Hello all:

I'm in an aggressive search for a new job. In my particular situation, I want to move back into my original core competency field...a field I left when I had small children as the hours and the travel were too demanding. Now my kids are older and I'm looking for a job that I *can't* do with half my brain tied behind my back, and back in my field, which is exciting and ever-changing, vs the repetitive, very boring job I currently have.

So, I thought a general job hunt thread, where we could throw out ideas and bounce things off each other, might be helpful.


I personally, don't need the "What Color is Your Parachute" type advice, but others might, so feel free to post that.

And most importantly, in this forum, how can we ensure that we are following MB procedures while pursuing a big life change like this?

Here's what I've done since I made the decision to find a new job: (with enthusiastic agreement from my spouse)

1. I sent out a Linked In blast to all my contacts (except current work and others related to current work contacts). I kept it short and simple and let people know I was looking, what I was looking for, and why.

2. Updated my resume (I tailor it a bit for each position but the backbone of it needed updating) and I ran it by several trusted friends as well as a few recruiters I know, for feedback.

3. POJA'd relo possibilities with spouse.

4. Put on my list daily: do at least THREE job-hunt related things per day. Send out a resume, make a new contact, look at a job board...and/or much more.

5. Use Facebook (I'm not a Twitter fan). Search out companies and/or industries of which I am interested and become "fans" or "like" their pages. That ensures I get their newsfeed.

6. Results so far: The feedback from my LI network has been phenomenal, if not totally fruitful yet. I uncovered: a)two jobs where I have contacts very close to the hiring authority; b) dozens of new contacts c)a jobs newsletter that I never knew existed, thanks to a LI contact; d) some new and trustworthy recruiters, e) some enterprenurial opportunities that were offered to me. I have to pass since I need my paycheck, but I was able to refer some other friends and colleagues to "pay it forward".

I had a phone interview yesterday; I'm hoping that I'll make the cut for the in-person interview coming up in a few weeks.

I'd love to hear anyone's advice. Post your own job search journey too!

Since it's a public forum, I'm keeping my specific details off this thread. If that doesn't apply to you though, feel free to use names, etc.

ETA: I also have participated in a few online seminars and webinars that have helped me update my skills.

OH:

Great news!

Good luck with the search....

But now you know why I own my own firm. I can't be fired. Oh, I can, but no one client firing me will cause my lifestyle to change.

LG

Thanks LG.

I do have a good personality/work style to be my own boss. And I have owned my own business in the past. But right now, I need a steady paycheck. And I need to make more than I am at the moment. And I need growth potential. And I need not to be bored!

Today's job-related activities so far:

1. This thread

2. Started a discussion on LI about updating job skills.

I have used LinkedIn to find a few managers who had moved on from former client companies, but the information it forces you to post scares me. I don't want to put out there these company names and what I did there.

OurHouse, what kind of job are you trying to land? What sort of skill set? Instead of just considering going back to some type of job, what other directions could you go with that skill set?

Maybe your POJA of your career move will get your husband thinking outside his box, too.

One can always hope...

I'm a marketing person, Retread. I have specific skills and experience in a certain segment. Marketing people tend to get shoeboxed. That's not terrible, and it's not impossible to jump from say, restaurants to pharma, but in this economy I would have a lot more success trotting out my achievements and successes within the consumer industry I've worked, than trying to go pharma, hospital, education or high tech.

That still leaves me a lot of wiggle room. And there are lots of different disciplines within that category. There's marketing communications, brand management, product development, r&d, field marketing, advertising (agency or client side), public relations, social marketing/online marketing, website development.

And so on.

My LI profile is very succinct. I have a 'bio' up top...basically a summary of my qualifications boiled down to what I call my elevator speech. Then I list the companies where I've worked...to a certain point. No need to go back 20+ years. One or two sentences describing what I do/did on the more recent jobs, along with my achievements. My education and any other certifications.

People who are connected to me can see the entire profile. People who are not can see an abbreviated version. Unlike Facebook, you don't want to get TOO private because the purpose of LI is business networking..so I want people to find me.

Marketing and sales are skills that translate across industries.
Every business needs more sales or better sales. The best salesmen cost nothing out of cash flow, because they want to be paid on production. A really big company, where sales constitutes a huge percentage of the workforce, the top VPs will make $250,000, and the average state sales manager will earn $750,000. So, if you are good at marketing, look for companies which are driven by marketing.

OH, you mentioned several times that your husband liked working on houses, like carpentry, remodeling, etc. I remember on an old thread that you said he was a college athlete who like coaching. I don't understand why he doesn't try to get in touch with these things that he enjoys. I knew a college QB who should have played in the NB, but didn't. He ended up coach of his old high school team, and has won a bunch of championships. He is so happy with his life.

Retread, you are preaching to the choir. I have suggested he go into teaching (he's a history buff and he connects well w/ teens and could easily be a history teacher and a football coach) and he says "it's not him". The guy in the truck doing handyman/repair work at the house across the street "is just not him". The contractor "is just not him".

RE: Marketing and sales. Two different but related disciplines. I'm really not a sales person. I'm in business development/sales now and I want to go back into marketing. Marketing is a cost center; marketing spends money to increase sales, but it's the sales and/or operations people who make the cash register ring. Yes, it's all related, but marketing is a behind-the-curtain support department. Not to malign or demean marketing or make its importance less significant, because it's not. Not by a long shot.

You don't know what is not you until you give it a whirl. Volunteer to do carpentry for a home repair charity and find out without the pressure of going into business. Same for teaching: substitute teach and find out. In some states, they will let you teach full time for a year without certification, and will pay male teachers 100% of education costs to become certified during the summer.

Sounds to me like he is afraid to try and fail, especially in a big way, from making a big risk like a career move. Why worry about the opinion of anyone who would look down on you for trying something new?

Again, you are preaching to the choir, Retread. I have made all these suggestions, enough times that when I bring them up now, it sparks an AO which is a whole OTHER issue in my marriage. My attitude is who the *^*)& cares what you do for a living? But it's not shared by you-know-who.

Sub teaching is a very good way to see what it is like...and it is kind of trial by fire in some ways. Teaching is rewarding AND allows you to use some creativity. However, it is also "a game" of sorts when it comes to interacting with administration and parents. You have to have a bit of a "schmooze gene." And a willingness to jump through some non-teaching hoops from time to time. But I think it's a great job

My DH has had some nibbles - Las Vagas and a Jr. College in AL. I am willing to do anything at this point - teaching, writing of some sort, anything creative, working for a state agency like employment/unemployment (I did that in grad school). I even thought about trying to start something for other teachers, like doing their flyers, brochures, bulletin boards, etc. because I love that stuff (I seem to be good at corny/catchy phrases and gimmicks). I wouldn't be good with secretarial because I type horribly - never had typing and only use four fingers.

I don't know how I got off on all that.

This AM:

We're driving back from dropping my car off at mechanic. H needs gas. We stop and are next to one of the kids from the local HS (don't know why he's not in school????). H looks at him and says "wow, I'd love to get his parents to hire me to train him. Big kid, lots of football potential if he's on the right workout program."

So I said "wonder what it takes to get certified as a personal trainer? Couldn't be too difficult, do ya think?"

HIM: No I don't want to be a trainer (translation: "it's not me"). What I think would be a great niche is to connect w/ the high school students and guide them through the recruiting process for college athletics (H went through this himself many moons ago...it was different back then, but I'm sure much of the same strategy applies).

ME: Sounds interesting and cool. Would you need contacts with college coaches and recruiters on the other side?

HIM: Yes, but you'd also need to know how to market the kid, get him in the right training/workout program and so on.

ME: Now that would be cool. And something I could see you or someone doing well into age 60's and beyond. In business for yourself, set your own schedule, etc.

HIM: (jaw tightens) Yup.

....silence ensues.....

Not sure WHAT I said to merit that. Bring up yet another idea of something he could do? Was that "not him" again? Anything less than the "big corporate job" is not worthy of his time and attention?

Earlier this AM, he mentioned he'd finally gotten in contact with a guy who runs a company that did much the same thing as the place he worked from 2007-2008 (when they went out of business). The company did some niche work for banks. He was an account manager and complained bitterly the entire year that the company was mickey mouse, run by idiots, etc. He was partially right because they ran themselves right out of business. But again the job "wasn't him".

UGH

There are a million jobs which are "not him".
A. He needs to design some of his own dream jobs,
B. then go see if he can find them, and apply for them,
C. then look for companies that need to create such a job
D. figure how to create the job for himself

High school athletes definitely could use some objective advice in a lot of areas. Parents hire advisors for their children regarding academic choices. Athletes need it even more, especially the ones without the grades or the educated parents. State regulations vary, but there are not many for high school, like there are for sports agents representing athletes who want to go professional. Just watch out for the NCAA minefield.

I was a college athlete, and knew a lot of them who made it to the NFL, NBA, major leagues. I saw athletes who should have made the top held back by being at the wrong school.

Also, I know not-so-great athletes who made it big by doing what your husband dreams of. They turned a cloudy idea into a crystal clear vision, and created sports equipment brands, became VPs of billion-dollar divisions, or marketing advisors for professionals.

Gotta get plugged in, and to more than one socket. A friend of mine who was an NFL safety now volunteers a lot to help high school football players and track runners....
www.Takkle.com is the social network for high school sports.
There are lots more. Start with your alumni association.

It sounds like your H is in what I can "brainstorming and strategizing hell." My DH went through this when teh kids were small and he was fired from a chorch job. He spent months and months and every cent of our savings "thinking." When he was playing Dune and I would ask about it, he was strategizing. He did get a church job finally, and the church agreed to pay for our move. Our SS class took up a collection of about 150.00, which was all we had - everything in the checking and savings was gone.

I think we sometimes get caught up in making plans to make plans. We organize our office suppiles, we read an inspiring book, we list email addresses....but we don't actually DO anything. We are going through this right now too. In my DH's case, the reason he didn't like me talking about specifics of a new possibility was because specifics required action. Generalities were something he could just dream about indefinitely.

Retread, as soon as I got excited by his seed of an idea, it seemed like he just shut down. Didn't want to talk about it, had that tick in his jaw going, that he gets when he's angry about something. I knew if I'd pushed, he would have either had an AO, or just said something like "I just tossed out a thought; and you have to twist it all around..." or something similar.

It's not the big, cushy, corporate job with the fancy title and the office...THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE, and if it did, they'd be looking to hire someone who has been working consistently for the past 8 years.

It doesn't matter that there are tons of opportunities/different directions he can go. I can think of FIVE right off the bat.

1. Go into coaching. This isn't a full time job, so the ideal companion job is to be a HS teacher. He's a history buff, he has a college degree and he could snag a FT job or even a substitute job while he pursues graduate credits necessary AND coach a HS team (he's done the coaching thing before and loved it, but didn't return for season #2)

2. Become a consultant to HS athletes and help them navigate the minefield, market themselves etc. This would take some networking and research to get started and wouldn't bring in $$$ right away but I'm happy to suck it up there and continue with just my salary for the sake of future success. He could actually snag a PT coaching job while he's doing this!

3. Paint. He's a fast and professional painter. It requires a minimum of tools and is not as hard on him, physically as carpentry. But he could also do light carpentry.

4. Go back to school and take some classes to update his job skills for the corporate arena. He has no marketing experience in the online/tech/social marketing areas. Of course, his response to this is "it's not really marketing. You have to drive the brand and all these young snots coming out of college have no clue about big picture."

Kind of reminds me what the old farts said about cable TV when I was just getting started in the advertising business. They said it wasn't "real" TV and that the young whippersnappers just coming into the biz, had no idea how to put together a comprehensive media plan.

LOL

Amen!
You don't have to sit on a mountaintop and figure out the exact career path before you take a step on the path. You have so little control over where things lead. There is good luck and bad luck. You find things you never thought about.

Specific action spending 1 hour a day finding 5 or 10 jobs that can be applied for with the same resume, then another hour sending out that resume. Then 30 minutes or less getting feedback to tune that resume. You do this before 7:00 AM and after 7:00 PM.

Then go to work doing something, anything, to make some money, even if it is 80% less than you made at your last job. Your last job is like last Thanksgiving dinner - it's gone. Think about what you are going to eat today.

1. Paint...
move this to number 1. Get some money coming in...

2. Job hunt 5:30 AM to 7:00 AM, 7:00-7:30 PM

3. Go into coaching....
Volunteer at the high school. Work with promising students over the summer

4. Become a consultant to HS athletes and help them navigate the minefield, market themselves etc....
Research hard for one week, create a web site, print some business cards, and start advising people NATIONWIDE, while you are plugged in as a volunteer coach.

24. Go back to school and take some classes ...
Not until you know EXACTLY which ones and why. Learn about online marketing from the simple website you built for your consulting business... with accounting and credit card payments for $5.00 a month from Intuit... and a free blog from WordPress.

I wasn't thinking about particular order. I was just throwing them out there.

Personally, I'd put sweeping floors at McDonald's as #1. I really don't care WTF it is that he does, as long as he does it!

Is it wrong for me to have totally withdrawn into my shell over this? We can't talk about it. He gets mad at me for "not understanding", or not listening. I fed up with what I see as his selfishness and sense of entitlement. Why does he have to have the perfect job, while I'm walking dogs, managing a call center (BORING) and also working PT for another company as a virtual call center agent?

Any talk of how I'm feeling is turned around to how he feels about how I'm feeling or talk about how I shouldn't feel that way, or worse, talk about how he feels.

I don't want much to do with him emotionally, physically or intellectually. It's totally NON marriage builders.

Oh well.

Now that I've t/j'd my own thread....

I put them in priority order.

OH, a long-time friend took a job making $25,000 a year in an unheard-of sportswear company so he could be involved in the game. His salary was now up to $35,000 after 4 years. He proved his marketing skills, then pitched an idea for a totally new product line to one of the top managers who knew his work. That guy talked to the President and the VP of Manufacturing, they came back and gave him $25,000 to fund it. He did it in his house, where no word would leak out. Found a designer to sew up some prototypes. Got a weaving company to make a proprietary signature cloth. Copyrighted and trademarked all of it. Put them on local teams. Sold them to pro team, then to college teams. Sales went to $400,000,000 in 10 years. Do you think he cares what anyone thinks about how he started out?

---- from Walter Williams ---------
Side note: Sam Walton's first real job was a JC Penney, where he learned how a proper retail business is run. His manager wanted to let him go, but he asked to be put on straight commission in another area, and promptly quadrupled his income.

Retread:

You making excellent suggestions....

But you making them to the wrong person.

OH's H has determined that he is comfortable with the status quo.

Which is killing OH. If the Love Bank has been held up at gunpoint, and the everything has been taken away, even the calculators, it pretty hard for her to "ask" him to follow your plan.

It all makes sense to us. Becasue we are not depressed, or locked in the downward spiral. Mr OH is. And until HE decides to do something, here we sit.

Keep looking OH. The economy is turning a corner. Your stuck in one of the places it has been impacted worse, but there is opportunity.

LG

Now that's an oxymoron...

Is he not working at all? What does he do all day? Hopefully he's at least cooking, cleaning, etc. Do any of his hobbies (golf, cars, fishing, drinking with buddies) cost money? If so, put his @$$ on an allowance like a child. It sounds like financial support is a high EN for you, and he isn't interested in providing it. Not good.

Agreed.

Retread, LG said exactly what I've been trying to say when I keep telling you that you are preaching to the choir.

All I can do is to get myself into a better paying job. And that means going back into a discipline that I know well and where I have experience and marketable skills. Unfortunately, it's going to mean giving up a lot of my schedule flexibility in the job I have now, where I have would happily remain trading off a larger salary for flexibility and the ability to be home more...but I can't depend on my husband for income and this job doesn't pay enough.

So the job I will most likely take, if I'm offered it, entails a lot of travel and long hours. But it's well into the six figures and almost double what I'm making now. I will be able to afford to pay all the bills without juggling, PLUS have $$$ leftover for paying down medical bills and other bills that have climbed. And maybe I can take the kids on a vacation or do something fun on the weekends.

This quote probably sums him up:


I really don't think he WANTS to sit at home and leech off my (very small) salary. On the other hand, he's got an issue with self-image and entitlement which is preventing him from just sucking it up and doing anything to bring in $$$ in order to help support his family.

I know this isn't job related, and I think I may have said it before, but my 2nd day in the hospital a couple of months ago, after I had rambled for nearly an hour about my feelings, my lack of feelings, anaologies about the why of my feelings....the therapist basically said, "Are you done wallowing and ready to make some changes?" I mean, he didn't say those words, but his point was that if I wanted to feel differently, then I would do differently, and if I wasn't going to do differently, I must not really want to feel differently. What a change THAT was from the cry and talk on the couch methodology.

When I was applying for a grant for national Board teacher certification, I had to write an essay about my teaching. I kept sending it to a teacher friend of mine who was already certified. It had some great, heartfelt writing in it, but she kept sending it back with parts highlighted, saying "So what?" She finally told me to quit writing what I'd like to do and just tell them what I was doing.

These two things have made an impact on me. I am a feeler, so right brain I lean when I walk. I could fill this thread will wafting words. But who really gives a crap? It's all about the doing, at least when it comes to some things. Yeah, I'm preaching to the choir too. But this whole "he/she is so depressed that they are just inert and cannot move forward" thing, I have realized, is really more about WILL not move forward. Is there a plan B for spousal inertia??

Here's something I don't get. I've asked H to put up flyers around saying he can paint, do carpentry, small jobs, whatever. That got met with the usual 'meh' response. More $LB withdrawals.

Anyway, my oldest came home from college flat broke (what else is new..LOL) because his job there ended about 2 weeks ago. He has a job lined up for the summer up at a summer camp. I'm not nuts about him being a counselor again, because the pay isn't great and he could make more money lifeguarding here, but he landed a pre-season job there that pays great money for the manual labor of getting the campgrounds ready. So he'll make really great money for the next month...but he doesn't go up there until 5/25.

My younger son has been very industrious, putting up flyers for yard work, attic/garage cleaning & organizing, etc. He landed a job with someone next town over who has an incredible amount of landscaping work and hauling/organizing. Son is busy during the week with school and lacrosse and there's usually a practice or sometimes a special tourney game on at least one weekend day. So he's been working 6-8 hours the other day and making very decent money for a 15 year old boy.

This woman has so much work, at one point I suggested to my husband that he talk to her about doing some of the heavier stuff...big equipment stuff, or anything. Again, not much response.

So older son comes home from college and asks younger son if he could call this woman and see if she's got some work for him (older son) during the week, when younger son is in school. Younger son doesn't mind 'sharing' his job. So they work it out.

Older son came home with $100 in cash today. (YAY!) And more hours lined up. Whatever he can have in his pocket by the time he leaves for camp, is great...then he won't have to take an advance on his camp salary and he'll have a tidy sum of money with which to head back to school.

Anyway, H sees this and says "hmmm..maybe I should give her a call".

Ok, I don't care WHAT he does as long as it means some $$$. But c'mon. I feel... I don't know what I feel!

No, I do know what I feel. I feel annoyed that he won't take the extra effort, go the extra mile to put up flyers around the neighborhood, etc, but if something falls directly into his lap like this...

The best way to get over depression is to get moving...literally.
Get busy. Exercise. Make the blood flow. Wash out those depressing brain chemicals. Generate the hormones and enzymes which make you feel good, and you will do more.

As for high-end jobs....
There aren't that many. It's a pyramid.
You don't get a job as Director of IT, or VP of Engineering unless you have already done all the jobs that involves. So how do you get the experience?

Luck. That's right, you have to be in the right place at the right time, for the opportunity to present itself.

Desire. You have to want it. Most people don't want more responsibility. They will step away from it like it was fire. No one gets it who doesn't ask for it.

Ability. You have to have already been there, demonstrating that you will take on new roles, and deliver. When the big guy leaves, or dies, or gets sick, or dies, and the top guys are looking around for someone, you have to be there.

I get all this Retread.

Okay, Retread just brought exercise into this. I'm out!

(the treadmill is staring at me........)

OurHouse,
I thought about the daily steps of job hunting that I wrote above.

Someone who is qualified for a skilled job, or management job should certainly look for those every day, but only a few of them. If they really are qualified to move up to the next level, they should carefully assess what positions they would like, and for what positions an employer might see them as being qualified. Broaden your horizons beyond your narrow wants to your skills. The fact is, though, that most of these jobs are discovered by personal contact. You have to network, and to do that, you have to have friends out their working. If you don't have friends out there looking out for you, ask yourself why not, and start fixing it by being a friend.

If you are working, you only have time to do one of these a day, maximum.

If you are not working, you need to not pursue more than a few of these a week, and don't spend more than 2 hours a day on it. Spend another 4 hours searching for jobs at the level you just left, and 4 hours trying to find anything. The goal should be to find a part-time job that pays enough to cover the bills but leave you time to search for a career job, and do interviews.

OH,
How is the new job thing working out for you?

Things seem to be fairly promising for her. Two or three good nibbles. Process slowed due to being under the weather, but once that clears, she should be back in the hunt!

TBC