ella lo que vivió y al final la guías, al estilo MB y SAA a ver la insensatez de su fog talk, la vas ganando enterita para ti.
Puedes tener la verdad, puedes decir lo que sientes con todas sus palabras y significados en frases construidas sin insultos y con tus sentimientos más sinceros ante lo que pasó.
En ese momento vas a ver el cambio y la apertura que estás esperando. No antes y si por acaso ella consiguiera llegar a algo similar a abrirse, pobre Pio y pobre G porque no van a tener las herramientas para trabajar con esa información.
Te parece iluso y totalmente fuera de la realidad que G haya podido infaruarse falsamente con un OM como el que lo hizo?
Es iluso y totalmente fuera de la realidad esperar que alguien tan fuera de la realidad pueda llegar solo, sin recurso metodológicos ni apoyo a hablar con madurez, honestidad y con compasión y empatía absoluta por los sentimientos del maltradado BS.
Este es mi punto más importante y ya lo he dicho.
Te estás flajelando solito queriendo hacer las cosas a tu manera.
..........................
las herramientas de MB te dice:
BS tienes derecho a saber tanto como tu creas que necesitas para iniciar la recuperación y perdonar. No le dan tanta importancia a perdonar como a iniciar el proceso de recuperación de la pareja y de el ambiente de intimidad, confianza y respeto.
..................
Final !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Como no estabas preparado para el withdrawl, como vivías en la angustia del NC, el periodo a partir del NC, te encontró desprevenido.
Desde que G dejo de hablar con el OM por telefono ya debía de haber empezado la recuperación siguiendo el libro, los pasos de la recuperación y el plan hacerla.
Para recuperase bastaban dos cosas NC y tu deseo de luchar y seguir el programa SAA.
En este último post está el núcleo de lo que debía haberte dicho desde un principio.
Creo firmemente que pueden hacerlo.
Por favor para el Gemela bashing in tu thread. Si te molesta que gaste ciertas cosas le dices, mi vida, tengo este dinero, vamos a organizarnos, lo que sea.
Tu tienes poder, no eres un monigote. Pero tampoco eres un dictador. Quieres que tu esposa madure, implanta dinamicas madurez.
A veces nos enredamos demasiado cuando las cosas son sencillas.
The ball is in your court Pio, siempre ha estado. :P
..........
First you have to recover, love, trust , openess, passion.
Despues puedes negociar y guiar y aconsejar, no imponer y ayudar a Gemela a encontrar mejor uso de sus talentos, su vida y el dinero de ambos. Pero todo a su tiempo. -............... Creo que juegas juegos peligrosos al permitirte repetir por tanto tiempo las mismas frases irrespetuosas y hechos parciales. No es un ataque es una observación.
Si sigues el plan SAA y estudias y te cuestionas primero a ti de tus hábitos y tus habilidades vas a dejar de necesitar dar ejemplos de lo que crees es la conducta irracional de G.
Tu y yo sabemos que hay millones mas irracionales, realmente malas y que G.
Ama a tu esposa, ayudala a redimirse, ayudala a reencontrarse y reencontraras el respeto, el amor y la entraga que un día tuviste y una mujer cien veces mejor.
.................
Quita los textos de tu historia tienen demasiada informacion personal de distintos tipos.
Es muy facil sumarse a un character assesination, mientras se ha hecho en el thread has pérdido tiempo valioso y solo has inflamado tu ira. Justificada, sí, útil, positiva?
La ira es una sentimiento secundario, tienes que saber cuál es el primario y aprender a canalizarlo antes de que llegué a la ira. Cuando yo decidí con determinación absoluta que no me iba a permitir reaccionar iracundamente, entonces pude trabajar con los sentimientos que estaban detrás.
Es un típico gesto de la forma de solucionar los problemas de manera pasivo-agresiva exhibir los errores de la pareja ante otros. eSe es otro tema.
................................
Pienso lo mejor de ti, creo que G es muy redimible y valiosa
bye, por aquí ando luego si me necesitas y si no me necesitas no hay problema.. It was my pleasure.
Well, I am going to attempt to get this thread back on topic.
Does anyone want to discuss Superman? Specifically, his home planet, Krypton, had a red sun and when he arrived on Earth with its yellow sun, super powers were bestowed on him. It is all very logical when you think about it.
Here is my question: If one were to leave Earth and travel to Krypton, would the Earthling have super powers?
I had my head in a very dark, and not so nice place, when I wrote the text in English.
I was in my own fog.
I was irrespectful to you and G because I was assuming, making an a.s of my self.
I was trying to find similarities in two very different stories.
I started wanting to share with you similarities that are not really there and for that I'm very sorry.
I got involve in my own personal story.
On top of that I started to try to assamble and put together some kind of list that could help me to analyze the 'similarities'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Not only that, the English was awfull...
Not only that, I mixed the paragraphs !
Thanks God I'm not airport controler or by now we would have a tragedy.
When you wrote to me about your position in very clear, short sentences; I could really 'read' you and 'see' you and your situation and not mine and my ghosts.
Just then I could really give you some ideas true to MB and to your story.
At least I hope I did so.
The message is:
Follow the recovery plan of SAA and everthing will fall in place with time.
The firsts posts in Spanish are still deeply in a s s suming mood.
So sorry
I think the only post of substance is the very last one.
All the others were some kind of fog. If you follow SAA you'll get to discuss the real issues with the real people, you and G.
My posts are a crazy mix of old declarations, old situations, taken out of context.
Please don't be angry with G for the comments I used. They were made months and months ago and I shouldn't have taken them out of context.
Larousse
*this little piggy goes out of stage with her face looking down as to no be seen*
I agree. I have had my telescope scanning the heavens looking for Krypton. Or at least a red sun. I can't find it. Academic anyway. How the heck would I get there?
Continuing the analogy, I guess on Krypton, I would be allergic to Earthite. I would name my dog Eartho.
Pio, in a way it's a pity she doesn't move to the North of England and see what pool boy's real life is like. Wouldn't THAT be an eye opener.
Todd, if you found Krypton I'm sure you'd find a way of getting there.
My sister was hospitalised overnight, so I'm taking the day off from work because I'll probably be needed. They live on an island and she's here in hospital on the mainland without a car and my mother, who is 77, did all the running around last night. I've never forgiven my S for not lifting a finger for me or my family when I had severe pneumonia when the children were small but I've learned here that holding grudges is NOT a good thing and it's time to let it go.
I have wanted to be Superman since I was six years old. I used to mix concoctions that were sure to give me his powers. I probably mixed and drank some things I shouldn't have. I even squirted a tiny bit of my Dad's lighter fluid into the mix. Figured that would give me the heat breath.
I found a large piece of red cellophane one day and held it up to convert the Sun's rays from yellow to red. Figured that would do the trick. As you probably guessed, it made no difference. I jumped off our porch trying to fly and landed squarely on my head. Hmm.... maybe that explains things?
Today, in adulthood, I have abandoned all those childish attempts. Today, I want to go to Krypton. It's the mature goal to have if you want to be Superman.
Let's just remember that it is very likely that not all of what gemela posted was the absolute truth. It was rewritten truth. It was part of her affair - the fog. Gemela has NEVER asked me to forgive her. She has said a few times she was sorry. She has NEVER said what she is sorry for. Just "I'm sorry". Is she sorry she had the A? Is she sorry she got caught? Is she sorry OM is not still in town? I have no idea what she is sorry about.
I am not thinking about us right now. The DDs are in fairly good shape at the moment and I want it to stay that way. Let gemela and I have a vacation. She can spend some time with her real family and maybe get her thoughts together and decide what she wants. If she wants to come back will I let her? Of course. I will not let my pride hurt my children.
I will clarify another thing. I do not mind imperfection. I admire quality. Perfection, on this plane, does not exist. Iranian carpets come close but they always drop one stitch so that they won't be perfect. I love quality and I strive for it. Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
I hate mediocrity. I don't mind people doing mediocre work if they are doing it to the best of their ability. I hate people who are capable of more and do just enough. Imagine Rembrandt splashing some paint on a canvas and saying "well my work is done - looks like it's Miller time".
If someone offends me accidentally, I don't care. If they do it intentionally, I get mad. I am really a pretty easy going person as long as people are polite. I hope that makes sense.
Let's just remember that it is very likely that not all of what gemela posted was the absolute truth. It was rewritten truth. It was part of her affair - the fog.
My friend, this is an outstanding point. Several who read G's posts assumed she was perfectly truthful and forthcoming. We talk about WS fog all the time but G was exhonerated from the fog early on.
Quote
I hate mediocrity. I don't mind people doing mediocre work if they are doing it to the best of their ability.
Just to get the thread back on topic, I hope you realize that I am doing my best work in my attempts to become Superman. Been at it since the age of six.
I can't speak for her thread but I can speak about some emails and chats that gemela had. She spent a great deal of time looking for enablers. There was the time she told a friend we had not had SF in months. We had it the day before she wrote that. Her reply was that she did not consider it SF because it was with me and not OM. Okay.
There seems to be a universal law that enablers do not believe there are two sides to every story. I suppose that is what makes them enablers. If they could see the other side, they might accidentally inject some rational thought into the situation.
No one enabled my A. Everyone who knew about it, hated it with a passion. They thought I was a stupid fool and were planning to get together as a group to tell Rob.
I said gemela looked for enablers. I didn't say she found them. That is why she made up some of the things she did - to try to persuade them. I did read in her thread she had never climaxed until she met OM. I can count on one hand the times she has NOT climaxed with me from the beginning until now. She is a gifted liar but not THAT gifted.
I am woman, hear me roar In numbers too big to ignore And I know too much to go back an' pretend 'cause I've heard it all before And I've been down there on the floor No one's ever gonna keep me down again
Just to get the thread back on topic, I hope you realize that I am doing my best work in my attempts to become Superman. Been at it since the age of six.
Sam Spade: Well, if you get a good break, you'll be out of Tehachapi in twenty years and you can come back to me then. I hope they don't hang you, precious, by that sweet neck.
Brigid O'Shaughnessy: You're not--
Sam Spade: Yes, angel, I'm going to send you over. But chances are, you'll get off with life. That means, if you're a good girl, you'll be out in twenty years. I'll be waiting for you. If they hang you, I'll always remember you.
All day I've faced a barren waste Without the taste of water, cool water Old Dan and I with throats burned dry And souls that cry for water Cool, clear, water
Keep a-movin, Dan, dontcha listen to him, Dan He's a devil, not a man He spreads the burning sand with water Dan, can ya see that big, green tree? Where the water's runnin' free And it's waitin' there for me and you?
The nights are cool and I'm a fool Each star's a pool of water Cool water But with the dawn I'll wake and yawn And carry on to water Water, water, water
Keep a-movin, Dan, dontcha listen to him, Dan He's a devil, not a man He spreads the burning sand with water Dan, can ya see that big, green tree? Where the water's runnin' free And it's waitin' there for me and you?
Out in the West Texas town of El Paso I fell in love with a Mexican girl. Night-time would find me in Rosa's cantina; Music would play and Felina would whirl.
Blacker than night were the eyes of Felina, Wicked and evil while casting a spell. My love was deep for this Mexican maiden; I was in love but in vain, I could tell.
One night a wild young cowboy came in, Wild as the West Texas wind. Dashing and daring, A drink he was sharing With wicked Felina, The girl that I loved.
So in anger I
Challenged his right for the love of this maiden. Down went his hand for the gun that he wore. My challenge was answered in less than a heart-beat; The handsome young stranger lay dead on the floor.
Just for a moment I stood there in silence, Shocked by the FOUL EVIL deed I had done. Many thoughts raced through my mind as I stood there; I had but one chance and that was to run.
Out through the back door of Rosa's I ran, Out where the horses were tied. I caught a good one. It looked like it could run. Up on its back And away I did ride,
Just as fast as I
Could from the West Texas town of El Paso Out to the bad-lands of New Mexico.
Back in El Paso my life would be worthless. Everything's gone in life; nothing is left. It's been so long since I've seen the young maiden My love is stronger than my fear of death.
I saddled up and away I did go, Riding alone in the dark. Maybe tomorrow A bullet may find me. Tonight nothing's worse than this Pain in my heart.
And at last here I
Am on the hill overlooking El Paso; I can see Rosa's cantina below. My love is strong and it pushes me onward. Down off the hill to Felina I go.
Off to my right I see five mounted cowboys; Off to my left ride a dozen or more. Shouting and shooting I can't let them catch me. I have to make it to Rosa's back door.
Something is dreadfully wrong for I feel A deep burning pain in my side. Though I am trying To stay in the saddle, I'm getting weary, Unable to ride.
But my love for
Felina is strong and I rise where I've fallen, Though I am weary I can't stop to rest. I see the white puff of smoke from the rifle. I feel the bullet go deep in my chest.
From out of nowhere Felina has found me, Kissing my cheek as she kneels by my side. Cradled by two loving arms that I'll die for, One little kiss and Felina, good-bye.
If I could make a wish I think Id pass Cant think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound Nothing to eat, no books to read
Making love with you Has left me peaceful, warm, and tired What more could I ask Theres nothing left to be desired Peace came upon me and it leaves me weak So sleep, silent angel, go to sleep
Sometimes, all I need is the air that I breathe And to love you All I need is the air that I breathe Yes to love you All I need is the air that I breathe
Peace came upon me and it leaves me weak So sleep, silent angel, go to sleep
Sometimes, all I need is the air that I breathe And to love you All I need is the air that I breathe Yes to love you All I need is the air that I breathe
Sometimes, all I need is the air that I breathe And to love you All I need is the air that I breathe Yes to love you All I need is the air that I breathe And to love you All I need is the air that I breathe Yes to love you
It helped me a lot that you allowed me to express my points of view to you.
I was way too wordily, wanted to say too many things at the same time and the dial-up connection was not helping. I was not able to post fast enough in a more ping-pong way.
I want to thank you for your patience, openness and respect last night.
When you arrived here your story got my attention because of G nationality. I was very impressed with the clarity and decisiveness you had.
You were a man with a mission.
You were focused, enforced NC and wisely kept G with you during those painful months of affair withdrawal.
I like MB tools and the way they can detangle very painful and complex marriages problems, specially the approach to give power and hope to BS’s.
I don’t know about marriage counseling theories or tendencies but I have the impression that MB is the only one that ‘tells’ the betrayed spouse:
‘You don’t have to lay down in pain and anguish until your WS decides to come back or leave you’. ‘You can recover your marriage and grow as person and spouse in the processes’.
Because you had applied so well the first part of the plan I couldn’t understand why you and G were not in recovery.
I felt a little sad to see you in pain, justified of course, I wondered ¿Why is MB not working in Pio’s marriage recovery?
My explanation is because, although you understand very clearly that there needs to be
NC for life and you have love and drive to fight for your marriage and family, you have not followed the whole steps and you are not using all the tools specified on SAA.
My opinion is that the only think you need from G at this point to start to recover is that G decides to stay in the marriage and express a desire to work on it and the NC letter.
I have the impression that during the days of enforcing no phone contact, you started to loose focus of the other things you had to do. You are a man of action and objectives or at least that is the impression I have. Maybe you hadn’t read the SAA or the articles in this page or you didn’t want to follow them or couldn’t follow them. Without a program your taker took charge, you needed answers, you need to be relieved of the horrendous pain that G affair has inflicted you.
You lost track of the strategies and concentrated on what you want and need and in all the ways G and her affair have hurt you. You know what you need from G but you don’t know how to get it.
What does SAA says?
BS, this is the ride of your life, it’s not going to be easy, it will require all your efforts, patience, intelligence, compassion and self control.
Because recovering will require so much of you, instead of focusing on your natural emotions and real pain, put your eyes on the objective. A restored marriage and intact family.
At the same time that the affair is finished and NC established the BS has to work on filling at least the five main emotional needs of the WW. SAA book and this page have the information of what is considered and emotional need in the context of a marriage and more clarifying information about how to fill the forms. If the WW doesn’t want to fill the questionnaire the BS tries to identify them.
The BS identifies and stops Love Busters, disrespect judgments, angry outburst. This work starts since the WS knows her WW is having an affair and keeps going it during recovery and keeps feeling emotional needs and minimizing Love Busters as a recipe to maintain the love and a healthy marriage.
The only two decisions that the WW has to take are compressed in the NC and the NC letter. The WW decides to finish her affair and stay in the marriage.
During withdrawal the WW is not able to work on the marriage, is not able to fill the BS emotional needs but the BS has to keep working on filling needs and ending LB because those are the strategies that are going to make the WW realizes that she can be in love with the BS and that he can fill the emotional needs that she thought only the OP could feel.
How do the BS makes the XWW understand his pain, accept responsibility for her actions?
It’s a process. At the beginning the XWW feels mostly sorrow for herself, for the end of the affair, for being caught. Some ask forgiveness and expect to be forgiven and be able to go on with their lives. SAA gives the BS tools to talk to the WW to discuss the affair, to explain his feelings of pain and betrayal. It also teaches the BS how to ask the XWW to fill his needs for honesty. SAA gives a format of talks to keep each disclosure session, controlled and respectful.
Both partners get to understand how affairs work and how to protect the marriage from them.
Pio, if you are still reading, lol. This is my understanding of how MB works and what is the plan outlined in Surviving an Affair.
I think the only answers you need from G to start recovering your marriage are:
Do you compromise yourself to no contact with XOM ? Do you want to stay married to me? Do you want to work on our marriage?
Once you have those answers you can start to work on both of you learning the tools of SAA to create a emotionally safe environment to have disclosure sessions. There are also session where you will be able to say what you feel, to describe your pain, and to request what you need to make it less. SAA and MB teach you to create a safe environment for you to expose your pain, and you need compromise from your wife and it will teach her how to love you fulfilling your needs. It will give you tools to negotiate so that you don’t feel that your needs or plans are no taken in count and will make both of you able to say what you want and need from the other.
I think the amount of remorse you need to see from G will come in time. The honesty and openness will come thought several sessions. I use the word session to describe the times in which both of you sit together for and accorded time and talk through your issues using SAA tools and maybe work book.
I think I get repetitive and get lost in what I want to say because I had never written so much in English. Sorry. Thanks for your understanding all kind MB’rs readers.
Pio, this is my point of view. All the material is mostly in this page. I have not seen the workbook but I have heard that some people work with them as complement to SAA.
You have gone through unbelievable pain and betrayal. I understand your need to get authentic, meaningful answers from G. I think it’s reasonable to expect her to compromise completely to the marriage and to stop doing the annoying habits that bother you. I don’t think G would be able to do it on her own or with a therapist. A therapist is good for each of you to work on your issues but to recover a marriage hit by an affair, I’m convince MB through, the plan contained in SAA has the best approach and guaranties you that your marriage will be improved.
Why did I write to you about this, I guess I needed to resolve in my mind what had happened in your case and why MB seemed not to work for you after such a great Plan A. This is just my opinion. You need what you need and only you can now which is the method that you want to follow.
I liked a lot the tolerance and understanding you and Todd showed the other night to me, thanks both.
Lunamare,
Sorry if I ignored your comments I was a little bit wrapped in little finger.
Frida Kalho has some nice things about fruits. Her painting is more personal and reflexive. I wouldn't say it's depressing per se because she had a fighter personality. I live like 8 blocks from her family house she was born there and later was her and Diego Rivera house. Now it's a museum.
Voce e gallega menina? Eu se portugues brasileiro. Vi que escreveo en italiano mas Io non lo so.
....actually....what 'hit' me the most about the bio of the painters I quoted seeing (Khalo, Rivera, Dali and Pollack) was not so much their art (as I was familiar with their works)....but rather their 'lifestyles'!
Pio,
I think one of the reasons it is recommended to not stay too long in PLAN A is because our 'Taker', being suppressed somewhat during PLAN A, could take over at any time...and make a big mess!
That may be what's happening in your case given some of the exchanges you have cited between yourself and G.
Have you made G. feel that she will be 'welcomed back with open arms' should she to choose the M, even though it will be hard work?
Todd,
Quote
That's right. I may have given up on winning the lottery; the odds are too great. But not on being Superman!
.....I suppose you saw the last film on him....what did you think of it? Recommend it, or not?
I thought you might be interested to know (if you have not already heard) that a Pluto interest group is suing the International Astronomers Union.
"The IAU isn't the end-all, be-all for the solar system," said a public relations spokesperson for Pluto, appearing on CNN's Larry King Show. "You can't just un-designate a planet without giving folks on the planet an opportunity for due process, and the right to be heard, and to challenge the facts upon which the decision is based."
I, for one, feel proud to live on a planet where people are willing to expend the time, money and government resources litigating critical issues such as these.
Yes you are correct in that I need very little from gemela to start recovery. It would be IMO a very small step for her. I hope that on her return from Mexico that we will either begin recovery or begin divorce but I think that choice is hers unless she does something extremely stupid - and she is capable BTW.
We are leaving for the airport in an hour. I feel little emotion. I am not happy. I am not mad. I am not sad. I just feel like I have been shredded inside and I am not sure what is keeping me together. I feel like that for the first time in a long time I am finally getting what I need.
My husband, for example, is superior to me in many ways. (Did I mention he is French! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But that's not necessarily the suprerior part....)
The stuff keeping the shredded part of you together is called integrity.
Well, I am sitting here with my eight month old Toshiba notebook, staring at a screen that is about 8% viewable. And that is with a Jorgensen fast action spring clamp holding in hte upper left hand corner. Without the clamp, nothing.
I have having difficulty typing or seeing what I am typing so please...
Nobody wanted to talk Superman last night and frankly I was a little hurt. Hence the lyrics. I figured I would at least entertain myself.
larousse, what were you hanking me for exactly?
ahuman, I could read all of your post. Please tell me you didn't defend France again!
Pio, big day. Sorry. I wish you the best, whatever form that takes.
luna, what? Oh Superman. Have not seen the newest movie. I don't go to movie theaters anymore. Everytime I go, the same high school couple sits behind me and talk the entire movie. When I challenged a 17 yo to take it out back, I knew my theater days were over.
Anyway, bash France.
Boycott French products.
I just used my xray vision to scan the transistor arrays in my screen. I see the problem. A diode at J2354 is installed backwards hence current is attacking the transistors backwards!! No wonder. And with no heat sink in place, well, my friends, the transistors that power the screen had no chance.
Hey, did I see that BigK is back. I think I read this is your one year DD anniversary? Hope you are okay.
Well WW's flight leaves in about 30 minutes. I was a little sad this AM but otherwise OK until we left the house. Leaving the DDs at home was definitely a good call. But DD1 was so upset that I got upset and it always makes me so furious when the A is affecting and hurting DD1 that I hate gemela in those moments. The ride was quiet but we sat down after she checked in and before security. I am sure I gave her a few DJ's but I told her that I expected her to take time and decide what she wants and I will accept either decision as long as she stays away from OM. If she contacts him at all, our M is done. I told her that it would be very easy for her to come back. I told her that all she had to do was leave the A behind and tell me she was totally committed to try to make the M work and then bust her butt trying. She asked why I had told her before that she might want to take a week holiday (screwfest) with OM in England on her way back and now I am telling her she can't. That just made me mad. She complained that I am being inconsistent. She never realized that I was being sarcastic when I mentioned the one week holiday. I think she is simply clueless.
I just need time to settle down and start trying to allow myself to heal. I don't even want to think about gemela right now. I did tell her that I thought it was unfair of her to expect me to put the A behind me when she refuses to put it behind her. If she really were over the A, she wouldn't keep a scrapbook of it. I decided not to say all the things I really wanted to say because I knew I was angry. Let's see how time apart helps.
I told her I either wanted a happy marriage or a happy divorce but that I was miserable how we are living now and I deserved much better and would accept no less. Now I have a splitting headache from stress.
I have told her that I want NC except for emergencies. I have said she should talk to the DDs via Skype every day if she wishes but I really don't want to hear from her. If I were to talk to her, it would pretty much defeat the purpose of her going. This is not really a Plan B and was not intended as such. This is just to try to help us get off the fence and also to allow me some space to breath and to try to stop some of the bleeding. I am sure she is just looking at it as a vacation with the family so I doubt she will get much true benefit from it in terms of the M. Maybe I am making her sound shallow. I don't want to. If she really were that kind of person, there is no way I would want her back. I think she has no clue what she has done to me though. She is not interested in helping me heal so I will do it alone.
There is just a wire broken in her head and she needs to get it fixed.
I did tell her that I thought it was unfair of her to expect me to put the A behind me when she refuses to put it behind her. If she really were over the A, she wouldn't keep a scrapbook of it.
Brilliant !
Quote
She asked why I had told her before that she might want to take a week holiday (screwfest) with OM in England on her way back and now I am telling her she can't. That just made me mad. She complained that I am being inconsistent. She never realized that I was being sarcastic when I mentioned the one week holiday. I think she is simply clueless.
She is clueless, that is why I think you have to lead the recovery explaining her the kind of relationship and commitment you need from her.
Sometimes we think that the other person has the same point of view about what's acceptable and what's not.
I think that you need to help her to get a picture of what you expect from her. This 'sentimental education' would be indirect if you use MB concepts or any other 'guide' that you choose for recovery.
Both of you study the concepts and agree to follow them in your marriage. That way you don't sound like you want to teach her, because both of you would be agreeing to guide your marriage under those principles.
It's understandable that you expect her to have more moral sense or empaty and compassion towards your feelings and needs. You have the option of resent her for being clueless and maybe one day, divorce her or you tell her precisly what is expected and needed from her.
I know it may sound unromantic or shocking to have to tell your partner how to be a partner to you. I tend to think too much, if you have not noticed, and to me it was such a liberation to know that I didn't have to resent my partner for not doing what I needed from him. Instead of the approach -If he loved me, he would do this or that- I take an active attitude by telling him my needs.
He has the options to say no for whatever reason but because I'm also offering to listening clearly to his emotional needs and other needs, he may be more inclinated to satisfy mines.
I don't know what kind of education and family formation G has. I was absolutely clueless about how relationship worked and it took me a long while to discover how to deal with emotional conflicts.
Maybe what you believe that is a moral flaw or a personality flaw is instead the result of her upbringing and the permisibility with which media in Mx tends to see affairs and the babble nonsense of telenovelas that equate infatuation to love and promote the vision that love infatuation is the most important thing to have in the life of a Mx girl. Most don't think like that, I hope, but I guess the message stays some how.
At what time does G arrive? Is she going to stop in D.F.? Do you want me to go to the airport and give her two soft slaps with a copy of Surviving and Affair: 'Here you clueless, welcome to the real world'. Would that be a Disrespectful Judgment or an Angry Outburst? Now I'm confused <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm very worried that you keep sending your inalambric mouse under the bed of the room besides yours. Poor thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I danke you because I think you were cool... that night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
During the 60's and 70's, to fight the 'American cultural imperialism, appeared in Mexico 'local versions' of US's heros. The first one was 'Los Supermachos' and it was a hilarious and satirical comic of Mexican culture. I could never see Superman in the same way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I am not ignoring you. I had not been able to cry since last December. I have been crying silently ever since I left the airport. I can't let the DDs see me cry. Maybe tonight I can be alone. Even so, it feels really good. The funny thing is I have no idea why I am crying. I am not crying because I miss gemela. I just cannot identify why I am crying.
I'll go back tomorrow or the next day and read your posts. I just can't right now at this moment.
DDs are doing great. When I got back, they were engrossed in DVDs. We went out and got their new bowling balls drilled to size. We bought them Zebco 202 fishing rods and are going to rent a boat and go fishing tomorrow. Every once in a while they say that they miss mommy and we talk about it. I remind them that mommy loves them and misses them too and they will see her soon but that right now we all need to help mommy. I tell them it is okay to miss her and that I miss her too. Now I am going to put together their fishing rods and teach them how to cast - once I find out where the power lines are NOT.
I don't feel like I am feeling sorry for my self. I don't feel like a victim. I don't know what I feel. I think it must show. Everyone is sooo nice to me. The people in the stores, restaurants, bowling alleys - everyone.
A word of advice - never buy a children's bowling ball off the internet. It costs more to drill it than it does to buy it. If you buy the ball in a pro shop, they drill it free. Course knowledge. I tried to find a pro shop and discovered that most bowling alleys don't have them any more. I forgot about the yellow pages. Google isn't the answer for everything.
Gemela and I have never been apart under any circumstances like this. Part of me wants her to come back and part of me doesn't. The part of me that doesn't is struggling with the happiness of the DDs. DD1 has mastered spin casting. DD2 saw an ant and ran inside. She was doing okay with casting before that though. We'll get through the fishing okay. Yes I am very sad that things had to come to this.
It bothers me that gemela would ask about getting to go to England for a week. She told me she didn't say she would do it but she asked about it. Why would she even ask about it? It seems to me that she does want to spend time with OM. Unresolved issues? Doesn't matter. If she goes to him, I will never ever have her back. I know now that I don't need her. I could love her again under the right circumstances but it seems to me she wants the A. If she comes back to Saudi, it will be for the wrong reasons - her duty to her children - not that she wants the M. That is my opinion anyway. She has never talked about it one way or the other so I am only guessing. Anyway, that choice is all hers.
Pio, Perhaps you cry for loss, grief, frustration...you have moved to another milestone in the infidelity adventure...some never get this far and others bypass it along the way. I'm sure you are grieving the loss of what your marriage was when it was "good" or the normalcy of preA life...this is yet another reminder but you at least are making progress...although I'm sure you feel you are emotionally still in limbo. I can relate...I just want to be able to set my radar in one direction and quit all this vascillation feeling like working on M one day and definite D the next. It is psychological warfare at the least. I can't seem to find a happy place to just focus on me and the kids so I can't advise. I can say the time away from H was a great escape from my past year of reality.
We can make our own reality and that is what I have difficulty with and sounds like you do too...it is one thing to know cognitively what you should do or how things should go but another to feel oppossing emotion or instability. I know you have been so strong and supportive for the sake of your DDs so I bet G's leaving gave you the opportunity to be human and feel the intensity of what you have been bottling up. I'm sorry. You can turn this time around to a special time for you and the DDs that they and you will always remember for positive reasons...it is all up to you:) I think it is good for them to see you experess your emotions, children get validation for their own emotions from their parents. If they never see you cry or be sad they may begin to feel it is wrong for them to experience these feelings...
Hang in there!
Todd, My H is a huge superman fan so sorry, just couldn't go there!
Hi to Kiwi, BK, Believer and the rest of the TKO club.
Thanks for asking...yes, healing up pretty well...just some residual pain and aggravating numbness from nerve damage...otherwise I am going to start running again this week...we'll see how that goes. The kids are bouncing back nicely except for nightmares...DS fracture is healing slowly but good motor function so can't complain. Getting the kids into counseling next week...H and I start tomorrow!
I am nervous but know this is the final action I can take in trying to recover M. Hoping that H feels optimistic and is honest with our counselor. Time will tell. Any words of wisdom???
My last five computers have been Toshiba notebooks. The quality has steadily declined. Today I bought an HP notebook. I migrated from desktop to notebook over ten years ago and will never go back to desktop.
Anyway, it has an AMD processor which I have never had before but my geekier friends assure me that AMD today is superior to Intel. Gig RAM, 80 g harddrive, etc. All the standard features these days I suppose.
But I have a 100% screen. My other screen had been at fifty percent for a few months and finally it burned all but a few percent this AM.
I am always up at this hour but not always free to surf MB...I do better in early am!
What's with the X-ray vision...can't read minds with that can you? I understand the flying...personally I like the speed thing in getting somewhere in a second, followed by the strength...
How are the brain cells regenerating? Are you still suffering from the side effects of your brain fry? You do a great job of fooling all of us into believing you are playing with a full deck. I'm guessing you were born with at least a deck and a half! Thought alot about you during my accident/recovery. You must have some inner strength to be battling your condition solo...I'm sure you are not alone as we all have the good Lord on our side but sometimes we still feel alone. Your sense of humor and analytical personality seem to have pulled you through quite well so far eh? I admire your strenth...very inspirational to us common folk!
MB can be addicting I've found. Thanks to folks like you, people like me find hope, inspiration, wisdom and sometimes a reality check to help make it from day to day. I definitely would have never made it this far without MB.
I can relate to your hobbies...I spend the bulk of my time with my children which is wonderful since I've only had the opportunity to spend so much time with them this past year. I will have 2006-2007 with them and then back to work...I think I will have a new perspective and different priorities when I return back to work...I'm a grad student now and that leaves me lots of flexibility and time for them. I know that despite all of the sadness and infidelity these are the best days of my life with my children so far!
What's with the X-ray vision...can't read minds with that can you?
Let's just say I still have some high school immaturity within me....
I have always been able to read minds so don't need that superpower.
All I can say about inner strength is that I grew up in a tough neighborhood under tough and challenging conditions. Besides that, I think I was born with much determination and resolve. Don't get me wrong: I was totally depressed a couple of nights ago. I wasn't feeling well physically and it cascaded from there.
I said early on that in a sense, my WW's infidelity was a gift because it occupied my mind and being to the exclusion of worrying about the tumor. While I am certain it sounded dramatic, it was the truth. Sometimes how you view and accept things is all in how you spin it.
The analytical personality was a gift bequeathed from my Mother and the sense of humor: have no idea from whence it came.
Don't go far off, not even for a day, because -- because -- I don't know how to say it: a day is long and I will be waiting for you, as in an empty station when the trains are parked off somewhere else, asleep.
Don't leave me, even for an hour, because then the little drops of anguish will all run together, the smoke that roams looking for a home will drift into me, choking my lost heart.
Oh, may your silhouette never dissolve on the beach; may your eyelids never flutter into the empty distance. Don't leave me for a second, my dearest,
because in that moment you'll have gone so far I'll wander mazily over all the earth, asking, Will you come back? Will you leave me here, dying?
Before the tumor there were no signs that something was not well with WW?
To give you a sense of a timeline, here goes.
In 1999, her Mother, the saint on Earth if there ever was one, died. On the day of her Mother's funeral, approximately three hours before the funeral, I received a telephone call that my Mother had just died. It was traumatic for both of us, needless to say. My Mother's death was unexpected.
The next year, our youngest son finished high school a year early and went off to college. He is the closet son to her, the baby, and it hit her hard.
The same year, I quit work because I could not longer concentrate hence I was not being productive.
About the same time all of this was going on, she started menopause.
We knew something was wrong with my health because of the way I felt and clinical signs such as hyponatremia. I also had chronic, debilitating headaches.
The headaches were initially diagnosed as sinus headaches. This persisting for a couple of years or so. Then my doc said they could be pressure headaches and occur when the weather switches from a low pressure to high pressure front, or vice versa.
Finally, I visited him one day and told him something was wrong and he needed to figure it out. He sent me for a CT. The CT was clear. The hospital doctor referred me to a neurologist who specializes in migraine headaches. Sure enough, I was diagnosed with migraines. Finally I had a diagnosis.
Problem is, it was still the wrong diagnosis. My doc erred when he ordered a CT; he should have ordered an MRI. CT's are not effective in detecting soft tissue tumors.
Finally, in August 2005, I was rushed to the ER suffering from delusions, inability to walk and zombie like behavior. I went into a coma and the team of doctors gathered my family and advised them to make their peace and say goodbye to me. I was diagnosed with pneumonia, pericardial effusion and severe hyponatremia of 114. Levels below 115 are associated with death, hence the doctors' opinion of my prognosis.
My family did as instructed and they all went to the cafeteria afterwards. Everyone but my middle son who is a spitting image of me in every regard. He witnessed me in an unconscious state having a conversation with Death. I fought and resisted and finally I said: Okay, Death, is that you? I will go with you.
Well, it freaked me son out and he started screaming: Dad, don't go, stay here we love you, we need you. I stayed there although I have no memory of any of it. I finally awoke four days later.
A number of doctors came to examine me in ICU and ask me quesitons. The neurologist and a endocrinilogist both told me they believed I had a brain tumor the manifestation of which were the headaches, the stupor and hormone imbalances.
I finally got the MRI that I had always needed. I will never forget the doctor when he entered my room with a serious, deadpan face. He walked to my bedside with the envelope containing the MRI film in his hands. His simple words: you have a large tumor.
Large I asked?
4 cm. It is not in a good spot.
Talk about your heart sinking. He had already arranged for a neurosurgeon to visit me. He did and quickly elimated surgery as an option and even a biopsy as an option. Radiation would be the treatment. If it was not successful, well, you can guess the rest.
I don't know exactly when my WW started her affair. I figure about four years ago. Do I understand that she felt pressure of all the events that colluded that seem to have as its sole purpose to drive both of us crazy? Absolutely.
I "knew" for along time that she was having an affair and knew with whom. Because of my condition, and my hormones scrambled so badly, I could not confront her. But I knew. We had been married a long time and you learn about your spouse over that period of time.
After I confronted her and later after she finally confessed, I asked her way. Her answer: because I thought you were dying. Her answer was a cop out of course, but nonetheless, it was her answer, however unfortunate.
I found MB and another infidelity website. I gravitated to the other website until Bigger suggested that I visit MB again and specifially Pio's thread. My first reaction was why did he suggest I read Pio's thread. After reading the entire thread over a few days, it occurred to me that Pio and I had a lot in common. Both our wives are Latinas, we both have analytical minds and share a black sense of humor.
Anyway, what was the question?
Please forgive my many typos. The tumor has also affected my vision and that coupled with terrible mechanical keyboarding skills, well, you get the picture.
That Pablo Neruda character was something else. There are good reasons why he won the Nobel Prize.
A Dog Has Died
My dog has died. I buried him in the garden next to a rusted old machine.
Some day I'll join him right there, but now he's gone with his shaggy coat, his bad manners and his cold nose, and I, the materialist, who never believed in any promised heaven in the sky for any human being, I believe in a heaven I'll never enter. Yes, I believe in a heaven for all dogdom where my dog waits for my arrival waving his fan-like tail in friendship.
Ai, I'll not speak of sadness here on earth, of having lost a companion who was never servile. His friendship for me, like that of a porcupine withholding its authority, was the friendship of a star, aloof, with no more intimacy than was called for, with no exaggerations: he never climbed all over my clothes filling me full of his hair or his mange, he never rubbed up against my knee like other dogs obsessed with sex.
No, my dog used to gaze at me, paying me the attention I need, the attention required to make a vain person like me understand that, being a dog, he was wasting time, but, with those eyes so much purer than mine, he'd keep on gazing at me with a look that reserved for me alone all his sweet and shaggy life, always near me, never troubling me, and asking nothing.
Ai, how many times have I envied his tail as we walked together on the shores of the sea in the lonely winter of Isla Negra where the wintering birds filled the sky and my hairy dog was jumping about full of the voltage of the sea's movement: my wandering dog, sniffing away with his golden tail held high, face to face with the ocean's spray.
Joyful, joyful, joyful, as only dogs know how to be happy with only the autonomy of their shameless spirit.
There are no good-byes for my dog who has died, and we don't now and never did lie to each other.
So now he's gone and I buried him, and that's all there is to it.
No, my dog used to gaze at me, paying me the attention I need, the attention required to make a vain person like me understand that, being a dog, he was wasting time, but, with those eyes so much purer than mine, he'd keep on gazing at me with a look that reserved for me alone all his sweet and shaggy life, always near me, never troubling me, and asking nothing.
OM is a serial predator. WW was another notch in his belt, another conquest. I don't know if WW understands that now or not. She may, but cannot accept it. OM, at the time, was married to her best friend in the neighborhood, and BF told WW on countless occassions about OM's serial cheating ways and WW still could not resist his "charm". I think she was attracted to him for whatever reason. I wish I had a pic of him. He is a joke. He is older, several inches shorter than me, weighs more and is not very smart. He thinks he is always dying and has panic attacks if around more than two to three people at a time.
Want to hear the kicker? BF told WW that OM was a racist. According to BF, OM hated all minorities including Hispanics (hate that term BTW; invention of US government). WW has been on the wrong end of discrimination and bias and knows how low it feels. Still, she jumps in the sack with a known racist. It still blows my mind.
I don't know Jen. I guess I had talked about being, or desiring to be Superman so much yesterday, that when I awoke this morning, I for some reason, thought I was Superman.
There is a side porch here about three feet off the ground. I jumped off it and, once again, landed on my head. All my life, the desire to become Superman has guided my every move.
Or Rowdy Yates' girlfriend, or Bart Maverick's girlfriend. James Garner never did it for me. Gee, I laugh when I watch old reruns. They were all seriously nerdy.
No I never saw the Maverick movie - it couldn't have come close to the old black and white TV show. I hate having my illusions shattered. Erm, I think I might be a little YOUNG to remember Michael Landon's first movie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mel is married to an Aussie or maybe she's American. Mel IS an Aussie, maybe born in the USA, can't remember.
Thanks for sharing that Neruda's poem on dog.....it's soooo touching!
As a family, we already have buried one dog a few years back...a female golden retriever...I know when WS had to take her off to the vet I would never see her again.... it was hard!
....two weeks later....the yard felt so empty....went off to the SPCA to see if we 'spotted' a dog to our liking that had been left there....
....and there he was...found our 'current' big dog....who needed to NOT be a golden retriever for obvious reasons..... we were not trying to 'replace' the dog we had lost.....they are 'unique'.....anyway, all shaggy....can hardly see his little black beautiful eyes under all the fur?? hairs?? ....we don't exactly know what 'breed' he is.....he supposedly comes from a 'lineage' of sheepherders.....I guess he must feel a little lost sometimes....no sheeps around our house!
...anyways.....they told us he was about one-two yrs old......figured he must have been 'beautiful' as a pup... but when big dogs get big....people tend to find them high maintenance! ....anyway...he's male....and has this 'big' bark to cover up his 'anxieties'..... barks to anything 'unknown'... he can bark at my moving shadow.... silly dog!..... and when he sleeps it's easy to imagine him....as this BIG baby!
..by the way...have you seen that Italian movie based on Pablo Neruda's 'sejour' in Italy?..... I believe it was called THE POSTMAN..... good movie!
....Sheesh Todd... never thought I would hear myself say this to anyone..... but your WW's A may have actually been the 'least' of your worries....glad to see you're 'hangin in' there!
It's actually past 2am...and I can't sleep....and I know I may be talking to myself....
.....I am actually 'dropping by' to help me to get to sleep!
....I know....I know....LUNAMARE.....'get a life!'
Boy of mine As your fortune comes to carry you down the line And you watch as the changes unfold And you sort among the stories you've been told If some pieces of the picture are hard to find And the answers to your questions are hard to hold
Take good care of your mother When you're making up your mind Should one thing or another take you from behind Though the world may make you hard and wild And determine how your life is styled When you've come to feel that you're the only child Take good care of your brother
Let the disappointments pass Let the laughter fill your glass Let your illusions last until they shatter Whatever you might hope to find Among the thoughts that crowd your mind There won't be many that ever really matter
But take good care of your mother And remember to be kind When the pain of another will serve you to remind That there are those who feel themselves exiled On whom the fortune never smiled And upon whose life the heartache has been piled They're just looking for another Lonely child
And when you've found another soul Who sees into your own Take good care of each other
Todd...thanks for the lyrics.... you are a 'fountain' of knowledge.....
Is this a reference to his song, "Fountain of Sorrow"? That song is his best from a lyrics standpoint, IMHO. My favorite lines are in bold.
Looking through some photographs I found inside a drawer I was taken by a photograph of you There were one or two I know that you would have liked a little more But they didn't show your spirit quite as true
You were turning 'round to see who was behind you And I took your childish laughter by surprise And at the moment that my camera happened to find you There was just a trace of sorrow in your eyes
Now the things that I remember seem so distant and so small Though it hasn't really been that long a time What I was seeing wasn't what was happening at all Although for a while, our path did seem to climb But when you see through love's illusions, there lies the danger And your perfect lover just looks like a perfect fool So you go running off in search of a perfect stranger While the loneliness seems to spring from your life Like a fountain from a pool
Fountain of sorrow, fountain of light You've known that hollow sound of your own steps in flight You've had to hide sometimes, but now you're all right And it's good to see your smiling face tonight
Now for you and me it may not be that hard to reach our dreams But that magic feeling never seems to last And while the future's there for anyone to change, still you know it's seems It would be easier sometimes to change the past I'm just one or two years and a couple of changes behind you In my lessons at love's pain and heartache school Where if you feel too free and you need something to remind you There's this loneliness springing up from your life Like a fountain from a pool
Fountain of sorrow, fountain of light You've known that hollow sound of your own steps in flight
You've had to hide sometimes but now you're all right And it's good to see your smiling face tonight
Fountain of sorrow, fountain of light You've known that hollow sound of your own steps in flight You've had to struggle, you've had to fight To keep understanding and compassion in sight You could be laughing at me, you've got the right But you go on smiling so clear and so bright
Is this a reference to his song, "Fountain of Sorrow"?
No, not really, but thanks for the lyrics...Todd....
Kiwi.....if you see 'Swept Away'...make sure it's the Italian film...it goes back a few years...but I am sure it has 'aged' well....because a few years back...Madonna under the 'direction' of current husband did a remake.....didn't see it...but it's supposed to be bad!
BF told WW on countless occassions about OM's serial cheating ways and WW still could not resist his "charm".
She may had thought that if he had such an 'intense' life, he made had something special about him. There is like a tendency in some women to gravitate to the bad boys. The hard true is that there is no substance under the fame of casanova, as we now to have too many women doesn't mean they are good lovers.
Quote
WW has been on the wrong end of discrimination and bias and knows how low it feels. Still, she jumps in the sack with a known racist. It still blows my mind.
It seems absurd but at the same time makes sense, like if she had tried to make a point. To prove that she could attract him?
When Pio showed the pics of OM, it was hard to believe that she could find him exceptional... Mexico's media culture uses blondes as a simbol of status. Any blonde. I thought that a comun blonde man in England maybe for G was something special. Like if she had more selfwort for attracting that kind of man, even if he in his own country would not call the attention.
....and when does the 'eternal owl' sleep, may I ask?
Years ago, Mohammed Ali was on a commercial flight. The fasten seatbelt sign had been illuminated and the flight attendents had made the announcements. When a flight attendent walked past Ali, she noticed that his seatbelt was not fastened.
So, the attendent said: Mr. Ali, please fasten your seatbelt.
To which Ali responded: Superman don't need no seatbelt.
The quick thinking flight attendent retorted: Superman also don't need no airplance.
There is like a tendency in some women to gravitate to the bad boys. The hard true is that there is no substance under the fame of casanova, as we now to have too many women doesn't mean they are good lovers.
I never realized it before but my WW probably was attracted to bad boys. I have never worried or preoccupied my time with what kind of lover OM is or is not. My WW and I always enjoyed a great intimate life and I am a supremely confident person.
Now, I have read (mostly Stanley's posts) that say that because of the thrill of exciitement over the intrigue of secrecy of the affair, that the feelings are very intense. I wouldn't know. But it doesn't matter to me. What does bother me is the fact that most WW always harbor warming and loving feelings for OM for the rest of their lives. That is tough to accept.
It also bothers me that WW and I considered each other to be our respective soulmates, in fact, that we were made for each other, for thirty two years. Then she met her real soulmate. That part bothers me because it said to me that our relationship and love was built on lies and that in the end, it was something she could put in the trash can and leave at the curb.
Well, it is difficult to find someone who has seen that movie. Just want to share notes.
...Well, Todd.... what 'notes' do you want to share?
Althugh it's been awhile...so I don't remember 'details'..... but I thought it was a good movie....two strong performances.... both are quite big stars in Italy.....the director Lina Wertmuller seems to have liked to work with Giancarlo Giannini.....I saw another film that I thought as 'interesting'.....can't remember the name...wait I will look it up!
...«Pasqualino Settebellezze» or.....in English: «Seven Beauties» ...boy!....and I see that this director has made quite a few films...
....for Swept Away.....the correct name is: «Travolti da un insolito destino nell'azzurro mare d'agosto»......or «Swept Away... by an Unusual Destiny in the Blue Sea of August» and it was made in....1974! (didn't think it was that old)
most WW always harbor warming and loving feelings for OM for the rest of their lives. That is tough to accept.
I couldn't agree more. Even when there are consecuences as divorce.
Quote
It also bothers me that WW and I considered each other to be our respective soulmates, in fact, that we were made for each other, for thirty two years. Then she met her real soulmate. That part bothers me because it said to me that our relationship and love was built on lies and that in the end, it was something she could put in the trash can and leave at the curb.
I would say that your relationship was the real one and the other built on lies. When she was honest and true to her self was when she was with you.
Well, if the radiation treatments are successful, reasonably good
...and when will we know that you are 'out of the woods'?....Todd
Quote
my WW probably was attracted to bad boys.
Todd...does this mean you are one, too?
Quote
It also bothers me that WW and I considered each other to be our respective soulmates, in fact, that we were made for each other, for thirty two years. Then she met her real soulmate. That part bothers me because it said to me that our relationship and love was built on lies and that in the end, it was something she could put in the trash can and leave at the curb.
...I know the feeling, Todd....my WS was big on calling OW his 'soulmate'.....so...I guess... from one day to the next...we became 'chopped liver'?
Hate to leave good company....I will soon need to sign off...I am no 'superman' like Todd....need my beauty sleep if I want to be functional tomorrow.....mmmmm.....at least...borderline functional.....
in my case...I knew that once WS got on the 'romanticized' and 'dreamlike' life with OW....little old me didn't have a chance.....I was part of the 'reality' world......
...and I was better off not 'stopping' WS....even if I could.... because I would never ever measure up to a 'dream'.....rather, the fantasy needed to be 'exposed'...... see how it will weather the lights of 'reality'...... then maybe just maybe 'little old me' might not look so bad! ...time will tell!
....in the meantime....PLAN B hits the spot.... and, compared to the chaos of living with a WS, I would rather be on my own... if one day S pops up.....I will see where I am at, THEN!
...by the way...one of my questions never got answer....
what did Pio have in mind when he called the thread 'TKO'.... (wouldn't be surprised if it was and 'insider' for engineers only!) ...if so....I am totally out of the loop...
I don't have the answers. All I know is that I plan A'd WW for about four months. She continued to sneak off and see OM. She became very cruel and bitter. It was affecting my health. I moved out because she wouldn't.
I think it will either take my WW a very long time to understand the fantasy world in which she lived, or, that she will never understand this. I lean heavily toward the latter. Today, she doesn't think she did anything wrong. She was justified according to her, because I was not there for her when she needed to lean on someone like I had been for 32 years.
My primary care doc told me the story of his Mother cheating. His Dad found out, moved away form the house and two months later died of a heart attack. Still, it took his Mother over five years to accept what she had done. That's my wife. But she will never accept it.
BTW, did I mention that WW sent word thru DS1 that she wants us to meet for dinner and talk? I haven't decided what to do yet.
Yeah, Todd...I got that, too.....apparently...I was there only to help him out of a depression period... yeah, right.....a 20-year depression and the reason he married me and we had children....although before he had sworn to 'never marry'.... and 'never have kids'......
...otherwise...how could he justify that OW is the REAL soulmate!
geesh....what WS's can manage to convince themselves of continues to amaze me!
Todd, that's why...if PLAN A doesn't work....PLAN B or 'distancing' oneself from WS is important..... a major WS trait is being selfish....so....the gloves are off... and a WS can do a LOT of damage if BS does not remove oneself.... because a WS will do whatever it takes to get BS to push them away.... it makes it easier to justify running to OP....
Quote
Today, she doesn't think she did anything wrong. She was justified according to her, because I was not there for her when she needed to lean on someone like I had been for 32 years
..I do believe that is necessary for a WS to do.... helps to avoid having to face the damage done.....
Quote
BTW, did I mention that WW sent word thru DS1 that she wants us to meet for dinner and talk? I haven't decided what to do yet.
....I am not surprised....but remember, Todd....if you meet.... you have a 'soft' spot for her and she knows it... if she is still a WS.....she won't hesitate to 'manipulate' you to her advantage.... now....if there are signs of your W....with some 'consideration' for you.....that would be another story!
Now....I don't remember, Todd (again!).... what's your status.... PLAN B....plan D.... and her A with OM?
I am in PLAN B....prepared to meet with WS if and only if there is concrete evidence of end of A with OW! ...nothing... nothing... short of that (unless of course some real real emergency concerning our boys! .... because then... the 'tigress' in me will come out to protect her cubs! .....GGRRRRR!)
What does bother me is the fact that most WW always harbor warming and loving feelings for OM for the rest of their lives. That is tough to accept.
I think this is true for a WW who hasn't had her affair die a natural death. I have said this before. It's a fact that a WW who "falls in love" and ends the affair will always have feelings for their OM. Why else would NC for life be so important. Question is - "Can you live with that reality?" Even Harley says this is so in HNHN.
Now in our case my wife was "in love" and I busted up her affair. The OM did a pretty good job LB'ing her though before she returned home and since with some stunts he has been pulling with my kids.
Her feelings for him, according to her are gone. She is indifferent. But I think Harley understands my wife's mind better than she does and I think we will stick with NC for life. My wife may be right but I do think she will remain susceptible to him for a long time if not forever.
Once that romantic love is established, it fundamentally changes the way you see that person for the rest of your life. Unless you're able to spend enough time with that person in a way that completely destroys their "love bank" account, that chemistry is always there. Ever heard the saying that Friends who become Lovers can never be just Friends again? It's true. There is a line that is crossed that changes things forever. This is not to say that we sit around and "pine" after that person.
I could 100% relate to what Low said above since my EA also not died a natural death and since there are no withdrawals made from my “love bank” for him. However, I don’t sit around and “pine” after OM. Before the massive e-mail exchanges more than 2 months ago, I eventually succeeded in detaching from my feelings and assign it to "the past", but the e-mail contact of recently have opened up everything again and it took me a while to go through the detaching-process again. I'm not completely through this process again, but I'm working on it. I view it as part of the consequences of my recent behavior and betrayal towards my H.
It isn't so strange Suzet - I view it as straight Harley Love Bank 101. As much as I would like to think my wife has no feelings for OM, if you believe what Harley says about the Love Bank it's obvious before he even says it at the back of his book that feelings persist just below the surface awaiting contact or a re-ignition. Again NC is for life and is the only sure fire way of preventing re-kindling of the affair.
Look OM in my wife's case has done some serious damage to LB balance. She quite literally NEVER wants to see him ever again. He did track her down and corner her in a store recently - she totally freaked out - called me up straight away. But given the right conditions, say if our marriage wasn't doing so well, his marriage wasn't doing well, they crossed paths.... well she fell "in love" with him once before.... why not again.
I totally agree with the NC for life principal BigK… And I know it wouldn’t take me so long to get through withdrawal the first time around and I wouldn’t had a relapse recently if it wasn’t for the situation I still find myself in of working at the same company than OM.
I think the TKO issue was addressed on the very first page of the thread.
I am extremely angry that WW brought up the one week visit to OM. Of all the things she could have said, why was it that? Or why didn't she just keep her mouth shut. To be honest, since she said that, I am leaning to divorce. I can do much better than her.
...and when will we know that you are 'out of the woods'?....Todd
I am not sure. I am scheduled for my first followup MRI in a couple of weeks. That will be the first glimpse to see if any progress - or is it regress - has been made. I think it is monthly MRI's after that.
Quote
my WW probably was attracted to bad boys.
Todd...does this mean you are one, too?
Hmm... never thought of myself as a bad boy. I guess in some ways I am, but honestly, I am too sweet and considerate to be classified as such.
Can anyone give me a possible explanation why WW would ask about the week visit to OM that is NOT what I think it is?
For everyone's quick reference, here is Pio's post concerning his conversation with G at the airport.
Quote
I am sure I gave her a few DJ's but I told her that I expected her to take time and decide what she wants and I will accept either decision as long as she stays away from OM. If she contacts him at all, our M is done. I told her that it would be very easy for her to come back. I told her that all she had to do was leave the A behind and tell me she was totally committed to try to make the M work and then bust her butt trying. She asked why I had told her before that she might want to take a week holiday (screwfest) with OM in England on her way back and now I am telling her she can't. That just made me mad. She complained that I am being inconsistent. She never realized that I was being sarcastic when I mentioned the one week holiday. I think she is simply clueless.
I agree that her comment is worrisome. Either she was disappointed to learn that no, you were not serious about her meeting with OM or she just wanted to point out what she saw as you being inconsistent. I don't know. I would try to let it go. Regardless of her words, would you ever really know if she hooked up with OM again?
This reminds me of a comment ex made to me the final time he said he wanted to D & was moving a head with it.
I told him in the year of false recovery (didn't refer to it that way to him) he never opened his heart to me. I also said I didn't feel he really tried to save the marriage, simply coasted & expected love for me to jump back in his heart without work. He said "You have no idea what I've given up to stay here." Quote marks probably aren't fair since I've tried to put it all out of my mind.
What I think he was referring to was not seeing his gf (as much) or not being able to move forward with her. The A.H.things that WS let pop out of their mouths & the things they think (or don't) never cease to amaze me.
So are we discussing relationships and marriage on this thread? Are you telling me I have just wasted a couple of days deciding what action-figure I wanted to be? Superman never cut the cake with me. I think it’s dorky to wear underwear outside your leotards. I was thinking Captain America but then I guess I like the French too much. Maybe the Hulk in lieu of my screen-name.
So you want a reason for her to bring up “the week”. I can give you a couple.
There is the obvious one. The one you seem latched onto. Gem wants her pool boy. That’s simple.
There are other ones that MIGHT sound strange until you consider that it would be very strange for her to ask permission to see lover boy. For example, you state you said it in irony. Irony and sarcasm do not translate well. Could there be a language issue here? Could she have taken your offer as a serious one and therefore (a) thought she had a “good to go” from you or (b) thought you really didn’t care for her?
Another theory: Sometimes when people argue or are in a state of confrontation for a long time the original infringement looses it’s “weight” as a motivator to remain in the state of confrontation. People get stuck in a behaviour pattern without the original cause for the pattern to really weight in. What this means is that you are “over” the pain of Gem’s affair but are not happy with her. Maybe because of her lack of commitment to recovery. Therefore you react disproportionally to certain triggers like the letters and like her comment. These events give you reason to remain in the confrontation pattern.
It’s not one sided. I am 100% certain Gem is doing the same. This is why I think that if you two want to survive this as a couple you need outside help. Someone to get you two out of the rut.
There is the very likely and possible result that you have totally fallen out of love and out of interest for Gem. That does happen often with infidelity. That’s what happened to me. You might feel pressure or an urgency to make things work and you can use all sort of justification for that but maybe D is your only viable solution. One very Dr. Phil-like solution is to “try out” a decision. Try or a week to THINK you have decided to divorce her (not whether you will d her). Push away all thoughts of when she comes back, plan like she was out of your life. See how you feel with that.
No matter what you do then don’t dwell on whether she is at Heathrow airport or whether pool-boy is cleaning her flies right now. You can’t influence that. Personally I think the A is over and PB has moved on to greener pastures.
I always assumed it meant Technical Knock Out, a term from boxing.
...thanks for answering my very 'trivial' question.... Pio must have felt it applied to BS..... I am sure he'll 'weigh' in on this next time we hear from him....
BigK,
Quote
I think this is true for a WW who hasn't had her affair die a natural death.
...I am with you on this one.....that's why I think that the M....given that it's probably flawed....as things are in the 'reality' world...does not have a chance compared to a R that is strictly seen at 'fantasyland' level.... to be fair.... it needs to be put through the 'reality' test....and that's where an A, based on lies, damaged relationships, destroyed families....often doesn't hold up!...then...depending on the WS, though, some will be prepared to admit it, others NOT....things like pride, shame, guilt and denial may get in the way...
Hi Pio,
Quote
I think the TKO issue was addressed on the very first page of the thread.
....thanks for the info. I'll check it out to see if Todd and BigK had it right!
Quote
I am extremely angry that WW brought up the one week visit to OM. Of all the things she could have said, why was it that? Or why didn't she just keep her mouth shut. To be honest, since she said that, I am leaning to divorce. I can do much better than her.
I wonder if G. wanted to see how you might react were she to be in contact with OM..... hoping to get some 'latitude' and 'corner you' to approve contact with OM ...and maybe YOU were expecting her to KNOW the obvious? ...sounds to me she is still a WS....if so, Pio, protect your heart....a WS's 'logic' can drive a BS crazy!
Todd,
Quote
I am told it is about shifting power within relationships. Do you agree?
....yes...I agree....and by extension, the two 'social classes' as well.... in case you don't remember...I was born and brought up in Italy......and compared to North America....the burden of the 'history' of the country can be felt at the turn of every corner! ....tourists would not pick this up .....and from what I know of the director....she was into 'social criticism'....and in Italy....there is a lot to criticize!
Quote
Hmm... never thought of myself as a bad boy. I guess in some ways I am, but honestly, I am too sweet and considerate to be classified as such.
I would agree.......so then...I guess your WS may have gone for the 'opposite'....for a change! ... because in my case....I found WS at times was holding 'against' me everything that was the reason why he choose to be with me in the first place....this is where I find WS's play 'mind games' with the BS.... and I was just NOT into it!
....I feel with PLAN B, I broke away from the triangle... so now WS and OW will need to look at each other....and maybe find that sometimes they are not as pretty as their 'fantasyland' would have them believe they are!
That comment about the OM in the context of what you were saying to her about what she needed to do to come back to the marriage, doesn't make sense.
I don't know how long ago you had said the comment 'she could visit PB'
I agree with the comments of Bigger about you two needing outside help or something that makes your discussions and your persperctives to move further. Some of the things you have describe her about your interactions with her, are just ways to get your justified anger out but don't help in the big squeme of things. It really sucks that you were agraviated by the affair and then you have to play nice to keep the WW. If you see it day by day it's not fair, if you see it in the big picture of keeping your marriage and recover the love of your wife, it may worth the effort.
To me G doesn't appear as a money grabber WW or a mean person. She hasn't had all the independent behavior of many WW here. I think she could have brought the topic of OM in a inmature way to leave you that image to make you jelous.
As we know OM is not the problem. I think she needs something that gives her sense of self and that helps her to recover her sense of identity in the context of her marriage and family. That's why I have been trying to tell you that some of your comments and actions, although justify, may not been helping you. You can say almost every thing you want but the 'how' you say it's very important for the XWW, because they are very needy vulnerable creatures. They know they have done wrong, but they can't take to much bashing, for too long.
The example of the leather clothes. Instead of answering the way you did, you could have tell her -I understand that you want to give your sister the dress cleaned and all but as these are our last days togehter, I ask you to solve the problem in Mx. The other option would have been to buy a can of cleaner.
The way you answered to her seemed, to me, as a remainder that it's you who make the money, like if she, even been your wife can't decide to pay for a dry cleaning. The other aspect that G could have gotten for your words is that you don't care about other people outside your own family. I think your position is the healthy and wise one but G is a caring person and a woman whose way to show her value is to doing nice things for others. Karina is her only sister and on top of that her twin.
Ok since we're all being serious here I think as a FWW I can give my opinion.
I don't hate the OM but I don't love him either. I am indifferent to him. 2long summed it up perfectly. When it comes to A's the MO is "I'm in love with you but I don't love you." Love is what I have with my H. I'm certainly not going to pine for the OM for the rest of my life. I am going to enjoy my final years with the man I love and the man who loves me (even if he did wear faded red shorts).
Pio, if she did go to be with pool boy, can you imagine what it would be like. I don't think she has ANY idea what his life is really like. I could see it the minute I saw the photos of him. I've seen that type of young Englishman before and I'm sure you have too. I know you've said you wouldn't have her back if she goes to him but don't you think that the cold reality of his real life (if he can even remember her) might just fix the wire in her head.
....yes...I agree....and by extension, the two 'social classes' as well.... in case you don't remember...I was born and brought up in Italy......
Yes I remember. You now live in Quebec and are a French sympathizer like bigger. And, oh yeah, like ahuman. At least she has an excuse.
When the new power couple returned to the mainland and the woman abandoned her new beau for her rich husband, the point of the movie hit me like a sandstorm. A misdirection of sorts. Billiantly done.
Are you telling me I have just wasted a couple of days deciding what action-figure I wanted to be? Superman never cut the cake with me. I think it’s dorky to wear underwear outside your leotards. I was thinking Captain America but then I guess I like the French too much.
Bigger!
Okay you crossed a line. I don't mind you defending or even liking the French, but putting Superman down? Unforgiveable.
KIWI: if she did go to be with pool boy, can you imagine what it would be like. I don't think she has ANY idea what his life is really like. I could see it the minute I saw the photos of him. I've seen that type of young Englishman before and I'm sure you have too. I know you've said you wouldn't have her back if she goes to him but don't you think that the cold reality of his real life (if he can even remember her) might just fix the wire in her head.
I agree with Kiwi.....but, unless OM has moved on, I don't think a WEEK would be enough for 'reality' to hit them... but I also saw the pictures of OM, Pio....I might be stereotyping.... but I don't think he's holding his 'breath' for G.... in my youth.....I came across a few of his 'type'.....it always amazed me how quickly they moved from one girl to another!
Todd,
Quote
Yes I remember. You now live in Quebec and are a French sympathizer like bigger.
well maybe not quite...I think the French in Quebec feel a lot of 'hurt' from past events...history shows that they WERE 'exploited'..... they lost 'trust' in the heads of state to 'take care of them'.... but like everything..... you can't change the past....but rather you need to come to terms with it.... which is why I am not sure the 'independence' issue will do the trick.....
at some level....just like a D does not 'fix' everything...does it?
...but maybe Quebec will have to be given a chance to have what it wants...independence....to realize that it won't do the trick...to be able to 'move on'.... at the very least it might feel less 'threatened' on the North American continent..feel more in control of its destiny....it's politics.....and that's never black and white....
For me....once you have been 'uprooted'....the roots don't take as well on new land...and it's never quite the same....hard for me to identify with the 'passionate' claim of the nationalists (sp?) here....and don't feel that it's the root of the problem (geesh...anyone want a ROOTbeer?)
.....I think that everybody has their 'empty hole' that can never be filled.... I am not complaining....what I consider to be some of main qualities come from being 'uprooted' at a very young age....the other side of the coin...is that nowhere do I feel that I 'belong'...but then again what I consider to be my 'global' perspective comes from the same place....so I never try to fill my 'empty hole'.....because I know it's an 'unfillable' hole..... so, I manage it.....and at times it is a great source of strength for me..... but I am getting off topic here...sorry!
Quote
When the new power couple returned to the mainland and the woman abandoned her new beau for her rich husband, the point of the movie hit me like a sandstorm. A misdirection of sorts. Billiantly done.
...things are never what they appear to be! ...take Clark Kent!
I think it’s dorky to wear underwear outside your leotards.
...does this mean Superman wears two underwears? There also must have been extra large phone booths in his time, too, for Clark to change into his superhero costume.... in our 'cellular' world....he may have to 'move on' to elevators...but then....many have cameras....what's a superhero to do....any suggestions, Todd, for your favourite hero?
...does this mean Superman wears two underwears? There also must have been extra large phone booths in his time, too, for Clark to change into his superhero costume.... in our 'cellular' world....he may have to 'move on' to elevators...but then....many have cameras....what's a superhero to do....any suggestions, Todd, for your favourite hero?
Let it be known that Superman can change clothes so quickly that a visual recording of his doing so would be a mass blur. His identity would remain safe.
Does he wear two underwears? I will ask him next time I see him. Or, I could ask Lois Lane I suppose.
I agree with Kiwi.....but, unless OM has moved on, I don't think a WEEK would be enough for 'reality' to hit them... but I also saw the pictures of OM, Pio....I might be stereotyping.... but I don't think he's holding his 'breath' for G.... in my youth.....I came across a few of his 'type'.....it always amazed me how quickly they moved from one girl to another!
There is a belief here at MB that if a WS spends enough time with the OP, especially in the face of exposure, that the two will begin to see each other in a realistic light and thus begins the dissolution of their relationship.
Yes, this can happen but I wonder what the statistics are? Between this site and SI.com, there are countless couples comprised of WS/OP combinations who have been together, married in fact, for years.
Having said that, one advantage that Pio had was the capability to have OM sent packing back to the UK. One disadvantage in Pio's sitch is that he sent OM back to the UK. It would have been preferable to allow the sophmoric romance to die a natural death. Assuming it would have.
Nonetheless, that is spilled milk (scene from "I Was a Teenage Werewolf"} and Pio is left with a WW who saved the love cards and wonders if it is okay for her to spend time with OM. In my best opinion that I can conjure, WW is not over OM and apparently has no interest in being over OM. She is the classic cakewoman, not wanting to leave her DD's, but also wanting the OM. Where does Pio fit in? He doesn't feel WW's love. His decision to send WW to Mexico and take care of his DD's is the correct one. I hope the plan works out for the best. If not, it sounds as if Pio is prepared to move on with his life.
There is a belief here at MB that if a WS spends enough time with the OP, especially in the face of exposure,the two will begin to see each other in a realistic light and thus begins the dissolution of their relationship.
...that's my point, too, Todd, this process may actually take years....and often may never see the 'light'.... so...for G. one week with OM is just a drop in the ocean...
Quote
WW is not over OM and apparently has no interest in being over OM.
It may not be what you want to hear, Pio, but I think Todd is right on this point....and I don't even think it actually has anything to do with OP, really....sometimes it's the need to believe that a 'fantasyland' love exists somewhere, even if it does not turn out to be the current OP..... just like the one we imagined in our adolescent years.....unfortunately, by wanting to hold on to these 'youthful' ideals of the past....is what 'blinds' WS's to see all that they are giving up for it in the 'present'.....
Quote
His decision to send WW to Mexico and take care of his DD's is the correct one. I hope the plan works out for the best. If not, it sounds as if Pio is prepared to move on with his life.
...this course of action will allow both Pio and G. to 'live out' the consequences of a separation...before considering the big D....allowing both of them to see if that is the direction they want to take.....imagining how a 'separation' would be like and actually 'living it' is not the same.....I don't know about G.....but I think it will be helpful to you, Pio....
When I say a week would do it, in this case I mean it.
I don't think the OM lives in a gorgeous country house or even in the glorious Yorkshire Dales. My bet is the OM lives in a two up two down terraced house in a pretty grim part of Yorkshire.
No gold or lots of lovely shoes, no golf at the country club and probably a brassy blonde mum who thinks a pint at the pub is the ultimate in a good night out.
I don't think Americans have ANY idea what it's like. It's not all royalty and posh accents. Pio knows, he's lived there.
When was the last time you saw your WW face to face ?
The day I moved out which I think was in March. Memory is the second thing to go.
"What did you write about to her on your las mail exchange?"
Well, the email exchanges started on coordination of financial matters. I asked her now that she had a few months to reflect on things, how does she feel about her affair, OM and the reason she gave me for having her affair.
Her unfortunate response was that she didn't have an affair, that she told me that because it was what I wanted to hear. I know where this new "deny everything" policy came from. Before I moved out, I overheard a telephone conversation that WW had with her Best Friend, enabler number one. In that conversation, she said that OM was livid with her for admitting the affair and that he would "deny it from now on" and that she had better deny it also.
What the all-knowing OM did not know was that the wheels of exposure were already in motion. I exposed to OMXW who told me she was going to expose to their only son. Son called OM who, as he promised, denied everything. Son called mom back who decided that if OM was going to continue to lie about his escapades, she was going to fill DS in on the truth spanning 34 years. Son called OM back and was livid. DS is possibly the only person in the world that OM truly loves. Hence his new policy: deny everything.
Then our emails went downhill from there. WW assured me she wanted a D because I had shown her what kind of man I was when I moved out. I left her to fend for herself alone, to endure a tornado alone and to sell "her" house alone. Now that she knew the truth about what kind of man I was, she had no interest in staying married to me.
When presented with a challenge, I don't shirk from responding. My philosophy is if someone lobs a hand grendade into your camp, you open the silos in North Dakota and let loose of half a dozen ICBM's.
Thus, I told WW that she had shown me what kind of woman she was. I called her la puta a number of times and assured her that my manhood is alive and well and suggested to her that she is no longer a "lady" if she, in fact, ever was one. I also mentioned some plans I have for OM which was unfortunate.
A Cold War ensued with no communication. Finally, she wrote back that she had questions about our "assets" and that she wanted to keep paying my life insurance policies instead of me. See where this was headed? What she didn't know is that assets have been moved/retitled and life policies beneficiaries changed to my three sons as well as fundamental changes in my will and estate plan.
Some time ago you mention your WW was involved with someone else in the same street or something like that. Is she still seen this person as far as you know?
Would you say she always wanted to remain married but she wanted to have some 'pasion' on the side?
I answered only in the sense of assuring her I would continue to pay for my own life insurance premiums. I was silent on the assets retitling, will, estate plan and beneficiary.
Quote
Some time ago you mention your WW was involved with someone else in the same street or something like that. Is she still seen this person as far as you know?
She was involved with a neighbor in a four + year affair as far as I can conclude. She also had a "fling" of whatever duration with a second neighbor.
I have no idea if she is still seeing either OM. My youngest son and I went to dinner a couple of nights ago and he told me WW is not seeing OM any longer. I asked him how he knew and he said trust me I know. My guess is that he visited OM1 and confronted him and advised him not to see his mom anymore. Both youngest and oldest sons vowed to confront OM. I am not concerned about oldest son doing so for his emotions, if not anger, will be in check and physically, he could mercifully punish OM. I was a little concerned about youngest son, not from a physical standpoint but with the province of youth, he sometimes lets anger become his master, instead of his servant.
Quote
Would you say she always wanted to remain married but she wanted to have some 'pasion' on the side?
I honestly don't know. She had always been flirtatious and stared at men in public. Now bear in mind, if I had stared at women in public (I didn't because I had too much consideration and respect for her, even if she didn't for me), I would have caught the third degree.
My belief is that there was first an attraction to OM, then affection followed by love followed by the affair. Just a guess on my part.
The deny factor. ex was Special Forces & he once told me they were told to deny, deny, deny in the face of things they didn't want known. H lived by this long after he was no longer S.F. Still does in fact. So, when I asked if he was having an affair & he said no I didn't believe him. I never expected a truthfull answer from him. I wanted one & would have work through the affair had he admited it but as Todd said..."spilled milk".
I described OM as a serial predator. Psychologists use the term philanderers. My favorite author of infidelity books is Dr. Frank Pittman. I have pasted below an article he wrote for PsychologyToday.com.
Pittman's description fits OM perfectly. It is uncanny how well he describes OM. Philanderers are obviously very sick individuals.
Philandering
Philandering is a predominantly male activity. Philanderers take up infidelity as a hobby. Philanderers are likely to have a rigid and concrete concept of gender; they worship masculinity, and while they may be greatly attracted to women, they are mostly interested in having the woman affirm their masculinity. They don't really like women, and they certainly don't want an equal, intimate relationship with a member of the gender they insist is inferior, but far too powerful. They see women as dangerous, since women have the ability to assess a man's worth, to measure him and find him wanting, to determine whether he is man enough.
These men may or may not like sex, but they use it compulsively to affirm their masculinity and overcome both their homophobia and their fear of women. They can be cruel, abusive, and even violent to women who try to get control of them and stop the philandering they consider crucial to their masculinity. Their life is centered around displays of masculinity, however they define it, trying to impress women with their physical strength, competitive victories, seductive skills, mastery of all situations, power, wealth, and, if necessary, violence. Some of them are quite charming and have no trouble finding women eager to be abused by them.
Philanderers may be the sons of philanderers, or they may have learned their ideas about marriage and gender from their ethnic group or inadvertently from their religion. Somewhere they have gotten the idea that their masculinity is their most valuable attribute and it requires them to protect themselves from coming under female control. These guys may consider themselves quite principled and honorable, and they may follow the rules to the letter in their dealings with other men. But in their world women have no rights.
To men they may seem normal, but women experience them as narcissistic or even sociopathic. They think they are normal, that they are doing what every other real man would do if he weren't such a wimp. The notions of marital fidelity, of gender equality, of honesty and intimacy between husbands and wives seem quite foreign from what they learned growing up. The gender equality of monogamy may not feel compatible to men steeped in patriarchal beliefs in men being gods and women being ribs. Monogamous sexuality is difficult for men who worship Madonnas for their sexlessness and berate Eves for their seductiveness.
Philanderers' sexuality is fueled by anger and fear, and while they may be considered "sex addicts" they are really "gender compulsives" desperately doing whatever they think will make them look and feel most masculine. They put notches on their belts in hopes it will make their penises grow bigger. If they can get a woman to die for them, like opera composer Giacomo Puccini did in real life and in most of his operas, they feel like a real man.
Todd you are describing the serial cheater (philanderer).
Below is the best description of the common or garden variety cheater I've ever read. I had to dredge it up from my long forgotten old posts. It's from "The Tempted Woman".
Quote
-Married women usually have affairs with married men because in the beginning they are classified as "safe." "He's married so we can be friends and he won't hit on me."
-The relationship usually develops from a friendship. It develops slowly.
-OM knows how to give compliments
-He makes you feel as though you are sharing something important during your time spent together
-May offer emotional support if marriage troubles are discussed -OM is good at creating a sense of fun, playfulness, or just an upbeat attitude that may be missing at home.
-He listens w/ empathy & understanding. He's a good communicator. You feel truly heard.
-He encourages you in your goals.
-He is persistent.
-If sex is involved it is usually does not come for three to six months into the relationship.
-For women the emotional bond must come first. They must feel that they love the OM.
What the OM wants:
-They want the A to stay w/in bounds
-They thrive on the diversion, the excitement of the illicit, forbidden sex. the variety. His W may not like to try "new" things.
-Some get relief from home. May be having M issues. May have a W that ignores him for kids, work, etc.
-Able to reveal themselves emotionally.
- Doesn't want the R to get serious!!
-He may say "I love you" but he still isn't committing to anything
-Men regard an A as an addition to marriage not as possible replacement
-Most men let the married women know about the restrictions of the R. "I'd never divorce my wife because of the kids." That is the number 1 excuse the OM uses
-The woman's emotional investment flatters the OM but causes discomfort
-Married women are unlikely to end the undiscovered A. It's usually the OM.
I could envision WW and OM's affair going down just the way you described. OM's behavior is a perfect example of a philanderer, however.
I know the guy. He is such a jerk and a looser. Now, at least OM2 is a decent guy. He was my friend; obviously, not at this point. I have yet to expose to his wife. I will but only after I am able to confront his sorry a$$.
My EX was a philander. He didn't lie. Early on the relationship I learnt that if asked he would say the truth and I may not like it. I guess he felt so entitled that he didn't thought he should give explanations of any kind.
That poems is so precise, each image so perfectly crafted. It alwasy impresses me how it describes and creates a sensation.
No, she never took care of me. She thought I was "imagining things". I will tell you the story.
I became very ill one night. Intense headache and numbness on the side of my face. I told WW I needed to go to the hospital. Something was wrong. It was two days after Christmas so our sons were home from college. Their cars had our cars blocked in the garage so WW called OMXW and asked if she would drive us to the hospital. She said yes, but OM actually was the one to show up to drive us.
At the hospital, I was immmediately taken to a treatment room and they started running tests. I looked up and WW was gone. I asked a nurse to find her and tell her I needed her by my side. I was in pain and full of worry. Finally, WW showed up. I asked her where she was.
"I was with OM in the waiting room. I hate for him to sit by himself".
"You would rather I lay here in ER by myself?"
"Well, you know, he drove us here and I feel badly that he is alone in the waiting room".
"Do you not feel badly that I am here with tubes running out of me all alone"?
"Well, you know, he drove us here and is waiting for us".
Well, that was the first shot she fired across the bow. I did not equate her with an affair but it is clear now that an attraction was already in place, two months after OM and XW moved across the street from us.
Not only did WW did not care for me, when I was hospitalized, which was five or six times, she constantly complained that it was such a long drive to the hospital. Larousse, it was a five minute drive. What was her problem? She was pining for and wanted to be with the OM. My being in the hospital was impeding her love and sex life with OM.
She NEVER drove me to a doctor's appointment. I either took a taxi or one of my sons would drive me. When she got home form work, WW never asked how my doctor's appointment went or how an MRI was. Never.
She thought I was dying, and apparently, was happy with her belief, for that would leave her free to have a relationship with OM.
So, take care of me? Not on your life.
And thus, when you asked when I take her back. No way. What she did, or didn't do, is unforgivable.
I'm sorry you went throught that lack of care and honesty from your WW.
I didn't mean to dismiss or minimize her actions. Today someone told me about her work problems and how two month of lack of effort had erased her excellent performance of 5 previous years.
It was indeed a very uncaring and callous behavior from your WW.
And it was so uncharacteristic of her. Until hse started her A, she was the sweetest woman in the world. I fell in love with her instantly when I met her, and she said, she with me.
Honestly, I have always had a weakness/fondness for Latin women. I dated a few Latinas in high school and when I met my wife, I instantly became head over heels, an unusual behavior for me.
What is also so crazy is that, until she started her affair, she was the most jealous person in the world. Funny how affairs change people.
I am logical and methodical. I kept notes for a long time before I confronted her. I gave her all the details of her affair. I had time logs, video, pictures and phone logs. She knows I know. She is in denial mode because it is what OM wanted to go to. He is trying to retract his son's belief. It won't work, of course, but he seems to be as unrealistic as WW. For all practical purposes, from what I have heard, his son has all but disowned him. You learn a lot about folks by watching their behavior when under pressure/
It was a ruby that she wore On a chain around her neck In the shape of a heart In the shape of a heart It was a time I won't forget For the sorrow and regret And the shape of a heart And the shape of a heart
I guess I never knew What she was talking about I guess I never knew What she was living without
People speak of love don't know what they're thinking of Wait around for the one who fits just like a glove Speak in terms of belief and belonging Try to fit some name to their longing People speak of love
There was a hole left in the wall From some ancient fight About the size of a fist Or something thrown that had missed And there were other holes as well In the house where our nights fell Far too many to repair In the time that we were there
People speak of love don't know what they're thinking of Reach out to each other though the push and shove Speak in terms of a life and the learning Try to think of a word for the burning
You keep it up You try so hard To keep a life from coming apart And never know What breaches and faults are concealed In the shape of a heart
It was the ruby that she wore On a stand beside the bed In the hour before dawn When I knew she was gone And I held it in my hand For a little while And dropped it into the wall Let it go, heard it fall
I guess I never knew What she was talking about I guess I never knew What she was living without People speak of love don't know what they're thinking of Wait around for the one who fits just like a glove Speak in terms of a life and the living Try to find the word for forgiving
You keep it up You try so hard To keep a life from coming apart And never know The shallows and the unseen reefs That are there from the start In the shape of a heart
but then if you shared with her all the facts you have how can she try to refute them just by saying it didn't happend? Delusion I guess.
Left to her own devices, WW is fairly realistic. Her behavior is reflective of OM. He intends to keep denying any of his affairs.
BTW, OMXW told me she suspected he was having an affair with a woman in California, a venue he travels to a great deal. I discovered she works for the same company that OM works for.
I hired a PI to follow him and have evidence of that affair. I am holding it as "dry powder" at this point but will reveal it when it is most favorable to me. Could be in court, who knows?
I had a teacher at the literature faculty, he studied civil ingeniery but switched to literature. He arrived to Mx after having spend some years in Cuba. All his family had been ripped appart during the Civil War in Spain.
He got married to the daughter of a very famous Spanish exiled in Mx. They were married like 26 years. He had had some 'friends' along the years, mainly students or coleges.
All along his infidelities, he never wanted to divorce or separate or anything like that; he 'loved' his wife. One day his wife heard him arrenging a 'date' with another woman. His wife confronted him and he denied anything wrong between them. She told him, I'm going to go to Spain, (it was the begining of the democracy) if you keep saying that you had not had any affairs. He kept saying nothing had happened and his wife left him. To this day he, he's nearly 70 years old, he says he wants his wife back but he is just unable to admit his infidelities to her. Very sad.
When you are 70 what can you remember. Maybe that is what I need - old age.
We had a pretty good day yesterday but DD1 wanted to talk to mommy so I let her call. DD1 was in tears and begging mommy to come home. Later I talked to WW and she said I couldn't handle the kids. I went ballistic. I asked her who was responsible for all this. I told her DD1 was fine until she got on the phone. DD1 always does this - even when I travel. After DD1 got off the phone she was fine again. WW asked if she should come back. I asked what would that solve. The basic problem still exists. I said if we D then DD1 will still have to deal with this and right now my inclination is divorce based on her comment at the airport.
We go back to Saudi tomorrow. I just want to end this vacation from he!!. I took the girls to the lake and rented a boat. They got scared after they fell off the tube so I took the boat back and got a jet ski. DD2 didn't want to ride the jet ski but I told her to try it and if she didn't like it I would bring her back and let her sit while DD1 and I went out. Well DD2 didn't like the jet ski so I took her back but then realized I couldn't leave her on the dock all by herself so we left. DD1 was angry and said I broke my promise. I told her that something could have happened to DD2 while we were gone. I have a lot to learn about being a single parent.
I think denial gives WSs a mental & emotional out. They know deep in their nasty little hearts what they've done & that it's wrong (for most spouses who started out as caring that is). They allow themselves the indulgence of denial as a way of lessening the facts of betrayal. It allows them the ability to re-write history which so many WSs do. Denial allows them to live with themselves & to plant the seed of doubt in others who don't have the first hand experience BSs do.
Pio, Sorry to hear things are proving to be a challenge...your DD's would have probably gave you the same grief re: of the presence of mom or not...it is difficult to keep everyone happy at once...even unrealistic at times. Sometimes the cheap and simple activities end up being easier/more fun especially since if it doesn't work out you don't get so disappointed.
All, We started MC last night...God Bless our counselor...H hasn't looked me in the eye of spoken to me since we left the office...when we left he dropped me off at home and went out...when he came home he went to bed and pretended as if I didn't exist. Irony is that nothing was said there that wasn't said to each other before. Basically he told the counselor the reason he wanted to recover marriage was for the kids. The counselor asked if there were any feelings left for me and H said yes but added nothing else. Basically it was like the ultimate fight match and I think the counselor was a bit overwhelmed with the amount of and intensity of info. I'm hoping he gives us a plan of action and some work to do between sessions next time since there wasn't any real assignment except for us to try and decide what we wanted to spend time together doing...we spend zero time together so you would think this would be an easy task.
The counselor told me I needed to be patient that I couldn't get what I needed overnight...I wish he had a clue of how patient I have been. At one point I asked H if he even wanted to go on with the counseling session...counselor told me he thought H was just venting and to hang on. H verbalizing that he didn't want to invest emotional tme and effort b/c he felt that when my work situation changes in a year that any headway will be lost b/c I will be too busy to care about our M again...this is H's perspective on how I was in our M prior to the last year...he uses this fiction to validate why it's ok to seek OWs to meet all his needs. He actually told the counselor that I should be happy that I don't have to do anything since he gets ALL of his needs met by other people...
I'm frustrated...it's a great step that he was even willing and showed up at MC so I am hanging on to that for now and am trying to keep busy with kids etc.
Todd...the poetry is moving...a bit depressing but very descriptive...I can relate to most. I do enjoy JB lyrics as well. Thanks. Hope you are hanging in there. I think that the reason you really relate to Superman is b/c you have that soft spot for trying to do what is right, maintaining justice, fighting for the little people and rescuing those in need. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you are enamoured by all the superpowers but I believe it goes a bit deeper.
Todd...the poetry is moving...a bit depressing but very descriptive...I can relate to most. I do enjoy JB lyrics as well. Thanks. Hope you are hanging in there.
Neruda is a little depressing with some of his poetry. I have gotten so cold in my attitude towards my WW that the poems are helpful in drawing out some emotions. I am a guy after all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I think that the reason you really relate to Superman is b/c you have that soft spot for trying to do what is right, maintaining justice, fighting for the little people and rescuing those in need. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you are enamoured by all the superpowers but I believe it goes a bit deeper.
Wow, never had my dream and desire to be Superman analyzed. Yes, peace, justice and the American way!
Alas, I am afraid that I am pretty shallow. I just want to have x-ray vision, to be able to fly and have bullets bounce off me like wet macaroni.
Ah ha...supershallow...I'm right there with you...wishing I had some ESP, impenatrable emotional armor and the ability to leap small/large problems in a single bound...Da,Ta, Da, Da, Da, Ta, Da, Da
...wishing I had some ESP, impenatrable emotional armor and the ability to leap small/large problems in a single bound..
I don't exactly understand why, but when I read this portion of your post, the following lyrics sprang to mind.
A winters day In a deep and dark December; I am alone, Gazing from my window to the streets below On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow. I am a rock, I am an island.
I’ve built walls, A fortress deep and mighty, That none may penetrate. I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain. It’s laughter and it’s loving I disdain. I am a rock, I am an island.
Don’t talk of love, But I’ve heard the words before; It’s sleeping in my memory. I won’t disturb the slumber of feelings that have died. If I never loved I never would have cried. I am a rock, I am an island.
I have my books And my poetry to protect me; I am shielded in my armor, Hiding in my room, safe within my womb. I touch no one and no one touches me. I am a rock, I am an island.
And a rock feels no pain; And an island never cries.
Everything has gone quiet again. Gives me time to post poetry. Below is my favorite poem. It is short but packs a whallop. It has tremendous linkage and cohesion and demonstrates an outstanding word economy. As a wordy person, word economy always impresses me.
This poem could easily serve as a message to my WW as well.
When You Are Old and Gray
When you are old and gray and full of sleep, And nodding by the fire, take down this book, And slowly read, and dream of the soft look Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;
How many loved your moments of glad grace, And loved your beauty with love false or true, But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you, And loved the sorrows of your changing face;
And bending down beside the glowing bars, Murmur, a little sadly, how Love fled And paced upon the mountains overhead And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
Wow...a S&G fan as well! Good lyrics...pertain more to my H's persona...opposites attract so as you may guess I am an open book, emotional and touchy feely...hard to avoid pain when you are built that way. I have a good handle on controlling these characteristics publicly but the real me gets squashed trying to avoid the pain...I need to learn to embrace it and grow from it...I should be a giant by now!
The place has gone quiet again so time for either a poem or song lyrics.
How about Neil Young?
My life is changing in so many ways I don't know who to trust anymore Theres a shadow running thru my days Like a beggar going from door to door.
I was thinking that maybe I'd get a maid Find a place nearby for her to stay. Just someone to keep my house clean, Fix my meals and go away.
A maid. a man needs a maid. A maid.
It's hard to make that change When life and love turns strange. And old.
To give a love, you gotta live a love. To live a love, you gotta be part of When will I see you again?
A while ago somewhere I don't know when I was watching a movie with a friend. I fell in love with the actress. She was playing a part that I could understand.
Look outside: its morning This is a day you'll remember Hurry, get up and go There are those who believe in you Don't give up
Once in every life There comes a time We walk out all alone And into the light The moment won’t last but then, We remember it again When we close our eyes.
Like stars across the sky And in order to shine You will have to win We were born to shine All of us here because we believe
Look ahead and never turn your back On the caress of your dreams, Your hopes and then, Turn towards the day that will be There is a finish line there.
Like stars across the sky And in order to shine You will have to win Like stars across the sky
Don't give up Someone is with you
Like stars across the sky We were born to shine And in order to shine You will have to win And then, you will win!
From the original version BECAUSE WE BELIEVE Andrea Bocelli / Amy Foster Gillies / David Foster
Guarda fuori e’gia’mattina Questo e’un giorno che ricorderai Alzati in fretta e vai C’è chi crede in te Non ti arrendere
Once in every life There comes a time We walk out all alone And into the light The moment won’t last but then, We remember it again When we close our eyes.
Like stars across the sky E per avvincere Tu dovrai vincere We were born to shine All of us here because we believe
Guarda avanti e non voltarti mai Accarezza con i sogni tuoi Le tue speranze e poi Verso il giorno che verrà C’è un traguardo là
Like stars across the sky E per avvincere Tu dovrai vincere Like stars across the sky
Non arrenderti Qualcuno è con te
Like stars across the sky We were born to shine E per avvincere Dovrai vincere E allora vincerai
Thanks for inquiring...kids doing well except nightmares...getting them into family counseling next week...I am almost good as new...starting back to running tomorrow so I'll let you know how that goes...discomfort now not really pain.
How bout you superman? Maybe the radiation is like a superhero antidote...maybe you will gain some exta powers...I wouldn't go flying off of any porches yet though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I called my best friend earlier tongiht and shared with him how tired I am of trying to fly off a porch and landing on my head.
His concern was immediate: you're not giving up on becoming Superman are you? He knows of my quest.
No, I assured him but I have a new idea. Perhaps the porches are just not high enough. Maybe I have isolated a problem that heretofore didn't comprehend.
So, best friend, here is my new idea. I plan to go to the mountains north of here, find a high ridge with say, a minimum 2,000 ft. drop. I think that will do it.
He didn't think it was such a great idea. He advised me to stick with porches. He usually gives good advice so I will listen to him.
Still, I cannot help but wonder at the possibilities....
Todd, I told you before, try the roof first and see how that works out.
I did laugh about your wish for x-ray vision. Someone (can't remember who) had all sorts of lofty ideas why you'd want x-ray vision and you want it for "shallow" reasons.
I did laugh about your wish for x-ray vision. Someone (can't remember who) had all sorts of lofty ideas why you'd want x-ray vision and you want it for "shallow" reasons.
Very funny.
Shallow is a double entendre. I think that is something like a metaphor but can't be certain.
A kiss curl is one of those curls shaped like a comma that appears on the forehead of very nerdy men. I believe it is an American expression.
LOL, have I heard of the Beatles. Not a favourite of Rob's. He always liked the Stones better (he likes bad boys who play the blues - much more his thing).
I was 10 when I first heard of the Beatles. I share Paul McCartney's birthday 18 June. Boy, is he getting petty with his divorce. Mind you, he never should have married her.
Quel horreur!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I prepare it from scratch of course.
Are we talking the same thing here? A white sauce made with lots of cheese mixed in with cooked elbow macaroni, topped with breadcrumbs and baked in the oven.
Are we talking the same thing here? A white sauce made with lots of cheese mixed in with cooked elbow macaroni, topped with breadcrumbs and baked in the oven.
I only know how to eat it, not cook it. Have no idea.
I'm back, having just eaten my macaroni cheese. Well, does it sound like what you eat. You don't need to know how to cook it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Just been talking to DD on the phone. She's in Versailles now. (that's France BTW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) Her big news was that her b/f has just been offered a MUCH better job back at where they used to work. He starts the Monday after they get back in November.
I also asked her is she was still happy with him. She said very, very, very happy.
We will leave for the airport shortly to go back to Saudi sans WW. The day before yesterday when DD1 talked to WW on the phone she was really upset. It was so bad that we almost had a knee jerk reaction of cutting WW's Mexico vacation short. I thought about it all day yesterday and did speak to WW again and we agreed that we needed to be apart for a while. I told her again that I was extremely angry about her England comment at the airport and that if I had to make a decision right now that it would be divorce. I also said that I knew I was angry and wanted to let things calm down before deciding what I wanted to do. These were probably not good things to say but it was the truth and I don't really care at this point. At least she knows how I feel. If she is in contact with OM again, she deserves him.
Yesterday I was really down but I think I just need to get back home. I am really tired of this vacation. 30 days is way too long. I want to get back to reality.
Ok Eminem (back to reality), you make me laugh so hard my ribs hurt.
I personally would be extremely angry about the public links regardless of the inappropriateness of my behavior if I was WS. I can see both sides since WS didn't think about the effect of her actions or care enough about the destruction so in away it is merely the consequences of what she has sown and it is helpful to many others to see how a happy family with beautiful children and two good looking spouses can be damaged by a silly pool boy. It sounds like fiction but seeing the links brings it to life. Often people look from the outside at others lives and think it is all roses and that some people are untouchable. Having the links proves otherwise. Unfortunately I don't see a WS thinking like this...if G really knows you it won't surprise her to find the links since she busted you scanning the cards...
I'd have to meet you for round 2 of the ultimate fight match over removing them though...just me personally...I'd probably be ok with it well into recovery to help others but when it's fresh I'd feel like it added to the stress factors. JMHO
Best of luck with DDs on your marathon of flights...my kids would be busting at the seams after all that flight time...you are in my prayers. Be thinking of you and lift a glass of wine for you tonight in support of your adventure.
I hope you feel relaxed and comfortable when you get home. I'm sure you will at least sleep better back in familiar surroundings. Unlike you I would have continued to vacation and avoid reality if I had the choice...I enjoy escape! Reality is sometimes too ugly/hard to face in large and prolonged doses...I enjoy the antidote...that's why I love reading. Calgon just doesn't get it for me.
Oh, so now my ideas are no good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> You just made it into the lemons...and to think I was entertaining the idea of passionfruit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
What is your preferred mechanism of bashing? Verbal, emotional, physical??? A healthy combo of all? Shall I consult Todd on clamps or would you preferr to be bashed with bad poetry?
LOL...I think Todd would enjoy it as well...he would just elevate the abuse to an abstract level well past my capability or compare you to Superman and bash all your attempts at superpowers. I may need to take a boot to your bike in the LR...I bet the chrome would be screaming to have a dirty boot graze it...hhhhhmmmmmm or maybe get some dirty/greasy fingerprints on it...get near it with a sharpie marker or some hair spray to make it nice and sticky??? Are you scared now?
here is my new idea. I plan to go to the mountains north of here, find a high ridge with say, a minimum 2,000 ft. drop. I think that will do it.
Yeah, Todd...that would do it, alright!
Quote
Boy, is he getting petty with his divorce. Mind you, he never should have married her.
Hi, Kiwi...you mean he didn't 'pass it' by you!....no wonder!
Quote
A kiss curl is one of those curls shaped like a comma that appears on the forehead of very nerdy men.
You got, Kiwi.....NEEERRDY!....Hope Todd won't take offence us referring to his superhero as a 'nerdy'!
Quote
Does anyone know why the supplied argument is not a valid stream source?
Not sure I understand what you are asking here, Pio...
Quote
Okay I have about 30 hours of airplane riding to do
...how come?...going around the world a couple of times first? ....geesh.....you'll need at least another 30 days just to recover from the FLIGHT!
Quote
Shall I consult Todd on clamps or would you preferr to be bashed with bad poetry?
Quote
I would recommend getting ToddAC in on the bashing. I think it would be good for him.
2much and Pio, I think Todd is too busy figuring out how to fly these days.....would he still feel like Superman if he flew out of a plane with a parachute?
As you can see....I have some 'time' on my hands.....and have nothing better to do than trying to put my .02 anywhere I can!
You are doing right, you are not making any decision now that you are angry..
I want to ask you something.. how do you know that you are still in love of G? Before D day which were you reasons to be inlove with her? Obviously those reasons had changed.. but how much...?
I understand that you are still reviewing G stuffs, (I mean phone calls, mails, etc) in order to discover if she is still in contact with OM...
I would recommend getting ToddAC in on the bashing. I think it would be good for him.
I don't know. I have never been on a vacation longer than one week. I cannot imagine thirty days. I can see the need to get back to reality. Hopefully, your desk will be covered with problems so it will occupy your mind for a while. An idle mind being the devil's playground and all that...
Now to a serious subject. Although I talk more about flying, the bulk of my time is spent developing my x-ray vision. I figured that with the time I spent on the microwave turntable, the power should be there. In fact, I had a partial success. I got slapped so that is progress, right? But I cannot talk about it. I will email the experience to Pio.
As for flying, I took Jen's advice and went up to the roof and jumped off. Doctors say my head should quit hurting in a couple of months. Why can't I be like a cat and land on my feet?
Todd, I imagined you up on the roof a la Leonardo on the prow of the Titanic (is that the cheesiest scene in a movie, EVER?) cape flying behind you, arm stretched out in front of you. Sorry you landed on your head instead. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Pio, how about being a kiwifruit? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It takes us 24 hours to fly to Europe. That's what happens when you live at the bottom of the world.
Todd, I imagined you up on the roof a la Leonardo on the prow of the Titanic (is that the cheesiest scene in a movie, EVER?)
I have never seen Titantic. I will not willingly watch a movie longer than 120 minutes. Too many ants in my pants and I cannot sit still longer than that.
Long movies (excuse me, films) are a sign of the times. Directors are so full of themselves.
As for landing on my head, I have a fix. I have the goal of landing on my feet instead. So, for one week, I am going to eat nothing but cat food.
After only one day, I must say that I would hate to be a cat. Folks if you have cats, feed them real food like birds, mice and fish. This Kibbles and Bits is for the the birds.
DS3 had told me the other day that WW wanted me to call her. I finally did tonight.
It was a mistake.
It started in a cordial fashion. All of a sudden, she started screaming about my exposing to the world. The she told me the following:
That she hoped I was happy with what I had done to the family. That she did nothing wrong and that God would judge me one day for what I did. Further, she repeated that I had abandoned her at a time when she needed help and that she now understood what kind of man I am.
My simple retort was the following: you talk about the judgment of God? Have you read the Ten Commandments lately? Do you think that maybe the condiiton of our family has more to do with the fact that you banged OM for four years instead of my exposing you?
She went crazy, which was a very short journey.
She denied having an affair. That is her latest tactic. What she doesn't know is that I overheard a conversation with her best friend in which she described OM as "livid" that she had admitted her affair to me and that he would deny it from now on and told her to do the same. She obviously listens to OM very well.
I have videotape, audio tape, photos, cell logs, tracking logs and every kind and bit of information one can imagine. She knows how I am. I am analytical and methodical. It is amazing what she has forgotten or misplaced for the sake of her affair. It will come home to roost soon.
She lost DS1 as a son because of her lies. DS2, who was supportive of his Mom despite what she had done, was repeled because of her continued lies. She stands to loose DS3 because of her lies and denial. Then, and only then, will she hit bottom and have an opportunity to crawl back up into the world of reality.
It ended with my calling her la puta five times and hanging up the phone. Literal translation from Spanish to Englsih. la puta means b!tch, but so much more. Those who speak Spanish understand the gravity of my comment. Sorry, it's what I believe about her.
The divorce coffin already had nine nails in it, patiently awaiting the tenth nail. Tomorrow, I will call her health insurance company and confirm that I can get COBRA coverage under her policy. If so, I will file for divorce ASAP. Thus, the tenth nail.
I have two malignancies. Tomorrow I will take the initial steps to cut one of them away.
Oh, Todd, that is just the way the waywards are. I got where I didn't want to talk to WH, as it always ended up poorly. They spout all kinds of nonsense, and it gets old fast.
My WH is making more noises about coming home, now that we are almost divorced, and I don't want him anymore. Great timing.
I'm sorry that the conversation with your WW turned out that way.
It's so hard to understand that she can repeat that nothing happened between her and OM.
Althought you are justify to call her la puta, I don't see that will take you anywhere, maybe that's what you want, not to discuss anything further but I get the impression that you two have not yet said everything there is to say.
It seems Pitman* whom I have never read, has a harder approach to infidelity. I like the MB because it asumes that we all make mistakes, althought the affair is solely responsability of the WS or WW.
WW like yours or like G seem to have some fragility or vulnerability that make them more vulnerable to have an affair, in their weakness may also be their charm...
I like the Christian vision that we are forgiven or saved* not because or merits or qualities but because of the Grace.
Anyway, I hope you aren't having a too rough night to night. Time to get out that Superman outfit.
Sorry Todd...sounds like the fog has overcome her completely. She needs major help...I know despite your anger you still care about her. I'm sure the whole exposure thing kills her to have to face what she has done...it is amazing to me, although it happens consistently like clockwork with the WS's that they can brainwash themselves into believing the bull that they spew...as if you abandoned her in her time of need.
I think you may be right to turn cold, calculated and take the necessary steps to extinguish your malignency...I don't think she will respond to anything less. The sad part is that you probably will be emotionally done with her by the time she realizes what she is losing. I know it will take some super powers to get you thru this adventure.
The COBRA coverage is usually extremely expensive and limited to a defined time frame...could you be blatant and tell her you would love nothing more than to divorce her but you wouldn't give her the pleasure and let her know that the only thing you want from her is insurance coverage???? That might be a LB...hhhhmmmmm, sounds like just what the MD ordered to me...but who am I to give advice...I'm not the covergirl for Dr. Laura's the Proper care and and handling of husbands...
It seems Pitman* whom I have never read, has a harder approach to infidelity. I like the MB because it asumes that we all make mistakes, althought the affair is solely responsability of the WS or WW.
Yes, we all make mistakes, but as Pittman says, "It is true that if an affair is blatant enough and if all ****** breaks loose, the crisis of infidelity can shake up the most petrified marriage, Of course, any crisis can serve the same detonation function, and burning the house down might be a safer, cheaper, and more readily forgivable attention-getter."
And also: "Being in love does not protect people from lust. Screwing around on your loved one is not a very loving thing to do, and it may be downright hostile. Every marriage is a thick stew of emotions ranging from lust to disgust, desperate love to homicidal rage. It would be idiotic to reduce such a wonderfully rich emotional diet to a question ("love me or love me not?") so simplistic that it is best asked of the petals of daisies. Nonetheless, people do ask themselves such questions, and they answer them.
Falling out of love is no reason to betray your mate. If people are experiencing a deficiency in their ability to love their partner, it is not clear how something so hateful as betraying him or her would restore it."
And finally: "One trick for avoiding personal blame and responsibility is to blame the marriage itself (too early, too late, too soon after some event) or some unchangeable characteristic of the partner (too old, too tall, too ethnic, too smart, too experienced, too inexperienced). This is both a cop-out and a dead end.
One marriage partner can make the other miserable, but can't make the other unfaithful. (The cuckold is usually not even there when the affair is taking place.) Civilization and marriage require that people behave appropriately however they feel, and that they take full responsibility for their actions. "My wife drove me to it with her nagging"; "I can't help what I do because of what my father did to me"; "She came on to me and her skirt was very short"; "I must be a sex addict"; et cetera. Baloney! If people really can't control their sexual behavior, they should not be permitted to run around loose.
There is no point in holding the cuckold responsible for the infidel's sexual behavior unless the cuckold has total control over the sexual equipment that has run off the road. Only the driver is responsible."
Pittman just happens to live and practice in my city. He and I are on the same wavelength. While I appreciate the fact that Drs. Harley are pro-marriage, I do not like their approach and never have. Yes, there are problems in marriages, pre-affair. Problem is, there are problems in every marriage and not every marriage, thank God, experience infidelity.
As I said, I am nothing if not analytical and methodical. I write down everything. I keep notes. I could build a huge website in honor of her infidelity.
During conversaiton number six is when she told me not to worry about OM, that she has found someone new to "love her".
She has gone off the deep end. Exposure was a big step. Her Father, who is a most severe man, has disowned her. For those not familiar with Latin culture, WW will not be allowed to attend her Father's funeral, lest she cast shame on his memory.
She dug her hole; she can wallow in it.
Will somebody please get some kryptonite, carve some bullets our it and shoot me?
What is Pittman's full name and title of book you are quoting from. It is time for you to dig down deep for some superstuff...dust off your cape and get your plan ready...Orchid always says your heart and mind need to be in sync in order to execute your plan...are you ready?
What lyrics are you thinking of???
Don't despair, you are way bigger than any of this...I'm sure it doesn't feel like it at times but you really are...if you can fight the real deal on your own this should be managable as well...different kinda pain but still managable...what would superman do in this sitch?
I understand the cultural implications more than you know...my H married me knowing he was being disowned by the very act of our marriage...that is some of the reason I hold onto trying everything possible to make our M work...I am now his only family...makes it even more crazy that he would risk loosing the one constant, faithful, comfort in his life...irony is that is what he hates the most about me now...my stability, responsibility, unconditional love...he is now interested in wild spontanaity, wrecklessness, youth...has seriously risked health in some of his antics...I just don't get it either.
Sounds like your WS has entered the land of lunacy based on your description...if nothing else she should seek IC before she seriously takes the plunge...if she didn't care about you why would she be calling repeatedly...is she a vengeful type personality or is it her Latino hot temper? I'm sure after 36 years of marriage she knows every button of yours to push...
Why, he would fly to his Fortress of Solitude and think things through. I am sorta in a solitude place.
My WW is in complete denial. I asked her again, how could she go hop in bed with OM with me literally lying in bed, with her thinking I am dying?
Guess what she said? Todd, you don't have a brain tumor. You are making it up just like you made up my affair.
That is how crazy and luny the woman has become.
Pio and I talked about this possibility many times. Since both our wives are Latin, they were raised in similarly religious and cultually conservative backgrounds, hence when the affair came to light, they were tasked with juxtaposing their conservative background against what they had done.
Hence, the reason why my WW told me that "God knows what I have done". She used a mirror to deflect the light from her to me. A defense mechanism as it were.
Translated: she is cracking up. I truly believe she could flip out and go crazy at this point.
Know what WW lacks at this point?
Empathy.
My WW used to be the most emphathetic person in the world. So here we talked tonight for the first time since March and guess how many times she asked about my health?
Zero.
The same number of times she had asked before I moved out. Don't misunderstand me: I don't want sympathy. I am way past the need for that. I would like support from the woman to whom I gave thirty six years of my life to and share three wonderful sons with. But it is not there. Everything in her world is a prism that lets in good light and reflects any bad light towards me or some other fool.
I have been through he!! to be honest. She has no idea. I will never share it with her. Fortunately, I am a very strong person. I have not told my sons many things I have been told. I keep them to myself.
Are my heart and head aligned? Not right now. Right now, my head is as hot as it can get and my heart - my heart is stuck in my throat.
BK, I'll have to check out both books...I've read tons but not those two. I am hanging in there. Had MC #1 this week...H running hot/cold since but did attend and was pretty honest with MC. I'm trying to be patient and not too enthusiastic and see what H takes the initiative with...very hard for me since I am an overall go getter and it kills me to wait for someone to take the lead...especially when the trust factor is at ground zero. Next appt in 2 weeks due to scheduling issues. I have nothing but time at this point so I'm willing to throw it all out there if he is willing to work as a team...waiting to see evidence of teamwork!
2much - sucks but the BS really does seem to take the lead in recovery at least at the beginning.
Wanna try a contest to see who has read the most infidelity books - damn if that wasn't true it might even be funny. I swore I was not going to read any more books but you know..... I feel like I am an amazon gold customer. Infidelity books and relationship books. I swear if they don't stack at least 18" high...
Todd - how are you feeling? Does superman get fearful?
I have said this before (and I will most likely say this again one day): Probably the worst thing that can happen when dealing with the trauma of infidelity is reaching a state of inaction where both parties accept the pain level without resolving the issues. Sort of an emotional plateau.
In many cases this is what people think is “reconciliation”. It’s not. At best it can be a period of time to gather resources and strength but at worst it’s just a time-bomb waiting to go off.
That’s why I am going to congratulate you on your last confrontation with WW. Although it didn’t get you closer to her then it did get you closer to your final decision. Whether I wish you reconcile with your WW or not is not relevant. What you truly want is all that matters.
Honestly – although this site is called Marriage Builders I think this forum is more about personal growth. That growth can lead to reconciliation but infidelity can also lead to divorce. At the end of the day I just hope that this forum helps its members to accept the final outcome.
Just remember Todd that your WW is not your Kryptonite. I have a feeling you tend to be your own Kryptonite.
Todd, you say your W had forgotten how analytical & methodical you are. My ex had counted on me to be myself which is not methodical or analytical. This allowed him the ability to lie about his relationship & assume I believed him when he said he wasn't involved with another. This after 20 years. ex felt perfectly ok with his infidelity because in his mind the marriage was over years previous. Re-written history & news to me.
In the end it didn't matter. Though I live in a no fault state my attorney had witten things in such a way that presummed proof of an affair or at circumstancial evidence of one. His attorney either didn't catch it or had no way to ask for changes before things were presented to the judge. You should be in a good position with the evidence you have.
Sick that WS have the ability to twist a bend & then believe their lies. What's worse is the fact that after so many years it all ends in a fight about money.
I haven't been on this board until recently so I don't know the history of your physical troubles but I'm sorry to hear you have two malignancies. I wish you well with that. Are your sons available to help you?
BK, don't you mean 18 ft high??? Do books on tape count? How bout research articles? If I enrolled in a study would I get more points?
When you said BS usually take the lead in the beginning of MC were you referring to the tone/direction or amount of work? I wasn't sure if you were empathizing with me for having to wait or if you were inferring that my WS wasn't doing his part yet? Either way I'd be interested in your input. I'm going bonkers cuz I have told him repeatedly what I need from him and he is giving me some of it but I have zero faith and when he gave me his cell password I could care less since I feel like he either got a new phone or is using another means to comm with OWs...how do you go from 1500 TMs per month to 5 a day only to your wife and have no incoming TMs???? Did he put out a bulletin to not use his cell or is it diverting to a different #? Can all other calls/TM be blocked from the billing? If he has cut off all contact that would be great but I just don't see it...still secretive about lots of other stuff...but spending tons more at home time and making an effort to spend time together although very akward since we have nothing in common any more...
Used to have sharp mind and attention to detail for anything and everything...since all the infidelity stuff he is like Edith Bunker...I told him it was because he was having to juggle people, stories, lies, energies to try and keep everyone happy and he totally agreed.
He made a comment to me about how I don't know how hard it was for him to cut contact with all OWs...he looked extremely sad and was dead serious...I told him calmly that I couldn't feel sorry for him since I am his wife...I agreed it was probably very hard but couldn't really empathize since the whole thing was still very painful to me...he got angry although he said he understood...
What the heck am I supposed to do in those situations...I can objectively feel bad but I personally feel like those are the consequences of his actions...what'd ya think?
One thing I remember so clearly is ex looking at me with such a blank expression on his face. No remorse, no understanding of the devistation he caused, no sense of responsibility, no love , no empathy. on & on.
Made me want to take a giant board with nails in it & wack him with it.
Todd, LOL on WW as LL...I do agree that with her statements she sounds like a mental breakdown is almost guaranteed. Did she fabricate stories pre-A? Does she have any medical history of depresssion or bi-polar?
I am sorry for your pain. You know full well what you being your own Kryptonite means...why so humble? I think the radiation treatments recharged you and now you are ready to move on to something better.
No one asks for cancer or infidelity...you were doubly challenged...thank goodness for treatment plans and advanced technology...you have exhausted your options for your physical malignency now you need to work the plan for your psycho-social malignency...can't let them team up on you.
You are wise and have all the ammo you need...everything in life is about timing and opportunity...when the time is right seize the opportunity. You have plenty of support here no matter what direction you choose. Has your wife ever had IC or did you ever try IC/MC?
Todd, LOL on WW as LL...I do agree that with her statements she sounds like a mental breakdown is almost guaranteed. Did she fabricate stories pre-A? Does she have any medical history of depresssion or bi-polar?
Probably the first symptom I noticed during her affair was the fact that she lied about everything. She lied to her friends when a lie was not needed. I guess it was part of the lie-laden fantasy world in which she lived and she got to the point where she couldn't distinguish between what is real and what is imagined.
Quote
You know full well what you being your own Kryptonite means...why so humble?
Humility has nothing to do with it. While I don't know what Bigger meant by his comment, you can be reasonably certain it wasn't a compliment nor a light-hearted comment. When I first arrived on the scene after DD, everyone coddled me and gave me cyberhugs; not Bigger. He grabbed the nearest 2x4 and whacked me upside the head. It did me a world of good and we became instant friends. Later, he introduced me to Pio and our friendship was sorely tested.
Quote
No one asks for cancer or infidelity...you were doubly challenged...thank goodness for treatment plans and advanced technology...you have exhausted your options for your physical malignency now you need to work the plan for your psycho-social malignency...can't let them team up on you.
Interesting thing about a brain tumor. The future one faces in binary: either 0 or 1. Infidelity creates a vast wasteland of decision trees and emotional trauma. That is the reason why I have always maintained that my WW's infidelity made dealing with the tumor easier. As crazy as it must sound, it is true.
Quote
Has your wife ever had IC or did you ever try IC/MC?
No, she refused to go to IC or MC. She labels therapists as "crazy" themselves. She thinks everyone here at MB is crazy and the same for all the other infidelity websites.
There appear to only be three people who are not crazy. Her best friend, second best friend and OM. Maybe OM2, but I don't know that. Both friends desserted their husbands and kids to go "find themselves" and "get happy"; both are alcoholics; both live lonely and quiet lives of desparation and deal with the guilt of kids who don't feel the love for a Mother as they should. These are my WW's role models. They were both enablers of her affair. They have assured her over and over that her affair was justified. As for OM, well, he is her soulmate so naturally, he is sane. Of course, he tried to commit suicide a few years ago. My gift to him will be an instructional video and some stiff rope.
I took myself to lunch and am sitting here in this wireless cafe LOL with people thinking that I am crazy!!!! I love your gift idea...perhaps you should market a webshop of dark gifts for dark occassions!!! I am still LOL...maybe just slap happy but I sure needed that so thank you.
I understand your philosophy about coping with cancer after infidelity. If it is any comfort my H would volunteer lies for no apparent reason...I wasn't even asking questions...he'd just throw some fiction out there every now and again...says it was guilt induced...not sure if it is still happening as I try not to pay much attention to words and focus more on actions.
So Bigger is a tough love advocate...always good to have a friend like that who will keep you grounded and give you a good boot every now and again...still think he meant the Kryptonite as a compliment and will think so till proven otherwise...I'm stubborn and love to be right...one of my few character flaws <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
So how are you keeping yourself occuppied and stable today?
I took myself to lunch and am sitting here in this wireless cafe LOL with people thinking that I am crazy!!!! I love your gift idea...perhaps you should market a webshop of dark gifts for dark occassions!!! I am still LOL...maybe just slap happy but I sure needed that so thank you.
I thought first of a Smith and Wesson .357 magnum. Then I figured: nah, too quick. I thought of everything under the sun: poison - could call 911 and get his fat stomach pumped; persuade him to sky dive and I pack the chute (that idea got an honorable mention); and teaching him how and when to lie horizontal on a railroad track. In the end, hanging was the obvious choice: once you kick the chair away, no turning back. Well, unless someone happens to walk in and cut the rope in time. I will be guarding the door.
Quote
I try not to pay much attention to words and focus more on actions.
This became my motto shortly after DD. But I have trouble sticking to it. Like last night when she said that DS's and I do not have to worry about OM; there is a new OM in the picture. So, let me be sure here and count with my fingers: he is OM3.
Delightful isn't she?
So, what is her reward? I am buying her dinner tonight. DS3 has verbally pounded me for two weeks to go to dinner with WW. It is the only way I can get him off my back. WW did call back late last night and apologied and then said the unpardonable:
I want to get back together.
It proves the point that both Pittman and Shirley Glass make: the WS always returns to the BS. Uncanny how they know, isn't it?
Quote
So Bigger is a tough love advocate...always good to have a friend like that who will keep you grounded and give you a good boot every now and again...
Tough, yes. Tough love? Not so sure. I can tell you this: when he introduced me to Pio, it had nothing to do with love. Obviously, I had wronged the Bigger in some way and he introduced me to Pio for retribution.
Quote
So how are you keeping yourself occuppied and stable today?
DS1 picked me up and we had lunch. Mexican again. Then I got a much needed haircut. Then to the ATM to get money. Exciting, huh?
I love how you burried the land mine amongst all the other responses...WOW, WOW, WOW...were you expecting that? I am soooooo interested to hear how dinner goes. I hope for your sake WS is cordial, kind and considerate of you...you really are a good man...you are taking a risk and footing the bill; quite noble of you!
Where is Pio to throw his .02 in...probably sleeping off the jetlag by now. I don't envy him all the flying and trying to keep the DD's happy...that my friend is a challenge of it's own.
My advice to you...pick a restaurant with great ambience, excellent food and many escape routes:) That should cover all your bases...even if the company is lacking you can enjoy the rest and if you need to jump ship you have many options! Oh, look dashing too...if you need to wear your superman gear under your clothes feel free...whatever it takes!
Well I am back home but as a single parent. I am enjoying it so far. Regreted asked how I felt about WW. I don't know how I feel about her except for anger. I am definitely glad she is not here. I am not checking up on her and will not check up on her. It is time she grew up and started making adult decisions - whatever they are. If she wants OM, good riddance to her. I am going to not think about gemela for a while and see what good that does. I still can't get over that she is asking permission to see OM. She doesn't need my permission. She didn't the first time - why now? Anyway, I have not slept in 34 hours and I am very tired. I am going to bed.
Oh and if you are thinking of making a connection through Europe, do NOT fly British Airways. For all their threats they have zero enforcement of their strict new carry-on baggage policy but they make you miserable in the process.
I am thinking that Air Chance - I mean Air France is looking better.
Welcome home! Sorry you had a rough trip back but at least you can now relax. But...How can you sleep...what about Todd's news...no opinion, advice etc??? Have you already conversed via email? BTW, how are the girls?
I love how you burried the land mine amongst all the other responses...WOW, WOW, WOW...were you expecting that?
No, it came out of left field. What had happened during our eight different phone conversations was that whenever she lied like "I never had an affair" to screaming about the sting of expoure to saying the affair was "my fault", I would simply hang up. Finally, late last night she called and was a changed woman. Apologetic even.
Of course, I realize that I am digging a hole for myself. I may placate DS3 by meeting WW for dinner but trust me, I know where he gets his resolve and persusively powers; he will not rest after dinner tonight.
Quote
I am soooooo interested to hear how dinner goes. I hope for your sake WS is cordial, kind and considerate of you...you really are a good man...you are taking a risk and footing the bill; quite noble of you!
Quote
My advice to you...pick a restaurant with great ambience, excellent food and many escape routes:) That should cover all your bases...even if the company is lacking you can enjoy the rest and if you need to jump ship you have many options! Oh, look dashing too...if you need to wear your superman gear under your clothes feel free...whatever it takes!
There is no way to predict her bahavior during dinner. In part, it depends on the last thing he two friends tell her. We are having dinner at an English pub one block from my abode. If she starts screaming or lying, I will simply call the server over, hand her my credit card and announce that I am in a hurry. I will sign the voucher, walk out the door and walk "home". Dang, hate calling this place home.
I'll be thinking of you and keep'n an eye out to see how it went...
Don't you know that home is where the heart is...overused terminology but absolutely true. Some of my happiest times were in places I had never dreamed I would be...say like a one BR furnished apt for transients...were they my vision of "home" no but it's what I gained when I was there...a few more pieces of me.
Have some spirits for me...a chocolate martini would be really good, but I'd settle for a cognac.
I feel speachless in front of the amount of pain and betrayal you have endured.
At the same time, I want to tell you something and I don't know if it's so small compared to what you have experienced.
What do you think about not calling your WW la puta? It's a very strong word. I think no woman accepts that name for herself. Insults and anger make the recipent of them to close fast to all comunication and to search for justification to their actions.
Of course you are entitled to be told the truth and it's your right to leave the table if you feel you are hearing lies. Maybe it would help you if you explain to her that you need the truth to heal. That you can keep the comunication open as long as you know in the other side there is a real person...
After a clear statment from you about your position it would be up to her to talk or not with openess. Althought your anger is justify, hardly any one will speak openly to an angered, insulting person.
What do you think about not calling your WW la puta? It's a very strong word. I think no woman accepts that name for herself. Insults and anatger make the recipent to close fast to all comunication and to search for justification to their actions.
Hi larousse,
Thank you for your post.
I know the term la puta is severe. That's why I used it. I know she doesn't like it. I will reconsider using that word again. I only use it when totally frustrated and hurt.
wow, you answer fast as real Superman would do... Wait are you the real...
I wanted to add something about what Latinas want or need...
Of course I don't know what they want or need but I was thinking about some comments you and Pio have made of what a latina wants in a man...
You know if they wanted a Latino man the would have looked for one in the first place, don't you think?
I haven't dated Latin men in while for different reasons, in almost 12 years. I wouldn't like a no Latin man behaiving in a 'latin' way he thinks I need him to be or to behave or deal with me.
Stepping in the risky waters of stereotypes I would say I like of my boyfriend that we can talk about many things without his pride getting in the way. I like that he speaks to me and keeps speaking to me even when he doesn't like my answers. I like that he doesn't feel pressed to enact a psycodrama of love or anger or all the sentimental education of latin telenovelas. I want and need him to be him.
Oh, sorry Todd just thinking loud. I feel your situation is so complex there's little I can say. I mean no offense at all.
When you said BS usually take the lead in the beginning of MC were you referring to the tone/direction or amount of work? I wasn't sure if you were empathizing with me for having to wait or if you were inferring that my WS wasn't doing his part yet?
Huh 2Much - I was empathising - but BOTH are true. IE he isn't doing his part yet either.
Quote
He made a comment to me about how I don't know how hard it was for him to cut contact with all OWs...he looked extremely sad and was dead serious...I told him calmly that I couldn't feel sorry for him since I am his wife...I agreed it was probably very hard but couldn't really empathize since the whole thing was still very painful to me...he got angry although he said he understood...
What the heck am I supposed to do in those situations...I can objectively feel bad but I personally feel like those are the consequences of his actions...what'd ya think?
I do think 2Much that he's still so far off in La La land he doesn't yet see how ridiculous this is to you yet. Frankly, if his lips are moving, I'd assume at this point without hard evidence to the contrary that he is lying.
You won't cut through all this until he is done with withdrawal.
Well ToddAC, you have been busy. I just can't leave you alone for a day. Denies the tunor? I think we discussed that about 4 or 5 months ago. Your WW is really slow.
My best suggestion for you right now just from what I have read is to maintain NC. I am finding that, in my own case (and I have only been NC for about 3 days), is that contact during anger is ugly and I am sure that if I stay in contact during this time that D will be the outcome. WW and I have each to work through our issues and come to a conclusion. We will get together after a time and see if those conclusions coincide or not. Continued contact during this separation, for me, engenders compromise which is no longer acceptable at this point.
I just think you need to leave your WW in the oven a bit longer. She isn't quite done yet.
Oh, BTW, I really hate travel to and from the US any more. Bush is enacting rules and regulations to make it very unpleasant to travel. I think that is intentional. No Americans traveling = no potential problems. The USA is trying to be isolationist although very subtly. One rule I hate is that you cannot lock your suitcase. I took a long time to get through Bahrain immigration last night so my suitcases were already off the band when I got there. The place was very crowded such that you could barely walk. I left DDs in a corner with the trolleys and brought back the cases one-by-one. I found the first three with no problem but could not find the fourth. I was afraid it was lost. Finally after looking and relooking, I saw some things I recognized inside a large plastic bag. I looked closer and found that one of my suitcases must have come open like a jack-in-the-box vomiting its contents like an erupting Vesuvius and, somewhere along the way, somebody wrapped it up and taped it in its slightly open position. If I could have locked the suitcase, it would not have happened. Even so, my other suitcases - the Samsonites - survived just fine. It was only the Delsey that failed. Delsey is French in case you didn't know. Yet one more French failure. If anyone needs a Delsey suitcase, you can find one sitting on my curb next to the garbage can.
Sometimes I think that WW's remind me of a character that John Lovitz played on Saturday Night Live - the one who always ended everything saying "yeah, that's it - that's the ticket". Live the fantasy too long and it becomes the reality. The fantasy dies and reality has to be created.
ToddAC just made up that brain tumor. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket.
WW needs to find a way to explain the fact that she is living "alone", you are away hosing down French peoples' UPS packages. My fear is that fairly soon the GWTW dolls will start speaking to her. At that point, I would fear for my life.
Hey BK, tried to write back earlier but was soooooo angry I never sent my rant.
My Q to you is...how do I react when H provides a story that to me seems fabricated...lots of info makes no sense...story changes and evolves to meet his needs in situation...ends up with him being out until 0400...he texts me on and off during the night providing tiny pieces of info setting things up for the outcome. I could predict these stories and endings as I have seen multiple ones.
Big issue is H hates being questioned...duh and complains how I do it. This was his big c/o to MC...MC tells me to approach in a different way that is nonthreatening...ok, I always have...it is WS guilt and defenses that make him react like an a$$...so he rolls in at 0400 after I text him at 0315 asking if he is alive...he never responded back to my texts or calls from 0315 on and I never called him all night and only responded to the texts he sent me.
I would like to tell him not to even try to give me info since I'm not buying it but that doesnt seem like it would be acceptable as a recovery effort but personally I can't see recovery if he is continuing to lie...I have no way of knowing except my gut which has been pretty accurate through this whole nightmare...
I agree that you should tone down the rhetoric a bit. "La puta" is a very strong word. Personally I would recommend "la cabrona ramera". Far less insulting.
I am upset. I bought a Gillette M3P razor in the USA and have just opened it so I could shave. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to upload music to it. It didn't come with a CD and, so far, I haven't found the USB port. Any ideas?
WW and I were scheduled to meet for dinner at 6:30. At 6:45, she called to say she was lost. She was three blocks away and I gave her directions. I walked downstairs ten minutes later and she was waiting in front, sitting in her car. I opened the passenger side door and got into the car. My WW is a beautiful woman and she looked great. She is 52 and looks 35. She is a benefactor of that legendary Latin olive complexion. I have to admit that she stirred some of the same passions as when I first met her. I told her she looked great. She looked at me through her $300 sunglasses, smiled and thanked me. We were off to a great start.
We got to the restaurant which was nearly empty, odd for a Friday night. We sat at a table that offered as much privacy as possible and just looked and smiled at each other until the server came over. We each ordered a drink and I told the server we wanted to relax and enjoy our drinks and we would order later. I told WW that my goal in having dinner was for us to get caught up but for the experience to be a positive and enjoyable one. She agreed.
Quiet enjoyment lasted two minutes. Then she started in where she left off on the phone from the night before. Everything is about me. I exposed her affair. I moved out and left her stranded. She had to endure a tornado that removed the roof. You don’t abandon your spouse. When there are problems you stay and work them out. And I had no right to expose her affair. That represented marital problems and such problems such be limited to the couple. As is customary for everyone in her real family, she repeated herself five times.
Five is my limit as it happens. I told her that if she thought marital problems should be kept between the couple, then why did she bring OM into our marriage. She replied that she saw a minister on television who said that if a man doesn’t take care of his crops, another man will. She only had the affair because of problems in our marriage. I reminded her that whilst her affair was in full swing, most of the time I was lying in bed ill and not knowing what was wrong with me. She let me know that it was all my fault, just if I had changed doctors earlier, maybe the new doctor would have diagnosed the tumor and she may never have had her affair.
I also reminded her of the first trip I made to the ER when OM drove us. I reminded her that whilst I lay in an ER treatment room, she insisted on sitting with OM in the lobby. She said that she doesn’t cope with hospitals well and that she “felt sorry” for OM having to sit by himself. I reminded her that I had my first seizure then and my heart felt like it was going to pound out of my chest. That why couldn’t she understand that and stick by my side. I was apprehensive and not fully cognizant. Why couldn’t she let OM sit by himself and watch television in the comfortable lobby. I told her it was clear that after only two months of knowing OM, an attraction was already in place. So strong an attraction in fact that she could leave me to deal with the nurses and doctors alone. She said that I had always misunderstood her relationship with OM, that I was fine and she felt badly for him that he had to drive us to the hospital and was no going to let him sit by himself in the lobby.
Then she went back to repeating over and over how I had exposed her and embarrassed her. I told her that when a spouse has an affair, it sets into motion the Law of Unintended Consequences. One such consequence was exposure. A second was my moving out. At this point, she decided to change tactics. I misunderstood what she had said. She did not have an affair. OM is impotent don’t you know? We were just friends. I told her that there is a book by Dr. Shirley Glass, a pioneer in infidelity research, entitled “Not Just Friends”. She said that that woman is crazy too and probably wrote the book to cover her own problems. Dr. Glass’s husband did have a number of affairs, so score one for WW.
Next, things deteriorated. At one point, I told her that I had selected this particular restaurant because if things got and stayed ugly, I could walk home. She was unimpressed and continued to repeat the blame game over and over again, ad nauseam. I once again told her that if the conversation stayed with the topic of blaming ToddAC for her affair and every ill and war the world has ever known, I would pay the check and leave. She didn’t listen. I stood up, tracked down the server, paid my tab and walked out the door. Since WW’s back was to the door, she did not see me leave. I told her I was leaving but apparently she didn’t buy it.
I got back home fuming. I knew meeting for dinner was a mistake and I was kicking myself. My WW will never ever admit to the affair and stick to it. She will never let her hurt and sting from exposure go. Her affair will always be my fault. My health will always be my fault. Oh, I forgot, at one point, after I had asked her how she was, and given the fact that she didn’t throw the same question to me, I asked her if she wanted to know how I was doing. She said she assumed I was fine or she would have heard differently from the boys. I asked her did she know that I had five weeks of therapy. She said that DS3 told her. I asked her was she curious how the experience was or what the prognosis is. She replied no. In short, my WW continues to demonstrate a lack of empathy.
My ten minutes of solitude were broken by her phone call. She was livid that I had just walked out and not told her. I reminded her that I did tell her I was leaving and walking home. She said you don’t do that to a woman and leave her sitting alone in a restaurant. Again, she was lost. I gave her directions to the expressway and she headed home. Thus it all ended where it began last night, with WW lost. I think there is a metaphor hidden in there somewhere.
And BTW, larousse, I did not call WW la puta. A good life is a chain of small victories.
Just as I was finishing this post, the phone rang. It was WW. She told me she had a nice time last night at dinner. Can someone please help me understand how she and I had such different experiences from the same dinner?
I am telliny you that you need to maintain NC. Problems in marriage result in counseling, separation or divorce. All valid options. WW is the one who decided to let someone else plow with your heffer. That was never a valid option.
Everything you said is right but you have said it all before. Just stay away from her. Let nature take its course. You will never convince her she did anything wrong. Stop trying. Maybe one day she will decide that for herself.
I do agree that she is the first one who decided to involve someone else in the M (i.e. OM) I was hoping you were going to say that and it looks like you did.
BTW, I do agree with your WW on one point - we are all crazy here. She nailed that one.
For my part I am learning to be a single parent and I am enjoying it. I don't miss gemela in the least. I know it is not that simple. Someday we will have to decide something permanent for the girls. Today is just not going to be that day.
I'm stunned that your wife would actually say that she's not interested in your treatment and your prognosis. I can't believe that after being happily married for over 30 years and having 3 children together that she could be so cold and uncaring. I can't believe that she felt she belonged with her slimy OM in the frickin lobby, instead of by the side of her sick husband. I agree with Pio -- NC. You have to concentrate on yourself and getting better. I don't buy this "fog" excuse for this type of behavior. This is unconscionable. Period.
Pio -- how are your girls doing? Are they doing ok without their mom? What is your Amazon housekeeper like? Has she made a connection with the girls yet?
I wish I had some advice for both of you, but your wives and I come from different planets. I just shake my head thinking about both of them.
I hope you both find some peace and some healing away from both of them. Life can sure be unfair. I hope things get better.
The girls are okay and glad to be home. We put their backpacks together for their first day tomorrow. The biggest problem is that DD2 does not have as many key chains on her backpack as DD1. I explained that it is a collection and she adds as she goes to school. We worked it out.
The bad news is that DD2 DID get a rash! She always does that when we travel because she does not dry herself when she goes peepee very well. OMG! What will I do? WW is not here to tell me what to do about the rash!?!?!!
Amazon woman is kind but connection is not there yet. The girls are adorable and everyone falls in love with them easily. I guess they get that from their mom.
I will say one thing. As angry as I am at WW for letting things get to this, if she had shown up at the airport in Miami for London and told me that she knew we ahd agreed to separate but she wanted to come back and fight for her marriage, I would have said "okay - let's try". She didn't. I think long term separation is what is needed right now. Gemela needs to decide what she wants. I need to decide if I want her back. I just don't know right now. I need time.
Todd, wow! Horrible dinner & unbelievable phone conversation with your WW. There is no understanding from her, she's simply out there in the clouds.
Pio - you don't miss g, that's great.
I had the very unpleasant experience the other day of sharing a "moment" with ex & pisses me off still. I don't love him, don't want him back but it makes me mad that it was so easy to share a laugh. Brings tears to my eyes & that pisses me off even more.
Gemela really does sound like a clueless child. From what you say about her not being able to control spending on herself, she reminds me of Veruca Salt. Maybe you need to pack her off to spend some time with Willy Wonka..
Has she ever lived on her own and paid for her own living expenses? Was she poor growing up, or was she indulged and treated like a princess? She just seems to be lacking in some adult skills. And I really don't know how you help a person to get them.
I completely understand your need for NC, but I keep wondering if you two could email a lot and try to have a real dialogue, if you might get inside her head a bit and be able to form some kind of understanding. I just don't know... Maybe after some time with no interaction, you could try "talking" by email. That way, each thing you say is thought through and you can't say things in anger or irritation like you can on the phone or in person.
It's too bad that the children get caught in the middle. They need a strong, independent, goal-oriented woman as a role model. I wonder if Gemela has in it her to become that. Her obsession with material things is costing her the chance to be something real. She might actually hate her life of primping and shopping and she may have some inner desire to be more, but be afraid of failure and looking stupid. And if she feels like there are layers of her that you've never seen or discovered, she might have some serious resentment towards you over it.
But, I don't know enough about her to know if that could be true. I do know that it would get old and be scary as you get older, to feel like your entire value rests on how you look and what other people think of you. I actually feel really, really sorry for her.
Maybe I'm being overly idealistic, but I hope that you can find some depth to Gemela that you weren't even aware was there and help her to find the confidence to work on it.
How far off am I?
As far as the rash on your little girl, that's a rough one for dads. It's much easier for mothers with sons, because no thinks anything of mothers cleaning their little boys genital area. Do you have a trusted woman friend who you can call on to help? It shouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately it is.
Well I just got DD2 back from the emergency room. Fortunately they were able to get her into OR and applied a topical cream of something called Desitin(?). They say she should get better.
Okay I am joking. I can apply Desitin and I even knew where it was.
I think your description of gemela is pretty accurate. She was poor growing up and only had the necessities. She never lived on her own but that is not uncommon in Mexico. An unmarried woman living by herself in Mexico is not "proper". She was also always the subordinate twin. This is my biggest gripe with SIL - she really pushes gemela around in a non-physical way.
Depth - that seems to be my problem right now. I am just not sure how much is behind the makeup to really love. I never thought of her as shallow until the A and I still don't think she is shallow. Too trusting maybe. Vain definitely. Afraid of grey hair and wrinkles - absolutely.
There are many women I have been around prettier than gemela. I was never attracted to them because I truly loved gemela. She and OM stuck up my love bank and emptied it out.
I feel very peaceful that she is not here. Right now the A is a thousand miles away - well, actually it is more like 6 thousand miles away. And do you know what? She could be having another affair and I don't care. I am not jealous in the least. I feel like she is out of my life entirely. I know some day she will have to be back in it because of the girls. For now, I am getting some much needed rest.
Oh, I took all her bikini swimsuits and threw them in the trash today. She said she didn't like the way they fit or sagged. I don't care. I just dumped them. I may start on shoes next.
What we discussed is that WW should NOT deny the tunor. What she should have done is deny the A and blame your belief in the A on your tumor because it was affecting your thoughts and memories. She is stupid to deny the tumor.
OTOH, maybe you DON'T have a tumor. Now that I think of it, I have never seen the MRI <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I am back in the office and on email tomorrow. Girls are bathed and in pajamas and fed. Only thing left is milk. When we were going through the storage, I found an old referee shirt. I brought it back. I will use it every time DDs get into a fight. We have a couple of behavioral issues that I want to work on. I have a lot of free time now. I will use some of it for that.
DDs still think mom is coming back very soon. I will not tell them any differently. Once WW and I decide what the future holds, we will address it then. My sister told me that DD1 has an almost unnatural bond with WW. I know that WW was borderline abusive with her. Maybe that is part of it. I don't know. I do know it will be good for DD1 to be away from mom for a little while. She needs to learn that she will be okay if mom is not around all the time - the same as for me too. She should not cling to either one of us. Her behavior is not like most other children and has not been for many years. I do want to get her into counseling.
I was just checking something in SAA and I cannot find anywhere that Dr. Harley says it is okay to POJA the truth. Only historians can rewrite history and get away with it.
Are you just joking, or did you really toss her bikinis? As far as the shoes, please don't throw her stuff out. I don't mean to pick on you, only trying to help. But, you helped make her what she is. Maybe it was fun to buy her things and make her feel happy. But you spoiled her and allowed her to behave that way and be dependent on you and not responsible for herself. You said something once that stuck in my mind, something like you liked to dress her up. It sounds almost like you viewed her as a child, not an equal. Throwing away her things is treating her like a kid and it's not the right way to treat a kid either. If you want her to change, you're going to have to help her, not punish her.
Have you ever talked to Gemela and asked her why she feels that she needs all these things and try to get her to talk about her motivations, her childhood, her fears and most importantly, what she wants out of life? What does she want your girls to be like when they grow up? Does she want them to be a professional or a trophy wife?
I don't mean to be cruel, just trying to see if there's anything that can be done to fix this mess. Gemela is responsible for the affair, but you're both responsible for the dynamics of your marriage. And she may not have the maturity to do much more than to try to look pretty to be liked and wanted.
I have already done that. My question is considering how badly dinner went last night, why does WW want to have dinner again tonight? Maybe she thinks things went well becasue she got to castigate me for exposure and abandonment?
Sadly I don't have any nails left. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I think it's a great turn of events, althought it doesn't seem like that right now.
I'm writing a longer answer if you don't mind.
Hola Pio,
Glad you are back your home and coping well with DD's. Just to imagine a 30 hrs flight with two little girls gives me a headache. About your choice of words from puta to ramera... I think most girls now would need a dicctionary to understand the second one. It seems puta is a stronger insult than ramera as if doing 'it' for lust were worst than doing it for money... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I have already done that. My question is considering how badly dinner went last night, why does WW want to have dinner again tonight? Maybe she thinks things went well becasue she got to castigate me for exposure and abandonment?
Todd,
Is your wife the type who once she decides she wants something, she HAS to get it? For whatever reasons, she may have decided that she wants her marriage back. So, she may be putting her own spin on your interactions, trying to get what she wants.
You have to do what's best for you. She certainly isn't thinking about what's best for you. If being around her agitates you and upsets you, then you have to stay away from her. You need to explain to your boys what's going on and what effect it's having on you, so they lay off the pressure for you to meet with her.
It sounds to me like she is simply trying to POJA reality.
Yes I did toss the bikinis because she said she does not like them. I was joking about the shoes. I would never touch those. The bikinis I associate with her spending every afternoon at the pool with OM. They are a trigger for me so yes they are in the bin. I saved a couple that she likes and still wears.
Gemela and I both grew up without very much. She had a neglectful father and I had an abusive stepfather. I like to see gemela dress up because it makes her happy. Personally I don't care what she wears. I always thought she was as beautiful the moment she woke up in the morning as at her best dressed. She has an old dress she has always worn for painting and doing dirty work around the house. She is prettiest in that dress. All her other clothes are just a facade - they aren't her.
There may be more broken here than can be fixed.Yes I may be partly responsible for making her what she is. I did that with the best of intentions and the worst of results. Did it make her have an affair? No. She did it because she wanted to.
I was just joking about the ramera BTW. I don't recommend using either term on our WWs. What was the term that Juanillo 23 used in Conair? Maranita? I don't know what that one means so I definitely would not us it.
Do you have any idea of why she wants to get back together? Has she said why? Her actions are not those of someone trying to reconcile.
The eighth and final time I talked with WW telephonically Thursday night, she said she wanted us to get back together. At dinner the next day, she said she wanted to be on her own and that we can never get back together because I cannot forget her affair, which she didn't really have anyway, and that she cannot accept that I abandoned her and betrayed her through exposure.
She shared with me that best friend is doing everything to convince her to D me and second best friend is persuading her to R. My guess is that she talked to 2BF before calling the last time Thursday night and she talked to BF just before last night's dinner.
My bet is she will R if you are willing to accept that the A was your fault. She is negotiating - or trying to anyway - and you wan't cooperate. If the A was your fault, she has nothing to be guilty of. The infermities are pawns in the game. You offer tumor, she offers OM's impotence. She is trying to find a way that she can save face.
It is borderline insane BTW but that is how it looks to me.
BTW, WW told me that when she sold the house she held a garage sale. A little background on WW's garage sale prowess is in order. Many years ago, she decided that my stereo system was too obtrusive for 18th century decor. She sold my Marantz 2270 receiver for five dollars! Five dollars. She also sold a professional level handheld CB radio that my Mother gave me for two dollars. Garage sale people love my WW.
Remember the doll collection? She had one doll that was a large one, in fact, life sized. Everyone hated that doll because its eyes looked authentic. It reminded me of a Twilight Zone episode in which Telly Savalas mistreated his DD's doll. The doll talked and one day it said to Savalas: My name is talking Shiela....and I am going to kill you. Of course, later the doll scared Savalas and he fell down the stairs to his death.
WW paid $350.00 for that doll in 1990. It was supposed to be an "investment grade" doll. She sold it for $50.00. Less than 24 hours later, the new owner was found dead at the bottom of the stairs.
WW told me she sold all my books. My books were a source of joy for me. I had many first editions from noteworthy authors. She probably sold them for $0.50 each. She also sold my CD and DVD collection. She did not sell any of my guitars. She is still alive. As she put it, when you abandon your spouse and leave your stuff behind, that spouse has the right to sell everything.
I am a vindictive SOB. Mark my words here and now: I will sell every doll in her GWTW collection. Now, they should be good investments. I will take the money and replace my book collection as best I can. She has no idea the impact of her selling my books. I feel like a part of me has died.
DS3, a/k/a "the relentless one" just called. He is trying to get WW and I to go with him to view his home under construction. He wants me check the work quality. He wants WW there for obvious reasons. He even tried to plan dinner with us afterwards. I told him no. That dinner last night was more than enough for a while. He will not stop. I taught him well in that regard.
Pio, forgot to mention. Last night, WW told me that she had not been happy in our marriage for over twenty yesrs. She also has not loved me for over twenty years. She said in fact, she now understands that she didn't love me when she married me, that she felt obligated. And you said only historians could revise history.
professional level handheld CB radio that my Mother gave me for two dollars
Why did your mother make you pay her two dollars when she gave you the radio. Wasn't it supposed to be a gift?
Quote
Last night, WW told me that she had not been happy in our marriage for over twenty yesrs. She also has not loved me for over twenty years. She said in fact, she now understands that she didn't love me when she married me, that she felt obligated. And you said only historians could revise history.
All WW's say that. You know that already. I said only historians could rewrite history and get away with it. WW's rewrite history - they just can't get away with it.
Let her stew. Avoid contact. Leave her in the oven a while longer. Right now she is only half-baked.
I would suggest you to concentrate on the basic things you need to consider getting back to your marriage.
You could write a letter to her explaining what do you need from her...
- Stop all relationships or friendships with men, specially OM.
- To go to MC, maybe you would like to try the Harley's, Steve or Jenny*, because of their understanding of the affair dynamic.
- A trial separation with dates and outings with out presure for both parts but without any of you dating anyone else.
The letter could also explain to her that you could forgive her affair or affairs as long as you have the opportunity to heal from it. You could introduce the concept of radical honesty and asure her that you are ready to start an improved relationship with her as long as she has the intention to commit to the marriage and to understand the impact of her past acctions and to take responsability for them.
You don't have to take responsability or accept blame from exposing or leaving the house... But you can earn some points by showing empathy, maybe showing her to have empathy. You can say -I understand the distress exposure caused you. - I can see how you felt lonely when the tornado happen. Etc.
If you have the proves of her affair you could show them to her, so she has no doubt that you know what went on.
You don't have to fight with her or try to convince her of your point of view...
If she says she doesn't like therapist, you can tell, Yes, I know you don't like them but I ask you to consider it for my sake.
You can validate her feelings without agreeing with them. Then she doesn't have to fight to make her 'feelings' understood.
Many posts ago you said your WW had problems seeing you ill, maybe that's part of her lack of empathy? If she doesn't mention it she doesn't have to face the severity of it or the pain it caused you and she can pretend that you are the strong man she married to.
You can also tell her that if both of you would get together again you would expect her understanding and caring during your recovery process and that you need to be able to talk to her about your illness.
That kind of letter would be like a pre B letter in which you show her what do you need to reconsider the end of your marriage. You have a right to demand NC and honesty but also you can offer somethings in there to make it easier for her to consider your demands.
I sincerely hope that it's not too late for her and that she can give a turn soon.
You could also ask her how does she imagine you could both be together again. What's her propousal...
I have just finished reading Bill Bryson's book "The life and times of the Thunderbolt Kid" about growing up in Des Moines in the 50s. He writes very amusingly about [censored] and Jane. I grew up with them as well. He found them a totally alien family, in fact he was sure they were aliens. If that's from an American, can you imagine what it was like for a kid from NZ where TV hadn't yet arrived and it was her first look at Americans?
Have any of you heard of Bill Bryson?
BTW, that was very funny, Pio. As was the CB radio for two dollars, as was the rash.
Perhaps you should warn people who aren't aware of your sense of humour. Perhaps put "warning, joke ahead".
I have nothing to add to either yours or Todd's situations. I don't think I know enough about your wives' culture enough to comment.
I still have a [censored] and Jane book but I forget the title since it has been in storage so long. It reads pretty much like the original books and is illustrated in the same way and has a similar binding. In this book, [censored] and Jane are married and Jane does Amway and is a double diamnod jubilee. Oddly enough I think [censored] and Sally MAY be having an affair but I can't remember for sure. It was a present from my sister.
As far as humor goes, not many people read this thread anyway.
BTW, the black and white referee shirt was almost a good idea for settling arguments between the DDs but unfortunately I forgot to do one thing.
I don't know why it is but both girls always want to play the same Gameboy game at exactly the same time - regardless of which game it is. I am trying "jump Gameboy game" but DD1 always seems to get the tip due to her height advantage. Tomorrow I am going to start jumping drills with DD2 so she can build up her vertical leap.
LOL, the perils of modern life (and having 2 DD's who compete for the same toy - luckily, having a boy and a girl they weren't really interested in the same stuff).
When I had my DD, one of my g/f's came to visit me in the hospital and said "YOU would have one of each, wouldn't you."
I have just finished reading Bill Bryson's book "The life and times of the Thunderbolt Kid" about growing up in Des Moines in the 50s. He writes very amusingly about [censored] and Jane. I grew up with them as well. He found them a totally alien family, in fact he was sure they were aliens. If that's from an American, can you imagine what it was like for a kid from NZ where TV hadn't yet arrived and it was her first look at Americans?
Have any of you heard of Bill Bryson?
I've never heard of Des Moines let alone Bill Bryson.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. You obviously put a lot of time and thought into it and I appreciate it.
Quote
I would suggest you to concentrate on the basic things you need to consider getting back to your marriage.
I am not sure I want this marriage. It's kinda funny that during our conversaion last night, WW never asked me what I wanted. She seems to believe that the decision is hers and hers alone; she is wrong.
Quote
You could write a letter to her explaining what do you need from her...
She knows what I want: honesty, remorse and empathy. She cannot bring herself to any of these.
Quote
- Stop all relationships or friendships with men, specially OM.
As she told me last night, nobody can make her stop seeing OM. I told her the goal of exposure was to bring the affair to and end. She said it had no effect on her. Earlier, she had said that she had moved on from OM1 to OM3. Of course, she described the transition as from OM1 to OM2. She doesn't know that I know about OM2.
Quote
- To go to MC, maybe you would like to try the Harley's, Steve or Jenny*, because of their understanding of the affair dynamic.
Firstly, WW will never go to IC or MC. Remember, she thinks all therapists are crazy. Her BF has assured her that this is the case. Secondly, if we were going to IC/MC, candidly, it would not be with the Harleys. I don't like their approach especially the way they implicate the BS as the cause of the affair. If I go to anyone, it will be Dr.Frank Pittman. He is my kind of guy: minces no words and lays blame for affairs squarely on the shoulders of the WS.
Quote
- A trial separation with dates and outings with out presure for both parts but without any of you dating anyone else.
We have been separated since March 9. Last night was the first time I had seen her since then.
Quote
The letter could also explain to her that you could forgive her affair or affairs as long as you have the opportunity to heal from it. You could introduce the concept of radical honesty and asure her that you are ready to start an improved relationship with her as long as she has the intention to commit to the marriage and to understand the impact of her past acctions and to take responsability for them.
I have tried this approach, verbally, a number of times. Her response is to lie and argue.
Quote
You don't have to take responsability or accept blame from exposing or leaving the house... But you can earn some points by showing empathy, maybe showing her to have empathy. You can say -I understand the distress exposure caused you. - I can see how you felt lonely when the tornado happen. Etc.
I did say something like "nanny nanny boo boo, you got hit by a tornado". Okay now, just kidding. I told her this last night. She gets angrier when I say it. Have I mentioned that she has a temper? Have I mentioned she won't listen to reason?
Quote
If you have the proves of her affair you could show them to her, so she has no doubt that you know what went on.
I have told her of a couple of elements of proof. She confessed her affair. There is no question. The reason she backpeddles is because OM is angry with her for confessing to me. He is also more than a little afraid of me which proves his sanity. She will play this cat and mouse game for eternity.
Quote
You don't have to fight with her or try to convince her of your point of view...
If you had been a fly on the wall last night, you would have seen that she is the one who was arguing. I was enjoying my salad and bruschetta.
Quote
If she says she doesn't like therapist, you can tell, Yes, I know you don't like them but I ask you to consider it for my sake.
I have said this a number of times. Until her BF clears her for takeoff, she will never agree to IC/MC.
Quote
You can validate her feelings without agreeing with them. Then she doesn't have to fight to make her 'feelings' understood.
During confrontations with WW, I am normally very quiet. When she is finished and I try to speak my part of it, she constantly interrupts. Have I mentioned that she has a temper? It is a long standing trademark of her family that when they want to make a point they engage in two characeristic behaviors:
1. Screaming; and 2. Repeating themselves ad nauseam.
Quote
Many posts ago you said your WW had problems seeing you ill, maybe that's part of her lack of empathy? If she doesn't mention it she doesn't have to face the severity of it or the pain it caused you and she can pretend that you are the strong man she married to.
Are you my WW? You may have a point? So what to do with it?
Quote
You can also tell her that if both of you would get together again you would expect her understanding and caring during your recovery process and that you need to be able to talk to her about your illness.
I no longer have such a need with her. She believes that if one is diagnosed, they should not receive treatments or surgery because all the doctors are gunning for is money.
Quote
That kind of letter would be like a pre B letter in which you show her what do you need to reconsider the end of your marriage. You have a right to demand NC and honesty but also you can offer somethings in there to make it easier for her to consider your demands.
I have offered a peace lily; she bit my hand off.
Quote
I sincerely hope that it's not too late for her and that she can give a turn soon.
Have I mentioned that she is stubborn?
Quote
You could also ask her how does she imagine you could both be together again. What's her propousal...
I asked her this last night. Her answer was that she still needed to be on her own and "have fun". Agzin, that trademark phrase courtesy of her BF.
BTW, I forgot to mention something. Gemela signed a notarized letter giving me permission to travel alone with the kids to Saudi Arabia. I never needed it. I am not going to post it here but I discovered a very simple and obvious loophole in the airline travel policy for single parents traveling with children. There is no problem with a parent getting kids out of the USA as long as you understand the loophole. It is scary.
I finished Separate Lies. I don't see to many parallels between James and me except possibly the desire to protect WW. Other than that he is a wet noodle. Immediate exposure would have done wonders. I might see some parallels between gemela and Anne but Bill and pool boy have nothing in common other than being English. James obviously wanted to give Anne every chance to return to the M and, if she had, all would have been forgiven. Anne chose OM at every turn regardless of the circumstances or consequences.
It was not a depressing movie to me but it did not generate much optimism for me either.
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary, Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore, While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping, As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door. "'Tis some visitor," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door- Only this, and nothing more."
Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December, And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor. Eagerly I wished the morrow;- vainly I had sought to borrow From my books surcease of sorrow- sorrow for the lost Lenore- For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore- Nameless here for evermore.
Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling, By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore. "Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou," I said, "art sure no craven, Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the Nightly shore- Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!" Quoth the WW, "Nevermore."
Yes, WW knocked on my door out of the blue. Outside on her cell; stay tuned...... for news!
Okay ToddAC, your WW does not appear to want to R for the sake of R. On the other hand she appears desperate. I just wonder what is the source of this desperation? Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
Put your radar on full. Do NOT get into an argument. Keep your anger in check. Try to use your intellect to get to the root of your WW's sudden panic.
Okay I have triple checked my Gillette M3P razor and I cannot find a USB port. My guess is it must be bluetooth. I am desperate to upload MP3 music to it so I can listen while I shave. Maybe it is defective?
hoopsie[sic?] posted a reply to me on another thread. An hour ago I was ready to divorce WW. Now I am not. Interesting.
I feel that the power of the relationship has moved to your court.
She has just started her advances towards you. (Tiburon music here, please.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
How about finding out when Pittman gives consultations and have the info ready and tell WW in one of her next phone calls. When her walls start to fall you just tell her to meet you with Pittman.
Don't put to much weight into her words right now, she's testing you.
You show her your strenght by living your life the best you can.
This is just begining, I think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
She knocked on my door out of the blue earlier this afternoon. Very sweet. She drove me to buy a few groceries and then we went to dinner. I must admit, the best few hours we have spent together since DD. We came back "home" and put on a movie. She even brought her PJ's. A little presumptuous on her part perhaps but heck, things were going okay. In fact, really good.
Then Frankenstein took over. She started screaming out of the blue that I abandoned her and turned her kids against her. I told her we went through five installments of that show last night and I was not going through it again. As is customary for her family members, her real family, she repeated herself several times. I told her that I had identified the source of the problem: she wants to bury her affair like a dog buries a bone and she wants to dredge ToddAC and open up all his body parts and smear them all over God's green earth. She said that she had admitted she "messed up". I reminded her that not only had she never admitted she "messed up" she always justified her affair by saying she thought I was dying and/or problems in the marriage. She reminded me that she had not loved me for more than twenty years and what is a woman supposed to do when a man hits on her if she doesn't love her husband? I reminded her that one day or one minute, she admitted her affair and a few minutes later denied it. Then said OM was impotent. I asked her if she never had an affair, how would she know that OM is impotent?
I never know exactly where bottom is. If we had not hit bottom at that point, I never wanted to find bottom. I told her she had to leave. She refused. I again told her she had to leave. She grabbed her wine and muttered the phrase "This will be the last night I spend on Earth". Hence, once again, she plays the suicide card. BTW, BF who is an RN taught her how to commit suicide.
I walked her down to her car, she got in, started the engine and took off like a bat out of he!!, as is, again, customary for her and her real family.
I have been piecing myself together for seven months or more, facing my mortality and trying to decide what to do about my marriage. As we exited the door, I told her that discussing exposure and the move out were off the table until we discussed her affair with her being honest for longer than five minutes. She again said that she had admitted she was wrong. I reminded her that last night, she claimed OM was impotent. And then she said they were just friends and later seemed to acknowledge that she had an affair. I told her my mind cannot bounce from fantasy to reality like a ping pong ball as it seems to do for her.
She will hit bottom. Don't go along for the ride. You and I have both been piecing ourselves together with not one iota of help from our respective WWs. Stay focused on you. People who commit suicide don't usually advertise it. She wants sympathy.
I am curious. Did she was she was wrong...made a mistake...committed an error...messed up?
When she admits that she betrayed your trust and your marriage - those are better words.
My WW always says she committed an error - but she never elaborates on what the error was. Was it the A? getting caught in the A? what was the error?
Your WW is still not showing any signs of remorse IMHO. Maybe a little guilt but certainly no remorse.
BTW, I don't remember the poem ending that way. I'll google it just to be sure.
You are getting close to make her discuss with openess what happended.
You made it clear that you are not going to keep discussing sensesless for hours.
You were open but not desperate as to try to keep her at all cost.
The two of you spend sometime together, enough to make her remember what it feels like to have her husband by her side.
Hopefully she won't disappear into silence at this point.
If she calls you, you may want to share some more time with her without affair talks, just to show her what she could have <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> if she starts to speak honestly.
Pio, she just bounces all over the map. Literally, she will say, yes I admitted what I did then follow it by saying, but you misunderstood, I never had an affair. Then, OM is impotent. Then, you don't know how ashamed I was for my sons to find out about what I did. Then, the ultimate BLT: you don't know what I said or didn't say because your tumor has eroded your memory. Now this one came directly from OM because he used it on DS and XW. XW passed his wisdom onto me.
I have already read ahead and see that laruousse thinks this is good. larousse, pray tell, how can this be good?
Oh, forgot to mention, at dionner tongiht, WW finally asked if I wanted to get back together. I told her I didn't know. I told her we first had to discuss some truth about her affair and the reasons, the real reasons, and try to understand if she can ever be remorseful. She said that she is remorseful. I asked her to describe what her remorse feels like. She couldn't. She then launched back into the theme of the day: what's wrong with ToddAC.
Okay ToddAC, your WW does not appear to want to R for the sake of R. On the other hand she appears desperate. I just wonder what is the source of this desperation? Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
I uncovered this tonight. She is afraid of being alone. It is apparent that OM has moved on to greener pastures as a philanderer would do. She was just another notch in his belt as described by Pittman. She must feel like a fool, so with OM out of the picture, and OM2 happily married and who knows about OM3? Maybe he notched his belt on moved on as well. Last man standing is ToddAC.
Okay let me try to look at this from a different perspective. You have a significant advantage over me in that you have been separated for a while. I am just a few days but it does give you time to think whereas Plan A does not.
Don't think about whether or not you want to R. Think about what you would desire from being married. What are your needs? Can your WW provide them? I am not talking about your conditions for R. I agree with those. But what if she meets them and you do accept the opportunity to R - will you be better off or worse off? That is where my head is at right now. If the best answer you can give is that your grown sons won't have to make a decision as to who to visit at Christmas, I think that says something.
I would listen to larousse because I have been with you from day one and I am not as optimistic as her. I think it is good that you hear multiple perspectives. In my sitch, my children are much longer and definitely influence my decision process.
What do you want from M? What are your EN's? I am working on my own list but I will read HNHN after Pittman.
WW is drunk, as usual, and keeps calling and repeating about the kids. Let's see, thus far, eleven times tonight. I tell her each time I will hang up if she brings up the kids again. I encourgaged her to discuss our marriage, her affair and/or R. The next drunken words from her mouth are about the kids. I have quit answering the phone
My number one EN is peace and quiet. Just became number one tonight.
What do I want from this marriage? Nothing but a D.
I think it's good that she's trying to talk to you. it means that she has done some 'thinking' and decided that she wants you after all. You can negotiate with her better in this way than if it were you trying to convince her of stopping her affair.
The affair was a process in which she allowed herself to distance from you and to justify her need for 'love' and 'romance' to have it. The same way the coming back to the marriage is a process.
She's trying to keep face and power and is not yet 'on her knees' but it looks like with some coaching she will get there.
One reason to have outside coaching is to avoid tiring talks. The marriage and the affair is discussed only for an amount if time not all the time.
As tempting as it's to just go back to your cave Todd, I think this is the 'window' of recovery some people mention in this forum.
There is no point on discussing with her while she's drunk but whenever she mentions her kids you can repite to her that she can have her place in the family as mother and wife as soon as she recognize her mistakes, the way it affected you all and commits her self to the family and marriage.
Do I again need to post the lyrics from "I am a Rock"?
We have talked six more times. She finally said that the affair was a "mistake". I said no, a mistake is when you buy skim milk instead of 2% milk. She said for me to ask any question about her affair that I wanted to. I asked her why she had the affair. She said it was my fault. I asked her why was it my fault. She said you didn't take care of your crops and another man did. I reminded her of my illness. She said that didn't matter that her BF told her that there were things I could have and should have done. I reminded her I did those things. We did a lot of things despite my illness. I have never let her down.
When cornered, switch gears. So she said that the affair was half her fault and half OM's fault. She said I know you blame him but it was just as much me as it was him. Then she switched gears and said the affair was half my fault. Following the math? Then she quickly said that the affair was all my fault. I asked her how. She turned coat and then said it was all OM's fault that he is a "womanizer" and he saw her as vulnerable and took advantage of her. She said if I wanted to know why he did it to ask him. I remminded her of my promise that OM and I will dance at the appropriate time. She said to leave OM alone. I asked what's wrong with dancing. She said I know you and I know what you mean. It went downhill from there.
Does anyone know the quickest way to sober up a Puerto Rican?
It seems there are some similitudes between yours, Todd and Pio's stories. Both WW's affairs were born under some stressful times on their lifes. It looks like they were looking some kind of outside reafirmation more than running away from conflicts in their marriages.
The reason why I think there is redemption for them is because up until the affair they were good mothers and wives, to a point I guess. Also it seems that althought the 'wild' life is tempting they seem to go back to the stability of the marriage.
Todd I don't see why you have to forgive her and give her an opportunity to regain a place in your heart and your life. You have been badly wronged. At the same time I feel you have so much love for her, for the past her. She can't face what she has done and she may think that admiting all and facing all will only make you to reject her completely.
She has no idea of your capacity for love, she sees herself as defective and as unlovable, she's trying to mantain a facade. If she could only imagine that you know her better than she thinks, that along the years you have loved her weakness and her rough sides.
It's so subjective what a man or woman can or can't forgive, from the outside somethings look too much or not so much. Only you know what you have endured and what you can forgive. All rationalization aside of what is best for the marriage and the family and what you want from her as your life partner, all valide and necesary questions, I think there is this place called Grace, where we all defective human beings get the opportunity to redime ourselves from past mistakes.
Sounds like she is really trying to reach...I think it is a major step for her to even admit 1/2 fault at this point...she will not go from zero to 180 in that short of time...she is inching there. Seems like she is bobbing and spending a little more time above water each time but still gravitating back down...if you have any desire to salvage the M give her some positive reinforcement for the admissions and sharing...you won't get total and complete honesty all at once although that is what we all want and need...unfortunately I think it comes in small pieces and snowballs until you get the bulk...sometimes you don't even get the entire story even when you recover.
I have friends who grazed plan D and were the WS and they provided "enough to satisfy the BS" but held back "unnecessary details"...do I agree with this...no but I guess each recovery is different.
I'm sorry if you are frustrated but after 6 months it seems something has spurred this change and opportunity is knocking. Just keep being you and be the best ToddAC...don't let her push your buttons but throw her a life preserver when the time comes if you want the M.
My H asked me tonight "so what is going to happen to us?" I told him it was up to him, I want a husband and family but it seems like he wants to be a batchelor without any responsibilities...
he told me he has no problem being responsible for the kids he just doesn't know if he wants to be a husband...I told him the ball is in his court, he needs to decide what he wants...I want a husband and family and if he doesn't want to be a husband he needs to let me know...
he says he doesn't know what he wants and he doesn't know how to get from where he is back to being a husband...I reminded him what the MC said and what all the books say that we need to spend 15 hours of alone time a week for us not talking about M but just trying to have fun...he says he doesn't know if that is what he wants...
I asked him what he wants from me...he says nothing, that I look incredible but he just can't stand spending time with me...it gives him chest pain...I told him he needs to think about what he wants and if it is the M he needs to start doing things to improve it b/c I am not taking the lead here, if he wants it he has to work for it. He left as he does every night b/c he "needs to escape" from me...
This song reminds me of a portion of a Gibran poem on love:
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
ToddAC makes a declarative statement: tonight has deteriorated further. My youngest son has become involved because of the stupidity of my WW. He is distraught worrying about his mom killing herself. I hate this ****. Self edited.
I want to live in a seasonless world. Put me in coach; I am ready.
I Am a Rock
A winters day In a deep and dark december; I am alone, Gazing from my window to the streets below On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow. I am a rock, I am an island.
I've built walls, A fortress deep and mighty, That none may penetrate. I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain. It's laughter and its loving I disdain. I am a rock, I am an island.
Dont talk of love, But I've heard the words before; It's sleeping in my memory. I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died. If I never loved I never would have cried. I am a rock, I am an island.
I have my books And my poetry to protect me; I am shielded in my armor, Hiding in my room, safe within my womb. I touch no one and no one touches me. I am a rock, I am an island.
And a rock feels no pain; And an island never cries.
Call the police or the hotline for suicide. It's the fastest way to sobber up someone making suicide threats. It's hard to do it but for what I have seen here in MB, very effective.
Well I just got the DDs to their first day of school. We met their teachers and found their classes and they learned where they have to line up in the mornings. DD1 will help DD2 learn where to go. The only complication is that, for lunch, DD2 gets out at 10:30 while DD1 gets out at 11:15. I talked to the teacher and she will walk DD2 to the front gate where that housemaid will be waiting for her. So far so good. We are only about 700 feet from the school gate so they will usually be walking to and from school. WW always drove DD1 but I always thought that was over the top - especially in the nice weather. A lot of kids walk who live three or four times as far away as we do. They are still a bit jet-lagged but they did manage to get about 4 hours sleep last night.
BTW believer, you are the one who pushed me to separate from gemela. I am glad you did but I am interested in your comments if you have any.
I don't know why some WW's can't deal with guilt in a healthy way, is that an oximoron? It's a sick dynamic, they can't come completeley clean and at the same time they punish themselves or take destructive choises unable to face the pain they caused and their own pain.
Maybe it's of little consolation but there are some examples of suicide threats or attempts in the forum. It comes with the territory, maybe as an intent to take the presure from their shoulders getting the pity of the BS. Dunno.
I have accomplished my lifelong dream: I am Superman! Given what I have been through the last five hours and that my heart is still beating and my brain is still working, I am indestructable. I am truly Superman.
Problem is, WW hoards a piece of Kryptonite.
Tonight, for the first time, WW genuinely expressed regret and apologies for her affair. She even takes responsibility for the effect on the kids. Here's what shook her loose. She told DS3 again tonight she was going to kill herself. DS3 got drunk and very despondent. I talked to him for thirty minutes. After typing that, I just got off the phone again. I must share with you: the hurt and pain of my WW's affair and deception pales in comparison to the effect on my sons. My youngest son, in his drunken state, keeps repeating how we were the perfect family. What happened Dad?
In that instant, I decided I was going to R. I will R for the wrong reasons but I will do it. I cannot stand to see my sons in that much pain. Plus, WW showed some remorse tonight.
Don't misunderstand me. I love my WW in the sense of sentimentality and our family. But, I will never be in love with her again. She crossed too many lines and burned too many bridges. But for the sake of my family, I will live in that seasonless world.
And, please, I don't say this out of self-pity but the incredible love I have for my sons.
And take it from me sports fans: infidelity is way overrated.
Busy day SpMn ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I think you don't have to supress your deep needs of a meaningful marriage. Stick to counceling as one condition and NC of course. NC letter is very important too, practic and symbolic.
I honestly don't know if you are playing with me here Todd. But, assuming you are serious, You should start with a NC letter from your wife to OM approved by you of course and the EN questionaires filled out by both of you.
BK, no I am not playing with you in any regard. I am very serious. I am also very confused right now about what has happened over the past 24 hours. And, I have read a number of your posts and respect your intelligence and knowledge.
1st thing: R = Recovery, am I right? 2nd thing: How old is DS3? 3rd thing: You are typing much better and you are much more together than you have been (apart from the WW sitch I mean). I think that is VERY positive in terms of your health.
Ok, answer me the first two and I hope you respect my intelligence and knowledge too. (Me, me, me - it's all about me LOL). Actually it isn't all about me, just got a few thoughts that's all.
OK Todd. Excellent. The MB Program works. Can you counsel with the Harleys? It's not inexpensive. Failing that, as long as both of you are willing to wholeheartedly throw yourselves into it you could try the MB Home Study Audio CD Course - it worked for us.
Again, the starting point is NC. If your wife commits to that and writes a letter, she will then go through a period of withdrawal. The end of withdrawal will be pretty much evident by the way the fog disappears and she starts to see things as they actually are instead of in fogese.
I am presuming of course that she is not in contact with OM. Is OM married? Have you contacted his spouse? She could be a good ally in enforcing NC.
Todd - NC is KEY here. I can almost give you a 100% guarantee that if NC is established and maintained that things will dramatically improve but be warned, they will get worse while she is in withdrawal before they get better.
I'm sorry if some of this is redundant but I really have taken a lot of this thread with a grain of salt and have skimmed much of it. I will be more attentive in the future so I can be more helpful.
Ok, Todd, you're not around so I'll say what I was going to say anyway.
I don't think people understand how your adult children are still very much your children. So often I hear that people will make their decisions when their children are "in college" or "moved out of home". I know the relationship I have with my children and how devastated they would be if anything happened to our marriage. They are 28 and 26 as mentioned in my sig line and they still look to us for the security of their world. But they're not stupid, they don't want us just to "be together", they want us to be happy together. The fact that we're happy together means far more to them than us just being together.
HOWEVER, they are adults and live in their own world and have their own trials and challenges and lives to lead.
If you can't love your w again I think you'd be making the biggest mistake of your life to reconcile with her. Even given your health, I can see you living to a ripe old age. Do you really want to spend it with someone who is not your support, your helpmate, your best friend, because your sons will be unhappy if you don't.
You will be doing your sons a disservice and you will be doing yourself a disservice.
If you really think you and your w will be happy, go for it, but only do it for you and her, not your family. I truly do understand how much your DS's feelings influence how you're feeling right now but it's YOUR life, not theirs.
I agree with KiwiJ (for once). WW created this problem and it is her responsibility to solve it. You going for R just to spare DS3's feelings simply continues denial.
BigK, OM is divorced. OMW knows all and is no help. Lives out-of-state I believe.
Now KiwiJ, apply your logic to my sitch. I promised my DD1 that I would not split our family apart. On the other hand, I am not the one who has done it. Gemela is the one who has split our family apart. Do I accept her back (assuming she will want that) just to keep the DDs happy?
Warning: fopen(/www/marriage/html/ubbt/ContentIslands/4_rss092.xml): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 168
Warning: fwrite(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 169
Warning: fclose(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 170
Warning: fopen(/www/marriage/html/ubbt/ContentIslands/4_rss10.xml): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 229
Warning: fwrite(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 230
Warning: fclose(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 231
Warning: fopen(/www/marriage/html/ubbt/ContentIslands/4_html.js): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 99
Warning: fwrite(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 100
Warning: fclose(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /www/marriage/html/ubbt/ci_builder.php on line 101
Well, I don't do logic, but that was rather a big promise to make to DD1 under the circumstances. She won't care if it was you or it was her mother who broke the family up, her family is breaking up.
They can't stay out of contact with their mother, you need a plan for joint parenting.
I really feel for your little girls. I think you are being a wonderful father to them and doing wonderfully under awful circumstances but you really do need to resolve things as quickly as possible.
Sorry, that sounds like a ramble.
That other stuff "failed to open stream" etc is just a PITA that seems to have happened recently.
Just kidding Jen. Acutally if I can say this properly; I personally believe that FWS can bring a unique perspective to a BS sitch. I badly need perspective. I care only, at this point, about the well-being of my sons.
Amd yes, I respect your intelligence and knowledge.
Todd, I have NO idea what your wife wants. I just don't get it at all. Without MB, as you wife has been, she just won't get it. Who knows how everything would have turned out if I hadn't confessed in April about what had happened and had not been given the REAL truth from everyone about where I was and what was really going on.
Sorry, that's not very helpful is it?
I know the well being of your sons is paramount for you but as I said before, my kids aren't stupid, they don't want us to just be together, they want proof that we're happy and it hasn't been at all hard to give it to them.
Your sons will see through any falseness immediately.
If you do a google search on French's Mustard, it is owned by Reckitt Benckiser PLC. So my French's mustard is really British mustard. But that sort of spoils it.
Well I don't believe in soulmates. I think it is very easy to fall in love with someone if you don't guard against it. Yes I could love gemela again. There is also a lot of pain that makes it difficult to want to.
I think a lot depends on what gemela says and does when she comes back. Right now I think our fate is very much in her hands. The UK hand baggage restrictions are severe - so much so that I will never fly BA again. But gemela is in Mexico with two hand carry bags that will not pass in the UK. I told her today that if she tries to take them, she will be refused at the security check, have to clear immigration and document the bags and then go back through security. If she does all that there is almost no chance to make the flight. I told her that her spending even one night in London is automatic divorce - no questions asked. I asked her to consider how much those bags meant to her and whether they were worth her marriage.
For all I know she may decide she wants to be divorced. I can live with that. I am not totally closing the door but she is going to have to fight her way back through it. If she fights for the M, I think we will be okay. If she doesn't, we will be divorced.
Prior to agreeing to MC H made tentative arrangements to move out...the new abode would be available sometime this month...the thing is, it is an arrangement made through one of the OWs for a colleague of hers and would be housesitting...the arrangement would last a year. I was all for it prior to his decision to try and recover M...I told him when he said he wanted to try MC and work on M that if he was serious about it he should not move out...I said that the arrangement was an easy out for whenever he decided he didn't want to work on M and that I would consider it a "love shack" for him to bring OWs to when he was going to supposedly be working on M.
His perspective is that it is a stable, viable, financially feasible plan in case "you pull your card and toss me out like you have attempted to 3 times in the past 2 months". It is true prior to his agreeing to recover M I have asked him to leave but for financial reasons he stays...he left once but came back after 48 hours b/c he couldn't stand to be away from the kids...
Do I tell him to move on with the move out...he hasn't mentioned it since he brought it up at MC over a week ago...I have no idea what his intent is...or do I plan B him from home with him living here or just go along with the MC, detach and see where things go????
I am so confused. I really do want to R the M and this is the most effort I have seen since the beginning of this nightmare in March...I don't know what to think...the last thing he told me is that he is staying for two reasons: financial and he is not sure what he wants
First of all you cannot Plan B with him in the house and you cannot Plan A him with him in the love shack.
Saying he could use the spare house as a love shack was certainly beneath your capability. I have to laugh at that one.
Quote
I am so confused
Aren't we all.
Quote
I really do want to R the M and this is the most effort I have seen since the beginning of this nightmare in March
Then keep him at home and tell him to get someone else for house-sitting so he will know that you are for real and won't vacillate in a week. If that option is gone for him then it is gone for you too. It doesn't matter WHY he stays now as long as he STAYS. He doesn't know what the truth is. Don't pay attention to the words.
You have a WW who is now confused. You have to be absolutely consistent, If you jump from one extreme to the other then so will he. You have to lead the way to R.
I know you are tired, mad, sad, frustrated, confused. Suck it up and save your marriage. Every time you want to LB/DJ him, keep your mouth shut and come vent here. And for God's sake keep your friggin boots off his side of the bed.
You want to get mad/feel sorry for yourself but it won't save your marriage. This is your window of opportunity. Enforce NC by any and all means and keep him at home. Every day of NC the balance tips further back toward you. You are just hitting six months. That is a crucial milestone for those millstone waywards.
Suck it up and get your rear in gear and get rid of the dang love shack. If it is housesitting, I doubt there is a contract. If there is no contract, you can walk out of that deal in a heartbeat sojust do it already and stop thinking about it. That is what I did in your sitch and would do again.
Todd, the fact that you looked at you WW with any sort of love in your heart amazes me & is sadly familiar.
I was so willing/eager to keep my marriage together I was willing to simply start from square one with then h & not confirm his affair. He didn't need to confirm my suspicions, he needed to honestly choose me & work on the marriage too. He couldn't/wouldn't do it.
By the final time he said he wanted to D my recovery time was much faster. More importanly, I didn't see him or the marriage the same way. When I looked at him I saw a weak liar, a man in a MLC unwilling to do the hard work to keep a family together, a selfish man convinced his needs were more important than any of ours. It's been two years & I still see that man.
You're a strong man to keep up this roller coaster ride. I know for me it was exhausting though I stayed on it with such hope.
It's funny, just the other day a friend was here when ex picked up the boys for the weekend. She said ex looks good, don't you think so? I told her I couldn't look at him that way & see just the outside he presents to the world. I know what's inside & that has changed my view of him permanently. I don't believe I could ever look at him, as you did with your WW, & see anything other than a man who betrayed & lied to me & broke up our family
Pio has excellent advice. Separate this mess from what you want from a marriage & decide if your WW is capable of rising to that challange.
Schwack!!! The love shack was an arrangement H made when I kicked him out after I found out he was still in contact with OWs at my children's bedside as I lay in the trauma center across town. He coordinated it and only he can uncoordinate it...he hasn't discussed any other details with me re: it or whether he is going to do it or not. He did bring it up at MC session but there was no discussion as we were at the end or our session and the counselor didn't discourage it as he doesn't know the details and it was our first session. So basically the love shack decision is H's...I've voiced my opinion to him already.
You are correct in my eratic feelings and behaviors...my biggest problem is keeping my big mouth shut...I hate it when I think he is lying and feel it is my duty to call him on every lie recognizable...LOL... I seriously only call him on things I know for a fact are lies and I do it as calmly and objectively as possible. He usually denies at first and then comes around gradually and admits it was fabricated and then attempts to give some crazy rationale.
I have been being very calm and am more of a counselor/friend to him than anything else...he just chooses not to confide in me or spend time with me for whatever his reasons are...
Thanks for your input, I do need a 2x4 to keep me focused on what the longterm goal is...his behavior is as eratic as mine and that is what is making me question this decision to continue working on M...
I have plan A'd longer than Harley recommends without any results that is why I was moving to plan B and trying to get him to move out...now as a last ditch effort after me repeatedly asking him to move out he decides on MC...that was a positive for us but I am ambivilent b/c I have no way to check on NC only his word and his actions. Knowing our past I have no reason to trust H.
NC is not a requirement of Plan A. Don't forget that. You can't make your WH do something he doesn't want to do very easily. If you feel yourself losing feelings for WH then go to Plan B but from what you said I don't get the impression you are quite ready for that. Besides - my opinion of what Dr. Harley or any doctor prescribes is a guideline. I found a bag of microwave popcorn the other day that said "best if served by Feb 2001". It did NOT say don't USE it after Feb 2001. Just to be safe I fed it to the DDs and I got a fresh one. They seem okay.
Some can go longer than 6 months and some much shorter. We are people and therefore genetically follow the Boltzmann distribution.
If your behavior is erratic, his will be to. Forget Star Wars - don't trust your feelings. Feelings deceive you equally as well as they did WH when he had his affair.
Before you decide to go to Plan B, I would try 180 or a partial 180.
Why do you feel compelled to prove to your WH that he is lying. He is an adulterer. He is a liar. he knows it - you know it. Who are you trying to convince? So you call him on a lie and he admits it - what have you gained? So he denies it - are you any better off? Work on Plan A and keep your mouth shut.
My opinion about the love shack fallback position is the same as watching a trapeze act at the circus - It is much more dangerous without a net but it is much more enjoyable as well. Hack the love shack. You tell him you would like it gone and you expect him to make it happen. POJA it if you have to but as long as you both know there is an easy out, neither one will be as highly motivated to ride through the rough spots.
The only question you need to answer to decide to continue working on the M is whether you still love your WH or not. Can I make it any simpler for you?
Good morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Todd, I hope you got a good sleep, what a day and night you had. How do you feel today? I hope your health recovery is not resenting this intense emotional days.
I just want to remaind you that at this moment you have the power in your relationship with your WW. You can decide what do you need from her to even consider getting together again. Don't forget that and don't let yourself be pressed. Maybe last night talks were a break through for her but she has to keep the openess and remorse, it could be that her drunken state make it easier for her to apologise but hold her accountable on daily life.
If you don't enforce your boundaries right now, many problems will appear again as soon as she feels secure about you. Remember boundaries are not for her but for you, boundaries are not what she shouldn't do but what you find unacceptable in your relationship, it's up to her to respet or not your boundaries.
Between the things you may find unacceptable are her friends, the ones that helped and hide the affair, her dringking scapedes, no friendship with male coleges...
Maybe you can appease your sons fears by telling them that you plan to work on the marriage but that you have to do it at your own pace and time.
Don't give up your power right now, take your time.
I don't know what Pittman offers for the after affair period, if he doesn't offer anything I would suggest you to use SAA plan, it has very useful recomendation to restablish a 'healthy' marital convivence and it mentions the tools needed to create an affair proof marriage.
Take your time, breath, rest, sleep.
2Much...
Hi, I agree with Pio's suggestions. I would only add that althought Plan A doesn't requiere NC, it's paramount that you expose during this time and keep reinforcing at appropiate times that NC is necesary to work on the marriage. When the WS says he's confused, usually it means he wants to cake eat. Don't question him about his love for you or what he wants from you, you put yourself in a weak position.
Edited to add: I agree with Pio's advice, just don't feed your kids 2001 Popcorn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
[quote]My opinion about the love shack fallback position is the same as watching a trapeze act at the circus - It is much more dangerous without a net but it is much more enjoyable as well. Hack the love shack. You tell him you would like it gone and you expect him to make it happen. POJA it if you have to but as long as you both know there is an easy out, neither one will be as highly motivated to ride through the rough spots.[quote]
Todd, my then 10 yo son asked me if I thought his father "had gf" before we told them we were going to D. He did the math & asked this on his very own. Killed me to hear this come out of his innocent mouth. You know what though, it wasn't my behavior that made this question possible.
Because this was causing stress in my son I shared the conversation with ex. He blew up accussing me of putting words in son's mouth & if I wanted make him look bad he could play that game too. Foggy stupidity, but he believes who knows what & feels justified.
My point being: I can't protect my boys from their own thoughts. What has happened & what their father does (he moved in with gf two weeks after D was final) are acts that will speak to the boys. They will put together what they will. I tell them I'm open to discussing whatever they want.
Damage has been done in your case & mine, there's no taking that back. All we can do is assure our kids we love them & always will.
There's no way to go back & recreate what they percieved to be.
If people tell me (even our MC said this) that you should never try to keep a marriage together just for the kids, what are you on about? My DDs are 5 and 7.
You can't be held accountable for fixing something you didn't break. If your WW can make you happy then by all means return to her but if she will bring you nothing but misery, every day with her will be a living inferno.
Do you just feel a need to punish yourself for something?
You went from rabid ramblings of divorce and revenge to happily ever after in the space of a few hours. Hardly a well thought out decision and certainly no plan of how to attain it.
The question is simple - will you be happier with WW or without her?
I love this thread...it is erratic, spontaneous and tangential as it gets...one minute the discussion is focused on train speeds and flight engineering with absolutely no mention of infidelity for days...swings to lyrics, poems and condiments and then runs rampant with infidelity chaos!!!! Much like our daily lives I guess:)
Thanks for all the input...
Todd, as passionate as you are about your DS feelings, you can't protect him forever...he needs to see things for what they are and figure out who is responsible for the destruction...it is a valiant thought but I must agree with Pio and co.
You should be all about Todd right now...your health, happiness etc. If she fits into the formula great...if not it is her loss...not saying not to make any effort, just saying to make it b/c you want to do it. This is what I am trying to stress to H...I will be fine with or without him...he needs to decide if he can be happy with the role of husband and father in our family...if not then it is his choice to change to make the formula work or move on to a new equation.
If people tell me (even our MC said this) that you should never try to keep a marriage together just for the kids, what are you on about? My DDs are 5 and 7.
DS3 broke me. I know no other way to express it. My sons mean more to me than anything in the world. I also do not believe that a couple should stay together for the sake of the kids. They need to see good and loving role models in marriage.
Quote
You can't be held accountable for fixing something you didn't break. If your WW can make you happy then by all means return to her but if she will bring you nothing but misery, every day with her will be a living inferno.
As you know, my view is of love as action. Can I express love to my WW? Can I show and demonstrate love for her? Undoubtedly. Will I ever be in love with her again? No way. I love her but I am not in love with her. There were too many bridges burned and too much hurt piled upon hurt to allow me to fall in love with her again. Can I be happy? Sure. Can I be the happiest that I can be, say if I make a trip to Russia? Not on your life.
Quote
Do you just feel a need to punish yourself for something?
No and I am puzzled why you would ask this question.
Quote
You went from rabid ramblings of divorce and revenge to happily ever after in the space of a few hours. Hardly a well thought out decision and certainly no plan of how to attain it.
Did you ever seen the movie "Cool Hand Luke"? Remember one of the lines: you broke me boss? I was broke last night. No, hardly a well-thought out plan. Recall my answer to BK? I ain't got no stinkin' plan.
Quote
The question is simple - will you be happier with WW or without her?
I have no idea. Trying to answer this for myself is like sitting on a cloud. My friend, I have lost my bearings.
WW called today to once again say she is sorry for "everything". I think her affair is tucked in there somewhere. I forgot to mention that when she came by yesterday, she wore turtle earrings. Remember my post about OM bringing her a turtle home from work one day?
And oh yeah, she asked about my health. She asked was my heart okay. For the record, my hormones had been scrambled to the point that I developed heart palpitations. She apparently couldn't bring herself to ask me about my brain. Maybe they will happen in a few weeks if BF okays it.
DDs are still jet-lagged. DD1 woke me up at 2:00 AM to tell me that DD2 could not sleep. We all got in bed and watched ET. They were afraid to watch it alone. It is now 4:30 AM and I have them down to try to get a nap before school.
1st day of school went very well. No crises. WW called yesterday afternoon. I didn't speak to her and gave the phone directly to DD1. DD1 was watching TV and the connection was bad so I guess WW told her she would try again today. DD1 said "okay" and hung up. About that time the neighbor children knocked on the door and asked DD1 out to play so she raced out. DD2 was sound asleep on the couch (5:00 PM) so stayed in. It will be about a week before we are over the jet lag.
I am trying to reinvent my schedule. I no longer have any time in the AM to work out so I am experimenting with a new schedule. Rash is gone BTW.
Sounds like you are handling the single parent thing well...
You should feel a sense of accomplishment and pride so far to handle everything with the vacation, travel and now school...I know the stress of juggling with getting kids to school, lunches, sports schedules etc...I've been on my own with everything for past year.
The girls will do well especially now that school is started and they will be busy with work, friends etc...most likely they will mention the missing mom at bedtime or in the evening since they will be tired and winding down...my girls meltdown when they are tired and the tiniest issues become life/death...it's all good by morning though.
I am sure it will be easier for you now too since you will be too busy juggling girls and work...I forget you have your nanny though, very nice to be able to have peace of mind and know everything is being taken care of while you are at work...can you try running at lunch time or early before the girls get up? I myself like to run late at night...I am more energetic and have much more pent up negativity by the end of the day that drives me further and harder than a morning workout.
You may need to kick me in the seat...I think I need a muzzle or maybe a good sew job on my mouth...I had kids out with me all day...came home at 5pm...H was home from work...he was watching TV...I went out and played with kids for 1.5 hr and when came in to cook dinner ...you guessed it, H in same spot...we all ate together and then he changed clothes to go out and play with kids...he was out with them a total of 5 minutes and returned complaining he was hot...it was the coolest day at 68 degrees...I was playing with DD2 at the time and DD1 and DS were outside. When H returned in I made a statement about "was that the extent of your kid time"...he joked about me bust'n his stuff...he annouces that he is going to go get the car washed...I ask if he is taking the kids...he gives a smart remark and leaves...me, kids and all the neighbors are in my yard playing when he drives up, pulls into the driveway and then pulls back out and leaves...texts me 5 minutes later saying he is on his way to a friends house...he then calls and tries to talk to me as if we have so much to talk about...he can't carry a conversation on lately unless it revolves around himself...
My dog then escapes...I look for the car keys to the vehicle he usually drives and has been off limits to me for past 9 months...extra set of keys disappeared a long time ago and he would get angry if I even looked in the windows of this vehicle...this is where he would hide all of his other clothes etc...he kept an entire wardrobe and grooming line in this vehicle for his 18 hour days away from home of which he only worked 8 hours/days...
So, I go to look for the keys...nowhere to be found...I have to physically track down the dog with my gimp leg in the pitch dark...I text to ask where the keys are...no response, my son texts to ask him to spend more time with him, no response...2 hours go by...no call, text, anything. I watch disney with the kids and give them all pedicures, they are happy and we have fun. I finally get a text telling me the keys are somewhere where they aren't, then a text to my son saying he plans on spending more time with everyone...then a phone call with H trying to tell me where he is and why it'll be a while...I cut him off and tell him I don't care where he is or when he gets back and that he just needs to do his explaining to his children and I promptly hang up. I may have hit the wall...
No kicks overall but behavior is hard to change overnight. I think this is something you should talk about and POJA rather than fight about. You just need to get away from this stormtrooper attitude you have.
Some options would be to wash the car together at home as a family event. I think it will take time to get him connected to the kids but it can happen. It probably won't happen with your approach.
Our MC suggested a family night. Dedicate one night a week for the family. Same night every week. Each week a different member of the family gets to pick an activity and you cycle that way. It was a good idea.
I am enjoying the single-parenting. I knew it would be difficult at first but I wanted the challenge. The housemaid is critical for getting them dressed to go to school and making sure they get lunch but, other than that, the kids are all mine. I am not going to use her as a babysitter. I have given up golf, for example, unless I take the girls with me and I can't this month due to the heat.
As far as your sitch goes, I can see it several ways. You spend all your time with the kids and H doesn't. You want some time for just you. Fair enough. POJA your time out.
H spend no time with the kids so he is missing them and you think that is bad for them. A little less selfish on your part. I don't know.
I would recommend that you start with an activity that your H would take some personal interest in and that the kids would enjoy and make an event out of it. I admit I cannot stand to sit and play Bratz with the DDs while gemela can. Make it bike riding, bowling, tennis, gardening, etc. and I can get into it. I can play Uno with the DDs but not Scrabble because DD2 can't spell anything yet. I would play Scrabble with DD1 as educational benefit but I cannot exclude DD2 so it is moot. I can take the girls swimming because I enjoy that too. I guess I would just try to think of something for the kids that H will not feel is destroying his free time. If you start there, I think you will gradually build more activities because H will progressively start taking more interest in what is important to the kids. JMO.
My H would agree with your comment about "stormtrooper".
I did ask if we could all wash car together...ignored...I tossed out bunches of suggestions of things to do as a couple at home or away from and as a family...he acknowledged that I threw them out there but hasn't done anything with the ideas.
It just kills me that he is choosing not to spend time with his kids or myself and would rather spend time with essentially total strangers...I feel like telling him to move in with them and see how supportive and caring they are ...will they do his laundry, pay the bills, cook and shop for him...take care of all the real business????
He is living in a fantasy land and will use any excuse to avoid responsibility as a parent or husband at this point. I can survive without the attention but my children are feeling rejected...DD1 said she was sad that dad chose to spend his free time with his friends rather than be with her...I told her to tell him how she felt but she is afraid b/c he snaps at her and says things like, "did your mother tell you to say that" when she went out with him for her birthday to shop he asked if she was going to be her mother's spy and tell who dad talked to and how much he used his phone...to me that is just plain wrong...the issues are between us and shouldn't be pulling the kids into it...DD1 is not stupid and tells me things that bother her to include that the only 2 times her dad spent any time with her in past 6 months he was on the phone the entire time...she said her teammates ask why her dad is always on the phone when he took her to practices in the spring...she is sensitive and smart and figures things out for herself...she actually told me I need to put a spycam on him!
Ok, I am venting to try and get rid of my aggression in case he decides to roll in tonight...yep there have been a few nights that he doesn't come home and then lots that he rolls in at 0200-0300 without any comment about his whereabouts. I quit asking questions a while ago since I don't believe anything anyway.
Okay now I am going to give you a swat. Stop complaining and do something about it. Don't suggest the car wash. Get the hose and soap out and do it (with the kids) and then drag H out. He'll go.
I will test your theory for a week without c/o if given the opportunity and report back to you. I warn you that I will most likely be venting much more to keep my sarcastic mouth out of trouble. I think that my marriage would have a much better chance if I were clubbed and woke up with amnesia starting a fresh history and reuiniting with H as if for the first time...perhaps that will be a new MB techinque if it is successful for me????
Try it for four weeks and vent here all you want. Just remember that you will probably have to drag H into activities - especially at first. No LBs or DJs please. We have a deal.
Sad thing is his death will probably be grieved more overseas than here at home in Australia - my wife thinks. I disagree. He was a great man and a great ambasador for his country. He loved his wife and kids. RIP Steve Irwin.
Getting back to the 33 foot tree height, I wonder if trees have an internal mechanism similar to peristalsis. That would remove the height restriction.
Capillary pressure is out of the question and my only other theory is the possibility that the upper portions of trees receive their water as water vapor via partial pressure driven diffusion through an internal capillary where it is then transported via osmosis into the cellular structure of the limbs and leaves. While I can accept this conceptually, I struggle with the efficiency.
This is all, of course, based on the hypothesis that trees need water. I think I will go research peristalsis in cellulose structures.
Very sad...I'm sure he will be missed by many but no more than his wife and boys...although his job was fun and educational it was extremely high risk, at least the way he passionately performed. Our loss, heavens gain...imagine how lively it's gonna be there now?
Score one for Pio...once I mentally agreed to his plan last night I texted H and apologized for being an a$$ on the phone...listed what triggered it and then waited. No return text but I calmly read a book after sending kids to bed. 30 min after I sent text H comes home smiling, kisses me on the mouth...unheard of (haven't kissed on mouth for months and prior to all the D-days only pecked each other for years except for SF)...H happily thanked me for the appology, stated that was all he was waiting for...we talked for 10 min and then he put a movie in for us to finish watching (started it 2 day ago)...
H called this am from work asking me if he could pick me up something I have been needing for weeks...
Ok Pio, I'll give it 4 weeks and will tell the stormtrooper personality of mine to go into hiding...thanks for your advice and support...beware!
Score one for Pio...once I mentally agreed to his plan last night I texted H and apologized for being an a$$ on the phone...listed what triggered it and then waited. No return text but I calmly read a book after sending kids to bed. 30 min after I sent text H comes home smiling, kisses me on the mouth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />..unheard of (haven't kissed on mouth for months and prior to all the D-days only pecked each other for years except for SF)...
H happily thanked me for the appology, stated that was all he was waiting for...we talked for 10 min and then he put a movie in for us to finish watching (started it 2 day ago)...
H called this am from work asking me if he could pick me up something I have been needing for weeks...
Ok Pio, I'll give it 4 weeks and will tell the stormtrooper personality of mine to go into hiding...thanks for your advice and support...beware! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
The PR treatment for sore heart? The PR treatment caused the sore heart. Hmm... hair of the dog equals the cure.....?
Things have calmed down considerably. One key is that WW is not drinking.
She gave me the prepaid cell phone that she had tucked away in her glove box. She forgot to erase text messages and there are five messages awaiting in voice mail. Of course, I viewed the text messages; one was last month to wish OM Happy Birthday. Recall that WW claimed she had not had contact in any way since I moved out. I already knew it was a lie but this puts a date on this contact. The other message was an old one wishing OM a Happy New Year. The minutes are gone but I will call to add more tomorrow. First order of business will be to listen to the five voice mails.
Several months ago, I called my PI and asked if he could get detail call records for a prepaid phone. He said no, that's why drug dealers and cheating spouses use them. The juxtaposition of the two operatives was not lost on me.
Bigger said, or at least I think he said, that WW and I are off the plateau. I have no idea where we are, perhaps on the "plane of lethal flatness". Anybody have a compass and a map?
So, things are calm for the moment. There are a lot of burned out bridges between here and recovery and many conversations, honest ones hopefully, to be had. I am not hopeful. The truth does not come easily for WW.
I posted a really thoughtful and sensitive post to you this am wondering how things were with you and it appears it went into the MB black hole...sorry
Let me ask 2 Q's for anyone wanting to respond:
1) should I still be trying to f/u on H or should I quit trying to snoop for the 4 wk trial I agreed to with Pio?
2) if I should continue to snoop can you tell me how a person goes from 1500 TM/mo averaging 30 calls a day and 50-75 TMs per day to at least 10-15 different #'s in and outgoing to suddenly on a particular date the only calls and text that show on the bill are my cell #, our home # and possibly 2-3 other single TM or call to other # in past week. H says he told everyone to schedule appt's through the office and not call/TM him. I have a hard time swallowing this since there was no gradual taper and the fact that he has been talking about how he talked to so and so but the calls don't show up on the cell and before he gave me his cell password he was talking to this friend and her husband over 20+ times per day. H has been going to this friends house nightly in the very late eve until early am...I find it interesting that if he was using his cell to talk to this friend and her husband before why would he tell them not to use his cell unless... a) he is using a prepaid cell phone b) he has a new phone service and calls are forwarded to the new service c) some other high tech method I am not aware of
Any suggestions, intel, advice? It just doesn't make sense but of course I don't want to address it until I know what is really goinng on. I hate this...
Hi 2much, sorry I haven't been commenting on your sitch, I've been reading but I haven't really got any advice. You're getting very good advice from Pio and the others though. Just wanted to acknowledge you and let you know I was thinking of you.
I agree about this thread. It's great until Pio t/js it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just finished a long conversation with WW. It started with WW asking me did I want to get back together. I told her it would not be a decision point but would involve a process. The process would include her talking about her affair, the reasons she got into it, what would be different in the future and some misgivings I had about staying married to her.
I decided to bring a hammer to the conversation; WW brought a flamethrower and a crowbar. As I tried to hammer nails and build bridges, she used the flamethrower to burn more bridges. And she used the crowbar to pull out nails I had just hammered in.
Here's the Reader's Digest version. She didn't have an affair. She hasn't talked to OM, or attempted to communicate with him in any way in over a year. Recall the two text messages I pulled off her prepaid phone, the same type used by drug dealers because the calls cannot be traced? So, instantly she started with lies. I was mindful of Pittman's description of the need for a WS to answer questions truthfully but also recall that he said that a WS who enounters a drunk BS with a machinegun may do well to lie. Love his sense of humor.
So, nothing to drink and no machinegun. No flareups, no angry outbursts. I was a man. I thought of Rob honestly. I was Rob. I was Superman. No emotions. It served no useful purpose.
She continued to emit one lie after another. There was no sex, no touching, no oral, no foreplay - nothing. I asked her was it an EA? She said yes that was all but it was only one way, that he was in love with her. I reminded her that he was a racist and according to XW's own words, one of the groups he hated was Puerto Ricans. I asked her how she could submit herself to a man that hates the very ethnic group from whence she comes. She said that you don't think about things like that when you are having an affair.
Okey dokey.
I put the hammer away. I told her the only chance we had was for both of us to see IC and MC. She reminded me that she thinks all therapists are crazy. I also told her she needs to write a NC letter to OM, which I would approve and mail. She said there is no reason to send such a letter because there is no contact. I kept my powder dry.
We ended our conversation cordially. I have no doubt she thinks she has pulled the wool over my eyes. I have no doubt that she will never tell the truth.
But for some reason, I cannot stop thinking about DS3 crying like a baby.
HHHmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...doesn't sound like it was very comforting...can I suggests some tools to bring to the next mtg??? How about a power saw to amputate dead wood? Maybe a jackhammer to dig a hole for her to jump in or to bury all the lies and old baggage? Definitely need some earplugs!!!!
Sorry, I know I am not very encouraging but I just don't have any good advice...doesn't sound like she is ready for transparency eh? My guess is she will come around and admit you were correct with your accusations but it will be in her time and on her terms. My H is always good for saying that he would have told me on his own if I would just have given him time...I found out some new info about his EA from 2002-2004 just a few weeks ago...guess our time frames are a bit different.
I could elaborate but it is midnoght and here is the reader's digest version:
Shut off the radar. Don't snoop. Snooping stresse you. Do you know what is worse than finding something? NOT finding something. I gave up sbooping a long time ago and it made a huge difference in my attitude. I simply assumed she was guilty and left it at that.
The other things is that by continuing to snoop, you still make the A exciting for him. If you let it go, the excitement goes.
JMO but if you really want to kill this thing, go deaf, dumb and blind.
My H is always good for saying that he would have told me on his own if I would just have given him time...I found out some new info about his EA from 2002-2004 just a few weeks ago...guess our time frames are a bit different.
No different than repairing the deck really. We'll get around to it. It's just a "guy" thing. There was probably football on or something so he just forgot that he meant to tell you.
I'm so proud of you. Great attitude. You may not see the results soon but it's great that you stood up and voiced your requirements. Let her win her way back to the marriage. Something tells me that she'll respect you more after this.
I should perhaps introduce the two of you and you can team up and bash me???? HAHAHAHA He is not your typical man...not a sports fan...doesn't do "man" things...that has always been his rationale for having so many female friends.
I will try your see no evil, hear no evil speak no evil along with the rest of the deal for the 4 weeks...I admit I am much happier not snooping it seriously sucks the life out of me.
Can anyone tell me for certain whether regreted and "lagrima" are the same person? I really want to know this because I see differences in BH behavior if they are the same person and I think it is significant. If they are not the same person, I'll just ignore it.
Based on BH behavior, I think they are different people or else BH has changed drastically.
There was/is a poster called "lagrima" [the spanish word for her english screen name]. I used the spanish equivalent so her BH could not search on it in case she wanted some anonymity. Later there was a poster of a different name that seemed like the same person. Now there is a poster named "regreted". I have some confusion. I have followed most of all those threads but got a little lost at one point.
There was a question as to whether those were two or three different people or just one person. I thought larousse would know. I ask the question because I have not been following regreted's thread closely. Why this is important is this: if regreted and "lagrima" are the same person then there have been some significant changes in BH behavior (for the better) which would be very hopeful. If they are different people, I need to try to keep those two BH's separate in my mind.
It is a bit confusing because one or both posters have not always been entirely honest. I hope that makes sense. I remember lagrima's BH was abusive, started drinking, locked himself in his room and wanted nothing to do with DD. Regreted's BH now seems to be Mr. Mom. If those two are the same, I see that as very positive. But they may not be the same so I don't want to talk about it with regreted until I know one way or the other.
I am reluctant to say too much because both(?) live in constant fear that BH will find their threads.
Pio, yes lagrima (wow, I translated that without knowing Spanish - see my English education which included the roots of words wasn't entirely wasted) and regreted are the same person as far as I know. I think there was a post on it somewhere. There is another persona as well. The one you thought was offering you cialis.
Okay folks, I have a new theory. I believe everyone in this thread is one person. It's almost like the trilogy implied in Asimov's "The Gods Themselves" which delves into particle physics. Yes, we are one. Yes, we are the people. Yes, we are a Coke commercial. Yes, I am drunk.
Thanks - that helps a lot. That being the case I will go through the new thread in more detail but from what I saw last night, there are some very positive changes - and some setbacks.
I believe that too, Todd. I have to consult a dictionary before I change into my Pio persona and I have to become very clever at physics when I change into my Todd persona. When I'm being BigK I have to talk with an Aussie accent and say "mate" a lot and when I'm being Larousse I have to speak fluent Spanish.
When I'm being 2much, I have to wear army boots. I'm sure I've missed people out, sorry, if I have.
And when I'm being me I just have to be cute and charming and throw in the odd big word to keep up the pretence I'm intelligent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Crikey I meant to watch my Crocodile Hunter movie last night but fell asleep. I woke up to National Geographic and some guy was chasing down pythons in Uttar Pradesh. I immediately realized just how good Steve Irwin was. Crikey what a loss.
Yes, Todd, we know who Steve Irwin was. As I mentioned on Idiotville, he was such a parody of an Australian that most people down under were very embarrassed by him. It is sad he's gone, especially as he was very happily married with two very small children. I wouldn't be caught dead saying crikey. It's a kiwi expression as well as an Australian one, usually heard by very old men in the pub. The full expression is Crikey [censored](exclamation point). When people are angry they say "By crikey I'll get you for that." It's a euphamism for Christ (used as a blasphemy).
Yes, of course we have Coca Cola in NZ. LOL, duh!
Yes, I saw your Rob comment. You could do a lot worse than be like my H. He IS Superman, no doubt about it.
No, we don't have the Home Depot but I've picked up that it's like our Mitre 10 stores.
All kidding aside, I cannot tell you how much Steve Irwin meant to me. It was primarily his enthusiasm that hooked me. His death was due to a freak accident. Ironic considering he has handled Black Mambas and every snake in the book.
I will never forget a segment of his show in which the Army Rangers invited him to the swaps and wasteland of Eglin Air Force base to clear snakes out of the way of new trainees. He did so, with aplomb. But, while chasing a bear, he happened upon a rather large Eastern Diamondback Rattlesanke, the acknowledged king of rattlers. He layed on the ground right in front of the snake and described the snake as ten feet long with a head as large as his fist. He declared that "this is the highlight of my career". Damn, I will really miss him..... and his enthusiasm.
All three of my sons called me today to discuss the "Croc Hunter".
Yes but if your All Blacks lose the RWC, it is a national month of mourning.
What I miss is the loss of perfection. He was a man who had truly mastered his trade. He was perfect in a Zen sense.
As an example, celebrities die and I don't give it much thought but when Phil Hartman was murdered, I felt a great loss. He was perfect at what he did. Nobody will ever be as good.
On a side note, actually larousse is my guardian angel.
On the CBS news, they said that there have only been three recorded deaths by stingray. I am not sure if that is in the whole world or only Australia. I know Australia is surrounded by a lot of nasty fish and stuff. You would think that if that reef were that great of a barrier, it would keep those fish out.
If you have a bar magnet (north pole and south pole) and cut it in two, why can't you get two monopolar magnets? Now, this question may seem strange but it is significant.
The point is that bipolar IS normal and obeys physical laws. So bipolar people are NOT the ones with a disorder - it is the rest of us who have the disorder.
Okay KiwiJ, put me on your ignore list because here goes a t/j
WW is somewhere - supposedly in Mexico with SIL. SIL's computer does not work for some unexplained reason. Our plan was that WW would talk to the girls on Skype or MSN any time she wanted so I could be elsewhere. I cannot afford to call or let her call (because I will have pay it) each and every day. Mexico is one of the most expensive countries in the world to call LD. Anyway, WW apparently was in an internet cafe yesterday and started a chat. DDs were upstairs in the shower so I asked WW to wait until I got them. DD1 came down and WW tried to start a voice chat. Long story short, she never could get the PC wherever she was to connect audio/video. DD2 never came downstairs because she was too tired. She really was too. They had gotten up at 2:00 AM that day and, in the afternoon, I got the water slide out and they played until 6:00 PM. They were exhausted.
Anyway, DD1 did not want to come down at first but I told her mommy wanted to talk to her so she went with me. WW tried a few things but we ended up with only text. So I had to sit there and read the Spanish to DD1 (don't know why she wrote in Spanish). DD1 understands Spanish but cannot read it. For our side, I had to sit and type everything DD1 wanted to say. Now, the communication was strictly between DD1 and WW but it just pisses me off that I had to be in the middle. Our deal was that I did not have to hear one word from her and I feel like I have been lied to.
I know it is important that WW talk to the children but I am just mad that I have to be in the middle of it. I was doing so well until that chat and now I am just angry again.
Now she could theoretically be in an internet cafe anywhere including the north of England. Doesn't matter. If she ever comes back, I will check the stamps in her passport and I have already told her to retain her boarding passes.
Why does this bother me so much? I don't know. First I was wondering who else she was chatting to / emailing. That never occurred to me until she contacted us by MSN. I had also been every single second with the girls all afternoon along with their three friends and could not attend DD2 to get her ready for bed because I was stuck on the computer on the chat. We were almost out of milk and water in the house but I could not go to the store. By the time I got upstairs, DD2 was sound asleep and had not had any dinner or milk.
So even from a distance, WW is still affecting my life. She continues to make her problems my problems. If she does this again, I'll just leave DD1 at the keyboard and WW can sit for however long that takes. I won't be bothered.
Pio is ok that you t/j, a privilege for creating this thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Somewhere in your past thread, CCV* mentioned to you that you were giving too much and you resented it when your efforts were never enough.
I think you are a fantastic partner and father and you give your time and effort to satisfy the needs of your family, 'to make them happy'.
Unfortunately you can't give and give to someone that is not playing with the same concept than you and only intends to take and take without regards to your needs, time, etc.
I think you are getting close to reach a healthy balance between what are your legitime responsabilities and what borders unhealthy indulgence towards G.
I think it's perfectly ok if you tell G at what time she can contact the girls and set limits or conditions that better suit your schedule.
Sometimes we think the more we give the more we will be loved, sadly it doesn't work that way.
I have used the paying version of Skype, you call from your pc to a phone number in Mx. It's very cheap and very practical, the number you call doesn't have to be online and the sound is very good.
I was at my sister's house this weekend and she offered me some popcorn, I had to check the 'consume before' date of the envelope before accepting them. You have stolen my inocence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
::::::::::::
Talking of diccionaries I'm starting to read 'The Professor and the Madman' about the making of the Oxford English Dictionary, very interesting. As good English book, there is a murder... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd if I'm your alter ego and Kiwi is all of us, who am I?
Talking of alter egos, Todd, have you read Fernando Pessoa, one of his heteronims was Ricardo Reis, he created his biography as a Brazilian enginer*.
I have never used the paying version of Skype. I will think about that. My fear is that if I use it right now, DD1 might spend day and night on it and it would still end up costing a fortune. Tonight I think DD1 needs to hear mommy's voice so I'll just pay for the call. or maybe I could use the pay version but just not keep it running all the time. I tend to keep Skype and MSN always logged on 24/7. I guess I don't need to.
I am concerned that I have a lot of anger right now and I want to deal with it before gemela comes back (assuming she does). I just need my space.
I remember a few years ago that scientists may have discovered a magnetic monopole (and not by indirect evidence). Does anyone else remember that?
Where did you get that crackpot idea?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, he started the whole t/j thing.
Pio, so poor little helpless gemela is still being bailed out by you again. No consequences to her selfishness, yet again. Unfortunately, any consequences would have been suffered by you in having to deal with a distraught DD1.
Tell her to organise the calling properly. I mean that, tell her, don't ask her, tell her.
I hope you can find a way to talk to the girls either on MSN or SKYPE. I was not happy last night that I had to sit there and type for DD1 and read to her. You know she doesn't read Spanish. She did okay when you wrote in English. If this is the only way you can communicate, I will just let DD1 sit at the keyboard from now on and she can type. I told you when you left that I do not want to have any communication with you. I know you were only communicating with DD1 but putting me in the middle of it pretty much ruined my night.
I want you to communicate with the girls whenever you want but I don't want to see or hear one word from you. Please try and respect that.
Where is Superman? Come to think of it, if he is faster than a speeding bullet, that MIGHT explain... oh, never mind.
I am certain he is off trying to prove the existence of the magnetic monopole.
I am here Jimmy Olson. Monopoles, eh? There is so much in physics that people become convinced exists when the very existence was proposed only as a possible theory based on someone's research. Black holes are the leading example of this. Guess that is what makes it so fascinating. I doubt that monopoles exist. Everywhere one looks, including subatomic structures, one finds not just magnets with both poles, but electromagnets. Electromagnetism is the key to the universe I believe. It is too prevalent not to be.
Besides, I used my x-ray vision in conjunction with my microscopic vision and could find no monos.
Black holes do exist and can be seen with the naked eye. Look up at the sky at night. Most of it is black. In fact there are more black holes than there are stars which proves that the universe is far older than previously thought.
I remember a research paper presented once where the scientists had found a perfect correlation for their research. They had used a 19th order polynominal fit for their 20 data points. That cracks me up. I bet you are rolling on the floor too. The results were so startling that they went immediately to print.
Just for completeness, these are the other two emails I have sent to WW since I got back.
#1 (To SIL's OM) Please tell gemela that we are back in the house in Saudi and we are all tired but okay.
I also wanted to mention to you that I did tell gemela before she left that I would cover her expenses but I will not pay for her to go shopping in Mexico. If she decides she wants to go shopping, she should get a job and make money to pay for them. Do not let her go out and spend a lot of money and expect me to just write a check.
#2 British Airways has a new and very stricy handbaggage policy in London. Neither one of your pink bags will be allowed as carry-on between London and Bahrain. BA might let you travel to London with them but they will not let you leave London with them. I know this for a fact because I was just there. They have a very strict size limit and they force you to prove that your bags will fit in their measuring cage. If they don't fit, you can't take them as carry-on.
In that case, you are forced to go through immigration and go to the ticketing check-in and check your bags or else simply throw your bags in the garbage bin right there at security. They have zero tolerance. I know how you are and how you think you can always bend the rules.
Your options are:
1) leave those bags in Mexico. 2) empty the bags and mail them back to the house here 3) wrap them up in something to protect them and check them in Mexico
If you try to hand carry them and you are forced to go through immigration in London and check them, I can promise you that there is not enough time to make your flight. You will be forced to stay in London a day or more until you can get another flight. Now, I will repeat this - if you spend so much as one night in London, that is an automatic divorce. So you need to ask yourself the question how much those pink bags mean to you. Are they worth your marriage?
As an example, I had DD1's mochila almost empty and it failed the handbag test because of the wheels. They made the bag 2 cm too deep. The maximum depth of the bag can be no more than 14 cm. You can check the BA website for all the dimensions but take my word that your bags will not pass. BA has staff doing nothing more than checking the size of the bag. There is no way to avoid them. You also will only be allowed one carryon bag from London to Bahrain. Two bags are no longer allowed in London.
I don't know if you are planning to come back here or not but if you do, do NOT carry those bags.
You are talking about procedures for WW to follow when she flies back to SA. Shouldn't you just let the eventuality of WW coming back to SA be an unknown? Also, the tone of the email is unnecessarily dictatorial. What was your goal?
I think WW will come back to SA even if it is just to POJA a divorce. I don't think she will just call up one day and say we'll never see her again. Our agreement is that she come back to SA so that we can decide what we want to do. Coming back to SA does not imply she is returning to the M.
I know WW very well. She has a large carry-on, a cosmetic bag and a large purse. I know that she will think that all she has to do is bat her eyelashes and BA will waive their guidelines for her. They won't. WW won't believe that.
The BA policy is insane and their implementation is unworkable. People are faced with the choice of losing their bags or missing their plane. WW would never part with anything so would choose to miss the plane. That leaves her unaccounted for in the UK. Who would she call? Let me guess.
I agree the tone is harsh which is why I wanted to be honest and post it. I agree that these emails and communications could influence her decision to return to the M. I don't care. I don't really think I want her back. Maybe that is why the tone is so harsh. I don't know. She did email back and asked me to confirm "you mean neither one of my bags can go?". I replied that was correct.
I do think I am being consistent. At no time am I leading her to believe she is going to find yellow ribbons on the tree out front. I have just been asking myself the question if I am happier with her our without her. These last few days back home without her have been much better than what I had before we left for vacation. I was miserable before. Now I am lonely but the pain is gone. I also think I would still be lonely if WW were here. Maybe I am moving on?
People are faced with the choice of losing their bags or missing their plane. WW would never part with anything so would choose to miss the plane. That leaves her unaccounted for in the UK. Who would she call? Let me guess.
Reread your last post. Do you see contradictions? If not, read it again. You go to great lengths to say you don't care and you may be better off without her, then you said she would try to get her bags through and it would lead to WW calling OM? So? Either you care or you don't. Decide which it is.
Quote
I agree the tone is harsh which is why I wanted to be honest and post it. I agree that these emails and communications could influence her decision to return to the M. I don't care. I don't really think I want her back. Maybe that is why the tone is so harsh. I don't know. She did email back and asked me to confirm "you mean neither one of my bags can go?". I replied that was correct.
"I don't care."
"I don't really think I want her back."
"I don't know."
These three sentences really stood out to me. And look, it is okay to be confused. You've been separated how many days? Four? Five? Just don't fool yourself about what you want, or don't want. Strive for consistency regardless of your answer. And don't answer the question until your emotions have caught up with your logic.
Quote
I have just been asking myself the question if I am happier with her our without her. These last few days back home without her have been much better than what I had before we left for vacation. I was miserable before. Now I am lonely but the pain is gone. I also think I would still be lonely if WW were here. Maybe I am moving on?
Maybe you are circling the landing field but it is too soon to conclude that you are moving on. My friend, don't confuse intellect with emotional intelligence. You cannot think your way through and out of this. You must get in touch with your emotions. Again, it is unrealistic to expect that you would have figured things out already. Stuff your ego about when WW is coming back or how long she can hold out without you and live through this mess. Give it time.
I agree. I don't know. I know I am very angry right now about it all. Because Heizenberg is so clearly wielding his infuence here, I don't want to end up divorced on a technicality. I want to wait until WW return to SA and we sit down and talk to make that decision. Unfortunately her having a sleepover in the UK would make the issue moot. If she does stop in the UK, divorce is absolute. Knowing WW as I know her, if she were faced with the decision to lose her cosmetics bag, she would choose the bag.
I think what someone said earlier about PTSD is very likely. That is why I want this time. I want to limit communication with WW. Today I promised DD1 that she could call WW. This evening I dialed the phone and handed it to DD1 and went upstairs. It was great. I felt nothing. That is what I want. I don't know what happened but DD1 hung up the phone at some point and came upstairs. I asked her why the call was so short. She said she didn't want to talk to mommy any more. WW called back and I told DD1 to answer. I didn't ask what was said but I asked if everything was okay. DD1 said mommy just wanted to say goodbye. I left it at that. On the first call I am guessing that DD1 hung up before WW had the chance to say goodbye.
Okay, now I'll say I don't know. Given that DD1 is emotional and her reaction in Miami to WW going to Mexico, and such a short conversation, what is going on? Does DD1 feel animosity towards WW for not being home? Here's a potential problem you face. WW could feel that she is losing the love of DD's and want to hurry back home to her family. Well, you are part of the family and although you won't be able to ascertain why she comes back, wouldn't you rather she come back to the marriage which implies the family? Don't you want her to want and love you again?
I am not suggesting that I have a solution set for you. Perhaps encourage DD1 to engage in conversation more with WW. Also, put DD2 on the phone. Allow WW to at least be secure that DD's still love her.
I am encouraging them to talk. I dialed the phone remember? And I do push DD2 to talk but she has always been "hi/bye".
Hey, different subject. DD1 just got up and said she was hungry. I told her she would have breakfast in another 8 hours but she just won't listen. So now I have to give her a snack. My question is how long should I put the banana and cheese sandwich in the microwave to soften the cheese enough so that the raisinettes and M&M's won't fall out? I'm kind of in a hurry on this one.
Assuming your wattage is around 1Kw, 43 seconds should do it. Unless M&M's have been kept in the freezer, as they should.
And yes, I remember that you dialed the number. But, you know full well that your body language and reactions suggest a lot to DD's. Encourage them to talk to Mommy; that's all I am saying.
I hope you can decide what you want before she comes home. If you decide to try to work on the marriage, you have to give her something to want to come back to. I can understand your anger and your disgust. But, I can't imagine being in her place and trying to reconcile. I can't.
I'm not a religious follower of the Harleys, though I think that some of their principals saved my marriage. I felt that our problems were more my H's fault than mine. I was angry and resentful and as long as I stayed in that state, we were going nowhere. I finally sucked it up and decided that I would swallow my pride and my anger and refuse to engage in our nasty interactions with each other. And I don't even think he noticed what was happening, but gradually, he started changing in how he dealt with me and how he treated me. We've had some backslides -- some big ones. But, I finally reached a point after a big relapse, where I decided that I would love him completely and without reservation, whether it was returned or not. And we turned a corner. And I was finally able to see clearly what I'd done in the past to contribute to the breakdown of our relationship.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that because Gemela doesn't seem to have the insight to know how to approach this or fix this and may also have too much pride or a big fear of rejection and of being chastised, that you may have to be the one to show her the way and give her an opening. Based on what you've said here and the bit I've read of her posts, I do think there's some hope for you two. But, I think you're starting nearly from scratch and you have an entire relationship to build from nothing -- maybe even a deficit. She's probably completely broken, like a recruit at bootcamp. She's about to lose everything, including her kids. She sounds really stubborn and so are you. I don't know if she loves you at all. If she doesn't, she might be able to fall in love with you. But, not like this.
I think you need this time apart to reevaluate and try to decide if it's worth the huge effort to continue this marriage. Try to be objective about Gemela. If you were single and met her again, could you fall in love with her? Can you help her to get past her insecurities and find some contentment? She must've been unhappy to get involved with poolboy. Why was she so unhappy? Has she ever been happy? Can you help her to deal with her issues and find some contentment in life and some happiness with you?
And what's best for your girls? I'm not saying you should stay married for them alone. But, they are a big factor. And if you do stay married, you two owe it to them and yourselves to try to have a decent relationship. You're an analytical guy. Try to step back from the emotion and see things more realistically. Gemela is a person who needs help. She's can't figure this out on her own. And IMO, the way you're treating her is just making her feel worse. Do you really want her to come home defeated with her tail between her legs or do you want her to come home to try to find a way to love you and want to be with you?
You've already said that she's a child in many ways. It seems like she could grow up if she's not shamed into being more of a child than she already is. Maybe her affair was a bit of a rebellion against you and trying to feel like a grownup woman who was more mature than he was. Try to figure out why she did it and what was lacking. And see if you have it in your heart to help her, because it sure sounds like she needs it.
The bags: I'd be much shorter & be clear the consequences are hers to deal with.
Perhaps this: Your bags are too big & will not get through baggage check. There is no getting around this. You'll have to dump your bags to get on the plane.
No more than that. What she chooses to do will be hers to live with. You make your decisions based on her behavior.
In reading here I think the one thing I discovered about my not confirming then exposing ex's affair is that I wanted him to want me enough to come back. He didn't. Would it have been different had I confirmed & exposed? Who knows. What I knew & clearly felt was he didn't love me enough to let go the lure of a new life with a new woman & wanted out.
We talked about there being another person in his life. Denied. I told him the reasons he'd need to give her up if there was to be hope for our marriage. The decision was his to make.
Pio, if you really want no contact...make it so. It seems like you're waffling, trying to get her to see what she's done, it's effects & to let reason guide her. We all know there's no reason involved with WS. They are selfish to the core & what they want guides them.
If you want her to want you I hope she does. If you want to D I hope that goes smoothly for you. Time & patience with yourself. It takes time to sort through the mess the WS has created & know what's best for you.
Ah yes. Every BS's dream rarely grounded in reality. Get em back any way you can and then at least you have something to work with. Sad but true. Worked for me.
Oh, I got him back for more than a year bigkahuna. I'm not really sure why he did stay because he was unwilling to work at MC, unwilling to go to IC, didn't want to participate with the MB materials or any others I suggested. I truly believe he expected love for me to jump back into his heart. He doesn't believe love is a verb. He's more in the "love is a feeling" group.
In an aniversary card he gave me during our year of recovery he said he appreciated all the effort I made to make things comfortable for him. Made me cry for a variety of reasons.
He really did have one foot out the door & his head & heart were there too.
I think you are about 90% right. My M and my relationship is definitely dead but I feel that is a good thing and not a bad thing. Creating a new relationship from scratch rather than trying to put bandaids on an old one is where we would be.
I have tried to give gemela a safe place to be for a year. I have said this before but sometimes I think I may have been too nice to her. There was never any real downside to her A behavior for her. She never had anything to lose. That has taken its toll on me. I don't hate gemela in the least but I would say I am as close to indifference as I could ever get.
I have been reading Pittman and it seems to me that the A was a response to miving to Saudi. Gemela has self-esteem issues that were always answered by being in Dubai. Saudi gave her no real outlet to feed her need until she ran across the attention of a pool boy. Okay that's it for my psychoanalysis. The anatomy of her A is simple. The underlying cause is not.
I asked for five months of separation initially and she said she wanted to come back before Halloween. We settled on 6 weeks. I do want that time alone to think. The DDs are doing fine. Yes they miss mom but only around bedtime. Most of the day I can't see that it affects them that much although I am sure it is there somewhere.
Unless gemela starts contact again or, worse yet, flys off to the UK for a fu**fest (bigger's word), I hope I will be open minded. I don't want to make a final decision until she comes back for the sake of the girls.
I dod want NC and I don't think I am vacillating. I had a few technical matters to set straight before shtting down completely. I have travelled more than 2 million airmiles in my career and I have never ever seen anything like what is going on in Heathrow terminal 4 right now. I don't think there are any other matters to discuss with gemela now.
I know I made mistakes in our M. I guess my biggest mistake was always trying to make her happy. If you read my original thread, you know what I mean by that. The good of all this is that I have a great relationship with my DDs and it is getting better all the time. They know they can trust me to take care of them and love them. Sometimes I am the meanest dad in the world. Last night, for example, I was a terrible dad because I did not let them have a sleepover. They make decisions with their friends and then just expect us parents to make it happen. When we don't, we are mean and nasty. Five minutes later I was the best dad in the world though. Kids.
Basically I have kept this M going or together for a year all on my own. I am willing to keep trying but not on my own. If gemela is not willing to step up to the plate, I'll call the game.
BTW I just want to thank believer for pushing me to the decision to make the separation. As a BS, that is a fear. Now I realize there was never anything to fear. I am glad we waited to separate and that we did not do it at first. I am totally happy that i am where I am at the moment.
Can I ask why there is a third star on the thread. Will the responsible party please remove it? If you leave that third star there, ToddAC will be expecting a free continental breakfast every morning and I don't have the budget for it.
Can I ask why there is a third star on the thread. Will the responsible party please remove it? If you leave that third star there, ToddAC will be expecting a free continental breakfast every morning and I don't have the budget for it.
You can bet your sweet bippie that I didn't put it there. I tried to remove a star on Sunday but no go.
Pio - I hope that you don't send Gemela bundles of money. I would send her enough to live comfortably on (my roommates send $60.00 a week for a family of 4), but not enough to live lavishly. Your funds should be saved for the family.
You are bitter and angry...sucked dry...you definitely need the time apart to prove to yourself that no matter what, you can be happy and be a single parent if that is what it comes to...once you are at peace with that and with the fact that you can decide whether or not you want this M and have equal right to make that decision as much as G ...only then will you be able to move on to whatever the next step is...
From all of your history and posts I truly feel like despite your "indifference" you still have feelings for G...I think it is your pride and stubborness that cause you havock in your decision making...I think that G needs lots of TLC, nurturing and affirmation of her beauty and femininity...maybe this is the characteristic of hers that she feels is most positive...maybe there are other characteristics that you could affirm to minimize her focus on the material and superficial???? I don't know I am just throwing this out there. Did you ever do the EN questionaire? What were G's greatest needs? Have you focused on them? Worked on the love bank etc?
I think you have a bit of stormtrooper myself friend...
As usual, believer makes a good point. You don't want WW's standard of living to fall off a cliff and for her to come back to SA for purely economic reasons and given her standard of living for the last x years, she should be given the opportunity to continue that, but on economic equivalent terms in Mexico.
Geez, that's a long sentence. I must watch my syntax.
There is no question I am a stormtrooper. I have this way about me. I don't know what it is. Even in my work - when there a problems, people come to me rather than the manager. I can't explain why. Years ago I was struggling with my motivation and I was about to move from Dubai to Muscat. I really felt I had nothing left within me. I struggled with this for a while and I reasoned out a strategy that, at the time, I named "excellence theory" and I have never renamed it. It just became me or I became it. Since that time, I have always been the "go to" guy no matter where I was or what job I had. It is still that way but now it is inconvenient.
I am also a "dream warrior" and have been since I was about 31 or 32 years old. It took me about a year to become one but it has stuck.
Yes I agree I have feelings for gemela. If I did not, I wouldn't be angry. I know I am angry because I still have a dog in this fight.
I have not read HNHN yet. I am finishing off Pittman and going to TRLT and FBTRLT. I read them years ago but I want to read them again. Then I will go to HNHN. As long as gemela is in Mexico, HNHN is not a priority.
I don't think stubborn is a good word for me. If I am wrong, I am the first to admit it. I think steadfast is a better fit but that is just my opinion. If I believe a goal is worthy, (to quote Mr. T) I pity the fool who gets in my way. I also pick my battles.
I have never tried to be her father. I just have a strong personality. If I were her father, I would have cheated on gemela with everything female that walked on two legs. Who knows how many affairs he had? That was just his way of life.
I was my father's little princess - my childhood was one privilege after another. I went straight from home the day I got married to my own home with Rob. I've probably spent one night in my whole life away from family. It was when I was with my parents visiting Australia. They were on the plane before mine, my flight was cancelled and I spent the night in Sydney on my own.
When Rob threatened divorce just after d-day three years ago he told me there was NO way I would ever survive on my own. I didn't think so either. I've never had to test that. It probably would have done me a heck of a lot of good to see if I really could stand on my two feet. Please don't misunderstand my meaning either. I DID NOT stay with R because I didn't think I could make it on my own. I stayed with R because I wanted desperately to make my marriage work.
It could be the making of g to finally have to clean up her own messes.
Well my money would be on Myrta simply by virtue of the fact that KiwiJ would feel compelled to play by the Marques of Queensbury rules. Myrta, being PR, would have no such limitation.
Well my money would be on Myrta simply by virtue of the fact that KiwiJ would feel compelled to play by the Marques of Queensbury rules. Myrta, being PR, would have no such limitation.
Hey! are you saying that PR's don't follow the rules?
If the universe of universe can be desplutonizade in one day I can have my own star.
Now, Continental breakfast is not that expensive, in which expensive hotel you are going to have to pay it, that's another story, but sooner or later that EA of yours with T would have costed you something.
(Now I have to find a way to take away the five stars of Regreted thread, I was playing.)
I think Larousse is the name of the editor.compilator of the French dictionary that later became and publishing house of dictionaries and enciclopedies but not sure. I chose it because in front of my eyes there is a shelf with dictionaries two of them with big Larousse letters. It was the easiest way to remember my id here.
I could have choosen Webster's but as you have noticed I seldom open it.
Bad Kiwi, let me find a way to add five stars to your bird name. What about a tiara with five fake gold stars for your next night out ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Well larousse, I hop regreted calls you because she is killing any chance she has of saving her M. Last I heard BH left in the rain. He is not exactly a sympathetic character - wife beater and all - but it is regreted's decision to want the M or not. Right now she is killing it.
In my case and for the last six months, it hasn't been the A that has been the problem. The problem has been the dishonesty. As a BS, I cannot put the A in the past as long as WW continues to lie about it.
I cannot imagine how her H would react to the truth. I would definitely recommend she have that conversation in front of a witness - maybe a priest in the church. I just don't know but she will never be able to hide this and have a viable marriage IMO.
I feel so bad for her Pio. She hasn't call. I really don't understand why she can't connect the dots of the origin of the problem. Fog I guess and rationalization.
I admire that you can help her even if the problems she's facing are so close to your past, I hope, situation.
I try to help her because she asked. I still remember that first desperate day when she was almost suicidal, it was about 1:00AM for her and nobody was on the board. I answered her in Spanglish and she opened up the floodgates.
I have never really been happy when she has tried to give me advice about my sitch but I just ignore it for obvious reasons.
On the other hand, nobody is perfect. If I were to condemn her for what she has done, I might as well forget trying to save my own marriage.
What I wish would happen is that she convince her BH to post here or seek help elsewhere. I think he does want the M but neither one of them knows how to save it.
On the other hand, nobody is perfect. If I were to condemn her for what she has done, I might as well forget trying to save my own marriage.
It's great that you are able to have such clarity and compassion. I truly believe in 'recovery' and change. Some times it takes longer I guess.
It's frightening to think how far things will have to go in her life, to make her understand the origin of at least one part of the present problems. Just like the addiction analogy, the 12 steps groups say that people usually doesn't stop an addiction until they get to the bottom. Glup. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
In my case and for the last six months, it hasn't been the A that has been the problem. The problem has been the dishonesty. As a BS, I cannot put the A in the past as long as WW continues to lie about it.
sorry for not answering your questions more directly, let's see...
I'm Mexican, born in Mexico, ancestors from Mexico and England (sorry Pio) female, 39 years old. Glup.
I studied French some years and I worked for a French institution some years ago, here in Mexico.
My true love is Brazilian Portuguese (linguistic affair?)
I studied Jornalism and Hispanic Literature. I had a scholarship in Creative Writing and I work as a free lance most of the time in things related to literature and culture in Mx.
I have lived or stayed, 3 months in Paris, half a year in Berlin and one year in Rio de Janeiro.
Todd feel free to ask me what ever you want, if I can't answer we can always use Google or the Yellow pages. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm confused too and I have not the excuse of the microwave shower... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
If I remember correctly the racial clasification took 'scientific' force with a French of course, Augusto Comte and the Positivism and the first le Musée de l'Homme.
Since decades US INI* knows the inacurracy of their clasification but it affects all the 'races' so I don't feel there is a particular meaness, more a general laissiness, lol. It's is easier for them that way. Hispanic is not a term so foreing for us, actually we study Hispanic literature to study all the literature writen in Spanish. I think the ones that really get ofended by it are the Spanish, they, happy to be part of Europe, almost with a recovered economy, hate to be put in the same 'racial' group that latins. Lol.
Genetic has established that racial clasification is not only historically and culturally inacurate but scientifically fraudulent.
I get your posts via email so I only see the original post. Edits are not sent. So if you edit a post, I won't know that unless you tell me to go look at it in the forum and I read through the thread. Just an FYI.
For example, read my post ^up^ made zero sense. I read the thread again and now I understand.
Huh, you don't even give us the benefit of reading our erudite outpourings on real MB?
Larousse, I'm slapping my head right now. I have the Larousse Dictionary of Classical Mythology.
BTW, I've also read the book about the making of the OED (Oxford English Dictionary for anyone who thinks there is another dictionary). It's a really amazing story isn't it?
for us, Latins, Hispanic is not an American invension in the sense that we have used that term 'hispánico' to describe primarly all that has a Spanish origin: like our language, certain arquitecture, laws. Hispanic is not a word that we don't use. It's acurate when used to describe people that speak Spanish, it's not the name of a race and sometimes it's undertood as that because the confused nature of Inmigration office clasification.
Hispanic is a term never used in NZ. The only Spanish speaking people I've ever met have been from South America. I've never met a Mexican or a Puerto Rican in my life. They just don't seem to come down here.
Birdie, do you need help with the slapping? nah, nah, nah, nah.
Great book Kiwi. So human.
Dear Pio, my lack of abilities writing in English and my unmicrowave brain but as equal fried brain, forces me to edit several times, so, I would feel awful guilty to bother you to tell you inform you that I corrected 49 of 50 words I write.
Add to that my modem conection. If I wait until I correct all before to post, I would lost almost all my posts.
Right on the employment description, for a while, like ten years I had office and horaries. Hard to believe but true.
I believe the most accurate term for people from the USA in Latin America is "gringo". In Mexico, this is a derrogatory term. In South America, it is commonly used but it is not considered an insult. Americano does not really work because it could apply to anyone in North, Central and South America. Norte Americano does not work because it applies to Canada, the USA and Mexico.
I also found great prejudice with Espanol in Mexico. Many Mexicans that have Spanish ancestory are extremely proud of it. I even know people sho don't but lie and say they do. The Spanish Mexicans are somehow "better" than the other Mexicans. The Indios or Mestizos get the short end of the stick.
Of course, as we all know, even the "best" Mexican will never be as good as an Argentine...
I do go back and reread the thread but only about twice a day (morning and night). If you really need my attention, make a new post and tell me to go back and read your edit. I get the emails almost instantaneously.
For the Spanish people gringo is a foreinger and for other countries in Latinamerica, gringo is also a blonde person.
There is some controvers also about talking of other origins not only Spanish but I think we are a mixed culture, more or less mixed in some areas than others.
Mexico city has now a wide Argentinan colony and they are accepted, some of them even laugh of themselves, we laugh about them a lot and now is normal to interact with them. We are very tolerant in the long run, althought I know that sometimes there is racism.
Argentines are Italians who speak Spanish, buy their clothes in Brooks Brothers, eat like the French, swear like the Germans, make sausage like the Poles, and are really the Lost Tribe of North Americans.
Story I heard was the gringo came from "green go" referring to the color of the Yankees' uniforms (not the baseball team). Oh! Yankee is a good term (from a Mexican's POV) too although it would personally insult me.
I also heard that the state of Oregon got its name because the conquistadors found it inhabited by people with big ears (yes I heard that).
I heard that Cuernavaca was renamed by the Spanish because they could not pronounce the true name and that was as close as they could get.
I got confused on something during my last trip to the USA. They are always inventing new things. I know that 2.47105381 acres = 1 hectare and that 4 pecks = 1 bushel and that 8 furlongs = 1 mile and that 1 ounce = 16 drams.
Where I need clarification is how many super rolls = 1 regular roll and how many jumbo rolls = 1 super roll. Also, will a jumbo roll actually fit on a holder?
Which weighs more - A pound of silver or a pound of feathers?
Which weighs less - A pound of aluminum in 1942 or a pound of aluminum in 1982?
Bigkahuna, yes, I have to think the affair continued or at least they were in contact because they've worked together for years.
I made some attemts to confirm the affair. Some phone calls, following ex, checking cell phone, even checked some credit card bills.
I didn't find anything definitive. ex has some experience in covering his tracks. He's ex Special Forces with a mind set to deny. I think the gf was part of his wanting out. He wanted a new life. When he moved out he took nothing. I had to ask him to clear his clothes from the bedroom. When I went with my boys to his apartment for the first he answered the door with an excited look asking me if I wanted a beer.
We married when he was 21 I was 26. He went from his FOO to the army to married to me in the span of a year. There were big FOO issues I was unaware of at the time we married. ex didn't have normal teen, young man years & I think this played a big role in the demise of our marriage. Remember, it takes two to want the marriage to succeed & two to do the work. That was not the case in our M.
Remember it is the weekend here is Saudi Arabia so I am not fast at email. I'll try to check it more often for you, okay? And remember we made a deal a long time ago. I am your memory in case you need it.
BTW, have you ever heard of a "nams"? Sounds a bit "Dutch" to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Where I need clarification is how many super rolls = 1 regular roll and how many jumbo rolls = 1 super roll. Also, will a jumbo roll actually fit on a holder?
No. They included the "elongated" holders for about 4 months free with the package of TP....now, if you don't have one of their handy, dandy holders you're SOL. Literally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Dutch? A bit. I'm one of your more typical mongral American types.
Now, Pio with the rolling eys I have to [censored] u me you are an equal opportunity...dis-liker...of many people in additon to the French. Tell me, is the wooden shoes?
No I have nothing against the Dutch. I have had some of my best times in Amsterdam and Den Haag. (and not because of the "coffee" houses or the night life - which I have never tried). The Dutch don't take themselves too seriously.
Mongrel? I'm more of a mutt myself. Not as much fight in me any more.
No. I'll stick to hating the French. That is a full time job in and of itself.
Gouda is good, bree is bad.
Come to think of it, I think the French cheeses typify the French themselves. Bree, Camembert ... has no substance and smells funny. I think that pretty well sums them up.
Last night (tonight?) when I got home, DDs wanted to play on the waterslide with the neighbors. I inflated it and they were having a good time. About 6:00PM I was outside supervising and got a call from SIL telling me WW was on MSN and wanted to talk to the DDs. I tried to get DD1 to come in but she wanted to keep playing and insisted she was tired of talking to mommy. Well we POJA'ed a bit and I got her inside, dried and dressed and then got on the computer to try to connect on MSN again. Same problem. After about 5 minutes of this I just wrote WW that I would call SIL's house because I was not going to spend another night fighting with her computer problem.
It took a few minutes to get DD1 downstairs so, in the interim, I signed up for Skypeout and called using Skype rather than the phone. I got connected and then had to fight with DD1 to get her on the phone. DD2 talked for a couple of minutes and then went upstairs to play Gameboy. DD1 was in tears and begging not to talk to mommy because she said it would make her sad.
I finally got DD1 to get on the line with WW and then I went upstairs but I could easily hear DD1 begging WW to come home. I don't know what WW said. After DD1 hung up with WW I tried to talk to her but she was really upset and pushing me away. I made her go to her room. After a while I went in and asked if she wanted dinner so we went downstairs and she ate something and then we went up and she read me a book.
She is fine when she doesn't talk to WW. I understand that she misses WW and it makes me sad to see her sad. What occurred to me is that WW has a nine minute phone call with DD1 and then is off to eat panuchos. Meanwhile I have to deal with the fallout for the next hour. I don't see any other way but I think I will have to limit the calls to a couple of times a week. I can't see DD1 going through that every day.
Well today (tomorrow?) we are going bowling and the DDs are going to try out their new bowling balls. We are so excited! That's all they have been asking about all night. BTW did I mention that I carried two bowling balls back to Saudi from the USA? You should have seen the looks at security. The only worse time was when the cat got X-rayed.
The cat is a true story BTW. Back in 1991 I had a $3,000 cat that I bought for $15. I was moving from London to Abu Dhabi and put my cat in a carrier to check on the plane. I got to Heathrow Terminal 3 because I was flying Gulf Air and before the ticketing, everything gets X-rayed. Well the security guy was at somewhat of a loss but he made me put the cat on the belt and it goes into the X-ray machine. He didn't tell the screener at the monitor what it was. Well the screener sees something I am sure she has never seen before so she stops the carrier in the X-raye and just stares at it. She still can't figure it out so she ups the dosage - nothing. She throws it up to full power and I am starting to get worried because the cat has been in there over a minute. I look at the screen and I see this fuzzy shape of a cat and it looks like every single hair is standing out. Finally she looks at the other guy and he just says "it's a cat". Well finally my cat comes out of the machine and it's eyes are glazed over, it's whiskers are all curled up and it is smoking - yes - smoking.
My cat was worthless BTW. The $3000 is what I had to pay in quarantine fees to get it into the UK.
Now, to make matters worse, there were two Gulf Air flights leaving that morning about an hour apart. The check-in lady told me she wanted to keep the cat up there until the first plane had departed so that there was no confusion. So I sat with my toasted cat for two hours until the first plane had gone and then they sent her down the chute. I get to Abu Dhabi and no cat. The first plane had been delayed and - yes - my cat go on the wrong plane and, in a strange twist of irony (I'm not joking) went to QATar and then on to MusCAT. Imagine that. Well I finally got the cat in Abu Dhabi much later that same day and it was near death. Cat survived though and, after a week of nursing it, it was none-the-worse for wear.
.....I am still trying to 'catch up'....so I am sorry but not quite sure what everybody is up to yet...and hope that no one is in 'crisis'.....if so...sorry for the t/j
...but you'll soon know why...been busy painting and recuperating from it!
...in the meantime....just posted the following for comments in my PLAN B thread (which has a very low traffic....in no time it ends up on page 10!).....
...so I thought I would pass it by this group for comments.... the more the merrier!
Quote
Update, and would appreciate comments as well. A quick summary: WS and I do not have anything legal in place. I decided to stay in our home and WS took an apt. that we owe and used to rent out about 15 mins away. Our 'home' is actually made up of several apts. I occupy the main floor with basement and yard, but we also have a couple of apt. just above that we rent out. So, WS and I are co-owners of the property.
WS 'used' to be the handyman and did the maintenance, and right now the tenants do call HIM directly for any 'handyman' work they need done in their apts, as usual. However, since I am in PLAN B I am slowly taking over the 'maintenance' duties related to the main floor I occupy (both inside and outside). The three outside galleries the property has have been neglected since WS moved out last summer...so I was determined to do something about that this year before the summer ended. This past weekend I did about 4-5 hrs of scrapping off the old paint and about 2-3 hrs of painting.... and I still haven't finished! But I was quite proud of myself...even an unidentified neighbour across the street gave me a 'thumbs up' when I finally ended my day at 7pm although I paid dearly these last two days as I did not take the time to warm my 'muscles' before....and took them a bit by surprise....
Obviously, during the 'switch' of our boys, WW noticed... and I guess must have been somewhat surprised.....I was 'infringing' on his handywork duties.... (although had he wanted to do something about it WS had all of last summer and this summer - until now - Sept!)
He left me a message telling me that, apparently, one of our tenants needed some electrical work done upstairs... and in the meantime....did I want him to share and help with the painting of the galleries?
I am in PLAN B... but he is still co-owner and is responsible for the maintenance of the property as an investment.... I think I will take him up on the offer.
Does anyone see any problems with this?.....
Just for your information....my WS would very much like to see the two of us do 'friendly co-parenting'..... and hopes that 'time' will do the trick.....and not have to give up OW!
My position is actually the opposite...as you know.... as long as OW is in the picture.... I am in PLAN B and am slowly learning how to manage 'without him'.....and continue to remove myself further and further away from the triangle....
I think the fact that I am learning to be 'independent' even with the handywork....and, since he can now receive emails, my info. messages previously done via phone messages have now switched to email messages only...
...I wonder if WS is starting to realize that....things continue to NOT go as he planned?
..and I have not finished.....
...I have also decided that on OS's 16th birthday this December (he has been asking me when would he be able to just stay with me since WS moved out)....I will give him the choice to reduce going to his dad's place to every other weekend (right now we alternate one week each for both boys)....inspite of it all....I know that WS loves the boys very much.... in fact....if one day the fog lifts... I think that will be the hardest to accept... the enormous damage and sacrifice his 'selfishness' has cost the boys!
...and come next summer.....on the 2-yr anniversary of WS moving out....if I don't have a clear 'sign' from WS that the fog is clearing.... I will be looking into moving into a plan D!
I am glad that he is now on emails. In my short separation, I have found that not even hearing the voice of gemela is a good thing.
I don't see any problem with him doing the painting as long as you are not beside him. Are you planning on alternating shifts so that you have zero contact when he comes over to paint?
On the downside, him painting might make him feel that you still can't get along on your own. So I would think just consider which message you want to send to him. In my way of living life, I would never let gemela touch a brush but, as we all know, I am a bit of a different kind of person. I would do it myself and get a hot tub. Twice the satisfaction.
I don't like reading Plan B threads because I am not in Plan B. cc46 had one and I never read it either. I never feel like I can be of much benefit since I have no experience.
Non-toxic co-parenting is definitely the goal and if you do go the D route, you might even want counseling for that if you cannot do it on your own. I would think though that you would want to draw up a strict set of boundaries that you both can agree to and follow.
Quote
I wonder if WS is starting to realize that....things continue to NOT go as he planned?
This is the only thing that troubles me about your post. If you are in Plan B, you need to stop this kind of thinking. Don't try to manipulate behavior into WH. Make the separation as difficult for him as possible but try to pretend he is dead. Practice that every day. Detach yourself completely from WH. When you do that , you will stop wondering anything about him.
Quote
if one day the fog lifts... I think that will be the hardest to accept... the enormous damage and sacrifice his 'selfishness' has cost the boys!
But what if that doesn't happen? You (like me) want some sort of retribution or vindication. It very likely may never happen even if you do R. What will you do in that case?
It is great that you are in Plan B. I used to fear Plan B but now I embrace it as the very best and purest principle of MB. I am glad that you are able to create a better Plan B - i.e. emails instead of telephone, etc. But that is mechanics.
The true power of Plan B is between your ears. I think that is where you need to spend a lot more effort. Keep in mind, I haven't read your thread. I am only inferring that from your post.
I am glad that he is now on emails. In my short separation, I have found that not even hearing the voice of gemela is a good thing.
Ideally in PLAN B, an 'intermediary would go even farther....they're just hard to come by...
Quote
I don't see any problem with him doing the painting as long as you are not beside him. Are you planning on alternating shifts so that you have zero contact when he comes over to paint?
Except for a a couple of 'unplanned' sightings....I have not 'seen' WS for over a year...... communications between us are limited to the 'boys' and 'finances' (except for a PBL 'reminder' at a one year mark)...I may now have to add 'maintenance' issues until a division of assets legally takes place...so...no....I would not be 'beside' him...
Quote
On the downside, him painting might make him feel that you still can't get along on your own. So I would think just consider which message you want to send to him. In my way of living life, I would never let gemela touch a brush but, as we all know, I am a bit of a different kind of person. I would do it myself and get a hot tub. Twice the satisfaction.
Actually...I think it's more to alleviate his 'guilt' and to have a sense that he is still 'acting responsibly'..... he only jumped on the 'wagon' when he saw that I initiated the 'paint job'.....to the contrary....I think WS may be worried that I will do just fine 'without him'.....
Quote
I don't like reading Plan B threads because I am not in Plan B. cc46 had one and I never read it either. I never feel like I can be of much benefit since I have no experience.
...well...I certainly appreciate your comments....
This is the only thing that troubles me about your post. If you are in Plan B, you need to stop this kind of thinking. Don't try to manipulate behavior into WH. Make the separation as difficult for him as possible but try to pretend he is dead. Practice that every day. Detach yourself completely from WH. When you do that , you will stop wondering anything about him.
Pio....thanks for catching it....you are totally right....I should stop 'thinking' about what WS is 'thinking'..... waste of time... need to focus energy on what I need to do.... it is probably what I did too much of in M..... meaning.... 'reacting' to WS....his moods...his needs.... his wants.... and either 'neglected' or 'avoided'..... taking inventory of ME! This is a BIGGY for me to work on....
But what if that doesn't happen? You (like me) want some sort of retribution or vindication. It very likely may never happen even if you do R. What will you do in that case?
...don't know, Pio...I will have to think about it....
...it's not so much the 'retribution or vindication' aspect of WS's ever realizing this that I think is important... but rather...in case of R...were WS to acknowledge damage.... it may help or motivate WS to 'protect his weaknesses' and in turn 'protect family'... otherwise.... S remains vulnerable to A if 'damage' done as a consequence of A is not recognized but is denied or taken 'lightly'.....
...and if not, a bigger price to pay, is that a WS has to somehow keep believing a 'lie'...making any kind of 'internal' harmony and peace impossible.....
Quote
It is great that you are in Plan B. I used to fear Plan B but now I embrace it as the very best and purest principle of MB. I am glad that you are able to create a better Plan B - i.e. emails instead of telephone, etc. But that is mechanics.
The true power of Plan B is between your ears. I think that is where you need to spend a lot more effort. Keep in mind, I haven't read your thread. I am only inferring that from your post.
...I am 100% with you.....and you are right, I may have a lot to go still....but believe me, Pio, you don't want to read me a year ago.... I was a pathetic paralyzed basketcase....who truly 'tested' some vet's patience......I still can't read 'myself' and don't think I will for awhile, yet.....
Hi B,
Quote
Plan B means no contact. You remember that, right? Stay dark.
and if not, a bigger price to pay, is that a WS has to somehow keep believing a 'lie'...making any kind of 'internal' harmony and peace impossible
Well we all have to cope. If your WS comes back to the M, you can place conditions on it or not. I think you have earned that right. But I don't think you can dictate coping behavior. We are all a little different.
I don't disagree with what you are saying. Yes it is a "would be nice". But at the end of the day I think you just need to let this one go too. JMO. I say that because I struggle with this one too. I don't know where I will fall on this one. Time will definitely tell though.
OK, French bashing can be considered a cultural event. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Which scene? Pahleeze! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Time for bed. I spent a boring evening at an opening watching people not buy my work & it was exhausting. All the smiling, shmoozing, talking about my role model Demi Morre (sp)...
Oh, I get it. I didn't see the movie "Ghost" but I did see "Police Squad" where Priscilla Presley is using the potter's wheel and Leslie Neilson is behind her. I guess the scene in Ghost was similar?
Anyway, interesting little tidbit about OM. He got some weird infection last year, went into the hospital and almost died. Instead of seeing the "white light" like so many purport to do, he saw black demons come up from the floor and drag him down. The scene from Ghost of course.
Oh! THAT scene. I get it now. Why couldn't nams just say that?
This is just off the wall but OM had near death experience. Maybe he wants to get the most out of his life now. Maybe he now has some "special" link to WW who guided him back from the grave? If so, grave mistake.
BTW, don't say too many bad things about Patrick. I think he is from Texas and we don't want to give Melodylane any excuse to post here. So I am going to say Patrick is a national treasure and I know you agree..hint hint.
Have you heard of bioxide of carbone* and the danger of cooking in closed spaces? Crikey, men !
Pio,
I'm so surprised your little girls bowling balls were not considered a threat to Middle East Peace. I hope Skype worked well for you with the phone calls.
Kiwi, I feel completely empowered by distributing 5 golden stars, would you mind to start a thread, so I can put 5 stars and then take them away one by one? Muaaaaah.
I have my heart in my throat or something is squeezing it. Maybe it's that my BF is coming to visit for 8 days from Walker Valley, NY. I have the gut feeling that he's soon going to be XBF to upgrade to a soon to be marital status. Talk about fears, at and age when I could be taking care of teens, I feel like one my self.
Have you heard of bioxide of carbone* and the danger of cooking in closed spaces? Crikey, men !
That might explain it. I am in a very small space and I cooked last night. You are not saying.... OMG, that's why my memory went! bioxide of carbone? Pio, help me out. You are my memory once again.
Oh Tood if I were you I would be very careful at the moment of choosing a memory by proxy, who knows what's stored in [color:"green"]Pio's upper floor ?[/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Oh Tood if I were you I would be very careful at the moment of choosing a proxy memory, who knows what's stored in [color:"green"]Pio's upper floor ?[/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Upper floor?
I am just happy to be mentioned in the same sentence with a man of such intellect.
Methane, natural gas, LPG, Propane, gasoline and any by-product of fossil fuels is a combination of carbon and hydrogen with maybe a few other trace things thrown in. The primary difference being molecular weight. Methane is the smallest and simplest hydrocarbon made up of CH4.
Regardless if the fuel being used, ideally the by-product of combustion (i.e. oxidation) would be CO2 (bioxido de cabron - I mean - carbon) and H20 (water). Now combustion is not always efficient so you may get some CO (carbon monoxide) as well but both CO and CO2 are toxic.
So if you are cooking with gas, wood (cellulose), charcoal, etc. and do not have proper ventilation, the levels of CO2 and CO build up until you are dead from hypoxia.
If you cook with electricity (including microwave), there is no problem because there is no combustion. Interestingly back in the 1970's during that energy crisis, builders went to great effort to make energy efficient homes. I am no expert but one of the factors in house building is air exchange. This, I think, is something like the number of times that the entire volume of air in a house will be replaced by outside air in a 24 hour period or something like that. In the "old" days, houses were not well sealed and had 4 or 5 air exchanges typically. So no matter how much toxin built up in the house, it was replaced with "fresh" air. In the effort to reduce energy costs, air exchange was brought way down. If you don't replace the air, you don't have to heat or cool it so your energy bill is less. This was all well and good except for retired people. Many retired people stayed home. Locked inside all day. Never opened any windows for fear or robbery or worse. They stayed sealed in their very efficient houses - to the point that some started dying from their own breath.
The human body also produces CO2 so if your breath is not replaced with fresh air, you will suffocate yourself. The result was that builders actually had to set a limit and make homes less energy efficient in order to make them safer.
Natural gas, methane, propane, ethane, don't have any oder. So gas companies have to add a sulphur compound (mercaptain) to the gas so you can notice the leak.
Oh, and if you buy a propane grill and decide to convert it to natural gas, it is extremely important that you buy a jet kit for the burner so that you get the correct gas/air ratio. Propane and NG or LPG have different heating values and require different amounts of oxygen for "proper" combustion and the company who makes the grill has jets for each type of gas for any given grill.
I bought a propane grill in Dubai basically because that is all that is sold (imported from USA) but propans is almost impossible to get in Dubai. All they have available is LPG. So I used LPG on my propane gas grill because there was no way to get a replacement jet kit because it odes not occur to them to sell them in Dubai. Result was that I melted the top of my grill. I might as well have used an acetylene torch to cook with. Result would have been about the same.
So if you are in an enclosed space and assuming you are cooking with electricity, the only risk you have is your own exhalation so, in order to be completely safe, just hold your breath indefinitely and you won't expell any CO2.
The human body also produces CO2 so if your breath is not replaced with fresh air, you will suffocate yourself. The result was that builders actually had to set a limit and make homes less energy efficient in order to make them safer.
You are absoltely correct my good buddy. Residential builders should take cues from their commercial counterparts. Even in my backward state, HVAC systems are required to provide a minimim of 20 CFM per person. Obviously, this entails the use of outside air makeup. Then discharge it with treated air through the plenum, and keep it at the required minimum and people are breathing relatively healthy air.
Residential builders OTOH, regard outside air makeup as costly. These are the same builders who construct $600,000 homes with three sides brick. The rear is typically concrete siding, of or similar to the type manufacturered by James Hardie, an Aussie company. For a few thousand more, they could build four sides brick but no, in the wisdom of cutting $600,000 corners, you get three sides brick.
Meanwhile, I cook with electric but I can almost issue a guarantee that the HVAC that treats my room includes meaningless amounts of outside air. Ergo, I am choking on my own CO2.
Might as well clear up one other misconception. My college roommate worked in a steam generation plant. The curious thing was that everywhere you went in this plant, there was a broom. What was odd is that the plant was not that clean. Most people think you can see steam but it is impossible to see steam. If you can see it, it isn't steam - it is water vapor. So if there is a steam leak in the plant, you grab a broom wherever you are and hold the broom out in front of you and start walking toward the nearest exit. If the broom in front of you is suddenly cut in two, you stop, grab another broom and try another direction. So, if you can see it, it is water vapor. If you can't see it, it is steam. So a steam bath isn't really a steam bath.
Also, fog is a colloidal suspension. It is a strange physical state.
"Oh. THAT scene. I get it now. Why couldn't nams just say that? ------------------------------------------------------------ Just a way to get you to stretch your minds beyond the French bashing business onto something with true cultural merit.
Patrick Swazey? EW!
Good morning! BTW
Hello larousse! (nams waves & smiles)
The last sentence of your post is very interesting.
Why do you think your BF may soon become an XBF? The upgarding to marital status has me a bit confussed. Are you saying he may be upgrading to marital status with someone else?
If you are around, I have been thinking about that end-of-season blockbuster and its imminent world premier "One Flew into the Cuckold's Nest". I don't know much about it other than it has an all-star cast. Have you heard any previews?
I guess I don't want to know the ending before I see the picture But I was curious how it started. I understand the picture has not yet been rated. It is not yet clear whether it will get an R rating or not.
Hi guys, I want to ask you something about your male perspective... How a man can be feel that his wifes shows respect? Obviously when I had my A I didnt respect my H... What happen when both spouses are dominant? My H complains about I havent shown respect, and I dont know how I shoul do... Of cours, be faitful, and let him take his own desicions, but what else? Do you know is there is a man here (latin), I wish to ask this to him also... thanks..
Well today we went bowling, we went out to eat because it was near the grovery store, went to the store, went to the pool and now we are making cookies.
I need some help with recipes. The maid can cook but everything is curry and, believe me, you do NOT want to try curry pancakes. So I get the pleasure of feeding two finicky DDs.
Tonight we are making tuna/blueberry muffins with celery sprinkles. I could only use chunk light because solid white is hard to get here. Does anybody have some good recipe ideas for small children?
It has been a long week due to the jet-lag so I have a really big treat in store for myself after the DDs go to sleep. I am going to exfoliate my feet!
I am sorry because I can't answer the question. For me showing your H respect is not this issue. What I am concerned with is that gemela does not respect my feelings. Examples:
She took off one morning to go to the mall and didn't tell me she was going. It obviously upset me. All she had to do was call and tell me she was going to the mall. I felt she should have known that it would have upset me but didn't respect me enough to care.
The morning DD1 was sick and I had to pick her up from school, I called home because WW should have been home. She wasn't. Maid told me she went to an apartment. [I later found out that the maid was trying to say appointment]. Naturally I suspected the worst. Naturally it started a fight. She could have told me she had an appointment. She didn't respect my feelings enough to do it.
IMO you just need to second guess everything you do and try to think about it as how your H will perceive it. If you want to save your M, you are going to be a prisoner for a long time. What I mean by that is all the freedoms you feel are yours - are no longer. You gave up your rights when you had the A and then decided you wanted the M.
For me respect is gemela putting my feelings before hers. That isn't unfair though because I should put her feelings before mine as I need to respect her too.
I don't think I would consider gemela licking my feet as respect. It would probably even be a bit embarassing since I haven't exfoliated yet. I'm glad it worked out for you though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Do you know what your H's EN's are? Gemela doesn't know what mine are. If she made an effort to find out, I would view that as respect.
Maybe if she always walked exactly three feet behind me with her head bowed? Dunno.
One thing that annoys the heck out of me is that she always asks me what we should have for lunch the next day. She gets mad if I don't participate. She just cannot think what we should have. If she would just stop asking me, I would see that as respect. Instead she wants to call her mother and have her tell her what to make.
I would also see it as respect if gemela could plan a grocery list and make one or two trips a week to the store instead of once or twice daily. In her defense, I believe this is a cultural thing. Refrigeration in Mexico is not as widespread and markets tend to be within walking distance so I think she just grew up that way. I hate it though.
I don't view respect as any certain behavior (e.g. feet licking). I view it as gemela thinking enough of me to consider how her actions will affect me.
For any single fatehrs, here is a great time-saving tip I just discovered. Leave the kids in their clothes when they take a shower! Both kids and clothes get clean at the same time! Women are such time wasters. I am also saving water and helping the environment. I also learned it is a good idea to put a pillow in the tumble dryer when you dry the clothes - otherwise they bump their little heads. Also dry on low heat or they cry alot.
THANKS pio, I got it,, I need to put in my shoes H (no liking anything)... and try to be in his place... Before the A I always let him know where I was, and if I would arrive late to home.. now after D day, Im more than ever, I let him know where I am... At the begining of this process I was refused to do this, but I want that he be in calm, and no suspecious about anything..
But what about no to be agree with him in somethings? is this a way to show no respect? FOr example, my H since time ago wants to buy a van, and I have not been agree because we are paying our house... and I think our cars are working fine... and maybe for he is important to have a van, because most of his coworkers has one...!!! (hombre macho pues...!) and for him to have another "deuda" is not a big deal... but for me it is... Do I need to say yes to this, even Im not agree with? He complains that in our M all big decisions are taking by myself.. I always ask him but finally (according to his words) I decided all... ????? what do you think?
pio about your comment of G decisions to have lunch for next day, have you ever told her about you dont like to be involved in lunch decisions? Im from Mexico and I do the super, once on weekend.. I havent time to go to a market (mercado, tianguis) where you can find fresh vegetables or fruts) so I go to the supermarket.. Have you think that G asked you because she wants to cook food that you like? Every time I can I ask my H about this.. I try to cook food that he likes... And maybe G gotting some bored at home and thats why she went to market severl times per weak..? just maybe... Talking about daughters, my 4 years old, helped me yesterday to peel champiñones, chicharos and to espulgar lentejas... she was happy for helping mom, and she wants to do it again.. You are doing great pio, I think you are enjoy your D maybe more than ever... Congratulations!! I want to asked you another thing... In your M who was the father tender, and who was the stricted one? (el que consiente y el que regaña?)
regreted, I have this funny feeling that your above quoted statement is either part of the problem or is the problem.
What happens when both spouses are dominant? The one who had the affair becomes less dominant at least until some critical BS healing has occurred.
The worst thing my WW can do is to lie, something she has spewed in abundance of late. For example, she now claims there was no PA, only an EA. I know better. I simply sit quietly and let her lie. Because in those lies are usually some gems of truth and one never knows what he might learn. So, if your BH asks you about your A, your whereabouts, schedule, communications, etc., be totally honest. Sometimes a WS thinks that they are sparing their BS feelings by lying or withholding. Wrong. It is the worse thing you can do. I know when my WW is lying. I am betting that your BH knows the same.
Accept that it will take time. Deceit in the form of infidelity is the worst hurt a spouse can give to another. I don't remember when your DD was but give it some time.
TOd Im afraid in my case I cannot be totally honest..for my H a PA is the worst.. I did OS to OM..inside a car!! we never made love, but my A was PA no just EA.. My H suspects something about PA, but he had repeated to me that if I made love with OM our M is finished.... For he is more importat physicall contact that the fact that I felt in love with OM!! He is a mexican macho...So I hide the hole truth.. and as you know I was involved with another guy before OM.. (online affair, having sex by internet) Im so regreted about that.. and this is so embarrassed... Well I cant tell hole truth.. believe me. My D day was on March 21, and my H got violent and started to drink and he said he had suicide thoughts...!!
Pio - I have some wonderful recipies for small children. Mine are a bit too old for them now but they can be fun. I'll share them with you. BTW, keeping the clothes on while showering is genius. My youngest thinks sleeping in his clothes is a time saver, just get up & you're ready to go.
OK, here are the recipies:
Two small children (girls are more tender) chopped into bite size pieces. This can be messy so do it outside Roll in beaten egg Roll in seasoned flour, use plenty of curry Fry (this is an American dish after all) in hot oil until crispy & the crying has stopped.
I recall that BH got physical with you. As Pittman says, honesty is the best policy but if a WS encounters a drunk BS with a machinegun, it may not be the best time for truth.
I will tell you, on DD, I went beserk. I never have hit or touched my WW in anyway and didn't that night. Instead, I went from room to room throwing my fist as hard as I could into the wall. Since then, I am calmed considerably and WW knows she can tell me the truth. She is lying to help protect OM so he can repair his relationship with his son. That irks me the most.
You will have to judge when the time arrives to share with your BH some truths about your A's. A marriage built on a shaky foundation - and a foundation of lies is shaky - will soon fall.
As for SF bothering BH more than feelings of love, that is not uncommon. Shirley Glass points this out. And it is not all Latino machismo either. I feel the same way. If my WW had an EA only and loved the OM, it would not have affected me nearly as much. Why? SF is something that should be exclusive. When you or any other WS has an affair, you gave away to another person something that should belong only to your spouse. It is a huge transgression. It will take time regreted. Abandon all your thoughts about Mexican macho. Any man would be hurt in this kind of situation.
I don't know when your weekends are or even when your days and nights are. Or even where the heck you are. I tried following I-10 to the east to see if it connected with SA, but no, Yahoo ends it just before the Atlantic Ocean. Maybe I will try Mapquest.
I am not sure I understand your question but see if this answer works for you. I have always been the stricter of the two of us regarding the DDs but I have almost never ever had to discipline the DDs because I have always been very consistent. Gemela is less strict in that she will let them do things unless it makes her mad. Gemela has always been inconsistent letting them do things at some times and not others. Gemela has always been one to punish. She gets angry and hits them with shoes, she even sometimes slaps them. She never does that in front of me but I hear it and DDs tell me. During the A it got so bad that I did threaten WW and told her I would do anything to her that she did to the DDs. She stopped being abusive AFAIK.
On the other hand, I have always been the one to let DDs try things. If they want to do an activity and I see that it helps build their imagination, I let them do it. Gemela, OTOH, will say no if it means getting the floor dirty, for example. I let them do it and then I clean the floor because creativity is more important. I also let them do "riskier" things as long as they are safe. Gemela is just like her mother. "Don't rollerblade in the house because you might lose your balance and have to grab hold of the refrigerator or oven to keep from falling and, in that exact moment, a lightning bolt will hit the transformer outside sending thousands of volts through the house wiring and you will be electrocuted - and BTW, thet plastic wheels on the rollerblades will likely melt and stick to the ceramic tiles making them impossible to clean.
I swear her mother could have written those "Final Destination" movie scripts. She is a genius for cause and effect. I say rollerblade in the house as long as you have your helmet and pads on. If I hear thunder, I'll let you know, okay?
I was always distant from the DDs. There are a lot of significant factors for that. One is just to look at my own childhood. I had a drunken, philandering father, a cruel and abusive stepfather and a vacuum in adolescence where I had essentially no parents. I was the ultimate latch key kid. Add in the fact that MIL came on board and took over the raising of our DD1 and, to some extent, DD1 and gemela wasn't really a mothe either. The DDs were more like Barbie dolls for her than daughters.
Since Dday, I have tried to change that and now I am very close to my DDs and, IMO, have a much healthier relationship with them than gemela does.
As far as decision making, some of that is cultural. Yes IMO you have every right to help decide whether you buy a SUV or not. You need to learn POJA and both need to learn to apply that in your marriage. You will both respect each other more if you do. In our case, I don't necessarily mind that gemela spends money on occasion. What bothers me is that she does it secretly, hides the purchase and then lies about it later "oh I bought that years ago in Muscat. Don't you remember? You never take any interest in what I do!". Diversionary tactics.
ToddAC,
I am currently 9 hours ahead of you. To make it simpler for you, look outside. If you see the Sun, I see the Moon. Our weekends are Thursday and Friday.
Hi all, I think I may have been lost on I-10 as well, or maybe it was all the Swayze talk that mesmorized me but I missed a day or two and spent the past 45 minutes greatly amused...thanks
Todd, it appears you have regained your quick wit and geekspeak twofold since your microwave treatment...loved the pot comment to Nams...also, I agree with you about number #1 LB=lies...I feel like Regretted should set up a safe environment where she can tell BS the entire truth so that she can move on...otherwise she will live in fear, and be constantly worried about his reactions to the bits and pieces...if a counselor or clergy were able to be present and then she could have a separate place to stay while he reacted or she could contract with him to tell the truth but he would have to abide by certain conditions to include being alcohol free and avoid any physical violence...I know it sounds much easier than it would be but at least life could move on in the direction it is meant to...JMHO
Pio, Here is a link for kid recipes http://kid.allrecipes.com/ the site also has many other quick, easy recipes. I usually get my 3 kids input and bring them grocery shopping with me. Their top 10 favorite foods:
1. salad of any kind esp. seafood salad 2. shaved ham 3. mac-n-cheese 4. spaghetti 5. any kind of cut up fresh fruit 6. carrots/broccoli with ranch drsg 7. chicken (nuggets, fingers, legs, boneless breasts, grilled) 8. corn on the cob 9. mashed potatoes 10. white rice
My DD1 is now cooking some on her own...try making pancakes, waffles, omlettes together...we have a blast except for clean up.
Kiwi, can't remember why but LOL to your recent comments
Speaking of all the food I must run and feed my soccer players before practice...catch up with you all later
I have said it before and will say it again. I cannot agree with you witholding your A's from your H. Yes OS is sex plain and simple. But that one incident is not what I am talking about. Your secrets run far deeper than that. ToddAC is right. If you do somehow get H to engage back in the M and somehow put all this behind him, your M will be a house of cards and one phone call, email or candygram from OM will bring it all down.
It is your decision to tell or not tell. I am just repeating that you are making a bad decision. At the end of the day, it is your decision to make - not mine.
you are quite right. I forgot to mention the sleeping in the clothes. I just make sure they tuck the shirts in tight and it saves the need for ironing.
...if a counselor or clergy were able to be present
I was thinking a "Jerry Srpinger bouncer" but you may be right.
I was wondering where you were off to. I assumed that, since you started on the 30 day plan, that you were lounging away with WH feeding you bonbons and polishing your nails. Am I far off?
Shaved ham - that will be a tall order here or, as I said once before, when pigs learn to fly.
LOL...you are so far off you must be in another galaxy
I am sticking to the plan however...must say much easier without the snoop factor since that makes me physically ill and triggers my temper when I find new indiscretions...I agree it is much easier to just assume the worst but act my best
Between the kids going back to school, my return to classes, the demands of soccer practice 2-3 times weekly plus games (multiply by 3) and upkeep of the homefront I have not had much time for anything which is pretty convenient since H hasn't offered any activities of late or pitched in with any house/yard work nor been around much
I'll be interested to see how our next counseling session goes
As for your DD becoming upset with each WW encounter...I know the fallout stinks but it is important to allow the opportunity for contact otherwise you will be accused of interfering with mother daugheter communication. My DD1 always did the same thing when I was away on business...her reaction was the same regardless if it was 3 days or 6 weeks...just her sensitive personality. What I found was that nighttime was the worst time due to fatigue, hunger, exhaustion and withdrawal...my DD did better with phone conversations at the beginning of the day when she had limited time and things of her own to look forward to and divert her throughout the day. I am not Gemela but although my H had to deal with the fallout he also got to see her bounce back to her happy self...I was left with the memory of desparate crying and it stayed with me throughout the day...I did not bounce back as quickly as my DD and felt guilty...I still look back and feel horrible about our time apart...however, it gave me much more motivation to make our together time much more meaningful...it helped me realign my priorities about family, work, etc. Just a thought.
Also, you can have DDs make and send cards, postcards etc if it makes it easier on all of you. Have them do a movie where they tell WS what's going on and act silly and sing, read to mom etc. This will also show how happy and how much fun they are having.
I see the sun so I know your on moontime...we'll be having a full one tonight...sleep tight
I am currently 9 hours ahead of you. To make it simpler for you, look outside. If you see the Sun, I see the Moon. Our weekends are Thursday and Friday.
Okay, I just looked outside and it is overcast, so I see no sun nor moon.
I thought you were GWTW. Speaking of which, when I talked/listened to my WW over the weekend, she mentioned that she had sold several items that belonged to me. Books were among the vindictive motivated victims. So, I asked her if she sold anything that belong to her that was special. I have already mentioned the doll. She had a GWTW Room Divider - got that? a GWTW room divider - and she sold it for 163% of what I paid for it. So, I know the drill now: don't collect dolls; collect room dividers. In fact, I have already acquired a 2001: A Space Odyssey room divider. I use it to divide the space between the kichen/dining area and bedroom. The housekeeping crew is not amused. They knocked it over while vacuuming and broke the glass. Womens!
Quote
loved the pot comment to Nams
Well, that's two of us; however, nams did not like it very well. I didn't know what a potter was. I guess Demi was the potter? And Patrick Swayze put his sissy little hands on hers? Oh, how sexy can one get?
Quote
I feel like Regretted should set up a safe environment where she can tell BS the entire truth so that she can move on...otherwise she will live in fear, and be constantly worried about his reactions to the bits and pieces...if a counselor or clergy were able to be present and then she could have a separate place to stay while he reacted or she could contract with him to tell the truth but he would have to abide by certain conditions to include being alcohol free and avoid any physical violence...I know it sounds much easier than it would be but at least life could move on in the direction it is meant to...JMHO
I have a feeling - a hunch perhaps - that there is more to regreted's story about that. I base this on her "two dominant" personalities comment. I am sure I will hear from regreted but it may be one way to help.
Quote
1. salad of any kind esp. seafood salad 2. shaved ham 3. mac-n-cheese...
When my sons were young, their favorite was shaved ham. But Pio, learn from my experience, ensure that you wash all the shaving cream off or you will be going to the ER that night with two little sick girls.
Quote
I'm sure you missed my ramblings...not!
Oh, you were gone? JK, yes we truly enjoy your musings and ramblings.
really I want to keep my M alive... I want to do my H happy, and Im 100% sure that if I told him everything he is going to hate me... He has seflsteem problems also and even before my A.. and would be imposible for him to think that I still love him.. Why a person who loves you, cheat on you? why a person that promise you to be loyalty (leal) had sex encounters with someone else.? for he all this years would be lies... and our M is in risk right now... Internet affairs hera are still more incredible for people who are just know what the ****** it is...for my H the concept to have pleasure just using phone calls or chat its sick!!! pervertive... You can imagine, what would be its reaction.. If I had told him the truth since D day, now all family would know.. knows details I think is not necesary... Im going to take the risk, and Im going to trust in OM about he is going to get out of my life forever, and in a quiet manner... He would be the only person who can reveal all the truth... Other way is if my H got in this site and find all my posts... the I would be lost, me, my family and my marriage.. Im going to work harder than ever and do whatever in order to my H feels love again for me... maybe when our Bank love would be plenty.. full, then maybe our M could survive to the hole truth,,,, Maybe after some profesional help for both... but no now...
Congratulations for have and take this oportunity.. enjoy your DD's as someone said "our sons are just borrow for a while.." los hijos están prestados solo un rato...
How did you deal with infance stuffs and how did you do for no repeat same behaviour as your tutors?
Is so common to repeat what we learned and lived in our childhood....
I am somewhat beyond brilliant (IMVHO) in the use of Macromedia Flash and my DDs use it as a drawing tool. They are both quite good with a digitizing tablet. I think I will let them make mommy a Flash card. Animated and with sound!
regreted,
I doubt seriously that H is going to find this site. OM2 will be the death of your M because that is what he wants. OM will not be happy until you are divorced because that is his game. As long as you are married, he hasn't won and he has a huge ego and needs to win. Do you honestly think he has been sitting around pining away for you? No. He is in the chat room every night doing the same thing with other women and he is still a married man. The problem that you have is that you still have some romantic notion that he loves you - that you are his soulmate. The A made you happy and you are convinced it was because you were both in love. So you love OM2. He does too (love himself that is). His feelings for you are closer to hate than love. He uses you to satisfy a need. He will definitely be calling again. And when he does, your M is history.
I have never tried long distance sex in my life so I won't comment on whether it is deviant or not. But internet sex with a total stranger is definitely deviant.
2much,
Don't you feel better about yourself and aren't you much happier by not snooping? I know I was. It took a terrible burden off me when I decided to do it. Sorry about the bonbons. Maybe you could POJA bonbons?
Well I never did get my feet properly taken care of last night. Just as I got started, DDs got into a fight over who was going to watch Barbie Mermaidia. They forget we have a big TV where they can watch together.
Anyway - yes - premature exfoliation. I hope this does not become a persistent problem.
Did I offend with the recipe of chopped up little girls? I'm sorry if I did offend anyone but that is one of my most popular party dishes. I'll stop.
Todd, I didn't mind the remark about potters. There's no reason for me to assume everyone is familiar with the term. Plus, I forgot we have engineer types here. Lots of engineering specific comments made here fly right over my head. They make me yawn too.
Your comment about drugs is usually closely followed by a comment about the movie Ghost. Just thought I'd nip it in the bud.
Just so you know, when I teach men pottery I always sit behind them, right up close, because I find they learn better that way. The ladies...I just toss a few comments in their direction & they catch on but the men seem to need the hands on approach. Think they're slow?
The reality is I've had two male students in the past three years. One was 68 the other 20. The tip is if you're a single male take a pottery class, you're likely to meet women. Just keep your hands to yourself.
Did I offend with the recipe of chopped up little girls? I'm sorry if I did offend anyone but that is one of my most popular party dishes. I'll stop.
Oh heavens no. It was your assertion that girls are more tender. From where I sit, girls are very tough.
Quote
Just so you know, when I teach men pottery I always sit behind them, right up close, because I find they learn better that way. The ladies...I just toss a few comments in their direction & they catch on but the men seem to need the hands on approach. Think they're slow?
Either slow or coy. So, you are a potter and teach others to become potters. Are you commercial? I need a second career. Maybe... and I like getting my hands dirty. As long as Patrick doesn't touch them.
I have managed to calm down from this past weekend’s tirades especially hearing my youngest son cry like a baby as he bemoaned the loss of our family. I will try to R with WW but only on such terms that are sufficient for me to be happy. Those terms are as follows:
1. Honesty - Complete honesty from her regarding questions I still have about her A that she refuses to answer. This past weekend, she claimed that she never had a PA; that it was only an EA. I know better for a fact. So, when we talk again this weekend, I will tell her that no R is remotely possible if it is built on lies.
2. This item is a corollary of the first. A major concern I have going forward is can I trust her to not have another affair in the future, either with OM or some new dude. Clearly, my faith in her must also be rooted in truth.
3. NC letter to OM.
4. We both go to IC/MC.
5. If/when we physically get back together, she becomes transparent in her movements, schedule, etc.
For the record, I don’t intend to POJA the above conditions; I am way past doing that. Failing any of those conditions, my marriage is doomed and I will move to Plan D. I am not optimistic. She seems happy to bury her head in the sand and pretend she did nothing wrong. What makes it worse is that, based on a telephone conversation I heard which she had with her BF, the lie about the PA was encouraged/demanded by OM. He is trying to repair damage with his son who is not happy with him. The reason for her lies irks me more than the lies.
Todd - Those matters are NEVER the subject of a POJA. They are pre-requisites for recovery and reconcilliation and as such are rightly non negotiable and eminently reasonable.
A major concern I have going forward is can I trust her to not have another affair in the future
That is a tad convolluted dude. First, you should not turst your WW in any way shape or form. Big mistake if you do. Second, the only way you can ensure that she never has another affair is a) go into recovery and b) ensure you are meeting her EN's. Eventually you may learn to trust her again but blind trust is gone forever.
If I place trusting my WW as a precondition to recovery, I might as well get divorced now.
s for the rest, you are requiring radical honesty, total transparency and absolute NC. Those three are givens. Counseling is a bonus but a reasonable one.
Quote
I will try to R with WW
You do realize that it takes two of you right? I mean, I know you are Superman and all that but seriously.
I suggest you email your terms to WW. Let there be no confusion.
Quote
She seems happy to bury her head in the sand and pretend she did nothing wrong
ToddAC,
Your WW is Latina, Catholic, raised in a strict family. Assuming she is out of the fog, how do you expect her to deal with it? I ask this because I have a similar dilemma with my WW. Is it denial or coping behavior? How does someone face the fact that they committed a mortal sin, betrayed their family and faith and became a puta?
I wouldn't make acceptance a prerequisite for R. I would demand the other three and work this one out in counseling. Give her some time. From what others have said, it might be a year or more before you and her are on the same page with this one.
A major concern I have going forward is can I trust her to not have another affair in the future
Quote
That is a tad convolluted dude. First, you should not turst your WW in any way shape or form. Big mistake if you do. Second, the only way you can ensure that she never has another affair is a) go into recovery and b) ensure you are meeting her EN's. Eventually you may learn to trust her again but blind trust is gone forever.
Valid points. I will not trust her in the classic sense but more like the Cold War "trust buy verify". She has trouble with transparency. Duh. As I said, I am not optimistic about the odds of R. If it happens, great; if not, I'm back to the mirror looking myself in the face. This time, my youngest son will be there as well and I need to give this marriage its all for my family. Don't worry, I am corrected course since the weekend and will not unhappily stay married to her.
Quote
You do realize that it takes two of you right? I mean, I know you are Superman and all that but seriously.
I do. That's why if she doesn't agree to the base conditions, it is over. Again, I fully expect her to reject every condition. At least she would have been consistent.
Quote
[quote] She seems happy to bury her head in the sand and pretend she did nothing wrong
Your WW is Latina, Catholic, raised in a strict family. Assuming she is out of the fog, how do you expect her to deal with it? I ask this because I have a similar dilemma with my WW. Is it denial or coping behavior? How does someone face the fact that they committed a mortal sin, betrayed their family and faith and became a puta?
The same night that DS3 became so upset, WW decided to get plastered. She called me, crying, and repeating over and over that she hates what she did to our family. Now recall, sober, it was all my fault because I exposed. IOW, no exposure, no problems. At least for her. Albeit her confession was from a drunken tongue, it is still a positive sign. But, smart money says that if I talk to her this weekend, and she is sober, it will again become my fault.
Quote
I wouldn't make acceptance a prerequisite for R. I would demand the other three and work this one out in counseling. Give her some time. From what others have said, it might be a year or more before you and her are on the same page with this one.
A year? Geez. Don't know. Hey, I am lost honestly. When you say you wouldn't make acceptance a prerequisite for R. Acceptance of the conditions? Or what?
Pijo: Sorry for not being up on your situation...the thread is too long for me to get any sense of what is happening. It is the new "idiotville"...congrtaulations on that.
What is the cliff notes version? Are you and the Cheating wife back and working it out? How was the trip to Florida?
Disneyworld was great in the sense of a family vacation. Plan was for WW to go to Mexico at the end and we go to Houston. DD1 kicked up huge fuss at the airport. Miami police got involved and would not allow us to separate in Miami, WW begged to go to Houston. We went to Houston. She was being very nice. I was being very depressed. I ahd looked forward to being away from her. I sucked it up and lived with it. After about a week she got sad and told me she was homesick for Mexico. I lost it and told her to get out and go to Mexico. We bought her a ticket and she left. We were in USA without her about a week and then came back.
Except for a few procedural emails initially, I have insisted on NC with WW. I have adopted the attitude that this separation is permanent and I shut her out of my mind completely. I know the separation will not be permanent. In a few weeks I expect she will come back (as we agreed) and we will discuss our future(s). Beyind that I have no commitment.
I am a full-time single father and I do mean full-time. I don't expect much of anything to change until she comes back. She has until Oct 29th to return on her existing visa. I have no idea when she is planning to return. I hope it is not any time too soon.
The DDs are doing great. They don't have any idea that the separation is long-term because, at this moment, we don't really know. DD1 gets upset sometimes when she talks to mommy but as soon as she hangs up, she is fine again. Other times she is not bothered at all and most times she can't even be bothered to talk to mommy because mommy's calls cut into her play time with her friends due to time zone.
Did you know about the love letters and photos? They were a godsend. They killed OM for me. I now see the A clearly for what it was. I bought WW a Spanish version of The Road Less Traveled and told her she could not come back until she read it.
I have been asking myself the question whether I am happier with WW or without her. I am happier without her. For me to be willing to R, I will have to see significant changes upon her return. If that doesn't happen, I will buy her a one-way ticket to wherever she wants to go.
She is staying with SIL, SIL's OM and MIL in Mexico AFAIK. Beyond that, I have no knowledge of what she is doing and I really don't care. I feel totally free from her A and from her. I get lonely sometimes but I ask myself if WW being here would cure my loneliness. The answer is no. I do not want a WW in my life. If a potential FWW returns from Mexico, we will see. I have made no decision as to what will happen. I don't really care either way because it wouldn't make any difference if I did.
That is the Cliff notes version. I expect WW will come back in maybe 5 or 6 weeks.
Thanks for posting because I was really hoping to get your input.
Are you still up? DD2 is a little upset in the stomach. I think she ate too much Oreo omelette. Anyway, I am not sure what to do. Okay, I have put the lime in the coconut but I don't know what comes next. You have three sons. Any ideas?
If Big Ben were in Paris, he would be striking constantly making demands like only having to keep time 5 hours a day, never on weekends and get 4 weeks off a year (paid).
As far as the Oreo omelette, eggs, cheese, crushed Oreos, a little bit of water (never use milk to stir the eggs). From there DD1 likes non-blue Skittles and a fruit roll-up on the inside. DD2 prefers chopped jalapenos with chipotle sauce and honey on top.
Is she reading LNPDA (Spanish version of TRLT)? I have no way of knowing.
Oops! almost forgot - they both like whipped cream on top.
If Big Ben were in Paris, it would have quit working a long time ago.
Who is it that got mad at us today for French bashing? Nams? Or someone else? Must have been Nams. She got mad about many things today. Yesterday, whenever. Did she inspire the discussion about yams versus sweet potatoes?
nams is (I think) neutral on the French bashing but she seems to defend the Dutch. It is Ahuman that is the francophile. She and Diane Lane have something in common.
There is another French apologist, luna. In fact, doesn't she live in Quebec? And previously lived in France? And is from Italy? Or do I have the sequence messed up?
Nams is sensitive to the wooden shoe. I don't get it. We've shown them the leather shoe and they keep wearing the wooden shoe. It is analogous to chop stix that the Chinese use. We've shown them the fork...but they insist on using those chopstix.
I know some dishes but must of them have some Mexican ingredient in them. Like the Chicken poblano, it's made with chicken sans bones, chile verde chilli, cream and corn. Chile verde is the big Mexican chilli, that is usually stuffed of meat or cheese, it's used also in stripps, stripps of cebolla with stripps of the chile verde and cream, one tortilla and you have a taco.
DD's b/f's parents have met them in Paris and they are now all spending a week on a boat in Croatia. I KNOW that this will bring them (DD and b/f) back to reality which is not what they need right now.
Rob was SO right that if we'd met up with them (which I desperately wanted to do) it would have intruded on their independence, their trip and their space.
Char the poblano on a hot pan or open fire, put it in a plastic bag and let it sweat. Cut in strips, add corn (canned or frozen), media crema. Before hand, boil some chicken breasts and then pull apart the meat. Mix all that stuff up, roll up in a soft flour tortilla. That is more or less it but I am sure larousse has more things to add. I never have any trouble getting poblanos at Walmart.
I went to make some grocery shopping, I wanted to have a nice fruit basket for the visit of my maybe soon to be ex boyfriend and I went to a shop with a wide selection of them, of fruits of course not of ex boyfriends. It was almost 12 am and there was only one cashier girl. The girl kept introducing the wrong codes for the fruits, because even if they look similar in that store they have like 5 kind of apples, also some very exotic Mexican fruits like mamey, chico zapote, pitaña.
Well I had to tell the girl two times that she was charging me the fruit wrongly and behind me there was starting a big cue of impacient men. The girl behavied like if I should just say ok, give them the code you want. I couldn't it was like a matter of principles, lol. Finally her supervisor helped her and all was settled. I felt uneasy.
We can bash the Mexicans living in Mexico. Why do they need 5 o 6 taquerias, place where you eat tacos, in the middle of the walking way of people in one street? Why do they reproduce so much? Why do some get easily distracted working? Here Pio should have suffered a lot. Perfection or even perfection in mediocrity is not a known notion in some places. Why do we need so many people in groceries stores, one to full the bags and carry them, one to take care of the car, one to wash the car, the parking cashier...
Why do we eat wherever the hunger strikes? Why do we feel that the rules don't apply to us but to the next guy? You see, I could go on...
Pio, I think you described well the recipe of the Poblano chicken. Instead of chest I would use 'leg' or thight with out bone because of the taste. The chile can also be de-skinned, lol, sumerging it in boiling water for like one minute or when the outside sking is noticeable and white.
Todd, as with most chillis from Mexico, you can control the 'hotness' lol, by removing the white straps all along inside of them, and the seeds.
Kiwi,
Sorry about your daughter visitors. I have seen pics of Croatia coast and they are very nice, romantic.
Sorry KiwiJ. I am not ignoring you. I am just juggling. Right now DD1 is point a hot glue gun at me and she means business. DD2 wanst to water slide and I am running coax from the den to the kitchen through the plenum space and running into one obstacle after another.
As I remember, you made a big deal out of wanting to meet them in Europe and was almost a fallout between you and Rob. Why do you say that BF's parents visit was a mistake? You must have reason.
I think the parents visiting is a mistake because this is THEIR (DD and b/f's) adventure, THEIR trip of a lifetime and their independence. Now they'll be back to doing what the parents want and the dynamics of the whole trip will change. Only for a week, which is a blessing. They're getting to really know each other for when they marry, they're away from home, they'll be back here soon enough and will have to deal with us as parents again.
Rob understood that they needed to be left alone to do this. Does he rock, or what???? How does he know this stuff?
Hey, if the glue gun gets you, well, heck I don't know how to get that stuff out.
Todd, tell me what food do you like, I mean, soups, creams, chicken, fish, salads and I can tell you some of our versions.
Two very important herbs in Mexican cuisine are fresh cilantro and epazote. There is a simple champignon soup with the boiled water, lol, caldo, of chicken. The secret ingredient is epazote. cilantro is... Coinder*?
I can get fresh cilantro. I do not know what epazote is. If it is something Goya makes, I can get it. I can probably get it anyway since there are many Latin stores here.
I am looking for a main dish type recipe. For example, in PR, Arroz con pollo is very popular. Or paella but that would probably be difficult. I have a very small la cocina with only a couple of pots in which to cook, hence the need for something easy. I can only cook the normal American stuff. Gets boring after a while. Boy, I miss PR food.
So, if there is something like beef and rice or chicken and rice or whatever. Some kind of meat with rice or potatoes. And the easier the better.
I can see how, if you go off on the adventure of a lifetime, it is something that you would want to be uniquely yours. Just depends on who is the tour guide and who is the tourist.
LOL, DD is probably ok with it but she does find the parents quite hard going. She is very fond of b/f's father but I'm afraid b/f's mother is quite hard work. She is very fond of DD (as much as a mother can be fond of the girl who is taking her darling boy away) but it's just something that I'm glad we aren't doing - that is, interrupting their trip.
I'll be out of contact with DD for a while but she hasn't said much.
It's more that Rob was completely right about this and I was completely wrong. I LOVE it when he's so smart - it's what he's always been and I love him for it.
I'm going to answer to Nam here and she'll have to look for my answer tomorrow, hehe.
My boyfriend maybe upgradding his status to fiance, mine of course, haven't you heard of Latina's jelousy?
How do I know, well he asked me if there were in Mexico these machines where you put a coin and you get a candy or a chewing gum and a small present. He specifically asked if there were that kind of machines with rings and gum. I guess he wants to chew the gum, to lower his stress, before or while putting the nice ring in my left hand.
Do you think I'm assuming too much? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Well considering my past experiences, I almost don't want him to ask mee to upgrade him of status.
When the first man asked me to marry him, his b*tt was exposed because I was desinfecting him after a cirugical operation on his back side, talk about private, unforgetable moments. He's dead now and no, it was not my doing.
The second one was some kind of post relationship marriage petition. We were close to the end of our relationship and he said that he would even marry me. I assumed he didn't say it in a romanttic, meaninful way and he assumed I was not interested. Yeap, he's dead too, not my doing either.
So now I have this funny American, almost italo-american, his mother's parents were both italian and he keeps romancing me with love, tenderness, and funny stuff.
What's a girl gonna do?
He moved to a sub-suburban house recently, that I haven't seen yet and he tells me about the deer that visit his place, to prove to a city girl like me that deer walks freely by his house, he bought a big bag of corn for animals and put the corn in his yard.
One week later the deer and all the deer family were there.
Todd, there is an easy one and spicy. Mole con pollo.
Buy like half chiken so you have bones, lol, for taste and the leg part to go with the mole.
In the Mexican food stores, look for mole rojo or green, both are taste, the green has more seeds, grinded or almond mole, there are several kinds, you try what looks more appealing to you. I like green and black, black comes from Oaxaca, the state where Regreted is from. Black mole has cacao in it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
If there is not great variety of moles in the store for sure you will find Mole Doña María.
You put the chicken to boil, as little as you want, I mean if you don't want to buy half chicken, just two legs and thights. You put 1/4 onion and 1 or 2 garlic, 1/2 tea spoon of salt. Not too much salt because the mole has some.
You put it to boil until the chicken is tender. Usually people just disolve the mole into half litter of 'caldo'. With black or red mole I put a red tomate to 'grill' a little the fire, let the sking to get a little bit brown, and then you licufy it with the caldo. You put the mole you bought in the store in a pan, the caldo, with or without tomate, and when it starts to disolve you move it a little to help it to disolve better, you let it boil a very low fire some minutes. The consistency of mole is not very fluid, not stiky either, hard to describe. Enough to look like a dense cream but with enough fluidity to cover the chicken. When the mole is ready you can either put the legs inside of the mole in the pan or serve the leg previously cooked with or without sking, and cover it generously with the mole. You serve with white rice. Mexican white rice is done frying a little the rice, no precooked rice, until it seems a little transparent, you add two cups of water for cup of rice. One tea spoon for cup of rice. One garlic per cup of rice and you cover the pan and put it to low fire for 10 minutes. Add fresh cilantro, like four 'ramas' per cup of rice. You let it cook for twenty minutes more or until the water is consumed and you can see the bottom of the pan if you introduce a fork or a spoon. You don't stir the pan once the rice is cooking.
Usually two or three big spoons of white rice with generous amount of mole over a chicken leg.
If you can find Mole veracruzano with plátano try it. It's not very commun, not outside of Veracruz, it's delicious. Either that or black or green mole.
BTW, if you are planning to mary an American and live in the USA (assuming you have a Mexican passport), my advice to you is travel to the USA for "tourism" and then get married there. Do NOT get married outside the USA and then apply for a green card. The latter is the legal way which is what we did. I strongly advise against it. Break the law and get married as an illegal. It will save you thousands of dollars and tons of heartache. This was one of those cases where I truly regret obeying the law.
Pio...one of my top 10 favorite movies!!! Yes it does sound similar. I LOL just thinking about that movie and the surreal size of the coffee cup...not to mention his stage poems, the music and the ending with the drum/cymbals.
Todd - Those matters are NEVER the subject of a POJA. They are pre-requisites for recovery and reconcilliation and as such are rightly non negotiable and eminently reasonable.
I have to ask how one is supposed to move forward in recovery or if they are even in recovery if those pre-requisites are not being addressed or complied with. If the WS is not willing to be transparent or if they are only giving bits of transparency in select areas how are you supposed to move forward. My MC tells me I need to be patient that WS behaviors will take time to change and if I insist on 100% honesty/transparency at this point I will be setting myself up for disappointment b/c it doesn't happen that way.
For now, thanks to Pio's smacking me with a 2x4 and telling me to quit whining I have given up snooping and am just assuming the worst and trying to behave at my best despite what goes on. A little preview of what I'm hearing: "have you met any hot guys at your new job?" "so has X put his xxxxxxcensoredxxxxxxx in you yet?" When I asked if saying these things makes him feel better he says yes. I have no idea where this is coming from except that I had to deal with it for years when he had insecurity issues. Things have changed drastically for him in the past year and I thought with all of his accomplishments, kudos and cult of admiring OWs he had boosted his self esteem and self-confidence. I am worried that if he truly has cut ties with all OWs that he is not getting his admiration/affirmation needs met and that is why I'm starting to hear this stuff again. I don't know how to meet them since he is never here. Any suggestions would be welcome.
This behavior is interspersed with sincere thank you's, kind remarks and overall more efforts to try and be more present in conversation and in person. Now, when I say more present this means us spending about 15-30 minutes together at the very end of day.
So, basically...how do you re-establish any trust if you don't have anyway to validate what you are seeing/hearing? Any books, exercises etc?
I will admit to having seen it but I wouldn't dare put it in my top 10. Are you Canadian by any chance eh?
Ok embarassing movie confessions, one of my favorite movies of all time is Ground Hog Day. I have a reason though. I used to travel all the time. I bet I easily spent 200 nights a year in hotels. I did absolutely nothing constructive on those nights. My hotel nights were kind of like Ground Hog Day. That movie came out and I saw the simplicity of it. From then on I challenged myself to something productive on each and every trip. I always ask myself that if I could live a day over and over, how would I spend it? I also enjoyed the evolution in Bill Murray's thought process.
In fact, I am sure that someone here could even draw a parallel to the movie and Plan A since, effectively that's what happened. Once he stopped trying to manipulate the outcome, he got what he wanted. But that part is too deep for me.
Me mad? Just 'cause I love wooden shoes & I could see you were headed towards bashing them? No, I don't think so.
I read the link on infidelity & I wish there was a way to send it to ex anonymously. He wouldn't see anything in there that pertains to him because he denied the affair therefore it didn't happen. Parellel to no exposure = no affair. Is it an affair if he moved in with gf two weeks after D was final? I think he "waited" because of the appearance of moving "too" quickly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
There was so much brutal truth in. I wish there was one written for the woman adulterer.
My favorit parts: Grow up & take F...responsibility for yourself. Put in the same effort that got you the results you liked you'll likely get those same results. Understand & love what happens to a woman's body after giving birth to your kids. You will lose the respect of your kids. Your kids will figure it out all on their own.
Todd - you've said your WW fears being alone. How can you trust her to be honest with you, & herself, about meeting your essential criteria if she's speaking from a place of fear?
My biggest stumbling block (even if I had the chance I wanted to truly reconcile) was how do I love the man who lied, ripped apart me & our family, acted selfishly etc.? Turns out I couldn't
You need a crock pot Todd. Very easy to get home cooked, comfort type foods. Throw tasty stuff in, let flavors blend for hours. Have a couple of easy to cook side dishes & there you have it, a home cooked meal. Cook for your sons. For me it's never fun to cook for myself.
Lastly, for now. A new career in pottery? Good if you don't need money to live. Bad if you do. Great lifestyle, great people, little money. Plus, most potters I know have to teach as well (which I love) & male students are slow learners.
larousse, yikes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Two dead men! How did you get way with it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Could be useful information. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
A strange question for your BF to ask - the one about machines with rings. You must know him well enough to at least suspect he's got marriage on his mind.
Why do you want him to remain a BF? Can't only be the two previous men you killed.
What a lovely marriage proposal. He would EVEN marry you. Wow, sounds like he was preparing himself for a life of sacrifice.
Your current (non-dead) man feeds the deer!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Tell him to STOP immediately! He will have a deer problem for YEARS & they will be eating everything he has ever had growing in his yard that he even remotely cares for. Right now it's endearing, next year he'll want to toture them.
Pio - I like Ground Hog day too. No personal reason such as yours but just because Bill Murry is funny.
Have you seen Galaxy Quest? That is one movie I have watched more than once & still laugh at.
Sounds like you're doing everything right in terms of feeding your daughters. They want candy & chips for breakfast? Absolutley fine! Makes my boys happy.
If you want something easy & kinda fun try cheese fondue. My oldest loves to make it & his brothers love to eat it. I like the social aspect of it.
Hi Kiwi - I don't want to ingnore you even if the others do.
Is anyone on here remotely related to the career choice field? I'm in a quandry & need some guidance & since anything seems to go here it seems like the appropriate place to ask.
Is anyone on here remotely related to the career choice field? I'm in a quandry & need some guidance & since anything seems to go here it seems like the appropriate place to ask.
Not per se but I have hired and managed many people over the years. I am known for my career guidance and helping people get ahead. I will help you if I can.
That's IT! Man, I haven't had crock in YEARS! Love it. My mother used to make crock every single night.
Feeds deer, huh? Just trying to sound romantic. On the more practical side, have you heard of lyme disease?
Qalaxt Quest. Tim Allen? Yes I have seen it but I have a personal thing against Tim Allen. I guess it was the drugs and lack of repentance. Not exactly my favorite role model.
The Dutch gave us sabotage with their wooden shoes (sabot). You have to respect a people who can invent something so useful. Have you ever tried to run in wooden shoes? I have. WW bought us each a pair. I promise you that you will never see the Dutch win any medals in the Summer Olympics.
Quote
how do I love the man who lied, ripped apart me & our family, acted selfishly etc.? Turns out I couldn't
Absolutely. The hope is that that person goes away and someone else returns. Could I love gemela again? Can lightning strike twice in the same place? It has been mathematically proven that it can. Do I love the person gemela currently is? Absolutely not. Nobody in their right mind could.
DD2 and DD1 got in a big fight. DD1 apparently lost a ski cap for her Bratz a while ago and DD2 gave one of hers to DD1. Now DD2 wants it back. DD1 says that isn't fair since it was a gift. DD2 says she likes the cap and it was hers. I could have gone all day without this.
Because I love my H, I want to spent m y life with him. I want our happiness, I want to keep my family together.. I realized how good man is my H, (even his bad humor of sometimes) I want to stay with him until my death,,,
Pio, Lock them in a room together until they can work it out on their own...eventually they will tire of each other and then consire together on what they need to do to get out...it will build sisterly love and teach them the consequences of not sharing. Don't fall for the "we have to go to the bathroom" whining...make them use the restroom prior to imprisonment!
Kiwi, Do you feel ignored???? Hope not, seems like you chime in when ever the spirit moves you ...am I right?
All, forget about Ground Hog Day...Bill Murray is painfully hysterical in another fav of mine..."What About Bob"...if you haven't seen it you are definitely missing some great belly laughing.
No, I am not Canadian. I like some odd movies I must admit but am not embarrassed...I'm a goof at heart! Unlike Pio, I don't pull life lessons from my viewing...I just sit back and laugh. I think some here may be a bit deeper than others...uuuhhhhh, hhhuuummmm...not to mention abstract. I'm just here trying to absorb what I can to help me move along and hope some of my life experiences may help some other soul.
I was driving today and had a revalation to include tears...I think I'm grieving the marriage I so wished and thought at one point that I had. My H and I had the original bond of religion and common goals and aspirations when it came to moral living and our life priorities. We have gradually drifted further and further apart from our original goals with mine in one direction and his in the other. I miss the comfort of knowing we are working toward the same goals and I get annoyed by his superficial materialistic manipulative efforts to seek attention from the younger crowd.
forget about Ground Hog Day...Bill Murray is painfully hysterical in another fav of mine..."What About Bob"...if you haven't seen it you are definitely missing some great belly laughing.
"What About Bob?" is a classic. Murray and Richard Dreyfuss are fantastic playing off each other in that movie.
Anyway, I like some odd movies as well. Stuff like "Slaughterhouse 5". Great movie. And book.
Actually I do pretty much try to stay out of DDs battles when it comes to "sharing" issues or other social behaviors. I remind them that I am their father - not their umpire - and I tell them to go sort it out. After the ski cap incident, I needed the DDs downstairs for something and the first thing DD1 said when she came down was that DD2 had thrown the ski cap (DD2 is a real temper). I asked why she was tattling on her sister. That shut her up. The then almost stepped on the ski cap by accident and I told DD2 to put it in its place or I would put it in the garbage. She took it back upstairs quietly.
But when it comes to things like [darn, I can't say Indian-giving or people will think I am bashing native Americans].
Hey, I just mistyped what I was writing and corrected it but noticed that if you leave out the "t", native Americans becomes naive Americans. I mean, I think they were a bit naive to trust the pale face as it turns out. Significant? Dunno.
Okay, anyway, I do think it is important to get involved in the things like giving the ski cap and then taking it back.
Our favorite expression we learned from the 8 TO across the street - You git what you git and you don't throw a fit. That has solved a world of potential problems.
One of my very favourite MBers is Native American.
Would you like to now remove your foot from your mouth.
I just nod and smile when I read about your DD's.
Until you have raised teenagers you don't even know that you are alive. Sorry, that sounds patronising but, darn it, I did it and lived, I can be as patronising as I like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Until you have raised teenagers you don't even know that you are alive. Sorry, that sounds patronising but, darn it, I did it and lived, I can be as patronising as I like.
This paleface does not speak with forked tongue. Raising teens is the most trying, difficult and emotionally challenging thing I have ever done. Especially my youngest.
Of course, it's a little different with girls. I am reminded of the time I caught DS3 trying to sneak out of the house at 3:00 am. He was going to leave and would not back down. Instincts took over. I got between him and the door and told him if he wanted to leave, he had to go through me. He almost did but backed off at the last minute. You can't do that with girls.
But, you know what they say about the difference between boys and girls don't you?
I remember when we went away for the weekend and I left DS, then 18, in charge of DD, then 16.
At 1.00am(!!!) DD called us at our hotel and said that DS had gone out, she had been frightened and her b/f had come round and picked her up and they had gone into town and were now back. She just wanted to let us know that everything was ok.
We were a 3 hour drive away from home so there was not a lot we could do. I spent the rest of the night pacing up and down and saying "How COULD he (DS), the ickin frickin mumble mumble irresponsible frickin...."
I have been known to tell my children, when they were annoying me to death with their attitudes/arguing/whatever that involved both of them, that they had to sit on the same couch at the same time. Neither person could get up until the other person could get up. S determined when D could get up. D determined when S could get up. But neither could get up before the other. And, after that, they were expected to not bring it up again because it had to be worked out by them before they got up.
Actually my comment was against the pale face. The native Americans, AFAIK, were proud, honest people. Why would they expect the pale face to reneg on his contract? The same applies today. US Embassies are useless in terms of helping Americans overseas. Remember the two great lies?
1) The check is in the mail 2) Hi, I'm from the government and I am here to help you.
that they had to sit on the same couch at the same time.
I've never done that. I do timeouts but individually. The most cruel thing for them is to see the other DD having fun while the one sits idle. They will do abything to avoid timeout. I have a great timeout corner too. Can't see anything useful. No TV's - nothing.
Well I am mostly over jet-lag. I got up at 3:30 and did the stairclimber. I watched Cheaters and had a good laugh and now out to the garage to work out. I feel great! And DDs won't be up till 5:00. What a bonus!
Forgot to mention that I had found my ZZ Top CD when I went through the stirage and I have just put it into iTunes. Could life get any better?
Well, best laid plans and all that - DD2 had a nightmare so got up. I put her pillow in the garage and she watched "Slap her, she's French" with me while I exercised. I don't know why I like that movie but I like it when the younger brother bails Srarla out of jail and the first thing he does is hand her a Dr. Pepper and says "here, you might need this". The movie does have a classic line I will never forget since I have studied a little philosophy. Starla says: "Fred Nietzsche said that which doesn't kill us is about to wish it had because we're going to FedEx its sorry a$$ back to 'skank central' where it came from". Telling the absolute truth here, this was my battle cry for the A.
And as Donovan wails in his song, "Riki Tiki Tavi": and the United Nations isn't really united. Or something like that.
And im my song: "The United Nations Blues": and the United Nations isn't worth the paper it's written on.
Herein ends the political reading.
Kids have to be at their worst on road trips. With three in the back seat, it was he!!. One of the crowning moments of our lives was when the mivivan hit the market. At least there were two seats in back. We bought three cages, put one son in each and spaced them out inasmuch as possible among the two seats. Then simply threw raw meat back there every thirty seconds and all was right with the world.
The single greatest invention in the history of mankind - and worthy of the Nobel prize I might add - is the portable DVD player. Each DD has her own so that can actually sit hip-to-hip for hours and not fight except when both want to watch the same movie - and, no, they can't both use one machine. What were you thinking when that occurred to you?
Larousse - Epazote is an herb. I have a huge bush growing in my garden. We put the leaves in black beans, caldo, etc. It has a strong, delicious smell, and you just get addicted to it.
Todd - thanks for the offer of help. My stooopid 'puter was acting up & I couldn't access MB or my email! OMG! Quite the crisis! My oldest said it was cookie related thing. Works now so crisis is over.
I've already had my glass of vino for the evening so laying out the whole story about my employment "issue" will take concentration I don't have at the moment. Tomorrow I will lay the whole thing out & I'd love some input. I feel like I've got lots of choices, none perfect, but all have some appeal. What I want VS what is practical/sensible/economically a good choice. All these things are swimming around in my head not making clear the best choice.
A la manana. Did I say that right? We lived in Spain for about a year & my restaurant Spanish was quite good but conversational Spanish escaped me.
Well I just read an email from my mother and it turns out that she used to do what Cenicienta (Cinderella in Spanish) suggested. I'll give it a try.
So far we have had to establish groundrules on the computer. I will preface this by saying we never had any problems until the USA visit. USA TV is designed to corrupt children. For example, they learned by watching cartoons in the USA all about bratz.com and barbie.com. Since then, they fight over the internet. Rules are no internet on the weekend - the computer is mine then. They take turns playing in the morning and the afternoon. In reality, they can only play about 20 or 30 minutes because, before or after that, I am home. I am sure the novelty will wear off soon. What concerns me is that I caught them playing polly pockets.com. I have bratz and barbie in favorites but not polly pockets. I can only surmize that DD1 has learned to google.
Lemonman,
Are you around? I have something I want to post if you are.
Well this is good and I feel somewhat vindicated. A coworker just called and told me that he missed his return flight in Heathrow and has to spend the night in London. Seems he had to check his carry-on and did not have enough time to make the flight.
Okay now that everyone is asleep or out on a Friday night, I can say that yesterday was my birthday. I remembered that it was and I had a great day. I was a bit concerned that WW might break NC and try to call. I did ignore a few calls yesterday because they were overseas calls and, since they were routed through an exchange, I couldn't see where they were coming from. Anyway, I forgot all about WW yesterday. I got the DDs started on their cards to mom but they quickly got distracted playing with the girls from across the street. They made a mess of the upstairs, downstairs and the garden. All of it got cleaned up before they went to bed. I forgot to look in the tree house. I shudder to think what is up there.
I didn't want to mention the Bday before because I didn't want KiwiJ to make a cake.
So tonight I went to the local Mexican restaurant. Let's see, ordered Chili Colorado (been craving it) and they no longer offer it. Reverted to Quesadila de Pollo, rice and pico de gallo. I want to register my love for pico de gallo. So simple, but so good. Anyway, couple of beers and then - then the roving Mexican band came around. Big guitar, little guitar, violin and trumpet. There I am and they asked me if I wanted to hear a favorite song. My favorite song in the entire world is Lambada. So I asked for it to be played. They looked at each other, then a couple of them huddled and within 90 seconds, they had it down. Best version I have ever heard. Ordered another beer. They asked if I wanted to hear another song. I said sure, how about "Nuca en Domingo"? So they played around with it for a while and decided they couldn't play it. Surprised, I quickly regrouped and asked for Malaguena. Best version of it I have ever heard. I am ashamed to admit how much I tipped them. Another beer. All in all, a great night. And my cooking skills were never challenged.
I can't say for certain if she tried or not. I had three missed calls that were routed through a local exchange. Those could have been from any overseas number. We were out at the time. I got one call from a really really strange number at 6:40 PM. I didn't answer it but I am positive it wasn't her. I am guessing all those calls were from my coworker trying to tell me he wouldn't be in today to avoid getting an "X day" on his record. Gemela certainly didn't send me any emails so I think she made no effort to contact me at all - and I appreciate that BTW.
Actually it would make me happy if we could remove a star.
I did my part.
Quote
I see a poster here named Rinderella. Does anyone remember Andy Griffith's Rindercella? How about "what is was was football"?
Yes, remember both. I still count the Andy Griffith Show as the best ever. Contrasted to shows today, give me a break.
And, yes remember what an LP was. In fact, I am quite certain that I was the last person in the free world to switch to CD's. Except for audiophiles of course.
I have not posted a particular aspect of this and am hoping to get your honest opinion. My recap of the vacation events was accurate. We had tickets to separate after DW in Miami with WW going to Mexico and we stayed in the USA. We got to the airport and gate-checked us since it was a domestic flight. As we were getting our boarding passes, DD1 was crying and pulling the bags off the scale. We kept putting them back up and she kept pulling them off. This obviously got attention from American Airlines. We finished all that and walked to a different terminal to check in WW. DD1 was angry and in a huff and we practically had to drag her. As we checked in WW, DD1 again began to cry and pull her bags off the scale. More attention. After tagging the bags, we took them over to the X-ray but we sat down before hand. I was angry. I was so angry that gemela had caused all this and had upset DD1 as a result. DD1 was angry and said she hated me and wanted to go to Mexico with WW. WW begged to go to Houston with us. I'll be honest and say I was not resolute in my decision but I was angry. I am sure I LBed and DJed WW to no end. I told her she had a ticket and I didn’t care when she came back. I told her (sarcastically) that, since her ticket was through London, she might even stop off to visit OM for a week or two. I did tell her though that is she did that, she might as well stay because I would never want to see her ever again. I think she may have missed that last part. Selective hearing and all. Anyway, we were still discussing when the Miami police came over and got involved. Long story short, they said we need to resolve our problem but that AA would not allow us to travel with DD1 in her state. We decided to all go to Houston and changed her ticket. We just made the flight – barely.
I had been okay in DW because I new that WW would be leaving in a few days. It was a bit like holding my breath – you can do it for a while. I had mixed emotions about her going to Houston. We had had a great time in DW and I was hopeful that we could work things out. However, in Houston, I sank deeper and deeper into a depression. I was depressed that very soon we would all go back to Saudi to exactly what we had left. Gemela also got into a depression. She became quiet and spoke little for days. I kept asking if something was wrong and she always replied that there wasn't. On about the fourth day of her silence, she told me she missed her family and wished she could go to Mexico. I got a little angry but told her by all means go. She was not making me happy in the least and I would gladly buy her a ticket to see her family but I wanted her gone for a respectable period of time. I told her she could contact the DDs any time but that I did not want to hear one word from her. I told her I needed a break from her and her A and that I hoped she would stay away long enough to make a decision as to what she wanted to do with her life. If she wanted D, all she had to do was say so. I would gladly give her one. She was making my life miserable and I was tired of her.
Anyway, we decided to leave DDs at the house when I took WW to IAH. Good call. Trip was quiet. We got to the airport. We checked her in and then sat down for a few minutes. I was angry again because DD1 was so upset when we left the house. I can't remember what all I said. I did tell her that if, on her return, she spent even on night in London that I was done and she got an automatic divorce.
Now here is the interesting part. She didn't say much during this whole conversation but she did say something to the effect "I am not saying I would do this but why did you tell me last week I could spend a week with OM and now you tell me I can't". I just went ballistic. I told her I was being sarcastic before. She said she missed that. I told her if she ever even spoke to OM on the phone, sent him an email or a birthday card, that I would get a divorce. This pretty much ended the conversation. Of all the things she could have said or asked about, why did she have to ask why I had changed my mind about letting her see OM.
Well we did speak a couple of times on the phone shortly after she got there and I told her how much she had upset me about the one week vacation. She says I misunderstood her. Now, here is where I definitely opinion and suggestion and I probably need a woman's POV too. I was upset because it seemed to me that she was upset that I was not giving her permission to see OM. Okay, her explanation for the comment was this: she was upset that I had apparently given her permission to go see OM and could not understand how I could possibly want her back in our M if it was okay with me that she saw OM. And do you know what? If I set my anger aside, I can almost believe her. We had at least one misunderstanding. The first one was her not recognizing that I was speaking with sarcasm when I mentioned the one week fu**fest. The second MAY be how each of us interpreted her remark at the airport. Giving her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she was concerned that she thought I felt that seeing OM was okay.
Anyway, it could have ended the M right there. Fortunately she left. I stewed about it for days but now it is all behind me. I have decided to not make any decisions until the time when WW does come back to Saudi. As angry as I was, if she had turned up in the Miami airport to catch the same BA flight as us back to Saudi and said that she knew I wanted a separation but that she was going to fight for her M, I would have respected that. That didn't happen. Now she is going to have to bust her a$$ to get back in this M. I am not going to give her any free ride. I am very detached from her and I have found that I don't need her. That is, in the long run, healthy even if we do get back together. Anyway, that is pretty much where things stand. I did post everything and I know things get overrun in this thread but that has its advantages too. I am more comfortable posting that way. If I can clear anything else up for you, just let me know.
I can easily stay separated indefinitely. I have no need for divorce because I will never get involved with a woman again. Even if I wanted to, my HPV is terrible. I have gone to wearing a thigh brace just to keep the sores on my inner thighs from rubbing against the sores on the things that rub against inner thighs. I can at least walk now without constant excruciating pain. I just tried the concept on a whim and it seems to work. I have had this outbreak (the second one) since January of this year and it shows no signs of abating.
Don't say unsolicited. I did say I was interested in it from the woman's perspective. The impression the WW was trying to give me was that she was uncertain about my feelings and that she did not understand how I could be okay with her seeing OM and telling her I still wanted the M. She might feel this is a foreign concept and doubt my sincerity. That is the impression she was trying to give me in our phone conversations. I have not changed my mind over my original interpretation. I am simply throwing this out there for scrutiny.
Because if she ever sees OM again - even just for a brief chat in the airport departure lounge, my marriage is absolutely over. I have suffered enough and she isn't worth any more suffering. I have done everything I could to try to keep the family intact but I am done. She needs to decide how she wants to spend her future. I am happy without her. In fact, I was thinking yesterday about how I have zero stress without her here. I don't have to worry about where she is, who she is calling, is she having another affair, who her enablers are. Nothing. My preference would be that she just calls one day and tells me she is never coming back. That is the ideal situation because it solves every problem. But we need to resolve something for the sake of the DDs. We can't just keep them hanging with "I'll see you soon" "When?" "Very soon".
Well let me throw this out there. Should I just keep quiet until WW comes back and see how it goes then or should I just contact her now and tell her I want indefinite separation and not have her come back? I can't imagine how having her back here will make me happy. I don't want that stress again. I am tempted to send her an email and tell her not to bother returning and we can work out a visitation schedule for the DDs. Any comments?
Did you ever get those 16mm science films in grade school? I remember really well done movies narrated by a guy I remember as being bald and something like a middle-aged Mr. Clean. Do you remember his name? I would love to see those old films again.
[color:"red"]!! FELIZ CUMPLEAÑOS PIO !! [/color] [color:"green"] ::::::::::::::::::::::::::: [/color]
[color:"blue"] My impression is that you are having a hard time expressing your desires and your needs and accepting G's desires and needs. She said she missed her family of origin, FO, and you understood that as if you and the DD's were not enough for her and as she wanted and opportunity to meet OM.
Considering how far you live and the diffentent cultural and social conditions of AS (SA?) I could imagine any woman or man living there as expat wanting some time out. I can imagine G getting sad when she was in Houston, knowing how easy it could be to spend some time with her family in Mx and facing having to go back to very far away SA. I don't think it was a matter of with or without her family, you and DD's. Because of the consecuences post affair I undertstand that she could not took DD's with her and I have the impression that she understands that.
If you two had had better comunications skills post affair, instead of considering she going to Mx to think, you could have talked to her about the NC letter and the compromise to work on the marriage, follow SAA guidelines or other of your choice and toss in the trip to US some days for G alone or all the family to go to MX, maybe instead of ten days in DW, five and five.
I have the total subjetive impression that you sister is very against G, maybe is only something post affair, dunno. I feel she influenced you in your reactions there, of course if she did you could have not let yourself be influenced by her, lol.
As far as I understand, G had never expend time far away from you since you two got married. She has had very limited time with her family, except for the years her mom were with you in Dubai. To me is not unreasonable that she has some time to herself and her family, not in the context of and ongoing affair of course, and not in withdrawl.
When you say you expected her or wouldn't mind if she had appeared in Miami, makes me wonder why you didn't say exactly that to her. You could have told her how you felt and turned the page to recovery if she had agreed and if at any point she had broken her compromise you could have taken other mesures.
What I see is that you remain in the same page post affair. Not recovery, not divorce. Althought you say it's because of G that things are not defined I think you need the plan of recovery and guide her through it.
I read what you wrote about your childhood and teen years. I beg your forgiveness if I overstep in my next comments. I and my SXBF (soon to be ex boyfriend) had verbal and physical abuse in our childhoods. His stepfather was very violent towards him. We had worked before we met our own issues with pysis help and one thing we find we have in commun related to past abuse is that we find some times difficult to resolve conflict or difference of opinions. We want to 'make the other happy' and we both go to great lenghts to please the other. Sometimes I ask him to do something in a certain way and he tries to agree, he tries to be reasonable but then he builts a resentment, it's very easy that he feels rejected. So, once I feel this hiden resentment or disapointment I have to go back and ask him again how does he feels about what I'm asking him. Once the resentment is there he's able to tell me why he didn't agree with me, even when he had agreed and he tells me what he excepected and why my request disappointed him. Once I know how he feels I try to ponder for whom is more important to do or not do something. The ideal negotiation would be the POJA, Policy of Joint Agreement, that as far as I understand should be made having the best interest of the other in mind. (I know you know about POJA I just wanted to mention the part about where it should be supported, in the thought of each other having the best interest of the other in mind.)
If I had expressed more clearly the feelings and the needs that made me want to do something and he had expressed his feelings and needs instead of jumping to agree to do something, he wouldn't have resented to do something that caused him some disappointment or I wouldn't have asked him to do something that would make him feel disappointed.
People like me, that had some roughness in their childhood are not very good at feeling other peoples emotional needs, it's either my taker, pleaser or my giver who's in charge and I find it very helpfull to know how people feels, what are they expectations, their needs.
I really think you have to cut G some slack and soft the way you deal with her. Let her see the man, not the ruler or the provider. I have the sensation that you feel she has taken advantage so badly of you that at each step of your interactions with her you are trying to prove that you are nobody fool, dealing with someone in that frame of mind gets tiring after a while.
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say? Do I leave her in Mexico indefinitely?
Quote
I have the sensation that you feel she has taken advantage so badly of you that at each step of your interactions with her you are trying to prove that you are nobody full, dealing with someone in that frame of mind gets tiring after a while.
Can you try this part again? It starts out okay but I get lost.
Sorry I shouldn't attempt to write in English at this hour of the day. Lol. I corrected some spelling mistakes already.
I think you should talk to her and talk and talk and talk.
First you have to know if she's ready to compromise to NC for life and write the NC letter. Then you talk about what you expect of her, and you hear what she expects from you.
I don't know if you should leave her there or no. I think it should be a POJA decision. No threats on either side. If she compromises to NC for life, you compromise to not to talk about it. You can have time for radical honesty but outside of planned talks about the relationship and the affair you don't mention OM.
You sound, to me, almost rude or unnecesary 'cut and dry' on your recent comunications with G and her family of origin.
Well I think for now I just need to go back to pretending she doesn't exist. Reliving all that airport stuff for my post to lemonman obviously got me angry again. I am much better off not thinking about gemela at all. It only makes me unhappy when I do. The thing is, I just can't imagine ever being happy with her again. She is nothing but dishonest. I can only hope she stays away for a good long while.
Rude to gemela? Do you think she deserves kindness? I don't intend to be rude. She just needs things spelled out very clearly. She is very good at selective hearing. She probably also sugar coats a lot of this with her family. I doubt she has told FIL about the affair to this day.
Anyway, no more about gemela but I would like to hear lemonman's thoughts and then I will let it all die. It just galls me that even after all this time she could even think I would give her permission to go on a week-long vacation with OM. That just isn't normal that she could even believe that is a moral thing to do. What kind of mother do my children have?
Pio, I don't know why it seems you have also selective hearing, sorry, and selective editing, too. You fixates in one part and don't move from there.
I feel your anger and your pain, I keep feeling it, you have not worked it.
The whole theory of MB, or marriage recovery is that relationships are restored with effort and time and that experience has shown that a family is better to rise children. You think it would take a lot of effort to restor your marriage? Now think about of more than one decade of your life dealing with exchanging DD's. Divorce is harder than recovery.
You have to work through your pain, G can help you but the main part has to be done by you.
I think she has been dishonest during one period of your relationship. I don't think she has been dishonest all the time. I think we all deserve kidness or at least not rudeness. What rude people shows, to me, is that they have anger issues and frustrations issues.
You don't have to forgive her but you could. You could take the highway but I don't think you would be happy because you have your own issues, not affair related but issues nevertheless. I don't think you deserved the affair. Nobody would blame you if you divorce.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Now stop being rude and give me my third star back that is not fun.
G can help you but the main part has to be done by you.
Sorry but I don't see gemela making any effort at all. She keeps love letters, asks for permission to go visit OM. How exactly is she helping me again? I am missing something. I told her before that I cannot get over the A until she does. That only seems fair.
Just to add some information, what is considered abuse in MB theory.
Demands
Disrespect
Anger
Every one is capable of becoming abusive, temporarely or permanently and we tend to be blind to our own misgivins.
BS that have been abused can become abusive themselves trying to control the WS and the marital situation.
I have had anger issues in the past and that's how I got to MB. I discovered in my case that anger was a coping mechanism for me. I felt people had taken advantage of me in the past and that I needed to be very defensive and 'nononsense'. It was also born in the feeling that I had not control over my life, my problem was that I put the control of my life in the hands and decisions of other people instead of concentrating on the only person I could control, myself.
Okay larousse but how exactly is gemela trying to help me? I see the opposite. If that is the case, I am better off on my own am I not? How is gemela trying to protect my feelings?
I don't know if she's trying to protect your feelings. Maybe a little, I don't know. Maybe she has tried to protect them in the way WW do, keeping information.
I think you should tell her very simple, with out anger or demands what do you need from her.
You have seen here that for most XWW it has been a process to realize to which extend they had to change their behavior and their ideas about relationships. It tooks them a while.
My opinion about G is that she doesn't have the knowlege that you have about affairs. She doesn't have a solid, constant, religious practice and she doesn't have a theory formation or therapy that had shown her what we know. She follows the partern of the culture that's outside, the culture of follow your heart and your desires and all that about love infatuation. You have to tell her thing by thing what you need from her. No friendship with males, no male teachers for outside activities for DD's. No secrets and nothing related to the affair kept by her.
I think you believe in Regreted pain and remorse, yet she looked for the song that she had listened with OM. Regreted is getting to the point of realizing that she can't indulge in thoughts about OM. Kiwi, being so in love to SuperRob, had a coffe with XOM some months ago. She didn't want to reconect the affair but she talked to him.
I'm telling you this so you see that it's not something isolated of bad G. It's the whole dynamic of affairs. G needs the theory too to change her ideas, her sentimental education and that is a process.
So then, if we can just recap your advice, what I understand you are suggesting is:
1) I take this vacation from gemela to my personal advantage 2) I do NOT tell her to stay away forever 3) I let her come back and see what happens 4) When she comes back, I am respectful and open
1)She compromises to NC, write letter with your help and advice from here and you send it.
2) She compromises to work through the guidelines of SAA
-15 hrs weekly of undivided attention During this 15 hrs you give each other: 1 Affection 2 Comunication, talk 3 Entretainment companionship 4 SF
-You two agree two resolve conflict using the 4 tools of MB and POJS. -You too agree to the Policy of Radical Honesty and practice it also during the time both of you set aside to work to anything affair related. :::::::::::::....
What do you do in the shor term? I don't know. I would say you start to talk, but not before you take hold of your anger and you talk to her openly, without assumptions.
Once you start to talk you ask her openly the simple question, I need you to have no contact with OM forever.
You can explain her why there is no chance of recovery unless she compromises to that.
If she agrees to that and to work on the marriage, then it's going to be up to the logistic of the two of you when she can go back to SA.
I agree with everything you say but what I am saying is that something very important has to happen first. That thing is gemela needs to decide she really wants it. If she takes that first step, I'll walk with her. She has always known that. She just hasn't wanted to give up her fantasy life.
I don't know why I'm talking to you. You stole my star. You must be one of those pluton's thieves.
::::::::::::::::::::
I see the situation a little bit as what was first the chicken or the egg.
You say you need G to decide if she really wants it. She has told you in the past that she wants to remain married and she has made several efforts days after day to keep the family together. But... She kept the cards, the pics, and she hasn't open completely to you. Yet... She has made attempts to talk to you about the affair, at least in two ocasions and you haven't let her.
I think things in the marriage progressed some and then frozen because the trial separation kept in the middle of your discussions for months. Because there was NC declaration and you didn't have a recovery plan in place.
:::::::::::::
I'm not sure I understand your conflict or your position. The ideas I have tried to share with you are my interpretation of MB, because I'm not therapist and I don't have psy formation at all.
MB says that the only condition to recover a marriage is NC and the disposition to work on the marriage.
From my point of view both of you had that but it was not clear stablished. I think G got to a point of NC with OM and she has tried to work on the marriage.
What the BS can't do is to leave to the good will of the WW the time and the way in which she stablished no contact, he has to be persitant in that and you were and you got it.
The emotional part, the withdrawl and the rejection of everything that has to do with an affair is differnt for each XWW.
I don't think that to work on the marriage you have to have the complete security that G won't think anymore on OM. It's a process and with time XWW's get to realize that it was only infatuation.
You seem to need something that at some points in the pasts months G has tried to show you. For G keeping the cards was not a betrayal. Why? Because for her as for millions of persons, there was not malice in keeping some mementos. We know diffent but she doesn't. We know that any love thought given to another person outside the marriage it's infidelity.
So the very important thing that you think has to happen in your marriage has happend in less visible ways but because you have understandable resentments and your own withdrawl you haven't being able to give a consistent follow up to the improvements in the marriage.
Happy belated Birthday Piojitos! I wish you peace.
Todd must be sleeping in after his festive night of music & drink.
Larousse: you're spending lots of time here for a woman with her BF visiting from far a way.
Here's my LONG tale of future employment woe.
My educational background is in education & art. I cobbled together a bachelor's degree over the last couple of years of the two which is referred to as independent studies. I didn't stick with education because I didn't think I wanted to teach. I discovered my artistic leanings & went in that direction.
A zillion years later here I am divorced & needing to make a living. I have 5 years of a decent settlement (closer to 4 now) which will allow me time to get myself together. I still need to work but I can afford to work part time & go back to school for my master's if need be. My 3 boys are 15, 12 & 11.
I've substitued over this past school year & have taught adults pottery for 3 or 4 years. I also make & sell my work but it's no where near being able to provide a living. I love teaching adults & like teaching grade school kids.
The choices I've considered so far are going back to school for my master's in elementary education or art education or not going back at all but finding something I can without further education. What, I don't have a clue, but working with adults in an artistic capacity has a lot of appeal.
Two schools in my area offer internships for elementary ed. This means I intern at a school for one school year, go to school at night & my master's gets paid for. One school wants me to take 4 additional undergrad classes. I'm in the process of finding out the requirements of the other school. The first school is very close 15 min. the other about 45 min. The whole process taking about one year, more if I have to take the 4 undergrad classes.
If I do decide to teach I'd prefer to teach art. For this I'd have to go to a school about 1 hour 20 min. away or lookinto the neighboring state which might be closer but won't allow me to teach in my own state. I looked into this last winter but put it aside for two reasons. Distance & the practicality of finding a job. Instead I focused on the elementary ed. due to the practicality & the internship possibility.
I love school so I don't mind going back but it needs to benefit me in terms of future employment. It would be nice if it were something I really enjoy not just theories of education.
Something very important in cases of infidelity which I think often gets overlooked is love for the WW spouse. I'm not talking about the verb love but the feeling. The desire to WANT to be the the WW spouse.
Intellectually we know the best place for the children is within a HEALTHY HAPPY family. Intellectually we know tossing a marriage doesn't mean guaranteed happiness in the future. Sometimes a place in your heart just does not exist for the person who betrayed you. Certainly there are people who get past it & go on to live in healthy happy marriages. I don't think it's a shortcoming that some simply don't have a place in their heart for the betrayer.
For me there would have always been a seed of doubt, an inability to fully trust & give myself again. No matter how hard I would have worked at the machanics of healing the marriage (given the opportunity) those factors would have still been there.
Oh my larousse! Dying your eyelashes sounds very dangerous. Now why would a, presumably, dark Latina need to dye already dark eye lashes? How about an eyelash curler with mascara?
LOL larousse. When I lived in Spain I noticed the women were very put together & would appraise one another with frank stares. Though I take care with my appearance I do not dress in heals for the store. To be fair though the morning shopping is quite social there. One is not only shopping but is out to be seen.
Are your lashes lovely?
What's the situation with your BF's visit? Inquiring (nosey) minds want to know.
...that's only because it's raining here in...QUEBEC, Todd, so...can't get ahead with my painting job...since I am so new at this, it takes me forever...
...WS had to put his .02 worth and 'finalized' the paint job I started while I was at work.....but there is lots more to do.....guess he didn't want to be left in the dust by his little BW.....
Hi Pio... don't think you can stop Kiwi from making a cake if she wants to....
Geesh...MEN.....control...control....control....
Happy 'belated' birthday, PIO!!!!!!
Larousse??? ...two dead S..??? What's up with that!
Pio, I don't think you should have such high expectations of G.... which is what I think fuels your anger (which may really be...Pio hurting....but doesn't want to show it?)
I think you should make her aware of your pre-requisites for R whenever....., which are basically your 'boundaries' and are 'dealbreakers' if not met..... and that you are not prepared to 'move forward' with R until she consents to them AND follows up with CONCRETE ACTIONS...because, words are cheap as you know ....and let her stew over them..... be ready to clarify any points she may not understand... without ANGER....give examples if needed.... and keep in mind that G. is 'ignorant' of MB principles.....and it will take WHATEVER.... until she gets it! ...but you have to be patient and not get 'mad' if she doesn't 'get it' on your schedule, OK? ...that's my .02 worth....
...would you all be insulted if I confessed that this thread is my excuse for not 'doing' some much needed housework? ...it WILL get done....at some point....not sure when!
Well....I have left my MARK.....talking to myself!
....I have one last option to consider.... before HOUSEWORK.... I'll see if there is anything in TVland..... the Comedy Channel is one of my favourites ever since a got cable this summer... and movies! ....I didn't realize it... but seeing a 'neat' movie really hits the spot!
....you can guess that one of the other reasons I have soooo much time on my hands is because THE boys are not here with me (not my week!)...... otherwise I would have to FIGHT with them for computer time.....
...life in the 'fastlane' is really hard, you know!
You are leaving a legacy of posts to yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Superman does not need to sleep. He can choose to sleep. I slept last night as a choice. It is quite liberating. I hate sleeping. It is such a waste of time.
I have not cooked. I ate at the Mexican restaurant last night. Too much pico de gallo I fear. It was very hot - too hot for me - and so today, I pay the piper. Ugh.
As for larousse and her eyelashes, my WW never dyed her eyelashes AFAIK but hers are so long it is pathetic. Fortunately, my sons inherited her eyelashes and the ladies seem to like the long eyelashes on them.
Now, I have studied and analyzed larousse's posts for a long time today. I have concluded how she killed her previous two BF's and undoubtedly, the same fate awaits the current one who desires to buy an engagement ring out of a coin operated machine, or perhaps the fabled, elusive diamond ring in a Cracker Jack box. She dyed their eyelashes and like the cheap glue on the wedding invitation envelopes that George bought, she used an inferior dye that leeched into their brains and well, the rest is history as they say. Despite larousse's fabled eyelashes, I seriously doubt that men are lined outside her door, if only because they desire to live a little longer.
I am hopping around here. Let's see, who fees the deer? Larousse's BF? We used to feed the deer 100 lbs of deer corn a week. Beautiful things to watch, except that they fight over the corn. Apparently in nature, they are okay. Perhaps the abundance of trees and grass causes them to instinctively calculate no short supply. But 30 lbs. or so of deer corn strewn on the ground must look attractive, yet feeble to them, so it is every deer for himself. Another pattern I noticed is that a Doe will chase off every other deer, including bucks, to ensure that her fawns get enough food. Do not get between a mother and her young. I am reasonably sure this applies to any species, including humans.
Okay, hopping back to Luna. So it is raining in Quebec? Unless I have my members confused, you had asked whether your WH should still function as the handyman for y'all's (like the double apostophre?) properties. Or was that Nams. I am so confused. Anyway, I would do the things you can do and hire a handyman to do the rest. I would not invoke the services of WH as handyman. Plan B seems to be absolute and I would keep the house dark so to speak.
Okay, the issue arose as whether one could "control" kiwi to not bake a cake. What person would want to stand in the way of someone baking a cake? Especially if it is a red velvet cake. Have you had red velvet cake? Oh my goodness, it is the zenith of cakes.
I know I am missing something here but I think I am going to be sick. Gotta go. No time to edit, sorry.
Nams, will get to your career/education issues in a little while.
Unless I have my members confused, you had asked whether your WH should still function as the handyman
Yes...Todd...that would be me!
Quote
Plan B seems to be absolute and I would keep the house dark so to speak.
If only things were that simple...where I live is 'off limits' for WS....but where I live has several apts and we have tenants.... I am letting WS handle the 'tenants' and at best 'outside' maintenance....because we are co-owners and I do believe he has the legal right to share in the 'responsibilities'.... and to be honest.... it would be too much for me, anyway!.... I view it as the same way we share 'responsibilities' of the boys! ....where I LIVE.... that's another story...if I can't do it myself.... I hire! He left...so....I am in 'charge' of chez moi!!!!!
Quote
I know I am missing something here but I think I am going to be sick.
Hate to say it....but it looks like you were right....
Quote
I ate at the Mexican restaurant last night. Too much pico de gallo I fear. It was very hot - too hot for me - and so today, I pay the piper. Ugh.
Poor Lunamare, carrying on a one way conversation. I understand completely. I will do practically anything to avoid house work.
I'm working myself up in quite a state over the choices I'll need to make about my employment future. One friend referred to it as a funk. Close.
As to you having your WH working on property you own...difficult. I've made a deal with ex, he can leave his crap here if he does maintenance on the house. Granted you & I are in very different places regarding spouses, mine is ex yours is in the dark.
Is this property you own together? Will you benefit from keeping it maintained, or from the sale if it needs to be sold? If it's easy enough for you to share the work with your H why not have him share the load. Send him a letter with needed work & a schedule for splitting the work. Be prepared for him to show up when you don't want him there & decide if the inconvenience of that is worth the work he'll do.
However, in Superman's defense, it is now clear that the peppers were laced with Kryponite dust. Ergo, my reaction is understandable and defensible, right?
I'm working myself up in quite a state over the choices I'll need to make about my employment future.
...Sorry if I don't offer any advice, Nams....I don't feel I have a 'grasp' of your situation, yet....
Quote
Nams, will get to your career/education issues in a little while.
...but then...we seem to have our 'resident' superman who may have suggestions for you to consider....as soon as he gets over last night's supper!
Quote
As to you having your WH working on property you own...difficult. I've made a deal with ex, he can leave his crap here if he does maintenance on the house. Granted you & I are in very different places regarding spouses, mine is ex yours is in the dark.
Is this property you own together? Will you benefit from keeping it maintained, or from the sale if it needs to be sold? If it's easy enough for you to share the work with your H why not have him share the load. Send him a letter with needed work & a schedule for splitting the work. Be prepared for him to show up when you don't want him there & decide if the inconvenience of that is worth the work he'll do.
....I communicate with WS via email re boys and finances as nothing 'legal' is in place yet....with my PLAN B, I have made it clear to WS that I will not 'see or talk' to him until OW is out of the picture and that he wishes to recommit to M...right now he is choosing not to...and I will respect that .....so...anything he does...will be done while I am not around!
Yes..we own the property together.... were we to sell it, we would both lose financially.... don't think I could afford to 'buy him' out and vice-versa.... ...and would have to consider 'moving'....I am not there, yet......so some 'creative' solutions will have to be worked out.... and as our boys will 'eventually' inherit what we have....that will be taken into account at some level.....
..but for now....my main focus is to create a 'stable' homelife for the boys and myself.... and am doing pretty good in that area..... financial and legal stuff will have to follow at some point.....and WS is being 'respectful' about my PLAN B even though I know he can't figure out where I am going with this.... but then that's his problem.... I know I like PLAN B..... because he can't 'talk me' into believing such things as..... that meeting OW was fate....as she is his 'soulmate'.....and he could do nothing about it.... and so he had 'nothing' to do with the whole A happening!
....WS respected my opinion in the past... so....I do believe my NOT buying into his 'plan'..... seems to be a 'big' thorn on his side!....
In the meantime, while WS is in fogland, I am doing by best, after 20-yr marriage, to learn how to function on my own, learn about myself, etc etc....although it's not what I would have chosen....I AM trying to make the best of a bad situation.....
I will book mark your post and look into it later. There is a lot of truth to what you say but, for the moment, it is moot. I say it is moot because, for all I know, WW and OM may run off into the sunset and start a pool cleaning business and live happily ever after. I have no idea if gemela will even come back so I don't want to spend my time and effort think about "what ifs". I did want to get lemonman's input and I will bookmark that to if he posts but, after that, it is back to reality.
I was so tired yesterday from jet-lag (still), nightmares (not mine - DD nachtmares which naturally take up the rest of my nacht), execrise schedule, etc. I was beat when I got home yesterday. DD2 and I finished her homework and then I had to lasso DD1 and get hers. Being the first week of school homework, the teachers fel the need to send War and Peace sized instructions home. I have all these forms to fill out, etc. I felt like I was cramming for finals. Finally DD1 got finished and then, of all the nerve, they wanted dinner. I mean they had just had lunch a few hours earlier. I am tired ot coddling these kids. When I was a kid, we were lucky if we ate once a week and we were thankful for it but these girls expect to eat three times a day? I was sleepwalking. Did they eat anything? Oh, yes - spaghetti. Now I remember. Then I had to hog tie them to get them into the shower. They wanted to bath themselves last night (sometimes they do - sometimes they don't) so I laid down while they were in the shower and I don't remember anything else until they started arguing over who got to watch Mermaidia. The answer turned out to be neither one. I made them their respective milks (one chocolate one strawberry), got down their blankets which the maid, for some unknown reason feels compelled to put in the closet every night, tucked them in and then tucked myself in. This is the most I have slept in 2 weeks. The maid thinks she can break my will over the blankets but she has no idea who she is dealing with. We did have one showdown yesterday. When I got home and went upstairs to change, I found my alarm clock flashing. I asked if the power had gone off. No. I showed the clock to the maid. Apparently she decided that outlet was the most convenient to plug in the vacuum. She won't be doing that any more. So I got the time and both alarms reset after calling 963 to get the time because our time and the rest of the world's time almost never coincide and unfortunately our entire city operates on our 963 time.
So being full-time single dad takes a lot of hours which is okay because my job allows me to do it. I don't like being supervisor of my unit because I don't want any responsibility but at least it gives me the luxury of dumping all my travel requirements on others. If not, I would have to leave the DDs here with the maid alone for periods of time and I don't want to do that.
Right now I am not going to waste a lot of time thinking about gemela or a possible future. I may never see her again so why bother? If she ever does grace our doorstep again, I will follow every MB principle and see where it goes. Right now I have to go see the schedule and see who has PE today, get snacks readym put homework back in backpacks and then go lie down a few minutes before exercise time.
Thanks for taking the time to post all that. I do appreciate it and have read it a couple of times but now will file it away until some future date and go back to forgetting about gemela.
lunamare,
Do you watch Jon Stewart and the Colbert Report? Those are my two favorites on the comedy channel. I think they run back-to-back.
OMG I was putting all the homework in their proper folders and in their respective backpacks and just checking to calendar to see if it is PE day (which I see it is) but I saw a note that DD2 has to wear yellow today - and green tomorrow! OMG!
I have no idea if gemela will even come back so I don't want to spend my time and effort think about "what ifs"...
Sounds like a good plan...and besides...I see that being a full-time dad is keeping you busy enough!
Quote
Do you watch Jon Stewart and the Colbert Report? Those are my two favorites on the comedy channel. I think they run back-to-back.
You're ma man.....talking the same language! Just love those two! ....stuck with re-runs right now...can't wait for their 'new season' to start....in the meantime, re-runs will do...I don't catch everything the first time around, anyway!
Luna, You crack me up...I too will do most anything to avoid housework but it is always waiting for me no matter how I try to hide from it. I have mastered the laundry mountain and have been living off of it for 2 weeks...keep washing, drying and piling and then play needle in the haystack for specific clean clothes...broke down and bought 4 more laundry baskets to sort the clean mountain, iron and hang. I am 1/2 way there!!!! Cheers, the wave, standing O
Kiwi, Wish I was good at baking, just not my niche
Pio, Happy B-day...least G was away...I turned 40 right in front of my H's eyes and never got a greeting card let alone anything else...sad thing was there was no one to remind my kids and buy a gift from them for me or have a cake...my 5 year old asked weeks later why we never celebrated Mommy's b-day:(
All TKO folks, In a nutshell...I have been sticking to my deal with Pio and not snooping and being cordial regardless of the fogdriven behaviors of H. He spazzed at me last night when after he had gone out to a friends he came home and crawled in bed and then asked me if I was going to sleep...b/c as I could have predicted...he was going back out if I was going to sleep. He came in at 1030 pm and talked to the DDs by that time it was 11pm...he stated he did not want to watch TV...hhhhhmmmmm, he couldn't come up with anything else to do...we started talking and I asked him a financial question and he went off, temper tantrum and yep, back to the friends house.
So today, he comes home from work at 6:30pm...eats, showers and dresses in nice clothing...I ask if he is going out and he gets pissed...now folks, he doesn't dress like that to sit around the house...I'm supposed to believe he is dressing like that for his friend...whatever you say pal. I ask why he treats me like that and we get into a discussion where basically he says he still hasn't decided if he wants to be married...he says he cut out all the OWs and now has a few male friends that are his new support system...he has no desire to spend time with me (his statement) and that he doesn't want to be around the kids b/c I am a part of that package. I tell him he could always take the kids out and do something...he says I wouldn't like them being around his friends...I say he is right and ask why he can't do something alone with his kids...he says his friends ask him to bring the kids out to play ball but he doesn't want me coming b/c "I don't like you".
I at that point said I was going out.. in the past hour had 2 foul texts from him asking if I was going to get some XXXX and then asking if I had any luck...if so to send photos...I haven't responded to either message
I am so at my whit's end. Before I left he said that nothing is ever enough...he cut out OWs and is only spending time with male friends (of whom I have never met). I said I didn't have a problem with him spending time with his new buddies but that if we were working on our M he needed to make some time for me...that was when he said he didn't like me.
Ok, sorry for the novel but I need your help...if I had a sidearm there would have been injuries!
Testing your resolve. What you describe is beyond cruel. A WH with that attitude is not on a fence - he is out the door. You have recently implemented a major paradigm shift. He could be trying to push every button he can to see if you yield. My suggestion is to keep doing what you are doing. First of all, it can't do any damage (except to your ego). If your M is to have a chance, I recommend you stick to our deal. I did it a long time and I remember how much it hurts. I am sorry for that for you. But even so, you will still be happier if you don't let him lead you around and take you where he wants you to go. He is confused enough on his own. You confused him more with your attitude change. JMO.
The other answer is that he is just a sick, cruel monster. I doubt that is the case or you would not be trying to save your M.
Do you know what this thread reminds me of? Did any of you ever see the old Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer Christmas special narrated by Burl Ives (as the snowman)? Outside this thread are people recovering the marriages, recently past Dday, formulating plans, trying to save marriages. We are the Island of misfit toys. Remember the "Charlie in a box"? The wagon with square wheels? All hoping that some day Santa will come and rescue us. Oddly enough, that is my favorite part of that whole show - when the toys have finally given up in despair because of the storm. They have decided that they will wait and hope for yet another year - and then they hear jingles...and see a red light...
I scrapbooked a couple of my wedding pages today. I went upstairs with a pair of scissors and cut some of the lace off the hem of my wedding gown to put on the pages. It was all yellow with age (32 years is quite a long time) so I sprayed it with stain remover and handwashed it.
The pages are beautiful, even without the lace, which will go on when it's dry.
I do love the original Rudolph as well...and yes, I feel like a misfit toy...irony is I look better than I have in 10 years...aside from my real age, I am back to looking like I did when I was 28...ok, gravity has taken it's toll but otherwise, at least in clothing with some Victoria Secret assistance I am hot...this makes me livid b/c for years I felt inadequate next to my H's best "friend" a size 2 marathon running beauty.
I wish that I did not love him or the idea of what he used to be...it would be soooooo much easier. My kindness and persistance is killing him. Prior to my deal with you I called him on his crap and asked if he was just trying to push everybutton to make me tell him that I want the D...of course he never acknowledged this strategy as one he was employing but I really feel it is. He is just messed up...has alot of past repressed issues that he has never dealt with and spends his life running away through escape. Things are way too close for comfort for him...I thought almost loosing all of us instantly would have been a revalation for him but that hasn't made a bit of difference.
I wish he would just disappear and leave us alone...we could be happy and move on with our lives. We actually have a lot of fun without him and when he is home he doesn't participate...he only says mean things to make us feel bad. DD1 is on to him big time and it won't be long before it becomes irrepairable for him. She is afraid to tell him how she feels and I don't blame her. I told her I could listen and comfort her but that I wasn't covering for dad anymore...told her she would have to talk to him herself if she had a problem with his behavior or lack of...it is soooooooooooooooo heartbreaking:(
I wish he would just disappear and leave us alone...we could be happy and move on with our lives.
It does take its toll. Sooner or later, one of you will break. In the ieantime, the withdrawals from your love bank continue to increase exponentially. I still think you need to be on your best Plan A before you go to Plan B.
I was thinking of burning mine but now with your creativity maybe I'll wait...there are lots of uses for pieces of wedding dress...ok, now I am thinking more in the Fatal Attraction mode, I must return to sipping my wine here in the cafe and deep breathe!!!
Actually Pio you are on to something...not so much the military training as the religious influences...I feel like this is more of a spiritual warfare...If you ever read the Left Behind series...I aspire to be like Irene, Rayford's wife who was taken in the rapture...I don't think Rayford was quite like my H though...hhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm
LOL...are you serious? If you are, I love ToddAC more and more each post...I am cracking up...not sure this part of the tumor attack therapy prescribed by oncologists????
Todd where are you??? I would shake your hand if you were in my world! Be careful...sounds like the booze bug runs in Toddville...wife, son...don't join them, beat them!
Guess he really gets into the character...in that case, I would like to audition and play the part of Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally or City of Angels...
Ok, I'd settle for any romance movie with a happy ending at this point in life
I don't recall City of Angels having a happy ending. As far as auditioning for the part in When Harry met Sally, are you talking about the diner scene? I'll give that a miss if you don't mind.
I'm off to get the right shoes by the right backpacks and pick out yellow clothes for DD2 to wear and "cool" clothes for DD1.
No, not the diner scene...just the fact that it has a good ending after lots of frustration and trials...City of Angels has a peaceful ending...doesn't get the girl but very serene ending
Good luck with the DDs fashion issues...I live that challenge daily with mine
Todd where are you??? I would shake your hand if you were in my world! Be careful...sounds like the booze bug runs in Toddville...wife, son...don't join them, beat them!
2much,
Have you ever heard that Dave Mathews song: Talk too Much? Not sure that is the name of the song but you get the idea.
"Talk too much Drink too much".
See, we do have something in common. You talk and I drink.
I don't mean to imply that your talking drove me to drinking. No, nothing like that. It actually was the sweet music of the Mariachi. They were absolutely incredible.
Not to worry. Seriously, I overreport how much I drink. Truth is, I don't drink much at all. Okay, so tonight is an exception. JK.
I do talk too much...my 3rd child inherited this gift
Diner scene: in a resteraunt an old guy says, "I'll have what she is having" when Meg Ryan is proving that a woman can fake the mighty O...she is demonstrating the sound effects while at the table with Harry
Well I am just going from memory but I think you put the lime in the coconut and drink it all up. Or is it the coconut in the lime? I admit I really don't know the percentages.
I paused before I answered b/c I figured that was the case...as usual, my nievity allowed the talk too-much part of me to answer knowing it was probably a rhetorical Q
Boy....I am not totally familiar with your situation...but you got one heck of a WS on your hands!
If it wasn't for your deal with Pio.....
...but then when I think of my WS....he was just as bad if not worse... when WS decided to move out.... I didn't hold him back.... I was totally taken aback by his 'cruelty'.... actually...I think I was in SHOCK!
....my signature line says it all.....went into PLAN B for my sanity!
....don't know how you do it, 2much!
....Please don't tolerate the abuse for toooo long...if you are in PLAN A....I think you are allowed to be honest about your hurt feelings....and tell your WS that you would prefer being treated with respect.... even if he doesn't!
....in my case, the insensitivity and selfishness of WS was really what set him apart from S.... and I was in shock because the 'change' seemed to be sooooo sudden..... learned what it meant to have the 'rug pulled from right under your feet'.....
Once WS moved out, it didn't take me long to decide to go to PLAN B.... WS was too much for me to take!
...I hope you stick to a timeline to put an end to being subjected to the 'abuse'....
Hi Todd...glad to hear you are 'surviving' last night's supper....
....Isn't a little too early to start thinking about Christmas songs?
...Any Bob Dylan fans out there?...Just saw a bio. on him.... I was pretty impressed with the man's achievements!
....Yes oh yes.... the answer is blowing somewhere in the wind!
...Any Bob Dylan fans out there?...Just saw a bio. on him.... I was pretty impressed with the man's achievements!
....Yes oh yes.... the answer is blowing somewhere in the wind!
I was a Dylan fan before being a Dylan fan was cool Then somewhere back there in the seventies or eighties, I went to one of his concerts. He was so stoned, he could not perform. I lost all respect for him. I have not bought an album since.
I still like some of his songs. My favorites are "Positively 4th Street" and "Like a Rolling Stone".
Since that time, I started following Jackson Browne and quickly realized that he is the most intelligent songwriter out there.
Luna, Thanks for your support and empathy. If I didn't still have feelings and 3 kids I would have went directly to plan D. I have my deal with Pio till Oct, then I told H that if he passed up the deal to house sit for a year I would allow him to stay in the house even if we decided to D until Spring 07 due to multiple reasons. He told me tonight he is not doing the house sitting. In the past 2 weeks H has supposedly cut ties with OWs, given up his "out" of housesitting, spent more time with family. He says it is never enough for me...I think that if any of what he is saying is true then he is going through withdrawal and taking out all of his anger on me hoping that I push him back to the OWs or that I become the excuse for him to go running back...I refuse to do it. If he wants a batchelor lifestyle he can openly announce it and take credit and consequences for it...I refuse to be a part of it.
I think that if any of what he is saying is true then he is going through withdrawal and taking out all of his anger on me hoping that I push him back to the OWs or that I become the excuse for him to go running back...I refuse to do it. If he wants a batchelor lifestyle he can openly announce it and take credit and consequences for it...I refuse to be a part of it.
Are you divorced or still in plan B?
I am in PLAN B....
I know what you mean... I also 'stuck it out'...because I also think my WS would have preferred that I 'kick him out'....so he could say, 'see...BS kicked me out!'.....
In my case....WS refused NC with OW....although he is chosing not to live with OW.....I think he wants a 'bachelor life'.....however, he isn't asking for a D...thinks 'moving out' is sufficient.... guess he expects me to the legwork for D.....since I don't want a D.....I will re-evaluate my position at a 2-yr mark......next summer....
I apologize. I really do like Dylan. He just upset me at that concert. I didn't have much money in those days and.... well you get the idea.
Al Kooper is a musical icon and probably the least known of his kind. He was originally a musican, quickly turned producer. If I remember correctly, he discovered The Zombies.
Anyway, he was the founding member of Blood Sweat and Tears long before David Clayton Thomas arrived on the scene. Anyway again, side A of Super Session is Kooper with Steven Stills and it is an acoustic rock sort of studio session. In fact, they do the Dylan song, "It Takes a Lot to Laugh, It takes a Train to Cry". But the centerpiece of side A and of the entire album is their thirteen minute version of Donovan's "Season of the Witch".
Side B is with Mike Bloomfield, easily the best and least known electric blues guitar player. Great stuff. Anyway, I have recommended the album to many friends and they have offered their profuse thanks over the years.
I apologize. I really do like Dylan. He just upset me at that concert. I didn't have much money in those days and.... well you get the idea.
...Yes....I do!
Quote
Al Kooper is a musical icon and probably the least known of his kind. He was originally a musican, quickly turned producer. If I remember correctly, he discovered The Zombies.
Anyway, he was the founding member of Blood Sweat and Tears long before David Clayton Thomas arrived on the scene. Anyway again, side A of Super Session is Kooper with Steven Stills and it is an acoustic rock sort of studio session. In fact, they do the Dylan song, "It Takes a Lot to Laugh, It takes a Train to Cry". But the centerpiece of side A and of the entire album is their thirteen minute version of Donovan's "Season of the Witch".
Side B is with Mike Bloomfield, easily the best and least known electric blues guitar player. Great stuff. Anyway, I have recommended the album to many friends and they have offered their profuse thanks over the years.
....Todd??? I think your 'memory' is doing pretty good....
Well, DS3 is so much like me it is amazing. He and I do not know the meaning of "give up". He is relentless. I find myself trying to think of the right thing to say to him. Although I will give this M one last run, I am not optimistic. To be clear, I am abundantly pessimistic. WW has backpeddled on her affair. We're "just friends". It sickens me becaue I know OM is behind her latest claim. I overheard the conversation.
So, I tread that thin ground between trying to appear reasonable on the one hand and introducing my son to reality of our family unit because of his Mom's stupid decisions on the other. It is tough. He is not one to accept ambiguity.
My sons mean more to me than anything in the world. This infidleity stuff irks me.
Oh dear, Todd, I fear that you and Superman Rob could never be friends in real life. You just mentioned BS & T and Donovan in the same sentence as "good music" as though they could be possibly be good music.
Rob, who is the same age as you, is PASSIONATE about his music. John Mayall, Fleetwood Mac (before the girls), Little Feat (man, I love Little Feat too), Robert Johnson, the Stones, the Who, Spencer Davis, Gary Moore - shall I continue.
Although I will give this M one last run, I am not optimistic. To be clear, I am abundantly pessimistic. WW has backpeddled on her affair. We're "just friends". It sickens me becaue I know OM is behind her latest claim. I overheard the conversation.
Todd...are you considering R without NC with OM? ...or are you planning to make it a pre-requisite?
LOL, Luna, I know, especially in the 70s. Most of them manage to at least perform. Joe Cocker just stumbled around the stage and mumbled (he mumbled at the best of times but this was horrible). It was embarrassing and pathetic.
I am going to sign out, now...and not because of lack of interest...but I would like to get up tomorrow morning..... and since I am no Superman.... I need my beauty sleep!
Oh dear, Todd, I fear that you and Superman Rob could never be friends in real life. You just mentioned BS & T and Donovan in the same sentence as "good music" as though they could be possibly be good music.
Rob, who is the same age as you, is PASSIONATE about his music. John Mayall, Fleetwood Mac (before the girls), Little Feat (man, I love Little Feat too), Robert Johnson, the Stones, the Who, Spencer Davis, Gary Moore - shall I continue.
I like all the groups you mentioned so what is the problem.
He had a travel to another dimension when I took him to the old part of Mexico's downtown. While I complained about the infinite number of street vendors whe kept laughing in amusemnet.
Todd I'm affraid tomorrow he'll be your partner in suferings. He put spoons of Pico de Gallo over a Tampiqueña beef.
He's sleeping, I hope, in a hotel near by.
I didn't dye the lashes, lol.
Lunamare, nice monologue. I've never been married. I offer my unsolicited advice to Pio just to practice my nagging abilities.
Good to see you'll as always. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Oh, heavens no. NC with Other Men will be a first condition. And then it goes from there.
Geesh, Todd....even for the sake of DS3...couldn't see you lowering your standards THAT MUCH!...next on the agenda I guess would be....the 'trust' issue...as a known fact around here is that WS's have been known to......'lie'!!!!! .... LOLRF.....
Hi Larousse...glad to hear you changed your mind about your lashes....or....were you pulling our leg all along???.... I can be sooooo naive!
Quote
Lunamare, nice monologue.
....well...just doing my part to keep thread on first page!
A coworker just got back in from vacation. He told me his brother who has been married for 30 years was told by his wife that she wants a divorce. I said "let me guess - affair". He said yes. I asked is she had lost weight, started exercising, etc. He said she had lost 20 lbs, was wearing miniskirts. Said it was a guy her age from her hometown. I asked if she subscribed to classmates.com.
Anyway, I told him to tell his brother about this site. Supposedly the brother does not know about the A. Only the children know about the A.
The morning has started well. Two sons are up playing the computer game, oldest is still asleep, it's not raining but not hot & humid either.
Things will not stay calm though when OS gets up. He ran over a big rock while mowing the lawn yesterday & the blade is so bent it hits the ground. He must attempt to fix this & there will be drama galore. He thinks this gets him off the hook for cutting the grass. Wrong.
He's up. I'll let him eat first before springing the news of unpleasant work ahead. I told him yesterday he'll have to fix the blade but how could I expect him to "remember" when it was so long ago.
Wouldn't it be informative to know real numbers of infidelity in marriage. Heartbreaking but informative.
Pio - I don't know about all your earlier experiences with infidelity but you certainly sound like you're enjoying this time with your girls.
I found immediate relief when ex moved out. The tension was horrible. I was able to step off the egg shells & not try to taylor things to ex's comfort level. We are all freer to be & it's been great for all of us.
Larousse - yeah! a living BF. A great place to start. He's not an exBF & that sounds like a story. Did he buy you a ring & trinket from a machine? Good to hear you opted to say your vision VS have sexy lashes.
You couldn't give me a quick rundown of your status...or....direct me to your 'thread' if you have one.... but let me guess....I can read 'minds' a little bit.... it involved an A!
....or, like Todd, I will start to 'google' some lyrics of my favourite Italian singers....
Anybody heard of a song called 'IL CUORE MATTO'.....from 'Little Tony'.... big hit in Italy a few decades ago...
CUORE MATTO
Un cuore matto che ti segue ancora e giorno e notte pensa solo a te, e non riesco a fargli mai a capire che tu vuoi bene a un altro e non a me. Un cuore matto, matto da legare, che crede ancora che tu pensi a me, non è convinto che sei andata via, che m'hai lasciato e non ritornerai... Digli la verità e forse capirà; perché la verità tu non l'hai detta mai... Un cuore matto che ti vuole bene e ti perdona tutto quel che fai, ma prima o poi tu sai che guarirà, lo perderai, così lo perderai... Un cuore matto, matto da legare...
Let me know if anyone is really interested in knowing a quick summary of what's all about...
HINT HINT HINT...... it does apply to a 'common' experience to all of us here at MB!
Yes I am enjoying my time alone with the DDs. I am a bit frustrated though trying to sort through the dozens of papers they insist on sending home every night. I'll be glad when that abates and all we get is homework. Fortunately G2 chenged their back-to-school night so I don't have a conflict now between the two DDs. I can go to both. Homework is done for the night. DD1 has PE tomorrow and what color dies DD1 have to wear? I forget. I think we will start picking out clothes at night instead of in the morning. They are out playing now but in a bit I'll have them call WW and then hit the showers.
I have no life of my own any more but, on the other hand, there is nothing else I would rather be doing besides looking after the DDs so I don't really need a life. I need to trim the palm tree this weekend. That is one job I just hate. There is nothing good about cutting back a palm tree.
....anybody ever heard of....MINA.....whose voice is comparable to Barbra S......
Here are the lyrics for one of her duets with Alberto Lupo.... of PAROLE PAROLE (she sings 'canto'....he speaks 'parlato')
If you have never heard her sing....check her out.... even if you don't understand what she sings.... her voice is 'heavenly'!
PAROLE PAROLE
Parlato: Cara, cosa mi succede stasera, ti guardo ed è come la prima volta Canto : Che cosa sei, che cosa sei, che cosa sei Parlato: Non vorrei parlare Canto: Cosa sei Parlato: Ma tu sei la frase d’amore cominciata e mai finita Canto: Non cambi mai, non cambi mai, non cambi mai Parlato: Tu sei il mio ieri, il mio oggi Canto: Proprio mai Parlato: È il mio sempre, inquietudine Canto: Adesso ormai ci puoi provare/ chiamami tormento dai, già che ci sei Parlato: Tu sei come il vento che porta i violini e le rose Canto: Caramelle non ne voglio più Parlato: Certe volte non ti capisco Canto: Le rose e violini/ questa sera raccontali a un’altra, violini e rose li posso sentire/ quando la cosa mi va se mi va, quando è il momento/ e dopo si vedrà Parlato: Una parola ancora Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ascoltami Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ti prego Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Io ti giuro Canto: Parole, parole, parole, parole parole soltanto parole, parole tra noi Parlato: Ecco il mio destino, parlarti, parlarti come la prima volta Canto: Che cosa sei, che cosa sei, che cosa sei, Parlato: No, non dire nulla, c’è la notte che parla Canto: Cosa sei Parlato: La romantica notte Canto: Non cambi mai, non cambi mai, non cambi mai Parlato: Tu sei il mio sogno proibito Canto: Proprio mai Parlato: È vero, speranza Canto: Nessuno più ti può fermare/ chiamami passione dai, hai visto mai Parlato: Si spegne nei tuoi occhi la luna e si accendono i grilli Canto: Caramelle non ne voglio più Parlato: Se tu non ci fossi bisognerebbe inventarti Canto: La luna ed i grilli/ normalmente mi tengono sveglia/ mentre io voglio dormire e sognare/ l’uomo che a volte c’è in te quando c’è/ che parla meno/ ma può piacere a me Parlato: Una parola ancora Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ascoltami Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ti prego Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Io ti giuro Canto: Parole, parole, parole, parole parole soltanto parole, parole tra noi Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole, parole parole soltanto parole, parole tra noi
DD1 has PE tomorrow and what color dies DD1 have to wear? I forget. I think we will start picking out clothes at night instead of in the morning.
...sounds like a good plan....
Quote
I need to trim the palm tree this weekend. That is one job I just hate. There is nothing good about cutting back a palm tree.
....well....you can always use this thread to procrastinate doing the job for a bit....
....what do you thing I am doing here? ....
..I am with you....I ENJOY looking after my boys.... couldn't think of doing anything more worthwhile..... I just have a bit 'too much' time on my hands when they are not around!
A coworker just got back in from vacation. He told me his brother who has been married for 30 years was told by his wife that she wants a divorce. I said "let me guess - affair". He said yes. I asked is she had lost weight, started exercising, etc. He said she had lost 20 lbs, was wearing miniskirts.
Amazing how common infidelity seems to have become. In the US, one-half of first marriages fail. What is not revealed is why most marriages fail. From Frank Pittman: "However utopian the theories, the reality is that infidelity, whether it is furtive or blatant, will blow he!! out of a marriage. In 30 odd years of practice, I have encountered only a handful of established first marriages that ended in divorce without someone being unfaithful, often with the infidelity kept secret throughout the divorce process and even for years afterwards. Infidelity is the sine qua non of divorce."
Pio? ....do your palm trees produce....coconuts! ...or do I have the wrong tree! ....is there a coconut tree! .... that would mean...that on a palm tree....one finds PALMS.... like...those used by servants to 'cool' off Cleopatra...
....Sorry....I am up here in Canada.....a long way from 'tropical climate'.....so....excuuuuuse my ignorance....
....and what exactly do you hate about the job?..... hard to climb on top of the tree? .... or afraid to look like a m*********?
.....I know, I know...need to get myself a 'life'.....
Pio....how old is DD1 and DD2?
I wonder how NAMS is doing with OS and getting him to fix mower! ....
I'm okay. The pico de gallo had its way with me and moved on. I know that stuff is hot but Friday night it was ridiculously hot.
Yes, my reply was obscure, wasn't it?
It applies to this:
Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ascoltami Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ti prego Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Io ti giuro Canto: Parole, parole, parole, parole parole soltanto parole, parole tra noi Parlato: Ecco il mio destino, parlarti, parlarti come la prima volta Canto: Che cosa sei, che cosa sei, che cosa sei, Parlato: No, non dire nulla, c’è la notte che parla Canto: Cosa sei Parlato: La romantica notte Canto: Non cambi mai, non cambi mai, non cambi mai Parlato: Tu sei il mio sogno proibito Canto: Proprio mai Parlato: È vero, speranza Canto: Nessuno più ti può fermare/ chiamami passione dai, hai visto mai Parlato: Si spegne nei tuoi occhi la luna e si accendono i grilli Canto: Caramelle non ne voglio più Parlato: Se tu non ci fossi bisognerebbe inventarti Canto: La luna ed i grilli/ normalmente mi tengono sveglia/ mentre io voglio dormire e sognare/ l’uomo che a volte c’è in te quando c’è/ che parla meno/ ma può piacere a me Parlato: Una parola ancora Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ascoltami Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Ti prego Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Io ti giuro Canto: Parole, parole, parole, parole parole soltanto parole, parole tra noi Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole Parlato: Che cosa sei Canto: Parole, parole, parole, parole parole soltanto parole, parole tra noi
See all the paroles? They are obviously talking about getting out of jail early. Hmm... something I didn't consider before: I wonder if they are playing Monopoly?
Well this is strange. I called WW at SIL's house via Skype and set DDs in front of the computer while I went to make them dinner. I could hear them talking and think they were talking to WW but after about a minute DD1 told me that mommy had told her to hang up the phone because she couldn't hear very well and to not call back. I didn't believe DD1 and started to dial again but she insisted that mommy had said not to call back. Weird. Anyway, they aren't upset in the least so we won't call back.
after about a minute DD1 told me that mommy had told her to hang up the phone because she couldn't hear very well and to not call back. I didn't believe DD1 and started to dial again but she insisted that mommy had said not to call back. Weird.
July '03 after 20 year marriage H says he wants to D.
Claims the ususal, not happy for years, cares for me not in love with me, says there is no one else. He's unwilling to go to counceling, won't consider reconciliation.
I find this site start plan A. Oct. '03 he decides to "give it a year, if he falls back in love with me he'll stay". I'm grateful for the chance.
He doesn't agree with much of MB, won't fill out EN, won't read the materials so I do what I can. We spend some time together but he still spends two nights a week out. One bowling, the other with a friend. I sometimes call to check but there's really no way to know for sure where he is as this friend is his childhood friend who will do anything for h. They bowled together too.
I'm in IC, have gone on AD & H agrees to counceling to "find out what went wrong". Councelor was a bad fit, H didn't participate in a meaningful way. Denies to councelor there is someone else. We see councelor for a few months with virtually no success. He refuses to seek another councelor.
I strongly suspect someone else. H's independent behavior, many phone calls with hang ups other stuff too. Still denies. I do some checking but get nothing solid. H was ex Special Forces knows how to hide his tracks lives by the credo once you deny something you continue to deny, deny, deny.
Almost one year to the day H says he's moving ahead with D.
I try to get phone records, try to get credit card records to prove affair. All done through attorney. He refusses to provide this & as a consequence ends up assuming lots of debt he claims was part mine. Two months after he moves out he buys a car from a co-worker. A couple of months after that he has introduced her to out boys as his gf. She tells the boys a story about their dad that happened years ago at work indicating they've known each other for a long time though he denied this too.
Pio, being the cynic I am do you think WW is strategizing with her sister or perhaps involved in another A? Her sister does not sound like a good person for WW to be around as she has an OM.
Todd - I'm glad to hear you're feeling better. Two of my boys tend to do just what you did the other night, minus the beer. They love the taste of pico de gallo so they keep piling it on then the next day...well, you know that part.
Have you guys heard of Alejandro Sanz or Jarbe de Palo? Two of my favorites even if I don't know what they're saying.
Just as a reward for braking the lawn mower I've decided to take the boys out for lunch. It's a beautiful day & one of our favorite restaurants has seating on a deck which overlooks the Thames (not tems) River.
Now, to get their smelly bodies in the shower...never knew boys could smell quite so bad & still sit close to each other & not notice.
The lawnmower? Later...it's been discussed & is on the agenda. I need sustenance before the drama.
Got a Place Down Kentucky Right Down Near Ohio Where You Can Watch Them Planes At Night People Line Up Just to Watch Them Fly I Said Watchin Them Planes I Wish I Was On One I'm Sittin' Here Thinkin' 'bout a Brown Haired Girl If I Could Only Get Her Tonight
Oh Atlanta, Oh Atlanta! I Said Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Atlanta, Got to Get Back to You
You Can Drop Me Off On Peachtree I Got to Feel That Georgia Sun The Women There in Atlanta They Make Us Both Feel Glad You Come I Said Watchin' Them Planes I Wish I Was On One I'm Sittin' Here Thinking 'bout a Crazy Girl If I Could Only Get Her Tonight
Oh Atlanta, Oh Atlanta! I Said Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Atlanta, Got to Get Back to You
You Take a Day O' Nights It's Just You and Me Where the Diesel Plays All Night You Got the Boogie Man Goin' 'round For ****** And When They Get to Movin' They Never Stop You Just Keep On Playin' That Down Home Beat You Just Keep On Layin' Down High
I Wish I Was On One Sittin' Here Thinkin' Crazy Scene If I Could Only, Oh If I Could...
Oh Atlanta, Oh Atlanta! I Said Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Atlanta, Got to Get Back to You
Thanks but actually my feat are big. Have trouble finding shoes to fit. 15 in American sizes; don't know how they translates to the rest of the world.
Anyway, great song, obviously. Lowell George and LF spent many of their formative days in Atlanta. As I am sure you know, Lowell George died at an early age I guess about 15 years ago. He and Jackson Browne were best friends. Jackson wrote and recorded a song entitled "Of Missing Persons" as a tribute to Lowell. The song was actually written to Lowell's young daughter (I believe an infant at the time of his death). Lyrics follow.
Your father was a rounder He played that rock and roll A leaper and a bounder Down to his gypsy soul The music was his angel And sorrow was his star And those of us who follow Might hope to reach as far
They’re walking slow in houston Speechless in D.C. There’s no way I could tell you What he meant to me
Your mother’s a survivor She’ll do what must be done Her children will revive her And help her see the sun She almost knew that unison But the singing stopped too soon Now she shares the silence With a man up in the moon
To speak of missing persons Tonight there’s only one And we all carry with us what the man’s begun
And you can sing this song On july the fourth In the sunny south and the frozen north It’s a day of loss, it’s your day of birth Does it take a death to learn what a life is worth?
Your brothers are all older And they’ll take it in their stride The world’s a little colder But manhood’s on their side Now you’re the little girl-child And you look so much like him And he’s right there inside you Each time you want to sing
Sing of missing persons Tonight there’s only one But he’s where you can find him when it’s said and done
And we will sing this song On july the fourth From the sunny south and the frozen north This will always be your day of birth May you always see what your life is worth
The first pic on the left is DS3 and his new bride, married last month. Next pic are all three sons in the order, left to right, DS3, DS2 and DS1. If you blend DS2 and DS3 together, you get me. Add a few years of seasoning obviously, lol.
Thanks Jen. Yes I am extremely proud of them. They have grown into confident young men and while they share many common attributes, they are also individuals. The youngest is a finanical advisor, middle is a scientist (and the smartest in the family) and oldest is a commercial photographer.
Great looking boys Todd! If you're a blend of the two olsest I'm sure you're a hotti! A lovely house too.
Little Feat was always one of my favorites & I have a couple of their songs on my MP3. IMO they just don't have it without LG.
Luna - my boys are 15, 12 & 11. Angels all...when they're sleeping.
OS is working on lawnmower & has had only one hissy fit so far. There are sure to be more.
Lunch was good, the boys are good company for lunch despite some elbows on the table & YS getting fettucine alfrado on his face, his clothes & in his hair. His brothers mentioned his eating habits.
Thanks Jen. German born artist, now living in Laguna Beach, California. Manfred Kuhnert is known for his bold colors and aggressive brush strokes. I am happy to report that his oils have increased 450% since we bought that one. BTW, if we do D, I get that painting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Don't you know Todd that "seasoning" equals character?
Did you buy the painting because you like it or because of its potential as an investemnt? If you consider this a rude question Todd feel free to not answer.
Do you have any thoughts on my employment quandry?
What gets me excited is the idea of teaching art. Elementary ed, well, I like the younger kids & think I could be a decent teacher but I don't have the same level of excitment as I do when I think about teaching art.
The unfortunate thing about that is the school is so far & there are fewer job openings for art teachers. I could cross qualify. Loads of work.
The reasons I'm leaning toward education is my background & with summers off I can be with my boys & be able to do my pottery. They've had enough dumped on them & I'd like to keep their lives as much the same as I can. Plus, I d like to be with them when they're out of school as much as possible. Helps avoid after school boredom & getting into trouble.
Just when I think I've made up my mind to go for teaching art I start to feel it's not practical enough & my head starts to spin.
Handsome boys, Todd. What type of scientist is your son? It's nice they do a range of different things too.
Did anyone else watch the tv show, "Northern Exposure" 10-15 years ago? There was a character named Maggie who was afraid to get a boyfriend, because every boyfriend she had died a bizarre, accidental death. Makes me think of larousse... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yes Kiwi they mentioned the eating habits in that brutal sort of boy way.
YS is quite sensitive. I hurt his feelings today & feel terrible about it.
He was watching Sponge Bob. SB is playing the quitar & singing & YS says "YA know, SB would make a good musician." Well, I just cracked up at the absurdity of that when YS says "I didn't mean in real life." Again, I cracked up. Poor, sweet thing got a little teary because I laughed at him. I apologized but still...his sweet little feelings...
We do not have the proper tools to fix the lawnmower. OS called ex who will provide the tools Tues. when he picks them up for his "visitaion" time.
ex seems perfectly happy to visit with his sons VS living with them full time. Though I offered for him to see them when ever he would like. I made it clear he's welcome to stop in to see them whenever but as he said how would he get all his stuff done.
Excuse my bitterness please. He does provide as he was ordered to & does see the boys two days a week & every other weekend. I have a hard time understanding how part time dad works out fine.
Don't you know Todd that "seasoning" equals character?
Okay then, I have a lot of character.
"Did you buy the painting because you like it or because of its potential as an investemnt? If you consider this a rude question Todd feel free to not answer."
As for offending me, it takes a lot. You have got to do waaaay better than that. I waked into an art gallery in the next town. The painting was on a display easel. I bought it on the spot and honestly, knew nothing about the artist. The gallery owner did and filled me in and I researched further from there. So I bought it because I fell in love with the painting. I have since taked to Mr. Kuhnert on the phone. He is in his sixties and quite a chap. One of these days, when I am able, I am going to do a driving tour of California. I will definitely go and meet him. And hopefully buy him a drink, lol.
Quote
Do you have any thoughts on my employment quandry?
I apologize. WW called me today and wanted to get together and "talk". Allow me to interpret. Talk means she talks. It doesn't mean we discuss things. Anyway, as she drove here to pick me up, Pio's words of "use your intellect" rang in my ears. Also, my oldest son's admonition to think like a chess player. So I did. I decided to give WW wide berth, in fact, infinite berth and get things off her chest.
Predictably, she started in on my exposing her. It was unfair and it has caused her great shame. I listened without uttering a word. Also I moved and stranded her to face the tornado alone. She was also "kidding" about OM3. In her mind, OM2. She has always loved me and would never have cheated if I had not got sick. She was lonely and scared. OM1 said and did the right things. He complimented her. She reminded me if you don't take care of your crops, someone else will.
A funny thing happened during her monologue. I realized that I am no longer in love with her. Was it the sting of her cheating and my reaction to it? Or was it that I had built a wall around myself, i.e., I am a Rock? I quickly decided that it doesn't really matter. Sitting across from her, I genuinely felt sorry for her. She had always leaned on me for I was always the strong one. When I was ill, in her mind, I was weak and she turned to a man she saw as strong. I had heard it all before.
She finally wound down and asked me what I thought. I told that there are levels of betrayal and while I understand that my illness must have been frightening to her, her betrayal under those condiions represented the lowest form of betrayal imaginable. I reminded her that OM1 is a philanderere, a serial predator. She agreed but said that he really did love her. I asked her if she thought all his OW felt the same way. She said no. I dropped that part of the discussion.
I asked her what she wanted to do. She said she wanted to R. So, I gave her the conditions upon which, and only upon which, a R was possible. She balked at the first one. She claimed that she is no longer in contact with OM1. I told her be that as it may, I still want her to send the letter. She refused. Next, I told her that we both needed to get in IC and MC. Again, she refused. She reminded me that all therapists are crazy and all they want is your money. So, I gave her the next condition: transparency. Again, she refused. She told me she is not going to have me checking up on her. I asked her how she planned to restore my trust in her. She said I needed to get over it. I thought of an additonal condition I forgot to post earlier: no friends who are not friends of the marriage. She retorted: IOW, you don't want me to be friends with BF or BF#2. I said that is correct. Again, she refused. I told her those conditions are the necessary minimum for me to even agree to attempt R again. She was stunned.
I don't know why she wants to R or says she wants to R. Perhaps because of the kides, especially DS3. She claims she still loves me. Oh, she went one step further: she is still in love with me. I never said much, stayed in listening mode.
While we were driving, every time she saw a vehicle of the type and color that OM1 drives, she would almost break her neck trying to see if it was he. I soon tired of that. She brought me back "home" and I told her the conditions to R are cast in stone and that she needed to go away and think about how badly she wants to R.
She asked me if I still loved her. I told her that I loved her but I was no longer in love with her. I told her that I didn't know if I could ever regain that "in love" feeling again, that she had hurt me deeply with the most basic betrayal one spouse can do to another. She cried. I was unmoved. I encouraged her to go away and think about the conditions and how much she truly wanted to R. She left.
Now, nams, sorry didn't mean to launch into such a long story but my time with WW occupied most of my afternoon. I will reread your post and offer some feedback as soon as I eat, okay? Sorry for the delay.
DS2 is a geologist, specifically a mineralogist. He had known that was wanted he wanted to do since the fourth grade. At this point with only an undergrad degree, he quickly learned that employment is limited. He works for an environmental engineering and consulting firm doing field tests and studies. Since he loves the outdoors, he is very happy. He plans to enroll in Georgia Tech and get a masters in engineering. I am not clear on which discipline yet.
He is also a very serious rock hound and has an impressive rock and mineral collection.
... said the father....with a big smile on his face, I am sure....as you should be, Todd!
Quote
The art work over the fireplace is GORGEOUS.
I am with Kiwi....it caught my eye, too.
Quote
Luna - my boys are 15, 12 & 11.
Thanks, Nams.....BOY! ...three boys....guess they must be a handleful sometimes!
Quote
What gets me excited is the idea of teaching art.....think I could be a decent teacher but I don't have the same level of excitment as I do when I think about teaching art.
Even though you're asking Todd....and that I may not be totally up to date with your dilemna.....to me, Nams, this says it all! ...and you will do yourself...and those 'younger kids' a favour at the same time...
Quote
Just when I think I've made up my mind to go for teaching art I start to feel it's not practical enough & my head starts to spin.
....well...go lie down for a few minutes...it will stop spinning sooner or later....
....maybe it's just a bit out of your 'comfort zone'....so what?? ...you'll get over it.... be an inspiration to your boys...go for your dreams!
I don't know ToddAC. Something doesn't add up. I looked at those photos and I don't see a GWTW doll anywhere. Could you have been exaggerating?
Lol. No, not exaggerating. Wish I was. I would hate to think how much money "I" put into GWTW dolls over the years. And that doesn't even count other dolls like those made by Fayzah Spanos. And all the other Madame Alexander dolls. She has every Puerto Rican doll ever made by MadameA. The list goes on and on. I don't have any pics but will see if WW does. It is quite a sight to see.
I was thinking the same thing as Pio about the dolls, but was too polite to ask..
Todd, your W does sound like she's being more honest than before -- at least she's admitting to the affair now and admitting why she did it, as low as it was. I think you should get a medal for talking to her at all. Goes to show how much you love your boys.
I understand why people love geology, though I've never been into it that much myself. But, I saw a job the other day making me wish that I were a geologist. It's at Cambridge going over all of Darwin's geology notes and original specimens from the Voyage of the Beagle.
Your son is right that there's not much employment opportunity in science without advanced degrees. I'm trained as a biologist, though I've been out of it for several years now. I've been a stay-at-home-mom for the last 7 years. I hope your son finds of way of continuing to work in the area.
No problem Todd, take your time. I appreciate your take on this & your willingness to help me.
I'm so sorry you're in the throes of the infidelity mess.
I too had a moment when I looked at then H & thought, I just don't love you. I found I could only take so much lying, selfishness & all the rest. Not that it was up to me whether we would stay married or not but it does make things clearer when you don't feel the pull of love.
My IC told me then h was doing me a favor by wanting to D. He was right.
How nice you got in touch with the artist of your beautiful painting.
I have my work in a cooperative gallery which means all the member artist work the gallery. This means we get to talk to people about our work. It's so rewarding to have people admire my work & want it in there home. My work is not on the scale of your artist. Mostly I make funtional stuff, a couple of naked ladies thrown in now & then.
luna, three boys can be a handfull but I wouldn't have it any other way.
It's so rewarding to have people admire my work & want it in there home
Nams....whatever you choose to do.....you will have to work this in....somehow!
Quote
luna, three boys can be a handfull but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I never thought I would say this...but I am jealous....I only have TWO beautiful boys ...too late to change that now...and don't get me started talking about them...suffice to say....I ADORE MY TWO BOYS! ...and I feel privileged to see them blossom as the years go by....and shower them with hugs and kisses....as much as they can tolerate it!
....like Todd...would probably do just about anything for them!
I will reread your post and offer some feedback as soon as I eat, okay?
Todd (or Nams)...since I would very much like to 'catch up' on Nams' dilenma....would you be able to tell me on what page the post detailing it is? ...or NOT!
Nams, since learning that you are a mom with boys to raise.... I am feeling the 'connection'.....LOL!
Well two girls are quite a handful too. Last night's crisis was over whether to eat reheated macaroni and cheese or throw it out and start with new. I got my way finally but only under protest. We finally did call WW but they didn't talk very long. No crying or upset this time. Every day gets a little easier. We did remember to pick out clothes last night. Today is "green" day in kinder but I just discovered the DD2 does not have one single thing that is green. I think I will keep her home on St. Patrick's day. She bruises easily.
Pio, imagining of you with your two little girls is quite sweet. One of the most tender things I've seen recently was a man putting his daughter's hair into pig tails. These big hands holding onto the skinny bits of hair while he was holding onto the bands in his mouth. The little girl just stood & waited. It's something we see mothers do all the time but for some reason it really touched my heart to see the dad in this role.
I also hate all those forms the school sends home. I have two packets waiting for me as I write this. Maybe tomorrow.
What's with the colors on particular days?
One thing I loved about a school my boys went to in Spain was uniforms. I wish we had them here. Much easier.
My last two boys a a year minus 2 days apart, Irish twins. When I had three boys 4 & under, two in diapers & a husband who traveled a lot, that's when I had my hands full.
Lets see luna 164 comes to mind. I'll check & post it. Did you say you were in Canada? We took a trip there one summer & I loved it. Beautiful country & the people were so nice plus you have ketchup flavor chips!
Geesh, Pio...you are soooooo predictable..... I was 'rubbing it in'......waiting for the proud father of his two little girls to 'show up'...... and you didn't disappoint!
Hummm...Pio....what's the 'idea' behind the colour-coding of the kids' clothes for school?
what's the 'idea' behind the colour-coding of the kids' clothes for school?
I have no frigging clue. All I know is I am looking at DD2's school calendar and it demands that she wear a particular color on a particular day. Fortunately it seems only to last for about two weeks. Now my task is phonic show-and-tell. She missed "M" day but she did have her backpack which, in Spanish, is "mochila" so I got points for technical merit.
If I don't shape up and get all this right, I am afraid my DD2 will be the pariah of her class.
BTW, I NEVER disappoint - except for WW. Apparently I disappointed her daily. Oh well....
...and I bet those two little girls got Dad Pio 'wrapped' around their little fingers!
..with a WS in fantasyland and less 'available'....it seems to me that the load of a BS seems to get a little heavier when being hit the hardest.....as the need to 'keep it together' becomes more important than ever....for the sake of the kids.....but you know what?....this is the part I mind the LEAST! .....for me, the boys are WORTH all the effort I can muster up!....at times, my boys is what has kept me going! ...what can I say.....LOVE those boys of mine....
Quote
I'll check & post it
Okey dokey!
Quote
Did you say you were in Canada?
Yes, I did...Quebec, to be exact! ....Not sure how many towns the 'Thames' runs through.....would you care to be more specific?
bet those two little girls got Dad Pio 'wrapped' around their little fingers
Wrapped? They have me doubled over worse than a Manilla folder (i.e. a Philippino contortionist).
I have worked up a spreadsheet on DD2's clothes and correlated it with the class's daily color requirements and calculated the probability of matching the color on any given day. Needless to say it is bleak. Considering the fact that 89.376% of DD2's clothes are pink, the odds are stacked against me. I hate to say this but, to quote WW's favorite phrase, "I'm going to the mall".
Fortunately I have the weekend before we hit "purple" day. I also note that there is a "chartreuse" day next Monday. I don't know what chartreuse is but it sounds suspiciously French. She may just have to stay home as a conscientious objector. What kind of values are they teaching our kids these days?!?!?!?
OK...Nams....am on page 159 and reading your posts....
Quote
If I do decide to teach I'd prefer to teach art. For this I'd have to go to a school about 1 hour 20 min
....would this be full-time studies? ....how many days a week, and for how long? ..and would this make you more employable long-term?
Quote
I have 5 years of a decent settlement (closer to 4 now) which will allow me time to get myself together. I still need to work but I can afford to work part time & go back to school for my master's if need be
....so...could you 'put off' making choices based solely on 'practicality & the internship possibility' for a few years and give yourself a chance to pursue your 'interests'?
...and are these 'internship possibilities' hard to come by?
...and....Nams?
Quote
Sometimes a place in your heart just does not exist for the person who betrayed you. Certainly there are people who get past it & go on to live in healthy happy marriages. I don't think it's a shortcoming that some simply don't have a place in their heart for the betrayer.
For me there would have always been a seed of doubt, an inability to fully trust & give myself again. No matter how hard I would have worked at the machanics of healing the marriage (given the opportunity) those factors would have still been there.
...are you trying to justify your decision to be unwilling to want to R marriage?
...as far as I am concerned..... when a WS chooses to abuse the gift of 'trust' that has been given to them.....the BS has then the right to be unwilling to offer it again to someone who has proven to be 'untrustworthy' with it....
.....and so, I agree with you, it is not a 'shortcoming'... it's a choice....a betrayal in your life was a 'dealbreaker'...you needed to respect that 'boundary'.....and you did!
I have worked up a spreadsheet on DD2's clothes and correlated it with the class's daily color requirements and calculated the probability of matching the color on any given day. Needless to say it is bleak. Considering the fact that 89.376% of DD2's clothes are pink, the odds are stacked against me. I hate to say this but, to quote WW's favorite phrase, "I'm going to the mall".
...a spreadsheet?...to the third decimal? ...oh GOD! ...this is what I would call...high tech parenting!
....looks to me the answer is quite simple.....the school gets a 'cut' from the profits of sales....
hey, I didn't write the software - I just use it. It dsplays to the 16th decimal place and I just rounded. I think that is something. Personally I consider this a DJ on your part and I am highly offended. I need a minute.
Okay, got over it. Not offended any more.
I dodged a bullet. I messed up and today is "blue" day. We have that. I found some green fertilizer in the garage and used it to make a big stain on one of DD2's white shirts. That will get us by tomorrow's "green" day. I don't have any purple liquids though. One of the days next week is "black" day. What on earth are they thinking? With an outside air temperature of 138F and not a cloud for longtitudes, what parent buys their daughter black clothes? (besides an Arab)
If I remember my chemistry right, if I buy Exlax and crush it up and put it in a basic liquid solution (i.e. pH > 7.0), it should turn purple. I can get Exlax at the commissary and I think I have another white shirt. I need to remember to tell DD2 not to suck on the material though - she is prone to do that. Oh well, it won't be MY problem if she does. Let the school take care of that one.
I found some green fertilizer in the garage and used it to make a big stain on one of DD2's white shirts. That will get us by tomorrow's "green" day...... If I remember my chemistry right, if I buy Exlax and crush it up and put it in a basic liquid solution (i.e. pH > 7.0), it should turn purple. I can get Exlax at the commissary and I think I have another white shirt. I need to remember to tell DD2 not to suck on the material though - she is prone to do that.
.....xcuuuse me..... high tech....and INVENTIVE!
....that it might get DDs killed along the way...I guess... would be considered 'collateral' damage!
Pio...would you mind asking the school....what's the point? ...learning the colours, or what? ....and...maybe...coloured 'ribbons' might do the trick.... but then I guess...why make things simple when they can be made complicated!
...that reminds me, Pio...way back....asked how old your DDs were.....so...thought I would pass by you this question again....'cause....I never did get an answer.....(I know....the thread moves faster than the eye!)
They are 5 and 7 - or 7 and 5 depending on how you want to look at it.
Collateral damage? Well, if you want to get into root-cause analysis, then yes - collateral damage. I read the bottle. I couldn't see that it said anything about being "harmful to humans". So, based on what I have seen, it shouldn't do her any harm. Of course, the label was in Arabic. You have a point. I'll get a translation.
I tend to blame most things about our current situation on the fact that WW had an affair. As each day goes by, I think more and more I don't want her back. Of course, this is hugely unfair to the DDs. Actually I dread the day she comes back.
I tend to blame most things about our current situation on the fact that WW had an affair. As each day goes by, I think more and more I don't want her back. Of course, this is hugely unfair to the DDs. Actually I dread the day she comes back.
I hear you, Pio....now that G. is not around is the time to let your feelings 'out'.....
...a WS is the one who choses to have A...but the BS, children, friends and family.....are all stuck with the consequences...... only choice left is: HOW to deal with the consequences..... some consolation prize!
now that G. is not around is the time to let your feelings 'out'.....
Hmmm...are you sure? Or do I just forget all about them and her? I seriously do not know the answer to that.
BTW, I have another problem. A week ago, DD1 was brushing her hair and complaining that she has a "higher" forhead than DD2 and said that she hated her head. I told her she had a beautiful head but to no avail. So I got rogaine and started applying it to her forehead twice a day. I don't see any change in her but now I have hair all over my fingertips. I have to shave them now!
If I do have to let out my feelings now, I'm afraid I don't have enough free time to do that. DDs don't give me time to eat - much less think.
Well I made a big mess of things today. I don't know why I had convinced myself yesterday that today was green day but, well, I did. This AM I discovered it was blue day but DDs had not gotten up when I left so DD2 still thought it was green day. DD1 and the maid got into a fight because the maid told her it was blue day but I had said it was green day. The maid called me at the time they should have been walking out the door for school and DD1 and DD2 were yelling at each other and the maid told me that DD1 was insistent that it was green day and could not be reasoned with. (DD1 was standing up for DD2 who is the one who has to wear the colors) I got on the phone to DD1 and I told her it was my mistake and that today was blue day and tomorrow was green day. She told me she hated her sister because all she ever does is cry (true BTW - she cries at anything) and that she didn't want a sister any more. She wanted me to go home so she could hug me and she was mad that I didn't wake her up this AM (I can't win here - she gets mad when I wake her up). Anyway I finally got her calmed down a bit and then I got on the phone to DD2 and said that it was, in fact, blue day and she was okay with that. Now, in order to calm DD1 down I had to distract her from the whole color issue and I asked her about her friend that she was go to with this PM. Well now the friend may be coming to our house for a sleepover. Oh joy. All because I misread the pinche calendar. I hate kindergarten. Absolutely hate it.
Anyway I saw them at lunch and they are fine. Why is it that something so seemingly inocuous can cause so much trouble.
Pio - I can relate to this. One of my twins is a nightmare in the morning. Would your daughter respond to an 'award system'? Stickers for getting up on time, getting dressed without fuss, eating breakfast etc etc. So many stickers = a reward. This is such a tricky situation for your maid as well. It is very difficult for these ladies to earn respect from children. They are not quite sure of their boundaries in terms of discipline. That's something you really need to discuss with her. Too soft and the kids stamp all over them, too hard and the kids resent them.
Can I suggest that your girls have their clothes laid out the night before. Perhaps a weekly planner in their bedrooms would help them to better organise themselves. I know they are only little and will have tantrums regardless, but anything that helps day to day life run a little more smoothly will be a blessing. Take care, TT
The award system is a brilliant idea. Thanks. I'll start immediately. I have seen this before but never used it. My daughters are just not "morning people".
Maid situation is much harder. I am not sure what is real. I am not there to observe and I wish I could be. I have thought of a nannycam for a brief period so I can better understand the dynamics. I don't believe the mais is overstepping her bounds and I think she means well. We have minor communications issues. I could not do this without her so I can't push her too hard either. We all need to work through this transition and we will get there.
We are now laying out the clothes the night before. I had meant to do that but everything just gets chaotic at night sometimes. My evenings never go how I think they will.
Pio, I love the green fertilizer idea! That one is right up my alley.
You keep referring to your "mess ups". Frankly I don't see these little snafus as mess ups. Kid problems are so different that adult & work problems. They are twisty & turny & complicated by so many factors. One being communicating on a level kids can understand. You're human, unlike our resident superman Todd, & life just don't work like a well oiled machine much of the time.
It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with your girls. You love them, spend time with them, help them. That's the important stuff. Blue, green shirt, won't matter for long. Besides it sounds like you're getting this color thing right 99.897% of the time & that's pretty good.
By nature I am an unorganized person & keeping my boys on track in terms of what's due when & who needs what today is enourmously difficult for me. I often don't get things quite right. I beat myself up for that for a while but that didn't help me do a better job.
People give me tips & some are helpful but it's still a struggle. Unfortuately my boys are unorganized like me so we are often struggling together.
luna, you asked about school. Would it be full time? Yes, in as much as master programs are. By that I mean they are typically at night three, maybe four nights a week. It seems they try to taylor schedules to working people. Some courses will recommend you go to school only, depends on the concentration. This, no.
You made an interesting point about giving myself more time to make my choices so as not to be goverened by practicality alone. It's one I've been trying to consider more in my decision making process. I admit to feeling pressure to make a choice, mosty self induced. After all, the D did not seek up on me. I'd taken the classes necessary to finish my bachelor's from the time ex said he wanted to D the first time. I feel like I've had time but the decision doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
About the marriage stuff: In my concise post about my D I didn't give many details about the whats & whys of it all. Let me see if I can explain a bit about why I'm looking at the infidelity after the fact.
Infidelity did not plan a leading role in our D. By that I mean it was not a focus or the stated reason for out D. ex said he wanted to D. I went into a tailspin, focused on plan A, took what I could get from ex to work on marriage. He denied involvement with anyone & I was unable to find definitive proof. From the moment ex agreed to "give it a year" he was three quarters out the door in his head & in his heart.
I talked about infidelity, how we could get past it, how he must have NC, we must build us, but it was all greeted with a blank look of what does this have to do with me, I'm not involved with anyone. Denial coupled with no proof left me on pretty slippery ground.
Just now that things are settling in & my life & that of my boys is calming I'm taking a better look at the inner workings of the fake reconciliation & the path to D.
None of this talks about the roles both of us played in the weakening of our marriage & how it lead to D but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. If you're interested ask what ever you'd like.
Yes. Me making the unilateral decision to break up the family. I am still stuck between thinking what is best for them is a healthy divorce or a non-toxic marriage. How much am I willing to put up with for the sake of the DDs? I have put up with a lot for a year but I can't see this going on forever. WW thinks if she gives me SF every once in a while that I am good for another few days. The truth is that I hate SF with her because there is no passion in it.
I also may just be venting anger but the more time that goes by, I begin to doubt that. I am not really all that angry. I am beginning to be somewhat happy. I just don't know. I wish we could just stay separated for a long time and see how it all goes. I am afraid she is coming back too soon. Keep in mind I don't know when she is coming back but it will still be too soon. Yes the girls miss her but they are doing fine without her here. WW coming back is not going to make anything better.
I like being a single dad. This is the most fun I have had in years. Now I have to go crush up two boxes of Exlax and mix it with diluted lye soap.
I may have a brilliant plan for the color of the day issue. Instead of new clothes how about hair accessories or ribbons to pin on DD's clothes that match the color of the day?
Now for the breaking up of your marriage.
Was that really your choice? Didn't G start the ball rolling by being a WW? Hasn't she kept the ball rolling by being unwilling to understand the pain this has caused you & being unwilling to do what it takes to repair the M?
The fact that you may decide you can't be married to your WW due to the devistation caused by infidelity doesn't mean you've caused the break of your M.
I sucked up a lot when it came time to tell our boys we were Ding. Though it was ex's choice to D my IC suggested we present a united front saying WE decided to D due to xyz. It was the right choice at the time but it certainly wasn't the end. The boys have since pieced things together & through many talks know it was their father's choice. They even wonder about infidelity. I can only tell them I don't know for sure, that I have to wonder & suspect, but you'll have to ask you dad.
I will own my part in what was not a good marriage for either of us. I will not own any part of his choice to commit adultry. That is his alone & whether or not he admits it one day it was a HUGE part in the demise of our M. The same is true for you Pio.
I never thought I'd like being a single mom, but I do. I feel so much freer to be myself with my boys & they feel freer with me too. We often have more fun now than we did with ex because he can be a stiff.
But remember I am an engineer. We fix problems and, when we can't, we are a failure. I have a vague recollection of who had the affair. I remember who hung onto that affair and would not let go. But I also remember who is the one who owns up to responsibility. It is my responsibility to provide for my DDs and provide them a family. The problem is there is no good solution. So now we are dealing in mitigation. I know how to do that too, as an engineer. I just don't know what are the mitigating factors in this situation. I am perfectly willing to be a single parent. I will dare you to find a better one (with a little more practice). I just want gemela to stay away for a good long while. My DDs are young and they have no real concept of time. DD2 is fond of saying "once, a long time ago..." - that means "yesterday" in her language.
...like Star Trek.... we humans are travelling the 'uncharted territories' of feelings and emotions....
...OH!....that brings to mind a book I read that referred to the exciting journey of.......exploring and getting to know our inner 'emotional field/garden'.... from our beautiful flower beds to our buried mines....I really like that image....so I guess that would make us...garden keepers!
Actually....what I probably meant was.....this is a good time for you to 'vent' here....get your 'anger' out of your system...so that when and if G. gets back....you will do a better job with AO.....because in some of your last exchanges with G....thought you were having a bit of trouble keeping that son of a %%%% of a 'lovebuster'..... under control...
Pio...take the time now to figure out what's underneath it for you...I can't remember what Dr. Phil says exactly ....but more or less....that 'anger' is a secondary emotion....let me think.....according to him....underneath it are a couple of options: fear....pain....sadness....frustration.... something along those lines! ....anger is just a 'mask'....
and also....sure....look after the girls....Papa Pio.....but... please look after yourself....make time to see friends...get some 'adults' in the mix...what do you like...golfing? (personally....I have not yet figured out the 'thrill' of that sport...uhmmmm.... I think I may get heck from Todd....think he's a golfer!)...don't even know if it's an option for you....out there in the desert!..... otherwise..... I think you will have one MEAN TAKER on your hands to handle.... and you don't want IT to come out when and if G. gets back.....
Quote
If I do have to let out my feelings now, I'm afraid I don't have enough free time to do that. DDs don't give me time to eat - much less think.
....well....get your super duper spreadsheet to the nth decimal and figure it out.....a big guy like you is hard to miss behind a 5 and 7 year old!
Quote
Well I made a big mess of things today.....Anyway I saw them at lunch and they are fine....We all need to work through this transition and we will get there.
Pio..it looks to me that you are doing just fine..... and TT has some ideas for you to try.....and there will be others! ....but keep up the good work!
As Nams says:
Quote
you're getting this color thing right 99.897% of the time & that's pretty good.
..and like Nams, am wondering
Quote
What's unfair? That you don't want your WW back? Or are you taking the responsibility for breaking up the family?
I think it's good that you're being introspective and looking at what effects your childhood has had on you and how you've parented in the past. You are seeing what you did wrong and why. And most importantly, you are fixing it and trying to do what's best for your kids and making them come first.
The one thing that I think you need to do to move forward is to be more realistic about Gemela and what she's truly capable of. You want and need for her to feel remorse and to show you that she wants to be back in the marraige. You were able to take a good look at yourself and make some changes. Can you do the same with Gemela and try to see what drives her and if it's even a reasonable expectation for her to be do what you feel you need from her?
The reason I say all this is because of a post you made a few days ago where you talked about how abusive Gemela had been to the girls -- that you had to step in and threaten to do to her what she did to the kids to make her stop -- things like hitting the girls with shoes. That is just so, so messed up. You did what you had to do to get G under control and to protect your kids. But the fact that she is treating her kids that way and that the only way she'd stop is if she got treated the same way... well... that really tells you something about her. If that's how she interacts with young children, how could she possibly have the ability to interact with you on a sensitive and caring level? It's like if you brought a second grader into work and expected them to do the job and then got upset when they couldn't. Has she shown that she's even aware of how to interact with other people?
She needs some serious help and I really wonder if she can be helped if she doesn't have the realization that what she has done to you and the children is wrong. My biggest concern about you divorcing her is that she will have the kids alone without you around to keep her under control. Do you really want her having the kids on her own for weeks or months at a time? But the flip side of that is that you have to figure out how to help her be a better mother if she's home and if you have to determine if you can live with someone like her with the new understanding you have of yourself and the new relationship that you're building with your girls.
I just don't see any easy answers for this situation. Would Gemela be open to some intensive counseling and parenting classes?
One condition I would make for her coming home is that she gets some professional help. If there isn't anyone there, maybe she could do phone counseling with someone in the States.
I really, really feel for you. You should feel really good about yourself that you're taking good care of your girls and protecting them from more chaos.
what do you like...golfing? (personally....I have not yet figured out the 'thrill' of that sport
Because in golf, until you shoot an 18, there is always room for improvement.
We have a world class golf course a mile away. I have my own golf cart.
Golf is not a game. Golf is about character. I don't enjoy golf. I play golf. I'm reasonably good at golf. If I never swing a golf club again in my life, I won't miss it. That's because golf is a conflict of interest.
Gemela's mother hit her with shoes and slapped her. It is somewhat cultural. Doesn't make it right. But things that would get you arrested in the USA are common practice in Mexico. My mother spanked me so I don't mind the shoe if it is reasonable. But gemela started going over the top with it - I mean using a lot of force. She admitted it and told me she was afraid of how she was treating the girls and was glad that I stopped her.
I think gemela is a good mother. She just started taking her stress out on the girls.
Me making the unilateral decision to break up the family.
Quote
I have put up with a lot for a year but I can't see this going on forever.
.....with a WS, you mean!
...and as long as G. chooses to remain a WW....and not committ to M.....and you can't trust her....I don't see it as a 'unilateral' decision on your part.....
...and if you are considering 'forcing' yourself to live with a WW for the benefit of the girls...well...I think to the contrary.... it would not be in the interest of your DDs! ....because then you would go nuts....and they would have nobody!
Quote
I am beginning to be somewhat happy.
That's what happens when a WS is no longer in the picture... and if G. comes back a WS....it may not be a good idea for you to live under the same roof!
Quote
WW coming back is not going to make anything better.
Exactly....so...could she stay somewhere else? Get some professional to help the two of you 'communicate' better.... if G. says she wants to stay married.... what does 'staying married' mean to her? ....that sort of thing....
Quote
I like being a single dad. This is the most fun I have had in years.
....that's why I am in PLAN B.....I would rather live and face the challenges of life alone...than with a WS! ....very damaging....very toxic....
....so...I don't see you breaking up the family.... you would like your W back..... but given that for now you only have the choice to live, or not, with a WS.... need I say more?
...and I am not sure you are in a position to help G. get a clear understanding of what it would mean 'committing to the M'......let alone act on that..... a neutral professional I think would be better
Quote
But remember I am an engineer. We fix problems and, when we can't, we are a failure.
Well...that's something else you will have to work on Pio..... sometimes.... things can't always be fixed... the best one can hope for is....manage it!
(..want to give credit for this last idea where it is due....and it goes to Dr. Phil!)
ToddAC, Hope I did not offend you back when you told me I talk too much...if so, I apologize...I have the gift of putting my boot in my mouth!!! How goes the progress with WW?
Pio, I had a Pio morning and LOL thinking of you. On Friday I reviewed all 3 kids assignment notebooks and homework needs etc. Well, lets just say with all the dynamics of kids, soccer, infidelity, neighbors and home maintenance I seemed to tuck what I read back into the corners of my mind. The w/e was eventful but I'll get into that later. This morning DD1 had to get up 15 min early to put her new contacts in she was thrilled to get them and cried she was so happy to be able to see. Anyway, I packed lunches and got all the clothes laid out and woke up the troops. They all got dressed and were eating. T-20minutes to bus arrival. I am reviewing and signing the assignment notebooks when I notice...they are all supposed to be wearing red, white and blue!!!! Alarm Red, Alarm Red, this throws a huge wrench into the morning routine...I shuffle around and find appropriate clothing and get 2 out of 3 to change. DD1 refuses saying she is comfortable in what she has on and doesn't care if she has the right colors on. Ok, how patriotic is that in remembrance of 9-11 my DD1 wears...PINK! Oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. I thought of you Pio the entire time.
Lots of good advice from Luna, Grown-up, Kiwi and the rest of the gang.
Update on my sitch: H attended all kid functions this w/e. Stayed out all night Sat and made me mental...Sunday I confess to falling off the Pio plan. I found some items that were left out in the open and instead of just ignoring the storm trooper appeared and called out H on them...I think I was so hurt from his behavior Sat night that I really didn't think I could do anymore damage so I shot from the hip. I ended up apologizing for the comments and then H asked me what I really wanted. I listed at least 10 things: I want to be able to feel safe and not worry about what you do and who you are with; I want to never have to ask an "interrogating" question b/c you will have already shared all/anything with me that I should as your wife know about; I want to be able to trust you again; I want you to want to spend your time and $ with me and your family ...get the picture
H ran an errand last eve and was gone for 3 hours...I was ill from lack of sleep and horrific allergies so at 2130 I chugged some Nyquil and hit the sack...he came home after so we didn't talk. This morning he stayed home which is strange...I sent the kids off to school and he left saying he had to stop at work for a few minutes...he then called and asked what I was doing...asked me to go out with him. He took me to breakfast and then to a gallery. I was very touched. Only negative was that he had been to the gallery before...he was telling me about where things were and how it was when he was there before. I was so stressed wondering who he had been there with...he says he was alone but of course I have zero trust still so....anyway I kept telling myself that he asked me to go, took me and was finally making an effort to spend time with me so I should look at the positive and ignore my anxiety. Overall it went well, we had a nice morning. We have MC tomorrow so we will see what that brings.
Pio, I feel you are my accountability mentor so...one strike against me so far.
In general: I was thinking about Pio's sitch and how analytical he is...there is something that made G resort to her A behavior. I think the key is finding out what the underlying problem is. HNHN should be helpful in identifying what may have been missing. I have read it and would love for my H to fill out the Q but I think at this point it would be overkill...maybe the MC will give it as an assignment and take the heat off of me. I think that everyone is correct in advising IC/MC to get to the root of the problem.
Anyone who has been through MC have any tips on what good homework assignments brought BS/WS closer together? I checked out a book on MC homework assignments but haven't got to open it yet...I'll keep you all posted if I find any gems.
The past twenty four hours have not been so good. I didn't feel well last night, just "out of sorts". Earlier today, a numbness and tingling started in my head. I just got a callback from my doc and he wants me to go to the hospital. DS1 is on the way. Don't know how long I'll be there but will post when I return.
I feel like I've had time but the decision doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
...maybe you haven't gotten where you need to be, yet.... can you afford to keep going a little while longer pursuing your interest with 'employability' in mind before issues of 'practicality' take over?
...because nothing beats the combination of earning a living doing something you enjoy!
.....but then...it would be hard to pursue and focus on your interests....if you couldn't sleep at night....and say.... you could not feed your 3 baby birds!
....I like the 'combo' idea... a little bit of this and a little bit of that!
Quote
took what I could get from ex to work on marriage. He denied involvement with anyone & I was unable to find definitive proof. From the moment ex agreed to "give it a year" he was three quarters out the door in his head & in his heart.
Nams, if I have learned one thing, and one thing only from the past year that I have been on the MB Board is that...
...as long as WS chooses to remain a WS.....there is nothing a BS can do to save M...that's the hard part to accept....both need to want to.... and WS needs to shift priority back to the S and family from a very self-centered state of mind
.....sounds to me your WS was 'buying' time...a WS 'giving it a year'.....just means.....so that one day I can at least say: I tried.... then...separate.... and try to legitimize A with OW.....
...but, sooner or later, as you can tell already in your case...the TRUTH does come out!
Quote
None of this talks about the roles both of us played in the weakening of our marriage & how it lead to D but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. If you're interested ask what ever you'd like.
Nams...no need for details....none of us had a perfect M.....don't think there is such an 'animal'.....because we are humans.... we make mistakes... we correct them....we get help....but work WITHIN the marriage..... and if there is a problem too difficult to overcome....there is separation and divorce.... an A is never an option no matter how much WS's try to 'justify' this action......
...in my book....it just ISN'T.....
....when my WS attempted to give me reasons why he felt our M 'all of sudden' wasn't working..... I said: STOP..... after 20 yrs together.... you can find whatever you need to 'justify' leaving....because it's what you want to do!
....now, on the other hand, because I want to save the marriage....within those same 20 yrs I can find all the reasons to save it!
....bottom line.... both partners need to want to save the M.... or it won't work. Period.
None of this talks about the roles both of us played in the weakening of our marriage & how it lead to D but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. If you're interested ask what ever you'd like.
..you need to look at this for one reason and one reason only.....to avoid making the same mistakes twice!
My first marriage ended b/c I thought I could change my H...he didn't want kids and guess what...after 6 years he still didn't want kids...we ended up divorcing b/c this...FF to today...he still doesn't have kids
My current M...thought I learned but surprise...I have been trying to change my H's behavior since the start of our M...all of the behaviors existed from the start but again, I thought I could change them
A little analysis and introspection could save you repeating history
pio First of all I hope you have had a great Birthday, mine was so so.. as I was expecting some entusiasm from my H but I read that you wasnt expecting anything from G....right? I wish I could stay in same stage as you.. no expecting anything, Im a stuborn person... Well anyway I hope this new year of your life would be better than last one... 2006 for me was the worst year in my life... Im collecting what I seed (sembré?).. "cosechando lo que sembré" About you DD's I have the suspecious that one of them is more like you, and the other more like G right? or maybe all the fights are just kids stuffs... I have just one sister 4 years older than me,, and we fight for almost everything when we were kids... I more like my father caracter and my sister is more like momm..
luna- yes! Exactly right! Ex was buying time to say he tried & to legitimize the affair. Can't say it was a complete waste. I got a clearer picture of him & that helped me to see I wouldn't want him back even if he wanted it.
I've done a lot of self examination & understand clearly how my behavior contributed to a marriage with problems. I will not make those mistakes again.
Why would I when there are so many new ones I can make?
"cosechando lo que sembré" = you reap what you sow
Quote
I didn't feel well last night, just "out of sorts". Earlier today, a numbness and tingling started in my head.
Well ToddAC, don't assume the worst. If I had downed a bottle of Maker's Mark, I would feel that way too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Seriously, take care dude. Hope you are back soon.
Aphelion, Help me out. How does the story go about the guy who gets lost in the hot air balloon and stops to ask for directions? Okay, never mind. I googled it:
Quote
The Engineer and the Manager:
A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man below says: "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude."
"You must be an engineer," says the balloonist.
"I am," replies the man. "How did you know."
"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."
The man below says "You must be a manager."
"I am," replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You got where you are on nothing more than a lot of hot air. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."
2much,
I am glad the morning worked out for you. The only thing I can tell you is that it is mission critical to be absolutely consistent. Just try to remember that, no matter how much it hurts inside, your kindness is the worst possible punishment you could inflict on him. Your anger actually makes him feel better. You don't want that do you?
Thank you everyone for your well wishes. We got back a couple of hours ago and I immediately crashed. What is it about hospitals that makes you sick and tired?
I had both an MRI and a CT scan. I also gave up approximately three liters of blood. No bleeding and no "unusual" swelling. I guess I have "normal" swelling. The pain and numbness was traced to a scalp infection that resulted from burns to my scalp from the radiation beams. It is a laugh a minute sometimes, lol.
I was scheduled to get my first followup MRI tomorrow so today's MRI substituted for it. Unfortunately, there was no change in the tumor size. I was extremely disappointed but the docs told me not to make too much of the initial scan that it often takes more time to record improvements. Okay, but I am still disappointed.
Unfortunately, one of DS1's best friends died of a massive brain tumor several years ago. Great kid. I know it is hard on him right now. I just got off the phone with DS3 who is really upset. I think we all had high expectations. Maybe too high expectaitons, I don't know.
And yes WW called in the iterim. She asked what happened. I told her and she said "wow". Wow? That's all you can mutter? You know, it really ocurred to me tonight that her problem is she is really scared and doesn't know how to articulate it.
It's acknowledgement. It is a crack in the door. I think you view it too negatively given the source. I think you are both a bit scared and very sensitive. But you know me - always looking for that four leaf clover.
Hey that just reminded me of a song that I plan to teach the DDs and any of you with small children may benefit. It goes to the tune of "I'm looking over a four leaf clover".
I'm looking over my dead dog Rover who I hit with the power mower. One leg is missing, another is gone. A third leg is spread out all over the lawn. No need explaining the leg remaining is hanging from the kitchen door. I'm looking over my dead dog Rover who I hit with the power mower.
I just got a panicked call from DD2's teacher. Apparently DD2 is teaching the other kids some song about dead animals and a couple of the girls are traumatized. I SWEAR I don't know where these kids get these things. I am going to have a serious talk with DD2.
Yesterday evening the DDs were across the street playing at a friend's house. I went to get them right before 6:00 and told them to come home and do homework. We alked through the garage and I opened the kitchen door, turned around and found DD1 putting on her bicycle helmet and getting out her bike. I asked where she was going. She said riding. I said that she was not because she had homework to do. I closed the garage door. She tried to hit the beam but failed so the door closed. She took the helmet off and told me she hated me and that I was the meanest daddy ever. I responded that I loved her, she was absolutely right that I was the meanest daddy ever and was sorry about that but she was still going to do her homework. As she stormed past me, she said "well, I guess you aren't THAT mean. You aren't really mean at all. I love you daddy" and she got out her homework.
They went to take their showers with no complaints, got in bed with no complaints and went straight to sleep. I got out a DVD to watch with my newly found free time. I may have seen 10 minutes of it. Then I was asleep too. I did wake up the DDs this AM as they asked me too.
ToddAC,
I makes no sense at all but is slightly better than:
I'm looking over a three leafed clover that I overlooked bethree.
Yesterday evening I was sitting at the computer and I asked DD1 to set the table for her and DD2. She did it and then came over and asked me "are we good girls?" and I said "you are the best girls" and she asked "then why does mommy always spank us?". I explained it was because mommy loved them and did not want them to get hurt so was teaching them what the things they should not do.
I have also gotten the question "is Santa Clause real?". We have already covered where babies come from so I'm safe there. I just wonder what's next.
I think it's calculus. You have to integrate the area under the leaves or something like that. Did you get my email yesterday? Don't go running off on me again.
I'm not sure you need to respond. It was more or less a rhetorical email. I was just asking a favor. Don't read it until the magnetic poles of all your brain cells are properly realigned with the Earth's magnetic field. That MRI probably still has a few of them pointing the wrong way.
I like it but there is no need to invade France. If my DD2's kindergarten class went to visit France, I think France would surrender. Just wouldn't take much effort.
I have never preteneded to understand how MRI's work but I think it lines all the poles together. Poland would be so proud, woudn't they?
It is just a matter of time before they determine that MRI's are bad for you. I must confess, however, that MRI's have their good sorts. For my first one, I hid all of WW's credit cards in the gown. It eraed everything and she wasn't able to charge anything for two weeks. I saved twenty thousand dollar in that time. By then, replacemnt cards had arrived.
I must ask you to refrain from using the "I" word on this thread. Per US law, I am not allowed to be associated with any discussion of embargoed countries. I could do jail time. If you need to refer to that region, let's pick a euphamism such as "Western Pakistan" or something similarly harmless.
The silos are the nuclear equivalent of those plastic bags attached to the dropdown oxygen masks on airplanes. The ones that, if they DON'T inflate, they ARE working properly.
If the silos are NOT working, they ARE performing their function.
I flew one of Eastern AirLines last flight. It was from ATL to New Orlenas. The plane landed so hard in NO thst most of the oxygen masks fell down from the ceiling. A rather gay flight attendent spoke on the PA system: ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls, the captain has done it again. He has managed to find the airport. As if you didn't know, we are on the ground.
Well I also liked the bit where they are sitting around the war room planning the propogation of the species. 50 beautiful women for every one of the men. The looks on their faces was classic. Peter Sellers and George C Scott just crack me up in that scene. All of the sudden, nuclear war didn't seem so bad.
Todd, if I may be so bold. There isn't anything wrong with your brain. Nothing at all. I'm no doctor but I've seen huge improvements in you.
Except for the fact you seem to think it's Saturday down here. It's actually Tuesday evening.
To confuse you even further, we are entering the wonderful season of Spring. I have daffodils in my garden, the weather is warming up (sort of) and it will soon be summer. If I look outside right now it is dark and there is a moon, which could possibly mean it night.
We haven't heard from DD and b/f for nearly a week. They said they would be out of contact while they are on the yacht in Croatia with the outlaws but I miss hearing from her.
When they arrive in the States I will put her emails on here in full. She writes wonderfully and I'm sure you'll all be interested to see how she sees the good ol' USA.
If I may be so bold, there is nothing wrong with his brain that wasn't pre-existing. That seems more accurate.
It is not springtime here but fall has arrived. Instead of waking up to 32-33C, we now have a pleasant 26-28C and the highs are all the way down to 42C from the summertime 55+.
Yeah, I tell Rob that all the time - lucky the kids take after me.
I often tell the story of when my mother, me and DD were struggling around the supermarket about 3 days after my dad died. We were all completely spaced out but needed to shop. A woman came up to us and gushed all over us that we were all so alike and how sweet it was that all 3 of us were identical.
Poor woman, I don't think she expected the stony silence and grimaces that greeted her.
B/f has a very smart mouth but he's maturing all the time. I worked with him long before he met DD and asked him one day if he'd ever been punched in that smart mouth of his. I also told him that if he ever met my DD and laid one finger on her I would have his *$#% on a plate.
We still laugh about that. Er, no we don't actually.
It's funny how personal experience affects your perception of things. The third time I read that, I came to understand you had run out of food in the house. The first two times I read it, I took a completely different path. Funny how gemela influences me still.
LOL - I meant we had to provide food for ourselves - as you finally realised. We were like zombies but we pushed ourselves out the door. My mother still doesn't even know how she managed to walk down the aisles - she barely remembers it.
If I may be so bold again, the change in you since gemela has been gone has been breathtaking.
It's funny because a lot of my coworkers tell me I take their breath away - then they ask me to shower. I just haven't really had the need for the past two weeks.
Seriously, as each day goes by, I wonder if it isn't getting to be that much harder to ever consider getting back together with gemela. I am having a good time. I am not stressed wondering what she is up to. My costs are WAY down. I really struggle trying to find her "value added" any more. I have not read HNHN yet. Maybe that will give me a clue. I know it isn't SF. I have not enjoyed that with her for over a year. I dunno. I need to just stop thinking about it. I do dream about emptying her things out of the closet though. I would have so much space.
I would rather think about the fight I am going to have with DD2 this weekend. She IS going to learn to use her rollerblades or ELSE.
There is one problem. My annual air freight shipment is about to leave the USA. What on EARTH am I going to do with $6000 of scrapbook-making supplies and machinery? Do you know that gemela almost convinced me to buy a $600 Dyson vacuum cleaner just because my sister had one? I tried it and it was really nice. It did a fantastic job on the maggots. Then I thought - I don't vacuum - and NEITHER DOES GEMELA! So why would I go out and spend that much money on a vacuum cleaner just so the maid can break it trying to suck up Barbies? I spend a small fortune replacing belts on the vacuum we have. I wish I could convince the maid that the vacuum should not be used to fold towels and sheets. Must be the language barrier.
Speaking of language barriers, the maid called a bit ago and said "tonahdo". I asked "WHAT?". She repeated over and over "tonahdo" getting more animated all the time. I raced out of my office and sped home and threw the DDs into the bath tub and got a mattress to put over us and waited for the tornado to pass. While we are there, the maid comes in and is extremely angry and has a salad bowl in her hand that she is pointing to and she is screaming "TONAHDO TONAHDO". We were out of tomatoes.
I agree, gamela should be proving why you should choose to reinvest in her as a life partner. I don’t even think you should have to look for the reasons; the onus is on her to demonstrate them to you. She lost her entitlement…and should become the “I merit marriage martyr”…in order to regain that privileged place of trust.
(As to the container....with the amount of true need in the world, I can imagine a lot of things you could do with that money in the future rather than buying more scrap booking stuff!! So, hey if you need any ideas…)
I thought "scrapbooking" (it galls me that is a verb now) might give gemela a non-destructive use of her time. She is very creative. I guess I can learn to "scrapbook".
But you are right. That is pretty much how I view it. Gemela will have to convince me I should let her back in because I can't be bothered any more. If she is not willing to put out that little bit of effort, she knows where the door is.
Since someone got me onto management this AM, I have been googling like crazy for this. It took awhile because "flog" is not something in my normal vocabulary. Maybe it should have been. Oh well...
Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount and walk. However, management often tries other strategies with dead horses, including the following:
1. Buy a stronger whip. 2. Change riders. 3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always have ridden this horse." 4. Appoint a committee to study the horse. 5. Arrange to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses. 6. Rewrite the standards for dead horse performance. 7. Compare the state of dead horses in today's environment. 8. Change the specifications, declaring that, "This horse is not dead." 9. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse. 10. Harness several dead horses together to increase speed and pulling power. 11. Declare that, "No horse is too dead to beat." 12. Provide additional incentive funding and stock options to increase the horse's performance. 13. Do a Commercial Activities Study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper. 14. Purchase a software product to make dead horses run faster. 15. Declare the horse is "better, faster, and cheaper" dead. 16. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses. 17. Revisit the performance requirements for horses. 18. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable. 19. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position. 20. Establish benchmarks for industry dead-horse leaders. 21. Put together a PowerPoint presentation to get planners to double the dead-horse R&D budget. 22. Get the horse a website. 23. Declare that the horse is not in fact dead, but poised for growth. 24. Declare that since horse is dead, we must now ride smarter, not harder. 25. Declare that riding is not a core competency.
BTW, I had really been wanting a planer/jointer. I have never had one. I have lusted after planers/jointers for years. I even bought the "biscuits" hoping for the day I would own a planer/jointer. Well, I spent so much money on scrapbook stuff that I hardly spent a dime on the things I had planned to get for me. I didn't really need most of them anyway in that I can still live my life. But I needed that planer/jointer. I'm pretty sure it was an EN.
Sounds to me like your Plan B is the metaphorical emotional "planer/joiner": removing all that rough excess that gamela brought in...allowing you to rejoin the pieces of your family.
Before I catch up on the thread I wanted to share this with you.
One of my very good friends also had a brain tumor. She's an artist & has a website on which she talks about her experience. I thought you might be interested in looking at it. She appeared on 20/20 because of her experience & she has a link to that on her site. It's in the Temple of the Soul area.
google Sandi Gold & you'll get directed to her site.
If you check it out I'd be interested in hearing what you think.
I won't be back until later. I'm gallery sitting at the coop Sandi started (I sell my work there) & will probably be having lunch with her today. I'll see what's up with everyone later.
Can't say it was a complete waste. I got a clearer picture of him & that helped me to see I wouldn't want him back even if he wanted it.
You're talking my language.... that there is always something to learn from any experience in life ... In my case, I lived long enough with a WS to help me 'stick' to my PLAN B....and keep as faaar away as possible from WS...... and I never would have 'believed' if only someone would have just TOLD me..... but an S and a WS are really not the same person..... to avoid changing 'behaviour' a WS has to adhere to a whole new set of values.... often totally opposite of those of a S ... and immensely destructive to the 'family' dynamics....
Quote
I've done a lot of self examination & understand clearly how my behavior contributed to a marriage with problems. I will not make those mistakes again.
Care to share? ...or, NOT!
Quote
Why would I when there are so many new ones I can make?
LOL....I know...
Hi Pio,
What happens if you are a manager and an engineer?
BTW....you 'sound' like you are doing well....are you?
Guess once you got your DD's colour scheme under your belt... the rest of life now is a breeze! LOL.
Quote
You aren't really mean at all. I love you daddy" and she got out her homework.
....that's when I say that kids 'teach' us.... and another thing...how come kids can drive us crazy all day..... then 'buys us back' with one little tiny smile or kiss....
Quote
I am going to have a serious talk with DD2.
Yeah..well...good luck....papa Pio!
Quote
BTW, I had really been wanting a planer/jointer.
....should we all know what this is/does...because I don't... I have a suspicion...it's a TOOOOL of some sort!
Hi Todd,
I am with B...glad to hear it was just your scalp.
What happens if you are a manager and an engineer?
Well as it turns out, I am. It just means that you know what is wrong, know how to fix it but can't do a darn thing about it. I hate it.
Quote
Guess once you got your DD's colour scheme under your belt
Well tomorrow is "orange" day and I just surrender. It is Wednesday and the last day of the week. I did pretty well. I got 80% and that is passing.
Quote
then 'buys us back' with one little tiny smile or kiss
Because we're cheap.
Quote
should we all know what this is/does
Yes you should and the fact that you don't offends me. It was a very important EN and you simply dismiss it out of hand.
DD1 lost another tooth at school today. So now I have to stay up late to put money in the shoe under her bed. [I am the "ratoncito"]. Just that much less sleep. Ugh.
How is possible that same person shows so tenderness,(to his dd's) and at same time so cold (to his wife)? For me is difficult to understand this... I can understand that you dont miss SF but what another things, (su compañía, su risa, sus juegos, sus bromas, su cariño?) Im sure that G wasnt a monster with you, I just cant understand that you dont miss anything from her... Maybe you are more practical, and left your feelings behind... maybe your pain was so big, that you stop love G.. since long time ago... I dont know... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Are you insane? I gave my WW everything I had for a year. She continually rejected it. I did everything I could to save this marriage and she wanted none of it. Who was being cold and cruel? As you so correctly put it this morning, gemela cosecha lo que sembró. Please don't lecture me about being cold or cruel to gemela. I have never been that. Not for one minute. Please do try and remember who cheated on whom, who completely disregarded her family and her marriage vows and who rejected ever opportunity to get back in the marriage.
Do you have a point or do you just feel like busting my chops?
What is there to miss from gemela? She left the marriage a long time ago. What has she given me since? Pain, misery, abuse. Do I miss that? Absolutely not.
So please don't lecture me about what I should feel for gemela.
....should we all know what this is/does...because I don't... I have a suspicion...it's a TOOOOL of some sort!
Now...I will assume that my question is not being answered because there is major cross-posting on this thread... which is why I am bringing it up again....
Pio thought it funny to leave me 'hanging'....and now he's too busy giving heck to Regreted....
Now...let me preface...uhmmm.....suffix this????....by saying that it is not necessarily that I lack knowledge of tools..... I lack knowledge of the NAMES of tools in English.... all handywork done in French!
You got me on the joiner translation....and admittedly I am not that level of handyman....I am more the handy-man's admirerer-go fetch girl. (WOW! Honey, you're amazing. It looks great! Can I get you a beer?)
But I did put together the kid's dressers from IKEA! Does that count??
You got me on the joiner translation....and admittedly I am not that level of handyman....I am more the handy-man's admirerer-go fetch girl. (WOW! Honey, you're amazing. It looks great! Can I get you a beer?)
Hey, don't knock it. There's high demand for someone like you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Quote
But I did put together the kid's dressers from IKEA! Does that count??
Lo siento si te molesté con mi comentario... el punto es que me da la impresión de que todo ese coraje que sientes, aún sigue ahí, y a fin de cuentas a quien le hará más daño es a tí... Si realmente hubieras hecho todo lo que estuvo a tu alcance quizá aún estarías con G...dices que hiciste todo por ella, a pesar de su traición, eso solo lo sabes tú... yo creo que tu enojo nunca cambió... y el que digas que no la necesitas para nada, a quién fue tu compañera, por cuántos años? a la madre de tus hijas? Cierto que se equivocó terriblemente, si, y también es cierto que todo indica que aún no se da cuenta de su error...probablemente siga en su fantaasia con el OM.. pero quiero preguntarte algo, si en lugar del OM G se hubiera dedicado a beber o a drogarse, igual la dejarías a su suerte? le dirías "deja el alcohol, nos hace daño a todos y más a tí misma...." y listo... y si no lo hace pues adiós que le vaya bien? Tu eres una persona madura, adulta y G supuestamente también lo es... acorde a tus comentarios, la mayoría de las veces tu decidías las cosas, tu eras el pilar de todo, ella seguía loque decías no? y entonces cómo o quién la va a orientar para decidir lo correcto... Entiendo que todo ser humano tiene un límite y tampoco vas a estar en una relación solo por tener unida la familia, y si G te hartó y ya no la amas, ni la extrañas como tu compañera. pues entonces no hay más que decir... Ha pasado más de un año desde tu D day cierto? y cuántos duraron de casados? Para tí la solución solo está en G.... y esperas que ella sola decida lo correcto... amigo mio, y si está confundida? Lo siento probablemente soy muy terca y creo que ustedes podrían seguir adelante como pareja, como familia... creo que tarde o temprano G se dará cuenta de que el OM no sirve y que solo estaba soñando. Me da la impresión de que tienes un caracter fuerte y bueno mejor no digo más pues no te agrada que "defienda" a G... Sorry, a veces soy terca... aunque como dicen " a fuerza ni los zapatos entran"... ¿cuándo dejaste de amar a G? después del d day, que hizo de bueno G?
....should we all know what this is/does...because I don't... I have a suspicion...it's a TOOOOL of some sort!
Link below to a planer/jointer. The best way to distinguish between the two functions is that a planer cuts parallel to the feed deck and a jointer cuts perpendicular to the feed deck. I am sure that clears it up.
Unfortunately I am a year away from another planer/jointer window. I might be able to get one here but it would be the wrong voltage/frequency. The transformer required to change the voltage for that much Hp would be about the size of a Volkswagen Beetle.
Did regreted say anything? I don't feel like reading her posts any more.
Alright, I admit it. My success with the dressers was more about IKEAs success at putting together an instruction booklet for the "spatially-challenged"!(And I dont mean my butt!)
But it still felt nice to say: "Look honey, nothing's on backwards or upside-down!" Oh and I got MAJOR points too...since apparently for handymen there is really no joy in assembling pre-cut furniture. Its just dishes and laundry, if you know what I mean.
WOW! That machine really is impressive. Does it come with a first-aid kit?
Ok pio, I understood, if someone writes about something that you dont like, you just ignore it... fine... I respect that... Before stop posting in your thread, I want to say thank you for all your suggestions, and for the letter that you wrote to my H.. I appreciate it...
since apparently for handymen there is really no joy in assembling pre-cut furniture.
Actually, Ahuman....some may even consider this an insult... and some do not appreciate IKEA flooding the world with their standard run-of-the-mill models produced in the thousands (even in the name of affordableness!) and in so doing reducing the demand for the 'uniqueness' of works of art produced by the so-called handyman who is slowly being driven into 'extinction'.....due to low demand....
....I have seen my S unable to resist buying a tool.... that we did not actually need....in case we might have project and would need it!
...wish he had stuck to new tools!..... I could live with THAT!
Todd, Sorry about your episode yesterday...glad you are back home and feeling a bit better. Be optimistic with the XRT...if they say it is too soon to judge then try to be patient...I can't imagine what you are going through...hopefully sarcastic diversions by loose cannons like myself occupy your time that would otherwise be wasted worrying. What type of XRT did you have? Have you already had I 125 implants? I know you said this course was the last for you but I didn't remember what type.
I am praying for you and thinking that I need some superman secrets to get me through the day...any tips for a blabbermouth?
The therapy I had is called franctionated or hyperfractionated doses. Instead of one large dose, usually around 20 Gy, approximately 2.0 Gy are given in two to three doses daily, M-F, for four to six weeks. The ultimate goal is to deliver around 50 Gy in total.
Yes, I had implants and received many compliments but after the FDA silicone warning, my surgeon removed them.
Oh, wait, you mean the radioactive pellets or similar stuff? No, because of the tumor location, surgery and even a biopsy was not possible nor were the implants. There may be an opportunity for chemo if I agree to it, but apparently chemo is not well-suited for brain tumors. I forgot the reason although there are ways around it. There are also "experimental" therapies like gene therapy and some new medicines. And, there is always Mexico.
Tips for getting thru the day? I try to remember that all suffering, all wrongs and injustices are relative. When I grew up, and I have probably told this story numerous times but here goes again, the barber shop I went to had a shoe shine stand. Above the stand was a sign that read:
I felt sorry for myself Because I had no shoes Until I met a man With no feet.
Now, as pedestrian as that saying is, it teaches a great lesson. Also, when I attended my first and last local tumor support group meeting, there was a young man - I would guess to be 19 - 20 who had a Stage 4 glioblastoma multiforme. Make no mistake about it: that kid was going to be dead in less than six months or so. Still, his demeanor and attitude were so unburdened and so positve that he unknowingly belittled me. Again, a lesson of relativity. Moreover, one of my oldest son's best friends was diagnosed with a Stage 4 glioblastoma a few years ago. An Emory surgeon removed the tumor and described it as the size of a grapefruit. Yet, his friend never faltered in his attitude.
Here were two kids, robbed of early life, with attitudes of gold. When I start to wallow in self-pity and ask "why me?" I think of those two young men.
Finally, a friend told me several years ago a neat way to take your mind off your problems: wear a pair of shoes two sizes too small. I am here to say that it works.
When you buy one, look into the Hitachi model. It is a great unit. BTW, do you own a lathe? Drill press? Radial arm saw? Channelocks?
...let me guess....at one time or another...you have personally owned these tools? (...and will I be sorry that I asked!)
Now, Luna, why would you be sorry you asked?
The only above tool I currently own are channelocks. Let me be clear: a man is not a man if he doesn't own channelocks. My Daddy taught me that one! I formerly owned a drill press but somebody sold it in a garage sale. I have always coveted a lathe but honestly, I am, or used to be, a hand tools woodworker. Razor saw, four-in-one shoe rasp, surfoam, chisels, plane and of course - clamps. You cannot own too many clamps in my book. Years ago, I bought the necessary wood to build an acoustic steel string guitar. Mahogany neck, sides and back and Sitka spruce soundboard. I chiseled and sanded the neck to perfect shape and dimension. Then I cut the spruce soundboard to shape and was ready to glue the internal braces that cause the soundboard to withstand the 200 lbs. of pressure exerted by six steel strings and I could not find the quarter-sawn spruce blank from which to cut and shape the braces.
I went to the most likely source of the spruce disappearence: my youngest son who was about six or seven at the time. He said, oh yeah that wood, my friend and I used it to make an airplane out of my bike so it would fly. I clenched my teeth, held my breath and calmly asked where was the wood now? He said come on, I'll show it to you. He did. It had been cut into a million pieces with a ten penny nail driven thru each piece and most pieces had major dents. I never worked on the guitar another day after that and in fact, gave up woodworking altogether. I did think to ask him if his airplane in fact flew. He said yes, we drove the bicycle up and over a ramp and flew for one hundred feet. Well, at least he got to fly.
Now that I have had some rest, I want to explain my "cognitive deficits". I know my IQ. It was routinely measured in elementary and junior high school. I decided to take one of the online IQ tests just to see how much degradation I had suffered. I could not get past the third question. And this was the math portion which, trust me, math has always come easy to me. So, I decided to try the analogies section. You know those questions where you have to match an odd looking figure and if turned inside out and rotated 90 degrees, select the one on the right that it would be? I think that is called spatial reasoning. I have always aced those tests. I could not do the simple ones. My verbal skills have slipped less but then they had less room to slip. Or maybe as Pio asserted, I have always had such deficits. I really cannot remember too well. Maybe Pio is right. Has he ever been right before?
Here's another clue I believe. You know the acheivement tests they give in school? I scored in the upper 1% on every test in every year they were administered. Except one: reading comprehension. I scored in the upper 13% on that test. Not bad but, again, relatively, it was bad. So, the counselor grabbed me: why can't you comprehend what you read? She gave me a sample passage to read and then answer the quesitons. She manually scored it and proceeded to tell me which ones I answered incorrectly. They asked me to explain why I answered as I did. After I explained, she shifted uncomfotably in her seat, as if she acknowledged that my answer, although wrong, had technical merit. I thought it was a right answer. I truly believe my reading comprehension results from two deficincies: my mind wonders and I tend to think about things different than convention. Not bragging because it is not a good thinng, just different. Anyway, mercifully to the point, my reading comphrehension has fallen off the map. Sometimes when I read a post here on MB, I have to read it several times to understand it. There have been a couple of posts recently that I still don't understand. And it is I, not the author. So, anyway, since you are an English professor, if you can offer me any hints or help with reading comprehension, I would appreciate it.
Yes, I did go to Sandi Gold's website. The only link within the tumor section takes you to Mass General's radiation therapy website. She only mentions that she had an inoperable tumor. Do you know what type?
What's interesting about tending to the crops comment is....hmmm how can I say this? My SF drive has remained constant since I was a teenager whereas WW hit menopause and almost shut down SF completely. I surmise that by then she was already involved with OM hence the fantasy was hatched.
Todd, I think trying online IQ tests when you're still suffering the side effects of the MRI is probably a bit premature. I don't think your native intelligence has dropped one point.
As for reading comprehension. I think my brain is just wired like that. I started reading before I started school and I've read and read ever since. Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with your comprehension at all. I failed math so many times it's not funny.
Sheesh, we all struggle with some posts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I find that a poster named Pio really makes me struggle with comprehension. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> j/k
Isn't Pio the one who keeps posting off topic? The nerve of some people!
Thanks, but I afraid my native intelligence has suffered mightily. But anyway, I pledged to myself to return to being positive today so that is the charge.
I do not own a lathe. I really have never had that much need that I needed one 24/7 in my house. I have used them and we have several available here in the wood shop. I do have everuthing else EXCEPT the planer/jointer. Sorry it is a little blurry but here is en example of something I built here for the DDs
I admit I didn't really need a jointer to do that but could have used the planer. The wood here is just horrible and impossible to use for finish work.
I would like to get back into cabinetry and make some doll house projects and other things with the DDs. Just need the tool. DD1 is already excited that we are going to make a bird house together when the shipment comes. I bought enough "good" wood for a few projects but not enough for a doll house and certainly not enough for cabinets. Besides, what am I going to do with all these biscuits?
Did I mention that the house has remote control AC?
I go to the restaurant. We're to meet at six I'm 3 to 5 minutes late. I go inside, no date. I sit & wait for 15 minutes. No date. I get in my car & drive to see my friend. Date calls to ask where I am. I say I was at the restaurant, waited 15 minutes, left & am now with a friend.
Date says a last minute thing came up he got there as soon as he could. Hadn't apologized, didn't phone though he had my number. He asks me to come to restaurant I say no , I'd be irritated let's make it another day.
He apologizes says he should have called. Says "come to the restaurant, after all I apologized.". Still I say no, another time. Back & forth one last time I say perhaps another day he says no let's not.
This was a first date. We've only been in contact (in contact via dating site) for a couple of weeks, email, phone calls.
Opinions?
My feeling is ona first date one usually tries to make a good impression. I felt he tried to guilt me into going to restaurant. My feeling is as a gentleman he should have 1, called to say he would be late 2, apologized right away, 3. should have understood he screwed up & been gracious about waiting for another time.
Todd - when you get to Sandi's site click on the icon for Temple of the Soul. Once there go to the bottom of the page where you'll see a video to play. That's the 20/20 piece about her brain tumor.
She had an "arterial venus malformation or brain lesion or angio blastoma depending on who you talk to".
makes a bad first impression. Yes he could have called you or the restaurant. The part about "after all, I apologized" bothers me for some reason. It is very disrespectful.
I can already extend that. "Hey, I'm sorry I cheated on you but, after all, I DID apologize".
No big deal really. I refuse to "emotionally invest" when meeting someone on line. There have been people I've chatted with, felt great rapport, meet them...zilch, nada, no atraction at all. And I'm not one that insists on instant chemistry. Besides I've got another one up my sleeve.
Hi Luna :-) Hi Kiwi :-)
OK, caught up on the thread. Sheesh, you engineers. Just can't keep yourself from tools & mechanical stuff.
Here's a story about an engineer:
A pregnant woman & her H were expecting their first child. The woman's water broke they rush to the hospital. The woman tries to push the baby out but the child won't come. After twenty four hours in labour without success a C-section needs to be performed.
Rush to the operating room. As the woman is being preped the H, an engineer, remarks about the equipment, says how interesting it is to him as an engineer. Ignoring scared W to talk about electronic equipment...I should have seen the red flag.
This was a first date. We've only been in contact (in contact via dating site) for a couple of weeks, email, phone calls.
Opinions?
Yes, drop him like a hot potato. A man should be a gentleman first and foremost. To keep you waiting and later concede, I should have called you is a bad sign.
Okay, now that you have breached the discussion of dating sites, I will confess that I have visited a couple of them. I won't date until I am divorced but still....curiouslity got the better of me.
So, you are a woman, please explain something to me.
Every, or almost every woman, on these sites say or do the same three things:
1. They love to dance and are looking for a man who "likes to dance like nobody is looking". Male input: No self-respecting man likes to dance.
2. You must love my three Rottwilers, my Doberman and my Pit Bull. Okay, I like dogs as much as the next guy, but four killers? And they put pictures of all their dogs in their profile.
3. They almost all include one or more pics of them with another man. Please help me understand this one. Are they saying: see, I can get a man! Or are they saying, hey fool, you had better be better looking that this dude! Womens are very confusing these days.
Of course, I haven't dated since I was twenty, so what do I know?
Followon question: What is it about dancing that womens like so much?
You know, here it is forty four years later, or so, and a revelation just hit me: the way I learned my IQ was to read it, upside down, as my high school counselor was cajoling me about something. But, since it was upside down, and I didn't transpose the number, I had the wrong notion of my IQ. I read 88. But, upside down, it is 88. So, there, I feel better for having corrected the record. 88 it is. Almost as hot as a 100 W light bulb.
The women & their dogs are the equivalent of men with their fish.
Honeslty I don't look at other womens's profiles. Some people do so they can "see what they're up against". I figure I am who I am so I'll just write what I want people to know or what I think is important to know about me.
Pleanty of men crop out women from their pictures too. Not unlike what you did with the picture of your boys.
Here's one of my pet peeves. Men will say "I look younger than my years" "people tell me I look 10, 15 years younger than I am...I act younger...plus they want someone 16 years younger. Pa leeze.
I think of dating sites as just another way to be introduced to people. They claim all kinds of experience, knowledge in getting people together but nothing beats face to face.
Oh, men & their cars or motorcycles.
As for dancing...I guess it's the fun, loose kinda thing.
OK, since you've all fallen asleep at your keyboards, I'm off.
Todd, Sandi is a dear, dear friend of mine whom I love with all my heart. She offers these wellness work shops that involve self expression. I took a one day class with her & it was an eye opener. You don't need any art background & in fact it's probably better if you don't have one. I'm artsy & felt I was expressing myself fairly well through my work but I'm really not, not always. Her class help me to get in touch with some things I was unaware of. Maybe you can find a similar class. She works through two hospitals so perhaps there's something in your area.
It's kinda like a massage, you don't really know how tense you are until you feel how loose you are after the massage. It's that with your mind & emotions.
To this day, so many years after her brain tumor odeal, people still come to her as if she is a becon.
Well I finally did read some of regreted's post. She just has no clue. That probably explains why she feels she can continue to lie and cheat and still save her marriage. Good luck with that one. I guess she needs to be cheated on to really understand what it is that both she and gemela have done. Glad she is gone.
lunamare (at least I think it was you) - you have caused me a lot of grief with the Dr. Phil post. I know anger is a secondary emotion but thanks for reminding me. I just want to say that I am so proud of myself for pulling "orange" day out of the toilet. Now DD2 will be 100%. It makes me proud.
All I can say is TGIW and tomorrow is the weekend. I have no big plans other than to go into town to try to find some New Zealand beef. For the last two weeks, all I can find in the commissary is USA beef and it is way too expensive and way too much fat compared to NZ or Australian beef.
BTW I agree too that ToddAC is as smart as a flog. I am just trying to find ways to work that into my vocabulary. I didn't work out this AM. I sat on my bathroom floor with my little electric heater and reflected. Well I also absorbed some too but I reflected a lot. I decided that I am going to have to eventually get out and do some adult things (not XXX stuff - just things without kids). Unfortunately soccer starts next week and I have been forced into being a coach for 7-8 YO girls. Maybe they will give me a whistle.
ToddAC,
I misled you earlier. I don't have a radial arm saw. I am deathly afraid of them. Stems from a classmate cutting off his fingers in shop on day. He tried to rip cut. Big mistake. The thing about a radial arm saw is that the blade goes the opposite rotation from a table saw. Very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. I have a Delta combination miter saw with extentable legs.
which is good enough and a nice Ryobi BT3100 table saw to get the rest. When necessary, I can go up to the woodshop and use their tools. Being the largest oil company in the world, we have nice things and tools are no exception.
What I could really use though is a router table. I have a Makita router (well - two actually) and I bought a Ryobi router because the Ryobi saw has a place on the table made to mount a router. I just bought the wrong Ryobi router. I might try to make a router table - would be easier with a planer/jointer.
The planer/jointer will have to remain a fantasy a while longer. The thing is, if I had the planer/jointer, I could easily make shoe holders for all gemela's shoes and boots and get rid of the boxes. That would save space and remove hiding places for things like secret cell phones.
Anyway, I hope you are feeling better. I may be sending you a few emails this weekend. I could have some OT issues that I need to discuss OL on the QT PDQ.
And to answer someone's question, yes gemela does know about this web site. She has posted before but stopped in about January. I don't think she has much interest any more which is why I feel somewhat free to post my feelings. Even so, I have to be a little careful because she could be lurking. Not very likely though - I don't think she believes there is much benefit to MB.
I misled you earlier. I don't have a radial arm saw. I am deathly afraid of them. Stems from a classmate cutting off his fingers in shop on day. He tried to rip cut. Big mistake. The thing about a radial arm saw is that the blade goes the opposite rotation from a table saw. Very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
In my view, a table saw is more dangerous than a radial arm saw. But let's be perky here: any power tool is dangerous if proper safety procedures are not followed. Wanna know a dangerous saw? Band saw. Those scare me.
I used to have a nice router table. Someone sold it in a garage sale. Want to guess who?
Let's see we have lost larousse. She hasn't posted in what...two weeks?
yes band saws are dangerous but I don't fear them.
larousse is out finding a gum machine in Mexico City so she can get engaged.
2much is feeding grapes to WH.
regreted is upset and now (hopefully) leaving me alone. Did you read what she wrote me yesterday? Where is she coming from? Am I alone in thinking she is clueless with regard to my sitch?
larousse is out finding a gum machine in Mexico City so she can get engaged.
I have a box of cracker jack. Should I send it to her? She may find that elusive diamond ring inside.
Quote
2much is feeding grapes to WH.
Are the grapes peeled?
Quote
regreted is upset and now (hopefully) leaving me alone. Did you read what she wrote me yesterday? Where is she coming from? Am I alone in thinking she is clueless with regard to my sitch?
It is obvious that regreted projects her own sitch onto yours. She described herself and BH as both having dominant personalities. I think it is difficult for her to admit she messed up and yet, as you say, still belives that lies will save her marriage. Lies will be the fall of her marriage. Hate to generalize but it must be something in the water because WW also thinks she can lie her way out of this mess.
Okay, fair warning was issued. Here are the lyrics to my current earworm. Love this song. Saw him/them on the Letterman show last week.
Gnarls Barkley - Crazy Lyrics
I remember when, I remember, I remember when I lost my mind There was something so plesant about that place Even your emotions had an echo in so much space
And when you're out there,without care Yeah I was out of touch But it wasn't because I didn't know enough I just knew too much
Does that make me crazy? Does that make me crazy? Does that make me crazy? Probably
And I hope that you are havin' the time of your life But think twice, that's my only advice
Come on now who do you, who do you, who do you, who do you think you are, ha ha ha, bless your soul You really think you're in control
well, I think you're Crazy I think you're Crazy I think you're Crazy Just like me
My heroes had the heart to live their lives out on a limb And all I remember is thinkin' I wanna be like them.
Ever since I was little, ever since I was little it looked like fun And there's no coincidence I've come And I can die when I'm done
Okay, in the morning to you would be Saturday? Pio has started his weekend already so it is Friday there so Saturday makes sense for NZ. Then, why is it only early Wednesday morning here?
No. It either already is Wednesday or will be Wednesday in a few minutes everywhere in the world that is important. The rest doesn't matter - just a few insignificant islands mostly.
I agree about regreted. I think she confuses me with her WH sometimes. I think she believes that gemela is doing everything to try to salvage the marriage because regreted is (well sort of trying). What regreted does not understand is that gemela has kept embracing the A and refused to commit to the M. Anyway, I am tired of talking about regreted. I am also tired of misspelling it.
I am really upset. We are sitting here at lunch watching the adventures of Penelope Pitstop and [censored] Dastardly and Muttley are hiding at a bridge with a rope attached to a concrete slab in the bridge. As the Wacky Racers come by, they plan to pull the rope and make the Wacky racers go splash in the river so that [censored] and Muttley can win the race.
Excuuuse me but if [censored] and Muttley are in a position to pull that rope, aren't they already in FIRST PLACE?!?!?!? What do they take me for? an idiot?!?!?
Having time zones on the half hour must really mess up TV schedules.
I don't know about that. Look in your own back yard. Ted Turner made a success out of it with his "5 minute shift". I thought it was a great strategy. Maybe not now in the Tivo ago but back then it was groundbreaking.
I had an opportunity to get a lathe. I turned it down. Get it? Turned it down? Gee I crack myself up.
Excuuuse me but if [censored] and Muttley are in a position to pull that rope, aren't they already in FIRST PLACE?!?!?!? What do they take me for? an idiot?!?!?
This is a cartoon, no? You are not supposed to think while watching cartoons.
I had an opportunity to get a lathe. I turned it down. Get it? Turned it down? Gee I crack myself up.
Have you ever read "The Lathe of Heaven" by Ursula LeGuine (sp)? Great SF book.
Wonder if we could make as many tool jokes as Robby made sheep jokes? The ladies in this thread would really appreciate them, wouldn't they? I could be wrong but I think they got a little tired of the planer/jointer discussion.
Personally I don't like to joke about tools. I also don't read IV very much so don't know what you are talking about.
I went into Lowe's with WW and DDs while in Houston. I soon left. I told WW I would have to come back by myself so I could be alone.
I am not a big fan of hardware stores any more since things like Home Depot and Lowes came around but there is a fantastic hardware store in Fort Smith, Arkansas named Yeager's Ace hardware. Now normally I don't think much of Ace Hardware but Yeager's has taken it to a new level. I could go there every single day. It is as close to the perfect hardware store as I have ever seen. I recommend people travel to Fort Smith just to admire it.
Good (my) morning! The rest of you can adjust that accordingly.
Back on the tools? Sheesh.
I actually learned how to oporate many power tools including a planer/joiner & a lathe. ex was in the army & there was a woodshop on base so we did it together for recreation. What I didn't like was the noise. Kinda took what could have been contemplative time & shattered it with the loudness.
Ace is the place with the helpful hardware man.
Wow, math & science won't stick in my head but that does. Maybe because it's accompanied by a tune. Hey! Brilliant idea! Math formulas need to be taught to music. Math jingles if you will. I'm gunna copyright that.
The new guy I spoke about in a post, the one up my sleeve, hasn't gotten back to me since I called Bush "a spoiled rich boy & stupid to boot". Wonder if he's a Bush lover. I think I'll sit back & see what comes of this.
I'm thinking that after my near date last night I'm feeling a little fiesty so I tossed out the cheap & easy political taunt. No effort needed really.
Actually I agree with the concept that to be polite one doesn't discuss religion or politics.
Guess I wasn't being polite when I said those things to the man up my sleeve but he kinda asked for by claiming to be conservative. Wonder if I chased him off...darn...we actually had a good phone conversation & that's saying a lot since I hate the phone.
Is it me or do those conservatives seem to get their panties in a bunch rather easily?
I'll stop, I'm not being polite & that would disappoint my father.
I couldn’t sleep last night. My mind kept wandering on-and-on about this and that. At some point it landed on:“the cumulative time I have spent doing something.”
Did you know that to date, I have spent an estimated 40 days (970 hours) waiting in line? And 21.5 days as a driver waiting at stop lights.
I think I am going to start eating more ice cream. I really like ice cream
Thank you both. I am very happy with them. Vanessa looks a little "squatty" but she just is not too big on good posture most of the time. She isn't really squatty - just lazy.
Just looked at your tree house....Geesh....I am impressed!
Quote
lunamare (at least I think it was you) - you have caused me a lot of grief with the Dr. Phil post. I know anger is a secondary emotion but thanks for reminding me.
....you're welcome!
Quote
Now DD2 will be 100%. It makes me proud.
..100% of what...exactly??? and...
Quote
All I can say is TGIW and tomorrow is the weekend.
....are your weekends in the middle of the week!
Quote
Gee I crack myself up.
Let's keep this between us......otherwise, some other people might think you are ready for the 'nut' house! ...Well.... at least you're not 'angry'.....LOL.
...and, yes, even though I am not a 'toolman'....I got it!
Papa Pio......your girls are just ..... adooooorable!
Nams,
Quote
My feeling is ona first date one usually tries to make a good impression. I felt he tried to guilt me into going to restaurant. My feeling is as a gentleman he should have 1, called to say he would be late 2, apologized right away, 3. should have understood he screwed up & been gracious about waiting for another time.
I am with you....
and with Todd,
Quote
Yes, drop him like a hot potato.
Quote
the man up my sleeve
....aren't you ticklish???
Hi Todd,
Quote
Love this song.
Me, too...thanks for the lyrics....now I can drive my boys 'crazy' singing it around the house!
....I have also been known to do a good Elvis Presley imitation... don't look like him....I do the 'hips' thing very well...
Quote
I could be wrong but I think they got a little tired of the planer/jointer discussion.
...You think?????.....LOL.....just kidding..... the ladies here have been around guys enough to actually be disappointed were the guys here NOT to talk about TOOLS! .....knowing why we ended up here....this would be the least of our worries!
Hi Ahuman,
Quote
Did you know that to date, I have spent an estimated 40 days (970 hours) waiting in line? And 21.5 days as a driver waiting at stop lights.
I could be wrong....but it sounds to me you have a liiiiittle too much time on your hands...
No, Todd I won't explain my political philosophy. I was rude to come in & drop my little stink bomb just because I was feeling...icky...after last nights non-date. It's an easy way to get people going & was looking for a debate to watch from the comfort of my home. Are you upset with me?
I generalize about the people who come from the same area of the country I do. It's wrong & childish & I'm certain I need to be punished for it.
I do like the lyrics you posted earlier, not so much the Barry White ones. His music is more visceral.
I have not listed the conditions this go around yet. Shortly after DD, we sat down and I unfurled the best plan A I could muster. It included the previously listed conditions. She accepted every one without debate but later broke every one of them and consistently claimed that she was "not going to be tied down" (transparency), she was not going to IC/MC since all therpaists are crazy and all they want is your money (best friend talking), NC letter (she claims she hasn't talked to or seen OM in over a year). Apparently, she is not aware of the cell logs, telephone recordings, caller ID records and PI reports that I have. I forgot the other one.
What I am doing, in effect, is giving the situation time to cool down and then will present the idea of R and the conditions. I expect her to reject all the conditions outright. I will make it clear that R can only be accomplsihed on a sturdy foundation and that a foundation composed of lies will not stand. I still expect her to reject. Honestly, this is my last good faith effort to salvage the marriage and (here comes the crazy part) I don't really want to salvage it. Due to her duplitious behavior, I can never trust her again and frankly, I don't wish to be married to a woman I cannot trust. I guess if I am honest, I am doing this so I can look in the mirror and look into my sons' eyes and tell them I tried. Giving WW enough rope to hang herself is a good way of putting it.
You disappoint. I had engaged myself for political debate. Oh well. Just so you know, I am not a conservative nor Republican. I am a Libertarian. Both Dems and Reps want big government. They just want the big government to do different things. I want a federal government so small it would scare most folks.
No answer on Iran either? You know that Iran has announced as a goal the destruction of Israel and the US....
I would never 2x4 anyone who tries to save their marriage.
I would only say it sounds to me like you done this very thing with your WW more than once already. Is this just to give her one last chance to pull herself together?
Believe me, I made every attempt, outside of confirming an affair & exposing it, & I don't regret it though it was horrible. I can look my kids in the eyes knowing I gave their father every opportuniy to rejoin the marriage & keep the family whole. That's what mattered most to me.
Okay, to continue with "great" lyrics, here is "The Logical Song" by Supertramp.
When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful, a miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical. And all the birds in the trees, well they'd be singing so happily, joyfully, playfully watching me. But then they send me away to teach me how to be sensible, logical, responsible, practical. And they showed me a world where I could be so dependable, clinical, intellectual, cynical...
There are times when all the world's asleep, the questions run too deep for such a simple man. Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned I know it sounds absurd but please tell me who I am.
Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, liberal, fanatical, criminal... Won't you sign up your name, we'd like to feel you're acceptable, respecable, presentable, a vegtable...
At night, when all the world's asleep, the questions run so deep for such a simple man. Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned I know it sounds absurd but please tell me who I am.
Todd, did you get the info. on the kind of tumor Sandi had?
No, no discussion of any kind concerning politics. My very smart father told me polite people do not discuss politics or religion publically. I should have stuck to that earlier. Funny, when I was droping my bomb I wondered if I'd regret it. I usualy do when I let things flywithout forethought.
Not to say you're not polite Todd.
I wonder if you approach the video from a different angle. Maybe google 20/20 see if they have archives.
Hi Tod I wish I could write well in english, so I could explain me better... Im not projected my case to pio's case, Im not cheating or lying my H, I just can be 100% transparent, because his reaction after D day.. Im "clean" since D day, my A ('s)finished, and I working to be a better person and for recovering my M.. On my D day my H started to drink,he hurt himself, and he wanted to kill himself.... days before he crashed his car, and he got a neck pain.. well besides this there is the issue of violence, he hit me three times, last one by back and I know my H has a trouble dealing with his ira. so is not a water issue as you said, Im not hidding hole truth just because I want to stay in another A , or because Im a coubard...I want to keep my family and M alive, and I want to make happy to my H, and step by step I have learned how can I fiil my H EN's..
Sorry if you need to translate my spanglish...
I wrote some things in spanish to pio, that were bad for him..I didnt have intention to botter pio, I apologized, I just expressed my point of view...
I confess that some time ago, I read some G posts and I know another point of view, nor just pio's point of view...
And also as Im a WW I understand somethings about G...I just tried to express my point of view to pio, but it was a mistake...
Thanks Tod, and my best wishes for you.
Thanks pio for your advices, and the letter that you wrote to my H, sorry again..
Im not hidding hole truth just because I want to stay in another A , or because Im a coubard...I want to keep my family and M alive, and I want to make happy to my H, and step by step I have learned how can I fiil my H EN's..
regreted,
I completely understand this and I can appreciate how you would believe that lying, or withholding the truth, will help your marriage. But I am here to tell you that lies will destroy your marriage quicker than anything. It has destroyed mine. The truth hurts. The only thing worse than the pain of truth is the pain of lies.
Im agree with you, I think if I not work in myself, and with professional help I need to know why I did what I did.. and work in myself problems... in order to be a better person.. Im the one that failed, so I need to work in myself... I started to be or at least Im trying to be a better wife... as you said once, now Im not the dominant person that I used to be... and my H saw the change!!! and he is lees mad than before...Im optimistic about our M...
Probably not. I need to move and set up house. Not a good setup here. I will either make a sandwich or order Chinese or something.
Quote
Did you get a crock pot?
No, wouldn't know what to do with one.
Quote
When are you going to have the sit down with your WW?
Probably next week. I will be leaving Thursday or Friday to spend a few days with my best friend. He needs help with his business and what the heck? I have time on my hands. First order of business will be to develop an inventory control system in Excel.
So, anyway, will probably meet with WW the following weekend.
So, I will post a poem anyway. This is a powerful poem by a Georgian, Carson McCullers. I believe she is one of the most underrated writers of the twentieth century, but hey, Kiwi hates her and she is an English professor married to a poet, so what the heck do I know?
The Mortgaged Heart
The dead demand a double vision. A furthered zone, Ghostly decision of apportionment. For the dead can claim The lover's senses, the mortgaged heart.
Watch twice the orchard blossoms in gray rain And to the cold rose skies bring twin surprise. Endure each summons once, and once again; Experience multiplied by two--the duty recognized. Instruct the quivering spirit, instant nerve To schizophrenic master serve, Or like a homeless Doppelgänger Blind love might wander.
The mortgage of the dead is known. Prepare the cherished wreath, the garland door. But the secluded ash, the humble bone-- Do the dead know?
As I remember the Nantucket poem is changable & rather salty.
Every third or fourth year I have some deer come & eat my plants. This year they've stayed a way. At first I was happy to just watch them, then when they did some real damage I developed a desire for venison.
As I remember the Nantucket poem is changable & rather salty.
That explains why I don't know it.
Quote
Every third or fourth year I have some deer come & eat my plants. This year they've stayed a way. At first I was happy to just watch them, then when they did some real damage I developed a desire for venison.
There is a trick to preventing deer from eating shrubs. Find them so much deer corn that they have no appetite for shrubs. The other trick is to sprinkle bloodmeal on and around the plant.
Have you figured out how to keep snakes out of your yard?
We were playing marbles this last evening and, I must say, I really cleaned up. I mean I had some ricochets you wouldn't believe. I wiped the floor with the DDs. I simply showed no mercy. I...
Wait, I did have a point. Oh yes. WW called and talked to DD1. According to DD1, WW will be coming home in two weeks.
Valeria says that you told her you will be coming back in two weeks. I am not in agreement with that. For me, absolutely nothing has changed. You are still an unfaithful wife who would prefer to continue her affair rather than try to salvage your marriage. Having a few weeks vacation in Mexico with your family has accomplished nothing with respect to your attitude. This is the happiest I have been in over a year. I don't have to worry about where you are, who you are seeing, what you are doing secretly behind my back, how much money you are spending on clothes or how many shoes you are buying or who you are sleeping with. As far as I am concerned, I would like our separation to continue indefinitely and we can discuss a visitation plan for the children. I don't know how long - but at least until such time as you accept responsibility for what you have done and are willing to try to repair the damage.
All I know is how I feel and, when I heard you were coming back in two weeks, it just made me sad. I don't want to go back to that life of misery you created for me. I am very happy being without you. I know this is difficult on the children but sooner or later we have to accept the fact that they may not have their family together. We both love them and we will share in their upbringing. Maybe, at some point in the future when things have changed considerably, we can see whether our marriage will work but, right now, I can't see that you are any different. And since you are no different, you would offer me nothing more but the same miserable life you have been giving me for the last two years.
So what is it you are offering me by coming back? All I can see you are offering me is a return to the pain and suffering you created. Valeria and Vanessa are doing great. It is not that they need you here - it is that you want to be here. Once again, everything is about you and what you want. You have zero consideration for me and what I want or need or even the children for that matter. To me, this just further proves how selfish you have become. It is not healthy for the children to see us fighting or arguing. Do they need a mother? Yes. I won't argue that. Do they need a mother like you who teaches them that marriage is nothing but a convenience that you can betray any time you wish? What kind of role model would you offer them as a mother. Valeria asked me the other day why you beat them all the time. How do I answer that?
I have been putting up with your affair for over a year and I have offered you every opportunity to remain in the marriage. That was probably a mistake. You have never really had to work for much of anything and as a result, you don't appreciate what you had. My suggestion is that you come back to visit at Christmas and then we discuss how we will handle permanent separation. I will say that I am not willing to consider letting you take the children to live in Mexico. You can have visitation. They can spend the summers with you in Mexico but they will go to school here.
Coming back in two weeks is a terrible idea.
And, before you go whacking me, I already sent it.
OMG. I wish I hadn't done it. I feel so horrible. I just have to get this out.
Last night before we played marbles, I went in with flat shoes and squished the carpet down all in the same direction so that the "grain" would all go the same way. As a result, the aggie had a break to the left. DD1 never figured out how to read the break. I am such a terrible person. Can I be forgiven? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
Okay so I made that up. But it is a great idea and I think I will try it tonight!!!
I got DD1's aggie in the drill press and made a small hole halfway through. I was lucky it didn't crack but I used a titanium bit and slow speed. Now if I can just remember the melting point of lead, I am going to spike her marble. See how she handles that one! bwaahaaahaaahaa! BWAAHAAAHAAAHAA!
Todd, I don't "hate" Carson McCullers. I will try it again. It just didn't speak to me.
Pio, you are a despicable person and will NEVER be forgiven. Spiking that adorable child's marble. HOW COULD YOU EVEN THINK SUCH A THING. However, flattening the carpet could work.
The girls are beautiful BTW. They obviously don't take after you.
No bashing about the email. It all needed to be said. I never thought I would see bwaahhaahaa in a post of yours. I can only say that you are a changed man, dare I say it, a happy man.
Sorry but being nice to gemela never accomplished anything. Soshe might read that and say stuff the marriage. That is fine with me. I am really starting to enjoy life again and I don't want to lose that. Why did she just decide to come back so soon without even discussing it? Or why didn't she tell me BEFORE saying anything the DD1? It is because she thinks she can get by with anything.
Sorry but being nice to gemela never accomplished anything. Soshe might read that and say stuff the marriage. That is fine with me. I am really starting to enjoy life again and I don't want to lose that. Why did she just decide to come back so soon without even discussing it? Or why didn't she tell me BEFORE saying anything the DD1? It is because she thinks she can get by with anything.
I am in complete agreement that she should not come back now. Nothing would have been accomplished. And I agree that she should have discussed coming home with you and not DD1. But, be that as it may, your tone was harsh. I am not suggesting lovey dovey; just a matter of fact without all the LB's. If you truly don't care, file for D and get it over with. I wouldn't do anything about the email at this point. You have already sent it; let it stand.
I am exhausted from speed reading to catch up! I had horrific computer issues and my laptop was running at a snails pace...took me 8 hours to clean it up, defrag, dump programs etc to get it back to speed! I am such a pack rat that I even hoard electronic stuff and consume tons of space.
Sooooooo, where to begin...
Todd...I'm sure you are a bit critical of your memory issues and the most aware, however despite your perception we seem to think you are a MENSA board member...maybe that doesn't say much for us but...
Your plan for WW makes lots of sense to me
Kiwi, I luv your quick witted responses to Pio about his pyle strategy...had me going for a sec
Pio, DDs are exquisite and will be breaking hearts just with a smile...you may need to install bars on that killer tree house. My DDs would kill for one like that but they wouldn't be able to share so I would need to whip up two separate houses.
I love the Dakota tribal philosophy and have the power point that goes with it...ironically I've had it since 2002 and have used it in several managerial meetings...I was called a loose cannon at one such exec mtg though...
I think perhaps the stormtrooper made and appearance and drafted that subtle email message you sent?
I was not peeling or feeding grapes to H; I was at MC where he announced he wanted a D; he then said he didn't love me, then took it back and said he was just being hurtful...left MC without me and returned to work. Next he texted some stuff trying to test the waters...he spent the night "sleeping in the car"...called and talked to the kids this morning and then came home for an hour to talk to me tonight.
During our talk tonight he broke down and said it was easier to say he wanted a D than to admit the truth which was that "I am a [email]B@st@rD[/email] and have treated you horribly; you are a good person and don't deserve any of this; I keep hurting you and it makes me sad and so I keep pulling further away to prevent having to deal with your pain and mine. I don't want to hurt you anymore but I am afraid I might slip up sometime again and disappoint you"...lots more accepting of responsibility and apologizing...this is the first remorse I have ever seen and he has actually gone back to the beginning and apologized for a variety of things and stated that it was all him.
Not sure where to go from here...I told him he needs to decide what he wants and where he wants to go. I told him I think we could bounce back from this with lots of work and time. I said I didn't want any decisions being made based on reactions or emotion and that I sincerely wanted him to take time to think this through and bring back a decision on what direction to take. I told him if he was staying in the house there would be ground rules during his period of indecision...I laid down the deal breakers.
I am almost on the verge of how Todd feels, making a final effort for the sake of the kids but I do still have feelings despite the he!! I've been through.
Nams, I hate to disappoint Pio but I wouldn't have engaged in a cat fight over the Bushwhacking...although it may have been fun...I would have just said that it is thanks to Prez Bush and our troops that we all have the freedom to state our opinions and sleep sound at night not fearing for our lives
Guess I'll go polish my boots and wait to see who's posting lyrics tonight...Todd, do you like Damien Rice? Favorite is Cold Water
Whoever it was that was watching cartoons...when I was 5 I fell in love with...Speed Racer, actually thought he was real...watching it as an adult you see all the round circles in the crowd at the race track and wonder how you could ever think it was real???? Wish I could recapture the innocence of youth...ok, maybe I was just dumb!
I should add that you now have a PR burden on you with DD1. She thinks WW is coming home in two weeks. Let WW fix it and make it clear to WW that she discusses with you when to come back, not DD1.
Has anyone tried Parmesean Basil wheat thins??? They are delectable...I'm having my nightly wine and snacking and had to throw it out there...Todd, its a good snack for a low stress kitchen. You really should get a crock pot though...so easy and makes great comfort food/soups/stews.
Todd...I'm sure you are a bit critical of your memory issues and the most aware, however despite your perception we seem to think you are a MENSA board member...maybe that doesn't say much for us but...
Hi 2much,
Talk too much, drink too much.
Sorry just had to say that.
No, not a MENSA board member or even a regular member. I never have been interested in that group. Honestly, the standards for admission are too low. Just kidding.
Well, 2much, I hope it is remorse that your WH is demonstrating and that he is not manipulating. Forgive me for I have become....dang, I cannot think of the word. Anyway, WW has feigned remorse a couple of times but when I reality tested it, she fell through the false floor.
In any event, I must say that women seem to have infinite amounts of patience. I hold women in extremely high regard. They are clearly the superior gender and what they will do to keep their family unit intact always impresses me. I am afraid that I don't have the emotional stamina to do so.
Oh, so you want to discuss politics? I will let you start....
Quote
Todd, do you like Damien Rice?
Who is she? A singer? Actress?
BTW, 2much, how long have you been at this? R that is.
Okay, now you have done it. Somehow, you made me think of Mario Puzo. Don't ask me how. He obviously is best known for "The Godfather" but he wrote several other books, at least two of which were quite literary. Anyway, has anyone read "Fools Die"? Wonderful book and for some reason, I feel compelled to post the preface of that book. Maybe I will and maybe I won't.
Hey 2much, what did you think of Madonna's lyricsw? She is not just another pretty face is she? Those lyrics speak of bunches of gray matter. Or is it grey matter? Kiwi?
I love soups and stews but I have no idea what to do with a crock pot. Do I just throw a bunch of stuff in there and plug it in? Is it really that easy? My son suggested that I get a George Foreman grill. I may do that. I love George. Talk about someone who blossomed in his later years.
During our talk tonight he broke down and said it was easier to say he wanted a D than to admit the truth which was that "I am a [email]B@st@rD[/email] and have treated you horribly; you are a good person and don't deserve any of this; I keep hurting you and it makes me sad and so I keep pulling further away to prevent having to deal with your pain and mine. I don't want to hurt you anymore but I am afraid I might slip up sometime again and disappoint you"...
My response to that conversation was that is was my decision to make and not WW's. She should only decide what she wanted and she had no place making my decisions for me. I was able to make that clear with her and I think it helped.
No, can't drink too much...runs in my family so I limit to a max of 2 on days off and 1 on "school nights"...I have to say that everything I have done in my life that I seriously regret was done when I was under the influence shall we say? I never drank heavily on a consistent basis but quickly discovered when partying hard that it is in the genes and how ridiculous I act when drunk...I'm sure I was loads of fun but paid the price.
Ok, I have at GF grill and it is great for burgers, chicken, pork chops, you name it and sucks everybit of grease out of it...a bit lacking on the flavor due to the no grease factor but if seasoned properly you can have a delectable meal in 30 minutes tops.
Crock pot is that easy...just throw all ingredients in at the beginning, set the temp on high, med or low and wait hours...doesn't require stirring unless you feel compelled to do so. There are oodles of recipes for crock pots/slow cookers so there should be no problem being creative. Beef stew is the easiest.
I like Puzo too.
Damien Rice is a singer
I have been M for 11 years...previous M of 6 years ended due to XH not wanting children.
I am very patient in some respects but ironically my biggest problem in this whole recovery attempt is my acid tongue and lack of patience...
I agree this remorse could be an attempt at manipulation but knowing my H as long as I have I can say at the moment it was spoken it was authentic...could it change...absolutely just like my hair color:)
Todd - A crock pot is easy. They are cheap - under $20. In the morning you just throw everything in - meat, vegetables(peel first), and a tiny bit of water. Then it all cooks slowly during the day, and VOILA - a home cooked meal.
I already considered the PR problem with DD1 but I didn't create it. Gemela did that all by herself so she needs to solve it. I am no longer in the business of solving the problems she creates.
Roght now I am more concerned with buying a replacement chain for my chain saw and getting after the palm tree. The gardener across the street borrowed my chain saw, got it stuck such that the chain came off, he put the chain on backwards and then worked like crazy trying to cut down a tree.
Why would WW not discuss with me her return prior to mentioning it to the DDs?
As far as the DDs sharing the treehouse, ever heard of time-share?
Pio, I forgot to mention this to you the other day...I am no domestic goddess but I did buy myself the Dyson Animal ($500) and it is worth every penny...sucks up dirt, dust, hair like no other. I have 2 dogs and 1 cat not to mention the 3 beasts...I mean darling children who trash through the house as if it were a stadium. I have hardwood floors and area carpets and would never go back to an ordinary vacuum. No, I don't work for Dyson...could be a new career though...
Time out is a more common phrase in my abode vs. time share! My girls do almost nothing together...the 4 yr age diff is pretty significant at this point in life. Both DD1 and DD2 spend equal time with DS though...go figure
I totally agree the Dyson is brilliant. It even turns corners. Did I mention how easily it sucked up all the maggots at my sister's house? And you can still see them in there squirming around! But as far as cleaning up cat hair goes, I can have the maid crawl around on all fours with sticky tape and accomplish the same thing. Takes long but is more cost-effective. As I said, I don't vacuum and gemela certainly does not vacuum. My maid already breaks my Kenmore on a regular basis. Why let her break an even more expensive vacuum?
I told her that she had already been making way too many decisions for the both of us (hint - the A) and it was time she stopped. Apparently she is still doing it - e.g. the imminent return.
If G doesn't even vacuum why would she care what kind of equipment you have? Was she competing with someone or just like to have all the new high end goodies?
No one cares about my wheat thin discovery...
I made a CD of misery songs today to include REM "Everybody Hurts" Allanis Morriset "You Oughta Know" Damien Rice "Cold Water" just to name a few...it was quite a catharsis
As if such a simple oversight would offend a tough guy like yourself...to use Nams phrase...how does she say it...Puhhha leeze!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I mean, please accecpt my apologies BK, I noted you made a quick comment amongst all of the tool talk etc but that you schwacked Pio for the email...I breezed past that and got on a roll talking about my MC encounter.
I seriously value your opinion <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I told her that she had already been making way too many decisions for the both of us (hint - the A) and it was time she stopped. Apparently she is still doing it - e.g. the imminent return
Do you really think she intended to return or maybe was just baiting you to see your reaction?
I agree, BigK has excellent opinions and is very knowledgable of MB principles.
Anyway 2much, here is a somewhat lighter song form Browne.
Called "Hold Out".
Baby I guess you know my story Baby I guess you know my side It seems Ive traded love for glory But Im still not satisfied
Given all the years All the cries and cheers Dont amount to much more than pride Take my love for you Take tomorrow too Theres not much left inside
How we laughed when we first knew love Singing dum-de-lum-de-lie I taught you how to see life through love Then I taught you how to cry And though I must have known How easily love is thrown I took some chances, I dont know why Theres not much you can do You wish that Id been true Darlin so do i
Now you better hold out Go on and hold out Go ahead and hold out For what you know love can be Move on and hold out Dont let your love be sold out If theres anyone who knows about it Baby thats me
Ahh youre right You cant forget the way I lied Time has seen you grow, To lead your life alone Though you tried and tried Cried and cried
Baby I guess you know my story Maybe theres not much left to say You know the more we take the more we Turn each others hearts away Now Ill be leaving in the morning Leaving half of me behind To find the pieces lifes been torn in And take whatever love I find
But you better hold out Go on and hold out Just walk away and hold out For what you know love can be Move on and hold out Dont let your love be sold out Its starting to be cold out For people who live like me Move on and hold out And somewhere later no doubt Youll find another hold out Someone just like you baby, wait and see..
heheheh 2Much - I was only pulling your leg. It was Todd that schwacked Pio - not me. He's in a terrible bind. Poor man is just starting to get some peace and she wants to just walk back in like nothing has happened.
We got a Miele vacuum when we had to move to a rental property due to wanting our marriage more than contact with OM (next door neighbour) They are pretty slick. We have a Valet ducted system at home - better than anything else.
Thanks, nice and lite JB. Here's one for you that my H told me months ago made him think of us:
"Goodbye My Lover"
Did I disappoint you or let you down? Should I be feeling guilty or let the judges frown? 'Cause I saw the end before we'd begun, Yes I saw you were blinded and I knew I had won. So I took what's mine by eternal right. Took your soul out into the night. It may be over but it won't stop there, I am here for you if you'd only care. You touched my heart you touched my soul. You changed my life and all my goals. And love is blind and that I knew when, My heart was blinded by you. I've kissed your lips and held your hand. Shared your dreams and shared your bed. I know you well, I know your smell. I've been addicted to you.
[x2] Goodbye my lover. Goodbye my friend. You have been the one. You have been the one for me.
I am a dreamer and when i wake, You can't break my spirit - it's my dreams you take. And as you move on, remember me, Remember us and all we used to be I've seen you cry, I've seen you smile. I've watched you sleeping for a while. I'd be the father of your child. I'd spend a lifetime with you. I know your fears and you know mine. We've had our doubts but now we're fine, And I love you, I swear that's true. I cannot live without you.
[x2] Goodbye my lover. Goodbye my friend. You have been the one. You have been the one for me.
And I still hold your hand in mine. In mine when I'm asleep. And I will bare my soul in time, When I'm kneeling at your feet. Goodbye my lover. Goodbye my friend. You have been the one. You have been the one for me.
I'm so hollow, baby, I'm so hollow. I'm so, I'm so, I'm so hollow. I'm so hollow, baby, I'm so hollow. I'm so, I'm so, I'm so hollow.
Wow...sounds like you have the elite vac system going? I once was impressed by the Kirby demo's but for some reason fell for the Dyson...I'm sure the crazy appearance and colors are psychologically captivating not to mention the performance. I never got too into vacuums until I ended up being the one doing all the cleaning and then of course it became a #1 priority:)
I've always been a fan of quality products though...it is worth it to dish out the dough if you are going to take care of the equipment. We spent a fortune on a Weber grill the year we got M...still have it and is in tip top shape...changed out the internal parts last year after 10yr and is just like new...sadly I do drool over the new stainless steel grills out now
Did I mention I love Kitchen Aide products too? Not to mention Craftsman, Europro and LL Bean
Yes bigK was neutral. Believe LB'ed me and ToddAC DJ'ed me. Like the tag team match when one guy distracts the referee. Ouch.
My only comment to those two is what ever happened to radical honesty. I put up with a waffling WW for a year. Do you know what? I could easily go back and take more punishment/abuse if it weren't for the continued lies. Hasta la fecha she has yet to come forth and start being completely honest. I just cannot go back to the lies and deception. I can tolerate most anything but that. If she had been being honest with me, I would be much more understanding.
Now I have to go into town to look for NZ or Aussie beef. I do not like to buy USA beef for reasons already stated. I also need new legs for the DDs' beds because I have underbed tuppers coming in the shipment, I need a new chain for the chain saw and I may just splurge and get me a minifridge for the garage. It would meet an EN.
BTW, do you realize that there are many different kinds of palm trees? There are date palms, coconut palms and who knows what else? Mine serves none of those useful purposes. It's only functions are to hold one side of the hammock, provide support for the rope light, give a little bit of shade and propogate itself with thousands of berries that, if left too long get ripe, turn black and STINK! So I can't let it go too long. Now if it happened to make electronic blackberries, I might be more understanding of it. These are organic, smell, splat when they fall and stain everything within line-of-sight.
Well obviously Jen, but exactly WHAT am I correct about? Not sure if you are DJ'ing me after all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Stop making it worse Todd. I can just see you smirking away as you pour more gasoline on the flames and I put my foot further and further into my mouth.
You said I should leave gemela hope. Dr. Cymanca made a nice post yesterday on another thread. He said something like any WW can save her marriage at any time. That's it in a nutshell. gemela always had the power to save this marriage. She still does. She doesn't get my help right now.
Well I bought enough beef that I think I actually can reassemble the cow so that is what I am working on now since I have some free time. It doesn't have a tail though. I also found USA fruit (very expensive here). I bought seedless grapes, seedless oranges, seedless watermelon, seedless apples. Makes me wonder how they make new ones? No seeds? Oh it's the USA. They probably have machines to make those fruits.
So I go into Extra to look for my minifridge because they carry some 120V appliances. I see one I like, the right size and a good price and it happens to be the only one that says 120V on the tag. I ask the salesman for one. He tells me that these only come in 220V. So I ask what he has in 120V. He says he has an LG that is 120V so I look at it. It is larger than I want, more expensive than I want so I tell him I'll take it. Beggars can't be choosers. He says he will go in the back, find it and take it to register #3 and it will take him about 15 minutes. I say okay. 30 minutes later he comes and finds me in the store and tells me that the LG is only 220V but that he does have the one I originally looked at in 120V and asks if I want it. I say yes.
The truly sad part is that I have lived here long enough that this seems perfectly normal.
BTW nams, it isn't rude to make bold political statements. It is rude to make bold political statements and run away so we can't pummel you.
Todd I ran out of here last night due to a school supply emergency. OS said he'd get kicked out of school if he didn't have book covers & note books. I certainly didn't want him here to home school again (did it for 1/2 a year & we're both happy he went back). He's a love even if he is somewhat dramatic.
Snakes - I can think of three ways to get rid of them. You have to do them in a certain order so no one gets hurt. 1. Hire a snake charmer. 2. Hire an exorsist. 3. Fire. The snake charmer is probably harmless so you want him before you try fire. The exorsist...well, that's a personal choice.
2mch - excuse my big mouth please. Our troops are to be thanked & appreciated for the incredibly hard & dangerous work they do. We are indeed fortunate to have the freedom to express ourselves freely.
You're Wheat Thin discovery is noteworthy. The Wheat Thin people & the cranberry people have a lot in common. Once they discovered you could mix flavors they didn't hold back.
Pio - I don't like to be pummeled that's why I dropped & ran then came back to beg forgiveness for my rash words. I'm still working on a suitable punishment.
I've only been on this thread for a short time & haven't gone back to the beginning to see the difference in you people remark about. I will tell you the image I get of you from your current words. I picture you with your girls, they at the table while you cook dinner. You chatting to them in a happy, light hearted way. Not sure but I think you're wearing an apron. You have a lightness about you, almost a glow.
On to the very important topic of vacs. I have a Kirby. It works great but it weighs a ton. I got it because of my boys alergies & asthma. Now that we have a dog they love to death trying to keep alergies at bay is useless. Well that & I hate cleaning.
Let me set you straight. DD1 wanted steak today. I had a hard time getting motivated to do anything today so I started working on the garage a bit. The minifridge created its own problem that would be solved if I could raise it six inches. I got out the golf cart, hauled out the table saw, took all my measurements, cut the legs for my short table, went to look for some scrap plywood, discovered I didn't actually have any scrap plywood, kicked myself, put the table saw back, the golf cart back, then set the minifridge up on a few bricks and it seemed to work just fine.
I decided I needed to work off my frustration so I got out my Remington pole saw (chain saw on a 15 foot pole), put the extension ladder up in the tree that continually tries to overhang the tree house and I cut the tops off. Of course this tree is full of thorns so I am all bloody now. It is hot outside (about 106F) and I was tired and going to blow off the palm tree but I saw some of the berries were turning black so I put up the ladder and cut off all the berries with the pole saw and then got out my saws-all and cut off the brown palm fronds. Now I am really hot but the DDs are hungry so I get the charcoal going but first I had to haul the grill outside to get rid of all the ash so that the charcoal could have air to burn. Charcoal is going so I get the steaks and potatoes ready and go outside to cook, I ask the DDs to set the table but they get into a big fight because DD2 says she has a stomach ache (this is a work avoidance ploy) so DD1 is angry at both of us (I'm outside so I'm not sure what I did).
I get the food inside and am working on the potato for DD1 (butter, sour cream and cheese) but we get into a debate over whether you can eat the skin or not do we compromise and I skin half the potato. I cut up her steak and she sits at the table to eat but then needs salt and lemon on her steak (a Mexican thing) so I stop working on DD2's potato to cut the lemon. Now DD2 won't eat the skin at all so I burn my fingers getting every bit off. I finally get her to sit down and eat. I have saw dust all over me and I smell really bad because I have been sweating all afternoon. DDs eat and then get into an argument over whether they will go on the water slide or not. They go into the living room to watch cartoons and I clean up the kitchen and wash dishes.
Oh, forgot to mention, while we were eating we got into a debate about where steak comes from (cow) and why steak doesn't taste like cow. I cannot convince DD1 she has no point of reference because she has never actually tasted a live cow so we decide it is a draw and go onto to discuss what a potato is made out of.
DDs are upstairs supposedly putting on their swimsuits. I am covered in wood chips and blood, smell like three day old sweat and charcoal smoke. I can assure you that I am NOT glowing. But all is under control and we once again have peace in the world.
Piojitos...it seems that you are rather happy without Gemela. Hmm....anyways,,,,dont you think is rather unfair for her to see the girls so seldom? You want her to "visit" in Christmas. That seems like a long time for those two little girls without seeing their mom. Have you put herself in her psoition? I know she has not put herself in your shoes, but have you? I am sure even if she was unfaithfull,she was a good mom to those two little girls, and they need her, and she needs them too. Even if you two dont love each other anymore. You are their dad, and even if you try to fill Gemelas place , you can't!
Gemela should move to SA close to you, so she can see them as much as possible. Its only fair for your daughters.
The problem with that is that gemela wants to be close to her family. According to her, her family is in Mexico. I would have no problem with her living in SA and being close to the girls if that is what she wants to do.
Indeed that is a big problem. If thats the case, then she is not as good of a mother as she should be. Her family is you and those little girls. NOt the ones in Mexico.
IMO gemela has never been a mother to the girls in the sense that I understand. They have been more like living Barbie dolls for her. Maybe I am being too critical. IMO her mother doing most of the dirty work in rasing the babies didn't let gemela get as attached to them as maybe she could have. I don't know. But gemela has never viewed us as her true family. She views her mother, father and sister as her true family. That is kind of odd because it is a highly dysfunctional family. MIL and FIL hadn't spoken a word to each other in 14 years until last summer.
OK, Pio in the ephemeral sense you glow. You glow in a sweaty sort of smelly way. It beats bitter.
I see two words in your post that stand out "under control" & "peace in the world". Sounds pretty good to me.
Funny, your daughter is mad but you don't know why. My guess...she imagines you're letting her sister slide because she claims a tummy ache.
Pottery duties call. I'm lucky to be able to answer the call. No substituting so far this school year. The teacher's are behaving themselves & not calling in sick. I give a another week or so.
Todd must be out investigating the purchase of a crock pot.
Just to clarify one point. I cannot prevent gemela from coming back any time she wants. She has a passport and ticket in hand. All I can do is request that she stay away for a reasonable period of time. I can't force it.
Well, if thats the case with Gemela and the girls, then you should do ANYTHING possible for their happiness. Because at their age, they should really be close to their mom. If Gemela wants to come back for selfish reasons, then she should not!! Let her stay in Mexico, then.
Things are great with Stanley and me. Thanks for asking. Our recovery is just going upward now, thank goodness!
I walked up to Kroger this morning and bought a crockpot. It is made by Betty Crocker. It is called a Crocker Pot so I guess it is the same as a crock pot? I read the menus briefly but it encouraged the new "crocker cook" to experiment so that is what I did. I put the following ingredients in the crocker:
2 pork chops 1 rib-eye steak corn green beans strawberries two bananas cup milk cup flour 2 popcycles 1 cup water salt pepper oregano thyme tomatoes catsup BBQ sauce Heniz 57 taco 2 glazed donuts capers 3 whole limes
I mixed everything and plugged the crocker in. I figure pork chops take 30 minutes to grill, depending on thickness of course, but I know that crockers cook slow, so I set the time to 90 minutes. Since it was a soupy concontion, I put a serving of the mixture in a bowl. I got a plastic spoon and tried it.
I don't think I like the crocker. It tasted awful. And the pork chops were not even cooked all the way! 90 minutes! I think I got a defect so I took the crocker back to Kroger. I forgot to empty the rest of the soup, so they tasted it. They agreed that the crocker was defective. I am walking to the English Pub for lunch. I am done with crocker cooking.
It's because you forgot the peanut butter and jalapeños. Check the recipe again.
Well, after the pico de gallo disaster, not so sure I wanted more peppers of any kind. I do love peanut butter and am not sitting here kicking myself for not adding it.
Quote
Oh, and since you only slow-cooked the pork chops for 90 minutes, you might want to do a little research on trichinosis.
Well, explain that to me. Is it a spice? type of mushroom?
Honestly, I wish WW would show up with a plate of rice and beans.
I cannot prevent gemela from coming back any time she wants. She has a passport and ticket in hand. All I can do is request that she stay away for a reasonable period of time. I can't force it.
I know that due to the high traffic and cross-posting some questions go amiss ( and some real 'pearls' are lost to cyberspace, too) ....which is why I will ask again.
If G. comes back earlier than expected, can she stay somewhere else? with the two of you seeing the girls SEPARATELY? ...until you come to some kind of understanding of what the two of will do with your M?
As I sit here waiting for my friend to pick me up and transport me to bliss, I feel like a failure. My first attempt at crockery and I blew it. Everyone said it was easy. Not to me. I am inspired by the Neil Young song blow.
BTW, don't know if I will have web access. Hopefully so but if not, will talk to y'all late Tuesday.
My life is changing in so many ways I dont know who to trust anymore Theres a shadow running thru my days Like a beggar going from door to door.
I was thinking that maybe Id get a maid Find a place nearby for her to stay. Just someone to keep my house clean, Fix my meals and go away.
A maid. a man needs a maid. A maid.
Its hard to make that change When life and love turns strange. And old.
To give a love, you gotta live a love. To live a love, you gotta be part of When will I see you again?
A while ago somewhere I dont know when I was watching a movie with a friend. I fell in love with the actress. She was playing a part that I could understand.
ToddAC, Roaring laughter at your crocktale! It sounds like maybe you need to hire a cook to prep a weeks worth of meals for you weekly that you can just heat up. I had a friend who did this and it worked out quite well for her. She picked the menu and the hired cook did the grocery shopping and cooking. This may be the easiest way to get what you want when you want it. Did you like the lyrics I sent you last night?
Pio, I think you love getting dirty, love the loud noise and constant chaos of the DDs...you would be lost and depressed if you were not surrounded by the demands of the girls and life in general. If/when G comes back you will need to decide if you are going to share the responsibilities and work as a team to create a family environment. Sounds like before you each did your own thing and then had some family time...is that about right? That would be my ideal...having us all cook together and do the yardwork and home improvement stuff together instead of working independently. H and I do our best when working together on big projects.
Nams, I was just bust'n your chops about the Bushwhack'n...everyone has their own opinions and that is what makes life so interesting and adventurous...how boring if we all agreed...think that is a huge marital issue with folks including self...hard to agree to disagree and respect each others opinions and feelings if they are polar opposites...even harder if they used to be similar to yours and then overtime and with exposure to OPs they evolve to a distant place...
Kiwi, I just realized that I bet you cringe reading some of my posts...I 'm not big on editing or spell checking etc so feel free to jump in and let me have it...
Hello to BK, Believer...Myrta hello we haven't met before If I forgot anyone don't be offended I haven't had my quota of coffee yet
UPdate: H spent night at friends as we had earlier agreed on...called this am and invited me to go out...took me to breakfast and to a secret garden...no R talk, kid talk, fighting etc. It was very nice...felt that old electricity back...it only made me long for things to be better and made me kinda sad...I didn't show it but I was. I am trying to be optimistic but wonder if I am trying to fool myself just to try and be happy again or if I"m just having an emotional insecurity episode. Of course the garden is somewhere he has never been with me but was "told about" be a female friend. I guess I just want to go somewhere that will be a first for both of us...is that asking too much? Should I just be happy that he is making some type of effort? I have no idea how any of this is going to turn out...I perhaps should just look at it as an adventure and try to have as much fun as I can since I don't know how long it will last.
Well due to a strange quirk of fate, WW has not gotten that email. So I asked SIL's OM to replace it with this email (since WW is expecting an email)
I asked him to give her this instead:
We agreed that you would go to Mexico and take enough time to think about what it is you want with your future. That you would take enough time to decide whether you wanted marriage or divorce. You have only been there a couple of weeks and I can't see how that is anywhere near long enough to give this any thought. I really don't want you to come back to Saudi until you can give me a decision that is either marriage or divorce. There is no way I want to go back to the way we were living. The affair has not been the problem for a long time. It is the lies and dishonesty that is the problem. I won't go back to that.
The girls are fine right now and I am very happy not dealing with the disnonesty. I would ask you the favor of not promising Valeria that you are going to come back at a certain time until we can discuss it and see what this all means. My guess is that over the past couple of weeks you have had little more than a vacation with your family. I doubt you have put much thought into the marriage. The whole purpose of you going to Mexico was so that we would not return to Saudi to the same thing we had left. Neither one of us wants the life we were living ever again. Please spend more time there and decide what it is you really want before coming back.
My friend is stuck in traffic and lost also. He has no sense of direction. Anyway, do you know where I went wrong with the Crockery?
The recipe I used reminds me to a true incident years ago. WW decided that she had the perfect recipe and wanted to send it off in response to one of those ads where, if they approve your recipe, they publish it in a book and you can make millions. I told her it was a scam. She told me I didn't know that. So, I made a deal with her. I will write out the worst sounding recipe that is so bad, so crazy that nobody in their right mind would use it. If they accept it, will you then acknowlege it is a scam? She said yes.
I cannot remember the entire recipe, but the following is a close approximatiion.
1,200 lbs. of beef steak 23 gallons of mayo coke bottle dirt charcoal flour milk ice cream gizzards sausage 100 lbs of Hershey's milk chocolate.
Take the Coke bottle and beat the beef for 3 years. Take what is left and put in a paper bag. add the remaining ingredients. Tape the bag shut and bury in your backyard for ten years. Remove and bake in a 12,000 degree oven for 85 years. Do NOT overcook! Serve on roller skates.
WW just giggled because she knew I had gone too far. Nobody in their right mind would publish that recipe. Well, two weeks later, WW got the wonderful letter complimenting her recipe and that, surprise, her recipe had been selected to be published in the next book. And all she had to do to get the recipe published was to rush a check for $39.95 to the below address.
The girls are fine right now and I am very happy not dealing with the disnonesty
I would remove everything after and...
Quote
I doubt you have put much thought into the marriage.
I think it's a DJ for you to make a judgement of what she is thinking...
I would put something in there to give her a spark of hope that if she decides to come back and remain married that you will be supportive of that...otherwise she may be thinking that it is not worth her time and effort to be away from the girls that long only for you to toss her to the curb. I only know that from personal experience <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
You may want to include how much fun and challenging it has been being able to spend quality time with the girls but also let her know that she is missed at least by them...if you miss anything about G you might want to toss that in...and don't say something like I miss your xxx but sure don't miss the lies.
JMHO, which considering my sitch may not be worth much to you. From one stormtrooper to another...hang in there you were given a second chance to right a big LB/DJ with this one
I really think I have been way too supportive of gemela this past year. She really needs to wake up and understand the consequences of her actions. I think me continually throwing her lifelines has seriously hindered our chance at recovery. I think if you have a child that is a drug addict and you tell that child to kick the habit but, hey, if you don't kick it, you can always come back home and I will take care of you, well, that's not much of an incentive. Bottom line is that gemela has never been given any "else" in the "or ELSE".
If my actions are responsible for ending my mariage, then that is my fate. I just want to end this one way or the other. Limboland is not a great place to live.
Ok, if that is how you feel...I know how sick of limbo I am and you have gone double my time. I just think that any extra negatives just make matters worse. If you really feel as you say then just give minimal responses without emotion...you can see your emotion in your posts...she will read between the lines and know that she is still pushing your buttons. If you turn to minimum factual indiferrence...that is a message unto itself.
I can say this but I am not able to do it yet...I went a good stretch of indifference before the accident but got all messed up emotionally which crushed my walls and turned me into an emotional barometer...constant change with no consistency...as you know that has been my biggest challenge as of late.
How are the DDs today? What will you do without ToddAC?
How are the DDs today? What will you do without ToddAC?
Well first of all I don't fully understand where ToddAC went or how long he will be away. When he starts posting song lyrics, I don't read it all. Usually he will send me an email but our exchange server never seems to update on the weekends and I don't like to go into the office on weekends because the security is huge. Basically the company is suspicious of anyone who would want to work on a weekend so they just assume the worst.
To answer your question and at the risk of offending, ToddAC has been my one constant in all this mess. If he goes away for a while, yes that creates a problem for me but I know me and my values and regardless of whatever happens in my life, I go on. I try to do the best I can on any given day. I fail at that a lot but I also learn in the process. Right now I have two DDs who depend on me so I don't have much choice.
DD2 has been telling me all week that she wanted to go back to Disneyworld because there was a man there who made her a strawberry milkshake. Yesterday I got ice cream but did not make her a milkshake because she had a stomach ache. Well last night at some point the plumbing cleared. I still haven't surveyed all the damage but when she changes her clothes on her own, it must be bad. So DD2 is watching Nickelodeon, eating seedless USA grapes and drinking a strawberry milkshake. DD1 hasn't yet seen the light of day.
I tried to get DD1 to finish her card to mommy last night. She asked what to put on it. I suggested "I love you and I miss you". She replied that she didn't really miss mommy all that much. That is both good and bad but I'll take the good part. I think it is good that DD1 is learning that she can get along okay even if she is not glued to mommy's hip. I really don't have a lot to do today. I have a few things to put up, a little more work on the garage, some minor modifications to make on the golf cart. Maybe we'll go to the pool today.
Well my day has suddenly become busier than I expected and the pool may be out. Since I had some time this morning, I decided to exfoliate my feet. Exfoliation sounds complex but when you look at it on a fundamental level, all you are doing is abrading a soft surface with a harder surface. The important factors are the hardness of the abrading surface and the energy applied. I was using a pumice stone I had bought and, while it was working, it was a bit slow.
So I got out my dremel tool with a sanding disk and began to work. This had two problems: 1) it is difficult to twist my feet to all the required angles and 2) the dremel has high speed and low surface area so was both painful and inefficient. So I put a 60 grit sanding drum on the drill press and set up the ladder so I could sit at the required height to get my feet around the drum. Well I got it all going and it was beginning to work well. Maybe three Hp was too much. Anyway, I'll be back after I get out of the emergency room.
The thing I struggle with though is that it should have worked. Where was my calculation error?
I'm still getting over the revolting mental picture of you exfoliating your feet (with a pumice stone OR with a sander) but I am keeping the gag reflex at bay to tell you that your miscalculation was the material of which your feet are made.
Unfortunately I exfoliated more than my feet. I exfoliated an elbow, the palm of one hand, my forehead and the posterior region on one side. The good news is that I won't have to worry about exfoliating my feet for a very long time. The doctor says I need to keep the skin grafts covered for a few months.
Where did ToddAC go anyway?
Oh, forgot to mention, the DDs got into a big fight a few minutes ago. They have been sitting together in a chair since. They are just now starting to get along again. What a great idea that was. Thanks all.
Oh dear. TT told us a funny story by email (us being a little group of Idiots who email each other).
She said she walked into world war 3 going on between her girls because someone had blown into someone else's ear. TT has a 15 yo DD and 11? yo twin DDs. Count yourself lucky.
I am not ignoring anyone. I am just trying to make breakfast for the DDs and get them to eat. Unfortunately I made one huge miscalculation - I asked them what they wanted. I'll never make that mistake again. Well there goes the microwave defrost cycle over. Got to get cooking.
LOL, Pio, I'm SO glad I have wonderful adult children. They do become wonderful adults you know.
I do remember all this. My children only let us down once in public. DS was a very difficult child (VERY difficult) but he always behaved well outside the house.
We were on holiday at a hotel and their meal came before ours. I guess the hotel thought that was the best way to do it. After they'd eaten, they left our table and ran around the dining room. They even went under other people's tables. It was the ONLY time they ever behaved like that (in public) and I still don't know why they did it.
We asked the hotel staff if we could take our meals back to our room. I still remember carrying our plates and knives and forks through the dining room, into the lift (sorry, elevator) and back to our room.
It's Friday evening here. I came home to a note on the kitchen bench from DS and his g/f. It said "We've cooked for everyone tonight. It's in the fridge."
I wasn't sure what we were going to eat tonight. Friday night is traditionally "every man for himself".
I was VERY impressed. It will be a vegan meal but that's ok. He and g/f cook VERY good vegan meals. I had a peek and it looks like it's going to be vegan lasagne.
Well DD2 and I had a communication breakdown. She said she wanted toast with the egg in it. I asked if she wanted Frog (French) toast. She said no - she wanted the bread with the egg in it. I made her lighthouse eggs. Apparently that wasn't what she wanted. So now she is crying and refuses to eat while DD1 is demanding minute steak. Minute steak is misnamed BTW. Anyhow, I thaw out two minute steaks - one for DD1 and one for me because she says she only wants one piece. I put her minute steak in fromt of her and she says "is this all there is?" so now I have to rethink my breakfast. DD1 sure enough sucks down her minute steak and noe DD2 says she wants steak. They split the second piece and I ate lighthouse eggs which, by now, have been condimented with peanut butter, strawberry yoghurt and Oreos. Oh well.
I hardly ever eat what I think I am going to eat any more. I always get leftovers and the DDs get mine. This is okay but I just need to remember to make them healthier things to reject.
I am glad to hear that Myrta and Stan-ley are doing great. That is some good news. On a personal note, I have always been somewhat the pariah of MB but lately I feel even more pariah-er (or is that pariahish?). A while back someone told me to totally let go. That is what I have been trying to do. I think I am mostly there. I don't have a crystal ball to see what is going to happen. But it doesn't matter ehat happens either and I don't mean that in an apathetic way. I either need a new marriage with gemela or no marriage with gemela. Our previous marriage no longer exists in my mind. Anyway, that's my moment of self-reflection gone. Now I am off to drill holes in my bathroom mirror. I should be able to increase the useful volume of the medicine cabinet by 23.846% if my calculations are correct.
A perfect plan extremely well executed and now I can use the bottom shelf of my medicine cabinet. Our medicine cabinets have a sliding bar inside that should be on the top and out of the way. Unfortunately when they installed them, they just turned them any which direction that was convenient at the time leaving most of the bars on the bottom. As such, you cn't put anything there because the bar knocks it off or jams it up whenever you close the door. So:
1) Dremel with cutoff wheel to cut off the backs of the rivots holding the post bracket to the mirror back. 2) carefully pry off bracket. 3) measure three times the correct location of the bracket on the top of the door 4) set the drill stop for 1/2 mm and drill two 4.5mm holes in the miror back being very careful to not go to deep and break the mirrot. 5) tap the holes with a 5mm x 0.8 thread to match the bolts I would use. 6) cut off the bolts to 1mm and chase the threads 7) drill out the bracket holes to 5.5mm to allow the bolts to pass 8) using 1/8" ratchet and socket, install the bolts through the bracket in the upper part of the door.
Most importantly, I got to use power tools as well as my metric tap and die set. Can it get any better than this? I think not.
OK, even before the morning pleasantries I have to address Pio's exfoliating. I agree whole heartedly with kiwi - EW! You know, Pio, that real men get their exfoliating done in a spa don't you?
Actually I never bothered with my feet until right before I left the USA a couple of weeks ago. I went into Walmart and sat in the bubble chair. The woman looked at my feet and said OMG! I felt strange in that chair amongst all those women. They kept asking me for decorating ideas. EWWW!
I'm trying something new this morning to see if I can extend the useful hours in the day.
First, get up at 4:30 after taking half an hour for reading. Get up, exercise, check email. Make lunches. Get OS off to school. Wake up other two boys, monotor their arguments. Try to keep my tounge when YS puts on two sets of clothes to "make it easier" when he has gym. Keep middle son from ripping YS a new one because he thinks this is a stupid idea. Middle son LOVES to argue with YS in the morning, I think it's part of his wake up routine.
Repeat one million times "Do you have your shoes on & teeth brushed?" Repeat 500,000 time "Are your backpacks ready to go with homework & lunches?" Repeat 2 million times "You need to hurry up!"
We are almost out the door. I've had time to catch up on this thread, ever so important, get the boys off to school, & exercise. I think the key is getting out of bed at 4:30.
I had to move my alarm up to 3:30 to get in the exercise. Other than that, I like your plan. I replaced the VHS in the garage with a DVD/VHS. I tried it this AM and I really like the difference.
I took the DDs out for lunch just to do something different. They wanted to make cookies so I had to go to the store to buy butter. Butter is not something we normally keep in the house and for some reason it just bothers me to use half a tub of margarine in one go. Now we have four sticks of Danish butter which, naturally, is metric butter so there is no way to convert it to English units without the scale. Didn't Jimmy Carter promise to convert us all over to the metric system? Yet another of his failures as president.
To tell the honset truth, Fridays I always (okay I've only had three so far without WW) get a little depressed. Okay - really depressed. It is not that I miss gemela. I'm not thinking "gee I wish she were here". I don't know what it is. I guess it is just the only day of the week I have any free time. I'm really sad. Worst part is I can't be sad in front of the DDs and by nighttime, it goes away so I am stuck with not being able to be sad like I want all afternoon. I don't like Fridays very much.
For me, Fridays used to be full of promise. Starting in childhood I would get excitied on Fridays thinking about the endless possibilities of what I could do with my free time. Now, I still look forward to them but I do wish for someone to spend my free time with.
Keep in mind that my Friday is the equivalent of your Sunday. Tomorrow is the first day of the work week.
For me to get any real benefit of being in SA, I need to be here a minimum of 3 more years and 8 years more would see a huge increase in benefits. If I stay here even longer, my DDs will be able to go to practically any boarding school in the world at essentially zero cost. Our schools here only go through 9th grade. So, at that time, we will make the choice whether DD1 goes to boarding school or we leave and put her in a school back in the USA. I have a long time before I have to make that decision. Boarding school sounds odd to me but can you imagine the benefits to a young girl entering college? At the end of the day it will be her decision.
For me, I have a job with very low stress, excellent work hours, endless opportunities for the DDs, well above average schools (all teachers have masters as a minimum and many have PhDs), a world class golf course, a retirement package I couldn't match anywhere else, and zero opportunity for a female relationship should I divorce. So, looking at the bright side, I'll never be cheated on by another woman besides gemela.
Well a local girls would end me up in a Saudi prison (or worse) and getting involved with an expat would mean adultery. So my options are basically celebacy.
I can't imagine celebacy would be an appealing life choice if you were to D g.
Might want to consider some ways in which you would be able to find another partner should it come to that.
When I thought I lived in a secure marriage I "knew" I'd never want to be involved in another relationship, until my kids grew up & were out on their own, should I end up a widow. Never considering I'd be D. Never say never.
I want a partner but certainly a better model than the last.
Maybe this is all so new it's hard to think beyond the lifting of the pain you've felt for the past year. It won't always be so one way or the other.
Gotta go. No substituting again today so to the pottery studio I go!
I'll be back later. Take care Pio. BTW getting up at 3:30 to exercise? Fagetaboutit.
Well if G and I D, I guess it will be two years before I think about another relationship. I am really pretty screwed up right now. I wouldn't want to carry that into another relationship - should it come to that. Besides, I still have the HPV to consider. To paraphrase Truman, "the bug stops here".
Thank you Piojitos..for your good wishes again. Indeed we are doing really well. It has been very good lately.
Dont consider yourself a pariah of MB, because you are not. There are many marriages that come to MB and still dont make it, whether they do all plans available and talk to the Harleys. I think you KNEW from the start that yours will not make it. Am I wrong?
Anyways, I am sure you will do great finding a suitable mate,after you get divorced and start dating again. Just concentrate in making your daughters happy for now. They should be your main concern, nothing else. Let Gemela think about the big mistake she has done with you, not working for you and the marriage. Because you are a keeper!@!
Pio, do you think you're a pariah because your plan A didn't work? Well, lump me into that same group.
You don't have control over the outcome of a plan A only its implimentation & the thoroughness with which you follow it. Gemela made her own poor choices. Some people will screw up all the opportunities they been presented not even recognizing that they are opportunities. You can't control this.
I'm sorry you're dealing with HPV. Am I correct in the assumption this was a result of g's A? I don't know if this helps but I have a friend with herpes. She has had a few relationships & is in a long term relationship that involves sex. Herpes is not a problem for her partner. I dated a man casually for about 6 months who had herpes. He was not someone I could see having a long term relationship with so we are friends now. But, if he were someone I felt could have been a partner the herpes would not have stopped me.
Gemela denies that the HPV is a result of the A. All I know is that I never had any symptoms for 9 years. She has an A and since I have had two outbreaks. This second outbreak has lasted since January - not kidding.
My suspicion is that OM did not have HPV during the A but got it when he went to the UK fr his vacation. When he came back, I believe that is when he spread the good will. I realize HPV can lie dormant for extended periods but it is hard to believe that I didn't get it as a result of the A.
We did not have SF for weeks after I found out about the A and I was aorried about STD's. Maybe I was paranoid but very soon after we had SF that first time, I had a strange feeling down below. It was a sort of tingling that just wasn't quite right. I kept telling myself it was paranoia. A couple of weeks later, the sores broke out. This time I have them on my legs. I had one that was big, red and really painful. I bought a leg brace to try to keep it from rubbing against other things. I think it popped because it is all dried up now. I still have more that aren't so big. My "weewee" [I think that is the technical term Mel Brooks used in the movie High Anxiety] feels like it has a fresh mosquite bite 24/7. It is very difficult to sleep because it itches. I look like a professional baseball player because I can't stop scratching. It is hugely embarrassing. Can I be more graphic? Are you eating dinner?
To answer Myrta's question, no I never really believed that our M might be over until I found the love letters and photos. That moment changed everything for me. Prior to that, I really did believe it would somehow work out.
One of the things that pissed me off the most was that ex never admitted to an affair. I could have dealt with anything just as long as we were open & honest with each other. Never happened. I just made up my mind to believe he had an affair. It helped me to move forward. I guess you can make up your mind to believe gemela gave you HPV.
The dishonesty leaves one in an uncertain position & makes it difficult to find closure since there are uncertainties. In my case I don't know with 100% certainty ex had an affair. He denied & I was unable to confirm. Do I have an STD as a result of his affair? I don't know.
It's been more than 3 years since I was intimate with ex. & there's been no one since. I'll get myself tested at my next Dr. appointment in about a month. I don't know why I've waited really. No symtoms of anything I suppose, & maybe in part because I don't know for sure he was with someone else.
Nams?...if so, exactly at what time would you need to go to sleep?
Quote
I guess it is just the only day of the week I have any free time.
Pio....how about fitting in some 'adult' company and spend some time with friends? ...or expect your vocabulary to drop...
On my end, I have this big house....it's a rainy weekend....so, can't get ahead with my outdoor painting maintenance job.... I may just mustar up enough energy to gather a few friends over for supper....and share this big house...I was thinking of a 'society game' night.....because it would be a mixed bag of friends.....and this could help break the 'ice'....
...this is just in the 'planning stages'....trying to visualize myself doing it...will see if I go through with it.....it's what I WOULD like to do.... haven't 'hosted' since WS left.... it would be another step up the mountain for me......
yeah....Pio...'celibacy' is the WORD..... for me, it would be 'trust' issue that I would need to work out first..... and not a lack of candidates.... have been known to turn heads....and have just been recently confirmed....that I still do!
Quote
Can I be more graphic?
No....you have made it quite clear what ONE of your issues would be
Anyway...off to pick up my DS10 at school.....
Pio.....another question that 'flew' into cyberspace..... how come your weekends are in the middle of the week?...is this a religious thing in SA, or what?
Getting up at 4:30 was not by choice & I avoid getting out of bed at that time like the plague normally. Just couldn't sleep.
I'm getting closer to my decision about school & now that I may actually have to commit to it I'm getting nervous.
Last night was back to school night for my two youngest. Last year on the same night I'd spoken to the art teacher there about going back to school to become an art teacher. When I saw her this year she asked me what I'd decided & we talked about what I thought my choices are. She was very supportive of the art teacher idea & pointed out some issues with the elementary ed. which her daughter has recently graduated in.
So, I'm leaning very heavily in the direction of art ed. The commitment makes nervous & being a poor sleeper to begin with having something on my mind throws me for a loop.
On a positive note I'm making plans with a man for Sunday afternoon. I'm more excited about this man than the last. I'll keep you posted.
I'm getting closer to my decision about school & now that I may actually have to commit to it I'm getting nervous.
....and the point is?..... because it would be a problem if you WEREN'T!
Quote
So, I'm leaning very heavily in the direction of art ed.
....I suspect my post to you on this subject may have been lost to cyberspace..... but my 'bottom line'....was that, if you could swing it, I support your doing more than just 'leaning'......GO FOR IT!
Quote
On a positive note I'm making plans with a man for Sunday afternoon. I'm more excited about this man than the last. I'll keep you posted.
...and this would be the man you have 'up your sleeve' I suppose?
Quote
Hey - I'm with Pio. Real men don't visit Spa's!!
Hi BigK..... real men would also not be 'threatened' by the mere SUGGESTION of going to a SPA's......LOL
Tell me, BigK...are you speaking from experience? LOLROF!
Hi Nams....No, I dont live in Spain. I live in Washington,DC area <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Although my dad is from Puerto Rico and my mom is from Spain; I was raised in Puerto Rico. Have visited Spain, and absolutely love it too. I cannot wait to go there again(probably next year). HOw come you live there all those years? Work related?
Friday is the Muslim "sabbath" day amd Thursday has been the traditional day of rest for the weekend. AFAIK, all Middle Eastern countries orient their weekend around Friday. More recently, some countries have tried to align themselves more with the West and have made Friday and Saturday the weekend. Having lived her working for US companies in the past, the shift in weekends coupled with the time zone change only gives you about 3 working days to deal with the home office. Moving Thusrday to Saturday adds a useful day of communication.
Our calendar is based on the lunar month and we have about 15 (+/-) fewer days a year than you do. I think it is currently something like the year 1427 here (but don't quote me) but we are catching up. I did an estimate one time to see when the Gregorian and Hijrah calendars would coincide. I decided I probably wouldn't be alive by then so gave up interest.
Myrta,
I've never been to Spain... but I kinda like the people.
Okay as usual I got it wrong. It wasn't weewee. Here is teh Q&A portion of Dr. Thorndyke's speech at the psychiatric convention AFTER a doctor shows up with his small children:
THORNDYKE: And so, in conclusion...
...let me reiterate...
...that there are no rules.
That each patient is a supreme individualendowed with those qualities...
...that distinguish the human being...
...from the slime from which he emerged.
Thank you.
THORNDYKE: Yes, Dr. Colburn.
COLBURN: May I ask you a question?THORNDYKE: Certainly.
Dr. Thorndyke, you mentionedin your address that penis envy...
...should be deemed an antiquated psychiatric concept.
Could you expand on that?
THORNDYKE: Of course.
Let's rememberthat the term "penis envy"...
...was created in a predominantlymale atmosphere...
MAN: Excuse me.
Sorry I'm late.
Forgive me for bringing the kids.I couldn't get a sitter.
THORNDYKE: Please, have a seat.
As I was saying, in a world ofpredominantly male-oriented psychology...
...it was only naturalto arrive at the term, pee...
Pee...
"Peepee envy. "
Are you saying there's absolutelyno validity to...
...peepee envy?
It has no more validitythan if a man envied a woman's...
...balloons.
Dr. Thorndyke, do you feelthat the trauma of toilet training...
...has a bearing on the sexual futureof the adolescent?
Toilet training. That's a vast area.
Let's be more specific.Are we talking about...
...number one or cocky-doody?
For argument's sake, let's say cocky-doody.
THORNDYKE:I'd say professionally, cocky-doody...
...has very little to do with the futuresexual development of the adolescent.
-Thank you.-You're welcome.
Let me backtrack for a second.The female erogenous zone.
-You mean the balloons?-No. Lower, much lower.
Where the babies come out. The woowoo.
The woowoo?
THORNDYKE: Yes. The woowoo.
Perhaps the most significantpsychological feminine component...
Myrta, the family, ex, me & our three boys, lived in Spain about 4 years ago. We lived there for almost a year. ex's job brought him there. It was to be a two to three month job that turned into more.
It's a beautiful country with great people. I like that it's not huge. Because we lived in Madrid, which is in the center of the country, we could take weekend trips just about anywhere in Spain. The food was to die for.
Luna, the man up my sleeve. I know that sounds disrepectful & I don't mean it that way. I only say it that way because the people you "meet" online are like smoke & until I meet him he's not "real" & therefore a man to be keep up my sleeve. When my friend uses that phrase she means it more in the sense of a man on the back burner which I think is closer to what the actual expression means.
Kiwi & Luna, I don't think I'll regret art ed. I think I'm just nervous now that I'll have to do it rather than just think about it. Plus all the usual concerns; will I be able to finda job, about ability; do I know enough about art history, about printing, photography etc. I'm a potter & I draw, the other stuff I left behind a long time ago in college. The questions of can I? are creeping in. I am confident person & I do know I can do this it's just...
BigK, if we didn't call it a spa would it have more appeal? Man's Massage Den? Working Man's Foot Care Center? Manly Men Facial Shop?
If there were tools on the sign I'll bet Pio & Todd would want to go.
Getting on my liberal feminist high horse here. Did you know that most euphamisms for male genitalia are of the whoopdy do aren't I manly type while most euphamisms for female genitalia are derogatory? Did you also know that it is because men have an innate fear of women?
LOL, we have a lecturer in our Department that lectures in feminist politics. I think it may have rubbed off on me. I picked up a textbook of hers the other day which argued that gender is not defined by chromosomes etc but is "shaped" by parenting. Tried hard not to guffaw as it was a "serious" book but I kept wanting to throw it across the room.
I you threw it across the room I wonder if you would have hit her in her woowoo.
Because I was out of bed at 4 I think it's time for me to go to bed & read for 30 seconds then fall asleep.
Here's an example of the trickle down effect as it applies to the price of oil.
I teach pottery at my local community center & for my town's adult ed. I had one person sign up for each class. A friend teaches oil painting & pastels & for the three classes she offers she had two people sign up.
The good news is that I get to sleep in on Sat. now that I won't have that class to worry about. Plus, I'll have more time for my own work. Will people spend the money on gas to come to the gallery to buy it?
I was working out in the garage. At some point durint a rep, I cut my hand open on my brand new Haier stainless steel minifridge. All I can think about was "where was my error?".
Piojitos...I kinda like the people from there too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />.
SO you really think Tear,REgretted,etc, are the same person? Thats freaking weird.! Why would she do that for? She must be suffering from Multiple personalities, like Sybill!
Good Evening All or if my moon is out then Pio's sun is out so ...Good Afternoon
Nams and Kiwi...great dialogue re: anatomical parts...must admit I've used a few...started out all technical since I'm medical and taught the kids all the right terms but then somehow slipped into the whooopdy lingo...with the girls we use the abbreviated technical version also used as a girls name...gina! There are more terms than germs!
Pio, Don't fret over the HPV which by your description sounds much more like HSV...if you D G and do find a mate and fall in love, if it is truly love it won't even be an issue...the rate of these is so high that you actually have a better chance of hooking up with someone who has something than someone totally without. sad but true
Gotta get to work on some major projects...check in later
Yes tear/regreted/other name has (have?) admitted to being the same person. She (they) is (are) afraid that BH will find her posts here which is why she dances around deleting posts, changing names, rewriting history.
Have you ever heard of Three Dog Night?
Actually I have never met a Spaniard I didn't like. I do have to confess though that when I was first learning Spanish and ran across my first Spaniard, I thought he was gay. Absolutely true story. I had just never heard "Z" as "theta" before. It is still hard to listen to for me. Don't automatically think they are gay any more though.
I love Three Dog NIght!! They were Stanley's and mine one of many favorite bands from the late 60s. You like them?
Thats really messed up that Tear made all those different stories up. I mean, whats up with her? What the heck is she gaining by doing that?
Some spaniards appear to be gay but they are not. Its just their demeanor, is different than american people. Antonio Banderas, although he is handsome,sexy, used to have that same demeanor in his spanish movies. Now he is more macho.
I have a question: Do you think if I continue to DJ that I will D G? I think it could happen.
BTW, my heart goes out to bigger and bigK who didn't make the finals of Rockstar: Supernova.
Yes I like Three Dog Night and right now I think that one is the loneliest feeling that I will ever know. However, if G does decide to come back but nothing changes, then I suspect that two could be as sad as one.
LOL...One is the loneliest numbers that you ever knew. Two can be as bad as one indeed!!
Well, Pio...I think that you will have to see big changes in Gemela when she comes back. If she has not really analize the situation of what her affair...then things will continue the same. But you really dont want her to come back , so maybe you already have your answer there. I think she has made too many withdrawals in your love bank. You are empty of Gemela..she will need to make a largeeeee deposit, for you to maybe consider her again. But you, by taking care of your daughters continue to deposit in her bank. Maybe just maybe, she is a different woman when she comes back.
I have not given up. I am on haitus. My POV is that G can come back, we can have a M, we can have a happy family but right now that entire responsibility rests with G. I am happyish. I don't get eaten by thoughts of what she is up to while I am at work. She could be pulling a train in Mexico and I don't care. She has already betrayed me. What is a bit more? Her actions are her choices. I can only think about what is acceptable within the context of my family and how I raise my DDs.
I just don't think that G has come anywhere near hitting bottom and she never would have as long as I kept providing the safety net. Only once she hits bottom can she pick herself up and decide how she will move forward.
I do still care for her. She has been my life for 9 years. I don't still love her because she has become nothing that I can love. Could I love her again? Yes. Siempre y cuando she begins to build up her deposits in my love bank. Right now she is running a deficit and I am about ready to call in the loan.
BTW, I really do appreciate your posting. I like your honesty and you have a different way of looking at things that is very refreshing.
nams,
I can see you are remiss in at least two areas:
1) what IS your opinion about Ira... (I mean Western Pakistan)...'s nuclear ambitions and 2) how DOES the nantucket poem go?
Well Piojitos...many FWWs here dont really hit bottom, but they-we realize what we did and we try to make amends for it. But some FWW do need to hit bottom to realize that. Maybe Gemela is in the later bunch. Only she knows whats going on in her mind . She cannot fool herself or can she?
Of course you will care if she is doing something like that again. It will matter a lot, if she deceits you again. I dont think she is that stupid though. She has to know that what she did is completely unacceptable.
What is she doing in Mexico all that time? How does she spend her days? Helping her parents? going out with friends?
I tell you, recovery is really really hard. If there is only one participant is twice as hard!! Gemela really has to put herself in gear, if she wants you,the girls, the marriage, all at once. Otherwise is a lost battle.
I don't know what G does in Mexico. Since she is staying with SIL, SIL's OM and MIL, I expect she gets up late, piddles around helping MIL in the kitchen. Maybe does a little cleaning, spends days chatting away, nights drinking beer and not much else.
I doubt she is seeing anyone in front of MIL. OTOH, maybe OM did go to Mexico and they are shacked up together some place. I doubt that because OM could not survive in Mexico. I just don't think he has what it takes.
Oops small crisis. I just got a call from DD2. She was bawling and I could not understand what she was saying. I finally got her calmed down and understand that DD1 told her she had a boyfriend and DD2 says she doesn't have one. I told DD2 that DD1 was just pushing her buttons and that she did NOT have a boyfriend. That seems to have calmed her down.
KiwiJ,
I saw you standing up for me on regreted's latest thread. That is twice now. I think you are setting a bad precedent! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My DDs still ask me why I have a "colita" (tail) and they don't. They are fascinated that I can stand up to pee - so much so that they try to emulate the behavior - never with the best results.
LOL, I thought that myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I thought hmmmm, he's a big boy he can probably stand up for himself. I just got so MAD.
Kiwi , how is Australia taking the death of Steve Irwin? My daughters were big fans of him. They are still very sad with his horrible death. It was untimely, he was still so young and full of life and energy and goodness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Myrta, I'm not from Australia. Very close to Australia geographically, but New Zealand and Australia are different countries. It's like saying Puerto Rico and the US are the same country. BigKahuna is Australian and could tell you more.
Steve Irwin has had a private family funeral which is the way he and his family would have wanted it.
I'm pleased you and Stanley are on the upward path again. I like both of you very much. Like Pio says, you are honest - both of you are honest - and it IS refreshing.
OH MY GOSH. Kiwi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I am sorry, I thought you were from Australia. I know those are two separate countries, duh!! LOL
Here in the united States was a big shock to learn about his death. HOrrible!
Yeah, Stanley and I, are cool now. I think this is it! cross my fingers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. But things are really different now. We are really at ease,relaxed. And he told me that finally, he does not thik about the A . Is not in his mind when he wakes up. So, I am so glad, is really getting behind us now.
Kiwi, we both like you too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Myrta, don't worry about it. LOL, that's what I said to you after your first post to me. Sorry, I know you don't like to be reminded about that. It's funny now.
That is GREAT that Stanley doesn't think about it now. I'm sure he'd tell you if he really did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Don't let KiwiJ fool you. NZ is a suburb of Australia. NZ is where people go to get passports so they can easily immigrate to Australia. Just look at their flags. Australia only has one more star than NZ. That just means that, in Australia, you get a full breakfast, slippers by your bed and a bathrobe in the closet. In NZ, you have to pack your own and only get a continental breakfast.
Personally I prefer fewer stars. I never liked paying more money for services that I really don't need. Some of the best places I ever stayed in Europe were two star hotels. Clean sheets, clean towels, bed and private shower - what more do you need? Of course, having never been to NZ, I don't know if the sheets are clean or not.
Our sheets are the cleanest in the world. Our country is the cleanest in the world. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
DD said in one of her phone calls home that they have been told to watch out for BED BUGS. She said, eewwwww, bed bugs, I've never been NEAR a bed bug.
Well since ToddAC is not here to provide insightful song lyrics, I'm going to throw out the song I can't get out of my head:
Well let me tell ya a story bout a man named Jedd Poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed Then one day he was shootin at some food And up thru the ground came a bubblin crude
Oil that is … black gold…Texas tea
Well the first thing ya know ole Jedd's a millionaire Kin folks said "Jedd move away from there" Said Californie is the place ya oughtta be So they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly
Hills that is…swimmin pools…movie stars
I don't really know what I have. I am sure the doctor told me I had HPV. I don't know the difference between HPV and HSV. I'm just glad I don't have HIV. I can't do a lot of internet research on HSV, HPV or any STD because all of our requests go through a proxy server.
Now here is the paradox. STD's run rampant here. I could explain why but prefer not to. But the logic is this: everyone is a loyal follower of God and as a loyal follower of God, they cannot disobey his commandments. Since they do not disobey his commandments, they cannot possibly get STD's because, to get STD's means they are not loyal followers of God. It is a vicious circle all based on a false premise. The end result is that the people who probably need to know the most about it are the ones denied access.
Or here goes an even better song:
Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip, that started from this tropic port, aboard this tiny ship. The mate was a mighty sailin' man, the Skipper brave and sure. Five passengers set sail that day for a three hour tour. A three hour tour.
The weather started getting rough, the tiny ship was tossed. If not for the courage of the fearless crew, the Minnow would be lost. The Minnow would be lost. The ship set ground on the shore of this uncharted desert isle, With Gilligan, the skipper too, the millionaire and his wife, the movie star, the professor and Mary Ann here on Gilligan's Isle.
Now this is the tale of the castways, they're here for a long, long time, they'll have to make the best of things, it's an uphill climb. The first mate and the Skipper too, will do their very best, to make the others comfortable, in the tropic island nest. No phone, no lights no motor cars, not a single luxury, like Robinson Crusoe, as primative as can be. So join us here each week my freinds, you're sure to get a smile, from seven stranded castways, here on "Gilligan's Isle."
KiwiJ,
I didn't make your flag. If you want more stars, call Michelin.
Well I personally wouldn't want NZ. I mean they can't even get along with each other. Had to dig a trench down the middle just to keep from killing each other.
Besides, they are so strict. Even million dollar babies can't carry an apple into their country.
Real men don't take bathes or showers either. That's what rain is for! [ Gee I wish it rained more here in Saudi ]
Oh, and I just want to say FOR the record that I never thought much of Ginger. Mary Anne, on the other hand - WOW!
I was watching the movie Castaway with Tom Hanks. I am thinking of going on the all coconut diet. It did wonders for him. I can see some serious advantages to that Island he was on. There would be no flies or mosquitoes - two things I detest. Since there was no food source prior to his arrival, those insects could not have survived. I am somewhat troubled by the dynamics of a small island where the tide comes in on all sides at the same time.
And before I forget, the foot exfoliation incident has had a huge impact on my life and all quite by accident. Probably my least favorite activity in all the world is putting on socks. I dread putting on socks. But since the bubble spa treatment, I have been putting cream on my feet and now the socks just slide right on. While this is a good thing, now I am struggling to look for my new least favorite thing to do since it is no longer putting on socks.
Ladies...I join the mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Antonio Banderas yummy club, although I have to say that ahead of him are Al Pacicno and Andy Garcia on my list of hot men.
Pio, I think you are truly happy with DDs but this is only a part of your life...you are still in a quandry about G since now the ball is totally in her court and you have no control over her actions. You have detached as much as you can but sounds like the only way you will be able to protect your emotions completely would be to D and detach completely. I don't believe from what you've posted that is what you want, although there are times (same with me) that you convince yourself it is what you want and would be the best for the DDs. You know cognitively that it takes great work and time for recovery...you've counseled me on that but living through the long stretches between progress or no progress are the killers. Some days I feel like I am just existing and others miserable and yet I do still have days where I am genuinely ok as long as I don't let my mind wander.
I laid in bed thinking of your sitch and trying to put myself in G's shoes in the global sitch of your M. I could never move to another country away from family...I grew up in a close but dysfunctional family. I moved away as soon as I could to protect myself and stayed at a great distance (800+ miles) for the past 15 years. My kids barely knew their grandparents. I just recently (past 2 yr) decided life is too short and moved back to a comfortable travel distance (250 mi) from parents so that my kids could spend more time and get to know them and enjoy them.
I know you say G's family is dysfunctional but that doesn't mean she loves them, depends on them or is psychologically bound to them any less...usually it is more. Don't you think that maybe the geographic location may be playing more into this than you give credit or am I way off? What about your family and being near them? I understand that from your description things sound very comfortable with your job/home in SA but what about the culture as far as raising the girls? No disrespect intended, just wondering.
As far as your feet go...one word...YUCK...I don't believe a word you say...
I was also thinking of this saying last night when thinking of my own sitch...ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies...very applicable at the moment
HPV=human papilloma virus There are more than 100 types of HPV. Most of them are relatively harmless, like the ones that cause common warts found on hands and feet. For most people, the body’s own defense system will clear the virus. About 30 types of HPV affect the genital area:
“High-risk” types (such as HPV Types 16 and 18) can cause cervical cancer or abnormal cells in the lining of the cervix that sometimes turn into cancer.
“Low-risk” types (such as HPV Types 6 and 11) can cause genital warts and benign (abnormal, but noncancerous) changes in the cervix.
All types of genital HPV can cause abnormal Pap tests. And a person can have more than one type of HPV. Women and men who have any kind of sexual activity involving genital contact with someone with HPV can get it. That means it's possible to get genital HPV without having intercourse. And, because many people who have the virus may not show any signs or symptoms, they can transmit the virus without even knowing it.
HPV is easily transmitted, so any exposure puts you at risk. In fact, it is estimated that many people get HPV within their first 2 to 3 years of becoming sexually active.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the only way to prevent genital HPV is to avoid any sexual activity that involves genital contact. You can help decrease your chances of getting genital HPV by:
Limiting your sexual partners
Staying in a long-term, exclusive relationship with someone who doesn’t have HPV
Using a condom—though it’s unknown how much protection from HPV condoms actually provide
HSV=herpes simplex virus There are two different types of herpes virus, which are called HSV-1 and HSV-2. Most forms of genital herpes are HSV-2, however, a person with HSV-1 can transmit the virus through oral sex to another person's genitals.
HSV-1 causes the cold sores or fever blisters that appear on or around the mouth, lips, or nose of many people. Most people have a cold sore at one time or another. It can be transmitted (passed from person to person) by sharing eating utensils or from kissing someone with a cold sore.
The other type of herpes, HSV-2, is a sexually transmitted disease. It causes herpes sores in the genital area, and it is transmitted through intimate sexual contact (vaginal, oral, or anal sex), especially from unprotected sex. Because the virus does not live outside the body for long, you cannot catch genital herpes from an object, such as a toilet seat.
An individual who has been exposed to the genital herpes virus may not be aware of the infection and may never have an outbreak of sores. However, if a person does have an outbreak, the symptoms can cause significant discomfort. A person would first notice itching or pain, followed by sores that appear a few hours to a few days later. The sores, which may appear on the vagina, buttocks, anus, scrotum, or penis, start out as red bumps that soon turn into red, watery blisters. The sores may make it very painful to urinate. The sores then open up, ooze fluid or bleed, and then heal within the next 2 to 4 weeks. The entire genital area may feel very tender or painful, and the individual may have flu-like symptoms including fever and swollen lymph nodes. If a person has an outbreak in the future, the outbreaks will tend to be less severe and shorter in duration, with the sores healing in 3 to 4 days.
A person who has been exposed to genital herpes will notice genital itching and/or pain about 2 to 20 days later. The sores usually appear within days afterward.
What Can Happen? After the herpes blisters disappear, a person may think the virus has gone away - but it's actually hiding in the body. Both HSV-1 and HSV-2 have the ability to stay hidden away in the body until the next herpes outbreak, when the virus reactivates itself and the painful sores return.
Over time, the herpes virus can reactivate itself again and again, causing discomfort and episodes of sores each time. Usually a person has about four to five herpes outbreaks each year - but in some people, the number of outbreaks will lessen over time. There is no cure for herpes; it will always remain in the body and can always be passed to another person with any form of unprotected sex. This is the case even if blisters aren't present on the genitals. Most cases of genital herpes are transmitted when symptoms are not present.
I laid in bed thinking of your sitch and trying to put myself in G's shoes
Which of the 130 pairs were you trying to imagine yourself in?
Quote
but what about the culture as far as raising the girls
Try to imagine the USA (Southern USA) about 40 years ago. Most people who visit here think they are in West Texas except that the water doesn't smell bad.
Quote
All types of genital HPV can cause abnormal Pap tests.
I will remind the doctor on my next pap smear.
Quote
Staying in a long-term, exclusive relationship with someone who doesn’t have HPV
I only control half of that equation.
Seriously, thanks for the info.
Regarding your first paragraph, (well okay the second one because I don't count the one about Antonio Banderas), I think you pretty much have me pegged.
Seriously I am depressed and have been ever since G told DD1 she was coming home in two weeks. I was fine until then. Now I can't get it out of my head.
Quote
As far as your feet go...one word...YUCK
That's exactly what the Vietnamese lady at Walmart said.
Do you think that maybe G misses you. Yep, not the comforts of home or the pampering or even the DDs but just you? You've been together 9 years...gotta be some common thread left...try making a list of why you fell in luv with G
Next a list of what characteristics now made you fall out of luv with G...only list characteristics not the events,
Finally make a list of what is left and when/if she comes back start with those and try to build on those.
Tell her what you need besides the no A's and no lies...we all know that you are self-sufficient and could survive on your own...you've told G that (I've done the same)...
The WS needs to feel like they are needed, loved, admired, longed for...they need that excitement and adventure that started it all. It's hard to get from those to points when you are where we are but according to all the books and seasoned MBers here it can be done.
I think you have to want it so badly that you are willing to seriously start with a clean slate and squash your bitterness and resentment down the drain. Can't keep referring to the past...don't pretend it doesn't exist but in the beginning I think it serves you better to just try and create good feelings, fun memories, spontaniety and excitement to develop that want to be together, the strength to bite back the acid remarks etc.
Sometimes I really feel like ignorance is bliss...and then I wake up:)
2much, thank you for the STD run down. I'm glad I wasn't eating. Between the ozing sores & the image of Pio's non-exfoliated feet, well...
Pio, my evasive! No! It's called political correctness, politness, ladylike behaviour, take your pick.
Funny thing about the poem that starts "There was a man from Nantucket..." I've heard several versions usually during baudy nights out. Whether there really is a poem or it's one of those you toss out a line to then others finish, I don't know.
One evening I went to a restaurant with a friend. We sat at the bar due to lack of seats. A man was sitting across from us reading books of poetry; guess he thought it made him look romantic. So my friend striks up a conversation about poetry asking if he knew the Nantucket poem. It was hard not to laugh at the romantic's expression. We were clearly uneducated clods who didn't understand "real" poetry.
I don't disagree but right now I have to see that G wants it before I can muster up much more energy. She has had the power to salvage this M for a very long time. She just hasn't bothered trying.
I am off to 2nd grade parents' night. Tomorrow is night for DD2 and Monday I start soccer coaching 7-8 yr old girls. I can hardly wait.
You're right 2much, you have to start from a clean slate & not bring up the past.
That's what I did with ex during our year of "reconciliation"/"recovery".
This is how I handled the possibility of an affair: I asked, he denied. I told him if we had a chance to recover there couldn't be a third person in our marriage in any way, not physicaly not emotionally. He asked why not emotionally "just out of curiosity". I explained it all in MBese. He was uninterested & didn't believe the principles had merit. I took what I could get & did the best I could given the restrictions.
Because then h did not participate in a meaningfull in our recovery & likely was still involed at least emotionally with OW we did not recover. No surprise.
My point is during that year I truly did feel I wanted do whatever I could to make the marriage work. I let go the anger, fear, heartbreak, suspicion, you name it & really did all I could. Then h even thanked me for all I was doing & how it had changed things.
But, I only changed myself I couldn't change him or his desire for a new life. I look back & I don't regret it, I needed to do it for me & my boys. But, looking back, without a spouse fully on board wanting recovery it's a painfull waste.
Pio, for your own mental health you need firm boundries for g's return. Know for certain (as close to certain as you can get anyway) what has to happen for g to be let back in. Know for sure you really want her back.
I acted out of the desire to keep my family together & with the desire then h & I could have a different, better marriage. He didn't posess the will or the ability to do that & I wish I'd recognised that sooner.
I don't think I have that much anger left over the A. For me, my M is dead. That is a good thing because, if we do have a chance at R, we will be trying to make something new - not salvage something we once had.
As I have said before, all G has to do is say she is going to fight for this M and I am quickly on board. I am not too excited about her attitude when she asks if it would be okay to go visit OM. It makes me think she doesn't quite get it.
I will repeat - the ball is in her court. She can either serve and ace or a double fault. That is all up to her. I know I sound tough and I am. But G has always had an amazing ability to melt me. She knows me pretty well.
I have also said before that I have no regrets for trying so hard this past year. Aside from G, it has all been good.
But MB is so fond of differentiating between W and WW. I do NOT want WW back. I would like someone back who will be a W, RWW, FWW, ExWW, whatever you want to call it. I don't know if G has that within her. Time will tell. I have no expectations one way or the other because all of it is beyond my control - as it should be.
I also agree that I need to stop DJing G so that I don't accidentally D G. She does need to feel that she has an opportunity. Basically I need to maintain NC and would have if she hadn't pulled that stunt of telling DD1 she was coming home.
Did someone wearing a beret just make a drive-by? I never will forget how a friend of mine in London told me you could recognize a Frenchman. He said you could always spot a Frenchman because he had a beret on his head, a fag in his hand and he was taking a (whiz) on the side of the road.
Of course, like the Pope, I am only quoting...
Why is it that Muslims can condemn all Christians to death and we have to let them in the name of freedom of religion but if a Christian says one wrong word about Muslims, well, riots, murders, you name it. Where is the parity?
Have you read: End of Faith by Sam Harris. He would answer differently than me.
Me, I would say it isn't acceptable to hate any group--just to hate actions. Once we get into hating groups humans get weird and do stuff like genocide.
No beret, just a pony tail.
Why do you have such an issue with the french btw?
Back from soccer game...H brought a friend of his, female who he is friends with husband and wife...my DD1 was irate and refused to speak to her or him. Of course he noted her behavior and told me DD1 was evil, I told him DD1 was jealous and it was perfectly normal. I wasn't very comfortable myself since this is one of his female friends that he had so much contact with...she was the only one he supposedly has not cut contact with b/c he insists that he is friends with both H/W and wants to be able to maintain the friendship. He supposedly goes and spends time with the H when the W is working at night. My H was the same way with our neighbors before I met them and it was very uncomfortable and annoying but once they got to know me, surprise, surprise they became more my friends than his...this has always been the trend. So, although it makes me sick to my stomache I am trying to keep my mouth shut and give this thing time and see where it goes.
H and I went out on date earlier in the week and are going out again tonight...things have been much more tolerable and there has been no fighting.
Could b/c I ask no questions, expect nothing and challenge nothing...dunno???
Pio...you are correct about G wanting to get on board with the M...I just wish I knew that my H was on board...I think he is just testing the waters; doing a trial; pushing to see how far the limits will go? I don't know. I do know I'm not going to think about it just for my own mental health.
I am getting DD1 into counseling this week. H quit last week when he said he wanted D, so I am moving ahead with family counseling to get us through whatever this period is.
Nams, I hope that I don't repeat your story...sorry you had to go through it...and yes, between wanting to do the best for my kids and needing to know I've done everything in my power to recover the M, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing.
I do feel like a bit of a doormat and will probably kick myself for all the time wasted if it doesn't go well but then again I'll be able to sleep at night knowing I did my best. I still have love buried somewhere for this man, as crazy as it seems.
I also don't know that I could do this again with anyone else. Basically my philosophy is when you start with someone new all you get is new problems which take years to discover and deal with. I know what I have which is half the battle...now to conquer! My first M I could have never pictured myself wanting a D but it was all me...I hit the wall after years of plan A with someone who just wasn't wanting to work on things... This is my only saving grace, that I think I will recognize when it is really over for me regardless of whether it is over for H or not...
Just remember that even D is not the end. It is great that you are in family counseling and I hope you convince H to attend as well. This can be so helpful getting the children through this difficult time.
The longer you stay with your Plan A, the harder it will be to want the M. This is what happened to me. I guess Dr. Harley's 6 month rule makes sense. I prefer to think of it like a pet dog. How long can you kick you pet dog before some day it decides to bite you. But then I didn't go to school for no fancy educatun neither.
You need to stay with your best Plan A. It will be so helpful to your own personal recovery if you do. Isn't that what nams said a bit earlier?
Well today is substantially better. Yesterday I was really tense and even got into a fight with DD1 because she refused to eat her macaroni and cheese because the cheese was the wrong color and she said she didn't like it. I asked how she could make that assessment since she had yet to taste it. Finally I told her to go to her room. Instead she opted to taste it (and reluctantly liked it).
Parents night in G2 went okay. I had a great deal of difficulty getting to sleep because of my H?V problem. It just really seems to like to itch at night. How does it know?
No contact from WW. To be honest, I keep looking for an email. I think I am not looking so hard any more. I am back to imagining myself divorced/divorcing and it seems to be the safest way for me to think. I am not saying that is my plan - it is just my best mental approach that seems to keep me sane. I have another parents night tonight with DD2.
This is kind of a personal question Pio, but you've discussed your pee pee on here so I presume anything goes.
You obviously married quite "late". What was your history before you met gemela? It doesn't really have any bearing on anything that's followed but I'm interested in what your "romantic" background is. (Nosey actually)
Not trying to be evasive but I am not sure how to answer the question. I like what Glenn Close said to Robert Redford in the movie "The Natural".
ToddAC went to make an inventory system in Excel. That, in itself, bothers me. I would think inventory is better suited to database software (unless you don't sell anything).
Then finish your homework, make sure you brush your teeth and go get in bed and Rob will bring your milk to you in a few minutes. No...wait...that's MY house. Never mind.
Kiwi u crack me up with your curiousity but it was a good Q...just b/c G had an A doesn't really mean there is a direct relationship btwn your getting symptoms at that time...both of the viruses can lay dormant for long times and then just getcha when they feel the need to emerge or are triggered by stress. The whole STD issue only clouds the real problems...u can't place blame on something that absolutely can't be proven. If it were something like gonnorhea or chlamydia or something that both partners actively have at the same time that doesn not go away without antibiotic treatment then it is much easier to identify the person who gave you the gift. Has G been tested for HPV/HSV? As you know Pio from your smarta$$ comment yesterday, HPV will show up on pap. There is now an immunization for HPV which you can read about at the CDC website. This is a huge.
Ok, enough of todays medical updates
Give me some feedback on what you think this means...
It was my turn for date planning...I set up something neither of us had done together...got the babysitter etc. We go off and instantly I see H looks mildly anxious/aggravated...he asks me on the way if we are setting ourselves up for failure b/c of going from wanting a D 5d ago to trying to avoid any fighting, questioning and now spending so much time together compared to before. I just look at him and don't answer...he blows it off and says forget it.
The night was pretty much a nightmare. He hated the place, didn't touch his food, sat there as if he was being tortured and didn't speak...the entertainment portion thank goodness was excellent so that saved us from leaving. I had prepaid for everything so leaving at the onset wasn't really an option.
We leave and it is 8:30 pm and he is ready to go home...I request a stop so that I can get my favorite chocolate martini...we go to a very nice place and order at the bar.
He then goes back to R talk and wants to know if in the past week I have had any issues with things he done or said since I told him that I was doing what our MC recommended and was not reacting or verbalizing things the way I had previously. I told him that would ruin the whole point of me doing if I let him know what I would have said. He said that if anything bothered me he needed to know b/c he was on his best behavior and if I still had issues with him that would be an indicator to him that this M was doomed.
I told him that I thought he was just looking for an excuse to quit trying and looking for the easy out. He then kept pressing for info...I let him have it and told him that I thought his friends that were a couple were only his friends b/c he really likes the female and by being friends with her H it legitimizes his spending time and talking to/being around her. He confirmed I was correct. I told him that I realize b/c this has happened so much in the past where it just a friendship at the beginning but then he gets emotionally attached and it goes from there. I asked what it is about these OP that he needs that he can't get from me...he says they enjoy his sense of humor and can laugh together and have fun and that we have lost that.
I asked if he thought we could get it back and he said that was the whole point of us spending time together so that he could try and figure out if we could. He said he wants it badly but just doesn't know how to get it...says he has cut so much and so many things out of his life to try and make me less threatened and to be in only "appropriate" relationships that he is having tons of stress trying to keep the boundaries with all of these OPs who are pushing him in multiple directions. I'm sure he is correct about being stressed but I have a hard time empathizing since he created all of this mess.
He has said that if it weren't for the kids and money he would have left...said a small bit of his staying is me but the majority is the previously stated. He says he is afraid I am expecting everything to suddenly be all better. I told him I expect nothing and know it will take time to see if things are going to work...I also said that he has had since March and if he hasn't figured it out by now I doubt he will.
I think I need to get into Pio's frame of mind and mentally prep for D and if it doesn't happen that's a bonus. My H constantly makes comments jokingly about it being the end or that's it were done, it's over etc. Gets old quick.
Well I think H is still baiting you. Just don't bite. I'll read this a little more carefully in the morning as I am really pressed with the DDs but I did want to say one thing.
Early on in our journey, the MC suggested we go on "dates". Really bad advice and a huge disaster. Back then, WW was still heavily fogged and, although she never said this, I believe she felt that being out with me was cheating on OM and it was painful for her. She could not allow herself to have a good time with me and did everything she could to ruin it. And she did.
If you are lurking, can you please talk to Dr. Dina's office and get them to make me another pair of glasses EXACTLY like the ones we just got for Valeria? Trying to get her to remember to bring her glasses home from school is impossible. Please send them DHL and let me know all the costs. I need her to have a pair here for homework.
2much, my question had nothing to do with STD's. I just think it's interesting that gemela was the one who changed Pio's very long term single life into a married life.
It's usually someone very special who can do that to a long time bachelor. I was wondering really if there had been other long term relationships and what it was about gemela that was different.
That's the drawback of posting...you can never really know if you are interpretting print the way it was intended when written. I had no idea Pio had been a long term batchelor! I'm sure G is special and has some great qualities that keeps Pio in this despite the heartbreak and frustration and I'm doubly sure that is what makes it so painful.
I know when I think of the positives of the past it makes me sad that I just can't magically get them back. It also inspires me to know that things weren't perfect then either and so there is hope that we can create positives out of all of the negative energy if we really put ourselves to the challenge. There are days/moments I feel all tapped out but when I hear a song or see a picture I sometimes get a jump start and other times just plain depressed. Just like the weather I guess...
First off I think your H needs to wear the "scarlett letter" or maybe just a big sign saying "lock up your women - I'm a predator". I think you have a responsibility to this other couple to warn them about what is going on. Do you want to let H destroy more lives? I am not saying that you go to the man and say "hey, my H digs your W". But you can do it in a more subtle way.
It sounds like your H is still really fogged up. I have been in exactly your spot with gemela. I remember a Thanksgiving party we went to. One of her complaints about me was that I was not as outgoing as her. That was true and will always be true even though I have improved my social skills. At the party, I was conversing with everyone, learning all their life stories, laughing and joking - and it pissed G off. She was miserable. She went through many months of fighting to maintain her twisted perception of reality. I completely gave up on the dating because she hated it and it made me hate her - yes "hate"/anger. We stopped dating and I stopped hating. I think she also went through a long period where she wanted me to end the M. I don't know why she wanted that and I think it might be pretty complex. I don't think it is just because she loved OM. That may have been part of it. But there also has to be a terrible guilt element IMO that amkes the cut and run option pretty attractive and I think it is probably easier for a man to do that than a woman. It goes back to our caveman training.
All I can say is that I tried my best to stick to my Plan A and her behavior changed over time. She really began to change for the better after about 9 months and made the most gains in about month 10 which was about 6 months after last known contact.
BTW G does have HPV. I know it can lie dormant for many years but the timing of my symptoms is extremely coincidental. I still remember that feeling I had down there within days of that first SF. It was like I knew something was wrong but I was scared and tried to deny it - until the sores broke out. I was able to do enough research on the net to see that my sores resembled HPV more than anything. I was really scared of HIV. Fortunately the doctor got that middle letter wrong.
Hi Pio, Kiwi, 2much, & all the other regs. from this thread. I only picked the names from this page.
I'm just stopping in for a quick update on the date tonight. Unlike last week's date this man showed up on time. A real plus.
He was nice, easy to talk to, was completely present while talking with me. He referred to his son as a cutie pie which I thought was sweet. I'd like to go out with him again & he said he'd like to go out with me again. He'll be going to Italy for 10 days on Thurs. so I don't know if we'll see each other before that. Would be nice though he lives about an 45 min. to an hour from me. He hugged me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Pio, I was thinking the same thing...I was looking forward to meeting the H this w/e when my H invited him to one of the kids games...the W shows up instead...I have yet to meet this man who my H says he spends so much time with. Soon enough I will have to meet or do a little strategic planning on my own. The strangest thing was when my H was like this with my neighbor who is now my close friend, she had no idea and didn't really think anything of it, her H had no issues with the amt of time my H spent with his W. I was the only one who had issues. Now that my H basically cut off all ties with my neighbor (his own doing-replaced her company with other OWs) she admits that looking back it was all a bit weird but I tell you that is not at all how it went when it was happening. I think she was flattered and enjoyed all the company and attention.
Sorry about the STD stuff...I know it is no picnic.
I am now in month 7 so I guess I have a ways to go. I may loose my mind before the 12 month point though. The Harley's have something with the whole timeline thing...unfortunately everyone is different and some can tolerate more than others I think mostly based on past life experiences. Not saying that is good/bad.
There is so much more to life than dealing with all this M stuff and yet it all points back to your relationship with your spouse. I have always told H that if things were good with us I could deal with anything but as soon as we have issues I have difficulty dealing with the rest of life...basically b/c he is my foundation for dealing with life. I have slowly removed myself from this philosophy out of survival but don't enjoy it...lonely, lonely, lonely no matter how busy or how much I surround myself or submerge myself in other things. Just feel hollow...
Sounds like at least you had a good date! Beats my nightmare:)
Your date sounded very respectful, courteous and sweet to boot! Hope you get a second one before he leaves so that you have more to look forward to on return.
Yes the loneliness is the worst. I wonder if prisoners prefer torture to being locked up alone. It is when I am with gemela and everything is going smoothly that I feel the loneliest.
So larousse found a gum machine and got engaged. nams had a date show up on time. Maybe Rudolph can make it through the storm after all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Ironic that you would be the loneliest when with G...is it b/c you aren't getting your ENs met even when she is present? That was the case with my M for at least the 8 years preceding all this mess...H tried to meet needs that were important to him and I have to say he did make tons of efforts to meet other needs that I said were issues
I would say something like, if only dinner was ready when I got home...he went through a month or so of making dinner but I didn't change to meet his needs so then back to the same old same old
Then I would say...maybe if you went to church with us as a family...he'd do that a while but then he still wasn't getting what he needed so again it would die off
This was how life was for him for years b/c I couldn't/wouldn't/wasn't able to meet his SF needs the way he wanted...I was basically so tired from juggling work/kids/life and wasn't getting my ENs met and we didn't have anything in common but the kids...and so I wonder how things got so messed up. The one thing I stand by is that I wasn't unfaithful with EA or PA during any of this and neither one of us were happy. That is no longer the point...his behavior is so insane and I just get more bitter and resentful the longer I have to pretend that things are ok and that I am an unfeeling stone who can take any amount of rejection and isolation. It just stinks but a deal is a deal Pio so at least I know I'll hang till Oct without a major blow-out unless it is all him.
I can't imagine how prisoners deal with the loneliness...I think lots turn to God and develop relationships where there once were none. I need to do more of that myself.
Some of the lonliest & worst times of "our recovery" were when then h was away on a bowling trip to Reno with friends. Part of his independent behavior that did not help the marriage heal but I digress...While then h was away we would talk on the phone & text message. I told him I was feeling insecure, that I felt something wasn't right. He assured me things were fine. Within a few days of his return he started his pulling away. The rest is history.
The silver lining is this incident made me pay more attention to my intuition.
Huggers are the best! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I tried to let DDs call mommy last night when I got home from work but the phones are just messed up. I had to run off to school to DD2's parents night. Children were not invited (although some didn't read the memo too closely). I sat there in the lobby in a room full of people and I felt like I was completely alone. I could hear the noise of people talking and then I couldn't. After a bit, I didn't really see them any more either.
So I get home and check the phone and discover that G called while I was out. Nobody is home so I walk to the park and find DDs and take them home to do homework. I ask DD1 is she talked to mommy (because it was the time of day she is usually outside playing). If she hadn't spoken to mommy, I was going to try to call mommy back. She says that she did talk to mommy and that mommy will be home on the 30th.
I think it is great that G and I can communicate so well.
Sorry. Editing so as not to bump the thread.
2much,
You say you were unhappy in your marriage for 8 years prior to the A? Do you think H was unhappy all those years too?
OT:
I just got an email that I am so excited about! I have been waiting so long for this and now I can't believe it has finally happened! This day I had hoped for for so long is finally almost here!
yes, in about 15 days my new scrapbooking stuff will be here! I am agog and I don't even know what agog means!
Oh, and once it gets here, I have a special treat in store for KiwiJ but it is going to be a surprise!
t/j:
I clearly told gemela in my email(s) that I wanted her to stay in Mexico until she could decide on M or D. I also told her not to come back until we discussed it. So, since she knew all that and is coming back anyway without one word to me, I have to assume it is going to be D. Any ideas?
nams,
I am really happy or you. I bet you sleep great.
sorry - editing once again. I just wanted to say that I really like suzychapstick's screen name. Am I the only one who remembers who suzychapstick is/was?
BigK it is SO obvious to me that Pio is a closet pink short wearer. It's why he kept trying to deflect the issue back to Rob so we wouldn't find out his ghastly secret.
Er, Pio, scrapbooking by men is sorta weird. Some do it but it's not a very manly, sweaty thing to do if you get my meaning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So what do you tell DD1 now. That mommy isn't coming home? Why did g do that? To put you over a barrel so you have no choice? She can't just turn up back in SA. What a mess.
I'll be making my paper edge cuts with my combination miter saw. I don't know if I'll be using the router to make the frame cuts, the jig saw or just a simple plunge cut with the circular saw. I'll try various techniques and see what works best. I am working on a way to make my brad tool pneumatic and hook it up to my 5 1/2 Hp compressor. My rough calculations have me bradding about 3000 pages (more or less) in one shot. [Note to self: verify yield strength of 1/8" brass brads]
Sweat stains will give the pages character. Forget that whimpy spray-on glue. I am talking high temperature thermoset epoxy.
BTW, any thoughts about G telling DD1 she will be back in 12 days? Just seems strange to me that she has not said anything to me about it.
Let's not forget "excellence" theory. Yes I know a fair bit about scrapbooking and I have never done it. Amazing what you pick up when you have to.
Let me make a point of something which is more or less a question.
I play golf. Sometimes I play well and other times I don't. I'll never go pro. When some people swing the club and hit the ball, they follow it, moving their body to help guide the ball, worrying about where the ball is going to end up, will it clear the water? will it go into the trap or stop short? what kind of lie will it end up it?
When I hit the ball, I don't think about any of that. I understand that wherever the ball will end up has already been decided by the way I struck it, angle and velocity of impact, direction of flight, etc. Everything else - wind direction and velocity, humidity, fairway hardness, grass length, etc. is already there. I no longer have any influence whatsoever once the ball leaves the face of the club. No matter how badly the ball ends up, I never get angry or discouraged because I was the one who swung the club. The only time I ever do get disappointed with myself is if I am playing in a very very strong wind and misclub for the wind but otherwise made a great swing. In that case I realize I should have been smarter.
Different scenario. Say you are on American Idol. You are in the final two and it is the night of the big announcement. The votes were cast the night before and have already been tallied. This is the big night. Are you nervous? If so, why? Nothing will change anything at this point.
Okay, so what do those two things have to do with my sitch and do those things make me an inadequate person? That is the question.
I hope ToddAC comes back pretty soon because I think I need an inventory system for all my scrapbook materials.
Did Gemela indicate to DD1 where she expects she will be sleeping when she returns? Like she's made motel reservations right?
Once DD1 said that mommy would be here on the 30th, I changed subjects. I don't want to grill my daughter. I wasn't even trying to find out whether mommy said she was coming back - I just wanted conversation that they had actually spoken. DD1 first said mommy will be back on the 20th. I asked if she was sure. Then she said: no - the 30th - the end of the month. I stopped that conversation then and we talked about homework.
Doesn't that mean you won't/can't step in to change things while they are in motion?
Good question. I don't know. I am not talking about curling where I could affect the results with my broom (assuming I knew anything about curling). No. There is nothing within your power to affect a golf ball. It is in nature's hands then.
All I know about curling is that it involves ice, brooms, a big heavy thing and copious quantities of beer. this from a Canadian friend of mine who is apparently an expert.
Quite frankly if I were you at this stage I would call her, NC or not. Only because of DD1 and what she may be expecting, thinks is happening.
But am I curling or golfing? That is my dilemma and my problem. Okay I am speaking in metaphor (or is that allegory?) but I am quite serious. I don't know what is the right thing to do.
I think Cymanaca was wondering where you got "betrayed" from "Piojitos". I don't think he was up with the whole change of name/head lice thing.
That isn't what he asked. I'm not a mind reader. BTW that was posted and well documented a while back. I can repeat if I need to. I don't mind.
I forgot to mention I do have a bit of bad news. On my way to work this morning, I noticed that the Iftar tents are starting to go up everywhere. Bummer.
Well this month is almost over so whenever the moon sighting committee spots the crescent moon next will be the beginning of the month of Ramadan. One of the five pillars of Islam is that most everyone must fast from dawn to dusk during the month of Ramadan. Exceptions are children, the sick, pregnant women, people traveling, etc.
So the Muslims who are hungry all day break their fast at Iftar and this is a big social event as well. Iftar tents are set up where Muslims can go for Iftar and find food and drink.
From my POV what this means is that I have a month coming up where I have to watch very cerefully what we do outside the house during the day. If we eat or drink anything in public during the day, it is considered a great offense. i knew a guy who almost died from a beating he took for eating a candy bar, for example. Fortunately the police arrested him which saved his life.
I think men should do their scrap booking in a spa.
Curling too.
Head lice, ants & roaches will inherit the earth& do a much better job of keeping it clean than we have.
Gawd Pio, g is a prize. I'll bet she & her sister strategized in Mexico & this surprise trip home is part of that. An upper hand thing. I agree you should be in contact. Maybe email with a request she get back to you so you know she's gotten it a read it. On the phone may be too tempting to DJ.
Larousse must have run off with the Cracker Jack ring wielding BF to honeymoon at...someplace in keeping with a plastic ring.
Pio, how about this for g:
G, DD1 tells me you intend to return to SA on the 30th. Please speak to me before you make plans.
I do not want you to come back unless you have decided to commit to the M (you insert by doing xyz, being brief) or want to seek a D. Either way I want to know before you come.
If you don't want her staying in the house make it clear she'll need to make arrangements to stay elsewhere. Since ex is passive aggressive he would have come unannounced.
Your stomach must be churning. I know mine was for the three years it took to get D. Except for sometimes during "recovery" when I lived in ignorance.
Actually I am quite calm. I have to coach soccer here in another few minutes for twenty 8 yr old girls. I can't think much beyond that right now.
As far as G returning, it will likely be very late when she gets in. I am sure we will all be asleep. That will be very interesting.
Right now I just need to keep her out of my mind. I am going to Bahrain on Wednesday night to get a new snorer to DD1's teddy bear. I also need soccer shoes for DD2. Amazon woman will watch the DDs and I am coming back Thursday morning. I told DD1 about all this yesterday and she was excited about the new snorer. This AM she is in tears and says she can't spend one night without the teddy bear. I reminded her that the bear has been in DD2's room for the past 10 days and that hasn't bothered her yet. Besides, I need teddy to take care of me when I am in Bahrain.
Yes piojitos, I had sex with him I never refused this,,, ever... As you know I confessed almost everything to my H except for the sexual part... I have my reasons,, and these are violence, and my H threaten with kill himself.. he crased his car.. and well I explained to Tod that maybe when my Love Bank would be better that now, I could confess everything... I NEVER EVER I denied my responsability about my A... or A's.... I dont need to explain someone like you but as you are the perfet MB member, well then Im going to do... If I use another members logins here I have my reasons,,, I dont want to my H review all details here.. thats why... I had explained this very well... I havent used any information that I have read here to hurt anyone.. and you do piojitos... just read again everything you post here... And if we are going to be honest here why you dont read all G's posts and CONFESS the real person that you are, or better said, the perfect and lovely husband that you have been, Its not my style been such adorable as you has been here.. so Im not going to use this information... and because I respect G privacy.... If I didnt explain everything since my first post, yes I admited, but this again is because my H is reviewing all my internet access... What do you feel I started to ventile (ventilar) all your dirty lanundry here? Now I understood so good G' comments,,,, Life your life piojitos. I made my desicion and Im going to recover my M, and until I got professional help Im going to keep posting here, learning, and sharing my experience... maybe I can help someone.... Solo porque hables el inglés bien no te hace el MB miembro vengador... ocúpate de tus asuntos.... Y ahora veo como interpretas las cosas,, y entiendo muy bien a Gemela...si fuera la misma lacra como tu entonces usaría información personal para ventilarla acá... pero no lo haré solo por respeto a Gemela.... no por tí, asi que puedes seguir siendo el esposo perfecto pobrecito traicionado... Todos tenemos lo que nos merecemos en este mundo recuérdalo.. Y aunque seas una víbora venenosa,, (raro que un hombre se comporte como tal) espero que si G decide intentar de nuevo contigo, por tus hijas, ojalá llegues a encontrar la paz y todo ese coraje que tienes la direcciones hacia algo positivo y tu familia pueda estar felizmente unida...
I didnt want to post in your posts because you dont support some things,, some others point of views, but as you were so charming to post in mine, I want to let you know this...
Hola Myrta, I want to let clear something,, piojitos is telling his version of the story.. Yes I admited that I was posting under others login's,, but Im not telling other stories... At the beginning I posted here on D day.. I was dessperate, my H was drinking I looked for help, and In fact I found it...then I confessed everything,, for me this was difficult, and it helped me.. told hole story... sometimes I write in spanish because I can express myself better in my native language... I erases most of all these posts because I dont want that my H knows hole story by this way...and right now my Love Bank is amost empty and I want to put some deposits before reveal all to my H... Thats the reason Myrta... I havent told my H about my OS with OM, and I almost sure that this is going to finish my M.. believe me,,, is the worst thing that my H could support... I want to be a better wife and build a strong M.. I want to recover my M, and at least for now I dont want to reveal evertthing to my H....
Well....catch up day for me.....been busy this weekend.... if you missed my post....I had announced my PLAN to 'invite' a bunch of friends.....don't think I had 'hosted' this kind of get-to-together since WS left..
Well...people... I guess I am a lot more organized than I thought..... made myself a plan....schedule....lists..... and the get-to-together was a TOTAL success!
My 'home' has definitely got its 'homey' feeling back....if ever I had doubted it! ....and it's what I can at least offer the boys 'minus' dad.....which I can't do anything about!
...I am with the 'gang' on this one.... if G insists on returning without discussing it with you first.... then you might need to consider letting her know ....that she needs to make arrangements for accommodations....as she has not yet made her intentions clear to you.....
..I would no longer insist that she not come.....can't really stop her even if you wanted to.....and anyway this would allow G to 'blame' you for not allowing her to see DDs....
I'll be honest. I feel so disconnected right now that I'll just take whatever happens. There is nothing standing in the way of divorce any more. I hate to say that but I have been lurking over in Hiker's thread(s) and the more I read about the romantic affair, the less I want to stay married. Maybe I should stay away from those threads? Dunno.
lunamare? Is that something to do with the moon and the ocean?
If regreted says anything worthwhile, give me a heads up. I thought she had gone away. Too bad she can't stay away. I hate liars. I have had to deal with a lying WW for the past year and I just can't tolerate yet another one. Sorry.
regreted (who is also known as tear) said (and can't delete)
Quote
Yes piojitos, I had sex with him I never refused this,,, ever... As you know I confessed almost everything to my H except for the sexual part... I have my reasons,, and these are violence, and my H threaten with kill himself.. he crased his car.. and well I explained to Tod that maybe when my Love Bank would be better that now, I could confess everything... I NEVER EVER I denied my responsability about my A... or A's.... I dont need to explain someone like you but as you are the perfet MB member, well then Im going to do... If I use another members logins here I have my reasons,,, I dont want to my H review all details here.. thats why... I had explained this very well... I havent used any information that I have read here to hurt anyone.. and you do piojitos... just read again everything you post here... And if we are going to be honest here why you dont read all G's posts and CONFESS the real person that you are, or better said, the perfect and lovely husband that you have been, Its not my style been such adorable as you has been here.. so Im not going to use this information... and because I respect G privacy.... If I didnt explain everything since my first post, yes I admited, but this again is because my H is reviewing all my internet access... What do you feel I started to ventile (ventilar) all your dirty lanundry here? Now I understood so good G' comments,,,, Life your life piojitos. I made my desicion and Im going to recover my M, and until I got professional help Im going to keep posting here, learning, and sharing my experience... maybe I can help someone.... Solo porque hables el inglés bien no te hace el MB miembro vengador... ocúpate de tus asuntos.... Y ahora veo como interpretas las cosas,, y entiendo muy bien a Gemela...si fuera la misma lacra como tu entonces usaría información personal para ventilarla acá... pero no lo haré solo por respeto a Gemela.... no por tí, asi que puedes seguir siendo el esposo perfecto pobrecito traicionado... Todos tenemos lo que nos merecemos en este mundo recuérdalo.. Y aunque seas una víbora venenosa,, (raro que un hombre se comporte como tal) espero que si G decide intentar de nuevo contigo, por tus hijas, ojalá llegues a encontrar la paz y todo ese coraje que tienes la direcciones hacia algo positivo y tu familia pueda estar felizmente unida...
I didnt want to post in your posts because you dont support some things,, some others point of views, but as you were so charming to post in mine, I want to let you know this...
Sorry for my mispeling oh big piojitos!!
and this
Quote
Hola Myrta, I want to let clear something,, piojitos is telling his version of the story.. Yes I admited that I was posting under others login's,, but Im not telling other stories... At the beginning I posted here on D day.. I was dessperate, my H was drinking I looked for help, and In fact I found it...then I confessed everything,, for me this was difficult, and it helped me.. told hole story... sometimes I write in spanish because I can express myself better in my native language... I erases most of all these posts because I dont want that my H knows hole story by this way...and right now my Love Bank is amost empty and I want to put some deposits before reveal all to my H... Thats the reason Myrta... I havent told my H about my OS with OM, and I almost sure that this is going to finish my M.. believe me,,, is the worst thing that my H could support... I want to be a better wife and build a strong M.. I want to recover my M, and at least for now I dont want to reveal evertthing to my H....
and regreted/tear also said this
Quote
About this piojitos that you wrote me in my thread..
"You delete your posts because you don't want your H to know any of what you did. You came on MB as tear - a woman who only exchanged a few emails with OM, oh, and had a cup of coffee once. Then you became someone else (forgot the name) and then you became regreted the internet porn queen."
You are right in just one part, I dont want to my H knows the sexual part... I admited to him that I was involved with OM.. now I realized how discosting was my behaviour,, I had OS with this man, I had sex by internet, yes,, and even by phone,, with this OM.. but this doesnt means that Im the internet porn queen... LOL, now you made me laugh piojitos, and I want to say thanks to you....a big laugh in the morning always is useful. thanks pio...
And respect to this commment:
....."at least be honest with these people even if you wish to continue to lie to your husband."
Can you tell me where I lie in my last post? ... I just asked for an advice about sexual affection, and I fact I got it and it was useful for me...
"I don't think you have any chance of saving your marriage as long as you continue to lie. Only the truth will save you. Until you can accept that and deal with it, posting to you is a waste of time." Let me explain you again something,, two days after D day my mom arrived to visit us, so she lived with me some of those terrible days.. she saw my H drunk and yealing, in a lock room, she listened my H screaming about killing himself.. she wanted to stop me when my H left home, and I started to followed him on the street.. I refused, and you know the finish... My mother told me,, if you have SF with OM dont ever tell to you H.. My father by phone, told me,,, you dont need to confess everything to me, go to the church and confessed to a prist (cura) and look for God forgiveness.. I havent spoken with a prist (cura) I started to pray again since my D day.. I looked for forgivess, I went to the church but the prist wasnt there.. (I need to go again) Maybe Im wrong but I think I learned the lesson, and I need to change me!!! just ME!!! I was the one that lied, I was the one that forgot the promise that I did on my weeding day. a promise that I did in front of God, in his house.. I failed, I was a stupid and selfish person, YES!! I deserved burned in ****** YES!!! I was thinking just in me, I forgot even my little daughter, YES... I was in a dusty "lodo"... un lodo lleno de mier... and I think that I need to work a lot to be a clean person again... I need to change myself, I had lot of troubles, and my family doesnt have the fault to deal with them... Im not a perfect person, and I want a second chance, and if this time I failed again, then I deserved to be alone for the rest of my life.. Im hanging this second chance-, and I want to have my M recovering.. Im going to put everything I can, do my best.. In fact, I applied some advices (larouse, lovinganyway, piojitos,etc etc) and I was improving my comunication with my H... MAybe Im making another error hidding SF with OM, or internet, to my H.. but I think this is the only way to have a chance in my M... How a society that is so traditional can accept something so nasty? .. believe me,,, I have heard my H what he thinks about stuff like this...
So now whatever tear / regreted has written cannot be deleted by here and, if her BH ever finds this forum, he will be able to finally see the truth without her lying about it.
Tear / regreted,
I did my very best to try to help you but I cannot support you continuing to lie to your H. The lies will destroy your marriage. You may get by with it for a little while but sooner or later your world is going to fall apart. If you would tell you H the truth, I would give you all my support. But I refuse to support a liar. Good luck.
I'll be honest. I feel so disconnected right now that I'll just take whatever happens. There is nothing standing in the way of divorce any more. I hate to say that but I have been lurking over in Hiker's thread(s) and the more I read about the romantic affair, the less I want to stay married. Maybe I should stay away from those threads? Dunno.
OK...but you still haven't answered the question....what will you do when G. shows up at your doorsteps?
Stay away from any thread that will 'discourage' you...... what a BS needs most is support....and I don't mean the 'cross-your-heart' type!
....and Pio....figure out what it will take for you to connect to yourself first......
....that's what I am working on...I am finding that I am 'good company' more and more......
...and, Pio, tell me, what have you done lately, for yourself...other than your attemps at exfoliating your feet?
Quote
lunamare? Is that something to do with the moon and the ocean?
Yeap...
Quote
If regreted says anything worthwhile, give me a heads up. I thought she had gone away. Too bad she can't stay away. I hate liars. I have had to deal with a lying WW for the past year and I just can't tolerate yet another one. Sorry.
OK Pio....can't heal the wound yet keep hitting on it!
Haven't heard much about 'colour' schemes for your DDs... have you got it down to an 'art form' or was it just the first week?
I was going to stay out of this, but.... since Regreted keeps popping up, thought I'd just throw in this:
I'm sure that in every situation involving more than one person, that there are two sides to every story, different views of reality, etc. We all can attest that an honest WS is a very rare commodity and that G has proven that she has lied repeatedly.
Given all that, if I had:
1. Had an affair 2. Had sex in my husband's bed 3. Done that with my young children in the next room 4. Continued contact and repeatedly lied about it
well... I would never expect to be given any chance at my marriage again. And if by some miracle, I were given a second chance, I would do everything in my power to make up for all I had done wrong, regardless of the supposed faults of my BH. But then, since I would do all that, I wouldn't have an affair in the first place.
I'm sure Pio hasn't been the perfect husband. He's admitted that he made mistakes and he's tried to change. The fact that he has been willing to give G a chance at all is says a lot about his character and the love of his daughters.
And who is here on MB trying to deal with this situation and find help? G tried a bit and then disappeared. My guess why is because she didn't hear what she wanted.
This is Pio's thread. I'm not saying that anyone should be excluded, but if you upset him when he needs help, then maybe you should let him alone. I don't see anything constructive coming out of this for him. I may offer advice or opinions that Pio doesn't agree with or that irritate him, but at least my intentions are good -- I'm trying to help him -- NOT justify my own behavior.
That's all I have to say, Regreted.
Pio, sorry to talk about you in third person. I don't have anything constructive to offer you right now or I'd try to help. I hope that things work out better than you're expecting. And just want to say that anyone whose favorite shows are "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report" is ok in my book. That alone scores you extra points.
Don't worry about me. I am not sure what is bothering regreted so much but she is free to say whatever she wants just as long as she doesn't keep deleting it. I do wish her husband would find this forum because I think any BS deserves the truth. I don't see anywhere in SAA where it recommends lying to your BS as a way to salvage a marriage.
I am disappointed though - me not the perfect husband? Is that yet another DJ?
Quote
I wouldn't have an affair in the first place.
Never say never. That is when you are at greatest risk.
lunamare,
When am I going to do something for myself? I don't have time. The maid goes out every night from about 7:00 to 10:00 or 11:00. She makes me babysit! I'm doing okay. I have been stressed out the past few days over the impending return of WW but I am calm again. I had to apologize to DD1 yesterday because I was short with her and told her I was tired of fighting with her every single night to get into the bath tub. This was just after I found out that G was coming back in 12 days. I could have handled it differently.
I get up every morning at 3:30 and exercise and that is what I do for me. Between sets I fix something, build something, create something in the garage. It is a very productive time.
Is it the moon and the ocean or the moon and the tide?
I had stoped to post in piojitos thread's... I gave him my personal point of view about his case.. he didnt like my point of view, so I decided to stop in his thread's I said thank to him (you can read that in this thread.)
Then pio went to my post to shows his point of view.. in a "polite manner" ...
Believe me I just using the replica's right.. thats it..
You are right Grown up and this site is for help, and my last post here in this thread are just to clarify some issues mines just this...
Thanks for make my mind clear.. Grown up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
you lie to your H and you lie to people on this site. I remember your first weeks posting. All you admitted to was an EA via email. Then you recently made a new thread and hid many facts. You lie to everyone and you lie to good people here at MB that take their time to try to help people that need help. Problem is, you don't want help. You want enablers to support your wrong view of things so you have to bend the truth to get it.
When am I going to do something for myself? I don't have time.
...maybe its time to get your super duper spreadsheet out to figure it out.... do the DDs have friends? ..... could you alternate looking after them as a 'group' and free up a couple of hours here and there with friends' parents? If your maid is out every night.... consider other 'babysitter' arrangements..... I think working out it great..... and working in the garage being productive is great, too...but I am thinking more of 'adult' contact...... go out for a beer with the guys.....I don't know.... I am not a guy! ....you see, personally, a couple days at a SPA....having people looking after me...would suit me just fine!
....but since you are 'stuck' on just the name of these places... hard to imagine you being IN one of them....LOL....
....you are going away for a few days....maybe you could fit something in during that time....
....BTW....this won't get you out of answering my question: what do you plan to do when G is at your doorsteps?
Quote
Is it the moon and the ocean or the moon and the tide?
Sorry...didn't know you wanted me to be more specific... luna = moon mare = sea
But all the beer here is NA beer. I don't see the point of NA beer. Why get fat without any of the benefit?
I am going to meet a coworker in Bahrain on Wednesday and he is going to buy me a beer. I am going to sit and feel sorry for myself and drink my beer.
Then I am going to buy a size 4 soccer ball because I only have sizes 3 and 5. I am going to nuy shin guards for DD2 because even though I know they have soccer on different nights, I would never ask DD1 to let DD2 use her shin guards. Then I am going to get a new snorer for the darn teddy bear. DD1 and I thoroughly discussed the required surgery. I assured her that with lasers, there will be no bleeding and no pain and her teddy will be up and around in a day with proper therapy.
Pio with all due respect, Gemela did not have a romantic affair. She had an adolescent fantasy and it could have been Daffy Duck.
I keep trying to say how dangerous "non romantic" A's are. That is A's that have no little love notes or silly pet words or any of the other adolescent stuff that marks most A's.
HOla Regretted--=-Como sabes que tu esposo lee aqui? El chequea tus actividades en la computadora? Si es asi, puedo ver porque tengas temor de escribir con el mismo nombre. Pero................el hecho de que hayas dicho cuando eras Tear que no habias tenido sexo, y ahora dices, que si....pues no veo la razon. Cuando eras TEar, dijistes que solo habian intercambiado unas cartas y lo habias visto, pero que no habia habido nada fisico.
Regetted....si tu esposo lee todas las historias contradictorias, de que si, o que no....pues eso es peor. El va a cre er que hicistes mucho mas . Yo creo que si vienes aqui a pedir o buscar ayuda, debes venir con la verdad de frente. NO te sirve a ti ni a ninguno que trate de ayudarte, saber medias verdades.
Yo se que es bien dificil confesar las infidelidades pero si uno quiere realmente recuperar el matrimonio, o hacerlo mejor, hay que decir la verdad, y atenerse a las consecuencia. Si esta de que el no te perdone, pues, ese sera el resultado o consequencia de lo que hicistes.
Te recomiendo sinceramente. que no le mientas mas a tu esposo. Tienes que tratar de decirle lo que paso, y que realmente estas arrepentida. Y rogarle que te perdone, que tu lo quieres, y no quieres perderlo.
Regretted----Yo se que es un alto riesgo revelarle al esposo algo asi, pero en realidad si quieres tener un matrimonio que valga la pena, hay que hacerlo.... Mira el matrimonio que tienes ahora, te gusta? estas disfrutando estar casada? Tu hija esta feliz con sus padres con una relacion tan tirante? No es nada facil ver a los padres pelear como gatos y perros y no demostrar amor. Eso no es vida para una nena, pues va a crecer con tapujos y miedos.
Stanley se puso bien deprimido y perdio mucho peso cuando lo supo todo...Pero despues del shock inicial, empieza una aceptacion o rechazo total de la pareja. Ahi es que el BS empieza a ver con claridad que quiere hacer, si quedarse casado o no.
Pero solo TU puedes tomar la decision de tu futuro, y la calidad que quieres en tu vida, no?
Stanley y yo estamos de lo mas bien, pero ya llevamos 2 anos y 3 meses en esto. Ya yo creo nuestro "rollercoaster" termino!! GAD
You are free to continue to post here siempre y cuando regreted tells the truth. I cannot support her belief that she is doing any good for her marriage and family by hiding her acts. It is her husband's right to knw and his decision as to whether he continues in the M. Things are getting better are they? What does that mean? He is not sleeping on the floor any more? He is not beating you? If that is your benchmark for marriage, fine. But your marriage is a complete and total lie. It is based on nothing. It is the proverbial house of cards. So please do go a continue your pathetic justifications on your own thread. When you start telling the truth to us and to your husband, you get my full support.
One other piece of information you need to be aware of. I always had your thread(s) on my favorite topics. As a result, I got an email for every post you ever made. You may have deleted those posts in your thread but guess what - I have every single one on my hard drive. So if you wish to haggle over what you have and have not said, I will be happy to refresh your memory by reposting what you have so carefully deleted and, unfortunately for you, you can't delete mine. Since I know your H checks all your email, if I ever do get your email address, I will email you the whole lot and see if he notices. That's because somebody needs to tell your H the truth and you refuse. I'll be happy to help you out and tell him for you.
Do you know I studied Latin for three years in school? I, like Dan Quayle, wanted to be able to communicate with the people in Latin America. I remember having to read Caesar's Gallic Wars in Latin. Hey, wait a minute - maybe that's where I get it! I studied French bashing in Latin for three years! Do you think that Caesar was the first documented French basher? I had never made the connection before. Interesting.
Pio with all due respect, Gemela did not have a romantic affair. She had an adolescent fantasy and it could have been Daffy Duck.
I keep trying to say how dangerous "non romantic" A's are. That is A's that have no little love notes or silly pet words or any of the other adolescent stuff that marks most A's.
KiwiJ,
You have lost me here. It seems you are contradicting yourself. They did have love notes and silly pet names and secret signs. Can you explain what you mean a little better? I keep rereading it and I am still not sure I get what you are saying.
You mean you weren't impressed before. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I don't really want to use myself as an example. The thing is that the OM and I had a very long history together, including my father stepping in as his surrogate father when the OM's father left the family for an OW. When we met again we didn't have to go through any of the getting to know each other or all the other "silly notes" and "pet names." It was two people who behaved as though they'd known each other for years (as we had). There was no romance which, as I said before, made it that much more dangerous and hard to let go.
I think that an A based on love notes and pet names is doomed to run itself out as soon as reality intrudes.
Is that any clearer? I seriously don't want to sound like I'm justifying anything which is why I didn't want to use my A as an example.
I seriously don't want to sound like I'm justifying anything which is why I didn't want to use my A as an example.
It never occurred to me to take it that way. We all speak best from experience. You are expert in your type of affair are you not? You know much more about it than most so it is invauable info.
I am still confused. Please go back an reread your post in question. Maybe you didn't really say what you think you said but, to me, it is contradictory. OTOH, I do have to consider the fact that, while our languages are similar, they are not exactly the same. Yours is [color:"red"] coloured [/color] with way too many letters in words that serve no purpose, for example.
What I read from your post is that, since G did trade love notes and have pet names, that it is a romantic affair.
BTW, soccer practice went okay for the most part. In two separate incidents, two different girls tackled my poor Valeria from behind and made her cry. I gave them both [color:"red"] red cards [/color] so they are out for a week!
It depends on the definition of romantic affair. Sorry, if I went on too much and sorry about using u in the middle of words where they properly belong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am taking the definition of a romantic affair as that in which the people have an emotional bond.
I don't think that what gemela and pool boy had was an emotional bond. What they had was a pretence of romance that was as insubstantial as a puff of wind. (Hey, just call me BobPure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
I once did a study in graduate school regarding deforestation and the print media and estimated how many acres of trees could be saved annually if you and the French would stop throwing useless letters about while refusing to pronounce them.
What I discovered is that it would devastate the economy of Brasil. The paper was quickly quashed.
I once did a study in graduate school regarding deforestation and the print media and estimated how many acres of trees could be saved annually if you and the French would stop throwing useless letters about while refusing to pronounce them.
ROTFLMAO
I've always wondered why Americans use a z when a perfectly good s will do in words like recognise and polarise and antagonise and....you get the picture.
Do you say "re cog NICE" or "re cog NIZE"? Just curious. We Americans view the use of "s" as snooty. We Americans are, as Bill Murray said in Stripes, mutts. We be simple folk and we ain't got much use fer that hi-falootin stuff.
Well I am leaving and going to the desert for a meeting. I hope I get back before I see the sunset.
It's because you still think you are Australian. Once you accept that you are not, you'll come back down to earth. And I am sure bigK will agree with me on that.
I told you about my English friend who decided to move to Australia and try to get citizenship, didn't I?
He has lived in Oz the required time and finally gets his interview for citizenship. He goes and is being led through all the standard questions and the officer asks him "Do you have a criminal record?". He replies "I didn't know it was still a requirement.".
Yes that is true and fortunately the officer had a great sense of humor (humour?) and he got his passport.
The extra letters...I think they want to show us they can spell bigger words.
Pio, when other kids hurt your children I think you're allowed to ban them from the sport for life.
Just a quick "hello". Gotta go, be back later to see what's up with y'all. I wish the north would adopt the word y'all, it really is a good one. Maybe if we added some extra letters to it the north would be more excepting of it.
When I lived in London years ago, I had the darndest time trying to find places like "Li-chester" square. To this day I have no idea how to pronounce "Slough" and I drove through it every day of the work week. Is it "Slow", "Sluff", "Slawf", "Slew"?
When I lived in London years ago, I had the darndest time trying to find places like "Li-chester" square. To this day I have no idea how to pronounce "Slough" and I drove through it every day of the work week. Is it "Slow", "Sluff", "Slawf", "Slew"?
From what I understand, it rhymes with "now." Go figure.
How do you think the locals pronounce Leominister?
Things are going. I am working for a J&J company now, it's a year only agreement but it's a good way to go back to the market. In the M, I think we're getting better. I trigger a lot but we've been dealing with them mostly together. I've been very clear on his responsibilities and how we should deal with that. I guess I've been more assertive than ever before and that's good for me and for M. He is NC since june, then (as you predicted) I got him sending a "business" e-mail to her. After a "talk", he agreed to send another e-mail, formally asking her not to contact him ever again and to direct any remaining business issues to someone else. That was a little victory for my sanity. I still get suspicious, but mainly I know where he is, he's been coming home early and spending all free time with me or the family. So, even if it is really difficult and hard (sometimes I wonder if it would have not been easier to shut the door on the D day) we have good moments and the kids are getting their father back, which is worth all the effort, I guess. I've been following your story and I hope you are doing good. Are you?
That all sounds really positive estrela. Now, what are you doing for your husband? Are you going out more? Are you getting out of the house any?
My story, I'm afraid, is not great at the moment but I have not seen gemela for a month or so which has been a very good thing for me. She may be coming back in a little less than two weeks so I will be able to update then. At the moment I am clueless which, as most women will agree, is pretty much the natural state of a man anyway.
We didn't have anything planned for the first night all week so we came home and practiced soccer kicks with the side of the foot as well as legal throw-ins. Then we played Uno until DD2 got mad (she doesn't like getting +2 and +4 cadrs and never thinks it is fair. Then DD1 and I played marbles and I LOST!!!! She cheats though. And now we are playing Bratz in my room for some reason I still don't quite understand but I'm sure made sense to someone at the time.
I am implementing changes also. We're "dating" twice a week (!) and I've got my mother to come from Brazil (or should I say Brasil) to stay with DDs while we went to Israel/Greece for 12 days. It was tough being without kids that long but very good to be alone with H. A lot of triggers in Israel (the OW is israeli and they've been there together) but we managed to have a good time and start building new memories (my goal was to reclaim Israel and travelling together). It sounds you are having great time with DDs. Are you playing Bratz with dolls or in the computer?
Am I supposed to know what an NA beer is and why there is no point in drinking it?
Quote
I am going to sit and feel sorry for myself and drink my beer.
no no no no.....my point is not that you have to drink a beer..... but rather do something enjoyable.... and it doesn't sound it would be....drinking a beer! LOL.....
Quote
Then I am going to buy a size 4 soccer ball because I only have sizes 3 and 5. I am going to nuy shin guards for DD2 because even though I know they have soccer on different nights, I would never ask DD1 to let DD2 use her shin guards. Then I am going to get a new snorer for the darn teddy bear. DD1 and I thoroughly discussed the required surgery. I assured her that with lasers, there will be no bleeding and no pain and her teddy will be up and around in a day with proper therapy.
...sounds like you have everything under control....except answering my question which I will duly re-cite...as I see a reasonable answer will be forthcoming...sooner or in this case... LATER! ...et voilà ma question:
Quote
....BTW....this won't get you out of answering my question: what do you plan to do when G is at your doorsteps?
Quote
mare = sea in what language? That's where I am stuck.
....Italian....what else?
....and I see Kiwi beat me to it!
Quote
I think that an A based on love notes and pet names is doomed to run itself out as soon as reality intrudes.
I tend to agree wit Kiwi on this one...and they are REALLY based on fantasy!.... because I think my WS is in a 'romantic affair'..... when my DS15 reported back to me: "I don't understand....dad was the one who wanted to and left....yet he is often very sad....and just burst out in tears while just sitting at the table...." it makes me think that 'reality' is hitting him hard on the head....not enough, of course, to do something about it! WS can be hardhead if and when his pride doesn't get in the way....
Quote
two different girls tackled my poor Valeria from behind and made her cry. I gave them both red cards so they are out for a week!
Pio...you can be my daddy anytime!
Hi BigK,
Quote
BTW - With Romantic affairs - think Romeo and Juliet - ie they all end in tragedy upon consumation - according to Frank Pittman.
....my WS once referred to himself and OW as that.....R & J..... against 'society' that wants to keep them apart....
... unfortunately, it came to me only as afterthought....but I should have asked WS exactly when was he planning to kill himself....
The answer to your question is I have no idea. I honestly cannot fit it in no matter which way I turn it. I suspect I will be sound asleep whenever she gets here. I have no idea what I will wake up to. That is a weird feeling. She will likely get here about 1:00 or 2:00AM. Who knows? I might wake up dead.
Well, no sharing in this matter. Israel was the first place we visited together and I always felt a special attraction for H because he grew up there (I guess is the army/ tough thing). One more of my illusions that was scattered...
The answer to your question is I have no idea. I honestly cannot fit it in no matter which way I turn it. I suspect I will be sound asleep whenever she gets here.
....and?....are you planning to stay asleep the whole time she'll be there, or what?
...just kidding!
so...you are planning to live under the same roof even though, for now, G. has not made known to you what her intentions are re M? ...but I supppose you will want her to answer THAT question at some point... and go from there?
...in the meantime... keep enjoying your girls.....
Quote
NA beer is Non-Alcoholic beer. Bleech!!!
wassshhhhh.....
Quote
DD1 and I thoroughly discussed the required surgery. I assured her that with lasers, there will be no bleeding and no pain and her teddy will be up and around in a day with proper therapy.
BTW....Pio... you're a real softy, in case you didn't know it!
DD1 and I thoroughly discussed the required surgery. I assured her that with lasers, there will be no bleeding and no pain and her teddy will be up and around in a day with proper therapy.
Just being practical. If I tell her they are going to take the knife to teddy and cut him from top to bottom, rip out his guts, stuff him with a new snorer and sew him back up with a huge needle and thread, imagine what she will remember if SHE ever has to have any surgery.
We had a real struggle last night. She was holding teddy and started to cry because she didn't want to be without him for one night. I told her teddy didn't have to go and that I was only thinking of taking him so he could have a new snorer but it was up to her. Besides, I told her, I was hoping teddy would take care of me for the night so I wouldn't be all alone but that maybe teddy should stay here. Later I went upstairs, went into my room carefully making my way through the minefield of Bratz and she was sitting on the floor with teddy and DD2 was complaining that she would not play Bratz. She told me she just wanted to spend a litle more time with teddy before letting him go with me. So she took teddy and changed his underwear and put on his bunny rabbit outfit again (he is really a confused bear), put him in a baby carrier with his favorite blanket and toys and put that in the stroller so he will be comfortable.
Now I made a gaff because DD2 saw all this and decide to send her FAVORITE teddy with me. She can't live a second without that bear (which is really a rat BTW but she thinks it's a bear). I can't begin the count the cummulative hours I have spent looking for that bear just so she could go to sleep (including waking up the neighbors). Anyway I told her ratbear (okay "teddy") should stay here. She started crying. I caved and told her that ratbear could come with me and she was happy. This lasted all of about 5 minutes until she started bawling because she couldn't let the bear go and she reneged on her offer. I agreed it was best. At the 11th hour she substituted for some stuffed dog I have never even seen before (and she probably hasn't either) that I am sure has zero sentimental value. Just goes to show what DD2 thinks of me.
What I meant was, there are a lot of people WAY ahead of you in trying to reclaim Israel and THEY have weapons. AND if Israel learns of your intention to try to reclaim it, well, you could end up on CNN as your house instantly disappears at the end of a missle-cam video as the screen goes blank. Trying to reclaim Israel is serious business.
I want to be there to see the look on the chambermaid's face when she sees the stuffed toys on your pillow at the hotel.
DD (26) found her old stuffed dog just before they went overseas. He needed restorative surgery on his arm? and leg. I said I'd mend him. Every time she came over she asked if I'd mended him yet. I told her there was a long waiting list for non urgent surgery. LOL. We WERE both kidding around.
I just spent the last seven hours catching up on this thread. Man, y'all can talk!
Pio, I was at my friend's house spending time with him and his wife. I generated the nucleus of an Excel based inventory system and it now has to be populated. I also discussed buying half of his business and being responsible for high-level marketing. Here's the rub: he is a small thinker and I am a big thinker. He wants to change, to grow, but every step of the way, he fights me. If it works at all, it will take time.
Please help me. I know regreted and tear are the same person. Is larousse also part of the triumvirate?
Yes, I know inventory mangagement is best reduced to a database. Have I mentioned my friend?
Just so you know, since you've been gone, I have been DJed here multiple times. Regreted blew in and I have no idea what she said but I'm sure it wasn't good.
I posted her email address so that hopefully many people will bombard her and eventually her husband will catch it when he reviews her emails. I also posted her two screen names that I can remember against their registration numbers so that she can change screen names again but can no longer hide it without registering under a brand new email address.
Even Grownup DJed me on this thread. The nerve of her telling me I'm not perfect! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Quick recap:
Lunamare, we have discovered is at the very least a closet Italian. Larousse ran off and got engaged to a box of cracker jacks. KiwiJ is snooty. 2much - well you'll just have to read that one. I can't really break it down without missing the theme. Nams is going to Italy - maybe to see lunamare - don't know for sure. And there has been some speculation that you and bigK are the same person. Oh and Ahuman has accused me of being a French-basher of all things. And the one that I didn't mention - that is for obvious reasons if you go back and read.
Further investigation into the ToddAC / bigK issue: I have spent dozens of hours carefully analyzing both of their posts and I notice that they both have exactly the same handwriting. They dot their i's and cross their t's in exactly the same way. Highly suspiscious.
As chance would have it, I do. Non snooty definitely sounds more correct.
Todd and BigK have the same first name IRL. More evidence I feel that they are the same person. I, too, have noticed they have the same handwriting. They both appear to write in Arial 10pt.
Exactly! And remember that movie "Jagged Edge" where Glenn Close found out the truth with the typewriter that dropped that one letter? I'm tell you that ToddAC's and bigK's posts have no differences in the typography. Case closed!
I was going to mention Todd a couple days ago but...well Todd you yourself remarked how busy we've been. Hi, Todd, hope your trip was enjoyable, relaxing even.
"nams is going to Italy"...if only.
Todd & bigk are not the same person, Todd does not use LOL.
When my oldest was 3 & my middle was a baby we'd gone to visit grandparents who lived 45 minutes away. Ten minutes from home I realized (realised, for those in Brazil) a couldn't live without blanket had been left at the grandparents. I was perfectly happy to drive back to get it considering the alterative.
Here's what I didn't say about my date the other day: He never wants to marry again, doesn't see the need if children aren't part of the plan. I don't know how I feel about that because I'm 85.756% sure I want to marry again. He may be a conservative.
But, I liked him, he was easy to talk to, we enjoyed each other's company & I'm thinking I should take this one day at a time. I emailed the day after to thank him for the nice time & he wrote back saying he had a "great" time.
No Todd this a different man, the one up my sleeve. The other guy is gone & forgotten.
We didn't get that far Pio I agree there must be pain associated with his desire to not remarry. All he said was he doesn't plan to remarry because if the couple doesn't plan on children he doesn't see the need. Something to explore further should we choose to see each other again.
No Todd this a different man, the one up my sleeve. The other guy is gone & forgotten.
That makes me quite happy.
Quote
We didn't get that far Pio I agree there must be pain associated with his desire to not remarry. All he said was he doesn't plan to remarry because if the couple doesn't plan on children he doesn't see the need. Something to explore further should we choose to see each other again.
Of course, remember that men don't crawl out of the egg with the intention of growing up and getting married. The right woman has a way of changing his mind.
He recently, within the last few months got out of a 6 year relationship. I asked if the woman wanted to marry & he said yes. That tells me he's quite serious about not getting remarried.
I wonder if I enjoy this as a dating experience or do I not go any further because it appears to be a dead end.
Pio, LMAOPMP. I'm at work, yes I know using my employer's time and equipment to talk to you guys and being paid for it. So shoot me. That picture made me genuinely laugh out loud.
I don't think Pio and I are the same person because last time I looked I wasn't a 6' chemical engineer with exfoliated feet.
To be quite honest, I have been hoping that the bear was "only going through a phase". Unfortunately it has lasted more than a year. I have nightmares of the day that the bear is going to come out of the closet and announce that he really wants to be the Easter Bunny. Every parent's worst fear.
DD2's little rat/bear is in far worse condition. That bear never leaves her side. So far we have not had to do any prosthetic surgery but we have had to do corneal implants (black paint) and are dangerously close to retinal detachment. What the DDs don't know is that I have a specially kitted ER in a corner of the garage for just such emergencies. I give the bears physical exams at least once a month and generally catch any maladies before they come to the attention of the DDs. Even so, rat/bear really tests my skills.
On a different subject, apparently WW has scheduled her departure from Villahermosa for the 27th. She said she would be here on the 30th. Now you lose a day crossing the water going east. You also cannot get from Villahermosa to Mexico DF to Houston to Miami all in one day. So she must be spending a night in Mexico City or even possibly Houston. So I am still missing one day. Even so, her boarding passes and passport won't lie. I guess she just plans to "show up".
ToddAC,
You keep going around in circles on this larousse/regreted thing. Larousse is NOT regreted and I am sure she would regret it if she were. Remember that larousse is highly intelligent and much smarter than the two of us combined. Regreted does not exhibit that same behavior - if you know what I mean. AFAIK larousse has never been married / in an infidelity situation. She is here because she see MB principles as being key to a successful relationship in her future. See? I told you she was smart. Regreted haunts porn chat sites trying to pick up strangers while lying to her husband about it. All she needs is "pay pal" and she can go pro.
For the past two weeks, I get the DDs tucked in somewhere between 7:30 and 8:00 and I go to my room and pop in a DVD. I think I remember roughly 10 minutes of said DVD and then "wake up" about 10:30 to turn off the annoying noise of that menu song that repeats over and over and over. Go back to sleep having set my alarm for 3:30Am but waking up at 2:00AM worrying that I had forgotten to set my alarm (which has never happened yet). And I watch reality TV for an hour unless Cheaters happens to be on in which case I turn over to National Geographic.
Now, before you criticize me too much, remember what Benjamin Franklin is credited with saying "early to rise, early to bed, makes a man really wish he were dead". Or something along those lines.
As far as the no remarriage, I don't put too much into that. Someone recently off a breakup still feels a lot of pain. Men especially want to hole themselves up in a corner, lick their wounds, pretend they are strong and protect themselves from future hurt.
The reality is that dating the rest of your life is pretty hollow. I agree with ToddAC that the right woman will certainly change a man's mind. But timing is important too. If he is someone you want to spend more time with, go ahead and do it. I would not pressure him on the marriage thing though. Give it a few months and see how it goes.
I have not heard one word from WW. Since I arranged for the Mexico trip after-the-fact through a local travel agent in Arkansas, they are sending my sister the itinerary. I can't remember how that happened but it did. So my sister can see when she is departing Mexico to Houston but, beyond that, I am a little in the dark.
I have no clue why she is coming back other than I am sure she misses the DDs. In terms of the M, I do not know her intentions. I am fully prepared for any eventuality. If she walks in and says she wants to D, that will not drop my world out from under me. If she says she wants to try R, I will come here and vent, get whacked a few times with 2x4's and suck it up. If she comes here and pretends all is well with the world, then I will go for D.
So I see three options and I have a game plan for all of them. I was thinking about this last night and I was wondering if I was secretly hoping she would came back and say she wanted to R. I realized that I am apathetic. it just doesn't matter to me right now. I am totally disconnected from G. I felt tense the last few days so I did nothing but focus on the DDs last night. I even tolerated DD1 cheating at marbles. Even so, I almost took her. Darn it! I lost by one lousy marble!
I can't think about G much right now because I am golfing (if you know what I mean).
Y'all need some help. I don't know what kind, though. Perhaps my D15 could figure that out.
She got some test results back from state mandated tests she took last year. She flipped through three pages of results, saw that her results were all exceeded the necessary proficiency range, and announced, "I'm completely advanced."
Since she is such a smartypants and knows so blasted much about the following:
Interactions: Between Organisms and Behavior Interactions: Population Dynamics and Energy Flow Diversity: Body Systems and life Cycles Meaning Word Choice Equations and Inequalities Real World Problems
And sense the state's Dept of Education says she is Advanced in all these areas, maybe this should be her first big real-life challenge......figuring out what sort of help y'all need. Then, she can make the needed psychiatrist and psychologist appts for you.
Her first taks is to explain in layman's terms what you said. It is way beyond me. Do you speak English, by any chance? Don't forget I'm just a poor old country boy from Arkansas. Even so, we were the most progressive family in our town. We were the first family to have carpeting in our bathroom. We liked it SO much that we decided to carpet from the bathroom all the way up to the house.
Get her to post. I think it is obvious ToddAC and I have no clue.
On the other hand, don't be talkin bout my kin. In Arkansas, we don't have ancestors - we have incestors.
My sister was 20 years old and about to get married. All was going great and we were at the rehearsal dinner having a good time and somehow the groom's father learned that my sister was a virgin. He stood up at the dinner and angrily announced that the wedding was off. The groom was dumbstruck and my sister was in tears. The groom pleaded with his father and asked why he had called off the wedding. He loved my sister and couldn't live without her. The father replied "son, your bride-to-be is a 20 years old virgin. If she ain't good enough for her own family, she ain't good enough for ours!".
Helen Clark was on David Letterman tonight. It suprised me how young she is. Also, she is very beautiful. Apparently, she is in NY to hear the nuke-head speak to the UN.
Yes, she was introduced as the NZ PM by Letterman. Very tall, leggy blond. She really held Letterman close and kissed him for a long time. Probably 28-30.
I know you are getting your 45 minutes requisite sleep. I am heading out for Bahrain and will be back in about 36 hours from the time stamp on this post. I am on a three day long weekend (will be spending it at the house with the DDs) so if you need to email me, please use the hotmail. Our exchange server does not seem to update on weekends so I cannot check the other mail reliably from the house.
Now I am headed off to check teddy in for open-bear surgery.
Well my scrapbooking materials still haven't arrived but, in preparation, I have oiled the bearings on the table saw and realigned the fence. Changed the blade on the jig saw (a bit of trial and error here I am afraid because I don't know which tooth will work best). I put a new air cleaner on the compressor and recalibrated the gauge. I have been practicing with the 1/8" brass brads and, so far, I can get about 3/4" penetration into concrete so I need to back the pressure down. Again, some experimentation required.
I changed the blade on the circular saw to a much finer tooth (new blade also).
I was now curious enough to google Helen Clark. All I can think is: have you been hitting the Maker's Mark again? That's the only explaination that occurs to me.
Needless to say, I voted for her. I also applauded until my hands got blisters when she came and gave a speech in the quad at the campus.
She is an old alumni of our Department and I respect her greatly. She has beautiful skin.
Last night the movie on TV was West Side Story and today in the quad they had the Hispanic Club playing Spanish music etc, etc. I told you all that Hispanic was not a term used in this country but they had a banner that was at least 20ft long and 20ft high saying "Hispanic Club" so I may have been wrong.
Her opposition, as I've mentioned in another thread, has just been caught having an A on his affair wife.
Helen and her H are a geeky academic couple but there's not been a breath of scandal about them (apart from the latest from the opposition, trying to say her H is gay). What a load of tripe. He teaches here at the university and yes, he could be called a bit of a nerd, but he's not gay.
Red Alert! Red Alert! Check out Pio's nails in the shot of the bear/rabbit. I'm quite sure he's wearing clear nail polish. I hope I'm wrong.
LOVE the carpet & virgin jokes. Is the ability to make jokes a genetic enhancement after all the inbreeding?
The date & his lack of desire to remarry. He was married for 13 years, has been divorced for 10 years, been in one long term relationship, six years, which he broke off a couple of months ago. In part, I believe, because she wanted to marry.
This concern of mine feels a bit premature, sort of. If he never wants to remarry, & it seems disrepectful to not take him at his word, but I most probably do, where's the sense in moving forward.
OTOH, what's wrong with dating a man I found interesting & likable just for the company? Does doing this create potential attachment issues for me?
Thinking about remarriage at this point in a relationship we don't even have feels a little creepy. But, not thinking about how this might go down the road seems unresponsible.
My OS had half a day of school & called me at the pottery studio to come home, he was bored. I pack up my work thinking WOW, how lucky am I, my 16 year old son wants to spend time with his mom! I hurry home to find him chatting on the phone with a friend. So I'll wait then we'll go out for an ice coffee.
Not much....recovering from my 'hosting' duties over the weekend....just realized one advantage to this....I have enough left-overs so don't have to cook for several days!
So....your man 'up the sleeve' what's to have children with you so he can be married?....did I get that right?.....LOL!
..ice coffee???....what the heck is that??
..and we are counting on your being back!
Quote
Where is the post with Pio's nail polish? Missed it.
I missed that, too, Todd....I only recall Pio trying to ex-foliate his feet.....with not much success!
Quote
Nevermind, just found it. My comment is this: why is it surprising that Pio wears nail polish?
Boy, Todd...that was quick.....you must be good at using the MB search 'engine'.....BTW....where would the motor be?
Now we know the real reason why Pio was using a Dremel tool on his feet: he was using the tool to remove the polish. As a chemist, he knows that nail polish remover is not good for you.
I'm just back from the track & I thought of Pio while I was there. There was a soccer game going on with what appeared to be 8 year olds or there abouts. As the game is being played one boy was lying down on the field pretending to swim, a girl was dancing along one of the lines on the field, an other boy was on his back kicking his leags around in the air.
There was only one coach & boy did I feel sorry for him.
Well Todd, I guess Pio could be conducting some chemical experiment with the nail polish but it looks more like he's been to a SPA.
Todd weren't you going to have another talk with your WW about the possibility of reconciliation?
So luna, all the cleaning was worth the effort because you got left overs?
Here's my latest thinking about the man from the date on Sun: I'm sick & tired ("tired always follwed sick in our house" ten points if you can name who said that) of going on first dates. Most have resulted in nothing more a couple in another date then nothing more. So, when this guy & I had a good date & we both said we'd like to see each other again I wanted to even though he's not a good fit for what I think I want.
I wanted someone & he was looking pretty good. It's not a good idea to go ahead & risk getting attached only to see that down the road what we want for our futures couldn't be further apart.
Welcome back ToddAC, missed ya, hope you enjoyed your geek escape. I agree with whoever said to buy the friends business...why would you want to partner with someone who fights you all the way???? Isn't that why we are all here? Am I on the wrong board?
BK, Luv your sense of humor!
Nams, I give you great respect and a certificate of courage...can't even imagine going back to dating...if I D, I swear I'm going to be a missionary or something. Although I detest loneliness almost as much as organic chemistry and symbolic logic...I think I'd rather determine my own fate than have someone helping with that. Not sure I'll be able to trust anyone again after this nightmare. Kudos to you. Don't settle just cuz you are tired. If you are brave enough to be out there then hold out for what you want, you deserve it.
Luna, I'm jealous...I love parties almost as much as leftovers...I love not cooking the best! Glad it all went well.
Kiwi...how snooty are you really? My guess is it's all for show and you are really very down to earth. Am I dead wrong?
Pio, Soccer coach...my H did 4 years of coaching and this is the very first year he has not...it made my kids sad but at least he is going to the games after 6 months of nothing.
Tell the truth, you buff your nails or get manicures right? Nothing wrong with well groomed hands...just don't branch out to your favorite, the French manicure...frog fingers
You should have some kind of plan for G's return...you have plenty of time to think and prepare. I saw your 3 options and I understand you apathy but I think once she is back in your space you will have lots of feelings and emotions and should be prepared to handle them. I believe you are living through the toughest challenge right now; the unknown. At least when G returns you will have some direction to start moving toward.
I am currently loosing my mind keeping my deal with you...as if I had much to loose! New issues brewing if you can believe that but I am sitting on it for now...I am going to look back at LA posts b/c I think she mentions my new issue as common in recovery...just when you think things can't get any more interesting or challenging...you turn a corner and the view is very different
So, when this guy & I had a good date & we both said we'd like to see each other again I wanted to even though he's not a good fit for what I think I want.
Nams, why did I add bold to the selected phrase? You answered your own question.
Particularly in the early stages of a relationship, we wage a war between our emotions and our logic. This is the prime time to listen to your logical side. He doesn't want to get married again. He just broke off a six year relationship because he didn't want to get married. You, OTOH, do want to get marrued,
Danger Will Robinson.
Nams, this has trouble written all over it. Sometimes you can change people but most of the time you cannot. Don't bet a relationship and potentially years of your life on a gamble that you can change him.
[quote] It's not a good idea to go ahead & risk getting attached only to see that down the road what we want for our futures couldn't be further apart.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Quote
I don't know...sigh...
Nams you do know. You choose to fight your logical side with your emotional side. Don't.
Welcome back ToddAC, missed ya, hope you enjoyed your geek escape.
Thanks 2much. Good to be back. Yes, enjoyed my "geek" escape.
The phrase welcome back reminds me of Welcome Back Kotter. Do you remember that TV show? At the beginning of each show, Gabe Kaplan would tell his television wife a joke in the form of a story. This is my favorite.
He went back to visit his old neighborhood and he happened upon Mr. Schulman who ran the shoe repair store. Gabe went in and Mr. Schulman said he remembered him. They caught up and traded a few stories. Then Gabe opened his wallet and pulled out a claim check for a pair of shoes he had dropped off much earlier. Look Mr. Schulman, this is for a pair of shoes that I left here for repair in 1983. I'll go ahead and pick them up. Mr. Schulman went to the back and came back empty handed. He quipped: They will be ready next Thursday.
Quote
I agree with whoever said to buy the friends business...why would you want to partner with someone who fights you all the way????
He is only interested in selling half the business. I think he will come around; it will just take longer than I had thought. The problem is one of control. He likes to massage every little piece of the business and knows that if I grow it in a big way, he won't be able to do so. Comfort level concerns and all that.
Anyway, there is a lot of potential in the business. He mismanages it but has the right industry contacts and good products along with contract manufacturing which is an excellent sign.
Kiwi...how snooty are you really? My guess is it's all for show and you are really very down to earth.
er, taking the bit about me out of 2much's post and nothing else. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Todd and Pio have mentioned their backgrounds which seems ok to do if you have survived odds against you and made a success of yourself but sounds like bragging or posing if you have a different background.
My background is: My dad was an attorney (solicitor here) in a top NZ law firm. My mum was a stay at home mum. Money was never a worry in our house and I went to a private girls' school from 5 onwards. I grew up without a worry in the world and with a great, loving, supportive family.
When I left school it was the first time I'd ever come into contact with anyone with a different background from mine.
But, you're right, I didn't fit in with the girls who've gone on to be "ladies that lunch", although not many of them are - most of them have very good careers. I was always too down to earth and couldn't be bothered with all the striving after material things.
The main legacy of it all is the "voice". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Best example I can give is that most New Zealander's would say "emma chizzit?" for "how much is it?" I say "how much is it".
It's funny because Robby once took off my accent brilliantly on Idiotville (we've spoken on the phone). I do say "ekkadimic" for "academic" as he pointed out but I didn't think it was that noticeable and he couldn't for the life of him work out what I was saying when I said "guitar". Apparently, I was pronouncing it "kittar". And I talk proper, so you can imagine what the rest of the country sounds like.
I also don't use expressions like "Crikey" and "Mate" and "g'day". I say "goodness me" (or sh** LOL) and "friend" and "good morning." I'm sure it's the same in the States, it's not just how you say it but what you say.
You are not going to challenge my claim that the American South speaks the King's English? Okay, not the King's English, but close. Also, a little known fact is that the Southern accent (actually a drawl) is the closet American accent to a British accent. Now my American friends, before you laugh, think this through and it will make sense.
Jen, I lived in the People's Republic of Massachussets for two years and will teach the group some Bostonese. Just say the letters:
P S D S
Can anyone figure out what this means?
And here is a little Jeff Foxworthy humor. Do you know who he is?
If you think Taco Bell is the Mexican Phone Company, you just might be a redneck.
I was listening to a Jeff Foxworthy piece on the car radio on the way home the other night. I'd heard it before but it was still laugh out loud funny.
I've just been consulting Bill Bryson again in "Mother Tongue."
Here's what he says about NC and SC.
People in SC say "vegetubbles" but in NC it's "vegetibbles". North Carolinians give themselves away when they say "She's still in the bed" and "Let's do this one at the time."
Research on dialects in North America found there were 78 names for the dragonfly, 130 names for oak trees and 176 names for dustballs under the bed.
He also says you can find out where almost any English speaking person in the world is from by their pronunciation of cot, caught, cart, bomb, balm, oil, house, horse, good and water.
Todd, you can't live in the South....because I do. Well, maybe you can....but I bet you still live a gazillion miles from me. I've only met 1 MBer who lives w/in hours of me.
Kiwi - I'm sure you talk most properly. However, I found people from NZ even harder to understand than people from Australia. I think the dialect is a bit 'heavier' or more pronounced.
That having been said, I have had people almost argue with me over my accent. Some say there is no way I can be from here. You wouldn't believe the variety of places they think I come from. Always amazes me. But there really is quite a bit of difference in the regional lables given to things in the US. In Tennessee, you can really tell an Upper East Tennessee native from a Middle or West Tennessee native. There is quite a Gaelic influence in the hills of upper ET.
LMAOPMP BigK. Oh yes, sex, the Aussies find that hilarious. And I'll remember to order seex dollars worth of feesh and cheeps next time.
We say sex instead of six (apparently <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) And pin instead of pen which can cause confusion when you ask a foreigner for a pen to write something down.
Cinders, sorry you couldn't understand us down here. It's a plot you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Or as my buddy in Boston says: People from Oklahomer sure talk funny.
As for SC and NC, or any other state, it is not that simple. I can name three cities in SC where the accent is very different. In my own state, we have what we call the "Atlanta accent". Very refined and cultured of course. Not surprising considering that Atlanta is a business and educational center. I was born and raised in Georgia and have lived here my entire life except for my military duty and being held POW in the People's Republic of Massaschussets. There are people in the North Georgia mountains whom I cannot understand. I can pick up every fifth or sixth word, that's it. In our former home, crews from N. Ga. would drive thru in their trucks full of pine straw (landscape mulch), ring your door bell and asked if you wanted pine straw. The first time I answered the door, I thought and concentrated and then asked: "What?" He finally called another guy from the truck to try. I understood every second or third word that he said and quickly calculated that was the best I was going to do. The parts I didn't understand were the prices. I paid $400.00 for pine straw that day. Yes, learned my lesson.
And here's a little trivia about Chicago. Might as well offend everyone. Chicago has only two seasons: winter and the Fourth of July.
PSDS = pierced ears. It is exactly how they say it in Boston.
While I'm on a roll. At a family wedding recently there were two young American men (in their 20s) invited. We thought it would be very funny to say to them we'd heard they were from Noo Joisey.
Apparently you pronounce it "Noo Jarrsey". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I could understand you...Just had to listen carefully.
Had a fabulous CocaCola - made w/ cane sugar/syrup instead of corn sugar/syrup. Thought it lots better than what we have.
One of the funniest signs I have ever seen was in front of a construction site where they were, apparently, building an office building. It said "Another erection by BloMax." I thought I would die. I laughed so hard the construction workers looked at me like I was crazy.
BTW, do they call them dustbunnies because they look like bunnies or because they multiply so quickly?
Are you aware that breeding of rabbits follows a Fibonacci number sequence? A Fibonacci sequence is a series of positive integers in which the successive value of an integer is the sum of the immediately preceding two integers, hence the series, as an example: 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55 etc.
Wasn't Georgia a Penal colony too Todd? (Like Australia)?
No, that would be the Mayflower and the People's Republic of Massachusetts.
Georgia was founded by James Oglethorpe who brought a few dozen families to Georgia. The families were all members of England's underclass by Oglethorpe's design. He wanted to remove the stigma of societal classes as existed in England. All the people were wholesome, hard-working and decent. Again, his design.
Speaking of design, Oglethorpe also laid out the design for Savannah which is quite beautiful.
Are you familiar with Savannah? Did you see the movie or read the book entitled, "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil"? Since that book/movie, so many people have moved to Savannah from all over the country and have driven historical home prices through the roof.
If you are even mildly interested, click the below link and then click Scenic Tour.
The Mayflower, as I'm sure you know, did not bring convicts.
Depends on whose history book you read...
It is commonly believed, even in this country, that the Mayflower delegation were the first settlers in America. Not the case. Jamestown, Virginia was founded at least a decade before the People's Republic of Massachusetts.
And the oldest city in America is in Florida.
"And now you tell me Billie Joe's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge"
"And now you tell me Billie Joe's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge"
Why????? Why did Billie Joe jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge????
That has worried me since I was 16? years old.
Because Billy Joe got Bobby Gentry pregnant and they threw the baby off the bridge. Billy Joe couldn't live with himself. Now, notice that not only did Bobby Gentry not kill herself, she even wrote and recorded a song about the experience and made a lot of money. She is the greatest example of why I am afraid of womens. Cold.
It's always been the myth/legend about the song that it was a baby they threw off the bridge but I don't think anyone really knows for sure do they?
There are almost as many interpretations of that song as American Pie. I have heard that one interpretation is that "Billie" Joe, as opposed to Billy Joe is really a girl and that the song tells the story of young lesbian love. Not borne out by the facts however.
In the event that someone wants to know, below are the song lyrics. And Pio is not even here to ignore them.
It was the third of June, another sleepy, dusty Delta day I was out choppin' cotton and my brother was balin' hay And at dinner time we stopped and walked back to the house to eat And Mama hollered out the back door "Y'all remember to wipe your feet" And then she said "I got some news this mornin' from Choctaw Ridge" "Today Billie Joe MacAllister jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge"
And Papa said to Mama as he passed around the blackeyed peas "Well, Billie Joe never had a lick of sense, pass the biscuits, please" "There's five more acres in the lower forty I've got to plow" And Mama said it was shame about Billie Joe, anyhow Seems like nothin' ever comes to no good up on Choctaw Ridge And now Billie Joe MacAllister's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge
And Brother said he recollected when he and Tom and Billie Joe Put a frog down my back at the Carroll County picture show And wasn't I talkin' to him after church last Sunday night? "I'll have another piece of apple pie, you know it don't seem right" "I saw him at the sawmill yesterday on Choctaw Ridge" "And now you tell me Billie Joe's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge"
And Mama said to me "Child, what's happened to your appetite?" "I've been cookin' all morning and you haven't touched a single bite" "That nice young preacher, Brother Taylor, dropped by today" "Said he'd be pleased to have dinner on Sunday, oh, by the way" "He said he saw a girl that looked a lot like you up on Choctaw Ridge" "And she and Billie Joe was throwing somethin' off the Tallahatchie Bridge"
A year has come 'n' gone since we heard the news 'bout Billie Joe And Brother married Becky Thompson, they bought a store in Tupelo There was a virus going 'round, Papa caught it and he died last Spring And now Mama doesn't seem to wanna do much of anything And me, I spend a lot of time pickin' flowers up on Choctaw Ridge And drop them into the muddy water off the Tallahatchie Bridge.
Why????? Why did Billie Joe jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge????
That has worried me since I was 16? years old.
Kiwi, I was 16 several fews of years before you were, and now I'm depressed. Has it really been that long since I puzzled over that same question myself? In between play times with my pet dinosaurs, of course... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
The rumor in Hawaii was that it was a baby. We didn't hear the lesbian scenario. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> At least not on the church school campus! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
This concern of mine feels a bit premature, sort of. If he never wants to remarry, & it seems disrepectful to not take him at his word, but I most probably do, where's the sense in moving forward.
Don't ever take a man at his word. We are often wrong.
Quote
OTOH, what's wrong with dating a man I found interesting & likable just for the company?
Okay I'm back from Bahrain. Because it is the last weekened before Ramadan, there were no 5 star hotels available so I got a 4 star hotel. Only one less star, I am thinking to myself. Kind of like NZ in relation to Austraila and KiwiJ thinks NZ is okat so I go for it. I soon find out that the difference between a 5 star and a 4 star hotel in Bahrain is that a 5 star hotel has in-house doctors and a 4 star hotel has in-house hookers.
It was almost impossible to sleep because they knocked on the door about every 15 minutes up till about 1:00AM. My friend and I went to the Hard Rock Cafe and had a couple of beers and some seriously good pork. We went back to the hotel and looked at the Syrian bar, thought better of it, and decided to try the Russian bar.
Now the Russian bar was just strange - kind of like the hotel. Imagine a Robert Palmer video of "Simply Irrestible" without Robert Palmer. This is more or less the picture. 4 or sometimes 5 Russian women dancing on the stage to rock music. I never really understood what the drill was but there was a waitress walking about with two arms full of plastic phosphorescent Hawaiian leis. We called her over and asked what the leis were for and she said that, for 10 BD, we could buy a lei for a particular girl and it was a "tip" for dancing so well. Well I am somewhat ashamed to say it but I lei'ed two Russian women last night. It sounds a lot worse when you say it.
Anyway, I decided that I missed my DDs very much and I was desperate to get home so I left the Russian women behind and came home. I'll never go back there again. I think I'll stick with 5 stars in the future. And no, I did not cheat on my WW - not even in my heart.
I'm worried because I don't want to become emotionally attached with a man who doesn't envision the same future I do. Simply, I don't want to get hurt nor do I want to hurt him. We could date, enjoy each other's company, VERY tempting. But building a growing attachment to a man who has clearly stated he intends to never remarry looks like I'm begging to be hurt. Let's see, I think I'll run my finger close to this candle flame just to feel a bit of heat...
I would NEVER get involved with the intention of trying to change him. It's disrespectfull. Thankfully I don't have that trait many women seem to have.
I'm battling with my heart & my head, which Todd pointed out. I'd like to share my life with someone, this guy is half what I want so why not test the waters, I say to myself. My other half pipes up to say because down the road this difference will come back, you'll both be hurt, it's wasted time. Back & forth between the but I want...& the but it's a dead end. Big sigh...
"youse guys" is typical N.J. speak.
NO NUMBERS!
You sound surprised Kiwi that American cuture is taking over the world. It's part of a plan to get others addicted to our way of life & our desire for stuff then rake in the money for selling "that". Oh, that & spreading democracy 'cause we know best.
I've always wanted to visit Savanah & the Smokey Mountains but I'm concerned I might be considered cold & rude because I'm from the home of proper English.
Now Todd, this general assumption of women being cold & as a consequence you fear, them has got to stop.
I could [censored] u me all men are idjeots & will grow their hair long, buy motor cycles, get tatoos, have girl friends while married. I could further [censored] u me all men will have a MLC, run away instead of work on a relationship, believe the grass is greener on the other side. But if I do that who's left for me to have a relationship with? Scary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
Okay this is good. I just read an email from WW asking for money. I am tempted to ask her why she can't ask pool boy for money. I didn't. I just asked her how much she needed monthly and whether she had a job yet.
cubed beef which had been sauteed in olive oil, red wine (Australian Shiraz) & garlic black beans red beans chick peas secret spices
Later my boys & I will enjoy "chili". I put chili in quotes because I know some people get positively rabid over what constitutes chile. Especially those southern types.
Pio, if g is returning to SA why does she want money? Did you ask why she wants it? Are you asking her if she's gotten a job in Mexico or SA?
I'm thinking far ahead because I see consequences to the possibility of a relationship. I know it seems premature but I don't want to move forward if there seems a likelyhood for hurt.
You had what? one date? And you already mapped out all the permutations of your future? Chill already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The money request is a non sequitur. If she is coming back soon, she could send her sister the money herself. I think it is an odd request. If she were planning on staying a while, it would make more sense.
My plan is to keep my mouth shut. I will wait to see what she says. I am going through a difficult time and I am asking myself a lot of questions that maybe I shouldn't. My best plan is to say notthing and see what she has to offer.
I have been advised to swallow the "2much" pill. So I may have to take my own medicine. Gee I hate that.
Pio - Which is a better place for a woman to work - Bahrain or Kuwait? I have a chance to go to either one for a year, and am just wondering. I would be working with our government.
There are not many places on earth I have refused to work but Kuwait was one of them. Bahrain is very nice. Until Dubai came of age about 10 years ago, Bahrain was the jewel of the Middle East. I can tell you very many bad things about Kuwait if you are interested. It is also a very dangerous place - and not from terrorists. Bahrain is very open. There is a lot to do and you can have beer if you want it. This one is a no-brainer. I would only consider Kuwait if you get a hazardous duty differential. Kuwait should be at least a 1.6 multiplier. I believe that is what the service companies use for Kuwait. Bahrain would be either a 1.0 or 1.2 multiplier.
I've always wanted to visit Savanah & the Smokey Mountains but I'm concerned I might be considered cold & rude because I'm from the home of proper English.
ToddAC clears his throat.
Quote
Now Todd, this general assumption of women being cold & as a consequence you fear, them has got to stop.
Where is the preface to "Fools Die"? I know it's around here somewhere.
Quote
I could [censored] u me all men are idjeots
And we would aqree on this. Men are swayed way too much by womens while womens.....where is that thermostat?
Getting a job would make more sense if she were planning on staying in SA?
Getting a job would make sense if she stays in Mexico. Women are not allowed to work in Saudi Arabia. Well, that is not quite true. They are now trying to get women to work certain jobs. Just recently they have tried to recruit women to work in lingerie stores without much success. Gemela could not get a job here in SA as an expat.
Because drug and alcohol abuse are way out of control. The locals view ALL expat women as prostitutes. It is routine to have women kidnapped, taken to the desert and, well, what more do you want to know? I don't mean to make the Kuwaits sound prejudiced. They are also equally happy kidnapping little boys, taking them to the desert and...
Yes - the Kuwaitis are equal opportunity molesters.
If you are in military housing you should be okay in Kuwait.
Bahrain is the home of the 5th (I think) fleet and the Bahrainis are very open and friendly. The only danger in Bahrain is on the weekends when it fills up with Saudis who go there for the alcohol and the prostitutes. The drunken Saudis are a menace. As of September 1st, Bahrain has changed its weekend to Friday-Saturday. Oh, you can also get (very expensive) pork in Budaiyah, Bahrain. There is a good golf course at the Riffa CC. Plenty of water sports. It has a very large expat community.
I was just looking over what I missed. Why is it thndrnltng only does drivebys?
It occurred to me that we have Aussies, Kiwis, Italians, an occasional Brasilian, Americans, a Dutchy (nams) and a Frenchie (Ahuman). It seems we lost the Mexican (larousse). Such cultural diversity. Truly amazing.
And of course we have ToddAC and I who have no culture whatsoever.
I flipped back all the way to page 213 to learn what lei’ing a Russian woman meant. Twice. Thought I might pick up a tip or two to show Mrs. Bigger. Big disappointment.
I spent time in Bahrain years ago. What I found strange was that BOYS learned self-defense and rape prevention tricks in school but not the girls.
You guys are a hoot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
by Bigger: I spent time in Bahrain years ago. What I found strange was that BOYS learned self-defense and rape prevention tricks in school but not the girls.
Isnt that where Michael Jackson wanted to live? Coincidence? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
My favorite post is still the one with Todd wondering if Pio was very 'tender' after nursing the cat back to health for a week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The Lai is good, but the cat thing made me cry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
'Hoot' is Texan, as far as I know. My mothers family is from Atlanta, I LOVE their drawl... My grandmother cursed William Tecumseh Sherman till she died! I had Gone with the Wind memorized by the time I was five.
AFAIK Michael Jackson recorded his latest album in Bahrain and is having some legal issues over it. The ideal place for MJ to live is Thailand. Do I need to explain why?
I am very real and only Drucilla <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. I'm sure I can find some vets to vouch for me! But nevermind, Ill leave you to play amongst yourselves - Dru
My grandmother cursed William Tecumseh Sherman till she died!
Hi Dru,
Historical revisionists are busy at work rewriting Sherman's seige and burning of Atlanta. The "new" history has it that Willie and his troops did not kill innocent civilians, rape women or burn down homes and businesses. If that is the case, why are there no buildings in Atlanta that pre-date 1865?
Anyway, my grandmother did the same with Willie T. Almost everyday of her life.
Quote
'Hoot' is Texan, as far as I know.
Surpringly, hoot is Australian but repackaged in Georgia.
AFAIK Michael Jackson recorded his latest album in Bahrain and is having some legal issues over it. The ideal place for MJ to live is Thailand. Do I need to explain why?
I understand that Michael Jackson and John Mark Carr have become pen pals.
Well I am relieved actually. My Spanish is poor enough that I thought regreted was actually your WW. But you are saying that regreted posted a previous post entered by WW?
If so, regreted, you are one sick cookie and should seek professional help, if nothing else to learn to tell the truth.
regreted is a strange Mexican woman who is copying my wife's posts on MB here for reasons known only to her. Regreted is a serial internet porn cheater who believes she can save her marriage by lying to her husband about her affairs. I have recommended to her to tell the truth. She doesn't like that idea.
regreted is indeed very sick and does need serious counseling. I hope she is able to find it. regreted has also destroyed her husband's life. He also needs help.
Nams, what are you THINKING? Men see that predatory look in a woman's eye and they run a MILE. All men secretly think that women are out to hook them and get married. A woman's secret is to do that WITHOUT LETTING THEM KNOW.
You should be enjoying this man's company, he sounds very nice, not planning your future with him. He made a throwaway remark about not seeing the need to get married unless he planned to have children. That didn't mean he didn't ever want to get married in the future.
Hi there....I know I know....delayed 'postings' like mine must make some of the 'regulars' feel like yesterday was weeks ago!...wouldn't be surprised if some of you may no longer even remember what I am referring to.....never mind the TIMING! ....particularly in the case of my attempts at some 'humour'
.....I guess I don't have as much FREE time as some of you! LOL.
I wanted someone & he was looking pretty good. It's not a good idea to go ahead & risk getting attached only to see that down the road what we want for our futures couldn't be further apart.
....you may need to take more 'calculated' risks.... ask Pio to lend you his super duper spreadsheet to do that....being an engineer and all.. ...it's at least what I thought.... Todd seems to think Pio is a chemist....
Pio?? are you both a chemist and an engineer? are you a chemical engineer? Would you straighten me out please!
Quote
Nams, I give you great respect and a certificate of courage...can't even imagine going back to dating...if I D, I swear I'm going to be a missionary or something. Although I detest loneliness almost as much as organic chemistry and symbolic logic...I think I'd rather determine my own fate than have someone helping with that. Not sure I'll be able to trust anyone again after this nightmare. Kudos to you. Don't settle just cuz you are tired. If you are brave enough to be out there then hold out for what you want, you deserve it.
2much....you are giving Nams some great advice.....I think I will take it...with your permission...
Quote
just don't branch out to your favorite, the French manicure...frog fingers
However, 2much, just so you know, although I am Italian and write in English, I do live in a francophone ZONE - Quebec (home life is in French) - and am sensitive to French bashing...although I should not be because I never lived in France...just visited it (LOLROF!!!)
Quote
You should have some kind of plan for G's return...you have plenty of time to think and prepare.
2much...I hope Pio takes your advice.....because I have been after him about this...without success!
Kiwi,
Quote
LMAOPMP
...for the life of me....can't figure out what this would be. Can you help? Laughing Myself A....On....P...M....P...
Quote
And me, I spend a lot of time pickin' flowers up on Choctaw Ridge And drop them into the muddy water off the Tallahatchie Bridge.
Well, Todd...for me this is the CLUE:she and Billie were throwing flowers over the bridge that day.....while she was breaking up with Billie..... and Billie was so broken hearted he killed himself over it..
Quote
My friend and I went to the Hard Rock Cafe and had a couple of beers
So..Pio...you took my advice after all. Hope it wasn't NA!
Quote
Now Todd, this general assumption of women being cold & as a consequence you fear, them has got to stop.
You tell him...Nams...
Pio....
Quote
My plan is to keep my mouth shut.
Here's a suggestion that might help...put an elastic band around your wrist and everytime you want to speak.....pinch yourself with it....as a reminder of YOUR plan!
I haven't tried the technique...but it's been said to work...not too sure if this works when dealing with a WS!
Well, Todd...for me this is the CLUE:she and Billie were throwing flowers over the bridge that day.....while she was breaking up with Billie..... and Billie was so broken hearted he killed himself over it..
Australian wine is actually from Oregon and Washington. It is simply relabeled for marketing purposes. Little known fact.
Todd...how's that?...wouldn't be considered 'false representation'? ...how do they get around that? ...don't tell me.... they imported the VINES from Australia!
Quote
If I moved to Bahrain, I would spend 3-4 hours a day on the causeway.
Pio..'cuse me for not knowing.....but to avoid having to lose any sleep over it... what is a 'causeway'?
Quote
Luna, LMAOPMP is laughing my a** off peeing my pants. Very classy
Thanks Kiwi....I see...I was missing a bit of imagination!
Quote
Or killed herself, as the case may be.
Now, Todd, I haven't gone back to check the lyrics... (not as quick as you with the 'search' engine).... but I do recall him being highlighted in bold..... so....it could not have been a her.... I rest my case (or do I need to go back to the lyrics?)
......uhmmmmm.....am I now actually up to date and, inspite of the time zones, are 'aligned' with some confreres via this thread?
....I am going to see.....pushing my OK, SUBMIT button
Hi Luna! OK let me see what I can do to come off as less hysterical here.
I had one date with a man who interests me. We both said we'd like to see each other again. I thought great! Out of many first dates here's someone I'd LIKE to see again VS yeah, ok, we'll see what happens on a second date. Fine & dandy, no problems, he goes to Italy we see each other when he returns.
I'm NOT planning on marrying this man, don't want to marry this man, gawd, I were even thinking along those lines I should be locked up.
It's quite simple: Should I continue to see a man who has clearly said he doesn't want to remarry when it's likely I do? Do I continue to see him, get to know him, develop a relationship then be hurt if I want marriage & he doesn't? Or do I nip it in the bud now so as not to end up in that position?
I know I could casually date him, see if we even like each other. I did mention he's conservative so there's always the chance this won't go any where any way. After a few dates we may decide fagetaboutit. Fine, no harm done another learning experience. But if it goes the other way...well you get the picture.
We can drop this now that I look like I'm ready to run to the alter with a man I don't even now.
Todd...how's that?...wouldn't be considered 'false representation'? ...how do they get around that? ...don't tell me.... they imported the VINES from Australia!
No, not the vines, just the seedlings. It is done all the time. Have you heard about the bagged spinach fiasco? It has come out that the same producer/packager in California bags spinach for Dole as well as other companies. The Buick that you drive probably has a Chevrolet engine. And here's the real kicker: Juan Valdez is from NYC, not Colombia. It's a global economy; labels don't mean much anymore.
Quote
Now, Todd, I haven't gone back to check the lyrics... (not as quick as you with the 'search' engine).... but I do recall him being highlighted in bold..... so....it could not have been a her.... I rest my case (or do I need to go back to the lyrics?)
I agree that Bill(ie) Joe is a he. The person who wrote that Bill(ie) instead of Bill(y) Joe must be a girl hence young lesbian love is ignorant of Southern idioms and spellings. Billie is perfectly acceptable for a boy's name, especially in Mississippi.
On second thought, wait a minute, where is Bill(y) Jean King from?
Well if I read between the lines, regreted's husband now knows the whole truth about her affairs. Now he can make his choices based on the truth. I am glad that regreted told him the whole truth. Good for her.
I was improving my relationship I told piojitos that I want to do stronger my love bank in order to not disapeared it wiht my hole truth... I was building that love bank...
regreted,
You have it backwards. You don't build your love bank to be able to tell the truth; telling the truth is a prerequisite to building your love bank.
Rest assured that everyone in this thread is aware that Pio is not a pefect person. There are no perfect people regreted. We expect candor and honesty. Short of that, we are not much help.
Regreted, I am going to go back to what you said about both your BH and you having dominant personalities. You have to choose what your goal is. If you want to be "dominant" and that is your primary goal, fine. If you want to save your marriage, back up and try to think about the big picture. You strike me as a person who always has a need to be "right". You need to sort out what your goals are.
It's not lesbian love Todd. It just isn't. I just know it isn't.
Oh, I know Jen. I simply marvel at the world today and how so many try to fit unrelated situations into their own philosophy or preferences.
Me? I am simple. I long for the days when professional tennis players could whack a tennis ball without grunting. How did John Newcombe do it? Amazing.
Let's start the MelodyLane debate again. Did I have the right to (re)post regreted's email so people could tell her H the truth? I have no idea what he got sent but I hope people sent him regreted's graphic posts of her A.
You really need to do some homework. Google Arkansas. We can't even spell "aristocracy"
LOL Pio
Oh, to answer above. It was pretty obvious from the way I'd talked about Rob that he wasn't going to kill me or harm me. I think Mel did the right thing.
However, we don't really know what the truth of regreted's situation is. It's always dangerous with the internet. Who knows what the real truth is.
I was trying to find out how long could I stay away from MB. (Talk about addictions) Then I saw Regreted posts...
Regreted, I'm sorry you are in pain but one of the main concepts of MB is that affairs grow in secrecy and the BS or BW has a right to know what's going on with his marriage.
You are not the first that has taken G posts as another version to Pio's situation, I made the same mistake. Maybe G posts have some true in them but they are mainly the posts of a WW woman trying to justify her affair.
I've read most of your posts and you confirmed to me that you had been in contact with 3 men, not 2. The details of the affairs, how long, what they involved... are not as important as the fact that there is adultery, emotional, physical of both. I believe you have a right to tell as much as you want about your situation on the forums but you have tried to gain support manipulating the information about your situation.
I think that Pio was trying to point out to you that sexual fullfilment was not the main problem in your marriage, just that. After a while of posting in the forums other posters hold us accountable for our mistakes and weakness.
Regreted you are making a fool of yourself reacting with so mean words. I think you need MB and you look for their acceptance and comments in the forums but you are just making your situation more difficult.
Look, Todd called me a toad and he thinks I'm you when in reality Kiwi's me and I'm still here. There's a lot of words games here but are mainly done to enjoy ourselves.
Or do I nip it in the bud now so as not to end up in that position?
...I would go for 'nip it in the bud'.......but before doing that.....why not ask him how he ended up with that decision about his life? .... is it possible he may WANT to but has written it off...because he got burned?.... why does he only see the combination marriage + children? ...got nothing to lose if you are considering not continuing seeing him......
Nams? Is Pio right? One date? Might need to learn to stay 'detached' over a few dates..... at least enough time to 'figure out' a person.....that is, if the initial 'chemistry' is there.... one date is cutting it a little too short to make a decision.... but BSs have 'special status'..... we have big wounds that need healing....can't risk HITTING the wound too often nor too soon......
Wrong woman Todd. The right woman makes all the difference.
No question but all womens are cold, right?
At an early stage of a relationship, one has to balance the emotional and cognitive radar screens. There are concerns in the form of blips. I don't know how old Nams is, but there are plenty of people who live in long-term relationships only to learn that their SO has no interest in getting married. By that time, they are well into their forties or gasp! even their fifties. By the time you hit your fifties in today's world you are sunk. Older womens want younger men and younger womens want younger men. Womens do have an advantage here: younger men seem to be quite smiten with older womens, so maybe it is not the concern that I think it is. While there are no guarantees in life or love, I witnessd nams waging a war between her left and right brain and urged her to listen to her left brain.
Look, Todd called me a toad and he thinks I'm you when in reality Kiwi's me and I'm still here. There's a lot of words games here but are mainly done to enjoy ourselves.
Welcome back larousse.
I have never called you a toad. Where/when did I call you a toad?
So, you and Kiwi are the same person? Wow, Kiwi, I am impressed by your Spanish. But being an English professor that shouldn't be too surprising.
Reminds me of the Beatle song, "The Walrus".
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
Lastly, did you find a ring? I have a box of Cracker Jack from 1959 that I am certain contains the diamond ring. How do I know you ask? I weighed 342 boxes of Cracker Jack to determine the mean weight and range. Then I took my scales to every store in town and weighed each box. I bought the box that was heavier than the normal range. Tell me that doesn't prove it. Of course, my brother was jealous that he didn't think of the idea first. He said there was probably a rat inside and that's why the box weighed more. Ha! Hey wait, come to think of it, there is a foul odor emanating from the box...
It's a global economy; labels don't mean much anymore.
I see, Todd.... if we can't count on the labels, any suggestions on how an 'ignorant' consumer like me can get INFORMED about products? ....and please don't tell me to google the product... prettttty soon that too (if not already) will not be a reliable source!
I just took that as a given and didn't even bother responding.
Pio...(edit: sorry!..that was Todd)
Quote
one has to balance the emotional and cognitive radar screens.
Quote
I witnessd nams waging a war between her left and right brain and urged her to listen to her left brain.
....Now....I could be wrong....but I seee some contradiction here!..... and so...let's clear this up, please....Nams has trouble enough as it is making a decision.
one of the fundamental tenets of MB is radical honesty. You refused to tell you H the truth. I am a BH. I want the truth. All BS's want the truth. You were trying to abuse MB principles to fit your needs. I am so proud of whoever wrote to you such that your husband saw it. They are heroes.
So you think I should try internet porn chat rooms? Why? Are you looking for another notch on your garter belt?
Lunamare, how do I do it I don't know but the last day the poor man was in bed with 39.1 Celcius grades of temperature. I thought he had a hangover and left him in bed while I picked around the appartment. When I went to check on him his forehead was burning and I took his temperature. I panicked, it was September 16th here, everything was closed, except for big stores. I ran to a Walmart and bought Tempera and Teraflux, he had had a flu some days before. Between Tempera and Teraflux the temperature went down. He also took penicilin, just in case. He had to get into a plane to Atlanta and then NY the next day with several stops to the restrooms. We don't know what was that, most probably a stomach bug or Moctezuma revenge. The weird part is that he had had bread from a very fancy bakery here the night before.
:::::::::::::
Pio, I loved the pic with the ready to travel bear. I agree with Kiwi, that boy has some personality confusions. BF has the most amazing feet I've ever seen in a man and he does a lot of hard work, no si..y there. What is G thinking, a man that exfoliate his feet, wow. Now the nail varnish is a little too much, maybe if it had been red or purple but just shiny...
Let's wait for Regreted to clarify how many OM and it which order. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
We read what you wrote to Myrta. Did you read what Myrta wrote to you? I am pretty sure she told you to tell your H the truth. I can copy it here for you if you like.
Regreted haunts porn chat sites trying to pick up strangers while lying to her husband about it. All she needs is "pay pal" and she can go pro."
Last two lines larousse... please...
Well I'll let larousse translate for you. I am shocked that you had 3 men. I was only aware of 2. Your story just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Are you still going to blame all this on your thyroid? Did I cause you to do internet porn with three men? Did I put OM's penis in your mouth? Why can't you accept responsibility for what you have done?
I opened the MB hood, used the search engine and found my post to which larousse refers. Below is a link to the relevant post that I made to larousse/Kiwi.
What I said is that your twenty - locaiton - is under a toad's stool, which is slang for mushrooms, or as the kids here say, shrooms. Has that arrived in NZ yet Jen?
Regreted, I'm sure there's some truth in G's posts. Sorry, Pio but I can see that you may have been a heavy drinker and spent too much time on the computer BUT, Regreted, that is not a reason for an A. Nothing is a reason for an A. If G was unhappy with what was happening in her marriage she should have SPOKEN to Pio about it, she should have said she was unhappy, she should not have gone off and screwed the pool boy.
I've seen this up close and personal. If I had approached Rob and supported him when he was in a deep depression after the deaths of my father and his parents instead of putting it in the "too hard" basket and having an A a lot of misery could have been prevented.
BTW Todd, I think in a lot of ways that's what your w did when she found out about your illness.
Okay so maybe I'm not perfect. Point taken. If G was not happy, she should have asked to change it or asked for divorce. Those were right choices.
I have tried to change all those wrongs as best I can. Some of them I changed even before her A. I am the one who asked G to post here. If I had anything I wished to hide, I never would of had her post.
So regreted, is this the best you can do? If it makes you happy to slam me here, go ahead. I really don't care.
You should be spending your time working on saving your M but now doing it based on truth. If you want to try to work on your M, as I said before, you will have my full support as long as you are completely honest with your H.
On a different and somewhat more serious subject, I was thinking today. It occurred to me that when you are in NC, your WW has no opportunity to fill any of your EN's.
I see, Todd.... if we can't count on the labels, any suggestions on how an 'ignorant' consumer like me can get INFORMED about products? ....and please don't tell me to google the product... prettttty soon that too (if not already) will not be a reliable source!
Okay, a confession: it is not true that Australian wine is bottled in Oregon and Washington. That was strictly to get a rise out of BigK. By now, we are three pages forward and he will learn soon enough.
As for how to tell, read labels. Go to the manufacturer's website. Write or call the manufacturer.
On a somewhat related subject, it irks me how the mass media has been complicit in the explosion of credibility of activist groups. Here's a good example. Remember the Center for Science in the Public Interest? Bunch of scientists who tested movie theater butter popcorn and told us it was laden with fat. In truth, the group was formed by Ralph Nader and consists of radical activists whose goal is to overhaul the nation's food system. This is America so their goal is okay but their camaflouged purpose is not. The list goes on and on.
On a different and somewhat more serious subject, I was thinking today. It occurred to me that when you are in NC, your WW has no opportunity to fill any of your EN's.
[color:"red"] Pio [/color] -the "2 much" pill is bitter but it was called the "Pio" pill while it was still patented...the "2much" pill is just the generic version...much more available and affordable to all socio-economic groups! I myself am having compliance issues with my "Pio pills" I am already wondering which direction I go when my 30days are up. I was plagued today with holding my tongue re: some bad intel passed on by the H that I happened to find counter info on...yes I had a little snoop off the wagon, must admit all it did was set me back psychologically.
We agreed I should gauge everything based on actions which overall despite some erratic behavior has shown small but consistent gains. His verbal stuff is very inconsistent but he warned me not to pay attention to what he says because it is all emotionally charged reaction.
Did I mention he asked if we had a MC appt this week? WTH...last session was when he stormed out stating he wanted a D! I just hate being lied to...I guess they don't just stop lying cold turkey they kind of wean themselves off the lies? I just got a book from the library that I'll update you on called "When Your Lover is a Liar"
Funny, when I stopped smoking over a decade ago I went cold turkey and haven't touched one since. I still have the urge for one when I'm stressed though. Does it work the same with A's...do you long for the company of others when you are miserable in your M but resist b/c you know you are weak to resist in this area?
I think I will take up the rubberband therapy someone here recently mentioned...sorry can't keep up with who said what anymore. It's hard enough to get through a day of postings and have time to comment:)
[color:"red"] Nams [/color] it looks like you talked yourself out of your dilemna. Good for you. I think if I returned to dating that I would be publicly announcing my "No intent to marry" as well...could get a tattoo to be really subtle with a ghostbuster cirle with 2 wedding rings inside???? Hmmmmmm I should see if it exists. No french offense intended...I love french onion rings, french toast and french roast...see I am not politically incorrect! Was that you or Luna who posted about the frog fingers????
Sorry, off the track again the big but is that if I met the right person I think all my walls would diminish and I'd seriously consider it. Most damaged folks are like that...yep, I now consider myself damaged goods...is that bad??? They are a hot bargain in most stores...but you never know if the damage has affected the contents or not...very true in real life too!
[color:"red"]ToddAC [/color] what's up with the WS, all you have been chatting about is Billie Jean...do you like the MJ Billie Jean too? If so I saw some reference to Thailand?
All other TKO posters( [color:"red"]Kiwi, BK, Believer, Luna, Larousse, Cinderella [/color] )...greetings and warm wishes! Gotta run to soccer!!!
as I told you before I had a girlfriend from your state at the university. I may be wrong but I feel you have some of her character caracteristics. She was very proud and she was ready to jump to what she percieved as unfair comments or disrespect comments.
It maybe difficult for you to understand that here in MB the words, the language towards the infidel, women or men can be so harsh and at the same time the site and most people is in favor of recovery, reconcilation or at least a healthy, honest, life in the future. This dicotomy is based in the concept that the WW or WS is out of his mind during the affair. While you lie to your husband you are under the influence of the fog that allowed your affair.
I have nothing against you but I believe that facing all you have done to you and to your marriage is too much for you. I have the impression that deep down you know your husband wouldn't kill himself or hit you more but that's just my impression. As Kiwi said, only you know your situation.
Pio and Todd are very fast with words and if you want to play to to be offensive with words with them you'll get very hard words. I feel that Pio has not anything personal agains you. He critisize your WW side or behavior, not you as a person or woman.
About the smartness comments... I bet you are smarter than me, not hard really. You may have a computation degree or something like that. I just work with words and part of my job has been to anylise (for Kiwi) analyze ideas and to verify information about cultural topics. It comes natural to me to try to get the big picture of concepts as a professional habit and I don't see that as personal smartness.
What you may have not done is to read or reread the MB concepts. Ideas as Love Busters, disrespect judgements, angry outburst, are helpful to improve communication with other people not just the spouse.
The Policiy of Radical Honesty is necesary to avoid new infidelities and to help the Betrayed spouse to recover the trust in the WW or BS. As long as you feel that it's ok to keep things hiden from your husband you would be in risk of commiting another infidelity.
Regreted, leave your proud away from this forum. You don't have to go from here. You just have to learn to learn to read what people is telling you. More than a place to vent or to complaine I see the forums as a place to learn from others and to get their help to improve ourselves as partners and persons.
Todd I meant that your wife seems to have done what I did. Couldn't cope or face a hard and serious situation so chose to shelve it.
I wasn't looking for an A and, if the OM hadn't turned up just when he did, I wouldn't have had an A. But I was in the right frame of mind I guess. Things weren't much fun at home - Rob had totally withdrawn from everyone and everything and it was tempting to have some excitement in my life. I may be quite wrong but I think that's what your w did.
After counselling and my MC pointing out that I'd behaved like a selfish 5 year old and not like a mature woman, I have vowed never to let my thinking get that way again.
I don't know. She is being nice. She called me when I returned from visiting my friend and wanted to know if I had a good time. The time is coming for me to challenge her lying and let her know that R is hanging by a thread and that she has the scissors. If she continues to lie, it is over. I expect her to lie. She is either protecting OM, in her mind, or following orders from her best friend, you know, "deny until you die".
I understand. There was plenty for her to be confused and upset about. Her Mother died three years before the onset of her A. Our youngest son went off to college two or three years before. I got sick. She started menopause. Went back to work and hated her job. All sorts of reasons to be unhappy.
I am willing to forgive her and move forward. She first has to be honest and stop repudiating her own confession that she had an affair. I have proof.
Looks like the spike of HIGH emotion has leveled out a bit.
regreted, I have not posted to you before. As many people here have pointed out to you there are key things you are not seeing.
You talk about OS being the worst thing for your H to find out about & to get past. This is one reason you say you are so worried he will find out. You have known this about your H yet you were willing to have OS with another man. Do you understand your H finding out is not the bad part? It's the OS with the other man. You say you do but you don't act like it. Your behavior is what counts.
You also talk about being sorry for your actions, about taking responsibility for your actions. This is not something you do with words alone. It's easy to say you take responsibility. It's very hard to do what you need to do to take responsibility, to be open & honest, to change your actions.
People are telling you your words do not match your actions. Read here about MB principles & what needs to be done & do it. Don't take what serves your purpose & leave the things that may be hard for you.
Let's start the MelodyLane debate again. Did I have the right to (re)post regreted's email so people could tell her H the truth? I have no idea what he got sent but I hope people sent him regreted's graphic posts of her A.
Luna, I'll figure you're yanking my chain on this dating issue. But just to be clear, I am NOT attached to this man. I am NOT thinking about marriage with him.
If he had not said he didn't want to remarry I wouldn't have had any dilemma at all. We could have gone out like to normal dating people. Gotten to know each other over the course of months during which his preference for staying single would have presumably come up.
At that point I would have had a choice to make. Keep seeing the man, deepening our relationship or go our separate ways because we see different things in our futures.
As it happened the information about his desire to not remarry came out on our first date. This tells me a couple of things about him. He feels strongly enough about staying single to mention it on a first date. He wants me to have the information so I can decide if I want to proceed.
Normally remarriage wouldn't even cross my mind on a first date, or second, third etc...but he brought it up so it must be something he felt I should know. Therefore, it became a topic to consider regarding whether to see him more or not.
Sorry about the pain and angish you are feeling. I would recomend you to stay in the forum and keep reading the articles.
The separation, as painful as it is, may just be a period of time. You need to learn to comunicate in an open not defensive or judgemental way with your husband.
I have the impression that you might be misunderstanding two concepts. Please excuse me if I'm wrong. One concept is about the right of your husband to know the true. As I understand MB concepts, there is no place for secrecy in a marriage. He's entitled to the true as you are entitled to know everything about him. There's not full recovery unless the BS knows about the affairs.
The other concept is about what is less or more betray, OS or FS... It's not a matter of deepness or quantity, really.
I feel you keep justifying your behavior based in the fact that what you showed or cam was not your full body or you had not full sex.
Your husband feelings about your behavior, are his feelings and he has a right to them and he has a need to recover from it in the time frame he needs to do it, not in the time frame you decide it's reasonable for him to do it.
I have great hopes about you. Great hopes that you will learn and recover. This is just a sad spot in your marriage and maybe the crisis that will turn everything for the better. You have to learn fast so don't make mistakes that could turn things for the worst.
You may feel that we are considering you a low human being or the worst of the worst. I don't think I do and I don't think others think that about you. Sadly your case is too comun around here. What people won't do is to sugarcoat the true for you. That's the difference between MB and other forums. It requires that you be brave about your own mistakes and that you learn from them.
I don't give advice to regretted too much because her husband HITS her. I would not want to tell her the wrong thing. Personally, I would consider separation.
Are you familiar with the comedian Ron White? He is best known as a member of the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. In one of his routines, he talks about the fact that Cincinnati bills itself as the chili capital of the world. He then says that you would think it would be Mexico City or Guadalajara. Anyway, I cannot do it justice but it is very funny.
I don't give advice to regretted too much because her husband HITS her. I would not want to tell her the wrong thing. Personally, I would consider separation.
Hi believer,
regreted has posted that her husband hits her. I am not sure what to believe from regreted anymore. She has lost much credibility.
regreted,
You should really consider staying here because you need MB more than ever. You need to be honest with MB, your BH, your family and most importantly - with yourself.
I was half expecting a propousal that didn't came, lol. He made some comments about what would be an ideal situation for him, like dating for a long while.
I feel that if left to their own devices many men wouldn't want to marry, lol.
I was a rebel teen and my head was full of literary concepts, it took me almost twenty years, slow learning here, to realize that marriage was a better option to make a couple than cohabitation.
There was not ring but the man was a champ. He helped me to repair somethings in the appartment. I felt guilty about that but he saw it as a natural thing between us. He stayed in a hotel three days and the other five at my home.
We met online. Oops. I spend a lot of time online for work reasons and addiction reasons too. Lol.
Believer. I agree with your point of view but Regreted has explained that in one of those ocassions, I think the first, she hit him too. Not a justification at all. It's a complex situation indeed.
I was half expecting a propousal that didn't came, lol. He made some comments about what would be an ideal situation for him, like dating for a long while.
larousse,
Do I also have to lecture to you about men who don't want to marry?
Quote
I feel that if left to their own devices many men wouldn't want to marry, lol.
I never wanted to marry. I was having too much fun. As it happened, I married the wrong woman.
Okay, a confession: it is not true that Australian wine is bottled in Oregon and Washington. That was strictly to get a rise out of BigK. By now, we are three pages forward and he will learn soon enough.
Now, that may be true but a brand of water called Tasmanian Rain is bottled in Middle Tennessee. They capture the rainwater in Tasmania, ship it to Middle Tennessee in the bladders and bottle it (into beautiful glass bottles) and distribute it from there.
The bladders are less expensive to ship, weigh less, take up less space, and result in less breakage.
Or, that is the line from the company.
The bottles are the most beautiful bottles of water I have ever seen. As for the water, I think it tastes like clean water.
Now, that may be true but a brand of water called Tasmanian Rain is bottled in Middle Tennessee. They capture the rainwater in Tasmania, ship it to Middle Tennessee in the bladders and bottle it (into beautiful glass bottles) and distribute it from there.
The bladders are less expensive to ship, weigh less, take up less space, and result in less breakage.
I'm sorry but what a load of tripe!
Who on earth could think that one up? Why ship water to be bottled in what is probably the second highest manufacturing cost center in the world? (The USA - not Middle Tennessee)
Bladders? That one's good too. Not exactly the best way to reduce shipping costs. However, if you look up the definition of bladder, it could be most anything.
That story is a mareketing ploy to make you pay more for water coming from Tennessee. Actually the French are the best when it comes to overpriced water.
This reminds me of that Kalioke water they started making in Bartlesville, Oklahoma. They needed to distill the public water for some manufacturing process and decided to bottle the excess. They closed their original business and went into selling water. The Kalioke name was marketing genius.
BTW, if you are into stock trading, buy water. Oil may be $60 per bbl now but just wait 10 or 20 years. Water is going to be the most valuable commodity on earth.
Please stay around. Now you can really get the help you need from MB. Your M is not over. Your worst fears are finally over. Now is the time to really start trying to save your marriage. We all want that for you and will do what we can to help you. Your H needs you now more than ever. You also need to give him some time. You are the only person on this planet who can make things right. Take up the courage and do it.
Todd you can lecture me any time. I even understood about the numbers. 1,2,3,5,8,13, but I forgot their name and I really don't know what is the utility of knowing about them.
How did I get the crackpot idea (thanks Kiwi for the crackpot vocabulary) that he was going to propouse... One month ago or so he said he would like to design a engagement ring for me. We are on saving mood so I said we didn't have to spend that much on that (kill me) so he asked me if there were gum machines in Mx. Once here he mentioned that everything would be much easier if we lived in the same country and that he would date me for a long while.
It's interesting that Nam is pondering a similar topic or question. I told BF a while ago that I wouldn't live with anyone unless we were married. I feel that it's a personal boundary. Being there, done that, got the scars. Lol. I don't know how seriously he takes what I said or what is he thinking right now about that. At the begining he was more enthusiastic* about getting married and now I think reality is settling and he sees the practical problems.
Hi 2much... It seems you are doing some progresses. I hope.
However, 2much, just so you know, although I am Italian and write in English, I do live in a francophone ZONE - Quebec (home life is in French) - and am sensitive to French bashing...
From the script of the movie Vertical Limit:
Skip says: Don't mind her. She's French-Canadian. Some days she's Canadian. Can be quite pleasant. Today she's obviously French.
My plan... good question... first I told him to stop feeding the deers, that Lyme illness sounds scary.
I feel comfortable getting to know each other more. I have never 'tried' to go to live or work in US and professionally it's better for me to be here. I don't know if I'm delutional about the viability of keeping a long distance relationship for a while.
We may see each other three or four times before Christmas and then he may meet my family, ugh.
Mexican Spanish uses ustedes instead of vosotros and we don't use at all the Spain declination of vosotros and vosotros verbal conjugation. It's a characteristic of our Spanish that comes from Andalucia, the Spain state where most conquerers came from. We don't ceceamos either, meaning for us z and s have the same pronuntiation. Whereas in Spain s has an linguodental fricative sound for us is a interdental fricative. It's said that the 'purest' Spanish is kept in Colombia and Peru.
Todd you can lecture me any time. I even understood about the numbers. 1,2,3,5,8,13, but I forgot their name and I really don't know what is the utility of knowing about them.
Hi larousse,
I cannot go into too much detail for fear that Kiwi will scream at me again. But anyway, to be technically correct, which math is after all, the beginning sequence is 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55 etc. The sequence is called a Fibanocci Number. The sequence was first used to define rabbit breeding. Today Fib numbers are used in a variety of applications. There are stock traders who use Fib number retracement levels to determine when to reenter the stock market after a decline. Although I am a stock trader, I do not use Fib Numbers in my trading.
It's said that the 'purest' Spanish is kept in Colombia and Peru.
Yes the Colombians are quite proud of their Castellano. It does make it hard for me to get in some conversations. When I studied Spanish, I did learn vosotros so can usually deal with in all but the imperative. "Os" is hard.
Quote
I don't know if I'm delutional about the viability of keeping a long distance relationship for a while.
Well since you did bring it up, don't you sometimes wonder if this isn't really a protection mechanism? It forces you to not commit to a relationship so it is "safe"? How can you meet each other's EN's over that distance? I am finding that I get more disconnected from gemela every day.
It is inevitable. Y'all fills a need for a third person plural. I believe I predicted (although really, how would I know?) that y'all would officially make its way into every dictionary in the world, with the possible exception of the vaulted OED. People all over the US use it and I have seen it written by folks in the UK, Germany, Mexico, NZ, Aus and Canada.
Just a matter of time I tell you. Oops, I mean I tell y'all.
Actually I love to hear Puerto Ricans speak although after spending a lot of time in Mexico, it is difficult. Venezuelans speak very quickly and you get used to it. Mexicans speak relatively slowly and, when I first moved there, it was almost painful to listen to. I kept wanting to say "just say it already!".
Then get used to that and try listening to Cubans! Venezuelans can talk fast because they drop letters. Puerto Ricans and Cubans don't drop letters AFAIK. They just talk FAST.
But the best Spanish is probably Colombia. Even Argentina slangs up a bit. They use "vos" instead of "tu".
Thanks foor the explanation Todd, it's very funny the original purouse* of that.
Puelto Lico has a very nice speaking rythm.
Pio, I think you are right about me using a LD relathionship as a defense mechanism. I feel that I'm more capable of giving in a relationship than I was some years ago. As things are right now, the distance allows some kind of slow 'inmersion' or 'induction' period. Lol.
We are in touch several times a day. From early morning to late night by phone, mail and chat. That man has became an expert on cheap calling cards to Mx. Every time he finds a new, cheaper one he calls me with the exciting news. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Our main relationship issues right now have to do with what he sees in me as sadness, if I say I miss him he thinks I'm sad, it's hard to explain to him that I'm not sad, yet I miss him. From my side I tend to be a little too critical about some physical things, like he brushing his tongue more or cleaning his face morning and night. He has done everything very nicely and finds he likes them but the last day together I made a comment about his tongue and he said half joking that nothing was enough for me. I tried to joke and justify that saying that I'm woman but I know I may overstep. I know that along the years I have became more critical of some aspects of men hygiene and I'm sure it's a defensive mechanism. After a while of being with someone I'm not that critical. How much critisism about that can he endure? How much of different habits can I endure? I don't know.
I have became more critical of some aspects of men hygiene
Well first of all you can't use "men" and "hygiene" in the same sentence.
I was just thinking about LD relationships and wondering if there isn't a fantasy aspect to them? I mean, it is easy to overlook tongue non-brushing if you aren't there in person. The thing about the LD is that it allows you to embrace the good and neglect the bad. I'm no expert - just beng nosey. But what happens if you decide to get together and then find that little habits drive you up the wall?
Actually I love to hear Puerto Ricans speak although after spending a lot of time in Mexico, it is difficult. Venezuelans speak very quickly and you get used to it. Mexicans speak relatively slowly and, when I first moved there, it was almost painful to listen to. I kept wanting to say "just say it already!".
This is really interesting. My WW has trouble understanding Mexicans because they speak so fast. DS2's GF is from Mexico and WW understands her with no problem but then she is Americanized. WW and her family, without the outstanding exception of FIL, talk slowly. Oh yeah, and her oldest brother talks fast. Maybe WW is somewhat out of practice.
One thing I have never been guilty of is talking fast in any language.
I agree with your perspective. I also wonder why I don't seem 'capable' of dating Mexican men.
It's a contradiction but for someone like me that has gone long periods of time, three and two years each time, without dating, a LDR gives me enough time and space to get use to the idea. I hope it makes sense or it doesn't make sense at all?
It's a contradiction but for someone like me that has gone long periods of time, three and two years each time, without dating, a LDR gives me enough time and space to get use to the idea. I hope it makes sense or it doesn't make sense at all?
WW also told me that she never wanted to marry a PR or any Latin man for that matter. She saw her Father cheat for many years as well as her brothers. Duh, guess it wore off on her.
Todd, considering I like to play chess* but s*ck at it, at least it's a relief to play mind games. Lol.
Pio, I have had a very different upbringing and teen years and I find hard to explain myself to Mx men.I hate when they jump to conclusions about my past. Other men may jump to conclusions and I don't notice it. Hahahaha.
I'm not catholic, neither is my family. I'm 5'6 tall which makes me tall for the medium height here. I dunno. I feel different. Maybe I'm not different, just isolated. Hahaha.
Todd, I have the impression your visit to your friend 'aired' your mind... Maybe that's what you need an interesting work project.
Yes I am kidding (I hope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />)
I think that, with the exception of my feet, gemela would have no complaints. And I am working on my feet. And no I do NOT have toenail polish on. It was a freak reflection due to the oblique camera angle and the refractive index of toenails. ToddAC can explain it better than me.
Larousse, not that I know anything about Mexican men but you sound a bit too "liberated" for a Mexican man. By that I mean you are your own woman and wouldn't play the "good little wife at home". Which is all good and I admire you for it.
It was so toenail polish and they looked like women's feet to me.
I knew you were kidding because Americans are the most hygiene conscious people in the world. They have made hygiene an art form.
Do you remember during the 70s when you could buy spray on woo woo smell masker. Only the Americans would think of such a thing. Not only that, it led to all sorts of woo woo problems for women. OMG, I can still smell the stuff.
Americans are the most hygiene conscious people in the world. They have made hygiene an art form.
Well I used to believe that until I lived in Mexico. I think Mexicans are much cleaner than Americans.
Quote
It was so toenail polish and they looked like women's feet to me.
Blackadder: Ah-haah-ah, indeed. So, Rum, I wish to hire you and your ship. Can we shake on it? [holds out hand]
Rum: aah-ahhh! [strokes his hand] You have a woman's hand, milord! I'll wager these dainty pinkies never weighed anchor in a storm.
Blackadder: Well, you're right there.
Rum: Ha ha ha. -Aah! Your skin milord. I'll wager it ne'er felt the lash of a cat ['o' nine tails], been rubbed with salt, and then flayed off by a pirate chief to make fine stockings for his best cabin boy.
Blackadder: How canny, I don't know how you do it, but you're right again.
Rum: Why should I let a stupid cockerel like you aboard me boat?
Blackadder: Perhaps for the money in my purse [holding it up]
Rum: Ha. -Aah! You have a woman's purse! [takes it from him and examines it daintily] I'll wager that purse has never been used as a rowing-boat. I'll wager it's never had sixteen shipwrecked mariners tossing in it.
Blackadder: Yes, right again, Rum. I must say when it comes to tales of courage I'm going to have to keep my mouth shut.
Rum: Oh! You have a woman's mouth, milord! I'll wager that mouth never had to chew through the side of a ship to escape the dreadful spindly killer fish.
Blackadder: I must say, when I came to see you, I had no idea I was going to have to eat your ship as well as hire it. And since you're clearly as mad as a mongoose I'll bid you farewell [gets up]
Rum: Aaah, courtiers to the Queen, you're nothing but lapdogs to a slip of a girl.
Blackadder: Better a "lapdog to a slip of a girl", than a... Git.
Rum: So you do have some spunk in you! Don't worry, laddie, I'll come, I'll come [holds out is hand]
Blackadder: Well, let us set sail as soon as we can. [they shake] I will fetch my first mate, and then I'll return as fast as my legs will carry me.
Rum: Ah! [pointing] You have a woman's legs, my lord! I'll wager those are legs that have never been sliced clean off by a falling sail, and swept into the sea before your very eyes.
Blackadder: [crossly] Well, neither have yours.
Rum: That's where you're wrong [throws aside table showing his lack of legs]
Blackadder: Oh my God!
Rum: No point in changing your mind now; no one else will come. The whole thing's suicide anyway. What's the first mate's name?
Sorry Pio, I had an English boyfriend, grandson of a Lord. Public school child. His hygiene was the worst, ever but he had the most amazing amount of useless information stored in his head. He went to a boarding school since he was 8 years old. I never saw him lost his temper or rise his voice.
I was going to say to Regreted that I'm also an old drunk who spends too much time on the computer. My H didn't have an A
Well although I got pretty well dissed yesterday, let's hope regreted can come back and start really working on her marriage. I wonder if anyone is going to confess on sending the emails. I am really curious.
Yes I am kidding (I hope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />)
I think that, with the exception of my feet, gemela would have no complaints. And I am working on my feet. And no I do NOT have toenail polish on. It was a freak reflection due to the oblique camera angle and the refractive index of toenails. ToddAC can explain it better than me.
BK, lol. I have to admit my abuser tendencies. I like most kinds of Spanish speaking styles, even Argentinans but I can't stand Spain street Spanish or Spain Spanish in general, neither their tendency to have the word sh*t in every two words sentence.
The only time I've ever seen what a bath in the pre dush years was, was with that English boyfriend. He standed in front of the hands washing basing* and slapped water with some soap to his armprits and underparts, a fast shaving and he was ready to go. I don't know if it was because of his Scotish ancestors but he had a hard time getting ride of his 'dirtiness'. At night he prefered to flosse his teeth than brush them. Mint flavored floss for good mesure.
We have a lecturer at the university who is American but grew up from the age of 3 in Argentina.
In our staff room not so long ago he asked why me and my female colleague couldn't be more like Argentinian women and get him a cup of coffee and answer his phone. He was teasing and I knew he was teasing.
My colleague got to her feet and said "I don't have to listen to this crap." then slammed the door on her way out.
P and I were left staring at each other in stunned amazement.
It wasn't me either, I didn't see the post with his or her mail adress.
If it wasn't Pio or Kiwi, maybe she's protecting herself in advance, meaning none has sent anything and she says someone has, just to prevent anyone from doing it.
Too many ones in that sentence.
Todd, I'm curious, how does your DS2 girlfiend gets along with DS1 French girlfriend?
Well although I got pretty well dissed yesterday, let's hope regreted can come back and start really working on her marriage. I wonder if anyone is going to confess on sending the emails. I am really curious.
I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove a thing.
Kiwi, you are clarvoyant* or something. I'm having a tequila. BF bought a very nice one and each night I sip a little. Bad me.
About the English boyfriend, he's now in Switzerland, working as editor for a big news company. Recently he got in touch, he's married now. The first two mails were normal and then things got personal about our past relationship, for a little while I feel tempted to ask him about us and the past but then I realized how easy it would be to be sucked into an EA. I told him I had a boyfriend and that it wouldn't be fair to keep in touch.
I'm a regular riot this afternoon Jen. Now if only the Sydney Swans kick Fremantle's arses in the AFL tonight I'll be a happy man. I'm getting my projector set up and everything. LOL
BK, for some reason the Spanish need to have the word sh*t next to the word god, and for good effect they say I sh*t on god. After a while you get very tired of imagining the poor god cleaning himself or something, sorry that's very graphic and that's exactly the impression I get, it's too graphic to say something like that.
Todd, too much numbers can be dangerous for you health. BF brought a book of short stories, the author is Richard Barga... something, oh I can't remember, it was good. Lol.
Kiwi, I was going to confess that I have little wife complex inside me, just let me find it... I truly do, buah.
Actually Argentinans have been the most liberated women along the last decades. Wait, Argentina has the biggest amount of psyquiatrs* per capita of the world.
Todd, I'm curious, how does your DS2 girlfiend gets along with DS1 French girlfriend?
Honestly, she cannot stand her. Nobody in the family can stand her. Hey, I forgot! DS1 called me yesterday to say that he and French GF had broken up!! I know he was sad so I said my condolences but as soon as I hung up the phone, I danced, okay not danced, around the room. My middle son is the most accepting, non-judgmental person I know. Even he cannot stand French GF.
Please allow me to share a small example. At Thanksgiving last year, we sat at the table and were ready to go around the table and share what we were thankful for. French GF noticed the turkey salt and pepper shakers sitting in front of her. She picked each one up in succession and then started:
"These turkeys are not anatomically correct. They have no place to do their business. I wonder what they do? There is no way that they can do their business because there is no orifice. Why are we using turkey shakers that are not anatomically correct?"
So, instead of chewing on turkey and sweet potato souffle and dressing, I chewed my tongue.
I kid you not, she droned on about the salt and pepper shakers until finally I had had it. I said excuse me dear French GF but it is time for each of us to say what we are thankful for. When it came her turn, she said: "Certainly not for the shakers that are not anatomically correct."
I stood up, walked out the back door, walked around in the backyard in circles for five to ten minutes. I had to or I would have verbally removed her head. When I walked back into the dining room, you could hear a pin drop. She never uttered another word about the turkey shakers.
Hey Todd, good news. Er, I mean, sorry about that for your son but, yupie!
I had a French work colege, she was actually very pretty and educated and all. We were having a coffee in a very posh coffee shop in the poshest university of Mx and when someone asked for a fruit tea, or fruit infusion, she made a point to lecture us about the correct name of a fruit tea as fruit infusion and that tea was only for tea, the plant from which green tea, black tea, Oolong tea come from. I didn't say anything but I found curious that she felt the need to lecture us about that instead of inquiring first if we knew the difference or something.
I'm a French admirer in disguise or without disguise. Bash me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
A mariachi would be a conjunto, band is usually more of the North with more percussions and no wind intruments.
Ask for the song Mujeres tan divinas, you will like it, I hope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and then to lift the spirit a cumbia called, Colegiala and then, Camelia la tejana.
Watch out the Pico the Gallo Todd. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
This band has four members. Violin, or fiddle as you please, trumpet, guitar and a very large guitar. They are fantastic. I always ask them to play Lambada. It is my favorite song of all time.
As for tequila, I only drink beverages that have been aged longer than five minutes.
As for the pico de gallo, I have learned my lesson. I love the stuff but this restaurant makes it way too caliente.
Oh Todd, you know lambada is a rythm invented in the Amazonian area. Manaos I think, oh too much tequila in my head now.
The trick about tequila is that the bottle most say 100% agave, agave the cactus plant where tequila cames from, if it doesn't say it, it's not pure. Most 'reposado' versions should have more than three years old and be aged in wood 'containers'. Sorry about my vocabulary.
I love the stuff but this restaurant makes it way too caliente.
I was in Cuernavaca one time at an immersion language school and I was staying at the house of a local family along with two other students. One day the wife is preparing lunch and one of the men asks "es muy caliente?" The wife replies "no, bo está muy caliente". He takes a bit and spews. It was full of habanero chilis. The man, incredulous says "I THOUGHT YOU SAID IT WASN'T CALIENTE!" The woman replies "it isn't caliente but it is bastante picante". What a hoot.
Night Todd, ask for Mujeres divinas to the Mariachi.
I have wanted to post this adress. Pics of birds and animals of Baja California, Mx. It's the site of an American photographer that lives near Ensenada, Baja California Norte. He's making a book about Baja California birds and animals. At the begining of the year we were in the same work team to a special enviromental protected area of islands in Cortes Sea, between continental Mx and Baja California, Las Encantadas.
Did I mention I called WW last night? Turns out she has only tentative plans to come back. Her BA flight is apparently for about October 10th but she did make a reservation to leave Mexico on the 27th of Sept. She says she has not done anything definite because she needs money to make the changes. I asked how she planned to do that. She didn't really know. I asked if she planned to borrow from her sister or father and have me pay it back. She wasn't sure. Basically I got a bit frustrated and told her she needed to get it all sorted out and that it was her problem and not mine and she just needed to let me know what she decides.
I also asked her why she was coming back without discussing it. She said she misses us. I said I could understand that but that if we get divorced, we have to accept the fact that we are never going to live together as one family. She said she doesn't want a divorce. I said I might but wasn't sure. She has hurt me very much and I don't want to go back to our previous life only to have her hurt me again. Anyway, it wasn't the most pleasant of conversations.
And guess which country is the least hygiene conscious?
Kyrgyzstan?
Don't leave us hanging. Are you going to answer the question?
And I will admit that I sent the Spanish email. I did not say anything about the details of her affairs. All I said was that she was not telling him the truth and that he needed to question her and seek the truth and that I hoped she would finally decide to tell him.
I do get to see a few of those games on the sports channel here when cricket is not being shown. I don't really want to offend anyone here but a lot of those guys wear shorts that look, well, how can I put this? I am sure there must be another explanation.
Not only that, it led to all sorts of woo woo problems for women. OMG, I can still smell the stuff.
You know KiwiJ, you could have worded that a whole lot better. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Pio, what was G's response to you saying you may want a D? Did you feel better or worse after getting that off your chest? Did she ask or did you just offer the info?
I felt better. She didn't ask. She believes that all is good with the world and that she will come back here and life will be all rosey. I am going to try to call her in another 30 minutes and have a more civil conversation.
I didn't say I wanted a divorce. I said we had to consider it was a very real possibility. I told her I have been very happy not worrying about what she is doing or who she is seeing. I told her I can finally concentrate at work.
The reason that D came up is that I told her there was no need to rush back. I said the girls were fine. She said they were not fine. I asked how she would know that and that yes they were fine. No doubt they missed her but they are doing well. And in the event of divorce, they would not have us together.
DD1 told me today for no reason that she misses mommy a little but not really all that much. She said that she knew if mommy didn't take cre of her that I was going to so she always had one of us to take care of her. It was a strange thing for her to say but I just told her that yes - at least one of us would always be there for her.
Pio, did you take the picture of your feet to prove you polish your nails? Let's take a survey: How many people have a larger second toe (monkey toe)? Does having a larger second toe have any reflection on intellegence?
G said she doesn't want to D, does that mean she wants the marriage & is willing to do the work necessary? Or does it mean she just wants the marriage because the alternative is not attractive to her? I know you're waiting to see, but I think your detachment helps to see this very clearly.
I know for me while then h was in the house I didn't question whether I wanted the mariage. I was blindly in save it mode. Once he was out of the house I saw more clearly who he really was & what I could expect from him if we did stay together. And, importanly, what I wanted & deserved from our marriage.
Larousse, I'm interested in how you met your BF. You say online, was it a dating site or through your work?
So, no plastic ring from a machine, you must be dissapopinted. But the fact "he would date me for a long while" must make up for your dissappointment. Maybe you're lots younger than me, I'm 48 (Todd), but dating for a long while looks like dating with no end goal. Limbo land. I'm too old for that.
Todd, It's good to hear these number tricks have actual applications. They've always seemed to me a way for "mathies" to keep themselves amused, nobody else amused, but them, yes.
Todd,I think you want numbers to cozy up to instead of womens.
The beauty of rewriting history. We can take a marriage of, in my case 21 years, & reduce down to "the first two years were great". Leaving the rest for the stink pile. Did we marry the wrong people or did they we change & grow apart rather than together. I dunno, maybe some of both. I share BigK's sadness.
Tasmanian bladder water is going into my chili recipe.
I'm going out on a limb here & suggesting the french GF had a pretty woo woo that's why your son put up with her.
Kiwi, woo woo spray ROTFLMAO. It was originally intended for the French. America's gift to the home of smelly woo woos.
Hey 2much! I have a sick child home from school today. He's one who never fakes it so whenever he says he's sick he really is. Video games are helping to take his mind off the pain.
Based on all the evidence presented on this thread in the past 12 hours, put all the facts together and I am betting French GF had a pretty SMELLY woo woo.
Perfume isn't popular in France by accident. Not shaving their legs actually came about by necessity before the garter belt was invented. They used to pull the hair through the hose on top and tied little knots to keep them from falling down.
ToddAC: Think DS and FxGF broke up because your DS doesn’t have anatomically correct shakers?
Pio: One thing to consider: is there a pattern in how you and G converse? Is all conversation guarded or in a hostile tone? Think about that and think whether a different approach might give different results.
I have a feeling that all initiative is going to have to come from you. From some of the things I read it sounds as if G has had a guarded life and can roll responsibilities over on others. Therefore she books tickets without a definite plan, she goes to the airport in Florida with no . You really have to think what you WANT as opposed to what you are willing to ACCEPT.
Yes I know. I did get mad when I found out the DDs believe she will be here on the 30th but she has no plan in place to make it happen. Why did she promise them that? Once again this will somehow manage to make itself my problem. I read your email. I agree and will follow your plan once she gets here. I won't have much contact with her before she comes so I'll be nice.
I need more info on the turkey shakers. I've been googling all afternoon and I am just not quite getting this.
I just got off the phone with WW and did apologize for my angry outburst but nothing more. We discussed a plan to work on her return tickets. She will update me when she has reservations and I will send her money once I get SIL's OM's bank details.
She seemed disappointed that I had told her I didn't really want her back. I calmly told her to try and look at it from my POV. What has she done in the past year that would make me want her back? She said she understood but was still disappointed. I promised her things would be calm when she returned and that we would take time to discuss the problems and then decide what we would do and that beyond that I had no idea of what the future held. I think it was a very polite conversation.
Good, Pio. I'm glad it went better. If you can come up with a plan, I think she'd be willing to work hard. You may have to be the one to show her the way and you probably need counseling too. But, I think you two can do this and be happy again some day.
You know, when I read your post about your first phone conversation, I was thinking about what an impossible situation Gemela is in. She has no money, no control over anything and if you split up, she has no way to take care of herself and the girls.
This is just throwing something out there... but do you think Gemela might want to go to school or maybe start a little business of her own? Just thinking of a way for her to feel a bit more empowered and have something to focus on. If she had something to do that was her own and gave her some fulfillment, your recovery might go a lot better.
Just thought of something... but if she really got into the scrapbooking stuff, maybe she could open a scrapbooking supply business? Todd could help with the logistics... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I've never been into the scrapbooking stuff, but I have friends who are. They go to these parties and weekend retreats and all kinds of stuff. That would give Gemela a way to make her own money, socialize and build some pride in accomplishments.
We have talked about some ideas and she has expressed some interest in a business but she never follows through with anything. School would be difficult here - okay - impossible here.
Quote
if you split up, she has no way to take care of herself and the girls.
I have always promised to uphold my vows. G is my wife. I am obligated to that commitment. From my POV, G is the one writing herself out of the M. I am sure pool boy will support her.
We have talked about some ideas and she has expressed some interest in a business but she never follows through with anything. School would be difficult here - okay - impossible here.
Quote
if you split up, she has no way to take care of herself and the girls.
I have always promised to uphold my vows. G is my wife. I am obligated to that commitment. From my POV, G is the one writing herself out of the M. I am sure pool boy will support her.
I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't take care of her and the kids. My point was that I was thinking about what a bad position she's in and how reliant she is on you for everything. Feeling helpless makes people depressed. And my guess is that she feels incredibly resentful. I would.
If she had her own money and some success to make her believe that she could take care of herself, she could be with you because she wants to, not because she feels she has no choice. Wouldn't that feel better for you too -- to have a self-sufficient wife so that you would feel more certain that she wants to be married to you?
The only reason I thought about the scrapbooking thing, is because of you talking about bringing all that stuff back and all the expense and hassle with it. I'm sure that other women who are living there would love to be able to buy those supplies locally. I don't know how much of a hassle it'd be to import it to sell either. I was just trying to think of a way for Gemela to have some control over her own life and some pride in herself.
I have always told G that I would finance any venture she chose. She has ideas - but no follow through. I won't do it for her. That would defeat the purpose.
And for the record, I did NOT nor never have polished my nails. The Vietnamese woman in Walmart did it. I don't know why. I think she just got caught up in the moment. The part I DID like was the paraffin dip. I bought my own and it is coming in my shipment. I am worried though. It is still about 42C here during the day. I hope the paraffin isn't all spread out over the bottom of the container.
I think the paraffin dip will be really good for gemela's hands.
The thing about the LD is that it allows you to embrace the good and neglect the bad. I'm no expert - just beng nosey. But what happens if you decide to get together and then find that little habits drive you up the wall?
Actually, Pio....this could also somewhat be applicable to an A...but in addition to the fantasy (seeing what WS wants to see)....an A is a much bigger mess...with the added pain of BS, children, friends, extended family....created by the lies and destruction of a family. Also in an A, I think that in an attempt to want to hold on to the fantasy-based R as long as possible, a WS will also deny its destructive consequences as long as possible.... which I believe is the 'logic' behind the MB principles and the plans for a BS..... the main objective being: bring REALITY to the A in any way possible and as soon as possible.....by exposing... by not sugar-coating consequences.....by stating boundaries.....
as the saying goes: be careful for what you wish for.....
I have HEARD....that my WS is definitely NOT a happy camper.... but I wouldn't know.... I am in PLAN B and am trying to enjoy life inspite of the cards I have been dealt!
Hi Todd,
Quote
Frahnsay.
..oush....good thing it's what I am not!
Quote
My middle son is the most accepting, non-judgmental person I know. Even he cannot stand French GF.
.....I see....so your DS1's French GF is at the bottom of all the French bashing going on?
Quote
Quite the contrary. Numbers are measureable, consistent, understandable, logical, repeatable and simply magnificent.
...in other words......everything a WS is not!
Pio,
Quote
pio's feet
I think Kiwi said it best...good thing we can't 'smell' via computers....and please don't tell us that some scientist may actually be working on this!
Well lunamare, it looks like today you're Canadian.
FWIW, larousse may be a bit under the weather.
larousse, ¿has escuchado algo sobre el pelo del perro que te mordió?
LM,
I agree about the relationship to an A. I was thinking that when I was writing it. You are right though that the big difference is that there is no destructive behavior. Even so, when I think about it along that parallel, it makes the LD relationship seem unhealthy. Fortunately larousse is hung over and won't read that I wrote that.
Made deal with Pio for no snoop, no outbursts, strong plan A until beginning of Oct
Evidence of H's secret phone revealed itself today without any snooping...I knew he had one, just never saw it and never brought the topic up since I had no evidence
When H wanted R he said he cut off all ties to OWs and gave me the password to cell phone and said I could check it when ever...that's when I figured new phone...the cell bill only shows calls to and from me on the old phone and he must think I'm an idiot to believe he stopped talking to everone on one day and they never have contacted him since...
So...do I just tuck this away and save it for later or bring it up? Has it changed anything? No, it just proves he is continuing to lie to me... His actions are better than before but that is probably b/c of the lack of conflict and confrontation since I have quit looking for things
I have obviously been down this path a few times and each time I responded differently.
1) Throw a screaming fit and kick WW out of the house. That never really worked for me.
2) Show the discovered evidence to WW and tell her quietly how much this hurt me and I couldn't believe how cruel she was.
3) Passively display the evidence (e.g. put the cell phone somewhere in plain sight) without saying a word.
4) Take the hig moral ground and DJ the he!! out of WW telling her how weak and pathetic she was and tell her I was really tired of watching her childish behavior so could she hide it better next time?
I got to where I would alternate between 2 and 4. I realize it is not exactly plan A but you have to preserve your sanity.
Every time I found new evidence, I confronted the issue at that moment and then went back to burying my head in the sand.
At this point there is no need to keep your discovery a secret because you already have all the intel you need on the A.
Just remember that NC is not a condition of Plan A. Plan A places no obligation on the wayward. And remember, he may just be trying to push your buttons. I think your H has a self-destructive streak. If he got caught, it is because he wanted to get caught.
I guess in your place I would simply and quietly state to WH that I found the phone and that I know he is still lying and that it hurts me very much. No DJ, no outburst. Simply state your feelings. You have a right to those and telling WH is not breaking Plan A.
Yep, I've been through 1-4 in the past...in my sitch they all get the same exact reaction...anger, distancing and pretty much starting from square 1.
The craziest thing is that today in the past 4 hours H has spent 2 with me and showed me a piece of info that I had asked for months ago and offered me to do something that I also had asked for months ago. Do you think that he knows that if I have the capability to monitor him he will always be getting confronted and we will never make any progress b/c I will monitor and call him on his noncompliance at least weekly as has been the past cycle or do you think he is just juggling the best of both worlds?
He referenced D today in passing twice and the second time stopped himself and said he didn't want to talk about it. I never commented, reacted or contributed either time.
I think I'm gonna wait for an opportune time and then probably do what you said, let him know I'm not that nieve and have known all along but knew it wouldn't change things to confront. I feel like telling him to save us some $ and drop the service to the old phone since it is only for my benefit.
I really don't see this working out...I agree he has a self-destruct mode...my neighbor mentioned the same exact thing but knows nothing about all of this mess, only commented re: observations with our friendship with them.
I hate H pretending...be a man, come clean and deal with the mess you have created, see the consequences, live them, feel them...watch the suffering you have inflicted on your children, family, finances. Get your head out of your a$$ and see that you can't live like this for an extended period of time. Something's got to give. I don't see why he is trying to go through the superficial motions of recovery...it will just make things worse in the long run. I'm getting close to needing complete detachment in order to preserve anything that may be left. I think that is his goal to keep pushing buttons and throwing curves to keep me confused,wondering, waiting and wanting.
I think in his mind right now he thinks things are the best that they have been btwn us for the past 9 months although the threat of D is very real...no rationing with the foggy
Too early in the day for wine so I better get to work to keep my mind occuppied. Sorry for the rant but just had to get it off my chest. Apparently I am becoming quite the actress...H didn't sense anything wrong and he usually is spot on when I am upset. Maybe I'll turn to acting as a second career! Pio, how have you hung in this long???? I'm about to go Rambo!
ToddAC: Think DS and FxGF broke up because your DS doesn’t have anatomically correct shakers?
bigger,
Oh no, DS1's shakers are very anatomically correct and actually, he broke up with her. Of course, he broke up with her a year ago and it lasted two months.
Wouldn't it be MORE disturbing to have anatomically correct turkey shakers? Thinl of the pepper shaker & the mess that might leave.
OTHO, if she was making a joke she's just bad company & would have made a boring partner for your son.
Good point nams. She was making a joke that was not a joke. I attended a convention and the guest speaker was an American living in Japan. The audience including a worldwide body. The speaker said that in Japan, it is customary to begin a speech with an aplogy and in the US, it is customary to begin a speech with a joke. Not wanting to offend anyone he simply said: I apologize for not telling a joke. Kind of like that.
Here's what you do. Buy a cable that connects the phone to the a USB port on your computer. You can buy software that reads text messages, even those that have been deleted. If you are interested, let me know and I will look up the URL.
I should note that the software works for any phone that has a SIM card which most have these days.
Pio, how have you hung in this long???? I'm about to go Rambo!
A good friend of mine calls it "going Postal". Like when the disgruntled postman shows up at work with an AK-47. I like that expression - going postal.
There is no question I have stuck it out this long because of the DDs. That is not enough to keep me in a sham marriage but it has been enough to keep me going when I otherwise thought I couldn't.
WW told me on the phone that she missed me. I said nothing. It is strange because the first time I called her, the sound in her voice was all sunshine and lollypops. It just seems she is still clueless - or at least she was until last night. At least she knows how I feel.
I like the idea of telling H to consolidate phone service to save money. That's brilliantly subtle. It also shows serious apathy on your part. Pure genius.
I don't see why he is trying to go through the superficial motions of recovery...it will just make things worse in the long run.
2much....so that WS can say that he tried....just another way to justify his A....and...soon...because you won't be able to take it.... blame you for it not working out.... and for sure to NOT be responsible for the
Quote
suffering inflicted on your children, family, finances.
Quote
I'm about to go Rambo!
If you do that....it's exactly what WS is waiting for....
Quote
I'm getting close to needing complete detachment in order to preserve anything that may be left.
...keep a tab on this....sounds your LBank is way down....
2much...just wondering..... are you prepared to go to PLAN B if you need to? say...once you have ended your 'Pio pill'.... Please consider this BEFORE going Rambo...because this is exactly what WS needs...to blame YOU for not recovering M!
This has been my thought process for a long time. The theory goes that a big attraction of the A is secrecy. It is part of what makes the A so fun and exciting. Okay so your H is busted and you have exposed. He is still in contact and he hides it so there is still that adrenaline rush. If you accept the logic that the A thrives on secrecy, then extend that to post Dday. So the question I asked myself was how could I respond to something like finding a hidden cell phone or money stash that would mitigate the excitement? If you take the pleasure out of it for WH, it diminishes the A for the wayward. Take the pleasure out of the A and the A dies. What reaction can you have to give your H the least pleasure? Going Rambo will be like throwing gasoline on the fire.
The law I laid down to gemela was that I could not stop her from continuing her A. I simply would not allow her to do it with my money. If she wanted to continue her A, she had to do it on her own dime. So when I discovered things like hidden phone cards, that was the extent of my complaint. I didn't say don't keep calling - I just said don't use my money to buy the cards. I don't know for sure but I always believed that really cut deep into gemela. Maybe not. I simply gave her A as little importance as I could.
2much, I'm sorry to hear about your discovery of the cell phone.
I understand completely wanting your H to be a man, to come clean & stop the superficial attempt at recovery. I wanted exactly this from my then h & said as much, but I softened the be a man, at times. After it was clear he was only half way going through the emotions of recovery & pretending there was no OW I always wondered why. Just fess up & we move on.
I can only assume he wanted out & didn't want to do the work on himself & on our marriage to make it work.
I think he stayed, as Luna said, to say he tried. This way he could move on with a clear conscious.
I wish I had some advice for you but I was not in the same situation your are. Looking back, had the OW been acknowledged I truely don't know how I would have handled things. I said I would dealt with it with it but I don't know if I could have. The respect I wanted to feel for then h dissappeared & so did the love.
I like Todd's idea of finding out what's on the phone & Pio's idea of putting the phone in sight. Followed with a calm explaination of how this makes you feel with an explanation for what you need to stay in the marriage. Then really think about plan B if he doesn't come back with real remorse & transparent behavior.
If I had to take a guess at his behavior being better towards you I'd say it's because he thinks he's getting away with something. Like Pio said the secrecy adds to the excitment.
Thanks for all the input! Luna and Nams, I do agree he is giving a 1/2 hearted effort mostly for the kids sake so he can say he tried but the monster wife ruins everything so how could it work?
I will never have access to the new phone...he used to sleep with the old one and take it to the BR with him. I have only seen the box and instructions for the new one, thus I know it exists.
Todd, I would like the URL so that after my 30d course of the "Pio pill" I can have the opportunity to get old evidence for the sake of possible custody issues if this ends in D. I haven't bothered with the email spyware b/c we both know that no matter what the extent of his relationships with multiple OWs they have been inappropriate for M regardless of if they were EA/PA. We pretty much decided on disolution when he was having a tirade about getting a D.
I think Pio is pretty on target in that H thinks he is getting over on me or could care less if I knew or not. I feel just like Nams said...lets just be frank and deal with reality.
He is paying for the phone on his dime so I guess I shouldn't care...just need to get his old phone off the other phone acct that I pay for.
I don't think there is any need for plan B...I think as soon as his finances are in order and he can comfortably move out he will. I refuse to kick him out again b/c that is just another complaint to use against me. I will force his hand to make the decision himself and then he can deal with the reality of being without his children and loose his only stability in life for the past 11 years...me.
I will be able to sleep at night. DD1 has appt to see counselor so at least she will be getting some support outside of me. H keeps saying that she is mean...I told him that she detached from him in order to protect herself from the pain and rejection he inflicts. The fact that she refuses to speak to his female friends really isn't related to my M but her jealousy that he prefers to spend his time with them and not her and that he can't even go to an event of hers without including one of them. It's just all wrong and he refuses to accept it. He listens to what I say and then changes the subject or leaves...go figure.
Sheesh, you leave here for 5 minutes and it takes an hour to catch up. I feel like Luna did, I'm going to mention things that happened about 5 pages ago.
First, BigK, oops, sorry of course it's Australian football. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Todd, I wondered if anyone would mention the pizza.
Pio, thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I meant I could still remember the smell of the woo woo spray. I also have no comment to make on your feet.
Pio, I've been in the unenviable position of having had a very public fight with you on MB. English is my first language (although some would disagree) and I felt I gave as good as I got. However, you are a master at the cutting remark and icy sarcasm and I wonder how G copes when you go into "fight" mode. If you do, indeed, want your marriage to work you may want to consider how you talk to her when you're making your point.
I don't think you're even listening to her any more. You need to pave the way for her to come back to a better marriage for both of you and that means cutting back on the DJs.
2much, I'm sorry I have nothing to add. You said you didn't like it when you were "outside" on the main board and people asked why you were bothering. I know why you're bothering but you DO have an uphill climb with your H.
Below is a link to Paraben. The software is $129.00. There is another software from India that sells for $79.00. I will post it as soon as I locate the URL. The Paraben software seems to have more capabilities but I am not sure what the practical aspects are at this point.
Kiwi, You have a great memory...thanks for respecting that. I should probably invest in some rock climbing equipment eh???
At least amongst all this I still have a sense of humor. I am also taking better care of myself than I have for years. I look better than I have in years and have more time with my children.
If I could just extricate this crazed lunatic that cohabitats in here and...and what? I keep trying to finish the sentence but nothing works. I plugged in "get my real H back"...don't know who he is anymore. Then plugged in "get my old H back" but I don't want that either, we weren't happy for years. Then typed in "get the H I married back"...that wouldn't work either.
I thought about how if I met my H for the first time but knew everything about him that I do now what would I do? I would have to run the other way and fast.
I was thinking about it today though...what would life be like if I had a H that was my best friend/lover/adventure mate? I don't usually daydream but for some reason I pondered it today.
2much, I think everyone should have a best friend/lover/adventure mate and I wouldn't settle for anything less. In fact that is what I have and I know I couldn't go day to day with anything less. Life is SO short.
When my H and I were walking on eggshells with each other after d-day it was the first time in 30 years we had ever been uncomfortable with each other. I HATED it.
You need to type in "get back a better H and a better marriage than I've ever had."
Yes, but do they snuggle with you? Make snowmen, drink cognac, scream with fright and delight? Can they make you contort with laughter? Will numbers dazzle you, make you glow, have you yearning with desire?
Na, that's why I walk the crazed edge...the excitement, adventure, take your breath away moments. I couldn't settle for the sure thing, the secure, the predictable, the constant. Had many opportunities for just that and passed em all up for the spice. Guess I made my own bed in some respects but I'd rather have those moments than just security. That's why I'd pure stink at investments b/c I like the risk, the potential to do big things. Yep, I have been in the school of hard knocks all my life but am not quite ready to graduate I guess.
My personal favorite is Don Julio Reposado. It is hard to find outside of Mexico and the southern USA.
Just got a bottle of Don Julio 1942 as a gift... <drool> Very carmelly - smells of vanilla, like flan. No bite at all, goes down so smooth <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I didnt know tequila could taste THAT good.
Geeze, I feel bad now. I show up and the Regretted stuff re-emerges <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And, for the record, I had outted Tear/Regretted previously. She/it goofed on a post, changed it quickly, but I caught it and posted it. Then she/it got mad that I didnt delete her confessions and was very sure her/it's H would catch on, and felt very violated <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I think the gig was about up at that point, anyway. I think my advise was to seek serious psychotherapy immediately. She/it agreed. Whatever.
You never have to ask how to spell a number do you? Or how to write a number, or notation, or exponents, or formulas or any of the like. Numbers are always the same. Very dependable. Writing words is like playing tennis with the net down. But then, you are an English professor.
Yes, but do they snuggle with you? Make snowmen, drink cognac, scream with fright and delight? Can they make you contort with laughter? Will numbers dazzle you, make you glow, have you yearning with desire?
Naturally. I have even had them laugh with me. Or, was that at me? They will dazzle, make you glow and yes, have you yearning with desire. I'll give you a prime example, pun intended. When Gauss was in the fifth grade, the teacher instructed the class to take out a sheet of paper, write down the integers from 1 to 100 and then sum them. As his fellow students labored just to write down the numbers, little Gauss just sat in his desk thinking. He had the answer within moments without writing down a thing. Here's how he did it. He noticed that if he summed the high and low numbers, initially 1 and 100, the result was 101. Then each successive pair, eg, 2 and 99, 3 and 98, 4 and 97, etc was also equal to 101. He further reasoned that there existed 50 such pairs, hence the sum of all the integers was 5,050 (50*101). Now tell me that doesn't have you yearning with desire?!
Quote
Na, that's why I walk the crazed edge...
You want crazed edge? Take a ruler and a compass and construct a 17-gon. Now, there's a crazed edge!
Kiwi, Did Todd hit a trigger or are you just tired? Do you enjoy gardening as much as coffee and wine? I think it would be a great escape to have a vibrant thriving garden. I tend to neglect the poor flowers and episodically water and weed...not the best maintenance plan...visible consequences:)
2much, I suppose Todd did hit a trigger. It came, completely unbidden into my mind, that OM would have such a lot in common with Todd. I don't want those sort of thoughts THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Rob, on the other hand, could discuss literature with Todd till the cows come home and I much prefer it when we're talking about poetry and literature on here. It's dear to my heart and it's dear to Rob's heart.
Yes, I love gardening. I'm passionate about gardening. When I'm out in my garden I am truly happy.
Goodness. This thread just explodes. Turn your back for 5 seconds.....
Pio - I'm dense obviously. What about the shorts?
2Much - I like the idea of confronting him with his lies and asking him to go and live somewhere else. Plan B by any other name. Exactly how much disrespect can you bear?
What shorts? Has he been talking about pink shorts again?
Even Rob made a joke about pink shorts the other day after I told him what everyone had been saying on here.
He's just bought some Crocs to wear in the shop as he's on his feet all day. He bought khaki coloured ones. I said, at least you didn't buy pink ones. He said "you mean to go with my pink shorts?"
Thanks for the hugz BK. Apparently I can suck it up. I'll hang till the end of the month and keep my pact with Pio. I don't understand the dynamics inside my H's head. He said ILY 3x today which I ignored and didn't respond to since we agreed months ago to quit using that phrase since it was meaningless. He used it b/c he was very excited about something he purchased and was sharing his happiness with me. The third ILY he apologized and tried to clarify, I told him not to worry about it I don't take them to heart, I know it's just a reaction and has no meaning. He got sad and said not to take it like that and assured me he "still liked me". I just smiled and walked away.
It is amazing to me how the WS brain functions. He slipped about something else and said he didn't care about whatever explaination I was giving him...I replied, "Why don't we just quit pretending then..." he looked at me all annoyed and was like, "why you got to be like that?"
2much, BK askes a good question: "How much disrepect can you take?" I would add: What's the point? What's the benefit?
One of the stupidest things ex said to me during our false recovery was in response to my saying we couldn't recover our marriage if there was a third person involved. He looked at me with all seriousness & said "I'm curious, I'm not involved with someone else but if I were why not?" With the patience of a saint & speaking to him as if he were someone worthy of my love I explained why. A total waste of breath.
I just stopped in to see what was up. OS stayed home from his father's tonight (he's been finding excuses to not go for the last month or more) so we're going to watch more X-Files.
See y'all tomorrow. Let's see we're on page 231 now, by morning it ought to be up to what, 230/235?
'night all, sleep well for those of you with sleep in your near future.
Yes, I meant I could still remember the smell of the woo woo spray.
That part was obvious. I'm just curious how you got your nose into it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I've been in the unenviable position of having had a very public fight with you on MB. English is my first language (although some would disagree) and I felt I gave as good as I got. However, you are a master at the cutting remark and icy sarcasm and I wonder how G copes when you go into "fight" mode.
I honestly and truly speak with her on her level and only in Spanish so there is no confusion. Trust me. She has the advantage.
2much,
I now it hurts. I can only tell you that there is benefit to your patience and that benefit is to YOU. My marriage could end tomorrow and I would feel great because I know I did everything I could have. I never understood it until recently but Plan A is for YOU - not WH.
Sorry but if you don't have a sense of humor, it isn't safe to post here. Otherwise, bring it on. I've been trying to offend ToddAC for 8 months. I still haven't found the chink in his armor. Well, at least I have a goal.
I changed my number of posts per page in My Home so I am on page 70. While that seemed like a good idea, I now have metatarsal tunnel syndrome from my mouse wheel.
If you will honor your medicine, I can assure you that you will be happy you did. You will be able to look yourself in the mirror and smile and be happy with yourself. Don't play WH's game. Change the rules and play your game.
You may like to rephrase this or, perhaps, explain it.
What I mean is speak in Spanish because English is not that easy for her. I don't mean talk down to her. I just mean speaking in a language where we have understanding.
And this is my FINAL word on woo woo spray. You didn't need your nose anywhere near it (now that conjures up a picture and a half), you just sprayed the stuff and the whole HOUSE could smell it.
Well I did say I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Never having used the spray myself, I have a limited frame of reference. OTOH, maybe after my papsmear that 2much recommended, I'll feel the need.
One of gemela's comments is that she and OM could talk about anything. In that same comment, she said they could barely understand anything the other said so they constantly had to repeat everything. Gemela can function in English but she understands Spanish. I also admit that there are things I do not know how to explain in Spanish.
I really hope I haven't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Isn't this the night he goes out for Mexican food? I hope that's where he is.
Talk about anything?? With that poor excuse for a person. Yes, I'm sure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I just got off a very very long phone conversation with WW. Or should I say lecture, on her part? She was drunk. When she is drunk there is no reasoning with her so I decided to let her say whatever she wanted to say. She wanted to talk about my exposing her affair. She cannot believe I did it. I asked her which was worse: her affair or my exposing her affair? She said exposure. Did I mention she was drunk?
She said that by exposing her affair, I brought other parties into our marriage which should be between just the two of us. I asked her if she felt so strongly about keeping a marriage between the two of us why did she bring OM into our marriage. She said that was different, that they didn't have an affair, that they were just friends. I told her that there is a book entitled "Not Just Friends". She reminded me that all analysts are crazy and all they want is your money. One thing I learned a long time ago is that you cannot argue with a fool or a drunk.
The conversation went nowhere. She said that I hurt OMXW. That I hurt the kids. That I hurt her Dad and friends. I asked her if she felt like she had any part of it and she said no. She said that I should have known there were marital problems and tended to them. I asked her if she thought that maybe, just maybe, my brain tumor had something to do with me shutting down. She said no, that I don't have a brain tumor and that she had no choice but to respond to OM's advances.
I finally shut down. She wanted to lecture like her Dad and I let her for a few more minutes then told her bye and hung up the phone. She called back and I did not answer. She is a cheater, an alcoholic and a lair.
Next time hang up the phone. It is hard enough to reason with a sober WW. I am glad you brought up that she was the first to bring others into your marriage. You were spot on. No matter what has happened or what will happen, WW owns this. She cheated. The rest is just consequential damage.
I'm pretty sure England didn't even make the final. Italy won but, like all Mexicans, you stopped watching very early on so I can understand why you didn't see it.
I meant the other football, the one with the funny 'ball' and that's played by very rough, masculine guys. Not the American football... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I know I should have hung up the phone. I have done a very stupid thing over the past few weeks. I have allowed myself to believe that R was possible and it set me up for more hurt. She is either confused, under the spell of OM or best friend or is going crazy, or perhaps all three. I am not sure why I listened to her but I did. It is very depressing.
Todd, sorry about that WW's lecture. What's her explanation of the doctor's opinions and exams and treatment you have had?
Larousee,
I didn't bother to ask her. She is still in such denial it is amazing. What I believe is that in her mind, if she admits that I was ill and her reaction was to have an affair, she cannot deal with that. She was raised with good values and very conservatively so denying my tumor is a coping mechanism for her.
Well I have been watching over these past weeks and what I saw was that you pumped yourself up to believe in R because several posters challenged you to do it. Nothing wrong with that BTW and I am often thankful for the encouragement I get. But I saw you do an about face on the R issue without any change in behavior from WW. So yes you set yourself up for a fall. The question of whether R is still possible or not remains unchanged. Your WW's behavior remains unchanged. Since you are in Plan B, you really need to maintain strict NC. Your plan is having it's effect. You are doing quite well. But your best chance for R is to NOT talk to WW IMHO.
Todd, I know your sons' reaction spurred you on to think about reconciliation but, seriously, it is still your life and you would be setting yourself up for extreme unhappiness, whereas your son will get older and get a relationship and a family of his own.
Look, if I can face that I behaved like an immature, selfish 5 year old then anyone can, whatever their culture, background and nationality.
Larousse, the rough game you are talking about is indeed rugby. NZ is hosting the rugby world cup in 2008. BigK is talking about Australian Football, slightly rougher than rugby and only understood by Australians.
Dan Carter may have a girlfriend, I'm not sure about that. Not only is he goregous to look at but he's a genuinely nice guy and a brilliant rugby player.
My comment about the Dan football player and the comments about how you talk to G made me think about something you mentioned. I think you were in Arkansas with G and you bought and Enquirer and there was a lurid* story about some celebrity and you asked G what would she do if she would find Brat Pit in a hotel corridor...
She answered that she didn't know and you wrote that you were f*d up with her lack of understanding about infidelity impact or what her behavior should... something like that.
I was thinking that the affair changed many things in your relationship and that things in the past could have been inocent now you would look them under other eyes.
Frankly if you asked me that, about Brat Pit, I do like him and I would have made a checky* comment like, I would have taken a picture of him running away from a crazy fan or I would have been so petrified that I would have done anything or I would pretend to be from the Hotel Spa and told him that the administration was sending him a free masage.
What I want to say about the way you reacted in the context you told us, is that I have the impression that you set G for failure sometimes. Your questions was very tricky and really borders fantasy. She can't answer you in the way she may had done preaffair but at the same time she doesn't know the answer you are waiting for. Instead of waiting a specific kind of answer from her that shows she has reflected about the consecuences of her affair you could have mentioned to her in a calm, not lecturing style that since the affair you were much more sensible to infidelity in the Media. Maybe even comment that you need from her to understand that infidelity is unaceptable in a marriage.
My impression is that you keep hurting yourself, you are not letting go and you don't tell her exactly what you need from her to let go. On the other hand you need to make yourself attractive to G, even now. There is nothing wrong with sharing some cheerfulness and chit chat. You can set your boundaries and your requirements without being an ogre.
I was reading the Four Negotiation rules here on MB and the secind condition is a cheerful attitude.
You have said that SF is not one of your main EN and that you would tell G so if she just would ask. Why don't you tell her that, what are your EN, how she can fullfil them. If after you have discussed your needs with her and how you need them to be filled if she doesn't do it then you can feel disappointed not before.
yesterday Orchid posted something to a dad of three children, something like: He would get more if he gave less. It's my impression that you have a hard time verbilizing what do you need from her and how and that you end doing too much for her and then you resent her.
Loving her, making her fall in love with you doesn't mean to me to pamper her, spend on her or giving your time and resources to please her. To me the subtle process of be kept on my toes, to be pasionate about a man, has more to do with his own personality, how he moves himself in the world.
MB is not against recover pasion and keep a pasionate marriage. There are many things you can do, doing less to arise G pasion. Being affectionate but not sexual. Just a barely there physical contact.
I feel silly writing about this but I have seen a serious poster writing about it to a BS. She mentioned to him the importance of his appearance, his hygiene, some new clothes, all in his style and budget but that showed a man that takes care of him. Personally I like manly underweare with style. No baggie cotton. Maybe those things are not important, yet, for G they may be important as she seems updated in fashion and things like that.
I feel today you got very interesting advice from several posters, why don't you separate it, maybe post it in a word document, think about it.
After the initial reaction on WW's part, there was change in her. But that was a sober WW. Drunk WW is a different person. She will not enterain that she is an alcholic or that she even has a drinking problem. Tonight, she returned to square one dated March 2006.
sorry about that. Could you consider a chat with the Harleys? Recently I have been listening to their radio program and it's very interesting to get the 'original' version of his theories. He presents his sessions as Marriage coaching more than Marriage counseling and maybe under that idea it would sound less 'crazy' to your WW.
If she indeed has an addiction things get much more complicated...
My impression is that she has realized that she wants her marriage back but without giving anything back. This is a DJ but maybe she realized that at her age it won't be so easy to get a husband like you again. Oops.
Hahahaha Todd. I'm drinking tequila. Lol. Actually I'm drinking a charro negro, like a black cowboy, lol. It's coke with tequila.
By the way. Sorry Drucilla. Don Julio is a brand that has barely 20 years of existance. The tequila might be from 1942 and was bought by the brand recently.
This is going to sound contradictory because here I am on the MB website, but I don't like Harley's philosophy and approach. I am going to see Frank Pittman here in Atlanta, if and when I ever get to drive again.
I'm glad that you are going to see Pittman, I'm very curious actually.
I like Harley's philosophy because it seems so simply and at the same time it requires so many changes and changes in the only person we can change, us.
I'm secret fan of LovinAnyway too. She has a way to put the ball back on the personal responsability court.
Also I don't ask about your health because I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable but I'm curious about the results of the results. I meant, the doctors mesured the impact of the treatment and they didn't see a change and then they were going to make an assesment or something like that?
Todd, I know you don't like the Harley's philosophy and from what I've read you say about Frank Pittman he certainly sounds like he's very good, but to be honest, HNHN really struck a chord with me.
Todd, you must know your wife like the back of your hand. I know that after 32 years of marriage to Rob, I know him better than I know anyone on earth.
Do you talk with each other like a "married" couple or has too much happened. I said a while back on here that d-day and the months after were the only times Rob and I ever felt uncomfortable with each other.
Not sure where I'm going with this. I think perhaps I'm saying that there has to be some common ground and history where you still connect.
Larousse, I also agree about the Brad Pitt comment. However, I would say "don't be stupid, of course not" if Rob asked me a question like Pio asked Gemela.
Most people get the difference between celebrities and "real" people. Rob has a real thing for Marianne Faithfull (when she was young and beautiful) but it's not threatening, it's just one of those "yeah, they're gorgeous, but they're nothing to do with my real life and I wouldn't even want them to be."
I'm glad that you are going to see Pittman, I'm very curious actually.
A woman posted on the other site that she had gone to see Pittman and that he was "chauvinistic" and expensive. I will be sure not to wear a skirt that day.
Quote
I like Harley's philosophy because it seems so simply and at the same time it requires so many changes and changes in the only person we can change, us.
Harley's approach is not without merit. He is extremely pro-marriage which is laudable. His entire approach is geared towards saving marriges which again is good. Where I have the problem is when he says that problems in the marriage made the affair possible, but that an affair is never acceptable or words to that effect. If that is true, then whenever problems exist in a marriage, which I submit are the vast majority at any point in time, at least one of the spouses will have an affair. The other point is that if his approach is true, why didn't the BS have an affair? I am not expressing myself very clearly tonight. I have had a couple of drinks but shhhh.... don't tell Pio. He will launch into a lecture.
When I spoke to G on the phone she said she was tired of being there and she wanted to come back here. I asked when she wanted to come back. She said the end of the month. I asked if she had made her reservations yet. She had not. Truns out that SIL may be spending another week in Cancun in October and G wants to go.
You become a little more aggressive especially in your feedback to Pio. I suspect that you, just as regreted/tear/et al, project your sitch onto Pio's sitch, especially his WW because of obvious reasons. But, I should add, you are always extremely intelligent and expressive. Pio and I agree that you are smarter than he and I put together which means your IQ is at least 100.
Quote
Also I don't ask about your health because I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable but I'm curious about the results of the results. I meant, the doctors mesured the impact of the treatment and they didn't see a change and then they were going to make an assesment or something like that?
I am to get another followup MRI thirty days after the last one whenever that is. Hopefully, that one will show some progress. Or is it regress?
Harley doesn't say that whenever problems exist in a marriage one person will have an A. When Rob and I did the EN survey, turns out I was meeting every one of his needs and then some. His meeting of mine wasn't quite up there.
Rob's top EN is SF, which I've met enthusiastically and willingly (and because I've wanted to because it's right up there for me as well) for 32 years. I asked him once, what if I withdrew SF, or wasn't as enthusiastic as him, how would he feel about our marriage then. He said that would be a whole new ball game.
You now seem very concerned about my hygiene. I can only infer that it is in reference to my feet. If you have any suggestions as to what I can do with my feet, I am very interested. Don't keep me on my toes.
Todd, you must know your wife like the back of your hand. I know that after 32 years of marriage to Rob, I know him better than I know anyone on earth.
Do you talk with each other like a "married" couple or has too much happened. I said a while back on here that d-day and the months after were the only times Rob and I ever felt uncomfortable with each other.
Not sure where I'm going with this. I think perhaps I'm saying that there has to be some common ground and history where you still connect.
As you know, WW is Latin. She is very excitable. I am very calm but extremely intense. When we talk about contentious subjects, my approach is to let her say what she has to say while I remain quiet and then I say my part while she remains quiet. The problem is that she approaches discussions very differently from me. She says her part and then when I get three words out, she interupts and starts arguing. I guess you could say is more interactive than I. Frankly, it drives me crazy. After she starts, I have one of two choices: talk over her and start a screaming match, which she seems to love and I hate, or shut down. If she is sober, I generally will wait for her to wind down and she will eventially realize her folly and allow me to talk. If she is drunk, well you can connect the dots.
One of the things she told me tonight was that she found it easy to talk with OM. I asked her what that meant. She couldn't put her finger on it. Either he sits there like a statute or he is also intereactive. But then, he is her soulmate so what would you expect?
Sorry, Todd, I can't help you with that. Rob and I have never fought. I've never fought with anybody (except Pio) in my life.
Rob and I have always treated each other with respect and if we do feel unhappy with each other we tend to clam up, rather than say anything that would hurt the other.
You knew you were getting an excitable Latina when you married her. Something about that must have been appealing to you.
When we went to the party the other night, I was rushing around kissing and hugging and "OMG you look great" to everyone. If Rob did that I'd faint clean away. I asked him if he minded that and that he must know that's what I'm going to do. He said it was part of me.
You now seem very concerned about my hygiene. I can only infer that it is in reference to my feet. If you have any suggestions as to what I can do with my feet, I am very interested. Don't keep me on my toes.
Put your feet up on your table saw and cut off an inch on each second phalanges. That should fix you right up.
Todd, I appreciate that you point out to me that I was a little agressive towards Pio. You are right that I project my issues on his issues on so many levels it's scary.
I'm sorry Pio, you have always been very patient with me and I have always felt that by allowing me to say my mind to you, you make me a favor. I mean I reflect about what I wrote and why and your answers and others answers and I keep learning.
Pio hasn't say I think but G birth place is famous for it's pretty women and their feminity. That state, Tabasco is in the coast, people is very friendly and feisty, they love to dance and celebrate. I have read G chats and posts and I don't feel identified with her on a generational level or family background. Maybe I see myself when I was deeply in love with a man older than me. Dunno.
I sincerly try to see his situation under MB perspective but I also see myself in him sometimes in the sense that I have the impression that he has a problem conecting the dots between his reactions, and what was the original feeling that caused them. Also I identify with him when he expects specific reactions of behaviors. I was like that, like I think he might be sometimes but maybe I'm wrong. Now I feel so liberated that I can speak my mind and say what I need and how. I also learnt somethign invaluable. Nobody makes me do anything, I have free will.
I have the impression that Pio get's easily ofended by G reactions now and that he forgets that he has a saying and that it's ok that he explains to her how things make him feel. I think G wants to stay married to him and that she likes him, physically but also that she fights with some lack of enthusiasm to go bac to an adversarial partner.
He has a saying, he can say, I preffer that you come back to SA right now or when we had decided or whatever are his desires. The more he can get in touch with what he really wants, really deep down, in his heart of hearts the less frustrated he would feel.
Sorry Pio, I talked about you as if you were not here.
Pio, sorry I was not talking about your hygiene, more like something I was thinking about these days. The comment I mentioned, done by Peachy something... was done to Dazedandconfused some months ago. His XWW was deeply pasionate about her OM and she suggested him to have somekind of makeover. Maybe I thought about that comment, Peachy comment because of Pool boys pics, his personal beauty aside, he's groomed, some fashion clothes, maybe bad clothes taste. Lol. I don't mean to disrespeact you Pio comparing you to pool boy. Maybe you are groomed and smell nice always, I dunno.
Todd thanks for your comments. I don't feel my opinions are as valide as the opinions of other married members but I know that I'm sincere in my desire to learn and to have a fullfiling relationship and hopefully one day marriage. I had lost all hope on having a loving relationship because of my past experiences and MB has helped me tremendously to work on me and to learn to overcome my frustrations in a relationship.
I could certainly make an educated guess. After I bought SAA, we sat down and I asked her to complete the needs questionaire. She refused. She later threw the book away.
please feel free to continue to post your mind. I have never had any complaint about anything you have said. My only negative reaction to some of your posts is that, every once in a great while, your timing just seems off. For example, what you posted a little while ago does not seem relevant to me right at this moment. I am not saying it is right or wrong. It just seems other things have to happen.
For example, right now my highest priority is to do something about my feet - if possible.
Second highest is Gemela has to commit to the M.
One thing that I thought was strange about ToddAC's post a couple of weeks ago when he decided to R. He just decided it. He was going to make it happen. It takes two. ToddAC couldn't do it alone and neither can I.
I had an eyelash stuck in my right eye. Ouch. Ok, I had to come back so Nam is not disappointed and the tread reachs the 235 in excess.
Pio I have the impression that you keep getting signals from G but somehow the 'recovery' doesn't start. Someone mentioned to you yesterday that you have to guide her and I agree with that point of view. For instance, she says she doesn't want to divorce, instead of saying that you may want to divorce, you explore her thoughts, she doesn't want to divorce, then what does she want? How does she think you two could achieve what she wants? Then you say your mind. What do you want, how do you think it could be achieved... Etc.
This week listering Mb radio it was repeated in several contexts that a couple shouldn't be separated unless there are justified reasons and that a Plan B should be seen as the begining of a divorce. Just the last mesure. Unless blatant continuos infidelity or other problems the couple should remain living together and working on their issues.
Pio going back to your present dilema. I would say that it was a long enough vacation for G to spend time with her family and that the decision to come back to SA should be taken by the two of you together and no by her alone. Also she may not had reached the maturity level to understand that the independent behavior of going to Cancun with her sister is unaceptable but you have a right to tell her so. Nicely. Reclame your place as her husband. Work on the relationship on the process and don't wait anylonger for a declaration from G. She says she doesn't want to divorce. That's good enough to start to see her position on the other issues.
About your feet, they seem fine. I asked BF a pic of his feet to post here. He has lovely feet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Personally I preffer square short toe nails. It's ok to have them short if they are cutted frecuently, the risk of them going inside is when they are left to grow after had been cut short for a long while. (This is hillarious.) I think you get extra points for having healthy toe nails, no deformation or other ET organisms. Lol.
Todd I understood the descriptiveness of your comment, ty. By the way next Mexican night you have to ask for a Hupango, another rythm, very poetic sometimes, and I song that goes like...
Por la lejana montaña va cabalgando un jinete vaga solito en el mundo
You take that to the Mariachi and they should know it for sure. Lol.
Well DDs and I went to Al Zamil store last night (a sort of Saudi version of Hobby Lobby) and we have been making and painting tombstones. In the car on the way back, DD1 said she wished nobody ever had to die. I told her that we all had to die - otherwise there would be no place to park. It was okay to die because then we can go to Heaven. She asked me if I was going to die. I asked her if she was worried about that. She said I had a grey hair. Then she asked me if when mommies and daddies go to Heaven, do they look after their little girls.
Now today she says she hates her sister and DD2 did something to DD1 but neither one is willing to tell me what it was. DD2 got spray paint all over her hands and was tired of painting so I sent her inside. DD1 and I finished the tombstones. I came in and heard DD2 crying. The maid was removing the paint from her hands and feet with a brillo pad. I could have killed her. I will say that DD2 won't need to exfoliate for a while. Poor little thing.
Next time hang up the phone. It is hard enough to reason with a sober WW.
Todd...I am with Pio on this one.... unless you are into torturing yourself!
....particularly if you have made it clear to your WW to only come knocking on your door if she is prepared to consider to meet your conditions for R.
Quote
If that is true, then whenever problems exist in a marriage, which I submit are the vast majority at any point in time, at least one of the spouses will have an affair.
Todd...I don't think he is saying that. You forgot the word you yourself used: POSSIBLE. Problems in a marriage...or difficult periods...do exist in all marriages.... how they are handled is what will make the difference...depending on the people involved..... some turn to A and disconnect further.... some, in the face of problems, unifies them more. In times of problems, the M is vulnerable, which I suppose is why he advocates his 4 rules.... if they are maintained...the risk of M being vulnerable is greatly reduced, and therefore the chance of one of the partner choosing an A would be reduced.
Well just wonderful. I was eating celery taking advantage of WW's absence. She won't let me eat celery or dill pickles. Nothing she can do about it now. Anyway, I was about to throw the ends and leaves away and decided to give them to the hamsters instead. I found that one of the cage doors had been left open. I did a head count and we are sans one hamster. I am furious. Naturally nobody takes credit for leaving the cage door open.
I also found the sprinkler has a hole in it so sprays the neighbor's yard while watering mine. DDs have three friends over playing and it is near chaos. As with everything in Saudi, I just opened the Halloween decorating kit that the DDs wanted last night only to find that all the paint bottles are completely dry. And worse than having a runaway hamster is not knowing whether it is inside or outside. Has anyone ever seen the movie Johnny Got His Gun (1971)? That's all I can think about - Johnny's (Joe's) recurring nightmare.
And as if it couldn't get any worse, I was just soaking my feet and planned to try my new pumice foot scrub. I admit I didn't read the directions when I bought it but apparently I now need something called a loofah.
Oh, this is even better. DDs and friends are playing with the two remaining hamsters. They currently have them on the kitchen floor running lego mazes. Maid decides to take advantage and clean the hamster cages. Well, she found hamster #3. It had passed in its sleep and had a little smile on its face. Now, the bad news...the maid comes back in the house and says "Valeria, I found your hamster. It's dead". Fortunately DD1 didn't hear exactly what she said. I quickly ran out and told the maid to shut up. At least I don't have to think about Joe's nightmare.
Todd...I don't think he is saying that. You forgot the word you yourself used: POSSIBLE. Problems in a marriage...or difficult periods...do exist in all marriages.... how they are handled is what will make the difference...depending on the people involved..... some turn to A and disconnect further.... some, in the face of problems, unifies them more. In times of problems, the M is vulnerable, which I suppose is why he advocates his 4 rules.... if they are maintained...the risk of M being vulnerable is greatly reduced, and therefore the chance of one of the partner choosing an A would be reduced.
Hi Luna,
Affairs also occur in happy marriages not beset with problems. And there are marriages with problems in which affairs never occur and my guess is that there are more marriages with problems which don't experience infidelity than those which do. I don't doubt or question Harley's motive, just his logic.
The reason I like Frank Pittman so much is that he is straight forward and is not a WS apologist. Not even close. Below is part of an article written by Pittman. The italicized portion is the myth of infidelity followed by his correction.
Affairs are ultimately the fault of the cuckold. Patriarchal custom assumes that when a man screws around it must be because of his wife's aesthetic, sexual, or emotional deficiencies. She failed him in some way. And feminist theory has assured us that if a wife screws around it must be because men are such [censored]. Many people believe that screwing around is a normal response to an imperfect marriage and is, by definition, the marriage partner's fault. Friends and relatives, bartenders, therapists, and hairdressers, often reveal their own gender prejudices and distrust of marriage, monogamy, intimacy, and honesty, when they encourage the infidel to put the blame on the cuckold rather than on him or herself.
One trick for avoiding personal blame and responsibility is to blame the marriage itself (too early, too late, too soon after some event) or some unchangeable characteristic of the partner (too old, too tall, too ethnic, too smart, too experienced, too inexperienced). This is both a cop-out and a dead end.
One marriage partner can make the other miserable, but can't make the other unfaithful. (The cuckold is usually not even there when the affair is taking place.) Civilization and marriage require that people behave appropriately however they feel, and that they take full responsibility for their actions. "My wife drove me to it with her nagging"; "I can't help what I do because of what my father did to me"; "She came on to me and her skirt was very short"; "I must be a sex addict"; et cetera. Baloney! If people really can't control their sexual behavior, they should not be permitted to run around loose.
There is no point in holding the cuckold responsible for the infidel's sexual behavior unless the cuckold has total control over the sexual equipment that has run off the road. Only the driver is responsible.
While I admire your ardor, I have to ask myself what relevance this has to anything that you and I are facing right now. IMO you need to just let this go. Okay so you don't like the kool-aid here. You know my opinion as well. What difference does it make right now why your WW had the affair? It might some day in the future - but not right now.
Good morning/evening y'all (tee,hee this is the only place I use that very usefull word, y'all). My New England born family would look at me askance were I to great them with a y'all. Hey! that might just be fun.
Todd, for the life of me I can't understand why you encourage your WW to repeat herself in a drunken state. Maybe it's a way for you get yourself to find her less attractive.
At one point in the course of one our dead end discussions about our relationship I said to then h who had a blank yet deer in the head lights look "When I see that expression on your face I want to bash your face in.". This in a marriage characterized by non-confrontation. My point is that I used to conjur up that look when I wanted to have another fruitless R talk with then h. I digress.
My main question to you Todd is, if your WW is an alcholic & all bets are off concerning the recovery of your marriage until she deals with that, why do you think she can be rational? One of the very first things competent therapists say is what ever addictions are in place must be dealt with BEFORE the marriage can be worked on in a meaningful way.
I agree with you about the WS taking full responsibility for an affair despite the state of the marriage. My opinion is affair people are in a selfish state. They see difficulties & run because they don't have the inner strength to deal with them. Couple that with their feeling of entitlement, the feeling they are owed something eciting which you aren't providing, something just for them etc. Off they go to the greener side.
A marriage can be in a bad place & if we don't take it head on the selfish child, as kiwi pointed out, goes in search of a feel better fix. That is the WS's choice & theirs alone.
Pio, you asked why your WW's behavior bothered you. I'll take a stab at that. 1. She wants to come back because she's bored. Not a lot of growth in terms of examining her behavior. 2. She wants a vacation in Cancun after her vacation in Mexico. This after you expected her Mexico visit to be a time for her to get her s..t together regarding your marriage.
While I admire your ardor, I have to ask myself what relevance this has to anything that you and I are facing right now. IMO you need to just let this go. Okay so you don't like the kool-aid here. You know my opinion as well. What difference does it make right now why your WW had the affair? It might some day in the future - but not right now.
It started with larousse, I believe, suggesting that I get IC with Harley. Since then, I have been answering questions.
Know what I expect/am waiting for from WW? For her to say that she had the affair because she was attracted to OM, felt lusty and wanted to hop in bed with him. Just as Pittman's article depicts, WW blames her affair on me.
Even though my ex WS never admitted to his affair, well current live in GF, he blamed me in his passive aggressive way while in MCing. Take responsibility? Pah leeeze! Just as he didn't have the inner strength to deal with our marital problems he didn't/doesn't have the inner strength to admit he was the weak one, the selfish one, to seek out another person.
Todd, though you may want the truth from your WW doesn't mean she has the capacity to provide it.
It would be nice, & I would like that for myself as well, but I had to move on without it. As you'll notice though I'm still dealing with it & not always in a non-angry way.
Myabe , just maybe Gemela wants to come back, because she is really regrettfull and really misses her family. She needs the benefit of the doubt. Pio will not know this, until he sees Gemela in front of him and hears her talk and sees her body language. Pio is bothered by what Gemela says, because he has already given up any hope of recovery for his marriage. He already "mentally" divorced Gemela. She emptied completely his love bank. Of course this is Gemela's fault, not Pio's.
Just like the Brad Pitt thing. I am not sure what importance it had today. Maybe it was just the tequila talking. That was a conversation I had with WW who should not have even been there. She should have gone to Mexico and not been with me in Houston. It was a fairly emotional time for me. It is also long past and I don't feel it was indicative of a deeper character trait.
We have to accept that, for whatever reason, our WW's cheated on us. Nobody put a gun to their head. My WW invited pool boy over to the house knowing full well what was going to happen - she told me this. It was no accident. If she was unhappy in the marriage, there were other choices - including divorce. She can have one now if she wants.
What I have been asking myself the past day is why I would ever want her back? She has hurt me more than anyone ever could. She has not the slightest remorse. She would take up her A again in a heartbeat given the opportunity. She makes me miserable when she is around because I know she lies. What surprise does she have in store for me next? Basically I think she has zero respect for me. And, after all that, I should just welcome her with open arms? What is my motivation?
Sorry for the vent. I have been really depressed all day after reading a particular post. Just pretend I'm not here.
Myabe , just maybe Gemela wants to come back, because she is really regrettfull and really misses her family. She needs the benefit of the doubt. Pio will not know this, until he sees Gemela in front of him and hears her talk and sees her body language. Pio is bothered by what Gemela says, because he has already given up any hope of recovery for his marriage. He already "mentally" divorced Gemela. She emptied completely his love bank. Of course this is Gemela's fault, not Pio's.
Le diste al clavo. I will give her the opportunity to speak. I will listen and make no LB's, DJ's. I honestly do want to hear what she has to say. I promised her when I spoke to her that she would get that chance. I promised her that I will wait to decide what I want until after she speaks. That's all I can offer right now. I think it is more than fair.
Well, I am glad that you are giving her the opportunity to show whats really on her mind. Maybe she has really analized her mistakes and is truly regrettful.........or maybe not. But you will not know this until you see and hear her.
I'm sorry you're depressed Pio but it's to be expected, no?
Do what you have to do to answer the question do you want G back. You're not afraid to ask yourself the hard questions. Do you want her back because going through a D is horrible? Or do you truly love her? Does she need to change into another person for you to want her for a W? Is she capable of that?
Try to keep bitterness out of your internal debate otherwise it with color your perceptions & your desires.
Are you interested in sharing what post had this effect?
Do what you have to do to answer the question do you want G back. You're not afraid to ask yourself the hard questions. Do you want her back because going through a D is horrible? Or do you truly love her? Does she need to change into another person for you to want her for a W? Is she capable of that?
Let's see what she says when she gets back. I am not afraid of divorce if it comes to that.
It is difficult for a WW to not empty the BH's love bank. It is the only logical result from continued betrayal.
You raise a good point Myrta. Pio can only know G's intentions when he sees her & speaks to her.
I do think he needs to be clear with himself about what he needs, what he can expect, & what G is capable of.
For me, I would have taken then h back in a heartbeat even during the beginning phase of our D without taking into consideration my needs for a happy future marriage. Even knowing MB principles & believing their worth, I felt I could fix more than I really could doing the work alone.
Are you interested in sharing what post had this effect?
No because I don't want to discourage anyone from posting what is on their mind. We are not here to placate my feelings. We are here to try to see if recovering my M is possible and what I need to do to achieve that. Criticism is always welcome if it is meant constructively. So far the only person who has not tried to be constructive is regreted. But her posts never bothered me either.
For me, I would have taken then h back in a heartbeat even during the beginning phase of our D without taking into consideration my needs for a happy future marriage. Even knowing MB principles & believing their worth, I felt I could fix more than I really could doing the work alone.
Well I won't discuss it here because I always wonder if G is a lurker but bigKahuna has made a very compelling argument in the past to do exactly what you suggest. I remember it daily.
WW just called to apologize for her conduct last night. She said that she had just returned from having dinner with a friend whose Mother committed suicide and that it put her in a "funny" mood and that is why she took it out on me. I told her that an apology followed by an explanation for what she did what she did was not an apology but an excuse. She didn't get it. I explained that an apology should stand on its own two feet and that when she tries to explain why she did something, she is shifting responsibility from her to, in this case, her friend's mother. I told her I had to go. It was a short conversation.
The one nagging thought I always stuffed to the back of my mind was, how would I feel about then h's betrayal when all was said & done had we recovered.
I was so h..l bent on recovering the marriage I didn't stop to think if I really could live with him after all.
You know, it's only recently, since I've come to this thread really, that I've dealt so directly with ex as a WS. It's been very helpful to me & a friend remarked on a change in my behavior toward ex just last night. She said I seemed more comfortable with him. I really think it has to do with coming to better terms with then h's betrayal & that it was his choice even if our marriage was in a bad state.
I was very quick to take on lots of the blame for our marital problems. Not so much that ex went to another person, but that he feel out of love with me based mainly on my behavior. Not allowing as much as I should have how his behavior toward me caused distance & problems between us. I feel out of love with him in our marriage but I recognized that, didn't want it & set about recovering my love for him.
Well the one nagging thought I always stuffed to the back of my mind was: why did you go from "nam" to "nams"?
Quote
how would I feel about then h's betrayal when all was said & done had we recovered.
I think a lot of that depends on WH's response to recovery. It is not fair to ask yourself this hypothetical and it is totally moot. If you had truly recovered then, by definition, you would have accepted it. At some point the wayward has to fight for the M too or there will be no recovery.
Yes, right, the WS has to fight for the marriage or there is no recovery. Clearly I was willing to settle for less.
I changed from nam to nams because a while back, before you joined MB, there was a restructuring of the boards. Many people were unable to sign in using their old names & had to make new ones to access the boards.
I doubt that. All of us embarking on a Plan A are settling for less. We are just hopeful that it will get much better. We also begin smothered in fear. Later we find out that the fear was groundless. For me to have a partial M to G is unacceptable. I respect me more than that.
Pio....the problem that I see with your love bank, is that Gemela never fill up your account too well. But you were a happy go lucky kind of guy, that was happy with "what" she was giving you, or "not giving you".
Thats why your "love bank" is completely empty. She has not been a good investor.
My oppinion of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I know I will be criticized for this but I have been struggling for a very long time trying to come up with my EN's. This has been very hard. I have wondered if I even have any. There is nothing in my life that would make me feel diminished by not having. I gave up pickles and celery for gemela and got along okay. I did love making Flash games but I gave that up for gemela. Now I have no interest in Flash.
I can't really think of things that make me happy. I was not unhappy prior to the A. Now I am unhappy with the WW. I have been fairly happy the last few weeks. I like my work again. I am very enthusiastic about what I am doing. It has almost gotten to the point that NOT living with gemela is my only EN. I say this openly because I want you to understand how difficult it is for me to want her back. I realize I have to give her the opportunity but I don't want it myself. This depresses me.
Maybe she will come back and say all the right things and change my mind. I just have to wait and see. I am not anxious about it and I'm not really looking forward to it. Time will tell. I am not completely writing off the M just yet but you were correct when you said I am mentally divorced. That is exactly how I feel. I was also advised to get myself into that frame of mind and it was good advice.
Sometimes I have seen things like OS in relation to a son from an affair. I think OC may mean something like that. I assumed nams meant a son instead of the OTHER thing but it is confusing.
ToddAC,
I see you have a lot of anger. Now I remember where I have seen you before. It was in the mirror when I was shaving this AM. You and I really need to get to the bottom of our anger and deal with it. I am telling you this as a friend. Your anger does not serve you. It masters you.
BTW,
I sent you an email. I need to talk. I will follow that one up tomorrow with more detail. I need your help.
I see you have a lot of anger. Now I remember where I have seen you before. It was in the mirror when I was shaving this AM. You and I really need to get to the bottom of our anger and deal with it. I am telling you this as a friend. Your anger does not serve you. It masters you.
What's that saying? Use anger as your servant, not as your master. Of course, that applies in business at the negotiating table.
You are right, no doubt. Anyone got any anger management ideas? I took an axe and went to the local piano store and chopped a Steinway grand into a million pieces. It felt really good until the police stopped me and took me for a ride. Anyone know how to remove ink from fingers? I tried a Brillo pad. It really hurt. I no longer have fingerprints but still have ink. How is that possible?
Changing the subject completely, DD sounded a bit homesick the other night when she called.
I'll be pleased to have her home. Only a couple of months now. She also told me she'd lost the diamond studs we gave her for her 21st when they were on the boat. Just before she went away she lost the diamond pendant her b/f gave her for christmas.
She said "I'm a diamond repellent." I certainly hope not.
now it hurts. I can only tell you that there is benefit to your patience and that benefit is to YOU. My marriage could end tomorrow and I would feel great because I know I did everything I could have. I never understood it until recently but Plan A is for YOU - not WH.
I agree Pio...it's better for me to take the high road here. Thanks for the words of support.
LOL! I didn't mean romantically dating myself...I meant that i was showing my age by remembering the Newly Wed Game <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Sorry if I caused any distress by using OS. When I use it I mean oldest son. I'll spell it out from now on.
Nobody is feeling funny tonight? Must be the day of reflection about WS, always a damper.
Here the weather is rainy so after breakfast we went shopping then plopped ourselves down to watch more X-Files. A very quite day.
While at breakfast we got on the subject of D. My son says such & such happened at a time when D was never discussed, when it was considered shameful to D. I said I think people are too quick to D, they run at the sign of trouble & difficult work ahead. He gave me that quick stare that made me wonder if he thought I was talking out his father & me. I guess I was.
I hate to break it to you all but as crazy as it is SF is the only commmon bond left in my M besides my kids sooooooooooooooo...
Ironically, looking at my ENs I feel like Pio in that I can't really isolate particulars except for conversation...
I have existed without the others and can't really decide which ones outrank the others. Pretty sick huh? Well, once I run out of work I will re-examine to see what my ENs really are
Update: did exactly what I said I would do re: new phone...H immediate response???? That's right, it's not his phone box...this explanation was followed by, "I think we ought to have a game plan; let's just plan on D in the spring and focus on just trying to be friends". I responded by verifying this is what he wanted, he said yes, I said it wasn't what I wanted but if that is how he wanted to proceed I would oblige. Several hours later I got a call and an apology that H was only trying to use this strategy b/c that way if we don't D things will only get better????
I am going to follow the advice for me to be calm and consistant in my behavior since someone has to be. I did go out with H last night for an hour and it was a disaster so when I got home, at H's suggestion, I went back out alone and didn't return until 0200. This created a bit of inquisitiveness on H's part although the only Q he asked was re: my return time.
Things get more interesting by the minute...he spent 3 hours of family time with us all doing things together and surprisingly it was about the best time we've had for months...now he is out for his night out. What the heck is that all about?
I got a call and an apology that H was only trying to use this strategy b/c that way if we don't D things will only get better????
Okay on the one hand it makes sense because WH has no deliverables so doesn't have to take responsibility for anything. In reality, R is solely the responsibility of the BS at first. Waywards don't want their marriage. That is why they are wayward. It is only after the WS begins to step through the threshold of FWS that they begin to take interest in R.
So if you want R still, the job is pretty much all yours. And that is the worst part of the Harley plan. You are hurt and abused AND have to save your M all by yourself.
I mentioned before that having a good family time was probably painful for gemela at first and probably hit her with a few pangs of guilt although she may not have recognized it as guilt.
It seems like you are making some progress even in a few short weeks. I also know that it is tough duty. It is a thankless job. I mentioned a long time ago that one of my disappointments with the Harley plan is this huge grey area that nobody talks much about. He is great on starting Plan A. He is great on R. But he never spends much time on this limbo in between the two. I feel like I am at a very dangerous time with respect to the possibility of R. I think if gemela looks at me cross-eyed, it might be enough to push me toward D. We may already be headed there anyway. Since I am effectively in NC, I can't know what she is thinking.
You have the advantage that H is still in your home. You will get to the point that your WH will decide to reconnect to the M or you will want D. Just a matter of who gets there first. I had to use multiple strategies to keep me going.
Now I feel totally deficient in EN's. I would like to take suggestions for EN's that I could adopt as my own. Any ideas are welcome. So far all I have is eating dill pickles. I no longer take pleasure in Oreos since I was deceived by clever marketing on their part. In fact, since WW left, I haven't craved chocolate of any kind. So please everyone give me your EN ideas.
My assessment is that you have EN for: sarcasm, analytical challenge, fixing things, being needed for more than financial reasons, attention even if it is negative, pedicures, organization, control, creativity...shall i go on???
I believe you may have something in your synopsis of my home sitch...it is quite chaotic...I appreciate the time and analysis you and the rest of the TKOers give to help me make it thru
Pio, I think you will soon get to decide how you will proceed. Take your own advice and be calm, make no assumptions and give G the respectful opportunity to state her case and give you her plan/strategy for recovery. Leave the stormtrooper somewhere else and be loving and warm if you can muster it up from within. Make the choice to be happy and try not to be snide or sarcastic...if you are like me these are my initial defense mechs that pop up immediately as soon as I feel threatened, insecure or unsure. Welcome her back as if the slate were clean and clear your mind/heart of as much bitterness and resentment as you can. If you need to write down all the things that make you bitter or resentful and go through some process of getting rid of them...burn the list, bury it in the sand, shred it, pour a chemical concoction on it...whatever symbolic act you can think of that will represent your release...you could put it in a balloon and let it go...possibilities are endless
Think about it as your last chance to make a difference, your final opportunity to make G feel safe in attempting recovery. Reassure her that you are as afraid and unsure as she may be but that you have to start somewhere. Make a plan together...she may feel intimidated if you present a plan...it may come off as demands
Be creative/romantic in how you will spend time discussing it so it isn't all business-like. Be sure you won't be interrupted...go somewhere where you are captive for X amount of time that way you will be pretty much forced to spend the time together and there will be no immediate escape if emotions run high
Todd, You should really consider stand-up as a second, career...
I am still laughing...I second the emotional effects of Maker's Mark and close relatives
I got on a roll of chocolate martinis last night and must admit not only got the emotions going but serious lack of inhibition as well... sewing my mouth shut probably wouldn't help under the influence as I would then speak out my a$$ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I must also confess that everything I said was true and it sure felt good...best part was I professed all this not to H...so no LB/DJ happening and I got it all off my chest...of course I did this all intentionally for therapeutic reasons <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I am still laughing...I second the emotional effects of Maker's Mark and close relatives
2much,
We must have the same close relatives. Mine are also a PIA.
BTW, Ben Franklin said that fish and visitors both smell in three days. If you think about it, it is true. We went through a terrible period some years ago where we had several episodes of long-term visitors. I asked WW if we couldn't have ol' Ben's saying embroidered on cloth, framed and hung in the guest room. She said no and that I was rude. So, no such luck.
We have friends who also recieved many long-term visitors and they told us the gauge of how bad the visitor situation is can be measured by how much bathroom tissue they use. It is a valid observation. Our visitors once went through 14 rolls in a week. And of course, we always bought the very best tissue money can buy. The next time visitors arrived, I was ready. I had gone to the store and bought the cheapest store brand tissue available. It was like sandpaper. They left in two days and used less than twenty percent of one roll. Small victories can be hard to come by, but boy are they sweet.
EPILOGUE
The next visitor we had was FIL. I forgot that the cheap tissue was still in the guest bathroom and on his first trip to the bathroom, primal screams filled the entire neighborhood. Again, small victories.
I will say that yesterday afternoon when all heck was breaking loose in the house, I locked myself in my room, filled the bath, lit some candles, dimmed the lights, put on some Mantovani and began to soak my feet. Then I quickly got out because I had this overwhelming fear that I might be gay! So now I am back to soaking without candles and music and I feel much more secure.
Seriously I did try to soak my feet but we could not go more than 2 minutes yesterday without "DADDY!". I told the DDs yesterday that we are going to make a new rule in the house. No more talking to floors and ceilings. If either one wants me for anything, they need to first come to where I am and then tell me about it. No more of this screaming "DADDY! DADDY! DADDY!" from one end of the house to the other. Somehow I don't think it will make any difference this new rule.
I put in the DVD of The Lost World yesterday and I am still on the subway with Jeff Goldblum. I think it may be a good things that I don't have EN's. I don't have time for them.
Quote
sarcasm, analytical challenge, fixing things, being needed for more than financial reasons, attention even if it is negative, pedicures, organization, control, creativity
While I will take ownership of some of those, I consider them character traits - not EN's. EN's are supposed to make you happy.
I got in a big fight with DD1 yesterday night. I asked her to take a shower. Apparently that was a big mistake. I learned that she does not like taking showers. She hates them, in fact. She said she would take one this AM. I said she could not go to bed as dirty as she was. She said she was going to and that she hated me. I told her she could hate me if she chose but that she was still going to take a shower. She stormed off downstairs to look for a suitcase to pack so she could leave. Then she gave that up and sat down at the kitchen table to paint Halloween decorations. I gave her a few minutes and then went down and told her that I was not happy that she was talking to me the way she was and that she needed to be respectful of both WW and me. If she was unhappy or upset, there were correct ways to get that message across. She replied that she wouldn't do anything I said and she was no longer part of the family. I replied that was fine but it worked both ways. I would no longer do anything she asked. If she was hungry or thirsty, she needed to take care of herself and she should not ask me. Then I went upstairs. About 5 minutes later she came up to my room where I had JUST hit the DVD play button for the 17th time of the day. I didn't look at her. She walked over to where I was and didn't say a word. I ignored her. She was trying to get my attention so I finally looked at her. She had painted in black paint on her white shirt "I Love U Daddy. Sorry".
Rereading your post for hiliarity...do you frequent movie theaters or just enjoy their goodies?
I never go to movie theaters. Every time I go, the same high school couple sits behind me and talks all the way through the movie. I finally got tired of it and had a home theater installed.
First of all ToddAC, what in your opinion is the best toilet paper? I ask because I have been on this quest most of my life - the search for the perfect toilet paper. The ones I hate the most are the ones where the two plys don't stick together very well and then in some law of motion that has never been clearly studied or explained, the plys get out of sync and the dotted lines don't match up.
BTW, the Mexican cure for getting rid of unwanted visitors is to take a broom and place it handle side down behind a door. I swear it works. I learned that from MIL.
Pio....the problem that I see with your love bank, is that Gemela never fill up your account too well. But you were a happy go lucky kind of guy, that was happy with "what" she was giving you, or "not giving you".
Thats why your "love bank" is completely empty. She has not been a good investor.
Myrta,
I can't stop thinking about this post.
There was another post yesterday that I can't find now but it asked how gemela would have to change. The problem with that is why should I expect her to change? Okay we all change to an extent as we grow but making her what I want her to be would be boring as all getout.
All I can say is that I am suddenly enveloped in indecision. I am the proverbial deer in the headlights.
The t-shirt is definitely "Chicken Soup for the Soul" material! Too cute...I bet you even got misty on that one.
I think that the "character traits" that were listed still count as ENs...could you/would you be happy without someone exchanging sarcastic remarks with you? A lack of creativity? Having no control (hitting home now)? Someone to describe your analytic thinking to? Perhaps they are character traits or qualities but I still think you need them to be happy. You would want to find these in G so that you could enrich your bond and not have to look to others to fulfill these needs. Don't you think this board is a substitute now for meeting these needs?
Ball 2. No. you are missing the point fundamentally. I do like control. But I am just as happy sitting back and letting someone else have it. Just as long as SOMEBODY is in control. Gemela can take the helm any time she wants. I have offered many times. It won't stick.
Can you give me an email address? I have something for you and it is just too good. otherwise I'll try to upload it tonight to my web site. hate to wait though.
I loved the T-shirt message, she killed you, didn't she. You are getting ready for hallowen* and I'm buying goodies for my younger sister for Christmas, she just loves anything and everything about it. I got her plastic table clothes, a white bear, that looks Tejan and a green candle, by the end of the month I'll have her Christmas supplies for three years.
You think I confused boyfriend, his birthday is next Monday and I got him a ceramic sckeleton, the kind sold in Mexico, all white and funny, he didn't say anything just gave me the look.
That is my point...you are currently miserable b/c no one is in control...limbo, stagnant, directionless. Remove the element of control from your M and you would be miserable right?
I had no idea you were a baseball fan...if you are gonna strike me out make sure ball 3 is a curve <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Now you7're all in serious trouble getting Mel's attention like that. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.
Todd - I have never heard Harley say the affair is the fault of the BS. He always says it is a choice of the WS as far as I know and I have read everything he has published I think.
What I really like about Harley is that he has the only recipe if you like for marital recovery - practical steps, do this that I have seen.
Pittman is one smart cookie when it comes to affairs but what is his plan for surviving them and building your marriage again. Harley has no peer as far as I have seen. Everyone's an expert at defining affairs and the reasons. Harley is the only one who has a viable plan for recovery. Certainly appeals to this engineer.
I swear on DD1's painted shirt I will never write one word to that address. I promise to keep everything here. All I sent was an MP3 file and ToddAC got it too. It was very relevant. No EA's here. I know the deal.
Now you7're all in serious trouble getting Mel's attention like that. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.
bigK is right. We need to try to stay below the radar. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
ToddAC,
What bigK is telling you is what I was trying to tell you. He just says it better than me. At the point you and I are at, Dr. Harley has a logical plan. You don't perform an autopsy on a living thing. Stop dissecting and decide first to either pull the plug or call for the crash cart.
Oh, I din't get the MP3 but I got a mail from the photographer of the site of photographies of Birds and animals of Baja California and he thought I was an American Captain that sometimes works with my older sister and her husband. He says he got several hits to his site from MB.
Oh too funny.
All the work is related to enviromental preservation issues. I hope I don't break any MB forum rules. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Forum rules are members of the opposite sex (or gay members of the same sex) cannot communicate by email. Too much danger of an EA breaking out. KiwiJ is absolutely right. She is just being right in a mean way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
That is my point...you are currently miserable b/c no one is in control...limbo, stagnant, directionless. Remove the element of control from your M and you would be miserable right?
I am miserable because I cannot get closure. This never was a true Plan B because we had an agreed upon termination date. Even so, I have tried to use it to the best advantage I could. But I no longer see any benefit to continuing this "vacation" and I don't think gemela sees any benefit either.
The limbo I refer to is the long-term period between Dday/Plan A and R. I am talking about the last 13 months of limbo - not the last few weeks. However, yes we are now in stagnation. NC is serving no useful purpose. In fact, what I am saying is that NC is probably now doing more harm than good in terms of possible R.
There have been some very positive things resulting. Both the DDs and I know that I can be a reasonably good single father. They are very comfortable with me caring for them. If being a single father for a long time is in my future, I no longer have any fear of it.
But now my detachment grows exponentially or, at the very least, logarithmically. We need to regroup and either try to set some groundwork for R or go to a true Plan B. I cannot leave the DDs hanging wondering when mommy is going to come home.
I once took a Mexican culture course and the instructor had a Mexico/USA map with the border drawn differently. It had Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and half of California shown as part of Mexico. He told us that the USA had taken the best part of Mexico. They took the part with all the major cities, all the high rise buildings, major airports, movie industry, computer industry...
What I really like about Harley is that he has the only recipe if you like for marital recovery - practical steps, do this that I have seen.
Pittman is one smart cookie when it comes to affairs but what is his plan for surviving them and building your marriage again. Harley has no peer as far as I have seen. Everyone's an expert at defining affairs and the reasons. Harley is the only one who has a viable plan for recovery. Certainly appeals to this engineer.
Hi BigK,
Excellent point and I agree.
I guess my problem these days is that WW is trying to place all the blame for her affair on me. It has made me a little sensitive to the subject and probably why I am fighting "the system".
Todd - a Geomatic Engineer - a Surveyor by any other name although I work in the mining industry these days with GPS based machine control systems for large pieces of earthmoving equipment.
I guess my problem these days is that WW is trying to place all the blame for her affair on me. It has made me a little sensitive to the subject and probably why I am fighting "the system".
ToddAC,
All waywards do this. Yours is no different. I wouldn't expect her to change her tune for a very long time. But bigK says that revelation may occur well after recovery has started. It shouldn't be a prerequisite for you. If it is, you will never move from where you are.
Why not POJA some "reasonable" guidelines to begin R with WW? I still can't figure out what it is you want. You are kinda all over the map on this. And I have to tell you that sooner or later those Mariachis are going to get pretty boring.
Exactly Pio - I think every BS starts by blaming themselves after D-Day. The WS certainly blames the BS because they have to justify their actions. Really it took my wife 6 months to truely "get it" to my satisfaction. Now she owns it all. But I readily agree I was equally responsible for the state of our marriage pre-affair just as she admits the affair was totally her choice.
I don't at all think that missing EN's from a marriage cause all affairs, but I do think in any affair EN's are met by the affair partner better than they are being met in the marriage.
Even in an otherwise good marriage there are ebs and flows. Sometimes the ebs coincide with an affair being offered. I don't know.
What I do know is that my wife won't be stupid enough to fall for that again.
There are a few issues. One is her drinking. I will discuss it with her but in the past my attempts have been in vain. Another is the fact that WW is currently in the mode of denying that an affair ever occurred. She says that OM was impotent due to prostate cancer in the past. She claims that they were just friends and all they did was make out. So, secondly, I want honesty. I don't believe R can be built on a foundation of lies. Finally, I want her to agree to basic conditions like IC/MC, NC, transparency, etc. She had resisted those in the past.
Which of the above is confusing and/or unreasonable?
Finally, I want her to agree to basic conditions like IC/MC, NC, transparency
Shouldn't be finally - it should be firstly
Quote
Another is the fact that WW is currently in the mode of denying that an affair ever occurred.
This is the one I think you have to allow her and it is the hardest one for you to swallow. I think honesty will come in time but you need to allow that time and not force the issue.
Quote
One is her drinking.
Wht not bring this up in IC/MC rather than confronting it yourself? Why say "I won't R until you stop drinking"?
Then what if you do get agreement on NC and she breaks it (as she likely will)? What are you prepared to do? That is a critical question to already be prepared for. Bigger gave me good advice on that and I think I followed it finally.
Problem is you have been hurt as nobody should be hurt and you want retribution. You want vindication because you are still a little guilty for having moved out based on the reaction from your sons after-the-fact. I believe that as R develops you will get all those things. But I don't think you will get them from day one.
Look at it from the wayward's perspective. If I suddenly woke up to the fact that I had betrayed the only one who truly loved me, abandoned my family, abandoned my very beliefs and morals, I think I might put a gun to my head. Denial is a very effective defense mechanism. Cut her some slack.
Wht not bring this up in IC/MC rather than confronting it yourself? Why say "I won't R until you stop drinking"?
Two reasons. She will not go to IC/MC. Doesn't Dr. Harley say that you cannot reconcile with an alcoholic until they address their addiction?
Quote
This is the one I think you have to allow her and it is the hardest one for you to swallow. I think honesty will come in time but you need to allow that time and not force the issue.
I just cannot move forward with R based on lies.
Quote
You want vindication because you are still a little guilty for having moved out based on the reaction from your sons after-the-fact.
he spent 3 hours of family time with us all doing things together and surprisingly it was about the best time we've had for months...now he is out for his night out. What the heck is that all about?
...my guess is...he put in some family time....so he will feel less guilty about given 'himself' time to do what he wants!
Quote
I think you will soon get to decide how you will proceed. Take your own advice and be calm, make no assumptions and give G the respectful opportunity to state her case and give you her plan/strategy for recovery. Leave the stormtrooper somewhere else and be loving and warm if you can muster it up from within. Make the choice to be happy and try not to be snide or sarcastic...if you are like me these are my initial defense mechs that pop up immediately as soon as I feel threatened, insecure or unsure. Welcome her back as if the slate were clean and clear your mind/heart of as much bitterness and resentment as you can. If you need to write down all the things that make you bitter or resentful and go through some process of getting rid of them...burn the list, bury it in the sand, shred it, pour a chemical concoction on it...whatever symbolic act you can think of that will represent your release...you could put it in a balloon and let it go...possibilities are endless
Think about it as your last chance to make a difference, your final opportunity to make G feel safe in attempting recovery. Reassure her that you are as afraid and unsure as she may be but that you have to start somewhere. Make a plan together...she may feel intimidated if you present a plan...it may come off as demands
Be creative/romantic in how you will spend time discussing it so it isn't all business-like. Be sure you won't be interrupted...go somewhere where you are captive for X amount of time that way you will be pretty much forced to spend the time together and there will be no immediate escape if emotions run high
Sorry, getting on a roll here
Boy!.....you are right, 2much, you are on a roll....you're giving Pio some great advice, I think!
Hi Todd,
Quote
Small victories can be hard to come by, but boy are they sweet.
...small victories are my thing, too! ...just love them when they happen! ...they actually take me a while to come up with....and so..all the sweeter!
Hi Pio,
Quote
While I will take ownership of some of those, I consider them character traits - not EN's
...this just reminded me...I just checked out LA's thread 'owning all your villagers'....thought I would start the exercise suggested....then I realized that all the characteristics that I dislike about others, not to say hated, are nothing less than characteristics about MYSELF! ...now...I do intend to pursue it and see where it goes....just to be fair to LA (whom I deeply trust)...but is/has anyone here done it? ...an can you reassure that I won't end up hating myself? ...because at some point I will need to be able to look at myself in the mirror! LOL.
....and it looks like from the thread's name.....although we don't know it..... we have a whole 'village' inside of us!...learn something everyday!
Quote
Somehow I don't think it will make any difference this new rule.
Pio...looks like your catching on! ....and as LA would say.... you will love your DDs....ANYWAY!
Quote
She had painted in black paint on her white shirt "I Love U Daddy. Sorry".
...OOOHHHH! ....one thing kids do best.....how to hit the spot!
Pio,
Quote
Okay I sent it to your Yahoo. Enjoy.
ToddAC,
I sent it to you too.
....and I suppose the rest of us are just chopped liver!
...I take that back...mp3 stuff?? way over my head!
Quote
This never was a true Plan B because we had an agreed upon termination date.
I agree, Pio, I don't think a separation with a termination date is effective..... PLAN B's termination date is either WS coming back deciding to meet 'minimum' conditions for R...or it will eventually lead to D...... a separation with a termination date...is really that...a vacation...which is OK....but...not much movement can be expected.
Quote
But now my detachment grows exponentially or, at the very least, logarithmically. We need to regroup and either try to set some groundwork for R or go to a true Plan B. I cannot leave the DDs hanging wondering when mommy is going to come home.
...now....that's a plan!
Hi Todd,
[/quote] I guess my problem these days is that WW is trying to place all the blame for her affair on me. [/quote]
...how about just getting your WW to committ to N/C with OM...and that as a married woman...she can no longer play the field....
...I would agree with...I guess that would be BigK.....if you are expecting her to take responsibility for A...FIRST....you may wait a long time! ....I think this...like remorse....comes much later on in recovery...when FWS feel....safe....to admit it!
Quote
Denial is a very effective defense mechanism. Cut her some slack.
Yeap...so true.....my WS is deep in it!
Hhhuuuu......finally got caught up....I think....but then, this post took me forever....I suspect a couple of pages have been added... keeping up with this thread can be a f/t job!
...it sounds like this may be one of your boundaries that needs to be respected for you to move forward..what would be called a 'dealbreaker'... and since your WS is not prepared to 'come clean' (at least, not for now)....you may be headed for D
I agree with lunamare. I just think you have set the bar too high. We are all different. Your sons are all grown. You have much less to lose in terms of D - especially since most of what you had went in the garage sale. I have to consider that I still have two young girls. I can't set my bar that high. It is your decision and I understand it and don't deny your right to make it. But if this is a dealbreaker, then D is your only future. In my case, I would pursue R and, if at some point in the future I could not get 100% honesty, then I would D. I just can't draw this particular line in the sand.
just checked out LA's thread 'owning all your villagers'....thought I would start the exercise suggested....then I realized that all the characteristics that I dislike about others, not to say hated, are nothing less than characteristics about MYSELF! ...now...I do intend to pursue it and see where it goes....just to be fair to LA (whom I deeply trust)...but is/has anyone here done it? ...an can you reassure that I won't end up hating myself? ...because at some point I will need to be able to look at myself in the mirror!
No I have never looked at the thread. This is not meant to be disrespectful and I am not sure how to word it correctly but I discovered several months ago that, no matter how hard I try, I will never understand LA's language. Probably just a deficiency in me that I have to accept.
R is not something that you and WW are just going to decide - hey, today we begin R. There are a few steps missing before R begins and I still don't think many WW's come completely clean until well into R.
But I don't think you have been too interested in R for the sake of your M for a very long time. You feel forced into R for the sake of your children.
In my case, I would pursue R and, if at some point in the future I could not get 100% honesty, then I would D. I just can't draw this particular line in the sand.
...sounds like a good plan for you Pio. It's more or less the same reasoning for my being in PLAN B.....and not yet asking for D.... I have nothing to lose to wait out the suggested 2 yrs mark..... and I won't need to worry about having 'rushed' into D..... in the meantime....I am not dealing with a WS..... the OW is.... and if that's all he can be...meaning, a JERK....she can have him!
...but Pio...you need to figure out how you are going to handle your Taker....who I believe is at the source of the LBusters.....
Please come and vent here.....and do try to be a 'soft spot' for G.....IF you want to consider R of your M.....
Openess and Honesty is one thing......LoveBusters are death to R.....
BTW....I will have to 'sacrifice' myself, again, for work-related reasons and will have to get my 'butt' off from my comfortable 'chez moi' in Quebec.... and travel to the San Francisco area.....which will make it the my second time this year I am going to CA....plan to take a few extra days to discover San Francisco.....never been there...
Besides having to leave my 'heart' there..... any suggestions of where to stay (affordable, it's on my budget), what to see and eat...would be very much appreciated!
Plan to explore the hilly streets I saw in some of those action films....I believe a well-known one was by...Steve McQueen? ....by the way....saw his bio....a real womanizer that Steve!
Spoke to WW again. I have really tried to set a better tone for the conversations and her voice was much better this time. We talked about her plans and it looks like she will be coming back more or less October 10th. Basically it is getting to late to try to do to many changes to the reservations. I asked her to be very clear with the DDs what her plans were and why and all would be good. She did explain to DD1 her new plan and DD1 seems okay with it. So am I.
Our conversations are mainly functional but the tone is good. Yes I will vent here but just be prepared. I can really vent.
I happen to have a techie problem... before I call out S.O.S. to my usual 'techie' friend....since he is 'in love' these days and a little busy..... I will pass it by you guys, literally! (....and, no, I am not referring to WS.....he has 'zero' knowledge of computers! ...and anyways....I would be prepared to PAY someone before asking WS for help!) ...unfortunately though, my 'techie' friend has also been a WBF but is trying to 'straighten' out and start a relationship the 'normal' way.....as opposed to being a WBF....obviously, he has my support...because'when you know better, you do better' (hopefully!)....I believe credit for that goes to one of Oprah's poet friends...Maya Angelou (sp???) ...and now has first-hand knowledge of how damaging an A can be.....he 'hates' what WS is doing to me and boys.....
My Norton anti-virus has 'quarantined' files that are infected with various worms....and it seems, it was able to repair 9 out of the 10 files....only one is unrepairable and so have this one constant dialogue box that keeps reminding me of it, and it says: -------------------------------------------------------- Norton AntiVirus (BIG X) High Risk Norton AntiVirus has detected a virus on your computer.
Object Name: C:ProgramFiles/M.../msnmsgr.exe Virus Name: Trojan Horse Action Taken: Unable to repair this file.
Even though it says 'OK'.....I know that the Trojans had BIIIIIGGG problems with the horse.......and so it can't be good!
My techies at the office would have no problem figuring out what to do....and like magic...it would be fixed.....but their services do not extent to 'home computers' of employees, as this is on my home computer...
...and seeing the name of the infected file, I think I know enough of computers that an '.exe' file is an execution file?? and I don't think I can do without it..... and I do think it's related to my DS15 chatting group on MSN...... and that is the extent of my computer knowledge...... other than to know when to cry 'HELP!'
What a day. I got home and had two sets of homework to do. DD1 was being a pain so I just sent her away without finishing her reading and began with DD2. DD2 is okay with her homework but it is slow going and we had to get ready to go to soccer. DD1 finally apologized and finished her homework at DD2's soccer practice.
This was DD2's first night ever of soccer and - what can I say? She was a gazelle. That's right. While all the other girls were chasing after the ball, my DD2 was off grazing in a corner oblivious to all around her. She is hopeless. But since I already bought the shin guards, I guess we'll keep going.
We got home and each wanted a different kind of pasta for dinner. Go figure. So I made two pastas. Next bath time then milk time (one strawberry - one chocolate), tooth brushing time, bed time and then I get to have peace and quiet. Until...."Daddy! I can't sleep because I might have nightmares!".
I am really working with DD1 trying to teach her how to be a dream warrior. It takes time.
I don't know how to use Norton. I had to get rid of it and go with McAfee. The Symantec website should have a feature where it can scan your computer for you. That may find viruses that your local version of Norton can't find. I would do the remote scan first.
If you will look at my signature line, I POSTED THE FRIGGIN URL ALREADY SO GIVE IT A REST!
Geesh...Pio...just kidding...must have hit a nerve!
PEP....thanks for your poster...but it doesn't look like Pio appreciated your effort.
Quote
The Symantec website should have a feature where it can scan your computer for you. That may find viruses that your local version of Norton can't find. I would do the remote scan first.
Thanks for the advice, Pio.... are you still mad at me, and if so, for how long?
When my children were younger, we heard John Archembault speak. So, maybe I didn't spell his name quite right. Anyway, he is a children's author. Wrote The Ghost Eye Tree and maybe Chicka Chicka Boom Boom. In his talk, attended by a number of children, he said the brain is an imagination factory. And it can imagine a number of things that fool us. Some of these fool us into being scared. He referred to them as 'foolies'
So, at my house, we never talked about monsters in the dark, we talked about foolies. And the foolies did not like pleasant places. Any place that smelled good was not a place where you would find a foolie. Therefore, air freshener became our 'foolie spray' and, if some child was not certain they could sleep well, I sprayed the room with air freshener.
Luna, the file with the .exe might be the trojan, meaning it's not one of your operative files. Have a look at your windows files in the my pc files, programs, windows files and look for it, see if it's attached to another file or alone, compare the name, etc. several trojan files go to that windows file by default. Don't worry too much about the X rate, if it's a Trojan it could be several kind of Trojans including cookies that help to mesure the frecuency with wich you use certain page or service. Let Norton destroy the trojan. Also see in add, remove programs if a program has installed itself without your consent.
About the forum rules, I was refering to posting the url of another site, in this case dedicated to photograpy.
Pio and I have never exchange a mail. I got a mail from Doug, the photographer of the site I posted the url and he thought I was someone different. I don't know if he sent a mail to Pio thinking it was him who posted his site.
I posted the url because I admire the work of this photographer very much and the pictures are breathtaking and because they are from Mexico and an area not well known.
Mission acomplished, it took me a week to finish the Tequila bottle. I'm not sure boyfriend would be proud of me. Fortunately there won't be anyother in two or three weeks.
I could use some ideas to celebrate BF birthday tomorrow been so far away. I have the Hallmark card ready and plan to call him early, what else do you think I could do being so far away?
Pio, I think it may be useful to find your EN, there must be there somewhere. I gave a try to what your need may be:
Honesty SF (Pasionate) Companionship Admiration domestic Support
Mine
Affection Companionship SF Honesty Domestic Support
Next time you buy anti-virus software, ditch Norton and McAfee and get AVG 7.1 by Grisoft. Far superior to the better known AV programs. Easy to use and effective. Cost is about $37 for a two year license. Grisoft also offers a free AV, but you get priority updates with the license version and it is cheap.
You may want to download the free version, update and run full system scan to see if it removes the Trojan. You will want to remove that Trojan asap.
You are in for a treat with SF. It is my favorite city to visit although not in the summer. Very beautiful and romantic. There's a saying that goes the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in SF. The wind blow in from the cold Pacific and creates the big chill.
We stayed at a Ramada Inn a couple blocks south of the touristy Fisherman's Wharf area. It was decent and relatively inexpensive. As for some sights to see: Chinatown, Fisherman's Wharf, Lombard Street (crookiest street in the world), Alcatraz, Golden Gate bridge, Telegraph Hill, Ghirardelli Square (make the best chocolate in the US; Ghirardelli was an Italian immigrant <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), cablecars and of course museums. Don't know how long you'll be there but if you have time, drive up to Napa valley and tour a couple of the wineries.
Below is a link to a useful touristo website. Enjoy your trip!
Shhhhhhhhh Todd, you should not mention the T word unless you have your hair spray ready.
Affection can be expressed physically, verbally or by 'indirect actions', no ?
It's interesting to try to reach a definition about what affection is for me and how it's expressed and the effect it has on me.
When I feel someone has affection for me, in general someone I care for, my interactions with that person soften and I'm much more open to that person. If BF expresses something in a as a matter of fact tone I can replay in the same tone but if he tosses in some affective words or say things on a more affective tone, I'm much more receptive to what he's saying and more careful to answer in a considerate, affective way.
Affection to me is like constant way to say that I care for BF and he cares for me in a way we don't care for other people. It's in his voice, his care and courtesy, his eyes and the physical contact. It may sound tiring but on the long run I think it comes naturally... I hope anyway.
Affection can be sometimes very sweet words and phrases but not necesarly sweet or overlysweet, lol. Just this particular lover language that express caring and complicity.
Physically in private, touches with or without sexual intentions. Neck kisses, holding each other for seconds just because. Small gestures like offering coffee to the other or tea, or a back rub.
In my case physical affectin makes SF more intime and rewarding. Like affection deposits during the day that in the night ignite the pasion. Lol.
What do you think are your main needs Todd?
On another note I was wondering where to put the need of respect, I thought that if I get all the other need filled I'm getting respect in several ways but I may be wrong.
And the foolies did not like pleasant places. Any place that smelled good was not a place where you would find a foolie.
You know that might kill two birds with one stone. It might get her to shower more frequently so her bed didn't smell bad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Pio, I apologise. I'm sorry, it was mean. I just know how careful you have to be.
Don't apologize. I said you were right. I know how dangerous it is to talk about personal issues and many of us are in especially vulnerable places. I know my EA with ToddAC is in - what? - month seven? I know it's wrong but I just can't stop.
Pio, I think it may be useful to find your EN, there must be there somewhere. I gave a try to what your need may be:
Honesty SF (Pasionate) Companionship Admiration domestic Support
Okay this might be the most useful post I have seen since Myrta. (and it is still related to that same theme). I was dwelling on this most of last night. The thought that occurred to me is that if I can't find those EN's that my marriage might be doomed. I mean the A has caused serious devastation. If I don't find an EN and have gemela start meeting that EN, I might never be able to reconnect. So yes I think this is a critical thing that now has some urgency. I am going to read HNH this weekend.
I think I will skip the raisnettes and junior mints though.
It is very true. Not only did huge names get their start in Athens, other groups have moved there after having years of non-success and overnight they are a sensation. Widespread Panic is a great example of this.
Hi larousse, Todd, Pio, Cinder, BigK, luna, 2much,
Todd for someone whose top five ens are SF I have to believe "...you're in for a treat with SF." & "remove that trojan" are intentional. LOFLOMA
Kiwi, where in the U.S. will your DD & her BF be going? Trains here are horrible. I've wanted to take a train through the Hudson Valley up to Canada for years but it's a pain in the a.s.
larousse I like your definition of affection & what it does for you. Affection during the day makes passion ignite at night. Not that I have recent first hand experience with that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...but I remember many years ago... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I haven't thought about my ENs for a while but honesty is up there somewhere.
Pio, I don't think not knowing your ENs is a bad thing. ENs can be somewhat changeable over time & changed by circumstances Now that you're a BS I would expect that to influence you ENs. I know it did for me.
Luna, the file with the .exe might be the trojan, meaning it's not one of your operative files. Have a look at your windows files in the my pc files, programs, windows files and look for it, see if it's attached to another file or alone, compare the name, etc. several trojan files go to that windows file by default. Don't worry too much about the X rate, if it's a Trojan it could be several kind of Trojans including cookies that help to mesure the frecuency with wich you use certain page or service. Let Norton destroy the trojan. Also see in add, remove programs if a program has installed itself without your consent.
Larousse???....I really appreciate your advice....but.... you lost me....at about the first line! ....uhmmm.....I think I will be inviting my 'techie' friend for supper this week....haven't seem him for a while...it will give me a c h a n c e to catch up and see what's up.... he does enjoy my homemade spaghetti sauce very much!
...and thanks to you, too, Todd...I will look into Grisoft...
Quote
You are in for a treat with SF.
Todd...may I suggest you SPELL out the name of the city next time... I almost had a heart attack! ...and Kiwi is going to think I am having SF with a Trojan.
Kiwi, I now what this means...'LMAOPMP'
Thanks for the link, Todd.
Quote
You say I can come here and vent and then you slam me for venting.
Oh..that was venting? ..OK, Pio...now I know...go ahead.....CAPITALIZE EVERYTHING...if it will help....no problemo!
Piojos.....I think you are one of those few men, that really cannot pin point to a specific EN. I think your ENs are more abstract, more diffuse. You, my husband too, were men, that were really easy to please, basically, just being a good wife,woman,mom to the kids. You were not really telling Gemela, or Stanley to me, "YOu have to do this or that, for me to be happy". Thats why you cannot think what your ENs are.
Gemela, me, others, were sooooooooooooooooooo lucky to have you as husbands,but.......we really did not appreciated <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> what we have. We were really stupid women, that wanted more, and went the wrong way to look for it.
I thank my lucky stars EVERYDAY that Stanley has stayed with me and we are doing so well. But I made really ,really good deposits all thru our marriage. I think Gemela has been too inmersed in herself to do good love deposits with you. And now that you are going thru this affair crap, you are noticing, that you can do probably better with out her.
Of course, again, lets give her the benefit of the doubt, and wait till she gets back, and see what her attitude and words are to you. If you really see a change, and its a change that you like and would like to explore with her, then maybe you can give her another opportunity. But if you are dreading so much her coming back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, gosh, I think Gemela is in a no win situation.
Right now you are doting so much into your two little girls and thats so admirable, so sweet of you. Gemela should be proud, that she chose such good man to be the father of her kids.
Thats my take in your situation, Piojitos. I hope you really make the right decision, thats best first for you, then your girls, then Gemela. Because if YOU are not happy, you will not be a good dad to your two little girls. YOu can be sure of that.
Todd...may I suggest you SPELL out the name of the city next time... I almost had a heart attack! ...and Kiwi is going to think I am having SF with a Trojan.
Why spell it out when an abbreviation can be a double-entendre? See how inexact words can be?
I also busted a gut when I read Todd's SF dialogue...
Pio, don't you think Honesty is your #1 EN now? I think it is mine...if I had total honesty I could start building from there. Maybe I am confusing you with your wonder twin Todd but he has already identified SF to the 5th power as his top ENs...
I am up to my eyelids in deadlines tonight so can't play
Hi Todd, numbers may be exact but can you cozy up to numbers? Can you engage in recreation with them? Can you meet your top 5 ENs with numbers?
No, but I also cannot cozy up to words or letters. Or talk to them. Okay, I can talk to them I admit. Recreation? I once played pitch with the number 2. Can I meet my top 5 EN's with numbers? No, but then again, I cannot with letters or words.
I am sorry but honesty is not an EN. Honesty does not make me happy other than dishonesty makes me unhappy. I won't tolerate dishonesty but I don't expect that I will be happy not encountering it.
I do intend to give gemela an opportunity. I agree she is in a difficult situation and one that I never expected. I loved her so much simply because she was my wife. When she chose to stop being my wife and then continued that behavior post Dday, it has really taken a toll. She took away my primal EN.
Gemela has the advantage in that I made her a vow that I intend to honor until she makes that totally impossible. So she has to be given the opportunity. These past two weeks have been revelational to me. While that is all good, I am now less optimistic than I ever have been. I need my optimism back.
Someone said that the one who wants the relationship the least is the one in control. Gemela has placed herself in that position in spite of all my best efforts. In my mind, I am divorced. It is going to take a huge effort to get myself back mentally. That is what I am working on. I realize I need to be so careful. I know now that I cannot DJ or LB not to protect gemela but to protect me. It would be so easy to walk away from this right now. I can't let myself do that. I have to think of trying to keep the family together for the sake of the DDs.
In one respect this is a good thing. I am no longer even thinking about trying to recover the M. I am only thinking about trying to build a new one. That does take two. Gemela will have to make some fundamental changes and so will I.
One thing I have thought about is that gemela has never gotten up to make me breakfast. Sure she has made me breakfast sometimes on the weekend but I usually have to wait until 10:00AM to get it and, by that time, I have usually already eaten something.
I also want her to take over the finances. I have tried this many times with no success but now I have to insist. Maybe she will buy fewer shoes.
Now I feel like Maverick right after he pulled himself out of the flat spin.
"talk to me Goose - talk to me".
This thread has been extremely helpful. Thanks to everyone for all your great input. Well, except for the raisnettes. That wasn't very helpful. Worst part is I gained two pounds trying to be happy with them.
My husband and I agree that when an EN is lacking, that one rises higher in the EN list until such time that it is met. Maybe Gemela did a good job of meeting most of your most important emotional needs. If the EN that is lacking is the need for SF, then that EN becomes a top need...until that EN is met to such an extent that you feel satiated...etc etc...
Maybe she seemed to admire the OM more than you during her A. Did you feel like your need for admiration was lacking during her A and since? I would think so. Or like Mryta said, you are one of those men that is easy to please.
Well after much struggle, I think I have found my number one EN. It is/was intimacy. I still remember post Dday that this is what I felt most violated about - the lost intimacy. The things that only two people shared and then I felt like I was the one outside (with good reason).
I have always always given gemela admiration. I think her need was much more fundamental than that. It wasn't that she lacked it from me - it just wasn't enough for her. I don't know. I do think she is an admiration junkie.
For me, I rate affection higher than SF. I miss affection more than I miss SF.
OTOH, it doesn't take much to keep me happy. After my dabble in philosophy years ago, I decided to alway trying to enjoy whatever I was doing than to try to do that which I enjoyed. I love to play golf. If you told me I could never play again, I wouldn't miss it. In fact I have to drive by the course at least twice a day. It is pretty to look at but I realize I can't play because of the DDs. It doesn't bother me. They need me to be with them.
But I will always regret that gemela gave away our intimacy.
Yes Pio...thats something horrible to try to overcome. The intimacy that only two people should share, not three. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Now stph20 because I don't want to read your entire thread please tell me why you want to keep WH confused. What is your goal in that? As I mentioned, it is counterintuitive.
BTW you will find that ToddAC maintains himself confused but he doesn't have any outside influences helping him.
Hi stph20, Pio thinks this is his thread but don't pay to much attention to that, he's confused.
Now, Todd is not confused, he loves to confuse us.
Here is the EN list:
Affection Sexual Fulfillment Conversation Recreational Companionship Honesty and Openness Physical Attractiveness Financial Support Domestic Support Family Commitment Admiration
The intimacy that only two people should share, not three.
Not trying to gain any sympathy here but I did not have the best of childhoods. I am sure I have related some of that in the past so won't dwell on it here. My father dies when I was 4 but I don't remember him. I had an abusive stepfather for a few years who destroyed what little remained of our family. I cannot remember much of the things he did to me. My sister remembers and for some unexplained reason felt compelled to try to remind me when I visited her last. I simply prefer denial. But the fact is that it has always been difficult for me to trust people to any great extent. There are a few I do trust - very few. They are people I would give my life for without hesitation. So the intimacy of M was sacred to me. Being able to trust in gemela and open myself completely to her was a gift.
Maybe this is why I am struggling so much now. The loss of love is behind me. The pain of betrayal is behind me. Now she will soon be coming back and I may be denied the one thing I truly value for the rest of my life.
Oh don't mind me. I am just talking out loud and being way too melodramatic.
So the question on my plate is how to re-establish intimacy with gemela. That is going to take a VERY long time. For one thing, she has proven that trust in her is misplaced.
If we do try to follow the R path, I expect it will be a long road. Much of that depends on her too. AFAIK she has been studying LNPDA (TRLT in Spanish). Maybe that has made a difference.
I am thinking complete NC, radical honesty and transparency are good first steps.
I've been here off and on reading...if you go back to my thread I tried to explain myself better. But I don't know what I'm doing.
My thought process is this: he is deadset on getting a divorce. BUT, if/when we have sex, it confuses him and he realizes that maybe he doesn't really know what he wants. So, if we keep seeing each other, he can see my Plan A, since this is really the only way he can see it in action, because when we do get together, we actually spend time together, not just sex and going home, even though we aren't going out and doing things or whatever.
I know my thread is long and you don't want to read it all, but if you did, you will find I am a VERY confused BS.
Hi stph20, Pio thinks this is his thread but don't pay to much attention to that, he's confused.
Okay we do have ground rules:
1) if believer is around we have to talk about politics unless KiwiJ is around also in which case we still have to talk about politics but in subtle ways.
2) if KiwiJ is posting, then under no circumstances are we allowed to talk about infidelity until she logs off. She considers it thread-jacking which we all agree is rude.
Quote
Todd is not confused
Really? Athens, Georgia the music capital of the world?
BTW, have the English English gotten rid of "capitol"? We Americans still have that word and it is very confusing.
That loss of intimacy that only TWO people can share is lost forever Pio. If you really want to recover your marriage, you have to put that thought behind you, and start completely anew with Gemela. From scratch again. Thats one of the big struggles BP used to have, and also Stanley. Something very,very valuable was lost forever. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
put that thought behind you, and start completely anew with Gemela.
I have come to that realization also. It makes me very sad but I have no alternative but to try. Now I need to try to build a new marriage that can never include my No. 1 EN. It seems hollow. But who knows? You and Stanley have done it. So there is hope.
I know my thread is long and you don't want to read it all, but if you did, you will find I am a VERY confused BS.
Well sometimes a fresh start is a good thing. What are you confused about?
I am confused about everything. This is relatively new to me, I just found out about his A a month ago and in that time, he's made his mind up that he wants a divorce. We tried living in our house together, that didn't work and now he's living at his mom's house until he can file for divorce in 3 months.
If you really,really try to start anew , your marriage will not be hollow...It will be "different" but not hollow, it will have other hues of colors <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. But Pio, not all the marriages can make it thru this. And you seem so dischanted with Gemela, like you are fed up or something! Are you fed up with Gemela's ways? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Good info. As BK said - why does he want a D? I agree with BK. I would say the A is in full glory. You are certain that the PA is over. What about the EA?
It is difficult to Plan A with WH at mom's house. Always remember that WH's seldom say what they mean. Don't listen to the words too much. WH's lie. That is about all they do well.
And you seem so dischanted with Gemela, like you are fed up or something!
I am emotionally detached. That is all I know. Now I am trying to sort out why I would want to go back. Of course it is for the DDs. Of course I will not live in a sham marriage for the DDs. I have to give it time to see what happens.
I know, but it's really hard not to listen to him when he talks divorce. We even have conversations about it, like we're talking about the weather or something! It's not a big deal to him.
I know there's not much of a PA going on(besides kissing), but I don't know about EA. He hasn't mentioned her to me since I exposed to OW's BF, so I don't know what's going on. They still see each other at work, but that's all I know.
Trust me, I know it's hard to Plan A while he's not here, but I'm doing the best I can and showing him the best "me" I can be when we are together.
BTW, we should all congratulate nams for posting 4 times today. I think the ADD meds are really starting to take effect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
WW called earlier to apologize. Out of the blue. She didn't say she was apologizing for her affair, just that she apologized. I left it alone. She has never apologized before. I thanked her. She said she wanted to work things out. I told her we had much to discuss and that honestly is critical to me. She said she understood and would be honest. I have my doubts but we'll see.
I had mentioned way back before I moved out that she and I had discussed moving to a lake/golf community approx. 90 minutes from here. She brought that up and said she wanted to move there. I told her we'll see. My problem is I am not sure how I feel about her anymore. Maybe it is a coping mechanism on my part but again, the trust and honesty issue is huge and I am not sure how to ever trust her again. Nonetheless, I tried the keep the conversation positive or neutral.
Todd, I'm glad you liked the photographs. I love them.
When we were in this place called Las Encantadas, one day we had only one boat, the boat left him in the only island with snakes, the poison ones, and took us to other island, we were carring the antidote shots. Six hours later we came back to pick him up. He was cheerful as always and had taken great pics of owls. He has mastered the art of knowing the birds behavior and waiting for them. Todd that Grisoft AVG and anti spy really works. I was going comando, the lap top I mean, lol, and that spyware really cleaned all the intrudes and left my modem conection better than ever.
I think Nam posts have more to do with the influence of the X-Files, she is used to the unexpected and surreal now.
Hola Luna, I bet the friend will take care of your PC, you can share recipes anytime. Even Todd wants to learn some recipes and I think Pio's DD's would thank you some gourment improvement to their father cooking abilities.
Me thinks Pio love G and G loves Pio, they have just having a weir dance since some months ago.
Todd congratulations on your behavior during the phone talk with your WW.
Harley says that a couple has to fall in love and stay in love to recover and improve a marriage after an affair.
In this weekend repetition of the weeks radio program he speaks about the need of the BS of some kind of revenge or to forgive and he says that the BS post affair has to get a compensation. That compensation is conteined in the 4 stepts to recover from and affair. 1 To remove all the condition that lead to an affair. BS behavior if there was one but specially the circumstances that permited the affair: independent behavior, friends, work... 2 The Policy of Radical Honesty.
The other two I can't find them, I know the Tejan celebrity with the funny hairdo has a link to them.
Honesty in a WW is a process, they learn that is safe to say the true and that it's the only way they can recover the love of the BS but in most cases it takes time.
I thought you meant the tequila for a moment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Todd that Grisoft AVG and anti spy really works. I was going comando, the lap top I mean, lol, and that spyware really cleaned all the intrudes and left my modem conection better than ever.
I am happy that it worked for you. The person who told me about AVG is an IS type of person. She said that she has run Norton and McAfee and found no viruses, then ran AVG and found viruses. Grisoft is based in the Czech Republic or whatever they are calling themselves this month.
Do you run anti-spyware? If so, which one? Highly recommend Ad-Aware. You will need to buy the license because it offers spyware blocking.
BTW, do not run more than one AV program. It is counterproductive. When I bought my HP notebook last month, it came with Norton Internet Security already loaded on it. The first thing I did was to delete it and install AVG.
1. Admiration (I'm an admiration junkie like G) 2. Sexual Fulfillment (self explanatory) 3. Conversation (Go nuts if I can't have lots of talking - not just me talking either surprisingly enough) 3. Physical Attractiveness (not looks but grooming and nice clothes) 4. Financial Support (legacy from my background and I didn't know it was one until Rob was laid off from his job - Rob buying the bookshop filled a huge need in me) 5. Recreational Companionship (doing things together is essential for me)
BTW don't make the mistake of thinking that honesty and openness only applies to A related things. It can be hatching plans and schemes that are kept from your spouse. It can be omitting to tell all the important things that happen during the day. It can be not mentioning that you're planning an outing or holiday (vacation) that your spouse doesn't know about it. It can be holding things back about your past.
You probably have many malware programs on your computer. Download a freeware version of Ad-Aware, update and run it and let us know how many malwares it found.
Honesty and openness are important to me because before the A, we were totally honest about every aspect of our lives. I trusted that and he betrayed it, which is why the A hurts so much. He was my absolute best friend whom I told everything to and continued to do while he was cheating on me! UGH!!
Anyway, it was always an important part of our R before and I want that back.
This thread is really strange but don't worry about your posts being "lost". They all get read and responded to. We just have a lot on the table. Think of it like Douglas Adams' Italian Bistro. There is a method to the madness.
That's fine. Y'all can jump over to my thread too, if you want.
I have an appt. with an atty. on Wed. the 27th. I'm not sure if I'm going to file or not.
I still don't know if I want a divorce. I don't think I do. WH does, but he can't file against me until we've been separated either 3 or 6 months. Since he's the adulterer, I don't need a separation from him first. I'm glad that's working in my favor or I would probably be divorced right about now!
stph20, this thead is really strange mainly because Pio started it.
stph20, I'm an FWW and a recovered one which is why Pio made the smarta** crack about me not discussing infidelity. My H and I are passed discussing it. It can be done - recovery I mean. I'm proof positive.
Does anyone want to read the cool e-mail I got from my DD this morning?
I love her e-mails and not just cos I'm her mum. I thought everyone would LOVE it because it's about France. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"Well, after leaving the champagne houses of Epernay we drove to Versailles where we had one full day to explore the gardens of the palace which are so vast you can get lost in them. We also managed to meet up with the friends we had made in Tuscany and they cooked us a full French meal, complete with cheeses and red wine <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Dropped off Perry the Peugeot in the middle of the financial district of Paris and began our car free leg of the trip (which meant a lot of throwing out from the car – you can acquire a lot of crap in 4 months!!) 16,000kms and no accidents – even in Paris! Our taxi driver decided it would be a good idea for us to go around the Arc de Triomphe … I just shut my eyes and held my breath. Paris was really pretty and we spent our first full day walking around for 5 hours and seeing all the sights from Bastille to the Arc de Triomphe, Effiel Tower, Notre Dame, Louvre…….
Our friends, C**** "I have to watch the rugby" C***** and J***** came over from London for a couple of days to have a few bevvies and enjoy the sights. Had a fantastic night out with them and stumbled onto a little fairground in the middle of Bastille where we challenged each other to fooseball….A little worse for the wear the next day and A*** had the flu but we still managed to fit in a trip up the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre.
Sampled some escargot which pretty much just tasted like garlic, but fun to try. Also met up with a cousin from NZ and her French husband who took us up to the Sacre Coeur at night which was really beautiful and fully lit up. They have 2 children who go to a French school and speak in bursts of French and English – so cute!
Thought it might be a good idea to try and get my hair cut in Paris – hmmmm not that easy when the hairdresser speaks no English and uses clippers to cut your hair……
Left our little apartment and met up with A****'s parents at the airport before the next leg of the trip….. Croatia. It was really lovely to see A*****'s parents after such a long time!! First stop was Split where we managed to get in some sightseeing and taste some of the local cuisine (lovely meat and potatoes and a 3.5kg fish!) and wine – which is TERRIBLE and needs ice cubes to be drinkable. From here we picked up our catamaran for a week sailing around some of the islands.
Bliss! No driving, swimming off the boat every morning and having run ins with our skipper Nick who seemed to think that I was his beer slave and that A**** was the second mate. He always seemed to have "connections" wherever we moored and chose the nicest restaurants to eat at!! He was very funny though and by the end of the week it was sad to see "skipper Nick" go!! We even had a go at trying to catch calamari late one night and ended up catching an octopus that squirted water at us and stuck to the hull and ripped off Nicks lure! YUCK
After a week of pure relaxation (and happy hour cocktails every night) on the boat we docked at Dubrovnik which has a very scenic walled city. Had some pretty crappy weather, but managed one day where we could walk the city walls and take in the beautiful vista! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> From here we caught the overnight ferry to Bari on the Adriatic coast of Italy. As it was overnight we splashed out on a tiny cabin with bunk beds…he he…and climbed over the Lonely Planet back packers who had spread their sleeping bags on the floor. If a ferry wasn't bad enough we then had a 7.5 hour train to catch to Rome..ahh the joys of travelling.
Tired and scratchy we arrived at our hotel just behind the Coliseum! Only thing to do in that situation is grab gelati – ah chocolate chilli that burns the back of your throat!!!
Showed A***** the sights and sounds of Rome in all its glory…….with the tiny old nana beggars who shuffle in front of you then stand up behind the coliseum and have a smoke… to the gladiators who grab their crotches and say "your boyfriend/husband he would like a photo,yes??"...no!.......and of course the pedestrian crossings with no little green man so you have to hold your breath and hope that scooters, cars, buses don't hit you………..Rome?!………
Louise "I like to feed homeless people’s dogs" H**** came to meet us for 2 nights which was REALLY fun. Her first introduction was the taxi ride from the airport which is worth the 50 euros as it’s like a theme park ride, minus the seat belts! A***** enjoyed showing off his new found knowledge and we took her inside the coliseum (which was free as it was a Jewish holiday – go figure), St Peters (rosary beads!), Ara Pacis, Roman Forum, Spanish Steps, Via Del Corso, threw our coins in the Trevi Fountain (and watched a homeless man swimming in the fountain and collecting up everyone’s wishes) and that's all before 1pm!
We farewelled Louise this morning and hopped on a plane to Greece where we are now in Athens and enjoying a different country again! Great shops with plenty of shoes and jewellery everywhere and old Greek men playing with their worry beads <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Off for a look around the Acropolis tomorrow and more Greek salad…."
Big is is a positive simplifier. He is well-versed in MB principles and has a knack for taking a complex situation and distilling it into a few sentences that really hit home.
The antispyware found 103 between trojans and tracking cookies.
I didn't like that it found Trojans from IRC, I have never gone or used IRC, could the antispyware be '`planting' things to make me think I ave more than I have?
Just 2 virus with the AV: the advantages of been antisocial, lol.
If you were to read my thread, it will tell you I am very confused about these turn of events in my life.
I've exposed, I'm in Plan A, I've read books, I'm ready to work on our marriage, but WH isn't, he actually went through a period of being angry at ME!!! I did nothing and he's angry at me for whatever reason. Sometimes he still is (like this morning when he didn't trust himself to be alone with me). I understand it's the wayward ways, but it's still stupid and makes no sense at all.
I have never gone or used IRC, could the antispyware be '`planting' things to make me think I ave more than I have?
Err... no. IRC may have been a third party to a site you visited, it could have been devlivered in a email or directly attacked your computer. Okay, do you have a firewall? If not, and I suspect not for some reason. download the freeware version of ZoneAlarm.
BigK has this great lecture on blind trust and what a bad concept it is. I think he is just being nice. Stay here a few days and you'll get his full treatment. He means well though. I'll give him that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Basically if we trust blindly, we can expect to get blind-sided. It is a huge mistake that many BS's have made to get them where they are. You should never trust anyone completely under any circumstances.
What do you think is the number 1 EN for your H that OW filled and you didn't?
stph20, don't worry, they really aime la France avec pasion.
larousse,
Au contraire. It is not an illusion; we really hate France. BTW, your screename sure sounds "Frenchy". What does it mean? Surely, you are not a French sympathizer, or someone from Frahnsay hiding out in Mehico?
Seriously, BigK, I don't know. Like I said I'm an admiration junkie. Maybe it was that. OM was always saying that he was surprised I wasn't a lawyer like my father and that I should finish my degree.
Yes, Todd, OM was a drinker like me. Rob isn't. I said to my sister once that the OM was flawed like me and that Rob was perfect. He just doesn't make mistakes (for one thing he would never have an A) although he said to me after d-day that he's just human and makes mistakes just like everyone else.
The OM also made me feel very smart and very clever. But Rob does that. Rob, however, is much smarter and cleverer than me. OM was smart in a way that doesn't impress me - business smart and math smart. (Sorry math guys)
'Nous avon tout la vie pour nous amusse nous avon tout la morte pour nous repose'
Chanson du Mr George Mustaky, Greeke imported to France by Edith Piaf.
:::::::::
The Policy of Radical Honesty makes both members of a couple accountable in front of the other of their time and actions. I think MB approach to the topic of lack of honesty is that most of us could be dishonest if left to our own devices.
Todd, Larousse is the name of a French Publishing Co. of Dicctionaries and Enciclopedies. The name Larousse was the family name of the man who started the business of publishing books, specially books to teach French to inocent, pure and unfrenched foreingers.
BigK, I do have an insatiable need for admiration.
Rob meets that need. Sheesh, he meets it constantly. Maybe he doesn't say it without prompting. Read "am I smart, really, really, am I smart, go on tell me, am I smart, seriously, am I smart?"
I should have got the freaking degree, then I wouldn't feel like this.
I was referring to WH's EN's. I haven't read the thread either. I am curious why stph20 thinks WH stepped outside the M. I think I remember that WH is 27 but don't quote me. Do you think stph is 20? I guess I need to read the thread.
But a 27 yr old man who thinks his wife is really hot and can't get enough SF with her? What is wrong with this picture?
I hope you have finally read SAA. You said you had no clue what WH's EN's were/are. How is it a much older woman with a child can meet those? You need to do your best job of identifying your WH's EN's to better plan your Plan A.
I see lemonman set you straight on STD's and MelodyLane lectured you not to file for D. I agree. If he wants it, make HIM work for it.
I think his anger could be his confusion or simply him trying to make you hate him to appease his guilty conscience. He wants to be the victim. That is what all WS's want.
One thing you are confused on though. You CANNOT MAKE your WH fall in love with you. Doesn't matter if it is 3 weeks or 300 years. That is his choice to make. You can't force him to do anything. Your Plan A should be about correcting those negative behaviors in you. So you don't know his EN's. You do have some ideas of what you did wrong. Try your best to work on those.
As long as WH is still in contact with OW, the A will not stop. The only way to kill the A is with absolute NC. What do you think will happen in November when she leaves? Since they apparently had SF on the job, I would go as far as to report it and get your husband fired. I know you are short on money but what is more important? His job or your marriage?
I think you have been getting some really solid advice. I think you should keep posting just to air your thoughts. You will find that many here understand exactly what you are feeling and that will help you not feel so alone.
The STD possibility would really scare me though. There are many of them out there and many have no cure and some can cause cancer. You are very young (not 20 like I had guessed). You need to protect yourself.
What I want to know about is fear. Fear seems to drive most of our actions very early on. You got some great support to help you past some of that. I am a little surprised you are not totally furious with WH. You seem to have completely bypassed anger and that is unusual. Maybe you are still into bargaining/denial. Do you know the 5 stages of grief?
Do you understand Plan A? What is your Plan A?
Oh and do NOT file for divorce unless that is what YOU want.
Well I finally caved. I hired a gardener to trim the rest of the palm tree. For 50 riyals, it is money well spent.
BTW stph20, you need to understand that most of us are not in your time zone. In ToddAC's case it doesn't really matter because he only sleeps 42 minutes a day (on a good day).
I was just thinking. Why is it that KiwiJ is the only one who has guidelines on MY thread? Hardly seems fair. OTOH, it reminds me a bit of my marriage. Could it be me that is the problem?
Before I read through the whole thread I wanted to say something about Pio's intimacy issue.
This was exactly the problem in my marriage. Due to FOO issues I was largely unaware ex had huge emotional intimacy issues. I didn't recognize that or understand what to do for him. It was the central issue from which all others spun around.
For ex the only way in which he could be intimate was physically. I needed conversation, affection, companionship in order to want physical intimacy with him. Caused HUGE problems neither one of us understood. Coming here & seeing an IC was what helped me understand the dynamics at work in out problems. ex refused to acknowledge he had intimacy problems but whereever you go there you are so I expect this problem will haunt him.
Briefly (too late) ex's father is an alcoholic, mostly recovering but sometimes on & off. Mother was an enabler & a closet alcoholic. Both parents were cold & emotionally distant. ex did not think this had any affect on his home life or his development.
Pio , you're WAY ahead of the game to recognize these things about yourself.
I posted before asking the question how would G have to change in order for you to have the partner you want & if she was capable of that kind of change. I know in my case ex was unable to see he needed to make changes to have a better marriage. I wonder if G is in a similar frame of mind.
Before y'all jump on my for DJ, or placing too much blame on ex & his inability to emotionally attach read this: In the 21 years we were married ex did not call me by name or use an endearment when talking to me. If he needed to talk to me he would come to me. It took me years to provide my name when he introduced me to someone instead of just referring to me as his W.
In MCing I asked why he couldn't/wouldn/t call me by name. He said he didn't want to call me by his old GF's name; the one he had two years before we married.
I am not sure we are talking about the same thing when we say intimacy. I am not talking SF. I am talking about that special bond that only two people share. I am talking about those secrets that nobody else on earth knows. I am talking about that special trust that you place in another person because you know they will care for you no matter what. I am talking about all those things that I knew about gemela that nobody else would ever know and her about me. That is the intimacy I have lost and, as Myrta said, it is gone forever.
Yes I do have problems opening up to the general public but I don't believe I ever had that problem with gemela. I also have a very few close friends that I am completely open with.
I think Myrta is right. What made me happy was simply being married to gemela. It would be far easier if I had as my top EN's things that she could easily fill. SF? Shag day and night. Problem solved. Conversation? Chat all night long. I think I have a fundamentally serious problem now. What it is I need, I can never ever have. I have the wrong EN's. So, to have a chance at a successful marriage, I am going to have to make significant changes in what I want a marriage to be.
I have no clue whether gemela is capable of change or if she even feels the need. Those are her issues. As bigger is so fond of saying, we may be walking on parallel paths but we are not walking on the same path. My fear is that I won't be able to sacrifice this lost EN for something that gemela CAN fulfill. I am truly worried about that.
She gave away the only thing I ever really cared about and we can never have it back. That is a problem.
Long story short - what I am talking about is exactly like the dialogue that Robin Williams won his Academt Award for in Good Will Hunting when talking about his wife.
We are talking about the exact same kind of intimacy Pio. I was the kind I was capable of which is one thing I think attracted ex to me. A problem was he felt I could give him tahat same ability simply by my having the capability. He desperatey wanted to have that type of intimacy but could not/would not be open enough to share himself that way with me.
Pio===You have to be realistic too in respect to your marriage and Gemela. I think your expectations when you got married to Gemela where set way too high. Because of you being abused when young ,being an orphan,etc, you put Gemela in this pedestal that she was above anything negative or bad towards you. You thought that she was flawless, when she was just human.
Yes, you did lose what you value most, but you could still build a good solid marriage, with real expectations from a human being. YOu have faults , and so does she., She, hopefully, has learned from hers, and when she comes back she can show you that she really means this.
You thought that when you got married to her, everything was going to be perfect forever and ever. We all think that, but things affect us thru life . Gemela, obviously has some serious issues too from childhood, I have them too. And even if you thought she was different....flawless....well, she was not. She has issues, she is young, she was confused. Maybe she has changed for the better, or maybe she is still the same.But.....you have to see her before you and make that assesment . You know her better, probably, than she knows herself, or even her parents.
Thank you for your advice Pio and bigkahuna. I'll try to address most of what you've told me.
I didn't realize that I was being verbally abusive to WH, but I guess I was. The truth is, neither one of us has respected each other the way we should have. That's part of my plan A. I did read SAA, but I need to read it again so I can be sure I fully understand.
The only thing WH has really told me about why he had the A is that OW has a "bubbly personality". I guess I lost that and that makes him happy. MIL met her and says she's very immature for her age.
I know that WH is tired of all the fighting and bickering. As soon as he told me that he wanted a D, that all stopped. He told me he wanted a D before I discovered the A. I realize now that my arguing with him was part of the depression. I'm back on AD's and it's really helping to keep the edge off all the stress. Neither one of knew how to handle stress though. I would confront him about a problem, he would go off the deep end and we would start arguing. So then I had to deal with us yelling at each other, and the problem at hand. I just didn't know how to do it effectively. And he doesn't trust that I've learned. He thinks everything will be fine for a couple of months and it'll all go back to the way things were. I don't know if plan A will get him to trust in me or not. And I have to learn to trust him again too, if he wants to come home.
He knows about my appointment with my lawyer. He also knows that I don't know if I'm going to file for D or not.
I do know the 5 stages of grief and I don't know why I'm not mad either. No one does. I think the hurt I feel is more overpowering than the anger could be. I do have moments when I think "I cannot believe he did this to me. What gave him the right to cheat, not talk to me about what was going on in his head and think this is all alright?!?" And that kind of pi**es me off, but I'm not "take a baseball bat to his truck" mad like I thought I would be.
He was my absolute best friend and I thought I was his. He took that away from me and that makes me really sad. I also think the reason for the A is more important to me than the actual A. That's what I want to work on and fix.
Some days are better than others in dealing with this. Sometimes I just deal with it and other days, I'm totally confused and just want him to come home, get his head out of his fog and talk to me. You may have read that I'm an impatient person... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I know it seems like I did a lot LBing WH in my last post, but I don't say these things to him. I let it all out here so I don't have to LB him. I don't want to do that (it just makes OW look better, thank you MelodyLane!).
But I'm also getting resentful that he's the one who f***** up and I'm the one working my a** off to save my M! How is that fair! He should be the one begging my forgiveness and wanting to come home and work on our M, not me begging him to work on it (I used to beg, I don't anymore, I accept whatever it is he says).
Is this a normal feeling? Does anyone else feel this way?
Well...just got caught up....must admit....this was a particularly busy night\day on this thread....while I was getting ma 'beauty' sleep.
...so...don't blame me if my post is toooooo long!
Quote
air freshener became our 'foolie spray' and, if some child was not certain they could sleep well, I sprayed the room with air freshener.
Cinderella...would you know if your foolie spray would work on viruses, worms, trojans, and horses by any chance?
Quote
Hmm. I never realised SF was a geographic location. LMAO
...unless, Todd....your intention was to 'confuse' BigK...but I think he's too smart for that...he's going to catch on...sooner or LATER! LOL. (BigK....don't know much about you.....other than that you live in Australia...but I do find your posts 'insightful', to say the least, and hope that my above comments will not be taken as 'disrespectful' because I do respect you very very much!)
Todd, how do you cuddle up to number?
OH....I see Nams beat me to it! ...that's what happens when one gets behind about 10 pages....
Hi Nams,
Quote
luna, are you upset with me for being a bit..pissy... the other day about my dating situation?
NOOOOT at all....been too busy with my Trojan!
...and I think 'pissy' better applies to Kiwi.....in consecutive posts a few pages back...she was 'LMAOPMP' ...and do not hesitate to ask Kiwi what it means if you don't know... LOL.
Quote
I know now that I cannot DJ or LB not to protect gemela but to protect me. It would be so easy to walk away from this right now. I can't let myself do that. I have to think of trying to keep the family together for the sake of the DDs.
Pio...that's why I think somewhere...Harley says that...bottom line....it will be up to the BS whether or not the M will have a go at R.... you have already 'earned' your right for 'flight' because G has given you all the reasons to..... but you can also choose to try to climb your personal mount Everest.... and whatever you choose....we will be right behind you.....
Quote
If we do try to follow the R path, I expect it will be a long road. Much of that depends on her too....
I am thinking complete NC, radical honesty and transparency are good first steps.
Right on...MA MAN!
Quote
when you go to SF, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.
Will do, Pio....and will go braless and singing this tune (but I will not get 'high'...was never into that!):
When the moon is in the Seventh House and Jupiter aligns with Mars Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars
This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius The age of Aquarius Aquarius! Aquarius!
Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derisions Golden living dreams of visions Mystic crystal revelation And the mind's true liberation Aquarius! Aquarius!
When the moon is in the Seventh House and Jupiter aligns with Mars Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars
This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius The age of Aquarius Aquarius! Aquarius!
As our hearts go beating through the night We dance unto the dawn of day To be the bearers of the water Our light will lead the way
We are the spirit of the age of Aquarius The age of Aquarius Aquarius! Aquarius!
Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding Angelic illumination Rising fiery constellation Travelling our starry courses Guided by the cosmic forces Oh, care for us; Aquarius
Quote
I still remember post Dday that this is what I felt most violated about - the lost intimacy. The things that only two people shared and then I felt like I was the one outside (with good reason).
Speaking my language, Pio....which is why....NC with OP is the 'dealbreaker' for me.....besides the fact that M is not 'recoverable' without it.....
Quote
It is pretty to look at but I realize I can't play because of the DDs.
Now, Pio...this I don't understand....why couldn't you play once in a while? Remember....you need to look after your DDs...but also their dad....so that he can take of his DDs!
....don't think exfoliating your feet does the trick, either.
Todd,
Quote
WW called earlier to apologize. Out of the blue. She didn't say she was apologizing for her affair, just that she apologized. I left it alone. She has never apologized before. I thanked her. She said she wanted to work things out. I told her we had much to discuss and that honestly is critical to me. She said she understood and would be honest. I have my doubts but we'll see.
This sounds like a good sign to me...glad to see you didn't start arguing with her...stick to your boundaries....she needs to consider them non-negotiable....up to her whether or not she chooses to respect them, or not.... and consequently, whether or not, you will consider R.....
Quote
My problem is I am not sure how I feel about her anymore. Maybe it is a coping mechanism on my part but again, the trust and honesty issue is huge and I am not sure how to ever trust her again.
Like I was telling Pio....bottom line...it may be up to the BS whether or even attempt will be made for R!
Quote
Feelings are feelings. They mean nothing in the greater scheme. Don't let this be a hurdle.
...that's why decisions are best to not be based solely on EMOTIONS! They are like the wind....
Quote
What are your top five EN's? Question du jour.
Given that I am in PLAN B.....this is not a top priority in my list of 'things to do'....but I guess, eventually, I will have to sit down and decide...for the time being.....I will say all ten of them..... and the no. 1, given that I am BS, is 'exclusivity' in a relationship.....and to do whatever it takes to show it.....
stph,
Quote
Do I need to read the past 248 pages? Because I really don't want to...
...nobody will force you to, either....being part of this thread, believe it or not, is on a voluntary basis!
Quote
I love her e-mails and not just cos I'm her mum.
Kiwi...does your DD know you are letting 'others' read her email? ...would she mind if she knew? I find this a bit 'touchy'.
Quote
Careful, this is a thread in which we bash France. Everyone except Luna and that's because she used to live there, although she now denies it.
Todd...need to straighten this out..... I live in Quebec....which like France, is francophone land, but it is not FRANCE....never lived there (although I did visit it....I liked it!)
...and what exactly do you hold against France the most? ....since it was before your DS's French GF...that wouldn't be it....although right off the bat, it made you 'hostile' material for her...which she obviously did not overcome. (....and I think I may regret asking the question!)
Quote
stph20, don't worry, they really aime la France avec pasion.
stph20....Larousse is out to confuse you! ...she's just trying out her French on you. LOL.
Quote
BigK has this great lecture on blind trust and what a bad concept it is. I think he is just being nice. Stay here a few days and you'll get his full treatment. He means well though. I'll give him that.
Basically if we trust blindly, we can expect to get blind-sided. It is a huge mistake that many BS's have made to get them where they are. You should never trust anyone completely under any circumstances.
BigK....no need to get your lecture notes out....Pio seems to have done a good job of summarizing it!
....big lesson to learn for us BS!....OOOOOUUUUUCHHHHHH that hurts!
Todd,
Quote
BTW, your screename sure sounds "Frenchy".
it should....it's the name of French dictionary that was on her shelf at the time she needed to think of a poster name.... if my memory serves me right?
Quote
I should have got the freaking degree, then I wouldn't feel like this.
Kiwi...I suppose you know that it's never too late...if it will make you 'feel' smarter!
Alright....I think I will stop here....we both need a break....and actually....I am going for lunch!
It can take a while for the anger to hit. Maybe months. I think right now you are in such panic mode that you don't have time to be angry. You also have some mistaken ideas about what Plan A is for in that it cannot make WH fall in love with you. In fact, your Plan A can do nothing as long as OW is in the picture.
Begging at first is natural. It is part of the bargaining stage of grief. The stages don't always come in the same order. Sometimes stages overlap.
Unfortunately Plan A is all your responsibility. It is not easy and not all can do it. If you are successful in recovering your M, it will have been worth it.
Hahahaha Todd. I'm drinking tequila. Lol. Actually I'm drinking a charro negro, like a black cowboy, lol. It's coke with tequila.
By the way. Sorry Drucilla. Don Julio is a brand that has barely 20 years of existance. The tequila might be from 1942 and was bought by the brand recently.
Good morning Larouse,
It's not from the year 1942, it's a comemoritive edition, the distiller opened his first shop in 1942, so he later released this as a special anniversary edition, or something. Still, VERY yummy... Worth a drink if you get the chance <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - Dru
[color:"blue"] Don Julio 1942
I established my first tequila distillery in 1942 and to commemorate that very special year, I have created Don Julio 1942 a unique and limited edition/ I personally selected the stock for this new release. Its golden line and perfect clarity I find appealing and a testament to its purity. The aroma is sweet and ripe with layers of agave and notes of ripe apple and oak. The taste is smooth, rich and clean with oak and vanilla finish. Don Julio 1942 will appeal to both connoisseurs and collectors of fine tequila. I hope you enjoy it.[/color]
I know plan A can't make him fall in love with me (I know that now), but you are right, I am in panic mode a lot of the time.
But I've also come to realize that as much as I love my H, I'll be OK if he decides to divorce me. I'm kind of glad he's not living with me at the moment because it's made me realize who I am as stph20 the person, NOT stph20 the wife. And I've also come to realize I have a support group around me that I could have never imagined. And that makes me so grateful for everyone around me (including you guys).
It's the fog thing that keeps confusing me and it's sooo hard not to listen to what WH is saying, especially when he's angry or has his guard up when he's talking to me.
I don't know...divorce. Not knowing what WH is up to on a daily basis. Not having him in my life as my H anymore. The fact that he may not love me anymore. If WH does D me, being alone for the rest of my life. Never finding someone who loves me as much as he did.
I don't know...divorce. Not knowing what WH is up to on a daily basis. Not having him in my life as my H anymore. The fact that he may not love me anymore. If WH does D me, being alone for the rest of my life. Never finding someone who loves me as much as he did.
And you are 26 years old? 27?
You married young and have never really had an adult life without your H. Fear of being alone is probably a valid fear in that context. You lose part of yourself to the M. When you separate/divorce, it takes a long time to get that part of you back and discover who YOU are again. Because since you were a teenager, you haven't had to be just YOU.
Maybe that is part of what you are afraid of. You don't really know who you are.
I had wondered about BS fog on my thread, but no one ever answered me.
I just want my H back.
It may not have been my fault, he made the choice, but it was our marriage and the way I treated him that led him to it.
He just had me on this pedestal when we met. He used to tell me over and over that I was perfect. I have disappointed him in many ways over the years and I don't think he knows how to deal with that either. And neither do I.
I am 26. We met and started dating when I was 19 and got married when I was 22.
You're right, we've spent our entire adult lives together. It's hard to let go of that and all of our history, but it's not so bad living by myself and getting the chance to discover who I am and get to know the people around me whom I've "neglected" in favor of being with my H.
Him being gone is a lot easier than I expected it to be and that in itself scares me. I do miss him sometimes, but I don't need him here; I want him here.
but it was our marriage and the way I treated him that led him to it.
If there are problems in a marriage, there are options: counseling to fix the problems, living with the problems or divorce to get away from the problems. Affairs are not an option.
I know that, but I didn't know the problems were as severe as they were until he told me about the affair. I'm not excusing him for whatsoever! But I can almost understand why he did it. I don't know. I know what I mean but I can't get it to come out right.
Well you and your WH have something in common. You both blame you for the A. The reality is that he was weak and betrayed a vow he made to you. I have gone back and reread that vow many times. It does not come with many caveats.
Well, don't be mean! I don't blame myself for the affair. But I was part of the problems in our M that led him astray. I know he's weak and he should have handled it differently, and I wish to God he would have, but he did it and now we both have to live with it.
I just cannot, for the life of me, figure out why he did this and he's the one who left me. I hate the fog!
You may never know why he did it. Look at chaos theory. It might have been something as simple as a butterfly flapping its wings in China.
I am not trying to be mean. I am trying to tell you that you need to let go of this guilt. You are not the one who has betrayed your M. Did you make mistakes? Most all of us did. You have every right to be mad as he!! at your husband. I hope you can get angry some day. You need it. Then it will pass.
Well I said most of us. Don't try to tell ToddAC he made any mistakes or he'll start quoting Frank Pittman again.
I know you're not trying to be mean. And I don't feel guilt for his A. I feel regrets for not treating our M as the gift it was, but I know his decisions and his way of handling things are all on him.
Why do I need to get angry? I don't see how that will serve any purpose in saving my M.
What guidelines? I don't see no stinkin' guidelines.
Me neither!....er....what exactly are 'guidelines'?
Quote
Is it safe to assume that you have a new bottle of tequila this week?
Personally, Larousse...I prefer a GRAND MARNIER....picked up a very big bottle at the duty free when I went to NYC with the boys...and am thoroughly enjoying 'seeping' it....no dent in it....I drive better than that!
Hi Myrta,
....am I mistaken or you are a FWW?....either way...I find you very 'insightful' and a great help to camarade Pio...
stph,
Quote
But I'm also getting resentful that he's the one who f***** up and I'm the one working my a** off to save my M! How is that fair! He should be the one begging my forgiveness and wanting to come home and work on our M, not me begging him to work on it (I used to beg, I don't anymore, I accept whatever it is he says).
Is this a normal feeling? Does anyone else feel this way?
Yes....it is....and yes, it is not fair.....but fairness has little to do with reality! ...and you will be less resentful if you start with the premise that: LIFE IS NOT FAIR
.....and where do you go from there?
Quote
It's the fog thing that keeps confusing me and it's sooo hard not to listen to what WH is saying, especially when he's angry or has his guard up when he's talking to me.
...that is a well known WS technique to keep BS confused.....BS's response?.....in one ear out the other.... until NC with OW happens!
Quote
but it's not so bad living by myself and getting the chance to discover who I am and get to know the people around me whom I've "neglected" in favor of being with my H.
Him being gone is a lot easier than I expected it to be and that in itself scares me. I do miss him sometimes, but I don't need him here; I want him here.
stph...sounds you are coming along just fine...keep up the good work! ...you want your H.....keep reminding yourself that what you have on your hands right now....is a WS. It's confusing because they look alike!
Quote
But I can almost understand why he did it.
stph...that is EXACTLY what your WS wants you to think.....so he can blame you for all the trouble he has gotten both of you into by choosing to have an A!
Please don't buy into his 'story'....and become an 'enabler'.
I am not suggesting you get angry at WH. On the contrary. Don't get angry at him. You need to get angry, close yourself in a room and break something. You need to anger to help you heal.
I"m 10 minutes from SF (the city, 24-hrs away from the other).... I've had visitors no toilet paper can discourage <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. Two weeks I had one group stay! Should have brought back some tp from Germany. It's horrendous! I had other American women offering to buy my little kleen-ex packs! - Dru
....am I mistaken or you are a FWW?....either way...I find you very 'insightful' and a great help to camarade Pio.
Yes Myrta is FWW. I think she is PR but won't swear to it.
Hey, I'll go toe to toe with any of them but Myrta scares the heck out of me. I'll R with gemela just so Myrta won't get mad. Did you see The Hulk? Well, you get the idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Alright, Pio, if it's a trick question I am falling for it....but, what is PR?
....and anyway, weren't you off to sleep?....or are getting to be like...Todd....Superman who needs no sleep! (...just a bit confused by wearing underwear OVER his tights!)
Okay WW's ticket problems are under control. Now I AM off to bed to watch another 11 minutes of The Lost World before I crash. Let's see, I think last night the velociraptors had just showed up...
I think I am going to give up and mark time until spring and D...
I will continue plan A only b/c I agreed to but in my head and heart I am starting the detachment process...
I had a community member approach me and ask about WH...this individual was troubled and stated they had debated approaching me but bottom line is they recently spotted WH with OW smooching
I confronted WH with information...utter and angry denial and basically a statement that this seals the deal aim for D in the spring...I agreed and shook on the deal
WH calling and tm frequently today trying to joke about the situation...
LB officially empty Out to lunch
I may take a sybatical from MB just to avoid dealing with the emotions as I begin the detachment process...haven't decided yet
Pio....you are too funny....Now you are scared of me? Yeah, right!! You will do what you want, not what anyone here tells you to do. You are implying here that I look like the HUlk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. Hmm. maybe I should send you a pic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.
Anyways...I am half Puertorrican and half Spanish, if you want to know my roots. I consider myself puertorrican since I was raised in Puerto Rico.
I am a FWW, very soon hopefully just a W. Because Stanley and I are doing pretty darn good lately. Our stupid fights and rollercoasters are behind us.
By the way, I am in Public Relations to help you Pio. Ok?
I confronted WH with information...utter and angry denial and basically a statement that this seals the deal aim for D in the spring...I agreed and shook on the deal
2much, I don't understand...D in the spring is a long way off....are you planning to 'share' the house with a WS until then? ...or will he be moving out?
I am sorry, 2much, I know you would have preferred to R your M.
Unfortunately...share the house for $ reasons...I made a promise that I would not evict until WH establishes some financial security...otherwise it would just end up hurting my finances in the long run
I always keep my promises
Call me crazy but even in this nightmare i intend to maintain my integrity
LUNAMERE--Our DD was on June 1,2004. So its been a bit over two years already. Crazy rollercoaster, especially the first year. Stanley, my husband, the BS here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />, has settled to our new relationship. He looks really happy and acts fullfilled with me. We do lots of stuff together, and I dont see any more "dark" looks coming from him to me. By how relax he looks, I can see he has really moved on and put that horrible nightmare behind him, us.
We have been married 33 years, and have five children. So, as you can see, we have a very long history together.
Hmm. I never realised SF was a geographic location. LMAO
...unless, Todd....your intention was to 'confuse' BigK...but I think he's too smart for that...he's going to catch on...sooner or LATER!
No, not at all. I don't believe the BigK is confusable.
Quote
Todd, how do you cuddle up to number?
I should start by saying that I got the idea from Sesame Street. It is a specific number you curl up with, specifically, the number 9. You lay the 9 on its side, and lay behind the curve, so to speak, molding your body to the 9's shape. Then you reach you arms and hands around and the part of the 9 that protrudes becomes....er...well...becomes a playground of sorts. All very logical when you think about it.
Quote
WW called earlier to apologize. Out of the blue. She didn't say she was apologizing for her affair, just that she apologized. I left it alone. She has never apologized before. I thanked her. She said she wanted to work things out. I told her we had much to discuss and that honestly is critical to me. She said she understood and would be honest. I have my doubts but we'll see.
This sounds like a good sign to me...glad to see you didn't start arguing with her...stick to your boundaries....she needs to consider them non-negotiable....up to her whether or not she chooses to respect them, or not.... and consequently, whether or not, you will consider R.....
That's exactly the way I "feel". Thanks.
Quote
My problem is I am not sure how I feel about her anymore. Maybe it is a coping mechanism on my part but again, the trust and honesty issue is huge and I am not sure how to ever trust her again.
Like I was telling Pio....bottom line...it may be up to the BS whether or even attempt will be made for R!
Undoubtedly.
Quote
Feelings are feelings. They mean nothing in the greater scheme. Don't let this be a hurdle.
...that's why decisions are best to not be based solely on EMOTIONS! They are like the wind....
Quote
Todd...need to straighten this out..... I live in Quebec....which like France, is francophone land, but it is not FRANCE....never lived there (although I did visit it....I liked it!)
Luna, I recall a post of yours in which you described being from Italy, then moving to Frahnsay and finally onto New Frahnsay north of here.
Quote
...and what exactly do you hold against France the most? ....since it was before your DS's French GF...that wouldn't be it....although right off the bat, it made you 'hostile' material for her...which she obviously did not overcome. (....and I think I may regret asking the question!)
DS1's GF is not aware that I hate or bash Frahnsay. I do have some coth about me. Not much okay, but a little.
What I hold against Frahnsay the most is the fact that if not for the US and its allies, the language today in Frahnsay would not be French, but German. The French are so arrogant that it doesn't permit a long memory. You would think there would have been a little appreciation for what we did, but no, they are the French. There will be another invasion of Frahnsay one day, because a country does not prevent war by clinging to "peace". Again, we will go rescue their candy a$$es and their attitude will not change. Herein ends the reading.
Luna, Basically there have been multiple OWs, supposedly EAs...I have no idea who the OW was that he was spotted with but at this point it doesn't matter...
I know it can be toxic and therefore we will need ground rules but that is also pretty pointless b/c I doubt he would uphold them.
I really have to think this through and come up with a win/win for me and the kids. I am not going to tolerate WH staying out all night, using family $ for ??? and shirking on household responsibilities. I now regret insisting that he pass on an opportunity to move out for the next year...I insisted that if we were to work on M it would have to be from the same home:(
I'll get back to you. If you have any suggestions I am open to them:)
You need to get more aggressive. Buy sheets for the guest room that are 50 thread count. Put them in the washer and add an entire box of starch. Dry them by hanging them outside. They will be like flexible steel.
Next, install a damper in the HVAC duct that supplies the guest room. Have the control in your bedroom. If it makes it more uncomfortable to supply the treated air, open the damper; otherwise, close it.
Before the guests arrive, paint the room with oil based paint and leave it closed until they get there. Oil based paint stinks to high heaven and the odor lasts a long time.
If you have a television in the guest room, remove it.
If the guest bed has good mattresses, remove them and replace with the cheapest mattresses you can find, even previously owned ones.
Buy one of those extremely low flow showerheads, like the kind you find in the cheapest motels, and install it in the guest bathroom. Remember the Seinfeld episode on this?
Get up in the middle of the night and let the air out of all four of their tires.
If the above doesn't work, burn down the house or move.
You're H seems to have somethings in common with my ex. Mine wanted a new life & couldn't figure out why I wasn't as happy as he was at the prospect of all the excitment that lay ahead.
At one point when we were discussing possibiities for living arrangements he was so happy to have me discussing the possibilities of his future alone away from the family responsibilities. Similar to your H when he texts you making light of it all.
I'm off to teach a pottery class if any students show up. I have one person signed up & paid. She called to say she won't be in tonight. I'm going anyway just in case other last minute people come. It's only worth it to teach for one student if I can do my work too. I look at it as guaranteed time in the studio.
Get him out. If you really want to detach you will have the devil of a job with him living there. Just look at the peace Pio has after only a few weeks.
I have to agree. The biggest problem with Plan B is its name. We are conditioned to think something called a Plan "B" is somehow inferior because we only do it if Plan A fails. We only consider a Plan B if we absolutely have to.
A better way to think of it is Phase I and Phase 2. I have heard so many people say that Phase 2 is really what saves the M. I do believe it. Phase I allows for fence-sitting, cake eating, indecision.
Phase 1 reorganizes the thought structure of the WS. It is critical to the process. Phase 2 is where they finally have to make a decision. I still remember how much fear of separation I had. I think it was important that we waited as long as we did. But now that we are apart, the difference is huge. I am completely at peace with me. I have also seen a huge change in dialogue from WW. Just our MSN conversation last night was eye-opening.
If you cohabitate until the spring, you will be screaming for D by then. It may be that after the D, your WH will see the light and decide he wants back - but you won't want him back. I don't think you can survive that long together and have any hope of recovery. I am guessing that by about January you and WH will be hanging from the chandelier like Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner in The War of the Roses. And we know how that turned out.
I think Plan B is the best part of the Harley plan. Highly under-rated.
ToddAC,
I did read between the lines. When I do, all I can see is your IQ. Anything else I should be looking at?
Myrta,
I never said you LOOKED like the Hulk. I said you have a temper like the Hulk. [Oops. I hope that doesn't make her mad.]
You said I would not consider R based on what people here post. That is, in fact, quite wrong. I am willing to bet that very many people here would have or will choose the D option if it were not for the advice they got from people who have ridden the rollercoaster (and survived). Actually your posts, in particular, over the past several days have radically changed my thinking. I wrote gemela last night to hurry back because we ALL miss her - and I actually meant it.
I just found pictures. Not at ALL how I imagined Pio would look. Not that I had any preconceived ideas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
BTW, can't remember now who asked if DD would mind that I posted her email. That is her "group" email to friends and workmates and not a private one to me. I made sure no real names were used as well.
I am curious how long it will be before Mr. Hyde shows back up here. My guess is three days max. It's only a matter of time. Mr. Hyde is like HPV. It might disappear for a little while but sooner or later it is going to show up again. And when it does, it is ugly.
Well bigK. I think about you a lot lately. I think you are a pretty good role model for the BS considering the prospect of R. KiwiJ puts it differently. She says if an Aussie can do it - anyone can.
Anyway, I am going to take a leap of faith I think. I believe this is my final answer. No - wait - I want to use a lifeline. No. Never mind. This is my final answer.
Bigger,
As I was typing, it suddenly occurred to me that the "n" and the "b" are very close to each other on the keyboard. In fact they are so close that I only caught it on preview. Phew!
You laid out a pretty good blueprint. It makes sense.
Thanks for putting the final nail in the coffin of my marriage. It seriously needed to happen. It is no longer dying, lingering, comatose and on life support. It is over once and for all.
Now let's see if there really is an after life. I always believed there was. Now I'll find out.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Today is the first day in a very long time that I am truly optomistic about our future. I think the demons are gone.
Some marriages should be saved, some should be abandoned and some should be buried.
It is time to start over. I see it now very clearly. G wants to come back and now I want the same thing. We'll see how it goes. Or, as bigger says, maybe we are about to be on the same path.
What Myrta was able to get across to me was that I shouldn't try to save my M because I never had one to save to begin with. It is time for G and I to start over. She took away from Stan-ley exactly what G took away from me. I think I needed to mourn that. Okay its buried and finished. Let's see what the future can hold for gemela and me based on Dr. Harley's principles.
BigK has given me the courage to try that by his example. He had some of the same "requirements" that I have. Only he was willing to wait to acheive them and it apparently worked.
You shouldn't be. Something you posted yesterday struck a nerve. It was the pedestal post. Myrta posted something similar. Husbands should never believe their wives are perfect. I think that, more than anything, is where I failed gemela. I never recognized that she wasn't perfect.
But, my H realized after we lived together that I wasn't perfect and he has a hard time dealing with that now, because I've made so many mistakes and disappointed him in so many ways that we couldn't even imagine over the years and he harbors resentment towards me now. He holds everything against me and has now left me. I'm sure you don't feel that way toward Gemela. Right?
Hey, my x never realized that I am perfect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> He never realized that he isn't perfect.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Actually, I sort of think he expected perfection of me - especially to be a perfect neatnik clone of his mother. And, when I couldn't measure up, he shut down.
Absoultely. I was reading your thread and the desperation of your posts reminded me of me a few months go. I hesitate to go back and read my first threads. But the other factor is that things will likely not happen for the BS in the order that we want them.
Okay Pollyanna version. WS recognizes error. WS begs forgiveness. WS wallows in remorse. WS professes eternal love for BS and WS promises undying devotion forever. BS decides to forgive and BS allows WS back into the M. WS and BS live happily ever after.
Now, all those things can happen and maybe even need to happen. But they will almost never occur in that order nor will they occur within the timeframe that the BS "needs".
BigK allowed the order to change. Most successful recoveries have done the same. They have studied the Harley principles, believed in them and followed them. It won't always work. But it does have a better than average success rate and it is a plan that makes sense.
It just requires a lot of faith and patience on the part of the BS (oh, and strength too).
Well Pio,,,I am so glad that I was able tohelp you sort out yourself. See?? Hulks can be good people too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.
Really happy for you, you seem very optimistic, if I must say. I am glad for you and Gemela. I hope she does not dissapoint you, and she comes back a new improved woman.
I've only been dealing with this for a month and am already going crazy. How can I deal with this for another few months or longer?? Especially not knowing if it's going to be a sure thing (him coming back).
I told you I was one confused BS!! I still feel that desperation and panic a lot.
I'm just ready for this to be over and go on with my life. I'm too old for this! We should be starting our family soon like we always planned on.
Dr. Bannon was a good person - just had a bad temper. Of course, if I grew that much in size but kept my same pants on, I would be pretty pi**ed off too.
What I am trying to tell you.....dont have any expectations. Is better not to have any expectations, and you will pleasantly surprised. Rather than, thinking everything is going to be "perfect" and you find out is something different. You are doing in it again. Just because you have the realization of Gemela not being perfect, does not mean that eveyrthing will be ok now. You BOTH have still a lot of work ahead of you. Have no expectations or very low ones, and you will not be dissapointed.
I've only been dealing with this for a month and am already going crazy. How can I deal with this for another few months or longer??
Well the first few weeks are the hardest. Remember you were trying to make a plan where your H would fall in love you in three weeks? You do develop patience and it does get easier.
Quote
I'm too old for this!
Okay now I AM laughing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What I am trying to tell you.....dont have any expectations.
That's my point. I have zero expectations. Set the bar that low and you can never be disappointed.
I am in a situation where I have nothing left to lose and everything to gain. Where is the downside potential? There is none. Regardless of what happens, it will only be an improvement. And I have nothing but time.
Because you are so young. What makes you think you are old.
Okay this might make you a bit more mature but that is probably a good thing. But old? You have a loooooong way to go.
I know I'm young, but I'm almost 30 and like I said, we should be getting ready to start our family and if we get divorced, I might never get that chance. And I don't want to have kids with anyone but him. I didn't want kids period, until I met him.
OK,OK, I get it, I'm the baby of the group. You can quit laughing at me at any time now. I take back what I said, I'm a young sprite with my whole life ahead of me. Sheesh, I should go back to my own thread for all the abuse I've been getting...
Stph - toughen up baby. Like I said it's nice having you around here. We like you. Don't be so damn thin skinned. Here take this cyberhug (((Stph))) Does that feel better?
I mean that guys, do you know how annoying it is to be called "young"? It's patronising and it's rude.
stph you ARE the baby of the group, you are the same age as my son and I'm afraid we are all quite a bit older than you. As you can see by my sig line I'm 52 and I'm not even the oldest here.
I'm aware that your feelings are just as intense as anyone else's on here and so should the guys be.
BTW, bigkahuna, don't get defensive, I was just kidding with you! But thank you for the hug, I do feel better! No one's given me a cyber hug before! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I know I'm young, but I'm almost 30 and like I said, we should be getting ready to start our family and if we get divorced, I might never get that chance. And I don't want to have kids with anyone but him. I didn't want kids period, until I met him.
stph15,
Honestly, you need to leave this type of thinking behind you. It is counterproducitve. Your goals of a family may still be realized, but deal with the here and now. Things do get better. When I was at your present timeline, I was not much good for anything. Just give yourself time.
Stph - really didn't intend any offense. We are all equals here. Well except for Todd and Pio that is.
BigK, I don't mind you putting me down, but putting me in the same category with Pio, that is unforgiveable.
stph15 or 20 whatever it is (so much for the precision of numbers), listen to BigK. He is well versed in MB principle and has the ability to distill things to a couple of sentences that really hit home.
Honestly, you need to leave this type of thinking behind you. It is counterproducitve. Your goals of a family may still be realized, but deal with the here and now. Things do get better. When I was at your present timeline, I was not much good for anything. Just give yourself time.
I'm stph20 thank you, and I don't know what to think about anything anymore, so I'm thinking everything. I'm thinking about every good time we ever had, every bad time we ever had, all the dreams that we realized together, all the dreams yet to come. My emotions are all over the place right now and I don't know how to stop it. I'm impatient, I want Plan A to have worked already and for everything to be "normal" again. I don't know how you guys can do this for months or even years. I am not that strong.
Honestly, you need to leave this type of thinking behind you. It is counterproducitve. Your goals of a family may still be realized, but deal with the here and now. Things do get better. When I was at your present timeline, I was not much good for anything. Just give yourself time.
I'm stph20 thank you, and I don't know what to think about anything anymore, so I'm thinking everything. I'm thinking about every good time we ever had, every bad time we ever had, all the dreams that we realized together, all the dreams yet to come. My emotions are all over the place right now and I don't know how to stop it. I'm impatient, I want Plan A to have worked already and for everything to be "normal" again. I don't know how you guys can do this for months or even years. I am not that strong.
stph20,
Do you know what you should do? Go to JFO and read the posts from members who just arrived here at MB. It will give you a different perspective.
While I am in no way completely healed, I have come a long ways since DD. Time is the ultimate healer but time alone doesn't do it. You need introspection and outside objectivity.
Don't assume that your dreams of a family are dead. Also, don't count on it. The hardest thing right now is to grab hold of yourself. The members in this thead have been at it longer than you, but trust me, we have all been where you are right now.
Why was my name just changed?? And why wasn't I involved in the changing of it? I don't mind, I've been called worse, just curious.
I know everyone here knows what I'm going through, and I'm happy that I've found you, but what kills me is that one minute I'm fine with whatever is going to happen and the next minute I'm in panic mode.
I think I'm a pretty stable person. I like things neat, organized and secure. My life is not like that anymore and I can't handle it.
I can't stand this limbo. I'm not good at the "waiting game". I'm afraid one day soon, WH is going to win. I don't know how much longer I can hold out.
You guys have my utmost respect and admiration for holding out as long as you have.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to give up and I do want to save my M, but it's KILLING me. I try to take it one day at a time, but it's hard, as you all know.
Every day I come home, I hope to see his truck in my driveway, waiting for me to tell me that he wants to be with me again, or I hope for him to call me and tell me that. I don't wait for it, but I hope for it. I'm not disappointed that it hasn't happened yet.
I've read all through this site and SAA, but I'm still having a hard time grasping what's going on in his head and how he can be so different from the man I married.
I also need another piece of advice. His birthday is in a week and a half. Given our current circumstances, do I get him a gift or no?? I'm having a tough time with this one.
Not only that, but our anniversary is 2 weeks after that. How do I handle THAT?!?
I've read all through this site and SAA, but I'm still having a hard time grasping what's going on in his head and how he can be so different from the man I married.
Now that is a waste of time. Why try to understand insanity? Better to spend your time trying to cure it.
When you get desperate, in a panic, angry, depressed, whatever - come here and post. You can get through this. I swear you talk about roller coaster of emotions, living in panic - that was me 1 year ago and for about 6 months. A lot of really kind people helped me here. They are still on the job. Even now, 5 days ago I was convinced I wanted D. Now Myrta has convinced me to R. So even now I go to extremes. I used to do that several times a day. Now I do it every few days.
There is no quick fix for this. First and foremost is that you have to find a way to get NC established.
You need to breathe hon. Settle down. Stick to a good Plan A. Click on the link to Plan A in my signature below. Snoop on him and be sure the affair is really over - You already know I am positive he is still having sex with her. You have to end the affair to have any hope.
Don't be desperate, needy or clingy. And DON'T have SEX with him!!! Don't let him eat cake. Regardless of how horny you are feeling.
I also need another piece of advice. His birthday is in a week and a half. Given our current circumstances, do I get him a gift or no?? I'm having a tough time with this one.
Not only that, but our anniversary is 2 weeks after that. How do I handle THAT?!?
Okay stph20, you asked for it. The other members in this thread groan.
When I was growing up, in my barber shop was a shoe shine stand. Above the chairs that the patrons sat in was a sign that read:
I felt sorry for myself Because I had no shoes Until I met a man With no feet.
I will give you my own timeline. In November 2005, I was diagnosed with a "large brain tumor." The next month, I confronted my WW of 36 years that I knew she had been having an affair. She denied it of course. The next month, she finally confessed. The following month, February, was our wedding anniversary. I had cleaned the house and cooked a special dinner for WW when she got home from work. She was over two hours late. When I checked her cell log online later, she had called OM. She was with OM on our anniversary. He must have been distraught knowing it was our anniverary and she went to him to sooth him.
Everyone's sitch is relative and unique to us. We create and live in our own private he!!s. As my tagline says, don't try to look too far ahead. Take it slow. Don't expect miracles at this point, but similarly, don't expect the worst.
On DD, I ran, not walked, through the house hitting the wall as hard as I could with my fist. I hit a stud every time. For the next few days, my hand was swollen to twice its normal size.
We have all been where you are right now. It takes time. I am so much better now than the first month it is incredible. Don't misunderstand me, I will never trust my WW again whether we get back together or not. And I harbor overwhelming feelings of vindictiveness towards the OM, whom I know well.
Our sitch's are all relative. None is worse than the other because to us, they are the worst moments we can ever face. Our spouses have taken something, intimacy and exclusivity, and given it to another. Worse in my opinion is the fact that they were full of deceit and lies to cover their escapades.
Take it slow. Make your mind and your emotions your ally; not your enemy.
How do you know that stph = stef? How was that connection made? I did a search on her thread and found no "stef". So why stef? Seems presumptuous. Maybe her patron saint is Saint Phil. Or maybe she is waiting on the STupid PHone 20 hours a day for WH to call.
ToddAC = staph
Interesting he chosen an infection for which there is no cure. Freudian slip?
Oh and by the way, I consider myself damn lucky to have saved my marriage. Divine intervention. I was really lucky folks. Honestly, all I know is I worked the program and it worked. But a lot of people, particularly my friends on this thread had it a lot worse than I did.
I do know MB works. If you can end the affair and follow the MB program, you will end up crazy about each other again. Or maybe that's just crazy.
In case you hadn't noticed, bigK gets royalty payments from Dr. Harley. (just kidding - geez).
Where is that ToddAC Haiku anyway?
I have not saved my M but if it hadn't been for MB (and I have said this many times), I would already be divorced.
MB gave me a strategy for surviving the fog. I didn't always adhere to it perfectly but all cases are a little unique - just like that uniquely special bond between Your WS and the OP that only those two have ever known. The fog is a very confusing time for the BS. It helps to have a road map rather than figure everything out on your own. It did take me some time to understand what Plan A was all about.
MB is not a formula per se. I choose to think of it more as guidelines. I think what bigK is referring to is something I have not quite gotten to yet. But I can see the logic in the methods. I will definitely implement it as best I can in my sitch given the opportunity.
As it is now, things are looking positive. Crossing my fingers.
Poor stef, she's destroyed by a WH then she has a new name forced on her.
stef, it's simple & it's incredibly complex this saving of a marriage.
The simple part: you do what you can to become the spouse your H wants to have. You're both open & honest with one another & you both work to save the marriage. If you have this, especially the commitment of the two of you to work to save the marriage, you're doing REALLY well.
The complex part: There is not one blue print that works for everyone. People bring their own stuff into the recovery business. People are unpredicable, their emotions are unpredicable, their behaviors the same. What you want, what you think is fair, what should be just don't factor in here. It's a day to day process with no defined outcome.
Emotional strength is a must.
2much, as a person who lived with then h for a time knowing we were going to D I would advise against it. My hope at the time was by having him in the house I would have another chance at recovery. Wrong. All it turned out to be was torture. The day he moved out such a burden was lifted from my shoulders I felt physically lighter. No more walking on egg shells, no stomach sick with tension, no more working a plan A with no chance of it working. This because he worked with OW & didn't admit to infidelity.
This pedestal idea is interesting. Here's a bit of a twist on it. ex saw charteristics in me that he lacked but sorely wanted. IMO he felt I could give, maybe bring them out in him, those characteristics just by virtue of being married. He was disappointed because it was an impossible task & one I wasn't even asware I'd been assigned. Similar to a pedestal?
BTW, one student for my pottery class only. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Stef, look at your new name this way: Life's much easier with vowels in it, ask the Scandinavians.
Nam, thanks for sharing your comments about affection. What was first the potter or the vassel?
Todd, I know I shouldn't do it but... I was thinking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Harley mentions a lot romantic love on his radio interventions and I was wondering if you could benefit from dating your WW. Just dates without relationship talk. Simple things that fill your and her romantic love bank and could motivate both of you in different ways but with the same objective in mind. If you date romantically or a little romantically your WW, she may feel motivated to come clean and compensate you for the affair, accepting to become transparente, change friends, NC, etc. If you date her, you may discover you could fall in love again with her.
This is a horrible generalization but maybe Latin women do need more sense of romantic love in their marriages.
What do you think?
Do you like the birdies? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Todd, I know I shouldn't do it but... I was thinking. You see Harley mentions a lot romantic love on his radio interventions and I was wondering if you could benefit from dating your WW. Just dates without relationship talk. Simple things that feel your and her romantic love bank and could motivate both of you in different ways but with the same objective in mind. If you date romantically or a little romantically your WW, she may feel motivated to come clean and compensate you for the affair, accepting to become transparente, change friends, NC, etc. If you date her, you may discover you coiuld fall in love again with her.
larousse, thank you. This is exactly what I tried to do the first time we met for dinner. Things were going extremely well and then she decided that she had to let me know how shw felt about exposure. In her mind, exposure is worse than her affair. Do you see the "logic" I am dealing with here?
Nobody in her family will drop anything. She and her sisters still feud about things that happened years ago. They are like bulldogs with an elephant's memory.
However, this is what I will continue to do, is to see her and "date" her. I do my best to keep things positive and light and to have fun. My goal is to continue to be the man she fell in love with and to recreate those romantic feelings. We'll see.
Quote
This is an horrible generalization but maybe Latin women do need more sense of romantic love in their marriages.
What do you think?
Here is what is so interesting. I am the romantic one. When I would arrive home from work, I would find her, grab her and try to kiss her. She would pull away and say, "we cannot act like newlyweds all our marriage". I have asked her countless times to hold an evening open and let's have a candlelight dinner at home, followed by dancing, etc. She never did. Our anniversary is three days from Valentine's Day. I sent her roses on our anniversary and then also sent roses on VD. She was livid. She told me that the women at work were so jealous of her and make snide comments all day and embarassed her. She will never have to worry about that happening again, I can assure you of that. Anyway, I could go on and on and on.
A big problem with her from my standpoint is the telephone. When she is on the phone, time stands still. She will talk to a sister or friend for hours - yes hours. And I don't mean a day here and there, but almost everyday. I have told her that it takes away from our time. I in no way want to smother her or be smothered, don't misunderstand me. I enjoy my alone time as much as the next guy, but when she comes home from work at, say, six, runs and then comes back and talks on the phone for three hours and then says, well I am tired, I am going to bed, there is not much in life with her for me. The telephone has been an issue for over three decades. She doesn't see or acknowledge the problem. OTOH, I hate talking on the phone. I spend so much time on the phone at work that when I get home, the last thing I want to do is talk on the phone. But, occassionally, I will talk to one of my friends and catch up. A friend called me one night and needed to talk. We talked for over an hour. She was aghast! You sure were on the phone a long time. Let me translate that to English: I couldn't call my sister because you were on the phone.
Quote
Do you like the birdies? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Do you mean the owls? If so, yes. I am the white one in case anyone is wondering. The taller and prettier one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I dont know how to beggin our story... but I know if I dont do it right now, tomorrow I have been cobard as usual.. You can read some tear post in order to understan my situation now.. Writing this is dangerous for me,, I dont want to my H reads all this, because if I dont kill him with this truth he is going to killing me...
My terrible story began some time ago.. I started to email, with a coworker that lives in another country and I never met him in person just by webcam.. Our friendship become so close for me and I thouhgt I was "too much interested in him" In that time my life in house had its problems, but not so big.. my main concern was sexual affection, my H and I just make love once per month,., I asked my H why and he said, because he was so tired and that all.. This coworker (that lives in another country) was as a "master in sex" and he invited me to have sex my webcam.. I denied at first, and I tried to be distant from this coworker, but it was just time.. and I failed,, and I did it by webcam,. it was a new experience and in that time I enjoyed it... and I repeat it several times.. Then things go worst, and we use phone in order to "do it" , this is so embarrassing, but I need to write all this crap that I did,... I live in a society machista and I had my first sexual relation in my weeding night with my H so I havent know any other man in that way.. I had never show my body to another man than my H until this by web cam. I regret about this but I did it.. After this events,, I felt so bad, and my selfsteem was decreasing, and decreasing.. I was so stupid, and I got involved with this coworker, in a sentimental way.. I was afraid to say him no... about his demands of "doing by phone or webcam" and sometimes I could but sometimes not... I found this website in order to look for help and I got it.. (I was culry17 in that time) and thanks to this site I could realize that this first OM was filling my sexual need.. even he never touch me or I to him.. I had a PA right? and my H doesnt now all this... This OM1 told me that we are just having fun and that our spouses never gonna now about this... and he told me.. you can have that you dont have at home wih me but in a safe way, because we haven touch... (I was like obsessed with this OM1 and I tried several times to finish that "friendship").. OM1 challenge me to "taste" some other ways to get sexual "affection" getting in some sites in the internet.. I had told him that I feel something more than desire for him, and he told me I was wrong.. and he invited me to proof another situation... to "make it" with a strange in internet... I regret at first but I did it.. I started to chat with some men in internet... and a man with 42 years old keep my attention.. and we started to chat... and I told him my problem with OM1 and that I need to live this OM1 away.. and proog myself that any other man could fill the need that OM1 did.. Obviously, this "gentleman" offers help me with this,, and "did it" just chating, without any camera... this time I like his tenderness and I prefer OM2 than OM1 in virtual sex.. and I started to stop "contact " with OM1... OM2 and me got closer, and maybe because his age, but he respected me when I said him No cameras.. and I never show my body to him... this OM2 lives in same country but in another state... and I met him once that he came here because his bussiness, and he just went to lunch,, and nothing more... OM2 realized that I dont wanna to do somethin in real life.. and just in fantasy... (Am I sick right?, am I a pervertive woman? or something?) OM2 couldnt get in line frecuently so , I found another "friend" OM3 (with had 43 years old) and similar story... and for me he was the master in "virtual sex",., but this man, said, that he was getting interested and that he didnt want to hurt me or my marriage, so we were agree to stop our chats... and we did it... but meanwhile, I found interesting a chat from a man just one year older than me and he was near than me as he lives in same city.. This OM4 was the worst for me.. because he was charming,, and he suggested how to stop my "virtual sex" with OM's.. at the begining he told me that he just want to help me to leave this mess away.. and to be "clean" in main.. of course at the begining I didnt believe anything... and he just chat a few times... MB members adviced me that I should told my H all the truth, but I was afraid, and cobard... now I know that I should follow that advice... and I havent done things worst... OM5 as he lives in same city, you can guess what happened, well it was just time,, and I met him and in our first date he asked me permission to touch me in ... an private place.. and I got angry and I asked him never look for me again.. I told him I thought we are just friends and your question about masturbate me botters me"" and I leaft the place.. It was a parking place,, OM5 started to send me emails, phone calls, and did everything to keep in contact with me,, and at first I denied,,, but then I started that frienship again.... OM5 said welll I can with the fact that we never gonna have nothing in person just by internet or phone... I told OM5 about all OM's and I share with him severl secrets that I never share with anyone.. I was so stupid!!! and this OM5 was a good listener, and as he has same profession than me,,, we had severl things in common.. I never lied my H about a place where I go, but I hiding that in some appointment, OM5 went with me... once OM5 went with me to some physical analisist... and nothing wrong happened.. OM5 went to my house to review a computer that was broke, and I told my H about this visit... and nothing wrong happened... OM5 went to my house a second time and I told my H also, and then my H got angry why "that friend" always go home when he wasnt there.. at that time. my frienship with OM5 wasnt in another sense.. (well we had had virtual sex") but in person nothing... we got closer and closer friends.. and our "intimate encouters, were longer than before",, (all by internet) and this OM5 never asked me to show him my body by webcam and I felt more comfortable than with all others OM's...
Things were going extremely well and then she decided that she had to let me know how shw felt about exposure. In her mind, exposure is worse than her affair. Do you see the "logic" I am dealing with here?
Could you reach an agreement with her to not talk about difficult topics during your 'dates'?
I can see she seems not only fogged but also very settled in her ideas. Hopefully when you two grow into a re-relationship she would agree to leave the past in the past.
I have the impression you are very capable of not keeping mentioning the affair once you decide to jump completely into the marriage recovery. Maybe in the future she gets to understand why exposure is necesarely if not you could negotiate, without apologising for exposure, you negotiate with her not to mention the affair if she doesn't mention exposure.
The four things Harley says that a couple should be doing during the weekly 15 hours of undivided attention are: Affection Talking intimate to each other Entretainment companionship SF
Quote
Here is what is so interesting. I am the romantic one.
Great, now just don't give her all your romaticism at once, give her or show just a little bit that keep her wishing more. Instead of many flowers maybe just one, very pretty but wrapped simple. One kiss in the lips, barely touching her lips, hold her waist barely and then let it go. Make her crazy for you. By now she must have found out that must men are not as romantic as you.
Quote
A big problem with her from my standpoint is the telephone.
Could it be that your wife has a comunication need bigger than you and she feels that need with her relatives and friends? Do you think you could talk with her more, chit chat more?
Sometimes we women, or at least my younger and sister and I preffer to chat with each other because we can talk as women, lol, and sometimes her husband doesn't understand her need to discuss many irrelevants issues and sometimes he tries to find solutions when she just wants to share some thoughts. I guess you know all that. If you can listen to her when needs to chit chat, she may start to feel closer to you, you start to be her budy too, a friend that won't judge her or offer her a solution, just listen to her.
She mentioned the house in the Golf Club. Don't objet to discuss the topic with her, in fact paint a very positive picture but don't take any practical action yet.
::::::
The white fellow is in fact very unique in birds and owls, it's an 'albino', you know? like this condition in very white people, lol, no, no Swedens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Maybe if she feels we muck her she won't open up and get some support that may could help her?
I suspect she may not be in the 'mood' to take your always clever humor with a grain of salt right now.
I'm very happy to read that you and G worked together bookig her flight, sounds very promising, I hope things really get better before maid ends DD's hands with that brillo thing. Seriously I feel G may be happyliy surprised that you take so good care of DD and that you are a devoted father. She seemed to need that reassurance in some of her old posts.
Things were going extremely well and then she decided that she had to let me know how she felt about exposure. In her mind, exposure is worse than her affair. Do you see the "logic" I am dealing with here?
Quote
Could you reach an agreement with her to not talk about difficult topics during your 'dates'?
I can see she seems not only fogged but also very settled in her ideas. Hopefully when you two grow into a re-relationship she would agree to leave the past in the past.
My WW is not a reasonable person. She is not one to reach agreements. She is like her family which is extremely combative. They will argue when there is nothing to argue about. It is a bloodsport to them. When we “discuss” things, I remain very calm. She immediately gets excited and starts raising her voice. I let her say her part and then I begin to say mine. She interrupts me within a few words and argues. I have two choices at this point: either continue with a screaming match which has much less appeal to me than to her, or shut down and she will finally wind down. How do you reason with someone like this and reach an agreement?
Quote
I have the impression you are very capable of not keeping mentioning the affair once you decide to jump completely into the marriage recovery. Maybe in the future she gets to understand why exposure is necessary if not you could negotiate, without apologizing for exposure, you negotiate with her not to mention the affair if she doesn't mention exposure.
The four things Harley says that a couple should be doing during the weekly 15 hours of undivided attention are: Affection Talking intimate to each other Entretainment companionship SF
I never mention the affair anymore unless she brings up exposure. I am tired to talking about her A to her because I hate all the lies. Did the fact that she had SF with OM bother me? Yes. Emotional intimacy with OM? Yes. Shared secrets with OM? Yes. But it all pales in comparison to the way I feel about the lies and deceit, especially the fact that she used our sons as pawns to further and justify her lewd ambitions. I will be honest. I do not forgive easily especially for such a fundamental transgression. I am working on it every day but nothing thus far. She knows this about me and constantly says that she knows I will never forgive her. I also harbor ill will towards OM of huge proportions. I work every day to keep this anger in check but thus far to no avail. I grew up in a tough neighborhood. We are all benefactors or victims of our childhood environments. One thing I was taught was you never let someone get by with doing something to you. It is very difficult for me to shed those teachings.
I will talk to WW about the 15 hours per week issue. How do you spend 15 hours with a spouse who does the following:
1. She is gone to work, including lunch and commute for ten hours per day; 2. She talks on the phone 2-3 hours per day when she gets home; 3. She drinks excessively. Let me define that. A bottle of wine per night; 4. She is addicted to television which she denies; 5. As for SF, she is currently in menopause and her SF drive has waned. Mine is still like an eighteen year olds. I must have a hormone imbalance or something but she is happy with weekends only while I could engage in SF three times per day every day. How do I reconcile those differences?
You know what is so weird? I never realized how many issues I had with her until after DD. If DD represents death in some way, I suppose death has a way of making you think about your life.
Quote
Here is what is so interesting. I am the romantic one.
Quote
Great, now just don't give her all your romaticism at once, give her or show just a little bit that keep her wishing more. Instead of many flowers maybe just one, very pretty but wrapped simple. One kiss in the lips, barely touching her lips, hold her waist barely and then let it go. Make her crazy for you. By now she must have found out that must men are not as romantic as you.
Well, apparently men in affairs are very romantic, at least that is what I have read. I don’t worry about OM in that regard or in the SF regard. I am very confident in that area. My WW and I have enjoyed a wonderful SF life together. She is very passionate and this greatly appeals to me.
Larousse, when I say I am romantic, trust me, I am romantic. I had a good idea what it means. I spend a lot of time thinking of little gestures, hugs, kisses, neck kisses, etc. It comes naturally to me for some reason. Odd when you consider my background. Here is a small example. I love foreplay. She does too obviously but I like long and drawn out foreplay. This is not always practical I realize, but when it is, I try to take advantage. How can I say this? She heats up very quickly. While I think I am just getting started, she is on fire like a stack of straw. I guess I shouldn’t complain but there is no discussing this issue. She is just that way and she wouldn’t be able to change it and I wouldn’t expect her to.
Quote
A big problem with her from my standpoint is the telephone.
Quote
Could it be that your wife has a comunicate need bigger than you and she feels that need with her relatives and friends? Do you think you could talk with her more, chit chat more?
Sometimes we women, or at least my younger and sister and I preffer to chat with each other because we can talk as women, lol, and sometimes her husband doesn't understand her need to discuss many irrelevants issues and sometimes he tries to find solutions when she just wants to share some thoughts. I guess you know all that. If you can listen to her when needs to chit chat, she may start to feel closer to you, you start to be her budy too, a friend that won't judge her or offer her a solution, just listen to her.
Yes, men are fixers. I am guilty of that. One day WW was complaining about work and I offered some feedback and helpful suggestions. She said: you are always trying to fix things, I want somebody to talk to. Well, she had just watched the sissy John Gray on Oprah and he said this very thing. She had never brought it up before. Again, her outlook and opinions are shaped by others too much of the time. This brings me to another point: is it unreasonable to insist that she have no friends who are not friends of the marriage? Her best friend has been trying to get WW to D me for over twenty years. She wants WW to join her club of misery. Her BF deserted her family years ago and is an alcoholic.
She doesn’t want conversation BTW; she wants gossip and I hate gossip. Plus I never have any. She will talk to one sister and they will spend hours talking about the other sister. Then WW will talk to the other sister and they will talk about the first sister. We used to walk together after I got home from work. Every day, for the entire walk, WW would go on and on and on about an argument with her sister. I told her repeatedly that I don’t walk with her to hear gossip about her sister or for her to put her sister down. She would never stop. I quit walking with her and never will again but it will continue where it left off. No, I think the solution lies with WW. She needs to lessen her time on the phone. I should say it goes beyond the phone as well. There is one sister who also abandoned her family and is an alcoholic. She is miserable and does her best to make WW miserable. WW will meet her just about anytime and anywhere that her sister wants. One day, we were having a great discussion about our M after DD. It was our best day thus far and I felt good about things. The phone rang and WW jumped up and ran to get the phone. It was her sister. They talked for 2.5 hours. When WW got off the phone, I asked her why she ran to get the phone when we were having such a great discussion. She said she thought we were finished. I was in mid-sentence when the phone rang. Conclusion: she is addicted to the phone. Then there is her cell phone. Every single month, she talks on her cell for 1,500 minutes or so. That is 25 hours, almost an hour per day, and that is in addition to the home phone time.
Quote
She mentioned the house in the Golf Club. Don't objet to discuss the topic with her, in fact paint a very positive picture but don't take any practical action yet.
When I was still living at home, this was an important ingredient of Plan A. I continue to do this now. I will take no action however until I again fall in love with her again, if I do, and she has agreed to some basic conditions going forward.
Quote
The white fellow is in fact very unique in birds and owls, it's an 'albino', you know? like this condition in very white people, lol, no, no Swedens.
Well, I am half German and half English so I am very light in complexion. Does that make me an albino? I just think the white owl is unusual (me) and prettier than the other one (me). And smarter too (me). lol
hang in there...lots of good advice already given to you. You are not alone; you'll see by the posts that we all have our good moments/hours/days and bad. Sometimes they change so frequently you think you are crazy but that is normal...you adjust and you use diversion, meditation, humor, whatever you can find that works to calm you and take your mind off of what your spouse is doing/thinking/planning etc.
Don't dwell on the kid thing now, you are in no position to be adding stress to your life. There is never a perfect time but try to get back some stability and security. One of the strongest recommendations I can make is that you get your marriage to where you want it before taking the kid plunge. Develop a foundation of intimacy, companionship, love, trust, fun...make memories you can look back on when times get stressed with the kids...something you can look forward to continuing in smaller episodes once the kids arrive. You need time to grow and mature as a couple. I speak from experience...also I didn't even start having kids till I was 30 and having the extra maturity and patience has benefited myself and kids <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
BK...you remind me of a sensei or a warm teddy bear...maybe a combo...I'm waiting to hear you conclude with "grasshopper" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
ToddAC, Sounds like your wife is missing out big time...wish I had to contend with her problem of living with you...I could even deal with all the # craziness if I had the rest of the package...should I call her and tell her what's she is missing? Maybe she'll listen if it's by phone???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Pio, Quite the turn around...never saw it coming...neither will G...you'll blow her out of the water...does she like surprises?
KiwiJ., Can't see you involved in a fight unless it's verbal...have you ever engaged in a physical altercation? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
Nams, I see what you are saying and prior to reading the post had already asked him if there was anyway he could just leave....
this led to all kinds of panic by him...20+ attempts to call me etc. Basically what he said was that he was willing to just focus on getting our business aspects together so that by spring we could just make a clean break and bury the M...
I asked for some clarification based on his verbage...
He told me he wished I had someone else and would even watch the kids if I found someone I was interested in...I asked why...and then told him I felt it was so that he could avoid taking responsibility...told him I wanted to find the man I married...he said it hurt that I felt he wasn't that man...I told him I would go to great lengths to find that man and help him find his way home...he said that I could say what I wanted but he knew I could never forgive him for the past 10yr...I specified that with openess, honesty, no more OWs and no more lies I could start from scratch and recreate a new and better M...we talked later but never referred to any of this exchange only kid stuff...
I have no other alternative except to try and live amiably until we can get our business life on track...I could end up seriously extinguishing any ember but unless something gives I'm gonna have to ride the waves. I have also lived through this before in M#1 but no kids involved so much different...you are correct though...H#1 and I have not seen or spoken for over 10yrs...no regrets though...you really get true colors when the heat is up that high
You need to get more aggressive. Buy sheets for the guest room that are 50 thread count. Put them in the washer and add an entire box of starch. Dry them by hanging them outside. They will be like flexible steel.
Next, install a damper in the HVAC duct that supplies the guest room. Have the control in your bedroom. If it makes it more uncomfortable to supply the treated air, open the damper; otherwise, close it.
Before the guests arrive, paint the room with oil based paint and leave it closed until they get there. Oil based paint stinks to high heaven and the odor lasts a long time.
If you have a television in the guest room, remove it.
If the guest bed has good mattresses, remove them and replace with the cheapest mattresses you can find, even previously owned ones.
Buy one of those extremely low flow showerheads, like the kind you find in the cheapest motels, and install it in the guest bathroom. Remember the Seinfeld episode on this?
Get up in the middle of the night and let the air out of all four of their tires.
If the above doesn't work, burn down the house or move.
Now..I might be missing something....Dru...but why not just say 'I am sorry...we will not be able to help with accomodation'? Although I must admit...Todd has some very imaginative ideas!
BigK,
Quote
Luna - Trust me I am not in any way confused. LOL
....I was just teasing Todd.... Never in a million years would I think that of you! LOL (....even if you do live in Australia!) LOL
Quote
Husbands should never believe their wives are perfect. I think that, more than anything, is where I failed gemela. I never recognized that she wasn't perfect.
...if not...it will create false expectations....with... resentement right behind! ...these are 'killers' in any relationship...
For me, knowing for a fact that there are people like Myrta, BigK and all the others that have survived an A.....means it's POSSIBLE...if you want it...if they can do it.....it's DOABLE... IF one is prepared to do the work!
Pio...if you allow G. to see your new optimistic attitude and enthusiasm, it will make all the difference... and I wouldn't be surprised that she will WANT to join in to work WITH you on new M.
should I call her and tell her what's she is missing? Maybe she'll listen if it's by phone????
Maybe communication via phone is the key. But caution, you would have to gossip for most of the conversation. You can never go wrong talking about her oldest sister and there is plenty of material. And if you don't speak Spanish, you would need to learn because the phone conversations are half English and half Spanish. English when things are calm and Spanish when she gets excited. Hmm... I wonder why that is? lol
Quote
He told me he wished I had someone else and would even watch the kids if I found someone I was interested in...I asked why...and then told him I felt it was so that he could avoid taking responsibility...told him I wanted to find the man I married...he said it hurt that I felt he wasn't that man...I told him I would go to great lengths to find that man and help him find his way home...he said that I could say what I wanted but he knew I could never forgive him for the past 10yr...I specified that with openess, honesty, no more OWs and no more lies I could start from scratch and recreate a new and better M...we talked later but never referred to any of this exchange only kid stuff...
I have no other alternative except to try and live amiably until we can get our business life on track...I could end up seriously extinguishing any ember but unless something gives I'm gonna have to ride the waves. I have also lived through this before in M#1 but no kids involved so much different...you are correct though...H#1 and I have not seen or spoken for over 10yrs...no regrets though...you really get true colors when the heat is up that high
My gosh 2much, you have been at this for 10 years? Surely your are a saint, an angel. At a minimum, you have earned you way into heaven if anyone has. I would say I will see you there but WW assures me I won't make it. We'll see.
I understand that financially WH cannot move out now, but you are in for a some tough months. I am sure you know this. You are in limboland and his being there will be constant reminders. Try to find ways to stay busy without him as much as possible. And keep posting here; I think it will serve you well. Yes, both the serious and fun stuff.
I have skim read the last 3 pages. I've only read posts that are no more than 3 lines long. So, I agree Stph should be steph although I agree with Pio it may not mean steph at all. I also presume you mean mud slinging not mud wrestling.
And you didn't answer my pressing question from yesterday. Do you still have a moustache?
Okay, I am domestically challenged and realize it. I am trying to make dinner. I have some left over roast pork that WW sent to me. Nothing quite like PR roast pork. Not sure what all she puts in it, but I know it marinates in the fridge for two days with lots of garlic and I think vinegar and other spices. Stinks up the entire fridge. Anyway, I have some carrots and want to bake a potato. I will bake it in the microwave. I eat the entire potato including the skin so I need to wash the potato. When I wash the potato, do I used plain water or do I use soap like Dawn? I will scrub it with a paper towel since I don't have a Fuller brush. And please hurry, I am hungry.
WH called me at work today livid. Our cell phones were restricted because of a stupid mistake I made paying the bill. Now, mind you, I lost my job in May and our bills fell behind and they are still behind and WH knows this. So anyway, he's absolutely mad about this bill even though I had already taken care of it. So he yells at me and basically tells me I'm stupid and can't do elementary math. but he wants nothing to do with paying the bills. Figure that out. I don't do it well enough, but he doesn't want to do it. Anyway, he was supposed to come over tonight for dinner and he's still coming over to pick some stuff up, but told me not to bother with dinner, he's getting his stuff and getting out of here. Now this was about 5 hours ago, so there is a chance he could have calmed down, but I'm betting not.
What do I do when he comes over? Do I have dinner ready anyway and tell him he's welcome to eat with me, or do I not have dinner ready for him even though I want him to stay?
So he yells at me and basically tells me I'm stupid
stef,
When he yells at you and calls you stupid what do you do? Did he engage in this kind of behavior before his A? Yelling at a woman and telling her she is stupid is despicable and disgusting. He needs to grow up and learn to be a gentleman, if that is even possible for him. This really makes me mad.
Quote
What do I do when he comes over? Do I have dinner ready anyway and tell him he's welcome to eat with me, or do I not have dinner ready for him even though I want him to stay?
I would NOT have dinner ready. First of all, he doesn't deserve dinner. Second, he needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions and words. Besides, he didn't want dinner, let him have his way on this one, lol.
He didn't come right out and call me stupid, it was just verbal abuse due to his anger. I'm used to it. I used to argue and yell and abuse back, but I don't anymore. I just don't care. I tell him that I understand how's he feeling about the bills and I feel the same way and I'm sorry that I got us into this mess, but I'm doing the best I can to catch us up.
Y'all should be proud, I don't LB anymore. I'm impressed with myself. Is that considered an act of Plan A? If so, then I'm really impressed with myself!
No I don't. I won't go into details but the behavior was really strange. Why log on and off and on as various people if all you want to do is read? Why log on at all in that case?
She was either here trying to delete everything she could delete or it was her BH logging on as her. There was a great deal of "searching" going on.
I also never knew before that she has been here on MB since 2004. I always had the impression that this was a fairly recent thing but it has been going on for years - if it ever really happened at all.
In one way or another, she is obviously addicted to the internet - either for porn or attention (or both). As vindictive as she is, I am just copying everything in case I need it. I have also downloaded all her threads and am getting email updates on everything she posts so, whether she posts and deletes or not, she can't delete the email copy I have.
She has been at this for years. Apparently people have been telling her to confess to BH since 2004. She is not nearly as "innocent the victim" as she let's on to be. Tear never had a PA. Regreted had 3 PA's and curly17 had 5 PA's. Explain that to me.
So anyway, he's absolutely mad about this bill even though I had already taken care of it. So he yells at me and basically tells me I'm stupid and can't do elementary math. but he wants nothing to do with paying the bills. Figure that out. I don't do it well enough, but he doesn't want to do it.
Was he always like this or is this recent behavior? Think before you answer.
He's always gotten upset over bills if they were late or we didn't have the $$ or whatever the situation was. It may be a little worse than it was, but not much at all.
Explode? I do poke holes in it but I thought that was to dry it out. Hmm.. I think I will cook one without poking holes just to see it explode.
Most new microwaves have a "potato" button. Do poke holes. I always put mine in wrapped in a moistened paper towel. After I take them out, I wrap them in aluminum foil and let them sit for a few minutes longer to "repose".
If you cook them for 30 minutes, poke holes in the microwave itself so IT doesn't explode!
If you cook them for 30 minutes, poke holes in the microwave itself so IT doesn't explode!
Thanks but your advice came a little late. I'll get back here after I talk with the fire marshall, homeland securtiy and the maintance man. None of them seem very happy right now.
He's always gotten upset over bills if they were late or we didn't have the $$ or whatever the situation was. It may be a little worse than it was, but not much at all.
That being the case, IMO it is a very good indicator of how he viewed your relationship pre-A and may be a contributing factor to the A. I am not saying he has affairs because you don't pay bills. I am saying that you said he had you on a pedestal but my take is he viewed you more as a pet. I don't think I am explaining that well. My point is that he may have always viewed you as inferior or else needed to try to feel superior. It is not a matter of being a gentleman or not. Okay maybe he shouldn't yell. But even if he is polite about his abuse of you, the attitude is still there.
I'll get back here after I talk with the fire marshall, homeland securtiy and the maintance man. None of them seem very happy right now.
Nah, they love this stuff. They'll be talking about this for weeks.
Just to be clear for the NEXT microwave. I put the foil on AFTER I REMOVE the potato from the oven. Don't put the foil on BEFORE zapping the potato. On second thought, try it. those guys will be back and have even more stories to tell their buddies <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
First of all, what does IMO mean? Before I get made fun of again, bear in mind I haven't been here long!
And I had kind of thought along the same lines as you. The longer our bills are behind and I'm the one paying them, the angrier he's going to be and that's just going to push him further and further into divorce.
I think a big part of my problem is that I am so emotionally drained, that I'm not thinking straight about anything. Hense my confusion about everything.
The longer our bills are behind and I'm the one paying them, the angrier he's going to be and that's just going to push him further and further into divorce.
I don't make that connection at all. On the contrary - feeling superior to you may be an important EN for WH. If OW doesn't let him do that too, it might be a turn off for him.
My point is that IMO it is an indicator of one of the fundamental problems in the M.
IMO = in my opinion IMHO = in my humble opinion IMVHO = in my very humble opinion
OTOH (on the other hand) that is JMO (just my opinion) - FWIW (for what it's worth).
I don't think he does want to feel superior to me though. If he did, he would take over paying the bills. He wants nothing to do with it though. I totally agree that our finances are a HUGE part of our problem. I honestly don't think any of this would have happened if our $$ situation was straight.
OK guys, he'll be here in, like, 5 minutes. Tell me how to handle this!
Ok, no time for a potato.
Be pleasant. No fighting. No LB's. Don't talk about D. If he brings it up, tell him you don't want it and that will be his choice alone but son't say more than that. Don't talk about the A and leave OW alone.
I don't think he does want to feel superior to me though. If he did, he would take over paying the bills.
I disagree. By placing that responsibility on you, it gives him the perfect opportunity to fell superior. Maybe someone else can explain it better than me. By allowing you to do things and criticize you, it does more for his ego than him doing it himself while telling you that you are not capable.
I'll have to tell you the Thanksgiving dinner story. Remind me later.
My point was that he will be there in 5 minutes. A potato will take 6-7 minutes. You are one to two minutes shy of time. Make him something faster than a potato.
OK, that makes sense to me. If he really loved me though, why would he want to make me feel stupid when I mess things up? Doesn't he realize that I feel bad enough when I do it?
Yes he does realize that. Look, go talk to WH. This topic isn't mission critical but I can try to explain it better when we both have more time. It is 2:00AM and I want to try to get at least one hour more of sleep. Back later.
Let me guess - your German heritage showing through?
Ve are superior!
Quote
I bet the dark owl runs faster.
Yes that is true. The white owl OTOH stands his ground and fights.
BTW, the officials just left. I have to pay a $50.00 fine. The hotel I am staying in is in a very posh township here and they don't like "trouble". False fire alarms fit their defintion of "trouble". And the homeland security rep, who was a woman, said someone reported an explosion and you can guess the rest. The maintenance guy warned me to not put foil on the potato next time. I told him my buddy in SA told me to wrap it in foil. Then the homeland security woman, said your friend in where? She had the cuffs on me for five minutes. I told her, oh, you like it kinky eh? Hmm... no sense of humor at all. I need to move.
I told him my buddy in SA told me to wrap it in foil. Then the homeland security woman, said your friend in where?
BTW ToddAC, you get all the credit for this one. We already cannot take more than a handbag on an airplane. It cannot have liquids, gels, pastes or baby food. Now they are going to prohibit us from carrying microwave ovens, potatoes and aluminum foil on airplanes! All because of YOU and your big mouth!
When are you and Todd going to consummate this ongoing EA?
All this lovey dovey EA stuff is puke making.
We cannot. We are soulmates don't you know?
And BTW, when I picture you and Myrta fighting, it is in mud. It would be a great fight but I am placing 5:3 odds in favor of Myrta. That PR blood is something to contend with.
We have discussed this before. Myrta has no true advantage over KiwiJ. The reason that KiwiJ would lose is that she would naturally fight according to the Marques of Queensbury rules. That is always a disadvantage.
I have been debating whether to buy half of my friend's company or even to return to work. I have decided against both. When I was a teen, I played in a band. I play guitar. It was the greatest experience of my life. Groupies all around you whenever you play on stage. Anyway, I am going to join a band. Initially, I thought I may be a little too old, but then I look at Ron Wood and Mick Jagger and they are what, 85, 86 or so? So it is settled. I have a drummer. I need another guitarist, keyboards and bass. I can write music and lyrics so we do lay down tracks of our own stuff. I guess I have delusions of gradeur but honestly, if I am going to have delusions, why shouldn't they be of grandeur?
And we'll cover some other recording artists as well. Eagles, Beatles, U2, Counting Crows, America, etc. I also have contacts in the recording industry so that will help. Since Atlanta is the music capital of the world, that will help as well.
Just a quick thought for you Todd. In reading the differences you're finding with your WW & given the fact they seem substantial, what do you see in her that makes you want to save the marriage? Do you think since SF is your top EN & perhaps you're missing that, this is influencing your desire to stay married?
How does any of this matter if your WW won't acknowledge, much less work on the fact, she is an alcoholic? No disrespect intended.
I did get another hour of sleep, got up and stairclimbed, and now getting ready to leave. The maid pointed out to me last night she is running low on cleaning supplies so I am making my shopping list.
Tonight I coach DD1's soccer game and then DD2 has a game right after. I am "Snack Mom" tonight so am busy putting together packages for the girls. We only have 12 on the team but I need about twice that for their younger brothers and sisters who go to the games and cry when they can't have snacks too.
My son is looking to get a band together...shall I tell him you're interested Todd?
With just one pottery student I plan to make a gazillion pieces so when I have my show in Aug. I'll have so much work I'll need a truck to get it to the gallery.
Oh & since it can get kinda boring with just one student I think I'll conjure up Patrick Swazzy just to add a little excitment.
I feel sorry for you Pio. I don't know if you saw my post about a soccer game I saw a couple of weeks ago with 8 year olds. One poor man was out there by himself while one boy was on his back kicking his legs in the air, another was pretending to swim while one his stomach on the field & one girl was dancing along the lines.
Just a quick thought for you Todd. In reading the differences you're finding with your WW & given the fact they seem substantial, what do you see in her that makes you want to save the marriage? Do you think since SF is your top EN & perhaps you're missing that, this is influencing your desire to stay married?
Do you ask that because I have chewed all my knuckles off or because I take 14 cold showers per day?
The key phrase is "desire to stay married". I am not at all convinced that I want to stay married. Until DS3 played cupid, I was content to concentrate on my health and file once I know the verdict. I am no longer in love with her, I know that. Can it be rekindled? I don't know. I have my doubts. After being married to a person for more than three decades, you know them. She will not change. She will never agree to IC/MC or transparency. She will say she agrees to NC but will never send a letter to OM. Whether she sends a letter or not, I will never trust her again. Trust and honesty are huge issues for me. WW has always told me that I am "too honest". How can one be too honest? She doesn't mean that I tell someone their hairstyle stinks or anything like that, just that she knows she can trust me completely and she can. I am corny. I am a one woman man. She is at least a two man woman, maybe a four man woman. I can never trust her again.
I will give it a good try. I will tell her the conditions for us to R. She will reject and that will be the end of it. Then I have to face DS3. I do not look forward to that. Not one bit.
Quote
How does any of this matter if your WW won't acknowledge, much less work on the fact, she is an alcoholic? No disrespect intended.
None taken. Well none of it matters as long as she continues her drinking. The problem is, she doesn't admit that she has a drinking problem. I don't know the offical definition of an alcoholic but I use two working defintions. One is if a person "has" to have that drink. She does. A bottle of wine per night. That is a lot of drinking. The other is, does the person undergo a basic personality change when they are drunk. She becomes an absolute monster.
She will not accept my pleas for her to cut back on her drinking. I like Pio's suggestion in this regard, i.e., to cover this in MC. The only problem is, I don't see her agreeing to MC so......
She tried a box of wine one time at the suggestion of OMXW. She didn't like it. No, she buys the good stuff. I earned a very good living and her wine habits are rather expensive. I would estimate her drinking to cost $600 per month. At least she doesn't smoke.
IMO BigK assumes love. Lost for the moment amidst the betrayal but still there. You, Todd, describe a marriage that sounds like love has been missing for a long while. Toss in some serious differences & the HUGE factor of alcoholism well.....
Just a stab here but maybe you don't like to lose. You've built up a family, a marriage, you've worked hard & kept it together for 30 plus years. WW throws that out the window as unimportant. It's a challenge to get back what you thought you had.
Wrong Nams. I don't assume love. My wife HATED me when she finished her affair and came home. I assume NO love. I assume NOTHING other than a willingness to attempt recovery.
Your son, like my three boys, will have to deal with this in his way & in his time. But faking something for the sake what he thought was there? I don't know...sounds like a friend of mine who tried to keep her 11 year old son from figuring out there was no Santa. Not within her control.
And...believe I KNOW your heart break concerning your sons. I spent many nights sitting on my youngest son's bed talking about the break up of the family.
I mean Todd feeling love for his WW. It sounds like he wants the marriage for reasons other than he REALLY wants to be with his wife because he loves her.
Yes, I've faked it until I made it earlier on in my marriage so I know first hand it can work.
I talking here about fundamental differences. Todd has shared a lot about his WW's characteristics. Many of which are ingrained, many seem to be habit, many he doesn't like & feel will not change. Is he working toward the recovery of a good marriage prior to the infidelity? Maybe prior to what led to infidelity?
Well Todd can't do anything by himself. His wife has to want to make it work and be willing to change as well at some point or recovery is impossible. (Note his wife being willing is not a prerequisite to start recovery though - although in Todds case that may well be a requirement)
My wife, in our case had no interest in me, our marriage or anything other than she knew she had to give our marriage another try. That was enough for us to start recovery. After around 6 weeks we found MB and worked the program. 1 year later our marriage and love is unmistakable.
Interesting BigK, this formula approach was one of ex's main objections to Harley's plan. He said it looks like you can take any two people, stick them together, meet EN's & you have a loving relationship.
There is something to be said for meeting ENs in a desirous way. Not only because you know it's a formula that works but with passion & love. I understand that may come in time, but how much is forced?
You had the participation of your wife & she apparently understood & was willing to put in the work. An alcoholic or people with other major issues who are unwilling to address those problems will not be in a position to make the formula work. Even when they say they want the marriage.
Just a stab here but maybe you don't like to lose. You've built up a family, a marriage, you've worked hard & kept it together for 30 plus years. WW throws that out the window as unimportant. It's a challenge to get back what you thought you had.
Ouch! Ouch!! Nams, don't hit me anymore. Your phrase, "don't like to lose" made me think of the Jackson Browne's lyrics from "Your Bright Baby Blues".
I can see it in your eyes You've got those bright baby blues You don't see what you've got to gain But you don't like to lose You watch yourself from the sidelines Like your life is a game you don't mind playing To keep yourself amused I don't mean to be cruel baby But you're looking confused
I do not like to lose as a matter of fact. And yes, as Jackson suggested, I am confused. But again, I was very content to walk away from my marriage in March. Had it not been for DS3's "urging" I would have never talked to WW again until it was time for D. I do not know. I am confused.
Quote
Do you know any Alejandro Sanz songs?
No afraid not. I am sure DS2 does. He also plays guitar and played in a band while in college.
At first it was TOTALLY forced. And your ex was right.
Take any 2 people, meet EN's etc => Love I mean Harley does talk about some basic compatibility issues in "Buyers Renters and Freeloaders" but essentially, forget the soulmate idea, any 2 people will fall in love under the right circumstances. In the case of married people, they fell in love once and they can again.
When 2 people hate each other, there is no desire to meet EN's. But if they make a decision to meet EN's regardless of their desires, they can and will fall in love again. Without going over the top personal, my wife would not let me touch her in any way for weeks. But eventually, she made a decision that if we were indeed going to be married, just maybe sex was important. So essentially, she decided to start having sex with me again. Mind you it was pretty forced for her - but it bonded us somewhat. But it was very vanilla with minimal touching or anything other than the job at hand. Pretty mechanical. But she did it. Deliberately meeting my top EN.
You had the participation of your wife & she apparently understood & was willing to put in the work. An alcoholic or people with other major issues who are unwilling to address those problems will not be in a position to make the formula work. Even when they say they want the marriage.
Yes any type of addiction makes recovery impossible - lovers, alcohol, drugs etc. All must be dealt with before marital recovery is possible.
My ex said he felt he had to give our marriage a try but that didn't include a lot of things that had to be in place for recovery to actually work.
It sounds like Todd's WW may have some things that must be in place for them to recover but is unwilling to do that work. If one's heart isn't truely in the recovery the long term won't be what they want.
As to Todd's reasons for recovery being irrelevant...I don't think so. He can work to save the marriage for his son, that's not a reason in the long run that will give him the partner he wants.
My wife, in our case had no interest in me, our marriage or anything other than she knew she had to give our marriage another try.
This was exactly what happened in my case. I also drink a bottle of wine most nights. I don't turn into anything but a chatty drunk. I also smoke like a chimney.
As to Todd's reasons for recovery being irrelevant...I don't think so. He can work to save the marriage for his son, that's not a reason in the long run that will give him the partner he wants.
I never said it was a good enough reason long term.
I say unless you are in love with your partner and have a great marriage, long term it is pointless being together. - Long term the reasons that cause you to decide to recover don't wash. You have to be in love to stay married IMO.
Oh and Stef - very proud of you. But you have to tell us what DID happen now
WH came in (like he still lives here, which irks me a little, but that's OK) and played with the dog and when he came back in, I, very casually, told him that I went ahead and made dinner and he was more than welcome to eat. Sorry to go against the advice, but I felt like I needed to feed him. So we ate, he used the Internet for a while and he loaded his truck with some stuff. I will admit that I did try to initiate SF, but he was not interested AT ALL. So, I let him be. I walked him out to his truck after a while and we started talking. I told him that I moved my appointment with my lawyer up and I see her tomorrow. I told him I still didn't know what I was going to do, but we still love each other and it doesn't make sense to me to get divorced when both people still love each other. He asked me how counseling was going. I told him that I hadn't been since the day after he moved out, but it went well. I told him that I would still like for him to go and maybe clear his head and be totally honest with someone. He told me that he was being honest with me, but that I didn't believe him. I told him that I believed he was unhappy, but I also believe that we used to be happy and we can get that back. I told him that I was fine here at the house by myself. Better than I thought I'd be and I'm kind of glad this happened, because it's given me a chance to find myself and knowing me the way I'm starting to, will make me a better wife. I told him that maybe because we were so young, I really didn't know how to handle being in love yet. I said it took me longer to fall in love with him than it took for him to fall in love with me, but when I did, I just lost myself in him and that's why I was so clingy. I told him that I know we have a lot of issues, the biggest being the A, but that we can work through it.
He told me to call him when I wanted him to go see the counsler. HUGE step for my H. He also thanked me for him not being able to sleep tonight, because he will be thinking.
I know I may not have made the best move in talking about us, but I think I may have parted the fog and gotten through a tiny bit. I'm happy with that for now.
My main criticism is not that you treid to initiate SF but that you told him you didn't know what you were going to do.
I don't care if you don't know - but you should not tell him that. What you tell him is that you are not going to filed for D. Tell him that you believe in your M and not the D. What you have to be for WH is steadfast and consistent.
I'm glad you approve Pio. That means a lot to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I was very disappointed in myself though. I was helping him pack some stuff and got sick to my stomach. I had to go into the spare bedroom, close the door and cry. He came in a few minutes later to see if I was OK. I didn't let him know I was crying. He just held me for a few minutes, which was nice. It showed he still cares. Once we got back in the living room, into the light though, he looked at me and my makeup had smeared and he asked why I had been crying. I told him I didn't know and I was mad at myself for it because I hadn't cried in 3 weeks.
This has been a tough day emotionally and I'm not sure why.
I did tell him I didn't want a divorce. He's known that since the start of all this. He also knows, whether I told him or not, that I'm not filing for divorce tomorrow.
I want to second what someone said yesterday. There is no one path to victory here. MB is a guideline. You can make plenty of mistakes and still recover from them. When I first started, I felt like I was walking in a mine field. One wrong step and... It doesn't work that way. Your WH is not nearly as "gone" as you BOTH believe. Stay with the program and be patient. Maybe you won't recover your M but this is really your best chance at it.
What I was saying about your H looking down on you. We humans seem to have that inherent need. We need to have someone to look down on to make us feel better about ourselves. For example, we look down on dogs thinking they are inferior to us. The dogs don't care - they discussed it amongst themselves and agreed that, sooner or later, they will have their day.
It is not uncommon in a M for one partner to look at the other one as being inferior because it helps them with their own self-esteem issues. It is easier to do in a M because the offending spouse thinks they have a captive audience, so to speak. Try doint that outside the home and someone is likely to open up a serious can of whupass on you. I am no expert. I just think that his always verbally abusing you over the finances might be indicative of a more fundamental problem in how he viewed your relationship. If you do R your M, it is one you will definitely have to address eventually.
Our first Thanksgiving in Dubai, gemela decided she would roast a turkey for me in honor of her neighbors to the north. Long story very short was that, at some point, she went to turn the oven up and turned it off instead. So we had waited 4 hours with a cold bird in a cold oven and we were very hungry.
I won't go into why but previously I would have yelled and screamed, told her what a bonehead mistake that was, why didn't she check the oven, etc. She told me later she thought I was going to. I stood there minute and just started laughing. Not in a cruel way like I was making fun of her. Just that it was funny. She started laughing too. We eventually did have the Turkey late that night but we had a great afternoon waiting for it.
I had to make a fundamental change in me. It took a long time and I won't go into all the details but I know how I would carry my own personal issues over onto gemela and that was totally unfair. Your WH does not have a problem with the way you handle the finances. It is more basic than that.
Whether you made him dinner or not is not going to have any bearing on the outcome. We all see things from a different perspective. I can see the benefit of dinner (Plan A) and no dinner (180 Plan). Each has its place and its time. Don't sweat the small details. Listen to all the advice, study SAA and do what is right for you. I think all I said was don't make him a potato.
Stph you are getting great advice. Try to read more about the MB guidelines to reinforce the concepts and the practice of them in your interactions with your WS. It's okay to recognize your part on the downfall of the marriage but once you do it move your topic to the two of you and the marriage. He really needs to see changes in you and at the same time see that you are moving on, meaning geting a job or friends or activities. You may have to fake as it was said, that you are moving along but it's really important that he sees you under a new light.
Pio, it's so great that you are coaching the girls. I love soccer and although I don't enjoy seen female soccer as mucha as men soccer, I like to play it a little bit too.
Todd, I've read around here not to lecture the WW, you are in a hard spot and I don't mind the police handcuffs. Maybe you could consider giving your WW the CD's of some Harley books. I have the impression that if Harley had been presented to your wife by other people than you or Ophra, lol, she would embrace the ideas easily.
I think it's great that you are going to have a music group, there are so few of them. Besides Sanz you may also want to make your way trough, silvio Rodriguez, Pablo Milanes, Eduardo Aute, some Joaquin Sabina, Ricardo Arjona, Armando Manzanero.
It is not uncommon in a M for one partner to look at the other one as being inferior because it helps them with their own self-esteem issues
Pio, do you know that probably every single WS on this board has felt inferior to their spouses. Did you not hear me say I thought Rob was perfect and that the OM was flawed like me.
Your anecdote was particularly telling. Gemela was waiting for you to say how stupid she was. It was what she had grown to expect.
You have actually hit the nail right on the head but I think you were talking about a WS making a BS feel inferior which is, in my own personal experience and the experience I would imagine of most WSs on this board, the wrong way round.
And Stef, cooking him dinner is a good Plan A move.
Thank you, I was advised NOT to feed him by certain members on this post. I, too, thought it was a good move.
Under normal circumstances, I would agree. But after he screamed at you and demeaned you today, I thought that cooking him dinner was the last thing you should do. I still believe that. Moreover, he told you you wasn't going to eat. As it turned out, my advice was vindiczted since he didn't eat.
I didn't believe that he felt inferior to me, but it makes sense. But, at the same time, I think I feel inferior to him too. Can that happen in a M? If so, how do both people get past it and move on together?
I just feel like, as good as the advice is that I get here, whatever I do is going to backfire on me and get me divorced. That's why I'm so afraid to do things, yet I want to do everything that I can to make him understand and make him want to come home.
That usually means for me that I want to go up to him, grab him by the shoulders and shake him until the fog clears and he realizes its me he wants. Too bad it doesn't work that way.
And you have to understand, we verbally abused each other. It was not all him and it was not all me. That's a major issue we need to work out in order to move forward. I'm probably jumping the gun again. He'll probably be all fogged up in the morning again and everything I said tonight will be gone. Have I mentioned I'm a very impatient person?? Just throwing that out there... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
THe EA built up over a 12 month period before they declared their "love" for each other and ramped it up to the next level. They were "going out" for around 3 months before I discovered the affair.
You have actually hit the nail right on the head but I think you were talking about a WS making a BS feel inferior which is, in my own personal experience and the experience I would imagine of most WSs on this board, the wrong way round.
I am not referring to BS or WS. I am referring to what I believe is a critical problem in many marriages. You are right. Gemela had come to expect that from me. I could explain why I chose to change my behavior. I recognized that the problem was me - not gemela. Now the only time I ever get mad at anyone is when they deliberatly and intentionally try to hurt me or my family. Accidents happen. Gemela did not intentionally NOT cook the turkey. Why get mad? She was just as hungry as I was.
I am not referring to BS or WS. I am referring to what I believe is a critical problem in many marriages. You are right. Gemela had come to expect that from me. I could explain why I chose to change my behavior. I recognized that the problem was me - not gemela. Now the only time I ever get mad at anyone is when they deliberatly and intentionally try to hurt me or my family. Accidents happen. Gemela did not intentionally NOT cook the turkey. Why get mad? She was just as hungry as I was.
I totally agree Pio - this is a very common issue.
And Stef, cooking him dinner is a good Plan A move.
Thank you, I was advised NOT to feed him by certain members on this post. I, too, thought it was a good move.
Under normal circumstances, I would agree. But after he screamed at you and demeaned you today, I thought that cooking him dinner was the last thing you should do. I still believe that. Moreover, he told you you wasn't going to eat. As it turned out, my advice was vindiczted since he didn't eat.
Once again, I was kidding...I understand your advice and why I shouldn't have cooked for him, but I felt it was the right thing to do for me. And he did eat with me. And once again, I'm extremely hurt by all of this...NOT MAD. If I were angry, it would be a totally different story. I wouldn't care at all and honestly, that's what the "old" (calm down, I'm not talking about my age!) Stph20 would have done. Before, I would have sulked on the couch, let him do his thing and let him leave. I'm being the bigger person and probably making him feel foolish by not fighting back anymore.
I didn't believe that he felt inferior to me, but it makes sense. But, at the same time, I think I feel inferior to him too. Can that happen in a M? If so, how do both people get past it and move on together?
Absolutely it can happen. It happens because you don't communicate, you LB and DJ and you don't protect each other's feelings.
You said "I think I feel". Feelings are feelings whether they are valid or not. I always felt inferior to gemela. Always.
I just feel like, as good as the advice is that I get here, whatever I do is going to backfire on me and get me divorced. That's why I'm so afraid to do things, yet I want to do everything that I can to make him understand and make him want to come home.
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. This is hard to get past but you will. Once you do, you will feel like Superman. Don't feel this way. I don't know what is in your future but I do know that whether or not you decide to make him a potato will not affect the outcome. Look at the bigger picture. Don't examine Plan A with a microscope. There is no need.
Todd, I've read around here not to lecture the WW, you are in a hard spot and I don't mind the police handcuffs.
Honestly, I kinda of liked the police handcuffs. Never knew that about myself before.
Quote
Maybe you could consider giving your WW the CD's of some Harley books. I have the impression that if Harley had been presented to your wife by other people than you or Ophra, lol, she would embrace the ideas easily.
I guess I didn't make myself clear. My WW thinks that all therapists are crazy and all they want is your money. How do you deal with that?
Quote
I think it's great that you are going to have a music group, there are so few of them. Besides Sanz you may also want to make your way trough, silvio Rodriguez, Pablo Milanes, Eduardo Aute, some Joaquin Sabina, Ricardo Arjona, Armando Manzanero.
I guess I should say that the type of music we will play is mainstream American rock. Now, my middle son plays excellent guitar and plays a Bosa Nova style. He loves Brazilian jazz.
Under normal circumstances, I would agree. But after he screamed at you and demeaned you today, I thought that cooking him dinner was the last thing you should do. I still believe that. Moreover, he told you you wasn't going to eat. As it turned out, my advice was vindiczted since he didn't eat.
Stph, Todd is pointing out a very important aspect about changing the dynamics in a relationship, specially where abuse, verbal or physical, takes place.
You can decide not to react to your husband words, not to let his words put you down, internally but you have to show him that behaving abusively has consecuences. It's not a matter of punishment. If he doesn't see you respect yourself and your boundaries he'll stay longer in his fogged world because he'll think you'll take whatever he throws your way.
This Plan A is a hard process but it's not to make him do anything in a way. You have to honestly work on yourself, honestly adress the problems on your side and honestly get ready to the possible outcome of a divorce. At the same time, hoping that he would like to go back to the marriage.
Pio asked you what were you afraid of a while back. Think that the worst has already happened, almost. Don't walk with fear around him.
OK, Plan A is much harder than I thought. But here's an example of backfiring. He yells at me, I tell him my boundaries (however I do that, I don't know), he gets defensive, yells some more, I get defensive and yell back. This is the way our relationship has gone on for 2 years. Obviously it's something I want to work on, so we don't do it anymore, but it's been there and I can't take it back. So, we start arguing about whatever, and he just proved his point of why he wants a divorce.
So, I can choose to not argue back with him when he's mad, which is what I did today, OR, I can argue with him, like I used to, and he sees no changes in me, and no reason to want to come home.
So, I can choose to not argue back with him when he's mad, which is what I did today, OR, I can argue with him, like I used to, and he sees no changes in me, and no reason to want to come home.
Who can argue my point?
Is this a rhetorical question? No, you don't argue back. Remember "I will bend like the willow".
Plan A is not hard at all. The problem is that you still don't completely grasp what Plan A is. No problem - it took me about 7 months to figure that one out. The only narrow path I know of is the one that leads to salvation. The road to marital recovery is an 8 lane highway. Plenty of room for error. (Oh, the other narrow path I am familiar with is the one going from our house to the bathroom back in Arkansas). In fact, we were pretty well-off by local standards. Our house had one and a half paths.
OK, Plan A is much harder than I thought. But here's an example of backfiring. He yells at me, I tell him my boundaries (however I do that, I don't know), he gets defensive, yells some more, I get defensive and yell back. This is the way our relationship has gone on for 2 years. Obviously it's something I want to work on, so we don't do it anymore, but it's been there and I can't take it back. So, we start arguing about whatever, and he just proved his point of why he wants a divorce.
So, I can choose to not argue back with him when he's mad, which is what I did today, OR, I can argue with him, like I used to, and he sees no changes in me, and no reason to want to come home.
Who can argue my point?
Your WH calling you stupid is verbal abuse. You should not accept any form of abuse. Hang up on his sorry a$$ when he abuses you. You cannot subject yourself to his childish behavior. I am no MB scholar, I can assure you. But I do believe that people should treat each other with respect.
Don't get defensive. For me the PA is not the worst violation either. I know what you mean.
Actually I was pretty lucky - she had 2 extended makeout sessions with him the week (one on the morning) of D-Day so it was only a matter of days before they crossed that line.
Here I'm telling you the concepts as I've learned them here in MB from a poster called LovingAnyway. You have to own your own emotions and reactions and let him own his own. You don't make him do anything and he doesn't make you do anything.
You have to change your way to discuss topics from arguing to negotiation. You have to stop giving you permision to let your anger go. Stop it. Zero, nada. He doesn't make you angry, you let your anger control you.
You don't have to stop discussing problems but you have to stop when he or you start to loose control. It can e doing very politely and amiable and retake the topic when the two of you can talk calm.
You are still missing the point. Plan A is not about trying to become what you think he wants. Plan A is about you and only you. The word "him" should never appear. You recognize the things you have done wrong. You recognize the things you don't like about yourself. You work on improving you and being the best "you" that you can be. Now I will tell you that it is possible that this "you" MAY be someone that BH doesn't like. Big deal. You will LOVE yourself. OTOH, there is a very good possibility that WH will learn to love that "you" too.
Forget about "him". He has nothing to do with Plan A.
Then that's what I'm not getting: I thought Plan A was getting back to me, so he could see changes, making him want to stay married. If he doesn't see the changes, what's making him stay? So, essentially it is about him, or at least about the marriage. There would be no need for Plan A if he wanted to stay married, right?
How is what I said that much different than Pep's link? I didn't quote it word for word, but I think I got the overall jist of it. It's basically the same thing. How is it different?
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
I did everything in the stick part of it, and the only carrot thing I haven't done *yet* is his EN's (besides SF) because I don't officially know what they are yet (besides SF). But didn't I say those carrot things in some form?
What's a carrot and a stick? And how do they pertain to this?
So Stef - What are your WS's EN's? Asked you that before. How can you make home a warm and inviting place (without dropping your panties for him)? WHat has worked in your marriage? What areas are you improving yourself in?
"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands."
I did that just today when he was yelling at me. It would have been so easy to yell back and blame him just as much as I was being blamed, but I stayed calm and explained to him the situation, took responsibility for my part, and told him I understood why he was upset, but that I was doing the best I can.
The carrot if you like is he positive things you can do to attract him back into the marriage. You do have to identify his EN's and meet them as best you can. You need to give him hope of a better future if he reconciles.
You also should seriously consider improving yourself for YOU as Pio says and divorcing him and moving on. You have no children and he clearly attempts to solve marital problems by screwing OW. You deserve better Stef.
"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands."
I did that just today when he was yelling at me. It would have been so easy to yell back and blame him just as much as I was being blamed, but I stayed calm and explained to him the situation, took responsibility for my part, and told him I understood why he was upset, but that I was doing the best I can.
I'm improving myself in all areas. I'm becoming more independent, which was a pretty big complaint of his. I'm finding things that I like to do and doing them. I'm focusing on my job and not so worried about getting home to him every night (only because I know he's not going to be there!).
I'm making home a warm and inviting place, by inviting him over, making sure the house is clean when he comes, and not nagging and b****ing as soon as he hits the door. I talk to him about his day/week, whatever. We have good conversations now and I'm more understanding about the things he says.
This is all a little harder to do though, since he moved out.
I'm still new at all this, I just don't want to mess anything up, so I'm walking on eggshells.
I don't want to divorce him. I still love him and I have hope for him and our marriage. I do believe, that with time, work and commitment, we can make this work. I just want him to want it. That's my ultimate goal.
I know I did nothing to deserve this, but isn't the purpose of this site to save marriages? I'm just not ready to give up quite yet.
If I did, I am sorry because it wasn't my intention. I'll go back and look at what I wrote. The only obvious thing that comes to mind is the mud wrestling. Surely she didn't think I was serious? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
But you know me. It wouldn't be the first time I have upset KiwiJ.
The last thing I remember was agreeing with her completely on what she had posted.
"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands."
I did that just today when he was yelling at me. It would have been so easy to yell back and blame him just as much as I was being blamed, but I stayed calm and explained to him the situation, took responsibility for my part, and told him I understood why he was upset, but that I was doing the best I can.
Quote
when he was yelling at me
Stph, you can't talk with someone that's yelling. Without lecturing him just tell him you have to go or other excuse.
Quote
took responsibility for my part, and told him I understood why he was upset
It's okay that you admit your mistakes and don't ustify yourself but at some point to have to stop doing it or tell him calmly that you mistakes don't justify the affair.
As for becoming independent, you need to learn that you get validation from within, not from WH or anyone else. If you seek validation from your WH, by definition, you are in a co-dependent relationship. Women make this mistake more often than men, that is "losing themselves in their husband". You have to recognize and keep your own identity.
Marriage does not mean a total meshing of hearts, souls and minds. Each spouse keeps their own identity. I am not explaining this very well. Does this make any sense to you?
What you are doing is all good. What you don't quite fully understand is WHY you are doing it. That's all we are trying to explain. We are not asking you to change what you are doing. We are just trying to help you understand what Plan A is all about. Saving the M is often an important side effect of Plan A but making an even better M is the goal. We don't want you to trick your H back into your home and then the two of you decide how to get along. We want you to be that wife that your WH cannot live without and will love forever. That is the purpose of Plan A. But even if your H is not there to see it, Plan A becomes no less important. Yes it is easier to try to save your M if WH is in the house. Since he is not, it is super critical that he get the maximum benefit of what little exposure he does have with you.
Don't get mad. I had this same mental block that you are facing. It is hard to grasp at first but, once you do, Plan A will become extremely simple. In the meantime, keep doing what you are doing. It is all great stuff.
I don't mind. I can be frustrating, I know. Remember, I was basically kicked out of my own thread by MelodyLane because I frustrated her!!
I didn't really see that. There does come a point with some BS's that they can't be given any more info. Often it takes being explained to in different ways to understand it. There is no way you can frustrate us. There are too many of us. We will wear you down eventually. Meantime, keep going and keep posting.
Sorry but I don't buy this. Men are equally as capable and, in fact, may be even more prone.
Take a man and a woman. Get them divorced. The woman will survive and thrive. The man will wear the same socks for months and live on PBJ sandwiches and beer.
In no way am I saying that womens are lacking in this regard. I think it is due to the differences in the way the genders are raised. There is clearly less differences today because, rightfully, womens are being raised to believe that they can do anything they want, which I fully agree with.
Quote
Take a man and a woman. Get them divorced. The woman will survive and thrive. The man will wear the same socks for months and live on PBJ sandwiches and beer.
And explode potatoes and start a fire. BTW, what is wrong with wearing the same socks for months? Huh?
Okay, the BigK has piled on so I feel the need to vindicate myself. In no way do I think that women are inferior to men. If anything, I believe that women are the stronger and better gender. Have you ever read the preface to Puzo's "Fools Die"?
I was raised by the smartest and strongest woman this world has ever known. My Mother was a genius and always believed that she could do anything she wanted to and set her mind to do. As a role model, she was incredible. She started and completed a two year course in computer programming at age 63, just because she thought it would be "fun". I never grew up with any beliefs that women were inferior in any way. My mom had shown me quite the opposite.
I hate feeling the need to do this but I do not want Pio's and BigK's comments to hang out there unanswered. When I was in HS, I wrote a paper on the Soviet Union. One interesting tidbit of information I dug up is that, at that time, 80% of all Soviet physicians were women. Given the Communistic approach to labor apportioning, it was clear to me that the Soviets believed that women made better doctors. I believe this is generally true. During this time, I had a younger female cousin who so badly wanted to be a physician. Both her parents told her she shouldn't be, that she should be a nurse, because "that is what women do". It made me livid at seventeen years old. I told her about the paper I wrote and she was motivated. Sadly, her parents were paying for college and she majored in physical therapy. It was a huge loss but at least today she is happy, if not fulfilled.
Sorry Pio I didn't mean to offend. I am acutely aware of how fortunate I am compared to the horror stories I see many of us enduring. I know how lucky I was. I guess to me I feel less able to offer opinions and advice because I haven't experienced the full horror if you will. I am careful to only offer advice in areas where I have personal experience.
In truth, I wish Jen didn't ask the question but I have no intention of being anything but truthful.
It just occurred to me that there must be potato goo all over the insides of the microwave. I opened the door and what a mess! I tried scrubbing it off to no avail. I thought about a solution for a long time. I decided to take a bowl and put half a bottle of Dawn in the bowl and run the wave on high for an hour. I reasoned that the vapors from the Dawn would clean or at least, loosen the crud. Well, about half-way through the cycle, smoke starting appearing. Next thing I know, there goes the smoke alarm again. In a few minutes, I hear sirens. Wait, da*n, there is a knock at the door. See y'all later. Have a feeling I am going to jail for a second offense.
2much is not a night owl. Neither is nams for the most part. Or Luna. Larousse will be here before long. Apparently, she spends an inordinate amount of time putting money into gumball machines these days. B comes and goes. And Jen, I don't know.
Okay so now that you have consented to give advice on it, why on earth is it so important to position a 20,000 ton piece of equipment with that much accuracy? I thought you guys just set off big explosions and then went about picking up the debris. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Ah. But exactly where do you want it to go Bang. And how do you set that out? You can use a Surveyor of course but where's the fun in that.
Also, if a Excavator for instance, is uncovering an ore body, it helps them to know how far they need to dig and where. Again, they could use a Surveyor, but really, anything that minimises the Light Vehicle/People/Heavy Vehicle interactions in a mining environment is superior, not to say cost effective.
Or say, perhaps, you want to know the productivity of a Dozer - press a button and you have it.
We are talking high precision GPS here - 2" accuracy BTW.
5 minimum to initialise more is better. In a mining environment, the Russian Glonass ones help too. Pesky highwalls tend to obstruct a lot of satellites.
Well to be honest, for me the only real application for GPS (non-military of course) is on the golf course. I am thinking of fitting out my golf cart with GPS. I only need about 3 foot accuracy.
There is no universally accepted derivation for the word 'golf.' One of the most common misconceptions is that the word GOLF is an acronym for Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden. This at least is definitely not true.
The first documented mention of the word 'golf' is in Edinburgh on 6th March 1457, when King James II banned ‘ye golf’, in an attempt to encourage archery practice, which was being neglected.
Before the creation of dictionaries, there was no standardised spelling of any given word. People wrote words phonetically. Goff, gowf, golf, goif, gof, gowfe, gouff and golve have all been found in documents in Scotland.
Most people believe the old word 'gowfe' was the most common term, pronounced 'gouf'.
A minority of people hold the view that golf is a purely Scottish term, derived from Scots words 'golf', 'golfand' and 'golfing', which mean 'to strike' as in 'to cuff'.
It seems most likely that the terms golf, chole and kolf, which were the names for a variety of medieval stick and ball games in Britain and in continental Europe, are all derived from a common word of a pre-modern European language, following Grimm's grammatical law, which details the clear phonetic similarities of these words.
Golf (and chole and kolf) are all presumed to have originally meant 'club'. Golf has also been associated with the German word for club 'kolbe', (Der Kolben). It is also probably related to the Dutch word and game 'kolven'.
In 1636, David Wedderburn used the word Baculus, which is Latin for 'club' as the title for his 'Vocabula', listing Latin terms for golf, which supports this derivation. The Vocabula contains the first clear mention of the golf hole, the essential element of modern links golf and is thus the first unambiguous proof of the existence of the game in Scotland.
Many carts these days are fitted with them, but then again, you play in the sand so.....
If you play in the sand, it is highly recommended to get a cart with a wench. The stronger the wench, the better. That way, if you get stuck, she can get out and push.
[I know I am going to pay for that] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I guess the other option is to hit the ball in the fairway but where's the fun in that?
Besides, it shortens the length of your game, lowers your score and generally just zaps the fun right out of you. Plus, you still have all your balls when you finish. Who wants that?
The way I see it - until you shoot an "18", there is always room for improvement.
From an economic perspective, if you pay $85 for a green fee and score a "72", that comes out to $1.18 per stroke. If you shoot a "116", that comes out to $0.73 per stroke. So it is economically beneficial to score higher. That's why those pros, who score so low, have to be paid so much. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford to play golf.
The womens leave & the talk turns to heavy equipment & golf...or is it the other way around. The talk turns to heavy equipment & golf then the womens leave?
Steph, you people! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Coming from a place of fear is many things; unattractive, creats imbalance, skews your perspective, doesn't allow you to create the strength you need. I know this from the early days of my D situation.
Hand cuffs hurt. You need to use a soft cloth for tying up.
bigK, you & I don't disagree about the wisdom of Harley's plan. But, I do believe motivation to try to recover a marriage is very important.
For me, when ex first announced he wanted to D I was motivated primarily by fear. Fear I wouldn't be able to provide for my boys, fear of having their male role model removed from a significant part of their lives, & fear of doing this all on my own. I don't think that allowed me to think clearly or to see the complete picture, not the future but what was going on at that moment.
Not that it mattered in the end but one needs to be motivated by desire to be with their spouse because they are the partner one wants to be with. IMO.
Just a quick posting this morning. Must do errands & get some actual work done for my future. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Yeah, not a nightowl unless it involves the alternative to handcuffs...in my dreams. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I have been thinking about the advice you have been getting and, as I read it, I think everyone is pretty much saying the same thing. I think you get in a hurry to read it and don't always take time to digest it. So slow down just a little. Somebody said (sorry I don't remember who because there were about 300 posts in the last 24 hours) that you should work on Plan A and prepare for divorce. In your position that sounds a bit shocking but it is the truth of Plan A in a nutshell. You are doing most of the things of a decent Plan A without understanding why. That's okay. I did it for 5 or 6 months. You have stopped the bleeding. As a BS soon after Dday, that is about the best you can do and you have done far better than me.
What was being said to you about preparing for D? I think you are finally beginning to understand that you cannot MAKE your H fall in love with you. That didn't happen when you first met and it will never happen. He fell in love with you because he chose to. He can fall in love with you again if he chooses to. But all that is beyond your control. All you can control is you.
Shift gears: You accept that you did some things wrong in your M. Okay. You even think you know what some of those things were. Better. Obviously if you were to get divorced, those are not things you would want to repeat in a new relationship. So you fix them. Think of Plan A as trying to make yourself the most desirable, attractive, woman on the planet – for any man. You want to be the best YOU can be. To be quite honest, it is possible that you might end up being something that your WH doesn't want but you will be much better for yourself. And do you know what? You could even find that you don't want your H. Don't panic. I am only saying it is a remote possibility. So your Plan A is a conscious decision to work on yourself each and every day. Learn about relationship building. Learn about EN's. Learn all about the rules of protection because they will pay off in spades with any relationship you have in the future. Learn to respect whoever you are with. Learn to avoid LB's and DJ's. Not just for your WH but for anyone.
I used to work with an engineer who hated his manager. That is not uncommon. Most engineers seem to hate their managers and are convinced that the managers are useless wastes of space. They even teach this in engineering school at major universities. As it turned out, I knew the manager and, while he wasn't the brightest color in the rainbow, he was an effective manager. I used to listen to this engineer complain about his manager on a daily basis and did this for months. All it did was make me not like the engineer. So one day I called him into my office and told him that. I told him that it was a shame that he was such a talented engineer but nobody wanted to work with him because he was such a whiner. At the end of the day, nothing he could say or do would get this manager removed from his position. If he would change his attitude and be positive rather than be negative all the time, he would really gain peoples' respect. I was a bit harsh on him in my talk but I'm not the most polished person. I was just me. I really expected him to get mad. Instead he thanked me. He told me that nobody had ever sat him down and taken a personal interest and offered encouragement. Well he changed on a dime. Poor guy – he is now in senior management and he has to put up with a bunch of whiney engineers.
Okay now back to you. We can all be better people. We can all learn from our mistakes. Work on you. Make yourself better. If WH notices, fantastic. If he does not notice, you may end up divorced but you will still be better for it. Divorce is also not necessarily the end. There is little chance that your WH's relationship with OW will last very long.
I used to worry about whether gemela saw the changes I was implementing. At first I don't think she did. Then after a while, she noticed but she didn't trust the changes. She wanted to believe I would go back to my old self at the first opportunity. Why not? That helped justify the A in her mind. Somewhere along the way I stopped caring what gemela thought about me. That is where I am today. I am happier, healthier, have a wonderful relationship with my daughters and gemela can get stuffed for all I care. Okay yes I want her to come back to our family. But, if she does come back, she will be coming back to a new and improved me. That's not to say it is my way or the highway. I am not saying she has to come back on my terms (other than NC, honesty, etc.) – I am just saying she is going to come back to a new me. It may be that she decides she doesn't really like that new me. It could happen. If so, we divorce and I go on being a better me. Marriage is about compromise as well. I still may be willing to make additional changes if they are important to the relationship. But I bet I don't have to make too many major ones. If she comes back then I need to implement the rules of protection. I am going to ask BigK's help every step of the way.
I am expecting that we will have a new time where we will be getting to know each other all over again. Either one of us may decide that we don't care for the other. I don't know. I am not going to try to change to be what she wants. I am going to try to be what I want. I hope those two things coincide. Plan A is all about the BS. At first we think the Plan A is for the WS. Well in a way it is because the Plan A is for the marriage. But you have zero control over WH. He makes his own choices. If you do a great Plan A, there is a much higher likelihood that WH will come back to the M. But that is the result of Plan A rather than the objective. What I mean by that is that, with an objective, you stop once you achieve it.
Well I have been interrupted a dozen times while writing this so I am going to stop here because now I am lost.
I know what I wanted to add:
During all these past few months, my attitude toward or understanding of Plan A has changed considerably. But the actions of my Plan A have changed very little. So it is not super critical that you entirely grasp Plan A to make an effective one.
The womens leave & the talk turns to heavy equipment & golf...or is it the other way around. The talk turns to heavy equipment & golf then the womens leave?
Well, when you leave little boys to their own devices....
I was almost out the door when this thought popped into my head.
Todd, you say you've decided to not buy the business or return to work. I have the perfect idea for you to keep yourself occupied. Become a manager of artists. We (many of us) desperately need someone to help do the stuff we are so bad at. Promoting ourselves & our work, finding the right places to sell, finding the audience who will appreciate & want to buy our work.
You can call it a hobby/helping out the poor & it can be done largely from your computer. You're the contact guy, the artrist is the one who goes out to meet the client once the contact has been made. This isn't done for free, of course, you get commission or an up front (small fee) plus commission.
Most artist have web sites with examples of their work so it's easy enough to have the work shown in an initial way.
Fabulous! What do you think?
Now I am out the door.
P.S. This thread had taken over too much of my brain space.
Great news and congratulations. Can I ask you one favor? Please delete that stuff about how to get rid of piojitos. I'm afraid gemela might read your post and try that on me.
Your name is a misnomer, Pio. You are far too good to be a blood sucking bug....
I was kidding when I said I wasn't going to buy the company. My hesitation is that if I get involved, it means I will need to travel to aggressively expand the marketing and penetration. I don't look forward to that part of it. We'll see. I now have forgotten what I said I would do instead, but I am certain it was a joke, but who knows. Depends on where my head was then. Plus that was so long ago, what yesterday, day before?
As for representing artists, I am not sure I know enough to do so. And I have attempted this before. I wrote to Monet (or was it Manet?), Rembrandt, Picasso, Wyeth and Michelangelo and none had the decency to respond. Artists are temperamental I suppose. But seriously, it is a good idea. I will talk to DS1 about the idea. He is a photographer and knows many artists so he should have an interesting take. Thank you.
As for representing artists, I am not sure I know enough to do so. And I have attempted this before.
Now don't shut this down too quickly. I already have you pictured driving a low rider Cadillac El Dorado, tiger with head bouncing in the back window sitting on purple shag carpet. You arrive. You step out in your open satin shirt, covered in bling, draped in a huge crushed velvet overcoat and wide brimmed hat, dark sunglasses.
I think this might actually work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
As for representing artists, I am not sure I know enough to do so. And I have attempted this before.
Now don't shut this down too quickly. I already have you pictured driving a low rider Cadillac El Dorado, tiger with head bouncing in the back window sitting on purple shag carpet. You arrive. You step out in your open satin shirt, covered in bling, draped in a huge crushed velvet overcoat and wide brimmed hat, dark sunglasses.
So I would be pimping artists. Is that what you are saying?
As long as I'm doing a decent Plan A for now, I'm OK with that, it can only get better. I just don't want to mess it up. The only problem is, that while WH may see the changes, he doesn't trust the changes, much like gemela. He thinks it's a ploy to save the marriage and as soon as he comes home, it'll go back to the way things were. I want him to trust that the changes I'm making are permanant, not just a ploy. But, I can't worry about that yet...
I think what I meant about "making" him fall in love with me, is that I want to do everything I did 7 years ago, that made him fall in love me then. I know I can't control him or his feelings.
Something you said did finally click though: I was doing Plan A for myself and for WH. Now I understand that I'm doing it for myself and my marriage. And I think I might understand the difference. I know that whatever changes I make in myself are going to be permanant, whether it saves my current marriage or not. And I know that it will make me a better wife, if not to WH than to someone else (that thought hurts!!).
And believe it or not, I have thought about the possibility of not wanting my H back. It really scares me that I'm as OK as I am with him being gone and there's got to be something to me not being mad at him. I just don't know what to make of it.
But something struck me last night as I was talking to him and I told him this. I have realized that I'm OK here by myself and that's made me realize that I don't need him here, I don't need him in my life. I want him here, I want him in my life, as my H. And I think that knowledge will also make me a better wife. It's already made me a more secure person. Who knew that as soon as my H left me, I would gain confidence??? I must be totally screwed up in the head!
I want to do everything I did 7 years ago, that made him fall in love me then
Okay but he's not the same person he was 7 years ago. Maybe he wants different things now?
Quote
And believe it or not, I have thought about the possibility of not wanting my H back.
We all have those feelings. What he did to you is horrible. It is natural to have those feelings.
Quote
I don't need him in my life. I want him here, I want him in my life, as my H
Almost. I am glad that you have been able to see that difference. Just remember, you want H back in your life. You want WH to go to he!!. H and WH are not the same person. Try not to confuse them They look alot alike on the surface.
Quote
And I think that knowledge will also make me a better wife. It's already made me a more secure person. Who knew that as soon as my H left me, I would gain confidence??? I must be totally screwed up in the head!
Actually I would go the other way. I would say you are thinking clearly for the first time in seven years. With that attitude, you will make a much more attractive wife.
As soon as I think I get it, you go and confuse me again!
How could he want different things now than he did then? It hasn't been that long ago. All he wants is a wife who doesn't b**** at him all the time and all the financial stress to go away. If he had those things, he would be a happy man. And I do know this because we talked about it before all this happened.
I'm starting to see that WH and H are 2 different people. Good twin and evil twin. I want the good twin back.
Quote
Actually I would go the other way. I would say you are thinking clearly for the first time in seven years. With that attitude, you will make a much more attractive wife.
You just don't know me well enough. I'm not capable.
Quote
How could he want different things now than he did then? It hasn't been that long ago. All he wants is a wife who doesn't b**** at him all the time and all the financial stress to go away. If he had those things, he would be a happy man.
Because we change and grow as we get older. We want different things. What did he want when he was a teenager? SF. What does he want now? No nagging. That's different all by itself. I'm sure other things have changed too.
Look, if the only thing he needs out of life is no nagging and no financial stress, is that what you really want as a H? That doesn't sound very interesting.
DD1 was really amazing in soccer tonight. I have never seen her play so well. She is improving so much. And the other coach forgot oranges for his team. Fortunately I had a bunch.
DD2's game was strange. When DD1 played in that division, there was a little bit of structure. Now it is chaos. DD2 had four goals scored on her but by a girl in 2nd grade who also shot from inside the line every time. I was standing in goal with DD2 to teach her how to move with the ball. I was afraid to let her go out to stop a ball because there were 25 girls all trying to kick it and nearly on the goal line. She came very close to getting kicked in the face twice. Well, her coach is not too happy with me. I ripped him a new you know what and told him I was reporting him on Saturday. It was way too dangerous for the girls to play that way and it was insane to let 2nd graders play with 4-6 year old girls. They let the older girl play on the team because her father wanted her to be on the same team as her younger sister so he wouldn't have to go to soccer three nights a week. This isn't over. I'm shutting this down first thing Saturday morning. I'm pissed. DD2 started to cry after the fourth goal and said it wasn't fair. To her credit, she stopped 4 legitimate shots on goal after that but that is when she almost got kicked. If she had gotten kicked, she would never play soccer again. I wouldn't blame her.
Something just dawned on me. It has been right under our noses and was so obvious it now confounds me that it took so long to realize it.
Luna and larousse are the same person.
Evidence you say?
For beginners, both of their screen names start with the letter L. I mean, come on, how obvious can you be? I could stop right now but will keep going. One "lives" in a country north of the US; the other "lives" in a country south of the US. Do you see the obviously symmetry at work here? It is like a spider doing pushups on a mirror.
And have you noticed that they never post at the same time? Look, I pride myself on being scientific and this is the best proof you can get in the real world.
More proof you say. They both speak French. Both are French sympathizers at a minimum. Luna lived in Frahnsay; larousse wants to live in Frahnsay. Do you see how obvious it was all this time? And I am the one who figured it out. I am so proud of myself.
I thought I may have read between the lines that you felt it was your fault. I believe that some of the MB prinicples can unwittingly lead a BS to believe that he/she is the fault of the affair. Not that my WW is a good barometer of anything, but she picked up SAA one day, read a few pages and said to me: "See, it is your fault I had the affair". Yes I know what she was doing but I have heard BS come to the same conclusion.
In any event, I am glad that you don't think WH's A was your fault.
This is the part of MB that I have the problem with. I am a minority of one so keep that in mind. Your WH made you unhappy but yet you didn't cheat. What is the difference? The difference is in how each of you process and act upon unhappiness. Some spouses feel a sense of entitlement. Others feel their affair is justified because they are unhappy. As my glorious WW put it: if you don't take care of your crops, someone else will. Nevermind I was flat on my back dying and in and out of the hospital. Even to this day, she feels suprememely confident that she was justified. Or so she says.
Don't misunderstand me. Given that you are working on Plan A and hence the first step to R, of course, any problems that existed in the marriage should be addressed and remedied.
Dr. Frank Pittman explains the concept of "you can make your spouse unhappy, but you can't make them unfaithful" extremely well. I would typically post a portion of an article he wrote, but it irritates Pio, so I will refrain this time.
Anyway, it sounds to me like you have a very healthy and aware approach. The fact that you feel stronger and more confident since WH moved out is strongly encouraging. I think that says a lot and the bulk of it you may not fully understand unless/until it is covered in IC/MC. In any event, you are doing great. Especially given your youth, you are doing fantastic and should really be proud of yourself.
Todd, not only you are a gentleman, romantic and business wise, you are a rock star in the making, an acomplished golf player and now an internet PI. Wow, I'm spechless. Now you should really stay away of microweaves of any kind, and potatos. On a side note I hope you are already liberated from the chain to the bed. That gave me nightmares.
In fact to make the apparent differences more obvios Luna speaks Italian and Io non lo so niente. She has a name that could be Italian but also Portuguise or Gallego, from Galicia, the North of Spain. She drinks Gran Manier* and I tequila or Vodka, not because of taste as much as because of calories, like 200 less with tequila and vodka.
Dr. Frank Pittman explains the concept of "you can make your spouse unhappy, but you can't make them unfaithful" extremely well. I would typically post a portion of an article he wrote, but it irritates Pio, so I will refrain this time.
For the 1000th time, I am not disagreeing with any of that. For the record, I think it is a useless mental exercise at this point in the game and, once again, is your single greatest obstacle to wanting to R with your WW.
When I saw your last few posts, I could tell where this was going. I even started to post about before but deleted what I wrote.
The only problem I have with continuing to dwell on this Pittman quote is that it gets in the way of forgiveness. It says "well I didn't do it and I wasn't entirely happy".
Sorry ToddAC but you brought it up. The WS justifies the A due to problems in the M. The BS justifies non-forgiveness because they DIDN'T have an affair.
Dr. Harley simply says there is plenty of time to deal with that later - right now, let's just get the couple back together and then work out the details. I Don't see any conflict in the good doctors.
One does an autoposy of the A. The other saves the M. They are two people describing different facets of the same problem.
I mischaracterized it as chains. It was actually two sets of handcuffs. If you watched Seinfeld, picture George handcuffed spread eagle to the bed. I am still here in fact. Very wet I am afraid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> It is very difficult to type like this so bear with me.
Do I understand that you deny being the one and same as Luna? It seems to me that the proof is so overwhelming as to be comical. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Well I am off to bed. DD1 made me commit to a marathon UNO game today. Promise you won't quote Pittman any more today so I can sleep soundly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have read too many BS posts accepting blame for the affair. That is wrong and it is much more than a mental exercise to those folks.
As for forgiveness, I am not very good at it, especially for such a fundamental wrong. Can I forgive one day? Yes. Will I forgive? Depends on WW. And I have read countless posts in which forgiveness is described as being for the benefit of Mr. Kite, no wait a minute, that's not right; being for the benefit of the BS. Bullhockey. That is mental gymnastics with folks trying to fool themselves. And for those concerned that I will become a bitter old man if I don't forgive, don't be concerned. I am very good at it.
Todd would you ask for the song Mujeres Divinas? Let me know if you do it.
Pio, your account of your DD" efforts are so 'cute'. Both DD's are so pretty. You'll really have a busier life when they hit their teens.
Stph, I know you have your plate full but soon someone would have to tell you... After a while of Plan A, it's said it's 3 months for a WS and 6 months for a WW, although I can't confirm that, you have to do your Plan A and don't pursue your WS, not only that, at some point you have to let him pursue you. He has to want to be with you and he has to ask you to let him come back to the house, sans OW of course. It seems a matter of power but deep down is more a matter of re-starting the marriage under the right foot.
Todd, from the mouth of Dr. Harley, 'Affairs are the deepest wound a BS can get, there is not justification for an affair but sometimes there are reasons for one'. Harley is very clear in stating that he doesn't recomend reconcilation per se but that he discovered that many times the couples themselves asked him for a reconcilation plan. Knowing that forgiveness is so hard to achieve he says that he doesn't advocates that in his plan specifically. Instead he tells the WW or WS to compensate the BS. A reparation of the damage that in the long run would make the marriage better than it was before.
Todd would you ask for the song Mujeres Divinas? Let me know if you do it.
Divine Women. I like it. You bet larousse. BTW, I do think women are divine. I bet it is a great song.
Trust me, when Pio's DD's hit their teens, Pio will clean his shotgun constantly. All I can say is that God knew what he was doing when he gave me all sons. I remember when I used to pick up Father's daughters for dates. And I was one of the good guys. Yeah, right! I had one father chase me down the street because I brought his daughter home late. At 4:00 am. And drunk as a skunk. But hey, I was only 12. I didn't know better.
Todd, from the mouth of Dr. Harley, 'Affairs are the deepest wound a BS can get, there is not justification for an affair but sometimes there are reasons for one'. Harley is very clear in stating that he doesn't recomend reconcilation per se but that he discovered that many times the couples themselves asked him for a reconcilation plan. Knowing that forgiveness is so hard to achieve he says that he doesn't advocates that in his plan specifically. Instead he tells the WW or WS to compensate the BS. A reparation of the damage that in the long run would make the marriage better than it was before.
This is the part of MB that I have the problem with. I am a minority of one so keep that in mind. Your WH made you unhappy but yet you didn't cheat. What is the difference? The difference is in how each of you process and act upon unhappiness. Some spouses feel a sense of entitlement. Others feel their affair is justified because they are unhappy. As my glorious WW put it: if you don't take care of your crops, someone else will. Nevermind I was flat on my back dying and in and out of the hospital. Even to this day, she feels suprememely confident that she was justified. Or so she says..............
Dr. Frank Pittman explains the concept of "you can make your spouse unhappy, but you can't make them unfaithful" extremely well. I would typically post a portion of an article he wrote, but it irritates Pio, so I will refrain this time.
Why do you think this places you in a minority Todd? Gee I think everyone agrees with this for sure.
Some people have really bad coping mechanisms and have an affair. DER.
For the 1000th time, I am not disagreeing with any of that. For the record, I think it is a useless mental exercise at this point in the game and, once again, is your single greatest obstacle to wanting to R with your WW.
... Dr. Harley simply says there is plenty of time to deal with that later - right now, let's just get the couple back together and then work out the details. I Don't see any conflict in the good doctors.
One does an autoposy of the A. The other saves the M. They are two people describing different facets of the same problem.
I wanted to share this story for my gringo friends.
I friend of mine has a piece of land in a very remote are in the Cortes Sea, it's called Bahía de los Ángeles, almost at the middle of Baja California peninsula, to the West. Well this location has had ups and downs since it was 'discovered' by Spanish misioners in the 17 century. After a miners boom in the early 1900's, with a French and a British colony, with wineries included, now it is a turistic spot for people with airplanes, money, time or just a pasion for hard to find paradises.
Along the years many Americans rented land there because until recent years they could not 'own' land in a beach. More Americans are settling there and as the conditions of survival are hard they tend to meddle with the local population.
Well, one of these gringos was coming to the town of Bahía the los Ángeles from a day in the inland and he hit and killed a buck, called Berrendo, there. He felt so guilty that he went to tell the local police about it. Then he went to my friend house to tell him what had happened. He was miserable. Later that night my friend and other of his friend decided to go look for the buck, to eat it of course, there were there in the middle of the night when they come across with the police officer, and then other people to whom the gringo had told about his accident, were there too. Realizing that it was crazy to justify why all of a suden all of them were there they decided to orginize the search and find the buck. They find it, they gave it to my friends friend, the more acomplished cooker and all went to sleep. They even joked about inviting the gringo to eat the buck with them that weekend.
Trust me, when Pio's DD's hit their teens, Pio will clean his shotgun constantly. All I can say is that God knew what he was doing when he gave me all sons.
Boy can I relate to this. God gave me 3 sons for a reason.
Well, BigK, the only way I can say "hi" to you these days seems to be on someone else's thread, with most sincere apologies to Pio for the intrusionette. (it's only a small one, you see...) And an austere, genteel, MB gender-neutral "hello" to you, BigK.
Thus far, I have a drummer and a guitarist (myself). Still looking for another guitarist, keyboards and bass. I know a great bassist, but he plays in a jazz band plus he plays in the symphony orchestra. Too bad.
Nonetheless, I have already launched my songwriting career. I am currently writing the lyrics to an song entitled, "You Can't Trust a Woman". I have the basic music set already and just need to fill in the verses and middle eight and I am set. Then fill in the band members. I hope to have an entire album written before our first practice.
Okay, I abandoned "You Can't Trust a Woman" for now. Way too personal at the moment. Wait until I get back from the mariachi and perhaps a Corona or two and I will finish it. Meanwhile, I just penned the second one. Nothing great. I wrote it in five minutes so keep your expectations low. This is not Jackson Browne or Bob Dylan; it is lite pop rock music. It is called "Again".
Again
Every time I try so hard to see What is wrong with you and me You just want to cry Why should I even try?
I’ve been going round and round with you I am dizzy don’t you feel it too? No, you don’t feel anything it’s true Why do you persist in being you?
(Middle Eight)
Happy times were when we didn’t try We could look inside each other and cry Now you got me wound up like a ball And all I can do is cry, that’s all.
Again.
(lead guitar solo)
Every time I try too hard to see. What there used to be with you and me. I can’t focus my eyes. I will never try
Again.
(Repeat and second and third stanzas and close)
As for the melody, I picture something moderate in tempo, melodic with some obvious sad overtones and a little syncopation because of the lyrics structure.
Todd, I'm not qualified to comment the lyrics but I don't understand or like the word ball in there. Lol.
By the way, it seems creative efforts, as well as memory excercises, can do wonders to your brain. Also equilibrium, exercises where you teach yourself to use the hand you use less.
Hi thndrnltng, your name is a little difficult to spell, lol.
The name came from what I wanted to do to Neak's husband about the time all his affair feces hit her poor rotating blades. Actually, I had in mind more lightning than thunder, if the truth be told. LOTS of lightning. Fricaseed alien kabobs! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> But the name was kinda long to keep typing over and over...that's why I shortened it to t&l. I couldn't spell it either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Quote
This is not Pio's thread, he says he has one but I've not seen it.
I think he's used all his thread in the effort to stitch his shredded life back together again. And more power to him, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And to you all, for that matter. Although you may have to use your own thread, if Pio is out.
Oh great. Now another name to keep track of on this thread. At least we chased away MelodyLane. Welcome T&L - I have no idea why you think I am so hard to track down.
I'm not sure my labor and delivery parodies (Puffy the Perineum [Puff the Magic Dragon], Put Your Foot on My Shoulder [Put Your Head on My Shoulder], Hemorrhoids [Feelings], etc.) would be quite such a welcome addition on this thread, as one might think... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
However, just for you, Larousse...
"Ain't no sunshine when she's one And she wants her labor done... Ain't no sunshine when she's two, Going home, and mad at you. Ain't no sunshine when she's three, Longing for delivery... Ain't no sunshine when she's four, Mad as hops, can't take no more. Ain't no sunshine when she's five, And her mood just takes a dive... Ain't no sunshine when she's six, With those pains your drugs don't fix. Ain't no sunshine when she's seven... If it ain't he-l-l, it sure ain't heaven. Ain't no sunshine when she's eight, Wants to push, but not to wait. Ain't no sunshine when she's nine, Though her labor's going fine... Ain't no sunshine when she's ten, Hates your guts, won't push again. No, no, no, no, no, no, blah, blah, blah.
I have read too many BS posts accepting blame for the affair. That is wrong and it is much more than a mental exercise to those folks.
As for forgiveness, I am not very good at it, especially for such a fundamental wrong. Can I forgive one day? Yes. Will I forgive? Depends on WW. And I have read countless posts in which forgiveness is described as being for the benefit of Mr. Kite, no wait a minute, that's not right; being for the benefit of the BS. Bullhockey. That is mental gymnastics with folks trying to fool themselves. And for those concerned that I will become a bitter old man if I don't forgive, don't be concerned. I am very good at it.
I think this is the biggest difference between me and you, Todd, and Pio. I forgive my H for his A. I don't think you guys are there yet. Forgive me if I'm wrong. I have accepted responsibility for my actions that led him astray and am working on them, not so he'll come back, but for myself, because I wasn't a happy person and I am now. If he were to want to come back, my biggest issue with him would not be forgiveness, but trust. How could I ever trust him again?
I talked to my mom today and she also brought up a good point that I need to think long and hard about: I've been fine since WH moved out, I haven't cried in 3 weeks (except last night, a little), I'm not angry about what he's done. Is it really him per se that I want back, or is it the concept of being married? I think I know the answer, but maybe not. Time will tell.
If he were to want to come back, my biggest issue with him would not be forgiveness, but trust. How could I ever trust him again?
Steph, you can learn to trust him again IF he demonstrates trustworthy behavior. That being said, you should NEVER blindly trust him or anyone else again. Blind trust only leaves the door open for problems in a marriage. Trust, but verify, should be your new motto.
And secondly, how can you "forgive" your H when he has not stopped his affair or asked FOR your forgiveness? Forgiveness is for when he has STOPPED his affair and for when he SEEKS forgiveness. Otherwise, it is just a selfish feel good gesture that means nothing. A person should be WILLING to forgive when it is appropriate, however. But it is much, much more than an emtpy exercise in feel goodism. See what I mean?
I just don't have the energy for hatred, anger or resentment yet. I know I should be feeling all of these things, but I don't. The trust thing is hard for me because I have always had trust issues, stemming from my childhood and my father. After dealing with him, I never trusted anybody outside my immediate family. Until WH. And I want to trust him again, but it will take work and even then I don't know if I'll be able to do it.
I guess, maybe instead of forgiving him, I'm not holding it against him...does that make sense?
t&l your talent is deserved of London East End, oh is East End in London? Well, nevermind, I wish I could write the Musical that makes honor to your compositions.
Stef - Whatever gets you through the day is fine. But your emotions will change minute by minute. It's a rollercoaster. We ain't kidding about that. WHat you feel is what you feel. But ML is correct. She is totally correct. Listen to her.
I know that too, but I need to figure out exactly what I'm feeling and why. I need to calm down and stay calm, so I can make good and rational decisions about everything. Right now, everything I'm feeling all over the place, so I need to sort them out, get myself organized and decide what it is I want and the best way to go about it. Obviously, Plan A being goal #1 right now.
You can't. Before the A, I took my WW's fidelity and adherience to her vows for granted. Obviously I was wrong. If we do R, I will not make that mistake again.
You can't. Before the A, I took my WW's fidelity and adherience to her vows for granted. Obviously I was wrong. If we do R, I will not make that mistake again.
Then what's your plan if you do R? You can't have a relationship without trust.
Back from marachi night. They played Mujares Divina or however it is spelled. Great song. And, of course, they played my favorite song Lambada. All great.
Stph, Harley says that not only most of us are capable of having an affair but that noone should be trusted blindly.
Not only because of the risk of an affair but because the partner of a marriage needs to have complete honesty to each other to grow as a couple, he recomends the Policy of Radical Honesty.
Now Stph how can you take this separation with less impatience?
You could concentrate in all the things that have to change before he comes back, if he comes back because you beg him to do it, there is a risk that he doesn't accept the Policy of Radical HOnesty, there is also the risk that he keeps the affair, just best underwater. So, it's in your best interest that when he comes back he does it because he wants to and because he has accepted to have no contact with her for life.
I'm done begging him to come back (or not to leave, as was the case). I'm OK with him gone and I'll be OK if he comes back. I'm just impatient with the limbo stage and with him.
I just don't have the energy for hatred, anger or resentment yet. I know I should be feeling all of these things, but I don't.
huh? that has nothing to do with "forgiveness," Steph. It is quite normal and healthy to feel anger at injustice, though. That has nothing to do with forgiveness.
Quote
I guess, maybe instead of forgiving him, I'm not holding it against him...does that make sense?
That makes more sense. You can forgive him [when appropriate] and you should be angry at him. He has mistreated you. You will probably be angry for a very long time, that is PART OF a healthy, normal recovery.
I know what he has done is awful and the ultimate disrespect, but does it make me a doormat to him if I never get angry? Does he need to see me angry? Or, will that push him further away and into divorce?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not deliberately keeping myself from being angry for that reason, I'm just wondering.
Todd you're a gentleman because you looked at my idea of managing artists, gave it some thoughtful discussion & responed with a thank you. Sweet & gentlemanly.
Tonight I was at a fund raising event for the cooperative gallery where I sell my work. Area restaurants donated soups, bakeries bread & the artists bring the desserts. We sell bowls (not made by potters) which people fill with soup as often as they like. We have art work people bid on in a silent auction. Great soup (my favorite food) & it's fun to see most of the members.
Lots of people came & there were plenty of people helping out. The auction goes on for 3 weeks or so then we have a party on the last day for bidding. We'll see. Most of my work received bids which is nice.
I know what he has done is awful and the ultimate disrespect, but does it make me a doormat to him if I never get angry? Does he need to see me angry? Or, will that push him further away and into divorce?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not deliberately keeping myself from being angry for that reason, I'm just wondering.
Do you feel angry? Maybe you don't feel angry at all right now. Many don't at this point. But if it does come, you don't have to hide it. You just have to channel it in a positive way without lovebusters. Anger is not a bad thing, it is a healthy response to injustice.
WH just called me. He wanted to know what I found out from the lawyer today. I told him what she said and he's OK with everything! He honest to God wants this divorce!!!!
Now I'm crying for the 2nd day in a row. How pathetic am I.
I'm tired of talking to him and getting upset every time.
As predicted, nothing I said last night got through.
I never actually had a lot of anger Stef. At first I felt like I deserved it. Eventually, I realised no one deserves it. Every marriage has problems but an affair was a choice by the WS. Took me a few weeks to get that.
WH just called me. He wanted to know what I found out from the lawyer today. I told him what she said and he's OK with everything! He honest to God wants this divorce!!!!
Now I'm crying for the 2nd day in a row. How pathetic am I.
I'm tired of talking to him and getting upset every time.
As predicted, nothing I said last night got through.
Remember what I told you: talk is cheap with a WS. You are crying over the words of a confused, falling down drunk. Go by his ACTIONS, not his words! What he said is nothing more than classic WS FOGBABBLE. Go eat a peach and quit your crying, hon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It's hard to remember that when I'm talking to him and he's willing to do whatever it takes to get a divorce and doesn't even sound like he feels bad, which I know he doesn't right now, but it doesn't make it hurt less.
Snif* no one has asked for any of MY parody songs.
Well, all right, if you insist. You all know It's a Small World, right?
"Flard's Dino Land" by Neak, age approx 14 *Inspired by actual events*
It's a world of land mines and kitty poops, Fla-ard stuck his hand in and then said "Oops," It is riddled with all kinds of kitty gloops, In Flard's Dino Land.
Chorus: Kitties love Flard's Dino Land, Much more than they like their sand, Flard, he tries to have them banned, From his Dino Land.
Well, whaddya think? Broadway, here I come!
Okay, well yes, I guess I can kind of see that, but....but.....but......fine then! I can tell you don't want to hear Mom's and my duet rendition of "Mammaries (All Alone in the Moonlight)" either.
If he is so willing to "get a divorce" then why hasn't he filed?
Because A) he doesn't think he can yet. And I didn't realize until today that he can. I thought the only grounds he could file under is irreconsilable (sp?) differences and in IL, a 6 month separation is necessary first. My lawyer told me today that he could file today under mental cruelty if he wanted. IL is not a no-fault divorce state. I didn't tell him that tonight. And B) he can't afford it. My parents are paying for my divorce, but he doesn't have that luxury. And he doesn't really like to deal with things, he would rather me do it and him follow my lead. Which, if this does happen, will benefit me.
I so don't want this!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
with most sincere apologies to Pio for the intrusionette.
You have always been invited to post here. I think you must be still upset that I still have you on my ignore list. That wasn't specifically your fault. You simply got caught by the "no vowels" rule.
See it's like magic. ML is like Lemmonman - speak her name and she appears.
Did you ever see the movei "Candyman"? Where you said that 5 times looking into the mirror and he would appear with his hook hand and gut you? I think there was at least one sequel.
[looking into mirror] lemonman... lemonman... lemonman... lemonman...
I'm just impatient with the limbo stage and with him.
I know this exactly. I have been in this position for approximately what? 8 or 9 months?
Different couple have different timelines. You will learn to be more patient with time. Other than that, Plan A is tough duty. I won't kid you about that. It is why we want to give you so much encouragement. We know how hard it is. But you CAN do it.
I needed to know why he called me and wanted to know about my meeting today. He just said he wanted to know what I found out. He didn't call for any other reason, ie. to work things out.
I asked if anything I said last night got through and he said no.
I asked if he wanted this so badly why he's not making any moves and he said because he can't afford it. He said he would file tomorrow if he could, but he can't so he's going to wait his 6 months and file then. He doesn't have a problem with that.
I asked him again why he wanted this so badly and he said that he thinks he can be happier somewhere else. I pointed out that he said "he thinks". I said, "if you only think, shouldn't you be sure before making such a big move?" Then he got mad because now I'm listening to every word he's saying and using it to my benefit all of a sudden. I told him that that has been my point all along.
Tonight was not the night to do this...he had a bad day at work and was already in a bad mood. I didn't help the situation.
It's hard to remember that when I'm talking to him and he's willing to do whatever it takes to get a divorce and doesn't even sound like he feels bad, which I know he doesn't right now, but it doesn't make it hurt less.
That's because you are forgetting who is on the phone. I know he SOUNDS a lot like your husband but he is NOT your husband. Your husband may still be in there trapped inside the body but he is not the one talking to you.
Give me a minute. I am just trying to remember how many times I said this same thing. Ok, this is going to take a while...
Quote
Then he got mad because now I'm listening to every word he's saying
Use it to your benefit and then forget about it.
Stop listening to the words. Only look at his actions. Words to a lying conniving WS are useless drool from their mouths.
You, like me, keep picking at the scab. You keep getting into these little conversations hoping against hope that a light will go on, the clouds will part and the sun will shine again.
While I always wanted that, it never happened. I was the one who was always hurt by those conversations. I learned to stop having them.
Oops! I never heard that part. In that case, you can blame Neak for bring back those bad mammaries. She's my daughter, but only by marriage! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
As in, I married her father and we had a daughter...although I think I did all the really tough stuff! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Give me a minute. I am just trying to remember how many times I said this same thing. Ok, this is going to take a while...
What has made you not give up then? I don't have kids, so give me something more than that.
Stop listening to the words. Only look at his actions.
What actions? There are no actions from him.
You, like me, keep picking at the scab. You keep getting into these little conversations hoping against hope that a light will go on, the clouds will part and the sun will shine again.
While I always wanted that, it never happened. I was the one who was always hurt by those conversations. I learned to stop having them.
I don't know how to stop having conversations yet. I do have hope that something will penetrate his brain and make him see what he's doing. I have 6 months of limited time spent with him to get him to change his mind. He knows I don't want a divorce, he told me that tonight. And he knows that I think I'm going to change his mind in these 6 months. "Not going to happen" (his words to me). He's going to have a barrier block in his head against me until he gets this divorce. So why bother trying anymore?
How in the he!! have you done this for [b]9 months!!
Officially I am over a year now. I only count time from "official" NC. I don't count from Dday.
It is difficult to answer that question. The first thing that occurred to me was like trying to cross a stream without getting wet. Just when you think you have gone as far as you can and can't get to the other side, you spot another stone just barely within your reach and you jump on it and get just a little bit further. That's the best I can explain it.
edited to add:
but you never lose sight of the other side. That's your motivation - always keeping your goal in sight.
"Mammaries (All Alone in the Moonlight" is just one of our favorite song parodies. Nothing more complicated than that.
Quote
or is this really a confusing post?
Cinderella, Cinderella...what's with you, girl? You didn't catch the joke about Teddies, either! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You're apparently going to have to try just a little harder to keep abreast <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> of the humor around here!
Quote
Is it that muscle relaxant injection talking
The only muscle relaxant injection that bosoms ever need is really a very common drug. The technical name is called "Passage of Time", and it's available without a prescription, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Speak for yourself, Neak. As I told Pio, I'm only related to you by marriage! And several stretch marks with your name on them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
but you never lose sight of the other side. That's your motivation - always keeping your goal in sight.
I don't even know what the goal is anymore. I do know, but I can't do it alone and H doesn't want anything to do with it.
Aren't you people exhausted?!? You've all been dealing with this longer than I have and I'm just drained...I can't imagine dealing with this any longer, especially over a year (not that I'll get that chance)!
So, what keeps you hanging on and not divorcing, or her from divorcing for that matter?
two things:
1) When I married her I didn't say "love, honor and obey until you have an affair" (I did go back and check just to make certain).
2) If my daughters can have a complete and loving family, that's what I want for them. Neither gemela nor I ever had that. I guess I just watched way too many "Father Knows Best" reruns when I was a kid. Believe it or not, that was my greatest fantasy - to have a wonderful family. I never missed an episode. I especially liked Frahnk Smeeeth - the gardener. That's Frahnk - efay erray ah enay kah - Smeeeth - Genuine USA name.
Hey, you don't suppose there was any funny business going on between Margaret and Frahnk do you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
but I can't do it alone and H doesn't want anything to do with it.
That's because he is still seeing OW. NC is a critical stage in the process. That's why I only count from that day.
Unfortunately for all of us, the initial responsibility for trying to save the M is pretty much all on our shoulders. Didn't you see that in the brochure? Travel agents - I swear.
Reminds me of the time gemela and I went to Cozumel. Everything was great until we started to get in the water. Filled with millons of jelly fish. The guy on the boat said - oh that happens every year in April - that definitely wasn't in the brochure!
please try and remember that there are ladies present.
Actually in my case it was more like Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom where the guy sticks his hand right into your chest and rips out your beating heart and holds it in the air above his head laughing while you look down in utter disbelief at the open hole in your chest and realize in shcok that your heart is no longer there.
I don't even know what the goal is anymore. I do know, but I can't do it alone and H doesn't want anything to do with it.
Aren't you people exhausted?!? You've all been dealing with this longer than I have and I'm just drained...I can't imagine dealing with this any longer, especially over a year (not that I'll get that chance)!
Stef - you've been at this for how long now? 5 milliseconds? This isn't going to get fixed overnight.
STOP acting emotionally START thinking DEVELOPE a Strategy STOP feeling sorry for yourself STOP blaming yourself STOP talking about divorce START reading EVERYTHING you can on this site.
OK, so you never wanted a divorce, just like I don't...did gemela ever want a divorce?
The theme I keep seeing on these posts is that the WS wants the marriage to work and is remorseful about the A. I very rarely have seen a post that the WS wants a divorce as badly as my H wants one.
Just a thought...What could possibly be more graphic than what your WSs have already done to you? Does it really feel better if you say your heart was extracted with the assistance of a sigmoidoscope and extended forceps? Or is it just ripped, no matter how it's expressed?
Just remember that everyone here not only wants to help you but many have been there, done it and saved their marriages.
Maybe because it does hurt you so much that sometimes you just have to go on faith. Trust what is being told you is really sound advice.
I will warn you though - if you start to feel too sorry for yourself, we can be pretty mean. We all want to feel sorry for ourselves at times. The rest of us won't let that happen for too long. And I feel a good 2x4 whacking from bigK coming so I am going to get out of his range.
What could possibly be more graphic than what your WSs have already done to you? Does it really feel better if you say your heart was extracted with the assistance of a sigmoidoscope and extended forceps? Or is it just ripped, no matter how it's expressed?
Sorry but the clinical description just doesn't QUITE capture the moment. In my case my heart was "arrancado de mi pecho".
And admit it, I've been fine all day long until I talked to him.
I just have questions, that's all.
And I keep telling you people that I'm confused. You were all prewarned so I don't want to hear it!
And I have read and reread everything on this site and SAA. I'm still not grasping or comprehending his actions and I probably never will, because I don't have the mind set of, "I'm not happy, so I'll go have an A".
AND, have I mentioned that I'm an impatient person?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Stef - My wife left me to shack up with OM. She sure wanted a divorce although not as badly as your H does. Like we said a bazillion times, ignore what they say. Only look at what they do. You'll keep much saner that way. Trust me on this.
Not in the correct order. Gemela just wanted to abandon her family and run off and live with OM. I don't think divorce ever crossed her mind. It wasn't part of the romance.
Just remember that everyone here not only wants to help you but many have been there, done it and saved their marriages.
Maybe because it does hurt you so much that sometimes you just have to go on faith. Trust what is being told you is really sound advice.
I'm trying really hard to trust you guys and your advice. I want to really badly, but you all know how hard this is to deal with...especially the first 5 milliseconds...I'll get there.
I will warn you though - if you start to feel too sorry for yourself, we can be pretty mean. We all want to feel sorry for ourselves at times. The rest of us won't let that happen for too long. And I feel a good 2x4 whacking from bigK coming so I am going to get out of his range.
Don't hit me too hard BigK!! I'll do better, I promise!
Like we said a bazillion times, ignore what they say. Only look at what they do. You'll keep much saner that way. Trust me on this.
And I'll probably have to be told another bazillion times, each time he talks to me with his attitude. Sooner or later, I'm going to get pi$$ed off enough about the attitude, I'm going to tell him to shove it and give him what he wants.
And I would love to look at what he's doing,if he were doing anything!! If he had $$, he would be doing something; divorcing me!
I do trust you, because it makes me feel a little better knowing that he can't file yet and won't be able to for a while.
In fact Stef - I want you to promise me you will avoid ANY relationship talk with your Alien WH for the next week.
What are his EN's again? Start meeting them as much as you can. EXCEPT for SF - Panties ON. Gotit?
I promise...no relationship talk for a week. He is supposed to come over Sunday to go through our stuff to agree on in the divorce...does that count, or should I cancel? I only ask, because if he does this, I want my a$$ covered first, so I would like the paperwork submitted to my lawyer before he can do anything, or doesn't agree to things later.
Homework to myself: do his EN's questionnaire for him and start meeting them when I can. I'll report it to you tomorrow.
And no SF...man, you play hardball!! It's as much for me as it is for him...I don't deserve to be punished because he's stupid!
Well I now have to get the DDs going. Breakfast, get dressed, go to the store, etc. And don't forget, I got roped inot a marathon Uno game later today.
How is it kids can forget to do their homework, forget where they left their teddy bear (EVERY SINGLE FREAKIN DAY!), forget to brush their teeth, etc. but they can never forget an off-handed comment about Uno? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Stef - Plan B should be a ways off. You are ready for Plan B when you have almost lost all your love for him. Are you perchance able to get telephone counselling with the Harleys?
Don't talk about Divorce with him. Gee you are right. A bazillion times doesn't do it. Talk marriage and reconcilliation not divorce - just not for the next week OK?
Do the EN thing. YES. Then you can do a proper Plan A.
NO SF. Damn right I play hardball. I understand from what you have written you love SF. Get a vibrator Stef. I hear the Rabbit one is particularly good.
Y'll write too fast, I'll have to give up my job to keep up with this thread !
T&L and Neak, surely Todd will apreciate your literary colaboration, he's in charge of cultivate us about the scary world of poetry and lyrics. Now, be aware there's an English teacher around, disguised as muddy fighter, she takes ofense to some language crimes. She ignores my crimes because I usually don't know better. Ty, Kiwi.
Pio your Spanish is pretty good actually, with apostrophs and all. It was just naturally that G used an Aztec way to rip your hearth out, more than 500 years of experience.
I made oat meal tonight and tried to be creative, wrong move. Almond oil escent, vainilla, cianamon and powder ginger. Yuck.
Hi Stph, you are doing fine, you just don't know it yet.
Stef - Plan B should be a ways off. You are ready for Plan B when you have almost lost all your love for him. Are you perchance able to get telephone counselling with the Harleys?
Don't talk about Divorce with him. Gee you are right. A bazillion times doesn't do it. Talk marriage and reconcilliation not divorce - just not for the next week OK?
Do the EN thing. YES. Then you can do a proper Plan B.
NO SF. Damn right I play hardball. I understand from what you have written you love SF. Get a vibrator Stef. I hear the Rabbit one is particularly good.
I wish I could get counseling with the Harley's, I just can't afford it, even though I know it's worth it, the cash flow is just not here right now. I'm going to call my pastor next week and set up an appointment for WH to talk to her, since he said he would last night.
It's not that I LOVE SF, I just enjoy it with him and he enjoys it with me...a vibrator is just not the same, but I'll refrain from it.
I need to avoid reconciliation too; he doesn't want to hear it and it makes him mad and frustrated with me. I am that smart now!
I promise to do what you say for the next week. But he always makes little comments about us getting divorced. I try to ignore him and them, but it's frustrating to hear it ALL THE FREAKIN TIME!! I know he wants a divorce, but good grief, get over it already!
Stef - Make sure you see I edited that post you quoted - I meant to say Plan A not Plan B
Quote
Do the EN thing. YES. Then you can do a proper Plan A
Has WH been in the habit of attending church with you? I didn't know you were a church goer. Will he listen to Pastor (he asks hopefully). My wife did.
He knows how to press your hot buttons Stef. You seem like you are developing some self control. This is good. Act. Don't react to him. Identify his EN's and meet them to the extent he will let you. This is good because it will make you attractive to him.
That's been one problem: he is definitely NOT a church goer. Wants pretty much nothing to do with it. Until this all started, I haven't been in church since our wedding day, although I pray a lot and I do have a deep belief in God. I go off and on now, but I've been doing counseling sessions with the pastor about once a week, or when I think I need it. I haven't been in 2 weeks. So, he's been extremely resistant to talking to her, even though I've asked many times (but not pushed). He doesn't want any "religous talk" from her.
It all depends on his mood that day if he'll listen to her or not. He may have his guard up and then nothing will get through. But, if he's the one that said he would go, even though he doesn't want to, he might just listen. I don't know how it'll go. That's why I didn't call and set up the appointment first thing this morning and am waiting until sometime next week. And it depends on what the Pastor will tell him too. She's been preparing me for divorce, since he moved out. She may just listen to him and decide there's no changing his mind and not even try to. It all makes me a little nervous.
I honestly suggest at the very least your pastor is pro-marriage. Maybe you should find a church where there are counselors who are trained psychs as well as pro marriage. At the very least your pastor must understand your goals and be working with you not against you.
I was very disappointed with the counselling expertise of our Pastor who meant well and was pro-marriage (very much so) but didn't have the slightest idea how to help us. MB saved my marriage pure and simple. I found the tools here on this site much more helpful than my pastor. But having said that he was helpful when I was trying to ruin my wife's affair. Unfortunately for you, your Husband is unlikely to care about what your pastor thinks.
I presume you have exposed your husbands affair to anyone who can have an influence on his behaviour?
I have a problem and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.
I got some Slinfast and was reading the directions and it says that with sensible diet and exercise and one nutritious Slimfast shake a day, I can lose 1 pound a week.
That sounds easy enough.
So I decided to try to lose more. I figure if one shake a day equals one pound a week, ten shakes a day should make me lose ten pounds a week. So I have been drinking 10 shakes a day but I'm not losing any weight. I think this Slimfast thing is a load of tripe. It doesn't work.
Todd you're a gentleman because you looked at my idea of managing artists, gave it some thoughtful discussion & responed with a thank you. Sweet & gentlemanly.
Hi nams,
Whew! I am relieved. I was afraid you were being sarcastic. Just to update, I heard back from a few of the artists I contacted. Rembrandt called. He is one weird dude. I don't think I will represent him. Probably not that good an artist anyway. Then Monet called. Or was it Manet? Anyone, he couldn't speak English so I have ruled him out. And then Michelangelo's agent called and said that his client had his head in the ceiling. I will not represent drug addicts so I am down to that Picasso fellow unless he turns out to be a disappointment.
BTW, my son thinks it is a great idea. He will talk to his artist friends and get their input. My thought is to actually list their work on an internet site. What do you think about that? Basically could be a site to sell art for artist clients and collect a commission; percentage of the sales price.
Good thing you didn't know abot the Cambridge Diet (no, no the affair diet) until now.
Could someone tell me how we, women, are supouse to have fully operative brains? After half an hour of curling my hair with heated curler I don't feel the arms or the hands for that matter. My lef and right lobules must look like Todd microweaved potato.
Todd would you ask for the song Mujeres Divinas? Let me know if you do it.
That song title is slightly wrong. larousse, the corect title is "mujeres ... ¿adivinas?"
Will you cut me some slack? You have been on me like stink on a june bug. Besides the mariachi knew exactly what I meant.
BTW, DS2 joined me for dinner and ended up spending the night with me. He was going in the field today and where I live is closer to the field location so it worked out great. He got the band to play some Bosa Nova number. He loves Bosa Nova and plays it on guitar almost excusively. Coincidentally, he is trying to put a band together as well. Completely different music from my band so no match. Anyway fun time.
What I need from WW in order to forgive her is to see genuine remorse and regret for her affair. I have not seen anything close to that. When she has done that, I will forgive. If that is not forgiveness, then fine. I don't really care. It is the way I approach it and it works for me.
Okay let's just think about the situation where WW never expresses remorse. WW blames you for the A the rest of her natural life. WW thinks you are the devil incarnate.
Are you willing to live with the bitterness until your dying day?
As I have said many times before, we have been given the ideal example of forgiveness. We all know it. In that case, there was certainly no remorse.
I'm just not a good enough person to not be able to forgive. There are two issues: what WW did in the eyes of God. That is none of my business. Then there is the sin that WW did to me. Adultery is not that sin - that one is between her and God. So what am I forgiving or not forgiving WW for?
What you are asking WW for is repentance. Fair enough. As a BS it would be nice to see because it is recognition that WW believes on some level that affairs are wrong and, more importantly, may be less inclined to repeat the behavior in the future.
I am dying over here. Is there a male equivalent of the rabbit or at least a vibrator? And also, I saw the Sybian demonstrated on the Howard Stern show. It was pretty interesting.
What I want to know is why BigK is such an expert on vibrators but I didn't want to be the one to bring it up. Is it GPS positioned or something? I'm missing something.
Are you willing to live with the bitterness until your dying day?
There is always a presumption that an act of not forgiving leads to permanent bitterness. I am telling you that folks are different and process events differently. I know myself in this area from experience. Things were done to me in my childhood, not by my parents BTW, that I have not forgiven, and will never forgive, and guess what? No bitterness whatsoever about it. I never think about it until a discussion on the relative merits of forgiveness surfaces and only then to use it as an example. In the forgiveness industry, one size does not fit all. Bathrobes, yes.
That song title is slightly wrong. larousse, the corect title is "mujeres ... ¿adivinas?"
That was for larousse - not you. Go back and read it.
Well, in that case, I was taking up for larousse. The band knew the song instantly although there is not doubt that my Anglo tongue butchered the pronounciation. And they accepted the money so all is well that ends swell.
So true. And I wouldn't want y'all to be. Hey, that reminds me of a joke. It is very funny. No, wait, Pio and BigK will bust my chops so I won't tell it.
Todd, I think Pio is playing with the words 'divinas' divine and adivinas, like someone who knows things just by guessing them, sorry about my vocabulary.
Just to cast my answers in their proper light, it is important to know that most of my WW's opinions about our marriage and me come from her two best friends. As a reminder, both friends are divorced, abandoned their kids and are alcoholics. With that in mind....
1. She complained that I should cook my own meals. Okay. For twenty years, she was a SAHM with our three sons. She cooked for the family. I would occasionally cook to give her a break but honestly, nobody like the food when I cooked. Except pancakes. This is was especially true after we became empty-nesters which I can understand because it can be difficult to cook for just two. I told her fine, quit cooking. If I needed dinner that night, I would cook it or go get it. So, if I decided to not eat one night, she would storm into the kitchen and cook a meal, usually with me not being aware of it. In her mind, she couldn't see me skipping dinner. To me, skipping dinner was no big deal.
2. She didn't like the way I cleaned. When she cleans the kitchen, she washes the dishes and then loads them into the DW. I load them directly into the DW without washing them. It sounds comical but it was a big issue that I didn't prewash the dishes. I never gave in to the lunacy of pre-washing. Could I have done more around the house? Should I have? Yes to both. But, in my defense, I played with the boys every night. Either board games, card games, wrestling, etc. My youngest Kevin, got a doctor’s kit for Christmas one year and I kid you not, we played doctor every day for months. Many days I was so tired and stressed from work I couldn’t think straight, but I played along. I also gave baths to my sons and read a bedtime story every single night. Still, I admit I could have and should have done more.
3. That I tried to control her. This came directly from her friends. I in no way tried to control anything she did. Let me give you an example. She would go shopping and be gone for say, five hours. We had a date to have dinner that night. She called and said she was going to have dinner with her best friend and her boyfriend. I asked her what about our plans? She angrily retorted: you can't control me! That came directly from her BF, trust me.
She went out with the girls, took vacations with female friends, shopped anytime and as long as she wanted (and spent as much money as she wanted) with no complaints from me.
4. She complained that I was mean to her sister. This is very true. Her sister has tried from the beginning of our marriage to break us apart. Why? Because she has had three failed marriages and if we fail, it normalizes her sitch. My first job out of college, I had to travel. Before I accepted the job, we discussed it and she agreed she was okay with it because it was such a good position. Her sister started telling her that she used to get hit on her by married men who traveled and that ToddAC is cheating on you when he travels. I came home from my very first trip to accusations and a court martial. I could go on and on about this sister, but you get the idea.
5. She wanted me to be more sociable. This one was always funny to me. When we went to parties, I was not to leave her by herself. I am always at ease in any social situation. What she really meant was she wanted to do more with her two BF and their then current boyfriends. I cannot tell you how many different boyfriends I have met. And the lifestyle of her best friends was completely different from ours. Ours was very family oriented (my definition of family) and our life centered around our kids, probably too much honestly. Her friends always wanted to meet for drinks, and even when meeting for dinner, all they wanted to do was drink. So, yes, valid point. I did not want to socialize with her friends.
thanks for your replay to my question. I have two more: What attracted your wife to you? What things in your marriage your wife found, finds, positive about you?
Well one more: How's your son, is he surviving without XGF?
thanks for your replay to my question. I have two more: What attracted your wife to you?
I'll tell you what she has told me many times. In no particular order.
1. Sense of humor 2. Sweet 3. Intelligent 4. Ambitious - she knew I would be a good provider. 5. Looks 6. Affectionate
Quote
What things in your marriage your wife found, finds, positive about you?
1. Good provider 2. She says I am the best Father she knows 3. SF 4. Affectionate 5. Sense of humor 6. Sweet 7. Supportive - I have gone to great lengths to help her grown and gain self-confidence and acheivements.
Quote
Well one more: How's your son, is he surviving without XGF?
It's a funny break up. When I was young and you broke up with a girl, you would hardly talk to her for a long while and she the same. Son and GF had dinner the other night; lunch the other day, etc. I don't know how to read modern relationship tealeaves apparently.
Alright, Todd...you win....not ready to confess...but you got me to post....
Just started my 'catching up' on the thread...and this caught my eye....
Quote
I pride myself on being scientific
Sorry, buddy....back to the drawing board on that point!
Don't worry....I am 'lurking' and am keeping up to date.... you're all doing a great job with stph20 (she chose her name...and I will respect it....unlike our Australian camarade...LOL...because I think stph is in enough trouble.....although a vowel somewhere in there would have helped!)
I just 'feel' I little out of it...that's all...I'll be OK.
I still have 10 pages to go....hoping no major 'CRISIS' has happened overnight..but with this gang....who knows!
Geesh....Todd...you could have read the manual for the microwave before getting yourself into all that trouble!
you're all doing a great job with stph20 (she chose her name...and I will respect it....unlike our Australian camarade...LOL...because I think stph is in enough trouble.....although a vowel somewhere in there would have helped!)
I'm glad some people are using my "correct" name! But, I've got to ask...what's up with the vowel thing??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Vowels are friendly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Todd, I'll comment about your post in a while, ty.
Payday here for me. Like a solidarity gesture and to avoid further reprimands to you from the English teacher and the soccer coach, I won't buy a tequila bottle so you don't feel tempted to drink anymore Coronas.
Geesh....Todd...you could have read the manual for the microwave before getting yourself into all that trouble!
Yeah I know. So much for being scientific, eh? Not to worry. They removed my microwave after the second fire alarm went off. BTW, does anyone know how can I get out of these handcuffs?
Pio doesn't permit members in his thread if they have no vowels in their user name. I think that is why the BigK renamed you stef - to give you a vowel.
I honestly suggest at the very least your pastor is pro-marriage. Maybe you should find a church where there are counselors who are trained psychs as well as pro marriage. At the very least your pastor must understand your goals and be working with you not against you.
I was very disappointed with the counselling expertise of our Pastor who meant well and was pro-marriage (very much so) but didn't have the slightest idea how to help us. MB saved my marriage pure and simple. I found the tools here on this site much more helpful than my pastor. But having said that he was helpful when I was trying to ruin my wife's affair. Unfortunately for you, your Husband is unlikely to care about what your pastor thinks.
I presume you have exposed your husbands affair to anyone who can have an influence on his behaviour?
My pastor is absolutely pro-marriage, don't get me wrong, but given the things that I've told her, she doesn't see him wanting to work it out. She wouldn't push him for divorce, but she hasn't given me any advice on how to stop the divorce either, so I'm assuming she'll be that way with him. But I don't know that for a fact. She's mainly there to listen and give advice, but not really counsel, in a sense. She knows that I want to save the marriage, her thinking (which is correct) is not to push him into coming back. But I don't think she really knows of any way to make him want to come back, so she's preparing me. I would hope that if he talks to her, she would urge him to see all the benefits of our marriage, but I don't know. She's told me that if he went and talked to her, she would see what he has to say and go from there.
I need to see her before he does so she will work with me.
And yes, I have exposed to EVERYONE we know and to OW's mother and boyfriend. WH doesn't understand why I felt the need (and I didn't know how to explain it, so I did look kind of dumb when he asked me why I did it).
I don't think the A has stopped and he's not going to stop it. I would like to talk him into stopping it for at least a little while, in order for him to figure out what he wants, but he thinks he wants her, so he's not going to do that. Don't know what else to do.
Pio doesn't permit members in his thread if they have no vowels in their user name.
Absolutely not true. No rules against posting. I just ignore posts made by people with no vowels - but others read them so there's no problem.
I don't have any particular reasons for slighting people with no vowels. But we all have to live by rules. I have a vowel thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Odd that you mention it. To be honest I had been dreading the Marathon Uno idea. Uno is not a problem but Marathon Uno is a minimum of 20 games by definition. My main problem with this (I am not joking) is that DDs have "Barbie" Uno. I have purchased 5 other diffrenet Uno decks in various languages and themes. The latest is, of course, Mickey Uno. But the DDs insist on playing Barbie Uno. Now the number 5 and number 0 cards in Barbie Uno feature Ken the Lifeguard. I hate those cards. They remind me of OM. I have often thought of removing them from the deck. Maybe I will.
Anyway, we went to the store in Khobar this AM. I admit I had not been excited about that because the traffic in Khobar is very bad and very dangerous. It never occurred to me that this is Ramadan. The streets were deserted. The Muslims, of course, are all sleeping all day long. So the trip was quite pleasant. Then we went to Ace Hardware to get a new sprinkler. I also bought me some new extension cords - 12 AWG! - and I am stoked. I also really treated myself and got me a Conair personal grooming kit I have been eyeing for months.
Since the hamster store didn't open till 10:30 AM (being Ramadan and all we were lucky it opened before 8:00PM - providence was smiling on me) we had 15 minutes to kill so we went into Toys R Us (right in front of the hamster store) and I got a Full Speed Mini Cooper Electric Power Road Racing Set. I thought this would occupy the girls all day and save me from Uno. I thought it was cool too. We got back home and, of course, they wanted to play slot cars immediately. I spent the next 2 hours putting the thing together. We almost don't have anough room upstairs to put it but I found a place it just fit. Well after 2 hours of this, a beer really would have hit the spot. Too bad. Then I realized that, of course, it was 220V so then I had to make another transformer to go from 120 to 220 (another disadvantage to living here). I finally got it running and showed the DDs how it worked and I told them that they needed to practice and learn to control the speed of the cars on the curves and the loops and that I was not going to spend the entire afternoon helping them. It was strictly going to be trial-and-error. Right. All afternoon - DADDY! DADDY! My car doesn't work. DADDY! DADDY! My car keeps flying off the track. DADDY! DADDY!...At one point I thought of keeping a spreadsheet of how many times they yelled "DADDY!".
So I went outside and put out the new sprinkler and then went into the garage to work out (the next best thing to beer on a hard day). DDs decided they wanted to play in the sprinkler. So I'm trying to work out. DADDY! DADDY! Valeria is spraying me! Well, you get the idea. Even after all that I could not escape Marathon Uno. And somehow I happened to get every 0 and 5 in the deck every single time!!!
Finally about 6:30PM DD1 got mad because DD2 kept giving her +2 and +4 cards and DD1 was not winning many games (she hates to lose at Uno - anything for that matter) so she quit. No complaints from me. I made them dinner and I was beat so I told them they could stay up and play but I was going to lie down. I fell instantly asleep. I slept great for an hour and then felt a tug and I heard "Daddy, are you asleep?". So much for that. So I installed them to watch Stuart Little. They asked if they could stay up all night. I said sure of course they could. Why not? They can't last past 8:30 PM anyway. And that's what happened.
Now that they are asleep, I am going to hunt down the Uno deck and remove the 0's and 5's right this second.
she chose her name...and I will respect it....unlike our Australian camarade...LOL...because I think stph is in enough trouble.....although a vowel somewhere in there would have helped
Let's try and remember that the poor guy spends his entire life upside down. Must be tough with the blood always rushing to your head.
And to add insult to injury, those Australians created a hole in the ozone layer over themselves.
* u can't talk WS into anything...best advice given to me by Pio...be consistent in what you do and say and ignore anything he says cuz it's babble...there is NO rational or explainations that will clear the fog...time and consistent application of MB principles are the key
*u said you don't need him but u want him...act accordingly, let him see ur independence and confidence in urself...no begging, questioning, interrogating, nagging, relationship talk etc. (I too struggle here as I am a supreme stormtrooper interrogater with no patience who wants to cut straight to the problems...the WS never respond well to this approach...go figure)
*it isn't just reading...it is applying the principles of what you read...much harder
*when you want to resort to questioning or relationship talk think of Pio and sing Small World to urself or think of Todd with the rabbit...anything to divert your urge
*in all business, finance aspects prepare for D...don't advertise this to WS, keep it to urself but get ready so he can't pull rug out from under you...no matter what the outcome you will thrive...you are way far ahead of most in a short period
*u say u have forgiven H but I believe it maybe too soon to make this claim...u r just on the surface of the moat, once you start plunging under you see alot more garbage to address...it is a choice we all make and maybe I am wrong to doubt you but...
*bitterness and resentment accumulate over time
OK, now I have not reached any successes in my M over the past months on this site, however has I not utilized the expertise of these folks I would have already been divorced, damaged my children beyond current damage, hated myself and felt like a failure
I now know I don't need WS to be happy or feel secure; look better than ever and am starting to rediscover who I really am...spent so many years afraid to upset WS and keep the peace that I stuffed all the good and fun stuff down inside and really had no idea who I was, what I liked or wanted besides my kids of course; if nothing else, this trip has brought me a new identity, greater appreciation of life, closer relationship to God, my children and my mother...even if D happens, the journey has already been worth it
NO SF. Damn right I play hardball. I understand from what you have written you love SF. Get a vibrator Stef. I hear the Rabbit one is particularly good.
Any other hot tips for the ladies BK??? Have you been conducting research on this topic???
I empathize with all the kid drama...lots of the same here but as annoying as it can be at times it is equally fun...I try to remember that each opportunity is one to create wonderful childhood memories...
OK, so 50% of the time I am shouting out orders to kids who no matter what time you start getting them ready (school, soccer, church, anything on a schedule) can always end up waiting to the last second for something or forget something
I have the morning routine down to a science with the rise and shine routine, packing lunches, getting backpacks all fixed, making sure everything is signed and all the extra projects, fundraisers etc are all in place and YET...there is always a glitch...1 of the 3 will "lose shoes" or misplace assignment notebook or disappear at the exacat moment the bus pulls up:) This morning they were amazed that I hadn't started barking orders...I had explained that this is only necessary during the last 5-10 minutes if they aren't on task...do they have the faintest idea????
Did I mention the pet trauma we had this week? Short story...dog looses part of ear 30 min before I must leave...house looks like crime scene from dog with 1/2 ear shaking hemorrhaging head all over the house...managed to stop bleeding, treat topically and crate dog so that my high school aged baby sitter could keep it all together for the next 5 hours...it was a success...never dull moment in my abode...top that one!
Hey 2Much...... I was a little confused by this......
Quote
my high school aged baby sitter looses part of ear 30 min before I must leave...house looks like crime scene from baby sitter with 1/2 ear shaking hemorrhaging head all over the house...managed to stop bleeding, treat topically and crate baby sitter so that my dog could keep it all together for the next 5 hours...it was a success...never dull moment in my abode...top that one!
I think you should go back and edit your last post. Maybe I'm wrong.
You mentioned a few posts back that you harbored zero bitterness/resentment re: some past childhood issues that were major...it is none of my business and I don't know you personally but I would appreciate if you could tell me how you have managed this.
Y I ask is that my H has had major past issues that he has compartmentalized and repressed and swears that he just put it away and moved on...these are HUGE issues that I feel have shaped everything about how he deals with life, relationships, trust etc and he insists not dealing with it is in effect dealing with it
I realize I can't force him to confront his demons but I feel that my M can never fully recover (if it is even an option) without him dealing with these fundamental issues that have shaped his entire life
Sooooooooooo, from your personal experience do you not see a connection from what you endured and how it has shaped you today? If it was negative and abusive how can you not be bitter or resentful...have you forgiven? If so, what is the difference btwn forgiving that and WW?
If I am probing to deep just send me some lyrics to shut me up!
Hi 2much, stph, Todd, Pio, Larousse, luna, believer, bigk, sorry to those I missed.
I finally got called for substituting. My guess is the shine has worn off the newness of this year & the kids & it's time for mental health days.
Todd, the central web site idea is a good one & exists for two dimensional artists. It's a place where artist pay a yearly fee & can post a certain number of pictures. It's frequented by people looking for images; advertisers, illustrators, people wanting a particular image to represent something. I don't know the specifics of payment but I think it depends on the use.
For me, as a three demensional artist, I don't sell an image but a product. Much of my work is inexpensive compared to painters or photographers & expensive to ship. I have a website but I stopped selling from it & use it now as a place to send people to see my work. Well, in theory that is, I don't maintain it so it's looking very stale. Even the pictures I posted aren't on it & there old. Of course my newer work is more fantabulous.
What appeals to me about working with a representative is my focus gets to stay on the work not on finding places to sell or what sells best where. A dream unlikely to come true.
Forget about those other artists Todd, they all talk funny. Some are French. Thank you for complimenting my work.
Todd, I think it's perfectly reasonable to D your wife right this very minute because she prewashes dishes going into the dishwaher. I have gone around on this issue with my family & it's a no win just like which way the toilet paper comes off the role. Dolts prewash BTW.
Thank you larousse for your nice comments on my work. I know what you mean about having to quit your job to stay current with this thread. The problems is it's an addiction. You know, like tequila. You want to find out what's happened to whom & it takes forever to wade through it all. I go to bed hoping people will have had the good grace to do the same or go outside & play so there's not so much catching up to do.
LOL on your thread philosophy...I completely agree! So, are you onto your next tequila pursuit??? It helps wading thru the thread to sip a nice cocktail...it least that's what I've heard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Oh my, 2much, my ex has some huge issues from his past that he has said exactly the same thing about. He swears these things are not factors, that he's dealt with them & they have no influence, now or in the past in shaping him.
Your 100% right you can't force him to deal with these issue, I know, I tried.
2much, I'd be happy to arm chair psychologist my ex's issue & how they screwed him up if that would hep you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
You mentioned a few posts back that you harbored zero bitterness/resentment re: some past childhood issues that were major...it is none of my business and I don't know you personally but I would appreciate if you could tell me how you have managed this.
Hi 2much, I grew up in a tough neighborhood. Things happen in such neighborhoods. One such incident was that a friend and I were grabbed by an older group of guys who basically staked us to the ground and began beating us with anything they could get their hands on. They finally let us go. I did not tell my Dad because he would have literally killed them. I did tell my brother who was similar age to the guys who did this. He took care of things. And no, he didn't kill them. Some things are worse than death. This incident affected me for many years. And more incidents as well.
If I can make an analogy here, when you grow up poor, you don't know you are poor because everyone else is also. At some point, and for me it was junior high, you get exposed to others who are not poor and it hits home. Similarly, the same goes for living in a rough and troubled neighborhood. I didn't know any different. It takes a while to process certain things and in my mid to late twenties, my background began haunting me. I was bitter as could be. I felt sorry for myself. I dwelled on "why me?". I began my own form of therapy. When I had a negative thought about my background, I wrote it down. I would also jot down my "justification" for feeling that way. Then, in the next column, I listed sensible, common-sense alternatives to my faulty thinking. Bottom line is that I gradually pulled myself out of an attitude nosedive. I have to credit WW for help in this area as well. She helped me focus on some things to which I was blind.
Most people with whom I grew up are either dead, in prison or are bums. What made me different? Two things: intelligence and drive. Intelligence courtesy of my Mom and I, for some crazy reason, was born with drive. Once I got over the emotional hump, my life was great. Getting over the hump takes awareness and realization. Life is not fair. It never was and never will be. Things just are. The incident I related happened to me, but it wasn’t about me. My friend and I were convenient that’s all. Nothing personal. It felt personal at the time, but it wasn’t. And my brother’s revenge against those guys was not personal. And least not to them. Nothing ever bothered my Brother until Vietnam. He won the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart and threw both in the trash can. To this day, he cannot and will not talk about it. As far as I know, the neighborhood stuff never bothered him. And as for the guys who did this to me and my friend, I have and never will forgive them. What they did was unforgivable. But I have put it behind me and moved on.
It sounds comical but it was a big issue that I didn't prewash the dishes. I never gave in to the lunacy of pre-washing.
Rob prewashes all the dishes before they go in the dishwasher. I bought a garlic press that was specially dishwasher proof and he won't allow it in the dishwasher. Also, DS and I apparently don't know how to load a dishwasher and he reloads it after we've put dishes in it.
Todd, I think it's perfectly reasonable to D your wife right this very minute because she prewashes dishes going into the dishwaher. I have gone around on this issue with my family & it's a no win just like which way the toilet paper comes off the role. Dolts prewash BTW.
Hi tams,
I am reasonably sure that I read this in SAA. What is so crazy is that we put the top of the line Bosch DW in our home. It heats the water to 161 degrees and had a food disposer built in.
Quote
Todd, the central web site idea is a good one & exists for two dimensional artists. It's a place where artist pay a yearly fee & can post a certain number of pictures. It's frequented by people looking for images; advertisers, illustrators, people wanting a particular image to represent something. I don't know the specifics of payment but I think it depends on the use.
For me, as a three demensional artist, I don't sell an image but a product. Much of my work is inexpensive compared to painters or photographers & expensive to ship. I have a website but I stopped selling from it & use it now as a place to send people to see my work. Well, in theory that is, I don't maintain it so it's looking very stale. Even the pictures I posted aren't on it & there old. Of course my newer work is more fantabulous.
This is an excellent point. But isn't pottery sold on the internet every day? I see your point but if someone likes your work, I think most would go ahead and buy. No?
And oh, I finally heard back from that Picasso guy. He is not interested but is referring me to his daughter. I think her name is pigeon or something like that.
Gawd Kiwi, a husband who puts dishes in the dishwasher! Next time around I want one of them. He can rearrange my undie drawer too if he feels like I don't organize it properly. At least I'd know how he felt about it.
Also, DS and I apparently don't know how to load a dishwasher and he reloads it after we've put dishes in it.
Lol. You know, you can tell a lot about a person's mind by how they load the dishwasher. I am quite serious. Take my aforementioned SIL, please! She loaded our DW one day and I opened it to add another glass and almost fainted. It looked like it was loaded by a three year old. No rhyme and no reason. I emptied the dishwasher and redid it. Is that an OCD? Probably. When I load the DW, which I love to do (it is like putting a puzzle together. conversely, I hate unloading because it is so mechanical). My approach to loading the DW is very methodical and logical. Guess that is not surprising, huh?
Nams, we share most household duties, except carwashing and lawn mowing (he does those but he won't touch ironing). We both leave for work at 7.30am in the morning, I get home at 5.30pm, he gets home at 6.30pm. It only seems fair.
I am responsible for most of the cooking because I'm a good cook. He cleans up afterwards. But he cooks as well (sometimes), as does DS (but his meals are all vegan so there's only so many of those we can eat).
You will be surprised to learn that I squeeze the tube wherever I please. And I do not roll it up. It is an amorphus shape to begin with so why add structure when there is none?
I don't have a vowel and you don't ignore me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
20 has an "e" in it, if it's spelled out...so Stph20 does have a vowel in her name, even if only indirectly. I guess that exonerates Pio from the charge of inconsistency, which wasn't actually my original intention. Oh, well...
I'm off to the doctor for my appointment. Maybe he can give me a laxative prescription and eliminate my vowel stoppage.
Yes, it does. I explained a page or 6 back that when my son-in-law's affair saw the light of day, I would've turned him into fricaseed alien kabobs, if I'd only had enough electricity to do it...which would've made their subsequent recovery a lot more difficult, I think! Zz-z-z-z-z-zt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I also rinse everything immediately after use. For example, DD1 drinks chocolate milk every night before bed and DD2 drinks strawberry milk. I rinse the cups in the bathroom sink immediately because it takes half a second. If I wait until the morning, it takes about a minute. If I just place them in the dishwasher, it takes about an hour after-the-fact with hammer and chisel.
Prewashing, for me, is a time-savings.
But I guess I'm still a dolt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Shhh! Don't tell Pio his thread has 3 stars again.
As for loading the dishwasher in a methodical way, it is, of course, the right way to load. Anything else is a waste of space, water & electricity. Self evident. sheeesh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Kiwi, I don't own an iron. I used the one I had years ago for a craft project, ruined it & have gotten along quite well without it, thank you very much.
Todd, don't bother with Picasso's (why the two Ss larousse?) daughter, she speaks with a lisp & she probably speaks French.
I have sold things on the internet but packaging & shipping is expensive. So if I sell a piece at $100 & I tack on $15 that's not huge but add that onto a $35 piece & it's a bit much. I know I'd think twice. Plus, pottery is something I want to see & touch in person. One thing I love to see is when someone picks up my work & touches it & it moves them. That's priceless really.
A couple from CA bought a pitcher from me over the internet. It was very rewarding when they wrote back to tell me they loved it & it sat in a place of prominence in their home.
Don't worry Pio we love dolts! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Some rinsing is fine & indeed a time saver so don't beat yourself up over being...ah...anal. I'm sure I speak for EVERYONE here when I say we have room in our hearts for THAT type too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I forgot to mention the hamster. The pet store only had one and he was a cute little baby hamster. DD1 fell in love instantly. She stood outside for 10 minutes talking to it while waiting for the store to open. She had her upholstered hamster carrier with her all kitted out with food and water. We got the hamster and went home. I suggested that she get out the hamster fence and let it play on the kitchen floor with Frijolito and Pepito II. Well those guys are pretty big in comparison and, sure enough, they tag-teamed poor little Chuchito II and just beat the holy heck out of him. Poor little guy was scrambling for his life. We separated the hamster cages so Chuchito now has a bachelor pad. He is in training right now on his wheel trying to get into shape. The other two just stair at him from their cage with sparks flying from their beady little eyes. It's unfortunate.
BTW, if you have hamsters, here's a tip. I don't care how quiet the package says the wheel is, within a week it is going to keep you up all night. Hamsters only exercise at night. Long story short, I took out my wheel and bored the center to just larger than the size of a roller blade wheel bearing. I installed Kryptonics bearings. I abraded the OD of the bearings to get a rough surface and then epoxied them into the wheel centers. After drying, I put in plenty of grape oil and put them back in the cages. Even after about 8 months, they are still whisper quiet.
Be careful on selection of bearing speed. Mine are the fastest Kryptonics makes. Now most hamsters will run a bit and then stop. Mine used to do that too. When they did, the wheel would keep spinning taking the hamster with it for several revolutions. This made them very dizzy. Now they have learned to slow down before stopping. This is probably healthier for them anyway since they now have a "cool down" period.
I don't know why somebody hasn't patented this idea. It is simple and effective.
WW made that same comment. Not because of the cleaning but because she saw one at the Sears outlet here that was prettier.
I agree it was nice but it cost about $900 and the one I have is free. I can complain about it and they will replace it. I might complain 30 or 40 times and they will replace it every time. I might eventually get one that cleans better. But each time I will have to keep the windows and doors open for three days to try to remove the pungent odor of ripe and rampant BO.
And the BO issue has been thoroughly discussed before.
Looks like we are veering dangerously close to mechanical chit chat. Watch the womens scatter...shhh, hear that? It's the sounds of beautifully pedicured feet running away.
My friend, if you can afford to buy tubes of toothpaste and only use half to keep quiet in the house, you can afford a new Bosch DW. It alone will keep the house quiet. You will also save on water and electricity.
And for the record, toothpaste is a thixotropic fluid.
So is ketchup. It really does make a difference to shake the bottle because it reduces the viscosity when the fluid is under shear. To avoid a mess, I bang the bottle on the side rather than the bottom. Squeezy bottles haven't gotten here yet.
I went to school a lot of years to learn how to get ketchup out of a bottle BTW.
But not of the tonsils. Nobody's EVER accused me of that! In fact, when I was a child, one of the other teachers at the mission school accused my dad of having me vaccinated with a phonograph needle instead of the regular kind. I would've been insulted, but I was busy talking at the time.
Ah... no. I don't think that has ever been suggested t&l. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Pio, those poor freaking little hamsters. It's a wonder they even want to use their wheel. It must be like a nightmare for them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I will be signing out at 5.00pm for 2 days. My computer monitor at home is being repaired and I will be computerless for TWO WHOLE DAYS.
A Bosch would be far more expensive. Since it is a German brand, I would have to buy it in the USA and freight it, pay customs, etc. If I bought it here, it would be the wrong voltage.
I guess German things are naturally quiet. They sure snuck up on the French alot.
My water and electricity is free of charge. I tried doing a ROI calculation but I keep getting an error. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I saw that about the sauce bottles on the Discovery channel. So I didn't even need to go to school to learn about viscosity.
Doesn't really matter - with squeezy bottles, I realize that my education is obsolete anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Ya know, I've been thinking...again. This whole fog and babble thing would a whole lot easier to believe if the WS's actually had, like, a different voice or something. A special WS voice a normal S voice. Wouldn't that be fun? Then I wouldn't be so confused because he'd be using the WS voice and I would know it and I wouldn't listen to him.
But good twin and evil twin...they're too much the same and I don't like it. It makes it hard when they look the same, talk the same and everything is the same!
Well, BigK grounded me from any relationship talk (and SF!!) for a week, so I should be OK...I'll think of Pio singing Small World when I talk to WH next time.
And I can't forgive him yet, apparently, but I'm not holding it against him...yet. Still waiting for the anger to hit.
And I agree with you...I am (kind of) glad this has happened. I've found I've got friends and family and a support system all around me that I could never have imagined. Obviously, I wish he hadn't cheated on me, but maybe this was supposed to happen for me to figure out who I was, that I am more than a wife, who my friends are, how much I am loved by those around me, and to get closer to God.
Sometimes, it gets easier to believe that I will be OK, if divorce does happen.
This is how I feel tonight. I'm sure I'll be all over the place again tomorrow...sigh.
I'll accept that. I won't agree to the rest of your statement - but I'll buy this part.
Quote
Sometimes, it gets easier to believe that I will be OK, if divorce does happen.
After a while, you begin to detach youself emotionally from the WS. It is natural and the only way to survive.
Quote
And I can't forgive him yet, apparently, but I'm not holding it against him...yet. Still waiting for the anger to hit.
I guess that is what people are trying to tell you. Only after you have reached the acceptance stage of grief will you be in a position to forgive. Don't worry about forgiveness right now. Your time will come and you can decide then.
If I bought it here, it would be the wrong voltage.
And before you say "hellooo, tap into the oven circuit", I will use transformers or 220V circuits on many things but not on motors with pumps attached to them. If you take into account the affinity laws and the fact that the motor would operate at 60 Hz rather than 50 Hz, the increased load relation of pump HP requirement to motor load rating increases by the square of the speed ratio. So it is obvious that I would be overloading the motor at 60 Hz regardless of the voltage. Come on! puhleeeze!
What I need from WW in order to forgive her is to see genuine remorse and regret for her affair. I have not seen anything close to that. When she has done that, I will forgive. If that is not forgiveness, then fine. I don't really care. It is the way I approach it and it works for me.
I find it very interesting that in SAA the entitled biatch NEVER expressed remorse or asked forgiveness. Certainly I sure wanted to see this from my FWW. We were about 6 months into recovery before I knew she really got it.
Late on today - My eldest son just graduated high school. Very emotional day.
because God doesn't usually lay all his cards on the table. He is a great poker player and always wins. The Bible only says that all things work together for good. It never says God has to explain why.
because God doesn't usually lay all his cards on the table. He is a great poker player and always wins. The Bible only says that all things work together for good. It never says God has to explain why.
HUH?
I'm not looking for an explanation from God, I'm saying that maybe this needed to happen to me in order to figure out who I am. A wake up call, if you will.
I'm not looking for an explanation from God, I'm saying that maybe this needed to happen to me in order to figure out who I am. A wake up call, if you will.
Okay but that could have happened in other ways. Do you think God had WH commit sin just to get your attention? Doesn't work that way. Do you believe God wanted your marriage destroyed just to get your attention?
Sometimes I think like you do. Sometimes I think maybe all this happened so I would find this website, link up with a poor German woman and help convince her not to jump off a balcony in Kuwait. I don't know why this happened and it doesn't matter. A lot of good can come out of it. Maybe things lie in your road ahead that will be impacted by this event in your life right now. I don't know.
You're right, it could have happened in other ways, but we don't know God's plan. Maybe He knew this was the only way to get me to realize that we didn't have a healthy marriage, by slapping me in the face. The sin was not God's doing, but maybe He used it so I would wake up and seek Him and learn about myself. And I don't know yet that my marriage is destroyed...maybe God saw how destructful it was and is using this to make it better...I don't know, these are just my guesses.
All I know is that by having to deal with this has brought me closer to God, by praying for the strength to handle all of this, for guidance in what's best for me and WH, and to help save my marriage.
I'm not trying to analyze anything, I think everything that I have learned from all of this is a very good thing.
It's going to make me a better wife, a better friend and overall a better person.
No it's OK Stef - I made a joke that was misunderstood. You don't sound like you blame yourself at all any more!! I was just emphasising for Pio's benefit that it was a joke. That's all.
Todd, I tried to cook whole grain rice and the results were, er, how to say it, let's say the original intention didn't match the results. There goes my new habit of good nutritive cooking.
Congrats BK, you emotional? Can't imagine that !
Pio, the hamster story is great, you could do a short story with that. Well, it's there, just some polishing.
About men and tools: The first time I really saw love for me in the eyes of BF was when I handed him a can of WM-40 to clean the bycicle; he couldn't believe I had bought it on my own. Hey, we have Costco too.
Another time he was repairing the dush and wanted to buy teflon tape and I told him I had already. I got a passionate kiss for that.
Finally he asked me to help him to take away the plaster of a wall. I covered my hair, sit in a chair in front of the wall, took the hammer and the other tool and did the lower half. He even took a picture. That day he realized we may be compatible. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
No it's OK Stef - I made a joke that was misunderstood. You don't sound like you blame yourself at all any more!! I was just emphasising for Pio's benefit that it was a joke. That's all.
I'm really doing so well today.
I'm glad you're doing well today.
I'm so confused...
When you grounded me from relationship talk, does that mean ALL relationship talk?
Don't worry Stph, periodically Todd and BK wonder if they have been to rude to the women on the thread. First BK gave a sui generis welcome to T&L and now he wondered if you didn't understand his joke. I think you did, and Pio was only pulling his leg of course
When you grounded me from relationship talk, does that mean ALL relationship talk?
All relationship talk Stef.
What you need to do is make home a warm and inviting place for your husband. You wast to meet his EN's - what are they BTW? You do NOT want to be having R talks and pissing him off - I can't say it plainer than that. He is in an active affair Stef. You are wasting your time tal;king about your relationsgip and pissing him off and withdrawing even more love units. You cannot afford these withdrawals. Your account in his love bank is almost empty.
When you grounded me from relationship talk, does that mean ALL relationship talk?
All relationship talk Stef.
What you need to do is make home a warm and inviting place for your husband. You wast to meet his EN's - what are they BTW? You do NOT want to be having R talks and pissing him off - I can't say it plainer than that. He is in an active affair Stef. You are wasting your time tal;king about your relationsgip and pissing him off and withdrawing even more love units. You cannot afford these withdrawals. Your account in his love bank is almost empty.
Damn, I was too busy at work to do the questionnaire. I'll do it tomorrow..at the very least, I'll have it done by the time I talk to him next, I promise!
I don't want to withdraw love units, I want to deposit lots and lots of them! How do I do that? Never mind, I'll do the quiz.
My only thought was showing him this site and seeing what he has to say about it, not the forum, because this is my safe haven, but teaching him all this stuff. It's too soon isn't it? I know it. Why can't I do Plan B yet?
Stef - you can't do Plan B because so far you have sucked at Plan A
You have to do a credible Plan A before even considering Plan B - do you understand what Plan B is? Plan B looks a lot like divorce - NO CONTACT with WH. You aren't there yet.
Jen - you disappeared for 2 whole days with no explanation but yet you wanna explain about 1.5 hours? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
It is incredibly warm here as well Jen. I was actually referring to that little country too BTW.
BigK, all I can say is that if you'd been a FWS and said that you would now have the wrath of the whole board AND the moderators down on you right now.
Could almost throw a stone from Aussie to NZ. On a clear day you can almost see it (Kidding). It's close. NZ is small and insignificant. Australia is much larger
Jen I know how poorly it is received here on MB - I have been around for a while now. If I was in any way serious I would be boiled in oil even as a BS.
Lol Kiwi, I was more thinking in writing about the spoken person. My older brother is spoken person, or media man, for a politician and I feel his talent is wasted. I work as a free lance and sometimes the amount of work has more to do with PR. I guess as Nam, I want to concentrate on working an let the PR to someone else. Hey, thinking about it Murdoch invented a solution or a solution was invented in part to protect writers from Murdoch, I don't remember, Syndicated writers and journalists.
I just knew that Pio would find some way of making the wheel go faster so those poor little hamsters would have to work.
Why are you interested in New Caledonia? (Just being nosey here) It is French and yes, people seem to be very happy there. People from NZ go there a lot for holidays (vacations). A lot of Pacific Islands have a lot of internal problems but New Caledonia is never in the news.
You don't need to do a monologue. I'm here. Rob is cooking dinner tonight though and it is nearly ready. Chili con carne but not the real one. (Don't tell anyone, but the sauce is from a packet).
I don't want to buy a new monitor. I have a perfectly good monitor that is currently being repaired. Which means it's not a perfectly good monitor but let's not be picky.
No way could I get a monitor of any type or size for US$30 (which is about NZ$60 I think).
If we all weren't suffering from infidelity, I would be laughing. Some comments just trigger me. That did. Kind of like "you deserved the A". I don't know. I got an email once from a very respected (male) poster here and he used a word to describe OM. He meant that word one way but I took it another. I almost filed for divorce over that word. I had a huge fight with gemela over that word. You just never know what will trigger you.
I got triggered by 0's and 5's in the Barbie Uno deck. As I was taking them out last night, I realized that the reverse cards, wild cards and +4 cards also show Ken. You can't play Uno without those cards so I took his face off with my dremel tool and put the cards back in the deck.
I was just curious to know how far New Caledonia is from you. There was a Caledonian Cafe owner here in Mexico city and used to say that to get to NC from MX it took him 48 hrs.
Ah, today I bought a kiwi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I had stoped buyung them because the store sold them packed for a while but now once again you can select them.
Kiwi if your DD visit Mx city I could recomend her a good hotel, almost, for 30 dls and I would gladly take them to the closest pyramids in Teotihuacan.
Larousse, I don't think they'll get that far but thank you anyway.
They speak French in Nouvelle Caledonie.
OM has the same name as DD's b/f. It makes for some very uncomfortable conversations. I have to say DD's name first as I can't start a sentence with b/f's name. I call him by his nickname mostly.
could you give some letucce tea to that poor hamster, so he can relax?
I have him on Mega Mass 4000 but I cut the amount in half. I have him on supplements of about 2000 calories a day with 120 grams of protein. I'll have him bulked up in no time.
It was sad to see one hamster hold him down while the other climbed the fence and then did a back drop on his abdomen. Brutal would be too kind.
I'm not sure what it is but I am having a really bad day. I am not going to post what I am thinking. Maybe it was grinding Ken's face off the Barbie cards - I don't know.
I just need to stop thinking about this for a while. I'm sure it will go away.
stph20,
I forgot to mention. Keep your WH away from this site. He is no where near ready to benefit from it and he will only use it against you in his current state. If WH decides to go NC, then discuss whether to bring him to MB.
After Pluto was "declassified" as a planet, I wondered on these pages how this would affect my horoscope and more generally, worried about the havoc it would create for astrologers. Well, Yahoo featured a letter from a concerned citizen to Yahoo's astrolger person in which that quesiton was asked. The astrolgoer assured the writer that no, Pluto still counted even though it is a whirling block of ice instead of a planet. The A's logic was that heavenly bodies other than planets are used in astrology, specifically the Sun and the Moon.
Okay fine, but if they are going to include all heavenly bodies, what about the other whirling blocks of ice that were gong to be added to the roster of planets if Pluto kept is designation? Why don't they include those? It's the missing link in astrology.
Thanks for sharing...looks like you have a bit of a psychiatrist within to be able to have identified and worked through those issues so independently and pretty much in the same exact way a counselor or psychiatrist would.
So you are pretty much the whole package...what is your WW #, I must give her the 411...you haven't mentioned she was deaf, dumb and blind so I'm guessing she is not????
You are a quick study! You may feel differently in an hour. I myself am having a bad moment. H and I agreed yesterday to try things like AA...one hour/day at a time...it was my suggestion to try and be open/honest/loving and no R talk and take 1 day at time...he agreed. I am second guessing this agreement since it was my idea and my terms and not his...kinda like the one with the addiction has to want it and acknowledge it and verbalize it on there own. So I wonder if trying this is just a waste since even though he agreed it was not his idea. He made an effort to be affectionate yesterday but of course I want everything fixed NOW just like everyone else.
I keep arguing with myself that this is a waste and I should just cut my losses and pursue D. My DS who I didn't think was very perceptive was talking to me about the 10 commandments and when we got to not coveting neighbors wife he didn't understand...I went on to explain it was about wanting other women when you are married...he went on to say that is what dad does right? He said I needed to tell dad it was a sin...I told him that dad knows and that is between him and God. DS said he was going to talk to his dad about this...I suggested he not unless the subject came up since it is not a child's place to tell a parent they are misbehaving. He asked why does dad do this...I told him that dad was confused and not sure if he still loved or wanted to be with mom. DS asked why he stays and I explained that it was because he wanted to be with him and DDs...DS went on to tell me that maybe dad is using you...
What do you say to that? I thought he was pretty much in the dark about the dynamics of the M issues aside from dad likes to spend time with other women which is what was shared with all kids months ago when D was very close to happening...
I'm afraid if I keep working and waiting that my kids will be exposed to way to much. However, the literature reflects there will be more and worse damage if we D.
Sorry...as you can see, we all have the same types of emotional reactions and ups/downs...the vary in intensity, frequency and duration but they are there.
WW and I had talked earlier in the week and agreed to have dinner tonight after she got off work. Then Sunday, I had planned to finally have the "talk" I had been delaying. She just called and said that on Fridays, she and a group from work get together for drinks. I told her no problem, we can meet up after that. Her response was that she didn't know because it could be late.
Okay, I know. I set myself up for this one. I did. She has to know how this looks to me. The only question is which OM is she seeing, right?
Stef - you can't do Plan B because so far you have sucked at Plan A
You have to do a credible Plan A before even considering Plan B - do you understand what Plan B is? Plan B looks a lot like divorce - NO CONTACT with WH. You aren't there yet.
I do know what Plan B is and I feel like I'm ready for it.
If we all weren't suffering from infidelity, I would be laughing. Some comments just trigger me. That did. Kind of like "you deserved the A". I don't know. I got an email once from a very respected (male) poster here and he used a word to describe OM. He meant that word one way but I took it another. I almost filed for divorce over that word. I had a huge fight with gemela over that word. You just never know what will trigger you.
I got triggered by 0's and 5's in the Barbie Uno deck. As I was taking them out last night, I realized that the reverse cards, wild cards and +4 cards also show Ken. You can't play Uno without those cards so I took his face off with my dremel tool and put the cards back in the deck.
I understand now, and like I said, if it had been the night before, or any other day when I was throwing myself a pity party, I would have taken serious offense (I am thin-skinned anyway).
But, once again, thanks for having my back.
How do you explain holes in UNO cards to your kids?
You are a quick study! You may feel differently in an hour. I myself am having a bad moment. H and I agreed yesterday to try things like AA...one hour/day at a time...it was my suggestion to try and be open/honest/loving and no R talk and take 1 day at time...he agreed. I am second guessing this agreement since it was my idea and my terms and not his...kinda like the one with the addiction has to want it and acknowledge it and verbalize it on there own. So I wonder if trying this is just a waste since even though he agreed it was not his idea. He made an effort to be affectionate yesterday but of course I want everything fixed NOW just like everyone else.
I keep arguing with myself that this is a waste and I should just cut my losses and pursue D. My DS who I didn't think was very perceptive was talking to me about the 10 commandments and when we got to not coveting neighbors wife he didn't understand...I went on to explain it was about wanting other women when you are married...he went on to say that is what dad does right? He said I needed to tell dad it was a sin...I told him that dad knows and that is between him and God. DS said he was going to talk to his dad about this...I suggested he not unless the subject came up since it is not a child's place to tell a parent they are misbehaving. He asked why does dad do this...I told him that dad was confused and not sure if he still loved or wanted to be with mom. DS asked why he stays and I explained that it was because he wanted to be with him and DDs...DS went on to tell me that maybe dad is using you...
What do you say to that? I thought he was pretty much in the dark about the dynamics of the M issues aside from dad likes to spend time with other women which is what was shared with all kids months ago when D was very close to happening...
I'm afraid if I keep working and waiting that my kids will be exposed to way to much. However, the literature reflects there will be more and worse damage if we D.
Sorry...as you can see, we all have the same types of emotional reactions and ups/downs...the vary in intensity, frequency and duration but they are there.
Thanks for sharing...how awful that you had to have a conversation like that with your DS! I am really glad I don't have kids now so I never have to explain to them what their dad did.
I know I'm not the only one who is suffering, but everyone here seems to be holding it together a he!! of a lot better than I am.
I can't ever just "forget" about it, it's on my mind constantly...not even the A, but the fact that he wants a divorce...I just can't get past that.
I am at the next level and believe me I struggle to keep it together...I am having an awful day of it today but am being very productive...one benefit of the stress...
I am trying some anger management techniques...smashed a gift that was given to me by H that I would put my life on was a regifted gift from a women to him...it felt very satisfying but was a tease...it opened up my floodgates and I am livid
I am trying to decide if I want to continue this and if I even want him...of course I doubt he even entertains that as a possibility...I am sick to my stomach and will cry at the drop of a coin today...
I am prepping my home to sell in the next 8-10 months if D so I have plenty to do but none of it seems to occupy the mind...
I am afraid that even if I forgive I will not forget and as far as I know nothing has changed in his private life, if it has there is no way for me to know...I don't think he is capable of changing or maybe he just doesn't want to change...
I am struggling with what I am going to do...I know in my head what I need to do...just need to do it
I went to the bank this morning and closed both of our joint accounts and opened one in just my name. It may not sound like a big deal, but it was a little emotional. At the same time, it gave me strength, because I can be on my own and I'm going to show him that. Amazing the insight you get from a checking account, huh?
My anger management was similiar to yours...when he left the first time, I took all of our pictures off the walls and dropped them on the floor. Only one frame broke, but it was one of our wedding pictures. I put them back up when he came home and wanted to work it out, and when he moved out this time, I was calm enough to take them down and just put them in the closet. But it didn't hurt to look at them like it did the first time. Maybe the shock had worn off.
Are you in Plan B? How long have you been dealing with this?
I found strength I didn't even know I had, and truthfully, I still doubt that I have it.
You'll find your strength. Look in your heart. It's there, I promise.
If you haven't already, I encourage you to meet with an attorney in an attempt to understand your rights and obligations. Bigger, who is noticeably absent, likes to say to pray for sunshine but prepare for rain. So, while you continue Plan A, seeing an attorney can help protect you if you decide to go to Plan D. I did this but should have done it sooner. I learned some very interesting things.
I wrote you the longest most heartfelt and honest post...as luck would have it my server died...I had copied it but lost my entire connection and had to reboot...it was really long anyway.
To answer your questions. No plan B...tried to have him leave in June for plan B but refused to leave
Dealing with WS for 10 yr but was in denial and using hope as a plan for past 9.5 years...Mar 06 started a sequence of D-days since there are mult OWs not just a 1 A guy...likes the thrill of the hunt and moves on...plan A since Mar 06 but didn't do it right for first 3 months since I constantly asked Q's and was visibly hurt and upset...was in great position in late July and strong enough to make real move when involved in trauma with kids and have had a hard time garnering the strength and courage to face reality...
Somethings got to give and I'm thinking it will be my move that determines what ...wouldn't you eat cake all day too if you could? I am the human doormat and I need to start doing something about it whether H likes it or not...trying to get through my Liars book which is actually fantastic...I have nothing but time until spring so I need to get my act together, see a lawyer, make my own plan for D and press...
If a miracle happens btwn now and spring then perhaps I'll change course but for now I have my actions focused on D
H will have to do some backflips and chasing now...I have only one more day left in September Pio...then our deal is over and out!
If you haven't already, I encourage you to meet with an attorney in an attempt to understand your rights and obligations. Bigger, who is noticeably absent, likes to say to pray for sunshine but prepare for rain. So, while you continue Plan A, seeing an attorney can help protect you if you decide to go to Plan D. I did this but should have done it sooner. I learned some very interesting things.
I met with an attorney this past Wednesday. She advised me to get together with WH and get him to agree to certain things (like our house and alimony mainly) and have him sign it. Kind of like a contract. I'm not filing, but she's going to keep it in her file if/when he does file.
BUT, BigK grounded me from talking to him for a week, so we'll have to go over things later when my grounding is over!
OTOH, he thinks we have to be separated for 6 months before he can file. I just found out that he doesn't, he could file now, under different grounds, but I didn't tell him that. It just buys me more time.
Somethings got to give and I'm thinking it will be my move that determines what ...wouldn't you eat cake all day too if you could? I am the human doormat and I need to start doing something about it whether H likes it or not...trying to get through my Liars book which is actually fantastic...I have nothing but time until spring so I need to get my act together, see a lawyer, make my own plan for D and press...
If a miracle happens btwn now and spring then perhaps I'll change course but for now I have my actions focused on D
But do you or WH want D? Has he said he wants to work on the M? So you still live together?
Do the EN thing. YES. Then you can do a proper Plan A.
OK, I did the EN thing. It was hard to do it for him though, without siding with myself--I was the perfect wife, you know...oh wait, he cheated on me...never mind.
But this is what I come up with for WH to the best of my ability:
So, what happens if, since I came up with this list, I do all of these things to the best of my ability, but I'm wrong? What if I'm doing the wrong thing in Plan A? Can that happen? Now, I'm freakin' out...why did I have to do this? He likes bubbly personalities, where on the list is that? It should be #1. I'm so confused...
And the first 2 of these, I can't even do!
I also went through my own EN's again: 1)Affection 2)Conversation 3)Sexual Fulfillment 4)Financial Support 5)Recreational Companionship
Can these change over time? How do you know when they do for either you or your spouse?
It seems to me your H has a very deep seated character flaw that isn't going to change in a hurry, if at all. However, my MB friend Faithful Follower has faced what you're facing, complete with an OC. Her H is finally getting it. It's been a long, long struggle for FF but she's perservered. I've told her more times than I can count to kick him to the curb but she's made of very strong stuff, although she'd probably disagree with me on that. I think you are too.
2much, I think you're in a situation where you live with how he is (impossible I think, and not recommended) or give Pio's deal one more day then make a decision.
Stph, it's very hard to guess what someone else's needs are. It's from wrong guessing that you'll be trying to meet a need that your H may not even see himself as having. Try expanding on the needs, like I did. Then you'll see how much of a need they really are.
Yes, needs do change over time. For example, a mother with young kids probably puts family and domestic support at the top but as the kids grow older this need changes. If you haven't read His Needs Her Needs you should.
When I first came to MB I printed all the articles that were applicable to our sitch out and put them in a binder. You really do need to read all the articles on the main site. They're very good.
I do have a lot of the articles printed, I just to get them organized and really study them!
I just started freaking out while doing the quiz, because I don't really know what went through his head while we were together. He's a typical guy, he didn't want to talk about his feelings and his way of dealing with things, were to not deal with them, which left me in the dark, or dealing with stuff all by myself.
OK Stef - Great you've done some work on identifying his needs. Plan A is meeting those needs as best you can. EXCEPT SF remember. The reason I don't want you talking relationships with him is it pisses him off and you can't do it without lovebusting him to death. Meet his needs as best you can. Make home a warm and inviting place. WHat does he like to do? Recreational Companionship? See if you can do it with him. Spend time with him having fun.
This is why I say your Plan A sucked and you are not ready for Plan B.
It seems to me your H has a very deep seated character flaw that isn't going to change in a hurry, if at all. However, my MB friend Faithful Follower has faced what you're facing, complete with an OC. Her H is finally getting it. It's been a long, long struggle for FF but she's perservered. I've told her more times than I can count to kick him to the curb but she's made of very strong stuff, although she'd probably disagree with me on that. I think you are too.
KiwiJ...thanks for hooking me up with FF. maybe she can give me some new view on things or personal advice since she may have more similiarities to my sitch...I keep bobbing but not sure how much before I begin circling the drain!
Right this minute I am in a good place, alone, sipping my wine, doing my work and just being me by my self...just feel like H missing out and I could be even happier if I was with someone who synergistically increased the fun and fulfillment factor exponentially...know what I mean?
Although I have not yet caught up with the thread...but I will soon....because my techie friend has managed to remove the 'trojan' from my home computer.....SIGH! It's good thing....was starting to get attached!
...am following 'Dancing with the Stars'.....this week I thought Mario and Karine's tango...although hit hard by the judges...was HOT HOT HOT!
I am glad you made the month and I bet you will be too. I know that your M has not been happy for YOU for quite some time. 13 years was it? Inertia is a powerful thing.
I'm still having a very hard time. I don't want to go into it because I committed to give WW an opportunity and I will stand by that. Is my life the best it could be right now? Certainly not. Will WW improve the quality of it? That is my turmoil. Can I ever be happy with her again? Let's see what her (our) vacation brings about.
If she comes back and takes the electric blanket off the bed without discussing it with me, I'll send her packing.
stph20,
Everyone suggests that you not try to analyze what your WH is thinking and that is sound advice. But there is something that you can be assured of and I just want to reiterate what BigK has said. In your WH's state of mind, even though you are not divorced, he has already left your M. All he wants is to be free of you. I am not saying that can't change. Plan A is for doing exactly that. Don't think ahead. Think about today. Today your WH wants everything but to be with you. So if you talk about your relationship or your M with him, it is actually painful for him. That is why R talk is so counterproductive to Plan A. By talking about the possibility of getting together, you push him further away. if believer is still around, she can explain it far better than I can.
Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that you nagged him. I don't know if you did or not but I need a word to use here. You are better not to confront. If he says he was not happy about your nagging, don't say "I don't nag any more - I have changed". First, he won't believe it and second, he feels like you are bargaining to get him back. Better approach is to say you are very sorry. Now you understand that your nagging created conflict and damaged your M and you hope that some day he can forgive you for that. The implication here is that you recognize your error, you are working to change it and that at some time in the future (he could well be divorced), you hope that he forgives.
You are not justifying the A. You are not accepting responsibility. You are not trying to trap him. You are opening the door and allowing him to leave.
This was hard for me to believe in for a very long time. I guess I got to the point where I had lost most all of my love for WW that I felt it didn't much matter. But by letting her go (pushing her out actually), I get the idea that she is no longer happy about not being part of the M. Believer may have single-handedly saved my M by pushing me so hard to take that attitude. Unfortunately I am no longer sure I want it saved. But that is my problem - not yours.
-----------------------------------------
I have 9 days to find my happy thought.
Last night the DDs were playing Mini Cooper racing in my room. I moved the race track there so that the maid would leave it alone. I spent half the day rewiring it to make the connections robust. I went over all the connections with a magnifying glass so the cars would keep going. Finally it was late and I sent the DDs to bed - or tried. DD2 went straight off. Once I tell her no Gameboys allowed in bed, she taps right out. DD1 was a different story. She sat outside my room in a snit. She said she wanted to play Mini Cooper still. I said she could today but not any more last night. She got angry and started to cry. I asked what she was upset about. She sadi she wanted to play. I asked if she wanted to call mommy today. She said she wanted to call right then. I told her we would try but that there was no guarantee mommy would be there because of the hour and, if not, we would call today. We called and SIL said that mommy had gone two days earlier to see her father and would be back Sunday night. Her father has no phone and I don't think he even has electricity. This upset DD1 more. She went back outside and sat in the hallway again in a snit. I carried her crying to her bed and tucked her in and asked if she wanted to say her prays and especially pray for mommy to be safe while traveling. Nothing. She stayed in bed but was crying terribly. So I left her there and went in my room and closed my door. About 10 minutes later I came back out and she had a pillow, blanket and teddy bear and was curled up outside my door. So I laid down with her and asked what she was upset about. She said she didn't know. She asked why I had come back out. I told her that I was worried about her but that she had been crying and angry when I left her in bed and I didn't want to fight with her. I thought that maybe by now she had calmed down and we could talk. She threw her arms around me and kissed me and told me how much she loved me. I promised her again that we would call mommy on Monday and said she could come sleep with me if she wanted to but that I was watching TV and it might bother her. She got in mommy's side of the bed and wouldn't go to sleep because she was watching TV so I turned it off and she went right out. She snored all night long.
I only say all this because I am not sure what I did right and what I did wrong. I did feel bad about leaving her in her room crying but she gets in these snits (not really a tantrum) and there is just no reasoning with her. She is a very stubborn girl.
My son used to have trouble staying out of my bed. Talked to the psychiatrist....ADD mom with an ADHD son....you need help early on.
Anyway, since this was a common thing at my house, our decision was that, I could cuddle w/ him, or his sister, in their bed at night if needed. Either child could come to my room and sleep. But they had to bring their own pillow and blanket and sleep on the floor. They could bring a sleep mat from preschool if they had one available. But, mommy needed to sleep well and that meant she needed her whole bed.
They agreed they wanted me to be happy the next day. That meant I had to sleep well. That meant I got the whole bed because they got their bed all to themselves.....
Now, occaisionally, they were allowed in - storms, bad dreams, things like that. But not often.
Now, you and your children are going through a really hard time. I think you did very well.
OK Stef - Great you've done some work on identifying his needs. Plan A is meeting those needs as best you can. EXCEPT SF remember. The reason I don't want you talking relationships with him is it pisses him off and you can't do it without lovebusting him to death. Meet his needs as best you can. Make home a warm and inviting place. WHat does he like to do? Recreational Companionship? See if you can do it with him. Spend time with him having fun.
This is why I say your Plan A sucked and you are not ready for Plan B.
Thanks to you and Pio, the lightbulb went off tonight. I should listen to you guys more often... The only problem is that he has his guard up and won't go do things with me. He says we're separated, we shouldn't be doing things together. He just won't let me do anything with him. I told him the other night we could spend Sundays together, he didn't like that idea. And the reason I put RC first is because of his stock car racing obsession. It really bothers him that I don't like it and never wanted to go with him. I knew he wished I would go and like it, but I didn't know how much it bothered him. Now I know and I've offered to go with him several times, but he says, too little, too late. He won't let me now.
I generally will not allow them in and they know that. Sometimes DD1 tells me at night that she is afraid to go to sleep because she is afraid she will have nightmares. I tell her that if she has a nightmare, she can come in and get in bed with me. 9 times out of 10 she stays in her room. She hardly ever comes in after waking up in her room.
DD2 never has any problem at all - well, sometimes the neighbor's dog barks (¡pinche perra!) and wakes her up. The problem with DD2 is that she sleeps fitfully - she throws fits all night - and, if I let her in bed with me, she might break my ribs.
DDs are now showering completely on their own and doing a good job. They put on their own pajamas and mostly brush their own hair although I usually have to finish it.
So when WW comes back there will be no more: 1) assisted showers 2) getting them dressed for bed 3) cariñitos - prayers are fine but no cariñitos
I know those are things that are "bonding" things but the DDs need to start doing these kinds of things for themselves. They seem to enjoy it and it is so nice not having to fight with them to take showers.
Actually there will be a lot of changes when WW comes back. And that electric blanket had better stay on the bed. If she doesn't like it on her side, she can fold her half onto mine.
I despise gardening. Hate it. I like to cut grass but that's only because it involves machines that I can master and horsepower to cut things. Okay tree cutting is fun too because I can use my 3 Hp 16" chain saw. But gardening? Gag.
WW loves to garden. She loves having the prettiest garden in a 5 Km radius. She loves getting compliments on her garden. So I garden. I do it to be with WW. And I enjoy gardening.
Bottom line is that you have to learn to enjoy what you are doing rather than doing what you enjoy.
Things don't make you happy. Activities don't make you happy. You make you happy.
Spending time with your H should make you happy. if it doesn't, you need to figure out why. There are very few things I can't enjoy. Okay - I can't enjoy cricket or opera. No way. All I know about cricket is that one game takes three days and at the end, even if the Indians are ahead, the English remind them of some rule showing them that they lost. The only other thing I know about cricket is that if India plays Pakistan, alway bet on the Pakistanis.
In your WH's state of mind, even though you are not divorced, he has already left your M. All he wants is to be free of you. I am not saying that can't change. Plan A is for doing exactly that. Don't think ahead. Think about today. Today your WH wants everything but to be with you. So if you talk about your relationship or your M with him, it is actually painful for him. That is why R talk is so counterproductive to Plan A.
I get most of your post, except how it's painful for him to talk about our M. I understand that it pisses him off and I've seen that, but this has been so easy for him, how is it painful, when he's so sure of what he wants and has already taken the first step to getting what he really wants, by moving out?
And I absolutely would have given racing another chance if I knew exactly how important it was to him that I go with him. I enjoyed being with him, that's why I went every single weekend during our first year of dating. But it was so boring and I just couldn't take it any more. He goes ALL THE FRICKIN' TIME!!!
I got bored because of crashes and they take forever to get going again and my butt hurts from the bleachers and it's just not fun for me. We had a deal that I would go to one race a season and I did that. He led me to believe that he was happy with that deal. Come to find out, not so much. If I could go back and change everything that was wrong with our M, I would, starting right here with this problem. And if he comes back, I'll give it another shot at going with him.
The crashes themselves are fun, it's just the aftermath of cleaning the track up and getting the cars back where they're supposed to be...trust me, it takes FOREVER. And it's dirty and hot, usually and just icky. Now, give me NASCAR and I'm a happy camper. This is something that we do enjoy together.
I agree with Kiwi, activities do make you happy. If they didn't make you happy, you wouldn't do them. And if you did do them and they didn't make you happy, why do them?
BTW Pio, my DD's b/f asked me on IM the other day if it was common for DD to sulk. He also said a trashy touristy knick knack was usually enough to lift the bottom lip.
I told him she could sulk for the Olympics.
It might just be something your DD will always do. You did good BTW.
And the reason I put RC first is because of his stock car racing obsession. It really bothers him that I don't like it and never wanted to go with him. I knew he wished I would go and like it, but I didn't know how much it bothered him. Now I know and I've offered to go with him several times, but he says, too little, too late. He won't let me now.
And I know that he doesn't like doing things alone. He would rather shop with me, or whatever it is. He can't stand to be at the house by himself. He just needs to be doing something with somebody else.
I don't think she's a racing freak, but I have been told that she goes now because WH will be there. Racing makes him the happiest out of everything in this world. It always took priority over my needs or wants.
Ok, so it looks like that really is his top need. OW will meet that need as long as suits her. She won't be able to keep the pretence of interest up for very long if it really doesn't interest her.
So, he's said too little, too late. I guess he won't believe you suddenly have developed an interest in stock car racing. I can see that.
The thing is you complained about his passion. You said it was boring and the bleachers were too hard. Do you see how disappointed he was that you didn't share his passion? I know that all couples have their own interests that the other person finds impossible to get enthused about. My H's passion is music and playing the guitar. I like it but I'm not passionate about it. But I show an interest and listen to him about it (up to a point). I tease him about it. He teases me about my garden and my scrapbooking but he listens to me (up to a point).
The trick is to find something you BOTH enjoy doing.
The only person in the world, that I have found, who sounds like the Big O is Chris Isaak. The Big O and Patsy Cline are almost inimitable. What voices!! What style!!
All I can say is this is just the coolest. It's a fabulous spring evening, it's been hot all day, the door to the patio is open, I have a glass of wine in my hand and the songs are drifting out onto the patio.
I think my thread should speak of me as a person therefore please stop mucking about with adding stars. Whoever added the third star, please remove it. I need my thread to reflect my inferiority. Maybe even only 1 star would be better than two.
I apologize to all those with three stars. It was not my doing.
----------------------------
FWIW I just have to say this. There is a post here on page one that I have read twice now and I find it very hard to accept the story at face value. And I have asked myself several times if I am not being prejudicial. I just have know many welders in my life. No disrespect intended but I have not seen many with such a mastery of English.
Something about that post is just off and I can't put my finger on it. I like the part where he talks about what people tell him about all his wonderful qualities. Am I just being too critical? Probably. Just ignore me.
Good morning larousse, Pio, stph, Kiwi, bigk, Todd, Luna, orcid & those soon to join in.
Kind of a quite night around here.
Todd, I'm sorry to hear your dissapointment with your WW. Are you still planning "the talk" on Sunday? If so maybe what you need to do is follow larousse's lead & get some tequila. Maybe it can help get the difficult words to come out.
Pio, you did a fine job with your daughter. Learning to manage our dissapointments & to sleep alone are two important skills kids need. She knows your care about her & that you're willing to be there for her to help her. You didn't allow her to give the problem over to you & that can be hard when we see our kids having a hard time coping.
My youngest son (11) tried out for the select chorus at his school, this is his second attempt. He found out yesterday he didn't make it but his older brother did (this will be older brother's second year). On back to school night the chorus teacher pulled me aside to say youngest son seems to have "found his voice", his pitch is good & other singing skills have shown real improvement. She shared this with him as did I. He REALLY wanted to get into the chorus & we both felt he had a good chance given his teacher's statements.
He's been good at holding back the tears (not easy for him) but they are right there ready to fall. All I could do was tell him how proud I was of him for trying, that given his improved abilities maybe next year he can try again & that I understood how dissappointed he was. Boy, did that feel lame.
Kiwi, your description of a lovely spring evening sounds very nice.
Here it's a lovely fall morning. The sun is out, low in the sky so that it shines through the trees & lights up the moisture in the air showing shafts of mist. My boys are still in bed & the dog is quite so it's peacefull. It's only 42 degrees at the moment which is nice because I can wear something cozy. Fall is my favorite time of year.
Nam, your fall sounds great. I read that there are touristic tours with the more colorful woods leaves.
It's 7:06. Still dark. I have to wash the car to take it to the emitions verification.
Nam, by chance do you know how to take mold* humidity from the back of oil paintings? Are your activities or festivities with the art asociation, store? still going?
I wouldn't try to take mold away from a painting myself. Can you bring it to a shop, art restorer, possibly a good frame shop?
Yes, the activities are ongoing. Each month we have a new exhibit. This month we just happen to be doing it in the form of a fund raising event. The gallery I have my work in is a cooperative. All the artists work there & all have some duty or other to keep the place running. We have about 50 artists at any given time most quite good. Many painters, a couple of sculpters, fiber artist, jewlers, wood workers, potters
Fall is a big tourist time around here. So is the summer. I live in an area with a couple of touristy things. An aquarium & an old sea village recreated with original buildings brought in from the surrounding area. Plus, we have two casinos quite close by.
Behind my house I have woods & it's beautiful to watch the trees turn vivid colors. I sit onmy deck with a cup of tea or glass of wine & enjoy it with my boys, when they aren't playing the video game. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Todd, I'm sorry to hear your dissapointment with your WW. Are you still planning "the talk" on Sunday? If so maybe what you need to do is follow larousse's lead & get some tequila. Maybe it can help get the difficult words to come out.
Hi nams,
As it turns out, we had the talk last night very late. It was via telephone which I did not prefer but once it unfolded, it was inevitable. As for tequila, I will not touch the stuff. As I have told my sons for year, be careful with tequila; it is the only liquor that can kill you.
Anyway, "the talk" did not go so well. It started with her again talking about the sting of exposure. We regressed to an interesting point. She said that our marriage should be between the two of us, hence I should have never brought DS or friends into it by exposing. I asked her that if the marriage is between us, why did she bring OM into it? To my utter shock and amazement, she said okay, so our marrige is about the "three of us". In case anyone is lost, that would be WW, OM and myself. Not many things in this world surprise or shock me; this one did. I said wait: you are saying that our marriage is about the three of us? She said yes.
She went on to way that I have never taken blame for her affair that it isn't just her fault. She said that she was depressed just like me but that she "didn't choose to lay in bed all day and sleep". Exact quote.
I cleared my throat and told her that if we are to have any chance of R, it nees to be based on honesty. She asked what had she not been honest about. I told her backpeddling from her affair and claiming that she and OM were just friends. She said that I didn't understand that they were/are just friends. She quickly added: well mostly friends.
She said that OMXW also is to blame because she left him alone for six weeks while she visited her family. She also said that she had nothing to do with their D, that it was doomed before her affair. So, she will no longer admit to her affair, but she will have conversation in which it is tacitly understood that she had an affair. She was raised with strong values with a religiously conservative viewpoint. I think she simply cannot face the light of day with what she did. She would rather pretend that she is as innocent as the driven snow and maybe she can convince God as well.
I told her that I didn't want to see or talk to her anymore. That I have talked about the honesty issue until I am blue in the face and I will not move forward with lies. She went onto a tangent about DS1, that if he doesn't love her she will never apologize to him or make amends. His love for her should be unconditional. I asked her what that meant. She said no matter what she did, he should still love her and treat her with the respect his Mother deserves. I asked if she felt so strongly about unconditional love, why didn't she feel it for me and not feel the need to hop in bed with OM? She reminded me that I was in bed and depressed and he admired her greatly. I reminded her of his checkered past and that he is a philanderer. She said yes, he normally is but that she was special to him. The conversation went downhill from there, if that is even possible.
Oh Todd, I am so sorry you had to sit through this discussion with your WW...again, aside from a few variations.
She does have some things in common with my ex. He, like your WW, needs to feel blameless. He has rewritten things in such a way that he really had no other choice than to do what he did. He believes it. His mother did the very same thing. makes me wonder about mental stability.
Not to presume anything about your WW, but she may also be like my ex in that he had no indivudual problems that need addressing. This is something I could not work against. It was all in his hands to see his problems & find the desire to fix them. I don't know that he ever will. Sad, & my hope is these personal things don't screw with the boys.
I told her that I didn't want to see or talk to her anymore.
Now keep the promise!
Yeah, I know. I will. In fact, she already called this morning but I didn't answer the phone. She left a rambling voice mail which I coudn't even listen to.
When I saw my Primary care physician after DD to get tested for STD's, he told me that his Mom had cheated on his Dad. His Dad didn't even discuss the issue. He had a moving truck back up the driveway and removed all his stuff. Two months later, he died of a heart attack. Still, it took his Mom over five years to admit what she had done. She is still with OM BTW.
My guess is that it will take WW at least five years to "get it". There is no way I am waiting her out. When she talks, I can hear her best friend talking so much it is almost laughable. She thinks her best friend is so precious. This is the same woman who, a few days after DD, showed up at my front door dressed to the nines, and offered to "help" me through my distress. I refused which I will admit was very difficult. She is a beautiful woman and very smart. But I couldn't do it. Anyway, if WW only knew.
But WW's philosophy is that her affair is my fault. That is her BF talking and perhaps OM as well. I cannot and will not deal with that. I told her that I am done.
Sorry about the way the phone conversation went. It's such a pity. I really can't understand her frame of mind.
I wanted so much to share with you what Harley had say last Thursday to a man whose wife had had a change of behavior and lifestyle when she went back to work. The man that called to the program mentioned how her girlfriends had a strong influence in her ideas and behavior. The BS is christian and didn't enjoyed or shared her WW's entreteinment options like partiying and drinking.
Harley recomended him to separate from her and then explain to her the conditions under which he could consider going back to her. Harley pointed out to him not to talk about values but more about creating a renewed wonderful marriage.
She seems so far away in her understanding of the situation, so in the fog but maybe, just may be, she could fantom, visualize that there is something for her to gain in changing her lifestyle.
I see that you try to apply healthy ways or protocols of discussions and that she ignores them every time. She needs consecuences now, I'm afraid.
I agree that you should not contact her and maybe write her a Plan B letter.
Sorry Todd.
About tequila,
They got, the people that make tequila in Jalisco, a world valide certification, as valide as champagne, meaning only them produce tequila and tequila can only be gotten from agave.
Now, I think you know and most people know but you don't drink a shot of tequila, called caballito in one gulp. It must be sipped.
I don't think you should drink tequila right now and not in a while but if it's real tequila it underwent a good destilation process and aging process in big wood conteiners as brandy or whisky.
You know nams, it is weird. I am not sick at all. I am sure that some of it is that I have the defensive shields up to protect myself from further hurt but my overwhelming reaction is that I feel sorry for her. She is lost in lala land and her "logic" is so distorted it otherwise would be laughable.
I offended you with my tequila comment. It was a joke. The way it goes with my sons is that I will tell them not to drink tequila, that it will kill them and it is the only liquor that will kill them. Then, one will ask, what about rum? I say, okay rum can kill you also. So there are two and only two liquors that can kill you. Then another son will say, yeah, what about vodka? Then I say, okay, yes, vodka can kill you as well. So that makes three liquors that can kill you and only three. Then one will ask, but what about gin? And so on and so forth. It started innocently and is now a standing joke we go through whenever the four of us are together. Kinda of a sentimental thing I suppose. And yes, I do drink tequila. Mostly in Margaritas, but I have been known to "sip" a shot. Like the time in California, we were in a restaurant/club and I ended up on stage playing a Jimmy Buffet song or two. At least that is what they tell me. Have I mentioned that tequila makes me crazy?
That's sad state to see someone you were once so tied to in.
Maybe I was weak but when I finally understood the depth of ex's stuff & his unwillingness/inability to deal with it that's when I was able to truly move on to heal myself.
I say weak because doing this moved me away from any love I felt for him & any desire to see us as a couple. Understand I didn't have a choice, but it was clear to me this was someone I couldn't be happy with. From that point I was able to move on in a more peaceful way.
I see that I'm a person who has not been positive or optimistic on your behalf Todd. I'm sure that's due to the outcome of my situation. So, I'm sorry if what you really want & need is support here & I keep tossing that wet blanket because I see some similarities between your WW & ex.
If you'd rather me not keep up with my wet blanket just say so.
As for the mold, get a large bucket and fill it with a solution of 75% water and 25% chlorine bleach. Soak the painting for 24 hours. That should remove any trace of the mold.
My problem is, WH plans on filing for D in 6 months, foggy or not.
It took the couple in SAA 2 years, but I thought that was a really long time. I didn't know it was average. Is it really worth it to wait that long?
It's like putting your life on hold, waiting for something that might not even happen. Who can do that? What I mean is, who is strong enough to do that?
My Dday was August 19 and I'm ready for the A to be over and for H to come home to *start* fixing things.
stph, I've just checked your original thread and have seen that your H's A has been going for 3 months. The average lifespan of an A is 9 months. Mine was for 18 months but I would say the last 9 months of that were trying to extricate myself from it. In fact the last 9 months of it were EA and not PA.
I don't want to go on about you being young but when you see things from my age, 2 years is a drop in the ocean and if you intend to be married for 30+ years like I've been it's worth it to put in the effort.
While the A is going on there's not a lot you can do except prove to your H that you are the best proposition for a wife that he has.
I can see where you're coming from. I'm looking at from a different perspective because I am so young. 2 years will put me at 28, and in that time, I'd be able to move on with my life, if I knew he wasn't coming back.
So, I basically have about 6 months to go before anything can be done. I'm hoping things will start looking up in November when she leaves that job and they can't see each other every day. But who knows.
So, does the 2 years entail the A and recovery time?
My problem is, WH plans on filing for D in 6 months, foggy or not.
stph, the operative word is "plans". That represents his words. Judge him by his actions and consider all words from him to be psychobabble. And, you cannot say foggy or not. He is foggy ergo you must ignore every word that comes from his mouth.
Quote
It took the couple in SAA 2 years, but I thought that was a really long time. I didn't know it was average. Is it really worth it to wait that long?
Two years is the minimum for recovery. The range is 2-5 years and some couples don't R or heal withing the normal range. R of the marriage and healing of the BS are not dependent on time only. They say time heals all wounds but that is only partialy true. It also takes hard work. It is one reason why you need to fixate more on yourself, your ego and healing, as opposed to WH and what he is thinking or saying this week.
Quote
It's like putting your life on hold, waiting for something that might not even happen. Who can do that? What I mean is, who is strong enough to do that?
As incredulous as it seems, people do it all the time. The reason you will do it is because the alternative is much less attractive. I have a friend whose WW had multiple affairs 21 years ago. Her affairs bother him more today than they did on DD. This firmly proves that the passage of time alone does not heal.
Quote
My Dday was August 19 and I'm ready for the A to be over and for H to come home to *start* fixing things.
As you probably know by now, I don't blindly drink the MB Kool-aid. I think it is normal and healthy to harbor positve expectations for your marriage. I also believe that you have to keep a healthy perspective on R or you put too much of yourself into recovery only to be hugely disappointment. I went from hope to despair, back to hope, to disullusionment back to hope, to indifference and made the rounds a few more times. I am finally arrived at indifference. I personally think it is a healthy state in which to be.
Wow nams. That sounds great. Where does one get peach mango salsa? I would try it but they won't give me my crock pot back. I need to move; these folks have no sense of humor.
In the midst of our mess ex asked me why I loved him. It was an excellent question to which my answers were not what they should have been.
They had more to do with fear of the future, our children, uncertainty about how things would work out, our history together, habit, & characteristics I wanted him to have, some he did, at one time, have; all things that don't speak of my love for him.
I see it more clearly now & still think we could have made things work with lots of changes. But, that question of what did I love about him really made me think about our relationship.
Next time, if I'm lucky enough to find another partner, I want a different kind of love. One that won't take me so much time to think about when asked why I love him.
You know Todd, that salsa is the new ketchup. Most grocery stores have a gazillion choices. Oldest son & I went to the store after going to the track & he picked out black bean salsa with corn.
In the midst of our mess ex asked me why I loved him. It was an excellent question to which my answers were not what they should have been.
Not too long after DD, my WW asked me the same question. I didn't have a quick or crisp answer. Affairs make you suspicious about everything, at least in the early going. I figured she wanted to compare my answer to that of OM. I decided not to play. One of the things I learned last night is that her number one EN is admiration. Stan_ley says that it is the most important EN of most WW. It makes sense. The crazy thing is that before WW started her affair, she had my complete and utter admiration and love. She no longer has to worry about either of those.
I got censored! Didn't realize he.l was so naughty.
Funny thing about admiration. It was important to ex as well but I didn't know that. I felt I showed it but I found out in MCing my way of showing admiration was not what he needed. Maybe the WSs with a high need for admiration need it from others & in different ways because they get used to what we provided. Doesn't say very good things about them does it?
I wonder if people with a very high need for admiration will always be susceptible to As.
I don't know the song you talked about. I know you want to put up the lyrics.
Well, I don't think Pio wants me to post any more lyrics. The vast majority of the Eagles songs were written and sung by either Don Henley (Hotel California, Desperado, Dirty Laundry) and Glenn Frey (Lying Eyes, Peaceful Easy Feeling). This one is by Frey so it is more of the easy grooving kind of song. Very positive and just plain pretty. Below is a link to CMT where you can see the Eagles perform it live. I think it is from a concert in Melbourne. I assume that is Aus. and not Florida.
The Eagles "Greatest Hits" is the best selling album of all time with 29 million sold. Is that amazing or what? And Hotel California also sold a bunch of copies; I seem to recall 15 million. Think they know where their next meal is coming from?
Sitting by a foggy window Staring at the pouring rain Falling down like lonely teardrops Memories of love in vain These cloudy days, make you wanna cry It breaks your heart when someone leaves and you don’t know why
I can see that you’ve been hurting, maybe I’ve been lonely too I’ve been out here lost and searching, looking for a girl like you Now I believe the sun is gonna shine Don’t you be afraid to love again, put your hand in mine…
Baby, I would never make you cry I would never make you blue I would never let you down I would never be untrue
I know a place we can go where true love always stay There’s no more stormy nights, no more cloudy days
I believe in second chances I believe in angels, too I believe in new romances Baby, I believe in you These cloudy days are coming to an end And you don’t have to be afraid to fall in love again
Baby, I would never make you cry I would never make you blue I would never turn away I would never be untrue I know a place we can go where true love always stays There’s no more stormy nights, no more cloudy days
Uh oh! When I asked if you knew the song "Get Over It" I didn't mean to imply anything about your situation Todd. It's a song I like about people & their lack of personal responsibility. I thought maybe as a libertarian you might appreciate it too.
I also added red wine to my crock pot concoction. Smells very good.
I wonder if people with a very high need for admiration will always be susceptible to As.
My guess is yes. There is never a shortage of potential OP's waiting in the wings. And you know, a new and different person has an advantage over a spouse that someone is used to. Although I told my WW every day how beautiful she was and how much I loved her, to this day she doesn't not remember it. She clearly remembers OM overtures. I guess it is part of the rush of an affair.
Uh oh! When I asked if you knew the song "Get Over It" I didn't mean to imply anything about your situation Todd. It's a song I like about people & their lack of personal responsibility. I thought maybe as a libertarian you might appreciate it too.
I thought I knew all the Eagles songs but I missed this one. I looked up the lyrics and yes, like them very much. The libertarian in me is smiling.
Quote
A beautiful song Todd. It's an optimistic look to the future with a melancholy nod to the past in it's feel.
I think WSs also have a distorted picture of the marriage & actions of their spouse. I guess they need to in order to be a WW spouse.
I remember moments in MCing & in discussion with ex when we just couldn't have been further apart in our recollection of events.
ex didn't recall my suggesting MCing many years ago or my attempts to create emotional intimacy with him. He simply doesn't remember them therefore they don't exist.
I just spent some time watching the eagles & I REALLY like them as older men. They songs seems to have more impact coming from experience, maybe it's me inserting my experiences.
I think WSs also have a distorted picture of the marriage & actions of their spouse. I guess they need to in order to be a WW spouse.
I quite agree. I think it is a way of justifying the affair, i.e., "rewriting the marital history". I will never forget the first time WW gave me the historical revisionist version of our marriage. It went from she had not loved me for over twenty years to she has never loved me and married me because she felt "obligated". That one was priceless. You should have seen how much she tried to snare me. And she also came to the conclusion that I was insanely jealous. In fact, she was the insane and the jealous one. I could hardly do anything without her breathing down my neck. I was never jealous of her until I realized that she was having an affair, and I am not quite certain that would be called jealously.
Quote
I remember moments in MCing & in discussion with ex when we just couldn't have been further apart in our recollection of events.
Have you read the book, "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck? Wonderful book. In some regards, it is a rehash of Erich Fromm's "The Art of Loving". Anyway, he discusses that love is action, not a feeling. I think that is the primary distinction between a WS and a BS. WS sees love as a feeling, which, (danger Will Robinson) can be transferred from person to person and the BS sees love as a commitment.
Peck uses an example of the guy who stops by the same watering hole on the way home from work each day. He tells all the patrons how much he loves his wife and kids. They are all convinced. I know someone like that in real life and everyone thinks he is just the greatest and most devoted Father. Nonsense! If he truly loved his family, he would be at home helping with the dishes, homework, kid's baths and reading bedtime stories.
"ex didn't recall my suggesting MCing many years ago or my attempts to create emotional intimacy with him. He simply doesn't remember them therefore they don't exist."
WS all do what they must to survive their own deeds.
Quote
I just spent some time watching the eagles & I REALLY like them as older men. They songs seems to have more impact coming from experience, maybe it's me inserting my experiences.
I agree. If you view all the Eagles' videos at CMT, you will see performances from their long-haired seventies and eighties and also more recent. Incidentally, as a guitarist, you always have a favorite guitarist or two that you worship. One for me is Don Felder who was the lead guitarist for many years with the Eagles. In the video clip "Hotel California", he is the one with the double neck Gibson guitar. What really p!sses me off is not how good those guys play, but the ease with which they do it. But my favorite guitarist of all time is Duane Allman. He was killed at age 24 in a motorcylce accident. I can only imagine what tracks and licks he would have put down if he had lived.
Is tonight mexican night for you Todd or was that last night?
Quote
What do you eat if you don't cook?
That was the other night, Wednesday, I think. Well, if I go by what I have in inventory, I have the second half of my Mexican dinner. I can never eat the entire dinner. I fill up on chips and salsa before the food gets there, lol. Like a little kid, I suppose. Let's see, Nathan's hot dogs, left-over pizza or soup. For some reason, I feel like delivery tonight. That could be pizza, Italian, Chinese or a hamburger. I just learned that Jason's Deli delivers and I could get a healthy meal from there. Oh, what the heck, healthy meal it is. I can keep eating all the unhealthy stuff. Grown men left to their own devices are not very good. Anyway, let's see, a fruit bowl, turkey sandwich and carrot juice. Does that sound healthy?
I admire anyone who can create music. I'm not able to but my kids are musical. Math & music are linked & I definately don't have math ability, my boys do. ex comes from a line of engineers so that's where it comes from for them.
I love the immediacy of music. That's what I see of it anyway. I'm sure it's not immediate for those who write & play but as a listener that's my experience. You get the pay off right away when you play or sing VS waiting to see a painting or piece of pottery finished.
Shall I serve angel hair pasta for or rice with the rock pot dish, hmmm
Yes, that sounds healthy. You must live in fairly big town or city to be able to have all that delivered. All I can get is Domino's, no thank you. I don't live in the sticks but it's a pretty small town. We have a Target & all the box stores a few towns over. We'll be getting a big developement soon with a few box stores. Better for the tax base anyway.
When ever I eat mexican I can't help but fill upon chips & salsa. I've neverhad carrot juice, do they add anything to it? Sounds a little...orange for my taste.
Are you still living in a temporary place or have you moved into something else?
Dilemma solved. I bought focacia bread & the boys want that. Fine easier for me.
It's not just grown men who when left to themselves don't eat well. If my middle son can't get it from a box that says cereal on it he would starve. My oldest son lives on food that's white, though he's getting better these days. My youngest waits for me to make him food but he's starting to wise up & learn to make sandwiches.
Yes, that sounds healthy. You must live in fairly big town or city to be able to have all that delivered.
I live in Atlanta. It's big enough. Everyone seems to have a car that they put on the road at least half their life, lol. Most local places sell juice produced by Arden's Garden. It's a local company with some very nice juices. Apparently a great company to work for, Arden is own and run by a woman. I used to have a juicer and made my own juices. Carrot with ginger and apple is great BTW.
I am still living in the temporary spot. Under our laws, once you file (which I haven't but acting consistently with the fact that I have) all assets are frozen so I am holding off buying a place for myself. I have a new condo development in mind, only two miles from where I currently am. I really love the town I am in. The condo is in the next town over but one of the best in metro Atlanta.
Same to you. My dinner was just delivered. I just saw on the television that a batch of carrot juice is responsible for boutulism. Wish me luck! Good night.
PPPPPPPLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEE, give me WW phone # so I can bust through the fog if only for a hot second to inform her of her decision to be foggy benefits the rest of the female population...a thought that I'm sure has never occurred to her through the thick fog that emenates from her pores. I would gladly thank her for giving some other lucky woman the opportunity of a lifetime. I'm sure you could have a line of women fighting to meet all of your needs. I know it's not what you want but once you get past this it is true that you would have no problem finding a tender loving woman whose #1 EN is SF and would enjoy your diversity, intelligence and love of culture. Need I go on???
PPPPPPPLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEE, give me WW phone # so I can bust through the fog if only for a hot second to inform her of her decision to be foggy benefits the rest of the female population...a thought that I'm sure has never occurred to her through the thick fog that emenates from her pores. I would gladly thank her for giving some other lucky woman the opportunity of a lifetime. I'm sure you could have a line of women fighting to meet all of your needs. I know it's not what you want but once you get past this it is true that you would have no problem finding a tender loving woman whose #1 EN is SF and would enjoy your diversity, intelligence and love of culture. Need I go on???
LMAO. Yes, please go on. My ego could use it. Well, if you are going to scare WW, I am afraid you will have to convince her that she is going to loose OM. Hit her where it hurts.
Wait, are you saying that there are womens who number one EN is SF? Aw come on, say it isn't true....
I would try it but they won't give me my crock pot back.
No way I believe that. I can see why they took your stove and your microwave. The crockpot has a max operating temperature of what? 103.7 degrees Farenheit? No way you can burn anything down with that. At this point your only alternative is a can of Sterno. Do you REALLY think they are going to let you have one of those?
Do what I do. Buy Swanson's chicken pot pies and just leave them sitting in the sun for 20 minutes. Of course it does help that the pavement temperature in Saudi is 386 F.
It might also be named Peach Mango Chutney. Chutney has been around forever but nobody will buy it because there is just something about the word "chutney" that sounds gross. Very popular in India. Rename from "chutney" to "salsa" and American's will buy it by the bucket loads.
Chutney just looks and sounds like what you find on the pavement outside Indian food restaurants in London on a Saturday night.
Chutney has been around forever here and we have no problem whatsoever buying it or using it or making it. But then we're not Americans. Salsa is not chutney.
Anyway, to go back to what everyone was saying about admiration. Sometimes I feel a bit out of place on here BTW, you talk about WSs as though they're some sort of alien being. I don't know if you forget I was one or you just know me but it feels kind of weird when you talk the BS talk.
It could well be that admiration junkies like myself need admiration from everyone. I know I need it from women as well. I crave compliments and attention. Who knows why? My parents didn't ignore me, although it was always a given my sister was smarter than me.
I was saying I couldn't think what need the OM filled. Of course it was admiration.
I would try it but they won't give me my crock pot back.
No way I believe that. I can see why they took your stove and your microwave. The crockpot has a max operating temperature of what? 103.7 degrees Farenheit? No way you can burn anything down with that. At this point your only alternative is a can of Sterno. Do you REALLY think they are going to let you have one of those?
Do what I do. Buy Swanson's chicken pot pies and just leave them sitting in the sun for 20 minutes. Of course it does help that the pavement temperature in Saudi is 386 F.
Actually, the crocker pot operates up to 270 degrees. Believe me, when the fire marshall made his second trip here that fateful September afternoon, he confiscated every appliance that could heat to over 140 degrees F. That went my hair dryer. You can fool them once, but not twice apprently.
That's how I feel too. Seriously. I have always been skeptical of the alien abduction theory. I think it is a coping mechanism for the BS. It is simply that, to the BS, the WS is displaying behaviors that are totally foreign. But to just dismiss it as alien abduction is demeaning and simplistic. Alien Abduction is the main reason I avoid reading some very well respected posters. Once I see that, it is a turnoff.
I remember when I first fell in love with gemela. I almost quit my job over it. Falling in love is a temporary insanity. It is a great feeling. I made the decision very early on that I would work every day to love gemela. And it was work but I was mostly successful. But I never have maintained that "in love" feeling. Sometimes I have come close but not often and not for long.
******, It is easy to have an affair if you don't put barriers in place to protect against it.
Anyway, to go back to what everyone was saying about admiration. Sometimes I feel a bit out of place on here BTW, you talk about WSs as though they're some sort of alien being. I don't know if you forget I was one or you just know me but it feels kind of weird when you talk the BS talk.
Sorry Jen. I should stipulate that when I refer to WS or WW, I mean specifically my own specific WW. I think it is great having you in this thread and will be more sensitive in the future. Okay?
I know what you meant. I have never accepted that gemela was an alien. I will not diminish her feelings nor disrespect her in that way. It is probably the main reason I question whether I want her back. All I ever wanted was for to be happy. If she can be happier with pool boy, I think she should go.
Whatever caused the boundaries to be lowered to permit the A, being in love is being in love.
It took me a long time to lower the boundaries that made me take the step into a PA. I rationalised the EA (the first 3 months of the A) by thinking because it wasn't a PA it was not "so bad." When I knew I was going to up the ante, and I knew I was, it was no accidental "just happened", I spent a night lying in bed next to Rob, shaking with fear and horror at what I intended doing. I had been completely faithful for 28 years and an A was the last thing I had ever, ever contemplated.
Hey there, dinner was good. It was not chutney though I do know a really simply chutney appetizer.
One bar cream cheese one 6-8 oz. jar chutney, flavor is your choice pour the chutney over the top of the cream cheese
serve with crackers
The boys ate it & that's the real test. There were a few years where at least one child was unhappy with the food I cooked. I learned not to cater to that & now they do pretty well.
Maybe you can find an Easy Bake Oven Todd. They don't get too hot. The recipes are probably fairly limited but it will cut down on the fire hazard.
I've only driven through Atlanta or flown in & out. I hear the traffic is a nightmare.
Here's a mini quiche recipe:
beaten eggs fresh spinach (the kind without E-coli) sauteed onions fresh broccoli
Mix all the ingredients into the beaten eggs pour into muffin tins cook in 350 oven until center cooked
You can keep these in the refrigerator & heat in the microwave for an easy breakfast.
The missing 2% ingredient for the bleach solution? I don't know I'll have to think about that.
I spent a night lying in bed next to Rob, shaking with fear and horror at what I intended doing.
I know gemela's first SF with OM was not accidental. She clearly set the stage. Kids asleep in bed. OM sneaks into house "for dinner". At least I know what he had for dessert. Now gemela gets her just desserts.
When ex was in the army I had plenty of opportunities to be unfaithful. Lots of people that knew of ex's absences (often for a couple months at a time with very little contact) would contact me to offer "support". Some were sincere some not. I didn't have anyone dress up & offer their help as did Todd though.
Kiwi, it must difficult for you to come here & see the portrayals of WW spouses. It's such a horrible pain we have to use angry, often nasty, words to help us cope. I'll bet you understand that. Still, it must sting. What bothers you the most about what people say about WS?
It took me a long time to lower the boundaries that made me take the step into a PA. I rationalised the EA (the first 3 months of the A) by thinking because it wasn't a PA it was not "so bad." When I knew I was going to up the ante, and I knew I was, it was no accidental "just happened", I spent a night lying in bed next to Rob, shaking with fear and horror at what I intended doing. I had been completely faithful for 28 years and an A was the last thing I had ever, ever contemplated.
Jen,
All I have ever wanted from my WW post DD is honesty and remorse. You have shown both of those. I believe that a remorseful FWW is a wonderful expression of the human spirit. Character is not defined by our mistakes, but how we react and respond to them. Kudos.
Yes Todd, absolutely right. For a WS to be honest about their actions & truly remorseful would probably go a looong way in helping to repair many marriages.
Pio, FWIW and it probably isn't worth much because betrayal is betrayal, I would NEVER have defiled my marriage bed. NEVER.
Nams, none of it bothers me. Anything anyone says about WS's is justified. I just feel a bit out on my own sometimes on TKO.
You weren't around a few months ago, maybe you were I don't remember, but when I relapsed and renewed contact with the OM briefly, I had terrible fights with both Todd and Pio and things said then DID upset me. They were both SO disappointed in me it was very hard to take. They were also both fully justified in what they said to me then.
No I wasn't around then. I came looking around here a month or two ago when I realized I hadn't really dealt with the infidelity part involved in my D.
Why do you think you relapsed? Did you tell your H?
Oh, you REALLY weren't around were you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Water under the bridge now, but no, I didn't. Someone from MB did. Someone who had my full name. I'm very pleased they did because, even though I wanted to, I didn't have the guts.
Our real, true recovery began then and I still thank the person who put their money where their mouth was.
I won't go into that as specifically as ToddAC. I take a more general view. Almost nobody is perfect. I use the word "almost" so as not to upset ToddAC. People make mistakes. I do all the time. But I believe that people should take responsibility for the actions, admit their mistakes and try to do better.
Take the opposite view - one strike and you're out. Take that to extremes and we should inpose capital punishment for every single crime. She shoplifted, he kited a check...kill em. Their no good. Okay that is extreme but the criminal justice system is vaguely based on the premise that people can learn from their mistakes. Just look at Australia - It was started by a bunch of English criminals given a second chance and look what they've ... okay bad example. Never mind.
ToddAC harps on remorse but it has value in that it shows that the WS is realigning his/herself with the views of the BS. It brings both back to a common belief system. It also give the BS some misplaced assurance that the infraction and ensuing pain to the BS will not be repeated.
Everybody deserves a second chance (or more). If I didn't believe that, I would just kill myself after my first mistake (which would have been a very long time ago). What I don't like is people who rationalize their mistakes - blame them on other people. We are responsible for our own actions. The woman who wins a million dollars suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee on herself. Give me a break.
There are a lot of good people in the world who make bad choices. They accept those choices, they own them, they learn from them, try to mitigate the damage and go on.
The BS has clearly been violated. Acknowledgement of that on the part of the WS is helpful to healing.
Maybe you can find an Easy Bake Oven Todd. They don't get too hot. The recipes are probably fairly limited but it will cut down on the fire hazard.
My youngest son got an Easy Bake oven for Christmas one year. We baked a cake and everything. Speaking of baking a cake, I baked a birthday cake for my Mom when I was nine. From scratch. She cried then and every birthday for the rest of her life when she talked about it. Where the heck did they come from?
Quote
I've only driven through Atlanta or flown in & out. I hear the traffic is a nightmare.
Traffic is awful and will only get worse before it can get better. People are still moving here from all over the country. As for the airport, the joke around here is that you have to go through the Atlanta airport to get to heaven. FYI, Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world.
Snap out of it. Let's talk about Snap-on tools, muscle cars and Hurst shifters. I had a GTO in 1968 that had a 4.11 rear end with heavy duty positraction, Hurst close ratio shifter, 400 CI engine with Rochester quadrajet. RRRRrrrrggggghhhh!
With what????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I could always put up some song lyrics. That's always good for a laugh.
Oh, speaking of the Eagles, they are DD's b/f's favourites. DS isn't that keen on DD's b/f (too different to have any common ground whatsoever) and when I told him that, DS said "oh great, he even has the musical taste of a 52 year old woman."
Todd, Loved the bday cake story...mostly I loved how you wondered where it came from...LOL...sounds like you entertain yourself quite well despite your solo state. Yes, there are women who have SF as #1 EN...I personally could live without it but maybe if there were love and passion it would be another story, who knows...I haven't stopped with WS b/c like I told him...it is meaningless SF...an exercise without any emotion or meaning...I don't even trust WH to use it as an expression of love since I trust nothing and am always looking for the ulterior motive...strangely enough it's always there...
Pio, Snap out of it. You must be tired or lacking in challenges to occupy your thoughts. That is what happens to me...if I am mentally challenged I deal much better...if I perform brainless tasks all day I have way too much time to ponder all sorts of things. I am a master multitasker so it's like there is always a vacant brain cell or two hanging out annoying me b/c they wont stop thinking of WS issues or where he is, what he is doing, who he is with etc...it is like a subliminal mantra that haunts me. I can't imagine being in solitary...I would surely perish
Kiwi, Hope I haven't offended you. My philosophy is that we are all human and have the potential to be on either side and some of us have been on both sides...
I do feel that when on the wayward side the thinking is seriously distorted. Did you feel that you were thinking clearly when you were in the peak of your WW days? Can you think clear and the reasons for certain behaviors are serving a different purpose? Did you rationalize with yourself? Did you get caught up in lies or did you just omit things that incriminated you?
If I am asking too much just tell me to stop the interrogation. Just figured you may be able to shed light on these topics. You said someone else informed Rob...had you been planning on telling him since you said you didn't have the guts or did you figure that it would all catch up with you at some point. How did Rob find out initially?
You weren't around a few months ago, maybe you were I don't remember, but when I relapsed and renewed contact with the OM briefly, I had terrible fights with both Todd and Pio and things said then DID upset me. They were both SO disappointed in me it was very hard to take. They were also both fully justified in what they said to me then.
All I ever said is that I would want my WW to be honest and forthcoming with me. You were afraid of the consequences but your fear was unjustified.
Let's talk about Snap-on tools, muscle cars and Hurst shifters. I had a GTO in 1968 that had a 4.11 rear end with heavy duty positraction, Hurst close ratio shifter, 400 CI engine with Rochester quadrajet. RRRRrrrrggggghhhh!
Careful. You might upset stph20 if you talk too much about cars.
When you say positraction, do you mean limited slip differential?
I hope y'all make her welcome in the good ol' USA, y'hear.
Right after we fingerprint her and do a retinal scan. I do hope she isn't carrying any fruit. Congress recently passed the "Hillary Swank" law for you people.
I personally could live without it but maybe if there were love and passion it would be another story, who knows...I haven't stopped with WS b/c like I told him...it is meaningless SF...an exercise without any emotion or meaning...
To me the math is pretty simple. Before WW left, she was deceitful, dishonest, fogged and I was not happy. I was always suspiscious, doubting, snooping to some extent but mot much. I hated that life. Now she has been gone and, although I am not overly happy, the misery has definitely gone from my life. The immediate source of pain has disappeared.
She has been gone a few short weeks. I have no expectation that she will come back and we will have anything different. I fully expect we will go right back to where we were before she left. Explain to me why I should be happy about that or why I should want her back.
Or, in a nutshell, better the devil you know than the one in Mexico.
Pio, I for one will be sort of sorry that she's coming back. You have been a different person since she's been gone. A happy person.
They tell me that American coastal airports are probably the worst place you want to enter a country from but they've already done it once on their trip out. Auckland/SF/London.
"Did you feel that you were thinking clearly when you were in the peak of your WW days?"
2much, I can only give you one example that has always made me cringe with shame. Well, a lot of things back then make me cringe with shame, but this is it in a nutshell.
In my old job I was PA to the CEO of the company I worked for. Part of my job was to provide lunch for the board when they met. I mean these guys were IMPORTANT. The OM had been in at the office (as a client) and I arranged to meet him for lunch. Lunch coincided with when I was meant to be providing lunch for the board (usually ordered ahead of time and served on the best boardroom dinner service).
I went to the sandwich bar up the road, bought about 12 sandwiches, stuck them on a staff room plate and dumped them in front of the board. I nearly lost my job during the A for that sort of thing - which happened regularly.
My boss knew about the A but his patience wore very, very thin with me. He was the one who told me that he knew OM and thought he was completely crap at business and couldn't for the life of him see what I saw in him. When I told Rob that, after Dday, it was one of the best things he'd ever heard.
I was a completely different person during the A and I wasn't a person I liked.
Well on a different subject, I raised a huge stink yesterday about the 2nd grader on the Division D soccer team. She is now history. I also complained about the coach and his not obeying the rules and told the committee that he was going to get someone seriously hurt. He wrote me and says he has coached soccer before but never young children so he is somewhat lost. He asked for my help. I said of course. Practice is tonight. So now I get to coach both C and D divisions. That's 50 little girls now. Why couldn't I have kept my mouth shut? I guess I know why - because DD2 wants to play soccer but I want her to do it safely. Did I mention she had 4 saves last week?
In my old job I was PA to the CEO of the company I worked for.
That is horrible! You do know you can sue for sexual discrimination? The nerve of that man! Is that all he thought of you??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
LOL about the PA. Or do you mean running round getting lunch for men.
Funny story and I could have got him for sexual harrassment for this one but he was a good guy.
I was fixing his printer once and I was under his desk plugging in cables etc. He was sitting at his desk. My phone rang (on my desk outside his office). He picked it up on his phone and said "Jenny's phone - may I help you." The other person obviously spoke and then he said "Oh she can't talk right now - she's under my desk."
Back on the serious subject. I guess that is my point. I know I am not happy but the intense and constant pain is gone. Why do I want that back?
Okay (pollyanna here) she could come back and be totally repentant, totally dedicated to the M, wanting it all back, etc. Let's just take that hypothetical case that she is completely over the A and totally committed to the A and to me. It's not that simple. There has been a lot of damage done. I am talking post-A damage.
The only way WW and I can stay together is a) to just start all over from scratch and b) she changes to some extent.
LOL about the PA. Or do you mean running round getting lunch for men.
I meant about the PA. You know - the Monica Lewinsky syndrome that men in power have. I know what you meant by PA, however, in this context. Just couldn't resist. You were his Physician's Assistant.
To be honest, I don't think she's been gone long enough to have gone through a sea change
I don't either. Hence my dilemma. Basically I'm taking one for the team (i.e. the DDs). I hate that I have to do it. I hate ME for doing it. I guess in some way I am losing respect for myself by agreeing to let her come back.
Let's just hope she takes off the electric blanket...
Actually, his wife had an A which lasted about 5 minutes but he kicked her out. It changed him completely. I only worked for him after all that so I didn't know what he was like before but from the way he told it, he was the typical power crazed workaholic CEO.
Interestingly, his wife begged to come back 6 years after she left him. This all happened when I was working for him. He was in a new very happy relationship but it still threw him.
Have you spoken to her recently? Has there been any change in her attitude AT ALL?
Not since I bought her ticket and I have no real plans to talk to her before she gets here. I do intend to have the DDs call her every few days. I have no need to speak to her.
Last time I spoke to her she said she missed me very much and she loved me. I replied that we would see her soon. I don't think that was lost on her. She noticed. I just couldn't say any more than that.
She's very beautiful and doesn't look shallow at all BTW. I always think people's intelligence shines out of their eyes and she has intelligent eyes. (I spent quite a bit of time looking through your family photos as you can see).
To me the math is pretty simple. Before WW left, she was deceitful, dishonest, fogged and I was not happy. I was always suspiscious, doubting, snooping to some extent but mot much. I hated that life. Now she has been gone and, although I am not overly happy, the misery has definitely gone from my life. The immediate source of pain has disappeared.
She has been gone a few short weeks. I have no expectation that she will come back and we will have anything different. I fully expect we will go right back to where we were before she left. Explain to me why I should be happy about that or why I should want her back.
Or, in a nutshell, better the devil you know than the one in Mexico.
You obviously don't really want her to come back, so why are you letting her? I know what you said before about your vows and all that, but you both have to want the marriage for it to work.
Todd, you sound like you're done too, why are you still holding on?
You obviously don't really want her to come back, so why are you letting her? I know what you said before about your vows and all that, but you both have to want the marriage for it to work.
Because it is based on feelings. I can't make this kind of decision based on feelings. I am not picking the color I want for a new car.
I have two children whose lives will ever be affected by whatever decision I make. It is not just a matter of what I want. If it weren't for the children, it would be a simply choice. No I don't feel like having her back will be a good thing for me. My DDs do want her back. My feelings might change as well. Alot of that depends on her.
Sorry but I got interrupted. DD1 calls me about 10 times every morning before school.
But will it really be in the best interest of your daughters to grow up watching you in an unhappy marriage? I don't have kids, so please don't take offense. I don't know what I would do if I did have kids and were in your situation.
Things are going to be tough for you for a long time until you decide one way or the other.
That has to be the most pathetic thing you have ever said.
Cut me some slack. I say plenty of pathetic things. Too many to judge so quickly.
BTW,
I just want to apologize in advance. I may become very pathetic beginning Friday afternoon onwards. Fridays are always hard on me anyway (as 2much suggested - too much free time) but this will be my last Friday before WW is back. I am not sure what I am going to feel over those few days but I don't expect it to be joy and elation.
But will it really be in the best interest of your daughters to grow up watching you in an unhappy marriage?
No it wouldn't be and that will never happen. But who is to say that my M cannot be recovered, given time. I believe in MB principles to a large extent. I just refuse to drink the kool-aid.
Using MB guidelines and, assuming we both want it, I do believe we could have a very happy marriage in time. If not, we divorce. But since I don't have a crystal ball, I can't know right now.
I understand that, but are you going to wait until after she comes back to decide you want it? I honestly believe your M can be recovered, but it doesn't sound like you want it to recover right now and I just think you both have to want it, if you follow MB or not. Wanting it is the first step.
Who decided she was coming home already? You haven't been in Plan B that long, have you? Did she show any remorse before she left?
I have enjoyed very much reading the last five or seven pages, lol. It was very interesting, Saturdays and Sundays calm suit you'll. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Pio,
It may help you to concentrate on your part of the marriage, in the things you can change about the way you react to her actions. The impression I get is that for some reason you have a clear picture of what is not acceptable from her but at the same time you can't say clearly what you need from her.
Justjulie said today that she has to learn to talk about issues from a present-future point of view instead of past-resentments point of view.
You are not satisfied with the way things were in the past, not only affair related and maybe you feel that you have to change everything that bothered you about her in the past.
Because of the damaged caused by the affair you 'read' G actions from a defensive point of view and you don't listen to what she says but what you think she's really wanting or thinking and althought you could have done that during the affair, it may be safer if you tried to listen to her, make her questions about her thoughts and desires and explain to her why you need her to explain herself clearly to you.
Avoid thinking on Pool Boy and avoid mentions of him to her in your talks with her. He's past history.
When you say positraction, do you mean limited slip differential?
Dang, you're a bigger nerd that I thought. HD positraction by gawd. Hurst close ratio shifter. 400 ci engine. Hey, how many liters is that? It was on the side of my GTO and I still cannot remember.
Two years is the minimum for recovery. The range is 2-5 years and some couples don't R or heal withing the normal range. R of the marriage and healing of the BS are not dependent on time only. They say time heals all wounds but that is only partialy true. It also takes hard work. It is one reason why you need to fixate more on yourself, your ego and healing, as opposed to WH and what he is thinking or saying this week.
And I would so be willing to do the work, if he would only do it with me. I could work for however long it takes, as long as he wasn't talking divorce. But that's all he keeps talking about. He's not going back and forth at all. He wants a divorce. Not much I can do about that, except Plan A, which I'm working on as much as I can.
I liked the lyrics you posted. I saw a little bit of the video but my conection doesn't help to hear all the song continously.
It's interesting you mentioned Eric Fromm. He had a researching institution in the 70's in Cuernavaca, the same city where Pio took Spanish classes. One of Fromm 'students' is now a prominent media Psyquiatr* and he has managed to keep a scientific standar even in the stream of media demands. He came from Italy to study with Fromm and has written some books. Guisepe Amara is his name. My first 'psy' book was Lost Fear of Freedom, I don't know how is the title in English. I find his reflection mostly still with vigence in todays world.
OMG, I just had a thought. OW was supposed to leave her BF at the end of the month...which would be today...what do I do if she did? And how will I know...starting to panic a little.
Todd, you sound like you're done too, why are you still holding on?
Am I still holding on? If I am holding on, somebody shoot me, would you please? WW called again tonight. I had just talked to DS1 and I thought it was he calling back. It was WW. Drunk. I hung up on her. She kept calling back and I ignored her.
I think when the WS is talking about divorce and Plan B is not in effect some BS have used the 180º list.
This would be a nice pretext to call out BELIEVER and ask her if she would mind to post the link to the list, please? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Pio are you video recording your DD's first games?
I can't. I'm coaching. That means I am running all over the field during the game directing traffic. With small children, you don't coach from the sideline. I also have to deal with hurt knees and hurt hurt feelings. We have one goalie who just bawls if anyone scores on her - and she is a terrible goalie so it happens quite a lot. So I am somewhat of a motivational speaker too on the field.
I'm really freaking out right now, because if she does/did move out, then they'll have all kinds of time to spend together...I think I'm going to throw up...
I honestly believe your M can be recovered, but it doesn't sound like you want it to recover right now and I just think you both have to want it, if you follow MB or not. Wanting it is the first step.
Actually Stef, in all reality, this is not necessarily true at first. Trust me on that.
I know the pain is unbearable but them spending all kinds of time together is good for you and bad for the A. The A is exciting because it is fantasy. Once WH has to take on domestic responsibilities, the A isn't so much fun any more. BF leaving and giving WH free reign is a good thing to have happen, IMO. Even better is if OW and WH live together. They will really learn to hate each other then.
The A can't last. You have not really exposed it all that much so it still has the veil of secrecy. OW promises the world to WH. WH wants the world. Now OW has to deliver on those promises. She can't. If WH is in financial troubles and tried to get OW's help, watch out. BF has been an enabler of your WH's affair. It is good that he is gone because he can no longer help the A.
Even if BF has not encouraged the affair actively, he has supported it passively by not kicking the living sh*t out of your WH. Sorry but that is what he should have done.
OMG, I just had a thought. OW was supposed to leave her BF at the end of the month...which would be today...what do I do if she did? And how will I know...starting to panic a little.
Ummmm Stef - thanks for holding out on this info. Please tell me you exposed to OWBF?
Stef - if he wanted a divorce he would have filed by now. Ignore what he SAYS. Get this through into your brain.
Let's just keep in mind that MB is, by definition, a pro-marriage site. We all need to keep it in that perspective.
BigK is right. If I knew divorce were my only recourse, I would have already chosen that last December. I didn't. Let's leave it at that. I can D any time I want. I can only R now. Better not to say anything else about it.
BTW, Yes according to her thread, she did finally expose to OWBF. He was really nice about it. It is likely the reason OWBF is moving out but I don't know that for sure.
Todd, sorry about the phone calls from a drunk WW, that s*cks.
Hey larousse,
I am used to it by now. She already had a drinking problem before DD. Now she is a full fledged alcoholic. I am done. I have tried to help to no avail. It is up to her now.
Todd - there are countless cases on MB - Bob Pure, Myself, many cases where the WS didn't want recovery but wanted a divorce. Obviously they have to change their minds about this at some point but not right off the bat.
For Bob Pure - his wife was vicious to him but she stayed in their house. The affair was smashed and after she pulled her head out they were able to recover.
My wife came home because she knew what she was doing was making God very angry. It was aweful having her home in one sense but a relief in another because at least I knew she was not with OM any more. She committed to trying fairly readily.
Clearly to recover, you have to have 2 willing partners but this is by no means a pre-requisite.
In your wife's case, there's an addiction to alcohol to deal with. I seriously suggest you should not even consider recovery until that is dealt with. Have you contacted AA and discussed an intervention? Sorry if I am speaking out of turn and you may have already tried that.
Todd - maybe you are truely done. Your wife sounds as foggy as any I have heard on here. But if you deal with the alcoholism then who knows what is possible. I don't know if she still sees OM. But deal with the addiction and then see if recovery is possible.
That is actually a very useful recap for me. I cannot imagine WW ever seeking or even accepting help for her alcoholism. If she would, it could be a critical first step. Our conversation tonight set us back months if not years.
For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 2. No frequent phone calls. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage. 4. Do not follow her around the house. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. 6. Do not ask for help from family members. 7. Do not ask for reassurances. 8. Do not buy gifts. 9. Do not schedule dates together. 10. Do not spy on spouse. 11. Do not say "I Love You". 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive. 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while). 21. Never lose your cool. 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic. 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger). 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out. 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy. 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared. 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
Todd - an Intervention by AA is more like a kidnapping - it requires the cooperation of everyone who cares about your WW - your 3 sons and you for instance. Plus anyone else who cares about her destroying herself. It doesn't require her cooperation as I understand it.
Our three sons know she has a drinking problem or is an alcoholic, but kidnapping? I cannot see them agreeing to that. WW is able to handle the excessive drinking well. She goes to work each day and functions, etc. She gets that from her Dad undoubtedly.
Well I said more like a kidnapping. LOL. It's more involved than just asking her. Why don't you contact them and get some details. Obviously they can't do anything against her will. I have no idea how it works in practice but my understanding is it works very well.
I don't think Stef should do a 180° yet - she needs to do a good Plan A.
I absolutely agree. I did use parts of the 180 plan on and off and, I think, to great effect. But I would never consider using any of the 180 plan until WH has committed to NC and then is stuck in withdrawal. A rock solid Plan A is a definite prerequisite.
I generally used the bits of the 180 plan I needed when NC was violated. Prior to NC, I think 180 is counter productive.
Lol. Yeah, much to his chagrin. I have done my part to keep the stars to a minimum, or in my case nonexistent, but heck, it persists. It is a testament to Pio. But then again, maybe I will stick my finger down my throat.
I have said this before. You guys show me just as much respect as gemela does. Why should I expect anything different? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I've been thinking a lot about the electric blanket. I know it makes me mad when she takes it off but I confess I never really POJA'ed putting it on in the first place. So maybe it is my fault.
I decided that I am going to leave the blanket on the bed but fold her half over onto my side. That seems fair.
I have a different issue over a new grill. We have an Arkla grill (HD made in USA) that was designed for gas that we bought in Dubai. The sun has taken its toll on the grill as it does on everything here. The plastic handle is long gone. Gas is hard to find here so I took out the burner and jets and converted it to charcoal when we arrived. It is not the prettiest grill in the world but it works.
There is one store we go into for electronics that also features a small display of Weber grills. WW always wants to buy a new Weber grill which, while new and pretty looking, won't last a month here. It is about $300 and simply not worth $30. I like my old grill just find. I want to use it until it rots away to dust. WW wants the new grill (like she looks at the old one all the time). I swear every time she goes over and looks at those grills, I just want to scream.
I'll compromise on the blanket but never on the grill.
You have to draw the line somewhere.
BTW, something KiwiJ said today has really busted me pretty hard.
Sorry to do that. Seriously what hit me was KiwiJ did the night before PA day.
I have never spoken to WW about this but after going back and seeing when the cell phone calls started (first was about midnight I'm sure of the first night of the pA), I also looked at our LD records. For about 5 days up to the start of the phone calls, I saw multiple calls every day to her best friend in Dubai. Prior to that she talked to her maybe once a month or every other month. Suddenly there is the barrage of calls to best friend. The calls die. That night, first call to OM's cell phone. Then, after that up to 11 calls a day to said cell phone for months until I questioned the bill.
So I am sure WW was calling best friend to "get permission". I am guessing best friend told her no. That's why the calls to BF stopped so suddenly after they had started. I know BF. She is also a BS. She hates affairs.
Anyway, I know WW planned it well in advance. I've never said anything before now but KiwiJ's comment brought that back to me. It doesn't mean much other than to remind me how cold and calculating the (any) WW is during the A.
Yep, that is how I have come to view you all. I tell you stuff I wouldn't dare reveal to my blood family and nearest dearest friends...isn't that kinda strange but perfect at the same time? Anyway, I have to start by saying thanks for being here for me.
Todd - definitely get with AA on the "intervention" stuff; maybe you need to have a family mtg with an AA interventionist so that they can Q&A with all prior to any real action. At this point it would be a positive step in attempting to help your WW.
My philosophy, even with my WH since I still love him is that if at minimum he can deal with his personal demons and his addiction to OWs (which are based on his unresolved childhood issues) and recover from that I would be happy even if it didn't save our M. I just want WH to be able to love himself which is the crux of our issues...if you can't even love yourself, who can you love the way God intends for you to love? I don't think M R is possible until WH gets to this point anyway. I'm sure it is the same with your WW...if she can't treat her own body, mind, spirit with love, respect and truth she will never be able to do this with anyone else either. AA is the best chance for her now.
Pio-scarey for you with time closing in. Celebrate and spend these last days with DDs doing fun and memorable things...you both will cherish the memories you have created forever. DDs will look back and use these memories to comfort them in rough times and good times...they will become table talk in future holiday meals when DDs are grown. Make sure to finish this alone time with DDs with a bang. This will keep you busy enough during the downhill stretch.
Don't think about G's return. Let it just happen. Do what Larousse said and pay attention to how you act/react to G's words and actions. Set a trial timeframe like you set on me and let G prove/disprove with her own plan/actions. You should give her enough space to soar or hang herself. This will be crucial time for you to try and not LB and be warm and inviting and to allow her the opportunity to be a good wife and mom...it will be her choice to make that happen.
You will most likely encounter parenting conflicts since you have your routine with DDs...try and be a bit flexible. Often times when folks return from deployments the get pretty depressed when they return home and realize that their entire role was eliminated and the home ran successfully without them. The realize in some respects that they aren't a necessary part of the functioning of the family...they don't see themselves as being "needed". What they see is only superficial...they have missed the tears and sadness and struggles that have ensued to make the home function without them. Just keep this in mind.
Stph20, Did you throw up? I never did but wish I had...I hate that lingering nausea and the elevator sensation that happens everytime you discover a new lie or indiscretion. Don't know if you had any extra weight you wanted to shed but the good news is that the infidelity diet is alarmingly effective. Why don't they advertise it???? I got rid of that extra 15 pounds that I could never lose after having the kids. You too can be svelte without even trying! See there is always a positive for every negative.
Have you heard from WH? Pio is right if A is still going on don't even try the 180...for my H it made his life even better yet...no questions, no M talk, all while I was cheerful and pleasant...he saw no consequences to his actions and this plan just enabled it even more. You have to wait for definite NC for this plan or use it after you have given Plan A serious time and effort. Plan A you share how the A is devastating you/family...you don't whine and cry but you frankly let the WS know each time something happens how it affects you..."When I saw you with OW I felt betrayed...I felt our M was violated and it broke my heart that you chose to spend your time with OW"
Kiwi, Thanks for sharing the info...it helps
BK, What's up?
Hi Nams and Larousse, you are both full of great advice. Thanks for input and humor
Gotta run to soccer tourney...DD1 is awesome and finals are today.
That is really good advise about your Plan A limits. People pounded that into me constantly. You don't criticize and LB the WS saying "that" is wrong or I can't believe you're doing "this", etc. But it is okay to say. You did "that" and it really makes ME feel..... It is okay to talk about your feelings but not criticize the WS's actions. Just talk about how they affect you. That is permitted in Plan A and is not a DJ or LB. It is okay that the WS knows he/she is devastating the BS.
It's a rainy day here so we all spent extra time cozied up in bed.
Todd, me a great cook? Tee hee, don't think so. But I appreciate the compliment. I'm all about simplicity in cooking & I can't bake.
A word about how alcoholism affected ex's family: His father is a recovering alcoholic. Mostly successful but has relapsed a few times. His mother was an enabler & a closet alcoholic.
When our boys were small we spent lots of time with them. The mother & father separated (whole 'nother story, not dissimilar to my M break up) & the mother would sometimes have my oldest son stay over night. After one over night I asked son about what they did. He said grandma spent LOTS of time in the bathroom, she is a smoker also, & he talked about behavior that made it sound like she was drunk or at least doing too much drinking. This a week or so after she helped me bring the 3 boys to a DR. appointment at 1:00 in the afternoon during which it was clear she'd been drinking & the DR. brought it up to me.
ex & I compossed a letter saying we felt she had a drinking problem, said we would support her in any way we could. Until such time she took action we would not allow the boys to be alone with her.
Complete denial & RAGE. Over the following month both ex & I tried to find a way to keep a relationship with both her& the father. But the father said what ever mother wanted he would abide by. He's a weak man who desperately wanted his W back. The mother placed a good deal of blame on me& I was the first to go. Second she cut ex out from her life. He is their only living child. His brother died at 21 years old due to life long illness, my boy were their only grandchildren.
There is NO relationship between ex & his parents or between my boys & his parents. The mother has cut everyone except the H out of her life. This to allow her to drink & live the "life" she has created for herself.
Now, I do beleive there is a good dose of mental illness involved here, this makes me frightened for my boys & I do hope ex realizes & addresses this for his own mental health.
Much of this is centered around alocholism (some on the type of personality/character she has that allows her to deny) & the hold it has. ex's mother also functions in her way which is how she can deny she has a problem. Her rewritten history, the husband's enabling, all help to allow her to continue on.
Pio, I don't wonder why you're down & wondering why you're allowing WW to return to SA. I see it this way: You want to keep your family whole for the sake of your girls. At one time you felt such a bond with G you remember that & want that back, in different form perhaps but as strong.
The situation may not be exactly as you'd like it but that's to be expected because this is G's life too so control is something you don't have.
Seems to me you have a really good handle on what you need from G to create & new, better M. Can't do a whole lot more that that really. I think uncertainty always makes us uncomfortable & leaves us questioning & wondering.
I like 2much's advice about approaching G's behavior from the moment moving forward not from the past.
Hey Todd, do you know "Brilliant Disguise " by Bruce Springstein? One of my favorites or favourites for Kiwi. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I'm concerned about the care package I've sent you. Tell me if you think it will make it. I've included my crock pot along with the ingedients to the dinner I made last night; chicken, peas, corn, garlic, black beans & peach mango salsa, not chutney.
I've precooked it so that when it reaches you all you have to do is warm it up. Since I didn't want there to be too much condensation making the dish watery I've left the top off the crock pot.
I put it right side up in the box with instructions on the box to keep upright & to handle with care. I sent it third class because I thought that would slow down the handling & lessen the likelihood of tipping.
If it smells funny maybe you shouldn't eat it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Hi larousse, I've heard back from my painter friend. She suggested you put the painting in the sun for a day, mold side to the sun, to kill the mold. Brush off the dry mold with a soft brush, use a mask. It's certainly cheaper than a restorer & less tramatic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sinse I'm so clearly the only one here I'm headed to the studio to get some work done. Be back later.
Hey Todd, do you know "Brilliant Disguise " by Bruce Springstein?
Yes, great song and lyrics. I saw Bruce with others on an old Roy Orbison and Friends television show. It included Jackson Browne, Elvis Costello and others. Anyway, I knew Springsteen played guitar but I had no idea how good he is. He played a solo that was fantastic.
Third class worked like a charm. The postal service just delivered it. They said normally they would wait ten days or so just for good measure but being the box was so wet, they wanted it out of their facility and in mine.
This place must have crockpot radar. They have alread confiscated the crock pot and its contents. It must be good. They didn't bring any back to me. But thank you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~in wafts the Aquanet~~~~~ I sprayed on extry just for my fine silly foreign friend, piojitas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd, there is no such thing as an "AA intervention." AA has nothing to do with that. AA is a voluntary [usually] program for alcoholics who are there to quit drinking. I don't know anyone who got to AA via an intervention, but I know lots of folks who got there when they hit their bottom or when they were forced there by a judge, employer, or spouse. All of which have [usually] LEVERAGE or power over the alcoholic.
I don't know your situation, but I do know that Plan A is about the WORST thing you can do with an alcholic and Dr. Harley does not recommend it. Plan A is simply a new opportunity for exploitation for the alcoholic. It will not endear the alcoholic to the BS, because the alcoholic does not have normal emotions and reactions. Plan A=ENABLING in the case of an addict.
The best plan for someone married to an alcoholic is a very dark Plan B and the complete absence of enabling. All money should be cut off. Anything that will help the alcoholic hit bottom is helpful.
For yourself, I would recommend Alanon. They can teach you how to live a productive life while married to an alcoholic. Actually, they teach you to see through all our bullcrap, which is why we hate them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I honestly believe your M can be recovered, but it doesn't sound like you want it to recover right now and I just think you both have to want it, if you follow MB or not. Wanting it is the first step.
Actually Stef, in all reality, this is not necessarily true at first. Trust me on that.
How can you recover something or fight for something that you don't even want? What's the motivation?
I can do Plan A all I want, but I can't make WH want our marriage to work, and if I try to make our M work, he's going to resist every effort I make, because he knows what I'm doing and doesn't want me to change his mind.
I know the pain is unbearable but them spending all kinds of time together is good for you and bad for the A. The A is exciting because it is fantasy. Once WH has to take on domestic responsibilities, the A isn't so much fun any more. BF leaving and giving WH free reign is a good thing to have happen, IMO. Even better is if OW and WH live together. They will really learn to hate each other then.
The A can't last. You have not really exposed it all that much so it still has the veil of secrecy. OW promises the world to WH. WH wants the world. Now OW has to deliver on those promises. She can't. If WH is in financial troubles and tried to get OW's help, watch out. BF has been an enabler of your WH's affair. It is good that he is gone because he can no longer help the A.
Even if BF has not encouraged the affair actively, he has supported it passively by not kicking the living sh*t out of your WH. Sorry but that is what he should have done.
I have exposed to everybody we know, why is that not enough?
But, what if they do start spending more time together and really do fall in love? They already think they are, I don't know what can convince either of them that they're not.
Stef - if he wanted a divorce he would have filed by now. Ignore what he SAYS. Get this through into your brain.
I'm TRYING to ignore what he says.
He says he would have filed already if he didn't have to have the 6 month separation period and he could afford a lawyers retainer. Those are the only reasons he's still married to me at this point.
BTW, Yes according to her thread, she did finally expose to OWBF. He was really nice about it. It is likely the reason OWBF is moving out but I don't know that for sure.
I did expose to BF and to OW's mother.
WH said, if anything, I made OW leaving BF easier...I'm not sure how that works, but whatever.
She is the one that's moving out. She's supposed to be moving in with her parents with her son.
WH said, if anything, I made OW leaving BF easier...I'm not sure how that works, but whatever.
She is the one that's moving out. She's supposed to be moving in with her parents with her son.
You mean she is SAYING she is "moving out." Talk is cheap with a WS, Steph. Words do not equal action. Further, if the affair destroys her relationship with her BF and she is forced to move in with her parents, that will cause nothing but conflict in the affair. It will also place great pressure on your H to take her in with the OW's child. That will be another blow to the affair.
Do you think you would like to have to move back with your mother? hmmmmm
It's her choice to leave BF and move in with her parents.
And my H is currently living with his mother, so they can't go live with him.
Well, yes they could go and live with him. He is not endentured to live with his mother. He can go and get an apartment any time he wants. And I seriously doubt she "chose" to go live with her mother because she adores her mother, but because she has no other choice. Most folks don't choose that unless they have to.
So, don't look at this as a bad thing, but a GOOD THING. This will put pressure on your H to take her and her child in. And no adult LIKES going back and living with their parents.
I'm still not following...how is it a good thing? They both chose to live with their mothers because that's a better alternative to being with BF and me.
I believe ex was having an affair while we were married. It was never confirmed but through his behavior after we separated & the fact he moved in with his gf (into her house) two weeks after the D was final I feel I can say he was cheating in either an EA or PA.
They worked together for years & still do. ex is 43 she is about 36 - 38 from what my kids say. She has never married & does not have kids. I thought once the reality of having to negotiate kids & having my boys around when she's used to not sharing would be a cold dose of reality. Especially because she was very resentful of time ex spent with the boys & showed much inflexability regarding his time with them.
Anyway, he moved in with her Jan. of '06 & is still with her. I'm guessing they're "soul mates", puke.
Todd, do you know the Proposers? It's a Scottish group. I don't know the name of the song but it includes the words 500 miles. Let me know if you know it OK?
I'm glad you got my care package but sorry they took away the crock pot.
This is a joke BTW for those worried I actually did send Todd a care package.
stph, Mel is saying moving in with one's mother is like a splash of cold water in the adulterer's faces because they have gone BACKWARDS in their independence. Can't last long and will cause resentment between the adulterers. Right Mel?
Anyway, he moved in with her Jan. of '06 & is still with her. I'm guessing they're "soul mates", puke.
That's like yesterday Nams - the affair will crumble. Just give it time. I know you are done but don't be surprised when WXH comes crawling back begging for another chance.
Melody - no they aren't high schoolers, they just act it. During our year of "recovery" I got many hang up calls & a couple of very strange calls in which people were trying to get information about me & ex. Since I believe he was cheating I think it was the gf calling. Yeah, high school. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
He's her problem now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
From most of our POV's, OW moving out, regardless of where she goes, is a good thing. The worst part from your POV is that OW and WH will spend even more time together. As a BS, I know that pain. It hurts. But from the standpoint of the A, it is a serious blow. Affairs are wonderful because they are so neat and clean. In an A, the affairees don't have to clean up vomit, don't have to sit around and pay bills, don't have to clean the toilet bowls, etc. They leave the dirty work to us BS's while they go out and have fun. When you look at it that way, who wouldn't want to have an A?
In my WW's case, she left her family behind, all the house chores, fighting with the kids while she ran off nad had a romp in the sack with the pool boy. All their afternoons together were spent lounging around the pool. No stress.
But if my WW actually had to go live with pool boy (he lives with his parents BTW) either where he is or else they got a tiny apartment in some counsel housing in York, he's gone all day at work and she sits around doing nothing or else she has to go to work so they can pay their bills and buy her shoes, there is a lot of stress that goes along with that.
Your H is trying to escape your M to avoid all the things he doesn't like about M. But in going and spending more time with OW, he is jumping into the same situation he is trying to avoid. All he is doing is changing the player but not the game. Your problem is that you think OW is better, more attractive, funnier, smarter, more desireable than you. You think she is your competition. She is not the competition.
Let them be together 24/7. Once that happens, the luster of the A will quickly fade. They won't fall in love. They are already in love. But they will begin to hate each other. A's don't last. Let BigK quote you the statistics. Afairees despise everything that keeps them apart. But the things that keep them apart are what keep them together. Affairs, once moved into reality, are usually pretty unpleasant things.
Both live with their parents. Hard to set up household there. OW is leaving her job. WH is strapped for money. You tell us his number one EN is to get out of financial problems. What do you think he will have once he tries to support OW and child?
You know bigK there was a time when I REALLY wanted ex to come crawling back. Now it would just be so sad to know the waste of it all & the destruction to my boys' family.
What I hope for ex is that he can pull his head out of his [censored] & see what he needs to work on to really have the intimacy he craves in his life. I want that so he & the boys can have good relationships.
I will admit the crawling back bit would give me a certain satisfaction...but it would be bittersweet & short lived. And yes, I am done.
Thanks KiwiJ. I really bugs me that a Texan would call me piojitAs rather than piojitOs. After all, Spanish is the national language of Texas. You can't go into a 7-11 without it. She's just being mean <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Thanks KiwiJ. I really bugs me that a Texan would call me piojitAs rather than piojitOs. After all, Spanish is the principal language of Texas. She's just being mean <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
sheesh, and all this time I thought the "principal language" of Texas was English! MY BAD!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And yes, I am meaner than a junkyard dawg, but that wasn't an example! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
nams, isn't it amazing how waywards use the same phrases as silly teenage girls? "soulmates," indeed! lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Stef - Pio has weighed in with incredible insight there. He is completely correct.
After D-Day my wife left me and OM'sW kicked him to the kerb. My wife stayed with a friend and he stayed with a friend as well.
One of the things they both recognised was that the affair was operating in a bubble. Exposure was powerful in them ending it. Reality got in the way.
I was out of my mind knowing that my wife was able to spend as much time as she wanted with OM. But they had no fun. Suddenly it wasn't fun anymore. The affair ended 2 days after she left me. She was gone for a total of 2 weeks. OM love-busted her stupid when she told him she was coming home. OM'sW refused to have him back at that time.
MelodyLane and Pio are right - LOTS of conflict in the affair will be caused by them having more time together.
Let's face it Stef - The marriage you had is gone. You might yet get a chance to re-build a new marriage with your husband. But the worst has already happened. He's gone and he is screwing OW. How much worse do you think it will be even if they shack up? It's a good thing if they do this. Nothing like a little reality to ruin the illusions.
Stef - Do a good Plan A. Be consistent and patient. The worse thing from your perspective that can happen is you will be totally over your husband and well placed to move on if he doesn't come home. You will be a much better partner for someone who will love cherish and appreciate you. I don't see a down side here.
Yes, I really thought you'd sent a care package, all unwrapped and third class mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Pio and BigK, the whole point is that even though it was deliberate I had to make a huge leap of conscience and ethics to tell my mind I could do it. It was a slow dawning that I was going to go down that path, not a sudden overnight decision. When I made my vows to Rob I intended to keep them forever and knew that I would never have SF with another man.
But, as a BS does it make sense that I'm worried? Some of these A's do work out and I'm scared that WH's is going to be one of them.
I don't think I'm viewing OW as competition. I've told WH that I'm prettier, sexier, a better cook, a better "housekeeper", and an overall better wife. I've told him that she's nothing but a white-trailer trash homewrecker and she'll do the same thing to him, because she's done it before. I told him that I'm the best he's ever had and the best he'll ever have. I've told him countless times that he's making a huge mistake if he D's me and he'll regret it for the rest of his life.
All of this, of course, was before I knew of Plan A and his fog.
I haven't mentioned any of these things, since I've learned, but I honestly believe them.
I know I'm way better than her...could be a reason why I'm not mad (????). What 35 year old can't get her stuff together enough to move out on her own, especially when she's got a kid?? I apparently earn more than or as much as she does, so I completely agree with the financial troubles they're going to have, because he's got to pay me since he left me with a house I can't afford.
I just don't want him coming back based solely on financial reasons.
Does it occur to anyone that WS's only come back because the "something better" didn't work out? Or do they usually come back because they honestly want the M to work? I don't want him to "settle" for me just because his fling with her didn't work.
Works out. Hmm. I think it's like oh I dunno less than 10% of affairs result in marriage. And 75% of those fail within 5 years. Yep - they work our real good. Maybe someone can correct my percentages.
Stef - All affairs end. They really do. There are a few very rare exceptions.
Pio and BigK, the whole point is that even though it was deliberate I had to make a huge leap of conscience and ethics to tell my mind I could do it. It was a slow dawning that I was going to go down that path, not a sudden overnight decision. When I made my vows to Rob I intended to keep them forever and knew that I would never have SF with another man.
That is why I shook with horror.
Then why do it? Why didn't you allow yourself to stop when you knew you were getting too far in? Don't get mad at my questions, these are some things I asked WH and he didn't know the answers, so maybe you can give me some insight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
The affair ended 2 days after she left me. She was gone for a total of 2 weeks. OM love-busted her stupid when she told him she was coming home. OM'sW refused to have him back at that time.
None of this madness makes any sense. But it is predictable. That is what we are trying to tell you. Don't try to understand it. Just try to anticipate it.
I gave up trying to understand why WW had an affair with a pool boy long ago. She could have done much better.
Works out. Hmm. I think it's like oh I dunno less than 10% of affairs result in marriage. And 75% of those fail within 5 years. Yep - they work our real good. Maybe someone can correct my percentages.
Stef - All affairs end. They really do. There are a few very rare exceptions.
I'm not waiting 5 years for him to get his head out of his a**!!
I just don't want him coming back based solely on financial reasons.
Does it occur to anyone that WS's only come back because the "something better" didn't work out? Or do they usually come back because they honestly want the M to work? I don't want him to "settle" for me just because his fling with her didn't work.
OK Stef, I'm POSITIVE I've said this before. Listen up (AGAIN)
YOU DON'T CARE WHY he comes back
It's ENOUGH that he COMES BACK at first.
Be glad if he comes back regardless of the reason because it gives you a chance to recover. He won't STAY for those reasons long term even if he comes home for those reasons.
IF he comes home, you work your butt off filling his love bank and recovering so he STAYS because he is in love with you and you with him.
Seriously, it's enough just to have him back in your house at the beginning. If you can't accept that, divorce him now and move on with your life because I guarantee he will come home with less than noble intentions spewing venom and fog. It doesn't last. Eventually, he will suffer a lot for his dumb choices.
It was a slow dawning that I was going to go down that path, not a sudden overnight decision
Obviously I have never talked to WW about this. From first meeting OM to falling madly in love (and into bed) was about 2 weeks give or take. I can see in my mind her calling BF and telling her she had met her soulmate. I can see BF telling her that, if she is not happy, get a divorce. I can see WW struggling with BF for days until she makes the decision that had already been made and invites OM over to dinner. I would love to post the telephone call pattern. Let me work on that today and upload it tonight. I have it graphed in some interesting ways. It looks just like a high school girl calling her first boyfriend.
I hope I don't offend anyone by posting it. If WW sees it and gets offended, I really don't care. She won't see it though.
I wouldn't wait 5 years either. He11 I probably wouldn't have waited 6 months - I didn't find MB for around 8 weeks after D-Day and my wife was already back home. I was of the opinion at that point that we could not recover. MB saved my marriage.
Yes, well that's the 60 million dollar question isn't it.
Because I was totally and completely obsessed by him and thought he would leave his w and we would ride off into the sunset together.
Everything everyone is saying is true, stph. It's fantasy, it's not real, it can't last when the reality of really LIVING the fantasy comes into it.
Say the OM and I had got together. The reality would have been ex spouses that hated us, kids that hated us, legal stuff, business stuff and day to day stuff. The A was based on romantic meetings and living a "this is all so romantic and star crossed" life.
Because stph, they don't STAY for those reasons. They have to have something in their minds to bring them back. Even if it is "for the kids", you cannot recover until they are back home and in NC. Ask Jen, I had one of the worst WH's and he has completely turned around now.
This is exactly right. Don't ever forget this. If he does come back, you will eventually get what you want.
Don't expect him to come back crawling on his knees crying and begging your forgiveness and swearing his undieing love.
I could write a chapter on why I think that can't happen but I won't bore you all. Him coming back to you will likely be quite painful for him and that won't be because of you. You will have to cut him some slack on this.
Your objective is to get him back. Then begin to work on the relationship. Give yourselves time to heal and then think about recovering the M and then follow BigK's roadmap to a blissful marriage. Things have to happen in a certain order. Remember there is no quick fix for this. Affairs happen quickly. Recovery takes time.
Pio, I'd rather not see it if you don't mind. My cellphone records look much the same
I'll just post the URL with a very clear warning message for you to avoid it.
What gets me is one graph where I plotted the calls by time of day. This graph convinced me they were her calls. I loved the bit where she called him every night when I was in the shower.
Now, before everyone yells at me again (ahem, BigK), let me be clear and state that I totally get Kiwi's post. I really do.
BUT, in MY situation, they have already had "serious" life talks. About what, I'm not sure, but apparently they have talked about legal issues between me and WH and legal issues between OW and BF, dealing with their son and CS. They are prepared for all of this. Now I understand the fantasy world they're in, but it seems to me they're in reality too. True? And WH has told me (even though I'm not supposed to listen to him), that even if things between him and OW don't work out, he still wants to leave me. My ? about this is, is this still considered "fog" talk?
Stef - are you saying you can't tell when someone is in love with you?
No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying I don't trust anything anymore and not sure that I can. He lied to me for 2 months before I found out about the A and did it quite well. I just don't know anything anymore.
BUT, in MY situation, they have already had "serious" life talks. About what, I'm not sure, but apparently they have talked about legal issues between me and WH and legal issues between OW and BF, dealing with their son and CS. They are prepared for all of this. Now I understand the fantasy world they're in, but it seems to me they're in reality too. True? And WH has told me (even though I'm not supposed to listen to him), that even if things between him and OW don't work out, he still wants to leave me. My ? about this is, is this still considered "fog" talk?
Ok, even though I feel invisible on this thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> let me answer this one. Stph, they all do. My FWH discussed with his first OW about her moving here (long distance A) so he could be close to the kids and her getting a transfer for her job. I discussed certain "plans" with my FOM (gag) and my FWH discussed legalities and details with OW #2. It is part of the fantasy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Thanks, Jen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Posting to 2much has brought me back to posting more on MB. I forgot how much time it sucks away LOL
My wife and OM made plans to leave their spouses and live with each other. Detailed plans. They canvassed amongst themselves the likely reactions of friends and relatives.
They were "in love" and wanted to be with each other.
I discovered their affair 4 weeks before they would have done this.
I get frustrated because you time and again dwell on what your WS says. DO NOT LISTEN to fog-babble talk from your WS. It is meaningless.
Even if/when he comes home, look at what he does, not what he says.
I know not to listen to him, but first of all, that's a hard lesson to learn, especially being so new at this. Second of all, he's so convincing that I can't help but believe him. Third of all, it hurts so much when I talk to him and he's either talking D, or LBing me to death with talk of the bills and how I can't pay them, I get so upset, that I can't help it. I'm working on it.
Thanks for your reply. I didn't realize that they all did discuss their "future" together. I feel better, knowing my WH is the same, more or less, as the rest of them.
They HAVE to talk future together. That is part of what keeps the A alive. If they don't believe they have a future, how can they be soulmates.
My gemela had all sorts of "plans" with OM. She planned to move to pack her bags and move to York. He planned to get a small apartment where they could live. He was also going to buy a car. I am sure the apartment was four floors with 6 bedrooms in their talks. All the bathroom fixtures gilded. I am sure his car was a limousine. Even their future talks are based in fantasy.
One night I had had enough. I told gemela to pack her bags and leave. I packed one for her. I got down to brass tacks. I asked her if she needed a divorce right away or wanted to wait awhile. I asked her where they would live and how they would handle visitation with the kids. I asked if they planned to get married or just live together.
Although they had had all these future plan talks in quiet whispers on their shared pillow, when it came down to it, she could not answer one single question. She simply had no friggin clue. And I could tell by the look on her face that she wasn't lying. She was totally perplexed that she could not answer a single question about their planned future.
Everything they talked about was intended to keep the fantasy alive. They never talked about a reality future. Do you know what? I felt truly sorry for her in that moment. I realized that she had decided to give up her life for nothing. I remember it as if it were yesterday.
What I feel impassioned to convey to new BS is that almost NOTHING they can do will make the situation worse. Their loved spouse is banging an OP and has convinced themselves they hate you. How can doing righteous MB things possibly make that worse ?
Fear stalls us. Binds us. The good news is that when we overcome our fear, the pride we feel is salve to our battered self esteem. Just IME of course.
He also told me that the only reason he was having an A with me was because we had never had SF as teenagers and he'd always wanted to. He even admitted that part of it was to hurt me for breaking his heart 30 years ago. I said "you mean it was that calculated." He said maybe not THAT calculated but it was a factor.
I asked WH some questions about his future before he moved out too, and I didn't really think much about it, even though it didn't make sense to me(what does anymore?). I asked him where he planned on living, what he planned on doing with the rest of his life, etc. It makes more sense now.
Then I asked him if he actually pictured how his life would be without me in it.
He answered "I don't know" to everything but the last one and his answer was "no".
Now, I'm a pretty organized person, borderline OCD, and I have to have a plan for everything (which is why this is stressing me out soooo much--I can't control it and I need control). If I were going to make such a life-changing decision, such as divorce, I would need to know what my next million steps were going to be. I'm not a roll-with-the-punches kind of girl, but he's that type of guy. This isn't bothering him. And I know it's because of his fantasy-world!
What I feel impassioned to convey to new BS is that almost NOTHING they can do will make the situation worse. Their loved spouse is banging an OP and has convinced themselves they hate you. How can doing righteous MB things possibly make that worse ?
Fear stalls us. Binds us. The good news is that when we overcome our fear, the pride we feel is salve to our battered self esteem. Just IME of course.
I read it earlier, thank you though. It makes sense. Everything makes sense, it's just so hard to follow through.
And it's very hard to get over the fear. I'm scared of everything right now.
He also told me that the only reason he was having an A with me was because we had never had SF as teenagers and he'd always wanted to. He even admitted that part of it was to hurt me for breaking his heart 30 years ago. I said "you mean it was that calculated." He said maybe not THAT calculated but it was a factor.
When did he choose to tell you this?
Oh my God, I can't believe someone saying that to another person!
I'm not a roll-with-the-punches kind of girl, but he's that type of guy. This isn't bothering him. And I know it's because of his fantasy-world!
Whether he is that kind of guy or not is immaterial. All affairees do this (except for KiwiJ). Life suddenly has new meaning for them. Nothing can go wrong. God is smiling on them.
Quote
How do you think gemela is feeling now?
I couldn't care less because it has no bearing on anything. That's what you don't yet understand. Those thoughts are a wasted mental exercise.
KiwiJ,
So you are saying that OM had an affair with you to punish you? And you still went on with it? What does that mean? Who were YOU trying to punish? I am not criticizing you. I am just wondering if you weren't trying to punish yourself which is why I ask the question.
He told me that when I was getting too clingy and expecting more from him than just an email once a week and lunch or a drink more than once a month. I mean that about lunch or a drink. SF happened 10 times in 18 months.
And it's very hard to get over the fear. I'm scared of everything right now.
As this thing progresses, there is a shift in power. At first, the BS feels like WS's reject. That will change. After a while, the BS see that the WS is THEIR reject and struggles to find excuses to bring them back.
Gemela idolized OM and that rubbed off on me. For a long time I saw him as larger than life even though I had met him and knew he wasn't. When I found the love notes and photos, I realized who OM was - a pathetic little dweezel. OM became nothing to me. Unfortunately, in that same instant, gemela followed him. Since then it has been a real struggle to want her back.
I was very afraid in my first months post Dday. I triple guessed everything I did. Go read my posts. If you can't find them, I'll post the links.
But one thing I never did was become paralyzed to inaction. I think my actions were quick and severe. Maybe too much so. But I killed the PA in an instant. The EA lingered. Even so, I made it impossible too. Inaction has never been my problem. Impulsiveness? Maybe [ducking].
Don't let your fear control you. Control it. Fear is normal. It is unfortunate that new BS's don't realize how much power they hold. You may think your husband is driving this boat and he certainly does. You are both wrong.
Look, it's all a long time ago now. It's past. It's not doing anyone any good rehashing what a jerk he was or how it all happened.
That's why I decided not to say anything. I had a nice long post going and gave up. I have nothing I want to say.
Do you know what is the difference between gemela and every other woman in the world? Every other woman in the world has never cheated on me. Interesting statistic.
Do you know what is the difference between gemela and every other woman in the world? Every other woman in the world has never cheated on me. Interesting statistic.
Now that's flat out the funniest thing I have ever heard you say Pio.
I had part B of the "honesty" talk with WW tonight. She still clings to the lie that she didn't have an affair. She said he tried, they tried, but OM is impotent. His XW says differently and the evidence I have, mountains of it, say differently. I told her three times that I will not move forward based on lies. She would not bulge. I told her that either she thinks she is protecting OM and/or her darling BF told her to "deny until you die".
I never got to the conditions. I also did not table her drinking. After reading Dr. Harley's article on alcoholism, there is no doubt that WW is an alcoholic. I have asked her to quit many times. DS3 has begged her and she ignores both of us. According to Dr. Harley, she is so in love with her wine that she is unwilling to give it up. Moreover, R would be an empty attempt, even if she did come clean. Dr. Harley also said that it is important for a spouse to emotionally withdraw from an alcoholic spouse. That is already in progress.
I had part B of the "honesty" talk with WW tonight.
And how do YOU spell NC?
Quote
She would not bulge.
A few peanuts and a couple of beers and she will! Probably water weight gain - mostly.
MelodyLane suggested how important Plan B is to you. Do you plan to go absolute NC? it is important for you to begin to get closure and it is the only way that WW will ever change. These phone calls are going nowhere. You two have had this exact same conversation for weeks now.
My neighbor is a dentist and this is his first Ramadan in Saudi Arabia. I got to thinking about that. For those who don't know, Ramadan is the Muslim holy month and is so because it is believed to be the month in which Alah gave the Koran to Mohammed. The month is marked by fasting from danw till dusk, devotion to prayers, abstinence from carnal pleasures, etc.
Eating or drinking anything during the day is a serious sin and fasting during the month of Ramadan is one of the five pillars of Islam. The fasting is so strict that a Muslim should not even pick his nose because he might accidently forget and put his finger in his mouth and swallow something he shouldn't.
Okay so what does this have to do with my neighbor the dentist? I'm getting to that. The fasting rules are so strict that they can't even brush their teeth in daytime lest they accidentally swallow some toothpaste dissolved in their spit. So imagine being a dentist and none of your patients have brushed their teeth, gargled, rinsed - nothing. For an entire month! Makes proctology not look so bad after all. I feel sorry for my neighbor.
MelodyLane suggested how important Plan B is to you. Do you plan to go absolute NC? it is important for you to begin to get closure and it is the only way that WW will ever change. These phone calls are going nowhere. You two have had this exact same conversation for weeks now.
I have zero expectations that she will change or be honest. I have no interest in R with lies and/or the drinking. NC, Plan B, Plan C; none of it matters. I am no longer trying to R.
And, we have not had this converation for weeks. I have talked about having it for some time but not the conversation itself.
Withdrawal - aka a dark Plan B is also what Melody Lane suggested. She also asked if your wife ever drives under the influence because if she does you can get her picked up. Possible jail time might get her into AA. She has to hit bottom Todd.
I have never heard of the group you mentioned. There is an old folk song called 500 miles but that's the extent that I know.
They took the crockpot from me but did bring me back a papercup full of the food that was inside. Problem is, it was cold. No microwave, stove or even a hair dryer and I didn't want to eat it cold. Then I remembered: I have an iron. Those things can get hot. I took two coat hangers and bent them in a way as to form a cradle for an upside down iron. I put the papercup and the food inside on top of the iron and decided to go for a walk.
I was not even back to my room when I heard the sirens. They took the iron and the food, well I am sorry, the food is full of fire extinguisher contents. They also took my flashlight and my matches. The fire marshall said if they have to come out again, I will be arrested. At least I would get three squares that way.
Then I remembered: I have an iron. Those things can get hot. I took two coat hangers and bent them in a way as to form a cradle for an upside down iron. I put the papercup and the food inside on top of the iron and decided to go for a walk.
I just have three words for you: "ground fault interruptor".
I just have three words for you: "ground fault interruptor".
I have GFI here. But it didn't get wet. It was the smoke. The smoke alarm at this joint is too sensitive. I worry about going to jail but honestly, I have nothing left that generates heat. No, wait, my notebook gets very hot. Where is that frozen burrito?
I just got off the phone with WH. It was pretty good. We did not talk about our relationship or divorce AT ALL, I'm very proud to report. I was tempted to a couple of times, but I didn't want you all to be mad at me anymore (especially BigK).
Plus, I'm still grounded for another 2 days.
Anyway, we talked for 110 minutes and 47 seconds. I'm not sure why he originally called me. He started out by saying he was doing math in his head...he lost me, but started asking about the bills. I think he just wanted to talk to me for some reason. And I say that because he hasn't called me like that before. He sounded almost nervous. Then he told me a bunch of stories about work and I told him some of my stories about work. He asked me if I wanted to have lunch with him tomorrow. I agreed...not sure what that means either, but I'm going to try not to analyze it. And he's coming over here Wednesday evening for dinner.
I have GFI here. But it didn't get wet. It was the smoke. The smoke alarm at this joint is too sensitive.
Obviously you have never bought "The Single Man's Cookbook". Check it out at Waldenbooks. I think it is now in paperback.
I'll quote for you from my copy:
"When reheating food on an upside down iron, always use a low setting. Never reheat on linen or cotton setting. A useful tip for reheating tortillas is to warm them first and then place them on the ironing board and set the iron on cotton setting. Wait until the iron has come to temperature. Firmly press down on the tortilla and then give it two quick jets of steam..."
Obviously you have never bought "The Single Man's Cookbook". Check it out at Waldenbooks. I think it is now in paperback.
This is too funny. I tried to buy that exact book a couple of months after I moved out. The clerk noticed my wedding band and refused to sell me the book. I asked to see the manager. She said so many married men had bought the book that single men were left out. So, of course, American ingenuity being what it is, I simply went to another bookstore but first removed my wedding band. They could see my tan line and told me that married men try that stunt every day. Still not deterred, I went to a tanning joint. I wrapped tape around my left hand and fingers but left an opening over my wedding band tan line. Since the white ring on my finger had not see the sun in over thirty six years, it turned red and the next bookstore I visited noticed the red area. This explains why I bought the Betty Crockerpot in the first place. It came with a free Crockerpot cookbook. That's how I started the first fire. No, no more cooking for me. I am done. I will eat yogurt and animal crackers from here on out and sit around in my dark room (they removed the lightbulbs) in wrinkled clothes.
yeah, right! Like you actually ironed clothes. Gimme a break!
Besides, if it's dark, nobody will see the wrinkles. I've mentioned this before. Wash your clothes and sleep in them. It takes most of the wrinkles right out.
I just got off the phone with WH. It was pretty good. We did not talk about our relationship or divorce AT ALL, I'm very proud to report. I was tempted to a couple of times, but I didn't want you all to be mad at me anymore (especially BigK).
Plus, I'm still grounded for another 2 days.
Anyway, we talked for 110 minutes and 47 seconds. I'm not sure why he originally called me. He started out by saying he was doing math in his head...he lost me, but started asking about the bills. I think he just wanted to talk to me for some reason. And I say that because he hasn't called me like that before. He sounded almost nervous. Then he told me a bunch of stories about work and I told him some of my stories about work. He asked me if I wanted to have lunch with him tomorrow. I agreed...not sure what that means either, but I'm going to try not to analyze it. And he's coming over here Wednesday evening for dinner.
My goodness Stef. I am very proud of you. You MIGHT even be getting it.
By the way, I want to extend your ban for another 10 days.
And the SF you will be tempted to have with him on Wednesday is a HUGE No-NO. NO SF until he comes back home for good and you are BOTH screened for STD's
It is the year 2035 and brain tranplants have become common. A man was told by his doc to select a new brain and get scheduled for surgery.
He visited a new showroom. The host led him to the first room. There was a brain in a display case. It had a lone spotlight on it.
"Sir", said the host, "this brain belonged to a physican. He had a 146 IQ and was 29 when he died. This brain is priced at $25,000."
The host led the man to the second showroom. The showroom was more elaborate than the first. Much nicer case and better and more lights. The host continued: "Sir, this brain came from a physicist. He died at 43 and had an IQ of 173. $50,000 is the price for this brain".
The host and the man walked down a long corridor. It opened up into the most magnificent room the man had ever seen. Music was piped in and the light display was dazzling. "This is our Mercedes" said the host. "This brain belonged to an attorney, who had an IQ of 105 and who died at 89. The price for this wonderful brain is $250,000".
The man looked stunned. "I don't get it. This brain is older and has a smaller IQ than the first two we saw, yet it is a quarter of a million dollars?"
The host smiled: "Yes, you see, this one has never been used".
What I have not shown is that on the days with frequent calls, I have a spreadsheet showing time BETWEEN calls. Many times it was only 15 - 30 seconds between calls. How does that go? "I love you, bye". [ring] "No, I love you more, bye" [ring] "Just wanted to say I love you, bye"......
the DHL package is in Dhahran. The AWB says there is a DVD inside?!?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> That is a potentially big problem. It is still in customs. It might take a while because of the DVD (hope it is "G" rated). And you sent a sock? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> You are funny.
Hopefully it will clear this week. I am getting behind on homework. Vale cannot remember to bring home her glasses for anything.
Gawd Pio I think you're trying to drive yourself insane with the spread sheet & seeing what you suspect G & OM might have said to each other each time you post.
You have (had) an iron Todd? Now really, what's the use of that?
The song by the Proclaimers (thank you Kiwi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) is about a man devoted to his partner. The chorus goes something like this:
I will walk 500 miles & I will walk 500 more to be the man who walked one thousand miles to drop down at your door.
I hope she opens the door. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
May not be exact but close. This is the man I want for my next partner. Is that asking too much?
Gawd Pio I think you're trying to drive yourself insane with the spread sheet & seeing what you suspect G & OM might have said to each other each time you post.
All of those graphs I made prior to Dday when I was trying to get to the bottom of the unexplained phone calls. I went into the third month without noticing the calls because I generally never pay that much attention to the phone bill. I found them by accident because I was looking for something else and noticed a very larg number of call to one particular number. I called WW to ask if she knew anything about the calls. Of course she said she did not. The calls also stopped immediately (they found another method - secret prepaid cellphone). Even so, since WW denied the calls were hers, I launched a security investigation. I also began look at the phone calls to see if maybe someone was using out phone when we were not around (house maid?). That is why I plotted them so many ways. It was when I saw the call by time of day that I knew it was Karla. I called her and she confessed the A. So those graphs are over a year old. I only post them because of something KiwiJ said the other day. The one I find interesting is the calls to BF spiking right before calls to OM start.
One of the reasons I thought the calls were a mistake initially is that on many days there would be a call of 1 minute or so followed by another 2 minute call 20 seconds later followed by a 30 second call 10 seconds later. It was just WEIRD. I couldn't imagine anybody making calls like that. Since our ADSL and phone lines run through the same box, I was afraid I had a computer virus that was making the calls. I never doubted WW. Dummy me.
My goodness Stef. I am very proud of you. You MIGHT even be getting it.
By the way, I want to extend your ban for another 10 days.
And the SF you will be tempted to have with him on Wednesday is a HUGE No-NO. NO SF until he comes back home for good and you are BOTH screened for STD's
He11 Stef - he just wants to talk to you. He's telling yu about work, he wants to have lunch with you.... This is ALL excellent. Really good.
I thought that too (that he just wanted to talk to me). A friend of mine, who just went through a similiar situation with her BF said that even when he calls and is upset with me, sometimes all they need is to hear your voice. I think she may be on to something.
BTW bigk...you SUCK!!!! I knew you were going to do that to me. 10 more days shouldn't be TOO hard, but, I can't believe you think I'm going to be tempted to have SF with him Wednesday. That hurts...it really does. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (JK, BTW)
Besides, shouldn't I be meeting ALL of his EN's???
Dear TKO group.....I am still behind about 10 pages on this thread and do intend to go back and catch up...and I have decided to cut back on my 'hosting' duties, which I did again this weekend... I like a large lively group...with good food on the table...but it IS a lot of work...before and after.....
...in the meantime I would appreciate your feedback on an 'issue' I am having.....
This weekend, like out of the blue, I have started to fantasy about MEN...without going into details...just let your own imagination do the 'walking'...like I did way back when.....and this made me realize that I had actually been faithful both physically and MENTALLY...in ma M....
...well...that has changed for now if only mentally .....after not seeing WS for over a year....and therefore not having had any sex for over a year....and actually....when I learned of A....any sex I had with WS that overlapped with A all of a sudden, retroactively, had become ...yuk!... and so for the mathematically inclined.... statistically I have not had any for about 2 years.....and although SF was not THE top need for me in M.....it was being met over the 20 years being married...
....as it has been discussed just recently..... needs DO change... and since it is not being met AT ALL now...it seems over the past weekend....SF is hitting the top of the chart for me! (....maybe I can blame it on you guys, LOL!)
Now...as you all know, I am in PLAN B....and as suggested.... have committed myself to 'stick it out' the 2 yrs mark before 'moving on' and give up on M... but if I keep up the direction I have taken this weekend.... that will have to be shortened...by a lot!
So...would other PLAN Bers lurking here....and MB oldtimers (edited: or newtimers for that matter!) please remind me WHY would a perfectly healthy woman with healthy needs vow celibacy for any length of time...while WS, not only gave himself permission to start an A over two years ago while married to me, and handle any problems created by it with LIES, and basically 'dumped me' over a year ago by chosing to move out so as to feel less guilty and have a field day with OW?
...I am figuring my TAKER has had enough and wants to take charge!
...and please BigK....suggesting that a buy a vibrator...as you did to stph20...will not do...because my logic right now is getting to the stage where I would ask: why get a 'mechanical' one when I KNOW I get a 'live' one? See?
I may be older.... but I still spot a lot of men in whose eyes my 100 lbs on my 5'3" frame is not lost.... all I would need to do...is turn my 'ON' button on.... and all ****** would break out.... I have been a 'head turner'.... and like riding a bicycle.... don't think I have lost my touch!
...this is your chance to convince me...before like Darth Vader....I am lost to the Dark Side....why should I do otherwise? ...I know there are reasons....but right now none come to mind....
....because where I am right now....protecting my "weaknesses"...means literally to never be in a room alone with a man....and that's going to be hard to do for whole other year!
...Does anyone remember the play\film 'Cat on a Hit Tin Roof'....and when Elizabeth Taylor said that to Paul Newman character?...well...I now know what she meant!
I thought maybe, if Lemonman is lurking, I could ask him to provide me a link to see the effects of STDs on the genital regions....now...that should be a turn off!.....
Believer??? are you out there??? ...did this problem come up with you?
...good thing my milk is no longer being deliver...oops! ...but my mail still is!
....and....not having MBers of opposite sex emailing each other privately...is a very good policy..... for just these kinds of moments.....because.... Todd....I hate to say it.... but where I am at right now...I could totally 'abuse' the privileged information you provided on here: SF being #1 for you....ARGH!....because all of a sudden...Atlanta doesn't sound so far away and I could be at your doorstep propositioning you like your WW's friend....LOL!
...in the meantime...I will go and take a shower to cool off!
Luna, Believer did indeed go through what you're going through.
Yikes. I think a couple of showers might be in order.
Pio, I didn't look at the records but I have a feeling mine were nothing like as bad. After d-day I told Rob he could look at all the records and I highlighted in yellow highlighter the calls to the OM. There were never any calls at night and they were mainly calls to say I was on my way to meet him.
The interesting records are the calls to Rob first to say I'd be late, then the call to the OM.
Wow. Sorry for what you are going through. All my showers are cold these days. They turned off my hot water. They have removed all heat sources from my apartment. It is just as well I suppose. But cold showers only work for so long. Trust me.
Just wondering...maybe I missed a post...but what happened with your 'man up your sleeve'? did you ever date him? ...as you can see from my last post.... I've got MEN on my mind right now... hope it's a passing phase... I could be very DANGEROUS were I to be let loose.... I think it wise fro me to keep away, for the time being, from cruiiissing bars....don't think I would even need to go in one.....the outside waiting line would suffice...LOL!
stph20,
...sounds you are catching on real quick....keep up the good work....and, for the time being, I will let BigK advise you on the SF issue...as you can see...given my current phase...I cannot be much help to you on that issue...LOL!
Pio,
I see from your graphs that you have put your skills to good use!... I know you are concerned about G's return....but if you can keep away from LBusters I think you will be fine.....
Todd,
...no talking to WW.....means NO TALKING! ...if not, we will have your phone disconnected!
....boy...what's left to take away...your electric shaver!
OK....decided to go for a walk to get some fresh air...will make sure to wear DARK glasses so the men will not notice that I am CHECKING them out...LOL! ...heaven help me if I were to dust off my 'teasers' file in my brain from way back when...that I promised myself I would no longer use again.... the day I came to the conclusion that my seductive ways were no more no less a very 'manipulative' way to get to men and quite unfair...by 'appealing' to their weakest link....and no...unlike Achille....I am not referring to a heel....
I would very much appreciate being told that it is a 'normal' phase for a sex-deprived BS to be in... thank you, very much! ...so that I will have one less thing to worry about....and can continue to go about my merry way!
Well I am apparently evil because I did not let DD1 play goalie tonight. All the girls all want to play goalie so we have to take turns. Me being coach for my side, I can't play favorites. Most of the girls like playing goalie because they don't have to do much of anything. We have very few legitimate shots on goal in any given game. My DD1 is an exception. She screams at the defenders to get out of the way so the other team can take shots on her. The more - the better. The defenders just shrug and go sit down. They would rather just chat anyway.
She did score a goal though. I have really drilled into her to go for the corners. Most of the girls kick as hard as they can right at the goalie. DD1 is learning to go where the goalie is not. She kicks pretty hard though. If she does kick at the goalie, most of them just dive for cover. She's put girls out of the game before.
Anyway she is mad at me and refuses to play Wednesday night. We'll see.
I would think about bigK's suggestion. It doesn't forget to put the toilet seat down. It doesn't sit around watching TV all weekend drinking beer. If it complains about being too tired, just pop in a fresh battery - and the energizer bunny's your uncle.
I would think about bigK's suggestion. It doesn't forget to put the toilet seat down. It doesn't sit around watching TV all weekend drinking beer. If it complains about being too tired, just pop in a fresh battery - and the energizer bunny's your uncle.
I don't know how the rating system works. I did use a special "trick" to try to get it back to two stars and I got a message saying that the rating was accepted but it remained at three stars. So I got this theory that the stars are an average of all the ratings that have been given to the thread. I think in order to go from 3 to 2 stars, one or more people would have to rate it very low (i.e. 0-1 stars) to get the average down less than three.
To be honest I find it much harder to see the thread with three stars. Sometimes I almost post on IV by accident. I catch myself though. Then there's that supermarket aisle with the tampons. That's a whole nuther story.
...no talking to WW.....means NO TALKING! ...if not, we will have your phone disconnected!
What phone? They took it the second time the fire marshall visited me. Just kidding of course.
Quote
....boy...what's left to take away...your electric shaver!
Hey, electric shaver! It generates heat. I have some soup I need to heat up. Give me just a minute. Let's see. Uh oh. It gets hotter than I thought. I hear sirens.
Quote
OK....decided to go for a walk to get some fresh air...will make sure to wear DARK glasses so the men will not notice that I am CHECKING them out...LOL! ...heaven help me if I were to dust off my 'teasers' file in my brain from way back when...that I promised myself I would no longer use again.... the day I came to the conclusion that my seductive ways were no more no less a very 'manipulative' way to get to men and quite unfair...by 'appealing' to their weakest link....and no...unlike Achille....I am not referring to a heel....
Oh we know what you are talking about. It is where our brains are don't you know?
You know, you made me think of WW's "visit" that day. And this is the friend that WW holds in such high regard and quotes almost everything her friend says. If she only knew. I have always wondered if it was a plot hatched by WW and friend to "test" me or for me to act on friend's advances so as to level the cheating playing field. I doubt it however because WW is so insanely jealous, I cannot imagine that she would agree to such a thing. It doesn't really matter anyway exept to give me something to think about while they come for me.
....and this is actually bad timing for this to happen to me.... I don't have the boys this week!...doing the 'mom' chores could have at least kept me busy.....
...I now have enough free time, a whole week, to get myself into some REAL trouble!
When I wake up yeah I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who wakes up next to you When I go out yeah I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who goes along with you
If I get drunk yes I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who gets drunk next to you And if I haver yeah I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who's havering to you
But I would walk 500 miles And I would walk 500 more Just to be the man who walked 1000 miles To fall down at your door
When I'm working yes I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who's working hard for you And when the money comes in for the work I'll do I'll pass almost every penny on to you
When I come home yeah I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who comes back home to you And if I grow old well I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who's growing old with you
But I would walk 500 miles And I would walk 500 more Just to be the man who walked 1000 miles To fall down at your door
When I'm lonely yes I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man whose lonely without you When I'm dreaming yes I know I'm gonna dream Dream about the time when I'm with you.
But I would walk 500 miles And I would walk 500 more Just to be the man who walked 1000 miles To fall down at your door
BTW, sorry to be a wet blanket (not an electric blanket LOL) but talking to these guys about SF is a bit... a bit... well, a bit "not quite right".
Kiwi...I don't quite get it.... do you find it 'inappropriate'? ...or, by being too honest, am I turning a knife in their wound?
...if the former, I apologize if it offended you.... if the latter, I think the guys can take it!
...it is what it is.....choosing to be a sexless BS in PLAN B is no fun.... I thought it best to be upfront about it..... because I don't remember anybody warning me that this might be expected!
...like breastfeeding my two boys....yes...more bonding occurs...and yes....apparently their immune system is all the better for it....what they forget to mention is that, if you breastfeed for about a year, the mom will be sleep-deprived for about a year and 1/2 (you add six months to adjust), by having to get up every 3 hrs to breastfeed, and that's not counting the last three months of pregnancy...when no position can possibly be found to get any kind of proper sleep.....
Yeah well, it was traumatic! I am now working on my toes. And no, I did not exfoliate first. Maybe if I chew my toes off, I can find shoes that fit.
Speaking of armpits, I watched that sex show on television last night. I think her name is Sue. She advised a woman who wanted to really turn her husband on to "suck and kiss his armpits". Okay, I feel like I just fell off the turnip truck. This is a new one to me. Armpits?
Luna, I'm so sorry if I'VE offended you. Of course you should be honest. I'd be a hypocrite if I said you shouldn't talk about SF on MB.
A bit of both of what you mentioned. I'm not offended, but I was a bit shocked that you mentioned Todd. And, yes, it is twisting the knife a bit for them.
A bit of both of what you mentioned. I'm not offended, but I was a bit shocked that you mentioned Todd. And, yes, it is twisting the knife a bit for them.
Kiwi....you're shocked???... not more than I am.... it's no fun really..... I find it takes a lot of 'brain' space.... and makes it REAL hard to concentrate on anything!
...I wonder if I also upset some of the ladies...by admitting that....sometimes when the guys THINK they are the ones making the first move.... it may be just...that the lady planned it that way!
...I have experienced the 'power' of seduction...and have practiced its many imperceivable subtle ways...and chose to 'retire' these means....because as I said..... I came to consider them....bottom line....very manipulative.... I found appealing to a guy's 'below the belt' to be very easy, but it is NOT being upfront...
Sorry guys, particularly Todd...didn't mean to twist the knife at all....but I think I now understand better how it must feel when SF is a top need and it is NOT being met!
...I guess for me, SF was one of the top 5 needs in the M, but not THE top... but it surprises me that, all of a sudden, it becomes a top need when, or because, I can have it the least met!
...if Kiwi's comments are any indication of the 'trend' this will take.... I just may have upset the sensibilities of a few others..... and want to make it perfectly clear...that it was not my intention....
...please keep this in mind when 'weighing' in on my current account as a sexless BS!
Well, Todd is not offended. If you want to harness someone with blame, blame me. I was the one who mentioned that SF are my top five EN's. And were before DD. I cannot help it and was just being honest about my EN's, trying to remember how they had not been met in the past because I really didn't think about it that much until Plan B.
One of the values of this thread is that we talk about a wide range of subjects and sometimes feel a need to express urges, thoughts, humor, fire alarms, cooking and just about anything else.
Luna, you should not sign off. There is no trend that I see. If it is a trend, I will make a permanent exit from MB. This is the only thread in which I participate.
Take a deeeep breath Luna, hold it for a bit, now let it out...There, does that help? No? It didn't for me either.
All kidding aside go to an "adult store" & look around for something interesting. At the very least you don't want the muscles atrophy. This ought to help keep you from making choices you might regret.
Hi Todd, thanks for posting the lyrics. Did you like the song?
It's not asking too much if I'm willing to do the same, which I am. Wouldn't it be nice to feel that way again?
Hey there Kiwi, hope all is well.
Pio, I can picture the soccer games & boy does it make me chuckle. I can picture the girls sitting on the field & kicking the ball as hard as they can right into the goalie. Sounds like your daughter is taking this quite seriously. Good, maybe she'll be the next what ever her first name is Hamm.
Tonight I teach my one student so I should have a productive night. The more I do the more creative I feel. I have a show in Aug. & I want to have bucket loads of stuff.
I just got back from taking my oldest to guitar lessons. I had to laugh Kiwi when your son made the comment about the Eagles appealing to 52 year old women, as if that's a BAD thing.
My son loves to play songs like Boston's More than a Feeling, Layla, Paint it Black, Green Bay, Pink Floyd & Black Sabbath.
He listens to lots of heavy metal & tries some of it out on me, some I like, but he loves the Eagles. He's 15.
How about Eva Cassidy? Has anybody heard her music? She learned in gospel churches in, I think, Washington, DC. She died several years ago of skin cancer & her parents are releasing her work. She has a beautiful voice with a huge range.
As far as I'm concerned, you can talk about SF all you want. It is a foreign concept to me and nothing that interests me. During my M to gemela, I was never ever attracted to another woman in the slightest. Gemela, OTOH, well...but now she has taken that away.
Please remember that I lei'ed two Russian woman last weekend. That's enough excitement for a few years.
Luna,
I think your problem is that it is Ramadan. During Ramadan, the locals are not supposed to think about SF. Of course, that just makes them think about it more. You aren't Muslim are you?
Hi Todd, thanks for posting the lyrics. Did you like the song?
I like it a lot. The only part I don't like is the getting drunk. It seems so out of place with the rest of the song.
Quote
It's not asking too much if I'm willing to do the same, which I am. Wouldn't it be nice to feel that way again?
It is not asking too much and yes it would be nice to feel that way. My life has been in a holding pattern for seemingly so long that I have lived in that, as Teddy Roosevelt put it, "gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
I don't know. I will get my second post-treatment MRI in a week or two. My son has to keep up with it. Cannot track time very well right now. Hopefully, the second shows some progress. Or is that regress?
BTW, I just felt the need for a quick WW vent. When I met her for dinner last time, she noticed the scabs on my head. She was surprised and was curious as to what caused the sores. I explained to her that in order to immobilize your head for treatment, they install a frame on your head and fasten it to your head with screws. Plus, there is also the matter of radiation burning through your scalp. She responded: no really, what caused them? Completely in denial about everything these days.
BTW bigk...you SUCK!!!! I knew you were going to do that to me. 10 more days shouldn't be TOO hard, but, I can't believe you think I'm going to be tempted to have SF with him Wednesday. That hurts...it really does. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (JK, BTW)
Besides, shouldn't I be meeting ALL of his EN's???
ALL his needs EXCEPT SF. Your emotional, physical, mental health and wellbeing is more important than him getting his jollies.
Stef - I am sure you can see this is working. He is changing.
Meet any divorce talk with Reverse Babble - I posted you a link on reverse babble - use it on your wayward spouse.
Stef - This stuff is good and it is working. Your WS is being drawn back to you.
Todas y todos: It's a local joke about the equal opportunity political discurse of 'modern' politicians in Mx, in their speaches they make a point to mention men and women which make their discurses even more repetitives.
Todd, it's so sad that she has not empathy towards you, was she always that way? Todd is SF is your first need how did you manage to control your self when she appeared with pijama kit at your actual acomodation?
Luna, what you see as lack of directiveness or not completely honesty of intentions from women towards men I understand it sometimes more like confusion of needs. Why, when we look primarly for a emotional bond or emotional support we send a sexual message? My impression about the 'unconsciossnes' of some 'sexual' signals, seems reinforced for the sexual message of some dress codes of teenagers, most of the times they are not looking for 'that' althought their clothes could say otherwise.
Nam, ty for asking about mold to your friend. I wouldn't dare to put a painting to dry in the sun, thogh. Lol.
Luna, B's going to KILL me for this but she acted on her "urges" and then spent the next three months telling us how much she regretted it.
Thanks for the info, Kiwi....and do hope that B. won't mind you telling on her!
Quote
Luna, you should not sign off.
It's OK, Todd...I was at work and I needed to get home...LOL.
Quote
Take a deeeep breath Luna, hold it for a bit, now let it out...There, does that help? No? It didn't for me either.
All kidding aside go to an "adult store" & look around for something interesting. At the very least you don't want the muscles atrophy. This ought to help keep you from making choices you might regret.
Hi Nams....thanks for the advice...sounds like you may have experienced some of the same feelings.....
I think I will take my chances, if I have to....with regretting something! no toys for me!
I am sorry for staying on the topic....but this is new to me....
...you see....for me, SF was always associated with some sort of a 'connection', or a show of 'affection' on my part towards my sex partner...
In fact.....I would say that BEFORE, in my top needs, Affection would come above SF.....even when I was young (Oh, Lord...was it that long ago!)... which is one of the reasons I would not consider myself 'promiscuous'.....
I had a lot...let me repeat....a lot of propositions for sex..... but I never went for it....because unlike the guys....I always needed a 'connection'.... sex for me was somewhat of a 'means of communication'..... but it is how I basically learned, from the guys who propositioned me, what 'turned them on' about me...how I learned the 'subtle' ways of seduction... by accident, really ...initially, it started out just by me being me.... so...I basically then had the choice to 'tone down' my 'natural me'.. or continue 'business as usual' and continue to now knowingly 'turn on' guys that I did not intend to turn on..... I chose to 'tone down'.... and let the guys be!
...because, as I said before... I prefer being upfront about sex.... rather then manipulative...even though I now knew how!
It was a bit a shocker for me to realize that.....being a sexless BS.....my top need, hopefully temporarily, has become SF....without necessarily being associated with 'affection' or a 'connection'.....
...now...THIS....does make me very vulnerable.... because I was counting on my need for the combination SEX + AFFECTION... to somewhat 'protect' me.... and now realize that this is no longer the case....
I did not think THIS would be a problem for me in PLAN B.... because I would initially have to develop a 'connection' before I would consider SF to be met by anyone else...
If this has now changed.....it will make PLAN B a greater challenge for me.... let's hope it's temporary....
... although I am still 'technically' married..... WS has made his choice....by moving out one year ago and choosing to continue his A with OW.... and taking steps to 'legitimize' the A.....
Were I to have SF in PLAN B...in my current state of mind... I would not be lying to anyone..... WS's choices have technically 'released' me of any committments towards him...other than on paper!
...although I do believe we did not have a bad marriage or family life... it was BASED on 'reality'..... and I will be the first to admit.....it could not compete with the fantasy world he 'imagines' with OW..... until this 'imaged' world is taken down to the same reality level as his M and family life..... which, BTW, WS is working hard at not allowing this to happen by choosing NOT to live with OW...... how do I know this?.... because he told me that was his plan....although from what the boys report, things are not working out as planned, as WS has been known to have bounts of crying in front of the boys....
I also know....WS did not protect his 'weaknesses'.... because he did not want to admit he had any....and so.... he rendered himself very 'vulnerable'.... this, I believe, was part of his downfall..... and where he will have to seek some 'professional' help... and if the opportunity arises, I will make it a condition.....
...the reality now is...that WS has chosen R with the OW, for better or worse,....over me and his family!
I do believe...it is a castle made out of cards.... and it will eventually fall.....
...the question remains.... will it fall fast enough? ...will WS reconsider R? ...will I be still available, if this ever happens?
SF becoming a top need for me, which is understandable under the circumstances,...but without being in combination with Affection.... is just not helping the situation at all... and has totally thrown me off!
Luna - You haven't in the slightest offended me. Tell me - why did you decide to wait out 2 years of Plan B. Seems to me you should be considering Plan D.
I see your DDs are keeping you busy... I would give anything to see you in the middle of the soccer field...trying to bring some order in the chaos.....LOL... sounds like you are up for the challenge!
Quote
You aren't Muslim are you?
...no I am not....but I think the same principle applies... in PLAN B limboland....S is not there to fulfill SF... and technically.....BS is chosing to NOT have anyone else fulfill it, either! I am now basically questioning.... WHY NOT?
Quote
She responded: no really, what caused them? Completely in denial...
I am sorry to hear that...I really think you should go DARK, Todd...and maybe consider Melodylane's suggestion to join the support group for family members of an alcoholic....
Luna - You haven't in the slightest offended me. Tell me - why did you decide to wait out 2 years of Plan B. Seems to me you should be considering Plan D.
Hi BigK...I am glad to hear you were not offended...
I believe 2 yrs is the 'recommended' average waiting period according to MB ....to see if A with OW, getting a serious go at a 'reality' check, will withstand it....although some may take 5, more or never!
I did not initially see a problem with the two year period... as I did not SEE myself getting emotionally involved with anyone within that timeframe.... and so did not see SF as a problem!
SF starting to get top billing...without the need for any emotional involvement...is what is throwing me off, and is new to me! Yikes!
On the up side.....I guess this helps me better understand some 'lifestyle' choices some people make....when SF alone is the top need!
I may have to reconsider...I will wait and see... I may be ready to 'move on' to D...sooner than later...
Quote
The rabbit is reportedly very good.
Now..BigK...this...will need some further explanation!
Todd, it's so sad that she has not empathy towards you, was she always that way?
Hi larousse,
I don't know. I had never had anything wrong with me before. I did get seriously injured in the ocean once and spent a week in the hospital. She was okay during that time. WW used to be the sweetest and most considerate person in the world. She changed after she started her affair, or maybe even before.
Quote
Todd is SF is your first need how did you manage to control your self when she appeared with pijama kit at your actual acomodation?
Ah, larousse, you are blessed with a good memory. I got to a point after DD where, despite how beautiful my WW is and how sexy I consider her, I found the idea of SF with her repugnant.
I got to a point after DD where, despite how beautiful my WW is and how sexy I consider her, I found the idea of SF with her repugnant.
Women seem to think men think of SF as only SF. Any port in a storm - so to speak.
I don't find SF with gemela repugnant - I just find it pointless. I can spend that time doing other things that make me happier. SF without the passion and intimacy - well - buy an appliance.
Hey ToddAC - I bet some of those "appliances" generate heat. You might be able to find something you could put in a pot of soup to heat it up (and stir at the same time).
I hope you find some answers and help in the Alanon group. My father went to AA when I was 11 years old. My mom went to Alanon and I was sent to Alateen. Lol. I haven't been in touch with the 'groups for more than 20 years.
I wonder if your wife had always this 'uncaring' potential or if she developed it along with the affair and the drinking.
My long term relationships were with heavily drinking people, the last one barely functional. As I write this I'm wondering if it was just natural that I met that kind of man. Maybe I forgot what I learnt. Lol.
Luna et al,
I spent 3 and 2 years in celibacy. I actually know what a rabbit is. I don't have an answer to what to do during celibacy or how to adress that kind of needs. I was told to transform the libido energy into creative energy and it has worked for the most part.
Today two men repaired the bathroom ceiling and when they left I decided to use some Muriatic acid I bought after you mentioned it to clean the painting mold. I used in the floor, diluted. After clearing the water five times I thought it was safe to touch the mop with the hands, nope.
I think I'm going to change skin soon. Lol.
Is muriatic acid sell over the counter in other countries?
Is muriatic acid sell over the counter in other countries?
Yes.
Heck I have been in restaurants in Mexico where they put it in the pico de gallo!
Actually I ruined my favorite pair of Harley-Davidson gloves in a toilet in San Luis Potosí. I laid them on the counter. Muriatic acid turns black leather pinkish-purple.
Women seem to think men think of SF as only SF. Any port in a storm - so to speak.
I don't think that, Pio.... I have found, though, that 'sexual tension' is generally more important to men... for me, as a woman, sex USED TO BE a very enjoyable and very physical way of communicating my affection....but right now...simply a 'physical' attraction may be enough! ...this widens the scope quite a bit for me...and is definitely out of my 'comfort zone'.
I hope this won't get me into any trouble with the 'guys' again, LOL!
I wonder if your wife had always this 'uncaring' potential or if she developed it along with the affair and the drinking.
larousse,
I don't know. Before I got ill, I was always the rock in our relationship. I never needed her for anything. I was self-sufficient as I have always been in life. I think that is it. I never needed her understanding or support until the tumor put me in a full Nelson. Then she flunked the test miserably. Not only was she not there for me when I needed her most, she was there for a serial predator who took advantage of her. It really doesn't matter any longer. I am done.
No. Can't get Iron Man except in live versions. Nothing from them prior to 1989 on iTunes.
When is season 3 of lost going to start? My Desperate Housewives is starting to trickle in on iTunes but there is so far no mention of Lost. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
BTW, since Orchid lives in Hawaii, do you think she has the inside scoop on what is going to happen between Jason and Nicole on North Shore? Soccer practice is seriously cutting into my viewing. I am totally lost. Nicole loves Jason - Jason loves Nicole. Nicole refuses to marry Jason. Jason sleeps with Tessa. I am confused. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Women seem to think men think of SF as only SF. Any port in a storm - so to speak.
I don't think that, Pio.... I have found, though, that 'sexual tension' is generally more important to men... for me, as a woman, sex USED TO BE a very enjoyable and very physical way of communicating my affection....but right now...simply a 'physical' attraction may be enough! ...this widens the scope quite a bit for me...and is definitely out of my 'comfort zone'.
I hope this won't get me into any trouble with the 'guys' again, LOL!
When I was young and single, I needed nothing to engage in SF other than a willing woman. I developed a reputation as being one of the "cold" guys. Over time, and with modicum of maturity, I have changed. I cannot imagine SF without feelings or some level of affection.
Wait, can I change my answer? Okay, honestly, I can imagine it and wait...give me a second to think this through....okay I could even do it, that is, SF with no whatever. I am not sure what I am trying to say and should just stop writing.
Putting the painting in the sun with the moldy back of the painting to the sun should be fine. You can always cover the painted part so that the only part of the painting to be in the sun is the moldy back. If this a valuable painting I'm afraid the terrorizing restorer may be your only answer.
I do wish you would stop mentioning the predator. Your wife CHOSE the A. There are always opportunities. Doesn't mean we have to take them.
Hey piojiots, get out of my wheelhouse! Yes, my WW clearly chose the A. But it doesn't change the fact that OM is a serial predator either. My WW needed opportunity to cash in; OM provided that opportunity. And trust me, I lay blame clearly at her feet.
Quote
You say you were always independent and self-sufficient. Why did you get married? It is a serious question. What was in it for you?
Because I messed around and fell in love. At the time I met my WW, I was dating five women. I didn't need to get married for SF purposes. So, that's my answer: I fell in love. I had never been in love before. Okay, that's not true. But, not to the depth to which I fell for my WW. And BTW, just because you get married doesn't mean one is no longer independent. Oh, wait, can I change that answer?
Todd, you're right about the drunk part of the song, it doesn't fit with the rest. I took it to mean when he's out & enjoying himself he will be with her. That's what I want to think any way.
Too bad to hear the Eagels got nasty with each other. It's hard not to let that kind of stuff affect how hear their music. Kind of like art. I find I like a person's work better when I like them as a person, less when I don't.
As for SF...there must be an emotional connection for it to be its best. Otherwise might as well get the dolls & the toys. They have their place but nothing can substitute for the connection & closeness when you really share yourself intimately.
Nam, thank you. I understand the principle, would think about it.Lol. How was class, is it more enjoyable to teach one to one?
Luna,
going back to what you mentioned about manipulation... I think using sexual atractiveness to get something different that sex or in the context of a relationship, it's manipulation but in the context of dating or a sexual encounter seems just the natural language. Otherwise, how would you be upfront?: 'I'm up are you?'
If what it's said about men enjoying the pursue, if you 'neogtiate' the encounter, are you taking away part of the pleasure of the mutual seduction, even when it's only sexual?
going back to what you mentioned about manipulation... I think using sexual atractiveness to get something different that sex or in the context of a relationship, it's manipulation but in the context of dating or a sexual encounter seems just the natural language. Otherwise, how would you be upfront?: 'I'm up are you?'
If what it's said about men enjoying the pursue, if you 'neogtiate' the encounter, are you taking away part of the pleasure of the mutual seduction, even when it's only sexual?
I will say SF with ex was...strained...much of the time. I often felt like I could have been any body & he'd have been fine with that. The lack of emotional intimacy wreaked havoc in our M.
I got sick of living like that so I set out to change the dynamics of our sexual relationship. I felt closer emotionally to ex when we were very sexually active VS going many days without. During those days without he wouldn't share himself emotionally so there would end up being lots of distance. Negative tension built up & made it difficult to approach ex in a natural, comfortable way. Plus, he wasn't playful.
larousse, no it's not fun to teach one on one. This lady is pretty high maintenance. Meaning I could sit on top of her the whole time & she'd still not quite get it. Fortunately she wants to do hand building VS the wheel so I think she may have better luck producing.
She's a nice person & I enjoyed her more tonight than I ever have (she's a repeat student) so for that reason one on one may just work out. I only got one thing made & it was kinda ugly. I'll look at it again tomorrow & if it's as ugly as I thing I'll just recycle & start over. One of the beauties of clay.
I woke up about midnight and discovered DD1 setling in to WW's side of the bed. I asked her why she was there. She said she couldn't sleep because it felt like there were ants in her bed. Knowing the way they stash food, I realized it was a possibility. I went and checked and didn't find any ants but did find that the maid had accidentally put the "guest sheets" (1) on the bed. I quickly changed them and carried DD1 back to her room.
(1) guest sheets are the ones I soak in Clorox and air-dry without rinsing.
I once had the dinner guests from heII over. They brought inferior wine & argued the whole time they were there. I got up from the table, cleaned everything, turned on all the lights, blew out the candles, dissappeared for an hour & they still sat there arguing. They got married & divorced with 2 years.
I love the sheets idea Pio. I'll file that one away for future use.
I figure "man up my sleeve" AKA guy who doesn't want to remarry, will be returning from Italy any day now. I wonder if he'll call...I wonder if I'll answer...
Tee hee Todd! No, unfortunately they weren't French. That would have probably made them more exciting.
It also would have explained the cheap wine.....
Quote
He was ex an Ranger, moved to Special Forces blow hard she was a Special Forces groupie. Didn't take her long to figure out the disfunction.
My reference point for Rangers is my cousin who was my best friend growing up. He went to Vietnam for a year and when he came home, we went fishing. He looked at a fisherman on the shore and asked me: Have you ever seen a human head blow up after being shot with a high powered weapon? I said, yes I had. It let the air out of him and he was never the same. He went just a little crazy in Vietnam.
It's the hideous training that makes them crazy. Well that & there are certain types who fit the mold very nicely. One question they are asked is who would you kill first, your mother or your father. The correct answer is your father so he can't stop you from killing your mother.
Hey piojiots, get out of my wheelhouse! Yes, my WW clearly chose the A. But it doesn't change the fact that OM is a serial predator either. My WW needed opportunity to cash in; OM provided that opportunity.
Sorry dude but this is one you need to deal with. You say you blame your WW solely for the A but, if it hadn't been for OM, she never would have had one. I am willing to bet you are wrong. OM could have been anyone. This one just happened to be convenient.
Either your WW was 100% responsible and OM means nothing even if he were Lawrence of Arabia or you refuse to let your WW take the blame and it is all OM's fault. I think you are stuck on this fence. I think you want to blame WW and yet don't want to blame her at the same time. You are still trying to protect her.
My belief is that your WW would have found the next OM if this one hadn't been willing. Maybe she couldn't deal with your illness. Maybe she needed comfort to enable her denial. I think your WW was the predator. Sorry. Leave OM alone. If he truly is a predator, he will move on soon enough anyway. Apparently your WW has friends willing to lend a hand.
Every time you mention the predator OM, it fuels your anger and inhibits your healing. Let it go. JMO.
Turns out it isn't that bad. I pinned a note on her saying she got sunburned. It is strange that it is only on one side though. She looks a little like Richard Dreyfus in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
I've been thinking about your WW & her reaction to your illness. I think you give her too much understanding when you say she just isn't able to cope...IMHO
There are two things I don't understand your view on concerning your WW. One, the religious, conservative upbringing not allowng her to consider the depths to which she has sunk by having an affair & two, she is so unable to cope with your illness she simply refuses to acknowledege or deal with it.
Sorry dude but this is one you need to deal with. You say you blame your WW solely for the A but, if it hadn't been for OM, she never would have had one. I am willing to bet you are wrong. OM could have been anyone. This one just happened to be convenient.
Mr. Engineer,
Deduce, not induce. Go back and read what I said. I have never said, nor do I believe, that WW is solely to blame for her affair. Yes, OM1, at least, could have been anyone - but he wasn't. He is a serial predator who knew our "sitch" and took advantage of it. Forgive me, but he committed a cardinal sin and well, he committed a cardinal sin.
But you are corrrect in the sense that it could have been anyone. Depending on whom you believe, thus far, the body count is three OM.
Quote
Either your WW was 100% responsible and OM means nothing even if he were Lawrence of Arabia or you refuse to let your WW take the blame and it is all OM's fault. I think you are stuck on this fence. I think you want to blame WW and yet don't want to blame her at the same time. You are still trying to protect her.
My friend, you are as wrong as acid rain on this one. I blame both. It takes two to tango and two it was.
Quote
My belief is that your WW would have found the next OM if this one hadn't been willing. Maybe she couldn't deal with your illness. Maybe she needed comfort to enable her denial. I think your WW was the predator. Sorry. Leave OM alone. If he truly is a predator, he will move on soon enough anyway. Apparently your WW has friends willing to lend a hand.
Whether OM moves on, or has already moved on to "greener pastures" is immaterial to me. He has committed a wrong against me, my marriage and my family. He can move on all he likes but that fact will not change. And yes, my WW can attract attention from the opposite sex. Never been a problem for her.
If she is an alcoholic, was this a point of continual conflict? Did she seek someone to enable her addiction (i.e. does OM not complain about the $600/mo wine bill)?
Addictive personalities easily seek more than one addiction.
I've been thinking about your WW & her reaction to your illness. I think you give her too much understanding when you say she just isn't able to cope...IMHO
I'm losing count now. I am still not clear on OM #2 and now there is a third? Are you really "regreted" in disguise? If so, you have at least two more OM's to go.
Your WW is racking up quite a body count. Don't you think she might be trying to self-destruct?
There are two things I don't understand your view on concerning your WW. One, the religious, conservative upbringing not allowng her to consider the depths to which she has sunk by having an affair & two, she is so unable to cope with your illness she simply refuses to acknowledege or deal with it.
I agree. I beleive she is able, in the tradition of Bill Clinton, to compartmentalize. It was a classic push-pull conflict for her. It was easy for her to be attracted to OM because they are soulmates. With my illness, she faced something she had never had to deal with. I also think she scripts after her Father a great deal. After MIL was diagnosed with cancer and given a couple of months to live, FIL walked out of MIL's room, came over to me and asked: Why did this have to happen to me? He is his own prism through which all of life gets filtered and colored according to what is in his best interest. WW apparently shares some of those same beliefs.
I'm losing count now. I am still not clear on OM #2 and now there is a third? Are you really "regreted" in disguise? If so, you have at least two more OM's to go.
Your WW is racking up quite a body count. Don't you think she might be trying to self-destruct?
The additional two OM have not been confirmed by me. OM2 was revealed by OM1 in a fairly recent conversation with XW. Now, is he being truthful, I have no idea. OM3 was advertised by WW. She told me that I should not worry about OM1 any more, that there was a new man in her life. Is she being honest, I don't know and don't care. The damage was done with her first affair and the rest of it is simply more water running over the dam.
BTW, if OM2 is real, he is the one married to Good Friend whom I asked to try to give WW positve influences in her life to counteract BF and F#2. If so, I considered him to be a friend as opposed to OM1. I will talk to OM2 when I am physically able.
going back to what you mentioned about manipulation... I think using sexual atractiveness to get something different that sex or in the context of a relationship, it's manipulation but in the context of dating or a sexual encounter seems just the natural language. Otherwise, how would you be upfront?: 'I'm up are you?'
If what it's said about men enjoying the pursue, if you 'neogtiate' the encounter, are you taking away part of the pleasure of the mutual seduction, even when it's only sexual?
Larousse...you lost me a bit here...
See...I was married for over 20 yrs...and I love my S very much (not WS!)...so...sex was a given... not a lot of negotiating or pursuing going on... that may have been the problem...LOL!
Nam, good night. 'This lady is pretty high maintenance. Meaning I could sit on top of her the whole time & she'd still not quite get it.' Nam if you sit on top of me I wouldn't learn either.
but I would love to have a clay teacher all for myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Nam, you said your XH wasn't playful. I think that was a strong motivator for me to remain celibe; it's hard to find a partner with similar levels of playfulness. One night stands are not even the appeteizers*. Lol.
Todd, What, what? What? I didn't explaine my self, best to ask Lunamare, what does she mean by manipulation, in the sexual context and how does she understand seduction in the same context?
Todd, does OM earns more than you, the same? What has WW said about the fact that he's divorced and didn't try to marry her?
Pio, Could we see some video of DD's playing and maybe you coaching? Bring the maid to the game and just let her in charge of not leting anyone close to the cam. Lol.
If she is an alcoholic, was this a point of continual conflict?
No.
Quote
Did she seek someone to enable her addiction (i.e. does OM not complain about the $600/mo wine bill)?
I have no idea. OM complained vehemently about his XW's drinking but then her habit came out of their household. My guess is that my WW's drinking played no part in her A.
Quote
Addictive personalities easily seek more than one addiction.
She now has two: alcohol and OM. Incidentally, what is really amazing about the aftermath of her affair and exposure is how she now views our sons. She knows that DS1 and DS2 are angry with her, not for the affair, per se, but for lying to them. Her reaction: if that is the way they want to be then I will never have anything to do with them again. Before her A, she was the most loving and caring Mom in the world. My guess is that her A made her selfish. That she is not going to do things to benefit her and her alone and everybody else can simply to go he!!.
...I wonder, BigK....since you are forbidding SF to stph20.....she may have gotten mixed up and took your advice to me...and may be busy trying out the 'rabbit' gadget...LOL!
...now...if it comes with stph20's recommendation...I may be willing to try it out...
...like Todd...I think I better stop writing....so not to dig myself a bigger hole!
Could we see some video of DD's playing and maybe you coaching? Bring the maid to the game and just let her in charge of not leting anyone close to the cam
I am lazy about that. I don't mind taking the videos. My camera uses mini-DVD rather than tape which is convenient. But to transfer that to the web, I have to burn the DVD, then rip it to DVD format and then convert from DVD format to Mp4 or some other web-compatible format, then edit content to minimize the video length and then for the sake of bandwidth (i.e. yours - not mine), have to run it through a Sorensen squeeze. Yes I promise I will upload a video soon. I am just wondering with which free minutes I am going to do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Do you have any idea how big original DVD video is? And then you couldn't see it. Getting video to web is a time-consuming process. Have you seen any of the older videos on the website?
I wonder, BigK....since you are forbidding SF to stph20.....she may have gotten mixed up and took your advice to me...and may be busy trying out the 'rabbit' gadget
I'm sure glad you said that and not me. I was tempted but caught myself. Sounds better coming from a woman. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Todd, What, what? What? I didn't explaine my self, best to ask Lunamare, what does she mean by manipulation, in the sexual context and how does she understand seduction in the same context?
Is this the Rabbit we are talking about?
Quote
Todd, does OM earns more than you, the same?
larousse,
OM earns an excellent living but I earn more than six times his salary each year. He is short, fat and older than me. And dumb. Apparently coy in his own way but is essentially an intellectual idiot. He has panic attacks if around more than 2-3 people at a time. And he is a hypochondriac. He constantly thinks he is dying. He was in the hospital last year and apparently almost died. Instead of the bright white light that so many report that they see, he saw black demons emerge from the floor and drag him down through the floor. According to OMXW, since that event, OM truly has a fear of dying.
No larousse, in every way, he is inferior to me. Not being vain but honest.
Quote
What has WW said about the fact that he's divorced and didn't try to marry her?
I don't know if I remember. It seems like this subject came up but I just don't remember. They may get married yet although there would go her lie and coverup wouldn't it?
I saw the pics. Most of them. I liked them. Most of them. Lol. The ones of G over a camel and the Taj Mahal* were when you two were recently married I guess.
I didn't try the video. I found the images of the little girls playing soccer in middle SA very refreshing, don't know why.
Taj Mahal she was 8 months pregnant with DD2. We had left DD1 with MIL in Dubai. Going to the Taj Mahal was one of WW's childhood dreams. Something she fantasized about in grade school during geography class.
Todd, I was not reffering to the rabbit althought it requires some expertise, I'm told. I'm not sure I understood what Lunamare meant when she used the word manipulation, refering to being openly seductive but I'm not really sure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
If WW is alcoholic then her biggest affair is really alcohol...
I am beginning to think maybe there are some parallels between you and WW, Myrta and Stanley and my WW and me. Three men who idolized their wives believing they were perfection incarnate and could do no wrong. That is a lot of responsibility to place on a person. I haven't given it much more thought than that. It is just something I started thinking about after reading that thread you mentioned yesterday.
I did. She doesn't believe it. Her BF wouldn't do that to her. She has witnessed BF do things to me in front of her, so I am at a loss as to why WW cannot believe what happened.
I am beginning to think maybe there are some parallels between you and WW, Myrta and Stanley and my WW and me. Three men who idolized their wives believing they were perfection incarnate and could do no wrong. That is a lot of responsibility to place on a person. I haven't given it much more thought than that. It is just something I started thinking about after reading that thread you mentioned yesterday.
I don't know. I don't try to understand or explain WW's A any longer. The Why doesn't really matter to me. In WW view, it is all my fault, so no help there either.
Maybe your WW is getting the advice not only of deny everything but also of going back to the marriage from a position of power, like submiting you and punishing you for leaving her. Cosmopolitan kind of advice I guess.
Maybe your WW is getting the advice not only of deny everything but also of going back to the marriage from a position of power, like submiting you and punishing you for leaving her. Cosmopolitan kind of advice I guess.
WW told me that her BF has told her not to get back with me. Her next best friend has adivised her to swallow her pride and get back with me. She listens to BF more. But, it doesn't really matter anyway.
I wonder if you may need a kind of letter B letter, in which you ask her specifically no to contact you unless she meets the conditions needed to even contemplate to see her again.
I wonder if you may need a kind of letter B letter, in which you ask her specifically no to contact you unless she meets the conditions needed to even contemplate to see her again.
I think Larousse is right Todd - She's so agrivating you and sucking the life out of you that Plan B - a very dark one might be the only way for you to get peace and maybe even wake her up.
The appartment upstairs needed a plomber to solve a filtration problem to my bathroom. Then I needed a man to take away the damaged plaster and put fresh one. The man that took away the plaster bloked the tubes of the bathtube. Now I need a plomber.
ALL his needs EXCEPT SF. Your emotional, physical, mental health and wellbeing is more important than him getting his jollies.
Stef - I am sure you can see this is working. He is changing.
Meet any divorce talk with Reverse Babble - I posted you a link on reverse babble - use it on your wayward spouse.
Stef - This stuff is good and it is working. Your WS is being drawn back to you.
Avoid LB's, don't be needy and clingy.
This is the best news you've had for weeks!
And Yes - I know I suck. But YOU know I'm right.
First of all, Stef went out for a drink after work tonight with friends...and had a really good time!
Second of all, I do know you're right.
Lunch went pretty well today. He didn't touch me much(although he found little ways to do it without seeming "romantic") or kiss me, but he flirted and teased, so it was kind of nice. We haven't acted that way towards each other in a really long time.
Our fall is record hot, so AC's are a must right now. MIL's AC is not working so I was informed this evening that he might be spending the night here tonight and definitely tomorrow night. He called me at work to tell me this and to "just talk", I think. He told me some more stories.
He called later tonight and said he wasn't coming over tonight, but he still was tomorrow night. The good news is, when he told me that he wasn't coming over tonight, I was not disappointed. And I'm not really all that excited about him coming over tomorrow. I'm starting to let go, and I feel good about that.
I'm also happy that the past few times I've talked to him, he actually talked to me like I'm a human being and not a piece of dirt. Let's hope he can keep that up.
Third of all, I have not gotten the rabbit, or even researched it...I know where I can get the real thing when I want it!...even though I'm not supposed to (who made up that stupid rule anyway?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I think Larousse is right Todd - She's so agrivating you and sucking the life out of you that Plan B - a very dark one might be the only way for you to get peace and maybe even wake her up.
Thanks BigK. If you could just get Pio to agree to this.
Third of all, I have not gotten the rabbit, or even researched it...I know where I can get the real thing when I want it!...even though I'm not supposed to (who made up that stupid rule anyway?)
That would be the BigK. But note, he is the official MB rule maker this month. If you think BigK is tough, just wait. I am the rule maker next month. hehehe
That would be the BigK. But note, he is the official MB rule maker this month. If you think BigK is tough, just wait. I am the rule maker next month. hehehe
That makes me a little nervous. What do you have up your dirty, wrinkled sleeve?
After second treatment Todd I would be very afraid of you as rule maker.
Hahahaha
Geez thanks larousse. That brightens my day!
Or as Alan Parsons put it in "Eye in the Sky":
I am the eye in the sky Looking at you I can read your mind I am the maker of rules Dealing with fools I can cheat you blind And I dont need to see any more To know that I can read your mind, I can read your mind
And Stef - just so you know, I do intend on keeping grounding you. You just may save your marriage. Can you see how your husband is changing and you are becoming attractive to him again? You have the upper hand Stef.
Hmm. I dunno if I would let him stay the night either Stef. WH I know you would like to stay the night and enjoy our airconditioning but I feel that you would be happier if you did not stay here.
...to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
Todd, but we know you really don't want to read minds just, ehem, the Superman vision.
Humor aside I hope you remain positive and pro active about your next treatment Todd. I almost feel like saying if all this WW stuff is like a hot potato drop it completely. Your physical recovery is paramount.
La Huasteca is an area between the states of San Luis Potosí, Veracruz and Tamaulipas. It has a very fertile land and the main activities were breed of cows, horses and agricultural activities, the music of the region is called huapango. Huapango to me is the best folcklore rythm of Mx.
San Luis Potosí also has an area visited by riders and hippies and all kind of people. It's el Valle del Silencio, where peyote grows or used to grow wildly.
OK Stef - I changed the link for Plan A in my signature - Pep's Carrot and Stick of Plan A in the Just Found out forum is much better than the one I originally linked as in subsequent posts she explains every part. Click on it and read Pep's posts.
Oh Stef - this is a list I've seen posted by MrWondering a few times - Print it out and stick it where you will look at it often:
DOs
1. Act Happy 2. Get a life (new activities, etc.) 3. repeat over and over..."I will make it" 4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone 5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point) 6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum) 7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc) 8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong 9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)
DON'Ts
1. Repeatedly say "I love you" 2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet 3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag 4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions 5. Argue, Reason or Plead 6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST) 7. Act helpless or depressed 8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble 9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea) 10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship" 11. GIVE UP
BK, this is going to be the War of the Rulers. Hahhaha
Morning Ma'am, I mean Nam, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
How are you today?
I was curious, did you study to be a teacher and then took a specialization to be art teacher? There is a MB LWP36 that's struggling to reach a decision between settling to be a teacher or pursue the acreditations to be art teacher.
You're not the only one who would love to have a one on one pottery teacher. Honestly, what they need most is time at the wheel to improve their skills. Students will often look for the magic approach to making pottery. They think I can impart THE perfect technique. So much of pottery is about feeling your way with the clay. What works for me may not work or be comfortable for you. Time & the commitment to get it right is what works. Otherwise known as practice.
One night stands? EW! Not even in my dreams. Plus, think of the cootees!
Pio, I didn't see the pctures larousse saw but how nice you were able to make G's dream of seeing The Taj Mahal come true.
Todd, what I mean about being too understanding of your WW's inability to fess up to her affair & her not acknowledging your illness is that the reasoning sounds likeit staight out of a pop psyc. book which to me screams excuse & entitlement.
I can picture it now a BS says to a WS "Do you think you can't acknowledge your affair because it's too horrible to contemplate that you have gone against all you beleive in to screw OP?" WS quickly calculates their chances of success at getting away with something & says "YES! That's exactly right! I'm so torn apart by what I've done I just can't imagine it's even true." The next second they're on the phone to OP making plans for whatever or just to say ILY. GAWD! PUKE.
So far gemela's panacea is "I wasn't thinking" or "when you are having an affair, you don't think". So gemela is blaming everything on the affair and is therefore completely innocent because it was all natural (affairs do that to people don't they?) and beyond her control.
She is taking the best of SAA and using it to explain all her ills and now she has nothing to be responsbile for. She is taking the temporary insanity defense.
I tried to sleep but I'm freezing. Brrrr. I feel like pinguin with all the windows open to let the plaster dry on time before the painters come to work tomorrow. Maybe LWP is facing that choice, I'm not sure I understand quite well but her WS is pushing her to divorce and she doesn't know if she should seek work with the certification she has or pursue the Art teacher certificate.
Pio, the plomber that worked in the appartment upstairs tells incredible stories. He says he was a fightern, kind of Nelson? the kind that make the kind of coreographie the hamsters tried on the new arrival.
the plomber that worked in the appartment upstairs tells incredible stories. He says he was a fightern, kind of Nelson? the kind that make the kind of coreographie the hamsters tried on the new arrival.
He's just trying to impress you. Do Mexican plumbers have visible butt-crack like American plumbers? In the USA, I think it is a union requirement - besides - it is a great place to keep your pencil so it is always handy when you need it.
I have a parenting issue I'd lke some feedback on. I posted it on after D/dating board early this morning after waking up too early & letting it piss me off. I think I'm less panicy now.
ex & I try to accomodate changes in scheduling concerning the kids. I have done the majority of accomodating & mostly weekend changes.
ex asked me last week if I would change this 3 day weekend. I said no I can't I'm busy. He askes again last night but askes only for Sat. afternoon to Sun. morning. No I say, I'm busy.
The problem is my oldest son wants to go to a day time with concert with a friend he has had planned for at least a month. As it is he will be staying with me Fri. night because I live closer to the concert location & the friend's parents can pick up & drop son off at my house. That's one accomodation.
ex was to pick up son Sat. evening then he would spend the remainder of the WE with him. Now he's asked for oldest to stay here Sat. night as well & bring the other two Sat. afternoon to spend the night & he will pick them up Sun.
Uh, no, I'm busy.
The problem is I don't want son to miss the concert because ex is selfish. I just found out from son this morning ex wants to attend gf's class reunion. I'm not feeing like baling ex & gf outof their little bind. Hey, thisis what a never married no kids woman gets when she hooksup with a mna with 3 kids. They come with responsibilities you @^*#@!
I've told oldest son he can stay here Sat. IF his father can't manage to make this work out. What I don't want is ex try to fanagle anything else involving the other two. Oldest son can feed himself & spend more time alone than the others can.
To top it off ex trys to word things in such a way that he thinks I will find appealing which I can see coming out of gf's mouth. IDJIOTS!
I have not experience at all about your situation.
From an outsider point of view seems easy to say that you should do what better suit you and your boys, no matter what your X wants.
I have no idea if it's an issue but sometimes family and friends tend to see the no dating no attached woman as the one who should be more adaptable to the needs of all around. Unfair, I tell you.
Todd, the other part, the part about your wife not acknowledging your illness is bizarre. This also seems too easy to say she can't imagine you're not the invincible man she's always relied on.
I seems more like selfishness gone to the extreme. She doesn't want it to be true so she puts away under I don't want to deal with this 'cause it will be a pain in my a!! & goes on her it's all about me entitlement path.
Were you ever able to see Sandi Gold's 20/20 piece?
the plomber doesn't show his crack but he neither has an impressive behind as far as I can notice, oops. He does fold the already short sleeves of his T-Shirts and always smell to just applied lotion. I find that nice in a non sexual way, like a man who takes care of himself even when he does such a 'dirty' job.
Obviously I am not in the same situation (yet?) but my thought is how the kids perceive this. They have limited time with Dad and now Dad wants to limit that time further because GF is more important.
Looking at it from the kids' POV, I would say it is important that they have the most structure the two of you can provide. Kids adapt better when things are predictable. I think it is easier for adults to adjust than for them.
I agree that DS should see the concert. I also think you are doing great to not readjust your life to meet GF's needs.
My view is that a promise is a promise. Dad promised the kids he would see them. He should see them and screw the GF (figuratively, of course) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
let me get this straight. He-man plumber busts into your apartment (literally) and then proceeds to tell you stories about all his exploits while flexing his muscles? I have never seen a plumber wear cologne on the job. Are you SURE there was a leak upstairs???
I agree with you about people expecting the NMNK (never married, no kids) men or women to be more accomodating can be an unfair expectation. HOWEVER, this is a woman who knowingly got involved with a man with 3 kids. I've even heard she persued him. To then expect the ex W, me, to bend over backwards to accomodate their social plans, I don't think so.
I'd heard at one point in their fairy tale romance ex almost broke up with her because she was being unreasonable about a picnic they had planned & middle son had a Dr.s appointment that conflicted. ex TOLD me I MUST cancel, middle son couldn't posible make this long standing appointment. Words out of her stupid mouth. Should she be more accomodating? IMO, yes.
I saw that too but decided to see if it would slip by unnoticed. Guess not.
I do not like to, nor do I, drag my boys into these situations with ex. But this directly affects older son & I needed to let him know he can spend the night with me Sat. if his father can't work out this social dilemma. I don't want him to tell his father this as ex may try tyo make it work to his advantage.
My guess is gf is starting to resent, again, the amount of time 3 children take away from her & ex's perfect romance. I guess the soul mate manual didn't talk much about the needs of kids.
When he first asked me to change the three day weekend I figured some lucious travel opportunity came up for him & gf which the children interfered with. I can almost picture their two idjiot faces trying to figure a way to get me to help them with their problem.
Sorry Nam, I expressed incorrectly, by 'no dating no attached woman' I meant you, not OW. It's my language handicap, I thought not attached meant a woman without a partner, a husband or a BF, for the moment, meaning you. I thought that for your XH and his OW it may seem easy to ass_ume that as you don't have a BF at the moment, acording to them you may not have weekend commitments. Sorry Nam, I didn't mean to say that you should acomodate to his and her selfish demands in anyway, shape or form.
me thinks larousse has indeed noticed the plumber & the pencil stored in his crack & she's liking it. Now I want to get this right so I don't get this smelling of stuff mixed up...the pencil no...the colonge if perhaps your BF is an exbf?
But I do understand that point of veiw as I have a NMNK friend who has dated men with children. She is unique I believe in that she wants the man to put his children first, it is a man devoted to his children that she likes. But there are times the two might work together rather than to exclusion of on or the other.
I'm having coffee people, you can't make me laugh so hard.
BF is very much boyfriend. Not only that, he tells me what to tell the workers, plumber included. I hesitate a little, wondering if the comments of an American would appply to Mx construction habits. Every time BF has been correct in the way things should be done and the way I should handle the workers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I promise not to look at any man behind or front for that matter, until BF arrival in two weeks. I was going to go this time but he got a deal that gets him three trips for the price of one mine.
Now, no pencil comments please, I'm going to have breakfast.
Now getting back to the students who don't ask nicely for me to sit on them.
They must not only be relegated to watching, for some this is what they like, they must bring whatever it is they want to sit on since I don't provide that. For some it may be a doll referred to earlier or a special chair one might find in an adult store geared to women. Or, you know, some men.
Yes larousse you're right. I think ex & gf do [censored] u me because I don't have a SO in my life I'm in a position to accomodate their social life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />IDJIOTS!
Gotto go. I have to get middle son dress clothes for an opera he'll be attending tomorrow. His three sets of dress cloths from last year no longer fit this sweet boy who is 12 & taller than me.
Good luck with the plumber. Let it slip you have a BF...oh wait maybe not..then he may forgo the cologne & use his pencil. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
And Stef - just so you know, I do intend on keeping grounding you. You just may save your marriage. Can you see how your husband is changing and you are becoming attractive to him again? You have the upper hand Stef.
I figured that was your intent. So, I printed out the reverse babble, Pep's carrot and stick of Plan A, and Mr Wondering's list.
I am starting to see how he is changing, I just don't trust it yet. But I am more motivated to continue on in Plan A!
And, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on having him spend the night. It is still technically his house and I'm working tonight, so I won't get home until about 10 pm, so we won't have too much time to spend together anyway. I plan on going about my business when I get home tonight, just like any other night.
If you ever send the Hope diamond by DHL, Saudi customs doesn't care how much something is really worth - they only care what you put down as the "declared value" on the airway bill. So value the diamond at about $5.00 and they don't charge customs because it just isn't worth the bother. So basically - LIE!
I will need to catch up, again….but thought I would start the day with this post to you all (before I forget what I want to say)!
The ‘moment’ has passed…and thanks to you all…without toooo much damage done!
I intend to stay on course and ‘stick it out’ as I promised myself…the two-year mark before getting a D paper….that way, I will be at peace with myself, no regrets, knowing that I will have given S a chance and enough time to ‘resurface’ should he want to…..
…which is why you are all getting a big cyberspace hug from me
(((((((((((TKO group))))))))))))
(in particular, you Todd, …are you listening Kiwi???…LOL!)
Had you not all been there…for me to come to…and put myself ‘out there’ FIRST…I would not have seen what I saw…and could have gotten myself into a lot of trouble!
What I saw… was a person on her way to ‘losing herself’…no more no less…getting herself on a path that I now believe…a WS may initially take….and DOES get lost, and that is: justifying acting on IMPULSE… (or even worse, acting on impulse then needing to justify it….as would be, I think, more true to the scenario of a WS)
When I heard myself asking you all, and myself: Why not?? WS has moved out… WS has chosen to be with OW…. WS has dumped me… my needs are not being met and they should… and the cruncher: a D is only a piece of paper, AFTERALL!
I heard a little voice in me telling me: OK, kiddo…if a D is only a piece of paper, then first get it…. before getting involved with anyone else…in ANY WAY!
…to do it any other way…would mean compromising my standards!
As a responsible adult, I need to take care of myself, my boys, and the wider circle of all those ‘I care for’….. and in particularly, my boys…because, if before they had two responsible adults in their lives…now one of them has taken a wrong turn (hopefully temporarily, or not!) and is taking the long way back home….or may stay lost…
The pressure is on, for me, to not lose my head as well!
When I saw myself lowering my standards for SF….. when throughout my life, for me, it only has meaning as an expression of a ‘special connection’ with another person…. I saw myself starting to take a path that could ‘spiral me down’…… because sex without a true ‘connection’….I believe is harmful to the soul…and will leave you lonelier than before…. and comparable to ‘prostituting’ my body…. trying to fill the hole that is in me right now……knowing that nothing, really, can fill it…..
For my own respect, and the respect of any other future person in my life….. as hard as it is…. I will have to continue on my path to ‘closing’ the door to one person…..before opening it up for another…..
It’s just the way it’s going to have to be!
As far as SF being fulfilled….it will just have to wait…. or take up suggestions made by Larousse, BigK, Nams, Todd, and others…..
Again, thank you, my friends, from the bottom of my heart….. I will forever be indebted to you all… because of you…I caught myself in the nick of time…. and was able to take the ‘shorter’ path HOME!
I did do something I regret & will have to apologize to oldest son for.
When he told me ex wanted the weekend kid free so he could attend gf's reunion I lost it. I told him I'll make sure he gets to the concert & he can spend the night with me Sat. too but not to tell dad yet. Let's see if dad can get his selfish a.s to figure out away to make this work without me to bale him out.
If I had stars for being nice & a good mommy for keeping this kind of s..t away from the boys I lost them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Now quick like a rabbit go to the adult store! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
There were two and a half pairs of socks. A pencil with no eraser, a DC adapter that had burned out so now has gotten shipped to a landfill in Saudi and the glasses in a really cool case. There was no breakdown in value - just total declared value.
During the month of Ramadan is an especially good time to get things through Saudi customs. They can't have their morning coffee or cigarettes so are really sleepy all day. Their eyes don't open enough to see what is really inside.
Before you worry too much about them fasting all month, The vast majority actually gain weight during the month rather than lose.
Thanks Pio. I have prided myself on not talking their father down. Even when they fish around saying things, especially the odest, about ex's behavior at times, I hold my tongue. Today I reached a limit.
Todd, what I mean about being too understanding of your WW's inability to fess up to her affair & her not acknowledging your illness is that the reasoning sounds likeit staight out of a pop psyc. book which to me screams excuse & entitlement.
Hi nams,
If I had to pick one word that seemed to describe WW's attitude about her A, it would be entitlement. She still believes that she was.
Todd, the other part, the part about your wife not acknowledging your illness is bizarre. This also seems too easy to say she can't imagine you're not the invincible man she's always relied on.
I neither understand nor can explain it. I truly believe that she cannot admit it because it would make her decision (oops, forgot, it is not a decision; it just happened) to have an affair unjustifiable.
Quote
I seems more like selfishness gone to the extreme. She doesn't want it to be true so she puts away under I don't want to deal with this 'cause it will be a pain in my a!! & goes on her it's all about me entitlement path.
This makes sense to me.
Quote
Were you ever able to see Sandi Gold's 20/20 piece?
No. I disengaged my AV and Malware and even tried two different media players to no avail. I cannot get it to play.
the plomber doesn't show his crack but he neither has an impressive behind as far as I can notice, oops.
It needs to be said that American plumbers also do not have impressive behinds or cracks. It's a union requirement. We hired a plumber so bad that I paid him extra to wear a towel around his waist.
Wow! Half way down the page! I thought perhaps the thread was removed for naughtiness. Or, maybe.....there's a MBer brand of rabbit we should be talking about...?
Hi Todd! All's well?
What news are you waiting to hear about your illness? Besides the obvious that's your tumor (yes?) is completely gone never to return.
I did write you a while back about the specific names of Sandi's tumor, did you get that & did it mean anything to you.
What I can tell you about her brain tumor is that at the time, about 15, 20 years ago she was given one year to live. The Dr.s felt there was no way to operate because the tumor was in the middle of the brain & unreachable. She did her own research & found a Dr. in Boston who was using a spectrograme, spectrometer (?). A machine that pin points the tumor with radiation. The patient waits to see if over time the tumor is shrinking.
What made me get on this subject is your mention of your radiation burns. Sandi's lasting problems, which are minimal, are due to the radiation she thinks.
These are some of her problems: She lost the use of her left hand for a time. She's still is a bit weak on her left side. She's left handed & this meant she had to retrain herself to paint with her right hand. Her balance is off. She sufferers from migrains. All these things are exacerbated by being run down & tired. The problems didn't show up for a few years after her treatment.
Gawd, I'm cheery. Tell me to stop if this is something you'd rather not discuss, I'll delete.
Well, first step in getting middle son his dress clothes is done. Now he has to try them on & if they fit decide they aren't too embarrassing to wear. No small task either one after all I did pick them out. At least I didn't have to buy for a girl.
Wish me luck I'm also working on getting oldest son to cut the grass. We've gotten a new mower blade since he hit the rock & ruined the old blade.
Good luck Nams, I'd rather buy for a girl...can get a dress and accessories cheaper and with more selection than boys clothes...do they even make anything besides black, navy blue and khaki pants for boys? My son has basically had a uniform to wear for dress events they include the mentioned colored pants, a long sleeve white button down and matching belt, shoe, tie to coordinate with pant... all of which were purchased at different department stores b/c they never can manage to have all of what you need in one store anymore.
My girls are easy since there is a huge selection for their ages. My DS is a slim and it is killer to find decent pants that fit the slim child:(
If you have any advice in this area let me have it!
Hey there 2much! I always start in the clearance section then work my way up. You're right about the choices for boys, blue, black or khaki, that's it. Today I was lucky enough to find everything either on deep sale or clearance & in one store, J.C. Penney. Woo Hoo!
This child is easy compared to my oldest, but now that he prefers black he's gotten easier. They fit AND he will wear them. Since ex left most of his clothes behind when he moved on to his new life I found a tie that actually matches. I must be living right.
Oldest has not cut the grass & is asking me for something. This is when things get interesting...sort of.
Wow! Half way down the page! I thought perhaps the thread was removed for naughtiness. Or, maybe.....there's a MBer brand of rabbit we should be talking about...?
Haven't seen a MB brand but the original is pretty cheap these days. Not that I know what it is or what it is for, but I do know it is cheap.
Quote
Hi Todd! All's well?
Yes.
Quote
What news are you waiting to hear about your illness? Besides the obvious that's your tumor (yes?) is completely gone never to return.
I will get my second followup post treatment MRI in a week or two. The first one showed no change so lots of hope and positive expectations riding on this one. And yes, I have never considered anything other than it will be gone. Maybe not the next scan, but not long after.
Quote
I did write you a while back about the specific names of Sandi's tumor, did you get that & did it mean anything to you.
Nams, I do seem to recall that you wrote with the name of her tumor but I don't recall. Memory not so good these days. Makes everyday a fresh day. Well, not completely fresh but it's okay.
Quote
What I can tell you about her brain tumor is that at the time, about 15, 20 years ago she was given one year to live. The Dr.s felt there was no way to operate because the tumor was in the middle of the brain & unreachable. She did her own research & found a Dr. in Boston who was using a spectrograme, spectrometer (?). A machine that pin points the tumor with radiation. The patient waits to see if over time the tumor is shrinking.
Yeah, the waiting is the hardest. There are many approaches to radiation therapy and I am not familiar with all of them. I received some high, single dose shots which were debilitating. Then, I underwent fractionated, or hyperfractionated treatment which are 2-3 small doses per day for five weeks. I don't recommend it as a form of recreation. Today's radiation machines are so much more precise than in the past but still, the best one is only 98% precise. Guess where the stray 2% goes? Explains my mental deficits. Well, part of them anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My tumor is in my brainstem area which is not the best place to grow one. If only I had known....
Quote
What made me get on this subject is your mention of your radiation burns. Sandi's lasting problems, which are minimal, are due to the radiation she thinks.
These are some of her problems: She lost the use of her left hand for a time. She's still is a bit weak on her left side. She's left handed & this meant she had to retrain herself to paint with her right hand. Her balance is off. She sufferers from migrains. All these things are exacerbated by being run down & tired. The problems didn't show up for a few years after her treatment.
I have had some gait problems and some twitching and shaking on my left side. Yesterday, my left hand and forearm starting shaking and it wouldn't stop. I called my doc and he said it was not a seizure but another side effect. I thought it was another seizure initially but it wasn't. Apparently, the radiation causes the brain to swell and hence creates pressure which is no good. I have fallen a couple of times but fortunately, no serious injuries. Memory is shot at some intervals I cannot triangulate. I have had some headaches, a couple severe. But all in all, it could have been much worse. Oh yeah, some hair falling out, but mostly where the beams entered my scalp. It can still happen weeks or months down the road so I keep my fingers crossed.
Quote
Gawd, I'm cheery. Tell me to stop if this is something you'd rather not discuss, I'll delete.
Nams, I don't mind discussing at all. It is not something I bring up a lot, at least not the details, but it is because I don't want to complain about it. That's all. I am very fortunate in the sense that my WW's A took my eye off my health for a long time.
I don't know yet. Probably. I need to do some PR work with DS3 first. He is a tough cookie so I need to be exceptionally clear and clever with him which will not be easy.
You know how to look on the positive side Todd, calling your WW's affair a diversion. Humor too, good for you.
Sandi had just one radiation treatment. I'm guessing it was a massive dose.
If I'm not being too intrusive how did you discover you had a brain tumor?
Sandi discovered it because she started getting violent around her periods. She'd always had big hormone swings but she started throwing dishes at her BF. Not her usual mode of registering displeasure.
When she was informed that she had a brain tumor they told her, oh BTW it's inoperable, do you have someone who can bring you home? I hope your Dr. was more sensitive with you.
Son has cut half the yard! He wants a medal but I'm going to wait until he finishes the second half in a month or so. That's not as bad as it sounds, this way he also chops up leaves & there is less raking to do.
Now he want the track. be back later after some studio time. The boys are with their father tonight.
No plumber today, he comes next Monday to change the bathroom faucet and valves.
Nam, about the front question... did I tell you plumber has two gold up front tooths? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Luna
You sound very grounded, congrats. I know it's not easy but you are right, it's not worth your self respect and most probably it won't satisfy you, the casual sex I mean. To see Pios family pics, eraese everything after the .com from his link to the phone stats, click go and you'll go to his main site. Warning, DD's are very cute.
I'll look for your answer later Todd if decide you want to answer my question that is.
Sandi gets contacted A LOT by people who have experienced brain tumors either themselves or through a loved one. They seem drawn to her in part I think because she survived after being told she wouldn't & because she found a way in the midst of the horror a brain tumor brings to appreciate her life more than ever.
"Memory not so good these days. Makes everyday a fresh day. Well, not completely fresh but it's okay." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> [color:"green"] [/color] Todd check your e-mail.
I am a long time lurker, I have read this thread with great interest,amusement and sadness at times. I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents worth. I feel that I know each and every one of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I have had some gait problems and some twitching and shaking on my left side. Yesterday, my left hand and forearm starting shaking and it wouldn't stop.
Every time I think about WW coming home, the same thing happens to me. It may not be the tumor/treatment. Not that that helps any.
I'm up because DD2 had a nightmare and was afraid. Si I had her crawl in bed with me. 5 minutes later she was sound asleep so I carried her and rat/bear back to her bed.
I'm excited. I got a call last night from the freight forwarder telling me my shipment cleared and they will bring it today at 9:00 AM (more or less) insha'lah. Woo Hoo! I am going to start with the paraffin bath. And everything just in time for the weekend! Tonight I have two soccer games...darn! Oh my? a half dozen movers in the house and not one can of Glade! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Let the maid handle the move she's used to the stench and is that paraffin bath to restore your feet to their former magnificence?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
BK won't be very happy with another name to learn though. Be afraid of BK, he's the ruler maker this month. Don't ask who's is ruler maker next month, not a safe question.
Pio, you should be sleeping, you need that beauty sleep this week, remember.
Oh, and I forgot about the $6000 of scrapbook materials! And the remote control light dimmers for the DDs rooms! And the new combo shower head with 200 computer designed accunozzles. I won't be able to sleep the rest of the night! But I need to try.
Sandi had just one radiation treatment. I'm guessing it was a massive dose.
I believe that hyper fractionated therapy was first used several years ago so yes, it sounds like she had a massive dose.
Quote
If I'm not being too intrusive how did you discover you had a brain tumor?
It was a long and circuitous route. My initial symptom was headaches. After a while, I visited my quack PCP who diagnosed the headaches as sinus. With all the trees and fauna in the Atlanta area, it made sense. Many here suffer with sinus problems. Over time, the headaches got worse. He still said that they were sinus related and could even be caused by a change in atmospheric pressure, as when a high pressure fronts comes through. Made sense. Next, I was playing guitar one day and could not control my smallest two fingers on my left hand. It was then that I realized that my fingers had been tingling and numb for some time. PCP said it was due to neck disc. Then the hormone imbalances manifested themselves. Of course, I had no idea what was going on but I was deeply depressed which was high unusual for me, tired, poor concentration, memory, etc. I could no longer function at work. By this time, problems were showing up clinically as in blood tests. My sodium levels plunged which make you weak and listless. I was referred to a hematologist who concluded that although my sodium levels were low, they were not alarming and to keep a check on them.
Finally, I knew something was wrong. I never ever suspected a brain tumor. They happen to other people don’t they? I basically read my PCP the riot act and he finally, under pressure, decided to send me for a CT scan. It was clear. The doc at the facility referred me to a neurologist who diagnosed migraine headaches.
Then, in August of 2005, I became really ill. It felt like the flu. After a few days, I called my doc and talked to the office nurse. After telling her my symptoms, she instructed me to immediately go to the hospital. Since I was unable to drive at that point, I waited for WW to come home from work. I told her what the nurse said. WW called her BF who is an RN. BF assured WW that doctors and nurses just tell you that to cover themselves. WW talked me out of going to the ER. It almost cost me my life.
The next day, I was much worse. I again called my doc’s office and was scolded for not going to the ER. I told them I wanted to go to their office to get evaluated. They refused but I finally talked them into it. I called DS2 who drove me to the office. The doc took one look at me and told my son to get me to the ER immediately. Fortunately, it was a block away. By the time we got into the ER, I could no longer walk. They brought out a wheelchair and whisked me to the back. I went into a coma and didn’t wake up for four days. I learned that I had pneumonia, pericardial effusion, hyponatremia (low sodium) and although I didn’t know it yet, a brain tumor. The hyponatremia was 114; levels below 115 are associated with death. What I didn’t know until later is that the docs had told my family to say goodbye to me, that there was no way I could survive what I had plunged into.
I was visited by two docs, a neurologist and an endocrinologist. They told me that they thought that I had a brain tumor based strictly on symptoms. Honestly, I was in denial. I asked them questions and they had the answers and wanted me to get an MRI. An MRI is no fun and it takes approx. 75 minutes not counting setup. I did not get it during that stay. I still felt awful and told them I would get it later. Later was in November. By that time, I again had pericardial effusion and hyponatremia. I got the MRI in the morning and on the same day, I was sent to the ER. This time I went.
The next day, a team of docs entered my room. When an entire team enters your room at the same time, trust me, it can come to no good. There was a neurologist, neurosurgeon, endocrinologist and radiation oncologists. The first words were: ToddAC, you have a large tumor. The only word that I heard was “large”. It stood out for some reason. I never believed that I had a tumor, let alone a “large” one. I jokingly asked: in the tumor business, what constitutes large? 4 Cm I think is what he said. I was alone because WW and sons were at work. Then the docs took turns explaining the location, size, problems it created and treatment options. The sole treatment option was radiation. There was a possibility of chemo but it is something I would refuse. The neurosurgeon said it was inoperable and even doing a biopsy was risky. The size of the tumor could be charted with successive MRI’s and a reasonably accurate prognosis could be made.
After we were finished, they left the room. They told me that the most important factor was my attitude. I agreed. Now, how to tell my boys. They obviously knew about the MRI but how would I tell them about the tumor? By this time, I knew that WW had been having an A although I had not confronted her yet. I didn’t figure she would care much because it was obvious that she had fallen madly in love with OM and I also had been given my I love you but I am not in love with you speech. My guess was correct. She didn’t want me to tell our sons. Once she entered the world of chronic lies associated with her cheating, her lying knew no boundaries. I told her to get lost that they had to know. It was very difficult telling them. I still get choked up when I remember the scene and my telling them. They wouldn’t leave after that. One spent the night with me and the other two wouldn’t leave until 4:30 in the morning.
I was immediately put on hormone therapy and after two weeks, I awoke one morning feeling like a 25 year old. The difference was amazing. I had already started the infidelity diet, unwittingly, and even WW told me I was too skinny. One of the hormones help me to gain some weight back but I still don’t have much of an appetite. I decided over the weekend to start eating more healthy which means I’ll get the local deli to deliver most of my dinners.
Sorry, didn’t mean to go into so much detail. It just sort of came out.
Quote
When she was informed that she had a brain tumor they told her, oh BTW it's inoperable, do you have someone who can bring you home? I hope your Dr. was more sensitive with you.
The docs were a little more sensitive than that; well, not the neurosurgeon. He was a horse’s a$$. The others were excellent. But you know, they deal with it day in and day out and they do get a little cold and removed. I guess they have to deal with it.
Yep Todd, the neurosurgeon has an enlarged neck from wearing his halo all day. Typical. He thinks he walks on water too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
But in their defense, they do have to deal with it and they have to develop their own coping mechanisms which some times take the form of being a horse's patoot. He was probably frustrated that it was inoperable. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
this is peanuts in front of your condition but... I have tried the Omega 6 and 3, fish oil and nuts oil to improve memory. There is a French neuroligist, well he works half of the time in the States and he has developed a therapy based on fish oil to help regenerate brain cells.
You are welcome to stay but a requirement of participating in this thead is French bashing. If you cannot bring yourself to bash France, at a minimum, do not be a French sympathiser.
French?????? Who are the french??? So ineffectual, insignificant, and cowardly as to not ever be known to me. Where are they??? Oops, I know, never there when you need them or when they say they will be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
And furthermore, why would you capitalize french or france?? They are an apparition, there is nothing of substance there.
I'm excited. I got a call last night from the freight forwarder telling me my shipment cleared
...I guess we can expect to hear about your scrapbooking challenges very soon, then...LOL!
Quote
Oh, and I forgot about the $6000 of scrapbook materials!
You, see???....I knew it, I knew it, OH GAWD!
Quote
I am a long time lurker, I have read this thread with great interest,amusement and sadness at times. I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents worth. I feel that I know each and every one of you.
Hello...long time lurker.... take your time... we don't bite! ...can you add more than 2 cents..... or you will be accused of being cheap around here!
Quote
There is a French neuroligist..
Larousse....you should know better than to talk to Todd about anything F******....you'll just upset him... he has accepted your name...but you should not push your luck!
Todd...I am really sorry that your WW wasn't there for you when you most needed someone...and still isn't, I guess...but you seem to have 3 handsome, precious, devoted sons that love you very very much...and for that I glad for you...
Thanks Kiwi. It's nice to be here. And yes they are as cute as they can possibly be. So glad I am done with that phase of my life however. A handful, no doubt. Wonder where they get that from????? Oh.....Pio??? You still here??
Yes, Luna, when I get up and going and over my initial shyness, you will be amazed at all the contributions I will be able to make. This thread will never be the same!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd, I am glad to hear that you are going to try to eat better. Read your E-mail!!!! Pretty please.
Luna, your new name is going to be Sherlock. How very perceptive of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Married 37 years, found myself in "love" with someone else and didn't know why. Took me a long time and a lot of reading to figure the whole mess out. MB has been a big help. My one claim to fame is I didn't get to sleep with him. Recovering and doing ever so much better. Thankyou. I will reveal all slowly it will take some courage.
Larousse....you should know better than to talk to Todd about anything F******....you'll just upset him... he has accepted your name...but you should not push your luck!
Yeah, larousse.
Quote
Todd...I am really sorry that your WW wasn't there for you when you most needed someone...and still isn't, I guess...but you seem to have 3 handsome, precious, devoted sons that love you very very much...and for that I glad for you...
Yes, Luna, when I get up and going and over my initial shyness, you will be amazed at all the contributions I will be able to make. This thread will never be the same!!
WOW...well, OK....and I guess since you a 'long time lurker'...I suppose you now know that I can be very patient.... I am prepared to go another year...SEXLESS.... in PLAN B limboland!
I wish Dr. H. would mention this about PLAN B...... he subtly leaves this point out....even though, I guess, one could say it should be obvious.....some of us aren't that quick!
I will hold out on my claim for 'false representation' then.....
If we needed a shorten version of your name....what would you like it to be? .....otherwise, you will have to accept whatever BigK decides!
Hola, personally I prefer no moustacho because I like to kiss to much and the hair somehow gets in the way, lol. Also, the mouth are is very sensible, isn't it, if the moustacho hair is to thick it gets uncomfortable to kiss pasionately.
Um, that wasn't quite what I was thinking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
They do say though that a kiss without a mustache is like an egg without salt.
Rob grew a full beard and moustache soon after we married and I didn't like it all.
Kiwi, I think it has to do with their body types. All plumbers seems to be long-waisted and have no rear to hold up the back side of their britches. It must be a requirement to get into Plumbing Academy.
Well, Kiwi, maybe not in the front, but the rear always seems to be disproportionate to me. All they really need is some suspenders. But maybe they can find any with plungers on them.
I said it, but i am trying my hardest to overcome it. You don't just jump into a thread like this and instantly lose all your inhibitions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
yes, I need help with the quotes feature and also with the colored text. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
If I am doing well, it's because I have read here for so long and even though you don't know me, I know all of you well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
So Todd, what did you have for supper that is good for you???
I think I am finally getting over my trauma and I wish to help others and there is one on here in particular that is being rather resistant to my meddlesome ways. So I decided to come out of the closet. And that's the truth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
All smart remarks aside, this is a very interesting group of people and there is so much to be learned from every one of you.
You did good. And Wed was always Mexican food day in school where I grew up. It was to die for. Those Mexican ladies who cooked for us made the very best enchiladas I have ever tasted and I have tasted a bunch of them in my lifetime. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Far too many in fact.
BTW I lost my moustache one year and 360 days ago. I got rid of it for a very specific reason that I am NOT going to post here but most can probably guess anyway.
Loved the magazine BigK. I'll download and save the jpeg. That's just too good.
ToddAC is right about the butt spackle. I've seen an infomercial on that with before and after pictures. Truly amazing idea.
Wow Todd! You have a remarkable attitude. There's really nothing to be said about your WW that hasn't been clear by her behavior. You're a strong man no doubt.
Your boys must be everything to you now. Well, except the thought of SF! EEK! I've started down the smart [censored] path. Is there any turning back?
Hi Nams, I have a son and DIL who did some serious potting before they got so busy with life and kids. Nice things. Not famous, but wonderfully creative and some even useful things. Lots of heavy duty stoneware.
Now about that turning back, you'd probably better. Somehow I don't think that's going to be a path anyone will follow you down.
I had to deal with a neurosurgeon for a while. I had two neck disks removed & filled in with bone from my hip after I crashed my motorcycle into a chain. He had the personality of stone with the arrogance of an opera star. I'l bet his mommy told him each & every day he was the most special boy on earth. I'm pretty sure he was single.
FC, if I could be a potter & make a living I'd do it in a heart beat. Some do but it's a BIG step to take with three boys who want to eat.
I know of one couple, the wife is the potter the H sells her work. They both seem very happy & she's not just doing production work witch will kill creativity in a nano second.
Does your son or DIL do any pottery work any more?
Food for thought;
food in a mustache, butt crack spackle in a mustache, drool in a mustache. You get the picture. Plus...they poke.
Nams, I once knew one whose Mother had her labor induced so she could beat the first grade enrollment deadline. The big questions is how was the surgical outcome. I don't care if they are dead fish as long as they can make me better.
Wow Todd! You have a remarkable attitude. There's really nothing to be said about your WW that hasn't been clear by her behavior. You're a strong man no doubt.
Thanks nams and sorry for writing a book. I guess WW is very telling with her behavior.
Quote
Your boys must be everything to you now. Well, except the thought of SF! EEK! I've started down the smart [censored] path. Is there any turning back?
It has brought us even closer if that was possible.
You will have to ask Luna about turning back. The way I interpreted what she said, well.....do you remember the fable of the tortoise and the hare (rabbit)? The rabbit made a pit stop or two and won the battle, but lost the race. Or to put it another way, the rabbit didn't quite finish the race because she decided that winning without affection was not worth the effort. Or something like that.
larousse, I did not make anything pretty tonight. Pottery has its cycles. You make, trim, glaze & fire. I did make a couple of bowls the other day. Nothing exciting but bowls sell pretty well.
I've been doing sort of a landscape thing when I glaze & those sell quite well.
Nams, they are with a new child, she's finishing her Ph.D in physics and he's working his [email]a@@[/email] off trying to impress the higher ups in the company he is with. Obviously, it's a great avocation but a very scary vocation with a family. They have all their equipment in storage and some day......wistfully.
The outcome was fair. I think I'd search out even more options before having that kind of surgery again. My neck is stiff & doesn't have much range of motion but I suppose it beats numb extremities & constant back pain.
Todd, how could you not write a book. Your path to the discovery of your brain tumor was long & torturous. Compaired to how your felt pre problems leading to the discovery how do you feel now?
Tee hee, tortoise & the hare...oh I see not hair as is mustache hair, 'cause that pokes. I'm pretty sure the rabbit has no hair.
Shhh, don't mention tools! Or motors, or engineering stuff! These men want nothing more than to chase off the womens with talk of tools & such.
Todd, what do you like to read? Right now I'm reading John Irving's A widow for a Year. I just finished his newest book, tome really, Until I Find You. I love his work.
Hey Kiwi, your daughter & her BF didn't happen to rent an R.V. to travel around the US did they?
I saw a couple today trying to get out of the local CVS parking lot, having great difficulty, obviously foreign, not that that's a bad thing of course...first I saw them loading up at the liquor store. Are they visiting New England?
Well my shipment will be here in 4 hours and 24 minutes and the first thing I am going to do is open up my Yeager's care package (all the nuts, bolts, screws, etc. I bought from there), lay them all out and drool a bit. [note to self: put on an old shirt]. Then I am going to imagine all the things I can now create with these things.
You have no idea how hard it is to find a bolt here (I was going to say screw but caught myself so nams wouldn't make any dirty comments) in Saudi.
You are so lucky to have Yeager's. Appreciate what you have.
Hey! Me, make dirty comments...I don't think so. I forgot to mention when I was alone in the studio over the weekend Patrick Sweezy came to help. Ghost love is not at all like you see in the movies.
Pio, I do appreciate what he has. It's half of Yeager's inventory in the garage and none of it can be found so when needed, it always needs to be repurchased. We are going to have a dynomite garage sale some day after he passes on. I'll invite you. There are huidden treasures galore. Do you need a 62 Volkswagon hood?? And all the screws and bolts to attach it with also.
BTW I am really depressed. My alarm got me up at 3:30 again. Darn thing does that almost every day. How does it remember to do that?
Anyway I turned on the TV and it was on Dubai One. I just caught the grand finale of The Biggest Loser and Ryan had just won. The reason I am so depressed is that I thought I was hands down winner. Now I realize I'm a loser even at being a loser.
nams,
You asked how I feel. It doesn't feel real. Maybe it is denial but I just have no concept of gemela coming back. I can't begin to get my mind around it. I guess I keep hoping something will happen to change her mind.
LMAO nams, no, it wasn't DD. Obviously foreign. WTH does that mean!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Still in San Fran as far as I know.
I took that as stph being put under an interrogation lamp.
Pio, if you have no need of the scrapbooking stuff, I will let Todd know my address and you can send it all to me as a gift for my being so supportive of you over the last however long it's been.
Todd, how could you not write a book. Your path to the discovery of your brain tumor was long & torturous. Compaired to how your felt pre problems leading to the discovery how do you feel now?
I actually feel better now because I take things to help control symptoms. Hormones are the biggest differentiator I would guess. I take so much medicine I hate it. But not too much choice right now. The difficult aspect is keeping it all balanced. Anticoagulants for blood to prevent clots, but not too much so as to cause bleeding. Just the right amount of hormones but not too much. My cortisol levels were really high after taking hydrocortisone for a while. Then there is the anti convulsions medicine. It is a laugh a minute. But it is a delicate balance, like walking a tightrope. Not for me, well in a way me, but really for the docs. It explains why they want to see me so often. Well, that and their college fund.
Obviously foreign because the man had dark socks on with sandals, she was outside the R.V. directing the man on how much space he had available to him to maneuver the R.V. & she was shouting the distance in meters.
Pio, if you have no need of the scrapbooking stuff, I will let Todd know my address and you can send it all to me
No way! I've cleaned out the dining room, sold all that furniture, moved all my power tools in and set up to scrapbook assembly line. I'm good to go. Still working on the compressor regulator. Last 1/8" brass brad penetrated 12" of concrete slab (and a metatarsal I was fond of).
Todd, don't forget they have to pay the almighty insurance companies for mal-practice also. For a neurosurgeon, I bet it's out of sight. Where is tort reform when you need it???
Pio, evidently we don't, we have had it in it's uninstalled state since 1988. The original pack rat.
Pio, I remember when ex moved out. He brought virtually nothing with him so it was as if he would return at any moment. It didn't take long to feel the relief of not having to work SO HARD to please ex, to make this house my home. The boys felt the relief too. I'm much more relaxed than ex. Let's see how does olsest son phrase that..."Dad's anal about lots of stuff." "He always lectures me."
Anyway, you've made your way with your girls very successfully & you are headed into unknown territory. Do you hope for G to have gotten herself together concerning her A & how to rebuild a marriage or do you bolster yourself for the same old, same old. The return of the roller coaster may be just around the corner. It's understandable you would be apprehensive.
Todd, what do you like to read? Right now I'm reading John Irving's A widow for a Year. I just finished his newest book, tome really, Until I Find You. I love his work.
nams,
since I became addicted to the web, I don't read that many books any more. Plus the tumor has affected my vision and I find it weary and tiresome to read pape after page.
Yes, I like John Irving. I have, or used to have, a first edition hardack of "The World According to Garp". Some of my favorite comtemporary writers include E.L. Doctorow, Anton Meyer ("The Last Convertible"; great book BTW), Joseph Heller, Phillip Roth, John D. McDonald and Kurt Vonegut. But my favorite recent writer is Mario Puzo. While he is best known for "The Godfather", all his books are wonderfully written and he had two books which were not that popular but received critical acclaim: "The Dark Arena" and "The Fortunate Pilgrim". I love storytellers and he was the best. I am also partial to science fiction, as opposed to science fantasy, and my favorites are Arthur C. Clarke, Issac Asmimov, Robert Heinlein and Ursula Leguinn.
As for the classics, I enjoy Dickens, Dostoevski, Steinbeck, Fitzgerald, Thackeray and Faulkner in small doses. I also like Carson McCullers but not everyone in this thread does. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
During the last few years, every book I have read has had to do with securities trading. I trade, or use to trade stocks and options. I stopped when my mental process broke down. It is a very analytical process and I could not keep up. So rather than risk my life's savings, I got away from it. When I have my cognizance back, assuming it comes back, I will resume trading. I thouroughly enjoy it and make good money doing it. Most people have no concept of the money being made in stocks, options and futures.
I'll tell you what strikes me. Your ability to make jokes. I've known people with a pimple who can't get over themselves & joke about it.
The fact you can appreciate what you have & look forward & be involved with your health care...remarkable really. That & you still manage to claim SF if your biggest EN. Yikes!
Todd, can I send you a sum of money to play with??? In your current state, I am sure you could do better than most who claim to do well in the market. I don't have the stomach for it. But I do like collecting profits.
Let me rephrase that. I don't have the intellect for it either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Obviously foreign because the man had dark socks on with sandals, she was outside the R.V. directing the man on how much space he had available to him to maneuver the R.V. & she was shouting the distance in meters.
This is very common summer attire in Boston's Southy district. It is locally called getting an "Irish tan". I was held prisoner of war for two years in Boston in the People's Republic of Massachusetts BTW.
The fact you can appreciate what you have & look forward & be involved with your health care...remarkable really. That & you still manage to claim SF if your biggest EN. Yikes!
Well SF is my biggest need. Cannot help it. And there's nothing to be done. I think I need to get checked or something. My SF need has not diminished since I was a teenager.
Todd, even before you were put on the hormone supplements, was SF your highest need?? Seems like that might have gone down the drain with hormonal imbalances. It never changed even before the tumor was discovered?
I'm one of those people who have no idea of the money being made in trading. I'm very intuitive. Analytical only in how I view people & their behavior. I see numbers & I glaze over...a bad reaction really.
Quite the list of authors you like! E.L. Doctorow does not have a place in my heart. Kurt Vonegut either. Perhaps I should try again. I like Anne Tyler. I like books about people & how they manage to get along & deal with the daily stuff, the things that come along & hit us hard when we least expect it. I'm almost done with this John Irving. Next I'll get The Last Convertable. What's it about?
I remember a couple of Mario Puzo books that I liked but the titles escape me, could be the ones you mentioned.
Do you ever listen to books on tape? The only time I have is on loooong cross coutry trips in the car. Since reading pages doesn't work for you maybe books on tape?
Todd, can I send you a sum of money to play with??? In your current state, I am sure you could do better than most who claim to do well in the market. I don't have the stomach for it. But I do like collecting profits.
I couldn't touch anyone's money right now. I won't even trade my own. Just to give you an idea of the potential, I have a friend in Switzerland who is likely the best trader I know. In 2002, he made almost 1,000% just trading SMH which is a semiconductor ETF. Now that is unusual but he uses hourly charts and makes a lot of trades. When trading hourlys, you have to trade a lot of money because the commisions would otherwise eat you alive. I forgot how many trades he made that year but it was hundreds.
I am more of the kind of trader who trades 8 -14 times a year or so. The returns you make are commensurate to the risk you are willing to take. My goal is 40% annually and I usually hit that mark.
i don't care how badly you say your mind has been affected by the irradiation, you are way beyond most people on their very best days. What a fine mind you must have.
Todd, even before you were put on the hormone supplements, was SF your highest need?? Seems like that might have gone down the drain with hormonal imbalances. It never changed even before the tumor was discovered?
Okay, you must be in the medical field. Yes, my libido suffered big time. My PCP tried to pass it off as "as we age". As I mildly told him: Bullsh!t. I knew something was wrong.
Kiwi, you must know to Americans anything that is not white socks with white sneakers is foreign. Try as we might (we don't really) meters just don't come naturally. Maybe I'm dating myself becuse my kids can think in meters without having to picture a foot as it relates to a meter.
"The Last Convertible" is a romantic yarn of sorts. The book starts with a group of new freshmen at Harvard who rapidly become outstanding friends. The Last Convertible is a Packard convertible owned by a french student. WW2 breaks out and the men go off to war. There is too much war correspondence between the friends to suit me, but nonetheless, Meyer is a great writer and wonderful storyteller. It takes place in Boston, a city I know fairly well, so that added to the enjoyment.
No, I do not do books on tape. Don't know why but cannot pay attention long enough. I was never able to pay attention in school either. Or when reading apparently which explains my substandard reading comprehension scores.
i don't care how badly you say your mind has been affected by the irradiation, you are way beyond most people on their very best days. What a fine mind you must have.
Well, thanks for the nice words but no, that is not true. I am humbled by the minds on this thread. With a noteable exception of course. And HE knows who he is.
OK, y'all keep me up too late! I have to go teach 4th graders tomorrow. Teach, semi baby sit, hold hands because their usual teacher isn't there. Actually, last year I had two very memorable experiences substituting. One was an art class. Two girls came during their free time to chat with me after I'd had them in class earlier in the day. I had complimented their work & how open they were expressing themselves. We sat & chatted about self expression. Very rewarding.
The second experience was with a girl who just broke down in class. She was a fourth grade student who had had too much pressure heaped on her & she caved in. We talked in the hall on & off for about half an hour. A sweet girl who just needed to vent & know someone would actually listen to her. I did tell the social worker so they could follow up.
larousse, no I didn't make anything pretty only tended to other pots that need attention. I have a long weekend ahead of me without my boys & I've had some images of naked ladies in my head I want to work on. If I do say so myself I make a good women's butt on my ladies. Can't wait to see what gets made of that remark.
I don't know Todd. I'm not sure I can get involved with a group of guys from Harvard. Too upper crust for me. I grew up in a fairly snooty town full of preppy ivy types & I try my best to keep them at a distance. I do like Boston even if it does belong to MA.
What specifically do you have against Boston or is it the state of MA?
Todd...are you adhd? I love to read but also enjoy books on tape while driving long distances...just wondered re: inability to focus on the books on tape and the below level comprehension comment...DS with adhd/asperger's and is brilliant but with sub reading comp scores...were you serious, if not I guess i'm completelly nieve. Is the focus issue just since dx or a long standing issue
Pio, How you hanging in there with less than a week eta?
BK, Thanks for your input...it's a pretty ugly existence eh?
Don't know where Stph20 is...due to the great advice by Nams or Larousse (can't remember which) she is probably investigating the features of the little bunny or is it the jack rabbit or flopsy????
KiwiJ. what happened to the rest of your name...you dropped the J...is this in concert with Stph20 name change? Perhaps I should look into a new name...something bold, original, catchy...
No new or exciting info. DD1 went to counseling tonight...wrote letter to WH and I will be placing it somewhere for him to read...she is scared...so am I ...we'll see what happens...prayers that he will be a mature dad and treat her with TLC since she put her heart on the line with him...
What specifically do you have against Boston or is it the state of MA?
Actually, I love Boston and the Commonwealth. It is just that the politics are so liberal there that the only moniker that applies is "The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts". I thouroughly enjoyed the two years that I lived there.
BTW Fraidy Cat, I was inbred and raised in Yeager Town, Middle America (AKA Klan Central) and one thing I don't tolerate is Rebels! (even though I used to date one)
Todd...are you adhd? I love to read but also enjoy books on tape while driving long distances...just wondered re: inability to focus on the books on tape and the below level comprehension comment...DS with adhd/asperger's and is brilliant but with sub reading comp scores...were you serious, if not I guess i'm completelly nieve. Is the focus issue just since dx or a long standing issue
2much,
Hello. You have a lot of insight. I have never been diagnosed ADHD but honestly, my guess would be that I am. It is an affliciton. Even remembering the earliest grades in elementary school, I never paid attention. Somehow, I stil made the grades so it was kinda weird. I tried listening to audio books in my car and it would be twenty minutes later before I realized had not being paying attention.
I thought Van Buren was where all that inbreeding went on. I don't live there except on every 5th weekend and a few other times a year. I'm not a rebel either. Have lived too many other places to feel at home with the red-necks. Bet I know where you rented a boat this past summer.
hey, hey, hey I am the local ADHD and ADD expert. I have serious experience with three of my kids and my H. And that was my first thought also. And your IQ is what bailed you out despite your inability to listen and pay attention.
Believe it or not, it's probably an evolutionary advantage. They just didn't bother to tell the educators that it was a good thing.
ADHD have no empathy abilities nor sexual imagination abilities, Todd has some empathy, except towards Pio and Francais that's it.
about the sexual imagination, maybe that's why he needs X rays?
Kiwi, are you bragging or something, do you forget that in this thread there are people, me included that go without it for months? Are you ADHD too? Ckicket !
Well, I'm pretty good at that ADD stuff, too. My D, my S, my mom (probably), and me. All of us. I bet my nephew is but his parents are in denial. So, what was it we were talking about?
You know what's funny though. For all the trouble I have paying attention and staying on task, I do really well on standardized tests. Just manage to get in the zone and go with it. Sort of like working a puzzle. HaHa!!! how much of this stuff can I get right?
I thought Van Buren was where all that inbreeding went on.
Mother,
If you are lurking, isn't that where Dirty Liar lives?
[old family joke - when I was very young, my mother had a friend (won't mention her name) but when I heard it, I got confused and I thought her friend was named Dirty Liar
There is a similar incident with Dusty Gorilla who literally scared the bejeezus out of me (I've never seen her BTW). I would hide when Dusty Gorilla came over!]
Okay everyone, I just happened to notice that regreted/tear/curly17 has changed her screen name to my wife's first initial and last name. Can I report this to a moderator?
This is a little over the top - even for such a depraved woman as that.
"tear" is now "wave" and "curly17" is now "skater".
No I don't think so. Gemela used to post to her on the "tear" thread. Besides, TRC (tear/regreted/curly) is a fat woman living in Mexico City who does internet porn as a hobby and collects OM's like refrigerator magnets. I don't think gemela knows how to use our web cam (not even sure if it still works).
TRC is just an evil, sick woman who is trying to blame all her problems on me - just like any WW still caught up in her fog. Her problems are always someone else's fault.
I can't see that she has posted anything new. I'll go look though.
No new posts as any of the three. All she has done is change her three (known) screen names and deleted most of her old posts. I have most of those deleted posts on my HD because I downloaded her threads long ago for self-protection.
kcox's last posts are on this thread and on her thread about the W wanting sex more than the H. She has not posted since she last posted here on TKO.
that thought did cross my mind once that regreted might actually be gemela in disguise. I think it was after she (they both) confessed to phone sex. But when I looked at the details of regreted's story, I knew a) they could not possibly be the same person or b) I definitely needed a divorce. Nobody should have to be regreted's husband until she gets serious help.
I tried to say that maybe that new poster was a legitime one.
I went back and looked at all the TRC threads and all the screen names are changed. Also, hidden within TKO are the membership numbers of TRC. You can change your screen name but you cannot change your membership number.
So as long as you know the membership number, you can see who it really is/was. This is exactly why I posted her membership numbers into TKO - for this very possibility.
Regreted, tear curly wanted her post deleted, completely, as she can't ask for them to be deleted directly, she uses you wife initials so you ask for them to be deleted. What do you think?
I can post the links to the threads if you don't believe me. I have them in my favorites so they are easy for me to find. In many cases you will see a "kcox" post that simply says "post deleted by regreted". Now how could regreted delete a kcox post if it weren't the same person? Can't. It is just a screen name change - same with "wave" and "skater". The paper trail is easy to follow.
Okay enough of that. This is my problem and I appreciate all your concern but let's all calm down a bit. Thanks for the support but let's be nice. If not, Cinderella taught me a great trick and I will make you two go sit in a chair together.
Not only do you have to sit there together....but neither of you can get up until the other one gets up. So, you have to decide to cooperate and get along before you can get up....and I don't care if you are hungry.
Yes I have. It was very effective at first. Unfortunately now they seem to actually enjoy it. They now fight just to get the priviledge to sit in the chair.
I can't win but at least I get a 5 minute rest. That's something.
Yeah, it usually is you BigK. Must be something about us down under - no tact. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I've had my foot in my mouth since yesterday when I talked to Luna. It's been very hard to get any work done and everyone at work has been wondering why I'm walking funny.
Okay here is the latest count. You might want to jot this down because Justuss will surely edit it even though 5 minutes with the search function can find all the info again:
I take it personally she is using my wife's name as her screen name. She has tried so much to hide her past and reinvent her history. I'm just making sure there is a permanent record for her husband to find if he chooses.
All anyone was trying to do was help her. She is very sick.
So I take a couple of days off for soccer practice and now I am totally confused. Last I remember Nicole had left groom at the alter for Jason but found Jason in bed with Tessa. Jason proposes to Nicole but she says no. Meantime Jason is on again/off again with Tessa. Two days off. Now Tessa and Frankie (Jason's best friend) are engaged, Nicole is sleeping with the hotel's head chef and Jason just got arrested for traffiking drugs. What on earth happened???
And I have soccer tonight too???? Surely Orchid has the low down on what is going on at the Grand Waimea!
Kiwi, are you bragging or something, do you forget that in this thread there are people, me included that go without it for months? Are you ADHD too? Ckicket !
Well shipment is here. I need a bigger house. I still have not begun to unpack all the scrapbook stuff but my initial reaction is that the planer/jointer would have taken up far less space at a tenth the cost. Oh well.... I have 4 lbs of parafin heating in the dipping bath. I am so excited! I also got the bubbling sauna heated foot massager bath. Forgot all about that. I may have to skip soccer tonight (I could catch up on North Shore too!).
The house is a mess. The maid looked at me and said "too much stuff". Then she went and locked herself in her room.
So far no serious damage except for the largest of gemela's three palomas. I won't even bother to show it to all the king's horses and men. I binned it.
Even though I raised the DD's beds, the underbed chests are still too tall so now I have to make spacers. (It's an excuse to use power tools!)
DD1 got a new set of golf clubs, shoes and glove so we have to go to the range tomorrow. She also has softball bat, glove and batting glove so we have to practice that tomorrow and she also got bicycle riding gloves. Problem is, of the latter, I can't tell which is which.
Well I am still going through all my hardware. I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'm glad it is the weekend. I might have had to call in sick tomorrow otherwise.
Sorry but for the record I don't understand the Brasilian bikini wax. There is nothing interesting about that. Why do women do that to themselves? Do they think it is sexy somehow?
BTW thanks KiwiJ and ToddAC for slapping my wrist earlier. I needed it.
This regreted/tear/whoever cannot hurt me in anyway because there is nothing for me to hide. I have never read through all gemela posted but don't need to either. It is still all there in the forum database and anyone can see it. I have always had gemela's password because I signed her up and it is the only password she seems to remember. I could have deleted her posts or even her entire thread at any time but I never felt any need or desire.
I did complain by email. Let's see if there really is any Justuss in the world.
If you are talking to me, yes and no. Nothing has really changed but I have started wearing compression pants at night and now I can sleep with no problem. Ever since the really big one on the inner thigh popped, the walking pain is completely gone.
I have now broken out in two spots on the gluteal region and they are large, very painful and exactly on a pressure point. I find it difficult to sit still for that.
And he is melting some paraffin....I don't know if it's for the lessions, the bikini wax, the scrapbook, the golf clubs or to torture the maid.
Cinderella,
What on earth do we need to do for you? Publish a Cliff's Notes version of the thread para que te mantengas actualizada?
There is nothing wrong with "popping lesions". It is wonderful when they pop. it's like throwing up when you're sick - makes you feel great for a little while.
The wax is for my feet after I exfoliate. It is the weekend and I am going to exfoliate hard and I am going to exfoliate deep.
I'm also going to trim the hedges and put the corkscrew shape back into the trees in the entrance for gemela's return. Oh, and fold the electric blanket over onto my side.
My mother sent me some Easter seals in the DHL package to give to the DDs. I'm hesitant. Is it a sin to let the DDs play with the Easter seals if I haven't contributed any money to them? I mean, it was unsolicited mail and all. What do I do? Are the seals at Easter Island endangered? What about the other seals in the world? Why do we only care about the Easter seals?
Hey Luna - leave me out of this. You're on your own....
CHICKEN!
(BigK....uhmmmm.....any additional explanation needed on the 'meaning' of this expression?.... just remembered you're from THAT British colony...and it might not work there!)
Vu que je suis là, toute seule, je peux enfin écrire en français... je suis courageuse, n'est-ce pas?
...je crois que Todd est en train de dormir...donc...ça ne devrait pas trop le déranger...
Voyons...quoi de neuf? Je pourrais toujours chercher des textes de chansons françaises? ....de toute évidence...il s'agit d'un 'blockage' de la page blanche.... je vais prendre un bon bain et me préparer pour aller travailler...et je reviendrai...
yes you are courageous. pardon me while I go puke.
Sorry, Pio.... maybe to help protect the 'weaknesses' of this thread....you need to figure out a way to censure f***** words... if you do so, be sure to warn Larousse... she will need to change her name....
yes she blew us off because her H was coming around for dinner. .............
Hey BigK,
FWIW, I think you should edit that last bit. Keep in mind that when STPH20 reads that, it might be taken the wrong way. I had a good laugh. Now rethink it. JMO.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that stph20 didn't follow your advice. It might be difficult to come back with fear of ridicule. WH staying all night. What are the odds? Not very good. You did a great job giving her great advice. Now give her a soft place to land in case she needs it.
Good morning all. It seems there have been some significant developments over my night. A huge shipment, complete with nuts and bolts, aliases being discovered, Aussie bashing, and some one is speaking in gibberish. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> What's nice about this thread is there is always someone awake. Oh and last but not lease development of gluteal leisons. Sorry Pio. Maybe the antibodies will kick in soon.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that stph20 didn't follow your advice. It might be difficult to come back with fear of ridicule. WH staying all night. What are the odds? Not very good. You did a great job giving her great advice. Now give her a soft place to land in case she needs it.
have a good day Luna. I don't know if it's possible to keep the guys in line. So far it doesn't look like anyone else is having success. Far be it from me to show you veterans up.
Well yes. In fact what I started to add was something to the effect of ..."like you have continually pounded into me". But your point is taken and it is my sound intention. I have to admit though that this may take a lot of courage on my part and I am not kidding. I have so little invested any more. You are asking me to be a nice person which I have clearly demonstrated time and time again that I am not.
I have soccer tonight. Two games. Coach one and ref second. I do have my large tripod now (came in shipment) [I am a collecter of small and very expensive travel tripods - the ones that fit easily into motorcycle saddle bags]. So I plan to video (have videoed actually) the DDs tonight and then I will begin the tedious process of ripping, editing, squeezing and uploading for your viewing pleasure.
Well considering that the women are now using tools for SF, from your POV, I don't guess there is much difference. I, on the other hand, fullintend to miter something this weekend just because I now can.
Vu que je suis là, toute seule, je peux enfin écrire en français... je suis courageuse, n'est-ce pas?
...je crois que Todd est en train de dormir...donc...ça ne devrait pas trop le déranger...
Voyons...quoi de neuf? Je pourrais toujours chercher des textes de chansons françaises? ....de toute évidence...il s'agit d'un 'blockage' de la page blanche.... je vais prendre un bon bain et me préparer pour aller travailler...et je reviendrai...
Well considering that the women are now using tools for SF, from your POV, I don't guess there is much difference. I, on the other hand, fullintend to miter something this weekend just because I now can.
I would guess that womens favorite tool is the Plumb BOB.
why do you allow the 3 little stars to annoy you? Are you seriously aggravated by this or is it just an outlet for annoyance? If it really aggravates you I hate to think of what other tiny things get under your skin. I am thinking in terms of unmated socks, unfolded underwear, undocumented used checks, butter left out on the table, toothpaste smeared on the sink, mirrors readjusted on your car, doors not locked etc...am I striking a nerve????
If so I think you may be type AAA, yep not just the normal anal, perfection seeking type A but the triple rated version!!! I should have been tipped off by the manicures way back and the need to fix things as soon as they break, or maybe the need to improve everyday products....hhhhmmmmmm
Ok, I'm done bust'n your bubble...thought I was going somewhere else with that didn't you?
The clock is ticking...have you planned an outstanding action packed w/e with the DDs as your grand finale of this chapter?
Would you mind if any of you has an apple, where or how could I get Microsoft Word for Apple without paying or without paying as much as brand new in a store?
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that stph20 didn't follow your advice. It might be difficult to come back with fear of ridicule. WH staying all night. What are the odds? Not very good. You did a great job giving her great advice. Now give her a soft place to land in case she needs it.
Thanks Pio. You're sweet.
WH misses me!!
BTW, today is Wednesday morning, 9:58 for me. Tonight is our dinner night. He spent the night here last night due to no AC at his mom's.
Vu que je suis là, toute seule, je peux enfin écrire en français... je suis courageuse, n'est-ce pas?
...je crois que Todd est en train de dormir...donc...ça ne devrait pas trop le déranger...
Voyons...quoi de neuf? Je pourrais toujours chercher des textes de chansons françaises? ....de toute évidence...il s'agit d'un 'blockage' de la page blanche.... je vais prendre un bon bain et me préparer pour aller travailler...et je reviendrai...
And no, not from FGF.
Did I mention that they broke up? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Did I mention that they are already back together? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Well, Luna, I guess we could award you the Nobel Prize for Medicine. And no I don't do stars, I can't even figure out how to do quotes yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Nothing else is going to cure Pio, so he'll just have to call out those antibodies. Too bad we can't find some anti-tumor antibodies for Todd. Is that a possibility?? He could play like the tumor cells are the french and summon up his defenses. They say it works for some. The power of positive thinking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
you are totally missing the point. 3 stars don't bother me. Only one star in particular bothers me. It happens to be the third on. The other two were just fine. I hate the third star like I hate two legs on an insect. I don't know why I hate two legs on an insect but I do. I like insects themselves just fine. But if you take an insect with six legs (nothing wrong so far) and add two legs to it, you get an arachnid and I absolutely detest arachids. So, as far as I can tell, it is the two legs. This is the way I hate the third star.
Well DD1 scored two goals and her team won 3-0. DD2 have three saves and her team won 1-0. I hope someone got the video. I'll rip and burn tomorrow and see what I get.
Tomorrow we try out the new softball bats and gloves and maybe the new golf clubs.
...you are listening to what he SAYS. ...and a WS will say what you want to hear...to get what he wants...
Please look at what he is DOING...and are you OK with that?
BTW....many of us fall off the horse.... nothing else to do but get back on it!
He did tell me that he misses me and he thinks about me all the time, but he wasn't after anything. And the reason I believed him when he did say it is because of his actions the past couple of days. He called me Sunday, for no apparent reason, and not even a good excuse, he asked me to lunch on Monday, flirted and teased the whole time we were together and he followed me around like a puppy dog here last night, just to be in the same room as me and talk to me.
Are those good actions??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Now I'm scared he didn't mean it. But he doesn't have anything to gain by saying it, since he's the one wanting divorce...I don't know.
BigK has his work cut out for him later, between me and the kangaroos!! I hope he's prepared himself!
you are totally missing the point. 3 stars don't bother me. Only one star in particular bothers me
Call me crazy...many others have...but...perhaps the stars are subconscious symbols of marriage partners and the real aversion to the 3rd star is that it throws off, invades and imbalances the pair? Would 4 stars be better?????
Is he not also seeing OW? I believe that would also be considered an ACTION ...and is this OK with you?
Personally, I chose to be in PLAN B because I did not want to be part of triangle... if it was up to WS...he was perfectly happy to have two women cater to his needs!
First hand experience...don't know what to expect...I drew some lines in the sand today and am trying to defend them...we'll see what the next few days bring...at least I am being honest with myself and H, regardless of how it makes him feel/act...I am tired of holding back out of fear...let the cards fall where they may...I am ready
Let's just cut to the chase: did you or did you not engage in SF with WH?
What part of "don't listen to his words but his actions" do you not understand? You ask for advice and have been given excellent advice and you chose to ignore it. At some point, you must quiz yourself as to why you are asking for advice. Is it that you hope to hear what you hope to hear? If so, you are wasting time and energy.
Is he not also seeing OW? I believe that would also be considered an ACTION ...and is this OK with you?
Personally, I chose to be in PLAN B because I did not want to be part of triangle... if it was up to WS...he was perfectly happy to have two women cater to his needs!
...see what I mean?
Yeah, I kinda see what you mean...I hadn't looked at it that way before. I did find out last night, that they are without a doubt still seeing each other...I felt like I had been hit by a freight train when it stared me in the face the way it did.
I want to woe him back to me somehow, and I thought I was doing that by Plan A and I thought it was starting to work. I had hoped he would have told me last night that he wanted to work things out, but I didn't expect him too. But, I was a little disappointed when he didn't.
First hand experience...don't know what to expect...I drew some lines in the sand today and am trying to defend them...we'll see what the next few days bring...at least I am being honest with myself and H, regardless of how it makes him feel/act...I am tired of holding back out of fear...let the cards fall where they may...I am ready
Good for you 2much. If you stick to your guns, a change will occur. Don't know which change but it should end the status quo.
Let's just cut to the chase: did you or did you not engage in SF with WH?
What part of "don't listen to his words but his actions" do you not understand? You ask for advice and have been given excellent advice and you chose to ignore it. At some point, you must quiz yourself as to why you are asking for advice. Is it that you hope to hear what you hope to hear? If so, you are wasting time and energy.
No, I did not have SF with WH. We just flirted...that was the extent of it and I felt bad for even doing that.
I don't think I'm ignoring anyone's advice, but I want to fully understand what I'm doing and why...I didn't think that was too much to ask. I have done everything everyone has told me, albeit, maybe not when I should have, but I have done it and will continue to do so. I just have a need to understand why and what it's going to do and my mind doesn't always wrap around the ways of a WS; because I'm not one.
He did tell me that he misses me and he thinks about me all the time, but he wasn't after anything.
The above quote stph, depicts where you listened to WH. He wasn't after anything? You bet your bippy he was after something. What? Who knows? It could have been to make sure you were receptive to him or to alleviate his guilt, assuming he has any. When you print on these pages what WH says to you, it is an unmistakeable admission that you are listening to his words. Let his words be like water off a duck's back. He is as foggy as the rear window of a fastback car on a dewy morn. His words are meaningless. Don't try to assign meaning or even make sense of his words.
perhaps the stars are subconscious symbols of marriage partners and the real aversion to the 3rd star is that it throws off, invades and imbalances the pair?
Yes, that is where I always loose it...in business I can be as cold, hard, calculating and completely and totally hold someone accountable and responsible with a series of consequences...it is amazing to me that I am so much of a wimp when it comes to my personal life
I am already hearing the manipulative babble to try and get me off track but I need to find my business self and apply it here at home...so what if he gets po'd he spends half the time bickering over nothing just to make sure we stay on shakey ground in the hopes I'll be too scared to ask questions or rock the boat...I know all the tactics and can identify them...I just need to respond consistently and appropriately when they rear their ugly heads
He has threatened to move out...I have neither encouraged or discouraged this option...it is all babble
I may need lots of coaching and hugs over the next few days but am sure you can all throw out some for a fellow TKO'r...feel free to add in 2x4's and insults...I wouldn't know how to act without them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I know all the tactics and can identify them...I just need to respond consistently and appropriately when they rear their ugly heads
Orchid isn't around....but I bet she would suggest 'practicing' out loud, in front of the mirror, what some of your replies NEED to be!
Good luck...and, yes, we will be here for you...
2much... Do you also have your own thread? If not, you might want to start one....giving it a specific title based on the kind of help you will need...and reach a wider range on the Board
The forth graders were loud, surprise, & there were a couple of a.s kissers in the group, surprise again, but they drew me pictures & one told me I was the best. I only made one boy cry though. I didn't give him a sticker for being particularly well behaved today. That's because he wasn't. Oh well, day's over.
So stph has shown up & managed to stay away from SF with her WH. Good job on that front.
Good for you 2much in instituting boundries with consequences when WH tries to overstep. Of course you'll keep us posted.
I thought you might have run off to the early bird special.
I was given about 8 bags of chips today from a friend whose H owns a grocery store. My boys practically wet themselves with delight when they saw me walk in with them. Now we all feel sick from junk. Not that Mexican food is junk of course, happens to be one of my favorites, but the chips...
I think I'm too tired for a marathon TKO session like last night. Some of you guys were here to the wee hours. I need my sleep. That's another benefit of being down the road from all the D crap, I sleep better.
I have a question for any medical professionals (ToddAC clears throat, ahem) in this thread. Periodically when reading a post, a line or two will appear as red font. Any clue what could be causing this?
No. Is it really red or just appears to be red to you?? If it's just your perception, it's probably another one of those weird side effects. Some people have auras before migraines where they look down and see purple grass as opposed to green and the like, and you have to charge it off to the brain going a bit hay-wire.
So I take a couple of days off for soccer practice and now I am totally confused. Last I remember Nicole had left groom at the alter for Jason but found Jason in bed with Tessa. Jason proposes to Nicole but she says no. Meantime Jason is on again/off again with Tessa. Two days off. Now Tessa and Frankie (Jason's best friend) are engaged, Nicole is sleeping with the hotel's head chef and Jason just got arrested for traffiking drugs. What on earth happened???
And I have soccer tonight too???? Surely Orchid has the low down on what is going on at the Grand Waimea!
U must be jokin' right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I don't even watch that stuff. Smacks of a soap opera. The only reason I go to the North Shore is for swimming with the turtles, snorkelin' and maybe some fishin'. Oh yea....and the Shave Ice in Haleiwa. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Take a nap so I can stay up for a TKO marathon? Sounds tempting except for the no life away from the computer part of that. Not to imply my TKO friends aren't a valuable part of my life but my eyes get blurry & my butt hurts.
Lol, nams, my neck and upper shoulders were killing me last night. Most of the time I can't sleep anyway, so I may as well be doing something entertaining.
Tv surely doesn't entertain me most of the time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Maybe Todd you would benefit from time away from the computer & getting a good nights sleep. We would miss you for the night of course but more if you didn't take care of yourself.
Todd, I know it's hard to know what to get concerned about and what to blow off. If you are worried about it, call the doc. Better to be safe than sorry. That's one thing he's getting paid for.
FC, I've already dumped TV in favor of this thread. This morning I had to run through my house getting ready for work because I wanted to catch up so I wouldn't have so much reading when I came home.
Guess I can't fuss at my boys for being addicted to their video games.
Todd, can you call on your sons to help you out with this? Find the list, maybe call the Dr's service to have them call you if you're concerned. They aren't like lawyers who charge when you even think of calling.
No, I did not have SF with WH. We just flirted...that was the extent of it and I felt bad for even doing that.
Stef - You did great. This is exactly what you should be doing.
I'll be back later - I have to go out today. It's 9AM here in Aussie.
I'm proud of you Stef. Everything I have read up to this point sounds good to me. What Luna said about 2 women meeting his needs is correct. This is one of the reasons I banned you from giving him SF. Sounds like he is panting after you which is exactly what you want.
nams, yes my sons will be happy to help. I just haven't asked them at this point. They stay busy in their jobs and I hate to bug them. I will call the doc tomorrow.
As for why I couldn't sleep, I don't really know. I had a side effect last night that was disconcerting and that surely had something to do with it.
Pio - if Stef got offended by my little joke, she won't have the stones for recovery. I think she's doing great. She does to ignore what WH says but I see a change in her as well. Yay Stef.
You know Todd you wouldn't be "bugging" your sons. But I know how you feel.
My father (don't get me wrong I'm not linking you with my dad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) would never ask me for anything. When he calls me & I'm not home he'll always leave a message saying don't call back, I know you're busy with the boys etc. After all he's done for me is wish there was something I could do for him.
I know nams. But I also know how busy they are in their careers and I just hate to burden them. They don't look at it that way, but I do. They would be angry if they knew I didn't call them if maybe I should have.
The nicest time of the year are Spring and Fall. Atlanta sits on a plateau 1,000 ft above sea level at the base of the Blue Ridge mountains and has long springs and falls. So, current fall weather is typically warm days and cool nights with low humidity. Summers are hot and muggy but not like the coastal areas like New Orleans. Winters are comparatively mild but much too cold for me. It can get surprisingly cold here but it doesn't persist.
Fall is my favorite season. It's fabulous here in CT. The key being no humidity. Gawd I hate humidity! Winters can be pretty, you know that from living in Boston, but the shoveling is the worst. Yeah, it's too cold here & it persists.
My sister lives in Beuford (sp) NC & apparently loves it, so I hear from my father. I lived in NC for few months in '84 in April, May & June. t was so humid I'd fall asleep any time I was outside for more than 10 min.
gotta go pick up son from chorus & get some milk. These boys can go through some milk! Middle one can't live without it.
I'm signing off & will fight the impulse to come back to the computer when I get home. I want a good & full night of sleep. I want to read some John Irving then drift off & not wake up unitl morning. Won't happen but that's what I want.
So WH threatens to move out. Isn't that what should really happen anyway? I know you want to cohabitate till spring for financial reasons but, in terms of the M (and your sanity), next time he threatens to move out say "don't you DARE!". Works great on the kids. I hope he does move. You really need Plan B and you can't do it with him in the house.
No, I did not have SF with WH. We just flirted...that was the extent of it and I felt bad for even doing that.
Stef - You did great. This is exactly what you should be doing.
I'll be back later - I have to go out today. It's 9AM here in Aussie.
I'm proud of you Stef. Everything I have read up to this point sounds good to me. What Luna said about 2 women meeting his needs is correct. This is one of the reasons I banned you from giving him SF. Sounds like he is panting after you which is exactly what you want.
Excellent.
(((Stef)))
Thank you so much for your support BigK. I was feeling pretty bad about myself earlier today, due to flirting last night and comments made here. I know I'm not quite getting it, but I will.
You people need to understand that you have ALL been dealing with these issues a he!! of a lot longer than I have, so you've had time to learn everything forward and backward as well as get used to all this. I'm not there yet, but I will be. It's all still brand new to me, and surreal. I'm trying and doing the best I can. I will make many mistakes, I'm sure, before this is over, but bear with me.
I appreciate everyone's input and advice, and if it appears that I'm not following it, I'm sorry for that, but I am. I have followed everyone's advice so far, on this thread as well as my own thread. I just don't always understand it and I'm trying to learn why you want me to do whatever it is.
The concept of color blindness has always fascinated me ever since I saw a movie years ago about some kid who was color blind and ended up meeting Gina Lola Something. Can't remember much else about it. But, for example, if you see the color blue all your life but your mind perceives it as what I think is red, you have been told all your life that red is blue. So if someone tells you to paint something blue, you would go pick out "red" paint and paint the thing correctly blue. It seems like simple translation. So I don't understand how color blindness can ever even be diagnosed.
I am also fascinated about the famouse Land experiments where he proved how it was possible that we can see black on a TV screen which theoretically shouldn't be possible. I still don't completely understand that bit. If a TV screen is dark green when it is off, how can it be black when it is on? You can't take color away. So how does the TV do it?
I also happen to be color blind. I see colors and have no idea what I am missing. Apparently, I see some shades of red and green as gray. Tests I have done with WW and others.
So Todd, how do you know what you were seeing was red in the fonts?? Only certain shades of red and green you have trouble with??
I don't know how it is now, but it used to be that there was an image in red dots in a field of green dots and if you didn't discern the image then the diagnosis was made of color blindness.
And what was for dinner??
And here's another point. Ask your boys for help. They would be horrified if you needed them and didn't ask. And you wouldn't have taken care of them that way when they were young and needed help if ill, they certainly wouldn't want you to need anything now.
No, the font is not red. A line or two or even a phrase will suddenly appear as red and then revert back to black.
I would f/u with your doc...what was the episode that preceded this? Refresh my memory of where the tumor is and what type...glio? Is it parietal or temporal? Could be a number of things going on or could be related to lack of sleep on top of some side effects.
I had a side effect last night that was disconcerting and that surely had something to do with it.
This is what I was referring to when I asked what preceeded it.
The something was lack of sleep, not the red font. I don't think that particular side effect had any effect, but maybe it did. Nonetheless, I will call my doc tomorrow.
I have heard that cable tie addiction is harder to break than heroin addiction.
You're on your own buddy. Until you can admit you are a cable tie addict there's nothing we can do for you. Acknowledging and owning it is the first step.
After careful inventory, I have discovered that I bought only black cables ties nad white cable ties. At first that seemed reasonable because they are so practical. Then it occurred to me that it is odd that I didn't buy any grey cable ties. So my new cable ties are black and white with no grey. I was wondering if there might not be a hidden meaning in that too? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I did exfoliate the feet and hot wax them last night. I discovered that hot wax, among other things, is very appropriately named. After I regained consciousness, I decided to wax my hands as well. At first I though it was a good idea and I went on to sleep. But this morning I'm not so sure. It is really difficult to do things with all my fingers stuck together. I'm not sure hand waxing is a really good idea. I'll be glad when this stuff wears off!
Well, Good Morning Big K. I see you are still around. I am up about 2 hours too early.
You have a nice take on Stef's sitch it seems. I am sure it will be helpful to her.
After reading the posts and getting caught up, I have decided that the people on TKO could be like the Navajo code talkers. There is so much based on history that it would be difficult for newbies to step in and automatically understand a lot of the allusions.
Edited because I am not awake enough to be lucid just yet.
Of course it's fun otherwise I wouldn't be here. After 2 years of trying and not understanding what my motives were and finally finding this site, I feel like I have new hope for my M. It's a relief to find so much insight. And such clever people also. Pio routinely cracks me up.
You have a good point. I am stubborn and had a lot of help from Om and a few other sources, but this philosophy and unique look at problems in marriages seems to be the most realistic one I have seen. I was one of the lucky ones. I didn't completely destroy every thing I had.
So that sounds like you were the OW? is that correct? I can't imagine getting jack from my wife's OM help wise? Are you ready to share a bit of your situation?
Yes I was the OW. I am married for 37 years now and never entertained the idea of anyone besides my H. I fell in love with a very close friend (widower) who was very emotionally needy and I was too apparently. But didn't realize it. He had already been down the disasterous road of infidelity and he did every thing in his power to see that we didn't end up in a PA and tried at just about every turn to discourage me. But since his sitch in life was so bad he couldn't really help but take my emotional support. We became very close in all respects. Finally, he called a halt to it after finding a new lady and fell in love with her and moved on. I was addicted at this point and have spent the better part of the last two years trying to figure out just what in the world was wrong with me. Losing the friendship and emotional support aspect of the R was devastating to me. I have never told my H and that's one reason that I didn't want to post on here. I will carry this secret to my grave, but in the meanwhile, I am trying to gently illuminate my problems to him without revealing all. He is responding and things are getting much better. I know that it's a far cry from the proper way to handle all this, but it's my choice.
Maybe you were in the fog Pio?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Or they are a bonus freebie for buying all the nuts and bolts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
No Big K, I am not in NC. It's a small town and we share a common interest and I have to see him and his new lady at least once a week and we are trying to reestablish an appropriate friendship. But it has been excruiciating for me. To go completely NC would have meant I would have been a shut in and that's no exageration.
WOW you still have a lot of years left to carry this secret before your grave. WOW. I hope you can get some peace. A very non-MB course of action you have selected but I'm not going to lecture you or try to change your mind. I hope we can give you the support you need.
I am beginning to get peace and to regain my former reasonable mind-set. Just the reasons for my A have become apparent to me from reading on this board and I can deal with most anything I can understand. If I asked why once, I must have asked a million times. I thought I had it all and had no need for an EA and it was truly a mystery to me why the OM had become so important to me.
You asked what my agenda was and I really have none other than to continue to get better and if there is some way I can prevent one other soul from undergoing the pain that I have then I am willing to talk until I am blue in the face.
I appreciate your non judgmental attitude towards me.
I will have no children other than my own to make cry today.
I have let a million little chores pile up that MUST get done. They are waking me at night, no more procrastination!
Todd, I'm happy to hear you're calling your Dr. I'll talk with Sandi today to see if she experienced any of the visual side effects you have. I hope you slept well.
Pio, obviously I've missed the discussion of the cable tie "issue" you seem to have. Do you have all the cords in your house cable tied together & the ties are color coated to match the cords?
Nams, I have been on this ride ( withdrawal) for 2 years and all toll for 4 years. It's just beginning to slow down. Things are finally turning a corner for me. I finally have hope that I will be "normal" again some day soon.
I'm in a cable tie crisis and all you want to do is talk about infidelity. Fine. If that's the way you want it, I'm going to the hardware store. And I might happen down the cable tie aisle. We'll see what happens.
FC,
You said you can see now why you had the A. Is it anything specific or just a gradual breakdown of boundaries? If it is specific, I'm not asking what that is, I'm just wondering why you are so sure you know why it happened. Almost a clinical diagnosis.
Hi Pio, there were many things wrong with me and also in my marriage. But because of my stubborness and my H's we never realized that things were not right. We were busy raising 3 kids and he fighting against injustices in his career and I guess we just lost one another in all the chaos. I have poor self-esteem and that was a huge contributing factor and also I have abandonment issues that I had never worked through. Never had even admitted that I had them. I have had some very good counseling from people on line ( lay people) and they helped me do all this without my having to expose myself or even seek counseling. I am a pretty intuitive person, but was truly naive about my own motivations. Once illuminated, I could readily see them.
Before all this, I didn't even know what an EA was. Had absolutely no idea something like that existed. I thought all A's ended up in a bed. Wrong. Big mistake. I could have recovered from an inappropriate PA more readily than I could have this close intimate association with someone.
Pio, you would love my H. He has every tool known to man and probably a thousand different cable ties in every color known to man and every size too. Very handy man, has saved us thousands with his mechanical ability. We even have a car lift in his garage.
FC, I'm glad you're feeling better & gaining some understanding.
So many people come here, the infidelity site in general, & don't own up to the fact they made the choice to cheat & it's theirs to own. You see a lot of weasle talk, that's when the "MB ride" get rough. That & not telling the spouse about the affair. Two biggies. That's what I was referring to when I said hold on you're in for a ride.
Are there any other MBers in SA? If so, PLEASE stage an intervention for Pio. Do it at the hardware store, not in front of his precious, sweet daughters. Do it right in the cable isle. Bring restraints, just make sure they aren't cable ties I think he'd like that far too much.
Yes, nams, I knew that if I told that I hadn't disclosed all to my h that I would probably take a severe bashing. That's one reason that I lurked for so long before posting. I think I can take that now without losing it and so here I am.
I have two problems completely unrelated to M, D or infidelity. Maybe y'all can help shed some light.
My dog has become frightened of something in the main living part of our house. She seeks out far corners, hides under the beds, won't sleep in her favorite spots. I have to drag her out to go to do her thing & her eating is sporatic. This has been going on for two days. Any ideas?
Second problem is my fridge. It beeps every couple of minutes. I actually wondered if this may be bothering the dog because it is a high pitched sound. The fridge is working fine. It is about 8 to 10 years old & has done this before & stopped on its own. I wonder if it's some kind of alarm & if so for what.
Noms, I don't know. I have never had a fridge that beeps. Mine always die unannounced. That would be a job for my handy H to trace the cause of that. I am the mechanically challenged one in this household.
And as for the dog, no telling. Call that pet psychic lady. LOL
Sorry, but I have no great insight into these things.
My story is a bit different from most here who have dealt with in fidelity. I can only tell you how I see how lack of fessing up affected me. You are in a far different place than I am or was so it may not be relevant but there may be something in it for you.
Just got a call from school a forgotten binder has to be rushed over but I'll be back.
We are misfits. That's already been covered. All we ask is that you be honest with your H. That is not to say that you have to tell him about your EA. But if you continue your EA or rekindle your EA and don't tell H, you will be in for a severe bashing like you can't imagine. You sound committed to your H and your M. You sound like your A is over and you have suffered the worst of withdrawal. Okay.
Well I have very few boxes left. The garage is a mess but I did get an agreement with the DDs to sell their jeep. DD1's only requirement is that we sell it to a four year old. She estimates that is the ideal age for the jeep. That will free up a lot of space. I have been working all morning on a plan to mount a spare tire on the gold cart. All was going great until I realized that the spare would only have about 1" of ground clearance. Now I am thinking of removing the front center headlight and seeing if there is space there. Gotta go take some measurements.
I have a fridge that has a battery in it to sound an alarm if the temperature rises above normal. When the battery is getting low, the fridge beeps to tell me that too. Mine has a 9V battery at the front bottom on one side.
About the house, I don't know. I lived in a haunted house in Mexico. I didn't believe in haunted houses until I lived in one. I should have gemela tell you about it. We had some really strange things happen. Before I got married to gemela, I used to go into the house really quickly and lock myself in my room. Gemela had far worse problems than I did with the house.
No, there is no chance of a rekindling of the EA or even a continuance. And there is also no chance that my H will ever be told of it. Not because I am afraid of the consequences, but because i cannot hurt him in that manner. He's had a rough last 10 years professionally and I am not about to pile on with more garbage for him to deal with when it mostly resulted from being my problems anyway. He's been a very good H by most standards and the problems mostly were of my doing. I did not want to fall out of love with him. But for a number of reasons I did. I am now beginning to rekindle that love and that's where I belong now and have always belonged. I have know him for a total of 46 years and that's a pretty strong tie to someone to be able to break. I guess you could say, I took a short detour but now am back on the proper road.
FC, maybe I've been on MB too long for my own good, at least one year before my registration date. Your story sounds too familiar to the story of a member who had several nicks. The only other poster that comes to my mind in the main thread of that poster is Owl. The poster with the several nicks had two EA's or one EA and one PA. The last one sounds exactly as yours with a man who finally had a real relationship and left the affair.
I hope you are not her, sadly your personality comes too close, if you are not I beg your pardon sincerely.
What I can't understand is why OW and former OW find it suitable to post on a thread where two men are obviously in pain for the affair of their WW's. Todd and Pio. I can't imagine the pain and triggers they may feel everytime that an OW and or a former OW comes and justify her affair or affairs and the reasons for not telling the true.
Believe me when I tell you that I have nothing against you but I candide believe in MB guidelines and I agree with the definitions of abuse of Dr. Harley, one of which is lies. To lie or to hide the true from a spouse is abusive and controlling and I would add it's narcisist because the person that lies is thinking that knows better than her BS.
I wish I could welcome your story with a lighter attitude but I can't. It sadest me to no end the triggers Pio may get and I hope he doesn't and I hope he remembers he controls the effect that other stories have on his own.
And so the bashing begins. I am not Owl have had no other EA, PA and you have my pardon.
I know Pio and Todd are hurting and my heart bleeds for them. I know what to hurt is like, Hurt is hurt, I understand their hurt and that of others and I am not justifying my EA, merely explaining it. I don't want anyone to hurt like I have for ANY REASON. If it's a problem for them they can tell me to hush up and go away. Or has been suggested in the past they can block my posts. I guess the reason I came here is that I have enormous sympathy for the Betrayed Spouses and I almost relate to their pain better than I do my own. As I felt somewhat betrayed also. I was in a very odd situation and felt the feelings of a MOW, Betrayed Wife, someone whose emotional needs were not being met, not because my H was faulty, but because they were so difficult to understand. I can look at these situations and see them from almost all sides.
If you knew my specific situation, larousse, I think you would understand why I chose not to heap more distress on my H. I am sorry if my story offends you.
I totally agree that the proper way to handle an A and recovery from it is to go totally NC and also to expose to the spouse. However I cannot do this and I am making the best effort I can in light of my specific situation. Believe me, it doesn't make my recovery any easier to have to not adhere to these principles.
You may try to put 'rags' with the dog oddor on its favorite spots. Also it could be that he's getting kicked or disturbed by someone, I hope not your sons, while you are not there.
Alo Todd,
The red letters were on this site or it happens when you see other sites? Todd I'm really worried about you, you caused the false alarms just to be restrained in handcuffs and spend the night like that, now you try to initiate Pio on the clamps colection, tsk, tsk.
larousse, I don't know anything about that thread and I can assure you that I am not anything but what I say I am. And the last thing I wish to do is make anyone here feel any worse than they already do. I have been to ****** and back with my simple situation which pales in comparison to most of those here so I can only imagine how awful it is for them to contend with their day to day lives.
Frankly, I so admire Pio and Todd. They are remarkable men. I have nothing but the highest respect for them.
FC, you don't offend me at all. It's a free world, internet, I have not blocked anyone, ever. I don't think I bash you or that was not my intention, my bashing topic is usually Spain and Mexicans, me included.
I know Pio and Todd are almost mature grown up men and can take care of themselves but I have the impression Pio was a little disturbed in a retarded effect way, (retarded effect, eh?) by TRC post.
Well speaking for myself, I have nothing against WW's. Heck - I'm married to one!
Actually I like hearing things from the "other side". It helps me see the humanity in gemela rather than the evil which I sometimes suspect.
I have no problem with FC sharing her story. Keep in mind that she was asked - she didn't offer it.
Anyway thanks larousse for standing up for us. I have never read Owl's threads but I understand they are highly recommended reading.
Besides, I know something you don't. Anyone who has to spend that much time in FSA already has a lot of issues. Just the nature of the place.
I was asking myself if I was being somewhat hypocrtical considering the recent TDC incident. I guess the difference is that FC seems to be sincerely trying to R against very terrible odds. In the TRC case, she/they refused to stop the A but still wanted the M.
I bash Mexicans because I know them, ask me about me !
Spain is a visceral reaction to which I have no explanation.
TRC are the initials of a poster whose id names were Tear, Regreted, Curly17 and now are Wave, Skater and other which I don't know if was ereased or not.
Now, listen here Pio. There are a lot worse places on Earth than FSA. Trust me on this one, I personally have lived in a couple of them. Thanks to Uncle Sam.
And Pio, thanks for your acceptance. That is part of the reason that I am here and that's to elucidate the often convoluted strange world that the WW live in. We aren't all evil. Some of us are merely naive and stupid.
I'm not sure what that means. I have to accept that people make mistakes. You seem to have admitted yours and are working to do better. My problem with my WW is not that she had an A (well, okay it is a bit if a bummer) but rather that she had an A and refuses to accept that it was a mistake. She will only say that it was an error. Kind of like missing the answer by 1 on a math final. Intention was good but there was a slight error. Besides, when she says it was an error, she never says whether the error was the A or getting caught.
If gemela had come to me and said it was wrong and she was sorry and really wanted our M, we would probably be okay now. She still refuses to give up the A AFAIK so I am not too inclined to be very accepting about it. But that's just me. Call me crazy.
Anyway, I have to get back to the golf cart. I have the front bumper off and need to make some 6" bolts (more or less). I don't really have the entire plan yet. It's coming.
I just meant thanks for not thinking that I was someone else or like someone else without really knowing me. It's very easy to stereotype people but nice to see that you are open minded about this.
I do not relate at all to your wife nor to Todd's. They both seem to have entered a world that I have no idea about.
What does AFAIK mean? have seen it a bunch but can't figure it out.
And for the record, those 2 girls of yours are about as cute as any I have ever seen. And you are a very good Daddy. Far and away better than most.
No Big K, I am not in NC. It's a small town and we share a common interest and I have to see him and his new lady at least once a week and we are trying to reestablish an appropriate friendship.
Fraidycat, I’m a FWW who was involved in an EA and became emotionally attached to a close opposite sex friend myself. Like you, I also didn’t know what an EA was and that something like that existed, but luckily I discovered this website.
Anyway, I want to tell you that once boundaries have been crossed from friendship into more, there is no turning back and once that has happen you can never be friends with the OM ever again for 2 reasons:
1) It doesn’t work (I’ve been there and tried that). 2) Staying friends with the OM is grossly disrespectful to the BS. You lost the privilege to be friends with OM the moment actions and/or feelings have crossed boundaries into more than just friendship…even though the inappropriate feelings for the OP might have happened unwittingly and unintentionally.
Luna - I think this is good Plan A behaviour. Heck he might even wake up. Who knows. But Stef must play hard to get. No SF.
Just to be clear....I don't think stph20 should be having SF either.....in fact, I wondered if even flirting was already giving WS 'too much' and enabling some cake-eating!
Hey Suzet with a star. I have some idea of where FC lives and what she is up against. I believe the biggest obstacle for her to go NC is that she doesn't want to tell H. There is no good way to explain the NC without exposing the EA. I could be wrong but I think that may be what is going on.
I just found the bag of Epsom salts so I am going to unwrap the heated jet bubble vibrating foot massager. I had to combine two different shower systems but I installed the Aguamagic accunozzle shower system last night. Stayed in there for 2 hours. Think I'll go put a lamp together first.
It was harmless flirting...he is still my H and I'm going to act like he is, in a way, when I'm with him. We're just getting over being nervous around each other again.
I guess, in a way, I was trying to stir up some feelings that would make him take a step back and re-evaluate what he really wants. But, once again, I don't know what I'm doing.
Suzet, I appreciate what you are saying. That's one reason it has been so difficult. But we are trying to rise above this and be mature, caring concerned people. We are trying to walk the walk of a true friendship because it would be so revealing if we shunned one another. There are no boundaries being crossed. We are truly trying to engender a healthy relationship with both of our significant others. I know this flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but it is the mature emotionally healthy way for us to behave. I never said it was easy and we may not succeed, but we have to try. It's almost like a divorce between two people who still have children in common. We have to learn to interact appropriately for the sake of others. Okay, bash away.
Suzet, I appreciate what you are saying. That's one reason it has been so difficult. But we are trying to rise above this and be mature, caring concerned people.
You mean you are trying to pretend like you are "mature, caring, concerned people." But it is little more than an ACT designed to trick your victims so they won't detect your trickery and fraud and deceit. Can you be "open-minded" to that truth?
Not going to put up with abuse. Melody. That is not what I mean, and I have put in many hard long hours analysing what I really feel. It is no act, it is a genuine attempt to redefine the R into something that is correct for both of us. I was a victim of my own stupidity and naivete and I have learned from my mistakes.
I can be open minded to truth and this is my version of the truth.
Egads, I think I have entered a hornet's nest. I will just shut up now. I thought that I had a place here, but I guess I don't. I knew I was taking a big risk telling my story. So much for the truth.
OK, I've completely cleaned the outside area of the fridge. Much gross stuff underneath but it's all been vaccuumed & cleaned. Let me just take a moment to say how poorly designed these things are. If the coils funtion better when free of gunk why are they so difficult to reach?
The stooopid thing still beeps & I'm quite sure that's what's freaking out the dog. I dragged her up from one of her hiding spots into the kitchen. She immediately looked at the frige with her ears back & flat against her head. When the fridge beeped she tried to bolt out the door.
I found no battery. I have turned the coldness levels up in the fridge & the freezer. I'll wait & see.
Hi larousse. No, she is not being mistreated, but thanks for the suggestion. The boys absolutely love the dog. If she would sleep on their beds with them thry would love it. Several times each day they hug & kiss her. They look for her first thing when they get home from school. They take good care of her & she loves them back. There are no other people in our house when I'm not home. If the boys have friends over I'm here.
The UT infection was a thought of mine when this first started but she seems to "go" just fine.
I'm really feeling like it's the stoooopid fridge. I'm going to find a number for the co. & call customer service.
Well Ijust unpacked my new 100 foot 12 AWG extension cord with ground. It has taken me 10 minutes to cut all the warning labels off. Now I know why it was 100 feet long - it HAD to be. Did you know that plugging in an extension cord may cause electrocution?
Yes, I flirted back and I really don't see anything wrong with it when I'm trying to entice him back. It obviously worked before when he wanted to date me, I'm sure it can work again even though we're in different circumstances.
Not going to put up with abuse. Melody. That is not what I mean, and I have put in many hard long hours analysing what I really feel. It is no act, it is a genuine attempt to redefine the R into something that is correct for both of us. I was a victim of my own stupidity and naivete and I have learned from my mistakes.
I can be open minded to truth and this is my version of the truth.
Honey, it is a "genuine" attempt to defraud your victims and no one is fooled by that. [except your poor hapless victims, of course!] "Redefine," my [censored]. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Abuse? Isn't it "abuse" to have affairs and lie to your husband and trick him? Isn't it abuse to DEFRAUD someone into thinking you are faithful? Does your husband have to "put up" with that "abuse?"
Just trying to be "open minded" here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Egads, I think I have entered a hornet's nest. I will just shut up now. I thought that I had a place here, but I guess I don't. I knew I was taking a big risk telling my story. So much for the truth.
Did you think you found a place that would support trickery and fraud? Apparently you aren't too "open minded" to opposing "truths," are you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I think I have entered a hornet's nest. I will just shut up now. I thought that I had a place here, but I guess I don't. I knew I was taking a big risk telling my story. So much for the truth.
You do have a place here...just don't ask us to support LIES!
If you really want to R your M....maybe not now, but at one point, you will need to consider taking down the wall of lies between you and your S.
...try as you may....and you seem keen on doing THAT!... you will have to put your cards on the table to be able to regain the intimacy of your M...or continue to live a façade.
I am sorry if it may not be what you want to hear, FC....
A lie is a lie...no matter how you sugarcoat it!
Your BS cannot speak for himself....because he DOESN'T KNOW.... I would like to speak on his behalf...being a BS myself!
Dear WS (because that is what you still are, FC!)... you have no right to withhold information about my life because...
...in so doing, you are not allowing me to CHOOSE what I want or do not want in my life.....
...in so doing, you are taking away from me what is a fundamental right for everyone else....
...in so doing, you are only trying to protect YOURSELF from the consequences of your actions
Melody, I am not going to fight with you over this. YOu can paint me with the broad brush of judgment, that's fine, I understand why you are bitter. But your truth is not universal and in this case it simply doesn't apply. And by abuse, I meant your disrespectful judgment of me.... someone whom you don't know and circumstances that you do not understand. You cannot understand them as you have not been told the whole story.
My obligation is to my H to make my behavior appropriate, not to this board. It is not always one size fit all.
I have received a lot of insight concerning my behavior on this board by lurking, and I am not so sure that that isn't what I should still be doing. I don't need to be accused of things which do not apply to me.
By reading for 2 years and lurking and having my experiences there is one thing that I have found, and that is we are all unique entities and our situations are unique in many respects. We may have a lot of things in common, but there are untold permutations of this age old relationship problem and i am striving for an objective look at my sitch and those of others.
I am not asking for your support of lies. I am simply telling you that this is the only way that my sitch can be handled. I am telling you that I have determined that this is the only prudent course of action for me to take. I know better than you that it's not optimal for the sake of my M but it will have to do as it's the best thing I can do.
And for the record, I do not consider that the life I am living now is a lie in any way. I will not deny that it was, but it is no longer the case. My A as it becomes more clear to me wasn't about loving someone, it was about loving how someone made me feel. I have discovered a lot about myself and I feel that I have made progress. Please don't try to tear down the very hard earned progress that I have made.
Fc, you may not be who I think you might be but too many coincidences.
In your first post you said you had something to solve with someone here.
You know a little of cancer. The poster I keep thinking on when I read your posts voluntered in a hospital and knew OM1 when he had cancer and was going to die. He didn't and the poster kept and ongoing affair EA for years.
The poster lived in a semirural area.
Ages match, justifications match.
If you are not her, great. I'm no one to tell anyone to go or to stay.
Did you know that plugging in an extension cord may cause electrocution?
As a matter of fact, Pio....I didn't!
Thanks for the tip....I will try to remember it the next time a need to plug a 100 ft extension cord... as a matter of fact, given this HIGH a risk.... I may find a way to never ever have to again...LOL!
fc, it is NEVER appropriate to lie and defraud someone. Anyone who can "judge" right from wrong knows this. One does not have to be "bitter" to understand that simple truth. You can dress up a pig, but guess what? You just have a HAWG in a dress. And no one here is fooled by your rationalizations. There is nothing "unique" about lying and trickery, we see it on this board every day.
You obligation is to tell the TRUTH to your victim, not to TRICK him with continual LIES and this fraudulent pretense at "being friends." What an abhorrent, manipulative act of disrespect to your husband.
No one is accusing you of anything you have not done. You know very well it is the truth and that you are being dishonest and cruel. Your silly, self serving rationalizations might ring true in your own fogged out mind, but they will not work with sane people who are in touch with reality.
Larousse, I am not her ....whomever she may be. Sorry..... it may be a stunning coincidence, but I am only what I have represented here. I don't know how to prove a negative. For now, I guess I will just have to trust that you all will figure out that I am me and that's all.
Also for the record, I am a medical professional, and have had lots of experience with cancer through losses in my family. That's my only experience with that. OM is still alive and kicking and has had no cancer.
And Pio, I feel like I have been electrocuted. Wish I had seen the warning tags.
I am not asking for your support of lies. I am simply telling you that this is the only way that my sitch can be handled. I am telling you that I have determined that this is the only prudent course of action for me to take. I know better than you that it's not optimal for the sake of my M but it will have to do as it's the best thing I can do.
And for the record, I do not consider that the life I am living now is a lie in any way. I will not deny that it was, but it is no longer the case. My A as it becomes more clear to me wasn't about loving someone, it was about loving how someone made me feel. I have discovered a lot about myself and I feel that I have made progress. Please don't try to tear down the very hard earned progress that I have made.
But would your husband agree with this reasoning? This is all very nice and self serving FOR YOU, but what about his best interest? Would he agree that it is in HIS best interest to be lied to and tricked like this?
Since these are facts about HIS life, shouldn't he have a say in all this? How is it that you, the rapist, feels qualified to make that determination for him? You see, fc, not telling him is cruel and manipulative. It makes his life a LIE. You are keeping him in a marriage based on a LIE.
And don't think that just stopping the affair and pretending to be friends changes anything. It doesn't. Because every day you don't tell him is another LIE added to the list of crimes. And believe me, he will see it like that. You have stolen this man's life by lying to him.
And to add insult to injury you allow him to be around the OM without knowing what he has done with his wife. That is very, very cruel, fc.
I called Whirlpool, first the person on the phone says I must have a counterfeit Whirlpool because I don't have the model # on a silver plaque in the place she INSISTS they ALWAYS are. I suggest I look in the frezzer for the plaque with the model number she says "No, it's NEVER there" Ok. So I look & there it is, the model number, not on a silver plaque, so she may be right I just may have a counterfeit Whirlpool, it's on a sticker with all kinds of pertinent information.
She's quite suspicious of me at this point but decides to "check this out" for me anyway. Three or four crappy songs later she's back to say no one has ever heard of a fridge "beeping", making other noises yes, but not beeping. She tells me the controlls might need to be reset. Unplug the fridge for a few minutes then plug it back in & all should be well. If not she gave me a repair center name. Quite helpful even though she's snippy.
OK, I unplug...I STILL hear the beeping. I think maybe there is a battery as Pio suggested. I search, no place I can find. I listen, the beeping may not be coming from in the frige, maybe on top. I check, nothing. I wait,...beep!
I check the drawers next to the fridge...there is a smoke detector with a battery that needs to be replaced & that's what's been beeping. I wn't tell you for how long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. Ahhh.
I have to see if the dog will want to come back into the main parts of the house again now that the scary noise is gone.
My A as it becomes more clear to me wasn't about loving someone, it was about loving how someone made me feel. I have discovered a lot about myself and I feel that I have made progress. Please don't try to tear down the very hard earned progress that I have made.
Honesty is the FIRST STEP in recovery. You have not taken even the FIRST STEP. There is no progress here at all. Not only do you continue to deceive your victim, but you are dishonest with yourself. Honesty is the SOLUTION to adultery, not more lies, fc.
Melody, let's consider a scenario. Suppose I was Todd's wife. And I realized that what I had done was wrong but instead of denying what I had done and distancing myself from my H who was having his own troubles, I was able to ensure that he never find out. I could support him, make his life comfortable, go back to loving him, solve my marriage problems without having to hurt him. Which choice do you think would be the more loving choice. I have lived in silence with this for 4 years, it never dawned on my H that there was a problem and I don't want to make him feel worse or downgrade his quality of life. It's not a justification for my remaining friends with my exOM. It's a necessity for not hurting my H. He's had quite enough to contend with and I am recovering nicely and things are improving, why would I want to inflict this upon him?? So I can have a perfect marriage?? Thanks I'll suck it up and pass. He's happy. He has no idea. I owe him more than that. I feel it would be cruel to pull the rug out from under him and destroy his illusions.
And Melody, quit making fun of me with the little smiley faces. I can see your point and I understand it, it simply isn't the best course of action for me given my H's troubles and his personality. I can make this a good marriage, it was for 33 years and I have faith that it can be pretty dapq good again. I have every reason to want it to succeed. Three wonderful kids, 2 grand kids and it was my problem not his. There is no longer any type of emotional tie to OM, we are on our separate paths, but we still have to be friendly to one another. It was never love, it was always friendship, I just mistook it for love.
I just hate to sit idle. I was able to assemble the lamp while getting a soothing foot massage and watching North Shore (except for the parts I missed to: make the strawberry milk, get the DVD player working for DD2, vcuum all the styrofoam balls off the floor from the lamp packaging, get DD1's bike out of the garage, fight with DD1 to take a shower (I'm the worst dat again and she hates me), brush her hair and make her a peanut butter sandwich). At the very end Jason got in a car and it blew up only minutes after marrying Nicole. I'm guessing it was a season finale.
I did strim the hedge and corkscrew the trees this afternoon on gemela's garden. That doesn't mean anything, does it?
It's a necessity for not hurting my H. He's had quite enough to contend with and I am recovering nicely and things are improving, why would I want to inflict this upon him?? So I can have a perfect marriage?? Thanks I'll suck it up and pass. He's happy. He has no idea. I owe him more than that. I feel it would be cruel to pull the rug out from under him and destroy his illusions.
fc, it is cruel - and MANIPULATIVE - to have affairs and deceive people about their own lives. Let's consider another scenario. Let's consider that your H might feel like HE is a grown man and HE should be the one to make decisions about his own life based on the truth. Because illusion is right.
And your rationalizations are self serving bullcrap. Your H has already been hurt by your affair and is being hurt with every passing day that you continue to decieve him about his life. You are the last person who is qualified to determine what is best for your H. You are the one who inflicted the harm.
You are keeping him in a marriage based on a lie. You are manipulating him into staying with you.
People are not happy living lives based on illusions. What you are saying is incredibly disrespectful and assumes that your husband cannot handle the truth.
Honesty is the solution to infidelity, not more LIES. You owe your husband the TRUTH, not more lies.
One of my million things to do done. Two really if the beeping is what was driving the dog into hiding. hey, three! The fridge got cleaned.
Youngest son will be so pleased if the dog is back to her normal self. He was so upset & worried last night he was crying while lying in his bed. I did manage to convince him all this would work out. I just hope it really has.
So larousse, when do you see your BF next? Have you two talked of making this relationship less long distance & how that might be done?
And Melody, quit making fun of me with the little smiley faces. I can see your point and I understand it, it simply isn't the best course of action for me given my H's troubles and his personality. I can make this a good marriage, it was for 33 years and I have faith that it can be pretty dapq good again. I have every reason to want it to succeed. Three wonderful kids, 2 grand kids and it was my problem not his. There is no longer any type of emotional tie to OM, we are on our separate paths, but we still have to be friendly to one another. It was never love, it was always friendship, I just mistook it for love.
More rationalizations ................ What is the best course of action for your HUSBAND? Does he get a say in this or is he just your PET?
I do not consider that the life I am living now is a lie in any way.
FC,
You are 'withholding' information from your S about HIS life! ...HE IS the one living a lie, and you are CHOOSING for him to do so.
Give him the 'truth' and let HIM decide what HE wants to do about it!.... he will either choose to work with you, or not....
...and what you are afraid of is that he may choose otherwise.... and THAT possible consequence to YOUR actions is what you are trying to avoid to face at the cost of your BS's choices in life.
...and one way of 'controlling' the outcome.... is by not telling your BS the truth....
You are not protecting your BS....you are protecting yourself... and one day he will find out.... and the amount of pain he will suffer will be proportional to the amount of time you have hidden the truth from him
...the longer you wait.... the more pain he will experience....
Melody, I guess we are going to have to agree to just disagree. I cannot convince you that my situation truly calls for this as the best course of action. I know where you are coming from and I understand why you are so sure that it's the best course of action. Without revealing TMI I cannot explain to you why I feel that this is the best way for me to handle this.
Not handing out any more lies to h, just not telling him how my life was for a short period of time. And no contrary to what you say, he wouldn't be able to handle this. It would be the straw that broke the camel's back. He has had a lot of injustice in life to deal with through no fault of his own and I am not going to make his life more difficult. Right, wrong or indifferent this is how it's going to be. And who are you to sit in judgment of someone like me? YOu don't know me, you don't know my level of honesty and you don't understand my individual situation. I know I sound like a lot of WW in denial, but it simply isn't so.
I'm so impressed. Now, don't forget the Conair Kit.
Nam, I hope you didn't have to endure the beep for long. Could it be that you were talking with and outsourced woman of wirlpool in, let's say, Mexico. Lol.
And no Luna, I am not afraid of the consequences. He loves me and he would never do anything but try to help me. I am loathe to hurt him. He's had enough hardship in his life, I just don't want to cause more pain to him. He would live through it, and even not knowing has improved greatly in his understanding of me with my telling him of my problems without revealing what they led to. We are healing even without him knowing all the details of my life.
I don't know who Sarie is and I still don't know how to prove that I am not all these other people that you all keep thinking that I am.
Pio, are you getting tired of the cat fight? I am.
We all know I've had my share of problems with advice here. While I have taken and used everyone's advice, I know I have had problems understanding why I should do what I have been told to do and have frustrated people to no end. Sorry for that, BTW. I hope this doesn't make me a hypocrite.
Anyway, this isn't about me.
So, my problem is this...after reading what's going on here at TKO with FC and reading another post, what I don't understand is why people come here, wanting advice, but they only tell part of their story or they get defensive when told what to do. No, we don't know anyone here personally, which is sometimes a very good thing. I've gotten advice from here and from people who know me and this has been the advice that I've followed. We all need an outside perspective and non-judgemental advice, especially from people who have "been there, done that".
But don't come here asking for advice and don't take the advice that's given or get defensive because someone may be making assumptions when you haven't given the whole truth. Nobody has ever claimed to "know" anybody here, that I've seen, but everyone here has been in each others shoes. We are ALL BS's and WS's and we're all here for the exact same reason...support.
If you're not going to take the support offered because you don't agree with it, or we don't know the whole story, which you are choosing to not give or you're too defensive to listen to it, why are you here in the first place?
I am not understanding why people are here and obviously don't want to be and have no intentions on following the MB principles or the advice given here.
I have been smacked upside the head, yelled at, grounded and everything else on this forum, but I need that sometimes and it has helped.
But don't get mad or try to diminish someone's feelings who has been here and had to deal with this for a long time when all they want and all they are trying to do is help because they have been here and they have recovered and they do know what they're talking about! Obviously you're way is not working, or you wouldn't be miserable or guilty and you wouldn't have had a reason to cheat/be cheated on in the first place.
Sorry for the longevity, just wanted to put my 2 cents in.
originally in one week and a half but he may come until the holiday. Instead of a turkey he'll get guajolote con mole, much more tasty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Melody, I guess we are going to have to agree to just disagree. I cannot convince you that my situation truly calls for this as the best course of action. I know where you are coming from and I understand why you are so sure that it's the best course of action. Without revealing TMI I cannot explain to you why I feel that this is the best way for me to handle this.
Not handing out any more lies to h, just not telling him how my life was for a short period of time. And no contrary to what you say, he wouldn't be able to handle this. It would be the straw that broke the camel's back. He has had a lot of injustice in life to deal with through no fault of his own and I am not going to make his life more difficult. Right, wrong or indifferent this is how it's going to be. And who are you to sit in judgment of someone like me? YOu don't know me, you don't know my level of honesty and you don't understand my individual situation. I know I sound like a lot of WW in denial, but it simply isn't so.
fc, I do sit in judgment of anyone who lies and cheats to people. Anyone who knows right from wrong can judge that this is wrong. Our prisons are full of people who can't judge right from wrong and that is exactly where they belong.
I would also suggest that you are the LAST person qualified to determine what is in the best interest of your H. You are simply not qualified. The rapist is not qualified to decide what is "best" for his victim.
Nor are your rationalizations convincing. They are self serving excuses that serve only you and fool no one here. They are not even good excuses, fc.
There is no excuse to continue to trick your H, fc. No one can make you tell him, but don't imagine that anyone here is going to accept or condone your cruelty. You won't find any endorsement here for dishonesty. Sorry.
If you want acceptance of your lies and deceit, you might try www.gloryb.com. They encourage a culture of corruption and you would fit right in.
I just got the DDs down to watch a movie. I think it is some type of family movie. Has anybody ever heard of "The Godfather"? I've never seen it but I liked the title. I hope they enjoy it.
I am going to try out my new Braun Ultimate electric shaver. I like buying "the ultimate" because I know they can never upgrade. I hate buying the best PC because in a week it no longer is. I thought long and hard before I got my Bowflex. I was tempted to get the Bowflex Xtreme but finally opted for the Bowflex Ultimate. I figured it could never get any better than that. I was wrong. They came out with "the ultimate II". I juts hate that.
Anyway, another hour or two in the accunozzle jet stream and then it is back to the wax. I may even wax my elbows. It's amazing what all you can wax. I never knew.
The red letters were on this site or it happens when you see other sites? Todd I'm really worried about you, you caused the false alarms just to be restrained in handcuffs and spend the night like that, now you try to initiate Pio on the clamps colection, tsk, tsk.
Hi Larousse,
The red font can appear on any webpage not just MB.
As for the clamps, if Pio would simply open his mind and his heart to the idea of clamps, they could make him forget all about cable ties. I have no respect for cable ties. Yes, they are simple. Yes, majestic in their own way. But hold down a wood stock while you carve? I don't think so.
I can already tell I am going to have to buy new furniture so we can have places to put the scrapbook stuff. Scrapbooking is like infidelity - it never ends. Just when you think you see light at the end of the tunnel, you hit another curve. Scrapbooking is rewriting history, creating fantasy. I never realized there were so many parallels. OMG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Okay, you can stick a fork in me I am done. I do not appreciate being called a rapist and do not feel that it applies to me. What a nice way to treat someone who came here looking to help and be helped. I didn't come here to fight with any of you. I have gotten immesurable help from this board until I began posting. Obviously for people like me, lurking is more helpful. I didn't ask for all this argument, I didn't start it, I responded to Big K's questions. I knew it would be opening a can of worms for me and I thought I was strong enough to take the criticism. But I never dreamed I would be called a rapist.
And Stef 20 be careful, if you don't do it exactly like they think you should, you will be branded as a rapist or something worse perhaps.
Melody I tried to respond in a reasonable way to you, but it got nasty and ugly. Surely you are better than that.
FC, I haven't quite got this all worked out in my head & I'll probably end up with this thing being presented in many pieces but I'll tell you what I can of my story & how I perceive ex's withholding the truth from me mattered.
ex came to me saying he wanted to D 3 1/3 years ago. I asked if there was someone else, NO he claims. MC askes if there is someone else, NO, he says. I suspect, do what checking I can but can't confirm he's having an affair.
ex agrees to stay "one year" to see if he will "fall abck in love with me". I plan A all the while. One year goes by ex says he will be going through with D.
It becomes apparent after he moves out he has been seeing someone he works with. Within two months of moving out he has introduced the kids to gf. Two weeks after the D is final he has moved in with gf. There's more that points to an affair but I don't need to go into that because I've choosen to believe he cheated. EA/PA I don't know.
Had ex been honest with me, had he been willing to fess up, had he let me decide how I wanted to proceed by giving me ALL the information I deserved who knows how things may have turned out. As it was I didn't get to act on the facts because he felt I didn't need to know them. He made the decision for me by withholding crucial information.
Why? I can guess. Fear mostly. Fear of confrontation, fear of losing OW, fear of what I might tell the boys & their reaction to his actions. He took away my ability to make choices based on facts & left me with uncertainty & on shaky ground when attempting to reconcile. It has it's affects still & will into the future because he will not admit what he did. I'm sure he thinks he handled things in the best way but that's only the best way for him. It's unfair for him to choose for me.
Actually I've just been on this board over the last couple of months because I never really dealt with the fact of infidelity in my marriage because ex never confirmed it. Because I didn't have absolute proof of an affair a big part of my healing was delayed & major issues were left un-dealt with because I didn't know the facts. ex made that choice for me too. To be mild ex's actions were arrogant, selfishly motivated, cruel, manipulative & deceptive. There's more I'm sure.
I just remember, the shoes, the boxes, get them undusted, pull them out of the end of the garage !
Well her clothes were pretty well jumbled up from shipping, customs inspection, repacking and unpacking. I was certain I went up and carefully folded all of HER stuff. One less problem.
Nams, I appreciate your situation and your rational way of presenting it. But I never wanted to leave my H, I didn't understand why I had fallen in "love" with someone else. It was my problem, not his. I have other issues which caused me to seek validation outside of my marriage. It was not something that he did wrong. Now that I can see what was motivating my behavior, I have changed it, and I am trying to make the best situation possible. I thought for the longest I loved them both equally. It was truly me all screwed up. I feel that it's my problem to deal with alone because he didn't do anything to really cause it.
And Luna, I understand perfectly what you are saying. But what I am trying to tell you is my A was an illusion in my own mind. It had very little to do with reality. My reality was that I loved my H and didn't understand why I was acting in this fashion. I have figured it out, I see the error of my ways and why I was acting like this and I didn't love that other man, I just thought I did.
Before my Dday, I had never heard of an EA. As a BS, I understand their danger. I wonder how many people have EA's without ever realizing what they have done.
FC, just one more thing. I haven't read all of the things that have been said to you but I think this is pertinent.
Once upon a time...when I knew things weren't going well in the marriage, before I took steps to improve things in a way ex said he wanted them improved, I thought to myself, "if ex cheated I wouldn't want to know".
This was allowing him to run my life for me. To think that I could live a life, have a marriage based on a lie means I didn't think very much of myself at the time. Well, I lived that & it is not the way to go. The truth makes ALL the difference. I still don't have that so I have to piece things together to make reasonable guesses. This is not what someone does to the person they say they love.
Shouldn't your H know who he is married to? From the sounds of it, you want to portray to your H that your are someone you are not? How can there be true intimacy in a marriage if this is the case? Should he not know ALL of you, the good and the bad?
I hate to get hung up on tiny details, but why is a smoke detector in a drawer and not on, oh let's say, the ceiling?
Because we all know that smoke rises and smoke on the ceiling can't hurt you (unless you're painting the ceiling). It is when it gets down low that you really want to worry about it. I thought it was a clever idea. I'm taking all mine down tonight.
I know you feel that way Todd and I understand. But there was very little emotional distance that came about as a result of my EA. To my H it seemed like everything was fine. Very little changed for us during that period of time. He was and remains unaware of any real problems in the marriage. From his point of view everything was pretty good. And I have to say that I think we will once again have a really good marriage. How can you argue with sucess of a 37 year marriage? He has a lot of stress in his life, I just couldn't burden him with more.
Pio, I am sure there are untold numbers of people who had that very thing happen and didn't have a clue. I am reasonably bright and you could have knocked me over with a feather. That's why I say I have learned so very much about myself.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm going upstairs to referee where I'm REALLY needed. I can here the DDs fighting of a doll. DD2 has really improved her vertical leap. Time for "jump Bratz" and see who wins the tip-off.
Well, I clearly do not need another smoke detector in my place. After the FD came out the third, and hopefully final time, they owners installed forty two smoke detectors in my place. I have removed all the batteries and now have a nice collection. Anyone need any 9V batteries?
Hi Todd! Seeing better? Did you phone your Dr.? I hope you're well.
I wondered when someone would ask why the smoke detector was in a drawer.
The truth: It's all tied in with the way I cook. The way I know something is done is if the smoke detector goes off. It's my, OK it's not completely burned beyond recognition & still pretty close to edible alarm, if you will.
It was in a drawer because at one time we had too many up & thisone in particular would go off if you looked at it funny. I must have put in the drawer just to shut it up & forgotten about it.
How many DAYS have I had to put up with the beeping? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Remember it's been on & off beeping, not constant. Just keep that in mind.
The dog will not come in the house yet so I still don't know if it was the beeping that was freaking her out.
My last reference to any of this. FG there are some things that just don't need to be said or known. He knows the issues that I have that caused this problem, he is helping and we are doing better. In a perfect world yes it would be best for him to know every excruiciating detail and yes Stef. it would have been ever so much easier for me if I had his help, I simply refuse to hurt him. Call it justification or whatever, I have my reasons and they are valid for me.
Yes, thank you, I did get a good nights sleep. I have not seen red font this morning. I seem to recall that one of the medicines I take causes visual disturbances. Maybe that is it. I have a call into my doc. He most likely will call after lunch or at the end of the day.
I did some reading on my medicines last night. Since undergoing treatment, my cheeks (no, not those!) have been somewhat swollen. Chipmunk cheeks sorta. Anyway, I learned that it is a side effect of one of the medications I take. But then again, Christie Brinkley has chipmunk cheeks.
I have made some progress today. I vacuumed the remnants of my knuckles and toes. Almost clogged the vacuum. Chewing the knuckles was so good, I tend to keep chewing the nubs that are left. So I bought two bottles of that stuff one puts on fingernails, or toenails, to help you stop chewing your nails. It tastes awful but I have adjusted to it quite well. It tastes like the CrockerPot dinner I cooked that day.
If you read my thread FC, you'll see I had my reasons to, for believing what WH told me, etc.
I still followed ALL of the advice I was given and it has helped immensly.
You don't have to do anything anyone here is telling you, just keep in mind that it's in your best interest and in your BH's best interest that you do what has been suggested. You should be here as much for him as you are for yourself.
But, once again, don't attack anyone for giving the advice you came here for when you're not telling us the whole story. We should all feel safe here.
I need one of those smoke detectors. I need something to tell me when the food is done and not after a fire has broken out. Maybe I should remove half of the SD's and put them into drawers. Maybe that is the trick.
I shouldn't say this too loud but my son brought me a microwave yesterday. So, last night I cooked my first meal in it. Fruit cocktail. You know the type in the can? It is not so good hot. Hot grapes? I don't know.
Hey Stef, I didn't attack anyone. I certainly didn't call anyone a rapist. I didn't even want to share my story, but trusted Big K and that trust was appropriate, he obviously understands that not all situations are the same. I actually didn't come here asking for advice. I came for support and camaraderie and but mostly to help others and support them. I know that seems disengenuous, but I felt that I had been doing pretty well solving my problems within the confines of my own situation. It's the others who have projected their own concerns onto my H.
I honestly wasn't trying to start a fight, I was just responding to questions that were asked of me and all of a sudden I felt like I had been lynched.
There is no question that in your situation Stef that you have been given very good advice. I am glad that you are benefitting and that its proving to be helpful to you.
Melody I tried to respond in a reasonable way to you, but it got nasty and ugly. Surely you are better than that.
FC, I am sure you do find hearing the truth to be "nasty and ugly." We find the ACTIONS that those "nasty and ugly" words describe to be most "nasty and ugly." And yes, the best analogy for a putrid affair is RAPE. It is the one that Dr. Harley uses often. He equates adultery to a RAPE. Did you know that? So, keep that in mind when you consider what you have done to your victim. And keep that in mind when I assert that the rapist is not qualified to determine what is best for her victim. Now wouldn't that be a silly notion since you are the person who is the LEAST qualified to decide what is best for him?
But consider this, fc, your H may not choose to be married to someone who lies and cheats on him. He may not choose to stay married to someone who would cruelly allow him to be around her co-conspirator while he remains in ignorance.
Shouldn't your H have the RIGHT to make the decision if he wants to stay married to you or not? Do you feel you have a right to deny him the right of self determination?
Todd, I kinda like warm fruit. Sometimes I buy frozen & microwave it. Yum!
I just heard back from Sandi about her side effects. She had visual effects too but for her it was mostly double vision. She was told it was due to nerve dammage which could heal itself & largely has.
Glad you called the Dr. Sandi has sworn them off them off & this was part of the reason I was hoping you be able to see her info. on her web site. She took a different approach to her care than many would. Just different, not better.
Todd, you need to find your sheet of common side-effects. It could go a long way to allaying your fears. But until you do, there's still nothing wrong with reporting all to your doc. He'd rather hear it all than to miss something important.
I thought that I would like hot fruit also. How long do you cook it? I waved it for 23 minutes and it was hot enough. Just kinda watery. I am beginning to think that a microwave cooks foods faster than a stove.
Yeah, I also have double vision but had that from the tumor itself. Apparently the tumor, or tissue had pressed against my optic nerve and that caused the problem, or so I understand.
Have you heard of Pavlov and his dog? I think he is the guy who treated a child who was afraid of dogs. He sat the child in a room and gave him an ice cream cone and then introduced a dog into the room. The boy's love of the ice cream blunted his fear of the dog.
So, to apply this principle to your dog, have him sit in a chair and have one of your sons walk slowly into the room eating an ice cream cone. Or maybe a dog biscuit.
The reason I think this is an issue of being scared is because she's fine outside & in her hiding areas. She eats & gets rid of what she eats. She was just outside barking at the much hated little white dog from next door. She's a bit of a racist really. She's a rottweiler/german shepard mix. She has the coloring of a rotty but the body of a shepard. Very pretty. She HATES little white dogs.
Todd, while cleaning my fridge I looked in the cabnet above & I found my iron. I thought I threw it out after the craft project had ruined it. Since I clearly have no use for it I can send it along to you with instructions on how to use it as a grill. I'll even make up a little something & send it along with it. Another care package.
I added some Frank's Hot Sauce - Chili & Lime to my meat loaf & sauteed mushroms. Yummy! I have some blueberries in the freezer that I'll micro wave right now. How long Todd? 1 or 2 hours? Will that be enough time?
Kiwi's gonna have lots of catching up to do. Sorry FC, just a joke.
Thank you but I had best decline the iron. I haven't been in jail in a long time and don't really fancy going back. Besides, now that I eat and take showers in my clothes, they don't seem to be as wrinkled. My son did bring his iron over and I tried to smooth out my shirt a little but now I have burn marks all over my chest and arms.
It depends on the watts rating of your microwave. Don't use the defrost setting; it takes waaay too long. If you are defrosting an entire package of blueberries, I would shoot for an hour on high. That should do it.
I awoke this morning with the earworm "Tequila Sunrise". I don't know why. I didn't drink tequila last night and I had the drapes closed so I did not see the sunrise. Any ideas how to get rid of it? It is about cheating you know. Maybe I can replace it with Lyin' Eyes. Oh no, that one is about cheating also.
Is it coincidence that so many songs, television shows and movies are about cheating? I think I just depressed myself.
After careful inventory, I have discovered that I bought only black cables ties nad white cable ties. At first that seemed reasonable because they are so practical. Then it occurred to me that it is odd that I didn't buy any grey cable ties. So my new cable ties are black and white with no grey. I was wondering if there might not be a hidden meaning in that too?
DDDuuuhhh???? As if you can't see it??? You hate the grey zone...you like things black and white, clear, direct, no room for confusion, misinterpretation. Pio, is this a set up or are you for real and what do you do with the cable ties???? Are you preparing for something?
I don't think you've been abused. Mel tells it like it is and if you're not willing to follow the methods that have worked for hundreds in the past, she has little patience.
But if you listen to her, and follow her advice, you will find (as I did) she is right on the money and it all makes sense.
Stef, I think you missed the part about my not asking for advice. Not once did I ask for any. It's not that i don't think the advice here is good, it's just it will not apply to my situation. In a perfect world, I think it's the best thing going. And there's no doubt that it has helped more than hundreds in the past. That's probably why I don't need to post here. It brings the worst out in people. It's obviously a huge trigger for her. I am certain that I remind several of them of someone that they took huge issue with. However, that's not me.
Another earworm is Mozart's Eine Kline Nachtmusik. Don't even listen to it once, it will be with you for an eternity.
Oh, that sound has served as earworm on many days. Ironically, yesterday my earworm was another Mozart composition, in fact, specifically, the great Toscanini's interpretation of Mozart's 40th Symphony in G minor.
I'll talke the 40th any day in comparison to Eine Kleine or however you spell that German. Now a really "good ear worm" is the Requiem. Now that is great music and I could have it in my ear for eternity and never be upset at all. To me it is heavenly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am convinced that "Small World" is also about cheating.
it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear there's so much that we share (WS & OP) that its time we're aware its a small world after all
Played Fur Elise[/i] in my 4th grade recital. It's a wonderful little piece. Boy did I think I was hot stuff.
Do you know [i]Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral from Lohengrin? Very powerful music, gorgeous horn parts. Opens with a nice ensemble of flute, E horn, oboe and clarinet.
FC, you should listen Dr. Harley's radio broadcast from today (it was from a prior show) that will be rebroadcast (probably) this afternoon. It was all about the importance of honesty in your marriage. Hopefully, it will enlighten you as to the wisdom and benefits of radical honesty.
Luna, I don't think it serves any useful purpose to beat this horse to death any more. I am doing the best I can and that's all there is to it. So please don't treat me with any more sarcasm.
Trix, I am absolutely 100% in agreement with that premise. I have no quarrel with it as being the best method in general. How can I agree more with everyone? I know you all think I am in la la land because I chose not to implement it in my situation, but that is my decision and I am not going to do something that I don't think is best. I am an independent thinker and I have determined that it's not for me. But i don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I know it's a very good tenet and underpinning for a very healthy marriage. I do not disagree with that.
Anyone know how get relief from burns? Does butter really work? I tried drinking some aloe lotion but that didn't help much. I love the taste of butter; maybe it will be better.
Again Kiwi, I cannot prove a negative. I don't know who Sarie is and if my story resembles hers it's pure coincidence. Don't waste a whole lot of brainpower on it if you really think that, I can't change anyone's mind here I have been trying for about 6 hours. I don't care if you are poster #1, I am still not Sarie. Haven't seen or read any thread about her and don't intend to waste my time. If you want you can ignore me. I have been trying to get past this stuff.
am trying to tell you is my A was an illusion in my own mind. It had very little to do with reality.
OK, FC ...now tell me something I DON'T know already!
Quote
Luna, I don't think it serves any useful purpose to beat this horse to death any more. I am doing the best I can and that's all there is to it. So please don't treat me with any more sarcasm.
FC,
Your initial comment was addressed to me..... and my reply to you was simply to ask you to please not insult my intelligence....
It is your life....and you will do as you please...
...I just think that option should be extended to your BS...
However, these guys value honesty above everything else. It's their wives' constant dishonesty and lying that is upsetting them more than their wives' affairs.
For that reason alone I think you should be careful how you post and whether this is the right thread for you to be on.
I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. I was trying to point out to you that my so called love for OM was the fallacy. I honestly didn't realize that while I was involved with OM. I don't mean this to be disrespectful to you in any way. I just don't see the merit in telling my H how crazy I went all for nothing. I was the one dealing in the illusion. It wasn't really love, I have seen that.
And I have been able to figure out why i thought it was so. Why tell him of my twisted mind? So he can decide whether or not to kick me out??? He loves me, he cares about me, and I am confident that it would just hurt him and we would still end up together. He's not going to decide that he doesn't want to be married to me with or without this revelation. That sounds supremely confident and arrogant, but I trust him and I know he loves me and I have no fears about my future even if he did find out. I just don't want to subject him to that hurt.
I am not confident about many things, but I have never doubted my H's love for me. He's been just about the best H one could ask for. I also have to add that from listening around here that I think Todd and Pio Big K and probably others I cannot remember are also those kinds of husbands to their wives. They have demonstrated love through and throughout their ordeals. It may be one thing that attracted me to this thread in the first place. I so admire what they are trying to do.
I view my problems in my marriage as my own doing and I feel that it is my responsibility to get myself straightened out without further hurt to anyone.
However, these guys value honesty above everything else. It's their wives' constant dishonesty and lying that is upsetting them more than their wives' affairs.
Jen is absolutely correct. I can put my WW's A behind me and even the coverup and deceit only and only if she now becomes honest and stops the lies.
FC,
MB has several fundamental tenets. One of those is radical honesty. It is of critical importance. Bigger long ago observed that there are two types of members here: those who heed the advice they are given and follow MB principles and those who ignore advice, whether sought or not, and wonder why their sitch does not improve.
In all candor, if you are not willing to have an open mind to feedback and criticism, you have to ask yourself what is your goal in being here?
Thank you Kiwi. I appreciate your believing me. And the point you made about how I post is exactly why I held back for this long. I guess Big K caught me in a weak moment this AM. I knew it would bring about a firestorm and I haven't been looking for support for my handling of my sitch. I know very well that it is not the best way to handle this, but as I have stated I have very good reasons for not doing this to my H. It hurts me as well to handle it in this fashion. If I felt I could do it according to the policy of radical honesty without causing distress to my H I would. He's had a lot to deal with and I just don't feel like I should hurt him in this manner.
I never intended to be combative or defensive. I was just responding to Big K's questions. He was very understanding. Perhaps that's why he is doing so well with his M. People make mistakes, it's humanity and we all have to live with mistakes that we or those close to us have made. i do not pretend to walk on water, I just want to minimize the hurt to my family and H.
I think I made it perfectly clear to you what my goal was in being here. It is no longer for me. It is because of my concern for others. If I am not wanted or needed then fine, I'll quit. I hate to see others hurt and felt I might have something valuable to contribute. Maybe not.
Todd, tell me this. If you had never known or suspected or noticed any difference in your wife's behavior, how do you know you would have been better off knowing? At this point you can only see it as a retrospective glimpse into what was going on. I'll bet you are probably more in tune and aware of your wife than my H is of me. That doesn't mean he loves me any less, he's just not quite as perceptive as you are. If you are all that you say you are, I cannot conceive of how your W could have possibly done this to you. I have to believe that you are all you say, I have no reason to doubt your veracity. Without a psychiatric diagnosis for your wife, there is absolutely no justification for her actions.
Your husband's perceptiveness is not the issue. The issue is honesty. He deserves to be told. All other rhetoric is meaningless.
When it finally dawned me me that my WW had been having an affair, the first thing I did was to attmpt to determine when it started. It was as a result of that process that I realized that her A had been going on for some time. I ignored the signs because I trusted my wife. When I did realize and accept that she was having an affair, her lies only made the sich worse.
Look FC, it is your decision what you do. But don't play games of logic and justification with yourself. You are keeping the secret to protect yourself and OM. That is exactly why my WW kept the secret. She wanted to D me badly but wouldn't do it because it would have uncovered her A. Plus, she knows me and knew what my reaction and attitude towards OM would be. She was protecting him. Can you guess how that makes me feel?
Your H deserves your honesty. My guess is that he knows more than you could ever guess.
Anyone know how get relief from burns? Does butter really work? I tried drinking some aloe lotion but that didn't help much
I recommend drinking tequila for burns.
Gemela is an expert on getting a suntan. When we first met, she suggested that I use either coca cola or beer to get a deep rich tan. I opted for beer. After six I fell asleep by the pool and all I got was sunburn. I complained later. She told me the beer was to be applied externally - not internally. I must have missed that part of the instructions.
I think you missed the part about my not asking for advice. Not once did I ask for any
FWIW, I do not believe that FC is here for advice. I think she is here to read but has never intended to solicit advice. (FWIW)
Pio, that is correct. She is advice resistent. But it does beg the question as to why she is here. What is her goal? That is what I am trying to uncover.
Todd I understand exactly what you are saying and if I didn't feel that our marriage was getting better then I might be forced to tell him. Until I see that we are going backwards instead of forward, I don't want to hurt him. One of the major differences is I didn't want to D my H. I didn't understand why I was acting as I was. I loved him and had planned to be faithful and stay married to him until death. He may suspect or know, but I honestly don't think he does.
I didn't want to be in an affair. I didn't want to be unfaithful, I wanted to understand why I was doing what I was doing. I think I have uncovered that and I am working on it as well as I can.
Above all, I do not want to be a problem for you or anyone else on this board, so perhaps it's best that I go back to lurking.
The comment you made about my keeping this secret to protect myself and OM is just not so. Frankly, I think it couldn't possibly be as hurtful to me or him as what I have been going through already has been. I think I reached the pinnacle of hurt ( self-inflicted) and I wouldn't be nearly as distressed as what I have already lived through. I am not protecting my OM, I honestly think if my H knew the circumstances that he would not be without a great deal of sympathy for OM. Om tried to act honorably during most of this ordeal. They both are pretty good men. I was the problem, not either of them.
Well, it is not like there are instructions on the beer cans. I just ate an entire stick of butter. No help whatsoever. I think I will hire a nurse and a maid. Or perhaps a nursemaid. Kill two birds with one stone.
Initially, I thought the heat from the iron burned me. But in retrospect, it was the steam. Well, okay Pio, not the steam but the vapor. Or maybe it was the steam. Let me do the broom test.
ooooh ooooh first email from DD in SF. Not one of her big group ones but here's the first on Americans.
Quote
Americans are really friendly and mega helpful so nothing to complain about there - sometimes a little over the top but that just makes us laugh - even our 7/11 guy told us jokes on the first day - crazy!
My goal is still as was stated in the first place. I have hurt so much and I identify with the hurt that is occurring around here. I thought maybe I could be of help. But I am beginning to think that it was a misplaced goal. Maybe after living with people like are described on here, perhaps, I seem too transparent to be true. But those have always been my motives and if it's not working then I need to quit. Because the last thing I want is to make any one of your situations worse.
My goal is still as was stated in the first place. I have hurt so much and I identify with the hurt that is occurring around here. I thought maybe I could be of help. But I am beginning to think that it was a misplaced goal. Maybe after living with people like are described on here, perhaps, I seem too transparent to be true. But those have always been my motives and if it's not working then I need to quit. Because the last thing I want is to make any one of your situations worse.
fc, it's important that you yourself are in some semblance of recovery before you try to help others and you are clearly NOT. Help yourself first and then you can help others.
Okay, I don't usually stay where I am not wanted. I am sorry if I caused a problem for any one of you. When I can walk on water, I will be back perhaps. I thought there were humans on this board. I had seen plenty of evidence that there were, but I guess I was wrong.
I evidently mistakenly thought I was doing better. I thought I was on the road to recovery. But contrary to that belief, I am perceived as a noxious influence here. I surely felt better, wonder how I could have been so wrong about how I was doing?? Just plain stupidity I guess.
I do not mean this to be ugly in any way, but Melody if you are happily recovered, I don't know if it's a place I want to be. YOu seem to be awfully mean and judgmental. Do you honestly think by being so combative that you help people who come here? I understand 2 x4's but there are limits and also empathy and common courtesy. Do you have a place where WW can sign up for having been chased off this board? If so, I guess you can consider me to be another notch in your belt.
Todd, to simplify everything. I think I just wanted to be a sympathetic ear, glean what I could from the discussions, and try to shed some light on the mindset of a WW. We are not all evil, some of us are merely stupid and naive. I am sorry for the offense that has been taken.
fc, I am sorry we have said some unpleasant things you didn't want to hear, but I don't know many people who think that lying and trickery and fraud are good practices in a marriage. Nor is that a sign of "recovery."
I think most can judge right from wrong and know that those practices are not only very "mean," but quite noxious. Folks here are perfectly willing to help you do the RIGHT THING, but you won't find support in trying to deceive your husband.
Not offering advice...just asking you to think about this (I am sure you have thought about it more than you'd like to but...) You were drawn here b/c of how some of the BS's have demonstrated stregnth, coping, perseverance and the desire to attempt to recover a marriage after infidelity. You are an intelligent woman with lots of life experience.
We don't know much about your sitch but my guess is that your husband is much stronger and capable then you give him credit for. Stress at work pales in comparsion to marital stress. You say you are now doing better in your M but it can never reach it's full potential in the path you are pursuing. I realize that we all have different obstacles and barriers that may prevent us from following the perfect sequence and/or utilizing all of the principles...at the times intended. Even if your spouse had a terminal illness I think it would be worth the risk to tell him a basic version of what has been happening; if he chooses to forgive you it will make your M even better than ever to have worked through this obstacle...isn't that what life is about...learning and growing from our mistakes.
If we aren't living proof of how people can overcome these obstacles...Todd with his brain tumor would be more than willing to R his M with wife if she were only honest...Pio is willing to deal with his home becoming a Shoe-a-rama if G would just come clean...I myself overcame a near fatal MVA with children without my spouses support or empathy and am still willing to try and R our M if he can be open and honest...you get the jist
Don't be afraid, you said you were ready for the 2X4's...I think that you are making yourself miserable by carrying this around...it can destroy you and your M without you even bringing it to light...just b/c your H hasn't verbally acknowledged "knowing" is no indication of how much he truly knows or possibly what he thinks...sometimes our images or ideas of what could be happening are FAR worse than reality...look at pool boy...seeing his photo actually helped Pio to realize what the competition was...a school crush basically
I am not trying to beat a dead horse...I actually posted about dead horses myself...I am just saying to think again from a new perspective...step out of your unique situation and look at things from the outside...easier or having less hurt is not better...we appreciate things that make us work harder, sacrifice more and challenge us. It is your choice to make and to live with but you will be living an illusion for the rest of your life if you take it to the grave with you...I don't think you will ever find peace in your M until you allow your H to be a partner in working through whatever issues led you to make the decisions you made.
FC, I'm not trying to bash you. I just wanted to present how it feels to have another person make choices for, to have that person take freedom of choice away. Then there is the humiliation factor. Not insignificant.
Being made a fool of because openness & honesty is difficult causes the unknowing party humiliation whether they are aware at that moment or not.
There were others who knew ex was involved with someone else, keep his secret & still interacted with me. I look back & feel the humiliation. I think of the time I met gf, after he moved out, but long before the D was final & I greeted her warmly because their affair was not admitted to. My children were there, it was no place to make a scene. Did I take the high road or was I duped?
In my case not only did ex's dishonesty prevent an attempt at a real recovery it took away my freedom choice because he did my choosing for me. He knew best he thought.
Melody, I am still stunned that you have not heard me say that I know this isn't the best way to handle this in general. I don't want or expect any support for what I am doing. MB has been invaluable to me through my reading it has helped me understand why I did what I did. I am not advocating my method for anyone else but me. I really would prefer it if i could do the radical honesty. This is the first and only time I have ever been dishonest with my H in my life. It's not my way of life. But in this case I feel it's necessary. Call it a justification, call it what you want, I am not trying to convince anyone it is the best way to mend a marriage.
It isn't a matter of not wanting to hear what MB have to offer. I have heard it all and read it all I very well know that the underlying reasons for these methods are the very best.
If you knew my particular situation and my H's personality, I think you might understand. I haven't wanted to post those things because of TMI. I just wanted to hang out and be a nice person, supportive of others if I could and learn what I could about all aspects of MB. I really have no hidden agenda.
From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.
Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.
But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.
It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.
It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.
It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.
After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.
Nams, I am not even sure that anyone perceived what OM and I had to be an affair. I haven't until very recently confided in anyone. And low and behold that person actually seems to understand that I was totally blindsided about my feelings and truly perplexed as to the cause. This is more about me than it is about my marriage. The problems I had are a symptom of my underlying problem not a problem with the marriage itself. Granted it's not perfect, but I have never thought it was right to expect to have a perfect marriage. When humans are involved, by definition things are not perfect.
No, unless it is an urgent sitch, he typically calls after hours, so prolly in a hour or two.
I did see red font starting a couple of hours ago. I rubbed butter in my eyes as someone suggested, but that did not help one bit. In fact, I see blurry now. Maybe I should use steam to melt the butter. Hmm....
This is more about me than it is about my marriage. The problems I had are a symptom of my underlying problem not a problem with the marriage itself.
fc, the cause most certainly is about you, but an affair is very much about a marriage. An affair is a devastating blow to a marriage and honesty is the only solution. Everyone is "blindsided" by feelings before an affair, but that never justifies an affair.
Melody, you still don't get it. I am not trying to justify anything. I don't feel I owe you or anyone else any explanations. I have to do what I feel is right for me. It may be the 1 case out of ten gillion that goes against the conventional wisdom. But until I can see that in my particular situation that it is the best, I will not do it. I am not even trying to argue the point.
I however, do not want to be berated here or anywhere else because I happen to disagree with you. I am a reasonably smart person, and mostly emotionally intact. I don't want to lose what I do have. I have worked hard to get where I am even though you in one sentence dismissed that I had made any progress at all. I am not going to let you tell me that I am not doing better, because I know I am.
Everyone is "blindsided" by feelings before an affair....
Melody I do not believe that. Say it all you want with a maximum of force and every other insulting way you want, but you will never make me believe that this is how everyone feels. There are too many instances of pure evil on this board for me to believe that. I do not think that all affairs begin innocently.
2much, I very much appreciate your rational approach to my sitch. I understand exactly what you are saying and at some time it may be possible for me to pursue the policy of radical honesty. Right now it is not.
Again I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but has it occurred to any of you that I am still married and reasonably happy. I have not had to go to the extreme measures that you all have had to go to. So far, I have a lot of hope for mending myself and my relationship. It's not the best but right now it's pretty good by comparison. No justification, just a rationalization for me keeping on a path that seems to be leading out of this morass. I am a firm believer in if what you are doing is working, then you keep on doing it. I am sure there are all sorts of theories of how to repair a marriage. MB seems to make the most sense, but is there no other way?? New things are discovered all the time. I may find that this will end in disaster, but I have to do what I think is correct for my situation.
I am not even saying that my solution is right. But for now I am experiencing success. I am not on a quest for perfection because I understand it is not possible.
It may be the 1 case out of ten gillion that goes against the conventional wisdom.
But it doesn't "go against the conventional wisdom" at all. There is no "wisdom" that advocates trickery and fraud and deceit. Anyone who does advocate those traits is certainly not "wise" but cruel and dishonest.
Quote
I don't want to lose what I do have. I have worked hard to get where I am even though you in one sentence dismissed that I had made any progress at all. I am not going to let you tell me that I am not doing better, because I know I am.
I don't consider it "progress" to live in a marriage based on a lie. That is not progress by most standards. It certainly is not "progress" for your husband. And cannot be in any way construed as "recovery." Honesty is the solution to adultery, not more lies.
Quote
]Everyone is "blindsided" by feelings before an affair....
Melody I do not believe that. Say it all you want with a maximum of force and every other insulting way you want, but you will never make me believe that this is how everyone feels. There are too many instances of pure evil on this board for me to believe that. I do not think that all affairs begin innocently.
Well, all affairs are evil, regardless of one's feelings about them. NO affair is "innocent." They are filthy, vile and putrid. But be assured that we hear the term "blindsided" every day around here; most affairs start that way. It doesn't justify them or make them any less filthy than the affair of a serial cheater. All affairs are the same; filthy, vile and putrid.
So far, I have a lot of hope for mending myself and my relationship. It's not the best but right now it's pretty good by comparison. No justification, just a rationalization for me keeping on a path that seems to be leading out of this morass.
No, you are not "mending" you marriage by deceiving your H, fc. That is a self serving illusion you are using to rationalize your continued deceit and fraud. Nothing will ever "mend" until you are truthful with your H. A marriage based on lies, deceit and fraud cannot possibly "mend."
It is the TRUTH that will "lead you out of this morass," fc, not more lies.
Quote
I am not even saying that my solution is right. But for now I am experiencing success.
No, you have only successfully deceived your H for now. But your marriage, that is based on fraud, is not successful. It is a sham.
Melody, I am not going to continue to give credence to you as a person who is smart, successful, or nice. It's a waste of my time to interact with you. You are so intent on hurling mud that you don't even actually understand what I am saying. I did not say that my way was conventional wisdom. I have said in about 4 different places that MB is the best way. Do you hear me now?????????
And I sure as He!! dont' think you are happily recovered. If you are the poster girl for MB, I don't want any part of it. You simply must be miserable. You need prayers. Lots of them. If you continue to be so holier than thou, it will be not very long before this attitude comes back to bite you. I NEVER want to act like you do and if it's evidence of your happiness, I will take misery in preference to your brand of happiness any day.
I don't care what you consider to be progress in my marriage. You are not in it. I am.
If you are concerned that telling your H about your affair might result in an outcome that is undesireable to you...you are correct.
It absolutely could.
Would you humor me a moment and address the reason why?
Free will and the ability to carry out decisions of our own choosing. The hallmark and right of adulthood.
By not disclosing this very RELEVENT information you refuse him the right to freely CHOOSE...you take away his choices...you control and manipulate him with lies.
Does this sound loving to you?
The clear and direct message being received by me in your posts is I will do what works for me EVEN if it is *at the expense* of my husband...as long as I am getting what I want...as long as MY world is not disrupted...all is well.
This is a very *selfish* way to conduct your life...you are operating on the premise that you are the only person who counts...the only person who gets power of veto...the only person who makes the decisions about BOTH of your lives.
This is not an issue of MB or method of recovery...it is an issue of dishonesty...disrespect...manipulation...and common decency...or the lack of it.
Melody, I am not going to continue to give credence to you as a person who is smart, successful, or nice. It's a waste of my time to interact with you. You are so intent on hurling mud that you don't even actually understand what I am saying.
fc, I am sorry you don't like what you hear, but the problem is that [censored] has a very short shelf life on this forum and just doesn't "work." Unfortunately, you probably won't find many who will believe that it is "progress" to deceive your H about your affair and trick him into believing you and the OM are "just good friends." Nor would anyone believe that a marriage based on fraud and deceit is a "good" marriage. That would be silly to believe any such thing, wouldn't it now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Melody, I am not going to continue to give credence to you as a person who is smart, successful, or nice.
Do you think its "nice" to manipulate and deceive your loved ones? Down here in Texas we call those folks rattlesnakes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> What do they call them in your part of the country?
Okay Noodle, you're right. I am worn out from all this today it's not worth it to me to undergo this, I didn't ask for any of it I made the mistake of being honest with Big K and it went from there.
I am a terrible, selfish person, I am dishonest, I disrespect my H, I have manipulated him and I have no common decency. Now are you happy? BTW there is no hope for me to recover my integrity, I never had any in the first place. I hopped into bed and slept with my OM, I never questioned the morality of it, I turned my back on a dying husband, I lied continuously, I still lie and I have perpetuated the affair to this very day. I have torn apart the very fabric of my family and i am not trying to fix any of my own problems. NOT. Just who in the world do you think I am? I am not any of the above. I am just a convenient person for to take your anger out on. I guess you have no appropriate person to take your bitterness out on. I am sorry for you. Why don't you and Melody open up a board for bitter women who aren't healed or happily married and think they are. Both of you need a dose of your own honesty. I have a very realistic take on my sitch. I am not bashing people who come here to learn. Nor do I say I am completly happy in my recovery or marriage. And I do not, above all, think I am the only one who has a right to an opinion.
I see that both of you have been here in excess of 5 years. It tells me that you are not moving forward with your own recoveries very well. I'd think by now, you'd be more interested in finding happiness than in bashing others.
No amount of foot stomping and posturing and speculation about my own recovery will change the fact that you are choosing to be a liar in an attempt to protect yourself from the consequences of your choices.
If you don't like it..if you can't look at your behavior without rationalizing it...change it to behavior that you CAN be proud of.
It is too bad you can't see that people are trying to help you understand that by confessing to your husband you have a chance to create a more intimate marriage than before your A; that you can live your life with more integrity that you are at present. I don't see how your perceive that as bashing.
Like I suggested earlier: Listen to the radio program from today. Click on the Marriage Builder's Radio Live button on the top right of the page.
I check the drawers next to the fridge...there is a smoke detector with a battery that needs to be replaced & that's what's been beeping. I wn't tell you for how long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. Ahhh.
OK Now that is flat out almost the most hilarious thing I have read on this thread.
Kiwi, I am admitting it. I am mea culpa'ing as fast as I can. I am also apologizing for the hurt that I brought to this thread, it was not my intent. I did not mean to invade anyone's safe haven, nor did I mean to make it an unsafe place. I answered a few questions truthfully and look where it got me. All I can say is I am sorry. I should have kept my mouth shut, I knew better but thought that I might be perceived as a sincere person. Obviously that's not going to happen.
Just so you will know Noodle, I never asked for help. i didn't want to reveal my situation because I knew that there would be bigots here who wouldn't understand. But I do want to make it clear that I have the highest respect for the MB principles and especially for a few of the people who are on this thread.
No, I never slept with anyone. I was a virgin when I entered this marriage and I have not had any type of physical relationship with anyone except my H. Period, end of story. That was sarcasm, I thought you all would have caught it.
I am proud to say that so far, my marriage has not sustained the kind of damage that most have around here. I am not proud of my behavior or of my solution and I am not an admirable person. I never professed to be any of the above. I merely professed to being human. I am sorry if it offends you. I was being honest and I am still being honest.
You all can have a field day. I have to go somewhere and I am sure that it will be the sport de jour to continue hashing this out. I am too tired to fight with any of you any more. This isn't why I came here and I didn't want to hurt anyone.
Okay, you can stick a fork in me I am done. I do not appreciate being called a rapist and do not feel that it applies to me. What a nice way to treat someone who came here looking to help and be helped. I didn't come here to fight with any of you. I have gotten immesurable help from this board until I began posting. Obviously for people like me, lurking is more helpful. I didn't ask for all this argument, I didn't start it, I responded to Big K's questions. I knew it would be opening a can of worms for me and I thought I was strong enough to take the criticism. But I never dreamed I would be called a rapist.
And Stef 20 be careful, if you don't do it exactly like they think you should, you will be branded as a rapist or something worse perhaps.
Melody I tried to respond in a reasonable way to you, but it got nasty and ugly. Surely you are better than that.
See now FC - I do not appreciate this at all. This is an attack on this group and is very disrespectful.
We all offer advice here - you get what you pay for. Stef, for her part, has to weigh the advice she receives but at the end of the day it is her decision whether or not to act on it. Stef has followed the advice for the most part and she is changing and her husband is responding. She will never get her [censored] kicked for not doing EXACTLY what anyone tells her and I resent your implications otherwise.
For my part, I chose not to engage with you on the issues raised by others because it seemed to me you were pretty closed minded about doing what anyone told you contrary to the best available MB advice. I don't throw pearls before swine - if I know someone will not listen, I am not going to waste my time with them by telling them what they already KNOW they should do but steadfastly REFUSE to do.
In a nutshell, it is my contention, and I have posted such here many times, that without NC 100% inviolable NC, recovery from an affair is impossible. Not telling your husband is a violation of Radical Honesty. You are wrong FC IMO but it doesn't do me or you any good by my saying it.
I don't know if indeed you are Sarie/Blessed Time/IWRA or any of her other nicks. Time will tell.
I don't want to fight Big K. I guess I just don't understand what is expected around here. I didn't ask for advice, I was learning plenty without causing problems for everyone. I am sorry if you think that I was attacking the group. I really didn't intend to be doing that. I was just trying to defend myself. Obviously, there is no defense for my behavior according to everyone around here.
I just felt that such an aggressive approach wasn't helpful to me and I didn't appreciate being called names.
I will admit that i am a swine, a rattlesnake and every other insulting appelation that you all can think of and I will also say that the principles of MB are pearls. What more can you ask of me?
there's no point in causing this much trouble for anyone on this board.
Hi. Is anyone there to give me advice? I went through WH cell phone bill of September last night and I found 5 phone calls to OW (NC since June, he was saying). I confronted him. he said it was just business that was unfinished and after "fight" promised to send another NC letter and not be in touch with OW. Now I saw that in August he was also calling her. How can he lie so much? Our recovery was going pretty OK. Or I guess not. I don't know how to handle it. Please help. Should I tell him it's over? What should I do?
Hi. Is anyone there to give me advice? I went through WH cell phone bill of September last night and I found 5 phone calls to OW (NC since June, he was saying). I confronted him. he said it was just business that was unfinished and after "fight" promised to send another NC letter and not be in touch with OW. Now I saw that in August he was also calling her. How can he lie so much? Our recovery was going pretty OK. Or I guess not. I don't know how to handle it. Please help. Should I tell him it's over? What should I do?
How can you say there's NC if he is phoning her? Clearly NC is not established and the affair is still active.
Do you have a thread where you have posted your situation?
I am proud to say that so far, my marriage has not sustained the kind of damage that most have around here. I am not proud of my behavior or of my solution and I am not an admirable person. I never professed to be any of the above. I merely professed to being human. I am sorry if it offends you. I was being honest and I am still being honest.
We are ALL human here but that is no excuse to deceive your husband. You will be "honest" with perfect strangers on the internet, but not with the one you vowed to love, cherish and honor? How bizarre that you believe there is any virtue in being "honest" about lying, fraud, deceit and manipulation. "Honesty" justifies none of that.
Honestly, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I don't know why you came here except to gloat to decent people about how you have had a filthy affair and continue to lie to your H to this day about it; about how you strive to fool him into thinking you are just "friends" so you can maintain contact with him. We heard all about how hard you work to keep him in a state of deception. No remorse, no nothing.
And you call us the bad guys for pointing this out? hmmmmmmmmmmm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Hi BigK I thought there was nc. I was asking almost every week. We are in MC. I don't know where my thread is anymore. I feel so horrible I cannot think clearly also. He is coming home now. I don't know how to handle that. I thought this step was over (the OW).
I very well know that is a figure of speech. It emanates from a Bible verse. I am just saying that I acknowledge that you felt telling me anything would be as "casting pearls before swine." IOW you knew there was no point. I didn't mean to represent you as approving of my situation. And I don't think I ever alluded to your approval, just your acceptance.
I don't know why I am even trying to respond. I am much more upset than I have been in months. I have cancelled my engagement for tonight, I couldn't concentrate after all this anyway. I thought I was getting better, I admired the attitude on this board, I thought the people here were doing really well in spite of horrendous situations. I was really awestruck by Todd in particular. I have nothing but the highest admiration for how he has handled his situation. Pio has great insight and wit and he's a wonderful person and an even better Dad. Kiwi I really don't know well and don't know her story well. Melody, I feel like stomped on me with both feet. After Larousse started in on me this morning, I felt like the person bleeding with a feeding frenzy of sharks around me. It doesn't matter how I felt and I shouldn't have said another word. All I can say is I am sorry I disrupted the peaceful and easy good healing atmosphere around here. That is the last thing I wanted to do. I feel it's very healthy for all concerned.
Melody, I would be happy to take this to a private e-mail with you so I can explain a little to you. But I don't want to cause further hurt here. Nor do I want to put too much information out on the net.
fc, I think if you will be open minded about what has happened here today, you will see that the real reason you are upset is because folks said some very unpleasant truths that you can't bear to hear. The reason it is so disturbing to you is because deep down you know it is true. You have built a house of lies in order to justify the unjustifible in order to live with what you have done.
I very well know the unpleasant feelings you are feeling right now. I too felt the same thing when I joined AA and quickly discovered that my web of lies and excuses would not work there. I could not fool them and because of that, I could no longer fool myself. I could no longer get away with bullshitting myself or anyone there. I was able to see how ridiculous I looked through the eyes of sane, RECOVERED people.
And that is what is happening to you today, fc. Your excuses and rationalizations just don't work here. And that makes you very angry. But, you are in the company of ppl who are too decent to accomodate the lies and excuses of their fellow humans.
Just know that you will get all the help in the world here for doing the right thing. We are here and willing to help you be truthful and honest with your H.
But no one here is going to support your deceitful, fraudulent agenda. We are not going to help you hurt your husband or even pretend like that is ok. It's not ok, fc. We are here when you decide to do the RIGHT THING.
Hi BigK I thought there was nc. I was asking almost every week. We are in MC. I don't know where my thread is anymore. I feel so horrible I cannot think clearly also. He is coming home now. I don't know how to handle that. I thought this step was over (the OW).
WOW. I think you should start your own thread about this Estrela - you need advice from the general MB community about this.
Off the top of my head, your husband needs to understand there are consequences for violating your boundaries - do you have boundaries?
I would want to know if you have done an effective Plan A - is your husband cake eating? I would be looking at Plan B - off the top of my head - more details would be great so you can get the best advice. Post a new thread. Detail your situation.
I am upset Melody because there are things that are very important to my situation that i cannot post about. If I could I think you might understand where I am coming from. My hands are tied by my situation. If I could be truthful with my spouse this would have all been a non event a long time ago. He would understand, but i cannot risk hurting him for many reasons, having absolutely nothing to do with me. I am a strong person and I could take any consequence, it is him that I am thinking of. I know you don't believe that, but I can not convince you without TMI for a public board. And that's fine. I understand why you feel as you do. And under any other circumstances I would gladly confess all to H. and yes it would be an immense help in my and our recovery.
But more than anything else, I am upset because I seemed to have upset all of the people on this board. That was never my intent. I am sorry that I have and I don't know how to make it any clearer.
I am not mainting a lie so I can have contact with OM, I am maintaining it so my H won't be hurt. It would be much easier for me if I could have NC.
I am not mainting a lie so I can have contact with OM, I am maintaining it so my H won't be hurt. It would be much easier for me if I could have NC.
Why don't you stop while you are behind, fc? This is a silly rationalization that no one believes. Your H was "hurt" when you had an affair. And your H is further hurt by your continued deceit. You are not "protecting" him with your charade. If you were ever really concerned about "hurting" your H, you would not have had the affair. Honesty is the SOLUTION to infidelity, not more lies. Please just stop.
FC, I would be interested to know what your extenuating circumstances are.
I risked losing my beloved H of 32 years and my adored adult children when I confessed. To be honest, I don't think there are more extenuating circumstances than that. I didn't want to hurt him or them either. No one does. I hid behind that when I had recent (April this year) contact with the OM. Well, in reality the truth (thanks again Mel <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) set us free.
Okay I'll stop. But just let me say this one thing. For health reasons he has become impotent and I don't want him thinking my affair had anything to do with his impotency. That would be the first conclusion he would jump to and it would difficult to dissuade him of that. It had to do with my poor self esteem, nothing more nothing less. I had no physical affair, I offered emotional support to someone who really needed it and I was in too deep before i even knew what hit me.
So if I tell him I became emotionally involved with some one he won't think it's his fault???? Sure.
In addition, because of his profession he refuses to take AD's and this would just be the icing on the cake.
I know it's not the best solution, but it's the best one I can come up with.
Okay I'll stop. But just let me say this one thing. For health reasons he has become impotent and I don't want him thinking my affair had anything to do with his impotency. That would be the first conclusion he would jump to and it would difficult to dissuade him of that. It had to do with my poor self esteem, nothing more nothing less. I had no physical affair, I offered emotional support to someone who really needed it and I was in too deep before i even knew what hit me.
So if I tell him I became emotionally involved with some one he won't think it's his fault???? Sure.
In addition, because of his profession he refuses to take AD's and this would just be the icing on the cake.
I know it's not the best solution, but it's the best one I can come up with.
Nothing here is a valid reason to conintue to lie to him. He will be very hurt when you tell him, but he is man enough to know the truth. You owe him that, fc. These are facts about his life to which he has a RIGHT to know, fc.
Well then I might have a suicide on my hands. It might be his choice to continue not to take AD's and this might be the straw that broke the camel's back. That is my rationale in a nutshell. He has lived in a very depressed state because of unrelated professional problems for the last 10 years. I can't take the chance.
Well then I might have a suicide on my hands. It might be his choice to continue not to take AD's and this might be the straw that broke the camel's back. That is my rationale in a nutshell. He has lived in a very depressed state because of unrelated professional problems for the last 10 years. I can't take the chance.
Call it what you want it is the truth and nothing but. The entire family wishes he would seek professional help for his depression, but he will not do it. I cannot make him want to be better and I certainly don't want to do anything to make him worse.
My friend told me when I hadn't told Rob about the A that Rob may well get so down when he heard about my A that he would kill himself. She said, you know he adores you, this may be the last straw especially as he's been so depressed.
Call it what you want it is the truth and nothing but. The entire family wishes he would seek professional help for his depression, but he will not do it. I cannot make him want to be better and I certainly don't want to do anything to make him worse.
You HAVE made it worse by having an affair, so spare me the rationalizations. It is NOT the truth that he "will commit suicide," that is an exaggerated hypothetical that you have manufactured as an excuse to continue to defraud him. Try again.
TRUTH is the solution, fc, not more lies. Your H senses something is very wrong and can't quite put his finger on it. He is probably starting to think he must be CRAZY because he can't validate his suspicions. I would wager this subterfuge is contributing to his depression.
I just wanted to present how it feels to have another person make choices for, to have that person take freedom of choice away.
It's funny because I do exactly that for the DD's all the time. I don't tell them the whole truth about many things in order to get them to do what I want them to do without a big fuss. I think they are too young to be given all the facts and then POJA a decision. I have never done that with gemela. Sometimes I wish I had and I was severely tempted. She didn't really need to know the whole truth because the outcome was unavoidable but I told her anyway.
All I know is I don't want a marriage based on an illusion. I only want to stay married of that is what gemela truly wants. I don't want to be second choice. I can do much better than that. Being alone is better than that.
I became a BS because I was lied to. Gemela's affair didn't happen as a ONS. Every step of the way she could have been honest with me and possibly even avoided the whole thing. Maybe not. I agree with Todd (you have no idea how much that hurts to say!) in that honesty is priority one right now in my sitch.
Done, I am serious those are my reasons and my whole family knows that he is in a fragile state. I am not going to be the one to push him over the edge. You see, I love him. Believe it or not. I would like nothing better than to be able to tell him and not have to worry that it would precipitate a horrendous event for him. But we have all pleaded with him for years to seek help and he refuses. I know my H like the back of my hand. I have know him for 46 years and been married to him for 37 of those years. We have a wonderful family, the kids are so good and the grandkids are a delight, why would I want to ruin all that for him or them. It's not me I am so concerned about. I would obviously be devastated if he died by his own hand upset about something I did. But i don't want to rob anyone in our family of what we have managed to have. All for my lousy self-esteem. I don't think so. And even though it sounds awful to you, it's pretty good by most people's standards.
Done, I am serious those are my reasons and my whole family knows that he is in a fragile state. I am not going to be the one to push him over the edge. You see, I love him. Believe it or not. I would like nothing better than to be able to tell him and not have to worry that it would precipitate a horrendous event for him. But we have all pleaded with him for years to seek help and he refuses. I know my H like the back of my hand. I have know him for 46 years and been married to him for 37 of those years. We have a wonderful family, the kids are so good and the grandkids are a delight, why would I want to ruin all that for him or them. It's not me I am so concerned about. I would obviously be devastated if he died by his own hand upset about something I did. But i don't want to rob anyone in our family of what we have managed to have. All for my lousy self-esteem. I don't think so. And even though it sounds awful to you, it's pretty good by most people's standards.
Those are just more excuses for cruelty. I have been here for 5 years and have yet to hear of a BS who tried to commit suicide when told the truth. You are doing nothing more than manufacturing excuses. Rather, they were very grateful for the truth because it allowed them to validate their suspicions and save their marriage or end it if they chose.
You are denying your H the right to make that choice about his own life, fc. You are manipulating him into staying married to you based on a lie. That is not LOVE. No wonder he is depressed.
You are not being honest and you not being loving to your H, fc. I am convinced you are only interested in saving your [censored], because you are not truly interested in your H's best interest, that much is clear. Try again.
Now I saw that in August he was also calling her. How can he lie so much? Our recovery was going pretty OK. Or I guess not. I don't know how to handle it. Please help. Should I tell him it's over? What should I do?
As it turns out, I have quite a lot of experience with this. Do you want it to be over? gemela keep up her calls to OM on and off for a long time (5 months at least). I was advised to not make an issue out of it. It is important that NC be established but you cannot force it. Don't make any rash decision and definitely don't get in a fight about it.
I think most WS's violate NC and especially given the opportunity. It doesn't mean your M is over. Only you decide that.
You're right Pio. But why make others hurt. I feel that would be very selfish of me.
More bullcrap. The truth does not hurt, but AFFAIRS AND LIES do hurt. Truth is the SOLUTION to adultery, not more lies.
Just imagine that your neighbor's bookkeeper was embezzling money from him. Would not tell the neighbor because it might "hurt him?"
Now, isn't that silly? Please stop pretending like you are showing that you "care" by lying to him. There is nothing "caring" about lies, trickery and FRAUD.
Is WH only limited to phone calls or is he still taking business trips and vacations with OW? Have you become a full partner yet?
You want your WH to choose you. My suggestion is to keep doing what you are doing. Affairs die. You exposed. I approached NC violation in several ways (because it happened several times).
1) bag packing. Almost kicked her out of the house 2) big fight - lots of DJ's and LB's 3) shame - told her if she was that weak, I would dial the phone for her and she could call OM in front of her children. 4) tell her I knew about that calls and told her they were her choice to make but that they hurt me very much but do so in a very calm manner. 5) do absolutely nothing.
I think #4 is the best overall strategy. Remember that A's like secrecy and danger. Remove the excitement of the A. Fights and drama add to the excitement. When they get caught and nothing happens, it is a big letdown for them IMO.
No more excuses, no more tries. That is the complete unvarnished truth if it's not good enough then it's not good enough.
He is depressed for many other reasons. Contrary to what you believe that is also the truth. It's not new and so far has been intractable because he refuses treatment. He is a very stubborn man. I wish it weren't so, but it is. I wish it weren't so because he could feel so much better. I hate seeing him feel badly.
Kiwi, it's patently obvious.
I am not worried about my [censored]. I would be happier if I didn't have to contend with his depression. However, I do and I have for a long time. I am doing the best I can under the circumstances. Maybe you can liken it to living with an alcoholic who refuses to do anything about it. Can you relate to that?? I am not blaming him, I am merely saying that I am not about to do anything to make the situation worse.
fc, lying by omission is still lying...whether or not your husband is gravely ill or not. He has a right to know the truth about his own life. It is disrespectful and selfish to not tell him, IMO.
nurse, maid and nursemaid - medical attention, house cleaning and SF all in one bundle.
Pio!!!!
I never said a word about SF. I need a maid to keep me from eating decayed meat. I apparently need a nurse to keep butter out of my eyes. No mention of SF.
No more excuses, no more tries. That is the complete unvarnished truth if it's not good enough then it's not good enough.
He is depressed for many other reasons. Contrary to what you believe that is also the truth. It's not new and so far has been intractable because he refuses treatment. He is a very stubborn man. I wish it weren't so, but it is. I wish it weren't so because he could feel so much better. I hate seeing him feel badly.
I don't disbelieve you that he is depressed, but it is irrelevent. Being depressed does not disqualify one from knowing the truth about their own life. Depressed people can handle the truth about thier own lives. And I suspect having a marriage that is based on fraud and illusions is contributing to it.
His depression does not entitle you to lie, defraud and cheat on him. Not telling this man the truth about your affair is cruel and manipulative, fc. And it sure does not indicate that you love him, just the opposite.
Your H needs to know the truth so he can protect himself from you, fc. You are DANGEROUS to him and completely unqualified to decide what is in his best interest. He might decide to leave the marriage and that is only his decision to make. You have no right to deny him that choice, jc.
Kiwi, sometimes you have to do things that on the surface have very little justification. Real life is messy and can be incredibly complicated. I am doing damage control. When I say why hurt others I mean why risk my family's father committing suicide? When, if I can gut it through this eventually we may be able to make a break through and get him to seek help.
I am truly sincere in my fears and I would appreciate it if I could be considered something else besides a liar. I am a liar but not for the reasons you all think.
I am not worried about my [censored]. I would be happier if I didn't have to contend with his depression. However, I do and I have for a long time. I am doing the best I can under the circumstances. Maybe you can liken it to living with an alcoholic who refuses to do anything about it. Can you relate to that?? I am not blaming him, I am merely saying that I am not about to do anything to make the situation worse.
More lies. You made the situation worse by having an affair and are making it worse EVEN TODAY with your continued lies and fraud. More lies will not make the situation better. Only the TRUTH will achieve that.
Every day that you do not tell your H is another lie added to the list. Another day that you are making the situation "worse."
I don't disbelieve you that he is depressed, but it is irrelevent. Being depressed does not disqualify one from knowing the truth about their own life. Depressed people can handle the truth about thier own lives.
I guess that's why so many depressed people do so well. A lot of them end up in the morgue.
I am doing damage control. When I say why hurt others I mean why risk my family's father committing suicide? When, if I can gut it through this eventually we may be able to make a break through and get him to seek help.
No, you are not doing damage control. You are adding to the damage with your continued lies. Your H is depressed and deserves to know the truth. The "risk of suicide" is only your manufactured excuse to avoid doing the right thing. No one is fooled by this, fc.
Quote
I am truly sincere in my fears and I would appreciate it if I could be considered something else besides a liar. I am a liar but not for the reasons you all think.
Oh, I see. You only lie for the good of all mankind? And it just happens to coincide with your self serving agenda to cover your sorry [censored]. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Fine Melody. Find someone else to chew on. I have bled all over this bb all day long. I am exhausted, distressed that I have upset every one and all for this.
fc, I have not read all the replies to you but wanted to give you my perspective. I had an A about 10 years ago. It lasted about two years and I ended it because I realized I wanted my M to work and still loved my H. The problem was I was "afraid" to tell my H. I thought we could recover and he would never have to know what I had done to him. We went to MC and things got better BUT I had this secret eating away at me and the secret kept me from allowing myself to be truly intimate with my H. I couldn't risk it because my secret might slip out. Over the years I found many convenient excuses not to tell him. I was pregnant, then our son became ill, then he had an A and then another A... Finally someone did the telling for me. He was crushed, more by my deception than even by the A.
So now, we are truly in recovery from his affairs and mine plus I had the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders. I do not recommend taking this secret "to the grave". I hope and pray you will give your H the chance to know the truth.
Am oxymoron is something that is mutually exclusive by definition - like military intelligence. A paradox are the twosome you often run into on the golf course on Wednesday morning.
Is WH only limited to phone calls or is he still taking business trips and vacations with OW? Have you become a full partner yet?
Hi Pio, I am back. DDs are sleeping and I already finished talk with H. I was thinking in following bigk advice and start a post but I like this one so... Update: since june, we've been having dates 2x a week, spending every weekend together as a family, we traveled together (just two of us), and he's pretty much either at home or working (no late late hours anymore or business trips). So I am pretty sure there is no more A. HOWEVER, he's been telling me he was not talking to her anymore, so when I found the record of the calls it was a big painful lie that hurt me. Anyway, we just had a long talk now. I explained to him why he cannot talk to her anymore, even if it is just a couple of times a month, and just about business. I read through Surviving an Affair to him. If he got it this time? I hope so. I guess I was not ready for another lie, but the thing is each time it happens we go a little deeper. So in the end I think there is hope. I want this M to work. I am working hard at it. But I was very clear to him that NC and no more lies are kind of basic. He told me also that he sees now how opportunistic she is and he told me he has no respect for her anymore (nor any other feelings). Well, I guess I am more relaxed now. How are you doing?
I have been in that position. I think the crisis was yours - not his. I know from experience.
I got some great advice from bigger once (many times actually) and he asked me what I would do if I found that gemela had broken NC again. He told me to ignore it. You have what is important. You have WH back with you. You have him in a place where you can work on your M and hopefully get to recovery. While phone calls hurt you, they probably hurt him too. It is okay to tell him how they make you feel but don't go beyond that. You said:
Quote
I explained to him why he cannot talk to her anymore, even if it is just a couple of times a month
You cannot control WH's behavior. If he chooses to talk to her, he will. You can explain to him that calling her is a violation of NC and that it will not allow the A to end but, beyond that, you can't dictate anything to him.
So I want to pass along the favor that bigger did for me. Ask yourself what you will do the next time you discover that WH is talking to OW. Think about it because I guarantee it will happen. If you are mentally prepared for it and have your response already considered, it will go very well for you.
I am not saying your M is over if he calls her again. On the contrary. Be prepared and it will help you be strong and fair and the calls won't derail your good work.
Oh my! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I think I tried to show in my way why lies are bad, disrepectful & manipulative. FC, I hope you find peace & you give your H the respect he deserves to find peace as well.
It took so long to catch up on this thread I have no time to post. Must read & get beauty sleep. Pio, maybe you should add beauty sleep to your regimen of body improvements.
Todd, how's things? Can't get the Christy Brinkley cheeks stuck on a blond man with burns out of my mind. Oh, & scabs on the head too. Still, you're a sweet heart.
Kiwi, remind your daughter you have American friends here at TKO who might be sensitive to harsh comments about our proclivities. Mostly we mean well.
Hey luna, hey larousse, bigK, melody ALL TKO group.
The dog is doing well. She has given up her hiding places & is back in the main living areas of the house. She's still not quite back to her regular eating habits. My youngest was SO pleased when he came home from school today to find her out & about he practically cried with relief. He's prone to crying.
The beeping is over! I wonder if I'll sleep better. I didn't manage to get all the million chores done today as I'd intended but the beep & the dog were biggies.
Does it smell like a beauty parlor in here or is it just me?
ML, as always, I admire your passion. I wonder what is wrong with me right now. Rhetorical question BTW so don't answer. I'm going to the garage to look at tools.
MB is (I think) about building strong, successful, happy marriages. Most people don't have those and have no clue they don't. Some recognize they don't but, for whatever reason, accept the compromise. FC has clearly decided to compromise on M and is happy with that decision. From my POV it makes me very sad for her. She lives in a place where she has to see the one she loves on a regular basis and has to live with the one she doesn't out of personal obligation or duty.
I can't imagine the ****** I would be in if I had to live the rest of my life with gemela if I didn't love her. FC is a much stronger person than I am. I do respect that.
I don't doubt that she has love for her H. Something about her sitch that seemed strange. They broke off the A because OM met, fell in love with and married another person. Did he do that out of a sense of moral duty to place an obstacle between himself and FC or is he really in love with his W and, if so, that must hurt FC even more.
There is no question of what I think FC should do. No need to repeat it because ML surely covered all the bases. I am just sad for FC. And, to quote Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that".
Pio, Thanks for the advice. It is true, I want to control him, and I want him to stop talking to her and lying to me. OK, maybe I cannot control him.He said that phone calls are gradually diminishing and will fade away in time. After some pressure, he agreed to send another NC letter. I hope he will keep it this time. But I will make the effort to think about reacting less reactively next time. Why is it that the BS has to do almost all the hard work to save the M!??
They broke off the A because OM met, fell in love with and married another person.
I don't like to keep going on about this but that is Sarie's story completely. Plus being 37 years married, plus having an H in ill health, plus being a nurse aide or something medical.
Pio, I can picture him. He's very fastidious, he wears a nice clean white t shirt, smart, pressed jeans, black loafers and he walks with an ever so slight mince.
They broke off the A because OM met, fell in love with and married another person.
I don't like to keep going on about this but that is Sarie's story completely. Plus being 37 years married, plus having an H in ill health, plus being a nurse aide or something medical.
my thoughts exactly. Along with the same callousness towards the victim.
Todd, you have obviously never seen an Australian King Prawn.
Darn it, BigK, I have to admit there's nothing nicer or tastier or BIGGER.
Assuming that the Aus. King Prawn is large, then it makes the oxymoron even better. Around these parts, typcal shrimp weigh 4 lbs. Then there are the larger varieties.
It is true, I want to control him, and I want him to stop talking to her and lying to me. OK, maybe I cannot control him.He said that phone calls are gradually diminishing and will fade away in time. After some pressure, he agreed to send another NC letter. I hope he will keep it this time. But I will make the effort to think about reacting less reactively next time.
FWIW I believe him. They will get bored with the calls in time.
Another NC letter is a good idea. Do it.
Quote
Why is it that the BS has to do almost all the hard work to save the M!??
Because the WS doesn't want the M?? Helloooo??? Anybody home???
estrela,
The balance will shift in time. If WH does come back to you and wants to R, I suspect you will see HIM begging to keep the M. Right now you have to be the guide. You lead the way. Why? Because you are the only one in the relationship that is not a wimp. It is far easier to get a D. It is much harder to try to salvage the M. Or, as AdrianC said, "Plan A sucks!". But I've told you that before.
Calm down, be patient and think to the longer goal and don't let a few phone calls kill your chance at R.
Todd, how's things? Can't get the Christy Brinkley cheeks stuck on a blond man with burns out of my mind. Oh, & scabs on the head too. Still, you're a sweet heart.
Can you believe that she married Billy Joel? What was she thinking?
And don't forget the butter in my eyes. I may look funny but I sure do smell good! Of course it is drawn butter now after the steam. What does drawn butter mean? Anyway?
I'm still not Sarie, but if she's living the same nightmare that i am I feel for her. I didn't think anyone else was stupid enough to do what I have done.
If I was trying to make you think I wasn't Sarie, why would I tell the very same story as she did?
I really am not her and don't know anything about her.
I have a slight vent to get off my cheeks. Why is it that the announcers for nature shows are all liberal bedwetters?
I just sat through a show about wildlife that featured Black Mambas. A baby Black Mamba left the egg and killed and ate a mouse. The announcer pined: oh, the parents would be so proud if they had witnessed their offspring eat its first warm meal.
Now, is it me or do snakes really have pride? I don't think so.
Sorry Kiwi, I think he hung the moon. He has yet to disappoint me with his intellect. And his wit is a very rare quality. so is Todd's even if he is changing the subject to black mambas instead of rattlesnakes.
And thanks for believing me. Pio has the situation summed up correctly. Except I really do love my H and I want to improve things for both him and me.
I am sorry if i have depressed both Pio and Todd. I really had no intention of doing that. I will not say anything more about my situation or feelings.
That's why I've arranged for the nice young man "Butch" to be Todd's nursemaid.
Butch was not hired BTW.
I found a nurse and would post her picture but I think it is against the forum rules so rather than risk getting banned from my fourth online community, I will keep the pic to myself.
Working on a maid now. Properly called a housekeeper I am told by the service.
So, this has been an interesting day/evening in the home of TKO...
FC: I don't know if you're still around, but if you don't believe in the principles of MB and aren't going to follow it or the advice given, why are you here??? I asked you that earlier and 2much posted to you almost the exact same thing that I did earlier today.
You can't really help any of us if you don't believe in what we believe in or in what we're doing or at least done it! BigK is right, and it took me awhile to follow the advice I was given, but at the same time, I know that if I don't, I'm not going to be harassed or shunned or called any kind of name. I'm still going to be supported because we're all friends here and that's what friends do. We all have our reasons for following or not following advice, but, again, as I also pointed out earlier (as did KiwiJ), this is our safe place. I love TKO and everyone here, but today was not a safe place for us. It was a stressful and not-so-safe place today and we all have more than enough of that in our "real" lives to go around. I'm sorry if you felt you were attacked today, but everyone gave you awesome advice and all you wanted to do was make up excuses as to why you couldn't/wouldn't follow it. As far as not asking for advice goes, you asked for it when you started posting. We're not here to "mind our own business".
I think the ones who are recovered should be the ones to stick around and give us "newbies" the advice we need to get through this. Obviously what they did worked, and I think it's awesome they stuck around to share what works. This would have been a he!! of a lot harder to go through without this forum here for me. This is just my take on this, and I hope other posters will back me up, or tell me if I'm wrong. I don't mean any disrespect and I'm sorry for you if you're going to take it as such.
I love TKO and everyone here, but today was not a safe place for us. It was a stressful and not-so-safe place today and we all have more than enough of that in our "real" lives to go around
Stef, you are maturing before our very eyes.
It's wonderful to see. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sorry to disappoint you FC but you have not influenced me one way or the other. I actually believe you are more typical of a WW/FWW. ToddAC and I argue this a lot - way before we ever heard of you.
I'm confused. Shouldn't that be "anthropomorphise" with an "s"? Or do ypu people just pick and choose what words to change? Very confusing to the rest of us who actually speak English.
FC is yet to totally show her true colours possibly. When she starts praising OM/OW we will know if she is a new incarnation of a old poster with multiple ID's. Like I said, time will tell.
Sorry to disappoint you FC but you have not influenced me one way or the other. I actually believe you are more typical of a WW/FWW. ToddAC and I argue this a lot - way before we ever heard of you.
You can't really help any of us if you don't believe in what we believe in or in what we're doing or at least done it!
I have to disagree with this. I think FC is giving me insight into the mind of my WW in her own way. Nobody says MB is for the successful and the newly betrayed to be helped by them. We run the spectrum. It is give and take. Anyway, I like hearing FC's perspective because, to be quite honest, I hear a lot about the FWW who now realizes she was insane and will do anything for her M and is totally in love with BH and I just don't always buy it. I'm not calling anyone a liar. It is just that I was blindsided by the one closest to me. Maybe I have trust issues now. But sometimes I think people post on MB just to conform. They end up deceiving themselves. Excuse me for pointing fingers but Suzet with a star was exactly that way. I won't repeat her story but it is well documented.
FC presents the exact dilemma all BS's face. We wonder whether WS comes back to the M out of desire or necessity. The WS is clearly a proven liar. Why can't they be lying about wanting the M?
I don't mean this to sound harsh although I think it is coming out that way. I hope FC sticks around. I am certainly not going to put much creedence in her marriage saving advice but I am very interested in her perspective on the thought processes of the wayward side.
Quiet honestly I have often been tempted to surf the TOW site but I have been afraid because I have seen what it does to Stan-ley when he spends too much time there.
Well I got tired of the owl, the moustache, the whatever so I decided to post a more recent photo. Here is me today cutting and cleaning. hen we went through the storage, I found a bunch of old running clothes and ... well ... what can I say. I figure it Rob can do it, I can do it. This is in honor of Rob.
But sometimes I think people post on MB just to conform. They end up deceiving themselves. Excuse me for pointing fingers but Suzet with a star was exactly that way.
Well Pio, I'm glad to see you think I'm not like this anymore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Pio, it doesn't matter how much heavy manly tool equipment you have hanging off you - you are wearing GIRL'S shorts.
Sorry. Back in the early 80's those shorts were all the rage and the are in fact men's jogging shorts. I also have fluorescent green and orange. I don't wear any of them any more though. I do think that all fashion trends are cyclic. They'll be back PRETTY soon.
I bought 29 new light bulbs and have replaced every single burned out light bulb in the house. I realized after I got home that 10 of the light bulbs were 230V. I threw them away. I have one light bulb left. The DDs each has a new remote control light dimmer in her room and I took one of the old dimmers and put it in the maid's room so she can dim her lights too. Now I have to make lunch.
Well I have 18 minutes and 47 seconds before the buzzer goes off and lunch is ready. DDs are outside and I am sitting and watching TV...for 18 minutes and 13 more seconds.
Maybe along with your other supplies, you should pick up some Midol, too, for those extra-tension headaches. Might come in handy... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I was noticing earlier that MB always replaces the word he!! with 6 stars. If I think of that in terms of the Michelin rating, why does MB rate he!! so highly? I admit I have thought at times that it must be far better than what WW is putting me through but 6 stars seems over the top. I think I would like it better if MB used something besides stars. JMO.
I’ve discovered something interesting today. I wanted to replace the * after my name with something else (I’m tired of the *), and then I received the following message:
You can only have alphanumeric characters in your display name. Special characters are not allowed because this allows users to spoof other display names. You may use the _ character to represent a space.
Now I’m Suzet with a _ and I will not be allowed to replace it with any other non-alphanumeric character again, so I'll have to stick with the _! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (Actually I would have preferred to have NO symbol after my screen name at all, but since that screen name already exist (the previous one of which I’ve lost the password) it is not an option.
Actually I think it makes you more human and FAR more interesting. It suits you. Elegant but understated.
I like it…”elegant but understated & human”… Yes, these words describe me well! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You know, when I have first chosen the * I always thought of it as an asterisk and not a star, bust since you’ve started to call me ”Suzet with a star” I felt that I don’t deserve a star (and what it represents) after my name… Part of the reason I’ve decided to change the * to something else! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I am in a time crunch but had to post to comment about the photo...an image that I will most likely never be able to think about Pio without the yardman running gear popping into my mind...you MUST post another photo some time in the future so that I can overwrite the memory on that one...it is way to amusing...I great lifter upper and much needed respite from all of this serious infidelity posting that has been happening.
Yes Pio... We were in the process of starting with the infertility treatment just before my H was unfairly dismissed in Jan ’04. We had to put everything on hold due to stress and financial factors of my H's dismissal. However, we’ve discussed things and decided that if/when my H gets reinstated in his old job, we will take a “rest/break” for a few moths before we will start with the infertility treatment. My biological clock is ticking and I can’t wait too long anymore (the treatments have the best chance of success if it’s done before the age of 35 & I’m close to 34 already), but we first need to get financially back on our feet again before we can carry on with the treatment (which will be very expensive and stressful too).
Sorry - the shorts are truly mine. They are about 25 years old and when I put them on, I heard the elastic popping. I think they have seen their last use. They'll never survive a wash/dry cycle.
Actually I used to run like that with compression pants on for the hamstring and shorts for cover. Now I don't use shorts any more. It seems to be the new fashion.
My heart goes out to you going through infertility treatments. I had a difficult time getting pregnant & did a limited amount of fertility treatment. I was succesful, I have three wonderful boys. But, OMG, the rollercoaster, the heartbreak, emotional strength is a must. I wish you & your H the best.
Kiwi, yes, you must rephrase your comment about manly equipment hanging off Pio. One, the image will leave a mental scar, two it might make him swell, wait, wait, his head, the one he thinks with...wait, wait, the one with hair, swell. Gawd, I try so hard to find the right words.
Todd, splane me to please how does ascribing human characteristics (I write this out so as not to misspell) to a snake make one a "liberal bedwetter'?
Did you not post the pic. of you new "maid" because the picture is copyrighted & has been published in one "those" magazines?
Billy Joel's music suffered enormously while married to Long Island Barbie, excuse me Christy.
Pio, taking care of G's garden is one of the sweetest things I can think of. Were I she & returned to find my garden had been cared for I'd cry & hold on tight to my loving H.
But...the shorts, really, there's no possible reason to wear them. Send them in a care package to Todd. Pio wears short shorts, sing along...
So, this has been an interesting day/evening in the home of TKO...
FC: I don't know if you're still around, but if you don't believe in the principles of MB and aren't going to follow it or the advice given, why are you here??? I asked you that earlier and 2much posted to you almost the exact same thing that I did earlier today.
Steph, the reason is because fraidycat has no conscience. That is the only reason a person would come to a thread peopled by 2 men grieving over their wive's lies and adultery and shamelessly gloat about how she is fooling her H into thinking she and OM are just "friends." AS you pegged it, she is not here to save her marriage.
This person has had other alias' on here as Sarie/BlessedTime/IWRA/Celt and several others. She is just here to stir trouble, promote affairs and stick the knife into other hurting folks. Watch out, you guys.
Nams, how it will be in TKO land is how you all determine it will be.
Pio, I want to make sure that you understand that I didn't think you approved of me or that I thoughtI had "converted" you. I was merely signaling that you had listened to what I had to say and you understood my sitch. If I had come here for approval or to persuade anyone that my course of action was the best, I wouldn't have been reluctant to share my story, and I wouldn't have repeatedly said that MB principles are the best method for solving most marital problems.
You have to play the hand that is dealt to you. Each of us sizes up a situation and assesses what we think the proper way to deal with it is to achieve a desired outcome. We take many things into consideration: personalities, history, tolerance for risk, reward and expectations. Mine are different from yours. Only you can say what is the best path for you. I don't pretend to have the only way down the path. And my destination is not the same as yours. I would merely like to complete my life married to the same man that I started with, and keep my family in tact and relatively happy. I am settling and I know I am. I have lived too long to expect perfection and I don't have to have it. I feel that my expectations are realistic for my set of circumstances. To aim for perfection would only set me up for disappointment.
I don’t know how it is possible to reestablish trust with a spouse who has been W when they come back into your life. It takes an enormous amount of faith in yourself, the spouse and God or what ever belief system you have. There are no guarantees in life, no way to ensure a particular outcome. You simply have to do the best you can and hope for the best. Only time and your expectations will tell if you marriage will be satisfying for you after an affair. There is no way to crawl into someone else’s head and be perfectly reassured that their motives are pure.
I had no agenda when I came here except to lend a sympathetic ear, continue to learn things and participate in what I thought was an open, humorous, healing tolerant forum. I had no thoughts of converting anyone. Above all I wanted to cause no further pain to anyone. My H has an interesting take on pain. He says, “it lets you know you are still alive and breathing.” I am not so sure that isn’t one of the most accurate statements about the human condition that there is. Pain is not comforting, not a place for solace, it only tells you that you are still in the game of life and that to me is in and of itself comforting.
So it is my fervent wish that TKO can go back to being a healing healthy place for all who need it and that above all there will be tolerance for differing opinions. fc
Aquanet is that lacquer used to protect furniture right?
The dog is better but still acting scared. She's with us in the main parts of the house, not using her hiding places as much. She's eating & going. I think she may need time to feel safe again. She now looks at one cabnet in the kitchen next to her eating area. I wonder if something fell from there & scared her.
Does that mean you didn't do with your WW's happiness in mind? I remember you saying you hate to garden so clearly you didn't do it for the pleasure of gardening.
I'm wondering if you're feathering the nest, making nice, making things as appealing as you can. I'm wondering why & how this makes you feel, though it sounds like you're trying to turn off some emotions.
discovered something interesting today. I wanted to replace the * after my name with something else (I’m tired of the *), and then I received the following message:
Suzet with a _? Say it isn't true Suzet with a star.
I would like to express an opinion of why Pio is tending to his wife's garden. It seems to me that he loves her very much and even though she has hurt him, he is more than willing to try to pick up the pieces and move forward with their lives together. I find it quite admirable that he feels this way. It does not imply that he is willing to live a life without boundaries for her. It merely shows that he is open to the possiblity of a reconcilliation. If she turns him down then she doesn't deserve a man who is this good anyway. It's an act of love and an expression of faith in the possibility of a reconcilliation. fc
Yes, FC, I agree as do most people here I'd venture to guess. I just wondered if Pio was willing to acknowledge it & say it out loud. I also wondered if this made him feel vulnerable, scared, or any number of emotions he might be facing right now. Oh, & sick, don't forget sick.
When ex told me he wanted to divorce I acutually did throw up. I stood up, numb at first, then went outside to throw up.
D is a possibility Pio might be facing despite his best efforts.
Mornin' Nams. I am glad your dog is doing better. A shepard/rotty mix does sound beautiful. Their coloration is very nice. Both breeds are so smart. I had a standard poodle for 17 years who was almost the perfect pet. She was wonderful. My entire family loved her and she has been gone for two years. We have so many wonderful memories associated with her. We are just now this week experiencing a dog again. We bought one a couple of weekends ago and this will be a very different experience. She's one of the smaller Shih Tzus. (9 weeks old) I am surprised at how intelligent she is. I thought small and cute but not nearly as smart as a St. Poodle. Well, I think I was wrong. I am trying to not fall in love with her too much, or be too indulgent, but it's difficult.
Nams, I would imagine that Pio is feeling a whole range of emotions. They are probably pretty hard to separate out right now. It's pretty hard to guard your heart at all times.
I have no idea what is going to happen. I am totally ready to get divorced tomorrow if need be. I'm simply tired of playing games.
I am trying to make the house more or less presentable out of respect for gemela because those things are important to her. There are a lot of things I'm not doing. For example, I had moved all her stuff out of the shower so I could have room for my razor and shampoo. (There wasn't room before). I'm not moving her stuff back. She can do that. I'm not hanging her clothes or boxing her shoes. It is all folded well enough and stacked. Her scrapbooking stuff is in a corner. The gemela that left a few weeks ago is one still in love with OM and fogged by her A. I have no expectation that any of that has changed in such a short time.
I believe that, if she does come back and say she wants the M, it will be out of shame, sense of duty, whatever. I fully expect her to be a pretend wife. That's not what I want. I have been very happy this time without her. I think her being back is going to make me unhappy. Honestly I don't know how long I will be able to tolerate her.
Regardless, she is still my wife for the moment. I have to act as her husband same as I would if she were not cheating on me. Her behavior should not dictate mine. If it did, I would be a hypocrit. So I took care of the garden. It is not perfect. I left things for her to do herself. But at least she won't feel the need to do it the first thing in the morning the day she gets back.
Okay, it's me Typhoid Mary here. It's obvious that you all still think I am up to no good.
I am not very bb saavy, but if there is a way to prove that I am not the person that you all think I am, I'd like to know how. So if there is some way to put this issue to bed forever please tell me how to do it. I don't mind taking responsibility for who I am, but I cannot fight against misconceptions and it's hurtful for me to be prejudged based on someone that I am not. fc
Hi there nams, please to meet you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Quote
My heart goes out to you going through infertility treatments. I had a difficult time getting pregnant & did a limited amount of fertility treatment. I was succesful, I have three wonderful boys. But, OMG, the rollercoaster, the heartbreak, emotional strength is a must. I wish you & your H the best.
Thanks for your good wishes nams. What type of treatment did you receive. Intro-fertilization? Me & my H will have to undergo ICSI - a intro-fertilization method specifically used for male infertility. My H absolutely adores children and I know he will be a very good father one day...very considering, caring & responsible...and for this reason it has always (and still) saddens me that a person like him (someone who love children and will make a wonderful father) happens to have this problem...
I am not very bb saavy, but if there is a way to prove that I am not the person that you all think I am, I'd like to know how.
FC, it doesn't matter. The fact is that you are exactly the person that both Todd and I would divorce in a heartbeat. You are my WW at this moment. I hope she will change at some point and no longer be you. I am willing to give her that opportunity if she wants it. But to be stuck with the marriage that you are willing to offer is worse than death. That's not to sya that I believe your H should seek a divorce. He should only seek a divorce if you remain resolute in your current mindset.
You say you love your H and I'm sure on some level you do. It's hard to walk away from 37 years. But I am certain you love OM more. I am certain it hurts you to see him every week knowing he is with another. It is unrequited love. You would have been far better off if you had had your A and it had died a death.
You view OM as prince charming because he was so noble as to sacrifice himself at the altar to wed another woman to keep you safe. If you had left your H to run off with OM, I think you would have more self-respect. Your still stuck in the fairy-tale. I also know more about you than you have revealed here but I will never use that info for anything. It serves no purpose.
I don't feel sorry for you but thinking about your sitch really does make me sad. You remind me so much of gemela after OM was deported. I still remember how he told her on the phone that he had admitted to the affair in his letter of resignation but that he wrote that he had no regrets. That made her so happy to hear. It wasn't true. He really wrote the opposite. I saw the letter. But who was she going to believe? OM or me? OM, of course. They are soulmates.
BLECH...hate that term soulmate. Rather die in a freak leg shaving accident than to ever hear it again.
Just checking in to see how you and Todd are doing. Seems you have a nit here...and it's not YOU...I got remedies for that if you want 'em.
And I had to tell Mel that in THIS part of Tejas, if'n you wear that much Aquanet, the bugs stick in your hair like it's a big ol wad of flypaper. (shudder)
I have issues with word soulmate also. And "happily everafter". And all pinky girly stories. I hope I am just getting realistic and not cynical. Not that there is anything wrong with being cynical...
Anyway, can someone explain me or send me a link or a book recommendation on 180 plan. I think I did a pretty good plan A, but I feel my M needs some different perspective sometimes. Any suggestions?
Aside from the fact that mobody likes my pink shorts, I'm okay. I am horrible dad again because I am making the girls clean up their rooms. It is embarrassing how they get their rooms. No playing tomorrow after school either. I did take DD1 to the driving range. She was more disappointed she got a black heel mark on her shoes than anything else. Never mind how she hit the ball.
I just had a nasty pain shoot through my head. I'm going to lay down.
Well, Pio, I am sorry that you feel that way about my motives. I figured you knew more about me than I had revealed here and that's fine.
I certainly can understand why being in a marriage with someone like me would be worse than death to you. It's all in your perspective. You want a guarantee that your FWW will come back and things will be able to get back to the previous trust levels that you had. I don't know whether or not that is possible. Frankly, I doubt it. She may come back and things may be wonderful from her standpoint and she may be fully committed to you in every way possible. But again, whether or not you are able to ever believe it or trust her is completely another matter. Remember the old "trust but verify." Maybe that's the way you life will have to be from this day forward.
I have no idea if I love my OM more. I have never had the chance to find out what living with him would be like. I don't know the answer to that anymore than I can fly. I grew up from the time I was 13 on with my H being the only man in my life. I know what it's been like with him and I know good days as well as bad. But to be able to say that I love OM more is ludicrous. I have no facts to base that upon. He might have been a complete nightmare to live with. In fact, he is very different from my H and I don't know if that contrast is good or bad. No one is perfect, not my H nor the OM. I try to consider the best case scenario given the resources I have to work with. If I look back at my M, even with all it's problems, I honestly have to say that I have had a very good marriage. I think, but don't know for sure, that my H was the very best fit for me. I can also tell you this, my OM's former infidelity ruined his entire family and made his life a living H. I don't think I would have wanted to take a risk like that either. I felt sorry for him and wondered just how much punishment was going to be visited upon him and his family for his "sins" but most people would probably think he hadn't suffered enough.
I will tell you this one thing. If you are able to love and trust Gamela again and she you, it will be wonderful for you. If you let the mistrust color your whole world then there's not much point in trying. It may never be "perfect" again, but it probably wasn't to begin with. IMHO, it is not ever realistic to expect perfection from anyone or any situation.
Neither of you are curiosities to me. I am very impressed at your internal fortitude and your perseverence and I admire both of you. And I wish that there was some way your faith in your wives could be restored and that you would be able to move forward in a calm, happy, peaceful and rewarding manner. fc
I have issues with word soulmate also. And "happily everafter". And all pinky girly stories. I hope I am just getting realistic and not cynical. Not that there is anything wrong with being cynical...
Anyway, can someone explain me or send me a link or a book recommendation on 180 plan. I think I did a pretty good plan A, but I feel my M needs some different perspective sometimes. Any suggestions?
I dunno cynical...there is a part of me that has whithered and broken to bits and was blown away in the tsunami...I survived, but that part of me didn't....it was the part of me that could look at couples and say, "oh, aren't they sweet..." That part's been replaced with a new part that squeaks, "I wonder if he cheated on her..." BLAH! I'm still fun loving...but...I dunno...not really jaded...more abalone...instead of being all one happy color, my colors are swirled with happy, sad (dunno if it'll ever go away), learned, worldly, and more than a little questioning of people and their drives and motives.
I'm like Elizabeth in The Paper Bag Princess.
From Amazon's review on the book:
Quote
Elizabeth, a beautiful princess, lives in a castle and wears fancy clothes. Just when she is about to marry Prince Ronald, a dragon smashes her castle, burns her clothes with his fiery breath, and prince-naps her dear Ronald. Undaunted and presumably unclad, she dons a large paper bag and sets off to find the dragon and her cherished prince. Once she's tracked down the rascally reptile, she flatters him into performing all sorts of dragonly stunts that eventually exhaust him, allowing her to rescue Prince Ronald. But what does Prince Not-So-Charming say when he sees her? "You smell like ashes, your hair is all tangled and you are wearing a dirty old paper bag. Come back when you are dressed like a real princess." (At least he has the courtesy not to mention that the princess's crown resembles a dying sea anemone.) In any case, let's just say that Princess Elizabeth and Prince Ronald do not, under any circumstances, live happily ever after.
MY happily ever after isn't defined by Prince Not So Charming anymore. Yeah. What I went through changed me...it challenged my thinking and my views and my values and WHAT I value...so I define me...no one else will ever have that power.
As for your 180 book...I know Faithy has mentioned one before. I'll email her to pop in here for you.
Well Trix, here I am again on the horns of a dilemma. My poodle's name was A. J. She was black and it stood for Aunt Jemima. So now, I will have the reputation of also being a racist. She was always called AJ never her real name. She was a magnificent pet. She had the most wonderful personality. So calm and so faithful, extremely bright and beautiful. Not a show dog by any stretch of the imagination but a wonderful companion. fc
The only people who believe in the term "soulmate" are high school sweethearts and adulterers. The rest of us recognize it for what it is. For high school kids, who cares? It is pretty harmless. The adulterer is a different story. They will destroy everything they touch to worship at its feet. Trying to dissuade the wayward is quite difficult.
I have posted a couple of times how fate brought WW and pool boy together so I won't repeat. It is just such [email]bullcr@p.[/email] So when I use the term "soulmate", please feel free to do a find and replace with "egotistical, self-serving, auto-deluded, reprobate infidel"(1). It is just easier to type soulmate. Hope you don't mind the shortcut. I don't type all that well.
(1) let's just assume that I have no need to post about high school kids.
For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 2. No frequent phone calls. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage. 4. Do not follow her around the house. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. 6. Do not ask for help from family members. 7. Do not ask for reassurances. 8. Do not buy gifts. 9. Do not schedule dates together. 10. Do not spy on spouse. 11. Do not say "I Love You". 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive. 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while). 21. Never lose your cool. 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic. 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger). 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out. 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy. 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared. 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
My H's OW "believes in soulmates" to the point that when she met someone else she said she couldn't believe she had TWO SOULMATES bwwwwwwwwaaaahhhhhhhhh!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Who wears pink shorts...nananananana...Pio wears pink shorts...na na na na na na
Thanks to Nams or Larousee I have the Nair advertising song stuck in my head along with the vision of Pio in pink
Pio, I think you are doing a fantastic job of preparing without going over the top...I know you are practicing the prepare for the worst hope for the best theory. I also know you realize hope is not a plan and you are technically prepared to execute the plan if G chooses not to R the M
I am with you at the zero expectation marker...if I don't think of my kids I am almost certain which path I would be running down right now...I am so frustrated b/c as much of a liar as my H is he does not lie about how he feels about me...there are no declarations of love or anything related to how he feels about me...all of our dealings now revolve our children, finances and the home...
I have to agree when you told FC that you couldn't live in a marriage based on illusion...I want WH to be honest with himself and me...if he has no feelings for me and this is all about trying to stay together to provide 2 parents then I want out...I refuse to exist anymore...I want to live. At least if he were honest with me I could quit worrying about him and what he thought, felt etc about me...I thought I had reached that point but I am not quite there yet. Where are you with all of this or have you not given much thought to it yet?
FC, I would like to know what you think your husband would do if you told him the truth? I actually thought my WH would become suicidal at one point if I held him to boundaries based on past history and childhood abuse/trauma...I got to the point where I realized that my actions are not responsible for his actions. Regardless of how poorly or wonderfully we are treated we all have free will and make choices continuously...I cannot be responsible for what WH does...I cannot control his behavior...I cannot feel guilty for the consequences he is now suffering...I can support him through the process if he allows it...that would be his choice. So far my WH chooses to keep all emotional and personal issues to himself or perhaps confide in others...we have absolutely no emotional bond left aside from our children so what do I have to loose. If you had an EA with OM have you begun to re-establish some type of emotional relationship with your H? My WH tells me he is too ashamed of his actions to confide and open up to me. I told him that he wasn't ashamed to cheat on me and lie to me why would he be ashamed to admit it...it is not like I don't already know most of it...just curious on your perspective
FF: thanks for posting the plan. I guess I will give it a try since I've been doing most of the points, but the opposite of. I've been trying to make my FWH feel protected but maybe I am not giving space to let him make me feel safe also.
Dealan-de: I was reading your post. Congratulations. you are a wonderful person. I wish you the best with your H and DDs.
You are my WW at this moment. I hope she will change at some point and no longer be you. I am willing to give her that opportunity if she wants it. But to be stuck with the marriage that you are willing to offer is worse than death.
The reason I reacted to FC's story post the way I did, was because I was afraid this was going to happend: Pio would asociate FC and her perspective to G. and her 'evolution' or lack of it from a WW to a XWW.
FC, you have rationalized your situation and your actions and you think you have 'recovered'. The risk of posting rationalizations instead of useful, healthy concepts and guidelines is that it creates confusion.
You say:
Quote
You want a guarantee that your FWW will come back and things will be able to get back to the previous trust levels that you had. I don't know whether or not that is possible. Frankly, I doubt it. She may come back and things may be wonderful from her standpoint and she may be fully committed to you in every way possible. But again, whether or not you are able to ever believe it or trust her is completely another matter. Remember the old "trust but verify." Maybe that's the way you life will have to be from this day forward.
FC, taking your opinion just as your opinion, not even thinking that you were involved in an affair, your opinion is what people usually say, but Dr. Harley says that usually trust is recovered after two years of a Policy of Radical Honesty. He also says that no one should have or give blind trust. We all should be accountable of our actions in front of the spouse.
Then FC says:
Quote
If you are able to love and trust Gamela again and she you, it will be wonderful for you. If you let the mistrust color your whole world then there's not much point in trying.
Again FC are just opinions, meanwhile Dr. Harley said yesterday on his radio program that trust is not necesary to recover a marriage but that honesty is necesary.
Finally FC says:
Quote
It may never be "perfect" again, but it probably wasn't to begin with. IMHO, it is not ever realistic to expect perfection from anyone or any situation.
Again another personal opinion of FC. Dr. Harley says that to survive an affair a marriage not only has to recover but to be much better than it was before and he has proved again and again that it's doable. Dr Harly promotes the idea that not only is posible to have a marriage with constant romantic love but that romantic love should be an important part of a marriage. Romantic love in a marriage will protect both spouses from an affair.
FC, of course you have a right to your personal opinions but the danger of these opinions comming from you is exactly the danger of giving an uninformed opinion and besides that reinforce your rationalizations with your personal choices.
[color:"green"] Pio, I could forgive you the pink shorts if you would stick to MB guidelines to recover your marriage. You know that I differ from your opinions about G inner or secret feelings or intentions. I just ask you not to build up resentment or 'fed up' feelings based on FC story. Please. [/color]
2much, I am concerned that if I told my H of my EA that he would be obviously very upset. But more than that, he walks a fine line of coexisting fairly well with the depression that has now plagued him for 14 years. He refuses to consider taking AD's due to the profession that he is in. He is and always has been the type of person who thought about doing something for months and even years and then all of a sudden does it and it seems like he hasn't considered whatever it is, but in truth he's been ruminating on it for a long time before taking action without saying a word about it. My concern is that I wouldn't know how to prevent something like that from happening. On a daily basis he and I do pretty well. We have known each other for so long that we usually know what is going on in each other's head. But there are those isolated times when I don't have a clue what is up with him. If I ask or push it, he clams up. I on the other hand am usually pretty transparent and usually spill my guts if there is a problem or something that is bothering me.
On a scale of 1 to 10 I suppose I could say our life and marriage compared to most other middle class Americans is probably about an 8. I don't mean material things either. I mean family ties, things in common, communication, common interests etc. So even with the problems that I have personally had, I cannot complain a whole lot about my H or my family life. I am quite willing to take an 8 out of 10 knowing full well that it's so much better than most have. I do not want to upset the applecart for any reason. My children love their father, I love him, he's a rock for the most part in our lives and we in his. To me it's not worth the chance I'd be taking for a better marriage. I want him around for as long as possible and as healthy as possible. I do want him to have as happy a life as is possible given his previous troubles professionally. There may come a day when he retires that he will be willing to take AD's and get professional help for his depression. If that day comes, there will be a hue and cry from my family of sheer joy as none of us like seeing him upset, negative and depressed most of the time. And you are correct, it is a choice that he is making.
My EA with the OM was not so great that I lost a great deal of emotional connection with my H. OTOH, my emotional connection to my H isn't so great that I had a whole lot to lose either. However, as in all A's, yes there was some difference and that difference is melting away as we plod on.
Here's my fundamental problem with this whole conundrum. You cannot make someone be 100% truthful. You can never know with certainty if they are being 100% truthful. It's the ideal and all of us want it, but to really achieve it I believe is impossible. And to be able to achieve it after one partner has had an A I believe even more unrealistic. You have to want to trust your mate, you have to want to believe in them and if you don't there's precious little a FWW can do about it. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it cannot be put back in.
My H knows full well that I am not perfect, I have many flaws. He doesn't happen to know of this one, but based on my history I think he would be stunned over this. I am not sure how he would react and I don't want to precipitate anything untoward for him. I certainly do not wish to cause him any more hurt than he's already had to endure, and I don't want my kids hurt either by him taking his life. I do not protect him for the sake of my "a@@" I am not all that worried about my [email]a@@.[/email] I am worried about my H and my family. I have always been the strong one in the family when the chips were really down and basically I have just broken down under trying to carry the weight of both of us on my back. It's difficult for me to continue on with no relief in sight. Maybe a better way to put is is I have just gotten worn down from living with someone who is chronically depressed.
I hope I have addressed your questions appropriately. If not, fire away again. fc
I feel differently, in fact my H is out looking for apartments as I write b/c I won't back down on the honesty issue. I pretty much laid it out that I wasn't willing to stay in an illusion anymore even for the sake of the kids. I told H he needed to be honest with himself about our M and decide whether he was willing to be honest...he turned it around on me and said it wouldn't matter b/c he felt I wouldn't be able to handle life with him after all of these damages...another example of WS making choices for the BS. I will not argue, beg or plead for WH to stay home...he has a batchelor agenda and is not willing to make the effort to R...his actions have spoken for him and he hasn't even bothered to try and explain himself outside of saying it is easier to avoid everything and go sow his wild oats...yep. Nice huh?
Larousse, I had not read your post before I posted the one above. I think Pio is smart enough to judge Gamela's behavior on it's own merits. I don't speak for all WW. We are all different. To try to compare Gamela to me is to try to compare apples and oranges. She and I have nothing in common except we cheated on our H's. There is so much more to the complete picture than that.
He is one very smart man and I don't think he will be unfair to Gamela either. I think ( again an opinion and that's all we ever write, there are no footnotes or facts on any of these posts) he will try as hard as he can to be objective in assessing her willingness to reconcile. Now just because he is human, he may have a little more difficulty seeing his own motivations. We all have a hard time looking at our own motivations as objectively as others can. It's the emotional spin that we have a hard time taking off and looking through. I think that is why the feed back here is so important.
I thought that when anyone posted here that we all automatically knew it was an opinion. I was not aware that there are immutable truths in relationships. I try to take into account the diversity and all I can speak to is my own personal experience.
Larousse, do you not realize that all of Dr. Harley's tenets are also opinions formed from his experiences also? I have no quarrel with the fact that he has a huge amount of experience with this and has formulated a pretty successful plan. But as in all "soft-sciences" it's very difficult to quantify the human qualities that affect these outcomes.
One last point, I do not think I am recovered, I am in the process and I don't expect it to ever end. I think it will be with me for the rest of my life.
and decide whether he was willing to be honest...he turned it around on me and said it wouldn't matter b/c he felt I wouldn't be able to handle life with him after all of these damages...another example of WS making choices for the BS. Nice huh?
Anyway, TMI. Thanks for the input
No it's not a nice way to do you. And I understand why you want that truth and honesty.
My strategy is to no longer be in a position to have to be untruthful to my H. There is nothing going on and I am actively working on my own problems trying to solve them so they will not impact our lives again. Since he doesn't know, he feels no pain from what I did. He surely feels pain from the discourse that is going on when I try to work on myself.This has been a voyage of self-discovery for me and I am trying to solve my own personal problems in the hope that they will not create any other problems for our marriage. The difference is, I want this to work, without further harming him and your H doesn't seem to want to work on your problems. And this is all my opinion, none of it's cast in stone, it's just my take. Doesn't make it gospel.
I never meant any harm to you, I thought my opinions would be considered to be just that.... my opinions. I didn't know that you would take what I said and generalize it to your situation. I am sorry if my opinions have made you feel badly. I am not going to post anything else. The very last thing I wanted to do was hurt you in any way shape or form. Sincerely, FC
I'm so sorry to hear that. I don't know how I missed that.
FC your intentions appear to be good, however, the outcome is not. This should be the impetus to return to lurking & find a thread where your posts don't cause such damage.
I also recall Dorothy having ruby slippers and not bright pink shorts and a bunch of cable ties and snap on tools. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The flying monkeys....LOL...I will now not only envision Pio in his pink shorts following the yellow brick road with his hamsters/gerbils???? but will envision the laundry list of OPs as the flying monkey's!!!!
WH informed last night that one of his OPs now works in the same area...flying monkey, flying monkey...told him I didn't give a flying **%$ since he was the dangerous one and there are women all over...flying monkeys, flying monkeys...
so who is the BAD witch????
I need to be able to get the bleach and water mixture ready for the big dump <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
and perhaps I could give Dorothy some much needed teasin and a little Aquanet to get rid of that silly Kansas hair! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
BK, When discussing apartment hunting and his indecisiveness on whether to stay or go he alluded to a statement I had made months ago when I tried to kick him out...I told him I wouldn't have him in my house living the life of a batchelor and sewing his wild oats...he used the phrase sewing his wild oats when saying that maybe he needed to go live alone since he never got to sew his wild oats prior to M...poor thing
He continues to waffle on what he is doing...I'm close to making his decision for him but don't want to take his freedom of choice away...i did state when he asked if staying at home was an option, "if you plan on continuing on the path you are on, no. You asked if not moving out was an option...to me you are asking about shelter...no where have you asked if salvaging our M was still an option, no where have you asked if you could prove yourself as a husband and father so if all you seek is shelter then you are not welcome here"
Well I got tired of the ridicule for my pink shorts. I went out and bought a box of Rit dye and changed them, dried them, and carefully reconstructed the photo including a fake sun since it is 3:00AM here.
Depending on how your browser cache is set up, you may need to refresh the page if you revisit that photo (if you see pink, refresh).
I am talking to myself and reminding myself that I love and respect myself and will no longer allow WH to disrespect me in our home...if he chooses this path it will have to be from a distance where I don't have to witness or enable it's actions...he tried to poke fun but ended up agreeing that I indeed was enabling after I broke it down into pieces and he agreed with each piece I put before him...at the end I summarized and said, "now in allowing all of xxxx am I not an enabler?" He agreed
I think you gave him more than every opportunity. There was never any downside or risk to his behavior. Now you are asking him to make choices. I think you have mentally categorized it quite well. I'm amazed that you could look at it so rationally and ligocally given all the emotion involved. Again, wow.
larousse, ayúdame. I am going to order a cheesecake for gemela's return. I am struggling with what to put on it. I am thinking of something like "mommy, we missed you".
Help me translate.
Mamá ¡Te extrañábamos!
Is that the right way to say what I want to say?
I always get stuck conjugating. Or should I say:
Mamá ¡Nosotros te habríamos extrañado si no te hubieses haber regresado!
(might need a bigger cake though... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I was thinking about strategies vs. hope. I am in a bad shape today. I think is the result of having my hopes of trusting H crushed again. H promised to send second NC letter on Monday when it's a semi-holiday here and he can concentrate in making it a little bit better than the first one. I gave him the SAA sample. He said it was "cute". I want to say I hope he is serious this time, but as it was pointed out yesterday, that's not a strategy. I've been thinking on a strategy and I get lost in my emotions again. I think I need to be more independent of him (emotionally) but I am afraid I will just put more distance between us.
The conjugation in the first option is excellent, you know that your Spanish is outstanding, just I don't tell you it's, so no to tease your feathers even more. Then with that much Aquanet ML put over your head the feathers will look like hat ironed by Todd with buttered eyes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Ok, ok, Pio, you are obviously pretty handsome, nice legs, nice tan, (*) attractive face. The short not your thing.
...and I have to agree with Kiwi that PB has nothing to do next to you.
Let me explain slowly and patiently for you Pio. The wiz didn't have anything in his black back. Their new qualities came from inside them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
LOL I'm just kidding I know you know that.
BTW, the pink shorts were so obviously photoshopped. We didn't all just fall off the turnip truck as Todd says. I don't think that colour occurs naturally in the real world or the nylon world.
BigK, yes you missed a joke but that's ok, you're Australian.
2much, you are really knuckling down now. Good for you!
I'm sure I do because that's what every girl I asked out in high school and college told me (while declining the invitation). 2000 women can't all be wrong, can they?
The shortes way to say it would be 'Te extrañamos' it's the simple past. Te extrañábamos is equally correct and also implies like a kind of past continuos.
Could we offer Todd a bribe Kiwi? Like wine or tequila or a nursemaidcheff with mechanic and maths knowlege?
I took away the fairly word, now tell me what was I saying with that word?
I know this is really hard and, to some extent dangerous, but I decided early on that it was best for me to give up hope. I still had hope in a general sense or long term view but I never thought gemela was over her A or interested in recovery. I decided that it would make a better surprise.
Every time I built up hope, she crushed it with phone calls or something else. You are very impatient (you even admitted it). There is no quick fix and never will be. You are doing extremely well. Your WH is likely to continue to break NC and that is why you are better off expecting it and planning your reaction.
If you look back (okay I'll do it for you) at where you were to where you are now, you have come very far and are definitely going in the right direction. Keep moving there. I think you are a long way from recovery. Right now you are still Plan A. Just because WH is back in your house and has written an NC letter does not mean he wants the M - yet. He was a lot of withdrawal to suffer first. Continue your estrelar Plan A. Don't lose hope for the M - just don't trust your WH to behave the way he should right now.
Avoid LB's and DJ's. If he hurts you, tell him how he has hurt you. Tell him how you feel. Don't ask him how he feels.
The shortes way to say it would be 'Te extrañamos' it's the simple past. Te extrañábamos is equally correct and also implies like a kind of past continuos.
That is where I am stuck. To me, 'Te extrañamos' sounds more like she is still in Mexico. But this is why I asked the question. I cannot decide between the two.
I also have to take into account that you speak Mexican Spanish. Maybe I need the opinion of a Colombian just to be sure. They speak REAL Spanish there.
Then with that much Aquanet ML put over your head the feathers will look like hat ironed by Todd with buttered eyes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
dat sounds mighty cute! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You know someone should make one of these emoticons sort of like the "eek" but black with feathers so we could tar and feather someone.
Oh, and I find that buck toothed beaver grin quite obnoxious. It always makes me want to slap someone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
If I didn't know better, I would think that emoticon was Chinese.
Pio, Thanks for your great advice. I am printing it to remind myself of ... Well, good night and good luck with G. During the weekend I have less time to post...
I know this is really hard and, to some extent dangerous, but I decided early on that it was best for me to give up hope. I still had hope in a general sense or long term view but I never thought gemela was over her A or interested in recovery. I decided that it would make a better surprise.
Every time I built up hope, she crushed it with phone calls or something else.
Folks, the dialogue of the past two days put me in a deressive tailspin. I saw lie after lie after lie and it triggered me about my WW's lying. Thank you everyone for your well wishes and encouraging me to come back.
What pio said about hope is exactly right. I now have a problem in that department, I am guessing. After I moved out in March, I spent the next six months withdrawing from my WW, as Harley suggests, and did it well. I picked up the phone to call her twice but never did. That was as close as I ever got to breaking NC.
As you know, DS3 engineered a reunion with WW and me. Since then, I have had great difficulty in maintaining NC. I am not sure why. Is it because contact restored hope? Did it rekindle fires? Was it DS3's pressure? I simply don't know. I do know that I am currently unable to maintain NC.
I talked with WW earlier in the week and she agree to meet me for dinner tonight. She called after work to say that she and co-workers were going to have drinks after work. I asked her did she want to meet after that. She said no, that she had to work tomorrow and needed to get up early. Well, I was furious and quickly realized that I had made or let myself become vulnerable to her actions again. Can someone please give me a perspective as to what has changed? 2x4's are welcomed. Including from you stph if you wish to return the favor. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Pio, I understand why it's confusing, keep Te extrañábamos is more usual and totally correct. Instead of asking a Colombian I would ask a tabasqueño, they can be a whole other world, look at the mess around el Peje, the opposition presidencial candidate... Wait, I'm not surprise G can be... er, different.
Kiwi, thanks for your explanation. I was not offended at all, by the contrary it helps me. My work tends to interrupt my MBers time and I feel so much stress than I don't get to feel offended, most of the time. Feel free to correct or explain me something when you want to.
Todd, I am very sorry you were triggered, but glad you are back. Like you, I found the lies and rationalizations offensive and repugnant. Not because of my experience as a betrayed spouse, but because it offended my sense of decency, as I think it would most people. Hopefully, she is gone and will leave this thread in peace, my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
You have already answered your question. You have been caught up in contact with your w and it's reopened wounds that were nicely healing over. Do you really, really think she's going to change now? I don't think she is.
Did Todd go somewhere? I hadn't noticed. No matter.
Todd, FWIW, I see red fonts in larousse's posts too.
Well the humidity has gone away and the temperature has dropped and there is a hint of autumn in the air. Doesn't matter to our building maintenance people though. AC is going full on. According to my desk clock, it is 17.7C in my office (63.8F). No problem though. I brought in my crockpot from home and plugged it into a 220V socket. It gets REALLY toasty.
WW called me this morning to ask me if she could get by on $100 or $200 cash for the trip back. I said it depended on how much time she spent in the duty free shop. At first I thought it was strange. Why wouldn't she bring it all back as cash. Then it hit me that it was already spent so this was a phone call for more money. Duh! What was I THINKING?
gemela is chilanga or carmelita - depending on who she is talking to. She was born chilanga but raised carmelita. She expatriated to Tabasco for a couple of years which is where we met. Land of the Olmecas.
When did you post in red font? Maybe I see red font normally. Kinda like the soldier who saw every twice in "Catch 22". The doctor held up one finger and he saw two, he held up two fingers and he saw two, and so on and so forth. You had to read the book I guess.
JK, I did see the red font. Tonight, I saw green font on someone's post. Maybe I am secretly wishing for Christmas to be here.
I don't know. I tend to think that seeing her again renewed hope and that is what I had kept in check. I was resolute for six months and now, honestly, I am weak.
Should I ask BigK about SF? JK. I know the answer to that one.
Did Todd go somewhere? I hadn't noticed. No matter.
Pio, come on now. Your email to me had tear stains on it. At least I hope it was tears....
Anyway, group, for the record, to a man all other men are ugly. Just the way nature made us. What really ran me off was Pio's picture. Too much reality. I had him pictured ugly in my mind but apparently my mind's imagination is not quite vivid enough.
Well I survived the weekend quite well. No depression. I stayed too busy. DD1 and I got into a couple of spats. I decided to make chicken pot pie for lunch. My mistake was putting in peas. Okay lesson learned. I did not like the way she explained it to me though and I had to tell her that I was working very hard for her and all she and DD2 were doing all day was playing. I told her I was doing my very best and I was sorry about the peas but that it was an honest mistake and I would never do it again but that there wee correct was to tell me that and wrong ways to tell me that and she had chosen the wrong way. She was in a snit and complained about everything. Something going on besides food issues so I sent her to her room.
She had asked earlier to play in the water slide after lunch. I reminded her that she had wanted to go to the driving range. Problem is friend from across the street wanted to play on the water slide so DD1 told me they would play on it for five minutes and then we would go to the driving range (yeah - right). So I set up the water slide and DD1 decided she didn't want to play. I told her she had invited friend who was already outside so she had better go out and play. More after lunch problems. My day was going from bad to worse. So she went outside. They were not sliding so I went out and found DD1 crying. I asked why. She said because friend wouldn't play with her. I asked friend what was wrong. She sadi DD1 refused to play with her. I tried to get them to play but it wasn't meant to be so I shut off the water slide and sent friend packing and DD1 up to clean her room.
Later she came down and asked if we could go to the driving range. I should have taken a photo. She had gotten her very best skort and matching top. She had brushed her hair back into a ponytail and put on a color coordinated scrunchie. All this matched her golf glove and she had her new shoes on. She is her mother's daughter all right. She may not play well but she looks like a golfer.
DD1 and I came to better terms last night. I reminded her that all I did was scold her about her messy room. If gemela returns and finds it in that condition, it could get ugly and there would probably be shoes involved. She swears it will be clean by then. At least some of the Bratz have clothes on again. Gemela goes ballistic when the dolls don't all look nice. Hmmmm.....???
I just hope she doesn't smoke. Otherwise we ALL need smoke detectors. I am following nams advice. I now keep a battery operated one in my drawers at all times - just in case.
What really ran me off was Pio's picture. Too much reality. I had him pictured ugly in my mind but apparently my mind's imagination is not quite vivid enough.
So now you are going to blame me for only getting 41 minutes sleep a night instead of 47 minutes?
What really ran me off was Pio's picture. Too much reality. I had him pictured ugly in my mind but apparently my mind's imagination is not quite vivid enough.
So now you are going to blame me for only getting 41 minutes sleep a night instead of 47 minutes?
I cannot find your previous posts today. But just to say that a sure sign of character is that you rise to the occasion when occasion presents itself. You have done that. I am totally impressed with both the way you are handling yourself and how you communicate your actions.
Exactly...SF is an evil, bad, bad thing. Stay as far away from it as possible. It will get you nowhere fast! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
WHat's happening Stef. How did it go with WH last night?
What was last night (thinking....). I didn't see him last night. I haven't seen him since Wednesday night (2 nights ago). I talked to him this morning. Today is his birthday, so I told him happy birthday and to be careful on his trip (he went out of town this morning). I'm going out of town this weekend as well, so he told me to be careful and have fun too. That's about all that's going on with us.
I thought his birthday would be harder on me than it was, because we've always celebrated it together, but I was OK today.
How is everything on the bottom of the world? Do you ever get tired of the blood rushing to your head? Or staying in your head, as it were. Your legs must get weak.
I once went to Ecuador and located the equator. As soon as I stepped across the equator (which is much taller than frequently reported), I fell down. Of course I was perched on the edge of a cliff but still.....
I'm thinkin' BigK would agree with me on this one...SF is the #1 worst possible thing imaginable you can do.
I'm tellin' ya, don't do it, guys.
I'm going to be very disappointed in you all if I find out you've done it and not gotten the OK from BigK to do it. He's still the ruler and he always knows what's best and SF is WORST!!
Todd, we shoot wild hawgs offa the back porch here in east Texas!
See, that's what I meant by the "right" side as depicted on a map. I knew you had to be in East Tejas because the boys and girls to the west of you are very confused about BBQ.
Plus the Aquanet gave it away. West of you they would use Jean-Claude Badeau hairspray.
Steph wrote: Exactly...SF is an evil, bad, bad thing. Stay as far away from it as possible. It will get you nowhere fast!
You jes keep them britches on, young lady! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Oh, I will Mel, I promise. I have seen the error of my ways now! My pants aren't coming off for any reason! Well, not ANY reason...it could make other things difficult, but you know what I mean...
Besides, who would want SF anyway? It's not like it's even particulary enjoyable. I can find waaaayyyy better things to do with my time...I can't really think of any right now..I'll get back to you on that...
Yeah, that episode doesn't seem so funny right now.
Jerry Seinfeld was on Oprah and they talked about that episode. What I though was funny is that they writers couldn't find a way to say the unsayable. It took them days to come up with "being alone".
I saw their appearance on Ophrah also. I like the way they handled Kramer's decision to go sans underwear.
JERRY: Well it looks like you've adjusted to the boxers...
KRAMER: Wellll, I wouldn't go as far as that.
JERRY: You went back to the Jockeys?
KRAMER: Wrong again.
JERRY: (pause as he realizes) Oh, no.
ELAINE: What? What?...
JERRY: Don't you see what's goin' on here???... No boxers, no Jockeys...
ELAINE: (backing away from Kramer) Eeaawww...
JERRY: The only thing between him and us is a thin layer of gabardine... Kramer, say it isn't so.
KRAMER: Oh, it be so. I'm out there, Jerry, an' I'm lllovin' every minute of it!!!
JERRY: Don't you need a little... help?
KRAMER: Surprisingly, no. I'm freee, I'm unfettered... (opens door to leave, still very happy, then) Feel like a naked innocent boy rrroamin' the countryside!! (exits)
Jerry's monologue at the beginning of the eiposde was classic.
I think the thing I admire most about the Chinese is that they're hanging in there with the chopsticks. Because, if you think about it, you know, they've seen the fork... by now. I'm sure they've seen the spoon, they're going, "Yeah, yeah, they're OK... We're going to stay with the sticks." I mean, I don't know how they've missed it: thousands of years ago, Chinese farmer gets up, has his breakfast with the chopsticks, goes out and works all day in the field with a shovel... Hello?... Shovel! Not going out there ploughing 40 acres with a couple of pool cues.
Steph, my H hated Seinfeld as well, didn't get it and didn't think it was at all funny. Although I used to catch him laughing occasionally.
DS and I would be laughing out loud.
Yeah, I'm with your H on that one. I never did get it. Their voices all nauseate me and the dialogue was just too ridiculous to be funny. I was so glad when it was cancelled only to be crushed again with the horror of reruns and syndication!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
There won't be any lack of SF in our house until we're little old doddery people.
When I was 42 I worked with a young (about Steph's age) group of women. I mentioned SF to them one day (and the fact that shock, horror it's still possible over 40) when they were all talking about it (as they do) and one of them looked at me and said "oooooh, geriatric sex".
Who would have thought that you could get even OLDER and still be participating.
There was an episode of Malcolm in the Middle where mom and dad POJA'ed no SF. It was brilliant. Couldn't stop laughing. They both got so frustrated and couldn't resist any longer and then looked around and saw what they had done with all that energy - and went right back to abstinence.
Well, if I decide I want to ever have SF again, I hope I continue to want it when I'm old. I hope to still be in love with my H enough to still want it.
BTW, I am not THAT young! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Well, you do Todd, but can't you see the beauty in no SF???
Err....no but it has only been seven months. Maybe a little longer and I will catch on. But being that SF represents my top five EN's, I don't hold much hope.
And it's true. I don't even know how long I've gone without it and I've already painted the entire house, inside and outside, stained the fence, groomed the dog, rearranged the living room furniture, scrubbed floors, bitten all my fingernails and toenails off, started gnawing at my elbows....
I know how I'll recognise you and Todd if I'm ever in the States. No wait, I'll ask DD to look out for people who have gnawed elbows and shoulders and toes and fingers.
I never did like Friends and I have never heard of Malcom in the Middle. I do not watch much television. I never watched Seinfeld until the eight season because everyone at work kept talking about it. I sat through several episodes and hardly cracked a smile. Then I saw the episode where George was unemployed and told the employment office he had applied to work at Vanderlay Industries and gave Jerry's address and phone number.
The punch line was: And you want to be my latex salesman. That scene really ripped me apart. I love all the characters but totally neurotic Georgie is my favorite. I favor neursoses IOW.
Well, you do Todd, but can't you see the beauty in no SF???
Err....no but it has only been seven months. Maybe a little longer and I will catch on. But being that SF represents my top five EN's, I don't hold much hope.
There, finished with both elbows....
What's next? Shoulders of course.
You're a smart guy, I know you'll catch on soon. It's really not sooo bad, this whole no-SF thing. Just give it some time, you'll understand soon enough and then it will be a distant memory...
Do you think I can Plan A BigK into letting me have SF again?? Maybe if I act like I don't want it, he'll loosen his ban on me....something to think about.
I don't miss it at all BigK!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I know how I'll recognise you and Todd if I'm ever in the States. No wait, I'll ask DD to look out for people who have gnawed elbows and shoulders and toes and fingers.
Todd is too, for different reasons. One, he's still a married man and is banned from SF with anyone but his WW and two, he certainly doesn't want to go down THAT track with his WW.
The stand out comedy I have seen is a BBC one called "My Family" It is absolutely hilarious. I have imported all the DVD's - the first few series are the best but our whole family adores it.
Tell you what Stef - you keep going like you are and you will have SF in spades much sooner than you think.
Yeah, I'm irresistable, you all know it. So does WH even if he doesn't want to admit it. Stupid boys. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Steph, in all seriousness now, you are doing this EXACTLY right, thanks to BigK and the others here.
I just can't stress enough that you just MUSN'T make it easy for him. It he gets just ONE indication that you are willing to let him cake eat he will take that chance.
I don't see him as a lost cause at all and I know that if you keep going the way you are he will see the girl he chose to marry (because he did choose to marry you - he wasn't forced) and she will be a very attractive proposition.
Please don't mess this up now Steph. Your whole future depends on doing this right.
Steph, in all seriousness now, you are doing this EXACTLY right, thanks to BigK and the others here.
I just can't stress enough that you just MUSN'T make it easy for him. It he gets just ONE indication that you are willing to let him cake eat he will take that chance.
I don't see him as a lost cause at all and I know that if you keep going the way you are he will see the girl he chose to marry (because he did choose to marry you - he wasn't forced) and she will be a very attractive proposition.
Please don't mess this up now Steph. Your whole future depends on doing this right.
Thanks Kiwi. I've been joking all night, I know you all know that. I don't intend to undo the work that I've done. I'm going to try not to anyway. I'm just going to be the best me I can be!
The good news is, I can tell he's still in love with me (and he doesn't have to say a word, so I'm not listening to him!). Now I need to work on convincing him that the changes I've made are permanent. I know from us talking the other night that he's scared to death of things going back to the way they were before his A and that's why he wants a D. We both have trust issues, just of different kinds.
Changing the subject completely, DS is playing a gig out of town tonight and I have bought the ingredients to make a Thai curry from scratch. It involves real chillies, lemon grass, lime leaves, a huge number of spices, Thai fish sauce, chicken and a number of other things that I'm looking forward to putting together.
Maybe it's not changing the subject. It's going to be so aromatic and delicious that I have a feeling it's going to be followed by........
I'm not sure yet about the racing. I know that Dr. Harley said if both spouses don't enjoy the hobby don't do it, but I absolutely do not want him to give it up and I refuse to even broach the subject of it (I'll be served papers the next day!). So, I am going to compromise with him, and go with him more often and learn more about the drivers he likes and whatever he's willing to teach me. And who knows? Maybe I'll find that I do enjoy it....way down the road....
I can't see me enjoying it in this lifetime but there are things my H loves (guitars) that I don't understand and there are things I love (scrapbooking) that my H doesn't understand.
I think what we've come to do is appreciate that the other person is passionate about it and not to put it down. My H made fun of my scrapbooking to start with but has learned to admire what I'm doing and say I'm good at it. I've learned to appreciate all the different types of guitars and encourage him when he talks about them.
Baby Steps Stef - the stock-car racing may be on the table in recovery. I really like what I am hearing from you Stef - if you are indeed telling us everything, it sounds overwhelmingly positive to me.
Check into a stock car racing course. You pay money to go take lessons and drive around the course really fast in stock cars. Might make a great couples vacation.
Well I'm off. My son is going to a football presentation night. This will hopefully be my last ever contact with OM. My wife is staying home. She hasn't attended a single one of Son's matches this year because of that piece of chit.
Actually if anything changes it - it will be the internet and the language that drives it.
Well, being that Al Gore, somewhat of an American, invented the internet, and that the equipment that drives the internet is American, and the world language is English which was invented by America, I mean, come on, it's as clear as my knuckles....errrr... my toes....err.....my elbows......my..my....knees.
Without referring to any specific posters or posts (simply because I don't want to start another argument [today]), I want to refer back to Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. What upsets me/concerns me/scares me is mediocrity. I believe in quality. I don't think I am a perfectionist. "Average" is good as long as it is your best effort. What I detest are people who can do better but don't. I'm sure I have talked about this before but it is worth repeating. I detest the idea of a mediocre marriage - the one where H and W get along okay, stay together for family/children/don't want to divide the pets/preserve financial assets. So this idea of just staying married for the sake of it is repulsive to me. Can I find a stronger word? You can never know what is in the heart of another. Gemela has always said that.
I still view MB as "carrousel". Long time readers will know what that means and why I think that. But like all the people, I still believe in carrousel - at least as an abstract possibility. If not, I would most certainly "run". But MB clearly is all or nothing. There is no halfway/almost/not-great-but-okay. MB is also full of kool-aid drinkers. I hate zealots of any variety too. Life is just not that black and white for me. Fortunately the kool-aid drinkers avoid this thread. I try my best to avoid them as well although I'm not always successful.
So MB is about quality and quality is a very unique property of a marriage. Pirsig presents a very interesting argument about quality. It is almost as impressive as The Critique of Pure Reason and runs somewhat in parallel. Most of us only know quality by comparison to something of lesser quality but, then again, most of us have no concept of qhat quality really is.
For those of you that stop short, get up and keep going. Quality is a worthy goal.
I'm interested in cutting wide grooves in some 2x2's and the router would give me a problem due to the width of the base. (I don't have a router table to match my router) So I was thinking of multiple passes with a dade blade on the table saw.
I was curious about who this "Sarie" person was so did a search and went back and read a few threads. Apparently she was a great number of posters. She posted as WS, BS, man, woman and maybe even a performing seal. It is not clear if all her monikers are known or not but it is like TRC on steroids. Apparently the way MB posters have busted this person is that they all have one trait in common - they all attack MelodyLane.
So this is just a warning to you. Don't EVER attack MelodyLane or you'll be Sarie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You know I have often wondered if Pepperband and MelodyLane aren't the same person. MelodyLane is the "mean" one and Pepperband is the...no...that doesn't work. I thought I was on to something. Guess not. Gee I hope I don't end up being Sarie for this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Do you want to cut dados across the width or length? Use high quality stacked blades. What wood species? I don't understand your comment about the router. You have two choices: you can easily make a router table or simply clamp (see what I mean?) a straightedge perpendicular to the stock and use it as a fence or guide and make successive passes. However, if you are making cuts along a length, a table saw is superior and easier.
Pio, you were VERY tough on a poster before. Where did that come from?
Because he is asking the wrong question and overlooking the obvious. I would be more concerned that WW will do a runner with the kid and never come back and he is worried about car seats?
Aside from that I hate the attitude that people are somehow inherently safe in the USA and all other countries are backward. It sound like he is trying to garner support for his safety stance and it just seems like a person making any excuse to throw up obstacles. I can't imagine that most mothers would willfully endanger their children. It was just a strange argument.
If gemela returns and finds it in that condition, it could get ugly and there would probably be shoes involved. She swears it will be clean by then. At least some of the Bratz have clothes on again. Gemela goes ballistic when the dolls don't all look nice. Hmmmm.....???
I am beginning to see a connection...
Looks like Pinky isn't the only one with some type A tendencies in the family... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I don't think America has got being anal about safety on it's own. We're regulated to death on safety issues down here.
It's quite funny but we down under have a picture of America as being a terribly unsafe place in general. I know I'm more worried about DD in the USA than I was the whole time she was in Europe.
I know that wasn't your point. I see what you're saying but that isn't really what came through in your post.
I cannot find your previous posts today. But just to say that a sure sign of character is that you rise to the occasion when occasion presents itself. You have done that. I am totally impressed with both the way you are handling yourself and how you communicate your actions.
Kudos!
Thanx Todd...the feeling is mutual! All of you guys have helped me get to where I am today...I have used your encouragement and examples as strength. I am trying hard to keep moving forward.
It is hard work to move ahead but a simple slip can cause an effortless backslide...what's up with that?
I left the first post and edited the second post. I went and read the poster's original post. It is a mess. They also aren't married in the strict sense.
We don't have Curb Your Enthusiasm here yet. I will look out for it. You know the only Seinfeld episode I didn't think was funny was when George's fiancee licked the stamps. I know they were writing her out but it never gelled with the rest of the show.
I was reading through the past hours...that is why it took me so long to respond.
Curb Your Enthusiasm has much more dry humor and outrageously obnoxious...I hate stupid humor...a bone of contention with WH as he LOVES it but CYE is something we both enjoy (at least I think)
Thank you for your kudos...I'm trying
WH spending day with DS...seemed aggravated about the whole thing so hope it turns out to be a great day of good memories for both of them...DS sure needs it
WH came home last night as if status quo...no mention of whether he is moving or not...I'll give it some time over w/e and see what happens and then if no mention I'll address it...I detest game playing almost as much as Stph20 hates no SF
Stph20 can come visit my home...I need to do some painting and home improvements...lack of SF has never motivated me to be more productive...guess it's not up there on my ENs
Anger can fuel me to flip a house in a week though! I am seriously going to take up shooting as a means of anger managment...I bet ML has some experience with that coming from her part of the great US of A
Anger can fuel me to flip a house in a week though! I am seriously going to take up shooting as a means of anger managment
So what is the most powerful handgun you have ever fired? Mine was a Thompson Center Contender with a .30-06 barrel. I have fanned the triger on a Ruger 44 Magnum but I have never been kicked like that Thompson.
I am no expert in handguns...in my field you only have to qualify with an M9...which I have...in my past life over 15 years ago I used to shoot skeet but have shot nothing but my mouth for the past decade except to qualify for professional requirements. I have always been intrigued by the accuracy and power of arms but intimidated by the safety issues surrounding them especially now with kiddo's to think of.
I have looked into the local ranges/gun clubs and think I am going to seek guidance from an expert to explore this new interest...at least it will also prepare me for any adventures I get sent on in the future... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
MelodyLane is the "mean" one and Pepperband is the...no...that doesn't work. I thought I was on to something. Guess not. Gee I hope I don't end up being Sarie for this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Dat you, Sarie?? **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
For the record, I don't really think that poster in question is Sarie, I was being naughty. Her story and character were similar, but that is where the similarities stop. They aren't the same person.
Todd, I am very sorry you were triggered, but glad you are back. Like you, I found the lies and rationalizations offensive and repugnant.
I am glad you are back, too, Todd.... the only way I could keep myself from not continuing to be ML's echo and not see my temperature RISE....was not to post at all for a bit!
I have seen and heard other WS's 'excuses'.... but I always thought deep down that it was because they didn't know better or were NOT told how their actions made others suffer...etc etc etc
Hearing FC continually 'twist and turn' what we all were trying to tell her..... and use IT to continue justifying that she was the 'exception' inspite of it all....
made me want to just SCREAM!!!????
I would agree with Pio, the only thing I can be thankful for in seeing FC's 'rationale' is that it has made the 'reality' of a WS and their thought process sooooo much clearer...
I could just not believe it!.... I found talking to FC like hitting my head against the wall..... now.....I know better....it will only give a very very big HEADACHE!
I once went to Ecuador and located the equator. As soon as I stepped across the equator (which is much taller than frequently reported), I fell down. Of course I was perched on the edge of a cliff but still.....
LOL...that's funny, Todd... and yes, I am a few pages behind, trying to catch up, AGAIN!
BigK, I think stph20 is catching on waaaay too quickly, don't you think?
Quote
Do you think I can Plan A BigK into letting me have SF again?? Maybe if I act like I don't want it, he'll loosen his ban on me....something to think about.
BigK, I think stph20 is catching on waaaay too quickly, don't you think?
Quote
Do you think I can Plan A BigK into letting me have SF again?? Maybe if I act like I don't want it, he'll loosen his ban on me....something to think about.
Check into a stock car racing course. You pay money to go take lessons and drive around the course really fast in stock cars. Might make a great couples vacation.
We have actually talked about doing this before. If he comes home, I'll mention it again.
There are 2 different types of stock car racing: asphalt (ie. NASCAR) and dirt track. I love NASCAR, I hate dirt. WH likes NASCAR, but LOVES dirt. So it's the dirt track racing that he wishes I liked more and would go with him to. And I'll make the effort to understand his passion for it.
Kiwi, I scrapbook too, and WH doesn't understand why I enjoy it, but he has always supported it, and I haven't always supported him and his racing...but OTOH, it's literally an obsession with him. His drug of choice. But anyway, as BigK said, it's on down the road before we talk about anything like that.
and just wanted to share....( or not....seeing that I miss the high traffic periods here on a very regular basis and end up doing monologues..or soliliquies..... whatever!)
Here is MY metaphor??!!!! of life....
(I KNOW I can count on you English majors to straighten me out on the right grammar terminology!)
I wanted to have orange juice.... but realized I only had lemons...
soooooooo.... being the smart person that I am I realized the best I could do with lemons is make lemonade!
So....I am enjoying my lemonade....it's not what I wanted, but it really is not soooo bad!
Now...what is totally possible... is adding a touch of, say.....vodka
Last winter I was sick....had been sick for weeks. Had taken to having a nightly hot toddy to get me to sleep. Then, one day, I ran out of whisky, bourbon, whatever....so I made my toddy with lemon juice, hot water, sugar, and light rum........
I'm still struggling with trying to understand your philosophy. But I would try tequila just for grins. Not a white one and not a really good one. Although not a good tequila all by itself, Joe Crow 1800 mixes well. Have you ever tried "sangrita"? You can drink almost any tequila if you drink it along with sangrita. You don't mix them though - two separate glasses.
Well if my mental calculations are correct, WW has left her sister's house and is in DF. She spends the night there and leave for Miami tomorrow.
I got a surprise last night. When I got home from work, the DDs rooms were clean. Almost all the Bratz were clothed and shod. We are missing one t-shirt so one of the Bratz only has on a satin jacket. She is showing a lot of cleavage but she is "decent". Actually she looks pretty hot. It's a nice style on her. Oh and DD1 did her homework without complaining. Someone has replaced my children with well behaved lookalikes.
I ordered the cheesecake yesterday. It will be interesting to see how close they get to what I asked them to write. I don't have high hopes. It's the thought that counts right? Now I hope I remember to pick the cake up... Still need to remember to fold the blanket over. What else?
Well I am eating plenty of ruffage so things are going okay.
Quote
I know you are keeping busy which is excellent but what is happening in your head and heart?
Oh - THAT'S what you meant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I tried to watch Apollo 13 last night but I feel asleep. I will try again tonight. I have to get the earth back in the window. So far I still can't see anything and it's a bit scary.
Hi Todd! Yipee! Glad you're back. Gawd, the NC thing...how much hurt are you trying to inflict on yourself? What are you hoping for when you see her & why do you think your WW will have changed?
I didn't read everything since I was last on but as ususal I see reference to SF. STOP THAT! There are people here who have gone years "being alone". Did I not get that right?
Cute Pio! I spent the whole day doing pottery things with my pottery buddies I'm bound (with what? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) to have a pottery mouth.
DD1 was reading about Matthew and Tilly for homework last night. Matthew and Tilly get into a fight and start calling each other names. The call each other stupid, stinky and something else I forget. Anyway. DD1 won't say the word "stupid". Every time she reads it, she substitutes a high pitched "beep". No matter where that word occurs in the story, she "beeps". I am going to have to start paying more attention to what channels they are watching on TV. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
OK, since there was talk of food & SF the is a way to combine both, no I don't mean going out for dinner than after... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I saw it on a show on HBO called Real Sex. In one episode some people, they were British, you may wonder how I knew they were British when they weren't wearing their sandles & black socks, but that's another story. Any way, these people all shared a fetish. It was mixing sex & food. They would rub foods like baked beans, cakes, puddings, etc. all over each other while naked. Rather gross really. Thankfully they didn't show what happened after the rubbing.
There was a Seinfeld about that where George had to sneak food into bed so he could enjoy SF. Baked beans though... Only in England. Whipped cream? Maybe...
Gawd, the NC thing...how much hurt are you trying to inflict on yourself? What are you hoping for when you see her & why do you think your WW will have changed?
I honestly don't know.
Quote
I didn't read everything since I was last on but as ususal I see reference to SF. STOP THAT! There are people here who have gone years "being alone". Did I not get that right?
So why do you need 5 different glazes? How many different glazes are there?
I have a stool that I don't use. It came with a table we use for the microwave. I'm thinking of inverting my drill press and fixing the tool seat to the chuck and making a pottery wheel. It's just a concept so far.
How many glazes would I need to start? Can I use a microwave as a kiln?
I don't know Todd, if I had to take a wild guess I'd say you just want things they were at one time in your married life. That coupled with a few other things make you keep going back to your WW.
Your kids & their view of the family, your desire to have someone beside you during this health crisis, not wanting the huge changes ahead if you D, unwillingness to see the changes in your WW as the real her or at least the new her. There's likely more but this is what comes to my mind immediately.
I know I didn't want to let go the dream I had in my head of my marriage & my family. But so much of it was what I wanted ex to be, what I saw for myself in my life. It took adjusting but I KNOW I'm better off. I could not live with a man who can not be emotionally intimate with me, a dishonest man, a cheater, a liar. You know, the list goes on.
Pio, please don't show us a picture as you work your way up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
And Todd, there's nothing wrong with you for wanting your W back, but they WW is another story.
I accepted ex back fairly certain he was cheating, willing to take his word he wasn't or at least thinking we/I could work around it. Talk about not doing the right thing at the right time. I think I might be the poster child.
No George was not being alone. He was in the middle of foreplay, had to take a second, came out from under the covers and pulled out a slice of pizza from the bedside table. He broke up of course. Later he got into a fight with a woman who was baking cookies in her kitchen. She had the same "problem" as George. They ended up on the kitchen floor with cookies flying everywhere.
Now Pio, I can't decide if you need help with your self esteem or not. A man who would post his picture in pink shorts, working in his WW's garden, talking about ordering cheese cake for her return, telling DD's they need to show you some respect for your hard work doesn't strike me as a man who needs help with his self esteem.
That episode escapes me. I like the one where Newman & Creamer get the bright idea to return cans & bottles to Maine because you can get an extra 5 cents for them there. They take a mail truck to do it. I know, kinda boring due to no SF stuff in it but still funny.
Isn't that the one where Kramer adopted a part of the highway and decided to add extra lanes to the highway and got the lines painted wrong? I just remember the truck exploding.
Rob and I have just been watching a hilarious thing unfold on our street.
It's Sunday afternoon and we live at the end of a cul de sac. We've been watching three young teenage girls wandering up and down the street, giggling and squealing and sitting on the side of the road. One of them got up and called out "hellooo" to one of our neighbour's houses. Then they all got the giggles and ran to the top of the street again.
I said to Rob "mark my words, there's a teenage boy somewhere in this vicinity." He said "duh".
Sure enough a van soon starts backing out of our neighbour's driveway. I had just gone inside and I heard the unmistakeable noise of a puncture. Tee hee, he'd backed into something sharp. Out gets a teenage boy, looking horribly embarrassed. The girls all giggle some more and take off up the street, leaving him looking at his lopsided van.
The mating dance of the very young. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have decided that larousse with all her dictionaries works for a Mexican manufacturing company that exports to the US and Canada. I am looking at my desk. I have new (120V) speakers for the PC's upstairs, DVD jewel cases, recordable CD's etc. and everything is labeled in English and french. Even though there are only about 100,000 people somewhere in Canada that speak french, we cannot offend them. Forget that 2/3rds of the population of the USA speak native Spanish. Not one single word in THAT language. We should just embargo Quebec. It would make life much simpler. (Don't tell luna I said that)
One can never have too many glazes. Beside the skill with which one makes their work, the uniqueness, though pottery's been around for a gazillion years so unique is a misnomer, glazing techniques & colors set one's work apart. Plus, the same colors over & over, even when you know they are dependable, gets boring.
If I buy 5 new glazes & one of those is a keeper I feel fortunate. You don't just slap it on & have it come out as the company has shown. It's all a crap shoot. As a matter of fact many people quit pottery or stick with only what they know works because of the failure rate.
Kiwi, my oldest son, all really are good looking boys. And I don't think it's just my opinion but...Any way when he & I go places I see girls look at him & smile hoping he'll look back. Sometimes they huddle close, poke each other & point & giggle & I wonder why they don't just pull themselves apart & say "Hi". He gets embarassed & doesn't look at them which they probably take as aloofness. If they only knew he's scared too...Boy am I thankfull to not be a teenager.
I think it is very sweet of you Pio to try to entice Todd back by talking of tools & doing some french bashing.
I would not have brought up WW stuff had Todd not addressed it earlier. If I've disturbed you Todd, I'm sorry. Shall we talk of SF & food & how no SF really is sucky?
Even though I was one of 4 girls I was never a girly girl & I never understood the hurd or huddle mentality. I don't think I have ever grabed onto a girlfriend's arm & giggled & pointed at & a boy in my life. Now, men, yes...what's not to giggle at?
I'm afraid I have injured myself horribly. I really love my new combination accunozzle showerhead. The main part is wonderful and is 12" in diameter. I always keep it set on the "soothing Orinoco rain/Amazon mist" setting. The head has to be that large to have all this printing on it. Anyway, I use it for washing head/torso but I have a handheld showerhead for washing below that. All I have to do is rotate the valve handle on the T connector and the water switches from one to the other. Anyway, I always keep the handheld part adjusted to the "Colorado Mountain Stream" setting. I don't use the massager part so I have no need to change it. So I finish washing my upper body, grab the handheld and position it where I will need it and then turn the valve over so the water comes out there. For some reason, apparently the maid either inadvertently or intentionally rotated the setting ring to "Bonzai Tsunami Crusher" when she was cleaning the bathroom yesterday. No idea why she did that but now I'm speaking in a very high pitched voice and can't walk. I also see nothing but red fonts.
Okay I think I figured out which was the bad word and I changed it. Man you people have one-track minds down there. Must be all the blood in your heads from standing upside down. Speaking of, where is BigK anyway?
I look outside this morning and saw a full moon. That means my misery is half over.
You didn't need to change it. It's a perfectly acceptable word in the rest of the world.
D'ya know something else? I didn't know that full moons were world wide. I don't know why I thought that. The full moon here at the moment is exceptionally bright.
the phase of the moone depend on whether we or it are closer to the sun. Just shadows. The only other possibility is a lunar eclipse when the earth gets in its way.
I don't think they exist any more. As I remember they were members of a cult started by some Korean/American guy back in the 70's. They weren't the ones who drank the kool aid or the ones charred to a crisp by the FBI though.
Nite, BigK, gee I didn't know you still SAW him sometimes.
OM in addition to being our (former) next door neighbour coached my elsedy son at Football last year. (Australian Rules Football - not soccer).
This year his son had indicated he was not going to play. My middle son is a talented player and as an U15 year old, we decided to play him in the local U18 competition as OM had indicated he would be involved in an U16 competition.
Unfortunately, OM's son at the last second, decided to play and OM then became a trainer/runner/whatever in my son's team. So because of that, my wife hasn't seen him play a single game this year but I didn't think it was fair for him to have to change teams so I went and watched him all year, unfortunately meaning I was in weekly contact with OM all year.
The maggot, entitled and selfish as ever he was, told son that next year he is coaching that team so he will have to change clubs next year. Very hard for him. He has played in that club since he was 9.
SO last night was the team presentation, last time hopefully I will ever see him.
Goodnight Nams. Thank you for your earlier post concerning why I am having difficulty with WW at this time. I haven't ignored it, I just need to contemplate my feelings.
[color:"green"] Thanks for the link to the article about long distance relationships Todd. There's not ring, yet. The fact that BF has gone somehow silent about it makes me think he may be getting really serious. Usually he does that when he's planning to 'really' do something. I may be wrong. I don't feel that worried about it so far, we both had agreed to decide our place of residence on December. We'll see. The green color was to provide some Pre Christams spirit to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [/color]
Kiwi,
I was a teen that kept crushes on boys for years. I would see them walk and 'admire' them for afar. I was always the wrong age for them. Too young mostly. I hadn't see most of them but do wonder what became of them. I know no to go into those waters. Ugh.
Pio,
Man you are an exhibicionist, what is left to know about you, we even know how you shower your up and lower part, how you exfoliate. Wait, I really don't want to know what is left to know. Keep the mistery, please.
BK, I'm glad you admire Todd fashion sense. He's learnet that pink is pink but not all pinks are the same.
::::::::::::: I have been painting the bathroom ceiling, windows frame and door and trying to convince myself that I enjoy doing it. The gloss painting was already prepared and I had to work as fast as I could so it wouldn't get to 'heavy'. I'm in some kind of painting fumes high, if I sound more ilogical than usual is because of that.
Sorry BigK. Things seem to go in circles in TKO. It is truly a bummer about OM's involvement with DS football. I know someone on the other site who has to work the concession stand with OW during their sons' baseball games. Talk about close quarters.
BTW, how does your W explain not attending the games to DS?
Ok, Kiwi, I'll send it. If something goes wrong I could always say that you made me do it.:)
Big K, I'm not sure I understood who coaches who but it sureley must have been difficult to see him every week. I admire your strenght and sense of fairness and honor.
Pio, some pats in the back may help them to spit, as if it were a child with something stuck on the throat. Lol.
It's funny Jen - NC is for everyone not just the WS. I do think I underestimated the impact to me of seeing the maggot every week. I am glad I no longer have to put up with that. Although, having said that, the piece of chit is actually over the road visiting some other neighbours right now.
It's funny, when we moved out of our home after the affair, I was still working from home. My wife just refused to ever come here for fear she would have contact with him. But he doesn't care about coming back for visits to other neighbours.
I hereby predict that Nams' smoke alarm will grow a new battery, start beeping and cause their dog to howl which is turn will wake up Nams who will turn to TKO to get sleepy. Hey, wait a minute Nams! Are you saying that we make you sleepy?
And then, the smell of fresh wall paint will awaken 2much who will again impress with her grasp of her situation.
Then Luna will awake (do I need to explain why?) and on her way back from a cold shower, will click on the puter to see what TKO is up to.
Not rude but nasty. But it does remind me of a line that a guy I used to work with had. I guess I will have to keep it to myself. It violates the spirit of TKO. Of course, if I am begged.....
BigK, how did you stop yourself from punching him right in his weasely OP nose.
It's funny Jen but I have managed to maintain incredible self control over the whole affair. I used to amuse myself with thoughts of giving OM some baseball bat carpark counselling but I don't even do that anymore. Maybe I'm getting over this?
Of the thousands questions that prevent my sleeping I wonder why only Australia has Koalas. Life is not fair, if they could only see how many eucaliptos we have for them.
Why thre are not koalas not even in NZ? The Australians would be so bored just with themselves that God gave them a fury present to compensate their solitude?
(I know who is going to twist that innocent phrase.)
Todd you have found your new predictor (lol) profession. Er... Do you accept bribes?
Of course I accept brides. Circulated currency please.
Allow me to peer into my crystal ball. I see BF in front of a gumball machine. He inserts a quarter (inflation) and out comes a diamond ring. You will see it placed on your finger when the two of you next meet.
Thanks Larousse. My kids were fantastic during my wife's affair. I was so proud of them. WHen she left home to shack up with OM she told them that they could go and live with her and OM when they got their own place. They turned her down flat. "No thanks - we're staying with Dad"
Are you bragging Todd? That means that you are a highly circulated...
I have many regrets about my earlier escapades larousse. Fortunately, they go back many years ago and my conscience has healed greatly. If I do D my WW, I would be completely different these days. Okay, not completely different, but, well, you know what I mean, right? These days one has to be because of all the STD's in circulation.
Quote
Todd, I'm really worried about your preferences... Besides the up mentioned there is butter and fire. Are you sure you are not posting from Belleveu?
Of course, Bellevue, Washington is also the location for Microsoft's headquarters I believe. I wasn't sure if she was saying that I was a mad genius like Bill Gates or simply mad as in Bellevue Hospital in NYC.
I have ripped and edited 20 minutes of soccer video down to 6 minutes and then converted it to MPEG4 and WMV. I am now squeezing down the MPEG4 to both a high bandwidth and low bandwidth version and I will upload them tonight and post the URLS in my sig line.
Okay I think I figured out which was the bad word and I changed it. Man you people have one-track minds down there. Must be all the blood in your heads from standing upside down. Speaking of, where is BigK anyway?
Alright.....guess it's going to be me who will ask the obvious.....as we could always use a good laugh......what WORD are we talking about, please?
Well I admit I never saw the question. I can't always keep up with the thread.
You need to reword the question because I don't see any challenge at all with gemela coming back. There is no downside risk (I have nothing to lose). I just don't see any "value added". How is her coming back going to improve my life? I just don't see the benefit to me for her coming back.
Do I want to get sucked back into that quagmire of distrust? Wondering what she is doing behind my back? She can be doing all those things in Mexico quite easily but I don't care. It is when she does them here that it bothers me. I don't know why that would make a difference but it does. I don't feel like I am married right now.
The maggot, entitled and selfish as ever he was, told son that next year he is coaching that team so he will have to change clubs next year. Very hard for him. He has played in that club since he was 9.
I don't know how you do it, BigK, to keep your composure around him...
This kind of behaviour is sooooo typical of WSs...just the words 'entitle and selfish' right now get my blood boiling! GRRRR! ...the least he could do is coach another team... and do some 'damage control' and not let your son PAY for his choices..... but then that would have meant he would have been 'considerate'...wouldn't it?
Good thing I am on the other side of the world...as I wouldn't be much help to you..... actually, you would have another problem on your hands..... trying to hold LUNA back from ********** his a******* . I suspect some 'transferring' is coming into play here...... as I have never met the scoundrel! GRRRR!
Sorry Todd to disappoint you on the accuracy of your predictions...it's ok weatherpeople make inaccurate ones all the time and still get paid, you may be able to continue it as a hobby
Nams, you mentioned being the poster girl for "what not to do"...I thought I had the patent on that one! Good to know I have quality company
Larousse...LOL soooooo hard at your "pink secret"
BK, first your boys are gorgeous and look like models...Pio had a hysterical comment cuz your one son does look like one of the Gotti boys...both you and your wife are lookers as well.
I don't know how you restrain yourself around OM either. B/c of the # of OW I have basically transferred my negative feelings toward all OW to WH since I blame him and not them (except for the 1 he had long EA with that visited my home and stayed in my home several times all the while...I loathe her and would love to tell her what I think but don't think it would be productive). I actually have gifts that she bought me that I use daily...probably not very therapeutic
I have joined Stph20 in the no SF...WH is clueless on why
Luna, you are so funny...I'll team up with you to kick BK's maggot's butt...I'll just envision OPs and WH while we are doing it...oh, I forgot...unless we win an all expense trip down under we'll have to do it virtually...boo-hoo
Pio, sounds like you have things pretty much in control. I'm jealous...I wish WH were in Mexico, I think I would find peace with him gone just like you did with G...I don't care what he does as long as he is not here but it is way to disrespectful to do it in my face and that is where I'm at
WH is trying to play the "if I don't address it, it doesn't exist game"...so last night after he had been out wherever for 5 hours he comes home and expects me to do just that...act like there is nothing wrong and try to get some SF...consistent refusals by me...he kept asking why and was joking with me...I didn't take the bait by getting upset or answering...if I had provided the reason it would only have ended up in a big blow-out
I had an idea that you guys may be interested in...
I read all of these posts and wonder how is it that there are so many people here who sound like they are the whole package and have so much to offer but are in this abyss of misery...I know we're all human and no one is perfect
Am I the only one thinking why can't my spoude be like BK, Todd, Pio, Kiwi, Nams, Larousse, Luna and all the other wonderful people here...how did I get hooked up with the king of disappointment????
Soooooooooooo...I was thinking to keep it real maybe we could all list the top 3 challenges we have had in our M's or relationships that stem from our behaviors or personalities and how we have tried to improve in those areas...anyone in???
Just to set the record straight.... I never lived in France..... although I probably wouldn't mind.... if only not to upset you, Todd... (Kiwi, are you listening???? ....)
BTW.... I thought members were not allowed to send private emails to members of the opposite sex.... is that right, Kiwi?
...or I am going to lobby the moderators to change some rules...... so that deletions of posts be delayed by at least one day....or until LUNA has read them...LOL!
Am I the only one thinking why can't my spoude be like BK, Todd, Pio, Kiwi, Nams, Larousse, Luna and all the other wonderful people here...how did I get hooked up with the king of disappointment???
Sorry but I am the king of disappointment and I am not aware that I abdicated. I think gemela has it far worse than you.
...or I am going to lobby the moderators to change some rules...... so that deletions of posts be delayed by at least one day....or until LUNA has read them...LOL!
Well I have this thread on my favorites toggle and in My Profile, I have the option selected to receive emails of posts to my favorite threads so I get all the original posts with no edits. Just FYI. It is far easier than fighting with the mods.
Am I the only one thinking why can't my spoude be like BK, Todd, Pio, Kiwi, Nams, Larousse, Luna and all the other wonderful people here...how did I get hooked up with the king of disappointment????
My thoughts on this, 2much... is that when we married our spouses they were not WS....
Both myself and WS, initially, were totally committed to having a family, kids, etc. etc.
Both had/have the potential to become a WS.....
The one difference I notice between a BS and a WS..... is that a BS is better at protecting the 'weaknesses'...and better at respecting the committment to M and family
I find a WS may not be as aware of 'weaknesses', or does not consider them too seriously, or may be too proud to admit to them, may have problems with boundaries (and this may be due to 'baggage' that required some 'work' which was not done)..... until it's too late.....and faced with the hard work of fessing up to bad choices and repairing the damage.... chooses what at first seems to be the 'easier' road.... and avoid the WHOLE MESS!
...but I also see a WS who does not want to do the hard work....choosing to go down further and further down the path of denial, selfishness, lies, chaos, shame, regrets (to name a few)
I also know that, even though I am not a BS by choice.... I have learned a lot about myself through the process of surviving an A... and have had to dig deep to find the strength and courage to first, stay afloat, and then to continue to fulfil my responsibilities towards those I that I care for..... and this has set me on a path of self-discovery
...and, believe it or not, I care about my S very much.... and I strongly believe that PLAN B, if it is at first and foremost a choice to protect me from the self-destruction path WS has taken, I do believe that as a secondary benefit, it is an action that will also help WS 'face' the consequences of his actions... and hopefully to realize that a healthy R cannot be maintained with attempts to justify one's actions with excuses, lies, denial and rewriting of history, etc.
...which is why, given a choice, I would rather be a BS than a WS...
First I look and say, WTH is a "spoude"...great spelling on my part...maybe a new name for WH?????
Luna...thank you...you made my day and yes I agree about the journey of self-discovery, I'm just frustrated and emotional today...I am plagued by the PMS hormones which always like to wreak havoc on my stormtrooper emotions and prove I really am a marshmallow on the inside...hate to face the truth myself at times...ok always...confession...I detest confrontation as much as lies and game playing which of course is why this sitch has gotten to this level...DEFCON 3...I must now step away from the keyboard and regroup
First I look and say, WTH is a "spoude"...great spelling on my part...maybe a new name for WH?????
Hey 2much.
How are you?
Don't feel badly. I typed bride for bribe and completely changed the meaning of what I had intended. There is no shortage of those in this thread seeking to capitalize on Fruedian slips. I never understood fully why Frued wore slips. I guess to hide his legs.
....did you miss the one about my inner conflict of SF while in PLAN B?
Yes I did. Just like you have never seen the post about my dream which has been the single most significant event of my adult life. I doubt anyone could find it now. It is long buried here in another thread.
...seeing that my philosophy is, more or less, that there is only a very thin line separating a BS and a WS...and that we are all vulnerable.... and that the best defense to NOT having an A really lies in self-discovery.... and that a WS may just be taking the long way home by losing his/her way....
...I realize that I work with images..... and I do see our lives as a land filled with beauty but also mines... that will explode in our faces if not detected.... the sooner they are located....the better we can deal with them!
...I also think this might help you to see G. as someone who needs help... who has taken a wrong turn.... but, bottom line, who wants the same things as you....cares very much about you....her beautiful two daughters...her family.....but she has JUST lost her way and right now can't figure out how to get back on track.....
...maybe...if you could keep this thought in mind.... you will see G. more as a 'lost soul' rather than an enemy of your M and little family out to harm you..... and see if you can it find in your heart to give her another chance (even though she may not be deserving of one), give her the time and patience (given the major error in judgement she has made) and the space to try to make it up to you (even though she knows very well she can never fully do that)....
...how to do this..... while at the same time 'protecting' yourself and the father of your two daughters from harm.... is what I consider to be the challenge you are facing...
...and you know what Pio?.... I think you will rise to the occasion, one way or the other... your family needs a 'hero'... and I think you are MA MAN!
((((((((((PIO)))))))))))))))))
Quote
I will need to catch up, again….but thought I would start the day with this post to you all (before I forget what I want to say)!
The ‘moment’ has passed…and thanks to you all…without toooo much damage done!
I intend to stay on course and ‘stick it out’ as I promised myself…the two-year mark before getting a D paper….that way, I will be at peace with myself, no regrets, knowing that I will have given S a chance and enough time to ‘resurface’ should he want to…..
…which is why you are all getting a big cyberspace hug from me
(((((((((((TKO group))))))))))))
(in particular, you Todd, …are you listening Kiwi???…LOL!)
Had you not all been there…for me to come to…and put myself ‘out there’ FIRST…I would not have seen what I saw…and could have gotten myself into a lot of trouble!
What I saw… was a person on her way to ‘losing herself’…no more no less…getting herself on a path that I now believe…a WS may initially take….and DOES get lost, and that is: justifying acting on IMPULSE… (or even worse, acting on impulse then needing to justify it….as would be, I think, more true to the scenario of a WS)
When I heard myself asking you all, and myself: Why not?? WS has moved out… WS has chosen to be with OW…. WS has dumped me… my needs are not being met and they should… and the cruncher: a D is only a piece of paper, AFTERALL!
I heard a little voice in me telling me: OK, kiddo…if a D is only a piece of paper, then first get it…. before getting involved with anyone else…in ANY WAY!
…to do it any other way…would mean compromising my standards!
As a responsible adult, I need to take care of myself, my boys, and the wider circle of all those ‘I care for’….. and in particularly, my boys…because, if before they had two responsible adults in their lives…now one of them has taken a wrong turn (hopefully temporarily, or not!) and is taking the long way back home….or may stay lost…
The pressure is on, for me, to not lose my head as well!
When I saw myself lowering my standards for SF….. when throughout my life, for me, it only has meaning as an expression of a ‘special connection’ with another person…. I saw myself starting to take a path that could ‘spiral me down’…… because sex without a true ‘connection’….I believe is harmful to the soul…and will leave you lonelier than before…. and comparable to ‘prostituting’ my body…. trying to fill the hole that is in me right now……knowing that nothing, really, can fill it…..
For my own respect, and the respect of any other future person in my life….. as hard as it is…. I will have to continue on my path to ‘closing’ the door to one person…..before opening it up for another…..
It’s just the way it’s going to have to be!
As far as SF being fulfilled….it will just have to wait…. or take up suggestions made by Larousse, BigK, Nams, Todd, and others…..
Again, thank you, my friends, from the bottom of my heart….. I will forever be indebted to you all… because of you…I caught myself in the nick of time…. and was able to take the ‘shorter’ path HOME!
I am plagued by the PMS hormones which always like to wreak havoc on my stormtrooper emotions and prove I really am a marshmallow on the inside...
...actually, 2much...you are doing great since you are living with a WS!
...I lived with a WS, unknowingly for about 3 months, knowingly for a further 6...... by the end I was a real 'basketcase'.....don't have to bother reading my thread...according to PEP I was one of the worse cases..... and I BELIEVE Pep when she says something...
I am finding dealing with the challenges of PLAN B a piece of cake....compared to living with a WS!
I doubt anyone could find it now. It is long buried here in another thread.
....actually, Pio....that may be so for everyone else......expect YOU....given your superduper skills at spreadsheeting, statistical analysis, and referencing...
...please repost...or send it to me at my private email for me to read (are you listening, Kiwi?)... given the importance you are giving it....uhmmm......considering the thousands you have written... I am wondering: how come?
I know....curiosity killed the cat....good thing they have nine!
Must be something about this time of day here in TKO land that when I tune in the talk is usually about SF. Are we torturing outselves? Nah...can't be the time of day because SF, or lack there of, is so frequently the topic at hand. Go ahead somebody, Todd, Pio? make something naughty out of that at hand comment.
2much, did I read right that you just recently stopped having SF with your WH? You said when you said no recently & he couldn't figure out why, here's what you do. Get some really nasty pictures of what STDs can do to a body & when he can get his cake eating head out of his a.s long enough to look show him those. Oops, did that sound harsh?
2much has asked if we'd be interested in listing 3 challanges our behaviors or personalities brought to our marital relationships & what we've done to improve those things about ourselves.. I think I have that right, do I 2much?
I'll start.
1. conflict avoider. Now I will find a way to let people know what I have a problem with. It was mostly ex I avoided conflict with so I just have to make sure in my next partnership I speak up right away. I don't think it will be that hard actually because I cando it with my friends, family & co-workers.
2. I didn't know ex's EN's & assumed he had characteristics I wanted him to have. I will find out my next partner's ENs. I will not [censored] u me anything about anyone.
3. I can live with mess. I'd rather have things clean & put where they belong but not if I'm the only one doing the work; if I am I can let things go. I will understand & respect a persons need for an orderly environment & do my part to keep things that way.
OK, I'm talking to myself. That's alright I've got lots more to say.
Here's my next story:
When our D was clearly underway & I was seeing an IC I asked him one day way I was willing to put up with so much less than I wanted/needed to stay in the marriage. Of course he only asked me questions in return but that started me down the long path of trying to answer that question. I'm still not fully satisfied with the answers.
For example: In no particular order.
Why was I willing to live with ex when I suspected he was involved with someone else?
Why did I put up so much independent behavior on his part during our year of "recovery"?
Why during our marriage was I willing to tamp down my playfullness, my sense of fun?
Why did I take my emotional life & stuff it for so long during my marriage?
Why when it was clear ex wanted to D & I understood he was unwilling to work on his shortcomings/issues did I still want to be married to him.
Why was I willing to stay in a marriage with a man who could treat me the way he did, do what he did to our family? Was it really just for my boys?
Does anyone else ask themselves these questions? Do you have any good answers?
Why was I willing to live with ex when I suspected he was involved with someone else?
Why did I put up so much independent behavior on his part during our year of "recovery"?
Why during our marriage was I willing to tamp down my playfullness, my sense of fun?
Why did I take my emotional life & stuff it for so long during my marriage?
Why when it was clear ex wanted to D & I understood he was unwilling to work on his shortcomings/issues did I still want to be married to him.
Why was I willing to stay in a marriage with a man who could treat me the way he did, do what he did to our family? Was it really just for my boys?
Does anyone else ask themselves these questions? Do you have any good answers?
Very good questions, Nams.....and all I think apply to me, too.... now...about the answers...that's another story....I'll think about them....and will report back....
Must be something about this time of day here in TKO land that when I tune in the talk is usually about SF. Are we torturing outselves?
Now Nams,
I was referring to Luna's trip to San Francisco. It is merely a coincidence that the intials for San Francisco and Sexual Fulfilment are the same. Just a coincidence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
He is not concerned. It is likely a side effect of one of the medicines I take. It could also be an effect from the tumor pressing against the visual chasm, if that is the right term.
What I don't understand is that when I see red, it is typically for a moment or two. It basically flashes from black to red and toggles back and forth a few times. With a couple of Larousse's posts, hers look red all the time. Must be the line from Mexico to Minnesota.
Well...since I cannot keep this from you for very long....
here it is.....
A new crisis has come up....my dad had to have an operation back in August for intestinal problems.....was led to believe everything was OK and he was recuperating (keep in mind...my parents live about a day's drive away...I am basically told as little as possible where 'bad news' is concerned to not get me to worry!)
.... well....this past week....mom tells me that due to test results....dad is going to have to have a weekly TREATMENT for six months...the operation had not been as successful as expected....I am assuming mom is talking about CANCER...even though my mom never named it!
...my parents are from a generation who think that if you don't NAME it...it can't harm you as much..... to each his own defense mechanism!
...it may also be related to the fact that my mom is a breast cancer survivor of over 40 yrs ago...when my mom was a very young wife with two very young children.....at a time when the 'word' literally did mean a death sentence... there was ONE option.... and if it failed.... no other treatment was available... research has come a long way since then!
...anyway...to everyone's surprise....particularly my mom....she survived...to become her daughter's hero...and hasn't looked back since... she is the poster 'lady' of the saying: if it doesn't kill you, it will make you stronger......
OTOH, my dad is an introvert...worked very hard all his life to provide for his family....but is less of a 'fighter' when it comes to sickness... I expect my mom has her work cut out for her to keep dad's moral going!
Anyway...this means that I intend to take an unplanned first visit back to see my parents SOLO..actually I would be going with ma boys and big dog...
(since D-day....they have come to visit) and expect to be confronted by many TRIGGERS.... in addition to facing the fact that this time next year...who knows if my dad will be still alive!
I am not looking forward to the drive....it used to be shared...and God help me if I should have car problems!!!.... let's put it this way....I don't want to even think about it...
...if by any chance you see a SEXY mom with two beautiful boys and a big dog hitch-hiking.....please stop....that will be me!
It has been hours uploading but it is finally finished. 6 minutes of adulterated soccer video. Sorry about the size but web video is tough. I have uploaded several versions of varying quality. If you have the bandwidth, I highly recommend the big one. The faces come out much better.
I only recorded her first goal because my cameraman quit at halftime. It begins at about the 2:45 mark on the video. Right before that she got injured so I am just pointing out that she played hurt. The goal is sort of amazing. She is clearly a girl on a mission. Just after that she is stopped on another attempt but what I find interesting is the tenacity with which she tries (and succeeds) to get the ball back. Note the use of the elbow. Makes me proud.
As far as DD2 goes, well, she is not exactly olympic material.
I'll put the URLs in the sig line too.
I have mpeg, wmv and mp4 formats depending on what you view with. I didn't make a QT version. Sorry. The mp4 will play in iTunes. So go ahead and challenge your bandwidth.
luna, I'm sorry to hear about your father. Mine is 85 & has been hospitalized a few times over the past year for heart related trouble. I was lucky enough to see him today. He lives 2 hours away, nothing compared to a day's drive. My family does the exact same thing to me. I usually find out my father is having problems a few days after the fact. I know they mean well but it's annoying...
about 2much's challenge....and your own questions....
...the first thought that comes to my mind...bottom line... is that ALL is somehow related to some FEAR.....
...fear of being alone ...fear of losing our family ...fear of not being loved ...fear of not being accepted ...fear of not realizing our dream
...and so the question becomes.... how to better FACE our fears..... overcome them.... and not be manipulated by them.....
...and the only answer I come up with is: to dig deep down to find the strength and courage to do what needs to be done....INSPITE of the fear.... inspite of the urge for 'flight'.....
Why was I willing to live with ex when I suspected he was involved with someone else?
Nams, as I am sure you know, I am currently struggling with my own reactions and inability or unwillingness to NC with my WW so I am not sure I can offer any insight. But I will do my best.
The problem with infidelity is that a spouse takes something that is supposed to be exclusive and shares it with another. Discovery of an affair is such a great insult to the senses and emotions that one cannot help but come away from DD feeling insecure and tentative about the love their spouse has for them.
At the same time, BS love for the WS just doesn't simply melt away because of an A. The feelings of insecurity and loss can make the BS needy, even more needy than before DD. Hence, I believe it is natural for the BS to stay with the WS, at least initially. Also, I think most people believe in forgiveness and letting the ideals of marriage survive regardless of the impositions placed on them.
Quote
Why did I put up so much independent behavior on his part during our year of "recovery"?
Were you following MB and Plan A at the time? If so, then that explains it. If not, again, you were severely damaged by the one person who vowed to protect you and honor you. Who is best suited to repair the damage? The same spouse who brought hurt to you, hence one develops an unrealistic reliance on the likelihood of WS withdrawing from the fog and returning to his "good sense".
Quote
Why during our marriage was I willing to tamp down my playfullness, my sense of fun?
Are you a giver? That would explain part of it. My observation has been that most marriages consist of a giver and a taker. Perhaps a better sitch is to have a giver and a receiver, with the two playing both parts at appropriate times.
Quote
Why did I take my emotional life & stuff it for so long during my marriage?
Again, most people want their marriage to work and it becomes a habit of sorts. Continuing with a bad or unhappy marriage is the path of least resistance; getting out of one is extremely hard.
Quote
Why when it was clear ex wanted to D & I understood he was unwilling to work on his shortcomings/issues did I still want to be married to him.
Inertia. A body in motion, or in a marriage, tends to stay in motion, or in a marriage.
Quote
Why was I willing to stay in a marriage with a man who could treat me the way he did, do what he did to our family? Was it really just for my boys?
I read an article which claimed that the typical defense of “staying for the kids” is usually not accurate, that a spouse will stay in a marriage for various reasons, i.e., fear of the unknown, financial difficulties, fear of being alone, of scorn of ridicule of others who are still in marriages, etc. I used to believe that a couple should stay together for the sake of kids. I still believe that a couple should take extraordinary measures before D, but I also believe that there comes a time when D is the right answer as sad as it is. Hmm…..I just got off the phone with DS3. I need to read this paragraph over and over.
Quote
Does anyone else ask themselves these questions? Do you have any good answers?
I am so sorry to hear about your Father. I guess I can understand how a man's reaction to a disease can be so different to a woman's. Men, or at least myself, want to be invincible for their family. Be a good husband, good Father, good provider, teacher, etc. When disease strikes, it is such a setback to all of those things. My first reaction was: how do I tell my sons? I have been their Superman, almost literally. I have such a great relationship with my sons that I did not want to disappoint them with news of my tumor. I truly viewed it as a weakness on my part and I never wanted them to view me as weak. Since I have sons, I wanted to be the perfect role model for them.
Luna, if I can offer any advice, please let your Dad know that it is not his fault, as obvious as it may sound, and that you love him despite anything in the world. I know this is obvious to both of you, but trust me, he will be better for hearing it.
I just tuned in to the last 15-20 minutes of "Forest Gump". I saw the scene where Jen-nay tells Forest that he is the Father of little Forest. Instantly, Tom Hanks' eyes dart, then fill with tears and he asks as he steps away from Jenny: Is he like me or is he smart?
What an actor! I watched Cast Away last night and absolutely incredible acting. Anyway, just trying to get the thread back on topic.
Thanks bigK. I shortened them and they fit. I was counting characters and could not see how I had gone over 500 but I just deleted enough so that it finally accepted it. Obviously larger size is higher video quality (bigger is better).
Thanks Todd, for taking the time to consider my questions. I came up with pretty much the same answers you did & felt, still feel, they aren't satisfactory. They seem pat.
I guess I was expecting something more revealing, something that said more about me than I didn't want a difficult change. That's kinda what it boils down to.
Pio is talking about flowers, does that mean G is due home tomorrow?
I guess I can understand how a man's reaction to a disease can be so different to a woman's.
Todd...I knew the news would be hitting 'close to home' for you...
...and, yes, my dad took great pride in playing the role of the provider and protector... this must be hard for him to face that it may no longer be so....
he's not good with words...but, when I think of my dad, I think of the man who patiently waited in the car when he came to pick me up after work when, as a young student I worked part-time (worked a few nights a week and on weekends)... even if he had to get up early and was tired at night, he never ever missed ONE time from driving me to work and then coming back to pick me up..... he did this for YEARS.... this for me is the image I carry with me of a 'devoted' father...
Sorry Nams. I tried to post something revealing and earthshaking but I am afraid that I am at a similar point contemplating similar questions. And don't have any really good answers.
My father was in the hospital about a month ago. He had kidney stones. When I went to see him he'd just gotten back from a procedure. He was confused & a bit disoriented, I think from the medication. When I bent down to hug him he broke into tears, I can't remember seeing my father cry so I was very surprised. When I asked him what was wrong he told me he hated for me to see him this way meaning in bed & sick, weakened. Broke my heart.
Off topic is anything to do with infidelity so on topic has a wide berth.
Just finished watching a piece on Tennessee Williams.... and revisited some of his best plays and characters.... they showed some of the most memorable scenes of his plays (which were made into movies)....really enjoyable!
...won't go into toooooo much detail about his life.... let's just say he tried to ENJOY it as much as he could!
Well Todd, when you look around & see marriages breaking up it appears there are a handfull of reasons. When it happens to you it's so devastating it feels like there should be more to it than a spouse gets lazy or lets themselves stray. And when the time comes to decide to try to save the marriage there should be more than inertia motivating us.
Hi larousse! I figured you were out drinking tequila! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
larousse, I have a Spanish question for you. When people say que tal? I know it's a greeting like what's up, but when I look tal up in the dictionary I don't really get it. Can you explain it to me please?
So we are going to have the welcome home cheesecake but no flowers. Because of the way Spanish works, gemela won't know if the cheesecakes is from the DDs or the DDs and me. She will just know it is from people plural. (Should I consider the maid in that number?)
My family does serious disease denial as well. I think that is something we unherited from the nuclear generation and the baby boomers are finding a bit odd. Keep in mind that not too many years ago medical science did not have the knowledge and technology it has today. So I think the mindset evolved around that. Then we didn't expect a cure. Now we are upset when there is no cure.
Best to let the welcome home cheesecake look like it's from the girls IMO. G will know you had a hand but I think this kind of big welcome sends her the wrong message.
I guess 'Qué tal' is an idiomatic phrase that only makes sense togehter. 'Tal' is a preposición like 'that', it's the same as 'eso'.
In the context of a greeting it means more like 'how... good or bad is it going for for you?' it is a short version of Qué tal está... 'How is... the movie, or the game or the food' Qué tal está la película, Qué tal está el juego? Qué tal está la comida?
Let's see what Pio says about it.
No tequila for me. I hadn't bought a bottle since I finish the last one. Duh. I mean, I'm going to buy one when BF comes, I finished his.
::::::. Pio
I think Vanesa runs pretty well for her age. What's funny is the way they all stop when they get close to the 'portería'.
When it happens to you it's so devastating it feels like there should be more to it than a spouse gets lazy or lets themselves stray.
A friend of mine...a FWBF.....told me, when I asked him for some insight on how does an A start.....
...he told me...LUNA....you would not believe how easily an A can start... all it takes is the littlest gesture.... that at first seems quite harmless.... and before you know it....you're over your head in it!
Yes....the BS needs to see how they contributed to the deterioration of M and how to improve on that..... but a BS has no real control over what a WS chooses to do or not do....
The best measure I came up with....is to evaluate and to be continually VIGILANT about the level of respect that there is in R...which I have come to believe is THE cornerstone for any good R with anyone, whether it be intimate or with friends...where honesty will flow from it...where POJA would be welcomed...etc. etc. and to continually ask oneself whether or not the behaviour of our partner would be tolerated were it exhibited by a total stranger....in the most simplest situations...example, whether or not, if arriving late, S THINKS of calling and informing you.... (does this sound familiar?... did not one of your dates not do this?...bad..bad sign!)
...now....I am a morning person...would have liked to stick around for the high traffic period of the thread....but I think I will have to go and get my beauty sleep... I've got a big week ahead!
I have the impression that there has been no contact between G and PB for at least 5 months. So I would say that more than more plan A, Pio and G have to make a recovery plan.
Is Pio going for a Plan A approach? I thought he'd already been there done that.
My impression was though Pio would be pleasant, make home a place where G felt she was not an intruder, maybe even feel welcome, he wasn't going to do back flips to please her. I thought G was being put in a position to come back & show what her intentions are. Show what she has discovered about her affair & show Pio how she plans to make ammends for that & show how she plans to recover the M.
OK So I'm confused now. Exactly what message does Pio want to be giving Gemella? I'm thinking cheescake + flowers make a good plan A
I agree but if anything, Pio lingered waaaay too long in Plan A. I think he is in unchartered waters at this point. Caught somewhere between Plans A, B, C and D.
Is Pio going for a Plan A approach? I thought he'd already been there done that.
My impression was though Pio would be pleasant, make home a place where G felt she was not an intruder, maybe even feel welcome, he wasn't going to do back flips to please her. I thought G was being put in a position to come back & show what her intentions are. Show what she has discovered about her affair & show Pio how she plans to make ammends for that & show how she plans to recover the M.
I think nams is closer to my thought process. A Plan A-, if you will. It takes two to begin R. if gemela is not prepared for that, neither am I. I do intend to say and do all the correct things but I have little to no attachment any more. I need to get some motivation from gemela.
I was sitting on my bathroom floor this AM just thinking. (I do this a lot BTW - it is the only quiet place I really have in the house). I was asking myself why I don't feel anything at all about gemela coming back. I don't look forward to it and I don't dread it. It almost doesn't feel real. I just have the strangest feeling of non-feeling and I can't explain it or understand it.
Did you see DD's goal? I was directing other girls so I didn't really see it that night. Now I see it on video and I just can't believe it. Nothing was going to stop her. Last year she was nothing like this. She would have kicked the ball the first time and never gone after it. It makes me wonder what went through her head for that instant she was just standing there watching it and then she took off like lightning. I'm sure that poor little Reneé girl took an elbow or two to the face. Makes a daddy proud!
holitas, qué onda? I read you had inmigration manifestations on Atlanta. Ugh. There was someone with the phrase: "Mexico is not our friend" to which I would have replayed, "Has US goverment ever been our friend? " Is it a matter of either you are with me or you are against me... Oh well. I'm the only one who wants to import a gringo? Lol I never call him that by the way. He does call himself that. Lol.
Que tal makes no sense in English. I think it translates to something like "what of that". Many Spanish greetings are slang terms and vary by country. In Venezuela (excuse the language), the common expressions are:
¿Qué fue? (what did it go?) or the longer form: ¿Qué fue, pajarito?
¿Cómo está la vaina? (How is the bean pod?)
¿Cómo está la verga?) (How is the penis?)
This last one is used many times to greet a woman although it is considered a little rude. Some men say it and some don't. Some men will substitute "vaina".
In Venezuela, bothe words "verga" and "vaina" are liberally used simply to mean "cosa" or thing. In fact this makes it very hard to really learn Spanish in Venezuela because almost every thing is either a vaina or a verga. If you want someone to pass you a book, for example, you say "dame esa verga". If you lose something, "¿dónde está la verga?". I had to leave Venezuela and move to Mexico to learn that there were actual words for things like tables and chairs.
¿Cómo está la cosa? I have heard in Mexico and is similar to "How's things?"
Conversely, expressions like "what's happening?" or "what's up?" would not translate well into Spanish as a greeting.
I have two really great books: "1000 Spanish Modismos" and "Wicked Spanish for the Traveler". The second book is also available in German, french and Italian at the very least. The french version is particularly enjoyable and I highly recommend it for humorous reading.
Oh well. I'm the only one who wants to import a gringo?
It's just like when the policeman pulled me over in Tabasco and asked me why I didn't have a motorcycle helmet and told me it was unsafe and I could be killed. I replied "so that's one less gringo to you, isn't it?". He let me go. He said I had a good point.
I don't mean to offend but I am reading in the news that the US and Mexico are now fighting over a wall. First, if they build a wall, I am sure they will hire Mexican laborers to make it and they will construct it out of Cemento Cruz Azul so you guys will know where all the weak points are.
I was trying to put this in perspective. How would I feel if Canada decided to build a wall all along their border between them and the USA? Would anyone care? The only downside I see is that it would seriously limit the talent pool in Hollywood.
The fact that G was a cake eater says a lot about how Pio should proceed. If he welcomes her with grand gestures she may feel entitlement. If there is some reserve on his part she get the message it's her turn to step up to the plate. As she should.
G being a little fearfull of her return is as it should be. She was on vacation for how long? She was bored & wants to come back. I wouldn't welcome that with a band & parade.
The following accounts are true stories from my time in Mexico and can help save you some money in case you are "stopped" by the police. Now, being stopped by the police in Mexico is not actually very easy so, if it happens to you, you should already be embarrassed. The reason is that most Mexican traffic police do not actually have vehicles. They stand by the side of the street and flag you down. Now, if you don't stop, you are thinking that he will write down your license number and track you by computer. Rest assured that this would never happen - mainly because they either don't actually have computers or, to track you down, would require additional work with no compensation which is simply not in their best interest. So the trick here is "eye contact". If you avoid eye contact with the policeman, you can continue driving with no consequences. If, however, you happen to make eye contact, you must pull over. Failure to do so would be disrespectful and respect is very important in Mexico. If you are stopped, there are four directions you can take the conversation. I have personally tried three of them and all are equally good and effective.
The fourth option is to actually accept the ticket. Now, please understand that this is an option that neither you nor the policeman actually wants so both should work together to avoid it unless absolutely necessary. Accepting the ticket will not cost that much money but it will cost you one to two days in the police station and in court where you will suffer the additional indignation of being ridiculed for actually having gotten the ticket in the first place instead of going for one of the other three options.
Option one - the bribe or "mordida". Once I was driving along in Villahermosa with my future wife (Gemela) and her sister and I was probably speeding although the policeman had no radar gun to support his case so technically it was his word against mine (advice - never argue with a Mexican policeman). I already knew to avoid eye contact but, what can I say, this man just had a "presence" about him. He was a magnet. I could not have avoided looking at him if I had tried. He had truly missed his calling. The man should have been an evangelist but, him being Catholic, I am sure that is a conflict of interest. Oh well - damage done. I pull over. He walks up to the car and I roll down the window and he asks me for my license and tarjeta de circulación (registration). He makes a couple of notes and SLOWLY walks back to his motorcycle. Meanwhile, the three of us are in a panic and wondering what to do so we come to the consensus to try to offer him a mordida. My fiancée taps the horn to get his attention so he turns and comes back. Well Gemela says to him something like: "excuse me officer but isn't there some way we could resolve this situation which is an obvious misunderstanding" and reveals a 50 peso (5 U$D) note I had given her. He calmly says "double it". Well, I am thinking $10 dollars is not a bad way out of this so I pull out another 50 peso note and he says with slightly more emphasis "double it". Now I pull out a 100 peso note and he says "double it". Now I am starting to weigh the pluses and minuses of the bribe versus the actual ticket and am also starting to get a little perturbed at this guy's audacity but I now pull out a 200 peso note and hand it to Gemela and he is now becoming very angry and once again says "DOUBLE IT". Well, I am now out of money and also a little angry myself so I pull out my bank card and am about to say "here - take this to the cash machine. This is my PIN number. Take what you want" when he reaches in the car and takes the original 50 peso note and nothing else and folds (doubles) it so he can hide it, hands me back the license and registration and walks off. Obviously it was a language problem.
Option two - the language barrier: Another option to avoiding a ticket is the language barrier but does not always have predictable results - especially if, it turns out, that either he speaks English or you speak some Spanish. Remember that neither one of you actually wants to end this in a ticket and that usually won't happen if you both do your jobs. The problem is that it requires significant concentration to maintain the façade. If either one of you breaks down even for a second, the whole gambit is lost. It works like this: you start with "sorry officer but no habla español". This is bad grammar. It should have been "no hablo español" but you knew that - this is all part of the ploy. If you start conjugating your verbs correctly, it is your first sign of weakness and he will catch it. Once he does, he knows he has you and will try to "up" the negotiation. Now, if you hold fast and he cannot break you down, he MAY try to start speaking English because he doesn't want to let a fish off the line. If he does this, get a perplexed look on your face and say "WHAT?". Many Mexicans are embarrassed about their poor English so, rather than face further shame, he will give up at this point. If, however, his English is better than yours, it is now just a matter of negotiating price. You can get by with 50 pesos if you live there but if you are a tourist plan for something like 100 pesos. Trust me - he'll know the difference so don't haggle. If you have both been able to maintain your ignorance of the other's language and this is dragging on for an extended period, one ploy which I have successfully used on several occasions is to get out of your car, appear very agitated, throw down your keys and start to walk off. You won't get very far. The policeman will pick up your keys and motion you to get back in your car and just drive away. The LAST thing he wants to be stuck with is your car and you'll see why in option three.
Option three - be logical: I used to ride a Honda 1100cc Shadow (motorcycle) in Mexico. It was far bigger than any other motorcycle in the south of the country so mostly people left me alone. I never used to ride with a helmet which is strictly against the law in Mexico but is, as we all know, a safer way to ride because you have better visibility, better hearing and generally better awareness of all that is around you. Because Mexico has a helmet law but most people cannot afford helmets, it is not uncommon to see people riding around in hard hats or even imitation baseball batting helmets. Sometimes I used a "doo rag". I rode for years like this. Even the "federales" never bothered me and they are generally more strict. One day I got pulled over in Villahermosa by two police in a patrol car. I got off the bike and they approached and asked me where my helmet was. I explained I did not have one. They countered that I had to have one because it was the law in Mexico. Flawed logic at best but I let it go. One of them even went back to the car and brought back the book of ordinances and showed me that it said so in the book. He said that helmets were necessary to prevent injury. I told him that, if I had an accident, one less "gringo" would actually be an improvement. He had no argument there so realized I had him trapped so he goes back to the book again and asks me for my license. At this point I am oozing with confidence so I give him my license and registration. He looks at it and says "no - I mean your motorcycle license". Uh-oh. "What motorcycle license?" I ask and he says that, in Mexico, you need a special license for a motorcycle. I told him that this was the only license I had and knew nothing of a "motorcycle" license. He then adds "and, by the way, this license expired two months ago". (This is not going as I was wanting). I got out my cell phone and called the office and asked the secretary to send a car for me. I start unpacking all my stuff from the saddlebags and hand the key to the officer. He says "what are you doing? Do you really want us to impound the bike?". I told him I was in violation of several ordinances and I would just have to sort it out later and that I had to be at work right then. He said that I needed to follow him to the impound yard and get a receipt for the motorcycle and then I could go to work. I explained that a) I had no helmet b) had no motorcycle license and c) had no valid license at all so I could not possibly drive the bike to the impound yard - he would have to do it. He said that if he were to drive it and any damage occurred that he would be liable and I could sue him (he needed lessons in negotiation). I said that was his problem so he had better be extra careful with the motorcycle and not damage it. Poor guy. He was really frustrated. Things were not going his way. He finally handed me back my license and registration and said "I am giving you back your license so you will just......GO" but that I had better go buy a helmet. I got on my bike, left and never bought a helmet. I have to admit I think I got a little lucky here but I took a position of weakness and made it into a position of strength and got away with it.
Note: the above-mentioned price ranges apply to the "locales". If you get stopped by the "federales", the price is more in the 200 to 500 peso range depending on the infraction. Just remember - they don't want your vehicle either.
I am not aware of about which you are speaking. Was there a protest in Atlanta? If so, I aplogize for my narrow minded idiots. Like the Steppenwolf song goes, "you're so narrow minded that if you fell on a pin you'd be blind in both eyes."
It is interesting that the great immigrant waves of Germans, Irish, Italians and others were accomplished during a time when there was no mass communication. I think that is the differentiating factor these days. Too much coverage by the media, in fact, too much negative coverage.
We have many Mexican friends here who are doing nothing but working their a$$es off to better themselves. They are succeeding. Of course, those same idjiots would be campaigning against my WW and my sons. They best not be allergic to bullets if they do so.
...please repost...or send it to me at my private email for me to read
No I am not going to repost for my own reasons. I cannot send you an email because it goes against a very good guideline. If you and ToddAC can come to an agreement, I can send him the URL and he can email it to you. You two just let me know.
Pio, because I believe D is something people do much to easily, I hope G comes back to you with understanding, willingness & the desire to REALLY do the work necessary to make the marriage you both want.
I'll be thinking of you & hoping for an outcome you'll both be happy with.
'night all. See you tomorrow, the day after my b-day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> tee hee I learned that trick from Pio.
In one of the photos "Skipper Nick" has his arms around my DD and is very blatantly trying to cop a feel. She is holding everything in trying to escape his clutches.
I couldn't find it when I was attaching the photos to the album.
(Yes...I know.....this may end up being a monologue.... I still have a couple of pages that separate me from that 'reality'....)
OK....It is 7am on a Monday morning and I do not have the Monday morning blues (even if it's cloudy outside) ....why?...becauuuuse it's a holiday today here up in Canada (seeing that Quebec remains a part of it for the time being), and I am not going to work!
...actually, I enjoy my work.....but I am glad for this break.....just hanging out 'chez moi'...
...and the turkey tradition has gone out the wind...unless I want an intimate relationship with a...BIRD!
Actually....that is an American tradition....neither Italian nor Quebecois....but for me....any excuse is good to 'celebrate' and 'feast' with family and friends....
OTOH, don't have anything planned, but may have a few friends over tonight...improvisé....to share a terrific plate of SPAGHETTI! ...I make a not-so-bad spaghetti sauce....anyway...I am the only authentic Italian in my group of friends....and have been given the responsibility of maintaining the illusion that they are in 'direct' contact with an Italian... it seems to make them happy....why spoil the fun!
uhmmm.....I only have a couple of pages to catch up.... not a very 'busy' night, I see....
Quote
I agree but if anything, Pio lingered waaaay too long in Plan A. I think he is in unchartered waters at this point. Caught somewhere between Plans A, B, C and D.
Given this comment...I would like to ask both Messieurs Pio and Todd if you ever considered an appt with the guru of MB, Monsieur Steve....and see what was his take on your situation?
....I am wondering about your Lovebanks...
Also...Todd?.... have you found a support group, yet,...ALON..or something....to help you....and also your sons with your WS's alcoholic addiction?
No I never considered the Dali Lama himself. We had an MC here and reading SAA they both coincided on one thing - as long as there was still contact and the affair was ongoing, counseling was a waste of time. Gemela went to IC but we dropped MC. I have not written it off but I want to see some commitment from gemela before I spend any time or money on it.
Just curious about one thing though. Since it is Thanksgiving Day in Canada, what is it that you guys are actually thankful for? In our case it was getting away from religious persecution, bad teeth, bad haircuts and bad food. What is Canada's excuse?
When I asked him what was wrong he told me he hated for me to see him this way meaning in bed & sick, weakened. Broke my heart.
I know what you mean, Nams...dads want their little girls to think they can always count on them..... hard to admit when they're not up to it!
Actually.....I do have another MAN I can count on in my life......since WS has gone off his merry way.... and that is, datadatara.... MY B R O T H E R.....
I will limit myself to the bare minimum about him.... he lives in the same town as my parents....has a little family....with three beautiful kids....a very demanding job.... so again.....the best way I can help my brother is to help ME..... I LOVE MY BROTHER! .....were I to ask..... he'd be there for me in a flash!
....when people love you....they can be very vulnerable.... they COULD easily be manipulated..... and I take this responsibility very seriously....and don't want to abuse..... I make sure I do not ABUSE those that love me... that is how I love them back!
.....right now, this is what separates me from my WS......
...I don't have sisters....so I don't know what I am missing..... but I had a terrific brother....two years older.....we did not fight as children.... we were 'complice' in facing the challenges of growing up.... plays the 'big brother' protector role to a T!
....he's cute....funny.....terrific with kids (not just his!)..... just fun to be around....he's not perfect...has many faults (which unfortunately I can count on my SIL to point out!)....but I am so proud that HE'S MY BROTHER!
...the greatest gift those that I love have given me....when I think of them?..... a big smile and this great big warmth in my heart! ...and the feeling that I am the richest person on earth!
I cannot send you an email because it goes against a very good guideline. If you and ToddAC can come to an agreement, I can send him the URL and he can email it to you. You two just let me know.
....I see....Todd is your mailman, now....and it's OK for him to break the rules.....Geesh!
It's OK....Pio....I think Todd has enough to handle already....LOL!
Hi Luna. My wife is working late this week so I can keep company a little. How is your dad?
Hi BigK...thanks for asking...
...well..he's not a 'phone' person....but according to mom, nurses are still coming everyday to check up on the wound from his August operation.... they need to heal it before starting treatment because a side effect may be vomiting...and that would mean trouble if the wound has not healed enough..... knowing my dad...these things will tend to get him 'depressed'....
BigK....what was the big occasion on the photos? ...unless the boys dress up like that every day!
Quote
What is Canada's excuse?
I am not sure, Pio...I am not an 'authentic' Canadian....only 'neutralized'...... wait until we get to Halloween....what's up with the pumpkins??!!!!
Quote
I have not written it off but I want to see some commitment from gemela before I spend any time or money on it.
Pio...please read me again that last sentence.....that's what's called an: EXCUSE not to do it!
...I liked talking to Steve...he does a very good job of de-dramatizing....I certainly would encourage you to consider it if you have never talked to him!
...I found his plans very simple....just a couple of things to not lose sight of....but, of course....he's not in the business of MIRACLES!
...my WS is into a Romantic Affair...they are a tough cookie to deal with for a BS..... WS wants the fairytale image of love of his adolescent years to be true, AT ANY COST..... the only 'remedy' is to let REALITY sink in..and for me...to keep away!
...my WS is into a Romantic Affair...they are a tough cookie to deal with for a BS..... WS wants the fairytale image of love of his adolescent years to be true, AT ANY COST..... the only 'remedy' is to let REALITY sink in..and for me...to keep away!
Hmm. That is so true. My wife's affair had a high level of emotional attachment. She felt that "buzz" with OM she used to feel with me.
Good morning! It's a beautiful fall day here in CT.
Thank you for the B-day wishes. My age is no secret, I'm 49. Older, wiser, better every day.
It's been a quite night here, rather subdued, except for Luna & her holiday. I love Thanksgiving food, so comforting. Plus my sister takes care of most of the Thanksgiving meal so that makes it extra nice. I do Christams so I serve candy canes, red & green M&Ms, ribbon candy & such. My kids are usually pretty happy about that. The bonus is there's no big clean up provided they don't get sick.
You wait just one minute there BigK! Canada should give thanks for not being part of the U.S.! Humph! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> They're pretty happy about flocking down here to FLA. during winter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Gawd Luna, that's the same thing ex wants, the newsness of infatuation to last for ever. He said to me once during one of our fruitless discussion about why a third person can't be part of a marriage, I want the kind of love that I think of the person ALL day, can't wait to come home, where all we do think about is each other. I wanted to punch him in his stooopid, dreamy, far off face. IDJIOT!
Luna - It was my son's football presentation - I posted it - you've been skimming haven't you? LOL
Ooohhh...that was for THE PRESENTATION...where you have seen the last of OM?.....I don't skim.... but....I do believe it was the time I was seeing RED....not just red font like Todd.....
BigK.....when I heard your OM was telling your son that HE needed to go to another league......I J U S T LOST IT!
You see???.... it's happening again..... what a skum of a man!!!! GRRRHHH! ....I am not known to have a temper....so you can imagine.... you're OM must be hitting the 'mom tigress protective' button in me....GGGRRRRHHHH!
...anyway....the only good thing about it....inspite of the sacrifice your son will have to make... is that you and your son will no longer have to SEE him!
...I may need to borrow Todd's handcuffs to hold me BACK!
WOW Luna you were paying attention. LOL. OM's decisions have made it necessary for my son to go to another club. Even as dumb as OM is he would never have dared tell him to do that.
Hmm Luna - I might have to sponsor you on a trip downunder...
Actually it's a holiday here too. The very important Columbus day. It's one of my kids favorites because they get to spout off at school the facts about Columbus being a brute. Used to make the teachers cringe given the way Columbus is portrayed in schools. But they have been doing a better job lately of presenting a more balanced picture.
Hmm. That is so true. My wife's affair had a high level of emotional attachment. She felt that "buzz" with OM she used to feel with me.
I am glad you caught it in time to do something about it....BigK...so glad!
Quote
Gawd Luna, that's the same thing ex wants, the newsness of infatuation to last for ever. He said to me once during one of our fruitless discussion about why a third person can't be part of a marriage, I want the kind of love that I think of the person ALL day, can't wait to come home, where all we do think about is each other. I wanted to punch him in his stooopid, dreamy, far off face. IDJIOT!
I think like Nams' WS....my WS was too far deep into A... I also believe it is coupled with a mid-life crisis.....his dad died of a heart attack at 62...when WS was in his twenties... in the last few years WS's older brothers by a few years SURVIVED heart attacks..... I do wonder if A for WS is a way to not have to confront his fears... (you know...an A can keep someone's 'thoughts' quite occupied!)
...his logic was....why invest in recuperating a 20-yr M..... when he can start fresh! (What?!!? ...how fresh can it be....starts out by destroying families and bringing suffering and pain to so many people?!....I tell you... my WS is REAAALLLY out to lunch!
I am soooo glad I am in PLAN B.....and not have to deal with a WS!
Yeah, the start fresh thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
ex got a big dose of reality this past weekend when he had to make work some very demanding logistical issues with two of the boys & make a class reunion event with gf mostly without my helping out. I did have two boys stay with me Fri. night & one I brought to meet a bus at school early Sat. morning for a cross country track meet. Though it did make ex's life easier I did for my boys' comfort not his.
OK, I re-read Pio's very creative missive & I took the part where he refers to his life changing with one phone call to mean a current, or very recent phone call which indicated G was still on the WW path.
I'm sure it was my reading Pio not you wonderful writing.
Pio, I'm not sure when you changed your signature line but just saw it over on the T&L thread. Very funny. If there's any way of marketing it, I say "Go for it". TT
I decided to eat healthy Saturday night so I went to the local deli. They have a great salad bar so I decided that would be my dinner. I had never eaten sunflower seeds in my life. There they were, nestled between the boiled eggs and the honey mustard cole slaw. So, I sprinkled a liberal amount on my bed of lettuce. I learned something about sunflower seeds: I am allergic to them. I broke out in hives on my face, neck, shoulders, stomach and lower legs. It had to be the sunflower seeds because I have eaten every other ingredient many times. Are sunflower seeds a common allergen?
Do you remember the reparation in my ceiling, the plumber without crack and all that? Well, last night the fresh oil painting started to have little 'bags' like drops. I thought it was me who had applyed to much painting. Nope, it was water. I had to take off the painting and a line of 50 cms long and 2 cm longs of water started to appear. It doesn't drop too much but it will grow I'm sure.
I have been thinking about 2much's challenge to list three things that we could improve in our marriage. One of my WW's major criticisms has been what she considers my lack of spontaniety. This is her idea of being spontaneous. Let's say we have planned a family vacation at the beach. We decide in May to go down the second week in June as soon as the kidlets are out of school. My default approach is to make reservations at our usual place, get confirmation and we are ready to go when the time comes. That particular week is busy in this part of Florida because everyone is waiting for school to adjourn for the summer to head to the beach.
Now, my WW's idea of being spontaneous is to not make a reservation and drive down and "find a place". For many years, I have tried to explain that that is not being spontaneous. Spontaneous means you come home from work one day and with no plans and say, let's go to the beach. I like that kind of spontaniety. I cannot recall how many times I have tried to accommodate her "spontaniety" and simply not make reservations. We drove around one night until midnight before we found accommodations, then it was a dirty, over-priced place. Still, she maintains that it made her happy. In the interest of compromise, I agreed to do every other trip her way, with the intervening trip my way. To this day, she still likes to go down and "take her chances".
WW called yesterday so I thought of 2much's challenge and decided to ask WW what were the Big 3? She said GM, Ford and Chyrsler. JK. Here they are:
1. I have to trust her; 2. I have to understand that she is going to spend time and have fun with her friends. Please allow me to translate this from babble to reverse babble if that is the correct terminology. What she means is: I am going to go to a bar periodically with coworkers and friends and drink; 3. I cannot be checking on her every five minutes. For the record, I have never "checked" on her until I was suspicious that she was having an affair. She has always had more or less complete freedom because I trusted her. As I explained to her, it is her job to earn my trust back, not a gift that I give for no reason. She didn't like that.
But, y'all will be happy to know that yesterday I gave her the verbal version of Plan B. I told her no more contact unless there is an emergency with the boys. Honestly, her babble and fog about trust got to me. Each time we discuss the honesty issue, she ratchets off her earlier story another notch or two.
Here's a sterling example. When we first initiated contact a few weeks ago, I told her that R had to be based on honesty and that she was denying an A ever took place. She said that OM was impotent and couldn't "get it up". It is charming to hear your wife talk that way about another man BTW. I asked then, the two of you did absolutely nothing. She said that yes, he tried but couldn't "get it up". She said that he "touched" her. That is her euphemism for manual stimulation. She also said that there was no oral sex. The next time we talked she backed off the "he touched me" admission, so the only thing she admitted to is that he tried to "make love" to her but couldn't. When we talked about the trust issue yesterday, I brought up these contradictions. I told her that it was rather odd that she would not allow OM to perform oral sex on her or "touch" her but yet was willing to let him put his penis where he pleaased if only he could perform. Then she said that no, he never tried to "make love" to her, because he knew that he couldn't. This "friendship" as she describes it has continued for over four years. I have no idea if she is still seeing him or not. But whether she is or not doesn't really matter at this point. I also asked about what she described as the "new man in my life". She said that she just told me that to "hurt me". That was the log that broke the camel's back for me. She has no clue and I do not think she ever will.
Of course the things she mentions have nothing to do with the marriage but with ther WW behavior.
Exactly. Very telling isn't it? Her second best friend gave her a book a few years ago. I don't recall the title or author but it was a book about menopause since my WW had just started menopause. I thought it was a nice gesture until I picked up the book one day. There was a chapter about menopausal women going wild like they presumably did in their early years. That friend was one of two enablers who helped WW to understand that she was "entitled" to have the affair.
One of the other things we discussed yesterday was why she had the affair. Initially, she said that it was her fault and was a "mistake". I hate the word mistake to describe an affair. A mistake is when you paint the kitchen red when you meant to paint it blue. Or you buy lamb instead of beef. Those are mistakes. Anyway, a few minutes later, the affair became both our faults. Before we ended the conversation, it was all my fault. A familiar theme.
Todd, sorry if it's too personal but Do you call her, do you have problems to stop you from calling her?
She initiated the call yesterday. I have had problems maintaining NC this go around for reasons I don't understand. Yesterday cured it for me I believe.
I think there is very little info about the technical aspects of the test.
The regime is obviously despicable, even more than Sadam from my point of view.
On the other hand the Nuclear control policy seems not really working. Let's bash the French about the Mururoa test. 6 or 7 years ago, it was proved that it caused several damage and nothing was done about it.
For that matter, the US, Britain, China, Russia and others have tested nuclear weapons. The difference is that North Korea has vowed to take physical action against any country that opposes their quest for nuclear weapons.
Worse, Iran has announced as goals the elimination of Israel and the US. That puts both North Korea and Iran in a different category.
I can think of no incidence of sanctions against an aggressor country that has producd tangible results. The citizens suffer as they did in Iraq for many years. Sanctions can only work if the world is truly united in its particupation in and enforcement of sanctions. And since France is always out there willing to sell anything to anybody......
NC, North Korea, not No Contact, is living in extremely empoverish conditions in all levels. The fact that they have managed to make a test supports the idea that the population wellbeing is been sacrificed.
The other day you mentioned The Wall. I think it only shows lack of diplomatic, negotiation and administrative abilities. I think it may be a good think for MX and Latin America, almost 20 countries, more that half billion people. The message the Wall would send may be the push that would force us to have more fruitfull conections between us.
I don't think the Wall is a solution at all, there would start to be sea migration as from North Africa to Spain.
Apparently France test has been the strongest in the last years.
There is no doubt about Iraq having had WMD. Sadam used WMD against the Kurds and Iran. Unfortunately, we waited so long for "nuclear inspectors" that Sadam moved his WMD to Syria.
It is a shame that the NK people are suffering because of the worldly ambitions of their leader. They need a revolution.
The other day you mentioned The Wall. I think it only shows lack of diplomatic, negotiation and administrative abilities. I think it may be a good think for MX and Latin America, almost 20 countries, more that half billion people. The message the Wall would send may be the push that would force us to have more fruitfull conections between us.
I don't think the Wall is a solution at all, there would start to be sea migration as from North Africa to Spain.
Are you saying that I mentioned the Wall? I don't recall, that's all. Maybe I did. I assume you mean the 700 mile wall between US and Mexico?
Quote
Apparently France test has been the strongest in the last years.
Imagine the French having the strongest of anything. Ha! But still, France has not announced the destruction of any country and has not threatened its detractors. Okay, nobody would take France seriously if it did, but still...
My brother in law is a PhD Oceanologist especialized in sea water polution. He's studies are recognized for the EA in US. He was invited to give his opionion about a program to clean the waste water of Tijuana. The meeting was in San Diego, like five American agencies and offices were going to pay to give Tijuana the tecnology to clean it's water. The US agencies had already signed the compromise with Tijuana authorities. When it came the turn of my BL to give his point of view he said he found the project ok but that the reason why they were financing it was not correct.
For years SoCal thought that the waste water of Tijuana was polluting their beaches. My BL showed them the waves 'orientations' mesured by seasons and all. Yeap, all SoCal sea weaves or sea water goes 'down', no Tijuana waste water was 'going up'.
The 'teaching of this experience to me is that the causes and effects are not necesarily what they appear to be.
The 'teaching of this experience to me is that the causes and effects are not necesarily what they appear to be.
Okay. And your specific point is....?
Years ago, there was a little boy who played sandlot baseball in NYC. After the game, the little boy walked home. On the way home, he pulled his bat back, swung and hit a telephone pole as hard as he could. At that exact moment, the famous NYC electrical blackout started. The little boy was at once impressed and frightened by his power. That is folly in cause and effect land.
BTW Larousse, I have a friend here in Atlanta who is from Monterrey. He has a PhD in chemistry from Stanford. He is one of the smartest people I know. In addition to being a sceintist, he is also an inventor and has made his company a lot of money. His DD is DS2's girlfriend. DS2 just gave her a "promise" ring so things are getting serious. Of course, they have been GF/BF since their sophomore year in high school.
He found the ring in a box of CrackerJack so perhaps your BF will want to change his ring tactics, lol.
Hey, no using French words in TKO. Call them snails; it's what they are anyway... You can clearly see that BF is tall in the pic with the Awful Tower in the background.
larousse, you are a terribly naughty girl! Sweet though.
Kiwi, nice pics. Your daughter "looks American", I'll bet people look at her funny when she speaks. I hope they don't but I'll bet they do. Then they ask her if she's British.
Todd, ex's idea of spontaneity was the same as your WW. One of my birthday's he suggested an overnight trip to the northwest corner of CT. It's beautiful this time of year with all the leaves changing colors & many people are "leaf peeping". I thought, fabulous! No planning & a trip, doesn't get any better than that. Our first child, not yet two, was with us.
Turns out he hadn't made plans we drove for hours, found nothing available. We had to turn around & head back home. At 11pm we could go no further & stopped at a motel. After chasing son around the room for a while he was just settled down to sleep. The fire alarm goes off. We have to climb over a fence to get away from the motel just in case it really was on fire.
No fire just idiot partiers who were now louder than ever. At One in the morning we packed up & went home.
We have an urban legend. Two actually. Todd's story of the boy with the bat thinking he caused the huge NY power outage. Mine concerns the same power outage but a boy had thrown his shoes over a power line. They were tied together & ended up drapped over the power line with the power going out at that very moment.
Todd, I think your rash was a latent reaction to the lack of SF....Or maybe just talking about it.
My student just called to ask if we can postpone class due to the holiday. See, I told you earlier Columbus day is a major holiday here. I get to stay & play for a bit. My boys are still with their father & will be home around 9.
The B letter has an added effect that they can go back and read it.
Todd.....Larousse is right...you should give her a B letter...WS have been known to be forgetful....and please....STOP TALKING TO HER!!!
Every time you have these kind of talks... your Lovebank is going further and further in the red....
Quote
Before we ended the conversation, it was all my fault. A familiar theme.
....and this is exactly why you need to stop talking to her!
Quote
Would you consider calling the Harleys?
I am going to probably again be accused of being Larousse...but I agree with her, Todd.... Steve is a very nice chap to talk to...I think you would like him, too.....
Quote
Let's bash the French
Larousse....it's just a very silly question....but why did you pick a French word for your name? ..and yes....I know...but we saw the picture....it wasn't the only book on the shelf!
Todd, I think your rash was a latent reaction to the lack of SF....Or maybe just talking about it.
Or chewing my knuckles off. Yeah, that's it! I am allergic to knuckles. Or toes. Or elbows. I need a life.
Quote
See, I told you earlier Columbus day is a major holiday here.
I believe it is more of a major holiday in the NE because of the large Italian-American population. I've always wondered which group should celebrate. Columbus was indeed from Italy but it was Spain who financed his trip to sail off the end of the world. Do Spanish-Americans celebrate?
I chose it because it was somehow readable, could you imagine calling me Webster, Real Academia or Aurélio?
I'm sorry about your Dad, I hope he recovers soon.
I think I have never mentioned it. My Dad had a son out of marriage with and American girl. My step brother lives in Houston I think. We have never had contact with him.
Yes, we know BJ's. Their business plan appears to be to put their stores in tertiary locations not served by Costco or Sam'sClub. Not a bad approach. They are based in Natick in the People's Republic of Massachusetts I beleive. Next town over from where I lived.
I am going to probably again be accused of being Larousse...but I agree with her, Todd.... Steve is a very nice chap to talk to...I think you would like him, too.....
I just put a bisque load (the first of two firings) in my kiln. It's full of work that will need to be glazed with my wonderful new (please!, please!) glazes. Then back in the kiln for a glaze (second firing) firing. This is where things tend to go to chit.
For my B-day I did treat myself to new glazes & a box of Good n Plenty.
Larousse, I'm sorry to hear how your father treated his children. I too don't understand it.
This licorice is made by Darrell Lea and is twisted like Twizzlers but larger diameter. It is very soft and very tasty. Austrailian licorice is supposed to be the best.
The ceiling is leaking, clear visible good size drops in two points 'joined' by a 'line' of water. I noticed some water droops yesterday when I applied the last coat of gloss. I opened the area a little, like 20 cm. This morning I notice more water and I opened, took of the painting, it came of as a plastic, big pieces already separated from the ceiling. Most of the ceiling is humide and the repaired area is damped.
The bathroom upstairs underwent a major reparation, they took off the til, put new 'filling, changed plumbing... I guess the plumber missed some leaking before the floor was closed. I don't know really.
Todd, there's a candy store not too far from me that carries lots of licorice. They had an Australian one but not twisted together. It was very good but last time I was there a few months ago they wanted over $10 a pound for it. Really now doesn't that seem a bit much? So back to Good n Plenty it is.
We'll have to ask BigK how much it costs him in Australia.
When I lived in Spain I could get a great bottle of red wine for the equivalent of $3. That same bottle here was $15. Now Spanish wines are all pretty expensive. I noticed when they changed over to the euro all things Spanish went up in price.
Thank you larousse. I can tell you're a great big sweet heart, your BF is a lucky man.
Oh Todd really. As if my comment about Good n Plenty would make you blush. Let's see, you're good at math. I registered here 7/03, we had a fake recovery for one year. ex says he wants D almost a year to the day he first told me he wanted to D. He wanted "space" so no SF after our fake recovery. It's been a while...so yeah, if only I had THAT kind of Good n Plenty for my B-day.
My boys are home & in bed. Time for me too. 'night All.
Well it looks very clear that larousse is begging for the opportunity to call macho man plumber again. I bet she was drilling holes all night until she found the main.
I have been trying to work up the courage to make my first post. I never thought it would be about licorice!
Can I just ask you (ToddAC) where you found Darrel Lea licorice? From looking back at your posts you are in America. Can you tell me what store you purchased it from? I went to Australia a long time ago and loved that product. I would love to be able to buy some.
My son got the Darrell Lea licorice for me. I don't know if he found it locally or ordered it rhrough the web. I will ask next time I talk to him. It is excellent licorice. Must be a prison tradition...
The NERVE of you posting about licorice! I simply can't believe it!!!
I'm just joking obviously. We are all glad you posted. If you want to talk about licorice, that's okay. I think that would be "anise" for larousse. I'm not sure how much there is to say about licorice though. I know it comes in other colors besides black and it must be low fat because we buy it in the "diet" section.
Can I ask what your screen name means? What do you regret?
Well I don't have much news. WW did get in last night. No crises. We also have not really talked much (yet?). But, as the gunslinger's defense attorney told his client walking out of Judge Parker's court room, "no noose is good noose".
WW did tell DD2 this AM that she is never leaving again. We will see.
nams, for when you're on again. This will probably be about 4 pages back by then but never mind.
I laughed when you said DD looked American. I'm wondering whatever you expected her to look like.
And you needn't worry about her views on the USA. This is from her latest email.
"I am writing this at the Monterey Bay library which is free internet!
We went whale watching this morning and saw one humpback (far away) which was fun and there are seals and otters everywhere.
I love America - all the Halloween decorations are up everywhere! We are planning on making s'mores in our room over the open fire - which is in our room - how cool!!!!
We had 3 days in Yosemite which was BEAUTIFUL and great to be away from the rat race..."
I love America - all the Halloween decorations are up everywhere! We are planning on making s'mores in our room over the open fire - which is in our room - how cool!!!!
Sounds like Bush needs to build a wall between the USA and New Zealand. I thought US customs didn't allow kiwi's into the country anyway. What happened? I know they don't allow oranges and apples and the like.
Just wanted to let you know we also spent two weeks touring both islands of your beautiful country. I have been trying to remember the name of the town with that wonderful aroma -could you help me out?
I did read a message last night. I won't go into it here but I told Todd by email that last night was extremely difficult for me. Not sure why. When I got home from soccer I did see a message on aisle 3 and it meant a lot. Thanks much.
Regarding the mess, I like what the Blue Collar Comedy guy said when he was in the cereal aisle and his son got angry because dad wouldn't buy him the cereal he wanted. The kid dropped down on the floor and started kicking and screaming. Dad wolks over to him and says: "boy, I just have one thing to say to you: who are your parents and why aren't they here right now?" and walks off.
Beth, I like you already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Rotorua. I don't know if you could call the smell wonderful but it's certainly unusual.
My H and I are just on the phone to DD now.
Back soon.
Pio reminds of the commercial one of the Idiots sent us recently. Briefly, child in supermarket having mother of all tantrums, father looking horribly embarrassed.
Pio, there is a kind of a wall. Even though we have an ANZUS agreement, our anti nuclear stance doesn't endear us to the USA.
Of course they let kiwis into the country. They let kiwis everywhere. We have a reputation for being hard working, friendly people who'll turn their hands to anything.
I think the US doesn't allow any fruits, vegetables, meats, cheeses, drugs, Canadian medicines, etc. into the country. Kiwis?
As far as the US anti-nuclear stance. At least you aren't doing any underground detonations. NK is a small place. Wonder what that does to their groundwater.
Thank you for welcoming me, I was a little nervous of interrupting your banter. I am still in the midst of reading all the information on this site and trying to find my way around. I wasn't sure of the protocol and if I could just jump right in.
Piojitos, my posting name is due to my melancholy mood the day I joined. I have recently discovered my husband of 21 years has been having an affair. I am not quite ready to post about it yet though but thanks for drawing me out enough to even say the "A" word.
KiwiJ, you are correct about the smell! I was pregnant when there and it was the only time I suffered from morning sickness.
This thread is like Douglas Adams' Italian bistro.There is nothing to interrupt. Post all you can. It is the only way we can keep ToddAC from posting song lyrics.
french cuisine is really just about putting the most disgusting thing you can think of on a plate and charge high prices for it. I buy raw hamburger in the supermarket for a dollar or two a pound. Put it on a french plate and it costs $20.00 Where is the value added? It's raw hamburger - not steak tartar.
Escargot - that's just garden slugs on the half shell. I can give you all you want from my yard - cheap! I'll even salt em for you. No extra charge.
Nouveau Cuisine = little food on big plates.
Sulfur sounds like paper mills. Arkansas is full of them. I never thought the smell was pleasant. Eats the paint off cars too.
In my view, the word "mistake" is a euphemism to blunt the harshness of what she did. I prefer infidelity or cheating. Call a spade a spade.
Funny Todd - I prefer "Sleazy Adulterous Affair" myself. Shortly after my wife came home, she referred to her SAA as a "romantic Relationship" Haven't heard her use that term for a while now.
I don't know how to broach the subject of a "conversation". I feel like I'm in a Mexican standoff - with a real Mexican no less! There has to be "home court" advantage in that.
All day I faced the barren wait Without the taste of water. Cool, clear water. Wa-ter.
2regret,
I know that an A can be difficult to talk about. You are in a great community, meaning MB and not necessarily TKO, and you will find supportive folks here when you are ready. Talking about it truly helps.
What in the world is the point of saying "We will see"?
ToddAC,
I didn't SAY anything. That was merely my thought at the time. It was like a dramatic pause. It was an "aside", if you will. It was a bit like film noir dialogue. Gemela says she will never leave again. Suddenly the lights dim, the spotlight shines on me. I turn to the side and say to the audience "we will see". Get a grip dude.
last week my Chevy Tahoe was sucking fumes so I went to fill it up at the gas station. I had to pay $14.74 USD to fill it and I was livid. Gas prices are outrageous. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well both parent-teacher conferences went extremely well and both girls are doing very well in school. The teachers had no complaints and adore the girls.
Um Todd - I don't get it - looks fine to me. It costs me $0.82 US for 1 litre. a Gallon is 3.78l so a gallon costs 3.78*.82=$3.10
Well, my mental impairment really manifests itself in the math arena. Really stings. And my problem with reading comprehension has been well documented on these pages.
But, it seems to me that if 1 gallon= 3.785412 Liters, wouldn't you simply multiply the cost per liter - $1.12 - by 3.785412 to derive the cost per gallon?
Um Todd - I don't get it - looks fine to me. It costs me $0.82 US for 1 litre. a Gallon is 3.78l so a gallon costs 3.78*.82=$3.10
Well, my mental impairment really manifests itself in the math arena. Really stings. And my problem with reading comprehension has been well documented on these pages.
But, it seems to me that if 1 gallon= 3.785412 Liters, wouldn't you simply multiply the cost per liter - $1.12 - by 3.785412 to derive the cost per gallon?
Yes Todd - but ONLY if I was trying to give you the cost per gallon in AUSTRALIAN dollars.
I was converting it to US$'s because my experience with Americans - or at least Texans is that they can't grasp things unless they are quoted in US measures AND US dollars.
Well both parent-teacher conferences went extremely well and both girls are doing very well in school. The teachers had no complaints and adore the girls.
Thank goodness they take after their Mom. I bet you were a hooligan in grade school.
Australian dollars? Who cares about stinkin' Aus. dollars? Do you call it a dollar?
Wait, let me just check the daily commodity indices to see who is hedging their currencies against the Australian dollar....hmmm...no...don't see any......that's because nobody in their right mind would!
ToddAC,
Have you ever tried to tear an Australian bill? Can't be done. It is really tough stuff. Rumor has it that it is made from leftover Outback steaks.
I didn't SAY anything. That was merely my thought at the time. It was like a dramatic pause. It was an "aside", if you will. It was a bit like film noir dialogue. Gemela says she will never leave again. Suddenly the lights dim, the spotlight shines on me. I turn to the side and say to the audience "we will see". Get a grip dude.
Yes, I'm hip. It's like when the Tasmanian devil is buzzing around Bugs and Bugs turns to the audience and says: I wonder when he will get tired. Entirely appropriate for a cartoon; not for two spouses who just reunited. You took a positve and twisted it with a negative thought. I am suggesting that you try to develop a preemptively positive approach and attitude. That's all.
sheesh, enough already with nit picking the price of gas. No wonder y'all get lost & can't ask for directions, you can't let go the little stuff until someone says they're wrong.
To me G's comment to the girls about never leaving was manipulative, premature, & certainly not POJA with Pio. He does have something to say about this. My feeling is she should be approaching this from a much more humble position. BigK I don't think you'll agree. It's as if she walked in & said "I'm back!" & expects all to be well because she wishes it to be so. What about the changes & hard work needed for Pio to want her back? Pio's response of "well see" seems appropriate.
I can get the brand of Australian licorice (too lazy to go back & search it out) you talked about Todd. It does cost over $10 a pound though. What do you pay BigK?
Kiwi, I was joking with the looks American comment. I can imagine some of my fellow countrymen making that comment because your daughter isn't wearing some traditional garb from yesteryear.
Like it or not here's my latest thought on my ability to finally let go of wanting ex & the marriage to work. What finally sent me on the road to recovery was understanding ex was being himself & was not inhabited by some infidelity alien. He really was a liar, a cheat, he really did want a new life without me as a part time dad. He was not the man I married (thought I married) & he had no desire to be that man.
People do change for the worse & it's not because of forces outside themselves they have no control over. They are selfish & want what they want, feel entitled to it, no matter who it hurts. Some come to realize they have screwed up big time & really are sorry & ashamed & will do what it takes to regain trust & love from the BS. Others will not no matter how good the plan A.
Yes, I'm hip. It's like when the Tasmanian devil is buzzing around Bugs and Bugs turns to the audience and says: I wonder when he will get tired. Entirely appropriate for a cartoon; not for two spouses who just reunited. You took a positve and twisted it with a negative thought. I am suggesting that you try to develop a preemptively positive approach and attitude. That's all.
Not entirely accurate. Keep in mind that gemela and I have not had any discussion of groundrules. let's say hypothetically that she intends to stay here and also intends to phone OM every day. That's not going to happen. Maybe that isn't her intent. But since we have had no discussions about boundaries, I don't think it is unfair to think "we'll see". I think I need to see her offer before I accept as a given that she is staying.
No doubt. If there is any radioactive fallout from the tests, you guys are going to get it all. Gravity flows downhill and you guys are below North Korea on the globe.
To me G's comment to the girls about never leaving was manipulative, premature, & certainly not POJA with Pio. He does have something to say about this. My feeling is she should be approaching this from a much more humble position. BigK I don't think you'll agree. It's as if she walked in & said "I'm back!" & expects all to be well because she wishes it to be so. What about the changes & hard work needed for Pio to want her back? Pio's response of "well see" seems appropriate.
If my comprehension and memory are correct, Pio's WW made the comment to DD2 after DD2 cried and said she didn't want her Mom to leave again. To me, that makes WW's comment entirely different. If WW had made that comment to Pio, I would agree with you.
I can get the brand of Australian licorice (too lazy to go back & search it out) you talked about Todd. It does cost over $10 a pound though. What do you pay BigK?
Cute Nams. Good Morning BTW.
Gemela's intentions will be clear soon enough. I only saw it as a positive. Maybe I just take things at face value too easily?
Yes, I'm hip. It's like when the Tasmanian devil is buzzing around Bugs and Bugs turns to the audience and says: I wonder when he will get tired. Entirely appropriate for a cartoon; not for two spouses who just reunited. You took a positve and twisted it with a negative thought. I am suggesting that you try to develop a preemptively positive approach and attitude. That's all.
Not entirely accurate. Keep in mind that gemela and I have not had any discussion of groundrules. let's say hypothetically that she intends to stay here and also intends to phone OM every day. That's not going to happen. Maybe that isn't her intent. But since we have had no discussions about boundaries, I don't think it is unfair to think "we'll see". I think I need to see her offer before I accept as a given that she is staying.
Pio,
Didn't WW make that comment to DD2 after DD2 cried and said that she didn't want Mommy to leave again? That, to me, makes it very different. What offer do you expect to see from WW? Hey, BTW, read my emails to you again.
I learned the hard way that a spouses presence does not mean they understand the situation clearly. I also learned the hard way words are cheap.
During our year of "recovery" I was told many times things were going great, ex saw no problems, not to worry all was well & I was doing all I could. OK, but the marriage still went down the tubes.
Sorry if I'm a cynic but it's born of experience. The words need to show a real understanding of what's gone wrong & there needs to be a thoughtful plan for how to proceed.
That, to me, makes it very different. What offer do you expect to see from WW?
I can't accept it like that because everything depends on her level of self-entitlement. I have no idea what she feels is her right.
I don't expect anything at all from WW. I don't expect her to even mention the A. I expect her to try to ignore it. Is that an expectation? I think I contradicted myself. Darn!
U.S. pounds as in weight. Perhaps it would be more understandable if we ask what you pay BigK (in U.S. dollar equivilent) for a typical one serving box of licorie.
Yes, the comment about never leaving can be seen in a different light because of the circumstances under which it was said. I can understand during the emotion of the moment a mother would say that to her child. However, there is so much going on, so much at stake I would tend to VERY careful with the words I use.
Perhaps I would have said I love you so much & I've missed you so much it hurt me to be away from you. But it's understandable that in the heat of the moment the words came out the way they did. I just hope they don't come back to bite her in the [censored]. It will be something DD will remember ALWAYS. It will look like a lie if G goes.
I agree with what Nams said. I was lucky. My wife came home not wanting to be married but grudgingly willing to see if we could work things out. Her actions bore that out.
Oh yeah. shoot. don't worry about her words, look at her actions. Yeah. That's right. Silly me.
U.S. pounds as in weight. Perhaps it would be more understandable if we ask what you pay BigK (in U.S. dollar equivilent) for a typical one serving box of licorie.
NK has announced that it will launch a nuclear tipped missle at the US if we don't submit to their demands. Hmmm... wonder if the silo trap doors in North Dakota are being oiled.
Actions, level of understanding & words are all important Not all at once & not all in the order one might like to see things happen but all three are critical.
Oi (oy?), with the conversion mess!
I'm going to be finger printed today, for the second time in a year, so I can work with kids in an enrichment program. I guess the first background check wasn't good enough. Bureaucracy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Gotta work with it or you'll drive yourself crazy.
Yeah, that's what I said. The stupidest thing is I had them done last year at this location so many school districts could request them if I chose to substitute in other towns.
This location is the regional office for the school I'll be doing the enrichment program for & they don't access their own records for my finger prints? WTH I asked the woman I spoke with (well, in a nicer way of course). She gave me the only answer I couldn't argue with: It's POLICY. Oh, OK, I understand now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
BTW Todd, When you said yesterday in one of your post how charming it was to hear your WW say the OM couldn't get it up I had to laugh. ex said something equally stupid to me once. In talking about the possibility he might be involved with someone else I said we can't make our marriage work if there are three people in it. He said, I'm not saying I'm involved with someone else, but if I were, why not?
He hasn't contacted me in any way. I'm the 5th, he has ignored us totally. Wiped off. Amazing isn't it?
Yes, it is, Larousse..... I am sorry your dad is\was not there for you....
I believe children look to the adults that choose to put them on this earth to validate them....to help them acquire a sense of self-worth and of value....
Sounds your dad did not play this role in your life..... did your mom come through for you as a child?
...and how do you feel about your dad today? Do you have any desire to meet him inspite of it all, or not?
BTW Todd, When you said yesterday in one of your post how charming it was to hear your WW say the OM couldn't get it up I had to laugh. ex said something equally stupid to me once. In talking about the possibility he might be involved with someone else I said we can't make our marriage work if there are three people in it. He said, I'm not saying I'm involved with someone else, but if I were, why not?
Hi Nams,
Yes, it is sorta funny. I have layers of proof that show otherwise. But WW fails to understand that the important issue now are the lies, not the affair. And every time she tells another lie and I call her on it, she tells another lie to try to get out of the previous lie. She is lost in a maze of lies. When you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what you said. When you lie for so long, no human can keep up with all the stories.
Now I am really depressed. Hopefully, he is at least 90.
yes...at least!
I found the perfect psychologist locally. He is 115 and he and I have traded war stories about the Roaring Twenties. His wife cheated on him in 1929 so we have that in common also. In fact, I am going to move to the nursing home where he is.
BigK....where do I go to find the list of those that are online?....mind you, it doesn't necessarily mean HE'S online.... it may look like I maybe online sometimes..... but I am not!
...may have gone off to take a shower or two with so many one-track mind people around here!
Happy belated birthday Nams...hope you enjoyed your good-n-plenty's...I detest them...would have chosen sugar babies if picking candy but to each her own! Perhaps we would agree on a beverage...shall I toast your birthday tonight with a dry chardonnay, a bit of Remy Martin or cup-a-joe?
Luna...sorry to hear about your dad...if he is anything like you he will find the silver lining, stare the challenge in the face and move on with it, learning and loving. He is in my prayers
Larousse...I am equally sorry about your dad...I am sure he is too ashamed after all this time and his actions...have you ever considered contact?
Stph20...where are you girl? I'm waiting to hear how much you have accomplished in the past 48 hrs with your no SF clause in place
Todd...how can you ask what can possibly be accomplished in one session...do I detect some fear of penetrating to the land of hidden emotions and repressed angst??? You are such a tough guy and have built up some pretty impressive coping mech's...can't say I wouldn't feel the same, however considering I bet the cost is not a factor for you what is the harm of a little Harley? I would dive on the opportunity! JMHO
BK...can I borrow your invisible suit, I think I could do a little investigative work if you could loan it out???
Pio...I agree with the we will see...timing is everything...hopefully you will get the opportunity to lay out the boundaries...it would be ideal if G came to you and asked how she could make things better...but since I live in the real world and have given up on fantasy you may need to create some adult time and have your "talk"...I would give it a little time though and allow G the opportunity to initiate
Welcome 2Regret...did I get that right? If not, take no offense I'm half crazy and haven't had near enough coffee yet
Kiwi...sounds like you are living large...roast a marshmallow for me
I posted a challenge about listing top 3 M issues according to our spouses: My H's c/o even as recent as when I polled him today were 1) my negative attitude 2)onstant "scowling" 3) overbearing
Negative attitude-I do have a tendancy to be more pesimistic when it comes to personal affairs. I am the most cheerful and optimistic person in my professional work which is medical...giving constantly so that what is left over almost all goes to my kids and ooops there is not much left over for the H. I recognize that as a real problem and have been working on it for the past year and have gotten tons better in this area...unfortunately it has coincided with my WH year long spring break behavior. How about that for timing. He does have a legit point here and I have a pretty good handle on this now.
Scowling- it's true I only smile when laughing or extremely happy...my mom is the same way which makes matters worse for WH since his biggest fear is i will morph into my mother! I love my mother but do make a conscious effort to avoid morphing b/c she is extemely negative and rarely smiles. I have not made a conscious effort to smile ...it feels weird but I guess I should look into learning how to make it happen...couldn't I just be genuinely happy and it would take care of itself?
Overbearing-if you act like a kid you get treated like a kid was how I functioned up until a few months ago...H hasn't noticed much cuz he is to used to being busted but I am moving more toward the FF and LA philosophy of controlling what I can and letting everything else go...I don't ask questions anymore...don't make plans that include H and have zero expectations of him...is there such a thing as underbearing??? I believe all WS think BS are overbearing anyway. I do have a strong and assertive personality which has served me well in all aspects of my life except M...I think perhaps it is too apparent that I could do just fine without a spouse therefore they don't feel "needed"...the irony is although I could successfully function and go through life I opt to actually try and enjoy life it isn't obvious but I need lots of affection, conversation and companionship which I haven't had in years.These are major contributors to the scowling negative woman! Who is she anyway?
So, now that you woke up from your nap...have a great day!
Todd...how can you ask what can possibly be accomplished in one session...do I detect some fear of penetrating to the land of hidden emotions and repressed angst??? You are such a tough guy and have built up some pretty impressive coping mech's...can't say I wouldn't feel the same, however considering I bet the cost is not a factor for you what is the harm of a little Harley? I would dive on the opportunity! JMHO
Hi 2much,
Superman ain't scared of nothing.
Seriously, I have no fear about delving into whatever layers of subconscious he would choose. I don't like the idea of telephonic IC because I like to look into people's eyes and also accurately understand the inflection and tone better as afforded by a live meeting. Still, I will consider a session with the "elder" Dr. Harley, assuming he is old enough for me. No, money is not an issue, even after splitting with WW.
Is it really "wait"? I always thought it was the barren waste? It's what I remember singing in choir, although admittedly that was an era or two ago. How about Tumblin' Tumbleweeds? Western music was big in Hawaii back in dinosaur days.
Is it really "wait"? I always thought it was the barren waste? It's what I remember singing in choir, although admittedly that was an era or two ago. How about Tumblin' Tumbleweeds? Western music was big in Hawaii back in dinosaur days.
My, you have many identities...I forgot about Superman...are you competing with TRC??? Glad to hear you will at least consider the Harley option. How's the colored font going these days? I'm waiting until you start seeing PINK!!!! If that happens your only hope will be for Pio to share his pink secret...maybe he should have worn the pink shorts to welcome G...seeing the reaction it got here...at least it would have been a great ice breaker:)
I really need to quit procrastinating and get to my huge pile of work that is screaming to be done...so far I have cleaned, done laundry, made business calls and puttered around looking for any reason not to conquer the pile of paperwork...don't worry I am not on the companies dime...it is school work which I torture myself with pushing the envelope to the last possible minute and then can become extremely efficient and productive...if I have lots of time I just putter...I think my multitasking personality suffers challenge doing this school thing compared to the work world...did I say that out loud???
No, I don't mind talking to myself a bit, quite comfortable in fact...is that a sign...ok, so if I answer that would be pretty telling huh??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
My, you have many identities...I forgot about Superman...are you competing with TRC???
TRC is out of my league. I wouldn't stand a chance.
Quote
How's the colored font going these days?
Still seeing red periodically and episodically. Except when I read a few of Larousse's posts and then the font looks permanently red. I cannot explain it. I also see double, but that is an entirely different story.
Quote
I'm waiting until you start seeing PINK!!!! If that happens your only hope will be for Pio to share his pink secret...maybe he should have worn the pink shorts to welcome G...seeing the reaction it got here...at least it would have been a great ice breaker:)
Well, I am not convinced. The picture of Pio with the pink shorts turned my stomach. Hey, wait, it had nothing to do with the pink shorts. Still.....
I don't like the idea of telephonic IC because I like to look into people's eyes and also accurately understand the inflection and tone better as afforded by a live meeting.
You seem to be managing just fine without looking into OUR eyes and without hearing OUR voices!
It's so nice to be back, I've missed you all and I've been dying to hear how Pio has been doing. I had a lot of catching up to do, remind me not to stay away this long again!
BTW, I loved everyone's video's/pictures! Thanks for sharing!
2much....if you keep this up soon you will be asked to join Nams in the shower area.
2much...trying to restrain herself...tempted to reply...little voice inside her head..."step away from the keyboard...I repeat...step away from the keyboard"... 2much sighs "uuugggghhhh" and listens to the little voice that has consistently kept her out of potential scandals...
imagine how much trouble I could create if it weren't for the voice!!!
Oh my, this thread had dropped to the middle of the page...y'all napping?
Isn't it a bit early in the day for SF frustration stuff? Forget I said that, among us we have those who prefer morning, those who prefer night & those who feel any time is just right. Let's see if Todd blushes.
I couldn't sleep last night. I dreamed that I had not been to SF in seven months and woke up dripping wet with sweat and it was then I realized that it was not a dream nightmare but a real nightmare.
So, anyway, I fell asleep a couple of hours ago and just awoke.
I need professional help. Whether over the phone or in person, I need help. No boubt adout it.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Todd, I hope you don't mean the type of help that post comes across as meaning..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
What's for dinner tonight Todd? Ladies, I know you guys cook, what are you making?
I don't know. The last time I ate healthy I broke out in hives, so maybe I will cook a hamburger tonight. Small bag of chips and an apple. How does that sound?
Kiwi I have to change to subject. Unlike you who can have a rousing good time with SF jokes then go home to a loving H the rest of us are...well...not. We just get the rousing good time that comes to a screeching halt.
Not that tongue Todd. We need a mad, pouty sort. You remember, the kind you see on play grounds around the world.
And Kiwi, don't think we didn't notice you want to be whipped. Actually, there's some in the adult store that looks whipish but doesn't hurt. I didn't actually GO TO the store, I just heard about it.
Kiwi I have to change to subject. Unlike you who can have a rousing good time with SF jokes then go home to a loving H the rest of us are...well...not. We just get the rousing good time that comes to a screeching halt.
Wait...a..minute...THE RABBIT!
Yes Nams, but remember, it is called Jack Rabbit. There is no Jill Rabbit!
I guess I need to post the lyrics to Jackson Browne's "Rosie". It has unfortunately, become my theme song.
She was standing at the load-in When the trucks rolled up She was sniffing all around Like a half grown female pup She wasn’t hard to talk to Looked like she had nowhere to go So I gave her my pass So she could get in and see the show
Well I sat her down right next to me And I got her a beer While I mixed that sound on stage So the band could hear The more I watched her watch them play The less I could think of to say And when they walked off stage The drummer swept that girl away
But rosie you’re all right -- you wear my ring When you hold me tight -- rosie that’s my thing When you turn out the light -- I’ve got to hand it to me Looks like it’s me and you again tonight rosie
Well I guess I might have known from the start She’d come for a star Might have told my imagination not to run too far Of all the times that I’ve been burned By now you’d think I’d have learned That it’s who you look like Not who you are
But rosie you’re all right -- you wear my ring When you hold me tight -- rosie that’s my thing When you turn out the light -- I’ve got to hand it to me Looks like it’s me and you again tonight rosie
Still boring Todd. I could go for some Indian food. I won't have it but I could go for it. Instead, since I don't have to cook because my boys will be with ex I'll have a pear, nuts & maybe a slice of some nice Irish cheese.
Still boring Todd. I could go for some Indian food. I won't have it but I could go for it. Instead, since I don't have to cook because my boys will be with ex I'll have a pear, nuts & maybe a slice of some nice Irish cheese.
It is boring. I thought about going to the deli and having the salad bar again but the memory of sunflower seeds lingers.
How about Chinese Todd? You can eat healthy Chinese. Hot & Sour soup, sauteed vegs, without the greasy sauce, & dumplings. Yum. OK, let's have Chinese instead of Indian. Is that spontaneous?
Todd...breaded chicken and mashed potatoes at my house but at 3:30 in afternoon since kid schedule extremely tight on Tuesdays with CCD and soccer games.
You know they make shoelace type licorice but it's not very good...I always favored the chocolate licorice and would bite off the top and bottom and make a straw out of it to drink my milk when I was a kid...haven't had it in years.
Did you used to eat those paper saucers filled with candy beads from the penny candy store when you were a kid? I loved those and the wax lips...they are all pretty gross looking back as an adult but back in the day I loved them! Also Mary Janes and Sugar Daddy's...
How about Chinese Todd? You can eat healthy Chinese. Hot & Sour soup, sauteed vegs, without the greasy sauce, & dumplings. Yum. OK, let's have Chinese instead of Indian. Is that spontaneous?
It is spontaneous. I may do Chinese tomorrow. Typically chicken with garlic sauce. Is that healthy?
Todd...breaded chicken and mashed potatoes at my house but at 3:30 in afternoon since kid schedule extremely tight on Tuesdays with CCD and soccer games.
Hi 2much,
Know what is so funny? I was just thinking if I could have any dinner I wanted, it would be fried chicken, mashed potatoes and green beans, sweet tea and cornbread.
Do you have a Cracker Barrel where you live? The best fried chicken.
Yep, Cracker Barrel is 5 min up the road...it does have excellent country style dishes but is usually sooooooo cold in the dining area that you grow icles so I avoid it...not to mention the wait time is long. I'm not a big fan of eating out, especially with the kids since you never know when they are going to eat well. My children are pretty healthy eaters so when we do eat out it is generally somewhere with good salads since they prefer salad to burgers. My oldest DD1 wants to be a chef and watches every cooking show on cable. Her favorite of course was ******'s Kitchen!
I have to run...i am watching a neighbor child in addition to juggling soccer player so it's pick up /drop off time:)
I'm sure you will find something delectable...I happen to love chicken salad with apples and walnuts
Nams....last week I was watching Oprah....a show about 'aging gracefully'.....blablabla.....and having and not having SF .... Dianah Carroll whose 71 suggested that it was like 'bicycle riding'.... you never forget how even if you don't ride for awhile..... and the doctor actually suggested that it would be a good idea, more or less, to keep the 'muscles' toned and that....if there's no one there to help you.....help yourself! ...it cracked me up! ...I guess the doctor hadn'd heard about the RABBIT!
Todd...I thought you had lost your right to play with fire...
...I may regret asking.....but.....exactly with WHAT are you planning to cook your hamburger?
I used my notebook. Simnply turned it over and placed the hamburger right over the "hot" area. Done is seven minutes. Of course, I now have grease on my computer, but the burger surely was good.
Nams: Isn't it a bit early in the day for SF frustration stuff? Forget I said that, among us we have those who prefer morning, those who prefer night & those who feel any time is just right. Let's see if Todd blushes.
Quote
Todd: And those who think all times are right.
Quote
Luna:Todd...I guess there can't be many body parts left by now!
Nams: Isn't it a bit early in the day for SF frustration stuff? Forget I said that, among us we have those who prefer morning, those who prefer night & those who feel any time is just right. Let's see if Todd blushes.
Quote
Todd: And those who think all times are right.
Quote
Luna:Todd...I guess there can't be many body parts left by now!
Whew! I was afraid I'd been belting out the wrong word all these years and nobody bothered to correct me because they were all busy trying not to listen.
Se4e at the top - a mustard coloured strip - says Welcome - YourName and [Logout] Next to that you see My Home etc. Under My Home there's a 'Who's online" thingy
Just wanted to thank you for the link to the licorice. Everyone on this forum seems very helpful and pleasant.
Do you mind if I just pose a question ?
Bigkahuna I am really struggling with being able to forgive my H. He says he is sorry and is trying to do everything I ask to reassure me that he will never stray again. It was the last thing I ever expected in our marriage. I feel so betrayed.
You sound like you have a wonderful marriage again and seem to have happily survived the A. Can you and everyone else on this forum tell me how you managed to forgive such a betrayal of trust. Specially after so many years of fidelity. I am just not sure I can do it, it's not just the physical aspect but the emotional ties they had.
I have to leave for the evening but will check back in tomorrow to see if any of you have replied. Hope you don't mind me throwing this question into the mix.
Well even though Infidelity is off topic for this thread..... (joking)
Beth - I think for me, I have seen true repentance in my wife for her affair - it was short term not long term but there was I guess a 12 month build up period before they took it up to the next level and acted on it.
It really was 6 months into recovery before I really knew my wife "got it" regarding the betrayal. I do think when the WS gets it, that they have a harder time than the BS had.
Being in love again with your spouse also helps. It's a combination I guess.
Forgiveness is often offered prematurely. To totally forgive takes time and it is easier when you know your spouse is being totally honest with you about the affair.
You are possibly confusing forgiveness with resentment? It takes the passage of time and consistency from your FWS for this to fade as well.
The infidelity FAQ's linked below for my wife and I described the whole process perfectly. It was like looking in a mirror.
Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any questions you want. More than happy to answer as best I can.
2regret, I'm not ignoring you but there are people here that are better qualified to help you than I am. My m ended in D after a year of fake "recovery". ex never admitted to an affair but I think he cheated, no hard proof, just strong circumstantial evidence.
The only thing I can say is if the two of you really want the marriage to work AND are willing to be honest & work together your chances are very good. As to how you get over betrayal...I don't know but with the love & honesty of your H I imagine it comes in time.
Oh, wait. Todd, what should you look for in the adult store? Anything of interest you can bring home & enjoy. Just make sure the next time you have a cooking snafu & the kind fire fighters come to your rescue this something you've gotten from the store won't embarass you...or you could keep it out of sight.
After all, I don't imagine people with rabbits leave them lying around in plain sight.
Oh, wait. Todd, what should you look for in the adult store? Anything of interest you can bring home & enjoy. Just make sure the next time you have a cooking snafu & the kind fire fighters come to your rescue this something you've gotten from the store won't embarass you...or you could keep it out of sight.
And here I am, just an innocent bystanding princess.
Hmmm, a rabbit must be some kind of BOB.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />And, all I can think of that rhymes with flashlight would be dashlight, nightlight, midnight, goodnight, high flight, stuff like that.
I have heard that one would not be polite if, after a meal, one were to say, "No dessert, thanks. I'm stuffed." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
NK has announced that it will launch a nuclear tipped missle at the US if we don't submit to their demands. Hmmm... wonder if the silo trap doors in North Dakota are being oiled.
I doubt that will happen. I am betting the "Yellow Peril" incident is still fresh in their minds - and NK is such a small country too.
I've just seen it before on Idiotville when someone "out there" decides that the thread is too risque or people are having too much fun and they report it.
Considering some of the subject matter that's been on here, they sure picked a weird one to report.
Someone must have reported her. Too much time on their hands.
You are assuming other people actually see this thread. Bad assumption.
My guess is that the mods get automated email alerts if certain keywords are entered. I don't want to upset Justuss though. She scares the bejeezus out of me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I doubt it Pio. You look at some stuff you say with impunity that is FAR worse than well.... he11 for instance. I don't get it at all. I agree with Jen's explanation
I don't want to upset Justuss though. She scares the bejeezus out of me
Justuss is a she? I thought he was a he? Anyway, several years ago, I wrote a science fiction story about a civilization in the future which had eliminated pain and of course, pleasure and was living a Philistine-like existence. The protagonist was named Justus which was "just us" and "justice" wrapped into one. I sent it to Isaac Asimov to be published in his SF magazine and he said, uh...no. He, or his editor did make some personalized comments about liking the story and gave me some pointers. I made paper airplances out of it and had a lot of fun.
DD2 lost her first tooth yesterday. It was quite an event. She lost it in the shower so we had a brief moment of panic but all worked out. The "ratoncito" left her 30 rials in the shoe under her bed when he took her tooth. She saw that this morning and started doing mental math on how much a new Bratz would cost. I caught her with a pair of my pliers trying to remove more teeth. Fortunately I stopped her in time. Smart girl though. Gotta give her credit.
I did have one disappointment in DD1's meeting with the teacher. After it was over, I invited WW to go look at DD1's mealworm (science project) so she could talk to DD1 about it. The teacher was explaining mealworms to WW. There is another child (Nicole) in DD1's class that was in her class last year and, according to that child's mom, she is the most advanced child in the class. Anyway, teacher was showing DD1's mealworm to WW and was trying to explain that the mealworm would turn into a beetle and said that Nicole's mealworm had already changed and she demonstrated Nicole's beetle to WW.
It's true. Even Nicole's mealworm is more advanced than my poor Valeria's. I was devastated. This has to give her some serious self-esteem issues. Why is my DD1's mealworm such a loser? Can I give it steroids?
Stef - We need a progress report here. You're killing us.
Sorry, I didn't mean to keep you in suspense... a lot has happened since I've been here... I went out of town Saturday and came home Sunday. I called WH Sunday afternoon/evening to ask if he was still coming over to bring me money. He said he forgot about it and will bring it over on his way to the races later. Fine. He calls me on his way to the races and said that he didn't have his new PIN # yet, if he got it in the mail, call him with it and he'd bring the money to me after the races were over. He said he wouldn't be too late, he wasn't going to stay for the whole thing, but I asked him to call me when he was on his way. He made some joke about me having somebody leave before he got here. I told him, No, I have morals and I'm still married. (was that bad?). Anyway, then he propositioned me about him possibly moving back in strictly for financial reasons. He said he was tired of me calling him every week asking about money, even though it's his fault that I have to call him. He said he would just bring his clothes back and as soon as things were settled, he was out of here. I told him I would think about it. So he came over at 11:30 Sunday night. He handed me the money right away and I expected him to leave, since he had to work the next morning. He sat on the couch by me and teased me about the movie I was watching. I told him about my weeked and we started heavily flirting and one thing led to another and...please don't yell at me. I feel soooo horrible about it, I don't think I could take any 2x4's about this. It was so late that he ended up spending the night again.
He called me Monday after work (not sure why). He was on his way to a friend's house to help him and we talked for a while. I told him that I thought about what he said and he's probably right, the easiest thing for him to do right now would be to move back in, so if he wanted to, I was agreeable to it. Then he back-tracked and wasn't so sure. He said it would make things "awkward and confusing" if he were to move back in, but he didn't know what else to do about our situation. So I asked him, does this mean you're not moving back in, then? He said not right away. But the way he talked made it seem like he thought it was my idea for him to come back! I don't want him to come back yet! I haven't talked to him since. And I'm really confused again. I want to talk to him sooooo bad. I just want to know why he's so afraid to feel his feelings for me. Why he won't admit that he still loves me. Ugh!!!
Well on the plus side Stef, if he moves back in, you can do a much better Plan A. But we might have to get you fitted for a chastity belt.
You did LB him too BTW.
Keep clear of the relationship talk. Just do the Plan A stuff. Attract him back. You fell off the horse, it's OK. Get back on. But don't let him use you Stef. You deserve better than that.
In Arkansas, they look, act and talk funny. And a family tree is a straight line.
[color:"red"] Aaaahhh, this explains why Pio's sister gets jelous of G. [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Kansas has better music, I think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Mealworm's complot! Oh the rat race starts earlier and earlier. did the little hamster became Hamster Atlas? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Thing is you wouldn't necessarilt throw WS out of house now so you probably should let him back. But you seem to be incapable of keeping your panties on. Hmm. I dunno. You have been doing a great Plan A Stef. It may be better to not let him back in.
Well on the plus side Stef, if he moves back in, you can do a much better Plan A. But we might have to get you fitted for a chastity belt.
You did LB him too BTW.
Keep clear of the relationship talk. Just do the Plan A stuff. Attract him back. You fell off the horse, it's OK. Get back on. But don't let him use you Stef. You deserve better than that.
OK, I'm listening. How did I LB him? And how do I not anymore?
Thank you so much for not yelling at me. You were the first person I thought of when I realized what I'd done. Like having to face my mother when I was a kid and did something bad!
I haven't talked to him about the relationship, and I don't plan on it yet, I just really, really, really want to. I'm also hoping a chastity belt is not necessary. The one thing I did think of when he said he was considering moving back was that I could do an even better Plan A. That's also why I was disappointed when he said he wasn't going to right away.
I'm not trying to let him use me, but I have illogical thinking regarding SF.
Thing is you wouldn't necessarilt throw WS out of house now so you probably should let him back. But you seem to be incapable of keeping your panties on. Hmm. I dunno. You have been doing a great Plan A Stef. It may be better to not let him back in.
Trust me, I have thought about this from every angle.
And do ya have to make me feel any worse than I already do? Really? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I apologise Stef. I honestly don't want you to feel any worse and I don't want you to think I am beating you up. None of us here did everything right and I honestly don't expect you to either. I am not disappointed in you one bit. I understand totally why this happened and where you are at. Disrespect was not my intent.
SF is just a tactical error at this point.
I could have been nicer in how I got my point accross. I'm sorry.
I would say while totally true that is a disrespectful judgement. But a little one.....
It's not a judgement if it's true! And it's absolutely true. I'll have to read more about DJ's so I can avoid them. I said it without thinking. I knew it was a mistake when I said it.
His whole attitude about this whole thing just burns my a**! Last night was the first night that I actually got a little mad about all of this. I wanted to go into a room and throw something. I didn't, because then I'd have a mess to clean up. But I wanted to.
I want to talk to him sooooo bad. I just want to know why he's so afraid to feel his feelings for me. Why he won't admit that he still loves me. Ugh!!!
Stph,
affair aside in your case, it seems you had angry outburst, mood swings and disrespect judegemental episodes. One characteristic of people who has no control over their angry outburst is that they can't understand the impact it has in the other person. Read again about Love Busters. One thing you shouldn't do is tell him that you have changed and you won't be the old Stph. He has to see it for himself over a extended period of time. Please don't minimize the impact your uncontrolled behavior had over your WS in the past. Of course I'm not justifying his affair but only when you understand how your negative, angry behavior affects him and recognize it, you could understand deeply why you can't allow yourself to behave tha way anymore.
I think our crazy conversations have send Believer away.
I know it's true but it's trying to educate your spouse - a DJ. A totally understandable one. But tell me do you think that deposited or withdrew Love Units from your account in his love bank?
Thank you for the hug, but don't feel bad. I honestly expected to be yelled at a lot more than I have been. You've given me great advice and I'm sorry I wasn't strong enough to follow it. I'm going to try harder. I want to do this right. I love the advice and support you give me and I was kidding when I rolled my eyes. I wasn't upset with you at all. I was, however, very afraid of what your reaction was going to be, but I wanted to be honest and not hide it. I'm not upset with you at all. (((((BigK)))))
And he just might NEED to see a little anger - just not directed at him. If he thinks you're passive and just being forgiving and going along with it he can eat cake. He sees that and thinks you don't care that he is with another woman. He's quite happy to have 2 women giving him SF I assure you.
Todd....this is the second time you can't name 'a spade a spade'....
...how bad could the name be? ...and it doesn't sound like Cinderella's 'guessed' it right, either!
...so...I am just going to ask: what is it called?
(....now...I KNOW....will regret asking)
Oh Larousse,
Now, I am embarassed! When my Dad had the "talk" with me, he told me to never say the word "pregnant" in front of a woman. Now, I sorta know what he meant but as tough as he was, he just couldn't say it: don't get a girl pregnant. That is what he meant. Do you know that I couldn't say the word pregnant in front of a woman until I was 28. True story.
So, anyway, this comes hard for me, but the name of the man device is a "fleshlight". It looks interesting.
And he just might NEED to see a little anger - just not directed at him. If he thinks you're passive and just being forgiving and going along with it he can eat cake. He sees that and thinks you don't care that he is with another woman. He's quite happy to have 2 women giving him SF I assure you.
I'm quite sure the right answer to your earlier post is I withdrew from the Love Bank. But I've been depositing a lot too, so maybe I only withdrew a little bit?
How do I show him my anger at this without directing it towards him and not talking about the relationship? I'd like to throw something at him .
Well Stef - that is the best policy. Lying to us here and not being totally up front and honest won't help you one bit. And when you screw up we won't really yell at you anyway. Sheesh. At the end of the day, you have to make your own decisions and take responsibility for them. We can only advise you but we are not in your situation. You are right to sift and weigh what you are being told to do.
I totally understand the pressures you were under with your husband.
Just totally BTW, does the OW know your husband likes to still have SF with you?
Causing trouble in the affair will cause them to LB each other to death.
Steph, I'm not angry with you either. I'm just very concerned that this will hurt you very badly in the long run. I mean hurt you as a person. You are probably reading intimacy and desire and love for you into the SF. As BigK says, he is very happy with 2 women giving him SF and as long as he knows you are a pushover he will continue to keep coming around.
It is out of concern for YOU that we are giving you this advice. We are trying to tell you the best way to make your WS into a loving H again and we are trying to stop you being hurt more than you have been already.
How do I show him my anger at this without directing it towards him and not talking about the relationship? I'd like to throw something at him .
Actually anger was not exactly the word I was looking for. He needs to see you are emotionally affected by his actions and how hurt you are by him. Angry outbursts are the worst king of LB after all.
This anger thing is a phase - there are stages of grief etc. This is just a new phase for you. I think Pio can explain this better or else I can go and find a post for you to look at...
There is one great thing about Kansas. On a clear day you can see forever.
Rumor has it that everything is up-to-date there too - at least in Kansas City. Of course, I don't know for certain if they might be talking about the Missouri side. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Steph, I'm not angry with you either. I'm just very concerned that this will hurt you very badly in the long run. I mean hurt you as a person. You are probably reading intimacy and desire and love for you into the SF. As BigK says, he is very happy with 2 women giving him SF and as long as he knows you are a pushover he will continue to keep coming around.
It is out of concern for YOU that we are giving you this advice. We are trying to tell you the best way to make your WS into a loving H again and we are trying to stop you being hurt more than you have been already.
I know what you're saying and I understand it. It may sound stupid, but I didn't mean for SF to happen. But like I said, I've had illogical thinking when it comes to that. In a way, I'm trying to make him rethink his decision to divorce me, and he's admitted that when we do have SF, he does rethink his decision. So in some fashion, I'm using Plan A and SF in hopes of it working sooner...
Just totally BTW, does the OW know your husband likes to still have SF with you?
Causing trouble in the affair will cause them to LB each other to death.
Now this brings me to another question. I've been getting advice recently on my thread regarding calling the OW's BF to find out if she's moved out yet, and to put a bug in his ear that WH is coming over a lot because it will most definitely get back to OW. Is this a good idea?
Actually anger was not exactly the word I was looking for. He needs to see you are emotionally affected by his actions and how hurt you are by him. Angry outbursts are the worst king of LB after all.
This anger thing is a phase - there are stages of grief etc. This is just a new phase for you. I think Pio can explain this better or else I can go and find a post for you to look at...
So...I can't throw something at him? I'm still not totally angry, but last night was the start of it, but I had to think about everything and make myself get mad about it.
It's a very fine line between showing him I'm hurt and LBing him. Help me with that.
Pio and I talked about it not too long ago. Not the 5 stages, but about the anger. Orchid also posted the 5 stages of grief on my thread a while ago as well.
Stef - Yes - OW'sBF can and should be your ally in busting up the affair. He might even hammer your H for messing with his GF. You never know.
You want to destroy the illusion of the affair. Smash the fantasy. Make it not quite as much fun. Too much trouble to continue.
Anything you can do to bring a dose of reality works for you. He'll be mad at first. Your marriage can survive his anger - it will not survive an affair.
Just so you know, I already exposed to the BF. I just didn't know if I should call him again, but if you think it's a good idea, then I'll do it.
WH wasn't mad when I exposed to him, much to my surprise. He was more shocked that I knew how to get a hold of him and actually called, more than anything.
It's a very fine line between showing him I'm hurt and LBing him. Help me with that.
The main thing is to not hurl abuse an accusations at him - but you CAN tell him how you are feeling and how his actions make you feel and how his actions hurt you. Not about HIM as a person but about his ACTIONS and how they make you FEEL.
Have you read His Needs, Her Needs yet? or Love Busters? Do you have any of the Harley books?
Might be a good time even to review the Basic Concepts here.
Remember to do the plan A things - check the link in my sig below again - Pep explains it very well.
OK everyone, listen up. Don't feel bad for any yelling at me that you have done previously! I deserved it and I deserve it now, I know, I just feel bad enough and don't need to hear what I did wrong, because I already know and you can't make me feel any worse than I already do! It's all OK, I fell off the wagon, but I'm back on, bruised and all. So don't feel bad!!! I appreciate everyone's support when I actually do something right and when I mess it all up.
Jen is right too Stef. The no SF rule is to protect YOU physically from STD's and emotionally. You do realise I hope that most people in affairs do not use protection so there is a risk of you contracting STD's. There is a new thread on the recovery board detailing exactly that.
We are NOT the MB killjoy police - we have your best interests at heart. We aren't making this stuff up.
Yes that is a DJ. What you can say is "as long as you are my husband, I will not see anyone else."
Tada - Pio is exactly right.
That sounds perfect. My problem is, I tend to be a smart-a** and it just comes out before I can stop it. I don't really mean anything by it, but that does sound a lot better than what I said. I'll work on it.
[/quote]The main thing is to not hurl abuse an accusations at him - but you CAN tell him how you are feeling and how his actions make you feel and how his actions hurt you. Not about HIM as a person but about his ACTIONS and how they make you FEEL. [/quote]
I'm not doubting you, I just want to be clear...If I tell him all of that right now, won't he NOT care and NOT listen? Won't his fog get in the way? Isn't he still at the infatuation stage where he just wants to be with her no matter who he hurts? And I don't know if I can tell him that without giving him an ultimatum...which I DO NOT want to do and don't intend on doing.
I'm not doubting you, I just want to be clear...If I tell him all of that right now, won't he NOT care and NOT listen? Won't his fog get in the way? Isn't he still at the infatuation stage where he just wants to be with her no matter who he hurts? And I don't know if I can tell him that without giving him an ultimatum...which I DO NOT want to do and don't intend on doing.
Well you are banned from relationship talk anyway. You don't want to appear needy or clingy. But if he says something to you, you can respond. Just make your response more like what Pio posted than what you said.
BigK, I also wanted to ask you about the wedding ring issue from another post you advised in.
What are your thoughts on wearing them at this stage? I took mine off after he took his off. He noticed that I did, but didn't act like it bothered him. I put them back on at the advice of a friend, but he didn't notice. So I took them off again a week later after I agreed to divorce. Should I leave them off until he decides to come home? Or am I jumping ahead of myself?
Well you are banned from relationship talk anyway. You don't want to appear needy or clingy. But if he says something to you, you can respond. Just make your response more like what Pio posted than what you said.
Well, I've done that right...I haven't done any relationship talk with him. I did tell him that at some point we need to talk about us, and he said OK, but I'm not going to mention it again, and I know he won't. That's as close as I've come.
I can still do this, right? I still have a chance?
I would definitely wear them. As you say, YOU are married. The message this sends him is subtle but powerful.
Tell you what Stef - I will be speaking with Bob Pure later. I'll see if he can check in here on you. He started wearing his ring after removing it and it sent his WW a powerful message.
My wife removed her rings when she left me and wouldn't wear them after she came back for a while. I never took mine off.
It's all the message you want to send your husband.
I am married. I am not divorcing. I consider myself to be married.
Don't send mixed messages - your words say one thing and your actions say another....
I can still do this, right? I still have a chance?
You have NOT ruined everything if that is what you are asking. LOL.
Stef - thing is, if you can end the affair, there is a high probability he will come home to you. Especially if you have done a good Plan A.
I think you have a good chance of recovering your marriage. Even if that does not happen, you will make someone a great wife in the future. The self improvement you are doing will make you a very desirable marriage partner.
Hi all, Keeping up with this post is a full time job, but quite educating.
I cannot sleep tonight, I thought I could get some advice here. After I found out that WH is still in contact with OW, I've been going really down, really fast. I guess I was LB and DJ. After Pio's advice, I am trying to get a hold of myself. Tough. On Monday morning, I told him to only do second NC if he really means it. Not because I am pressuring him, since if he does it bc of pressure, he does not follow it. He told me a couple of times that he loves me, wants M to work. I am waiting to go to MC today to talk about relationship. I am going back to early feelings that I just want out of the M. I was getting happy again, but now it is so hard to be with him and always wonder how much he really tells me. I don't think he's seeing her, or PA, but talking, even if "business" is also an A. What are my "arms" for this fight? Other than threaten a D or separation, I don't know how to make him take me seriously. I am so tired of him.
Pio, how is it going?
Stph, I took my wedding band off on DD. WH did not say anything at the time, but later said it upset him. I put it back when he returned to the house. And decided to keep it until D, hopefully not D, but only then.
Arrived home a little earlier than I thought. Thanks for replying to my post. I see most people stayed clear of it though. I hope I didn't upset anyone, I would never want to do that. I am really struggling with my disgust, distrust etc.
I really appreciate you helping me Bigkahuna. I read the links you mentioned and also printed them so I can take my time reading them tomorrow. I have so much printed material to read from this site I need to buy a new cartridge.
Steph20 I am much older than you but I am also reading and learning from all the advice being given to you. I hope it all works out well for you. I think we have been lucky to find this group of posters.
I had no idea posts were edited. I certainly read nothing to cause distress today. In fact I enjoyed the humor.
I replied on your venting thread. Keep that stuff up and you will start to piss me off. It is okay to vent. Good that you did it here. No go back and get to work! [You're doing great BTW - much better than I ever did] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posts are only edited if they are offensive or the poster asks that it be done, etc. Nams post was pretty tame compared to what has gone on since. Justuss will have a busy day ahead of her tomorrow. I don't envy the mods - especially since this thread started. They edit very little. One thing I am still very upset with Justuss about though is a post directed at me that she edited. In that post, I was called
a) a miserable excuse for a human being
and
b) a horse's a$$
Now she edited out the miserable human being part but left the horse's a$$. What was the basis for that selective edit? It has never been explained. Maybe just Justuss tacitly expressing her OWN opinion?
Personally I would rather be a miserable excuse for a human being than a horse's a$$. JMO.
Nobody is avoiding your posts but you do seem a little sensitive. I think we want you to feel more at home before we start walloping you like we do stph20. Don't worry, you'll get your chance <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Meantime post about licorice but just don't post about creative things you can do with licorice or the mods will be on you too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Now she edited out the miserable human being part but left the horse's a$$. What was the basis for that selective edit? It has never been explained. Maybe just Justuss tacitly expressing her OWN opinion?
Personally I would rather be a miserable excuse for a human being than a horse's a$$. JMO.
You know Pio, this genuinely hurts me. I asked in good faith if you wanted my input and you took it upon yourself to "read" my mind and conjure the anwswer. I am very disappointed.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Oh my! I just started to catch up & find out I've been edited! Will it become apparent to my why if I read on? Maybe someone can enlighten me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
OK, it was the bit about Kiwi. Could have sworn I'd read that kind of stuff here before. My appologies to those I may have offended. It's good to have boundries.
This all Todd's fault, well Kiwi's too. Her gloating & all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Luna, if you'll recall I had mentioned muscle atophy when we first started to discuss adult accoutrements. To be safe & remain a one time edited poster that's all I'll say.
I wrote this about why your WS may not be showing his feelings to you:
Stph,
affair aside in your case, it seems you had angry outburst, mood swings and disrespect judegemental episodes. One characteristic of people who has no control over their angry outburst is that they can't understand the impact it has in the other person. Read again about Love Busters. One thing you shouldn't do is tell him that you have changed and you won't be the old Stph. He has to see it for himself over a extended period of time. Please don't minimize the impact your uncontrolled behavior had over your WS in the past. Of course I'm not justifying his affair but only when you understand how your negative, angry behavior affects him and recognize it, you could understand deeply why you can't allow yourself to behave tha way anymore.
I'm so sorry, I meant to reply to your post last night and I forgot to.
I admit I did DJ, but in all honesty, we were kidding when we talked about it, even though that doesn't make it right, there was no anger or mood swings directed towards WH. I haven't been angry towards him since he told me about the A. The only time I've actually been mad, I had to force myself to be mad and he wasn't around. He's not seen me anything other than hurt, and that was when the A first came out.
In the beginning, I was telling him that I was going to change and how I had changed, but I've stopped doing that. He's not listening anyway and I believe he's starting to see it.
We have actually had a lot of discussions that, in the past, may have led to arguments, but they haven't because I have controlled myself and stopped the conversation when I felt I wouldn't be able to handle it.
Since he's been gone, it's given me a lot of time to think clearly about our M and I realize my faults and what led him to cheat. Not that it's all my fault, of course I'm not blaming myself and I never have, he made the decision, but I understand what I did to make him unhappy and how we weren't meeting each other's EN's. And I honestly don't want to be the person I was before. I wasn't happy either and I'm recognizing that now.
I think the only anger problem I have is that I'm not...lol.
I have done a lot of thinking since WH has been gone and a lot of learning about myself. So, in a crazy way, I'm almost glad this happened (not the A, but him moving out) so that I could become a better person. I just didn't know how or that I needed to!
Stef, I understand what you are saying. Although I also do not blame myself for his A, I could really see that my idear of M was two people leading their own lives.
I think I was the opposite. I thought that M was doing everything together. I think I smothered him and became to needy and clingy. I have since learned how to become my own person, be independant and do the things that I want to do.
My life is about me now, not about us and that is hard to get used to, but I'm still learning.
This all Todd's fault, well Kiwi's too. Her gloating & all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hi Nams,
You didn't offend anyone. Well, maybe the person who reported you. But I take full blame for pushing the thread.
I didn't make any children cry today so I guess that's a good thing.
Todd we all did our part. We were having fun. I'm inclined to believe someone got their panties in a wad & reported the offensive words. That's fine. My choice would be to not read here if I found something offensive. After all I'm not the word police. We do have free choice after all.
Isn't that what a good libertarian would say?
Why isn't a libertarian a bedwetter? A questionnot a joke.
I see most people stayed clear of it though. I hope I didn't upset anyone, I would never want to do that.
2regret,
...just thought we should clear something up....at least in my case...if I had nothing to 'offer' in terms of advice...it is not due to lack of 'desire' to want to help...but rather lack of knowledge....
...without being too presumptious, I think this applies to a few of us here.... but...keep asking....
...I don't know if you already have your own thread, if not, start one with a very catchy name to sollicit advice from the 'larger' somewhat more KNOWLEDEABLE pool of MB members!
This is really getting strange. Several eyewitnesses reported that it was a twin engine plane which was doing acrobatics, leveled off and crashed into the building. The building is a 39 story multiple use building but the upper floors are apartments. FDNY reports that a number of people are trapped on floors above the impact point. The FAA has placed flight restrictions in the area and the FBI terrorism task force is on the scene. Still, it is unknown whether this was an accident or something more nefarious.
NORAD just reported that fighter jets have been scrambled and are flying watch over every major US city. I am sure this is a precaution but wow, this is getting a little crazy. You would not want to be a civilian pilot or a passenger who veers off course. You would likely be shot out of the sky.
Not much in the way of news yet about the crash. Wait & see.
Hi larousse, maybe because I only worked a half day. Tomorrow I'll have another chance.
Actually the boy I did make cry last week surprised me by crying. He's a 4th grader so not really young & a smart kid who tried hard. He did talk a lot & was disruptive which is why he didn't get a ticket for good behavior. His teacher gives out tickets for good behavior which the kids redeem for goodies. So at the end of the day I'm giving out tickets, talk to this kid about working hard but being disruptive, he's fine. next thing I know other kids are telling me he's crying. Real tears too. Oh well, still no ticket. Me thinks he uses tears often to get what he wants.
Thanks for replying and I understand your reasons for not giving me any advice. That being said I will take your advice and start a thread of my own. Trouble is I have tried several times to do just that and end up an emotional mess and hit the delete button. I will certainly perservere though. I am sure my story is one you have all sadly heard before.
I did manage to do a post last night on another thread. I guess that is a start.
My story is somewhat different in that I was on the "other side" of the equation and also never feel very comfortable giving advice. Sort of "what would I know...."
I'm more comfortable calling Pio and Todd names or gloating and getting edited for it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The latest word is that the plane is registered to Yankee pitcher Corey Lidle and he was believed to be the pilot and only person on board. Unless there is some information not yet reported, it appears this was an accident. Four are now confirmed dead.
Thanks for your reply, one thing I have managed to learn is that an A is painful for all concerned. It was a hard lesson but it did finally manage to penetrate my thick skull.
I guess you are enjoying the start of Spring. It must be lovely and green over there. That was one thing that amazed me about your country was how green it was. We are still dusty and brown here in southern CA after our long summer, but the fall rains will soon start and the green will peek through.
Todd, why are liberals bedwetters yet libertarians are not?
Keep in mind I probably fall under the catagory of non-political so this is really for my amusement.
I wrote a thoughtful response to your earlier question concerning this, but just as I sent the post, my firewall blocked some incoming traffic and apparently killed my post in the process.
Bedwetting can be thought of an a reactionary behavior. Of course, not true bedwetting but a metaphor for such. Since Liberals think with their hearts (emotions?), they are reactionary, hence "bedwetters".
Conservatives are usually thought of as being cold since they "don't want to help people". True conservatives simply don't want the government to take money from citizens by force and give it to other, non-deserving citizens. A thinking conservative believes and supports private charities. The problem with conservatives and liberals is that both want a big government. They just want the government to do different things with a bunch of money.
Libertarians want a tiny government and only support laws which guard against the taking of life, property and liberty. Hence, under my administration, the prison gates would open and those who committed crimes against themselves would be released, while true, hardened criminals would spend the rest of their natural life behind bars.
Kiwi, I was pretty surprised to find I'd been edited but I think I might have narrowed the objectionable part down. When we talked about whipping I said you asked for it or that you wanted to be whipped. Maybe for someone who has physical abuse in their past to see they asked for it or wanted it would be disturbing. I don't know just taking a stab at it.
Larousse, you're right there is no such thing as non-political. Maybe it would be more accurate to say I hate to argue about politics or that I'm not very interested in discussing politics.
Thanks for the explaination Todd. One reason I tend to stay away from political discussions is that I feel I don't fit neatly into a defined group. Well that & politness of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
If you were to describe the fl_shlight to us would you get edited Todd? It might be a good exercise in restraint to describe what it does.
I may have only just started posting but I have been reading on this site for a couple of months now. This thread has always been one of my favorites. I love the compassion and affection that you all share mixed with a good dose of humor.
In that time I have learnt what a delightful, compassionate lady you are. Even I know the last thing you would ever do is knowingly upset anyone. Why do I have the feeling that someone is now going to post that you have fooled another one? lol
One of the ongoing questions I've asked myself about ex was why he stayed for a year of a fake recovery. I think I may have something of an explanation. ex was playing the Who's My Soul Mate game.
He stayed with me but worked with her & certainly saw her. Since he never admited to an affair he may or may not have been in a PA during that year but in an EA I have to believe. So during this year he would come home see if he liked me or her better that day & act accordingly. He "gave" me a year to see if he "would fall back in love" with me but clearly he didn't.
That's especially true in Mexico. No matter which party you belong to, you have a President of the Republic. What a great system - no losers! (well - except for the PRI of course)
one thing I have managed to learn is that an A is painful for all concerned.
Yes. The A destroys all it touches. It is a malignant disease. It shows no favors and knows no bounds. My WW's A has made nobody happy (including the affairees). The body count just keeps rising. At least I finally understand what the word entitlement means. A dictionary would have been cheaper though.
Hi Pio! Hope all is well. I won't even mention an update.
Oh Todd, how many have gone before you & said they want smaller government only to end hiring more & more, spending more & more so we end up with an even bigger government? Not to mention your privacy will disappear for ever. Do give this run for president some thought. One good thing...you won't have to cook for yourself.
My decision to run for President is due to two reasons:
1. I want to move out of this place; 2. It would be nice to have home-cooked meals for a change.
Our Government is a three headed monster hence the President is limited as to what he/she can do. The Congress loves to spend money. What I would do is that everytime Congress wants to spend money, I would appear on the tube from the Oval Office and decry the unbridled spending. Of course, we Americans love pork barrel spending when it is our district. I would likely be a one-term President.
Do you want to know what I would do about so-called rogue nations? I would be known as President Strangelove.
Sorry Nams, that was my warped sense of humor at work.
I could imagine one of the regular posters coming along, reading my post to you and making that comment in their jocular manner.
Piojitos, my eldest son was considering engagement when the A became common knowledge. He now swears he will never marry. It saddens me greatly to hear him speak of marriage now. The fallout is far spread and diverse.
I am a cancer survivor and yes, it is similiar to that insidious disease.
Thank you for asking me if I would like to post my story. I venture out to the forum and come running back here very quickly. The raw anger and anguish out there destoys me in minutes.
I have attempted to write my story several times. I either get way too emotional and carried away or sound too cold and heartless when I endeavour to be factual. Just can't seem to put it together well at all. I am also highly confused most of the time and that makes it difficult to be coherant.
I have kept my attempts like a journal. Just typing my story out has at least helped a little and been cathartic. I would also have to censor my post or the moderator will be way over worked. I am actually shocked at my own vocabulary when it comes to this subject.
I have attempted to write my story several times. I either get way too emotional and carried away or sound too cold and heartless when I endeavour to be factual. Just can't seem to put it together well at all. I am also highly confused most of the time and that makes it difficult to be coherant.
Hi 2regret,
Amongst the benefits of belonging to MB, the biggest for me personally has been to realize that I am not alone. It is at once depressing and uplifting. I can totally empathize with your quoted statement. When I first arrived at the other site which is not censored, I let loose with some language that was so bad I went back and self-edited my posts. If there was a name to call my WW, OM and enablers, I let them have it. It is a natural consequence of hurt and anger. Over time, I have calmed. I still have my quiet moments of desparation and despair. I usually stay away from MB at those times and self-reflect. I can usually identify the problem.
The other great beneifit of MB is that Dr. Harley has a plan for R your marriage. It frequently works. An advantage of TKO is that it is littered with some intelligent minds and folks who are well-versed in MB principles, deny it as they may....
So, you are welcome here and you are amongst friends. We are ready to help when you are comfortable.
If it is not too personal, you mentioned that you are a cancer survivor. That always perks my ears up a bit. What type of cancer did you have? Did it have anything to do with your WH's infidelity?
Take your time. Don't do something you might have 2regret later. We aren't going anywhere. Go find a favorite subject to post about. Licorice is taken and so are librarians. french bashing is always welcome. Pick something that interests you and explain it to us. I still have a whole lot more I need to learn about pottery glazes but our teacher is not very forthcoming.
No, I certainly don't mind talking about it. I am a year out now and feeling great health wise.
Yes, I do think the A's were interwoven with my illness although my H denies that (but I think he feels like a total louse otherwise). We were trying for our fourth child when I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. The following surgery and treatments put an end to that dream. My H was quite distressed at the time.
We live in (sorry- deleted) which is a beautiful city. My H found very accomodating "attractions" in our neighboring country of Mexico. I guess he needed comforting on a regular basis as he imported one of those attractions to the States and set up house.
(For some reason the song "South of the Border" keeps coming to mind but I guess this is the music/poetry thread!)
Wow, I think I just told my story, no profanity either, just sarcasm and a tinge of anger.
I'm glad you asked me Todd.
Piojitos, This is not my favorite subject but must admit I do get on my soap box regarding regular check ups!
Yes, I do think the A's were interwoven with my illness although my H denies that (but I think he feels like a total louse otherwise). We were trying for our fourth child when I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. The following surgery and treatments put an end to that dream. My H was quite distressed at the time.
Hi Beth,
Thank you for sharing your story. And congratulations on beating your cancer. It is an incredible triumph! You had to deal with a life-threatening illness, the cure for which ended your dream of a fourth child. You must have been crushed. I can understand how it must have also distressed your WH. Undoubtedly, he worried about you and was devastated by the loss of not being able to have a fourth child. Does he accept ownership of his straying? Does he blame it on you or on "circumstances"?
Quote
We live in San Diego which is a beautiful city. My H found very accomodating "attractions" in our neighboring country of Mexico. I guess he needed comforting on a regular basis as he imported one of those attractions to the States and set up house.
I quite agree about San Diego. Several years ago, I attended a company meeting in Irvine. I took Friday off and spent a long weekend in San Diego. Absolutely beautiful and perfect weather. I recall going to a mall because I did not pack enough clothes. It was laid out just like a traditional mall but with no exterior walls. I was impressed. One must have confidence in the weather to do that.
Quote
(For some reason the song "South of the Border" keeps coming to mind but I guess this is the music/poetry thread!)
Yes! This is the music lyrics/poetry thread. When things get slow and nobody posts for a while, I will post song lyrics and/or poetry. It may get me excommunicated from TKO, but hey, no guts, no glory, right?
Quote
I'm glad you asked me Todd.
Me too. As you become more comfortable, please feel free to post additional details. It truly helps to talk about it.
No, I upset Todd. I was sarcastic about him posting his poem but I was joking.
Oh I know! I was just playing around. Trust me, I have thick hide and am not that sensitive. Now, take an axe and chop me into little pieces: that's a different story.
Do you know what it's like with old friends, you cover the same ground over and over. I know I've already said I wrote poetry as a teenager.
Kiwi Fruit,
Did you write poetry as a teen?
I could never publish my poetry here. I am a prose writer. I think it was Mark Twain, hmmm.... or was it Samuel Clemens who said that writing prose is like playing tennis with the net down. It is very true. Same with song lyrics.
Sorry, I haven't quite worked out how to do all the posting tricks yet and I think I type too slowly. By the time my post appears it is pages later and addressed to the wrong person - oops !
Kiwi, I am stuggling with where I am relationship wise. My H wants to R but I am not sure what I want. He wasn't there for me when I needed him the most - that is hard to deal with.
Todd, It depends on which day you ask him, there is a story for every day of the week and one to spare. He does nothing to regain my respect.
Yes, it was heart breaking to go from planning a child to never having another one. I am very, very grateful for the three we have.
My Doctors will not say I have beaten the cancer yet, they quote percentages and years and talk in riddles. But I consider it a victory. There are very many success stories these days.
Beth, you do know that Todd is battling his brain tumour (and winning if our prayers have anything to do it) don't you? There are many, many success stories, it's not the death sentence it once was.
Also, Beth, I wasn't there when my H needed me most either but he chose to fight for me.
LOL, Beth, we all have that problem. We post then suddenly it's 4 pages forward.
I have been reading here for a couple of months at least. It was that damn licorice that forced me out of the closet! So yes I do know about Todd and he has been in my prayers for weeks. I actually feel like I know you all quite well and I have quietly been supporting you all.
You mentioned to me that you were a WS but I do not know anymore of your story. Was your H also ill ?
Todd,
I feel a little rude talking about you behind your back! I hope you don't mind.
I am none too sure the A's have ended. I hired a PI and finally found out the truth about the "love shack" he had set up. (oops another song) But he often goes missing and TJ is not far away. He tells me it is all over and how sorry he is. I wish we needed a passport to go into Mexico as then there would be a paper trail. I asked the vet to implant a tracking chip like he did for our dogs - couldn't understand his hesitation.
I think it is going to be a long search for the truth but I am running out of gas.
You can place a GPS tracking device in his car. Also, some cell phones act as GPS transmitters to meet 911 locational requirements. One more trick that I just learned. Buy a cable that connects his cell phone to a USB port on your computer. There is softare that is downloadable which can be used to pull his text messages, even if he has erased them! Little known trick. Good luck and goodnight.
Artist: The Who Lyrics Song: I Can See For Miles Lyrics 1967 video
I know you've deceived me, now here's a surprise I know that you have 'cause there's magic in my eyes
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah
If you think that I don't know about the little tricks you've played And never see you when deliberately you put things in my way
Well, here's a poke at you You're gonna choke on it too You're gonna lose that smile Beacuse all the while
I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah
You took advantage of my trust in you when I was so far away I saw you holding lots of other guys and now you've got the nerve to say
That you still want me Well, that's as may be But you gotta stand trial Because all the while
I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah
I know you've deceived me, now here's a surprise I know that you have 'cause there's magic in my eyes
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah
The Eiffel Tower and the Taj Mahal are mine to see on clear days You thought that I would need a crystal ball to see right through the haze
Well, here's a poke at you You're gonna choke on it too You're gonna lose that smile Beacuse all the while
I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles And miles and miles and miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles I can see for miles and miles
2regret, if it weren't for sarcasm tinged with anger we'd be lost, hence my Who's My Soul Mate game invented by ex. I never got the truth & that eats at me the most. I don't know for sure he cheated so do I assume because I strongly suspect & have cirumstancial evidence because it would help me move on?
Pottery glaze formulas are boring to talk about unless you're interested in chemicals & how they work. For me, as one who responds in an emotional way to art, but I'm not a bedwetter, it's how the galzes works & makes me feel.
Pleeeeze Todd, a bit more of your poem or song which may include the concept of a guitar as an axe.
I may be related to Lizzy Borden. Does that scare you Todd?
All I can say is at least we have been left alone by the mods for a bit.
I was thinking about something this morning. It would have been so nice if gemela had just said a simple "thank you" for finding her garden in good condition - not perfect but really good. Instead she told me she had met the neighbor in front and the woman just raved about her garden. Well we know who did the work. I don't ask much. A simple thank you?
I will confess I was worried about the parent-teacher meetings and I felt vindicated when they went so well. That was a big victory for me.
BF called some minutes ago. He was victim of a deer ambush. Three deers in front of his car, gave him dirty looks and yelled at him for not feeding them corn.
Oh well. Right now is for their own good, it's hunting season and to feed them would only expose them more.
BF told them to blame Nams and Pio for scaring me about lyme disease.
Sorry I don't have much to report. WW is acting like nothing ever happened. I'm doing my best to try and find a way to be happy. I have not been able to post too much because I am having trouble with my computer monitor (she came home).
Was your WS really interested in recovery he would have had to admit to the A and agree to NC. These are the cornerstones for recovery. I believe he did it for the same reasons all WS do it.....to be able to justify leaving the M AND avoid taking responsibility for CHOOSING to leave the M.
Quote
He "gave" me a year to see if he "would fall back in love" with me but clearly he didn't.
He couldn't, even if he wanted, if there was continued contact with OW.
I may be reading the wrong thing into this....I hope you are not blaming yourself for not having been able TO DO what needed to be done to have him fall back in love with you during that FAKE recovery.
There was NOTHING you could have done if he was not a willing partner.
You mean time to stick my fingers in my ears and go "lalalalalalalalala"
Anybody here familiar with the adventures of ASTERIX? This just reminded me of it...
Every adventure ends with a feast.....where one of the characters, who wants to SING to entertain the group, ALWAYS ends up being 'tied' up and not allowed to......
My H wants to R but I am not sure what I want. He wasn't there for me when I needed him the most - that is hard to deal with.
I think Todd may easily identify with you about this...
You say your H wants to R.....
I don't know how much you have read here..... but in these situations it will be important not to put too much emphasis on what is said....but rather on what is DONE!
Has your H ended contact with OW? ...do you find he is accountable for his time? ....do you find him 'transparent' in general about his activities?
.....trying hard to not 'bombard you' with questions....which, if you are not comfortable, don't have to be answered...
...but as BigK mentioned.....it will be helpful to you to share....if and when you are ready!
...and as you have noticed....we are not shy about offering our suggestions, if you ask us for any (or even if you don't...LOL!)
I'm curious about La Jolla. It sounds a lot like La Joya. Where is larousse to translate? La Joya would be a nice place according to its name. Don't know about La Jolla.
Rumor has it that Denmark deliberately named Greenland and Iceland to make people stay away from Iceland. It isn't a very inviting name. All the tourists went to Greenland. Boy were they surprised. Where is Bigger? We need to settle this.
I have never been to TJ but have heard so much about it. It is made for US tourists who want women, drugs or both. I thought the US was cracking down and that they were going to enforce a law requiring the use of passports to cross the border?
In my travels across Nuevo Laredo and Laredo, I discovered that the border is about a 20 mile wide no man's land where not many rules are enforced. We were checked for passports well past the border (on both sides) and not anywhere near the bridge itself. It was easy for Mexicans to cross into Laredo and for American to cross into Nuevo Laredo without much more than car insurance.
There is softare that is downloadable which can be used to pull his text messages, even if he has erased them! Little known trick.
This, Beth...from the man who has many tricks up his sleeve.....
...and if you need any statistical analysis....you can ask Pio....he impressed me a lot with his 'phone calls' graphs....
...actually....now that I think about it..... we have quite a 'talent' pool around here.... experience with an A, however, is the 'thread' that binds us!
Eu gosto tambem. Eu moro nos EUA ja ha 9 anos mas minha familia esta toda em Sao Paulo.(familia nesse caso = mae, irmaos, etc). Nos vamos visitar sempre, sempre muito bom.
Pleeeeze Todd, a bit more of your poem or song which may include the concept of a guitar as an axe.
Hmm???? No song or poem about axe as guitar. The only pop music reference I can remember to axe is "The Wall". Something like: "Look in the corner, you'll find my favorite axe". I wonder where the nickname axe for a guitar came from? Plus, I am much too shy to publish my own poem or lyrics here.
Quote
I may be related to Lizzy Borden. Does that scare you Todd?
You have just given Todd a reason to post poems: He loves to be 'tied' up.
Actually, it's handcuffs. I wasn't even aware until policwoman cuffed me to the bed to stop me from stopping them from removing my microwave. Then she forgot about me and left me here for three days. It wasn't bad.
I have never been to TJ but have heard so much about it. It is made for US tourists who want women, drugs or both. I thought the US was cracking down and that they were going to enforce a law requiring the use of passports to cross the border?
DS2 went to TJ some years ago. He got separated from his group and was robbed by six hooligans. Guess who he called? Long story but he was okay. Learned a lot.
I cannot tell it. We have a fungus among us. Someone just waiting for an excuse to report another member. Poor Nams. Why did it have to be her? It should have been me. Or.....I don't know....somebody. Anyway, I will not give that person the pleasure.
Guys, question about strategy: 1) Do you think if I don't pressure WH, he will get to NC by himself???!!!! 2) Also, his parents are coming in 10 days (from Germany) to spend 2 or 3 weeks with us. His brother is also coming for a week with his family (from Chicago) during this period. (bat mitvah for H’s DD). What should be my strategy with them right now? They think the A is over and everything is fine. How much info should I give them? How can I "use" them to help my M?
I understand that NC has to be restablished formaly again with the NC letter even when he already sent one.
About exposure, if you think there is a need for more exposure you may do it but don't expect them to do anything specifically. Meaning, you don't tell them to help you to convince him of stopping the affair. You just tell them what's going on.
Good afternoon, I see I screwed up my hasta earlier, meant to say hasta luego not manana, my Spainish isn't THAT bad.
Luna, no I don't blame myself for the fake recovery not working. I fully understand it takes two willing & committed partners to recover the marriage. Just pisses me off from time to time.
I think you are exactly right when you say ex stayed to justify leaving the M & avoid taking responsibility for choosing to leave.
I do think not having the facts about infidelity & feeling lied to has made my recovery harder in some respects.
Pio thanks for the offer to talk glazes with you. I may take you up on that. Here's a general question for you. Companies who sell glazes will use a tile to show the glaze. When you buy their glazes often the results are completely different from the tile. I know different clay formulas will affect the glaze as will what's in a kiln load & the other glazes used on other pieces in the firing. What would the glaze companies want in their tile to show their glaze to it's best advantage?
I use laguna clay & laguna glazes. I originally bought the two thinking I could get the company to share with me which of their glazes work best on which of their clays. But they told me they don't use their own clays when showing a glaze. Seems wrong to me. We're left with trial & error which can get costly. If I buy 5 glazes & 2 come out consistently well I consider myself very lucky. Is it all just a money grab?
I wonder if the "reporter" if there is one, might be scaredy cat. Just a thought.
Todd I understand being too shy to post your poems or song lyrics. The same thing kept me from art for years. When I made the reference to guitar as an axe I thought you were saying the guitar, with its ability to evoke emotion, could cut like an axe. I thought you might be showing us a bit of your work.
Gotta go to middle son's track meet then to back to school night for oldest son. I'm so looking forward to it because ex will be there. Thankfully he doesn't bring gf to these events. Looking on the bright side.
Todd I understand being too shy to post your poems or song lyrics. The same thing kept me from art for years. When I made the reference to guitar as an axe I thought you were saying the guitar, with its ability to evoke emotion, could cut like an axe. I thought you might be showing us a bit of your work.
Hi Nams,
No, I didn't think that but it is a great idea. Very good.
...still wondering whether or not anybody around here has ever heard of Asterix & Obelix.....although I don't know if the cartoon adventures have been translated from.....uhmmmmm.... French..... but...but....but... believe me....the adventures are really funny... it's a parody of the French....... always! ...and really really funny....
Oldest son is acting 15 & I want him to stop. Life is all about him & things not going his way. The only pleasure I get at times like this is when I tell him to end his hissy fit. He hates to think he has hissy fits. Tee hee.
Uh oh "bothwise" could be misconstrued. Let's just see how it plays out.
Todd you're a gentleman to want to take to brunt of censor for me. I don't think there are long term implications...are there?
Kiwi, I'm almost sure that the forums are monitored 24/7. Just because of the way forums work usually. Also when there have been ads of spyware and things like that they are pretty fast removed.
Not to worry Nams. Kiwi spends all her life upside down on the bottom of the world. All the blood rushes to her head and "overcharges" things. One sign of being overcharged is being kind to the French. It is very sad.
I've said it before - there's nothing wrong with the French, even if they did bomb the Rainbow Warrior (Greenpeace's ship) in our very own harbour in the 1980s and killed a photographer on board.
I just love Asterix. I grew up reading Asterix and Tintin. I love the sense of adventure and also all history that is behind those cartoons. I love cartoons (books) in general BTW.
Well Todd, ladies & men eat differently. I could add a salad to round things out a bit but lettuce & spinach simply haven't had the same appeal since they started adding ecoli. Plus I've only wanted hot food for the past week. A cozy head into fall thing I guess.
I did have seafood jumbalya (sp) & beef chili for lunch.
Poor Kiwi hanging upside down for life. Didn't that used to be considered a sort of fountain of youth? Remember those bars with the boots people used to hang upside down.
Nam, you should come here and we would comfort food dinner togehter !
Luna A&O are worldwide known, here at least. Lol. I've a confesion to make... Er, well, er. I like Gerard Depardeau. There I say it. He's my favorite actor. Once I made photoshop of Asterix with Jose Bove face. It fit to a T.
Luna, have you heard of Blueberry, the French cowboy books?
I like Tintin too but it's a little too 'white' and European for my taste, lol. Now don't mention anything about Tintin house in France or Todd will start to look at you suspiciously.
I just remember. Well almost remember. There was a poster that promoted a service in which he would get the password to mail accounts. I tried it once, the first part, never get to send the money. In the first part of the arrengement they send you a 'copy' of the personal info of the mail account you want to have access to. It worked. In the second phase you have to send the money to get the password. They did send me prove they had break into the mail account. I can't remember the name of the 'service' but they have tried to 'announce' themselves in these forums more than once.
I like Tintin too but it's a little too 'white' and European for my taste, lol. Now don't mention anything about Tintin house in France or Todd will start to look at you suspiciously.
Now Larousse, Bad Larousse. Don't tell Estrela that. She is still new to TKO. She won't remember me because I don't post that much, but I had posted to her thread a few months ago. At least I think I did.
Estrela, you are from Brazil right? A lawyer as I recall. WH travels with OW. How are things?
[color:"red"] Todd, do you mean we don't want to traumatize her drastically but submit her to a gradual process of Anti-Frenchness conditioning? [/color]
Todd, there's very good Brazilian rock. One of the big names is Rita Lee, she's daughter of and American militar and an italian. She has opened concerts for the Rolling Stones. She has sense of humor and cool attitude.
Another Brazilian pop-rock singer and compouser. Cassia Eller, other Cazuza, these last two, prematurely dead.
[color:"red"] Todd, do you mean we don't want to traumatize her drastically but submit her to a gradual process of Anti-Frenchness conditioning? [/color]
Oh no, Larousse. I favor quick and immediate immersion of French bashing. It was the Todd will look at your suspiciously portion.....
Hey Larousse,
Who is the guy from Guatemala who is the Latin pop idol? Cannot remember his name but he is a sensation.
BTW, DS2 plays guitar, drums and keyboard and he loves Bosa Nova. My favorite song he plays, as trite as it may seem, is "Girl From Ipanema". He plays all the other stuff too but I don't know all the songs. He says the rhythm is very complex.
Do you mean Ricardo Arjona or Tito Monterroso? Kidding.
Monterroso was one of the great Guatemalian authors. He lived in Mexico most of his adult life. You will like him, he is considered one of the best short short-stories teller. The most famous one is called. El Dinosaurio:
[color:"green"] '...and when I woke up the dinosaur was still there.' [/color]
Most of his work is translated, you would enjoy 'Complete Works and Other Stories'.
just because you are Todd, I will forgive you to have Lambada as your favorite song.
Hey Larousse, what do you have against "Lambada"? My mariachi sings it in Spanish which is fine, but there is no prettier sounding language than Portuguese in my opinion. Todd ducks. Larousse, quit throwing things....
Quote
It depends of who offers the statistics but it's said that Garota de Ipanema is the song more played around the world.
I think I have heard that before. And it has been recorded in like a million languages. All but French. The hapless French cannot find Ipanema on the map.... But anyway, it has to be Ipanema or "Hotel California" the music for which was written by one of my favorite guitarists, Don Felder. My favorite BTW is Duane Allman. Sadly, he was killed at age 24 in a motorcycles accident. If he were still alive, it is difficult to imagine how good he would be.
Quote
The rythm your son means is sincopa.
And to think I thought it was Bosa Nova.
Quote
The Brazilians got the best from the crooners tradition with their amazing melodic and rythmic sense.
Who/what are the crooners?
Quote
American musicians like saxophonist Stan Getz had a lot to do with Bossa Nova internationalization.
I did not know that. For Christmas one year, I bought DS2 a bunch of Brazilian percussive instruments. They are made by a professional musican's company but I cannot remember the name. Contemprania or something like that. Anyway, they have some unusual instruments. The cuica is a sterling example. The player reaches into the drum cavity and rubs a web cotton cloth on the bottom of the top drum skin. It makes a squeaky kind of sound. If you listen to a lot of Bosa Nova, you can usually hear a cuica in the background.
Cuica comes from the Bahia. It sounds appears a little like human voice, don't you think. I bought a cuica for a friend once. I think she never paid me for it. Lol.
You are right about sincopa not been the name of Bossa Nova. How would you say it? Sincopa is the ritmical characteristic of samba musica that influenced other Brazilian styles?
The story is written by a great author, Ruy Guerra and he wrote about Bossa Nova history. Before and during WWII, when Hollywood was more open to other cultures and Carmen Miranda (portuguese by the way) had had great success introducing Brazilian rythms, many Brazilian musicians worked for famous American singers including Frank Sinatra. Tom Jobim worked several years in America as Art Director and doing arrengements. When he come back to Br he directed a record company, I think it was Philipps and he authorized some of the great recordings of the 50's and 60's.
Bossa Nova was born in 1954 with the song 'O desafinado' by Joao Gilberto, a man from the state of Bahia. He wanted something different from the big bands style and the popular rythm of samba. Originally Bossa Nova only had three instruments. Piano, percussion and guitar. Stan Getz added the sax.
Kiwi, I'm almost sure that the forums are monitored 24/7. Just because of the way forums work usually. Also when there have been ads of spyware and things like that they are pretty fast removed.
People report that stuff to the Mods as soon as someone sees it. I am sure the Mods pretty much rely on we the people to report bad stuff. Of course, a thread like this where so much trouble is caused is probably monitored. I really think TKO moves too fast for Justuss so she probably deleted Nams's post because someone got their knickers in a twist. Sad.
Guys, question about strategy: 1) Do you think if I don't pressure WH, he will get to NC by himself???!!!! 2) Also, his parents are coming in 10 days (from Germany) to spend 2 or 3 weeks with us. His brother is also coming for a week with his family (from Chicago) during this period. (bat mitvah for H’s DD). What should be my strategy with them right now? They think the A is over and everything is fine. How much info should I give them? How can I "use" them to help my M?
1. If WH is still in any contact with OW, the affair is still ongoing. I don't know if pressure will work. If he works with OW, one of them needs to find a new job. For me, NC is a boundary - ie if my wife could not maintain NC with her affair partner I would divorce her.
2. Exposure is for busting up an active affair. If WH is still in his affair, you should set your family straight about the affair still being active. If the affair is truely over, such action is unnecessary and punitive. The only people that need to know about an affair after it is over are the BS's of the WS's and children in the right time.
Comfort food dinner for me at early bird hour. A hard roll with cheese melted on top until bubbly.
I made enough comfort food last eve for an army...from scratch...beef stew and a stock pot full of homemade chicken noodle soup! Figured with the weather cooling off and so much on the go with soccer I could quickly heat and serve in the next 72 hours!
The roll and cheese sounds like it goes better with wine though!
Back to school night went well. Oldest son is doing well, looks like 90's or above for all subjects. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Idjiot ex was there, good for son, but can make my skin crawl on occassion. He had his stooopid Hawaiian shirt rolled up a bit to better see his stooopid MLC tattoos. His stooopid long hair & his dumb, stooopid boots. click, click like ladies shoes as he walks down the hall... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I LOVE soup 2much, I always ask what the soup de jour is in any restaurant I go to.
I really like butternut squash soup & a Portuguese fish & veg. soup called ciopino. I live in an area that was once a big Portuguese fishing village. It's now antique store & real estate offices for the most part & some trendy little shops, one of which carries some of my work. Hasn't sold any but the work sits there.
Lots of New Yorkers come here for the quaintness, move here then complain of the fishing trucks making noise. Sorry if I've offended any New Yorkers.
Estrela, you are from Brazil right? A lawyer as I recall. WH travels with OW. How are things?
Hi Todd, thanks for asking. I am from Brazil (all the music talk just made me homesick). I live in NY/NJ since 1997. I am a lawyer both in Br and here (since last year!). things are better. WH broke up A (at least PA). So no more travels, they don't work together anymore. HOWEVER, they still communicate. If they meet, it's during the day, but I don't want to believe they do.
[quote1. If WH is still in any contact with OW, the affair is still ongoing. I don't know if pressure will work. If he works with OW, one of them needs to find a new job. For me, NC is a boundary - ie if my wife could not maintain NC with her affair partner I would divorce her.
2. Exposure is for busting up an active affair. If WH is still in his affair, you should set your family straight about the affair still being active. If the affair is truely over, such action is unnecessary and punitive. The only people that need to know about an affair after it is over are the BS's of the WS's and children in the right time. [/quote]
Thanks BigK.I will continue this battle for NC. H needs to understand that NC is basic for R. H and OW don't work together anymore but she still contacts him to get business advice (that's whar he claims). From his behaviour, I believe worst is over, but no NC is also a deal breaker for me. I want H to understand this and act accordingly without LB and DJ. Tough.
WHY do they communicate? That is unacceptable - at least it would be to me. A dealbreaker.
I am completly in agreement with you. I just found out last week that they still talk (checking his Aug/ Sept cell phone bills). I thought even the talks were over. I've been asking, and H've lying about it. (cell bills of July did not show her number) When confronted, he said it was about business or questions she had on business. I really don't know and I really care and I made it clear for him. I want him to make a new NC, a little stronger this time. But then, he got sick, so I'm waiting H to get better... to crush him!
Once upon a time in a closed book of my life I lived in what Todd fondly terms the People's Republic of MA...during the winter months I made a different soup each week and must admit the aforementioned soup was the best! I also love squash casserole. When I was young and experimenting I tried to make spaghetti squash but had a butternut...it was pretty funny...same year I ordered Thanksgiving Dinner from the grocer expecting it to be fully cooked...when I brought it home the turkey was uncooked and we ended up eating about midnight...who sells uncooked turkey as a part of a dinner????? I attended the elementary, middle, high and university of hard knocks...I am currently enrolled in the Hard Knock Graduate Studies Program <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd - I don't think you have ANY good jokes - you're all talk. You never even give us a crumb
Okay, but nobody shoot me.
Coyote ugly is when you go out drinking all night and the next day when you wake up, there is a woman laying on your arm. She is so ugly that you chew your arm off so you can leave without waking her.
Nearly the end of work on Friday. Well, it's 2.30pm - that's nearly the end of work isn't it.
I heard that soup de jour joke the other day on the radio. The customer asks the waiter what the soup de jour is and the waiter rushes off to the kitchen and comes back with a big smile and says "It's the soup of the day."
There was another one where the Prime Minister is dining with two aides. The waiter asks what she'd like. She says "I'd like a big sirloin steak medium rare."
Are they Canadian French or France French? Makes a BIG difference.
Nams...promise me you will check it out....because I will not do it justice....
...the premise is a small village in GAULE 50 years B.C. It's the only village left that the Romans have not conquered... the village has a 'druide' who can cook up a magic potion that Asterix (and often the whole village) drinks to make him 'strong'...now...his best friend Obelix (who is my favourite BTW) doesn't need to drink it...he is always very strong....because he fell into the potion when he was small!
The characters are loveable...there are 'running gags' that someone keep on making you laugh.... and actually one looks for....every culture, every country, every tradition and all of history is revisited and rewritten.....but the structure never changes..... Asterix and Obelix always WIN.... the Romans are always being outdone... there is always a celebration at the end.... what make the stories are all the references that occur 'in between'.....
...it is really really funny.....you need to read a few to start catching the 'running gags'....
Although movies have been made... nothing beats the originals..... texts by De Goscinny and cartoons by De Uderzo...
Idjiot ex was there, good for son, but can make my skin crawl on occassion. He had his stooopid Hawaiian shirt rolled up a bit to better see his stooopid MLC tattoos. His stooopid long hair & his dumb, stooopid boots. click, click like ladies shoes as he walks down the hall...
Hi Nams...I see that seeing you ex got to you as much as it got to me seeing WS getting into car with OW just across the street when I went to pick up DS10! (....and yes...everyone saw everyone)...
I just HATE....encounters with WS.... my whole body goes into 'survival mode'..... GAWD!
I couple of months ago the company began a recycling campaign. We all got three different colored trash cans and matching liner bags to recycle glass, plastic and aluminum. We use a lot of aluminum - so mush so that we easily fill a bag before Friday's collection day. We are okay on plastic and it will be roughly 9 more years before we fill up one single "glass" bag. There is no point to our recycling. It all gets thrown in the same hole in the desert. A few expats just complained that we didn't recycle and that makes very bad PR so the company decided to start. These expats are the same people who report to mods BTW.
Anyway, I bought a can crusher in Yeager's. It allows you to stack up cans and crush away - kind of semi-automatic. I installed it yesterday and I called the DDs out to the garage to try it because we had a bin full of empty aluminum cans. They loved it. They played with it all afternoon. Afterward they hugged me and thanked me and told me it was the nicest present I had ever gotten them. Go figure.
That's right, all the Brasil discussion and I betrayed myself... ops!
On another note, I just had another "talk" with H (I don't want to put the W before anymore, but I'm not ready to call him FW neither). He agreed to write NC as sample in SAA. He explained that he's used to talk to OW, that they became friends. I explained that he's just postponing finishing the A, that a friendship with OW is not acceptable. He said he's still in touch with old GFs. Do I have to explain to him why this situation is different? Well, I did. So he said he would sever contact with her.
Question: He will send her an e-mail and bcc me. Can I send her a personal note saying something along these lines: "You've already caused enough pain for me and my family. Do not contact my husband, under any pretext, ever again." ???
You are so cheating Stef. You don't post to us anymore.
That's right stef. We have your cell records!
I do still post here...but if you have records, I guess I've been busted! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Then we can be cheaters together...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I just feel very selfish by posting my stories all the time. I don't feel like I have much to contribute to you guys. My thread is my safe zone, I guess.
Stef - Don't sweat it. This thread is a strange mix of people and ideas and fun. It's a place for you to relax and chill out or get good advice. This thread is all over the place. It is whatever you or any poster wants it to be. You are not in any way being selfish. You contribute a lot here as it happens.
I was so thrilled to hear you had been to my home town Lunamare. I love (sorry-deleted) so much and will hopefully never live anywhere else. I hope it is okay to copy a little information here in my post.
(sorry everyone)
I am heading to bed as it has been a long day. Tomorrow I get another report from my PI. Perhaps it will be good news, there is always that possibility. I think I live in Paradise, let's hope it not Fools Paradise.
How could you possibly offend anyone here with a joke about ugly women Todd?
I did like the part about looking for a one armed man.
If stph is a cheater so am I. I started out at MB on the emotional needs forum, switched to divorced/relationships forum then came here. Mostly I post here but I do post on all three. How's that for transparency & honesty?
ToddAC was a bad, bad boy last night. I fully intended to eat a healthy dinner but as I rounded the corner to the deli, I could hear the sounds of the mariachi emanating from the Mexican restaurant. At first, my steps toward the deli were unaffected. But then, like the sweet flute music that appears to hypnotize the Cobra, the marachi drew me closer. I thought: well, I will just walk towards the restaurant to hear the music better, but I never turned back. So instead of a healthy supper, I loaded up with all kinds of lavish, not-good-for-you food. And the mariachi was great as always. Except this time, I asked if they played "Girl from Ipanema". The lead guy who plays the fiddle, winced, like, hey leave us alone, why don't you want to hear Tequila like all the drunks in here? But they humored me and played Ipanema. Not bad.
I have noticed that they pay attention to me when they see me. I figure this is due to one of two reasons: (i) they geniuinely like me; they must, they get a good laugh from my poor Spanish and/or (ii) I tip so well. I don't know what others tip, but I would bet big bucks and give you fantastic odds that I am the best tipper in the place.
I also had a MM on the rocks instead of Tecate or Corona. The first drink was very well poured. Nothing like a bartender who knows his business. The second drink, well, the second drink was in a glass twice the size of the first glass, and man, did he have a limp wrist during that pour. I even sent him a tip before I left.
There was one ugly spot. There were several tables pull together and seated around the tables were a large group of folks who were (i)drunk and (ii) obnoxiously loud. I saw the marachi easing towards me and I knew I would never hear the music if the group continued. I studied the group for a while, picked out the likely social leader and walked directly over to him. I explained that I knew they were having a good time, but that the band was playing and the other patrons could hardly hear, plus there were kids who did not need the hear some of the language coming from their direction. He stood up and we stood toe to toe. We stared at each other for a full thirty seconds, then he said, no problem, sorry for the disturbance. They were much quieter after that.
All in all, a wonderful night. Except for when I got back to my place. You know, I was alone....
No, no Todd I was joking. I've heard that joke many times but with the new twist of looking for a one armed man...it was funny. Hey, if I gave it some thought I could probably come up with some...man...jokes someone may not like.
Like I've said before, if people don't like what they read here they can go elsewhere.
Good for you going over to the big, loud table. I'm glad it worked out the way it did, sounds like it could have gone either way.
[color:"blue"] Good morning Nam, Todd, Big K, [/color]
Todd you were a bad boy ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
MM are Margaritas?
I bet you will make your Mariachi to wide their Brazilian music catalog.
Somedays in Rio I would go to A Academia da Cachaca to have a caipirinha with a plate of aipim. Maybe Estrela can tell us what's the name for aipim in English. It's fantastic.
I'm impressed that you spoke with the group leader at the restaurant. Sometimes we are too tolerant of unacceptable social behavior.
I was so thrilled to hear you had been to my home town Lunamare. I love La Jolla so much and will hopefully never live anywhere else.
Hi 2regret,
I am totally jealous...
If you have been lurking for awhile....you must have come across some posts from Believer.... well....had it not been for the fact that she was visiting her ailing father when I was there....I just about 'hooked up' with Believer!
It is a very BEAUTIFUL town....I throroughly enjoyed my stay there!
No, no Todd I was joking. I've heard that joke many times but with the new twist of looking for a one armed man...it was funny. Hey, if I gave it some thought I could probably come up with some...man...jokes someone may not like.
Well, thanks nams. I have always thought the followon joke about looking for the one-armed man was the funnier of the two. But hey, make all the man jokes you so desire. We deserve them.
Quote
Like I've said before, if people don't like what they read here they can go elsewhere.
Hmm.... Nams. You could be Libertarian material, know that?
Quote
Good for you going over to the big, loud table. I'm glad it worked out the way it did, sounds like it could have gone either way.
I was very fortunate for the way it did turn out. That table was the worst assemblage of loud drunks I have ever seen. And it is unfair to ask the wait staff to do anything because there goes their tip. I swore I would never do it again because the last such time was in a movie theater. The same high school couple follows me to every movie I attempt to see. There was one movie where the couple behind me talked all the way through. I politely turned around and asked them to please be quiet. Well, one cannot read eyes in a darkened theater so the high school kid wanted to "park it outside". I knew I had scraped bottom. I have not been back to the movies since then and that was several years ago. I am content to watch DVD's. That's why I had a home theater with a 100" screen installed, so I could enjoy the "big screen" in comfort and quiet.
All in all, a wonderful night. Except for when I got back to my place. You know, I was alone....
Todd...they say, in life, you cannot have it all....so....I suggest you focus on the 'wonderful night'...otherwise...at this pace....you will not have any body parts left...
[color:"blue"] Good morning Nam, Todd, Big K, [/color]
Good morning Larousse,
Now I am seeing blue. Geez...
Quote
Todd you were a bad boy ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yes, I was.
Quote
MM are Margaritas?
Oh Gawd no Larousse. I drink nothing with sugar in it. My drinks are limited to MM (Maker's Mark, a bourbon), wine but only with dinner and never French, beer and okay, big confession here: cognac. Yes, French cognac. It is the only thing they produce that is worthwhile. I used to buy their tires but switched to German tires several years ago.
Quote
I bet you will make your Mariachi to wide their Brazilian music catalog.
I hope so. We have a running joke that they never know any of the songs I request. But they are so talented, that they have been able to figure out two of them: Lambada and Ipanema. Yet to figure out: Nuca en Domingo. They are incredibly talented.
Quote
I'm impressed that you spoke with the group leader at the restaurant. Sometimes we are too tolerant of unacceptable social behavior.
Larousse, you impress waaaay too easily. It was a calculated risk. I am able to remain perfectly calm in those situations and if someone can read eyes at all, they can see that. Just a result to too many similar confrontations growing up. It is a good thing it turned out for the better. I am in no physical shape to do much these days.
All in all, a wonderful night. Except for when I got back to my place. You know, I was alone....
Todd...they say, in life, you cannot have it all....so....I suggest you focus on the 'wonderful night'...otherwise...at this pace....you will not have any body parts left...
Hi Luna,
LMAO. Well, it couldn't be helped. I mean, well, it couldn't be helped, that's all. That's all folks....
Stef - Don't sweat it. This thread is a strange mix of people and ideas and fun. It's a place for you to relax and chill out or get good advice. This thread is all over the place. It is whatever you or any poster wants it to be. You are not in any way being selfish. You contribute a lot here as it happens.
Thank you. I feel more comfortable doing my whining in my thread sometimes though! Todd might yell at me again! (I am just kidding , BTW, don't anybody feel bad again!). If I need it, feel free to yell. But don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. You all miss me when I do!
Plus I was getting advice over there from people who don't post here and that was nice. I need as many different perspectives as possible!
Plus I was getting advice over there from people who don't post here and that was nice. I need as many different perspectives as possible!
Hi stef,
You raise a good point. Just bear in mind that not all advice you receive will be in keeping with MB prinicples. That is one advantage of this lowly thread: the BigK is an MB scholar, no matter how much he denies it.
HaHa....there may be some hope for the French, yet!
Luna, I wouldn't go that far. I boycott every other French product. I used to buy the tires with the baby inside them. Never got a baby however. I wanted to sue Michelin for false advertising but no attorney would touch the case. But yes, I hate to admit it, but I absolutely love cognac. And Monet. Not their music however and I don't care for their rich food with sauces ladled all over it.
The last French restaurant I ate in was in Dallas and that was approx. 1987. It was a company function, at least for the three of us. It was a Russian American, an Italian and myself. Of course, the Italian guy spoke perfect French and perfect English and I assume perfect Italian. He ordered his complete meal in French. Never been so embarrased in my life. The food was awful BTW.
Well, all is quiet on the Western front, so here are some song lyrics. Fair warning had been issued. The song is The Beatles' "Taxman" in which the suddenly rich George laments the UK tax system which at that time, had 95% tax rates for top earners. In the song, George got the math correct. And you thought they were just pretty boys. And in another song, "Come Together", John also establishes his mathematical superiorty with the lyrics, "one and one and one is three". To be technically correct, John should have written: one plus one plus one equals three. The word "and" indicates a comma. Should it be "is" or "are" three? I have no idea. Anyway, Taxman. This song could be a theme song for the Libertarian Party.
Let me tell you how it will be There's one for you, nineteen for me 'cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Should five per cent appear too small Be thankful I don't take it all 'cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman
If you drive a car, I'll tax the street, If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat. If you get too cold I'll tax the heat, If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.
Don't ask me what I want it for If you don't want to pay some more 'cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Now my advice for those who die Declare the pennies on your eyes 'cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman And you're working for no one but me.
Plus I was getting advice over there from people who don't post here and that was nice. I need as many different perspectives as possible!
Hi stef,
You raise a good point. Just bear in mind that not all advice you receive will be in keeping with MB prinicples. That is one advantage of this lowly thread: the BigK is an MB scholar, no matter how much he denies it.
Hi Todd- I do forget that not everyone will bear MB principles. I think everyone that has posted to me has though. I hope so anyway! No, everone's advice has been along the same lines, so I think I'm safe. When in doubt, I'll ask BigK! And he reads my thread so if I'm steered wrong, I'm sure he'll turn me back around. And I won't stop posting here, because I think everyone has good advice and ideas. Plus, you guys make me feel better and make me laugh.
I am doing okay. I will have the "final final" talk with WW this weekend. I will let her know, once again, NC unless and until she can tell the truth. This time I will enforce it. I swear. If not, you can scream at me, lol. I will then proceed to write a Plan B letter and also outline the conditions for us to R. She will refuse all of them so the only remaining question is whether she will come to her senses before I file for D. My guess is no. I don't think there is any chance. One thing I have learned here at MB is patience. I also want to be able to look myself in the mirror years from now and know that I gave my marriage every change to succeed and it was beyond my control that it didn't. Of course, assuming it comes to that.
On the health front, I feel a little better everyday. I get the second followup MRI next Thursday. Bright and early that morning in fact but I probably won't hear any word from my doc until Friday. I am optimistic and look forward to positive news this time.
I'm glad to hear you're doing OK. I am sad that you have to have a final talk with WW though. I hope that she comes to her senses soon before it's too late. How long do you plan to give her before you file? I hope it all turns out the way it should for you. You always have us to fall back on.
Good luck on your MRI. I have a feeling you'll be OK there too. Keep us posted on what's going on. I worry and I know others here do too.
I am holding up OK. Today is an OK day. But that could change tomorrow or even this afternoon. It's all up and down for me. I'm never better than OK, and I would like to be, I'm just not there yet. I'm trying to stay positive and patient. I really need to learn that patience thing!
I'm glad to hear you're doing OK. I am sad that you have to have a final talk with WW though. I hope that she comes to her senses soon before it's too late. How long do you plan to give her before you file? I hope it all turns out the way it should for you. You always have us to fall back on.
Thanks stef. The hold up has been for some time that my health insurance is through her group policy at her work. I obviously need the coverage for the forseeable future. In tandem, I am also managing DS3's perception of what is going on. WW fills his head with propaganda so he tends me put me on the defensive. After I talk with WW, I will get in touch with DS3 before she does.
Quote
Good luck on your MRI. I have a feeling you'll be OK there too. Keep us posted on what's going on. I worry and I know others here do too.
No, don't worry. I can beat anything. That is my attitude in life and with this alien inside me. And yes, I will be fine.
Quote
I am holding up OK. Today is an OK day. But that could change tomorrow or even this afternoon. It's all up and down for me. I'm never better than OK, and I would like to be, I'm just not there yet. I'm trying to stay positive and patient. I really need to learn that patience thing!
You know stef, you show a lot of patience that you may not realize. Especially given your youthful age. Heck, I was still reading comic books at your age, so give yourself some credit when it is due.
I would have liked to been a fly on the wall when superman took on the drunken latino's!!! I'll be thinking of you with final WW talks...my WH acting like a horses a$$ today...accusing me of wanting some young guy...as if...anyway I wanted you to know I'll be thinking of you and cheering for you to stand your ground. I'll be pretty busy over w/e and don't know how much opportunity to post I'll get so I'm being proactive.
I'm having a rough emotional day today...guess I was due. Getting so tired of all this mess. I need to go get busy, my emotions change like the price of gas...no rhyme or reason...just keep escalating
I would have liked to been a fly on the wall when superman took on the drunken latino's!!!
Yeah, I think it was the red cape that did the trick. And they were not Latino's. They appeared to be a culturally mixed group, that's why I figured they were a work group assembled after office hours. It was actually all very low key. I knew I had to single out one guy because to try to talk to the entire table would have stirred up too much testosterone. But anyway, all was well and I heard the mariachi.
Quote
I'll be thinking of you with final WW talks...
Thanks 2much. I am resolute again and will definitely let her know do not call me again unless and until she is ready to tell the truth and show some remorse for her actions.
Quote
I'm having a rough emotional day today...guess I was due. Getting so tired of all this mess. I need to go get busy, my emotions change like the price of gas...no rhyme or reason...just keep escalating
Gosh 2much, I can clearly understand why. I hope you have a quick resolution and that the best solution comes forth quickly. You have been through 2much, 2much.
No, don't worry. I can beat anything. That is my attitude in life and with this alien inside me. And yes, I will be fine.
I know you will be fine and I know you can beat this, but it's just human nature to worry about people you care about. What kind of treatments have you had? My grandfather (who is my hero) just had surgery due to complications from prostate cancer, but they were able to remove the cancer a couple of years ago. It runs in the family, so he always got regular checkups so they were able to catch it in time. So I worry about tumors and such with anybody.
Quote
You know stef, you show a lot of patience that you may not realize. Especially given your youthful age. Heck, I was still reading comic books at your age, so give yourself some credit when it is due.
Thank you for that and your support. I don't feel patient and I don't think I'm patient, but if you say so, then it must be true! I'm ready to take this bull by the horns and get going on this R!
I just bought my dog a brand new squeak toy and he destroyed it within 5 minutes! He's not usually that destructive that quickly. Normally it's about 10 minutes! What a waste of $4! And it was a cute squeaky hammer too. Oh well, at least I'll get to sleep tonight, he won't be able to squeak it all night!
can you recommend a good cognac? Now that the weather is cooler I may have to switch my wine habit to cognac...I used to drink Remy Martin way back when, but it's been so long I figured a seasoned, well rounded biz guy like yourself would be able to advise
I am a very simple person but when I find something I enjoy I like to enjoy a small quality sampling vs. bundles of mediocrity...guess that's what frustrates me about the M...used to be like similiar to above...has plunged beneath mediocrity and fear will never rise above it...told H I didn't want either one of us "settling"...I deserve better...can't speak for him:)
I know you will be fine and I know you can beat this, but it's just human nature to worry about people you care about. What kind of treatments have you had? My grandfather (who is my hero) just had surgery due to complications from prostate cancer, but they were able to remove the cancer a couple of years ago. It runs in the family, so he always got regular checkups so they were able to catch it in time. So I worry about tumors and such with anybody.
Because of the tumor's location, it is inoperable. So, radiation is the treatment of choice. I went through a regimented five week course of two to three daily doses of radiation. The approach is called hyperfractionated which simply means the doseage is divided over time. It gives better results for many types of tumors as compared to a large single blast which is extremely dibilitating.
can you recommend a good cognac? Now that the weather is cooler I may have to switch my wine habit to cognac...I used to drink Remy Martin way back when, but it's been so long I figured a seasoned, well rounded biz guy like yourself would be able to advise
Rémy Martin is my drug of choice when it comes to cognac. There are many quality levels especially within the Rémy Martin line. I would say let your pocketbook be your guide, provided however that you at least stay with VSOP. In my opinion, it is the minimum quality level to make it truly enjoyable. If you feel like spending or spoiling yourself, go for XO or even Louis XIII. There is nothing quite like a snifter of cognac on a cold, rainy or snowy night.
Quote
I am a very simple person but when I find something I enjoy I like to enjoy a small quality sampling vs. bundles of mediocrity...
Well, heck in that case, go for the Louis XIII. A little aside, I have a close friend who lives in Wellesley in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. He is a Greek American. His Dad gave him a case of WW2 vintage Metaxa which is essentially Greek cognac. He broke out a bottle for the two of us and it was fine as silk I tell you. Really loosens the lips. Yeah, just what I need, lol.
Quote
guess that's what frustrates me about the M...used to be like similiar to above...has plunged beneath mediocrity and fear will never rise above it...told H I didn't want either one of us "settling"...I deserve better...can't speak for him:)
I can understand completely. I would never go back to the marriage I separated from in March. There is so much that would have to change for the quality to be acceptable to me.
What did your H say in response to your statement?
A co-worker asked me yesterday if I was doing OK. I told her sometimes. And that's the best way to describe it. I never expected such a roller coaster ride of emotion. I didn't even know I possessed some of the emotions I've felt throughout this. And I'm only 7 weeks into this. Time has flown by. I never thought I could hurt so bad to actually be numb.
I had a difficult childhood with my biological dad and I wrote him off when I was 15. I had no contact whatsoever with him until I was getting married. My mom made me call him then. She felt he needed to be there. Since then it's been very limited contact and I haven't spoken to him for over a year again. I have no feelings for him at all. I just don't care about him. Anyway, I was thinking about this yesterday...it's pretty easy for me to write people off. I'm not proud of that, but that's how I am, because of my dad and all the hurt he put me through. What confuses me, is that WH did the ultimate act of hurt, yet I still want to save my M? I'm so in love with him still, that I can't just let go. My stubbornness could be a part of that too, but even after everything my dad put me through, I've never been so hurt as to become numb. I didn't even know that was possible until now. And it's an awful way to be and it's horrendous for someone to do that to another person...yet it's all over this forum and it happens in most marriages. It's just so sad to me that the one person you're supposed to love the most in this world is the one person you hurt the most by being selfish and stupid. I'm going to stop now, I'm getting aggravated. I want to go shake WH now and throw something at him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Because of the tumor's location, it is inoperable. So, radiation is the treatment of choice. I went through a regimented five week course of two to three daily doses of radiation. The approach is called hyperfractionated which simply means the doseage is divided over time. It gives better results for many types of tumors as compared to a large single blast which is extremely dibilitating.
So will the MRI next week show if the radiation has been working?
A co-worker asked me yesterday if I was doing OK. I told her sometimes. And that's the best way to describe it. I never expected such a roller coaster ride of emotion. I didn't even know I possessed some of the emotions I've felt throughout this. And I'm only 7 weeks into this. Time has flown by. I never thought I could hurt so bad to actually be numb.
I wish I had saved some of my earlier posts. You would not believe the roller coaster of emotions that I rode. And, trust me, while I am intense, I am not that emotional of a guy. But WW's affair opened up something inside of me that I at once did not understand nor like. I remember announcing once that I had climbed off the roller coaster and I was off for good. Then good ol' Pio told me, you are nowhere near being done with the roller coaster. Alas, he was right. I still get on it sometimes, but the intervals are much longer and I no longer ride the "Great American Scream Machine" here at Six Flags, but the "Little Express". So, it gets better with time.
Quote
I had a difficult childhood with my biological dad and I wrote him off when I was 15. I had no contact whatsoever with him until I was getting married. My mom made me call him then. She felt he needed to be there. Since then it's been very limited contact and I haven't spoken to him for over a year again. I have no feelings for him at all. I just don't care about him. Anyway, I was thinking about this yesterday...it's pretty easy for me to write people off. I'm not proud of that, but that's how I am, because of my dad and all the hurt he put me through. What confuses me, is that WH did the ultimate act of hurt, yet I still want to save my M? I'm so in love with him still, that I can't just let go. My stubbornness could be a part of that too, but even after everything my dad put me through, I've never been so hurt as to become numb. I didn't even know that was possible until now. And it's an awful way to be and it's horrendous for someone to do that to another person...yet it's all over this forum and it happens in most marriages. It's just so sad to me that the one person you're supposed to love the most in this world is the one person you hurt the most by being selfish and stupid. I'm going to stop now, I'm getting aggravated. I want to go shake WH now and throw something at him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
We often deal with hurt with coping or defense mechanisms. It could be that your writing your Dad off is a way to cope and to prevent more hurt from your Dad. IOW, if you shut him out of your life, he cannot hurt you.
With WH, you had a good relationship with him and that is what makes it hard now. But, if you are that way, and do not get intervention, like IC, the day may come when you write WH off as well. If he doesn't come to his senses for a long time, you must certainly will, because we all do calculations about how long we can and should wait. My own fuse is getting short. Are you in IC? Forgive me for not remembering.
[quote] So will the MRI next week show if the radiation has been working?
That is the hope. The first followup MRI showed no shrinkage so I have a lot of hope riding on this one. However, at this point, I am not aware of proper expectations. I was counseled not to put too much stock into a single MRI, but I don't know when no change becomes bad news. But, I am not even thinking that way now.
[quote] So will the MRI next week show if the radiation has been working?
That is the hope. The first followup MRI showed no shrinkage so I have a lot of hope riding on this one. However, at this point, I am not aware of proper expectations. I was counseled not to put too much stock into a single MRI, but I don't know when no change becomes bad news. But, I am not even thinking that way now.
Always think positive. You'll be fine. Can you continue on in the radiation? I'm not sure how that all works, but I thought there was some type of treatment that you could only do for so long...it may be chemo.
I can understand completely. I would never go back to the marriage I separated from in March. There is so much that would have to change for the quality to be acceptable to me.
What did your H say in response to your statement?
My WH will not discuss much in person...he becomes aggravated easily and shuts down. If we are at home and something is mentioned that he doesn't like or doesn't want to discuss he will either leave or play the silence game. In public he will just clam up and not speak. We went out on a date about 6wks ago, the place we went was desolate and no one at the bar...it was a week night and bar to close in 30min...we sit down, I order a drink... and we exchange a few words...he initiates M talk...in less than 30 seconds he is pissed and doesn't say a single word for the next 20 minutes as I sip my martini...we leave...end of story. If I text him and he doesn't like the content...no reply...on the phone...hangs up...email=no reply back and YET he told the MC that he doesn't like how I communicate with him and MC told me I needed to try alternate forms of comm...should I look into telepathy? maybe sign language or perhaps singing telegrams...that would be great...I could hire a singing telegram to tell WH conditions of M!!!! LOL, ROFLMAO...
Aren't you glad you asked how WH responded...he didn't! No response is in fact a response of it's own in my world.
You would not believe the roller coaster of emotions that I rode. And, trust me, while I am intense, I am not that emotional of a guy. But WW's affair opened up something inside of me that I at once did not understand nor like. I remember announcing once that I had climbed off the roller coaster and I was off for good. Then good ol' Pio told me, you are nowhere near being done with the roller coaster. Alas, he was right. I still get on it sometimes, but the intervals are much longer and I no longer ride the "Great American Scream Machine" here at Six Flags, but the "Little Express". So, it gets better with time.
I said that same thing not too long ago myself...I wanted to get off the roller coaster, I was done. And I believe it was MelodyLane (forgive me if it was someone else on my thread) that told me I was far from being done with the ride. I'm trying my best to hang on for dear life now. I don't go on rides that go upside down and that's all this one is! Who can blame me for wanting to get off? I might be able to deal with it better once it's the "Log Flume". Or a nice, easy Merry-Go-Round.
Quote
We often deal with hurt with coping or defense mechanisms. It could be that your writing your Dad off is a way to cope and to prevent more hurt from your Dad. IOW, if you shut him out of your life, he cannot hurt you.
With WH, you had a good relationship with him and that is what makes it hard now. But, if you are that way, and do not get intervention, like IC, the day may come when you write WH off as well. If he doesn't come to his senses for a long time, you must certainly will, because we all do calculations about how long we can and should wait. My own fuse is getting short. Are you in IC? Forgive me for not remembering.
That's exactly why I wrote him off. He had hurt me so much that I decided at 15 that I was done. I didn't need to be hurt anymore and I wasn't going to be around for him to use as his "punching bag" (he was never physically abusive). So, that was it for me. I never looked back and I don't regret my decision. But I was also thinking yesterday, amid all of this, that I never had the emotional attachment to my dad that I had with WH. So maybe by becoming numb to it all is giving me the opportunity to want to heal and go forward with him? I don't know. They say the average A lasts 2 years? I do know that I will NOT wait that long for him to make up his mind. In my mind, I'm going to work on Plan A for 6 months and if it hasn't worked, I don't think I'm going to go on with Plan B, it'll be straight to D. I can't hang on that long, at some point I'm going to have to move forward. Whether it's with him or without him is up to him.
I was having counselling sessions with the pastor at my church, but I haven't been since Sept. 12 (the day after WH moved out). I come here for that!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I don't think she was able to do much good for me, because she never talked to WH (he wouldn't go).
MC told me I needed to try alternate forms of comm...should I look into telepathy? maybe sign language or perhaps singing telegrams...that would be great...I could hire a singing telegram to tell WH conditions of M!!!! LOL, ROFLMAO...
I can understand completely. I would never go back to the marriage I separated from in March. There is so much that would have to change for the quality to be acceptable to me.
What did your H say in response to your statement?
My WH will not discuss much in person...he becomes aggravated easily and shuts down. If we are at home and something is mentioned that he doesn't like or doesn't want to discuss he will either leave or play the silence game. In public he will just clam up and not speak. We went out on a date about 6wks ago, the place we went was desolate and no one at the bar...it was a week night and bar to close in 30min...we sit down, I order a drink... and we exchange a few words...he initiates M talk...in less than 30 seconds he is pissed and doesn't say a single word for the next 20 minutes as I sip my martini...we leave...end of story. If I text him and he doesn't like the content...no reply...on the phone...hangs up...email=no reply back and YET he told the MC that he doesn't like how I communicate with him and MC told me I needed to try alternate forms of comm...should I look into telepathy? maybe sign language or perhaps singing telegrams...that would be great...I could hire a singing telegram to tell WH conditions of M!!!! LOL, ROFLMAO...
Aren't you glad you asked how WH responded...he didn't! No response is in fact a response of it's own in my world.
Honestly 2much, it sounds like you need to educate your MC. Alernate forms of communicating? How about alternatives to infidelity? Sadly, half of all MC's graduate in the bottom half of their class. Most are not skilled in MC since most do general therapy. Most get their opinions from popular books. Don't believe it? Read the reviews at Amazon. Amazing how many MC's get their opinions from writers. If they get their opinions from Harley, Pittman or Glass, great. But if they get their opinions from Janis what's her name?, pity their patients.
You are probably not old enough, but do you remember the Gong Show? Chuck Barry would bang the he!! out of the gong. It sounds like your WH needs his gong rung. He is living in an unreal world. Sounds like he has convinced the MC of his own leanings and you are battling two folks now.
Always think positive. You'll be fine. Can you continue on in the radiation? I'm not sure how that all works, but I thought there was some type of treatment that you could only do for so long...it may be chemo.
stef,
I honestly do not know if I can receive more radiation or not. When I was first diagnosed, I thought I would want to be like a sponge and soak up all the information I could about my tumor. I had the "luxury" of having to lay in the hospital bed for another three or four days because of complications so I had plenty of time to contemplate things. I had asked my doc a few questions and his candor sorta made me shift around. Those guys are used to delivering bad news. So, I made the decision laying in bed to not get too educated about things. It is no small part of my positve attitude. I think too many people get hung up on unnecessary details. I only ask what I consider to be relevant questions and stop at that, so I don't have all the answers.
With chemo, I am aware that there is a phenomenon called the "blood brain barrier". This means it is difficult to get chemo to the brain. There are methods that accomplish it but I don't know if it would work in my case or not. I will not do chemo and let the doctors know early on. Candidly, if the radiation is not effective, I am into experimental therapies like gene therapy, etc.
My agreement with Pio expired the 1st week of October I believe!!! I am coordinating finances and would benefit more if WH gave me $ for bills that he would be spending on apartment and stayed here. We haven't had that conversation in so many words but with me piecing together the bits I get, I believe that is plan for now. It is difficult to have a plan together since he won't really discuss it.
I have my own plan and will stick to it. Thanks for the support though. Yep, Remy Martin is definitely part of the plan!
Honestly 2much, it sounds like you need to educate your MC. Alernate forms of communicating? How about alternatives to infidelity? Sadly, half of all MC's graduate in the bottom half of their class. Most are not skilled in MC since most do general therapy. Most get their opinions from popular books. Don't believe it? Read the reviews at Amazon. Amazing how many MC's get their opinions from writers. If they get their opinions from Harley, Pittman or Glass, great. But if they get their opinions from Janis what's her name?, pity their patients.
Don't worry Todd...I laughed at him. We quit seeing MC after 2cnd session when WH declared midsession he wanted D and walked out. Honestly the MC didn't know what to do with WH...he shrugged and put his hands in the air and told me I needed to face reality and prepare for divorce...I let everything go in one ear and out the other...I already had my plan in full swing and didn't change anything based on MC...it was basically a waste since WH had no intention of changing behavior at the time
Me, a libertarian Todd? Could be I have leanings in that direction but because I don't like to discuss that stuff...I don't. Stuff is a "forbidden" word in my sons' language arts class. I don't think I could survive with out it
So, you'll be having the final, final talk with WW this weekend. Best of luck with that. I hope it goes quickly & painlessly. Not possible but I hope for you it does.
I don't know how to cut & paste on this forum. Can anybody help me with that. Please be specific, computer stuff is not one of my strengths.
I'm probably off for the night but I'll be back in the am. Couldn't keep me away. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Morning everyone - I don't have much time today - it's saturday and My Wife and I are going to take a little ferry ride and get fish and chips to eat by the water. A date for the Kahunas. Yay.
not to worry BK, I seriously didn't pay him any mind
the only negative was that WH felt that MC agreed with him on me needing to alter approach...I specifically discussed this with WH and put it back on him asking him to identify a preferred form of communication...of course as you may have guessed...no preference was stated...SURPRISE!!!!
Well yesterday morning I told WW that I felt she might not be ready yet but that at some point we needed to discuss what is going on. I told her I am not really sure why she came back. I knew she missed the DDs but that I was not interested in a sham marriage and felt I could do much better with my life than that. I told her at the vey least we needed some ground rules. I had no idea if she was continuing with her affair or not - phone calls, letters, emails, etc. but that I wanted to be very clear that I would not permit any more adultery in my house.
I told her that I wanted to discuss her expectations. Too much has happened to just pretend that all is good and that there was never any affair. I said that I have not been happy for a long time and I am not happy that she is back. I also said that I ask myself why we are still married.
No DJ's, no real LB's. Then I left. Other than being nice to me, she hasn't said anything. I didn't expect her to nor did I want her to.
I just wanted to clarify - when I said I didn't understand why we were still married, I didn't say it in a mean way. It was more like a question of logic - two people who aren't happy with each other - what is the point of being married? That is the way I said it and I think it is the way it was understood.
I'm concerned that she "may" be there for her own selfish reasons. How do you think it would look in a custody case that she had affair with poolboy and then left her 2 daughters half way across the world so she could collect her thoughts? We all know you never leave the house first if you entertain any thoughts of custody. You are also in Saudi, not a very woman or custody friendly country. I don't know if any of their rules would apply to you, but it really does not make her look like a very fit mother. To top things off, you took excellant care of the kiddos while she was off to Mexico.
I would hope for some grovelling or I'd be very suspicous.
I would hope for some grovelling or I'd be very suspicous.
Shattered05,
I think a better way to put that is "if I don't see any remorse, I will be very suspicious". I don't have any hope for anything. I have zero expectations at the moment so I won't get any disappointments. Six weeks of "vacation" was not a Plan B and she knew she would be able to come back. I am a little surprised that she expects to come back and just pretend nothing ever happened. For whatever reason, her presence here hurts me rather than helps me. It is painful to have her in my bed. I am still very disconnected. I am ashamed to say this but she could leave tomorrow and I would never miss her. We have had SF once and I did not enjoy it at all. She has a muscle spasm in her back for the past few days so can barely move. We took her to the doctor yesterday so she is on medication that helps.
It was interesting to hear her describe life at her sister's. They are on an extreme austerity plan. No AC, almost no lights in the house, conserving gasoline, etc. I can't imagine subjecting my DDs to that. I do think gemela is back here because it is the best deal on the table from her POV. Even she knows pool boy is no guarantee.
BTW, I am suspicious. I don't trust her one bit. She has given me no reason to believe that anything is any different. The only thing that has changed is that I don't care any more. She can cheat all she wants and it can't hurt me. It will get her a one-way ticket out (alone) but I will feel relief rather than pain. She has done her worst.
At this point, I just think she does not want to be the one who breaks up the family. She wants me to do it. That's the way I read things.
Do I sound negative? Maybe. I don't really feel much anger though. Yesterday she was working in the kitchen on Halloween decorations and the DDs were drawing bats and I was fixing some broken decorations. DD1 got a call from a friend who wanted them to go play so I took them. When I got back, I went upstairs and took a nap. I didn't want to talk to WW and preferred to be alone. All the way over to friend's house and back, I just felt sad. It doesn't help that I have to drive by their "love shack" on the way.
LSS (long story short), I think I am really screwed up. I'm going to try for IC. There is one American (male) doctor who is supposed to be good. Getting to see him is difficult but I will try.
In the meantime, I am on my best husbandly behavior. You know? I really wish I had studied husbandry in school when I had the chance to take elective courses.
On a positive note, I did get the spare tire mounted on the golf cart yesterday and (pardon me larousse) it really is chingón. I need to upload a photo. I also got me a mosquito fogger (propane driven) and I just can't wait to use it. I got the garage all arranged, I mitered a few things. Except for the fact that WW is here, I had a pretty good weekend.
You have been so upbeat and happy while she's been away. You were a completely different person. This really annoys me. Or should I say she really p's me off.
I'm with Steph, I don't think you needed to study husbandry, I think she needed to study wifery.
Lighten up people - it was a joke. Husbandry is the science of "breeding". You people are waaay too serious for your own good. Husbandry doesn't deal too much with "relationship" issues.
My bil teaches agriculture. He says that the term 'scr3w' comes from the rotational action of the (what do you call a male pig - a boar?) 'projection' of the male pig/boar.....whatever......
My H is a lawyer and is well versed in the art of silence and argument, it does not an easy life make.
While I was busy trying to fulfill his emotional needs under a false NC, he was under the impression that I was appeased and sweeping problems under the carpet. He thoroughly enjoyed the false harmony. Because I did not act upset he assumed I was not upset.
For some reason I am reminded of my young son. He had been misbehaving and had been sent to his room until dinner time. Ten minutes later he came out, threw his arms around me, told me he loved me and gave me his endearing smile that can melt hearts. He was fully expecting for all to be forgiven and the grounding to be over and for playtime to begin again. When I said "thank you, I love you too, now back to your room." he was totally shocked and dumbfounded and the smile soon disappeared.
I agree with Kiwi, I want the old Pio back. I wish you weren't so sad. Todd was sad earlier too. What's the deal? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
WH called me about an hour ago and spent the next 40 minutes on the phone with me for NOTHING!! He called me for no apparent reason!
He started flirting with me and then told me about a problem he was having and I helped him decide how to fix it and we flirted some more and got off the phone.
This makes me mad because it's CONFUSING...I know what's going on but I can't stand it!!! Have I mentioned I'm impatient?? I want him to realize that he still wants me and get over the A already.
I know, I know, it's not going to happen yet, I'm just frustrated because I know what we both want, but he's too...whatever...to admit to it.
But then, I'm kind of glad he called me. It means he didn't call OW and he would have rather talked to me than her and he was thinking about me.
Me too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I don't like her making you sad/mad/indifferent. It's not the same around here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Steph, once he gets his head out of his a** he will be back.
I mean, really, a 35 year old woman with an 8 year old child when he has you.
Just keep being patient, seriously.
I agree. I'm a much better option, hands down. He'll never find someone better than me!
I just know what he wants and I'm frustrated that he won't admit to it yet. But I understand that he's still in the A and won't admit to anything yet, but it's still frustrating.
I'm learning patience...correction...I'm trying to learn patience.
I will keep listening to BigK, even when he tells me off, I know I need it sometimes. I tend to be a bit of a hard-head which probably makes me stupid at times and I deserve to be yelled at.
I only get one chance at a second chance in my M, so I'm going to do the best I can.
Stef - You are seriously doing great. Sigh. You get GREAT stuff from your husband and you still aren't happy. Patience and consistency Stef. This seriously is very good you know.
Settle down children. On one of those other threads I am getting my [censored] kicked by a guy because I keep pressing his buttons. Man am I ever hitting a nerve. LOL
I even gave him instructions for how to ignore me.
Pio - Gemela has made you more unhappy being back than I have seen you for months.
She needs to poop or get off the pot. I hate what this is doing to you Pio. Sucks being your daughters in this situation too. If she doesn't want this marriage get her out. If she does want it she needs to start acting like it.
This makes me very mad. It's not like d-day was last week.
Stef - You are seriously doing great. Sigh. You get GREAT stuff from your husband and you still aren't happy. Patience and consistency Stef. This seriously is very good you know.
But's it's NOT great stuff until he's ready to come home and be done with the A. He told me today that I'm lucky he still sorta likes me. He was kidding, but still.
What is seriously very good?
I got his cell phone records from Sept 5 to Oct 4. During that month, he talked to OW for 4 hours and 33 minutes. Which sucks, but it's better than previous months. But it still hurt like h***. I didn't think it would. I guess it just refreshed everything and made it real. In some way, with him not living here, I don't really have to acknowledge that the A is real. When it's in black and white, I do.
Settle down children. On one of those other threads I am getting my [censored] kicked by a guy because I keep pressing his buttons. Man am I ever hitting a nerve. LOL
I even gave him instructions for how to ignore me.
I read that...it was great!!
It's even better because it's not directed towards me for once...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
WH called me about an hour ago and spent the next 40 minutes on the phone with me for NOTHING!! He called me for no apparent reason!
Now I'm getting mad! LOL - Where is the downside here? He can't help himself Stef. He is conflicted. He wants to spend time with you for absolutely no reason.
Quote
He started flirting with me and then told me about a problem he was having and I helped him decide how to fix it and we flirted some more and got off the phone.
You can't even see how you are filling his Love Bank can you?
Quote
This makes me mad because it's CONFUSING...I know what's going on but I can't stand it!!! Have I mentioned I'm impatient?? I want him to realize that he still wants me and get over the A already.
Your impatience will be the death of you Stef - when you are impatient, you do stuff like blow up at him or have SF with him. Stef - he will come back. Make him LONG for you. Be the lighthouse. DO that great Plan A stuff you have been doing. You are making yourself very attractive to him. Can you not see that?
Now I'm getting mad! LOL - Where is the downside here? He can't help himself Stef. He is conflicted. He wants to spend time with you for absolutely no reason.
I know that, that's why it's frustrating. I don't know what the downside is, it just irritates me.
Quote
You can't even see how you are filling his Love Bank can you?
I will admit, no.
Quote
Your impatience will be the death of you Stef - when you are impatient, you do stuff like blow up at him or have SF with him. Stef - he will come back. Make him LONG for you. Be the lighthouse. DO that great Plan A stuff you have been doing. You are making yourself very attractive to him. Can you not see that?
No, I can't see it yet. Not really. Maybe a little. I don't get impatient with him and I don't pick arguments or anything like that at all. I have no reason to blow up at him. I'm not really impatient when I'm with him, it's when I'm not with him that I get like this. You guys get the brunt of it, not WH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm totally, 100% in Plan A when we're together.
Stef - you are meeting his EN's - conversation, admiration etc. He is only bothering with you because you meet some of his needs. He still loves you. You are doing a great Plan A IMO - that builds up the love bank balance.
Stef - you are meeting his EN's - conversation, admiration etc. He is only bothering with you because you meet some of his needs. He still loves you. You are doing a great Plan A IMO - that builds up the love bank balance.
And here you are switching up on me again! A girl can't keep track of you!
I know he still loves me. All I'm saying is that's why this is so frustrating. I know he still loves me, he knows he still loves me, but he's not ready to give up the A. I understand that, but it doesn't make it any easier. It all goes back to my impatience, which is something I need to work on.
Todd, as far as I can see BigK is fine. He's just helping Steph.
Hey, I found some lyrics today (someone's got to put them here if you don't) that made me think of you Todd. They write a lot of songs about Georgia don't they?
"Georgia, Georgia, the whole day through Just an old sweet song Keeps Georgia on my mind
Talkin' 'bout Georgia I'm in Georgia A song of you Comes as sweet and clear as moonlight through the pines
Other arms reach out to me Other eyes smile tenderly Still in peaceful dreams I see The road leads back to you
Georgia, sweet Georgia, no peace I find Just an old sweet song Keeps Georgia on my mind
Other arms reach out to me Other eyes smile tenderly Still in peaceful dreams I see The road leads back It always leads back to you"
That thread is a loser. It clearly demonstrates why BS and WS should not cross post on the same thread. Everyone else has always been discouraged from doing it yet these two persist. If each would get their own thread, I could see much benefit to all. It isn't always what you post. People who come here are generally not very emotionally stable. One wrong word can have a huge impact even if it was not the intent. Things are often taken out of context. But just to be safe and since you are clearly a troublemaker, I have not put you on my ignore list just to be safe.
BTW, Yes I am not happy and yes it is true that I also have no bananas today. If you don't mind, I really don't want to spend a lot of time talking about my lack of communication with gemela at the moment. I think I need to be patient and give this some time and just plan on being unhappy for a while. If I discuss it a lot, I will lose patience and will likely try to force the issue. That time will necessarily come but I don't think it is today.
I need to go back into pain-endurance mode for just a bit. Please try and understand. We all knew she was not in Plan B and she did not come back with a change in heart. Let's not rewrite history and pretend she did. I am working out again. I have a little more time for that so I am happy about that. I can lift heavier (anger?) thinking about my sitch and my unhappiness so that is a positive.
I am just being me. I am not worrying too much about gemela. I am not generally planning my activities around hers. I help her where I can and definitely when she needs it (heavy/hard/high stuff).
We are just nowhere near recovery plain and simple.
That's cool Pio - but keep posting here because it's cathartic for you and good for all of us. I just wanted you to know we have seen a change in you since G came back and Kiwi noticed it too. I guess we are all concerned for YOU first and then your marriage if that makes sense. Thanks for not ignoring me - I would be getting quite a complex!!
Troublemaker? You would have many more posters in your ignore list. And I thought not having a vowell was enough. I'm touched you have created a whole new category for me.
I am on the phone with my son. Cannot concentrate too well to post much. Later.
Is that DS3? Just remember to decide what you want. Don't let someone else, no matter who that is, decide it for you. Nobody should have to put up with what you do. You don't owe anybody anything.
Ignoring Turkish protests, the French lower house of parliament overwhelmingly approved a bill on Thursday making it a crime to deny Armenians suffered genocide in 1915 at the hands of the Ottoman Turks.........The legislation establishes a one-year prison term and 45,000 euro ($56,570) fine for anyone denying the genocide....
I think poolboy is a non-issue. That's all he is and all he'll ever be - poolboy. She lusted after him, did him, and now he is done. He is not even in the ballpark with you.
The way you feel is perfectly normal. "False recovery" may be a koolaid phrase but everyone can agree that it sucks and is very painful. If she is not there with bells on to earn your respect back, IMVHO, she should not be there or her mere presence will be he11 on you - as it is. Do not let her use you for a convenient and very comfortable meal ticket.
I hope you get that IC. You need two plans: one for the two of you if you decide to continue with the marriage and one for how you two are going to live two seperate lives with the girls. Please don't wing this as it comes. Are there any attorneys you can talk with so at least you are prepared if it goes that way? What country would Gamela live in if you divorced? Would you stay in Saudi? What about the girls?
I am up to date...just been lurking...I guess I have been mentally preparing myself for my trip back home...
It will be the first time in 20 yrs that it will not be done as a family...in my new status of a separated spouse... doing literally the long drive by myself... much more pleasant and less exhausting when shared..I am glad though that the boys are coming with me! ...creating new history! ...and unfortunately...at the other end there is my dad...who is recuperating from an operation and who will start a six-month treatment this very week or in the next few weeks (waiting for wound to heal)...
I do expect it to be a physically, emotionally and psychologically draining trip... and I do know that when I expect the worse it never really is THAT BAD!
I know that I will be OK... after having had to face so many challenges this past year...
...but still...not looking forward to the 'rollercoaster' ride....I guess I have had enough of it this past year to last me awhile...
Anyway...just thought you should all know that you are all taking the trip with me... as you are all in my heart...and I will be thinking of you all!
Take care. I will be back in three days.
Let these me my last words:
I feel lucky to know you all... and am proud to be part of a group who tries to face the adversities of life...with integrity!
I would plan to remain in Saudi. She says that if we divorce, she is going to do her best to get me fired from here so I can't live in Saudi. So she is threatening me. I asked how she would do that. Would she have more affairs and create a scandal? Would she have car accidents (I'm held responsible for her tickets and accidents)? She is just threatening. I have told her I am unhappy now that she is back and I was happier with her gone. I told her that she can stay through Christmas and then we should separate permanently. She says she won't go. She says she decided to try to work on the M. I said that was typical. She decides what she wants to do and I have no say. She decides to have an A and does it. She decides she wants to go to Mexico and does it. She decides she wants to come back and does it. I have a choice too. My choice is divorce. She doesn't make me happy and continues to blame me for her affair. I want to get on with my life and move forward and do it without her. I refuse to let her hurt me again. I would rather be alone.
I told her she can blame me for breaking up the family. I will never tell the DDs she had anything to do with it - it was my choice and my fault. She can go without a guilty conscience - she just needs to go. I told her I'm tired of all this and I am tired of her. I tried for a year with no help from her and now I am done.
She says she has been wanting to talk to me but has been waiting for the right time. Right. I told her we will pretend to be all happy and smile until after Christmas and then she has to go. Period. We do need to agree on visitation. Living in separate countries makes joint custody an impossibility. No lawyer would ever attempt it. I'm not giving up the DDs.
Me, a libertarian Todd? Could be I have leanings in that direction but because I don't like to discuss that stuff...I don't. Stuff is a "forbidden" word in my sons' language arts class. I don't think I could survive with out it
Funny story about "stuff". When I was promoted/transferred to Boston, the whole family went up one July. It was raining and 46 degrees F in the People's Republic so we sat in the hotel room watching television. There was some show in which a teen age girl was being interviewed. She was asked to tell a little of herself. She said blah blah blah, and I live with my Mom and stuff. Immediately, I said, who is stuff, their dog?
Well, a few years later, we got a dog. Guess what we named him? Stuff. The kids remembered the comment and said let's name him Stuff. Different but true.
Just caught up with all the posts from tonight. It was heavy traffic - guess it was peak hour.
It didn't sound like it was a pleasant phone call for you.
Are you okay?
Hi Beth,
Yes, I am fine. DS3 is a persistent thing and he wanted to discuss WW but I shut it down until after WW and I meet and talk on Sunday. Our main agenda was to discuss a web business we are trying to start. Millions of ideas; just trying to figure out the best one.
Hi Todd, I'm so glad you saw the "boy" playing the guitar. For those who haven't seen go to pg 480 & you'll see the link on one of my posts towards the middle of the page. Each time I see it I'm amazed & the music makes me smile. I hope it does for all here too.
Todd, I posted that hoping it would help you get through what is bound to be a difficult time with your WW this weekend. I'll be sending you my best thoughts & hopes.
Of course you know we'll be waiting right here for you when you're feeling ready to discuss it all.
I've been up & running today doing kid stuff & have to go do more but I'll be back later. I definately want to read what's up with everyone, especially you Pio. I particularly liked the question you asked yourself & G; what are you doing in a M neither one of you is happy in. I remember ex asking why I wanted our M & why I loved him & my answers weren't satisfactory for either of us.
Anyway, enjoy this lovely fall day for those in New England. For those elsewhere enjoy your day too.
Pio, you should patent the idea of the spare tire. Man you have too much time on your hands. I think you should set time aside to talk to G away from interruptions. Write down what you want to talk about with her and reflect about the best way you want to do it. I don't think she sees you as a meal ticket but what do I know.
Todd, I think Mr. Wondering or someone else, lol, had a quick guide for interntet business.
Thanks for that link. My son has been trying to emulate him all morning. I love the boys being involved in music and try to keep them all as busy as possible. Between sports, clubs, music, surfing and school hopefully there will not be too much spare time to find trouble.
How many children do you have ? I think I recall you have 3 boys as well, what ages are they? Are they a great support to you? How did they react to the separation?
If you don't want to talk about it, then don't worry as I will fully understand. My youngest boy still hates me even going to the doctors. My illness was a painful time for my children.
I am heading out for the day but will check back in later.
How many children do you have ? I think I recall you have 3 boys as well, what ages are they? Are they a great support to you? How did they react to the separation?
I have three sons, 23, 27 and 35. They are all fantastic support. They take turns taking me to the doctors, for tests and to get medicine/food. And out to lunch/dinner. They are what keeps me going on my bad days.
The oldest has disowned his Mom and does not want me to take her back. The youngest wants us to get back no matter what. The middle son is somewhere in between. DS3 is the only one who talks to her at this point. They are all angry at what she did. WW messed up a great family.
Quote
My youngest boy still hates me even going to the doctors. My illness was a painful time for my children.
I completely understand. The only really tough part of this has been the worry and pain my sons feel because of me. I absolutely hate what I have put them through.
Interesting Beth that you keep your boys time completely occupied. While I like mine to be involved in something I want them to have free time in which they have to find ways to occupy themselves. I think it helps them to become creative thinkers because they have to find something to do rather than have their time organized for them. But keeping them occupied to keep them out of trouble does make a lot of sense.
My youngest son had the hardest time with the D but he's also the one who asked me when I was going to date & "get" a boyfriend, as if I could just go pick on out from the boyfriend store. Not that that has anything to do with illness affecting children, just came to mind.
Kiwi, as much as I like spring fall is my favorite (farourite <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> for you) time of year. I love the chill & the need to keep warm rather than cool down. I guess it's loving to be cozy.
My middle son took a cooking class today. A chef in training from Johnson & Whales came to a friend's cooking school, she just opened a cooking school for kids. He made a salmon dish with salsa, mashed potatoes & a chocolate cake made with law fat sour cream. Wonderful! Now he can take over one dinner a week. Never happen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Hi larousse, if you're going to teach me you'll have to be VERY specific. I tend to not know computer terminology speak as you would to a young, dull child.
All I know is the buttons I have on my keyboard don't cut & paste here like they do elsewhere.
You highlight a text with your left boton and with the right you choose, copy, and you paste it where you wanted. Sorry if you have done that and it doesn't work I don't know what could be wrong.
You can't cut and past the same way as if it were word? I can.
So can I. .
Depress your mouse button and drag it over the text you wish to copy. It should highlight it. Then click again to get the drop down menu (or depress Control + C keys on your keyboard. Then move your cursor to where you wish to paste the text and click there. Or something like that. It works like copy & past in Word.
If I want to cut & paste something from the same page i can use the buttons on my keyboard. if I try to take from another page they don't work & neither does cinder's method. Hi cinder!
You may want to download the driver (the program that runs your mouse). Sometimes some files of a program get lost or damaged in the computer and the hardware of software doesn't work properly.
fagetaboutit. I used the link & went to gateway but they wouldn't recognize my serial number. This is exactly the type of thing that infuriates me about computers.
From my view the bottons for cut & patse are provided on my keyboard & should work the same way everywhere I want to cut & paste, call me a dreamer. I don't have the patience to search to make this work. I'll ask olsest son when he comes back from his friends house tomorrow,
I painted, the ceiling of my room all morning. I went risky, daring: For the first time I used other color than white white. I painted a white circle around the lamp, then baby blue, then a white ribbon of 15 cms all around. It almost looks good. Now when I lay in bed I want to imagine the sky like in Vainilla sky, lol.
Right now I take a coffee, Chiapa's mointains coffee, best ever, no quimically enhaced.
You drink coffee at night & can still sleep? Not me.
Two of my boys & I will be leaving soon to visit friends, & pick up a bottle of red wine probably a Shiraz or Chianti. Then we'll watch more X-Files while I have my one glass of wine for the evening. Exciting? No, but then again I don't have a boyfriend to help with an exciting evening. Got any brothers larousse, in the 47ish to 58ish age bracket. Oh yeah, do they live in Connecticut?
I have three brothers, one 46, the more handsome actually, he and I are the two brownies of the siblings, the pretiest if I may say so. Hahahaha.
We are three women and three men, I'm the 5th. My older brother is divorced. All the others married. I'm the black sheep or the lost sheep. Lol. Ouch that used to be funny, now it's painful.
Have a great night Nam. You are so blessed with your sons.
If you ever come across with Mexican wine from the brands, Domecq, Santo Tomas or Monte Xanic, give it a try.
Baja California had miners from France at the end of the XIX and begining of XX centuries. They had vineries. When the big filoxilia hit Europe, some of the grapes that recovered the 'grappes types' came from Baja California. They came from all America, I mean, Argentina, Chile... Mexico and I guess California too.
Baja California gave Tempranillo, a very nice wine, not to young not too old, not to fruty either. Domecq has a mix of Merlot and Cabernet, like a Borgoña. It's a dream, you can feel both bouquets on your mouth like in waves. That Domecq is called Chatau I think and here you can get it for 200 pesos, like 20 dls.
Baja California has an important area of vineries called Valle de Guadalupe, like two hours to the South of Tijuana, towards the desert.
Yes, I'm blessed with my boys. They have their moments, like any kids do but they are all sweet, kind & with good hearts.
Gee, a brother 46, a litle on the young side but, hey, if he's local we might as well met for a coffee. I'll take a guess that your "pretty" (doubt he'd want to be called that BTW) brother lives in Mexico.
I'll write down your wine suggestions, I'm always looking for something interesting though I do tend to be cheap. I really like Spanish wines, Rioja in particular. Lan is one of my favorites. There are a few good tempranillos also but I'm not nearly as familiar with names & types as you are.
So, your BF is having some difficulties at the moment? Is it the dear? Did they start eating his pets?
Kiwi, the man up my sleeve was the same man who didn't want to marry again. After our date I emailed him to thank him for the nice time etc., he emailed back saying he had a "great" time. He left for Italy a few days later & is certainly back by now but I haven't heard from him. It's probably for the best that we don't get involed, even if he were so inclined, but it appears he's not.
Right now I'm not motivated to go on match.com & look. I don't really know why. My time is up soon so I'll just ride it out then take a break from online dating. I've had many dates but nobody I'd want to keep seeing. Some I would have had a second date with just to see if there was any interest, some I did have second dates with but we weren't a good fit.
I've been contacted by a couple guys recently but I'm not interested.
It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with you. Your reactions to your WW & your indifference seem appropriate. While it can't hurt too much (unless you get a quack) to see an IC it doesn't sound like your reactions are out of the norm. It sounds like you've accurately summed up the situation.
I can see why it might bother your to feel indifferent but isn't that what happens when your LB is empty? Your WW hasn't exactly provided motivation for you to do any more work on behalf of the M.
To threaten you on top of that is likely fear talking on her part.
Sticking it out until Christmas? Wow, I can't imagine how you'll last that long. Once we'd told our boys we were Ding, by far the hardest part of the whole mess & what I considered the emotional bottom, I couldn't wait to be away from ex. There was immediate relief when he left.
BF says deers are mobing him. They cross in front of him on the road and stare at him. Lol. They are angry about the lack of corn in his yard, they were so happy to had found a corn source. Oh well, it's Nams and Pio's fault.
His Jeep car cloutch broke, it had to be towed. Then the mechanic told him the car needed new brakes. Then one tire of the rental car lost air. So he's a little irritated right now.
Nams, I wouldn't introduce you to my brother, he can be quite charming but he's a womaniser. His teen years were a revolving door of new girlfriends. I was good friend with some of them.
The most comic situations have happened when his ex wife would said in front of us, the family, that he had such a good heart. We would told her that she didn't know him. Even after he had left her without child support for four kids she would defend him. Oh well.
Yeah, a womanizer doesn't hold any appeal for me. That coupled with the fact he left his wife without child support...well...no amount of charm can make up for that.
I have been thinking, I know I shouldn't, I know. I was wrong. When you said you needed G help to overcome the affair I told you it was something inside you what was going to help you to get over it.
I was wrong. After listening the MB radio program and reading some more I think I understood what you meant. No matter how hard you work on yourself if she doesn't implement protective mesures as the Radical Honesty and doesn't show remorse and consciusnees about the severity of what she did, you can't move to the recovery phase. That's why Dr. Harley speaks of a 'compensation' from the XWW or XWS to help the BS to heal from the affair wounds.
I think it's a big step that you consider IC.
I have the impression that you need to tell G what do you need from her, precisely. Remorse, honesty, accountability, emotional openess, apreciation for your domestic support like trimming the garden, consideration to your time together as a couple...
That was my idea. It's already October so she would be here for the holidays. Last night I told her I was really upset about her comment of getting me fired. I told her she was pure evil. I asked what it would take me to be rid of her forever. She says she doesn't want to go. I asked her why I don't get a choice. She insists on getting everything she wants. She is the most selfish person I have ever known. My only crime was loving her with all my heart and it wasn't enough. I told her she doesn't make me happy. Nothing she does makes me happy. People shouldn't have to live like this. She says she wants a chance to prove herself.
Actually I told her that nobody had ever hurt me like she had and I wanted to protect myself so that nobody ever would again. I told her I did not trust her and she finds it far too easy to lie. She is incapable of telling the truth and I can't live with someone like that. I reiterated that it was the lies that were so devastating. Did I mention that I told her I hated her?
ex said to me at one point before he decided to give it a year for him to fall back in love with me, also known as fake recovery or the Who is My Soul Mate game, that he'd thought of driving his car into a tree, that it would make the whole thing less painfull. I said yeah, you're right it would. I meant it too.
Of course you hate G. She has done the worst thing a person who swore to love you can. On top of that she has shown no remorse, shows no indication she cares to work on the marriage, no effort to understand the devestation she's caused, etc. What's to love?
Pio when you told her the lies were the most devestating did G show any signs of understanding that?
I remember ex would look at me with the blankest of expressions when I'd say things like that. Made me want to punch him in the face. I told him that & he still looked at me blankly.
I guess not only it doesn't bother me but somehow I'm used to men older than me. It troubled me a little in the past to be 'wired' that way but the more I got to develope a job of my own the more secure I feel with myself.
So, maybe in the past, in my first relatiionship, it was a misture of love, admiration and need of a father figure.
Now, I think I have more clear that my partner is not my father and at the same time I recognise in me the need to feel 'protected' even if it really doesn't happen in the reality of the relationship.
It's not something I look for, lol, specifically in a man. I have friends my own age.
Dr. Harley has a list of five things that somehow show the success prognosis of a marriage. I just remember two, Same values and same cultural background but age is not included.
I can understand the attraction of an older man. After being with ex who is 5 years younger than I am I'm more likely to look for an older man too. Unless it's clear a younger man, & I mean like a year or two younger no more, is sufficiently mature & a MLC is not in the offing I'd prefer an older man.
His teen years were a revolving door of new girlfriends...
And the problem with this is.....?
BTW, just back from dinner with DS1. Very interesting. He is outside on cell talking to XFGF now. She keeps calling and begging him back. I have to bite my tongue. Anyway, DS1 is spending the night. I will write a post to tell everyone what he said at dinner. Very interesting.
Nam, Same cultural background means same cultural references. Dr. Harley expressed it very well and I can't remember his exact words but he said the more different the background the harder they would have to work at comunicate themselves.
He put the typical example of people from different religions or too radical different lifestyles. He put also the example of Asian-Occidental. Different social classes.
I just remember, he just published a new book called 'I promise you' and I think he writes about those values extensively in it.
I'll have to check that out. I had many of his books & gave them to my niece when she was having difficulty in her M. I'm sure she never even looked at them. I'll have to ask for them back, but to be honest they will have such bad feelings associated with them I just don't know if I can get past that.
I guess if I look at them in the context of what would be beneficial to know for any future relationship I could do it.
larousse, I know it's not fair to judge others by the actions of ex but I see younger men, even just a couple of years younger, & I think about some of the traits ex had & wonder if they have them too.
How much was his age? How much was ex & his specific circumstances? It's likely much more of his stuff was due to his FOO, his lack of emotional maturity, lack of abilility to be emotionally initmate, personality, etc. Still...I generalize, not fair.
I actually had a man contact me recently who was 42 & I jsut couldn't consider him seriously. He was kinda sweet though when he said he was about to turn 43 & did that make a difference. Hey, maybe I'm just not ready to date! Gawd, that would be a depressing thought.
DS1 picked me up a few hours ago and we went to dinner. We went Italian and it was great. I had Red Snapper Francese and DS1 had Cioppino. Recall that DS1 is diametrically opposed to the position of DS3. DS2 is somewhere in between the two. He started by saying that DS3 told him that WW and I were meeting for dinner tomorrow night and that we were going to talk. Apparently, WW called DS3 and put the spin she wanted on the sitch. Fine. DS1 reminded me that WW still has shown no remorse, no guilt and in fact, was currently still denying the affair to everyone who will listen. He told me that WW had lectured DS3 about “unconditional love”. IOW, if I really loved her, I would not let her affair get in the way of my love for her. But, she quickly added that she had no affair but recognized that I thought she had. WW went on to tell DS3 that she will never forgive me for exposure. I asked DS1 how did DS3 respond to her statement. He said he didn’t know and that DS3 probably said nothing because he is doing his best to not take sides.
I took that as an opportunity to remind DS1 that I do not want any DS taking sides with either of us. He reminded me that he is not taking sides per se, but resents what his Mom did and especially the fact that she cannot face what she has done. He said: Dad, here is a perfect example. Mom talks about unconditional love that you should have regardless of her affair, but she doesn’t believe in unconditional love with regards to your exposing her A. That is exactly what I am talking about. She is lost in her own pretzel logic. And you know she is drinking a lot right Dad? She calls DS3 when she gets drunk and cries in his ear.
Okay, that pissed me off. DS3 is 23, just got married and doesn’t need this [censored] from his Mom. DS1 added: Dad she keeps telling DS3 how unhappy she was with you and that’s why she could have had an affair but again, denies that she did. Were you unhappy with the marriage and with Mom before her affair? I have never expressed to any of my sons unhappiness that I may have felt with WW at any time. First, I don’t want any of my troubles to be a burden to them and secondly, it is simply unfair to lay that on them. This reminded me that WW had told DS’s for years how unhappy she was with me and told them she wanted to D me. Her doing this coincided with her A and it is obvious that what she was doing was seeking tacit and undisclosed approval of her A from sons. Not in so many words, but you get the idea hopefully.
My approach in our marriage has always been to love my wife with all my heart and soul and to work through any problems that may have arisen. But I was committed to her and to my marriage. I never imagined divorcing her or having an affair. When the realization of an affair first hits you, you try to hold on to what is already lost. I never considered whether I had been happy or what my chances were of being happy. Tonight, I have thought about my happiness, or lack thereof, a great deal. I now realize and accept that I was and am so unhappy about so many things in my marriage. I had put them aside because I knew that WW had lost her Mom, DS3 went off to college, she went through a MLC and then hit menopause. You just flex when your spouse hits those low and challenging points in their lives. I put my own happiness aside because I truly understood what she was going through.
My number one complaint is her drinking. It pervades so many parts and caused so many problems in our marriage. Another is our inability to have a calm, productive discussion. I am a calm, if intense, person and am very respectful in conversations. I wait for the other person to speak and when they finish, I say my piece. Not WW. She was raised in a large family that frankly is very rude and inconsiderate. And loud. I typically will get a few words out, and WW will interrupt and start raising her voice if not outright screaming. I then have two choices: scream over her or shut down. Her talking on the phone has been another issue for me. It probably sounds trite but you have no idea how much and long she can talk on the phone. Her cell bill every month is $400. Another area of unhappiness for me for the last few years was our SF life. I know that her SF drive naturally diminished when she hit menopause and I simply accepted it. Little did I know that she was being “serviced” somewhere else and that was also part of the problem. Honestly, we don’t have much in common anymore. I love to hike and camp in the mountains; she hates the mountains. I love classic rock, old R&B and classical; she loves anything she can dance to. She loves to dance and is an excellent dancer. I play the guitar. I read and think a lot and love politics. And of course math and science, etc. She loves gossip whether celebrity or family. I hate gossip. Okay, not hate, but don’t love it. I am a planner; she likes to “take her chances” on vacation reservations and the like. We went to Las Vegas years ago. We were standing in line to check in and I was talking to her and she had disappeared. There she was donating as much money as she could stuff into a one-armed bandit. She “spent” over $2,000 in just a few days. I got $10 worth of quarters and quit as soon as they were gone. I could go on but you get the idea.
So, it will be interesting tomorrow. I have a lot of thinking to do. At his point, I am not even sure if I am going to tell her I want things to work out. We’ll see. I guess a lot depends on her. We’ll see how much “unconditional love” she has.
OK, larousse, time to get in bed & read. I enjoyed talking with you. I'll be back in the a.m. to get the scoop from Todd & Pio if Pio's computer monitor isn't working overtime.
I was just getting ready to sign off when I saw your post.
Wow Todd! You've done a lot of thinking about...you...what you need & want & that's just as it should be. You have gone through many of the things infidelity brings into the relationship. You've tried your best but without a willing partner there's a point where you hit the wall. Sounds like you're there.
Given the fact your WW seems to not show remorse, understanding of the devestation, what you need to desire the M (feels like I just wrote this to Pio) you're now at a point to care for yourself. Gawd, it sounds so healthy!
Isn't it interesting that people say they will divorce "when the children are old enough." I've said it before and I'll say it again, it doesn't matter how old the children are.
you had quite a conversation with your son. I understand the part where you don't want to burden them with your marital troubles but at the same time I guess they may have the need to express their feelings and fears.
Your love bank could be restored to black numbers, meaning you could fall in love all over again with her if she would become honest and if she fullfil your emotional needs.
Look! I copied text! Not cut & paste but at least something worked.
Interesting question larousse. ex is a very quite man, intoverted, lives by the saying better to remain quite & thought the fool than open your mouth & remove all doubt. Because of this I attributed characteristics to him he didn't possess. His words didn't prove me wrong because he didn't use many.
We knew each other for a litle less than a year when he went off to the army. We married during his first your in the service.
I think I was attracted to him in part because I thought he had his chit together. He's a smart man & I love that. He's calm & I like that too. He can be kind. Plus, I had been in a relationship, not just before him, with a very emotionally needy man who had tried to kill himself after I'd broken up with him. I think I went too far in the other direction.
Absolutely right Kiwi, there is no good time to D regarding the age of the kids. Maybe when they are very,very young, babies, so they don't have the same attachment & understanding of life with two parents. Then if there is remarriage they grow up with, one hopes, two sets of loving parents.
One thing I've always said about ex's gf is, I just want her to be good to my boys. Even if she was a part of why my M broke up, she's part of ex's life & my boys spend time with her.
Look! I copied text! Not cut & paste but at least something worked.
Bravo Nam. You know something, you can't cut texts that were not written by you on the post, edit, window or page. All the other texts not written by you and not in the write/edit window can't be modify. Maybe your mouse is ok after all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I identify with what you say about seen qualities in your X that he didn't have. I have done that in the past.
It makes me really sad that the 2 most upbeat people on this thread are now the most depressed and stressed people on this thread.
I wish I could make this go away for all of us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Pio, did you anticipate feeling this way after WW got home, even though you didn't want her back? Or did you think you would have felt differently when she was actually there?
WW says she wants the M. She says she wants me to give her a chance to prove herself. She says she is sorry about everything and feels terrible about the damage she has done. She doesn't want divorce and wants us to be together as a family forever. She says she has wanted to talk to me about all of it but was waiting for the right time.
On a side note, a lady moved into the office next to me yesterday and came by to introduce herself. I heard her name but instantly forgot it. This AM I saw her boxes stacked outside her office so I thought to check the name written on them to avoid that embarrassing "I'm sorry, what was your name again?". So I looked at the boxes. She has the same last name as OM. What are the odds? I can't win.
Okay I hate to bring down the mood. Infidelity is depressing enough without my help. I'll lay off posting for a while until, as KiwiJ says, I extract my head.
WW says she wants the M. She says she wants me to give her a chance to prove herself. She says she is sorry about everything and feels terrible about the damage she has done. She doesn't want divorce and wants us to be together as a family forever. She says she has wanted to talk to me about all of it but was waiting for the right time.
Okay I hate to bring down the mood. Infidelity is depressing enough without my help. I'll lay off posting for a while until, as KiwiJ says, I extract my head.
Don't quit posting! We're all here for you...that's what this place is about.
It seems to me that WW needs to do the extraction.
Well it seems to be a night for raw emotions on TKO. I am currently sitting here sobbing my heart out. These words you wrote Todd cut me like a knife but they also give me so much hope for the future.
From Todd
"I had put them aside because I knew that WW had lost her Mom, DS3 went off to college, she went through a MLC and then hit menopause. You just flex when your spouse hits those low and challenging points in their lives. I put my own happiness aside because I truly understood what she was going through."
Your reaction is exactly how I assumed my H would react to my illness. Instead as it turns out he turned his back on me and found his comfort in someone elses arms and left me to fend on my own. He was tested and found wanting. You put into words so clearly, exactly what I needed so badly. I honestly thought we would be there for each other.
But the men on this thread give me hope and faith in the future that maybe down the line I will find a real man. I once again believe that men like you do exist. I am so glad to have met each of you.
Tonight I will just cry for us all and tomorrow will be a new day full of wonderful possibilities and hopefully happiness.
So here is my theory. Where I live is generally considered the source of international terrorism. So what is different about this place? After living here a while, I finally have the answer. During the month of Ramadan, the muslims are to fast during the daylight hours and devote themselves to prayer and meditation. They are to have no carnal thoughts, etc. In order to assist them in their endeavor, the local TV and radio stations change their programming to avoid "modern" music that sings of love and avoid TV programs that show women. The idea is that showing programs about the migration patterns of the Monarch butterfly won't offend anyone. The downside is that the darn butterflies just don't go that many places so it is tough to fill up a month of programming about them.
Well the radio is the worst and this is the source of international terrorism, IMO. In an attempt to not offend anyone at all, the radio places non-stop 24/7 for 28 days nothing but Kenny G. It is pure torture. His alto sax simply bores through your brain. I swear after about 20 days of pure Kenny G, I'm ready to kill somebody myself. No other country inundates its citizens with Kenny G AFAIK so this must be the difference.
So if I can just get a local Imam to issue a fatwah against Kenny G to have him killed and have all his records, tapes and CD's banned worldwide, this should solve the problem. it is my theory anyway and well worth trying. Something must be done to stop Kenny G now!
Let me get this straight. You are going to break NC yet again because DS3 wants you to. How many times do you want to go down this same road. I recommend you take DS3 along for the ride. Let him hear your conversation. Maybe record it and play it back for him. Seriously.
ex said to me at one point before he decided to give it a year for him to fall back in love with me, also known as fake recovery or the Who is My Soul Mate game, that he'd thought of driving his car into a tree, that it would make the whole thing less painfull. I said yeah, you're right it would. I meant it too
LOL...months ago, before the car wreck which totalled my beloved car, my WH made the same statement but mentioned driving off a bridge...I told him to be sure he didn't use my car!!! Those empty threats:) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Do you know how many people think that expression is "baited breath". I'm here now to tell them they are wrong.
Kiwi, Withold your repulsion...I am one of those people!!! Can you believe, an astute scholar like myself (ROFLMAO) not knowing the diff btwn baited and bated! I love this...thank you for diverting my attentions, I was just beginning to brew on my WH after reading Pio's Plight...but I will respond to that separately.
Thanks teach! BTW, you are awesome for sharing all of your experience and insight, I think you are very brave and made of the highest moral fiber. It's human to make mistakes but to admit, be humble, learn and then share your knowledge with others...well, that's just...warm and fuzzy moment...the true meaning of brotherly/sisterly love. Thank you
I just finished reading...wow, lots of stuff...lol great dog name BTW
Todd,
Sounds like you are really in a reflective mode...I think you are approaching things from a little different perspective than the rest of us...am I right? Are you weighing your DS's feelings and opinions more than you would if you were in perfect health? Is your physical condition contributing heavily to your decision making? I know you are a very selfless man and I am not suggesting you become selfish, however, I think that if you made a decision soley on just you and WW and what you wanted with her than life would become better than you could ever expect. I think that either way you choose once you put your mind to it you will have the weight of limbo off of your shoulders and can move to the next level. I seriously would like a few moments with your WW...I feel like she is giving up the premium caliber and running away with her fears and insecurities to muddle around mediocrity land...
I must mention that I purchased some Remy VSOP (I have champagne taste and beer budget so...)it was wonderful...it messed with WH head b/c I haven't had any for over a decade so along with all the other dynamics I believed it has heightened his level of insecurity...thinks someone else is influencing my actions...pretty sad since it is basically me rediscovering me and allowing myself to be me for once!
Pio, If only...if G actually wants to plan A you and does it right...PUHHHHLLLEAAAZZEEE...let her do it...enjoy the ride through to the Holidays...now if it is her idea of plan A, well, that's another story. Is she saying it like she means it???? Does she show any expression, remorse, tears, begging, pleading etc??? Is she groveling? IMO she should be doing all of this but that's just me. I think you should seriously do what someone recommended and sit down and let her know what conditions you need to be able to even consider R...BTW how are the girls dealing with the Return of the Queen?
Luna,
very touching post about your trip and feelings of TKO. Our thoughts are with you on the road. I have to admit that my roadtrips are much better without WH. I stop more frequently with the kids...we use the restroom when we want and have no restroom Nazi to contend with (rarely stops), we eat real food in real restaurants (i detest fast food) and we have fun and listen to kids books on tape in the car (Harry Potter, Amber Brown etc.) I would advise to do exactly what you want and make it as fun as possible considering the circumstances. We'll miss you!
Larousse,
My first M was to same age...he was very immature but I figured at 20 things would only improve...WRONG; this time my WH is 8 yr younger and initially was much more mature than his age or really my age men...some of his excuse for current behavior is that he missed that part of his life and is trying to recapture it. A friend of a friend was commenting on my being a hot catch (he is 25) which got my WH all ticked off and triggered all his accusations of me wanting/being with OM (all pure bull) but the hysterical thing about it all is that the 25 yr old and my friend actually were plotting to pair me up with the 25 yr old's dad who is about 63yr old. Now, I would prefer a mature man since for the past 20 years I have been taking care of other people and have never been taken care of but I think I would limit to about 5 or so years over my age...HOWEVER, I must admit that years ago I stopped using the word "never" b/c each and everytime I have used it...yep whatever it was I declared I would "never do" I ended up doing...I actually told my WH when we first met, "not in this lifetime"...aren't you glad you started the whole age thing...or was it Nams??? hmmmmmmmmmm
BTW, Larousse thanks for the link to the Negotiations...my problem is there is no Radical Honesty so it pretty much takes the wind from any sailing
BK, Steph, Beth, Cinderella no disrespect I have run out of time the kid alarm has been triggered and I must return to Mommy duty and get the troops prepared for church...a baattle in itself...be back later.
I just finished reading...wow, lots of stuff...lol great dog name BTW
If I had a nickel for everytime I have told that story.... What happened over the years is that people would ask what's your dog's name? Stuff. Stuff? How in the world did you pick the name stuff? So, there goes the story again. Some people looked at me so seriously and said: no I think the girl just mean "my mom and stuff" as teen slang. No hock, Sherlock.
Our most recent dog was named Cedar. That invited all the requisite questions about the reason for his name. When he was a puppy, his fur was the same color as a cedar tree in our backyard. DS2 is our resident tree person and he so named him. The other choice was Marley because the dog was a CockaPoo but basically had those cocker ears. He was a black dog so his floppy ears had the look of dreds. But then I thought: hmmm... too close of an association with drugs, so no, let's stick with Cedar.
Quote
Todd,
Sounds like you are really in a reflective mode...I think you are approaching things from a little different perspective than the rest of us...am I right?
I am not sure how to answer this. What do you mean?
Quote
Are you weighing your DS's feelings and opinions more than you would if you were in perfect health?
No. I hate that DS3 is so upset about the breakup of our family but in the end, I will do what I think is right for me. He is just tough to deal with, that's all. He is very headstrong; not sure where he gets it.
Quote
Is your physical condition contributing heavily to your decision making?
Not at all. WW is zero help with my condition so it doesn't play into my decision at all. If anything, she is a counterweight because she is in such denial.
Quote
I know you are a very selfless man and I am not suggesting you become selfish, however, I think that if you made a decision soley on just you and WW and what you wanted with her than life would become better than you could ever expect.
I am not sure what I have said to give you the idea that I am a selfless man. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Quote
I think that either way you choose once you put your mind to it you will have the weight of limbo off of your shoulders and can move to the next level.
I agree. I have doing the limbo much too long. My back is sore. The goal tonight is to get me out of limbo. And I am not concerned about which way it goes. I am indifferent.
Quote
I seriously would like a few moments with your WW...I feel like she is giving up the premium caliber and running away with her fears and insecurities to muddle around mediocrity land...
Thank you 2much. I agree of course but after tonight, it will be resolved one way, or the other.
Quote
I must mention that I purchased some Remy VSOP (I have champagne taste and beer budget so...)it was wonderful...it messed with WH head b/c I haven't had any for over a decade so along with all the other dynamics I believed it has heightened his level of insecurity...thinks someone else is influencing my actions...pretty sad since it is basically me rediscovering me and allowing myself to be me for once!
Cognac is really warm going down isn't it? They must sell 90% of all cognac during the fall and winter because it mates well with cold weather. Glad you enjoyed it!
Good morning all! Another beautiful fall day! I love it!
Another day filled with kid stuff & some chores, but those I'll do with a good friend so we just enjoy the time together.
2much, how funny (?) your ex said he'd considered driving off a bridge. Here I though because ex had such difficulty communicating his emotions, much less recognizing them, he was sincere. Silly me. A year or two after he'd said he'd thought of driving into a tree I thought I should apologize for having responded the way I did. Nah...as you hysterically pointed out it was all an empty promise. I still feel a bit naughty though. Must be the good girl in me.
Hi Todd, 2much, Pio, Kiwi, absent sweet luna, BigK, stph, larousse, to those I missed a big ((()))
2regret, your post was heartfelt & beautifully said, good morning BTW.
I remember in the begining when ex said he wanted to D I kept thinking & asking what about the promise we made to be there for each other? What about the commitment? I truly though I could always count on that. I guess the characteristic to be there for your partner was something I attributed to him that he really didn't possess.
You are not silly...suicide threats should always be taken seriously...I had this experience with H1 and almost didn't go through with D b/c fear that he would actually carry out the threat. Once I realized that whether it was manipulation or not it was his issue and my staying wouldn't really be a factor in his overall happiness I was able to move on. Orchid stated in the past that if the WS makes such threats the BS should treat it seriously and notify authorities/suicide hotline etc if suicidal ideations/gestures/threats.
Todd,
To sum all your q's up...I think you are self-less b/c of the things you write about making sacrifices for WS and DS's...maybe I'm wrong but the impression I get is that I am on track...as far as looking at things from a different perspective...
if I were staring a brain tumor in the face I would have an entirely different perspective on life vs. general population...my accident gave me a better perspective and new appreciation for life that is a double edged sword for me... I try to live each day as if it were my last and make the most of every moment...I am less anal about meaningless task (come check out my house:) spend more time with kids, try not to over-react as much and try to be more forgiving...OTOH...I also feel that with the limited time we all may/maynot have we should do what is within our control to create an environment of happiness and not dwell in chronically miserable situations...
BUT I am also reminded that the less we are concerned with our own happiness and plans and look more toward pleasing God and following his word the happier we will be in the long run...it's all very confusing to me and at times contradictory...I didn't mean to get into all of my religious beliefs and my internal chaos over confusing my plan and Gods etc...sorry
Those were the kind of discussions/debates I enjoyed with WH back when we were first getting to know each other...I sure miss it:(
My kids are ready for church an hour early...RED FLAG...I am sure we will be late b/c this NEVER happens!!!
I'll be thinking of you guys and praying for all of us.
Right Stef - Are you saying I am downbeat or depressed?
Well, given all the lecturing and yelling you do to me...tell me again how that makes you upbeat??? You sure know how to bring me down!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
To sum all your q's up...I think you are self-less b/c of the things you write about making sacrifices for WS and DS's...maybe I'm wrong but the impression I get is that I am on track...as far as looking at things from a different perspective...
if I were staring a brain tumor in the face I would have an entirely different perspective on life vs. general population...my accident gave me a better perspective and new appreciation for life that is a double edged sword for me... I try to live each day as if it were my last and make the most of every moment...I am less anal about meaningless task (come check out my house:) spend more time with kids, try not to over-react as much and try to be more forgiving...OTOH...I also feel that with the limited time we all may/maynot have we should do what is within our control to create an environment of happiness and not dwell in chronically miserable situations...
2much,
I have my bouts of selfishness just like anyone I suppose. Just try to keep a balance.
As for life perspective, when I first came home from the hospital last August, I was all about making every moment count. It is still important but the intensity has worn off. I am confident that some of it eroded on DD. I have heard people say, oh make every day count, go skydiving, hangliding, swim with the sharks, etc. Not my idea of making every moment count. To me, it means to spend time with those I love and enjoy being around. It means refinding lost hobbies, buying as many clamps as I can corner the market on (smile) and enjoying life's everyday little blessings.
I have always tried the see the melody of life. That doesn't make much sense. I will give you an example. My WW had a college professor who told his class that most people don't really observe what is going on in the world around them. As an example, he said that he pulled up to a four way stop sign intersection behind a VW beetle. The old one. The cars sitting at the other three stop signs were also VW Beetles. That was a treat to him. You see, it would have been to me too. It was nothing but sheer coincidence to be ignored or appreciated for its simple and perfect grandeur.
I find the little everyday occurences in life much more enjoyable. When DS3 called to say he and his W were building a house and did I want to go see their lot, I said absolutely. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. That will the first house in all likelihood to house the first ToddAC grandchildren. Of course, I want to see the lot.
I am a slow learner in many ways and one of the things late to roost in my brain is what makes me happy. It's the little things. The big ones come and go and are faint memories. I have so many friends who go to Europe and watch the Guard, take a million pics of Big Ben, same with the Awful Tower, etc. I want to go to a pub in Essex and discuss global politics. I could care less about Big Ben or trying to make the Guard laugh. I don't think I need to voice an opinion on see the Awful Tower.....
Anyway, I don't feel sharp today. We were up late and not much sleep.
I wish I could write as fast as you all seem to manage plus how on earth do you reply to all the different posts like you do? By the time I read one reply another ten have appeared. Hopefully I will get the hang of it as I feel badly for not doing more posts. So often there is something I want to say to a poster but by the time I get around to posting you have moved on another 10 topics !
I seem to be always posting to you Todd and I guess that has a lot to do with our health situations. On a post a few days back you said that you would refuse chemotherapy. Why do you feel that way? Just to let you know that yes, I did have chemo. It is not nearly as bad as it once was, yes I lost all the hair on my body - but it grew back. I just don't want you to discount that alternative if your only reason is the horror stories.
I also know so well what you mean about appreciaing those special moments in life. Each time I see the sun rise or set over the ocean I stop and enjoy the beauty now and no longer take it for granted. Each time my children hug me there is a new intensity. A beatutiful bloom is so much more precious, finding a special sea shell on the beach with my young son is a moment of joy. Yes, the small things are the most precious.
I wish you the best for your discussion tonight. I hope it turns out to be what is best for you and what is in your heart.
It is Sunday afternoon here but the song "It never rains in Southern California" does not apply today. We have had so much rain that some areas of town are flooded. I envy you your trip to summer while we quickly approach winter.
I hope you don't mind a quick question - I have a friend whom is flying into Aukland for a couple of days late this week. I told her I would ask you for any site seeing "Musts" while she is there. I do not know where you are located in New Zealand but if you have any idea would you mind letting me know ?
Hi again, it's quiet on this thread this afternoon - am I the only one home alone on a wet Sunday afternoon? I have a pot of soup on simmering and the house is filled with it's wonderful aroma and my mood is mellow. It is a pleasant afternoon.
When I was much younger and supporting my H while he studied for the BAR I opened my first clothing store/boutique. It was such a giddy time of great trepidation and excitement. My best friend gave me a framed print to spur me on my way. Today I would like to post it for you in the hope it will have a positive impact on even one person. Is posting this called "Doing a Todd"?
Follow Your Dreams
If while pursuing distant dreams Your bright hopes turn to gray, Don't wait for reassuring words Or hands to lead the way.
For seldom will you find a soul With dreams the same as yours. Not often will another help you Pass through untried doors.
If inner forces urge you To take a course unknown, Be ready to go all the way, Yes, all the way alone.
That's not to say you shouldn't Draw lessons from the best; Just don't depend on lauding words To spur you on your quest.
Find confidence within your heart And let it be your guide. Strive ever harder toward your dreams And they wont be denied.
Luv the poem...made my day...I was feeling aggravated by WH who I expected home about an hour ago but he is running late...I planned to go out alone and study and work on a paper due...I got so furious as I had spent all day doing kid stuff, raking leaves, picking pumpkins and polishing them to a shine, making the house and yard look like fall. It was excellent bonding time and I had fun with the kids. We bought ski bibs for snowplay, some other odds and ends that we came across for the up and coming cold weather. They are all now surrounding me reading their books...they love Geronimo Stilton books...my Asperger's son reads aloud so it is hard for all of us to concentrate on our own reading but it will be great memories for the future for us to chuckle about. My youngest is upstairs singing to her favorite CD with "I'm a Barbie Girl"...I could go the rest of my life without hearing that song again but know that in later years each time I hear it I will fondly smile and think of DD2.
What kinda soup you brewing? I am a huge soup fan and love both making and eating it. I think perhaps some of the infidelity diet may be wearing off...that is a bad thing...I am at the perfect weight and would prefer to stay here...I'm sure I am no where near the end of the rollercoaster ride so maybe it is not nearly over...who knows.
I have my military physical fitness test tomorrow so think of me as I will be up early doing push-ups/sit-ups and running my buns off!!! I will fuel my running with good anger management songs like Christina Aguilara's "Fighter" and Alanis Morrisett "You Ought to Know"...that always gets me charged...
I am trying to keep up with the housework/yardwork/schoolwork/kidwork...it is never ending but in a strange way more challenging than any job I've ever had. I hope to look back at this period in my life with pride and a sense of strength and accomplishment...I don't want to be embarassed of my actions or feel like I was a wimp.
I can't imagine what you have been going through battling illness alone...I'm sure you and Todd have much in common. He is superman you know...he may not have mentioned that to you yet but it is public knowledge so I am not really exposing. Perhaps you can join him in the superhero category...any favorites? He seriously loves superman...
Good morning, I hope you are headed for a pleasant day. I heard you have had fires over there already which seems early for you. I hope it is not going to be a bad fire season. When I was there several years ago Sydney was surrounded by fires. It was terrifying but prepared me for our own a few years later.
I have a question for you. One of my friends is on her way to New Zealand and Australia. It is business but she is managing to spend a couple of extra days in both countries.
We were discussing her trip to Brisbane and we totally disagree on how to pronounce Brisbane. Is it Brisbun or Brisbain ? I wont tell you which one I went for but there is $10.00 resting on your reply!
Auckland - One Tree Hill is famous for some reason.
Well it's got one up on No Trees, Texas. That reminds me of the movie Back to the Future when Marty agrees to meet Doc at Twin Pines Mall, goes back in time, runs over one of the trees and, when he returns back to the present, the name of the mall had changed to Lone Pine Mall.
I wonder how much money is spent keeping that one tree going in NZ. We have an oil well here. First oil well producer ever drilled in the KSA. The locals believe that as long as that well produces, there will be prosperity in the Kingdom. It still produces. We drilled four oil injector wells around it and we pump oil INTO the ground just to keep that first well going. Nobody else on the planet would ever consider doing such a thing. It is kind of like the ravens at the Tower of London. Superstition.
We were discussing her trip to Brisbane and we totally disagree on how to pronounce Brisbane. Is it Brisbun or Brisbain ? I wont tell you which one I went for but there is $10.00 resting on your reply!
Brisbun.
It is early for fires for sure. We live near Sydney. We have been evacuated a few times over the 15 years we have lived up here.
I always love your stories. I have a sister living in Dubai with her H at the moment. I worry about them with the troubles in the middle East but she says she is probably safer there compared to me walking the streets of the USA!
Piojitos I was thinking about your situation and if your wife is staying until Christmas anyway, why don't you tell her exactly what she would need to do for R and just see how it goes? Nothing ventured....
2Much,
To me you sound like a Supermom. How on earth do you manage to do everything? How many children do you have? What ages Etc.? I have long admired your perserverance with your WH and I certainly wish you happiness.
The soup I made today is Tortilla soup. It is magnificent and if you would like the recipe just let me know and I will send it to you. I make the chicken broth from scratch so it is very healthy as well as an incredible taste sensation. My boys all love it. I too adore soups and find them the only redeeming feature of winter.
Steph.
Hi and have fun on your date this evening, just be yourself and enjoy. Where are you going? I hope you fill us in later on how it goes.
I must admit my thoughts are all with ToddAC, I guess he is at dinner as I write. I have my fingers and toes crossed that his wife will regain her senses.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh We lived in Dee Why for the first 10 years of our Marriage. Moved to the Central Coast 15 years ago - it's around an hour north of Sydney by car - or 60km, 37 miles.
Hi Beth, I live in Auckland, have done all my life.
One Tree Hill has an interesting story behind it. Auckland is built on 40 or so extinct volcanoes. Nearly every suburb has "Mount" in it. One Tree Hill is set in a very beautiful park that was gifted to Auckland in the 1880s by a founding father of Auckland. There is a memorial on top of the hill that had one tree planted beside it. You could see it from all over Auckland. The park itself has lots of trees but the one tree at the top of the hill stands (stood) out against the skyline.
One night, a few years ago, the tree was cut down by a Maori activist (long story but we have ongoing treaty disputes with the native people of NZ. (Not indigenous, they came here from various Pacific Islands about 1,500 years ago.)
Now no one can decide what tree to plant - whether it should be a native tree or an imported tree. So it is now No Tree Hill but we all still call it One Tree Hill. U2 wrote a song about it.
We turn away to face the cold, enduring chill As the day begs the night for mercy love The sun so bright it leaves no shadows Only scars carved into stone On the face of earth The moon is up and over One Tree Hill We see the sun go down in your eyes
You run like river, on like a sea You run like a river runs to the sea
And in the world a heart of darkness A fire zone Where poets speak their heart Then bleed for it Jara sang, his song a weapon In the hands of love You know his blood still cries From the ground
It runs like a river runs to the sea It runs like a river to the sea
I don't believe in painted roses Or bleeding hearts While bullets rape the night of the merciful I'll see you again When the stars fall from the sky And the moon has turned red Over One Tree Hill
We run like a river Run to the sea We run like a river to the sea And when it's raining Raining hard That's when the rain will Break my heart
Raining...raining in the heart Raining in your heart Raining...raining to your heart Raining, raining...raining Raining to your heart Raining...raining in your heart Raining in your heart.. To the sea
Oh great ocean Oh great sea Run to the ocean Run to the sea
My goodness I can't believe it - I only know about two towns in Sydney !! We stayed with her on our trip and Dee Why was so beautiful. I am pretty sure we went to the Central Coast. We went to a place called Godsford(?) and we had a crazy, funny night at a Soldiers Club there. We drove all around the area, such beautiful beaches and such lovely bush areas.
You are a lucky man to live there.
Back to finishing dinner, I got so excited when I saw your reply I had to post right away.
Shouldn't that be Dee Woy BigK. (ha ha kiwi joke again).
We used to go through Dee Why every time we visited my sister who lived at Avalon. You will know where that is BigK. They lived right on the cliff top.
Beth - you are thinking about Gosford. Wow. I can be in Gosford in 10 minutes from my house. If you ever come back to Aussie and are up this way again let me know. Wow. The Aussie MB get together.
I stood in front waiting for WW to pick me up. When she pulled up, she was on her cell. I got in the car and she continued to talk like I was not there. We sat there for several minutes while she was lost in her conversation. I could tell by references that it was one of her sisters. I gestured my hands and shrugged my shoulders like let’s get going. She drives off. To my surprise, she pulls into a restaurant a few blocks from where I live. She parks and we sat there as she is still talking on the phone. We sit there for several minutes or so and I get out of the car and go and stand by the front door. She finally gets out of the car and walks back and forth in front of the restaurant while she continues her conversation. When I catch her eye, I motion to the door, then open the door for her and she motions with a finger to hold on. The conversation is about nothing. Just a sisterly concoction of news, updates and family gossip. I have had enough and walk into the restaurant by myself. I head for the bar and order a drink. Finally, a few minutes later, she appears. She sits at the bar and wants to order a glass of wine. I told her no, we are getting a table. She knew I was pissed so we got a table.
We had been sitting at the table for no more than a couple of minutes when her cell beeps signaling a voice message. Another sister had called while she was on the phone. To my shock, she dials that sister and they talk for several minutes. Finally, she gets off the phone and starts telling me about the first conversation. Her sister had started a service to organize people’s homes. She had been to a home yesterday and had the first meeting. She was sharing her excitement with WW. Then WW tells me that the husband of the couple that WW’s sister met with yesterday has a brain tumor. But as WW put it, his is much worse than mine. He had to have surgery. Also, he almost had a seizure and his eyesight was affected. WW told me that at least mine was not that bad. I stated at her not so much in disbelief but in awe. She is able to completely put things into neat compartments and lock them away from any recall or senses.
Then, with no fanfare or salutations, she launched into her “unconditional love” speech. That if I truly loved her, I would love her unconditionally, regardless of what she has done or what I think she has done. She added that she is not interested in “partial love” in which I pick and choose when to love her and not love her. If I love her, it must be complete no matter what happens. She quickly piggybacked by expressing her disappointment at being exposed. Our marriage should be between the two of us. There was no reason to bring our sons, friends or family into our marriage. You just don’t do that to a person. I asked her what she thought was worse: her affair or my exposure. As you would probably guess, my exposure. I should have kept our problems between just the two of us. I reminded her that we had been through this mill several times and that if she so strongly believed that we should keep any problems in our marriage between the two of us, why did she bring OM into our marriage? She said that was different that she thought I was dying and OM was there for her when I wasn’t. He truly loves her and gave her the attention she needed. Finally, she was honest.
At this point, I had zero interest in continuing any sort of discussion with her. She continued her lecture and I looked directly at her but my eyes were focused approximately a foot in front of her eyes. I shut her out visually and auditorily. She babbled about this and that forever and I never heard more than a few words. I was done but after she seem to weaken her batteries a little bit, I told her what I had to say. I told her that I will not move forward without complete honesty. I told her I knew she had a PA and a EA and have several points of proof. If she wants to have any chance at R, it is time to be honest. She said that she didn’t have an affair. I told her fine, do not call, do not visit, do not email and do not relay messages through DS’s. We are done. I am not playing the WW is perfect and ToddAC is El Diablo. She said fine.
She drove me back home and I got out of the car without either of us saying a word. So, the result was exactly as I had predicted although the process was not what I would have preferred. I am done. I will not live in a marriage full of lies. I will not R with a woman who believes she can lie her way through every problem that comes up. As DS1 said yesterday, is WW doesn’t learn from this process, she will find a new OM one of these days. I have had enough hurt at the hands of WW to last me a lifetime.
I am sorry your WW is braindead but you are the one with the tumor! I am happy for you that if nothing else limbo is over, you can move on with your life and spend your passion, creativity and humor on someone who will appreciate, reciprocate and treasure you...you deserve it...we all do...you just get to start your adventure a bit earlier than some of us!
I hate that she wasted lots of time proving that she is still a WS...but you have grown and gotten stronger over this period of time...unfortunately you haven't mastered cooking skills so you should explicitly seek a woman who either will take cooking classes with you or will be sure you are well fed...cooking classes could be fun don't you think? Shoot, anything could be fun with the right person...recover yourself and then you can begin your search...try to get some sleep...I bet the weight of the world is off your shoulders
[color:"blue"] I'm so sorry Todd. It's sad and scary that 'The Talks' with your WW seem to be like the same script, different restaurant.[/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
[color:"green"] Please take care of your health.[/color]
I am sorry your WW is braindead but you are the one with the tumor! I am happy for you that if nothing else limbo is over, you can move on with your life and spend your passion, creativity and humor on someone who will appreciate, reciprocate and treasure you...you deserve it...we all do...you just get to start your adventure a bit earlier than some of us!
I hate that she wasted lots of time proving that she is still a WS...but you have grown and gotten stronger over this period of time...unfortunately you haven't mastered cooking skills so you should explicitly seek a woman who either will take cooking classes with you or will be sure you are well fed...cooking classes could be fun don't you think? Shoot, anything could be fun with the right person...recover yourself and then you can begin your search...try to get some sleep...I bet the weight of the world is off your shoulders
gnight and hugz
Hi 2much,
Well, if I take cooking classes, the fire department will have to standby. I am not so sure the weight of the world is off my shoulders. I wish. With my sons, I have always tried to live an example for them, not merely lecture or teach. This week I will meet with them to let them know the timeline and what all my efforts have been. I want them to understand you don't simply throw a marriage or family away when the going gets rough.
I have enough confidence that I feel that everything I undertake should be successful. It is always a setback when I am not, even if it is beyond my control.
You really should do more cooking. I can live weeks without heat. The vegetable and fruit section of the supermarket is great for meeting women. Just shop for things and look perplexed (no act since we men have no clue how to buy these things). Women will always come to your rescue. My thing is cilantro (coriander) . Why in the world can't they put cilantro all by itself so as not to confuse? But noooooo! They have to stick it in among all sorts of other leafy things so I invariable get anything but cilantro. And the bins are NEVER properly marked. Cilantro is where the Chinese parlsey should be and the Chinese parsley is where... Oh don't get me started! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
My basic breakfast is two cans of tuna [packed in salt water] (drained) mixed with extra hot picante sauce and diced habaneros. It doesn't need to be heated - it makes its own. Don't let it set too long before consuming however because it has been known to spontaneously combust.
I'm sorry your WW seems to be so thick in the skull. I really think absolute NC is your only option - even if you want Plan D. Just stop talking to her and get the D. Remember that D is not final. There is still chance of R after that but something has to get through to her.
My story seems to be taking a different turn. I am dead set on D and WW is dead set on R. I told her we still need to have that talk she mentioned. I don't think the fight we had the other night quite covered things. I told her I still have "issues".
There is a new thread right now that has MelodyLane's knickers in a twist. I have been reading that thread and I am convinced it should be on MP rather than MB (MP = Maury Povich).
OTOH, sometimes I think I should be on Maury Povich. I used to watch that show with WW (pre-A). I can't watch it any more. I feel so sorry for all those BS's whose Dday is filmed in front of a live studio audience and shown on national TV. What is wrong with WS's that would allow them to do something like that to their spouse? I can't confess to you in the privacy of my own home but I can on syndicated TV? OTOH, Maury does have bouncers. Maybe that's a plus. Hey maybe that would be a good service business to get in to - Dday bouncing. Employ big guys to go to a WW's home so she can confess her A to BH - maybe even rent the folding metal chairs as part of the service - I think I'm on to something here...I need a good catchy name...
Is this kinda a reverse psychology thing for you? I mean you do have a plan here I presume?
No. No plan. I realized I was much happier without her than with her. I'm not happy she is back and I have yet to figure out anything she does to make me happy. I'm really struggling here. I'm not saying I refuse to try to R but I have yet to hear what her plan is and what she thinks R is about. I am interested to see what she has to say. I am just totally detached from her. I go through the motions of being a good husband but I have zero feelings for gemela. She could be anybody in the bed next to me (except that I won't cheat on her). I guess all I can do, assuming she really does want to R, is give it time and see if I can find a way to love her again. She isn't unpleasant to be around.
I have been thinking about you much of the day and saying a quiet prayer for you. I do so admire your spirit. I so wish my H was half the man you are. I know the evening had to be very disappointing as it is human to hope. But, I am so glad for you that your decision has now been made. It is time to pick yourself up and shake yourself off and face the wonderful world that awaits you. Your footsteps will no longer be faltering but placed firmly in front of you.
Regarding cell phones, my H will also take calls at restaurants etc. in fact I cannot think of anytime he will not answer his cell - it was even beside our bed. Have you ever been in the middle of making love and had your spouse take a call? Yes, that has happened to me. I will not tell you my reaction but I think you can guess. I have a cell phone that is strictly for emergencies with the family. I guess you can understand my probably misplaced dislike of cell phones. My H is a pompous [censored]. The other habit my H has is to imperiously hold up a finger to get you to wait while he takes a call. One day I will bite that damn finger off.
Boy, that was a great vent. Didn't know just how much I hated cell phones.
Try and clear your head of thoughts tonight Todd and get a good nights sleep. You must be exhausted.
I haven't had a cell phone for two years. I seem to get along okay without one. The sky hasn't fallen yet. Of course, if the sky does decide to fall, nobody will be able to call me and give me a "heads up" (or is it "heads down" in this case?). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I hate cell phones. I was able to get along fine almost all my life without one (i.e. before they were invented) and I am doing okay now. There is nothing that urgent. Sorry.
Pio - I presume you understand you don't need any feelings to attempt recovery? I also think that you are in far better shape to lead in recovery than Gemela. You have a WS that is willing to work on recovery - that's more than many people on MB. If you expect her to know what to do, you know she doesn't so you may as well just divorce now - saves being miserable for the next year.
Well nams has me thinking about the results of various pottery glazes on different type of ceramics and I think the key is in the atomic structure of the ceramic material itself but possibly more importantly in the trace elements (impurities) present. There may also be important effects of kiln temperature as well as whether the kiln environment is "reducing" or "oxygenating" during the firing. I also wonder whether nams has ever experimented with adding vanadium pentoxide or vanadium trioxide or tried varying the ratio of kaolin to silica. Is the ceramic zinc-bearing? The fact that a single glaze can behave differently on different ceramic base materials makes me wonder if the glaze is not formed by a catalytic process. Possibly it is just the molecular structure of the ceramic matrix, covalent and ionic bonds that interact with the glaze or even crystallization that occurs in the ceramic during firing. There is clearly not enough research published in the public domain to draw a conclusion although I suspect that the reaction is understood to some extent by glaze manufacturers. Do you work with mostly alumina based or silica based ceramics?
I presume you understand you don't need any feelings to attempt recovery? I also think that you are in far better shape to lead in recovery than Gemela. You have a WS that is willing to work on recovery - that's more than many people on MB. If you expect her to know what to do, you know she doesn't so you may as well just divorce now
Yes Sensei, I understand. That is why I told her we should talk. That is why she is still here.
I hate cross dressing but it doesn't stop me if I'm in the mood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I didn't really say that did I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Todd - you have a brain tumour that will get better. There is no cure for what she has.
Thanks BigK.
Yeah, there seems to be no cure for what ails her. I guess I have held out hope that one day she will snap and come to her senses. But I have to give her credit. She is hanging tough. I truly believe that she is protecting OM or thinks she is. It is a testament to how strong her love for him is, if I am correct.
[color:"blue"] I'm so sorry Todd. It's sad and scary that 'The Talks' with your WW seem to be like the same script, different restaurant.[/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
[color:"green"] Please take care of your health.[/color]
[color:"red"] Thanks Larousse. [/color] [color:"green"] What's that definition of mental illness? [/color] [color:"blue"] Repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome [/color] [color:"pink"] I guess by that definition, I am crazy. [color:"purple"] [/color] I guess I just have to find the right restaurant for her to tell the truth.[/color]
Is your work day over yet? Thanks for the information on One Tree Hill. I bet there was an uproar when the tree was removed - what a shame someone did that.
Can you come up with any other tourist spots? I remember going to your home town and the beautiful harbor. I think we tried to fit too much into a short time and now everything has melded together. Is your daughter still in the States? I hope she is enjoying herself.
Beth, the main attraction in Auckland is the harbour and it's best seen in high summer, although it's beautiful any time of year.
My drive to work every morning is along the sea front. Even in winter when the waves are crashing over the road, it's still beautiful. I've driven that road for the last 35 years and I never, never tire of it. Just out of the city there are beautiful and unspoilt surf beaches and very pretty countryside.
The other attractions of Auckland are the food and wine and cafes. That's about it LOL. It's a big city and the starting point for everywhere else in NZ.
The University, where I work, is worth looking at. It's got a beautiful old clocktower made of white stone which is really lovely.
Oh, and, yes, my daughter and her boyfriend are still in the States. I haven't heard a word from them for 5 days but I refuse to worry. In Europe she was emailing me daily.
Thanks Jen. I will tell my girlfriend all that you have mentioned.
Do you know where your daughter was heading? I don't think we have the same amount of internet cafe's as they do in Europe. In fact I can't think of one in our town at all, she would need to go to the library here.
Internet cafes are not nearly as common in the USA as they are anywhere else in the world. I'm not sure why that is but Americans use the internet differently and there are different economic drivers as well. In other words, internet cafes usually can't stay in business in the USA. When Al Gore first invented the internet, they were a common sight but not any more. Even people on welfare have broadband in their homes. In contrast, they are still very common in Europe and Central and South America. I'm not sure about Asia though. That market seems to have gone the way of the cellphone and WAP sites. Don't know since I haven't been there in a while. As long as they stay out of Florida, I wouldn't worry about them. In the USA, internet revenue seems to come primarily from advertising so connection rates are low or free. Hard to compete with "free".
No I must have missed that post about Gosford. What is the name of your town? Maybe I went there too. I seem to be following you around. I would love to come back to your beautiful country, I just loved it. The people were all so friendly and helpful too. Only problem we had to deal with was the Clinton jokes everyone wanted to tell us, but they were very funny and at the time he was a bit of a joke!
Maybe we can organize a trip for us all to come over and see you. Wouldn't that be something. Or you could come here and we can all meet at my place. I have plenty of space.
You are correct I have been sitting here thinking about the nearest internet cafe and I am positive there isn't one. This is a college town and all the kids have lap top computers, you see them at Starbucks etc. where they can get free internet access but they are all using their own machine.
My internet service which is cable is $49.95 a month. I had dial up but it was so slow I fell asleep all the time, so if you want speed it gets pricey.
My H now has a chip in his lap top from Cingular that allows him to get connected anywhere in the world. He no longer has to worry about finding a site to use or worry that the hotel he stays in has connections.
Are you going to come and join us for a trip to see BigK ?
One thing I have also been meaning to tell you is that yes, we are going to need passports for Mexico and Canada but not until sometime in 2007. Just a bit late for me.
Tj is a huge attraction for the college kids here too. You have to be 21 to drink in the states but only 18 in Mexico and I don't think they even check ages at all.
A friends son was picked up near TJ for not having indentification on him when he was laying on the beach. But $100.00 was enough to send the Federale on his way. All the kids have learnt to carry cash for such times as it is a regular event.
I don't know what will happen to TJ when the passport rule goes into effect as they depend on the tourist trade and the college kids. Also getting through the boarder can take several hours now without the hassle of passports being checked.
It will make my life as a mom much easier the boys needing a passport to get in there but I couldn't keep my H out.
I understand the reasoning behind pssports but I am not sure what the outcome will be.
Are you going to come and join us for a trip to see BigK ?
If BigK wants to delay until August, he can go to Sturgis with me.
Different Subject:
I think I commented that Bigger's screen name was dangerous because of the placement of certain letters on the keyboard. I always double check the spelling when I write his name. Now I have wound another word to worry about. It happened when I wrote that ML had her knickers in a twist. I almost had an embarrassing moment with that one too. I need a new word besides knickers.
Has anyone explained to BigK that February/March is still pretty cold in the USA?
With the recently upgraded forum software, you should never really lose a post. The time-out thing comes and goes. If you got to submit a post and get the error, don't panic - use the browser "back" button to go back to what you had written. Use the mouse to highlight your entire post and "right" click and select copy from the menu to save your post in the memory cache. Try submitting again. Sometimes it takes the second time. If not, go back to the forum and enter the thread again and post a reply ony now click in the text area and paste what you had saved (right click and select paste). and then submit again.
If you are careful and don't panic, you really shoudln't lose a post. The previous version of the forum software would not allow you to use the "back" button so you did lose posts but the new version has at least solved that problem.
I too remember looking at ex thinking, does he REALLY not get it or is he being stubborn. Turns out he didn't get it. Or maybe he did & he just didn't care, on to his new life.
I agree it's very important to share with your boys what you've done to save the M.
Upon the advice of my IC ex & I used we when telling the boys about our separation (road to D in his mind). For a couple of months I kept the we part up until the questions the boys asked could no longer truthfully be answered that way. So, from that point on I told things in the way I felt they happened. My youngest said to me "Why did you lie to us & say you both had decided?". Infuriated ex but I think the picture was much clearer.
Pio , this was something I thought of applying to you when I read the other day you would take the blame for sending G away. The truth will always come out. Kids, even at the young age yours are, understand far more than we give them credit for. The truth told in an age appropriate way will serve you best. If it comes to that of course. You're truly in the wait & see area.
Your thoughts on clay are interesting! The clay I use has no zinc & is silica based, though I buy commercial VS making my own & the companies do not share their recipes for their clays. I fire mostly in an oxidation atmosphere, reduction only if I'm lucky. A reduction atmosphere can do spectacular things to a glaze. Some glazes will have zinc but for the most part they don't. I do mix some of my own glazes but mostly buy commercial, I wonder if I described to you the outcome of some of the lest successful ones could you help me buy giving me some chemicals I could add to improve their look?
You mentioned two chemicals, what do you think they would do to glazes? What I like to see in a glaze is something that moves, but not so much it runs off the pot. Enough to move some chemicals around so they add depth & interest VS a shoe polish look. I prefer satins or matts to high gloss but I like to mix glazes on a piece to keep things interesting. Right now I'm doing what I call a landscape look. This involves three glazes on one piece. One glaze between the other two so it mixes with those two. Does that make sense?
This whole clay/glaze interaction discussion could be lots of fun! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I sat down with oldest sone yesterday so he could show me cut & paste. He was delighted to show me so he could treat me like a mentally challenged 3 year old. I keep telling myself he has a good heart & he's 15 so this will pass.
Kiwi, maybe your DD is having such fun here in the States she doesn't have the time she had in those other countries to be emailing her mom.
If I see a tall man with a smaller woman & he has on black socks with sandals I'll let you know I've seen your DD & her BF. Or, if I happen to overhear two people speaking funny I'll let you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I'm sorry your WW seems to be so thick in the skull. I really think absolute NC is your only option - even if you want Plan D. Just stop talking to her and get the D. Remember that D is not final. There is still chance of R after that but something has to get through to her.
I'm not sure. I am reminded of my doc's Mom who took five years to comprehend what she had done after a LTA. I think WW is in the same group and will take her a long time. I actually could see her in denial from now on. But anyway, I am back to being resolute and am NC as of yesterday.
On the other hand, the peace from trying hard can get you through some tough things.
Thanks Cinders.
This is part of my quest, to be able to look myself in the mirror and to look my sons in the eyes and feel good that I tried to do everything humanly possible.
I have been thinking about you much of the day and saying a quiet prayer for you. I do so admire your spirit. I so wish my H was half the man you are. I know the evening had to be very disappointing as it is human to hope. But, I am so glad for you that your decision has now been made. It is time to pick yourself up and shake yourself off and face the wonderful world that awaits you. Your footsteps will no longer be faltering but placed firmly in front of you.
Thanks Beth. I also have to face my sons, especially DS3. Ugh. Oh well, it will get done.
Quote
Regarding cell phones, my H will also take calls at restaurants etc. in fact I cannot think of anytime he will not answer his cell - it was even beside our bed. Have you ever been in the middle of making love and had your spouse take a call? Yes, that has happened to me. I will not tell you my reaction but I think you can guess. I have a cell phone that is strictly for emergencies with the family. I guess you can understand my probably misplaced dislike of cell phones. My H is a pompous [censored]. The other habit my H has is to imperiously hold up a finger to get you to wait while he takes a call. One day I will bite that damn finger off.
No, never while making love but that was one time just after we finished and I thought basking in the afterglow and her phone rings and she jumps up like a jack-in-the-box and ran to get the phone. Very romantic.
If I see a tall man with a smaller woman & he has on black socks with sandals I'll let you know I've seen your DD & her BF. Or, if I happen to overhear two people speaking funny I'll let you know.
I too remember looking at ex thinking, does he REALLY not get it or is he being stubborn. Turns out he didn't get it. Or maybe he did & he just didn't care, on to his new life.
I agree it's very important to share with your boys what you've done to save the M.
Upon the advice of my IC ex & I used we when telling the boys about our separation (road to D in his mind). For a couple of months I kept the we part up until the questions the boys asked could no longer truthfully be answered that way. So, from that point on I told things in the way I felt they happened. My youngest said to me "Why did you lie to us & say you both had decided?". Infuriated ex but I think the picture was much clearer.
Hi and Thanks Nams.
I have decided that either she is a really good liar or she has some degree of mental illness. And I am being serious. Last night, she again looked at the sores and scabs in my scalp and seemed surprised to see them. She asked what had caused them. I told her I didn't know. Sometimes you just want to be a wallflower and not dance.
I will tell my sons the truth. I stayed awake last night thinking about what to tell them. Well, DS3 really. I decided on the truth and let the chips roost where they belong. I keep learning all the lying and posturing she did with the boys behind my back, and while I won't play tit-for-tat, I will ensure that I manage my own press wisely.
We are writing slow because we know you read slow.
[and yes I realize "slow" is not an adverb but I am trying not to use big words for you]
Yeah Pio,
And don't think I don't f*cking appreciate it. For I am slow as molasses in Janurary. It's okay. I get my second stupid followup MRI on Thursday and maybe I won't have to not understand anymore. I don't really care. I am wasted anyway.
Todd, I just realized that Thursday is a big day for both of us--it's my 4th wedding anniversary...yay! What a day that's going to be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I'm glad you're feeling well today. Have you talked to your sons yet?
MB has been running slow for me all day today. I thought it was just me. Glad it's not.
It went pretty well. It wasn't a glamourous date by any means...it shouldn't even be called a date. We went for fast food...good ole Taco Bell! Conversation was fine, he teased me and we flirted. We did have minor relationship talk. I know I broke my ban, but he started it, not me!
Something was mentioned about our conversation last week about him moving back in. He said he didn't want to because sleeping on the couch would get uncomfortable. I told him he wouldn't have to sleep on the couch. He said he would have to, because if he slept with me in our bed, he would want to cuddle all the time and that would send mixed signals. I told him that I think he already has mixed signals. He said, "what do you mean?". I told him that I didn't think he knew what he wanted. He said I was right, but when he told me he was cheating on me, he expected me to want a divorce and when I said I would take him back, he hadn't prepared himself for that. So I went on to tell him that it wasn't the A that concerned me so much as the reasons why he felt he needed to cheat on me. I told him I don't blame myself for him cheating, it was 100% his doing, but we were both to blame for the problems in our M and doing nothing about it. I told him that I didn't want us to back into the same M we had before, I wanted to start all over in a new M with him and make it better than it was before. He seemed open to it, but didn't say much. That was about all we said.
He did up spending the night again. I asked him as we were falling asleep if he's given any thought to Thursday (our anniversary) and he said "not yet". I said "OK" and left it at that. I don't know what he meant by that, but that's OK.
He's not officially back, but I don't think it'll take too much longer (how's that for positive, BK?).
Actually - that's just such a brilliant conversation. Excellent. I am thrilled about that.
REALLY???? Yay, I'm glad I could make you proud! I was thinking about you the whole time we were having the conversation wondering if I needed to shut my mouth and if I was going to be yelled at later...you are worse than my mom!
An exit affair is where one spouse has mentally checked out of the marriage and either consciously or subconsciously decides that having an A is an automatic ticket out. No messy fighting or hard feelings. WS decides that when BS finds out, it will all be over - quick and (from their POV) relatively painless. The OP could be anyone - just the person most convenient. It is much easier than going through the long drawn out process of discussing unhappiness, incompatibility, etc. It is a bit different than a romantic affair or a ONS.
I told him I don't blame myself for him cheating, it was 100% his doing, but we were both to blame for the problems in our M and doing nothing about it. I told him that I didn't want us to back into the same M we had before, I wanted to start all over in a new M with him and make it better than it was before.
That is great Stef. Very good IMO. And you didn't piss him off.
Not young lady. What do you mean by "not exactly" Kinda like "only a little bit pregnant" Hmm.
An exit affair is what someone has in the hope that it will end the relationship. You've confused him Stef.
BigK to answer your question regarding where I live. I live in San Diego. It is a glorious spot south of LA. You mentioned going to Universal Studios, we are about a three to four hour drive from there. Depending on the traffic of course but you will hear that regularly over here and will soon learn to try and dodge peak hour traffic.
San Diego has a glorious harbor. It is home port for the US Navy Pacific Fleet. There is so much to see here. Sea World, San Diego Zoo, the Wild Animal Park, Coronado Island. You can go to Old Town San Diego which is a state historic park that recreates life from the Mexican/American era from 1821-1872, there are 5 original adobes that have been restored. We have incredible restaurants, beautiful beaches etc.etc. Of course you can easily go into Tijuana Mexico also by car or trolley or walk across. TJ is a fun spot to visit and well worth the trip, plus it doesn't hurt anyone to see how lucky we all are. It still breaks my heart to go there and see their living conditions. (There, I can keep myself nice and not let my H spoil TJ for others!)
If you can come down here you certainly will not be sorry. Can you tell I LOVE my home town? If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. I will help in any way that I can with the LA part of your trip.
I owe you a huge apology. I could list the reasons why I was in such a funk but it doesn't matter. Your joking with me was within the realm of many things we have said before. The difference lies in my reaction. I think you know what our friendship means to me. I am sorry for the supid and offense post.
Group, likewise, my apologies. Please forgive me. For someone who prides himself on being positive, I truly fell off the wagon.
Yes, three weeks is not long enough but you are lucky to have that much time. I have people tell me they are going to Australia and New Zealand and have an entire ten days to do it in !!! Hope they liked the airports.... but I think you get much longer vacations.
ToddAC,
One thing that enticed me to this thread was the love and compassion that is mixed in with all the banter. I am sorry you have had a rough day, your friends will understand just as you would.
there are 5 original adobes that have been restored
Another oxymoron.
nams,
Actually I am finding that there is a hole subculture dedicated to finding the right glaze mix, experimenting with additives, kiln temperature and oxygen ratio. Some seem to treat it as more important than the work itself.
Do you think I can get an Easy Bake oven hot enough to fire ceramic? If so, I'll start experimenting. I've only ever tried brownies in one and they took about 4 days to bake.
Occidental Petroleum (Oxy for short) started a project in Yemen years ago and I worked with a team of their engineers to scope out an "artificial lift" infrastructure. They were a difficult group to work with. It was my first experience with "oxy-morons".
I think you need to talk to Todd in regards to the Easy Bake, he seems to be the resident expert on heat/fires.
DS3 has always made a Christmas wish list. One year, I read his list and he had included an Easy Bake oven. I got it for him. Well, Santa did. The Easy Bake oven actually gets very hot. We baked several cakes in the oven. The heat source is a single light bulb. Hmm... that gives me an idea.
If I had a son and that son ever requested an Easy Bake oven, it is not exactly something I would want to broadcast to the world. Some secrets are better left in the closet.
Well then considering his age at the time, I'm guessing those were Alice B. Toklas brownies he was making in that Easy Bake oven. I admire the creativity. Smart boy.
Do you remember the Seinfeld where Jerry had a girlfriend with a vintage toy collection including an Easy Bake oven? They kept feeding her turkey The tryptophan would put her to sleep so they could play with her toys. Elaine used the oven.
Have a good day, Pio, and wield your Shield of Good Humor well. En guard... If that doesn't work, whack 'em with your Sword of Wrath. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
At the risk of another t/j, WW and I are scheduled to have our first real talk tonight. Todd gave me a crib sheet. We'll see how it goes. I have a few deal-breakers.
I think it's impossible to t/j your own thread. When you do it yourself, it's called "giving necessary direction." Good luck on the talk. You may need the Sword and the Shield both, before you're done.
Well I used to think that but learned that I was mistaken. I have since learned that this is not my thread either. In fact, I am thinking of starting one. Some people do not allow us to discuss infidelity because it is depressing. Actually I tend to agree with that which begs the question: why is infidelity so depressing anyway? Why can't we just turn that frown upside down?
Okay t/j over. I'll update on how things went (but maybe on my own thread!)
Pio and Todd, you so often make me laugh. I want to say that I admire you both for your determination to find humor in the often-humorless life situation in which you have found yourselves. If you'd read The Sad Saga of OtherSusan the Stupid (which I realize you haven't, and am not recommending that you do), you'd know that I find this characteristic to be incredibly valuable in dealing with a difficult life. I don't know that a sense of humor makes things better. It does make them less bad...and sometimes that's the best you can do.
An exit affair is where one spouse has mentally checked out of the marriage and either consciously or subconsciously decides that having an A is an automatic ticket out. No messy fighting or hard feelings. WS decides that when BS finds out, it will all be over - quick and (from their POV) relatively painless. The OP could be anyone - just the person most convenient. It is much easier than going through the long drawn out process of discussing unhappiness, incompatibility, etc. It is a bit different than a romantic affair or a ONS.
That sounds much worse than a regular affair. Does that mean there is no hope? Since this is what he did, and why...I'm confused.
You're probably right about it though. He said it started when they started talking to each other and they both realized how unhappy they were with their spouses. Things escalated from there. And he hit me with the divorce decision about 2-3 weeks before I found out about the A.
I do, however, think he misses me more than he anticipated and he's more confused than he thought he would be.
BTW Todd, no need to be sorry...we all understand what you're going through.
So, it's the "fog" speak when he says there is an emotional bond? He told me once that she makes him happier than anyone else ever has, including me! I don't believe him and I know I'm not supposed to be listening to him, I just want to be clear...
It's just scary to think that he wanted out of our M so badly that he had to do this. It's just something else I have to understand now! *sigh* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I can't go into all the details but I think, if it is true, I would treat it as a positive rather than a negative. I'll try to go into it more in the AM if BigK doesn't get there first.
BTW Pio I had an exit A. At least that's what I'd have called it at the time. It means you don't intend to cake eat, you intend to start a new life with the OP. I thought once my H found out about it he would say, ok, that's it we're divorced. I thought it would be too insurmountable to recover from and was a way out.
When I didn't get kicked out, I rethought everything and realised my marriage was worth saving and worth fighting for.
Hi everybody....I am back and catching up on the thread.
Hi 2much,
Quote
I have to admit that my roadtrips are much better without WH.
I agree....Yeak! no WS for me...dealt 6 months with one and I was a total basketcase...was continually getting him confused with S...
...which is why I am in PLAN B...and refuse to 'engage' with WS....my terms are clear: NC with WS as long as there is contact with OW...quite a SIMPLE little rule...although not EASY to do!
Quote
my problem is there is no Radical Honesty so it pretty much takes the wind from any sailing
...my WS, OTOH, WAS radically honest...and thought THAT would then make the A OK! ...WS.....Yeak..Yeak...Yeak.... insensitive, selfish, inconsiderate...
Quote
I also feel that with the limited time we all may/maynot have we should do what is within our control to create an environment of happiness and not dwell in chronically miserable situations...
...which is why PLAN B, when faced with a WS who totally 'doesn't get it', is the only sane thing to do!
Hi Nams,
Quote
I kept thinking & asking what about the promise we made to be there for each other? What about the commitment? I truly though I could always count on that.
...same here.... one of my lowest points came when WS thought I should be glad that at least he was not 'walking out' on me by going to the cornerstore to pick up a pack of cigarettes and never came back....
...and I thought to myself...this is the standard WS is measuring himself against? ...and just for a minute.... I thought the guy who walked out and never came back may actually have been a better option.... rather than have a WS who was trying to JUSTIFY and EXCUSE his choices....and realized that I deserved better than that!
Quote
I am done. I will not R with a woman who believes she can lie her way through every problem that comes up. As DS1 said yesterday, is WW doesn’t learn from this process, she will find a new OM one of these days. I have had enough hurt at the hands of WW to last me a lifetime.
I am sorry, Todd.... please please stay away from WW....and protect yourself....just the fact that she came to pick you up while continuing to talk on the phone, to me, is a really bad sign.... no respect... I remember the feeling when I realized that my WS just didn't 'get it'..... couldn't/didn't want to see the impact of his choices on me, the boys, our friends,family....when he was basically destroying our little family.... he JUST didn't 'get it'....and it hurt soooo bad! I am sorry, Todd, I really am...
Quote
I guess you can understand my probably misplaced dislike of cell phones. My H is a pompous [censored]. The other habit my H has is to imperiously hold up a finger to get you to wait while he takes a call. One day I will bite that damn finger off.
Boy, that was a great vent. Didn't know just how much I hated cell phones.
Boy, Beth...you're catching on quick! ...
Good luck, Pio, with your 'talk'.... I agree with BigK, BTW.... if G is wanting to prove herself.... you will need to help her....by putting the dots very very close together!
one of my lowest points came when WS thought I should be glad that at least he was not 'walking out' on me by going to the cornerstore to pick up a pack of cigarettes and never came back....
...and I thought to myself...this is the standard WS is measuring himself against? ...and just for a minute.... I thought the guy who walked out and never came back may actually have been a better option.... rather than have a WS who was trying to JUSTIFY and EXCUSE his choices....and realized that I deserved better than that! ____________________________________________________________
Hi Luna! Nice to have you back! I hope all went well & your father is feeling not in too much pain.
Here's what happened with ex & him just not getting it. Oldest son went to school with a boy whose father shot his mother & her BF while they were in bed seriously injuring the mother & killing the BF. They were divorced. In a discussion with ex about the possible ramifications of D on the boys, he brings up this tragic situation saying son's friend & his siblings are doing fine, ours should be fine too. HUH? I just looked at him & wondered just how far that idjiot head of his was up his [censored].
Hi Todd, I hope Thurs. goes well for you. I know Sandi didn't see any shrinkage in her tumor for a long while yet she did see improvement in her symptoms.
Talking to your DS3 will be horrible. Emotionally the lowest part of the whole D process for me was telling the boys. It brings tears to my eys still when I think of it.
Bigk is visiting "A certain Texan"? OMG! BigK is visiting George W!!! Poor BigK & Mrs. BigK.
Hi stph, if you think the worst, prepare for the worst, you may be pleasantly surprised. If you think the lowest of the low actions your H might be capable of maybe only half will be true.
Hi Todd, I hope Thurs. goes well for you. I know Sandi didn't see any shrinkage in her tumor for a long while yet she did see improvement in her symptoms.
Hi Nams,
Thank you. I am glad that you said that because I just read a case study wherein the patient's tumor shrunk 80% by the first MRI. I have tried to adopt the attitude that it will take time but I always hold high expectations for myself, even when I don't control the outcome. Overachiever I think they call it...
I spent a few hours glazing last night & I'll be glazing more tonight. For the most part I'll be using glazes I know but I'll also be trying out some new ones. The ones I know are not guaranteed to come out but the new ones are a complete crap shoot. If I have a beautifully made piece then end up with a nasty glaze the piece either gets broken or sold for a fraction of what it could have sold for if the glaze worked out. I keep telling myself to find 6 or so reliable glazes that I like & stick to those...but that would be boring so I don't.
Some people are compulsive & will work on perfecting a glaze recipe for months. Not me, I'll give it a try or two then move on to something else if it doesn't work out.
Here's a glaze question for you. Sometimes I'll put glaze on a piece & it cracks into fines little pieces & will flake off. Another potter told me to add Karo syrup to fix that problem. She means well but I don't know...why would this work & would you expect this to have an impact on the outcome?
I fire to about 2500/2600 degrees F for a glaze firing. If you put a 100 watt bulb in your easy bake I'll bet you'll get there just keep the DDs away.
Stef - Don't get hung up on the exit affair thing. Sheesh you worry far too much. He's confused as he11 right now - he thought you would disolve your marriage and didn't. He's re-evaluating, likes spending time with you, rings you for no reason and constantly tries to get his leg over. This is all good Stef.
Nams, I wish I knew your marriage history. You are always so postitive and pleasant you make me feel guilty for not being so. I keep on telling myself that if the ladies on this thread can get through this so well - then so can I.
Todd, I am sure you know that you cannot compare yourself to case studies but I understand you doing so. I think I read way too much and listened to way too many people about my own problem and ended up totally confused. Add in second opinions I was advised to get and it turned into a seething mess in my brain. In the end I stuck with one doctor in each specialty and just listened to them and followed their advise.
Todd, I asked you a few days ago why you would not consider chemotherapy. I guess it is an option for you and you voted against it. Maybe you missed my question on this busy board ? If you just don't wish to reply then feel free to ignore me again. lol
Todd, I am sure you know that you cannot compare yourself to case studies but I understand you doing so. I think I read way too much and listened to way too many people about my own problem and ended up totally confused. Add in second opinions I was advised to get and it turned into a seething mess in my brain. In the end I stuck with one doctor in each specialty and just listened to them and followed their advise.
I agree. I have a great team of doctors at this point. The neurologist is a little weird but most of them seem to be, lol. Comes with the territory I suppose.
Quote
Todd, I asked you a few days ago why you would not consider chemotherapy. I guess it is an option for you and you voted against it. Maybe you missed my question on this busy board ? If you just don't wish to reply then feel free to ignore me again. lol
Beth, I missed it. I have never seen anyone who benefited from chemo. It makes people very ill and then they die. They may be exceptions. Also, the delivery to a brain tumor is reasonably complicated because of a phenomenom called the "brain blood barrier". There are ways around this obviously but my understanding is that chemo is not as effective on brain tumors as other tumor types.
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so forgive me if you've already said something about this doctor or this program. But, have you consulted with Dr. Henry Friedman at Duke? I saw a "60 Minutes" story about him a few years ago and he seemed very open to all sorts of options that mainstream oncologists don't know about or aren't willing to try.
Well you have made me laugh, first time today too, so thank you. I had chemo but I refuse to die. Don't feel badly, I am thick skinned and have heard far worse and I did ask you! I am going to be one of your exceptions.
I do want to tell you that I know nothing about brain tumors and their treatment. But mainly I wanted to let you know that chemo. has improved greatly since the old horror stories. I never want to do it again but I am grateful for it. I hated the loss of all my hair and yes I mean all of it including eye brows, female vanity I know. But - it grows back !! Actually I didn't look so bad bald.
Mainly Todd I just wanted to let you know that it is not so bad - honest !
Thanks again for the laugh I seriously still have a smile on my face.
Todd, Just catching up. Took a loooong time since MB is really slow today. Good Luck on Thursday. Please let us know how you are feeling. I also think your WW is still in denial. It might take a long time but eventually I think everybody can have an awakening (even if only at the end). I see with my WH. He acknowledges only as much as I know (and can prove/ find out) and then denies the rest. He even comments about other people's relationships as if nothing had happened to us. I look at him and wonder...
Pio, I hope G stops hurting you and see the risk she is taking of losing you and her family. You know that eventually you will be OK, find someone you love and really deserves you. But if she misses this opportunitty that you're giving her, giving her background, it will make her life a real mess.
Stef, I read your date story. Congrats. It's tough but you are getting to WH. I went through something similar in the beginning. He was always looking at me surprised that I was still willing to work in the M.
Now, I guess I'm getting tired, less patient (I know Pio). But anything he does/ not do sets me off. Maybe I should take some AD.
This was sent to me today, I found it a chuckle so I will post it here to compensate for my serious post.
Men Are Just Happier People-- What do you expect from such simple creatures?
Your last name stays put. The garage is all yours. Wedding plans take care of themselves. Chocolate is just another snack. You can be President.
You can never be pregnant. You can wear a white T-shirt to a water park. You can wear NO shirt to a water park. Car mechanics tell you the truth. The world is your urinal. You never have to drive to another gas station restroom because this one is just too icky.
You don't have to stop and think of which way to turn a nut on a bolt. Same work, more pay. Wrinkles add character. Wedding dress $5000. Tux rental-$100. People never stare at your chest when you're talking to them. The occasional well-rendered belch is practically expected. New shoes don't cut, blister, or mangle your feet. One mood all the time.
Phone conversations are over in 30 seconds flat. You know stuff about tanks. A five-day vacation requires only one suitcase. You can open all your own jars. You get extra credit for the slightest act of thoughtfulness. If someone forgets to invite you, he or she can still be your friend.
Your underwear is $8.95 for a three-pack. Three pairs of shoes are more than enough. You almost never have strap problems in public. You are unable to see wrinkles in your clothes. Everything on your face stays its original color. The same hairstyle lasts for years, maybe decades.
You only have to shave your face and neck. You can play with toys all your life. Your belly usually hides your big hips. One wallet and one pair of shoes -- one color for all seasons. You can wear shorts no matter how your legs look. You can "do" your nails with a pocket knife. You have the freedom of choice concerning growing a mustache. You can do Christmas shopping for 25 relatives on December 24 in 25 minutes.
I have not consulted with Dr. Friedman. Coincidentally, I did consult with an endocrinologist at Duke a few years ago. I had just been diagnosed with diabetes. Turns out, the hormonal imbalances caused by the tumor caused the diabetes but of course, I did not know it at that time. Since my hormone therapy, my diabetes has gone away. My sugar readings have been in the normal range since the beginning of the year.
Anyway, I had heard about a endocrinologist at Duke and made an appointment to visit her. She graduated first in her Harvard class and was absolutely incredible. I paid for two hours to do nothing but sit down in a conference room and ask her a million question. It cost me a small fortune but was well worth it. Duke Medical Center is incredible.
I did see a couple of neruologists and a radiation oncologist at Emory. I also had some therapy there but the insurance company did not want to pay because Emory is not on their list. I guess their deal was not good enough.
...and I thought to myself...this is the standard WS is measuring himself against? ...and just for a minute.... I thought the guy who walked out and never came back may actually have been a better option
Okay now that's just plain funny. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Do you know anything about Dr. Friedman? He's supposed to be amazing. People come to him after being given up on by their own oncologists and he gives them hope. I'd rather see someone that good BEFORE that point... Anyway, might be worth doing some googling to see if he looks like an option. NC isn't that far away from Atlanta.
Men Are Just Happier People-- What do you expect from such simple creatures?
Do you actually have a point or are you just stating the obvious? BTW, I take exception to the "garage" comment. In my DREAMS maybe. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well, you know some men have their vanity about them as well. In truth, I would consider chemo but it will take me getting over the hump. I think they like to start it right after radiation but I am not sure. Anyway, depends on Thursday's MRI also.
One thing having cancer taught me was to laugh at any chance you get. At the start of summer my hair was about a half inch long, I wore a wig sometimes but it was also very hot so went without as soon as I could. My middle son came home and told me that some of his school friends thought I was a lesbian because of my short hair. We all had to look for humor lurking in many unusaul places, sometimes it was hard to find though specially for my children.
I will be thinking of you on Thursday and wishing you well but remember not every body works at the same pace.
My H would be in total agreement with you about the garage! We have a three car garage and can only fit one in there at a pinch.
My personal favorites were the world being your urinal, I've always envied men that ability. Plus the mustache and knowing stuff about tanks. I bet the men on here know stuff about tanks!
How is it going with you wife? How are your girls?
Time to cook dinner. Back later if the boys don't hog the computer all night. Beth
I bought a new Easy Bake oven today. I was so excited. The heat source is a 100 watt bulb. Me being the logical fellow I am, I decided that if a 100 watt bulb is good, a 200 watts bulb would be better. Twice better in fact. Then it hit me: if 200 watts is better, why not 400 watts? I drilled a hole in the side of the EB oven. I dismantled one of the lamps in my suite and threaded the light housing through the side of the oven. I exchanged the existing light bulb for another 200 watt bulb. My heart was racing with anticipation.
I bought a box of Duncan Hines cake mix. Yellow cake with the frosting included. Little colored sprinkles to put on top of the frosting. I mixed everything just like the box said. I put it into the oven and set it for 2 hours. I figured that should be long enough.
This time, however, I finally got smart. I moved the EB oven to the bathroom and closed the door. No smoke detector in there. At the one hour mark, I decided to check on the cake. Not good. Not good at all. The cake mix box had burst into flames. I unplugged the oven and poured water all over the outside of it.
The box was burned all the way through. The eggs, well, the shells were cracked. I guess they couldn't take the heat. The frosting was like a thin liquid. The sugar had caramelized, the one bright spot. Apparently, 400 watts was too much for the box.
I can add one more to the list. At concerts, we don't have to stand in line to get into the men's room. At least we didn't used to have to stand in line.
Locally, there is Chastain Park which contains an ampitheater. They have a fantastic summer concert series which every concert sells out. Apparently, the ladies room facility is too small for all the ladies so there is always a long line. Well, womens being the clever gender that they are, started using the men's room. Oh, just a few at first. Then the floodgates opened. Guys, being exhibitionists at heart, really don't mind. Instead of facing the urinal quietly doing their business, they now face the urinal from the side and yell, "hey, look at me." Most of the women do. This is all based on stories I have heard. Of course. But that goes without saying.
So one guy, who had a few beers too many, decided what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. He went into the ladies room. It is my understanding that he gets out of jail next May. Double standard. Maybe it's because the men would never complain. We are flexible that way.
Stef - Don't get hung up on the exit affair thing. Sheesh you worry far too much. He's confused as he11 right now - he thought you would disolve your marriage and didn't. He's re-evaluating, likes spending time with you, rings you for no reason and constantly tries to get his leg over. This is all good Stef.
Hey!! I don't worry too much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I've never heard of this exit affair-thing. I didn't know there were different "types" of affairs, other than a PA and an EA.
And I'm very frustrated that he's confused, because I know if he would admit to his feelings, he would want to work on our M. I know he's still in love with me. It all goes back to my impatience.
I also think it's kinda funny that he wasn't prepared for me to want to save the M. He's known me for 7 years, he knows how stubborn and hard-headed I am...
Don't sweat it Stef - you are doing marvelously even if you don't see the instant result you want.
Thanks! That's because I'm a marvelous person with marvelous advice and WH would be a fool to leave me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
OW's got nothing on me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Want to tell me I'm negative anymore? LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Oh Todd, you must know that womens in the men's room just need to go while a man in the women's room is a pervert.
Where you went wrong with the easy back oven is by doing it yourself VS having DS come over & bake you a cake.
Hi larousse!
Beth, here's my story, the very short version:
Me 49 (just) ex is 43. When we married he was 21. We were married 21 years & have three boys 15, 12, 11. Been divorced since Jan. '06 I had difficulty getting pregnant. Tried for 4 years before 1st child was born, had fertility treatments for the second, third was a pleasant surprise.
We had difficulties like any couple however as conflict avoiders we didn't resolve them. Thought I'd solved a major one, things seemed to be going fairly well. Three & a half years ago I come home from the pottery studio one night ex tells me he wants to D. I fall apart, find this site, start to see an IC.
A few months later ex decides he'll stay to see if he can fall back in love with me. We begin our fake recovery or as I now refer to it as the Who is My Soul Mate game. I suspect an affair but he denies. We see a bad marriage counselor she asks about an affair, he denies. I do some checking but I can't get phone records because he has a co. phone. He has a lot of independent behaviors & is having a MLC that had been in the works for a while.
Almost one year to the day after first saying he wants to D he says he wants to go through with it. ex never admitted to an affair so I don't have absolute proof but he did move in with gf 2 weeks after the D was final & had introduced our boys to gf about 2 or 3 months after moving out for a separation, really working on D. He has worked with her for years. Ask whatever you want.
I am, I decided that if a 100 watt bulb is good, a 200 watts bulb would be better. Twice better in fact. Then it hit me: if 200 watts is better, why not 400 watts? I drilled a hole in the side of the EB oven.
You make us all proud! Right On dude!
Quote
I moved the EB oven to the bathroom and closed the door. No smoke detector in there.
Don't FAA regulations require you to put a smoke detector in the bathroom? In fact, even tampering with it is a no-no.
Wait....did you mix it all in the cake mix box and put the box in the oven? I think I see the problem.
So, BigK will you be bar b qing with George W while in Texas? From your description, "A certain Texan" what else are we to think? GWB was born in CT BTH & his family has ties to the town I grew up in. As a matter of fact while I was at the hospital in that town visiting my sweet father Bush was a prominant name on the donation plaque. My point? Bush is a wanna be Texan. Aquanet anyone? I think I'm catching a wiff.
I am suro the Karo guy spent months pouring everything he could find in his kitchen into his glaze. Hey - it worked for Thomas Edison.
As for Karo, isn't it essentially sugar water? The sugar would break down chemically at high kiln temperatures and become not much more than a carbon source (an impurity). I see where some people actually use carbon in their glazes for nice effects. It is the water that would concern me (no experience talking). Water could chemically react with the glaze to some extent but not much. Either the water would flash off during the firing or end up greating tiny little bubble in the hardened glaze. If the glaze is water-based, it should be fine but I don't see too many high temperature thermoset compounds based on water. Too volatile. So the glaze is probably solvent-based and it just depends on the type of solvent as to whether it would get on well with water or not.
I think BK and Ms. BK are going to a Aquanet get together. Some of the conferences are about:
-How to lacque your wood fourniture with Aquanet -How to protect yourself in a lonely Houston street with Aquanet -How to make your Christmas tree angels shinny with Aquanet Extra Plus -How to put a lighter to an Aquanet can and kill your enemies.
:::::::::::::
BK if you really want to see a nice country, bring a koala and I sponsor Ms. BK and trip to Mexico !
All the glazes I use are water based. We buy the chemicals in powered form, mix them together then add water to a consistency resembling thick cream for most glazes. When we fire most work is has dried from the glazing but not all. The temp rises to 800 to 1000 fairly quickly, in about an hour. It goes up more slowly after that.
I like to slow cool (ramp down the cooling process in stages) my work to make the matt glazes become more matt VS shinny, why does that work?
I think aquanet is the official perfume, lacquer, bug spray & paint remover of Texas!
Has your BF gotten over his car problems & returned to being a love? Did he kill any of those dear that have been hounding him for corn to make jerky yet?
Free range, corn fed, dear jerky. I wonder if that's good for you?
Pio, interesting you say water would cause little bubbles (we call them pin holes) in a hardening glaze. Pin holes can be a real problem with some glazes. I always thought it was due to cooling the temp. to fast. The glaze hasn't had a chance to heal itself, continue to flow & smooth over, before it hardens.
Don't sweat it Stef - you are doing marvelously even if you don't see the instant result you want.
Thanks! That's because I'm a marvelous person with marvelous advice and WH would be a fool to leave me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
OW's got nothing on me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Want to tell me I'm negative anymore? LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Scratch all this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
This will be quick & I could very easily be wrong but I think I see a pattern. You are giving, especially in a physical way, I don't mean sex, & your H takes advantage then scurries away. He gets a fix then decides that's not what he wants.
I can see how cooling rate could cause microbubbles easily enough. It is a really problem in any solvent system but can just as easily be caused by heating too rapidly. For example, the glaze might polymerize through an esterification reaction. The is a type of chemical reaction that gives off water as a by-product. When you heat the glaze up, a chemical reaction takes place and the solvent that kept your glaze liquid has to go away. But if the glaze sets up too quickly, it can trap bubbles or microbubbles of solvent within the matrix and they are essentially there forever unless the glaze cracks and allows them to escape.
As an example, in my past life, we used solvent based varnish systems on motor windings. We used to heat the motor from the outside in and if we did that too fast, the varnish would start to cure and trap solvent pockets within the winding. Once the varnish formed a shell around the bubble, no amount of heat or time would free the solvent. One characteristic of esterification reactions is that they are always reversible (i.e. add water and the polymer breaks down). So the solvent trapped in the winding varnish would slowly dissolve it with time. We experimented with solventless systems but they proved to be uneconomic because they made the motors impossible to repair. So we instead went to a controlled rate of heating and we heated the motors from the inside out. That drove the solvent out of the varnish before it had a chance to set.
As far as glossy vs. matte, I expect that is just a surface phenomenon whereby the layers of glaze shrink at different rates. Keep in mind that your pottery piece is probably shrinking too and the glaze has to shrink with it. Then if you could look at a cross-section of the glaze itself, you would see it as layers with each layer shrinking at its own rate. If there is a big difference between shrink rate between layers, a lot of stress is built up placing layers in tension/compression which will likely cause them to deform. If the glaze is really hard, you can cool it fast enough so that the glaze becomes stronger than the internal force.
Think about how glass is made compared to safety glass. Regular glass is heated to form the glass and then cooled very slowly. it is very fragile. Safety glass is quenched very quickly so that the glass in the middle of the pane is still hot (and expanded) while the oustides of the glass is cool (and shrunk). As the inner part of the glass cools, it tries to shrink but can't because the glass on the outside is already hardened and won't allow it. So this need to shrink places the outer layers of the glass in tremendous compression making them very tough. Once that outer layer is scratched, however, the glass will shatter into a billion pieces if hit hard enough. So it is not just chemistry. Heating and cooling rate will have a significant affect on the final result.
BTW, did you know that glass is technically not a solid? It is actually a super-cooled liquid.
Do you fire your pieces and then glaze them or do you do it all in one shot?
[and stph thinks SHE can bring a thread down - HA!]
I did know that about Glass. I knew some people who had a real old thick glass door. It was noticably thicker at the bottom. The glass flowed over the years.
Continuing what I started last night, I doubt your H ever sat down one day and asked himself "what's the easiest way out of my M? Hey, I know! and affair!". But it is interesting that, at some point, he did come to the conclusion that you would automatically want a divorce. Put that in context. I am sure my WW never ver had that thought. She was caught up in the moment. She never thought about divorce, exposure, being caught, etc. She just enjoyed the affair. It was a magic bubble that protected her from the real world.
I imagine that your WH is in love with OW because he is happy with her. But he could just as easily be that happy with a billion other women. There is nothing really special about this one. No "soulmate". She is convenient because she provides happiness and (so he thought) gives him an express ticket out of the marriage. Well you didn't play by the rules. He assumed that if he wanted out of the M and you must have wanted the same thing. In short, his decisions were driven more by convoluted logic than emotion.
I simply think that it is much easier to kill that kind of an affair and change his way of thinking than to kill the romantic affair. If it was an exit affair, that brings the balance even further back to the M provided you are doing a really good Plan A.
Continuing what I started last night, I doubt your H ever sat down one day and asked himself "what's the easiest way out of my M? Hey, I know! and affair!". But it is interesting that, at some point, he did come to the conclusion that you would automatically want a divorce. Put that in context. I am sure my WW never ver had that thought. She was caught up in the moment. She never thought about divorce, exposure, being caught, etc. She just enjoyed the affair. It was a magic bubble that protected her from the real world.
I imagine that your WH is in love with OW because he is happy with her. But he could just as easily be that happy with a billion other women. There is nothing really special about this one. No "soulmate". She is convenient because she provides happiness and (so he thought) gives him an express ticket out of the marriage. Well you didn't play by the rules. He assumed that if he wanted out of the M and you must have wanted the same thing. In short, his decisions were driven more by convoluted logic than emotion.
I simply think that it is much easier to kill that kind of an affair and change his way of thinking than to kill the romantic affair. If it was an exit affair, that brings the balance even further back to the M provided you are doing a really good Plan A.
Well, that makes more sense now than it did this morning! Thanks for explaining it better for me, Pio. I still don't like it, but I get it now.
I sound really stupid tonight, but I've had a horrible day and I'm exhausted.
This will be quick & I could very easily be wrong but I think I see a pattern. You are giving, especially in a physical way, I don't mean sex, & your H takes advantage then scurries away. He gets a fix then decides that's not what he wants.
OK, nams is supposed to be in bed, so can someone explain this to me too? I don't get it.
Keep in mind I'm really, really tired and not really this stupid!
No, actually I'm a true brunette believe it or not!
I'm just very tired. I've been working A LOT lately and I just got a promotion so I have more responsiblity than I did and today was a very bad day for me, and I'm TIRED.
I can't even really blame it on that...I tend to be ditzy on a normal day...I probably shouldn't admit that on a national forum...
BTW, I think you should come to Illinois on your vacation next year! There's not much here but a bunch of corn, but that can be interesting...if you squint your eyes really tight and try really hard...
Wait....did you mix it all in the cake mix box and put the box in the oven? I think I see the problem.
I know it must sound obvious now but at the time, these were the instructions on the back of the box:
"Duncan Hines has included a newly designed box which makes it possible to mix the ingredients in the box. You never have to dirty a bowl!" It goes on to say mix the ingredients and then "put the mix into a generously greased 13" X 9" pan and bake at 325 F for 25-30 minutes".
Now note, it never says to remove the mix from the box. I called Proctor and Gamble to point out the error in their instructions. They said that it should be obvious that one should pour the mix from the box and not merely lay the box into the pan. Then she asked me what kind of oven I had. Hmm.... never anticipated having to tell them that. But, secure in my manhood, I told her an Easy Bake oven. I don't like being laughed at if I am the only one not laughing. I really got mad. She felt so badly (right) that she is sending me a certificate for a year's supply of Duncan Hines cakemix. And oh yeah, a six pack of light bulbs.
Fortuntely, I have plenty of room for improvement.
I think you might be tired - try going to bed and sleeping.
Quote
I can't even really blame it on that...I tend to be ditzy on a normal day...I probably shouldn't admit that on a national forum...
International forum Stef.
Quote
BTW, I think you should come to Illinois on your vacation next year! There's not much here but a bunch of corn, but that can be interesting...if you squint your eyes really tight and try really hard...
Love to go to IL - I have some other MB friends there as well but I just can't fit it all in unfortunately.
Now note, it never says to remove the mix from the box. I called Proctor and Gamble to point out the error in their instructions.
This reminds me of the case where an Oklahoma Sooner fan bought a Winnebago so he could travel and see all the games. Of course he thoroughly reads the owner's manual as we all do when we buy a vehicle (riiiiggghhtt) His first weekend he gets on the road, puts the vehicle on cruise control and goes to the back to make himself a cup of coffee.
After he wakes up from the coma and after several months of painful physical therapy, he hires a lawyer to sue Winnebago for not stating in the owner's manual that it is necessary to remain behind the wheel when the vehicle is placed on cruise control (he thought it was auto-pilot). Anyway, he won almost two million dollars in damages as well as a new Winnebago (and Winnebago quickly modified their owner's manuals).
So, if you play your cards right, you could sue both Duncan Hines AND Easy Bake. (Go for the deep pockets).
Er, I actually don't know if it's inspiring. I don't understand the words.
Well my french is a little rusty but here goes:
Let us leave, children of the fatherland Our day of retreat has arrived. Against us comes tyranny, The bloody flag is raised, The bloody flag is raised. Do you hear in the countryside The roar of these savage soldiers They come at us with arms To cut the throats of your sons, your country.
To flight, citizens! Form up your retreat Let us march, Let us march! Lest our weak bladders Should water our fields
Sacred love of the fatherland Guide and support our fearful flight. Liberty, lost liberty, Flight with your defenders; Flight with your defenders. Under our flags, we shall hide Will gush your manly stains; Lest your terrifying enemies Should see your cowardice
To flight, citizens! Form up your retreat Let us march, Let us march! Lest our weak bladders Should water our fields
Pio, a glaze question. If I add rutile, in granular form to a glaze what can I expect to happen?
AFAIK rutile (titanium dioxide) is an extremely stable compound and at kiln temperatures would represent nothing more than inclusions suspended within the glaze matrix. I can't see it reacting with the glaze itself because the titanium is completely oxidized and therefore not very reactive chemically. My guess is that it would give it an opalescent quality. I think it is highly reflective and would cause light to be reflected as well as refracted on a microscale as compared to the whole piece. I think rutile is what makes white golf balls so white which represents the extent of my personal interest in the mineral. The amount of rutile you added to the glaze would significantly vary the appearance IMHO.
The amount of rutile you added to the glaze would significantly vary the appearance IMHO. _______________________________________________________
Would or wouldn't significantly vary the appearance?
What I was hoping would happen with the addition of rutile is the glazes that tend to have a flat (single, all the same color finsh not matt), shoe polish look would gain a variegated appearance, more depth, creating more interest.
What's up with G? Did you two have your talk about the expectations for recovery?
stph, I guess I'm saying your H is using you. He seeks the familiar, yet he craves the excitment of the new. So when you guys spend the night together & cuddle or do some "stuff", not citicizing just my opinion, he gets his familar fix then goes in search of the new.
Keep in mind I was unable to break up my ex's suspected affair so what I did couldn't be considered a proper plan A. You seem to be in a better position for that because your H's affair has been exposed.
To say you won't put up with the lies & hurt of infidelity is entirely up to you. Wanting your WH back is a choice & the steps to that are not filled with love for the WH.
I'm not a potter so i don't really know what effect you will get but my suspicion is that you will find rutile highly reflective. Have you thought of something like talc?
If it is surface finish you are after, I am wondering if there may not be some type of surfactant that would work. A surfactant should concentrate on top of the glaze and not mix too much within it.
How did the trip go? How is your dad ? I'm sorry I do not recall what you said was wrong with him but I sure hope he is doing well. Are you exhausted?
...
How did your children handle the trip?
Geesh, Beth....thanks for your very warm welcoming post!
Don't worry about the details....there are too many around here...my dad has/had colon cancer....(got to see diagram given to mom from doctor)...saw exactly which section was removed back in August to remove the two tumors they had found....but his wound is not healing and he has a nurse visiting every morning to check on the wound....when healed...he will undertake about a six months weekly chemo. pills (his veins are not up to it)...but the effects are the same...he can expect to be sick as a dog the first few days after taking them...loss of hair...etc etc. I guess you know what I am talking about!
Yes, my dad is quite worried...he lost his sister to cancer.... he is 75 yrs old and is not looking forward to the next coming year..
My mom is as chirpy as ever...now even more so to compensates for dad....and must have been cooking for a week....because I took back at least a week's worth of meals.... my brother and his family joined us for a big Sunday dinner..... dad was very emotional and often left the table....because....of the obvious....could be the last meal together...
I enjoy travelling with my boys...found that out with our trip to NYC... things went smoothly going... but wanted to leave early Monday morning, like 8am....but didn't leave until 3pm...and I was lucky!
The car would not start....tried to boost it with dad's car....nothing....the Greek neighbour cleaned the battery 'heads'....thought they may be too 'dirty' for contact... tried again....nothing....another neighbour while waiting had the need to tell me that he thought it courageous of me to take on such a long trip on my own (meaning without H!)....bssss bssssbssss...... I can already see the gossip going around the neighbourhood.... had me almost regret my decision!
Finally had to call a towing truck (and I learned that the car is rear-wheel drive...that tells you how much of a mechanic I am!)...got car picked up...took to dad's garage...dad going back and forth...coordinating his nurse's visit with the 'wait' at the garage!.....GAWD!
The battery was totally dead because the starter...which was the problem...totally drained it with our trying to start!
Anyway...so we now have to wait for the part to arrive.....after a couple of hours.....could not find a new replacing starter...needed to 'rebuild' the one I had (uhmmmm...car not a recent model!)......and yes.....they knew 'madam' had a long drive ahead of her and they were doing their best to get it ASAP! ....put in a totally new battery.....even though they could 're-charge' my old....not taking any chances!
Anyway....by 2pm the car was set to go.....dad insisted on 'paying'.....but but but...could not find his wallet!..... now...were you to know my dad....he is super-organized...never loses anything...is never late anywhere.... already stressing out about sending off his only daughter late on the road....anyway....we did eventually find his wallet...he paid....his way of doing his part since WS 'checked out' of his daughter's life..... and I was....as I had never been before.... literally fuming from anger!
I think this is what you mean, Beth....warning, venting ahead:
....WS 'checking out' of his responsibilities as a husband, father, and son-in-law, among other things... has meant re-distributing 'parts' of it to everyone, beginning with myself, the boys, friends, and extended family in an attempt to 'make up' for WS's absence...now..I chose to marry the man....and I am willing to take 'whatever' crap comes my way as a result of my choices of a partner in life.....but my parents practically adopted WS and welcomed him with open arms and respected my choices in life..... but when I saw my dad....having paid his 'dues'....and should have been quitely resting at his home waiting for the nurse to take of him..... stressing around about my car... his lost wallet.... I WAS SO MAD.... at myself for not having taken the time to learn more about 'cars' and for having left it all to WS...and so now found myself slightly 'helpless'..... and because it was dad's turn to be 'taken care of'.....
....PLAN B is not for WS....it is for BS.....because had WS been anywhere around.....I would now be in jail!
Anyway....as soon as I got home...called parents so they no longer had to worry about me being on the road late at night...and possibly getting stuck who knows where with car troubles!
The last hour of driving was tough...the boys were cheering me on.....it allowed my 15-yr-old to do some lobbying for him to have a driver's permit as soon as he hits 16!
"mon dos est en compote!" ....more or less....it means that my back is one big 'mush'.....think I will consider a massage soon.....
...but I did not regret the trip....the boys got a chance to be spoiled by their 'nonna'.....that alone was worth the trip!
Quote
Yes, I discovered venting while you were gone. I read my post now and can't believe I said what I did but it sure felt good at the time.
I'm brewing a really good vent at the moment. I just have to find the right emotional state to post it.
....don't worry...you will see..it will get easier with time ...LOL!
stph, I guess I'm saying your H is using you. He seeks the familiar, yet he craves the excitment of the new. So when you guys spend the night together & cuddle or do some "stuff", not citicizing just my opinion, he gets his familar fix then goes in search of the new.
Keep in mind I was unable to break up my ex's suspected affair so what I did couldn't be considered a proper plan A. You seem to be in a better position for that because your H's affair has been exposed.
To say you won't put up with the lies & hurt of infidelity is entirely up to you. Wanting your WH back is a choice & the steps to that are not filled with love for the WH.
OK, thanks for explaining it to me nams.
I would say that WH is "using me" is a little harsh. I may be wrong, you may be able to see my sitch more objectively than me, but I think he's calling me, coming over, spending time with me, etc. because he's confused. He's doing these things because he wants to talk to me and be with me, but he's not sure what he wants. He wants me, I think, but he's also thinking that he had his mind made up and is now starting to change his mind and that scares him. He's trying to figure it all out. He told me the other day that he's not sure he wants to be in our M. Which means he's also not sure he wants out of our M. Right?
I think that's why Plan A is so important right now, to show him when I do talk to him and see him that I am what he wants.
You are right, I absolutely do not want WH back. I want my H back. The one that I married. WH is a stranger to me and he can go away. He's scum of the earth. H is one of the most kind, loving guys on the planet and loves me and takes care of me.
Like I said, you can probably see my sitch more clearly than I can and you may be right. Thank you for sharing your opinion nams. It gives me something else to think about.
Hello everybody...I am caught up...but definitely...when reading 10 pages at a time...details could get lost....
Let's test my memory:
Nams and Pio are into a 'hot' discussion about glazes... with Pio refusing to update us as a strategy with G. while Nams is being quite generous with her experience with ex.
Todd, while waiting for his big Thurs. appt, is trying to keep out of trouble by baking with a kid's oven.....
BigK is planning to see George B. in Texas, no no.... Dr. Phil (can't be....he's a Texan but right now living in CA).....oh...yes....now I remember.... he's gonna get his hair done...and as such there is a very well known source in that state.... just can't remember her name....but I think I can count on Larousse for that!
Beth....is trying to get into the right emotional state to vent....
Kiwi thinking that DD is OK in Las Vegas.....is obviously in denial.....
..think Estrela dropped by....not sure about Cinderella....oh yeah...it's after midnight....
oh...yes..stph20 is tired of PLAN A....and will soon D....that can't be right... PLAN A is for when you want to save M.....
....I know....some of the facts are slightly mixed up.....but like a puzzle....I know the pieces are all there!
...hope didn't miss anybody.....I know....some of you wish I had...LOL!
Bye...breaking for lunch...I think I deserve it!
...the Clairol commercial say it best....I AM WORTH IT!
Well it sounds like you had quite a trip. I am so glad that you made it home safely. Your car troubles were probably the last thing you needed but I bet it did your dad good to be able to rescue you. I am sure it would have given him a boost to think he could still manage to help his daughter and was needed and capable of fixing problems.
That is great he has a home nurse coming to him daily. If you wish I will check what was used on my wound for you, but your RN no doubt has it well under control. I wish your dad well Luna, just remember how many success stories there are these days.
I know nothing about cars except how to curse them if they will not start, so you are not on your own there. My parents are no longer with me but they too would be so disappointed in the excuse for a man that my husband has turned out to be.
Luna, I am trying to brew anger at the moment. I just feel numb most of the time. It's a horrid feeling but every now and then I feel a twinge of anger stir.
I'm still in Plan A. Everyone (even BigK) is even occasionally proud of me!
Hi stph20...thanks.
I am happy to be back 'chez moi'
I am VERY proud of you....uhmmmm....particularly considering your age.....which 'I' would rather not even discuss!
Since you have a WS on your hands, PLAN A, and added responsibilities at work....you really need to do things for YOU... and keep your Taker satisfied.... which in turn will help to NOT expect anything from a WS...
Are you doing any physical activities? (..no...I am not talking about THAT!...remember BigK's orders...more like bicycling, walking, going to the Y.... anything that will get you some fresh air and oxygen in your lungs!)
I know there is a 'discussion' going about exit affairs... let me know if ever you are curious about Romantic Affairs.....or more to the point, the effects on a family of Romantic Affairs..... that's when a WS finds THE 'soulmate' of their lives...... and cannot figure how they have lived so far without it!
...although for the record...this BS was the only one WS chose to marry AND have children with..... when up until meeting 'ME', WS SWORE he would never marry and have children!
Where's PEP....need your 'what are we?...chopped liver' sign....
OH!...
I know....what's up with 2much? Don't remember seeing a post from her in my last 'catch up' marathon!
2much???
Todd..... don't think it was a good idea advising 2much on the best cognac available..... I am holding you TOTALLY responsible if anything happens to 2much as a result of your advice..... BTW was the name again?.... it must be AWFULLY good considering how much you love the French..LOL!
Just in case some may wonder...why I would need a plumber for the furnace....and not an electrician.....
it's because my furnace runs on gaz.....and therefore needs a 'specialized' professional that is both a plumber and electrician...but mostly....plumber....
...and ever since I learned that if one's furnace is fueled by gaz.... one is literally seating on a bomb.....I thought it best to invest my money on 'high maintenance' of it..... since my knowledge of furnaces and of plumming (sp???..plumbering....???) is right up there with my knowledge of cars.....(didn't know until yesterday how important it was to know whether or not your car is front or rear-wheel drive... WELL.... apparently.... it makes a BIG difference for the towing truck....and from where it will pick it up....front or back! .....so there!)
People....particularly the guys...keep in mind that there are ladies present here....and that this is not in a men's locker room!
So....maybe this would be a good time to ask some of you 'smartie pants' about some of the technical options.... I have graduated from the 'cut and paste' and 'quoting' course.....
When my message is in the 'edit some more' box......
Post Icon are used.....when???
Instant Graemlins are used....when??
Font Color (Larousse, are you there?): do I choose them before I type the text...or do I highlight text then choose the color.....
Now....I know a few of the Instant UBB Code 'things' like QUOTE..BOLD...ITALICS....... but am not quite prepared to go the 'advanced' stage of the others left....
Now....if I post and nobody else is there..... I will respect Todd's domaine of English song lyrics and poems...
...and will have no other option but to post my favourite Italian song lyrics....
...and...as I tell my boys... this is not a threat....as I am a woman who honours her WORD....as Stephen Colbert might say!
Well...I just googled one of my 'old' favourites....MINA.....
and look what I found?......
Quote
21 agosto 2006 discografia MINA E LA LUNA: Fly me to the moon... Bum ahi! che colpo di luna... Luna lunera... La luna e il cowboy... Blue moon ... 'Na voce 'na chitarra e 'o poco 'e luna... Parole parole... Tintarella di luna...Un buco nella sabbia... Un piccolo raggio di luna... Verde luna... Full moon and empty arms... Lunarità...Mina...e la Luna. 20 agosto
Now I adore her even more!.....and yes....she sings in English....some of you might not remember my other favourite artist....LITTLE TONY.....??? see the connection???? it's called the Americanization of Europe's artistic world.... the Italian singers have been particularly vulnerable to it...oh... from way back since I can remember.....uhmmmm......1990s???
This particular song caught my attention...oh...I see....a Frank Sinatra tune.....how romantic...n'est-ce pas?
--------------------------------------- FULL MOON AND EMPTY ARMS (Rachmaninoff / Kaye / Mossman) Frank Sinatra
Full moon and empty arms The moon is there for us to share But where are you? A night like this Could weave a memory And every kiss Could start a dream for two
^Full moon and empty arms Tonight I'll use the magic moon To wish upon And next full moon If my one wish comes true My empty arms will be filled with you
Hi Luna, nice to see you back. I agree with Beth, your dad would have been so pleased to still be needed and to be able to help you out. Good for you making the trip on your own too.
DD visits the Grand Canyon today and I will be calling her again tonight. When I called their hotel I thought it would be a relief to be speaking to someone in English at last after all the months of calling hotels in Europe and struggling to make myself understood. LOL, my English was better than the person who answered the phone at the hotel.
Good morning to everyone else. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Luna, I am trying to brew anger at the moment. I just feel numb most of the time. It's a horrid feeling but every now and then I feel a twinge of anger stir.
Hi Beth...sorry...just saw your post....that's another thing....cross-posting....just when you thought you were up to date.....and going on as if all alone!
Now...since we SEEM to be all alone (the lurkers don't count!)....I was curious a little bit about your situation..... are you living with a pre-FWS or a WS? (FWS = former wayward spouse, pre-FWS means S has somewhat come to senses and wishes to work on M but with head still somewhat up in the clouds; WS = wayward spouse who wants to cake-eat...wants you and OW =Other Woman and will stop at nothing to get it!)
If I remember correctly.....it would probably be a WS....since the ISSUE of contact with OW has not been cleared up yet....
...which might explain your 'numb' feeling (maybe unlike Pio's right now)....a coping mechanism used when issue of trust is involved?
What kind of help are you getting? ...IC? ...MC? ....are your health issues behind you, or not?
Sorry....you may have answered some of these questions already..... it's the price to pay when part of a very 'anarchiste' thread!
(PS TODD...sorry...my language files get mixed up sometimes!)
I am VERY proud of you....uhmmmm....particularly considering your age.....which 'I' would rather not even discuss!
Thank you...am I really that young?...lol.
Quote
Since you have a WS on your hands, PLAN A, and added responsibilities at work....you really need to do things for YOU... and keep your Taker satisfied.... which in turn will help to NOT expect anything from a WS...
Well, thanks for pointing out all my stresses to me! j/k. I never think about everything I've got going on, I just do it. And stress about WH when I'm at home. Seems to be working for me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Are you doing any physical activities? (..no...I am not talking about THAT!...remember BigK's orders...more like bicycling, walking, going to the Y.... anything that will get you some fresh air and oxygen in your lungs!)
I know...BigK's orders suck sometimes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> It's really great excersize, which is really important right now...it burns a ton of calories!
But yes, I do take my dog for walks almost daily. That's really all I have time for with my crazy work schedule!
Quote
I know there is a 'discussion' going about exit affairs... let me know if ever you are curious about Romantic Affairs.....or more to the point, the effects on a family of Romantic Affairs..... that's when a WS finds THE 'soulmate' of their lives...... and cannot figure how they have lived so far without it!
I'm curious about all types of affairs, if you care to share. I didn't know there were different kinds. I do believe WH is having the exit A, but it would interest me to know the other kinds so I can compare. Thanks!
Quote
I know....what's up with 2much? Don't remember seeing a post from her in my last 'catch up' marathon!
Had problems with my server for the past 24-48 hours...
Welcome home Luna!
Hello Nams, Larousse, Beth, BK, KiwiJ.,Todd, Pio, Stph20 and anyone I am absentmindedly missing.
Todd I will be thinking of you tomorrow...
Pio...what is going on in the M world?
Stph...a word of caution...not from anything but experience ...sounds like you are making headway but...BEWARE of cakeeaters in H clothing...that is all I will say...
Whoever was worried about Todd making cognac recommendations...fear not I have only had 2 small servings since purchasing over a week ago...it is worth savoring...I ration it as I do Godiva chocolates
I am soooooooo dying with the amount of work, the juggling of children and trying to keep up with household chores...can't wait for my academic break next month (6 weeks off which I will probably lose my mind...) I am planning on doing lots of home improvements to get home ready to put on market in spring. Hopefully I will be able to complete my honey-do list...yeah, I'm my own honey, what can I say...I bought myself flowers this week...figure if I wait for anyone else to do the things I like for me I will be waiting till the cows come home...
I'm not going to discuss M or D until I have something positive to report or have reached a milestone...or am about to explode...which ever comes first!
Sorry I can't get into the chemical, travel or glaze discussions...beyond my scope...
Been very emotional on the inside lately but remaining calm and consistent on the outside...
My kids are awesome so no matter what I win:)
I'll check in later, must do the soccer drop and cub scouts...I'm sure when I am trying to get my ton of paperwork done later I will procrastinate by checking in!
Stef - in affairs the only thing that varies (usually) is the degree of emotional attachment. In an exit affair there is low emotional attachement. In a romantic affair/soul mate affair there is a high level of emotional attachment. Romantic affairs are FAR more dangerous to the possibility of recovery to the marriage than exit affairs.
This "affairs continuim" is explained very well in "Surviving and Affair" I hope you have read that?
Welcome back. You came back about as subtle as the north wind laying waste to a frozen corpse, lol.
Hope your Dad continues to improve.
And, you charged more up than your car battery didn't you? You sound fit to be tied. Hey, wait, didn't mean it that way....
Quote
Todd..... don't think it was a good idea advising 2much on the best cognac available..... I am holding you TOTALLY responsible if anything happens to 2much as a result of your advice..... BTW was the name again?.... it must be AWFULLY good considering how much you love the French..LOL!
The only reason I mentioned by love of cognac is because you were not here. Alas, somehow, you read all the back posts. It is the one French product I allow myself. No more tires or yogurt for me.
As for the Easy Bake oven, it is NOT a toy. I made some mods today. I removed the extra lightbulb. I baked a cake this morning and yes, this time I poured the mix from the box directly into the pan. The finished cake was a little "Pittsburg" like the steak? Burnt on the outside and gooey on the inside. Not bad, but not that good. So I removed the second light bulb and replaced the 200 watt bulb with a 125 watt bulb. Perfecto! The frosting still got very liquidily and ran all over the place. So, again, I called P&G. It turns out you are not supposed to cook the frosting with the cake mix. Men! Why don't they publish a cook book just for us? We are such helpless chaps, you know.
Anyway, my cognac advice to 2much was a reply to her request. You know the old saying: you can lead a horse to water but you cannot draw blood out of a turnip. There, I think that adequately explains my position.
And yes, psyching myself up for tomorrow's MRI. I hate MRI's. When this mess is over, I will personally hunt down the man who designed the MRI and.....well.....take out my frustration on him.
Thanks for asking me questions Luna it makes me reply! Guess I am as bad as a child sometimes and have to be cornered.
Reading the abbreviations my H is a WS but I find the terminology way too polite. Can I come up with some of my own?
My Doctors in their wisdom will not declare me cured, they prefer to remain "careful" in their prognosis. But I have decided I am cured, it is the only way to "live". I don't have my old energy back yet but I feel good. Thank you for asking.
I met with my PI again last Friday and he had some wonderful photographs for me to view all in fine sequential order. My H leaving his office, my H crossing the border, my H entering her home, my H exiting 2 hours later and the fond farewell on the doorstep. I was thinking of having that one enlarged for his desk, it can sit there beside our family portrait.
On Saturday my H and I had quite an amicable discussion. I guess I have had time now to recover from the initial shock. He informs me that he does love me and this is some strange phase he has been going through, perhaps midlife crisis? I find that a very handy excuse. Oh yes, I forgot it could also be because he did not sew enough wild oats when he was young, I nearly forgot that one. Plus, of course I was not "there"for him when I was ill.
Have I mentioned he is a lawyer? Arguments are his forte and he likes to win, he can talk in circles like no other. He will not admit to exactly when the A started, he of course doesn't want to incriminate himself unnecessarily. He also mentioned he feels responsible for the OW now and cannot desert her financially.
He really does believe I think, that I should just accept this happened. We have three wonderful sons, a great life, social acceptance, he has high aspirations etc. etc. Why would I rock the boat over this?
Have I mentioned that the love of my life has turned into a pompous, self gratifying [censored] of a man? When did social acceptance become important to him? I thought we wanted to save the world. I really do not know this man or did I just have my eyes closed to what I consider is his deterioration?
To be honest if it wasn't for our sons I would long gone.
I'm sorry, there is so much to our/his mess and I have to run to collect the youngest from school now. I will not be back until late tonight as today is my support group and I have to close up one of the stores too.
Just in case I don't get back here again today, good luck tomorrow Todd.
I guess the vent has started. Why don't I feel better? Beth.
Good luck for tomorrow Todd. The collective mind of TKO will be thinking of you. Does that mean we're all "group thinkers"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
stph, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with by saying your H is using you. I know how is sounds & it is harsh. But he is in an incredibly selfish place at the moment & is putting his wants above all else.
I'm not saying part of him doesn't want you, he certainly seems to, but he also wants to spend time with the OW therefor, I say he's using you to make himself feel better. When he needs a fix of stph he comes to you & gets some familiar comfort. This may not be a conscious effort but it is still his behavior. ((((stph))))
I'm sorry your H seems so committed to keeping his head so far up his [censored].
Gawd, when you said your H told you he hadn't sufficiently sowed his wild oats I had to laugh. ex said the same to me. When he moved out into what was his first place by himself ever the boys & I went to visit. He met us at the door with a great big smile & asked if I wanted a beer. He was so happy to be on his own he was like a giddy 20 year old. Idjiot.
And yes, psyching myself up for tomorrow's MRI. I hate MRI's. When this mess is over, I will personally hunt down the man who designed the MRI and.....well.....take out my frustration on him.
Er....good plan, Todd... good luck... do they allow 'group' support? Would we all fit in the room? If not, just 'imagine' us all there with you....right behind your handsome sons, of course....family first!
Quote
In a romantic affair/soul mate affair there is a high level of emotional attachment. Romantic affairs are FAR more dangerous to the possibility of recovery to the marriage than exit affairs.
Thanks, BigK.....you made my day!
Quote
You sound fit to be tied. Hey, wait, didn't mean it that way....
What way didn't you mean it, Todd??!!??
Quote
Reading the abbreviations my H is a WS but I find the terminology way too polite. Can I come up with some of my own?
Shoot!
Quote
But I have decided I am cured, it is the only way to "live".
You're my kind of girl, Beth!
Quote
I met with my PI again last Friday and he had some wonderful photographs for me to view...... On Saturday my H and I had quite an amicable discussion.... He also mentioned he feels responsible for the OW now and cannot desert her financially... He really does believe I think, that I should just accept this happened...
I am sooo sorry to hear this....Beth, have you thought of talking to Steve?....you could really use a plan and it seems to me you could afford his services...I think he would be really helpful in getting you to think in terms of having a PLAN... of some sort...to protect yourself...
Are you up on the Harley plans? If not, that would be the first step.....
Your WS is showing the classic signs: entitlement, selfishness, total lack of consideration for BS... and you will be reaallly hurt if you don't have a plan! ...take it from us!
Beth....you know that you will be OK? ...maybe not right now....but you will be....it's just another battle to fight!.... take it from me (and for some I will sound like a broken record) I personally was at one point classified a 'basketcase' BS..... and I don't think I am anymore (...although some may disagree!)
(((((((((((((BETH)))))))))))))
Also, to reach other MB members with experience...you might want to consider (like stph20, 2much and others) starting your own thread....(or do you have one already?)
Well I may have mentioned that we had a bit of a blowout a few nights ago. I can't remember exactly how it started but I think I posted the major content. I told WW a couple of days ago we needed to talk and that our fight had not counted. So I got home from work day before yesterday and we started the DDs making brownies with the Amazon maid and we went off to the jebels to talk.
I was surprised that, as the talk began, I was able to convince myself that divorce was again the action of choice. It was not my intent before the talk but it is pretty much where the talk was heading. I told her too much had happened for us to just play nice and pretend that this would all somehow go away. She said "everyone" told her the best thing to do would be to never talk about the A. I got made and asked who "everyone" was? Her mother? Her sister? I said that was [censored]. What she had done was beyond cruel and she had ripped my heart out and I needed to talk about it....then I calmed down. Okay Cliff's Notes version. She wants the M. She does not want D. She knows what she did was wrong and stupid. She says she was happy before the A and can't begin to understand why she did it. She knows I don't trust her and she will do anything to help re-establish trust. She knows one more "incident" and she is out the door. She will maintian NC for life. She will do anything to keep us together as a family. She will stop buying clothes and shoes. She will dedicate her life to the family. She will be completely transparent. She will be totally honest and answer any question I ask even if she does not think it will help me/us. She will go to IC to try to get to the root of her AA behavior. She knows she never loved OM - it was the A she loved - the excitement - the newness. She now believes it was never real - it was all fantasy just like everyone was trying to tell her all along but she had refused to believe.
I told her I didn't love her any more. I told her that didn't bother me too much because I had loved her once so I had faith I could learn to love her again. She was my wife and I had made her a promise to honor her and I told her I would continue to honor my vow until we were divorced. I said I had feelings for her but I don't understand what those feelings are. I like being around her - she is pleasant to be with. But I am hurt. She has seriously damaged my self-esteem and I never want to be hurt like that again.
I told her that the M would only work if we both fought to make it work. If she was not interested in that, we should just D now and go our separate ways. She insists she wants the M. She says she can't imagine being with anyone else for the rest of her life.
Now, she said the "right" things. Almost too good to be true. But I know her very well. And I think she is being sincere. But the proof if the pudding is in the eating. And if I catch her in one lie she is history. I also told her that I don't like her giving me all her cahs all the time. She says she wants to show me she is not buying phone cards. I said it is not a husband's job to prevent his wife from having an A. It is the wife's job to simply not do it. I refuse to live my life worrying whether she is having an A or not and when she gives me all her money, she is telling me that she is not responsible for her actions and I am. I told her to stop. I can't prevent her from having an A and don't want to try. She knows the consequences and she knows she cannot lie forever.
I said we need to stop being conflict avoiders. We need to make our M better if we can. I made it a requirement that we both read HNHN. Basically she agreed to everything on Todd's laundry list and more. She wants more than anything to prove to me that I can trust her. So that is where we are. I told her I still have bad days. She says she wants to help.
On that battery "head" issue, since luna gets so easily confused by french, I am wondering if she is not confusing "tete" with another word that is spelled something like that but far more descriptive of the parts in question.
stph, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with by saying your H is using you. I know how is sounds & it is harsh. But he is in an incredibly selfish place at the moment & is putting his wants above all else.
I'm not saying part of him doesn't want you, he certainly seems to, but he also wants to spend time with the OW therefor, I say he's using you to make himself feel better. When he needs a fix of stph he comes to you & gets some familiar comfort. This may not be a conscious effort but it is still his behavior. ((((stph))))
It's OK nams, you didn't hurt my feelings, I just didn't see it as him using me, but I see where you're coming from now and I understand why you said it. I don't think I totally understood what you were getting at before, but I do now.
It sounds like a grand-slam to me. Actually one better: an inside the park grand-slam. Of course, the bases must still be run and the umpire needs to see the runners touch home plate, but I have a good feeling about this. My guess is that MIL reamed G a new one and set her head back on straight.
I believe that you do still love G. Your belief that you don't is likely a coping mechanism the existence of which is very easy to understand and appreciate. She knows this is her last opportunity to prove she wants the M and her family. I encourage you to accept what she said as gospel and open your heart up to excellent possibilities. I feel really good about your marriage all of a sudden.
Pio - She is offering to demonstrate transperency. It isn't your responsibility to check up on her - it's her responsibility to prove she can be trusted. She wants to do that This is good.
Pio - you have a shot and it scares the he11 out of you. Embrace this.
Thank you everyone for tomorrow's well wishes. I don't expect to hear anything until Friday but hoping for tomorrow. Trying to keep my head level and not get expectations too high like last month. Anyway, thanks again and I will report as soon as I hear.
Have I mentioned that the love of my life has turned into a pompous, self gratifying [censored] of a man? When did social acceptance become important to him?
Did I read this right? So, he is a pompous, self gratifying j-s and he makes socially acceptable choices. And, that is why he is having an affair?
I'm off to Vegas! My goodness I am so excited now I have made the decision to go. It will be so nice to be away from this environment and H for a few days. Perhaps I will be able to think clearly away from home. I am going with my best friends so it will be so much fun. I have been very busy making arrangements for the boys etc. and I still have to pack so I haven't got long.
Piojitos you sound like another MB success story in the making. I am so happy for you.
Steph. stay strong.
Todd you are in my prayers.
Thank you all for the hugs and I will answer any questions next week.
If you have never seen Danny Ganz perform, do yourself a favor and go see his show. He is absolutely incredible. He is a singing impressionist and plays at the Mirage. You too BigK when you go.
In an exit affair there is low emotional attachement. In a romantic affair/soul mate affair there is a high level of emotional attachment. Romantic affairs are FAR more dangerous to the possibility of recovery to the marriage than exit affairs.
BigK, I always thought an exit affair is one where the WS plans/thinks of divorcing and/or leaving the BS for the OP and therefore an A with the highest level of emotional attachment, but it seems I had it all wrong… What is an exit A exactly?
Pio, as you say the proof is to come. I think your feelings towards G are perfectly normal. After the crisis & trama you're in a position to really think about how much this has hurt you & if you can & want to forgive & work for the M. As you said you loved her once & you think you can again. Very positive. Now it's her turn to step up to the plate & win you back. I hope she does & your heart is open to it.
I told her when she left for Mexico that, before she came back, she had to read a book that I gave her as she was leaving. FWIW she told me that while she was reading LNPDA (the Spanlish language version of TRLT), she had an epiphany (i.e. light bulb moment). Something snapped inside her - she said. Maybe that was $50 well invested on my part and effort above and beyond on the part of my sister. Something she read made her see things very differently.
Got done with the MRI a little while ago. Waiting now to hear from doc. Hopefully today but could be tomorrow. Cross your fingers.
I also had the mammorgram and yes, gave up my training bra for the good of science. Man, they smash those girls flat. Last time I'll fall for that trick. Put me back in the MRI coffin, I mean chamber, any day.
Now...Pio....you noticed I put 'heads' in quotes because I am preeetty sure that's not what they are called.... the thingamejing where you put the red and black big clips that should never touch....actually...they would be neat as Christmas decoration special effects...full of sparkles!
...and how are things with you?
...just read your post....sounds like you have a willing WS....have you ever considered talking to or have talked to Steve? ...I think he could be really helpful to set up a 'plan of action' with the two of you.
G. is asking you to give her a chance...I know you have been and are hurting a lot....and I guess it's your decision whether or not you are prepared to take the risk of being hurt again....but since you now know that you CAN survive the hurt....it might be worth the shot....the possibility of breaking up the family still remains an option... I would encourage you to see if G. can turn her talk into actions....and remember...she will need help....which is why I am suggesting a chat with monsieur Steve....
Quote
Luna - How did saying that make your day?
BigK....that's just it...it didn't...LOL! Something definitely gets lost by not 'seeing' me when I speak...LOL!
My WS is in a Romantic Affair...are the dots close enough now...LOL!
I'm soooooooo excited for you guys...Beth is going to Vegas, Pio is on the R road, Todd got to have a 2fer (check with Pio, I recommended a pap for him in the past he may think it wise for you to have one as well).
Pio it sounds like it is all falling into place, she is speaking in fog-free mode now lets see if she performs...I really think she will...I am overwhelmingly happy for you and just a smidge jealous
Todd I must say you sound like you did well getting out of the torture chamber...hang in there during the wait (always the worst...just like A limbo...) keep busy and stay away from the Remy...post lyrics if you have to or get some sleep for me and you both...I'm beat
All TKO family have a great day...I am booked to the busting point and doubt I'll have time to get back till way late...BBFN
An exit affair is when a partner decides to have an affair - could be with ANYONE - in the hopes that when discovered their partner will disolve the marriage - ie it can be anyone, they want the affair to be discovered and believe it will end the marriage - therefore low level of emotional commitment. Stef's H seems to have had an exit affair.
Friends, I just got off the phone with two of my docs.
There is an approximately 20% reduction in tumor size!
I cannot tell you how ecstatic I am. I cannot reach DS1 and DS2, out of office with their jobs; I did talk to DS3. He was obviously ecstatic and then started cying saying he didn't want me to die. That is the hardest part of this crap. So, now he has me crying.
Hey there Kiwi! I'm glad to hear your DD is doing well. How funny, "Americans love to shop"! For some reason that made me chuckle.
Pio, I agree with Kiwi.
G has expressed remorse, she has said she will do what you need her to do so you can hopefully find love & trust for her again. Don't make her beg & squirm even though I can see how it might be satisfying when thinking of the worst of times.
This weekend I'll be putting in a glaze fire which will include all my new glazes. I'm always SO hopeful when I open the kiln, looking for some spectacular result. Do I understand you correctly Pio when you say rutile will make a glaze reflective? Does that mean glossy, shinny? If I add rutile to a matt glaze would you expect to see areas of gloss within the matt surface?
Todd, I'm happy your MRI is over. You sound like your thinking positively & that's got to be good for you. How's your NC going? Have you decided to write a plan B letter or move toward D? How did your talk with your DS3 go? EEK! Am I nosey or what?
That's wonderful news Todd! I'm thrilled for you! You must celebrate with the mariachis! YIPEE!!!!
Do feel an improvement?
Forget my other questions. Just take the time to feel good. you certainly deverve it. Your DS3 sounds as sensitive as my third son, he gets upset if I ask if I can get rid of some childhood toy he hasn't looked at in years
OMG, XBF is an artist? I could have told you to stay away from male artists. If only I knew you when your relationship with him started I would have told you they tend to have big egos, can be flighty & have a reputation for disloyalty.
*DISCLAIMER* Before anybody gets all upset. This is, course not, true of ALL male artists....Just lots.
Really though larousse, I'm sorry things took such a different turn than you expected. Last I knew you'd said he was acting funny & getting all worked up about his car. All a smoke screen?
He's returned to an addiction! YIKES! That sounds scary. I'm sorry for your pain sweet larousse.
OK larousse, I'm coming down. I'll stop in Atlanta to pick up Todd. We'll grab a bottle of your favorite & we'll celebrate/commiserate!
We'll call the plumber just to see his crack! That ought to cheer us up. Well, maybe not Todd so much...But for him we'll have the best Mexican food ever. See what you can do to round up some mariachis.
Hi BigK! Since you didn't refute the cookout with our brilliant president GWBush I'll just go ahead & figure it's true. Don't let him take you driving around his ranch. I've heard he gets real chummy with some of his "buddies" on these "drives to see his land". When he suggests your W stay behind with Laura JUST SAY NO!
My friend brought her laptop to Vegas - it is going out the window and into the pool after this post. 4 women and 10 suitcases - we are traveling light....
I just had to check on you Todd and such wonderful news greeted me. We are going out to paint the town red on your behalf - or should that be pink?? No doubt you will be doing the same. I'm so happy for you and your boys, you've made my day.
It's the sad part about long distance relationshio. There's not much I can do, even if I wanted.
(Can people have koalas as pets?)
Nam,
Thank you for your words. Sadly I have to agree with you about the egotistical side of some artists. The car problems were real but he was trying to justify some money he had taken from my account without discussing it with me. Long story... The problem for me has been that I had a big crush* on him three years ago, that had almost disappeared until this year when he came back hard and saying all the right words. One thing I have to be greatful about getting 'mature' ehem. I know I can't deal and won't deal with an addict.
Thank you for caring.
We could all go to the Acquanet course. Mmmm, we could turn it into an aquavite course, this Noreguian* national beverage.
Friends, I just got off the phone with two of my docs.
There is an approximately 20% reduction in tumor size!
I cannot tell you how ecstatic I am. I cannot reach DS1 and DS2, out of office with their jobs; I did talk to DS3. He was obviously ecstatic and then started cying saying he didn't want me to die. That is the hardest part of this crap. So, now he has me crying.
Anway, just wanted to share the great news.
Todd, I have been thinking about you all day and busting at the seams to read if you've found anything out.
I am so thrilled for you..that is such awesome news!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Due to the snail crawling slowness of MB tonight, I am going to offer a group thank you for all the well wishers. Thank you. Your support and care means a lot.
Wow Todd! 20%? I think it's the Maker's Mark that makes the difference. Don't stop the treatment program! (At least for tonight).
larousse,
Sorry to hear that BF now is X-rated. Do you have any plumbing problems in the house? I think nams had a good plan.
For my case, I have wondered during this time if I might not be the biggest threat to my M. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is what comes to mind. But I think I keep trying to tell myself to be patient. I won't try to get my feels for WW back. I think it is good what all has happened. I don't feel like we are trying to salvage anything. I feel like we are starting from scratch. In that sense, the A doesn't really make any difference. I am trying to simply be a good husband and honor gemela as my wife and let nature take its course.
DDs went to a birthday/halloween part for a friend last night (was for adults too). Gemela had worked all week on the Halloween costumes. Well the DDs definitely set the standard. Her time and effort really showed.
Wow Todd! 20%? I think it's the Maker's Mark that makes the difference. Don't stop the treatment program! (At least for tonight).
I do believe that it is the Maker's Mark. My docs disagreed but what do they know? Honestly, I was hoping for more than 20%. I told the paradox that. One said the range in his personal experinece in a short time frame is 0 - 80%. I told him I wanted to be like the 80% guy. He said that the patient's tumor shrunk 80% the first month after radiation and by the third month was essentially gone. Yep, he was my hero. I wanna be like him. Then the doctor added: eight months later he was dead. I decided I had followed him long enough. Hey doc, are you sure mine is not closer to 15%?
Pio, I peeked too. OMG - BEAUTIFUL. I will take two please. I have two gorgeous boys, but gosh what I would do for a girl, a brown hair, dark eyes, chocolate skin GIRL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd...fabulous news...I'm sure it is the 20% like Pareto's law...it is the most problematic 20% I'm positive!!! I support your treatment plan of MM!!!
Pio, Glad you are being patient...sounds like you are imparting on a new journey...you aren't going to abandon us are you?
Larousse, I feel for you. Don't even know what to say to make you feel better cept to try Todd's intervention of MM:)
Everyone else...hhheeelllooo! Welcome Marsh. Drowning in work and must return...try to post later. Nothing new here...seems like ground hog day...(the movie)
Pio, I showed two of my boys your girls in their costumes & the 12 year old says "I'm surprised they dressed like that, usually at that age they want to be princesses. They look cool."
I just checked my match account & a guy winked at me so I checked out his profile. He says he likes a lady to be a lady but a real tramp in the bedroom.
I think I'll wink back. I'll bet he's a real catch. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Pah leeeze <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I just checked my match account & a guy winked at me so I checked out his profile. He says he likes a lady to be a lady but a real tramp in the bedroom.
I think I'll wink back. I'll bet he's a real catch. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Pah leeeze <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I have a friend who put her profile on match and a guy wrote her and said that he like her profile because he likes a woman with "junk in her trunk". Some guys have all the luck. I wish I could be so clever.
I edited my post so there would be no misunderstanding. JK, as I wrote earlier, means Just Kidding. Men can be such idiots.
You know Todd I just read those kids of things & think, ick. Why would a man think that kind approach is inviting? Maybe it works on a certain type & they have successes but ew.
Tell me about your weekend plans Todd.
Anyone have anything exciting planned?
Larousse, oh larousse, where are you?
I plan to work in the studio tomorrow & Sun. I'll finish glazing stuff tomorrow then put in a load & hope for the best. Sat. night we have a "gala event" at the gallery where I sell my work to wrap up an auction fund raiser. Let's hope lots of people show up.
After the event I'm gong out with a fellow potter for a dirty martini. It's a martini with a big olive stuffed with blue cheese. Wonderful! [color:"purple"] [/color]
Hi nams, it's a long weekend here. The official start of summer. Teaching has ended at the university as well, so now we just have three weeks of finals then no more students till February. As non academic staff we just carry on working. It's when we do all our reporting for the year, then start preparing for the first semester of next year. We do have summer holidays at Christmas though.
As well as standing on our heads down here we have weird seasons. LOL
Hi Todd! I was reading the good news (it took a while with the MB system snailing around). I am very happy for you. Keep taking care of yourself. I know (unfortunately) how tough all this is.
Pio, Now it is my turn: be open, be patient! I know is tough and when you start "relaxing" a lot of the repressed emotions will come up. Vent here. Take care of the relationship.
BK, it's great to hear your advices to Stef. I hope her WH comes to his senses soon.
I've been having quite tough two weeks. But after MC sessions I think H got it. We had tough conversations and he even apoligized for the first time (without being prompted) He wrote this NC letter (e-mail actually) today:
Subject: THE END
Dina,
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that Esther did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay Esther for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship."
Well, I know is by the book SAA, but coming from him, and seeing my name there took a huge weight from my chest. I just hope it's for real this time. I don't think I want to handle any more "surprises".
Hi Kiwi, of course your seasons aren't odd to you but it must take some getting used to for those who come to live there from non-upsidedown parts of the world. Christmas in summer, well, that's just not right.
OK, nobody laugh....promise? I bought wine in a box today. Oz (Ozwell) Shiraz. I've had it before & it's decent so when I saw the box the penny pincher in me decided to give it a try. If it starts to go bad before I can drink it I'll have to use it to cook.
A wine box. Oh nams. I don't know what they put in those things but I always got a headache after drinking it.
Christmas in summer is so normal to us that we would think it strange if we didn't go to the beach on Christmas Day.
The silly thing is we eat a traditional Christmas dinner. Turkey and all the trimmings. Hot and heavy (if you'll pardon the expression lol). It's ridiculous. Every year we say we'll have a bbq instead but we never do.
I bought wine in a box from Australia today. Jen thinks it will give me a headache because it's Australian. I don't think your homeland would knowing export something that would cause headaches do you? Kiwi does BTW, just in case I didn't mention that.
What's weird is Snowey nativity scenes, snowmen, candy canes in the middle of summer. I will gladly take summer any day. You can keep the snow Stef. It's all yours.
You're right, that is weird. That's why I like snowmen and candy canes in the winter; it's natural. You can't have a snowman made out of sand! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Does it ever get cold and snowy in Australia, BigK?
It does Stef - but only way south of where I live. We never get snow here. It can get down to 0°C (32°F) overnight but in winter the coldest it usually gets is 5°C (41°F)
Must be nice! It can get in the negatives (F) where I live. It's not always fun in the winter time with snow and ice. Especially driving...can be pretty scary!
I was in Boston in winter a few years ago and Columbus Ohio - I got real sick of snow REAL quick. Looks great when it is clean but dirty cold wet snow is not my udea of a good time. I am more than happy to skip that. LOL.
It's beautiful when it's coming down and right after it falls. IMO, after that it can go away again, LOL.
I have to say fall is my absolute favorite time of the year. Leaves are falling and changing color, it's beatiful, the air is fresh and crisp and cool. Hence the reason I got married in the fall. I sure hope divorce doesn't ruin it for me! LOL.
Summer can get to hot and sticky and gross and winter can get too cold. Spring is OK. By the time it comes, I'm ready for it. But I hold a special place in my heart for fall!
Australian wine is the best in the world, especially the export stuff.
Somehow I doubt that. We have already seen how they export only the worst beer (Foster's) and keep the best for themselves. Wouldn't surprise me if they did it with wine too.
Estrela,
It is a big first step on the NC letter. Just remember - it is his job to maintain NC and not your to enforce. Gemela violated her NC 5 times that I know of. But once she was NC for about 6 months, things really began to change.
She hasn't started scrapbooking just yet. She did make a birthday card for one of DD1's friends with her new toys. It looks really great. I have been laid up in bed with a searing headache the past 24 hours. It still hurts but I have to go to work. I never get headaches. We played golf yesterday and, because it's Ramadan still, I didn't drink much on the course so either I got seriously dehydrated or I have the flu.
I watched War of the Worlds and I have a question. If I understood the movie correctly, the aliens came to Earth and injected themselves via lightning into machines that they had previously buried here a long time ago. They came back to occupy the machines and kill everyone on Earth but died from viral infections. What bothers me about this is why didn't the aliens who came down to bury the tripod thingies in the first place bother to take a few water samples? Seems like they came a long way for nothing. Was that a planning problem or a process problem? I just don't understand the movie.
This also got me to wondering - when Tom Hanks got stranded on that deserted island in Castaway, do you think he ever got a cold or the flu? I am guessing he didn't. One nice thing about that island, there wouldn't have been any flies or mosquitoes (no food source except for Tom Hanks). I hate flies and/or mosquitoes.
I, on the other hand, loved Castaway. I did think the ice skates were over the top. I also have difficulty with an island where the tide comes in on all sides all the time - 360 degrees 24/7. Doesn't make geologic (tectonic?) sense. Being stranded alone on a deserted island has always been a fantasy of mine. I would love the opportunity to see how I would cope. I'm not sure I would have ever tried to leave though.
Todd, Shrinkage?? Glad to hear it's in your best interest.
Happy for you, Jelly
Hi Jelly and thank you. Yes, when the doc first said shrinkage, I banged my head against the desk and said "no, why me"? And then he explained what he really meant.
Anyway, it made me think of the following moment in television history:
JERRY: Oh, check it out. I guarantee you've never seen anything quite so objectionable. It's down the hall, third door on your left. (Rachel walks down hall, walks in on George changing out of his swimsuit)
RACHEL: (She screams) Oh my God! I'm sorry, I thought this was the baby's room. I'm really sorry. (She exits)
GEORGE: (realizing he was short changed) I was in the pool! I was in the pool!
[Jerry and George talking in Jerry's room]
GEORGE: Did she do it on purpose?
JERRY: It was my fault, I told her the wrong door.
GEORGE: I was supposed to see her. She wasn't supposed to see me.
JERRY: So what?
GEORGE: Well ordinarily I wouldn't mind. But...
JERRY: But...
GEORGE: Well I just got back from swimming in the pool. And the water was cold...
JERRY: Oh... You mean... shrinkage.
GEORGE: Yes. Significant shrinkage.
JERRY: So you feel you were short changed.
GEORGE: Yes! I mean, if she thinks that's me she's under a complete misapprehension. That was not me, Jerry. That was not me.
JERRY: Well, so what's the difference?
GEORGE: What if she discusses it with Jane?
JERRY: Oh, she's not gonna tell Jane.
GEORGE: How do you know?
JERRY: Women aren't like us.
GEORGE: They're worse! They're much worse than us, they talk about everything! Couldn't you at least tell her about the shrinkage factor?
JERRY: No, I'm not gonna tell her about your shrinkage. Besides, I think women know about shrinkage.
GEORGE: How do women know about shrinkage?
JERRY: Isn't it common knowledge?
GEORGE & JERRY: (Elaine walking down the hall they notice her and wave her into the room) Elaine! Get! (She enters)
GEORGE: Do women know about shrinkage?
ELAINE: What do you mean, like laundry?
GEORGE: No.
JERRY: Like when a man goes swimming... afterwards...
ELAINE: It shrinks?
JERRY: Like a frightened turtle!
ELAINE: Why does it shrink?
GEORGE: It just does.
ELAINE: I don't know how you guys walk around with those things.
Yes too bad they aren't like a part of the feminine anatomy that get longer with age.
BTW, who is Jelly? I'm really confused. And Estrela's WH is writing letters to Dina and Esther - who are they? I get sick for one day and you've replaced EVERYBODY.
Shouldn't she be "Yelly"? It is just all so confusing. And then there is someone who signs as "Kimmy" when that is not even close to her screen name. We need a score card.
Marshmallow,
Thanks for the kind thoughts. I don't expect any quick fix but we are both finally on the same path (as bigger likes to say). I still think believer continually posting the Dobson excerpt to me is what was the turning point in my mind. I am thankful for her stubborness. Of course, if it hadn't been for MB in general, I would have been divorced long ago. I can't even count all the people who have so unselfishly helped me and kept me going when I didn't have the energy. I think I walk with a permanent limp from bigger's 2x4. Man is he strict! And it definitely helps to come here and vent. And yes Pool Boy is gone for good - [censored] that he is. Right now I think gemela wants the M more than me. Hopefully that will change with time.
Years ago I bought an airbrush when I was in Mexico. I never got it to work. I think I used the wrong paint. I left that airbrush in storage when we moved to Dubai because of the voltage. I missed my airbrush that I don't know how to use. Last year an expat was leaving and he had a brand new airbrush that he had never used either and wanted to sell it so I bought it just so I wouldn't be airbrushless. I have a six day weekend starting tonight. I found a website about airbrushing. I am going to get out my airbrush and give it a try. Of course, if there any airbrush experts out there who are willing to share experience, I would be grateful.
I thought kYellow was script from a programming language. But, according to your logic, why wouldn't she be "Jello" instead? I just can't make the connection to "jelly".
What does "obtuse" mean? Isn't that an angle greater than 90 degrees? Why does geometry come into play? This just keeps getting worse. I'm sorry I ever mentioned it. Todd will explain it. He understands.
We may be about to lose our housemaid. We are decorating the house for Halloween and it is causing a bit of a problem. The maid is extremely religious. She goes to church 7 days a week in her little Eritrean subcommunity here. If she were American, she would be a card-carrying member of the Moral Majority. Anyway, she is now convinced we are devil worshipers. She throws things away that have any hint of Halloween. When DD2 put on the devil costume, the maid got out her Bible and started yelling chants at the poor girl. Her work is suffering because she is up all night praying for our souls. Next thing I know she will be asking us to stop sacrificing dogs and cats!
Just kidding!
She would never ask us to do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What does "obtuse" mean? Isn't that an angle greater than 90 degrees? Why does geometry come into play? This just keeps getting worse. I'm sorry I ever mentioned it. Todd will explain it. He understands.
Pio and Group,
As a walking, talking lexicon, I am happy to explain what the word obtuse means. For the record, the information that follows is known by approximately 60 peope in this world. So, feel very priviliged.
First, a rough definition is "being slow of mind" or "not swift of mind". The origin of the word comes from a French gentleman (oxymoron) name Olin Bashe Tuse. Last name was pronounced "two-say". Little Olin was not very errr... how do you say? Gifted. He was a little slow. When he entered high school, he completed his enrollment form and entered his name as O B Tuse as was common in old Frahn-say. From the first day of his first class, little Olin fell behind the rest of the students. One day the teacher called on him to answer a question and little Olin misunderstood the question although the teacher went to great pains to explain it. She glanced at her class log and ran his initials together and called little Olin "Obtuse". The name stuck and it was just a matter of time before Webster, Thorndike and Gates caught on and entered the new word in their versions of the dictionary.
So when you say "don't be obtuse", what you are really saying is "don't be like a stupid frenchie". Okay. I'll buy that.
Exactly. You catch on fast...
Quote
I have another question. Where did the term "Jay Walking" come from? It just doesn't make any sense.
Okay I just went to askoxford.com and apparently being "a jay" means you are being obtuse traffic-wise and they say the term originated in 1917.
Jaywalking consists of two separate words: jay and walking. The derivation is very interesting. In the People's Republic of Massachusetts before the Tea Party, if the British were not able to collect levies from a citizen of the New World, they would take his possessions and strip him of his clothes. Hence, the term "naked as a jaybird" was conceived. On the way home, the so stripped citizens would never cross at the crosswalk, but would cross streets in the middle all the while dodging cars. Just a matter of time before the term "jaywalker" was invented.
Just to add a bonus in here, you will recall that John Jay was one of the writers of the Federalist Papers. His family formerly carried the name of Watson. But so many Watsons in the early days were stripped and hence became jaywalkers that their neighbors began referring to them as the "Jay" family instead of Watson. The name stuck and today, we have no idea that John Jay could have easily been Jay Watson.
On the way home, the so stripped citizens would never cross at the crosswalk, but would cross streets in the middle all the while dodging cars.
I have a question. Back in the 1700's, were the colonists allowed to own cars or was it only the British?
How O B Tuse of me! Of course, I mean horse drawn carriages. Back in the 1700's, only professional athletes had cars. Seemed obvious to me, but since you asked, there...
How nice to see the merriment, even from poor sick (((Pio))).
Todd, I will share the O B Tuse story with my boys. They will probably think the teacher was mean...oh wait...does that mean they're obtuse?
"Americans aren't that dumb" Thanks BigK! Sweet of you in a backhanded sort of way. Hey, that's probably one of the nicest compliments we're likely to get these days.
KY Jelly, gawd you engineers, so literal, must have things spelled out for you. Lossen up the mind a tad, use your imagination. Actually, watch a little T.V.. You'll see an add with a man reading in bed & his W showing him the bottle of lubricant, the one that heats up. He's confused at first because she uses the word jelly instead of lubricant. Clearly an engineer. Finally that come hither look in his W's eye gets through his thick skull.
That must be a trick question. My neighbor has a tree - I don't know what kind - and it drops SOMETHING on my yard and driveway twice a year for about two months each time. It is nasty stuff. So I bought a Remington pole saw and cut every bit of his tree from over my driveway. He came out and caught me and said "hey that looks great! can you cut some more?". He also asked me to pull a stump for him. You don't have to ask me that twice! Anything that requires horsepower and I'm in!
nams - you need to move to a new time zone or else get insomnia.
As much as I'd like to go back to being unable to sleep & spend more time here, I'll take the sleep I get, thank you very much.
Tonight was the last night of our auction & it went well. There was a small bidding war with one of my pieces so I told the woman who lost the bid that I'd brought my contribution of food for the night on a similar piece. She bought it. One man told me the piece of mine he bought was the best deal of the night. When I'd first had the piece in a show I priced it at $150, I think he got it for $60. That's OK, he really liked it & understood the amount of work that went into it so I'm glad he got it. I like to see people touch my work & connect with it & he did.
The food was great & it was a fun night so all's well. Tomorrow I'll work in the studio & I'll see how my kiln load came out. If I get anything fantastic I'll post a pic. Five new glazes, we'll see...I can hardly wait, it's like Christmas when I unload my kiln. Sometimes a Christmas filed with all I asked for, sometimes it's all the wrong stuff, most of the time it's somewhere in between.
Well I am strugling with my air brush. I have two air brushes. One is suction and the other is gravity feed. I can't even get water to come out the darn things. I have the air pressure where it says it should be. Air comes out - but no water - much less paint! I must be doing something fundamentally wrong.
Okay I took one of the airbrushes completely apart. I polished everything and put WD-40 on anything that moved or slid. Now I can get water out. Going to try paint.
I was not going to post this update but it is so slow, I figure why not. WW called last night, drunk. Before you whack me, I have no caller ID here so I cannot screen calls. She said that she had talked to DS3 earlier today and told him that she was going to Bermuda for Thanksgiving with friends from work. Then she said she had plenty of options. I reminded her of NC and hung up.
DS3 called later that night and I offered to rent a cottage at the lake and golf community during Thanksgiving weekend since WW was going to be in Bermuda. He said what? Mom is going to Bermuda for Thansgiving? She obvsiously had not told him. Then he said he had to go. I know he called her immediately. Good. Let WW deal with DS3 for a while.
Well done Todd? Way to go Todd? You know it is bad enough I have to put up with his incessant insults but does he really need a cheering section? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Well I finally got all the airbrushes working. I thought the airbrush had never been used but the previous owner had used it and never cleaned all the paint from the jar or one of the brushes. At least now I understand the fluid mechanics of an airbrush. It operates as a venturi. Not sure if it is an adiabatic process or not though. I need more research.
The whimpy little compressor it came with has a max pressure of 40 psi and a working pressure of 20-25 psi. I thought hmmmmm.... I am having trouble with the paint because I am stealing the DDs' poster paint and it is very viscous. So all I really need to do is create a more efficient venturi. I decided to hook up the airbrush to my 150 psi working pressure 5 1/2 Hp 50 gallon air compressor and see what happens. Unfortunately it was easier said than done. To get from the 1/2" NPT pipe fittings on my compressor to the tiny threads on my airbrush has taken a total of 27 adapters/reducers and, to finish the job, I had to go out and buy some aircraft grade aluminum bar stock and drill and tap to get the last missing thread. But now I can dip my airbrush feed hose in a 5 gallon paint bucket and paint the side of my house while lying in a hammock 20 feet away! I tried painting on card stock paper but it tends to punch a hole right through it. Maybe I'll paint flames on the golf cart...
Opening my kiln was not like Christmas unless we're talking about a really disappointing one. I found out the power co. was working on a broken wire after my kiln had shut off three times. The third time it shut off it was probably at about 800 degrees. Three pieces were ruined & I don't know if it was because the glaze dried & flaked before it had time to melt or because the glaze stinks Two other pieces, part of a set of 4, had glaze drop off the pot. I'm guessing those fell off before the glaze could melt.
Some pieces were good if not exciting. One piece has a very pretty glaze, the kind of glaze potters like but others typically find not colorful enough. No pics though 'cause nothing was that exciting.
Pio, what effect would you expect manganese in clay to have on a glaze? What in a glaze would not react well with manganese?
I think I figured out a way to make some peace with the fact I don't know for certain infidelity played a part in the brake down of my marriage.
Whether ex was unfaithful or not he made the choice to look outside the M to make himself feel better. He put what he thought would make him happy above our M & our family.
He decided to not put forth the effort required to make our M better & instead decided life for him would be better away from me.
I understand he may have been influenced by either an EA or a PA. However he was the one who, despite lots of information saying we could have a good marriage if we both worked on it, decided he had a better chance for happiness away from me. His own happiness was more important than any commitment he made to me or our family.
I think you have developed a healthy way of looking at your sitch. It is immaterial as to the fate of your marriage whether XH had an affair or not. Also, don't let it define you because whatever happened, it is not about you, but him.
I came over here to GC11 to try to figure out the role the suspected infidelity of ex played in our M. I did in a way. The choices ex made, whether they included infidelity or no, are what ultimately lead to our D.
What lead up to the point where one person wants out takes two & I've owned my part of that both to ex & myself. From the point of me willing to make things work forward, it was in ex's hands & he decided no. I know I did all I could with the given circumstances & ex was the unwilling participant. I know I can look at myself years from now knowing I did as much as I could have.
Your WW going away for Thanksgiving is probably a good thing. For you the pressure is off to have a family holiday for the sake of DS3. Her going shows she's willing to put herself before your boys. It's those kinds of things that speak very loudly to your boys.
ex & I separated sometime in Oct./Nov. I hadn't told my father because in my mind we were separated with the possibility of a real reconciliation. So, we followed tradition & had Thanksgiving dinner with my family at my father's house. It was quite the dog & pony show. Very, very sad for me & exhausting. Go with your sons & I'll bet you'll have a great time.
My last shoe purchases were a pair of red and ivory floral Converse low-tops and a pair of black leather birkenstocks. They went well with the two pairs of black heels that I bought. Variety. The spice of life.
I don't make my own clay, I buy it already bagged & ready to use. I imagine the manganese is added in powdered form to the dry ingredients before it's put into a mixer & the water added. If there are different types of manganese then I don't have any idea which form it might be.
I used to love to buy shoes. Not on any grand scale but I'd always browse through the shoe dept. Until I developed some heal problem, don't remember the name, now what I wear most are Dansko clogs. Heal problem solved & they last forever. Don't look so good with skirts though.
Are we talking shoes because the guys were talking air compressors?
I sometimes use an air compressor to put on glazes but it's more trouble than it's worth & I'll bet mine would be considered whimpy.
I just bought a pair of shoes which look like air compressors. In fact, they are air compressors. They shoot a jet of air out the back which allows you to run faster. I almost did not buy them, being Superman and all, but I really like gadgets.
i threw in towel today...see my thread for details...
shoes are my favorites...candies, combat boots, LLBean wool clogs, Birkies, Mia, you name it and I'll find a shoe I like...sorry Pio, G has some good company when it comes to shoe love:)
Todd - isn't being a lexicon illegal in many states?
Kimmy,
Good catch. Most do not know that lexicon is a person who steals more than one Lexus. So, to address your question, in my state, it is illegal to steal Lexi if and only if intent can be proven. And I never inteneded to steal more than one so I am in the clear.
I think she said she is going to bed. You, OTOH, should go watch more Oprah. I can't believe someone called you a pig and I defended you. What was I thinking? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Nothing like a good pair of combat boots. Put on some good socks and lace yours up tight. I know how I felt when I found gemela's love letters and photos and those were months old. It just deflated me in an instant. I wasn't even angry - just finally accepting defeat. I just decided it was no longer worth it. And my case was nothing compared to yours. You are a much stronger person than I am. Funny thing about your H...he can't even be faithful to his OW. It seems like he is either a SA as someone mentioned or he is simply trying to force you to be the one to end the M. And his comment about you not being good enough? That sounds almost like a dare.
Go get a nice new posting and get a new start. Your WH isn't a future for anyone.
My WW is an audiophile. She has music going everywhere in every room all the time. I don't listen to love songs very much but I like them. English love songs can't hold a candle to Latina love songs. For pure gut wrenching passion, there is nothing like a Latina love song. Raw emotion oozes out of the speakers. She brought back some CD's with her from Mexico and she plays them in the kitchen 24/7. I don't really think she even listens that closely to the words (like most people). But, being in Spanish, it costs me some effort to understand them so I listen closely. We were both wroking on different Halloween projects in the kitchen and were in there for hours. I listend to that music and it just depressed the heck out of me. She noticed and asked what was wrong. I told her that the music depressed me because it reminds me of what I lost and what we don't have any more. I miss feeling like that and think maybe we should just go our separate ways so she can be with someone she loves and I can find someone who can love me. She reminded me that we agreed that we would try to learn to love each other again. I hate love songs.
WH and I are going to start dating (each other) again. You can do the same thing...maybe it will work for you and you can regain those feelings again, like we're trying to do.
I don't think I insulted anybody did I? You guys are just typical...if you are insulted by that, then maybe you should not be so typical! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'll take photos of our finished projects. Gemela is doing some good stuff this year. She has this "haunted tree" that looks great. She made it out of a ficus that bit the dust. Unfortunately she got mad at the ficus on day during her gardening and snipped it into dozens of pieces for the trash before she realized it would be great for Halloween. Well she brought it to me. That ficus is now held together with more titanium pins that Evel Knievel. It was hours of some of my best, most creative work. Did I get a thanks? No.
She bought some yellow sheer material and wanted to put scary silhouettes in the windows. Good idea until it came time to make the silhouettes. I downloaded so good patterns from a membership I have at clipart.com, I modified the WMF's to remove or add what she wanted, I added registration lines, blew them up and cut them into A4 sizes pieces and printed them and then carefully assembled the patterns to their intended form. I spent hours doing all this. WW was taking a nap.
I have a question about cyberhugs. What is the difference between:
[[[cyberhug]]] (((cyberhug))) and {{{cyberhug}}}
Do they have different meanings? What is appropriate for guys to give to guys? Is there a "bracket" limit? Sorry I am a bit dense about this part of netiquette.
Irony...WH was fogless...clear as vodka...when we discussed my quitting on the M he calmly stated he didn't blame me and that he had no excuses...said all the OW are meaningless and suggested if we move and get a fresh start perhaps that would help...I suggested it would be fresh meat...he countered with he would do SAHD again to be away from OWs...I stated he was an adult and needed to learn to interact in appropriate relationships if he wanted to break the cycle...he replied, "I am weak". I told him I was sad but that I was hardcore and could take care of myself, it was the kids I was most sad about...he agreed. I told him he behaved as if he were single and so that is what he should be...it went on from there but basically he said if we had been able to talk like this 5 yr ago we wouldn't be at the point we are now. I disagreed and said it really did not matter now. He continued to discuss things as though we were going to be together...don't think he believes I am truly done.
Will work out the details later. Too much work piled up I have to deal with for todays deadlines. I appreciate all the support. Hugz back at all of you!
Such a typical man thing to not get cyber hugs. Here's the break down:
{{{}}} these are the biggest, bestest, most tightest heartfelt hugs of all. They are the kind that holds for a while then gives an extra little squeeze before letting go.
((())) these are good solid hugs. We give this hug with open arms & a smile on our face. A let's see if we can't cheer you up hug that may even include a kiss on the cheek.
[[[]]] this is a man to man hug. Stiff, quick & with a hearty pat on the shoulder & a quick pull away.
Pio, It sounds like you're feeling taken for granted, maybe even building a little resentment. Can you take this opportunity to tell G that you do these things for her as a show of love & not just because you're an engineer who loves to mess with stuff?
I read your update and posted a long, supportive message to your thread. Unfortunately, it was zapped to outer space. MB has been so slow I have had a number of problems with reading and entering posts that I gave up.
You have been a saint with unlimited patience. The latest salvos from WH are just mind boggling. You can take satisfaction in the fact that you can look in the mirror and in your kids' eyes and know you did everything humanly possible to save your M.
If it's some small consolation, I [color:"blue"] used to[/color] also. I spent nearly 3 years listening to acid and thrasher rock (which explains a lot of the headaches, I suppose).
I've only just begun to be able to listen to love songs...but the latina love songs trigger the tar outta me. OW is latina...which is something I'll never be.
2Much...people tell me all the time that they could have never stayed with my husband and the OCs. I have to say, I could have never given your husband HALF the love and chances you have. You rank high in the sainthood scale to me. (((((2Much)))))) again.
1. MB has become sooooo s-l-o-w that it is no fun to even read posts let alone enter new ones. It seems a little quicker this morning so hopefully they are resolving the problem;
2. One of the tumor's side effects was to diminish my hormone levels. As a result, my bones had become weakened. One such set of bones was my teeth. I have had four perfectly good teeth break off at the gum line while eating. A few days ago, one tooth got infected. I am taking AB but have been in some crazy pain.
I have tried to keep up with posts but it simply takes too long. It appears that TKO is slow in general presumbably because of the site slowdown.
So, how are you?
How is your dog progressing now that you got the refrigerator's ventriloquist to calm down?
Here's a cute little story. DS3 picked me up after work yesterday to go grocery shopping. When we got back in the car, he handed me one of those lottery scratch tickets and asked me to scratch the stuff off. He said you have to match three numbers to win. I did and guess what? There were three $50,000 amounts! He kept saying, Dad don't kid me. We both got excited and after he parked, he looked at it. It turned out to be a fake ticket someone from his office had given him. Easy come, easy go.
Well that's kind of a snooty attitude. Don't knock it until you have tried it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yes nams, I do feel taken for granted. We played golf and I drove the cart home and WW drove the car so she got to the house first. When I got in, she had just gotten of the phone with friend whose house the DDs were visiting and asked if I wanted to go to the bouncey castles later and we would all meet there. I said okay. She said we would eat shawarmas. This would be in a couple of hours. I was already starving. I said it sounded okay (a little reluctantly). She says good because she already said yes. I got something to eat and she tells me not to fill up because we are going to eat shawarmas later. I said she had no right to obligate me to eat shawarmas. I would get her all she wanted but I didn't have to eat if I didn't want to. Things have been very quiet since then.
Yes nams, I do feel taken for granted. We played golf and I drove the cart home and WW drove the car so she got to the house first. When I got in, she had just gotten of the phone with friend whose house the DDs were visiting and asked if I wanted to go to the bouncey castles later and we would all meet there. I said okay. She said we would eat shawarmas. This would be in a couple of hours. I was already starving. I said it sounded okay (a little reluctantly). She says good because she already said yes. I got something to eat and she tells me not to fill up because we are going to eat shawarmas later. I said she had no right to obligate me to eat shawarmas. I would get her all she wanted but I didn't have to eat if I didn't want to. Things have been very quiet since then.
Pio,
I don't even know what a shankworm is, but I can assure you I would never eat one. I have a standing rule which I developed in the third grade: say the name of the food. If it sounds replulsive, don't eat it. I have a long list of foods I avoid including: rutabagas, beets, veal, squid, legumes, lox, sardines and squash just to name a few. Shankworms? Not for me.
Question: is this a pattern which WW followed before the A? Honestly, what you posted sounds very picky and temperamental on your part. If you are hungry, eat. If you don't want to eat shankworms, don't eat them. Or eat one just to be polite. Or I am missing something here?
Oh yeah, add rattlesnake to the list. Don't eat rattlesnake.
There is also the "other" list of foods which sound atractive and are a bit, if not downright, disgusting.
After graduating from college, I took my first job with a Boston based company. For our international delegates, Boston is located in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. Within two weeks of my employment, they flew me to the home office. That evening, my boss, his boss and his bosses' boss took me to dinner. Here I am, a young man, hungry, sitting at a table at the very clubby Locke-Ober. They all pined that I had to try the lobster or scrod. (Suffice to say I do not eat "scrod". Ugh). Anyway, as I scanned the menu, an item jumped off the page at me: sweetbreads. I had always had a sweet tooth and I figured hey: I love cinammon rolls, honey buns, Little Debbies,etc. I remained hungry after dinner. I refused to eat the "sweetbreads". I could smell them and that was plenty. They all had a good laugh and said something about the Southern guy who fell off the turnip truck. At least it wasn't the rutabaga truck. I would have stunk to high heaven.
The issue is she expects me to eat even if I'm not hungry because it "looks" good. I don't like to eat if I'm not hungry and I don't really like shawarmas all that much because of all the chicken fat in them. And if I don't eat, she gets mad.
The issue is she expects me to eat even if I'm not hungry because it "looks" good. I don't like to eat if I'm not hungry and I don't really like shawarmas all that much because of all the chicken fat in them. And if I don't eat, she gets mad.
The question is: was WW this way before DD or is this new behavior?
Okay, it is slow enough in TKO that song lyrics are justified. Sorry but it just is.
I also hate love songs these days. I like breakup songs. Nobody does breakup better than the heady Jackson Browne. Well, maybe the bad breaker-upper on Seinfeld. Here are the lyrics to his masterpiece title album, "Late for the Sky".
The words had all been spoken And somehow the feeling still wasn't right And still we continued on through the night Tracing our steps from the beginning Until they vanished into the air Trying to understand how our lives has led us there
Looking hard into your eyes There was nobody I'd ever known Such an empty surprise to feel so alone
Now for me some words come easy But I know that they don't mean that much Compared with the things that are said when lovers touch You never knew what I loved in you I don't know what you loved in me Maybe the picture of somebody you were hoping I might be
Awake again I can't pretend and I know I'm alone And close to the end of the feeling we've known
How long have I been sleeping How long have I been drifting alone through the night How long have I been dreaming I could make it right If I closed my eyes and tried with all my might To be the one you need
Awake again I can't pretend and I know I'm alone And close to the end of the feeling we've known
How long have I been sleeping How long have I been drifting alone through the night How long have I been running for that morning flight Through the whispered promises and the changing light Of the bed where we both lie Late for the sky
And then there is the formerly ubiquitous Bob Dylan. Great I'm a leaving song.
It ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe It don't matter, anyhow An' it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe If you don't know by now When your rooster crows at the break of dawn Look out your window and I'll be gone You're the reason I'm trav'lin' on Don't think twice, it's all right
It ain't no use in turnin' on your light, babe That light I never knowed An' it ain't no use in turnin' on your light, babe I'm on the dark side of the road Still I wish there was somethin' you would do or say To try and make me change my mind and stay We never did too much talkin' anyway So don't think twice, it's all right
It ain't no use in callin' out my name, gal Like you never did before It ain't no use in callin' out my name, gal I can't hear you any more I'm a-thinkin' and a-wond'rin' all the way down the road I once loved a woman, a child I'm told I give her my heart but she wanted my soul But don't think twice, it's all right
I'm walkin' down that long, lonesome road, babe Where I'm bound, I can't tell But goodbye's too good a word, gal So I'll just say fare thee well I ain't sayin' you treated me unkind You could have done better but I don't mind You just kinda wasted my precious time But don't think twice, it's all right
The issue is she expects me to eat even if I'm not hungry because it "looks" good. I don't like to eat if I'm not hungry and I don't really like shawarmas all that much because of all the chicken fat in them. And if I don't eat, she gets mad.
OK, so what is a shawlwarmer and why does she care if you eat or not? That sounds very controlling to me. Aren't you an adult who knows when he's hungry and wants to eat?
Has she always been that way? Can you talk to her about her behavior and tell her how it makes you feel? If she's really wanting to work on the M, she should know your feelings and respect them.
Shawarmas are made from either lamb or chicken. Start by placing alternating layers of hammered out meat and fat on a long spit and hang it vertically in front of a gas fired burner where it rotates. Since it is always done outdoors, the flies stay on the part away from the gas burner so they have to be really agile and stay on their toes. As the meat rotates, the gas burner cooks it. The meat is shaved off with a knife, chopped up a bit more and then placed in arabic bread with lettuce, garlic/butter paste and a pickle with a flavor without description. It is rolled up and eaten. There is no control on the cooking. If the shawarma stand is not too busy, the meat is cooked. If it is really busy, they just shave and shave and don't care if it comes off raw. Shawarmas have killed more people than typhoid.
Yes she has always been this way only now I am fighting back.
Somebody once said that the art of life (or war I suppose) is choosing your battles wisely. If she engaged in this kind of behavior before the A, I mean honestly what is the big deal? I know where you grew up. You have eaten chicken fat before. So have I. We survived. Just take a couple of bites and let it be. This is not a battle worth fighting.
My guilty little secret is Randy Travis. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I have always loved this song. It's a REAL love song but I won't admit liking country music if you ask me, so don't ask me.
You may think that I'm talking foolish You've heard that I'm wild and I'm free You may wonder how I can promise you now This love that I feel for you Always will be
You're not just time that I'm killing I'm no longer one of those guys As sure as live This love that I give Is gonna be yours until the day that I die Oh baby
I'm gonna love you forever Forever and ever, amen As long as old men sit and talk about the weather As long as old women sit and talk about old men If you wonder how long I'll be faithful I'll be happy to tell you again I'm gonna love you Forever and ever Forever and ever amen
They say time takes its toll on a body Makes a young girl's brown hair turn gray Well, honey, I don't care I ain't in love with your hair And if it all fell out I'd love you anyway
Well, they say time can play tricks on a memory Make people forget things they knew Well, it's easy to see It's happening to me I've already forgotten every women but you Oh baby
I'm gonna love you forever Forever and ever, amen As long as old men sit and talk about the weather As long as old women sit and talk about old men If you wonder how long I'll be faithful Just listen to how this song ends I'm gonna love you Forever and ever Forever and ever amen I'm gonna love you Forever and ever Forever and ever Forever and ever amen
Just thought I would drop by and say 'HI' to EVERYBODY. Been busy, but lurking and am trying to stay 'caught up' (as if anybody noticed!....LOL)
Quote
I have a question about cyberhugs. What is the difference between:
[[[cyberhug]]] (((cyberhug))) and {{{cyberhug}}}
Do they have different meanings? What is appropriate for guys to give to guys? Is there a "bracket" limit?
I see that some very serious issues are being dealt with... good thing Nams is there to set us straight!
2much...sorry to hear about your WS.....it must really hurt... looks like WS has serious issues to resolve and is blowing his chances with you... keep focusing forward on what you need to do for you and your kids...it will get better...
Todd...I know I am a little late about your good news...but it looks like our group 'vibes' did the job..
...and just so nobody feels left out....
[[[TKO]]] (((TKO))) and {{{TKO}}}
Pio,
Quote
And if I don't eat, she gets mad.
So?.....she's allowed! ...me thinks she might quit when it no longer has any effect on YOU!
You all have been great...I am definitely not a saint but thanks for ranking me up there:)
I must confess Pio, it galls me when WH doesn't eat when we (the family) whether he is hungry or not. To me it is more than a nutrition issue...I am more concerned with being part of the family, using it as social interaction with the kids. However, even if he comes home at his normal time I used to get peeved if I made dinner and had it ready for him and he didn't eat...if I didn't have it waiting he would be peeved. As far as at a social gathering...I think it is polite to eat something...now those Sha-na-na things...I wouldn't necessarily eat those but just to be hospitable would indulge in a small something. JMHO
Todd, I would never take you for someone who avoids foods based on how they sound...what about goulash? slaw? zuchinni? would you eat calamari b/c it sounds more musical than squid? What about your beverages? Are you equally discriminating?? Hmmmppphhhh, I thought I pretty much had you pegged!
It is cold here, I just sipped a hot chocolate with tons of whipped cream and am sitting in a big leather chair near the fire at the local wi-fi cafe...doesn't get much better on a blustery day.
MB has been running sooooooooooo sssssllllllllooooooooowwwww
I must chime in on the I HATE LOVE SONGs club...perhaps with time it will change but I must agree with nams...or was it larousse??? I am more into the angry music these days
If you want to laugh so hard you are incontinent read the thread "white stuff in panties" no disrespect to the threadmaster but read starfish reply...I was a laughing idiot...if you don't think it's funny there is seriously something wrong...with...ok...maybe me??? no...you!!!
Can you believe when I got home there were flowers waiting for me???? I have finally made up my mind and am at peace with it ...figures that is how things work...don't worry I haven't changed my mind...I am just being the same as I ever was which doesn't make any sense to him.
The Pio family makes me feel like the worst mom ever...I haven't done much at all for Halloween...we bought pumpkins 2 weeks ago and cleaned them and polished the outside to a high gloss with hardwood floor wax...they are gleaming...tip...don't let them get wet or they bubble:(
Pio, when the moment is right just let G know that you are needing a little TLC...give her the green light, help set it up so it makes you feel happy and safe/warm about you as a couple. You just need some love bank deposits in your form and maybe she isn't in tune to what you like/need. Did you guys do the EN Q's yet?
Stph20...what's up with the dating? Sounds good...
BK, Larousse, KiwiJ, Nams, Cinderella, Dealan-le, Luna hugz I gotta go do kid pick up from religion class...will try to chat back later. If I don't make it back have a cozy night!
Shawarmas are made from either lamb or chicken. Start by placing alternating layers of hammered out meat and fat on a long spit and hang it vertically in front of a gas fired burner where it rotates.
Ah. We have those here in Lebanese fast food shops. They call them Donner Kebabs though and they are cooked indoors.
Couldn't believe he didn't know about "that" issue already.
I feel left out of the pumpkin parade. We never buy our pumpkins till the day before...otherwise we'd end up with ooey, gooey, smelly pumpkin soup....and if you leave it too long, it'll leave a nasty stain on your porch.
BLAH!
I'd love to be able to carve our pumpkins a few days before!
Todd, I would never take you for someone who avoids foods based on how they sound...what about goulash? slaw? zuchinni? would you eat calamari b/c it sounds more musical than squid? What about your beverages? Are you equally discriminating?? Hmmmppphhhh, I thought I pretty much had you pegged!
Hi 2much,
Sorry to disappoint.
No, will not eat goulash.
Never ate cole slaw until I was 38.
Zuchinni? No problem there.
Calimari? Of course it is a euphemism for squid. I don't eat either. Both are greasy and stringy.
Think about it: any food that has a euphemism is bad news. Snails, squid, raw fish, whatever sweetbreads really are; seems to be some conflicting information of that. Chitlin's. Scrod. Rocky Mountain oysters? No thank you.
Beverages? Not really. Okay, it does carry over to some beverages. For example, I will not touch Jaggermeister. Nasty.
It is a thick, fragrant beef casserole, flavoured with onions, tomatoes, paprika and carraway and is DELICIOUS. I serve it with loads of creamed potatoes. My Austrian exBIL taught me how to make it.
Just wanted to check in and say hello to you all. It has been busy on TKO while I was partying in Vegas. I had no idea how stressed I was until I was out of the pressure cooker for a few days.
Todd, your news was a wonderful reason to celebrate and a fine evening and hangover was had by all. The weather was so perfect that we laid by the pool and recuperated. The show you recommended was sold out the one evening we had free. It is obviously a popular show and next time I will book ahead. We did go to see Zunamity and laughed and blushed our way through the show.
2much, I am so sorry but I hope your decision has given you peace of mind. You certainly have gone above and beyond to save your marriage.
Steph, going out on dates sounds like a great idea. Try to just enjoy the moments and see where they lead you.
Pio, It sounds like you need to sit down and have a long chat with your W. Maybe the date idea wouldn't hurt for you too? I think we all get way too busy in our everyday hectic life and forget romance.
Kiwi, did your daughter enjoy Vegas? Where is she now?
I'm sorry I know I am missing out on commenting on way too many people but it takes some catching up on 15 pages of posts.
I do have a little bit of news myself. The time I spent away was such a relief and I did manage time to myself. It was amazing how much clearer life can be when you step out of the mix for a few days.
I came home yesterday and informed my H that I want a separation. I will not continue to live like we have been. I have been trying so hard to forgive his lack of compassion and care for me while I was ill and his contempt for our marriage and honoring his vows. I finally can see that some things are just unforgivable - plain and simple as that. His continued infidelity did not erode the foundations of our marriage it swept them away.
He will move out this weekend. The boys are not as shocked as I would have thought and are I think, both sad and relieved. I am so incredibly sad that 21 years has led me here but I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders.
Sorry for all the typos it is hard to see through the tears I shed for all of us. I thank each of you for trying to help me but I think I found MB a little too late. No, in actual fact nothing would have worked a miracle. It is the happy memories that make it so hard to let go.
I actually am looking forward to no longer paying a PI to tell me what my H is doing. It is no longer my concern and that is a good feeling.
Ohhh...Beth....I'm sooooo sorry....as you know, many here KNOW how badly you are hurting.......
Have you thought of giving PLAN B a try? ...N/C with WS as long as there is contact with OW..... it was a life-saver for me..... not being in direct contact with WS (...would have preferred total, but some 'indirect' contact is needed due to boys DS10 & DS15)...
...because...unfortunately....due to the selfishness and lack of respect for others...contact with a WS can be very destructive.....
Pio , sometimes it's the "little" things that get us to act. I know this isn't "little" but while I was married it fit in as more of a quirk than what it is which is the inability for ex to be emotionally connected. ex did not call me by name for the entire time we were married nor did he have a pet name for me. Cold, cold, cold. Thisis why if refer to him as ex, no capital or the in front of ex. It shows the disrespect he showed me for 21 years.
Shawarmas sound gross. Between the flys & the added fat, ick. They sound like the Greek gyros except gyros are tasty. Do gyros pass your food names test Todd?
2much, yeah the white stuff in panties made me LOL & snort tea through my nose. What was the term starfish used...clittly litter? Hysterical. {{{2much}}}
Tripe IS NOT food. Once in Spain ex & I went out to lunch. We ate lunch together almost every day & that was great. I digress...While in a restaurant where English was not spoken we ordered the daily special. We saw people looking at us but thought it was because we were so clearly not from the neighborhood. We were served a mass of fat with sauce. We picked through it to find a speck of meat hidden within a honeycomb of fat. Makes me want to vomit just thinking about it. Thank goodness dessert was included in the meal or we would have starved. Well, that & wine.
Jen, you are mistaken, you do indeed have hicks in NZ. They are easy to spot & you have one fairly close to home. They wear black socks with sandals. I know you've said it's only the British who do that but I'm quite sure you're wrong.
Todd, thank you for the lyrics of the Jackson Brown song you posted, even if Pio objects. The verse that starts with "How long have I been sleeping..." hit particularly close to home.
I'm sorry to hear about the side effects you're experiencing from your treatments. Losing teeth is especially hard. Those can be fixed but how about the bone loss in the rest of your body? Does that limit what you can do on a daily basis? Is it something you can build back up?
Yesterday I went to my Dr. & had the whole array of STD tests done. Even though having an STD would prove ex was unfaithfull it would be too high a price to pay so I'm obviously hoping they come back negative. Send your positive thoughts my way please.
Time for bed. Tomorrow I start a new teaching job with 2nd & third graders. It's an enrichment class at a multicultural magnet school. Should be fun.
Here is something I'll throw out. I'm not totally convinced of the idea. I never used to do it but decided to try it once and it seemed to work. Part of it may depend on the climate. I think the colder it is, the better.
Gemela found years ago these design books for jack-o-lanterns. Really creative and intricate designs. While they look good ob paper and obviously sell books, they are really difficult to make. The books also come with dozens of plastic "needles" to punch holes in the pumpkin and a little saw to cut through like connect the dots. Sounds great and the 2 year old doing it on the book cover makes it look very simple - but its not. Pumpkins, like ToddAC, have very thick hides. And even after I finally made my first pumpkin creation this way, the light inside didn't show the design all that well.
So one day I got the bright idea to scrape the pumpkin very thin from the inside when I gutted it. First I took out all the intestines and then used a spoon to scrape and scrape the rind from the inside until it was only about 3/8" thick. Only then did I start punching and cutting. And it really does work. It is much easier to cut and look a whole lot better. The only problem is that in warm weather, it tends to shrivel much faster and look like Granny without her teeth in much sooner than an unscrapped pumpkin.
What I have not yet tried is to use my Sears Rotozip tool to carve out a jack-o-lantern but I am dying to try it. We are not getting any actual pumpkins this year because it is still hot and pumpkins here cost about $40 a piece.
Apparently I'm the only one "home" tonight, but welcome back, 2regret and I'm sorry about your sitch, but I'm glad you feel OK about the decision you made and I hope you are at peace with it. (((((((2regret)))))))
Pio, forget how WW feels about you eating the shanaigans, they sound very yucky and I wouldn't eat them either! I would fight her on it too.
I hope everyone else is OK, even though you are far away right now and not here in TKO land! I'll see you all in my morning!
Thank you so much for your concern and the hugs - they certainly are appreciated.
Luna, thank you for trying to help but my H has never been honest with me and it took the PI to unearth the truth. He has already moved his OW once to a new location. I know he would just do the same thing again.
I'm writing tonight to say goodbye to you all and to wish every one of you the very best. I have made my decision regarding my marriage and feel that I no longer have the right or need to be here on this board. Plus, I want TKO to return to being the happy site it once was. I am sorry that my post hurt anyone, that was my last intention but I'm glad you let me know.
I wish you all happiness and each of you will always be in my prayers.
You are a great man BigK and I wish I knew you, your heart obviously matches your name and your wife is a lucky woman.
I was sent an email from another poster which I very much appreciated. The poster pointed out how my post could be very hurtful to others on TKO. I am in a very good frame of mind BigK and have much faith in my future. I was being too selfish when I posted and only thought of myself and not the impact my words could have.
Please leave it alone now BigK as I don't want to be rude and ignore you if you post to me. I will actually be removing my name from the site as soon as I work out how to do it. lol
God bless you and yours BigK
Todd,
Sorry, I did not see your post I was too busy writing mine. I thank you also for your kindness to me. I am so happy that you had such positive news this last MRI.
I haven't managed to work out how to cancel my registration yet. It appears easier to join. Perhaps you are all correct and I will regret leaving. I will leave it a few days and see how it goes.
I know I am pretty emotional at the moment and maybe I should sleep on it. Thanks all, I am not normally a drama queen.
Can't sleep....thought I would join the 'night shift' for a while.
Quote
It's the current WS's we aren't too crazy about.
Exaaaaactly, BigK.
Quote
Send your positive thoughts my way please.
Done, Roger.
Quote
Time for bed. Tomorrow I start a new teaching job with 2nd & third graders.
Sweet dreams, Nams....uhmmm...guess you should be asleep by now!
Quote
I'm writing tonight to say goodbye to you all and to wish every one of you the very best. I have made my decision regarding my marriage and feel that I no longer have the right or need to be here on this board. Plus, I want TKO to return to being the happy site it once was. I am sorry that my post hurt anyone, that was my last intention but I'm glad you let me know.
Beth...why????? Who did your post hurt???? Hate to be a party-pooper...but I think your journey may have just started.... and you haven't quite yet gotten off the rollercoaster...although it will get better.....and it might be helpful to you to keep sharing with us...
Quote
We did NOT give you permission to leave.
Yup....I am with BigK....can't leave without our permission.... so there!
I was being too selfish when I posted and only thought of myself.
I am sorry to say...but I don't quite understand this..
...but if you don't feel it is helpful to you being here...that I do understand....
...please take care of yourself and remember that you are welcome to visit anytime...I for one would certainly like to hear how you are doing from time to time....
Thanks for pointing out my last post was confusing. I did an edit which I hope will clear it up. The person that emailed me wanted to remain anonymous and I was being careful to honor that.
I'm glad you all posted to me, I thought I had found a time that everyone was sleeping and I could just sneak away.
I can't work out how to resign so have decided not to be so emotional and act on the spur of the moment. It's nice to know that I can come slinking back with my tail between my legs.
What "upsetting" post is 2regret talking about? I leave for a few hours and I miss EVERYTHING!!!
How can you email someone and remain anonymous? Doesn't that kind of tip your hand? Well, actually I do have (stole) an email account that gemela and OM used. They don't seem to need it anymore so I figured - what the heck?
2regret,
This site isn't only about marriage building - it is just very inappropriately named. Don't leave. You may need friends through the pain/learning/pain/growing/pain process. Did I mention pain?
TKO would be a happy fun place if people would STOP POSTING COUNTRY AND WESTERN LYRICS!!!!!!!!!! My neighbor's wife had an affair. She left him. Then he lost his kids. He lost his job. I told him if his dog died, he would have a Country and Western hit. Guess what? His dog died a few days later.
The person that emailed me wanted to remain anonymous and I was being careful to honor that.
I guess this is the 'missing' link....I certainly can't think of anything you said that would be upsetting to anybody!
Quote
I know I am pretty emotional at the moment and maybe I should sleep on it.
Beth....Why wouldn't you be? ...Yeap...sounds like a good plan...I'll go get some sleep, too, if I want to be 'functional' tomorrow....
Quote
This site isn't only about marriage building - it is just very inappropriately named. Don't leave. You may need friends through the pain/learning/pain/growing/pain process. Did I mention pain?
I agree with Pio...keep this in mind...
Quote
I can't work out how to resign so have decided not to be so emotional and act on the spur of the moment. It's nice to know that I can come slinking back with my tail between my legs.
Why the need to resign? ...if you want to take time away from us...fine...and then come back whenever you want.... like...when you need.....a cyberhug
((((((((((BETH)))))))))))
Hi Pio...see you're quite busy with Halloween....Bye Pio!
Hey, you are good. You knew what would bring me out of my hole with my tail wagging instead of slinking in quietly with my tail between my legs.
No way I am sick of any of you. It was certainly nothing that any of you that post to me did. You have been far more welcoming than I imagined. I already love you all.
Yes, I did get an email telling me that I had caused a problem for a poster with my comments.
I gave my word I would not divulge the senders name and I will not. It was someone that cares about you all very much but I certainly have not meant to cause anyone pain and hated to think that I did.
Plus, I was looking at this site as being a support for marriage as Pio suggested and I guess I don't have one anymore.
I haven't been able to sleep tonight but now I will try again.
Honestly, if the criteria for being a part of TKO, or MB for that matter, meant that one has to have a marriage, well this place would be a ghost town of sorts.
We are the ugly aftermath, the afterbirth, of infidelity. We hobble together and pick each other up and allow ourselves to be picked up as needed. We are a community of caring folks who have been through a similar experience. I mean, heck, if you cannot find peace and acceptance here, where can you?
Anyway, welcome back. You did indicate that you are back, right?
I gave my word I would not divulge the senders name and I will not. It was someone that cares about you all very much but I certainly have not meant to cause anyone pain and hated to think that I did.
Beth....if we can 'survive' an A...I think we can handle any comments you might make...and let you know!
...I would actually would like to have a word or two with whoever wrote to you...'anonymously':
Dear 'anonymous',
please allow us the CHOICE to reply to any comments made here, if we feel the need to. I do not consider it 'caring' about anybody by going behind 'one's back...anonymously' and asking any MB poster to give up the right to be part of this thread if they want to be...but more importantly...you DO have the right to stop posting if anything said here offends you.
GGRRRRR!...I knew there was something FISHY about your post, Beth!
Quote
Plus, I was looking at this site as being a support for marriage as Pio suggested and I guess I don't have one anymore.
Beth?....have you ever read my signature line? Have had no direct contact with WS for over a year now! There would not be much of a board if that was the prerequisite! Again, I think Pio said it best....
Quote
This site isn't only about marriage building - it is just very inappropriately named. Don't leave. You may need friends through the pain/learning/pain/growing/pain process. Did I mention pain?
Beth...you will NEED a lot of support if you are taking the step you are taking...the rollercoaster ride has not ended, believe me.... and more importantly, please know that we WANT to be there for you...regardless of whatever whoever said to you, OK?
Ahh, feel the love for Beth, come on now everyone, GROUP HUG! Pony up the goods one now {{{{Beth}}}}
Absolutely stay Beth we value you input, your gentle voice & your outrage at your H when you voice it.
Perhaps the anonymous poster meant well but you're hearing from the TKO posters they were wrong.
If I can come to an infidelity thread & feel welcome here as a divorced person not 100% sure infidelity played apart in the demise of my marriage, you most certainly belong. No embarrassment either.
We all come here for our own reasons but comfort & understanding are a couple. I hope you get that here because you do provide that for others.
I know, the slowness drives me crazy. I'm guessing lots of others too since TKO has been so practically uninhabited lately.
Losing teeth! Wow Todd that sounds so extreme. Is it or that one of the expected side effects of your treatment?
Right now I'm home going through my pottery books picking out appropriate information for the kids I'll be working with today. One thing I know is I have to keep their hands off the materials for a while otherwise they will dive in with a vengence & the clay will be gone in a heartbeat. I'm trying to come up with something to present so as to stave them off yet not make them so bored they go running.
My oldest would say there some kind of conspiracy to the slowness here. He wouldn't be able to come up with a reason for the conspiracy just that's it's likely to be one. I hope he get over this kind of thinking fast.
You know the {{{}}}. I mean, you have to use the "shift" key anyway.
You are going to LOVE my explanation... my keyboard is set to French ....so I would have to dig the {{{}}} (using copy and paste right now) in options/special characters....or switch my keyboard back and forth from English.....
I do find the ((((((PIO)))))) somewhat minimalist and to the point, given the clean lines, and the {{{}}} have a more gothicky uncertain look.
The softness or strength of the cyberhug can easily be communicated by the number.
I personally am not seeing the 'link'...Nams, please enlighten me if there is any 'symbolic' meaning to Todd being a goose, thank you very much, in advance!
The teeth which broke off were as the result of the tumor depressing my hormone levels. My doc is also concerned about my spine, whatever you call it when you get something wrong with your spine. Fortunately, the structure of the teeth is still there so they can be capped. Two will have to be built-up and one will need a root canal. Grand total of $10,000. I should have been a dentist.
How are your glazes? Have you ever tried clay from Old Hickory?
I'm gonna up you all and give Beth and 2Much some squidges.
So squidges ya'll.
BTW: I can't remember who wrote the lovely...very visually appetizing bit about the tripe...Tripas is tripe here. BLECH. They make it into something equally vile called Menudo (not a band...which...yeah...was pretty vile). The old wives tale is that it is good for a hangover. My take is that I'd rather die from my hangover, thank you very much.
My left rear tire is more appetizing than menudo.
Don't get me started on ojo.
BTW: Sausage and cheese kolaches for breakfast...Todd...you wanna kolache?
So you want to talk glazes Todd? Maybe we should do that late at night so you'll be able to fall asleep. I imagine it's as exciting to a non-potter or non-chemistry lover as how a yarn knits. You're sweet to ask.
No, I've not tried clay from Old Hickory. Does it have some special claim to fame? If they have a truly black clay I'd love to try it. For the most part I use Laguna clays. I have two I work with, one very close to white, glazes look very nice on this one, the other tan with small manganese specks. Sometimes I like a red clay for a more rustic look. You sleepy yet?
Gotta go impart pottery wisdom to the little ones. Wish me luck!
OK, I may be a little late, but I'm going to chime in anyway.
Beth, DO NOT LEAVE TKO. Whoever sent you the email was a very selfish person to think that your posts are upsetting. This thread is not all about roses and peaches. It's to vent and get advice on the he11 that has become our reality. Trust me, if anything you say upsets anyone here we're sure to let you know and we have the ability to kick you off this thread ourselves (anyone remember fraidycat?).
I can't think of a single thing you've written that would have upset anybody here. You've been supportive to everyone here and kind and caring to boot. And we're all here to vent our frustrations and anger about our situations. If this was just a site/forum for marriages, nobody would be here...hardly any of us have marriages right now. Anyway, my point is, if something you have said offends any of us, we'll let you know. Until then, keep posting, you're going to need our support more than you know. Trust me on this.
{{{{{{{{{Beth}}}}}}}}}
BigK, I didn't mean to ignore you, I posted real quick and had to go to bed. I would have loved to talk to you. Apparently I need to change my sleeping habits...I miss all the drama overnight!
Hi All, Todd, what you said to Beth made me cry. Acceptance does that to you. [Todd]!
what about these? feijoada tapioca ensopado moqueca tucupi
What would you eat from the above? (tip: they are all good...)
Pio, I agree with some people. your love bank is low and you need to tell G how to deposit (dates, attention). Good luck!
I've been away also (North Carolina) and I've been reading the latest posts today. My heart goes to everyone that is having a difficult time. I guess we all ((((TKO)))))
Hey Stef - Yes please change your sleeping habbits and stop switching threads and we will be fine <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Beth - Glad you decided to come back.
Morning to everyone else. Sorry for starting the Tripe discussion Kimmy. I don't think there is any more vile food than Tripe and I use the term food very broadly here.
Okay, slow enough to post lyrics. Jackson Browne's "Here Come Those Tears Again".
Here come those tears again Just when I was getting over you Just when I was going to make it through Another night without missing you Thinking I might just be strong enough after all When I hear your footsteps echoing in the hall
Baby here we stand again Like weve been so many times before Even though you looked so sure As I was watching you walking out my door But you always walk back in like you did today Acting like you never even went away
Well I dont know if I can Open up and let you in baby Here come those tears Here come those tears again
I can hear you telling me How you needed to be free And you had some things to work out alone Now youre standing here telling me How you have grown
Here come those tears again Now youll tell me how to hold them in Here come those tears Here come those tears again
Some other time baby When Im strong and feeling fine maybe When I can look at you without crying You might look like a friend of mine But I dont know if I can Open up enough to let you in Here come those tears Here come those tears again Just walk away Im going back inside and turning out those light And Ill be in the dark but youll be out of sight
Todd, just wondering if the Tooth Fairy visited for those there teeth you lost???? I bet she brought MM...
(((((((Beth)))))))) sorry you are where you are but sounds like you have made a tough decision and can start moving in a set direction. Glad you are back.
Todd, can you quit posting lyrics? You are killing me...I am an emotional nightmare these past 72hr and you go and post the tears lyrics...what's a BS supposed to do? I'm hitting the RM tonight...just one serving but it's been that kinda day!
Technical Q: I have no earthly idea what WH spends his paycheck on...getting notices on his personal bills that they are overdue...same was happening with the household bills so I took over paying them (even though it has been with my $ all along he was the one sending the payments).
It is infuriating me wondering what exactly his $ is going to...of course OW but I want details on exactly what things etc. Do I just wait until lawyer gets copies of all bills or can a PI get detailed summaries of what items credit cards are being used on??? I hate to waste $ that I don't have just to satisfy my curiousity but I am allowing this to make me mental!
What is the best spyware for a computer that has lots of antispyware devices??? I am now gathering evidence in case there is any custody issues down the line. I have plenty of cutie nicey cards, notes etc but all are OW to WH. I have no evidence of anything except phone #s on cell bill for WH. If I could get text message contents I think I would be all set. I could always set up focus group interviews with all the OWs!!!
I had the greatest idea the other day...WH bday coming up...I think it would be great if I invited all the OWs to a surprise party for WH but they wouldn't know who was invited...could have exclusively for OWs which would be 10-12 I think...music would be all the love song CD's and then once WH arrived he could be roasted by all the OWs after I gave them a little run down on why they were all there since they should all get to know each other b/c of their common bond!!!! Whadda ya think?
Ok, so I have a little anger thing going on these days but good news is I haven't acted on it...yet...it's a pressure cooking though...
I have a job if I want it 700+ mi away...it sounds fantastic and the timing is perfect for my assignment end here. I wouldn't get sent away for any long period, only episodic 2-3 day travel. Excellent hours and would give me lots of quality time for the kids. I was told it would be the parfect job for a single parent. I am seriously considering it and looking into homes etc in that area.
I am dreading this transition period...I just want to get things handled and move on...too bad life isn't like that Huh?
Todd, just wondering if the Tooth Fairy visited for those there teeth you lost???? I bet she brought MM...
She did bring MM. As a medicine only to help with the pain……..
Quote
Todd, can you quit posting lyrics? You are killing me...I am an emotional nightmare these past 72hr and you go and post the tears lyrics...what's a BS supposed to do? I'm hitting the RM tonight...just one serving but it's been that kinda day!
I am sorry 2much. I will not post any more lyrics. Have just one serving of RM for me okay?
Quote
Technical Q: I have no earthly idea what WH spends his paycheck on...getting notices on his personal bills that they are overdue...same was happening with the household bills so I took over paying them (even though it has been with my $ all along he was the one sending the payments).
It is infuriating me wondering what exactly his $ is going to...of course OW but I want details on exactly what things etc. Do I just wait until lawyer gets copies of all bills or can a PI get detailed summaries of what items credit cards are being used on??? I hate to waste $ that I don't have just to satisfy my curiousity but I am allowing this to make me mental!
2much, bless your heart. The test of your patience seem endless. You can just about bet he is spending money on OW. Knowing what and where and when is not going to do you much good. That is, unless your attorney wants to get the records because it can help with asset division in your favor or perhaps even alimony or child support. One thought: if you clearly intend to file for D, you may want to go ahead and do so. By filing, at least in my state, assets are frozen and hopefully your state provides for child support in the interim. Also, every month that goes by is just more money being spent on OW instead of your kids. Moreover, after D, his obligation to pay child support is formalized and if he doesn’t pay, there are mechanisms to enforce payment.
Quote
What is the best spy ware for a computer that has lots of antispyware devices???
I may be a little confused on your question. If you mean software to block, detect and remove spy ware, and other malware, your best choice is Ad-Aware. You can download and use a free version but it does not provide a shield against malware so you resort to running a bunch of scans to keep it off your computer. I don’t remember the license fee, but it is very reasonable and you can get the full version of Ad--Aware which effectively shields malware. Don’t forget antivirus software. Best is AVG available at www.grisoft.com. There is a free version and a paid version. Subscription version provides tech support as well as priority updates.
Now, if you mean key logger software, there is one which is quite superior to the others. I cannot remember the name; will need to follow-up with it.
If you want to read the text messages off his cell, you will need a cable that connects his cell phone to a USB port on your computer. Software is available for download online. Again, let me know if this is your intent and I will get the website for you. This only works on cell phones which have SIM cards.
Quote
I am now gathering evidence in case there is any custody issues down the line.
This is a critical issue. Meet with your attorney and learn what evidence is admissible in court. Have you met with an attorney yet? If not, please do so immediately. There are many things you can do and refrain from doing, to help your case.
Quote
I had the greatest idea the other day...WH bday coming up...I think it would be great if I invited all the OWs to a surprise party for WH but they wouldn't know who was invited...could have exclusively for OWs which would be 10-12 I think...music would be all the love song CD's and then once WH arrived he could be roasted by all the OWs after I gave them a little run down on why they were all there since they should all get to know each other b/c of their common bond!!!! Whadda ya think?
You are on your own with this one. All I can say is you decide to do this, please capture it with your camcorder and share with us. I will furnish the popcorn.
Quote
Ok, so I have a little anger thing going on these days but good news is I haven't acted on it...yet...it's a pressure cooking though...
I have a job if I want it 700+ mi away...it sounds fantastic and the timing is perfect for my assignment end here. I wouldn't get sent away for any long period, only episodic 2-3 day travel. Excellent hours and would give me lots of quality time for the kids. I was told it would be the parfect job for a single parent. I am seriously considering it and looking into homes etc in that area.
I am dreading this transition period...I just want to get things handled and move on...too bad life isn't like that Huh?
How would job relocation affect WH’s custody? Again, this is an issue to run by your attorney. I am not saying don’t do it, just be sure to let your attorney know. You do not want to be legally blindsided in court.
While I was working OT, and taking in roommates to pay the bills, WH was spending as fast as he could. He insisted that the OW was not interested in his money.
I never did find out how he spent our life savings - but know that OW required a $500. tatoo, a trip to Hawaii, a cruise, and 1 carat diamond "engagement" ring.
Thanks bigK - the end of the fiscal year did me in. I spent so much time working, that at night, I just fell into bed. Did try to read a couple minutes every day though. Sure glad that is over.
Hi Todd... thanks for asking... hasn't started his 'treatments' yet....still waiting for his wound to heal...may take a few more weeks.
Quote
And, how are the "poles"?
Now...I admit...it might be late in the day....and am not quick...but for the heck of me can't think what you are referring to...
Getting excited about my trip to SF...just reserved hotel for my SF stay this week...reading up on the city 'attractions'... I could certainly use the break...
How about you? Will you be able to move out soon? If I am not mistaken, your assets were frozen... how long will it be before you can get some 'liquid' for future plans?
....looks like the tooth fairy doesn't come cheap....and can't eat soup forever...LOL!
Hey Stef - Yes please change your sleeping habbits
I'll do my best. Not much on staying up in the middle of the night, but if that's what I have to do to keep up... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Quote
and stop switching threads and we will be fine
You switch threads all the time. Learn to keep up! I've gotta keep you on your toes! Pay attention! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
WH called me this afternoon for no reason (again). He called again when he got off work. I was out shopping and he decided to come meet me. So we spent the evening shopping and had dinner and shopped some more. He's teasing me a lot about different things, but I think it's his version of flirting. Or he's nervous still to be around me, and that's how he's dealing with it. I don't know what his deal is yet. Overall it was a fine evening. I asked him about OW and he said he still talks to her at work and doesn't see anything wrong with just talking to her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I don't know about the frog keyboard but you can get a lot of characters through the <Alt> key with the numeric keypad. I get Spanish characters that way. On my keyboard, for example, I can get the ñ character by holding down the <Alt> key and pressing "164" on the numeric keypad. The character mapping depends on which keyboard configuration you use but this has always been a feature of DOS since the beginning. You can probably get the "{" just by finding the correct number sequence. You shouldn't have to use the character map or change keyboard settings. The numbers 0-127 are pretty standard since they are based on the ASCII system but above that they change by language setting. Microsoft created this ASCII extension back in DOS 1.0.
Firstly I am lost for words to thank you all for every kind post addressed to me today. I will never forget the compassion and understanding showered upon me. I was so sad yesterday and the email I received just pushed me over the edge. I was already feeling so guilty for deciding to end my M and for ending our family unit such as it is.
I guess you all knew where I was on this roller coaster and I didn't recognize the scenery. It would take me hours with the speed I write to thank you all individually, so just as the TKO group - Thank you with all my heart. I sat here crying my eyes out reading each post. But it was a "good" cry! When I am ready to leave next time I will of course seek permission. LOL
2Much,
I just had to reply to your post. I guess you and I are in a similiar situation at the moment. My H is a lawyer and a very good one. He is always frustrated when his clients do not seek his advice early enough. It is vital and I stress vital for you to seek legal representation as soon as possible. He will inform you of all your rights and anything you should be doing etc.
Of course I am currently searching for a lawyer that has crossed paths with my H and come out victorious or very angry.
I haven't used a keylogger as my H keeps his computer in his office and I have no access to it. I have heard that one called Spector Pro is very good. I would hold off on purchasing one though until after you consult a lawyer, it maybe an unnecessary expense.
You sound like such a strong,compassionate, together woman 2much. I know you will do well and I wish you only the very best.
Todd,
Do you do requests? Can you post something that will give us all hope of true love and happiness in the future?
Now...I admit...it might be late in the day....and am not quick...but for the heck of me can't think what you are referring to...
I am sure it is the fault of my memory. When you were at your parent's and your car wouldn't start, I thought you had referred to the battery terminals as "poles". I guess by asking you if had any "pole" problems, I was asking if you had other car problems.
Quote
Getting excited about my trip to SF...just reserved hotel for my SF stay this week...reading up on the city 'attractions'... I could certainly use the break...
Yes, if I had SF lined up, I would be excited also. I am at the point where I need a history book just to remind me what SF means.
Quote
How about you? Will you be able to move out soon? If I am not mistaken, your assets were frozen... how long will it be before you can get some 'liquid' for future plans?
Assets are not frozen at this point but they will be once I file. I do have access to funds since DS3 is my financial advisor, lol. Of more concern is the rather large sum of money missing. I am having that researched as we speak.
Quote
....looks like the tooth fairy doesn't come cheap....and can't eat soup forever...LOL!
Does not come cheap. MM is anything but cheap. I can eat just about anything. Well, maybe not steak. Or calamari. But that's for different reasons.
Don't forget to go around all night saying "the end justifies the means." which wasn't said by Dosteovsky (shoot, can't spell it) BTW as I do believe I pointed out to you once.
NZ chefs have learned how to cook calamari without making it taste like rubber.
Well the question that comes to my mind is how you could possibly know that? There is, of course, only one answer. Naturally this brings up another question which I cannot answer.
Beth, you did not make the choice to break up your family. Your H made that choice by stepping outside the M to make himself feel better. Regardless of your contribution to a M that creates an atmosphere where one is unhappy, your H took the step to act on that unhappiness by cheating. That's him making the choice to shatter the foundation rather than work to strengthen it.
2much, I wrote you last night about my experience with gathering info. but it didn't post.
Here's my shortened version: Because I suspected ex cheated my att. requested cell phone & credit card records. His phone was a co. phone & his c.c. was his alone & the bill was not comming to the house at the time I wanted it, he'd had it sent to work.
ex was asking me to assume half of his over $50,000 debt. Att. said no not without seeing the charges. ex never provided that & ended up assuming the whole debt himself. He may have been hiding money, taking a cash advance than looking for me to take half that or he may have had charges relating to gf. I'll never know. The point being, att. can ask for whatever they want but only a judge can force.
Get yourself the best attorney you can afford, one that comes recommended by other's who have D & feel they've gotten what they deserve & will protect you & your children. Do not deal with ex in any negotiation. Let your att. do it for you. This way you are not pit against your H in battles, it is through a third party though with you full knowledge & consent. I does come in handy to be able to say the att. advised you to this & that rather than you looking like the bad guy. Let your H's inevitable anger be directed more at your att. than you.
The one certain thing is D brings out the worst in people & you're likely to see even worse sides to your H than you already have.
The sad fact is that in the end when you D your marriage becomes all about money.
Todd, can't you protect assets while separated or is that you've not wanted to formalize that step therefore your assets aren't protected?
During my D I saw a very ugly side of ex. He was convinced I was out to screw him so instead of working out an agreement between our att. ex forced a hearing before the judge to decide what he thought was fair regarding money & asset distribution. The judge came up with more than we were asking & ex was stunned. I'll admit I got some pleasure at seeing his face drain of blood & him stammering with his att. He was convinced because he was unhappy & wanted out & was reasonbale for wanting that things should be done the way he saw fit. Arrogance. I could have gotten more but I really only wanted what I thought I would need.
I was looking for enough money to stay in our home, which ex said he wanted, enough for me to have time to go back to school so I would be more marketable. Not money for school though I'd worked while he finished his schooling, just money enough so I wouldn't have to have a full time job & go full time to school. Money makes people do ugly things.
If your WW has taken money this may be the beginning of the ugliness. Please protect yourself. Nothing will kill any lingering feelings you may have left for your spouse during a D than seeing them fight over money & material things.
I went into town this AM to buy some transparency paper to finish another Halloween idea of WW. The store was closed due to Eid. She decided since I was going to town that she would send me to another store to buy felt. I got that. I got home and was tired. I have been really depressed the past few days. Wanting to ask for divorce kind of depressed. So I walk in and see that WW has been outside gardening. Before I left, the decided they were going to make strawberry cheese cupcakes.
When I got back, the box was still on the counter. DD2 comes in and says that mommy told her to tell me to make the cupcakes because mommy was tired. I told DD2 to tell mommy that I was not here simply to complete tasks that she starts but decides she no longer wants to do. Tell mommy that if she promised to make the cupcakes, then she needs to make the cupcakes because I'm not going to. What I didn't know was that WW was in the kitchen at the time and heard it all. She never said a word and she immediately made the cupcakes. They turned out pretty good. I certainly enjoyed mine.
Believer...does that mean we will see more of you around here? I hoooopppe so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Why yes I am. I'm going as Niccolo Machiavelli.
...say hi to Leonardo if you run into him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Quote
When I am ready to leave next time I will of course seek permission. LOL
OUHHH!.....Glad to see you came to your senses, Beth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Quote
you had referred to the battery terminals as "poles". I guess by asking you if had any "pole" problems, I was asking if you had other car problems.
Oh..I see...I didn't check my post...think I called them 'heads'...and Pio something similar to 'têtes'...and was very surprised to see Pio did not know the right 'term'!
so...Todd....are they called 'terminals'....please set me straight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
About the car... at this point, it travels with the boys and they are with WS...I believe WS will have it checked.....the last thing I noticed, it was making a big noise...think it may have been the....muffler!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Note that the Booker's is very expensive but is unfiltered and uncut, i.e. excactly as it comes out of the hand selected barrels. All very tasty stuff.
Assets are not frozen at this point but they will be once I file... Of more concern is the rather large sum of money missing..
Uhmmmm....Todd?...does this mean that WS has access to assets? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Hi Luna,
Legally, yes, there is nothing preventing WW from accessing assets. On a practical level, DS3 is our financial advisor, and as the gatekeeper, he will never let her have access to any money. He is aware of the missing assets and in fact, is helping with asset scans.
WW has a terrible, terrible spending addiction. She has borrowed over $5,000 from friends to support her habit.
On a more positive note (pun intendeded) my error with the "poles". You did say heads. I seem to recall a reference to poles but who knows?
Yes, they are called terminals. A battery is little more than a circuit, filled with plates and a very nasty acid. Current flows from negative to positve and the terminals offer the opportunity for user interface and control. Not to mention completing the circuit.
Don't encourage him Booka, we're trying to keep him off the alcohol. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Welcome to TKO, I've noticed you reading here.
I tend to think of it as pain medication...
KiwiJ,
Thanks for the welcome. I mainly hang out in Emotional Needs (I have a current thread there) but have been enjoying this thread for quite a while. Greetings from the confluence of the Mississippi, Missouri, and Illinois rivers.
I've appreciate for some time now the witty (sometimes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) banter that goes on here. It has given me relief at times. This is certainly one of the most diverse threads as far as membership goes. I alo greatly enjoy some the the technical talk.
I have one question, though, perhaps the greatesst and most significant question ever posed on this thread (actually, I think it has been asked bedore, but perhaps not answered).
Ready?
Why does Pio use an electric blanket in SA?
I been puzzled by this for some time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Precisely. Good to see the addition of yet another logical mind to the fold. As they say where I live: it won't rust, bust, crust, corrode or explode and crawls on its belly like a reptile.
Quote
Why does Pio use an electric balnket in SA?
I can answer this but feel the need to be gingerly. I consider TKO to be like a family of sorts. Do you know how every family has its little "secrets"? Like in my home family, it was well-known, but never discussed, that my paternal Grandmother's balcony was missing a few tiles. The reason Pio "thinks" he needs an electric blanket is because he has been led to believe that SA means Southern Antarctica. Once that thought was implanted, well, he just started shivering.
Note that the Booker's is about 2X the price of MM and is in bottle that would remind you more of a wine bottle than anything else. One might make a rather painful mistake confusing wine with Booker's. I instructed the household that no one, and I mean no one should touch that bottle other than I. I think I negeleted to mention the Knob Creek, which is also good stuff. Yes, my cabinet is full. I just recently rekindled my interest in bourbon. It's nice that they have such good product now.
Now was that your paternal Grandmother's metaphorical balcony, or did she have an issue somewhat along the nature of the beginning of "Ben Hur"?
Do they have sand in Southern Antarctica? Perhpas when all of the glaciers are melted, they'll have some fine beach-front property. I wonder in penguins can surf?
Does Pio's blanket run on 120 (warm) or 220 (toast)?
Thanks to all who posted specifics for me (you know who you are), I greatly appreciate your pearls of wisdom!
Booka, thanks for the booze review...I will need to postpone plans to taste test until the pocket allows:) I used to enjoy Scotch as my #1 beverage of choice about a decade ago...prekids. Since then I stuck to my glass of wine/night...am just now revisiting the bourbans...I have to say that my favorite spiked Egg Nog made with Kentucky bourban usually makes it's preview right around now.
Pio...nice costume idea...will G wear the testicular cancer screening match? Why do you use an electric blanket? Is it your severe anemia or the reptilian cold blooded beast in you?
Believer and Beth...welcome back
Stph...keep harraassing BK-he loves it
Where is Larousse???
Todd, by the time I had RM #1 I was mellow enough to contend with WH...I have deferred RM#2 for this evening in honor of you
Kiwi, I wish I could taste some of your cook'in...sounds like you are one mean chef...I LOL everytime I see you tell Todd..."You would eat my goulash, You would eat my calamari, you would eat my slaw...." You're killing me:)
I appreciate all of the support and encouragement...no where near sainthood...St. Elsewhere was one of my favorite shows back in the day though...does that count? I also liked St. Elmo's Fire...I went to a school named St. Rosalia...I work on the corner of St.Clair...I never cared for Susan St. James...
I have had my oven on for 2 hours with nothing in it...I had all these great intentions of baking a cake...I should contract it out to Gemela. Cheer up Pio...I think the anticlimactic "I'm Home" is in effect...it will wear off and you can make some real headway...it's just that the intent hasn't caught up with the actions yet...give it time. You've invested this much time, what's a few more weeks/months in the big scheme of things (does that sound familiar???)
All of the bourbons I mentioned are really too good for egg-nog. In fact, the only way I like to drink them is on the rocks. Southern Comfort would be good for the egg-nog. It might take quite a bit of bourbon to get me to taste egg-nog.
Now if you want to get into a wine discussion, begging ToddAC's indulgence (I wouldn't want a discussion of wine to cause ToddAC an pain), then we can really talk.
I really have no experience with scotch. I would like to try something that's really good. Good scotch can really get pricey.
It's certainly good oven weather here.
I hope everyone has a good night (and day where it applies).
...the only terminals I knew of before were...airport terminals...
uhmmmm....don't suppose you could come up with a link between the two.
and...thanks to you, Todd, tonight I will go to sleep a little bit smarter...LOL!
Quote
Why does Pio use an electric blanket in SA?
...to confuse us, what else, Booka?
Actually....my theory is that its a 'symbol' of the powerstruggle between Pio and G.
OTOH...I like Todd's explanation....
That reminds me...Pio? ...have you had to 'fold' the electric blanket on your side since G. has been back?
Quote
Thanks for the welcome. I mainly hang out in Emotional Needs (I have a current thread there) but have been enjoying this thread for quite a while. Greetings from the confluence of the Mississippi, Missouri, and Illinois rivers.
Greetings back to you, Booka....
A little intro. would be very much appreciated...like, what would you like us to know about you?
Well....thank you all for.... giving me this 'alone' time and travel back to 'memory lane'....
Now, another well known Italian singer is Adriano Celentano..... and here are the lyrics of one of my favourite songs:
" Il Ragazzo della via Gluck " by Adriano Celentano
Questa e` la storia di uno di noi anche lui nato per caso in via Gluck in una casa fuori citta` gente tranquilla che lavorava La` dove c'era l'erba ora c'e` una citta` e quella casa in mezzo al verde ormai dove sara`?
Questo ragazzo della via Gluck si divertiva a giocare con me ma un giorno disse, vado in citta` e lo diceva mentre piangeva io gli domando amico, non sei contento? vai finalmente a stare in citta`. La` troverai le cose che non hai avuto qui potrai lavarti in casa senza andar giu` nel cortile!
Mio caro amico, disse, qui sono nato e in questa strada ora lascio il mio cuore. Ma come fai a non capire che e` una fortuna per voi che restate a piedi nudi a giocare nei prati mentre la` in centro io respiro il cemento. Ma verra` un giorno che ritornero` ancora qui e sentiro` l'amico treno che fischia cosi`, "wa wa"!
Passano gli anni, ma otto son lunghi pero` quel ragazzo ne ha fatta di strada ma non si scorda la sua prima casa ora coi soldi lui puo` comperarla torna e non trova gli amici che aveva solo case su case, catrame e cemento. La` dove c'era l'erba ora c'e` una citta` e quella casa in mezzo al verde ormai dove sara`
La la la... la la la la la... Eh no, non so perche` perche` continuano a costruire le case e non lasciano l'erba, non lasciano l'erba, non lasciano l'erba, non lasciano l'erba, eh no, se andiamo avanti cosi` chissa` come finira`, chissa`...
I will spare you all...and NOT cite another song...
...yes, you are welcome.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
...I will just leave to go see a CSI episode that luckily I have not yet seen....boy!...they are getting gorrier and gorrier.....by the season! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
...hopefully someone will turn up...as they say....sooner or later!
...or you will leave me no option but to continue travelling 'memory lane'...the best I can do is change category... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I have to confess a preference for good Prosseco, no champagne has won to it's dryness. it seems there is a new marketing strategie between French Champagne makers where they are not adding sugar to the 'aging' process, which will make champagne similar to humble Prosseco. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
BK, I read an article about the lack of water in the koalas woods and how they are invading the suburbs pools and gardens. It seems they are not very smart or caring of their kids but why do you say they are nasty?
2Much, I'm sorry things are scalating. You seem so much in control of the situation. You mentioned that you were feeling the repressed anger. The most wise words I have heard, or the most helpful, about anger control came from Dr. Harley on his radio program. He says that the most effective way to deal with anger is to simple understand that it has no place in your life. He compares anger and angry outburst to insanity and insists that the step from what we called 'justified' anger to an action that could harm others and ourselves, is extremely small. His approach is NO tolerance to angry reactions. He says that, while we learn to not to react in anger, we have to have an inmediate inner option to relax: The proverbial breathing, walking away, hearing music, reading, etc.
He says that with time we learn to express our worries and complains in a clear, descriptive, no acusatory and respectful way, simple because we know we no longer have the cop out of the angry outburst.
With time anger outburst dents the emotional security that the SO, significant other, or Spouse found in us.
I know in the case of affairs the justified indignation and hurt flies high and some people think it's better to lash it out on the WW or WS. I just wanted to share with you those Harley's ideas. I have found them very liberating.
Booka,
finally you have reached the price to buy Todds antiFrenchness. Obviously living between two rivers and a Frenchised region you would have been bashed by Todd inmediately but it's obvious that you have touched his soft spot for that kind of liquid painkillers. Kuddos for bringing the very important issue of the electric blanket. I was wondering if Pio was quiet about it because G had used it to keep her beautiful garden warm at night.
Nam,
I know nothing about ceramic but it's 'sweet' for lack of better term, to see your pasion about it and the many tinny details it involves.
Kiwi,
I agree with 2Much, you make your cooking sound so delicious, at the very least you should have been PR of a high flight restaurant.
Estrelinha,
I love moqueca the peixe, specially the ones made in Bahia, ahahaha. Feijoada is slightly similar to something we call in Mx frijoles charros, like Cowboy Beans, lol althout Feijoada has more beef. Estrelinha how would you call aipim frito in English. I could eat it every day with a caipirinha. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Delan,
it's interesting the food comments you have arised because it shows how even if we don't notice it, cultures move, evolve. The 'arabe' kitchen arrived to Spain during the 800 years they dominanted the, until 1492, unexistant Spain Crown. It came to America during the Conquest and here is mixed with our wounderful array of vegetales and legumes. Potato, tomato, vainilla, avocato, herbs... Mexican pre Spanish cuisine existes still in a diet of amazing numbers of green leaves plants, cactus, flowers and insects. Since the 90's Mexico has enjoyed a renasance of the ancient cooking in a movement called La Nouvelle Cuisine Mexicaine. Cactus as nopales are used to combate and control diabetes. Other cactus called bisnaga is used to make a delicius dry fruit, very nutritive because of it's fibre.
Here the use of sheep as been substitute by beef. When sheep is used it is called Barbacoa, cooked underearth, wrapped in cactus 'arms'. What you call Menudo, is also called Pancita, is made of beef and exists in tree diferent varieties depending of the chile used. Menudo is the lining of the stomach, as BK pointed out, extremelly well cleaned and twice boiled,. You can choose between the muscles of the stomach or a mixture with other soft tissues but never in a Menudo would you find the actual tripe, aka, intestines. The Pancita is presented in a brot or soup, the firm pieces in it, no liquified and no fat added.
It's absolutely magnificent for hangovers because it rehidrats and remineralize the body and the chile acelerates the metabolism giving a sensation of recovery. Lol.
My point is: Mexican cuisine is between the five more sofisticated of the world. it shows our history, our geographical contrasts and our social conditions and a pasion for seeds, flowers like the vainilla flower, leaves and cactus, that seems almost 'poetic' to me. Dishes as our Pancita is of obvius arabe origin, modified for the Spaniards as well as our Tacos al Pastor, Lebanese Kebap with no fat added, beef meat marinade in another chile and seed mixture called axiote and put to grill. It can have and has it's share of flies around, and other foreing objects and runs the same risks Pio mentions of being served not well cooked. But no fat added, thank you very much. Lol.
Stph, you are doing great !
Believer,
it's great that you are back, I was afraid that Pio's pink shorts had traumatized for ever.
Pio, Sorry if you had mentioned it before: Why don't you and G plan your daily activities beforehand more?
Todd, I know nothing about legalities but Nam strategies sound good. You said TKO was like a family. Look, I really wouldn't prefer to be orphan to have you all nice people as family, if it were the case but... I'm very concern who's who? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Kiwi would be taking us to bunch of expensive restaurants. Pio would makes us train since 5 am. Todd would make us a bunch of anti Galians with little botles of scotch under the arm. Nam would sit on us to teach us pottery. Luna would take us to long trips where the car would broke down in the middle of nowhere. Cinderela and all the distant relatives of the Femenine products thread would make us feel in constant abandon and chastitising. BK would be the oficial chaperone and make our dating life a ******. Beliver would make us have cows and grow epazote in the backyard. Poor little me would became a writer to tell the 'Unmistakable Story of TKO and It's Fantastics Adventures Out of Affair Mud'.
That long tirade about food made me want to prepare a delicious corn's fungus soup with epazote. Don't want to gross y'all out with that 'nasty' blue growing thing that in winter can reach 30 dls the kg.
I read an article about the lack of water in the koalas woods and how they are invading the suburbs pools and gardens. It seems they are not very smart or caring of their kids but why do you say they are nasty?
Quite right Stef. I get as much sex as I can handle from my wife. I have no clue about sexual frustration. Mind you for around a month after d-day I thought I would die.
Sorry BigK, I'll check in more often. I don't mean to worry you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I've been busy with WH and work and stuff.
Quote
Quite right Stef. I get as much sex as I can handle from my wife. I have no clue about sexual frustration.
Feel free to rub it in, I'm feeling no pain right about now!
Quote
Mind you for around a month after d-day I thought I would die.
How ever did you manage to go a whopping whole month?!? It's already been, what, 5 weeks since my ban and there's no end to it in sight! And the rabbit is no substitute!
I didn't check my post...think I called them 'heads'...and Pio something similar to 'têtes'...and was very surprised to see Pio did not know the right 'term'!
I believe the generally accepted long form is "terminal posts" (which I did know). But since you called them "têtes" in you franch way, I was just surprised you didn't use another french word that sounds a little similar tto "têtes" but would be a closer visual match to what is on the battery. Back where I come from, we call them that too.
How ever did you manage to go a whopping whole month?!? It's already been, what, 5 weeks since my ban and there's no end to it in sight! And the rabbit is no substitute!
Funny - in 24 years of marriage the longest we have ever been separated is 3 weeks when I went to India. whenever we are together, sex is very regular. Never more than a few days between so 4 weeks was torture.
The country of Saudi Arabia is generally 220V, 50 Hz power like most of the world. The town/camp/city where I live is an island of 120V 60 Hz power or, more specifically, is wired like houses in the USA where most things run on 120V except for major appliances like the oven, clothes dryer and the AC.
Electricity is actually transferred around any country at very high voltage and in three phases. The higher the voltage, the lower the voltage drop or power loss in the lines. Before it enters your home, it is transformed down to the voltage your house needs. In the USA (and in my house) two out of the three phases are wired into the house and each one is 220V. But in the USA (like here) those two 180 degrees out of phase (one phase has to be shifted 60 degrees in the transformer as the three phases are 120 degrees out of phase). Each of the two 220V phases is wired to one side of your breaker box. Then it is wired into the house in reference to ground which cuts the 220V in half to 110V (120V).
Some places set the voltage a little higher than others because there is additional loss in the house wiring from the breaker box to your electrical device. The amount of voltage drop depends on the amperage of the device, the length of the wiring between the breaker panel and the device and the size of the wire (AWG). For example, if you are working in your garden and trying to operate an electric lawn mower (who would?) with a 100 foot extension cord but you were too cheap to buy a good 10 or 12 AWG cord and bought a 20 AWG cord instead, your poor little lawn mower would be hobbling along at about 80 volts and really struggling to work.
I think NEMA standards require any electrical device to operate correctly within 10% of its rated voltage. So a 120V appliance should operate correctly anywhere from 108V - 132V by that standard.
Now the fact that we are a 120V enclave in a 220V world means it is difficult to get appliances and we generally import. One good thing about electronics (TV's, computers, stereos, etc.) here is that manufacturers always put in a switching power supply. This costs about $5 more but means you can plug the thing in without having to worry about the voltage. This is one of my grievances with the USA. They never ever do that there.
As far as whether appliances work better on 120V or 220V, there is really no difference. 220V is more dangerous to work with and has a slightly better chance of killing you if you get shocked. The difference is that 220V appliances suffer less voltage drop in the wiring because they have half the amperage of their 120V counterpart.
Frequency is another matter. The difference between 50Hz and 60 Hz is important when things run with electric motors. Whether the motor is synchronous or asynchronous, it's operating speed will be in direct proportion to the power frequency. Trying to run a 220V motor on 120V (using a stepdown transformer to correct the voltage) can burn the motor up because it will run hotter due to the higher speed. It depends on the case. Sometimes I do it and sometimes not. Depends what the motor is and also how long I need to run the motor.
Now, Saudi Arabia is hot. But we have unlimited fossil fuels and power is cheap. So everything is air-conditioned. My office is generally somewhere between 61-63 farenheit. We have to keep the house cool and the upstairs gets a lot of sun. At night, after sunset, the temperature goes way down and it gets cold. So I use an electric blanket so I can adjust it in the night rather than add/remove blankets as the need arises. I did fold the blanket over onto my side before gemela got home but she folded it back. It has stayed on the bed. Nobody here pays for electricity so we just cool the heck out of everything. It is the only way to survive the summers here.
Once again, feel free to rub it in!!! You're killin' me here! I'm about ready to make a phone call to WH...
No, I haven't tried a rabbit, I never had the need. I was plenty satisfied with the real thing!
I haven't been up to much with WH. But he's why I wasn't on here very long last night. We went shopping last night, talked for a little while on the phone tonight...I vented about work and he listened. I plan on driving from Illinois to Florida in February and he doesn't like the idea of me doing that by myself. It made me feel good to hear that he worries about me still. But I still plan on doing it. He knows he can't stop me if I really want to go (and I do).
Hopefully you will be able to do that road trip together Stef. And stop switching threads dammit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
No, the road trip won't be together, unfortunately. I'll be going to visit my grandparents and we won't be near ready for him to face my family in 4 months.
And pay attention to where I'm at and don't ignore my other thread dammit!
So I'm not important enough to look for??? Dammit.
It's not my fault nobody else wants to post on my thread. Sorry I'm not as entertaining as TKO... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Just a really quick visit to ask everyone for prayers for my brother inlaw and every other fireman on the face of this earth. They are such brave souls.
We have a really bad wildfire near Palm Springs and the Santa Ana winds are still blowing. So sadly, four firemen were lost and another is critical when the wind changed direction on them.
Hope it is okay for me to do this request here but I believe strongly in the power of prayer.
Hummmmm.....watched my CSI then fell asleep....and missed my 'window of opportunity'... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Hi Larousse!
I was worried about you...where have you been?
I agree with Dr. Harley....making 'angry outbursts' a non-option would force us to seek out more healthier means of communicating...
Geesh....between Todd, Booka, 2much and Larousse.... I really feel I am missing out on these 'liquid painkillers'..... (while having a little sip of my little old GM, that would be Grand Marnier!) ...I see I gotta a lot of catching up to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
BigK???!! Would you mind stop rubbing it in with the SF, please!!! ...although in a few weeks I am in fact going to SF...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
uhmmmm....stph20...how much do you know about cars?
Some venting: My big boss has had health issues in past couple of years...so been doing some 'handholding'...that would be in addition to dealing with his 'anxiety issues'....
Now I found out that his re-appointment maybe questioned... and expect this to do nothing to improve his high 'anxiety' level.... I may be required to increase the 'handholding'.... the only problem is.... his reappointment comes up in TWO years! ....so...I am a little discouraged.... when I took the job... nowhere did it say anything about 'handholding' your boss....
...in case any of you may be reading anything into the 'handholding' part (why would I think that?)...let me clarify...my male boss has a same sex life partner
Pio...thanks for the explanation about the electrical stuff in SA... it will be very helpful to know the day I move out to SA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I know Luna - I was actually referring to the other detail you mentioned but really don't need to be typecast as homophobic if ya know what I mean.....
Larousse....any reason why you don't 'out' the poster who has been 'harrassing' you?
I certainly would like to know who it is...as I said to you in your thread.... I certainly forget sometimes that ANYONE can read us! Thanks...I need to be reminded of it from time to time... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I know Luna - I was actually referring to the other detail you mentioned but really don't need to be typecast as homophobic if ya know what I mean.....
Luna - sort of what I was asking as well. Beth too - would love to know who was hassling her too.
...but don't all emails have a 'sender's' name of some sort? ...I see....anyone can have any number of email address to hide behind....
We should have CSI or Criminal Minds team check it out.... they would be able to 'trace' the emails back to the 'source'....get an address....show up at the door.... and 'take them in' for harrassment....and for being a danger to the general public..... yes....unfortunately...I do watch too many of those shows! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well...I will need to go and get my sleep....have a big day ahead....
I am participating in a workshop tomorrow....and you will never guess what it's on.... HARRASSMENT....LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I don't care for GM unless it is used as a component in a margarita. Even then, I would probably prefer Cointreau. But, I've found a better solutuion than both of the above, whether to be used as a shot or in margaritas. And, it's more economical than both. Patron makes some very good tequilias. They also make an orange liquor called Citronage. Now, this will certainly be sweeter than GM. If you don't like some measure of sweetness, than Citronage is not for you. GM, by the way, has a base of brandy. I've had it straight-up but really don't care for it that way.
How cold does it get at night in SA (in fahrenheit please)?
I'm a software guy (28+ years, started when I was a baby!) but have a pretty good understanding of electricy. Why does your compound run on 120V/60Hz rather than the 220V/50Hz?
All right, I don't know what you all would be interested in as a general introduction.
I live near St. Louis Missouri with the wife and DD13. This area is not Frenchified, although it was settled by the French. All that is left of the French are some mispronounced place names. The big waves of immigration in this area were the Germans and the Italians.
I'm 47 (just turned) and have generally low mileage, except fo this year. I'm 6'2" 210 pounds with blond hair and blue eyes. I may have more tools than Pio. I enjoy wine, cooking , bourbon, remodelling, maragaritas, film, beer, music, water, reading, sake, gardening, espresso (but not coffee), Mexican and Italian foods. I'm been employed 28+ years with the same company whose main objective is software packages for rural electric cooperatives throughout the US.
I have a lengthy thread on Emotional Needs entitled "I've joined Holdingontoit's club and I'm not happy about it. I need some help...".
We are probably 120V because this used to be an American company. 60 Hz is generally a much more intelligent and economical way to operate than 50 Hz. If all you are operating is a toaster, it doesn't much matter. But anything with a motor in it runs much better at 60 Hz. Problem is motors designed for 50 Hz may not have enough cooling capacity when run at 60 Hz or, if they are cheap enough, might even saturate the laminations. I believe line losses are lower at 60 Hz than at 50 Hz. I'm not sure why 50 Hz was ever invented. Maybe I'll google it.
Hi Larousse, I am sorry that someone has also sent you unwelcome emails. I certainly admire your handling of the situation though. I hope your post sends that person back into the hole they crawled out of.
Hi Luna, How is your dad doing? Is his wound healing now?
ToddAC, I miss your songs and still wish you would post one that is full of love and hope for the future. I usually download the songs that are posted, it's interesting and certainly expands my collection. Have you spoken to your youngest son yet? Or did I miss that while I was in Vegas?
Piojitos, I love your choice for Halloween. I have been trying to remember another quote of his and all I can remember is that love and fear cannot exist together. Maybe Kiwi will be able to complete it for me?
Steph, I think you are incredibly lucky to be going on dates with your H. I'm glad that you both want to do that and I hope it works out well for you.
Booka, I am also new to TKO but welcome. With your physical description you belong over here on the west coast. I am sure the men on here will love having someone else to discuss "things" with. I'm always looking for a good wine, preferably a red so I would love to hear some recommendations.
BUT, now onto BigK and Steph
Do you think you could do me a favor ? Next time you two discuss the fact that you climb the walls after a month of abstinance, could you please remember me? Whisper or go outside to discuss the matter. Thanks, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how long it has been! LOL (well not really!)
Wildfire wise the Santa Ana winds still rage and the fire spreads but so far away from homes - good news.
Give me and idea of what you like in red wine and what your price range would be per bottle.
I'm sure that there are some good records for abstinence around here. That's the basic reason that I'm on this site. You long-timers can laugh at my 33-days without. It is a record for me, though not an enviable one.
Sorry Kim, I knew I was missing someone. Thanks for the cushion offer. I have three son - drool is nothing! There are far too many nucking futs people in this world.
uhmmmm....stph20...how much do you know about cars?
Not much...why?
Quote
I live near St. Louis Missouri
ME TOO!!! I'm in Illinois though. Nice to meet you Booka!
Quote
Steph, I think you are incredibly lucky to be going on dates with your H. I'm glad that you both want to do that and I hope it works out well for you.
Thanks. I'm having a pretty rough day with it today though. I'm just tired of him coming and going and not making any decisions and thinking it's OK. Today I feel like I could be done with everything.
Quote
BUT, now onto BigK and Steph
Do you think you could do me a favor ? Next time you two discuss the fact that you climb the walls after a month of abstinance, could you please remember me? Whisper or go outside to discuss the matter. Thanks, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how long it has been! LOL (well not really!)
This is ALL on BigK! He's the one with the bragging rights, he won't let me have any! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Wildfire wise the Santa Ana winds still rage and the fire spreads but so far away from homes - good news.
I heard about this on the news last night. My heart goes out to California and the firefighters and their families. How tragic. I heard the fire was intentially set. Can you believe that??
I am Teflon. I have successfully deflected DS3 onto WW. Let her deal with the bulldog for a while.
I had promised 2much that I would publish no more lyrics or poems. Maybe more positive lyrics would be okay. 2much, if not, let me know....
Great song by the incomparable Faith Hill.
A Room in My Heart ~ Faith Hill
My heart was once just like a home With many rooms and open doors And I always let love in It would change the rooms around and then Leave them empty
'Till one by one I locked each door And soon forgot what love was for But I never gave up hopin' So I left just one door open In case you found me
So there's a room in my heart for you If your trust has been stolen too If you walk softly on this worn out wooden floor And leave behind you the hurt you've had before There's a room in my heart for you
We'll paint the walls from blue to white And set the mood by candlelight Together we'll keep out the cold And I'll still be there when we're old If you'll let me
So there's a room in my heart for you If your trust has been stolen too If you walk softly on this worn out wooden floor And leave behind you the hurt you've had before There's a room in my heart for you
I don't care for GM unless it is used as a component in a margarita. Even then, I would probably prefer Cointreau. But, I've found a better solutuion than both of the above, whether to be used as a shot or in margaritas. And, it's more economical than both. Patron makes some very good tequilias. They also make an orange liquor called Citronage. Now, this will certainly be sweeter than GM. If you don't like some measure of sweetness, than Citronage is not for you. GM, by the way, has a base of brandy. I've had it straight-up but really don't care for it that way.
Booka...I am impressed...me thinks you could consider sidelining as a 'bartender'... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
All right, I don't know what you all would be interested in as a general introduction........
....and a very nice intro. at that, thank you very much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Hi Beth,
Unfortunately, dad is not recuperating as quickly as expected... and treatment is being postponed until he does...at least another 3 wks. Thanks for asking.
Geeshh.... I am soooooo glad to see you back! I was really worried that 'whoever' may have managed to run you off....you are particularly needed to offset the addition of Booka....(sorry, Booka!) in order to keep some balance going here in the subject matter discussed...not that I have anything against learning a thing or two about tools, electricity and software...it's just a question of....BALANCE!
Quote
Do you think you could do me a favor ? Next time you two discuss the fact that you climb the walls after a month of abstinance, could you please remember me? Whisper or go outside to discuss the matter. Thanks, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how long it has been! LOL (well not really!)
You tell them, Beth!
Beth? Have you noticed by any chance the info. in my signature line? ...and FYI.... Todd has very few body parts left from 'chewing' them up.....I know he started out with the knuckles....have not dared to ask for an update! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Some of the best beer I've had has been homebrewed. I have two stages of my wine life. In the 80's, I knew nothing but in retrospect drank very good Californian Cabernet Sauvignons. I gradually lapsed. Sometime in the late 90's, I went to New Orleans and had lunch at K-Pauls. The waiter asked if I would like wine, and I asked him what would be good with the food. He brought me a glass or Merlot. I still like Merlot. That inspired me again to drink wine. I started with Autralian Shiraz of all things. Still enjoy them. I had a great blend from Australia, something with a French name. I have wines from California, Oregon, Washington (state), South America, Austrailia, and dare I say it, France. We have over 200 bottles in our meager collection.
I hope things are well for all tonight (today where it applies).
...since you seem to be around....always been curious to ask you how you came up with your poster name....does it have any particular significance for you?
I am happy that we are discussing electricity. I have always had a special relationship with electricity. I will admit, however, to an allergy to electricity. For the record, I am also allergic to natural gas. Bullets, OTOH, seem to go right through me.
There is a neat relationship between electricity and magnetism. I guess I should add here that I have always been fascinated with magnetism. The idea that a coiled armature rotating within a magnetic field can either be a motor or a generator is a perfect illustration of dual purpose. Sorta like a spider doing pushups on a mirror. A motor converts electrical energy to kinetic; a generator converts kinetic energy to electrical.
So, Luna, when your car battery and its concomitant “heads” died, it meant the battery could no longer complete the circuit. You car has a generator, and several motors BTW and the generator runs the electrical system when you operate the car and recharges the battery. If the “heads” are dirty or the cables loose, the battery is difficult or impossible to charge. That was the angle your Dad’s neighbor was getting at.
As a kid, I built many electric motors, electromagnetic cranes and DC motor racing cars. I once entered a racing contest. You had to buy a kit and build a DC motor powered car. Although the rules did not provide for such, the illustration showed a single "D" battery. I read the rules carefully and a D battery was not a requirement. I made a little jig and wired four AA batteries together, in series of course, and beat every other car by at least two meters.
Cycles were arbitrarily determined in the early days. A less known characteristic of electricity is the wave shape, or sine wave. The wave varies in shape, amplitude and pattern. Sine waves can easily be depicted on an O scope. No, not that kind of O.
As a complete aside, I just heard that a new restaurant opened in Atlanta called Jack Rabbit. I have not seen the menu.
...since you seem to be around....always been curious to ask you how you came up with your poster name....does it have any particular significance for you?
stph is a shortened form of Stephanie (without the vowel, as discussed when I joined the thread!), which is my first name (and I think most everyone has already figured that out!). 20 is the number of my favorite NASCAR driver, Tony Stewart since NASCAR is my favorite sport. Put them together and you get stph20. It's not too original, it's on my license plate of my car!
OK, I told you all mine, now you gotta tell me yours!
There is a neat relationship between electricity and magnetism.
Todd...is it related to 'animal' magnetism, or not? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Luna,
I researched the derivation and definition of "animal magnetism". Here is what the web had to say:
"Animal magnetism is both a synonym for mesmerism as well as the 18th century term for the supposed ethereal medium postulated by Franz Mesmer as a therapeutic agent. Its existence was examined by a French royal commission in 1784, and the commission concluded there was no evidence of its existence or efficacy of the animal magnetic fluid, and that its effects derived from either the imaginations of its subjects or charlatanry."
Conclusion: if the French deny its existence, it must be true. This is the opposite of Descartes who, of course, locked himself in an oven, got burned and declared “I think therefore I am”. Sorry Frenchie, if you think you are, it proves you are not and never have been.
What was the question? Oh yes…..
Perhaps a better working definition of animal magnetism is that it is an attraction between two people characterized by a strong, undeniable and inexplicable pull. So, now we are getting somewhere. The animal, or animals, so magnetized, take steps to convert magnetic energy into kinetic energy and then kinetic energy into magnetic energy. So yes, electricity, magnetism and animal magnetism are all related.
Thank you so much, the song is perfect and exactly what I was looking for. Please keep them coming as I am putting together a CD of positive music to keep me company.
Booka,
My favorite red is merlot. I love an Australian wine that is Penfolds Bin 389 it's a cabernet shiraz and wonderful. I also love a chardonnay. Guess there isn't much I don't like!!
My H has asked me to go to dinner with him tonight.I begrudgingly agreed as the boys were encouraging me and it seemed petty to decline. Typical he asked in front of them, he is a master tactician. Wish me luck as I don't have a clue why as he moves out tomorrow.
Special occasions, meaning this wine will flatten your wallet, try Shafer Cabernet Sauvignon Hillside Select. Around here, spirits are expensive because of "sin" taxes (makes my Libertarian blood boil) and close political-distributorship alliances, abbreviated "kickbacks". A good vintage will run about $175.00; I am sure it is much less in Cali.
Another good red is Groth Cab. It runs around $35.00 per bottle here.
The best white I have had is Caymus Conondrum. In fact, any wine from Caymus or Shafer will be excellent.
A more moderatedly priced excellent white is Grigich Hills Chardonnay. It can be had at Costco for around $35.00
[color:"blue"] Well, both Todd's and Pio's explanations have been very usefull and instructive. I have always known that technical knowlege distribution is highly one gerne sided. You never know what is under an electric blanket. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I think I finally learnet how electricity arrives to my home. I almost understand the difference between a motor and a generator, generators make more noise. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />[/color]
Wouldn't everything except the South Pole technically be "North" Antarctica?
A motor and a generator are almost the same thing or very closely related. The only difference is that they work exactly opposite from each other. The motor has a magnetic field induced in its winding (via electricity) and this magnetic field induces electricity (not a permanent magnet motor) in the rotor creating a magnetic field and (hopefully) turns the motor (one magnet chasing another).
The generator has the magnet field in the rotor and by spinning the rotor (via water or steam turbine or combustion engine - or wind power for that matter) inside the stator winding, an electric current is induced (generated) in the stator winding which is taken off and delivered to your home.
So, in simpler terms, with a motor, the power goes into the stator and comes out the rotor/shaft. In a generator, the power goes into the rotor/shaft and comes out the stator. It is the same electromagnetic principle in both cases - just 180 degrees opposed.
As for wines, the best bottle I can remember having was some Montana Marlborough Cabernet Sauvignon from New Zealand. I had it in NZ. Several years ago, I contacted the winery to find out if it is marketed in the US and found that it is a label only marketed to restaurants so I can't buy it here. To this day, I don't know if the wine was that good or if it was the evening that made it so good.
I would love to keep a stash of affordable wine in the house so I could have a glass in the evenings, if I wish, after my children are in bed. Because I would be the only one drinking it and it might oxidize before I could get it all consumed, I would like to find something palatable in a box or tube which, I know, is a totally unappealing idea.
20 is the number of my favorite NASCAR driver, Tony Stewart since NASCAR is my favorite sport.
Okay I'm confused. I thought you DIDN'T like Nascar and this was the friction between you and WH...
No...wait...I see it now. You like Nascar and he likes dirt track stock car. No wonder you and WH can't see eye-to-eye. Maybe you two could POJA Formula 1? Or nothing like the pure power of a good tractor pull (and it IS dirty). Is it just that he is a purest and doesn't tolerate the modified engines?
20 is the number of my favorite NASCAR driver, Tony Stewart since NASCAR is my favorite sport.
Okay I'm confused. I thought you DIDN'T like Nascar and this was the friction between you and WH...
No...wait...I see it now. You like Nascar and he likes dirt track stock car. No wonder you and WH can't see eye-to-eye. Maybe you two could POJA Formula 1? Or nothing like the pure power of a good tractor pull (and it IS dirty). Is it just that he is a purest and doesn't tolerate the modified engines?
Well, technically he likes ALL types of car racing. WH introduced me to everything and NASCAR stuck with me. Everything else sucks, IMO. He just goes to the local dirt tracks ALL THE TIME, which is where the friction comes into play. But, as he puts it, he likes "everything with 4 wheels and a number." NASCAR watching/going is no problem for us because we both enjoy it. Dirt track going is a problem for us because I don't enjoy it and he's obsessed with it.
BTW, I don't mind the dirt. I mind the stretched out cautions and quantity of said cautions only because of the stretched out time it takes from actual racing.
Explain this to me in simpleton terms. I do have a vacu-vin thing but that doesn't do anything about nitrogen.
That's why I thought the vacuum packed container might be a good choice. Even though I know I can't get really good wine in one. I just am hoping for drinkable wine.
Hey y'all! Just wanted to stop in before bed for a quick hello.
LAROUSSE!!! Yipee!! I'm happy to see you. I need to go back & see where you've talked of someone sending you a nasty email too.
Does anyone wonder if it's scardycat?
Good gawd! Enough with the talk of electricity. Does it get much more boring than that? Watch it or I'll start on glazes again. BTW Pio you didn't answer my question about manganese affecting glazes.
Pio, the blanket explaination could have been MUCH shorter. Something like we keep it cold here & need the extra warmth at night.
A month without s.x & you people complain! Get a hold of yourselves. Oh...right...you haven't had to.
Sat. we're in for a stormy day so I'll get all caught up. Maybe even get some clay from the studio & hand build while I watch movies with the boys. Time for bed. "nite all! Too tired to read for errors so sorry if it's a mess. Sweet dreams.
Cinders, my friend for life LOL Yes, you tell them about NZ wines. Hate to tell you this but Montana Sauv Blanc is very middle of the range here. It's what we used to drink gallons of at Friday night drinks at my old job.
Nams, I didn't like to say how boring all the talk of electricity was. I'm glad you said it for me. I wondered if it was safe yet to come back to TKO. I mean, how boooooorrrrriiiinggg can things get around here.
Also hate to tell you but 24 hours without SF is a long time in my house. (Sorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
I don't know what vacu-vin is but the name is telling. I am guessing the intent is to remove as much of the oxygen as possible to prevent the alcohol from oxydizing to form acetic acid (vinegar). While a good plan in theory, if you take into account the vapor pressure of alcohol, every time you open/close/apply vacuum to the bottle, you will remove progressively more of the alcohol from the wine. Not the best choice. The better option is to use nitrogen to purge the bottle of the air and replace it with nitrogen under slight pressure. This would keep the chemistry of the wine intact for much much longer. Vacuum is a much cheaper alternative because it requires nothing more than a vacuum pump, a few fittings and electricity. Nitrogen would require a source (i.e. bottle of compressed notrogen) and a few fittings and maybe even a vacuum pump for the purge.
The vacuum pump is not an absolute requirement. Technically if you simply purged the bottle with nitrogen for an infinite amount of time, the oxygen content would asymptotically approach zero. But that would get really boring (infinity, that is). I don't know if a nitrogen system exists but if my little brain can conceive it, surely someone else has made millions with the idea.
Box wine is the best because it remain hermetically sealed so will last a really long time. You can also put things on top of the box so is a space saver. There are some good box wines available. Anybody who says they are too good to drink wine from a box is simply an obnoxious snob.
And since nitrogen gas is a diatomic molecule, maybe an even better choice would be a truly inert gas such as argon or xenon. The inert gases have completely satisfied valence states so tend not to have affairs with other atoms or molecules. They are loners though. Truly sad.
I think argon is readily available commercially so I can see the economics of it. Nitrogen is still the cheapest choice. Nitrogen molecules tend to be prejudiced in that they keep among themselves but they are known to be "partiers" and are very much into "swapping" given sufficient proximity with another diatomic pair. I personally find nitrogen disgusting in its amoralistic behavior and would like to see all of it removed from the planet. Do we really need nitrogen anyway? I mean, there are other cryogenic sources. Come on!
Just wanted to let you know BigK that the wine cask was actually invented in Geelong, Victoria, Australia. Now how is that for trivia? Sorry, can't remember the wine maker that invented it though. Something like Anglob (?)
How do I know that? When we were first married life was tough. H was in law school and I was the bread winner of the family. Cask wine was a treat and I think instead of listing the ingredients which were probably suspect they noted the history instead.
Ahhh the good old days.... Now, I'm sad again. I'll tell you about dinner tomorrow after I digest the evening!
OK, I told you all mine, now you gotta tell me yours!
Hi stph20,
Can't say that mine is as calculated....I seem to recall that there was a hit song playing that included the word 'luna' when I first signed up....which means 'moon' in Italian... and I like the vision of the extended horizon of the sea.....which is 'mare' in Italian.....and I guess must have thought it would be a good combination.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...but I gotta tell you, when I signed up, I was a real mess....WS is involved in a romantic affair... they are tough! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Based on what WS told me (which as you know, is not necessarily a good source)....my theory is that WS, very young, had an idealistic vision of what 'love' would be (as many of us may have had!)....effortless... continual passion ....finding soulmate.... that, in combination with probably MLC, which made him want to relive those first adolescent feelings of love... that, in combination with meeting OW (as I guess this couldn't really be done with someone you have known for over 20 yrs!) who was willing to meet EN....that, in combination with me having a stressful period at work and may have had actually needed HIM to be there for me (and not the other way around)....that, in combination with WS's refusal to make any adjustment for his 'idealistic' and romantic version of love with the 'realities' of family life and where my pragmatic side didn't help...given all that...it's an A waiting to happen! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
....but that is a simplified version...many other issues come into play...
...anyways...after learning about A, and since family life, no matter what, has feet firmly set in 'reality'....it didn't take me long to realize that it would be hard to compete with WS's 'fantasized' version of love with OW....
...I don't know how long the 'illusion' will last....although WS did tell me that he would try his hardest to 'protect' A from reality (supposedly his reason for NOT chosing to live with OW)... regardless, I do expect the 'illusion' one day to meet up with 'reality' and the fall will be hard!
...I know that my PLAN B and my refusal to engage in 'friendly co-parenting' has already put a real 'dent' in it...
...personally I have chosen NOT to make any major decisions until after the 2 yr mark (ie divorce, moving, another R)...and that would be next summer...at which time I will review what direction I want to take.... in the meantime.... except for the lack of SF (...LOL)... which I agree takes some adjusting to after 20 yrs of being married, and the general feelings of 'lonileness' at times, I am trying to enjoy life on my 'own' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />... it really is not so bad...definitely better than putting up with a WS's behaviour.....ANYTIME! Yeak yeak yeak!
uhmm...sorry people.....I guess I got carried away....
Which reminds me...have any of you seen 'Les triplettes de Belleville'... it's an animated film that won an Oscar a few years ago for its musical score, I believe.... very funny if you can catch it! ...don't need to tell you if you do so...to not be surprised and EXPECT French references! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I researched the derivation and definition of "animal magnetism".
Todd...thank you for 'enlightening' me on the topic!
Quote
LAROUSSE!!! Yipee!! I'm happy to see you. I need to go back & see where you've talked of someone sending you a nasty email too.
Nams....to save you some time...don't look for it around here...Larousse started another thread about it!
Quote
A month without s.x & you people complain! Get a hold of yourselves. Oh...right...you haven't had to.
Just wanted to let you know BigK that the wine cask was actually invented in Geelong, Victoria, Australia. Now how is that for trivia? Sorry, can't remember the wine maker that invented it though. Something like Anglob (?)
Thank you Beth for proving my point. Boxed (or cask) Wine comes from the pit of he11.
And with a name like Anglob which I have never heard of why am I not surprised....
OMG that guy - I have never put anyone on ignore except for him. I did it for his benefit - he's a hurting BS so I really have to make allowances. But man he is dumb.
I have been thinking about radical honesty. Apparently there is a poster or posters secretly trying to influence other posters (e.g. 2regret and larousse). Those trying to protect this wicked person are not being radically honest and are protecting someone unworthy of protection. It is your decision whether to out these people or not but you are not doing anyone any favors. It is just like an affair. Exposure is the only good solution to stop the vile behavior. JMO.
booka,
I have some questions for you. What did you do for your company when you first went to work for them? It is not common to work for the same company for 28+ years. Back when you started working, that was the corporate mentality - job for life. But Reaganomics changed all that. Good for you. I worked for a company once that had that mindset. They were bought by Schlumberger who cleaned house of all the old-timers. Wouldn't let em reach retirement age. I became mercenary when I saw that.
I am curious now what your software does. I don't know that much about the grid and especially how it affects rural coops but the concept of software for it is new to me and very interesting. I would like to know more.
Are you like me and believe that digital computers are a crime against nature? Nothing beats analog.
I have been thinking about radical honesty. Apparently there is a poster or posters secretly trying to influence other posters (e.g. 2regret and larousse). Those trying to protect this wicked person are not being radically honest and are protecting someone unworthy of protection. It is your decision whether to out these people or not but you are not doing anyone any favors. It is just like an affair. Exposure is the only good solution to stop the vile behavior. JMO.
I agree, Pio... some of my energy is going into 'overanalyzing' posters.... trying to see who the 'secret' poster might be.... not good...creates mistrust and uneasiness.... and not sure why Beth and Larousse are 'protecting' poster either
I, for one, would definitely like to know who it is rather than 'play' the guessing game!
Maybe both Beth and Larousse could at least be open to explain to us their reasons for not willing to 'out' poster... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Luna, maybe not two posters but two situations from the same poster?
Well the first step in RH to end the secrets would be that Todd and Pio would admit their disgusting EA.
I appreciate your straight intervention Pio and the interest of the 'family'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
In my case I'm in the middle of one sided fire from a WW who wants to colect a 'debt' or revenge from a FWW on MB and at the same time seems to have unlimited love for BS's here.
I was at the wrong post at the wrong time, I belong to the wrong ethnic group and some how got in the middle.
Now the story and the several stories along the years don't belong to me. I don't feel free to share them because they involve other people. If they want to speak, they would do it.
What I tried to do with my thread was to say that I refuse to be dragged into the dissemination of rumors and fictions but it seems it didn't work.
Well the first step in RH to end the secrets would be that Todd and Pio would admit their disgusting EA.
What truck did you just fall off of? ToddAC and I have admitted our EA dozens of times. A simple search would show that. I have confessed a dozen times that he is my soulmate! We have been nothing but honest.
I don't have enough curiosity to care whether you out the poster or not. I simply think the poster doesn't deserve protection. If you don't wish to tell, that's your business and I'll respect that. I have enough lies to sort through on the home front without getting into more intrigue here.
I can remember having was some Montana Marlborough Cabernet Sauvignon from New Zealand.
Talk about creative marketing.
This reminds me of the movie Forrest Gump.
"Now, I don't know much about anything, but I think some of American's best young men served in this war. There was Dallas, from Phoenix. Cleveland, he was from Detroit. And Tex was, well, I don't remember where Tex come from."
[color:"blue"] I have always asked the same question. My mom can't remember at what time I was born, if it was an easy or difficult birth and how long it lasted. I have wondered if she just mail ordered me or what. I guess 'what'.
Nam, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have been quiet about now real XBF because I was not ready to hear 'I told you so' not from you but more from my inner conscious. The last time he called I asked him not to call me again. I feel like going out of my own fog. I held a torch for us for too long...
He casually found, so he said, one month ago, a very conflictive XGF from 5-6 years ago. When his relationship with her ended he had to go into rehab and when we met he had been clean for two years. I have had my sad moments and at the same time I feel liberated. I always had to avoid to say comments that could trigger him about his past realtionship or he would doubt of our suitability. I mean his past relationship with that XGF was the mesure against which our success was messured.
If I ever did something that could remaind him of her, he would say something like 'Oh I don't want this again' or something like that. He took away my right to make mistakes like if they were new and original. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Maybe if things had finished differently I would feel worst... or not. The fact that there's this XGF and his addiction make easier to accept that our relationship is over.
Ok, save the 2x4 until tonight or tomorrow <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I'm not sure I can get on line this afternoon. I have to leave the appto soon because the building will be fumigated and I prefer not to sleep here tonight.
[/color]
I was thinking of buying an automatic dispenser of gum with rings. Every day I could try my chances. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
[color:"green"]
I appreciate a lot the warm caring y'all have shown me, except Pio of course and I'm sorry if my thread brought incertitude and mistrust. It was not my intention.
(((((((( TKO ))))))))[/color]
::::::
If you buy wine in a bottle or other conteiner, a very safe mesure, if it's not going to be consumed all the same day, is to refrigerate it. I know it's unortodox but very effective or so I'm told. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
No 2x4s from me. Sounds to me like your living your life as any reasonable thinking person would. You were willing to get involved with this man despite his need for rehab in his past & that says you have a forgiving nature. That's a good thing.
He's the idiot who could not let go of a former GF & work on a relationship with you. This is not your failing but his. You know, hindsight is a toture devise. It's full of second guessing but the truth is we don't have all the facts until things end. Then we can see more clearly. While in the midst of our relationships we do the best we can & that's what it appears you did.
I have been quiet about now real XBF because I was not ready to hear 'I told you so' not from you but more from my inner conscious. The last time he called I asked him not to call me again. I feel like going out of my own fog. I held a torch for us for too long...
Hi Larousse...thanks for sharing...one makes choices.... takes risks.... makes mistakes... learns from them.... and moves on... that's life....
The name Montana was first used by Yugoslavian immigrant Ivan Yukich for the wine he made in the Waitakere Ranges west of Auckland, where he settled on a small block of land in Scenic Drive in 1934.
Because of the elevation of the site, the vineyard was given the name "Montana", which means mountain.
It's kind of weird, Belleville is a French word, but it's a German town. A lot of German names and heritage is here.
I think the Germans tend to do that with any french territory. So far they have done it twice to the entire country. Maybe Bush can send in the 101st Airborne? Nah. Probably no oil.
Marlborough's popularity as a place to live and to visit has grown with the new quest for quality and authenticity. This thriving yet relaxed province refreshes resident and visitor alike with the awareness that they are enjoying an experience that is as close as you can get to life and living as it should be.
Marlborough countryside is blessed with striking beauty, its landforms and waterways seemingly purpose-made to display an endless variety of lighting effects. This, combined with a climate that is unsurpassed, provides the perfect backdrop in which to enjoy the many forms of recreation available, from relaxing in the pleasant surroundings of a winery to cruising the sparkling waters of the Marlborough Sounds.
Marlborough is the largest and best known wine growing region in New Zealand in part due to the world famous Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc. A tour of some of the regions vineyards is a must for all visitors. The annual Marlborough Wine Festival is one of Marlborough's largest events.
I'm getting quite a kick out of the fact that you think you're being so smart and not one of these places/names have anything to do with America whatsoever.
And if you think a month with no sf is bad, well, guess again. I went 5 years.
<Gasp> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />...how did you live to tell about it???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Well the question that comes to my mind is how you could possibly know that? There is, of course, only one answer. Naturally this brings up another question which I cannot answer.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I just figured it out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
In addition to my other question, I am curious as to how you have seen the evolution of the computer during your career. What systems did you originally develop for? The VAX on CISC architecture? Why back in the late 70's, the personal computer wasn't much more than a glorified word processor. I still remember the TRS-80 and I self-taught 8088 assembler language with the IBM came out. Then they later went to RISC architecture on the 8086 and destroyed all my code. I grew up on Fortran V. Tried to learn C but just never had the aptitude or motivation. The concept of pointers is still foreign to me. How have you seen your development work evolve? Are you now working on real-time web based systems? That is where we are. Real-time data capture tied into an AI network. We are still working on the AI and it is the best part.
During your career, you must have seen a lot. I bet you could write a book.
Because of the nature of our business, this is highly confidential information but here is an organizational chart of my company.
Hi Pio....well, you could always look at the bright side...there is only one way for you to go....UP!
Quote
And if you think a month with no sf is bad, well, guess again. I went 5 years.
OUCH! ((((((((((((((((((Cinderella))))))))))))))
I see that you have been around since 2000...don't suppose you feel up to given me (us) a quick summary of where you are at! (or link to your thread, if you have one).... You note 'D/D Board'...let me take a wild guess.... Dating/Divorce?
Quote
Quote
<Gasp> ...how did you live to tell about it????
The simple solution is hard wood floors. That's my guess anyway.
Pio...don't think I get it...care to elaborate, or NOT!
hardwood floors are extremely high maintenance. Constant sanding, varnishing, etc. It is practically a full time (and exhausting) job. It would certainly take your mind off SF.
I remember my first employer ran a DEC mini-VAX. We had bought a couple of TRS-80's for experimentation and them the IBM PC came out. We soon had an IBM PC on every desk in the place. Then the IT manager said we had to replace the DEC with an IBM AS/400 because the PC was too small to handle business applications. Was he ever a visionary. When I left the company I walked by his office and he had tape reels and disk packs stacked to the roof on his desk. He was soon replaced after the company realized there was no benefit to expensive maintenance costs of an IBM AS/400. They eventually sold it for scrap metal. It still makes me laugh.
Seeing that the 31st is coming up....how exactly is the Halloween tradition handled in SA?
....I heard you say that pumpkins cost a lot.....so, figured not too many are going to be around...
Do the kids go around the 'neighbourhood'? ..or is it limited to the school environment?
I see that Booka is 'right up your alley' with his 28-yr history in software... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I once took a computer course back in '77... all I can remember is that if we 'missed a comma'....forget it! ....and we had to wait in line just to get our 'program' on a bunch of 'cards' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ..... I like logic....but there is a limit! ...I do believe I did the software world a favour by giving it up...LOL!
...I enjoyed calculus a lot better.... but after 30 yrs of not touching the subject... right now all I can recall is sin, cos...a WHOLE lot of formulas...some beautiful graph work.... but I do believe what remains is the process....it is where I gained a sense of perseverance in trying to solve those calculus problems that often never fit on one page..and am now applying it to LIFE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
...at what age do we start losing billions of brain cells forever? ...I do believe some 'selective' work may be involved! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
We just 'lost' an hour...go figure!
Am I talking to myself again?...uhmmm.... good thing I don't take it personal!
OK, x left because he 'wasn't happy' which boiled down to he has issues with which, I believe, he has never come to grips. I am an ADD adult and the ADD behaviors were what I contributed. His chief complaints with me were that I didn't keep the house neat enough and I had punctuality issues including not calling him if I was running late getting home.
Now, he would never admit his mulitple emotional affairs including one with my sister. However, after the secretary in his office told me the grapevine at work had him linked to a woman at the office, he did tell me that he felt sorry for her because she was divorced, had 2 small children, had no one to help her, and life was hard for her. I asked him if it bothered him that he was forcing that kind of life on his children and he said it did. However, he felt he had not been happy in a long time and he felt he had to take this chance to be happy. She never did go out with him, by the way.
He didn't tell me, initially, that he was filing for a divorce. I overheard him tell his sister on the phone. I kicked him out of the bedroom that night. He had to sleep in the den with the dog. 6 weeks later, the dog died.
Anyway, I fought his attempts to divorce for a year. But, 2 years later, after having an EKG because I thought my heart was going crazy, I decided to file and regain some peace and sanity in my life. We have been divorced since late 1988.
I found this site after I started dating Bachelor #1 who said he had been abused by his xw. Was doing research on domestic violence by women. For some reason, I won't go away.
In the last 1.5 yrs., x and I have been getting along better. Thanks to family therapy which was necessary after d was hospitalized for severe depression. His wife has always treated me with respect so I have no issues with her since she was not in the picture at the time of the divorce or separation.
D and S both are, apparently ADD or ADHD. So, we are sort of the random family. Random but we understand each other. Sometimes it is overwhelming being a single parent. But I have done it since the children were 4 and 2.
I have been in a long distance relationship since January 2001. Don't know where it will lead. He won't relocate till his youngest child goes to college. I won't relocate till my youngest child goes to college. Don't know that I can afford to do so then.
So, I hang around for fun. And, every now and then, I think I have something to contribute. The rest of the time, I am here for fun or because I am too set in my ways to leave.
you're welcome. wanna help me get everything ready for trunk or treat. gotta leave w/in 1.5 hrs. have tons of 'parts' but no organization or vision. little things out of control.
The boys & I have pretty much stayed home this weekend, outside of some errands & some studio time, & been cozy with the wood stove going & watching stuff we've recorded from T.V. Quite, uneventful weekend which is nice.
I'm wondering if I should buy a new wood stove, maybe someone here has some advice. The one I have is tiny & is probably 30 years old. I have it in my fire place. Does pretty well once you get it started but I'm wondering if a newer model would be more efficient & put out more heat to the rest of the house & worth spending the money on. I have oil heat & would love to avoid huge oil bills this winter. I bought one cord of wood & don't intend to get more.
Oh, the REALLY good news? The results of all the STD tests came back negative. Yipee! While this would have proven ex's infidelity I never wanted to have it confirmed in that way.
A Guitar Center opened near by & I brought oldest son there for the grand opening on Thurs. I bought him a $160 amp for $50 & twelve packs of strings for the price of two. Boy do I love a bargin. The problem? Oldest son has spent MANY hours playing around with it. If I hear Crazy Train or Iron Man again I think I'll throw it off the roof. Even the stuff I do like is so loud at times I want to scream. I just keep repeating, must be supportive of the music, must be supportive of the music...
Oh wait, here's something funny. Some of you may remember I was to go on a date with a man who was half an hour late then called to ask where I was when he didn't find me at the restaurant. He got irritated when I refused to go meet him & when I said maybe another time he said "No I don't think so." & hung up. Well, at 9:45 last night he calls to ask if I want to meet him for a drink as he just got done with an event in my town. Yeah, don't think so. Sheeesh.
Sounds like you have had a delightful weekend. I love nothing better than cuddling up by a fire. The most amazing wood stoves I have ever seen are in Germany. What floored me was they would put on only one log and it would burn all day and heat the entire home. Regarding your pottery do you have a site that I can look at to view your potttery? I would love to see your work. I guess the bright side of your gentleman caller is that at least he thought of you. What a flip thinking you would run out and meet him - takes all kinds hey!
Todd,
Thank you for your list of wines. I will be sure to try them. I especially want to try the Caymus Conondrum just because I love the name! By the way - where are you?
Luna,
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your sig. line. I did the math and okay, I will stop complaining, but I think Cinderella is the grand prize winner! I'm also glad you posted your story it does help somehow to know you are not alone in the infidelity world.
Jen,
Is your daughter still in America? Thanks for the link to the N.Z. wine, I thoroughly enjoyed your wines while there.
Cinderella,
I was so saddened to read your story and I wish you happiness in the future.
Pio,
With your comment regarding people being snobs that will not drink cask/box wine. I can remember having a wine snob at my home and decanting the cask wine so he wouldn't know it's source, he acutally thought it was a good year! Guess most people are like me, after the first glass who cares !
Regarding the email I received. I think I posted at the time that the sender wished to remain anonymous and I gave my word. One thing I will say though is that as far as I can see there was no wickedness behind the email. The sender really did have the best of TKO at heart. My reaction was extreme and due to my emotional state. I am a guest here on your thread and if you wish to know any further details please feel free to contact me.
BigK and Steph.
Thanks for your best wishes for my dinner with H. You were right BigK and it was an effort at instigating R. He even took me to my favorite restaurant, a very romantic setting in Old Town. Todd would have loved the mariachi music. My H is gorgeous hunk of a man that can certainly turn on the charm and of course knows what buttons of mine to press. He reminds me of Disneyland, it's fun to go there but after two days you have had enough and are ready to return to reality.
I still insisted he move out yesterday. My boys seem to understand and accept the situation fairly well but of course hope we R. It was a rough day.
Well I don't want to be the one to start any rumors but I understand that ToddAC has gone down to the Bahamas for a few days to stake out surveillance locations for video and photo shots of WW's upcoming vacation. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
No 2regret,
I simply don't care that much. It is your decision. Just don't let someone run you off for no good reason. I am a little curious about the mechanics of it though. Say I send someone an email and say "hey I know I'm being a jerk and all but I expect you to give me your word that you won't tell anyone else what a jerk I really am". Just seems unfair and if I could spell presumptuous, it would be that too! I will say though that anyone who thinks cinderella is a winner is seriously misguided. Poor girl. After that much time I think I might need to "be alone".
ToddAC lays (lies?) on the sofa and free associates.
The last few days have been eventful. I had a headache for a few days which would not go away. Then the nosebleed started. It would stop for short periods of time and then start back. I awoke a couple of days ago with an intense pain in my left calf. I begrudgingly called one of my docs. Predictably, he wants me to go to the ER to be “checked”. This particular doc is mindful to be careful while I am careful to be mindful. We are not exactly like oil and water but close. Perhaps I am hydrochloric acid. I quiz him: do I truly need to go or are you protecting your malpractice premiums? You need to go. That is doc talk for I am worried about increased malpractice premiums. So I didn’t go. I sought and got his concurrence, although he was not happy, to give it overnight and see how things go. The calf pain vanished and the nosebleed stopped. Of course, I had fainted by then, but the nosebleed stopped. Headache persisted. Finally today, DS3 takes me to the ER to have my headaches inspected. Everything is fine just as I suspected. Dam* docs!
Since so many members are bored with discussions of magnetism and electricity, I will move on. I will just say that magnetism was my first love. It is fascinating. Okay, yeah, I will stop. I would like to digress into the realms and remnants of economics however. And, as fate might have it, this discussion has a point. The first point is the concept of Marginal Utility, a/k/a The Law of Diminishing Returns. Here is an example. A ten year old boy walks into an ice cream shop with $1.25 in his pocket. He wants a double scoop of chocolate ice cream. It is twenty five cents per scoop. He gives two quarters to the man for a twin scooped cone. He thoroughly enjoys the ice cream and the cone. He thinks for a minute and decides to buy another double scoop of chocolate. He enjoys it, but not as much. The man asks him if he would like another double scoop of chocolate. The little boy thinks and replies: I would but I only have twenty five cents left. The man says: tell you what I will do. Since you love ice cream so much, I will sell you a double scoop cone for twenty five cents. The little boy agrees and sits down to enjoy the cone. Only this time, he doesn’t enjoy the ice cream as much as the second double scoops and certainly not as much as the first two scoops. He has to labor to finish the ice cream and cone. He sits for a moment, gets up and tells the man bye. The man says: don’t you want some more ice cream? The little boy allows that he is now broke. The man says, tell you what, I will give you a double cone of chocolate free. The little boy sits and just stares at the ice cream. For some reason, his excitement has waned. It is pure ****** just to lick the ice cream. His stomach is full, his eyes are full, and for some inexplicable reason, he just doesn’t enjoy this cone as much. He manages to finish and the man asks if he wants another free cone. The little boy shakes his head and walks out the door. This is the Law of Marginal Utility.
Every product and service has a demand curve and a supply curve. There are individual demand and supply curves and aggregate curves. I will discuss aggregate curves. The amount of variance in demand plotted against price, which is determined by the demand supply relationship, is called elasticity. Most goods and services have elastic demand curves, that is, when the price goes up, demand goes down. As prices decrease, demand increases. If the demand for a product or service does not vary with price changes, the demand curve for that product is said to be inelastic. Makes sense. The best example of a product with an inelastic demand curve is gasoline. Despite all the furor over MPG, hybrid cars, bicycling to work, etc., historically, price changes in gasoline have not affected demand in any material way.
How does this apply you? The next time you hear a politician say that he wants to raise gasoline taxes in order to reduce consumption, and save the environment BTW, know that he is full of baloney. What he really wants is more money to run new programs because government, as we know it, has an insatiable desire to spend money. Many of you will recall the braggadocio of the Clinton administration, that Clinton “balanced the budget”. Sorry, he did not in any way balance the budget. He was a magician but only because of a slight of hand. What Billy Bob did was to combine the federal budget with the Social Security Trust Fund, which fund currently has a surplus. I say currently because as the Baby Boomer generation retires, supported by few workers hence contributes, the surplus will quickly evaporate. The problem with combining the budget and the trust fund is that nobody can now distinguish the difference between the two. Folks, if you are planning on a retirement paid for by social security funds and you are younger than 55 or so, forget about it. It will not happen.
DS3 spent the night last night and we had a ball. We had dinner and dinner again today. If you will indulge me, I am totally proud of and impressed by my sons. All three are confident, secure, have a great sense of humor and have manners. DS3 is so confident that he nudges against the fence which separates confidence from arrogance. Almost, but not quite. He and I discussed the SS issue at great lengths today. He asked, but what can we do? Here’s the answer. I have a sense that Americans are increasingly fed up with both major political parties. The Democratic party of today is vastly different from the same party during JFK’s era. JFK was liberal on Civil Rights, moderate on social programs, economically conservative and conservative on defense. The current Democratic party sits to the far left of JFK’s party. The Republican party has followed it to the left, stopping just about in the center. But remember, center has moved drastically to the left. Spending under the conservative Bush has increased dramatically. He has not used his veto power. All of this BTW, with a Republican congress.
My mission is not to transform you from your current political leanings or to mold you into a Libertarian. My goal is simply this: demand honesty and accountability from your elected officials. How do you accomplish this? Ignore sound bites. Research information yourself. There are many sources, from as mundane as the congressional voting record to asking your rep the hard questions. America has been a great country for many years. Despite all the talk about the incredible growth of China, the US economy’s growth last year was bigger than the entire size of the Chinese economy. We are the world’s economic and military engine. The world watches the Dow, not the Euro stock exchanges. The world watches the Fed chairman not the central banker in Japan. We stand to loose our greatness. As we worry about who crosses into our borders, jobs are being sent in droves offshore. Even as our economy purrs quite nicely, debt is mounting, the social security trust is eroding and balance of payments is shrinking to our detriment. It is our country and we the people have the power if we learn how to wield it. Write your congressman or congresswoman and let them know how you feel. Demand an end to clever sound bites and attacks. Demand that government work together to solve our problems. Our sons and daughters depend on it.
Well, er, I was going to explain about Halloween in SA but now I feel somewhat "marginalized" or "diminishingly returned". Oh well...
Halloween is not directly a religious holiday so, within the confines of our "camp", we are allowed to quietly celebrate it. We might get some vandalism of the decorations. So far our 10 tombstones out front and two scarecrow/ghosts have held up well. As much as the Arab children might publicly protest Halloween, the seem to like the free candy well enough.
We went to a Halloween party of a friend of the DDs. There was a contest for best costume. We were not allowed to vote for our own children but, aside from that, I think DD2 won unanimously for her "sweet little devil" costume. Expat houses will have candy for the kids and parents will walk around with groups of children for trick or treat tomorrow night. It is my turn to sit out front and hand out candy. WW made two wonderful candy "bags". I'll have to post a photo. She made Frankenstein heads out of Nido milk cans.
The inside of the house is really decorated to the max for Halloween. It is so well decorated that a) DD2 cannot sleep out of shear terror and b) the house maid is convinced we are satanists. She and two friends held an exorcism while we were at the grocery store.
Christmas is a much more dangerous holiday and we have to keep that really low key. Usually any outside decorations will be destroyed. Last year I put a motion-activated camera on the front yard to capture who was doing the vandalism. When I showed the recording to security, I was almost arrested for photographing a Saudi without his permission. Somehow they totally missed the point of the exercise. Just another day in Saudi.
Geeshh...Todd...you seem to be a fountain of...knowledge! Glad to hear you had a 'ball' with DS3..... I must admit...I also enjoy my boys' company...they are just too cute!
Quote
DS3 is so confident that he nudges against the fence which separates confidence from arrogance.
..I wonder who he takes after?
Quote
....Just another day in Saudi.
Pio....you are so funny...you know that....LOL!
Just wondered....isn't your Niccolo Macchiavelli costume a bit too subtle for the kids..... unless in SA philosophy is being studied in kindergarden!
Is one allowed to ask how are things with G....or is it off-limits?
Hey, my daughter won third place in the adult costume category at 'trunk or treat' at church tonight. She was Snoopy. And she took our dog, in her little yellow costume, to be Woodstock.
We won 'best trunk' with our full spread of goodies. An inflatable pumpkin that was about 4' in diameter. An inflatable ghost about 4' tall. A skeleton made of PVC tubing, some lights and halloween garland to decorate the inside of the trunk, a line of pumpkins - some lit w/ battery powered fake-tealights, a CD playing children's Halloween songs. The piece de resistance was the fog machine tucked under the car so there was fog swirling at my feetl I was the happy witch in my shiny sparkly witch dress, fishnets, birkenstocks, and snazzy fashion-statement black and lime green hat with sequins and netting.
Is one allowed to ask how are things with G....or is it off-limits?
Well we recently finished a six day Eid holiday and stayed around the house – mainly because we had no exit visas for our passports. Couldn't even go to Bahrain but, then again, I understand the queues at the border were five and six hours long most days. So we stayed around the house and did all sorts of chores, repairs, Halloween decorations, etc. In hindsight, maybe six days "alone" with gemela was too much too soon. On the last day we had run out of necessary things to do so we started scrapbooking. She did the creative part and I did the math and trig. At one point I noticed that my glass was sweating on the table so I removed it and wiped up the water with a towel. When I did that she said "and get your glass off my table!" (which I had already done). I got quiet for a couple of minutes and then told her I was tired of her and wanted a divorce. She said I was going overboard for wanting a divorce because of a comment about a glass. I said I couldn't care less about the comment. I wanted a divorce because she had cheated on me, lied to me and continued to cheat for the better part of a year. She did not make me happy. I was much happier when she was in Mexico than now and I wished she would simply be gone forever. She did not make me happy in the least. I wanted to be happy again. I missed love and she had stolen any chance of love from me forever. I couldn't stand being around her.
She said she would not give me a divorce. She was committed to giving everything she had to make the marriage work. She said we needed time but that she had faith we could work it out. I replied that neither one of us is happy and we don't love each other and I asked what I had done that was so bad that she got such pleasure out of continuing to make my life he11. Why did she get such pleasure out of making me suffer? I'm not sure but it is possible that I may have LB'ed. I did ask her about the phone calls to BF right before the PA started. I asked what advice BF had given her. She asked why I wanted to know. Way wrong answer. I reminded her she had promised to be radically honest and answer any question even if she saw no benefit in telling me. So she screwed up. I felt it was a harmless question in that it avoided the A entirely. She said BF told her not to do it (I suspect she is telling the truth in that).
Anyway we didn't speak much the rest of the day except for essential scrapbook talk. The next morning I had to go to work but I woke her up before I left and repeated that I wanted a divorce. I don't think I added much new to the discussion so won't go into details but we argued for about an hour. I did bring up again her stash of love letters and photos when she told me she wanted to put the A behind her and that she was sorry for what she had done. I said people only keep a scrapbook of things they want to remember – not things they are sorry about and want to forget. I begged for a divorce. She said she wanted to see it through and salvage the M. She said she never valued our M like she should have and she has learned that.
I don't remember much of the rest of the day. Oh yes I do. She called in the AM and told me she needed 200SR to pay to a friend to get her caught up in the birthday club since she had been away for a few months. At lunch I asked her how I could know that money didn't go for phone cards. That was her MO – find a way to need unaccountable money and use it to buy phone cards. She said that had not occurred to her. She said she would get the money back and quit the club. I said that was typical P/A behavior on her part – find a way to make me the bad guy. I told her to stay in the club and give me a D because our marriage was not worth 200SR. Not much more discussion. She says she just wants me to be able to trust her again and will do anything or give up anything to help me do that. She has some nerve!
I did go home early with the idea that we could finish our "discussion" before the kids got home from school and settle on the divorce. Well we never spoke. We both went upstairs but we ended up taking naps. She went to pick up the DDs from school and then helped them with their homework. After we got the kids to bed, we did talk again. I told her that I hurt and she had no idea how badly she had wounded me. My only crime was loving her and she had ripped my heart out of my chest, proved to me she was a cheat and liar and I would never trust her again. For her part she said she was extremely sorry for what she had done. She doesn't know why she did it. Doesn't want to be that kind of a person, etc. She said she has tried to tell me that she is sorry but I always say I don't believe her. I said she should tell me that every single day until I do believe it. I told her she had destroyed my self-esteem and all I wanted to do was die. I no longer had any reason for living except for the DDs and my death would benefit them more.
I am pushing her away with everything I have and she is hanging on, holding me, kissing me, trying to reassure me, promising me eternal faithfulness. She says she knows I have bad days and would give anything to know what to do to help me. She says she feels unworthy to be with me. What gall!
Anyway things have calmed way down. I think what we are doing wrong is that we are not really communicating. She did make an IC appointment which I had asked her to do. Maybe the IC will recommend MC. I don't know. I will say that for all my anger, I focused almost exclusively on how I felt and I don't think I DJ'ed much, if any. I'm not even sure I LB'ed that much. Basically I focused on how this had affected me. I think I had a lot bottled up inside and I just blew (and blew…and blew).
My honest opinion is that she is finally getting the big picture. My honest opinion is that she is sincere. I seem to be the obstacle right now. I think she needs to remain consistent and maybe even need to put up with my negative attitude a bit longer. I think she owes me that. I guess I feel like she needs to put in some effort to prove she still belongs here. For my part, I need to give her that opportunity. I do want to and will work hard to try to. We just need to talk more.
Wow Pio. Is this all just a test so you can gauge if Gemela is really serious about recovery? Have you ever given her Josephs letter? Pepperband bumped it on the "Just Found Out" forum so it's near the top.
No it is no test. The only thing I can figure is that it must be something like PTSD. I don't really have any intention of saying those things - they just come out before I know I have said it. It is very nearly an out-of-body experience.
I know it is not a test because I would be perfectly happy if she agreed and said we should get a divorce. Right now I think she is the only one of us who is really interested in keeping the M together. I stay because of inertia and for the DDs.
This is the first time she has ever openly discussed her A has anything but an "error". I told her that her frankness had really helped me. Something needs to change. We can't stay like this.
On a lighter note, if Todd "reposes" he would have to be wearing a toga, or loafers. (as in "light in the"). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We won 'best trunk' with our full spread of goodies....
Cinderella...I am impressed...I see that you are putting your energies into being very very very 'creative'...I, for one, am all for that! (LOL)
Hi Pio,
Thanks for sharing about you and G...
I see that you are in a lot of pain, Pio...I am so sorry!
I hear you repeating to G. that you want a D. Do you really want a D? ...and if it's what you really want, why are you not initiating the procedures? ...and if not, looks to me that you're putting a lot of 'negative' energy in the air if it's not what you really want!
...sounds like you have built up, and are continuing to build, a lot of resentment....were you not also considering IC?
Quote
We just need to talk more.
...why not check around to see if there is a good M counsellor to consider to help the two of you out with it?
...the dance you are choosing to dance looks to me to be very damaging all around.
Gemela had her first IC today. I don't know if any recommendations came from that. We can talk tonight and see what the IC suggests. For me, getting a D is more complicated than running down to the court house and filing.
Like I told gemela, all I want is to stop hurting - whatever the path. She seems to think we can accomplish that together. I am ambivalent. I wish I could be more positive but I don't trust gemela or her motives. She says she wants the M but keep in mind this is coming from a woman who swore she wasn't having an A when she was. She has no credibility so I am sorry but I just don't trust her. I wish I could find a way that I could trust her. How do I do that?
...just want you to know...without being specific...that my WS also works in the 'artistic and creative' world.... and that many could easily be justified in telling me, as well, the 'I told you so!'....
All choices involve a risk.....what's important to know...is when to let go!
No recommendations about a wood stove? I thought that would be something the guys might like to discuss. Beats the he!! out of electrical current talk. ZZZZ
Hi Todd, How are you? I'm glad to see you're back. I too noticed your absence & thought perhaps your WW was acting up again & you were involved with that. Gald to see that's not the case now that you know your health is OK.
How nice you & your son spend a lot of time together. One of the things that makes me saddest about my D is the fact ex is a part time dad & that it's OK with him. I hope that doesn't strain his relationship with the boys.
I almost didn't read your description of marginal utility based solely on the fact you were talking about marginal utility. Then I glanced through to see a little boy with an ice cream & I had to read it. I do have a special place in my heart for boys.
Thank you for pointing out the Libertarian view is really the only one that makes sense. Suppossed to have the little yellow guy with his tongue stuck out pictured here. humph (((Todd)))
Kiwi, I don't think Todd is light in the...
I don't know Pio...your anger is certainly justified...I just don't know that it's constructive.
No one knows if you'll be able to trust G again. I guess that's something all the other BS who have recovered their marriages will have to weigh in on. Perhaps the complete, blind trust you once had is gone for good.
I ask myself the question if ex & I stayed together would I have been able to trust him completely. I don't know the answer to that. I only know I'd want to with all my heart.
Good for you in showing your H you're serious about wanting him out. That took a lot of strength.
Thanks for asking about my work. I have gathered some photos of my work on the following link. To view all the photos it seems to work better if you click on thw words under the picture rather than the picture. Please excuse the big blue bowl, I've come to hate that one.
I do have a web site but it's not up to date. Because it doesn't generate income I ignore it. Bad attitude I know but I only have so much time & messing with my web site is waaay down on the list.
No it is no test. The only thing I can figure is that it must be something like PTSD.
uhmm....I am going to sound like a broken record, Pio, but why not consider getting some help?
Quote
I know it is not a test because I would be perfectly happy if she agreed and said we should get a divorce.
Would you by any chance be trying to make life miserable enough so that she will?
Quote
We can't stay like this.
Agree, 100%.
Quote
For me, getting a D is more complicated than running down to the court house and filing.
...even so...the way things are going...you may have to consider it.
Quote
Like I told gemela, all I want is to stop hurting - whatever the path. She seems to think we can accomplish that together.
She doesn't have a chance without you helping her out!
Quote
She has no credibility so I am sorry but I just don't trust her. I wish I could find a way that I could trust her. How do I do that?
I am no expert..don't think trust comes back so easily...you have to take one day at a time and have a plan...you're thinking too far ahead, I think...
I wonder if you are hurting too much to be able to think straight right now....
...please pretty please with a whole of sugar on it...consider zzz...arghhhh.....g e t t i n g ...(scratch) %&@! SoMe....H E..L....P (just in case my special effects was lost on you guys...it's supposed to be a 'broken' record!)
All right, the weekend went pretty good. I decided late last week that I am going to put my top EN's on a shelf in storage and I'm not going to think about them in the context of my wife meeting them. This helped me to cancel some negative thoughts and disperse some resentments. I feel lighter. My desire for having my ENs met (SF/affection, admiration) has not waned. It is unreasonable to have an expectation that the wife will meet them now.
Cinderella,
There are some pretty good boxed wines now. The Black Box brand is supposed to be pretty good and they stock several varietals.
2regret,
There is a lot of variance in Merlot. Some of the most expensive and highly reviewed Merlots are what I would term as pretty austere in taste. I like something a bit more robust. The best Merlot I've tasted to date and still have a bottle or two of is Conn Creek. When I restarted my interest in wine, I liked Concha Y Tor Explorador, which can be found most anywhere for about $7.00 per bottle retail. I still purchase this and enjoy it. I also like the Bogle Merlot, which can be had for just under $10.00 per bottle.
Pio,
I'll give you a condensed history and will then accept your questions for clarification or amplification.
When I started here in 1978, I mainly did deliveries of packages and 9-track tapes. I worked some odd hours, something like 18:00-02:00. I did this a short period of time and then worked in the mailroom. This involved bursting and shipping of 2-up postcard electric bills produced by large line printers. At that point in time, we have Sperry-Univac mainframes, the 90/60 series when I started there. These computers were interesting in the fact that the used IBM S/70 assembler code, so one could take an assembler class (there was only one assembler class offered at that time and only for IBM assembler) and use it on a Sperry-Univac. At that point, we used a lot of punched-cards and 9-track tapes, and some of the jobs ran tape-to-tape, i.e. one tape was input and one tape was output. There were many removable disk-drives of several platters per drive. We had 10,000 9-tracks tapes, so the management of them was always an issue.
After 1.5 years, I became a computer operator. At that point, I recall that we upgraded to a 90/70 with more "core" memory (the real core memory). We later added a second 90/70. At that point, everything was run in a batch mode. Our customers would send us tapes or we could generate tapes via a modem arrangement. The customers would send in daily transactions and we would post them for them. We would run bills once a month as well as delinquent notices once a month. There were a lot of printed reports because there was no on-line access at all.
We used to have problems reading the tapes and you could flip the head-cover open and press your fingers on the underside of the moving tape to force the tape to contact the heads better. The systems had CRT consoles and the consoles would lock up. The console keyboards thumb-screwed onto the console, so we would remove them and clean the contact strips with a pink pencil eraser. This would usually restore the consoles.
In order to power up or power down these machines, there were many discrete steps of powering individual pieces, turning switches off, etc. To boot them, there was a series of rocker switches on the CPU that you could use to enter the boot address, etc. We ran disk-to-disk backups every night, which required rebooting the computer to a special backup mode, setting up the disk-drives, and then waiting the 3-hours in took to run the backups.
We gradually built a satellite-based (VSAT, KU-band) online system where our customers had synchronous terminal clusters that they used at their premise that communicated via satellite back to our facility. This was a major advance and used the 90/80 platform.
We gradually needed more capacity and elected to stay with Sperry-Univac (Unisys) and went with their 1100-series mainframe. This was an odd machine that was water-cooled, use a 36-bit word length, and used a completely different operating system than the previous 90-series. This amounted to a huge conversion effort. We stayed with this series of computers for a while replacing them occasionally, until the last one was a 2200 that was no longer water-cooled and about 1/4 the size of the original 1100.
We then decided that we would offload our centralized processing unto the customer premise. We did a big RFP and ended up going with DEC at the introduction of their VAX-series. We still have a few of these scattered about. Each customer had their own VAX and they could have various levels of involvement with it, including printing their bills at their premise.
The came the advent of PCs where we finally replaced all of the terminals that we used for product development, etc., with PCs. Then our customers wanted PC integrated into their VAX environment.
The more recently, we rewrote our entire user interface in Java, which runs on Linux servers using Progress and Oracle.
So, the evolution started with really big boxes and now everything that we sell is basically PC-sized.
At that time, I used assembler, COBOL, C, some little languages, and the various flavors of JCL per platform.
About 8 years ago, we started using large-scale laser printers to produce bills, notices, etc. in black and one highlight color. We started with one customer. We now have 800 or so jobs that produce about 5-million pieces in the mail per month. We offer a complete solution where the customer's files is automatically sent to use, we generate the print-file, postal certify and sort it, print it, insert it, and then mail it. This involves a lot of processes, some manual, and some computer.
Our customers are rural electric cooperative throughout the US. These coops mainly distribute electricity, only a few generate it. They are setup as not-for-profit membership organizations. We are mainly a software house; we produce the software for their complete operations. The department I work in started as just a side-line but has grown considerably.
I don' program as much as I used and when I do, it is mostly in Perl, which works well for the tasks at hand. I work a lot with the third-party application that takes input data-files and outputs formatted print streams. I am also the system administrator for several of the productions servers as well as for the actual laser printers themselves.
We put blank paper in the printers and they output a complete billing statement with a perforated stub, etc. Some statements produce multiple pages. Although our primary market is electric coops, we also service telephone coops and small telephone companies. I do quite bit of work with the telecom customers.
No one knows if you'll be able to trust G again. I guess that's something all the other BS who have recovered their marriages will have to weigh in on. Perhaps the complete, blind trust you once had is gone for good.
I totally agree about blind trust being gone.
It's a process Pio. My wife built trust. In the first week she came home, OM contacted her a few times - She told me immediately. She also told OM she was telling me. That builds trust. She knows I can check her email, knows I do check her phone from time to time.
A few months ago, she was in a shop and OM walked in. She ran as far away as she could get. He pursued her. She called me straight away.
My wife has prooved I can trust her and this trust is not blind it is based on her actions.
Trust is earned Pio. For Gemela that would be her being accountable for her whereabouts, you being able to check her email, phone records. It would also be her being totally and completely honest and answering all questions about her affair - without hedging or saying why do you want to know that.......
But you have to be willing to let her back into your life.
Gemela ended up in a big problem yesterday. A few weeks ago a not-so-close Latina friend asked her to participate in a brunch for an American Womens' Group function here. She would have to wear a traditional Mexican outfit. I forget the name but larousse would know (charro?). Gemela said she could not do it because she had a doctor's appt that day (a lie). Friend calls back a few days ago and says she found the suit. Gemela still says no. Friend calls yesterday and asks gemela to put together a powerpoint presentation on Mexico (turns out the Latinas are only going to be the entertainment for the AWG brunch. It is also off camp which I'm not happy about. She repeats she has a doctor's appt. Friend says call and change the time. Gemela says it is with a specialist so not that simple. Friend insists and counters gemela at every turn. Says she needs gemela to help her or she has to change the menu (the hotel is providing the food - what menu?) from Mexican. Gemela tells her it is not Mexican food anyway - it is Tex-Mex which is no where near the same thing and the AWG wouldn't know the difference. Now gemela and friend are not speaking and friend is furious.
Now what I told gemela is that if she had told the truth from the very beginning (i.e she simply didn't want to go), she and friend would be getting along fine right now. The fact that she prefers to lie always gets her in to more trouble and then she has to feed lie after lie. For us to recover our M, we both have to be radically honest regardles of how painful that might be and she needs to be honest with her friends. What she did with the friend is so typical of her. She has always done this and it nearly always turns out badly and I won't support her in her lies any more.
We actually had a very good talk last night - even after the fiasco of an evening. DD1 went to art class yesterday and then she and gemela came to meet me at the soccer field (I was there because soccer starts before art is over). DD1 was in a snit the entire practice because there is another girl who is really good and was getting the better of DD1 at every turn. We get in the car to go home abd I see a drawing of a woman with REALLY BIG LIPS. I don't realize it is a self portrait. I made the comment that it looks like Julia Roberts. Gemela says it is more like Melanie Griffith. I counter with Meg Ryan with implants. We did this quietly but DD1 heard some of it. Anyway most of the rest of the evening was a disaster. I swear artists are soooo temperamental. I learned a lesson though.
Pio, I’ve kept off the site for some time now. Been busy and just concentrating on my life and family. I have looked in every now and then and was extremely happy when I read Todd’s positive news about his tumor and that you and G seemed to be getting along.
It’s a good thing there is a lot of distance between us. After reading your latest posts I feel inclined to whacking you on the head! It sure sounds as if you aren’t using it too much these days anyway! She is finally doing what you wanted! And how do you react?
Accepting that a divorce is a possible outcome is OK. Even wanting a divorce is OK. Having a divorce is fine too if that’s what you really want. But using D as a threat to keep you and your W in some sort of emotional bondage! That is a big no-no.
Look – you are an engineer. Means you don’t handle emotions well but should also mean you are ultra-logical. If you really 100% wanted a divorce then what is stopping you? For a divorce to go through it only needs one party to file. Basically you could file without telling G. You certainly don’t need her permission. You probably also know that most likely you will have to share custody. You will very likely get prime and G visitation rights. Don’t even DARE try to use the “don’t want to tear the mother from the children” excuse. Because that is all it is: an excuse.
Pio – the reason you have not filed is because you don’t want a divorce. You want control.
I guess you are afraid of opening up because opening up for healing also means opening up for another fall. Therefore you pull things out of your hat to keep at a constant level of pain because that pain feels “safe”. You are used to it. It’s one more emotional plateau you are on and now you are not willing to move off it.
Do not allow yourself the mental flagellation of dwelling on the affair, details, divorce and all the negative aspects. Yes – they need to be addressed for true reconciliation to take place but not every day! You really have to make a conscious decision and effort to push these thoughts out of your mind. Perhaps by telling G that at some time in the near future you will need these answers. One suggestion is to try to limit talk about the affair and its aftermath to certain times or dates.
You say you want to be happy…. Well SURPRISE! Gemelia will not make you happy. She might make you feel joy at some point but you alone can make yourself happy. I think G has enough to work on to not have to cajole you into a good mood.
Pio – I say this as a friend. You really need to get professional help. The stress you are in and the pain… The odds are really stacked against you. Is the IC G is going to the same one you went to some months ago?
Pio. I am sorry you are hurting. I think us, BSs, hold so strong through Plan A, that when R appears we just want to go back to Discovery Day and scream to WS: GET OUT OF MY LIFE YOU CHEATER!!! But there was a reason we decided to follow Plan A. To get M back. Because pain of A will not disappear with D. You need to let G make it up for you. You need to let her deposit in your love bank, whatever you need. Tell her! And sure, find a safe place to talk about A. Not all the time, and not when you are having a good moment with G. That happens to me a lot. Good moment brings thoughts of him behaving the same with OW. Find MC and maybe make it a safe haven to talk about anything/ everything. Pio, you helped me so much with your advice. Please use everything to help yourself and do not allow destruction take control. You told me the D is easier than R. You know it is hard. But the worst is over. I really think it is. ((((PIO))))))))))))) What happens if you cyberhug one side more than another?
How are you? Hope you are well. I recall early in my days at the other site, you hit me upside the head with a 2x4. It did me a world of good. Initially, it hit me as: WTF is worng with him? Can't he see that I am in pain? I read your post over and over and it finally sunk in.
I hope Pio does the same. I have sent a couple of blisters via email but he has ignored them. I truly hope he will heed your advice.
{I didn't want to use anyone's name lest I hurt someone's feelings)
Those are those one armed hugs where you stand beside someone, put your arm around them so that your hand is on their opposite shoulder and pull them in against your ribs.
Pio - It sounds like you are now the biggest threat to the marriage. That often happens. Please stop talking about divorce. If it is very difficult, try promising yourself you won't do it for a month, and see how things go.
Gemela needs to know that she CAN recover the marriage and have her rightful place by your side back.
FWIW, yesterday and today are the most hopeful I have been for my M since Dday. WW appears to be saying and doing all the right things. She knows it is her responsibility to reestablish trust and she knows she is on a zero-tolerance policy. I need to just give this time and work toward learning to love her again.
I refuse to let either of us get complacent though. We have to keep following the four rules.
That's over an hour spent on MMC. Hardly indicative of ADD. I am beginning to suspect that...suspect...that......what was I going to say? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I am not sure what it is about the word repose, but when I hear it, I conjure a man lying (laying?) on a sofa, dressed in a smoking jacket, smoking a stale, cheap cigar while watching rasslin'.
A guy in a smoking jacket watching wrestling? What planet are you FROM?
Guys who watch wrestling have on a dirty T-shirt, boxer shorts, haven't bathed in a week and are drunk asleep on the sofa in front of the TV with a beer spilled all over them that was in their hand before they passed out and a cigarette butt currently burning a new hole in the cushion.
The following are the contents of a memory test given to me in 1972. I have never done it in writing before so not sure of some spellings but the way you give the test is to recite to the person as follows:
One hen one hen, two ducks one hen, two ducks, three squawking geese.....etc.
It is a lot of fun to see folks try to repeat it. Some even get where they can not count while trying to recite it.
Have fun.
1. One Hen 2. Two Ducks 3. Three squawking geese 4. Four limerick oysters 5. Five corpulent porpoises 6. Six pairs of John L. Versos tweezers 7. Seven thousand Macedonian warriors dressed in full battle array 8. Eight brass monkeys from the ancient sacred crypts of ancient Egypt. 9. Nine apathetic, sympathetic, diabetic old men on roller skates with a marked propensity towards procrastination and sloth and, 10. Ten lyrical, spherical, diabolical descendents of the deep who haul and stall around the corners of the Quill, the Quo and the Quay all at the same time together.
A guy in a smoking jacket watching wrestling? What planet are you FROM?
Guys who watch wrestling have on a dirty T-shirt, boxer shorts, haven't bathed in a week and are drunk asleep on the sofa in front of the TV with a beer spilled all over them that was in their hand before they passed out and a cigarette butt currently burning a new hole in the cushion.
BTW it is rasslin', not wrestling.
Look, I cannot explain it. It is simply the vision I get when I hear or read the word repose. Do not like that word.
The following are the contents of a memory test given to me in 1972.
I can't even remember where I was in 2002.
I cannot remember where I was in 2002 either, but I do remember 1972. One of the things DS3 "helped" me with this past weekend was to narrow my zone of spotty memory to the last five years. He told me about a steak house we used to go to all the time. I cannot remember ever going there, eating there or the name of the place. What is so weird is that I could describe the logo to him. I asked him if I enjoyed the steak there and he said that I did. At least that is something.
Couldn't sleep last night Todd? Was it the dreams of Hugh reposing on a sofa? That would keep me awake. I never understood what women found attractive about him. Maybe some found the lifestyle attractive. You know, lounging by the pool with Hef, work consisting of having your photo taken nude, entertaining with your looks...I guess it appeals to a certain type.
Pio, you're probably sick of people telling you to hush with your anger & be nice but here's my version anyway.
All you really need now is to want to learn to love G again. Keep in mind that's one goal & let her work to make that happen. It's not easy to keep the anger at bay but it will feel better to approach this from a loving place rather than a hateful one.
DS1 came by last night and visited a while. After he left, I fell asleep at about 9:00 pm. I woke up somewhere around 2:00 with my pillow, bed and me drenched in blood. I assume it was from a nosebleed but no evidence of that. It was kinda weird really. But then, it is Halloween.
based on your response I am a bit disappointed because I guess we cannot discuss the benefits of analog computers. Too bad.
Unfortunately, that would be true. But it's a small negative. I'm sure that we have much more in common than we both can guess. We can talk about power tools. I'll start.
Last Christmas, I received a gift from the wife and DD13. I had left specific hints baout this gift. If you need the exact model number, I can find it for you, but it's a Bosch 14.4V impact driver. This is not an automotive impact driver, but one instead used to shoot screws. And shoot screws it does in a far more superior manner than a normal drill-driver. It really excels at remove stubborn screws. It does not have an adjustable chuck and instead only accepts hex-shanked bits. It is not intended to be used as a drill. It operates under the same principal as the automotive-type impact driver. It will not twist your arm off like some drill-drivers and long screws can often be shot one-handed. This is the single best new tool that I've used in quite a while. If you shoot a lot of screws (excluding drywall, etc.), it's a great addition to your shop.
DD comes home in 11 days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They have been in Chicago, then Bloomington - they're now in Washington DC, next stop NYC.
Each letter represents a person. The area formed by the dotted line is a river. Here is the story.
X is a woman who is madly in love with C. However, they are separated by the river. The river is too wide and the current too swift to cross without a boat. X knows that A has a boat and goes to him, tells him that she needs to cross the river to marry the love of her life, C. She asks A to take her across in his boat. A looks at her and tells her he will take her, but only if she agrees to make love to him. She gets upset and says no, I could never do that. I love C too much.
X wanders down the river bank and happens upon B. She tells B she needs to get across the river and tells him what A had demanded from her. B thinks for a long time and tells X that there is no way that he can help. X is broken hearted. She is so in love with C, as C is with her. Her heart yearns to be united with C and marry him. She sits down beside the river and cries. She thinks through the situation and finally accepts that the only way she will ever get across is to submit to A’s demands. She begrudgingly goes back to A and makes love with him. A then takes X across the river as he had promised. She saw C and ran to him. They hugged each other and held each other so tightly.
After a few minutes, X told C the story of what she had to do to get across the river. C was furious and told X he never wanted to see her again. Broken hearted, confused and tired, X wandered down the river bank and met D. She told D the entire story. D fell in love with X. They married and lived happily ever after.
Okay, here is your task. Write down all five characters in the story in the order you like them in the story. Do not post your responses yet.
While you accomplish that, I will write and post the second test.
BTW, I call this a test, but there are no right or wrong answers. Do not fear.
Arrange the following in the order in which you consider them important in your life. Write down your responses but do not yet post. BTW, these are in random order.
Morality Philosophy & Wisdom Heart & Home Power & Money Reality
Okay, it is slow so here are the lyrics to a song. Very appropriate for Halloween.
Purple People Eater.
Well I saw the thing comin' out of the sky It had the one long horn, one big eye. I commenced to shakin' and I said "ooh-eee" It looks like a purple people eater to me.
It was a one-eyed, one-horned, flyin' purple people eater. (one-eyed, one-horned, flyin' purple people eater) A one-eyed one-horned, flyin' puple people eater Sure looks stange to me. (one eye?)
Well he came down to earth and lit in a tree I said Mr. Purple People Eater don't eat me I heard him say in a voice so gruff I wouldn't eat you cuz you're so tough
It was a one-eyed, one-horned flyin' purple people eater one-eyed, one-horned flyin' purple people eater one-eyed, one-horned flyin' purple people eater Sure looks strange to me. (one horn?)
I said Mr. Purple People Eater, what's your line He said it's eatin' purple people and it sure is fine But that's not the reason that I came to land I wanna get a job in a rock and roll band
Well bless my soul, rock and roll, flying purple people eater. Pidgeon-toed, undergrowed, flyin' purple people eater (we wear short shorts) Flyin' purple people eater sure looks strange to me.
And then he swung from the tree and lit on the ground. He started to rock, really rockin' around It was a crazy little ditty with a swingin' tune (sing aboop boop aboopa lopa lum bam boom)
Well, bless my soul, rock and roll flyin' purple people eater. Pigeon-toed, undergrowed, flyin' purple peopleeater. Flyin' little people eater Sure looks strange to me. (purple people?)
And then he went on his way, and then what do you know. I saw him last night on a TV show. He was blowing it out, a'really knockin' em dead Playin' rock and roll music through the horn in his head (clarinet solo) ( Tequila)
If you're off with the maricachis while we sit here waiting...well...that would be unkind. That means next time you post your picture we won't tell you how hot you are. HUMPH!!
Kiwighoulj? There must be something to this. Do tell.
When we lived in Spain my boys attended a British school. My oldest had a Scottish teacher who was an equal opportunity bigot. On Holloween she said to my son "Oh you Americans ruin every holiday by over doing it." This was prompted by my bringing in for all the kids in my boys' classes tootsie roll pops with cloth over them with faces penned on & tied to look like ghosts.
When ever a pencil would brake she would say "Made in China, made to brake."
We still get a chuckle over the differences in educational systems.
ex has the boys tonight & won't let my oldest go trick or treating. I thought I'd wait to find out the details until after the day just in case ex had some thing nice in mind for him. Anyway...I bought him a variety of candy today so he wouldn't feel left out but I didn't want him to eat it all alone so...I had some (too much) now I fell sick. I think I need hard cider to make my stomach feel better. I'll keep you posted...
To all the licorice aficionados out there try the British brand Bassett's. You can get almost a pound bag, used to be a pound but now it's 14oz. for $3.00 VS the very pricey Australian brand favored by our very own Todd.
Remember, before you run to the store, I have purchased wine in a box & didn't get sick or embarassed.
I was working in the lab late one night When my eyes beheld an eerie sight For my monster from his slab began to rise And suddenly to my surprise
He did the mash He did the monster mash The monster mash It was a graveyard smash He did the mash It caught on in a flash He did the mash He did the monster mash
From my laboratory in the castle east To the master bedroom where the vampires feast The ghouls all came from their humble abodes To get a jolt from my electrodes
They did the mash They did the monster mash The monster mash It was a graveyard smash They did the mash It caught on in a flash They did the mash They did the monster mash
The zombies were having fun The party had just begun The guests included Wolf Man Dracula and his son
The scene was rockin', all were digging the sounds Igor on chains, backed by his baying hounds The coffin-bangers were about to arrive With their vocal group, "The Crypt-Kicker Five"
They played the mash They played the monster mash The monster mash It was a graveyard smash They played the mash It caught on in a flash They played the mash They played the monster mash
Out from his coffin, Drac's voice did ring Seems he was troubled by just one thing He opened the lid and shook his fist And said, "Whatever happened to my Transylvania twist?"
It's now the mash It's now the monster mash The monster mash And it's a graveyard smash It's now the mash It's caught on in a flash It's now the mash It's now the monster mash
Now everything's cool, Drac's a part of the band And my monster mash is the hit of the land For you, the living, this mash was meant too When you get to my door, tell them Boris sent you
Then you can mash Then you can monster mash The monster mash And do my graveyard smash Then you can mash You'll catch on in a flash Then you can mash Then you can monster mash
You just don't want to miss out on trick or treating do you Todd? All right then tomorrow it is. I'll go to bed & read. The hard cider did NOT make my stomach feel better from too much candy. Maybe instead of licorice I'll try some chocolate...hmmm
Just the thought makes me feel even sicker. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I'm thinking of another care package for you Todd. It needs to address bloody noses, trouble sleeping, memory loss, comfort foods, caller ID & Thanksgiving ideas. Lemme think...
Maybe tomorrow I'll have some ideas I can post...you'll just have to wait until then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I was actually kidding about waiting until tomorrow. I thought that post would be met with a firestorm of protest. Since it wasn't, I guess it is okay to wait...
I remember those tests from SI. I also remember that I flunked them. I especially get the one about the woman and the river confused with the missionaries and the cannibals.
An electric impact driver? Not in my tool box! I much prefer my K-D Tools P/N 1140 manual impact driver. There is nothing quite as satisfying as the sound and feel of a 10 pound sledge hitting squarely on the impact driver and watching the screw head slowly come out. Getting the satisfaction of watching every ounce of your sweat and effort slowly but progressively giving results. You people have no patience. You like everything fast. Where is the craftsmanship? Where is the joy?
Actually the screw has always bothered me. It is one of the few things that you have to push in to get out. This bothered me so much that I went through my entire house and replaced every single screw in every single appliance, piece of furniture, children's toy, stereo, computer, etc. with torx head screws. Now I'm living my life without compromise. Unfortunately I no longer need an impact driver.
Torx head screws are typically machine screws no? You can remove those as easily as any other screw. What am I missing?
I remember sitting in the "necessary room" at work one day and examining the screws that held the "modesty" panels in place. They were designed in such a way that there was an obligue raised edge on the right side of the screw head, which meant they could be tightened; but there was no edge to the left of center. IOW, the screws could not be removed, at least with a normal screwdriver. Always having been one to think about things in an unusual way, I tried to think of who would want to remove the panels? I mean really, what other use could one find for them?
Later, I discovered that there is indeed a special tool to remove the screws. I got the tool, removed the screws and replaced them with normal slotted screw heads. I was a happy camper. Two weeks later, management removed my screws and reattached the panels with the same old one sided screw heads. Someone in management obviously had too much time on their hands.
The foregoing was a true story. To the best of my recollection. No, wait, maybe it wasn't at work, but at the airport. I remember the nice policeman saying something about defacing municipal property... Yes, it is all coming back to me now: the handcuffs were too tight, the squad car stunk....
No you can get wood screws with torx heads as well. I will confess that I have no problem using square head woods screws. I have quite a collection still. But wood screws are better to remove with a screw extractor than an impact driver. I love screw extractors too. Impact drivers are best used on machine screws where the threads are really nice and rusted up.
When we went through the storage in September, I found four of my Akro bin cases (still wrapped) and I shipped them to Saudi. I am now sorting through all the hardware and putting everything in the correct bins. I have since discovered that I will never have to buy another cotter pin as long as I live. I have quite enough. I am probably a little short on clovis pins though. I also don't have a good variety of snap rings and that troubles me because I'm not sure how it happened. Maybe someone has been stealing my snap rings.
All...nothing really new...told WS I want D 3X this week...he slept somewhere else over w/e to give me "space" since I told him I did not want any contact with him....
we just had frank conversation and when I told him the only thing keeping me from packing his bags and finding him an apt was my DS (since my DD's would be ok with D) he left and said he needed to go for a ride...he told me tonight that he had ugly fights with 3 of the OWs since they all felt they had the right to ask him personal questions and put conditions on their Rs...I asked him why they would think that, how did their relationships get to that level and why all of the sudden is it crashing down on him...he is a mess, depressed, bitter, angry...I feel sorry for him but have reached the point of detachment and he is painfully aware...not sure where this is going and how fast but if I don't play hardball I will be stuck in this cycle forever...
On a lighter note, I had a good glass of Chardonnay followed by a hearty helping of Remy all before our talk...sat around the fire outside after the Trick-or-Treaters faded out
I feel the need to be honest and direct with WS even if he isn't with me...I know it upsets him to hear the truth but I don't see the point in pretending...if we ever are to move from this horrific place it should be based on truths...if it ends in D at least I know he had all the facts
I can totally understand Pio cuz I am at the same point although our sitches are much different...I am basically handing him his get out ticket and he is adamantly refusing but won't do anything besides refuse and spin in circles...he says that is how he feels...exhausted and spinning with no direction...he needs IC but won't do it on his own
Anyway, enough of that mess
Todd...are you going to post the interpretations so I can see how crazy I really am???
Don't want to be a 'downer'.....but I haven't been feeling so hot the last few days.... been trying to figure out why...but maybe there isn't any answer....just part of the rollercoaster.... thought it might help to 'put it out there'.....
...wondering if 'subconsciously' I am already anticipating the holiday season.... major trigger overall.... you know....family stuff... when I feel I no longer have one.... yeak! ...not looking forward to it...that's for sure!
Did you ever read the Dobson excerpt that believer posts from time to time? Maybe she can post it for you again. I found it to be so true and it sounds like what your WH is doing as well. It is funny that some waywards will try anything to get out of the M. Then when you finally hand them the ticket, the backpeddle like crazy and will do anything to avoid having to go. In my case I literally had to force gemela out the door. I think it was the best thing I ever did. I finally gave her everything she thought she wanted. She realized she didn't want it.
So WH had fights with 3 of his OW's. How many is he still on good terms with? I am amazed that he feels no guilt about telling you all this. Wow.
Forcing WH out may be the key to saving your M. Unfortunately for you (as was the case for me), you are no longer interested in saving your M. My biggest struggle right now is forcing myself to take an interest in gemela and the M. I am starting to do it (I hope) but it takes a lot of effort.
I don't think you should hold out till spring. You need to go to Plan B or Plan D ASAP. Stop your Plan A. Still avoid DJ's and LB's. If you are truly detached, that shouldn't be hard. If he remains in the house, go completely 180 on him for as long as he is there.
Luna, I think you are spot on...I have been having same type of thoughts and am dreading the upcoming holiday season...I am trying to psych myself up for the kids sake and since kid laughter and excitement is contagious I have figured if I can spark them then I will be able to feed off of it for a while <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
sorry you are having a tough time; I feel your pain
I know Todd will have the perfect RX for you...Todd...Todd...are you there Todd????
Uh oh...Pio may reply in Todd's absence and that can not be good...he will definitely RX some insane chemical formulat that must be ingested while positioned in a certain angle at a particular time of the day when the earth is at a specific axis...I bet you could remedy it yourself with some chicken noodle soup, a nice big Godiva chocolate and polish it off for good measure with your LOC (liqour of choice)! Solves all the worlds problems for me...not to mention monthly miseries <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I stopped plan A the moment my promise to you ended the first week in Oct...I have basically 180'd which is what triggered all of his accusations of me having OM...
I know I have love for him but at this point don't feel it is worth the effort until I see some type of evidence/committment on his part...he is well aware of how serious I am and knows I will do anything I need to do to help him get out of here
I am torn to pieces over DS reactions and halted my follow through b/c of this...I know he will adjust no matter what but he's my special guy and I hate destroying his world...with his special needs he requires routine, consistency, predictability and any transition to change is intense and draining on all involved. I don't know if I have it in me now...it may be easier on the kids if the separation happens at the same exact time as the relocation...only problem is I don't know if I can hang that long...time will tell
Good luck on digging deep and finding those lost feelings for G...makes you feel so vulnerable I bet...always wondering in the back of your mind if there is an ulterior motive etc. I think you need to squash all that crap even though it is natural to think that way. for the sake of trying to save anything worth saving and to create a spectacular new relationship you are going to have to do what BK said and suck it up and pretend for a while until the real thing surfaces...it will...it just takes time and trust...you can do this, so don't even try and act like you can't...you are just being difficult and rebellious and letting your taker out for a breather...keep it up and my combat boot will have to come down hard right on your pink shorts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />YES I DID
Have you gone to SF already? If you have, that might explain the downer. It would certainly depress me!
Not yet, Pio....going in about a week....that will be good (why would it depress you...you mean, coming back?)....but when I am back...it will be sort of demanding.... birthdays of my two boys (plus WS's) will be happening....and will continue with xmas holidays and new year.... just for a moment I wish it was already January... to avoid the rollercoaster ride of emotions...did I tell you D-day for me was during the xmas holidays? ....yeak...yeak...
...might as well admit it....I will have to come clean sooner or later....this saturday is my birthday... getting a chance to see again how A has affected those around me
....I am very touched to see my friends wanting so badly to make me feel 'special' and 'appreciated' and not be 'alone' that day... am actually embarrassed by all the attention... and am also feeling anger towards WS for having left a void (read: responsibility) that they are so very hard wanting to fill...
It's OK....don't worry.....as you and I know...it will pass...like a lot of other moments...like the waves of the ocean...just have to wait it out...we all have survived worse!
I can easily buy some time and put 'it' off at least until after my trip to SF! ...now...that sounds like a good plan to me!
but he's my special guy and I hate destroying his world
2much...you didn't do that...your WS's choices did!
Quote
you can do this, so don't even try and act like you can't...you are just being difficult and rebellious and letting your taker out for a breather...keep it up and my combat boot will have to come down hard right on your pink shorts
uhmmmmm....Pio....better do as she says....don't think your Pink Shorts could survive a licking from 2much's combat boot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Once I made up my mind to get gemela out, I was desperate to get her out. I counted the minutes. Your Plan A had its effect. Your WH still remembers that. Now that his safety net is disappearing, he wants it back. The sooner you can get him out, the better it will be for you and even for your chances of recovering the M. The only thing you gain by delaying is more resentment. If you still have some feelings of love, kick him out now. Each day he kills those feelings a little bit more. I held on way too long. I see it now but didn't then.
You just totally confused me. Have you kept the thread on hold that long???
Now Pio...I KNOW I am no computer know-it-all like you (as if you hadn't noticed....LOL!)....but...I do know for a fact that by not clicking the 'OK, submit' button only puts a hold on.....MY POSTING! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
and how are you....uhmmm...this DAY!
...be back in a little while to find out....gotta go!
DS1 surprised me with a late night visit last night. He ended up spending the night. His photo lab is a mile from here so he comes to this area often. Woke up to a bloody pillow, bed, face, chest, arm and shoulders again. Hmm... how much blood does the human body have?
I guess everyone who plans to take the "test" has chimed in. BigK is abstaining and Luna is, well Luna seemed to stay awake all night so she will presumably sleep instead of taking the test. I will put the answer analysis in the next post.
I get lab work done tomorrow and then see my endo next week. His goal is to check my hormone levels since the tumor is shrinking and determine if I can stop taking hormone supplement. I guess he will check all the other stuff too like cholesteral, etc. For whatever the reason, my cholesteral is chronically low, averaging 138. We'll see where my testosterone, cortisol and thryoid are. Meanwhile, I am chewing my knees off today.
BTW, did I talk about electric motors and generators and perpetual motion machines yet? I know I posted something the other day, but there was yet another MB snafu. Takes the fun out of posting to this joint. I know there is pent-up demand for more magnetism discussion and I will not disappoint. I love magnetism. I think it holds the key which will unlock the secrets of the universe.
Okay TKO test takers, here is how to interpret your test results. BTW, this test was given by my psych professor to our class. Do not take it too seriously. Still, if it offers you insight, great.
Each of the five characters represents a facet of life. When you read the story and arranged the characters in the order you like them, it was essentially your subconscious at work. Here is what each of the characters represents:
A – Power & Money X – Reality B – Philosophy & Wisdom C – Morality D – Heart & Home
The second test asked you to arrange the above five facets in your preferred order. This process used your conscious mind to do so.
What you should now do is to write the above facets next to each of your responses in the first test and then compare the order of ranking of the two tests. It is rare to have complete congruence but it does happen. You are looking for a pattern that suggests whether your conscious and subconscious minds are “aligned”.
Not sure I explained this very well. If any questions, please ask away.
Please feel free to publish your results. Hint: the longer we discuss this, the longer it will be before the next discussion of magnets and electricity.
When I was a teen, I always had the fantasy of………whoa, wait a minute, I just got off track. I don’t think I should talk about that here. Oh, I know what it was: the fantasy of driving across country. When I am well enough, can see well enough, get my driver’s license back and get a car, I will make the trip. For some reason, I have driven through the midsection of the country including Tehas, Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, etc. Also, have driven the Pacific Northwest including Washington, Oregon, Northern Cali and drove to Victoria from Port Angeles, Washington. What are left are the west and the northeast. I hope to do both next year in two different trips.
Speaking of Cali, Luna, when you go to SF, there are some must dos. How many days will you be there? If you like Chinese food, you must go to Chinatown and eat at least once. It is the best Chinese food presumably east of China, HK and Taiwan. Of course, ride the streetcar. I highly recommend the one named “Desire”. Drive across the Golden Gate Bridge. Notice the painters who paint the bridge year round. It takes them that long. Then there is Alcatraz, Fisherman’s Wharf, etc. I am envious frankly. I love SF. Chuckle.
Geez Todd.... a surprise visit from your son? ....that must have been fun! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ....my DS15...even though he is supposedly at dad's...does not stop him from 'hanging around with GF' at the house on weekends....
Quote
Woke up to a bloody pillow, bed, face, chest, arm and shoulders again. Hmm... how much blood does the human body have?
...what do the docs say? ...is this normal 'side effects'?
uhmmmmm...don't know about pillows....could tell you more about 'sheets'......and, let me tell you, it doesn't take much to make a mess! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> (...and yes....I know the thread about the feminine aisle would be better suited for this comment...but then...don't think the guys here arrived with the last load of turnips... unless....maybe... that's... not...the...case!...LOL)
Quote
Speaking of Cali, Luna, when you go to SF, there are some must dos. How many days will you be there? If you like Chinese food, you must go to Chinatown and eat at least once. It is the best Chinese food presumably east of China, HK and Taiwan. Of course, ride the streetcar. I highly recommend the one named “Desire”. Drive across the Golden Gate Bridge. Notice the painters who paint the bridge year round. It takes them that long. Then there is Alcatraz, Fisherman’s Wharf, etc. I am envious frankly. I love SF. Chuckle.
...off in a week and a half..a few days in the Monterey region and 3 days in SF...I will make sure NOT to leave my heart there..... thanks for the suggestions.....would you say that a trip to visit Alcatraz is worth it...or...like..a jail is a jail...and just seeing it from afar is enough?
Quote
I am envious frankly.
...sounds to me, though, you have done quite a bit of travelling already.... I like your travelling plans for when you get better....
...and yes....I have chosen NOT to do the test....not enough brain cells to go around! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...I am trying to get up the courage to tell my very anxious-ridden boss that...it might be fine short-term.... but his need to call me, once or twice, early in the morning at home to tell me that he will not be coming in the office is having a bit of an effect on me long-term and is really not necessary (and that the phone message that he leaves me at work about it will do just fine!)..... I am prepared to tell him that I will just ASSUME he is not coming in, even though he is expected in...and deal with work-related issues when I get to WORK.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
It has been escalating over the past 2 yrs... I need to set my boundaries.....I have been encouraging him to get into a support group...am hoping they have mentors who he could call when 'anxiety' attack strikes...
Dealing with his anxiety issues during the workday is enough for me....I really need to ask him to 'limit' himself to that...and I hate doing it.....I know he needs help...has been isolating himself....maybe this would force him to 'widen' his circle....
Booka....I don't know what it means...but one out of five in my book is not good... I do believe, according to Todd, this means that your conscious and subconscious mind may not be aligned as much as they could...
Maybe Todd could provide some concrete examples of what this means...???
...on a good note...being aligned in 'philosphy & wisdom' can't be all that bad!
...I know when my spine is aligned, or not...then it's time for a massage......does that count, Todd? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Subconscious Conscious 1.heart and home 1. Morality
2.reality 2. heart and home
3.philosophy and wisdom 3. reality
4.morality 4. philosophy and wisdom
5.power and money 5. power and money [ Ok, I'm pretty congruent...BAAwwwwhhhhaaaaa... except for the fact that I consciously choose morality as #1 but my inner self has it way down as #4. I see this as sooooooo true of my sitch...I want so badly to deal with the moral issue of lies/betrayal/adultery/infidelity but my high value of heart and home both sub and conscious are squelching my moral efforts. I pretty much could care less about power and $ which is true as long as I have enough for the basics I can be happy.
Ok, Dr Todd tell us what you think of our post personalities matching up with our psych results...what says ye?????
Hey I have exciting news. I had commented before that I was a little concerned about Frijolito and Chuchito Dos (remember that Pepito I was tragically killed and Chuchito I died quietly in his sleep). Well F and C2 seemed just a little too close for my personal taste. It was even a bit embarrassing at times and I was afraid of the role model they were being for the DDs. It seemed they were "confused" about their sexuality. They were so confused, in fact, that we apparently have a new addition to the hamster family. No name as of yet. While this is obviously exciting news, it is also a bit concerning. We really don't want this behavior continued. So I got gemela's cuticle clippers and Frijolito will be going "under the knife" in a few hours after I do a little more research on the web. Is malt vinegar a good antiseptic? It's about all I can find in the kitchen.
No but we were inhaling helium earlier while deflating the Halloween mylar balloons. We all got a bit giddy. But that was hours ago. I have to be down to way less than 0.08% BAC of helium by now. Besides, the only thing we have in the house is malt vinegar and I'll be needing that shortly.
One interesting outcome from the test Todd presented is that money and power was ranked last by all of us. I guess if we did not realize how unimportant they are before infidelity touched our lives we certainly appreciate the fact now.
As 2much mentioned - are there any results Todd?
Pio, congratulations on the new addition to your hamster family. I hope someone took the cuticle clippers away from you.
I'd rather I chase your shadow all my life Than be afraid of my own I'd rather be with you I'd rather not know Where I'll be than Be alone and convinced that I know
When the world keeps spinning round My world's upside down And I wouldn't change a thing I've got nothing else to lose I lost it all when I found you And I wouldn't change a thing No, you and I wouldn't change a thing
Everything I know has let me down So I will just let go Let you turn me inside out Cause I know I'm not sure about anything But you wouldn't have it any other way
When the world keeps spinning round My world's upside down And I wouldn't change a thing I've got nothing else to lose I lost it all when I found you And I wouldn't change a thing No, you and I wouldn't change a thing
Spinning turning watching burning All my life has found its meaning Walking crawling climbing falling All my life has found its meaning
You and I wouldn't change a thing No, you and I wouldn't change a thing
When the world keeps spinning round My world's upside down And I wouldn't change a thing I've got nothing else to lose I lost it all when I found you And I wouldn't change a thing No, you and I wouldn't change a thing
Hamsters are too small for a good meal, even if you have multiples. Now, guinea pigs make a good meal. DD13 has one. They are considered a delicacy in Peru. DD13's pig is so big, I call him Pigzilla. He is an eating machine and prefers red-leaf lettuce over iceberg. I'm thinking a little rosemary and olive oil, baked perhaps! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Beauty queen of only eighteen She had some trouble with herself He was always there to help her She always belonged to someone else
I drove for miles and miles And wound up at your door I've had you so many times but somehow I want more
I don't mind spending everyday Out on your corner in the pouring rain Look for the girl with the broken smile Ask her if she wants to stay awhile And she will be loved She will be loved
Tap on my window knock on my door I want to make you feel beautiful I know I tend to get so insecure It doesn't matter anymore
It's not always rainbows and butterflies It's compromise that moves us along, yeah My heart is full and my door's always open You can come anytime you want
I don't mind spending everyday Out on your corner in the pouring rain Look for the girl with the broken smile Ask her if she wants to stay awhile And she will be loved And she will be loved And she will be loved And she will be loved
I know where you hide Alone in your car Know all of the things that make you who you are I know that goodbye means nothing at all Comes back and begs me to catch her every time she falls
Tap on my window knock on my door I want to make you feel beautiful
I don't mind spending everyday Out on your corner in the pouring rain Look for the girl with the broken smile Ask her if she wants to stay awhile And she will be loved And she will be loved And she will be loved And she will be loved
[in the background] Please don't try so hard to say goodbye Please don't try so hard to say goodbye
Yeah [softly] I don't mind spending everyday Out on your corner in the pouring rain
Beth, just to let you know I didn't ignore your request for pictures of my work. I posted a link on one of my posts a day or so ago rather than to my web site. One, my web site has very old pictures, two, it has some personal stuff on there.
Yes, it has been slow around here but as the holidays pick up there will be plenty to write about. You know, this spouse or that former spouse will start acting up. I myself just got an email from ex wanting to schedule Thanksgiving & Christmas & a vacation he has planned in May. Nothing unusual at first glance but if I can't accomodate his wishes things will likely heat up.
I haven't been called this week at all for substituting so I've been spending lots of time in the studio. Good for me because I love to be there, not so good for the bank account until the pieces are ready to sell.
I gave it a try. Riyadh appears to be +9 hours from my locale. I don't know which city Pio is closest to, there were just two city selections available for SA.
I would like to visit Down Under some time, as well as NZ.
Thanks for posting the link, I found it tonight and took a peek at your work. You are very talented, it must be such a satisfying feeling to be able to prouduce items of beauty like that. I liked everything I saw but loved #7 just something about the color and shape that really caught my eye. You certainly have a great variety of pieces. When you get some free time you really should get your site up and running. I hope you will let me know when it is ready.
Pio,
What is the current hamster count? What do your daughters think of the new additions?
Todd,
Did our answers frighten you away? Hope you are okay !
Steph,
What is happening with you? How are the dates going?
Hi to everone else - hope you are all having a good week.
Well, my H may have moved out last weekend but he has been around every day since. Calling in to pick up something he forgot or one of the boys will call him for help with homework etc. It's really strange as I feel no animosity towards him at the moment at all. I guess I now expect nothing from him and that must make all the difference. He cannot let me down now. Something else to discuss with IC tomorrow.
We are between Riyahd and Kuwait City so on that time zone.
I was wondering. Has anyone ever tried a psychic hotline to get some idea how their marriage will turn out? Now that I have Skype, I think I can call 900 numbers. Just an idea. Of course I wouldn't be calling any other type of 900 numbers!
Of the pictures of your work that you posted, the one that appealed to me the most was the topmost picture of the textured cylindrical object. I am no art critic, so don't read anything into my choice. You appear to be very talented. Keep up the good work!
What is happening with you? How are the dates going?
Hi Beth-
I guess I've just been posting on my thread, so everyone here is out of the loop...sorry about that!!
WH came over for our talk on Sunday and said if I was still willing to work things out, so was he. We had a long talk about everything, and he moved back in on Monday. I wasn't ready for that, but he really didn't ask me about it, he just did it. Monday was fine, Tuesday, we argued a little, Wednesday we argued a lot, Thursday was fine. We started to get back into our same old routine and I'm having a hard time breaking us of that. I just don't know how to do it. But we talked Thursday morning about our argument the night before and we both said again that we were committed, so we're going to stick with it.
How are you doing Beth? And everyone else? I'm sorry I haven't had much time to chat with you guys....busy working on some sort of marriage, or something... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Sure on low gear here...ok with me as I am seriously buried in work right now...I can't wait until mid-Nov and then I have a long break.
Nams...I liked photo #6 the best...lots of great pieces though...I am not a huge pottery fan but really drawn to #6.
Steph...good luck with the new living arrangements...don't get back into the old ruts no matter what, if you do you'll feel as though you were in a time warp...take it from one who knows.
Todd, where are you? Are you ok? Booka has felt obligated to fill in lyrics...he is taking your job Todd or did you two do a little off-line negotiating to exchange TKO responsibilities for times of low productivity?
Booka...I agreed with your box wine advice, the black label or black box whatever it's called is fair. They do have quite a few new ones out there now. I have taken a liking to Handley Chardonnay...nothing fancy but I like it. I finally polished off my RM and am contemplating what to try next...any advice for a budget pocket? Don't want to spend more than $25 for a pint of whatever...willing to live on the edge and try something new. I detest sweet and fruity beverages and prefer to feel the heat...so let's hear what you have to say.
I almost had a smoke the other day when I was so stressed...it has been 11 years smoke-free but I was about to go berzerk...thank God the neighbor wasn't home b/c I was in a bathrobe in the middle of the day doing paperwork about to reach nuclear blast levels...I was going to go out door to door to get a smoke...to stressed to actually buy some...that would mean i would have had to actually act human, get dressed and be somewhat presentable...I was crazed...of course as everything does...it passed!!!
Beth, sounds like you are doing quite well considering your sitch...good for you. I'm glad you are able to keep it together...shows the WS what you are really made of.
Hugs to all especially those who have been absent...I hope its all good reasons for your absence. Larousse...prayers for your Dad, hope you are hanging in there.
Sorry to hear that Todd. Hope you feel better soon.
2much, nothing cooking. It's Saturday and at last a lovely summer day. I'll be out in the garden as soon as I've done some cleaning. No, I'll be out in the garden - forget about the cleaning.
Todd, Sorry to hear you have the flu...I wouldn't recommend your routine RX...I think the sleeping is the best thing for it. Are you sure it's the flu...no signs of an infection or anything? Have any of the DS's checked on you yet? I hate being virtual friends...makes you feel useless...I'd be over there making sure you were hydrated and cleaning up the germs...sorry, just know that if I were there your entire house would smell of bleach or disinfectant...doorknobs, light switches, you name it, if it can carry a germ I would attack it...quietly though so you could sleep.
Be sure to drink plenty of liquids (all nonalcoholic of course). Hang in there.
Kiwi,
Sounds like you are going to have a lovely day...you are right to skip the cleaning...it will be waiting, don't worry. Get your hands dirty and have a summer cocktail for me. I have the fire going and am trying to sort through all my paperwork here...drinking a cup of joe, of course.
Kids have their last soccer games this w/e...I can hardly wait...it will be about 30-40 degrees when they play so I will be all wrapped up and you guessed it...drinking a cup a joe.
I'm trying to maintain sanity and remain focused on happy thoughts but am having a hard time. What can I say, it's been one of those years. I can't wait for 2007.
{{{{{Todd}}}}} Feel better soon. You'll notice you got the good hugs.
Thanks for the very nice comments on my work.
2much, you crack me up, you're "not a big pottery fan" I LOL & my middle son was standing near by & I told him that & he said "I like all kinds of art just not pottery." Funny. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
The one guy I dated since my D was not moved by my work. I think he made a comment about getting a bowl for less at WalMart. Never did give him a present of my work. That's OK, I don't expect everyone to like my work.
The black cylinder was just sold at a silent auction & the man who bought it told me he felt he got the best buy of the show. I was happy with the way that piece came out. The other one that people seem to like is the red, wide bowl. I actually made a couple of those for a woman who had contacted me through my web site. I made them, photographed them & sent her the pictures but she never got back to me. No big deal, I sold them at the gallery I'm in.
Beth, my site is up it's just not running. Most of my work sells in the $10 to $100 range. Pottery costs a lot to ship so the smaller less expensive pieces can add a significant portion of the purchase price to ship. I should use it as a means to show my work for people who request it. I'll put more time in one of these days...
Booka...I agreed with your box wine advice, the black label or black box whatever it's called is fair. They do have quite a few new ones out there now. I have taken a liking to Handley Chardonnay...nothing fancy but I like it. I finally polished off my RM and am contemplating what to try next...any advice for a budget pocket? Don't want to spend more than $25 for a pint of whatever...willing to live on the edge and try something new. I detest sweet and fruity beverages and prefer to feel the heat...so let's hear what you have to say.
Ah, if you want some heat, it's time to investigate Zinfandel, which is one of my favorite varietals. The good news is that it is not a popular varietal, so most prices are reasonable. Now when I say Zinfandel, I'm talking about the purplish stuff, not the pink stuff. I don't know where they get the pink stuff from. I don't drink the pink stuff, although I've heard that it's good with tacos. The Rancho Zabaco brand has some good Zins and is widely available (Gallo owns the brand, Gallo owns a lot of brands). I opened a Cline Ancient Vines, about $13.00 at Sam's Club, very good stuff. I always think of Zin being the perfect winter wine. One huge note of caution, if you are in some type of environment where multiple wines will be served, do not start with the Zin. It's best to finish with the Zin. Why, you ask? The Zin is a very powerful wine and will usually overpower/overshadow anything to follow. Trust me on this. The best Zin in my collection is a Louis Martini Gnarly Vine, it will blow your head clean off!
Quote
I almost had a smoke the other day when I was so stressed...it has been 11 years smoke-free but I was about to go berzerk...thank God the neighbor wasn't home b/c I was in a bathrobe in the middle of the day doing paperwork about to reach nuclear blast levels...I was going to go out door to door to get a smoke...to stressed to actually buy some...that would mean i would have had to actually act human, get dressed and be somewhat presentable...I was crazed...of course as everything does...it passed!!!
I've never really smoked cigarettes. An occasional cigar is possible, but I do not inhale. I did Skoal for about 15-years and quit cold-turkey. All of that is an aside. Thes best thing that I've found for stress and anxiety is excersize. I work-out for an hour every day. When I have anxiety outside of that, I take a brisk walk. Not in my bathrobe though. Now you might think, what does the old Booka know about this stuff. I've had the worst year of my life. I will never forget this year. I started exercising to combat the madness of my situation. I'm not a casual exerciser, when I'm done I'm a ball of sweat. A good start for me is 50-60 minutes on the elliptical. When I take an anxiety walk, I'm really walking. I imagine running around the outside of your house while naked might yield a neutral effect but have a positive effect on your neighbor! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What crummy timing for the flu. Now i've been of the opinion in the past that enough bourbon will kill the germs. It's a fun experience if nothing else. I picked up a Evan Williams barrel-select 10-year old the other day, nice stuff. Anyway, I hope you feel better and that the experience doesn't ruin your weekend.
My darling wife has a sinus infection and started on ABs yesterday. As you might imagine, she was less than charming this morning, but she clearly was not feeling well. I did have some sympathy and apologized for my attempt at lightening her day.
I visited the shrink today (she is super hot!) to talk about my meds. Things are going well in that department. I using Lexapro (10mg) for ADs after having a bad experience with Wellbutrin, and use Lunesta (3mg) to assist with sleep. I've come to the conclusion that the ADs really, really have helped me and that my depression is not just situational. I heartily recommend them if you're in need.
That is too funny. My 2cnd fav was the red bowl!!! Pretty much the reason I'm not a pottery lover is that I have a tendancy to break things and I hate dusting. I try to avoid dust collectors and fragile items. I do have a collection of Hibel prints framed and Gustafson's for the kids.
I am a northeasterner. I did try Zin once and it was at a Florida restaurant...I have since relocated...obviously and have yet to be able to find one like it...I have no idea what the brand was so I have been searching. It was semidry with a hint of fruit, mildly oaky and had a clean finish. So, based on that what do you think?
Sorry this last year has been so bad for you too. I do exercise and am in the best shape I've been since before childbearing. It is a temporary fix...I'm just overall miserable. I'm sure it will pass but I am not identifying with my pain anymore, I'd just like it to go away...I've had enough fun on the rollercoaster...I'm on puke mode now. I can't look at anything or hear anything without wondering and that pure stinks.
In the absence of anything else happening on TKO, the English prof is going to post her favourite poem, now a cliche, but like all cliches, a cliche for a reason.
And, it is a beautiful summers day here.
Shall I compare thee to a summers day Sonnet 18 William Shakespeare
Shall I compare thee to a summer's day? Thou art more lovely and more temperate. Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May, And summer's lease hath all too short a date. Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines, And often is his gold complexion dimmed; And every fair from fair sometime declines, By chance, or nature's changing course untrimmed. But thy eternal summer shall not fade Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st; Nor shall death brag thou wand'rest in his shade, When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st, So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.
I remember when DD1 was just a few months old and we went 4 wheeling in the desert dunes of Dubai with a group. I ripped my Davis Drive Right out of my Jeep so SLB couldn't download the data and off we went. Of course we had a car seat for DD1. I was a bit nervous how she would handle it but the 4 wheeling was far worse than I had imagined. Up and down. Side to side. Poor little DD1 was being tossed back and forth so much she looked like a muslim praying during Ramadan. She loved it. I don't think she has ever had a better time in her life.
I think I need to stay off other threads. I made an critical observation about an action of a poster and all I saw was indignant justification. Do you know what it reminded me of? A fogged out WS justifying an A. What occurred to me is that this justification fog doesn't apply only to affairs. Apparently it is a natural human response.
BTW BigK I do agree with you. While I will never agree with FC's actions, I always appreciated her honesty. At least she was honest about being dishonest. What I detest are hypocrites - those who pretend to be one thing but are really another. Those that put up a facade to make us believe they are something they are not. I have zero tolerance for that.
Oh did I mention I hate spth20? I hate it when people with good memories use my own words against me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
But you are right stph20. Thanks for the admonishment.
Yes, you probably do need to stay off other threads. You upset enough people on this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It's fireworks night tonight. Guy Fawkes night, Bonfire night. It's actually tomorrow but being a Saturday night everyone will be letting them off tonight.
When I was a kid, Guy Fawkes night was on the one night, November 5, and we had family fireworks.
Now, it's just another excuse to let off fireworks, make a freaking loud noise till 2 in the morning, scare all the animals and make sure the Fire Department has lot's of work. The neighbourhood kids have already started and it's not even dark yet.
Geez, I'm getting old.
Oooh, and a prize goes to the first correct explanation for Guy Fawkes night. But you're not allowed to be British or Australian to answer.
It was really strange this last weekend. I don't know that the A ever crossed my mind. I had a little trouble with it Wednesday night and this was compounded by a very bad decision on my part to agree to look after and take DD1's friend home from soccer with us so friend's mom could go somewhere else. Huge mistake that ruined the rest of my evening. But Thursday and Friday were totally difference. Maybe because I stayed very busy. Don't know. But the A just seemed like ancient history for those two days. I think I have pushed myself back into semi-detachment which seems to be the safest place overall. I still know I can walk away from this deal with minimal pain and that is nice.
I was wondering if you might not be missing a great opportunity and WBBF (would be boyfriend) gave you the clue. What if instead of trying to spend so much time on unique and arty objects, you sacrificed quality a little so you could mass-produce a little bit more and sell your art at Walmart. Your sales margin per piece would drop significantly but your cash flow would go through the roof and you could still probably generate EBITA numbers in the 20+% range. And your work would reach more people! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Is it possible for you to scratch in "made in China" into your pottery before you bake it? I think that might be a requirement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Pio I was possibly too light with FC but she was a newbie. I really don't see how her situation can be dealt with in the same way as an oldtimer who KNOWS what she is doing. Suzet* or _ is just unbelievable.
When you are feeling better, can we discuss magnetism? I am curious about whether magnetism is subject to periodicity. I do have empirical evidence - specifically, my ability to attract large metal objects while riding my motorcycle.
But I would also like to discuss a) why you should never start a paragraph with the word "but" and b) malleability. Malleability is a property of a material that I have never completely understood. I guess my mind is not malleable enough to grasp it. Even so, it has bothered me for many years. I have studied materials science but this one escapes me.
I viewed FC as somebody questioning herself and, for that reason, could benefit from posting on MB. As I said, she was honest in her way. I guess I hoped that maybe at some time in the future she would change her opinion (or go on Maury Povich).
The problem with (F)WW's who claim to love their husbands but really don't is that they can really trigger somebody in my position (or Todd's). We are full of doubt, have zero self-esteem and are confronted with a WW who says they love us and want to be with us. They have already lost all credibility and completely destroyed our trust. They ask us to believe them or else we imagine that they might (as in Todd's case). When that happens, or minds flash back to the (f)WW's we are familiar with and we remember how they are deceiving their husbands and it makes us think the worst of our WW. I think I could imagine FC as my gemela in every conversation. I believe it could hinder recovery and might even destroy the marriage that might otherwise be saved.
So, I think FC should post on MB. I think FC should have her own thread. I would post on it. Unfortunately she would probably be tarred and feathered by others. But I agree it was probably best that she stay silent on this thread because Todd and I are pretty beat up right now. I'm still upset that some "anonymous" poster was trying to mess with 2regret and larousse.
I've been up & out already this morning getting middle son to a musical try out for a regional event. Eek, that boy is a slow poke!
Pio, thanks for your business advice regarding mass production. Nothing kills my creativity or desire quicker than a commission or the thought of mass production. Believe it or not you're not the first to suggest I make mugs with the name of a near by touristy town on them.
WBBF. Tee, hee. The boat has sailed on that. I actually had dinner with him the other night. We'd parted ways several months ago but have stayed in sporadic contact via email. I like this man, just not as a WBBF (love that phrase BTW). I thought we were on the same page regarding that but he gave me a hug that was a bit more than a friend hug & a kiss that was also. Oy.
2much, I try to make practical, pretty useful things. I'll admit that when I hand build, which I do maybe 50% of the time, I can get kinda whimsical. Not all of my hand built stuff has a clearly defined purpose so if the pieces if they're small I call it an earring/ring holder to be placed around your house in various locations. If it's big, like the black one, it can hold umbrellas. Sometimes they're just to look at like my little naked ladies.
What's funny is that people will take the most mundane things & elevate them to art status. One day I happened to be in the gallery when a woman was buying a plate & a bowl set. I introduced myself & thanked her for the purchase & made sure she understood the pieces were food safe, oven & micro wave safe. She looked at me funny & said, "Oh, no I won't be using these for every day things. They won't ever go in the oven or micro wave, they're for very special use." While I truly appreciate her desire to have my work it seems to me she would see them more if she actually uses them. After all they aren't fragile, they been "baked", as Pio says, tee, hee, to about 2165 degrees F.
Here's a chemical question for you Pio. If I have fired a piece, to about 2165 degrees F, which may be used with food & the clay body contains manganese will it leach into the food?
The only protection you would have would be the glaze. The manganese would, IMVHO, leach if there were no barrier (i.e. the glaze). As to the health issues associated with manganese, I have no opinion.
The wife dropped the bomb on me last night that she has filed for divorce. I should be served Monday. She also said something about a PDL to order me out of the house. I raged last night and got her up this morning to rage some more. After I calmed down, I asked her if this was cast in stone. She said yes.
I'm actually taking this quite well. I have sense of relief. She said that there is no one else. I have a bit of anxiety, but not too bad. I am going out with a good friend tonight and will discuss the situation with him further. He has been divorced once.
I told the wife I would make her life a living ****** to pay her back for how she's treated me, but that was during the heat of the moment and I feel that I will be fully cooperative, within reason. I think that I'll even let her keep the house and have her pay me a lump sum to leave. I would consider moving a few towns away from this one (15-20 miles). I want to start over anew.
Don't apologize for not doing a better job. It appears this is out of your control. You have done the best you can with what you have right? You can sleep knowing that you really did your best.
Stph asks a good question, are you certain there's no one else? It may or may not matter, but you may want to be sure just for your own peace of mind.
I don't know if you know anything about my story but ex claimed there was no one else yet he wanted to D. I was never able to confirm he had a GF but many things point in that direction. After a year of a fake recovery he went ahead with the D.
I believe it would have helped me to know for certain (in terms of my recovery & understanding what I was up against) one way or the other if he did have a GF. It certainly would have helped me to work the situation better than I was able to.
Having said that, ex also had his mind set on a new life. His GF may have been part of that, maybe even a big part, but he was anxious for change. He would say otherwise but I think wanting to live another life, so to speak, was a very strong pull for him.
as long as you are going to be putting potentially dangerous trace elements into your work, if you do decide to market through Walmart I have just three words for you: LLC.
booka,
I never have read your other thread but will do that today. It really does sound like there is someone else.
I am so sorry. I have been keeping up with your thread and know you have been working hard to make your marriage work. I am sorry now that I did not post to you there. Being in my own failed marriage I did not feel I could offer any good advice to anyone else. From now on I will at least post a hug. I've never done one before so here is my first hug to you ((((Booka))))
I'm so sorry Booka, you and I have been married about the same amount of years. I know we never dreamt we would end up here. Jut know you have a lot of good people that understand how you feel to keep you company.
Try to stay strong, some things are just out of our control.
I just started your thread. I saved it off and will read it in detail. I just wanted to say that I am totally convinced that your W is having an affair from the little I have read - BUT she may be having it vicariously. One of the things I have observed over my working career is that friends of people in trouble can easily get into trouble themselves. IOW, divorce is contageous. Your W spends much time with BF who is in LTA. W and BF talk about it. BF tells W all her complaints about her M. W starts to empathize with BF and progressively project herself (and her M) onto BF's situation. Pretty soon she finds all the problems in her own M that BF uses in hers to justify her A - and BF is HAPPY! That's not a hard sell. So if your W is not in a real A, she has convinced herself that it is the solution to all her problems. She has been breathing BF's fog far too long.
The first company I worked for there was a drafter who got into marriage problems and got divorced. Within 6 months the two people who sat next to him got divorced too. The it started to spread geographically to a couple more people. Fortunately the drafters kept pretty much to themselves in their tight little group.
I just read your post to Booka and it was a light bulb moment for me. My H is in a Partnership. One of the partners has been a long time "player". He quite freely flaunts his various women and his wife quite happily ignores the situation - yes she is aware of his "hobbies". My guess is she is quite prepared to exchange fidelity for life style.
Now looking back my H started saying things like "variety is the spice of life" etc. when we discussed his partners many affairs. He would then hurriedly add that it was of course his partners opinion and not his. Now, in hindsight I guess my H was influenced by his partner. I can only imagine the conversations that took place over cocktails!
We are the third marriage to disintergrate due to infidelity in the partnership. I was so busy thinking my health was the origin of the affair but perhaps it actually started much earler than that? You certainly have give me something else to ponder.
I have read the majority of your thread. You are a smart person and say you have no evidence of an A. I am tempted to believe you. Your W has been seriously conflicted for some time. I am no expert but I would say her conflict has lasted far longer than I would expect for being in an A. I still think she might be living her friend's A.
I also think you have been spending way too much time trying to put out the match that fell on the cushion and is burning a small hole that you never paid any attention to the 5 alarm fire going on behind you. Your W has been sending you some very strong signals and you have been focusing on details while not seeing the big picture.
Not wanting you to see her naked is a woman mentally preparing for D. It is not a woman self-conscious about her body. A woman self-conscious about her body and having an affair spends all day in the gym working out. Woman having an A (I think) are generally very happy except when they are around you. Your W seems almost as depressed as you.
I also ask myself how much of a role alcohol plays in this. You noticed yourself that all your problems occur during or shortly after alcohol consumption. Alcohol is a strong depressant although it affects different people in different ways. From your thread I get the impression that either a) you two spend way too much time over at the neighbor's drinking or b) you don't go that often but every time you do it causes a problem that you feel you need to post about which reinforces the idea that your problems surface around alcohol.
If your W is not in IC, she should be. MC would be a secondary priority for me. So she says she is filing or has filed for D. How long will that take? Do you think she would consider an alternative plan in the interim? For example, instead of moving out of the house, agree to stay in the house but under a very strict set of guidelines. You could negotiate the guidelines but things you might consider are no SF, zero alcohol consumption (for both), no contact with LTA GF, one hour a day (or less) of quiet conversation on any subject.
At one point in reading your thread I got the feeling that your W has been unhappy about things for years and something has triggered her to make her think that the solution is to get out of the M. Has she seen her OB/GYN? Periods every two weeks is inconvenient if nothing else. Your W is asking for D but what she really may be asking for is help. She really does seem to be trying to get your attention. To an extent she has done it but, again, you may be focusing on the wrong things.
If you cannot spend time with W alone, spending time with W and DD is almost as good as long as it is not at the neighbor's house. You say you have trouble dating your W because you don't have anything to talk about. Not unusual in a marriage. Can you do something more physical or romantic or something that interests her rather than just go out to dinner? Maybe you could double date with stph20 and go to a NASCAR race. Hard to talk with all that noise!
My mother had a cat. It was the most unfriendly cat I have ever seen. We never saw hide nor hair of that cat. The cat, for some reason, suffered a very high incidence of UTI's. Whenever that cat had a UTI, it would walk out right in front of where you were sitting and pee on the carpet. Your first reaction is to swat the cat, throw it outside and remind it where the toilet really is and then go try to clean the carpet. Problem is the cat keeps doing it. You finally decide to take the cat to the vet. Vet sees the UTI and tells you your cat was simply trying to get your attention to help it out of a problem it could not solve on its own. It needed help but didn't know how else to ask.
I forgot to mention but definitely wanted to add that you should ignore anything she says about not loving you for years, never having had an orgasm, etc. That is typical of rewritten history. She is recreating her past to help reinforce whatever decision she has made or is making. It means absolutely nothing so don't be distracted by it. I know it hurts a lot. Been there, done that, cried on the T-shirt. Just remember - it isn't real. Someday, if you two get through this, she will look back and tell you she doesn't know how she could have believed those things she said. But that is the least of your worries right now.
Preface: When I read a long thread like this, I don't read much of the replies. I only try to read your posts and the portions of other posts you felt important enough to respond to. That way I can keep a certain continuity. I did go back and read a few of the more interesting replies. For the most part I see you and W both have some fairly serious communication/relationship issues. I also see those have been pretty well expressed to you. The fact that you are in IC is great so I won't try to get into any of that myself for the moment. Just setting priorities.
Random thoughts:
I'm on about October 2nd at the moment. For a long time your W has been the one controlling SF and you resented it. Now she has changed the program and you can ask for SF. You no longer seem to want it. This is your little shot at revenge. You're going to show her! You have her right where she wants you!
I was curious about Prison Break. You seem to have watched it a couple of times at least. It didn't seem to bother you when you watched it on 8/21 but you went ballistic when you watched it on 9/12. Curious.
Your family's relationship with your neighbor seems odd to me. Can't quite put my finger on it. If I were to suspect an A though, he would be suspect #1 on my list. At the very least, they are really good drinkin' buddies. They don't seem to need you along at all (and often you aren't there). You find no unusual phone records or emails. You have her work hours pretty well pinned down. Have you considered clandestine surveillance video? Look, I could spell out all the "curiosities" I find with the neighbor but I don't want to make you paranoid. You can't argue the fact that DD13 is around. In my experience, many 13 YO girls want as little to do with parents as possible so W could have a lot of unaccounted for free time – especially since you run off to the gym every morning, W likes morning SF and DD13 is a late sleeper. Neighbor supports her EN for alcohol. I understand that Dr. Harley recommends not even trying to work on the M until the other addiction is addressed. If she is an alcoholic, there is not much chance of marital recovery until that addiction is taken care of. Just ask ToddAC.
Okay now I am up to Oct 26 and I see that stph20 may actually be your soulmate over the NASCAR issue.
Your W's IC and her have agreed that all the problems are pretty much yours. It could be that her IC is an Oprah junkie. It happens. It could also be that her IC is trying to build trust. I saw this early with our MC. She pretty well sided with WW on every issue and beat me up pretty badly. But later on she shifted all her efforts to WW's problems. I think she wanted WW to feel comfortable in the relationship and think of MC as supportive of her behavior until she was in deep enough to stay. She then kicked me out of MC and went to IC with WW.
Just remember that nothing is what it seems. You (like me) way over-analyze everything. You also try to apply logic where none applies.
I great woman once told me to believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. I think that applies here too.
Events are conspiring against me. First one of my three remaining 9V batteries for my Makita drill bit the dust. This last weekend, I find that battery #2 no longer takes a charge leaving me with only one battery. I happen to be in SACO and I see a Makita 18V drill. Probably twice as good as my 9V drill. It is lust at first sight. Today I check the web and see a BHP451 lithium system. I am in awe. 560 in-lbs of pure raw torque!!! Then I scroll down and see the LXT402 and LXT600 kits!!!
And WW has me on a no-new-tool diet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
Seriously this brings up an issue I have been contemplating for some time. It gets back to EN's. WW forced me to stop using the computer as one of her requirements. I stopped. What I found out is that creating chlidrens' games really made me happy. I loved making things that were creative, smart and could help children do better in school. WW has taken that away. For good or bad, I love my tools. WW has taken that away. So it seems to me that I am having to sacrifice a lot of the things I really truly like to remain married to a WW that I don't really and truly like. And it occurs to me - there is something seriously wrong with this picture.
For the past few days, WW has been working like an olympic athlete. Bedtime comes and she is out in five minutes - hardly even a "good night". Yesterday she ran 5K in the morning, made lunch, said she was sleepy in the PM and would take a nap. She picked me up and I asked if she slept. She said no because she talked on the phone for an hour with a friend and then it was time to pick up the girls. We all do homework and then we help the DDs paint their new bird houses. She puts them to sleep, comes in and says she feels really bad and has to go immediately to bed and wants to go to sleep. I asked why she couldn't sleep in the PM? Why didn't she just tell her friend she was tired and needed a nap? Why, instead, is it okay to check out on me - her husband but not her friends. She spent far more time talking to her friend than with me.
She said she really feels bad every night. I said she seems to feel really good all day long and it is only when she is alone with me that she feels bad so I must be the cause. I say that if she is that unhappy with me, we need to look for alternative arrangements because I'm not particularly happy either. She says she should see a doctor because she is dizzy a lot. I agreed she should. So far she has talked to all her friends about her problems and has decided she is anemic, has an inner ear problem, a thyroid issue and maybe a yeast infection. I say it is great she is getting all these "diagnoses" but she doesn't seem too interested in actually solving the problem. This AM she tells me again she might see a doctor. I say fine but I no longer have any patience for any of this. She says it is not her fault. I say when I married her it was in sickness and in health and it never occurred to me to not support her before but she checked out on the marriage, she invited someone else into our marriage bed so I had the right to check out as well and I wanted out. I guess it was the "taker" in me voicing his concerns. I complained that it seems my only function is to work to make money to provide her a home, food, clothes, golfing, travel etc. but that I hate everything my life has become. Except for the DDs, there is nothing in my life I want any more (I didn't tell her about the Makita drill).
She offered to bring me to work but I told her I didn't want her driving in her weakened condition. She called and said she may try to go see the doctor today. We'll see if she actually follows through with it. She said we should start recording all phone conversations again. I said there was not point since she knew where every public phone was and where to buy phone cards 24/7.
I am not caught up on the thread...I will when I have a chance.....but hope everybody is OK. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
...been busy with friends trying to make up for WS's absence to celebrate my birthday....I am finding that they're overdoing it a bit... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Needless to say, WS used it as an occasion to 'test waters' again to see if I can help him do some 'cake-eating'.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
If any of you are curious, here's the link (sorry don't know how to 'name' links yet!):
The wife and DD13 went out shopping most of the day. I just lounged around the house. I thought to myself, why be vindictive and mean about the situation, so when they got home, I had a long discussion with the with and asked her to take notes. We discussed how we would split things and I think that she was surprised at how well it went.
We both cried several times. I said that I was sorry, but also how I wished that she had been more honest about things. She's been busy opening accounts and such and I hadn't a clue about any of it. I truly feel that she didn't do anything to help our situation. I am truly sorry about that.
We hashed out many points. There are several items to be negotiated, including child support. I said that I wanted us to remain a family in some sense of the word. She asked about help with maintaining the house and I said I would be glad to help. This would not include any financial support for the house. I told her that we should do things together and offered the possibility that we would want to date each other at some point.
I told her that everything we had negotiated was predicated on her removing the PDL to order me out of the house. I said that I would not be as generous if ordered from my own home.
At the end of the discussion, I felt that she had regrets. We talked about me getting copies of all of the legal papers. She said I could pick them up or be served. I said that I was not going to pick them up because I didn't want any papers. She reminded me that I wanted copies. I said I rather not have any papers at all, i.e. that we would not get divorced.
I told her that she would probably become more appreciative of me after I leave. There are not many men out there that would settle for what I settled for. Many are deeply shallow and single minded.
She said that she had changed as a person and that all of the changes that I had made were purely appearance oriented, i.e. that I as a person was still the same. She said she could not aks me to change who I was. I said that I would have done it. Oh well.
As I said, I have a feeling of relief. I need to start looking for a house or condo. I'll have a new houselhold to furnish basically from scratch.
My friend and I went out last night. We had a great time. I had a goal in mind for the evening and exceeded my expectations greatly. Life will go on.
Chris is the neighbor. I told the wife yesterday that after we're divorced, she should start putting DD13 first. I don't think that wife has been doing that as she's been so wrapped up in her own situation. I told her that if I heard anything about 24-hour partying involved DD13 that we'll be back in court real soon now. I told her that I would recommend that she stay away from Chris and that scene and not promote her drinking in front of DD13. That's not the message to be sending.
I have absolutely zero evidence of an affair. I have bluntly asked her and she says there is no one else. I can't see where she sould have the time for it. Regardless, I feel that we're on an irrevocable course. I really don't feel too bad about it. I can leave knowing that I tried and that had she identified for me what she really wanted, I would have met it. There is a sense of closure to the worst year of my life.
Based upon last night's adventure, my new life will be fun.
Seems coincidental that I have read all your posts, concluded that your neighbor is the OM, she wakes up in the night saying "Chris" and now he turns out to be the neighbor. Personally I am convinced he is your guy.
booka, so she still hasn't given you a reason why she wants a divorce? Have you separated at all? It doesn't really sound like she's too sure anymore on divorce. It sounds to me like she put it out there, and expected you to argue it and you didn't and now she's stuck and doesn't know how to change her mind. I guess I should go read your thread...
Spouses aren't making much sense to me today...maybe because my own spouse is confusing me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I'll go read your sitch booka so maybe I'm not so confused! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I thought so initially as well. There are reasons why I think not as well. I may never really know.
On the SF issue, I truly lost all of my desire for her. It was not a question of revenge in my mind. I had a long discussion with my therapist about this. All of my desire has been suppressed. I don't even masturbate often, perhpas once a week. The AD medication may have an effect here as well.
Let's just say that I had some desire last night while I was out.
stph20,
She has basically said that she has changed and I have not. She doesn't want to go on with our marriage in that condition. She has not really given me a chance to prove anything to her other than some physical changes I have made. Too bad so sad.
We have not separated yet. We slept in the same bed last night, although she said doing so made her uncomfortable. I said that I'm not sleeping on the couch and she can' either because of her back condition. I said, why should she be uncomfortable sleeping together as nothing is going on in the bedroom anyway.
The whole separation will be predicated on many factors. I need to find, puchase, close, and furnish a home. This will take cash. I want cash from her for the equity in the house and the contents of the house. I want to walk away and start anew.
I would never marry again for love. I will be protecting my heart for a long time.
BigK, make Pio be nice to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Pio, I know you don't really hate me...but I loooovvvveeee you!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I had forgotten that I said that...but yeah...listen to yourself once in a while, you actually can give good advice from time to time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
How are things in your sitch? How are your DD's reacting to everything?
Booka, I read your thread and I have to agree with Pio (ugh), it sounds like the neighbor is way too close for comfort.
Can you convince your wife to formally separate for a pre-determined amount of time before officially filing? Maybe giving yourselves space is all you both will need for a while. It's worth a try.
I'm a big believer in NOT filing for divorce right away, it's too big of a decision. Bigger, IMO, than getting married. You have been together too long to just let it all go like this, for no apparent reason. Once again, JMHO.
Luna, As Todd could tell you, the fact that French is the language of your interactions with WS explains 99% of all your marital troubles. Nevertheless:
Pio loves very few people and he reacts better to Tough Love. You may want to try a harder approach. Have you considered to give 5 starts to this thread?
Pio, Have you applied or discussed the 15 hrs a week of undivided attention? Your complains are justified and you should be able to reach an agreement with G about the use of the phone and to be sure of reserving quality time for the two of you.
Nam,
Could you post again the link to your new work, pretty please? I'm a little bit more obtuse than usual and can't find the link.
Booka, I agree with Pio. I think your W has an EA and possible PA with the N. Contrary to what you have thought it seems to me that your W has planed this for a long while. If I were you I would snoop deeper. Somehow I don't think she has had IC and I doubt the reason to get on anticonceptives were her hormonal problems. If it had been the case the dr. would have sent her blood exams before and after the pill. She could be hiding assets or the salary rise. What do you think of talking to N's GF? I strongly suggest you to talk to Dr. Harley or at least get the book Surviving an Affair. Don't leave the house. Don't discuss the divorce. Get ready and informed but try to delay all the process. If she get's verbally violent don't hesitate on calling the cops. It would not make your situation worse but would make her realize that she can't stomp all over you without consecuences and would help you in case she tries to remove you from the house.
[color:"blue"] Todd,
How are you feeling? [/color] 2Much, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time.
One more star and I go to the mods. Don't mess with me! BTW, how are your two governments working out for you?
booka,
If Chris really is OM, I bet DD13 knows far more than she is telling you. There is no way your W has been able to keep that from her. W drinks way too much and people are not careful when drunk. In your case, there would not need to be a lot of physical evidence of an A. Close proximity means no phone calls or emails. If they do communicate, it could be something as simple as a window shade in a certain position.
As long as you are still there, I would get up, pretend to go to the gym, park my car around the corner and walk back quietly and observe for a few days. If you are still going to neighbor's with her for drinks, I would pretend to drink a lot (pour it out secretly?) and have to go home and then sneak back and observe. I used to get my MIL really drunk doing tequila shooters with her. What she didn't know was that tea looks pretty much like tequila and I drank tea. She really loved to do shooters but wouldn't do it alone so that was my little present for her. She also loved Cuba Libres. I put my rum in hers and drank straight coke. I've never been able to drink all that much because alcohol puts me pretty much to sleep. I think that is what W is counting on with you.
Have you considered hiring a PI? I think within a week you would know everything you needed to.
Oh, WW did go to the doctor and has been diagnosed with vertigo. Last night went pretty well. We painted bird houses again and I printed photos while she scrapbooked. Then we had a crisis putting DDs to bed. DD1 thinks WW loves DD2 more than her and has decided she is not a very good daughter. She was crying uncontrollably. I had to go talk to her finally and think I was able to convince her that she was a really wonderful daughter and I reminded her of all the things she does so well and how we have to scold DD2 for things she does wrong too. We always ask DD2 why she can't clean her room like DD1, etc. Poor little girl. If it weren't so sad it would be funny - the things they get upset about.
Well as is documented here, I'm a vertigo too yet I still function okay. WW has me worried though. I hope I don't have all those problems when I'm her age!
It sounds like the mention of D has made you decide to throw in the towel. In reading your thread, I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same thing. If you do go that way, you should still pay attention to MB as it will help you in future relationships. You said you would never marry again for love. What would you marry for? If you don't marry for love, I hope you never decide to get married. It just doesn't seem fair to your next W and might easily lead to yet another A for at least one of you.
If your W is an alcoholic, the math is pretty simple. You get in the way of her EN while Chris feeds the need. Since Todd seems to be back, maybe you two can exchange notes on alcoholic wives. I think I remember that there is a thread around specifically dealing with that issue. I can't remember whose thread it is though and I haven't seen it in a while.
BTW, how are your two governments working out for you?
For those who don't know. Mexico had presidential elections last summer. The results were very close for 0.5 or something like that. There is a chance that there was a fraud but the looser, who might be the legal winer, is not a real good option. He now has intalled a parallel goverment that has no power at all. We, as country should push for the respect to the legal state but on the one hand the winner doesn't want to admit his lost and on the other many people really don't want the looser on the power although they didn't vote for the winner.
There are chaos eruptions and some focalized violence. My very calm street had one car in fire and other vandalized in one week. Things seem calm for a while.
There is a rumor that could became in selfulfilled* profecy that every 100 years 1810, 1910, Mexico solves it's diferences with blood. I don't believe things with get there but may get closer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Booka,
We may seem too direct. It's for economy purpouses. I encourage you to consult with the experts, aka The Harley's. Some more 'don't' while you get the book Surviving an Affair.
Don't do 'relationship talk'. Don't lecture her. Don't tell her she's inmoral. She's but that won't get her back to you. Instead you asure her that you can have a great marriage with love and romance. Don't insist too much on it, though. Don't over expose. Don't warn her that you may expose her. You may want to play a card at this stage. Confront N, tell him that you know that he and your W have contact during the day and that you want him to back off so you and your W can solve your problems. If you word it right you may get more info than you expect. Something like, 'I know my wife has a crush on you...' or something like that.
Cut N of your social circle and protect your daughter from him. When you refuse to go along with the divorce she's going to get very angry. Be ready and don't let her anger provoque yours.
You may feel tempted to give her a smooth divorce but if she's a WW she won't play fair with you. Get ready.
Todd, glad you are recovered from the flu. Booka, sorry bout your sitch. Pio, sounds like you are a bit Sybil-like these days...I can relate. Hello BK, Nams, Kiwi, Stph, Larousse...Beth, you are sounding well considering...keep up the good work.
WH moved out today after all kinds of dramatic events this past week. Basically he was willing to work on M and took some drastic measures...quit job...ceased all contact with OWs (supposedly) etc but ceasing contact caused some fall out with OWs which I caught a piece of...pretty interesting since what one particular OW had to say could have come out of my mouth as she feels much like me...oooopps only difference he is married to me...anyway despite this big turn of events I am unable to trust and even a trip out for 1 hour causes me doubt, disbelief etc and when I share this with WH it only makes sitch worse thus I requested we part ways so I don't have to deal with worry/wonder where he is and who he is with. Says he really didn't want to do it and was extremely emotional about it but he's gone...has called twice to talk to kids.
I feel nothing at this point since the past week has been horrific. Not sure how I'll feel later but I'm exhausted and am about to hit the sack. My kids seem to understand and are not at all like I had thought they would be...we'll see...
Okay that's it. I'm completely done. WW finally broke this camel's back last night! She has sold DD1's soul to the Devil! AND ALL WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION!!! I am simply livid! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Yes she did it - she put DD1 in french classes!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> WW is history!!! DD1 got up this morning and is wearing a beret AND SMOKING A GAULOISE CIGARETTE!!!
I still remember just over a year ago when I sent WW packing to OM's house after I heard the phone recording. She left at night after DDs had gone to sleep. The next morning was really hard on the three of us but we got through it. I still remember how surprised I was that I felt so little. It was like being in a dream. I guess the reality had not quite hit home yet. If I knew what the term "fugue state" meant, that might have been it.
Okay that's it. I'm completely done. WW finally broke this camel's back last night! She has sold DD1's soul to the Devil! AND ALL WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION!!! I am simply livid! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Yes she did it - she put DD1 in french classes!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> WW is history!!! DD1 got up this morning and is wearing a beret AND SMOKING A GAULOISE CIGARETTE!!!
Pio,
That is low!!!!!! First infidelity and now this???? At least this will take your mind off her infidelity for a long while.
Your sitch reminds me of a good friend of mine who happens to be a CE. He once told me that he wears the pants in his family. He said that he makes the big decisions and his wife makes all the minor decisions. By way of example, he said that he decides national defense, the federal budget, Fed reserve monetary policy and all she does is decide what house to buy, what school to send their kids to, where they go on vacation, etc.
He once told me that he wears the pants in his family.
That reminds me of the young newlywed couple on the first night of their honeymoon. They got undressed and got in to bed and W starts to kiss the H and he says "Wait. Go over there and put on my pants." She asks "What?". He repeats his request. This guy is huge - built like a linebacker. So the diminuitive petite little woman gets out of bed and goes and picks up his pants and puts them on. The are so big and long and she is so tiny that the waste actually covers her chest. She is a little afraid and trembling. H says "okay come on back to bed". She gets in bed and he says "that's just to remind you who wears the pants in the family" and he tries to kiss her.
She says "wait". He stops. She says "go over and put on my panties". He replies "WHAT?" She says "You heard me - go put on my panties". Somewhat perplexed H gets out of bed and goes over and picks up her panties and begins to try to put them on. He pulls and pulls but he is so big and they are so small that he can't get them up past his knees. He is exhausted from trying and says "I can't get into these!" to which she replies "and you aren't going to either with THAT attitude!". She turns off the light and goes to sleep.
Don't talk divorce Do contact the Harleys Do refuse to cooperate in divorce talk in any way Do protect your finances Don't give WS an inch or a cent to continue her affair.
If W really is involved with Chris, you have been the primary enabler. Since Chris is a player and single father, your exposure choices are very limited. If W is also an alcoholic, this A will be very hard to bust up. Do you think W views Chris as a better father to your DD than you? I know your relationship with DD was one of her issues and she seems to have bonded so closely with his kids. I was just wondering what your opinion of his relationship with your DD is like. Don't make this easy for your W. Think about your DD.
I'm sorry but I just can't shake this mental image of OW being devastated and coming over to your house to cry on your shoulder about her loss - and you are consoling her! You are just way too nice.
What is your plan now? Are you going to implement a full Plan B? The way I felt when I packed gemela off to Mexico is that I was finally taking charge of myself again. I was the captain of my ship. It was a great feeling. And do you know what? I miss it.
Maybe it is as simple as that. Gemela needs to bring some sort of value added to make me be okay with giving up the helm and no longer steering my own course. I do think she is trying.
Pio - I have a question for you and I'm not being antagonistic. Just curious.
You have given Suzet a hard time over non=exposure to OMW. Yet you extend friendliness and civility to Kiwi. Jen and her husband have never exposed to OMW. No difference IMO. Why the 'attitude' to Suzet? It seems harsh.
I said many things too her over the weekend, some productive and some non-productive. We negotiated many, many things. We are trying to be very friendly about this and we have each been generous in our approach. I want to move out ASAP, but need her to buy out my equity.
DD13 and I wnet out and lokked at a house yesterday afternnon and it was good for me to do so. Now I have another focus which is helping quite a bit. I would be moving about 25-miles from our current location but would be much closer to work.
I slept poorly last night with thoughts racing through my head. STBXW said that she slept poorly also. I ran out of Lunesta and am having an insurance issue getting it refilled. I will call the shrink about this today. I will call the realtor about seeing the inside of the new house. I've got a lot of things to do and it's really a poor time of year to have to do this.
I feel physically and emotionally like crap. I did work-out today very, very hard. It helps.
Thanks for everyone's input over the course of this thread. I probably let some people down here and I'm sorry for that. I did what I was equipped to do. I did end up with some positive changes for myself.
I know that I have things to look forward to after our marriage is over.
STBXW has already filed. She's been quite busy. I should be served today.
We have vowed to be friendly and all procedural items are going very well. I'm still at home. We have had many talks with no arguments since Saturday morning. I'm encouraged by what we were able to accomplish this weekend after the bomb was dropped.
I'm done with this marriage. All I want is out of it. Any recovery efforts would have to be after divorce and after I heal. We actually discussed quite a few post-divorce items.
Where ever I move, it will be a distance away from the whole current scene. I need the space. I have a strong preference for the area where I looked at the house. It was a perfect man's pad. It would be perfect for me. I think that I can afford it.
Thanks for all of you advice. I am emotionally drained by this weekend's and previous events. I cried quite a bit yesterday. I only stopped when I went to look at the house. I need a purpose and have found one. I don't love my wife any more. She's put me through too much. I need the time and space.
My issue on that thread was that Suzet is throwing a "see I told you so" regarding one specific point although she never did explain the exact context to Dr. H of why she asked the question. I also feel she is cherry picking which MB principles she chooses to follow and which she doesn't. I simply don't understand why she even started the thread. She absolutely refuses to consider extreme measures but refuses exposure as well. I won't do the mandatory one but get off my case for not doing the optional one. Her follow up email to Dr. H was posed in such a way as to avoid him having to tell her what she did not want to hear.
I have not considered Suzet as a FWW. I still think of her as a WW. JMO but there it is. Kiwi doesn't work with OM. Although they haven't left the country, there is minimal chance of contact. If you recall I was pretty hard on Kiwi during her bar visit incidents.
I don't think most of my posts have been directed specifically at Suzet.
I am no Saint...I was comforting no one...it was all in print and I got a hold of it...thanks to you and your history I was smart enough this time to make copies which was good since WH opened, glanced and shredded without even reading.
Larousse, WH will not communicate a plan which is part of problem...he does his own thing which is why when he quit his job and NC with all OW I had no idea and thought that he was planning to make all these changes for some OW and not me. WH insists he is being totally honest now...disclosed some other info unrelated to infidelity. Bad thing is at this point I don't believe anything or trust anything. We actually had a long talk about all of this which is what resulted in me telling him it would be best for him to move out. I'm all messed up emotionally and have used almost every ounce of objectivity and control in dealing with these past 9 months. I think the hardest part would be ahead if he is truly willing to commit. He will not verbally commit to marriage or divorce which was the deal breaker. He says if he promises to try and work and fails then he will be a liar again. Other times he says he just doesn't know what he wants. I have no idea how to get from zero trust to a shred of trust if I don't have some plan for accountability. Any attempt to discuss this results in a discussion that goes like this..."you want me to cut anything and everything out of my life and be totally dependent on you and then you will be happy". No, I want you to be independent, responsible, accountable and interdependent. HHHHMMMMMM.
The whole moving out thing is not going to work as it is now b/c he keeps calling and coming by to pick things up. Looks devastated and is trying to joke and break the ice...even trying for SF which I stated would only happen if we had some type of commitment to recover and a plan. He will be watching kids on and off during the week so I think this is pretty much a waste unless it becomes a real plan B...
I have some updates over at my thread on ENs. I still have no concrete evidence of an affair and I don't want to invest any time snooping around. I'm tired of the whole scene. I just don't care anymore. Your cajoling will not change my mind.
STBXW said some time ago under extreme duress of her own creation that sh would never be what I wanted her to be and vice versa for me. She wants something different, and so do I. I don't want to go through the rest of my life with zero affection and SF. I feel that I have already wasted years of my life. I can't let her invalidate me as a person any longer, it's just not healthy for me anymore.
I had a long phone conversation that ended with me in tears. I will post a copy of an email I sent that explains the topic of our conversation.
Here's the email (the attachment was a PDF of our 401K rules):
Read the attached, starting a page-17. I can only get a 5-year loan for $50,000 from the 401K until I retire. The loan is supposed to be at market rates, which would make it a larger payment than a 15-year or 30-year conventional note. Therefore, the 401K may be useless to me.
Think alternately of this. Say our house appraises for $180,000.00 (I think it will go for more). Subtract $30,000.00 outstanding debt and you have $150,000.00 in equity, not including contents. Divide $150,000.00 in half and you get $75,000.00. You would then refinance for $105,000.00 and pay me the $75,000.00. This would not include contents, which would need to be figured into this.
Say I purchase that house that I like for $180,000.00 (maybe less, it's a buyer's market). Without any cash from you, I take on a note for the full amount on a house that might be less valuable than our current house, while you have what is in effect a $30,000.00 note. Does that seem fair? Plus, I have very limited cash after legal fees to furnish a house.
So, I get to keep my retirement to be used after 3-years to pay down a $180,00.00 note, while you could pay down the $30,000.00 in a relatively short time (less than 5-years?). So, I won't be retiring and will be paying a 15 to 30-year note and you'll be debt-free for our current house. Does that seem fair?
Let's throw around a number. Suppose you gave m $85,000.00 for equity and contents. That means you take on a $115,000.00 note. I take $25,000.00 to furnish the house. I need to furnish for Kate as well as myself. That’s would leave me with $60,000.00 to be used as a down payment. Suppose again that I pay $180,000.00 for the house and finance $120,000.00 of it, using the $60,000.00 as a down payment. Then I can avoid mortgage insurance. I still have $5000.00 more in debt than you do. Anything else you want to do with our current house is your expense. Does this seem to you to be tilted in my favor somehow?
I actually think that the $85,000.00 is a very reasonable amount.
And in the example where I used the $85,000.00 payout, I would have $60,000.00 in equity and you would have at least $65,000.00 in equity. I find that to be fair.
The point of the email is that I don't want to hit the street essentially penniless for something that I didn't want to ahppen, i.e. the divorce. Prior to her announcing she had filed, I had hope and would have made some sacrifices. I had already made sacrifices. Now I want a fair deal. I initially asked for $100,000.00 because I didn't want to low-ball it.
Does $85,00.00 seem fair to you for having your life torn apart?
My advice to you in this particular case is to not throw out your best offer up front. If lawyers get involved (and they will), your position could easily deteriorate. I don't disagree about the house equity but I wouldn't lay the rest of your cards on the table. She doesn't need to know what you are planning to do, what mortgage rate you will get, where you plan to buy a house, etc. It is totally irrelevant.
What this looks like is a STBXH trying to be totally pragmatic in a completely irrational situation. I understand your POV. I can promise you it will hurt you. You have made up your mind to D. It is already a done deal and all you are waiting for is to sign the papers. Problem is it doesn't work that way. You need to be very secretive about your plans until the ink is dry.
Pio, how do you get through the day-to-day life with G when you don't want her to be there? I'm finding I don't really want WH to be here and I'm destroying what's left of us by this feeling.
I'm also very confused. He says he wants to work on the M, he acts (somewhat) like he wants to work on the M, but he hasn't put his ring back on, and he hasn't moved all of his stuff back in and when I asked him where such and such is, he replied, "at home" (his mom's). I said I thought this was your home, but he didn't hear me, or ignored me.
he acts (somewhat) like he wants to work on the M...
Quote
but he hasn't put his ring back on...
Quote
and he hasn't moved all of his stuff back in...
Quote
and when I asked him where such and such is, he replied, "at home" (his mom's)...
Quote
I said I thought this was your home, but he didn't hear me, or ignored me.
stef,
If you were to do something novel like, oh let's say distinguish between his words and actions and then only judge his progress by his actions, what conclusion do you reach?
Well, if I compared the 2, I would probably say he wants to work on the M. The only action that he hasn't taken to lead me to think otherwise is the wedding ring.
I wish I had that answer. I think you had the key when you reminded me that we made a vow to our spouses that we would stand by them no matter what. But the other factor is that you have just said that you are destroying what is left by a feeling.
We, as BS's, begin this quest by trying to prove to WS that love is not a feeling - it is a commitment. We fight that good fight and, in some cases, win. Then we now have what it is we were struggling for and the adrenaline is gone. I fell into something like PTSD (I think). Then I started visiting my feelings. I didn't feel like I wanted the M. I didn't feel good about G being here, etc. So I became guilty of the same behavior that started G on her A - I started following my heart. But I think I believe this is wrong because otherwise I would have to accept G's A as a valid life choice - which it was not.
In short, we are trapped by our own logic. Sauce for the goose and all that. I had posted a long time ago that my greatest fear was that I might reach the point where G wanted the M and I didn't but I would be obligated to it. I think I got to that point. I have become very detached from M. Every day I think I might get home from work and find her bags packed by the front door and I am actually happy in that thought. But it isn't that easy.
For G's part, she is doing everything and anything to prove to me that she wants this M. I have whacked her pretty good (emotionally) a couple of times and she stands right up and takes it. That is part of what convinces me this is what she really wants.
There was something about G I loved once. I can find it again with time. I do think she is a good person. What I feel for her right now is pretty irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. I'm the only one that matters to - not her - not my children.
I have been made to suffer a lot by the A. You would think that ending the A would make that go away. It doesn't. So my problems are not quite over. I put up with a lot to get this far. Should I stop because I don't feel like it?
I'll get back to my favorite running analogies. I was once in a 5K race I hadn't trained for for many months. I could run 5K without any problem but I couldn't run it fast. I started the race at a good pace and decided I could always slow down. The race was marked of in kilometers instead of quarter miles so a) you have fewer points of reference b) you have to go much farther without a time check and c) I had never done the math in kilometers and I cannot add 2 plus 2 while running. Never been able to.
So I was confused, in doubt, in pain, etc. but I THOUGHT I was doing good from my confused mental math so kept pushing. I got to the 4K mark and new I could turn in a great time if I could just keep going. That last 1K was the absolute worst. I wanted to give up. I told myself there was nothing wrong with just stopping right there. Who cared if I finished the race. I didn't owe it to anybody. But I kept running. I turned in the best 5K time I had ever run and won the race in my category. I also passed out at the finish line.
Actually forget that analogy. I thought it was relevant but I see now that it has no bearing on anything.
You are very hurt by all this. In the beginning you put all that aside in your fight to save your M. Once that fight is over, you have a lot of time and you start to dwell on those things you denied yourself for so long (in my case over a year). It isn't pretty. But remember there was a reason you started on this journey. Rely on that. Don't rely on how you feel on that journey. Just remember that at one time you believed there was a goal out there worthy of trying to achieve. And run in the faith that you weren't wrong.
Well, if I compared the 2, I would probably say he wants to work on the M. The only action that he hasn't taken to lead me to think otherwise is the wedding ring.
I will add that you are probably just seeing the beginning of the fog lifting. You are a long way (IMO) from recovery. You still need to be patient and you still need to listen to BigK.
I have no opinion as to whether your offer is fair and equitable or not and I don't care. My only point is that you cannot sharpen your pencil and come up with what you think is the best for both of you and expect her to just say "yes". I am betting she won't. Lawyers also don't trust people and especially divorcing people. If you make a great offer, the lawyer wants to know what you are hiding.
You said your W works. What kind of retirement benefits will she get from her company? My guess is that her lawyer is not going to be too excited about leaving you with 100% of your 401K and especially if she has no retirement from her own company. I don't think she will qualify for SS benefits from your account. Since you have already been served D papers, you may be somewhat limited on what you can do at this moment.
I think if you lay out a perfect plan for the easiest way out of the M for both of you, she and her lawyer will muck it up. Why does she need to know what kind of house you intend to buy, where and what your mortgage will be? It is totally irrelevant to your situation and information that she can only use against you. Divorces are ugly things. They tend to bring out the worst in people. Make all your plans. Just don't tell W about them.
I guess in simple terms, if you decide you are no longer interested in the M because you don't feel it is what you want, you are effectively applying a double standard.
You are saying to WH that it wasn't okay for him to abandon the M because he felt like it but it is okay for you to do it. Somehow doesn't seem fair does it?
Kiwi and Rob did originally expose to OM'sW. Rob has tried to contact her again after the renewal of the affair this year. In short, totally different to Suzer_ in every way.
While that may be technically correct, I'm not sure it is relevant to TT's question directed at me. If she has a criticism of my posts, I think I need to answer them on their own merits (assuming I can). I think you should let TT's questions stand as they are regardless of whether the situations are similar or not.
BigK is correct in his summation of the situation as regards me.
Pio, I don't know if you're aware that TT and I are very good friends - we IM each other a lot. That doesn't make any difference to what TT asked though.
All I care about right now is seeing my darling daughter again. She emailed today to say they were going to the Knicks game in NY for their final night in NY.
Well, Pio is the winner of the Let's Make Steph Cry game!
You have no idea how much your post touched me...and yes, it did make me cry. I've printed it out for future reference and strength. I'm going to need it.
WH told me tonight that he was still confused about what he wanted.
I'm afraid Plan B will have to go into action this weekend, assuming I can find somewhere to go. I just can't do this anymore. I can't be afraid that he's going to get mad at me every time I freak out that he's going to see her, and I can't be afraid that every time I have a bad day and get a little crabby that he's going to regret his decision for coming home. It's not fair to me, none of this is fair to me and I can't do it anymore. I thought I was strong enough to handle this, knowing that he was going to be seeing her at work, but trusting that he was committed enough to our M to get over her. But I'm not this strong. I thought I was numb, but it hurts too much.
I don't think Plan B is going to work for me. He says he doesn't want me to not love him anymore, so I can only assume that he wants to cake-eat still. I think if I move out, it will be permanant. I don't know what else to do. We haven't learned anything while he was gone. I've learned a lot, but he hasn't and neither of us have learned how to be married to each other. Maybe it's just better if I go now and don't look back.
Thanks for replying Pio.I don't know all Suzet's history but I know it must be a real worry having a court case hanging over your husband's head, going through infertility treatment and being the breadwinner of the family in a depressed economy.
TT - I just noticed your location is LaLa Land. We should have coffee. Apparently I'm there too. LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I am in total agreement. Suzet as a tremendous amount of external pressure at the moment and all out of her control. All of those things could make her even more vulnerable to an A. That is why anything and everything to avoid contact with OM in this case is so extremely important. Didn't Suzet even make that observation herself when the emails exchanged recently? I'm not completely sure about that so don't quote me but I thought she had made a comment that all of the stress was contributory.
OM is the wild card. He can do anything he wants. If he begins another round of emails, it will just be that much harder on Suzet. Regardless, her decision is made so any discussion is moot. I hope OM leaves her alone. She doesn't need more problems.
Without wanting to offend but I don't know whether it is Suzet or H that has the problem with fertility. If it is H, that puts even more strain on the M IMO. I don't know Suzet but I can imagine a woman wanting to get pregnant, biological clock ticking away, H unable and OM who she has feelings for who is ready and willing. Keep in mind I am not talking about Suzet. I am talking about a generic woman in a situation that might not even apply in Suzet's case. I am thinking more along the lines of that old Heart song. What was the name? I'm sure Todd knows it.
I got on here this morning, read all the posts since my last only to find I'd been ignored. Well! So I go looking for my post & it's not there! WELL!!! How does that work?
Not like it was filled with witty & insightful comments but I did manage to say hi to everyone & address lots of individuals.
Here's the short version:
Todd, very happy to see you're feeling better. Did you find out where that chunk of money went?
Pio, sounds like you're near the top of the roller coaster, most of you anyway.
Kiwi, how nice to know you'll be seeing your DD soon.
{{{{stph}}}}
{{{{booka}}}}
To work so hard without the other person fully on board is draining & kills love.
I got on here this morning, read all the posts since my last only to find I'd been ignored. Well! So I go looking for my post & it's not there! WELL!!! How does that work?
It is well known on MB that if a post is ignored by enough people, it will disappear.
At this point, I don't have a choice in the divorce, so the only positive I can see it to get through it with a minimum of damage. You may appreciate my perspective at some point in your future. I'll state this again so it is abundantly clear; this divorce is not my choice and not what I want. It will happen regardless of how I feel about it. I'm trying to put a positive spin on this after crying for the last 24-hours. I'm trying to paint a good image for what I want in the future. I hope that you don't end up at this point, but I'll bet that you will. I didn't think it woul ever happen to me.
So, on to the news. We spent quite a bit of time yesterday negotiating and arguing over our divorce settlement. I have posted detail over at TKO on GQII. I briefly saw my therapist last night and then went home. I was a complete emotional wreck and thought that I would pass-out at one point. After another crying jag, I settled down and we talked. We had several sticking points and we went over them discussing what we wanted. The result was that I keep my retirement and 401K and I will not pay legal fees and will not pay child support. She gets the house and assumes all debt for her car and the house and assumes all household bills and expenses. I agreed to move out of the house and packed up my car last night. I stayed at home last night for what may be the last time. An old friend who is a real friend will take me in until I can arrange some things. I will move into his house tonight.
I had a very bad morning and cried a lot. It was difficult to drive and to make it to work, yet here I am. I screwed up the days and my therapist appointment is actually tonight, which will be handy.
This has been a tough week. It was tough to leave my house. I'm giving up about $150,000.00 in equity, not including contents. I will be taking a lot of my personal possesions but will also leave the house basically as it is.
I will be starting over from scratch. I have a house in mind and will need to finance the entire amount. I will need to furnish it on what may be a limited budget. I have a lot of challenges ahead of me. This is not an easy course and it is not fun. I will need time to heal before I become the "Fun Guy".
What ended up happening really revolved around my retirement. I have a traditional retirement plan and a 401K. STBXW has a 401K. Our 401Ks have about equal balances. The cash-out value of my retirement was about $230,000.00, ut that's not the real value of the plan. I basically have 3-years to o until retirement because I started at this company when I was a baby. I will be 50 at retirement time. At my retirement time, the cash-out value then will be nearly $1,000,000.00. If she took half now, I would end up with far less than half of the $1,000,000.00 due to the nature it acrues.
So the whol deal basically came down to whether or not I could keep the retirement. She gave me a vague counter-offer to my $85,000.00 proposal, and I said to her that I would give her the best deal she woul ever get and I did. We shook on it and committed to it. There will be a few codicils, but know that involve money. She said the laywer would probably try to talk her out it it, but he works for her and she wants our deal. We both felt immediately relieved.
I was really broken up this morning. We've lived together in that house for 20-years. I poured a lot of time and energy into that house. I asked the STBXW for a final hug. She said that would not be our last. I don't know what she means by that.
Anyway, we agreed that I would visit Saturday afternoon to take care of anything I've forgotten, etc. She also said something about dinner together next week. I feel that we both want to be good friends. I think that it is very possible for us to do so. I don't want to read anything else into the future with STBXW, but I have explicitly left the door open for her. I asked her to define the pace.
Thanks for all of your support and I hope none of you end up where I've been.
There still some action on my thread over at ENs. I am feeling better this morning and have had some fruitful email conversations with the wife. Life goes on.
stph20... please don't shoot the messenger...but you are living with a WS....nothing to understand...and I think Pio is being very insightful and hope it helps...
Quote
I thought I was numb, but it hurts too much.
(((((((((((((stph20))))))))))))))
I am soooo sorry stph20....MANY here have lived the hurt....it can be unbearable....keep telling yourself that it will get better.... 'wait it out' before making any major decision...when you do....why would you leave rather than WS going back to his mom? Is you 'leaving' what you really want?
(((((((((((2much)))))))))))
Booka...sorry to hear about the turn of events in your situation...
(((((((((((((Booka)))))))))))))))))
Quote
HAPPY BIRTHDAY Luna! Sorry it's belated.
I had very good results from my latest firing. I'll post some pics. soonish
Hi Nams...thanks for the wishes....I see..being a busy bee! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Quote:
Quote
Aw, Todd & Pio, you two are cute!
Actually, Bambi is cute.
Sorry, Nams...I will have to side with Todd on this one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Big hug to everybody else.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Okay, I have way too much time on my hands. I have been thinking about the Earth's orbit around the Sun. On average, it takes 365 days for the Earth to complete its orbit. Since Einstein taught us the relationship between velocity, time and mass, wouldn't it be neat if we could slow time? Let's say we could cut it in half for discussion purposes.
Our "aging" is defined by years. If we could devise a way to cause the Earth's orbit to take twice as long, by moving the Earth twice as far from the Sun as it now is, it would then take 730 days for the Earth's orbit around the Sun. That means, Ladies and Gentlemen, as soon as we accomplish this, you would be half the age you are now. People would live to be >150 on average. Long livers would see >200! Moreover, to those who believe in or who are otherwise concerned about global warming, this solution would ease climate change problems. Now I know what you are thinking: (i) how in the world Todd, do we affect the Earth's orbit to double itself? and (ii) err, hey Todd, wouldn't it get very, very cold?
Here are my solutions: Mount giant, and I mean giant, rocket engines at the poles. File them simultaneously and gradually. We do not want sudden starts because the centrifugal force could sling folks off the face of the Earth. We would also need to be careful so that we did not affect the Earth's rotation. Well, that assumes that we still would desire 24 hour days. Hmm...that gives me a great idea. I will discuss later. Anyway, think of the effect on the Earth like a tennis ball with top spin. It stands to reason that as we move farther away from the Sun, things will get very cold. So, if it is true that burning fossil fuels, cow belching, Freon, natural gas, etc, all we need is to bring back Freon, quit eating beef so that the supply of cows will grow, require maximum 10 MPG in new cars, replace double pane windows with single pane, replace efficient furnaces with inefficient ones – well you get the idea. According to Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity, as velocity increases, mass decreases and time slows. That means we would be younger and loose weight at the same time!! Anyone interested in joining the movement?
The above reference to 24 hour days alludes to my frustration with time zones. I am vehemently against them. It is patently unfair for the early time zones to see “Desperate Housewives” before the US. I mean the US produces that work of art and we have to wait in line to see each episode? I don’t think so. Here is my solution: As we fire the engines, to relocate the Earth’s orbit, simultaneously fire engines mounted at the Equator and speed the rotation of the Earth. Indeed, speed it so much that a rotation of the Earth only takes one hour. That simply means in the course of one hour, you would have what we now call a day. Since each existing time zone would cycle through their shortened day in one hour, no need to time zones. You also would not need as much sleep. Well, at least you would not get as much sleep. The work day would be a mere 20 minutes. Any takers?
[color:"orange"] I thougt the whole [color:"pink"] pink[/color] shorts fashion was their attempt to show how cute they could be. [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Thanks, luna, it has been a truly crappy last two days. I only fear it will get worse rather thn better.
Todd, my man. You would need to mount the giant, giant rocket engines geosynchronously over the equator to shove the earth into an orbit that is twice as large. Even that wouldn't be completely proper as the earth is tilted 23 degrees or so. Would yet net any effect by having the rockets at the poles? Would they be firing simultaneously, or would you use one for acceleration and one for decceleration? If you used the pole rockets, you would remove the earth form its eliptical plane and perhaps way father away from the sun than simply doubling the size of the orbit within the eliptical plane. The velocity of the orbit would remain the same in our scenario, therefore negating any Einsteinian losses.
I read an article once that compared the current weather with the weather that would occur if the earth has a truly circular orbit rather than an eliptical orbit. As I recall, the climate change was very little from what it is now.
Doubling the size fo the elipse of the earth's orbit would not take us out nrealy as far as Mars is. Mars' climate is really not that extreme. Equatorial temperatures on Mercury can reach 450°C and though signatures of ice craters have been detected at high latitudes with temperatures reaching below -184°C. There are days on Mercury that would actually be comfortable for humans termperature-wise if it had a significant atmosphere.
Sadly our ability to make our social problems worse is endless.
Kiwi, 7 months? You may even get a grandaughter or grandson from the trip. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
2Much,
you may want to try to 'sell' him some MB concepts as the Policy of Undivaded Attention and Radical Honesty. I understand your need for a clear declaration of compromise for marriage or divorce but you may want to try something like half a year. Half a year of making you his only entreteinment companion. No XOW's, no female close friends. My unprofessional and unmarried impression is that is highly unusual that someone with his past behavior has such a suden change of mind. Could it be that he touched bottom? If it's the case he would need your help to relinke the romantic feelings in the marriage and totally throw himself in the family life. Good luck.
Nams,
The last time XBF and I talked I had the impression he was under the influence of something. I asked him not to call me again. Some days later he called me or so I think. I heard his voice 'fighting' with a woman for the phone. Lots of 'f' word and then click. This weekend he send a e-mail full of self pity. He has problems with a year finalcial support he had gotten from a fundation. He hasn't delivered a written inform and pics. He tried to imply that I was causing him stress and making him incapable of working by not talking to him. One month was enough for him to get in lots of financial trouble and to get me in trouble too. I answered him with a state of 'our' financial issues and asked him to repay me the money he had taken from my debit card. It was the money to pay my car credit and an extra year payment of it. He had also used the money I was going to spend on a fly ticket for me. He had convinced me or I let myself to be convinced that it was best to buy three cheaper tickets for him than one for me. He only bought one. In theory he has the money for two more flight tickets.
I asked him to respect my position to not to talk to him and so far he hasn't called.
I feel a little sad and hurt. I was very trusting with him. In a twisted way it's good that he shows this side of him. We never had economical issues before. Now his avoidance of what he did and the attempts to blame me for my lack of support to his work, make him less appealing to my eyes.
When someone takes adavantage of other one in Mexico, we say: Me llevó al baile. He-she, took me to the ball. I feel like he took me to the ball and there was not my favorite music.
Since Einstein taught us the relationship between velocity, time and mass, wouldn't it be neat if we could slow time?
I have a much cheaper and albeit far more practical solution. If you want to slow time, just make everyone on earth read your posts. They seem like an eternity. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Your equatorial spin idea reminds me way too much of the "yellow peril". China would definitely veto the idea from the bad memories from THAT event.
Since Einstein taught us the relationship between velocity, time and mass, wouldn't it be neat if we could slow time?
I have a much cheaper and albeit far more practical solution. If you want to slow time, just make everyone on earth read your posts. They seem like an eternity. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I get it. However, my proposal would actually slow time. We would age half as quickly. Although my diatribes could have the effect of slowing time, everyone would still age as the current rate. This was a giving gesture to humanity and all you can do is take a cheap shot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Your equatorial spin idea reminds me way too much of the "yellow peril". China would definitely veto the idea from the bad memories from THAT event.
Just to be clear, I would not seek China's input on this idea. Just like I would not have gone to the United Nations (which BTW, Donovan in his song "Riki Tiki Tavi" declared that the United Nations isn't really organized; I used a different term: impotent) on Iraq, Iran or NK or in the future, Syria, Cuba and Venezuela.
I also see a significant problem with your one hour day. The whole basis for your idea is so that the USA cannot be cheated out of its God-given right to watch Desperate Housewives first (which I totally agree with BTW). The problem is far worse than you imagine. I get Desperate Housewives via satellite. I understand that DH is currently in season 3 in the USA but we are just now seeing the 4th episode of season 1. Since the signal travels from Hollywood to the satellites at the speed of light and is reflected and bounced back to my satellite dish at the same velocity, for this (more or less) two year delay to occur, the satellites must be in geosynchronous orbits located approximately one light-year from earth. My solution has been to download them from iTunes so I can get them almost immediately. I guess iTunes uses satellites in lower orbits or else subsea fiber optic cables. Dunno and don't care.
The result of my iTunes downloads, however, is that I can clearly see that an episode of DH lasts about 43 minutes and 57 seconds. [Fortunately iTunes leaves out the commercials]. So what this means is that if you have a one hour day and a 20 minute work day, there would not be enough time left over to watch DH after work. The only viable solution I can think of is that the USA would have to adopt the french working hours which would be reduced to a mere 11 minutes per day if everything is ratioed correctly. This would even leave time left over for SF after DH is over and maybe even a minute or two for sleep.
Problem I still haven't figured out though is when we would have time to take baths. Once again, maybe the french already have the solution for that too. Just don't take a bath!
Thanks for the link to the potter in N.C. Todd. No, I've not heard of him but N.C. is full of potters. Tell you what though, I'd LOVE to get the prices he charges for his work. Maybe another few years & I will. He has a fabulous red glaze. Red is one of the hardest colors to get.
Your slowing time idea? You did it just so you & Pio & booka could talk numbers didn't you? Pio got to talk about optic cables so he's happy.
Thank you stph.
So, how's the elections coming along? Any results? I've got to check it out, see if there have been any upsets.
The result of my iTunes downloads, however, is that I can clearly see that an episode of DH lasts about 43 minutes and 57 seconds. [Fortunately iTunes leaves out the commercials]. So what this means is that if you have a one hour day and a 20 minute work day, there would not be enough time left over to watch DH after work.
But remember, under the new system, everything would be subject to shrinkage. Everything. Instead of 43'-53", it would be 1/24th of that or less than two minutes. Relativity is very difficult to understand.
Quote
The only viable solution I can think of is that the USA would have to adopt the french working hours which would be reduced to a mere 11 minutes per day if everything is ratioed correctly.
And when you take August off, it would only be 30 hours long.
Quote
This would even leave time left over for SF after DH is over and maybe even a minute or two for sleep.
I previously posted the math for this: 1/24 * 120 = 5 minutes.
Quote
Problem I still haven't figured out though is when we would have time to take baths. Once again, maybe the french already have the solution for that too.
If the average bath is 12 minutes, in the New World Order, it would only be 30 second. Still wouldn't help the French however.
I read an article in a local magazine today which discussed potters in Georgia and in the Southeast. I had never thought about it, but we sit on a huge supply of clay here so it is no surprise that potters would flourish in this area. A potter's museum just opened in North Georgia and the name Lanier Meadors was mentioned. Apparently he was the quite the potter turning out works that bore interesting faces. I could find nothing about him on the web except the site I linked for you and it is a brief mention. Oh yeah, the original potters in this areas were Indians. Some nice work has been found and are displayed in the museum.
Hams? Since you're talking about pottery I'll run with it. Wait, maybe there has already been shrinkage....Interestingly there is shrinkage in pottery.
Have you heard of the Mad Potter of Biloxi (sp)? Can't think of his name but he had a zillion kids & made millions of pots that didn't sell. He stored them & years after he died they sold. His family did get some money from his work after all. He made interesting pots (irregular shapes, the clay doing what clay will do in some cases) with very colorful glazes which at the time weren't fashionable. He cultivated his image as a mad potter by looking sort of outlandish, had a crazy moustache.
Larousse, I'm sorry to hear xbf turned into a disappointment. Maybe it's the addiction talking? Either way, not attractive.
I had a boyfriend once who borrowed $50 then disappeared. He called me many months later saying "hi" as if we'd just spoken. I honestly didn't recognise his voice. Once I figured out who it was I asked if he had my $50 & that was the end of it. I'm guessing he called hoping I'd invite him over for...well who knows...but really after he stole $50 I'm supposed to want him? Pah leeeze. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Wait, maybe there has already been shrinkage....Interestingly there is shrinkage in pottery.
Okay I just lost interest.
One day I was watching Discovery channel and saw a program on the making of toilets start to finish. Before the toilets were fired, they were huge! Interestingly, as I understand it, they test the efficiency of a toilet's flush using bags of peanut butter. That should work.
In the Middle East and Asia, they don't use toilets. Oh, maybe I already mentioned that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Since it is kind of quiet, can we play the "Let's Make Stef Cry" game again? I'll take "Wayward Husbands" for $200, Alex. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
When someone takes adavantage of other one in Mexico, we say: Me llevó al baile.
I thought when someone took advantage of you in Mexico you told him: "¡Qué te vayas a la chingada!
It is interesting how we have this amazing ability to blame all our problems on someone else. My particular problems, for example, are caused by aliens who abducted me once and placed a mind control device inside my head and now manipulate me from outer space. Not much I can do about it really.
I truly hope that your W does not let her lawyer convince her to reneg on your agreement. So the 401K's are a push. That's good news. Your retirement is where I see things potentially breaking down. I agree you need to try to protect that as best you can. If she (via her lawyer) does decide to go after that, think of creative ways. Rather than taking a significantly reduced cash value now, maybe she would consider a deferred payment that would benefit you both. It is just an idea. Maybe she will stay with your agreed plan. Hope so. If you are truly committed to D, I think the faster you can get it done, the better off you will be. The less face time she has with her lawyer, the better for everyone.
My particular problems, for example, are caused by aliens who abducted me once and placed a mind control device inside my head and now manipulate me from outer space. Not much I can do about it really.
Okay, this 'splains things. Earlier you said a relay satellite positioned a light year from Earth is responsible for the DH delay. I submit it is actually the aliens who are a light year away.
When you flush your "bags of peanut butter" down the water closet, apparently, that also takes two years. I can just see the aliens: how can we increase the velocity of light. And, hey, they are a light year away.
What do they use? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
[color:"green"] I wish I could tell him to go and ch... but I don't think he'll get the semantinc value. Besides his mom is a very nice lady. His daughter writes to me from time to time. I'm trying to let her go smoothtly and cause no further drama in her life. [/color]
I have a hard time 'geting it' understanding this suden change of personality. Was it always there or is his addiction? Hard to tell. I start to understand how difficult it's to understand, lol. If I was special to him why he couldn't protect me and us from his addiction? I know, because he's an addict. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> He tries to make me react by saying that to pay me back he needs to work and to work he needs to be calm and to be calm he needs to talk to me. If I loved him as I said I did I would talk to him. I don't answer anymore.
Did I said the plumber came yesterday? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He changed the valves and pipes of the bathroom.
I can just see the aliens: how can we increase the velocity of light.
Well I don't know how to do it but I can say for a fact that telling the light that it looks just fine like it is, that it doesn't need to go try on other quantum states, that color looks great on it, that it already has no mass so doesn't look fat, that it is already radiant so doesn't need any more make up and telling it to hurry up because you are already late simply will NOT work!
Mainly he has tried to justify his actions. Sometimes I feel he tries to make me mad to be able to justify himself.
Plumbers always try to charge too much and they use all sorts of terms they think you don't understand to get away with it. You stick to your guns. Don't let him justify those charges for the little work that he did. You keep that plumber honest!
Don't let him justify those charges for the little work that he did.
Actually I had a glimpse at plumbing * the way it was I guess 20 or more years ago, before silicon. To fit one tube into another there was candle cord between them. When he had finished his job he was explaining how to keep the valves clean and that I should not use them until the next day. Then he opened it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
This is the same plumber who said he was a wrestler in his youth. He's now an open market seller of cleaning products.
By his comments I get he thinks I'm very poor because I don't have a TV. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Earlier, Pio said that they test toilets by flushing bags of peanut butter down them. In my post, the PB was a metaphor, but there was nothing interesting to bold in the word metaphor, so I relegated the choice to analogy.
I'm with you. I don't understand the X-ray thing either. If you get a clue, drop me an email.
We had a small crisis last night. We were in bed almost asleep when DD1 came in with a tooth that had just come out. I told her to put it in the shoe under her bed for the ratoncito. She has not been going to sleep early so I went to sleep and forgot all about it. When they got up this AM the power was off on our part of camp. Tooth never crossed my mind. She came in with her tooth in her hand. The ratoncito had forgotten her. We told her that with the power outtage, the ratoncito couldn't see the tooth. Dodged a bullet. I HAVE to remember tonight!
Dialog from the movie "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me"
[Noticing Dr. Evil's spaceship on radar] Radar Operator: Colonel, you better have a look at this radar. Colonel: What is it, son? Radar Operator: I don't know, sir, but it looks like a giant... Jet Pilot: [censored]. [censored], take a look out of starboard. Co-Pilot: Oh my God, it looks like a huge... Bird-Watching Woman: Pecker. Bird-Watching Man: [raising binoculars] Ooh, Where? Bird-Watching Woman: Over there. What sort of bird is that? Wait, it's not a woodpecker, it looks like someone's... Army Sergeant: Privates. We have reports of an unidentified flying object. It has a long, smooth shaft, complete with... Baseball Umpire: Two balls. [looking up from game] Baseball Umpire: What is that. It looks just like an enormous... Chinese Teacher: Wang. pay attention. Wang: I was distracted by that giant flying... Musician: Willie. Willie: Yeah? Musician: What's that? Willie: [squints] Well, that looks like a huge... Colonel: Johnson. Radar Operator: Yes, sir? Colonel: Get on the horn to British Intelligence and let them know about this.
This is Ground Control to Major Tom You've really made the grade And the papers want to know whose shirts you wear Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare
This is Major Tom to Ground Control I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way And the stars look very different today
For here Am I sitting in a tin can Far above the world Planet Earth is blue And there's nothing I can do
Though I'm past one hundred thousand miles I'm feeling very still And I think my spaceship knows which way to go Tell my wife I love her very much she knows
Ground Control to Major Tom Your circuit's dead, there's something wrong Can you hear me, Major Tom? Can you hear me, Major Tom? Can you hear me, Major Tom? Can you....
Here am I floating round my tin can Far above the Moon Planet Earth is blue And there's nothing I can do.
I spent my first night away from home. I slept fairly well, which surprised me. Had to drive from work to near home (26-miles) to vote, then to the therapist (10-miles), then to the bank and fast food (5-miles), and then to my friends house (10-miles), so my running around didn't end till almost 20:00, then I had to unload and stow my clothes, etc. It was a long day.
I called the wife in the PM to discuss a few items and asked her to ditch her lawyer and have us both go to a mediator. I told her it would cost less and take less time. I don't see that with the holdiays approaching and at least one lawyer involved, there's no way we'll be divorced before the new year. I don't think she was enthused about the mediator idea. I will keep mentioning it.
Truth be told, I'd rather be at home sleeping on the couch. These are truly dark days. My life truly sucks.
Where I'm staying now is much closer to work but about 15-miles from my house. I won't be running back and forth often. I will visit Saturday as arranged.
I confirmed that the divorce case has been filed by looking it up on the internet. I expect to be served papers today or tomorrow. The wife said last night the she was sticking to our agreement to remove certain elements that have been filed. So far she has been sticking to he word.
I need to find the will and energy to want to go on. I can muddle through, but nothing seems to matter. I'm not suicidal, just unmotivated about life in general. I'm sure some of you have treaded where I am now. I know that it will get better. I need something to look forward to.
You are in a negative tailspin. While, to an extent, it is understandable, you exhibit clear signs of self pity. Self pity and emotional sentimentality will get you nowhere. You need to develop a clear head and think your way through the maze you are about to go through. Judging by your MB start date, you have been dealing with this issue for three years, yet you sound like someone who had their DD in the last few months.
I have never heard of a D case that was amiable. You should expect your life and relationship with your W as you navigate through the D to encounter some turbulence. Don't set yourself up to believe otherwise.
Finally, you refer to your W as "the" wife. Is this a description you have always used?
Me thinks you may get depressed because you are supressing your instintes of fighting back. You are gulping what's been thrown your way, ouch.
I feel your comments of a fun guy and a man pad very self centered and painful for your teen girl. Much is said about the importance of a dad for the boys. I think Dads are as important for the self esteem of girls. It seems as if you have not considered time or space in your new life for your daughter.
I've great respect for Todd, Pio and BigK and although their situations are different the three of them fought with the good fight for their families. Tough love and self respect. Their WW's certainly noticed.
Are you a digital operated 'persona'? You never sleep? I thought so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I am Superman. I thought that fact was clearly established.
Here is my digital persona from my favorite movie of all time:
Dave Bowman: Hello, HAL do you read me, HAL? HAL: Affirmative, Dave, I read you. Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL. HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. Dave Bowman: What's the problem? HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do. Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL? HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. Dave Bowman: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL? HAL: I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen. Dave Bowman: Where the ******'d you get that idea, HAL? HAL: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
Dave Bowman: All right, HAL; I'll go in through the emergency airlock. HAL: Without your space helmet, Dave, you're going to find that rather difficult. Dave Bowman: HAL, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the doors! HAL: Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.
HAL: I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you. Dave Bowman: Yes, I'd like to hear it, HAL. Sing it for me. HAL: It's called "Daisy". [HAL sings while slowing down.] HAL: Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.
You still have your toes left Todd? I thought those would have been chewed off by now.
Hi stef,
Yes I still have all my left toes and my right toes as well. Of course, they are sitting in a jar of formaldehyde along with my knuckles, elbows and knees.
I have use the term "the wife" here. I'm not sure what significance you attach to that, please explain. I can call her STBXW if i makes everyone feel better.
Yes, there will be turbulence and I have actually heard of amiable divorces. I have at 24-hour call two friends who wnet through nightmare divorces and their advice has been invaluable. I have the requisite amount of distrust and paranoia.
My therpaist said last night to me that he thought I was thinking very clearly for someone who was in shock.
As far as my mood, I might detect a slight improvement because I did not cry last night or yet today. I just had a wonderful talk with mucho insight from an old friend. The friend also had mucho advice. I am buoyed by tht experience.
Last night was my first night away from home (in this mode). I am bound to be close to my low-point. Maybe it has already passed, I don't know.
larousse,
Perhaps I need to explain further. I love my daughter and am very concerned about her well-being. We talked on the phone last night and I expect that we will every day. I will see her this weekend and also have the opportunity to take Friday off and spend it with her. She was amused about the comment about the man pad. Should I get the house in question, or any house for that matter, one bedroom is hers and she gets to pick out the furnishings and decorate it. This idea excites her. She will always be in my life and I will have some custody of her. I look forward to me being the fun guy and her being the fun girl, and I'm talking about all-encompassing fun, not just partying and carousing. I am looking forward to a better relationship with my daughter than we had before. Not all of this is possible at the moment. I will have a lifetime interest in her welfare. She is in good hands at the moment.
I have needs right now that are temporary. I need to heal myself some. I haven't even started that yet.
I know you're hurting and numb (me too!), but you sound like your doing a lot better than you were a few days ago. And every day will be a little better...take it one day at a time.
I agree with Pio (what's wrong with that sentence?), don't push W into doing anything, and if you don't want the divorce, draw it out until you both can clear your heads.
I have use the term "the wife" here. I'm not sure what significance you attach to that, please explain.
The question is why do you refer to your W as "the" wife and not my wife?
As for your mood, you have demonstrated self pity before moving out and before you knew that your W had filed for D. It's your choice booka but a positive attitude can help you through this process.
First of all, "2001" is one of my favorite films. I'm a big Kubrick fan in general. I can remember seeing this film as a child in a theater of what was then my home town of Annapolis MD. As I got older, I also read the novel and came to understand the film very well. I still consider it a masterpiece and way ahead of its time. I also a big David Lean fan.
Actually, if you read all of my posts, you might notice that I use "my wife", "the wife", "w", "wife", and "STBXW". I don't attach any significance to which term I use in relation to my mental/emotional state. There are other words that described her better, but there are ladies here.
I will assume that due to your marital situation and you illness that you have gone through quite a bit of what I have. I would welcome your advice for dealing with it. Yes, I have self-pity. I also have anger. I've got the whole range, actually, inclduing grief. I will get beyond it. In my normal modd, I'm extremely positive. I told a friend a couple of months ago that I was on ADs, and the friend couldn't beleive it and said "But you're Mr. Happy!" I want to be Mr. Happy again. I can't do it in one day unless one of several miracles happened. I can't depend on miracles and I can't even imagine them. I will have to bootstrap myself. I actually feel better today.
I need to find the will and energy to want to go on. I can muddle through, but nothing seems to matter. I'm not suicidal, just unmotivated about life in general. I'm sure some of you have treaded where I am now. I know that it will get better. I need something to look forward to.
((((((((((((((Booka)))))))))))))
...keep putting one foot in front of the other...Booka...I am not going through the D process...but I can confirm that over a year ago...I was a 'basketcase' soon after WS moved out...took it to mean WS was 'abandoning M'...not sure why he hasn't filed yet, though.... guess he's waiting until 'he gets around to it'.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...but, yes, it DOES get better, Booka....keep repeating this to yourself...you WILL get through this....and the saying is true: what doesn't kill you...DOES make you stronger... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
This is the time where you need to find as much support as you can get around you in addition to coming here as often as you need.....start to include on your 'daily' TO DO list....something that you enjoy.... and go out and get some fresh air...some oxygen to the brain can't hurt... but don't be surprised to feel what I call the 'numb' feeling just because otherwise it HURTS too much... I think the survival instinct kicks in wanting to 'dose out' the pain so it's bearable!
Quote
I will have to bootstrap myself. I actually feel better today.
It's one day at a time.
Geesh....Booka...didn't think my post would have such a positive effect already, considering that I had not posted it yet...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I am Superman. I thought that fact was clearly established.
It is Todd....Larousse just forgot....she's only HUMAN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Just your thoughts as you were typing your post were inspiration enough.
It is a beautiful day here, near 70 degrees and sunny. I may have a brief meeting after work and then am going to explore the neighborhood I'm now living in on foot and at a brisk pace. I've had several communtications via email with the wife today concerning our settlement, all positive. My guard is till up, but she hasn't broke a promise yet.
I don't want to say I'm over a hump, but today has definitely been better. I need a purpose to every day, a task I can accomplish. I ran a bunch of errands at work and even that made me feel better.
Get this guys, I now like to shop, like to arrange flowers, like to cook, like to do laundry, life affection more than sex, I can build a house from scratch, I can sail, I can ride a motorcycle, I can ride a skateboard, I can clean a toilet, I like gardening, I am now concerned with my appearance everywhere I go, I've been paying attention to my clothes, I've lost 35+ pounds, I have terrific energy, and the next time I have sex it's going to be great. Damn, I'm turning into a metrosexual!
Oh, and I like single-barrel bourbon, 10-years or older!
Just your thoughts as you were typing your post were inspiration enough.
Did you hear that Superman?....uhmmm....you might have some competition.....I may just have some 'undetected' telepathy powers going here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Oh, and I like single-barrel bourbon, 10-years or older!
Alright...metrosexual Booka...go slow on the liquor....you got enough trouble! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I was served papers about an hour ago.
Sorry to hear the news...
((((((((((((((((BOOKA))))))))))))))))))
Quote
No, divorce is not final until one of you is dead.
...suppose...technically...you are right, Pio! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
You all crack me up...I was smiling my face off just reading all the updates.
I love that booka has discovered his metrosexual side...hang in there buddy, sounds like you are surviving quite well and should be capitalizing on all of your A related improvements. Crazy how something so nasty still is able to have positive effects if we let them happen or seize the opportunity. Booka, you will make someone a wonderful best friend and lover but I think you have the right idea on the need to heal yourself first.
Kiwi, your humor is medicinal...dry and potent...love it
Steph, what's up with you...last I read you were talking about moving out but BK advised that you stay and he goes...
Nams, thanks for the 1/2 year advice. I don't know what to do at this point. WH wants to come back and make nice...I don't think anything has really changed and am very skeptical that it really can change. Now that he is out, my kids are getting adjusted to the idea and it will have to be a pretty impressive committment to work on M for me to let him back in. I am fine with him gone. He is the one having issues, calling and wanting to stop by etc. I told him we need to sit down and discuss our plans for future. Last night he asked why I couldn't just say he can come back and everything would be ok. I responded that we needed to go somewhere alone to talk...a place where he couldn't just leave at the first feeling of discomfort...he took this to mean that I will not let him return and started pushing me to discuss it right then. I refused.
Honestly, I am leaning toward ending things. Logically that may be crazy since I have endured so much for so long in the hopes that he would be fog-free and commit to R. My gut says he is just in a vunerable moment and once he re-establishes a chick network he will be back to his old ways. I don't think I have the energy, tolerance or patience to wait and see how this pans out.
Larousse, sorry about XBF...((((((((larousse)))))))))
Todd, I must agree about Maj Tom...sticks in your head. Now I have never heard it called an earworm though. How're the teeth doing these days. You'll be happy to know I am enjoying a nice glass of Handley chardonnay as I write. About the body parts and formaldahyde...toes, knuckles, elbows...just so Johnson doesn't make it to the jar!
Pio, so how is it now that G has been home for a few weeks?
Luna...sorry I missed your birthday but happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday our dear luna, happy birthday to you!!!!
Howdy and hugs to Believer, BK, Beth and anyone I may have missed.
Hope you all have a great night...of to kiddie land.
My gut says he is just in a vunerable moment and once he re-establishes a chick network he will be back to his old ways. I don't think I have the energy, tolerance or patience to wait and see how this pans out.
Much as I hate to it 2much, I think you're right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
booka, sounds like you're trying to move your emotions along quickly. I'm sorry to say it doesn't work like that. They have a life of their own & will surprise you in both good & bad ways.
One incident happened recently to me & really pissed me off. ex dropped the boys off & we shared a very quick, easy laugh about something that related back years & needed no explanation because we'd lived it together. It pissed me off because it was so easy & because that shared history isn't part of my life with a partner any longer. That two second event still makes me cry when I think of the loss.
My point being, you're supercharged to head into your new life & a positive attitude VS self pity is great. But your married life doesn't just disappear & leave only the good stuff behind.
Todd has a very good point about taking care of yourself financially. I required a lawyer because I wasn't able to feel like my best interests or that of my boys would be served with mediation. Once the lawyers get involved things are adversarial, just a fact but one that may be necessary as it was for me.
One thing you said disturbed me when you were talking about your daughter. You said you want to be the fun guy & her the fun girl. You're her father, not some part time entertainment. At first, when ex moved out, he took the kids all sorts of fun places. He was the typical Disney dad. IMO it was not what the boys needed most. What they needed was to know dad was still dad, that he would care for them always, that he was there for them when they had emotional issues relating to the D. I know they didn't feel they could talk with him because they told me & came to me with their concerns. Words about emotional support are easy, it's the supportive behavior that will help your D most.
Have you discovered an interest in pottery? Do you have an interest in trying to make some yourself? Some people look at it as a form of therapy. I've only seen a small percentage of students who didn't gain something from working with clay. They are usually the perfectionists among us.
One woman came with her daughter. They were there to enjoy time together & perhaps come out with a couple of pieces they liked. The mother, a therapist, left the seven week class with nothing because she couldn't make the "perfect" bowl. Glad she wasn't my therapist.
Thanks for posting the George Ore (the mad potter) link. When I read about him I wondered how he could make pots all day without much commercial success & having all those mouths to feed. I'd like nothing better than to be in a position to make pottery all day. I do think the most successful artists are the ones who can devote themselves to whatever medium they work in. I don't find creativity can be forced into particular predetermined blocks of time.
You sound like you're back to you cheerful self, very nice.
{{{larousse}}} I'm sorry your xbf is trying to drive you carzy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />. Must be painfull to see the changes in him when not too long ago you were looking forward to a future. {{{larousse}}}
I think I need to take a career test or maybe speak with a career councelor.
Does anybody have experience with this or have any suggestions?
I've read a few books, "What Color is Your Parachute" & a couple of others but I think I need a test, something that may point me in a direction I've not considered. Something that would not necessarily involve returning to school for a master's degree.
Perhaps I need to explain myself further. The real point is that I haven't been fun for about 6-7 months. I've been self-absorbed in dealing with the issues that lead up to our divorce. When I wasn't self-absorbed, I was focused on trying to make STBXW happy in any way I could. Ultimately it was selfish of me to do so, but I was not right in many ways and it took almost all of my energy to cope with my feelings. I saw DD13 last night. I want to share a bigger part of my life with her. I'm sure she needs to heal as well. I just got off of the phone with her and offered to take tomorrow off an spend the day with her. I certainly want to be more fun than I have been.
In more general news, even after being served I felt pretty good and was able to crack a few jokes about it. I wanted to speak to my neighbor (CS), so he invited me over to his house. As soon as I walked in the door there were some mutual friends there and CS had dinner ready to serve. I had a great dinner and some very expensive wine (Newton). We had a great man chat and they were all shocked about the news and very sympathetic and supportive. One of them had been divorced before. DD13 came down and we talked. I needed a few items from the house, so I told DD13 to tell STBXW that I would be stopping by and to call me if that was not acceptable. I had a private chat with CS and asked him to keep an eye on things at my ex-house and to be supportive of STBXW and DD13. I did not get called, so stopped by my ex-house and rang the doorbell. STBXW said that I did not need to do that, I could have just come in. I dropped some empty boxes off and picked up a few items. The STBXW was clearly uncomfortable that I was there and I assured her that I meant her no harm. We discussed a few divorce issues and I apologized and left. My friend who I am staying with (CH) said that maybe STBXW was worried about me reaction to being served. I was in such a good mood at the time that the thought never occured to me.
As I went back to CH's house I had a long conversation with my mother. After I got to CH's house, I unloaded a few things that I had brought over. We watched a bit of TV and had a good chat. CH has a lot of insight that will be valuble to me. I am sleeping better that I have been in a long time.
I had a long chat with my sister (B) this morning on the way to work. After years, I fianlly reconnected with her and am glad that I did. It took me a long time to realize that she is a wonderful person and she has been very supportive of me. We had a great chat.
I got to work and called my home number to speak to DD13 about her thoughts about Friday. STBXW answered and I apologized for making her nervous last night and explained that I hoped that it didn't have to be that way in the future. DD13 was in the shower and called me back later. DD13 did not have any firm ideas for Friday, so I asked her to think about it and call me this afternoon.
Not all of this is possible at the moment. I will have a lifetime interest in her welfare. She is in good hands at the moment.
I have needs right now that are temporary. I need to heal myself some. I haven't even started that yet.
Booka....please remember...you're leaving your daughter with a WS...don't count on WS to validate hurt your daughter is feeling....as WS is mostly likely in denial and makes 'selfish' choices....my boys spend a week with their dad....and they can't wait to get back 'home' for the week with me...because he's not THERE 100%......your daughter needs YOU sooner than later!
...and I see that Nams is voicing similar concerns!
Quote
I've been self-absorbed in dealing with the issues that lead up to our divorce. When I wasn't self-absorbed, I was focused on trying to make STBXW happy in any way I could.
Booka...just be aware of these 'traps'...because technically now you could justify being 'self-absorbed WITH the divorce, and then the AFTER divorce...there will be no end, unless you can make a conscious effort to focusing on you daughter and making her a priority.....believe me, I am speaking from experience! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Hi 2much....thanks for the birthday wishes...appreciate the updates....keep them coming...we like to know what you are up to!
Quote
I told him we need to sit down and discuss our plans for future. Last night he asked why I couldn't just say he can come back and everything would be ok. I responded that we needed to go somewhere alone to talk...a place where he couldn't just leave at the first feeling of discomfort...he took this to mean that I will not let him return and started pushing me to discuss it right then. I refused.
2much...you are dealing with a WS....Do you feel you have put the DOTS close enough for him about what needs to happen?...Is it anywhere in WRITING?...do you feel he KNOWS what your boundaries and conditions are?.....if not, do so and THEN leave the ball in his court!....uhmmmmm.... basically....in looking over my post....sounds like PLAN B!
Quote
I've only seen a small percentage of students who didn't gain something from working with clay.
Nams?....can Todd consider doing pottery even with knuckleless hands? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The STBXW was clearly uncomfortable that I was there and I assured her that I meant her no harm. We discussed a few divorce issues and I apologized and left.
Quote
STBXW answered and I apologized for making her nervous last night and explained that I hoped that it didn't have to be that way in the future.
I hope you apologised too for breathing, for making her have an affair, for pushing her to file behind your back, for simple obstruct her way to happyness. Nothing like a metrosexual man to fuel entitlement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
(Really don't try chest depilation ingrows are nasty.)
STBXW answered and I apologized for making her nervous last night and explained that I hoped that it didn't have to be that way in the future.
I hope you apologised too for breathing, for making her have an affair, for pushing her to file behind your back, for simple obstruct her way to happyness. Nothing like a metrosexual man to fuel entitlement.
(Really don't try chest depilation ingrows are nasty.)
Booka...why the need to be 'so nice' to the person who has just destroyed your family? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
THREE stars used to be unacceptable....but apparently....one has little control over THAT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
....but I can certainly do something about this thread being on page THREE!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
.....hold on to your hats...I am bummmmpppinnnnnnggggg it UP! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Steph, what's up with you...last I read you were talking about moving out but BK advised that you stay and he goes...
Hi 2much...thanks for asking about me. I'm not quite sure what's going on with me. I'm being told to establish my boundaries to WH and stick to them, go to Plan B after said period of time if he doesn't live within my boundaries, I'm being told to stay in Plan A for a little while longer and I'm being told to start Plan B immediately, if not sooner.
I'm being pulled in all different directions and I'm not sure which way to go. My heart tells me Plan A him for a little while longer, but BigK and others tell me this is a mistake.
Any advice from TKO?
Where has Beth been???? I hope she's OK... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Have you recovered from your extended birthday celerations?
...almost...trying hard to keep the 'momentum' going seeing that I am leaving this Sunday for a week to.....SAAAAAN FRAANCISCOOOOOO (special visual effect: imagine me singing it à la Tony Bennett!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
So...Larousse...how are you doing? Has BF tried to 'contact' you, yet again? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I'm being pulled in all different directions and I'm not sure which way to go. My heart tells me Plan A him for a little while longer, but BigK and others tell me this is a mistake.
((((((((((((((stph20)))))))))))))))))
stph20...would you update me on what you have decided... at one point you considered moving out....don't know if you missed my post...but if anyone needs to move out, it needs to be WS!
Now....I understand the dilemna of WHEN to go into PLAN B... personally I did so at about one or maybe two weeks after WS moved out (and was temporarily staying with OW)..... I think I 'stuck it' out as long as I could....until the 'moment' you realize that...although afraid of being 'alone'...it could not be worst than having to deal with a WS! ....and so....the letter....etc. etc. come easy....
In looking back...I wish I had come to that realization sooner....it would have saved me a lot of PAIN and SUFFERING!
I guess the question to ask yourself about your decision to stay in PLAN A...is, if you think you have what it takes to continue doing a PLAN A, that you have not yet given it your all..... OR.....if you are staying in PLAN A because you FEAR being alone and so stay tooo long in PLAN A for the wrong reasons...
...yes, PLAN B is scary, and it is basically that.... choosing to be alone rather than stay in a R with a WS..... as PLAN B is 'No Contact' with WS until......
...and yes, PLAN B ends PLAN A and the opportunity to show WS the 'best of you'!
....PLAN B is no more no less....TURNING the page that has been staring at you for a while!
...This is the problem I ended up having....by waiting too long...the pain and fear were so great that it 'paralyzed' me for awhile....and I was unable to THINK or ACT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...PEP was ssoooo discouraged...she later told me she considered leaving MB board!
I think I have redeemed myself...I HEARD it all....and when I was able to...went into ACTION! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
As long as you think you are on top of PLAN A and think you have a good 'handle' on it fine.... but if you have 'meltdowns' like the other night...not good.... because otherwise the longer you wait the longer it will become a matter of saving YOU never mind saving the M!
I appreciate all of your sentiments. There is no proof that she is a WS. If I wasn't sure DD13 was in good hands, I would fight for full custody. I know you want to paint STBXW as the bad guy. Yes, she did things to me. There was a lot she didn't do. She did file behind my back. These things are all in the past.
I want to remain on good terms and not burn any bridges. There is no percentage in retribution. This is for DD13's sake. I want DD13's M and F to get along after the D for DD13's sake. I keep telling people, especially over at ENs, that this is not the standard setup. Things are different in our situation and it will be hard for all of you to understand. I can't hate STBXW, it's not good fo me. I have shed pain and resentments. STBXW is driven by her resentments. She needs time to work them out. I don't want to be like her. There is no pay-back, I've got to move on. At this point in time, I want to be divorced.
Plus, I don't want to spend the night in jail for visiting what is still my house. I still have keys and the garage code. I still have a lot of stuff there and probably will until I move into a house.
I tour the inside of the house that I want today. Be happy, be light! I'm happy today. Please don't spoil my mood.
Her behavior follows the patern of the people who get's involve in EA or PA and the time line seems coincident with the friendship with the N. She says she's not in love with you. The nature of affairs makes the BS appear as not attractive and to rewrite history. She writes to him from work and talks to him from work. She ignores you when you are at his house. She spends two nights there with daughter. She arrenges dinners and activities. She sacrifices her weekends for his children. She gets in fool mood when his girlfriend is present.
Quote
If I wasn't sure DD13 was in good hands, I would fight for full custody
Your WW leaves your DD alone to be at the N. Drinks a lot in front of her shows her that's ok to throw your husband out when you are 'no longer in love'.
Quote
I know you want to paint STBXW as the bad guy
Well, she's a girl or so I thought. I have no interest in present her in any way. You do need to know who you are dealing with and the motivations behind what she does. I think she's at least in a EA and has tried hard to get what she wants without been the bad guy. So you take the words of an addict, in MB terms and accept them as face value. She says you are the problem and you sincerely believe that if you change everything will change. The Plan A implies to bust the affair. No matter how much you change if the affair doesn't stop your WW won't be able to fall in love with you again. Your WW, in an unstable emotional state, fills for divorce and you would give it to her, and you would do it as fast and clean as you can as to not upset her.
Quote
Things are different in our situation and it will be hard for all of you to understand.
Okaaaaaaaaaay. Well that's what all WW say. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> As other have say your situation is a garden variety affair. The only unusual is the thickness of your own fog. You think you have figured out how things are and should be, aka, you have rationalizated your situation in a way it makes sense to you causing minimum of pain.
I have no desire or intention to paint your W under any other light but the light of a troubled WW. I wouldn't want you to be anything but gentleman and do what's right. What's not right is to apologise for going to your own house.What's not right is to belive that you read your WW mind or ours. You can be respectful without doing appeasement.
Quote
Be happy, be light! I'm happy today. Please don't spoil my mood.
Where did you get that crackpot NewAged (old aged) philosopy?
I certainly hope you keep your integrity and don't fall into depression.
Have you discovered an interest in pottery? Do you have an interest in trying to make some yourself? Some people look at it as a form of therapy. I've only seen a small percentage of students who didn't gain something from working with clay. They are usually the perfectionists among us.
Hi nams,
Purely from an art appreciation standpoint. If you took my artistic ability and put it in a thimble, you would still have room to park a 747.
Hey Todd, as a digital persona, are you ever switched off?
Luna,
XBF tries a new strategy almost every other day. His last offer was to send me some of his paintings as a way to pay me. I felt tempted to tell him that I would wait until he dies of an overdose and becomes a famous artist.
Can I go to SF? Please? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
larousse, I appreciate your opinions. I am considering all angles. I have chosen a course and I'm sticking to it and we'll just have to see what shakes loose after the fact.
Todd had a good point about booka registering in 2003. So I went back and read the original posts. My rough mental math tells me that the M has been in serious problems for at least 5 years or maybe longer and possibly even since DD was born.
I will endorse what others have said. W sounds like a terrible role model for DD.
XBF tries a new strategy almost every other day. His last offer was to send me some of his paintings as a way to pay me. I felt tempted to tell him that I would wait until he dies of an overdose and becomes a famous artist.
Hey Todd, as a digital persona, are you ever switched off?
Did you not read my post about HAL? Dave removed his circuits and he shut down. Yes, I am HAL. And no, because of Pio's SA comment, I will never tell the derivation of the name HAL.
Quote
Can I go to SF? Please?
So Luna, you are going to SF? When do you leave for San Francisco?
DD has just left SF. In 12 hours she'll be touching down on home ground.
All New Zealanders get a huge thrill as they come in to land over Auckland. First you cross the sea and see all the beaches then you see the green hills of home.
DD has just left SF. In 12 hours she'll be touching down on home ground.
All New Zealanders get a huge thrill as they come in to land over Auckland. First you cross the sea and see all the beaches then you see the green hills of home.
Jen, hope you and your daughter have a wonderful reunion. She'll be so excited to see you, but no doubt exhausted from the journey too. Happy days to you all! TT
Good news! I have just completed three days of extensive medical testing and got an all clear verdict. Yipppeee.. I try to tell myself I am not worrying but then the doctor walks in with the results and you realize you have been holding your breath for three days. Time to walk on the beach and get sand between my toes, time to hug my boys if they want it or not, time to buy a winter coat after all etc. etc. etc. I don't go back for another three months - life is so good!
There has been so much happening with you all while I have been gone it will take me ages to catch up. I will sit and read and post tomorrow. I just wanted to share my good news tonight. I can't get the smile from my face.
Todd what's going on with you? Aside from lyrics and geekspeak I haven't heard much. Are you feeling better?
Stph, Being the human doormat, I feel entitled to speak up on your sitch. Cake-eaters thrive on plan A...it makes everything so convenient for them with pretty much no strings attached...since we don't LB and DJ and only let them know how their actions make us feel there is very little consequence for those in the fog. The whole point of plan A is to give them a frame of reference for when plan B goes into action. This was explained to me repeatedly but I was in my own fog of denial trying to protect myself from pain. If you have identified his cake-eating ways, which you have; done a great plan A, which you have; it's time to move on to B. I wish I had taken the advice but with kids it makes it a bit more difficult. If you want a chance at a true R then IMHO I think you should go to a very dark B.
Kiwi, glad you will get to see your DD soon. Hope the reuinion is everything you have been expecting.
Hi Luna, Larousse, BK, Pio, Booka and TT.
WH is coming over to spend time with kids today. Although he is out of the house it is not a plan B. He wants to come back but has avoided any discussion of his plan if he is permitted to return. I have been great with him out...my stomach is no longer nauseated 24/7 and I don't wonder/worry about his whereabouts.
I dread any discussion of return. He feels he has already met 2 of my dealbreakers by establishing NC and getting new job. My only other conditions were total honesty and transparency...
If I allow return and he seems willing to attempt R I may pursue the MB home study course. I know BK says he used it. WH actually even agreed to return to MC for my sake if he comes home.
It kinda stinks I have a little taste of anxiety free living so I don't know if I really want to try and put myself back out there. I would like to put down my conditions on paper but WH already made a joke that my farewell email to him read like a list of terrorist demands!!!
Well...have to work through my pile of deadlines. Good in that it gets my mind off reality...bad cause reality is always right there waiting for ya!
Oh Todd, it's not the product it's the process that will enrich you. Didn't you read my story about the woman, a therapist, who took a seven week class & came away with nothing because she was unable to make the "perfect" bowl?
If you end up divorcing & are looking for a way to meet people try a pottery class. Mine & those of the other instructors where I teach are overwhelmingly taken by women.
Oh Todd, it's not the product it's the process that will enrich you. Didn't you read my story about the woman, a therapist, who took a seven week class & came away with nothing because she was unable to make the "perfect" bowl?
Hi nams,
I am not concerned about making the perfect bowl. I don't even know if I can make an imperfect bowl. Do you have other artistic abilities, painting, etc?
So Luna, you are going to SF? When do you leave for San Francisco?
Sure, Larousse...you can join me anytime! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Todd..leaving this weekend for a week..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
TKO group....please don't get into toooooo much trouble while I am away...so I won't have as much to catch up when I return....and sorry....no, don't have a laptop so I can get 'hooked up' anywhere..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Luna - That was a fantastic post to Stef. Thankyou.
Glad to have your approval, BigK... PLAN B is scary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />....I myself couldn't figure out how I would manage WITHOUT contact with the person I had 'shared' my life with for the past TWENTY years (I know, for some of you it's even longer!)...particularly when I was at my worse...a total basketcase....I tell you....glad to have had friends who were ready to 'pick me up with a spoon'...I was such a mess....but a 'determined' mess!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
....I consider PLAN B is one part 'leap of faith'... and one part 'survival instinct'.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I just wanted to share my good news tonight. I can't get the smile from my face.
Great, Beth....it's the kind of news, I think, that helps put 'things' in perspective....
Quote
I would like to put down my conditions on paper but WH already made a joke that my farewell email to him read like a list of terrorist demands!!!
2much....I encourage you to do so.... and not just for your WS...but to help YOU keep in line.... and NOT compromise...and remain consciously aware of the high risk of a WS 'manipulating' a BS by knowing all the weak spots! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Thanks luna and 2much...I appreciate your advice so far.
I'm still weighing my options, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> but I'm printing out posts of advice to me and will go over them all this weekend.
Congratulations Beth, I'm so glad to see that you're back and had such great news!
Kiwi, I can't imagine how excited you are waiting for your DD's arrival back home. I hope she arrives safely and had a blast while she was gone!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Hello to everyone else! I hope everyone is doing well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Some times you can gain persepctive by reading the old posts of your thread. It might help you guide your decisions. On the other hand, sometimes you just re-live the pain. Tread lightly there.
You're right, I never thought about re-reading the old stuff. I'll try that. If it starts to hurt too much, I'll stop.
I'm going to try to take a break this weekend and Plan A my a** off.
How are you doing today booka?
It's not as gorgeous today as it has been the past 2 days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> And they're calling for flurries in the morning!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I was an active member on a site similar to MB and had quite a thread there at one time. I used to read all of the posts in my thread everyday. I found it to be a very productive process. As you hurl through this mess, it is very easy to lose perspective. By reading old posts, it reminded me of how far I had come. I used to laugh at myself. I was so full of anger and hurt it was amazing. I can think back about it now and just laugh.
Life is what it is. There are smooth days and lumpy days. What is different is our attitude. You can read your early posts and look for reminders of hurt and pain. Or you can read them and find lessons, mileposts and humor. I encourage you to look for the latter.
I left work early at 16:00 yestreday to look at the inside of the house I want to buy. It just convinced me more that it is the house for me. The realtor was hot but maried and drove me around in a CLK-550 convertible. Woo! As we were leaving the hosue, she asked if I wanted to put a contract on it. I resisted my urges and said show me 2-3 others in the same price range and in some specific locations. I doubt I'll find anything else that I would like better.
alked to DD13 and gave her the news about the house. Drove to CH's house where I'm currently staying and STBXW called just before I pulled into the driveway. I parked and we talked about 45-minutes about all kinds of things. She was even what I would describe as chatty. She asked for my advice and opinion on several household items. It was fairly pleasant. I will pay a scheduled visit tomorrow.
I then made a delicious dinner for myself of sauted (sp) tilapia with fresh luime juice and topped with salsa. Very tasty. I haven't really cooked for myself in years and it felt good. I picked on an iron and ironing board yesterday. CH and his DD6 arive home late and I had some familiy time with them. It brought back memories of my DD at that age. CH's DD6 actually asked me to read her a book, which I did. I did not sleep great with too many thoughts of the house going around my haad.
I am far enough away from the fitness center that its impractical to go there. They have a small fitness center here at work so I tried it for the first time and had a good workout of 50/50 elliptical and treadmill. I burned up lunch and some extra.
I talked about tonight's plan with CH last night. He has DD6 every other weekend and every day except Tuesday and this is his weekend without DD6. He caught me during my workout and gave a thumbs up to a place I've wanted to go to for ahppy hour. I will assume that we will do our best to get happy.
It's been a good day, the second good day in a row. Hopefully its the start of a trend.
One funny/odd thing. My parents live in Michigan and so does STBXW father and step mother. All of there parents get together from time to time for dinner, etc. They have been very friendly in the past. STBXW told me on the phone that my parents declined a dinner invitation to her parents and that her dad was upset by that. I've been talking to my mom about twice a day lately. She said nothing to me about it. I asked her about it and sshe said she wouldn't be comfortable going to STBXW's parents and may not be for some time. So there are repercussions beyond our immediate sphere. My mom said that my dad was very concerned about my welfare which frankly surprised me. My family has been very supportive of me, but I'm not rusing into their arms as I have to stand on my own.
It's the weekend, everyone have a good one. I will do my best to do the same.
The skies are dark here in Lake St. Louis where I work. I'm actually doing great. That makes two days in a row. Life does go on. I'm going out tonight with CH and we're going to tear it up!
No. I'm actually not buying anything at the moment. I will exercise caution in that regard and thank you for your concern. I don't anticipate buying a house until the divorce is final. The STBXW told me it should be within 30-days. We'll see how it pans out.
On another note, I hope that your health has improved this week and that you are feeling well, emotionally, physically, and mentally. Take care and have a good weekend.
Divorced in 30 days? Wow, never heard of such a thing. Mine took 1 1/2 years & it was not particularly difficult. Some tie ups due to ex negotiating this & that, but 30 days...What does your attorney say about that?
Hi Kiwi, how nice to have your D safe & sound at home. Do tell us what she has to say about Americans & the U.S.. Should be interesting.
Hi Todd, I can draw but I get a little compulsive so it's not satisfying until I'm done. I've been fighting painting for years. Each time I try it I get frustrated, but some day I'd like to use the colors available in paints.
Hi Beth, so happy to hear your great health news! I hope your boys gave you the biggest hugs ever.
Here's what we're having for dinner. The other night I cooked a pork picnic, no idea what that is other than cheap & fatty, in the crock pot. I got it down to just the meat which is now all broken down into strips/strings. I've flavored it with garlic, chili powder & it's reminiscent of pulled pork sandwich meat.
We have focaccia bread with roasted garlic & a spinach salad, hopefully minus e coli. YUM! The boys even seem happy with it.
I found the secret to making them happy with what I make. Keep them hungry all day so they appreciate anything that comes their way. Tee hee.
I'm reading the newest Patricia Cornwell book & can't wait to get back to it. Good thing I have no dating life. The onnly bad thing about her books is I tend to read them too fast I only get to enjoy them for a short time.
Hey nams, I posted this on Iditoville this morning.
"They talked a lot about the States this morning. Do you know what struck them more than anything else (apart from the size of food servings)? It was the service they got from everyone no matter where they were. In Europe, they said that even in the touristy places and even tourism offices they were always treated with surly indifference. In the States people always went out of their way to help, usually with a big smile and usually going the extra mile."
BTW, I used to draw and paint all the time. I took Art as one of my subjects in my final year of school. I don't do it so much any more, just like I don't write any more and I used to write constantly. I guess scrapbooking and painting pictures with flowers and plants in my garden are my creative outlets now.
Those who have seen the movie “Forest Gump” know that when Forest was a boy, he wore special boots and braces on his legs. I was born with bone deformities in my feet and lower legs. I wore almost the exact kind of special boots and braces when I was young. I had separate boots and braces that I had to wear while sleeping. Contrary to the movie, one can in no way run fast with those braces on, nor will running fast make them fall off. The boots could not have been uglier and the boots and braces were the objects of ridicule from other kids.
I was treated by two excellent docs, one an orthopedic surgeon and the other a podiatrist. The orthopedic went on to become one of the leading pioneers in the field of sports medicine. As for the podiatrist, I dated his DD when in high school. The podiatrist would come to hate me. The only reason I could see those docs was because they donated time to the Crippled Children’s Clinic, where I went for treatment.
My parents were told that my bone deformities could be improved but I would never be “normal”. I wore both sets of braces for years and absolutely hated it. Over the years, I did improve and I was regularly fitted with a new set of boots and braces, and over time the contraption got more and more streamlined until finally, I was able to get rid of the daytime boots and braces. Unfortunately, I wore the bedtime boots and braces for many years.
It took me a while to learn how to walk “normally” without the boots and braces. I finally did, or mostly did. Then one day when I was in the sixth grade, the school announced that, during recess, they were going to start having various competitions, among them the broad jump. The idea of leaping into the air and jumping as far as I could appealed to my Superman senses. The first day, I leaped a disappointing five feet. Every other kid in school jumped farther than that. I decided that my leg and feet bones would not prevent me from winning the long jump contest. I practiced in my yard every day. We had an area with a slight uphill and I practiced running and jumping uphill with the belief that it would help my jumping on a level surface.
It worked. On the day of the finals, I smoked the competition. I broad jumped 14 feet at the age of 12. The next closest distance was 12 feet. It was an especially sweet victory for me, not just because of the achievement but because of the obstacles I had to overcome. It took me a very valuable lesson early in life: we cannot dictate all the circumstances we find ourselves in. We can directly control our response to any setback. It was a grand lesson in positive thinking for me. To this day, I have no patience for those who feel sorry for themselves or who wallow in self-pity. There is nothing that life can hurl at us that we cannot overcome. The pituitary gland is the master gland in that it regulates all the other hormonal glands in our body. A positive attitude is the master of our setbacks and disappointments. Life is what you make of it.
I took away another lesson from the long jump contest. When the competition first started, a teacher would place a rope as the point from which you would leap. You would then run as fast as you could, try to come as close to the rope as possible without going over it, and jump like there was no tomorrow. I asked the teacher why not have a second rope at a short distance and move it farther from the first rope with each successive turn. She thought it was a good idea. They initially placed the rope at several feet and after everyone had their turn, they would move it out another foot. So, instead of blindly leaping into the air and seeing how far you can go, you had a goal to shoot for. It worked miracles for me. Once I had the target, I also had a goal and a benchmark posing as a simple strand of rope. It gave me an early lesson in goal setting: if you want optimal results in your life, set goals to shoot for.
Last November I was diagnosed with a 4.5 Cm brain tumor. I was told the tumor was inoperable and even a biopsy was not possible due to risk of brain tissue damage. It was “staged” using best estimates of tumor progression as depicted on MRI’s. By this time, I knew my WW had been having an affair. In December, I confronted my WW about her A. She denied it. In January, she finally confessed to her A. Yes, I was hurt and angry. I was livid. I entered posts on the other site that I am not proud of. But, through it all, I remained positive and resolute. Friends asked me how did I cope with everything. I asked them what they meant. Life deals you cards; you play the cards you are dealt. You can choose not to obviously, but trust me, life goes better and you will end up happier if you face any problem with a positive attitude, determination and optimism.
For those still awake, the below link is to a short narrative about Dr. Jack Hughston, the orthopedic surgeon who treated me. I guess it is no coincidence that his vision in pioneering sports medicine must have helped in my case as well.
Just an observation but putting things in perspective of your original thread(s) from 2003/2004 and then reading your latest thread on EN and comments here, it always stands out when you make comments about all these "hot" women you run into. Your comments about the happy hour a week or two ago (can't remember the wording of the post now) and everything else seem to me like SF is an extremely important emotional need for you and W has not been giving you that for nearly ten years and it has gotten much worse over the past 4 and now that you have an opportunity to get out of your marriage, all you can think about is your new found freedom to pursue SF. You have also said you will never marry again for love.
I find this interesting because, in my case, for the last year and even when WW and I were separated, I found all other women extremely unattractive - even the ones who others told me were very attractive indeed. I think many of us are surprised at how you have embraced this D so easily and quickly.
I guess my point is just be careful. It seems all you want is to have a good time and have SF. Ok. Just don't forget that (unless you get the bunny) you are involving another person in your recreation. Don't cause another person to have an A and don't mislead anyone about your intentions in your pursuit of SF. You have gone through a lot of pain and suffering. Just don't lead anyone else down that path too.
Yes, all things come in pairs it seems. One doc had the ambition of being the pioneer in the sports medicine field; the other had the ambition of killing me. At least they had goals.
No complaints. Honestly, he was justified. He wanted his daughter home NLT midnight; I always seemed to have her home by three or so. He never said it, but I am almost positive that he wanted her home sober. Oh well, life is full of disappointments. I even reminded him that he had treated me as a child. He was not impressed. For some reason, he put his daughter before our history together.
I was always disarming to the fathers I met. Clean cut, well sort of. But I always gave them a firm handshake and looked directly into their eyes. It charmed them in a way. When I got their DD home so late, it really shattered their vision of me.
No she didn't but here are some lyrics for Superman.
It's not easy being me
I can't stand to fly I'm not that naive I'm just out to find The better part of me
I'm more than a bird I'm more than a plane I'm more than some pretty face beside a train It's not easy to be... me
I wish that I could cry fall upon my knees find a way to lie But a ho I'm misunderstood Dont be naive Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed Of what you can see Even heroes have the right to dream And its not easy to be... me
Unbroken the way away from me Well its alright You can all sleep sound tonight Im not crazy or anything
I cant stand to fly I'm not that naive Men weren't meant to ride With clouds between their knees
I'm only a man With silly red shoes Taken for Kryptonite in this one way street I'm only a man with silly red shoes Looking for special things Inside of me
Inside of me x4
I'm only a man with silly red shoes im only a man looking for a dream I'm only a man with silly red shoes mmm Its not easy ooo ooo ooo
You must be drinking tequila again. Hace unos días posteaste que la palanca "Johnson" explicaba la visión de rayos X que tiene Superman. Nadie entiende que querías decir con ese comentario y somos bién curiosos. ¿Qué tiene que ver su visión con la palanca Johnson? Yet now you want to divert us to his reverse dressing policy? I don't think so!
Well, it took me a fair amount of time but I have finally caught up with all your posts. Reading here certainly takes you on an emotional ride. I have both laughed and cried for the past hour. Thank you all for being happy for my good news. I certainly got my Christmas blessing early.
Luna,
I wish you a very belated but very happy birthday. I hope you have a wonderful time in SF. It is a beautiful city and I am sure you will love it. Hope you like clam chowder!
Nams,
I know exactly what you mean about shared memories with your H. They are sweet moments with pain attached. Hopefully one day we maybe able to share them without the pain. There is always hope.
Yes Nams, I did get huge hugs from my boys and the four of us had pizza and popcorn and watched Dumb and Dumber to celebrate. I just love listening to my boys laugh at that movie.
2much,
I have utter faith that you will make the right decisons regarding your marriage. I have long admired your strength. We seem to be walking a similiar path at the moment regarding our husbands. I seem to be seeing far more of my H since he left our home and my anger has abated. This weekend I hopefully will have some spare time to find out exactly where on MB I need to post now. I am not in R but am not in plan B either. I truly am not sure where I belong.
Booka,
Be easy on yourself. Try and have some peaceful time to yourself to get your thoughts straight. Don't rush into anything, your emotions will probably be all over the place for quite awhile yet. Your daughter is at a very impressionable age and needs you to be a rock for her but I am sure you know that.
Todd,
Talking of daughters you made me glad that I didn't have one! My father would have been waiting for you with a shotgun.
You must come from good strong stock Todd, your parents must have been so proud of your fighting spirit. I have a friend whom also wore braces in her childhood but it was due to Polio. Like any adversity it certainly is character building but my heart broke for the little boy Todd.
Some of the bravest people I have ever met sat beside me lnked to IV poles having chemo for hours on end. You would not believe the humor and love that filled that room. It will stay with me all my life. I am sure those IV bags also fed us positive thoughts and a great appreciation for life.
I belong to a support group and I would just love to have you come in and be an inspirational speaker! Think about a trip to San Diego - no expenses paid though. lol
Kiwi,
It's so good to hear your daughter has some positive comments regarding America. It must have been wonderful to get her home after so long.
Stph,
You make me feel old. I read your posts and I remember what it is to be young and so eager to devour life. Your H is a very lucky man to have you and I hope he wakes up and realizes that. But Steph, just stand still for a minute and listen to the wonderful advice you get from BigK and the others. I so wish I had of found this site a year ago, I may have ended up in a better place in my M than I am right now.
One thing I can tell you is that since I asked my H to leave we have never seen so much of him. He says he misses me/us terribly and wants to R. I have told him that he would always have a PI as a shadow and that isn't even daunting him (at the moment). Maybe some people have to loose what they have before they can appreciate it? That includes myself.
Larousse I am so sorry the way it turned out with your BF.
BigK - keep up the good work with Stph. How are you?
Pio - How many hamsters did you end up with? How is the R going?
Wow, I wont tell you how long it took me to do this post. I am glad I am starting classes after Christmas. To anyone I missed - Hi !
I saw where you were being told stay with A / got to B and I can see the tug-of-war. I think that happened to me for a while too. I have even been part of your problem even though I said I didn't really want to comment on the timing of your Plan B. I just looked at the length of your Plan A and felt that you could use more "time in the saddle" but I was not really considering WH's actions. Having lived in Plan A while WW broke contact repeatedly I can say that I set myself up for a certain amount of ridicule. In fact this was the cause of my big disagreement with lemonman AFAIK. I had problems with people who so easily called me a doormat. I don't think that SAA says NC is a requirement for Plan A. I haven't found it anyway. Keep in mind that Plan A and R are very different things. Your WH says he wants to R. I say he is a liar and shouldn't be trusted. But that doesn't mean you still can't Plan A. Look back at your posts and see how things have changed to your favor so dramatically in such a very short time.
You may need to Plan B at some point but Plan B should be used to protect you and not as a strategy to manipulate WH. You can't just say that I am going to Plan A for 13 days and 4 hours and then Plan B right before Thanksgiving or Christmas to make him see what it is like to be alone for the holidays. When you go to Plan B, you had better be prepared for the long haul. It might not be that way but you don't know. Plan B is also a leap of faith but it is not nearly as bad as your fear of it.
I stayed in my Plan A way too long. I have lost all feelings for WW. But then I remind myself love isn't just a feeling and keep going. Again, I am not telling you which way to go. Once you have done Plan A for a certain amount of time, more Plan A doesn't buy you anything. You just want to leave WH with a good lasting impression before you go to Plan B. Remember when he told you he saw changes but didn't believe they were real? If he now knows they are real, he can take that with him to Plan B with no problems.
Because I often work with children & the fact I have three boys, I could easily picture a young, very determined boy working his a.s off trying to do better than the rest. One boy in particular comes to mind. He doesn't have the physical limitations you suffered with but he is a very determined boy. I suspect he has a fairly empty emotional home life & is drawn to adults who seem to have the warmth I suspect his home lacks. He will find any way he can to be with these adults & engage them.
Clearly you have a strong character which has helped you with the marital mess your WW heaped upon you.
Run Todd, run. I mean that in the nicest, most sincere way.
Beth, 2much & stph, I've always found plan B such a difficult thing to want to implement & to find the correct timing. By the time you want the WWS out you've already lost some love for them & the relief one feels from having the head on daily anxiety out of your life feels so good it's hard to find the desire to want to love them again. ex once said to me he thought the formulas (meeting ENs, poja, 15 hours a week together, etc.) presented in MBers seems designed to bring any two people together.
I guess my point is to not want to make the effort for someone who has clearly taken advantage, has hurt you & your family, has been so selfish, on & on, is a natural consequence of their horrible behavior. It takes very strong, determined people to work that hard for someone who has been so undeserving.
I wanted to add that even though I wanted nothing more than to keep my family together & did what I could with a less than ideal situation for recovery, I look back & wonder how I would feel now. Once the fight seemed won could I really love ex, could I ever really trust him, & the biggest factor for me, could I respect him after he did so many things I found ugly.
zzzzzz....did I miss something?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Just kidding Todd...you must know by now that I am easy sell when it comes to the importance of 'attitude'...but you certainly seemed to have had endless challenges in your life to 'test' yours!
Quote
You have gone through a lot of pain and suffering. Just don't lead anyone else down that path too.
Booka....I have the same concerns as Pio....given what you have been saying...if all you're looking for is SF....please be 'upfront' about it!
BTW Pio...how's the heated blanket doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Did larousse ever explain why Superman needed X-ray vision for the Johnson lever? I've lost sleep over that. I wish it could be cleared up.
While on the topic of Superman....anyone know who taught him how to dress?...underwear on top...geeesh... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Well that explains the horrible red boots but how do you explain Superman fashion faux pas of wearing underweare over his clothes?
Larousse....this may heat up the debate that we are one and the same!
Quote
.....I don't think so!
...the man is sticking to the agenda! ....you must be a 'terror' in meetings, Pio...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Luna,
I wish you a very belated but very happy birthday.
Thank you, Beth.
Quote
This weekend I hopefully will have some spare time to find out exactly where on MB I need to post now. I am not in R but am not in plan B either. I truly am not sure where I belong.
....do what you must...you may find that like Dorothy.... the 'long yellow brick road' will take you back here...ehumm.. home! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
The electric blanket is a metaphor for our relationship regarding the A. It touches both of us but she covers it up and pretends it's not there meanwhile anytime I get near it, it makes me hot.
Pio--Explanations will be available this afternoon later on Aisle 3. Your wish is my command. As long as I feel like it, of course! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Talking of daughters you made me glad that I didn't have one! My father would have been waiting for you with a shotgun.
And this illustrates why I had no daughters.
Quote
You must come from good strong stock Todd, your parents must have been so proud of your fighting spirit.
They weren't so proud of me when I initially was fitted with the boots and braces. I pitched a fit. What was so weird is that I hated the boots more than the braces. It is almost as if they tried to make them ugly. I forgot what they call the people who make such contraptions but they should have to run through the same gauntlet as the guy who invented the MRI.
Just kidding Todd...you must know by now that I am easy sell when it comes to the importance of 'attitude'...but you certainly seemed to have had endless challenges in your life to 'test' yours!
Nah, just one or two here and there.
Hey Luna,
So you are going to SF this weekend? I think I mentioned it but just in case, be sure to take the boys to Ripley's Believe it or Not Museum. Lots of fun. Dress for cold weather, in layers. Of course, since you live in Canuckville, you should be ready.
The electric blanket is a metaphor for our relationship regarding the A. It touches both of us but she covers it up and pretends it's not there meanwhile anytime I get near it, it makes me hot.
So, all this time, the electric blanket was not real? Geez. Who are you really, Hemingway? It was as well camoflouged as TOMATS.
Speaking of cold, DD was not prepared for the EXTREME cold in the States.
On one bus trip she said she wore two layers of thermals under her jeans, boots, a thermal undershirt, 3 sweaters, a jacket, a beanie and a scarf and she was STILL cold. Her b/f said he could have picked her up and rolled her down the hill like a little ball.
The electric blanket is a metaphor for our relationship regarding the A.
BTW Pio....you just reminded of a very interesting Italian movie 'IL POSTINO'...that discusses just that...a metaphor....among other things..and poetry in general...when the well-known poet Pablo Neruba befriends a very 'down to earth' Italian letterman....set in the beautiful coastal area off of Naples...in the 40s or 50s, I believe... a very interesting movie if you ever come across it....yeahs!...just looked it up.... done in....1994! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> ...where doooooesss the time go!
...unfortunately....the Italian actor Massino Troisi who plays the letterman SHOULD have had a heart intervention....but put it off until after finishing the film....bad choice...it cost him his life....died right after shooting the film!.....taking the....sacrificing your life for artistic endeavours....to another level! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I vaguely recall having already brought this up....what can I say people....sorry if it's a repeat... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Or is that allegory?
Pio...check out the film....it will set you straight on the issue!
Quote
My name is ToddAC. People call me ToddAC.
That reminds me, Todd....always meant to ask you...now is a good a time as any..... how did you come up with that name?
Quote
be sure to take the boys to Ripley's Believe it or Not Museum.
...Todd...not going with the boys....wouldn't let them miss a week of school....they'll with their dad....I am going to a work-related conference for a couple of days in the Monterey region....and since I land in SF....taking a few 'extra' days for my little old self to enjoy the scenery! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Quote
So, all this time, the electric blanket was not real?
Thanks, Todd...I feel less stupid...I thought I might have been the only one that hadn't gotten it..... I HAD taken it to mean 'literally' a blanket.... although...somewhat figurately nonetheless..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
That reminds me, Todd....always meant to ask you...now is a good a time as any..... how did you come up with that name?
When I was in the Air Force, I belonged to Tactical Air Command, or TAC for short. TAC was taken so I made up a first name to fit.
Okay, the foregoing is not entirely true. I was in the Air Force and did belong to TAC. But I didn't check for TAC and that is not what my name stands for.
Honestly, I had trouble invented a name. Then my middle son called and we talked for a long time. He told me about a friend of his he had met a few months before. His friend was named Todd and he told DS2 that his earliest memory was of his parents holding him underwater in the bathtub. I took the name in his honor.
The AC portion represents my real middle and last names.
My boys are watching Scary Movie 4. Not my cup of tea. My middle boy doesn't seem to be laughing much, I think he doesn't like to see bad things happen to people. Plus, he wants to know where all the jokes originate from. Poor boy, he has a hard time just enjoying without knowing the background story. The oldest & youngest are having a ball.
Horrible story about a boy being held under water by his parents. Was this boys life filled with abuse?
Luna, enjoy your trip. I'm sure you'll miss your kids but do have fun. I could imagine that a few days on my own would be quite nice.
So, who has interesting plans for tonight or tomorrow? Not me.
Horrible story about a boy being held under water by his parents. Was this boys life filled with abuse?
....uhmmm....wondering the same thing, Nams...but didn't want to ask.... just watched a 'report' on abuse....think I had my 'fill'....waashhhh!
Quote
Luna, enjoy your trip. I'm sure you'll miss your kids but do have fun. I could imagine that a few days on my own would be quite nice.
I will...I will....I will.....yes, I can...
I am being quite agreeable, don't you think, Nams? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Quote
So, who has interesting plans for tonight or tomorrow? Not me.
....well....I don't want to rub it in...but... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Nams...what's up?....I would think that.... a 'sleeve' should have at least a 'couple' of men <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...if only for 'comparison' purposes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
No. The electric blanket is very real. Maybe it is symbolism.
I have seen "il postino" two or three times. I understood it even though it was in Italian. Then I decided to try to see it in English so I got "The Postman Always Rings Twice" thinking it was the same thing. I was wrong. That was always a problem going to Blockbuster video in Venezuela - all the movie titles are translated into Spanish but they aren't translated - they are completely changed. So it was nearly impossible (needle in a haystack) to fnd any movie I wanted. Well, that and 90% of the videos were Betamax. I thought Betamax disappeared. I found out they just all went to Venezuela to Blockbuster video. Under Siege = "Máximo Riesgo", for example. WW and I used to laugh for hours over the Spanish titles of US movies.
I forgot to mention. Mama hamster has been very mean to the two baby hamsters. I can't really call them babies any more. They eat real food now and can climb. They grow so fast. I still remember them as my little baby hamsters. I'm sad. Anyway, Mama has been a real shrew. I thought it was just post partum depression. I've bee lacing her water with valium but to no effect.
Last night I was putting water in the cage and saw something - a brand new baby hamster. I didn't realize she could pump them out so fast. I need to do some hamster research today. But I thought "there can't just be one baby hamster" so I dug around and have found at least five. So we mived the two "babies" over to the other cage with chuchito II who has been living the bachelow life in his own pad. He is none to happy about having room mates.
Poor mom looks frazzled. Dad is no help. He just sleeps all day and ignores the children when they cry. It seems there is only one thing he does besides sleep. Not a bad life really.
Problem is now I kind of admire the little guy. The other problem is we don't know what the sexes of the offspring are. WW told DD1 last night that she had to start selling/giving away some of the hamsters. DD1 agreed to sell the ones that weren't cute. This should be interesting.
My daughter went to PetsMart - a chain pet supply place - and bought a female hamster from the cage fo female hamsters. She took it to her dad's. A few days later, she had a total of 7 hamsters. Really was a good investment. Anyway, when the babies got big enough, she took them back to PetsMart and gave them to the store.
I've done a little bit of research on hamsters this AM. Turns out they only stay pregnant for about 2 weeks - not 9 months as I had assumed. This is a problem. On the plus side I found out that if they don't get enough food, they are cannabalistic and eat their young. This may explain why we only got two from the first litter (DD's never feed the hamsters). So now it is just a matter of experimentation to see how much I have to limit their food intake to keep the head count down to a reasonable number. Ideally I would like to achieve zero population growth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well you do have all that free time and you and nams have been discussing art. Give it a shot. You will need a really sharp pencil though as those things are pretty tiny. Of course I do have the AC down pretty low. Think that might make a difference?
Have a great trip Luna, even though you're already gone.
{{{{{2much}}}}} share what you want when you can. My warmest thoughts are coming to you.
Todd, are you against the use use sleep aids or do you get enough sleep at other times during your day? When I was in the midst of the crazy marital mess I went through & I was unable to sleep I couldn't wait to get Ambien. For me, not getting enough sleep made me more depressed, unable to think clearly or function well. Sleep was a reprieve.
Pio, sounds like you have a healthy approach to hamster family planning. You might also want to consider bringing in snakes should the adult hamsters have their fill of eating their young.
Pio, about 6 years ago, my eldest daughter burst into tears one night because she'd done a terrible thing. Turned out she had smuggled two 'male' hamsters home and was keeping them in a shoebox in her wardrobe. Thus began an epic saga of incest, polygamy and cannabalism. Thankfully a good friend of mine was home-schooling and took a load for a science project. We had a whole bathroom full of cages as we tried to separate male from female and in the end they just had to have their own cages. We had a couple of escape episodes where two would end up together and the whole cycle would begin again. The last hamster died about a month ago. I was thrilled.
They stink. They make loads of noise at night. They are vile little rodents. They are worth breeding only if you have a friend with a pet snake. Good luck trying to sex them. I'm convinced they swing both ways! TT
LMAO. I have a feeling that they are serious. What really struck me as I read the article was picturing Pio looking for hamster testicles. But then again, I am not at all certain that he knows what testicles look like...
There's a discussion at the other site about transparency. A BS posted that after her WH agreed to transparency, he demanded that the BS also become transparent. The BS is not against transparency per se, but communicates/vents with female friends about the A and R process. Overwhelmingly, the advice is for the BS to become transparent for a variety of reasons.
Todd, are you against the use use sleep aids or do you get enough sleep at other times during your day? When I was in the midst of the crazy marital mess I went through & I was unable to sleep I couldn't wait to get Ambien. For me, not getting enough sleep made me more depressed, unable to think clearly or function well. Sleep was a reprieve.
Nams, here goes my spotty memory again but I think I talked to one of my docs about sleep aids. He said that docs are not really sure of the effect that sleep aids have on the brain and would not give me a script. He suggested the usual BS: take a warm bath, drink milk, don’t watch television an hour before bedtime, read, etc.
I guess you didn't see my solution for the hamster noise. I may patent it. I learned that hamsters are night feeders so, at first I had DD1 draw a nice picture of the sun and sky and I put it behind their cage with a flashlight at night. Then I put a dark sheet over the cage during the day. I tried to fool them that day was night and night was day. I'm really not sure why that didn't work but those little guys are smarter than you give em credit for. So I went high tech and have never looked back.
My heart goes out to you. If you are anything like me you are enjoying the tranquility of having H out of the house and a respite from always wondering what they are doing or in my case I guess that should be "whom"
How are your children handling their dad being gone? I think mine are enjoying the lack of tension in the home and of course he is spoiling them like a Disneyland dad. They are starting to drop not so subtle hints that he has been gone long enough!
Guess there are no easy answers. I hope you are okay and if you ever want to chat I am always available.
Pio,
Somehow I think all your hamsters will be too cute to part with.
Todd,
Great web site link, I'm still laughing. What is happening with you these days? Have you fully recovered from your flu? How are your boys? Any WW news?
Ooops sorry time got away, have to run and get my son. I will catch up with everyone else later.
Great web site link, I'm still laughing. What is happening with you these days? Have you fully recovered from your flu? How are your boys? Any WW news?
Hi Beth,
Fully recovered from the flu and the sleepiness that followed. Boys are great. DS3 basically spent the weekend with me so that was great.
I did get a call from WW yesterday, I believe. She begged me to take her back. I calmly asked her was she ready to be honest about her A. She blew up and said she didn't have an A. It is the strangest thing: we can discuss her affair by talking about her hopping in bed with OM, etc., but she will not overtly admit to the A. She did confess in January but withdrew her confession after exposure. Reputation mitigation I suppose.
She also told me that I need to see an IC. I told her she needed to as well but she denies it. What has happened has happened. It is time for me to "put it behind me" and "move on". If I had a nickel for everytime she has said that.... I cannot even get as far as issues like NC with OM, transparency, etc.
She apparently has been persuaded to believe that if she continues to deny her A, everything will be fine. It will not. I am giving her to the first of the year and then I file.
Why are you waiting till then Todd? You don't assume time will hit her with a clue stick do you?
No BigK, no clues for her. I will wait until first of the year because I don't want to start D proceedings during year end holidays. It is too emotional for DS3 as it is.
Too bad with the sleep aids Todd. I NEED my sleep.
Let's see, the transparency issue. Could be a way for her WWH to really get a view of the destruction he's caused. OTOH venting could be construed as LBing...Perhaps she can tell him what he will see, let him look, he may decide he doesn't want to read about how his behavior has caused such pain. Yeah, let him read what he wants, seems fair.
Yes I remember Sam Kinison. I believe he died quite young. Maybe I am wrong but for some reason I thought he was originally from Oklahoma. Maybe I am confusing him with Gaylord Sartain.
BTW, the term "hung like a hamster" now has meaning for me.
Sam was young. I recall that he had just been married and he and his bride were on their way to LV for their honeymoon. Their car was hit by a drunk driver. Sam was not wearing his seat belt and was killed on impact. His bridge survived.
A bit of trivia. Sam and Kim Basinger were born on the same day. Not sure where he was from but Kim Basinger was born and raised in the music capital of the world, Athens, Ga.
Born on December 8th, 1953 in Yakima, Washington, Sam Kinison's beginnings were fairly innocent. His father was a Pentacostal preacher, and the family lived in a church in Peoria, Illinois. Sam and his brothers followed in their father's footsteps by touring churches across the Bible Belt and earning a decent living. But that wasn't enough for Sam. As his preachings became increasingly too much for the average churchgoer, he took his thoughts and ideas to comedy clubs.
Since I have totally given up on larousse explaining about the X-ray vision and the Johnson lever, can someone please explain what the heck a "clue stick" is? Obviously Aussie talk.
Oops - just googled it. I guess it is metaphorical. Don't even want to go there.
WH choses to remain WH although denies any WH behaviors. States he is "moving toward separation"...will remain out of our home for at least the next 6 weeks...I must agree with his explanation although don't believe it is why he is remaining outside the home...states it is unfair to kids now that he is out to come back without certainty of wanting M just to leave again later. I was in total agreement and laid down the conditions he would need to meet if he ever decided he wanted to return...after that he said we were done, blew up, then apologized and spent time with kids, ate dinner and actually asked me to do some of his laundry!!!
I explained I wanted nothing to do with him, and pretty much outlined plan B except I have no mediary to assist with kid coordination so I requested electronic comm for that. I instructed the kids that mom did not want to speak to dad on the phone so not to offer it to dad.
Initially the kids had been fine with WH being gone. No complaints, no asking for him etc. My DS has been the only one to show signs of despair re: his absence. Last night my girls broke down and sobbed not specifically missing their dad but b/c of our sitch there will be many changes that were not planned for or anticipated including us relocating in the summer. My kids do not want to move but DD1 sobbed that she just wanted to move now and get it over with so it wouldn't hurt so much in the meantime.
I am so angry to have to see what my kids are going through. I am also on fire that I will have to miss out on pieces of Holidays so that they can spend some with their dad. Why should we be punished b/c of his crap choices? I am taking them out of state for Turkey day to spend time with relatives. Coincidently it is WH bday same day...next week is our anniversary...what a lovely reminder...my dog managed to chew up my wedding shoes...irony...I had dumped the bin with wedding shoes last week when I packed WH belongings and sent him on his way.
Life, quite an adventure.
Beth, I believe our kids are going through the same stage...sorry for both of us but I think the key is that they go off of our attitude and behavior for the most part. I have reinforced and been consistent that their Dad loves them, what is happening is not their fault, their dad is confused about his life right now, no matter what happens I will be with them to take care of them, love them and provide for them. I consistently offer them contact via phone to say good morning and good night to WH if they want to...often they do not but at least the option is always available. WH visits and spends more time with them now then in the past year. It appears his goal is cordial co-parenting for him without the responsibility of being a parent.
I cleared up the deal about responsibilities of a parent which I think put the icing on the cake but I wasn't about to let him think that if he did decides to return that he would be returning to cake eat in all categories.
I am very doubtful that this will end in anything but D, however I am not planning on filing until spring for a variety of reasons.
Tons of work all due today that I must complete...sorry to vent and run but will return tonight.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers...it was a LONG day.
The dog is sending you a very clear message <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I'm so sorry for your children. They didn't ask for any of this and I'm sure they are afraid because they have no idea what it all means. Life as they knew it is gone. Remind them that they can always rely on you and that WH is still their father and that you both love them and that none of this was their fault. They need extra care and attention right now so always be there to reassure them even if they don't seem to need it. I understand the anger. I never seemed to get too upset about things WW did to me but whenever I saw the DDs cry, I could hev ripped her head off (and often did verbally). Nobody messes with the kids! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Yes, it's undoubtedly the kids who suffer the most. Well, once you get over his WW behavior.
My youngest had the hardest time. We had many tearful conversations. With time though the boys have seen ex & I both love them & will care for them. I remember my therapist saying the first things kids want to know is how their lives will change.
None of this can be rushed. You can only reassure them on a daily basis that you love them & will care for them. They want to feel safe & loved & it sounds like you're doing that for them.
Here’s a rundown of the weekend and some thoughts and responses.
My roommate is CH. CH and I have an old friend BT. CH, BT, and I went to a bra/restaurant Friday evening for happy hour and had a good time. We spent a lot of the time talking to a girl from Brazil who was recently divorces and gain some insight to women’s perceptions of dating divorced men. CH went home early and BT and I went to another bar. I had one beer there and went home at a vey reasonable time. Home is CH’s house.
Saturday I opened a new checking account and moved what was left in our joint savings account to the new checking account. I intend to close the old checking (joint) account after I can get my payroll ACH moved to the new account. I then went to my STBX-house and started loading up my tools. STBXW does not appear to be happy and I would hazard a guess that she is depressed. I got over there about 10:35 and STBXW had not showered and was still in her bathrobe. She expressed some concerns about post divorce life for DD13. I told her to lighten up and not worry about it. She has a very sideways-way of conversing that I find very annoying. She is very insecure at this point.
I got some packing done and then took DD13 out to lunch. We had a good conversation and I told her not to worry as I would be taking care of her when she was with me. I have a 1999 ford Explorer and filled it up to where I couldn’t see out of the side windows. I also collected some more clothes and some odds and ends. I took this all back to CH’s house and unloaded. I ended up cooking dinner for CH and then we got ready to go to our favorite bar. BT met us there later. We met many women and I gave my card to two of them. This was a change of philosophy for me in that I don’t want their phone numbers and instead want them to call me if they are interested. We stayed until close (01:00) and went home.
I slept very well and got up at 07:45 on Sunday. I did some laundry and CH invited me to go to his church. I had not been to church in almost 30 years and things have changed. We went to what CH called a contemporary church, I might call it non-traditional. It was a very positive experience and I was moved at one point and almost required a Kleenex. I enjoyed the experience and told CH I would go back. After church, I showed CH the house that I am interested in. We then went home and I went out for lunch. After lunch, I worked out and then did some light grocery shopping. I talked to a friend in Michigan and then talked to my sister who I haven’t seen or talked to in quite a while. I will be joining her family for Thanksgiving. She requested that DD13 attend as well and I will float this idea with STBXW. I had a nice salad for dinner. One of CH’s girlfriends came over and I had a nice chat with her. She has a friend who is a real estate agent so I asked CH’s girlfriend to contact her friend for me. The friend was described to me as being hot, single, and 34. I of course have no problem with that. They went out for dinner and I did some more laundry, watched TV, and called my mom. The came home later and we talked again. They went to have some SF, so I wrapped it up and decided to go to bed early. I slept fairly well but was up for about an hour in the middle of the night.
I had a nice weekend. There were no downer moments. I am on an upswing for the last several days. I am starting to have some clarity about what was and what is. I feel that STBXW for years didn’t allow me to be me. When I am me, people respond to it in a positive fashion.
I have no pain at the moment. I have moved on from it. If STBXW begged me to come back, I would say no. I am ready to move on and I’m ready to date. I don’t want anything serious, I want to have fun and keep it light. Some meaningful SF would be nice. My ENs are ranked thusly:
1. Affection. 2. SF. 3. Admiration
I want to get the divorce over ASAP. I want to buy a house and get moving. I am ready for some new experiences. I am being cautious and CH has been giving me some great advice. I’m not going to jump into anything serious as I’m not ready for that. I could love again, but not now. I feel stronger every day and happier as well. I have settled into what is the start of a new life.
booka, the positive attitude is great, but YIKES! slow down! Your W filed for D what...last week?
You said... You're not going to "jump into anything serious" but you "want meaningful SF." What the he!! does that mean? If I'm not mistaken "meaningful" sex is between people in a meaningful relationship which generally means a serious relationship. Otherwise it's just physical, get your jollies sex. Not wrong but empty.
Look, cleary you want sex, sheesh, join the club. However, unless you're willing to have sex with just anyone who's willing don't expect meaningful sex. I think you're looking more for fun sex, sex without strings, great, wonderful intimate sex...without the intimacy. It doesn't work like that sweetums.
Your could be new sex partner is 34 you're 47. I get the flattery in that but what else?
No disrespect intended. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I was sitting here pondering a reply for Booka but you said it all very eloquently so I will just ditto you on your comments. Have you come to any decision about a career change?
I am also considering a life style change. My stores are doing well but it was never what I wanted to do in life. Think I am just searching at the moment though, so will wait on making any decision until my M is sorted out.
Booka and all
Guess your post Booka brings up a question I have been thinking about though. I am torn on the subject of going on a date before we D. Yes, I have been invited out but refused. Trouble is I feel like I have lost a couple of years as it is and I certainly am not getting any younger. I also feel that my H broke our marriage vows and doesn't give a hoot so are they still a binding? Can we have a round table discussion on this? I am undecided at this point as I always keep my word and I guess would still feel like I am breaking it. I've forgotten what sex is anyway and I am sure it is over rated........
2Much,
I am so sorry you had such an emotional weeekend, I know how exhausting it is. You sound like a wonderful mother and I am sure your children will be fine. It is very hard on them though and I could actually slowly kill my H for the pain he inflicted on my boys. I can live with my pain but their pain causes me great agony. How old are your children? Do you know where and when you will be moving yet?
BigK,
Nice to hear from you. I'm great and looking forward to the holidays with a relish. I refuse to let anyone or anything spoil them on us, even if it means H is included. How have you been?
Todd,
Were you suggesting my comment was a little Sam Kinisonish? I guess it was but it was also honest. lol Now and then my anger at my H gets the better of me and I forget to be a lady. Oh well, the secret is out now.
Would you still consider R if your WW would meet your needs and requirements? I go to IC but my H has refused and also refuses MC. That is one requirement I have demanded and he is considering it. I also demand NC of course, but even if he agrees how will I ever trust him again? Trust is my IC issue for this week. I'm glad you had such a great time with you son, they make everything worth while.
Pio,
Are you getting anywhere near to an update on your M ? I hope it is going well for you.
I've had a very busy weekend and two days off work catching up with DD. It's been great.
Today, though, I spent all day in the garden. Just as well we don't have "seeing" MB as I couldn't look scruffier if I tried. Tired but happy though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So you posted that you went to a "bra/restaurant". Is that like a "gentlemen's club"? Maybe you call them different things up there. Look I know 2regret said that none of us is getting any younger but I don't think 2 more weeks until your "30 day" divorce is over will hurt you that much.
As I said before, SF is between two people. It may mean nothing to you but it might to your partner. If all you want is SF (and that is pretty clear from your 3 years of posting on the EN forum), just be straight with your partner. You remind me of that line from "Rhinestone" - "You're so horny, the crack of dawn ain't safe". If meaningless SF is all you want, go hire a professional. It will save you money.
It is clear that SF means a lot to you. It is also clear that STBXW has not given it to you in years in any great quantity. You sound like a kid in a candy store. BTW, meeting women in bars - is that the kind of woman you want to be with? The kind that picks up guys in bars? Maybe it is. Dunno.
You also realize, of course, that if you buy a house, you will no longer be able to hit on "hot" realtors.
nams,
I have decided to try pottery but since I'm not sure I'll like it, I am on the low budget approach. I turned my drill press upside-down and mounted a piece of scrap plywood on the chuck. The lowest speed I can get is about 2000 RPM and I am having trouble keeping the clay off the walls. It is a really messy hobby. I have an old microwave oven that I plan to use for firing the finished work but it is only 1800 watts. Is that enough power?
As far as my update, maybe I'm not quite ready just yet. Yesterday was a bad day and I ended it by breaking my little toe so sleeping was quite difficult too. Let's just say that R will take a long time and that I have little to no feelings for WW at the moment. I can generally live with that but we had an "event" two days ago that really set me off. The D talk came up again (by me) but WW refuses and says she won't give up the fight.
What is with men and Brazilian girls? OK, I know...
Hi all! I could not post for a while but I've been reading and wishing you all the best.
I know I was not missed ... but I missed posting here. Sometimes it's just hard to find time/ energy/ courage to post.
Am I in recovery yet? I feel lots of anger towards WH. He has had NC since letter was sent. He's been very present with kids and we've been trying reasonably to meet ENs of each other. He is looking for a job, so I guess sometimes he's just not all that happy. But I don't know if I care about him like before. Everything (and I mean everything) reminds of A. Will it ever end? I guess I am in a love/hate relationship, though I never believed they really existed!
I think you and I are going through about the same thing. I know what you mean about love/hate. Yesterday I was begging for a divorce and now I am back to "happy" recovery. It is just weird.
I don't know about men and Brazilian women. I certainly have my opinion. But, in booka's case and based on his last post, I'm not sure nationality makes all that much difference. The operative word is "women". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It's just that BraSilian girls are really ...??? nice? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> My WH loves to tell his friends that he pick me from a catalogue. How disrespectful is that!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Estrela - this thread just moves so damn fast - you go away for a week and just get time to skim and whammo you don't have a clue what is happening. I have missed you and everyone.
Beth - Thanks for your kind words - I am doing very well thanks. IMO if you are not divorced you should not date. That would be considered by most on MB as an affair. In Fact there is a school of thought that says you should remain single 1 year for every 5 years of marriage before you are ready for a new relationship.
I sympathise with all of you who are on a SF diet. With no deference to Techie, SF is my #1 need so I understand where all of you are coming (or not) from.
I will say my WW is trying. What I am finding out is that she still doesn't seem to pressing any of the right EN buttons. She is putting out the effort and it's not like I'm trying to be difficult. I just keep asking myself am I happier with her here or when she was in Mexico. The answer is when she was in Mexico. I haven't gotten any further than that. She isn't trying to make me miserable - but she's doing it.
We had an "event". Months ago we gave an exercise machine to our neighbor because I couldn't add enough weight to it for it to be useful to me but WW really liked it. Neighbor is divorcing and moving to bachelor's quarters here on camp and needs to "downsize" his possessions. So he asked if I wanted the machine back. Since WW really likes it, I asked her. She asked why he couldn't just take it with him to his new place. I told her that bachelor's quarters were smaller and it might not fit. She said bachelor's quarters came in all sizes
[aside: WW used to carry on her A with pool boy in a friend's (of pool boy) bachelor quarters AFAIK]
I said I had not been in any bachelor's quarters and asked why she would know about all the different types and how many she had actually been in since I only knew of one.
Anyway, it just got worse and worse and worse.
She said it was my fault for getting angry about her comment. I said it was apparently my fault she had the A and it was my fault I got angry about her A so obviously everything was my fault. I said I was not angry about the comment - I was angry about the A. I said she was selfish in having the A and she was selfish in expecting me to pretend all was well and good when she decided to return to the M. I was never given any choice in any of this even now.
I could go on but don't need to. I think she did a lot to wait the situation out and try to calm me down and she seems to be taking a long-term view to recovery.
But there are times when I still hate her and, when I don't I feel very little at all. I am in more of an indifference/hate relationship.
Beth... if your M is over except for the technical stuff.... I would say start dating if you want... just hold off on the sex for a while. Be fair to whomever you date... but really, if the is NO chance at you getting back with your WH... your life does not need to be put on hold for a legal process. Just MHO.
I agree that dating only after D is the way to go. 1 for 5 though seems harsh.
I was reading steph's post and wondering why her Plan B has to be put in place so quickly?
I had not had a chance for a real Plan B. I left for Brasil for 2 weeks when A was still on. When I came back WH told me he wanted to stay with me and work on M. So I guess it did help to be away.
I would say not. It still gives me tremendous pain and it does not seem to be running a parallel course with the rest of my toes. It is running its own direction. It gives me no pleasure and I wish it were gone.
Beth... if your M is over except for the technical stuff.... I would say start dating if you want... just hold off on the sex for a while. Be fair to whomever you date... but really, if the is NO chance at you getting back with your WH... your life does not need to be put on hold for a legal process. Just MHO.
I will try and find the Harley quote I alluded to. I am not making the 1 year for 5 up. Beth you are nowhere near ready emotionally for a new relationship at this point.
witheringly? Okay, for the most part I generally try to ignore you but now I'm really mad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> there is nothing witheringly...withering...withering(ly?) about my best effort! AND WHY CAN'T YOU CHOOSE A WORD I CAN CONJUGATE!!!!
Here if you are LEGALLY separated you may as well be divorced. All the same rules apply as divorce and many people date AND live together whilst legally separated.
I know that BigK. LEGALLY separated here, as I said before, is a very binding arrangement. It's a whole different ball game from just being "separated".
G-Day! Just knew you would have an opinion for me! I actually did say that I refused the offer to go out on a date. I know that I am not ready but I wanted TKO to have a discussion on the matter of waiting or not for D. I haven't quite decided where I stand yet. I'm glad the discussion has begun. Thanks!!!
My son broke his toe and when I took him to the ER room all they did was tape the broken toe to the toe next to it. It gives it some support and keeps it straight. Also ice and elevate. Hope that helps a bit. Wish I could as easily help with your R but I don't have any successful experiences in that field.
Love your posting name, it's one of the motto's I live by now. Also, thank you for replying to my question. I really hadn't given the matter any thought until I was surprised by an invitation for dinner. I shuddered when I read BigK's post about waiting a year for every 5. My goodness that is over four years I'd have to wait. I will have to give this a lot of thought and prayer.
You need to read your post over and over again. You are a troubled man and need to examine your life and yourself. Your post is offensive on so many levels.
If you could find the article for me that would be great. But I'm not too sure I will be signing up for that school of thought!
I've been married 21 years - It's over two already since I have enjoyed a man. I'm only 40 not 80! You are suggesting I wait another 4 years! I'm even jealous of the hamsters. Have some pity...
Todd,
I don't think Pio mentioned how he broke his toe. I bet it will be a good story though.
No, you are not in a minority at all. His latest post really pissed me off. As far as I am concerned, if he wants to continue posting on TKO, he needs to get real. Of course, it is not my thread, but I cannot tolerate that kind of nonsense.
Being married for 24 years I understand. I doubt I could wait 5 years either but now is definitely too soon by at least 12 months I would say. And you ARE still Legally married.
I mean lets face it - you would be attracted to a tree at the moment if it waved at you. You are not in an emotionally healthy place IMO. 12 months minimum post divorce would be my thoughts.
Of course, it is not my thread, but I cannot tolerate that kind of nonsense.
Have we ever been able to decide whose thread it is anyway? last I heard, larousse decided it was hers and wasn't open to any discussion about the matter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Booka's posts are a reason I have been doing a bit more skimming and a little less posting here.
So you've been posting in a witheringish effort, eh? Try to impress ME with all your big words.
BTW, in some southern states dating your sister/cousin before you are divorced isn't even illegal.
Todd,
With my 2000 rpm minimum speed, I have discovered that getting the center of mass of the clay correctly positioned is extremely important. This is definitely a learning experience. At first I didn't have clay so experimented with Playdoh. It just flew right off. It doesn't really stick to much of anything except clothes and ceilings.
Hey I got to watch EDtv last night. I haven't seen it in years and had been hoping to see it again. I had forgotten what it was really about. What I saw was the entire USA rooting (excuse me - cheering) for Ed to get involved with his brother's girlfriend. So everyone wanted her to cheat on her boyfriend and Ed to betray his brother.
Then we find out Mom dumped Dad because of an A and, when Dad shows up, Mom cheats on OM with Dad (and Dad dies of course). So the whole movie was about infidelity and the entire USA national TV audience loving every bit of it. Funny I didn't remember that from the first time I saw it.
I have seen that before about the toe and it is what I told WW in the words I was able to squeak out between my tears and anguished crying. There isn't really much you can do for a little toe AFAIK. WW is having a luncheon for 10 Latinas today at the house and spent all day yesterday cooking. Of course she wants the yard to look nice and we had recently expanded the garden so I have been digging holes in gravel all week.
Keep in mind we live in the desert. The yards are watered but the waste areas around the houses are covered in gravel to minimize maintenance. These houses have been here since about 1983 and the gravel, having been replaced over the years, is now about 3 feet thick. So WW had a truckload of sand brought in and dumped it over the gravel. The sand is about 4 inches thick. It looks great but to plant anything, you have to dig. If you have never dug in gravel (settled with years of sand and dirt), I can tell you that it is extremely difficult to do. I dug approx 30 holes in the gravel to plant 30 cacti (cactusesesus?). WW just kept buying more cacti so I dug more holes. Then I went yesterday to the Jebels to get really big rocks to accent her garden. I fell yesterday in a sand dune while carrying a rock and hurt my leg and scrapped up my arm. Let's keep in perspective that I hate gardening. I get back and she has had yet more sand delivered. I ntice that the trees need pruning so I do that so her yard will look nice all the while she is in cooking. Did you know you can make baking powder from baking soda? That saved me a trip to the store.
So I did homework for DD1 after I picked her up from art class. I got them ready for bed and in bed. WW still in the kitchen. DD1 has bad cough and is vomiting so I get out of bed to take care of her because WW is still in the kitchen. I go downstairs to get her some water. WW asks what is wrong with DD1. I tell her. She says "oh". I turn back around to go up the stairs and four of my toes go on one side of a wooden trunk that WW has placed decoratively at the base of the stairs and my little toe decides to take the road less traveled. WW comes out to see what is wrong. She assesses the situation and goes back to cooking. I crawl up the stairs and give water to DD1. DD2 is sound asleep in her bed with her arm around her library book that WW had promised to read to her before she went to bed. I get DD1 to bed and crawl back to my bed and get in and discover that our sheets suddenly weigh 30 lbs when they weren't nearly so heavy hours earlier. Maybe it is more than 30 lbs because I can't understand the tremendous pressure they are able to exert on my throbbing foot. I do learn that there is absolutely no way I can position my body to prevent this pulsating pain from emanating from my foot. At some point, WW came to bed.
About the gardening, all the while I am working even in the moonlight with nothing but a drop light to illuminate the ground I am working on, I am telling myself that this is all so that WW can show off her garden to her friends for her perfect Brie luncheon that I won't get to sample one morsel from and I am wondering what is wrong with this picture. I cancelled golf both days this last weekend so I could work on that garden. I have spent the last 5 days NOT meeting my EN's.
Pio. sounds like you need a hobby, other than G's gardening, to keep D talk from flying out of your mouth. Though it sounds like you've done everything right regarding your "wheel", pottery just may be too frustrating for you at this point. After all, with clay control is something of an illusion. You & the clay work together, you can't push it past its limits without it falling apart & you're left with a lump.
Not everyone can forgive an affair & the behavior surrounding that & move on into a loving relationship. That doesn't make you wrong or bad, just human. While I agree love is a verb, feelings need to accompany the actions & I'll bet sometimes the damage done has been too much for that to happen despite our best efforts. If the other person doesn't do their share, & more, doesn't that leave resentment?
Sounds like you've been meeting G's ENs very well yet she isn't meeting yours. Perhaps you need to talk about that rather than D with her. Maybe this is why you didn't want to post R stuff, the advice that follows. Tee, hee.
I was married 21 years also so for me the 1 for 5 rule would also mean not dating for more than 4 years. Don't think so. There is a big difference between dating & dating with looking for a new partner in mind.
Emotional health is critical but there are levels of readiness. Being clear you're dating to get out & be with men other than the one you've spent 21 years with is quite different than sizing a date up for a relationship.
My opinion regarding dating before the papers for D are completed & signed vary on what went on in your relationship & for how long. Again, emotional health is critical.
For example, those who have been on the battlefield of infidelity or trying to save their marriage for, say a year or more, have more experience with evaluating the health of their marriage & its chances for survival. They have also been forced to evaluate themselves & their behavior in the process. This is assuming MB types not those with their heads firmly up their ...
From this evaluation & work comes emotional health. Who's to say it will take you 4 plus years to be in a position to spend time with a man on a date? Who's in a better position than you & your could be ex to evaluate the chances for your marriage to continue?
If on the other hand, if you're running out the door looking for sex (booka, are you reading) because you miss a man (booka, in your case a woman) in your bed, well, that's unhealthy.
Just because it's written doesn't mean it applies to all. It may take some people 4years it may take some more, it may also take others less.
Is it fair, is it moral? This is a very personal thing to determine. Mental & emotional health are key as is the effort put into saving your marriage.
In booka's case, sorry to keep using booka as an example here, but it does illustrate a point. It appears he did much work trying to repair his marriage without his WW being on board. This didn't work out for them which isn't much of a surprise, it does take two to save a marriage. But is he ready to date just because the D is finally going ahead? IMO no because he's skip a bunch of necessary steps. He seems to have flipped a switch that goes from married to single without anything in between. People will get hurt & I'm hoping it's not his daughter.
In my case we had one year of fake recovery then a year & a half of separation before the D was final. ex was out of the house for a year & a half. I felt I'd done a lot of the necessary work, both on my own & with a IC to date with the intention of just spending time with someone other than the man I'd been married to for 21 years. Was I relationship material? No. Date material if we were both clear I'm wasn't looking for a relationship? Yes. Am I ready now? I think I'm ready to consider a relationship.
I'm off to gallery sit this morning, doing my share of the cooperative gallery responsibility of keeping the doors open. Very important if we want people to buy our work.
If you would rather I didn't post here, I will gladly cease.
Booka, Please continue to post.....you post things, knowing that people might bash you but you post the truth..........Not something everyone may want to here but it IS the truth and it WILL be a learning experience for you and I as well as others here. If you screw up you admit it.
I've learned from you so please stick around.....Besides, if you mess up then I'll know what not to do <grin>
Its not that I don't want to post the "crisis" things - it is just that they usually are already done and dusted by the time a get any advice so it seems kinds pointless at times. I still post them though to keep a record and so that others may see my example and know what not to do. I could very easily not post those things and avoid the criticism but that's not really fair so I suck up the courage and post knowing full well the whacking I am about to get. Gemela and I are doing very well today. Her luncheon was a spectaculat success. Everyone raved about the food, the house, the garden, the tree house - everything. All her friends think her husband is wonderful and wish their husbands were like hers (that's no joke - they say that). If only they knew how wrong they are...
I agree that there is an in-between emotional state. I am not ready for a serious or even a semi-serious relationship, but I do want to date. I'm in a state between marriage and divorce and I don't consider myself married at this point. There are no legal repercussions in this state for me to date at this point in time.
I saw my therapist last night and he described me as a success story. I feel no pain from my marriage. I am moving on and have started a new life. I'm not like a lot of other people in that I don't hold grudges or obsess about the past. Once I obtain focus on something, I become intense about it. A good example of that is the house that I want to buy. I should be approved for a loan today. I want to get rolling on it. My therapist thought that it was significant that I was really only interested in a new house, i.e. making a new start.
We all might have different viewpoints that are colored by our own experiences and belief-systems. You may not approve of my decisions, but then, I'm not seeking your approval. I am interested in your opinions, though.
Pio, when I typed bra/restaurant, I actually meant bar/restaurant, although I can envisions a marketing campaign for the former.
Beth, I would like a dialog on dating.
Perhaps I should clear up a definition if I haven't before. I view most of my marriage as consisting of meaningless sex. When I speak of meaningful sex, I'm speaking of quality for both partners. As an adult, I don't have to restrict myself from having casual/recreational sex that could be a meaningful experience. There are a lot of people who share my opinion and a lot of them are divorced. It's truly amazing how many divorced people there are and how much of the experience is common.
I toiled away in my mariage for many years. I wasted many years of happiness and fulfilment. Life is short and I'm moving on away from how it was to how it might be.
I promise you that I will not hurt another person during this stage of my life. I have no desire to inflict pain upon anyone as the memory of my own pain is readliy accessible to me.
So far, I have dated no one. I have flirted a bit and have been flirted at. It's interesting to actually have some positive attention directed my way. I will soon be very busy purchasing and setting up a home and my time will be limited for anyone else. I will have time to reflect then when I'm on my own.
On a more general note, I react to positive reinforcment a lot more than to negativity. I've had enough of negativity, I'd rather be happy and moving in a forward direction. Onward and upward...
On a more general note, I react to positive reinforcment a lot more than to negativity. I've had enough of negativity, I'd rather be happy and moving in a forward direction. Onward and upward...
Message received and understood. You are only interested in receiving sunshine enimas.
I hope that you were taking a shot at humor there. If not, maybe you're just a negative person. People have different styles. I prefer to be guided or nudged into the general direction that you desire rather than to be cajoled for doing something wrong in your judgement. I really hate the cliche "Walk a mile in the other man's shoes." I always thought that it was a cop-out attitude, but it can represent empathy. You're half a world away and you're not going to be able to walk a mile in my shoes.
I notice that you have a bible quote in your signature line. What would a Christian do?
I noticed this quite a lot in your thread on the EN forum. I found many examples of where someone would make a comment you found critical and you responded exactly the same way (e.g. "mile in my shoes"). I found many cases where you told posters to change their attitude. And now you are doing it here. Least common denominator dude. If I need to waste my time and go back through your other thread and post that proof here, I'll do that in defense of bigK. Don't worry about erasing any of those posts - I captured your entire thread for posterity.
If you want to get into a dialog on dating, can I ask you the favor not to do it on this particular thread? I think 2regret already stated her opinion. I understand there is even an entire forum dedicated to that subject where I'm sure you would get lots of ideas. But right now many of us here are still trying to keep our heads in the game against overwhelming odds. It is great that you have been able to dust the shoes from off the feet of your marriage in - what - one week? Great success story. But your posts about the women you are meeting are a bit unusual. Heaven forbid anybody make a critical comment about them though.
Maybe I forgot to tell that story. One day I was on my way to visit Pemex from the office and WW (then FWWBNGF - i.e. future wayward wife but now girlfriend) asked me to go by my house to do something (can't remember what). I had been having trouble with the alberquero for some weeks and had told him I needed to talk to him. Anyway, I walk in the door and I here a strange noise (and a lot of it) upstairs and as I walk in I see movement from the corner of my eye as someone comes bolting down the stairs, reaches the middle landing, jumps the railing and lands on the floor. My brief glimpes of the guy makes me think it is my alberquero because they have similar appearance. The thought that goes through my mind is "oh good - the alberquero is here - I need to talk to him". I never occurs to me that the alberquero would have no reason to be inside my house.
I am not sure what my next thought was. I do know that I started running after the guy. He starts running too toward the back door. I am running as hard as I can. He reaches the kitchen door and it is locked. I am getting closer. He struggles with the lock. I am almost there. He turns around to see where I am but still fights the lock. I see his face. My hand is 2 cm's from the back of his neck when the door suddenly comes open and he is out in a flash. He jumps off the back wall and runs across the golf course. I stop running because I think there may be more people inside the house still and I walk back to look. I call FWWBNGF at the office who calls the police. I don't remember what all happened after that. I do remember a pickup truck full of police with shotguns showed up and they went to look for the guy. When they asked me for a description of the thief, I told them his most distinguishing feature was that his eyes where big and round and were about 4 inches in diameter. When I almost had him and he turned around, that's what I saw. I have only ever since seen eyes that big in cartoons.
That afternoon I had my welder come over and he installed rejas on every window and door and built a really nasty fence along the backyard.
Is uncredible a word? I'm still trying to look up disingenus [sic?] but it has too many vowels and I have trouble with the spelling. Regardless, I will continue with my witheringly witheringish attempt to look up the word.
My son broke his toe and when I took him to the ER room all they did was tape the broken toe to the toe next to it. It gives it some support and keeps it straight. Also ice and elevate. Hope that helps a bit.
Have a friend who taped her own toe after breaking it. Almost ended up having to have surgery because she got the angle of the toe wrong and it affected some other bones in her foot.
My orthopaedist recommends hard-soled shoes if you injure your toes. The provide more support for the foot. Don't wear soft soled shoes.
Regardless, I will continue with my witheringly witheringish attempt to look up the word.
Withering maybe? You know, like "Withering Heights". I think it is a book. Oh, wait, maybe it is "Wuthering Heights". What does wuthering mean? For that matter, what does withering mean? They are probably both metaphors for something or another. Can you see why I hate metaphors? And, no, I never won a spelling bee. That was/is my other weakness in addition to reading comprehension. I remember being in a spelling be in the fifth grade. I was out on the third round. Alfabet. Yeah, that is exactly how I spelled it. Susan Smith won. Now that girl could spell.
To go on a tangent here, why do we need metaphors? I mean, think about it. In the Italian flick, "Swept Away", why couldn't an actor, or announcer come on and say that there are power shifts in a relationship and the power shifts depending on the circumstances? And, instead of "The Great Gatsby" hiding the message of......hey, wait, I do not know what TGG was about. But you get the idea. Take one sheet of paper and write down the point. No books to buy, no time to waste. And it would save so many trees. Wouldn't that in turn help global warming?
First of all, didn't we decide a few months ago that burning trees would actually PREVENT global warming according to your theoretical model of the planet? Now you are changing your story. You might as well be a Republican.
WH, TGG, etc. are all necessary because we humans are incapable of saying what we really mean. The metaphor is a safety valve - "Oh, I'm sorry you are upset but you obviously misinterpreted my meaning. When I said you were big boned, I didn't mean FAT".
FWIW, the Mexican solution to any problem (and I'm sure larousse will back me up on this) is to massage it with Vick's Vap-O-Rub. Last night WW suggested she massage my broken toe with Vap-O-Rub. I replied "are you freaking insane?!?!?!?"
the Mexican solution to any problem (and I'm sure larousse will back me up on this) is to massage it with Vick's Vap-O-Rub. Last night WW suggested she massage my broken toe with Vap-O-Rub.
That and chamomile tea.
I guess there is an association of Vick's to the Tiger balm. For muscle's inflamation we also use some cow balsam for mastitis. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Take one sheet of paper and write down the point. No books to buy, no time to waste. And it would save so many trees. Wouldn't that in turn help global warming?
[color:"green"] The logic is impecable. End of literature, end of global warming. Genius. [/color]
I know for a fact that my laptop is three pounds heavier than when I bought it. It has an 80 GB HD and, when it was braind new, the HD had nothing but 000000000000000000000.....'s.
Since I have loaded a bunch of software on it, it is now full of 11111111111111111111...'s with a few zeros still remaining. If I can count the 1's and, since I already know the weight difference, I should be able to calculate the mass of a "1" with reasonable accuracy.
At the other site, there is a thread that asks, if you could choose your dream job, what would it be? Without even thinking, I said a fireman and a cowboy.
But then I thought about it: I thought of all the usual jokes that guys answer with: porn star, football player,etc. I remembered talking to a guy who drove a delivery van for a florist. He went on and on how much he loved his job. I asked him why. He replied: do you have any idea what it feels like to ring a doorbell with flowers in your hand, and see the biggest smile on the woman's face who answers? I have been delivering flowers for eighteen years and I have not gotten tired ot it. I love the sensation of seeing so many women happy.
So, that's it for me: a delivery guy for a florist.
Finally got through all my deadlines and have a deliciously long break to enjoy kids, do home improvements before putting house for sale in spring and having some quality "me" time
Of course, as timing always is a challenge, today is the first day without a million deadlines...DS is ill with 102 fever and general flu misery...I am hopwing that it doesn't spread like the plague between DDs and myself since I have big plans for kid fun in the coming weeks:)
Life without WH is blissful at times, overall a huge improvement on my psyche and occassionally sad
My kids are having a hard time. I got a great book from the library on healing the hurt for children who experience loss...there is a website/foundation called RAINBOWS that is dedicated to helping children through loss, crisis and grief. I'll post the link later when I have more time...I have already found it enormously helpful. DS sobbed and verbalized his feelings and fears and said he feels like dad died...not b/c of his amount of contact with him b/c that has actually improved...it is the concept of him being gone that has caused all the grief
I forgot to mention my anger...comes in spurts...I cried with DS and told him what I was afraid of and that I too felt like it wasn't fair but that we would work together to make the best of things. He seemed less distraught after seeing my same reaction...
On a lighter note we are preparing for the Holidays and I am going to be painting my downstairs before we decorate for Christmas. The kids are very excited about our roadtrip planned for Turkey day so I sure hope it doesn't snow...after the big wreck I don't think I would risk driving long distance in hazardous weather. I am still getting paperwork and legal stuff from the accident...go figure.
I missed you guys, your humor, hugs and support. I will post back later with individual comments. Gotta run DS to an appt.
I'm glad to hear your assessment of things with G is positive, even if for that particular moment.
I wasn't trying to suggest you dump everything because the loving feelings for G aren't there right now. While MB strategies work for many people & are certainly the best out there, we are all different. We all require different things to keep us satisfied & happy in a relationship & an individuals WW behavior can often be a point of no return.
I sincerely hope that's not the case with you & G.
Is she very clear about your ENs, not just what you require of her to recover from the A? It's especially important she meet these needs for you now. I just hope you've made her aware of what you require.
Don't you remember that we spent days looking for my EN's and couldn't find them. Even Myrta tried to help but to no avail.
Obviously we need to wait this out and see if feelings can eventually return. I don't expect that to be any time soon. I am getting better about telling her when things bother me. I'm still bugged that we don't really seem to talk that much about "us". That is partly my fault too. I think she is afraid to talk about anything. No news is good news - so to speak. We are spending time together.
It's great you're spending time together, especially that you want to.
Yes, I remember you having difficulty with your ENs.
How can G generate feelings of love in you for her if she doesn't know what will do that for you?
I'm also glad to hear you can tell her when things bother you, a good step, but she will need more. ex never did this for me so I was left in the dark to guess. Never sucessful.
I think gemela is doing everything I could expect her to. If I had an EN I wanted met, she would likely try her best to do it. But intimacy is gone and trust is demolished. All I can say is that it is generally pleasant to be with gemela and she seems to be trying to protect my feelings. I'm not sure what else I can do at the moment. Maybe I need to have a raffle for EN's or something. I could sure use some and can't seem to come up with them on my own.
How unusual Pio, that you can't come up with a list of ENs. Do you think that's because of her affair or were you not able to list priorities for you prior to that?
It just has never taken much to make me happy. It all started (as previously posted) when I began reading philosophy. I now try to enjoy what I'm doing rather than doing what I enjoy.
Raise your expectations. What about affection, SF, and admiration? Do those need not exist for you even though you are feeling estranged from your wife? Put another way, don't you have those needs as a man and regardless of your marital situation?
I noticed this quite a lot in your thread on the EN forum. I found many examples of where someone would make a comment you found critical and you responded exactly the same way (e.g. "mile in my shoes"). I found many cases where you told posters to change their attitude. And now you are doing it here. Least common denominator dude. If I need to waste my time and go back through your other thread and post that proof here, I'll do that in defense of bigK. Don't worry about erasing any of those posts - I captured your entire thread for posterity.
Pio,
I have no intention of erasing my thread on ENs, I think I'll just let it die a slow death.
Just think of it as a philosophical difference, I prefer to accentuate the positive. I've had 6-7 f the worse months of my life in the worst year of my life. I need positive experiences to help erase the negative ones.
If you want to get into a dialog on dating, can I ask you the favor not to do it on this particular thread? I think 2regret already stated her opinion. I understand there is even an entire forum dedicated to that subject where I'm sure you would get lots of ideas. But right now many of us here are still trying to keep our heads in the game against overwhelming odds. It is great that you have been able to dust the shoes from off the feet of your marriage in - what - one week? Great success story. But your posts about the women you are meeting are a bit unusual. Heaven forbid anybody make a critical comment about them though.
First of all, didn't we decide a few months ago that burning trees would actually PREVENT global warming according to your theoretical model of the planet? Now you are changing your story. You might as well be a Republican.
One possible solution is to harvest trees in a regular fashion and bury them into the ground, thus trapping the carbon. The areas would be replanted and harvested in an ongoing cycle. This would create over a period of years an enormous carbon "sink". Perhaps over the course of several millions years this carbon 'sink' would turn into oil.
I can assure you that you are the one person I don't want to get any marriage advice from. You don't have the qualifications. Post about other things but keep your advice about my marriage to yourself.
Just think of it as a philosophical difference, I prefer to accentuate the positive.
Wrong. Try best two out of three. Booka, all kidding aside, I think you may have a disconnect between what you believe you do and what you do. Go back and read some of your posts. You tend to wallow in self-pity. In no way can that be construed as positive.
Quote
I've had 6-7 f the worse months of my life in the worst year of my life.
Is this an example of accentuating the positive?
Quote
I need positive experiences to help erase the negative ones.
I just bought Darrell Lea licorice from my grocery store! Sure beats the $10 a pound I was paying at the candy store. YUM!
They had the usual black & strawberry plus green apple & mango. I stuck with the regulars this time but next I'll try the other two. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It really is the little things that make me happy.
Wrong. Try best two out of three. Booka, all kidding aside, I think you may have a disconnect between what you believe you do and what you do. Go back and read some of your posts. You tend to wallow in self-pity. In no way can that be construed as positive.
The self-pity mode is over and existed in the past.
Pio, your ignore list fascinates me. You must go to threads and not be able to read half of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I don't put anyone on ignore. Considering I don't really read anything much anymore, there's no need.
Todd, did you & your sons come up with some fun plans for Thanksgiving?
Hi Nams.
WW had told DS3 she was going to Bermuda with friends for Thanksgiving. That was before DS3 got finished with her. He told me the other day that he had talked to WW and she had decided to stay home for Thanksgiving and cook for her sons. I am not certain if DS2 will go over there or not. He will definitely accompany his GF to her parent's for dinner. DS1 and I have been invited to DS1's friend’s home on the South Carolina Coast. So, that is the TG destination for DS1 and me. There maybe a game of golf in the works as well.
Speaking of DS3, while I do not wish WW ill will, I am very happy that DS3 is off my back. When WW announced that she was going to Bermuda, he had a new target on his radar screen. He and his wife had sold their condo a few weeks ago and decided to move in with his IL's until their new home is complete. BTW, they close and move this Friday so they are very excited. When he told me they were moving in with IL for a few weeks, I was concerned. It is very difficult to live with others. Alas, he has discovered that to be true. Apparently, his FIL has a love affair with the bottle. He had two DD’s and adores DS3 and considers him to be like a son. He knows that DS3 and DD will have a good life together. DS3 is on a very fast track at age 23. DS3’s FIL has made some comments about how much money DS3 makes to be so young. He can extrapolate and calculate when DS3’s earnings will eclipse his own. So, it is a paradox for his FIL. OTOH, he is happy for his DD and the life that she and DS3 will have but he is a little jealous. It is strange because he makes excellent money. Their family lives in the same neighborhood as we did before the last home we built. So, DS3 spent the night with me the last two nights and said he will continue to do so until he can sleep in his own home. We have had a ball but last night, he came home from work ill. He has the flu and I am afraid he got it from me.
We have thunderstorms and tornado warnings all over the place for today and tonight. I love thunderstorms. I have never seen a tornado. I have been reasonably close, a few blocks, and felt the wind and hail, but never have seen one. I would like to see one. I will not chase it but if it comes my way, I will stare at it. Not too close mind you.
Where is DS3's wife staying? Isn't she a little p'd that DS is staying with you?
She has at her parent's. No, she is not upset. She is very upset at her Dad. He luckily fly out the next day on business, but when he returns, he will catch, well you cannot say it here at MB, but you know, ****.
No thunderstorms here today, just glorious summer weather. I've opened the window wide at work. I work in a historic house - we have AC but it's nice to open up the windows and let the real air in. Driving along the shore in to work today it was very tempting to just stop and sit on the beach.
Forgot to add that I am taking my sons and their GF's (hopefully minus FGF) out for dinner either Friday or Saturday. Not a TG style dinner, but together at dinner nonetheless. We will go to a nice restaurant where we will have to behave.
DD is sort of happy to be home. She loved travelling and they had such a good time. Now she has to look for a job and that's not quite so much fun. Her b/f is going back to his old job but in a managerial position, so he's ok.
Larousse asked what her favourite places were. They had so many but San Sebastian in Spain, Venice, Bruges in Brussels, Berlin, Yosemite and New York were stand outs.
Gawd Todd, that french GF is like dog poop on a vibram sole, really sticks around.
I'd like to find something nice to do with my boys for a weekend. I'm having a hard thinking of something. We've done Boston, I don't want to do NYC...
DD told the story of being in Yosemite and having an open fire for which there were fire logs provided. All the logs were in separate wrappers and the wrapper said "Caution: Risk of fire". It cracked them up. She said they both said "No ****".
Sounds like you have a good Thanksgiving planned. Compared to last year's TG how does this feel to you?
Nams,
Last TG, the family was physically together. My sons and I had a ball. We always do something involved with sports on TG: Golf, football, etc. WW marked the occasion by getting drunk as a skunk. That evening, while I watched the boys play video games, WW went to the backyard and talked to OM on her cell for a long time. It must have been very difficult on the two lovebirds to not be together for TG.
So, while the family will not celebrate TG together, it will be a much happier one for me. I get to walk on the beach on TG. Never done that before. And oh yeah, FGF won't be there.
Just wanted to post a quick message as I have to get back to the shop. I would love to have time to read the pages of posts I have had to miss but work calls.
I met with my IC last night and I mentioned my confusion at being asked out on a date. By the way BigK he totally agreed with everything that you said! But, he also informed me that I had forgotten I was a woman! I laughed when he first said that but on further reflection he is correct. I am a mother, a sister, a SIL, a DIL, a patient,a boss, a friend, a wife etc. etc. I haven't been just a woman in a long time. For 23 years I have totally concentrated on loving my H and put all thoughts of being attracted to or attractive to other males totally out of my head. Being unfaithful was not ever a consideration.
I'm sure every other person on this site can relate to what my IC said. I guess now I have to discover me again. Hope that all makes sense as I don't have time to correct my post.
Makes perfect sense Beth. Since my D, even a bit before it was final, I started doing more things to make myself feel...prettier. I got a great hair cut, color that will work in the gray & I've gotten into better shape.
I had to go to my attorney's office today to sign paper work that had been incorrectly done months ago. The secretary commented on my appearance, saying "Wow, you look great! I guess you've gotten rid of lots of stress." Very nice to hear.
Aw, Kiwi, poor DD. She must have been having the time of her life & now...reality. Just remind her NYC is cold this time of year. I love Spain! Where did she go? I lived in Madrid for about a year & because it's central we were able to travel around much of the country for weekend trips.
Todd, despite not having the family together it sounds like this TG will be MUCH better than last. Your WW might end up alone on TG if your other two boys don't drop in. Do you think she'll wish she went to Bermuda if she doesn't have the TG she wants?
This Christmas will be the first one my boys will leave me on Christmas day to go with ex. I've tried not to think about that much but when I write that it brings tears to my eyes. They will be with him for the whole of Christmas week. At least they will be here for dinner with my family.
Thanks for the suggestions. Yeah, I thought about the NJ shore but...no, not quite right. Newport is a day trip for us, it's only about 45 minutes away. We've done Williamsburg, NH is a maybe though. I like the coast idea because they do the mountains with ex each year. I'll look into that. A hotel with a pool & a big breakfast buffet is a must. They'd love a wax museum. Hey! Maybe Salem, MA I'll bet they'd love the whole witch experience.
Well 2regret, at first glance I would say it sounds like your IC is hitting on you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd, if you get near FGF on TG, please make sure to leave the salt/pepper shakers hidden away. DS3 living with FIL/MIL? I wonder what he was thinking? BTW I have a problem with my email this weekend. We are such a secretive company that I have about a dozen or more passwords. I just recently had to change two of them and now I can't seem to get corporate email from home.
Nams, I am sorry that you will be spending Christmas without the boys...i have been angry just thinking about having to share kids and missing out on moments b/c of WH antics causing all of this mess...I will deal with it as it comes. Any advice is welcomed though.
Beth, I know what you mean about thinking about yourself as a woman. I wear lots of hats but haven't worn that one until recently and it is a real eye opener...not sure I want to sport it yet though...too much mess to deal with but I will be trying it on in small frequent intervals to get used to it again. Good luck with your new hat, I'm sure it is quite flattering
Larousse, have you hit the tequila lately? I just purchased my seasons first eggnog...Evan Williams...cheap but delicious and gives you that warm feeling. I had every intention of cleaning my basement today but never brought myself to do it...tested the eggnog at 1630, guess that was a red flag on how the day was going:)
BK, I agree with all your dating info but what the heck 1 year for every 5 married...not sure I could obey that rule! What are the Thanksgiving traditions in your neck of the wood? This will be the first year ever that I am not cooking...I think it will memorable for many reasons:)
Booka, I think you function in black and white and now that you know things are in a definite direction you are going full speed ahead. I can understand in a way but have to caution you...even though you have cognitively have moved on I don't think that our psyche's work that way and you will need recovery time whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Be careful speeding is never a good thing unless you are a NASCAR professional:)
Steph20...where the heck have you gone?
Kiwi, any great photos from DD's trip to share?
Todd it is a blessing that you will not be creating a Thanksgiving dinner with your microwave...have I ever mentioned the Thanksgiving that I bought a Turkey dinner at a grocery store thinking it was all ready to go stuffing, grean bean casserole and all...the bird was not cooked but I didn't realize until I picked it up at 1400 or so on Turkey day...we at at 2200 or so...
Pio it sounds like G is doing a pretty good job considering the time frame of her committing. Hang in there I am sure it must be frustrating but yet a bit comforting at the same time. I will not be taking that path so I'll not know...but can imagine it is hard to keep some evil and sarcastic remarks to yourself at times. I have had the pleasure of letting mine fly and knowing how my big mouth shoots it has been like an M-16 lately. We officially agreed on D today after loads of M-16 firing by me. I don't think WH will ever be forth coming on his real soulmate...I have a pretty good idea but could care less at this point after all of the fallout and damage...just hate it for the kids but think in the long run this is actually going to be a very positive thing
Cinderella, Your toe story is disturbing...your friend must have done quite a tape job or the toes must have been pretty mangled in the first place...who'da thought
My DD1 just referred to me as a "computer alcoholic" I burst out laughing and asked her what the heck that meant...ok so I had some eggnog in the afternoon but sheesh...what she meant was a "computerholic."..since I have had the laptop on my lap for the greater part of the day. She was mortified when I told her what her caption meant since she had a picture of me with the laptop drawn up and the "computer alcoholic" caption. LOL
My kids now think that my bed is their bed and have been camping out...I delivered the bad news today that since dad is not going to be coming back they won't be able to sleep with me everynight but we could come up with a 2 time a week plan for a while but they would have to find their way back to their rooms at some point...I may wait until we all get through the holidays though. It's kinda nice to have the company and comforts all of us.
hope you all have a good night/day/whatever it is where you are
[color:"green"] Are you spying me, 2Much? After some weeks of 'dry' behavior I made a Charro negro, tequila with coke (ligh) and lemon. I was a little down because last night I felt I needed to get a life and Pio agreed. So today I went to get a life of my own but all I saw were already taken and the ones that were not taken were not that interesting. So here I'm with a Charro negro (You could translate charro negro as cowboy in black), some Tom Jobim music and me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />[/color]
[color:"brown"] 2Much, I admire your braveness* and humor.I can only image how difficult it has been for you the last year. ((((2Much)))[/color]
2much, I was just about to say the same thing as Larousse, she thinks in green fonts but our thoughts are the same.
I admire your courage and humour too. If anyone is going to make it through this and come out into the light on the other side, you are.
No thanksgiving in this part of the world or BigK's. No pilgrims, no Indians, no thanksgiving. I always think it's so cute what my Native American MB friend's son said to her last thanksgiving. He said "that's when we met the pilgrims isn't it."
You asked for pictures of DD's trip. You know not what you ask. At last count there were over 1,000 stored on my computer. I won't bore you with any more of them.
A computer alcoholic. That made me laugh as that's what I probably am. And I don't mean computaholic either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
There is a very famous Italian pasta dish called Putanessca (spelling?). It means streetwalker pasta, or lady of the night pasta. No one is sure how it got it's name. Some say it's because it's what prostitutes fortified themselves with or some say it's because it's strong and well flavoured.
It's interesting that they liked San Sebastian over other Spain cities with more 'folclore' spirit.
That truly was a once in a life time trip.
I have never been indiferent to Berlin. It has undergone a incredible transformation but you can still see glimpses of history. The museums, not as famous as others, have great treasures. The Doors of Babilon. A whole Greek temple. One thousand years of European paintings in three or four museums.
Larousse, now we are even. I still feel terrible for correcting you about calling Pio "fairly" attractive.
The problem was not with the word "fairly" but the word "attractive". So your quote should correctly be stated as fairly "attractive". Trust me on this one.
I'm so glad I accidentally put Todd on my ignore filter when I was augmenting the list last night. Now I don't know what evil thing he just said about me.
I'm just glad she didn't say "fairily". Dodged a bullet there!
2much,
I agree about the bed thing. I know there is a comfort factor but (and I think you are the one that told me this), it is very important that they sleep in their own beds and also that you minimize the changes in their lives as best you can. There is no question that there is nothing good about their situation at the moment but they need structure and consistency and that will help them.
You are right about the comments. I have a little bit of fledgling experience with sarcasm and, given the opportunity, I have the ability to make some fairly harsh statements. Most of the time I just swallow it. I find I still go through fits of anger. Fortunately I am usually alone. It seems to happen when I am sitting quietly doing nothing and that is not what WW usually allows me to do when she is around. Good for her.
We went to a party last night. Had some really bad homemade wine and some even worse homemade beer. We have headaches today but not from being drunk - it is the formaldehyde. We seemed to have had a good time and today I am buying my neighbor's trampoline (for $80) since he doesn't want it any more. The DDs are going to be very excited and, more importantly, very tired tonight. We also are finally going to tie-dye shirts today.
I would just caution you about going overboard with the children. Don't be a Disneyland Mom either. Kids know what is right and they also know when they don't see it. I forgot what you decided to do about your transfer. When and how far are you going?
2Much - We have no thanksgiving here - not like you do any way. Every day is a good day to give thanks.
Beth, Larouse, I NEVER said I could wait 1 year for every 5 years of marriage. I said I don't think I could do it. I think the whole thing is to be emotionally well. I don't see how than can happen after divorcing as a result of infidelity in less than 2 years. JMHO.
Larousse, San Sebastian was just special for them. They loved it.
They loved everywhere. There were so few places they didn't have a great time. Everywhere they went they seemed to arrive just a festival was happening or the weather was perfect or everything was right.
Yesterday, I watched the last thirty minutes of a movie entitled "My Fellow Americans". It stars James Garner and Jack Lemon who both play ex-Presidents who are the target of a murderous plot. Garner's character was a womanizer when he was President and Lemon's was as straight laced as they come. There is dialogue between them wherein Garner is telling Lemon of one of his escapades:
Garner: I was here in the Oval Office with a beautiful woman who had a body you wouldn't believe. She was a Pan Am flight attendent.
Lemon: I don't want to hear about your romps in the Oval Office. Keep it to yourself.
Well DDs have been on the trampoline nonstop since the AM. They should sleep well tonight. We tie-dyed but will not see the results until tonight. It was kind of fun. I wonder what else I can tie-dye?
"To me, love isn't about finding the right partner...it really is about BEING one. All we can control.
And when God brings you to it...he brings you through it.
Self-comfort in reality...know what is...your boundaries and standards...focusing on your son, learning like WAT says, all about yourself, needs, LBs, perspectives and beliefs...getting to know thoroughly what you cannot control and what only you control...knowing who you choose to love and why...
seems more essential to me than filling yourself up with someone else...filling up from the outside...instead of overflowing out to others..."
Well DDs have been on the trampoline nonstop since the AM. They should sleep well tonight. We tie-dyed but will not see the results until tonight. It was kind of fun. I wonder what else I can tie-dye?
Hamster, maid, soft tail, dado saw blades, snap ons, sheets, towels, dishes, floors, sky............well, the sky is the limit.
"To me, love isn't about finding the right partner...it really is about BEING one. All we can control.
And when God brings you to it...he brings you through it.
Self-comfort in reality...know what is...your boundaries and standards...focusing on your son, learning like WAT says, all about yourself, needs, LBs, perspectives and beliefs...getting to know thoroughly what you cannot control and what only you control...knowing who you choose to love and why...
seems more essential to me than filling yourself up with someone else...filling up from the outside...instead of overflowing out to others..."
larousse,
Please do not take this the wrong way or LA, but I never know things like this mean. What does this mean? It is way over my head. I guess I am a simple man with simple ideas and philosophies. Again, the above proves the simple elegance and superiority of math.
Milton Friedman died today. For those not familiar with Dr. Friedman, he was a noteworthy economist who had been a long-time professor of economics at the University of Chicago and who won the Nobel Prize. He was a staunch supporter and defender of liberty and free markets. He also was an advocate of school choice and his and his wife's foundation donated mightily to this cause. Significantly, he was the economist who determined that the Fed was responsible for the Great Depression. With any luck, his history lessons will be heeded by all future Fed governors.
He was a personal hero of mine. His monetarist theories repudiated the Keynesian economics that characterized our nations economics begun by that original American socialist, FDR. It is a sad day and he will be sorely missed.
John Kenneth Galbraith would represent your brand of politics. He strongly advocated wage and price controls. Unfortunately for Galbraith, an American president implemented his theories. That would be Richard Nixon who ushered in wage and price controls known by the cute tagline, "Whip Inflation Now" (WIN). The irony of that acronym! Galbraith/Nixon's policies led to the greatest recession since the Great Depression.
Galbraith believed that inflation could be controlled by wage and price controls. Milton Friedman proved him sorely wrong by proving that wage and price increases are merely symptoms of inflation. Inflation is the direct result of monetary conditions established by the Federal Reserve. It is simply an expansion of money supply.
In a note to Galbraith, Friedman quipped something to the effect of: are you as chagrined as I that it would take Richard Nixon to implement your theories? Galbraith never responded.
Speaking of Lincoln, has anyone read David Herbert Donald's Lincoln ? He ranks Lincoln as the second most overrated US President. (Most overrated was Adams; other notable overrated's included FDR, JFK and Joe Willie Joe Bob Clinton).
Donald contends that Licoln has been highly regarded because of the Emancipation Proclamation, the fact that he presided over the greatest tragedy in our nation's history and the fact that he was assasinated. He made one military blunder after another, the foremost one being not recalling McCellan sooner. Also, Sherman was thought to be crazy yet Lincoln charged him with the responsibility of conquering Georgia. Sherman's misdeeds are infamous in Georgia.
Just a quick question and I hope someone can help me.
Do we have a member on this site that lives in France? I seem to remember that one of the regulars lives there but for the life of me can't remember which poster it is.
I need some help with some information for my business. It is just a quick question I need answered. I hope it is okay to ask something so non A related.
If you would prefer to contact me by email I have added my email address again.
I'll be back later tonight to see how you all are.
Economic theory, presidential biographies and, just as if it can't get any worse, the french! I'm outta here. I may have some toe nails to clip or something - anything but this.
Do we have a member on this site that lives in France?
I hope they identify themselves so I can apply the ignore filter to them. I do recall there was someone who lived in France and was a real antagonist in this thread.
BrownHair, or something like that, lives in Belgium.....I think.
I am sore from going to hooping class. We have a group practice session Sunday. I hope I have a hoop by then. It will be blue and green and yellow. I am learning to pump. I can't limbo yet. The limbo move is easier than the booty bump.
So today I went to get a life of my own but all I saw were already taken and the ones that were not taken were not that interesting.
Too funny! Although I am a master at the spy game by now, I must confess that I have not been spying on you...just figured since enough time had elapsed, if you were like me, you would have had to return for a little refreshment. I am not a Tequila lover, never have been....just never sat well with me...glad you can enjoy it though.
Thank you for your kind words. I don't know about being brave...I consider it more of being half crazy but I do feel like I can walk away and know that I gave every opportunity and then some and it just wasn't going to happen. Like all the wise MBers say...we can only control ourselves.
My only fear is that since we will always have to be in touch b/c of the kids that he will try to be one of those little splinters you get stuck under your skin, can't really see it to get it out, it is wildly aggravating and uncomfortable, you always know it is there but can't seem to get rid of it for the life of you...you consider just cutting off your finger to rid yourself of the annoyance...yeah, that 's how I feel about WH being XH...I'll have to make sure I don't allow that to happen.
He is in his own world, still asking me to help him with stuff, calling for no real reason, complaining to me about things as if I am going to be sympathetic...maybe after a while of me consistently reacting the same way he'll figure it out and pretty much just deal with the kids and I'll be the greeter and collector. I'd like to witch-slap him into reality but don't think that would do anything cept make me feel better:)
I think you should shop for a new life after you have had a few "black cowboys"!!!! LOL just thinking about all the possibilities with that one
You asked for pictures of DD's trip. You know not what you ask. At last count there were over 1,000 stored on my computer. I won't bore you with any more of them.
Am I that bad that you already posted photos and I missed them? I apologize if that is the case...wow, I must have missed the boat.
I would just caution you about going overboard with the children. Don't be a Disneyland Mom either. Kids know what is right and they also know when they don't see it. I forgot what you decided to do about your transfer. When and how far are you going?
Have no fear, I don't think I have the capability to be a Disney Parent...specially since even in the good times I have "just said no" to Disney...
Each quarter between breaks the kids and I have "fun" time...last time the first day of "family fun" we were in the car wreck and the kids declared after that there would be no more pre-planned "family fun days" we would just try to have fun everyday
The 3 kids and myself had a pow-wow last night and we decided we would look at our situation as being "in search of the divorce prize"...we all know that things happen for a reason and there is positive in every situation so we decided we would make it our business to find the "divorce prize". DD1 is coming up with our slogan and DD2 and DS will create the secret sign. When things get bad or emotional we will flash the sign and chant our slogan to unite and strengthen us since we all came to the conclusion that this is what we want..to be closer and stronger. They were quite remarkable as I was misting and they were joking with me about crying and singing silly songs to make me laugh.
I am working a transer for when the school year ends here to an assignment that is very stable...it wasn't my plan when I arrived at my current location but ironically it is very close to Focus on the Family, a company I have always wanted to work for...if/when I become a civilian I would have that opportunity:)
You seem to be doing quite well in your R. I bet that your anger during quite time is only due to your opportunity to reflect...that should teach you to stay BUSY...the longer time in R, I think the more the anger, bitterness etc should fade...BK would be able to tell you about that stuff I'm sure. What do I know!
I am just so genuinely happy that you have made it this far Pio...you will grow to become one of the MB wise ones...
you will grow to become one of the MB wise ones...
Are you just trying to piss me off now? I've got an "ignore" filter for you too, ya know! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure it gives WH some level of comfort to still talk to you in a twisted sort of way. If you can't NC, then MC (minimal contact). Definitely set boundaries for your discussions and if he strays, just remind him he is going off limits.
I think in a few months when the house sells, you get transferred, etc that your life will open a new chapter. You are right about us not controlling others. Your WH is WH because of who he is. Gemela is a bit different. All waywards are different even though they say the same dialogue. I think MB is just a great method to get them to turn away from the dark side but it is their choice.
I was thinking about larousse and her charro negro. Wasn't the plumber a cowboy? Or was that a wrestler? Or was Todd the cowboy?
Larousse,
It has been cold and rainy all day today. DD2 woke up this AM scared because there was a noise on her window. She doesn't have much experience with rain so it was a difficult explanation. Era muy tequilero el día. You'll know what I mean.
You're as cold as ice You're willing to sacrifice our love
You never take advice Someday you'll pay the price I know
I've seen it before It happens all the time You're closing the door You leave the world behind You're digging for gold Yet throwing away A fortune in feelings But someday you'll pay
You're as cold as ice You're willing to sacrifice our love You want Paradise But someday you'll pay the price I know
I've seen it before It happens all the time You're closing the door You leave the world behind You're digging for gold Yet throwing away A fortune in feelings But someday you'll pay
Cold as ice, you know that you are Cold, cold, as, as, ice, as cold as ice to me Cold, cold, as, as, ice
When I go back to work, I have decided for certain not to go back to what I was doing. The money is great but the job is very demanding and after my experience last August, I learned a thing or two about happiness. I need a job to keep my mind busy but something with a slower pace. My BIL is a retired senior military officer. He and I had discussed my going back to work and he suggested federal employment. Seems alien for a Libertarian but maybe it's an effective way to earn back all the taxes I have paid them. Anyway, he belongs to a rather large network of current and retired military officers, several of whom hold senior positions in the federal government. He told me to let him know if any job interested me and he will put his contacts to work. He obviously cannot get the job for me, but as he put it, he can get me to the front of the line.
He also knows that I have the ambition of moving to Florida in several years. I hate cold weather. The area of Florida I am interested in is the panhandle Gulf coast. He told me of two jobs that are open and he thought I would be perfect for either one. Both are located on a military base and are involved in advanced weaponry development. Get this: one if a physicist and the other is a mathematician. My first reaction was wow! My second, and more realistic reaction was ugh. So far gone from physics that I would be useless. He said that even if I was not "current" each job has a provision to get certified within 24 months of employment. The physics job is not theoretical physics like strings,quarks, mu-mesons and the like but rather applied to aircraft weapon delivery systems. It would include such goodies as matter, energy, physical space, time, nature of physical measurement and structural particles. He knew that I was in the Air Force and that the job would appeal to me. The mathematician job is mostly calculus and decision science it seems. I took a million decision science courses in college. Okay, half a million. Both jobs are high levels jobs which are management in nature so intense technical "hands-on" knowledge is not required.
To say it is tempting undershoots. Despite what he said, I have concerns about my memory and ability to concentrate especially on something so technical. I have always had the ability to process fairly complex chain calculations in my head. I gave myself a test a few minutes ago. The simplest stuff is okay but more complicated and the processes breaks down. Despite my concerns, I have always felt that I can do any job I put my mind to. My real concern is the geography. I would love to live on the beach and the glorious sunsets over the water, yada yada yada. I don't think now is the right time to relocate. For reference, the location is a 6 hour drive from Atlanta. For DS2 and 3, it is 4.5 hours; for DS1, it is about 3.5 hours, lol. It's a short flight and cheap fares are available.
I am conflicted between staying here for my sons and getting and receiving support during this difficult time or doing what I think is best for myself. I am caught up in my own thinking. Can anyone please help me sort this out?
I say go for it - you're not talking about tomorrow. If you are talking about the near future though, I think you need to be near your sons for now.
Where I live it's very unusual to have your kids nearby. Given our geographical distance from everything, many, many young New Zealanders spend their young adulthood in Australia, England or America.
I wish my son lived a bit further away, not in the next bedroom to ours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Personally Todd, I think you need to do what is best for yourself. You'll still get support from DS's, just in a different way. And you won't be that far from them. To me, it sounds like a great opportunity.
BUT, when and if WW pulls her head out of her a**, do you think she would be willing to follow you? Or are you going to file for D? I'm just not sure of the timeline we're following.
I'm not sure how things are with me. Basically waiting for OW to get her other job already so I can fix my M. It should be in January. I can't wait. Until then I'm being pushed into Plan B, but I don't feel it's necessary. WH has established MC (minimal contact). He only talks to her when he absolutely has to, and it's strictly professional. It's not enough, but it'll have to do for now. I believe nothing more is going on between them. Am I naive?
WH is still confused, and that's OK for now, I'm just trying to be the best I can be for him and show him I am what he wants.
Just like everyone else, some days are better than others.
Steph, that all sounds as positive as it can be under the circumstances. You've come a long way in a short time. By that I mean your own personal growth.
I don't know the closing dates for these jobs but they will be filled fairly soon, within 60 days. My BIL added that he expects more of these jobs to open in the next few months but either way, the decision is going to be on top of me soon.
Just the other day Sandi, my artist friend who had the brain tumor, told me about an opportunity where I could concentrate on pottery. It's a good opportunity but at the wrong point in my life. If my kids were grown I believe I'd jump on it. If I only had to worry about myself I'd take the risk.
You sound so excited about this & you're in a position where you need to find a place to live & want to return to work. Sounds like a great opportunity at the right time.
There's a Portuguese club near me that has fish dinners once or twice a year. I've lived here for 11 years & have wanted to go but always miss it. Tonight they're having one & I'M GOING! Two of my buys will like it the oldest won't so he'll stay home.
They get the fish from nearby docks so the fish is fresh. I know I'll feel sick after all the fried food, cuz of course it comes with fries, but I'll live. I might even get some sweet bread to toast & have with butter. How bad is that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Go for it. The weapons industry is no really so hard to grasp. All you have to do is refigure the algorithm: IF Communist THEN BOOM to: IF Al-Qaida THEN BOOM
The area of Florida I am interested in is the panhandle Gulf coast. He told me of two jobs that are open and he thought I would be perfect for either one. Both are located on a military base and are involved in advanced weaponry development. Get this: one if a physicist and the other is a mathematician
Small world Todd...I happened to have spent 4 years prior to my current assignment in the very place you are referring. If you need any info let me know. I am quite familiar with the areas between Pensacola and Panama City...Destin is fabulous. If I could retire there I certainly would!
MMMMMmmmmmm, I am jealous...it sounds yummy! I'm sure the grease will be killer but it is a rare occassion I'm guessing that you indulge so what the heck...don't forget the hot sauce!
Steph, that all sounds as positive as it can be under the circumstances. You've come a long way in a short time. By that I mean your own personal growth.
stef, I agree. Keep up the good work. I believe even the BigK will be proud.
Portuguese eh? Do you do the Lambada? Sounds like fun. Yeah, nams, you are pretty much on hold at this point. There will be plenty of opportunities at the right time.
You know, I was thinking the other day that Communism is not even in our vocabulary anymore. And I have the migration all mapped out in my head. The jobs are located on an Air Force base and I don't know which command it is but it would be a pleasure to help develop the weapons system that brings peace to the world. Or war. And I am not that picky.
Steph, that all sounds as positive as it can be under the circumstances. You've come a long way in a short time. By that I mean your own personal growth.
stef, I agree. Keep up the good work. I believe even the BigK will be proud.
Thanks Jen and Todd. Some encouragement that I'm doing the right thing is nice to hear once in a while. I'm not getting that much anymore.
Todd, I don't think BigK is proud. He's one pushing for me to go to Plan B.
I think he's upset with me and I'm really sad about that, but I have to do what I feel is necessary and right, and Plan B is not it.
Small world Todd...I happened to have spent 4 years prior to my current assignment in the very place you are referring. If you need any info let me know. I am quite familiar with the areas between Pensacola and Panama City...Destin is fabulous. If I could retire there I certainly would!
Hey 2much, hope things are better for you today.
Since you know the area, the jobs are at Eglin. I don't know if Eglin is TAC, SAC or ADC. I would guess ADC because of the coastal location. I entered a post earlier that must be stuck in cyberspace but I had posted that I had bought a lot in Blue Mountain Beach on 30-a if you know that area. WW wanted to buy a home which was not on the beach. My instincts told me to buy the lot, as expensive as it was. The lot was in The Retreat, if you know the development. After hearing WW complain for two years, I sold the lot at a reasonable profit. Today, it is worth a factor of 7 times what I paid for it. Just one more thing to be bitter about, lol.
Both jobs requiure a top secret security clearance which I had in the Air Force so hopefully that wouldn't be a problem. That is, if they overlook my deviant behavior while in the AF. I love the military; I just didn't love being in the military. Maybe being in during the Vietnam "conflict" was part of the problem.
If I get and accept the job, I would likely buy a condo in Destin or even Ft. Walton Beach. Would have to look at a map. I would much prefer Destin however.
Here's an aside but I recollect a Crocodile Hunter episode in which Steve was asked by the Rangers, who train at Eglin, to clear the area of snakes. He saw a bear and gave chase. The bear outran him but as he stopped, there was a magnificent Eatern Diamondback rattlesnake in front of him. Steve described the snake as being "10 feet long with a head as big as his fist". He laid on the ground and looked the snake right in the eyes. He declared that to be the highlight of his career. As you probably know, the Eatern Diamondback is the king of rattlers and Steve was impressed. Here is a guy who has handled snakes around the world including black mambas, cobras, crape myrtles , not to mention the highly venomous snakes native to Aus. And he found this snake to be the highlight. And that episode reminded me of what I miss about Steve: his unbridled enthusiasm.
And that's what I feel would happen if I went to Plan B. WH is not stupid, but not very in touch with his feelings either. He wouldn't get the point of it. No matter what I said or how I said it, he would always think it meant divorce. And he wouldn't try to get me back...he just doesn't work that way. He would think, well that's her decision, so I have to go along with it.
On a different topic, DD is well and truly home. I'd forgotten how many times she used to call me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They're house hunting now and I get calls every five minutes to look at "another one" on the net.
I'm not sure how things are with me. Basically waiting for OW to get her other job already so I can fix my M. It should be in January. I can't wait. Until then I'm being pushed into Plan B, but I don't feel it's necessary. WH has established MC (minimal contact). He only talks to her when he absolutely has to, and it's strictly professional. It's not enough, but it'll have to do for now. I believe nothing more is going on between them. Am I naive?
Hope is not a plan Stef. You hope this hope that.
You cannot control OW or WH, you can only control yourself. It is foolish to depend on some other third party to give you what you need. YOU have to decide what YOU need and then make that happen.
Despite what Jen says, your husband WILL get it. You have this disrespectful vision of him that "he won't care" or "he won't get it". If that is truely the case then why are you even with him? If he cares that little for you?
He is a serial cheater Stef. He will go and screw an OW whenever the fancy takes him and you just accept it and welcome him back into your life. You have discounted the price of admission back into your heart to $0.00 He is STILL in an affair whilever there is any contact. I am amazed that KiwiJ would say or think any different. She has been at MB long enough to understand this but seems to have learnt NOTHING in all her time here.
What are your boundaries Stef? Because I see NONE.
Now let me make 2 things clear.
1. My happiness is not dependant on you following my advice. I have learnt/am learning that I need to not get so emotionally involved with people I am trying to help. All I can do is give you the best MB advice which I have done. Whether or not you follow it is up to you. The advice I have given you is identical in every way to most of the MB "heavy hitters" I am not out of step with any of them. You ignore their advice and mine at your own cost because you are going to have a miserable false recovery. Experience on these boards proves that over and over again. You are no more a special case in this than your husbands affair is special. This is Betrayed Spouse Fog at it's finest.
2. I like you a lot Stef and I care about you. I do not want to see you get hurt as I know you will. I see an express train heading for the edge of a cliff and am trying to warn you. That's all.
Really, at the end of the day, your marriage will have no effect on me whatsoever. It will only effect you and WH. It's your life Stef. I am not mad at you.
Stef - his intentions don't mesh with his actions. The nature of the addiction is such that any contact prevents recovery. Stef - how about a side bet that she doesn't leave and get her new job in January? You can pay me in February.
He SAYS he wants the marriage to work but he isn't WILLING to do ANYTHING to make that happen. He is cake eating Stef.
We can still be friends and disagree about this you know.
That is exactly where I spent 2001-2005 on base. I have friends who own homes in FWB. Most folks do not commute daily from Destin to base although it isn't a big deal cept when tourist season hits and then it stinks. The hurricaines washed away alot of beach the last year I was there. I wish I had purchased a home since all my friends at minimum quadrupled their investments.
There are many nice homescondos between Destin and base that would give you a mix of beach and base lifestyle. I caution that the medical specialty care is not too hot but if you don't mind the commute either to University of South Alabama (excellent medical care) or Pensacola it will be ok. FWB/Destin are not known for their medical specialty skills.
The base has multiple associate units(AAC, 33FW, 46TW, 53W, 728ACS, AFRL, Air to Ground Munitions Sytems etc) in addition to the host unit 96ABW. I know some wonderful GS employees who are locals and could give you intel if needed. My close friends who live in FWB would also help you out if you were interested in contacts as far as realestate etc, they are real down to earth folks... my friend is AF LtCol and her husband is a hoot...I'm not kidding he would be an interesting match with your whit!
I want you to know that I respect and value your advice more than you know. Please believe that.
I've agreed with and followed everything you've ever told me I should do and you've always been right. This "disagreement" we're having about this hurts me because, for the first time, I think I know what I'm talking about and what I'm doing, and I want you behind me supporting that and understanding my reasons. Maybe if you knew us personally you would feel differently. I don't know.
How many times have I said we are not in recovery yet? I know that, I've told WH that and he knows it too.
But he's doing things at his own pace. That's fine with me for now. Not that I'll be fine with his pace for too much longer, but for now it's OK.
I'll agree to your side bet...if she doesn't leave in January, I'll pay you in February and go to Plan B. How's that?
Now apologize to Jen...you were rude! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for the info. You know, I didn't even think about the medical care down there until after I had posted. It is a concern. UASB is in Mobile right. That's about a two hour drive from FWB. Pensacola is an hour drive or so. I don't know if it was built before you left the area, but there is now a Sacred Heart hospital in Destin. It is a unit of SH in Pensacola. It has an excellent reputation already but as you say, the specialist community in Destin may be lacking. I don't mind commuting an hour to Pensacola. My only concern is if I requrired emergency care. But medical care is another factor I need to churn in.
Despite what he said, I have concerns about my memory and ability to concentrate especially on something so technical.
I wouldn't let that stop you. Performance and accuracy of military weapons doesn't seem to be a requirement in any of the job descriptions based on past results. I still remember the Mars lander that crashed because the guy forgot to convert from metric to English units. Oops. Besides, that's why they make bombs so big - covers for targeting errors.
Don't forget the expression "close enough for government work". It's really true.
Yes it is your life. I have read the statement "hope is not a plan" a few times lately and I'm not sure it sits too well with me. For example, in my case I hope that some day I will get back feelings (good ones) for gemela. I am waiting and trying to give us time so that can happen. OTOH, until your WH firmly establishes NC, the odds are very much against you. But that doesn't mean it won't work either. Many people have been here for a few years (I have not) and have seen these things play out before. They are giving you their advice based on empirical evidence. That is something that neither you nor I have. You won't offend anyone here by not following their advice. Just don't forget that they give it thinking only of your best interests. So just don't get mad.
Todd,
I was thinking more about that Eglin job and I am convinced it would be a mistake. First of all, you are too intelligent to be a GS employee and would flunk the test (they only take the lower 40th percentile). Second, your math and physics skills might actually develop a weapons system that worked and that is the last thing the military wants. Think of the consequences. Weapons work. The Pentagon has to cancel billions of dollars in development contracts. Lockheed, Grumman, TRW stocks plummet. Economy goes into a recession tailspin beyond recovery. The military has to scale back enlisted personnel. Contractors' jobs disappear. Places like Destin turn into a ghost town almost overnight. All the support businesses whose life blood is the money pumped into the local community by tax revenue and personal spending by those contractors who now no longer have jobs. Property values are destroyed by bank foreclosures. No more weapons R&D - only manufacturing so the USA looks to reduce product costs and outsources to the only logical place - China. Long story short is that there would be no end to the number of people adversely affected by your blunder (of not making a mistake) and there would be some serious money at stake. Your life wouldn't be worth a plug nickel and no way to ever solve the murder - too many people with motive.
Besides, that's why they make bombs so big - covers for targeting errors.
Even in my day, weapons delivery systems were accurate. Not like today but not too bad. Despite the precision involved, my favorite bombing is carpet bombing. Widespread, dense and highly effective. Did I mention loud? When a squadron of B-52's fly overhead and each drops a bevy of 2,000 lb bombs, it is quite a show.
I was thinking more about that Eglin job and I am convinced it would be a mistake. First of all, you are too intelligent to be a GS employee and would flunk the test (they only take the lower 40th percentile). Second, your math and physics skills might actually develop a weapons system that worked and that is the last thing the military wants. Think of the consequences. Weapons work. The Pentagon has to cancel billions of dollars in development contracts. Lockheed, Grumman, TRW stocks plummet. Economy goes into a recession tailspin beyond recovery. The military has to scale back enlisted personnel. Contractors' jobs disappear. Places like Destin turn into a ghost town almost overnight. All the support businesses whose life blood is the money pumped into the local community by tax revenue and personal spending by those contractors who now no longer have jobs. Property values are destroyed by bank foreclosures. No more weapons R&D - only manufacturing so the USA looks to reduce product costs and outsources to the only logical place - China. Long story short is that there would be no end to the number of people adversely affected by your blunder (of not making a mistake) and there would be some serious money at stake. Your life wouldn't be worth a plug nickel and no way to ever solve the murder - too many people with motive.
You forgot to mention the vaporization of Tehran. We could then take over the Persian rug business, redeploy all DOD employees to rug looms and make a killing. Of course, then a union would be formed and the union would insist on workers only knotting 200 knots per square Cm. But then there is all that oil.
I thought sweatshops of children working their little fingers till they're bloody would be part of your plan...
Well, that wouldn't change. Someone gots to train the Americans. After all, they have had a 5,000 year head start. But our good ol' unions would ensure they get good medical care.
And when we finally did take it over, quality would plummet and cost would increase. Moral: buy all the Persian rugs you can get your hands on.
Yes - carpet bombing. It just sounds so comforting somehow.
I saw where several countries are trying to outlaw cluster bombs. I also saw how the USA (surprisingly) was so adamantly against the idea. Imagine that. I was in Kuwait after GF #1 and saw much of the unexploded cluster ordnance in Wafra. I also saw how US companies were paid millions of dollars to clean it up. It was the first time I had ever seen a country make a tidy profit on poor quality control - in other words, paid to clean up their mistakes. The concept is brilliant. Auto companies could learn a lesson. No more expensive product recalls. No more class action lawsuits. "You want me to fix that exploding Pinto I sold you? Yeah, I'll do it. Gonna cost ya though. What? You don't think your life is worth a $1,000 repair bill? Would you settle for $500?"
If the USA took over the Ira(x)ian carpet making industry, unionized it, etc., so you think that the USA would then ease up on the import restrictions? Ira(x) is still an embargoed country AFAIK. BTW, I have to use the "x". If I say "Iran", I can get arrested. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Stef I know you have said many times you are not in recovery. I hear that. But your actions sort of ..... well you know.....
No, I don't know...I want my marriage to work and I'm taking those actions, but....
Quote
It's OK Stef - really. It is your life and your decision and I do hope it works out for you.
But you don't think it will. Why?...
Quote
We will remain friends Stef.
Thank you. I am looking forward to February.
Quote
And Stef it is NOT just me that advises Plan B. You know that. I understand you are afraid.
I'm not afraid of Plan B. If I knew it would work and it was necessary I would be all over it. I lived without him before, I could do it again. I just feel WH is doing the best he can given the circumstances.
Quote
stph20,
Yes it is your life. I have read the statement "hope is not a plan" a few times lately and I'm not sure it sits too well with me. For example, in my case I hope that some day I will get back feelings (good ones) for gemela. I am waiting and trying to give us time so that can happen.
At least you get where I'm coming from. I wouldn't say hope is my plan, but one needs hope in the plan, otherwise what are you fighting for? Why bother? Hope is not my whole plan, but it's part of the plan.
Quote
OTOH, until your WH firmly establishes NC, the odds are very much against you.
I know this. And I accept it and I've admitted it, on this board, to myself and to WH.
Quote
But that doesn't mean it won't work either. Many people have been here for a few years (I have not) and have seen these things play out before. They are giving you their advice based on empirical evidence. That is something that neither you nor I have. You won't offend anyone here by not following their advice. Just don't forget that they give it thinking only of your best interests. So just don't get mad.
I've not gotten mad. It just confuses me and I get frustrated when I'm confused. Especially when several "experts" tell me one thing and I think I'm doing it right, then other "experts" tell me I should be doing another and make me feel like I haven't learned anything since I've been here. That's why I haven't been around much lately. I needed a break to figure out what was best for me right now. Plan B is not it yet. I'll be ready for it in a couple of months, if need be. But WH came back home to work on our marriage. I'll admit that I let him back knowing that he was going to be at work with OW every day. But, he cut all ties that he could with her as soon as he came back. And he's been honest about everything. And they started her on a different type of job, or whatever, and she's at the other dealerships all day, they don't see each other anyway. So they have VERY LIMITED contact. He's home when he's supposed to be, he doesn't know I check his phone, so he doesn't delete the numbers, and they aren't talking on the phone. He needs to get over her, which to him, he's having to do that now. And I need to be the shining star at the end of the tunnel. It just wouldn't look to him like I really want the M to work if I just up and moved out.
Also Steph, you have to remember, despite what some people around here think, none of us are experts. None of us are counsellors. We're just people who've been there, done that and we care.
I've said this several times before. I used to believe that the path to marital recovery was a tight rope. Now I believe it is a four lane highway. Either your WH really wants the M or he doesn't. Experts here are giving you advice on the best way to achieve your goals. I was told very specifically to "tolerate" contact. It went against every fiber of my being but I eventually did that.
I'm not giving an opinion here. I did notice on your thread that some "experts" jumped right in and gave you very specific advice on a post and not the whole thread. Some of that advice was reckless - much was not. I understand the confusion. Been there. You are having to deal with something you were never trained for and have little experience to cope with. The fact that any marriage survives adultery this is either a miracle or the result of a WS who made a mistake, realizes it and wants their M back (or both). All you can do is offer an opening but the decision is on the WS. They chose the affair without your permission. They don't need your help to choose the M. They just need your permission to recover the M. If you follow MB principles, your M will likely be very much better.
But right now you can't get into recovery because WH doesn't have NC. I understand the November change was pushed out till next year. I have changed offices 5 times in the 2 years I have been here. They just dumped me into a tiny little hole with no windows and only one functioning light. I have the highest GC and higest position of my unit and I have the worst office. It's fine with me. It bothers my boss (but he assigned me the office so who can he blame?). He keeps saying we are going to move to new offices in two months. Problem is he says that every two months. So far we are 7 months in to his "2 month" plan and it will be at least another two months. My point is: don't expect that OW will get her job change whe WH says it will happen. It will likely not happen. What WH needs to do is find another job. He needs to take extraordinary precautions to prevent contact. That is what should happen and what will give you the best chance of R. Now, whether that will really happen is another story. But, according to the MB plan, that would be ideal.
Take your time to read and reread everything people are telling you. There is some really good stuff there.
KiwiJ,
I can't for the life of me understand why you think exploding things is not exciting - oh wait - we were discussing unxploding things. Sorry. I see your point.
Carpet bombing can make use of cluster bombs as well as incendiary bombs. Regardless of the type of bomb, the idea is to saturate an area and in the process, destroy people, equipment and structures. The process also demoralizes the enemy. It is a marvel in our high tech world. The B-52 has been around for fifty years but it remains the carpet bombers bomber of choice due to its incredible payload, range and gentle aging. The most effective example of carpet bombing was in the first Gulf War. The "elite" Republican Guard of Iraq had dug themselves into bunkers and according to the American press, were fortified to withstand the onslaught of carpet bombing. Yeah, but when the ground troops went in after two weeks of carpet bombing, the elites were crawling out of their bunkers waving white flags. Much has been made of the fact that Papa Bush and General Powell did not send the troops to Iraq to "finish the job". As the elite guard retreated, we had fighter jets and attack helicopters picking them off like shooting fish in a barrel. Powell lacked the guts to do "what is necessary". It sure would have helped the current mess we find ourselves in today.
In fact, I won a bet at work about how long the war would take. I said three weeks. My friend said he heard on CBS it could take a decade to dislodge the elite guard out of Kuwait. I won some easy money.
BTW Todd, I saw those fortified bunkers in Wafra with my own eyes. Been in some. The Iraqis "borrowed" cylindrical fiberglass 500 gallon water tanks from the houses in Kuwait city. They spread them across the desert and cut holes just large enough to crawl through. They didn't even bury them. They may have kept out the cold but not much more. The air campaign was exceptionally cruel - but effective. The B52's make great carpet bombers, lousy music and pretty good shooters. I'm not sure what else you can get out of a B52.
Gotta love things that rip people apart. *rolleyes*
As Sherman said, war is heck. War is awful but sometimes it is necessary. This is one of those times. The world changed on 9/11. The world further changed on the day NK tested a nuclear weapon and has also changed with I ran developing nuclear weapons. I ran has announced two goals: the destruction of Israel and the destruction of the US. Before Bush 's term expires, he will order bombing of I ran's nuclear facilities and even some other valuable targets. It will retard, not prevent I ran from going nuclear one day. When that happens, nuclear detonations will occur over Israel and the US. Then the other western countries will follow, like Britain and Australian.
Make me President for 30 days; I will solve the problem.
I repeat. Go read "The Prize". All modern wars have been fought over oil. The Japanese were "forced" to attack Pearl Harbor because a weak US presidency unwittingly cut off their oil supply. Where did Germany head first in WWII? It takes oil (so far) to fight a war.
Todd,
Keep in mind that KiwiJ is not unbiased here. We all knwo that NZ will be the only place to survive nuclear war. We also know that the cockroaches will be one of the few species to survive nuclear winter. So KiwiJ is simply worried about being inundated with cockroaches. I say stockpile Baygon while you still can.
Hey, we're already inundated with cockroaches. I HATE the things. They're unkillable. Where are carpet bombs when you need 'em. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
NZ is in Iran and Afghanistan. We are there as peacekeepers, not fighting forces. Our blue berets are very well known.
An aside: Last weekend the NZ rugby team beat the French 47-3. Let them put that up their arrogant backsides. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
If my country was threatened with invasion, perhaps necessary.
Neville, err, I mean Jen,
The US and Israel have both been threatened with an invasion - an invasion of nuclear weapons. The world can do what Neville Chamberlain did when he appeased Hitler by looking the other way as the Germans took Czechoslovakia. Or, it can face the hard realities of the world as Churchill did.
Two great quotes by Churchill:
"An appeaser is a guy who will throw his friends to an alligator hoping he will be last"; and
"I have myself full confidence that if all do their duty and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our island home, ride out the storms of ware outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary, for years, if necessary, alone."
Unfortunately, peace is not achieved by being peaceful. Peace is a product of strength, might and determination. Is is true on the playground with the local bully as it is with the rogue bullies of the world.
You can make whatever argument you desire to describe the current war in Iraq. Saddam did have WMD as was reported by the Iraqis themselves a couple of years ago. That news was ignored by the world's press. Saddam did train terrorists and that fact is documented. My disagreement is just we should have gone to I ran first.
I decided to do some mental masturbation, so I looked through the Amazon bookstore. A history book tickled my fancy so I read the reviews. A Frenchman wrote that Americans are not aware of how little is known of its history outside of the US.
Correction Frenchie: Americans don't care what the rest of the world knows or doesn't know, especially Frahn-say.
You mean NZ has enough population to field a rugby team? Or did y'all borrow some folks from Aus?
Like I said where are those carpet bombs when you need 'em. There's a place (person) in Georgia that needs bombing right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
NZ does have a very good rugby team. They patterened themselves after the NBA in the USA. Of course, it was before they had seen any actual NBA games. Something got lost in the translation. It still seems to work for them though.
We should be stockpiling persian rugs....baygone....carpet bombs....history books....good wine....antidepressants....ice cream....cookies....tampons....antiperspirants....and what else?
No need to stockpile Persian rugs. Invest your money in international HMO's. The Persian rug corporations will have to try to cut medical costs resulting from the unionization of their 7-12 year old slave laborers. HMO's will be the method of choice. I think the increase in stock price will more than offset the price increase for the carpets.
BTW, I disagree that we should stockpile AD's. I think we should pop them like there is no tomorrow. I accidentally stopped taking mine months ago and now I can't find them.
I have read the statement "hope is not a plan" a few times lately and I'm not sure it sits too well with me. For example, in my case I hope that some day I will get back feelings (good ones) for gemela. I am waiting and trying to give us time so that can happen.
Ok Pio - I'll play. Here's the thing IMO. Hope is wonderful. Without hope you will despair. But Hope, while wonderful is not a plan.
If you are relying on hope and time to renew your love for Gemela, you will be disappointed. You might as well divorce now. Time of itself is unimportant. It's what you DO with the time.
The whole Harley Plan is indetified in the 4 rules.
1. Extrordinary Care - Meeting EN's 2. Not being source of unhappiness - Avoiding Love Busters 3. Policy of Undivided Attention - spending minimum of 15 hours a week doing (1) above. 4. Policy of Radical Honesty.
Now when you identify EN's for each other, you put in place a PLAN to meet those needs. The Plan is a specific plan. The MB home study audio course is excellent in helping you do this. $195 well spent Pio.
Now if you do the 4 things with your time, you WILL fall in love. Hope will have NOTHING to do with it.
Further proof that my screen name is deserved since bigK is picking nits again.
I am blindly following that plan. I hope it will work. You say it cannot fail. Sorry but I am not so sure but I hope I am wrong. A few pieces have to fall in place and not all are within my control. For example, I have yet to see real remorse IMO and, sorry to say, that is a deal-breaker for me. You have said that comes after some time. I hope you are right. I need to be able to forgive the hurt. I hope I can. I hope to be able to love and even trust gemela again some day. So, as you can see, I am full of hope - and that is the problem.
If you don't have hope, there is no point of following the plan and, as you suggest, better to get divorced straight away.
Stef I know you have said many times you are not in recovery. I hear that. But your actions sort of ..... well you know.....
No, I don't know...I want my marriage to work and I'm taking those actions, but....
I know you understand this INTELLECTUALLY but your emotions and your brain are not in sync.
Quote
Quote
It's OK Stef - really. It is your life and your decision and I do hope it works out for you.
But you don't think it will. Why?...
Really Stef I think I have covered in ample detail why I think this.
Quote
Quote
We will remain friends Stef.
Thank you. I am looking forward to February.
Me too Stef. I am so excited about meeting so many of my MB friends.
Quote
Quote
And Stef it is NOT just me that advises Plan B. You know that. I understand you are afraid.
I'm not afraid of Plan B. If I knew it would work and it was necessary I would be all over it. I lived without him before, I could do it again. I just feel WH is doing the best he can given the circumstances.
Ah I see. You know Stef, Harley himself says that Plan A only succeeds 15% of the time. The rest of the time Plan B is needed. But you are asking for an IRON-CLAD guarantee. 100%. Sorry can't do that. I can't guarantee thet even if you follow what I say in EVERY single solitary way that you will save your marriage. I can almost 100% guarantee however that you cannot recover while there is ongoing contact.
KiwiJ has had more opportunity to study and apply MB than most here in the last few years yet she has repeatedly not applied it in her own life, and is now advising you against a tactic that is advised by Dr Harley. She thinks she recalls a case where plan B led to a divorce. MB isn't "magic". The fastest horse doesn't always win, but that's the one you should bet on. MB is the fastest horse.
Again I suggest that you should talk with Steve Harley and get specific advice about your situation. In this Kiwi is right. None of us are marriage counsellors (but we are pro marriage which is better than can be said for many "professionals")
Quote
At least you get where I'm coming from. I wouldn't say hope is my plan, but one needs hope in the plan, otherwise what are you fighting for? Why bother? Hope is not my whole plan, but it's part of the plan.
Hope is essential Stef. But no substitute for a plan.
Quote
I've not gotten mad. It just confuses me and I get frustrated when I'm confused. Especially when several "experts" tell me one thing and I think I'm doing it right, then other "experts" tell me I should be doing another and make me feel like I haven't learned anything since I've been here. That's why I haven't been around much lately. I needed a break to figure out what was best for me right now.
OK Now I suggest you look at WHICH experts you listen to. Look at their Post count and look at their marriages. That should help you determine who has credibility, who knows what they are talking about and who you should listen to.
Further proof that my screen name is deserved since bigK is picking nits again.
I am blindly following that plan. I hope it will work. You say it cannot fail. Sorry but I am not so sure but I hope I am wrong. A few pieces have to fall in place and not all are within my control. For example, I have yet to see real remorse IMO and, sorry to say, that is a deal-breaker for me. You have said that comes after some time. I hope you are right. I need to be able to forgive the hurt. I hope I can. I hope to be able to love and even trust gemela again some day. So, as you can see, I am full of hope - and that is the problem.
If you don't have hope, there is no point of following the plan and, as you suggest, better to get divorced straight away.
Picking nits was not my intention Pio. SOrry. But I have seen you trying to drive her away.
Does she understand you need to see remorse? You will know if she is genuine or not BTW so don't make excuses for not asking her for what you need. She is not a mind reader.
Plan A until January. Put appropriate boundries in place until then. Plan B if needed after that.
The Harley's recommend Plan A until you no longer have the strength for it. Steph has plenty of strength for it. Plus she is only now getting good at it. Her previous plan was full of impatience, demands, and LB'ers.
Her husband won't respond well to Plan B because he is not strongly bonded to her at this point. Also, he will not understand the sudden change in direction.
He is talking the talk, she's willing to give him a few more weeks to walk the walk.
Why can't you support that?
And why do you have to be so disrespectful of any opinion that doesn't agree with yours? I have yet to see all these experts you've been quoting show up on her thread. And post count means nothing. I just don't jabber as much as you -- but what I say is still valid.
No I have not told her that and I see it as counterproductive. You have said it could take her months for the reality to sink in. I am patiently(?) waiting that time to see how she reacts then. I'm not convinced she is remoreseful now. You have said before that shouldn't be a requirement. If I tell her what I want and she does it, did she do it because it is real or because it is what I want? I have a Catch 22. I feel it is better not to say anything and then, if it does come about, it will be more credible. Sorry I can't be more optimistic but this is a women who lied to me repeatedly for about a year - and rather convincingly at times - so she might just put on another great performance.
Before I get too defensive, which one of us are you pounding on? I've already got one scuffle going with bigK. Just need to know if I need to get ready for another one.
Well I tend to agree. I admit I also have not stayed completely up-to-date with stph20's thread though. I got a little upset when I saw her get caught in a tug-of-war and decided to stay out. So I don't know what is right here. All I know is I hate my office and I fear I may retire here. If I go that long, I may think about getting the lights fixed though.
I do have an unrelated question though. Wouldn't a libertarian taking a GS job be considered as expanding government albeit on a micro scale? Couldn't he lose his membership card or something?
Sorry Lexxxy - I don't do sunshine emimas. I'll leave them to you.
bigK,
I don't know much about Lexxxy and don't recall many posts. I'm sure you are more familiar. Even so, that was a definite DJ you made. Not sure if you have an old axe you felt the need to grind or not and, since I don't know, I'll reserve my judgment but you could have left off that last sentence and still gotten your message across, don't you think?
OK Now I suggest you look at WHICH experts you listen to. Look at their Post count and look at their marriages.
What bigK is saying is don't listen to me. In that he and I are FINALLY in agreement on something. Don't listen to me. I cannot call my sitch a success story. All I have tried to relate to you from my sitch is that Plan B is nothing to be afraid of. I was afraid of it but I was wrong.
Considering what Lexxy said to the BigK, he was completely justified in what he said. Besides, his last sentence was merely colorful.
I have quit giving specific advice because I am not that well schooled in MB principles. Plus, just as you said to booka, Pio, why would anyone want to listen to me? I am hardly a living success story with regards to recovering a marriage.
WW called last night. Do I need to say that she was drunk? She started by saying she was going to Florida tomorrow (today) to be with FIL for his birthday. She asked if I wanted to go. Errr…no. She then took the opportunity to blast me for exposure. I decided to copy her defense. I told her I never exposed. She said yes you did. You told friends, sons and my Dad. No, they are liars, I did not. This went on for five minutes, I kid you not.
Then she told me how stupid I was to listen to all the other stupid people on all the internet “sites”. Brace yourself: she said that the people on this site are no better than child predators. She said that the only goal all of you have is to take my money and run my life. Yes, that is how far gone she is. Going back to exposure, she said that if I had a problem with her A, I should have sought IC, Pastor, friends, etc. for help. This is ironic because this is the same feedback that I gave her about options to her A is she felt “trapped” or unhappy in the M. She said no, an A is different; you don’t think about those things. She again stated that she didn’t have an A, that OM was impotent. She said that they did “other things” and that I had no right to know what those things were. I assured her that I simply do not care anymore.
Again, going back to my exposing her A, she said if I was so unhappy about her A, I should have D her. I reminded her that is what I told her if she was so unhappy with the M, she should D me. She said she didn’t believe in D, but apparently believes in cheating. Did I mention that she was drunk? She added that she knew I was sick but had no idea that I had a tumor. It was almost as if she was expressing guilt for having the A. She said her friends told her to D me but she couldn’t so she had the A.
It went on and on. Finally, I genuinely and completely lost it. I said some things to her I have never said before. I told her to never call again. I no longer loved her and had no interest in R. I hung up. I am seriously considering filing for D as soon as my lawyer can file the papers. I didn’t want to D until after the holidays but now that I think about it, if I file, say in December, the D will not be final until 31 days have passed. It also depends on my options for health insurance through her employer.
Good gawd Todd, your WW has a capacity for repetition I've never seen before. Wait...a small child will repeat, repeat, repeat until you want to run screaming the other way. Generally the small child will have some qualities that will make you want to stick around though.
We want to take your money run your life? How could we possibly do that? Can anybody see my hand reaching through the screen to take Todd's wallet? Or do we use mind control to get you to send us money over the internet. I'm going to open a paypal account so Todd can pay me by credit card this way I don't have to worry about bad checks.
Your bit about denying exposure must have had some fun attached in a way only BSs can have fun with an A.
Do what you need to to stay sane Todd.
Yeah, I said stay soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Your bit about denying exposure must have had some fun attached in a way only BSs can have fun with an A.
Hi nams,
No question. I am so tired of her denying her A that the moment simply hit me last night: I will deny that I ever exposed. She even started to argue the point. But my Dad said you called him and told him about my A. No, I never called your Dad. Your Dad is what, 84? His memory must really be bad. This was an parody of sorts of her telling the exposees that I am confused because of my tumor. True enough, but not about her A. This was her puny way of validating the A.
Todd, part of the D settlement should be that you get COBRA for 18 months. Perhaps your atty can get it set up so your WW pays for the COBRA. Look into the laws in your state. In Calif, there is a law on the books that 30 days before COBRA is up you can purchase health insurance without consideration of pre-existing conditions. You have to get the timing right but it helps in situations like yours.
Why do you think Plan B is so important right now after he just came home and wants our marriage to work?
BigK, honestly, I wouldn't even bother with her anymore; it is hopeless. She does not want to be helped, she wants her WS at any and all cost. This has been explained to her endlessly and she simply refuses to listen. Her case is "different." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Edited out for RAGE FACTOR.
BigK, I know it kills you to watch her behave so stupidly, but please go help someone who really wants help. There are so many desperate ppl on this forum who really do want and need help.
I was hoping you would see it and will take it into consideration the next time you feel compelled to "help" newbies forgo tried and true MB principles against their own best interests just because they are scared. That is just my "opinion."
Sorry I have not been around. I am also sorry that I don't have time to read all the many pages I seem to have missed. I do hope that everyone is well and that you are finding peace, happiness and love in your lives.
I am heading off on to a "Retreat" for a few days. I will be back Wednesday in time to prepare Thanksgiving. My boys are all staying with wonderful friends, so I am able to go.
I had some shocking news on Thursday and am not handling it very well, thus the retreat. My PI reported that my H is the father of a beautiful little girl with the OW. Yes, he even had a photo of the happy family. My H has confirmed he is the father. I think it is the fact that I lost my child and cannot have any more that is agony to me. Seems like a double betrayal somehow. Both my body and my H.
So, I am running away for a few days to work out how to handle this. Do we tell our sons? Looks like D is now a set date in my life. Cannot think, cannot stop crying. Sorry.
Todd - at the time of my divorce, US DOL regulations said you COULD receive COBRA benefits for UP TO 36 months. They MAY be granted for up to 36 months.
I knew just a smattering about it....talked to them because x's employer was calculating them incorrectly. Called emp back w/ DOL regs and they changed their company policy (and it is a major employer in this city). So, you may be entitled to more than your ww will want you to have.
MEL! Please please tell my why its your belief that Steph should go to plan B. I am usually in sync with your advice. In fact I usually don't bother posting a lot of times, because you just said what I would have said.
However, in this case -- based on what I've seen on her threads here, I'm the opposite of what everyone else is saying. Now I'm not privy to whatever has been said or posted on some other board -- so please tell me why are advocating Plan B after 8 weeks of a so-so Plan A, with her husband home and saying he wants to end the A???? I'm not getting it. And BigK is not very eloquent in explaining his views.
Lexxy, first off, this is his SECOND AFFAIR. She has been in some semblance of Plan A for much longer than 8 weeks, closer to 4 months. Her H had left her for the OW, moving out, and recently came back home to reconcile. WITH NO CONDITIONS.
He refuses to end contact with his OW, snickering at Steph's requests to end contact. He is in contact with the OW every day at work and still takes her calls. He is in full cake eating mode and she has NO boundaries. He is under no pressure, whatsoever, to end his affair. To maintain the current conditions of Plan A, is, IMO, detrimental to her position. This is why I think she needs to go into Plan B NOW.
I'm really sorry to hear that news. How are you holding up? Do you think WH wanted a child or is OW using this to tighten her hold?
Todd,
My memory is a little fuzzy but when I left my last job and took this one, I was uninsured for something like two months. So I remember asking about the COBRA insurance and effectively got it without paying for it. What I am fuzzy about is the timing but I remember that, in my case, the COBRA insurance was fairly expensive. What I was advised to do is write a letter to HR telling them I wanted the insurance which required them to write me a letter regarding the case of pre-existing conditions and that I qualified. I think they had to write that letter within the 30 day window. OTOH I didn't have to pay the premium for 90 days. Long story short, I was "covered" but would only pay the premium after I had any expenses that would cause me to need insurance. In your case, you probably want the insurance longer than that but I only mention it because it was something I didn't know about the insurance and the HR lady was very sympathetic to my cause. She resigned shortly after I did BTW. She hated the company worse than I did.
I found my sling psychrometer the other day. Can we talk about wet bulb temperature and relative humidity?
WW got us an invitation to go to the Commodore's Ball hosted by the yacht club. We bought the tickets last night. She told me it would be at the Gulf Hotel in Bahrain. She told me this several times. I got reservations at the Gulf Hotel so we don't have to come back so late that night. She also mentioned that if we buy a boat we can save 200 SR on the ticket price. So far I haven't bothered to calculate the ROI on that investment. Anyway, I'm looking at the ticket and it clearly says "Radisson" hotel. I don't even know why I decided to look at the ticket. I'm glad I did.
Here's my COBRA experience. I was entitled to coverage for 3 years. Quite expensive. I ended up with other insurance for a lesser cost but also lesser insurance. My mistake was not acting on it sooner. It was three months after the D that I decided to check into it, I [censored] u med I could just pick it up by a certain date. That date was the date I had to say yes or no. I could still get coverage but I had to back pay the three months. Pissed me off so I went elsewhere. Stupid on my part.
nams is right. I would have had to back pay but I didn't actually have to send a check for 90 days. Turns out I never needed it so never paid but I had my ducks all nicely lined up just in case.
I can't wait to get to the office so I can see what ML said before the edit.
Todd,
I have a real problem with you as a libertarian taking a new government job. I would prefer you run for president. Since that job already exists, you can be president without actually expanding government. Give it some thought. Do you have a platform (other than shoes, of course)?
Beth, I'm so sorry to hear about what your H has done. The fact that he didn't have the decency to tell you himself is, well, unforgivable, but that's not my call to make.
I have a real problem with you as a libertarian taking a new government job. I would prefer you run for president. Since that job already exists, you can be president without actually expanding government. Give it some thought. Do you have a platform (other than shoes, of course)?
Can one be President and not be a hypocrite? But, by popular demand, here is my platform:
1. Reduce federal government spending to only include national defense of which intelligence would be a component. There would be no social programs, education "help" by the fed government, etc. 2. Cut taxes such that tax receipts would equal defense spending. 3. Cut waste in defense sector of government. 4. Eliminate corporate income taxes. Guess who really pays them? 5. Greatly simplify the fed income tax. You pay 3% of your gross income. No deductions, offsets, credits, debits, etc. 5. Bomb the following countries into oblivion: Irax, Syrix, NK and Cuba. Cuba is not a military threat; I simply want American developers to go in and build world-class resorts. In fact, I would oversee the first carpet bombing done with nuclear bombs. 6. Eliminate government schools, road programs, safety programs, etc. 7. Eliminate the federal reserve; 8. Eliminate the SEC 9. And so on and so forth... 10. Repeal all laws which do something other than protect our life, property and liberty. For example, gambling would not be illegal. Nor would prostitution, drugs, etc.
Todd - and in just what conference would Alabama, LSU, UT, Georgia, Auburn, Vanderbilt, Florida, and the rest play after you eliminate the South Eastern Conference.
Not an absolute requirement but it will definitely hurt you in the large electoral states. I recommend you spin it or play it down as best you can. Even so, you can probably write off California.
In fact, I would oversee the first carpet bombing done with nuclear bombs.
Exactly how close would you be? Get close enough and the radiation might just wipe what little remains of your tumor right out. Cut medical costs too, IOW.
I have NO axe to grind against Lexxxy. She started it.
Okay now I know Lexxxy is a "she". I was curious. Thanks for clearing that mystery up.
I read what ML edited out. Gotta love email notification.
bigK, I was not criticizing (criticising?) your post. Only the DJ. But now that you opened the door, what can I criticize you about? Koalas. That's it. Koala hater!
Denials. Rewritten history. BigK is in Koala fog now.
Believer,
I know what you mean about Plan A being too long. I wish I had done something else sooner. Given my situation, it was not that easy. Even so, I had opportunities but I was just not ready to let go. I now wish I had. An extended Plan A will definitely kill a marriage.
I think in your case a shorter plan A may had caused her to go to PB. If she had gone with him I think you would have had a much harder time to forgive her or take her back.
(Disclaimer: I'm just a MBer's wannabe or wallabie. No part of my MB comments should be taken as serious advice.)
My sister sent me this. I don't find it the least bit funny:
1. How many honest, intelligent, caring men in the world does it take to do the dishes? 2. Why did the man cross the road? 3. Why don't women blink during foreplay? 4. Why does it take 1 million sperm to fertilize one egg? 5. How does a man show that he is planning for the future? 6. What is the difference between men and government bonds? 7. Why are blonde jokes so short? 8. How many men does it take to change a roll of toilet paper? 9. Why is it difficult to find men who are sensitive, caring and good looking? 10. What do you call a woman who knows where her husband is every night? 11. When do you care for a man's company? 12. Why are married women heavier than single women? 13. How do you get a man to do sit-ups? 14. What is the one thing that all men at singles bars have in common? 15. Man says to God: "God, why did you make woman so beautiful?" God says: "So you would love her." "But God," the man says, "why did you make her so dumb?" God says: ….
Answers: 1. Both of them. 2. He heard the chicken was a slut. 3. They don't have time. 4. They don't stop and ask for directions. 5. He buys two cases of beer. 6. The bonds mature. 7. So men can remember them. 8. We don't know; it has never happened. 9. They all already have boyfriends. 10. A widow. 11. When he owns it. 12. Single women come home, see what's in the fridge and go to bed. Married women come home, see what's in bed and go to the fridge. 13. Put the remote control between his toes. 14. They're married. 15. “So she would love you."
Your children have a sister. Think about how they will react in some future if they discover that fact was hidden from them all those years. They are family even though they don't yet know it. I bet they will be excited to have a sister. JMHO.
I heard a different version of the conversation between God and Adam:
God: “Adam, I can create a perfect partner for you. It’s a thing I call “Woman” and she will be smart, beautiful, creative and obedient. She will tend to your needs, be faithful and desire no one but you. She will give you pleasure and make life so much easier for you.” Adam: “Great! I would love to have one of those. What’s the cost?” God: “That’s the tough part. I will require 6 ribs, an arm and a leg.” Adam: “That’s tough…. But what can I get for a couple of ribs?”
“That’s the tough part. I will require 6 ribs, an arm and a leg.”
Since he held on to the arm and the leg, do you think he was planning for the possibility of divorce later? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I agree with Pio about your boys being happy to have a sister.
Yes, the circumstances s..k & your H is a nightmare, so is the OW but the child will need all the love she can get.
My niece is a bit of a screw up. She was not working in high school so my sister (divorced & not remarried at the time) sent her to a private boarding school to ensure she would at least graduate high school. Wrong, she failed english. The school told her if she took an english class & passed they would graduate her from their school.
Should have been a piece of cake. It wasn't. Eventually I had her come live with me over a summer & do nothing but take an english class. She did & passed & was awarded her high school diploma.
She'd met a guy at the boarding school, they developed a relationship. She moved in with him at 19 years old. Met someone else while living with him, moved out to live with the new guy & got pregnant at 21 years old. They got married & divorced in the span of a year. The father is a mess & has given up rights to the daughter. She is now on the verge of moving back in with the guy she was with at 19. He's nice but not in a position to provide for a family. Neither is my niece. She's currently living with my sister.
Too late for a short story here but the daughter is as sweet as can be I & my boys love her more than words can say. She will have great difficulty in her life due to my niece being a screw up but the rest of us in her family will do what ever we can to make her feel loved.
Oh, OK Larousse. I'm glad you cleared that up. I was on the verge of misunderstanding the SF reference. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm fine. Looking forward to Thanksgiving. I'll see my father & my niece's daughter. My boys can't wait to see her. I'm sure they'll scare her at first because they will all want to be close to her & try to play with her. She's almost 1 1/2, cute & sweet as can be.
I too have life without a life. Well, almost. I am corresponding with a man & we spoke on the phone the other night. I HATE the phone & end up feeling like I'm stumbling along being anything but a smooth conversationalist.
I would like to compare notes. I have been going through various threads, reading posts and adding the slightest offensive poster to my ignore list. Some of the "crimes" included:
1. Any degradation of Superman 2. Man jokes 3. Political discussion 4. Anyone else running for President 5. claims that the Little 10 or Little 12 or Pathetic 8 is half as strong as the SEC in college football. 9. Anyone who thinks that a preposition is a bad word to end a sentence with. 10. Conservatives 11. Liberals 12. Being against carpet bombing 13. Against nuclear bombs 14. Taking Einstein's name in vain. 15. Believes in Global Warming 16. Believes in UFO's. 17. Thinks the war in Iraq is due to oil 18. Doesn't believe in Santa Claus
I just checked my ignore filter summary; I have 2,173 members on my ignore list. Am I even in your ballpark with ignores?
Can you define "believes in global warming"? Do you mean "thinks it exists" or do you mean "it is god"? Is it okay to worship global warming or does that get you on the ignore list?
Todd, I'd like to say something to Jen but I'm not so sure she'll be around for a while. If I'm not mistaken you two have emailed each other & I wondered if I could send her an email through you please.
Pio, we too have a trampoline. The boys go in spurts. They love it for a while then don't touch it for what seems like a long time. As soon as I say I'd like to get rid of it they take an immediate interest.
Todd you're full of spunk these days. What's got you all fired up?
Larousse,I think the plummer is looking for a GF, YOU! He seems to spend way too much time "fixing" stuff. Maybe he's just a bad plummer or maybe he can't get enough of you...
Can you define "believes in global warming"? Do you mean "thinks it exists" or do you mean "it is god"? Is it okay to worship global warming or does that get you on the ignore list?
Forgive my lack of clarity. "Believe in GW" means that one believes that "Climate Change" is due to reasons other than long term natural cycles.
Todd, I'd like to say something to Jen but I'm not so sure she'll be around for a while. If I'm not mistaken you two have emailed each other & I wondered if I could send her an email through you please.
Todd you're full of spunk these days. What's got you all fired up?
nams, do you mean other than those who believe in Global Warming, don't believe in Superman or Santa Claus? Oh, I have a new one I almost forgot. If a member does NOT believe in the Loch Ness monster, the creature from the Black Lagoon or Bigfoot (or Sasquatch for our friends in Canuckville), they are placed on my ignore list. That brings the total to 5,659. Never realized how many don't believe in the foregoing super heroes.
I forgot. While everyone believes in the creature from the Black Lagoon and the Loch Ness monster, I am mindful of the fact that many do not believe that Bigfoot exists. I am an Empiricist. I have seen Bigfoot. DS2 and I hiked in the Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest in the Blue Ridge mountains of North Carolina. BTW, if any hikers read this, this is one great hike. The Forest has the largest number of tree species of any area in the US, or perhaps the world, will have to ask DS2. Anyway, we stopped to view a huge poplar tree and less than 50 feet away, standing next to a Eastern Hemlock, was the Foot. He smiled, waved and walked, not ran, away. It still gives me chills to think about it.
Other than Casper and the ghosts in "Ghostbusters", I do not believe in them. I believe I had previously established that I am an Empiricist. Okay, ignore list has now grown to 6,554.
How come your ignore list is bigger than the number of MB forum members?
Simple math. Some members were ignored twice for multiple infractions. For example, if a member believes in ghosts, Global Warming and does not believe in Superman, they are placed on my ignore list three times. Let me veryify my arithmetic: let's see, 1+1 = 2, carry the nine, add the square root of the perfect prime number, divide by zero - no, wait, that cannot be right... Maybe I won't apply for the mathematician job.
I agree with Pio about your boys being happy to have a sister.
Yes, the circumstances s..k & your H is a nightmare, so is the OW but the child will need all the love she can get.
While I understand this sentiment and no disprespect intended, you have NO IDEA until you have experienced it personally the depth of feeling of betrayal when an OC is involved. Please do not preach to Beth about her COM and OC relationship. It is too soon for that. She needs to grieve and be angry and anything else while she assimilates this new depth of the betrayal.
I know that is a serious blow to 2regret and cannot imagine how that must feel. I do have 2 DDs who are very happy they have a half-brother and he is very happy too. Her question was about whether to tell her children. My response was only about them and how I expect they would feel. I don't think it was preaching.
Pio, the thing is a half sibling in this situation is different. This child was born of betrayal to them and their mother. She should not tell her children until that child is proven through DNA that her H is the father. Depending on the age of the children, they should be told age appropriate information about the affair. Children inherently know right from wrong and they KNOW daddy should not have a "girlfriend" (I hate that term). On top of that the pain that Beth is now experiencing is beyond the depths of just the affair. What you "expect" the children to feel in this situation is far different ok? My DD was devastated. I mean absolutely devastated. Why would she feel any other way?
Thank you to everyone who has given me advice since I've been here. I appreciate it and you.
I apparently can't not take one piece of advice and still be supported so I obviously don't belong here on MB or TKO.
KiwiJ, I hope you come back, I'm sorry you were made to feel pushed out because you were trying to help me.
I'm sorry everyone is so stuck on my going to Plan B, but it is not what I need to do yet and I will not do it yet. That is my decision, right or wrong, and I'm going to stick to it.
For the record, I HAVE NEVER SAID MY CASE IS ANY DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE'S. I know that I'm not special when it comes to what I'm going through. But I'm handling it the best way I know how. I'm NOT SCARED of Plan B, it's not necessary for us yet.
Anyway, there's nothing more to be said about my case and nothing I say is going to make anyone see my perception anyway,so I'm going to bow out now, and good luck to everyone; I hope everything works out for all and I will miss you all deeply, I just can't take the tug-of-war anymore.
You're right I don't have any idea how this situation feels to the BS.
I was thinking about my post actually & wondered if I did sound like I was preaching. I hope it doesn't sound that way to Beth because I'm about as far as you can get from the preachy type.
Beth,
Please accept my apology if I've seemed to belittle your feelings. I can't imagine the pain you must be in & I'm sorry you're hurting.
Please know my thoughts are with you & your boys.
You have come across as such a warm, loving, kind person. Strong too. I hope you can get through this with the grace you've so amply shown here.
Here's an opportunity to apply the difference between actions and reactions.
Act, don't react to this situation. Each one is responsible for his or her actions and you are only resposible for yours.
Keep strenghting the resolve you got in the last months and don't feel crushed by different opinions.
The best way to learn MB ideas and to weight the opinions is too learn MB concepts by reading the articles and books and taking Marriage Coaching with The Harley's.
If you were favored by the comments of some experts, I think it was because they saw in you the potential to reach a succesful outcome.
They have been in your shoes and were only trying to avoid you further suffering and to help you to save your marriage.
Well sorry Todd but I do believe in ghosts. It is based on empirical evidence. I lived in a house in Mexico that two guys (albañiles[sic?]) were murdered building and the MIL of the owner died in later. I heard concrete being mixed every night. It was annoying but nothing else. MIL, OTOH, was quite active and did show herself and to a lot of people. She wasn't shy at all. I moved.
I too apologize Beth. I was more disturbed about you finding these things out from a PI than the OC itself. I can't imagine learning those things in such a cold way.
But we are running people away right and left. So I am placing myself on the ignore filter.
You're right I don't have any idea how this situation feels to the BS.
I was thinking about my post actually & wondered if I did sound like I was preaching. I hope it doesn't sound that way to Beth because I'm about as far as you can get from the preachy type.
It's ok Nams, it is a perspective I pray you will never personally know.
Steph, I know you are frustrated. Frankly I check in on this thread for you and for 2much and wanted to say I know probably better than most your dilemna which is why I hope you don't give up getting help. It is ok to ask everyone to back off and let you breathe a little. I have been where you are where the advice is coming fast. Take a breath and just be still for a bit. Be still and let God speak to you. Please consider calling Harley for a game plan if you can afford it. I too hate to see you one day be so exhausted that you no longer love your H. {{steph}}
Well Pio, my dear, my ignore list has grown to 10,285. All that is left are the original members of TKO.
Hear that stph? You are still on my accept list. Know why? Because I know you will be back. There is either something in the air or in the water that is turning people into nasties. Do not let them scare you off and prevent you from getting the support and feedback that you need.
No need to steer clear. I had asked bigK to send you a message yesterday. Hope you got it. I do have an issue with you though. It was something you posted on that thread about "can't believe this statement" or some such. I decided we needed to cut off your head too. But I decided not to post it until I sold my Aquanet stock. I got the sell order in so, once the market opens, I'll feel free to post and line you up for the lopping too.
stph20,
Leaving MB is a bad plan. I know you are frustrated. I recommend you keep posting but post about other things until this settles down. I know in my longish battle I got extremely frustrated and needed to take a break from MB for a while. That was long before this thread. To be honest, I am very unhappy in my personal situation at this moment and that is why you don't see me posting very much about it. It is not that I don't appreciate the help and advice - it is just that I need to be patient right now and rehashing it makes me impatient. So I post about my sling psychrometer - or I WOULD IF PEOPLE WOULD LET ME!!! If your M survives and recovers, MB is a great way to make it better than before. So I hope you stay around.
I would like to ask that we all try to keep the DJ's in check - except for you Todd - I know it is impossible to keep you from DJing me so go right ahead.
larousse,
WW told me something last night that I'm sure you must know about if it is true. She told me about 5 pescadores who got stranded in their launch for 9 months and were picked up off the coast of Australia. Did that really happen?
WW told me something last night that I'm sure you must know about if it is true. She told me about 5 pescadores who got stranded in their launch for 9 months and were picked up off the coast of Australia. Did that really happen?
I know the answer to this one. The truth is there is no way fish can survive out of water that long.
Typical DJ. Have you ever thought about getting a job in a night club?
What, as a bouncer?
BTW, when I read your post about slinging, it made me think of a scene I have seen in the movies many times. A man who is looking for the perfect spot to drill a water well, will hold one of those divine rods in his hands and somehow it magically points downward when there is water 50 feet underground.
WW told me something last night that I'm sure you must know about if it is true. She told me about 5 pescadores who got stranded in their launch for 9 months and were picked up off the coast of Australia. Did that really happen?
Typical Mexican story of national pride. There were only three of them.
Did they start with three or end up with three? WW said one or two got eaten by the others. Maybe they had some Argentinian blood.
On a different note, I have been helping WW with scrapbooking lately and it is really depressing me. I think I now understand why. I was looking at the clothes hamper in DDs' bathroom and noticed it was Ikea style. Then I started looking around at all the Ikea stuff I do have and began thinking of moving some day. It occurred to me that, as convenient as flatpacking is for moving, I hate it. It is just so sterile. There is no craftsmanship - no quality. It is so - average. And then it occurred to me that this is the problem with scrapbooking - I am flatpacking my life.
You need to take up a hobby. I can completely endorse clamp collecting.
Can you explain, in English and in 25 words or less what scrapbooking is? Has there always been scrapbooking? I never heard of it until you posted about it.
Okay I read the story. Can't decide if they were gone for 3 months or 11 months? Didn't anyone back home notice? Sorry but this whole thing sounds "fishy".
I could while away the hours Conferrin' with the flowers Consultin' with the rain And my head, I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin' If I only had a brain.
I'd unravel ev'ry riddle For any individ'le In trouble or in pain
With the thoughts you'd be thinkin' You could be another Lincoln, If you only had a brain.
Oh, I could tell you why The ocean's near the shore, I could think of things I never thunk before And then I'd sit and think some more.
I would not be just a nuffin' My head all full of stuffin' My heart all full of pain. I would dance and be merry Life would be a ding-a-derry If I only had a brain--Whoa!
It seems Mexican men have a proclivity to get lost.
I know what you mean. Gemela says that during her childhood, her father would go missing for weeks and sometimes months at a time. Never went near the water though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
And now part 2 of the quiz. What do you call gradnuncle in English? Is it pigeon peas? Whether that is correct or not, why are pigeon peas called pigeon peas?
Cilantro is cilantro in every country in the free world except the USA where it is indeed "coriander". The USA does not call it "cilantro" because they refuse to pay the royalties to use that word so decided to make up their own.
I can't answer the 2nd question but I do know what I call it when a pidgeon peas on my car window.
Well, in English that is the kitchen gadget one uses to strain water out of a mixture of sorts. For example, if you cook noodles, you simply pour the cooked noodles, water and all, into the coiander, the water passes through unharmed and you are left with waterless noodles.
Based on that statement, you obviously know that I am running for President in 2008. That will be my tagline: Frankly I did not inhale.
Okay Cool, but who is this Frankly guy?
Mrs. W
P.S. You know, even though these are my first posts on TKO, I just wanted to mention that Mr. W and I are avid readers and have both rated this thread FIVE STARS...We know just how much that will mean to Pio...
Well Mexico sure likes to fight. Seems like you forgot Belizé. Maybe you should get the army together and go try to whoop their butts. Oops - forgot - they would have to cross the Chiapas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I assume that Mx does not celebrate victory against the French. That would be like celebrating a Volkswagen rolling down the road. France has never won a battle.
Actually we celebrate the Batalla de Puebla and it's the 5 of May. Which later became the Hispanidad Festivity in US.
May 5 of 1864 the Mexican army defeated Napoleon III army outside the city of Puebla. That was the end of the short Empire of Maximiliano de Habsburgo. Uncle of Francisco José de Habsburgo, who later was murder in 1914. The begining of the WWI.
Small world. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
My Granddad fought against Belize. he was governor of the then Territorio de Quintana Roo. Belize was a British colony. At the end of the Revolution my GrandDad went as manager of one of the Bananera Co. Today Chiquita. In north Belize. My Dad first language is Belize English.
So now Mexico is responsible for starting WW I. Wow. How can you remember all that when you guys can't even remember the Alamo. That's right - the Alamo. I'm talking abotu where Santa Ana and his army killed John Wayne! I'm still pissed about that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
So your Grandad was governor of Quintana Roo? He isn't by any chance the one they have been trying to arrest for the past 10 years is he? Seems like Quintana Roo has gotten into a much more lucrative business than banana trading in the past few years <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You know Pio, you have just said something very interesting. lol
If Maximiliano hadn't accepted Mexico 'Crown' and instead had stayed next to his brother the emperor of the Austro-Hungarians history may had been different. lol
So now Mexico is responsible for starting WW I. Wow. How can you remember all that when you guys can't even remember the Alamo. That's right - the Alamo. I'm talking abotu where Santa Ana and his army killed John Wayne! I'm still pissed about that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Me too. But bering perfectly honest here, I am more upset at them for killing Davy Crockett. That misdeed is unforgiveable.
BTW, I met the "Duke". He filmed most of "The Green Berets" in Georgia and at Ft. Benning. I had the great opportunity of working on that movie, in wardrobe. I also met most of the other stars. John Wayne was bigger than life, in more ways than one.
My Grandadd was one of many local leaders spread around the country. The ones that 'won' the revolution. By 1920 Venustiano Carranza started to kill the same men that had took him to the power and the end of the conflict. To asure the end of the conflict, most local liders, were murdered as Zapata. My GranDad, decided to 'cross' the border instead of been murdered.
The murders of Revolution liders lasted well into 1930's. That's in part how el PRI started it's power.
My GranDad, decided to 'cross' the border instead of been murdered.
Good call!
I don't know about powedered mole. I have bought the mole paste (comes in glass jars). I thought maybe I had bought mole in the hard squares before but now I think I am confusing myself with achiote.
The Revolution started against the 30 years dictatorship of General Porfirio Diaz. Diaz got to the power thanks to his good fame because he had fought against the French in Oaxaca.When He the Armed uprising against him started in 1910, he left the country and was recived with open arms by the same French militar man he had defeated. He lived some more years in Paris and his body is in Pere Lachaise the same cementary where is Jimy Morrison. Lol.
Funny. Gemela and I stayed at the Marriott Riverwalk one time and I told her we should go visit the Alamo. She said "¿con que se come?" She had never heard of the Alamo either. Guess they don't teach that in Mexican history classes. You guys killed one of the greatest movie stars of all time. Got Richard Widmark too!
The stuff that comes in the jars I call mole paste. The stuff that comes in the foil wrapped bricks - I don't really know. Achiote and Maggi come in that same form but I don't know what the word would be. I would cop out and simply say "seasoning". The closest thing we have to that would be boullion cubes.
Larousse Melody Lane said it best yesterday on this thread, TKO. It is her Husbands second affair. He came home without permission and without agreeing to anything other than to have his cake and eat it too. He has daily contact with OW. Affair will NEVER end under these circumstances and Stef is just enabling his behaviour. I cannot in all good conscience just sit and watch and pat her on the head and say it will all work out all right because it won't.
The OW leaving for a new job in January (was supposed to be November) is a LIE of her WH or wishful thinking.
Stef at this point is setting herself for a huge fall. Her H is a serial cheat. He will do this again if she allows her marriage to continue while expecting so little of him in recovery. He11 - look at Gemella - she is doing everything she can and Pio is unmoved - that's what happens when a BS stays in Plan A too long.
My views on Plan B are shared by a lot of my MB friends in direct regard to Stef's situation. I would trust people like Mr & Mrs W, ML, Noodle with my life. I LISTEN to them because I respect them and their experience. Stef thinks she is a special case and that not following the best available advice will get her what she wants. It will not. She is on a path to disappointment and false recovery.
Well let me just throw this out there in the spirit of "blue sky thinking". [sorry - saw that on BBC the other day and I love the expression]. Stph20 has a very active thread with a lot of very talented people posting on it. How about maybe we let her have TKO as a sanctuary away from all the M/A/D talk. Because quite frankly - and I don't think I'm alone here - I have many unanswered NASCAR questions and our resident expert has just done a runner.
BTW, can anyone tell me what I just said? I can't see it - I'm ignoring myself.
My DDs play all the time. Sometimes even nicely - but usually not. Whenever things start to get out of hand, the one on the losing end at the moment runs over and jumps on me declaring me to be "base". If you're on "base", you're untouchable. I hate being base - especially with a broken toe - and extra-especially when one of them decides to go sliding in to base.
I'm fighting with DD1 right now. She refuses to do her french homework. I respect that decision but WW makes me insist that DD do french homework. So I have to speak french with her. Better than ipecac. Great for the diet. So I told DD last night that I didn't see any point in paying for her french classes if she didn't want to learn it. WW advised me she was paying for the french classes. Never mind.
Sorry but your spelling can in no way be considered offensive. People who didn't speak Spanish (and know YOU were speaking Spanish) would have no clue what you are saying.
Larousse - What incentive does her husband have to enforce NC? He can remain in contact with no consequences.
Stef misguidedly thinks her Husband is on the same page she is with respect to this. She uses statements like "we are working on this together" or "we are doing the best we can until she leaves" This is just pure and simple wishful thinking. He H is in an active affair until NC is established. NC should be a boundary for her. He is in an active affair, will not withdraw and will do nothing to work on their marriage apart from talking about it.
I am not gonna post any more of Stef's situation on this thread now Larousse in deference to Pio's suggestion assuming she returns. Let's use Stef's own thread OK?
I am not gonna post any more of Stef's situation on this thread now Larousse in deference to Pio's suggestion assuming she returns. Let's use Stef's own thread OK?
I am oh so glad you added that caveat. You were just about to get hammered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hey, that just made me think - many tool things are euphamisms for other things:
Todd's libertarian spirit doesn't match his spending liberalism. He prohibited all computers, paper spend, phones, ad. This is going to be the cheapest campaing in USA history.
I see your second president was sworn in as president of his parallel government. Does this mean they have to build a new casa blanca or will he just set up his tent right next to the old one? I gotta tell you that, from the outside, Obrador looks like he is a couple of tamales shy of a buffet.
I know the zócalo very well. I always stayed at the Majestic Hotel when I was in Mexico City. It has a roof top restaurant that gives a great view of the zócalo, the catedral and the really big flag.
BTW, zócalo is pretty much a Mexican Spanish word from my experience. I admit I haven't been to all the Spanish speaking countries but in all the other ones I have been in, nobody understands "zócalo".
We have a small problem and I think I may need another hamster cage. Mama hamster is now spending 24/7 trying to chew through the metal bars. The six little baby hamsters are now venturing out and eating lettuce and you can hear their little razor sharp teeth. I can't imagine how her breast feeding six of them at a time must feel. Ouch! At first I thought she was just suffering post-partum depression but now I'm not so sure. Poor papa hamster can't get anywhere near her and is relegated to his little corner of the penthouse. Poor little guy only comes down for water and, if mama happens to be at the dish and he starts to come up behind her, well, she lets him know in no uncertain terms that he is not welcome in that proximity.
I think she is wondering now whether she wants to have any more kids or if twelve (less the four she ate) is enough. If they have more kids, they would just need to move to a bigger cage. So much more to take care of and she looks pretty tired all the time as it is. She doesn't even bother to groom herself any more. She is full of grey hairs. Quite frankly I don't think mama and papa are getting along all that well. He never seems to help with the kids. I just don't know what to do.
Where is everyone? The guys are here. Well the BigK will be shortly. Only larousse represents the softer side of TKO. I assume larousse is a female - duck!
2much, 2regret, luna(did you leave your heart in SF or all of you?), stph, nams - where the heck are the ladies of TKO? Sounds like a pictorial layout in Playboy magazine: Girls of the Southeast conference. Anyway, I seek volunteers to work in my campaign headquarters. You do not need to be political nor is it necessary that you believe or support Libertarianism. You should be verbally compelling so you can motivate folks to at least think through their positions on problems we face as a country. The pay is non-negotiable: zero. Zilch. nada.
Any volunteers? I can direct you to the local campaign headquarters in your area.
And stph: six days and counting. If you are not back on TKO in six days, I will leave TKO and MB for good. My way of protesting the shoddy way in which you were treated. Please come back: Pio needs me.
You observation was right. The RAE, Dictionary of the Real Academia Española says that only in México, the RAE writes (Méjico) zócalo is used to describe the main plaza of a city. I'm almost sure that the only central plaza called zócalo is the one in Mx. City.
I like the Majestic main hall.
Zócalo. From latin socculus, the soccus, zueco. Lower part of a building. Base for a statue. Lower strip of painting on a wall.
Todd,
If your volunteers look like Playboy pictorial you can consider yourself President of the southeast conference. I should excuse of voluntering for you. I'm in a further Southeast and when I talk I appreciate if the man keeps his eyes in my face instead of my frontal assets. Thanks anyway.
2regret is taking time for herself because she got some really bad news. Luna is still in SF AFAIK. I'm not sure about 2much and larousse can't keep your working hours. Heck - nobody can. Come to think about it I'm not really sure that larousse is a woman. I just always assumed that but can't remember why. I guess larousse COULD be a man ... a really strange man.
I agree that stph20 was treated pretty badly. Whether right or wrong, it was cruel in the manner in which it was done. I find this particularly distasteful since she had her own thread specifically to discuss her sitch where plenty of people were posting and I understand she was posting in yet another forum where she was getting similar advice so it looked to me that people were simply trying to run her off. Whether they were or not, that was the result. So I agree with you. If stph20 doesn't post within six days, I'm leaving too. But don't worry Todd, you'll always be in my thoughts and my dreams (sorry - OM wrote that to gemela and I just liked it).
Oh Please guys. Stef is throwing herself under a bus and you wanna buy front-row seats? Gimme a break.
Hopefully Stef can differentiate between my support for HER and my non-support of her actions. Seen the results of inaction too often. MB is full of such cases. But I will support Stef herself regardless of her decisions regarding her WH.
But I will never sit idly by and pat her on the head when I see her throwing herself over a cliff. I cut off contact with such people who enabled my wife's affair and would not stand up for good.
You guys have discovered my little secret. My name is Jean Paul and my more famous movie Les 400 coups. I did get a really nice imitation of a high pitch voice.
If Steph comes back Pio may promise not to make her cry, for a while, that's it.
Let's not distract here. I am not advocating what stph20 is doing in any way shape or form. that is not what is at issue. I think stph20 was getting all that advice on her thread and also on another forum. it just looked to me like the police were trying to hunt her down and give her no place to hide. I read those posts to her. They were very cruel. Sorry but they were. I am especially upset by the post ML wrote and then edited (I still have the original and read it every day). I can repost it if you have forgotten.
OTOH, I have been doubting the value of me being here as well for quite some time. It's probably just a matter of time before the police come after me too.
Pio - ML's edited post was to KiwiJ I thought? Did she delete and edit another one? Stef needs a safe place for sure. But she wants approval for her actions not support. There are many people who's actions I disagree with on MB but I can still support them. Stef can't differentiate.
But I will never sit idly by and pat her on the head when I see her throwing herself over a cliff
For the record, it wasn't your post that bothered me. It must be frustrating to know what a newly minted BS should do, to dispense advice and be ignored. All I am saying is the solution is not to ignore stph, or stop giving advice, or to post garbage that runs her off. I can see no linkage between that and helping her. What she needs is support and repetition.
and what she needs is people to stop posting advice contradictory to MB all in the name of support when all it allows is her to feel validated and justified in her indecision.
I think I have been repetitive Todd. I am very distressed Stef wants to leave. Being ignored doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's her life. Being told I am unsupportive because I won't support her actions does bother me. I am there for her regardless of what she does but I am not her friend if I enable her.
BigK, honestly, I wouldn't even bother with her anymore; it is hopeless. She does not want to be helped, she wants her WS at any and all cost. This has been explained to her endlessly and she simply refuses to listen. Her case is "different."
*************previously edited********
BigK, I know it kills you to watch her behave so stupidly, but please go help someone who really wants help. There are so many desperate ppl on this forum who really do want and need help.
Now, can you read that and honestly tell me stph should not be offended by that? Maybe I'm just stupid. Todd seems to think so anyway. Maybe he's right. Just because you talk about her in the third person, does that mean she shouldn't take it personally? To me, that is even worse than telling it to her face. JMVHO.
But she wants approval for her actions not support.
Okay fair enough. But is the solution to give up on her? Is th solution for ML to publicly thrash her without mercy? ML's post was silly and uncalled for. Or is it to continue to give advice, direction and feedback until she gets it? She is very young and has experienced much trauma. If she is in denial whether in her own fog, or for whatever reason, she needs support more than ever.
Can you please explain specifically what you are talking abotu and who you are acusing or do you just want to make inflammatory comments? I would be very interested in facts.
Let's not distract here. I am not advocating what stph20 is doing in any way shape or form. that is not what is at issue. I think stph20 was getting all that advice on her thread and also on another forum. it just looked to me like the police were trying to hunt her down and give her no place to hide. I read those posts to her. They were very cruel. Sorry but they were. I am especially upset by the post ML wrote and then edited (I still have the original and read it every day). I can repost it if you have forgotten.
First off, I did not write a "cruel" post to Steph, and secondly, piojitos, I certainly admit I lashed out at Jen in anger, but went back and deleted it.
piojitos, I have agreed to stay off your thread, and would like to do so, but not if you are going to come over here, when you know I have agreed to leave, and trash me. If anyone here is being "cruel" it is those who are "supporting" Steph in ignoring some simple basic MB principles.
Todd, did you not read Kiwi's posts to her? They were not supportive of MB principles at all. In fact. no Matter what Big K said, she said the opposite.
And you call my comment inflammatory when your good buddy Pio posted a post that ML edited. I do believe that is way more inflamatory.
Todd, Pio, I will happily continue to post to Stef on her own thread and leave this place as a safe place for her to post. I NEVER indicated I would EVER do otherwise. I never abandoned her. She decided to stop posting. I will not however enable her.
I have not, am not, and will not give up on her.
Pio, I did read that post (never saw the original). ML does not want that to stay she only wanted KiwiJ to see it. You may want to consider deleting it.
Regardless of what you said to KiwiJ, your post clearly says that spth20 is a waste of time, hopeless and stupid. Ignore what you wrote to KiwiJ. Read the rest.
Where on this thread are people telling stph to stay in Plan A?
Regardless of what you said to KiwiJ, your post clearly says that spth20 is a waste of time, hopeless and stupid. Ignore what you wrote to KiwiJ. Read the rest.
Absolutely, and I meant every word. However, I did not say SHE is hopeless, but "IT" is hopeless, which it is if she continues to go along with her H's continued contact with OW.
Unfortunately, she is not hearing anything that disagrees with that path, except from BigK who appears to be the lone ranger, on this thread. No one here seems to be helping her GET that.
Todd, did you not read Kiwi's posts to her? They were not supportive of MB principles at all. In fact. no Matter what Big K said, she said the opposite.
And this means what?
Quote
And you call my comment inflammatory when your good buddy Pio posted a post that ML edited. I do believe that is way more inflamatory.
I am not sure that I called your post inflammatory but then that is one of the few virtues of a shattered memory. I can commit no good and have no remorse because I don't remember it. And in no way is Pio's repost of "the" post ML made inflammatory. ML made the post, not Pio. Pio posted it to help clarify what was said to the BigK.
Todd, here is your initial post to me " moveforward,
Can you please explain specifically what you are talking abotu and who you are acusing or do you just want to make inflammatory comments? I would be very interested in facts. "
Unfortunately, she is not hearing anything that disagrees with that path, except from BigK who appears to be the lone ranger, on this thread. No one here seems to be helping her GET that.
The BigK is the man for the job. I have the highest regard for BigK and his knowledge of MB principles. I am hardly an MB scholar or even a devotee or the principles. Unfettered and continuous advice from the BigK can only help stph, if she comes back. If she does not, I am outta here.
They're coming to take me away, HA HA They're coming to take me away, HO HO HEE HEE HA HA To the funny farm Where life is beautiful all the time And I'll be happy to see Those nice, young men In their clean, white coats And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!
To the happy home With trees and flowers and chirping birds And basket weavers who sit and smile And twiddle their thumbs and toes And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!
To the funny farm Where life is beautiful all the time And I'll be happy to see Those nice, young men In their clean, white coats And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!
Can you please explain specifically what you are talking abotu and who you are acusing or do you just want to make inflammatory comments? I would be very interested in facts. "
You are saying that I posted that? Hang on, I just took one of my little pills. Think I will take a second one. This could be fun!
Well, thankfully my posts have not been inflamatory. I must not have been reading the tough stuff.
I burned my lip the other day; my car got creamed by a runaway shopping cart, my garage door halfway fell down tonight, my pantyhose were crooked today, my office was 80 degrees today, my luggage is totally unpacked for my diplomatic mission Wednesday, my tickets to the theatre are for tomorrow night, my daughter's modeling portfolio is to be photographed Saturday while I am in the Far Kingdom, my son has no one coming to Grandpals Day tomorrow, my children have dentist appts tomorrow, my daughter has a psychiatrist appt tomorrow, I have to work half a day tomorrow, I am behind at work but leave midday tomorrow and don't return till Tuesday, my telephone gets a dial tone occaisionally and only occaisionally receives calls despite a service call by the phone company a week ago, I had to buy a new cordless phone because one of my old ones had been injured when the dog chewed up the antenna, I don't have pet sitting arranged for while I travel, and I am tired of eating homemade vegetable soup.
Can I pile on? My girls are still hurting from the mammogram a month ago. My baked potato was not cooked all the way through. Vandy beat the Dawgs this season. Do you get the import of that? Every SEC team has homecoming when they play Vandy. Usually works. I had a flat tire on my car today. No wait, I don't have a flat tire. I don't have a car. I am entering posts I don't remember. They are coming to take me away.
Pio, don't let 'em take me away. I hate the funny farm.
I preffer to stick to someone of the opposite sex. Besides Bigk must be really mean to dislike koalas. I wouldn't like to be on the wrong side of his friends.
Ok, just in case it works:
Pio don't go please. You give great advice, even your advice to you had improved so much.
Pio, I won't be mean to you that often. I won't look at plummers cracks.
Okay, I am in Retreat at the moment and I am not even French!
Trouble is they give me an hour a day to use the internet so can't stay long. I peeped at TKO tonight and am totally destroyed by all that I am reading.
You all have to be here when I return - PLEASE ! I will need everyone of you. I think we all hurt a little more when it is Holiday time with all the associated memories etc. Emotions run high.
They are going to pull the plug on me. Come back Steph! Don't go Pio or Todd.
See you ALL soon. Hopefully I will be sane and in better spirits.
I think we need a song Todd. How about Come Together Now!!
I generally don't like to delete my posts so I won't but I posted to you with a story that doesn't relate to yours at all. Please ignore when you read it, if you do, & find yourself saying, huh?
Please know I have nothing but good thoughts for you & your boys during this horrendous time.
You walked into the party like you were walking onto a yacht Your hat strategically dipped below one eye Your scarf it was apricot You had one eye in the mirror as you watched yourself gavotte And all the girls dreamed that they'd be your partner They'd be your partner, and...
You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you Don't you? Don't You?
You had me several years ago when I was still quite naive Well you said that we made such a pretty pair And that you would never leave But you gave away the things you loved and one of them was me I had some dreams, they were clouds in my coffee Clouds in my coffee, and...
You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you Don't you? Don't You? Don't You?
I had some dreams they were clouds in my coffee Clouds in my coffee, and...
You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you Don't you? Don't You?
Well I hear you went up to Saratoga and your horse naturally won Then you flew your lear jet up to Nova Scotia To see the total eclipse of the sun Well you're where you should be all the time And when you're not you're with Some underworld spy or the wife of a close friend Wife from a close friend, and...
You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you Don't you? Don't You? Don't you?
You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you
Have you see the little piggies crawling in the dirt And for all the little piggies Life is getting worse Always having dirt to play around in
Have you see the bigger piggies In their starched white shirts You will find the bigger piggies Stirring up the dirt Always have clean shirts to play around in
In their sties with all their backing They don't care what goes on around In their eyes there's something lacking What they need's a darn good whacking
Everywhere there's lots of piggies Living piggy lives You can see them out for dinner With their piggy wives Clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon
Ok, can you people not behave for one minute??? Can't we all play nice in the sandbox? You all act like you're sensitive for some reason...what's up with that? Seems like there are some trust issues and possibly something much deeper?
Hmmmmm...lots of stuff happening lately I see...
Beth, I am sorry you have to go through the issues you are dealing with, my prayers are with you. You sound like a rock as far as your outlook on life goes. I hope that after your grief and anger there will be something positive in it for you to find...if there is I know you will find it!
Regarding all the squabbling about advice...this is not my thread so I just toss my 2cents in here and there...everyone knows we are the toys from misfit island here so...we are all protective of each other and want to see everyone find a little piece of happiness regardless of their sitch. I can say that had I not thought I was different or that MB principles could be chosen and picked cafeteria style I may have spared myself lots of heartache and a lot of WH cake eating time. OTOH, the extra time may not have helped my marriage but it helped me prepare for what I am dealing with now...which is basically a nightmare. Plan A proved to me that I am worth something more than I thought, that I can basically do anything with the help of God and support of folks like you on TKO. The extra Plan A time for me did squash my feelings of love for my H but it gave me time to work on me, to see that no matter how wonderful I was and how many opportunities I put out there that the WH was just that.
I unfortunately have learned most of life lessons through the school of hard knocks. I often times need things to be proven to me or see them at work producing results. I have difficulty believing without seeing. I have never been good at giving up...which is how I viewed plan B. I was also petrified to put plan B in motion with my kids interest in mind. Was I right, wrong, indifferent????
I can't say but I'm still here. I haven't gone off the deep end yet despite all the pushing. Why? Because regardless of how my behavior may have frustrated people here I was still given the hugs and support along with some 2x4's to help me remain strong.
We are family and it is Thanksgiving time where I come from...I am thankful for all of you here on MB/TKO, whether I agree with you or not, for taking the time to post, for showing us all sides of the situations and possibilities, for putting yourselves out there with all the personal information and heartache it must be to relive some of the lower moments of your stories for all of us to benefit from.
I am thankful for freedom of speech and expression and the privilige to threaten Todd and his lyrics and Pio and his pink shorts and bust on Nams plumber's crack and Larousse's Tequila habit and Booka's testosterone rush...need I say more
Thanks guys...hugz and luv...keep on wrasslin
PS. Don't you get higher star ratings with more contraversy? Just a thought for Pio the star hater
Thanks for your mention of me and my testosterone rush continues on. I have accepted an invitation for the holiday with two of my sisters and am pleased to be invited. My family has become more important to me with the recent events and I hope to reconnect and undo any old damage. I feel that I have been indifferent to my family for years and now is the time for me to step up.
I have been out of the house for over two weeks now and find that my current stage involves anger. I don't express my anger to its target or anyone else for that matter, but I cuss under my breath all of the time.
On a lighter note, I made an offer yesterday for the new house that I have been looking at. I will receive a counter-offer today, so it looks like things will be progressing.
I have been visiting the old homestead on weekends to pick up belongings and to converse with STBXW and my daughter. I have been taking DD13 out to dinner once a week and tonight is our night to do so.
I'm excited about the house, but have a lot o work ahead of me to complete this transaction. The good news is that it is a project that fulfils of lot of what I need right now. My mood is generally good. One day at a time...
I haven't ever replied on this thread. But having read these last few pages felt compelled to do so. What some of the so-called oldtimers forget is that we as spouses know our H or W much better than anyone on a message board does. Even the Harleys' will tell you there is no cut and dry way to handle this situation. MY dh and I are 8 years past all of the affair crap. AND HE HAD TO, THROUGH CIRCUMSTANCES BEING WHAT THEY WERE,WORK WITH OW FOR OVER A YEAR AFTER DDAY. But, he was commited to US and here we are now. Happy, moved way past it, and totally commited to each other. So for anyone to say that someone on this board is "beyond hope' because complete NC is not an option is ludicrous. Sometimes NC is not an option. It is easier for recovery if it is. But not always possable.
Hang in there Booka...I have tons of anger but like you no real venue to express it. I am thinking of taking up boxing or shooting either one will be a good release...for now I settle for running but it just doesn't seem to get it. My DD2 has been expressing her anger through artwork and I must say she is fantastic...I would have her sell her work except that it has way too much significance to me and her both!
I must confess, I drank a cognac in your honor the other day but was too sad to finish it and dumped it out...I know, that is unheard of but I have been having great swings in emotion over a matter of hours...most likely the Holiday, infidelity, divorce mix...I'da know, maybe I'm just hormonal
Good luck with the house and enjoy the family...it is always good to renew old bonds with family. Happy Thanksgiving.
Thank you, Todd. I just hate it when people deal in absolutes. There are no absolutes when it comes to human emotions. Hope all is well with you and I hope to see steph back. And please don't allow anyone to be chased off by any other poster. It is best to just take the advice that you feel will be helpful to your situation and ignore the rest.
Thank you cherise. I also detest absolutes. Absolutes will always get one in trouble. Wait, that's an absolute itself...
I think Harley would be the first to admit that when it comes to psychology and the study of human behavior, there are some principles, but they are hardly carved in bedrock like, oh let's say, principles of physics are. Yet, there are those who peddle arrogance instead of good solid advice.
Exactly, although there are alot of similarities in most affair behaviors, the actions and reactions of all parties are unpredictable... because people in themselves are. Each betrayed partner has to constantly 'tweak' their own plan for recovery to adjust to this.
And by the way, what about the affairs where a child becomes involved. You wouldn't just tell the BS to just give it up because there is going to be contact.
I don't believe I posted this previously but if so, please ignore this.
DS1 and I are no longer going to the South Carolina coast for TG. He reinjured his back again and cannot sit for the car drive. He originally hurt in while on a deep sea photoshoot and when he stepped off the boat onto the dock, there was something slippery on the dock and his feet literally came out from under him. He is in mortal pain right now.
So, new plans are for DS1 and I to go out to dinner for a traditional TG dinner. Meanwhile, WW is again back with her BF. BF and her boyfriend are in Florida. So, WW has the run of her house and according to DS3, is hosting TG dinner there. BTW, forgot to mention, BF was at a Halloween Party, got very drunk, fell as broke her shoulder. No comment.
I haven't had a cognac in years, but appreciate our sentiment. I will hoist a glass of red wine in our honor this evening. I am sorry you are going through such trying times. The holidays have always been difficult or me, but maybe they'll improve for me this year. Stick to your running as it should help to even your emotions. I wnet out for a 1-hour walk up and down many hills last night in some very cold weather. The night was calm and still and it helped me to feel that way also.
I juist recieved a counter-offer on the house and am prepared to file my counter-offer. Here is a link to the house.
And by the way, what about the affairs where a child becomes involved. You wouldn't just tell the BS to just give it up because there is going to be contact.
Cherise, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. There are BS's that have C with the OC without ever having contact with the OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I get pretty angry when people spout about what they have no experience with.
BTW, the presence of an OC is a unique situation that the BS needs to consider long and hard before deciding to continue the M. So there you are making assumptions after you judged others for doing so.
Actually, FF, You are very, very wrong. I have SO much experience dealing with this. My oldest Grandchild, Randal is an OC. Before he died my son adopted him. He is a child who grew in my heart. So, I have been on almost all sides of this equation.
My ignore list has grown exponentially over the last few days. Keeping up with TKO is not so difficult any longer. I am doing my best to catch up with you. My current list is 14,730. Am I even close to you yet?
What, just because I had been a BW for 4 years when this happened, was I supposed to be the god-awful MIL who simply says DIL was this terrible person!Leave her! Or have done what I did, which was introduce them HERE. They recovered their marriage and went on to have two more beautiful children. Never assume anything. And I stand by my statement that there are no absolutes. And if I know nothing about all this, I wouldn't have just celebrated the eighth anniversary of recoverey! We are happy and at peace. Wishing peace to all out there also. Perservere and be kind to all!!!!
I am back in town... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
...the 'emotionometer' of this thread... it's in the 'danger' zone...people are ALL over the place! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Here's a question for you all to think about: you can run your life based on 'thermometer' or a 'thermostat' theory.... what's the difference? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
...gotta go now....but will be back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
1. Dr Harley clearly and unambiguously says NC is essential to recover
2. Your membership of a group of 0.05% IMO of "successful" recoveries with on-going contact merely proves the rule that recovery is impossibile with ongoing contact
3. NC is NEVER impossible. Maybe inconvenient or costly but NEVER impossible
4. Your support or contact in recovery to Stef may well make her feel better about what she is doing but it will not enable her to join your exclusive group. It is therefore very damaging to her chances of recovery.
5. If you want to continue this discussion, by all means let's but not here on TKO. Pio wants this thread to be a safe haven for Stef.
DS1 just called. I am late getting my monthly MRI. I scheduled a scan for tomorrow and DS3 will take me. DS1 is still flat on his back. It's in the AM again so I should hear something before TG.
What, just because I had been a BW for 4 years when this happened, was I supposed to be the god-awful MIL who simply says DIL was this terrible person!Leave her! Or have done what I did, which was introduce them HERE. They recovered their marriage and went on to have two more beautiful children. Never assume anything. And I stand by my statement that there are no absolutes. And if I know nothing about all this, I wouldn't have just celebrated the eighth anniversary of recoverey! We are happy and at peace. Wishing peace to all out there also. Perservere and be kind to all!!!!
I never said kick your DIL to the curb. That was your son's choice to save his M. His sit is different BTW because there is still not the interference of the OP where the child is concerned. In my situation OW has continually used OC as her negotiating tool to continue the A. Because she is the mother there would be some sort of C with either the BS or the FWS would need to have some sort of C with the OW until the OC came of age. Can you still honestly say now that you have been on all sides of it? Do you have to live with the anguish of your H having a child with the OW the rest of your life. Believe me the cut runs deep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
obviously it was all your fault. As soon as you left chaos started. Todd had a change of sex operation. Nams is a mass produced ceramic vendor. 2Much throws cognac out the window.
I am shocked and amazed that posters cannot see their post for what it is, cannot recognize how someone might be offended by it and then try to defend it. Stph20 has a whole thread dedicated to her sitch. Nobody her was giving her direct advice as to what action to take except BigK and another person who is now gone as a result of an action that is now quietly covered up and not allowed to be mentioned ever again. The rest of us left stph20 and her sitch to her thread. Other people brought it here.
IMHO, stph20 deserves an apology.
stph20,
I hope you come back.
Beth,
Thanks for the email. You fight dirty. I respect that BTW. Don't worry about the email. It is a shared account between gemela and me so she can read it any time she wants. I won't delete it because I have to be transparent too. For some reason you remind me of Sandra Bullock in 28 Days. Don't know why.
Okay, these lyrics are dedicated to Luna in celebration of her recent SF. Trip.
Puncuation is everything, isn't it?
I feel the earth move under my feet I feel the sky tumbling down I feel my heart start to trembling Whenever you're around
Oh, baby, when I see your face Mellow as the month of May Oh, darling, I can't stand it When you look at me that way
I feel the earth move under my feet I feel the sky tumbling down I feel my heart start to trembling Whenever you're around
Oh, darling, when you're near me And you tenderly call my name I know that my emotions Are something that I just can't tame I've just got to have you, baby
I feel the earth move under my feet I feel the sky tumbling down, tumbling down I feel the earth move under my feet I feel the sky tumbling down, tumbling down
I just lose control Down to my very soul I get hot and cold all over
I feel the earth move under my feet I feel the sky tumbling down Tumbling down Tumbling down Tumbling down Tumbling down
How many members are on your ignore list? Thank you for reminding me about the ignore list capability. My quality of life has doubled since I started using it.
At the moment there is only one person on my ignore filter list and that person has been there for a week or two. Can't remember how long. I am contemplating adding two more. Probably will. I tried to put bigK on the ignore list but he just sends emails so I didn't see the benefit. Man is that guy ever persistent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Good that you are back. That saves humanity a lot of pain. Imagine Todd without you wandering in cyberworld. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Todd, my youngest shattered his low spine and right hip and entire femer and leg while at school. He was in full body cast for a year and had ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF pt TO GET THROUGH THIS. He is in track this year. It is 5 years later. Don't give up hope. And my doc when I gave birth to my oldest said he didn't feek I could have more, {I have three more boys} They, the docs at the time said he would never walk again. They were wrong. He may not win all the time.... but he is a winner!!!!!!!!! Never give up. And never predict your full happiness for the future, It kinda sneaks up on kids feet!
In August 2005, my family was told to say their goodbyes to me as I laid in a coma. They had given up on me. I am still here. Of course, I had no idea what was going on.
When I was young, the doctors said I would never walk "normally" again. Well, okay, they got that one right. Nah, just kidding.
I was trying to remember Macluhan* most cited quote.
"The form is the message."
Not sure how to translate that correctly. Meaning the form (paper, radio, tv) determines the message. I think that we had a situation where the message was overcome by the form, emotional, in which it was delivered.
I would like to see Kiwi back and that she could adress her discomfort or whatever it is with the person who she may think she has to do it.
I also think that with time we get too 'familiar' and sometimes we deliver the message in a way that could sound too strong for newer people.
In situation like this I would like to be a man. Most seem much less reactive. Except Pio of course. Well. Good thing that I'm been ignored by him because I can talk bad about his dress taste.
I did get an email from stph20 calling me all sorts of nasty names. It was my fault. I forgot to sign my email to her with my screen name and she confused me with Todd. Todd, I won't tell you what she said about you but it wasn't pretty and I'm not even sure the human body is capable of that.
stph, you only have five days to prevent Pio and I from leaving TKO and MB for good. Just think: all the effort I put into building my ignore list would have been in vain.
Someone doesn't get the nickname "Fireball" by being the best driver ever - they get it by being the worst driver ever.
Allright Pio, choose your weapon.
Let it be known that he was called Fireball before he went out in a fireball.
BTW, when I was a teen, I had a part-time job on Saturdays selling women's shoes. I would run to the stockroom in the back and come running out with twenty shoe boxes in my hands. One of the other guys nicknamed me "Fireball".
That was Tom Clancy's best book. They went downhill after that. They got so ridiculous that they can't even make movies out of them any more. I loved the book and am so-so on the movie. I have it on DVD but don't watch it much. There is something wrong with the sound. The voice and background don't match at all. If I play it loud enough to hear the dalogue, a loud background noise will shake the TV off the wall. The only way I can watch it is to play it low with subtitles.
At the moment I have 6 DVD players not counting two on the computers. This DVD acts the same on all 8 of them. It is the only DVD I have that behaves this way. There is only one logical solution - buy another DVD player.
It has always sounded great on any sound system I have played it on.
I love the movie and the book. I love Sean Connery. Although I have heard recently that he beats his wife. Or does he cheat on her? One or the other. Cannot remember.
Thunder and Lighting (the vowelled version of her screen name) posted to me earlier today. I am not sure if she insulted me or complimented me. You know my limitations. Please tell me which? Does my ignore list need to grow?
I saw that post. At best it is non-sequitur. I could find no relevant context for it. I could go either way. I say go ahead and be offended just to be safe.
BTW, don't watse your time trying to put her on your ignore list. I've been trying for the better part of six months with no success. Darn screen name is impossible to spell. We just have to put up with her I guess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It is 5 days and counting - not 6 and I still only have one poster on my ignore list and since I see that person is again posting on this thread, I'll leave the "ignore" in place.
Cut me some slack - I even took lemonman off my ignore list. I think that was a nice gesture. Sadly one must remain.
Cut it away Somebody cut away this desperate heart Cut it away And help me find my way back to the start Yeah, before I knew what I was looking for Yeah, when we were lovers and nothing more I wanted you And I did everything that I could do To capture you I let you see The part of me You'd want to see A fantasy I'm finding now I don't know how To make it good I wish I could Cut it away This crazy longing for something more Cut it away The question I don't have an answer for Why I hunger For something I can't see Cut it away The dream I wanted life to be I know I've got to let you go I know You should have left a long time ago Protected by the night Two cities lay Two hearts, two lives Connected by our sight Worlds away Two hearts, two lives Inspected by the light Two hearts, two cities in decay Two lives Repair them as we might Two hearts Just go on crumbling Now come on Cut it away I want to cut away this thing inside Cut it away This thing that hid from you and schemed and lied I know I've got to let you go I know You should have left a long time ago Cut it away Somebody cut away this desperate heart Cut it away Before it tears my whole life apart I love you I love you still I do I always will
Well the events of the past day still have me very upset and there is only one thing I have to say to each and every one of you: you can *********************************
I am of the opinion that 99.9% of cited statistics are bogus.
Quote
Your membership of a group of 0.05%...
Do you have a source for this? Todd and I are still debating the 85% recovery rate. Actually cc46 had compiled some really great statistics - probably the most credible I have ever seen. Wonder if I can find them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I dunno about the 85% either. Given that Pittman says that the only cause of divorce in long term marriages is infidelity and also that the divorce rate is 50% it sort of doesn't see right to me.
I guess with the 0.05% I am guessing that the chances of recovering a marriage where there is ongoing contact is like the chances of finding a sasquatch or of KiwiJ actually being a FWW.
So the odds are 20:1 against your statistic being correct.
The problem I have with the Pittman (or Harley statistic for that matter) is that the 85% is based on a population of those who sought counseling. There is no speculation as to the percentage of marriages infected by infidelity that sought counseling. I further complicate this by considering the economic factor. Since counseling is expensive, how many don't go because they can't afford it. Or mind set - many people simply don't believe in counseling. So what percentage of the total infidel population seeks counseling of which 85% survive? Nobody (except cc46) seems to hazard a guess. Does Dr. Glass have a stat?
Interestingly I was watching National Geographic last night and there was a program about bigfoot. There was a portion about a guy (can't remember his name) who has dedicated his entire life in the search for bigfoot. He is quite old now so I guess he has been looking a long time. This caused several things to occur to me. I won't go into them other than to say I'm not the only one who won't remember his name.
To an extent, I'm this same way about big bang theory. So we learn about the birth of the universe - will it affect who wins the Super Bowl? Don't think so. Then I think about universities. All that knowledge stored away but so inefficiently transferred. Did I mention we heavily subsidize a local university? We are spending megamoney to fund research on something that is likely impossible to build but, more importantly, we know we can never use. And it is comical to watch this great team of doctors. The stories I could tell. But I'm rambling now.
Actually I agree Pio. I don't think that those who go for counselling are representative of the general population. I always used to assume counselling was for the feeble minded.
But why do you think that more people who are screwing around would seek counselling than those who don't seek counselling? Do you think 85% is too high? I do just by looking at the divorce rate.
At best, 85% is a convoluted statistic. People who are in counseling are, by definition, looking for an alternative to separation/divorce. So only 85% who don't want divorce (if we believe the number) are successful. That is both good and bad. I don't think people who seek counseling are a representative demographic. I think they are highly skewed to a certain education/religion/economic/family history combination of factors. Even cultural factors may have bearing. I have no opinion on this but maybe larousse can tell us if a large percentage of Mexican couples affected by infidelity seek counseling as compared to American couples. I simply don't know.
The only comforting factor in all this is that, since we are here asking these questions, we can likely consider ourselves part of the fortunate group who have the 85% chance of success. On the other hand, it is like big bang theory. What difference does it make what anybody else did/does? If the chances were 1:1,000,000 instead of 1:8, would that change your plans? I think that 97.36% of statistics are designed with the sole purpose of selling books with another 2% intended to write nice papers so we can get expense paid trips to conferences to present/hear them - but don't quote me on those percentages - I could be off by up to two orders of magnitude.
I was trying to think of a good analogy. I guess it is a bit like doing an extensive study and discovering that 85% of people who attend Mass are Catholic - and then trying to attach significance to the finding.
My favorite statistic of all time:
100% of all car-train accidents involve automobiles.
I think cc46 has those numbers. I don't know that she would want to put them on the forum. I wish she would. I don't think she is cc46 any more either. I think she is ccbis or some such. Even if she won't share the numbers, I really would like to know what "bis" stands for.
I really don't know. She might. I know she has done extensive research. Maybe she is waiting to publish a book. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I think she may not be comfortable with the basis of her research. She is a scientist and quite a perfectionist when it comes to the validity of data.
Unlike the 0.05% of people who just throw statistics around carelessly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Not exactly what I was referring to but that is a very interesting post. Look carefully at what she says. If I understand correctly, she basically says what you do has little affect on whether the M ends in divorce or not. Forget about the quality of the M. I agree with her on that. It's the other part I find provocative.
Well that is your 85%/15% split right there. I guess with or without MB if people want their marriages to survive they will work on them. But you are saying that how you work on them does not matter. I dunno about that.
I'm not advocating anything. I am simply commenting on the post. I find it interesting. I agree with you that I also find it counterintuitive. But I didn't do the research. I simply don't know. But what she appears to say is that it doesn't matter what you do. I'm not saying I agree or disagree. She is a very smart lady so I respect what she says.
I wonder where ccbi is from... Chile, Uruguay, Argentina.
I think there is not a big couple therapy tendency in México yet. There's still a lot of permisibility towards male infidelity.
Believer posted once an article about happiness of divorced people after 5 years of the separation. Opossed to couples that experimented troubles but stayed married. The results were something like the ones remained married were happier than the divorced ones.
Ask her. She likes to keep it a poorly guarded secret. I am pretty sure she has posted it a time or two. I guessed it (correctly) by time zone. I was really proud of myself.
Ok, my guees is Uruguay because she has said she's from a small country. Then Chile and at last Argentina, although she doesn't come across as arrogant.
DS1 just called. I am late getting my monthly MRI. I scheduled a scan for tomorrow and DS3 will take me. DS1 is still flat on his back. It's in the AM again so I should hear something before TG.
Todd,
[color:"green"] Very good luck with your MRI. I hope it goes smoothly. Don't hide potatos under your medical robe, the microwave won't cook it and later you wonder why the operator gets mad at you. [/color]
Good morning Larousse, Pio, BigK, & anyone else lurking.
Sounds like things are getting back on track around here.
Someone accused me of having a plumber's crack! IGNORE LIST PLEASE!
I think one problem with marriage survival & divorce statistics is the track ability. Some people who may not be properly accounted for are those who have sought counseling but not been successful, those who stay married yet are there for a set time knowing once the kids go they will also, those who stay for economic reason, those who separate yet live as if single.
I know we aren't talking about the quality of marriage after infidelity but any statistics that would mean anything to me would need to include quality of the marriage as both experience it.
Pio, if I'm not on ignore I have a pottery question for you. If the clay I use has manganese & I choose to not glaze it (not food safe I know), can handling the piece cause any manganese leaching? Also, why, when some of these chemicals that are in clay, are fired to such high temps. do they not lose their harmful effects?
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ? My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends. Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends, So Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a color TV ? Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me. I wait for delivery each day until three, So oh Lord, won’t you buy me a color TV ?
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a night on the town ? I’m counting on you, Lord, please don’t let me down. Prove that you love me and buy the next round, Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a night on the town ?
Everybody! Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ? My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends, Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends, So oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
Yes it was, Todd....thanks for asking....lots of CLEAN fun... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
actually....it was more 3-4 days in the Monterey region where conference was held...so...took lot of walks along the Pacific Coast....bicycle riding....beautiful weather....beautiful sunrises....sunsets...
...then...3 days at SF....really really enjoyed it....went to check out Alcatraz...went on the Golden Gate Bridge...walked through North Beach area....uhmmmm... great Italian restaurants....Chinatown....Fisherman's Wharf....drove through the 'crookedest streat' on Lombard Street (Russian Hill, I believe)... unknowningly walked up 'stairs' that never ended... no wonder...I was 'attacking' Telegraph Hill.... took a couple of trips on the Cable car.....hotel was near Union Square...did some 'window' shopping at Macy's...Sak's.... etc etc...
...and just thoroughly enjoyed my trip!
..and to top it off...last night saw the Tony Bennett's 80th birthday special on TV....and now KNEW what he was talking about when he saaaaaannnnnngggggg:......guess what?
...uhmm.....I heard that for some of you down south TG may even be more important than Xmas.....it may partly explain some of the EMOTIONS running high around here!...now for those of us in the rest of the world...sorry..don't have an explanation! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Quote
obviously it was all your fault. As soon as you left chaos started. Todd had a change of sex operation. Nams is a mass produced ceramic vendor. 2Much throws cognac out the window.
Hi Larousse....yeah....2much throwing cognac is hard to believe....I actually BOUGHT some in TKO's honour at the duty free shop.... so when I have a SIP I will think of you all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
He didn't post yesterday at all Todd. I'm on a roll. Who can I piss off next?
BigK...what's up with you?....you're on a 'roll' for what? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...and like many, I do hope that ALL those that have left... come back!
Quote
Okay, these lyrics are dedicated to Luna
..thanks, Todd...it is one of my favourite Carol King songs! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Yes it was, Todd....thanks for asking....lots of CLEAN fun...
Sure Luna sure. Clean, uh huh, yeah, right. You are among friends. We want the DIRT!!!
Quote
..and to top it off...last night saw the Tony Bennett's 80th birthday special on TV....and now KNEW what he was talking about when he saaaaaannnnnngggggg:......guess what?
"You Ain't Nothin' But a Hound Dog"?
Now, do I get a prize for correctly guessing the song?
Quote
...uhmm.....I heard that for some of you down south TG may even be more important than Xmas.....it may partly explain some of the EMOTIONS running high around here!...now for those of us in the rest of the world...sorry..don't have an explanation!
No way is TG more important than Christmas. I don't know anyone who believes that. There's seems to be a trend that folks get stressed out at Christmas. I have no idea why. I love this time of year.
BTW, did you happen to go to the Monterrey Aquarium? Very nice.
Another BTW, the largest aquarium in the world opened in Atlanta several months ago. It was funded by a quarter of a billion dollar gift from Arthur Blank, one of the two co-founders of Home Depot. I have not been yet but hear it is fantastic.
I'm nor sure what form of manganese you are using but manganese as an element can only be changed by nuclear reaction That might take several million degrees. Not sure how hot your kiln gets. Most elements are pretty stable - even the unstable ones. Chemical bonds (between elements) can be broken down by temperature. Depends on the type of bonds. For example, organic molecules can be broken down at relatively low temperatures. Ants, for example, are organic and can be broken down by light from a magnifying glass. Metallic compounds are generally (but not always) higher temperature resistant. You might even melt them before you break them down. If the ceramic is not used for food consumption, the amount of manganese that could be rubbed off would be extremely small. Do you put on gloves when you handle the lid to the metal garbage can? You should.
The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra (ASO) has planned a new symphony hall. The ASO is an excellent orchestra but the current hall has lousy acoustics. The new hall committee hired a hotsy totsy architect from Spain to design the new hall.
Now, to be upfront, I am no fan of modern art, whether on canvas or expressed in building design. Remember: I am just a country boy from the South so keep that in mind when you read this post.
I have linked below the website for the new hall. Please view the images of the proposed design and tell me what you think. Honestly, it looks like one of the aliens in the movie "Independence Day" to me.
I'm nor sure what form of manganese you are using but manganese as an element can only be changed by nuclear reaction
Nams,
Wait until I am sworn in as President and maybe give me a week and you can have all the modified manganese your heart desires. And oh yeah, lots of transformed silica as well. It will likely land in your backyard.
Are you planning on transforming Iranian silica (i.e nuclear reaction on sand)? If so, are you planning on repealing the embargo on Iranian imported goods prior to windborn currents carrying the transformed silica to American soil? Just curious since I am immediately downwind.
Todd, I LOVE the design of your new hall. Here is OUR new hall (3 years old now) and where I proudly work. Walt Disney Concert Hall
Hi FF,
Thanks for your input. You don't think it looks like an alien? I am very familiar with your new hall. Another hotsy totsy architect, Frank Gehry. When the cost estimate for the new ASO hall was developed, the price tag was $300 million. Nashville had just completed their new hall, a very nice and attractive (to me) Neo Classic design for $120 million. When the committee was criticized for the high price tag, the retort was that it was in line with other major symphony halls like the LA Symphony. So, I went to the LASO website and started my research. The problem with the comparison is that commercial construction costs in Los Angeles are 20% higher than Atlanta. Moreover, WD hall is larger. But people will creatively use statistics to support their case. I certainly do.
I was in Dallas on a business trip twenty years ago and had a few hours to kill. I visited their museum and they happened to have a Rauschenberg exibit on display. His work apparently was famous and was traveling the country. It was a modern sculpture which contained everyday life objects which had been covered by newspaper and given a shellac finish. Well, as I said, I did just fall off the cantaloupe truck. To me, it was a joke. Others were simply amazed, in a good way.
So, give me a Neo Classic design anyday. Too bad Philip Johnson died. He has had a very positive architectural impact on Atlanta. His design would have been something to be proud of. I was going to donate to the new hall when I heard the news, but after seeing the design, I decided against it.
Are you planning on transforming Iranian silica (i.e nuclear reaction on sand)? If so, are you planning on repealing the embargo on Iranian imported goods prior to windborn currents carrying the transformed silica to American soil? Just curious since I am immediately downwind.
You got it good buddy. The only reason I am waiting a week is to give you time to move. Well, forgot about the rugs. Guess I will need a few weeks to evacuate all the rugs and the child labor that weaves the rugs. I assume the sand is Syria is similar to that in Iran?
And, oh yeah, before Cuba, will have all the Cigars removed and the 57 Chevy's. They both could be worth a fortune in the US.
Todd, WDCH is hard to compare with because not only is it a rather large concert hall but the amount of steel it required and the engineering it took was phenomenol. I happen to like aliens (my Hubby still impersonates one occassionally) so perhaps that is why I like the design of the one you linked. WDCH ended up costing 365 million I believe.
I also read that they had to sand the exterior steel because the glare created a problem. More money for that too I guess.
And I agree, I don't mind aliens. Just buildings which look like an alien.
BTW, below is a link to an image of the Nashville Hall. This is my cup of tea. Boring, yes I know. And yes, it does look like the US Supreme Court building, but I still like it.
Amid the acrimony, frayed emotions and hurt brought on by my WW's affair, there is good news lurking. It was a year ago this month that I was diagnosed with a brain tumor. The next month, I confronted my WW about her LTA. In January, she confessed. I moved out in March. My marriage is over and my family is shattered to splinters.
The doctor who gave me the diagnosis said there was mixed news. OTOH, my tumor was very large. However, the level of malignancy with such a tumor is usually not extremely aggressive in adults. Children are the typical victims of this tumor and it is uniformly fatal. There was more news. It was inoperable and even a biopsy was too risky. The tumor had other effects, my optic nerves, hormones and had invaded nearby tissue. While my outlook was not severely grim, it also was not rosy. My future hinged on malignant progress or lack thereof. If the tumor ran on a fast clock, well, I wouldn't be here today. The fact that I am here today is great news, at least for me. Thus far, I have survivied my WW's affair and the tumor. The affair was much tougher. Perhaps it was a gift of sorts which caused me to not dwell on the tumor but on treatment and recovery.
So, on this day before Thanksgiving, I have much to be thankful for. This morning, I had my regular monthly followup MRI. I just got off the phone with my doctor. When he calls with the MRI results, I always tense up. I was a little anxious this afternoon, testimony to which can be found in several pointless posts I entered. The tumor is now half the size it was at diagnosis!!! I am on cloud nine. I am so excited, it is incredible. Honestly, tears of joy are streaming down my face as I write this. All on the day before Thanksgiving. The metaphor is not lost on me.
Yes, my friends, the holiday tomorrow will be especially sweet. I have much to give thanks for and will do so. The bad stuff is gone, at least until later in the week. I will celebrate nothing but good news and positive thoughts. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving.
great news Todd! A very sweet Thanksgiving for you this year. Enjoy the moment.
Happy Thanksgiving American TKOers!
Pio, thank you for the manganese info. Some pieces I leave unglazed, others for food, I glaze. The unglazed are generally not being used for food & are decorative. Some plates are glazed where the food will touch it but unglazed where it won't.
Hey Nams, I offered you all the silica you could want and no thanks from you for my offer?
Pio,
Yes, shrinkage. And I haven't even been in the pool.
And yes, Luna, the timing is amazing. It all happened so fast. I rely on DS1 to track when I need to schedule the MRI. He called Tuesday and said he was behind because of his back. I set the appointment for early this morning. I told the MRI tech that if the doc didn't call me on Wednesday, that he could expect to see me at his doorstep on Thanksgiving! lol
We touch things every day that are lethal. I still can't figure out how people can make stainless steel BBQ smokers and avoid calss action lawsuits. Go figure.
I was thinking about construction costs. Does anyone track the price of steel? For the past few years, China has been swallowing up all the steel available with ferocity. Copper, Nickel, Zinc have all skyrocketed. I am made aware of this because we happen to consume a lot of steel and wire ourselves. The Chinese economy is booming and construction cannot keep pace. This is driving up inflation everywhere else in the world. So in comparing construction costs, can you factor in some sort of CPI to compare them on an even basis? Just using a pure dollar value isn't realistic with commodities being as volatile as they are. We are now faced with vendors refusing LT contracts because they are afraid they can't hedge enough on commodity costs. That makes our costs go up which drives up the price of oil even further. Todd - you need to do something about the Chinese. When you are president, will you be outsourcing your cabinet positions to India?
This is driving up inflation everywhere else in the world.
This is not inflation. It is merely a symptom of inflation.
Quote
So in comparing construction costs, can you factor in some sort of CPI to compare them on an even basis?
No. Construction costs have two componesnts: materials and labor. Both are highly dependent on demand/supply curves at any point in time. The CPI does not equate to increases in construction costs.
And BTW, on China's fast growing economy. The US economy's growth last year - just the annual growth - is larger than the Chinese economy.
BTW, as the Father of a son who just bought a house and a stainless steel grill, what is wrong with stainless in that application?
Hi Todd, let's see silica...while we do use it for some glazes it's not at the top of my list for fantasy pottery items, though your offer was a generous one.
The building...If the structure was fabulous on the inside, if it was perfect for it's intended use, unique in the world for its ability to serve the purpose for which it was designed I'd say great, so that's what the ideal symphony hall should look like. However, it it's got parts that are simply decorative, made to look outlandish just for show than I don't like it.
Dubai is an interesting place. It's fast moving economy is driving an incredible construction cycle. Of the two components of construction costs, their case is highly skewed to materials. That's because they hire Indians by the hundreds of thousands, make them live in tiny concrete bunkers and work for about $160 per month (official minimum wage) but in many cases, they don't pay them at all. The advantage of not paying them is that the Indians cannot raise enough money to go home and they cannot buy automatic weapons and go "postal".
So the construction costs are highly influenced by the cost of steel and, oddly enough, the cost of concrete which I would have assumed would have remained fairly flat due to the abundance of rock and sand.
Here in California, we hire Mexicans by the hundreds of thousands, and make them live out in the bushes. Then we go protest them living in the bushes, and get La Migra to roust them.
However, we do pay them around $60.00 a day. We HAVE to pay them, because they can walk back home.
Here in California, we hire Mexicans by the hundreds of thousands, and make them live out in the bushes. Then we go protest them living in the bushes, and get La Migra to roust them.
However, we do pay them around $60.00 a day. We HAVE to pay them, because they can walk back home.
Geez, believer, no wonder so many Mexicans are moving to Atlanta. Many of them start businesses because they have learned that with Atlanta's growth, there are not enough painters, sheetrockers, etc. They are making some good money here and turning out some delicious food in the bargain.
Although there are other trace elements in stainless that make it harmful, what really makes stainless steel stainless is the Chromium content. Stainless looks nicer but low carbon steel is probably much safer.
Poppycock! Holiday travel is like the proverbial mouse traveling thru the snake's body. And peope tend to travel during the holidays regardless of the price of gasoline.
The AP knows this, so what is their motivation to connect lower gasoline prices with increased demand? Very simple. They are trying to demonstrate a price elasticity relationship with gasoline demand. It doesn't exist. The demand for gasoline is relatively inelastic.
So, we have to question: what is the AP's ulterior motive? If we can be convinced that the price of gasoline shapes the demand curve, then we can be led to believe that increased gasoline taxes can stem demand. Then, if the government raises taxes on gasoline, they are doing it for the "common good". It will help the air, the water, caterpillars and muskrats. And your wallet because, of course, you will use less gasoline. Wrong. All the government really wants is more money. It has an insatiable sppetite for spending money. Don't fall for it or for its liberal co-conspirators like the AP.
And BTW, the radical environmentalists and the leftists in government warn us of our "insatiable appetive" for oil and gasoline. Again, nonsense. The consumption of gasoline in the US today is lower than it was twenty years ago, primarily because of CAFE standards.
I came home today and found such wonderful news here on my favorite thread. Todd, I am so happy for you. Pio - you are a pal. I so hope that all of you may get a wonderful surprise today!
I thank God for my many blessings and for the friendship I have found on this site.
It knocked me out Beth I can tell you. I was upset for you. I'm very well. I hope Stef is back today as well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Good grief people, get ahold of yourselves! Was it really necessary to have 15 pages devoted to me??? Well of course it was, you missed me!
But at least that was better than talk about metals! LOL.
I don't want anybody else going anywhere, so, yes, I'm back. Just for you Todd...blackmail works like a charm.
BTW Todd, WONDERFUL news you shared...I am so, so, so, so happy for you.
I have missed you all so much and it's very nice to be back.
I want to send a sincere thank you to those in my TKO family that stuck up for me and stuck behind me. You have no idea how much it meant to me. I didn't realize the kind of friends I had here and I'm so thankful for that today.
Happy Thanksgiving to all. Count your blessings today.
Ray's is an excellent restaurant Todd...One of my bridal showers was held there...Have you ever eaten at Hal's in Buckhead? It is NOT to be missed if you enjoy steak cooked to perfection!
Steph, glad to see that you are back!
Happy Thanksgiving to all!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Tough test for the Dawgs this week. You probably cannot even get the game up there in little league football land, can you? Ohio State vs. Michigan: game of the century? I don't think so. Vanderbilt could built either one of them. Vandy beat the dawgs this year. Amazing. May have to reschedule Homecoming to an Auburn game, lol. Now, that was the game fo the century.
I have never heard of Hal's. Will definitely check it out. Better than Bones, Chops and McKendricks?
Ray's is great. Today is buffet style which is not my favorite but DS1 and I will do everything in our power to punish them!
Grrrhhh...just lost one of my 'long' posts to cyberspace!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
All I know is that I finished it off with: ...glad I am not a turkey today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hi stph20....glad to 'see' yea! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
..with all the celebrating 'down south', and it's about lunch time here, I think I will use it as an excuse to 'celebrate' myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />......in your honour, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />......and go have a 'terrific' lunch of sorts!
....because I do have soooo much to be thankful for! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
...it's been awhile since my last monologue....so...won't complain... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...doesn't look like Todd is around for some lyrics... probably celebrating, as he SHOULD, with DS1..at the fancy restaurant... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
...so...guess it's time for reminiscing (sp?) again... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
One of my favourite songs is CARUSO by Lucio Dalla...believe that Pavorotti, and others, did a version of it too at some point...
Larousse...I know you asked that one provide how to 'download' the song...I wish I knew how....maybe you could give me a 'layman' version of how to do it...I don't have the song...and my singing it in the shower really does not do it justice..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Found this written under the lyrics:
"MP3 - Scarica tutte le tue canzoni preferite! Accesso ad un vastissimo archivio di canzoni in formato mp3 di ogni genere e periodo tra cui potrai scaricare le tue preferite. Dialer.o http://netvision.hostance.net "
...figured if I only knew what to do...is this like a 'pay as you download' thing, or what?
I would really like to 'hear' this one....it's so beautiful.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Lyrics: Qui dove il mare luccica e tira forte il vento su una vecchia terrazza davanti al golfo di Surriento un uomo abbraccia una ragazza dopo che aveva pianto poi si schiarisce la voce e ricomincia il canto. Te voglio bene assaie ma tanto tanto bene sai è una catena ormai che scioglie il sangue dint'e vene sai. Vide le luci in mezzo al mare pensò alle notti là in America ma erano solo le lampare e la bianca scia di un' elica sentì il dolore nella musica si alzò dal pianoforte ma quando vide la luna uscire da una nuvola gli sembrò dolce anche la morte guardò negli occhi la ragazza quegli occhi verdi come il mare poi all'improvviso uscì una lacrima e lui credette di affogare. Te voglio bene assaie ma tanto tanto bene sai è una catena ormai che scioglie il sangue dint'e vene sai. Potenza della lirica dove ogni dramma è un falso che con un po' di trucco e con la mimica puoi diventare un altro ma due occhi che ti guardano così vicini e veri ti fan scordare le parole confondono i pensieri così diventa tutto piccolo anche le notti là in America ti volti e vedi la tua vita come la scia di un'elica ma sì è la vita che finisce ma lui non ci pensò poi tanto anzi si sentiva già felice e ricominciò il suo canto. Te voglio bene assaie ma tanto tanto bene sai è una catena ormai che scioglie il sangue dint'e vene sai
DS2 just called and told the funniest story. True story. He has a friend who stood in line in the rain last year to buy an Xbox 360. He was miserable. He was able to buy a game unit and sold it on eBay for a nice profit. This year, he had a better idea. He rented a large van and drove to a Home Depot where “day workers” wait to be hired by contractors for jobs by the day or week. He hired 15 such workers and told them he would pay $10.00 per hour and all they had to do was stand in line at a store and buy a Playstation 3. He furnished them with a credit/debit card and a cell phone. They would call when they had the game in hand and he would pick them up. The workers logged an average of 14 hours each, so his expense amounted to $2,100 for labor. He had bought prepaid phones, whatever they cost. Each PS 3 game unit was $600. His investment in the games totaled $9,000.
He put the 15 games on eBay and sold them for $2,800 each, or a total of $42,000. Subtract the cost of the games, labor, cell phones, van rental and gasoline, and his profit was approximately $30,000. You have to admire his creativity. Apparently, when the next generation games hit next year, he is going to really leverage his efforts.
Tough test for the Dawgs this week. You probably cannot even get the game up there in little league football land, can you? Ohio State vs. Michigan: game of the century? I don't think so. Vanderbilt could built either one of them. Vandy beat the dawgs this year. Amazing. May have to reschedule Homecoming to an Auburn game, lol. Now, that was the game fo the century.
I have never heard of Hal's. Will definitely check it out. Better than Bones, Chops and McKendricks?
Ray's is great. Today is buffet style which is not my favorite but DS1 and I will do everything in our power to punish them!
Happy Thanksgiving!
In the words of the late Lewis Grizzard regarding the Ohio State vs. Michigan game..."Reminds me of two mules fightin' over a turnip!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mr. W is a Hoosier himself...Which is better than Michigan, but is still NOT the SEC...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Ah...The University of Georgia..."Because it's Everything Auburn isn't, Better than Tech, a Southerner's Dream and a Northerner's wish; the Pride of Georgia; The Ultimate College Experience; Downtown Shopping; Florida's Worst Nightmare, And A Place That Can Get in Your blood and Stay Forever..." UGA Athens, Georgia...GO DAWGS...SIC 'EM!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Oh and Yes...HAL's makes Bones and Chops ashamed of themselves IMO...McKendricks I haven't been to...Hal's is smaller, a neat atmosphere...consistently fabulous...I provided the link in my above post...just click on the name "Hal's"...
Sorry, but there have been no James Bond movies since Sean Connery. He ruined it for every Bond would be who followed.
And no, unfortunately, DS1 was not able to make it to dinner. He is in mortal pain. Fortunately, he has a neighbor who looks in on him. I will soon celebrate dinner out with my boys although it will not be a traditional TG dinner. Their choice. If I know them, we will end up at a steakhouse.
I'm sorry to hear DS1 wasn't able to make Thanksgiving dinner. However, I'll bet this Thanksgiving was still better than last year's for you.
Something that made my day was my boys unanimously saying this was the best Thanksgiving ever. To me this meant ex was not missed & they are adjusting quite well.
This James Bond does quite well for my purposes. There are some spectacular chase scenes that take place on foot, plus he manages to look convincing with the ladies. I don't require much more than that from a Bond movie.
For the first time ever I went out early the day after Thanksgiving to shop. Just one store for a couple of things but people were in a frenzy. By 8:00 the shelves had been pretty well picked over. I'll just fit gift buying in when I can, I don't like to compete or have the gift buying turn into a dreaded chore.
I'm sorry to hear DS1 wasn't able to make Thanksgiving dinner. However, I'll bet this Thanksgiving was still better than last year's for you.
Hi Nams, you know, once I had accepted that a family dinner was not in the cards, it was okay that I didn't have a traditional TG dinner. I was and am much more concerned about DS1's back. Last year was a dousy. WW drunk, parading around pool while she talked to OM on her cell phone.
Quote
Something that made my day was my boys unanimously saying this was the best Thanksgiving ever. To me this meant ex was not missed & they are adjusting quite well.
That is just fantastic Nams. I know that has to make you feel good that your boys are happy and so well adjusted.
Quote
This James Bond does quite well for my purposes. There are some spectacular chase scenes that take place on foot, plus he manages to look convincing with the ladies. I don't require much more than that from a Bond movie.
Hmm.... chase scenes and ladies, that seems to nail down what any Bond movie is all about, now that I think about it...lol.
Quote
For the first time ever I went out early the day after Thanksgiving to shop.
I heard on the news that some stores in Boston opened last night to get an early jump on the shopping season. The store owners ignored the "Blue Laws" on the books. And you wondered why I call it the People's Republic of Massachusetts?
Then there were malls that opened the doors at 3:00 am. They had footage from the opening and there were people in the stores fighting each other for merchandise! No thank you. Once again, I will do all my shopping via the internet. Probably at 3:00 AM.
And no, unfortunately, DS1 was not able to make it to dinner. He is in mortal pain.
Geesh...Todd..sorry to hear this...what are the doctors saying about it?
Hi Luna,
DS1's best friend since childhood is a chiropractor. He has been adjusted a million times but still has a recurring problem. He hurt it a few years ago. He had been on a photo shoot on a deep sea fishing trip and when he stepped from the boat onto the dock, he had equipment in both hands and hanging all over him and his foot slipped as he stepped and his legs came out from under him. I saw the xray. His lower spine literally had a "C" curve in it.
He refuses to see an orthopedic surgeon because he will not have surgery. Maybe he will one day, but his friend has convinced him that he can fix his back.
DS1's best friend since childhood is a chiropractor. He has been adjusted a million times but still has a recurring problem. He hurt it a few years ago. ...I saw the xray. His lower spine literally had a "C" curve in it.
He refuses to see an orthopedic surgeon because he will not have surgery. Maybe he will one day, but his friend has convinced him that he can fix his back.
Todd...How long is your DS1 willing to wait for his 'friend' to fix him, before getting a 'second opinion'?
....you know how 'timelines' are important around here...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd...How long is your DS1 willing to wait for his 'friend' to fix him, before getting a 'second opinion'?
....you know how 'timelines' are important around here...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Luna,
I really don't know. He hurt his back approximately 18 months ago and it gets better then bad again. I think it will take a lot of pain for him to finally agree to see an orthopedic. I work on him at least once a week.
Todd....why do you think he doesn't want a 'second' opinion? ...or he has had one...involving surgery....and it's just not an option for him... I can see why it would be 'scary'...I am also one for trying 'everything' before going under the knife!
I can see how this could be worrisome for you as a parent <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...but like we do here, the best we can do is offer suggestions... and as adults ...leave it up to them to choose and decide!
I don't think he has any fear of going under the knife at all. Chiropractors are into natural, holistic healing and they believe that any problem can be cured with proper manipulation of the spine. In fact, his friend wanted to adjust me to help with the tumor. I said, err, no thanks. So, until my sons's back gets so painful and does not get better, I don't see him changing course.
Chiropractors are into natural, holistic healing and they believe that any problem can be cured with proper manipulation of the spine. In fact, his friend wanted to adjust me to help with the tumor.I said, err, no thanks.
LOL....don't blame you, Todd...for not taking up his offer! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hey All, kinda slow here. I guess people are resting after yesterday's food glut. I just had what is about the last of the "good" leftovers. They can't be gone soon enough. Too much!
Just thought I'd pop in & say hi. I think I'll watch a little t.v. then go to bed & read.
Could we divert the discussion a little to talk about what's the safest metal for jewllery? It's best to wear gold, silver, steel, titanium?
Since you live in Mexico, in your case, the safest metal to wear would be something like tin. The others you mentioned are likely to get you murdered - very bad for the health. Steel might be okay - as long as it doesn't "appear" to be silver. Thieves don't usually do an assay before killing you. They test it later.
Thanksgiving went very well. We had a Colombian family and a Venezuelan family over. Just not quite the same. Dinner turned out very well. Being an international family, I had to allow for frijoles to be party of traditional TG fare. I had everything worked out and planned well. After dinner we sat down to watch the Dallas Cowboys. Unfortunately I forgot to factor in time zone difference because I always thought the games were "live" and they have always been on right after TG dinner. Still scratching my head on where my calculations went wrong.
Speaking of chiropractors, one day I was walking around Raffle's mall in Singapore on a weekend with too much free time. I walked by am store (Osram?) that sells Japanese health things like massagers, etc. Osram isn't exactly right but it is something like that. Anyway this girl is out front and askes me if I want to try an electronic massager. I say okay. She places the electrodes on my back and neck, turns it on and it is simply wonderful. I hadn't been that relaxed in years. Naturally I buy it. I take it back to my room and try it. The bad news is that the thing didn't come with the girl operator because no matter how hard I tried, I could never get the electrodes placed the way she had. It wasn't relaxing at all. So I decided to up the voltage thinking maybe that was the problem. I had it so high, my arm would jerk up and bang me in the nose. While that hurt, it took my mind off the pain in my shoulder. My shoulder/neck just kept getting worse and worse so I just kept zapping myself with more voltage. After a few weeks, I was in such pain that I couldn't even turn my head. It was unsafe even to drive because I couldn't look in the side mirrors.
Finally I went to a chiropractor for the first time in my life. He took an X-ray and asked me if I had been in an accident. He showed me a "normal" X-ray for comparison. I had a double bend in my neck! He worked on my twice a day for two weeks and then I had to go twice a weeks for months. I now no longer need a chiropractor because there has been so much connective tissue destroyed in my neck that all I have to do is sneeze and it all pops back into place.
It was the most expensive massager I have ever bought. It ended up costing me several thousand dollars. Now if I had asked for the version with the girl operator,I might have saved a lot of money.
I was surfing the BBC news. Do you own a gun? If so, it might be wise not to shoot at the Atlanta police if they knock on your door. They apparently don't show much mercy - gunning down 92 year old ladies. Those guys are tough!
I was never that interested in jewellery until I visited Prague. There is a jewlery tradition of almost 1000 years, even jewlery museum. There is another side to jewlery, the physical expoliation of the miners. Have any of you seen Sebastiao Salgado pics? I think he was a metalurgic engineer before going into photography.
What a wonderful day Thanksgiving was. We had such a great day. Our tradition has always been to go surfing as a family early in the morning and this year I was once again healthy enough to surf too. It is so glorious out there on the water when the sun is rising with dolphins catching the waves alongside of you. It is a feeling I wish everyone could experience. We then go home and cook up monsterous amounts of food for breakfast.
The smell of the turkey etc.cooking fills the house and friends and family start arriving each of them bringing their own good cheer. It was a very long day and went on way into the early hours of the morning. The boys friends all come over, more surfing if anyone has the energy, games of volleyball on the beach etc. and the weather was perfect.
So, we had a wonderful Thanksgiving and my H and I acted as adults and carried the day off happily.
Today, my stores are open till midnight. It is one of our biggest days of the year. We started a new tradition when I was diagnosed and our profit from today goes to our favorite charities. It has become a well known event in the area. Local merchants donate wine, cheese etc. and it is given out to the customers while they shop. Some customers didn't leave! We had another highly successful day and I'm so happy to be able to once again help local charities. Other than Christmas day these two days are my favorite days of the year.
I hope everyone else had a good couple of days too. I am thrilled to see Steph back with us. Todd, I would have roped you in to serve the wine and chat to the ladies if I had of known you were available.
Heading to bed exhausted but happy. Tomorrow it is back to reality. Beth.
I'm a little disappointed and undecided as to what to do. I have said here on many occasions how much I like Twix. I was at the commisary over the weekend and, while standing in the checkout line, I saw the Twix. It made me a little hungry. When I looked at the Twix, I noticed that they weren't just any old Twix - they were Limited Edition Twix - with extra chocolate! I got really excited. First I considered myself very fortunate to have even found them. I was very surprised that they hadn't already sold out being a Limited Edition and all. There were several boxes so I bought them all. I was convinced that my LE Twix are going to be worth some serious money in the very near future - especially since I think I have cornered the local market. I was getting all prepared to sell these on Ebay when I tried one. To be honest, they aren't nearly as good as a standard edition Twix. So now I am afraid I have spent money on 3 boxes of LE Twix that I will never be able to recover. It also proved to me that it is possible that a Twix can actually have too much chocolate. Anyway, If I can find some way to sell mt Twix on Ebay and I just happen to make a profit, is that taxable under IRS guidelines and what happens if I don't declare it?
If you sell on eBay and it is considered to be a hobby, and you don't derive substantial income from it, it is not taxable. If you turn this into a Ponzi scheme, then you will owe taxes. What will they do? They will hunt you do, peel your skin off with needle nose pliers and bake you for twelve days. Then they will get very mean. In the final act of humiliating and punishing you, they will throw your Snap-on tools in the trash. Now, that is low.
Do not despair my friend. What you need to do is to corner the market on the Ltd. Edition Twix before anyone has a chance to learn how lousy it is. Rent a 15 passenger van, hire 15 locals to go to stores and buy all the Twix they can find. Give them a prepaid cell phone and instruct them to call you when they have the Twix in hand. Then start listing the Twix on eBay. With any luck, you can sell every last case before 2055.
Does anyone ever wonder why I am running for President? Here is a sample.
The US Tax Code is 16,845 pages. Every time the Congress "simplifies" the code, it grows by 2,000 pages. Can you fathom that? 16,845 pages. We regard "War and Peace" as being a very very long book. The hardback version is a mere 1,408 pages. Hence, the tax code spans the equivalent of nearly 12 "War and Peace"s. Does that blow anyone's mind besides mine?
Is anyone aware that the US Government pays people to be poor? It is called the Earned Income Tax Credit. It was a creation of the radical sixties when it was dubbed "a negative income tax". It is means tested and qualified "taxpayers" must meet other qualifications. I have a niece who collects this check every year. She has two kids, never been married but has shacked up with various guys since before the birth of her first child. One day, I was telling her my plan to fundamentally do away with income taxes. Her response: no you don't, you are not taking away my income tax! So, you see, the federal governemnt has convinced a subset of our population that their annual check in reward of being poor is income tax. I could never get her to understand. I asked her if she voted. She said yes. Regardless of what the government and my niece call it, it is income redistribution. Marxism. Socialism. And for those of us who regard the income tax and somethng we pay, we have to slog through almost 17,000 pages of legalese.
If I am elected, the tax code will easily fit on one page, with 18 pt font, doulble spaced. Meanwhile, I am on page 843 of War and Peace. As complicated as the Russian masters can get, Tolstoy pales by comparison.
Regarding the tax code, do you think that is grounds for an automatic filing extension - needing more time to read it?
I tend to look at it this way. I started reading War and Peace in 1985 and am a little over half-way through. I am scheduled to finish in 2026. If we simply extrapolate, it would take me almost 500 years to read the tax code. Of course, by then it could be 154,676 pages long, unless you good people have the good sense to elect me President. Now, let's say you read twice as fast as I, you could easily finish the code in 250 years or so. Not too bad.
So yes, file for an extension. Do not expect the IRS to wait 250 years however. Trust me on this one.
Here is a small sample of the tax code. This is part of the code that deals with Alernative Minimum Tax.
TITLE 26, Subtitle A, CHAPTER 1, Subchapter A, PART VI, Sec. 59. STATUTE (a) Alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit For purposes of this part - (1) In general The alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit for any taxable year shall be the credit which would be determined under section 27(a) for such taxable year if - (A) the pre-credit tentative minimum tax were the tax against which such credit was taken for purposes of section 904 for the taxable year and all prior taxable years beginning after December 31, 1986, (B) section 904 were applied on the basis of alternative minimum taxable income instead of taxable income, and (C) the determination of whether any income is high-taxed income for purposes of section 904(d)(2) were made on the basis of the applicable rate specified in subparagraph (A)(i) or (B)(i) of section 55(b)(1) (whichever applies) in lieu of the highest rate of tax specified in section 1 or 11 (whichever applies). (2) Limitation to 90 percent of tax (A) In general The alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit for any taxable year shall not exceed the excess (if any) of - (i) the pre-credit tentative minimum tax for the taxable year, over (ii) 10 percent of the amount which would be the pre-credit tentative minimum tax without regard to the alternative tax net operating loss deduction and section 57(a)(2)(E). (B) Carryback and carryforward If the alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit exceeds the amount determined under subparagraph (A), such excess shall, for purposes of this part, be treated as an amount to which section 904(c) applies. (3) Pre-credit tentative minimum tax For purposes of this subsection, the term "pre-credit tentative minimum tax" means - (A) in the case of a taxpayer other than a corporation, the amount determined under the first sentence of section 55(b)(1)(A)(i), or (B) in the case of a corporation, the amount determined under section 55(b)(1)(B)(i). (4) Election to use simplified section 904 limitation (A) In general In determining the alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit for any taxable year to which an election under this paragraph applies - (i) subparagraph (B) of paragraph (1) shall not apply, and (ii) the limitation of section 904 shall be based on the proportion which - (I) the taxpayer's taxable income (as determined for purposes of the regular tax) from sources without the United States (but not in excess of the taxpayer's entire alternative minimum taxable income), bears to (II) the taxpayer's entire alternative minimum taxable income for the taxable year. (B) Election (i) In general An election under this paragraph may be made only for the taxpayer's first taxable year which begins after December 31, 1997, and for which the taxpayer claims an alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit. (ii) Election revocable only with consent An election under this paragraph, once made, shall apply to the taxable year for which made and all subsequent taxable years unless revoked with the consent of the Secretary. (b) Minimum tax not to apply to income eligible for credits under section 30A or 936 In the case of any corporation for which a credit is allowable for the taxable year under section 30A or 936, alternative minimum taxable income shall not include any income with respect to which a credit is determined under section 30A or 936. (c) Treatment of estates and trusts In the case of any estate or trust, the alternative minimum taxable income of such estate or trust and any beneficiary thereof shall be determined by applying part I of subchapter J with the adjustments provided in this part. (d) Apportionment of differently treated items in case of certain entities (1) In general The differently treated items for the taxable year shall be apportioned (in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Secretary) - (A) Regulated investment companies and real estate investment trusts In the case of a regulated investment company to which part I of subchapter M applies or a real estate investment company to which part II of subchapter M applies, between such company or trust and shareholders and holders of beneficial interest in such company or trust. (B) Common trust funds In the case of a common trust fund (as defined in section 584(a)), pro rata among the participants of such fund. (2) Differently treated items For purposes of this section, the term "differently treated item" means any item of tax preference or any other item which is treated differently for purposes of this part than for purposes of computing the regular tax. (e) Optional 10-year writeoff of certain tax preferences (1) In general For purposes of this title, any qualified expenditure to which an election under this paragraph applies shall be allowed as a deduction ratably over the 10-year period (3-year period in the case of circulation expenditures described in section 173) beginning with the taxable year in which such expenditure was made (or, in the case of a qualified expenditure described in paragraph (2)(C), over the 60-month period beginning with the month in which such expenditure was paid or incurred). (2) Qualified expenditure For purposes of this subsection, the term "qualified expenditure" means any amount which, but for an election under this subsection, would have been allowable as a deduction (determined without regard to section 291) for the taxable year in which paid or incurred under - (A) section 173 (relating to circulation expenditures), (B) section 174(a) (relating to research and experimental expenditures), (C) section 263(c) (relating to intangible drilling and development expenditures), (D) section 616(a) (relating to development expenditures), or (E) section 617(a) (relating to mining exploration expenditures). (3) Other sections not applicable Except as provided in this subsection, no deduction shall be allowed under any other section for any qualified expenditure to which an election under this subsection applies. (4) Election (A) In general An election may be made under paragraph (1) with respect to any portion of any qualified expenditure. (B) Revocable only with consent Any election under this subsection may be revoked only with the consent of the Secretary. (C) Partners and shareholders of S corporations In the case of a partnership, any election under paragraph (1) shall be made separately by each partner with respect to the partner's allocable share of any qualified expenditure. A similar rule shall apply in the case of an S corporation and its shareholders. (5) Dispositions (A) Application of section 1254 In the case of any disposition of property to which section 1254 applies (determined without regard to this section), any deduction under paragraph (1) with respect to amounts which are allocable to such property shall, for purposes of section 1254, be treated as a deduction allowable under section 263(c), 616(a), or 617(a), whichever is appropriate. (B) Application of section 617(d) In the case of any disposition of mining property to which section 617(d) applies (determined without regard to this subsection), any deduction under paragraph (1) with respect to amounts which are allocable to such property shall, for purposes of section 617(d), be treated as a deduction allowable under section 617(a). (6) Amounts to which election apply not treated as tax preference Any portion of any qualified expenditure to which an election under paragraph (1) applies shall not be treated as an item of tax preference under section 57(a) and section 56 shall not apply to such expenditure. (f) Coordination with section 291 Except as otherwise provided in this part, section 291 (relating to cutback of corporate preferences) shall apply before the application of this part. (g) Tax benefit rule The Secretary may prescribe regulations under which differently treated items shall be properly adjusted where the tax treatment giving rise to such items will not result in the reduction of the taxpayer's regular tax for the taxable year for which the item is taken into account or for any other taxable year. (h) Coordination with certain limitations The limitations of sections 704(d), 465, and 1366(d) (and such other provisions as may be specified in regulations) shall be applied for purposes of computing the alternative minimum taxable income of the taxpayer for the taxable year with the adjustments of sections 56, 57, and 58. (i) Special rule for amounts treated as tax preference For purposes of this subtitle (other than this part), any amount shall not fail to be treated as wholly exempt from tax imposed by this subtitle solely by reason of being included in alternative minimum taxable income. (j) Treatment of unearned income of minor children (1) In general In the case of a child to whom section 1(g) applies, the exemption amount for purposes of section 55 shall not exceed the sum of - (A) such child's earned income (as defined in section 911(d)(2)) for the taxable year, plus (B) $5,000. (2) Inflation adjustment In the case of any taxable year beginning in a calendar year after 1998, the dollar amount in paragraph (1)(B) shall be increased by an amount equal to the product of - (A) such dollar amount, and (B) the cost-of-living adjustment determined under section 1(f)(3) for the calendar year in which the taxable year begins, determined by substituting "1997" for "1992" in subparagraph (B) thereof. If any increase determined under the preceding sentence is not a multiple of $50, such increase shall be rounded to the nearest multiple of $50.
It seems to me that the IRS is leaving itself open for a class action lawsuit. It is a bit like saying "sing this contract but you don't really need to see all the terms and conditions first". Isn't that coercion?
This is one of the reasons I hate to install software on my computer. I don't read that fast and it takes me forever to read all those terms and conditions before I press the "accept" button. It can take me a week just to install Internet Explorer updates.
Of course the other reason I hate to install more software is the mass of the "1's" which make my computer weigh so much more. I'm still counting so I haven't quite worked out the mass of a 1 just yet. I understimated. There are way more than a few thousand on the HD. This could take some time. Maybe I could find a program to actually count the 1's for me. Of course, then I would have to read the T's and C's during installation. Six of one - half dozen of the other...
Hi Pio...I may regret asking...but since I do wear jewelry...better know what I am in for! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I wear, supposedly, gold and silver and....other metals which I just buy because I like....
Now...I know that short-term it can't be fatal....since I am still alive...I would guess the problem must be long-term...
soooo....shoot, Pio, what am I in for? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Quote
nice lyrics but I want the music. Buaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Larousse....wish I could....I am going to have to go to the record store and see if I can buy the record..... you, OTOH, given all the information I provided...can you not figure out how...since you seem to know more about 'computers' than me?....actually....ANYBODY probably knows more about 'computers' than me.... what can I say... my 'beautiful' eyes compensate for the lack of my computer knowledge!?!?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
...and I don't suppose there is any such thing as TG in Mexico? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Hi Beth...nice to hear you had a great TG... I am a little jealous about the surfing part.... up here it's getting very cold....would a 'jump' in the pile of leaves do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd...the tax code seems to be excellent reading for going to....sleep....so...just lost my vote on your one-proposal platform!
It's looking like a decent weather day. I'll be working at an art association for their holiday show & sale. It's been going on for 15 plus years & started out as strictly pottery. It's still mostly pottery with little bits of this a that throw in. People have been coming for years collecting their favorite potters' works.
The best part is when I'm working at the check out area & I sell a friend's work or my own. It's always nice to see people enjoy our work.
You know things are REEEEALLY SLOOOOW when Todd breaks out the tax code.
Beth - you sound in great spirit! Good for you. You are clearly a strong woman.
I remember one Thanksgiving we spent as a family just after telling our boys we were separating but I hadn't told my father yet. We have Thanksgiving at his house. Quite the dog & pony show. On the one hand it felt like it had for the past 20 years. On the other it felt like one huge lie.
My father lives about a 2 hour drive away & the ride home was very emotional for me. I usually drove but I had to sit in the passenger seat so my crying wouldn't interfere with my driving. All done in silence because my boys were sitting right behind me. I remember wondering how ex could so easily walk away from the family.
Just like Todd, this was a much better Thanksgiving than that one.
Here is a small sample of the tax code. This is part of the code that deals with Alernative Minimum Tax.
Seems pretty straightforward. What's your point?
I believe the following sentence from my post makes my point:
"In the case of any disposition of property to which section 1254 applies (determined without regard to this section), any deduction under paragraph (1) with respect to amounts which are allocable to such property shall, for purposes of section 1254, be treated as a deduction allowable under section 263(c), 616(a), or 617(a), whichever is appropriate."
Actually...besides BigK....there are a few people that are 'absent' without permission... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Since we are a 'bunch' of very 'emotionally' enjured people...in order to reduce the anxiety levels of everyone...on a voluntary basis...people are asked to 'excuse' themselves.... and inform us the exact time (year, month, day, hour, second) when we can expect to hear from them....so that if you do NOT report back as scheduled....then we could really go off and WORRY ourselves to death! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I was not able to have TG dinner at Rays after all. DS1 hurt his back and could not sit so dinner was out of the question. I have eaten there many times and it is excellent. And the setting is beautiful. Geez, now I am getting hungry.
I was not able to have TG dinner at Rays after all
Too bad, Todd...but it does beg the question: with WHAT are you cooking these days? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Since we are a 'bunch' of very 'emotionally' enjured people...in order to reduce the anxiety levels of everyone...on a voluntary basis...people are asked to 'excuse' themselves.... and inform us the exact time (year, month, day, hour, second) when we can expect to hear from them....so that if you do NOT report back as scheduled....then we could really go off and WORRY ourselves to death! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I was not able to have TG dinner at Rays after all. DS1 hurt his back and could not sit so dinner was out of the question. I have eaten there many times and it is excellent. And the setting is beautiful. Geez, now I am getting hungry.
I'm sorry Todd, I must have misunderstood. I knew DS1 hurt his back and he couldn't go, but I thought you went with another DS. My mistake...oops!
I'll be driving through Atlanta on my way to Florida, maybe I'll stop and try it...you should join me!
I'll be driving through Atlanta on my way to Florida, maybe I'll stop and try it...you should join me!
stph20...there is an 'unwritten' rule at MB....no fraternizing or sisternizing between members of the opposite sex <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ....WITHOUT A CHAPERONE.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
(hope my 'peppering' my posts with the instant graemlins is not getting on anybody's nerves....I know I overuse them....let's just say I am going through a 'phase''...LOL) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I'll be driving through Atlanta on my way to Florida, maybe I'll stop and try it...you should join me!
stph20...there is an 'unwritten' rule at MB....no fraternizing or sisternizing between members of the opposite sex <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ....WITHOUT A CHAPERONE.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yes! Please join us...it will be fun! The more the merrier!! Todd has two "dates"! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> How fun is that!
I don't think there's anything to worry about though...Todd may be a little young for me. And his superhuman Superman powers scare me a little <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />...not sure of his kryptonite! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
....stph20...I have a hard time taking a guy who wears underwears on top... 'seriously' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
....stph20...I have a hard time taking a guy who wears underwears on top... 'seriously' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Good point...what can we do about that? Clark Kent?
I'm sorry Todd, I must have misunderstood. I knew DS1 hurt his back and he couldn't go, but I thought you went with another DS. My mistake...oops!
DS2 and DS3, after they heard that DS1 could not make dinner, said that the three of us would have dinner. But they needed to get back to their GF and DW respectively. So, I waved them off.
Quote
I'll be driving through Atlanta on my way to Florida, maybe I'll stop and try it...you should join me!
Stph, you are driving from Mo. to Florida? Do you not like to fly? When are you coming through Atlanta?
Quote
How have you been feeling, BTW?
I have been okay, just a lingering cough I cannot shake but physically, I am fine.
I just got back from my walk and it is an absolutely gorgeous day today. 65 degrees F on its way to 71. Low humidity and not a cloud in the sky.
And Larousse, as I walked, a rather large white bird high in a tree caught my attention. If I didn't know better, I would swear it is an owl. Never seen a white hawk, falcon or eagle. I looked at him and said, "Who, who". He looked at me like I was crazy. I figured one white owl could "who" with another. Apparently not.
In exactly 6.88732648 seconds, I will disappear for 12.388748 seconds. If I am late, I will update.
Todd....according to my calculations...exactly 19.27607448 seconds after you wrote this...you should have reported back..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
...as you know....this will do nothing to relieve some of our 'trust' issues! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
stph20...there is an 'unwritten' rule at MB....no fraternizing or sisternizing between members of the opposite sex ....WITHOUT A CHAPERONE....
...so...may I join you...LOL!
Hi Luna,
I just checked the bylaws that govern conduct between and among consenting adults within MB, and more specifically without limiting the generality of the foregoing, TKO.
A chaperone is specified however, sorry to inform you that it calls for an adult chaperone. Sorry Luna.
....stph20...I have a hard time taking a guy who wears underwears on top...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Luna,
When I initially read your post, this is what I read. I didn't see the word seriously. And BTW, Superman does not wear underwear. The red "briefs" are actually nothing more than cosmetic adornment.
I'll be driving through Atlanta on my way to Florida, maybe I'll stop and try it...you should join me!
Stph, you are driving from Mo. to Florida? Do you not like to fly? When are you coming through Atlanta?
No, Todd, I'm driving from Illinois (I'm near St. Louis though, so close enough!) to Florida! I have never flown commercially before, so I don't know whether I like it or not. My family travels a lot and we have always driven everywhere so we could see the country on the way to wherever. My WH and mom are trying to convince me to fly to FL though, since I will be travelling by myself. I would like to drive, but we'll see.
I will be coming through Atlanta the 3rd or 4th week of February. I'm not sure of the dates yet.
Checking in briefly before I return to the strategic arms placement negotiations with the Diplomat from the Far Kingdom. He is alright. Dragged me on a cross country hike while walking with me in preparation for my 1/2 marathon in which I will participate in April. I was not amused by the cross country portion. It is ok though; he meant well.
No, not just 'transparency', Todd.....TOTAL transparency...but that should not be a problem with someone with X-ray vision! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Checking in briefly before I return to the strategic arms placement negotiations with the Diplomat from the Far Kingdom. He is alright.
Cin...have you been drinking or what? Can't figure what the heck you are talking about....or is this what happens when one goes 5 yrs without SF? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
errr...stph20...not sure what this means?...have you flown 'privately' on the wings of a bird or something!!!!????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Driving alone, uhmmmmmm......I remember my last long-distance trip......remember when I asked you if you were 'mechanically' inclined?....because if you're not...better take a pair of high-heeled shoes.... to get the attention of those who are <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />... in case of 'car' trouble!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Ding ding ding <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />.....did you say St. Louis...stph20?...I will have to check...but I think I may be coming for a conference IN St. Louis in April.... boy...it sure is a small world, isn't it! ...here I thought I was 'stuck' way up here in NORTH COUNTRY....by my little old self!
I will have get a US map out....sounds to me that's a long drive you are planning....how many driving hours would it take you to get to destination? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...but....whatever....it'll be something to look FORWARD to....
..now...if I am not mistaken....TKO for you is 'diversion'..... were I want to catch up on how 'things' are with you .... I would go to your thread??? did I get that right???
when I hit three consecutive posts by yours truly...it means only one thing.....time to reminisce!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Well...surprise...surprise... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> ...just googled my little home town in Italy...here it is people...this is where Luna was born! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
...there are most likely 10 times more people who have MOVED OUT and spread all over the world....than are living there right now!
....uhmmmm....my favourite little village! A common bond between myself and Asterix and Obelix....and their 'village peuplé d'irréductibles gaulois qui résiste encore et toujours à l'envahisseur (les romains)'
(edited by Luna - just realized it's a little bit too much out of my comfort zone to put it 'out there' - even though I am sure people probably don't even care too much about where I was born!!!! LOL)
I think I will stick to lyrics of songs...sorry Larousse...don't know how to get the music...waiting on you to tell me HOW! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Now this may not go over too well with Todd, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> because Frank Sinatra's MY WAY was originally a FRENCH song....fron which Paul Anka, a Canadian, took the melody and put an English text to it..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
As this note confirms re Frank's recording:
«Editor's note: "My Way" is cut in Hollywood. Based on a French language song called "Comme D'habitude" ("As Usual"), it was given new lyrics by Paul Anka in 1968.»
ENGLISH VERSION: And now, the end is here And so I face the final curtain My friend, I'll say it clear I'll state my case, of which I'm certain I've lived a life that's full I traveled each and ev'ry highway And more, much more than this, I did it my way
Regrets, I've had a few But then again, too few to mention I did what I had to do and saw it through without exemption I planned each charted course, each careful step along the byway And more, much more than this, I did it my way
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew When I bit off more than I could chew But through it all, when there was doubt I ate it up and spit it out I faced it all and I stood tall and did it my way
I've loved, I've laughed and cried I've had my fill, my share of losing And now, as tears subside, I find it all so amusing To think I did all that And may I say, not in a shy way, "Oh, no, oh, no, not me, I did it my way"
For what is a man, what has he got? If not himself, then he has naught To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels The record shows I took the blows and did it my way!
Yes, it was my way
ORIGINAL FRENCH LYRICS:
Je me lève et je te bouscule Tu n'te réveilles pas Comme d'habitude Sur toi je remonte le drap J'ai peur que tu aies froid Comme d'habitude Ma main caresse tes cheveux Presque malgré moi Comme d'habitude Mais toi Tu me tournes le dos Comme d'habitude Alors je m'habille très vite Je sors de la chambre Comme d'habitude Tout seul je bois mon café Je suis en retard Comme d'habitude Sans bruit je quitte la maison Tout est gris dehors Comme d'habitude J'ai froid Je relève mon col Comme d'habitude
Comme d'habitude Toute la journée Je vais jouer A faire semblant Comme d'habitude Je vais sourire Comme d'habitude Je vais mÆme rire Comme d'habitude Enfin je vais vivre Comme d'habitude
Et puis Le jour s'en ira Moi je reviendrai Comme d'habitude Toi Tu seras sortie Et pas encore rentrée Comme d'habitude Tout seul J'irai me coucher Dans ce grand lit froid Comme d'habitude Mes larmes Je les cacherai Comme d'habitude
Comme d'habitude MÆme la nuit Je vais jouer A faire semblant Comme d'habitude Tu rentreras Comme d'habitude Je t'attendrai Comme d'habitude Tu me souriras Comme d'habitude
Comme d'habitude Tu te déshabilleras Comme d'habitude Tu te coucheras Comme d'habitude On s'embrassera Comme d'habitude
I cannot explain it really. Since I posted about the tax code and the comparison to "War and Peace", I have become a speed reader. I am already on page 845. I think I am in the peace section already. The 1812 Overture keeps playing in my head.
Where is everybody? Do I need to stoop to posting lyrics and poems?
You really need someone on your side But you run away and hide Whenever somebody's going to get through You've got this wall in front of you
You put your arm around me and smile But you're thinking all the while Yeah, your friends only go so far However close friends think they are
On the day On the day you fall in love Gonna pray You're gonna pray that your love is enough
You've had the world in the palm of your hand Since you turned from child to man No one can tell you a thing you don't know You see your life as a one man show
But you're not whole There are things you don't control You're going to know what I'm talking about On the day love finds you out
On the day On the day you fall in love Gonna pray You better pray!
It's your life, you try to know Which way the answers lie, which way to go 'Cause you survive, don't mean you grow Open your eyes, look out below Look out!
On the day On the day you fall in love Gonna pray You better pray
On the day On the day you fall in love Gonna pray You better pray
errr...stph20...not sure what this means?...have you flown 'privately' on the wings of a bird or something!!!!????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
My biological father has his pilots license and I've flown with him before in a private plane. Very scary experience given that I don't trust him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Driving alone, uhmmmmmm......I remember my last long-distance trip......remember when I asked you if you were 'mechanically' inclined?....because if you're not...better take a pair of high-heeled shoes.... to get the attention of those who are <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />... in case of 'car' trouble!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
That's right, I'll have to break out the cute shoes! I like to watch stock cars race, but I don't know a whole lot about fixing "real" cars! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Quote
[quote] I'm near St. Louis though
Quote
Ding ding ding <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />.....did you say St. Louis...stph20?...I will have to check...but I think I may be coming for a conference IN St. Louis in April.... boy...it sure is a small world, isn't it! ...here I thought I was 'stuck' way up here in NORTH COUNTRY....by my little old self!
You'll have to look me up! I won't let you be by yourself. How long will you be here? I seriously am about 15 minutes from St. Louis on the Illinois side.
Quote
I will have get a US map out....sounds to me that's a long drive you are planning....how many driving hours would it take you to get to destination? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...but....whatever....it'll be something to look FORWARD to....
It is a long drive...it takes about 16 hours or so. Roughly a day and a half of driving. But I'm soooo excited. I'll be visting my grandparents who go down in the winters. I miss them so much. We're a small close-knit family and my grandparents are still relatively young, so they're fun to hang out with. They're not typical grandparents except for spoiling me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And I'm also going to be meeting BigK!!! I'm very excited about that as well! I can't wait for February! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Quote
..now...if I am not mistaken....TKO for you is 'diversion'..... were I want to catch up on how 'things' are with you .... I would go to your thread??? did I get that right???
Yep, this is my safe place...Pio made it that way for me. We can talk WH and A stuff on my thread. I went back there too.
WHERE the he11 is BigK??? This is day #2 that he hasn't been here. He tells me he wants me to come back, but as soon as I get back, he leaves! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Ding, ding, ding? I don't think there are trolleys any more in St. Louis.
Let's see flying commercially from Illinois to Florida? Getting to the airport three hours in advance, suffering 6 hour weather delay, cancelled flight, rescheduled for next day or two, sleeping on floor in airport, waiting on luggage in Florida, standing in line for immigration (it is a foreign country) and, if you can't speak Spanish, you certainly can't get through the Miami airport. Even the drug sniffing dogs bark in Spanish!
I would drive - of course, I also watched Air Crash Investigation on National Geographic last night so I may have been influenced.
OT: I see on BBC news where NYPD police fired on a car at least 51 times and killed a guy on his wedding day. No weapons in the car. Two passengers were shot and in hospital. Maybe one policeman was hit (obviously by another policeman) and one is in hospital for high blood pressure from the stress of firing his weapon for the first time ever. If the two guys survive, do you think they will be charged with attempted murder for making the cop suffer high blood pressure?
Man the cops must really be on edge in the USA with even 92 year old ladies packing heat!
This will be a full day spent glazing the last bit of holiday stuff. I'll be taking pieces out of the kiln Monday when it's about 300 degrees & running the pieces up to the two places I have my work. Not that it's last minute or anything.
Then I have a couple of months (Jan., Feb., March too, are slow sales months) to work on things I've had in my head or to just experiment.
My boys are with ex. He picked them up Fri. It's the first time I've not had them for the whole of Thanksgiving weekend. I've been busy & not home much so I haven't been here to experience the empty house. ex will have them over Christmas break. I'll need to plan somethings to do.
Last night a friend & I went to a Santa boat parade & tree lighting then we went out for dinner. It's a local tradition I've not done before. Glad I went just to say I've done it. Could take on a whole new level of fun with a partner though.
OT: I see on BBC news where NYPD police fired on a car at least 51 times and killed a guy on his wedding day
Pio,
Sup.
You know better than to get your news from the BBC. They hate America just as much as they hate honest facts. It was only 50 rounds which were fired into the car. And, there were 50, not at least 50. 50 is their quota apparently.
Ding, ding, ding? I don't think there are trolleys any more in St. Louis.
Let's see flying commercially from Illinois to Florida? Getting to the airport three hours in advance, suffering 6 hour weather delay, cancelled flight, rescheduled for next day or two, sleeping on floor in airport, waiting on luggage in Florida, standing in line for immigration (it is a foreign country) and, if you can't speak Spanish, you certainly can't get through the Miami airport. Even the drug sniffing dogs bark in Spanish!
I would drive - of course, I also watched Air Crash Investigation on National Geographic last night so I may have been influenced.
See, this was my thought too. And I carry tweezers and fingernail clippers and a nail file in my purse, and I don't want them taken away from me at the airport.
And I can't speak Spanish. I took Spanish class my freshman year of high school and I did so poorly that my teacher told me NOT to take Spanish II the following year! How's that for support?!?
nams, did I read correctly...XH gets your kids Thanksgiving and Christmas??? That doesn't seem fair. My parents had to switch holidays with me. Unless I misunderstood....which is possible, I seem to do that a lot. OK, I have to go finish decorating my house for Christmas now. Except I lost my Christmas tree! I have no idea what happened to it. I had it last year, but this year, it's MIA. WH is going to have to do some heavy duty searching for it.
How do you lose a Christmas tree???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Ask Charlie Brown. I think he experienced this loss. And btw, when you say you lost your Christmas tree, you are being figurative right? Or is that a metaphor? Simile? Symbolism?
It is so good to see you back. I think your drive would be wonderful. I love it when I can pull into any little town or stop at a view that catches my eye. I always give myself an extra day driving time so I can do exactly that. This is such a beautiful country and half the time we don't even see what is in front of our eyes. We are so busy rushing to get somewhere we don't appreciate where we have been. Hope you find your Christmas tree. I have live trees in pots that I bring in each year until they get too big and then they are planted on our property. I love the Christmas season.
Nams,
I wish I had your creativity. Is Christmas good for you sales wise? You are more than welcome over here for Christmas and that is a sincere invitation. We have a huge gathering and I can guarantee a few single males as guests, no references though! Maybe a change of scenery would be good for you this year?
Pio,
Sandra Bullock hey! Okay, I can handle that, I can handle fighting dirty, but 28 Days? I think the only addiction I have is the beach, have a vague memory of something else but can't quite remember, so guess I am not addicted anymore.
Luna,
Can you tell us the name of your town in Italy? I went to Italy a couple of years ago and never wanted to leave. I was so sorry that you had deleted the link. What age did you leave? Where do you live now? I so badly want to go back there one day.
Todd,
How is your sons back? Any improvement? He must have hated missing lunch. I have been waiting for you to post some poetry, do you need some encouragement?
Need to run as I have a luncheon to get to. Hope you are all enjoying your Sunday. Hi to anyone I didn't mention, sorry I always run out of time, spent way too long in the surf today.
Cin...have you been drinking or what? Can't figure what the heck you are talking about....or is this what happens when one goes 5 yrs without SF? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I am on a diplomatic mission to the Far Kingdom in order to spend Thanksgiving with The Diplomat. That translates as follows:
I have gone to see my boyfriend who lives a long way from me. A long way is the equivalent to a 20 hour or so drive.
You can guess what I mean by strategic arms placement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I am training to participate in a half marathon in April. I will be walking it - not running it. Running isn't kind to my body. Runners don't look like they are having a good time. Walkers look like they enjoy it more. I figure I can walk 13 miles.
I have an uncle who used to live in Rantoul, IL. I have been there - a long time ago when I was between 6 & 8 years old.
I live between St Louis and Atlanta. In fact, if you drive from one to the other, I bet you would drive through my hometown.
And, you better not consider me absent without permission because I told you , in advance, that I would be gone a few days.
At last, someone else that does marathons. I have posted a list of our local half marathons and walks. What sort of training schedule do you have set up for yourself? I had to miss a couple of years due to my health but I am right back into it now. I find the swimming and surfing that I do daily really helps with my stamina and overall fitness. In the past I have always been in the LA marathon too and several others in CA. I don't place but finish and as long as I do that I am happy.
Ask Charlie Brown. I think he experienced this loss. And btw, when you say you lost your Christmas tree, you are being figurative right? Or is that a metaphor? Simile? Symbolism?
No, Charlie Brown's tree was just pathetic in the end. He had it, just the branches though, right?
I lost all of my English meanings, even though it used to be my best subject, so, no, I really lost my Christmas tree. And I'm very sad about it because I want my tree up and decorated and WH won't let buy another one until we're sure it's lost. We have one more place to check and I don't know when he can do that. Everything else is done and I want that done too.
I'm so impatient.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Can you explain this to me? How can someone do that? Does it mean she is signed in as Kiwi? I am baffled. Computers are still fairly new to me and this is the first site I have ever joined.
Thanks for the kind invitation! Without question I would love a vacation. The only place I've been to in CA is L.A.. My oldest son & I went out several years ago to visit a friend.
The single men who will be attending your Christmas event sound intriguing but I'll admit going that distance to meet some un-referred men would seem just a tad desperate. However, I'll keep your generosity in mind Beth.
As for the poster who used Kiwi's words, I don't know anything more. She didn't say which words. I imagine the poster went through Kiwi's posts & picked words from there. If I hear any more I'll fill you in.
I have my final holiday items in the kiln as I write this. I took picture of them before glazing, after glazing & I'll take some after they come out of the kiln. I said I'd post some of my last kiln load but never took any pictures. Maybe when I set them up on Mon. I'll take some pictures.
Thanks for filling me in. I thought she had posted pretending she was Kiwi. What odd people we have in this world. What sad, pathetic lives they must lead to be entertained by doing fake posts. As my boys would say "Get a Life."
Nams, I am very sincere regarding my invitation. The single men were just an added incentive. I promise good food, wine and lots of Holiday cheer. We always have a crowd and the more the merrier.
I had made a promise to myself that these holidays will be the best ever.
I'm confused too. All I know is that Jennifer 2006 has posted using Kiwi's words from a post she'd written a while ago. Kiwi seems to thinks it's some kind of advertisement. Other than that, I know nothing.
Kiwi just wanted me to pass along the info. that Jennifer 2006 is not Kiwi & that Jennifer 2006 had used words from one of Kiwi's posts.
Todd, I don't know more than I've stated above. I think Kiwi was worried someone was trying to stir up some trouble. Wouldn't be the first time.
Beth, if you didn't live so far away I'd take you up on your offer. If you were within driving distance I'd come with bells on. I admire your resolve to have happy holidays.
I won't ask what's up with your situation...I figure you'll share if you want to.
You are always so considerate, thank you. I will post soon. My life is a mess, guess that is part of my desperation to have a very special Christmas with my family. I am aware of the pitfalls of desperation though. I'm going to Church now with the boys. WH is coming too, I told him it's a good thing we aren't Catholic or he would never leave the confessional. lol. Catch you later.
This poster, jennifer 2006, is posting to advertise. At the end of her post she has a link about handbags. Apparently she uses another person's post then tacks on her signature with her link to another site having to do with handbags.
OK Folksies. I was away for a few days. Today (11/27) is my 24th Wedding Anniversary and MrsK and I had a dirty weekend away. Thanks everyone for your concern.
I am really looking forward to meeting Stef in February. Who else is coming?
I went and looked at j2006's thread. It's locked so isn't very long. There are three "new" posters on that thread but could all very well be the same person. It looks like advertising for an investigative service that now possibly may sell handbags on the side. Diversification. The j2006 thread is interesting because "she" says on 4/8/06 that if she ever finds more evidence of an A, her M is over. On 4/9/06, she posts that she was divorced 10 days earlier.
Glad you're back bigK. I thought maybe stph20 had run you off...
Yeah, I think it's in a box...I really don't remember. But I know I had it at some point! WH is going to have to hunt it up soon, I'm going crazy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Quote
OK Folksies. I was away for a few days. Today (11/27) is my 24th Wedding Anniversary and MrsK and I had a dirty weekend away. Thanks everyone for your concern.
I am really looking forward to meeting Stef in February. Who else is coming?
Hey naughty! You were missed! You are not allowed to leave without notification to us! It's a new TKO rule. We worry.
It's still 11/26 for me, so happy early anniversary from me, even though it's already you're anniversary to you...that's confusing.
I'm really looking forward to meeting you too, BigK. But...er, can you leave the 2x4's at home when you come?
Todd's taking me and luna out to the fancy restaurant in Atlanta (Todd and I can't go alone) that he was supposed to go to for Thanksgiving when I drive through on my way to Florida to meet you.
nams, you're right, Kiwi posted me the same post jennifer2006 did, although I don't know who jennifer2006 intended it for, me or Pio? I thought it was familiar, but it was a long time ago and I didn't remember. I'm still confused about why she's doing that. Is it just to advertize her whatevers in her sig line? Is she allowed to do this?
STBXW (her new title, richly deserved) called earlier tonight.
Sober.
Yes, sober.
But, still full of denial and venom.
She started by saying she wanted to R. I told her that her lack of honesty is one roadblock to R. She said that she had been honest and that I did not need to know "details". I figure the word "details" came from one of her best friends. For the record, I have never asked for details. I told her that my primary concern is that as long as she remains dishonest, there is nothing to prevent her from having another affair in the future. I asked her how can I feel assured that she will not have another A.
Her answer: the way you prevent me from having another A is to make sure we have a happy marriage. So, dear STBXW, you are saying that if we R and you get unhappy again that you could have another A. Her stunning answer: yes, if the right man was there to give me attention.
Speaking of honesty...
The remainder of the short conversation, she spent telling me how her A was my fault. She also said that her BF, during the time I was ill but undiagnosed, told her I was fine, just needed to get my butt out of bed and face the world. I asked her what her BF thought now. She said that she seems people in ICU every day who are there because of lifestyle choices.
That was it. Short and unsweet. Honestly, I think I prefer her drunk.
According to your timetable Stef, I should not need any 2 X 4's in February should I????
Well, I should hope not, but just in case...I would prefer to go home unbruised and unbeaten. Leave them home, it's too much baggage to travel all that way with. I don't think you could get through airport security with them anyway, so there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sorry but it seems to me that STBXPRW has been calling for weeks with the very same offer. This is odd that she won't budge on her T's & C's. Something is not right about this. I don't really see this kind of behavior in other threads with other sitches. Why do you think that is?
Guessing, I know that she parrots her two BF's quite a bit. They prop her up and she repeats what they have told her. Have I ever mentioned that she is stubborn? Also, we have discussed how Latinas are brought up so conservatively and I think it is impossible for her to accept the fact that she had the A, or at least honestly face the reasons why. That would explain why she blames it on me.
I'm not going to give you the quick answer. But there is more here than meets the eye. I have to be away from a computer all day but I will come back to this because I think it is very much worth discussing. I also need to relate to you a comment that SIL made to me a while back that I always thought was a bit odd. I may have to do that by email. It might be relevant.
is it really that impossible to discuss with your WW?
You really cannot "discuss" anything with my STBXW. She takes after her Dad. Everything is a lecture. When I talk, she interrupts. Today, I blew a gasket and when she kept interruptinhg, I started screaming. Not proud of it, but I am at the end of my rope.
My impression is that Todd's WW wanted to control how and when they would recover. I think by now she got the message that R won't be on her terms and she may get more open to Toddac needs and requirements.
I'm so sorry your WW still cannot admit the truth of the A. Would you try to R if she admitted everything? I am facing a similiar quandry at the moment. Even if my H does "come clean" I think it is too little, too late, now. Yes, they can drive you to the screaming point.
BigK, I hope you had a wonderful "dirty weekend". I presume that means spa and mud baths? It's good to see you back.
Larousse, I guess I had to miss it at the start of this thread but what country do you live in?
Isn't Pittman who says that affair start with lack of respect from one partner?
I think Todd's wifehad lost all respect for him. Now that he's recovering physically and that he doesn't accept her lies, she may put her act together.
I look forward to the day I can have a "dirty weekend".
I also look forward to Pio's take on what Todd's WW may be up to.
Even if ex had to decided to come clean with me (provided he did have an affair) & want to come back, there was a point of no return. There is a point when all the lies, all the selfish behavior, the lack of respect etc. makes the decision to love the WW spouse a final no.
Todd, you are referring to your WW as STBXW. Does this mean you've filed papers for D? If I had to guess Todd, I'd say your WW/STBXW will go for the money in a BIG way. Sorry to be disrespectful. I would hate to see you get your hopes up for a quick D only to find your WW/STBXW dragging things out looking for every penny she can get & being just plain miserable to punish you.
My D took 1 1/2 years & it wasn't very complicated or acrimonious.
I won't be around until later but I most certainly will check back in.
I also look forward to Pio's take on what Todd's WW may be up to.
Me too. I don't have a clue.
Quote
Todd, you are referring to your WW as STBXW. Does this mean you've filed papers for D? If I had to guess Todd, I'd say your WW/STBXW will go for the money in a BIG way. Sorry to be disrespectful. I would hate to see you get your hopes up for a quick D only to find your WW/STBXW dragging things out looking for every penny she can get & being just plain miserable to punish you.
Yes, that would be my expectation as well. When I think of my friends who got D, the two spouses pledged to each other to be fair and civil and split the assets down the middle. Then, after their attorneys, relatives, friends and neighbors get finished with them, it is the war of the roses.
STBXW and I had previously discussed D and we both agreed to use one attorney to simplify things. My guess is that will break down when her two best friends have their way with her. We have been married a long time and state law provides for a 50/50 asset distribution unless other factors are involved, like infidelity. I am willing to split 50/50. Incidentally, I had a friend who approached his wife about a D and said that they would split everything 50/50. She agreed until her sister was finished with her. Then she got a very aggressive attorney and took it to court. He ended up with approximately 80% of the assets. Their testimony established that he had offered 50/50 and she later went against it. The judge wanted to send a message. My friend ended up buying XW a smaller home so she and DD could be comfortable. But, his lesson is not lost on me.
On a related note, I hired an agency to conduct asset searches in four states. Nothing unknown to me in STBXW's or OM's names. If I am correct that there is money missing, it could be offshore. Sickening. OM's has a brother who is a financial advisor so he could have easily enlisted his help. Just don't know at this point.
I don't think I have mentioned this but STBXW is buying a condo. She closes tomorrow. It is a good sign that she is prepared to move on. Now, she and her two best friends will all be condo owners. BTW, they all drive the same make of car as well. Is it just me or is there a pattern here? They are all alcoholics. They all had affairs.
Ding, ding, ding? I don't think there are trolleys any more in St. Louis.
Pio....that was not a trolley 'ding,ding,ding', that was a bell in my...HEAD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...do you celebrate Xmas in your SA 'compound', or not, or how do you?
Quote
Except I lost my Christmas tree!.....How do you lose a Christmas tree????
Geeshh...stph20..and I thought I had problems! The cat ate it, what else? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Luna, Can you tell us the name of your town in Italy? I went to Italy a couple of years ago and never wanted to leave. I was so sorry that you had deleted the link. What age did you leave? Where do you live now? I so badly want to go back there one day.
Hi Beth...well...as you can see...I changed my mind...email me and I will 'personally' give you the link....I was 11...in Quebec...
Quote
spent way too long in the surf today.
...you sure know how to rub it in, Beth! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I find the swimming and surfing that I do daily really helps
...like I said, Beth, you SURE know how to run it in! Next thing you're going to tell me is that you can do it ALL year round!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I will be walking it - not running it. Running isn't kind to my body.
Cind...guess you don't mind looking like a 'duck'....is that how you are doing your 'walk'?
Quote
A long way is the equivalent to a 20 hour or so drive.
How often do you see each other, Cind? Is this a 'serious' R?
Hi Nams,
...can't remember reading a post about your 'decision' to go back to school so you can teach, or not, etc.....have you made one?
Hi BigK...Happy Anniversary....and let's know go into details! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Honestly, I think I prefer her drunk.
It's a new low, isn't Todd?...can't blame it on the alcohol anymore..I am sorry...a WS is very very insensitive...drunk or sober! ...you could always consider NOT speaking to her...and save yourself some pain, Todd.....(I know....broken record...I know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) ...just hate seeing people hurting needlessly!!!
Quote
STBXW and I had previously discussed D and we both agreed to use one attorney to simplify things. My guess is that will break down when her two best friends have their way with her.
Can't blame you for 'putting D off' for a while, Todd.
...next thing you know someone will be telling me to keep my posts 'short'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
You really need someone on your side But you run away and hide Whenever somebody's going to get through You've got this wall in front of you
You put your arm around me and smile But you're thinking all the while Yeah, your friends only go so far However close friends think they are
On the day On the day you fall in love Gonna pray You're gonna pray that your love is enough
You've had the world in the palm of your hand Since you turned from child to man No one can tell you a thing you don't know You see your life as a one man show
But you're not whole There are things you don't control You're going to know what I'm talking about On the day love finds you out
On the day On the day you fall in love Gonna pray You better pray--
It's your life, you try to know Which way the answers lie, which way to go 'Cause you survive, don't mean you grow Open your eyes, look out below Look out--
On the day On the day you fall in love Gonna pray You better pray
Beth, you sound like you are hanging tough as usual...how do you do it?
Welcome back from SF Luna!
Nams, do you have any snaps of the Holiday pieces yet?
Larousse, it sounds like you are giving Todd a run for his money with the lyrics and politics
BK, I envy the "dirty" w/e...I'm sure you have created some interesting memories
Pio, how goes it?
Hello to Cinderella, Believer, FF and the rest of the gang.
Took me hours to catch up but I did it (and the crowd does the wave).
WH wants to come home. Doubt we will get anywhere in negotiations since he is trying to focus on me and what I need to do/be if he comes back and not on his willingness to do things etc. He says he would agree to conditions placed by me a few months ago r/t open, honest etc. He is all set with arrangements to stay gone if I do not decide to work on M with him. He basically feels like I am dictating everything, "as you always do".
My kids are starting to show signs of wear/tear of the separation but I told WH I refuse to put them through this again so unless we are both 100% agreeable to each others terms/conditions we can forget even trying. I hate this. If I could wave a wand and make him disappear life would be so much easier...ok, I know that is all in the fairy tales so I will come back to reality. I still have no idea why he has had so many OWs and how he plans on changing that behavior. Until we get somewhere on that I don't even want to waste time discussing anything else. Am I crazy or does that sound logical?
I can't remember....has your WS at least consented to N/C with OWs, and has he informed them all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (arghh!??) in writing about it, and that his wife and family are going to be his priority in the future?
I don't think he has, has he?...he doesn't want to 'burn bridges' in case it doesn't 'work out' between the two of you....
...well, this is what I call...cake-eating...one foot inside the door and one foot out....and it won't work....
....if so...I would say 'no go' for sure 2much....you would be wasting your time....not to mention having to put you and your kids through a 'rollercoaster' of emotions, again, and the kids without having one WORD to say about it!
Hold on tight, 2much.....so you don't fall off!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
If I could wave a wand and make him disappear life would be so much easier...
Hi 2much,
Do you have another wave of the wand left in you? If so, I'll give you the location coordinates.
Quote
I still have no idea why he has had so many OWs and how he plans on changing that behavior. Until we get somewhere on that I don't even want to waste time discussing anything else. Am I crazy or does that sound logical?
It sounds rational. Dr. Harley makes it clear that you cannot recover a marriage when there are three (or more, in your case) involved in it.
If someone in the west says the word Muslim or Mohammed, 2-3 million people will mass in the streets of all the Muslim counties. What is it that those people do for a living, or don't do, that so many can hit the streets in protest? And what are they chanting?
Do you have another wave of the wand left in you? If so, I'll give you the location coordinates.
.....location coordinates!??.....oh!...here's an idea, Todd...ask SCOTTY to beam her up... and then let the good Dr. McCoy handle things..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Geeshh...BigK....you don't have to 'butter us up'..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...if you need a hug....just say so.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Now...let's see...BigK...how to 'muddle' through this...
Let's just start off with asking 'where' did you spend the weekend?...(as opposed to: what did you do?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
...this refers to a 'general' geographical response...like, in the country (as opposed to being specific, like, in bed!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
....and I may regret having brought up the whole subject! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ....and so, let's forget that I brought up the subject! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I know I am 'tredding' in hot waters... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
BigK?...did you ever actually get to SEE the beach? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What is it that those people do for a living, or don't do, that so many can hit the streets in protest?
Depends on the country but many protests are govt sponsored. If a CNN camera is around, will protestors show up? If bear in the woods...? Why is it all the protest signs are in English? Who wrote them? I can say most protests you see are govt sponsored because, in most countries, civil disobedience is strictly forbidden with very serious penalties.
Quote
And what are they chanting?
My first guess would be "death to America"? or something along those lines.
Don't try to apply the US economic model to other countries - especially 3rd world countries. People aren't thinking "gee the protest starts at two but I can't afford to clock out. I'm sure the boss will ding me - this will be my fourth protest in 10 days. Maybe I can swap shifts with Ahmed. No that won't work. He has to burn a flag today. And who can I get to babysit?...".
OTOH it would do the USA good to see its citizens get passionate about something.
Larousse.... since you have not addressed the subject....even though I brought it up.....(unless you missed my posts).....I suppose it's hopeless for you to tell me how to get the 'music' that goes with the 'lyrics' of my Italian songs? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...remember...I am not a computer-savy...savey...savoir.... uhmmm .... let's put it this way....I still have a file in quarantine with a trojan horse....and...not knowing what to do...we are co-habiting! (...and no...there were no Greek soldiers inside...I checked...LOL...and, no, I haven't had anything to drink, yet...LOL!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
...and...uhmmm.....don't you have any more animal pictures up your sleeve? ....they're all so cute and cuddly! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
...and, has your ex-BF been trying to 'contact' you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
...and, HOW ARE YOU DOING?
...is that enough questions for you?
...do you want me to think of more things to ask?<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Larousse.... since you have not addressed the subject....even though I brought it up.....(unless you missed my posts).....I suppose it's hopeless for you to tell me how to get the 'music' that goes with the 'lyrics' of my Italian songs?
Mea culpa carina. I'll go back and click your link again. You have a great way to transport your 'rythm' and conversation style to the thread, it's very enjoyable.
Quote
we are co-habiting!
OMG ! Are you co-habitating with Greek soldiers ?! Geez, you need inmediat help. I'm on my way Luna, I couldn't let you make such a tremendous effort on your own. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Er, did you find them in SF? Are they truly Helenist? Atire and all?
ex- BF mails were re directed to my sister mail account, she's a lawyer. She agreed to 'manage' him. She thinks it's great she can practice her no-academical English, while dealing with him.
Quote
...do you want me to think of more things to ask?
I'm not being secretive, you may not ask the right questions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
BigK...how long have we been friends now? You know I freak out everytime you tell me to call him. I have to build up to it, it's not something I can just do.
BigK, everything is fine, besides the fact that now I'm pissed off.
WH had left me a message earlier saying that he was going to have to work late, but my phone is acting up, so it never rang and it didn't tell me I had a message until just now, and it took me forever to access it.
I'm mad because he had to stay late, which is fine, but then his brother showed up at his job and he just decided to go out with him, AFTER leaving me a smart-a$$ message about me not believing him about him working late. He said if I didn't believe him, he didn't care, but that's what was going on.
I just called him back and told him not to be such a smart-a$$ the next time he left me a voice mail. He said he was sorry but he didn't think I would believe him. I said you don't care, so what does it matter? He said, what do you mean I don't care? I said, you just told me that you don't care in a voice mail. He said, OK, I'm going. So I hung up on him.
as long as you don't tempt me with Greek soldiers, I think I can remain pretty moral. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Most of the time I feel liberated and almost happy or happy. I have a hard time facing Christmas because of the plans we had together for this season. Sometimes I do wonder if he cared at all. If he has the same kind of trigers than I do.
His infidelity and relapse was unexpected, very sad. It left me with an acute sensation of impotence because of the distance. That same distance is making easier to detach from him.
Thanks for asking and caring Luna. Sometimes I don't comment about it because I feel that my problems pale in comparision to the situation of many people here.
Let's move to your thread Stef. Otherwise Pio will kick our asses.
Yes please do. I can wipe the floor with you and stph20 but Pepperband is one mean mama and I'm afraid of her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Let's move to your thread Stef. Otherwise Pio will kick our asses.
Yes please do. I can wipe the floor with you and stph20 but Pepperband is one mean mama and I'm afraid of her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
We moved Pio.
I think EVERYbody is afraid of Pepperband! LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
You think you can take us? Hmmph! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I will be walking it - not running it. Running isn't kind to my body.
Cind...guess you don't mind looking like a 'duck'....is that how you are doing your 'walk'?
Quote
A long way is the equivalent to a 20 hour or so drive.
How often do you see each other, Cind? Is this a 'serious' R?
I am doing my walk the ordinary way. You know, at a speed where I could talk to another member of the team. Not racewalking yet. I don't think my internal organs, knees, and 'frontal lobes' would like me if I were to run 26 miles.
However, I am taking (hula) hooping lessons......I wonder if I could get some other hoopers to train in the next few years and we could pass a hoop among us? Hey, if people can run this thing dressed as Dolly Parton or Elvis Presley, why couldn't a team of hoopers hoop while walking it.
There are full and half marathon divisions. And there are walking and running divisions. So, there are 4 events in one.
As for the seriousness of the relationship, I suppose I better have a serious relationship with Team in Training as I have committed to the program.
[color:"red"]There is a current crisis in Caerlon, however.[/color] [color:"blue"] Last Wednesday, the chiropractor told me I have two bad discs and some bone spurs developing in my neck.[/color] [color:"green"]Their current goal is to keep me out of surgery as long as possible. [/color] [color:"orange"] My left arm tingles badly sometimes. Like, really often. [/color] [color:"purple"] I am having an MRI a.s.a.p. [/color] [color:"red"] I'll take all the prayers you can offer. [/color]
A long way is the equivalent to a 20 hour or so drive.
How often do you see each other, Cind? Is this a 'serious' R?
[/quote]
Is the relationship with The Diplomat serious? Fairly.
He thinks I am The One.
I think he could be. The major problem is religious. We are strikingly dissimilar. However, you know, that Christian husband didn't display the most Christian behavior.
We have been seeing each other since January 2001. No plans for the future, really.
The understanding is that we are a pretty good team. Quite well matched in many ways. But, we both have children who are teenagers. Between us, we have 4. Mine are 16 and 13. His are 17 and 14. We are committed to both parents being as active as possible in the children's lives. He maintains he wants to relocate after his youngest one goes to college.
We are both willing to let the other person go - if that person finds someone who is as good a fit - especially if they live in the area. In all the years since doofus left, God hasn't sent anyone significant who lived near me. So, until He does, here I am.
I'm not looking for anyone else but no one has appeared.
The thing I find unusual about your WW is that she keeps coming back to the same thing. Even in a single conversation she goes from not having an A, to having an A to should have had many more years earlier and then back to not having the A. Yet she still continues to call. She is the one making the contact. So what is she after?
If you go to buy a used car and the salesman tells you it will cost $500 and you offer $200 and he counters with $450, you don't usually come back with $200. You negotiate to try to come to an agreement.
Your STBXW is window shopping with no intent to buy. Once the salesman realizes that, he loses interest as well and keeps to his original price. Then he goes back to his office, puts his feet up on the desk and reads his newspaper.
I'll go ahead and post this with the caveat that I offer no opinion as to the significance. They are just two comments that SIL made to me when we visited there last that struck me as a bit odd.
One comment she made to me is that I must have now realized that I am not the only man in the world and that gemela has found someone that interests her more and that I needed to change if I was to be considered as a viable option.
The other comment that struck me is when she told me that if her (OM pretend H) became uninteresting to her, she would leave in an instant.
I guess what I found odd was that it implied a rather loose belief in the sanctity of marriage. I don't know if that is SIL's opinion, joint opinion between the two or what. I don't know if that is a woman thing, a Latin woman thing or just a twisted woman thing but it is serious entitlement at work.
I also have to remind myself that she is not actually married to her "husband". Their mother is the opposite. She would (and did) sacrifice anything for her children. So I see a huge disconnect between MIL and her daughters.
I guess my point is that you cannot discount the cultural difference and it may be playing a significant factor in your STBXW's actions.
As I said before, I think she is window shopping. If she can get the used car at the price she wants, she'll take it. She also has several decades of Catholic training working against her. Guilt is a powerful motivator. Unfortunately if she does buy the used car, she won't place much value on it and will mistreat it until it falls apart. She'll never put oil in it, she'll throw her trash in the back seat, etc. She won't appreciate it because it didn't cost her any effort to get it.
But why does she keep asking? That is the puzzle. My first guess is that she goes through waves of extreme guilt. Those could be brought on by the melancholy of alcohol which may be a reason that she is drunk almost every time she calls.
I think WW wants to get you back in the M to help make her feel better about herself. She doesn’t seem to be interested in making you feel better about yourself. She has something broken and she needs you to be the band aid to fix her problem. What drove her to the A remains and will likely remain even if you two decide to live together under the same roof again. Are the BF's empowering WW? Very likely. Left to her own devices, I don't think she could have maintained her attitude this long.
I think what made a huge difference in my case is that gemela went on a mad search for enablers and didn't really find them. All her friends were essentially pro-marriage so, in terms of the A, she just had the "wrong" friends.
I don't think it is a coincidence that your WW and her friends share some characteristics. This goes back to my post a while back about divorce being contagious. Peoples' values are at least partially formed by their environment. Why do kids get involved with drugs? Why do we not want them to hang out with the "wrong crowd"? Because we know that everyone is capable so we try to mitigate the external influences.
very clear post. I agree with your points of view. My impression is that some modern catholics don't have the concept of the sanctity of marriage the way it used to be. Added to that the media reinforces the idea that marriage as an hedonist comodity, a form and not an unbreakable union.
I was thinking... Could it be that Pep and ML play good cop-bad cop ? !!!!
I would keep their autographes either way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I don't think Pep likes heat that much. Some mornings she brags about being in front of the pc nakie .
(Think I'm in trouble now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I have my celebrities signatures book at hand, just in case. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)
Thanks for asking and caring Luna. Sometimes I don't comment about it because I feel that my problems pale in comparision to the situation of many people here.
Thank you for sharing, Larousse... dreams are dreams... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> disappointments are disappointments <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.... all is relative.... here's another rule:
becaaauuussseee we are ALL..... U N I Q U E !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Pio? .... since I was so impressed with your'superduper' charts.... any advice on how to go about keeping track of, or referencing, my 'own' rules around here?<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Cind...sorry to hear the news...please keep us up to date.
(((((((((((((((Cinderella))))))))))))))
Quote
Peoples' values are at least partially formed by their environment.
I agree with you Pio...in my case, WS 'knew' he needed to surround himself with a lot of 'enablers', and did. Also, unfortunately, committment to marriage is not being taken very seriously these days...
Quote
(Me no understand what is 'superduper' charts' Buah.)
Luna,
what's your favorite animal? From the animal species I mean.
...'superduper' charts is just another way of saying 'fancy' charts... (referring to Pio's charts of G's telephone exchanges, etc etc)
A favourite animal?....let's see... seeing that I often visited my grandparents' farm when I was little...I guess 'farm animals' have a special place in my heart....you know...cows, sheep, chickens, dogs...
We have a BIG dog (who is just a really BIG baby!) and a cat....
Now...if I think 'jungle'...let's see.... Tarzan...LOL...
...just recently, in the SF bay...spotted a few sea lions doing some 'serious' sun bathing...that REALLY made me laugh!
...seeing that all have something 'loveable' about them....having a hard time choosing...
...you seem to like animals a lot... do you have a favourite?
...and since you seem to be around, Pio...still waiting to hear from you about what I can EXPECT to happen if I wear jewelry (missed post or intentional?!?)....it's been on ma mind since you mentioned it....WITHOUT any explanation.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
....and...an uninformed 'imagination' can ran wild... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
BTW...are you busy putting up xmas lights on your palm trees? ...don't let the sand get in your eyes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Since larousse originally asked the question, I told her any type of jewelry could get her killed in Mexico City. Thieves steal first and check later. Not many of them are experts so they go for anything that shines.
I have a question that I thought you might have the inside scoop on. Since Quebec is now officially a sovereign nation residing within a united Canada, will you start opening bingo halls?
Todd,
I know you are deep into War and Peace and have been in Peace for at least a week now and, considering that Peace is pretty boring, you must have gotten back to the taxt code. So I have a question. If WW has been providing substantial support for OM for the better part of this year, can you claim OM as a dependent on your 1040?
If WW has been providing substantial support for OM for the better part of this year, can you claim OM as a dependent on your 1040?
Pio-Diddy,
Unfortunately no. The tax code is clear. Title IX, chapter 10,334,832, section 23,7778, subsection 9,248, paragraph 4,855, lines 44,759,279 through 49,992,039, describes persons who can potentially qualify for dependent status. Here is a small portion of the exact code:
Notwithstanding the foregoing and by exclusion with reference to and without any generality of Section, X, title `4858 of the Code, and applicaiton of the word "dependent" as used herein, should not be constued nor interpreted, unless specificaly or generally provided for by express or implied exception as variously provided in Title IV, section 87,399,562 of this Code and together with the interpretation of the seventh district court as to judicial appeals on this matter, a dependent, as used in this section and various throughout the code except as hereinafter provided therefor, and excluding the presence of alernative minimum tax and like kind revenue and expenses, and further stipulating that said depenedents must meet all of the criteria as contianed in said code as amended, if amended and abridged"
That is clear to me but in the event anyone has difficulty speaking "governmentese", the following is a literal translation of the above code recitals.
Only minors under the age of 60 can qualify for dependent status.
Ooops, just got off the phone with my accountant. It seems I misinterpreted Section 34,654 and subsection 87,345. The real reason I cannot claim OM as a dependent is because a dependent must be a human being.
Pio's quote: "I think WW wants to get you back in the M to help make her feel better about herself. She doesn’t seem to be interested in making you feel better about yourself. She has something broken and she needs you to be the band aid to fix her problem. What drove her to the A remains and will likely remain even if you two decide to live together under the same roof again. Are the BF's empowering WW? Very likely. Left to her own devices, I don't think she could have maintained her attitude this long." ------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this statement Pio. Well, except for maybe the part that she couldn't have maintained her entitlement attitude if it weren't for the BFs.
It's too easy to say WW spouses are "different people" & are "under the influence" of...whatever one chooses to say.
We are talking about adults. These people have jobs, have raised or are raising families. They are fully functioning. While I agree their thinking is skewed & they are making extremely poor choices, they are the ones making those choices. It's more about them seeing themselves as entitled.
Life gets difficult, we see we have limited time. We naturally look back & wonder if we've spent out time wisely & what we'd like to do with the rest of our time here. Some people get panicky, others adjust their lives to live more fully while still meeting their obligations.
To use religious background also seems a bit of a cop out. It's all part of an "I'm not really responsible for my actions" mentality. Todd's WW certainly has that attitude.
We've all made poor choices in our lives & some of those choices cause us shame, as they should. No one likes to live with feelings of shame so we try to re-write history to make ourselves feel better about our horrible choices. WW spouses are the best at this & we, as BS, often help. We don't want to think the WWS has simply decided to look elsewhere for excitement, love, a new life, what have you, because the people we married swore to no do that. But, they did make that choice & it's born of entitlement. They want what they want & they get it. Right, wrong, religious, not religious, guilt-ridden, fearful of the future, whatever, they're all ultimately excuses the WW uses to get what they want because they want it & feel entitled.
I have a question that I thought you might have the inside scoop on. Since Quebec is now officially a sovereign nation residing within a united Canada, will you start opening bingo halls?
Sorry, Pio...won't 'touch' the political debate in Quebec <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />... let's just say that it's a very 'emotional' debate above everything else.....like all other 'political' debates around the world...LOL!
Bingo halls?!?!?...wouldn't know about that...not old enough to attend yet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Pio...how come Nams is getting off the hook for not learning how to 'quote'?... Nothing personal, Nams, I just have a 'beef' about this with Pio <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />... gave me heck for not properly 'quoting' way back when!...although I must say.... he let's me get away with my (....).... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Life gets difficult, we see we have limited time. We naturally look back & wonder if we've spent out time wisely & what we'd like to do with the rest of our time here. Some people get panicky, others adjust their lives to live more fully while still meeting their obligations.
...my WS got 'panicky'...actually suffers on occasion of 'panick attacks'..... has not wanted to get 'real' help for it...guess he now figures he's too old and not worth the effort.....HARD WORK vs AFFAIR.....
Quote
But, they did make that choice & it's born of entitlement. They want what they want & they get it. Right, wrong, religious, not religious, guilt-ridden, fearful of the future, whatever, they're all ultimately excuses the WW uses to get what they want because they want it & feel entitled.
I think you hit it on the button, Nams...and so early in the morning, too...WOW...(for me, that is!)....
What 'pearls' will you come up with by tonight!!!
Weren't you supposed get your pottery out of the oven, or something?!?!! ...are you happy with the results!!?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...is the 'waiting' difficult?? anxious??...or more like, che saaaara saraaaa! ...and it's 'out of your hands now' attitude....
I have a few friends...well....actually, think I am going to 'fess up'...and ready to get the 'WELL...NO WONDER!' and the 'rolled eyes' reaction from some, I guess....
...but my WS is an actor....specifically, theatre actor.... and quite a few of my friends are in 'artsy' life endeavours.... actors, costume designers, singers, writers, painters... and I have been around 'creative elements' enough to know... that the 'creative process' can vary QUITE a bit!
...in our circle of friends, WS and I were 'dinosaurs' being married over 20 yrs....and, I guess, like dinosaurs...we have become extinct!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
...but like the PHOENIX/DINOSAUR....Luna rises from the ashes!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
This is unacceptable...I am 'just' bumping it while I contemplate on what song to post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Will you guys stop all this bumping you woke me up!
Luna, thanks for the email and links, your home town is beautiful. Have you been back there?
BigK, are you clean again yet? By the way I have a really good Australian friend coming to stay with me soon. She lives in LA and has been here about 15 years. She has 3 sons too and sadly a very WH. She keeps trying to get me to eat vegemite though. I banned her from bringing any to my house!
Now, I have gotten the hint that the lyrics of my favourite Italian songs are not appreciated too well here (even though I have tried to ignore the obvious) ....so... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...have decided to enfringe upon Todd's territory....and submit to you people WILDFLOWER by Skylark.... I seem to identify with the song...and I tear up often listening to it...and....uhmmmm....singing it at the top of my lungs...when nobody's around...because I would like to keep my friends! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
...and Larousse.... I spotted 'mp3' in the following site, maybe it will get you the musique...but I really don't know... for a not-so-savey computer girl....it's the best I can do!
She's faced the hardest times You could imagine And many times her eyes fought back the tears And when her youthful world was about to fall in Each time her slender shoulders Bore the weight of all her fears And a sorrow no one hears Still rings in midnight silence, in her ears
Let her cry, for she's a lady Let her dream, for she's a child Let the rain fall down upon her She's a free and gentle flower, growing wild
And if by chance I should hold her Let me hold her for a time But if allowed just one possession I would pick her from the garden, to be mine
Be careful how you touch her For she'll awaken And sleep's the only freedom that she knows And when you walk into her eyes you won't believe The way she's always paying For a debt she never owes And a silent wind still blows That only she can hear and so she goes
Let her cry, for she's a lady Let her dream, for she's a child Let the rain fall down upon her She's a free and gentle flower, growing wild
Not too bad thanks BigK. But, I guess you don't mean my health hey!
I guess I have to talk about my M sooner or later but I just so badly want to enjoy this Christmas. Last year I was very ill and spoilt the celebration for everyone. I am determined to make up for it this year if I can.
I don't know how to quote. I'm lucky I can get the words from one place to another.
I think you asked me what I decided to do for school. I've sent in all my application materials for an art education master's program. Now I sit & wait to see if I've been accepted or not.
Yes, I was waiting to empty my kiln (oven, tee hee). I emptied it yesterday late in the afternoon. The pieces won't be set up until tomorrow so I'll take pictures then. It thought you guys might find it interesting to see pieces after the first firing, glazed, then after the final firing. I tried to up load them onto the other site I had for the pictures I've already showed here but I wasn't able to. I may have to find another way to get them on the computer so others can see them.
This is my day off so I am catching up on TKO. I start my computer lessons after Christmas so perhaps it will be easier for me then?
By the way, your post to Todd was incredibly insightful. I hope Todd will forgive me for saying this but it comes from someone that has faced their mortality too. But, I think having a life threatening illness plays into the WS/BS equation too and the R possibility.
Please believe that I have a very good reason for asking you my next question.
When I said my H had fathered a child to another woman you made a comment about how we could love that child and that you had a son that your daughters love. Would you mind explaining?
I am just looking for some answers but don't want to show my hand just yet. Please forgive me, but I will explain later.
Not too bad thanks BigK. But, I guess you don't mean my health hey!
I guess I have to talk about my M sooner or later but I just so badly want to enjoy this Christmas. Last year I was very ill and spoilt the celebration for everyone. I am determined to make up for it this year if I can.
Is everything good with you?
I did mean your health and general wellbeing as it happens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I would not pressure you to talk about your marriage until you are good and ready. I understand you wanting to enjoy Christmas.
Everything is fantastic in the Kahuna household. Thanks for asking.
I have actually been to Mexico City a couple of times. Once for a business deal and once for pleasure when a good friend was married. It is an interesting city. What is Popo up to at the moment ? Were you born there? For some reason I thought you were Fr--ch and thus very brave to be here. ( I promised never to say that word again on here)
I came to this thread very late so please excuse all my questions. I'm a little confused over your status on this site. How long were you married for? Are you a WS or a BS? I guess you are recovered as I see you have been here a couple of years and recently had a BF. Are you divorced? Do you have any children? Sorry about all the questions. Maybe we should have to put all this information under our posting names or something and that would stop all the questions.
I am also so sorry this relationship ended for you. It must be even harder to sustain a relationship long distance. I couldn't manage it living in the same house! A friend of mine is currently madly in love and only communicates by email or phone calls. I feel so sorry for her, it must be so difficult to be far apart.
To everyone!!
Which actually brings me to a question. The friend that I mentioned has never met the love of her life, they met on an internet site. I struggle to understand her relationship. How do you fall in love with someone that could have two heads, or a wife/husband tucked away? Can someone explain to me the allure of having an EA? There are such horror stories about internet predators. Why would you put yourself in that position? I guess when you meet you both wear a yellow carnation in your lapel. It sounds pretty pathetic to me but I want to understand and support her, so any feedback would be welcome. Maybe I am just looking at it the wrong way ???
Cinderalla,
I will also be praying for you and that you have a good result with your MRI.
Nams,
Can't wait to see your next work. Don't forget to post pictures for us.
****Edit: Larousse, Luna just mentioned that I had asked very personal questions. Sorry, I was just trying to get to know you. Feel free to ignore me - I will not be offended.
What I think of it as is an introduction service. I won't email forever, I won't talk on the phone forever before meeting someone, ALWAYS in a public place. You can only learn so much about a person online. You MUST meet in person to know if there's any chemistry.
It's no more scary than meeting someone in real life then going on a date. You learn about someone by spending time with them, getting to know them, their friends, family etc. How you were introduced doesn't matter much IMO.
I don't need to feel instant attraction, but within a few dates I'd like to feel something more than friendship if we're going to go any further.
I think your friend is on very shaky ground. Just the statement "...has never met the love of her life..." is frightening. She has fallen in love with a part of a person who may or may not have represented himself honestly. She needs to meet him & learn about him & his life. All before she refers to him as the love of her life. Just MVHO
I've taken some before shots of my work, not pretty but I thought you'd like to see the steps involved, but I wasn't able to able to upload to where I have the other photos. I'll have to figure that out. I'll take more pictures when the pieces are set up tomorrow. Thanks for the interest.
I so loved Italy and badly want to go back. Is your WH also Italian?
I think you are in plan B - yes? Do you have any contact at all with your WH? How do you manage the children?
Hi Beth,
-No...WS is a francophone from Quebec... -Yes...I am in PLAN B -I send him one email a week...strictly 'functional' re boys -the boys alternate one week each -WS has chosen not to 'live' with OW...but I suspect he spends the week boys are with me at her place -WS would very much like to do 'friendly co-parenting' with me and wants to 'reconnect' with me, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> but I will have nothing to do with him until OW is out of the picture... - besides, I take 'parenting' responsibilities very seriously...I am raising boys...and I want them to SEE that 'cheating' is no way to nurture an intimate relationship...and that in life, there are consequences... which should be evaluated 'beforehand'....and that THEY should not tolerate 'cheating' should they ever be subjected to it...and finally, that THEY (and I) are worth it, regardless of the message that WS is sending us!
Now...your turn...exactly what are your plans? Ignore that you have a WS on your hands and that OW is pregnant until after holidays? Then what....file for D, or are you interested in recovering your M?
Yes...I know...I don't beat around the bush! ...but answers are on a voluntary basis here...and everyone here gets to practice 'patience', feel no pressure to answer....actually, I consider myself a pro at it.... check my signature line....been in PLAN B practically a year and half now...(think cc46 - now ccbis - is the only one beating that record...with almost 2 years in PLAN B this holiday...)
Quote
For some reason I thought you were Fr--ch and thus very brave to be here.
Beth...if I may (hoping Larousse won't mind) while I am here, I will fill you in on Larousse's name...(and please jump in anyone if I am wrong - as if encouragement is needed!) it is a well-known fact around here that Larousse was stuck when it came to finding a poster name...what she had on a shelf very close to her computer was a French dictionary - Larousse - but...Larousse is NOT a dictionary...got it, Beth? Now...I felt I little bit entitled to furnish you with an explanation...because I am as close as you can get to a 'francophone' around here, not counting Todd DS1 FGF (French girlfriend)....and Ahuman....but we have not seen her around lately....she may be a bit busy with her work!
I will let Larousse answer your other very 'personal' questions...
Yeah, Pio...do you have a son? (I also picked that up, Beth, and like you, I am very curious to hear about it...)...
Quote
It thought you guys might find it interesting to see pieces after the first firing, glazed, then after the final firing.
Nams....are your pieces at war? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I do have something that I need some help with. I asked Pio a rather personal question earlier which all ties in with my new dilema. It seemed pretty quiet on here today so I didn't feel like I was taking up all the space. I feel so self centered when I just write about my problems.
Also, I did so badly want to have a wonderful Christmas with my family this year and face everything later, but the world sometimes will not wait.
Okay, here goes!
When I learnt that my H was still involved with the OW I asked him to leave. Ever since he has been trying to R like never before and we have never seen so much of him at home. He makes all the right promises etc. but I don't trust him. Then of course my PI informed me of the OC. I flipped on that one as you know. My H did not deny the OC and was already having a paternity check done and she is his child. He said a child never entered his head! My sons know better!!
NOW, the mother or maybe that should be the person that gave birth to this child wishes to (deleted -sorry) Yes, you read that correctly.
Bigk, I love children, I wanted ten of them but I cannot have any more except through adoption which I would naturally consider. I haven't persued adoption due to my health and the state of my M. I have never stopped loving my H although I hate him at times. I am cancer free at the moment but my Dr. is on the alert for more, so I am not sure of my prognosis. I am fairly religious and I try to follow the scriptures and be a good person.
I'm sorry I can't write anymore now, maybe I shouldn't have started this today. But your input if you can follow what I wrote, would be very welcome, I'll be back.
Hope he hasn't tried to cook supper at his place again... he must be on the firemen's MOST WANTED list...or maybe he finally fell into a deep sleep trying to read the Tax Act...and having nightmares over the Atlanta concert hall...
If you're not ready to go through all this, don't. take whatever time you need to feel comfortable. We may all want to know what's up, but we don't want you to do anything before you're ready.
Luna,
Pottery gets "fired" in a kiln, meaning it is heated to a very high temp., I fire to about 2145 F. Many people fire twice, first to bisque (about 1950 F) the work which makes it hard but still porous. Then you glaze it, then fire it again. Lesson 1.
I guess I have answered a lot of your questions without knowing you were asking.
You have got a lot on your plate...I don't know what BigK will answer....but in case you have not checked it out, there is a section here that discusses OCs....maybe it will be helpful to you to hear what some other BSs dealing with OCs have to say...you know...the reality of it!
There is one poster who drops by here sometimes who has been around awhile and who is in R, and have custody of OC... (Dealen...or something like that...I am sure someone will provide us with the right poster name)...
I totally understand your not believing or trusting WH. Will he commit to recovery and all it entails? Openness Honesty Full disclosure counselling etc
If he will do these things and your marriage is recoverable...
then
OC.
If you can get full custody and NC with OW then I would say it may be the best solution in a menu of bad options.
But probably only if your marriage can recover.
She must give up all rights and have no contact with OC.
For me to take on another child I would want to have a rock solid marriage. Or as close as one can get to that. I would need to have such trust in my H, to know he was as committed as I was, to me & the children.
In light of the fact your H has had several OW I'd also want a binding legal contract for support of the child, BEFORE the fact.
In my heart I'd like to think I could take on another child (especially given the "mother"), but I just don't know that I could under the circumstances you find yourself in.
You say you love you H, why? As BigK pointed out is he willing/capable of doing the work necessary to recover your marriage? How do you know you can trust him given his history of lying?
Another few questions I'd ask myself: If you hadn't found out about the OC what was your H going to do regarding the fact the OW wanted to "sell" him the child? What was he going to do about the child? What was he going to tell you? Would he have? Not what he tells you, what your intuition tells you.
Have you gotten yourself checked for STDs? Considering the OW, you may want to RUN to the Dr. for testing.
Only have a minute as tonight is IC night, but I will come back after that. I am getting the feeling one IC is not enough and I need a team of them!
Thanks everyone, sorry I got emotional. My dad would have said "if you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen."
BigK, I think you should have called yourself BigH. That is how I always think of you. The H stands for heart.
Nams, I have no idea why I still love my H. But I do not confuse love with respect and honor. I collect damaged birds and animals and nurse them back to health and he is so damaged. How do I shrug on here?
I'll check back in later. Sorry I had to eat and run.
I'll be signing off for the night after this Beth but I'm going to ask you a couple of more questions. You don't have to answer publicly but you may want to consider them for yourself.
When I read that you have no idea why you love your H & that you say your H is damaged & you nurse damaged animals back to health, I wondered if you love the idea of rescuing your "damaged" H rather than actually loving him as a person. Please know I mean no disrespect. What immediately came to mind was the "white knight syndrome" in reverse. It's a very powerful feeling to know someone depends on you & you have the power to help them. Not sure I'd call it love if it's for a partner VS a child though.
I'd also ask myself these questions: What do I see in my future with my H? Is that what I want for my future? Is my H worthy/deserving of the love I can give him? Will he love & care for me as I do him? Can I trust him?
What were your H's intentions regarding the child before you knew & now that you do? What are they should you D? This will sound harsh, do you think he may be wanting to reconcile so he will have you to look after his child & he can ease his conscience?
Well, BigK was right. He said "like she won't be back" and here I am.
The time out was good. It made me realise I have nothing to be ashamed of, I have as much right to be here as anyone else and I don't need to let criticism get to me as much as it does.
One more thing. Pio, this is your thread (or you seem to think it is). If I'm unwelcome just let me know and I'll disappear again.
I don't view this as my thread even though I had the first post. It is a public forum. I will only go so far as to say that I am not interested in anything you post and you are now the second person on my "ignore filter" after booka. But I am not the only poster here. I could publicly state the reason I feel this way but that wouldn't benefit anyone. I also have to honor Todd's request. Sorry I can't be more clear. You can read into this what you wish.
A custom made hoop? hmmm.... Is it not ROUND or something? Or is it custom made with composite graphite regular stiffness with a swing weight of...no...wait...that would be a golf club...so is it not round or something?
To be honest, I thought scrapbooking was a scam. Custom made hoops? They must have seen you coming for miles <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yup....made of 3/4" 160 psi irrigation tubing. Covered in blue, green, and yellow electrical tape. 40 1/2" in diameter - proportional to my height. I could never hoop as a child. I am learning to do so now. Not only do I have my very own hoop but I am paying for these lessons. You talk about a workout!
Jen, you are still welcome in I'ville and in the aisle. We still love you.
160 psi is the tensile resistance. When you hoop, you are putting it in compression along with a component of axial strain. I'm not sure what the rating would be for hooping but I'm sure there is a way to calculate it. The problem with polymer compounds is that they can, to some extent, be designed to be stronger in one axis or stronger under one type of load when compared to another. Designer chemicals. The Gucci of irrigation. So now we can guess your height. TMI. Hoop lessons reminds me of WW taking "spinning" lessons. I am paying money so that my WW can learn to ride a stationary bike.
But it's fun sometimes and we matter too Pio!!! WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
P.S. Plus, the game that I gave them is COOL and I hear that it has been known to keep idiots busy for DAYS!!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Cute concept. Being a Flash developer myself, it is a bit crudely coded. But it does give me an idea for a similar application for WS's. I'll have to give it more thought...
I will anxiously await your WS version Pio...I love "funnies" like that...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Hey, but I don't wish to be in the prototype if it has anything to do with a Sasquatch! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Sasquatch....What a metaphor...In an instant I just replayed that entire National Geographic special in my mind. I remember the guy who had dedicated his entire life in search of the sasquatch. To be honest I thought at the time he was a fool. But you in your wisdom have humbled me and I now feel foolish for having had that thought. I guess it was a worthy endeavor after all. And now I am saddened.
Pio, BigK only received back what he ditched out (also to me a while ago on my thread and here on TKO – you know exactly what I’m talking about). “You reap what you sow” is a saying that applies to ALL people in life and unfortunately BigK is one of them.
And I swear I just heard an ******* (with a small "kahuna")! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I saw where the court case is over. Congratulations. To be honest, although I don't know the details of your H's past employment, reinstatement, in general, never makes sense to me. Too much bad blood. Anyway, I'm glad that is over for you.
Thanks Pio, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> we are also glad it’s over now. It's such a relief! I understand completely what you’re saying about reinstatement and “bad blood”...and that’s exactly why hubby decided to take the settlement instead in the end.
I can lead you to some ladies that are experienced with the OC situation, even a couple that have custody. I have never met my H's OC. I do understand the pain and shock of it though.
Did you bring a note to excuse your absence? Yes, I noticed you have been missing, is everything okay with you? Sure do hope so. How is your son now? Did the chiropractor fix his back?
Maybe you can help me with a question that I have. What is the protocol if you need to delete something you posted? I've been searching the site to find info. but computers and I don't mix very well.
By the way I've noticed you like Jackson Browne, he is performing here in the next couple of weeks. Have you ever seen him perform live? Would you recommend going?
Did you bring a note to excuse your absence? Yes, I noticed you have been missing, is everything okay with you? Sure do hope so.
Hi Beth, hope you are well.
No Mommy, no note . I spent the afternoon with one of my docs while he had his staff run every test known to medical science. I had developed a complication over the weekend and the goal of the tests is to determine the cause.
Quote
How is your son now? Did the chiropractor fix his back?
I talked to him an hour ago and he was heading out to his back cracker. Seemed to be a little better. Thank you for asking.
Quote
Maybe you can help me with a question that I have. What is the protocol if you need to delete something you posted? I've been searching the site to find info. but computers and I don't mix very well.
Beth, to my knowledge, you cannot delete the entire post, but if you click Edit, and then delete everything you typed in the post, or perhaps then type "Post deleted by member" or something to that effect, it will serve your purposes.
Quote
By the way I've noticed you like Jackson Browne, he is performing here in the next couple of weeks. Have you ever seen him perform live? Would you recommend going?
Yes, I saw him when he was on "The Pretender" tour. Since his early years in the seventies, he has gotten more pop with his music. Still great lyrics and music but nothing like his early stuff. IMHO, he peaked with the "Late for the Sky" album. It was one of the best concerts I have ever been to. I will say however, that it really helps if you are a huge Jackson Browne fan, otherwise, many of his songs will be obscure and unfamiliar.
Yes, I am still playing on the computer! They could easily become an addiction.
Thanks for your reply Todd, sorry to hear you are having a problem. Please keep us updated.
I wish to explain why I asked about doing deletes.
I just want to let everyone know that my WH had a little (?) conniption when I mentioned I had posted on here regarding our current situation. He feels that as I post under my real name, we live in a small enough area to be known and I have stated where we live. I have also stated his profession and mine etc.and we are quite well known that I am not remaining anonymous.
This would normally not bother me but now with the situation with the OC he feels I should delete some information I have given. I do agree with him. You just never know who is reading here or their motivations. So, please forgive any deletes that I do. I am not being devious etc. just for our own protection due to the situation we are now in.
It's funny, but I forget this is an open forum for the world. I tend to think of TKO as my own little safe home.
Okay, fair warning was issued. It is time to get political. This time on education. The following will discuss and refute two commonly held beliefs about education quality.
Many school systems today require that teachers have Master’s degrees. After all, it makes the teacher a better teacher since he/she is better educated, is taught better methods and just generally a better teacher. If this is true, we should see empirical evidence of this belief. One such item of evidence would be SAT scores. If the supporters of masters degrees are correct, we would see a positive correlation between percent of teachers with master’s degrees and SAT scores. What does the data indicate? It depicts quite the opposite relationship. Linked below is a graph depicting SAT scores and percentage of teachers with master’s degrees. Here is the conclusion: SAT scores decrease 1% for every 1% increase in the percent of teachers with masters degrees. Does this surprise anyone?
As you can see, values are plotted on the graph and a linear regression analysis is shown. The number tagged R2 is merely the Coefficient of Determination.
The second, and perhaps, more strongly held conviction is that there is a positive relationship between teacher’s salaries and SAT scores. After all, when you see a school rankings guide, this is one of the primary criterion used to formulate such rankings. This one has to be true, right? I mean, why wouldn’t higher salaries attract the better, if not best, teachers? Unfortunately, this fervently held belief is also false. Consider the graph at the linked site below.
It looks similar to the first one doesn’t it? This one really begs the question: why is there not a relationship between SAT scores and teacher salaries. The following is my interpretation and opinion. This belief is based on the notion that teachers will migrate to schools, or school systems, which offer the highest compensation. I don’t think that is true for two reasons. First, how many teachers have you known who moved from say, Mississippi to New Jersey to take a better paying job as a teacher? Teachers, IMHO, do not become teachers for the money. Indeed, if they were interested in money, they would select another major. When considering teacher salaries, the only analysis which makes sense to me is to compare schools or school systems within the same MSA. Moreover, the only valid way to compare any salary is by adjusting the salary to reflect CPI differences.
It's funny, but I forget this is an open forum for the world. I tend to think of TKO as my own little safe home.
I forget that too Beth and I think the same thing. TKO is safe for us, but it's funny how you don't realize that the whole world can peek in.
Todd, I'm doing OK, thanks for asking. I'm sorry to hear you're having more problems. I hope everything is OK. When should you know the results? Keep us posted.
BTW, Todd, you have waaayyyy too much time on your hands! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Nothing to be skeered of. Linear regression is good for the soul. I prefer exponential curves simply because they are more interesting, but linear regression is fun too.
No, I would never ignore your kind offer. I somehow missed it yesterday. I had to go back and look for your post. I have sent you an email and thank you so much.
Well, y’all are just begging for punishment. Again, I fired the fair warning shot across the bow, but to no avail. The silence is deafening.
One of my favorite books is entitled “How to Lie With Statistics”. One of the examples of poor statistical analysis and conclusion is the case of the man who drowned in six inches of water. How is that possible? It was a very long pool with the deep end at seven feet and a shallow end of one/half inch. The shallow end was long enough to bring the average to six inches. Is the claim correct? Yes. Is it misleading? You bet. Such misapplications of data are common in our information driven world. You tell me your platform and what you want to “prove” and I can develop the statistical evidence to support your case. This is exactly how the Global Warming crowd has used information.
Do you know the ratings of American cities? Have you ever studied the changes from year to year? The top ten are constantly changing. How can a city be in first place one year, and seventh place the next? Let’s see, did traffic improve? Unlikely. Maybe the cost of living decreased? Hmm…when was the last time that happened? No, what changed were the measurements and interpretation. Again, what do you want to prove?
I will give you a great example of this. There is a publication entitled “Places Rated Almanac”. It was written by two gentlemen who live in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts. When it comes to climate, they claimed they had a better system. They first determined what the ideal temperature is. They concluded that it is 65 degrees F. Really? Let’s see, one could arrive at a 65 degree daily average through many different routes. San Diego may have normal highs of 68 and lows of 62. That doesn’t sound too bad to me. Or, it could be a combination of 80 degree F daytime highs and 50 degrees F nighttime lows. Either way, you get to a 65 degree F average. Incidentally, the way they measured deviations from their perfect 65 was interesting. For temperatures above 65, the ratings were extremely punitive; below 65, well no big deal until it got very very cold. To them. Personally, my ideal temperature would be 72 degrees F. The fact that we are encourage to set our thermostats to 68 degrees in the winter and 78 degrees in the summer strong suggest that the ideal temperature lies between those two numbers. So, I wondered why these gentlemen used 65 degrees. That was how I discovered that they lived in Boston. 65 degrees is a heat wave in Boston. Interestingly, Atlanta was number one in climate east of the Mississippi.
Here is another example of poor statistical interpretation and analysis. There is a group called Sperling which produces Best Places info for Money magazine. Mr. Sperling contends that it is not humid weather which bothers us; it is hot and humid weather. He asks the rhetorical question: have you ever heard of anyone complaining about cold and humid weather? ToddAC raises his hand but is ignored. I love, absolutely love, hot and humid weather. I absolutely hate cold weather. The examples go on. Almost all housing data today uses average cost of a single family residence in each area. The problem with this approach is that a typical house in Boston is very different from a typical house in Atlanta. Coldwell Banker developed a great tool for comparison purposes. Relative real estate costs only truly matter to those who are considering relocation. That is typically the ubiquitous middle manager. They determined the cost for a defined home in many markets across the country. Once the house type and size are isolated, then the comparison makes sense. If anyone is curious about the report, it can be found at the linked website below.
Suzet with a _, is there anyway you can return to Suzet with a *? I don't even know you anymore.
Hi Todd!
No I can’t, but I prefer the _ above the * anyway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
If anyone will try to put a non-alphanumeric character in the display name now, the following message will appear:
You can only have alphanumeric characters in your display name. Special characters are not allowed because this allows users to spoof other display names. You may use the _ character to represent a space.
So that’s why I’m stuck with a _ now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I would have preferred to have NO symbol after my screen name at all, but since that screen name already exist (the previous one of which I’ve lost the password long ago) it is not an option.
I don't know what all those things (linear regression analysis, Chebyshev's Theorem etc.) are, so there's no way I can engage in such a discussion with you, but you're welcome to explain to me what all those "big words" mean! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Todd, I'm hoping good news for you after your all day "visit" with your Drs. That must have been a fun day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Not much new with me. Just time flying by. The boys & I watched A Charlie Brown Christmas last night. They all, including my 15 year old, wants to watch as many Christmas specials as we can find. Sweet really.
Off to work with 4th graders today, should be fun.
Nice day to all!
P.S. I'm going to try for pictures today during my lunch break. The gallery was finally finished being set up last night.
Yeah, it was loads of fun. Hope to hear something soon.
That is really sweet about your 15 yo wanting to watch as many Christmas specials as possible. I cannot believe that I didn't see the Charlie Brown Christmas special
The French have bombed Central African Republic, a small country in central Africa. It has no air defense systems. Have the French set themselves up for yet another military defeat? Methinks so.
When I got to the school I was asked to switch for the day & work with special needs preschoolers. At first I wasn't looking forward to it but figured they needed the coverage there more so I did it. I actually like it. There were two aids who were fantastic & some of the kids were sick so we didn't have too many kids. Kinda fun.
I've taken pictures which I will try to upload now.
Some are repeats, just one shot better than another. The pieces that are centered in the photos are mine.
The first few photos are before glazing, then glazed. The color of the glaze before a piece is fired is not the same as it is once it has been fired. Ignore the messy studio photos. I wanted to be sure I got some photos so I took some just after I took the stuff out of the kiln.
Your work really is beautiful. I still love that red dish with the sweeping sides. I can just picture that one full of live pine, pine cones, bright shiney ornaments etc. It would be a beautiful decoration for Christmas and then my fruit dish after that. Yes, I have plans for your dish.
Thank you Nams for your comments the other day. You gave me a lot to think about. Also, I found a large segment on MB that addresses email EA's so I have been reading there a lot. Apparently it is pretty common these days.
I wish to help my best friend if I can. Her comment worried me too. I know about all the dating sites and that is how they work. But, I think when you meet that way there is a screening process first. She met him on a site similiar to ours. I now understand why it's not recommended to email the opposite sex on here.
Must think about sleep. Retail is a very long day anyway and is exhausting at Christmas time. Plus, tonight I went to a celebration for our Cross. Hopefully we are going to be allowed to keep it. A lot of us have worked long and hard for that. Hope today is a good day for you.
The French have bombed Central African Republic, a small country in central Africa. It has no air defense systems. Have the French set themselves up for yet another military defeat? Methinks so.
Well, since you are obviously a student of military history, surely you understand how it is when one fights against overwhelming, insurmountable odds! We can only admire that they've held out so long before the inevitable surrender. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The work for this show is meant to be small & affordable. I've made some things kids will be able to buy for their parents if they want to. The gallery where I have my work seems to have a price range & a comfort zone of style people are comfortable spending in & buying from so I've adjusted my work accordingly. I will make things more out of the zone on occasion when I get sick of the sameness.
I do feel I at something of a standstill with my work though. I need time to spend in the studio, uninterupted. Maybe some day.
Todd, how are you? Did you get the results from your Dr. you were hoping for?
I off with a dear friend to a pottery show. It will be lots of fun. Oh, & lunch too. Weee hee! Lucky me!
Average Spending/Pupil Teacher SAT Score (1993 Dollars) Ratio 1960 975 $1,700 25.8 1970 948 2,830 22.3 1980 890 3,835 18.7 1985 906 4,342 17.9 1990 900 5,193 17.2 1994 902 5,400 17.3 Sources: College Board, Dept. of Education COPYRIGHT 1994 National Review, Inc. COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group
Yet more evidence of the folly of commonly held beliefs about educational quality.
The columns don't line up well, but from left to right are year, average SAT score, spending per student and average number of students per class. Does this surprise anyone?
The US spends more per student than any other G7 nation, yet - yet - our kids score lower on standardized tess than any of the other nations. This is shameful. We are the world's economic and technological power, yet we are failing our kids in school.
I have a few hunches what is wrong with our schools; I am currently conducting research to validate, or invalidate my hunches.
Research on such things follows these steps:
Hunch -> Logic -> Research -> Theory.
If/when I arrive at any meaningful conclusions, I will post.
How are you? Any results yet? Is it tumor related? I hope that you will have good news. I know too well what it is like waiting on results.
Your stats. are very interesting. I will be interested to read your conclusions. On the subject of education. When we toured Australia I was told the parents there purchase all the text books etc. that their child needs. I can't remember all the details, maybe BigK could fill us in when he returns. At the time I was so surprised they don't have the same "free" education as we do. They also had a totally different system for teacher promotion. I am fairly certain they have a tougher criteria for advancing to college also.
Todd, I don't know what the weather is like where you are but I am heading to the beach. It is beautiful here today. I either surf or swim every day of the year. No surf early this morning so a swim today. It's just something I decided to do when I was ill and wasn't able. I so longed for it, so I decided to make the most of every day. Plus, it is great workout.
Still waiting on tests. Have some results in with no conclusions. It is likely tumor related, but indirectly. IOW, tumor caused imbalance of hormones, and that may be responsible, or partly responsible for problem. They know what is wrong; it is just a matter of determining why.
Beth, the Pacific Ocean water temperature is very cold this time of year. How is the world do you swim is such cold temperatures?
As for the weather, it is 54 here and sunny. Too cold for me.
I forgot to respond to your education comments. Today, as compared to any past period, teacher's salaries are higher, a higher percentage of teachers possess master's degrees, educational expenditures per student have dramatically increased and the number of students per teacher has decreased. We have been assured that the foregoing goals would ensure high educational quality and results, yet SAT scores have proven this notion wrong.
We spend more money on education, including per student, than any other G7 nation, yet our scores are in last place. It is time to rethink our approach.
My hunch for what is behind the decline has three parts:
1. The involvement of the federal governemt. By the time my youngest son was ready to enter school, I was fed up with government schools. I toured several private schools before deciding on one. As I toured the schools, I asked the "quality" questions. Among them, of course, was what was the average teacher's salary. The teacher's salary of every private school was lower than that of government schools. I asked how they could attract teachers. They had a two part answer:
(i) teachers are generally not drawn to their profession for the money. (ii) their teachers were willing to accept lower salaries in exchange for being free of excessive governmental regulations which includes excessive paperwork and tireless "standards" requirements.
2. The growth of the NEA. The NEA is a labor union. Like any union, its goals are to increase the pay and benefits of its members and decrease the workload of its members. Hmm...wonder if this is the source for higher teacher pay, smaller classrooms, etc.
3. The third one is so controversial that I will not post about it unless and until I have supportive data and analyses to prove it. And I could be wrong but early research suggests otherwise.
"How in the world do you swim in such cold temperatures?"
The Aussie crawl of course! I will add some trivia for you regarding the "crawl" that I found interesting.
On top of that you grin and bare it!! lol
Actually, it is not too bad at the moment - guessing about 58-60 degreees. But, I really don't want to know!! Plus don't forget the wonderful invention of wet suits, booties, gloves etc. I usually just wear a rash vest swimming though. As always in the water - just keep moving! I don't frolic, I swim. My boys and WH all surf too and we all scuba dive. Perfect location here for water sports, bit warmer would be nicer though. I spent some time in Florida and felt like I was in a bath.
If you are interested we have a great site on the internet you can look at. Scripps Institute of Oceanography, I'm sure you will have heard of it.
I understand about cures often causing their own problems. My thyroid was destroyed due to chemo and I have some heart problems but nothing too major. Live for the day hey.
I wish you good news Todd.
Trivia
The front crawl has been in use since ancient times[citation needed]. In the Western world, the front crawl was first seen in a competition held in 1844 in London, where it was swum by South American Indians, who easily defeated the British breaststroke swimmers. However, the English gentlemen considered this style, with its considerable splashing, to be barbarically "un-British"; the British continued to swim only the breaststroke in competition, as it was the fastest stroke they had.
Sometime between 1870 and 1890, John Arthur Trudgen learned the front crawl from Native Americans during a trip to South America. (The exact date is disputed, but is most often given as 1873.) However, Trudgen mistakenly used the (in Britain) more common breaststroke (scissor) kick instead of the flutter kick used by the Native Americans. This hybrid stroke was called the Trudgen. Because of its speed the stroke quickly became popular.
The Trudgen was improved by the British-born Australian swimming teacher and swimmer Richard (Fred, Frederick) Cavill. Like Trudgen, he watched natives from the Solomon Islands using the front crawl. But unlike Trudgen, he noticed the flutter kick and studied it closely. This modified Trudgen stroke, similar to the original Native American style, was known as the Australian crawl. In 1950, its name was shortened to crawl, technically known as front crawl. With minor modifications, this stroke is the front crawl used today.
I haven't been able to find an email address for you. Would you mind emailing me? My address is back on my posts now. I just have a question for you regarding your work.
What is your opinion on education/school vouchers?
I am against a government role in educaton in any form. I call them government schools instead of the euphemism, public schools. Vouchers assert a deepening role for the government. I believe all achools should be private. Yes, for the economically disadvantaged, this can be a problem. But the solution is cheap compared to what our collective governments currently spend/waste on education.
Quote
Have you been following the Wal-Mart story?
Yes, Wal-Mart is under attactk by the media, politicans and "concerned citizens". Senator John Edwards recently made the comment on TV that Wal-Mart workers earn the minimum wage; in fact, in his state of NC, the average pay is $10.25. The national average is $10.11. He also said that Wal-Mart does not provide health care benefits to its workers. This is a bald faced lie. Now, Edwards is a smart man. Was he delusional? No, he lied. Why? The war on Wal-Mart was declared by a union who is frustrated that WM workers are union free. This has been my real point in my posts about government and statistics: in our information and mass communication world, it is easy to lie, and the masses will believe you. Integrity? What is that?
I use a fair amount of polynomial regression. For some of my things I need an instantaneous slope so taking the derivative is very straightforward. I find polynomial regression to be very sensitive to the sampling distribution and certainly to the degress of freedom.
Todd, I'm very interested to hear your views on education. My oldest son went to a charter school, started by parents, for his middle school years. The teachers were a very dedicated group with much more freedom to be innovative than in public schools.
Though I wouldn't need a master's degree to teach in a private, charter or magnet school I do feel getting my master's would give me much a broader range of school to apply at. I'd also prefer more, rather than less, pay even if I'm drawn to the job because I love it.
I understand your view on government involvement, however, don't you think our government should have a vested interest in producing educated citizens?
I use a fair amount of polynomial regression. For some of my things I need an instantaneous slope so taking the derivative is very straightforward. I find polynomial regression to be very sensitive to the sampling distribution and certainly to the degress of freedom.
Todd, I'm very interested to hear your views on education. My oldest son went to a charter school, started by parents, for his middle school years. The teachers were a very dedicated group with much more freedom to be innovative than in public schools.
my sons' high school was also a charter school. It did make a difference which really proves my point: the more you get government out of the schools, the better the education.
Quote
Though I wouldn't need a master's degree to teach in a private, charter or magnet school I do feel getting my master's would give me much a broader range of school to apply at. I'd also prefer more, rather than less, pay even if I'm drawn to the job because I love it.
Naturally and you may commute to a school or system for better pay. But would you relocate 1,000 miles away to take a higher paying teaching job? Most would not. Moreover, the data are clear: there are negative correlations between teachers' salaries, classroom size, masters degrees held by teachers and government spending on education.
Quote
I understand your view on government involvement, however, don't you think our government should have a vested interest in producing educated citizens?
Short answer is no. We as a country and a society have a vested interest in producing educated citizens but why is it the government's job? What has our government ever done in a productive and efficient manner? The primary reason private schools are better, on average, is because they are mostly unfettered by the government. As for government producing educated citizens, the jury is in. We have the worst educated students of the G7 countries, even as government spending on education has quadrupled over the years. Our government has failed our kids in education.
I have a question. After the fall of Saigon, many Vietnamese were brought to the USA as refugees. A military base near where I lived was one of the detainment centers. After a while, the Vietnamese were released. They went to school and, on average, got great educations. The resource was there. They just decided to use it.
There are multiple English based education systems in the world. This is a debate I am somewhat in the middle of because it is a decision we have to make for our DDs. It is also difficult to switch systems "mid-career". What I have seen is that students brought up in the IB program, for example, seem to have an easier transition to the "American" system than vice-versa. Someone was telling me about a fairly new hybrid system developed on behalf of Shell specifically to allow students to move more easily between countries.
Governments don't usually do things because they are right. They do things because it is in their interest to do them. For the government it is complex but simple math - the math is simple yet too complex for anyone in the government to be able to figure it out. If you take the simple theory that education means productive jobs then that places less burden on government welfare programs.
From where I sit, I get the impression that the government wants us pregnant and in the kitchen and I don't understand why. I know for a fact that the government is continually placing more obstacles to expatriation. They don't like their citizens being overseas.
Looking at the larger scale, I question the value of education in that it doesn't offer unlimited potential. More and more "hi tech" jobs are going overseas. That can't be stopped. Globalization is a dangerous thing and the US will be left in its wake. I think the US needs to take a serious look at how it is going to fit in the new world order and target its education to meet that need (whatever that need is and I haven't figured it out yet). China is well on its way to surpass the US as the world's super power. Even India is now scared of China. IMO what the Chinese have just begun to figure out is that the only thing missing for them to rule the world is to master the English language.
Based purely on antecdotal evidence, which is comprised of my real world observations, the community which feeds into a school is the largest shaper of school quality. The community is composed of individual families. Each family has its own set of values in how they view education and more specifically, the drive they instill in their kids to excel in school. Asian Americans are well-known to emphasize education and my sons' friends who were Asian Americans did not see them much socially because they simply were not available much of the time. So, to your point, I believe that the Vietnamese whose kids got good educations was due to their won desires and values, in spite of the government.
China is well on its way to surpass the US as the world's super power. Even India is now scared of China.
Considering that China has approx. 850 trillion people, they should be. It will still take them some time however. Last year, the annual growth of the US economy was greater than the entire Chinese economy.
If there is a country which should be worried, it is Japan.
Maybe I should rephrase. Shouldn't our government have some responsibility in ensuring American children are well educated?
Keep in mind I'm not saying they ARE ensuring only asking if they should.
No. We could have private associations which could do a better job of setting standards, benchmarks and measures. Plus, education should really be molded by parents. It is arrogant that the government believes it can do a better job of eduating our kids than we can.
Interesting what you say about the Chinese vs. American economies. What is the basis for the comparison? If it is "per capita" then, yes, China will always get short-changed. But the growth in virtually all sectors in China boggles the mind. If the US runs short of cash, they just print more money regardless of what that might do to inflation. I'm not sure how the Chinese do it. What we are seeing is their massive investment in construction. It has a direct - and quite negative - impact on us oddly enough.
Not per capita. The amount of growth in the US economy last year was larger than the entire Chinese economy. It is difficult to believe because: (i) the media constantly reminds us how poorly our economy is doing and (ii) we hear nothing but wonderful things about the Chinese economy. But it is a fact. It puts it in perspective.
Japan does have a problem but it is not recent. They are suffereing from outsourcing as is the rest of the developed world. They practially rebuilt South Korea all by themselves. Now South Korea is outsourcing. In another 30 years, Bangladesh will be the richest nation on the planet. How fortunes change. I am thinking of investing heavily in Bhutan!
Nah. That outsourcing is a problem is yet another myth perpetuated by labor unions and the all too willing American media. For some bizarre reason, even the whacko environmental groups are jumping on the bandwagon. The mantra today is: if it generates revenue, do it in-house; if it is an expense, outsource it. Why? Because expense driven departments within corporations take on some of the characteristics of the government and become stodgy and inefficient.
Back to China, its government reports a rate of 30% non-performing loans. The US believes it is closer to 50%. The GDP growth statistics of China are as reported by the Chinese. Not surprisingly, we believe that their numbers are fudged. The Chinese, perhaps better than anyone, know that perception is reality.
Another perfect example of media bias and deliberate inaccuracy in reporting earlier this week. The AP ran a story listing and discussing the 10 myths about hybrid cars. One of the “myths” is that hybrid cars are expensive compared to their gasoline counterparts. The AP offered the Honda Accord as an example of a hybrid car that was not materially more expensive than its gasoline cousins. Being one to develop my own facts, I researched it. The MSRP of a 2007 Honda Accord Lx is $21,520. A 2007 Honda Accord hybrid retails for $31,685. Okay, blame it on my having been educated in Southern schools, but that seems like an extremely large difference to me. Without turning the calculator on, it looks like a 50% premium for the hybrid. Why did the AP lie? To support is platform of saving the world from “global warming”.
Can you envision the time when national governments will no longer be necessary? Defense is just about the only "value added" that the government can provide any longer and they are becoming increasingly ineffective at that. Schools? Go private. Social Security? Go private. Welfare? Privatize. The thing about government is that they cost more while offering progressively less in terms of service. What businesses follow this model (besides airlines)? Not many. This is where the disconnect is. I never understood the word "disenfranchised" until I moved overseas. But I see it now. My government no longer represents my interests and has no desire to do so.
All governments have been really capable of doing the past few decades is control of information. Technology is outpacing government's ability to control it. Where I live, they have essentially given up the effort and instead have chosen to profit from it.
So in your ideal system, governments should earn their revenue (i.e. taxes). What are the key services that they should offer in return. Regarding labor unions, I had the experience of working for two different companies in the same business - one with a union and one without. The one with the union went from first place to last place due to high manufacturing cost, poor quality and low productivity. It wasn't like automobiles where we could just keep raising the sticker price. That's because the company without the union was more than happy to get 40% EBITA and didn't need more.
If I do a material balance on the planet, the only true form of renewable alternative energy is solar radiation or a byproduct of it. I saw an article about a guy who invented a car that could run thousands of miles on a gallon of water. Somebody is not seeing the big picture here. Let's not forget that within the generation, water may well cost more than crude oil.
In my system, the federal government has two functions: national defense and a judicial system. And national defense means defense so I would bring the troops home from Germany, Japan, etc. It is not a coincidence that we have troops in those two counties. And for the judicial system to flow smoothly, I would remove all unncecessary laws from the books. The only acts which would be illegal would be those that threaten life, property or liberty. All the laws designed to protect us from ourselves or promote morality would go away. So, if ToddAC wanted to buy a bottle of MM, he could do so. If I want to gamble, I would be free to do so. Prositution would be legal as would drugs. BTW, my libertarian positions are not endorsements of the foregoing; simploy that an individual should be free to do what he or she desires so long as he doesn't interfere with the life, property or liberty of another.
At the linked website is the DoD list of all the countries where the US have military personnel. Admittedly, most of the numbers are very small, but it still begs the question: why are we there?
Okay Todd. Stop wasting my time then. I project you with a maximum of 113 electoral votes and that's only if you don't make any major screw-ups. You simply are not electable.
You are quite right of course. The year 2008 will be the year of Hillary. Giver her eight years and our electorate will vote for me. Heck, they would vote for anyone after eight years of Hillary. And Bill. And Buddy.
Hey I've given this more thought. At even half that number of electoral votes, you would qualify for federal matching campaign funds. This could be quite profitable. You might even get that dollar back you've been giving every year.
Your concept of a benevolent government provokes thought. I have a question. Before I ask I will comment that I detest cigarette smoking and cannot stand to be around it. I avoid certain airlines because of it.
I struggle with why the govt would want to impose bans on cigarette smoking. Supposedly the govt is only interested in banning things that cost it money. So how does cigarette smoking drain govt cofers? Taxes on cigarettes generate govt revenue. I can see how cigarette smoking costs business money but isn't that their problem? If that is the only motivator, why couldn't the govt simply pass a law that businesses have the right to not hire or dismiss employees for cigarette smoking if that is their wish without fear of litigation? Seems like it would solve everyone's problem. Second-hand smoking lawsuits would be limited to the individual guilty of the infraction rather than the cigarette company who made the cigarette guilty of the secondhand smoke or the plastics company that made the packaging to protect the cigarette so that it could reach the end-user in a good enough condition to cause the secondhand smoke or the trucking company that delivered to cigarette package to the store or the store that sold the package that caused the secondhand smoke or the match company who made the product that lit the cigarette taht caused the secondhand smoke - damages limited to the guy inconsiderate enough to pollute the air so that we cannot enjoy the fresh smell of diesel or other fossil fuel emissions.
Does smoking increase health care costs? Isn't that good for doctors and nurses who make more money to pay more taxes? Or is medicare the issue? Restrict smoking-related illnesses from medicare coverage. Again - go right to the source of the problem rather than simply try to make it such a nuisance to smoke that people will give it up.
Please explain to me in dollars and cents what the govt has invested in this debate because I don't understand it. Smoking is only an example. Helmet laws also fall under this umbrella.
Actually what started me thinking about this was your stance on prostitution since someone could make the argument that passing along STD's was not a harmless event where nobody was hurt. Even so, what is the govt's stake in this?
Well this is just an update on the hamster situation. Mama hamster was begining to get fiesty with the 6 babies who aren't really babies any more. In the other cage, one of the three fought with the other two. So WW was taking mama out and putting her in the carrier as solitary confinement. She put the other troublemaker in a separate carrier. Okay mama chewed a hole in her carrier because it was tapestry. So WW decided to put her and papa in a plastic bucket. Plastic bucket went into garage so maid could clean the kitchen. At some point the garage door was left open. Cutting to the chase, there was no chase. For the neighborhood cat, it was like shooting hamsters in a barrel. So now we are down two hamsters on the count. I am a little upset with WW. I admit she did solve a growing problem but I just don't like the way it was handled. I told her she has to explain this to the DDs. It's not my problem.
Eek! Pio! Very grisly end to the rodent problem. Did G intentionally, or perhaps secretly, wish for the hamsters to run off?
Todd, I'll say this about education. I do think our government, meaning our tax dollars, should be spent on education.
I'll agree the government has bungled the job & should find successful models (Japan for one, some private, some charter type) & learn from them. If we need to privatize education to ensure better educated citizens, fine. However, tax money ought to be used. We can't ensure a well educated citizenry if a big segment of our population can't afford it. It behooves us to place more importance on education & the right sort of education, that which will allow us to excel in the global environment.
Just like Pio, I don't have the answers, but I suspect they may be complex & not one size fits all. As you pointed out communities shape their schools. How do we get the communities, in which poverty & the daily struggles that come with that, to put education in the forefront for their children?
Not sure where you're going with the charts on SAT scores, number of master's degrees & the quality of education, but from what I see the majority of our teachers have the desire, knowledge & the ability to teach & can do it well.
Perhaps it's the system trying to do too much? For better or worse, our schools have taken on the challenge of trying to educate those, who at one time, would have been left behind. From my view this bogs down the rest. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there are un-educatable kids, just that the current approach seems to be slowing the process for other, more capable kids.
The schools are now also forced into roles they may not be best suited for & those are of social worker & police. Unlike private schools or charter schools where you have a high degree of parental involvement & the school can often choose who they will take, public schools have everyone they must educate. There was a time when kids deemed too disruptive or not capable enough were shipped off to a classroom by themselves where not much learning took place. The trend now is to include them in the regular classroom. This takes away from the kids with middle level & higher abilities. Again, I don't have the answers.
In no way am I critical of teachers. We have been told for years the ingredients necessary to ensure a good education for our kids. Now, is there a cause and effect relationship between higher teacher salaries and lower SAT scores. Not directly, I don't believe. Did smaller classroom size lead to a lowering of SAT scores? Nah. What is evident however, is that SAT scores have dropped while we have done all the things that experts told us we need to do. What would be government's solution to this problem? Throw more money at it. Just like Bush did with his "No Child Left Behind" program. While I have no doubt that he had good intentions, the program is folly. And BTW, when I see teachers striking and picketing at the beginning of what otherwise would be the start of a school year, something is wrong.
My sons went to what is one of the three best high schools in Georgia. A few years ago, US News and World Report conducted a study of HS in America. They named six as the best. Our HS was one of the six. A local television station has an annual show entitled "High Q". It is the high school version of the old College Bowl. Every year, 600 HS are invited to participate. Those are chosen on the basis of academics. It has been held 19 years. Our HS has won 12 of the 19 competitions. Every year, our HS has more Merit Scholarship winners than any other school in the state, including the elite Atlanta private schools. Highest SAT scores, etc. Do I think it is a decent school, yes. Could it be better with less "help" from the federalales? Yes.
The northern "arc" of suburban Atlanta is the area which has experienced the most population growth. Our school system and the two next door are the best around. These are the areas which attract corporate transferees. Most - yes most - students who transfer into one of these schools is put back a grade because testing shows that they cannot perform at their current grade level. This includes schools from the northeast, midwest, west and elsewhere in the South. I had neighbors who moved here from Minnesota which has an excellent school reputation. All three of their kids were put back a grade. They were livid. They were also insulted. This is Georgia, after all. But, guess what? Two of the three still had problems performing at their former grade.
Our HS is a charter school. Does it outperform because it is a charter school? No, I believe it became a charter school because of the same reason it was a good school in the first place: the community.
Nams, you mentioned socio-economically disadvantages students. If there has ever been a disadvantaged student, it was I. I grew up in a public housing project and we lived on $73.00 monthly and went to schools on the "wrong side" of the tracks. Yet, I made straight A's all the way through school, scored in the upper 1% nationwide on all achievement tests (well, except the aforementioned reading comprehension) and did well on the SAT. Why was I able to excel in school? My parents, despite how poor we were, valued education. They correctly saw education as my ticket out of the neighborhood. It worked. This used to be a country about individual responsibility. The primary job of ensuring kids have a good education, are taught values, etc., belongs to the parents. When government attempts to be the surrogate for this job, it guarantees mediocrity. Still, there are parents who don't see the need. Am I in favor of helping them? You bet. I simply don't want the government to do it. Private charity in this country leads the world. I do my part. If the government would stop taking so much money from me each year, I could/would do more.
I should add that one of the reasons that I have a hunch that SAT scores have declined is because we have so many kids taking the SAT these days, compared to decades ago. We also have kids going to college who should not be. When I see colleges accepting kids with 700-800 SAT scores, something is wrong. Those kids could go to tech school and learn a trade and do very well. In this high tech world, you can do a lot worse than get a two year tech school diploma in computer programming. One of the kids in my HS was a not-so-smart guy who took every shop class known to man. After HS, he didn’t even pretend to want to go to college. He opened an automobile body shop. But, his love was taking a normal car and add custom body panels, spoilers, dams, etc. He is filthy rich today and loves his work. Can you imagine this guy being a desk jockey?
Beginning in 1965, the government started using our schools as social experiments. I believe that is the primary problem with our schools in addition to government “help” in general. Cause and effect in such matters is very difficult to prove; I believe I will at a minimum be able to demonstrate a positive correlation.
I also hate cigarette smoking. Hate the smoke, the smell, the stains - everything about it. It is well documented that smoking is bad for you. Still, many people smoke. I think they should be free to do so. Does it raise health care costs? No question. Does obesity raise health care costs? Undoubtedly. So does skydiving, hang gliding, hot air baloons, driving cars, etc. It is not - nor should it be - the government's job to protect us from ourselves.
As for the incredible rise in health care costs, whom do you think bears the primary responsibility? Doctors? Hospitals? Drug companies? Nah. It is the government. Again, I have a hunch that I can demonstrate a positive correlation between government intervention into health care and health care costs. How? Through Medicaid and Medicare. Name one thing the government has not botched.
I recall years ago, a politican in Illinois who sponsored a bill to make it a law for motorcyclists to wear seat belts. Can you imagine?
As for prostitution and STD's, again, it is not the government's job to protect us from ourselves. You know the risk going in. Besides, more get STD's from people they know. What's the difference? In the former case, you pay to get it. Why do we need government to intervene? Now, if a group of women hold me down, and take turns raping me and I get an STD......forgot what my point was.
You wish huh! I can just picture you struggling to get up too. Okay I am leaving that topic alone now!
I thought all the men would be sitting in front of their television sets today. Are you a College football fan Todd?
I came here actually hoping to find that Larousse had posted. If you are out there Larousse will you please contact me? My email address is on my posts.
I am a college football fan but I have been spoiled by the quality of the SEC. I have no time for the Pac 8, the "Big 10, the east coast, etc. Ohio State is rated no. 1 but look at their schedule. They play Bowling Green, Slippery Rock, Indiana, etc. Any team in the SEC has the capability to beat any other team on a given Saturday.
On education - I think parents are responsible for teaching their children. I taught both my sons to read before they went to school. That way I KNEW they would come out of school knowing how to read. They both also learned Spanish in the home, and went to bilingual classes the first 3 years.
I think you misunderstand the nature of the question. What I can't understand is why the govt took up anti-smoking as a cause. What was the motivation? I can't see that it was financial unless the govt views people dying as reducing the tax base. That is just too much of a stretch. If you leave humanitarian issues to the side (and why not? the govt does), who benefitted?
Helmets and smoking - My guess is that they cost lots of money, because folks end up with lung damage or brain damage, and don't die for years and years. They collect social security, use medicare, get expensive nursing home care, etc.
Separate post so Todd won't evade my smoking question.
Regarding education, one thing I have felt for a long time is that people (especially in the USA) no longer have a sense of self-responsibility. Everything is somebody else's fault. I'm fat? McDonalds is putting the wrong kind of oil in their french fries. The govt. should do something about it. How dare they use cheap oil for profit? Oh, BTW, can you supersize that for me?
I'm not getting a good education? The govt should spend more money on teachers' salaries. Don't make me study. It's not my fault.
The woman burns herself with hot coffee as she pulls out of the drivethru when her cellphone rings and she tries to answer it. There should be a law against hot coffee or at least put warning labels on the cups.
My favorite is the farmer who broke his leg while painting his barn. Starts painting in the fall. Weather gets bad and he doesn't finish. A few nice days come along. He paints a bit more. Of course he keeps moving the ladder. One fine spring day, the sun comes out and he decides to paint some more. The ladder slips, he falls, breaks a leg. He sues the manufacturer of the ladder and wins. Turns out he had the ladder in the pig pen and, according to the court proceedings, the ladder maker had neglected to warn the farmer of the viscosity of pig manure relative to temperature.
We are becoming a nation/world of people no longer responsible for their own actions. Infidelity? Not my fault. It was the fog.
We are becoming a nation/world of people no longer responsible for their own actions. Infidelity? Not my fault. It was the fog.
Precisely. I was at a business luncheon years ago and someone asked me the question what did I think was the number one problem facing our country. I said the erosion of self-responsibility. Unfortunately, the more the government takes over, the more the masses look to the government for “help”. I’ve seen countless souls interviewed on television who say they expect the government to protect them. Good luck. With national defense, yes. Otherwise, you had better look out for yourself.
Senator Joe Biden announced that the Democrats will “negotiate” drug prices for Medicare. I speak Congressionalese. Allow me to translate: he means that the government will stipulate to the drug companies the prices they can charge the government. Mark my words: five years from, after adjusting for the number of people on Medicare and for inflation, the amount that the government spends on drugs will be higher than it is today.
Maybe I have a slightly skewed perception on this but it seems like there are two types of democrats: 1) the democrat who is very wealthy and wants the govt to "give back" to assuage a sense of guilt for being extremely wealthy (e.g. Kennedys) or 2) those who are poor and want the govt to dole out so they will be less extremely poor. The former rely on the latter to give them elected offices where they can then go and negotiate higher prices because they have never actually had to earn anything before and don't really know what the word "negotiate" means but understand it makes a good sound bite.
Has there ever been a study to compare the increase in net worth of the average congressman while in office in relation to his salary? Surely the GAO has some stats. I have difficulty understanding the concept of "public service". It is my feeling that anyone who wants to run for elected office should be automatically disqualified. At what point in history did the words noble and nobility diverge?
I missed your point on the mass exodus of CEO's. I can't see what is illegal about back-dating stock options. it is a bit unfair in that it is not applied equally to all levels of the organization and only a select few can benefit from the practice. Actually back-dating is a little counterproductive in terms of employee retention. The worst thing you can do is hand an employee a bundle of cash. Assigning stock options at current trading prices is brilliant because they are worthless yet the employee cannot resign lest he lose his worthless options.
To be honest, I have an entirely different theory on the greater stock trade. After the IPO where the company does generate cash, let's say that a company retains 1,000,000 shares and 1,000,000 shares are publicly traded. The share values go up and down but, assuming the company never buys any shares back nor sells any of its retained shares, what does the company really care about the stock price? Oh sure its net worth is affected but what really matters is cash flow. Maybe the company's credit rating suffers and it costs more to borrow but that is not huge. The only people on the company who care about the share price are the ones with stock options. Their decisions are based on personal gain.
I worked for two companys that went from being closely held to IPO. We went from a 5 year business plan to a 90 day business plan. We lost market share, we lost revenue but we increased shareholder value. We were never allowed to invest in future business because the returns were deferred beyond the quarterly earnings report. So stocks, while good for many fledgling businesses, can hinder more established businesses. I view the NYSE and NASDAQ as legalized gambling. How can somebody be for stocks but against the lottery?
When we toured Australia I was told the parents there purchase all the text books etc. that their child needs. I can't remember all the details, maybe BigK could fill us in when he returns. At the time I was so surprised they don't have the same "free" education as we do.
Depends Beth - Public Schools are essentially free or a small nominal "voluntary" contribution with all text books supplied.
Private schools are user pays. Some of them provide text books, some don't. Some provide textbooks up to senior school.
Well this is just an update on the hamster situation. Mama hamster was begining to get fiesty with the 6 babies who aren't really babies any more. In the other cage, one of the three fought with the other two. So WW was taking mama out and putting her in the carrier as solitary confinement. She put the other troublemaker in a separate carrier. Okay mama chewed a hole in her carrier because it was tapestry. So WW decided to put her and papa in a plastic bucket. Plastic bucket went into garage so maid could clean the kitchen. At some point the garage door was left open. Cutting to the chase, there was no chase. For the neighborhood cat, it was like shooting hamsters in a barrel. So now we are down two hamsters on the count. I am a little upset with WW. I admit she did solve a growing problem but I just don't like the way it was handled. I told her she has to explain this to the DDs. It's not my problem.
This is hands down the funiest post on this thread for a while. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Well I have to admit that it has reduced the stress level in the house. Mama hamster had been a serious problem for quite some time. I thought it was post partum depression but she has been very agressive and viscious for quite a few weeks. Initially I thought she was just protecting her babies but she got to the point where she was mean to them as well. Two weeks ago WW was handling her and mama bit WW really hard. WW was surprised by how hard mama could bite so she stuck her finger out in front of mama's face. Duh! Mama got a jaw lock on WW's finger and it took three of us to pull her off. Since then we have been afraid to go near the cage. If she sees anyone, she runs at the cage door and leaps and does a spread eagle all the while hissing, snarling and gnashing - yes she did indeed gnash. (I'm talking about the hamster - not WW) No mistaking a gnash when you see it.
So I guess I'm not too upset about the cat incident. In a certain sense it is justice. Live by the fang - die by the fang I always say.
Interestingly this has changed the whole balance of power in the community. We took troublemaker out of the cage with the brothers and put him/her (haven't looked under the hood yet) in the cage with the six babies. It will take on any one of the babies but the others quickly come to the defence so we have detente for the moment.
I also have a cat permanently installed outside my garage I can't seem to get rid of. I've tried water hose, taser gun, blow torch and pepper spray. No luck. Any other ideas? Wait a minute ... maybe I should have tried those things on the cat!
So funny, I laughed until I cried. You could be writing for a living.
BigK,
So good to see your post. I'm okay thanks. Came here crying from reading the post Steph. did on her thread and now I am leaving laughing. Hope you are heading in her direction...
Todd,
You have disappeared tonight. Hope you are out having fun. I'm a very old Bruin (UCLA) so I have been celebrating today. It's been a long wait!
Here are the headline and the first two paragraphs of the story.
Record number of US CEOs depart executive suite
WASHINGTON (AFP) - A record number of US chief executives have left office so far this year amid a growing government investigation into stock options fraud, according to an industry survey.
A total 1,347 American CEOs have departed the executive suite so far this year, surpassing the 1,322 chief executives who exited their offices in 2005, according to outplacement consultancy Challenger, Gray and Christmas Inc.
This tells me that 1,347 CEO’s left office because they had committed stock options fraud. And there were 1,322 the year before. Very alarming.
But, then the French come clean and tell us this:
The majority of CEOs left office due to retirement or a resignation, but a rising number are being forced from office due to probes into stock options backdating.
Hmm…..now we read that the “majority” left because of retirement or resignation. Wait, different story.
This is what the press does over and over. The press hates business so they slant the verbiage in such a way as to make corporations look as poorly as possible.
Quote
After the IPO where the company does generate cash, let's say that a company retains 1,000,000 shares and 1,000,000 shares are publicly traded. The share values go up and down but, assuming the company never buys any shares back nor sells any of its retained shares, what does the company really care about the stock price?
Ah, my friend, the same mistake the press makes. First, the company cares about the value of its retained 1,000,000 shares. Don’t forget, the company is not the “company”, it is owned by its shareholders. If you are a CEO, you work for the shareholders so you want the shareholders to be happy. It would be no different than if an investor comes to you and says he will back you financially to start an engineering consulting business. For your efforts, he will grant you 50% ownership. Would you care how well he thinks the company is doing? He can replace you at any time.
Pio, I find your hamster situation...disturbing. Sounds like they are running the household. Who wears the pants over there?
Todd, I'm fine, thanks for asking. Are you well?
You & I agree on the fact government ought to step out of our lives on many levels, cigs, helmets, drugs (illegal), prostitution, to name a few. However, we likely disagree on the government's financial involvement/contributions. You have a strictly hands off policy where I would like to see financial backing, without daily management of, some important areas all citizens gain from.
I absolutely agree with you on too many people taking SATs & this is, perhaps, one reason the scores are lower. However, there are kids who have not done well in school, won't do well on their SATs but in the proper atmosphere, with good teachers to spark their interest will find something in college they can excel at. Yes, tech schools are an excellent choice for many.
I'd like to see less emphasis on SAT scores & more on the individual & their particular capabilities & their level of desire to achieve a goal. This would require lots more work for colleges & universities to determine who would be a good fit for higher education, but, in the long run, may just get them more committed students.
I also wonder about going right off to college after high school. Many can & should, but a year off for those who are less certain, doing something (intern?, apprentice?) related to some fields of interest, rather than some crappy job just to get by, would help many kids find a direction. A City Year program type of concept.
I also agree with you on lack of personal responsibility. I tell my boys their education is in their hands. Our schools have excellent resources, teachers included, & it is their responsibility to take the lead. I tell them if they want questions answered, are having problems, need help, they need to ask for it a seek out help. In all likelihood the teacher will be more than happy to help them, seeing that they are making an effort. The way most classrooms work is the focus is on the lower end ability kids & the higher functioning must help themselves.
I understand the thinking behind this. No child is un-educatable & all should be provided with an opportunity to learn. This just doesn't work in its current form for the middle on up.
I view the NYSE and NASDAQ as legalized gambling. How can somebody be for stocks but against the lottery?
Now Pio, come on. You know better than this. Your chances of success in the lottery are roughly 1 in 40 million. Some are a little lower some are much higher. With a little education and application, you can consistently make a nice return in the stock market.
I have been a stock trader for 12 years. By trader, I don't mean investor. I buy and sell stocks according to technical analysis which primarily makes use of graphs. Much of the time, I only know the ticker symbol; I couldn't even tell you the name of the company or what they do. I couldn't care less. It can be simple or complex depending on your goals and approach. A seasoned trader can consistently make 15-20% annually without taking on undue risks. If you are willing to undertake risk, IOW, experience large standard deviations, you can make much more.
Many people try trading the first time each year. Most bomb out for the same reasons people bomb out of everything: they are not prepared and do not have a well-thought out approach.
Well we made the gingerbread house finally. It took me about 4 hours of labor and WW one hour of labor. We have about $1,700 invested in sugar, flour, spices and decorations assuming we don't count labor. WW wants to make more and sell them. She is thinking of asking 150 SR (about $40) but thinks that might be too much. She plans to do some market research. She is torn between trying to up the unit cost to about $60 or lower it to about $20 to increase sales volume. The good news is that there aren't that many man-hours left between now and Christmas so my projected losses do have a ceiling.
Here are some photos. Keep in mind that we are limited here in what we have available as adornments and the base is a cheap piece of plywood because we are going to give this one away to a friend of WW's and I refused to part with anything more valuable.
I was thinking. Unless you place the GB house in the middle of a table and, say, place it on a counter against a wall, you can't see all four sides. So I got the idea to make the houses like a Hollywood movie set and only make GB house fronts and corners. No need to make a back and it would reduce the unit cost.
Okay BigK I found a way around the proxy server finally and got to see the squirrel melts. I was going a different direction. I have noticed that about half the baby hamsters have light and dark markings that are very similar. I have also noticed that they have similar colorings to chinchillas. Factor in that WW has always wanted a fur coat and influenced by the fact that DDs were watching 101 Dalmations yesterday and I got a brilliant idea. I have decided to raise baby hamsters so that they can make a fur coat for WW. I did a search on chinchillas and see that it takes about 2000 chinchillas to make a fur coat. Doing the ratio for size and rounding up, I guess I need about 4000 baby hamsters. At the current rate of production, this could take some time so I am now adding smoked oysters to papa's diet to get his libido up. At the same time I am looking for tiny little needles and thread. I haven't quite figured out yet how to teach the hamsters to sew though. I don't really understand how those little animals can make fur coats. I guess that's why it takes so many? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I need some help. I have a math problem and you, being good at math and all, might have a solution. While I was in the shower this morning I began thinking about the 4000 hamster target and I realized that I was thinking too simplistically (imagine that!). While I was working on ways to increase the rate of baby hamster production, it hadn't occurred to me that I needed to consider the mortality rate of baby hamsters as well. To be honest, I don't even know how long baby hamsters can live. We have yet to have one go from natural causes. For all I know they might live to be hundreds of years with no natural enemies in their environment. Maybe like sea turtles or something. That will definitely be an independent variable. Considering natural enemies, I was going to estimate the number of stray cats and work out their consumption rate of baby hamsters mitigated by their opportunity (i.e. incidence rate of garage door left open). But then it occurred to me that any animal's population will be proportional to its available food source. I got that from a National Geographic special on the Serengeti and substituted "hamster" for "lion". So it logically follows that if WW accidentally continues to provide a food source for the neighborhood cats and we increase the rate of incidence of that food source, then we should get some proportion of more stray cats. This is where it is all getting very complicated. I also have to account for the hamsters' other natural enemy. I just caught DD2 last night barely in time. She had put her Barbie goggles and snorkel on one of the baby hamsters and was filling up the bathtub and another hamster was "surfing". Okay I caught that on in time but how many other times am I NOT going to get there before the damage is done? So there must be a way to work out the math. What I need is an estimated date by which I will reach the 4000 hamster mark considering all factors. I can do the differential calculus but it is the actuarial math that confuses me. Don't they use factorials or something?
BTW, I have now found a way to keep the troublemaker hamsters under control. I propped up a wallet size photo of DD2 near their cage. Any time they get fiesty, I just hold the photo up for them. Gets their attention. I admit I am also being a little cruel to the hamsters. Every time I walk by the cage any more I "meow". It is just so funny to watch them "ball up". Can't do it in front of WW though - she hits me.
ex's mother was the oblivious type. She wanted, & got, a fur coat. A jacket & a stupid little girl looking hat that tied under her chin. I picked her up one day to go with the me & the boys to the local aquarium. Well, she had on her fur. I suggested she leave it in the car as she might get hot, but nooo she wore it in. She got the nastiest looks & interpreted them as jealously. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I don't create the market. I don't wear fur myself. But if I don't teach my hamsters to sew, I am 100% certain that there will be tens of thousands of Chinese hamsters sewing night and day - sewing their little paws to the bone - to try to undercut my manufacturing costs. At least I'll give my hamsters one day a week off and only work them 18 hours per day. OMG - Do you think they'll want medical? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
The ratio of baby hamsters that your DD will touch is 25:0 per 25 baby hamsters.
Thus the population of your hamsters will gradually decline, but the good news is the stray cat population will maintain its status quo.
If you can work your way around the touching thing, I've heard the carrot and stick plan works well for teaching hamsters to sew: the carrot really is a carrot, and the stick is electro-shock aversion therapy. It will teach your hamsters to greatly dislike not sewing.
So if I understand the concept correctly, the exponential growth curve representing the rate of change of the population and the instantaneous slope of the asymptotic death rate curve representing the cumulative effects of mortality by both natural and external factors are infinitely divergent???
My final word on hamsters - I remember being delighted when some little aussie boys came knocking on my door. They said they'd asked their mum and they were each allowed one each. Two of the boys were known to me and the other two were their friends. They already had a couple of cages because they'd had them before and we gave them some sawdust and hamster food to start them off!
What a waste of time. These vile little ferral kids were launching the hamsters into the swimming pool - a kind of "how long will the hamster live if we abuse it" game. They have since been sent to boarding school in Oz because they are out of control.
Well I found DD2 putting bandaids on troublemaker hamster's feet. I was curious so asked why. She refused to talk. I took the hamster and removed the bandaids and found that he had blisters on his little feet. I was furious and asked how that happened. Again - silence. After much pressure she finally showed me what had happened. She was taking the hamster and pushing him quickly and repeatedly along the floor and yelling "vroom vroom vroom". I asked why. She replied that it worked with her wind-up car. She was trying to make him run.
With regard to how far you can throw things, I will say that I know for a fact that it is possible to throw a water balloon from the 14th floor of the Al Wasl tower in Dubai and have it land on Sheik Zayed highway. It only looks impossible. I don't have any more I want to say about that.
Actuarial math? It would seem to include conditional probabilities, Markov chains, stochastics, Poisson, CLT, Brownian motion and probability distributions. Probably permutations and combinations, yes. Unfortunately for your sweat shop hamsters, they are victims of several forms of the Gompertz Law and the neighborhood cat and DD2 seem to be competing for the title.
There can't be any Brownian motion. All my hamsters are grey.
Oh BTW, my DD2 is quite the scientist and has been doing some laboratory experimentation. She has now disproven the hypothesis that, if you cut off what little tail a hamster has, it will grow back AND, more importantly, she has disproven the notion that the little bit cut off will grow a new hamster.
I just had to look it up. It was larousse who was so upset at BigK because he hates and mistreats koalas so much. She will be dismayed to learn of the fire; still more dismayed to hear of BigK's delight.
But then, larousse has disappeared so BigK may be safe.
Been off for awhile from posting, but 'lurking' so I won't have to catch pages and pages....did not want my 'blues' to taint the thread....
I don't know what's up with my WS...I would have been less surprised had he filed for D....instead he gives me info. re life insurance in case he dies?????!!!!
Can't figure out my WS...and don't want to...sounds like his GUILT though maybe giving him real trouble...and making it unable to fully enjoy life in lalaland! ...or it's part of his strategy to have me eventually break PLAN B!
...didn't want to threadjack...but, for the curious...have a separate thread on it!
Todd and Pio....you seem to be discussing everything... except how you are doing? ...that may be 'telling' in itself!
Math humor...funnier than I thought it could be. When you skip over most of the math part of the posts anyway.
LAROUSSE, LAROUSSE, come out, come out where ever you are. Oli, oli. in come free!
Maybe that last part will tweak her curious mind.
Pio, maybe you're thinking on too large a scale for your hamster pelts. How about finding a different customer base. Perhaps you could market hamster pelt underclothes. Men & women would love the warmth, the soft coziness provided by the little rodents velvet like fur. Make sure you teach them to sew with the direction of the fur otherwise things might get a little...prickly.
On an army base I lived on at the beginning of my marriage there was a riding stable. I thought I'd take a couple of lessons. While getting to know the horses I was petting one's nose. So, so soft...I got kinda lost in the softness & remarked..."I'd love to have a pair of shoes made out of this."
They were horrified & watched me very carefully from then on.
...didn't want to threadjack...but, for the curious...have a separate thread on it!
Pio...I am talking (maybe too much!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...don't take it personal...to each his own way....I respect YOUR WAY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
...just worried a little about the hamsters...don't think they have a clue about you PLAN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...go easy on them...would you please! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
...just worried a little about the hamsters...don't think they have a clue about you PLAN!
...go easy on them...would you please! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Luna,
My name is ToddAC and I represent the United Hamster Workers, or the UHW as it is commonly referred to in the press. We represent the 43,000 hamster workers worldwide. It is repulsive that business men such as Pio can run sweat shops in SA. As with every other sweat shop, these owners hide behind third world countries which have no interest in ensuring the dignity of hamster workers. We visited the factory and were dismayed to find the hamsters had literally been worked to the bone and were bleeding profusely from their little paws.
We have lodged protests with the SA government, the UN, the US government, ASPCA and PETA.
I should add that the UHW is not against cats per se, but is against cats eating the defenseless hamster workers. We contend that Pio was negligent or even complicit in letting the neighborhood cat eat several of the unfortunate workers.
If you and others want to ensure humane treatment of hamsters, look for the "Fur made Fair" label in the coat or stole you consider buying.
We contend that Pio was negligent or even complicit in letting the neighborhood cat eat several of the unfortunate workers.
Anything to say in your defense, Pio? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
(...as far as I am concerned...been watching too many Law and Order for toooo long!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
uhmmm...I am missing your point here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...let's see....gerbils are a type of hamsters....so Pio has hamsters for a brain?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Oh my...don't think that would go over too well with Pio! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
...but I have a feeling there is more to your comment than meets MY eye... (..or, NOT!)
...maybe just missing out on a 'cultural reference' I am not familiar with.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...don't suppose you could consider elaborating it, Cind?
(....I know...I know....it's just not the same if you have to explain...)
Gerbils for brains? I'll have you know I am just as smart as any gerbil! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
How am I doing? For some reason I am filled with anger. I'm not sure if it that today is our wedding anniversary, the holidays or just the full moon. Mostly I just swallow it. Last night I told WW I was angry. We talked a little but not much. I told her that I have never felt this alone at any time in my life since high school. The past few days have been a little hectic too. I'm really not sure why I am angry. If WW has done anything wrong during this time, maybe it is complacency. I do think she is trying. I also know I don't trust her. Yesterday I felt exactly the way I felt during her A when she would run off for silly reasons and if I asked her that something was going on, she would get huffy and accuse me of not loving her.
Yesterday's trigger was when she called me from the gold club house (I don't know for sure if it was the club house or not - just that is what she told me). She played in a tournament in the AM and had lunch afterward. I knew she was going to do that so never expected a call. I had thought she might call from the house later. Anyway, it reminded me exactly of the times she would call me in the office right before her trysts with OM so that she could be certain of where I was and sure that I would not catch her.
For some reason I have had OM in my dreams the past few nights. Yesterday I was thinking that maybe the reason I was feeling this way was that something really was going on. I certainly don't trust WW but haven't had any real reason to believe she is back in her A or into a new one. I did ask her. She denied it. I also told her that I wouldn't expect her to confess if she were so it is a real dilemma.
I did say last night that I feel that we don't really communicate that well at the moment. Neither one will tell the other what they are really feeling. We are kind of like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Arms hacked off and we say it is only a flesh wound.
Anyway, I guess I don't really feel lonely. But I do feel alone. Maybe that doesn't make sense. It is hard to put into words.
Maybe obtusity is the crux of my problem. I honestly don't know what to do. I think I have been trying to follow your advice and follow MB guidelines and give myself time to reconnect. All I know is I am extremely unhappy and I have no clue what to do about it.
Great to see you back. Yes, GERBILS had me puzzled for awhile too but then my old medical training came to my aid and I remembered it stands for Grand Enormous Right Brain Intelligence Level Situ. Guess Cinderalla has medical training too. The good news is that Pio will be okay. Just needs to stimulate the left side of his brain a little more.
BigK,
Hope you have been out there rescuing a koala. May not be cute and cuddly like they look but they are gorgeous. Sounds like you are having an early fire season but I hear the country is parched. As I write a fire is raging near my girlfriends house north of LA, they are talking evacuation. Five homes are gone already and thousands of homes are threatened. When we had our big fires here a couple of years back Aussie Firemen came over to help. They left a good impression on our community.
Todd,
What a great Union Rep. you make. How's the stats. going? Come to any conclusions yet?
Pio,
The Holidays are notoriously tough, wish I could help. Just hugs to you.
Hi to everyone else. Hope you all have a good week.
I know it could be the holidays. That's why I haven't done much about it. I don't know why I am suddenly having these dreams. That bothers me more than anything else. I am hoping to just ride this through to January and see where I am then. That is my "plan". Is hope a plan? For WW's part, I can't fault what she is doing. I have felt and still feel that it is way short of being "enough" but I know she is trying. I am so sensitive to every little thing.
BigK,
Why can't I trust WW? Let me think... Oh, now I remember.
I just wanted to say hi and that I've missed you all!
Pio, I think BigK told me once that hope IS a plan....maybe not...
Todd, did you ever get your test results in? Let us know!
Hope everyone else is well.
I haven't had power at my house since Friday and it is now Tuesday (early), which is why I haven't been posting much. Plus, I've been a little pre-occupied. See my thread for details.
If you haven't had power for days and it is really cold there, how do you keep your pipes from freezing? If it is really warm, what did you do with the food in the freezer?
BigK,
I don't know that answer. I have always been told that trust takes time so it hasn't been my priority. I also am having an internal struggle trying to redefine my personal beliefs about marriage and fidelity. I'll be honest, at times I just want to call this whole thing off. But I see the DDs soundly sleeping in their beds when I go to bed at night and I see them asleep dreaming blissfully about chocolate milk when I egt up in the morning and I remind myself that it is my job to protect them. That makes me feel both good and sad at the same time.
You see Luna? This is why I am reluctant to post about the situation. Where is Todd anyway?
I misread your post. I thought you wrote "disingenuous". Now I can see that you wrote "disingenious" which I am guessing means "stupid". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I don't know that answer. I have always been told that trust takes time so it hasn't been my priority. I also am having an internal struggle trying to redefine my personal beliefs about marriage and fidelity. I'll be honest, at times I just want to call this whole thing off. But I see the DDs soundly sleeping in their beds when I go to bed at night and I see them asleep dreaming blissfully about chocolate milk when I egt up in the morning and I remind myself that it is my job to protect them. That makes me feel both good and sad at the same time.
I doubt Pio that anyone has ever thought you are stupid - certainly not me.
Pio - exactly what do you want or need from Gemela? Because even through your filter, the descriptions of her actions indicate she id doing everything she can think of to recover with you. Exactly what do you want from her? Boiling in oil perhaps?
Your children are a wonderful reason for a BS as well as a WS to try and recover a marriage but in they end they are not enough.
If you haven't had power for days and it is really cold there, how do you keep your pipes from freezing? If it is really warm, what did you do with the food in the freezer?
It is really cold here...well, average cold for this time of year anyway. I have had my faucets on since Friday to keep them from freezing. I haven't checked the food in my refrigerator or freezer yet. My guess is that by the time the power is back on, it will have all gone bad. Lucky for me, I'm one that actually likes grocery shopping! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Good to see you here. Do you have a generator you can use? I was living up LA when the last big earthquake hit, swore I would never be without one again. What happened that you are without power for so long?
BigK,
I'm good thanks. Wish I knew how to post a smile!
Just realized that 2much is missing as well. Hope everything is okay with everyone.
Well just an update but WW had put another hamster in the bucket in the garage. Apparently Todd's visit to the factory had its effect because that hamster has staged a "walk out". It is no longer in the bucket.
How do I translate "once burned, twice shy" into Spanish so I can make WW understand? At this rate, I will be hamsterless in about 4.369 days according to my latest projections.
You have cast your marriage as something you will endure for the sake of DD's. You have made yourself a martyr. How could you possibly ever be happy with WW when you are staying with her for reasons other than your love for her? Staying for DD’s is a noble act. Unfortunately, it will ensure your unhappiness.
You need to recast yourself in the role that you stayed for your M and for your love for WW. Even if you don't really feel love for G - and I suspect that you do, that have employed the protective heat shield of a coping mechanism - remember one of the lessons of TRLT is to change the way you face an issue and replace negative self-talk with positive. The alternative, my friend, is a stark existence in grey twilight.
Good to see you here. Do you have a generator you can use? I was living up LA when the last big earthquake hit, swore I would never be without one again. What happened that you are without power for so long?
Thanks Beth...I've tried to get on here as often as I could. No, I don't have a generator. I'm not staying at my house though. I haven't since Thursday night/Friday morning. It's way too cold at night for that. I even got my pets out of the house last night. I was worried about them being there alone, in the dark, and so cold. Now they're warm and safe, so I'm happy.
We had an ice storm Thursday night that knocked all the power lines down. Our whole town and surrounding towns were without power for a while, and some areas still are. My mom lives 3 minutes from me and she got her power back Sunday afternoon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, that's my story, but we're OK.
Hi Pio...yes...I am concerned about you...so...thank you for sharing... and since you are...I will also assume that you are 'open' to getting feedback...
Now...I know I have no experience with M recovery...but I am getting some in 'personal' recovery...since I am in PLAN B and I have a lot of time on my hands...and I do believe personal recovery and M recovery go hand in hand!
Quote
For some reason I am filled with anger. I'm not sure if it that today is our wedding anniversary
Stop right there!....wedding anniversary??? That's as big a 'trigger' as you can get, I think!
...now...you may have already read this article...but this is what I have found very helpful when it comes to 'triggers'... because..the similarities of my being in PLAN B and you wanting M recovery....have one step in common...grieving the loss...of what WAS! ...and be able 'manage' the loss on a daily basis...
(Pio...trying to locate the article....but won't hold up post...will post when I get it...it's been mentioned around here a few times...maybe you already have it?...anyways...stay tuned... will get back to you about it EDIT: Thanks to SAG06...here it is: http://www.drjoecarver.com/) , select Articles: Emotional Memory: Dealing with Trauma Memory
Quote
I'm really not sure why I am angry. If WW has done anything wrong during this time, maybe it is complacency. I do think she is trying. I also know I don't trust her. Yesterday I felt exactly the way I felt during her A when she would run off for silly reasons and if I asked her that something was going on, she would get huffy and accuse me of not loving her.
It sounds to me, Pio...that you have put UP a big wall... a defense mechanism...to protect you, no doubt...(can't blame yea, man!) and at one point you will have to decide whether it's worth staying behind it...ALONE but SAFE....or take it down, reach out to connect, but at the same time become vulnerable and expose yourself to being hurt again!
...it will be your decision....OTOH...if deep down you might feel you don't have the tools yet to risk anything...but you would really like to take the wall down...please consider getting some 'professional' help with it!
Quote
Anyway, it reminded me exactly of the times she would call me in the office right before her trysts with OM so that she could be certain of where I was and sure that I would not catch her.
...that brain 'file' was out too long....and you experience the emotional pain again with the same intensity as the first time!
Quote
I certainly don't trust WW but haven't had any real reason to believe she is back in her A or into a new one. I did ask her. She denied it. I also told her that I wouldn't expect her to confess if she were so it is a real dilemma.
Don't bother asking her Pio...look at what she DOES! ... even you are prepared to admit that she is TRYING!....
...she cannot GO BACK and change the past....she cannot GUARANTEE the future....work with her in the present... if she is making any efforts...sounds to me....it's not because you are helping!
...how would your efforts compare to Harley's Rules of Recovery?
Quote
I did say last night that I feel that we don't really communicate that well at the moment. Neither one will tell the other what they are really feeling.
Pio...are there no resources in SA for you to consider to help you guys out with this?... sounds like neither of you feel 'safe' to be honest about your feelings to each other....
Quote
Anyway, I guess I don't really feel lonely. But I do feel alone. Maybe that doesn't make sense. It is hard to put into words.
...you just have! ...and it makes sense!... because you are not ALONE in having those feelings!
Quote
Maybe obtusity is the crux of my problem. I honestly don't know what to do. I think I have been trying to follow your advice and follow MB guidelines and give myself time to reconnect. All I know is I am extremely unhappy and I have no clue what to do about it.
You are doing it, Pio....being honest and vulnerable... without wanting to always 'fix'.... nothing to fix until you know what's broken....
Quote
Is hope a plan?
Nope! Next question...
Quote
You see Luna? This is why I am reluctant to post about the situation.
But you are...and as far as I am concerned...it's a step in the right direction.... learning to get out of your 'comfort zone'....being honest...you got nothing to lose with us, right?
...anyways, can't hurt to 'mull over' some of the things we say....at the end of the day...you will decide what you want to do!
Your DDs welfare is a good 'starting point'....a motor... but I don't think it can sustain you long-term....
I am sure you have been involved in 'teamwork' on the job...well.. a M is the same... G. failed at it in the past... but now, in the present, are you IN or are you OUT? ...are you contributing to achieving endgoal or doing some sabotaging?
((((((((((PIO))))))))
Sigh....BigK??....do you know why you and Ark are my idols?
Alright...the fish is biting...what the heck are you two talking about? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Hi Beth,
Quote
Yes, GERBILS had me puzzled for awhile too but then my old medical training came to my aid and I remembered it stands for Grand Enormous Right Brain Intelligence Level Situ. Guess Cinderalla has medical training too. The good news is that Pio will be okay. Just needs to stimulate the left side of his brain a little more.
Thanks....uhmm...I knew there was something more to it... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> now...what's the 'left side' of our brain responsible for? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Posted this song on my thread....thought it might have a 'larger' distribution by posting it here!
Michael Buble has recorded this song, but I first heard a excellent version sung by a Canadian Idol finalist last year - Rex Goudie....a real cutie-pie! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
People, I wouldn't leave me in charge of the thread for tooooo long...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...anybody know what's up with Larousse and 2much????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...before I report them to the Principal's Office???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
FEELING GOOD
Birds flying high You know how I feel Sun in the sky You know how I feel Reeds driftin' on by You know how I feel It's a new dawn It's a new day It's a new life For me And I'm feeling good
Fish in the sea You know how I feel River running free You know how I feel Blossom in the tree You know how I feel It's a new dawn It's a new day It's a new life For me And I'm feeling good
Dragonfly out in the sun you know what I mean, don't you know Butterflies all havin' fun you know what I mean Sleep in peace when the day is done And this old world is a new world And a bold world For me
Stars when you shine You know how I feel Scent of the pine You know how I feel Yeah freedom is mine And I know how I feel It's a new dawn It's a new day It's a new life For me
I called my girlfriend this morning and there is some good news. The Santa Anna winds have died down and they are getting control of the fire. The Santa Anna winds are warm and we have had temps. in the low to high 70's here on the coast and in LA it has been over 80. Don't think I will tell Steph. that though!
Todd,
How are you? It's been awhile since you updated us. Hope you are doing well.
Today I am heading out to start my Christmas shopping. I am going to try and get it all done in one day, so wish me luck. Hate the crowds though so may end up doing it all on the computer yet.
Alright...the fish is biting...what the heck are you two talking about? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
It's a mexican stand off - each of em trying to stare down the other. Whoever blinks first loses.
I don't think you should be reluctant to post Pio. Your emotions are up & down & confusing but you have articulated more about your feelings here in a couple of post than my ex did over a 21 year marriage. If you think I'm exaggerating, I'm not.
Here's something that made me mad & sad this week that ex did.
My middle son's Spanish teacher wanted to see us on conference day. We talk about son not doing all the work he should & finding ways to get him to do it. The conference is over & ex asks the teacher if middle son told her we lived in Spain for almost a year. The teacher is surprised & says no. ex goes on to say how great it was, WE all enjoyed it, WE all had a great experience, it was a great experience for ALL of us.
He's right, it was all of those things but it hurt like he!! for ex to refer to how happy we were knowing how he seemingly walked away from that so easily.
Also, today I get an email from ex saying how great it is we can share Christmas gifts for the kids saying what a good example it sets.
I've been getting a vibe from him lately I don't like. It's like he thinks we're friends & the past is simply past & we're moving on, no hard feelings.
Pisses me off. And it brings me to tears.
I don't intend to say anything like: Listen up ex, you & I are NOT friends. I will co-parent in the most cooperative way I can that will benefit my boys. I do NOT want to sit around & joke & reminisce about the old days as if we'd mutually agreed D was best for all.
Is the Spanish teacher a woman? Sounds almost like he was chatting her up if it is a woman. Personally I like staying in those parent-teacher conferences about as much as I like staying in a dentist's chair. Get me out of there as quick as you can. No way would it EVER occur to me to chitchat.
Hi BigK, I wouldn't say it because there'd be no point in antagonizing ex. I'd rather he made the effort to get along & be friendly than pull out the passive aggressive chit he seems to like so much.
His acting as though this marriage of ours is so far behind us seemed so insensitive. No clue.
Yes, Pio, I prefer the shortest possible time spent in conference with the teachers.
ex LOVED Spain & considers himself to be a long lost Spaniard & will chat to anyone about Spain.
The Santa Anna winds are warm and we have had temps. in the low to high 70's here on the coast and in LA it has been over 80. Don't think I will tell Steph. that though!
Ya let the cat out of the bag Beth! Thanks a lot...go off running to your hot little beach...I'll stay here and freeze to death....no problems! LOL. I'm kidding. But I am slightly jealous. Our high temp. for Thursday is 21!!! Tomorrow's high is in the 30's. After that we should warm up to 43. Can't wait!
I still have no power at my house. I went home today and cleaned my house sparkling clean in the cold. But at least it will be nice to go back home to a clean house. I love that feeling! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well I have been fighting the computer for the last 40 minutes. The mouse pointer was frozen on the screen. No matter what I did to move the mouse, it would just "jitter" but not move. First I tried replacing the batteries in the mouse. No luck. Then I tried to reconnect with the cordless receiver. No luck. Then I rebooted. No luck. Then I did a diagnostic on the USB port. Nothing. Then I uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers with the latest version. Have you ever tried to do that with only the <Tab> key? I am really angry about now because even after all I have done, the mouse cursor just flickers but won't budge!!!
Then I notice that the pen had fallen over on the digitizing tablet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I woke gemela up this AM and told her that I was sorry for how I have been the past few days and can only guess it was the anniversary. I told her that I can't fault her for the effort she has been putting forth and I appreciate all she is doing. I also told her that I really enjoy getting her calls at the office. Every time the phone rings, I look up in anticipation hoping I will see our number in the display and am always a little disappointed when it is not. I told her she didn't deserve the way I have been acting.
Here are some other reasons I won't tell ex to get his head out of his [censored] & consider the impact of his words. He is my ex, not my H, I have no say in or no control over what comes out of his mouth.
More importantly, ex has HUGE difficulty understanding his emotions & even more difficulty expressing them. The fact that he "opened" up enough to say what he did, as minor as it is, is a big step for him.
I'd feel cruel to step on that. Besides, it'd be an easy way to get an F.U. aimed at him but I'd feel bad if I did it. Kind of like taking advantage of a weakness.
Feeling this way also pisses me off & makes me sad.
Thanks for the hug stph. {{{stph}}}
The reason I can't plan B ex is because I don't want my boys to ever feel put in the middle. If we can maintain civility & cooperation my boys benefit.
I woke gemela up this AM and told her that I was sorry for how I have been the past few days and can only guess it was the anniversary. I told her that I can't fault her for the effort she has been putting forth and I appreciate all she is doing. I also told her that I really enjoy getting her calls at the office. Every time the phone rings, I look up in anticipation hoping I will see our number in the display and am always a little disappointed when it is not. I told her she didn't deserve the way I have been acting.
You know, Pio it's kind of interesting. I really wouldn't want ex back. He'd have to be a very different person than the one he was the last couple of years of our marriage & different than he was during the "good" years too. I need an emotionally aware man who can discuss what he feels.
Maybe it's just not in me to be vengeful. Not that I wouldn't wish for ex to see the destruction, pain & loss. I think by pointing out his careless & hurtful behavior is an intimate act & that's not something we share.
Actually I believe I do feel this way. I think I have been posting for a few weeks now that gemela seems to be putting out a lot of effort. I don't remember having criticized much of anything she is doing except for maybe "complacency". If I am honest with myself, I have to give her credit for her efforts.
As Todd correctly points out, there is a certain amount of defense mechanism involved.
I wrote (on a different subject) something about once burned, twice shy yesterday. I cringed when I posted that thinking BigK would be all over that comment like a Mexican woman on flan.
Todd is also right in that I also have to open myself up to more potential pain if I want to get out of this mess.
Todd is also a jerk but why state the obvious? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Insightful & probably right Pio. Still hard to do.
Back to me.
I realized something about ex & myself. ex married me with unrealistic expectations of marriage & of me. I married him with too few expectations of marriage & of him. We both didn't know enough to care for what we did have.
nams, you're welcome for the hug. Anytime. My heart goes out to you. Reading your last post makes total sense about too few or unrealistic expectations about marriage. WH and I married, I forgot I'm on TKO and can't talk about it. Sorry!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Pio-I'm very proud of you for opening up to Gemela. I'm sure she appreciated it. Feedback for effort is always nice. It's good to hear you be so insightful, but then again, you always are when you choose to be! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I woke gemela up this AM and told her that I was sorry for how I have been the past few days and can only guess it was the anniversary. I told her that I can't fault her for the effort she has been putting forth and I appreciate all she is doing. I also told her that I really enjoy getting her calls at the office. Every time the phone rings, I look up in anticipation hoping I will see our number in the display and am always a little disappointed when it is not. I told her she didn't deserve the way I have been acting.
How do you feel about being O & H to G.? . . . . because I am very proud of you for taking the 'risk'.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
...even though I think I may be on your 'ignore' list!
I'm not sure but I think he has decided to stop posting in protest of larousse's and 2much's absence. I agree. I'll stop posting too in the hope that they come back.
WH wants to come home. Doubt we will get anywhere in negotiations since he is trying to focus on me and what I need to do/be if he comes back and not on his willingness to do things etc. He says he would agree to conditions placed by me a few months ago r/t open, honest etc. He is all set with arrangements to stay gone if I do not decide to work on M with him. He basically feels like I am dictating everything, "as you always do".
uhmmm...I am missing your point here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
...let's see....gerbils are a type of hamsters....so Pio has hamsters for a brain?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Oh my...don't think that would go over too well with Pio! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
...but I have a feeling there is more to your comment than meets MY eye... (..or, NOT!)
...maybe just missing out on a 'cultural reference' I am not familiar with.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
...don't suppose you could consider elaborating it, Cind?
(....I know...I know....it's just not the same if you have to explain...)
I have found that when you have familiarity/interest in something, you find others with similar interest.
At my house, everyone has ADD or ADHD. We have some unique interests.
Anyway, my daughter came home one day and said she and a friend figured out that another friend had not taken his medication that morning. She said you could look at him and see the gerbils in his brain running at world-record pace.
So, we now refer to our most challenging moments by saying the gerbils are running really fast on their wheel. Working really hard and going nowhere - trying really hard with no success.
Pio - remember that effort needs to rewarded. It is a series of efforts that leads to success. Success is rarely achieved with the first effort. (Remember the adage, "Improving practice makes perfect." Not that anyone is perfect but you become better the more often you try.) If there is no reward for those efforts, it is unlikely you will reach the goal.
Okay now I am confused. Are you saying that my talking to gemela was reward for her effort? If that is the context, then whose goal are you talking about - gemela's or mine? If gemela's, what is her goal?
Opening yourself up to G was a reward. You've given her a glimpse of what's going on in your head & your heart. You've allowed yourself to show her your vulnerabilities.
I would have considered that a gift in my marriage.
I never left, have been reading all along but have been having some difficult days and like Luna mentioned, didn't want to bring down the thread by actually posting issues. I had enjoyed Todd and Pio's insane diversion/avoidance through politics, hamsters and math...areas I don't feel qualified to contribute to but still enjoy the banter.
I am pretty much right where Nams is at this point. No, WH has not moved back or even brought the subject back up. I had been trying to have as little contact as possible but the kids are insistent on doing some activities especially for the Holidays as a "family"...I want to tell them that we are not a family anymore b/c dad chose to act like a batchelor and is continuing to chose that life by not addressing R issues or any issues for that matter.
My anniversary was last month, WH bday, Thanksgiving and now right into my favorite time of year...complete with some good memories that are only acting as triggers to grieve "the good times". I can relate to Pio as well b/c prior to my insistence that WH move out we were trying to cohabitate and WH had not verbally agreed to any conditions although his says it was implied that he would...yeah...anyway, WH would leave to go get gas or run to the store or whatever...I never believed what he said and immediately got the physical and emotional panic, dread, anxiety identical to the timeframe of when I first discovered the infidelity...it brought everything gushing back as if it were fresh...now, was the WH being honest, did he deserve this??? I discussed it with him and told him I was really messed up from all of his lies, infidelity etc and that even if we decided to work on M, I would need lots of help to work through the aftermath, the landmines, hidden triggers, etc and that I would definitely need IC and MC. He left and the subject has never been brought up again, in fact I have had to make future plans based on plan D b/c WH using avoidance of any discussion, planning etc.
I have managed to complete 50% of my home improvements so that when spring rolls around I can put my house up for sale. I am still working hard on my next assignment but won't have any paperwork most likely until March...so basically I am in limbo in every aspect of my life but making plans and working toward specific goals.
The school counselor is now very familiar with my youngest who has been invited to join the D kids club. I am glad for her to have the support but sickened by the reality.
Bought a real Christmas tree, first time in 10 years since the big Crash of '98...kids helped me get it in the SUV, out and up in the stand...WH came over to help decorate it on the kids insistence...finished it late at night, WH left and I admired it while sipping my nightly glass of wine. Fell asleep content only to awaken to...you guessed it...the crash of '06. Laying face down on the floor with broken glass and ornament fragments...it is back up now but not redecorated...I am going to get fishing line and anchor it to the wall prior to rehanging ornaments.
We are doing a "family" Holiday activity Friday...it makes me sick b/c I hate pretending and am genuinely nice...although I have no expectations cognitively someone needs to tell my psyche cuz apparently she still gets mixed messages and then disappointed when nothing changes. I would do much better in Plan B and with concrete plans for the future.
WH brought my kids to his new place last week which was just another milestone in this venture...he actually asked me if I wanted to come??? Ah, let me think ...NO thanks anyway. I don't want to be able to have a graphic backdrop of your potential lovenest...of course according to WH all he does is work at new job and return home to an empty, depressing place and watch TV/sleep.
I apologize for the purge and that is basically why I haven't posted. Have cried alot, and ironically have my appetite back...the only benefit to infidelity and I am losing it:(
I want to comment...Pio I think you are doing fantastic and can only imagine dealing with all the triggers and trying to be kind and loving when you are dealing with lots of unresolved anger issues...are you in IC? Why not?
Stph, glad you are ok and warm.
Beth, you are amazing and with such a great attitude, I believe you are untouchable and will come out of this even better than when you entered.
Nams, sorry and hugs.
BK, keep on with your guidance, many take note, and some of us do but aren't strong/ready to act yet.
Todd, where in the world do you come up with some of this stuff...I don't think it is radiation induced...frightening for sure
Larousse, where the heck have you gone...I've managed to float to the surface...where is my cocktail buddy???
Cinders...you are a hoot...I can r/t hamster wheels...have an Asperger's kid who has the same issues...wheels are turning at times there is no outcome except lots of squeaking...Pio has a solution for the noise and now the hamsters!
Anyone I may have missed...hugz.
NOW BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR...or you may get a babbling book of stuff you didn't really need/want to know
PS. Did I mention my flash drive died and had 1GB of info that I never managed to back up...and the insurance company from the collision is trying to hit me up for damages exceeding my liability which is totally fictitious as they claim that the ambulance that collided with me is "totalled"...I need a good attorney, a visit to someone with real problems so that I can refocus on the important things in life like health, good kids and having the basics SORRY, felt the need to regurgitate that info...BTW speaking of regurgitation...dog just, no kidding, did just that...
Thanks for the update and sorry to hear of your current tribulations. The holidays can be a tough time of year so good luck. What do your kids think is going on? Do they think/know a D is in the future?
Quote
PS. Did I mention my flash drive died and had 1GB of info that I never managed to back up...
Well, I have to admit that this is something I am fanatical about. Every single day, I back my computer up. Problem is, it was only seven inches in front of the wall anyway. On the 34th day, my computer was pressing against the wall. I cut out a hole in the wall but within a few inches, my computer was pressed against the sheetrock in the next suite. So, I cut it out as well. I had to remove two studs to fit my computer through but so far, so good. At this point, my monitor is difficult to read because it is so far into the suite next door. The nice people don't seem to mind though. It seems the money I pay them is sufficient. My only problem - and I am so good at looking into the future and seeing problems - is that in 124 days, my computer will be in the suite on the other side of them. I really don't know what to do then. The manual only says to back up the computer regularly. Perhaps a call to tech support is in order.
I just got off the phone with tech support. Apparently, I have been backing up my computer the wrong way. According to them, I am supposed to use a disk to back up my computer. I was more than just a little embarassed. I got the housekeepers to let me into the suite next door so I could retrieve my computer and start over. This time, the right way.
I positioned the computer in its orignal spot, before all the backing up. Just as tech support told me, I used a CD-Rom, turned on its side naturally so as to not scratch the surface, and used it to push the computer back one half inch. I am puzzled. I fail to see how this is any solution to not having enough room to back up my computer. It is just a matter of time before my computer is in the next suite again. I need to call tech support back. I hope this time I get someone who knows what they are talking about.
Did you have a time frame for making decisions about your marital future?
Originally I was planning on waiting until Spring or around the time I would be due to move Spring/Summer 07 to take legal action. Recently, I told WH during an argument triggered by his offer for me to come and see his new place, that I would take action as soon as the holidays were over. Now, was his behavior PA to prod me into action? Not sure but doesn't matter...I told him I give, quit, whatever and will file since it will be his loss in the long run. I have no idea how he feels or what he thinks at this point. He continues to lie and double speak even when he no one is asking questions...appears not to be trying...seems to be a condition that he refuses to take control of or perhaps is happy with. I DJ'd and LB'd since I hit my breaking point and told him he was a pathological lying serial cheater that I did not want back in my life...now is all of this true...me thinks it is...if I am logical, analytical and realistic my family would be better off without him...just need to get my heart back on the same page...keep falling back to the fragment that there is a redeemable warm, loving person somewhere in that crazed WH.
His response to my name calling was that although I felt that way, he was still the father of my children and would remain a part of our lives like it or not. He would love for a happy co-parenting relationship where we acted like friends. I told him precisely..."newsflash, I am not your friend, I wouldn't choose or tolerate friends that treated me this way. I am the mother of your children and that is it." It has been difficult for the kids since I am preparing them for D and we do use the word and talk about feelings, exepctations etc.
How have you managed with your boys??? I keep reinforcing to my kids that they had nothing to do with this and that they cannot fix it nor would I expect them to. I read that kids think that if they alter their behaviors that maybe their parents will stay together. I am trying to be sure that they are clear that they shouldn't try this...my youngest is producing some awesome artwork with the assistance of a counselor.
Todd you are crazy and I love it since it made my day a bit brighter. I had the pleasure of getting a complete physical with all the labs etc so that I can determine my health state now that there is no physical contact between myself and WH. Being medical and all it didn't phase me but shortly after I had an emotional meltdown when the pharmacy didn't get RX's right due to an error on the part of the MD ....I left without my RX's seething at the incompetence and feeling that yet another person who said they would do one thing did not follow through and left me hanging...I didn't show any of this emotion until driving home rehashing it all in my head...
How on earth did you deal with your brain tumor at the same time as the WS...I would have had to have a spell of Tourettes and blame it on the tumor!!!! BTW, I was misting in joy for you when you found out the shrinkage factor. No need for Seinfeld references again...Curb Your Enthusiasm is even better.
Missed you guys...just couldn't even type my thoughts since it would make them that much more real. I prefer to live in my comedic existence and joke about things to keep from really dealing...that is why I love TKO. Yeah, I guess I'm in good company.
Thanks for the feedback. As for dealing with the tumor and WW, I guess I have compartmentalized. I am presidential material apparently because that is what Joe Willie Bob Clinton did so well. No seriously, I have said many times and mean it, my WW's cheating made dealing with the tumor much easier. The tumor is there and you have to deal with it. Your WW of over three decades cheat, and well, it is a different ballgame.
Sorry to hear of your medical tribulations and hope it passes soon. You need to get back to polishing your boots.
I called tech support again. This time the phone was answered in India. I told them my plight and I swear - I swear he laughed at me. He told me that I use the CD to actually back up the computer by putting the CD in its drive. I asked: Then what do I do? He said, you back up your computer.
I have read where the people in India make fun of our lack of computer skills so candidly, I didn't have the nerve to ask another question. So, I am typing on my computer which now has a CD in the drive. But tonight, when I back it up, it will again be closer to the wall again. I guess I need to go outside or at least to a gymnasium. I don't get it. What do other people do when they back up their computer? Am I the only one who backs up their computer? Can somebody share their success story?
I posted earlier that research follows the sequence:
Hunch => Logic => Research => Theory
I had a hunch about SAT scores and some of the factors which might influence or shape those scores. I previously posted links to regression analysis which clearly depicted a lack of correlation between SAT scores and teachers’ salaries, percentage of teachers holding masters degrees, dollars spent per student and lower number of students per teacher. IOW, as all of those factors “improved”, SAT scores went down. I had a hunch that some other factors were at play with regard to worsening SAT scores, specifically, more high school students take the SAT than ever before, which inevitably weakens the field and “help” from the federal government has been an intervening factor. None of this says anything negative about teachers, only that conventional wisdom does not hold water. For the record, I revere teachers and think we should pay them more money; not to attract better teachers because the ones we have are darned good, but to reward and recognize them for the important work that they do.
I started my research at collegeboard.com. This is the official website of the group that designs, implements, scores and reports the SAT. After much thought and digging through reams of useless data, I decided to embark on my research by studying two states of significant contrast. It is widely recognized that Connecticut has some of the best schools in the country. Teacher salaries and amount spent per student are tops in the country. Moreover, the population, especially centered around affluent suburbs such as Fairfield County, is well educated. Indeed, many of the residents of this part of Connecticut commute to work in NYC. For the contrast state at the other end of the scale, I selected Mississippi. Miss. is often the poster child for poverty, bad schools and general backwardness in this country. It is also the source of much historical hate between the races. If one ever wanted to find a backward state, so goes popular belief.
Very few things shock me in this world. A consequence of my background I would presume, but in any event, it just doesn’t. What I learned completely shocked and floored me.
Since Miss. has a large black population and Conn. a relatively small black population percentage wise, I decided to analyze the data to see how badly blacks were educated in Miss. The College Board reports scores, among other ways, by ethnicity. If the formatting holds, below are the SAT scores for Conn. and Miss.
CT MS INDIAN 976 - ASIAN 1109 1105 BLACK 846 905 HISPANIC 895 1083 WHITE 1061 1165 OTHER 978 1079 N.R. 1004 1093
Do these scores shock anyone other than me? The only ethnic category which scores higher in Ct. are Asians and only 4 points above Asians in Ms. Every other group in Ms. Scores higher than its corresponding group in Ct. Questions? Comments?
I have to admit I find this incredibly interesting. You need to dig further now...I think this calls for my favorite type of research...Phenomenology and or Ethnographic Research. Who is willing to fund the study or has one already been carried out? What are your theories now that you have the data? It is amazing the lengths we go to make sure our kids are in the best school districts etc for those of us who move alot. I am where I am only b/c of the "excellent" school district. I am looking at realestate in my next location based on the same thing...school district. I should look into Todds research and instead of looking at the school ratings should look at the outcomes and make decisions based more on those than on the school districts themselves and their report card ratings. Input? Thoughts? The soul reason I moved from rural North Carolina was r/t education...
I would look to individual schools. Even districts can have a large variation.
I should note that as reported, Ct has higher average state SAT scores than does Ms. Logically, this says to me that at least in the case of these two states, the ethnic composition of each state is a larger shaper of average state scores. Still, every group except one scored higher in MS than CT. It belies common wisdom. I rechecked my data after seeing this. Although I did not paste it here, I also checked Alabama's scores as I was certain that there were mistakes made in reporting Ms by the College Board. No, Alabama had similar scores to MS and again higher in every group than CT, with the exception of the No Reponse group which is a minor part of the total students taking the SAT.
I should also say that SAT scores are but one measure of education excellence but it is widely published and used as a "standard", especially by the states whose average scores are very high. I also plan to look at the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) test results.
Good stuff...scores are not necessarily congruent with performance and success in life though. However, I'm sure we all want to give our kids the best opportunity and highest quality foundation to build from...
You are quite correct. Scores are but one measure and SAT scores are limited to high schoolers. But my point is, it is widely used as a measure of school and system quality. That is why I started there.
Do you know that I have been putting that on job applications for the past 20 years? That way if I get extremely upset and scream and curse at my boss, they just feel sorry for me and I don't get fired. I highly recommend it.
Big crash of '06? You must have a cat. I grew up with a terrible combination of factors: a cat, 13 foot ceilings and at a time when artificial Christmas trees were those silver-coloderd aluminum foil things that came with the RGB rotating light to shine on it that, both fortunately and unfortunately, my mother hated. The fortunate part was that we always got to have a "live" (but soon to be dead) Christmas. [Maybe "real" is a better term.] The unfortunate part is that they were usually 11-12 feet tall (I recommend against high ceilings any more - also more time spent painting walls, etc.). Anyway, I don't know what it was that the cat had about the angel because the cat never quite got high enough in the tree for us to find out.
It takes a lot of work to get the center of mass of a 12 foot Christmas tree correctly centered over the stand including lights and ornaments. Even with all that hard work and calculation, the cat can change it in an instant (and invariably did). So I am quite familiar with the big crash. I have also since studied physics and mechanics of materials. So here is what you do. Take the fresh Christmas tree and lay it down on the ground and take a 1-7/16" wood bit with an extension and bore a hole from the base of the tree about three feet up inside the trunk. Alignmnet is not critical but the more concentric you can make it to the trunk - the better. Next take a six foot piece of 1-1/2" steel pipe. Now if you are not too familiar with pipe, please be aware that some pipe is "named" by it's ID and other by it's OD. You want 1-1/2" OD. You can use galvanized pipe or I prefer stainless although hard to find. Definitely don't use "black" pipe and I would recommend schedule 80 or even 160 for larger trees. Don't use schedule 40 pipe just to save a few dollars. In for a penny - in for a pound. Now take your air hammer with your compressor (rent one if you don't own one) and chip out a hole three feet deep in the floow where you want to place the tree. If your home is not on a slab, just cut a hole in the floor (I can give separate instructions for that if need be). Chip and cut down three feet. You've probably gone through the slab. Some additional work is required if you have a post-tension slab. Now this is really important. Since the hole in the trunk is smaller than the pipe, it is critical that the pipe be placed in the tree BEFORE you put the pipe in the hole. A good sledge hammer should do the trick. Once in place, take a measurement and cut off any little bit of pipe necessary so that it will go all the way into the hole. Now put the steel pipe and tree in the hole, position it vertically or so the tree looks good and fill around it with ready-mix cement. [Note: It may be necessary to cut a hole in the ceiling right above the tree if the tree is too tall because it now has a three foot piece of pipe sticking out the bottom.]
After the cement is properly dried, there should be no risk of crashes and you can let the cat roam free. Of all the methods I have tried, this is the safest.
I am curious. You are "in limbo" until March(?). That has to be a tough life because I'm sure that this isn't the first time. How do you cope with that? I guess I have been moved around a lot and sometimes without much choice or notice. It was always very stressful for me. That's one attraction for being where I am - reasonably "stable".
Dealing with "limbo" stinks but I am preparing as if I am moving somewhere...my plan originally was to stay here for good...I like the location, have a great home and kids are in an excellent school district...I owe 4 years payback for my 2 years of school so I figured I would try and do my follow-on assignment here and then if I separate we would just stay here. Now there are way too many bad memories, too many folks that have been involved with WH that I could possibly run into and high ops tempo which would put the probability of me deploying twice during payback time. The assignment I am working to get now is a great job, flexible and a nondeployable position due to the need for continuity. I would never have pursued it prior to this phase of life but it would be perfect for a single parent.
Hopefully this will all work out but honestly no matter what, I need to get the home improvements done, I will move somewhere or not and if it is not then I will have everything in order and just need to work on a plan for who/how the kids will be looked after when I am gone during deployments.
I am aggravated with WH b/c I believe he really wants Plan D since lately when I mention things re: future he never says anything about not wanting D or verbalizes any remorse or plan to try and convince me that I am steering down the wrong path...it is sad and I wish he would just grow a sack and admit that this is what he wants so that we could firm up the plans and move on. It is just a matter of time and I continue to move in the D direction as there is no behavior to sway me otherwise. The kids are aware and dealing as best a kid can during the holidays. I am trying to make the most and have fun with the kids and create good memories. I just wish he would make a distinction and do things with just them and leave me out...it is confusing for them and at times for me.
I don't know how you do it with all of the anger and having G up close and personal. I would errupt and LB/DJ...I would be tongueless. I don't know how you begin to establish trust except through accountability and having evidence that G is where she says she is when she says she is going to be there. If she is being accountable and you are able to confirm it then that would be tiny deposits of reassurance along with her attempts to win you back. It is now about her winning you back and you being willing to be won. I thought maybe IC would help with dealing with the anger, bitterness and resentment. If you are like me you can feel overwhelming love and warmth on second and searing fire of hatred the next triggered by a fleeting memory, song, article of clothing etc. I have to say despite handling things overall in a functional manner I am pretty messed up from all of this! Surprise, surprise...my kids have been my rock and motiviation to be positive. Beth seems like she has it all together and I don't know how she does it...
My remedy for life is coffee, wine, humor and prayer...it has worked so far.
I like playing chess but have never been all that great at it. I also haven't played in decades. Some people like thinking about all the permutations, possible moves, strategy. I don't. It sounds like you are, to an extent, playing chess.
Today we decided to make a GB house for us between birthday parties, art class and Christmas party tonight. Having done this for many years, I like to look for shortcuts. Since it is that time of year and there may be others who are tempted to make GB houses, these observations may help you avoid some pitfalls. First, while many hands may make light work, DDs doing a conga line around the kitchen to “Jingle Bells” does not. It may seem like a good idea as a time-saver to leave the splash guard off the Kitchenaid but it just SEEMS that way. There is absolutely no pleasant way to measure out a cup of shortening and then “add it to the blended mixture”. And, over the din of the Kitchenaid, stereo playing “Jingle Bells”, the dishwasher and the water running in the sink, you hear some indistinct speaking followed by a barely discernable “right, Daddy?”, There is simply no good or safe answer to that question. I can’t stress this enough.
I'm very impressed by all your stats. and would love to see how my state compares with the rest of the country. I actually can't remember ever seeing the SAT results broken down like that before. What will you do with your conclusions once you are finished? How have you been? Is everything going well? I'm sure Pio will be able to help you with your backup, wheels perhaps? He sure solved our Christmas tree problems.
BigK,
My BIL is a fireman and some of his friends went to Australia to help with the fires. They have some wild stories to tell about their time in Australia. All I'm told is "they're a hospitable lot" and I know the local watering hole was involved. My guess is they don't actually mean water!
Nams,
You are such a good mother and a lovely lady. I can't be vengeful either, no matter how hard I try. We have to get up each morning and look at ourselves in the mirror. I may not like the lines and wrinkles I see appearing but at least I can look myself in the eye. I'm sorry your H is so insensitive.
Steph,
I am so glad you are back in your home. I'll have to come and visit you again on your thread to find out what is happening with you. I know you are getting lots of good advice.
Luna,
I love that song too. Have you heard the old version by Nina Simone? I have both artists on my IPOD and love them equally. I'm so glad you are doing better and are back posting. You are amazing with your strength to maintain plan B.
Pio,
Hopefully you are sailing into smoother waters now. It gets pretty turbulent out there when the storms blow in. I cried when I read your post regarding waking your wife to apolgize. I am very proud of you, it takes a real man to say I am sorry. It would have meant so much to your wife.
Your Christmas tree post made me sorry I have live trees in pots, I would love to give that a try! Does it matter we have heating in our cement slab?
2Much,
So good to see you here. I think my IC would disagree with you that I have it all together!
I am sorry you have been having such a rough time. Anniversaries, birthdays etc. that make you recall the happy years really are he11 and tough to get through. Have you been deployed before? It's probably back on page 249 but have you ever tried finding anything on this thread? Not easy.
It sounds like you have much to do. Do you write lists? I live by lists. Write down what you have to achieve for moving and another one for staying and see which items coexist and achieve them first. Having a plan really does help with the mindset. It sounds to me like you are handling everything so well with the children, they are of course always our main concern and our source of love and affection.
I'm not sure how long you have been going through this but time really does make a huge difference.I know that is so frustrating to hear but it's true. I'm afraid that the fact that your WH will not discuss D and your future with you would make me crazy. I would find some way to pin him down and get some answers. Thiopental perhaps? Guess if we can't use it on terrorists we sure can't on WH's.- shame!
Is it better for you at all now that he is out of the house? I found my tension level dropped to zero when my WH left. The entire atmosphere in the home changed you could almost hear the house saying "phew" I hadn't realized how uptight we all were until he was gone. I think you are an incredibly strong lady, you have proven that already.
I would be interested to hear what BigK would recommend for you. Hopefully he will be along.
Now, I want to let you all know that I will be missing for a few days, not sure when I will be back yet. It's a business trip combined with pleasure.
I'll try to keep an eye on you all and will pray for peace and happiness for each of you.
Todd you are crazy and I love it since it made my day a bit brighter. I had the pleasure of getting a complete physical with all the labs etc so that I can determine my health state .....
Monday I had an MRI on my neck, a chiropractor appt, a psychiatrist appt, and a physical complete w/ EKG. My pharmacist did, however, get my prescriptions right. Picked up 4 - to the tune of $115.
Yesterday, my purse was stolen from my office or I left it where I ate lunch and it is gone. Along w/ my car keys, house keys, driver's license, credit cards, check card, insurance card, cell phone, cd of photographs, favorite watch, and 30" string or good pearls. Had to have locksmith unlock car, drill out ignition lock, make new key, then borrow neighbor's keys so I could get in my house. I missed hoop class and a Christmas dinner party. I was busy on the phone that day.
Today, I went to bank in person and took care of some things. Then I spent the rest of the morning cleaning house and dealing witn the locksmith again while he rekeyed all my deadbolts - and one key would not do them all. Had to have 2. Then I took son to orthodontist to get his braces on. Went to daughter's school to get her to pick up her retainers. Then I got my old retainer adjusted to try to nudge a tooth back where it should be.
You poor lady. I've had that happen too and it's a nightmare to get everything straightened out again. I would give them any money I had if they would only leave me everything else. Weeks later you'll remember something else you had in your purse.
I hope that you get good news from your MRI. Sorry you are having such a rough time.
I am doing this for my own edification. I had catalogued Cali's scores. Pasted below are CA, CT, MS AND AL.
CT CA AL MS INDIAN 976 1003 1063 - ASIAN 1109 1069 1178 1105 BLACK 846 867 927 905 HISPANIC 895 897 1072 1083 WHITE 1061 1085 1162 1165 OTHER 978 1031 983 1079 NR 1004 1059 972 1093
I'm not fond of SATs in general. I understand the need for proper & consistent ways of tracking learning, I don't think SATs are an accurate reflection of one's knowledge & ability.
I would advocate for a standardized portfolio approach. Students keep portfolios of their high school work. Two years of work or three I'm not sure, but the biggest concentration of work coming from their senior years. This portfolio would show a number of important abilities. Writing skills,understanding of math & science, critical thinking, creativity, etc...I suspect colleges would object to the amount of work involved in determining a potential student's abilities & likelihood for success in college, but I think portfolios can provide a more complete picture, gathered over time VS a one day glimpse, at a students potential & ability.
One thought I have about the SAT scores you've shown Todd is this: I'd venture a guess that the minorities taking the the SATs are more likely to be the kids who see college as a viable option for their future. This being a group of kids who are working hard in school, seeing the potential payoff of college for them & parents that support their efforts. Where as the white group would consist of more middle class kids with more educational opportunities, SAT taking being one.
SAT scores are merely a starting point in my quest to attempt to understand what is wrong with our nation's schools. While I cannot disagree with the central theme of your contention, the fact remains that the SAT appears to be reliable and is valid - that is, it measures what it purports to measure. Whether it is the right measure is an open question. My goal is to attempt to understand what is wrong with our schools and more importantly, what solutions make sense. It may be overly ambitious since I am not trained in the area of education.
As I have delved deeper into the data, my "eyeball" analysis says that there is a strong positive correlation between SAT scores and all the factors one would logically expect to shape the scores: family income, parent's educational level, school performance, etc. In this country, we tend to divide data by ethnicity, perhaps because it is an obvious difference. My guess is that score differences are primarily a function of family income and all the attributes which accompany it. I will need to dig deeper to uncover such differences, if, in fact, they do exist.
I thought I was having a challenging time! Good News is you tackled it like a pro and have new locks, new meds and hopefully a Christmas list with pearls, watch and cell phone on it! I'm betting you had a nice warm bubble bath and glass of something (wine, hot tea, hot chocolate, java) to comfort the stress from the day. If you didn't then don't worry, I did for you complete with some chocolate (remedy for anything).
Hang in there Cinders, you are made of tough stuff and made me smile ear to ear and LOL seeing I was in royal company!
I was out Christmas shopping today. It's nice to see people haven't turned nasty yet. Guess it's still early days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Not a whole lot new with me except a recommendation letter that hasn't reached the school I'm applying to yet. Now I've got to pick it up in person & express mail it. Little nuisance in the grand scheme of things.
Thank you, Beth, for your kind words. Enjoy your time away.
The boys & I will be getting our tree on Sat. First lunch out, then the tree. Or maybe the other way around. Depends on how quick they are in the morning. It'll be fun!
Well we went to the Christmas party last night. Poor woman. Planned this party for months and has it professionally catered, nicely decorated and then has the party outside in her garden on one of the two days a year it rains in Saudi. What are the odds? We got a little wet. Gemela's GB house gift was the talk of the event. Santa came and gave a present to each of the children. One girl commented that Santa was so smart because he seemed to know exactly what each one wanted. Everything was going fine until the host put on a Kenny G Christmas CD and then suddenly a big fight broke out. I am convinced there is something to this Kenny G theory of mine. He is the root cause of terrorism.
Did you hear about the party at the White House? It seems that Laura Bush wore a $8,500 Oscar De Larenta dress. So did two other womens. Ms. Bush went upstairs and changed. It had to be a long night for the other two womens.
Now, I am sure it is just me but maybe the ladies of TKO can comment. If I paid $8,500 for a dress, the nearest one geographicaly better be in at leazt Milan if not Thailand. To have three show up at the same party has got to be embarassing to Oscar. That's over $25,000 worth of dresses at the same party and that's only three womens.
Meanwhile, I don't think I can find a more expensive tux than an Oxxford. Stretching it, maybe - maybe - $3,000. And frankly, I don't give a hoot how many men wear the very same tux.
I haven't seen that story but I can attest that WW has been in a scaled-down version of that situation and we have gone home to change a $40 blouse before. At least Laura had her closet nearby. Were they all three wearing the same shoes by any chance? I am still amazed that WW and I can be at a party and talking and she suddenly says "can you believe those shoes she is wearing?". I hate to admit it but I rarely notice shoes. One day I was standing in the hallway outside our conference room and our secretary came up with some papers for the boss to sign. She is Saudi and is completely covered. I commented that I thought her shoes were beautiful. She gushed. Amazing.
Late in the morning, I started to move a stack of drawers which is on wheels. I heard a "ching" sound. Looked between the drawers and the cube wall. There were my keys which I thought were in my backpack/purse. That meant the pack must be nearby. And it was..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> .....in one of the locked drawers. I am going to be sure I get that necklace insured.
This morning the chiropractor called me personally. He said he had left 3 messages for me the day before. I knew this was not good. I saw him at 2 p.m. He was kind, he didn't mince too many words. He showed me the film from the MRI. When he touched one image, I saw it instantly. The report is ominous. severly deteriortated discs at C5-6 and C6-7. Moderately severe stenosis at C5 especially on left side. Moderately severe to severe stenosis on the right and severe stenosis and ossification on the left at C6. So, he is referring me to a neurosurgeon. One who has done surgery on him. Next Friday, I am scheduled for an epidural cervical injection. We will do all the reasonable things before I walk in the neurosurgeon's office. This is not good at all. Meanwhile, I got 14 trigger point injections today. It still hurts.
Being guys, we are obviously handicapped. I couldn't care less if a guy is dressed like me at a party. I think it is kinda cool. I have never been personally involved, whether directly or by extension, in the "can you believe she is wearing the same skirt I am?" derby, but I have witnessed it at a few parties. The amusing thing to me is that the womens get mad at each other like it was a deliberate act.
Ooops, I was mistaken. It was not two other womens who showed up with the same dress as Laura Bush - it was three other womens. Can you imagine? And to make it worse, the dress was ugly. This Oscar de la Renta dude has to be laughing all the way to the bank!
I admit I'm not really clear on the whole designer dress thing so excuse (again) my ignorance but aren't those things supposed to be like one-of-a-kind or something? Aren't ALL dresses, in a sense, designer dresses? Some just have more famous designers than others. I guess charging all that money to all those women for the exact same dress, that's how Oscar pay la renta.
I have a friend who married into big money. A few years ago, he and his wife joined his IL's to a company "convention" in Laguna Beach. My buddy, his wife and MIL went shopping. MIL bought a designer jacket, nothing fancy he assured me, that had a traffic jam on it. Hotsy totsy local designer. Price tag: $10,000. Reportedly, it was one of a kind.
Sorry for the t/j but something is really bothering me. I just watched Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer with G and the DDs. Do you remember Clarice - Rudolph's girlfriend? Remember how she always had on that polka dot bow on her hed? How did she make bow that without opposable thumbs?
Cinders, Congrats on the key discovery...sorry about the cervical disc discovery...do your homework and find out if the surgery is necessary/risk/benefit/improvement in quality of life etc. Sounds like you need to find out what caused all of the stenosis and ossification and prevent further occurrence as well. If there is risk of cord compression my guess is that surgery is necessary but get a second opinion and do some research first!
Pio and Todd, You got me, I am sucked into the dress dilemna. IMHO, for what it is worth (coming from a woman who happily wears combat boots but cleans up amazingly)...I think it is repulsive that anyone would pay that amount for a dress...I said it, it's out there now... Shall I start with, how many people could that feed, how many munitions, protective garments could be provided, how much good could it do in other avenues...I think not.
My philosophy on fashion is that the label is not important. The material and quality of the garment are important but the most important thing is it needs to make you look spectacular. Why pay anything for something that detracts from your appearance. If a garment does it's job it should enhance your best features and hide/minimize your challenge areas. Some designers pull this off and others are carried by their label. I'm sure in high political and economic circles it is all about who they are wearing but it just makes me sick to think of the wasted $. Lastly, if I were her I would return the dress and get my $ back b/c the sole benefit of having a designer garment is b/c it is supposed to be one of a kind...maybe the others were wearing lower priced designer dummies...if they were, at least they were more budget minded! Simple, timeless, quality pieces...if I had a boutique that is what I would sell to the real women of the world.
I had stated that federal spending on education has increased dramatically over the past few decades. At the linked website are the facts to back this assertion. The federal government now spends over $22,000 per household on education. That does not include state and local spending. States spend, on average, $8,022 per student. Assuming two students per household, this equates to $16,044 per household. This still does not include local spending on education, typically at the country or town level. Between federal and state spending, on average, we spend over $19,000 per student. The best private school in Atlanta charges tuition of $14,000. What's wrong with this picture? I also postulate that "help" from the federal government has been a causative factor in declining education quality.
BTW, linked below are images of the four womens who wore the identical $8,500 Oscar de la Renta dress. Is it just me or do they all look like a sack of potatoes in that dress?
Well the photo was a surprise. I admit I was expecting something else. This probably is a DJ but I have seen that sometimes WW has been attracted by price tag. She has shown me some clothes or shoes that really weren't all that nice or flattering but were expensive. She has asked my opinion with a sparkle in her eye. If I tell her it is ugly, she reprimands me, thinks about it a minute and then agrees - it really is ugly. I don't know if other woemn do that or not. There is a mentality that, if it is expensive, it must be good.
I just have one word for those four women - Sears.
No doubt Mr de la Renta's sales were in decline with all the new upcoming designers so he knew this would get him some free publicity. I think that changing outfit was the wrong thing to do. She should have embraced the moment, laughed a lot and just carried on IMO.
Sorry. No offense intended but...are you sure you're a woman???
My first boss was a smart guy. No taste in clothes whatsoever. His wife was an artist and she chose his clothes every day. Even so, it didn't help much because of what she had to work with. Once every three years he would empty his closet and go out shopping with his favorite two aunts - Polly and Esther. 100% JC Penney.
I was thinking that Laura reacted wrongly. With her Texas roots, I think it would have been great if she had gotten the other three ladies up and done a C&W line dance. Then I would have taken the dress back to Oscar and demanded my money back (after having accidentally spilled some wine on it of course).
TT, BTW, How is your R going? Personally I am having trouble reconnecting. Do you have any secrets?
I'm a little concerned, I turn my back and the men start talking fashion! I had to check into TKO twice to make sure I was on the right thread! I spent some time at Home Depot yesterday and purchased some great new power tools.
Actually I am on a buying trip at the moment and this subject of Laura and "the dress" is the talk of the town. Horrid dress anyway, she should return it. You are right Todd it didn't look good on any of the ladies.
Just wanted to check on everyone. Am on a borrowed computer so can't stay. Hi to everyone.
If you roasted chestnuts on an open fire do you think...
The issue is moot. First, all chestnuts now come with a surgeon general's warning label on the shell stating the dangers of open fire second-hand smoke. Second, the EPA has completely banned chestnut roasting as an environmental hazard. lastly, the increased risk of wildfires from open roasting chestnut fires due to drought in the southwest and west has made it a felony in 11 states (in additional to the federal crime).
Oh what was she thinking??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> That skirt added 10 lbs to her figure! And gray is definitely NOT her color. Now I know what Brad must have been thinking. But seriously, Angelina? A fashion faux pas just waiting to happen. Ans did you see Jen's shoes?!?!? Ross Peurot at his worst had better platforms! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Todd, you'll never find the Christmas spirit fussin over governmental spending & incompetence even if it is to better out educational system.
The amount of money our combined governments spend on one student could pay the tuition for almost three students at Atlanta's finest private school. It is alarming when you think about it.
Quote
If you roasted chestnuts on an open fire do you think the fire dept. would come a knockin?
No question. Two weeks ago, they installed a CCTV camera in my suite so they keep a close watch on me.
Two weeks ago, they installed a CCTV camera in my suite so they keep a close watch on me
I understand the govt is putting "border cams" on the internet now so everyone can help keep watch. Maybe you should go with a web cam and make a live feed to the WWW. At least you might make a profit.
I almost never watch Conan O'brien but I did the other day and he was talking about a website he had made up and some funny broadcasting law, etc. Anyway, they decided to really make the website he mentioned. It was a funny concept on the surface but really quite perverse. I did go look at it just to see if it could get past the proxy server. Unfortunately it did.
Pio, 17 years in Asia has screwed any fashion sense I had.
As for reconnecting, well I haven't, but I quite like having him here so I can keep an eye on him. I do think we will get there in our own muddled non-MB way, when he eventually gets off his [censored] and gets tested for STDs. It's not ideal, but I'm delighted to have my family intact for Xmas. Many many people have a worse deal than me.
However, my mood on this whole recovery issue changes according to my hormones, so the story might be different next week. Wish I could be more help. TT
I go hot and cold myself so you are not alone. Maybe I have hormones too. I don't consider myself anywhere near recovery yet. So far I just have all the holes in the dyke plugged but not much more.
Hormones reminded me of something.
Do you know the difference between a wife, a mistress and a prostitute? A prostitute says "I hope it was good for you", a mistress says "I hope it was as good for you as it was for me", and a wife says "Blue. I think we'll paint the ceiling blue".
I still get caught up in remorse. How could I want to be married to someone who has done this much damage to her husband and her children and isn't the least bit sorry for it? If she were the slightest bit sorry for what she has done, it would be a whole lot easier to want to be involved with her again. As it is at the moment, WW is not all that attractive an option. But we are trying. Even so, it is hard to reconnect.
OK, forget the chestnuts. Pio raises some sickeningly good points...for the...careful... among us.
Of course there is concern about the state of education in the U.S., Todd, I just thought you might want to relax a bit.
As for Laura's outfit. It looked too much like a business suit with less severe fabric than it did a holiday outfit. I do think she did the gracious thing by changing. The money spent? Ridiculous.
Short story is WH moved at my request 7 week ago. Calls kids twice/day, tries to have light superficial conversation with me. I have pretty much gone the gammit from being nice and cordial to telling him that I wanted nothing to do with him and did not want him back (that was about 1 wk ago). WH avoids any talk about us or future but is planning to move to a more permanant residence after the Holidays...has taken most of his belongings and will be taking some furniture with the next move.
Due to Holidays I agreed to some "family" activities to prevent ruining kids Christmas. WH has visited several times and requests I remain with he and kids. It is killing me and confusing the kids. Recently he started making comments about SF and dropped by to try and get some...I have consistently refused and told him it is a package deal with conditions and have sent him on his way. I told him I was glad that I had placed conditions and that it was pretty apparent his only interest was in the SF. He said not to think like that but that he didn't want to do anything until he was 100% doubt-free.
Very emotional night last night with WH crying when he departed. We spent the evening doing family Christmas tradition and DS was sad when time for WH to go home. I remained calm and unemotional and provided no input or comments to DS or WH display of emotion. He left and then came back 5 minutes after leaving to get one of kids to stay at his place.
I can't take it and don't want kids to get false sense of hope so since WH refused to engage in discussion or to set aside time to plan/strategize how to handle things I TM'd him that immediately post Holiday I will not participate in "family" activities and that we need to make a plan to provide kids stability, consistency in visits with a routine. I will institute a serious plan B.
He called asking if we were regressing as "friends" again. I told him we need to discuss without kids around. He said if we were ever going to get back together that he needed to spend time with me around and that if I wasn't going to be around now we should just forget trying. I asked when he ever mentioned us getting back together as an option etc. He ends conversation and says he'll talk to me later.
I emailed and explained he was not my friend and I would only consider rebuilding a friendship with him through marriage. I said I recognized the mutual attraction and desire for SF but that I wanted the whole package and would settle for nothing less. I told him his was no longer part of my family as long as we lived apart and that as long as we were separated I only wanted to exchange info by text or email.
Thoughts, comments. A few weeks back I told him I would handle the legal stuff after the Holidays...selective amnesia? He recently commented it was a shame we couldn't get along since everything else seemed so perfect...I about fell over but didn't comment. In the email I however stated I thought it was interesting that his perception of why we were separated was b/c we couldn't get along. Couldn't have anything to do with the year of infidelity...
My first thought is that you need to get a plan and stay with the plan. You have confused everyone including yourself. Most importantly, you are confusing the kids which is a very unfair.
WH says he wants what he wants until he is absolutely sure - about what? I don't get that part. He sounds like stph20's WH and all he wants is to cake-eat.
But let's forget about SF for the moment. The part that makes me the maddest is that he says he wants to be friends. If your best friend (or any friend) betrayed you, stabbed you in the back, remained unrepentant for doing it, etc. would they still be your friend? The word coming out of his mouth would offend me.
You are trying to be a family to not ruin the kids holidays but you are ruining them anyway. You are definitely giving them false hopes. If it were me, I would stop the "family" activities immediately. Let WH have his time and you have your time. Try to begin to develop boundaries for the kids and become consistent. Kids need rules.
People always told me that I had to judge WW by her actions and she judged me by mine. You are all over the map. If you had any remote hope of R, how are you helping WH toward that goal by your behavior? Also stop trying to help WH "see the light" and "understand" his behavior. Restrict yourself to telling him how hurt you are and how you feel about what has happened.
I know this is a very hard time for all of you. Unfortunately it is up to you to be the strong one for your family and your kids. I can't see how pretending to be a family for a month is good for anyone.
I do think she did the gracious thing by changing.
Or maybe she just didn't want to confuse George - or else have him say "gee Honey, that woman looks so much better in that dress than you do". You might tend to feel sorry for the other three women but I don't. Now the entire world knows how much they spent on those dresses and they didn't have to drop a single hint. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The part that makes me the maddest is that he says he wants to be friends. If your best friend (or any friend) betrayed you, stabbed you in the back, remained unrepentant for doing it, etc. would they still be your friend? The word coming out of his mouth would offend me.
Exactly...I told him this almost verbatim in past conversation.
Quote
You are trying to be a family to not ruin the kids holidays but you are ruining them anyway. You are definitely giving them false hopes
You are right...that is why I left town for Thanksgiving to make it easier on me so that I would not cave in and agree to "family" stuff.
Quote
Let WH have his time and you have your time. Try to begin to develop boundaries for the kids and become consistent. Kids need rules.
This is what I requested when he moved out but DD1 refused to do things unless I was a part of them...I should have acted like a parent and allowed her the choice of doing the activity with WH in my absence and once she missed out a few times maybe she would start doing things with him without me. He is just as bad though and I buckled and gave in out of lack of energy and sac. The mail message basically stated what you said above, that I wanted to establish some routine of time-share and consistent behavior on how they communicated, how they were picked up/dropped off etc so it would be easier for all of us.
Quote
You are all over the map
Yes I am and it is a horrific feeling. I need to regain control and keep moving in the plan D direction because logically based on past history in the long run it will be the best for all of us...a little piece of me still feels like somewhere in WH my H will appear and fight to stay...his behavior and conflicting comments are yet evidence to the contrary. Just hit me with a 2x4 now and get it over with...
Quote
I can't see how pretending to be a family for a month is good for anyone.
It isn't and that is what I was explaining to WH via email. No surprise I received a one liner saying he will do what he needs to for the kids and FU to me. Good thing I expected nothing less.
Quote
WH says he wants what he wants until he is absolutely sure - about what? I don't get that part. He sounds like stph20's WH and all he wants is to cake-eat.
More cake-eating...even when living separate...I will never look at cake the same way again
I think I am in the depression phase of this adventure and need a swift kick to move along...if only I could speed up Father Time...
I am depressed enough right now and I don't have nearly your problems. It is hard to recognize you are in depression. Usually you don't do it until it is too late.
Yes you are the parent. Don't forget that and don't be afraid to tell DD1 that if need be. Find something to focus on to help get you through the holidays. I'm so sorry for you. Lace those boots up tight, put on the grease paint and think mean. You are going to get through this.
Your WH will probably make you out to be the bad guy with the kids. But you are the only adult of this family and you need to act like it. It's not a popularity contest.
Don't take a negative view of all cake. You might develop a taste for beef cake in the future, for example. It's not fattening either!
Pio has done a great job of articulating your situation.
This is all manipulation on your WH's part. He knows where your soft spots are, your children, & he's using them to have things his way.
This really is no different than he has been doing except he's including you out of guilt. He wants to appear to the kids as an involved, caring father & family man. He's not that even if he wants to pretend to himself he is.
Your daughter is smart & she knows your soft spots too. She, understandably, wants her family together. She's doing her bit to make that happen, in her not fully understanding of the situation kid way.
Don't let your WWH manipulate you. Sounds like you have a plan in place, you just need to stick with it.
As Pio has pointed out, making nice for the holiday season, pretending all's happy & well in the family, will only cause confusion for your kids. You can't wish this man to man up & do the right thing. You've tried that & he's not bucked up.
One thing I may not be clear on is your idea of co-parenting. You have referred to your desire to co-parent in a negative way. Is your WWH's idea of co-parenting in a cooperative way to do things as a "family"? If so I understand your resistance.
When ex & I were in the process of discussing how to tell our boys we were separating, yes, we did say that first though ex had no intention of ever coming back. This was something else that made it harder on the boys, the false hope that offered. We talked with my IC about what would be the best possible situation for our boys in the future. He said cooperation at the least, but if we could manage it, bring together the two halves of the family for special events. Doing this without forcing it &only if we could truly be happy to spend these special times together would show the kids the love & devotion we have to them.
ex was all for it & I knew I would do whatever I could for my boys to feel secure with a D. VERY hard to do. Last Christmas I invited ex to come open gifts with the boys & stay for dinner if he wanted. I did not invite gf, just couldn't choke that down. Even though they won't admit to seeing each other during our marriage, I believe they were & don't feel she has a place in my home. So, there goes the concept of sharing special events with both halves of the family.
I do, however, try to be supportive of the relationship gf has with my boys. After all, the reality is gf lives with their father. All I can ask is that she be nice to my boys. She is & her family has included them fully into their lives.
I guess the bottom line for me is if they get more love in their lives rather than animosity & anger they will be better off.
Nams - I would like to say thank you for that post. I have been feeling a little funny about the Holidays and spending them together for our DD, but it is for her, so you have made me feel better about my decision to host Christmas..
One thing I may not be clear on is your idea of co-parenting. You have referred to your desire to co-parent in a negative way. Is your WWH's idea of co-parenting in a cooperative way to do things as a "family"? If so I understand your resistance
Nams, doing "family" things seems to be his answer to co-parenting. He refuses to discuss how to do this despite several requests on my part over the past 7 weeks. I gave explicit instruction on his departure that I only wanted to communicate via text, email to coordinate his time with kids. He just changed jobs 1 month ago so his schedule is "erratic and long hours". He was staying at an extended stay for 2 wk, then I have no idea for 2 weeks and now is at one of OW's family's condos until getting more permanent residence (apt) next month. I want set times for him to visit kids with him either coming here and me leaving during visit or him taking kids to his place. He has verbalized that once he moves he wants kids to spend night 1 night each w/e. He has made comments that he needs 3 BR apt so the kids can have a room etc. Aside from fleeting comments to that effect there has been no discussion, plan, strategy. My agreeing to have holiday time for all of us was basically to show kids we both still loved them and could be together for important events without fighting etc. WH attempts at SF and pushing buttons made this impossible for me and when I saw how disappointed DS was after our Christmas tradition it killed me and made me realize that the sooner I institute separate lives the easier it will be for all of us.
At least you and ex sat your kids down and explained what was happening and what to expect. This is all I asked of WH and he refuses to even discuss with me so that we can present plan to kids...that is obviously contributing to kids confusion. I try to reinforce what I can and provide stability, routine and fun at home to create a safe place for them...it is extremely draining and emotional for me at this point but I am holding together for kids. I hate this.
It looks like you will have to take the lead here 2much.
You need to know what direction you want your future to take & act accordingly, plan accordingly. This is not to say you know you're filing for D, just that for now you are in plan B with contact only about your kids. Your WWH is trying to work around your boundaries. Nothing new there except now it's the holiday season & your inclination is to make nice for everybody. WWH does not need to be included in this.
You sound like an organized person who wants your WWH to be the same. It looks like he's not capable of that so you need to spell it out, make the plans & arrangements & stick with that.
One of the hard parts is spelling these things out to your kids, but you MUST do that. They need to know their father will have them xyz, WITHOUT you,& you will be with them xyz, without their father.
It's very hard to sit down with your kids & discuss the whys & hows of the brake up of their family, but it is essential for them to know the details of how there lives will move forward.
For the first year of our brake up we had many teary & emotional conversations about our situation & I was honest with them about my part of things & referred them to their father for his part. My desire was to just hold them & tell them all would be fine, but I knew we weren't going to reconcile & I also knew ex would not talk with them like I would.
Regarding spending time with ex doing holiday family things: I explained to them I invited their father because we had done these things as a family for so long so it's hard to just stop. I wanted their experience to be what they were used to but I also told them that because of D things will change & we can only wait & see what that change will be. Always ensuring them both mom & dad love them & will always celebrate with them though the specifics of how would change in the future.
Last year was the first year things were obviously different for them. ex came, opened gifts with them, even stayed to spend a little time with my family, then left. This year he will have them Christmas Eve then bring them here Christmas day, so things are still evolving. The boys have been informed & so far, have not expressed any disappointment or longing for what was when we were together as a family.
It's very hard to sit down with your kids & discuss the whys & hows of the brake up of their family, but it is essential for them to know the details of how there lives will move forward
I answer questions honestly, I phrase things such that they will be able to discuss if they want. I say, "It really stinks that things aren't the way they used to be with dad and I living separate. It is ok to be sad or angry, do you want to talk about it"...usually I get feedback. When they ask and I don't know I either refer them to their father or tell them I don't know but that no matter what happens we will get through it. I never tell them that everything will be ok although it is very tempting but I know that it will never be the same for them regardless of the outcome.
We play "the feelings game", they each have 1:1 time with me daily where I put it out there if they want to talk about things. We eat dinner together and talk about our days. I have a white board for them to draw transient emotions; I have talked to their teachers and school counselor who are all supportive of this transition time and provide me with feedback. My oldest went to IC for 2 sessions but the IC felt I was doing everything that they would suggest so unless there was a crisis she did not need to return. We listen to the Amber Brown series on tape which is very good (Amber is in the middle of her parents divorce and remarriage and verbalizes feelings of having to choose parents, guilt about loving both, protectiveness for her mom etc)
Quote
You sound like an organized person who wants your WWH to be the same. It looks like he's not capable of that so you need to spell it out, make the plans & arrangements & stick with that
I am and it kills me that even now I have to parent the WH as well as the kids. When will he ever have to be responsible/accountable for anything? All the visiting is around his schedule and convenience. I did what I could to help him get out so that he would just be gone like a bad splinter. I thought once he was gone it would end and he would start taking the lead on some things...wrong. So, tell me, I have my kids call daily and sometimes in am/pm to say good morning and good night. Do I just let them talk to him when he calls them? Am I supposed to encourage them to converse, call, spend time with him? Is there some guide on what I am supposed to do? I don't want to discourage or prevent them from time with him but I feel it should be on his initiative not mine. Additionally, I keep him posted on all of the school events, what they are doing and activities etc. I am the one that gets that info and have always tracked all this stuff...do I keep providing the info or wait until he asks...I don't want the kids to suffer.
I think you should let the kids talk to WH whenever they want. When I went through this brief phase (I mention that because I was clearly not in your situation) I gave my DDs an easy method to communicate with WW. I encouraged them to. At first they wanted to call night and day. After a week, they didn't want to call at all. Just the reassurance of knowing they could was more important to them than the actual call. I found it very healthy to leave the house while they were talking. Sometimes I couldn't because of bad connections and I had to stay to redial. But when I could go outside and not listen to any of it, I was much more relaxed.
I appreciate that you feel you are doing the responsible thing by keeping him informed of school, etc. but stop. He is an adult (more or less). I suggest you remind the kids to mention school things to WH and leave it at that. Don't even ask them later if they remembered. Get WH out of your head. You need to let go. The more communication you have with him, the harder that is to do. But it is important for the kids that you develop this separation because it will help them see the situation and understand it better.
You have to be careful in that some things you think may be the right thing to do could actually be counter-productive and hurt the kids. No matter what you do, you can't fix this by yourself.
Thanks for the input. I am currently out...WH visiting kids, he came in I confirmed his departure time, kissed the kids and left. He was aggravated that I was leaving but did not cause a scene. My DD1 was pissed at me and wanted me to take her with me but I refused. My DS asked what I was doing and I just calmly stated I was giving them time alone to spend with their dad.
As far as providing school info/event info, I will take your advice...I know he will miss things and it hurts my heart for the kids. I had to remind him of all of their Bdays and tell him what time to turn up for party and buy all gifts. When my Bday came around there was no one to remind them so it came and went without any cards/cake or wishes...I know similiar things will happen without me basically handling everything and telling him repeatedly when to show up. He was out overnight on DD1 bday and she was bummed that he didn't call at midnight to wish her happy bday etc. I will let him figure it out with them providing info. I know he will say I am setting him up to fail and doing it purposefully but at least I know what to expect.
He wants me to do the Christmas shopping (which I did last year but years prior we both did a little bit individually)and put from Mom and Dad on the gifts...how do you think I should handle this since I think he will come Christmas morning to watch them open gifts. After this year it will be totally different b/c we will be geographically separated in addition to maritally.
I remember when you were dealing with the DDs talking to G by phone and all the trouble with connections you had. My kids don't ask to call WH...if it were up to them I'm not sure they would initiate more than 2 times/week except for DS who has trouble expressing self and needs prompting...he is the one who misses WH most as far as I can see.
Quote
You have to be careful in that some things you think may be the right thing to do could actually be counter-productive and hurt the kids
Anything in specific? Don't hold back, I seriously want your opinion.
I come back in a while when I have a few more minutes. Right now I am in the middle of my morning workout/rush to get ready to go to work so don't have many extra minutes.
One thing I would do is do the Christmas shopping myself, send a bill for 50% to WH and put a card on gifts from Mom and Dad and leave it at that. This is one you really need to detach from quickly because it will make you a wreck if you don't. Of course WH will be just as surprised as kids when they open the presents but it will make a great Kodak moment.
[In case you hadn't noticed, I think it is helpful to find/keep your sense of humor through all this. I found that if I didn't laugh, I would cry. Laughing is better.]
Life has changed/is changing for all of you. Don't discount how important Christmas has been for you. We all love to see our kids happy and joyful and even more so at Christmas. That will still happen for them if you and WH don't get in the way. Don't fret so much about trying to protect them from every little hurt. Just be ready with the Unguatine when they do get hurt. I have a hip holster for the stuff.
And about WH forgetting everything like Bdays, etc. - that is a "guy thing". I know some great software for PDA's that solves a lot of this problem. FWIW, I forget my OWN Bday.
I know he will say I am setting him up to fail and doing it purposefully ...
Every once in a while there is something in a post that jumps out at me. I mull it, twist it, turn it and try to absorb it. This is one. Now before I get started, let me be the first to say that I realize we are getting into that whole pot/kettle realm again so just save your breath.
I had written a couple of things in my previous post that I deleted because I thought they were harsh. Oh well, get ready for a whacking...
That statement really bothers me and I will try to explain why. Let's say that your WH moves out, his boss doesn't know that and he calls your house telling you that WH needs to be Poughkeepsie on Thursday or he will be fired and you "accidentally" forget to pass on the message. That fully qualifies as setting WH up for failure. Not reminding him of his childrens' Bdays or not goading him to call does not qualify. WH is not your child. He is an adult. You should never have had to remind him of birthdays. If he forgot, he should have dealt with it but you have always "protected" him. This child is about to leave the nest and you have to let go. He doesn't need you to sew his name in his underwear. If he gets it confused, that's his problem.
You are not responsibile for WH's actions therefore you cannot be in a position to set him up for failure. If he forgets a birthday and DD or DS get upset by that, hopefully they will relate that, resolve it and, if it really bothers WH, he can decide what to do about it next time. Don't try to mother WH. Even if he comes back and you two can recover the M, you need to stop doing these things. He is an adult. He is responsible for his own actions and the consequences of those actions. He has never learned to do any differently till now because he hasn't needed to.
WH sounds a bit immature in some respects. Let him grow up. He doesn't need a mother. To be honest, the fact that he has always been protected and never had to take much responsibility may be one factor that is hindering him now. Obviously I can't know that but I believe that has been the case with gemela. I always tried my best to protect her and maybe I even tried to protect her from herself. I was wrong. I don't do that any more. I support her and help her but she is the captain of her ship. If she chooses to fail, I will by all means let her. I have two DDs that are a 24/7 job. I don't want the third any more.
Stop worrying about what WH is going to do or not do. Let him go do it. You focus on you and your children. You don't owe them any apologies or explanations for WH's actions. Sometimes "I don't know" is a perfectly good answer.
Okay vent done. I'm sorry if that seems harsh. I am only trying to help and that is how I feel about your recent posts. Make this a great Christmas for you AND the kids. WH is on his own. He can be happy if he chooses to be.
Oops! Just got a panicked call from WW. Another batch of baby hamsters! So far two have popped out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Well I had the scissors clean and sharp, had the hamster out and under the light. I felt I should use anesthetic so I decided to use some ether. After I woke up, the hamster had gotten away. This was a different hamster and, because it exhibits clear anti-social behavior, it has been in the death row bucket all by itself for weeks. I have no explanation for the pregnancy. How can the female get pregnant with no male around? This is almost (but not quite) unprecedented. Could it be Christmas?
No I have not told WW. For reasons already explained. I'm fresh out of horses but I think I have a dead mule you could whack on if you like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well I have a new method for naming baby hamsters. The old way with pepito, chuchito, etc. was too stressful. Now I just name them all "tongue". I have tongue1, tongue2, etc. It is just easier to call them tongue and, besides, the way WW treats them, sooner or later the cat is going to get them anyway.
Pio, I think you could have sent the unedited version...I don't think you are harsh; just honest and that is what I want.
You are correct on all points. I told kids today that if they want to speak to or text WH that his # is posted on refrigerator with his pic and they could feel free to call/text whenever they wanted to...
Quote
Don't try to mother WH. Even if he comes back and you two can recover the M, you need to stop doing these things. He is an adult. He is responsible for his own actions and the consequences of those actions. He has never learned to do any differently till now because he hasn't needed to.
I was guilty of this entire M; one of his biggest complaints; guess I should have let natural consequences happen and he may have learned.
Don't think I will be resolving that in M but through D. I will try not repeat if there is another M at some point.
I am so aggravated and need to detach now. Neighbor just called to report WH siting with an OW at shopping plaza with OW ducking but spotted before she could hide. Although I don't ask questions or think about WH actions while separated between kids and neighbors it is unavoidable. I guess I need to tell them not to provide any unasked for info if I am seriously going to detach and D.
Thanks for the honest feedback. If there is more bring it on.
When mom and pop were taken in their prime by the neighborhood cat, I had hoped the problem was solved. Guess not. Now, with the new babies, the cat is back and he brought a friend. I'm sure he is thinking "mmmmmm! hors d'oeuvres!!!"
I am going to rename this "Pio's hamster-eating snake free thread".I really want to hear advice from people on here on how to deal with my excess hamsters. I think there are a lot of ideas that I can really benefit from. The trouble is, the really useful ideas to me, are getting drowned out in the flood of people who keep saying nothing much more than, "Snakes! You need to feed your hamsters to the snakes now!." Or an only slightly different, "you need to set a date for snake-feeding now!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
My 8 month old kitten would eat them in short order. Put one in the bath tub with the cat and see how long it takes. I've bought small mice (cute, they were) for my kitten. The mice were being sold at the pet store as snake food. Cats like them too. Now I feed him snacks of frozen/defrosted mice which I buy in bulk from rodentpro. Definitely his favorite food.
Rodentpro?Okay I am totally depressed right now. It really gets me down that I go to school, I slave and toil, I suffer the aggravation of working for idiot bosses to try to provide for my family and now I find this? Someone making millions fed-exing frozen mice? Why couldn't I have thought outside the box? How do people even come up with these ideas? Probably some kid cleaning out the garage, moving boxes, finding dead mice and thinking "Eureka!". I feel somehow diminished.:'(
I wanted to get a pair of mice and breed our own, then humanely kill the offspring, but alas, my husband said, "no". He was afraid they'd get loose. It sure would have been cheaper.
When our kids were young we had our share of gerbils, hampsters, guinea pigs, and rabbits.
We also had hampsters that had babies. A couple of times the hampsters would get loose and be difficult to find and they'd cause damage...once one got ino a new sofabed mattress. I had to lure him out then sew up the big hole it had made.
Once one got under the couch. My husband was holding up the couch and thought they had it...dropped it down and killed the hampster under the leg of the couch.
Once my husband disected a dead gerbil with our sons.
So rodentpro may have the key. My problem is not in manufacturing but in distribution. My costs would be quite high compared to rodentpro's due to location. I doubt many Saudi's would actually pay money for dead hamsters so I need to go global. I know there is a law against transporting live animals into the USA but what about dead animals? What if the hamsters are breathing but have no brain function? How can we decide when a hamster is really dead or not? I'm not sure it is illegal to transport dead animals into the USA but, just to be safe, I think I'll hire third country nationals to "conceal" the dead hamsters in their bodies to sneak them past customs. Of course, to get my shipping costs down, I would need to hire really large TCN's. Any ideas on which state is the best to incorporate in? I seem to remember that Delaware used to be popular. But wait...I need a cathcy name! I need a URL! Any ideas?
Are there any USDA regulations for dead hamsters? I guess I would need to keep a USDA inspector here. I could convert the office to a bedroom I suppose...
Marketing...hmmm...maybe I could get a show on cable. A cooking show! I get a chef with personality to show different ways to prepare hamster. Hamster hocks and beans, baked hamster with honey glaze, deviled hamster...
How would you have humanely killed the offspring? And for the record, shouldn't it be micely killed the offspring?
As for the service which freezes the mice, it would seem more micely to let the snake do his thang than to put them in a freezer. Poor mice probably scratched at the freezer door for a long time before surrendering to the cold air.
Since you seem to be lurking, I have a question. I was watching a James Bond DVD this AM and I saw something that made me curious. I know you are good with physics and math so maybe you can help.
Let's say you have a 0.357 hollow point bullet that weighs 158 grains. You fire that bullet at a man standing 20 feet away (but ignore windage losses anyway). For the sake of simplicity (and although erroneous), let's assume there is no exit wound so that all momentum is transferred to the man who happens to weigh 180 lbs. When the man is hit by the bullet, he gets thrown back 23 feet in the air before landing. At what muzzle velocity would that bullet have to have been fired? I have tried to do the calculation but don't get the same answer twice. Is it 2.7 times the speed of light or 34.3 times the speed of light?
I thought I had reached the peak of depression but after having read all of the surpless hamster offspring ideas have concluded that I was wrong!
Pio, you have created a breeding circle that can only be broken by removing all hamsters from your home environment. You need to stage a mass exodus for benefit of DD's or explain the harsh reality...you can tell them about Santa, the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny at the same time! Which reminds me of when DD1 demanded to know the truth about Santa 2 yr ago and WH broke down and gave her the facts...when she broke down in tears and pleaded that she didn't want to know and wanted to be a kid, WH with quick thinking and manipulative savvy turned around and shouted..."you've been punked" and then reassured her that Santa was still real and so was Tooth Fairy. She discovered last year the truth and this year sat with me while I ordered her gifts and she picked them out. She was excited today when UPS dropped off boxes and asked how we managed to get all the gifts under the tree by morning. Sad but she is growing up in more ways than one!
Back to the hamsters...American Girl dolls are very popular...perhaps you can farm them out for Hamster fur throws or winter coats for the dolls??? You could start a hamster research lab at the local elementary school. You could have a scout project that included hamsters...you could give them as Christmas gifts to people that annoy you...make hamster village and display with Christmas village at local mall and then run fast the opposite direction...
Funny you mention the village. WW went down to a local tailor ahd had Santa and elf suits made to order for the little guys. Now they are scurrying about around the gingerbread house. She superglued small twigs to some of the babies's heads and tied them up to the miniature sleigh. They are so cute. Feel sorry for the one who got his nose painted red though.
This is just freaky. I read in a post just yesterday that all BS's are looking for the magic bullet - and now apparently you have found one! Coincidence? I don't think so.
I don't have much more to say about the mothering. For me to do that gets into a whole new realm that is irrelevant. You recognize that this is something you will work on in the future. From my perspective, as John Q Husband, I think it will be a good change for you. Whether that contributed to anything is immaterial. There was never nor ever will be an excuse for what WH has done/is doing. His immaturity certainly contributes. I just recommend you stop worrying about him. You are the only one who is affected and it is negatively.
As far as hearing from the neighbors, I can't imagine that. I consider myself fortunate in that I was able to get OM run out of the country. I'm not sure how I would have dealt with things if he had still been here. You are much stronger than me.
I think you should start posting about you and the kids holiday experiences. Give yourself something good to think about for a little while.
I clearly stated that this is a hamster-eating snake free thread. I hope that the few people who have taken the time to post to me something other than "GET A SNAKE NOW!" will do me the kindness of resuming our discussion in this thread, hopefully uninterrupted.
Pepper got "cute", and gave a list of potential hamster eliminators. although kinda obnoxious, with separate posts.
I guess I picked a bad time in my business to join MB.
We are working 16-18 hour days at the moment and seven days a week. I have wonderful staff and managers whom took over last year when I was ill and virtually made me redundant. I am determined to pull my weight this year.
2Much, my heart goes out to you. I wish you strength and peace and I pray that the season will work it's magic for you.
I don't know when I will have the time or engergy to post again so I will wish you all a wonderful Christmas.
Back to the bullet. I have another related question. Assuming that momentum is conserved, the 158 grain bullet initially at rest is fired and achieves some velocity multiple of light (M x V). The bullet eventually comes to rest within the 180 lb man's chest after having flown him 20 feet through the air at a velocity predicted by the momentum transfer from the bullet. IOW, (180 lbs + 158 gr) x V2 = 158 gr x 37 times the speed of light.
Since for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, what happened to the guy who fired the gun? (assuming he also weighs 180 lbs) I'm not sure there are any winners here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Oh...those poor, poor hamsters...in the freezer, their nails worn down to bloody stumps trying to fight their way out...Todd, you're a sweet sympathetic man.
Oh...those poor, poor hamsters...in the freezer, their nails worn down to bloody stumps trying to fight their way out...Todd, you're a sweet sympathetic man.
Hmmm.....Nams, why do I think you are being facetious?
What made me think about it is that there is a local case now in which two brothers, age 17 and 18 are charged with placing a puppy in a microwave. They first perfomed some other horrendous acts. Hmm...Pio just thought of a use for those hollow points.
If a search is done one can find many websites that tell how to do it...one from a Stanford Univ. Lab.
If I think to much about it or look at the poor mouse and think of it as a pet...it wouldn't work. Afterall, they can be rather cute.
I read a post on a forum where a guy asked if he was awful (or if it would be legal) to feeding kitten to his snake...like when people have free kitten adds... I would think that wrong. But then if I thought too much about lots of this stuff I'd probably become a vegetarian again. Poor cute animals and all. I accept that I am not interested or will in butchering my own animals for my food...someone else can do it. (Unless of course I am starving alone on some island...I imagine in that case I would be able to do it)
Pio:
If there are pet stores near you maybe they would take the baby hampsters off your hands....or the girls can give one to each of their hamsterless friends as gifts.
You are just totally missing the boat here. I don't need to euthanize the hamsters - they are already young enough as it is. Maybe when they get older I can think about euthanizing them. What do you suggest? Tummy tucks? Facial peals? I'm not sure what an old hamster looks like to tell the difference. You must take me for stupid or something...euthanize...ha!
The linked article is rather perplexing. The author claims that some vets don't favor CO2 euthanasia and boasts that the AVMA does not share this concern. Quote from article below:
Quote
Some vets are concerned that CO2 euthanasia is ineffective in causing death and that some additional procedure is required to be sure death has occurred. This is an odd concern, at least with rodents, because respiration during the anesthesia phase is quite obvious as is the cessation of all respiration shortly after the high concentration CO2 is introduced. Neither mice nor men can stop breathing for 10 minutes and then revive (except in cases of hypothermia or animals that have evolved extraordinary breath holding abilities). If you have any concerns, wait 30 minutes or longer. The AVMA doesn't seem to have this concern.
Elsewhere, the author mentions that the AVMA says the following:
Quote
Because the AVMA believes that the flow of CO2 can be regulated adequately only by using compressed CO2, only the use of CO2 cylinders is approved. The following method, being adapted for home use, does not require the use of compressed gas cylinders. The AVMA Panel on Euthanasia has not been asked to approve the following method, and no approval is implied. The author is satisfied that the method is sound and readers should judge for themselves.
So, the author uses the AVMA to support one approach and uses it to refute another. I would consider this spproach to be dangerous and reckless. If one cannot go to the trouble of buying CO2, by all means, take the animal to a vet.
Don't worry. I may have considered this as an option but my husband is vehemently opposed to my raising mice...definitely not a POJA. So, I won't be doing it.
Merit? With all due respect, his approach rivals Looney Tunes. His selective use of "logic" and supporting data is laughable.
Here is one of the first statements I encountered at the Stanford site:
Quote
CO2 must come from a controlled source (i.e. compressed gas cylinder).
The reason for the controlled source is because it is the only method by which one can precisely deliver the proper amount of CO2. If one delivers too much CO2 too quickly, the animal suffers.
Just thought I'd pop in to tell you that I am still alive... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You will notice from my signature line that my boys are now both one year...older..
so...for the past week have been busy planning 2 parties...Friday night for my 'ado'...then a 24-hr stint for a bunch of 11-yr olds...
uhmmm...I forget....at what age does the voice-change happen???....anyways...it's not at 11 that's for sure! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
....was a little worried...started my week by being sick...but it looks like it was a 48-hr bug.....and managed to do my 'robot' thing.... grocery shopping.... cooking... serving... washing dishes (don't have a dishwasher!)...
...and am a very proud mama...thoroughly enjoyed watching my boys 'enjoying' themselves with friends... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Gosh I love my boys to death!
...will try and catch up to see what you're all up to!
Two of mine made it to very old age. They shrivel up, get lots of white hairs, often they get growths and move slowly. I think you would recognise an old hamster so don't worry. And even old hamsters can reproduce so beware the doddering old boy who looks incapable - he ain't!
How about buying a bunch of little cages with tubes that do not connect (so they can see each other in passing....maybe some exercise wheels and make a hamster condo...make sure you keep them all separate. Then just keep them all into their old age.
started my week by being sick...but it looks like it was a 48-hr bug
Luna,
When I was a kid, all we had were 24 hour bugs...inflation...
TT,
Well my hamsters do have grey hairs...OTOH I think aging is part of a hamster's life and they shouldn't be so worried about appearance. Okay so after breastfeeding a dozen litters of....what are baby hamsters called?...MAYBE we might think about a little lift for her. I think it would be six little lifts though. It might make her feel better about herself. Hey - maybe that is why she turned mean! I still think it's PPD.
Since this is an infidelity forum, do you think hamsters cheat or are they monohamist?
Well DD2 has a pillow with a hole in it and these little styrofoam balls are all over the place. They would be about the right size. So now I am torn between mastopexy (six of them) and augmentation. No. What am I thinking? No way I want to make her MORE attractive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Now we're back to square one. I KEEP PASSING OUT FROM THE ETHER!!! The method doesn't work.
Well, but all means, put the knife down before you pass out. You may want more kids one day.
As for the gas masks, I have the perfect solution set: what rodent does every other rodent look up to? Mickey Mouse. At the link is a MM gas mask. Let them pretend to be their idol their last few moments on Earth. Or is it The Earth?
I'd read in another thread plan A succeeds 15% of the time. I don't know if this is correct & would be interested to know what you've discovered.
Hi Nams. I've heard Harley says 15% for Plan A. I don't have any evidence to the contrary.
Certainly after MrsK left me for OM, I did an unknowing Plan A to attract her back. But really it was exposure that killed the affair and the hand of God that brought her back. She was only gone from home for 2 weeks. Very short Plan A. I would not think it was very good - I was a little needy and desperate at first but then when i made plans to move on without her I guess I was more attractive. Our Kids were also a factor - even in her fog she saw that pain they were in and cared enough about them to end it.
I doubt you will find any good statistics on Plan A functionality. It is hard enough to get statistics on M's that survive. Also, not everyone follows the Harley plan. In addition, think of how many affairs that are NEVER discovered yet the family stays together. Even so, it is not hard to believe that such a small percentage survive with Plan A alone. In fact, I will be so bold as to conjecture that an M that survives on Plan A alone has much more to do with the WS than the BS.I'll try to give my explanation why I believe that.
Someone who is in an A is in a fog. But how did they BEGIN the A? The began it not by falling out of love with BS but by losing respect for BS or else learned that the BS didn't just NOT meet their EN's but were actually counter to it. Okay admittedly there are also the serial cheaters who are just looking for the next conquest. I'm not talking about them. So something has gone terribly wrong in the M. WS finds someone else. Now they are addicted (or fogged). No matter what the BS does, it will never match up to the OP. The OP has become perfection in the eyes of the WS. The OP simply is the answer to all life's problems. Okay now BS does a Plan A. Does WS magically fall back in love with BS? Does WS despise OP? No. Something brings the WS back to the M and I don't believe it is the BS. I think it is more something like a moral compass. Because you are asking the WS to redirect their course even though they are so strongly pulled in the direction of the OP. To return to the BS is the ultimate sacrifice. Even in spite of the fog, I believe that some WS doubt the sanity of what they are doing. They may not openly express it but something inside them tells them that something is amiss. They are suddenly afraid to leave the BS without really knowing why. Then NC gets established and eventually they return fully to the M (ideal case).
It is far easier to break the A in Plan B because then you remove the fantasy element from the A. Now WS has to face cold reality and sees OP for what they really are. In some cases, I'm sure the OP really does turn out to be a more attractive option than BS and the A thrives. But that is the exception rather than the rule. Even though WS thinks they have left BS for their soulmate, the reality is that they left BS for the first thing that smiled at them.
So recovering the M from Plan B may still be affected by the moral compass (as well as the nature of the BS). The WS may not love BS but does now detest OP and wants to make amends and try to restore some sanity to their life. So BS (if the door is still open) offers that opportunity.
This is all hypothesis on my part but I think it would be interesting to correlate recovered M's from Plan A only with social and/or religious background. I tend to believe it takes a very specific type of individual to return to the M in Plan A alone.
I'm not sure if you are responding to the post or the email. I don't disagree with thriving vs. surviving but I think one does come before the other. I'm still trying to survive. I think I'll have to wait a bit for thrive.
Pio, you have an interesting view & I agree with you. It was me not stph who asked about the success of plan A & plan B.
I'm going to phrase this differently but I think were close in what we see.
Plan A is part of a formula that offers the WS a look at life with a BS spouse in the best possible light. Plan B offers the BS respite from the hurt caused by the WS & a possible way to save what love for the WS they may have left.
The theory is because two people were once in love enough to get married, they can get there again by meeting each other's primary needs.
What I think you've said, Pio, that makes this more real life & less theory is that WSs need to make the choice to re-engage in the marriage & their choice is largely guided by their moral compass. The BS may have set a nice stage & shown the WS how they can improve the marriage & meet the WS's needs better, but ultimately, the BS decides based on many factors, morals being a strong one.
I've always viewed Harley's strategies as the best possible out there. I've seen other strategies that have merit & do have some similarities to Harley's but his take you through all the stages.
What can't be determined is the unpredictability with which humans makes choices. What inner voice are they listening to? What has the most appeal? And why?
My curiosity got me wondering about the success rates of marriages after infidelity whether it be EA or PA. I don't know if I'd feel encouraged or let down to know what we really can't & that is the real numbers of thriving marriages after infidelity.
I think both Harley and Pittman concur in that there are no good statistics. WS has to make a choice except that they have already made it. They have already checked out of the marriage and are on to greener pastures. I don't think any WS will look at a great Plan A of a BS and say "gee, I was totally wrong - look at what I am missing". I think Plan A is the BS's attempt to let the WS leave with the best possible impression of BS as they go to Plan B. Some don't make it that far.
But I look back at gemela's OM. I see him for what he is (basically a loser - a nothing) but she viewed him as her Prince Charming and, in her mind, I was the loser. Yet she stayed. She did not stay because I presented a better alternative based on her mindset at the time. She stayed for the kids but I also think she stayed because she knew it was "right".
One thing I have remembered is shortly after the "I love you but am not in love with you" talk and before Dday, gemela came home one day after talking to a friend and told me that she wanted to try to work on the M. This was before Dday. Unfortunately after she came to that conclusion, OM started pulling every string he could find to rope her in. Then we had Dday and the rest is history (a work in progress). So gemela, as in love with OM as she was, had something guiding her back to the M. I think now if she had to choose between me and OM, her decision would be much different than it would have been when she was still in the fog. Doesn't really matter though.
I also think our brief Plan B was good for both of us. I proved to myself that I could do okay without her. The DDs did survive. She got to see that life with her family back in Mexico was not all sunshine and roses either.
I guess my point is that I don't think that doing a so-so Plan A as compared to a great Plan A makes a gnat's eyelash worth of difference. If the WS is going to stay based on Plan A alone, I think it is more their personal choice than the influence of the BS. JMO (sorry BigK - JMVHO).
When I was a kid, all we had were 24 hour bugs...inflation...
...uhmmm....well..then, Pio, maybe...I had two 24-hr bugs...one after the other <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.... and I see your hamsters are keeping you busy!
Quote
So glad to see you back luna!!
Hi stph20....glad TO BE back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...for the rest...sorry...I know a 'hopeless' case when I see one...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
...and I see that Todd is no help.....even though he's supposed to REPRESENT the hamsters???!!!! ....ooups! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />....I FORGOT...Todd has memory problems...LOL!
Quote
...that WSs need to make the choice to re-engage in the marriage & their choice is largely guided by their moral compass.
Hi Nams. I also think that some WS's may HAVE the moral compass telling them to do one thing, but refuse to listen to it because of the EFFORT it will require (N\C with OP among other things!)...and choose what they THINK is the 'path with the least resistance' by choosing OP...but in these case, I think the WS in reality is choosing perpetual internal conflict and therefore a 'longer more arduous' path to inner peace which may never be attained, which for me is no way to live...... unless, for starters, WS one day faces up to the destructive impact of choices and starts to make amends!
Sorry Todd....just wanted to see if you were paying attention. OF COURSE you would win, no doubt about it!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't throw kryponite rocks at Superman. I will be darned if I am going to let you cast dispersions at Superman.
As for Batman, he has zero superpowers. I mean, he needs a plane, car and a helicopter just to get around. As for Spiderman, okay I cannot spin webs, but then, I don't need to.
You don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask off the ole Lone Ranger and you don't mess around with Todd...
Quote
As for Batman, he has zero superpowers. I mean, he needs a plane, car and a helicopter just to get around. As for Spiderman, okay I cannot spin webs, but then, I don't need to.
So...you can fly....what else have you got for me? That's not going to cut it!
Okay, TKO brothers and sisters, I need help. I apologize in advance because this post is about infidelity. I personally apologize to Pio for bringing the thread down and getting off topic.
It has been a year since I confronted my STBXW about her romantic LTA. Eleven months since she confessed. Nine months since I moved out. I am doing fine. I have detached from STBXW. I don't think about her and OM; I could care less. However, I just learned that I still have triggers. My triggers, ironically, are other WW who have "entitlementitis". I just read a few posts on the other site in which WW laid out the "reasons" why they cheated.
For example, one said that she had three kids and a H who didn't like to do anything. OM was a chum from high school and they "found" each other on MySpace. So, she few out of town to join him for 2 days, her BH discovered and she expressed her remorse by flying to meet OM for four days. Oh, OM was fun don't you know? He took her to the state fair, a concert and out to dine in a fine restuarant. She didn't do it for the SF. Oh, the SF was wonderful of course, but OM is a player and she would never leave her family for him. Invariably, when a WS posts the "reasons" for their A, many BS will join in and agree. "I ran my husband away and into the waiting arms of OW".
So, here is my question: are there any BS reading this who feel responsible for the A? Please do not say that you contributed to the problems which made the A possible. If you do, I will scream. An A is a choice: a poor one. Somebody help me out. Calm me down. Tell me what you think. I am absolutely livid.
So...you can fly....what else have you got for me? That's not going to cut it!
Well, I will articulate my case. I am faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. I can leap tall buildings in a single bound. I have x-ray vision and can see through "things". I have fire and heat breath. I also have ice breath. I can breathe in outer space or underwater with my equipment. I have super hearing. I can run faster than the Flash. And most remarkably, I can fly around the Earth at rapid speed and set the entire world back in time.
So, here is my question: are there any BS reading this who feel responsible for the A? Please do not say that you contributed to the problems which made the A possible. If you do, I will scream. An A is a choice: a poor one. Somebody help me out. Calm me down. Tell me what you think. I am absolutely livid.
Calm down Todd. As BS's the A's that our WS's CHOSE to engage in IS NOT OUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!
There are problems in the marriage (don't scream) that makes the WS "unhappy" and he/she chose the wimpy (I could/should use another word here, but I'll be nice) way out.
My WH said he was unhappy in our M. Fine. Then talk to me about it and let's work on it together. He didn't do that. He's a pansy. But he cut me out of that part of his life (by not communicating with me). How am I to be responsible for that? I'm not, IMHO. I couldn't read his mind and make him communicate with me any more than I could keep his pants on him. That's HIS problem to deal with now (why he did it). It's OUR problem to solve the problems that we had before.
And, Todd, you aren't responsible for your STBXW's actions either. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT, in any way, shape or form. You did not do this. You are the admirable one in fighting for your marriage, you did not contribute to her A.
Did I answer your question, or was I all over the board?
So...you can fly....what else have you got for me? That's not going to cut it!
Well, I will articulate my case. I am faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. I can leap tall buildings in a single bound. I have x-ray vision and can see through "things". I have fire and heat breath. I also have ice breath. I can breathe in outer space or underwater with my equipment. I have super hearing. I can run faster than the Flash. And most remarkably, I can fly around the Earth at rapid speed and set the entire world back in time.
There.
OK, OK, I surrender! You win. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I think whether the BS feels responsible or not is, in many cases, time-dependent. Dday and its fallout is a huge blow to the self-esteem of many BS. We are depressed. The WS blames us and we have little defense. We accept their rewritten history because our worlds are crumbling around us and this person we adore and respect and hold on a pedestal has done something that they should be incapable of. It is easy to blame ourselves because we don't want to blame WS. But as time passes, we begin to realize who WS really is, how weak they are, how selfish and immature they behave. We re-examine ourselves, we regain our confidence little by little and we begin to see what is really happening.
So in my case, if I see a BS right after Dday who blames themself, I take it with a grain of salt. If I see a BS who does so a year or two after Dday, I have little patience for that. If the WS was truly that unhappy, there are options: counseling and divorce. Affairs have never been nor will be a valid choice.
Cinderella and Snow White? A cat fight... Ooooh...I need a cold shower.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for your response. I do know full well that my STBXW's affair is not my fault. I am just sick and tired of the industry which perpetuates the myth. To my knowledge, Pittman is the only writer who pins full responsibility and accountability on the WS. Many even take the side of the WS: no wonder the WS had an affair, that kind of delusional thinking.
Pio gets mad when I post Pittman quotes and being that this is his thread, I will respect his emotional response. hehehe.
I guess I am simply saturated with our pop culture and its chuckling about cheating.
I wonder if there is an island for sale somewhere. I will start a new civilization in which cheating is actually looked down on.
Are you screaming at me or in general??? I'm a little confused.
I don't know anything about this Pittman dude, but I totally agree with him in putting all blame on the WS for the A. WS's always have a choice...to cheat or not to cheat.
If you create an anti-cheating island...I wanna come too!
I do not disagree with Pittman and you full well know that. I simply believe there is a time and place for everything. I have said it before but will say it again: Harley is the ER doctor trying the save the M - Pittman is the doctor doing the autopsy to see why the M died. They are both working on the same thing. Harley isn't too worried about why it died because two more critical cases just busted into the ER and he is busy. Two sides of the same coin. I don't believe Harley blames the BS - he is just giving the BS a road map for getting through the mess.
I do not think that many WS's will easily return to the M if the BS continues to tell them it was all their (WS) fault. I have never seen where Harley blames the BS for the A.
Are you screaming at me or in general??? I'm a little confused.
Stef,
No, I am not screaming at you. Sorry. I was screaming at the idea that MB perpetuates(now I will get hammered), specifically, that the BS is jointly repsonsible for the conditions which led to the affair. That's a cop out.
I think whether the BS feels responsible or not is, in many cases, time-dependent.
Well, the BS who responded in the thread ranged from DD's 6 years ago to a few months ago. I agree that what you describe should be the context, but I see regular posts which belie it.
No problem...I just wanted to clarify so I knew what I was getting into.
Quote
I was screaming at the idea that MB perpetuates(now I will get hammered), specifically, that the BS is jointly repsonsible for the conditions which led to the affair. That's a cop out.
Todd, then we'll get hammered together because I totally, 100% agree with you.
I, personally, had no doing in my WH's affair.
The problems in our M, I am 50% responsible for. The way he ackowleged our problems...I am 0% responsible for.
I was in the same M as WH was, had the same problems and issues and I didn't go cheat on him. It is a poor, selfish, hurtful, choice that HE made. I chose to handle things differently.
I do not disagree with Pittman and you full well know that.
Pio, I did not say that you disagree with Pittman; only that you get mad when I post his quotes.
If it is true that Plan A is only effective in 15% of cases, I am not so sure that Pittman's "welcome to reality" approach would fare worse. There are a good number of WS who are remorseful, or at least act remorseful, on or about DD.
Is it just reading the other thread that has you riled up or has you STBXW done something more?
I'll tell you what I think about ex & you'll be able to tell who I blame.
As you may remember I don't know for certain ex had an EA or a PA though I suspect he had at least an EA. He made the choice to not share with me his unhappiness. He made the choice to look elsewhere for what he wanted. He choose to not make the effort to try to make our marriage work.
No, I don't blame myself for ex choosing what he perceived to be the greener pasture.
We were both to blame for not making the marriage the best it could be.
I've got a question that will probably seem WAY off topic but please bear with me.
I have a "friend" who has been insisting I have an anger problem. She is a NMNK (never married no kids) woman who tells me I blame ex for the break up of the marriage & says I've not taken any responsibility. She further states I have tunnel vision & can't see things from another person's perspective. She tells me I need professional help with anger.
The reason I bring this up here is this person is honestly the only person in my life to see me this way. I want to know if anyone here has seen me in this way. I've asked my friends in RL & no one sees me as she does & I really can't figure out where she's coming from
Is it just reading the other thread that has you riled up or has you STBXW done something more?
Hi Nams,
You must be a mind reader. STBXW called over the weekend. I may have posted this already but how would I know? Anyway, she had just gotten off the phone with her best friend which BF was livid at me for abandoning STBXW. So BF - I mean STBXW - lectured me that you don't abandon your spouse when the marriage is not all rosy, that you stay and work things out with your spouse. I asked her if she believed that, why did she run across the street and hop in bed with OM instead of working out the problems. She said that was different. Okay, so that call didn't end so well.
Today, she had the nerve to call and ask me to come over and hook up her gas clothes dryer. I told her to call OM. That call did not end well either.
So, to answer your question, now that I think about it, I suppose that was bubbling - boiling - beneath the surface and the combination of blame shifting WS and BS who supported the blameshifting got to me. Thank you for helping me see that.
Your friend reminds me of STBXW's two best friends, both of whom are alcoholics, muliple divorcees, abandoned their kids and generally hate marriage. Yet, they dispense sage marriage advice endlessly.
Since your friend has never been married nor has any children, she is ill equipped to give marital advice. You do not sound abnormally angry to me. If you didn't have some anger, you wouldn't be human. My advice would be to ignore her.
The gift of infidelity just keeps on giving doesn't it Todd?
I think this may be, in part, what my "friend" means when she calls me angry. If triggers come up & I express anger I've now become an angry person who needs professional help. Because she is a NMNK woman she simply can't understand the long lasting effects of infidelity & the break up of a long marriage.
Nams, you are very wise. I have known my best friend since the seventh grade. We are like brothers and he is supportive but doesn't have a clue what I have gone through. I take his advice and feedback with a grain of salt. I think that explains why forums such as MB.com are so popular.
I don't think I said that Harley blames the BS. Maybe I did, but I don't remember. Heck, I sometimes can't remember what I posted 10 minutes ago. Harley says that both the BS and WS are responsible for conditions in the marriage which made the A possible. What I believe that made the A possible is the dismantling of boundaries by the WS. Our pop culture is supportive of that attitude.
As to whether your marriage would not have been successful if you followed Pittman, I am not convinced. Given that Plan A has a 15% success rate, Pittman's philosophy may easily beat that. Heck, chance may beat that.
I'm curious about something. Do you think it is possible that your NMNK friend is or has been at one time an OW? Just wondering. If so, that would certainly slant her perspective.
I need to respond to your post about the hamsters and my looking out for them. I am the founding member and current president of HAMSTER which is an acronym for Hamsters Against Malicious and Sadistic Treatment of Rodents. In that regard, our union also represents mice, guinea pigs and rats.
We support euthanization of terminally ill rodents and those rodents in severe pain. While CO2 is an approved method, we wanted to clarify only if the CO2 is delivered from a tank source as opposed to a homemade apparatus. Otherwise, hamsterane treatment cannot be assured.
I also need to add that we are fully supportive of REPTILE which is against the human ownership of Squamata and more specifically Iguania, Iguanidae, Scleroglossa, Anguimorpha, Helodermatidae, Anguidae, Gekkota, Gekkonidae, Scincomorpha, Teiidae, Scincidae and Serpentes. The live feeding of insects to such "pets" is the primary cause of insect death in the world. Shameful.
I was at my absolute best when WH strayed the first time...we had only been married 4 months and I was 3 months prego at the time...I have to say I was in excellent physical, mental and spiritual shape...I had not time to have caused anything and was in NO WAY responsible for his choice to stray. I was not the cause of any of his remaining "bad choices" either. Obviously our marriage had issues due to how it started.
Nams, I agree with Pio...probably NMNK was OW at least once. I had the pleasure of sitting nearby 2 NMNK's at a local coffee house and listened as they described their torid love lives complete with descriptions of "his girlfriend doesn't know anything about me...I was so hurt he spent the w/e with me and went right back to her and wants to act like nothing happened..." Who knows if the guy is married etc but these young women spoke as if this were the norm...the kicker was the guy had same name as my WH and same profession...chances of that????
Also with NMNK's I feel like it is the same as a Pediatrician without kids giving you advice on parenting...no offense but text books and clinical experience cannot replace the real deal.
Stph...hello!!!!
gotta run to watch a Christmas show with kids...be back later
the kicker was the guy had same name as my WH and same profession...chances of that????
That's very interesting. So what you are saying then is that there may be a correlation between choice of profession and propensity to cheat? Has that ever been studied? That thought had never occurred to me before. Hmmm...
Also with NMNK's I feel like it is the same as a Pediatrician without kids giving you advice on parenting...no offense but text books and clinical experience cannot replace the real deal.
Hi 2much, hope you are doing better.
So, does the above mean that to give SF advice, one has to be a porn star?
Nams, you are very wise. I have known my best friend since the seventh grade. We are like brothers and he is supportive but doesn't have a clue what I have gone through. I take his advice and feedback with a grain of salt. I think that explains why forums such as MB.com are so popular.
I have known my best friend since the fourth grade. The kicker of this story is her parents divorced when she was little due to infidelity, so she knows about the hurt it causes kids involved...but she doesn't have a clue of the hurt and pain I've had to endure and doesn't understand me still wanting to be with WH. She supports me, but she hasn't been where I've been.
Nobody has a clue of what BS's go through until they've been there themselves.
As much as I love my RL friends and family, I would not have made it this far without MB and talking to people who have been there, done that. I found myself resenting anybody who tried to give me advice on what to do (or not do) when they haven't had to go through this. Am I alone in this thinking?
I'm going to go a little further than that. nams has one person among all she knows who says she has anger issues over the A. This friend is NMNK. Now I don't know this friend's age but I am guessing well old enough to not be NMNK. In fact, in my home state, I am guessing she would have been a spinster four times over.
So this friend has a keen interest in nams (nams'...nams'es...ok how do you write that anyway???) situation. It is like having a mole within the "enemy" camp. She wants the BS (any BS but nams is convenient) to see the lighter side of the A. She wants that because of guilt/fear within herself and she fears facing the full wrath of the BS in her sitch if she is ever found out.
Okay I admit it is a stretch but not much of one. I think that is why Todd and I are on the same page with this - we both see the same thing. Or am I wrong oh mighty one?
I'm not saying nams has anger issues. I am saying NMNK friend is projecting.
BigK,
It is the weekend and I'm not on email at the moment. When you have a chance, could you give some thought as to that question that WW felt compelled to ask me? It was very nearly non sequitur. She could have asked many things - or asked nothing at all. Why was that so important to her. Also, do you think I made a mistake in answering the way I did? I have an opinion as to why she did it but I would really like to hear yours. I'm going to ask Todd the same and I would like to compare the two. If your answer agrees with my opinion, I see that as a very positive thing. More later.
If there is an adult NMNK in your state, it obviously means she has no brothers.
Or she can run faster than they can.
In fact stph, to be quite honest, the evil/sinister side of me might even suspect NMNK friend of being nams' OW and doing damage control. One way or the other, NMNK definitely has her own agenda.
I'm going to put this in an edit rather than a new post but I have been thinking the past few days about something and it has now occurred to me. Right now I think the biggest danger to my M is that WW, through her actions, has forced me to come to the realization that she is not necessary and, if need be, replaceable. I never would have even thought about that pre-Dday. I was "married for life". Same in my work. I find a company I like and I stay there. I've never been one to job-hop to get ahead.
Thanks everybody. I appreciate the comments & insights.
Interesting to think my NMNK "friend" could have been an OW at one time. Not with ex though, the timing of that is off.
I do believe she has an agenda though I can't imagine what it is.
What's odd is she will bring up ex & say things like "Oh, people change, & life is different than it used to be" as if that's a good reason to give up on a marriage. She will also talk about ex's gf in a positive way. ex, ex's gf was laid off recently, NMNK commented on how strong & brave she was & that she deserves credit. As if I want to find reasons to be sympathetic towards her. Don't think so.
These things don't usually remain a secret for long, so, though I'll be distancing myself from her, I imagine I'll hear something in the no too distant future.
You know Nams, I was happy to see you put "friend" in quotes. While my best friend can in no way appreciate what I have been through, and while he was/is supportive of R, he does it in a way that emphasizes the positives of marriage. If he took on the characteristics of your "friend" he and I would have a hard time remaining friends. But friends - real friends - have the instincts and care not to do that. Stick with your other friends who are supportive.
As I said nams, I don't know the circumstances. I do believe given the right combination of factors she could be guilty of something. Something is not right with her. I think she is a "duck".
I guess my point is that I don't think that doing a so-so Plan A as compared to a great Plan A makes a gnat's eyelash worth of difference. If the WS is going to stay based on Plan A alone, I think it is more their personal choice than the influence of the BS. JMO (sorry BigK - JMVHO).
As it happens Pio, I totally agree. LOL.
Plan A is supposed to show the BS as a viable alternative to the OP IF the affair ends - that's all - it isn't magical.
But that is why there is a carrot and a stick - the stick ends the affair, the carrot shows the BS as an alternative.
If the affair is ongoing throughout all of Plan A then Plan B is needed to break up the affair. Many times Plan A does end the affair as it did with my wife - It was exposure that did the trick. It wasn't so much fun when she saw how sleazy she looked in our childrens eyes.
I think whether the BS feels responsible or not is, in many cases, time-dependent. Dday and its fallout is a huge blow to the self-esteem of many BS. We are depressed. The WS blames us and we have little defense. We accept their rewritten history because our worlds are crumbling around us and this person we adore and respect and hold on a pedestal has done something that they should be incapable of. It is easy to blame ourselves because we don't want to blame WS. But as time passes, we begin to realize who WS really is, how weak they are, how selfish and immature they behave. We re-examine ourselves, we regain our confidence little by little and we begin to see what is really happening.
So in my case, if I see a BS right after Dday who blames themself, I take it with a grain of salt. If I see a BS who does so a year or two after Dday, I have little patience for that. If the WS was truly that unhappy, there are options: counseling and divorce. Affairs have never been nor will be a valid choice.
Cinderella and Snow White? A cat fight... Ooooh...I need a cold shower.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I could not have said it better myself. It's natural for a BS to take the blame on D-Day but eventually, hopefully, they wake up.
Pio - you are being a bit cryptic but if you are referring to the question I think you are referring to then I think she is afraid that she is losing you because you have not re-engaged with her and she thinks maybe there is someone else. She does not know what else she can do to be a good wife
Talked to a friend...whose family is still 'intact' and with whom we did activities together...when I HAD a family...
Big trigger...guys...hurts like ******! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Quote
If you create an anti-cheating island...I wanna come too!
...me, too.
Quote
STBXW called over the weekend.
Thanks, Nams....didn't want to say it...but I figured just as much, too!
Quote
You do not sound abnormally angry to me. ....You seem to have it together pretty good and have moved on, as much as possible.
Nams......I am with Todd and stph20...so there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
You may have noticed at the top of my thread....a 'trigger' got me here..... a BS's days are filled with trigger-mines... sometimes....they're hard to navigate.... and MOST people that do not share the experience will have a hard time understanding the reality of a BS's day.....
Quote
What I believe that made the A possible is the dismantling of boundaries by the WS. Our pop culture is supportive of that attitude.
Yep...I agree.... (and sorry for sounding like a parrot!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I need to respond to your post about the hamsters and my looking out for them. I am the founding member and current president of HAMSTER which is an acronym.....
Geesh, Todd....being the busy man you are....I appreciate the time you took to furnish me with an explanation...luv you! ((((((((((((TODD))))))))))))
Quote
uh...wouldn't that be HAMSTOR?
Stop being so picky Pio!
Quote
I have an opinion as to why she did it but I would really like to hear yours. I'm going to ask Todd the same and I would like to compare the two. If your answer agrees with my opinion,
....this sounds suspicious....are you holding out on us, Pio?
Quote
What's odd is she will bring up ex & say things like "Oh, people change, & life is different than it used to be" as if that's a good reason to give up on a marriage. She will also talk about ex's gf in a positive way. ex, ex's gf was laid off recently, NMNK commented on how strong & brave she was & that she deserves credit. As if I want to find reasons to be sympathetic towards her. Don't think so.
...now this is DEFINITELY suspicious! ...not sure she would remain 'my friend' for long! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Quote
Pio - you are being a bit cryptic but if you are referring to the question...
Hi BigK.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Agree with all the trigger talk, that is why I am soooooooooo looking forward to moving. I had to explain to my DD1 why I couldn't listen to the radio station she likes...WH received many, many, personalized CD's of love songs and such over the past 9months to the point there is almost no safe song that doesn't have some trigger. He had tons of songs downloaded on IPOD r/t profession and frequently played and replayed songs that must have had some meaning to him...I hate them all...they are bad triggers. Not to mention restaurants he frequented with OWs and admitted to...etc I look forward to the day that I can move past this and listen to anything without flames, fist clenching, tears etc.
I thought this Holiday list would lighten my mood and perhaps yours:
Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear?
* 2. Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Kings Disoriented Are
* 3. Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas
* 4. Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me
* 5. Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Buses and Trucks and Trees and...
* 6. Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Get Me
* 7. Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open Fire
* 8. Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll Tell You Why
* 9. Attention Deficit Disorder --- Silent night, Holy oooh look at the Froggy - can I have a chocolate, why is France so far away?
Yes, Todd, I use "friend" because it's appropriate. It's really unfortunate she's acting this way & it's getting weirder by the day. I can't answer her strange & off base emails any more. I think what I need to do is ignore her. It's a no win situation at this point.
OK, here's an excerpt from an email I got yesterday. NMNK loves to play a semantics game. If came back to her & said I'd not lied about anything she'd likely tell me of course she didn't say I lied you're distorting my words again.
"On Sunday Lois asked me why you would lie about how much she paid her models. I told her that you did not really lie - but that because of the pain from your divorce you are in a weird place where you are seeing things in a very distorted way. And the saddest part is that you do not even know it."
I realize this is out of context & probably odd & confusing, but does the whole tone strike you a weird? I would have let this drop already but I'm now a bit concerned abut her.
I promise to let this drop after this as it's so clearly not appropriate for this thread. Thanks for indulging me.
As far I am CONCERNED, if it's a CONCERN to you....it's a CONCERN, period....and sooooooo VERY appropriate to this thread!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
...I told her that you did not really lie - but that because of the pain from your divorce you are in a weird place where you are seeing things in a very distorted way. And the saddest part is that you do not even know it.
If I got this right, Nams....this is your friend saying this about you, in trying to 'defend' you???
....sounds the 'distortion' is happening on her end... some explanation may be found in what's happened or happening in HER life....I find these kind of comments usually tell more about the person saying them than about the person they are talking about!
Is this someone you have known for a long time? ...does it sound to you like she is her usual self?
I'm...OK. Some days are better than others, but I can't talk about it here!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I guess I'll have to revive my dead thread and let you know what's going on.
Thanks Luna, but you know what? I'm tired of this & just don't want to work this hard for her friendship. I've been talking to a RL friend who knows us both & realized this whole situation has been going on for the last couple of months.
First a comment here & there, then insistence, then accusations. I'm sick of it &, honestly, her comments have eroded my desire to remain her friend.
I'm...OK. Some days are better than others, but I can't talk about it here!!
I guess I'll have to revive my dead thread and let you know what's going on.
How are you holding up luna?
....yes please do....lest we forget...you are co-habitating with a WS....that is a concern in itself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I am holding out OK....the fact that I have a few Xmas parties to go to really helps...good food...good company...it always hits the spot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
...it being the 2nd year solo.....MUCH much much better than last year overall!
W H E R E...A R E...Y O U ! ! ! ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Please check in or we will have to report you to the 'missing persons' department!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
...and that goes for anybody else who intends to be absent for any unreasonable length of time.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
....as it's understandable how we can be very sensitive to any show of 'lack of respect'.....n'est-ce pas???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Now....some of us may have the excuse that it's the weekend....with the exception of Pio, of course....whose weekend for some reason is in the middle of the week...go figure! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Pio?...will you be dressing up as Santa Claus for your girls, or will it be the 'invisible' one coming down the chimney.....maybe not...don't suppose in SA you have chimneys.....so will you be squeezing in the air-condition ducks!??...ducs!??....uhmmmm....passage way!!
..unless you fear coming face to face with one of your hamster! ..now..that would be a real 'high noon' showdown!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Thanks Luna, but you know what? I'm tired of this & just don't want to work this hard for her friendship. I've been talking to a RL friend who knows us both & realized this whole situation has been going on for the last couple of months.
First a comment here & there, then insistence, then accusations. I'm sick of it &, honestly, her comments have eroded my desire to remain her friend.
Having decided that has lifted a weight in ways.
... some friendships are meant to be 'temporary'....
...and if you feel like a 'weight' has been lifted... that says it all I think! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I always enjoyed the Righteous Brothers version of 'You've Lost That Loving Feeling'...
....I believe a whole other level of meaning has been added to it for many of us here ...do I need to elaborate?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVING FEELING
You never close your eyes any more When I kiss your lips And there's no tenderness like before In your fingertips You're trying hard not to show it baby But baby, baby I know it
You've lost that loving feeling Oh, that loving feeling You've lost that loving feeling Now it's gone, gone, gone Whoa-oh
Now there's no tenderness In your eyes when I reach for you And girl you're starting to criticize little things I do It makes me just feel like crying baby 'Cause baby, something beautiful's dying
You've lost that loving feeling Oh that loving feeling Bring back that loving feeling Now it's gone gone gone And I can't go on No-oh-oh
Baby baby I get down on my knees for you If you would only love me like you used to do We had a love A love a love you don't find every day So don't...don't...don't let it slip away
Bring back that loving feeling Oh, that loving feeling Bring back that loving feeling Now it's gone...gone...gone... And I can't go on... No-oh-oh...
I'm not dressing up as Santa but I am trying to convince WW to. She doesn't really like garter belts though. POJA. DD2 is sick with a bad cold so was up crying last night because her "snot was stopped up" (that is direct translation from the Spanish). DD1 woke up and woke me up because she was dreaming about spiders. I still have her in "dream warrior" training but she has a way to go. So she ended up in bed with us but on my side so that WW wouldn't get upset. So it has been a long night and will be an even longer day.
OK luna...I updated my thread just for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm glad to see that you're doing OK with everything. Partying always helps! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Okay here is the email I sent to BigK and to Todd. You can all chime in if you wish.
------------------------
Well against my better judgment and in a bit of anger, I had a talk with WW last night and told her that I am at the end of my rope and don't know how much more I can take. I told her that I am very angry and not because of the A. I told her people make mistakes and deserve another chance but I can never forgive her for something she is not the least bit sorry for. I told her that what she had done hurt us all but me the most and I resented her cavalier attitude pretending all was well in Camelot while I was suffering. I could go into more details but you get the gist.
WW told me that she is sorry and she cries every day while I am at work for the shame of what she has done but she hides that from me because she doesn't want to hurt me. I told her that by hiding her feelings, she was doing exactly what she says she doesn't want to do. She said she is sorry but doesn't want to tell me that because she is afraid I will get mad. I asked if I had gotten mad before or had she just decided that on her own. She said she had decided on her own.
I told her that by hiding her feelings she was not being honest with me. I told her that I could never trust a woman who had done what she had done and not felt the slightest remorse. She told me not to trust her then. I said I wanted a divorce in that case. She said she is very sorry for everything but wants to be positive and happy for me. I told her she is not helping me by doing that. She asked what I wanted. I told her that we need to communicate. We should not try to hide our feelings. By her expressing those feelings to me, she shows me that she is human rather than the evil witch I am beginning to believe she is. She said she is trying to show me by actions. I said that I appreciated that and have been very pleased with the effort she has made but I cannot read her mind. I am in defensive mode right now and if I have two choices, I am going to assume the worst. The only way she can set me straight is to tell me herself.
Last night I was asleep before she got in bed (depression). This AM I was getting ready to go to work and thinking that WW and I were going to have the final D talk. When I got out of the bathroom, she had a different idea. I think we are a little bruised but okay and I think it will turn out to have been a good thing.
She did ask me last night if I thought about another woman. I told her yes I did. She asked why I didn't do it. I told her because I was married. I asked her if she was suggesting that I have an A. She said no. I asked if she was suggesting we become swingers. She said she wasn't suggesting anything – it was just a question. I said that yes I did think about it sometimes but I knew I would never have an A. It would only be to escape the pain I am in and would be a fantasy. It wouldn't be real. As much baggage as I have form the damage she has done to me, it would be unfair to everyone involved that I have a relationship with another woman right now. I told her that if I divorced her today, I expected it would be a minimum of 5 years before I ever thought about seeing another woman. I would need that much time to heal. I did ask her if she wanted a divorce. She said no. I was ready to agree with her if she had said yes.
-------------------------
So I was curious that, of all the things she could think to ask, why that? And I already had a suspicion.
I think she asked because she's scared of a revenge affair Pio.
Is that what you thought?
So you asked her if she wanted a divorce and she said no, but you were ready to agree if she had said yes...what was your reaction to her no? Are you depositing in her bank, or do you not care enough at this point?
I won't go so far as to speculate that she is concerned about a revenge A. But I do think she had a motive. That motive was either to try to justify something or for fear of something. My first reaction was justification but, after a little thought, I leaned more toward fear. Fear of what? I'm not sure.
Well criticize me all you want but I think I have put up with quite a lot. I have heard even Harley advocates "compensation" and, so far, I have received essentially none IMHO. So I am having trouble WANTING to reconnect because I see a WW who is still a WW with no regrets about being a WW except getting caught. That's what I see. If she wants to change that perception, she needs to throw me a bone. Yes she has been attentive but I cannot read her mind. I think communication is missing.
Because many people have said that withdrawal takes time and that true remorse may take six months or even much longer. Many people have said you do not have to be in love to begin recovery and that, following MB principles, you can fall back in love. So my plan was to establish NC and give WW time. During that time I would, to the best of my abilities, follow MB guidelines. And, regardless of how I felt, I would stay with that plan. So I am following my original plan.
If we can recover the M and the family, it will be a far better environment for the DDs. Any strength I have to hold to the plan, I derive from them. If I had no DDs, I would easily have drop-kicked WW for a three pointer by now.
She is sending me very mixed signals. I see many positive actions but zero communication. I can always get a divorce. Right now I am waiting to see what happens. I am trying to spend 15 hours with WW each week. I am avoiding DJ's and the majority of LB's. I'm trying to follow the four rules as best as possible allowing for human error.
Pio - NOWHERE does HArley EVER say that regret or remorse are necessary to recovery. Just compensation is always in the form of NC and following a plan for marital recovery.
Having said that, I could not live without the remorse from my wife and knowing she "got it" but that point came 6 months into recovery. You are not in recovery yet.
Nothing I have said should be interpretted as a criticism of you in any way shape or form. We all make our own way through this mess.
I have not deluded myself into believing otherwise. As long as WW remains dishonest, we will never begin recovery. By hiding her true feelings - whatever they are - she is not being honest. So here I go plugging along trying to maintain peace and order until that magic day when we do begin recovery and have to fend off these 2x4's in the meantime. I feel like I always have to defend myself for continuing in the M. I am not referring to anyone in particular BTW. It is just a general feeling. But I am not happy. My life is filled with much unhappiness at the moment. But I accept that as a necessary cost.
Yesterday I finally mounted the router to my table saw. Sad to say but that is the most pleasure I have had in months. It is simply perfection. I could not have done it any better. Unfortunately what I did learn was that I have not had nearly enough respect in my life for machine head bolts. I got by but "just". Now I need to develop a collection of machine head bolts. I have always preferred socket head and hex head. I have plenty of those in all sizes, lengths and threads (English AND metric) - but only a handfull of machine head bolts.
Pio FWIW I honestly don't think of you as anything but a success. It grieves me to think you would consider anything I have said today as a 2 X 4. You are a MB success IMO
....and I think you are 'communicating' this to G... ....keep 'showing' her how to communicate feelings and how to be honest about them as you are... keep telling her that you prefer knowing how she feels...even if it hurts....because otherwise you will think the worst...
...I do think G. is scared with talks of D....is lost and needs guidance... needs to be reassured that you do want the M to recover...but that both of you are struggling to figure out how to do that...
...and I am sorry for the pain you are feeling....and wish I could give you a REAL hug!
...we all care very much about you Pio... and thank you for sharing your post to a 'larger circle'...and getting out of your 'comfort zone' of Todd and BigK....
...you are judging yourself waaaayyyy to harshly....my dear Pio!
I'm sure everyone is busy getting ready for Christmas...we are making Reindeer Food at my house today (Chex, cheerios, m&m's, peanuts and chocolate)...had house full of kids yesterday and it was a super-duper diversion and felt great. I even watched the neighbors, toddler and infant with all my kids friends over...chaos but fun chaos.
WH called making arrangements for DD1 to take over his cell phone with new phone and # on the plan...I was on the call as 3rd party as he was transferring service into my name...he was discussing the transition with the customer service person and referred to me as his XW!!! I asked him if I was getting an early promotion!!! LOL, I thought that was very telling. Kicker is he picked up kids last night to stay with him for the night...when he got them he walked up to me nose to nose and whispered "I hate you" and began crying...I smooched him quick on the lips when we were nose to nose and said, "good to know"...he hugged me and I cheerfully said..."come on just say it out loud, you want a divorce..." he bursts into tears and says he doesn't, he wants to be nice, talk etc...I asked him when he was going to start talking...he says, "I don't know, when it's too late..." I shook my head, waved and shut the door...Go figure. I am proceeding as planned.
Pio...
Quote
I feel like I always have to defend myself for continuing in the M
I think you are talking to yourself...IMHO and correct me if I am wrong, you are daily questioning why you are still there and are having to convince self it is worth it right? It is draining, frustrating and depressing...I think your taker is in huge withdrawal and now that G has been back some time it is execting some deposits even if your logic isn't. I think your plan sounds great...please try and hold out...good chance G is just so afraid that you are going to decide that her actions are unforgivable and throw her to the curb...she is most likely acting how she thinks you want her to act but in not communicating to you she complicates things more...what a web of confusion.
When you are spending 15 hr/wk what are you doing that there is no communication? Are you waiting for G to initiate the conversation? She is probably afraid that anything she brings up will cause you more hurt and pain and could potentially trigger a reaction that could lead you to change your mind and give up on M...she is most likely scared poopless and a wreck on the inside if she is truly remorseful and wanting to save M. What about POJA...could you not discuss some rules that reassure her that no matter what she tells you and despite your emotional reaction you will be there for the family? Reality is you do have the right to decide if it is/isn't worth it and G realizes this...I bet this is the hardest thing for WS b/c it is instinctive to protect yourself so it would be easier for them in most cases to not even bother with the work of recovery since as my WS has said many months ago, I don't want to go through all the pain and work just to have you realize you can't get over it or I make a slip up and then you kick me to the curb anyway...
Have you considered the home study course that BK did? Are you going to IC? What is BK's recommendation for this phase?
Hugs to Nams...sorry about the person who considers you a friend...sounds like you need to Plan B her!
Luna, good to see you cheerful...hope all is well with the boys and that you are neck deep in fun and Holiday spirit/mischief1
BK, sup! Any specialty foods for the Holidays from your place you care to share??? I love hot crab dip if anyone has any scrumptious recipes for anything related to this or a bisque?
Stph...hugz for you and superpowers from Todd to endure and enjoy the Holidays!
Todd...where are you? You must be out searching for Larousse who has abandoned the TKO ship.
Beth, hope you have some down time to rest and relax in all the retail mess! As a shopper, I love the hustle and bustle but not so sure as a retail owner if I would feel the same...seems like there are lots of grouchy folks looking to vent out there. Hang in there!
Cinders...I am waiting to hear how you are...
Having some guests tonight to help entertain the kids...board game night...wish me luck this is not my favoritest activity...not a big gamer...hopefully I will have so much fun I'll forget we are playing a board game and learn to love them...I can try right?!
Hi 2much! You sound in a great mood! Good for you.
Your WH sounds like he wants what he wants & all should accommodate his wishes. A narcissist perhaps? I was saddened to read he had his first affair at what 3-6 months into your marriage? Perhaps a sex addict as well? Eek!
Pio, from my perspective you are making great efforts to save your marriage. You've also been open & honest about your feelings.
My only suggestion would be to sit down with G & tell her in no uncertain terms what you need. Use specific words like this:
G, I need to see remorse. I need to see you understand the pain you've caused me & the girls. You must show me you're truly sorry. It seems you've stepped back into our family to move on as if before the affair, behaving as you would have if this never happened. But it did & something different is required of you now before I can feel safe, before I can feel love for you again, before we can really recover.
I need you to talk to me about what you're feeling, If you're afraid I won't love you again, if you're uncertain if you love me, if you're afraid you might cheat again or that I might, I want to hear that. I need to hear that.
To say you need to have communication from her may be vague. Be very specific in what you need to hear from her.
You're right 2much, I do need to plan B my "friend".
A friend has brought up a very good point & that is that NMNK is likely doing the best she can to be a friend. But for lack of understanding regarding my circumstances she's been hurtful & shown me things about her that make her unattractive as a friend.
Hey Todd! nams waves! Hope all is well down in your neck of the woods.
Well criticize me all you want but I think I have put up with quite a lot. I have heard even Harley advocates "compensation" and, so far, I have received essentially none IMHO. So I am having trouble WANTING to reconnect because I see a WW who is still a WW with no regrets about being a WW except getting caught. That's what I see. If she wants to change that perception, she needs to throw me a bone. Yes she has been attentive but I cannot read her mind. I think communication is missing.
Pio- You have put up with a lot. Explain to her exactly what you need from her in order for this to work. You have the tools you need, you know how to get the communication back, share that with G. You both need to know that you both are committed. I see G as being scared and I see you (obviously) having trust issues. Both of those things are going to take time to deal with, but you have to start somewhere. And maybe, deep down, you're as scared as G is?
I appreciate what you are all saying but from my POV it is interfering with the experimental model. If I say "I need X" and I get "X", is "X" real or fabricated to appease?
It sounds like you're holding up rather well. I'm so glad to see it. Obviously whatever you're doing is working on your WH! Why do they always think it will be too late? My WH said the same thing. He was going to proceed as planned (getting a divorce), then regret it for the rest of his life because it would be to late. IMO, he would be right. Once D papers are signed, I don't think I would ever go back. But that's neither here nor there.
I'm just glad to see your in a great mood. Enjoy the weekend and holidays.
{{{{{{{2much}}}}}}}
Hi nams! I agree with everyone on your friend situation. With friends like that, who needs enemies?
I appreciate what you are all saying but from my POV it is interfering with the experimental model. If I say "I need X" and I get "X", is "X" real or fabricated to appease?
IMO, it may very well be fabricated in the beginning. Women tend to be pleasers. But eventually, it will be the real thing.
OTOH, she may want you so badly that it will be real from the start.
You'll be able to tell by her consistency, don't you think?
But don't you think you'll be able to spot G's sincerity?
Let her know what you need in plain terms then leave it to her to find a way to express that. Of course, don't push her away out of hurt, be open to her way of communicating her remorse.
You seem a perceptive & intuitive man. If you have a niggling suspicion or feeling express it to yourself. What can it hurt at this point?
When I was in the midst of false recovery with ex I said all the right things to myself about his sincerity. But there was this persistent voice inside of me not allowing me to fool myself. I didn't want it to see the light of day but late at night it would wake me up just to be heard.
If G's responses to your request fall flat part of you will know it. More often than not we know, we just don't want acknowledge the feelings.
I just posted this on Hiker's thread that we were on yesterday. I have not read your entire thread to know exactly how you come to this point but this is my observation of what I have seen so far. Take it for what it's worth or Not!
Pio,
I am going to be frank here. IMO you letting your' anger control you in this situation. I carried my anger for a V E R Y L O N G time after the A. But the difference is that my wife was never made aware of it. It was my anger not hers.
Yes she caused it but my taking it out on her was not going to correct the problem. I felt the only way for us to move forward was to work on us in the present and future not dwell on the past mistakes. We worked together and eventually she did come to be remorseful and contrite. But she never has known the depth of Hurt her affair caused me. And that's the way I wanted it because in fact I'm not sure she could have handled it well knowing. That alone may have been the final deal breaker as she was close to a breakdown from the stress of the whole thing.
I would suggest giving her your' best effort at recovery and stop the DJs, LBs, etc. Show how much you really want her in your' life and not that you are ready to dump her now or later if she doesn't respond as you think she should. If you really work on this give the CARE and LOVE a wife needs she will respond sooner than later.
Right now the work load is YOUR's not her's. GET BUSY!!!!!!!!
But don't you think you'll be able to spot G's sincerity?
Good question but keep in mind that WS's develop a keen ability to lie. Factor in that humans perceive things based on their own emotional states so I'm not unbiased. She has always been able to resoundingly convince the IC of her lies so I consider that a better litmus test.
No question I got really angry just before our wedding anniversary and, although it has abated quite a bit, I still feel it and have nothing more to attribute it to than maybe the holidays. I will say that there is probably not a moment that goes by that I don't think about this. I usually don't feel anger. Generally I feel disappointment. What makes me angry more than anything is when we have opportunities to communicate but don't. We seem to have developed a whole new language whose sole purpose is to convey meaning without communicating. Kind of like how we great people and ask how they are but the reality is we don't want the real answer - we want them to tell us they are fine so we can continue on with our lives. Like WW will ask me "how I woke up". It makes sense in Spanish but not in English. Anyway, she wants me to say "fine". If I begin to say anything else she gets nervous and says something like "Oh! The cake is burning!" and starts to run toward the kitchen. I'll stop her and remind her she isn't baking a cake. She says "Oh! I need to bake a cake!" and runs to the kitchen.
Her feelings may be of contrition. Or they may be of despair over missing PB. Or they may be indecision over what color to paint the ceiling. The point is I don't know. I am operating blind and in a vacuum and I am now in to self-preservation so I tend to assume the worst given multiple possibilities. I may well be wrong but WW does nothing to change my mind. Affair or no affair, communication is important to have a good marriage. We don't communicate therefore we cannot have a good marriage. I have been (generally) patient trying to give her time to open up. However at the same time, I grow more distant from her. It possible that by the time she wants me to throw her a lifeline, the rope won't be long enough to reach.
Just sneaking a minute to say hi. I try to keep track of what is happening here with you all.
I really only do have a minute so please forgive me for only making a post to Pio.
Pio, my WH has made the comment several times that although he wants to R he knows it is pointless. He is of the opinion that I will never forgive him anyway, he thinks that every argument that we have in the future I will harp back to his A's and use them against him. He freely admits he would never forgive me under the same circumstances. He has wondered if I have been tempted to look elsewhere for affection, as he thinks he would deserve that. He also now tells me that some days the guilt of what he has done nearly destroys him and he is apalled at his selfish behavior.If I would consider R he doubts that he is man enough to live with the look of sadness he sees in my eyes even when I smile.
I am only telling you this as it does give some insight into the minds of our spouses. I guess when reality hits them then they do suffer too. I can only imagine the guilt they feel when they think about the devastation their selfish actions caused.
It is like being caught in quicksand for us both.
Sorry this is so rushed but keep working at it Pio. You have such a good chance to make this work. God bless you all.
When gemela asked me if I had thought about a relationship with another woman, I said yes - mainly because it was the truth. But I have not thought about any woman in particular. It is a "fantasy" woman with whom I can share love, I'm free from infidelity, life is wonderful and I think there may even be butterflies flittering casually in the spring meadow I seem to be standing in for no obviously good reason. IOW, I think about a relationship free of and far away from infidelity. OTOH, I appear to have some unexplained aversion to "real" other women. So I guess I have to stay with gemela and keep chasing butterflies.
(brief threadjack to answer 2m's question: epidural steroid injection was yesterday. seems somewhat better. Have appointment with neurosurgeon Monday. Don't know if surgery is immenent or if it's 6 months away or 2 years away. But, if potential diminshment of use of my arm/s is likely if I wait, waiting is not an option. Even my children could see that some of the MRI film did NOT look good. They could see the 2 points of spinal cord impingement. We shall see what we shall see.)
Pio - question - (I think I already know the answer BTW)
Have YOU committed to being married to Gemela?
Because commitment is a 2 way street. I am not surprised she is feeling insecure with all the mixed and guarded messages you are giving her.
What are Gemelas EN's? Are you meeting her needs and she yours?
Pio - you both need to commit to recovery without hanging onto parachute and escape clauses. Gemela is confused. She is looking for a way back into your heart. SHe is doing everything she knows how and she is not seeing what she considers would be your response if you wanted back in as well. Hence she asks if there is anyone else. She does not know what else to do Pio.
You have to take the lead on this. Your marriage can make it but you are the greatest danger to it at the moment which is totally fine if that is what you want.
I'm going to throw this out because it just occurred to me. First I will reiterate that something magically changed for me the day I found the love letters and photos. I know you are going to hammer me for dwelling on the past but bear with me here. At the time, I thought that was the best thing that could ever have happened because I finally saw OM for what he really was (i.e. an [censored]-wipe nothing). That felt good. But something else happened that day that I've never been able to put my finger on. That day has always been a turning point for reasons I've never understood. It wasn't just the last straw or yet another case of catching gemela in the lie. What I think happened is that, on that day, I lost respect for her. And I think that's where I may be at now - I don't respect her any more. I respected her more when I thought she had fallen in love with Prince Gallahad. But now that I see what she did all this for, I don't respect her any more.
You have to take the lead on this. Your marriage can make it but you are the greatest danger to it at the moment which is totally fine if that is what you want.
Pio,
This is what you need to see. Do you really want this M or NOT? Yes you have been hurt, you are angry, you feel you don't respect her, but it is not her so much as what she did. RIGHT!!!! You need to also remember that when she did that she was a WS, not your Gemela. IMHO You need to "MAN UP" as they say and as Big K said "Take the lead" if you want this M to work!!!!!
Pio - they always affair down. My wife's OM was someone she would never even look at if she was single. OM was inferior to me in every respect.
My wife lost my respect as well of course. She earned it back when she re-entered the marriage and did what needed to be done to repair the devastation. She listened to my venting at her. She did the hardest thing she could do by recommitting to our marriage.
She earned it back when she re-entered the marriage and did what needed to be done to repair the devastation.
Sounds great - and yet you don't seem willing to allow me the same luxury. I have to admit I am getting some mixed signals on the forum today.
On a different note, in addition to respecting gemela, I have to be able to respect myself. Some people might derive that from total self-denial and swallow all the humiliation, etc. etc. In fact, that is what Plan A relies on. So how does a man really define himself? If I can't respect me, I don't think gemela will respect me and I think Todd will back me up on this but I believe gemela respects more that I DON'T swallow it. JMO but I think it is a "latin" thing.
Or as Luna would put it - I think my "taker" is coming forward.
Pio - I'm not suggesting you should swallow it and I am more than happy to allow you the same luxury.
In case I am speaking in code, let me plainly state:-
1. Your marriage can recover 2. I believe both you and Gemela want it to recover 3. Recovery is not a spectator sport and is not passive. You must BOTH participate equally and enthusiastically.
You want her to re-enter the marriage while you sit on the sidelines and watch and secondguess her every move.
I would HATE to see you divorce because I know you can make it.
Actuallt - (3) above is not necessarily true - but your recovery will be deeper and better and quicker if it is.
I have to admit I am getting some mixed signals on the forum today.
On a different note, in addition to respecting gemela, I have to be able to respect myself. Some people might derive that from total self-denial and swallow all the humiliation, etc. etc.
I fail to see where working on your M with your wife can be seen as anything but showing respect for both her and you or seen as you losing self respect. From my perspective if you are unbending and unwilling to move forward without some nebulous words from your wife asking for forgiveness then that is not respecting her and by being so rigid you are then losing your self respect.
What's this Latin thing got to do with this? Sounds to me like some kind false sense of pride that you won't let go of so you can move forward in Your M.
Opps I just DJ'd
You know what though if you were to take the Lead and swallow some of that pride you might just be surprised where your' Wife would go with you in this M.
My wife has been fence-sitting a very very long time. I'm a little tired of it. I think I have swallowed about a year's worth of pride. As BigK can attest, I'm full of it. I Plan A'ed way way too long. Big mistake. I'm very close to Plan D each and every day. I don't believe I display that to gemela except on rare occasions. I think I am being a very loving and good husband. I'm just unhappy inside.
So BigK, in a nutshell, the one thing I am doing wrong is I am not enthusiastic. I can't disagree.
On a side note, Cinderella, Please look after yourself. It sounds pretty bad. Hope it wasn't the hoop. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
As I told you in an earlier post I haven't read your complete thread and really don't heve the time to do so. I have been just responding to what I have been observing of your' recent posts. They seem pretty negative to me. I hope that you can find a way make this work out.
So what is keeping her on the fence? Could it be fear of how you will react if she lets her defenses down?
IMO you might try letting know that you are there because you love her and that the past has already been forgiven by you whether she asks or not. That's showing her that you are taking the Lead and want to work on the M with her. That's also something to be respected for and definitly a self respecting act.
I still feel that if you keep working on being really positive, as hard as that may be, you will end up the better for it and so will your' M.
I'm interested in your opinion. Do you think your PRWW would respect you more or less if you caved completely and absolved her of all responsibility for the A?
I always grew up with a Nativity scene for Christmas. I know many people do. But, according to gemela, the Nativity scene is probably one of the most important traditions for Mexicans. Sadly when we moved to Saudi we had to ship all our Christmas decorations to the USA so that they would not be confiscated by Saudi customs. Unfortunately this meant the Nativity scene as well. Last year (after Christmas) WW decided she could go no longer without a Nativity scene. She found one she really liked from a website in Mexico and I ordered it and had it shipped to SIL's house. SIL sent it to us in Saudi via DHL because we thought that would give us the best chance of getting it. We thought wrong. Between the Nativity scene (with 12" ceramic figures), the stable, the Fed-ex charges to SIL's house and the DHL charges to Saudi, we were out about $1,000. Unfortunately the thing never got past Saudi customs (on three different tries). DHL was going to ship it back to Mexico (at my expense) but (long story short) I was able to divert it clandestinely to Bahrain where it received less scrutiny. So I had a vendor arrange to bring it across to me. Unfortunately rather than put it in his car and bring it across at his leisure, he, wanting to impress me, sent it across with his company driver. They were stopped on the bridge and inspected. Fortunately the driver with his quick thinking was able to convince the customs officer that the Nativity scene was oilfield parts. So it finally arrived after three months but just barely.
This is the first year we have had to use the Nativity scene. WW had a Latina luncheon in the house right after Thanksgiving so we made a mad rush to decorate for Christmas to impress the ladies (which did succeed). In our rush, we created a three-tiered platform for the Nativity scene out of bricks we keep lying around for just such occasions. Even as I was doing it, I did not enjoy placing expensive 12" ceramic figurines on bricks in the middle of the floor right in front of the Christmas tree. In fact I spent a sleepless night over it. That evening after the luncheon I simply broke down. I could not survive another night like that. So I went into the garage, got a piece of plywood and 2x4's and cut, ripped, sawed and mitered down to a 2 foot by 4 foot three tiered wood platform. Now the ceramic figures all had two holes in the bottom. So I drilled holes in the platform after careful measurement of where each figure would go and, using my very best cable ties, secured them in place. I was able to secure all the figures except for the shepherd who only had one hole in the bottom. After about an hour of ransacking the garage, I finally came up with a molly bolt for him that I carefully inserted so as not to damage the ceramic. I secured everything except for the manger, Joseph and Mary and the angel. Even so, I slept great that night. Now I don't know about your Nativity scenes but in ours, Jesus does not arrive until the wee hours of the morning on the 25th. Why? Because he hasn't been born yet. So Jesus is quietly and safely tucked away upstairs. It is always a big event when Jesus arrives in the manger. MIL, in fact, has a toy black BMW convertible in which he arrives at her house. Jesus goes in style. Our Nativity scene is quite popular. Even Jasmine and Chloe Bratz have made the pilgrimage multiple times.
Anyway, although I had to face some ridicule from WW for all my work, I was very proud of my construction. Each day I admire it silently so as not to attract more harsh words from WW for my trivial pursuit. So I went home for lunch. WW greets me adoringly with a hug and a kiss, DD1 is playing joyfully and we get ready to eat. She calls DD2. DD2 comes downstairs and stands outside the breakfast room door in tears. I know she has not been feeling well so I go to console her. The first words out of her mouth were "I didn't mean to break it". Even though those were her first words, it took the third iteration for me to actually understand it through her sobs and moans. I ask what. She points in the direction of the Nativity scene.
Okay as I piece this together (her story that is), she and DD1 were playing with some balloons. DD1 batted the balloons and DD2 was backing up to try to catch them, not looking where she was going and…well…do you know what a "snow angel" is? Imagine a Nativity scene angel. That's what happened. It couldn't have been any worse. Gemela found her bawling spread eagle in the dead center of the Nativity scene. I didn't see any of this of course. I am only getting the retold version. The good news is that, because of all my careful planning, quality craftsmanship and hard work, even with all that, the only thing that actually broke was the two ears off the burro and gemela had already glued them back on before I got home. If I had not done all that, DD2 would have had the equivalent of a "strike" in bowling. I shutter to think about it. So now gemela is telling me "you were right – sorry". DD2 has learned her lesson and DD1 learned hers by proxy. And when Jesus finally does arrive in the manger, he'll be none the wiser.
BTW, at lunch gemela asked me why I never secured the stable, Joseph and Mary and the angel. I reminded her that she ridiculed me, told me not to and ssid that I was going over-the-top.
Today she told me I have to do it as soon as I get home tonight.
What a beautiful Christmas story. I totally agree with Gemela a Nativity scene is vital for the true spirit of Christmas. I bet the burro becomes the second most precious piece of the scene. For years to come you will remember this time.
I just also wanted to mention that I sent you an email Pio. I know it is not recommended to email each other but I so badly wanted you to see my beautiful coast. There is something so soothing to the spirit in the photographs on the site.
If anyone else would like to view the photographs maybe Pio will know how to link the site to MB ??
I have postponed often cleaning up my closets...but did just that last night.....and was reminded of WHY I postpone it...
I know for a fact that I am a very visual person... and so every little item...as silly as it might look from the outside...has a story...and for me, a very VIVID picture of when it was acquired, used, worn, etc. etc. and so in a sense one could say that my closets are 'full' of triggers....as I basically see my LIFE flash by me....
...but I also wanted to make it an objective, having some time off over the holidays, to take time and attempt the 3 Rs...reduce, recycle, reuse...and 'lighten' the load not wanting to start feeling overwhelmed by the accumulation...
...it looks like either way....it will be hard... I will have to readjust my objectives...and settle to 'chipping away' very SLOWLY at the accumulation....
...holidays and memories do not a good mix make!!
...in the meantime....the night is shot! ARGGGHHH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Good morning Luna! I have closets that need cleaning too...I'm still able to put it off.
Last week I pulled out a box from under my bed. In it I found some clothes of mine & several of ex's things. They didn't have that same impact they would have last year so that's progress. I'll offer them to the boys.
I'm taking a 4 1/2 hour test today, PRAXIS 1, for school. I've put it off too long already, but that may work in my favor because now I can line up some money for school. Send good thoughts my way please, I'll need it most for the math portion of the test. I can take math & do well but it never stays with me.
Good morning Luna! I have closets that need cleaning too...I'm still able to put it off.
Hi Nams....wish I could, too.....but I will have to settle for 'chipping away' at them....it's really starting to get 'crammed'....and can't find what I am looking for sometimes!
The good thing about math is that they haven't added any more numbers recently so it is pretty much the same as the last time you took a test with it. Don't expect any surprises.
Photos are the worst. The boys came home from their father's a couple of weeks ago & talked about looking at the photos from when we lived in Spain, a very happy time for all. As much as I want to feel the good feelings they do & share that with them, just think I can't because I'd end up crying. Kinda ruin the good time feel.
Thanks for the cheer Luna!
4 1/2 hours, if it doesn't kill me it will make me stronger.
4 1/2 hours, if it doesn't kill me it will make me stronger.
Well, Nams... I will be rooting for 'stronger'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
One of my favorite movie lines of all time is from Darla's opening monologue in the movie "Slap her, she's French!" when she is talking about the girl who betrayed her. She says something to the effect "like Fred Nietzsche said: that which doesn't kill us is about to wish it had 'cause we're going to Fed-Ex its sorry [censored] back to Skanksville where it came from". Always makes me laugh.
Okay the stable is good for about a category 3 hurricane and Joseph and Mary have brand new cable ties. I think we're set.
Yay!! Another problem resolved. That wasn't so bad, was it Pio?
I agree with everyone Pio. Communication, communication, communication. It's the key. You both need to learn how to communicate with each other in order to repair this. You can't act passively and expect your marriage to magically be wonderful again (BTW, I'm kind of talking to myself as well as to you).
I'm not saying your not doing the work, because I don't know, I'm just saying that it needs to happen.
What are you doing to try to fall back in love with each other?
OK, I probably sound stupid, so I'm going to shut up now.
I only have a few minutes (lucky for you all) but have to say:
Luna...ditto on the closet sentiments...my solution was give away almost all clothing to Goodwill...start new wardrobe...it worked b/c I went from a size 8/10 down to a 4 and nothing fit anyway plus made me feel good about self and reduced the triggers by removing them. I too am a packrat with tons of "sentiment and stories to all items"
Pio, Remember when I made a pact with you back in Sep-Oct and committed to an entire month of doing something I really didn't want to do? Ok, well I didn't have successful outcome but it didn't make me any more miserable in the long run and I can sleep knowing I did everything possible for my M...I am asking you for a Christmas gift...give yourself a month, fully throw yourself into the M with emotion, honesty etc...could it hurt...yeah temporarily and emotionally but in the large scale big scheme it can only help. Can you commit from today until 18 Jan to do this without telling G that this is a "trial" ??? PLEASE SANTA??? BTW good Nativity story...I bet I never mentioned how DD2 got bit by the goat at a live Nativity 2 year ago:)
For everyone else...laughter...short story...I am dog sitting...dogs escape while I am in shower...DS barges in looking frightened to death (he was responsible for the breakout) screaming that I need to do something the dogs have escaped...( I have 2 of my own that do the same so we are familiar with the dog R process)...I have 1 leg shaved, conditioner on my head...worst possible moment...I quickly rinse, bolt out, throw on clothes...keeping towel on head, load kids in car and begin the dog hunt...60min later after paying off a teenager in cash and Christmas candy I have the dogs back and DD2 is embarassed b/c I drove around with a bath towel on my head!!!
Judging by the scores they provided me when I finished the test, I passed two (MATH, YA!, & reading) of three sections with a third section, writing, still needing to be evaluated.
GAWD, I hope that's right!
Leave it to an engineer to be glib about math. For me it's just a step above terrifying. By the time the writing portion rolled around I was feeling fuzzy headed. If I don't pass that section it will have been from test fatigue. Yikes! Four plus hours is more than enough. But I'm feeling good.
Judging by the scores they provided me when I finished the test, I passed two (MATH...
But are you absolutely sure they did the math right when they checked your scores? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
DDs are out of school for break. It is very cold here and has been raining day and night so they have cabin fever. So I come home from work and kids are wired. WW doesn't know what to do with them. DD1 had her hamster ball out and was letting one of the hamsters roam free in the house in its little ball. WW is frantic. So I calmly tell DD1 to go upstairs and get the bowling pins and I tell DD2 to put her hamster in its ball and voilá - we now have hamster bowling. The kids played it for hours and were so happy. Honestly - do I have to think of everything? It's not a very high scoring game though because it's difficult to motivate the hamsters to run in the direction of the pins but, even at that, it is great for helping DDs with their math. Everybody wins! DD2 in her endless creativity did experiment with "power assisted" hamster bowling with the intent to improve her score. Makes the little guys very dizzy though so I don't recommend it.
I see on Al Jazeera that Walmart has opened a store in China. The manager was quoted as saying that they are very pleased and promise to not sell any imported goods. This is a first for Walmart - a factory outlet store.
Well, the neurosurgeon told me nothing I didn't already know. I have 2 herniated discs between C5 & C7. He would like to avoid doing surgery for as long as possible. He wants to try anti-inflammatory drugs (didn't give me any info about the drug of choice) and Physical Therapy (but the place to which his office referred me can't see me for 1.5 wks but it is Christmas time).
So, I don't know much more.....but I'm not being raced off to surgery this week. So, that's good.
He better be good because he has the personality and bedside manner of a stump.
Hi Kiwi! nams waves with a big smile! Hope all is well in your world.
Todd? Let us know you're OK, if you would please.
On my way out to finish up last minute stuff.
The other day a young clerk at WalMart got snippy with me when I asked if they expected a particular thing to come in again before Christmas. He said something about that's what you get when you wait until the last minute. I was nice & explained I'd actually bought the thing a month ago but needed this extra part which they've not had for a month.
Poor thing got embarrassed, I think he expected me to complain & get irritated with him. I've worked retail so I know how he feels. I just thanked him for his help & wished him a happy holiday, in a politically correct way.
Walmart has been in Shenzhen for ages. Definitely more than a year and more like two. In fact I think there are branches all over Southern China. Strange it is only making the news now in Saudi. I might go there tomorrow.
I am genuinely surprised that you read that rag. WalMart has almost 2,700 locations outside the US with 45 in China. WalMart's policy has always been to source locally inasmuch as possible. That includes sourcing within the states in which particular stores are located. WalMart employees 1.8 million worldwide. Contrary to all the bad press and propaganda, the average wage is $10.11. Over 70% of WalMart managers started as store associates.
I have been under the weather for a few days. I talked to one of my docs today about the complication that started a couple weeks ago and while they know the cause, they don't know what caused the cause. That's tortuous, but you get the idea. I have also had some worrisome memory problems lately so I am almost afraid to post. He also gave me some really bad news today so I taking a few days off.
I may not have been posting but I have been reading when I get a chance. When you disappear I worry about you. The Big C club is a very uniting one but also the most unwelcoming. We just do not want any new members!
Your post today has reminded me of so much, that I have spent most of the night in tears. My heart goes out to you Todd and I so wish there was something I could do. I am just praying that writing this post is the right thing to do.
I can only guess at the really bad news you heard today from your doctor. I am sorry Todd but keep on being you and fighting your heart out. There are miracles every day. Never,ever give up hope I have seen them and I am one.
Right now though, I think I need to tell you more about my cancer. I usually do not like discussing it too much as it colors peoples feelings towards me and I don't wish to rehash it all the time.
When I was diagnosed I was told I was a stage three and the cancer had spread. As you know about cancer that is not what you want to hear. It’s the first time in your life you want a low score.
I had to have radical surgery, the heaviest chemo and radiation possible to the extent I cannot ever have anymore due to my heart. My prognosis was not good. These treatments were never looked upon as a cure just hopefully a life extension.
I am still here Todd and celebrating a Christmas I wasn't supposed to have. I am truly blessed. I enjoy every day of my life. I make the most of every day. I have a new appreciation for the smallest things. Sunsets and sunrises delight me for its another day I enjoyed my life and that of my sons and the people I love. I hug more, I laugh more and sadly I eat and drink more!
Every three months I have a full battery of tests. The doctors say it is inevitable the cancer will return somewhere. But then again - they thought it would have killed me months ago too.
You are obviously strong and a fighter. Never give up Todd. They are only doctors and not God. Although the odd doctor I have been to does think they are related! They do the best they can with man made technology. I am grateful for my doctors every day but I also remember every day that they are only human. The ultimate decision is not theirs to make.
I wish you strength Todd and may God bless you. It is not always as dark as it seems. You are in my prayers.
He also gave me some really bad news today so I taking a few days off.
ToddAC...I have no idea what you are going through and cannot imagine your pain. If I were nearby I would drag you out of your chair, wrap you up in your superman cape and start doing all the silly fun filled things that you never had time to do but always wanted to...not sure what those things would be but I know they would make you laugh and smile until your face hurt! We would go on an eating spree of all the most delicious ethnic foods you crave and have pockets full of Tums and Rolaids...we would sing at the top of our lungs and recite some of your crazy lyrics and poetry on public street corners...we'd write letters of thanks to all the people who have molded and shaped you into the awesome role model of a father and man that you are today...we'd watch all of the superman movies and try to re-enact the stunts...I don't know but I'm sure we'd have fun...I am so sad that you are hurting...let it out and then live every moment you can...I am thinking of you and praying for you. We miss you
Cinders, thanks for the update...glad to see no rush for surgery at the moment. Enjoy the Holidays as best you can, thoughts and prayers to you too!
Pio, Am I on your ignore filter????
Hi to all my TKO family members...gotta run DS to cardiology appt...back soon
Thank you for your kind and supportive words and hugs. Your support and friendship means more to me than you know.
Yesterday was a challenging day for me. I called my neurologist to tell him about the memory problems I had been having. He assured me that it was normal and I may get all of my memory back and I may get none. Most patients recover some of their memory but not all. He prescribed a medicine which is the same one given to Alzheimer patients. He wanted me to get another MRI to ensure everything looks normal. He reminded me that I am due for my regular scan anyway. When I was diagnosed in November 2005, I was in the hospital. He walked into my room and straight to my bed with a very solemn look on his face. Mr. ToddAC, he began, you have a very large brain tumor. Ironically, the phrase that struck me the most was not brain tumor, but “very large”. I asked him what does very large mean. He said 4 Cm. And, it is not in a good area. It is on your brainstem. Surgery is too risky because the stem is literally a bundle of nerves. I also don’t recommend a biopsy for the same reasons. We do not want to risk disturbing the surrounding tissue. He said the recommended treatment would be radiation. I stopped him at that point and told him I wanted no prognosis. I will not accept a weight hanging over my head. I will be positive about this and beat it. He assured me that a positive attitude would be very helpful. He went on to explain that my optic nerves had been damaged and that explained my inability to see 20/20. Also, the tumor is responsible for your scrambled hormones. Since we cannot do a biopsy, I will estimate the tumor stage. We need to get some MRI’s in the future and look at any old film you have. I also have a form the nurse will go over with you. Then he was gone.
I was stunned. Other people get brain tumors. Not me. The enormity of the news began to sink in. I had another problem however, one that weighed much heavier on my mind. I had already determined that my wife had been having an affair with a neighbor. I had not yet confronted her, partly for fear of being right and partly because I had been very ill for a few months. Then, the thought of telling my sons hit me full square. It was late in the afternoon and they would all three be here after work. I could not stand the thought of telling them. I conspired to lie to them, to say there is no tumor. Protect them from hurt. That was my instinct. The truth won. I told them and they took it hard. That alone made it one of the toughest days of my life. Over the next year, I kept my positive attitude. I never felt sorry for myself. In some ways, I always considered my wife’s affair to be a gift. It overshadowed my BT and allowed it to stay in the background and for me to remain positive about it. I was always proud of my positive attitude and especially so about the BT.
Yesterday, it all came crashing down. Emboldened by the fact that the tumor had shrunk 50% in response to the treatments, I asked my doc what my prognosis was. He said: two years. I was puzzled. Two years. Two years from when. From diagnosis he responded. What is two years from diagnosis doc? Life expectancy for a tumor of your type, location and stage. Doc, are you telling me that I have a year left? He said, I am giving you the prognosis for your tumor. There are exceptions but based on my experience, that is the life expectancy. I reminded him that I had radiation and that the tumor was approximately half its original size. He said that yes, it is good that I am responsive to the treatments but it doesn’t change the original prognosis. The prognosis assumes you will follow the treatment regimen recommended to you. In fact,, the purpose of radiation therapy is to increase your life expectancy. Yeah doc, but I thought that meant in terms of a decade or two? Well, it could be, but that would not be the expectation. To say I was devastated doesn’t get the job done. Again, all I could think was how will I tell my sons? I couldn’t think, eat or sleep. And yes, I threw a pity party. I have never felt so sorry for myself. For the first time, I uttered: Why me? Oh, it was quite the party. I invited sadness, despair, regret, anger, sorrow, hurt and bitterness. They all showed up. We had a ball. Sorrow got so drunk he threw up and then crashed in the bathroom. I had to call a taxi to take anger and bitterness home. After the party, I was alone again. I didn’t know where to turn next. Somewhere in there, I read stph’s post asking if I was okay. Then my post and I was back to pity.
I was so bothered by the conversation that I called his nurse back and asked for the doc to call me. He did last night. He had forgotten that I never got an initial diagnosis. He said if I had remembered that, I would have never given you a prognosis over the phone. I told him, doc I am stunned. I said it is a stage 2 tumor, I should be okay after the treatments, right? He said no, I believe it is a stage 3. Friends, a note here. Stage 3 tumors seem to have one destiny: to become stage 4 tumors. As for stage 4 tumors, I recall an article in which a writer had asked a neurologist if 250,000 patients were diagnosed with a grade 4 brain tumor today, how many would be alive in three years? Zero. He asked a second doc who responded, maaaybe one, which translated means zero. The doc did say that staging the tumor is an inexact science without a biopsy but in his best judgment, it is a 3. He added that the neurosurgeon believes it is a 2. He then committed to getting with the neurosurgeon and the radiation oncologist and the three would agree on a stage, but simply based on the size and your history, it seems that it grew fast. So, he gave me a glimmer of hope, a crack in the door. But, I returned to my self pity.
And then a very funny thing happened.
The Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung used the term synchronicity to describe the following:
The meaningful acausal coincidence of a psychological event and an external observable event, both taking place at or around the same time.
As I sat there, trying to think and reason my way through the emotional maze, I heard a familiar voice from the television. I looked up to see Lance Armstrong. He was talking to cancer. Yes, cancer. Carrying on a conversation. I was amused quite candidly. But at the very end he said the following:
Thank you cancer. You made me the man I am today.
I was so moved by his courage and understanding, I burst into tears. I was now on a new map, with a compass which pointed me in a new direction. Like everyone, I had heard the Lance Armstrong story. Cancer survivor who went on to win 7 Tour de France victories. Yes, very inspiring. But, thank you cancer? Thank you? I googled for Lance Armstrong quotes, commercials and interviews. I found an interview that had been on CNN. The interviewer asked a most peculiar question. Lance, if you could choose between cancer and winning the Tour, which would it be? He said: Cancer. He was asked why? He said that the tour victories were great but he will never be able to do those again, but that he will always be a cancer survivor. Moreover, if he had not gotten cancer, he would have never won the Tour. He took the cancer as a challenge. He lost weight and got in the best shape of his life. The rest is history.
So, my friends, I have a new hero. Lance Armstrong’s television commercial was Jung’s “external observable event”: my own synchronicity. The psychological event was my own sadness and despair. The lesson it offered was not lost on me.
Doctor, I have news for you. You are merely a doc. Yes, you worked hard to get through medical school, internship and residency, but you are not God. You can spit out statistics and means, more, medians and standard deviations. You are knowledgeable. But you don’t know me. You have never met anyone like me. I will be the story you can tell your other patients about. And hey, lets agree to meet in ten, twenty and thirty years. I will be here.
Brain tumor, you were and are an uninvited guest. You will be leaving. You are not welcome here. But thank you. I will be forever grateful.
One last thing my friends. I thought I had a positive attitude during the past year. And in many regards, I did. But I also sublimated the tumor to my hurt and anger concerning my wife. My wife’s affair was no gift; it had become a crutch for me. That has changed. Last night, I had a profound revelation. Thank you Lance.
Wonderful Todd! If I were ever in your shoes I'd like to think I'd have 1/10th the courage you have. Your attitude is an inspiration & a lesson in positive thinking.
Yes, you worked hard to get through medical school, internship and residency, but you are not God
You know what they call the guy who graduated last in his class at medical school...."Doctor".
You know that expression "there is safety in numbers"? That is how many people are with statistics and especially doctors. If I remember correctly, Lance had a pretty poor prognosis too.
Todd recovers his cape, dons it, takes a leap and is in flight faster and higher than ever...the crowd cheers, tears of joy are shed, our hero has returned!
TKO love to you bro!
So if you are superman and Pio is also Todd, what does that make Pio...an arch enemy or Clark Kent?
Pio do you have anything to say regarding my Christmas gift or am I gonna have to wait for Christmas????
Okay, off topic. I am starting to agree with Todd - YIKES!!!
Doing my Christmas shopping online, and suddenly having problems big time with my bank. I have NO credit cards, don't want them. I use a debit card. All year, I never have had a problem. Now that Christmas is here, my bank (Wells Fargo), wants to protect me from fraud.
They want to protect me so much that I can't get access to my money!! I could go in to the bank and withdraw it all, but on-line, there is one thing after another.
Now, Todd, I'm not talking about millions. I have around $4,000. in the account. I'm buying a Nintendo Wii, some games, a portable Sirius w/subscription, a little money to Mexico via Western Union, etc. In the last 2 days, I've called the bank 4 times. Their answer is that all of this is for MY protection. I'm thinking of talking to them, and just telling them to STOP protecting me, JUST GIVE ME THE F'ING MONEY.
BTW, also want to point out I have a new sig line. Seems to better reflect current situation.
[color:"blue"] Those who can truly be accounted brave are those who best know the meaning of what is sweet in life and what is terrible, and then go out undeterred, to meet what is to come. Pericles [/color]
Last year, I sold a fairly expensive item on eBay, approx. $3,000 and used PayPal. When I tried to transfer the money from PP to my bank account, PP said no, we are protecting you. We need for you to send a notarized affadavit to us stating and proving that you are ToddAC and blah blah blah.
I called support and used every word in my vocabulary. Yes, especially those words. they were not amused. I felt so strongly, that I wrote the AG office of the federalales and my own backward state.
This is what I heard from both of them.
That's right: nothing.
I have not dealt with PP since.
BTW, I originally opened a PP account 5 years ago because my able college student, DS2 told me it was an effective way to get money to him. He can be resourceful when he needs or wants to.
Alright....TKO....be warned...get ready for some venting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Going into details at this point is irrelevant...suffice to say that it is linked to WS and OW...and the numerous emotional wounds and scars added since D-day.
I know for a fact that as a BS, I will be obliged to 'manage' for life the many emotional wounds and scars that have been added to my 'baggage' after becoming the third wheel in a triangle of WS's A....
...but, of course, as best as one tries...I do expect to hit a 'hidden mine', among many, once in awhile, and know that it will hurt like ****** when I do...
...Do you all see where this is going?
...Well...I have hit one...so...let the tears flow....let PAIN have its 15-minutes of fame by my sharing this with you all....by recognizing that it's THERE....lurking...at every corner...ready to come out.....
...so that way...I can get on with my life....DAMN IT!
I woke up this AM at 3:45 (later than usual but it is the weekend) and if WW had been awake, she and I would have had a very frank conversation. I'm not sure why. Anyway, I worked out and went back to bed and got up with WW and things were okay.
2much,
I promise you I am on my best behavior. I am just not happy on the inside. WW doesn't know that though and - yes - I am sure of that. I am trying to be happy on the inside though. We are 2/3 of the way through the Godfather trilogy. It isn't helping much.
I am sitting here listening to Carrie Underwood's CD, "Some Hearts". I got it for Christmas last year and it is fantastic. I dare say it maybe the best first album from a singer I have ever heard. Lots of songs and no throw aways.
The following are lyrics which may fit some hidden if fleeting thoughts which some BS may have had.
[color:"blue"] Right now he's probably slow dancin' with a bleached-blond tramp, and she's probably getting frisky... right now, he's probably buying her some fruity little drink cause she can't shoot whiskey... Right now, he's probably up behind her with a pool-stick, showin' her how to shoot a combo... And he don't know...
I dug my key into the side of his pretty little suped up 4 wheel drive, carved my name into his leather seats... I took a Louisville slugger to both head lights, slashed a hole in all 4 tires...
And maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.
Right now, she's probably up singin' some white-trash version of Shania karaoke.. Right now, she's probably sayin' "I'm drunk" and he's a thinkin' that he's gonna get lucky, Right now, he's probably dabbin'on 3 dollars worth of that bathroom colone... Oh and he don't know ohhh...
I dug my key into the side of his pretty little suped up 4 wheel drive, carved my name into his leather seats, I took a Louisville slugger to both head lights, slashed a hole in all 4 tires...
And maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.
I mighta saved a little trouble for the next girl, Cause the next time that he cheats... Oh, you know it won't be on me! Nooo... not on me...
I dug my key into the side of his pretty little suped up 4 wheel drive, carved my name into his leather seats... I took a Louisville slugger to both head lights, slashed a hole in all 4 tires... Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.
Ohh.. Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats...
Todd, you sound much more in control...hope you are feeling that way. I don't have half your challenges and I still am trying to get some control...externally I am doing well but internally, still all over the map. It stinks but we use the tools available to make the most of what we have or don't <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Pio's got tons of tools...maybe we can borrow some...Can you spare a small corner of the cape...maybe that would help? I guess I could choose my own superpower garb...I may look funny running around in my red snowflake onepiece pj's though...reminds me of the year I got myself some santa lingerie and basically was laughed at...can you believe...I thought I looked pretty hot but WH said the hat threw it over the edge...yeah he's a jerk alright! Never tried that again...
Luna...let it all out girl...I feel your pain...hugs, chicken soup, wine and chocolate...need I say more???
Hang in there everyone. This time of year is hard to get through. I even read about many churches having blue Christmas services.
I'm into Round 3 with my bank. They don't like on-line purchases. They like me to go to the grocery store and buy food, go to the bar and buy a round, but they don't like a lot of other things I do.
So I ended up with 2 Wii Rabbid Rabbit games, 2 Excite Truck games, 4 money orders on their way to Mexico, etc. For some reason, the bank at first declined the charges, and 3 days later, decided they were okay to pay. In the meantime, I went out and bought doubles. And there is STILL around $1,000. floating around somewhere in IT space.
I'm all over it, BigK. It is making my Christmas extra stressful. I've been a customer for 30 years, and have money in savings too. They are just so busy "protecting" my money, that I can't use it.
Luna...let it all out girl...I feel your pain...hugs, chicken soup, wine and chocolate...need I say more???
No....you said it all.....'girl'! ...and...same to you!
Quote
Pio's got tons of tools...maybe we can borrow some...
....in fact...sooooo many....that he wouldn't even notice were there to be a 'few' missing!
Sorry B. for your IT space trouble....I have a sneeking suspicion (??spelling) you will soon figure out how to make your IT space...history!... Hang in there! ((((((B)))))
BTW....have you seen your OW's S driving around his (your) motocycle lately?
....and what's up with Larousse??....are you out there...are you PLAN Bing us all??? ...would sure like to know that you are OK (at least!)
Yep, I see OW's ex all the time. In fact (you may have missed it), I hooked him up with my son's GF's mom, and they have been dating since July.
B!....you matchmaker you! ....and did I 'hear' it right, B? Now that you have a D, you exWS won't leave you alone? Go figure! How much does that bother you?
They like me to go to the grocery store and buy food, go to the bar and buy a round, but they don't like a lot of other things I do.
The bank is just trying to help you differentiate between what you need and what you want. They gave you the two things we absolutely need. Is the rest REALLY necessary or is it just capricious spending? Hmmm???
Pio - But they don't differentiate between what I want and need. Tuesday I was low on gas, and stopped to get some on the base. DECLINED.
It is something about the electronic part, but I haven't figured out what. It is irritating, but not that bad for me, because I can still get money by going into the bank. I feel bad for people that don't have that much to begin with, and have to go through this, especially at Christmas.
I'm a bit more liberal than Todd, but after going through this, am starting to agree with him. WELLS FARGO, please don't protect my money from me.
Believer, I thought OW in your scenario moved back home? Obviously not into the arms of her husband!
I am really dubious about on-line purchases. After buying some stuff over the internet last year, my card was cloned and somebody drained my bank account in England. I did get the money back eventually but it was hassle dealing with it from the other side of the world. I totally sympathise regarding banks. I used to work for one. Anal bunch.
TT - Yep, OW is living back home. Kind of strange. She has been back there for a long time. I had hopes at first that OW and her husband could overcome the cheating. But instead OW's husband divorced her.
Now that doesn't mean OW isn't back home - she is. And Joe, her ex, is dating my son's GF's mom.
My question is if the dating works out, what are they going to do about OW living with her ex?
Some CC companies offer a service whereby they generate a unique account number for each online purchase. If someone does hack the number, it apparently can't be tied back to your original account. I've not tried this but it may be worth considering.
I still remember the days of the long lines at the bank when people had to get money out for the weekend. Checks were accepted.
Pio - Mine isn't a credit card, it's a debit card. I called Western Union today to find out about the money floating somewhere in cyberland. They told me that the action was declined by my bank (WELLS FARGO, for anyone that wants to know). But in the meantime, my bank put a hold on the money so that they could pay Western Union.
Then, the deal didn't go through because of the bank, (WELLS FARGO, by the way), so Western Union dropped it. HOWEVER, the money is still on hold. The hold will last until they feel like not holding it. I'm thinking several days. After all, they are still protecting my money from me.
I would like to pose a question to TKO. Recently, three mountain climbers died while climbing Mt Hood in Oregon. Public money was used for rescue/recovery operations.
Do you support public money to rescue stranded mountain climbers? Why or why not?
If Americans have to be evacuated from a foreign country by the US government and they have no other means, the private citizens may ride on the plane with embassy staff and other govt employees provided there is sufficient space and there are enough bags of peanuts. The private citizens, however, will receive a bill for the flight. Say the flight costs $100K and there are 99 govt employees and 1 citizen on the plane. The citizen will receive a bill for 1/100th or $1,000. If he is the only person on the plane, he will get the full bill of $100K. So, if you are ever being evacuated, pray for a full flight.
If your house is on fire, should the fire department come put it out? It is, after all, a private residence. Why should may taxes go to putting out your home?
It is my understanding that a vast majority of the Mt. Hood rescue effort was comprised of volunteers. When they factor in the cost of say helicoptors they exponential increase the cost...but that equipment costs taxpayor's money whether it sits on the ground or not, manpower is the biggest variable cost and that was mostly free.
Mr. Wondering
p.s.- Extreme mountain climbing >>> Thinning out the herd
I think public money should be spent to a point. I don't see how this can work but if it could be determined ahead of time how well prepared these hikers were we'd know how much rescue effort to put in.
I suppose I liken this kind of situation the insurance claims. If a person puts their ladder up against electric wires with the base of the ladder in cow poop, what is the liability of the insurance company? We all end up paying for the stupidity of others & it would be nice to think there is a level of personal responsibility in cases like this.
Should we look for those that need rescuing from themselves? Yes, to a point & they get the bill.
It's pretty obvious that Verizon should foot the bill. I'm not a techie, but spent a lot of time reading about how a $50. phone could launch such a huge effort, and pinpoint a location at the 10,000 ft level.
If I ever go mountain climbing, I'm gonna buy that phone.
My question is if the dating works out, what are they going to do about OW living with her ex?
B...I am a little confused...OW is D but is living together with ex...and ex is dating? ...and everybody is OK with that arrangement, even temporarily? ....is it because of the kids? ...the house? what's up? ...I must be from the stone age!
Quote
If I ever go mountain climbing, I'm gonna buy that phone.
Luna - I'm confused too. OW and her husband were married living with their 12 year old daughter. OW and my ex had an affair and lived together for 3 years.
Now, everyone is divorced, and the affair is over. OW is back living with her ex, who is dating my friend. And I'm still waiting for the bank to find my money.
I do believe public money should be spent - to a point. We all need to be protected from our own stupidity at times. But from this side of the world, what I see at times is things like rescues that simply go way over the top. What would have normally happened in that situation if the media had not gotten hold of it? It is one of the lead items on almost every world news service. Then it becomes a viscious circle. More money is spent because of the public scrutiny. What control, if any, is in place to monitor spending? Who was that girl who faked her kidnapping so she could avoid getting married not so long ago? I was amazed at how they calculated the cost of the search. They obviously DO work for the government. But why was so much money spent? Why did the law enforcement people simply follow their own procedures? Because there was nobody watching over them to protect THEM from THEIR own stupidity.
I get Reality TV. Rescues shows are common on it. I am amazed at how much money I see spent rescuing a dog or a cat. I like dogs and cats but there is a point where too much is too much. I have no statistics to back this up but I am willing to bet that the USA spends far more on a cost basis than any other country in rescue work. Good for them if they can afford it. But they shouldn't complain about it afterward.
Book: 'The Power of Your Subconscious Mind', Dr. Joseph Murphy. Interesting.
Have you seen 'The Secret' DVD or read the book. A friend brought it over for us to watch. It goes along with your positive frame of mind you've been living.
Well as long as the mountaineers aren't French, I do think human life is worth preserving.
BigK, that human life is worth saving is a given. The question is: should public money be used?
Quote
If your house is on fire, should the fire department come put it out? It is, after all, a private residence. Why should may taxes go to putting out your home?
Pio, I don't think public money should be spent to put out my house fire. I see the rightful province of the government reserved to two areas: national defense and a judicial system.
Quote
It is my understanding that a vast majority of the Mt. Hood rescue effort was comprised of volunteers. When they factor in the cost of say helicoptors they exponential increase the cost...but that equipment costs taxpayor's money whether it sits on the ground or not, manpower is the biggest variable cost and that was mostly free.
This is a misnomer. If this were true, the Iraq war would be free. After all, we still have to pay salaries, fly Black Hawks, furnish M16 rounds for training, etc. Economists call it an opportunity cost and it is very real. Know how much fuel a Chinook drinks?
Quote
I think public money should be spent to a point. I don't see how this can work but if it could be determined ahead of time how well prepared these hikers were we'd know how much rescue effort to put in.
Nams, I discussed this with a friend of mine. He agreed that public money should not be used in this instance. He went one step further. He thinks that climbers should not be allowed on the mountain if weather conditions are not favorable. Furthermore, they must register with a ranger and have a rescue contingency plan agreed to with a private rescuer. I disagree. I think we should have the liberty to scale the mountain and the stupidity to do it in December if we like. And, yes, while I recommend contracting with a private rescue service, the choice belongs to the individual. They just have to ask themselves one question: Do you feel lucky? I think we should be free to do anything so long as it does not mitigate the life, liberty or property of another.
Quote
I do believe public money should be spent - to a point. We all need to be protected from our own stupidity at times.
Two points: If it is true that we all need to be protected from our own stupidity, why should the government be the protector? Second, why not let Darwin do his good work? Darwin was hard at work on Mt. Hood. His entire job is to improve the species. The slow and sick zebras get slaughtered. No difference with humans.
I like this idea Todd. Is this something a hiker would be required to sign on to before hiking & how would that be, or would that need to be, regulated?
Perhaps a policy should be posted on all public lands saying you will be responsible for the cost of rescue should that become necessary.
I like this idea Todd. Is this something a hiker would be required to sign on to before hiking & how would that be, or would that need to be, regulated?
Perhaps a policy should be posted on all public lands saying you will be responsible for the cost of rescue should that become necessary.
Under my approach, a hiker would not be required to register or seek permission. Nor when the hiker be required to arrange a rescue service beforehand, just in case. Totally up to the individual. If something goes wrong and a rescue service was not contracted with, well, let's just say Darwin is hard at work.
Now, if other climbers or outdoor enthusiasists volunteer to rescue the hikers or climbers, fine. Volunteerism is great. Not spending the money the government took from me by force however.
Darwin should be allowed to do his work. It is not the government's job to protect us against ourselves.
This is a misnomer. If this were true, the Iraq war would be free. After all, we still have to pay salaries, fly Black Hawks, furnish M16 rounds for training, etc. Economists call it an opportunity cost and it is very real. Know how much fuel a Chinook drinks?
EXACTLY!!!!! Thank you!
BTW, the fuel is free. The Kuwaitis are more than happy to provide it.
I have to admit that there are some costs associated to the war. First, the USA pays Germany a lot of money to effectively charter all their Lufthansa flights (full fare) out of Kuwait rather than use military transport. I don't know how much they pay Russia and France but it must be significant. And let's not forget KBR. That is the true cost of the war and probably really is in the billions.
your approach sounds complicated - but as long as it includes "no helmet laws" for motorcycles, I'm in.
Why would you want to ride without a helmet? Death wish, superhero delusion, rebel? Just curious...do you use your seatbelt when driving/riding in a vehicle? Why would you not take an added measure proven to provide additional safety and prevent unnecessary complications...helmet is to motorcycle like condom is to...
Sorry, I just don't get it.
Looks like I've gone off the deep end huh? It's just the medic in me...once you've seen a few heads crushed like pumpkins then you may join me...or not
2much - Pio is serious. My problem with the no helmet people is that after an accident, they often don't die. Sure, they can "Ride Free", but it is the taxpayers who end up footing the bill for lifetime care.
If elected, one of my first acts would be to repeal motorcycle helmet laws and seatbeat laws. Don't get me wrong, I think people should wear seatbelts. Again, the government should not have the power to force us to do it.
Quote
2much - Pio is serious. My problem with the no helmet people is that after an accident, they often don't die. Sure, they can "Ride Free", but it is the taxpayers who end up footing the bill for lifetime care.
True believer, but the solution is not to require helmets; the solution is to not use taxpayer's money to support them.
Hate to run it in the ground, but let Darwin do his work.
You condom analogy is correct and supports believer's POV. If I have an accident, just like a condom, my brains are going to come spilling out. If I have no helmet, they spill on the street. If I have a helmet, they spill inside the helmet. I am much more likely to die without the helmet. I prefer this to the vegetative state that a helmet might allow. Believer, if I ever do have an accident in your state and DON'T die, you have my permission to pull the plug.
2much, the question is not whether wearing a helmet is a good thing or not, the question is whether our government should tell us we have to wear one to protect ourselves. I think not.
Thank you believer. Seriously, a Libertarian form of government is what our founding fathers had in mind. Thomas Jefferson was a nut for it. So was George Washington. Washington set the example of leaving office after two terms. If his precedent didn't exist, can you see politicans doing that today? No way.
I truly believe that our founding fathers would be appalled to see how pervasive our government is today.
The biggest threat to this country is not terrorism, as big a threat as that is. I could cure that threat in a month or less. The biggest threat is the erosion of self reliance.
I can sign it, get it witnessed and post it in PDF format on my website for download in case it is needed. I just need help with the wording.
BTW, I'm not entirely against helmets. I just don't want to be told that I have to wear one. I am against helmets in a 3000 Km ride, however. Cannot tolerate that. I also have serious heartburn that helmets require DOT approval. I have a helmet. It isn't DOT approved. I'll snap a photo later and upload it.
There are literally dozens of "kinds" of Mexican music. Easily more kinds than there are American music. I like most all of them. But what does "to the first person" mean? What is it about?
Maybe in the libertarian form of government, we can't expect the government to tell us what it is NOT going to do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
The biggest threat to this country is not terrorism, as big a threat as that is. I could cure that threat in a month or less. The biggest threat is the erosion of self
True, but then the gov would need an entire overhaul...we need to quit using gov funding to pay for things that are preventable unless the individuals instituted the preventable measures...helmets, smoking, seatbelts, obesity...should I continue? How do you determine who should get funds and who should not? How do you protect others from the poor judgement of others? Would it then be legal to drink and drive? Carry firearms where ever you wanted?
We have an entire society who blame everything on anyone else except themselves...they rely on society to enforce the rules/boundaries etc and live to push the limits...how would you rectify that in a Libertarian gov?
We have an entire society who blame everything on anyone else except themselves...they rely on society to enforce the rules/boundaries etc and live to push the limits...
Excuse me...you have an entire "country". That is a uniquely American attitude. Most other countries do not follow that philosophy. As I have stated many times before, Americans only represent roughly 5% of the world's population (albeit without question the most important 5%).
Drinking and driving? Carrying weapons? Ever been to Venezuela, for example? In Argentina, it is common for theives to enter a restaurant with weapons and rob everyone in the place at gunpoint. That would never happen in Venezuela. The theives know that all the patrons are packing. I am not advocating that. I am simply saying that viewing everything from the American perspective give you a highly skewed perception of reality.
Now, how did Anericans get this attitude that they must be protected? It wasn't always this way. It certainly wasn't the view when I was a kid. Our government has trained us to think this way - why? So we can need them and therefore require more government.
Todd and Pio - Do you like Mexican music? I just bought the Alejandro Sanz, "A La Primera Persona" song. Love, it.
I love all Latin music I have ever heard. It is also very different from country to country, just like the food is. My favorite is Brazilian jazz. Two of my favorite songs of all time are "Girl from Ipanema" and "Lambada". I also grew fond of Mexican music after hearing the Marachi band at the Mexican restaurant around the corner. Hmm...forgot the name of the song however. Larousse, where the heck are you? Anyway?
What's with you and Kenny G???? You would think due to all of the past years events you would have an aversion to JBJ not Kenny G. I know your philosophy of how his music incites riots and was curious to the history behind this bitter war...
Has Kenny emotionally scarred you Pio? I can only envision a romantic candlelight dinner, gemela all decked out in the latest fashion, all dreamy...an exchange of erotic conversation and then the dream turns into a nightmare and comes to a screeching halt as the music of ... KENNY G is piped into the secluded setting and you freak out...maybe you should mention this in IC if you ever end up going...there maybe some deep subliminal message or...you just have taste:)
Excuse me...you have an entire "country". That is a uniquely American attitude. Most other countries do not follow that philosophy. As I have stated many times before, Americans only represent roughly 5% of the world's population (albeit without question the most important 5%).
Do you think that this has anything to do with why people want to live here? Do you think it is safer than other countries? If you attempt suicide in other countries do they spend gobs of money to save your life and try and keep you alive??? Just asking since I do have a narrow perspective and haven't lived outside the US to experience these views.
The biggest threat to this country is not terrorism, as big a threat as that is. I could cure that threat in a month or less. The biggest threat is the erosion of self
True, but then the gov would need an entire overhaul...we need to quit using gov funding to pay for things that are preventable unless the individuals instituted the preventable measures...helmets, smoking, seatbelts, obesity...should I continue? How do you determine who should get funds and who should not? How do you protect others from the poor judgement of others? Would it then be legal to drink and drive? Carry firearms where ever you wanted?
We have an entire society who blame everything on anyone else except themselves...they rely on society to enforce the rules/boundaries etc and live to push the limits...how would you rectify that in a Libertarian gov?
2much, okay you raised some good questions. Let's review what should be illegal. Anything which mitigates the life, liberty or property of another would be illegal. Think of all the laws which would leave the books...
Over half the prisoners behind bars today are there on drug related charges. And we worry about about our prison crowding problem. So, the first step is to abolish all drug laws. You want to smoke pot, smoke pot. Shoot heroin, shoot yourself. Mess up your life? You have the right. Don't misunderstand me, I am completely against recreational drugs but I would not deprieve my fellow man of using them if he wanted. If you decide you are hooked and need treatment, you are on your own.
We have laws against prositituion. Why? Same reason as anti-drug laws. We love to legislate morality. Any person should be free to do whatever they wish so long as it does not mitigate the life, libery and property of another. Now, if the "another" is a willing participant as in a john who sees a hooker and he gets an STD, he is on his own.
I believe the government has two rightful functions: national defense and a judicial system.
Legal to drink and drive? Not at all. That is an act which puts everyone on the road in jeopardy. Cary firearms when you want? Absolutely. Why not? Now if I shoot someone and I am not defending my life, different story.
I am guessing that you feel the gov has no role in public health either...how about disaster relief...how do you mitigate the impact that these nongov issues have on the public...I am guessing that taxfunds would not be allocated toward anything but Nat'l defenese and judicial issues?
If that were the case there would be gobs of $ circulating around due to less tax $ and a huge reduction in gov employees...wow, can you even imagine how many jobs that would be...where would these people go? The unemployment rate would skyrocket but then again there would be no Medicare, Medicaid or public assistance correct?
It would be a multi prong program to halt terrorism in the US. Notice I didn't say the world. France is on their own.
First, I would say to every country who harbors, trains, supplies or even ignores terrorists within their borders: get them out or face grave conseqences. I would then follow through. Certain areas would be incinerated especially that area where we seem to know that the top boys hang out. Iran, I would take out their muke facilities and create a revolution to overthrow the current government. Like many, I am not so worried about the fool in NK. As crazy as he is, he mainly just wants to dance. I would develop Cuba into world class resorts, or at least pave the way for Trump to do it. There would be profiling under my government. Nothing agains Islam or Arabs, but what is the common denominator of the terrorist who crashed the planes on 9/11? Let's get real. I would fire every government employee who is not involved in defense and the judicial system. Borders would be secured. Airports, seaports and land borders. Redeploy all the people fighting the so called "drug war" and let them provide real protection.
Lastly, if you are a terrorist and get caught by the US, I can assure you will not go to Gitmo. You will not be so lucky. It is time to take back the streets and our country.
Maybe everyone on some form of probation should be forced to listen to a little Kenny G before or after their monthly meeting w/ probation/parole officer. They would know that there is constant KG music in the prisons and that, if returned to prison, they would be subjected to it on a nearly constant basis.
I think many people want to go live in the USA because it has great PR. Other developed countries are happy to sit back and not promote themselves so that they do not fall into the same trap that the USA has. Also, the people trying to go to the USA these days are like the people who rush out and buy IBM stock because they read in the paper that it jumped 40% yesterday.
OTOH, many people go to the USA and make quite a success of themselves. They do that because they know that they have to rely on themselves to make it happen - and they bust their butts to get it.
IMHO the USA needs to finds its identity again. It was once the melting pot. Now what is it? It is a very large economy driven by a tendency toward mediocrity. It is a service economy. We want everything done for us. On an aside, I am fascinated each time I go back and walk through the supermarket. I am amazed by how many clever ways people have devised to allow us to do less and less. Even the food we buy in the supermarket is fast food - in resealable pouches as if that were necessary. it isn't because they have already measured out the correct portions for us. We are no longer required to think and therefore should not be held accountable for our own actions.
I have a friend whose mother just died of cancer in Argentina. She was diagnosed and then prescribed morphine in case of pain. No other treatment. She was sent home to die (with which she complied). There was never any discussion of possible treatment. The inevitability of death was accepted without question.
Something that really amuses me: a bank robber gets caught in mid-robbery. The SWAT team surrounds the building. All snipers have a laser sight on the robber. The robber knows it is about over. He puts his gun to his head and says that he will kill himself if the police try anything. What do you think would happen? What would happen in the USA? What would happen in the same situation in Mexico?
There would be some temporary "structural" unemployment as government employees shift to private jobs but if I could get the average fed income tax rate down to 3%, do you realize the incredible impact that would have on our economy? It would zoom even more than it currently is. Taxes are a drag on the economy. We also would not need the IRS. There would be no complex laws no 10,000 pages of tax code or whatever it was. Three percent is deducted from each and every paycheck. Period. No deductions, no itemizations, nothing.
Here is an example of what tax cuts can do. After every tax cut implemented by our fed gov't, tax receipts increased! Increased. The dims talk about the "rich" paying their fair share. Before the Bush tax cuts, upper income earners paid an average of 35% of their income in taxes with a lower tax rate, they now pay 37%. Isn't that odd? It is because they are participating in a bigger economy and hence making more money and paying more taxes. Amazing isn't it.
And I am so sick of the liberal media smirking at how in the year 2045, China will be the world's largest economy. In 2005, the amount of growth of the US economy was greater than the entire Chinese economy. Moreover, the 2045 forecasts are based on extrapolation which means someone took China's current sustainable growth rate of 10% and did the math. The Chinese have not had yet to deal with the whacko environmental crowd. As China more fully participates in the world economy, rights will accrue to its citizens. It is inevitable. China will have to deal with that. Meanwhile, the US is doing fine, thank you.
I read an article by AP the other day, the headline of which was:
US economy to grow as Asia and Europe Predicted to do Well, or words to that effect.
Guess what? The headline writer lied! When I read the article, it was predicted, by non US economists that the growth rate in the US would slow to 2.7% Europe was forecasted to slip to 2%. I can only guess that the percentage decrease in the US projections was greater which is another way of saying that the US was doing better than Europe and will continue to do so next year.
But, the hapless AP hates the US so much, they misreport facts. That is why it is of critical importance to read the news with a critical eye or even research the data and facts yourself.
Here is a trick question: did we find WMD in Iraq?
And no, government should have no role in public health or disaster relief. The people in NO were told days in advance that Katrina was bearing down on them. The smart ones got in their cars and left. Okay, not everyone has cars so the government lined up busses in the poor neighborhoods. Some left but many stayed behind. Darwin at work.
There would be some temporary "structural" unemployment as government employees shift to private jobs but if I could get the average fed income tax rate down to 3%, do you realize the incredible impact that would have on our economy? It would zoom even more than it currently is. Taxes are a drag on the economy. We also would not need the IRS. There would be no complex laws no 10,000 pages of tax code or whatever it was. Three percent is deducted from each and every paycheck. Period. No deductions, no itemizations, nothing.
Here is an example of what tax cuts can do. After every tax cut implemented by our fed gov't, tax receipts increased! Increased. The dims talk about the "rich" paying their fair share. Before the Bush tax cuts, upper income earners paid an average of 35% of their income in taxes with a lower tax rate, they now pay 37%. Isn't that odd? It is because they are participating in a bigger economy and hence making more money and paying more taxes. Amazing isn't it.
And I am so sick of the liberal media smirking at how in the year 2045, China will be the world's largest economy. In 2005, the amount of growth of the US economy was greater than the entire Chinese economy. Moreover, the 2045 forecasts are based on extrapolation which means someone took China's current sustainable growth rate of 10% and did the math. The Chinese have not had yet to deal with the whacko environmental crowd. As China more fully participates in the world economy, rights will accrue to its citizens. It is inevitable. China will have to deal with that. Meanwhile, the US is doing fine, thank you.
I read an article by AP the other day, the headline of which was:
US economy to grow as Asia and Europe Predicted to do Well, or words to that effect.
Guess what? The headline writer lied! When I read the article, it was predicted, by non US economists that the growth rate in the US would slow to 2.7% Europe was forecasted to slip to 2%. I can only guess that the percentage decrease in the US projections was greater which is another way of saying that the US was doing better than Europe and will continue to do so next year.
But, the hapless AP hates the US so much, they misreport facts. That is why it is of critical importance to read the news with a critical eye or even research the data and facts yourself.
Here is a trick question: did we find WMD in Iraq?
And no, government should have no role in public health or disaster relief. The people in NO were told days in advance that Katrina was bearing down on them. The smart ones got in their cars and left. Okay, not everyone has cars so the government lined up busses in the poor neighborhoods. Some left but many stayed behind. Darwin at work.
The UN or some other worthless organization just completed a study and concluded that immigrants are better assimilated into American culture than any other country in the world. In Britain and France especially, immigrants are disenfranchised out of the mainstream. Remember all the riots and fires in Frahn-say? That is why. When they interview Arabs in Britain and Frahn-say, all I hear them do is complain. The largest concentration of Arabs in the US is in or near Detroit I believe and they are pro US. There has got to be a reason.
And BTW, the reason we have a service economy is simply because that is the next step in economic evolution. Mfg will naturally go to the counties whose citizens will assemble tv's for .50 per hour. The unions are killing mfg in this country.
Here is another pet peeve I have. I lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma for 12 years. Tulsa built its airport out in the middle of nowhere. As property values grew as did the population, many people built homes closer and closer to the airport. Then something happened. The airport wanted to add a new runway. Suddenly the airport made too much noise. It was disturbing people in their homes. Not only was the runway cancelled but the airport authority then had to invest in sound-proofing peoples' homes.
The city wanted to build a bypass on the south end of town. The south end was new but growing. The bypass, after careful environmental impact study, chose the route to disrupt the fewest frogs and unfortunately required the demolition of 7-10 houses. Those houses suddenly became family treasures containing all the memories and sentimental value a home only two years old can have. Many of those buyers already knew of the plan to build and bought the homes on spec only to require that they be compensated for their pain and suffering for losing the homestead.
Both those things really happened BTW. I was there.
Maybe everyone on some form of probation should be forced to listen to a little Kenny G
That would never happen in the USA. It would be considered "cruel and unusual punishment".
That would be cruel AND unusual.
This will surprise everyone but I believe in capital punishment. However, I think the crooks should be executed the same way that they killed their victims.
Remember the Olympic Park bomber here in Atlanta in 1996. His bomb drove nails into a woman and killed her. So, here's what we do. Strap a bomb to him with a timer he can look down and see. Set it for, say, 10 minutes. Give him some time to comtemplate life. Then, have the bomb not go off, merely make a loud click sound. The second time, okay send him to he!!.
I would not tell him that the thing strapped on his belly was a bomb nor that it contained nails.
Oh...that's okay then. I was afraid you might be guilty of abusive government.
I admit that I can get carried away.
For rapists, I have special punishment in mind. I would take them out to the woods, locate a tree stump and use a ten penny nail and nail their member to the stump. Then I would give them a gun with one bullet and a rusty, dull knife. They get to choose.
Then I would give them a gun with one bullet and a rusty, dull knife. They get to choose.
But what if he shoots YOU when you hand him the gun with the bullet? Not exactly a lot of career potential in the "gun-handing" job. Might make "gun-hander" recruitment a bit difficult.
But what if he shoots YOU when you hand him the gun with the bullet? Not exactly a lot of career potential in the "gun-handing" job. Might make "gun-hander" recruitment a bit difficult.
Come on my friend. You know me better than that. I forgot to mention that he would be tethered to the stump and the bullet just barely reachable after he stretched his arm for a few days, maybe even dislocate his shoulder to reach it. At that point, he is on his own. Not my problem. Of course, he would monitored in the event he made the "wrong decision".
It is not DOT approved. It weights about 7 lbs (it is steel underneath). If I ride for more than a few hundred Km's my neck compresses about an inch. The spike is not original. I wish I had the original. WW had a rare opportunity to buy a second one of these. She thought "what does he need two helmets for". I've never forgiven her for that. She regrets it too and has never forgiven herself either.
Good morning TKOers! We're on our way out to finish the little bits of shopping I need to. My oldest will come which will make it more festive. My other two can't find the spirit but they're lucky enough have been invited to a friend's house. Actually, it will cost me less to not bring them.
I delivered my "I'm disappointed you don't want to find the joy in the generosity of giving & doing for others" speech. Maybe next year. My youngest asked me if I was trying to make them feel guilty. Yeah, maybe a little.
I'll read up on all the government responsibility issues when I return.
Todd - I have worked for the gov for 28 years, and completely agree with you. When I interviewed for my current job, I told them my mission would be to change everything. Usually that would be a deal killer, but the Captain had final say.
In my 5 years, we went from 35 gov workers to 5. Everything is contracted out, and things have never been better. In fact, I've almost run myself out of a job.
Nams - I'm done shopping - my bank doesn't want me to spend anymore of my money.
Todd, are you seeking backers for your upcoming campaign? I follow your philosophy but can't visualize the chaos of transition. I am not surprised by your support of capital punishment...
I OTOH feel death is an easy option...we all know death is inevitable...think about it...even us as BS are good examples......when you are in limbo as BS wondering how your M is going to end up...or when you are waiting for the biopsy report...it is the waiting, the not knowing that tears you up...right? My youngest DD earned herself a spank but I made her wait until we got home to deliver...it was a 5 hour wait...she had to think about it the entire time, asked me several times to just do it and get it overwith...the spank wasn't bad at all compared to the waiting, worrying and imagining what it would be like... We as BS or those suffering from illness make choices to be happy during our waiting and we take measures to become happy.
People who have committed horrific crimes should not be spared the daily misery of having to face the consequences of thier reality, additionally regardless of how horrific the crime/s I personally believe all humans have the ability to reform given the appropriate supports and resources(except those with extreme psychiatric conditions). Now I don't think that these folks should be just lounging around...I believe they should have to work and contribute in some way to society...there are plenty of things that they could be doing that do not involve contact with other people...JMVHO
ToddAC politics got me off track of my original intent to post...THANK YOU Todd you are a wonderful form of therapy.
I started to post wanting to vent about how WH is making me mental by continuing to try and get some cake and by flaunting himself half naked in front of me to see if I will comment on how hot he looks (and he does)...I have resisted his mystical charm so far and will cut off all contact after Christmas cept for electronic. He is managing to sneak this stuff in during the pick-up drop off for kid visits...I will have to institute the "revolving door".
DD2 said this morning that if it came to her never seeing her dad again she would kill herself...we had a long talk where I explained that she would be able to see WH but once we move if WH doesn't move with us then visits would be infrequent but there would definitely be visits...she expressed her anger and stated that WH was in love with his job more than his kids...soooooooooo sad. She is seeing a school counselor but I think I may need to step it up to IC...she is my drama child as well. She is so on target though...she said, "It's dad's choice you know, he can choose us but he just loves his job and would never leave it for us...that is like a mind ding dong ditch..." Gotta love how kids think...she is right about the ding dong ditch...ultimately he is a big tease and the kids recognize it. I told her she needed to discuss this with her dad...she will, this child has no fear and hung up on him last week, told him he was rude and deserved it...did I mention she is 6???
Thanks for listening...I know that I am allowing him to [email]mind@#*![/email] me right now by not being completely dark...I totally understand why you stay dark...for yours and family's sanity and protection. 2007 will be the year of stealth for us until all the legalities are finalized and we relocate...I am marking the days. You would be proud though as so far I have baked lots of goodies, had all night game night with the kids, have had company, babysat neighbors kids.
Did I mention that I endured a lecture from another parent on how I need to be flexible and more giving at Christmas all stemming from the fact that I punished my child by bringing her friend home early b/c DD1 broke one of the house rules...yep, far be it from me to hold my children to their boundaries especially this close to Christmas...the parent even went as far as to tell me that my kids are under alot of stress without having their dad and that for this reason I need to be more flexible...I allowed this parent to complete their word vomit and after a long silence frankly informed them that I was being giving...I was giving my child morals, integrity and a taste of reality...consequences for defying boundaries...especially at Christmas and especially b/c no dad at home it is more important than ever for me to lovingly reinforce and maintain boundaries...they continued to vomit at which time I ended conversation and requested no further parenting advice unless requested.
People amaze me
BTW Pio, nice helmet...can I borrow it...I have a few ideas for the spike
"after a long silence frankly informed them that I was being giving...I was giving my child morals, integrity and a taste of reality...consequences for defying boundaries...especially at Christmas and especially b/c no dad at home it is more important than ever for me to lovingly reinforce and maintain boundaries.."
Thanks B, I was just chuckling at your alluding to the year you threw Christmas gifts to the street...I am sure I could easily do the same...restraining myself...WH asked me yesterday what I wanted for Christmas...I told him I already took care of it...he says, no I mean so that you have something from the kids...I repeated, I already took care of it since I knew that would be the only reason he wanted to get me anything...he then says, that isn't the reason, he wants to get me something...I replied, "something free and thoughtful" as if...
Sitting here listening to my Joe Cocker "Tribute to Christmas", I can't help thinking that nothing quite captures the spirit of the season like hard currency. Opportunity missed 2much...
This time of year is stressful for everyone, and when the marriage is in trouble, it just multiplies it.
We live on a corner, and I know everyone. I still can't belive that I threw everything (wrapped) out in the street. Afterwards I was mortified at my behavior. Now I look back and laugh - that is one Christmas that will be remembered.
Believer, I know I will do the same and at some point look back and laugh regardless of the outcome...I want the kids to be able to do the same without having huge scars...little character marks are ok but no huge scars please!
Pio, Timing is everything huh? Maybe I'll be a little quicker next time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
LAROUSSE, LAROUSSE, where are you...if I say the word TEQUILA will that bring you out of hiding????
Do we need to send in the TKO rescue team...I'm guessing Todd would not support that effort if it used TKO gov funds so we will have to solicit private funding for our search and recovery efforts...
LAROUSSE, come out, come out, where ever you are!!! Has the plumber abducted you???? Did we offend you? What's the deal????
If you are plan B'ing us you are an excellent dark one! Throw a dog a bone already!!! Oh well, you are missed
Although I have no business looking at the recovery forum, I did look at the thread. I think I am generally pretty honest with myself but this one doesn't strike me with any parallels. If you communicate with BigK in other manners, I think he has heard my feelings and, sorry but this is NOT one I choose to post here for the very reasons I have tried to explain to BigK.
I confess. I am a helpless man in a kitchen. I admit it. Pathetic. Very pathetic. I must stay out of the kitchen. I must order pizza and go to the deli and Mexican restaurant from now on. Do not let me back in the kitchen. I may burn this place down.
Well, there's a knock. Can only be the fire department.
This is slightly OT but I have felt compelled to post this for some time. Sorry. Through observations of my own situation and reading other threads, there is a commonality I have seen in many that has puzzled me. Esoteric as it many seem on the surface, it may, in fact, strike the very chord of my current struggle and my seemingly eternal debate with Todd. Roe v Wade, Scopes v Davey Jones and the Monkees, Harley v Pittman: all infamous debates – but this last one is the battleground of my soul.
Many people have said (I don’t include myself in that number) that Harley blames the BS for the A while Pittman blames the WS. I have never believed this to be the case. Even so, there is merit to the argument. Most of us that are in this process or even fully into recovery have stated at one time or another that they never believed they would be interested in remaining with an unfaithful spouse prior to the affair – and yet here we find ourselves. All of us here, by definition, have at one time been in the position to try to think the unthinkable. Some have succeeded and others have not yet we all have that one common link – we tried. So how did that happen? This is where I think the Harley genius lies. If I had picked up Pittman’s book first, I would easily be divorced by now. Don’t get me wrong – it can still happen – but it hasn’t yet. Harley is quite clever. He takes a new BS who is highly impressionable and, through total conflict avoidance, ignores the cause of the A and works toward resolution of the M. I don’t believe Harley goes much further than to say that no marriage is perfect. He simply guides us in a direction and starts us on a path before we have an opportunity to see things as they really are – that we have been betrayed by the one we love and even the Bible recognizes that as a very bad thing.
In reality the WS merits no love or sympathy. Plan A is bad enough - swallowing all your dignity for someone who does not love you and has hurt you so badly. Plan B is almost unthinkable – “hey go screw OP for a while and then come back when you come to your senses”. And yet we follow the plan without question. And the plan, in many cases, works. If someone would have told me prior to the A that was going to happen, I would have said they were insane. Harley gets us to this point. Harley forces us to reevaluate our entire belief system without even thinking about it. It may all be smoke and mirrors but it works.
I feel like I am on the back lot of my life. Just like a studio tour where you see what is really behind the façades of the buildings. I am now seeing what is behind my WW, my M and my life. It is not nearly as interesting as the movie.
This time, all our chef tried to do was open a jar of Bush's chili with no beans, of course, put it into a pan, turn on the heat and cook it for maybe five minutes. I started the electric stove, put the pan on and went back to the movie I was watching.
In a few minutes, I noticed smoke from the general direction of the stove. First, however, I noticed a very strong and putrid chemical smell.
I called GE product support to see what the heck had happened. They claim, (of course, they made the stove, so what are they going to say) that I was supposed to remove the Tupperware lid from the electric element first. Didn't sound right to me but what the heck, I turned it off and was going to remove the Tupperware lid, but it was gone.
It was about this time that the smoke alarm started blaring. I have to give the local fire department credit. There were here in no time. They were not happy so I tried to lighten things with some humor. They don't like fireman jokes. Oh well, live and learn.
After the FD left, the security guy showed up. He also was not amused. He said this was not the first time the FD had to come to my room. I don't remember the FD coming before. It must have been before I moved in. It was ugly.
I feel like I am on the back lot of my life. Just like a studio tour where you see what is really behind the façades of the buildings. I am now seeing what is behind my WW, my M and my life. It is not nearly as interesting as the movie.
Dear Pio, you do not give yourself enough credit...how can you say it is not interesting...you are an extremist but I thought you realized it...perhaps that is why you don't think it is interesting...your sitch and saga not to mention your crafty, sarcastic depiction is anything but uninteresting...all of what you posted with the cards, letters, WWF wrestling match at the copier...come on everyday is an adventure in the life of Pio and gemela...you make hamster repro into a hysterical adventure...sounds like you found out who the wizard is at oz
Pio - Interesting......... Of course we have to factor in that the MB crowd is already a skewed bunch. Pittman's statistics say that around half of the BS's DO look at infidelity as a deal-breaker. They just file for divorce. They don't bother googling marriage/infidelity.
Then there is a percentage that find this site, read here for awhile, and decide that we are all drinking the koolaid.
I read here for about 5 months before I posted, kind of just out of curiosity. When I saw marriages being saved, and people being happy, I started posting.
I'm a result focused person. What I've noticed is that even when the marriage is not saved, a huge percentage of the folks who post here go on to be content.
I am driving home for christmas Oh, I can't wait to see those faces I am driving home for christmas - yea Well I am moving down that line And it's been so long but I will be there I sing this song to pass the time away Driving in my car Driving home for christmas
It's gonna take some time, but I'll get there Top to toe in tailbacks Oh, I got red lights on the run But soon there'll be a freeway... Get my feet on holy ground
So I sing for you Though you can't hear me When I get through and feel you near me I am driving home for christmas Driving home for christmas With a thousand memories
I take look at the driver next to me He's just the same..... Just the same
Top to toe in tailbacks I got red lights on the run I'm driving home for christmas Get my feet on holy ground
So I sing for you Though you can't hear me When I get through and feel you near me Driving in my car Driving home for christmas
Driving home for christmas With a thousand memories I take look at the driver next to me He's just the same..... He's driving home Driving home Driving home for christmas
I quick hello to everybody....and then rushing off!
MERRY CHRISTMAS to those that 'celebrate' it...
Peace...and...Love...and...Hugs!
BBBRRRMMMMMMMMM!
P.S. I sure would like to know what the heck happened to Larousse...the nerve of her leaving us without saying at least goodbye...
(((((((((((((LAROUSSE)))))))))
Hope you are OK! ....left to our imagination....we go for the worst scenario....so....this is where the 'effort' comes in and so will try to imagine 'outside the box'.... you won a ticket to travel in a very exotic place, beaches and palms trees and room service, where there are no computers and you are living it up girl!
Todd...you might as well go and live at the Fire Station!
2much...I really like you're sense of humour..you really made me laugh!
BigK posting lyrics???
Believer...you were considering going to work in SA...are you?
Had a few invitations from friends...their way of wanting to keep me 'busy'! ...Hey.....I will take all the sympathy that comes my way...nothing beats good company and a good meal! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Can't say enough about how extraordinary you folks are...there are a number of positives that surface from the dung of the evil I...amongst them are you treasured friends and family that have listened to lots of rambling, moaning, tears and attempts at humor
to you: Pio, ToddAC, Big K, Luna, Larousse (where ever you are), Stph20, Believer, Cinderella, Beth, Nams, I wish peace, health, happiness and above all love
Make this Holiday season one to remember by creating spectacular memories that you will cherish for a lifetime...with or without our spouses we have the strength, power and free will to achieve these things with the help of God, hard work and friends like you guys
(((((((((((((((TKO)))))))))))))))))))) MERRY CHRISTMAS TKO FAMILY
Can't say enough about how extraordinary you folks are...there are a number of positives that surface from the dung of the evil I...amongst them are you treasured friends and family that have listened to lots of rambling, moaning, tears and attempts at humor
to you: Pio, ToddAC, Big K, Luna, Larousse (where ever you are), Stph20, Believer, Cinderella, Beth, Nams, I wish peace, health, happiness and above all love
Make this Holiday season one to remember by creating spectacular memories that you will cherish for a lifetime...with or without our spouses we have the strength, power and free will to achieve these things with the help of God, hard work and friends like you guys
(((((((((((((((TKO)))))))))))))))))))) MERRY CHRISTMAS TKO FAMILY
AMEN 2much.
I don't know, or want to think about, where I'd be without you guys for support, help, advice, support, laughter, tears, support and most of all, your friendship and love. I'm so lucky and blessed that I was able to find you guys when I needed you most. You were and are, my light at the end of the tunnel.
I never would have thought I could care about people I've never even met, or get to know them as well as I do!
I'm blessed to have each and every one of you in my life, as my friend and my family.
Merry Christmas guys. May God bless you all with everything you deserve and so much more. My love goes out to each and every one of you...can you feel it???
I've been worrying for some time about a thing and I think I have finally resolved it. DDs are learning about the environment in school and one of the results is that we are now heavy into recycling. Another is water conservation. The instructions on the recycling say ti wash out milk bottles and other plastic before putting it into the recycling bin. But that seems to waste water doesn't it? So which is more harmful - throwing the unrinsed plastic in the regular trash or wasting water to recycle it? This has caused me no end of stress. Well finally I came to resolution. I now place all my plastic bottles in the shower with me. That way they get rinsed, I don't waste water and I can recycle. The only down side is that it kind of puts a damper on urinating in the shower now...
"Make this Holiday season one to remember by creating spectacular memories that you will cherish for a lifetime..."
and..........
"Well finally I came to resolution. I now place all my plastic bottles in the shower with me. That way they get rinsed, I don't waste water and I can recycle. The only down side is that it kind of puts a damper on urinating in the shower now... "
As we race toward Christmas, please remember that there are soldiers from many nations assembled on battlefields. There is no lonelier place at Christmas than a battlefield far from home.
If you are traveling and see men and women in military uniform at the airport coffee shop, train station vending machines, gas stations – and if you can afford it – step in and buy their lunch, sandwich, coffee or gas. The smile you receive will be worth much more than your nominal investment. If you are financially unable to help, extend your hand and a voice of “thank you”. The gleam in their eyes will stay with you forever. Military personnel make abundant sacrifices; all they really expect in return is appreciation from the very people whose freedoms they serve to protect.
Ahhh Todd, you old softy. Thanks for posting this. I've been blessed to work with these men and women, and always welcome them home, and buy a lunch. The last one was with his dad, and I bought lunch for both of them.
Okay, have to confess that the lunch was only $6.00 (hospital cafeteria), but was one of the best $6.00 I ever spent. Dad was so happy and proud and surprised, that there was a lump in my throat.
I was in the military during the Vietnam war and there was almost no support for troops. I remember flying into Chicago and taking a train home. On the train were tons of college students going home for the holidays. I went from car to car looking for a seat and in every car, the students made fun of me. It was very disconcerting. I am happy that most in our country support the troops regardless of how they feel about the war.
I was in the military during the Vietnam war and there was almost no support for troops. I remember flying into Chicago and taking a train home. On the train were tons of college students going home for the holidays. I went from car to car looking for a seat and in every car, the students made fun of me. It was very disconcerting. I am happy that most in our country support the troops regardless of how they feel about the war.
That's awful to hear Todd. I'm so sorry that happened to you. It kills me the lack of respect people have for one another...even today. People enlist in the military voluntarily knowing what can happen. They put their lives at risk EVERY DAY for our safety and freedom. They deserve the utmost respect, IMO. I hate that they don't always get it.
Todd - I hope we have learned from Vietnam. I was against the war there, but supported the troops. However, I was just happy they were home. I think you are wrong in thinking that Americans didn't support the troops.
But we failed by not showing them. Won't do that again.
Ironically, I was against the war as well. But I performed my duty. And the college kids on the train called me a "baby killer". Did not feel good to come home to that.
Todd - I'm so sorry that happened. I remember those times, with MaiLai, fighting an unwinable war. It was a national disgrace how our returning soldiers were treated. I think most Americans want to do better.
I know Believer. That's what motivated me to post the bit about buying lunch for a soldier. It is a different time today. The wars we are fighting seem to be not popular but at least most Americans support the troops.
These men and women are our heroes. We can never forget that our country was built on the back of heroes.
Believer, don't you remember. The Vietnam war veterans were the first and only vets to come home to complete antipathy.
It took a terrible toll. It's never happened since. People may be against a war now but they appreciate what the fighting forces do for them.
We were visited yesterday by a very old g/f of my sons. She is in the army and has only been on a couple of tours - she's mainly in trades. She was a very troubled girl when my son met her and she lived with us for a couple of years - probably the happiest couple of years of her life.
I still maintain that most Americans supported the troops. I know because I protested against the war, out in the streets. I had people throw red paint (communist) at me and spit in my face.
My brother went to Vietmam. He was injured and came home with a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. He was also messed up just like you saw in the movies. I could not believe it. We grew up in the worst, meanest neighborhood you could imagine but the war still messed him up.
I visited him many years ago and found the Bronze Star and Purple Heart in the trash. I retrieved it and have been saving it for when he comes around. It has been well over thirty years and he still cannot talk about it.
The only thing he has ever said to me about the Vietnam War is that everybody hated him when he came home.
I hope our society learned the lessons those decades ago.
B, of course I don't know what it was like in America. I only know what I saw on TV.
But that's what I mean, the vets were the first vets from a war to meet with total disregard and to be ignored. No one knew what the physcological toll would be and stil continues to be.
NZ was there but we weren't drafted like the Australians and everyone else. It was volunteer regular army that was there.
Weren't they dark days? I was 16 and then 17 and remember it so well.
Todd - My fiance was killed in the Vietnam war. It was very sad. After we were notified that he died, I kept getting letters from him - for at least 2 weeks. In the last one, he asked me to send him some canned peaches. Such a small request..............
Can't remember when the war there started, but I was in highschool. I volunteered at the USO, dancing with the soldiers that were on the way to Vietnam. There were busloads and busloads.
They were very dark days. I recall Joan Baez, a folk singer, saying that we should strum our guitars on the beach and greet the enemy with love and harmony. Yep, just before they kill you.
All the soldiers really want is to come home and be appreciated.
Todd, people know this now. That whatever the cause of the war or whatever people think of it, the people who give their all for it are worth acknowledging.
Vietnam was a hard lesson but it taught people a lot.
B, we are a truly recovered couple. Just go and read Idiotville. Christmas Day (today here) was a happy and wonderful family day with Rob and I working together as a well oiled team.
Infidelity is a memory - a distant memory. I feel so sad for everyone here who is still suffering. It breaks my heart.
WH tearily states he loves me and is attracted to me and would like to come home but is afraid...feels he has damaged me so much that I will never be able to forgive and will constantly throw his past actions back at him; also afraid of giving up his new success and $ to relocate with us only to discover that "nothing has changed and we go back to our old ways" or he "messes up and gets kicked back out"
WH says he is also afraid he will not live up to my conditions and expectations...I state I will do the best I can to be best wife but cannot make any other promises except that I will commit 100% to M if he does same
WH discovered my self-help divorce library and was "thrown"...we calmly discussed all of this and I let him know I was prepping for D as he has avoided all discussion related to future, M, R, D anything...I told him that despite the mess, I did love him but would be able to move on without him if he chooses to remain without us but would need to have NC with him to preserve my sanity...we talked about how any contact puts me back to day one and opens a fresh wound and is emotionally unhealthy...he was very understanding and apologetic...actually caught a glimpse of real remorse, shame and sorrow
WH says he wants to rush and pack everything and move back but is terrified to make the leap and says he knows what he wants but doesn't know how to get there...I listened calmly...I think I finally found peace in that it will be ok either way...it is very sad but true...it sort of was like a calmness came over me and what I had been telling myself all along I finally actually felt it...
Anyway, WH has to commit to something in the next week due to work and residence sitch...he left tonight and I smiled and said, "Well, I guess I'll find out one way or another what your decision is by next week...then I calmly told him that it would be ok if he chose not to come back...he was crying and saying he loves me...I told him that doesn't really change anything if he choses to remain WH...he agreed and left. He's called 3 times since...I know he is torn but it's all on him...
I am where Pio was a while back...I could easily go either direction...D would be much easier at this point as my children are prepped, the paperwork is prepped and I have planned everything as if it is inevitable anyway...WH even commented that he sensed that I was as ambivelent as he to commit to his coming home...we discussed that the real risk and damage would be to the kids since they are at this point he could not see them ever having to go through this again...I agreed and told him he would need to decide if we were worth the risk to fight for M, no one could make that decision for him
WH was extremely tender and affectionate past 48hrs which is unusual...my gut says he is grieving his loss and has come to terms with terminating M...when I tactfully stated this observation he tearfully denied this was the case...
He knows he is welcome back but that I will hold him to return conditions and expect 100% mutual committment to M...
I will be away for a week, not sure how much I'll be able to post but will be reading...won't be back till 2007 so Happy Happy New Year to all
I am glad you are finally starting to sense some peace. I have to warn you though that this will be a very difficult time for you as it was and is for me. I am okay with a lot of what WH says until he gets to the point where he comments that he will have to wait until next week for your decision. Why? I thought he was the one being indecisive and couldn't make up his mind and then he suddenly throws it all back on you? So it's still your fault I guess? This is why NC is and continues to be so important. He needs to stop being able to test the waters.
So he is afraid to give up $ and success for his wife and family? We all have to have our priorities I guess. I think he measures success by the wrong rule. What does it profit a man? etc. etc.
Pepperband made a comment in a thread the other day about how a panicked BS is terribly unattractive to a WS. I tend to think the opposite is also true. A resolute BS seems to be very attractive to a WS for reasons I don't understand. I think you represent the guidepost if nothing else. You are the known quantity. You are base in his game of OW tag. That's okay though. I think that is why many WS's come back to the M - fear.
The only thing I would watch out for is whether he tries to drag the kids into the equation - plays on their emotions to try to convince you. If he does that, cap him with your 9mm.
Don't let the warm fuzzy Christmas spirit influence you.
What I keep coming back to in your case is that you WH is a serial cheater who started his cheating mere months into your marriage.
He has consistently shown his concern for himself above you & your children with this time being no different. He sees you as moving on & he's afraid for himself. I don't think fear is a good predictor of his commitment to do the necessary work to recover your M.
Don't disregard what you know about his behavior with you as well as with his many OW.
I'm sorry for the hurt this may cause you but I felt I needed to say what I saw in his words.
Well I bet I'm the only one of us who spent Christmas day mixing 2 large bags of concrete by hand to make a tetherball pole.
I do have to say though that I found quite by accident a shop in Khobar that sells every single kind of bolt, screw and fastener known to mankind in every single size - both English and metric. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I drooled on my sweatshirt. I was like Homer Simpson opening a fridge full of Duff beer. It is called Al Wabel Trading on the corner of 6th and Prince Mohd. I'm not sure but I think I may have cried tears of pure joy. I'm now planning a vacation there in the spring.
My boys are with their dad. It's quite...and lonely.
They don't want to be there all week & I don't want them to be there either. They says ex's house is boring, he's a neat freak & wants things to be too quite, plus he wouldn't take the dog because she sheds too much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He usually takes her when he takes the boys & they love it, plus I think it's great for them to have that continuity.
I'll have to keep myself busy. I'm one of two featured artists at the gallery in Aug. so I can use this time to get some work done.
You know those times when you get hit with the fact kids aren't with you forever? I got that this evening & it was sad, teary actually.
I wonder if ex ever feels a loss at breaking up the family. I doubt the boys are subtle about the fact they would rather spend some time here over the vacation too. Guess that's a bonus.
ex & I bought gifts together for the boys & he emailed me saying he thought it set a good example. I didn't respond...but I wanted to...in a not so nice way, I just didn't see the point in a rant.
Back to my book. I'm in my jammies, got the fire going & will have a glass of one of my favorite red wines soon. Life isn't too bad is it?
Can somebody please help? I turned on the stove to cook dinner and smoke started coming off the burner. I don't know what caused the smoke. I tried to clean it but it still smokes. What is a good way to clean the burner so that it doesn't smoke?
Even hard-wired smoke detectors can be unplugged. Usually what gets on burners that is flammable and remains on burners is some form of grease/oil or other long chain aliphatic hyrocarbon molecule. If it is melted plastic, either burn it off or buy new elements (cheap at the hardware store). To burn off plastic, remove the element, take it outside and use a propane torch or other really good heat source and burn away. It it was just oil or grease, nothing beats soap and water (not detergent BTW). Soaps are very interetsing chemically. They do NOT clean dirt but they are perfect for oil and the like.
Two of my plastic serving spoons fell into the bottom of the dishwasher on christmas day and landed against the element. It wasn't till we smelled the terrible smell that we knew what had happened.
They're probably highly toxic fumes they gave off.
I thought you mentioned a few days ago that you had failed to remove some plastic covers prior to turning on the heat. That is one method that comes to mind. I admit I have never seen plastic covers for a stove because it just seems like such a terribly bad idea. But plastic wrap can fall on a burner by accident. Some people accidentally leave things on the stove and turn on the wrong burner. WW does this a lot. I have a rule against ANYTHING being "left" on the stove. Rules are made to be broken I guess.
Brillo would not be my first choice for scrubbing. I would have gone with something much softer. If you look at the surface of a burner element, it is not smooth. Things hide down in the grooves and brillo would not help much.
No Stph you have no idea what he means. This has become so surreal and bizarre that I'm not even sure it's happening.
I asked Todd, by email, to tell Pio that I found him interesting and funny and asked whether Pio found me interesting and funny. I don't know how Todd worded that but it obviously came out as "I fancy Pio." It was a silly thing to ask, I just thought it would be misconstrued if I put it on here.
Nothing could be further from what I feel. I have always hoped that Pio and Gemela would find happiness. I have spoken to them both and I just hoped they would both reach the happiness Rob and I have.
Stph, this all started when I was attempting to give you my opinion. Something about the way I said that got everyone's panties in a wad.
I AM NOT A WW. I am a happily married woman in love with my husband. I haven't given the OM a second thought since APRIL OF THIS YEAR. You could all do well to reach the stage I'm at. Sheesh, this is just absolutely bizarre.
No Stph you have no idea what he means. This has become so surreal and bizarre that I'm not even sure it's happening.
I asked Todd, by email, to tell Pio that I found him interesting and funny and asked whether Pio found me interesting and funny. I don't know how Todd worded that but it obviously came out as "I fancy Pio." It was a silly thing to ask, I just thought it would be misconstrued if I put it on here.
Nothing could be further from what I feel. I have always hoped that Pio and Gemela would find happiness. I have spoken to them both and I just hoped they would both reach the happiness Rob and I have.
Stph, this all started when I was attempting to give you my opinion. Something about the way I said that got everyone's panties in a wad.
I AM NOT A WW. I am a happily married woman in love with my husband. I haven't given the OM a second thought since APRIL OF THIS YEAR. You could all do well to reach the stage I'm at. Sheesh, this is just absolutely bizarre.
Well I would so hate for this to get edited or deleted in the cold light of day.
This is NOT good for Todd and Pio. And I don't want them not posting. They both need to be here and they don't need to be any further upset. Neither do the rest of us for that matter.
I'm glad you think you're so happy in your marriage, but most of us on TKO are not so happy. That's why we come here...to get some peace and happiness for a while.
This does not help.
Listen to BigK. He knows what he's talking about. More than you know. And he is for real. I can tell you that much. He doesn't mess around.
FWIW, and I know you're all far too busy casting aspersions at me and thinking things up about me that are completely untrue, Todd is in a bad way. His son is taking him to the ER.
For personal reasons, I think I need to stop posting here. If you need me, I'm on email.
Sorry to hear this Pio. We all really appreciate your input all around...you're very insightful, witty, creative, sensitive...just to name a few...and not having you around would be a major loss...please reconsider...
...one thing is for sure, know that we all care very very much for you...and we know that this is a very difficult and challenging time in your life, as it is for many of us...if there is anyway anyone of us could help, be sure to let us know!
I started getting very confused yesterday and it got really bad last night. I have gone over the posts and emails and wow, it is really weird. I received an email from Pio and didn't know who he was. I either called my son or he called me and I told him what was going on.
Anyway, long night in ER but they found the problem.
I'm glad to hear (read) that you sought help and identified the problem Todd. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I stayed up late last night praying for you (and others who are having difficulty) while watching for an update post from you. I wanted you to know that because I'm certain that I was not the only one.
We never really know how many people care about us or how much they care about us, do we? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am not sure that I indentified the problem. I had a couple of emails and didn't know who the senders were. They helped me to see that something was wrong.
Thanks Nams,
it was one of my hormones which was very very low. It causes mental confusion and concentration problems. They pumped me up with it and that helped. Still not 100% but will get there.
I hope that you don't mind a take-it-or-leave-it (as you see fit) suggestion......
For now, maybe keep your communications on board (not private email). People who regularly post to this thread can help intervene on your behalf if someone else's issues are causing you turmoil or harm (even if they don't realize it). People who regularly post to this thread might also be able to see subtle things that could give you a heads up that professional intervention is in order sooner than you would be able to see it yourself.
Dearest Todd I was distressed to discover you were having complications causing you more ER visits...I am so sorry for your pain and confusion...at least you have a physiologic reason:) I wish I could say the same for others!!!! I'm glad they figured out your metabolic imbalance and fixed it for the time being...don't you have routine labs drawn for them to keep track of these things? Is this something that you can monitor for early s/sx now that you have experienced this? Wow, I hate this for you...so what is the positive that came out of this??? There must be one at least?
Wish I could do more than virtually hug and comfort you...my thoughts and prayers are with you. Don't know if you are familiar with Ray Boltz but his song "Thank You" is one of my favorites and I truly believe you will be one of these referenced people that has made a lifelong positive impression that helped mold and shape others (like the Sunday school teacher etc). I'm sure you have also made quite an impression with your political views, philosophies and strategies:)
Hang in there and know that there are way more people than TKO thinking and praying for you Todd...we all luv ya and look forward and depend on your warped humor
I do have labs reguarly but I am behind. My oldest son does most of the taking me to the doc, etc and his back has been out for some time. Plus, this particular hormone has been chronically low and I had messed up on my dose and skipped many doses as well.
Desmopressin is a chemical that is similar to a hormone found naturally in your body, brand name also called stimate. If you were on it then it would explain some of the symptoms. Just curious
I hope that you all had a wonderful Christmas. Mine was everything I dreamt of and more, so I am very lucky.
But today I am writing to say I will be gone for awhile. I am not too sure when I will return. I discovered a lump in my breast just before Christmas. I am being admitted tomorrow with the unknown ahead of me. I am sure all will be fine.
I just wanted to wish you all a very happy New Year. I hope that 2007 will be a great year for everyone. I hope it brings happiness, joy and peace into our homes.
You have such an awesome outlook on life, I know this will be a terrifying time for you and my thoughts and prayers are with you.
The unknown is always the most frightening...it is time to take care of Beth and let the cards fall where they may for now...let your WH take care of the kids for a while and let others take care of you, dote on you and do for you until you recover from whatever it is that lies in your path.
You are a strong woman Beth, you are smart, hardworking, savvy, sensitive and have a heart of gold...this will be but another notch in your belt.
I am not trying to minimize your sitch but maximize your capability to overcome this challenge. We are all in your cheering section...when the going gets rough just think of the TKO section chanting for you..."you can do this Beth, you can make this hurdle"...we'll be all holding your virtual hand and giving you whatever support we can. We luv ya Beth. God Bless
I had planned on being in bed by this time but sleep is hard to come by tonight. I wish I had you all here with me and we could chat the night away.
You are all so delightful and your messages gladdened my heart and made me cry. Thank you to Nams, BigK, Steph, Todd, 2much(your post made me sob!) Kiwi and Johnstwin for your kind offer to email and your best wishes. I am very lucky to have such wonderful people in my life. Thank you.
My WH has moved back into the family home to take care of the boys, so I know they will be well cared for. Of course I do hope to be out of hospital in a day!
My biggest problem at the moment is that my girlfriend that was going to bring my youngest son home from school for me has just let me down. I am totally shocked that she would cancel out on me at this late stage. I have helped this lady so many, many times and this once I need her help this happens. How do people do that? I know there are givers and takers in this world and I guess she is a taker. It has upset me to discover this flaw in her at this time. Guess I had never tested her before. My WH has told me he will work it out, guess I can't do anything else now.
Ah see I needed to vent! Don't be a TAKER - share the load and give when you can. It makes the world a far nicer place for us all.
Anyway, thanks for listening to my nerves chatter away to you. If I'm going to be gone too long I will get my girlfriend to do a post to let you know what happens. But, I'll see you Saturday.
I know you're unlikely to see this before you're off to the hospital but know we are all thinking of you & wish you the best possible outcome.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend letting you down at this stressful time. As you know, I've had a friend let me down recently too. The good news is now you know her better, she has shown you a truer, more complete picture of herself. Not a good one, but now you know.
How did you make out with the terrible weather down south over the last week?
Here in CT we've had mild temps which pleases me to no end. I hate to shovel the snow & I'm happy not to pay a gazzillion dollars to heat my house.
I dropped my glasses in the driveway then proceeded to step on them for a day or more. I don't think I ran them over. I'm headed to the optometrist to see if they can be fixed.
Weather? We didn't have bad weather here. Must have been west or north of here. We have had a very mild, peaceful late fall/winter. This week, it is mid 60's and sunny.
I'm home waiting for UPS to deliver the xbox 360 which we sent out for repair a couple of weeks ago. That in and of itself irritates me but I'm taking a deep breath...letting it out slowly...breath in...out...
Slow news day?
I hope to hear good news from Beth.
Todd, are you well?
Pio, do you want to share any Christmas stories about your girls?
Beth gave me her password etc. and asked me to post on her behalf. My name is Liz and I am her best friend and business partner. Well I like to consider myself her best friend and hope she agrees.
Must admit I have been here for hours reading and struggling to find my way around. This is not as easy as it appears. I have lost my post several times so they maybe printed all over this site ??? I am so sorry for the heartbreak I have been reading, I had no idea Beth had so much company.
I see Beth has been her normal dearest self and down played the seriousness of her hospitalization. She has had a double mastectomy; it is not a new cancer but a spread from the original site. You can probably imagine our feelings.
The last couple of days have been very hard on her but this morning she seems to be doing better. She has seen her sons and that cheered her. One comment to them was that she would no longer put bumps in their wetsuits when she borrows them! I guess you have to know Beth to appreciate her strength and humor.
I don't know when she will be back with you; she has a long road ahead of her, but if anyone can walk it, it is Beth. I know she cares a lot about the people on this site and wanted me to wish everyone a Happy New Year.
I will print any replies that come in and take them to her.
I am sorry if this is a bit stilted but I didn't think this would be so hard to write. Beth is like a sister to me and I am feeding from her strength. Her positive outlook and faith will get her through. It has to.
Thanks for the update....Liz 'on behalf of Beth'...
Quote
She has had a double mastectomy
Can't believe the lengths Beth is taking to 'keep TKO informed'!
Be sure to tell her how much we appreciate it...inspite of all she is going through! ....she remains true to herself.... a real 'softy'.....
Guess you figured by now that.....absences from our regulars are 'worrisome' for many of us here... seeing the measures Beth is taking!
...I have been 'away' for a few days as well.... holidays are good for BS's to hit some bumps....nothing compared to Beth's, though!
...so...TKO...let just say 'for the record'....I am... SURVIVING!
LIZ..... would you please inform our dear Beth.... (don't believe I have shared this before with my TKO bunch).....
...that my mother, whom I adore...cherish....love...model myself after...and am proud to know.....and privileged to be her daughter.....
is also a cancer survivor...breast cancer survivor.... having had a drastic/evasive mastectomy....because....get this.... it was the only option she had....50 years ago!
....and I believe the experience for my mom took her exactly where it's taking Beth.....to appreciate life MORE and ENJOY every moment she has! ....as you can imagine...50 years ago...the probabilities were 50/50 she would survive.....like...a yes/no..... and nothing in between! ... no follow-up treatments like radio..chemo... were available!
....and she is a true inspiration...as is Beth...her attitude will take a long way!
((((((((((((((((((((BETH))))))))))))))
Liz....FYO....the above are 'cyberhugs'...
and thank you for being such a 'friend' to Beth and taking the time to figure your way in the MB maze to find us....
(((((((((((((((LIZ))))))))))))))))))))
...as you can see....we can be very generous in the 'hugs' department!
Thank you Liz for taking the time to tell us of Beth's condition. Since you will be printing this out I'll say this directly to Beth.
Dear Beth,
I'm so, so sorry to read the news of your surgery. To go from your wonderful Christmas to this in such a short time must be heartbreaking. {{{Beth}}}
I've been thinking of you over the past couple of days always hoping for a different outcome. You've been so positive & upbeat I expected you to sit back down at your computer to tell us all was well.
Thank you for being so thoughtful by having your friend post about you. Of course you knew we'd be checking in for word on your condition.
I wish there was something I could say or do to be of help.
Know you & your boys are in my thoughts. Please keep your sweetness & positive attitude & come back soon.
What's going on with everybody??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I can only hope that the holidays have everyone preoccupied.
I miss you all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Beth, I'm so sorry for what you've had to endure. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your sons. I know you will beat this and be stronger than ever. If you are ever feeling alone...please remember I am thinking of you! I wish there was more I could do....if there is, please let me know, you have my email address. My heart goes out to you. But you'll be fine. You are a very strong woman.
Liz, thank you for the update and please keep us informed.
As for everyone else, it's time to come back to TKO and banter like the good ole days! Y'all wouldn't let me leave when I wanted to and I'm not letting anyone leave either.
I'll make the same bargain Pio and Todd did...if the old group is not back here within 5 days (it's already been way too long), I am leaving too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
THIS MEANS YOU!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I hope that everyones burdens are a bit lighter in 2007 or that we all find additional strength and faith for them to seem lighter. I listened to a program today that focused on how we should delight in our struggles knowing that it is the Good Lord nudging us and awakening us to be more aware of our need for him...we should be bothered if we are not experiencing burdens and challenges. I'm waving my white flag at him as we cyberchat!!! I know anything is possible with him, so regardless or your religious orientation, I am praying for all my TKO family to find renewed faith, strength and love to do his will in 2007 and be our best! I thank you all for you ongoing love and support.
Beth,
You know the drill, I don't think it gets any easier but you know what to expect. Grieve your loss, it is huge...cry, rant, rave, heal, laugh and live. Let us be with you as support in your journey. I'm sure Todd and Pio will distract you from your daily angst once they themselves return. My heart hurts for you Beth. Why you are where you are now is impossible to know. Just take each moment as it comes...let your family and friends be there for you and don't push yourself too hard too fast, take time to move through the process and heal. I will be thinking and praying for you and your family. Liz, thanks a million for posting to keep us informed...hugz for you all!
Todd, What the heck. Are you on MB vacation or are you having complications again? Please post to let us know...I am worried about ya superman!
Stph, Luna and Nams, Missed you all. Was out of town and had no cyberconnection:(. Sounds like everyone is making it one way or another. Nams, the whole eyeglass thing is sooooo something that would happen to me. Wish I had some funny drama for you all to lift you up and make you smile but surprisingly my trip was pretty smooth.
I can't remember if I updated you all prior to my departure so I need to go back and check.
Big K...hugz
Pio...Pio...Pio...have you gone to visit Larousse or what????
He has consistently shown his concern for himself above you & your children with this time being no different. He sees you as moving on & he's afraid for himself. I don't think fear is a good predictor of his commitment to do the necessary work to recover your M.
Don't disregard what you know about his behavior with you as well as with his many OW.
I'm sorry for the hurt this may cause you but I felt I needed to say what I saw in his words.
Nams and BK you were not harsh...just realistic
WH was full of bologna!!! Wanted to try month by month if moved back in without any commitment or agreement to dealbreakers...NO-GO
WH still "confused" so I cleared it up for him...plan D ASAP; he "states" he will sign legal docs when ready; he admits this is all about him; he obviously has thrown myself and his precious children to the wayside; I will be moving on
Will be moving full steam ahead with my original plans...
I want you all to know that I love each and every one of you. I wish you all faith, peace and most of all love in 2007 and beyond.
You have become my family and I wish all of you all the best.
{{{{{2much}}}}} I'm so sorry 2much. Please come lean on us when you need to. We're always here to listen and support, just as you do with so many of us.
Had a few bumps over the holidays....you can find details on my thread...and it's the same old story...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...
.....but I ended it well...yesterday went out of the city with a couple of friends and explored the countryside..... visited a very beautiful monastery overlooking a lake....and last night invited same friends to share supper together and just thoroughly enjoyed ourselves and covered a lot of 'conversational ground'....
Today the boys will be back...and am so looking forward to seeing them.... a week NOT working and not seeing them goes by much much slower than a week working and not seeing them... they will be literally showered with hugs! ...you bet!
Glad to see you had yourself a cozy time, you deserve it. I have been keeping up with your thread and it breaks my heart to see the raw pain and emotion even after 2 years.
My WH is just a plain goof and still keeps calling and coming around visiting kids, eating and acting as if all is good with the world. I have decided to act like myself, detach emotionally and move along...if he wants to visit etc he can I am just not taking the bait and giving him the power to manipulate me anymore. He actually calls and vents his frustrations to me...even went as far as to say his being miserable was due to his sitch with me and missing the kids etc and it was affecting his attitude at work and his productivity. I LOL and reminded him that this was the supposed "job" that he wanted so much he was willing to sacrifice his family for...he laughed and was like, "oh yeah, guess I shouldn't really be complaining to you". I swear he is so wrapped up in himself that he has no clue what goes on outside his fantasy world nor does he care unless it causes him direct pain. I think I am going to start giving him a dose of his own poop and start complaining to him about how hard it is to be a deserted wife and how I can't wait to relocate so that things will be easier for me and the kids etc. LOL...I have the power!!!
I admire your endurance and integrity in continuing to take the high road Luna. I hate to see you so sad...I have to say that your friends deserve your WH's company if they can't see that it was poor judgement to invite WH and OW with boys...I've made it clear to my WH that he is not to bring my kids around any of his OWs or any friends that quitely supported him in his WS tactics...thing is they lie so much we have no idea what kind of concocted stories they have fed the rest of the world to feel sorry for them and accept thier wayward circumstances.
Stph, Happy New Year. What's up with you? I haven't seen your thread lately...any new happenings? If so, I'll go back and read.
Gotta run before my hair falls out...color on it for past 60min...I forgot the time!!!! Tough work staying beautiful:)
Well I can only speak for myself but I at least do sleep sometimes.
For those worried about Todd, he has a thread on **** oh screw it. email me if you wanna know ****. It has dropped onto Page 2 now. To be honest I'm not sure what to make of it. He seems very well to me.
Then why isn't Todd here?...he should know we're all worried about him and at least grace us with a post to let us know he's OK. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
luna-I'm glad to see you're holding up OK. It sounds like you had a wonderful time with your friends!
2much-I am currently confused about Plan A and the 180's and what exactly I need to be doing. WH seems to be coming around more, so I'm thankful for that. We had to go to a wedding Saturday night and we started talking about our own wedding, which was beautiful...he may have gotten a clue. He told me that night, in passing, that he was still in love with me and he's sorry he's been such an idiot lately (a lot of arguing going on this past week). He's been much better since then though.
I had to go into work for an hour or so today and he even told me that he didn't want me to go!! I haven't heard anything like that from him in MONTHS.
I told him this morning that as soon as OW left, I wanted him to come and tell me and we were going to go get him a new cell phone and a new number. He said OK, no argument or anything. I did tell him he didn't have a choice though!
How are you holding up?
I haven't updated my thread in a couple of days, so I don't think you're missing too much. Thanks for asking though!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Folks, I apologize for not posting. My WW has discovered my MB presence and posts. I feel very weird posting here under those circumstances. Yes, most of my posts are fun oriented, but I have always considered this site to be my safe haven. Unfortunately, MB/TKO is no longer. I had thought about asking the mods to change my screen name but I post almost exclusively on TKO so it would not take much for her to recognize me.
I am not sure what to do about it except stop posting here.
Well, keep in mind that anything that anyone writes on this thread will be read by her, so I am not sure how to go about it. Sometimes MB seems really big but if you think about it, there are only a handful of infidelity forums. And assuming another thread is created to replace TKO, it would be very popular which would keep the new tko near the top and easily detectable.
I'm glad to hear that things are going a little better. My WW and I have had a pretty good holiday break as well. No SF, but I did get a kiss on New Years Eve. I noticed you have added to your signature that you live on the East Side. Did you do anythings special for NYE? My WW and I partied along Washington Avenue with a friend of mine. Have you been down there? It is a pretty cool stretch of a few blocks with a lot of night life. Downtown St. Charles is pretty cool too. I prefer Washington Avenue, but I only have to walk 3 blocks to get to the bars in downtown St. Chuck. Here's to a new year with new hope.
stph, I do not know. She is computer savy but not that much into the internet. I assume it had to be one of her two best friends. Both are very savy with the web. Her best friend is extremely intelligent and very logical/analytical in her approach. Think about it: if you were looking for someone on MB, you go to Infidelity and there are five categories I believe. Look at the number of threads and posts and it will quickly show that GQII is where the action is. She has been BF with my wife for a long time so she knows the whole story. It would take time but after a while, you just keep narrowing it down.
I'm glad to hear that things are going a little better. My WW and I have had a pretty good holiday break as well. No SF, but I did get a kiss on New Years Eve. I noticed you have added to your signature that you live on the East Side. Did you do anythings special for NYE? My WW and I partied along Washington Avenue with a friend of mine. Have you been down there? It is a pretty cool stretch of a few blocks with a lot of night life. Downtown St. Charles is pretty cool too. I prefer Washington Avenue, but I only have to walk 3 blocks to get to the bars in downtown St. Chuck. Here's to a new year with new hope.
Hi Jim
Thanks for checking on me...WH and I stayed home on NYE. We kissed at midnight and went to bed!! I don't like being out on NYE...too many drunks out. I live in Belleville...which part of St. Louis are you? To be honest, St. Louis, as well as other big cities freak me out, so I don't go much. I really need to get out more!
I'm just now starting to read your thread (forgive me!!). I hope to finish it tonight so I know what's going on with you!
Well, considering I said that I only needed to walk 3 blocks to get to downtown St. Charles, I probably don't live to far from there.
My WW works with a girl from Belleville, and she recently went to her wedding. She is about your age. I was wondering if you might know her. Shoot, I can't think of her last name or her husbands name. Her name is Julie and I think her husband's name is...maybe, Jeff. He has a funny last name. They are HUGE Cardinals fans and had a lot of Cards stuff at the reception. I think the wedding was on 11/4. I'll talk to my WW and find out what their last name is.
I remember now, it is Julie and Kris Ninnus (sp?). The only reason I didn't go to the wedding was because I had just recently exposed and my WW didn't want to be around me at all. Julie has met me and she knows OM because they all used to work together.
Well, considering I said that I only needed to walk 3 blocks to get to downtown St. Charles, I probably don't live to far from there.
Missed this in your post.
Quote
My WW works with a girl from Belleville, and she recently went to her wedding. She is about your age. I was wondering if you might know her. Shoot, I can't think of her last name or her husbands name. Her name is Julie and I think her husband's name is...maybe, Jeff. He has a funny last name. They are HUGE Cardinals fans and had a lot of Cards stuff at the reception. I think the wedding was on 11/4. I'll talk to my WW and find out what their last name is.
I think I am going to start giving him a dose of his own poop and start complaining to him about how hard it is to be a deserted wife and how I can't wait to relocate so that things will be easier for me and the kids etc. LOL...I have the power!!!
Orchid would be proud of you!
Quote
thing is they lie so much we have no idea what kind of concocted stories they have fed the rest of the world to feel sorry for them and accept thier wayward circumstances.
..as long as they are wayward....you can bet on that!
...but it sounds like you have got a good attitude going there....keep it up!
Todd....it may not be such a bad thing...LOL....is there anything you would like to tell your WW?
An idea to consider, even if temporary....is to start off a group email...you already have a few on hand....where send/reply is continual to a group....
Todd....it may not be such a bad thing...LOL....is there anything you would like to tell your WW?
An idea to consider, even if temporary....is to start off a group email...you already have a few on hand....where send/reply is continual to a group....
What has become of the TKO fam??? Are the threadmaster's plan B'ing us? Is it a dissolution of TKO??? Am I talking to myself???
Talk about a dark plan B...hhhmmmmm
Well, I was just looking for a little diversion from reality and thought perhaps I could elicit a response from the wayward TKO'ers who must be getting their ENs met somewhere else <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Check back later to see if this corpse has any life left or if rigor mortis has set in <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Ya'll have great taste...Cinema Paradiso is my all time fav movie since I first discovered it in 1993...I watch it annually just for the romance factor! That little boy is the most darling mischevious thing...my youngest is the female version of that child...quite a handful.
As for Will Smith...I saw Pursuit of Happyness over the Christmas break and it was excellent but definitely not a "feel good" movie...there were points were I could barely look at the screen for my discomfort and relating to how real the movie was...sad but true. His son is ADORABLE!
Glad you are keeping TKO alive...I think we have all hit some big hurdles/bumps etc
My boys saw Pursuit of Happiness & said they loved it & I MUST see it. I know that I will feel the same discomfort you did 2much & just not be able to to watch.
How about books? Anyone have any good suggestions? Here's my list of the latest books I've read & liked.
John Irving - When I Find You Tracy Chevalier - Girl With the Pearl Earring. I like all her books. Michael Connelly - The Closers Phillip Margolin - Lostlake this one has infidelity in it
The Fingersmith - written by a British woman, the name escapes me. Anne Tyler - I like all her books.
How nice for you & your W BigK. I hope you enjoy yourselves here. Despite its contrived nature I really like Disney World. You're going to Washington D.C.? If so, you just might see the cherry blossoms. The weather here has been warm & some spring blooming trees are already blooming.
Judith Michael writes wonderful books, IMO. I can't think of the title of one right now, but the follow up to it is called A Tangled Web . Both books are fabulous.
I love to read but I don't really have a favorite author. I like Fern Michaels as well.
Nicholas Sparks writes awesome books, but beware, they are ALL tear jerkers!
Nams and Stph...I have been an avid reader forever but since the kids activities have increased with age and b/c I am reading tons of academia for grad school I have almost no time for pleasure reading. I am currently hooked on the Left Behind Series (LaHaye) on book 6. I read 2 books each quarter break. My mom tried to get me to read Marley and Me (I am a lab owner/lover) but I just couldn't get into it.
I loved Dinner with a Perfect Stranger...most of James Patterson's books and like Stph, Nicholas Sparks. My favorite book strangely is The Hot House which is a book about Leavenworth Prison. Any war related book usually is high on my list as well. I am fascinated by the versitility and adaptation of the human body and spirit in extreme circumstances as well as the long term affects so I have an interest in studies r/t the aftermath of war and PTSD issues etc.
TMI...sorry, gotta get my kids ready for the WH pick up but that is an entirely different story...most likely categorized in the mystery/humor/self-help section...hopefully it won't develop into more of the James Patterson type lit!!!
Janet Evonovich's Stephanie Plum series....hysterical suspense (?) series. There are 12 of them so far and each one is better than the last. They are FUNNY.
Oh my, how sad to see this thread limping along so. I don't believe I've ever seen it on the third page.
Thanks for all the books recommendations. Now that I've done the grown up thing & gotten myself a day planner I've started a book list. I got a lot of book ideas from Cincinnati Library, they publish a book review. I'll try to post the link.
BigK, I've got a slew of marriage/affair/divorce related books, many of them Harley's. Gawd am I happy to not be reading those any more. The relationship books I'll keep for future reference. Have a great trip!
well....on my end....very happy to have the holiday season behind me...got the xmas tree down and all...
Hi Todd (me waving!!...assuming you have now become a lurker not-by-choice!)
...uhmm.....wondering if Pio is doing the same.....Hi Pio (...just in case...)
...and what the ******....the same for Larousse (again, just in case)....
Well... as the saying goes with 'low points'....there is no where to go but up! ...n'est-ce pas!?
I got it....will get some fransay going here....it might hit a few spots!....
Je suis désolée mais...il faut ce qu'il faut....allez les amis...reveillez-vous! ...à l'attaque! ....allez...hop! Les choses ne peuvent aller si mal que ça....me permettre de continuer en français???!!!!
Je sais que c'est un coup bas...mais d'une autre côté...vous ne me laissez pas de choix! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
How's everyone? BK, I'm still here...not much time now that school is back underway and I have zero free time. It has been pretty good though since I am occuppied most of the day and night and rarely think of WH. We've had a few text wars, he is requesting I "get the paperwork ready"...says he'll sign it and I can have what I want-- even sole custody of kids as long as I don't block him from visiting.
I don't have much $ so was planning on doing the on-line dissolution since WH so "agreeable"...waiting until after tax returns come in since I had no access to WH bank acct. to have a clue about his earnings and withholdings. WH was trying to mind**** me with his P/A tendencies and has become aggravated that they no longer work...he has resorted to requesting that I "leave him alone" although I never call and only text regarding kid coordination and attempting to get more info for the dissolution before I pay the $ to complete it. Ironically he is always the one to initiate calls/texts...go figure.
I have been pretty calm; emotional, sad but slowly moving on. Still in limbo regarding my summer relocation plans, hopefully will hear something soon. Still loving the kids and trying to compensate for having only one parent around...I don't know how single parents do it over the long haul...it has basically been 18 months of me being solo parent and it is hugely rewarding but painfully draining...I feel like I have aged 5+ years in the past 6 months:(
I miss you all and worry about Beth, Todd and Pio. I'm happy to hear from Nams, Luna, Stph and BK and occassional cameo from Pep, Believer and others.
I guess like our phases and stages in A-land and life in general threads are born, reshape, die, transform, whatever...I just miss all of the sarcastic techno diversion...just not in Kansas anymore huh?
BK, I must have missed that scheduling tidbit so I'll quit asking you when you leave!
Have you heard from anyone via email? Sure stinks that the wonder twins have vanished.
I do appreciate your keeping an eye on me...you haven't harrassed Stph lately, what's up with that? Since you seem to be the confessional I must confess I had final breakup SF with WH over Christmas holiday...least a good memory of what it could have been like in that regards for years to come...good closure for me. Guess that takes the heat off of Stph eh?
I have not heard from Pio for a couple of weeks. I am sad they are gone. It is sad when they feel their own thread is no longer a safe place for them to be. I did my best.
Rest assured I have other avenues on which I can kick Steph's [censored]. It has been well kicked lately I assure you.
I hope you are OK. We need to keep TKO alive in the hope the wanderers return.
2much, please understand this is not a criticism. How is you even want to have sex with your WWH?
For me, when things were bad in the M, sex was the first thing to go. If I didn't feel connected I didn't want sex. Granted, there was a time when I wanted more sex in my life, but I had to make the effort to want it with then H.
Hi BigK, Nams, stph20, 2much....and anyone else 'lurking'...LOL!
Yeah...I am also wondering about Beth, Todd and Pio...
I know the others..like Cinderella, Believer, Pep....basically drop by when they feel like it....so....not worried too much about them...LOL! ...although I don't know about Cind's health.....sounded pretty serious....even though it seems she's on 'top of things'....hope you are doing OK, Cind!
Went to see a movie last night...by a South Korean director.... based on the life of the painter Jang Seung-Up (now known as Ohwon).....prrrrrettty interesting.... and all the time I thought I had it bad!.....sssshhhhh...some life! ...though sounds like he did some 'magical paintings'..... may get a book out on his paintings.... major difference in everything: composition, method, etc. from those that I know like the renaissance painters, impressionists, etc. from the 'western' world!
Also happen to catch an interview with a French therapist who has been researching 'manipulators'..... so....went to borrow her book at the library and reading it.... as expected... my first reaction was that I was not only surrounded by manipulators.....but that I myself was totally one... until I caught on that there is a MAJOR difference between manipulative ways...which apparently pretty well everyone is guilty of using.....just as another method of getting what we want (read: BS & WS)....versus a true hardcore manipulator.... thank God!
....but I am enjoying it.... will force me to keep in check my 'manipulative ways'.....but better still...be more aware of when 'manipuative ways' are being used on ME... now....apparently....a true manipulator...will be a much harder cookie to crunch, should one come into our paths!
...just speculating....but I wouldn't be surprised if by now Todd is living at the Fire Station.... and Pio's house being overrun by hamsters 'forced' Pio to go live it up in his garage among his 'heavenly' tools! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
stph20....is OW still leaving her job at the end of Jan?!?
BigK??....have you started to get any 'butterflies' in your stomach about your big trip to the US?
2much.... I agree...we need to put some meat on the 'skeleton'...
Any good easy recipes to suggest?
....and glad to see that you are 'comfortable' enough with us to come 'clean' about SF....
on my end....if you are not reading my thread.....heard through the grapevines that WS is 'missing' his little family...but....as usual...not enough to want to do something about it! .....I really don't know where I would be now emotionally if it were not for PLAN B...it's getting to be easier and easier to focus on MY projects.. I was even actually up to 'seeing some old photos' and do a 'collage'...so when I walk into the house.... the first thing I get to see is my beautiful boys at 1 and 3 yrs old.... 2 and 7 yrs old..... a picture of me getting big hug from both of them... now....when I don't have the real thing to come home to....I have their.... PICTURES! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Nams,no offense on comments...as crazy as it is I still love H...not WWH, I could resist him easily, but over the Holidays I saw lots of H and thought it may be the last time he surfaces and is choked out completely by the WH. Not to sound superficial but he is just plain HOT and the SF was spontaneous, fun, emotional and for me a rekindling of a memory that I can keep with me. For some reason I can see past all his wayward ways to the person I know who is buried alive in the WH body. This is how I know that given the proper conditions and the WH's willingness our M could be recovered if he chose to change his wayward ways. Doesn't look like that will happen so I just wanted to seize the moment. I had the whole STD work-up and was good to go and promised myself I wouldn't succumb but I guess the emotion got the best of me.
Luna, Looks like you are keeping busy with the arts and entertainment part of life. Thanks for the reviews, I would be interested in the book title.
I can imagine that Beth is recovering with the love and support of her friends and children and quite possibly her H. Pio is probably shoe shopping with G in his spare time and doesn't want us to know about it and maybe Todd ran off with one of the cooks from his favorite local eatery!
We should start a fictional TKO and each contribute to the characters daily drama's...readers would be so confused between fantasy and reality...wait, that already is happening. LOL!!!
you haven't harrassed Stph lately, what's up with that?
Trust me, BigK harasses me plenty! Don't be fooled just because it's not on TKO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's been a loonnnggg time since I've not had my [censored] kicked by him!
Quote
Since you seem to be the confessional I must confess I had final breakup SF with WH over Christmas holiday...least a good memory of what it could have been like in that regards for years to come...good closure for me.
I understand this. It can be good closure. I'm going to get reamed for advocating it, but it also gives your WH another chance to see what's going to be missing.
Quote
Guess that takes the heat off of Stph eh?
Sadly, it won't! <sigh>
You seem to be in better spirits today 2much. I'm so glad to see that. I was a little worried about you last night!
Quote
stph20....is OW still leaving her job at the end of Jan?!?
she leaves January 29 or sometime around then. WH wasn't sure if that was her last day there or her first day at the new place. That date is on a Monday, so I assume it's her first day at the new place. I can't wait!
Hi nams, luna, 2much and BigK! We have to do what we can to keep TKO alive so the wanderers know where to come back "home" to!
as crazy as it is I still love H...not WWH, I could resist him easily, but over the Holidays I saw lots of H and thought it may be the last time he surfaces and is choked out completely by the WH. Not to sound superficial but he is just plain HOT and the SF was spontaneous, fun, emotional and for me a rekindling of a memory that I can keep with me. For some reason I can see past all his wayward ways to the person I know who is buried alive in the WH body. This is how I know that given the proper conditions and the WH's willingness our M could be recovered if he chose to change his wayward ways. Doesn't look like that will happen so I just wanted to seize the moment.
Beware of BigK, 2much!! If you've never had your butt kicked by him, watch out, you're about to!
I felt the exact same way as you regarding WH, H and SF. I could see through to other side and look at my H and not WH.
I see that nobody picked up on the 'french therapist' thing... and that would mean that the book I am reading is in?? guess what language??
...Todd must be biting his tongue if reading this...LOL!
Anyways...here it goes: Les Manipulateurs sont parmi nous by Isablle Nazare-Aga....if it has been translated, it would be something like: The manipulators are among us.
2much...that is a good idea.... fictional events of TKO members.... any idea about Larousse?
stph20??? ...do you need to come 'clean' like 2much about SF?
Quote
....promised myself I wouldn't succumb but I guess the emotion got the best of me.
...PLAN B is to keep BS in line....for exactly that reason!
BTW, 2much...what's your view on PLAN B? ....going directly to plan D? ...I don't see what you would have to lose by trying PLAN B...besides keeping you in line with SF!
Got over the respiratory infection and the eye infection. Just having ear problems - both ears. And my antibiotics messed up my mouth so it hurts to eat/swallow/talk. Treating that conservatively. Different antibiotic this week - for ears.
Doing traction for my2 herniated disks in my neck.
All of this and I am a healthy person? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Well, normally, I'm healthy. More sleep would help. Just sleep resistant theses days. I go through spells like that.
I can't recall the author & can't find the book scattered among the rest. It's a short book, you can read it in a day. You will recognize people you know, even people close to you, in this book.
It's about those people in our lives who give the backhanded compliments, who say things like, "I could never do xyz because my pride wouldn't allow me to but there must be something good about it because I admire you & you've done it." This one actually happened to me. She's no longer in a position to be an underminer to me.
Cinder, I've been meaning to talk about my experience with herniated disks.
I had one herniated & one burst, as I recall. My fingers were numb & I had weakness in my arms & hands, plus pain in my back & neck. These were two disks in my upper neck region.
I tried physical therapy, some drugs but nothing helped so I had surgery. They removed the disks & replaced them with bone from my hip.
This was about 16, 17 years ago. I have limited mobility in my neck & my neck pretty much always has some degree of pain. It seems the tips of a few fingers, mostly my index & middle fingers can feel numb, most often due to cold but some other times as well.
Am I better off than before, yes, but I think I'd work much harder at exhausting other possibilities before having that surgery again.
To me, an underminer...or a manipulator... pretty well describes a variation on the same theme.... bottom line....someone trying to get you to DO what they want, DOUBT yourself, THINK what THEY want, for their own purpose, and only taking into account their own objectives!
Quote
She's no longer in a position to be an underminer to me.
Good for you Nams....that's what needs to happen if we want to clean up our act!
I figured that's why a WS is daaannngerous....based on the book I am reading....if not a 'total manipulator'... definitely a WS is into manipulative WAYS in a major way!
Cind....good to hear from you...even though you might have trouble 'hearing'...LOL!
Gosh...'sounds' like you are into a lot antibiotics..... I have 'heard' (LOL), if they help on one end, over a long period of time...it may not be good for immune system....and you should look into eating a lot of yagourt to help it along!
Quote
Doing traction for my2 herniated disks in my neck.
Mistakes on a resume - These are from actual resumes:
"Personal: I'm married with 9 children. I don't require prescription drugs.
"I am extremely loyal to my present firm, so please don't let them know of my immediate availability."
"Qualifications: I am a man filled with passion and integrity, and I can act on short notice. I'm a class act and do not come cheap."
"I intentionally omitted my salary history. I've made money and lost money. I've been rich and I've been poor. I prefer being rich."
"Note: Please don't misconstrue my 14 jobs as 'job-hopping'. I have never quit a job."
"Number of dependents: 40."
"Marital Status: Often. Children: Various."
RESUME BLOOPERS
"Here are my qualifications for you to overlook."
REASONS FOR LEAVING THE LAST JOB:
"Responsibility makes me nervous."
"They insisted that all employees get to work by 8:45 every morning. Couldn't work under those conditions."
REASONS FOR LEAVING MY LAST JOB:
"Was met with a string of broken promises and lies, as well as cockroaches."
"I was working for my mom until she decided to move."
"The company made me a scapegoat - just like my three previous employers."
JOB RESPONSIBILITIES:
"While I am open to the initial nature of an assignment, I am decidedly disposed that it be so oriented as to at least partially incorporate the experience enjoyed heretofore and that it be configured so as to ultimately lead to the application of more rarefied facets of financial management as the major sphere of responsibility."
"I was proud to win the Gregg Typting Award."
SPECIAL REQUESTS & JOB OBJECTIVES:
"Please call me after 5:30 because I am self-employed and my employer does not know I am looking for another job."
"My goal is to be a meteorologist. But since I have no training in meteorology, I suppose I should try stock brokerage."
"I procrastinate - especially when the task is unpleasant."
PHYSICAL DISABILITIES:
"Minor allergies to house cats and Mongolian sheep."
PERSONAL INTERESTS:
"Donating blood. 14 gallons so far."
SMALL TYPOS THAT CAN CHANGE THE MEANING:
"Education: College, August 1880-May 1984."
"Work Experience: Dealing with customers' conflicts that arouse."
"Develop and recommend an annual operating expense fudget."
"I'm a rabid typist."
"Instrumental in ruining entire operation for a Midwest chain operation."
My thoughts on my doing plan B...I have seriously contemplated but don't know if it is worth it at this time for the following reasons: 1) WH serial cheater 2) long hx of lying throughout M 3)WH states "cultural" reason for insistance on "privacy" entire M and don't think it will ever change
The "privacy" issue improved gradually over 11 yr of M but not to my satisfaction ex. no longer closes door in another room to speak on phone (probably conducts all "private" calls outside of home now in cell phone age). Still has drawers or areas that are "off limits", private friends that are "off limits" etc. Things that are not to be discussed "outside the home" or "with other people"...
I originally thought all of this was cultural but recently since this last string of A's think it was all manipulative behavior to be able to successfully keep his "private" life alive and me not ruining his web of lies allowing the two worlds to collide. Can all of this change??? VERY Doubtful. Additionally, due to my career I will be relocating with the kids in the summer and this will be a natural plan B. WH has openly stated that he doesn't think he is capable of being completely honest nor does he choose to be open and transparent...he verbally acknowledged that since those were dealbreakers with me he would remain outside the home b/c he would not attempt to comply with these conditions.
Additionally, due to my career I will be relocating with the kids in the summer and this will be a natural plan B.
...uhmmm....I find the summer a long way off when having to deal with a WS!
You will notice in my signature....went into PLAN B...for my own sanity....literally!
...so...I am not thinking so much about recovering your M.... I am actually more concerned about you..... I found dealing with a WS very very damaging, both emotionally and psychologically....
...please keep it in mind...and be ready to go into PLAN B as soon as you think contact with WS is affecting you...TOO MUCH...LOL!
Q: Where do polar bears vote? . . A: The North Poll.
An old occupation
What happens when people of different occupations get old.
- Old daredevils never die, they just get discouraged.
- Old deans never die, they just lose their faculties.
- Old doctors never die, they just lose their patience.
- Old electricians never die, they just lose contact.
Math one-liner
Maths Teacher: Now suppose the number of sheep is x...
Golfing with an older man
A young man who was also an avid golfer found himself with a few hours to spare one afternoon. He figured if he hurried and played very fast, he could get in nine holes before he had to head home. Just as he was about to tee off an old gentleman shuffled onto the tee and asked if he could accompany the young man as he was golfing alone. Not being able to say no, he allowed the old gent to join him.
To his surprise the old man played fairly quickly. He didn't hit the ball far, but plodded along consistently and didn't waste much time. Finally, they reached the 9th fairway and the young man found himself with a tough shot. There was a large pine tree right in front of his ball - and directly between his ball and the green.
After several minutes of debating how to hit the shot the old man finally said, "You know, when I was your age I'd hit the ball right over that tree."
With that challenge placed before him, the youngster swung hard, hit the ball up, right smack into the top of the tree trunk and it thudded back on the ground not a foot from where it had originally lay.
The old man offered one more comment, "Of course, when I was your age that pine tree was only three feet tall."
I wrote you a heartfelt post about plan B last night just at the same time the site went wacky and wouldn't let me post for the rest of the night...
I think I will eventually either need to just get on with the D paperwork or go completely dark with a LSA. It has been 3 months with WH gone and I haven't once asked him a personal question...haven't initiated an email, text or phone call except if regarding child care issues...do not discuss anything personal.
WH has recently increased phone calls, drive buys and is now buying me gifts???? He is inviting me to spend time with he and kids and very interested in my appearance, whereabouts etc. It is getting harder to resist his charms.
I think my 2 biggest problems are: 1) having him out of the house has dulled my memory and lately he is only showing me the best parts of himself to me...almost plan A'ing me from a distance which I don't understand b/c he only 3wk ago told me he could not live with the boundaries/conditions that I had listed when he was saying he wanted to come back home. Anyway, with him gone he is more appealling b/c I don't see all the stuff that made me so upset like all the texts, phone calls, gifts from OPs etc. I don't know if they continue or not
2) Twice now my kids have insisted I go with them to an activity with WH saying "If you don't go Mom we aren't going...do it for us mom." Once it was just the family and it was over the holiday and the other time they had some friends and their parents there as well but if I am going to go to a real plan B how do I explain to the kids without them thinking that I am just mean and bitter...they know why WH is gone but I just don't know how to explain why we shouldn't be in the same room or spend time together...can you help me out? I tried explaining to them that WH chooses to live without his family and that it is too painful to mommy to spend time with dad when he only wants us when it is convenient for him. I don't want to bash or make them feel any more unloved than they may already feel...how do you explain it...I also feel bad b/c most likely we will be moving far, far away in less than 6 months and they will only see WH 2-3 times per year. I realize I am not the cause of this but explaining to 10 and unders is pretty hard...advice?
Can't help but if Pio or ToddAC were around they would set us straight in a heartbeat...PIO PIO PIO PIO...TODD TODD TODD...anyone...Bueller???? Are you there????
Nugent, an avid hunter, was being interviewed by a french journalist. The journalist asked, "What do you think the last thought is in the mind of a deer before you shoot it? Is it, "Are you my friend?" or is it "Are you the one who killed my brother?"
Nugent replied, "Deer aren't capable of that kind of thinking. All they care about is, what am I going to eat next, who am I going to screw next, and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very much like the french."
Pio, Welcome Home! Now we just have to round up Todd and Larousse...perhaps they are drinking Tequila without us????
I am so glad you have made a cameo...I am a wreck and have been quite calm about it actually. Limbo is getting to me. If I at least knew where I was going to be going come summer I could start some realworld planning...
I don't understand anything remotely with WH and despite some strange mixed signals I began the online paperwork for plan D and it is now 75% complete...I need the rest of info from WH and then it will be ready to file...
How's life treat'n you Pio? We are all pretty lost without the sarcasm, humor and dry science. We were wondering how the hamster breeding was going? What became of all the gingerbread houses??? Have they become the new hamster residences? Have you heard from Todd?
TODD, TODD, your wonder twin has surfaced...SUPERMAN, are you out there???? Maybe he is visiting Beth??? Hope she is recovering...
as we hang by threads awaiting info...the tiny crowd becomes restless, grumbles are heard and a scuffle begins, the takers rise up and demand some give...INFO, INFO, INFO, the tiny crowd chants...
Well I don't know about the math thing since I didn't post it but the first thing that came to mind was the number of sheep you count before you go to sleep. Then the connection became tenuous.
What do you want? Don't concentrate on your WH's current behavior which looks a bit panicky. He has proven himself to be a good manipulator & he is now trying to manipulate you.
It appears he is feeling the pinch of the loss of the family. Is that enough for him to change his behavior? Doesn't he need to demonstrate to you some understanding of the destruction he's caused? Doesn't he need to agree to & meet the conditions you set for returning to the family?
Oh, stay away from sex with him. It certainly won't help you think more clearly.
It appears he is feeling the pinch of the loss of the family. Is that enough for him to change his behavior? Doesn't he need to demonstrate to you some understanding of the destruction he's caused? Doesn't he need to agree to & meet the conditions you set for returning to the family?
You are right, my gut says it isn't enough to make him change...he just wants both and thinks that he can get it b/c in the past he could. It is so strange though, we are closer now in some respects and yet miles apart. He says he loves me but apparently not enough to even try to change...I would put $ on the fact that if he were asked he would say that he is intentionally distancing himself and trying to detach for my sake b/c he knows I deserve better...he would say he wants to come home but knows he will fail to live to the expectations that I set with my conditions of O&H, transparency etc...all the things that you would expect of a marriage from the onset.
Quote
Oh, stay away from sex with him. It certainly won't help you think more clearly.
Right again, I thought I could detach and it would be purely physical but I could not separate the emotional aspect and it set me back. That's right Nams,BK,all you MB experts you are wise to advise no SF for MANY reasons...I will do my best not to succumb again...another reason for plan B I guess.
I am torn between LSA with plan B and plan D...most of the D paperwork is done...I am miserable, weepy, frustated, aggravated and mad at myself for even letting myself get back in this cry-baby rut. I see the benefit of plan B and just need to be able to explain to my children why there will be mom family time and dad family time and they cannot mix. I need to find my backbone again, pull on my boots and get to marching in the direction that is best for myself and the kids.
Let the 2 x 4's fly along with any advice on how to explain to the kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Thank you. I am sure that answer would suffice since they are so concerned about Mom, constantly asking if I am sad, crying, happy etc.
Truth be known, if you follow Life2Short Thread I am in the same boat...choosing to be "stuck", wishing that I had that relationship that "could be" but never really was...taking a few steps forward and backsliding in fear...looking for any excuse not to take action
I just need to push myself to keep moving ahead and get the paperwork completed and filed. If he miraculously chooses to change I can cross that bridge then.
I feel like I lost my best friend but I really lost him years ago and just avoided grieving the loss...it is all catching up with me now
I am having to address my own codependent behavior and boundariless life that all stems from my childhood...although I can be extremely agressive and direct in business for whatever reason I allow my personal life to react as if I were still in a dysfunctional home...to this day I have not raised my voice or had a constructive disagreement with my mother...she violated any boundary I ever had and the way I dealt with it was to move far away and limit visits to infrequent and short time spans
I had the same sitch in my first M where I allowed things to happen that I was not comfortable with, did whatever I felt I needed to in order to keep H happy and prevent him leaving although he treated my like a doormat...
I have been excellent with keeping my children to my boundaries with them...it is only with those the very closest to me that I let the boundaries erode...why do I do this???
Ok I have REALLY gone all out here with the purging...
I would put $ on the fact that if he were asked he would say that he is intentionally distancing himself and trying to detach for my sake b/c he knows I deserve better
This gives me indigestion. WS's are totally selfish and think of nobody but themselves. There is no possible way your WH could exhibit any kind of altruistic behavior. If he is distancing himself, it is because he no longer is getting what he wants and is trying to appease any deep seeded sense of guilt he might have. He may say he is doing it for you but the reality is that it has always been about him and it remains so.
I wish I could help you with ideas on what to tell the kids. That is tough. I suggest you get them into IC for a time. If I were in your place (and I once was), I told my DDs the absolute truth. I told them that mom left us because she no longer loved me and wanted to be with someone else. I assured them that mom still loved them very much and that I was the problem - not them. I'm not sure they entirely understood that but I couldn't think of anything else to say. I believe that if you lie to your kids, they will see through it. That doesn't help build their trust. Their world and everything they have known has been shaken to the core. They are trying to reestablish themselves in their new environment. You have to be rock solid for them (their anchor - so to speak).
"I would put $ on the fact that if he were asked he would say that he is intentionally distancing himself and trying to detach for my sake b/c he knows I deserve better..."
Manipulation plain & simple. He knows what you will listen to & uses it.
What to tell the kids?
Decide what you're doing first. Is it plan B, is it filing for D, what?
Once you've made the choice do it. Tell the kids what they will understand. Keep it simple & on their level. Reassure them this is between you & their dad. Tell them you both love them & will always be there to care for them.
Don't give the kids too many details about what's gone wrong. keep it more about what you need to do for yourself & them to feel in a better position to be strong.
Well...it's been awhile since I have to 'catch up'.....
Hi 2much,
Quote
It is getting harder to resist his charms.
That's why you need to be in PLAN B....you WILL have a hard time resisting his charm....and WS is nowhere nearer to committing to respecting your boundaries.... why should he?
Quote
b/c he only 3wk ago told me he could not live with the boundaries/conditions that I had listed when he was saying he wanted to come back home.
...2much...by not being in PLAN B....and being dark.... you are basically telling him....he doesn't have...to see you!
Quote
they know why WH is gone but I just don't know how to explain why we shouldn't be in the same room or spend time together.
....sounds like you have explained it well to them...just need to ask them to respect it...
I know you feel guilty about moving away....but your children can see their dad as much as they want....and just that YOU will not be in the picture....
If you want to still give this a shot...and your WS is NOT giving you any reason to...before moving away...is a perfect time to allow your WS to see how 'reality' will be without YOU in his life....and PLAN B him....go dark....as it is how it will be once you move away....
2much.... YOU need to respect your own boundaries!
...and I KNOW what I am saying is not easy...but why should your WS or your children respect your boundaries if you yourself aren't?
((((((((((((((((2much)))))))))))))
You know that I know that going dark is scary...so?????
Ok guys, I think Luna nailed it...I know what I have to do I just don't want to have to do it...how can anyone respect my boundaries when I enforce them like the weather...I have to be consistent...I don't want to babysit the WH anymore, I don't want to worry and wonder and try my [censored] off to trust someone who hasn't shown me any attempt at working to reconcile and thinks charming his way back will work since it did in the past. I am a conflict avoider in my personal life. I should get the paperwork completed but go into plan B now...
...well...the last time I checked.... 'x' is a letter!
Well I guess you didn't do very well in algebra then. For the record, "x" is not a letter - it's an independent variable. The number of sheep can be represented by "x". Now, if you want to consider the decline in population of "x" sheep due to old age, for example, then "x" becomes dependent and you would need to take the derivative of "x" with respect to time.. If you take the second derivative, you should be able to determine the time at which you would have no more sheep (i.e. x = 0).
he would say that he is intentionally distancing himself and trying to detach for my sake b/c he knows I deserve better...he would say he wants to come home but knows he will fail to live to the expectations that I set with my conditions of O&H, transparency etc...all the things that you would expect of a marriage from the onset.
....yep.....a WS can even sometimes want to actually convince a BS that the A is for BS's benefit!
....2much...its the 'blame' game....the 'denial' game....the 'excuses' game..... annnythinnnnng.....so WS is not RESPONSIBLE for what is happening!
Well I guess you didn't do very well in algebra then.....
No....as a matter of fact....I did very well, Pio! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
For heaven's sake...it's a joke, Pio! geeeshhh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
BTW.....Pio...what the heck is happening with your hamsters....and everything....e l s e....(seeing that one cannot specifically ask about how are things with G)??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Since you asked, I now have enough baby hamsters to make a small but very attractive muff. Considering the time it has taken me to get this far, I may be being somewhat pragmatic but I think I need to lower my sights a tad. On the plus side though, after some experimentation, I think I have found about the right balance such that lettuce offsets cannibalistic tendencies just enough so that they don't get too fat. I don't want them to stretch their little hides as it ruins the softness.
Gemela finished her first scrapbook. I have to say she did a very good job. I didn't understand the math before but I now see that it takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 140 twelve by twelve sheets of paper to make one 19 page scrapbook. My stress level has gone down since we discovered that there is a lady here who runs quite a professional scrapbooking business out of her house and she seems to be open 24/7. Wonder if she'll install a drive-thru?
Thanks for the well wishes robby. I honestly thought I had turned a corner at the new year. It was a good start. Last week I hit a major trigger resulting in me demanding a divorce (which I was denied). I'm borderline. But we are trying. I think I am asking myself questions I shouldn't. Haven't figured out how to stop it though. Sorry I missed you in Orlando.
At the time, scrapbooking seemed like it would be a fairly inocuous hobby. The theory was that it might help WW reconnect to the family and, sorry to be so blunt but if WW was busy scrapbooking, she might not have time to be off doing other, less moral, activities.
Scrapbooking was intended to be her hobby. It has turned out into heavy labor for me. She has not learned how to use Photoshop and that doesn't seem like it's going to change in the near term. On a more negative side, scrapbooking has its own triggers. All in all, I am not very happy about my level of involvement with the scrapbooking. I think it is a bit unfair for WW to simply assume that I am going to occupy my every waking, non-working hour on that activity. It has gotten so bad that I have had to increase my nap time while at work from 4 hours to 6 hours. If I keep this up for long, I'm afraid my productivity might suffer.
Frankly, one of the reasons I never even considered trying it is that I could imagine, with my artistic perfectionism, I knew that would happen to me. Plus, I didn't need something else on which to spend the pittance on which I run my household....well, it is a pittance compared to what I used to have for running a household.
Well I have to admit that in retrospect, the whole thing was not well considered. It is also very high maintenance. What ever happened to white pages and those stick-on black corners? I swear we have some pages that don't even have photos on them - they wouldn't fit after all the decorations were in place.
Do you have your new posting all done and dusted yet or are you still in haitus? If so, does that cause you additional stress? It is interesting to see you use the word "cling". My question is what do you believe you are clinging to? I ask that of you because I am asking myself that same question. I can't for the life of me figure out why I am not divorcing. I feel like I should be.
Exponential stress...I am still in assignment limbo...trying to work the one far away from here that wont' send me to the sandbox, HOWEVER my latest project here has created a little fan club who are trying to work me the same type of sitch here...it is killing me...I detest limbo almost more than the pain...for my mental health I would love to go far away but for the kids sake it would allow them more visitation if I remained here
Clinging to all the good times which were interspersed btwn PAs and EAs over a decade...clinging to the person who knows me better than I probably know myself...clinging to the security of always having someone to laugh with, complain to, shoulder to cry on...clinging to the person who I can work with better than anyone I have ever met-we can work like a finely tuned instrument together...clinging to all the fond memories of the kids milestones that include him...clinging to all of the positive trying desparately to smother out all of the negative...
As I have said before, up until this year the benefits of our M far outweighed the risks...I would look at WH who all outsiders thought was the perfect man and say to myself...I am lucky he doesn't drink, gamble, have a sports addiction on and on ...I can handle his need to always have 1 close female "friend"...problem was at times WH crossed over to EA if not at times PA...he would recognize, dissolve the friendship have a dry spell meet someone else and the cycle would begin again. The only thing that would prevent this from recurring would be his committment to O&H and he refuses.
So that is what I cling to...my security blanket, paci, whatever you want to call it...sadly I used to be a smoker...knew it wasn't good for me...quit 11 yr ago cold turkey...there are still times even today that I miss the comfort and psychological support of my cigs...how much different and more intense will it be missing WH...that scares me...flip side is I am healthier and as time wore on it was just a fleeting longing and nothing more b/c I could identify that it was pretty much just the thoughts of it not the actual physical activity...guess it equates to comfort food not being so delicious but a psych comfort from past memories of how secure and loved we felt when eatitng x food
I hope that gives you some insight...I have thought of you alot while you were in hiding wondering how things were going and if you were feeling any more secure in your M...do you feel loved and respected? Are your ENs known and being met? Are you making a concerted effort at meeting FWW ENs? BTW,scrapbooking is punishment you must have mutiny on this issue...I would recommend it as an activity for prisoners for a minimum of 18 hr/day. Are you spending your 15 hr wk on activities that you used POJA? Do you see any changes in the girls since the homecoming?
IMVHO what you seem to be going through now has a strong tie to having had sex with your WH. That & the manipulative behavior your WH is using now trying to entice you back into a situation he controls. Have the strength to just say no.
You say all that's standing in the way of his return to your M is O & H? How about what appears to be his inability to not have either EAs or PAs? This has been a pattern for years, yes?
It sounds like you're clinging to what you want to be not the whole of what you've described your M to actually be.
Pio, why do you feel you should be Ding & why do you say you can't figure out why you're not?
Well nams, that was pretty much my point and it is keen because it is where I feel I am at this moment. What am I trying to save? Am I trying to save the M itself or what I think the M should be? I suspect that 2much is hanging on to the wrong thing. I'm afraid I am too.
Are you able to express this to G, Pio? Do you think she's holding on for the wrong reasons as well?
I'm not advocating D when I say this but coming back from the devastation of an A requires so much from both parties. The regret & remorse must be true & the desire to build a better marriage there. Not everyone has the skills or the desire to acquire them. Not to mention the eroding away of love & trust.
I don't think one can underestimate the lose of love & trust & how difficult it is to find the desire to get that back.
Even though I would have done anything to stay married to ex, I realize now what a mistake that would have been. He would need to be a different person for me to be happy in a marriage with him. He doesn't deserve my respect or my love & I am truly better off with out him. He wasn't capable, nor did he feel he needed to, change what may have made the difference for us.
It sounds like you're clinging to what you want to be not the whole of what you've described your M to actually be.
This is exactly what I am doing...clinging to the potential, the possibilities...secretly waiting for WH to suddenly come begging for fogiveness and mercy pleading to do anything necessary to recover our M...because to me that is what should happen if you took your vows to heart...a part of me feels guilty for wanting the D and giving up on my part of the deal...I know that he negated the contract crossing the A line but b/c of how I was raised I still can't shake the fact that I am the quitter despite his horrific behavior...in reality I am the rescuer saving and protecting my children/family
I know I deserve better...I need to keep reminding myself that he made his own choices and I have provided countless opportunities for reconciliation...he is the one behind this time bomb
This is exactly what I am doing...clinging to the potential, the possibilities...secretly waiting for WH to suddenly come begging for fogiveness and mercy pleading to do anything necessary to recover our M...because to me that is what should happen if you took your vows to heart.
Are you sure you aren't my long lost twin? Awww honey I had no idea you were still dealing with this. I am sorry. I am around if you want to talk, ok?
For a too long I felt like a failure because ex wanted to D me. Intellectually I knew better but emotionally was another story.
The explanations I would use to tell other people what was going on almost sounded trite. Though devastating to me I sometimes felt I should have moved on sooner, felt less at fault because the seeming commonness of out marital break up.
In talking with my IC I'd hear him say all the things we say to one another here but only part of me listened & believed. Especially the part about me being better off without ex as my husband, that I deserved better & that I now had an opportunity to live a fuller life with a partner who truly will care for me.
It was all true but when you feel less than the words don't seem to apply to you.
The MB program takes a lot of hard work. As you said, it is not easy to recover from an A. Somewhere in this whole process I forgot to remember to ask myself what I really wanted. I to want a full, happy, fulfilling marriage. But there is nothing that says it has to be with gemela. The question is whether she even has it within her to be a good wife and mother. That's where my doubt lies. It is ironic how completely reversed our roles have become.
It is ironic how completely reversed our roles have become
Are you speaking to your parenting roles? If so, I can atest to the same, however I wonder how much of this is that WS was SAHparent...lost identity, felt taken for granted, suffocated, robotic, undervalued etc???
Definitely not an excuse for A's but I have to wonder since I was not the SAH and have been able to work from home for past 1.5 yr while in school...I can easily see how folks loose their ID, long for adult interaction, attention at times feel like it's ground hog day...I have embraced the opportunity and look at it differently than most as I was always jealous of WS for being able to be there for all firsts etc. Just a fleeting thought...
You are right, Pio. Sometimes we are so caught up in winning our spouses back we forget to ask the question of whether they are or ever have been capable of being the spouse we need.
Maybe I am your lost twin...but it looks like there are a few other twinners out there too !
Yeah, it's been a rough road since the Holiday's...I let way too many walls down and tried to take each day without really sticking to any plan...DANGEROUS territory.
I have been painfully honest with myself lately and not to mention PMS which only magnifies everything...kinda like how you can be blubbering drunk and life is tragic but when you wake up the next day the sunrises, you realize it ain't all that bad and you keep on keeping on...next thing you know you look back and wonder what all the hoopla was all about.
Not parenting. I am referring to irony of one spouse wanting out of the M (i.e. having the A) while the other wants to save it followed by the wayward wanting the M while the betrayed desperately wants out.
I told her last night that she had decided she was unhappy in her M so she had an A. I still can't see that she is happy so what is different between then and now that won't have her jumping into bed with the next OM that strikes her fancy. She replied that she doesn't want to go through this again. I agreed but I told her that I can't think of many good reasons why I am willing to even run the risk. I reminded her that I was not always happy in my M but it never would have occurred to me to cheat. She has now shown me that marriages are disposable. If it isn't working out, learn your lesson and move on. She says we should try for the DDs. That I agree is a good motivation but I don't want to keep a M together just for the kids. I simply explained that I am very unhappy and I can't think of one single thing she does that makes me happy. I am in serious EN deficit and I have no clue why. If she started meeting my EN's, maybe that would help. I just don't know what they are. I can say for certain that scrapbooking is not on the list.
Sorry, assumed incorrectly about the role reversal.
Maybe you two should go away alone for a bit if possible...surely you must have some idea of what your ENs are...I know you were discussing how you got by on next to nothing...maybe that is the problem...you went to long on empty...
Okay changing the subject slightly but I just got a surprise that has hurt. Depending on what version of the story you choose to believe, OM had a girlfriend overseas. Well apparently at least one of them was real and through a strange set of coincidences, she found some of the emails I have stored away on the WWW just as insurance that WW can't delete them. Well she sent me an email. The good news is that she and pool boy are no longer together. The bad news is that she is devestated that pool boy cheated on her as well.
This has made me feel really bad. I know a lot of people have been hurt by gemela's A. Gemela and pool boy I have no sympathy for as they are hardly innocent victims. Family I can empathize with but the pain is not immediately theirs as it is for me. I have tried to protect DDs as best as possible so I always felt that I was the only one directly hurt by all this. But now there is another and she says it is now causing problems in her current relationship. Trust issues I guess. I told her how sorry I was for all this. I recommended she read HNHN and I told her she was not at fault - it was pool boy's choice and that her current BF is not the same as pool boy. Even so, I feel so sorry for her. It is ruining my morning so far.
FF has touched on the kernel. At some point you begin to ask yourself if this WS is the type of person I really want to devote the rest of my life to. In my case, is WW or can she be the type of person I would want as a wife? Well she already has one strike against her by default. Not many men want to have an adulterous, lying wife. Go figure. So what does she bring to the table? I have to admit also that my belief about who she is or can become depends greatly on how I feel about her at the time. I have seen some behaviors lately that raise my neck hairs. I even suspected that maybe she was in contact with OM again. She swears that is not the case. OTOH, why would she admit it if it were true? Is it worth spending the rest of my life sleeping with one eye open? At the moment, it is definitely not. Unless I can find some EN's and then start getting those EN's met, I can't see this working out. She says that she wants more time and she reminds me that the "experts" say that it takes 3-5 years. Assuming that this could all work out, do I want to be miserable for that much longer?
I don't know. I'm just psychologically at a place where I can walk away from this M so easily. I don't really feel all that depressed - just completely detached.
Pio, G can not make you happy. Your happiness must be rooted within yourself.
It is my opinion that much of what dissatisfies us springs from issues we, personally, brought to the table. Granted, we are all affected by the decisions of others. Perhaps you both need to do some IC work on your own personal issues before the marriage can be healed.
I liken it to the fact that a mechanic can not repair a machine if all parts are broken. The parts must be repaired individually before the machine can be repaired as a whole.
I do agree with you and understand that gemela cannot make me happy. I guess the question I am asking is whether she is on the path to my happiness or an obstacle preventing it. I totally accept that I am the only one who can make me happy.
I have seen some behaviors lately that raise my neck hairs. I even suspected that maybe she was in contact with OM again. She swears that is not the case. OTOH, why would she admit it if it were true? Is it worth spending the rest of my life sleeping with one eye open? At the moment, it is definitely not
I totally get what you are saying. Pio what you seem to be having is that "gut" feeling something isn't right in your world. Always brings on some sort of depression like symptons in me until I confirm my instincts were correct. Nothing like your spouse gaslighting you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Pio, Being blunt here, but if Gemela works on SF, Recreational Companionship, Physical Attractiveness, Domestic Support and admiration - she may just start hitting the mark - you are a man after all.
Even if she only did a good job on the first 2 you might start feeling differently.
FF has touched on the kernel. At some point you begin to ask yourself if this WS is the type of person I really want to devote the rest of my life to. In my case, is WW or can she be the type of person I would want as a wife?
Pio...this is one only you can answer. One that I have been asking myself as well. The whole sleeping with one-eye open etc...
Short story...
My parents have been married 45 yr...totally dysfunctional household...my father rarely home, drinker, gambler but good provider...for a decade he actually lived in a different state and came home on w/e's. Not sure if there was any infidelity but there were plenty of fireworks, fights and nights that he rolled in just before dawn. We had drills where my mother would wake us all, pack our stuff and leave only to return back home...they remained M and never really separated except the geographic due to employment issues. I often wondered how my mother did it and how my father put up with the psychosis of my mom. I understand my mother much better now. She says she lived many years with a "heavy heart".
At the 35 yr mark my mother gave my father an ultimatum, made him sign some agreement. He quit drinking, gambling and became best friends with my mom. The spend almost all their free time together and don't know what they would do without each other.
I look at this and wonder...could I endure? Could my WH change? Am I being to impatient?
Ironically my mom is encouraging plan D.
Pio, what will make you happy? Do you need a new environment? I know my expectation is that if things changed and WH agreed to boundaries I would expect him to be doing some major butt kissing for a LONG time...going out of his way to spend time doing things I like or new things. I would want him to try and get to know me, ask me what hurts me so he could try to change, be attentive to me, drop what he is doing to help me...all the things he naturally did for OWs without having to think. That's what hurts me the most...during our entire M there were things that WH never did (buy flowers, fancy dinners etc) I used to use the excuse that he just was ignorant but when he started doing these things for/with OWs I couldn't lie to myself anymore. Those are the splinters that lead to festering and amputation...
Does G KNOW you have emotional needs? Previous to finding MB I didn’t know I had any…
Are you two reading the same page? When you were working through the pain and agony of infidelity you found several paths to follow. You listened to me (sort of), found MB, did a Plan A and so on. But now that you “saved” the marriage then do you have any way of saving your relationship?
Maybe you have done this already but why not go through the MB process and involve G in it.
I totally agree with Bigger - Pio - her being an ostrich doesn't cut it. No wonder you want a divorce. She needs to understand this. Her presence is NOT enough.
I know you aren't going to believe this but I had the strangest dream about your country last night. I swear on the Bible it's true. Strange. We were flying low and coming near it and somebody asked me if I knew what country it was because I heard two people talking about it but in their native language. When asked, I said Scotland. I was corrected. But their name for it and my name for it didn't sound anything alike. Strange.
One of the prerequisites given to gemela was that she read HNHN. She hasn't done that. I think I will bring that up today and offer that we both read it together. I have been mulling this for about a week now. I can almost hear that book calling my name. Maybe you are right. Maybe she has no idea that EN's even exist. I can't say I did before reading SAA.
her being an ostrich doesn't cut it. No wonder you want a divorce. She needs to understand this. Her presence is NOT enough.
FINALLY we are on the same page!!! You are getting it!!!
p.s. the screen name change was at Todd's request. I tend to agree. I know I run the risk of offending lemonman. See? there was a plus side <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
as long as I don't have to call you gilbert grape.
Why have you not enforced your boundary before now? She does need to read HNHN and reading it together would be great.
Why don't you get the MB Audio home study course? It waslk you through it chapter by chapter with exercises for you to do and then PLANS to actually meet the needs.
You can call me Ray...or you can call me Jay...or you can call me R.J. ...or you can call me R.J Johnson Jr....But youz doesn't has to call me Johnson.
but if Gemela works on SF, Recreational Companionship, Physical Attractiveness, Domestic Support and admiration - she may just start hitting the mark - you are a man after all.
BigK,
Do you want to know what my immediate reaction was when I read this? Divorce. Because what you describe is something that could be supplied by any of about a billion women on this planet. Just because gemela has seniority in the position doesn't mean she is the most highly qualified for the job. I am truly hesitant to break it down as you describe because, if I do, I begin to ask myself where is the value added? What does gemela bring to the table that the other 999,999,999 women don't. What you are saying is I might as well try to enjoy the M because gemela is being a woman. What I am searching my soul for is what gemela does or can offer that puts her at the top of the list. She used to be there. She doesn't seem concerned about trying to get there again. She assumes that, since we are married, she has the job by default. Not so. A complete organizational change is not out of the question here. If her quarterly performance indicators don't show improvement, we may have to downsize.
But the reason most people even attempt recovery is because of their children.
Children alone are a poor reason for staying in a loveless marriage but are a powerful reason for trying to recover a wonderful loving passionate marriage.
But G does have to shift her [censored] into gear. And she needs to be clear on what that looks like to you.
And yes there are 9999999999 chicks on the plannet, give or take, but your daughters only call one chick mommy.
Okay being mom is an asset. But if mom just let's her [censored] set around hoping this will all magically become great, I can't accept that.
I will say though that I am very glad you have plainly stated that the reason most people attempt recovery is for the kids. I totally agree. When I started this process, I did so not for the kids but because I loved gemela. Now my motivation has changed. Now I do it for the kids. Problem is gemela wants time. Okay it takes time. But she pretty has it marked on her calendar that on Jan. 26th, 2011, we will have a happy marriage. That's because she has decided it will take five years. I look at that and say she might be right or she might be wrong but I certainly don't want to wait four more years to learn the answer.
I guess it gets down to me believing that we need to work on recovery to achieve recovery while she thinks sitting idly by will achieve the result. One of us is wrong. I'll think about the video course. I can't do that any time soon. Getting videos sent to Saudi is virtually impossible.
It's not the time that does it, it's what you do with the time.
Gemela must actively engage in recovery. Working through HNHN and both of you answering the questions at the end of each chapter and discussing them will help.
Audio is even worse than video if you can believe that. Language problem. At least with video, the minitry of information can put them in their fast play machines and watch them at 5x speed. Audio? They just assume the worst and bin it.
I will talk to gemela tonight and explain about HNHN and what I want her to do. If I have another hostile takeover attempt, I will definitely downsize. Already have the poison pill ready.
I can download without much problem as long as nothing gets trapped by the proxy server. Just putting the wrong keyword in a filename is enough to get caught. I won't be surprised if some day this site gets blocked. I can no longer go to the SI site. Proxy blocks it.
ACLU Sues to Remove Differential Calculus from Curriculum
Washington: The American Civil Liberties Union is suing the US Government to have differential calculus removed from all curriculums and is demanding that only integral calculus be taught henceforth. ACLU attornies claim that it is unconstitutional to differentiate X with respect to Y as it is prejudicial to both parties. The ACLU is also preparing a class action lawsuit on behalf of both X and Y claiming unspecified damages. The ACLU states that once you start differentiating X with respect to Y, you embark on an instantaneous slope from which there is no return. In court documents, the ACLU also claims that X and Y should be removed from Algebra as well since they intrinsically imply gender bias but no replacement variable names have been recommended. In addition to punitive damages, the ACLU demands that only integral calculus be taught as higher math so that X and Y can function together peacefully under one curve. Calls for comment to the Attorney General's office have not been returned.
Gilbert,awful name BTW, do you think you may be afraid that if you articulate your ENs & G is still unable to meet them in a way that brings love for her back to you, you'll then have nothing left to try?
Also, ex said exactly what you did about meeting ENs. Why couldn't anyone, not just me, meet what ever his needs happened to be then he'd be in love with them. I tried to explain he would be falling BACK in love with me, that we had a head start because we were, at one time, in love. Didn't make a dent. His question has validity.
Some people understand they need to step up & are willing to do so, others just don't want to work that hard. Still others are unable to get the love back after betrayal, some see a future with a person they know they don't want to be with for whatever combination of reason.
The Harley plan is a great one but it does require work from both people & then there are a host of variables that play into its success.
I'm just talking out loud here and I am not saying this has anything to do with my plans but the Harley logic is a two-edged sword. His explanation of how affairs develop equally applies to how a BS could detach from a WS. If we accept the premise that the relationship is based solely on the love bank balance determined by met EN's and we accept that affairs can happen because virtually anyone can potentially meet EN's, then a BS can look at a WS and ask "why stay with you?". BK is right - you do it for the kids. There is no other compelling motivation. Okay yes you may be able to fall back in love with the WS. But since you buy the Harley plan hook, line and sinker, you now understand that the WS is nobody special - they are replaceable. You don't love them any more. You could love them again - but you could also love a different person. The A and its aftermath destroys the WS's love bank balance to the BS.
Gemela says she won't have another affair because she doesn't want to go through all this again. Guess what? I don't either. The simplest solution to guarantee that is D. I told her that if she remains in an unhappy M, she will have another A. She did it once - she'll do it again because she found that it was the only thing that gave her pleasure. So there must be something more to add to the equation. There must be an active attempt at recovery. Just trying to pretend it will all be forgotten with time is not a good plan.
Gilbert......Have you ever consider that you simply dont love Gemela anymore? IT Does not matter what she does NOW, you will still feel uneasy and unhappy. Your love bank is completely in ZERo!!!
Well...the thought has crossed my mind. Is that reason for D? Or do I try the MB approach to try to fall in love again? Honestly I could go either way.
GG- I think you had given your marriage enough time to know what YOu really want to do. If you think staying in a marriage void of love, is good for YOU,Gemela or your little girls , then stay in it!! otherwise Get divorce . Your daughters are very young to see their parents indiferent to one another, they need to see love between you two to grow up secure and happy and with enough insight to choose the right man when is their time to do so.
Gilbert, I have been following your situation since your name was tracionado, and I posted to you early on. You've certainly been through a lot since you began posting here. (Disclaimer: I am a FWW, in recovery for 18 months, haven't seen OM in years. So, if any of this bothers you, feel free to just skip the rest, I'll certainly understand, no problem.)
I find it unbelievable that your W won't pick up a freakin book. I don't blame you for feeling discouraged about that; it's as though she's in denial. In our recovery, I have been the one to purchase every book I could find. Some were better than others. I would leave them lying around and my H would read them and we would discuss.
Have you told her that you need her to take specific steps or the marriage is through? You are at the point of indifference now, whereas before you were understandably angry. Personally I think that indifference is the opposite of love. You said that you are not sure what your needs are....perhaps you could come up with a want?
Starting with "I want you to read these books and for us to discuss them".
Let me say that I am of the opinion that children are much better off with two parents, as long as there is no abuse or ongoing affair. And your girls are so young still. I would really give it a try to see if the two of you could fall in love again. But your W is going to have to make more of an effort than simply to be present, she will have to be proactive. Does she understand that this is her last chance?
First. Myrta - I have no intention of letting my DDs grow up in a family where no love exists between mom and dad. That would be cruel. The intention would be to let love happen again. Don't know if it's possible any more.
PenaltyX (sorry but I always get confused by one or both of you). I have nothing against FWW's. I had hoped to be married to one at one point. It still might happen.
Let's keep this simple for the moment. I'll talk to her about the book once she finishes her scrapbooking for the evening. I am not getting involved tonight. We have already clearly established that it is not an EN of mine. I let you know how it goes.
I had another trigger moment today. It wasn't a good afternoon.
Penalty X; that sounds good. My H reads my posts, he's just not that into posting.
I'm sorry you had a trigger moment. My husband gets those, although they are far fewer than they were. The tough part for him is that it's often something that seems initially inocuous and just gets him thinking along certain lines. So it's not like he can avoid it, it sneaks up on him.
Re the OM's GF, I can think of several reasons why it tears you up. For one thing, it's another tangible reminder of hurt, a reflection of your own pain. Did she leave OM after she found out about the A? (I think you said that she is with someone else now). And if she has moved on, you see that her boyfriend's betrayal still hurts her. So it gives you the impression that the sting of infidelity may still continue for you, even if your marriage ends.
Or maybe it's something else altogether. But it's worth exploring, even if it hurts. I'm not a masochist, but I don't think you can bury pain without it coming back to haunt you at a later date.
I do scrapbooking minus the frills - pictures and mementos. It works. The kids love looking at the albums. They're so big now...
Something I can't explain about OM's GF because I can't really put it into words. Somehow I always knew my WW had an A but it always had a surrealistic quality about it. Because we are so far from home and in such a foreign place, everything seems not quite real. The A took on that quality too. But now that I see that it has affected an "outsider", it has changed my entire perspective on the A. It bothers me so much that a young woman with her whole life ahead of her may forever be affected by this stupidity.
I did talk to WW last night and I did tell her that I believe we both need to read HNHN and discuss it and that I will be sincerely disappointed if she does her usual and agrees to read it but puts it down after 10 pages saying she is too busy. She promised to read it so we'll see how it goes.
Let me also add that for reasons I can't explain, it is tearing me up that OM's GF contacted me. I don't know why that hurts me so.
Any major new dimension to the situation will cause a "cerebral reevaluation"--almost anytime synapses reassociate on a painful event it's painful...plus as you mentioned contact from the "outside" would make the situation more "real."
Wow, I see the name change really must represent something! Not only have you taken on a new identity, you have taken on protecting the french from unwarranted verbal slaughtering!
I'm just talking out loud here and I am not saying this has anything to do with my plans but the Harley logic is a two-edged sword. His explanation of how affairs develop equally applies to how a BS could detach from a WS. If we accept the premise that the relationship is based solely on the love bank balance determined by met EN's and we accept that affairs can happen because virtually anyone can potentially meet EN's, then a BS can look at a WS and ask "why stay with you?". BK is right - you do it for the kids. There is no other compelling motivation. Okay yes you may be able to fall back in love with the WS. But since you buy the Harley plan hook, line and sinker, you now understand that the WS is nobody special - they are replaceable. You don't love them any more. You could love them again - but you could also love a different person. The A and its aftermath destroys the WS's love bank balance to the BS.
Gemela says she won't have another affair because she doesn't want to go through all this again. Guess what? I don't either. The simplest solution to guarantee that is D. I told her that if she remains in an unhappy M, she will have another A. She did it once - she'll do it again because she found that it was the only thing that gave her pleasure. So there must be something more to add to the equation. There must be an active attempt at recovery. Just trying to pretend it will all be forgotten with time is not a good plan.
Gilbert the plan is a two-edged sword for sure.
Yes, if EN's are met you could fall in love with anyone. Obviously. But let's say you do divorce Gemela, how do you believe that would prevent you ever going through it again?
MrsK sure doesn't want to go through it again either - it hurts too much. But more than that, she now has the tools to make sure she does not make inappropriate LB deposits in anyone's account and no one makes them in hers. She is affair proofing our marriage as am I. AND we do love each other deeply and passionately and we have 3 wonderful children who hopefully won't be screwed up by this whole ordeal.
You have no idea how sincerely happy it makes me to hear that the two of you have been able to achieve this. You are both very lucky and very deserving.
If it is possible to sehd tears of total elation and profound sadness at the same time, that is what I am doing.
I got another email this AM. This one was much longer. I could see gemela doing all those things and yet she seemed like a complete stranger. I wonder if I know who I am really married to.
Gilbert......Have you ever consider that you simply dont love Gemela anymore? IT Does not matter what she does NOW, you will still feel uneasy and unhappy. Your love bank is completely in ZERo!!!
LOL!!!! I find this hilarious.
Gilbert, correct me if I'm wrong but Gemela's account balance in your love nank is well south of zero isn't it?
Which is not to say it is irrecoverable.
Not staying in a loveless marriage is a boundary for me.
But it does not have to be an either or proposition.
Okay long story short, according to OM's GF, pool boy was cheating on both of them. He was promising eternal love to both at the same time. GF saw WW at the pool and saw some interaction between PB and WW and suspected something but PB denied there was anything. PB tells WW that he had broken up with GF and she was long gone in the USA. So PB had a pretty good deal going.
GG- Thank you for thinking about us and wishing us well. We are doing very well for the longest time now. We will be in our 3 year mark very soon this year. (not so soon, but soon,June1st) Three year of DD. So I think we can say WE HAD MADE IT!! Things are wonderful!!
About you and Gemela though...like I said in my previous post. I think you simply dont have any more love for her anymore. She depleted all love you had for her , because of her lack of cooperation working in the marriage. She has been just "there".
I told gemela about the emails. I also told her I have had enough. She says the OMGF is just trying to get revenge and break us up. I said I don't agree but that if gemela is curious about OMGF's motives, she should write her and ask. I reminded gemela that the problem is not an email - the problem is an affair and years of cover up and refusal to face facts. She said we need more time. I asked to what end? She said for the kids. I said her mom stayed with her dad for her kids and gemela and her sister watched as dad went out every night chasing women. Does gemela want her DDs to have to grow up wondering who mom is out sleeping with every night? That would be a horrible thing for them. Anyway, we aren't speaking much at the moment. That's a good thing actually. I truly don't care any more.
GG- Can Gemela start posting here again? She needs to read from others, not only YOU, what she really needs to do if she wants the marriage to work. It seems she feels, she is doing the right thing, but she is really not!! And she needs to read it from other FWWs and BS.
I have neveer prevented gemela from posting. She chose to stop citing that MB was a waste of her time. She may feel differently now. Don't know. She has decided to stop going to her IC. I tend to agree with that one only because her IC is an idiot believing that Thai food will solve everything.
We may be well on the way to divorce when I get home. If not, I'll mention it to her. I doubt she will view it enthusiastically but you never know.
I think I know where you are...WH at one point told me to give him the book that described how a H should be so that he would know what my expectations are and how he should act...yeah, sure honey (as the book projectiles toward him and smacks him upside the head...just my imagination running away), anyway...point is although you may want G to behave a certain way, more than that you want her to do it out of her own initiative, motivation and willingness to please but mostly out of love for you right?
I think BK is correct in advising the MB at home course...it would allow you to gently guide over time your feelings and G's toward each other and rediscover one another...I am afraid you may need a facilitator thought b/c of the anger, resentment and lack of G cooperation. Can you do phone counseling with the Harley's and they can assign you work from the books?
Could you fly stateside for an MB w/e????
Come on Gil, you have reserve forces deep down in there, give it a rally to see what G has...start out with some marathon SF...that's always good for starters:)
So I take it you don't believe in the healing powers of chicken satay and koong kra prow?
A few things strike me, take or discard as you wish. First, the contact w/OM's ex-GF has certainly set you back. Yes, it was the A and the lying, but the emails have affected you at a visceral level. What if, instead of being defensive and saying that OMGF was trying to break up your marriage, Gemela expressed sadness and remorse that you were hurting?
There seems to be such a communications gap between the two of you. She very well may feel remorseful about the A, but chooses to cover it up with misplaced antagonism and ostrich-ism.
And yes, her parents' marriage doesn't sound like the best example to trot out in support of staying together for the children. But FOO issues run deep.
..."start out with some marathon SF...that's always good for starters:)"
This was something I could never manage too pull off. ex was not emotionally open, had no skills in communication & did not share himself with me. I was always longing for some emotional connection from him. I didn't identify that until I came here though. The point being, I didn't want sex with ex when he felt so far away & unreachable. He never understood that, kept saying he needed more sex. Who knows, 2much, maybe that approach can work for some people, for me it just made me feel used.
Ggrape, maybe now that G has seen you're not talking D due to hurt but seeing a future with no love for her, she may feel the heat under her [censored]. I hope she wasn't suggesting that her parents arrangement was acceptable for the two of you.
I imagine she's terrible afraid of losing what she has & your girls. That doesn't seem to have motivated her so far though. Have you asked her what might motivate her to actually do the work required to repair your M? You sound dangerously close to her efforts being too little too late.
There was a point where ex told me my efforts were too little too late. Was that true or did he lack the will to work hard to get back what we had? The promise of new love hanging in the wings didn't help.
G.Grape is a dorky name, despite what may be behind it.
Here's the image I get from the name: A cross between the Fruit of the Loom underwear guy & some stiff fancy pants pansy type with a bowler hat. But...that's just me?
Plus, there's no vowel at the end. I like the international flare that provides. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
LOL, Gil, Gil, Gil, Gil, GIL, GIL, GIL.....hhhhmmmmm would you rather be BERT, BERT, BERT?
I never intended for you to assume such an identity...I would have, as Nams referred, given you something with a mysterious and adventurous flare...what is the spanish term for stubborn? or enduring?
I believe it was your wondertwin who advised you to assume the GG????? Perhaps you should reconsider?
Well then why don't you all agree on a name you like. Remember that Eisenhower's mom supposedly named him Dwight so that there would be no possible way he could get a nickname. He ended up "Ike". Stubborn = terco. Not exactly mysterious with an adventerous flare. The last time a screen name was suggested for me it was recommended by cc46 (aka ccbis) who came up with the idea of "pendejo". While obviously appropriate, there was one poster who got mildly offended even though she agreed that it was a good fit for me.
And you do bring up a good point. Since "wildchild" was the one who urged me to change to GG and since he is certainly no longer here, why do I listen to him anyway? Actually why would I listen to him if he were still here?
The fact that BK finds head lice mysterious and full of adventure is quite telling. But at least I can now avoid "Gil".
Oh, it just occurred to me. Pool boy's last name is "Gill". Maybe that is what bother me?
On a lighter note, in an email from PBGF a few days ago she was talking about their relationship and how her best friend told her not to get involved with the guy - he was just a "pool boy". I had to laugh.
google "name generator"...you will find many opportunities to come up with a name...such as Javiero Macho which was what some Rum and Monkey "Ethnic Stud Name Generator" came up with for you! LOL
I have a stack of work waiting for me...have a blast
Well a brief update. Last night I came home from work fully prepared for divorce. Don't get me wrong - I am still on the edge. But, for her part, WW did a lot of "right" things.
LSS - I told her that she may believe she is doing good things and I may believe I am trying to do good things but the reality is that we are not anywhere near the same chapter - much less the same page. I told her I can see when she is troubled or sad but when I ask her she says otherwise. So what I see and what I hear don't add up. I assume the worst. I also said it is not fair for me to internalize but since she refuses to talk about the A, I have little choice. What I suggested is that we both try to change. I suggested that we say what we feel - no matter what it is. I told her that if she doesn't tell me something because she is afraid it will hurt me, that her lie by omission does far more damage than the truth ever could.
Oh, and I told her that I hate scrapbooking. She said she doesn't like doing it all the time and she thought that she should do it when I was around because I had made the comment that (months after we got the stuff) she hadn't even touched it and I said I would just throw it all away to make space for something else. [side note: for the uninitiated, scrapbooking takes a LOT of space] SO she did it in front of me to prove she was doing it. I told her that showing me a finished album after I got off work would achieve that same result without making me miserable in the process. I told her I don't like to help - that she is the smart, artistic creative one. If she needs perfectly cut rectangles or digitally modified photos, I'm the guy - but don't ask me if that saffron goes better with the navajo white or the dark goldenrod because if I say neither one and that I prefer the blanche dalmond, we just end up fighting.
Pio - have you ever shown her "Josephs Letter" about the need to know? There was also a good thread on what the BS needs to know - it was locked by Justuss but it was a good thread.
I sent it to her by email a couple of months ago. It remained unread or "marked as unread" for weeks. Now it has disappeared from her inbox.
The reality, however, is that I don't really care too much about the details of the A any more and the little things that still nag me, I doubt she knows the answers to because I tend to believe that se was, for the most part, duped by pool boy. I doubt many of the things he told her were completely true. So why dig up more lies? It will just make me more suspicious. I am more interested in that she be honest about NOW rather than what has past in that my complete indifference toward her has made the A more or less a moot issue. I love not caring! I highly recommend it.
I think it is actually killing you that you don't care...you are troubled by the lack of feeling...you were the one who once warned that if you made it to the point of indifference it would be BAD...so now that you are there you are wondering if there is a path from indifference to recovery....or as usual, I am totally off?
Doesn't it make you feel good that G was diligently trying to do something to please you??? Ok, so huge communications issues but the gesture in itself is worth some LB deposits...now you both know that scrapbooking won't be one of your joint recreational activities <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Does he just tell her what he wants and expects and have her start there? Besides doing the home study how can he help her to earn pio points on a daily basis?
Pio is very indifferent to Gemela right now and that probably is scary to him. Its much more difficult now to recover the marriage from indifference to love, is a larger gap. Gemela is really doing NOTHING to help the situation, maybe making things worse. Pio was his happiest when she was in Mexico and he was alone tending for their daughters. IF Gemela is a bit intelligent about the whole situation, she would get off her ... and start working in re-gaining Pio's love back.!!
Well no wonder you didn't like the name Gill-bert Grape. Sheesh.
It's good to hear that you're being honest and communicating. You dislike scrapbooking, and you are uncomfortable when she is obviously upset but lies and says she isn't. This is a small step in the right direction, IMO. The next step will be when she tells you something that upsets you, but is honest, and you can deal with it.
About the scrapbooking - perhaps it was also a way for her to show you that she is investing in the family. It strikes me, from what you have said, that G is probably not very good at communication, and you wind up having to infer things based on her behavior. That may continue until she learns how to communicate better.
I'm going to choose to see the positive in your latest posts. Gemela is "smart, artistic, creative" and she did a lot of "'right' things".
Did you tell her that she did right things? Positive reinforcement - it works well for dogs, children and FWWs.
Yes I did tell her that. Lately I have always made a specific point to do that. She even salivated but I'm not sure if it was because of what I told her or because the phone rang at the same time. Conditioned responses - so hard to judge in a non-clinical trial.
On an educational note, today I learned first hand how camels procreate. I also learned that the female camel doesn't seem to enjoy it much. It was difficult to explain to the DD's. I told them that the white camel was wanting to ride the brown camel but he weighed too much and the brown camel couldn't stand up and that is why she was complaining so much.
Myrta - in all honesty I don't think Gemela has the first clue in what she needs to do to regain Pio's love back. Pio needs to tell her and lead her as much as that sucks.
Well it is nice to be all clean again and, except for the clothes in the washer and the shoes yet to be cleaned, all traces of camel dung are no only a not-too-distant memory. We took a bus tour to a local camel market, souq, the largest oasis in the world and some caves. In retropsect, the first stop being the camel market might not have been the wisest choice. The only bright side was that we were on a bus. Gemela has a favorite expression: "fiesta de cochino en casa de vecino" which, roughly translated and adapted to the situation, means "if you absolutely have to get camel dung in a vechicle, it's much better to do it someone else's". I have to agree.
I seem to remember the last long bus ride I had involved me writing a divorce plan. Too much free time is generally a bad thing for me. This bus ride was two hours each way and the trip back especially left me with time for my thoughts.
The A did a lot of damage to my self-esteem. It hurts deeply that the one you love and trust and thought loved you essentially leaves you for someone else if not physically then certainly mentally. I may not be alone in that I have spent much of the last year trying to compete on a subconscious level with pool boy. How can I do SF better than him? How can I write poetry better than him? Okay, that last one was sarcasm I admit. But Plan A tells you to try to be an attractive option for your WS. Your only point of reference is that she obviously likes things about PB so you try to at least emulate some of those behaviors - at least I do.
Oddly enough, on this bus ride there was a man sitting in the seat in front of me who was obviously single and blatantly lonely. He practically drooled over most everything he saw with breasts. He spent more than his fair share of time oogling gemela at opportune moments throughout the day. For the caves, gemela took her abaya off so she was wearing jeans and a jacket (it was VERY cold here yesterday). As she got back on the bus, he was already seated. I watched him stare at her as she walked down the aisle and, as she passed by his row, his head jerked down so he could focus on her assets. I had to laugh. This guy didn't make me the least bit jealous. Throughout the day though I watched him get close to any woman he could and try to start a conversation. I told gemela I was watching all this. She had noticed too BTW. Women always know when men are watching them. Some kind of radar. I told her because it was bothering me and I didn't want to smolder all day. I told her instead. I didn't know whether she would get angry or not. She didn't. I did tell her to avoid him and I also said that if he tried to get near her that I would not blame her or be angry with her in the least but that, without hesitation, I was going to break his nose because the way I view it now is that if any predator comes in and tries to disrupt or hurt my family, he is not only attacking me but he is attacking my DD's and, to quote that brilliant philosopher Mr. T, "I pity the fool".
I no longer want to be PB. I don't want to be anything like PB. PB is worse than the scum that accumulates on the grout between the tiles no matter how much chlorine you put in the pool. If gemela does not like SF with me, she knows where she can go to get what it is she seems to like. If gemela is not happy with the lifestyle I provide, she knows where the suitcases are and I'll help her pack.
Now before BigK gets his knickers in a twist, yesterday was a great day. I was really happy. I wasn't happy with gemela necessarily - I was happy with me. So I decided that I need to start enjoying what remains of my life. Gemela is free to participate in that or hit the door. Her choice. I don't get the impression she is planning on going anywhere any time soon. Someone posted that she needs to get her rear in gear. I agree. I want to see ****** and elbows which, so as not to offend certain posters, will heretofore be euphamistically abbreviated as A&E.
I still have not broached Myrta's suggestion. I haven't really had a good opportunity. I plan to try today but I still don't think gemela will come back to MB. OTOH, it will be her choice one way or the other.
BIGKAHUNA---I think Gemela knows exactly what to do with her marriage,with Pio. She just does "not feel" like doing it. Its a lot of work and energy and dedication. She has complacency with her life right now. She is living well with Pio and the girls, what more can she ask for??
I don't get that impression. I feel like gemela would do a lot of things to try to improve the situation if she felt the situation were all that bad. But I do agree that she is complacent. Everything "seems" to be running along smoothly so why upset the apple cart. I don't think gemela is being self-serving in this. I think clueless is a better description. But that's just my take on it.
We went to the potter's caves in Al Hasa yesterday. We all got to see a demonstration of pottery being made by hand. Their work is only decorative as they have no kilns. It made me think of you. They spin the wheel with their feet.
Catching people,even children, being/doing good or the desired things and rewarding them for that is an excellent technique. Rewarding desired behaviors is so much better than the alternative.
All this talk of camels and abayas. I just saw Lawrence of Arabia the other night. I'd like to see a vast desert, preferably from atop a camel.
Cinderella understands what I'm saying about positive reinforcement. Hey, Pio, if you want to keep it all scientific, you could always ring a bell when you catch Gemela doing something right!
The only thing I have ever seen to match camels procreating is horses procreating. And camels have it over horses when it comes to the exotic factor. But horses don't spit, and I understand that camels do, with amazing accuracy. I also hear that they can be rather mean tempered....of course when I hear that I always assume that they are probably being mistreated by some nitwit.
Your mood seems to have elevated a bit. I prescribe more family outings with less creepy oglers. Make good memories.
Oh, and Pio? Gemela's A had absolutely nothing to do with you, the lifestyle you provide (which I gather is quite good), or the SF you share. I guarantee you that.
It was all about her feeling not so good about herself and doing the stupidest thing possible to feel better. I'm really getting the sense that she wants *you*, but her ostrich-like tendencies make her stick her head in the sand when it comes to the past, and only pop it out when she thinks it's "safe". MB and relationship books? Those are not safe - stick head in sand.
On our camel outing we learned how they taken care of orphaned camels. A female camel will normally reject a baby that is not her own and, without milk, it would die. So if a baby camel loses its mother, the trick is to blindfold a female camel and take a 2 liter plastic Coke bottle wrapped in cloth and they shove it up inside her. This confuses the femal camel into thinking she might be pregnant. Then, after a few days, they blindfold her again and bring the baby camel up beside her and pull out the Coke bottle. They remove the blindfold and watch as the female camel embraces her "newborn" baby. This apparently has a very high success rate.
This made me really sad. I couldn't help but think of all those baby camels that had died over the centuries before the invention of the plastic Coke bottle.
I did want to say thanks for that last post. It made me cry a bit - a lot actually.
You're welcome.
Quote
And, as Forrest Gump said, that's all I have to say about that.
That's one of my daughter's favorite movies. I'm very fond of saying "and that's all I have to say about that". Minus the drawl. I try for the drawl but it comes out wrong. My daughter goes to college in the south and is surrounded by by southern accents and <gasp> country music.
Fascinating stuff that pottery. Kick wheels are difficult, maintaining speed is a chore. How sweet you thought of me Pio.
We took a camel ride in Tunisia once. We went to a tourist store in what seemed to be the outskirts of an olive grove. A man was transporting his wife around in a cart pulled by a donkey & the ride was apparently rough because the wife shouted at the man as he nearly tipped her over.
They had an oven in which they cooked bread by making flat dough stick to the sides. I think it was made of clay, perhaps clay bricks, without a bottom & a fire is made within the oven which makes the clay sides heat up & retain heat for cooking the dough.
Pio, I felt responsible for ex seeking out another woman for too long. You know what? It was his choice based on the fact he was unhappy. I couldn't be responsible for his happiness. It was his job, as half of a married couple, to tell me he was unhappy then WE WORK together to solve the problems.
The same is true for G. She needs to figure out why she sought out someone else & share that with you. It was not, however, your responsibility to make sure she doesn't make the choice to seek out someone else. That is completely hers to own.
Well nams you are going to get me started aren't you?
First, the woman in the cart was obviously the man's girlfriend. In Tunisia, if they had been married, the woman would have been walking and the man would have been in the cart.
This is pure speculation but I can't help but correlate the fact that gemela never had an A in 7 years of marriage although she had ample opportunities. But 2 or 3 short months after we moved from Dubai to Saudi, she fell madly in love with and jumped in bed with pool boy after only knowing him for two weeks. This soulmate of hers for which she was going to abandon her children? She didn't even know his nationality. Now, as it turns out, he was two-timing her all along. She also hit a magical birthdate at which many women start to realize that age is a reality. IMO she had a mid-life crisis, she missed the glitter and excitement of Dubai and did not like the "normalcy" of Saudi. I think all of this happened because up to this point gemela's life, marriage and family had always been about her. I think her children were an adornment - a bit like jewelry or Italian shoes. They became another source of admiration for her and that, more than anything else, was their value to her. "Oh what wonderful children!" [they are extremely well behaved] or "Oh what beautiful little girls!" [the pictures are the proof].
Moving to Saudi was, over all, a good thing. It forced us all to focus on the family. It gave me time to be with the family. It got us out of a pretentious environment where everything and everyone is a façade. While this was all good, it happened so quickly it was like a cold slap in the face. In a sense, I think gemela felt like her life was over. The way she was living it certainly was. I have also noticed that, no matter how much gemela would tell me she hated Saudi, when she talks to complete strangers about it, she says how wonderful and exciting it is (and she is being sincere because I can hear it in her voice and I know her backward and forward).
Being here is forcing gemela to understand that the world no longer revolves around her. We, as parents, have to put our children first and look to the needs of the family ahead of our own. I think the A was an act of rebellion - the ultimate denial.
Whatever the cause, it has hurt me more than I knew was possible. Each day I live and even as I try to pick up the pieces and hope that the M can be recovered, a part of me wishes to see gemela at the bottom of the stairs with her two suitcases. Each day she remains here, a part of me feels cheated. In a sense, I feel recovery is still all about her. She wanted to have the A so she just did it. Didn't ask my opinion. Now we need to recover because she has decided that is what she wants? It just seems selfish and egocentric (is that redundant and superfluous?).
For me to remain in this M, I have to alter my concept of M. I have to view M as being a union of convenience. As long as you are both happy, you stay together. If you aren't happy, you find someone else or go it alone. Because viewing it any other way just pisses me off. Maybe if gemela had any real remorse, it would be different. But if she chooses to view M that way, then I will too. No I don't intend to have an A. I will just go it alone. I was happier when she was in Mexico. In fact I was very happy then. All I want is full custody.
I know pool boy was nothing. The A was about the A - not about a person. It could have been anyone but gemela doesn't understand that. The A was about gemela feeling sorry for herself. Pool boy was an opportunist.
BTW, I know I don't really believe that marriage is disposable. This is an anger management strategy that I have adopted and it seems to work. It is my coping behavior. I don't vent this or share this with gemela. I think it helps me in that I was very reluctant to want to recommit after she came back from Mexico and I saw that as a serious impediment to R. Now I seem to be more inclined to meet gemela half way and am opening up more because I tell myself I always have an exit strategy. I am not at a position where I can force myself to recommit unconditionally. I still have a lot of anger but it seems to be more in check now. Some day this attitude will have to change but, for the moment, it keeps me sane (or the most reasonable facsimile I am capable of).
To be honest I don't really spend too much time thinking about pool boy. He is not a big concern of mine. If I did see him on fire, I definitely would cross the street to piss on him. That would be the humanitarian thing to do. I wouldn't call 911 to get him to a burn center though but that's mainly because I don't own a (working) cellphone any more. I'm sure some other passerby would take care of it.
Firstly, I wish to thank you all for your best wishes and for thinking of me. I have been trying to catch up on your lives and it warmed my heart when someone would mention my name in a post - thank you. I am sorry it has taken me so long to be up to posting here. I am having trouble sleeping these days so decided to take the step this morning and do something worthwhile with my time.I think Liz told you that I had a double mastectomy. The cancer was only in one breast but they advised the removal of both as a prophylactic measure. Depending on many things I may have reconstructive surgery in the future.
My dear friend Liz printed your replies to her post and brought them to me to read. We spent a lot of time discussing you all so if your ears were burning that is why! Liz is now one of the many lurkers on MB. She is astounded by the attachments you form. So Liz if you read here - Yes you are my best friend and my strength and I love you with all my heart.
I am doing quite well now. Still having radiation and lots of physical therapy as lifting my arms these days seems one of the hardest things I have done in my life. I think it will be awhile before I try paddling... This has been a tough one to handle both physically and mentally but I am coming along thanks to the wonderful support of my loving family and incredible friends. Plus as always, I am wrapped in the arms of my Lord.
I have been trying to catch up on TKO/MB but am way behind so will post again soon when I know what is happening with you all.
I do have one request though. I have added a link here that I hope works. It is to a site to sign a petition to stop drive by mastectomies. I was treated so well and came home to home nursing. Some poor women go home the same day as the surgery due to insurance and their families do all their drainage changes etc. This petition is to mandate a minimum 48-hour stay in hospital. I really would appreciate you taking the time to sign the petition.
Thank you again and I hope the New Year has started well for you all.
Hi Beth! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> so happy to see you here again! You were missed.
I'm so sorry for all you are dealing with.
I substituted an art class the other day. All the kids in the school keep a journal in which they write responses to specific prompts. The prompt this day was "If I had one wish my wish would be...". Of course, being middle school, many of the wishes centered around money, fame, shopping & becoming a sports hero. However, there were several that were thoughtful & heart breaking to read, having to do with the health of loved ones.
I thought of you & your boys, Beth, in reading these, knowing how much love these kids have for those they hold dearest to them.
Pio, did I really "get you started" & is that a bad thing or is the posting you're doing an excellent way to sort through & understand what's happening in your internal life?
Forgot to mention I'm back on match.com & had a date Friday. He is nice, he wrote me a sweet email the following day & phoned me. We have both said we'd like to see each other again. If there's anything to report, I will.
Welcome back...I am soooooooo happy you have returned and are on the road to recovery. I have NO DOUBT that you will whip this just as if it were a marathon or triathalon with surg/XRT/Chemo as the phases. Reconstruction??? If you do it, do it for you and you alone, not for any other reason.
How are you, the kids, WH? Has this challenge pulled you all closer together? Sounds like your best friend has been battling along with you. What can we as your TKO family do to aid in your recovery? I have missed your inspiration and insightfulness not to mention your company!
Take your time, take care of you and give us a holler when you feel up to it.
wow 2regret, this is a serious mix of emotions. We're just glad you are back and we can hear from you again. You certainly put my problems in perspective for me. I don't think I am violating any confidence here since it is a matter of public record but Todd apparently got a driver's license. Between you and me, I would avoid the greater Atlanta metropolotan area for a while.
Nams, yes you did get me started but I didn't mean that to be a criticism. I seem to be undergoing a sort of evolution in my whole way of thinking. This last two weeks may have been the strangest of the last two years. In a nutshell, deciding to divorce may end up being the very thing that saved the M. Time will tell.
In watching the guy with the kick wheel, I now see where I may have made some miscalculations with the inverted drill press. It was spin rate. I have a new contraption that ties a spindle through a belt to the back wheel of DD2's bicycle. I propped up the back wheel so she can spin without moving. I admit I got the idea from Gilligan's Island.
I'm sorry FF I haven't yet read my emails. I lost my way there for awhile and was stumbling around in some strange world. Believe me you wouldn't have wanted to hear from me! My aim is to catch up this week and I thank you for thinking of me.
I am slowly working my way through the posts that I have missed and am actually saddened and surprised that there are not more. It appears that TKO has suffered through a very turbulent time. Thank you to those faithful ones that kept the thread alive while so many were absent.
I have decided to take the easy way out and concentrate on one poster at a time. Due to my shock and disappointment you are first Todd. I am so upset to read you have decided not to post at the moment. I understand you feel that your privacy has been invaded by your WW and I am very sorry. I must admit to being awed by her tenacity and ability to find you but I so wish she hadn't.
In the same breath I also hope that reading here may have caused your WW even a fraction of the pain she has inflicted. It cannot be enjoyable for her reading your posts regarding your M and I just hope that it awakens in her a new understanding of her deceit and betrayal.
I will really miss you Todd; your humor has cheered me many times and I could do with some of it now... I also pray that you are doing well. I hope that someone will keep us updated on you until you can return. I wish you well Todd and will always keep you in my prayers.
Thank you for the welcome back... not too sure about the nuts comment though!
Your post appearing above mine really accentuates my slow typing. It wasn't there when I began my post. lol Mind you my post was twice that length I had to clean it up as I realized I was venting at Todd's WW...
How have you been BigK? Is it a good summer so far?
I have been wanting to post just couldn't manage it till now. I guess you don't realize what muscles are used for what until you find out the hard way. I still have days when I don't want to get out of bed.
I loved your country and hope to come back one day. I envy you your summer it has been incredibly cold here - not normal for us. My garden has been destroyed by frost/ice.
I remember you are heading to Vegas but where else are you going? Have you ever been over here before?
Hi Pio, Thanks for your kinds words earlier. I was awfully relieved to see that you returned to TKO. I bet you miss your partner in crime though. I haven't caught up with all your posts yet so will comment later.
BigK, make sure you brings clothes for the cold weather with you. Have you booked somewhere in Vegas yet? Three weeks vacation sounds like such a long time - you are very lucky.
...all quite in PLAN B country....got a chance to meet up with some friends...and TOTALLY enjoying boys' week being home....
...glad to see you are 'opening' up more, Pio..
...Todd has a driver's license?....NOTED!
...Geesh Beth....glad to see you back...you certainly have been missed!
stph20...what's the countdown for OW being gone from WS workplace?
...BigK... I guess you will be too busy enjoying your trip to 'keep in touch'....but if you can...please let us know how trip is going...
but seriously, stph20...speaking of St.Louis...anything to see or do in St.Louis?....considering a conference being held there in the Spring... according to Pio....not much...LOL!
Hi Nams, 2much and all the rest...
...in a few days...I am going away for...'a few days'
...not far...not crossing any 'borders' anyway...and managed to plan a pit stop to see my parents...and will most likely get a chance to see my Big Brother!...
...I got the 'cleaning bug' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.....been chipping away at it...closet by closet....and some renovation projects.....because I realized when the good weather gets here...I like spending it OUTSIDE...and I have plans for it, too.....so...I am trying to take advantage of the COLD SEASON....geesh...it's gotten really cold up here in the last week or so...
Off to do some work....
P.S. anybody have any news from Larousse?.... I find it a bit strange her leaving TKO without a 'word'....but then...that's how she needed to do it maybe...
stph20...what's the countdown for OW being gone from WS workplace?
countdown is 4 more days! Her last day is Friday. I haven't had much to update on...just been waiting for this to happen. I've had a couple of questions and freak-outs, but BigK always manages to be there for me and calm me down and answer my questions. I think he thinks I'm actually doing OK! Although he STILL manages to kick my [censored] every now and then...I don't know how he does it.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
but seriously, stph20...speaking of St.Louis...anything to see or do in St.Louis?....considering a conference being held there in the Spring... according to Pio....not much...LOL!
Yes, Pio is quite the comedian, isn't he? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I don't live directly in St. Louis, I live east of. But I think BigK will have, or should make, plenty of time to come by this way to meet me, since I can't go to Orlando anymore! But to answer your question luna, there's always the Arch, the zoo, the art museum, the botanical gardens (beautiful), there are a few great malls...the Galleria is my favorite. Lots of shopping to do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That always makes me happy!
there's always the Arch, the zoo, the art museum, the botanical gardens (beautiful), there are a few great malls...
Wow, Luna - you certainly can't see those things anywhere else! What is a "mall"?
St. Louis does have an arch but I can go to any odd street corner on most any country on the planet and see TWO of them - and they are GOLDEN! Think they are small? Just get super-sized.
I think they have riverboat dinner cruises. Because the gaming laws are a bit different between Missouri and Illinois, I think there may even be river boat casinos. Apparently a small strip of the Mississippi between St. Louis and East St. Louis has been declared "International Water". I have been to Laclede's Landing but have never been up in the Arch. I am sure I'm all the lesser for it.
There is something else St. Luois is famous for but it escapes me at the moment.
but seriously, stph20...speaking of St.Louis...anything to see or do in St.Louis?....considering a conference being held there in the Spring... according to Pio....not much...LOL!
Let's not forget that St. Louis is home to the 2006 World Series Champion St. Louis Cardinals !!
What about catching a game while your in town?
And I hope you get to stay here while you're in town.
It's been a while since I've been here, very busy moving to a new house, new school for kids, etc... Beth, I wish you a good recovery. Pio, It's so nice to read your posts again. I was wondering how you've been and wishing you an easier journey towards recovery. I understand that Todd is not posting, but I saw Big K is active and well, luna, steph, hi to all...
Pio - there is a furrier nearby where they are having a sale on chinchilla and sable. Do you want me to stop in and ask them if they are interested in hamster fur muffs?
BTW I am going to mention this once and then will never bring it up again. I am not referring to anyone specifically as the list is multiple. If anyone posts here something that they feel maybe I should comment on and feels ignored because I don't, it may very well be the case. For reasons that I don't think had anything directly to do with me (I may never know for sure), some posters who occasionally come here post in a seemingly friendly manner turn right around on other threads and post very negative things about me. Since I don't usually read those other threads, I find out about this second-hand but in examining the posts, I see that what was told to me is quite true.
I decided that I have enough problems dealing with a two-faced WW and I don't need to add to that by dealing with two-faced posters on MB. So I have carefully identified those individuals and have placed them on my "ignore" filter list. Now I see that they post but am blissfully unaware of what they say or, in a sense, I am totally klueless which I find refreshing.
I had hoped to quit MB entirely when these recent comments were made known to me. I reluctantly came back for reasons which were not my own. I'm still uncertain that it was the right decision.
All I can say is that if anyone finds me in the least bit offensive, please place me on your ignore list and don't read this thread. If you cannot be compelled to do either of those things, do the next best thing and keep your comments to yourself.
Just to put all this in perspective, at the moment I have about 6 people on my ignore list and no lemonman, you have not yet been elevated to that status. All I can say is keep trying. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
there's always the Arch, the zoo, the art museum, the botanical gardens (beautiful), there are a few great malls...
Wow, Luna - you certainly can't see those things anywhere else! What is a "mall"?
St. Louis does have an arch but I can go to any odd street corner on most any country on the planet and see TWO of them - and they are GOLDEN! Think they are small? Just get super-sized.
I think they have riverboat dinner cruises. Because the gaming laws are a bit different between Missouri and Illinois, I think there may even be river boat casinos. Apparently a small strip of the Mississippi between St. Louis and East St. Louis has been declared "International Water". I have been to Laclede's Landing but have never been up in the Arch. I am sure I'm all the lesser for it.
There is something else St. Luois is famous for but it escapes me at the moment.
You don't have to get snippy Pio. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I may not live in the greatest city in the world, but our zoo is one of the best in the country, 2nd only to San Diego. I did forget to mention that we do have a new baseball stadium, and yes, the Cardinals did win the World Series this year...I couldn't care less about baseball, so that may be why I didn't mention it, but the new stadium is nice.
I don't even go to St. Louis that much, I mostly stick with my hometown and areas surrounding it in IL, I'm just trying to get BigK to check it out (and keep luna from being bored)! Don't ruin it for me Pio! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
St. Louis is famous for toasted ravioli.
We do have riverboat casinos. Casino Queen is close to downtown. We don't have riverboat restaurants anymore, that I can think of anyway.
Laclede's Landing is fun. Lots of bars and restaurants and nightlife.
When are you going to be in town luna? I'll see what's going on then and let you know.
I reluctantly came back for reasons which were not my own. I'm still uncertain that it was the right decision.
I for one was thrilled at your return but if it is counterproductive for your personal life???? What the heck does the above quote mean? Who's reasons Pio? Just tell me if I am too nosey or direct but that's just me (imagine being my WH??? LOL).
What's up with all this?
Don't know if you read my yoo-hoo to Faithful Follower but I am going through the same questions you are asking yourself with the exception of I am asking WH and he is asking me...
I heard something today that struck me, made me sad and yet in some strange way hopeful that I could once achieve it with someone...they said "Your marriage is the most important relationship you will have on earth" I think we all tend to take it for granted at different times in our lives. I am at the point that I am yearning for this to just magically happen...I'm sure it is tons of work but can imagine that it would be very fulfilling, comforting and secure to know that you had reached that point...guess it's just as hard to maintain as is to achieve or maybe even more so
Just a bit of flight of ideas
I've been grossly depressed these days so don't post too much but do read/lurk
I see you as making such gains since the summer Pio, I know on a day by day basis it must be extremely difficult but you are not a quitter and you are just slam in the middle of the marathon...if you make it up the next hill then going down will be even sweeter...hang in there Pio
PS. If you talk to your wondertwin give him my regards and let him know I am thinking and praying for him since his silent departure
Sorry but can't answer. If I were to be totally honest, Justuss would go crazy.
Posting here sometimes is counterproductive. I recognized that a couple of months ago. Being aware of it helps. I agree that there has been significant evolution since the summer. I now estimate (and I'm sure most would agree) that I am a neanderthal. I do talk to the boy wonder on occasion. He seems to be doing well and fortunately for us has not managed to get behind the wheel of a car yet. Small favors...small favors.
I did see the thread but didn't read it. I assumed it was for FF. I also try to limit the threads I read. I get updates on a couple (including this one) via email otherwise I avoid MB as best I can. Part of this healing process is trying to not think about the A 24/7. If you are sitting and reading MB all day and night, it is hard to keep infidelity out of your thoughts. So MB is helpful but you have to keep it in perspective. Take it with moderation rather than an addiction.
WW knows I post here but also knows I spend little time doing it. She doesn't like me posting but not enough to get really bothered by it. I think what bothers her most is that it is a reminder to both of us and, as I have said before, she would rather bury her head in the sand.
I have told her she is free to read anything I post. I'm hiding nothing. I also asked if she ever thought about posting here again. She said she has no desire.
I'm still emailing with pool boy's GF. I don't start them but I answer hers. It seems to be doing her a lot of good and she sounds like she is beginning to heal. I'm glad because she seems like a nice girl. It is odd though seeing the affair through her eyes. When I hear about things gemela used to do, it makes me embarrassed for her. Apparently what she thought she was being so clever about and keeping it such a secret, everybody (and I mean everybody) knew. PBGF also supports the concept of a MLC for gemela. Now I wonder what people are whispering behind our backs. It doesn't bother me if they are. Just makes me wonder.
BTW 2much, I encourage you to send Todd an email. I know he would like to hear from you.
Now Mr. Wizard, I have a question that is puzzling me this AM. Considering electricity and path of least resistance and ignoring variances in population and only looking at it on a per capita basis, do you think the the average citizen in No Trees, Texas has a significantly higher probability of being killed by lightning strike than the average citizen of Thousand Oaks, California?
Just to be clear, I do mean KILLED - not just struck. I have to clarify that because many people who are struck by lightning while near a tree are only hit by secondary charges.
It is important for me to know because we are talking about where we will eventually retire to and your answer will influence our decision.
Now I wonder what people are whispering behind our backs. It doesn't bother me if they are. Just makes me wonder.
One thing that I've learned through all of this, and all of life, is that while people might be interested in tawdry gossip at first, eventually human nature takes hold. By that I mean that people are ultimately much more interested in *their own* condition and situation than they are in others'. It's self-interest.
Pio, the reasons that you give for limiting your posting/reading time are quite sound. My H felt that MB was hindering our recovery and contributing to his feelings of anger. He doesn't really post anymore, and I take long breaks. As recently as two days ago he told me that my reading MB bothered him. (And yet I know he was reading infidelity sites last night after I went to bed.) I had been limiting my MB time to when he was not around; I may have to stop coming here completely if it becomes a roadblock to recovery.
Of course, for some people, immersion in infidelity helps. Some BSs wish their FWSs would post and/or read. Basically we all have to do what is right for our recovery. It sounds like you are moving in the right direction; it's just that progress in recovery occurs at a frustratingly glacial pace.
Ask you H if he would be interested in talking to me off MB. Maybe we can communicate. If so, I'm not exactly sure how to do it but we could find a way. I was not really sure of your story. I did find a post of yours from about 12 months ago. It was somewhat disturbing. Okay - very disturbing. If I can help in any way, I will.
Of those people who talk about me behind my back, I can look them all in the eye.
For me the anger burns low but long. Maybe it does for your H too.
I will ask him tonight after our son's game. My H's anger was at peak around the 10 month time frame; that was probably when the shock wore off. Now it's on simmer - burning low as you say, and I'm sure it will continue that way, flaring up from time to time.
My time is very limited these days. I've just started a new online class, An American History focusing on Native Americans , & there is lots of reading.
Let me save you some time. We took their land away. Now they all own casinos and are getting it all back plus interest.
All joking aside, I do have a very interesting letter about the trail of tears I found a little by accident. I'll find the link and post it. I think I may have posted it here long ago but it has been a while.
PIO, people who gossip move on to new targets when they get bored. Likely they have moved on to new targets already. I wouldn't worry too much, after all the shame is Gemela's and not yours. You did not cause the A.
2much, I did reply a couple more times. Did you catch them? I could bump the thread if you need me to. How are you?
I don't worry about the gossip. I didn't do anything to be ashamed of. If gemela ever feels any shame as a result, she owns it. I'm also certain that there are plenty of people here who are in no position to be doing any stone casting. I guess though it does make me wonder sometimes if people (men) who know about it might think "hey - she's available!". I do remind gemela from time to time to maintain boundaries - not friendships with men, no regular phone calls with men, no golfing with men, etc. I hate doing it. I always try to do it in as non-LBish a way as possible but I always feel terrible after doing it. I wish I would stop. I guess what makes me feel worst is that it makes me feel like a hypocrite. It seems like I am trying to control her to not have an A which everyone here has taught me is her right if she so chooses. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Let's just say it makes me internally conflicted.
Okay Mr. Wizard. I can't draw you out of hiding on the lightning question so I have another.
It is known that an electrical current moving through a conductor induces a magnetic field around that conductor whose strength is proportional to the current. It is also proven that a conductor moving through a magnetic field (i.e. cutting across lines of magnetic flux) will cause an electrical potential to be induced in that conductor and that the potential will be proportional to the rate at which the flux lines are cut. So - if electricity and magnetism are so closely related, should they be allowed to marry? (note: not applicable in Arkansas).
Super busy with my newest project (sucking the life out of me slowly but fun)...tons of work btwn my homework and helping 3 kids do homework nightly, not to mention all the extracuricular stuff...you'd think I have not time to worry about the wayward...WRONG Nothing new to talk about on that front
FF...got your posts, thank you for your input. I always feel like since our sitches are pretty unique that at least if I bounce it off of you I can gauge how real I am being or how foggy I may be from enduring
I am in limbo all around still...looking for the silver lining...I guess a big plus is at times no action is better than bad action...kids are breaking my heart...my son is slowly sliding into the "man of the house" role and has been trying to comfort me and do "extra's" around the house...he is so sweet and sensitive...DD1 has been brokenhearted several times due to not enough dad time...DD2 just gets more mature and verbalizes everything I think aloud to her dad, I swear she has the gift of mind reading and is fearless and will basically just tell it like it is no matter who she is speaking to...we'll have to work on that as she ages!!!
Pio, thanks for the advice about the wondertwin, perhaps I will try.
Nams, good luck in your class, hope you enjoy it.
Stph how are you? OW still at work?
BK, getting all geared up for the big vacation?
Beth, if you are reading, hope you are hanging tough...you can do this. Let us know how you are when you get the energy. We are all thinking of you.
Luna, hello. What have you been up to.
Going out to play in the snow with the kids despite the fact that it is past their bedtime and a school night. You only live once, right?
Heard a few profound things recently: 1) Your marriage is the most important relationship you will have on earth
2 It is not the value of what we have in our hand that matters it is ....(ok, my kids just fired me up and interrupted so gotta go deal with some FUN; back later)
Well that wasn't very nice. It's a bit like saying:
It finally occurred to me that the perfect solution to an affair and the way to get any marriage back on track and into recovery is...oops DD1 just woke up and I have to go make her chocolate milk.
Pio, Thank you for posting the letter. I'll be back in a few hours to read it & print it out. It looks like something I may want to share with the class.
One thing that really surprised me about that letter was the English. It had its differences, of course, but it still seems not too unlike the English of today. I guess I was expecting something more like dialogue from a Gary Cooper western.
Yes, that was interesting to me too, Pio. I've only had a chance to glance over the letter. I want to give it a thorough reading later when I have time.
Sorry Pio that I stopped midthought but we had a huge meltdown last night and needed immediate attention...
So sad, DS is really taking his male responsibility to heart and he is breaking my heart...he begged me today to let him help me more...he broke down crying saying that he is so frustrated that I don't ask him for help and don't let him help me. He is only 9 1/2 but he sees me struggling with juggling everything...he verbalized that he "hates my laptop" as he sees it cutting into potential "family time". I am carrying a full load in grad school and working on my final project which is extremely time consuming. I do spend tons of time with the kids but it's usually with homework, taking them back and forth to soccer, scouts, clubs etc and then some agreed on activities that we all do together...seems like it is not enough to fill the gaping hole left by the WH...
Anyway I totally lost my thought from my previous message...here is some fun stuff though
Must be nice Pio!!! Guess I should not have assumed that everyone would find humor in it...those privileged to live there would think I was being presumptive??? Shoot, I'd just like a free pass to visit the neighborhood:)
I know you were trying to be humorous and it is funny in its way. But I read it and I think I have a pretty nice address. I guess I could try taking baths. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Okay. My bad. You are VERY trying. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Seriously, I see so many familes in much worse conditions. I see husbands around me who totally ignore their wives and families. I look at what we had and sometimes find it hard to believe that WW tossed it all away. Can't change that though. I'm watching the neighbor across the street. She is on slow burn and about to explode IMHO. She has become the classic golf widow. It has gotten so bad that she snipes at anybody who plays golf. He plays 7 days a week.
I wrote the longest post and it was so full of heartfelt emotion and info...all lost:(
In summary, I have taken to the philosophies of Victor Frankl and his logotherapy. In short people who dwell on the past have poor outcomes compared to those who see hope in the future and work toward the future...
Just wanted to say a very quick hello to everyone. I feel terrible that I reappeared just to disappear again. I ran into a bit of a problem with an infection and haven't been feeling too well. I will post again soon. I thank you all for your best wishes and just wanted to let you know not to worry about me. Sorry I haven't been up to replying to your emails but it is easier to do one post here at the moment. Think I may have pushed myself a bit too hard. See you soon.
Well it is a sad day. I am so very sorry but it just became necessary to cull the hamster herd. The evil mama hamster was living in a bucket by herself at the last. She couldn't even get along with the two children who had miraculously survived her cannabalistic tendencies. I finally made the decision. WW was hesitant. She said maybe she won't bite any more. I told her to stick her finger in to find out. She did. The hamster seemed timid at first but suddenly began screaming like a banshee, reared back on her hind feet and made a six inch vertical leap for WW's finger. I told the DDs that I was going to sell her to a friend at work. I took the writhing beast on my way to the commisary and let her out in a green area a mile from the house. When I got back to the house, the children were crying (they will sell the baby hamsters in a heartbeat (and even forget to get paid!)). WW blamed me for it all. I just don't understand how that devil hamster became Mother Theresa in the collective memories of WW and the DDs in the short time I was at the grocery store. Yet another case of rewriting history. Good thing I don't live in the USA or I would be facing litigation from Yumna's parents over the mauling she got when she came to visit DD2.
I have no idea what happened to the demon pet but I did hear this morning that three neighborhood cats are missing. I'm keeping a low profile.
Hugz and prayers Beth. I know you must be struggling but I also know you are resilient and brave and will walk away from this with new appreciation, friends and pearls of wisdom. Hang in there and know you are missed and we think of you often and wish you comfort and peace in your journey. Write when you feel up to it we look forward to updates! 2mhb
LOL. Will the girls be wearing black today? It is funny how perspectives can change so quickly eh? I must say I am guilty of the same at times (not spurred by hamsters but I guess it could be possible). I will not TRY to be humorous as I know my attempts are not appreciated <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Is G actually mad at you for the hamster dump? In the long run you will be the hero but in DDs eyes I am sure you will be the villian for quite some time.
Short story...while at the pet store DD1 and I ran into a woman giving away free bunnies...DD2 had been begging for one forever and B-day was coming up...I made tragic mistake of taking one, buying supplies and surprising DD2...after less than 24 hours my 2 dogs trying to eat it, my cat upset and marking her territory and my DD2 crying b/c the bunny "didn't do anything or play with her" I ended the misery by telling DD2 that sometimes life is not fair, I made a bad decision by taking the bunny, it was unfair to all the other animals and to her and I returned it to the pet shop.
We all learned a lesson but to this day 2 years after the fact I remain the bad-guy who once teased DD2 with a bunny and made her return it:)
Best of luck in redeeming yourself in the Hamster saga...best thing is stick to your ground and do nothing...trying to replace with other material items will not suffice so don't waste time/$/effort! JMHO
I'm not too stressed about the hamster although WW still prods me with it. I made a decision and that's that.
We have bunnies here on camp and people often let them go for the reasons you mentioned (good idea gone bad). They congregate more around the golf course than anywhere else. My neighbor is not the best golfer but he tries very hard. One day he was playing and hit a fairly good drive but a bunny was crossing the fairway at the time. Ball hits bunny - bunny dies. Unfortunately this is a true story.
The worst part is that my neighbor is not the least bit upset about killing a bunny. He is far more concerned that he missed his only chance at par by a hare. (also true).
Ahhhhhhhhh. I was kid-free last eve. I could have been so earlier in the eve but WH specifically invited me to go to dinner with he and kids. I went. My final comment to him prior to his leaving with kids...if you want alone time with me you need to arrange for a babysitter. We'll see if that idea takes off or not.
It's the most bizarre situation but for some crazy reason I want to leave the door open and continue on the high road. At least BK would be proud as tempting as it was (and yes, I was dying) no SF. I was also struggling with wanting to go out after they all left but I know myself well and stayed home free from temptations and got some work done. I think my taker is peeking out looking around and I am having to shove it back where ever it came from...
Well, thanks for the laugh Pio. I will be diving back into my pile of work before the kids return.
Nams...yeah....was seriously set for plan B when WH decided to start showing interest, exchange information, provide some insight and honesty...was it a tease, manipulation etc? I don't know but I figured I would ride the wave and see where it goes and move to plan B once I crashed or I knew it was bull...still riding. Is he really being honest? I have no idea b/c I refuse to waste $ to snoop/validate/whatever. If he actually gets to the point that he wants to make a real move to come home I will be sure to follow FF advice and make him prove his worthiness. At this point he is only making statements that he is trying to be the man I want, that he is making an effort etc. His actions are gradually improving in respect to the kids and trying to do more to help me (no way nearly what I think it should be but a start I guess). I will protect us and see where this takes us. I am still in limbo for relocation as well so without a definite direction I will ride as long as I can stand it.
How are things with you? I can r/t school work as mine is piled in my bed next to me...I am queen procrastinator so I'm sure I'll be diving in deep by late tonight!
Pio, You are a mess! Too bad you are continents away...I would smack you or at minimum toss a boot at you with your wise [censored]!
I guess I understand your waffling. I had mine with cinnamon. I do think, however, that you have to set the bar somewhere for the both of you. Settling for "well, that's not too bad and really could be much worse" does you no favors and. more importantly, creates confusion for WH.
I think maybe I saw what Dobson described as the bird seeing its new found freedom in my case. Maybe that's where your WH is too. I gave WW everything she thought she wanted and suddenly she didn't really want it any more. I guess I am suggesting that you keep your boundaries very clearly defined. Go pee on a few trees. It was funny to watch but, in my case, I found that the more clearly I defined okay from not okay, the happier WW seemed to be about it. I got the impression she didn't want to have to think for herself. It was less stress on her when I did it for her. For my part, it went against the grain but I just did it (and still do to an extent).
I may have mentioned this before but I'll repeat if necessary. For the past 6 months or so, WW has been telling me I should check up on her, should have her followed, prove she is being honest. I have consistently told her that is not my responsibility and I would much prefer divorce. No husband should have to constantly check up on his wife to ensure she is being faithful. That isn't any kind of marriage and isn't any kind of life - at least not one I am willing to sign up to. It is her job to prove she is telling the truth - not mine. I can't be bothered. I can't imagine that the vast majority of the people I work with are thinking all day "gee I wonder is spouse is at home or is off screwing a pool cleaner". Most don't ever have to give that a thought. The fact that I do is unpleasant. I could get divorced for no other reason than that. I don't follow her. I'm not checking up on her. I observe what is in front of me. If it doesn't add up, we clear the air. I do check to see who she is getting emails from. I don't read them. I do check to see who is calling the house during the day but not routinely because I forget. AFAIK, once I found the cell phone calls, she never again made or received calls in the house. I don't expect she would get sloppy now (unless she really wanted to get caught). She could easily be doing something behind my back. I would still know. I watch her expressions, her moods and her body language. This is a little dangerous because my interpretations are influenced by my own moods. This is where being completely honest with gemela about how I am feeling at any given moment has really helped.
Yes waffling...what the heck are you talking about cinnamon???? AM I that far gone that I can't follow?
WH keeps telling me that the thing keeping us together is what is also keeping us apart...twice today referred to this...meaning the kids. I told him that was an excuse...he gave me the FU...I told him to finish the dissolution papers...he said "you got it" so I guess I have lept from the fence.
Tired of all of the games. Guess if it's meant to be then it will work out later. Feel bad but no energy or interest left. Fine
Hopefully I will get orders soon and have some direction to my life aside from trying to make it from day to day I will have something to look forward to, a new beginning somewhere...just so it's not here. I need a fresh start with some new scenery!
I am right with you in the snoop dept...who wants to babysit the rest of their life and especially when the WS is wanting you to check...it is when they don't expect it that you would want to check and as you referred they know all the tricks...can buy phone cards, prepaid phones, etc they are not likely to get sloppy unless they want to be caught or are so fogged out they don't care. I honestly think that G is just looking for approval, pat on the back, some kind of validation that she is doing well in her attempts to behave...it stinks but she may need some positive reinforcement from you Pio...you may need to reward her good behavior <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
WH keeps telling me that the thing keeping us together is what is also keeping us apart
Okay my response to this would be: can you explain that once again - and in English this time? and then walk away. That is a conversation to be avoided. The thing keeping you apart is adultery. Don't ever allow him to shift the blame.
Quick! Go look in the mirror - just in case I'm wrong and maybe you really DO have "stupid" written all over your forehead as WH seems to think you do.
LOL. He is pissed but I am too tired to battle. I will hopefully get all the legal issues taken care of in the next 2 weeks and go from there.
He is now planning on taking some more furniture since I had the nerve to piss him off...whatever. I'd rather sleep on the floor at this point.
He is still quite attractive to me but I'm sure I could find chemistry with someone else if I actually looked. I have been the perfect BS never looking outside M, no interest in OMs as I had my hands full with the one I had.
No plans on initiating a 2mhb search...I can make myself miserable or happy alone...need lots of time to figure out what I really want. Looks like a new chapter shall begin...
Okay I know you don't like to walk away from a fight but as long as you are fighting, he thinks you still care. Learn to walk away. In my case it wasn't until I decided I was totally done and didn't care any more that gemela really seemed to get her butt in gear. I was doing everything I could to push her away at that point but she was like my HPV - just couldn't get rid of her.
Always darkest before the dawn? Maybe. It wasn't until I totally (and I mean TOTALLY) let go that I saw a turning point toward recovery. Taking furniture? Sounds like he is still trying to get a reaction from you. Just let it go. I know it goes against your soldier training but let it go. Have you ever cheated on your husband? I only ask because he is so full of BS.
I also got to the point where I realized there were 999,999,999 women out there who I might find really interesting. I never looked before but I no longer viewed gemela as "the one". I don't think she liked that. Not sure. I think she likes being the center of attention - even mine.
Your lack of interest in WH has to cause him doubts he has never had to face before. Good.
Pio, No I never once cheated, never really went out too busy with kids, home, work mix. WH accused me for years while he was deep in his 4yr EA of cheating...daily I would have to listen to him make jokes and accuse me of going to work to do XYZ with whomever the name of the day would be...I got to the point of explosion and told him I may as well be doing it since I have to endure the insane behavior and comments...I reassured him that the only man I wanted was him but I did not meet his #1 need during that time mostly due to fatigue, resentment and the fact that I knew about the EA which he continued to deny and blow off...it just put my desire for him way near empty although I loved him dearly. Crazy thing is that I never did have any desire for another man. I went out of my way to avoid any questionable contact with men at work...it was out there I just never took the bait.
You are right he knows I still care but for at least 3 months I behaved indifferent, showed absolutely no interest whatso ever and never initiated any conversation. All of this craziness started after the Christmas SF...he started opening up and wanted to see me more etc He freaked last night and called all night long leaving messages which of course I didn't get until this am thanks to the mute button!
BK, LOL about the rabbit...my neighbor just invited me to a party to shop for the like...gave me a catalog as well!
Pio - I totally understand about dumping the hamster. But don't forget that those cute babies turn into incestuous monsters very quickly. Hope that big momma doesn't find her way home!
I agree. I tend to look for the diversion of humor, sarcasm and blatant avoidance of infidelity-speak that used to dominate TKO...it has subsided significantly and forces me to look at myself or elsewhere...yuck <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
We went through a succession of rodents for a while in order to satisfy my daughter's need for pets; I had the odious task of cleaning the cage. First it was hamsters. Then a guinea pig. The guinea pig lasted the shortest time, probably because we had gotten a cat in the interim. The poor thing was probably stressed to the max by the cat staring at him hungrily in his cage.
We live in the country and get mice in our garage. My H sets the traps. My son empties them. I point out when they are full. The other morning I noticed movement out of the corner of my eye. A mouse had gotten into my office! It was 5am, but I let out several shrieks. My son was first on the scene and helpfully yelled at me to be quiet and to calm down. He then ran upstairs to get his glasses so that he could see the beast. My H came downstairs and nonchalantly trapped the mouse in a tupperware container, let it outside and went back to bed.
My dog was useless throughout the whole ordeal, but she loved the excitement.
I'm pretty sure I saw the hamster yesterday as we were driving home from work. As we passed by the park, I'm certain I saw a little grey thing raise up and bare its fangs and, if I'm not mistaken, had one paw raised up with its middle claw extended. The hissing was just my imagination as we had the windows up and there's no way I could have actually heard that. I know what you are thinking and, no, I can't be absolutely positive it was the same hamster.
I did send your H a couple of emails. I'm not sure if it will help or hurt. I don't check that email address very much because I am pretty well stocked on cheap Rolexes. I'll try to be more diligent in case he replies. Now if someone would just sell batteries for cheap Rolexes...or 8K gold electroplate touchup kits for cheap Rolexes...I might be more highly motivated to look at my email on a more regular basis.
What are you supposed to do when both you and WS attend kid sporting events, school functions etc?
Very awkward this eve DD1 game and we both attended, barely spoke and sat miles away from each other. No arguments etc but just plain strained and difficult.
I would not miss any kidstuff regardless of WS plans so do I just pretend that all is well, ignore except for necessity and act like it's all cool?
Just wondering <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Well keep in mind this is for the kids, right? How do you think your kids feel about seeing mom and dad playing out their soap opera in front of their friends? I don't mean that disrespectfully to you in any way. I'm just trying to look at it as if I were a young teen struggling with what are already impossibly awkward years without additional "help" from the family.
I think you two should suck it up and be there for your children - whatever that means and whatever that takes. Sitting far apart? I think you two need to POJA a temporary truce for those events and rein in the emotions for the hour you are together.
Do you think your children have to explain their parents' behavior to their friends the day after? My next door neighbor's wife had an A with her boss (she a teacher and he a principal). She ended up leaving her family and going to the USA to wait for OM who never went. Everybody in school knew about the A including all the kids. The 14 YO and 11 YO got bombarded with it daily at school. They got to the point where they never left their house except for school. They avoided all friends. Now they too are gone.
BTW, have you thought about asking DD1 how she felt about you two sitting far apart at the game? Just curious. I'm certain she has an opinion one way or the other.
You go. You root for your child and their team. You speak to WS if need be but don't go out of your way to do so. And, if need be, you try to be pleasant. Remember, it is about the two of you. Not the children. You need to behave in an appropriate manner because your child is watching and learning.
I was sucking it up and even attempted chit-chat 1/2 way through just to break the ice...no-go on his part.
I was pleasant but reserved.
I did ask DD1 her feelings on the sitch and she said that she knew we would sit apart but it didn't bother her, she was too nervous about the game.
She has verbalized many times that she wished we would just get a D and get on with it b/c it is inevitable...she is looking forward to moving but I think lots of her "talk" is to make good for me and part of her own defense system as WH continues to disappoint her with his limited kid-time and distance from her.
WH almost treats DD1 as an extension of me b/c she acts and speaks in a similiar fashion to me. He has accused her of being mom's "spy" and "reporter" which is ironic since I never ask anything of kids...whatever they report is all there own doing.
As for the game, WH asked my permission to attend the game and even asked if he could sit in same area if that would be ok. I had responded that it was ok, she was OUR daughter and that would not change.
Good call to POJA public behavior for kid functions. Honestly prior to tonight folks would never know we had issues since we appeared to be the perfect couple in public.
Blue...thanks for the words of encouragement and support!
I always went, whether or not their dad would be there. If either child was with him, I would hunt them up and speak to the child first - then to the dad. I would not necessarily sit in the vacinity - although I might if I thought there might be some need for me to do so.
If you don't mind let superman know I was inquiring about his condition and wishing him well. I almost emailed but stopped myself prior to hitting the send...figured you could convey my well wishes just as easily.
I passed along the message. Since he broke off his EA with me, he has been suffering significant withdrawal. I tried to get us in MC but he'll have none of it.
He gave up posting because he no longer has anything below the elbow to type with. He chewed the rest off and he is not that accurate with his nose.
Pio, he told me he got an email; he's just not fast on replies. He will take his time, think of things, and then get out an email. (This was why I wrote to you first; I wanted to get the ball rolling. What I didn't write in the email, but you did pick up on, is that the communication stays between the two of you - I'm just giving the two parties each others emails and taking myself out of the loop altogether). If I have anything to say to you, I'll say it here on TKO.
I've probably paid as much to have my Rolex serviced over the years as I did for the thing in the first place. My H insists that his timexes are better, but he's one of these people who causes watches to stop all the time. He goes through about ten a year.
2much, I don't know how old your children are, and I am sorry you're here at MB and having problems w/your WS. I do know that the stakes and the pressure get higher and higher in sports as the kids get older/graduate to travel teams and Varsity. It becomes critical that the child be able to focus on his game and not worry about Mom and Dad and their shenanigans. In my son's sport, there's enough crazy parents in the stands as it is. Why add to the insanity?
I would leave your problems with your WS at home and just cheer for your child and her team. Support her and talk about the game afterward, not your spouse. Tell her how proud you are of her; I don't think you need to mention your WS at all, because the game isn't about him.
Hah. PB is a very *fine* looking individual....who happens to kill about ten watches a year. Someone more versed in chemistry than I could probably explain the phenomenon.
My son seems to have the same problem. He's a bit of a step up from his father though. He wears Fossil watches....that his mother buys him. The one I bought at Christmas is still working....
2much-I agree you should go to your kids' games. Regardless of if WH is there or not. That's his own deal. Don't let what he does affect you anymore. Be the better person and go. If you want to associate with him, fine. If not, be sure to sit where that won't be possible. It's about your kid, not your M. JMHO.
Wish you the best to all. I am a silent reader of TKO. been too messed up to post, but looks like I am finally starting recovery, one year after d-day.
Yeah but "FoundWillow" just doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
LW,
I have a question for you. This is important so think about it. Don't answer - at least not for a day or two.
One year since Dday. WH has made significant changes. Life will never be the same as before regardless of what happens. The A(s) will never go away. You made a conscious choice to remain in the M. You still don't trust.
These are all facts.
Now, let's say that OW comes and knocks on your door one day and WH answers. Will he a) jump into her arms and run off into the sunset or b) regardless of what is done or said, eventually close the door and go back to his chair and finish reading the paper. I realize this is hypothetical. What I am asking you is that you honestly try to answer this question. I am not asking if you will be happy about the encounter - obviously you wouldn't. I'm not asking if it wouldn't result in a huge fight - it obviously would. I'm not saying WH will immediately slam the door in her face - I'm guessing he would not be so decisive (or rude). All I am asking is, in your opinion, when the door does close, which side of it will WH be on?
Now you go mull that for a week or so and then get back to me. Go ahead and keep posting in the meantime - just don't give me a knee jerk answer. This is a very important issue and one which may be a turning point for you. It was for me.
Thanks Pio for keeping me updated. BTW, luv the name change, much more meaningful than GG.
I am at an impass...I may take a few week MB vacation and bury my head for a while...
I need to focus on me and the kids and sorta ignore the rest of life for a while until my assignment limbo ends.
WH not cooperative with completing his end of dissolution papers (what I was afraid of)
The question you ask LW is interesting...that always was WH alibi..."but I always come back to you" or "you are the only one that really means anything"...I'm tired of being home base. I actually drew a A timeline with all OPs on it to get a visual of my M...very enlightening, discouraging and depressing. My question is...will I lock and barricade the door now that WH is on the otherside? I think I should...I am now figuritively deciding to change the locks or just sell.
I am through reflecting, working, analyzing etc...I can't bear to read any of the infidelity stuff for a while. I'll come back after Valentines day to check in and report.
Don't get distracted. My question was not would he leave and then come back later. My question was pretty clear. Think about it.
2much,
I'm sorry WH is so full of BS. Maybe it will do you a lot of good to get away from this for a while. Maybe you need some inner peace too. Happy Valentine's Day in advance.
Really enjoyed my 'break'...and seeing 'ma' family.....
....I can't sleep at night sometimes becaaauuuuse......
I have all these ideas and plans about what I want to do around the house....where to take the boys this summer.... friends I have not seen in a long time to invite for supper..... what to prepare so we all have an enjoyable time....
I have a reasonably big dining room..... and enjoy 'entertaining' and 'celebrating' over a nice meal and some wine..... some of my 'italian' heritage coming to surface, for sure....
gemela has an expression "fiesta de cochino en casa de vecino". I live by it. You should too. Failing that, paper plates - can't beat em. I confess I did have a small problem with paper plates. The maid was cleaning up after a dinner and had not been with us very long and she put the paper plates in the dishwasher. What I thought was going to be a timesaver turned out not to be. Well we all learned a lesson that night (and the next day). She means well though. Another problem I had early on with her is that I came in after work and found her scouring a pan with all her might. The veins were popping out of her next. I asked what was the problem. She said we needed to get more expensive pots and pans because it was taking her hours to get the burned grey film off the Calphalon we have. Guess they don't have Teflon in Eritrea. Yet another lesson learned.
I will... curious about my new sreen name <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
lol Pio, Those maid "problems" sound very familiar.
We had one temporary over the summer and we were all getting crazy because before she leaves everyday she would turn off all the switchs of every plug, so everytime we needed the computer, or any lamp we had to be looking for the plugs… she was afraid of fires, the funny thing is that same maid was the one to burn our toaster using a metal knife inside it to take the bread out, and cried for over an hour scared and wandering why would the toaster blow on her, and asked never to use a toaster again.
Another one was when DD7 was 3 was very sick at home, I had to come to work, worried to death because of this very high fever, so I called and asked maid to check fever… she calls me back after 15 minutes, very happy, and tells me not to worry, DD was doing very good not sick anymore, her fever was 30 degrees… I told her cant be, please check again, she did and came back with same result… well it took me a few days to get her to understand a person can’t have that temperature.
We watched "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" last night and I finally feel vindicated. WW has complained for years about my insistence on sleeping with a chainsaw under the bed. Now she is in agreement.
I forgot to mention. I get really confused on this whole temperature/fever thing (discounting for farenheit/celsius which is a whole other issue). If you place a thermometer in someone's mouth (properly) and the thermometer reads 38.5C, what is the fever? To me, the fever is 1.5C because fever should indicate a differential over "normal". The temperature is 38.5C but the fever is 1.5C. I simply cannot make WW understand this.
I had another revelation this morning. You all know that I have been struggling for some time trying to come up with my EN's so that I can try to get WW to meet them. As I have posted here many times, this has been unusually difficult for me. Today I think I have the answer. If gemela will just learn to use power tools...
so, 30C would be -7... pretty cold. Till now the maid still kind of thinks I am weird because I told her DD coulnd have that... her answer to me still... she was not hot so whats the problem? I was really amazed she didnt know what fever/ body temperature means. I mean, I came to work and she cant even take the temperature?
Did you hire a nurse or a maid (or a nursemaid)? You get what you pay for. My maid won't use thermometers. She thinks they are of the devil. If the DDs don't feel well, she starts a fire in her room and dances around it in funny makeup while chanting in an unintelligible language. She used to make a bonfire but Loss Prevention was threatening us with eviction so I have negotiated her down to a can of sterno.
OMG! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I just realized that my new screen name makes me a HO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Just as I was about to say why I thought your question would not really tell you anything of substance, though I did plan to re-read it before I posted, I see the question is for the BS. A whole different spin.
The answer, of course, gives you a level security the BS feels, the level of commitment the WS has shown & whether the BS trusts that, it may support the lingering question of the A never ending, gawd, there's a whole bunch of stuff here.
It is complicated. The question is quite simple. I asked it of myself. I was surprised at the answer. What it showed me is that I needed to change my screen name.
And PK, I'm going to be bold and say this because your post a few hours ago before you edited it hit a nerve. You said why ask a question of a BS that only the WS can answer. I said you missed my point. My question is intended to allow a BS to measure where he thinks he stands in regard to recovery. But further than that, I contend that, in many instances, the BS is actually far more qualified to answer that question than the WS. My belief is that many WS's (not all) still have a little fantasy tucked away in the back of their mind that they would run off into the sunset. But it is fantasy. The BS is not deluded by that and looks at things far more pragmatically. That was not the point of my question but it is my belief and especially during that period of recovery where feelings of love are not yet restored.
One year since Dday. WH has made significant changes. Life will never be the same as before regardless of what happens. The A(s) will never go away. You made a conscious choice to remain in the M. You still don't trust.
Now, let's say that OW comes and knocks on your door one day and WH answers. Will he a) jump into her arms and run off into the sunset or b) regardless of what is done or said, eventually close the door and go back to his chair and finish reading the paper. I realize this is hypothetical. What I am asking you is that you honestly try to answer this question. I am not asking if you will be happy about the encounter - obviously you wouldn't.
Let's take the last part....about the BS not being happy about the encounter. My H has told me many times that having the OM appear before him would be the answer to his prayers. I am not paraphrasing here; I do believe he prayed for this to happen. He certainly took some steps in that direction. So he would be very happy about the encounter. Very, very happy. I, however, would not be, and he knows this.
Quote
But further than that, I contend that, in many instances, the BS is actually far more qualified to answer that question than the WS. My belief is that many WS's (not all) still have a little fantasy tucked away in the back of their mind that they would run off into the sunset. But it is fantasy.
I don't disagree with you, and I do understand what you are saying. Perception is everything. After an A, the BS is bound to look at the WS with a jaundiced eye. If the BS perceives the WS as being less than totally committed to recovery, if the BS perceives with a single fiber of his/her being that he/she was second choice to the OP, all bets are off, no matter what the WS does. The BS may always feel in second place to a fantasy.
The irony of this is that the WS in all probability fantasizing about going back to the way things were....not the OP. And the WS is left on guard....kind of like a Japanese soldier still fighting the war in the tunnels on Iwo Jima. The enemy isn't there, but he's fighting anyway.
The only point I was trying to make (and as I said, my H read what I wrote, agreed, and signed off on it), is that the OM appearing at our door would be my H's fantasy. Not mine.
That is the reality of our situation. It's probably true for others as well.
I think that distinctions need to be made between cake-eating A's that end on or before Dday, and A's where the WS needs to be wooed back into the marriage. The dynamics are very different. The cake-eater has no fantasies of leaving the M for someone else; that was never the point of the A. Often the OP was chosen *specifically* for his/her unsuitability as a partner.
And the answer is... the same I wrote right after, been really thinking about it, and even with all the doubts surrounding a BS mind, I do feel this is what would happen:
Now, let's say that OW comes and knocks on your door one day and WH answers.
Will he a) Definetelly not
b) More likely but not exactly.
c) He would panic, tell her she better leave, and tell me about it, because he would be afraid I’d find out and to prove me he is not hidding anything.
Now, let's say that OW comes and knocks on his office door one day and WH answers.
a) He would eventually make a bit chit-chat talk pretending nothing ever happened between them, professional “updates”, and would tell me about it. If any OW would mail or text message he would tell me. If I require, he would reply a NC /mail/ text message.
If a new OW will appear in a near future I believe he’ll just walk away.
If a new OW will appear on a long future, well, it depends on our recovery.
Is he capable of being unfaithull again? I don’t know, he says he wont. But I don’t care all that much if he does, I’ll be done then… eventually regreting this atempt of recovery, the wasted time. I do fear going thru all this pain again (doubt it would be as painful) but at the same time, if this is to happen, I’ll know for sure I am better off without him.
Now for those who don’t know my story, we’re talking about 2 years of betrayals, that started with a ONS’s, followed by EA’s, with at least 3 OW.
Interesting post. I want to read it in more detail and get a better response when I have time later. I did want to comment on one thing.
Quote
But I don’t care all that much if he does, I’ll be done then…
This is exactly where I am at. Difference is I am completely happy in that knowledge. I know what I will do if gemela is ever unfaithful again. Do not pass go - do not collect $200. There will be no discussion. She knows that too. I think the turning point was about two weeks ago but everything is just now so crystal clear. The A is dead. It was a long time ago. The A is no longer the problem. Now I see that.
BTW, the screen name I was pondering is Shoichi_Yokoi who is a fellow soldier in arms and had pretty much the same problem as me.
Now I don't usuallt pass along emails but I got this last night and it intrigued me.
A married couple decided to spend their winter vacation on the beach in the Caribbean in the same hotel that they spent their honeymoon twenty years earlier. Unfortunately, due to work, the wife could not travel with the husband so he decided to go ahead and spend a few days there relaxing on his own.
When he arrived and went to the hotel room, he noticed that the room had a computer with free internet so he decided to write his wife an email. By chance, he accidentally got a letter wrong in the email address and the email went to someone else. By chance, his email went to a woman who had just lost her husband and was, in fact, just returning from the funeral. When the widow saw the email, she immediately fainted onto the floor. The widow’s son heard the noise and ran in to see what was wrong and he found his mother unconscious on the floor. He couldn’t help notice what was displayed on the computer screen. The email read:
My darling wife,
I have arrived okay. You are probably very surprised to receive news from me this way but now they have computers here so I can send messages to you. I have just gotten here but have looked to see that everything is ready for when you arrive this next Friday. I am looking so forward to seeing you and hope you have a pleasant and relaxing journey as mine was.
p.s. don’t bother bringing clothes – you can’t imagine how hot it is here.
I like it and really wanting to change it for some time now... or wishing to came to a day I would no longer feel lostwillow right.
I found MB one week after d-day, I read the site, and just wanted to register and post, been looking for a place like these for a week non stop, I was really lost, and willow because I love trees.
Funny. For some reason, I always associate you with HK. Don't know why. Maybe it was the willow.
You know there is something to be said for waking up every day with the knowledge that this may be your last day married to your wife - and not caring. It is just so liberating somehow.
I'll still get back and comment on your post but I am about to leave to go into town and, among other things, go to the shop that has ALL the nuts and bolts. I can hardly contain my excitement and I certainly cannot concentrate.
Oh and nams,
Why did you call me an [censored]? I'm not disagreeing but I did think it was a bit rude and rather uncharacteristic of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Because I don't want anybody to accuse me of trying to hide behind a different screen name. Some people come on here and try to be different personalities with different screen names. One (or more) person has even done that on this thread. There are some posters who are famous (or infamous). One woman that comes to mind has been man, woman, WS, BS, and multiple permutations of all.
You even have something like "used to be nam" on your sig line. Why did you do that? Probably for the same reason I put that I used to be piojitos in my sig line. But I will change my sig line for you.
No, no H_O, I'm asking why you consider yourself an [censored].
Maybe this should be in my sig. line, though it does seem unwieldy. I used to be nam until the board went through a re-structuring. After that I was unable to sign on as nam so I simply added an s to join again. I added the s for simplicity & transparency. I don't have a problem with others changing their screen name to suit their current desires but we should be kept up on who they were formerly so we can follow along.
Well nams I'm certainly glad you say that you used to be "nam". I never would have made the connection. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yeah, I wanted to be clear for the dimmer bulbs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
First nams calls me an [censored] and now a dim bulb. Is she having "issues" right now or what? My only problem is I can't argue with her - she's right. I just hate that.
BigK,
To be totally honest, I've never understood BigKahuna. Just sounds like an Hawaiian surfer. [are you a Hawaiian surfer?].
I still have a lot of trigger dreams. Don't know why. I used to wake up really pissed off. Sometimes I would even get into a fight with gemela knowing that the dream was the cause. Night before last I had one of the worst in a while. In the dream, in fact, gemela left with OM. Essentially it was the scenario that I described in my "question". In the dream, gemela left. In my dream, I was totally okay with that. When gemela and I woke up, we were fine.
what's up?....is there a 'name change' bug going around? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
DS11 does not have school tomorrow...have taken the day off work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.....and intend to 'hang around' with my beautiful boy...and have NO PLANS...up to DS11 and what HE wants to do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />....DS11 is just glowing from the attention!
Don't forget YS - adopting that screen name means that you have pledged to lay down your arms forever. There is no turning back.
This hit me some how… Even dreamed of being somewhere in the jungle fighting alone… I don’t know what.
Anyway, yes I live near HK.
And still living this inner peace feeling. I believe we can make it. Either we make it or not I am a stronger person and really learned a lot. I am starting to feel myself again, just stronger and wiser.
H been really great since turning point, specialy with the girls, he’s back to the proud father he was before all this mess.
Of course he still deals with the guilt, three years is a long time. And everytime something goes wrong with the girls he feels really bad… but instead of walking away he’s facing the situations.
I asked H yesterday what he would do if any of the OW would appear to him… he said he would just tell them to go away they had nothing to talk about.
Glad you had a good day. I am starting, hopefully, a good day.
Bigkahuna - dont change it, love it, fits you just right.
Originally, Kahuna was the Hawaiian title for a priest, expert, teacher, and/or adviser, and the term is still used in that context by native Hawaiians. (See ancient Hawai'i) A kahuna nui was a high priest.
The point of my question is to judge your state of mind. Obviously we have no clue what WS would really do. That isn't the issue. What is at issue is that, based on your convoluted answer(s) to the question, you have decided in YOUR mind that the A is really and truly over. You are uncertain about the future and, to an extent, you don't care. I'm totally with you on this.
What I realized way too late is that the A for WW had died long ago. It just died so quietly that I couldn't hear it. Because WW refused to communicate with me about these issues and just assumed I would read her mind, I wasted a lot of effort and likely delayed a chance of recovery for many months.
You made a conscious effort to try to save the M. You have held out this long. You believe the A is(are) finally over. There is no point fighting an A that is dead. So stop. Walk out of that jungle and lay down your weapons.
You are uncertain about the future. Welcome to the club. Whereas you had no input on your WH's affair(s), you do have some say on your future. The battle you should be fighting is the one for recovery. Your enemy is no longer OW. Your enemy is now you. You can walk away from this M at any time. You have that right. You haven't done so yet. Unless you are prepared to fight now to recover your M, you have no chance.
If you have to, sit down with WH and discuss what the problems really are and how to address them. I posted a long time ago about the proper way to eat an elephant. It always works. You may find that WH's guilt interferes with communication. Don't quit. Help him get past this barrier. You are both wounded and hurting. You need to help each other now. You have to trust or, better said, open yourself up to potential hurt. I don't trust gemela any further than I can throw her which is now up to about 2 meters excluding roll (if any). But I have to open up my feelings to her. She can't read my mind either.
Well BigK, congratulations on the milestone and my condolences on the millstone. The congratulations are for the milestone of 3000 posts and I'm honored that you thought of Todd and me. My condolences are for the millstone of having to post 3000 times on the subject of infidelity. I'm reminded again of how sorry I am that it has touched your life. You're a good man.
One of the things I really appreciate about you is that your standards are so low. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
All that aside, I have a question. How many different ways are there to fold a bath towel and, more importantly, how many different ways can one person fold a bath towel? My maid is really starting to piss me off.
The number of ways would easily be represented by 1 bit
No - it MAY be able to be represented by 1 BYTE. Not 100% sure about that though. I may ask her tonight if she has studied origami. I find not other obvious explanation.
Well I just got a bit of bad news. One of my cousins back in Arkansas was involved in a motor vehicle accident with the family car in a severe thunderstorm so the conditions were very wet.
He had crawled underneath to get out of the rain and it fell off the blocks and broke his leg.
Pio - fortunately threads like TKO mean I have way less than 3000 posts on infidelity.
No, it just means you talk a lot!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Seriously, congrats on 3000 posts. You have helped and saved many marriages in those 3000. No one will ever forget that. You know I consider you an "expert". Your advice and words of wisdom mean a lot to the people you take time to post to.
You give kick-[censored] advice (literally!) and I, for one, am grateful for it.
Let me see...I did a little bit of research yesterday on BigK's 3000 posts and graphed them by category. It turns out that exactly 2187 of the 3000 posts - a clear majority - simply said: :Steph - DO NOT HAVE SF WITH YOUR HUSBAND!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Let me see...I did a little bit of research yesterday on BigK's 3000 posts and graphed them by category. It turns out that exactly 2187 of the 3000 posts - a clear majority - simply said: :Steph - DO NOT HAVE SF WITH YOUR HUSBAND!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[/quote] Seriously, congrats on 3000 posts. You have helped and saved many marriages in those 3000. No one will ever forget that. You know I consider you an "expert". Your advice and words of wisdom mean a lot to the people you take time to post to.
You give kick-[censored] advice (literally!) and I, for one, am grateful for it. [/quote]
making stph20 words my words <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
stph20, hope you don't mind me using your words...
As always, even with my poor english, you can understand exactly what I am going thru and always give me that strength with your advice and "alerts".
Thanks for asking that question. It helped me a lot to reinforce my position in this recovery.
Weekend was really great, it's a bit cold here and we stayed home all weekend having fun with the girls. Playing games, Calico Critters, lego... and we even baked and burned a chocolate cake, one could say there were 4 kids in the house... we even tryed to play volley ball inside but that was not a good idea <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> of course after 9pm was only for us. We talked future and fears. Felt good.
After waiting for FOREVER, yes I finally got NC. Thanks for the congrats. Now let's see if he'll keep it up.
Quote
Let me see...I did a little bit of research yesterday on BigK's 3000 posts and graphed them by category. It turns out that exactly 2187 of the 3000 posts - a clear majority - simply said: :Steph - DO NOT HAVE SF WITH YOUR HUSBAND!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I totally believe that this is NOT an exaggeration!
Quote
stph20, hope you don't mind me using your words...
No, S_Y, I don't mind you using my words...I speak the truth and BigK knows it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Actually I quite enjoyed psychology in school and it did have its intrigue. I gave it up completely however when I took Abnormal Psychology II. This is no exaggeration but I swear I had every affliction I studied in that book. It was scary. I dropped out before we got to studying serial killers and I have always felt that the world is a better place as a result. Even so, I would have kept it up if it were not for some rather bad luck. An attractive girl in my class who sat 4 seats behind me had a very unfortunate combination of hypertrophic pyloric stenosis and acute test anxiety. I still have the nightmares.
Last night, DDs, WW and I played Scrabble. WW started the game with "TOY". DD1 then played "ZOO". It was the shortest game of Scrabble I've ever played in my life. (She used the "O" in TOY as the middle "O" in ZOO - we have since talked)
I've never tried volleyball inside a house. I have tried indoor tetherball because it seemed safe and, to an extent, it is. Just don't put the pole in the dining room. Trust me on this one.
I once won a golf tournament at a place near HK. I almost got in a fight though. One of the caddies cost me a two stroke penalty and I told him what I thought of him in Spanish. Unfortunately I forgot he spoke Portuguese.
The small place I'm talking about wasn't part of China then but is now. There is a resort golf course on some VERY high ground with some cliffs that lead onto the ocean. There is a 250 yard par three whole with the ocean on the left and a cliff on the right. To my amazement, I was advised to use a 5 iron and again, to my further amazement, it turned out to be the right club AFTER I eventually found the ball. The green cannot be seen from the tee box and the tee box is approximately 100 feet above the level of the green. Hitting the ball straight from the tee lands you in the ocean. A fade will get you near the green. Unfortunately since I had no clue where the green actually was, I did not know how much fade I needed. I used too much and landed in the deep rough at the bottom of the cliff which was only about 30 feet from the green. My caddie told me the ball had been lost (he was watching from the green) or at least that's what I thought he said. In my stubbornness, I found the ball and, since I was doing very well in the tournament by my own internal math, I was furious with the caddie.
So yes we had words and yes I understood his Portuguese very well. I very nearly used my 5 iron again on that hole.
The other thing I found surprisinging about that visit is that the stewardess on the ferry back to HK was getting very angry with me for refusing to buy keno cards. I don't gamble. Nothing against it really but I suck at it. There must be a light, bell or something that goes off on those ferries because I swear that, at some trigger point, those stewardesses shot out with those keno cards like greyhounds out of the chute. They mistook me for a rabbit.
I dont play golf, but my girls love to walk on the beach and look for the golf balls, I have a basket full of them in the house. I guess all the kids that walk on the beach must collect them.
I dont gamble. Not sure if I have something against it or not.
Kind of hard to have a clear position on that. We do kind of depend on it. But also do know of those destroyed people and families because of it.
Just dropping in to say a quick hello to you all. I have just managed to catch up on all the posts. I actually thought I had clicked on the wrong thread with so many new names..
Hiroo, thank you so very much for the laughs, it's good to see you back on form. I am still having a chuckle over a couple of them. Not sure which I appreciated the most - the car on the blocks or the psychology class? I'm so glad to read that you are happier now. Initially we are like a fish out of water struggling for air and flopping around all over the sand in distress. We are just so totally disorientated. It's a whole new frame of mind when you realize that the power to save or end your M is in your hands too.
My prior plan was to try and post to everyone to catch up but the task just seemed too daunting. So, I'm sorry. I do hope to be around more often now. I have thought about you all each day and have wished you well.
BigK - 3000 posts is most impressive. I hope you are bringing a lap top on your vacation.
Just a quick hello. This class of mine requires lots of reading & tonight I'm hoping to finish it. Tomorrow I need to post on a discussion board & respond to fellow students' posts. By Sun. I have to write a 4 page paper. Eeek!
My hard work is paying off so far though, 2 A- & 2 As.
Someone asked, I think it was you Beth, what my ultimate goal is for schooling. I'm going for my teacher certification in art education. I'll be qualified to teach K through 12 in the state of CT & many other states because lots of states recognize CT certification.
I'm really interested art therapy & may look into something in that field as well. It's all about time, money & marketability.
Things seem fairly quite here which is probably a good thing even if it is kinda dull.
I check in to see what's up, I just don't post as much as I used to, but I'm around.
These are tricks I've learned when writing reports for my bosses:
1) double space 2) unclick widow/orphan control option - think like a Republican and forget about them. 3) nothing less than size 16 font - my bosses wear glasses anyway. 4) never use proportional fonts - you're just making more work for yourself.
By the time you get to page three, you can copy baseball scores from the newspaper. The longer the paper is, the less of it that gets read. In fact, we now put executive summaries on all our papers for this very reason. To test my theory, for the past year on reports to my boss, I have put as the very first line AFTER my executive summary "oh and you're a moron". He hasn't caught it yet.
If you have a chance to see PAN'S LABYRINTH...pure ART as far as I am concerned...
At first I was not too keen about seeing it....glad went out of my comfort zone....
Here are description & reviews about it:
PAN'S LABYRINTH: Mexico / Spain. 2006. Fantasy-Drama. Dir.: Guillermo Del Toro. 112 min. With Ivana Baquero, Sergi López and Maribel Verdú.
PAN’S LABYRINTH unfolds through the eyes of Ofelia, a dreamy little girl who is uprooted to a rural military outpost commanded by her new stepfather. Powerless and lonely in a place of unfathomable cruelty, Ofelia lives out her own dark fable as she confronts monsters both otherworldly and human. ----------------------------
.....Pan's Labyrinth is a child's story set against the tragedy of the Spanish Civil War, and it may well be his masterpiece. This is like no movie you've seen before, a haunting mixture of horror, history and fantasy that works simultaneously on every level.
----------------------------
Del Toro handles this rich narrative in a way that goes far beyond mere deftness - this is incredibly passionate filmmaking, its digital effects shots included. And while it's a paean to imagination, its devastating conclusion is far more layered than typical Hollywood "fantasy will set you free" bromides, and the film's stout-hearted contempt for cruelty of all kinds is uncanny, and inspiring. ------------------
Visually stunning, it meshes haunting images with a complex multilevel story about the enchantment of youth. ---------------------
" Pan's Labyrinth is a transcendent work of art. " ----------------------
6 ACADEMY AWARD NOMINATIONS Including Best Foreign language film of the year Original screenplay
BEST PICTURE OF 2006 National Society of Film Critics ---------------------------------------
Hi everyone, Pio, what with the new name? Did I miss the explanation? Or there was none? I was checking here and thought you were gone...
How is Todd doing? Is he also posting under a fake name? I hope he is fine.
Hi All, I miss you bunch but very busy moving. Also, sometimes reading a lot of MB gives me more anger towards A and I am trying (now better) to get past the cronic anger.
Pio, I saw you noticed I came back, but I could not respond before. Things are definetely better with FWH. NC since October! So, he is more the person I married to, and the kids have their father again. I guess all this work and suffering is worth it. And like someone has in the signature line: You don't regret doing the right thing.
I feel you are better also. great.
Luna, I saw your post and I am going to see this movie today. It was not on my list but I liked your review...
I know what you mean about anger triggers. I spent what must have been a couple of months in a controlled rage. That seems to have gone now although it does occasionally try to resurface. Reading MB is very possibly counterproductive at times. I've cut back lately and see merit to going on haitus. I think 2much did that and I believe it was a wise decision. My views about marriage in general and my marriage specifically have changed. Gemela and I are doing okay but I always have this thought in the back of my mind "what if?".
I have talked to Todd and he seems to be about the same. His WW is like one of those old scratched LP's on the record player that just keeps repeating the same thing over and over and it is so annoying you want to grab the LP and smash it against the wall.
I am a little worried about Todd though because I found this news item on a news website.
Quote
Atlanta Police have no leads on Mariachi Killer POSTED: 3:30 p.m. EST, January 16, 2007 Atlanta, Georgia (AP) – A serial killer who has been dubbed “the Son of Samba” by the press for his preferential attacks on Latino musicians struck again last night after hours at a local Mexican restaurant claiming what is believed to be his 17th and 18th victims. The killer attacked the Mariachis as they were leaving the restaurant at the end of their jornada. Police are withholding the names of the victims pending notification of their families and the INS and are also not providing many details of the crimes as they are still under investigation. According to a representative of Emory University Hospital, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the Mariachis had apparently been garroted by their own guitar strings.
So far no witnesses have come forward but police are looking for a man who had been in the restaurant last night. Other patrons say the man was visibly upset all evening and drew attention to himself as he insisted that the Mariachis repeatedly play “Old San Juan” all night long. Police consider him a person of interest in the case.
Police are asking all citizens to remain vigilant and any citizen with potential information should call the special hotline at 555-8633. People should minimize going out after dark. If it is necessary to go out in the evening, you are strongly advised not to dress in your Charro.
On a related note, police have now cancelled a naranjada alert that had been issued last week for two Mariachis that have been missing since Jan. 21st. They were found alive this morning drunk in their hammocks.
Yesterday I had a "date night" and after seeing Pan's Labyrinth (beautiful but way too violent for my sensitive taste) we went to a Mexican restaurant, and who was there? Mariachis singing all these mariachis songs. I of course was thinking about Todd...Hope he is not involved in the case above. Naranjada alert is too funny! On another note, Valentine's day is approaching and I want to go to an undisclosed location and hide my head under the ground until it is over. It will be one year anniversary of DDay. AAHHHHH!
Are any of you familiar with THE SECRET video??? ...sounded interesting..... considering getting it... seeing what a bunch of inspirational speakers have to say.....can't be all that bad...
Just another quick hello. I'm on my way to teach a pottery class. One woman has ruined two of her pieces already because she doesn't consult me before diving in. She took pottery in college 35 years ago & I hate to dampen her enthusiasm by suggesting she may not be able to pick up right where she left off...or maybe she has?
My one class is keeping me too busy. My sister called me yesterday to tell me the Postal Service is hiring, made me wonder if just maybe I ought to look into that.
The first thing I thought of when I read about the astronaut was her children. Gawd, not only is their family breaking up but their mother is going nuts in public & in such an embarrassing way.
My sister brought up the postal service because she's having difficulty at her job & is wondering about making a change. I wondered about it because of the expense & time of school. That doesn't mean I wouldn't finish school just that I wouldn't have to worry about money while I go. I'll call & see what's involved. Considering it's a federal position I can't imagine they move quickly.
Just remember that if you have to take the civil service exam, tank it. The government only accepts the lower 30th percentile. Anything better than that and they won't hire you.
I recently heard the origins of the term "good enough for government work."
It came about because, at on time, the federal government had tougher building regulations for construction than the prevailing regulations. Therefore, a building built for the federal government was better than a building built for a company. If you were a construction company, it was a bragging point to say that your work was good enough for government work.
I think the appeal of working for the federal government is the security & the ability to go from one position to another while keeping rank, particularly nice for those former military folks & benefits are said to be quite good.
Caught a terrific movie this weekend on TV with Maggie Smith that came out a few years ago....MY HOUSE IN UMBRIA...
...Umbria being a region in my homeland....ITALY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
....really enjoyed the beautiful summer scenery and Ms. Smith's performance! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
....besides that.....life in PLAN B land??.....slow as usual...LOL...and that's just the way I like it!
BigK??? Aren't you leaving soon?
..and stph20?? How are things with you? ...I am going to look for your thread for news of your situation...
What's up with the posters turned 'lurkers'???....too busy....I guess!
Hope you won't be too busy to 'report back' once in a while!
Got the 'butterflies in the stomach' feeling yet....?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
....I so like travelling....it's so 'adventurous'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well just to keep everyone from guessing, I changed the name back to piojitos because most people knew me as that and I thought it was best to leave it that way. For the record gemela and I are doing very well. The A is not forgotten but it is no longer hiding just beneath the surface of everything. I am starting to find some happiness again and I think she is too. If she is not, she hides it well.
I told BigK a long time ago that my primary reason for posting so much on TKO was for my friend Todd. It was my belief that TKO helped him keep his mind sharp (tumor issues) and helped keep him out of depression. Since he is no longer posting here nor even lurking, my motivation has gone. For the other posting on MB, I tried to use my experience in a positive way to help others and hope I did.
I do find that I get caught up in some stories in particular. For example, Jayban's plight hit me really hard and hit some triggers that should have been avoided. MB has also gotten really strange. I think there is still a lot of good here but also a lot that isn't so good. I am disappointed at the treatment that FH got even though I can understand both sides. But it was just plain rude.
If anyone as guessing who it really was that convinced me to leave, it was lunamare. I'm not sure what her personal issue with me is but decided that I no longer care. I see no point in constantly getting my cybernose rubbed in something that nobody even has the decency to explain what it is. I wish I knew what it was that I did to offend you luna but I decided I will never know and will just leave it at that.
I also sit back and wonder why people have 15,000 or 20,000 posts here. I know some people genuinely want to help others. Okay - make that many people. But I saw my post count and realized that it was becoming a significant portion of my life. I can't see how I can try to build a healthy happy marriage when I spend all day and night talking about infidelity. I'm just not that strong.
There are a lot of good people here. There are also some who post for other, more selfish, reasons. But that is human nature. I see that so many affairs now seem to be started by online gaming. People chatting about personal issue through the game. The difference between that and something like MB is that online gaming is already based on fantasy and MB is not. Even so, it shows me that the internet is not necessarily all that healthy.
I like numbers and statistics. I have been intrigued by a few posters and have done mini-studies and plotted their posting by time and date. What I saw was alarming and I wonder if those people are truly aware of what they are doing. BigK - you are one of them. You should go back and look at your posting pre-TKO and then look at it now. You do so much good but I wonder if you don't spend too much time here. You aren't the worst offender BTW - not even close. But what is MrsK doing all the while you post? What does she truly think about your posting? Maybe she doesn't care. I dunno.
There was a computer commercial on many years ago at about the time the personal computer was just coming out. Prior to that, computers were only used for video games like Atari, etc. So a young man is in the HR director's office for a job interview and the interviewer says "so I see from your resumé that you have killed 1,000,000 invaders from the planet Mongo". That's where I am with MB at the moment.
For all those who helped us in our sitch, I truly thank you.
p.s. If things were truly going badly for us, I would have changed the name back to my original screen name "traicionado". That would have been a bad sign.
I'm very glad to see that you and G are getting there and you're finding happiness again. I wish nothing but the best for you.
I, too, have stopped posting and very rarely come to MB anymore. I don't feel it has anything to offer me anymore nor do I have anything to offer but my sympathies for those going through infidelity.
FWIW, I want you to know that you have helped many, be it with advice, or comic relief and many of us will never forget that or you.
If anyone as guessing who it really was that convinced me to leave, it was lunamare. I'm not sure what her personal issue with me is but decided that I no longer care.
...who, if I may ask, among us will be honoured to meet the 'recovered couple'!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I think you already told us your itinerary a while back....can't remember...do you mind telling us again!
...and does it really include... ML's 'territory'...LOL!
I, too, have stopped posting and very rarely come to MB anymore. I don't feel it has anything to offer me anymore nor do I have anything to offer but my sympathies for those going through infidelity.
....Good luck..stph20...
....hope you give us an update of how you are doing once in a while....take care!
I'm very happy to hear you & G are doing well, Pio.
I'll tell you the reasoning behind my guess that things weren't going well & I'm happy to find out I was wrong. Pio seemed to be a name associated with much pain & uncertainty in your journey with infidelity. When I saw you'd returned to it I thought perhaps your were seeing things from that perspective again.
My reasons for posting about infidelity, for coming to this board VS staying in the "after divorce" board, was to better understand how suspected infidelity fit in with what I'm feeling now.
Being divorced & not having the suspicion of infidelity confirmed, I felt I was in sort of a gray area & wanted to get some clarity about the role this played in my marriage & divorce. I don't think posting here or reading here has been detrimental to my recovery.
I guess my biggest question was how much blame does infidelity get in my divorce considering I didn't know for certain it happened? That's still hard to answer & I'm not certain how much it helps me at the end of the day.
I'll still come here because I really like the people on the board& I'll post we it looks like I have anything to offer or just to chat. For those that feel posting here prolongs their pain & may hinder their recovery or think they may be addicted to their computer, I understand the desire to stop, it's the healthy thing to do.
I'll still come here because I really like the people on the board& I'll post we it looks like I have anything to offer or just to chat. For those that feel posting here prolongs their pain & may hinder their recovery or think they may be addicted to their computer, I understand the desire to stop, it's the healthy thing to do.
Thanks for the kind words luna. I am doing very well, considering the circumstances. Not very much to report. NC has been established and my snooping hasn't led me to believe it's been broken. I'm still hanging in there!
I am VERY disappointed that I will not have the opportunity to meet BigK. I was really looking forward to it, but finances won't allow a trip right now, unfortunately. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I get email notification on TKO, so I still keep up with you guys. So, in a way, I'm still around and I'll pop back in with my .02 when needed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have stayed away a bit...didn't feel I could offer anything helpful and was at the basement of depressions door.
I am glad to see everyone hanging in there...
Pio I am most happy that you are recovering...I knew you would be successful with or without G. I'm just glad for your family that you can remain whole...
I understand that we all have chapters opening and closing at different paces...
My MB chapter is closing as I have not been able to implement the principles without a willing spouse and did not opt for a dark plan B b/c of my unique situation with relocating.
My children see WH 1-2x/wk. There has been tons of drama to include restraining orders (WH against some of the OWs); people anonymously contacting me to "Open my Eyes" (all things I was well aware of) and continued wayward behavior and lies by WH.
There is light at the end of the tunnel...I have a new job waiting for me far away...once the kiddos are out of school off we go...I think the change in scenery and stable routine will be good for all.
I removed my rings, have paperwork 99% ready to file and once I get the last bits of info from WH will file so that I will be 100% D by relocation time.
You all have helped me get through some of the saddest and most miserable days of emptiness, rejection and despair. I have learned much and am much stronger, healthier and aware. I know what my issues are and am continuing to work on them. I also know that WH's behavior is inexcusable and to some unforgivable. I have chosen to forgive but will not live in wayward land anymore.
I thank you all for your diversion, support, experience and assistance in this journey. Although MB has been a lifesaver I need to break my dependence (which I have started to do) and focus on my kiddos and my own recovery. I am not at a point where I feel I could help others but once I get there I think I will be able to return with new perspective and possbibly some assistance.
I will miss you all...like Dorothy's return to Kansas I can't go without special thanks to Pio, ToddAC and BK. I am also indebted to FF and Orchid...thanks and for all the the cheerleading and hugs from Stph20, Nams, Luna, Cinders, Larousse, Beth (special recovery hugs to you)and anyone else in the TKO gang I am forgetting.
Sorry I haven't been around. My medical situation has been over whelming and has consumed me. I am sorry but I have had very little left of me to share(no pun intended!) lol
I did want to wish everyone the very best. Pio I am so happy to hear everything is going well with you. Luna you are always a bright spark on this thread. Nams and Stephanie I will be in touch with you. BigK I hope you have a wonderful trip. I would come and meet you in Vegas if the time was better. 2Much you are quite an incredible woman and I have enjoyed meeting you. I would love to keep in contact with you. My email is available if you would like to contact me but know that I wish you every happiness for the future and thanks for always thinking of me. Todd if you are lurking I hope you are well.
How I would love to be able to meet you both there but I can't go far from home at the moment. I just love Vegas, there is always so much to do there and entertainment everywhere you look. A lot of it is free. One of my favorites is New York, New York. It has a great bar area with a live band plus the Duelling Piano bar is fun and the Irish Pub is great too. Make sure you go to at least one of the shows though. You can also do the Grand Canyon from there which is magnificent but it is pricey...
Also from what I remember about the price differences in Australia bring a spare case with you. I remember the price of even Levi jeans in Australia shocked me, so don't forget to look at them over here. Also, check out our drug stores (pharmacies) as the makeup etc. is much cheaper here. Oh yeah, if you like that black vegimite stuff you will have to bring your own! (shudder)
If you have any questions please feel free to email me and I would help in any way that I can. Just don't forget the spare case or I promise you will be buying one!!
Have a great time and please let us know all about your trip.
I will most definitely be leaving the vegemite at home Beth. I know clothes are cheap there. REall excited about going. We were planninga few days in the Grand Canyon - hiring a car. We will see a show or 2 - any suggestions?
It's nice to have some news....if you can, please do keep us update once in a while...
I found your terrific sense of humour at such a low time in your life served you well....and am trying to imagine it in 'good times'...LOL!
Even if you don't recover your M..or don't want to anymore.... I find the important thing to take away is that in life...it's good to have a PLAN...any PLAN....and it will usually help us move forward...
Good luck, 2much.
(((((((((((((2much)))))))))))))
Hi Beth....nice to hear from you, too.
....bet you can't wait to get back to your surfing!
BigK....
Hope you will let us 'travel' with you a bit....by giving us some some 'on the spot' reporting, if you can!
I am so happy for you and Mrs. BigK.... you both deserve it!
No surfing for quite some time I'm afraid. For one I haven't regained my upper body strength yet and still have trouble with my arm/chest muscles. Plus my healing has been slow and radiation does not help. My doc. worries about infections. But I will get there eventually.
How is everything with you?
Nams, Stphanie, Pio, Todd and anyone I have forgotten - hello!
2much - if you are lurking please email me.
BigK,
Well I sure hope you are packing now!
My favorite show in Vegas is Celine Dion. But there are so many shows from musicals to magic. I also love Phantom and can see it over and over. Blue Man Group is good.The last time I was there I saw Zumanity and that was interesting to say the least... Ray Romano is on while you are there and he is hilarious. I am going to post a link here for the site I normally use so you can see all the different shows and artists. If you do wish to see Celine I would book your tickets now. Her shows tend to sell out and if you wait until you get there you maybe disappointed. Of course you could always go and see Thunder from Downunder. lol
The last time I went to Vegas Todd recommended Danny Gans but he was booked out. It pays to book ahead.
I hope you have a wonderful time and I will be looking for your posts. http://www.lvol.com/
Careful how you pack they are strict about weight these days! Also have you looked at all the new regulations? When I pack last minute I just throw in the entire closet.... not good.
How I envy you flying off on a vacation and with your loving wife. I'm so happy for you both.
Yeah, shattered my right humerus. Did some nerve damage to my arm. I walked away. Thank God for the woman in the basket who was a nurse at an orthopedic hospital in Sydney. She recognized the fact that I had to be kept talking or I would start slipping into shock. She may have saved my life. I named my daughter after her.
You can hear that story later. If you were coming to Nashville, I'd try to meet up with you. If you were making it to Atlanta, I could possibly do it.
BTW, the nurses at the hospital were great. It was really funny. I shared a room with another woman and, a couple of times several of the nurses would come into the room and stand across from us and just look at us. I never could figure out why.
Hi Beth...I am doing pretty good. Thank you for asking.
Just in case you missed my post about this....and hoping it will be encouraging to you...my mom is a breast cancer survivor from....get this....over 45 yrs ago!
....yes...I don't even remember...because I was only few yrs old....and it was back in the old country...ITALY...
...at that time....there was a 50/50 chance to survive.... and one option....major m (don't know how to spell!).....and no other kinds of treatments....and since my mom figured she was SUPPOSED have died....she hasn't looked back....each day is a PLUS for her! ...I adore my mom! ....can't think of anybody I know who has a better attitude about life...and what's important! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Quote
My favorite show in Vegas is Celine Dion.....last time I was there I saw Zumanity....
I don't remember BigK's feelings about the French..... LOL....I can only imagine what TODD would have to say about that....LOL....but tell me, Beth...since you seem to be a regular in Las Vegas...can one 'feel' the......French invasion...from Quebec? .....BTW... the Quebecois do not like to be associated with France...and does that count, TODD? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I am training to walk a half marathon. I am doing my training through an organization called Team In Training which is the world's largest endurance sports training program. It was begun by the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. 75% or more of the money the Society raises goes to research for cures or for patient assistance.
Through the training, I hope to raise $2,000 for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
Leukemia is the #1 cause of disease related death in children in the United States. Every 5 minutes, someone is told they have a blood cancer. Every 10 minutes, one of those patients dies. That is 6 people an hour, every hour of every day of every year.
I am walking in honor of one of my co-workers, David, who has had lymphoma for several years. Right now, he is in rehab following a stay in the hospital. Until he is stronger, they can not discuss further treatment. I am also walking in memory of Lee, a classmate of mine who died just days after we finished 5th grade.
I need people to sponsor me. Yup, donate money to find a cure or to help patients with medical expenses or to work with the schools the diagnosed children attend so that they can continue learning while out or so that their return to the classroom will be easier.
I don't get a dime of the money raise. I just get the blisters. And David benefits from the support and research funded by the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
To sponsor me, please click on the Team In Training link in my signature. Below the top athletes on the TNT page, there is a white bar - click on 'Find a Participant'. Then, scroll the list of names or enter my name (Jane Thomas) and make your donation to me.
Hey, even my orthopedist has made a donation.
(Now, just in case you want to know, my classmate died well over 30 years ago. I am doing this with 2 herniated disks in my neck, a really grindy knee, iliotibial band issues and hamstring issues. If I can do my stretches and range of motion exercises - not to mention neck traction - so that I can support David, I do hope you will support me.
All donations are tax deductible and the Society does qualify for matching funds if your employer participates in that option.
(In the words of the old Barttles and James ads, "Thank you for your support.")
Thanks for the inspirational post regarding your mom. I assume the word you were looking for is mastectomy. I can only grimace when I imagine what she went through back then. Thank you for telling me about her as it is always uplifting to hear a success story and I do appreciate you sharing that with me.
It's a shame it takes something so drastic to make most people including myself, realize and appreciate that each day is a gift.
I have been lucky enough to go to Vegas several times a year. It is the capital of Trade Shows and I had to attend for my business, it never grew old though. I love the French fashion scene and style but I stopped buying any of their products for my stores a few years ago. Now I am sure that would make Todd smile! I went to Quebec many years ago and loved it.
Luna are you still in plan B? Have you decided your next step?
Cinderella,
I admire you greatly for such a gesture especially when your own body is hurting. Thank God for people like you. I wish your friend David well and I am sure you are a light in his life.
I'm not sure you realize that I have had cancer twice. Part of the profit I make from my stores goes directly to cancer research and I hold several functions every year for added fund raising. I encourage everyone to support cancer research and to support you in your great endeavor. You could say it is very close to my heart. I will gladly look at your site and see what I can do. I wish you all the very best with your marathon. I do hope to be well enough to attend my local one later in the year.
Hi to everyone else and hope you are all doing well.
Beth, I did know you have battled this once. I think I will do the next breast cancer walk they have here though, fortunately, it has never affected anyone in my family. I do know that I will think long and hard again before committing to raise another $2,000. It is time to recommit and I am scared to do so but I have to do it within a few days or I have to leave Team in Training. Or, get a doctor to say it's too much for my body right now and I can roll over to another event but it will cost more to do that because I will have to raise 4x the travel expenses too.
I love the French fashion scene and style but I stopped buying any of their products for my stores a few years ago. Now I am sure that would make Todd smile! I went to Quebec many years ago and loved it.
Hi Beth...well..maybe I didn't make my reference clear enough....LOL..... I was thinking more along the line that Celine Dion and the Cirque the Soleil (having several shows in Las Vegas) were from Quebec!
Quote
Luna are you still in plan B? Have you decided your next step?
Yes...I am....have not yet decided on next step...it will be 2 yrs this July that WS moved out.....waiting until then to make a decision!
...WS is not showing any signs of wanting to take the 'legal' route.... in fact...upgraded his life insurance to 'permanent' (til death) from 'temporary' (specific term)....and insurance broker felt the need to tell me that he kept me as beneficiary...(at least for now!)....WS is still choosing NOT to live with OW! ...don't know if it's to keep the passion/illusion going more.... compartementalize.... to keep 'time' with boys separate from that with OW's....or maybe WS is just not really wanting to committ to ANYONE.... WS definitely seems to show signs of MLC...wanting to go back to adolescence.... have a GF... no committment...no responsibilities...and no 'routine'!
....but I also had a similar question for you but didn't ask.....how is it with you and your WS?
Hi Cind..... I just hope you are not 'jeopardizing' your own health...for a good cause.... because you are a good cause in itself!
Just came across one of ML's thread from way back which you seem to have revived..... looks like you are having fun! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Keep up the good work!
...am just a little jealous....would love to meet the infamous 'straight shooter' ML meeself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
I am home today up here in North country....and my furnace 'broke down'....gone one day without heat.... have the repairman in....it's going to cost me a mint.....need to replace....motor! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
....but at least home will be 'heated' when the boys get back from school....I am trying to get a few things off the 'to do' list....since I am 'stuck' at home.... with some personal pampering in between...you know....trying to keep things in 'balance'...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for the updates, BigK..... uhmm....any communication barriers given the difference in ....accents <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!!!????...LOL!
My furnace is now in working order....and so won't need to pile on the blankets tonight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
BigK....are you hooking up with other MBers next? ...and I can't remember...is your trip strickly pleasure for you and Mrs BigK?... partly work?.... personal growth?.....or maybe a bit of all of them?!!
....I'd like to think that the thread is hitting a slump...just like our local hockey team these days.....the good news being...it can only go up, now...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
A slump? Maybe...It looks more like a major shift. There was a time when we had a core group that always checked in, always posted, even a little something. But, considering the nature of this website, & this particular board, it seems likely people will move on, even healthy when they do & don't dwell on what's brought them here.
Luna - We were supposed to meet up with Steph in Orlando but she bailed.
We are now in Washington for 5 nights. We fly to Las Vegas on Thursday. Travelling to Grand Canyon by hre car on Friday and returning to Vegas on the following Monday (when the weekend hotel prices are more sane)
....geesh....finally found the thread! ....on page 11! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Hi BigK....thanks for taking the time to 'drop by'....
...even though some 'major players' are gone from the thread... I really like coming here....for some 'light' exchanges....LOL! ...and since I already often find talking to myself...no big deal...LOL!
Wow....5 nights in Washington ....meeting up with anybody there? ....What do you and Mrs BigK think of the US capital?
I know what you mean about the weekend rates.... booking a room over the Easter Holiday for Chicago....and yes...paying the big bucks (uhmmmmm for me...that is!) ....for the weekend rates.... but it's the only time I can go...as a stop-over to a conference... and I must admit..... checking out info. about Chicago.... and am now very eager to check it out!
Any 'communication' problems due to accents??? well...I guess if you managed in Tx..... everywhere else is a 'piece of cake' I guess! ...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
...in my neck of the woods.....it's the coldest it has ever been all winter! BBBRRRRRR!
...hitting the cinema this week....there is a festival on... also trying to catch a few 'classics'.....
Are you planning to see any shows in Vegas? ....uhmm....I think I have mentioned it already, BigK..... the last few years.....there has been somewhat of an invasion of Vegas by my countrymen....the Quebecois..... (who in fact...although speak French.... do not consider themselves 'fransay'....) ....and if you are considering the likes of Celine Dion....or any of the Cirque du Soleil shows.... don't be surprised if a 'french' element comes up....LOL!
Glad to hear you & your wife are enjoying yourselves here, Bigk. The Grand Canyon is wonderful. We'd gone as a family a few years ago & it truly was a trip to remember.
Luna, sounds like you travel quite a bit for work. If you don't mind answering or can answer in any way that feels comfortable to you, what do you do?
Luna, sounds like you travel quite a bit for work. If you don't mind answering or can answer in any way that feels comfortable to you, what do you do?
...maybe only because I talk about it a lot....LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
...travelled 3 times last year....we'll do probably the same this year.....but I wasn't travelling much before...
I am in an administration position assisting university students...without being too specific..LOL!
Quote
Think we'll entice anyone back to TKO?
...well...maybe not anybody 'back'..... but maybe new ones?!?
...I would like to be able to come to a 'mixed bag' kind of thread... I guess time will tell, Nams!
Things for me these days revolve around school. Though it's only one class I seem to spend lots of time sitting on my a** in front of this computer. I've just submitted my paper for this week then I will go back to the discussion board to post more comments. I've gotten all As & I'm working hard so I don't get anything else.
As for keeping this thread going with new & old, I hope so.
I got a book from the library the other day about travel to Canada.
You assist college students...well now I know who to call when I need assistance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
So, Bigk, how does Mrs. Bigk like the U.S, so far? I hope you've run into to nothing but friendly people. I trust you are, at the very least, getting fed over sized portions of food.
What's been your favorite part? What about you W's?
Nams.....if there is anything I could help you with...give me a shout! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Quote
So, Bigk, how does Mrs. Bigk like the U.S, so far? I hope you've run into to nothing but friendly people. I trust you are, at the very least, getting fed over sized portions of food.
What's been your favorite part? What about you W's?
Sorry I haven't been around, I am battling my health issues and I seem to have fallen into a battle with depression as well. I will be back when I am victorious. I am getting help and feel like I am on the upswing. I hope you are all doing well.
We are at the Grand Canyon for a few days. I dunno. I think Washington is hard to beat myself. Mrs K says her favourite is also Washington (where it snowed the day before we left). The Grand Canyon is pretty awesome though.
Looks like we are going to meet up with MarriedForever in Los Angeles on our way home so that will be pretty cool as well.
Ah yes, tax & tipping, you're not alone in your frustration on these two topic.
Would you like a side of fries with that? Or may a sticky bun with your coffee? Would you like to super size or make your meal so gigantic you'll need to vomit after eating it? All questions you've probably been asked, well, except for the last one.
Yeah...that is a better deal, BigK....you know the bottom line.....right away! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Quote
I mean to say - I pay $42 for a shuttle ride and the friggin driver wants a Tip - is there no end to this maddness?? ......I swear it takes 10 minutes to order a hamburger!! (Do you want mash, chips, fries
...starting to get a bit homesick, BigK? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Your displeasure reminds me of super stores. They're too big with too much going on. I can't walk in to make a simple purchase without all the other merchandise bombarding me along the way. It's overwhelming & makes me tired.
I wonder if people who travel here are aware that their trip will cost them an extra "30%" & if travel agents warn people.
I can tell you travel agents tell you nothing. They never tell you how much taxes are, but even worse, the accepted "tipping" schedule these days seems to be 18% - a huge hike from the usual 10% I was accountomed to when I was here a few years ago.
It's just a joke.
PAY THESE PEOPLE PROPERLY and do away with this stupid tipping system. Include the taxes and tip in the price. SIMPLE. Would make everyone happy.
Have you settled back in? You are very lucky not to suffer from jetlag. I keep on checking for your snaps. Is it soonish time yet? I'm so glad you had a good holiday here in the USA and managed to catch up with some friends.
I do have some good news to share with you all. I have been reading on another site called Surviving Infidelity and our wonderful friend Todd is posting there on a regular basis. He sounds well with his normal humor and considered advice to offer that site. There actually seems to be quite a few members of MB over there including KiwiJ. So if any of you want updates on our old friends have a look at SI. Does anyone hear from Pio? I would love to know how he is doing.
For myself I am still fighting my health issues. My personal life is drifting along with no resolutions yet. My WH seems to be a changed man since he moved back home for my surgery, but....... I need to handle my cancer issues and let everything else drift until I have a prognosis.
I do think of you all often and wish you all the very best. I am sorry that TKO is limping along. I wish I had of found you all earlier.
Hi BigK...good to hear you made it home sane and safe!
Hi Beth,
thanks for the update....
...been a bit busy myself...not much time for MB
....movies...seeing friends....going out...overall....life goes on....even in PLAN B!
Hugs to all..(who remain...LOL!)
Just caught 007 - Casino Royale...came out on DVD...not bad.
About Pio... I am not sure why...but apparently I am to blame for his absence on TKO...
My opinion: ....less interest, particularly since Todd no longer posts here...
bottom line, though: wish he hadn't used me as an 'excuse'... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I think you are overeacting Luna. Pio just found his recovery was being hampered by being here. I think he felt you had ignored a few of his posts. Don't take it to heart.
Beth- I have been very sick for 4 days. I'll get to the photos as soon as I can.
I think you are overeacting Luna. Pio just found his recovery was being hampered by being here. I think he felt you had ignored a few of his posts. Don't take it to heart.
I agree with you...he wanted or needed to leave....but it still hurts.....all I am saying is that I would have preferred he just left without the need to point fingers...blaming me for it without any explanation....if Pio felt ignored by me, or if I missed a post of his....I think it would have been better that he 'call me' on it...give me the benefit of the doubt...just to be sure...rather than reach conclusions on his own... I just didn't appreciate it... I try to read all posts...and I certainly address posts directly addressed to me....otherwise I comment when I have something to say....but I know for a fact that I have missed posts...often due to cross-posting...
...but life does go on...not to worry....I am not losing any sleep over it... and I certainly wish Pio the best in his recovery!
Why is it some people feel every post they make has to be recognized? I've never understood that. I've heard/read that some people feel the need to acknowledge every post made to them. I've never felt that way - never felt every post I made had to be acknowledged....or that I had to acknowledge every thing people said to me.
Sometimes, I just have to ponder or talk 'out loud'. If I don't comment, it doesn't mean I snubbed you. It might be that I need to ponder what you said and consider how it affects me, what change it might prompt me to consider, any of a number of things.
I've heard/read that some people feel the need to acknowledge every post made to them. I've never felt that way - never felt every post I made had to be acknowledged....or that I had to acknowledge every thing people said to me.
Cind... I agree with you.... life already provides enough 'pressures' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.... I certainly don't come here to get more.... often my posts 'harvest' very little comments...and I don't mind... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.... because I am not expecting any all time and appreciate it when someone takes the time to acknowledge or add their insights to my posts....
...I think of the MB board more at a 'sharing' level.... but I certainly try to reply to posts directed at me....and if someone REALLY wants my attention or feedback ....heck....I have an email just for that reason...where one can be SURE to get to me!
....uhmmmm...that reminds me.... better go and check it....I haven't for awhile <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Thanks...I'm glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes, it's good to be affirmed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Lots of these threads are like group conversations. When I'm talking in a group, I don't need for every comment I make to be addressed by the person to whom I made it - especially when others are commenting, also.
Last 2 weeks, a big virus has run through all three of us in the family. Respiratory yucks and ear yucks. Presently, I am well.....thanks for reminding me I need to take my antibiotics. I've been forgetting.
My hamstrings are better. My right IT band is better. Wearing the knee braces when I train has been very helpful.
My neck is better - when I remember my traction. If I forget, it reminds me.
Yesterday, my training walk was supposed to be 11 miles. I only walked 6. I felt it was better to have a good short walk than to have to be retrieved by the person sweeping the course.
I am still training for that half marathon. I truly believe I can complete the course. I still need sponsors.
The fundraising is the biggest stresser in my life now. I even turned down helping someone at church for a class for 2 days because I couldn't deal with more stress at this time.
I am 'tired' just hearing about your training, Cind... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
Is it 'recommended'.....or it's because it's important for you to do it? Sounds a little too much given your ailments....but then...what do I know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I don't push hard. I concentrate more on form than speed. I chat a lot. Don't mind walking with the slower people - the plodders. I try to do stretches and other stuff during the week. I really like hooping which can be quite aerobic.
Luna, the first time I read your post, I thought it said you were tired OF hearing about my training. I was afraid I was boring people. Really, I do need more sponsors. Gotta get money ready to send in - that will help - when I see updated totals.
Luna, the first time I read your post, I thought it said you were tired OF hearing about my training.
Hi Cind...I reread my post...and you're right.. it COULD be taken that way...gosh.....so sorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />....I actually find you amazing!
Just saw the film THE DEPARTED.... pretty intriguing if you don't mind the gorry killing scenes.....and some good acting.... Scorsese seems to have a thing for staging bloody graphic scenes....reminded me of THE GANGS OF NEW YORK....or was it because Leonardo was in that, too? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Just a quick update on where things are. We are still together and things are reasonably quiet. We have had a couple of huge fights – one over a misplaced teddy bear that nearly ended in divorce. Now I am the one pushing for divorce rather than WW. We have had a couple of fights since the bear incident but I have to be very careful not to bring up the D word. SF is like eating food when you have a bad cold. You don’t really want it but you know you probably should have some. Nothing sounds really interesting and when you do have some, it just doesn’t seem to have any real flavor.
WW is back to her normal life and seems to be having a great time. Everything for her is fantastic and for me it is not. We still have to avoid talking about the A. When OM’s XGF was writing me, there were times it really bothered me. I don’t know if she had an agenda or not but extended exchanges with her usually ended up in a conflict with WW.
I have said before that I needed to see some remorse simply as evidence that WW might try to avoid a repeat performance. The fact that she has never expressed any tells me either she is still in the affair (at least contact), wishes she were still in the affair but trying to make the best out of the situation, or is completely over the affair and has put it past her and can't figure out why I can't too. Any of those options shows complete disrespect for me and my feelings.
Her behavior has been great. I can't complain about her actions. She has nearly 100% transparency. The things she does not tell me about I think she does with good intentions. A few days ago I finally told her that I still had major issues with the fact that she has never shown any regret about the A. She says she does not say she is sorry because, in the past, I have said I didn't believe her. I reminded her that when she has said that in the past, she was still in contact so she had little credibility. I told her that my problem now is I simply don't trust her. I can count on one hand the times she has said ILY in the past six months. I think maybe I should have explained myself better. She thinks I don't trust her in the sense that she is sneaking around behind my back. The reality is I don't care if she is or not. If she is, she packs her bags and leaves. There won't be any hesitation. What I don't trust her with is my feelings. I don't want to open them up to her any more because she has shown no indication that she knows she needs to protect them.
One frustration I had with MB was with people saying how the WW should cave and express complete remorse and tell me every day how lucky she was that I let her stay in the M. Too much sugar in the Kool Aid I guess. Maybe that does happen in some cases but I doubt it is the norm.
The simple fact is that I do still love my WW. I don't think she is in the A any longer. I have also detached myself so completely from her that she could walk out the door tomorrow and I can't say that I would really miss her. I already have envisioned my life without her and it looks good. I still have the DD's to consider so that is what keeps us together. There are also days where things are quite nice and we have no real problems at all.
My views on marriage have completely changed. Now I view it as disposable. If it isn't working out, throw it away. I have told WW that and also told her that she taught me the lesson. But now I'm in a Catch-22. If I am not the loving doting husband, WW decides to look elsewhere. But because I know she will look elsewhere without giving it a second thought, I don't want to be a loving doting husband. I don't want to be the cause of her next affair but at the same time I wish she would just do it so we can stop this game. I know it sounds like I view her negatively and I know that's what I am doing. I feel she is guilty until proven innocent. She does all the right actions but she never says any words. I told her this. Her response was to get angry. I told her that whether I was right or wrong, those were my feelings and I had a right to them. I was not judging her or trying to make her angry - I was just trying to be honest. She got angry anyway.
Maybe this is just a bump in the long road to recovery. I think that BS's are afraid to strike out too much early on because they are afraid it might be the proverbial straw. After the A is over, the BS feels more free to express anger. Maybe this is just a delayed reaction. I definitely I'm the one with nothing to lose. WW is definitely afraid of upsetting me. I think that is why she never wants to talk about the A. She seems to want to let sleeping dogs lie. Problem is he isn't asleep. I'm not being totally honest with her about my feelings. I've told her that. I've explained that there is no benefit to me being honest about my feelings because she won't reciprocate and all I do is end up angry.
WW will be taking DDs to Mexico for three months this summer. I may go to visit them for a couple of weeks but they will return after me. Surprisingly this doesn't seem to worry me at all. According to OM’s xGF, he is living in Mexico waiting for WW. I don’t believe that is true. Of course, her information is second hand so OM could just be trying to cause problems too. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Another complicating factor is that my house maid who speaks little English is hooked on Dr. Phil. The result is that I end up seeing a fair amount of the program too. I watched a program a couple of days ago where a spouse wanted out of the marriage and Dr. Phil told the BS to shove em out the door and never look back. If the WS wants to leave, get rid of them. I can’t watch Cheaters any more on Reality TV and Maury Povich is on channel block. WW definitely doesn’t like to see anything to do with infidelity. We did buy the latest Bond film on DVD. I have to admit that I got a bit angry at that. I was glad the girl ended up dead in the hammock being eaten by crabs. There is justice. Wish they had been bigger crabs though.
WW is very proud of her Garden of the Month sign sitting in our front yard. She won a golf tournament a couple of weeks ago and is playing with the girls several times a week now. I worked with her on her swing and she has gained a lot of distance. She is now the long driver at the club and the one all the other women want on their team. She just had a lunch for her latina birthday club group yesterday and all the women did nothing but praise her for her gardening, cooking, decorating and scrapbooking. So she has the admiration of everyone and seems to really enjoy it.
When the women ask her who did this or that and she tells them I did it, they always reply that their H would never do such a thing. I have recently built her a fountain/pond which everyone loves. Sometimes I think I do too much. Don't know. I am beginning to get some fiscal responsibility out of her. That's a plus.
Scrapbooking seems to be a problem at the moment. I can go for days without really seeing her and I refuse to hang about while she scrapbooks. I have been trying to take the girls to the pool because it is getting hot. WW does not want to go to the pool. Actually now that I remember it, this is what started the big D blowup. I felt it was pretty selfish to deny the girls the pool simply because it made WW sentimental about PB (OM). She said that she was not. I'm not sure I understand her difficulty with the pool. I also told her I didn't really care. That was her problem and she had to deal with it one way or another. I think I may have also said that if she missed PB so much, she should pack her bags and go live with him. Was that an LB? Actually this fight lasted about three days.
I keep reminding myself that love is not a feeling. I promised my WW to love and honor her when I married her and this is what I am still trying to do. I'm just incredibly unhappy in the process. Then I remind myself that I am responsible for making myself happy so I look for ways to spin my situation to see it in a better light. Sometimes that even works. I am still not getting many EN's met which is largely my own fault. I have deviated from the three-legged dog theory and I think that has been a mistake.
I still have not seen WW try to take any initiative toward recovery but I attribute that to lack of knowledge rather than lack of desire. I don't know what she is feeling because she never says.
Pio--I was just wondering to myself the other day how you were doing, and here you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> And what was with that Japanese-sounding name, anyway? I never did figure that one out. Take care...
I headed for Wikipedia before I realized I don't remember what the name was any more. I think all those predictions made about me when I was a juvenile are finally coming true, and I'm getting Wisenheimer's disease. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I'll look it up if someone will refresh my memory. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
t&l
P.S. Pio, along the lines of your wrestling match, I'll have to post for you a paragraph from a book written by an old friend. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. Depends on when I can lay my hands on the book. Maybe it will inspire you to leave off the wrestling and take up boxing instead.
Okay I have a real dilemma. My office is on the sixth floor of my building. I have to go wee wee. The toilets on my floor are out of order so I have to take the stairs to either 5 or 7.
Additional mass: I have never actually weighed pee to get an estimate of weight. Since pure water weighs 8.34 lbs/gallon and pee probably has a density of about 1.04 gm/cc (WAG on my part) and, based on the surprising quantity of pee that I see coming from me in airline toilets (it collects it before you flush), I am guessing that I am carrying an additional 3-4 lbs of fluid in me at the moment.
So I could walk down the stairs, go to the toilet and come back up the stairs weighing less making the "up" trip a little easier. If I go up the stairs to 7, I have to carry that additional weight.
OTOH, going by the premise that "uphill trains, downhill strains", I run a higher risk of a pulled tendon if I go down to 5 with that additional weight on me.
So. I don't really know what would be best.
Did I mention that I have to go REALLY badly? So quick advice would be most appreciated. Thanks.
I played in a golf tournament this last weekend. I played with three people I had never met before - two men and one woman. We had four carts among us (as is practice here). Why is it that almost all men drive with their left leg hanging out the cart and women don't? I thought it was just me. Observation indicates otherwise. It's kind of like a dog hanging its head out the window when you are driving.
BTW, Tatertot really perked me up. I have had a great few days. No real anger issues. I have come up with a new way of looking at things. I have vacation coming soon. I finally got my illegal brewer's yeast smuggled in. I have beer percolating and will be ready this coming weekend. Can it get any better?
BTW, I'm on a brand new "all chicken" diet and I feel great. Atkins suggested high protein/low carbs. That got me thinking. I was watching One Million Years B.C.and noticed that none of the cave men were fat. Raquel Welch looked especially good. So I decided to watch Clan of the Cave Bear. No obese people! Darryl Hannah was pretty thin too. So I decided to watch Quest for Fire and - again - no overweight people! So I have been watching a lot of "cave man" movies lately to study metabolism and weight gain and the one constant is that you never see any overweight people! Cave men were never fat! We have the documentary evidence!
Okay so now I am asking myself what did cave men eat that I don't? Of course they ate dinosaurs. As we all know, dinosaurs evolved later into birds! How did cave men cook their food? No iron age yet so no pots and pans. That had to cook them over an open fire (after they discovered it which they finally did in Quest for Fire).
So logic dictates that the key to weight loss and being thin is eating nothing but poultry cooked over an open fire. So that is what I am doing now.
I sure wish we had a Kenny Rogers Roasters here...
A guess on the golf cart observation. Because a golf cart has a tiny motor and can't be consider "cool" in any way men try to disassociate themselves from it by hanging out one leg. I'll try this one too; they don't want to feel confined in a "lady" type vehicle so they hang out of it to show they aren't really in favor of the vehicle but do see its use.
Actually there may be some truth to that. We used to have toilets all over the course but now that have started removing all the bushes. Safety mainly. People hit balls into them, went to look for the balls, got bitten by poisonous snakes, fell down and died. It was holding up play. It was decided by committee to try to get fewer people to die on the course so we could finish our rounds in under 4 hours.
Hey, I heard this funny joke about a princess.....well, I thought it was funny. Considering my gay former-boss sent it to me, it was really funny - to me....I can't find it now.....will work on that. Maybe he can send it again....
Just a quick update on the hamster situation. We had a long dry spell. We had one pair in a cage for months. One did nothing but sleep all day and the other was on the wheel 24/7. The hamster went from grey to white. I don't know if it has metabolism issues or what but it consumed more food than Lance Armstrong. Well it just ran and ran and ran on that wheel. Apperantly it didn't run fast enough because she came up preggers. We had to dropper feed the little babies because she abandoned them for her wheel. They were just a temporary inconvenience. Well we took papa out of the cage because he decided to eat two of his kids. When we tried to put him back, mama nearly killed him. I don't think she was upset about the babies - she just doesn't want to get pregnant again.
But how is it that the waves came in from all sides all the time? There must have been something geologically unique about that island that we don't know about.
I can see that there is no point in arguing with you. It is all too obvious that you have not reached my plane of understanding and enlightenment so I shall not waste my time on you. I hope you get perpetual hang nails and live in a velcro world. I hope that your skin develops boils (none of which will make you rich because it vaguely resembles "Elvis") of an obscure and undiagnosable nature with possible subcutaneous lesions that prove, after countless painful examinations, to be inoperable. I loathe you and pray you amble about aimlessly in Purgatory for 1000 years uttering nothing but the name “Sheila” for no apparent reason before spending eternity to rot in He!!. Unless of course that you aren't Catholic in which case you can go straight to He!!.
Hi Pio, and thanks for asking about my work. As it happens I'm in maintain mode with pottery. I have no time for creating new work so I just keep making the same old same old. I'm fortunate I don't have to abandon it all together and that I'm able to keep a hand in.
If you are in contact with Todd, please say hello from me.
Sorry to hear you're not in a better place with your marriage.
How are you guys? It's been a while since I last connected to this website, and now, surprise to see Pio back! I thought I wouldn't come back anymore because of the collateral effects that I still have. The collateral effects also appears when I talk to someone and say everything is much better now. Anyway, I will take the risk. Everything is much better now. I have occasional anger moods, but most of the time I am able to identify the source and if I deem reasonable I just let the anger go out. If not, I try to cope with it, with different results. Recently, we are able to talk about most everything and it is a relief. The DS are doing great and XWS has been dedicating himself much more to them and to the family. When we are all together having a good time, I know this is it. But we still have some things to worry about. I am working at J&J but H is searching for a job. He gave up moving to Israel but now is considering moving to Moscow. What a girl to do!!
Can you pass the bar in Russian? Do they even have a bar?
Actually I have always wanted to move to Moscow. But now that I am so used to the hot weather, I'm not sure I could survive it any more.
I know what you mean about having the family together doing fun things. We have so many activities at the moment that we don't do that enough. It does make a difference.
Do you still keep those things around he bought on his trips? We don't have too many visual cues of the A lying around any more. Even so, I don't seem to have many triggers these days. OTOH, I had a bad afternoon yesterday for no explainable reason. I just wanted to hide under a rock. But I didn't get the chance.
Well I am kind of unhappy. WW is playing more and more golf. Yesterday afternoon she got a tee time for us after work. So I met her at the course and we played. She called DD1 from the course to see how her homework was going. For whatever reason, DD1 was crying when WW hung up. Now please don't misunderstand. DD1 is a manipulator to an extent. This is not unusual behavior for her and I didn't hear all of the conversation. Regardless, I played badly and had a worse time.
This morning, WW is playing as usual but now is playing 18 holes instead of 9 which means lunch as a family is now off the table (no pun intended).
I was working out early this AM and WW came down (up earlier than normal) and said we should go running. I didn't really want to but did. I should not have.
I feel giver and taker in a tug-of-war right now. I don't really want to talk to WW at the moment because I'm pretty pissed and we would just fight. I see no need.
Basically I have decided that I have become a golf widower. Maybe she'll lose a ball in the bushes and go look for it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I see on BBC where scientists now believe Viagra can cure jet lag. They performed their experiments on hamsters. I wonder who had that bright idea? Giving my hamsters Viagra is the very LAST thing that would occur to me. I think th study is wrong. Sure they sleep after the time lag. They are too exhausted to do anything else.
I'm going to try this at home. I'll start recording my findings.
I also see there that scientists have discovered that sharks can reproduce without SF. At least that explains why they are so mean. Maybe they should try Viagra on sharks.
I would be more than happy to have a "discussion" with you but these rants of yours are clearly beneath me. I forgive you for your stupidity. I pray that some day your soul will reach my level of enlightenment. I also forgive whatever ridiculous retort you come back with. I look forward to the day you finally understand that I am the only one who is right and all the rest of you are clearly wrong. I [excuse me while I open the door to make more room for my head] ...
Just an update. The first two hamsters are dead. It seems the experimental hamster and the control hamster both got the pills stuck in their throats as they were too big for them to swallow. Okay the control hamster got a blue jelly bean but it still wouldn't go down. I need to review the experimental method.
Pio - You are nothing but an ignorant fool. Way beneath my dignity to even engage with you. It is futile reasoning with such as you. However if you summarise your most recent posts that I have missed perhaps I can be condescending enough to respond to any you think I have missed because it would be FAR too much work for me to look for those posts even though you have given me the exact thread where you posted. But nevertheless I have to show a veneer of giving a sh*t about whatever you were blathering on about.
As I said, I already forgave you for that. It is only futile reasoning with me because you simply cannot accept that fact that you are totally wrong. I have forgone SF, except for one time, for the past seven years to dedicate myself to learning. You, on the other hand, have wasted your time on frivilous adventures of the flesh. [BTW I learned this SF once every seven years from watching the original Star Trek series - the "Amok Time" episode - The Vulcans did that and they were really smart]
So, yet again, I forgive you and I will add an additional three forgivenesses right now in case I can't post this weekend. So, if you do intend to disparage me, please try to limit the disparagements to 3 until I can get back and post some more forgivenesses. So after the weekend, let's settle up the account balance.
BigK, Do you know how is Stef doing? Is she OK? What about Todd, Pio, Are you still in touch with him? Can you give us any news?
As for recuerdos from his trips, the paintings I like I decided to keep and dissociate them from A(we moved this January so it was a good way to transition). The ones I did not like had to go.
Now, he came last month with a book written by an ex (before we met) and she wrote a book about infidelity around the globe. Of course I was p... just to know he got the book. Then I was browsing it and I found a paragraph summarizing (in her view but based on what he told her) our marriage, his infidelity, etc. I was so f... p... I unleashed the dogs on him that night. He even woke up without being able to breath. The book disappeared after that. I don't know what he was thinking!!!???
Okay BigK. Weekend is over. Can we settle up on the number forgivenesses you need?
I played Monopoly with the family last night. I put a 5 star hotel and casino on Boardwalk. WW couldn't pay the rent. I told her she could make up the rent in other ways. Maybe I am setting a bad example for the DDs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Well I have to say that the cerveza experiment went quite well. It was a bit of a learning experience. One thing I learned is that it is a good idea to bleed off pressure and then let it set for 24 hours. We also racked the first wine batch. All my life I always thought dregs were supposed to be bad things but dregs aren't half bad after all.
Yes but my EA with BigK isn't going well. I realize Todd was just a frivolous thing. I'm older and wiser now. Can you help me with BigK? I really want this EA to work out. (Until I find a better one anyway)
Okay BigK. Weekend is over. Can we settle up on the number forgivenesses you need?
I played Monopoly with the family last night. I put a 5 star hotel and casino on Boardwalk. WW couldn't pay the rent. I told her she could make up the rent in other ways. Maybe I am setting a bad example for the DDs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Well you've been blowing sunshine up my [censored] on other threads Pio so let's call it even.
Forgot to mention that I busted out the fountain over the weekend. Nothing like a pneumatic hammer! I'm hoping to convince WW to give it a go this afternoon as now we have to go much deeper in the contrete to deepen the fountain to "fish depth". I can already envision her...sweat streaming down...lock of hair dangling on one side getting in her way...muscles tense and total concentration on her face....women and power tools!....OOOOOHHHH!!!
I broke mine when I turned it upside down and tried to turn it into a pottery wheel. It's nams fault. I'm with you. Life just isn't complete without a drill press.
Vacation plans are set. Gemela and the DD's set out in a month for Mexico. A month after I go to the USA. I'll fly to Mexico and be with them for one week and then Gemela plies with me to the USA (just the two of us) for one week. So not much vacation time together. Maybe that's a good thing.
But here's the deal. This is my mosquito. I had posted earlier that PB's XGF had been emailing me. I do believe it was her because the email address would have been hard to forge. I never fully accepted her at face value but I always gave her the benefit of some doubt. Anyway, in one of her emails, she said that last she heard PB was in Mexico teaching English. To be honest, I seriously doubted it. I know what life is like in Mexico and how much a foreigner walk-in teaching English would get paid.
But I have to tell you that there has always been some doubt. What if PB were really there? What if he and gemela really had a devious masterplan all carefully coordinated? What if she were really going to see him if even only for a few short weeks?
Well, the short of it is that I don't care. More power to her. The only deal would be that she should not come back. It is funny but I don't stress about it in the least. I know she is going to do what she wants to do. I know if she does run off into the Acapulco sunset with PB that the sooner the better.
The reality is that it won't happen. The truth is that gemela won't give him a second thought.
But I still hear this faint bzzzzZZZzzzZZzzzzZZZZzzzzz...
The brewing is working better than expected. Do you know how when you drink some beers that there is an instantaneous hint of a taste as it first hits the tongue that is almost exactly but not entirely like the smell in your car when you are driving down the highway and pass a place where a skunk was made roadkill approximately 2 hours before? We achieved that!
I suggest leaving it for a few more weeks to "mature"
That is somewhat of a problem. Let's see. Rate of production vs. rate of consumption. I think this is a differential equation with time as the independent variable. This is getting complicated. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
There is a brand of grape juice here that comes in a glass bottle with reclosing top with a seal. The other brands come in a box. The bottle brand is much more expensive than the others - almost twice the price. A new sales manager came into the region for that company and he decided he could reduce the manufacturing cost and therefore make more profit by going to boxes too. He was fired within three months and the company went back to glass bottles. They saw their sales go to almost zero overnight.
Gemela has now decided that if life gives her lemons, she'll make sangria.
Well gemela did make the sangria last night and it was a good thing. yesterday PM I called her at the house just to say hello. She told me she was busy cleaning up the DDs' rooms. That didn't quite make much sense at the time but I let it go and frankly forgot all about it. The afternoon was a bit hectic and I'll leave it at that. After it all settled down, DD1 was bawling. Long story short, when gemela said cleaning "up", what she really meant was cleaning "out". Gemela had gone through all the toys and had given away or thrown away the majority. That in and of itself is not necessarily all that bad. The DDs have plenty of toys they don't play with any more and their rooms are always a mess.
But maybe this could have all been handled differently. I don't know. It was too late anyway. At one point, DD1 was out on the curb crying and sitting next to two trash bags of her toys. She begged me to give her the toys back. I couldn't really do that because I couldn't reverse what gemela had done. I do wish we could have all done this together and negotiated on what stayed and what went. In this regard, gemela knows DD1 very well and I believe it was done totally in the name of conflict avoidance.
Gemela had given away some toys and hidden in the pile were some things that DD1 really wanted (she had made in art class). So we have to go over to the peoples' house she gave them to and are sifting through the toys while they are having dinner. That was a Rockwell portrait.
All evening DD1 and gemela were having one long shouting match. I did not get in the middle but I did try to keep them as far apart as possible and in separate rooms most of the evening. I also stayed close enough when they wer together just in case gemela decided to get physical (she is capable). Finally things settled down a bit but DD1 still cried herself to sleep.
The thing is DD2 couldn't care less. As long as she has her Gameboy and rat-bear, she's a happy camper. But DD1 is sentimental. She loves each and every toy equally and with all her heart. It breaks her heart to lose a toy. I can relate. She gets that from me. So I'm brokenhearted too now and I have my own anger at gemela.
Anyway, DD1 pulled me to the side at the height of the fight and told me she never wanted to see mommy again and she wanted me to find them a new mommy. Obviously I told her that she shouldn't say those things and she was just angry but I have to confess that even while I was saying all those things, the first thought that popped into my head was "maybe a blonde?". Just for a split second, I felt enfranchised and it felt really good.
It was just a strange experience. Normally a parent will defend the other parent. And I did defend her. But part of me thought DD1 had a great idea - we were finally on the same page.
Fatwa doesn't always mean a death sentence. Although death could be considered extreme shunning. The majority (or is it the minority? I never can remember) are shunni. The rulers are shunni so whether they are majority or minority is really moot. The ones that aren't shunni get shiiti treatment.
I knew it was bound to happen. I see on BBC that George Bush has accused Miss Venezuela of dropping oil on the stage during the evening gown competition which caused Miss USA to fall on her butt.
I can only say those things after I'm sure ML has gone to bed. By the time she wakes up tomorrow, I'll be safe on page 5. Heaven help me if she were to ever read that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Federal health authorities said Tuesday that they are looking for people who may have been exposed to a rare and potentially fatal form of tuberculosis from an infected passenger during two trans-Atlantic flights this month.
The man, infected with the extensively drug-resistant form of TB known as XDR TB, departed Atlanta, Georgia, on May 12 aboard Air France Flight 385 and arrived in Paris, France, the next day, said Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The man, who has not been identified publicly, returned last Thursday to North America aboard Czech Air Flight 0104 from Prague, Czech Republic, to Montreal, Canada, then drove into the United States.
About his reasons for traveling, she said, "They were compelling, from his perspective, and we understand and certainly respect that."
Once he returned, the man was ordered into isolation, "and is required to stay in isolation until the responsible public health officials deem that he is no longer infectious to others," she said.
He is a resident of Fulton County, Georgia, Gerberding said.
Upon his arrival in Atlanta, he was issued a federal isolation order to cover the time while the case was handed over to the jurisdiction of state and local officials in Fulton County, Cetron said.
"From our perspective, no laws were broken here," Gerberding said. "Our system works very well."
I can only say those things after I'm sure ML has gone to bed. By the time she wakes up tomorrow, I'll be safe on page 5. Heaven help me if she were to ever read that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Gee Pio, I really hope no one bumps the thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Aren't your fingers tired? Don't you need to send your keyboard in for a 1,000,000 click checkup? Now we have two marathon posters. I'm glad this web site doesn't have an RSS feed. I would need a bigger hard disk!
Well you quoted the wrong post, Einstein. I'm going to go back and edit it before you CAN quote it. You never were the sharpest axe in the woodshed, bless your heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
No I quoted the post I intended. Mel will believe me. LOL.
Quote
I knew it was bound to happen. I see on BBC that George Bush has accused Miss Venezuela of dropping oil on the stage during the evening gown competition which caused Miss USA to fall on her butt.
I am worried and may need some help. WW and family are leaving this weekend for Mexico. Next month I'm traveling alone to Houston. There is a Home Depot very close to my sister's house. I have been using cable ties at a very high rate for the past several weeks. I still have about a billion left and certainly don't need more. I'm just afraid I won't be able to resist buying more. Is there a support group or some other aid I could use to help me resist the urge to buy more cable ties? I think I'm too weak to deal with this alone. I know I'll cave in. I think I need a sponsor. I wish Todd were here...
I could recommend a website but, unfortunately, all they do there is moan about how few cable ties they have. Not supportive, just a lot of moaning and whining and saying you can never have too many cable ties. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Quite frankly, it's pathetic.
NC with cable ties is the only way to go. Formulate a plan NOW. What will you do if you see a bunch of brand new cable ties beckoning you? You will run, not walk, run from the store.
You may see advertising for them. Ignore it. You may even see new colours that appeal to you. It's all part of the plan to hook you. Be strong.
I know you're probably right. I should be happy with the cable ties that I have. But sometimes I think about variety. I've tried duct tape but it just doesn't fulfill me. I feel like there is a hole in me that even JB Weld won't fill. I look at my cable ties and they are nice but sometimes I think about new ones - fresh ones. Is it wrong to have these thoughts? I mean, I can get some new cable ties and still go back and use my old ones from time to time. I can keep them separated and maybe I'll even appreciate my old cable ties more.
You will NOT buy a new cable tie until all your old cable ties are completely gone. When you get to the last pack, yes, I know that gives you a panic attack, you may think about getting some replacements.
You know very well that the old cable ties will gather dust and be unused forever as the new shiny ones get used until they, too, become "old" cable ties. That wouldn't be very nice would it?
The more I think about it, my old cable ties really are old. They no longer have any appeal for me. I think what I need is to just throw away all my old cable ties and start fresh. New colors. New sizes. I know I have 20 years invested in those old cable ties but they have simply lost their attraction for me. I no longer care for them. Sure we've bound many things together over the years but what have they done for me lately?
I mean I like my old cable ties and everything but I don't REALLY like them. I think going to the USA will be good because it will give me my space to decide what I really want to do with my cable ties. I think I do need this time to myself away from my cable ties.
My cable ties are old, some are discolored, many are not as pliable as they used to be. New cable ties are so bright and strong. They are VERY flexible and a pleasure to work with. I don't think I can depend on my old cable ties any more.
I wonder if the manufacturer of your current brand of cable ties understands your feelings about their ties. Do they understand your frustration, your unhappiness, your yearning for something "fresh". If you shared that with them they would then be in a position to meet your ties needs. Information is key here, Pio. You must share your feelings, your doubts, and your frustrations so that the current tie manufacturer can try to meet your current tie needs. This also gives them the information they need to decide whether your current tie needs are something they feel they want to meet. Perhaps they won't care about losing you as a customer if they feel your needs are something they can't, or don't want, to meet.
It's not that. My current cable ties have never met my needs. I've never liked them. I don't know why I've even kept them as long as I have. They've always made me so unhappy. I know new cable ties would solve all this. So why even bother with the old cable ties? I don't see the point.
This is a hard thing to do but have you considered that your current feelings about your cable ties have more to do with your own personal angst than the brand of cable ties? After all, you made a long term commitment to your current ties when you purchased so many. There must have been something very appealing to you about them, something very useful and personally satisfying for you to have made that kind of commitment.
Unless, you're the type of person who acts on a whim. Looking back, do you think you were rash and perhaps you'd not considered very carefully the purchase of the old ties? Did you act on surface feelings alone about the beauty of the ties and attributed to them characteristics they didn't poscess because their physical appearance entranced you? Or, maybe you're doing that now with the new ties. You're feeling bored, would like something new and stimulating in your life and don't know how to find that for yourself so you're looking for some thing to do that for you, sure that the newness will be what can satisfy you.
Consider that it's easy to cast blame on your current ties as having "never met your needs". It's easier to blame the ties for being faulty or not up to your current standards than it is to consider you role in the purchase and use of the ties. It's also easy to think a new tie will solve all your tie needs because now when you look at your old ties all you see is negative attributes. If you have half your mind already at the store looking over all the, what you consider to be better, "fresh" ties, your old ties will look as if they could never measure up.
Well this is a new day. My neighbor came over last night needing 10 blue cable ties. I was happy to get rid of them. I can't even remember when I got them but I was bored with them anyway. He repaid me with 10 pink cable ties. I've never had pink cable ties! This was exciting. So I went to another neighbor to see what colors he had and sure enough we swapped some cable ties. Tonight I'm going to see some more neighbors.
I guess I can keep my old cable ties and just spice up the collection a little from time to time by swapping some. That will keep me from throwing out my old cable ties for a completely new set. Besides - it is fun!
Well, yes, that sounds a good plan. But it could have pitfalls. One day your neighbour might refuse to swap you the green ones you really, really want and offer you blue ones.
You may be tempted to go behind his back and just TAKE the green ones.
As long as we are open and honest about our cable tie exchanges, I can't see how anybody could get hurt. I people weren't meant to swap cable ties, why did they make them in so many colors and sizes. It's insane to expect a person to stay with only one type of cable tie their entire life. What would be interesting about that?
OTOH if my neighbor did take my cable ties behind my back, I know I would never be able to trust him again. I would hate to think he is that type of person. I do know that I would tell all my other neighbors so that they could protect their cable ties.
Well I just walked outside and I saw "my" blue cable ties on my neighbor's fence. They reminded me of when I used blue cable ties in Muscat for Christmas 5 years ago and again when I repaired DD1's electric Jeep in Dubai in 2004. I have a history with those blue cable ties. Now I'm looking at the pink ones and realize that they hold no meaning for me. They aren't nearly as bright and shiney as they were when I got them last night. I wish I had never given my blue ones away.
No one but you thought your old cable ties were unattractive. They weren't. I bet they're as shiny and serviceable as your fancy pantsy new ones. You just won't see it.
Be on the lookout for a DHL package in the next three or four days that I just sent to you. It's a garden gnome with a snake hidden inside. Geez I crack myself up!
Why don't you get some Sharpies or other permanent markers and color your cable ties to suit your mood? Just buy the white ties and color them any color or combination of colors that you desire. Some art might be just the thing to enhance your projects.
Maybe I could keep the cable ties. There is a new poster here who has given me some ideas. I'll keep the cable ties for most things but I'll also experiment with other things. Velcro. Chewing gum. Wire twists (I REALLY like that one!). I wouldn't be being unfaithful to my cable ties - these are a completely different type of fastener.
You know if your old cable ties are used properly I think you'll find they'll beat even wire twists. All those other ties are exciting but they really don't do the serviceable job that cable ties are designed for. Those other fasteners are such a flash in the pan solution and they just won't hold up and last the distance like cable ties will.
Look at your cable ties with new eyes. Look at all they've done for you and how they've been with you through thick and thin.
Okay I realize this is more of a ToddAC question but I’ll give it a shot anyway.
Let’s say you have a Honda CBR 1000 which has a black leather seat with a surface area of 1.3 square feet. The outside temperature is 118.4F at 12:00PM and the bike is sitting uncovered under a cloudless sky with a relative humidity of 35%. In order to account for convective heat transfer, assume that the wind velocity is 15 miles per hour.
For the sake of simplicity, assume steady state conditions have been achieved and the seat has attained thermal equilibrium.
Assume the rider is wearing chino Dockers (conductive heat transfer coefficient may be estimated).
Taking all these factors into consideration, how long will it take the rider to stop crying after he sits on it?
Please demonstrate all calculations.
Note: All answers will be validated against a recently conducted empirical study. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
Ok, my last word on the cable ties. Pio, you only have one life and you deserve what you want. If your current cable ties don't do it for you just ditch them. You've already listed a host of reasons why your old ties don't excite you any more so move on. After all,this life is all about you and your desires, so experiment, try other ties, keep your original ones around just in case you're feeling nostalgic.
Bottom line: This is all about you and your happiness so indulge your desires, you deserve it.
I…I…I’m sooo sorry! I know I’ll never be able to face any of you ever again. I’ve done a very bad thing. I still can’t believe it. I’m not even sure exactly how it happened. I’ve betrayed my principles. I’ve gone against everything I believed in! I’m not a good person.
Don't ever think it can't happen to you - because it can.
It all started out innocently enough. My goal this morning was to take the car out for new tires.
The day was going great at first. And then…it happened. I swear I never planned it. I wish I could explain "why" but I know there is no why. I am to blame.
I got to the tire shop to buy new tires and….I….I…NO! It’s just too horrible to speak! I’m sorry….
Well WW and DDs left last night. I was wondering how I would hold up these last few weeks. I keep reminding myself that I cannot control WW's actions and I wanted to avoid all LB's. I think it went even better than I could have hoped. I think even I would want to be married to me.
PB's xGF contacted me again last week. She is here and wants to talk. I'm not sure what about but every time she has contacted me in the past, it has depressed me. Maybe I'll just avoid her.
I know that WW could easily contact PB. If she does, I'll know it by the way she acts. I'm just going to see how I hold up the next 5 weeks. If I get down, just give me a good thumping. Right now I feel great. I have a bright red CBR1000 calling me right now.
I didn't go to the airport with WW yesterday. I said my goodbyes here. DD1 has been depressed and crying and begging to stay with me rather than go with WW. So WW and I talked about it and agreed it would be better to avoid the potential of a nasty scene at the airport. Last time that happened, it didn't work out so well.
This is what xGF told me last week. She says that PB did go to Mexico for a year to teach English expecting gemela to leave us and run off to him. Also according to xGF, PB recently left Mexico and sent a message to one of their mutual friends here saying "slap the Mexican for me" as he was upset she didn't comply with his plans.
What bothers me about it is that, unless the guy is just a complete lunatic, for him to have done that makes me infer that there was some level of contact between the two. Maybe not too often but maybe once in a while a common friend would pass gemela a message. I don't know. If that did happen, gemela has certainly lied about it.
OTOH gemela's actions and attitude don't indicate anything like that. It is surreal. I'm still not sure that xGF isn't just trying to cause trouble. I know she has issues with gemela but why would she want to hurt the DDs and me?
Personally, I don't think the xGF has your best interests at heart. I think she'll lash out at anybody out of bitterness. I really don't think you should be in contact with her.
Being pragmatic, what piece of information can she possibly have for me that will help my situation? If she wants to bring up historical information, what good is that now? If she wants to prove to me that gemela and PB are working a major conspiracy, what can I do about it right now? If she wants to convince me that PB is stalking gemela, again - what can I do?
I don't see any upside. I have to admit that I sometimes imagine an international DD hunt with gemela and PB stealing the DDs. But my DDs wouldn't allow that. Get DD1 anywhere near an airport and someone will call the SWAT team. And it gemela did that, she would never be able to see her beloved family again - ever.
I think it is more likely that PB is just a lunatic. If he did go to Mexico, he did it in his own fog and on a lark. He as no roots and no career and no future. He could easily live in a palapa on the beach for a year and have a hundred girlfriends to keep him warm while he waited for gemela.
But at the end of the day, gemela's choices are hers. I'm not her keeper.
I do believe that if someone had tried to pass a note to gemela, she would have thrown it in the trash. I also think it is likely he has tried to contact her. She swears he hasn't. Doesn't really matter.
Yesterday was funny. She was the one who didn't want to go. I was okay with it. We'll see how I'm holding up in a couple of weeks but right now I feel pretty well balanced.
I can't really explain it but I'm not the slightest bit worried about anything.
Gemela has always said she wanted to learn to ride a sport bike. (Okay she said she wanted to learn to ride the Harley I bought her but never did even try) So day before yesterday I told her to go for a ride with me. We went out into the jebels were there isn't much traffic and I stopped and got off and told her to ride. She was hesitant at first but I reminded her she always said she wanted to ride so do it or shut up about it. She got on and asked about the gears. I just asked her to please try not to drop it.
So she puts it in gear and goes on off. She stayed in 1st gear for about 1Km. Joggers passed her. She turned around and came back and says she got up to 3rd gear. When she got back to where I was standing, she held the clutch and stopped with the front brake which, on a honda, would stop a train on a dime. So she starts to go over the handlebars. She stops herself but is holding the clutch, bike is in 1st gear because she missed neutral, her hand is holding the front brake so tightly that she also has the throttle red lined. I hate to think what would have happened if she had let go of the clutch. So I hit the kill switch. I calmed her down and took her home. She was shaking like a leaf all day long.
I told her she did great. She had survived and it would just get easier each time.
Now, if you're a guy, you will understand how difficult that was for me. I'm not sure I could have done it with the Harley though...
Well if WW does leave me, I no longer have to fret over being alone. I just go this email!
Quote
Aloha, dear
Well, I’ve finally gathered all my braveness to write to you.. Even though you should know how hard it is to write a letter to a Stranger, whom you’ve never seen before and whom you don’t know at all, but I truly believe that in this case, my perspective acquaintance with You is more than enough for an excuse:) Truly speaking, I have thought in the past of such an option, to meet someone through the letter, but I wasn’t brave enough for this. I guess, I am still not brave enough, but my wish to be happy and to be loved is overfilling my heart and head. I am not a complicated person, nor simple. I am an individual, that’s for sure. I don’t know what your character is and how you look like, most important is that I am not going to change you. I want to like you as you are and just be happy. I can answer to you at http://supertolove.com/coollove and will be happy if our relations continue.
One doesn't need to be a guy to understand how you felt seeing abuse to your motorcycle. ex and I used to ride combo street and dirt bikes and had a great time. I love to ride motorcycles and would buy one just for fun if I could. If your bike is too big for Gemella she may be intimidated and not want to learn to ride. I like a bike that doesn't make me feel I have to struggle to keep it up, even if other bikers might think it's to small.
Hey, here's an idea. If your coming to the states and want to get rid of a bike crate it up and I'll meet it at the entry point. Boston would work for me. Shipping can't be THAT much can it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I airfreighted my Harley from Dubai to Houston for about $1,400. A 100th anniversary Deuce. Then BIL dropped it and cratered the tank. Oh well...
The Fireblade is much lighter but sits much higher so she can't really put her feet down.
Something is really bothering me though. I can't quite work out the mechanics of how you can turn a motorcycle without moving the handlebars. It is not intuitive. You can't do THAT on a Harley.
I haven't ridden much at all since I got to Saudi. My left arm is killing me.
At some point I hope to be able to get another bike. I love to go for the day on back roads, stopping for lunch or wherever is interesting. Better with two, so maybe if I'm lucky enough to end up in a long term relationship he'll want to ride too.
Her feet can't comfortably touch the ground? Not good.
The mechanics of riding may not be intuitive but if you know how to ride a bicycle turning the handlebars shouldn't be the difficult part. G wants to ride or wants to say she can ride?
I'm almost afraid to ask...why is your left arm hurting?
I once rode from Oklahoma to Villahermosa Tabasco by myself. That was a great experience. I have literally seen Mexico top to bottom. When I got to the Mexican crossing, the guard asked me where I was going. When I told him, he said I should fly instead. I told him I didn't have a plane. He shook his head, crossed himself and let me go. It was probably not the smartest thing I've ever done.
But it is amazing how Mexico varies from the high plains to the mountains to the subtropical forests. I got lost in Mexico City. I finally saw a traffic cop so stopped and asked him for directions. Another cop saw us and I guess out of curiosity stopped to see what the problem was. The first cop explained what I wanted and was giving me directions. The other cop thought he knew a better way and tried to tell me. Well before long this turned into a shouting match between the two cops so I just left. They didn't even notice. Then I paid a taxi driver 50 pesos to drive to the Puebla highway so I could follow him.
I learned a few lessons. Don't EVER drive at night in Mexico. Take what you need to rejet your carbs for the mountains. And, most importantly, it really is better to fly.
The trip sounds good except for the traveling alone in Mexico part. Just my experience here but men seem to take these kinds of trips to the extreme; too many miles a day, not stopping often enough or for long enough, not stopping before you're in a position you don't want to be in. I don't know, maybe for men it's a quest, when for women it would be an adventure vacation. I guess the keys are enough time and money to do it comfortably. As you point out it's important to be able to adjust your bike for conditions, that's something I'd either have to learn or ride with someone who can do it.
I remember our R.V. trip from Connecticut to Arizona one year. Had we taken more time, spent less time each day driving and more exploring interesting things along the way instead of pushing to the limit, I think it would have been more enjoyable. Is it a man thing to push and challenge themselves, and the family, on what might otherwise be a nice vacation? There were a couple of weekend experiences we had in Spain which started out as leisurely trips to see this and that but ended up pushed to the limit. Maybe the rule of thumb was to do until someone got crabby then it was time to stop.
On second thought, it's probably a good thing you were by yourself on your Mexico trip.
It was just over 3000 KM in four days. I think two days were 10 hours, on was 11 hours and one day almost 12 hours (including lost time in D.F.). I was in a hurry because I had a date with gemela. She stood me up.
I did once ride on a Greyhound bus (NEVER again if I have ANY choice) from CT to St.Louis for a date with my then future husband. He did not stand me up.
One of the children who goes to preschool where my family goes to church is only 4 years old. He has a younger sibling. And a mom. Last Saturday, his dad was killed while riding his bicycle.
Okay I have resolved my problem with the Michelin tires. I just tell myself that, whenever I drive, I'm trodding upon them. It actually makes me feel pretty good!
It's actually a preventative measure. I'm afraid if WW keeps hitting me on the arm all night that eventually I'll get a blood clot from all the bruising.
hmm. The $1200 for a laup could save your marriage and your life. A small price to pay. -BigKangaroona
Says the man who BRAGS about his legendary snoring!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Poor Mrs. BK! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
Mr. W is supposed to have a series of shots in his throat this summer that according to his Ear, Nose and Throat specialist will do the trick...Apparently you have a sore throat for about a month afterwards...That's a bummer, but I must say that I am looking forward to a quite night's sleep...
Mr. W once went camping and woke up the next morning to find that EVERYBODY else had moved their tents because his snoring is so unbearable...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
It does NOT for Mr. W or "TheSnoreWhore" as I affectionately refer to him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I have even tried wearing earplugs to bed...Doesn't work, I can STILL hear him...It's CRAZY I tell ya!
And YOU "Shaddup" BK...I'm hoping that at the HoDownUnder Mr. W's problem will be GONE...If not, you and he can have all the contests that you want...Mrs. BK and I will be in a suite together at the Ritz Carlton! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I just went to check the mail. The IRS is pleased to tell me that, after futrher consideration of my tax returns, that they have accepted them as filed.
When I got home yesterday and opened the door, I got a brief glimpse of AW dashing off. I wonder what she wasn't wearing? TMI.
Well it's been almost a week since WW left and I'm still putting the toilet seat down. Why?
I'm also very sick right now. I have the flu big time. Weekend is coming up and I may have to spend it in bed. That's a shame because I was planning the "hamster cull" this Thursday. I've got to get rid of all these buckets and boxes. I never knew that hamsters had such personalities. I swear no two of them can get along. They are just like my OWN family!
Don't you understand that hamsters can and will kill each other?????? Don't you know it would be very bloody??? It isn't pretty!!!!
Hmmmmmmm...now where's that video camera......?
DDs had some friends over last weekend before they left. We had a lot of the hamsters in solitary in their individual cells. But we found two of those hamsters together. One of the frinds had left them that way. About an hour later, I caught them in a rather compromising position. I'm hoping their both male and were just trying to "help each other out" after having been "alone" for so long. Like Midnight Express.
i know....but, if they insist on attempting to explore each other, maybe they should have their baby makers removed.
My d once got a hamster from a pet store...it was a girl....from the girl container. A few days later, she discovered that her hamster was a 'buy one - get 6 free' deal.
Wow 2much! You are tough! I'm glad you have a new start. I bet the distance and new job help. I understand what you mean about adult interaction. My sister, years ago, quit her job as an executive to become a SAHM when her son was born. She did that for four years - hardly ever leaving the house. Finally when DS was ready for preschool, she got a job as a comptroller of a local energy company. She couldn't have been there more than a day or two when she was in a management meeting. She was sitting very close to the CEO when he accidentally knocked over his cup of coffee. She immediately jumped up, grabbed tissues and starting wiping the coffee off the CEO and said "awww did Mikey have a booboo?". Silence in the room. She had been away from adults WAY too long.
I'm in pain. I've hurt myself pretty badly. Family left last weekend and AW housemaid left to go over to her friend's house to spend the night so I have the whole house to myself.
Well, do you remember Tom Cruise in Risky Business? You get the idea.
Only Tom didn't have to deal with dried up grape juice spills on the tile left behind by DD2. OWWWW!
Houston we have a problem. I had the LAUP all set to go for July 27 but I just learned that The Simpsons movie is coming out that same day. There is no way I can make the appointment since I will be camped out in front of the movie theater starting at midnight on that day. Not sure what to do.
I have a question. We get our Simpsons a little delayed here and I notice they killed off Ned Flanders' wife. What’s the story? Did she get in a salary dispute and force the producers to write her out of the script? That’s too bad if true. I hope she is doing okay. I haven’t seen her in anything since.
And I have another question. I just watched the first episode of The Apprentice LA. I love that show. But how can everyone go for a 16 week job interview and fit everything into one Pullman suitcase? And why don’t the car trunks work? I used to think maybe it was just a taxi thing in NYC but those are pretty expensive cars they are using in LA. Those heavy bags must do terrible damage to the upholstery.
I have NEVER gotten in a cab sitting with my suitcase except when traveling with WW in which case all her bags won't fit in the trunk. But those guys are alone. It's weird.
Well family is now gone a week and I am having a little bit of anxiety. Each night I have a dream where I catch WW in contact with PB. I have not spoken to PBxGF but her little seed about PB being in Mexico does weigh on me.
I'm not so worried that she is indeed in contact with OM. I'm fairly fatalistic about that. What I mean is that she will make her own choices. If she wants to, she will.
What I am worried about is that I may not find out about it.
OTOH, if she has resumed with PB, there will be no way for her to hide it. I know the signs now. But it is five more weeks till I see her.
I know all that. I don't know why it bothers me though. If she is contacting him, there is one good outcome - at least I can know for certain that the M is over and I can get on with my life.
I don't really believe she has contacted him. But there is that sniggling little doubt. Just one of the scars of infidelity.
So keep the pine tar and the big lumber handy. I may need a good whacking before this is over.
I've just read this whole thread again and now I'm upset and depressed. Not just Todd, but Lunamare and Nams and 2Much and Larousse and Believer and everyone else who was funny and witty and intelligent.
LOL as you wish. He didn't say why he can email me. I'm presuming it's because I'm a completely safe person to email. I'm also presuming his wife reads all his emails which is as it should be.
I don't know where BigK is today. I did talk to WW last night. For some reason I was very nervous before I called. I hate to say all the different scenarios I had imagined. Anyway, the call went very well and no reason to worry. I also got a very nice email from her which was not the email of a WW in cahoots with OM.
Well I have a challenge. I'm going to go through TKO once again and I'm going to look for my favorite Todd post of all time. I have a front-runner in mind but the jury is still out. I'll post it when I'm done.
You sound just like my WW when I confronted her about the A.
I'm working hard to get in shape for Cancun next month. Last week in Bahrain I read in a newspaper something about diet tips from the stars. In the article, Giselle Bundchen said she always puts something hot in her food to get a "thermogenic burn". Ever tried putting extra hot picante sauce in your Grape Nuts? Oh well. No pain - no gain...I mean...loss ... in this case.
Okay I've just had a very stressful morning so I need to post this. Remeber that WW is off in Mexico with the DDs at SIL's house. This morning (her night) I decided to call. Well I got my calculations a bit off and had not factored in daylight savings time (which I didn't even remember that Mexico uses) so it was an hour later than I thought and they were all asleep.
So SIL answers and, when I realize I just woke her up, I ask her what time it is there. She tells me so I feel bad and hang up. Well WW calls me back five minutes later to tell me to call her (she does this so I pay for the call). But the number that registered in the caller ID was strange yet somehow familiar. Usually when we get land line calls from Mexico, it says "unknown number". But this showed a number 43-842-0406. This isn't a local number yet it isn't an international number either. And yet it seemed like a number I recognized. I thought maybe it was a Bahrain number but it didn't look quite like a Bahrain number either. Sometimes our GSM networks do things a little strangely. There was just something with this number that raised a red flag.
Well WW and I have lived for 3 years without cellphones due to infidelity (she used them a lot with OM) but I broke down about a month ago and got her one. I did that because I couldn't find her one day, assumed the worst and, well, almost got divorced. But her local number here will not work overseas. Last time we were in Bahrain, I bought prepaid GSM cards for each of us for emergencies but this GSM card will work anywhere in the world (at a price). Against my better judgment but since we are not returning on the same day, I sent her with the GSM card in case of emergency. But since we hardly ever use those GSM cards, I can't remember the number. And yet that number on the ID seemed so familiar.
So I decided to go home at lunch and look up the GSM number to see if there was a match. Even so, there was something odd about that number and I just knew it couldn't be her Bahrain GSM card. The more I thought about it, the more I was convinced that she had bought a new GSM card and was using it to contact OM. But, if she had, why would that number seem familiar? Must be a coincidence. I was seething on the way home. I was totally pissed. I went inside, blew past amazon woman and found the GSM numbers - NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!! I'm climbing the walls now. I'm done. I'm mad. I'm already planning what I'm going to say to WW. Custody, etc. Gawd I'm mad! But do I maybe want to still try to save the M? No. Forget it. Not any more. I'm done.
When I had called, she was asleep. She called me back so fast and was so groggy that she didn't even think about switching the GSM card back to the Bahrain one. I had caught her read-handed! This was no coincidence! God was trying to show me something! This was all the evidence she needed.
So WW called me from a GSM from a number that she should not have. And yet there was something odd about that number. I checked my watch, calculated the time correctly, factored in how long I should let them sleep vs. how long I could actually wait. Would they mind getting up at 4:00AM? Not my problem! I may call right now. No. I'll wait. A little. I was ready for confrontation! This was it. No more lies. No more false recovery. Divorce plain and simple.
Let's not forget that I found out about the A while WW was off on vacation with the DDs and later found she was secretly calling OM! Deja vu!!! Talk about PTSD! I'm reliving Dday all over again!
But what was it about that number? Didn't matter! This was it! I decided to wait until 4:00PM to call and I made lunch. I then thought about what I would say when she made some lame excuse about just needing a local GSM card in case of emergencies there. I could hear all her rationalizations. The gall of that woman!
Then it hit me. I didn't recognize that number yet I did. It wasn't the number I remembered - it was the prefix. Most times a call from Mexico shows up as "unknown number". I don't understand the phone system here but I am guessing that sometimes, for whatever reason, calls get rerouted through a local exchange. Because every time that we have gotten a 43-8xx-xxxx number before, it has always been either her sister or her father.
In fact, if she had called from her GSM, my caller ID would have registered the number. So she was not using her GSM - or another GSM. She was asleep at SIL's house and is not guilty of anything.
So I feel both better and like an idiot. I'm glad it was nighttime there or I might be on the road to divorce this second.
Thanks for letting me share this little infidelity moment with you. I feel calm now.
Amazing what lingering effects infidelity has. Priceless.
One day I did that. Looked at our phone bill and saw a number I didn't recognize and was triggering like crazy. I actually called the number back and it turned out it was her friend and I felt like a complete moron. It is sad how little it takes to put me into a tailspin like that too. I know how you feel.
Well that's just great! I was feeling bad enough. Now I'm a complete moron! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
She tried to send me an email yesterday but bad phone connections prevented a connection. So BIL sent it this AM (their [your] AM) from his office so I just got it a few minutes ago (after all the drama). It was a really great email.
Gee...I guess I really am a complete moron. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
You're not a moron, Pio, just a man dealing with the trauma of infidelity. It is, after all, the "gift" that keeps giving. Don't be so hard on yourself, your WW's behavior is what caused you to react the way you did and it was not an over reaction. It s..cks to feel that way, but it's not of your creation.
I missed the news about Todd. I hope he's managing.
2much, I'm glad to hear you're moving on and your kids are coping. I wish you the best, you deserve it.
Pio - it's all totally understandable. Shows how far you have to go in your recovery though. One day, you will give her the benefit of the doubt - when she has earned your trust back. You're not there yet. That isn't your fault.
I started thinking last night about reality versus self-servicing illusion. First, I have to say that, in marriage at least, there is no one reality. H and W each have their own view of reality. Case in point was when I believed I had a very happy M and W had decided that it wasn’t. I was gobsmacked that we could have such diametrically opposed views of the same thing. So apparently we tend to twist our realities to fit our needs at any given time. Okay I do have a point.
Although we are all here by the grace of one root cause, we fall into very different categories. I am not going to consider other groups that would not routinely post on this board (for legitimate reasons – trolls don’t count nor do people here only to chat with friends). I’m posting this because of a comment by one particular poster (who I don’t particularly respect but that’s another issue) but I think the comment captures well the polarity of views among the groups.
Consider the three basic premises: 1) those who believe a WS is basically a good person who made a mistake but wishes to atone for it. 2) those who believe that any person will be a WS given the opportunity and 3) only "bad" people become wayward while "good" people never cheat.
Now where do we each fit into that scenario?
Group 1) BS’s who have recovered or are trying to recover their marriages. This will include people in Plan B. RWS’s (recovered/recovering) who accept their mistake and try to atone for it. Waywards trying to return from Plan B/D after recognizing the error of their ways. Group 1 is, I believe, the largest group. The people in this group believe that the WS knows the A was their own fault and they accept this full responsibility without trying to displace blame anywhere else. This does not mean that the BS believes that he/she did not contribute to problems in the M in some cases. But it does mean that an A is never considered an acceptable option. I believe it is very difficult for WS’s in this group. As humans, we don’t like to admit we are wrong. We always like to find someone else to blame. For a WS to fall into this group goes against their nature. Just to clarify, Plan D people may be Rocks as well. What I would define as a dicorced Rock is one who made a valiant effort to try to save the M.
Group 2) FWS’s who accept that what they did was wrong but with a caveat. They say that anyone could cheat given the right circumstances. Any person given the opportunity will cheat so they are simply a victim of circumstance. The important point here is that these WS’s on some level consider themselves victims. They have never quite taken full ownership of the A. This is more in line with human nature. This WS goes out of his/her way to NOT find fault in themself. They were seduced. BS didn’t give them enough attention. OP was a predator. Name it.
Group 3) This group includes BS’s who divorced without putting up a fight, BS’s who are in Plan B but have decided they don’t want WS back, new BS’s right after Dday in some cases, A WS in this category generally wouldn’t stay on the board except as a troll.
Now these three groups coexist on the board but each group is dangerous to one of the other groups and that, I believe, is why some seemingly simple arguments can explode in nuclear proportions. But why? The reason is that no matter which group you are in, one of the other groups is a direct threat to your belief system. And this threat must be extinguished.
I’m not very smart and I need to keep things on simple terms. I was thinking about this last night as I was falling asleep and it occurred to me that what we have here is a game of rock-paper-scissors.
For no particular reason, I’m going to call Group 1 Rock. Group 2 is Paper and group 3 is Scissors.
Scissors doesn’t like Rock. The reason is that Rock always represents doubt to Scissors that Scissors made the right decision. Scissors dumped WS because they knew WS would always be unfaithful yet Rock is empirical evidence that it may not be true. Maybe Scissors made a mistake. Maybe Scissors decided prematurely to end the M. Maybe Scissors might have been happier if Scissors had tried a bit harder. This self-doubt is killing Scissors. Surely Rock is wrong! Rock is an idiot! Rock as dumb as, well, a stone! Scissors will do everything and anything it can to try to cut Rock. Scissors may even chip off a few fragments of Rock but, in the end, Rock is still there. Some particularly sharp Scissors seem to go out of their way to try to chip Rock. So Scissors needs to be careful of Rock because it is always a threat to Scissors’ view of reality. The pieces of rock that do get chipped away by Scissors become through a process of alchemy not yet understood, Scissors themselves. Scissors likes this. This helps reinforce Scissors belief system. Safety in numbers. Some Scissors are blunt. Other Scissors are honed with surgical precision. If Rock dulls the Scissor, Scissor will run back to the whetstone. Broken Scissors generally are discarded off the board or become chatters.
For its part, Rock is deathly afraid of paper. Rock wants to believe that RWS will provide them a happy marriage. Rock wants to believe it was a mistake and no repeat A will take place. Rock knows that it weathered this storm but the next time would reduce it to rubble. So Rock needs to believe that the RWS is back on board the M. Paper represents a very serious problem for Rock. If Paper is real, Rock may be in trouble. Rock asks itself if it is possible that, given another opportunity, Paper will fold yet again faster than a Chinese contortionist. So the very existence of Paper is a direct threat to Rock. Rock will try to attack Paper in the hope of knocking holes in it but Paper is too strong for that. As far as Scissors goes, Rock thinks of Scissors as insignificant in Rock’s beliefs and goals.
Now Paper thinks of Rock as naïve. Stupid Rock deludes itself with this Pollyanna mentality. Paper is threatened by Rock because Paper doesn’t want to look inside and admit that Paper was wrong. Paper has pride (as does Scissors). Paper simply could not have been wrong! Paper must cover any attempt Rock makes to make Paper see otherwise. However Paper is definitely afraid of Scissors. Paper must defend it’s self-perception as a former wayward and one that will NOT cheat again. Scissors says otherwise. Scissors says that it is just a matter of time. Paper refuses to believe this. Scissors will cut Paper to shreds at any and every opportunity. Paper must avoid Scissors at all costs.
So this is helping me understand MB a little better. I finally have it broken down into something simple even I can understand – Rock, Paper, Scissors.
Well, if you wish to carefully examine a thread that appeared yesterday, you might surprise yourself. But since you are a BS, you can't be in group 2. I'm referring to self-servicing illusion. How we can form our belief system to further our goal.
If you truly believed your wife would cave again at the first opportunity, I doubt you would choose to remain married to her. It would not make you feel safe.
I don't think that obviously. But we could all be susceptible to an affair under the right conditions. Hopefully MB gives us the tools so we make sure those planets never align.
But we could all be susceptible to an affair under the right conditions.
I absolutely agree. The difference is group 1 accepts it, recognizes it as their mistake and takes preventative action. Group 2 regards the A as an inevitability and, if it happens, yet again it will not be their fault. The difference between the two is who is really responsible for the A. Group 2 deceives themselves to try to shed blame.
One day, you will give her the benefit of the doubt
Actually I think I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sitting here believe she is calling OM with no accountability. I do believe she is NOT contacting him.
And, BTW, no hugs between men on TKO. You know the rules. We only do shoulder pats.
But tell me what you REALLY think. Don't hold back.
No. What I'm saying is that there is a bit of a dance going on here at MB at times. Three basic groups with each attacking one but not the other. Each group has a continual need to reinforce it's belief system.
Scissors don't bother me. Paper scares me. It scares me because, if their view of things is true, I'm wasting my time trying to recover my M. Might as well divorce and become a Scissor.
Please don’t get po’d Pio, but your algorithm is broken.
By your legend, I am a Scissors (divorced F-BS).
For several years as a Scissors I have been eagerly supporting, in a positive & respectful manner, fellow BS who happen to be in recovery, or not, and F-WS (Rock & Paper). For empirical evidence, please feel free to data mine my posts via the search engine.
Some of those Rocks & Papers are very dear friends of mine, a subset of whom I have met in real life.
Now I know the game Rock, Scissors, Paper doesn’t allow for a fourth element (exceptions), so I guess its back to the drawing board for YOU.
Quote
And, BTW, no hugs between men on TKO. You know the rules. We only do shoulder pats.
{{{BigK
LMAO You two are a couple of nut balls. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Please don’t get po’d Pio, but your algorithm is broken.
Sorry but no. You can still be a divorced Rock. Plan D is just an extended Plan B. It all depends on what your view of the WS is. Is the WS a good person gone bad or a bad person uncovered? You also may have one view of your specific WS but a kinder view of WS's in general. That would still be a rock.
Sure it's easy for you to sit back and throw rocks...er...stones at my theory. At least I'm putting something out there.
It all depends on what your view of the WS is. Is the WS a good person gone bad or a bad person uncovered? You also may have one view of your specific WS but a kinder view of WS's in general.
I try not to categorize anyone. There are bad and good in all, regardless of what hat they have on.
Quote
Plan D is just an extended Plan B.
LOL Please tell Evanka Trumph that. I'm sure her attorney would be interested as well. Not to mention a few bazillion other divorced folks.
I did enjoy reading it, Pio. But can't help but see the holes.
I’m going to call Group 1 Rock. Group 2 is Paper and [color:"blue"] Group 3 is Scissors [/color]
[color:"blue"]Group 3) [/color]This group includes [color:"blue"] BS’s who divorced[/color], BS’s who are in Plan B but have decided they don’t want WS back, new BS’s right after Dday in some cases, A WS in this category generally wouldn’t stay on the board except as a troll.
I am not a Rock, I'm [color:"blue"]Scissors[/color].
During my A my H was very close to a woman who owned a store in the same block as ours. Because I was so distant he consulted her on his life and decisions and confided many things to her. She was the first person he told about my A and he said she "hugged" him and cried. He portrayed her to me as a middle aged woman who was a little on the overweight side.
When I eventually met her I found she was an extremely attractive vivacious blonde.
My H swears he is not wired to have an A. I said to him after D-day he was very close to J during my A and he denied it strenuously.
I guess that's neither here nor there but I'm sorry, I still think that there's the possibility the most sensible, serious, moral, upright person can still succumb.
There's no caveat there, it doesn't make the person a victim, it's still a choice, but I've seen it too many times (IRL and on infidelity boards) to discount it.
I guess that's neither here nor there but I'm sorry, I still think that there's the possibility the most sensible, serious, moral, upright person can still succumb.
There's no caveat there, it doesn't make the person a victim, it's still a choice, but I've seen it too many times (IRL and on infidelity boards) to discount it.
LOL GC, I have NO idea what you are talking about.
Group 4 was, IMHO, FWS's who accepted full responsibility for their choices.
I've spoken to BS's here and on other boards who became the WS. Not even revenge A's, A's that hit them from out of the blue. It's not pretty but it happens.
I am not sure I should reply to you because you've been quite unpleasant with me in the past; also, with 11 thousand + replies already, I very much doubt this thread still revolves arond your original question. However, something in your original question made me think and I will try to reply to it. If I understand it correctly you would like to know what is it about the OM in an A that seeems to hold so much power over a woman, right?
I would start by saying that this is not always the case. It does happen with certain women. Not all. As I see it, it is not a rule.
I confess I don't know anything about your story; with this out of the way I will say that this was the case in my personal experience (OP having almost superhuman power over me; like a magnet). It is also true that my A never became real and did not die a natural death. Literally. OP wanted me to move with him to a different country and leave my family. I did not. He died of leukemia 1 and a half years later. The pain of a thousand "what ifs", magnified his qualities.
But to be quite frank, I do not think this is the reason why it was so difficult to get over him. What happened is that he made me discover inside of me a woman I never knew existed. Too long to explain, but in a nutshell, a part of me as a woman, only blossomed with OM, NOT with my own H. I think, when this happens, it is extremely difficult for the woman to get over their OM.
I edited the post to try to clarify my definitions a bit more. To be honest, I don't know your sitch but I have always gotten the impression that you were a rock. At least that's what comes out in your posts.
What is it about me that brings these posters out of the woodwork. People that stop posting forever and then come straight to me. Remember that multiple personality from Mexico that posted under like 4 different screen names - each with it's own story - and decided to take out all her anger on me? She eventually changed her screen name to my WW's name before I convinced the mods to change it to something else?
TGIW. The weekend is an hour away. I have spent the last 3 hours and 17 minutes trying to determine whether four calls on the department's monthly statement are business or personal calls. I finally tracked down the offending employee and got to the bottom of the calls. They were, in fact, business related so I approved them - at a grand total cost to the company of 36 halala which is the equivalent of USD $0.09. The sad part is this doesn't even bother me any more.
I'm not a WW but believe my ex was and BB's statement that (I don't know her circumstances or story) OP made her feel things or discover parts of herself she couldn't with her H, is something I suspected my ex felt. Don't throw away the baby with the bath water. Her statement rings true and has value.
ex related to me in one way and I don't think he could imagine himself able to open up to me. Granted, he was emotionally unavailable, emotionally constipated and repressed, but the fact is he couldn't imagine himself the person he wanted to be if he stayed married to me. He never expressed this but it was gleaned from marriage counseling and bits and pieces of conversations.
Hi BigK! Have you gotten over the trauma of the high rate of tipping in the U.S.? I prefer the method many other countries use of minimal tipping.
Hey Kiwi! Hope all is well. Be happy you don't have to shovel heavy, wet snow with a layer of ice waiting at the bottom.
I agree not all waywards are alike. But I think the fact that a WS cannot "be all they can be" with the BS but can with the OP has far more to do with faults in the WS than problems with the BS.
I watched Titanic the other night. It is a classic case of a romantic affair complete with unrequited love, pinning forever, etc.
If I were married to BB, I would certainly go the divorce route. I would not want that kind of a WS in my life. I see she was posting the Divorced/Divorcing forum so I guess her H made the same decision.
I'll turn it the other way. I worry that I'll ever have the happiness I truly want after all that has happened. Certainly at this point, WW is diminishing my happiness.
BB is still lost in the fog. Her OM was her BIL. NC was apparently never even a consideration. Her situation was "unique" - just like everyone else's.
I absolutely agree with you, Pio that the ability of WS to be "more" with the OP than with their spouse is wrapped up in the WS's faults and character traits. It speaks more to the WS's inabilities than the BS's contribution to marital discord.
Yes, each WS seems to feel their situation is unique therefore no one, other than their affair partner, can truly understand them. I simply don't want to know more of BB's story, an affair with the BIL is about as far as I want to go.
The rock, paper, scissors scenario required too much mental effort to understand or maybe it's just too early in the morning for me. Plus I'm on vacation and my brain has gone into slow mode. I will say I'm thrilled to not be married to ex and be in a situation where his poor choices cause me anguish. There are still those haunting moments when triggers arise but they don't have the power they once did.
I don't think you're off the mark just that there is a bit of crossover and that definitions, feelings, and how we act on them are not always neat and easy.
I don't believe you when you say you thought of this as you were going to sleep. This line of thought is not sleep inducing.
Yeah, I figured you'd place me in the rock category and part of me is, but there's more that doesn't fit in as neatly.
Well I admit I did stretch a bit to get paper but after I thought on it, it made even more sense. Yes it was what went through my mind when the head hit the pillow. I decided to leave paper till the morning.
Clearly there are general groups of people here on the board that perceive other groups as a threat to their way of thinking. I could go into specifics but would rather avoid it. I was observing a different thread the other day and I could clearly see this interaction. Of course, I knew who the players were (mostly) so I knew their backgrounds.
Simple example: it is very easy for someone who never really worked to save their M to tell a new BS that they are better off without WS. But I believe that on some level that person gives that advice hoping to reinforce his own decision. Sort of like since that M didn't work, it's more proof I made the right decision to cut WS off when I did. For the BS to go against that advice and eventually recover the M, the poster, on some level, has to be second-guessing him/herself. That is a bit of a caricature but if you watch certain posters over time, you can see the behavior.
It's always easier, or so we think, to see another's problem and the solutions. I understand your example and there is truth to it. I agree there are many posters who can be categorized as being in one camp or another regarding their approach to trying to repair a marriage after infidelity, some more strident than others, certain their approach is the only correct one.
As far as reinforcing our decisions by offering advice that mirrors our choices, I'm sure there is some of that too. In general, I'm not a list or formula type. I'd like to think I take a situation and act according to its particular attributes.
Now that I'm divorced am I trying to make myself feel better about that and all it entails regarding me and my boys by saying I've benefited because of it? I don't think so, but I would have said yes to that question before I was divorced. Keep in mind that I never wanted to be divorced and fought like h..l to keep the marriage going.
That aside, we do see certain camps of thought not too dissimilar to political party beliefs.
I sometimes get to watch USA network news on MBC4 at odd hours of the morning. Since WW is away and couple that with my unusual sleep patterns and, well, opportunity arises.
Polotical campaign volunteers bother me. I'm not sure why. I saw this woman on the street trying to hand out flyers for one of the candidates. She was apologizing when people would just brush past her. But it isn't just that. These volunteers have always bothered me.
And then you look at the candidate's concession speech and you see all these volunteers actually crying. I just want to slap them. There may be some causes I would be that passionate about. Another individual's personal ambition could never qualify.
There is something internally wrong with these people to need this kind of gratification. I just don't understand what it is.
Now I mention this because I think the same or similar thing might apply to Scissors especially but to others to an extent.
I replied to you because you were asking a question which could only reasonably be replied by a woman who has been unfaithful (duhh). Whatever. <Shrug>
Incidentally, let me add here, that with a very few exceptions (and I am sure they know who they are), with the level of animosity, obstinate blindness, self-deceit, stupidity, delirious intolerance and bigotry I found on this place (and throw in a good deal of false arguments to make snooping around legitimate...), I am NOT surprised that you are trying to salvage your marriage. How could anyone sane and in control want to be married to you people ?? Heck, I'd run away with the first troll that came by !!
Do yourselves and your spouse(s) a favour and become single again.
2regret and nams and 2much, so nice to see you back here.
BB, FWIW, if Pio wants to ask questions of a woman who has been unfaithful he only needs to ask me and he often does because he knows he'll receive answers that are based on regret and remorse and will attempt to shed light - not answers that are like twisting the knife in a BS's heart.
You slap one check and I'll slap the other. I've never understood the passion these over-zealous types show for other peoples' ambitions. Well articulated, BTW. How do you feel about those who have never come across a protest they won't attend? How about those parents who volunteer for every committee or school related activity yet spend virtually no time with their own children?
BB...Huh? This is not intended in a mean way but if you don't like the advice given or the posters here why do you read and post?
Hi Beth! It's great to see you, Kiwi, and 2much. All we need are Luna and Larousse. And Todd, of course.
I have no problem with the concept of volunteering. On the contrary. It's the motivation that bothers me at times. Some causes are truly "worth it" while others just seem questionable. But I am surrounded by your examples in this little bubble of existence in which I find myself. I do believe that some people tend to be volunteers because it is the only way they can see value in themselves. That is what bothers me more than anything else. We each have value and the fact that we cannot recognize that within ourselves without external validation is just very sad.
Certainly we all appreciate the validation of others. If someone tells me I'm fat, that makes me unhappy while if they tell me I look good, that makes me feel good. Simple case. But what if someone does tell me I'm fat, can I still be satisfied with myself? I believe I can.
Actually WW and I POJA on occasion her volunteering. She is a helpful person but sometimes she is too helpful. For example, both of us have helped out and organized parties for DD2's class at various events this year. Well they left for vacation a week before school ended and DD2's class was to have a party the very last day. Teacher asked WW if she could help with the party. WW was frantic trying to figure out how she could get everything done, who she could enlist for help (since she wouldn't be here), how she would have the time etc. I said maybe she could consider letting someone else take care of it - a thought which had never crossed her mind. We made an agreement. She would ask the teacher to move the party forward. If so, WW would do the party. If not, WW would leave it alone. WW didn't do the party. Besides, her volunteer work always costs me money since she invariably goes way over budget. She does do great parties though.
For me, I guess maybe I draw the line at volunteering for people who need help rather than people who just want help. For WW, I think she does it partly for her need for admiration. Even so, she is a very kind and giving person.
Okay so I need some help. WW has been away for two weeks now and I'm starting to get a little hungry. The cupboard is pretty bare. Does anyone have a recipe using water chestnuts, potato chips, maraschino cherries and bread & butter pickles? I've googled it but so far nothing.
Wait. Let me clarify. Does anyone have a recipe using NOTHING BUT water chestnuts, potato chips, maraschino cherries and bread & butter pickles?
Go to the store and buy a 12-14lb Butterball turkey. They're ever so easy to make [.5 hour at 325 degrees for every lb], and really good for you. It will also sustain you (turkey samiches, turkey dinners, etc.) until she returns.
Buy potatoes (to mash) and/or boxed stuffing to go with it. And, if you're like me, eat it with salsa instead of cranberries <gag>.
Okaaaay! So to answer your question, no, I have no recipes for the ingredients you have available. And if anyone does offer one, I strongly recommend you take some Malox and be in close proximity to the lu post-consumption.
Your Plan B <pun intended> should be to call the Pizza delivery dude. But that is really bad for your health, although undeniably nummers.
I'm still on the mission to lose 4.3cm. Pizza is off the table. Although since pork is not allowed here, pizzas are not nearly as tempting as they are in the USA. I have been thinking about calling Pizza Hut and having them meet me at the Hertz pick up counter in Houston with an extra large thin and crispy pork sausage and mushroom pizza. I've been dreaming about that pizza for a year. I wonder if they deliver to IAH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
BUT, in honor of your craving and because I feel great empathy for your plight, I'm ordering a large thin and crispy sausage and mushroom pizza right now.
Pleaaassse don't order up all the thin crust pork sausage and mushroom pizzas in the next three weeks. Pizza Hut might run out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Pork is not technically allowed in any Muslim country but there must be an animal called a burrowing pig because we have underground pork in some of the more liberal states such as Bahrain, Dubai, Oman (in Muscat only and only at one outlet) and....well....that's about it I guess. So more adventerous people drive to Bahrain and try to smuggle it back to Saudi Arabia. Some don't get caught. Some do. Those who get caught have their pork tossed over the side into the water to get rid of it as quickly as possible. Now what I guess they haven't thought about is that fish will eat that pork and then they eat the fish - which would still be a sin.
Sorry to interrupt the stimulating pork conversation. At least you're not craving Domino's Pizza, Pio.
Volunteering is a fabulous thing and I'm not against it and do it myself. My question was about those people who will volunteer for everything involving children in an effort to not spend time with their own. As an example, there is a woman in town with five children, maybe not all brats but all fairly high strung and demanding. She is at every event, on many committees, basically front and center for every effort on behalf on kids. At one choral event I pull up to the school to do my bit for volunteering and her youngest is climbing all over the school, looking in windows, shrieking trying to draw attention to himself, while she is blissfully unaware inside selling cupcakes. The people who use volunteering as a way to get away from home and their children yet look involved are the ones I speak of here. Surely you wife is nothing like that.
I wonder if the starving people of the region go diving at night for pork products.
No WW is not like that. More often than not she will volunteer for events that involve the DDs. For example, she will be homeroom mom for one or both. She will assist on field trips for their classes. I can't imagine her ever volunteering for something for children that did not involve one of the DDs. I do know what you are talking about though. I have seen parents like that too.
We also have examples here of people that join EVERYTHING. One family, for example, does soccer, girl scouts, art class, balet, piano, swimming, softball, gymnastics and possibly ice hockey and they volunteer in the school. Their kids are a real mess. So are the parents.
What pork we can get in the region costs about $10/lb. Some smart marine salvage company could make a fortune - probably more than those Spanish coins recently recovered - and nobody claiming ownership!
Oddly enough, I sent WW an email yesterday telling her how much I really missed her and how I wished I could be with her. For some unexplained reason, that seems to have snapped me out of my depression.
On a different subject, I have a new theory. I ride my motorcycle to work every morning and I notice that it is always a little coolish feeling when I leave the house and ride through my neighborhood. But then when I turn the corner and ride up the golf course road, it is noticeably hotter - probably 10 degrees hotter. This happens every single day. Then it occurred to me. In my neighborhood, there is a lot of grass and trees. It is very green. On the other hand, the golf course road is where the desert begins. So I have decided that the reason that the desert is so hot is because the Arabs never planted any grass or trees. So it is their own fault that the desert is so hot.
I have been thinking about calling Pizza Hut and having them meet me at the Hertz pick up counter in Houston with an extra large thin and crispy pork sausage and mushroom pizza.
Too funny. Some friends of mine lived on Montserrat prior to the volcano exploding and destroying the island. On their first trip back to the States they loaded 2 huge grocery bags full of McDonalds and held them in their laps on the flight back home. I guess goat burgers weren't quite doing it for them, cravingwise.
I tried calling Pizza Hut. At first they told me that, according to their caller ID, Saudi Arabia wasn't in their delivery area. Then when I explained that I wanted the pizza delivered to the Hertz pickup lot in IAH, they rather impolitely told me they don't take phone orders three weeks in advance.
The other thing I will have to do is stop at Walmart on the way to my sister's house and get a fresh loaf of Pan Bimbo. If you've ever had Pan Bimbo, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Nothing like it in the world.
Of course, with all those carbs, I'll likely need to run a marathon.
Then when I explained that I wanted the pizza delivered to the Hertz pickup lot in IAH, they rather impolitely told me they don't take phone orders three weeks in advance.
They probably needed more time.
You should have been more flexible and worked with their need for a longer notice.
That's why you're going to end up having to settle on that Pan Bambi thing.
I was making a very lame play on words. Sheesh, you don't need to get your knickers in a knot over it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ever tried painting with latex in the sun when it's 125F outside? Paint powder comes off the brush as it hits the wood. Everything was going great until I discovered that the house is out of square. I'll finish my privacy fence tomorrow in the "cooler" weather. Right now I'm seriously dehydrated.
I did want to thank Resilient and BigK for kicking me in the butt. I do feel much better.
Before WW left for her trip, she want to get a new carry-on bag. Guess has a new model here that she really liked. Personally I don’t like nice luggage and I was not excited about getting it but she is a woman after all and they just see things differently. So we got the bag the day before her trip.
I saw on the DHL web site that the package had been received in BIL’s office on Friday noon. It was only then I realized that he had me send it to the office in the city where his company would then deliver it to his office which is in a smaller town nearby. He usually works on Saturday so I assumed he would get it on Saturday. What I did not know until later was that he had been away on a course and did not return home until Sunday. He sent me an email telling me he would get it on Monday and give it to WW on Monday night. He normally gets in from work at about 8:00 PM.
Our vacation plans have me going to the USA next week and then on to Mexico the following week. After time in Cancun, WW and I were going to travel to the USA to look for a house. Since WW had her green card stolen, that left very little time for her to get a “travel letter” from the US Embassy that would allow her to go to the USA.
I’m not sure if I have mentioned this before but WW and I had a long talk about the green card last month and we agreed it was more trouble than it was worth so it was our plan (before the theft) to travel to the USA, go to immigration, turn in the green card, get a temporary visa (INS is willing to do that) and then never worry about the green card again until we decided to move to the USA permanently (which is not certain that we will do anyway).
So WW decided to travel to D.F. this week because the Embassy processes these travel letters only on Mondays and Thursdays. To save money and because of logistical problems getting to an airport, she decided to take the bus (about 12 hours) to D.F., spend Sunday night at a hotel near the Embassy and show up early Monday morning, get the letter and take the bus back Monday night which puts her back at SIL’s on my Tuesday evening. So when WW calls me at 3:00 AM on Tuesday morning, I know something is wrong.
WW did take the bus. The bus had a wreck with a tractor trailer about 6 hours into the journey. Nobody was hurt. The driver controlled the bus to a stop but it was impossible to continue on with that bus. So the company sent out another bus. They boarded the new bus and continued on. When WW got off the bus in D.F., her bag was nowhere to be found and yes, unfortunately, she had put all her paperwork she needed for the Embassy in that bag. The bus company checked everywhere for the bag. Long story short is we will never see that bag again (this is what the bus company told her). So she was in D.F. with no bag, no purpose since the paperwork was stolen and she decided to go back to SIL’s. She went to the airport to buy a ticket to fly back but there were no seats available. So she went to the hotel, spent the night and then flew back the next day (Monday). So she gets back to the house Monday evening and calls me. She is totally distraught and crying.
As she is explaining everything, she goes in chronological order so it takes a lot of effort to find out whether she was hurt or not. Fortunately there is no physical damage. She will make a few more efforts to try to locate her bag but I told her to forget about it. It’s nothing we can’t replace. She did have one of her favorite pairs of jeans in that bag which is unfortunate. So this stolen green card is now becoming quite expensive too. It has directly or indirectly cost almost $2000 and we are no closer than when we started. WW now wants to come back here but won’t because the DDs are so excited about going to Cancun. As WW is telling me about all this she says she is just waiting for the dog to come over and pee on her leg because that is about the only thing left that hasn’t yet happened.
So while we are on the phone talking about all this, BIL walked in and gave her the package. So I do know that she got it. There is a downside. As is so typical of ignorant customs people, when they opened the box to check the contents, they put a stray pen mark on the back of the pocketbook. That upsets me because even the one good thing about her day is marred. But she did get it and she says it is beautiful. She got her note and the photos and DD1 got her GBA battery.
So now I need to contact INS to see what our options are. I have to cancel her flight reservation to the USA and see how much it will cost me to change mine or if I need to buy a new ticket. I also have to cancel the hot air balloon trip I booked. All I need is for my car to break down, set all this to music and I think I have a Country & Western hit on my hands.
Because I don't feel like a FBS. I still have serious trust issues.
Pio...Ever consider asking her to take a polygraph? Personally I'd welcome the opportunity to take one just to make certain that Mr. W knows how honest I've been and how trustworthy that I am now...He doesn't require one, but I guess knowing that I'm absolutely willing is enough...I've offered to have a GPS put on my car...I'd have no problem with a keylogger on my computer...Have you and Gemela ever discussed those things? It might help...
I'm fully aware that it is my issue. That's why I don't bring it up with WW. It still goes back to lack of remorse but I am trying to work through it. It isn't easy and I always said trust would be the last thing to be restored so I've never been in that much of a hurry.
We don't have lie-detectors here. What we do have is a man who sits you in a dark room and interrogates you while burning you with cigarettes and applying electric shocks. Hard to say if she would be telling the truth or not. People generally say whatever the police want them to say.
I have a personal issue with asking her to take a lie-detector test. Probably similar to the issue Mr. W has with it I'm guessing.
I have a personal issue with asking her to take a lie-detector test. Probably similar to the issue Mr. W has with it I'm guessing.
Doubt it's the same issue Pio...Mr. W has never asked me to take one, I have volunteered...He doesn't feel it's necessary and he would NEVER pay for something that he feels is unnecessary...I know that he trusts me...I've given him every reason to...We share EVERYTHING now...
Somehow from your posts I get the impression that you and Gemela don't communicate about your issues of trust...I could be wrong about that...I just think you should TELL her your feelings...Good, bad or ugly...That is INTIMACY...warts and all...
Actually it has occurred to me to share my feelings on the subject of trust. I don't think right now is the best time. Maybe after Cancun.
I will confess that with xGF reporting that PB was living in Mexico, I did have thoughts of WW seeing him in D.F. even though I doubt he is actually living there. I just feel bad for having these thoughts anyway and then compound it with her getting into an accident in the bus. My self-esteem is a bit low this morning.
The question is how much do I burden her with what I perceive to be my problem? I don't have this answer.
The question is how much do I burden her with what I perceive to be my problem? I don't have this answer.
Pio...
I'm sorry that you are feeling low right now...I can certainly understand how the two of you being apart for this long contributes to this...You know that the Harleys recommend that you don't spend even one night away from each other...I also understand that can be tough when her family lives abroad...My family is far away too...
Pio, your problems ARE her problems and vice versa...You are married...You are one...Share your thoughts and fears with her...Honestly, I don't believe I would have come to remorse in the time that I did without reading and posting on MB...Mr. W didn't have to ask because of that, but I believe he might have had to without it or it would have come MUCH later...It is okay to tell her you need the remorse Pio...And it is very normal for you to need it...Foggy thinking is a hard thing to shake without reading and learning, IMO...I test myself on it constantly and ask for input from Mr. W and other respected MB friends if I feel I'm not getting something and my perspective may need adjusting...I owe much of my humbleness about my affair to the forums here at MB...
Well here I was detaching myself. Wondering if she was calling OM. Maybe making arrangements to see him. The worst of paranoia.
She is there. Has one traumatic experience after another. And all she thinks about is wanting to come home to me or, when I go to Mexico, me staying there with her as long as I can.
So I'm feeling very humbled at the moment.
There is also the rather obvious point that I haven't mentioned. And that makes me feel good. But I won't mention it because I prefer to wallow in my self-pity.
Hey I've been feeling that way lately myself...The death of my dad coupled with gum surgery have had me in victim mode bigtime...I'm in the process of snapping out of it...I understand...
Mrs. Wondering, it's past your bedtime! Pio and BK--I think it's tomorrow already so you have an excuse to be up. And I'm at work and getting paid for my insomnia, so it doesn't count. Just wanted to say hi to everyone. It's been a long time.
Really you never were. NEVER insignificant, never.
At times it felt that way during this ordeal, and occasionally may still. And yes, you will be forever changed because of it. But what that means is entirely up to you. I have complete confidence you'll own that. Afterall, you're a pretty smart guy.
I think you and your wife are on your way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
If it makes you feel better to attack my character in a feeble attempt to rationalize your own hypocrisy, feel free. I really hadn't intended to post yesterday but I was shocked when I saw you, of all people, say that OPS had to be contacted. I simply can't believe you even bothered to post on that thread.
If it makes you feel better to attack my character in a feeble attempt to rationalize your own hypocrisy, feel free. I really hadn't intended to post yesterday but I was shocked when I saw you, of all people, say that OPS had to be contacted. I simply can't believe you even bothered to post on that thread.
I missed that too Pio. BTW - I like your new tagline too.
Well I'm headed to the airport myself. Now I hope my Vodafone SIM card works in Houston and I hope Pizza Hut delivers to the Hertz Gold Card pickup lot. Imagine if the pizza were waiting for me in the front seat? But wait - who would have paid for it?
better to attack my character in a feeble attempt to rationalize your own hypocrisy
Where is the hypocrisy in advising someone on MB to Expose thier spouse's A to the other person's spouse?
Please, I have something that came up over 1.5 years from Dday, and then you think that I am ? for not calling and having tea with OW H.
Sorry.
But I just wasted the better part of three hours trolling thru your thread.
Do I annoy you because, unlike your WW, I actually recommitted to my M?
Cuz, I don't get it.
Your in the same limbo now as you were a least a year ago.
So, can I call you out anytime you might advise someone to follow MB principles that you will have a happy M?
And you don't?
Although the A for your W appears to be over.
But your still about the same place.
You are humorous. Have an odd outlook on life. Actually have a personal history prior to age 18 that is similar to mine. Coach your kids sports team. Had to leave MB for a while, but came back.
So, in many ways we are alike.
So. You can jump on any thread where I advise a poster to use the MB principles to expose, and divert it from that to ask if I should be doing that.
Your choice.
I got properly bombed in Feb, and have dealt with it, in my M. You may not approve, but that's for you to deal with, not for me.
And no matter what, I will never be anything but *whatever* to you. And if it wasn't this issue, it would be another one for you.
And, guess what. I'm fine with that.
I have my scarlet letter.
I can show it to you anytime.
Critize me for what I may have done, but don't EVER attack me for advising posters to follow MB principles to break up A's.
And it is very hypocritical to offer advice you yourself have not followed.
That was my feeling also. Only in this case, for some reason, it made me quite angry. It reminded me of all those months I suspected gemela of an A and even confronted her a few times but got nothing but denials. So an OM who "comes clean" and then would nat have the balls to tell me what he had done with my wife is something I take issue with. And it is my issue. But to see a person like that tell another so adamantly that exposure was necessary is incredulous.
I'm not familiar with all LG's story. I do remember he posted something about his office with a view of the court house. I have a window in my office as well. I can see a mosque, the al, mujamma, the camp where I live and, if there are no sand storms, a glint of Half Moon Bay. I wonder which I would choose to highlight. Someone who's only thougt at looking out their window is of the court house must be a lawyer, an elected official or, God forbid, both.
LG is hiding behind the POJA on exposure to the husband of the woman he screwed for a few years. Not his problem I guess. Seems to be a lot of that going around.
I've only been here about 24 hours and no joy with the pizza. I did buy a load of ham steaks at Wally World and I'm trying to achieve saturation. I was successful in getting a Texas driving license today and the new tank for the Deuce is in a box in the living room. I just bought insurance and I will try to tag it tomorrow after my 11:00AM LAUPing. Then I will ride it over to the guy who will replace the tank. It will take him about a day so I should have a repaired Harley next week. I've been on the phone all day and I'm a little stressed out. This is definitely not a vacation for the scrapbook. I also found out I have to pay sales tax on the Harley when I tag it. I have been playing with my Bowflex SelectTech dumbells. Those are hot. Still haven't made it to Home Depot yet.
Well an update of sorts. I just wasted the better part of a day since I didn't get lauped. All I can say is that a doctor's office in a strip mall doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Even so I waited over an hour after my appointed time. But since today was the only day I really had to tag the Harley, I decided to leave.
So I went to BIL's office to get the faxed insurance papers and then had to go back by the house to get my passport since it occurred to me that I no longer have any form of photo ID. I got to the tax office at 1:30 which was unfortunately just after the 40 people in line ahead of me. So an hour later I got to talk to someone who explained to me that I didn't have nearly enough documentation to tag the bike. Most of it I think I can get but the deal breaker is that they want a copy of the previous title. I told them that the UAE does not allow you to keep the title when exporting a bike (which is very true). I never had a photocopy of it because it never occurred to me that I would ever need it. How wrong I was. I also spent the better part of an hour explaining that the UAE was a country since neither the clerk nor her supervisor had ever heard of it. So I hung my head and walked away.
Now BIL is upset because he says he had this all worked out and had put together everything I needed. He is mad because all I want to do is walk in to the government office and give them a check for a few thousand dollars and they refuse to take it. He then told me that if nothing else works, I can pay a "facilitator" to get this all done for me. Hello? How come I didn't know about this before. Give me the guy's number! BIL refuses because he says it is a matter of principle. I reply that this is exactly how we get things done in the Middle East.
At least I finally got the bike insured in case the garage falls down on it.
Well I've been away for a while and I come back and find that many of you are still posting advice to people who don't want to hear it. This needs to stop. Please only post advice that people want to hear even if it is the wrong advice.
I also had to revisit the forum guidelines and now I understand why KiwiJ used "unnecessary blasphemy" on the giorgos update thread. It is apparently the only thing not banned by forum policy.
So if you have any harsh words for me, please do use unnecessary blasphemy so the mods won't edit it.
Well I've been away for a while and I come back and find that many of you are still posting advice to people who don't want to hear it. This needs to stop. Please only post advice that people want to hear even if it is the wrong advice.
And I see that thread got a lot more scrutiny. If unnecessary blasphemy is going to be edited by the mods, then the fourm guidelines need to be amended to clearly state that unnecessary blasphemy is not allowed. Otherwise how are we to know?
I was looking at another thread this morning because basically I am always fascinated by BigK's cat fights. Few do it as well as him. I will also say that even when I first registered with MB, I was shocked by the number of registered users. I guess it just goes to show how pervasive infidelity really is. Over the years I also noticed how few people there are that post advice here. Not really sure how to make that understood but I am trying to differentiate advisors from advisees and my feeling is that there are not that many advisors (at least as compared to 55K registered users). I also believe that there are many people still here by force of habit so I never included them in my "advisor" category. I am also still fascinated (dare I say gob-smacked?) of the significant number of posters who apparently have never experienced infidelity in their marriages and yet still post advice. (As I said before, I really think those posters are alter-egos of the Harley clan).
But I had stayed away for a while and then came back with an update and made a few other posts. Suddenly last week, the wheels fell off. I don't know what came over me but I was just about ready for the big D. So I asked myself what was different. Looking at it logically, I had to admit that gemela had done absolutely nothing wrong or even changed any behavior. She continues to be wonderful. My best guess is that it is just PTSD and I had flashbacks.
My point to all this is that I can understand how those who had recovered their marriage might not choose to remain around here for the long haul. I personally am not capable of talking about infidelity day in and day out without it taking its toll. So I'm sure others have discovered that as well - not all - many people seem to be able to handle this just fine. Great for them. You should learn from the past but not live in it. I think maybe I have another couple of years to go before I will truly be able to say it was all worth it. I am certainly not 100% sure of that today. But I do have that hope most of the time.
Everyone posts advice here for their own motives. Some motives are obvious and some are not. Regardless of those motives, the message is that MB can and sometimes does work. If we could all just follow the three-legged dog theory, it would be so much simpler. And at its fundamental core, MB is the three-legged dog. So the problem is not MB - the problem is us.
I'm not an advisor nor an advisee. I tend to just state what happened/is happening in my life.
It beats me why I keep coming back. I enjoy talking to the other side of the world. That's about it really. Sometimes I think "my" story might help, inform, give hope to someone else.
I joined Facebook recently where I talk to a lot of people I met on the "other" board. Infidelity never gets a mention. I just like talking to people. I am in a job which takes a lot of my time, the rest of the time is family time. The internet is my outlet.
There are a lot of times I've wished there was just a board where you could just talk when you get past the infidelity process. I think I've found that with Facebook.
I know the three legged dog is buried in TKO somewhere but I'm blowed if I'm trawling back through hundreds of posts to find it.
Actually there only a handful of people that I have attributed motives to for posting. The majority I don't give that much thought to. But there are those few...
Actually there only a handful of people that I have attributed motives to for posting. The majority I don't give that much thought to. But there are those few...
The TOS says we should not make derrogatory remarks toward any member. Then the TOS proxy filter takes the word moron (I changed to m o r o n - Ha! see if you catch that one!) and censors it without regard to context. I never said the poster was a moron. I said that waywards all think we BSs are morons. Different context entirely.
Back in maybe the 10th grade, I had a biology teacher who just didn't like me one bit (I know - good judge of character - I beat BigK to it!). One day I missed an exam because I was sick and I had to take a make-up exam. Up to that point I was top of my class but I didn't do very well on the make-up. I got a little angry because I believed that the exam had not covered the material we had learned.
I think the teacher taunted me in front of the class for my poor grade and I got mad and recommended that the teacher send me to the principal before I called him an i d i o t (using spaces just to be safe). He became indignant and sent me to the principal who called my mother to come for a meeting. So the principal starts out by telling me that I am in serious trouble for calling the teacher an i d i o t. I corrected him and said very clearly that I had at no time called the man an i d i o t but that I might do so if he had not sent me to the principal.
The principal accepted my explanation and agreed that I had not, in fact, called the man an i d i o t so I was no longer in serious trouble. My mother was looking at my exam paper that had created this problem and said to the principal "Excuse me but I don't think this first question on the doppler effect or the question about free fall motion or the one about thermodynamics have anything to do with biology. Whay are they on a biology exam?".
I got the rest of the day off.
The biology teacher got sent to the principal's office where he was in serious trouble.
m o r o n = moron i d i o t = idiot d o l t = dolt w a n k e r = [censored] n i n c o m p o o p = nincompoop d u n c e = dunce i m b e c i l e = imbecile c r e t i n = cretin b l o c k h e a d = blockhead d u m m y = dummy a n k l e - b i t e r = ankle-biter d o d o = dodo p r a t t = pratt b o o b y = booby
I think 'varmint' is allowed. Therefore, you can call ML that....the bigger question is 'MAY' you do so. And, if you should do so, is it a respectful, kind, and appropriate choice.
I for one just want to take a moment and congratulate you on what is probably the most outstanding achievement of your life.
(what does that REALLY say?)
Great job on the posts!
Now you are +6000*
Note: asterisk indicates not really official post count since 2/3's of them were icons - and the same icon all the time to boot - not even a hint of creativity in icon selection - sheesh! Kind of like the modern home run records in baseball. The Babe is still the King! Everyone else is an asterisk.
I think it is shame. I went back a bit on the thread. The original bet was that she could not think of 42 insulting names for me without getting censored. By my count she only got 2 and a half (because "you are not the boss of me" doesn't really get a full count).
So not only could she not think of the 42 uncensored names, she never came close.
And I will give her benefit of the Spanish insults even though the software cannot trap them just because she spelled them correctly. (Partial credit).
I think it is shame. I went back a bit on the thread. The original bet was that she could not think of 42 insulting names for me without getting censored. By my count she only got 2 and a half (because "you are not the boss of me" doesn't really get a full count).
So not only could she not think of the 42 uncensored names, she never came close.
And I will give her benefit of the Spanish insults even though the software cannot trap them just because she spelled them correctly. (Partial credit).
Nincompoop Cockamamie El Pobrecito Pendejo loco de la cabeza ----------------- = 5 (not 2.5)
To be accurate, I didn't spell some of the Spanish ones correctly, but I still get full credit. Only because the Mods did not edit me. HA! They must all be white-breads.
A word of caution - nimrod is off the table - too close to ninny and I'm still looking at the entymology.
I forgot all about nimrod. I like that one.
9:07p - Yanno, I could just keep editing this post with new stuff to say and never increase my post count.
9:08p - I could make it my "post" blog.
9:10p - I think I'll wait till BigK shows before posting anymore. I was there when he transitioned to the 6K group. I think he wants to be here for it.
9:13p - Pio, if you IM with BigK maybe you could tell him he's holding up the show?
9:18p - "Though not clearly stated in the Bible, Nimrod has since ancient times traditionally been considered the creator of the Tower of Babel." And we all know how well that went.
Yanno, I could just keep editing this post with new stuff to say and never increase my post count.
And the forum software of a few years ago would have kept bumping to the top of page one. The current software version would just let it get buried and nobody would ever get to appreciate those gems.
Okay I'm looking at the entymology of "nimrod" and having trouble understanding it. So far all I can determine is that the origin has something to do with insects.
I can't tell if she is gone or not. She reverted to blogging yesterday and now, since your last post, you added a new page to my TKO so I can no longer see the blog and quite frankly I'm just a tad too lazy to go back and look to see what she is up to. All those extra mouse clocks and all. Just exhausting.
Will this be a historic occasion or an historic occasion. I think it will be an historic occasion - assuming that is that Resilient can stay awake this time.
I'm working on trying to figure out why Resilient is waiting to get those three posts. I'm betting she is waiting for them to coincide with some significant event.
1) High tide 2) New Year's eve 3) The Maldives to sink under water 4) Next planetary alignment (Sept. 8th, 2040 7:30PM - what time zone???) 5) Underworld phase change from liquid to solid 6) ?
Man I am fuming I am so angry. I was looking at the foxnews website and there is a big headline there "California to investigate M o r o n s". Why can't the government just leave us alone???
The sad part is that some of us can only dream of 8000 posts. It's always been my lifelong ambition to have 8000 posts. I wish it could be my epitaph - "Here lies Piojitos - Good Father, Husband and he had 8000 posts". A goal I can only dream of longingly knowing it is something I'll never achieve and Resilient flaunts it as something so trivial. I have to go now. I want to be alone with my pain.
Here is a small sample of the tax code. This is part of the code that deals with Alernative Minimum Tax.
TITLE 26, Subtitle A, CHAPTER 1, Subchapter A, PART VI, Sec. 59. STATUTE (a) Alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit For purposes of this part - (1) In general The alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit for any taxable year shall be the credit which would be determined under section 27(a) for such taxable year if - (A) the pre-credit tentative minimum tax were the tax against which such credit was taken for purposes of section 904 for the taxable year and all prior taxable years beginning after December 31, 1986, (B) section 904 were applied on the basis of alternative minimum taxable income instead of taxable income, and (C) the determination of whether any income is high-taxed income for purposes of section 904(d)(2) were made on the basis of the applicable rate specified in subparagraph (A)(i) or (B)(i) of section 55(b)(1) (whichever applies) in lieu of the highest rate of tax specified in section 1 or 11 (whichever applies). (2) Limitation to 90 percent of tax (A) In general The alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit for any taxable year shall not exceed the excess (if any) of - (i) the pre-credit tentative minimum tax for the taxable year, over (ii) 10 percent of the amount which would be the pre-credit tentative minimum tax without regard to the alternative tax net operating loss deduction and section 57(a)(2)(E). (B) Carryback and carryforward If the alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit exceeds the amount determined under subparagraph (A), such excess shall, for purposes of this part, be treated as an amount to which section 904(c) applies. (3) Pre-credit tentative minimum tax For purposes of this subsection, the term "pre-credit tentative minimum tax" means - (A) in the case of a taxpayer other than a corporation, the amount determined under the first sentence of section 55(b)(1)(A)(i), or (B) in the case of a corporation, the amount determined under section 55(b)(1)(B)(i). (4) Election to use simplified section 904 limitation (A) In general In determining the alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit for any taxable year to which an election under this paragraph applies - (i) subparagraph (B) of paragraph (1) shall not apply, and (ii) the limitation of section 904 shall be based on the proportion which - (I) the taxpayer's taxable income (as determined for purposes of the regular tax) from sources without the United States (but not in excess of the taxpayer's entire alternative minimum taxable income), bears to (II) the taxpayer's entire alternative minimum taxable income for the taxable year. (B) Election (i) In general An election under this paragraph may be made only for the taxpayer's first taxable year which begins after December 31, 1997, and for which the taxpayer claims an alternative minimum tax foreign tax credit. (ii) Election revocable only with consent An election under this paragraph, once made, shall apply to the taxable year for which made and all subsequent taxable years unless revoked with the consent of the Secretary. (b) Minimum tax not to apply to income eligible for credits under section 30A or 936 In the case of any corporation for which a credit is allowable for the taxable year under section 30A or 936, alternative minimum taxable income shall not include any income with respect to which a credit is determined under section 30A or 936. (c) Treatment of estates and trusts In the case of any estate or trust, the alternative minimum taxable income of such estate or trust and any beneficiary thereof shall be determined by applying part I of subchapter J with the adjustments provided in this part. (d) Apportionment of differently treated items in case of certain entities (1) In general The differently treated items for the taxable year shall be apportioned (in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Secretary) - (A) Regulated investment companies and real estate investment trusts In the case of a regulated investment company to which part I of subchapter M applies or a real estate investment company to which part II of subchapter M applies, between such company or trust and shareholders and holders of beneficial interest in such company or trust. (B) Common trust funds In the case of a common trust fund (as defined in section 584(a)), pro rata among the participants of such fund. (2) Differently treated items For purposes of this section, the term "differently treated item" means any item of tax preference or any other item which is treated differently for purposes of this part than for purposes of computing the regular tax. (e) Optional 10-year writeoff of certain tax preferences (1) In general For purposes of this title, any qualified expenditure to which an election under this paragraph applies shall be allowed as a deduction ratably over the 10-year period (3-year period in the case of circulation expenditures described in section 173) beginning with the taxable year in which such expenditure was made (or, in the case of a qualified expenditure described in paragraph (2)(C), over the 60-month period beginning with the month in which such expenditure was paid or incurred). (2) Qualified expenditure For purposes of this subsection, the term "qualified expenditure" means any amount which, but for an election under this subsection, would have been allowable as a deduction (determined without regard to section 291) for the taxable year in which paid or incurred under - (A) section 173 (relating to circulation expenditures), (B) section 174(a) (relating to research and experimental expenditures), (C) section 263(c) (relating to intangible drilling and development expenditures), (D) section 616(a) (relating to development expenditures), or (E) section 617(a) (relating to mining exploration expenditures). (3) Other sections not applicable Except as provided in this subsection, no deduction shall be allowed under any other section for any qualified expenditure to which an election under this subsection applies. (4) Election (A) In general An election may be made under paragraph (1) with respect to any portion of any qualified expenditure. (B) Revocable only with consent Any election under this subsection may be revoked only with the consent of the Secretary. (C) Partners and shareholders of S corporations In the case of a partnership, any election under paragraph (1) shall be made separately by each partner with respect to the partner's allocable share of any qualified expenditure. A similar rule shall apply in the case of an S corporation and its shareholders. (5) Dispositions (A) Application of section 1254 In the case of any disposition of property to which section 1254 applies (determined without regard to this section), any deduction under paragraph (1) with respect to amounts which are allocable to such property shall, for purposes of section 1254, be treated as a deduction allowable under section 263(c), 616(a), or 617(a), whichever is appropriate. (B) Application of section 617(d) In the case of any disposition of mining property to which section 617(d) applies (determined without regard to this subsection), any deduction under paragraph (1) with respect to amounts which are allocable to such property shall, for purposes of section 617(d), be treated as a deduction allowable under section 617(a). (6) Amounts to which election apply not treated as tax preference Any portion of any qualified expenditure to which an election under paragraph (1) applies shall not be treated as an item of tax preference under section 57(a) and section 56 shall not apply to such expenditure. (f) Coordination with section 291 Except as otherwise provided in this part, section 291 (relating to cutback of corporate preferences) shall apply before the application of this part. (g) Tax benefit rule The Secretary may prescribe regulations under which differently treated items shall be properly adjusted where the tax treatment giving rise to such items will not result in the reduction of the taxpayer's regular tax for the taxable year for which the item is taken into account or for any other taxable year. (h) Coordination with certain limitations The limitations of sections 704(d), 465, and 1366(d) (and such other provisions as may be specified in regulations) shall be applied for purposes of computing the alternative minimum taxable income of the taxpayer for the taxable year with the adjustments of sections 56, 57, and 58. (i) Special rule for amounts treated as tax preference For purposes of this subtitle (other than this part), any amount shall not fail to be treated as wholly exempt from tax imposed by this subtitle solely by reason of being included in alternative minimum taxable income. (j) Treatment of unearned income of minor children (1) In general In the case of a child to whom section 1(g) applies, the exemption amount for purposes of section 55 shall not exceed the sum of - (A) such child's earned income (as defined in section 911(d)(2)) for the taxable year, plus (B) $5,000. (2) Inflation adjustment In the case of any taxable year beginning in a calendar year after 1998, the dollar amount in paragraph (1)(B) shall be increased by an amount equal to the product of - (A) such dollar amount, and (B) the cost-of-living adjustment determined under section 1(f)(3) for the calendar year in which the taxable year begins, determined by substituting "1997" for "1992" in subparagraph (B) thereof. If any increase determined under the preceding sentence is not a multiple of $50, such increase shall be rounded to the nearest multiple of $50.
No I haven't gone back and reread the entire thread for a couple of reasons. First, I'm somewhat afraid to because I don't believe I am quite ready for that. I think there may be too many triggers still. I still hurt even today although not as much. Second, I'm afraid if I read all of ToddAC's poetry that I'll just fall in love all over again and I don't want to suffer withdrawal a second time.
I have quoted one of my favorite ToddAC posts though. This was vintage.
One of my biggest regrets is that I made larousse mad. You had no small hand in that BTW. But I still regret it.
Remember the crazy Mexican serial cheater woman who took such a personal interest in attacking me and tried to get me divorced?
I was looking back to November 2006 and I saw one of my posts where I really got hammered by Justuss. I wonder what it was that I said. I can't remember now.
Well, I guess a guy might want to both guard AND gird his loins. But I'm thinking lion girding might be a touch dangerous. He might decided to guard his OWN loins from your girding attempts, and then you'd be in a whole HEAP o' TROUBLE...
I had NO part in making Larousse mad. She loved me.
Seriously, or not as the case may be, we were like a big bickering family. I've been reading back. Geez, we were funny. Yeah, it all turned to custard at one stage (do you use that expression in the States) but I hope we're past that now.
What about the "poster" who thought you (Pio) hung the moon. Talk about embarrassing. Sheesh, it wasn't me if any newer posters are reading this.
Yeah, Todd. I know your EA was going to turn PA. That's how these things work out though.
FraidyCat (that was probably one of many names) thought you were intelligent and thought you "hung the moon"
2much was cool - a lovely lady. So was Nams. And Luna. Good grief, Steph, I wonder what happened to her. Booka, I think was the divorced guy. He's still around.
You would never, EVER want to mistake "girding" for "groping," at least not if you're dealing with a lion. With a loin it might work out OK under certain circumstances, but the girded lion might give his girder a girled loin... :MrEEk:
It is the middle of the night here.....I have been sitting here shopping for a new television. My 18 year old one has some issues. But, blast it....I can't fit a 32" tv into the shelving.....I only have 31 inch wide shelves....Custom built. Can't replace.
I forgot about FC. She wasn't around long because you all chased her off. Is she the one who was married to a doctor and had an EA or PA with the widower across the street but decided to stay in her loveless marriage for the rest of her life will secretly pining away for the neighbor? I really don't remember her.
Am I confused or was there some kind of communication between her and Stanley over on the TOW site or was that someone else?
I seem to remember she triggered the heck out of ToddAC.
Is she the one Stanley was emailing and texting in Italy while Myrta was left hiding out in a phone booth in the rain in Italy?
It hasn't been that long but it seems like a lifetime. What is it? Three years?
It is the middle of the night here.....I have been sitting here shopping for a new television. My 18 year old one has some issues. But, blast it....I can't fit a 32" tv into the shelving.....I only have 31 inch wide shelves....Custom built. Can't replace.
You're up later than I am, but I was busy trying to make Pio happy by getting the previous post about you off the page. So I posted about lions, loins, girding, and groping and the importance of keeping straight what was being done with whom lest some unfortunates loins get girled by a lion who didn't want girding. I WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP PIO!!!!
You can see how much good it did him. He got caught anyway and I stayed up late for nothing, trying to gird the loins of lions who preferred to be ungirded. It wasn't a roaring success. I'm off to bed, Miss ML. Hope your blood pressure has calmed down enough to let you sleep; if you have trouble in the AM, I have another video I can send you to jump start your day. You need only let me know what you want. Your wish, O Master, is my com... my desi... my definite possibility! Probably.
you can run, but you can't hide from Texas, you foreign devil!!
And Jen, it just so happens that my bedtime is 10:00pm and I did go to bed at that time, but got up to do a perimeter check with my Texas sawed off shotgun and happened to notice all you silly foreigners up in the middle of the night posting. AS USUAL. Just as you did all night last night on my Groping thread.
So it is clear to me that foreigners and left coasters do not have the good sense to go to bed at a decent hour and are once again posting all night. probably under the influence of hoochie weed or some such mind altering foolishness. The proof is in the pudding and you kids have been CAUGHT with your hands in the cookie jar...
happened to notice all you silly foreigners up in the middle of the night posting. AS USUAL. Just as you did all night last night on my Groping thread.
Quote
all you silly foreigners
Quote
foreigners and left coasters do not have the good sense to go to bed at a decent hour and are once again posting all night. probably under the influence of hoochie weed or some such mind altering foolishness.
FraidyCat (that was probably one of many names) thought you were intelligent and thought you "hung the moon"
2much was cool - a lovely lady. So was Nams. And Luna. Good grief, Steph, I wonder what happened to her. Booka, I think was the divorced guy. He's still around.
Why is it that all the intelligent, decent, good women went for Todd and I got the whack jobs? Just doesn't seem fair.
You should of seen his harem at the other site. He used to send me pictures and I can't remember how many women used to PM me asking about Todd. It was like high school.
I don't know why Booka rubbed me the wrong way the way he did. I guess I got tired of hearing about the "hot" realtor. Isn't he the guy who was sending his WW over to OM's house for nightly drinking parties while he quietly went to bed so he could get up the next morning and go to work?
I cannot go through the entire thread. Some incidents I have to avoid. The cell phone is a classic example. The fight over the cards and pictures is another.
But I did go back and look at the first page. Remember this is not my original thread. I had two or three others. But on page one of this thread I was about to separate from Gemela and planning for divorce.
What a difference 11,500 posts can make.
I am curious about what you found scary though. Care to enlighten?
I'm already gurding my lions BTW.
One thing that always perplexed me was how Myrta went so hot and cold. Ultimately I have to give her a lot of credit for my marriage. I do remember that much. But she could be really nasty sometimes. She had spunk. Gotta admire that. I know I set her off when I posted to Stanley about self-esteem issues. I still think I was right though.
Maybe I was wrong....who was the guy who posted on this thread whose wife had an affair and he had a lot of health problems? In retrospect, I don't think it was Todd.
AFAIK he is still tending bar on another web site. That site is blocked by my proxy server so I cannot see it. KiwiJ has all the lowdown on Todd. I won't post what I know because it is a TOS violation.
Well BigK, I'm not sure you missed much with that 8000th post. After days of anticipation and all the fanfare, it was something of a let down. Basically Resilient is just trying to get me in hock with ML. Almost worked too. I just had to lay low for a couple of days (it was my weelend so was not too hard) and wait it out because I know ML doesn't have an attention span of more than a few minutes coupled with a very bad memory.
OTOH, Resilient has raised the bar pretty high for you. Keep those icons coming.
Come to think of it, all these Aussies and Kiwis on the thread does shift the balance southward and that is not without danger. We all remember the "Yellow Peril". Now THAT was scary!
And KiwiJ, as far as the scary stuff goes. I can't for the life of me figure out why peopel come to MB and simply insist on posting about infidelity. If we're not careful, eventually this site is going to get a reputation for that kind of thing.
Yep, it sure is scary stuff when we mention the "I" word. It's also a bit of kiwi vernacular. "Scary stuff" can cover anything from a funny looking sandwich to a revolting murder. We are the masters (mistresses? perhaps not) of understatement. It's in our genes (jeans?) Kiwi humour is all based around understatement and sarcasm. (Hmmmm, great combination)
The Yellow Peril? My dad fought the Yellow Peril during WWII. It was a genuine threat for my and BigK's parents. The number of Aussies and Kiwis killed and tortured during that particular theatre of war is chilling. My English H finds it hard to believe we were under such a threat. To him, WWII means Germans.
No. The Yellow Peril occurred in the sixties. It happened when the Chinese ambassador was visiting the White House for an official state dinner and Lady Byrd Johnson accidentally spilled some sweet-and-sour sauce on him. The ambassador was infuriated and left and China suspended diplomatic relations with the USA. After a week of deliberations, the Chinese govt. demanded an apology and compensation of 100 million yen which, at that time based on the then current exchange rate, was equivalent to about $1.97. Well Johnson held emergency meetings with the cabinet and came to the decision to refuse the Chinese demands on both counts.
Then it escalated. The Chinese govt. said that, if the US did not capitulate, that on July 4th at exactly 12:00PM, every Chinese citizen would jump up at the same time and land and bounce the Earth out of its orbit killing everyone on the planet.
Johnson consulted with his science and military advisors and finally replied to the Chinese that, if the Chinese fulfilled their threat, that everyone in the US would, at that same time, run full speed eastward. This would speed up the rotation of the Earth so when the Chinese jumped up, they would all land in the ocean and drown. Fortunately this last threat worked and the US and China achieved detente.
Sadly the potential for peril still exists to this day and they even made more Chinese during the last 40 years to increase the risk.
Oh, THAT Yellow Peril. Have you ever read Robert Crumb's Fritz the Cat?
"every Chinese citizen would jump up at the same time and land and bounce the Earth out of its orbit killing everyone on the planet."
Are you suurrre you're not a Kiwi or an Aussie? That sort of yarn spinning (jeez, google it if you don't know what it is) is worthy of the best Kiwi and Aussie storytellers.
And I think that the understatement and sarcasm derives from your English ancestry from when England cleared out the prisons and shipped off all their criminals to Botany Bay.
I had an English friend who was trying to immigrate to Australia. During his interview for citizenship, the officer asked if he had a criminal record. My friend replied "I didn't know it was still a requirement".
LOL, it is a matter of GREAT pride to us that we were not settled by convicts. Sheesh, the Aussies are still as corrupt as all get out.
People who came here, my Great-Great Grandfather - the Irish side - came as a member of the Irish Constabulary. My Great-Great Grandfather - the English side - came as a 13 year old to make his fortune (and he did), another Great Grandfather (the Scottish side) came to escape the English.
Sorry but us Northerners can't put this pride issue between the Aussies and the Kiwis in any kind of context. To us, you are all the same. Looking at the world map, it's pretty obvious you both used to be one continent. Now Australia is a continent by itself and New Zealand is incontinent.
Sorry but us Northerners can't put this pride issue between the Aussies and the Kiwis in any kind of context. To us, you are all the same. Looking at the world map, it's pretty obvious you both used to be one continent. Now Australia is a continent by itself and New Zealand is incontinent.
Oh, ho ho ho, am I meant to laugh.
Yes, well, you Canadians from Arkansas, I can't tell you apart either.
That's as good as "Hotlanna" which I understand is the capital city of Georgia.
Look, I can't talk. I'll ask you for a "pin" when I want to write something down and I'll say there were "sex" of us there when there are six people in a group.
Lil????? Where are you Lil???? I need back up here.
Well here is an idea. On the one hand we have BigK who apparently cannot be offended and on the other hand we have Resilient who both loves a challenge and who wants to up the post count (to taunt BigK). I propose that Resilient try to offend BigK - WITHOUT A TOS VIOLATION - and see how far she gets.
I dunno. I was able to captured some of the [censored] with the trick you taught me. She can slug it out with the best of em.
But I'm referring to something much more subtle than that. If you strictly follow the TOS (and we all know you do - having never been censored and all), then any insult hurled your way is a violation. So the question is how can you offend without insulting? That's especially difficult without personal knowledge of the individual. I have one friend who is a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan(atic). All I would have to do is say something like "How about those longhorns? Best team in the country." That would be enough.
But how to offend an Aussie? I mean all we know about you is that you have some wallabies, koalas and the duck-billed platypus. Maybe some reference to how great the All Blacks are? How Australian cricketers look sissy in those strangely colored uniforms? I'm just not getting any connection.
Can I ask why the guys playing Australian Rules Football wear those shorts that they do? For the uninitiated, it looks rather...er...off a bit. I'm trying to be kind here but it just doesn't look right. The sport can't be televised in many countries as a result.
Can I ask why the guys playing Australian Rules Football wear those shorts that they do? For the uninitiated, it looks rather...er...off a bit. I'm trying to be kind here but it just doesn't look right. The sport can't be televised in many countries as a result.
Can't answer the question.
It's only played in Australia. It's a great game when you understand it - played on a ground about 3 times as big as any other brand of football.
I do understand the game. Basically you have two teams in really tight shorts which are probably made that tight to get the guys really angry (kind of like cinching up a bull at a rodeo) and they proceed to beat the bejezuz out of each other. Now there is a referee in a white coat and hat and, depending on how much pain is inflicted or blood let, he lowers either one arm or both arms with dramatic flare to indicate how many points he has awarded for that particular scrimmage.
I do understand the game. Basically you have two teams in really tight shorts which are probably made that tight to get the guys really angry (kind of like cinching up a bull at a rodeo) and they proceed to beat the bejezuz out of each other. Now there is a referee in a white coat and hat and, depending on how much pain is inflicted or blood let, he lowers either one arm or both arms with dramatic flare to indicate how many points he has awarded for that particular scrimmage.
I didn't go back and look, but I'm certain we're talkin Rugby. Yes?
Not sure what Aussie rules are but my oldest son played Rugby while in college. It was a club sport and not sactioned by anyone, buut I went to more than a few of his games.
An Ambulance at either end of the field, and no substtutions for an injured player. I just kept thinking, WTF?
Great experiance though. Just kinda confusing how they could beat the heck out of each other and then go to the local pub and concelebrate with each other. I guess thats where the magic lies.
I do understand the game. Basically you have two teams in really tight shorts which are probably made that tight to get the guys really angry (kind of like cinching up a bull at a rodeo) and they proceed to beat the bejezuz out of each other. Now there is a referee in a white coat and hat and, depending on how much pain is inflicted or blood let, he lowers either one arm or both arms with dramatic flare to indicate how many points he has awarded for that particular scrimmage.
I didn't go back and look, but I'm certain we're talkin Rugby. Yes?
This was Pio's little joke. It is a combination of rugby and cricket.
ETA and the only piece of correct information in it is that the players wear tight shorts.
The problem with that website is that the header says "Australian Culture" - that's an oxymoron.
Speaking of oxymorons, Pio got quoted by Pep on her notable posts thread. That's an oxymoron. Pio and Notable in the same sentence is also a conflict in terms (as well as good sense)
This thread is in danger of becoming informative - let's all unite to prevent that from happening.
It always HAS been informative. Where else could you have learnt about bread bag ties, peeing in the shower, Todd's interminable political rants, physics, the coreolis effect, what people smell like in Saudi, the mind numbingness of foggy WS's (oh, ok, that's everywhere on MB), Pio's (gobsmacking) knowledge about a great many things.
Wasn't there an ad where the All Blacks were about to play Scotland and the All Blacks did their "haka thing" while the Scots just looked on. When the All Blacks finished, the Scots in unison simply raised their kilts?
Quite possibly. We've just played Wales and the Welsh stood their ground after the Haka and just stared at the All Blacks. There was a Mexican stand off where no one moved and there was a lot of hostile staring. The ref had to step in to start the game.
It always HAS been informative. Where else could you have learnt about bread bag ties, peeing in the shower, Todd's interminable political rants, physics, the coreolis effect, what people smell like in Saudi, the mind numbingness of foggy WS's (oh, ok, that's everywhere on MB), Pio's (gobsmacking) knowledge about a great many things.
My personal favourite was Pio's rendition of how to avoid getting a traffic ticket in Mexico. A pity that gem has been buried.
Have I mentioned the search facility on MB sucks since the "upgrade"
I thought I posted that on another thread. I can't know for sure because the "database error is only visible to the administrator".
Getting a traffic ticket in Mexico (La Mordida)
The following accounts are true stories from my time in Mexico and can help save you some money in case you are "stopped" by the police. Now, being stopped by the police in Mexico is not actually very easy so, if it happens to you, you should already be embarrassed. The reason is that most Mexican traffic police do not actually have vehicles. They stand by the side of the street and flag you down. Now, if you don't stop, you are thinking that he will write down your license number and track you by computer. Rest assured that this would never happen - mainly because they either don't actually have computers or, to track you down, would require additional work with no compensation. So the trick here is "eye contact". If you avoid eye contact with the policeman, you can continue driving with no consequences. If, however, you happen to make eye contact, you must pull over. Failure to do so would be disrespectful and respect is very important in Mexico. If you are stopped, there are four directions you can take the conversation. I have personally tried three of them and all are equally good and effective.
The fourth option is to actually accept the ticket. Now, please understand that this is an option that neither you nor the policeman actually wants so both should work together to avoid it unless absolutely necessary. Accepting the ticket will not cost that much money but it will cost you one to two days in the police station and in court where you will suffer the additional indignation of being ridiculed for actually having gotten the ticket in the first place instead of opting for one of the other three options.
Option one - the bribe or "mordida". Once I was driving along in Villahermosa with my future wife (Gemela) and her sister and I was probably speeding although the policeman had no radar gun to support his case so technically it was his word against mine (advice - never argue with a Mexican policeman). I already knew to avoid eye contact but, what can I say, this man just had a "presence" about him. He was a magnet. I could not have avoided looking at him if I had tried. Oh well - damage done. I pull over. He walks up to the car and I roll down the window and he asks me for my license and tarjeta de circulación (registration). He makes a couple of notes and SLOWLY walks back to his motorcycle. Meanwhile, the three of us are in a panic and wondering what to do so we come to the consensus to try to offer him a mordida. My fiancée taps the horn to get his attention so he turns and comes back. Well Gemela says to him something like: "excuse me officer but isn't there some way we could resolve this situation which is an obvious misunderstanding" and reveals a 50 peso (5 U$D) note I had given her. He calmly says "double it". Well, I am thinking $10 dollars is not a bad way out of this so I pull out another 50 peso note and he says with slightly more emphasis "double it". Now I pull out a 100 peso note and he says "double it". Now I am starting to weigh the pluses and minuses of the bribe versus the actual ticket and am also starting to get a little perturbed at this guy's audacity but I now pull out a 200 peso note and hand it to Gemela and he is now becoming very angry and once again says "DOUBLE IT". Well, I am now out of money and also a little angry myself so I pull out my bank card and am about to say "here - take this to the cash machine. This is my PIN number. Take what you want" when he reaches in the car and takes the original 50 peso note and nothing else and folds (doubles) it so he can hide it, hands me back the license and registration and walks off. Obviously it was a language problem.
Option two - the language barrier: Another option to avoiding a ticket is the language barrier but does not always have predictable results - especially if, it turns out, that either he speaks English or you speak some Spanish. Remember that neither one of you actually wants to end this in a ticket and that usually won't happen if you both do your jobs. The problem is that it requires significant concentration to maintain the façade. If either one of you breaks down even for a second, the whole gambit is lost. It works like this: you start with "sorry officer but no habla español". This is bad grammar. It should have been "no hablo español" but you knew that - this is all part of the ploy. If you start conjugating your verbs correctly, it is your first sign of weakness and he will catch it. Once he does, he knows he has you and will try to "up" the negotiation. Now, if you hold fast and he cannot break you down, he MAY try to start speaking English because he doesn't want to let a fish off the line. If he does this, get a perplexed look on your face and say "WHAT?". Many Mexicans are embarrassed about their poor English so, rather than face further shame, he will give up at this point. If, however, his English is better than yours, it is now just a matter of negotiating price. You can get by with 50 pesos if you live there but if you are a tourist plan for something like 100 pesos. Trust me - he'll know the difference so don't haggle. If you have both been able to maintain your ignorance of the other's language and this is dragging on for an extended period, one ploy which I have successfully used on several occasions is to get out of your car, appear very agitated, throw down your keys and start to walk off. You won't get very far. The policeman will pick up your keys and motion you to get back in your car and just drive away. The LAST thing he wants to be stuck with is your car and you'll see why in option three.
Option three - be logical: I used to ride a Honda 1100cc motorcycle in Mexico. It was far bigger than any other motorcycle in the south of the country so mostly people left me alone. I never used to ride with a helmet which is strictly against the law in Mexico but is, as we all know, a safer way to ride because you have better visibility, better hearing and generally better awareness of all that is around you. Because Mexico has a helmet law but most people cannot afford helmets, it is not uncommon to see people riding around in hard hats or even imitation baseball batting helmets. Sometimes I used a "doo rag". I rode for years like this. Even the "federales" never bothered me and they are generally more strict. One day I got pulled over by two police in a patrol car. I got off the bike and they approached and asked me where my helmet was. I explained I did not have one. They countered that I had to have one because it was the law in Mexico. Flawed logic at best but I let it go. One of them even went back to the car and brought back the book of ordinances and showed me that it said so in the book. He said that helmets were necessary to prevent injury. I told him that, if I had an accident, one less "gringo" would actually be an improvement. He had no argument there so realized I had him trapped so he goes back to the book again and asks me for my license. At this point I am oozing with confidence so I give him my license and registration. He looks at it and says "no - I mean your motorcycle license". Uh-oh. "What motorcycle license?" I ask and he says that, in Mexico, you need a special license for a motorcycle. I told him that this was the only license I had and knew nothing of a "motorcycle" license. He then adds "and, by the way, this license expired two months ago". (This is not going as I was wanting). I got out my cell phone and called the office and asked the secretary to send a car for me. I start unpacking all my stuff from the saddlebags and hand the key to the officer. He says "what are you doing? Do you really want us to impound the bike?". I told him I was in violation of several ordinances and I would just have to sort it out later and that I had to be at work right then. He said that I needed to follow him to the impound yard and get a receipt for the motorcycle and then I could go to work. I explained that a) I had no helmet b) had no motorcycle license and c) had no valid license at all so I could not possibly drive the bike to the impound yard - he would have to do it. He said that if he were to drive it and any damage occurred that he would be liable and I could sue him (he needed lessons in negotiation). I said that was his problem so he had better be extra careful with the motorcycle and not damage it. Poor guy. He was really frustrated. Things were not going his way. He finally handed me back my license and registration and said "I am giving you back your license so you will just......GO" but that I had better go buy a helmet. I got on my bike, left and never bought a helmet. I have to admit I think I got a little lucky here but I took a position of weakness and made it into a position of strength and got away with it.
Note: the above-mentioned price ranges apply to the "locales". If you get stopped by the "federales", the price is more in the 200 to 500 peso range depending on the infraction. Just remember - they don't want your vehicle either.
I thought I posted that on another thread. I can't know for sure because the "database error is only visible to the administrator".
Getting a traffic ticket in Mexico (La Mordida)
The following accounts are true stories from my time in Mexico and can help save you some money in case you are "stopped" by the police. Now, being stopped by the police in Mexico is not actually very easy so, if it happens to you, you should already be embarrassed. The reason is that most Mexican traffic police do not actually have vehicles. They stand by the side of the street and flag you down. Now, if you don't stop, you are thinking that he will write down your license number and track you by computer. Rest assured that this would never happen - mainly because they either don't actually have computers or, to track you down, would require additional work with no compensation. So the trick here is "eye contact". If you avoid eye contact with the policeman, you can continue driving with no consequences. If, however, you happen to make eye contact, you must pull over. Failure to do so would be disrespectful and respect is very important in Mexico. If you are stopped, there are four directions you can take the conversation. I have personally tried three of them and all are equally good and effective.
The fourth option is to actually accept the ticket. Now, please understand that this is an option that neither you nor the policeman actually wants so both should work together to avoid it unless absolutely necessary. Accepting the ticket will not cost that much money but it will cost you one to two days in the police station and in court where you will suffer the additional indignation of being ridiculed for actually having gotten the ticket in the first place instead of opting for one of the other three options.
Option one - the bribe or "mordida". Once I was driving along in Villahermosa with my future wife (Gemela) and her sister and I was probably speeding although the policeman had no radar gun to support his case so technically it was his word against mine (advice - never argue with a Mexican policeman). I already knew to avoid eye contact but, what can I say, this man just had a "presence" about him. He was a magnet. I could not have avoided looking at him if I had tried. Oh well - damage done. I pull over. He walks up to the car and I roll down the window and he asks me for my license and tarjeta de circulación (registration). He makes a couple of notes and SLOWLY walks back to his motorcycle. Meanwhile, the three of us are in a panic and wondering what to do so we come to the consensus to try to offer him a mordida. My fiancée taps the horn to get his attention so he turns and comes back. Well Gemela says to him something like: "excuse me officer but isn't there some way we could resolve this situation which is an obvious misunderstanding" and reveals a 50 peso (5 U$D) note I had given her. He calmly says "double it". Well, I am thinking $10 dollars is not a bad way out of this so I pull out another 50 peso note and he says with slightly more emphasis "double it". Now I pull out a 100 peso note and he says "double it". Now I am starting to weigh the pluses and minuses of the bribe versus the actual ticket and am also starting to get a little perturbed at this guy's audacity but I now pull out a 200 peso note and hand it to Gemela and he is now becoming very angry and once again says "DOUBLE IT". Well, I am now out of money and also a little angry myself so I pull out my bank card and am about to say "here - take this to the cash machine. This is my PIN number. Take what you want" when he reaches in the car and takes the original 50 peso note and nothing else and folds (doubles) it so he can hide it, hands me back the license and registration and walks off. Obviously it was a language problem.
Option two - the language barrier: Another option to avoiding a ticket is the language barrier but does not always have predictable results - especially if, it turns out, that either he speaks English or you speak some Spanish. Remember that neither one of you actually wants to end this in a ticket and that usually won't happen if you both do your jobs. The problem is that it requires significant concentration to maintain the façade. If either one of you breaks down even for a second, the whole gambit is lost. It works like this: you start with "sorry officer but no habla español". This is bad grammar. It should have been "no hablo español" but you knew that - this is all part of the ploy. If you start conjugating your verbs correctly, it is your first sign of weakness and he will catch it. Once he does, he knows he has you and will try to "up" the negotiation. Now, if you hold fast and he cannot break you down, he MAY try to start speaking English because he doesn't want to let a fish off the line. If he does this, get a perplexed look on your face and say "WHAT?". Many Mexicans are embarrassed about their poor English so, rather than face further shame, he will give up at this point. If, however, his English is better than yours, it is now just a matter of negotiating price. You can get by with 50 pesos if you live there but if you are a tourist plan for something like 100 pesos. Trust me - he'll know the difference so don't haggle. If you have both been able to maintain your ignorance of the other's language and this is dragging on for an extended period, one ploy which I have successfully used on several occasions is to get out of your car, appear very agitated, throw down your keys and start to walk off. You won't get very far. The policeman will pick up your keys and motion you to get back in your car and just drive away. The LAST thing he wants to be stuck with is your car and you'll see why in option three.
Option three - be logical: I used to ride a Honda 1100cc motorcycle in Mexico. It was far bigger than any other motorcycle in the south of the country so mostly people left me alone. I never used to ride with a helmet which is strictly against the law in Mexico but is, as we all know, a safer way to ride because you have better visibility, better hearing and generally better awareness of all that is around you. Because Mexico has a helmet law but most people cannot afford helmets, it is not uncommon to see people riding around in hard hats or even imitation baseball batting helmets. Sometimes I used a "doo rag". I rode for years like this. Even the "federales" never bothered me and they are generally more strict. One day I got pulled over by two police in a patrol car. I got off the bike and they approached and asked me where my helmet was. I explained I did not have one. They countered that I had to have one because it was the law in Mexico. Flawed logic at best but I let it go. One of them even went back to the car and brought back the book of ordinances and showed me that it said so in the book. He said that helmets were necessary to prevent injury. I told him that, if I had an accident, one less "gringo" would actually be an improvement. He had no argument there so realized I had him trapped so he goes back to the book again and asks me for my license. At this point I am oozing with confidence so I give him my license and registration. He looks at it and says "no - I mean your motorcycle license". Uh-oh. "What motorcycle license?" I ask and he says that, in Mexico, you need a special license for a motorcycle. I told him that this was the only license I had and knew nothing of a "motorcycle" license. He then adds "and, by the way, this license expired two months ago". (This is not going as I was wanting). I got out my cell phone and called the office and asked the secretary to send a car for me. I start unpacking all my stuff from the saddlebags and hand the key to the officer. He says "what are you doing? Do you really want us to impound the bike?". I told him I was in violation of several ordinances and I would just have to sort it out later and that I had to be at work right then. He said that I needed to follow him to the impound yard and get a receipt for the motorcycle and then I could go to work. I explained that a) I had no helmet b) had no motorcycle license and c) had no valid license at all so I could not possibly drive the bike to the impound yard - he would have to do it. He said that if he were to drive it and any damage occurred that he would be liable and I could sue him (he needed lessons in negotiation). I said that was his problem so he had better be extra careful with the motorcycle and not damage it. Poor guy. He was really frustrated. Things were not going his way. He finally handed me back my license and registration and said "I am giving you back your license so you will just......GO" but that I had better go buy a helmet. I got on my bike, left and never bought a helmet. I have to admit I think I got a little lucky here but I took a position of weakness and made it into a position of strength and got away with it.
Note: the above-mentioned price ranges apply to the "locales". If you get stopped by the "federales", the price is more in the 200 to 500 peso range depending on the infraction. Just remember - they don't want your vehicle either.
It's called the Haka and we love it too. It's a traditional Maori challenge. Very stirring.
Q. WHat is the sound you hear before every NZ sporting defeat? A> The haka.
And Austalia lost what to which country just recently???
I do believe you got your arses handed to you in cricket by us just yesterday. Lost the series 2-0 as I recall.
Okay that is just plain scary. How on Earth did anyone think to add THAT word to the list? IT'S NOT EVEN ENGLISH!!! ...well...not REAL English, that is...
OMG the ultimate insult. I think he's called me a blot on the world's escutcheon, a poor excuse for a human being, the world's most evil woman, lower than pond slime and THEN he insults me with a terrible insult.
lol, Mr W. I must have been in a bad place when I got so offended by you. It was only after being on SI for a while and realising that a "Fun and Games" place was better for threads like Idiotville and TKO that I saw what you were saying.
Having said that, hmmmmm, you didn't have to be QUITE so unpleasant about the whole thing.
The Idiots filled a need for a lot of people. There was a always a misconception on MB that waywards posted there. That couldn't be further from the truth. I always tried to get across to you how much MBing went on there. The middle of the night stuff when no one else was listening to someone in pain It was never exclusive. Everyone was welcome. I can understand it wasn't for everyone, a lot of the humour was very silly.
I am so aware of how deep the pain is for people here. It's when you realise that there is a place for friendship that you know you're healing. It's so important.
Jen, he sat here snickering the whole time that was going on...Mr. W is sooooooooo not a mean guy...that anyone might ever think that really makes me crack up! lol!
Jen, he sat here snickering the whole time that was going on...Mr. W is sooooooooo not a mean guy...that anyone might ever think that really makes me crack up! lol!
Jen, he sat here snickering the whole time that was going on...Mr. W is sooooooooo not a mean guy...that anyone might ever think that really makes me crack up! lol!
Mrs. W
See?
And I could "hear" him snickering...and really didn't take it badly.
I mean, anyone who forwards you a link to "gopher moat" can't be all bad!
Okay I have a small problem and could use some help. Every year for the "December holiday event" (we can't say the REAL word), I put up lights out front. The neighbor across the street does too and we are about the only ones in our immediate vicinity that do so. Of course, many neighbors are of another faith so naturally would not put up lights. Anyway, last year I really slam dunked the neighbor. She uses colored lights and I use only white rice lights. Last year I used about 30 sets of rice lights and had an amazing display.
This year she raised the bar a little bit and got even more colored lights and, on top of that, she put them up two weeks ago! Fine. She fired her bullet. I currently only have about 23 strands of rice lights and I turning over every stone to get more but they are hard to get here - especially in 120V. My plan is to put up about 50 or 60 strands of lights and, although my neighbor doesn't know it, I purchased a 16 channel light controller with synchronized music from animatedlighting.com. Neighbor lady's goin down! I'm gonna take her down to Chinatown! Er...excuse me....oh, yes....my problem....
I'm a little concerned about so many strands of lights. Before I put them on, I have to complete a rather complex mathematical model factoring in the amount of heat generated by rice lights, the rate of convective heat transfer as a function of atmospheric temperature, humidity and wind velocity (factoring in seasonal variations) and the auto-ignition temperature of cellulose. I’ve created the CFD model running on a bank of 16 dual core processors but need to match it to empirical data and, so far, I have significant error. Any ideas?
Okay I have a small problem and could use some help. Every year for the "December holiday event" (we can't say the REAL word), I put up lights out front......
This year she raised the bar a little bit and got even more colored lights and, on top of that, she put them up two weeks ago! Fine....My plan is to put up about 50 or 60 strands of lights and, although my neighbor doesn't know it, I purchased a 16 channel light controller with synchronized music from animatedlighting.com. Neighbor lady's goin down! ....
I’ve created the CFD model running on a bank of 16 dual core processors but need to match it to empirical data and, so far, I have significant error. Any ideas?
Hey BigK, yesterday I'd just finished calculating 160 student grade point averages and I'm also helping organise the wedding of the century (at least that's what I think it is if the planning is anything to go by ). I get a tad snappy and grumpy when I'm very tired.
Hey BigK, yesterday I'd just finished calculating 160 student grade point averages and I'm also helping organise the wedding of the century (at least that's what I think it is if the planning is anything to go by ). I get a tad snappy and grumpy when I'm very tired.
Speaking of the wedding, well not really, speaking of DD and her fiance....you all know that Rob is notorious for not wanting to go on holiday. He "wants" to go but always finds an excuse. The kids have told me they want to give him (and me, by extension) a week's accommodation in Fiji for Christmas and for his 60th birthday next year. All I have to do is find a date and pay for the airfares. They've sworn me to secrecy so that he won't find reasons they shouldn't do it and so they can present him with a done deal. I'm very uncomfortable keeping "secrets" from Rob. Is a "good" secret ok to keep?
BTW BigK you had a holiday in Fiji a while ago. Where did you stay? The kids thought Denerau would be nice?
We had a package to the Outrigger on the Lagoon and then Castaway Island (with a free helicopter transfer)
If we go back to Fiji again, I would spend the week at Castaway Island. Incredible time there. Small, intimate, great rooms and these insane fish that every afternoon got chased by bigger fish - the water just came alive and it sounded like an express train all the fish trying to escape.
Unbelievable memories! It was about 6 months after d-day too
ooooh, sounds lovely. We've been to Fiji quite a few times before but I think an island would be nice this time. It's going to be fun checking out the websites. Good prices on fares at the moment too. lol, I'll have to wait for the (unbelievably expensive) wedding to be over before I can afford air fares. Oh well, I guess I'll find the money somewhere.
The wedding is just SO exciting. I really can't wait. DD looked absolutely beautiful in her gown when I went with her to the fitting. It's being held on an island and we are spending the whole weekend just doing "wedding".
Wow. I just went back and read the first few pages (50 posts per page). Has anyone actually read this thread? I can't believe how much I've forgotten. Maybe that's a good thing.
Hey I understand that, due to global warming, the new president of the Maldives wants to move his country. I also read that, due to the global economic meltdown, Iceland may be for sale.
lol, yes you are right. Doesn't matter if they're boys or girls.
Did Pio say he was going on holiday? If so, have a good time Pio and Gemela and girls. How OLD are those girls now? Nearly pre-teen? Heh, heh, good luck with that.
I saw on National Geographic that somewhere in the country of Africa the women have their daughters' chests flattened so they won't get married and stay in school.
9 and 7. Oh, still really cute ages. They are the best ages. My kids were adorable at 9 and 7. Kids that age are wonderful. They still think their parents know everything, can fix everything and are the centre of their universe.
LOL, 17 and 15, not so cute. In fact, yuck, yuck, yuck. A 15 year old is God's little joke.
Now they are 30 (nearly 31) and 28 (sheesh, that can't be true - when did that happen) cute again.
Are any of you on Second Life? We are trying to make out a guest list and I can invite you. You have to promise though to not speak up when asked if anyone knows of a reason that we two can't be joined. Wait till you see her - my GF has an avatar that just won't quit!
Did you come across this news item? It seems to be true, as it has been reported in all the British press.
Have you all seen the character Vicki Pollard, from the British sketch show Little Britain? I'm not sure whether she appears in the US version of the show. Anyway, I can't help thinking that David Pollard must be her brother.
Real life is much stranger than fiction! New York Post
You know, looking back I can see now how GF and I thought we could keep these lives separate. We partitioned our hard disks to keep normal day to day data apart from the SL data. But I have a sweet tooth and, when she started sending my computer cookies, well....
But now this hurts me right to my dual core.
I've decided to go total NC. I've changed my email. I've moved to a different IP address. I may even reformat to try to erase this whole experience from my memory. Man this really bytes!
Now that I look back, I can see we were so different. I am Windows - GF is Mac - a real Tiger though.
Oops! an update: She just emailed me her avatar via a virtual friend and she has a big bulge in the tummy and she is saying all the little applets are mine!
Oh I forgot to mention that I got some really bad news yesterday. The neighbor lady across the street went to the USA to have some medical tests done and have her backed checked because she wasn't happy with the medical care she was receiving here. Her original plan was to be back here before Christmas but the doctor has said she needs three surgeries and now will not be coming back until late January. Her DDs are not going to see her for Christmas and they are living on tuna fish sandwiches because Pop can't fix anything else.
I'm sure your two daughters (and maybe your wife) are enjoying having such a festive assortment of lights in front of the house. Consider it a deposit in three love banks.
Not everyone agrees on everything. Therefore at least some of us are wrong.
Yet we all always believe we are right.
So this is either black or white.
Then what we do with that belief or to what extreme we take it follows a broad spectrum.
I differentiate the two.
If the person agrees with our POV, we aren't offended. If the person disagrees, we are offended.
I suspect many BS's at some point have similar views to Aphelion. Maybe they don't express them so they don't offend me if I believe differently.
I see people vehemently opposing Aphelion who have his same evangelistic fervor (two sides of the same coin) and yet since their belief is more in line with mine, no problem.
Not everyone agrees on everything. Therefore at least some of us are wrong.
That is faulty logic, Pio, and I didn't expect it from you. That's not a criticism, I'm just surprised.
Originally Posted by piojitos
Yet we all always believe we are right.
Do we? I always have an open mind.
Originally Posted by piojitos
If the person agrees with our POV, we aren't offended. If the person disagrees, we are offended.
Is "offended" the right word? I think if a person agrees with us we feel validated and if a person disagrees with us we feel compelled to put our side of the argument on why we see things the way we do. (lol, try working at a university where this is put into practice every single minute of every single hour of every single day)
See Pio - Aphelions words do not affect me in the slightest - I know my wife - and we are 3 years into real recovery. Unlike Aphelion, my wife actually loves me and shows it in all possible ways.
Nut - he sucks the hope out of new people - which really is my only motive in refuting him. As well as it is a slight on every FWS and FWW in particular on MB who start secondguessing themselves all over again.
There is also the FACT that on another site he posts sympathetically and compassionately to WW's etc - so why is MB the site of his crusade?
Ketchup is a thixotropic fluid. That means it has a lower viscosity when under shear and what THAT means is that it will indeed come out faster if you shake the bottle.
I personally find hitting the bottle from the side rather than the bottom to be more effective.
OK, I'll bite (but in a non-tasting sort of way). Where on earth did you find a recipe for THAT, or are you just making that up, metaphorically and/or literally?
Chocolate is a traditional addition to chilli con carne. I tell you, the taste of chilli and lime mixed with chocolate is out of this world delicious. There is a WONDERFUL chocolate maker here who makes chilli and lime chocolates, along with other WONDERFUL handmade chocolates. They are to DIE FOR. Each one is a taste sensation.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I guess I must not have been paying attention when THAT tradition was passed out. I've never heard of it before. Are you sure it isn't another-side-of-the-world tradition? And is it served with a side of curry gingerbread house?
Sounds to me like they are more to DIE FROM!! But I never have been a particularly adventurous eater. I found what I liked early on, and didn't branch too fat out in any direction. It's worked OK so far!!
Actually, that should have read "too far", but "fat" isn't that inaccurate either. I'd say "pleasingly plump" except that it doesn't please ME. On the plus side, at 60, a little extra pudge DOES fluff out a few of the wrinkles...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I guess I must not have been paying attention when THAT tradition was passed out. I've never heard of it before. Are you sure it isn't another-side-of-the-world tradition? And is it served with a side of curry gingerbread house?
Look. The issue was chocolate and chili - together. If the Mexicans choose to make it out of blind rodents...well...that's their business. It's still darn good! Heck even Walmart sells it now (at least the sauce).
Subject: Warning for Yankees WARNING Issued By The Southern Tourism Bureau To All Visiting Yankees
1) Don't order steak at the Waffle House. They serve breakfast 24 hours day, so let them cook something they know.
2) Don't laugh at southern peoples’ names. (Merleen, Bodie, Gertrude, Joe Boy, Sudie, Luther Ray, Tammy Ann, Mari Beth, Billy Bob etc.) These people have been known to whup a man's butt for less.
3) Don't order a bottle of pop or a can of soda. This can lead to a beating. Down south it’s called Coke. It don't make a darn whether it's Pepsi, 7-Up or whatever else; it’s a Coke.
4) Don't show allegiance to any college football team that isn't in the SEC. (Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, etc.) All the others are just a bunch of pansies that play teams like Wyoming.
5) Don't refer to Southerners as a bunch of hillbillies. We know our heritage. Most of us are more literate than you (e.g. Welty, Williams, Faulkner). We are also better educated and generally lots nicer. We have plenty of business sense (e.g. Fred Smith of Fed Ex, Turner Broadcasting, MCI Worldcom, MTV, Netscape). Naturally, we do sometimes have a small lapse in judgment (e.g. Clinton, Fordice, Duke). We don't care if you think we are dumb, because we will whup your butt.
6) We are fully aware of how high the humidity is, so shut the heck up, spend your money, and get the heck out of here.
7) Don't order wheat toast at Cracker Barrel. Everyone will instantly know that you're from Ohio. Eat your biscuits like God intended and don't put sugar on your grits.
8) Don't fake a southern accent. This will incite a riot.
9) Don't talk about how much better things are at home because we don't give a darn. If you don't like it here, take your butt home.
10) We don't play lacrosse, hockey, or any of those other sissy northern games. So don't come down here asking the score because we don't give a darn.
11) We know how to speak proper English. We talk this way because we want to and because we can. We don't care if you don't understand what we are saying. All other southerners do understand what we are saying and that's all that matters. Now, go home.
12) Last but not least. DO NOT come down here trying to tell us how to make Bar-B-Q. This will get your butt shot. You're lucky we let you come down here. Question our Bar-B-Q and go home in a pine box.
I post this in contention to KiwiJ's assertion that I had flawed logic.
HELLISH THERMODYNAMICS
The following is an actual question given in a University of Washington chemistry mid-term paper. The answer was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
Bonus Question: Is He11 exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant.
One student, however, wrote the following: "First, we need to know how the mass of He11 is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into He11 and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.
As for how many souls are entering He11, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to He11. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.
With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year, "...it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze."
The student received the only "A" given. (and rightly so)
Subject: Warning for Yankees WARNING Issued By The Southern Tourism Bureau To All Visiting Yankees
1) Don't order steak at the Waffle House. They serve breakfast 24 hours day, so let them cook something they know.
2) Don't laugh at southern peoples’ names. (Merleen, Bodie, Gertrude, Joe Boy, Sudie, Luther Ray, Tammy Ann, Mari Beth, Billy Bob etc.) These people have been known to whup a man's butt for less.
3) Don't order a bottle of pop or a can of soda. This can lead to a beating. Down south it’s called Coke. It don't make a darn whether it's Pepsi, 7-Up or whatever else; it’s a Coke.
4) Don't show allegiance to any college football team that isn't in the SEC. (Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, etc.) All the others are just a bunch of pansies that play teams like Wyoming.
5) Don't refer to Southerners as a bunch of hillbillies. We know our heritage. Most of us are more literate than you (e.g. Welty, Williams, Faulkner). We are also better educated and generally lots nicer. We have plenty of business sense (e.g. Fred Smith of Fed Ex, Turner Broadcasting, MCI Worldcom, MTV, Netscape). Naturally, we do sometimes have a small lapse in judgment (e.g. Clinton, Fordice, Duke). We don't care if you think we are dumb, because we will whup your butt.
6) We are fully aware of how high the humidity is, so shut the heck up, spend your money, and get the heck out of here.
7) Don't order wheat toast at Cracker Barrel. Everyone will instantly know that you're from Ohio. Eat your biscuits like God intended and don't put sugar on your grits.
8) Don't fake a southern accent. This will incite a riot.
9) Don't talk about how much better things are at home because we don't give a darn. If you don't like it here, take your butt home.
10) We don't play lacrosse, hockey, or any of those other sissy northern games. So don't come down here asking the score because we don't give a darn.
11) We know how to speak proper English. We talk this way because we want to and because we can. We don't care if you don't understand what we are saying. All other southerners do understand what we are saying and that's all that matters. Now, go home.
12) Last but not least. DO NOT come down here trying to tell us how to make Bar-B-Q. This will get your butt shot. You're lucky we let you come down here. Question our Bar-B-Q and go home in a pine box.
Yeahhhhhhh Buddy...YeeHaw!
Mrs. W <~~~A bonafide Georgia "G.R.I.T.S." (That's "Girl Raised In The South" for all you yankee carpetbagger types out there! )
12) Last but not least. DO NOT come down here trying to tell us how to make Bar-B-Q. This will get your butt shot. You're lucky we let you come down here. Question our Bar-B-Q and go home in a pine box.
I hope you don't mind my asking you this here. I have taken a great interest in your story and I admire your insights.
On krazy's thread today you wrote this:
" Whenever we BS's work tooth and nail to try to save the M after Dday, we have no way of looking into the future and seeing just exactly what it is we will be saving.
Although most of cannot see it at the time, most of us would agree in hindsight that the M will never be the same as it was before.
I did ask myself this question very early on - what if I get WW to stay but later decide I am the one who wants out? I struggled quite a bit with it.
I have to say that I have shared your thoughts. Recently in fact. But I have taken the view that my commitment to the recovered M is the same as my commitment to the original M - that it is a commitment.
So since my FWW has kept her part of the bargain and fulfilled her commitment in the recovered M, it would be wrong of me to not keep to my part of the bargain.
My FWW could have left at any time. She stayed because I asked her to. Now I am obligated - like it or hate it - I'm obligated."
Would you mind telling me more about the lines that I highlighted? Are you saying that you still have thoughts of leaving, and if so, do you know why?
I like working through problems that I have faced in my own recovery. I rarely have thoughts of leaving now, but I have had them a lot. I put these down to my many false recoveries; they have left me with a resentment that WH did not want his marriage badly enough to drop OW like a diseased hot potato as soon as I found out about the affair. Is that how you still feel sometimes?
I was thinking about how best to respond to this and decided I don’t think I can put together a coherent dialogue so, if you don’t mind, I think I’ll ramble a bit and see where it takes me. I want to try to see if I can dissect this a little.
Let me start off by saying that prior to Dday, the thought of divorce never once crossed my mind in 7 years of marriage. Let me also state that for almost every single day of those 7 years, I was totally in love with gemela – not every single day but certainly the vast majority. For some reason, I think those two statements are significant but maybe I don’t know why.
Learning of the A is certainly devastating and I won’t rehash the grief process. I think my story is documented well enough already. I think my two biggest problems at the moment are inability to completely trust and poor self-esteem.
First look at the basics: everything seems to be going great. I have no reason to believe gemela is having or is about to have an A. Go back 4 years and I felt the same way then. I was wrong. So, in theory anyway, there is nothing to prevent gemela from having another one. I have to believe she thoroughly enjoyed the last one so sometimes I wonder if she might not want to experience that high again. Now the reason I sometimes think that is because of trust issues. I think this is a vicious circle but my logic may be convoluted. So let’s just stop right here and pull this to its own context. Within this perspective, I believe thoughts of divorce are simply a defense mechanism – I’ll leave her before she “leaves” me. [note: leave = checking out of the marriage]
Obviously that is an irrational emotional response based in fear. Allowed to grow, it would likely be a self-fulfilling prophecy. So from a practical point-of-view, while I may occasionally entertain these thoughts (and I do), I generally dismiss them as quickly as they occur because I remind myself that, in this case, the problem is not gemela but rather me. I remind myself that if I don’t believe I am good enough to be gemela’s husband than I can hardly expect her to believe I am either. But here is the catch. As I give myself this adrenaline boost of self-esteem, I immediately distance myself emotionally from gemela. I get this overwhelming sense that I don’t need gemela (and truth be told I do not need her). It is during these brief moments of self-indulgence that my mind begins to wander and the thought of divorce becomes more palpable. I believe it is these thoughts that are more dangerous because I am the one mentally checking out of the marriage. Now although these thoughts seem to last an eternity, in reality they probably are gone in a few milliseconds. Okay let’s hold this thought process for a moment.
I have not been “in love” with gemela since Dday although I have no doubt that I love here. I would give my life for her without hesitation. But I just don’t have that feeling I used to have where my spine would tingle when she walked in a room. I miss that and I wonder if I will ever feel that again. Do I “need” to feel it again or do I just want to feel it again? Jury is out on that one. Most of the time I don’t believe I will feel it again so if the need is there, D may be the only option. (I’m not stating that as fact – I’m stating that it is how I FEEL, at times.)
Now I the two thoughts described in the previous two paragraphs converge at the same point in time, this is where I seriously entertain the idea of walking out the door, going to the airport, getting on the first plane to Thailand and disappearing off the face of the planet.
Okay enough about MEEEEEE!
Let me just shift gears completely. As I said before, prior to Dday, the thought of D never occurred to me. That is because, when I married gemela, I gave her my promise not to. I committed myself to the M till death.
I don’t dwell on divorce very often. After all, it is only running away from the problem. I think the more pervasive thought is “what if”. Knowing what I know now, maybe it would have been better to send her off to pool boy from day one. Maybe she would have been happier. I don’t know. That is not, however, what happened. I gave her the opportunity to return to the M and the family. Essentially I gave her my promise that I would still be her husband. Ultimately she did come back heart and soul because, in part, I gave her that safe place to land. I was true to my word. Just as I did on the wedding day, once again I made her a commitment that I would love and honor her. When I sometimes get the feeling that I want to renege on that offer, I tell myself that this is exactly why I cannot – because it is just a feeling. I recognize that the problem is not gemela – the problem is me. If I choose to ruin a marriage and a family based on my feelings, I’m doing exactly the same thing to gemela that she did to me. I’m only exacting revenge – but I’m the one who would likely be hurt the most (okay maybe not if I go to Thailand).
I can say I exactly share your thought of “….resentment that WH did not want his marriage badly enough….”. For me, it is more fundamental. While I think I may understand some of the dynamics of what led gemela down that path, it was her choice. I still don’t feel protected. Maybe I’ll never feel protected again. Obviously a wedding ring is no defense.
One thing I do know for a fact: if gemela ever does have another A, we won’t pass go, we won’t collect $200. We will be divorced in a heartbeat. I’ll never suffer through this again.
Okay I started out as a ramble and, during the process of writing this, I have been interrupted 4 times so I’m not really sure what I have said. Please pick this apart and find any faults you can. At the moment I need to go catch up on Desperate Housewives I just downloaded off iTunes.
Forgive my interjection here, as i know you don't welcome them from me, but I would like to offer a comment on your status.
I am in my marriage now in part because of my commitment ( like you) but mostly because overall my own and my family's lives benefit from me so being.
I am not in my marriage primarily because I love Squid, or for any romantic reason. I do love her, but not enough any more for me to suffer a bad daily life if I that is what it required.
She has been utterly unprepared to contribute what is required to recover our marriage to a romantic level, but our kids are thriving, we have a nice life and I get on well with Squid for the most part. A bit like we were before her affair in fact. Except now she has cheated on me.
I think it is BETTER that you are emotionally invested enough to fear another affair than to be like me. But don't walk in that fear. Its very tiring so to do.
Thanks for the insight. I have been reading some of your posts and I can see some parallels - maybe too many. As I was writing that post before, there was a word I was thinking of and trying to find a way to use it. Since I could not find a way without misrepresenting my intent, I left it out.
The word was apathy.
It came about from a conversation gemela and I had a couple of weeks ago when I asked her if she thought there was something strange about a couple (principally driven by the man) who seem to want us to play golf with them practically every day. My feeling (very possbily wrong) was that he was trying to get really close to her and she loving the attention, was allowing it even if subconsciouly. She calmly (and correctly) explained that I was being jealous without cause. I give her credit for how she handled that so please don't judge her harshly by my Cliff's Notes version. I think she doesn't want me to be jealous because she has a need for me to trust her.
The thing was this created a bigger problem. Let's go over the groundrules:
1) I cannot prevent her from having an A 2) if she wants to cheat, she will
So with that in mind, If I am not allowed to be jealous, my only alternatives are a) divorce or b) apathy which might (likely will) lead to divorce.
Pulling myself back from the brink of apathy is a dangerous game. It is actually what I fear most.
I feel like that movie "The Saint" where Elizabeth Shue is working on cold fusion but just can't quite get it. She has those four note cards that, if placed in the right order, will all work out.
It is hard to believe it took her so long because how many permutations are there with only four cards.
If I could just get all these thoughts in the right order.....
I apologise for asking you to reveal your secret feelings and then not getting back to you! I did not have internet access yesterday.
It took me a long time to get the gist of what you said, and I might still be misunderstanding it. Are you saying that
1. You sometimes want to divorce, although you have no reason to fear that an affair is in process, and
2. You made a comitment to stay in the marriage if gemela did the same, and so now you have no justification for leaving since she's kept her side of the bargain?
I struggled long and hard with this question of commitment after my H stopped seeing OW. After the euphoria wore off (of realising that he still loved and wanted to be with me, and that I had "saved" my marriage and my children would be secure), I suffered some degree of depression. The implications of the commitment I had made seemed unfair on me.
My commitment meant that even though I was feeling very unhappy with my marriage I had to stick with it because H was sticking to his side of the deal. In fact, it was not "win-win" for him either; he was suffering consequences from ending the affair. He not only stopped seeing OW, but to accomplish this he had to admit to his boss that his marriage was in trouble and refuse to travel ever again thus, no doubt, sparking rumours in the office and facing curious glances for weeks and months.
After months of forcing his employers to cope with his strange working arrangements, eventually he had to accept a demotion and pay cut and moved to a much less interesting post.
He was lucky to have a job at all; they needed only to look at his emails and international phone calls, paid for by them, and he could have been sacked on the spot. He has never complained about his humiliation and neither should he. However, he isn't happy in his job but he does it for me and the children and I have at times felt trapped into staying in the marriage because of his commitment.
Worse than that, at times I felt that I had made my real commitment to my son, who was between the ages of 9 and 11 when I suffered my worst "buyer's remorse". I thought at first that I was easily able to commit to staying for his sake; I would gladly die for my children if I need to and I could certainly stay with their father for their security. He had been a rotten father during the affair but he had given up the affair to recommit to them, and was becoming a good father again.
At worse, these feeling turned into resentment at feeling I was trapped by my son, and I resented him a lot. Why had I waited 7 years to have this child number 2? If he had been nearer my daughter's age I could plan to leave soon!
I grew out of that ridiculous way of thinking about my son, thank goodness.
I'm now very contented with the commitment I have made, mainly because I no longer think that I must honour it as long as H is faithful (and nice to live with). I no longer look at my agreement to stay, made about 2 years ago, as binding; I see it as something that I negotiate regularly on the balance of advantages to me and the children. I don't think that, given the length of his affair and the treatment of me and the children during the false recoveries, H is entitled to expect commitment from me. He chose to disregard and trample on my commitment over and over again, so mine is no longer the same commitment I made on my wedding day. I thought that it should be the same, for a while, but now I realise that it can never be.
In short, I cannot trust his commitment so I cannot give my own. I know that H is here with me and seems happy. I know that he does not travel any more. I know that he fought to be allowed to stay and bring up his children and that that privilege matters greatly to him. His reasons for staying with me, however, I can never know again.
He could be here because he felt too old to start again. It could be because OW was too nutty to live with; according to both him and her H (whom I spoke to, several times) she is charming and funny and refreshing, but a bit OCD and with tendencies towards depression. It could be because he did not dare take another man's wife away, and face his wrath and lose his own job in the process. Perhaps he did not fancy step-fatherhood. Certainly by the time he gave me my share of our assets and maintenance for the children, and by the time he or OW gave up one of their jobs so that they could both live in the same country, there would have been no money left to enjoy his new start. It could be that he loves me and that he is just the world's best cake-eater, but how can I ever know?
I've become very self-absorbed in this post, as I usually do. What I am trying to ask is whether we BSs really should feel trapped by the commitment we renewed once recovery started. Why shouldn't we divorce if we continue to be unhappy?
I know it's your thread, but I find Bob's input enlightening and I should like him and any one else to offer thoughts on this!
I get the feeling that Bob is swimming somewhere in these waters too.
I can see the logical flow of your argument but I think we differ in a couple of points. First, I have never expected life to be fair. In fact after reading the Bible, I believe this is one expectation God never offered us. So I don't tend to dwell on any bad hands I get dealt.
I guess where I struggle most is whether I now believe M to be a binding commitment. I certainly did once. Now gemela has shown me that isn't necessarily the case.
I don't believe I am stuck here now because gemela decided to stay in the M. I think the belief in commitment is the same as it has always been. When I first got married, I didn't bail because of a few bad times. I always stayed because of the commitment. That is still the case. The one difference is that now I no longer believe it is binding. That being the case, the question I have to ask myself is, if I'm not really happy, why do I stay?
OTOH, why am I unhappy? Is it A related? Could be but maybe not. Since I'm the only one who can make me happy, I cannot hold gemela liable for that. Will leaving gemela once and for all make me happy? I'm not convinced it would - at least not in the long term.
I guess what I hang on to is that I have to be true to myself - (whatever that means?). Regardless of what choices gemela has made in her life, i take responsibility for my choices very seriously. Am I the "better" person? That would never occur to me - poor self-esteem sees to that.
I also want to mention, as it might be relevant, that I have been very depressed since December 11th. Long story short is that I have torn either a cartilage or a tendon (or both) in my left wrist/hand depending on which doctor you believe. I had to endure five weeks of a GP telling me it was just tendonitis and that I would get better. When I complained loudly, he decided I had arthrtitis and sent me to a rheumotoligist who immediadtely walked me over to an orthopedic surgeon. I was able to get an MRI done on a cancellation and am only now seeing the sports medicine specialist who has decided I need surgery. What all this means is that I have been in nearly constant and sometimes excrutiating pain for just over three months and have almost zero use of my left hand. I'm not sure when he will be able to operate. My left arm has whithered and looks pathetic.
This has been a major blow to my lifestyle. I have played golf a couple of time one-handed and that has gone surprisingly well but our normal routine has been impacted. I am amazed at how much I cannot do. Simple things like unscrewing a garden hose are now impossible. I can't open a ketchup bottle if it is round. Painkillers don't seem to work. I just feel generally useless pretty much most of the time (which most of you probably think is merited). I'll try to write down the technical details this morning at PT because the acronyms confuse me.
I'm hoping to get the use of my hand back before I make any life-altering decisions.
Pio, I'm really sorry to hear that about your hand and arm. Of course it's going to affect your mood and make you depressed. Why would we think you "merit it". You're one of the good guys, why would anyone wish you harm?
Okay it looks like I am somewhere in the ECU (extensor carpi ulnaris) or, more recently, in the TFCC (triangular fibrocartilage complex). The surgeon seems to discount the ECU saying that whatever pain I have there is rediating from the tear in the TFCC. I'm not so convinced. When he does operate, I hope he looks at both. That might mean two holes. Don't know. Don't care either.
I have 22 degrees of wrist movement backward and 20 forward and a 6 KG grip strength (compared to 50 KG in the other hand). In case you ever wondered, the clutch handle resistance on a Honda Fireblade is right at 6 KG. I was immobilized for 11 weeks which has caused almost all loss of movement in the wrist and fingers. In addition to the original problem(s), I now have pain everywhere. My only thought is I want it to end.
Since I feel totally useless (can't even screw in a lightbulb), my self-esteem is in the cellar. I can tell that how I feel about myself correlates to how I feel about the M. That is why I'm posting this. It is something to be aware of.
I need ten more posts here. I've been on this page for almost three months. With my injury, now by the time I have scrollwheeled to the bottom of the page, I'm in agony. Sure wish I didn't have to scroll down so far.
One other thought had occurred to me over the weekend. Gemela was really stressed out about a birthday party/sleepover for DD2. Keep in mind this is stress she places entirely on herself. IMO she was very snippy for a couple of days. I know I'm not saying anything new but, when you're not "in love", you tend to be a lot less forgiving and certain things tend to get under your skin more. While I was already not in a great place, my perception of her attitude pushed me further away.
I have observed myself and MANY BHs well into recovery who respond to infirmity badly, with depression and frustration.
It is as though we define ourselves far more by our potency and capability than we have historically.
In my case, squid has always been extremely impatient of me when I have ailed. For example I hurt my wrist at the gym a few years ago, and Squid slated me hourly that I was making a fuss and was trying to get sympathy from her.
It still hurt badly so after a week I went to the hospital. Transpires it was badly broken and required surgery & a screw to fix.... so much for making a fuss.
In her mind a man must be John Wayne, impervious to pain and enfeeblement. Silent in endurance. Strong, ever-prevailing.
It is as though she becomes afraid when I am enfeebled in anyway and manifests this in denial.
Bizarre that she had an affair with a tiny man 14 years my senior then, whom I could destroy physically, but since when has the choice of affair partner been logical ?
So Pio, think on this when you get depressed by your injury. It is a primordial fear within men I think, particularly after being cuckolded. Let your intellect rise you above this.
There is that fear of the silverback that he may eventually lose the challenge.
I still remember gemela in her brief posting here exclaiming how pool boy was so strong. I've never forgotten that and have worked out consistently and added a lot of weight. This injury has been a major setback for me both physically and emotionally - primarily because it has been so long without any real progress.
I will say it makes me feel good when I can beat her at golf one-handed. Yesterday I ran her all over the court in tennis. Thank goodness Jimmy Conner was my role model (he had a one-handed backhand).
Gemela has been very supportive during this time. In a bizarre way, that may fuel the fire. I can see she recognizes this weakness. Apparently she likes strong better. So I do feel more susceptible to an A (hers) at the moment.
Bottom line is that if you don't feel good about yourself, you fear FWS may be thinking the same thing. then the thing starts to spiral downward. We can't always help what we feel.
So sorry to hear about your injury and subsequent depression...
Do you think Gemela has gotten to the point in recovery where she sees that the entire reason for her affair was poor boundaries and NOT unmet needs? To the point where she realizes that no matter if you NEVER met another need of hers that she would still never have an affair? Because that is where she needs to be...where EVERY married person needs to be...To understand that your commitment is not only to your spouse, but is really and truly an unbreakable convenant with God (well except for the BS who does have the right to get out of that convenant of course)...and obviously death breaks the covenant as well...
Mr. W and I were working out together the other day and talking about a couple that his parents know...The wife ended up in a coma for several years and eventually the husband began dating...*cringe*...Mr. W said to me, "If that ever happens to me, I wouldn't wish for you to be alone". (or something to that effect)...What I said was, "You must be kidding? I would NOT date." He continued telling me that he'd want me to be happy and on and on...But here's the thing, no matter what Mr. W wanted in that situation, what I've come to know is that my convenant is with God and I must NEVER, EVER violate that again...That even Mr. W doesn't have the right to tell me that I can violate that covenant...That God isn't really all that into what makes us "happy", rather He is much more concerned with our obedience to Him...
Sorry for the ramble, but I think that is where Gemela's mindset needs to get to if it hasn't...Not sure if you guys ever broach topics like that or not, but I think it's important - for both of you...I also think that wisdom was granted to me when I repented...So easy for me to see now that I feel like I was mentally challenged before by not being able to see stuff like this so clearly...
Anyway, just some thoughts...Hope you are feeling better soon...
pio, would you please forgive my threadjacking for a second:
Dear Mrs W, would you be able to pop into staytogether's thread in Recovery, please? She is the FWW but there is a problem with her H's depression, that might even be bi-polar. I think you might have had experience with a bi-polar relative. Am I building up the issue too much? I hope it's okay to ask you like this.
Do you think Gemela has gotten to the point in recovery where she sees that the entire reason for her affair was poor boundaries and NOT unmet needs? To the point where she realizes that no matter if you NEVER met another need of hers that she would still never have an affair? Because that is where she needs to be...where EVERY married person needs to be...To understand that your commitment is not only to your spouse, but is really and truly an unbreakable convenant with God (well except for the BS who does have the right to get out of that convenant of course)...and obviously death breaks the covenant as well...
must be a day for threadjacks....
MrsWondering, I just wanted to say that this is one of the best explainations I have read re. 'how do you know when WS's gets it'
Sure SugarCane, I'll check it out...Sometimes I am not the most effective person at dealing with Bipolar issues because, yes, you were right, my father had Bipolar disorder...I sometimes find myself less objective in those situations because of my experiences...
Do you think Gemela has gotten to the point in recovery where she sees that the entire reason for her affair was poor boundaries and NOT unmet needs? To the point where she realizes that no matter if you NEVER met another need of hers that she would still never have an affair? Because that is where she needs to be...where EVERY married person needs to be...To understand that your commitment is not only to your spouse, but is really and truly an unbreakable convenant with God (well except for the BS who does have the right to get out of that convenant of course)...and obviously death breaks the covenant as well...
must be a day for threadjacks....
MrsWondering, I just wanted to say that this is one of the best explainations I have read re. 'how do you know when WS's gets it'
Well at least Mrs. W got me over the page hurdle. Now I'm only two wheel clicks down to the last post - no pain at all.
Thanks for the book suggestion Bob. If it's on Amazon, I'll order it. If it is electronic, maybe I'll get a kindle 2 at the same time. I just needed an excuse.
To answer Mrs. W's question, gemela and I never have any conversations at all about the A. If I even broach the subject, she thinks I'm being jealous. I don't think she gets defensive because she is hiding something (I'm too well trained from experience to see that) but I think her defensiveness may be based in guilt. That is my better guess. In my mind, I have imagined she is in the place you describe so your observation is fascinating.
If I have to worry about her having an(other) A, then she is not the person I want to be with anyway so it has become somehow easy for me to not worry any more. The person I want to be with is the loving, faithful wife so that is how I view her. If that view does turn out to be wrong, I'll eventually find out one way or another. You can't keep secrets forever - and yes some day we will find out who really killed JFK.
I think her visit to the Holy See may have been a personal turning point. I think some of you have mentioned it before and maybe Myrta understood her best but I think a lot of this is cultural. She just needs to watch more Oprah (God forbid!).
While I think there are things she could have done much differently to help me through this, the fact that she hasn't may have made me a stronger person. In other words, I feel like I haven't needed her help to get through this (because she hasn't really offered it).
I'm trying very hard to be objective about gemela at the moment because I have to accept that my perception may be distorted by my own issues. It just continues to remind me how fragile we humans really are.
BTW if you are interested, I googled TFCC yesterday to try to learn more and I saw some pictures. I clicked on the prettiest picture and got
Now what is interesting about it is that this is exactly what I was doing when it happened - playing golf. The weird part is that I didn't hit anything when it happened. It happened on a tee shot and it popped during the down swing before I ever came close to the ball. The worst part is that I was two over par at the time and couldn't finish the round.
Okay the book was on Amazon for $4.99 so it is on the way. No electronic version so no Kindle 2 today. I should get the book about March 28th.
Amazon said customers who bought this also bought "Jiu Jitsu University", "Total MMA" and "Blood in the Cage". Hmmm....
LOL pio !
Its a study into WHY men in particular feel the need for combat when in our society it is somewhat anachronistic.
The author spends time studying with adherents of many forms of martial skill all over the world to try to explain his own need to compete as a "silverback".
I have not read those other amazon referenced books, but I can aver that Sam Sheridan's book is well written, non-hysterical and very interesting for a man trying to define his place IME.
In 1999, after a series of wildly adventurous jobs around the world, Sam Sheridan found himself in Australia, loaded with cash and intent on not working until he’d spent it all. It occurred to him that, without distractions, he could finally indulge a long-dormant obsession: fighting. Within a year, he was in Bangkok training with the greatest fighter in muay Thai (Thai kickboxing) history and stepping through the ropes for a professional bout. That one fight wasn’t enough. Sheridan set out to test himself on an epic journey into how and why we fight, facing Olympic boxers, Brazilian jiu-jitsu stars, and Ultimate Fighting champions. Along the way, Sheridan delivers an insightful look at violence as a career and a spectator sport, a behind-the-pageantry glimpse of athletes at the top of their terrifying game. An extraordinary combination of gonzo journalism and participatory sports writing, A Fighter’s Heart is a dizzying first-hand account of what it’s like to reach the peak of finely disciplined personal aggression, to hit—and be hit.
So apparently you and Amazon didn't read the same book.
Just FYI, if you go for the $11.90 version, you discover it IS available on Kindle 2. I guess they thought a cheapskate who would only be willing to pay $4.99 would not be too interested in a Kindle 2 either.
God designed men to be dangerous, says John Eldredge. Simply look at the dreams and desires written in the heart of every boy: To be a hero, to be a warrior, to live a life of adventure and risk. Sadly, most men abandon those dreams and desires--aided by a Christianity that feels like nothing more than pressure to be a nice guy. It is no wonder that many men avoid church, and those who go are often passive and bored to death. In this provocative book, Eldredge gives women a look inside the true heart of a man and gives men permission to be what God designed them to be--dangerous, passionate, alive, and free.
Yeah! I want to be dangerous, passionate, alive and free! Good call BigK! Oh! And there's a "field manual" too for only $12.23!!! Okay I know they have some used ones for only $2.69 but I'm betting those have some blood spatters on them. Yeech!
Pretty pricey though at $9.22. I dunno. Bob gives more economical advice.
They called him "the lost man." Raised in the woods, without speech, without civilization, he was beautifully, wonderfully wild. But only one woman looked beyond the wildness to see the man.
And one by Barry Gifford.
Quote
In the visual equivalent of sound bites, novelist and poet Gifford ( Ghosts No Horse Can Carry ; Port Tropique ) cuts to the heart with sharply focused shots of young lovers on the lam. "You mark me the deepest," says 20-year-old Lula Pace to Sailor Ripley as they're reunited after Sailor's two-year stint in prison for manslaughter. Though it means breaking parole for Sailor, the two leave North Carolina to escape Lula's fiercely disapproving mother Marietta, who hires a friend, short-story writing private eye Johnnie Farragut, to track them. Innocents on the road but wise to the needs of their hearts, Lula and Sailor tool along from Louisiana to Texas in a white '75 Bonneville convertible, and, when the money runs out, land in Big Tuna, where Sailor will run afoul of the law again. Sweet and foolish, pure but ordained to be defeated, Sailor and Lula represent a bittersweet ideal. A film of the novel, directed by David Lynch, is in the works.
Even at $2.69, I think I'll just wait for that movie to come out on Showtime. Hmmm. 1990? Maybe I already missed it.
Really a shame too because there was much insightful brilliance there. Unfortunately it was a database error only visible to forum administrators so only they can answer that question.
Pio, if you think that's "as it should be" and I'm sure you're not alone in thinking that, you have a long way to go still.
As it should be is how Rob and I are now. He didn't even see me as a "fallen woman". He just saw the girl he loved. I can't even begin to describe what our life is like now. It's a good life. It's a wonderful life (to coin a phrase). It's a wonderful life for both of us. It's a normal life. It's a life filled with laughter and love.
Technically under Sharia law, she would have been stoned to death. Here she gets 90 days which will be commuted to two and deported. When you choose to live in a country, you should abide by the laws of that country.
Just like the couple that got drunk and had [ahem] "relations" on the public beach. Their excuse was they didn't realize it was against the law. Is it legal in England and they just forgot to read the UAE tourist pamphlet?
So your mosquitoes like the alcohol content of B52's? You have quite sophisticated mosquitoes. For some reason I always thought they would go for mojitos. Don't know why really.
No, you are purposefully misunderstanding me. Our mosquitos are LIKE B52s. They seem to like alcohol content which is why they bite/suck me all the time.
*sigh* it's nearly autumn (fall) here. They'll all die soon.
Pio, if you think that's "as it should be" and I'm sure you're not alone in thinking that, you have a long way to go still.
No, I disagree Jen. I think there most certainly should be sanctions for adultery. I think that would be an excellent deterrent. I wish to God something had deterred me. [um, gee like the vows I took...der]
I don't think that Pio's wanting JUSTICE, is a sign that he has a "long way to go still", but rather that he has a good sense of right and wrong and feels GOOD when justice is done...A healthy outlook I think...
I don't know Mrs W. Rob didn't want "justice" or even "revenge", he just wanted his Jen back and that's what he has. He's kinda special - that's what I love most about him.
Though I've never asked him, I'd say Mr. W would have been GLAD for my butt to have been in the slam during withdrawal...I was a MAJOR WITCH...Not to mention that monitoring for contact would have been much easier - less stress on the BS...And fitting consequences for the WS...I'm not seeing much of a downside...
MrsW understands my point. I just like the fact that adultery has real consequences to the adulterer. I think the deportation is great (I don't like the jail too much but it is better than getting stoned). OTOH deportation is a great punishment because it goes right the the adulterer's pocketbook. This will cost the woman money (deporation isn't cheap), possible job loss (more loss of revenue) and cost of establishing "new life" in another country. Maybe OM pays all those costs. Who cares? This simply puts a harsh reality on the A.
Believe it or not, I wasn't a witch. I said some typical foggy WW things but I wanted to put things right SO badly that I bent over backwards to make things right.
I know that two years later I was stupid enough to make contact again with the OM. Y'know Rob doesn't even count that. I know he doesn't. He said that he started smoking again when he found out our employee was stealing from us. I said "no, you started smoking again when I made contact again". He said "oh, did I, I don't remember anything about that."
Although I am certainly no expert, I believe mosquitoes have highly sensitive CO2 receptors (that's how they find you - by your breath), so I wonder if alcohol and CO2 production might not be correlatable?
I have also noticed there are different types of mosquito behaviors. There are the ankle-biters and the arm biters. I think ankle-biters have a longer life expectancy but that may simply be selective adaptation rather than a genetic effect. In other words, they survive longer because there is less probability they will be swatted. I also believe there is a correlation between sock color and bite frequency. Black socks seem to get bitten more. That also may be selective adaptation. Mosquitoes that bith black socks have a higher survival rate because they have camouflage. The ones that bite white socks get swatted.
Can mosquitoes have learned behavior? Three mosquitoes under a table. Two sucking on black socks and one sucking on a white sock. Suddenly one of the mosquitoes on the black sock turns to the other one and says "hey man - did you see that? Some big thing just came down hard on Gerald and now he's nothin but wings and eyeballs!" I'm staying away from that place!". Or, in other words, once you've had black...
It really is a shame about the missing posts but I'll try to give a Cliff's Notes version:
Me: Buying shawarmas learn Kindle 2 can check out books for two weeks instead of buying.
KiwiJ: Hate Kindle 2 because puts bookstores out of business.
Me: Since can check out books, libraries are probably next.
KiwiJ: her bookstore is immune because they only sell cute books.
Me: Waxing on about how many industries will disappear or radically change due to internet (newspapers, magazines, universities)
KiwiJ: Her university job is immune.
Me: Glad I work in the oil business but need spot price up a bit. Also added that if we really want to get out of the recession, don't be surprised if there is a war because history has proven that is the cure.
And I just wanted to say that the new mod sounds like a character out of a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta - with a parasol and all that. Parasols aren't scary.
Well since I haven't been whacked on the head by a parasol (oh and I have greatly renewed respect for Revera BTW - but WOW), I think I have discovered a huge problem.
I was cheating.
On the shoulder turn. DD1 had a golf lesson yesterday and we THOUGHT (okay not we - GEMELA) thought she had one today, we took her to the range. [Turns out the lesson is on Saturday]. So I hit three buckets and was annoyed that I hit a 7 iron and 1 9 iron the same distance with one arm (100 yards). I couldn't have thrown a dart any better. So I went back to fundamentals and realized I wans't getting very much rotation in the upper body because I was concentrating so much on NOT missing the ball. Once I got the swing back to basics, I may never play with two hand again (assuming I will be able to).
I have a match with gemela tomorrow. She's goin' DOWN!
And BTW I know the mods are after me but I would prefer not to be edited by "Berlin" because, quite honestly, I would fall asleep before I could read WHY. I have no disrespect for Germans themselves but I don't have the attention span for their language.
And, of course, our view of the French pretty much parallel.
my daughter aspires to be a teacher of German. I can't understand anything much that she says in German but I love the children's songs CD that she has!
We sent our dd9 to preschool (PreK-3 & 4) to a rather fancy private school...They teach French there because, according to them, almost all "international business" is conducted in French...The kids go to France in 7th grade and learn to become "fluent in not only the French language, but also in the culture"...ummmmmmm, okay...
We pulled her when they upped the price of kindergarten to $17,500/year...
Anyway, after spending 30K on preschool, dd9 can sing "Frosty the Snowman" in French...Obviously worth it, huh?
So $15,000 was an acceptable price but $17,500 wasn't? I see...
I guess at $17,500/year the 5 year old kids must eat a higher quality fingerpaint?
According to Discovery Channel, only 27% of Americans hold passports. This school claiming that all international business is conducted in French is clearly banking on the other 73%. I've traveled all over the world on business and the only place we ever conducted business in French was, oddly enough, in France.
But you go ahead and hold on to that happy thought.
Although it is obviously too late now, I was thinking that your school has a prety poor marketing strategy. Most people don't like the idea of paying more in this economic downturn so a price increase can be quite offensive.
What the school SHOULD do is charge their tuition in Euros. That way, with the falling dollar, they effectively get more money and you blame the Fed's discount policy rather than the school. Also, charging in Euros just seems more chic.
LOL! She's NOT just graduating kindergarten...that was years ago...der...
We figured that the price for pre-school wasn't as bad since we would have been paying tuition anywhere for Pre-K3/4, but kindergarten is free in public school here, sooooo $17,500 was truly outrageous...Hey, we were stupid and bought their sales pitch on the pre-K deal for our one and only child, what can I say? We finally woke up...THANK GOD!
I obviously haven't read this whole thread but am I understanding that your ONE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER needs work on the long game of golf?
Is that because she told you that or because you are just forcing your interests on your child who probably hasn't even been walking for very long and who probably doesn't make complete sentences yet...much less has the capability to understand a game of golf? That's a bit crazy!!! But, hilarious at the same time. Poor kid.
Actually, I only read from where you said you were having your one year old child taking golf lessons... Guess we can't all be genius'--you seem to have that category all wrapped up!!!
And if I referenced DD1 and DD2 by their actual ages, I would have to update all these posts every year. Since we can't edit a post after 0.000004 picoseconds, that is a daunting task.
I'm an idiot sometimes...can't help it...I'm from the South you know!!! Why are you one armed? And, I can see your point about the Swedish bikini model delimma...
OMG...I am LMAO here... You guys are hilarious!!! If you want a good laugh you should see the link I put on the Good laugh for the day thread!!! Little guy from Tennessee I believe!!! They got lots of inbreedin going on there!!! But, I am from Gawgia.
You know I can't physically pinpoint my location on a globe because I have this fear that, at that very moment, a giant finger will come down from the sky and crush me.
Mom- i heard this yesterday on NPR, a woman has written a book about her abuse. She said that she finally had an epiphany when her husband, who she loved dearly, was holding a gun to her head threatening to kiss her. She thought, "How can I trust another person's rage?" In otherwords, even though she loved him, in his rage she could not trust him to not hurt her.
The good man may be in there, but you cannot trust his rage. Protect yourself and your 4 wonderful children.
I read this in another thread and I'm just really confused. If she really loved him, why did he need to threaten her with a gun just to get a kiss? Why didn't she want to kiss him?
Mom- i heard this yesterday on NPR, a woman has written a book about her abuse. She said that she finally had an epiphany when her husband, who she loved dearly, was holding a gun to her head threatening to kiss her. She thought, "How can I trust another person's rage?" In otherwords, even though she loved him, in his rage she could not trust him to not hurt her.
The good man may be in there, but you cannot trust his rage. Protect yourself and your 4 wonderful children.
I read this in another thread and I'm just really confused. If she really loved him, why did he need to threaten her with a gun just to get a kiss? Why didn't she want to kiss him?
I'm gonna pretend y'all aren't that stupid.....why did he have to hold a gun to her head to get a kiss. He didn't. He was a raging abuser. She was his victim.
Nope, she didn't want to kiss him. But he didn't have to hold a gun to her head. He, in his rage, chose to.
I'm really working hard on pretending y'all aren't that stupid....working VERY hard on it.
Hey, at work, I read the documents and they say exactly what they say. I work hard at not intuiting what people are trying to say - just what they do say because that's all I can defend....just what's on the paper.
So, if people are going - 'duh, why did s/he do that?'....if I'm in my work mode.....I think they didn't get it.
BTW, I heard the feature NPR did with the woman who wrote that book. She was smart to get away from him.
There is another thread started last night(?) more or less that has already been hit by three (or was it four?) mods. I don't know about you but I'm gonna lay low for a bit!
Like the song goes, "who let the mods out? BOOM.....boom boom boom...who let the mods out? BOOM.....boom boom boom..."
POSOM always was a POSOM. He cheated multiple times on his first wife and his second wift, his wistress, is one he managed to snag while married to his first. Yup - a real winner.
I have actually climbed it twice. Last time my kids beat me to the top though and MrsK didn't even make it to chicken rock.
Ahhhhhhh Pre-affair - those were the days - even though POSOM was on the holiday with us.
Just think about that - poor MrsK being left behind while you race kids up giant monolith (sic?). All the while probably being ridiculed because she can't even make chicken rock! Lonely and abandoned, pre-POSOM comes to her aid and consoles her in her time of need and insecurity. At least he understands her.
Over on the RHS of the page there are some advertisements. One more at the top usually advertises for MB radio. The photos change. Pay attention. In one photo there is a woman in what I think is a wedding dress hugging what I think is her groom. Look at her shoulder. Come back later and that very same shoulder is hugging a different and much younger man in a white Hanes t-shirt.
I was at the supermarket today and saw packs of cable ties. They were in all different colours. I've only ever seen them in black. I smirked to myself.
Pio- I was reading today about the 8 year old SA girl who had to marry a 58 year old man because her father owed him money. And the courts backed up this horrible situation. Does it ever bother you that stoning and 8 year old brides are permitted?
Does it ever bother you that stoning and 8 year old brides are permitted?
What the kind of hell stupid question is that? Any decent person would be appalled by this. WHy are you singling out Pio to ask this? Just because he works there? That is really offensive to me.
Well perhaps you should skedaddle out of California too. I don't know how you could live somewhere where the OJ murders happened or the Manson murders. Does that bother you?
Perhaps you should type in your address and see if you can live even in your own neighborhood!!!!!!! http://www.familywatchdog.us/ it's the national sex offenders database.
Stoning anybody appalls me. I disagree that the case you mention is restricted to where I live. It recently happened in Yemen and I'm sure it happens in other countries but you never hear about it on CNN. It's not the government - it's Sharia law. I also see the tendency for that to spread to the USA. I recently read where several "Muslim only" towns have been incorporated in New York and elsewhere.
One good thing about living here is that my DDs can go out and play unsupervised. They could go out and play at 2:00AM and nothing would ever happen to them. I can't imagine a safer place for kids. Living here, I don't have to worry about my DD2 going missing only to be found in a suitcase at the bottom of a pond.
I just reread believer's post and can see that there were actually two questions. Yes the 8YO bride is over the top. Then again, what kind of father would "sell" his daughter to pay off debt? In how many countries do you now find parents selling their children into prostitution to support the family? You don't need to look very far, do you?
One misconception is that the govt controls the courts. It is the polar opposite. there is a lot I could say on this but am not in a very comfortable position to do so. Don't forget that there exists an extremely delicate balance of power here and and always has since Saud needed the help of the Wahabis to conquer Riyadh in 1902. He cut a deal he didn't like but seemed like the only alternative at the time. The deal still stands.
BigK, I don't think B was meaning to be offensive. It was very thoughtless of her though and your point that we all live with things that are wrong closer to (all our) homes is a very pertinent one.
BigK, I don't think B was meaning to be offensive. It was very thoughtless of her though and your point that we all live with things that are wrong closer to (all our) homes is a very pertinent one.
My point appeared to be totally lost on her actually.
...Any decent person would be appalled by this. Why are you singling out Pio to ask this? ...
err...BigK - this is where believer may have you. I think she would argue your assumption that I'm a decent person. Now if she asked that on YOUR thread, you would have cause to argue. I have to call this one a draw. Just sayin...
But don't you live in an area...almost compound-like subdivision or community that is separate and occupied by non muslim Americans or other nationalities and is very westernized? It is only when you venture out of there that you have the 'Saudi Arabian' experience but you seem to have little need to do that and when you want to go big time shopping you fly to Dubai?
Aside from lack of availability (and legality) of alcohol, it hasn't seemed like you and your family are very affected or exposed to the society outside your community...am I wrong?
But don't you live in an area...almost compound-like subdivision or community that is separate and occupied by non muslim Americans or other nationalities and is very westernized? It is only when you venture out of there that you have the 'Saudi Arabian' experience but you seem to have little need to do that and when you want to go big time shopping you fly to Dubai?
Aside from lack of availability (and legality) of alcohol, it hasn't seemed like you and your family are very affected or exposed to the society outside your community...am I wrong?
Yes you are way wrong. I'll explain better later but it is the weekend and my computer priviliges are somewhat limited. If you check back Saturday, I'll explain.
Thursday begins the weekend. But we are not in the same time zone - are we? Tardis? I had about a gazillion of them when I wuz in school. None in the basement though.
Okay I have a few minutes. I don't live in a compound. I live in a small city of 7,000 homes. The "camp" has a 14.5 KM circumference (I've run it so I know). Officially we only have 14% Saudis on camp but the unofficial number is much higher. In addition to that, all expats live here with the majority being AOA (asian other arab). In the entire company, we are only 1,554 Western expats (less than 3%). The majority of my neighbors are muslim. We get vandalized if we put up xmas lights. It is illegal to buy roses on Valentine's day (or anything even remotely red, for that matter). OTOH, there is no problem getting a sat dish if I want porn TV. Go figure. There is a mosque 200 ft. from my house. In the summer, I don't need an alarm clock - at least if I want to get up at 4:10AM. In the winter I get to sleep in to about 5:00 because the days are shorter.
There are no "American" compounds here that I am aware of except for maybe one that the (US) military controls. The locals can live anywhere they want to.
Yes, I was very wrong. I imagined it a lot differently. So your neighbors are religious muslims and you have head scarves or whatever they are called there all around you? I somehow got the impression that you were living in a more westernized area...do most of the people who work for your company live in your 'city'?
Didn't you say that some people you know make their own alcohol/wine/beer? I recall you saying that they would be in deep trouble if caught.
I've never been to the middle east but from photos of your yard etc. you posted a long while ago I don't recall it looking that different than places in the states. I guess I may be wrong again.
When it was built, it was an expat only camp. When the policy changed it created friction which has progressively gotten worse. The locals don't like us being here and we, in turn, wish they lived outside. Many choose to live here because of the freedoms. Wives can drive (no license of course which is a problem by itself), men can have alcohol without (much) risk, kids can live like western kids. Security policy has also changed so outsiders (friends/extended family) can come on camp to visit. They like to use our pools, gyms and generally cruise around because their idea of western culture is that we are a nudist colony. Since the women don't go around covered up head to toe, it's close enough. You would be surprised how excited a local can get just seeing some "ankle".
Some are very nice. Others ignore us and yet others are quite rude. Many were educated in the USA or UK. Many were not. There is not much socializing. I don't think I've ever seen a local woman not completely covered.
Fascinating. I thought you lived in an American enclave.
Are any of the locals nice to you?
Please accept my apology for being so thoughtless. I've always admired you.
If I remember, you were one of the first to post on my original thread. In the really low times when it seemed like many had given up on me, you were always there to throw out a lifeline. I don't know that I got as much advice from you as understanding and encouragement. But, let's face it, there is an issue and I, for one, am not afraid to talk about the white elephant in the room. You and I both know what you did and, while it didn't have anything directly to do with me, it was so totally unconscionable that I have never been able to forget it or get past it. You did the one thing that goes against everything I hold dear.
You gave away a Harley Davidson Road King. :twobyfour:
Fascinating. I thought you lived in an American enclave.
Are any of the locals nice to you?
Please accept my apology for being so thoughtless. I've always admired you.
If I remember, you were one of the first to post on my original thread. In the really low times when it seemed like many had given up on me, you were always there to throw out a lifeline. I don't know that I got as much advice from you as understanding and encouragement. But, let's face it, there is an issue and I, for one, am not afraid to talk about the white elephant in the room. You and I both know what you did and, while it didn't have anything directly to do with me, it was so totally unconscionable that I have never been able to forget it or get past it. You did the one thing that goes against everything I hold dear.
You gave away a Harley Davidson Road King. :twobyfour:
Let me go through my block. Opposite side of the street: Chinese-American, Saudi-American, American-American, Pakistani-American, Egyptian-British, Jordanian-American, Pakistani-Pakistani, Canadian-Canadian, Saudi-Saudi, Pakistani-Pakistani, Saudi-Saudi, Saudi-American.
My side: Indian-Indian, me, Nigerian-Canadian, Egyptian-American, Lebanese-American, Saudi-Saudi.
Nationality first - passport second. You have no idea how many foreigners carry US passports. It makes me a little angry that they don't have to pay taxes and I do. (well - they have to but they don't). Many carry US passports who haven't been there since they were a couple of weeks old. People send their pregnant wives to the US to give birth. Automatic citizenship and passport. Some have never been at all. If the parents are citizens, the local consulate will grant citizenship to the baby.
Compare an Egyptian engineer with Egyptian passport and MIT PhD engineering degree to his twin brother with the same credentials but an American passport. The twin makes five times the salary or his Egyptian brother.
I, too, find all of this fascinating. And, it's very interesting to think that an ankle can be so seductive. Especially with what we are used to here.
Back in 1991, I had been living in Abu Dhabi for a couple of years and, while I traveled to every country on the peninsula (except for that "I" one I can't mention because it is illegal), I never left the Middle East. Then one day I had to go to Singapore on a business trip. The Garuda flight got in about 1:30AM and I got to the hotel about 3:00AM and went to sleep. I got up about 9:00AM and went for a walk outside and, I'm not joking about this, my immediate overwhelming thought was "OMG! These women need to put on some clothes!!!". It really was culture shock because I had just gotten used to the ME.
You know it turned out just fine. I thought OW's husband deserved something after he got cheated on while in Iraq and came home to no wife, no job.
The OW went back to live with him for a short time, but they divorced and he met an Australian (27} in Dubai. He is 45 now. Anyway the Aussie chick looks good on the back of the Harley.
You know it turned out just fine. I thought OW's husband deserved something after he got cheated on while in Iraq and came home to no wife, no job.
The OW went back to live with him for a short time, but they divorced and he met an Australian (27} in Dubai. He is 45 now. Anyway the Aussie chick looks good on the back of the Harley.
I had a friend in Dubai who rode a Harley. He had a Harley shirt he had bought in Bali that said on the back "if you can read this, the b&%ch fell off". About a year later, I saw his wife in the supermarket. Her shirt said "I'm the b&%ch that fell off".
What was my point?
Oh. Yes.
I'm leaving MB. I just can't stay up this late any more.
Oh, and for KiwiJ who always thought this thread was educational, many parts of the pine tree ARE edible.
I have a bit of a conundrum. It all started out simply enough and somehow has just spun out of control. This year the DDs have been going through the classes to prepare for their first communion. Our plan was to get a letter from our local padre to present to the padre in Mexico so he would accept the girls for communion. If the letter doesn’t work then I’m certain a “little donation” will. Gemela wanted to do this in Mexico so the DDs could be with family. Now it looks like we may not even go to Mexico based on this new epidemic but, oddly enough, it doesn’t solve the problem. Gemela was finally able to locate an aunt and uncle to be godparents. Searching for godparents was a problem all by itself because, based on the requirement that they were married in the church and are actually still married (to each other), that left a very limited resource pool. Well the aunt and uncle took the role with enthusiasm and the uncle decided he wanted to get the DDs white leather-bound Bibles as gifts for the service. Later gemela decided that, if he bought the Bibles, they would be in Spanish since that’s all you can get in Mexico and Spanish Bible’s wouldn’t really be that useful to the DDs. I can already see where uncle’s good intentions are going to cost me money. Sure enough – gemela says I should buy them from the USA.
You wouldn’t think getting a white leather-bound Bible would be so difficult – at least I didn’t think so but I went on Amazon and came to find that people don’t actually print Bibles any more. Paper is apparently obsolete. All I could find was an electronically downloadable Bible for the Kindle 2. Well the Kindle 2 almost is white. The problem was it is plastic. Well with a little more searching I discovered the “5 in 1 Bundle for Amazon Kindle Includes: Melrose White Leather Deluxe Carrying Case + Car Charger + Travel Charger + Screen Guard + Live*Laugh*Love Wristband!!!” for only $29.99 in stock. Then Just as I was about to place it in my shopping cart, I saw the footnote “(not for Kindle 2)”. DANG IT! So I went ahead and ordered them with white silicone rubber cases hoping gemela wouldn’t notice the difference. Okay a long shot. Well not only did she notice the difference – she noticed they were electronic and totally not what she wanted. I was afraid I would have to return them but the DDs reminded gemela that they are wireless, improved display reads like real paper, 25% longer battery life and has a new text-to-speech feature so she eventually caved (although still not happy about the silicone). Everything was going fine until we took them to Father Paul to be blessed. What Amazon doesn’t tell you and clearly should is that the Kindle 2 is not holy water resistant. Fortunately holy water is good for putting out small fires. At least now I know where the phrase “Holy Smoke!” comes from (albeit an expensive lesson).
Now I’m back to square zero. Gemela has given very clear specifications now about what she wants and she wants two rich Corinthian leather-bound Bibles. Well I have checked Craiglist, facebook, myspace and google and I have searched and searched and, although I have been able to find quite a few rich Corinthians, I cannot find one single rich Corinthian who binds any kind of book – much less leather Bibles. Of the few rich Corinthians I contacted that looked promising, all have told me that they now outsource this work to China now because of the cheaper labor. I have discovered an upper middle-class Corinthian who may be able to perform this binding service in her studio in Corinth but the cost is slightly prohibitive.
If you're still hunting, Pio, here are some possible trails. I'm assuming you want the Douay Version and not the King James, etc., so that's what is in these links. If I was wrong, you should still be able to take off from here and find something with real paper and leather, although the "Corinthian" is not guaranteed!
I wish I could see an enlarged view of the photo. It does look nice but I cannot tell if it is a hard hardcover or it is a soft hard cover. I want the kind that is a little bendable.
One problem I see is that it's dimensions are metric. I would really prefer a Bible whose dimensions were English units. OTOH it does seem to have the most pages of any one that I have seen so far so it must be a good one. Do you think it has extra commandments?
One nice thing about the Kindle 2 was that it could always be updated by WiFi if they ever decided to add more commandments.
It's not that I have anything against the metric system. I really like driving better in countries that use it because you can get wherever you're going so much faster. Here, for example, I can drive 120 KM per hour whereas in the USA I can only drive about 75 miles per hour. So, in the same amount of time, I can cover a whole lot more kilometers - about 60% more. So, for driving, the metric system is more efficient and I'm sure it must save on fuel - it HAS to.
It's not that I have anything against the metric system. I really like driving better in countries that use it because you can get wherever you're going so much faster. Here, for example, I can drive 120 KM per hour whereas in the USA I can only drive about 75 miles per hour. So, in the same amount of time, I can cover a whole lot more kilometers - about 60% more. So, for driving, the metric system is more efficient and I'm sure it must save on fuel - it HAS to.
pio, I thought we'd got rid of you. Didn't we conduct your funeral just the other day? And now you're back, making me giggle when I'm supposed to be doing serious work. My productivity goes down when you're around here.
Well now I'm scratching my head. My theory is quashed. My same car in the USA has a 28 gallon gas tank but here it holds a whopping 106 liters! So even though I can cover 60% more distance, it takes almost 4 times the amount of fuel! If my calculations are correct, the metric system consumes 236% more fuel for the same amount of work.
So if we want to reduce global warming, the clear answer is to bin the metric system and go back to the English system!
Pio, if your conundrum is real (about the Bibles - not driving and global warning), maybe I can help. I live in what may be the Bible capitol of the known universe. I am SURE and CERTAIN that I can find a bendable, white, Catholic, properly illustrated, correct version Bible to meet your requirements.
Amazon must store cookies on my computer to always direct me to electronics. That first one is quite nice. I'm concerned it might be French though. Douay-Rheims?
I went through the design your own site. That is serious work and it asks a lot of questions I don't think I know the answers to. I'm going to stick with prefab with the exception that if I can get it personalized with like a gold leaf name on the cover - that would be nice. I think I saw one of those earlier but I think it was NT only.
Seriously there is something about my personality that makes me run away from things like Thomas Gibson. I simply cannot handle too many choices. I much prefer being given a small list of options that I can choose from. I absolutely hate to have to design something from scratch. It's why I refuse to eat in Mongolian restaurants. Even hot dog stands make me uneasy. I don't like Burger King because I don't want it MY way. I just hate the thought that, after it is all said and done, I didn't really get the best one - that I could have done better. Thomas Gibson either needs to add a help function or I need to go to Waldenbooks and buy a black and yellow "Bible Design for Dummies".
Purple Bible is a classic example - that would never ever have occurred to me.
I think I've been like this ever since I read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. I'm not entirely proud of it but it is what it is.
We have been talking for years about doing something and last weekend we finally decided to stop talking and start doing. I think it is already well documented here that gemela has a thing for shoes in general and boots in particular. The problem has always been that it takes her an extra half hour getting ready to go somewhere because it takes at least that long to go through all the shoe/boot boxes to find the pair she is looking for. I got them all out of the closet being careful to treat them with special reverence and I photographed every pair. Then I imported everything into Photoshop and reduced them down to 2.2" wide so I could fit 21 photos on an A4 page. Then I printed them out and, during this process, I went out to buy more printer cartridges because it hadn't occurred to me exactly how many pages I was going to be printing. I cut the photos and, finally ,I matched up every photo with it's corresponding box and glued them on. Now all the boxes are stacked neatly and, yes, with the photo facing outward.
Okay so what I thought was going to be a time saver has backfired. Gemela has now found quite a few pairs of shoes that she forgot she had bought. This now gives her more options to consider. In addition, now that all the shoes are so readily accessible, she spends even more time trying on several pairs before making the final decision.
What I can't quite understand is why she will go through three or four clothes changes before deciding what she is going to wear. It is especially curious since she has to cover it with an abaya so nobody can see it anyway.
$540? Cheap at the price. Okay I admit I'm a little OCD about cable ties - but I've never paid $2,000 for one.....yet. I'm leaving the possibility open though.
One pair of boots she has never worn and now doesn't like because the toes aren't "pointy enough".
I told her we may have to cancel our mandatory Mexico pilgrimage this summer so she needed to start thinking of a plan B. We already have some shows (Lion King, etc. for the DDs) booked for a three day layover in London so I suggested we stay in Europe. Then it suddenly occurred to me - where is Salvatore Ferragamo located? Could be a bad plan. I would rather risk the influenza porcina.
BTW if anyone is ever planning to do what I did with the shoe photos, a little tip - DON'T PUT THE SHOES BACK IN THE BOXES BEFORE YOU PRINT AND ATTACH THE PHOTOS! We did because I simply ran out of space to have all those unboxed shoes lying about. It got to be like that plastic number puzzle we played as kids where you had to move the jumbled numbers around until they were sequential on the plastic board with one tile missing. I could have shot myself for the stupidity. And I'm not joking here - 7 hours start to finish. That was almost like work!
To her credit, she did say "thank you mi cielo". I don't get THAT at the office.
Of course, if I did, it might make going to the office more fun. The company could save millions - compliments in lieu of salary increases. And you know what? We would take it....Gladly....
To her credit, she did say "thank you mi cielo". I don't get THAT at the office.
Of course, if I did, it might make going to the office more fun. The company could save millions - compliments in lieu of salary increases. And you know what? We would take it....Gladly....
BTW I still believe to this day that what ended the A was when I caught her with the cell phone and she admitted she kept it hidden in one of the shoe boxes. Then I ransacked the closet and dumped all the shoes in a pile on the bedroom floor as I searched the boxes for more "hidden treasures". She finally saw something at risk more important to her than POSPB. She HATES to see her shoes disrespected in ANY way. I know that because it almost caused a D years ago in one of our house moves in Dubai when I left her shoes in a (neat) pile so she could accommodate them at her leisure. I honestly thought I was doing a thoughtful thing. I mean I didn't dump them. I placed them gingerly. Obviously I was wrong... As I found out... Heatedly.
What I learned was that touching a latin woman's shoes is a bit like messing with a dog while he/she is eating.
A friend I work with told me his wife signed him up for a pilot’s class. He was going to the first class that night and he suggested I sign up too. It was only 25 riyals (6.67 USD) per class (curious they don’t charge for the whole thing but I guess some people drop out and don’t want to lose a lot of money). I have to admit I have always dreamed of flying ever since I read that Weekly Reader story in third grade about sailplanes and the cost of the class is just unbelievable. The company I work for has its own air force (737’s, 747’s, GS5’s , a fleet of helicopters, etc.) so I was thinking I might even be able to switch career paths after graduation. I was also thinking after retirement I might do a “Six Days Seven Nights” thing like Harrison Ford except without Anne Heche.
So I signed up for the pilot’s class. It wasn’t anything like I expected. First of all, I didn’t think you had to be in such good physical shape to be a pilot but MAN did they work us. So far we haven’t talked about planes at all. In fact, there is very little informative instruction and I haven’t quite figured out yet what the big inflatable balls have to do with anything. All I know is my abs are killing me. I can see now why people are only willing to pay by the class. I might drop out. I’m not sure being a pilot is worth this much pain. I guess they want you to be small so you can fit in the cockpit easier?
Pio, do you remember the coworker I was having a great deal of trouble with about three years ago. I was her manager and had been put in the position over her when she didn't get the job. You and Todd gave me a lot of very good and helpful advice but I ended up taking a better job in a completely different area of the university.
I never actually disliked her, I just couldn't work with her and we meet for lunch most Fridays. Today she said she wanted to tell me something. She told me she'd seen the file of all my grievances and complaints. Unbelievably, the HR manager left it on the desk when she was interviewing my coworker and then left the room, sort of nodding to the file and saying "it's all in there".
We had a very honest talk about it all. It was the conversation we should have had three years ago although we both agreed it would have broken down our relationship completely if we'd had the talk then. Amazing how things work out. I was so frightened about having the talk back then but when it all came out into the open today it cleared up so much. About our perceptions about each other, about management higher than us and their agenda, all sorts of stuff.
Yep, openness and honesty. It always works. I'm so frightened of conflict but we were both very calm and it really cleared the air. We both apologised too and meant it.
Opinions are welcome but I am struggling whether to cancel our Mexico vacation plans and go a different direction (or if not in a different direction, not quite as far in the same direction). We are scheduled to leave on vacation in 2 months, 12 days, 6 hours and 10 minutes (or 105,490 minutes). We planned to spend 2 weeks in Tabasco and 1 week in DF. Gemela, of course, is desperate to see her family and she has been planning their first communion there for over a year. So cancelling the vacation is difficult. OTOH, we don't want to put ourselves or the DDs at risk unnecessarily. Her family has been saying that everything is under control. Last night that changed and her sister is starting to get worried. I find it difficult to believe that everything will be back to normal in two months. So is it a stupid idea to go to Mexico this year?
If we don't go, we are thinking of something close by like Mauritius, Seychelles, Zanzibar or safari in Kenya. All are just a few hours away and would be a lot cheaper.
And if I can't make my own commandments, then can I at least amend some?
Thou shalt not commit adultery - unless you are depressed and a cute girl/guy comes along and it really isn't adultery since the marriage is effectively over so technically you aren't committing it anyway(1).
I don't think it's unsafe to go to Mexico. I talk with an academic at Harvard who specialises in infectious diseases. His opinion is wash your hands and don't sneeze on people.
I don't think it's unsafe to go to Mexico. I talk with an academic at Harvard who specialises in infectious diseases. His opinion is wash your hands and don't sneeze on people.
lol, I meant don't let people sneeze on you. I was just about to edit it. I'll check it out with the Harvard prof to see what he thinks about going to Mexico.
Yeah, I don't know what the HR Manager's agenda was. She's completely hopeless so who knows what she was thinking.
Well if she was trying to get a meeage across to coworker, professionally and ethically she should have used a different approach.
My impression is that she was trying to create a problem and more specifically, a problem for you. Maybe that isn't the result but it still could have been her motive.
Well I guess I just assumed Kenya would be inexpensive. I found out how wrong I was. So Kenya is off the list. We were seeing deals like $9,000 per person. Of course that did include airport transfers.
I just upgraded to Internet Explorer 8. I have been really frustrated with this site because, when making a post, if you have more lines than fit in the window, it keeps bouncing up to the first line for every letter you type. It is not only annoying but you can't see what you are typing. I thought something was broken on MB. Then I decided to try to view MB in "compatibility mode" and it solves the problem.
Well I can see that there is no point in arguing with you. I have explained myself to you ad nauseam yet you are obviously too much of an imbecile to understand it so I shall not waste my time on you. I spit at the mere thought of you. I hope that your skin develops boils (none of which will make you rich because it vaguely resembles "Elvis") of an obscure and undiagnosable nature with possible subcutaneous lesions that prove, after countless painful examinations, to be inoperable. I loathe you and pray you amble about aimlessly in Purgatory for 1000 years uttering nothing but the name “Sheila” for no apparent reason before spending eternity to rot in He!!.
In Christlike love at all times.
Unfortunately people reading it now would have no idea what I was talking about. You just had to be there.
As I recall, this is where you used to get most of your ****edits****.
"For the rest of the world, the new H1N1 flu seems to have a mortality similar to regular flu, roughly one in a thousand or so. In Mexico, the numbers are about ten times that. We think that is just because many people infected never even came to the hospital, but that is not known yet for certain. As I posted in my note, this is a big problem for the WHO, since even one in a thousand deaths is a big deal if billions of people get infected. But for any individual, it is not worth worrying about. Having spent a lot of time in Mexico, I can attest that they are much more likely to get run over by a car than be killed by swine flu (and that is leaving aside the current wave of drug violence, which came after my time). So, no, by all means travel to Mexico! They need it right now! Just wash your hands, and if you get sick, wear a mask."
I just upgraded to Internet Explorer 8. I have been really frustrated with this site because, when making a post, if you have more lines than fit in the window, it keeps bouncing up to the first line for every letter you type. It is not only annoying but you can't see what you are typing. I thought something was broken on MB. Then I decided to try to view MB in "compatibility mode" and it solves the problem.
So MB definitely has a problem with IE8.
Just started happening to me in the last couple of days with firefox
SIL is telling us not to go. Her SO's company (major oilfield service company) is telling him how serious the situation is. We still have till the end of June to pull the trigger.
As I said above, if you run in compatibility mode, it seems to solve the problem. What is great is that IE8 seems to remember what mode it was in the last time you visited the site so you don't have to select compatibility mode each time.
I just now found out why I haven't been able to log on to this site for months and I also see that my 47,000 gems of wisdom have been obliterated by some "bug". This reeks of an ML plot to obviate anyone who surpasses her post count.
It definitely occurred to me last week that the single greatest loss to this forum due to the recent data crisis was the obliteration of the most profound input ever which was found nearly exclusively on this thread the last 4 months.
I just now found out why I haven't been able to log on to this site for months and I also see that my 47,000 gems of wisdom have been obliterated by some "bug". This reeks of an ML polt to obviate anyone who surpasses her post count.
It definitely occurred to me last week that the single greatest loss to this forum due to the recent data crisis was the obliteration of the most profound input ever which was found nearly exclusively on this thread the last 4 months.
I just now found out why I haven't been able to log on to this site for months and I also see that my 47,000 gems of wisdom have been obliterated by some "bug". This reeks of an ML polt to obviate anyone who surpasses her post count.
I'm out.
I can relate, I lost about 100,000.
Can't we left justify anymore? Infidelity is all about justification. Take justification away and what do you have left?
"Revised Unabridged" seems to me to be a bit of an oxymoron - kind of like "to infinity and beyond".
I'm not so good. My right lower leg is only attached by one ligament at the moment (the ACL is the only good one). Skiing accident. I'm not a big fan of snowboarders now. One of them caused this. Everyone else is good. After 11 months one-handed, I was finally playing golf again with two hands a couple of weeks before vacation and now this. Fortunately there are some good programs on History channel. I'm hooked on Deadliest Catch and Ice Road Truckers.
Pushing around in a wheel chair is great exercise for the shoulders. I might keep mine just to do laps around the block when this is all over.
Sorry to hear that Pio. Sounds painful but on the upside think of the upper body workout you can get racing around in your chair. You could have iron biceps in 3 months.
You didn't do it is that ski resort in Dubai did you? Now that's a real life oxymoron - well sort of.
I hope Gemela is doing a good job of looking after the invalid.
Actualy biceps are about the only upper body muscle a wheel chair doesn't work. It is great for delts, triceps and a little bit of traps.
Yes gemela takes great care of me but I am struggling for the 15.5 hours/week. Right now we don't have a lot of common interests other than lunch and "According to Jim" reruns.
I don't get Planet Green. It is banned here. Remember who I work for.
Amazing how ML never misses the spitoon. Years of practice I guess.
Okay my PCL is gone forever. Good news is my LCL is recovering nicely. Bad news is my MCL is shredded but will more or less heal with a lot of PT and pain over the next three or four months. At least I should be walking by then. I did find out in second opinion that I did some internal damage to the bones to he equivalent of a fracture. Actually I didn't know that was possible but I'm learning.
After the MCL and LCL are okay, they'll decide whether they need to attempt surgery on the PCL or just give me a DonJoy for the rest of my life.
If anyone has recommendations on DonJoys BTW, I'm interested.
I should also say that I'm somewhat in a moderately serious mild depression. I'm normally a very active person and I continually discover things I cannot do any longer. I did accompany gemela to the grocery store last night in my wheelchair. I found a lot of things on the bottom shelves I never knew they had. I only now realize they keep the Oreos on the top shelves. The b@st@rds!
Pio-I feel your pain. My experience with the DonJoys is limited to about 15 years ago--I'm sure they've come a long way since then. I will say that I got better results by just wearing the neoprene sleeve than with the whole brace. (My ACL was blown and MCL partial). The P/T said it was probably because the neoprene provides additional sensory input to the nerves around the knee, allowing your fast twitch muscles to react to any imbalance. I think my DonJoy started collecting dust after about 6 months. But I haven't had a knee slip (knock wood) since about 1990. Granted, I'm a green/blue skiier and weekend warrior in volleyball so I don't put a lot of lateral pressure on it. Good luck!
My knee is still messed up. They have now decided that the injury caused CRPS so the pain has become an animal all its own. I'm now at three weeks without crutches so that's something.
Gemela and the DDs left yesterday for Mexico so they should be getting to DF just about now. I'll see them in Houston in 30 days. After our vacation, I'm planning surgery on the knee. I either want it fixed or get the leg cut off. I'm tired of being in pain. A couple of months ago I was near suicidal.
The doctors have me on a trial-and-error process of dealing with the pain. So far it is mostly error.
Well I guess I do owe an update. The past 18 months has been really tough. First I had the TFCC injury. Good news was a got to a 21 handicap playing golf with only one arm. I finally started playing with two hands again about three weeks before we went to Switzerland where I destroyed my knee.
I haven't been in the best of spirits. For her part, gemela has been stellar. Even so, I think I spent the better part of last year actually hoping gemela would cheat again so I would have an excuse to get divorced. I still had a lot of anger.
Now we are just at Dday plus 5 years and suddenly I think I feel like Lieutenant Dan when he was looking at the sunset and decided to jump off the Jenny and go for a swim. And that's all I have to say about that.
I guess maybe 5 years is a magic number but I seem finally to be happy.
Hi Pio - sorry to hear of the "downs" in your update. Five years for us now (almost) post d-day and I actually have started to feel normal again! Let me know if I can help you - you have my email address below in my sig..
Hi Pio - sorry to hear of the "downs" in your update. Five years for us now (almost) post d-day and I actually have started to feel normal again! Let me know if I can help you - you have my email address below in my sig..
Five years ago, almost to the day, gemela was off on vacation with the DDs when I learned of the A and she finally confessed it over the phone. I remember it was so surreal.
Last week gemela took the DDs off on vacation a month before I am to join them. We haven't done that since Dday.
If you were paying attention, what I said was:
Quote
Now we are just at Dday plus 5 years and suddenly I think I feel like Lieutenant Dan when he was looking at the sunset and decided to jump off the Jenny and go for a swim. And that's all I have to say about that.
Obviously you've never seen Forrest Gump.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well.
Yet another update.
Yesterday for the first time I am now able to go up and DOWN stairs like a normal person.
No need to be sorry. You know I believe everything happens for a reason. The way I see it, if I hadn't been laid up for months and hadn't missed so much work, I never would have gotten to see Ice Road Truckers. Can you imagine how much poorer my life would have been?
Interesting you should say that because, as I implied, this is kind of a deja vu experience for me and yet it never crosses my mind that gemela is up to no good.
As far as the knee goes, I have been in a wheel chair and later on crutches for months with no hope in sight and not much improvement. Just in the past 10 days my progress is almost exponential. I think if I could straighten my leg out, I would be normal (stuck at 15 deg extension since forever). I haven't had a pain pill all day and even the CRPS is hardly noticeable and that had me more worried than the knee itself. It is really strange.
Yeah, I guess it's been 5 years post D-day for me, too. Sadly, not much to report. No new affairs, but no real progress. I can live vicariously through you guys!
I'm sorry to hear that. I don't really have a good explanation for how we got here. We do spend way more than 15 hours a week together (unless she is scrapbooking and then I run as far and as fast as I can). Without really knowing much about MB, I will say she has taken extreme measures every single day to keep me in a good place. It has been a very difficult 5 years and I know I'll never do it again. If there is another A, I'm done immediately. Maybe that is the sad part because I know that I love her but could also cut loose in a heartbeat. I'm just amazed at the serenity that seems to surround me. No idea where it came from. I don't ever worry about her haing an A now. It's not that I know she won't - it's that I know that there is nothing I could do to prevent it. Peoples' choices are their own. All I can do is worry about my own choices and the consequences they might have. All the pieces of my life just seem to fit. The DDs are great although DD2 is a lazy slob and we are working on that. She can't go through life the way she is. Either she needs to change or she needs to marry well. DD1 has her first boyfriend (she's 11 now). That reminds me - anybody know where I can buy a shotgun?
My DD13 likes boys but has no chance of ever getting a boyfriend. Yes, dad would kill the boy, but no boy will ever ask her out. She's just too darned intimidating. Very sarcastic, super-intelligent, pretty, tall, skinny, and most boys seem to prefer the bimbo-type girls who pose little challenge. Come to think of it,.... I think that's what my FWH found so attractive about his then-19-year-old OW. (other girl-OG) Good luck with the tween Pio.
It's been....how many years? Can't even remember any more. Just to let everyone know all is bliss. Gemela and I are still together and things are going really well. Girls are doing great. Older one is in the USA with Gemela visiting boarding schools and missing first week of school here. DDs will soon be 12 and 14. I just wanted to thank everyone who helped get us through all this. I'll check back in another few years and give another update. Ma' salama
It's been....how many years? Can't even remember any more. Just to let everyone know all is bliss. Gemela and I are still together and things are going really well. Girls are doing great. Older one is in the USA with Gemela visiting boarding schools and missing first week of school here. DDs will soon be 12 and 14. I just wanted to thank everyone who helped get us through all this. I'll check back in another few years and give another update. Ma' salama
Thanks for the update and so happy to hear the MB success.
Man hugs! I had totally forgotten! That really made me laugh. You still have my email. Really great to here from you. I never did run up Ayers Rock and with my knee, looks like it will never happen. Send some warm weather this way. All the best buddy.
It's been....how many years? Can't even remember any more. Just to let everyone know all is bliss. Gemela and I are still together and things are going really well. Girls are doing great. Older one is in the USA with Gemela visiting boarding schools and missing first week of school here. DDs will soon be 12 and 14. I just wanted to thank everyone who helped get us through all this. I'll check back in another few years and give another update. Ma' salama
Hey Pio! Good to see you and happy to hear you and Gemela are doing well.
Looks like its time for a biannual update. Things still going strong. For past two years, no more painful memories and no doubts. I can finally say I made the right decision to fight for the marriage with no reservations. We will be empty-nesters begging September as DDs will both finally be in boarding schools. It will definitely be a new experience. It is still hard to believe where this all started and it was, at times, a painful journey. I would not change anything though. If big k is still around, ((bigk
So delighted to hear you are doing well! Life is great for me and my wife as well. Kids getting married and all of them out of the house. New phases of life....
Hey bigk. I'm not sure who is still here and who is not. Congratulations. I'm still a few years away but not as many as I would like. I heard a rumor that Uluru is off limits. Tell me it isn't so! If true, that's one off the bucket list. Gemela has been with DD2 in another country since January so I have been a bachelor. Definitely not part of the MB program but I have been surprisingly okay with it. My personal vocational circumstances just made it unrealistic for DD2 to attend school here and she was too young to go to boarding. It is not the ideal circumstance and I find that I can go for weeks and my longest conversation is with my cats. I am starting to forget words. They will be back next week. I hope it is the last time the DDs will ever come back here. That is the general plan. We can get together elsewhere during school breaks. DDs chose different schools. While this will likely preserve peace in the family, it is havoc on vacations as each school has polar opposite terms and breaks. DD2 gets two four day minibreaks. Air travel to and fro is almost three days. Not sure how we are going to handle that when the time comes. Here things are stable but could change overnight. With pil prices what they are, I think I am stuck here for awhile. Of course I could go back and DDs could go to public school. They didn't appreciate that suggestion. Don't know why. Worked out okay for gemela and me.
Do you know anything about Bigger? I don't know if I ever thanked him for pointing me to MB and getting me off that other board.
Gemela and I are planning the future. Trying to decide where to live. Right now we are looking at Virginia. No idea why really. I read an article on the best and worst places to retire. I think Virginia was #4 or #5. They had a place called Idaho at the top but I had never heard of it. Not even sure if it is really a thing. But I had heard of Virginia before although it's not exactly where I thought it was. Shoulda studied harder in geometry.
Excellent question and was not my first choice. In fact, the original concept totally fell apart. Cliff Notes version is there was a very big tail wagging the dog. DD1 left to go to boarding school all on my dime. We did not really know what else to do. She got into a very bad situation her last year here that led to cutting. We did not know what to do but she was desperate to leave. She thought a new start was the answer. Anyway that started the ball rolling.
DD2 went into depression. She wanted to leave to. We started having that conversation casually and suddenly it happened that gemela's gemela and her significant other (gemela's gemela was and remains an OW but don't get me started) were being tranferred to a SA country with a difficult environment. So gemela's gemela decided that, since DD2 was going to school in a nicer place, she would send her daughter there too and make it a family thing. Turns out a govt obstacle prevented us from actually folowing thru at the time. No bother. The sister goes ahead and moves with her daughter and starts school. So the sister pretty much put us in a point of no return. I told gemela from the beginning that this was a very bad plan. That's effectively what happened - a bad plan. Well the niece has flunked out so that's a good thing. After next week, she is gone. No longer my problem.
Yes separating was not without thought. But it interesting that gemela goes out of her way to get me to trust her. I also took (and always willl) the stance that, if she wants to cheat, she can and will. In that event, I would simply file for divorce without a second thought. I suffered too many miserable years to ever want to repeat it. Since I finally (and some will argue the contrary) got the basics of MB, i know that i have done everything I know how to do to make this marriage successful. If that is not enough, I got nothin else to try.
In some ways this has been cathartic for me. I scheduled two vacations so that our time apart was limited. This last one was the longest at 10 weeks apart. Neither gemela nor her gemela can be with the girls at school for more than a few months in any given year so they were tag teaming looking after the DDs. Probably way TMI but you asked. If this had gone on much longer, I don't think they two of them would have spoken again. So I said from the beginning it was a bad plan and now gemela agrees. Was not a cheap experiment though. I won't say how much because it is embarassing.
Let me just add that gemela's gemela's daughter really wanted to go on this adventure because in the new SA country she was going to, she would not be able to continue her dressage and show jumping. So this whole thing was about going some place where she could pursue this and become wealthy and famous like that person, what's the name? The one that got rich and famous jumping horses. You know? Oh wait. Nobody has ever done that. Really poor decision making on her parents' part and they now realize that. Unfortunately it put us in a really bad situation in the interim. Her mother thought getting good grades was just a question of the amount of money because that is how it always worked before. She went to a country where those rules didn't work.
Let me just add that gemela's gemela's daughter really wanted to go on this adventure because in the new SA country she was going to, she would not be able to continue her dressage and show jumping. So this whole thing was about going some place where she could pursue this and become wealthy and famous like that person, what's the name? The one that got rich and famous jumping horses. You know? Oh wait. Nobody has ever done that. Really poor decision making on her parents' part and they now realize that. Unfortunately it put us in a really bad situation in the interim. Her mother thought getting good grades was just a question of the amount of money because that is how it always worked before. She went to a country where those rules didn't work.
I don't really understand what you have written (what is gemela's gemela?) and I also don't understand why whatever it is that you are describing is important to you - especially since it seems to relate to your wife's niece education. How is that relevant to your marriage?
Even if it were your own daughter's education that forced this consideration, you are entirely wrong to have made such a bad decision for her. Your daughters' security is being put at great risk by you and your wife's choice to live apart from each other.
The best protection you can offer you, your wife and your daughters is for you and your wife to live together and never to spend a night apart.
It takes extraordinary precautions to ensure that an affair does not develop in any marriage - whether or not it has suffered an affair - and takes those same precautions to rebuild a marriage that, like yours, has suffered a affair (and a deep one, at that).
Nothing should come above your marriage, and with making sure that your marriage involves meeting each other's intimate emotional needs (intimate, face-to-face conversation, affection, sexual fulfilment and recreational companionship) for at least 15 hours per week. Nothing should come above making sure you spend every night together. Nothing should come above making sure that your lives are so transparent and integrated that an affair could not start without the other spouse's knowing about it. If you want your marriage to be a passionate marriage that lasts a lifetime, nothing should come above it; not your daughters' educations, not making money as an expat, and ABSOLUTELY NOT some other child's educational aspirations.
I'm really sorry to read this update. As someone in a marriage where we had to take the extraordinary precaution of getting my H to give up working abroad, and eventually, to retire early while we still had a child at school, I'm really concerned for your marriage.
Yes separating was not without thought. But it interesting that gemela goes out of her way to get me to trust her. I also took (and always willl) the stance that, if she wants to cheat, she can and will. In that event, I would simply file for divorce without a second thought. I suffered too many miserable years to ever want to repeat it. Since I finally (and some will argue the contrary) got the basics of MB, i know that i have done everything I know how to do to make this marriage successful. If that is not enough, I got nothin else to try.
Hi piojitos! Thanks for the update, even though it is not a good one. I am sorry to read you and your wife aren't in recovery and are taking such risks with your marriage. But since you didn't ask for advice, I won't give it.
Haven't seen bigk in a few years, but the last I heard, he and his wife were doing very well.
Hi Pio, have you spent time recently reading here on the MB forums?
One thing that comes up often is a saying: Anything that comes before the marriage will come between the marriage.
Dr. H recommends that couples never ever spend a night apart, especially after an affair. It just won't work because couples need a minimum of 15 hours of UA time each week in order to just MAINTAIN our love for each other.
It sounds like you weren't enthusiastic about your (or is she gemala's?) daughter going away to study dressage?
Please stay and post and update here. Hopefully once your wife returns next week, the two of you can POJA some changes going forward so that your MARRIAGE will come first for the rest of your lives.
OH!!! And Pio...something new...there is now an APP for smart phones! You can download the app and listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show for free every day!
Listening through the app allows you to save your place and not have to jump in wherever the continuous loop is (like when we used to listen to the show). It's pretty awesome.
You may be right. I was not happy gemela chose sister and niece over our family but I would have always come second there. Now it seems that has changed. I think gemela has come out of this with a different attitude. Hope so anyway. This has soured her a bit on the blood/water thing. The niece has issues that I hope she can overcome. I am glad DD2 is not here. Honestly I am so relieved that, should anything happen, I know they are safe. To some extent, I'm glad gemela is not here. But I can't live this way indefinitely yet there are hundreds of my coworkers that do exactly that. That is no life. Either gemela lives here or we live elsewhere. With WTI just below $60, now is not the easiest time to live elsewhere so gemela is coming back here. I'm sure M/L can give me the correct spot price. I'm just guessing. Gemela told me she is sick of how things turned out and just wants her life back here.
We both viewed this little adventure as a sprint. Yes after next week it is all about planning the next phase of our lives. Maybe in Virginia. It has not been easy on either of us being apart. I know a lot more about cats than I did before. If it had not been for SIL (that would be gemela's gemela for those unSpanish speakers), we would not be in this boat. But if I had put my foot down back then, gemela seriously would not have gotten the point. SIL and I will probably never speak again. A few months ago, gemela was angry with me about that. Now she agrees. They may never speak again either.
Guessing BK has Pio on his "watched list" so maybe he'll get this post too.
pio - If you feel like talking about it ----> you told your wife it was a bad plan. If you weren't enthusiastic, why did it happen anyway???
Maybe DD2 will want to or be force to come home too (like her cousin). Teenage girls are so difficult. Dr. Harley says that we are to try to manage and protect them as best we can, hope what we've instilled up to the age of 15 is enough, and pray they make it to college age.
I hope soon you can find a way to all be together. I just don't see "less family time" as the best answer to teenage girls acting out and depression.
Do you want help, pio? The goal of recovery is 2 pronged: affair proof the marriage and create a romantic relationship. We can help you achieve this.
I can't count the couples over the years who came back with repeat affairs because they didn't follow the program. I know what happens when couples spend the nights apart. They set themselves up for an affair because they become emotionally detached. Since they are spending nights apart, the opportunity for an affair is right there. But that is not the only damage by far.
My H and I were transferred to Houston back in 2007 and I went down to work before he did. I would leave on Monday and come back on Friday. It was a disaster for our marriage as we quickly discovered. We stopped doing that after a couple of weeks. I was amazed at how quickly we became emotionally detached. We both were both very independent while apart, so when we came back together, there was always fireworks until we got used to accommodating each other again.
My point is that you can't possibly sustain an integrated, romantic relationship while living apart.
DD2 is as happy as I've ever seen her. She is the most mature of the 4 of us. The DDs were raised here. They have known nothing but here. Once they tasted over there, they wanted nothing to do with here. We have a house there where we can get together for breaks and holidays. We are starting to take root. That is part of what is making this work. We are no longer nomads. I know you are up on current events. Having DDs here is not an option. The kids that stay here are alcoholics, on drugs or both. Believe it or not but absolutely true. I'm just glad DDs are out of harm's way.
M/L, i will get back to you on that. If I discover that anything is not right, I will call you first. But in this moment I love gemela as much ch as I akways have. Can't wait to see her.
I know there is the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" thing. I actually got that once. Te queiro pero no estoy enamorada de ti. Some how sounds better inSpanish. Not really.
I will say that, until I found out, I was in love with gemela. I have never gotten that back. But I do love her as much as the day I met her.
Good to know you have my back even though I'm the prodigal son.
I did visit SI dot com a few minutes ago (not sports illustrated - the other SI). I would not have survived there. Thanks MB for being there.
DD2 is as happy as I've ever seen her. She is the most mature of the 4 of us. The DDs were raised here. They have known nothing but here. Once they tasted over there, they wanted nothing to do with here. We have a house there where we can get together for breaks and holidays. We are starting to take root. That is part of what is making this work. We are no longer nomads. I know you are up on current events. Having DDs here is not an option. The kids that stay here are alcoholics, on drugs or both. Believe it or not but absolutely true. I'm just glad DDs are out of harm's way.
To be clear, the harm I am not talking about is not alcohol or drugs.
If it had not been for SIL (that would be gemela's gemela for those unSpanish speakers), we would not be in this boat.
Nah...let's be clear...if you and your wife had bought into POJA (never do anything without enthusiastic agreement from both of you), then you would not be in this boat.
Originally Posted by piojitos
But if I had put my foot down back then, gemela seriously would not have gotten the point.
But MB isn't about educating our spouse so that they get the point. We don't have to agree with our spouse's perspective at all...we just have to not DO anything until both are enthusiastic about the choice.
Gemela never bought into POJA, MB, or any of it. Read her thread. This was all me based on MB advice. Our marriage showed the results and even gemela would have to agree with that. But nothing I could ever do would be stronger than the family. Whether I am right or wrong, I believe there is a big cultural difference between the two sides of the Rio Grande. South, family comes first.
Pio--a voice from the past! Glad to hear that you Gemela are still around and kicking. Good luck with resettling. Idaho is a nice place. Not that I live there myself. (Not that extreme northeastern Montana is a more salubrious environment, either!)
I think there is something twins believe. Whether real or perceived, there is a bond that transcends physical reality.
As a somewhat yet not quite scientific observer, there might be some evidence.
I have seen at least 7 or 8 occasions where one awoke in pain only to find out later the other had gotten badly hurt. How do I fight that whether it is true or not? They believe it.
Pio--a voice from the past! Glad to hear that you Gemela are still around and kicking. Good luck with resettling. Idaho is a nice place. Not that I live there myself. (Not that extreme northeastern Montana is a more salubrious environment, either!)
tl
OMG!
T&L!
I have not the words!
I googled "idaho" but all I got was "do you mean" "I don't know?".
For me, Big Sky is the way to go. But DDs are somewhat dictating where we can land. We have told them that they won't be there for more than a few weeks a year at most. Doesn't matter. At this point it is all about them. For me, I'll be happy anywhere. Why not? I've been miserable everywhere else. I want good Harley country. Unfortunately that would put me in SD. How many times can you visit Wall Drug without getting tired of bison burgers?
BS2013, I will try tomorrow. All I have tonight is an iPad. My finger is bigger than the buttons. I did not really follow her thread. Part of the deal. There were a very few people that responded her. Very special people who I have great tespect for but ai think it was all in Spanish.
I never have gotten rid of the feeling I am the frog in the pot of warm water on the stove. But my fear more IS personal rather than of another affair.
I never have gotten rid of the feeling I am the frog in the pot of warm water on the stove. But my fear more IS personal rather than of another affair.
I'm not surprised that you have that feeling now, with your wife living in another country. I can't understand why you took the decision to live like that; to do something that increases the odds of an affair very significantly.
But nothing I could ever do would be stronger than the family. Whether I am right or wrong, I believe there is a big cultural difference between the two sides of the Rio Grande. South, family comes first.
I don't understand this. Aren't you and your children your wife's family? Are you saying that her sister and her children are placed above you and your children, in your wife's mind?
I think there is something twins believe. Whether real or perceived, there is a bond that transcends physical reality.
As a somewhat yet not quite scientific observer, there might be some evidence.
I have seen at least 7 or 8 occasions where one awoke in pain only to find out later the other had gotten badly hurt. How do I fight that whether it is true or not? They believe it.
What relevance has this got to her living in another country?
I googled "idaho" but all I got was "do you mean" "I don't know?".
For me, Big Sky is the way to go. But DDs are somewhat dictating where we can land. We have told them that they won't be there for more than a few weeks a year at most. Doesn't matter. At this point it is all about them. For me, I'll be happy anywhere. Why not? I've been miserable everywhere else. I want good Harley country. Unfortunately that would put me in SD. How many times can you visit Wall Drug without getting tired of bison burgers?
This is what I remember most about you--your wit and unsquashable good humor in the face of a LOT of disappointments and grief. You reminded me of a Bobo doll, getting smacked over and over and always bouncing (sometimes slowly, sometimes fast) back up again. You seem to have retained that ability. You made me laugh. (Is Wall Drug Store still around? I visited that place 60 years ago with my parents on their furlough and had no idea it was still around and selling bison burgers, to boot!) I hope you make yourself laugh, too! Chaste, MB hugs to a special person.
Me gusta que ha llegado de nuevo. Aqui falta los que hablan el espanol y siguen el mb. Yo no lo escribo suficiente.
Idaho gana si busca el costo de la vida bajo. El estado de Virginia es mas bonito y tiene mas aeropuertos. Parece que si continuen como seguidoras de sus ninas, Gemela y usted tendran que viajar mucho.
Espero que progresas con la Gemela cuado se reunen. Hay mucho que aprender. Que lastima que ella no le pone prioridad.
I was never accused of following all the rules. One of my issues. Yes you are correct.
Hey Neak.
As I mentioned earlier, gemela never was interested in MB. She found posting distasteful. I think she is somewhat about not airing the dirty laundry in public.
There is a couple here and the guy cheated on the wife based on FB contact with okd flame. The guy is kind of a jerk anyway and I hated him for what he had done. I swallowed my pride and gave him HSHN and SAA. The result was truly amazing. He took it head on. I think he even posted here for a few weeks. They are a trye MB success.
I never considered us a total success but we did survive and were and are doing quite well. Year seven was hard on me for no particular reason. It just was. This last year has been a challenge because, sorry to sound selfish, there has just been nothing in it for me. That doesn't make me angry. It just made me wonder what the point was.
Yet hundreds of people here live as bachelors while family is elsewhere. Frog in the water. Ours was never planned to be long term. I put up with it because SIL painted me into a corner. Gemela definitely put SIL first.
I think this may be more true in Latin cultures. I'm not Latin so cannot say for sure. I did take three years of it in high school. Gallia omnis divisa est in tres partes. Those three years have served me well.
I doubt that I have ever mentioned this but here is my one problem with the whole affair. I can't remember if it was on MB or SI but I read an article or chapter of a book by a pretty well known guy that talked about EAs. He said that, unless an EA ran its course, that the woman would never be able to get completely over it. Well if that is true, then there is some part og gemela that still wishes things would have turned put differently. That the fun and romance would have continued forever. We all know that is impossible in reality but the dream can live. Gemela never had a lightbulb moment. I found little reminders for years. Little caches of cash hidden in different places that were the exact amount to buy a orepaid phone recharge card. When I reinforced the drawers in the dresser (which gemela asked me to do) and I found an envelope with pictures of pool boy and love notes. Those things. So some part of that unrequited love, however small, is still there. Asymptotically approaching zero but never able to get there. That is my issue. I can't remember the name of the Dr. Who wrote said article/book but I'm sure some of you have read it to.
You are referring to Surviving An Affair. That is why Dr. Harley stresses the Importance of extraordinary precautions. If she is saving love notes and pictures you have a problem.
A few years ago we did a road trip. Landed in Houston and rented a car. Drove to Graceland, DC, Philadelphia, NYC, Niagra Falls, Chicago and were headed to Keystone SD. Except for the cities, we would just drive as far as we could each day and stop at a motel alongside the highway. We crossed the state line in SD and saw the first Wall Drug billboard. I am not exaggerating when I say there must be over 1,000 WD billboards in that state. After awhile, I no longer cared about Mt Rushmore. I wanted to go to Wall Drug. That evening I got tired and checked the GPS and learned the next available hotel was 120 miles away so I stopped at some lazy little town thinking I would not have any problem getting a room in one of their dozen or so motels. I would have been right too if it had been any other of the 364 days in that year. I was just lucky enough to hit the Corn Palace Festival. Who knew?
Later we went to Vegas, Grand Canyon, Roswell, petrified forest, painted desert, San Antonio and finally back to Houston where I took. Solemn vow never to go on a road trip again.
Not Dr. Harley. I wish I could remember the guy's name. I believe Dr. Harley's point is that it can be overcome. This other guy was quite insistent that it cannot.
Not Dr. Harley. I wish I could remember the guy's name. I believe Dr. Harley's point is that it can be overcome. This other guy was quite insistent that it cannot.
Sir Dr. Harley is quite clear that the wayward spouse will often hold a positive love bank balance for the affair partner. That is why No Contact is so important.
A few years ago we did a road trip. Landed in Houston and rented a car. Drove to Graceland, DC, Philadelphia, NYC, Niagra Falls, Chicago and were headed to Keystone SD. Except for the cities, we would just drive as far as we could each day and stop at a motel alongside the highway. We crossed the state line in SD and saw the first Wall Drug billboard. I am not exaggerating when I say there must be over 1,000 WD billboards in that state. After awhile, I no longer cared about Mt Rushmore. I wanted to go to Wall Drug. That evening I got tired and checked the GPS and learned the next available hotel was 120 miles away so I stopped at some lazy little town thinking I would not have any problem getting a room in one of their dozen or so motels. I would have been right too if it had been any other of the 364 days in that year. I was just lucky enough to hit the Corn Palace Festival. Who knew?
Later we went to Vegas, Grand Canyon, Roswell, petrified forest, painted desert, San Antonio and finally back to Houston where I took. Solemn vow never to go on a road trip again.
Ive been on lots of road trips. Last one was across country with my 3kids to Disneyland. Encountered a tornado and a few other issues. Had a couple prostitutes knock on our motel door one night. But what does road trips have to do with your situation ?
Late one night just west of Cleveland about 10:30 i was dead tired. We stopped at a Super 8. Five AM the headboard in the next room was pounding the wall and a woman was becoming very emotional in the moment. We left the parking lot about 5:15. Fortunately we didn't leave anyone behind.
Late one night just west of Cleveland about 10:30 i was dead tired. We stopped at a Super 8. Five AM the headboard in the next room was pounding the wall and a woman was becoming very emotional in the moment. We left the parking lot about 5:15. Fortunately we didn't leave anyone behind.
Ive been all over that region. You were probably on that toll highway.
Nosotros hemos podido viajar. Creo que las ni�as han estado en 27 o 28 pa�ses. DD1 tiene una m�s debido a que se fue a Nepal con un groupo de la escuela. Uno de los beneficios. Perdoname por mi espa�ol. Est� un poquitito oxidado. Estos d�as de viaje se nos est�n acabando y pasamos a otra etapa de la vida. Posiblemente vamos a las Islas Caim�n a pasar la Navidad. Las ni�as estar�n de vacaciones y no quiero traerlas por aca. Tienen ganas de bucear y el vuelo no es muy costoso. Personalmente odio a viajar despu�s de todos los a�os y ya no aguanto los aeropuertos.
Ive been all over that region. You were probably on that toll highway.
There was another big drug store besides Wall. I can't remember the nam but it had almost as many billboards. We stopped there too. Both were interesting. I got to Sturgis the week after the rally. The town was dead but I bought a lot of cheap t-shirts that were otherwise being packed up and shipped. Sturgis rally is one of my few bucket list items remaining.
Ive been all over that region. You were probably on that toll highway.
There was another big drug store besides Wall. I can't remember the nam but it had almost as many billboards. We stopped there too. Both were interesting. I got to Sturgis the week after the rally. The town was dead but I bought a lot of cheap t-shirts that were otherwise being packed up and shipped. Sturgis rally is one of my few bucket list items remaining.
Its just a party of drunkenness and wet t-shirt contests. I think your time may be Better invested in your marriage.
I dont know. I do know Dr. Harley explains this and that is the reason for No Contact. Every time your wife looked at her love letters or pictures she had hidden she broke No Contact.
My friend comes to visit me once a year. He is divorced and picks up his son for the summer from his ex wife. He spends a night at my house on the road. He likes to stay in campgrounds instead of motels while traveling. He usually goes to the KOA campgrounds.
Personally I stay at the state and county campgrounds as they are usually cheaper than KOA. But KOA camps have pools which kids like though.
As I said, there was never a turning point. Never any clear delineation. We just very slowly began to stop not talking until we got to the point where we almost never not talked. Now we have not not talked in many years.
I am not unhappy in the marriage. There is nobody I could ever imagine being happier with. Gemela seems like she has changed and it is not all about her any more. She is much more interested in the DDs and their growth.
My friend I mentioned earlier was at a dinner party and had had quite a few. His wife had gone back home for emergency leave as her father had died. This friend made the comment that she was a much stronger person and that the death of her father, while painful, would not hurt her that much because he had already hurt her more than anything possibly could. While he was right, it came across as if he did her a favor. We left the table.
That the fun and romance would have continued forever. We all know that is impossible in reality but the dream can live.
The fun and romance should have continued in your marriage. It is not a dream, but a reality for many, many couples who actually follow the program.
Your wife is not special in that a part of her is still addicted to the OM. That's run of the mill.
Marriage Builders is not about busting up affairs. The whole point of marriage builders is to overwrite the memories of the affair with positive memories in the marriage. There is so much to this program that you never did. You are nowhere close to having survived the affair.
I was pulled over in Iowa for speeding but the patrolman was nice and just gave me a warning. Not like the California Patrol. They gave me a ticket and their prices are 3 times above every other state.
Prisca, your criticism seems to be particularly acute. I'm not criticizing your criticism. Just giving you me feelings. Having said that, I'm very open to it. I went back and started reading this thread from the beginning yesterday. Interesting. I tried to link to the other threads I had started but the links did not work. Maybe they were just moved. I do remember a time when one of the nicer mods (and many have threatened me - you know who you are) contacted me because someone in my community was, stalking is maybe too harsh a word, showing unusual interest and she deleted some of them against normal MB policy. Super lady BTW. The point is I cannot see any of year one. That was the worst.
I do remember that I was doing the very heavy lifting. Gemela wanted nothing to do with any of this and I remember that my Plan A was extremely protracted because Plan B, which I was preparing for, was (based on what our MC told us and I have since confirmed but admittedly never factored into the decision process) never an option. We all would have been thrown out of the country and I could not handle that financially at that time. Dubai had left us in serious debt as it does anyone who ever lived there. I forgot how long I stayed in what we shall Plan A(ish) but it was way too long and against MB practice and advice.
I want to clarify one thing. I said I loved gemela but was not in love with her. What I meant by that was that for 8 years, whenever I was waitng for her somewhere, I would get tingly whenever I spotted her in the crowd. I could feel it. I never have gotten that back an I sort of miss that. But now when I am in the same situation, I don't get the same physical reaction but, I somehow fell complete if that makes any sense. I tried to look at gemela's thread yesterday but stopped after a few pages. I don't want to go there again. Unfortunately I have found myself extremely down for that effort. My cats are helping. Well....not that much.
Gemela's mom put up with 19 years of infidelity. She was cheated on during her luna de miel. She just "dealt" with it. I don't understand how that factors into the equation but I am certain it does. SIL is still an OW after 17 years. That plays here too.
So beat up on me all you want. I am not offended. If that is your goal, you are falling short. What I mean by your criticism being acute, it just stops there. Not seeing you offer any alternatives.
And Jedi Knight, I think your criticism is harsh too. Iowa is not that bad.
Once again, that is still more criticism than advice. I know it sounds like advice but it is only in a passive aggressive way. Is there anything you recommend in particular or is follow the plan pretty much it?
He said hello to old friends, and received their greetings in return. If that's all he wanted to do, I can't quite see the harm in that, nor would I want to dismiss it as nothing more than the desire "to blog."
Prisca, your criticism seems to be particularly acute. I'm not criticizing your criticism. Just giving you me feelings. Having said that, I'm very open to it. I went back and started reading this thread from the beginning yesterday. Interesting. I tried to link to the other threads I had started but the links did not work. Maybe they were just moved. I do remember a time when one of the nicer mods (and many have threatened me - you know who you are) contacted me because someone in my community was, stalking is maybe too harsh a word, showing unusual interest and she deleted some of them against normal MB policy. Super lady BTW. The point is I cannot see any of year one. That was the worst.
I do remember that I was doing the very heavy lifting. Gemela wanted nothing to do with any of this and I remember that my Plan A was extremely protracted because Plan B, which I was preparing for, was (based on what our MC told us and I have since confirmed but admittedly never factored into the decision process) never an option. We all would have been thrown out of the country and I could not handle that financially at that time. Dubai had left us in serious debt as it does anyone who ever lived there. I forgot how long I stayed in what we shall Plan A(ish) but it was way too long and against MB practice and advice.
I want to clarify one thing. I said I loved gemela but was not in love with her. What I meant by that was that for 8 years, whenever I was waitng for her somewhere, I would get tingly whenever I spotted her in the crowd. I could feel it. I never have gotten that back an I sort of miss that. But now when I am in the same situation, I don't get the same physical reaction but, I somehow fell complete if that makes any sense. I tried to look at gemela's thread yesterday but stopped after a few pages. I don't want to go there again. Unfortunately I have found myself extremely down for that effort. My cats are helping. Well....not that much.
Gemela's mom put up with 19 years of infidelity. She was cheated on during her luna de miel. She just "dealt" with it. I don't understand how that factors into the equation but I am certain it does. SIL is still an OW after 17 years. That plays here too.
So beat up on me all you want. I am not offended. If that is your goal, you are falling short. What I mean by your criticism being acute, it just stops there. Not seeing you offer any alternatives.
And Jedi Knight, I think your criticism is harsh too. Iowa is not that bad.
Cats won't help much. They only care about themselves.
Oh I wasn't complaining about Iowa. I was complaining about California. It is that bad. The peoples state of California is terrible in fact.
I dont know what you can do when you have a wife who places her sister above her husband. I guess move into the basement. Hopefully she would let you at least keep the cats for companionship. If the sister approved.
If he doesn't want to use the program, that is perfectly fine. But anybody following this thread should be warned that what he calls "survived the affair" is not what Dr. Harley calls recovery.
1. They still spend nights apart 2. No Just Compensation has been given 3. Extraordinary Precautions are not followed by either 4. His wife is not getting what she needs from him 5. Their marriage is wide open for another affair on either of their parts
This is not what a Marriage Builders recovery looks like. We certainly wish him and his wife the best, but there's problems here and this board doesn't just ignore that.
I thought about this and wanted to (and will) leave it alone. But yesterday I had six hours driving with nothing else to do and no scenery to distract me and, unfortunately, it gave me time to think. I have learned a couple of thing over the past couple of years and one of the two of them significantly altered my life. So here is the pretty much the whole story so that I can be properly analyriticized.
There are two sets of lies that I am aware of.
Mexico: Las tres mentiras Mexicanas 1) la �ltima y nos vamos 2) ma�ana te pago 3) la puntita y nada m�s
USA: the biggest American lies 1) the check is in the mail 2) "Hi. I'm from the US government and I'm here to help you."
I had been happy for quite some time believing that, should something happen to me, the wife and DDs would be taken care of. We have a few friends here that are in a similar passport situation as us. After more than a year of warnings from several of them which I had dismissed, I did some investigation. I'm sure Mr. W knows much more about this than me but I found that inheritance tax exemption (which could expire at any time depending on who gets elected) does not apply to foreign wives of US citizens.
While I had not previously been all that concerned about my mortality, given this new information, it began to trouble me greatly. The things that concern me are, in no particular order:
1) natural causes 2) living where I am told we just took over top spot in highway death rate (WooHoo!) 3) the occasional wayward power tongs 4) H2S 5) what we shall euphemistically call "deviant ideologists"
So both gemela and I talked about this for many weeks. She no longer had her green card which I am certain is thoroughly covered in this thread so I won't go into that. In order for gemela to apply for US citizenship, she has to physically reside in the USA for (might not be exactly right here) a minimum of 186 days for either 3 or 5 consecutive calendar years before she can apply to be a naturalized US citizen and qualify for the inheritance tax exemption. The 3 or 5 years depends on what company you work for. US based companies only need three. Technically I do not work for a US company. Well I downloaded all the forms and we applied for a new green card.
Where I work, I am on family status which, among other benefits, pays the education costs for the DDs. In order to qualify for family status, she must physically be here at least 180 days every calendar year. Adding 180 and 186 presents a bit of a challenge to try to meet both goals. We formally applied for an exemption from the company which was later denied. We had already gotten DD2 accepted to a school in the USA and the plan had been for gemela to stay with DD2 while putting in her time for citizenship.
About two weeks before school was to start, gemela got her green card interview. It was denied. I was actually relieved in a way and gemela was too although it didn't resolve the inheritance tax issue. We were going to cancel the whole plan. DD2 was upset but it was what it was. Then, as mentioned previously, SIL decided she would send her DD to the same school in the USA and she moved there with her DD and started school. Because of her visa, she was not legally able to stay there by herself for the entire school year. SIL convinced gemela to have both girls attend school together and the moms would do a tag team. So yes this is where the tail wagged the dog. Both gemela and I felt like we were trapped. As much as I did not like the idea, gemela did go with SIL.
Nothing has been achieved. We are no longer working toward citizenship and we are keeping family status just barely. What seemed like a good plan in the beginning all went terribly wrong. Both gemela and I agree on that. In five more days, the nightmare will be over but doesn't diminish the experience. I discovered that I am not a very pleasant person to be around. I know that because I have had to be with myself 24/7 for several months and I have not enjoyed it.
Another of the things I learned only recently. We changed houses last year to have a better environment. Overall it has been a good change. About two months ago, I got up to make breakfast, get ready for work and, as I was leaving, I noticed a small swarm (let's call it about 60) of bees attacking my kitchen light. I left quickly. When I got home, they were gone. The next morning as I was making breakfast, another swarm on the kitchen light. I got ready to leave, sprayed them and ran out the door. In the afternoon I found dead bees all over the kitchen. Next morning, more bees, spray and death. Pest control came out to investigate and found a bee hive that already had five cones in the plenum space of my house so the bees were confusing my kitchen light shining through an AC duct with sunlight from the hole which, for no explainable reason, is in the side of my house. The hive location made the situation complex. I coexisted with the bees for several weeks. During that time a learned some things about bees. First, never shine a flashlight on them. Let's just say the result will be bad. But I also learned there is such a thing as guard bees. I always thought there was only a queen bee and drones. Guard bees are different. I don't know if they take turns being guard bees or it is a career. The guard bees position themselves around the nest and will attack anything they perceive as a threat before it can get to the nest. I have the photos. Really quite amazing.
So this is the story. Now, in case any questions might come up: 1) why didn't I just quit and move to the USA? Well DD college expenses weigh heavily on my mind. Denial of green card made it impossible. 2) why didn't we just let SIL sort out her own mess? Unfortunately I don't have this answer. It would certainly have caused a big problem for gemela wit SIL and DD2 was desperate to leave here which influenced the decision.
I have another serious concern and I was ToddAC were here to discuss it. Massive solar flare. In the event of a large CME hitting the earth, I think it is very unlikely I will ever get to see any of my family again. Commercial aviation will stop. Communication will stop. Sea transport may be the only option so there is that hope but that will not be easy. I am thinking I should buy gold coins to have on hand in case of emergency. There are always things that can happen but nothing can be done about the CME. I've read estomates that it could take years to have power back on in the USA. Maybe never in 3rd world countries. I really miss you ToddAC.
I forgot to mention. Our company does not allow inheritance to go to a trust. We explored that option. Inheritance must go to an individual. I have to confess that I thought about giving up my US passport. Ultimately I chose not to do that and will not but, for the people who have done so, I totally get it. I don't think it is acceptable in all cases. That FB guy who moved to Singapore should have had to pay taxes IMHO. So benefitting from the US and then quitting just to avoid taxes is not right. Having inheritance tax exempt for only US wives of US citizens is not right either. But that is where the second American lie comes to play.
We are made wise not by the recollection of our past, but by the responsibility of our future. GBH. I think he gets quoted alot by my brother from another mother Todd.
BTW, one night i bought a MM in your honor. Could not finish it. Made me react like T&L to a bison burger. My actual bison burger was not that bad but, like McD, I didn't want to go for another.
So this is the story. Now, in case any questions might come up:
1) why didn't I just quit and move to the USA? Well DD college expenses weigh heavily on my mind. Denial of green card made it impossible. 2) why didn't we just let SIL sort out her own mess? Unfortunately I don't have this answer. It would certainly have caused a big problem for gemela wit SIL and DD2 was desperate to leave here which influenced the decision.
Hi Pio,
There are so many options to pay for college these days that I do not understand why you are twisting yourself into knots living as you have been. Granted you can't change what has already happened but your life seems very drama filled because you allow it to be.
As for being concerned about the taxation of your estate in the event of your death...you are still putting a lot of focus on finances. I can understand your concern but again a lot of drama. Why don't you purchase a life insurance policy to help offset some of the taxes? You can have a Trust as the policy owner and the Trust as the beneficiary. And of course, you could live for another 30 years so this would all be moot anyway.
The thing is I don't really feel the drama. Except for having to live by myself for a few months, I am otherwise very happy. Granted I am not happy with SIL and we will likely never speak again. The taxes I am talking about are a couple million which, if I believed the govt would spend wisely, wouldn't bother me all that much. I think the DDs would spend it better. I understand MB and am greatful for it. It got me here. But there is a round hole that the square peg apparently won't fit in. Being an expat is difficult knowing my country couldn't care less about my wellbeing. Just ask the 1,300 people abandoned in Yemen. Not sure really why they were in Yemen. I have been there a few times and it is not paradise. I work with a few Yeminis and none of them will go back there. I would like to visit Salalah though. Bucket list item (and not in Yemen but close).
So I agree I am concerned about finances. DDs are American. I'm not sure that gemela could even get residence in the USA in the event of my demise. It seems that trying to follow the rules is the worst thing to do. The govt makes everything difficult. Go illegally and everything seems easy. Unfortunately I am (mostlty) a rule follower. If I quit and go back to the USA, I cannot take gemela with me without a green card. I am considering Belize. Gets us all close.
No disrespect for Apple because no signature. Appreciate your concern however. It does make me wonder though why the other FWs that have been so vocal have been so much on the attack. Makes me wonder what buttons were pushed. Having never been a W or FW, I don't begin to contemplate that mental geography. If they have found happiness, I'm glad for them.
But seriously, I am so greatful for all my many friends on this forum. That includes you M/L even though you refuse to admit it. I really appreciate bigK and, God rest his soul, ToddAC. I love you guys.
No disrespect for Apple because no signature. Appreciate your concern however. It does make me wonder though why the other FWs that have been so vocal have been so much on the attack. Makes me wonder what buttons were pushed. Having never been a W or FW, I don't begin to contemplate that mental geography. If they have found happiness, I'm glad for them.
But seriously, I am so greatful for all my many friends on this forum. That includes you M/L even though you refuse to admit it. I really appreciate bigK and, God rest his soul, ToddAC. I love you guys.
Peace out.
Who are you talking about, and how did they attack?
WOW Pio, this is a 5 Star thread ya got here dude! Color me impressed! 
![[Linked Image from i39.photobucket.com]](http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/jwondering/th_cowb.gif)
![[Linked Image from millan.net]](http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/cheerleader.gif)
YAY! Pio~~~>![[Linked Image from s6.tinypic.com]](http://s6.tinypic.com/w71kyr_th.jpg)
is back! ![[Linked Image from s6.tinypic.com]](http://s6.tinypic.com/bf05yf_th.jpg)
![[Linked Image from s6.tinypic.com]](http://s6.tinypic.com/wjyz2h_th.jpg)
![[Linked Image from s6.tinypic.com]](http://s6.tinypic.com/35iyavr_th.jpg)
