Since the old "rant" thread was... ahem... locked, I guess I have to start a new one because I have a rant and it's a doosey.
Rant/
It is very frustrating when a poster is told six ways to Sunday the MB methods for fighting the battle caused by either their own adultery or their WS' adultery to only have them spend six pages explaining why they can't or dancing around questions they are asked.
Lately it seems we have a lot of WS coming on board and I guess that's what's trying my patience.
First, it is hard (for me) to post to a WS because I have to temper down what I REALLY want to say!
Second, to hear the and the , and
Third, to have another WS (note: not FWS) come on a thread and try to "support" a fellow WS is sometimes more than I can take.
Come to think of it, it's just as irritating when it happens to a BS too-- except in those cases I have some sympathy. I KNOW this is just a message board, but this subject is dear to my heart and I'm passionate about it. I don't lose sleep over it, but it can't be helping my blood pressure.
Anyway, I've posted this here today to keep myself from doing harm to anyone.
Since the old "rant" thread was... ahem... locked, I guess I have to start a new one because I have a rant and it's a doosey.
Rant/
It is very frustrating when a poster is told six ways to Sunday the MB methods for fighting the battle caused by either their own adultery or their WS' adultery to only have them spend six pages explaining why they can't or dancing around questions they are asked.
Lately it seems we have a lot of WS coming on board and I guess that's what's trying my patience.
First, it is hard (for me) to post to a WS because I have to temper down what I REALLY want to say!
Second, to hear the and the , and
Third, to have another WS (note: not FWS) come on a thread and try to "support" a fellow WS is sometimes more than I can take.
Come to think of it, it's just as irritating when it happens to a BS too-- except in those cases I have some sympathy. I KNOW this is just a message board, but this subject is dear to my heart and I'm passionate about it. I don't lose sleep over it, but it can't be helping my blood pressure.
Anyway, I've posted this here today to keep myself from doing harm to anyone.
Thanks for listening.
/Rant
It all makes me so thankful for you vets. I know it is very important for me to read and learn and post and help when I can but it triggers the heck out of me to read some of this. The cross support really bothers me. I know GM felt that way himself, what about his feelings? LOL.
I guess I just wanted to thank you for the chance to say this out loud because it can be so hard but still important if you really want to understand how this all works. It seems to have hit all at once. Maybe that is usual and I have stayed away from it before.
You all are so smart and your dedication to helping others is so outstanding. To see someone bash you all for the time and care you put into this just makes me cringe. From my perspective, I would never have made it through all of this without you all and GM would never have understood any of it. I owe you all but boy is it hard to go through this learning curve without losing your mind!
Am I permitted to respond to this since I am the WS trying to support WS?
Okay, I'm going to respond.....................................
I'd rather be on someone else's thread "trying to help" rather than dealing with my own thread (which gives me a headache). But it looks like I'm not "helping".
Vets, I apologize to you all for giving you so much "work" in the last couple of days. I thought I had valid points. But being forced back onto my own thread ...I do see vividly that I have plenty of work to do there.
Its nice to vent here, but cmon' when BS and WS come on here and just whine not listening to any advice, not answering questions, or are scared off because they disagree with the MB principles. I know immidiatley that their marriage is over.
I know from experience what these people go through, every one here has experience and its what makes us the unwanted club. If you can't listen to the experienced people who have fought hard for their marriage, and did their best to recover in their own way; maybe you deserve to have a rough divorce and all the pain that goes with it.
So many people that come here half do it then leave. Just do it and stick to it, we know what we are talking about because we live it.
Ahhhh I been missing the Rants thread. Thank you for starting it again.
As an observation... I've noticed a LOT more new people posting recently than in the past. Particularly Waywards.
I think Pep's lurker's post is working. This is a good thing - more people getting help. The bad is the FOG coefficient starts to go way up - leading to frustration and a general sense of .
As such - a rants thread is eminently necessary to clear the senses and restore sanity.
Its nice to vent here, but cmon' when BS and WS come on here and just whine not listening to any advice, not answering questions, or are scared off because they disagree with the MB principles. I know immidiatley that their marriage is over.
I know from experience what these people go through, every one here has experience and its what makes us the unwanted club. If you can't listen to the experienced people who have fought hard for their marriage, and did their best to recover in their own way; maybe you deserve to have a rough divorce and all the pain that goes with it.
So many people that come here half do it then leave. Just do it and stick to it, we know what we are talking about because we live it.
I remember as a newcomer getting hit by 2x4s. I was terrified of catwoman who I know now was right. I whined, I had excuses but I did come around. Not perfect but I am learning so much here still even though to date my M was never restored. This site is for me and it helps to come here and it has made me a better person.
I haven't posted in a while..just been hiding in the shadows, but reading A LOT. Read Mark's thread on memories..went back and reread my own thread..read every bit of a couple of other threads started by waywards. They are frustrating, but I have also found them to be helpful in understanding the insanity of a wayward mind. Has helped me understand a few more things about my WH (hopefully FWH..he's reading SAA!!) Just wanted to say I hear ya...I agree with ya...but just like the A's that we try to survive and recover from, sometimes there's some good stuff hidden amongst all the bad stuff. Thank you, vets, for continuing to try to help us newbies..even when some of us don't seem to want it.
I'd rather be on someone else's thread "trying to help" rather than dealing with my own thread (which gives me a headache). But it looks like I'm not "helping".
See, when i arrived here 9 years ago, the 2x4s went exclusively to the BETRAYED SPOUSES - the wayward fogbabblers had the run of the joint. The lunatics were running the asylum.
See, when i arrived here 9 years ago, the 2x4s went exclusively to the BETRAYED SPOUSES - the wayward fogbabblers had the run of the joint. The lunatics were running the asylum.
Its nice to vent here, but cmon' when BS and WS come on here and just whine not listening to any advice, not answering questions, or are scared off because they disagree with the MB principles. I know immidiatley that their marriage is over.
I know from experience what these people go through, every one here has experience and its what makes us the unwanted club. If you can't listen to the experienced people who have fought hard for their marriage, and did their best to recover in their own way; maybe you deserve to have a rough divorce and all the pain that goes with it.
So many people that come here half do it then leave. Just do it and stick to it, we know what we are talking about because we live it.
I remember as a newcomer getting hit by 2x4s. I was terrified of catwoman who I know now was right. I whined, I had excuses but I did come around. Not perfect but I am learning so much here still even though to date my M was never restored. This site is for me and it helps to come here and it has made me a better person.
Ok so it wasn't a true rant.
My main concern are for people like YEG and tlcanuck (recently), and others. They had good opportunities to R their marriages, but I guess just wanted to come here, cry on some shoulders and leave. Current WS are just a given, they are foggy, and things just seem to get lost.
Are there many recent WS that have got the jist quite quickly and have stuck around?
I wish there was a way of producing statistics about posters helped and reformed, posters that ran away and how long it took to get the message. Percentage of harsh 2x4 and percentage of gentle and intelligently put 2x4 and which works with which posters...
STs analytical mind temporarily in overdrive.
I know for me it was the very simple "do this", backed up with the intelligently put 2x4 and explanation of what was going oninmy head that had the biggest affect on Wayward me.
Are there many recent WS that have got the jist quite quickly and have stuck around?
A bigger concern to me would be the BETRAYED SPOUSES. They are the victims. A WS who is "run off" by a much needed 2x4 wasn't serious anyway so who cares? I sure don't. If they get a 2x4 it was because they were foggy. If they were serious about recovering their marriage and making amends to their victims, wild horses couldn't run them off.
Of course. Which is why it is important to take a 2x4 to their foggy heads. They either wake up or if they are not serious, they run. A good outcome either way.
But what would be the point of your exercise? I don't get your point.
No point -I just like looking for patterns in things - maybe if it happened a point would become apparent. It's the science geek in me.
But have you carried that to its logical conclusion? Is the point of the exercise to keep a WS here at all costs? To dictate the posts of board members? What exactly?
Its not realistic to imagine that a study could record such subjective measures as "harsh" or "gentle" or "intelligent." Since that means different things to different people it would be an impossible objective.
I have read a few posts where it says 'don't forget about WS feelings. They are going through guilt, and shame and blah, blah, blah!!!' Give me a break! I'm sorry I know I'm a newbie, but I have been reading everything on this site. No WS can feel the slightest amount of pain us BS feel! EVER! Maybe because my sitch is so new I will understand the WS feelings more as time passes. The hurt, pain, anger, sadness...... I could go on and on because it seems never ending. The first feelings my WS had? RELIEF!!! What?!!? Yes, relief that the A was over, no more hiding etc. but, of course, he had tremendous guilt over what he had done to his family, blech!
How about those who expect others to be guided through the most difficult period in their lives relying solely on advice from an anonymous internet message board?
How about those who expect others to be guided through the most difficult period in their lives relying solely on advice from an anonymous internet message board?
Here is my rant. Why go to an anonymous message board and ASK FOR ADVICE and then not take it?
An old man turned ninety-eight He won the lottery and died the next day It's a black fly in your Chardonnay It's a death row pardon two minutes too late Isn't it ironic Don't you think?
It's like rain on your weddin' day It's a free ride when you've already paid It's the good advice that you just didn't take And who would've thought, it figures
Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids goodbye He waited his whole damn life to take that flight And as the plane crashed down he thought Well, isn't this nice And isn't it ironic Don't you think?
It's like rain on your weddin' day It's a free ride when you've already paid It's the good advice that you just didn't take And who would've thought, it figures
Well life has a funny way of sneakin' up on you When you think everything's okay and everything's goin' right, right And life has a funny way nobody helpin' you out when You think everyhing's gone wrong and everything blows up In your face
A traffic jam when you're already late A no smoking sign on your cigarette break It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife It's meetin' the man of my dreams And then meetin' his beautiful wife, umm And isn't it ironic Don't you think? A little too ironic And yeah, I really do think
It's like rain on your weddin' day It's a free ride when you've already paid It's the good advice that you just didn't take And who would've thought, it figures
And well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you And life has a funny, funny way of helpin' you out Helpin' you out
How about those who expect others to be guided through the most difficult period in their lives relying solely on advice from an anonymous internet message board?
p.s. Dr Harley is not anonymous. He is a licensed clinical psychologist and the author of 12 books. He has the most successful marriage building program in the business. I know of no other than can even come close. Other marriage counselors [even those from Retrouville] come to HIS seminar for their own marriages.
If the said posters are using his advice, it is much more than "advice from an anonymous internet message board.." It is advice given by Dr Harley.
How about those who expect others to be guided through the most difficult period in their lives relying solely on advice from an anonymous internet message board?
p.s. Dr Harley is not anonymous. He is a licensed clinical psychologist and the author of 12 books. If the said posters are using his advice, it is much more than "advice from an anonymous internet message board.." It is advice given by Dr Harley.
Schtoop, you answered your own rant in a post you made on your thread:
Originally Posted by schtoop
This has been a tremendous support when I have really no where else to turn.
yeah - but what are the percentages?? HOw many are serious, how many aren't. Equally, how many BS can hack the the prog and how many can't?
Maybe get a panel to adjudicate the harshness of a post?
IMVHO as a newbie (almost 3 months since Dday), I have to say that the harshness thing doesn't quite sit well with me. This situation, by its very nature, is HARSH. I have never felt this kind of pain or worked this hard for anything in my life! I feel like I am fighting for my life!! If a WS comes on here and feels they are judged too "harshly", so be it. How "harsh" do they think their BS views the actions of someone they trusted completely and implicitly who then took a huge crap on their marriage and everything they believed to be true? Now, do I see the pain in my H's eyes every time I look at him? Yes. Do I feel sorry for him? Sometimes, but that is the protector in me that hurts when someone I love hurts. However, I am being stripped of everything I knew of my life, piece by piece, day by day. I look in the mirror and see another woman looking back at me and I don't always recognize who she is. My life and my future are so up in the air right now, if I really let it get stuck in my brain, the fear will consume me. I think a great deal of what is wrong with our society in general is that we seem to be focused on making people feel "accepted" and "validated". Its just like when my boys played little league baseball - you got a trophy at the end of the season just for showing up. Everybody got one, regardless of performance. If you are gonna be rewarded no matter what, then what is the motivation for doing your best? I may be overstepping my boundaries by speaking my mind, but if you are a WS and you feel that you are being treated "harshly", baby, you brought it on yourself. We BS, on the other hand, would not have chosen to travel this path in a million years...but then we were not given a choice, were we?
Since this thread is about rants, my rant is about posting song lyrics that have no intellectual or spiritual depth. Most songs are written by those in the entertainment industry who have about as much depth as Beevus and [censored].
But you didn't answer my question. What is the point and how would you measure a subjective. And WHY?
The point would be to fill my need for statistics, the point would be, just cos I like to look at data and like I said it may reveal something - something that none of us had thought of - it might bring about a way to change the way things are done. It might help to have figures for those clueless waywards- just as more evidence to back up that the plan for recovery actually works.
Quote
Btw, I believe we do have a standard in place to judge posts and that is called the TERMS OF SERVICE. It is upheld by a panel of moderators.
I don't mean to moderate - but to appraise/score on a scale of gentle to harsh.
[I may be overstepping my boundaries by speaking my mind, but if you are a WS and you feel that you are being treated "harshly", baby, you brought it on yourself. We BS, on the other hand, would not have chosen to travel this path in a million years...but then we were not given a choice, were we?
AGREE 100%! It is like watching the rapist cry because the cops handled him a little too roughly after he just raped a 12 yr old girl. Sorry, but my sympathy is for the victim, not the perp.
The point would be to fill my need for statistics, the point would be, just cos I like to look at data and like I said it may reveal something - something that none of us had thought of - it might bring about a way to change the way things are done.
Here is a rant from a FWW directed at myself - I haven't made posting here and getting 2x4's enough of a priority recently. I haven't posted in quite awhile and I have missed the "harshness." It keeps me grounded and makes me want to work harder. Only foggy waywards run away from the harshness.
Another rant - I hate myself for what I have done to my BH. No matter how much I follow the MB principles, it seems that full recovery will never take place.
Maybe because people just can't take actual real ownership for their wrong decision and are unable to appraise and take a look at themselves from the outside.
They don't actually want to face that what they have done or are doing is wrong/ won't work/ is unlikely to work.
And all they really want is for someone to tell them that what they are/were doing is perfectly acceptable and justified.
And actually they weren't looking for advice in the first place - just sympathy and back up.
I posted this rant to WH yesterday after reading some news articles, but I think the sentiment still applies here.
"People just make such a big deal about fair treatment, but they refuse to follow their own guidelines Sometimes this conundrum makes me feel very hopeless"
Even being a newbie I have seen this happening here. "I will treat them better when they treat me better"
I get the whole pride involved, but M is not about pride, it is about Family and that is more important. Sometimes that means swallowing the harsh pill and stepping up to do what is right.
To me, what's ironic is that sometimes, some of the longest threads I see are debating some of the most simple concepts, with one poster. I'm amazed when I see a 20 page thread still trying to convince someone that NC is essential.
God bless the people for trying, but, for example, if NC as a requirement hasn't become clear to someone after say 2 pages, then I don't think anymore positioning, citing, analogies, or whatever is going to help.
On those, I wish the mods would just post one last time "NC is essential" and then lock the thread.
How in the world would you be able to establish this "harshness panel" you speak of? Everyone has a different opinion of what "harsh" is, no?
For instance, if you and I happened to be on said panel, I'm pretty certain that we would have judged the thread started last week in an effort to demonize a prominent poster here very differently, huh? I would have said "HARSH in the EXTREME", but you posted on that very thread, so I would guess that you would not have deemed it "harsh", right?
I'll humor you though, say you did get this "harshness panel" to agree that a particular poster or post was "harsh" - What would be the consequence for that? What if some people thought the consequence too harsh? Who would get to judge that? Would we then need to establish a "harshness committee" to judge the "harshness panel"?
I'll tell you a couple of things that I find ironic - (1) That the words to describe the behavior of waywards are being put under a microscope instead of looking at the actual behavior of waywards - Personally, I believe the behavior is far more harsh than any words used to describe it, and (2) That Alanis Morissette's song entitled "Isn't It Ironic" really has no actual examples of irony in it, rather is just a bunch of unfortunate circumstances strung together to a melody!
I'd have to say I'm impressed with the ability of some of the vets to come here day after day and post to so many different threads, and take an interest in so many who are struggling. At one point, I was actively following and posting to about 25 threads and some were just going in circles. So... I decided not to add any new threads and only focus on the ones I truly cared about and that I could tell the people were really in it for the long haul. That means I really am only posting regularly to about five or six threads. I just don't have the stamina to continue trying to support so many newcomers so I'm so happy that there are those of you who do (and you all know who I mean).
The following was written by Weaver. It's one of my favorite rants when "harshness" is, once again, the topic.
Quote
This board is full of people faced with the complete and utter devestation of their family and of the very core of their being.
They are being forced to make decisions while under extreme duress such as:
Do I go after the throat of the person I love more than life in court?
Do I wrench my children away from the parent they love so much in order to ensure that they are not subject to scumbag OM or OW?
Do I fight for custody, knowing my children will not understand why I must do this?
Is it in their best interest to fight for full custody? Will I hurt them worse?
Do I swallow my pride and take back the WS who ripped out our hearts and laughed the whole time, so my children are not subjected to what I am about to subject them to?
Do I financially ruin this person I loved so much and bore/fathered my children, to protect us?
Do I force myself to stop loving this person and move on with my life, knowing that they are destroying themselves and once I do I won't turn back.
Can you imagine having to make those kinds of decisions? Those going through your already over-loaded mind that is not quite functioning properly because you haven't slept or ate in weeks?
And then once the WS has a change of heart, the BS must stuff it all and heal the best way he can while
NEVER offending in anyway the WS, or the OM/OP?
You read this stuff all day long?
I am asking you, WHAT DIFFERENCE does it make what we say to an active WS? WHO GIVES A SH*T? If they are close to repentence, believe me they will be on their knees in shame, not stirring the pot.
If they come here while they are active and expect to get treated with respect, then they have more problems going on then just the fog.
I will not treat an ACTIVE WS the way I will treat others.
And if I did, how would that help to change their mindset?
If they get hit with both barrels here, it is just all that much sooner that the fog lifts.
It is just all that much easier that the BS has it during his Plan A.
The BS can't say what we can.
I love this rant.
I wanted to get this in before THIS thread gets locked.
We are harsh as hell when adultery is blatantly waved around like some great "love story".
Harsh?
Really?
Where are harsh police when the entire life of the betrayed spouse and the betrayed children is ripped from under them. Leaving them stunned and wounded?
Harsh?
Where are the harsh police when yet another betrayed spouse is diagnosed with a STD?
Come'on ..... Adultery is harsh, ugly, dangerous and hurts real people in real life.
Harsh? I don't consider myself harsh. I do appreciate the harshness of others !!!!!!!!! It saves me the trouble!!!!
I would just like to rant that I can't STAND Alanis Morrisett. Her voice is worse than nails on a chalkboard. I'd rather stick my finger in an electric pencil sharpened than listen to her whining. She was everywhere in high school and everyone just loved her. Ironic has to be the lamest song ever written.... The only irony being there are no ironies in the song.... Just more lameness..... Arrerggghhhhhh
See this is what happens when you allow a negative balance to build up in a love bank.... I'm sorry alanis, your account is deep in the red at Vibrissa Bank.
My interest is/was purely in the numbers, that is why I joined in here. Unfortunately I find it hard enough to get in UA time as it is, so I will not be able to go through posts and pickout OP position and compile anything - I was purely philosophising.
My interest is/was purely in the numbers, that is why I joined in here. Unfortunately I find it hard enough to get in UA time as it is, so I will not be able to go through posts and pickout OP position and compile anything - I was purely philosophising.
Would you like your harshness score delivered in metric units?
Here's my rant.....If I go to a doctor for high blood pressure, and he tells me to lose weight, I don't like that. It hurts my self-image. So do I try to spearhead legislation to have doctors stop talking about weight? Stupid. I A. Lose weight, or B. Find a more placating doctor.
If a WS comes here and doesn't like the fact that they are told: you made a terrible choice, confess, be honest No contact for life, get over yourself, be humble, stop obsessing over the man you rutted with...do we begin sensitivity training, or do we just keep telling the truth until they either get it or go away? Duh.
When we start trying to make people word things a certain way and taking the blame every time a wayward CHOOSES to stay in their fog....we have taken on a job that isn't ours. It is not our job to give sensitivity training or to coddle someone we have never met indefinitely.
And if I hear one more wayward say that an anonymous board should "plan A" them I will scream.
I guess the way we interpret the definition here is slightly different. this definition backs up what you say and what I say
oxford english dictionary says " mockery of the fitness of things" among other things; so the song fits pretty well with that.
I still don't see the point, ST...Have you forgotten that you have the option of posting what you consider "less harsh words" to any of these posters that you are concerned about? If you feel that what you deem as "harsh" posts aren't getting through, then by all means you are free to go post in a way that you feel will get through!
It sorta loses something for me to hear people complain about how a hole is being dug when there are ample shovels available for them to pick up and use in any way that they see fit, yanno?
For fun, here's a breakdown of the "irony" in Alanis' song~~~> Isn't it Ironic So it wasn't 100% devoid of irony, but it was dang close...
I would just like to rant that I can't STAND Alanis Morrisett. Her voice is worse than nails on a chalkboard. I'd rather stick my finger in an electric pencil sharpened than listen to her whining. She was everywhere in high school and everyone just loved her. Ironic has to be the lamest song ever written.... The only irony being there are no ironies in the song.... Just more lameness..... Arrerggghhhhhh
See this is what happens when you allow a negative balance to build up in a love bank.... I'm sorry alanis, your account is deep in the red at Vibrissa Bank.
Careful Vibrissa, just last week I got an email accusing me of being YOU [I took that as a huge compliment, btw] If we agree on any subject it's sure to confirm "the big conspiracy", yanno!!! You best take great care to disagree with me from now on, ya hear???
Careful Vibrissa, just last week I got an email accusing me of being YOU [I took that as a huge compliment, btw] If we agree on any subject it's sure to confirm "the big conspiracy", yanno!!! You best take great care to disagree with me from now on, ya hear???
Mrs. W
I saw the post you made and didn't get to respond about how flattered I was to even be considered you. Very high compliment if you ask me.
And if it's a choice between liking Alanis, and being you - I'll be you anyday!
Another rant....I first found MB five or six years ago, didn't join, but read some, and bought HNHN. I came back for a short and shameful stint when trying to confess my A. Still read...SAA, HNHN again, etc. Summer of 09 I came again, this time to the boards, read FILSIL. Have participated and have been helped so much by so many.
I would never at this point consider myself a vet. I have much to learn, grasshopper
So when someone comes on with a self-aggrandizing aura and attempts to out-intellectualize vets and long term members... I don't know whether to laugh or spit. I could throw out as well that I am a member of MENSA. Big fat deal. It doesn't prevent me from being imperfect or needing help with my M. So....anyway. That's my hormonal 2 cents for the day. Don't mess with a hormonal bipolar woman with a high IQ and the ability to do verbal gymnastics with the best of 'em. nya!
Of course I am kidding....I am only the THIRD smartest person I know, so I do have some humility. har har
Another rant....I first found MB five or six years ago, didn't join, but read some, and bought HNHN. I came back for a short and shameful stint when trying to confess my A. Still read...SAA, HNHN again, etc. Summer of 09 I came again, this time to the boards, read FILSIL. Have participated and have been helped so much by so many.
I would never at this point consider myself a vet. I have much to learn, grasshopper
So when someone comes on with a self-aggrandizing aura and attempts to out-intellectualize vets and long term members... I don't know whether to laugh or spit. I could throw out as well that I am a member of MENSA. Big fat deal. It doesn't prevent me from being imperfect or needing help with my M. So....anyway. That's my hormonal 2 cents for the day. Don't mess with a hormonal bipolar woman with a high IQ and the ability to do verbal gymnastics with the best of 'em. nya!
Of course I am kidding....I am only the THIRD smartest person I know, so I do have some humility. har har
Well I, for one, seek out your posts Luri...They are some of the best, imo!
You should start using the line our DD10 uses after singing her own praises: "I am the VERY BEST at modesty!"
I would just like to rant that I can't STAND Alanis Morrisett. Her voice is worse than nails on a chalkboard. I'd rather stick my finger in an electric pencil sharpened than listen to her whining. She was everywhere in high school and everyone just loved her. Ironic has to be the lamest song ever written.... The only irony being there are no ironies in the song.... Just more lameness..... Arrerggghhhhhh
See this is what happens when you allow a negative balance to build up in a love bank.... I'm sorry alanis, your account is deep in the red at Vibrissa Bank.
I don't see how anyone can continue to dislike her after that. lol
I don't see how anyone can continue to dislike her after that. lol
*begin recording* We're sorry the Vibrissa Bank Love Deposit Department is temporarily out of service due to too many withdrawals by one customer (with an annoying voice) within a 6 hour period. Do not be alarmed. We are fully insured by the Bank of Mr. Vibrissa and should be back up and running shortly. We appreciate your business and have a nice day. *end recording*
I don't know that to be true for certain but it could be predicted based on Dr Harley's research...
When a BS stops trying to LEVERAGE the WS into changing his/her actions and starts following the MB PLANS A and B, reconciliation odds skyrocket since most affairs implode within two years of confrontation.
When a BS stops trying to LEVERAGE the WS into changing his/her actions and starts following the MB PLANS A and B, reconciliation odds skyrocket since most affairs implode within two years of confrontation.
Mark
Dude's wife's affair was already over when he first posted here. He became a WS himself while posting here; he had a revenge affair. He then divorced his wife and two kids, "partied like a rock star" and then started dating his wife again. He felt much less unhappy about her affair once he had had his own. He all but recommend RA's to all and sundry.
The last time he was here they had not remarried, and he claimed that the new dating arrangement was excellent. He didn't seem to think that his kids had suffered from the RA, divorce and reconciliation.
My rant is why can't a rant simply be just that, a rant for cryin' out loud, this is a rant thread.
I don't understand why rants are challenged or questioned, again they are rants, they are an opportunity to vent, ask or make statements of whatever is causing us to want to rip our hair out.
To me a rant is individual, what gnaws at me may not be the same for someone else, so what.
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
WHAT HAPPENED TO "OUR HOUSE"?
What has that got to do with this thread?
Sugarcane, someone asked where Dude was and people replied. It's no secret that Dude was likely banned, is it a secret that OH is too?
That's another rant of mine ....... secrecy and dishonesty. I've had enough of that to last me a lifetime.
My rant for today is, WHY DO I MISS ALL THE FUN????? I had a fun day out with my RL friends and kiddos. Let the kiddos play on the computer and then I come on here and see the fun is all done. WAHHH
All I can say is thanks. It must get frustrating to read the newbie WS posts and have to start at square one with their clueless and fog-filled dissembling and insane justifications and defensiveness. Just know that your help is more valuable than you can ever know. I take that back. You DO know, or you would not do it.
I don't understand why rants are challenged or questioned, again they are rants, they are an opportunity to vent, ask or make statements of whatever is causing us to want to rip our hair out.
But it's okay for you to challenge or question my response here?
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
WHAT HAPPENED TO "OUR HOUSE"?
What has that got to do with this thread?
Originally Posted by Vittoria
Sugarcane, someone asked where Dude was and people replied. It's no secret that Dude was likely banned, is it a secret that OH is too?
Vitt, you are missing the craftiness involved in the placing of that question in this thread.
Someone here mentioned "stirring things up". That is being done quite a lot on this thread.
But it's okay for you to challenge or question my response here?
Sugarcane, I had to chuckle, cuz you were right. I did question your questioning of the post. I did, what I was ranting about! ( and it could go on and on, back and forth, back and forth )
Originally Posted by SC
Vitt, you are missing the craftiness involved in the placing of that question in this thread. Someone here mentioned "stirring things up". That is being done quite a lot on this thread.
okay this one, I am missing the craftiness SC. I simply saw someone ask about a poster who used to post quite a bit, and now isn't.
Posters ask about other posters, a lot. I've done it. We wonder where they are, are they okay .....
Greenmile, I have many thanks too. I thank MB for rescuing my M from an A, and I thank many of the posters here for guiding me and supporting me through personal R. Snails pace maybe, but the turtle won the race!
Sugarcane, I had to chuckle, cuz you were right. I did question your questioning of the post. I did, what I was ranting about! ( and it could go on and on, back and forth, back and forth )
I hate waywards. There are absolutely no words in the English language to describe their vile, hateful, destructive abuse. The selfishness, the ugliness, it is unreal. It is horrible, ugly and evil.
There is little worse than destroying a family. Than emotionally raping the ones you purport to love.
I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.
Those of you that have been here for years - I don't see how you do it, coming here every day where there is so much pain, despair and loss. Where you see, every day - the ugliness one person can do to another. It's too much.
The posters who get banned...then come back and post under other names...like they won't be caught.
AND.....posters who have been banned....but will email members and post by "proxy"...which has happened in the past.
AND....posters who have been banned...but will email members with vile, hateful stuff. Anyone that has been banned and continues to attempt contact with the board...well...one word... ISSUES!
ALSO....active members that continue to post under aliases. That tells me that they are dishonest...and there should be a list of those people that are attempting deceptive practices.
I can't rant about this, but I'd just like to say that I have high regard for genuine former waywards, though. One of my favourite husbands is a former wayward!
My rant is that people leave their faith, become wayward, try to clean up after their waywardness, but hold on to that speck of pride that says they're too "mature", "wise", "above", "conscious", etc. to return to their faith. Then their children start to follow their wayward example and leave their faith and then they rant and scream about how unfair those wayward consequences are [to their children]. They can't tell me that their lack of relationship to God hasn't hurt their children!!
Sins of the fathers/mothers visiting upon the heads of the children are PAINFUL! Deal with it honestly and get back to your faith! Full repentance, not just partial repentance is needed to recover from developing and nurturing a wayward heart!
Drama Queens/King Babies who want to stay in victim mode and suck all of our emotional support because life is so UNFAIR but they won't get up and DO SOMETHING!!!!!
Drama Queens/King Babies who want to stay in victim mode and suck all of our emotional support because life is so UNFAIR but they won't get up and DO SOMETHING!!!!!
Yeah, I have to stop posting to these types because the victim mentality drives me bonkers.
Makes me respect and admire all the BSs in Plan A/Plan B...who are proactively trying to better themselves and work the plans despite their worlds being ripped apart, their needs not getting met, etc...all the more.
I hate waywards. There are absolutely no words in the English language to describe their vile, hateful, destructive abuse. The selfishness, the ugliness, it is unreal. It is horrible, ugly and evil.
There is little worse than destroying a family. Than emotionally raping the ones you purport to love.
I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.
Waywards suck
I'm suggesting to the MB website designers that they put this post on the registration page. It only seems fair.
Enough.
There is vileness out there -- infants shaken to death, toddlers whose feet have been held in boiling water for wetting the bed, 11 year old girls raped by their fathers, brothers, stepfathers, or all of the above and giving birth, young women duped into sexual traffic, a 9 year old boy with 2 unset fractures of his arms and cigaret burns on his back for crying about the pain, a 4 year old girl raped vaginally and anally with a Lego penis that her rapist helped her construct, and I am not making any of that up.
I'm an actual human being who made a bad decision. But I am not vile nor am I evil. I know vile and evil. I wish I didn't but I do.
I'm an actual human being who made a bad decision. But I am not vile nor am I evil. I know vile and evil. I wish I didn't but I do.
Yes, we know all about evil. Dr Harley discusses it here:
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
After having counseled thousands of couples with hundreds of marital conflicts, I am completely convinced that a spouse's unfaithfulness is the most painful experience that can be inflicted in marriage. Those I've counseled who have had the tragic misfortune of having experienced rape, physical abuse, sexual abuse of their children, and infidelity have consistently reported to me that their spouse's unfaithfulness was their very worst experience. To be convinced of the devastating impact of infidelity, you only need to go through it once.
Some of Dr Harley's posts to members on the weekend forum:
written to a WH:
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Since you've had an affair, I would imagine that your wife is very emotionally defensive about the subject. It's the worst experience of her life -- worse than the loss of her son five years ago. Can you imagine anything being that bad? Well, you did it to her, and she is suffering as a result. It's all she can do to remain rational. If she were to express herself emotionally at this point, she would probably be expressing deep feelings of hopelessness and catastrophic loss. By trying to be rational, she is able to focus on the practical side of the issue.
"We regard infidelity as the worst offense in marriage. More damaging than physical abuse. And when a couple goes through a period of time when their relationship is broken, and they are not meeting each other's emotional needs, infidelity is very common. Granted, we can even patch these marriages together when the incentive to reconcile (children) is present. But it would be much easier and much less painful if you and your husband never had to go through it.
An affair is devastating to a betrayed spouse. It�s one of the most painful experiences that he or she could ever endure. In fact, most betrayed spouses cannot think of a single tragedy that is worse for them than the affair. Consider these examples (names have been changed to protect their identity)
* Nancy's father was murdered, her mother died of a very aggressive cancer in the same year. Both were very close to Nancy, and their sudden deaths were devastating to her. But she reported that the pain she suffered from her husband's affair was far more devastating.
* Cindy had been sexually molested by her father in her early teens. Yet her husband's one-year affair with a woman he met while away on business created far more trauma for her than her father's irresponsible behavior.
* Julie was raped by a stranger when she attended college. She told us that the rape paled in comparison to her struggle with her husband's two year affair with a female co worker.
* Robin was gang raped when she was twenty three. She reported that her husband�s one year affair with a woman he met at a local bar was much more difficult to overcome than the physical and emotional damage from the rape.
* Chad's six year old son died in a backyard accident. He said the pain he suffered from his wife's affair with a neighbor was far greater than the pain from his son's tragic death.
* Sylvia's younger sister was raped and murdered by a stranger when Sylvia was twenty one. But her husband's five month affair with a co-worker caused her to suffer more than the brutal death of her younger sister, whom she cared for deeply.
These are just a few of the testimonials that we have recorded when counseling victims of infidelity at the Marriage Builders Counseling Center. Scores of others have told me the same thing. A spouse's affair is the just about the worst experience in anyone's life.
I'm an actual human being who made a bad decision. But I am not vile nor am I evil. I know vile and evil. I wish I didn't but I do.
So yes, you were evil and you were vile when you committed adultery. Adultery is evil and vile so the folks who commit said acts are evil by defintion because we are judged by our ACTIONS, not by the lies we tell ourselves to justify our wrongdoing.
Recovery begins when honesty begins; keep that in mind. Facing the truth is step one.
the folks who commit said acts are evil by defintion because we are judged by our ACTIONS,
Sorry Mel, I'm just not buying it. I am not evil by definition. I do a lot of very, very good things. I may have done something evil but that doesn't define me any more than all the very good things I have done define me.
I'm a human being who made a bad mistake and I am doing what I can to rectify that which is all I can do.
I thought AA taught you to love the person, but hate the disease?
I am neither evil nor vile nor am I good or perfect.
And this is a stupid conversation. I feel like I am in the land of religious zealots who in their quest for converts focus solely on sin and punishment, which play on fear and self loathing, and leave out redemption and hope.
the folks who commit said acts are evil by defintion because we are judged by our ACTIONS,
Sorry Mel, I'm just not buying it. I am not evil by definition. I do a lot of very, very good things. I may have done something evil but that doesn't define me any more than all the very good things I have done define me.
The same could be said about Hitler. He was not evil by definition and did alot of good things. He may have done something evil but that doesn't define him any more than all the very good things he did.
He was a human being who made a bad mistake.
Quote
I thought AA taught you to love the person, but hate the disease?
They taught us to be HONEST, not to lie and say we are "good people" when we know the truth is otherwise. Unless a person is honest, they can't recover.
Quote
And this is a stupid conversation. I feel like I am in the land of religious zealots who in their quest for converts focus solely on sin and punishment,
You are in the land of foggy denials. Keep in mind that we are recovered.............you are not.
Quote
I am a redemption and hope kind of chick.
Me too! But in order to redeem yourself, you have to get honest. You haven't even taken that first step.
Lets talk about absurd, SW, and look at the dictionary definitions of vile and evil and see if your denials make sense! Shall we?
Main Entry: vile Pronunciation: \ˈvī(-ə)l\ Function: adjective Inflected Form(s): vil�er \ˈvī-lər\; vil�est \-ləst\ Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French vil, from Latin vilis Date: 14th century 1 a : morally despicable or abhorrent <nothing is so vile as intellectual dishonesty> b : physically repulsive : foul <a vile slum> 2 : of little worth or account : common; also : mean 3 : tending to degrade <vile employments> 4 : disgustingly or utterly bad : obnoxious, contemptible <vile weather> <had a vile temper> here
Looks like a perfect fit to me!
Now lets look at the definition of evil:
e�vil l/ Show Spelled[ee-vuhl] Show IPA �adjective 1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life. 2. harmful; injurious: evil laws. 3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days. 4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation. 5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
I am going to have to say that your dispute is with the English language, rather than Vibrissa because her definition of waywards is very accurate according to these dictionary definitions.
Shall we dispute these word definitions to Websters Dictionary and ask them to change them up a bit?
You are using your brain too much, as is your habit, like it was mine, and you are involved in defending yourself. That is not your problem. The problem right now, as it is with all waywards, is an illness of the heart. It cannot be defended or rationalized, nor can your actions in your marriage, no matter the extent of any grievances you may be holding onto. Mel is trying to get to the crux of the matter. You are in two different universes. When the twain meets, you will find your self, and you will turn to Mel for wisdom. Abandon your defenses. That would be my advice, for whatever it is worth.
Unless, of course, saddestwife, you are telling us that your adultery was not "morally despicable or abhorrent" [vile] OR "morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked" [evil]?
Was it a super special, NICE kind of adultery? Are you different?
Sure it was. My A was all of the above and more. Doesn't make me evil. Makes me a human being who made a decision that was evil and am doing the best I can to rectify it.
Maybe I'm way off on my assessment of where an A fits on the moral spectrum of evil -- personally, I think the guy who helped the four year old make a Lego penis and then raped her anally and vaginally with it is in a different league than me but I gather you folks disagree -- but anyone who compares an A to the systematic slaughter of 6 million innocent people is WAY more way off than I am.
I'm not defending myself. To compare me to Hitler is on its face stupid. I don't need to defend myself against stupid.
You say I don't get it? Maybe you are right. I don't think so, but I am allowing for the possibility. But you don't get it either. WS's are people too. And you are so intent on your conversion mission that I am reasonably certain your are driving them off in droves. I have a life size picture of some WW reading this thread seeing me compared to Hitler and then thinking, "wow, I can't wait to get on that forum because those people want to help me."
And remember, when you drive her off, you subject her BH to that much more pain.
I'm not against 2X4's or harshness -- those help. But there is a baseline level of courtesy and consideration that every person should be granted. Fall below that -- and you often do -- and they disappear.
And being compared to Hitler is way, way, way below that baseline.
I hate waywards. There are absolutely no words in the English language to describe their vile, hateful, destructive abuse. The selfishness, the ugliness, it is unreal. It is horrible, ugly and evil.
There is little worse than destroying a family. Than emotionally raping the ones you purport to love.
I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.
Waywards suck
I'm suggesting to the MB website designers that they put this post on the registration page. It only seems fair.
Enough.
There is vileness out there -- infants shaken to death, toddlers whose feet have been held in boiling water for wetting the bed, 11 year old girls raped by their fathers, brothers, stepfathers, or all of the above and giving birth, young women duped into sexual traffic, a 9 year old boy with 2 unset fractures of his arms and cigaret burns on his back for crying about the pain, a 4 year old girl raped vaginally and anally with a Lego penis that her rapist helped her construct, and I am not making any of that up.
I'm an actual human being who made a bad decision. But I am not vile nor am I evil. I know vile and evil. I wish I didn't but I do.
In the immortal words of princessmeggy, I'm out.
Enough.
Saddest wife,
If a day should come when you are hurt, broken and bleeding, you go seek help from people who understand what it feels like to be a victim of what you endured, and you express this feeling of anger and outrage because you are in pain..
Well, I do hope some one very much like the perpetrator tells you that what you feel is irrelevant in some way because there are others out there who have it worse.
I hope you can take comfort in knowing that, that it somehow stops the pain within.
If should such a day come; let me know how it goes for you, OK?
I'm not defending myself. To compare me to Hitler is on its face stupid. I don't need to defend myself against stupid.
What is stupid is your absurd argument that you weren't evil or vile when you were committing adultery. Of course the Hitler argument looks ridiculous, but only because we applied YOUR LOGIC to his situation. It is your logic that is stupid.
The comparison accutely demonstrates the stupidity of your own argument, which you haven't been able to defend other than to proclaim that "I am not evil!! I do nice things!!"
You aren't going to get too far trying to pretend you WEREN'T evil or vile when you commiting adultery, saddestwife. That false claim only reveals your lack of honesty.
Maybe I'm way off on my assessment of where an A fits on the moral spectrum of evil -- personally, I think the guy who helped the four year old make a Lego penis and then raped her anally and vaginally with it is in a different league than me but I gather you folks disagree -- but anyone who compares an A to the systematic slaughter of 6 million innocent people is WAY more way off than I am.
I am embarrassed [for you] that you are trotting out the worst examples of evil to try and minimize the evil you committed against your husband.
This is called defining deviancy down. A favored justification tactic of those in denial. Just the fact that you are doing this should be a clue how evil your adultery really is.
I am quoting this for safekeeping in the hopes that some day, you ever get honest and cut the crap. This is really bad, SW.
Mel, I did an evil, vile thing. That doesn't define me. I also do good things. Those don't define me either.
My logic is that good caring people sometimes make horrible evil decisions but that doesn't make them horrible evil people. There is a distinction.
You are the one who brought up Hitler, not me. Your logic is that if a person does an evil thing, that defines them and you evidently have no evilness spectrum if you can compare a suburban wife who had an A with a man who systematically slaughtered 6 million innocent people. It's all the same to you.
Which shows how incredibly desperate you are to vilify me/WS's.
Mel, I did an evil, vile thing. That doesn't define me. I also do good things. Those don't define me either.
SW, you are the one who is showing desperation with your denial that you were not evil followed by your inability to rationally explain why it is ok to judge Hitler for his behavior, but not to judge you for yours. Why the different standard?
If you insist that we don't judge you for your behavior then you can't insist that we judge Hitler for his behavior either. If we use your standard, then you must ADMIT that Hitler was a "good person," just like you, who "just made a mistake."
Using your "standard" of judgment, his behavior "Doesn't make [him] evil. Makes him a human being who made a decision that was evil ...."
You can't use one standard for Hitler and another for yourself.
Saying his crime was worse than yours does not negate the ABSURD principle you are applying to yourself in order to DENY that you were evil and vile.
If a person is not judged by his behavior, then by WHAT? You know better than that, SW.
A principle, if sound, applies to ALL, not just some. The fact that you admit it is absurd to deny Hitler is evil is an admission that your "PRINCIPLE" is absurd.
"No clue where I have been". "I am not defending myself"
Not to be argumentative, SW, but those statements are very much those of someone most concerned about defending themselves. No one knows your real name, SW, or who or where you are. There is nothing to defend. You were in a dysfunctional marriage, and you were both contributor and enabler. Those things are always true. You chose to cheat with someone outside your marriage, which is not a solution. It is not defensible. The people here are trying to help you, and it won't really start to work until you stop defending yourself. This program works, if you want it to. You have to give up and find humility. It really is just that simple. I am not writing these things from the standpoint of superiority. I have been a miserable failure as a person, despite having done many very good things and having had a loving heart for people and the world. But in my marriage, I was a total crippled idiot, and perpetrated evil. I grew to hate my wife, because she saw through my ego [censored] and would not play along. I used my hatred to perpetrate evil against her and ruin a quarter century of her life instead of just getting out. Now, all I want is her, because I see a jewel, and I want it. I never really saw her before. I am just learning, just starting to crawl. And I see myself in you. Please. Just stop defending yourself. You can do this. I am sure of it.
OK...let's all calm down here and drop the hyperbole on both sides.
SW, no, you are not a child-molestor or a mass-murdering, war-mongering, power-hungry dictator a la Hitler or Stalin or Mao (pick your poison there ladies). You didn't kill anyone and you (hopefully) recognize your adultery was WRONG & EVIL. We all have sinned and we all can be redeemed if we choose to confess, repent, and make amends for our misdeeds.
But...let's be clear. Your adultery was more than simply "a bad mistake" too. The fact that you otherwise "do good things" in your life does not in any way mitigate against the very vile thing you did to your BH & family. [All of those here who occaisionally "do good things", raise your hand...everyone's hand goes up!]
There is no point in getting into the "good person/bad person" argument. How about this--do you want to be a MUCH BETTER person than you were during your affair? I would hope the answer is a resounding "yes". If so, then drop all the touchiness, excuses, and defensiveness about your culpability in the adultery. Such activities only reinforce to others that which you are seeking redemption from. Replace it with HONESTY, HUMILITY, & REPENTANCE. Selflessly RESTORE those you have wronged. Live a life of honor and respect from here forward and you will recover your honor and respect.
We can learn from the past even though we cannot change it. How we are regarded by others in the future depends upon how we act in the present. Best wishes...
Rant(since this is what the thread was started for )
I get so mad when WSs claim that the BS don't get dinged with 2x4's or treated as harshly. I remember reading some posts and thinking, "Wow, that was HARSH." I would even cry about what people wold say to me. I now go back and re-read what those people said and I think, "What was I talking about?" You see, we all have our own filters. We see through our own eyes and use our own experiences to colour what we are looking at. We ALL could pull out a string of wrongs committed against us. THOSE experiences helped mold you into the person you are but they do not have to define you. You still make choices.
Learn from our mistakes and don't repeat them. When you know better, you do better.
Rant(since this is what the thread was started for )
I get so mad when WSs claim that the BS don't get dinged with 2x4's or treated as harshly. I remember reading some posts and thinking, "Wow, that was HARSH." I would even cry about what people wold say to me. I now go back and re-read what those people said and I think, "What was I talking about?" You see, we all have our own filters. We see through our own eyes and use our own experiences to colour what we are looking at. We ALL could pull out a string of wrongs committed against us. THOSE experiences helped mold you into the person you are but they do not have to define you. You still make choices.
Learn from our mistakes and don't repeat them. When you know better, you do better.
Good point Scottie.....though your "rant" about it was a bit soft.....you need to add a few capitals and exclamation points. Oh, and a few of these......
And yeah......I STILL feel the sting, 2 yrs later, of a few well deserved blows delivered from Mimi, Kayla and SL.........my sister STILL wants to kick some a$$ on my behave.......
Sorry Not, I am feeling a bit under the weather. Couldn't sleep either and now I get to go off to work and infect my co-workers HEHEHEHEHE. I will try harder next time.
I don't see 2x4's here, nothing harsh. Just honest truth of the situation. When we say pull your head out and go do Plan A, that is the truth! It is exactly what should be done with all considerations of a given situation.
When you deny the truth, get defensive on your actions (WS and BS alike), that is when you get bombarded by the truth. A married couple, and I mean it takes two to tango, who do not handle the truth will fail their marriage. Mine is fine for now because me and my wife accept the truth of things. Doesn't mean I shouldn't be vigilant and on my toes either.
Seriously though, I have only been here for 9 months and I have seen a lot more BSs cut and run when the vets are suggesting that they expose. There are quite a few threads where BSs are pretty much talking to themselves because the vets just couldn't handle talking to an empty wall. NO ONE, BS or WS alike, get unending advice without taking action and changing who they are and how they think.
I don't see 2x4's here, nothing harsh. Just honest truth of the situation. When we say pull your head out and go do Plan A, that is the truth! It is exactly what should be done with all considerations of a given situation.
When you deny the truth, get defensive on your actions (WS and BS alike), that is when you get bombarded by the truth. A married couple, and I mean it takes two to tango, who do not handle the truth will fail their marriage. Mine is fine for now because me and my wife accept the truth of things. Doesn't mean I shouldn't be vigilant and on my toes either.
You have obviously not been on a thread where some other poster have decided to attack a BS. How about telling me, "Obviously your WH had an affair. I hope he NEVER comes back so you get what you deserve." Is this TRUTH? Nope. It is just a turd deciding to attack people. Happens often enough around here though that there are mods. Edits happen just as often on BS threads.
I don't see 2x4's here, nothing harsh. Just honest truth of the situation. When we say pull your head out and go do Plan A, that is the truth! It is exactly what should be done with all considerations of a given situation.
When you deny the truth, get defensive on your actions (WS and BS alike), that is when you get bombarded by the truth. A married couple, and I mean it takes two to tango, who do not handle the truth will fail their marriage. Mine is fine for now because me and my wife accept the truth of things. Doesn't mean I shouldn't be vigilant and on my toes either.
You have obviously not been on a thread where some other poster have decided to attack a BS. How about telling me, "Obviously your WH had an affair. I hope he NEVER comes back so you get what you deserve." Is this TRUTH? Nope. It is just a turd deciding to attack people. Happens often enough around here though that there are mods. Edits happen just as often on BS threads.
lol....true, I guess I skip , skim, or ignore those guys who are attacking. I don't want any of that. I have selective reading.
There are NO degrees of sin with God. ONLY with man does it have a degree....which is defined with the "jail time" that it demands.
Now, is it more important what it means to God...or means to man? Which one gets you the farthest in the long run...and by that I mean eternity?
<<<Don't normally go with the God argument..it just seemed to fit this instance>>>
Keep wearing your "My sins don't define me" badge and you will find yourself committing the same sin over and over...because you are minimizing YOUR vile and evil action of adultery.
"No clue where I have been". "I am not defending myself"
Not to be argumentative, SW, but those statements are very much those of someone most concerned about defending themselves. No one knows your real name, SW, or who or where you are. There is nothing to defend. You were in a dysfunctional marriage, and you were both contributor and enabler. Those things are always true. You chose to cheat with someone outside your marriage, which is not a solution. It is not defensible. The people here are trying to help you, and it won't really start to work until you stop defending yourself. This program works, if you want it to. You have to give up and find humility. It really is just that simple. I am not writing these things from the standpoint of superiority. I have been a miserable failure as a person, despite having done many very good things and having had a loving heart for people and the world. But in my marriage, I was a total crippled idiot, and perpetrated evil. I grew to hate my wife, because she saw through my ego [censored] and would not play along. I used my hatred to perpetrate evil against her and ruin a quarter century of her life instead of just getting out. Now, all I want is her, because I see a jewel, and I want it. I never really saw her before. I am just learning, just starting to crawl. And I see myself in you. Please. Just stop defending yourself. You can do this. I am sure of it.
Dear GM (GoatMan)
You made my day!
Added:
Some days, I ask myself "Pep, why do you bother?" Then, someone writes something so unexpected and so encouraging, that I just feel like I might cry from joy and happiness.
I agree with Mel, the WS who question wether they have wronged the BS and aren't sincere by being here are pretty much a waste of time untill they get real.
The BSs have had thier heart torn out and need support as the real victims. although the plan is to recover the marriage, the BS needs the support as the only half that has not fallen into the lies that destroy the marriage, or themselves.
Woa... I missed it this weekend. Great stuff! Exceptional wisdom and unbeweaveable fogginess.
My rant for the day: Coworkers who consistently fail to show up to work on Mondays. My coworker called in again today, leaving me to cover for 8 attorneys.
See, when i arrived here 9 years ago, the 2x4s went exclusively to the BETRAYED SPOUSES - the wayward fogbabblers had the run of the joint. The lunatics were running the asylum.
Sugarcane, I had to chuckle, cuz you were right. I did question your questioning of the post. I did, what I was ranting about! ( and it could go on and on, back and forth, back and forth )
I was hoping you would pick up on that!
Yup, well there is no pride in being self-righteous. I'm amazed at what I pick up on sometimes!
okay another rant ....... I hate the phone somedays. Is it the season, what the heck??? You can call the Marketing Association to have your name put on the 'do not call/do not mail' list, I've done this 3 times! I still get calls, I got one the other day and immediately emailed the organization (a government run one btw). They write me back advising me to notify the Marketing Association and have my name put on the do not call list. Did I mention that I've done this THREE times!
I don't think there is such a list, I think it's a scam to make us think that we have control over telemarketers ........
Why don't you notify the Marketing Association and have your name put on the "do not call" list? That'll fix it!
haha, that's what they keep telling me SC, and I have!
If I still get one of the random marketing calls I handle it 2 ways
1. I tell them I am on the Do not Call list -- most times they hang right up as they say I am sorry.
2. If they try and continue on I say very sweetly, "right now is not a good time, can you give me your number to call you later? If they start to give me some 800 number I say "No I want your home number, and I will call you there at MY convenience"...
ElunaInNC, I am in agreement with you here...there is absolutely NO job that is more important than fighting for the family! My WH lost his job because he was having A's with two...yes two A's at work with his employees.
I am SOOOOO happy he was fired because of them! We lost our ins., used most of our savings, yet it's all worth it to fight for my family & if I knew about the A's before he was exposed by another employee I would have exposed it!
My meek two cents... sorry for posting outside my own thread, I am in the process of getting the F in front of my WW-initials and I know WSs are not very welcome in other places
Back to the topic on pages 6-7 or sth - Harshness towards WS-s
I think that when a WS finds their way to the MB forums, they (usually?) already realise that they need help to repair their marriage, even though they might still be (and usually are) deep in fog. So this first step alone is a good, favourable step. It does not, of course, define the person but still.
2x4s are good and necessary, but I can tell you that a supportive post once in a while (recognizing the positive steps already done) may be as boosting for the repentance and recovery process. In that sense, I can see why SaddestWife is still fully armed. It is hard to let go of the guards when everyone seems (mind me, SEEMS! not necessarily IS, but seems) hostile. I think that I kept the courage to stay here and gradually let go of my pride because of Stan-Ley's mild and couraging answer to me.
So, I guess that for me a good ratio would be nine 2x4s and one supportive post (of course - not supportive of the A which would bring back to square one but supportive of the steps already made)
But without the 2x4s, the recovery would not be possible.
And SaddestWife, if you read this... I realised that in order to be able to become clean again, you have to dive all the way to the bottom. In a way, it is like being reborn. You have to let go ALL of the 'but's and justifications and 'I am not defined by what I did'. First you have to admit - and also fully realise internally - that for this period, this DID define you. It will not define you in the future, but only on the condition that you admit that it once did. Until that happens, your eyes are still half closed and its really hard to move on.
I am not by far the best person to give any lectures on the matter. But it is just something that I realised myself. I hope the vets will approve
People starting multiple threads for EVERY NEW QUESTION. Stick to ONE thread. There are so many posters on here, I don't want to go back and read TONNES of your other THREADS to figure out what point you are in your plan. What have you already been advised? Did you take advise? Have you done any of the BASIC things in MB? What is your history? Fill out a darn signature line will ya. I have a bad memory sometimes and when you post once every 6 months, how am I supposed to remember you? Do I look like MelodyLane(NOPE!).
Please for the love of all that is holy and good, STICK TO ONE THREAD(unless it is about something OTHER than your sitch, ie my newly betrayed thread).
THANK YOU
I only feel a little better. I know most of the multiple threaders aren't even going to read this because they rarely leave their own thread. Doesn't anyone read anymore? I mean COME ON, this information is out there for FREE. I would pay a membership fee just to be allowed on this site. I don't like to help people who refuse to help themselves. ARGH. Rants done, FOR NOW. HEHEHEHEHEHEHE
Why do people sign in and post just to the newest topics? Does anyone see a thread they post to all the way thru? It woundn't bug me except they don't read all the in-between info that was given and then 2x4 before they know the whole story, go away, andcome back and don't read again. Rinse and repeat.
Original posters answer the same questions and I am sure get frustrated, but even more frustrating they don't answer the new questions because they are defending themselves on the old ones.
Its easy to give canned answers and some of us are better qualified to do that than others, but if your gonna 2x4, know what your doing and talking about, and be sure to give a solution along with the problem, or at least some empathy.
Before you attack another poster on thier opinion, read back enough to see if they have followed the thread longer than you, and if they have invested time in the thread, that means reading it through from start to finish.
I agree about the multiple threads. I think people open up new threads because they really just want a new title to their old thread but don't know how to do that. Also, by opening a new thread, sometimes they think they are "closing" the door on an old one. Sadly, it's harder to offer the best advice if you have to piece the story together from ten different threads.
To answer your question, as it pertains to this topic, I will merely point to studies by very experienced people in the fields of domestic abuse and suicide. I am certain that you can perform a Google search to verify the information.
Though I agree with your basic premise taiwan I have a couple of issues with your presentation.
On a forum, such as this - your word carries only the weight you give it.
If you want your words to be taken seriously then you must provide something to support them. Around here, that means we know who you are and what your story is - so we know your perspective and can weigh your advice accordingly.
Also - if you have information or studies to support your words - LINK them; quote them and source them. If you have a position, the burden is upon you to support that position - saying "go google it" is not support.
Now I know it's a rants thread - and we don't have to support ourselves over here - we just rant. But if you're called on something saying "I'll back my words up when I feel like it and go google for yourself" just undermines your message.
I said in my first post, I agree with you - but your words will carry more weight if you bother to back them up.
This forum is for imparting Marriage Builder's advice. Knowing how much a person knows and how well they've implemented that advice is CRUCIAL to the weight of their words.
My rant for this particular moment is about new posters who come in and obviously have never bothered to read the forum rules but just leave little piles of doo doo that upset people who are trying to get through an incredibly hard time.
My original rant for today will just have to wait.
Sometimes when someone hear's a rant they try to fix the source of the ranting. I know the rants about people not sticking to original post and not having a siggy was about me. Sorry for not sticking to one thread. It is tempting to start a new one about specific questions because you think the subject line will draw more attention. Selfish wayward behavior right.
My rant for today is that so often here abuse complaints from WS and occasionally BS are ignored, dismissed or minimised.
There is no place where where a couple in an abusive relationship can feel safe to work on their M. Their M is quite often written off. I really think that with the right tools, their M can be saved and they can have a loving relationship.
or...
What was it that I said or did that meant I was allowed to hang around and work through my DV problem even though I was WW?
Can anyone post lists of MBers that have recovered from domestic violence and an A, or just domestic violence?
My rant for this particular moment is about new posters who come in and obviously have never bothered to read the forum rules but just leave little piles of doo doo that upset people who are trying to get through an incredibly hard time.
My original rant for today will just have to wait.
My Rant is that its not a rant to agree with this so I should just not post how true it is cuz it might start a chain reaction.
Sometimes when someone hear's a rant they try to fix the source of the ranting. I know the rants about people not sticking to original post and not having a siggy was about me. Sorry for not sticking to one thread. It is tempting to start a new one about specific questions because you think the subject line will draw more attention. Selfish wayward behavior right.
Also, I added a siggy.
I wasn't ranting about you...in fact, when I posted to your thread, I was unaware that you had multiple threads. Don't beat yourself up about it--I opened multiple threads myself when I first started. Then I realized how inefficient it was. Now, I only open threads when it's off topic and my "life story" thread(s) are way dormant. When I'm ready to re-evaluate, I'll dig one of them up. So don't beat yourself up about that. If you were to CONTINUE behavior after you've learned about the importance of one thread, THEN we'll rant about you!
Well, do we have to post rules about rants? Just the nature of ranting will offend someone. I would think that keeping it away from personal names and specific situations should be good enough.
Rebutting a rant cuz you think its aimed at you is counter-productive, if it bugs ya quote it to your thread. If no names were used then it should work well to deal with it there, and you can straighten out if need be.
Most likely it will be a repeat topic anyways. People ussually do not say negative things here that they didn't allready say there. This isn't a bashing thread. Its for letting off steam.
So what should be the rules about the rant thread? I don't want to see it locked like the last one.
Sometimes when someone hear's a rant they try to fix the source of the ranting. I know the rants about people not sticking to original post and not having a siggy was about me. Sorry for not sticking to one thread. It is tempting to start a new one about specific questions because you think the subject line will draw more attention. Selfish wayward behavior right.
Also, I added a siggy.
ACTUALLY, it wasn't about you specifically.
I am NOT the thread police, there are mods for that. There is NO rule on MB that says you CAN NOT start new threads. I was jut ranting about anyone who does it and doesn't have a siggy and multiple threads for each new question.
I can't always remember who is who and what has been done and so forth. especially when someone comes back after a few months and then I have NO CLUE. I am also a slow reader.
I just HATE posters that feel the need to use stupid smiley faces constantly on their posts thinking that they are "cute" or "funny"...They are just damn annoying!!!!!!
PS...and NO, I will not mention the posters name...you guys will just have to figure it out on your own!!!!!
I just HATE posters that feel the need to use stupid smiley faces constantly on their posts thinking that they are "cute" or "funny"...They are just damn annoying!!!!!!
PS...and NO, I will not mention the posters name...you guys will just have to figure it out on your own!!!!!
I just HATE posters that feel the need to use stupid smiley faces constantly on their posts thinking that they are "cute" or "funny"...They are just damn annoying!!!!!!
PS...and NO, I will not mention the posters name...you guys will just have to figure it out on your own!!!!!
Mark, even if the intended posters ignore your post there is no doubt that you are helping a lot of others that read it...You have helped me numerous times and havent even known it....
Well its not a rant but, I have been thinking about all the great advice given here and the sometimes deaf ears it falls upon.
If it wern't for the people who consistently say the same things over and over untill the little light bulb comes to life in our heads at the exact time God only knows it is needed, where would we all be?
A word in season, but we don't know when it will mean anything or when it will work, only God knows when the time is.
So thats not a rant, but a word of appreciation, in season I hope.
Well its not a rant but, I have been thinking about all the great advice given here and the sometimes deaf ears it falls upon.
If it wern't for the people who consistently say the same things over and over untill the little light bulb comes to life in our heads at the exact time God only knows it is needed, where would we all be?
A word in season, but we don't know when it will mean anything or when it will work, only God knows when the time is.
So thats not a rant, but a word of appreciation, in season I hope.
Exactly!
Repetition is the mother of learning.
If it wasn't for reading the same principles over and over again in slightly different angles, I wouldn't have really got the ideas so quickly and thoroughly.
Lately, I reread a book on marriage that I had read about five years ago. It struck to me how it was essentially discussing the same things, even some terms were similar or exactly the same. But since some of this (boundaries, radical honesty, joint agreement and stuff) was discussed way too shortly, I just did not grasp the importance then.
So Mark, do NOT think that you have not been heard. Maybe not the person who it was meant to, but so many others have had a light come up in their heads...
I have become a fervent herald of MarriageBuilders, telling people about this forum, giving some links.. And quite many of them have been Mark's posts.
and I have on occasion, realised that you've stopped posting the same thing repeatedly to me, with a different analogy and then seen you post something similar ot someone else and that is the
Thanks for the laugh, Mark. And FWIW, I NEVER ignore you.......sometimes it just takes me more than sermon to "get it". I blame those pesky hair chemicals.......
In case you and your H are interested, the class my wife and I are running in September is also being led at the church we went to training at in Troy. It's a good "refresher" for those familiar with the Basic Concepts and already using them and after paying once you can take it as a refresher any time for free for life.
Just thought I'd mention it.
If you can't find the link and are interested, I can send it to you.
In case you and your H are interested, the class my wife and I are running in September is also being led at the church we went to training at in Troy. It's a good "refresher" for those familiar with the Basic Concepts and already using them and after paying once you can take it as a refresher any time for free for life.
Just thought I'd mention it.
If you can't find the link and are interested, I can send it to you.
[/tj]
Thanks for thinking of me Mark.........I'll talk it over with Mr. and see where that gets me.......
Hmmmmmm..... .......maybe B will lend me her shoes for the talk......
A: "I think you should ____ and definitely ___ and maybe even ___ because this article <Insert link here> describes what you need to do clearly and even gives you the reasons WHY it is what you should do."
Q: "Yeah, I read that. I understand what you are saying exactly. Thanks so much for that link, it is a great help. So, now what do you think I should do."
A: "I still think you should do ____ and ____ and probably ___ as well."
Q: "Yeah, you are probably right. But in my situation what would be the right thing to do?"
A: "Follow the Plan outlined in SAA or in this thread here <link>."
Q: Yeah but what about MY situation?"
A: "I thought we addressed that already. Here let me repeat this for you in case you missed it [quote previous post] [Quote additional supporting information] [quote another previous explanation]"
Q: "Got it. Thanks!"
Q: You know, I was thinking about this ___ and ___ and even the ___ everyone says I should do, but I don't think it fits or applies or actually addresses my problem very well, so instead I'm gonna do %^&^&%"
Q: "Well, my H/W is moving out this weekend to live with AP. Anybody know what I should do?"
If I may be so bold.....as a once upon a time, not so long ago newbie, who took weeks and months of frusterating the heck out of the good people here (dat be YOU...) doing all those things mentioned above......I have to say....
I am FOREVER GRATEFUL for those (dat be YOU again...... ) who took the time and energy to stay with me till the end.......even when I tested and tried their patience over and over and over and over.......(yeah, dat still be YOU.....)...........
Not
Ps.....but I have to say, now being on the other side of the affair......ya all should have shot me!!!!!!.......
Mark, of course you are being HEARD. We just don't know what to say to you sometimes and how to respond. Besides, it's like when I would sing karaoke after a friend of mine, who should have been paid to sing,"How can I follow THAT?"
You were given Props on another thread along with JL and Gloveoil and the rest of us apparently are just "noise". sob, cry, wail, okay I'm over it.
Your posts take a lot of time to absorb. Maybe some people are just slower than others and they will "get it" next week/month or year. HEHEHEHE
Your posts are amazing and I LOVE the addition to any thread. There are A LOT of people who are great posters on here, some just don't use so many words to get their point across. You're one cool dude, if I may say.
A: "I think you should ____ and definitely ___ and maybe even ___ because this article <Insert link here> describes what you need to do clearly and even gives you the reasons WHY it is what you should do."
Q: "Yeah, I read that. I understand what you are saying exactly. Thanks so much for that link, it is a great help. So, now what do you think I should do."
A: "I still think you should do ____ and ____ and probably ___ as well."
Q: "Yeah, you are probably right. But in my situation what would be the right thing to do?"
A: "Follow the Plan outlined in SAA or in this thread here <link>."
Q: Yeah but what about MY situation?"
A: "I thought we addressed that already. Here let me repeat this for you in case you missed it [quote previous post] [Quote additional supporting information] [quote another previous explanation]"
Q: "Got it. Thanks!"
Q: You know, I was thinking about this ___ and ___ and even the ___ everyone says I should do, but I don't think it fits or applies or actually addresses my problem very well, so instead I'm gonna do %^&^&%"
Q: "Well, my H/W is moving out this weekend to live with AP. Anybody know what I should do?"
A: "I think you should ____ and definitely ___ and maybe even ___ because this article <Insert link here> describes what you need to do clearly and even gives you the reasons WHY it is what you should do."
Q: "Yeah, I read that. I understand what you are saying exactly. Thanks so much for that link, it is a great help. So, now what do you think I should do."
A: "I still think you should do ____ and ____ and probably ___ as well."
Q: "Yeah, you are probably right. But in my situation what would be the right thing to do?"
A: "Follow the Plan outlined in SAA or in this thread here <link>."
Q: Yeah but what about MY situation?"
A: "I thought we addressed that already. Here let me repeat this for you in case you missed it [quote previous post] [Quote additional supporting information] [quote another previous explanation]"
Q: "Got it. Thanks!"
Q: You know, I was thinking about this ___ and ___ and even the ___ everyone says I should do, but I don't think it fits or applies or actually addresses my problem very well, so instead I'm gonna do %^&^&%"
Q: "Well, my H/W is moving out this weekend to live with AP. Anybody know what I should do?"
A:
[/rant]
Thanks! You made my day by capturing this so well.
QA: "I thought we addressed that already. Here let me repeat this for you in case you missed it [quote previous post] [Quote additional supporting information] [quote another previous explanation]"
Mark, Mark, Mark! Its so much more fun to come here and post about specific conflicts for years and years [or until divorced, whichever comes first] than actually follow the program. Do you know nothing!?
Your threads, your responses, your comments are all well thought out and helpful. You are a valuable source and I read and re read your stuff all the time.
I love that they are long and wordy cause I love to read and get all the goodies out.
Please do not ever change. PLEASE!
Now, if I could ever learn how to post smilies from other places I could join in the emoticon game.
I also LOVE when I go to the states and I ask for ketchup for my fries, I always get looks. Don't worry, I get looks here too because I put ketchup on my Poutine. I think I have a problem. Is there a ketchup Anonymous meeting anywhere? HAHAHAHAHAHA
Ketchup chips sounds gross to me but you get looks for putting ketchup on your fries here in the US? Down here in the good old heartland (yes HEARTland, suck it up the rest of y'all) you get looks if you don't put ketchup on your fries, eggs or just about anything else. I don't like the stuff myself but if I did I would draw the line at ketchup on tacos although I have certainly seen it.
I had to look up Poutine, never heard of it. Hmmm, you put ketchup on stuff with cheese and brown gravy? You and our former president Ronald Reagan would have been pals because he considered ketcup sandwiches nutritious enough for schools to serve, ya know. Ketchup is a vegetable?????
I cannot eat french fries without ketchup, but never even heard of putting it on potato chips....My DS would prolly love that though...He puts ketchup on pretty much everything from veggies to steak...I go through so much ketchup in my house, just from DS...Now Heinz put out a new ketchup without the high fructose corn syrup..It is delicious and healthier for DS esp since he consumes so much of it.
Now Heinz put out a new ketchup without the high fructose corn syrup..
This is so funny ~ I am kind of a health nut so as soon as I saw "ketchup", I was thinking this too. I was so happy when I found out they had this version We have tried to eliminate hf corn syrup from our home...
Your threads, your responses, your comments are all well thought out and helpful. You are a valuable source and I read and re read your stuff all the time.
I love that they are long and wordy cause I love to read and get all the goodies out.
Please do not ever change. PLEASE!
Now, if I could ever learn how to post smilies from other places I could join in the emoticon game.
Come on now, we gotta get u in the smiley games here. I LOVE FUNNY SMILIES!!!! If you google free smileys or free emoticons you will get tons of websites....heres one I use, but I have tons of them.... smileys Just copy and past the HTML code...Now start smiling!
I cannot eat french fries without ketchup, but never even heard of putting it on potato chips....My DS would prolly love that though...He puts ketchup on pretty much everything from veggies to steak...I go through so much ketchup in my house, just from DS...Now Heinz put out a new ketchup without the high fructose corn syrup..It is delicious and healthier for DS esp since he consumes so much of it.
I saw that, no HFCS is a wonderful thing! GM eats it some. I have to confess that I was making myself a vegetarian Indian recipe that called for tomato paste and I did not have any. I subbed ketchup and it worked really well!
Now Heinz put out a new ketchup without the high fructose corn syrup..
This is so funny ~ I am kind of a health nut so as soon as I saw "ketchup", I was thinking this too. I was so happy when I found out they had this version We have tried to eliminate hf corn syrup from our home...
Lol at V!!!! I actually have a 2 Dunkin Donuts within walking distance from my house..and they are not the ones on the highway either..They are just EVERYWHERE!!!!!
Almost any web based graphic can be posted as a smiley. Use the image commands img and /img enclosed in brackets [] of course and between them insert the url of the graphic itself.
For example: The url http://www.krispykreme.com/images/historytop1.gif is the location of a GIF file that is the logo on a page for Krispy Kreme. By inserting the url between the image switches it goes and looks up that file and shows it here.
The result looks like this:
To find the location of the image that appears on any web page, try right clicking on the image and see if <View Image> is one of your options. If it is, it will give you just the image and the url will be in the url bar of your browser. Copy and paste this url between the image switches and you are all set.
Be careful that you don't pick an image that is way too large for the format here. Anything bigger than about 500 pixels in any dimension gets a bit big when posted here.
The smiley's themselves often have preset code that can be copied into forums. The code includes the image switches as well as the url. Some sites, like Cool Smileys actually include the switches for a url link as well as the ones for an image. If you delete the url stuff, you get just the image. But leaving that information allows the image to be clicked on and then it takes you to the site where the image came from.
This same kind of thing can also be used to make the graphic the link to a url that you are linking. This is how I do the <Click Here> buttons to take people directly to a link of my choosing. Those buttons, BTW, come from Best Smileys.
To see how it is all put together, quote this link and you'll see what the format is. If you click the cowboy, it will take you to Best Smileys dot com.
So now you know SOME of the tricks...
Besides me, who types UBB code directly into posts in <Quick Reply> without switching to full reply screen mode?
OK, now that I have been sitting here all this time looking for a dancing goat this is the closest I have come. I hope this works...
You did it you did it. Now you have an agreeable goat.
I wondered when i typed "poutine" how many people would have to google it. It is really good.
As far as the looks about ketchup on fries, that is in Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY mostly. I can't remember what happened when we went to Milwaukee.
I have only ever eaten a Krispy Kreme Donut out of a box that they sold at Walmart and it didn't seem that great. I am sure the ones you get right from the stores taste much better. We have Tim Hortons donut shops here. They are on every other corner I think. I don't drink coffee but people keep saying that it is the BEST coffee they have ever drank.
Mark, I get looks when I drink Coke for breakfast(again, I don't drink coffee). G;ad to see I am not the only one. And I do write code into the regular reply box. That's why I usually only use and smiley faces. They are the only ones I know by heart.
I have only ever eaten a Krispy Kreme Donut out of a box that they sold at Walmart and it didn't seem that great.
Nuke it until it's a little gooey next time. A hot glazed Krispy Kreme is a big weakness of mine. Thank goodness we don't have Krispy Kremes around here...
OK, now that I have been sitting here all this time looking for a dancing goat this is the closest I have come. I hope this works...
You did it you did it. Now you have an agreeable goat.
I wondered when i typed "poutine" how many people would have to google it. It is really good.
As far as the looks about ketchup on fries, that is in Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY mostly. I can't remember what happened when we went to Milwaukee.
I have only ever eaten a Krispy Kreme Donut out of a box that they sold at Walmart and it didn't seem that great. I am sure the ones you get right from the stores taste much better. We have Tim Hortons donut shops here. They are on every other corner I think. I don't drink coffee but people keep saying that it is the BEST coffee they have ever drank.
Mark, I get looks when I drink Coke for breakfast(again, I don't drink coffee). G;ad to see I am not the only one. And I do write code into the regular reply box. That's why I usually only use and smiley faces. They are the only ones I know by heart.
I did do it! YAY!
Of course I had to google Poutine and even got a picture and correct pronunciation of it . I learned 2 new things today!
Well those mid - Northerners would probably put Mayo on their fries! Probably that is good but I am afraid to try it and get hooked on it. BBQ sauce works well and I use that since BBQ is famous around here and I don't eat meat (boy do I get looks living here in cattle country).
Krispy Kreme warm in the store are about the best things I can think of. I do not eat them, we do not have them here. Where I live we hardly even have neighbors so... They are deadly though, mmmmmm.
Lots of people here drink Coke for breakfast. You would fit right in.
Interesting about the UBB code or whatever it is. I have not the first clue what you are talking about. I see it but I ignore it, it seems too scary to me.
Thanks for those pictures! I guess if I can get a good shot of my goats "dancing" I could then post that picture. I would like that but they are darned hard to catch with a camera!
I would like that but they are darned hard to catch with a camera!
then try using a rope or your hands at the least next time. Never heard of using a camera to catch a goat. HEHEHHEHEHE. Just trying to be Funny.
I also will put mayo on my fries. I sometimes mix it with ketchup and hot sauce too. That's what happens when you work for 5 years at Wendys, you find new ways to eat the food.
Photobucket would work wouldn't it? If I was able to use that would I still need the IMG tags? I think they come already with the picture. I really should not do this to this site, I love to post pictures. Just wondering.
Again,thanks Mark for this and everything else you do here.
Definitely boring....and I would be stupider, err ah, more stupider, ahhh, more dumber....Well lets just say I would be less knowledgable or not have as much knowledger....Well I think you know what I am tryin to say...
Mark is just sooo knowlegable and loves to share it with us lucky posters....
I also LOVE when I go to the states and I ask for ketchup for my fries, I always get looks. Don't worry, I get looks here too because I put ketchup on my Poutine. I think I have a problem. Is there a ketchup Anonymous meeting anywhere? HAHAHAHAHAHA
When I went to THE University of Alabama, there was a Krispy Kreme near my apt. I had a friend who would call at 2:00 am and tell me the "hot now" sign was on, and we would go and get some donuts. Ahhhh, the memory of being able to eat your weight in warm donuts and not gain an ounce......
That's my rant. I can't do that anymore! First, I'm not sure there ARE that many donuts at any given time. Plus, I'd just have to go BACK to Lane Bryant if I ate them. wahhhhhhhhh!!!!!! If only I didn't have taste buds.
I'm sorry, Mark. I was, like, so distracted trying to text my bff while putting on my mascara because I was running late to the pedicure that I just had to get done before picking up my quadruplets from soccer practice.
Besides, my daddy told me that I was his little girl and could do whatever I want!
If you are turning into the parking lot at Walmart, then GO into the parking lot at Walmart and don't stop HALFWAY into the parking lot at Walmart and leave ten other cars hanging out in traffic.
You can find a parking place once you are actually IN the parking lot at Walmart...
And why is it that the same folks that can drive 90 MPH between two paint stripes 9 feet apart have to slam on their brakes as soon as a single traffic cone is placed 2 feet outside of one of those two lines?
You know those signs that say the left lane is closed 1 mile ahead, 1/2 mile ahead etc? They put them there so that you will get the hell out of the left lane BEFORE the lane actually closes.
That lane that enters the highway and takes about 1/2 mile to merge into traffic is so that you can press on the GAS and start accelerating so that when you actually pull out into traffic you are going the same speed as everyone else and not 25 MPH slower than everyone else...It's called an acceleration lane because you are supposed to use it to ACCELERATE...
And when the light turns green...push the one on the right...and STOP pushing the one on the left...
You wouldn't have to drive 20 MPH over the limit to get there on time if you would leave home BEFORE you are supposed to be there and actually get up to speed before the next light...
You don't have to stop for nearly as many red lights if you quit stopping and slowing down for all the green ones...
Why is the guy who passed nine cars in the last block directly in front of me at the next light when he was directly beside me at the last one? And why doesn't he actually GO when the light turns green?
If you drive the same road every day, why didn't you know your exit was the next one before you had to cross five lanes to get to it?
And those guys getting off the road are putting on their brakes to slow down so they don't lose control of their cars not to warn you that you should slow down because they saw something you didn't. Look AHEAD of you when you drive and not at your hood ornament. In other words, look where you are going and not where you are or where you have been recently...
The guy to pay the most attention to when you are driving is the driver of the car directly behind the car right in front of you...
Mark....I am sending you a package. The peach colored capsules are called Lithium, and you should take four. The little white one is called Klonopin, and you can take one.
HEY! People from Alabama are GREAT drivers...well, not Huntsville or Birmingham. Most of the bad drivers are transplants from Atlanta or Yankees driving through.
My rant is the ridiculously LOW speed limits in my facist police state of a town. If they would raise the speed limits by about 20 mph we would not have these issues.
Besides, how is one supposed to even KNOW the speed limit if you place the signs 5 miles apart?? Like, how can I see it if I am busy talking on my cell phone when I pass it? DO I LOOK LIKE MADAME CLEO???
My rant is the ridiculously LOW speed limits in my facist police state of a town. If they would raise the speed limits by about 20 mph we would not have these issues.
Besides, how is one supposed to even KNOW the speed limit if you place the signs 5 miles apart?? Like, how can I see it if I am busy talking on my cell phone when I pass it? DO I LOOK LIKE MADAME CLEO???
That is my rant for the day....
Sounds like some little speed demon got clocked doing 55 in a 35 recently.
Oh mark, what about those people when in heavy traffic for no apparent reason leave 3 car-lengths of space between them and the car in front of them? Is it some kind of statement or something? Are they leaving space for the medivac helicopter thats gonna land to take them to the hospital after someone loses it?
I mean traffic is bad enough, its backed up into the last intersection, and they are leaving wasted space.
Rotarys are only as good as the outside drivers who have the manners to let you out and aren't afraid you will get ahead of them.
Why do people worry about the .02 seconds they will lose to another driver that passes them. Why do people pass others only to get .02 secs ahead of them?
Yes if someone passes you in another lane God loves them more because he stuck you in the slow lane and it means your a loser. You absolutely must at any cost get even by dangerous driving and get ahead of them so you can show them and God your not a loser.
Who the heck is Phil Cambell? Is he related to Glen?
Where did the laws go that gave you a ticket if you changed lanes before signaling? Why don't they make cameras for that? If you jump in front of someone on the highway JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN or refuse to let them in when they use there signals just because you are afraid they might arrive .02 secs before you, you,..you should have a rotary built in front of your house with a convienience store on it as punishment.
Why wasn't I told of a party and where is my rigatoni? My address is...
Why is it that people who don't care a lot about cars much past making them safe and reliable make the best mechanics?
Why do people who have the discipline to hang out in 100 degree weather on a median for hours and have the quardination not to get run over by passing traffic along with the ability to time it not able to find work? Do they really want to suffer more than they have to or is it love through money they seek? I must be missing something.
I don't drive through "Poka" anymore....I'm a little creeped out that someone here knows where "poka" is. Kinda like Op, Buena Vista (pronounced byoona), and Muscle Shoals.
Oh, and in that crack about Yankees I forgot to make fun of them for saying "you guys" and not knowing what a finger bowl is for....
Luri, you forgot Notasulga and Arab (which for you non-Alabamians, is pronounced A-rabb).
And Mel, I'm now a naturalized Southerner. I know the real Southern secret -- you have to add the sugar to the tea while it's still hot or it won't dissolve and be REAL sweet tea.
And Mel, I'm now a naturalized Southerner. I know the real Southern secret -- you have to add the sugar to the tea while it's still hot or it won't dissolve and be REAL sweet tea.
ugh on da swate tea! That seems to be widely popular over in Louisiana and Arkansas!
Yep -- hot water with sugar...then steep the tea. Although I use nasty splenda now that I am trying to get all skinny and purty and junk.
I'll raise your Notasulga and add a Beatrice, an, Excel, and a Waverly.
New rant....sending your kids to a CHRISTIAN school only to have one of them come home and tell you that kids in her class like to use the "n" word, talk about how nobody likes "Chinese" and Mexicans," etc. I thought it was public school that was supposed to be evil. ugh
Oh mark, what about those people when in heavy traffic for no apparent reason leave 3 car-lengths of space between them and the car in front of them? Is it some kind of statement or something? Are they leaving space for the medivac helicopter thats gonna land to take them to the hospital after someone loses it?
I mean traffic is bad enough, its backed up into the last intersection, and they are leaving wasted space.
Rotarys are only as good as the outside drivers who have the manners to let you out and aren't afraid you will get ahead of them.
Why do people worry about the .02 seconds they will lose to another driver that passes them. Why do people pass others only to get .02 secs ahead of them?
Yes if someone passes you in another lane God loves them more because he stuck you in the slow lane and it means your a loser. You absolutely must at any cost get even by dangerous driving and get ahead of them so you can show them and God your not a loser.
Who the heck is Phil Cambell? Is he related to Glen?
Where did the laws go that gave you a ticket if you changed lanes before signaling? Why don't they make cameras for that? If you jump in front of someone on the highway JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN or refuse to let them in when they use there signals just because you are afraid they might arrive .02 secs before you, you,..you should have a rotary built in front of your house with a convienience store on it as punishment.
Why wasn't I told of a party and where is my rigatoni? My address is...
Why is it that people who don't care a lot about cars much past making them safe and reliable make the best mechanics?
Why do people who have the discipline to hang out in 100 degree weather on a median for hours and have the quardination not to get run over by passing traffic along with the ability to time it not able to find work? Do they really want to suffer more than they have to or is it love through money they seek? I must be missing something.
End of rant
People who SPEED UP when your passing them in the passing lane, even tho for the last thousand years they have been doing 80km in the 100km zone.
People who lift off the throttle just as they get beside the vehicle they intend to pass...
And THEN accelerate to go around them, exceed the limit by 20 MPH and then lift again just as they begin to pass the next vehicle.
Or the people who are going 10 MPH faster than you are and so instead of pulling in front of them you wait for them to pass you before pulling out to pass the slower vehicle ahead of you. But instead of passing, they get right along side, right at that point where they vanish from your side mirror and then match your speed for the next 1/2 mile or so causing you to have to put on your brakes, turning the cruise control off and waiting for them to get passed you...
I pull out in front of people at times, but only when I am in a hurry. If you pull out in front of me, I'll slow down so I don't run into you, but PLEASE get on the gas so that I don't have to stop while you decide where you are going next and who you will cut off in the process.
Road construction...
We only have two seasons in Illinois; winter and road construction. Our state flower seems to be the orange traffic cone. It blooms all over the state beginning as soon as the ice melts and remains until snow drifts bury them for another season. Our state mineral is asphalt and or state bird is the construction crane. The state shrub is the orange and white barricade. Our state tree is the stoplight standard and the state motto is:
"Be prepared...
To STOP!"
So now they work on roads at night so traffic isn't tied up all day long and we can be as annoyed at 10pm as we might have been at 10am.
Hope you are doing well. Enjoy your little guy now as I am sure you are, because in about 13 years he is probably going to be a kick butt linebacker in the NFL, earning like $12MM a year, and at that time you will be upset that he wants to give you some good things in life and ignores your H's cell phone calls.....Just trying to lighten.
Hey us northern foreigners have that LaboUr day weekend this weekend too. It also marks the last day of Summer Vaca for the kiddos. I never understood why some of the American schools start in August only to have Labor Day weekend vaca.
My friend said the funniest thing to her son today. He was belly aching about having to go back to school on Tuesday. She said, "Just because I love you so much, let's make it a four day week." HAHAHAHAHA She kills me. Now, back to learning. I gotta work tomorrow and I work in a major retailer(American, can you guess which one?) and it seems that people always forget that school starts soon and they decide to wait until the very last minute to by school supplies and then complain that we are all sold out. They do the same thing at Halloween and Valentines. Mother's Day is one of the days when Men out number women shopping for sure.
That is so true that everyone waits until the last minute to get school stuff....I usually do, but this year I did it early..I think I would usu procrastinate because I really didnt want to believe that school was starting...
Some schools around my area started school this week already too...Thank goodness my town always starts after labor day, well for now it does anyway...
I absolutely DID rant. I know it didn't come off as angry as it could have. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE when people wait until the last minute to buy stuff because I WORK AT THE CUSTOMER SERVICE COUNTER, so they complain to ME. And then they always end it with, "I am NEVER shopping here again." Seriously, I get paid just a little over minimum wage and I have NO CONTROL over prices or stocking. The managers make me tell stories as to why we ran out but it is simply, supply and demand. We didn't have enough supply for the demand and there is nothing we can do about it FOR DAYS. ARGHHHHHHHH
There, was that better? HEHEHEHE. Now, off to work.
So my rant is that on labor day weekend I am allways working on something. This weekend it will be swapping an engine. (I'm to old for this crap!)
CP, I might be able to feel sympathy for you if I could work out why in the world anybody would want to "swap an engine".
Lol, well cuz the old engine is broken? Its my friends car and I'm the go-to guy everybody knows will do a good job and won't screw them on the price. Fortunatly this freind will pay me.
But it seems ever since I can remember, thier has been some project to do on holiday weekends/vacations and/or I haven't had the $ to go away to do anything. I guess thats not a rant, more like whining. So i'll change my rant to ....
My rant is people complaining about having no time and money when they don't manage it correctly. Lol
Well, you see LaboUr day is TODAY but on Friday it was the start of LaboUr Day weekend.
Getting the kids ready for their first day of school tomorrow. I am a bit giddy. No rants for me for today. I survived my first summer vaca as a single mother.
If the world will not fall off its axis, nor reverse its direction of rotation...If the seas stay calm and the ozone layer remain intact... Then let me post a most definitely not-rant on the rants thread:
I love you MBers! It warmed my heart to see the reception to a lurker delurking, and I have the utmost respect and pride (which, odd, misplaced, I know - but no better word describes it) to know such a community of folks.
Ahhh shucks MrsV, I love ya too. Anyone who earns the F, as in FWS, is a WELCOME addition to these boards. This community is SUPERB and when the WS earn their F they usually agree.
My rant is ppl who change thr rant thread when I don't have anything to rant about anyway to anti-rant and all day i have been trying to find something negative to say.
All those negative thoughts wasted now.
And if anybody doesn't know it today is LABOR DAY!
The thing about Labor Day is that it really isn't for most. For most it's party-hearty all weekend and then take the day off on Monday (the actual holiday) to recover.
My rant for the day: those stupid ads that keep popping up on my text messages telling me that I've been approved for $1500 cash with no/bad/terrible credit TODAY! How the heck did they get my number?
Lol ,well it seems thier still at it, promising money.
Remember the scams with the morgages that many bought into and lost there houses when the banks called thier loans?
How about the guys who are telling you to take advantage of the families that lost thier homes and buy the houses cheap now? I guess you could say its just business. Many people become rich on the backs of others. I just have a hard time getting real excited about it.
We are willing to sign our name to anything it seems and "Live now, Pay later", and the advertisers know that.
So I have lost the full use of my hands and have a damaged shoulder but still work on cars sometimes.
My rant is that I am getting old and slow and it hurts when I work.
Wait...I can work still ... maybe its a blessing...
My rant is I don't know the difference.....
Nite MBers..Got more car emergency work to do this week..
My rant for the day: those stupid ads that keep popping up on my text messages telling me that I've been approved for $1500 cash with no/bad/terrible credit TODAY! How the heck did they get my number?
did you put your cell on the national do not call list?
I hope I am not too new to add a small, non MB rant about my job.
I would just like it if one day this week, we didn't have problems so pointless that they would be laughable if not for the stress they cause.
EX: Tuesday we were having a problem with our door not locking, so the electrician came out and fixed it (there was a problem with the key scanner) He fixed it too well though, because today it was locked on the inside too- and we only have a scanner outside. I was literally stuck at work for a few hours!
OK Thursday- you better shape up, because Monday, Tuesday AND Wednesday really dropped the ball!
How about the nerve of an active wayward who is cake eating having the stones to file for temporary effing relief??
Relief from WHAT???
Relief from the spoils of a nice Plan A from BH?
Relief from the pain and agony of having all your living expenses paid for?
Relief from the troubles of having a 2010 model car paid for your use? Gas put in it's tank? Oil changed when needed all without asking?
Relief from a live-in housekeeper who does the dishes, cooks on occasion, does the laundry and is the only one in the house who picks anything up and puts it away?
Relief from a live-in childcare provider who is almost always available and completely trustworthy with your children? A provider who bends over backwards to spend time with the kids allowing you to play your internet poker, catch up on your internet EA and chat up your 'friends' on facebook and the like. It must be such a pain in the @ss to put up with all that free-time.
Relief from the 'stigma' and embarrassment of being married to a decorated war vet who is respected in your community and church. Oh yeah, you don't go to the church anymore due to your own scarlet "A" that you have sewn on yourself. Relief from the horrors of being married to a man who is faithful and devoted and has never cheated on any partner in his life- ever.
Relief from the overwhelming burden of having to figure out how to make ends meet and pay for....wait a minute.....you don't pay for anything except your own cell phone. Guess that one won't work. How 'bout Relief from the financial sacrifice of having your live-in paycheck pay for your mortgage, utilities, groceries, fast food, insurance, clothing, toliet paper, satelite TV, garbage collection... Man, I can see why you would ask the courts for some relief from that financial hardship you are in.
I can see how after putting up with this for about a year you have finally had enough and now need some temporary relief.
You fogged-out, spoiled, selfish, immature, addicted little wayward. Have no fear, your 'relief' is coming. Boy is it coming.
Temporary effing relief. Give me a break.
Guess this is how it feels when a love bank gets overdrawn.
I know from your thread how much it galls you that Pinky asked for temporary relief in her petition, but it really isn't that big a deal.
It's all just boiler plate material from her lawyer and standard wording. My WW asked for temporary relief in her petition, also, even though she makes a good deal more than I do.
The wording is just in their for her protection. Without it, there's nothing to stop you from moving out and not contributing a dime to the household if you wanted to. I believe you have every intention of continuing to pay the household bills, so there is no need for a temporary hearing or to change the status quo.
It just amazes me how all these $%^%&%& wayward women file for Temporary Relief - and are often awarded it - when their BHs are in the home providing all kinds of support, domestic, financial, etc.
And a WH can walk away from his family, not contribute a dime, not see his children for months on end - and his BW, who was left with all the household bills PLUS bills he accumulated in the A, and all the childcare and emotional support to the children, cannot even get into the court system to file for Temporary Relief.
And a WH can walk away from his family, not contribute a dime, not see his children for months on end - and his BW, who was left with all the household bills PLUS bills he accumulated in the A, and all the childcare and emotional support to the children, cannot even get into the court system to file for Temporary Relief.
Sounds like my grandmother, mother, aunt and a few friends. My grandmother went from riches to rags after my grandfather gambled all of the family money away and wrote bad checks....how cliche What a world...
My rant...what is with the angled parking spaces?
I mean, is perpendicular parking really that difficult? The angled parking just messes up the whole flow of the lot. You can only enter in one direction and then there are no convenient exits to that end. Sheesh
Actually, SL, I learned this one in civil engineering in college--the angled parking spaces can be packed tighter together because people don't need to negotiate a 90 degree turn. You'll notice that city codes allow for a certain number of spaces per acre when it's perpendicular parking and there's about 10 percent more when you're using angled. Also it allows you to claim some green space relief if you use a grass-filled berm in between. But yes, it's annoying when you're trying to get to a close spot, only to discover you're going against the grain.
But yes, it's annoying when you're trying to get to a close spot, only to discover you're going against the grain
Yeah, I read about these lots on wiki. I 'get' it, but these lots cause folks to do idiotic things to make a hasty exit. Driving across these lots without so much as glancing to make sure they are not on a collision course with someone following the insane directional lanes
Yeah, I know the filing for temp relief is a formality and really not that big a deal. It just burns me in it's concept though. Plus, venting here is sorta good for me anyway.
Now about the parking spaces....
How about the folks who purposely double park because they think they have a nice car and don't want to get a scratch. If you are so darn worried about a door ding, take the bus!!
Some folks double park simply because they are not very talented at parking....or driving for that matter, but that comes with the territory. It's the double parking on PURPOSE that gets me mad.
What steams me are the people that insist on backing into a perpendicular parking place, especially in a busy lot. Instead of taking 3 seconds to pull in, it takes 30 seconds and holds the whole line up.
What makes you so special that you have to back in?
I really enjoy people who exit their vehicles and commence to walk down the MIDDLE of the aisle at a leisurely pace to get to their destination, meanwhile cars creep up behind them waiting for them to get theheckouttatheflippin waaaaaaayyyyyy
Speaking of parking.. Why does it seem everybody has handicapped hanger for thier mirror? I get out and limp across the parking lot for exercise even though I could get one of those cuz I am diabled. Then someone pulls into a handicapped zone with thier SUV and hops out and walks faster than me into the store. Its happened a lot of times to me. Maybe they are "getting over on" all of us. Lol..fat chance..
I feel sorry for those who are disabled but besides that who cares. Thier fat azz and entitlment issues are not something I want to own.
Why do FedEx trucks have to deliver in heavy traffic hours and block lanes? Well I used to deliver in the city so I know how unforgiving other drivers are and if you want to get done, you gotta do what you gotta do. But I thought I would rant anyways.
As far as those people who walk down the center of the aisle in the parking lot, I like to sneak up on them and stop short, sure they get ticked but thats the fun of it.
Why do folks who have the handicapped parking permit drive with it hanging from their mirror when it clearly says on the permit to remove it from the mirror while you drive so you can see?
That would drive me crazy to have so much forward vision blocked by that parking permit.
Second rant. I had some clown, driving with the above mentioned tag hanging who meandered into my lane. I gave him the horn, and he woke up and got into his own lane. He ended up going to the same place, and I asked him to be careful as he may hurt someone if he continues to drive without awareness of his surroundings. Someone in the car said he was handicapped and doing the best he can.
I said driving was a privilege, not a right and if that's the best he can do, perhaps it's time for him to hang up the keys. If he hurts someone, the court is not going to accept that he was doing his best, so it's OK to be a bad driver and run others off the road.
Good grief, everyone is entitled. I'm entitled to a road free of idiots, where do I go to collect? :P
Since we're talking about parking lots - why isn't there more pregnant woman parking? Walking was such a pain when I was 30lbs heavier, and so swollen I couldn't get my shoes on!!!
Seriously a spot or two, just to make things a little easier.
I was so mad when I saw that my grocery store had pregnant lady parking - b/c I didn't notice it til 3 weeks AFTER my delivery...wait... maybe it DOES exist more places and I'm just blind...
My pet peeve is people who have a diversion to putting their freakin carriages in the corral(whatever its called). esp when the corral is right near them and they are not disabled...I would like to take the carriage and RAM it into their car and see how they like it...I am tired of my care being a carriage magnet.
One time I was sittin in my car when some lady pushed her carriage up to my car and left it there!!!!! I got out of the car and yelled "THATS OKAY ILL PUT YOUR CARRIAGE BACK FOR YOU!!!!!" .....It was only like ten feel away. UGHHHHHHH!!!! I mean I thought I was lazy..Pfffft!
And what's up with people who pull up to 4-way stops and are scared to actually GO when they HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY!! Oh, no - there they sit, waving at me wildly to move when they're supposed to go! What the H???
What about the people who decide that you are driving too slow when you are actually driving over the limit. They tailgate until they decide that it is "safe" to pass, over a solid yellow line and rush past you, only to stop 15 feet ahead at the red light.
Or what about the people who always block side streets that have signs that state, "Don't block the side street?"
What I also love is that we have street signs at railroad crossings that say, "Do not stop on tracks." Really? Who the heck does that?
Oh, and coming from a tourist town, what about people losing all ability to drive when they are not in their home city? Seriously, it's not like we drive on the wrong side of the road here. If you miss your exit on the highway, DON'T STOP and start backing up. Go to the next exit, get off, and get back on going the other direction until you get back to the correct exit.
BTW, I am NOT a good driver, I am extra cautious and HATE driving in traffic(coming from a city of 78,000). When we drove through Chicago at 9am on a Thursday, I thought I would DIE. It is pretty interesting how everything is set up there though. Couldn't imagine what would happen here with roads like that.
And what's up with people who pull up to 4-way stops and are scared to actually GO when they HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY!! Oh, no - there they sit, waving at me wildly to move when they're supposed to go! What the H???
Stop talking about me!
If you will insist on having something that does not occur anywhere else in the world, then you just have to put up with our nervousness when we visit!
My pet peeve is people who have a diversion to putting their freakin carriages in the corral(whatever its called). esp when the corral is right near them and they are not disabled...I would like to take the carriage and RAM it into their car and see how they like it...I am tired of my care being a carriage magnet.
I had absolutely no idea what this post was talking about at first. It took me a full 2 minutes to work out its meaning. Here is the English translation:
"My pet peeve is people who have an aversion to putting their"...
well "freakin" is a very American word. I know what is stands for, but we don't use it over here, so, to continue:
"to putting their flaming supermarket trolleys back where they belong."
I really did not understand a word of this at first. There was no context to tell me what "carriage" meant. Here, a carriage is something was used 100 years ago to ride in behind a horse. Heard the song 'love and marriage...go together like a horse and carriage"? Well, that's a carriage. We don't even have "baby carriages"; we have "prams" and "pushchairs". And there is no English word for "corral" in the sense of a place to put things. We might say the 'trolley bay" but this is not an official term.
SC, it's EASY. Whoever gets there first, goes first. If it is a tie, the person on the right goes first. If you two are facing eachother, then the person going straight has the right of way.
My pet peeve is people who have a diversion to putting their freakin carriages in the corral(whatever its called). esp when the corral is right near them and they are not disabled...I would like to take the carriage and RAM it into their car and see how they like it...I am tired of my care being a carriage magnet.
I had absolutely no idea what this post was talking about at first. It took me a full 2 minutes to work out its meaning. Here is the English translation:
"My pet peeve is people who have an aversion to putting their"...
well "freakin" is a very American word. I know what is stands for, but we don't use it over here, so, to continue:
"to putting their flaming supermarket trolleys back where they belong."
I really did not understand a word of this at first. There was no context to tell me what "carriage" meant. Here, a carriage is something was used 100 years ago to ride in behind a horse. Heard the song 'love and marriage...go together like a horse and carriage"? Well, that's a carriage. We don't even have "baby carriages"; we have "prams" and "pushchairs". And there is no English word for "corral" in the sense of a place to put things. We might say the 'trolley bay" but this is not an official term.
Phew. It's hard work learning a new language.
I didn't have as hard a time as you, but I did wonder what carriages were. We call them "carts"/"shopping carts." The "freaking" isn't only American, it's Canadian too. And BTW, we DO call them "cart corrals."
...Okay, "diversion" is my own stilly language...The correct word IS "aversion". And I just asked my son what he calls the things you push around in a grocery store..He said "shopping CART" and as usual he said the old people call it a carriage.
He hates when I call Pepsi, tonic (old people call it that)....That is not an old people thing it is strictly a Boston thing and my mom grew up in Boston. I get all my "old" people language from her. Okay done rambling.
SC, it's EASY. Whoever gets there first, goes first. If it is a tie, the person on the right goes first. If you two are facing each other, then the person going straight has the right of way.
Let me tell you when this "rule" doesn't work so well. A few days ago, I drove into town and pulled up to the 4-way stop. Simultaneously, a car pulled up to my right and a motorcycle pulled up to my left. I had the right-of-way to the motorcycle, but the car had the right-of-way to me. So, for about 10 seconds we all sat there and watched each other, until finally the cyclist waved for me to go first. But it was a VERY odd 10 seconds!
And what's up with people who pull up to 4-way stops and are scared to actually GO when they HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY!! Oh, no - there they sit, waving at me wildly to move when they're supposed to go! What the H???
Stop talking about me!
If you will insist on having something that does not occur anywhere else in the world, then you just have to put up with our nervousness when we visit!
I really enjoy people who exit their vehicles and commence to walk down the MIDDLE of the aisle at a leisurely pace to get to their destination, meanwhile cars creep up behind them waiting for them to get the heck outta the flippin waaaaaaayyyyyy
Oh my goodness you're at the mall on a Sunday for crying out loud! What's all the rush about? You're going to be walking around for 4 hours once you get inside anyway! If you wanted to get in and out, you'd go on your lunch hour or something. Talk about unreasonable expectations My kids are kind of pokey, staring at their cell phone and texting while they walk down the middle of the road and all, but c'mon, they're having important conversations LOL. Why would they want to hurry up for your convenience?
NewEveryDay...it's unfortunate that the conditions which I was describing occur frequently at 11am at the local grocery store/hardware store/insert whateverstoreyouaregoingto It seems that people, in general just have no scruples anymore.
I am a pretty patient person, to boot, so i can't imagine what some road-rager might do under those same conditions. I simply and wait until the kings and queens of america get outta the way.
I thought of another one. People who talk on their cell phones while in line at the checkouts. I work in a major retailer as a return desk associate. Their phone rings and they answer it. SERIOUSLY? Is someone on FIRE? What could be so important? Then they say, "No it's okay, I am almost done. I am just at the cashier right now."
Even worse though. I used to work at Wendy's. How many times did I hear the ding go off to signal a car. I would say, "Welcome to Wendy's, can I take your order please." Only to hear, "ring, ring, Hello, hey......." REALLY? just order your darn burger and go away.
When I was young, we didn't even have an answering machine or call waiting. If someone didn't answer, you called them later, or you actually walked down to their house. If it was busy, it was because they were talking to someone else.
Scotty, I used to work at Caldor...they are all closed now...but I used to work the register and then a few times they put me on returns...Well returns were 42 on the register and sales were 2...The whole day I was so used to being on the register that I forgot to put the 4 in front of the 2....Well everyones returns were rung up as sales...Mwahahahahaha!!!!
Why do people get on here and want to get help to fix there marriage, then they don't follow the steps from the MB site, then go to plan FU and watch their marriage fall apart???
I thought of another one. People who talk on their cell phones while in line at the checkouts. I work in a major retailer as a return desk associate. Their phone rings and they answer it. SERIOUSLY? Is someone on FIRE? What could be so important? Then they say, "No it's okay, I am almost done. I am just at the cashier right now."
My phone went off while I was checking out at the grocery store and I ignored it. The cashier asked me, "Are you going to answer that?" I told her no, I was going to finish my transaction with her. It annoyed her!
Now that I think about it, I should have silenced it. Duh. I guess a ringing phone is annoying. The most annoying ringtone I've heard was in an English class...there was a girl who hadn't silenced hers (as she should have in class! At least I do that), and someone called.
Imagine this: a deep malevolent male voice saying, "I'm calling you. You hear me calling you? Pick up the dam phone! Hey! I'm CALLING you, you *bleeping* *bleep* you better pick up the dam phone!" Totally creepy.
Our professor asked her, "How can you stand that?"
I had student in a parenting class I taught whose phone sounded like a meowing cat. I kept looking for this poor kitty.
Mine is a whistle, actually it's wheels whistle (he recorded it and sent it to me, so I saved it and put it for my text ring) so each time I get a text it whistles at me and every time, I get people looking at me. lol
If you watch Family Guy, then you know there is a famous clip where Stewie is calling his mom over and over and over: "Mama, Mommie, mama, mom....." That was my ring tone for a couple of hours. It was too much like real life, so I changed it.
If you watch Family Guy, then you know there is a famous clip where Stewie is calling his mom over and over and over: "Mama, Mommie, mama, mom....." That was my ring tone for a couple of hours. It was too much like real life, so I changed it.
I Loooovvvveee Family guy...and this is hysterical...love it, love it, love it....
Sorry for the kinda gross and TMI rant in advance but hoping I am not the only one with this problem...
Why can I teach my smartypants Havanese doggy to do almost every trick in the book (by 4 mos old by the way) but now at age 2 I still can't teach him to do his business outside? He's lucky he's so cute because this is frustrating...
My 7 month old border collie/shepherd has it backwards. I take her outside for HOURS and the MINUTE she walks into the dining room she does her "business." ARGH So FRUSTRATING.
Thought of another one. When you are in a PUBLIC washroom and someone else answers their cell phone. WTH? I don't want your friend/mother/husband listening to me in the john. AHHHHHHHHHH
Yeah, Scottie, that's the thing with me too, I bring them out, they go #1. Come back inside...five minutes later there is a #2 gift for me in the dining room
luri, I did post one on the pet thread a while back but then deleted it (I am a little paranoid about posting pics online!) But I will try to figure out how to post one here again.
Susie and Scottie....I have one who insists on doing #1 just before I wake up every morning...no matter what how early or late I wake up...its like he knows! Another goes out goes #1, comes in and waits for the other two to come in and us all to go back upstairs and then does #2 all over my living room. I love tile floors!!!!!
Our doggy is part cat. She's lovable at times (hence, the name Luvey) and adorable. This morning we couldn't find her anywhere, searched high and low. She never goes outside alone because we always walk her with a leash to do her business.
We suspected that our 3 year-old grandson had let her out while we weren't looking. Eventually, we went to the pound to see if she'd been picked up and then filed a missing doggy report.
On the way home, while we were lamenting about what could have possibly happened to her, I suggested that we ring the doorbell when we get home, just in case. Sure enough, we hear a faint bark coming from upstairs in our room. Low and behold, we find her in our closet, inside a partially zipped suitcase, where she'd been (ignoring us) the whole time. Crazy dog!!
TWICE I have been in the ladies bathroom and I hear the person next to me in the stall holding a full on conversation as they do their thing! Are you serious?!?!
Do we need a sign in the bathrooms; "For the privacy of our guests, please turn off cell phones in the bathroom??"
We sure do. Like what they tell you when you are at the movies or a show. I DO NOT talk on a phone anywhere near the bathroom. My friends and family seem to hold themselves to a different standard however. It is the worst when I am talking to a friend and then I hear a flush. SERIOUSLY. If you needed to go to the bathroom, don't answer the phone, or tell me you will call me right back. That's what I do. Even better is the time that my sister called me and she was brushing her teeth. I couldn't understand a darn thing she was saying.
PM, I saw that story about your doggy on FB. That is pretty funny. Whoever thought about ringing the bell was PURE GENIUS.
ETA Just re-read your post. Guess my kiddos talked to me the first time round. YOU are a GENIUS.
TWICE I have been in the ladies bathroom and I hear the person next to me in the stall holding a full on conversation as they do their thing! Are you serious?!?!
I know people who enjoy playing games on their cell phones whilst tending to mother nature. I tell them they now have POO PHONE.
Originally Posted by CP
So does that apply to posting? Maybe I should take the PC out of the bathroom then
Um...POOOOOOOO PC
I have never needed entertainment in the bathroom, but heated toilet seats would be nice
I need to rant for a second. Why do the words "I'm married" not phase some people?!?!?!?
I am at a work conference and the past two nights my bosses have been making fun of me for "turning in" at 8:30 (right after dinner ends and when the drinking starts) I go to the lectures, attend the company dinner and then come back to my room to read, call WH, and get some sleep. So, tonight I stayed for the party.
I tried to surround myself with other women, or married couples, but would occasionally find myself alone. I ended up getting hit on a number of times. While somewhat flattering- I would quickly steer the conversation to my husband and family, thinking that they would get the clue- but it didn't phase these guys.
Why do people have NO respect for the sanctity of marriage??? No wonder it's so "easy" for waywards to fall into an A- the world is apparently full of people who are just dying to be the OP
I'm frustrated with WH for not resisting the temptation when I do, with myself for listening to my boss and joining the party tonight, and with every single man who didn't take the hint. I am particularly frustrated with one man who approached me several times and then called me several vile names when I finally said "listen, I'm married. That means that I have absolutely no interest in you and would prefer to never speak to you again. please go buy someone else a drink"
Okay, I didn't know where else to write this and since I am angry about it, I figured this was the best place. Unfortunately, I am not going to be able to read any of the responses this may create until sometime tomorrow afternoon/evening.
I have seen posters on here who are vets and long time posters say some things that have driven me NUTTY.
What it is about is Plan B. I have read SAA, HNHN and almost everything written on this website. I BELIEVE in MB and DrH.
What drives me nutty is when people start talking about how easy it is to go to Plan B. How even though the BS is in Plan B they won't be harmed by seeing the WS at football games. How Plan B is only for personal recovery and too bad your marriage is not going to be saved by going into Plan B.
Then, we get the argument that a WW is not going to come back. There is a greater chance that a WH will come back.
Okay, let me tell it the way I see it. I see DrH telling BW to be in Plan A for 3-4 weeks and then moving onto Plan B. Does that mean that DrH thinks that there is no way that their marriage can be saved? Not from what I have read. DrH suggests this because the emotional toll that an active affair takes on a BS is tremendous and a lot of BWs wind up with PTSD and worse from dealing with it for a longer period of time.
Also, why not talk about one of the reasons for Plan B, out lasting the affair. MOST affairs(according to DrH) end within 2 years of exposure. The stats for affairs being longlasting are documented to be quite low(3%?). Removing the BS from the equation, especially in the case of a cake-eating spouse actually, as I understand, puts increased pressure on the affair as the OP now needs to meet all of the WSs ENs and the fog tends to lighten.
I understand that there are risks in going into PLan B, BUT I see more benefits from it then negatives. A DARK Plan B should most definitely be preceded by a spectacular Plan A(both carrot and stick).
OAN, I have been in Plan B for almost 10 months. I have grown a lot in that time and I have come to a time where I feel some peace. I am NOT ready to say that my marriage is over, yet. That time may come. But, for now, I am going to keep as dark as possible to ensure the best possible outcome for ME. Staying DARK keeps my emotions better in check and I am able to think more clearly. If I had done a half-azzed Plan B or allowed more "casual" contact, I don't believe that I would have been able to get to where I am today.
Scotty, I think you're a Plan B superstar. I think your understanding of it is spot-on, as well, and your thread will be referred to on here for years to come.
You've set a great example for your family and those here.
Agree totally with you scotty. Plan B is the best way to seerate yourself from pain and also to let WS see if they have issues, its thier problem.
So many people blame thier spouse for thier unhappiness and then the OW or other or OM come along and they buy a fantasy. Really they just don't want to look at themselves.
Plan B and a dark one is the best way to separate them from you so they have a chance to see themselves. Its really an act of love towards them because they have thier head up thier &&*(.
I think you are doing great and an example to many. Truth is you are growing and he has head in sand. Keep insisting on a good marriage or none at all scotty.
Plan B definaty does NOT mean the marriage is over and all you can do is personnaly recover. These people are still looking at the sin, not the sinner. We all screw up in some way. Do we have to learn from our foolish mistakes? Do we require forgiveness for restoration after taking accoutabilty for the stupid things we do?
All we can ask for is true remorse and a heart that is willing to change from our WS. Plan B is giving them the chance for that. If they don't recover themselves then its thier loss. We are just not going to hide from truth or live in a relationship that does. Thats Plan B. If they ever see it.
ya know, reading this thread is depressing because so many of your rants are about me! Barbiecat, its ok to talk on your cell phone in the ladies room as long as you don't flush!
My rant is speed traps! We have them all over my town.
My rant is my ex telling me he's "so happy I finally found somebody and am finally happy". I wanted to strangle the s$ith#ad. I got that last week. And another gem: "I am so happy you found somebody who could love you like you deserve."
My answer was "yea, I sure deserved happiness, love, and honesty didn't I? I deserve every bit of all of that now and a thousand times over."
I also said "Our wedding pics are truly amazing. I showed them to X (his present w who is divorcing him) and she said they were the best she'd ever seen."
And yes, I did enjoy that. I even facebook'd em. He he. After posting the pics it lit up like a christmas tree with responses. Lovin' it;. Why is it I still enjoy revenge like that? Oh well.
I just wanted to take a brief moment to rant about something...
I just don't get why is it that, whenever I hear of a married person in a legal separation dating someone and I point out that they shouldn't be dating because they are MARRIED, the usual response is: "well, he (or she) is legally separated."
I then say, "They should get a divorce first before they date." At this point I usually get a blank look before they quickly change the subject or walk away.
I'm not sure why I even bother because apparently I'm the only one who views it this way? I'm curious to know other MBers' take on this...
Yep....if you're married you're married. If you're divorced you're not. If you're separated....you're still married.
However, the only reason I "get that" is because that is what I was always taught AND I have been here for a little while. If someone goes out with a separated guy, marries him, and then finds out 5 years later that it was wrong.......then maybe they should get just an itsy bit of slack.
You are not the only one who views it that way. I have been seperated for 2 yrs and 5 months and people are always saying things like "Why don't you date, he does?" or "You would feel so much better if you could just find someone to love" or "why don'yt you let me set you up with...." and the list goes on. and I don't get it. When I yell them I can't i'm married their typical response is "So, he's doing it" That drives me nuts!!!! So what if he's doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
DIL4L, I get that too and have been since pretty much Day 1 and it's been 10 months since WH left.
I believe that for me, you don't date when you are married, I wouldn't however, stop talking to someone who is dating while separated. I do feel like it crosses the line but if they were having an affair on someone who was unaware and was living as a married couple, I would not talk to them, after I told them how wrong it was of course.
My sister started dating her boyfriend while she was separated, after her EXH left her for OW and moved across the country. My BIL is still legally married, and dating someone, although my SIL moved in with her OM 5 years ago.
I wouldn't actually do it myself and if they had asked me, I would have told them to D first.
I think it is part of the new selfish culture that has been created. Everyone is worried about how to make THEMSELVES happy and not worry about others. There are still a few people who care about others, but it's not a lot.
Yeah, to me when your married it is a commitment to the world and before God. If I am seperated, and date while still married, its like my word and commitments mean nothing. What they are doing has nothing to do with what I do with myself, I don't have to sink to that point. I do think it would be sinking too.
It shows that the marriage really meant nothing to me in the first place. Which might have something to do with the separation.
If you wanna date someone be single or divorced first, have some guts and character.
You are not the only one who views it that way. I have been seperated for 2 yrs and 5 months and people are always saying things like "Why don't you date, he does?" or "You would feel so much better if you could just find someone to love" or "why don'yt you let me set you up with...." and the list goes on. and I don't get it. When I yell them I can't i'm married their typical response is "So, he's doing it" That drives me nuts!!!! So what if he's doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Or the other end of the spectrum, I am D but not ready to date (if ever). All I hear is "you will meet someone new"; "you need someone to help you pay bills"; "jump back on that horse" and the list goes on. Thank you I am not interested in looking for my next prince frog.
Why does everyone think that the cure for a divorce is another man.
Totally agree about the dating while separated thing.
I have browsed an internet dating site just to see what it was all about. I was absoluted galled by the number of women whe were actively looking for partners, but listed their status as "separated".
So they are basically out trolling the internet and advertising to the world that they are actively seeking adultery partners.
You date when you are ready. In our case, as BS we are hurt and trusting is a big issue. It is also important to know what kind of R you want with a man. If it is only sex, then call it sex not a R. If it is a serious more involved R, then that takes time. No, another man is not the solution nor is a dog, IMO. I prefer people to dogs. But respect dog lovers. blessing
Rant on: The recent indiscriminate and insincere use of the words "heartfelt" and "heartfully". The host on the sing off show introduces a song as a group's "heartfelt presentation of a Christmas song." A newspaper article is titled "A Heartfelt Gift to You" and then discusses people's opinions. A letter to the editor of our local paper gives a "heartfelt" thank you letter. And a year ago, the OW sent me an email (that her husband forced her to write) that said she was "heartfully sorry" (as if she really has a heart). OK, so it is really that last one that has me ranting - but has this word really been so overused or am I just noticing it? Rant off.
And a year ago, the OW sent me an email (that her husband forced her to write) that said she was "heartfully sorry" (as if she really has a heart).
Thanks for the laugh AM. This is what popped in my head when I read your rant. If she only had a brain, or a heart or courage.... Obviously she has none of them.
Nope, she is emptier than the tin man. In my thoughts, I had often compared OW to the "Wicked Witch of the East" (although that does not really apply since she lives in Atlanta). If only I could dump some water on her and melt her.
Ok here is my rant and it is about some BS that post here.
I know you are hurting, I am too. Some of us BS out here would love be where you are now. You have all the evidence you need to expose. You are given great advice over and over again from the wonderful people on this board that want to help you. Yet you still don't expose and make excuses as to why you can't expose. I feel like shaking you and screaming "EXPOSE! You have the power right in your hands. Don't let WS keep the power. EXPOSE!" You can bet your life I will expose as soon as I have what I need to do so. WH is already gone he just doesn't see it yet. (So isn't your WS.) Exposure is the only way to get him to face what he is doing to his family.
He is right now: *incarcerated *going thru a D w/the xow, aka Ms. Family Values *hasn't paid cs in close to 2 yrs *demands to see my ds on visitations at his prison (I have full custody), which my ds doesn't want to do, as he hates going there and refuses to go *so upsetting my ds and his dd (the child of xow and my son's half sis) with the prison requests, nonstop text messaging (since when do you get to text from prison?), and demands from me.
I am so sick and tired of him! And worse, the outlaws (my x inlaws) who enabled my x every step of the way, and who lied about my xfil and his status (he had an ema w/underage girl, yea a man of over 55 years) as he is now classified as an "offender" and never told me, are demanding to also see my son.
My son is heartbroken this Christmas yet again due to his dad and his wayward ways. He is getting a divorce from his x ow, and cheated on her so bad it made what he did to me almost look comical. So now my son sees his half sister (the ow was pregnant in our case, the now stbxw) and I have a good relationship w/xow and her child.
When oh when does it end with a wayward? Now what freaks the hell outta me is the fact THIS man will be getting out of white collar crime pad soon and will probably be getting a new gf asap, since nobody has apparently met his wayward needs for almost 2 years. Thus, my son will have to possibly see another woman in the life of his dad and his half sister will become even more confused than she is now. My x now has accomplished TWO BROKEN HOMES in less than seven years. Two count em! What kind of person does that? I mean, I had so hoped he had learned his lesson from the pain he put my ds and I through, but now he's dragging his little girl and my ds again thru this mess. Grrrrr!
My ds cried last night and I am going to get a visitation planned with his half sister next week, we are going to pick out her presents too, and do something really fun w/her. It's so sad to see my son re-living the pain of the divorce yet again . It is just not fair.
I am also an inch off getting a r.o. against my outlaws, b/c they bombard me with texts, vm's etc and emails asking when they can come get my son and take him to see his dad (in jail about 70 miles away). I am not allowing my son around a man who is an offender and the sheer fact they enabled the x for so many years, muchless LIED TO ME HE MOM of my ds, for over 5 years regarding the ema of my xfil (he has cheated on xmil so many times) and the underage girl and court decision.
Oh yea, I actually somehow have a normal life aside from all of this. Sometimes if a ws never wakes up and repents, I fear they are all condemned to a life of living hell on earth, like my wxh and his parents.
I mean, his poor dd just cries all the time for my ds (to see him more often) and now lives over an hour away, so I have to always arrange to get to see her (she's 7) and my ds doesn't understand why his dad is getting another divorce, although I have gently explained to him his dad did not learn his lesson after we had our divorce.
It makes me sick to know both of these children are so sad at Christmas b/c of infidelity. You can trace both of these sad children back to different cases of infidelity, both involving my xwh.
The xow I will have to say, moved in w/a relative, has been taking classes and is working full time (she was a sahm married to my x when he was making tons of money while I was all the while working my [censored] off) and for that I am glad to know. She is now walking the very path I took, little money, starting over at 33, single mom, etc.
But now there are 2 devastated children.
My greatest fear is Darth gets out of jail soon, and of course either reunites with one of his xow, or meets another woman and then these two kids get to see their dad with yet another woman.
It is insane. Please, please if you are a WS, read what has happened here. It's like the scene in Christmas Carol where the ghost of Christmas yet to come shows Scrooge the dark scenes ahead of him. That could be you. I am ranting right now b/c my son wanted me to go the Hallmark Crown store nearby so he could get with me the recordable storybooks.
With tears in his eyes, he asked me to buy the book about the Christmas story, so he could read the story of Jesus' birth to his little sister, who he never gets to see often, because his dad is yet again getting a divorce.
The affairage lasted less than 5 years. According to affairage stats, that's like a lifetime!..(evil, dark smile here). Ya'll know they don't last. It's crazy why people do things like that. But you know, if they do marry the OP, bad things will ensue.
Damn I want these evil WS out there to know of this! Your itchy crotches HURT CHILDREN! Adultery doesn't just kill marriages, it kills families.
Rant on: The recent indiscriminate and insincere use of the words "heartfelt" and "heartfully". The host on the sing off show introduces a song as a group's "heartfelt presentation of a Christmas song." A newspaper article is titled "A Heartfelt Gift to You" and then discusses people's opinions. A letter to the editor of our local paper gives a "heartfelt" thank you letter. And a year ago, the OW sent me an email (that her husband forced her to write) that said she was "heartfully sorry" (as if she really has a heart). OK, so it is really that last one that has me ranting - but has this word really been so overused or am I just noticing it? Rant off.
AM
How about putting the word heartfelt in everything we say, so we don't get bopped on the head cuz we are so sorry?
Kinda like Boo-hoo, I can't help it, what do I do? Them we can dive right back into the same crap that is drowning us.
Misery sure loves company huh?
Funny post AM, Happy Holidays. Not from a heartfelt place, if you know what I mean.
They both sounded like they were entitled nuts to me, "He bounds into a room", "She has a strong handshake, is petite and sucessful free-lance" "They did an evil thing with as much honor as possible"
What a load of bull lol. I guess they will go on being "Legends in thier own minds".
�My kids are going to look at me and know that I am flawed and not perfect, but also deeply in love,� she said. �We�re going to have a big, noisy, rich life, with more love and more people in it.�
They will need that noise to drown out any conscience that might try to creep in.
They both sounded like they were entitled nuts to me, "He bounds into a room", "She has a strong handshake, is petite and sucessful free-lance" "They did an evil thing with as much honor as possible"
What a load of bull lol. I guess they will go on being "Legends in thier own minds".
I don't know what makes me want to more. Them or the people who hear their story and say "Isn't that wonderful!"
He wanted a promise that the kids would be alright. They are "soul mates" and they have "unconditional love." What TURDS.
Also, I think it is interesting that they tried to say that they didn't have an affair. Really? Who are you trying to kid? How do you fall in love with someone else while married WITHOUT having an affair first? They may want us to believe that they didn't do the nasty before they left each others spouses, but they MOST DEFINITELY had an affair. Now, they have an affairage. I will be on the lookout for them showing up soon enough for some help. I for one, WON'T be helping THEM.
Posters who pose one way on MB and another elsewhere. That's all I'm sayin....
There is a word or words to describe them, but hypocrite and gutless, souless ,wasted and spineless just doesn't seem to do it justice. Lost is too nice, because that would assume that nobody ever showed them the way.
Maybe they are just trying out the place to see if it suits them, or if they are comfortable.
One comforting thing though, MB works if you use it, and doesn't leave a place to play act in, so those trying to use it without respecting it, only hurt themselves. Those doing it know it is the way to live, and wouldn't live anyway else, reguardless of the outcome. It is about healthy living and loving from a perspective outside ourselves, or our own, as much as it is for us to rise above the selfishness of this world, and the lies so often sold or bought.
So those pretending to be married and not fully embracing how precious it is, lose out. Those who embrace it and still live in the reality that they need to constantly care for the marriage and are never quite satisfied with themselves probably are still searching how to become better spouses, and don't feel the need to pretend, and attempt to sell others.
It is what it is, and any amount of pretending or posing just wastes time, and those who pose, just fool themselves.
My Rant, The letter killeth, but the spirit bring life. Now I have no way to prove I was right all along, and everyone else was mistaking me.------------ Yeah right, God help me if that was the case.
TawandaB I remember a joke by George Carlin, He was talking about words we can say on TV. We can say "Well you have made a perfect azz out of yourself tonight", but you can't say, "You half-azz"
He finished up the joke with "Only perfect azzs allowed",(on TV he meant, according to the censors)
But it is notable that people are so attracted to what is perfect, also known as an eros love, from the God Eros, who meant beautiful and perfect, and also where the word erotica comes from.
But they don't see the beauty in people who are not perfect, or fail, and need support, not critisism and a cold shoulder, Just real truth, understanding, and time from such, well excuse me, perfect people.
Thinking we are perfect or we would not fall in certain situations, or that in order to help people scare tactics without understanding will preserve them from ever asking why or falling to temptation. Well that isn't enough to secure thier safety is it? Or is the law, without the reasons behind it, able to be obeyed by someone who is truly free?
Or do we need to be loved and guided from somewhere outside our own emotions, our own human science and experience, our own perception of what is perfect, in order to really love? How wishy washy does that get, when we take out all the rules we must live by, and try to be God for everybody, because we don't want to be "legalistic".
Its a big subject, and us humans can't answer all the questions involved with it, but we can choose to love whomever we want, and sacrifice what we will for them, and not whine about it later, beleiving what we did was what we thought was the right thing at the time, even if it turned out different than we hoped and planned, worked and sacrificed for. If our intentions meant anything, it was good in Gods eyes if it was intended to be.
We cannot be God for others, but we can listen to His guidance in the caring for ourselves and we have a right to stand for those spiritual laws that keep us safe, and avoid the pitfalls others might be heading for, and help them see them coming. Lets hope those actions are done with sensitivity and understanding, but not beating around the bush to much, and the balance of those two atributes will lead to understanding for others.
On beauty; I don't love my wife because she is beautiful (and she is), she is beautiful because I love her. I can see beauty even in her imperfections.
Actually, as I was lying in bed, I realized I had got it wrong. For example, Christianity itself isn't legalistic. But some Christians with a certain "personality bent" are.
My rant for the day...people who don't slow down on roads slick with rain! There is a reason for multiple single car spin outs clogging the highways. S L O W D O W N!~
Actually, as I was lying in bed, I realized I had got it wrong. For example, Christianity itself isn't legalistic. But some Christians with a certain "personality bent" are.
That applies to many things in life.
Yeah, wasn't it wise of God to limit what we could teach, and give, one another so they could get love from him? The law is limited is it not? Myself I beleive that the word of God works once we allow ourselves to be reduced. Kinda like God is the perfect "head-shrinker".
There are certain, "personality bent types" who get desparate and seek to control people thru the law. We can only thank and understand them for bringing our focus to our own behavior, but nobody will follow someone who has made a slave out of them and not rebel. It is the spirit of love we will follow to our deaths, because it transcends death, and even gives death meaning in life.
There is where the law, or legalism, has no power over the love of God for us, and where God can reach us, if we let Him.
God is a gentlemen, and the hard realities we face are gifts we can choose to embrace, or deny at our own detriment to ourselves or others. We are free to make choices, and the consequences that result are our way to learn that life is preciuos, short, and valuable beyond our own perception.
I think that is the lesson I still am learning, and one that we all learn in different ways all our life. That is why we so many times hate the law and its realities it brings until we learn to accept it is good, and why so many of us kill each other with the letter of it.
We are human, and our perception is faulted, it will allways be that way. We don't know what is missing from people or why they make mistakes really, we ussually try to reach them by pointing out the obvious, and the pitfalls we too have fallin into, but thier realization that they are loved, and valuable must come from inside themselves, and from a realationship with the character of of something beyond our own understanding. To know that is comforting, and encourages us to look up and not feel alone.
But people will only see what they want to, and only trust what they see, as it is revealed to thier inner being, and that in time.
Its not magic, its reality, and we could never see it all at once, we are not that strong. But we share the truth hoping to make the world a better place, for us first, but then for others also, and that connection to God and a spirit of love, is tottally between God and the individual.
God sure was wise in that huh? Heck, he knew what was in man, that was probably why he reserved that relationship for Himself. Only He could love us like we needed, and he knew man would turn the law into slavery in his ignorance.
My rant for the day...people who don't slow down on roads slick with rain! There is a reason for multiple single car spin outs clogging the highways. S L O W D O W N!~
Don't even get me started about people and driving in SNOW. I live in Canada, we get snow EVERY winter. It's not something NEW. It's not like, "SURPRISE IT'S SNOWING." ARGH
LOL! HeadHeldHigh & all the rest of the posters here who actually have something to say about rants. There are groanings for which the Spirit can only give utterance to - one of them being the utter destruction of the very ultimate covenant a man & woman can make to one another before God on this planet. So, it is as this post suggests, "IMVHO as a newbie (almost 3 months since Dday), I have to say that the harshness thing doesn't quite sit well with me. This situation, by its very nature, is HARSH. I have never felt this kind of pain or worked this hard for anything in my life! I feel like I am fighting for my life!! If a WS comes on here and feels they are judged too "harshly", so be it. How "harsh" do they think their BS views the actions of someone they trusted completely and implicitly who then took a huge crap on their marriage and everything they believed to be true? Now, do I see the pain in my H's eyes every time I look at him? Yes. Do I feel sorry for him? Sometimes, but that is the protector in me that hurts when someone I love hurts. However, I am being stripped of everything I knew of my life, piece by piece, day by day. I look in the mirror and see another woman looking back at me and I don't always recognize who she is. My life and my future are so up in the air right now, if I really let it get stuck in my brain, the fear will consume me. I think a great deal of what is wrong with our society in general is that we seem to be focused on making people feel "accepted" and "validated". Its just like when my boys played little league baseball - you got a trophy at the end of the season just for showing up. Everybody got one, regardless of performance. If you are gonna be rewarded no matter what, then what is the motivation for doing your best? I may be overstepping my boundaries by speaking my mind, but if you are a WS and you feel that you are being treated "harshly", baby, you brought it on yourself. We BS, on the other hand, would not have chosen to travel this path in a million years...but then we were not given a choice, were we?"
This is true, and a WS who is truly repentant actually lives with the repentant heart DAILY, hourly, etc... I know. I've seen it. My Father is one of those people. My WS/still spouse is not willing to acknowledge the hurt, or if he does it is, "Well, I'm sorry you're hurt, but it is going beyond a healthy level..." Excuse me???? HEALTHY LEVEL? You cheated on me - you gave yourself whole heartedly to another and I'm the one who is insane & unhealthy ?? WTH???
IMHO, reconcilation cannot and will not beging until true repentance is sought out & brought before another person. For my Father, it took being completely cut off from his family for a year. I will not forget the change that has happen & continued to happen in his heart. I know what legalism is in the church, and unfortunately, my WS exhibits that behavior daily. His battle? He wants me to say it all "nicely" & with 'respect' . When I did that x 3 months (after having our first baby), three men in our church came & confronted him on how he had been treating me. My WS's response to me was, "don't you think you were playing a victim role?"
Yeah, talk about sickening attempts of manipulation. It doesn't work with me. It doesn't work in marriage. He has tried continually to get me to "accept" what happened - God does not require acceptance of sin, but hatred of it.
I just wanted to sa, thanks to all who are being real out there. The most respectful thing a WS can do is seek a same-gendered support group where they have accountability ... and not bring up how they feel for a while (unless asked by the betrayed spouse).
LOL! HeadHeldHigh & all the rest of the posters here who actually have something to say about rants. There are groanings for which the Spirit can only give utterance to - one of them being the utter destruction of the very ultimate covenant a man & woman can make to one another before God on this planet. So, it is as this post suggests, "IMVHO as a newbie (almost 3 months since Dday), I have to say that the harshness thing doesn't quite sit well with me. This situation, by its very nature, is HARSH. I have never felt this kind of pain or worked this hard for anything in my life! I feel like I am fighting for my life!! If a WS comes on here and feels they are judged too "harshly", so be it. How "harsh" do they think their BS views the actions of someone they trusted completely and implicitly who then took a huge crap on their marriage and everything they believed to be true? Now, do I see the pain in my H's eyes every time I look at him? Yes. Do I feel sorry for him? Sometimes, but that is the protector in me that hurts when someone I love hurts. However, I am being stripped of everything I knew of my life, piece by piece, day by day. I look in the mirror and see another woman looking back at me and I don't always recognize who she is. My life and my future are so up in the air right now, if I really let it get stuck in my brain, the fear will consume me. I think a great deal of what is wrong with our society in general is that we seem to be focused on making people feel "accepted" and "validated". Its just like when my boys played little league baseball - you got a trophy at the end of the season just for showing up. Everybody got one, regardless of performance. If you are gonna be rewarded no matter what, then what is the motivation for doing your best? I may be overstepping my boundaries by speaking my mind, but if you are a WS and you feel that you are being treated "harshly", baby, you brought it on yourself. We BS, on the other hand, would not have chosen to travel this path in a million years...but then we were not given a choice, were we?"
This is true, and a WS who is truly repentant actually lives with the repentant heart DAILY, hourly, etc... I know. I've seen it. My Father is one of those people. My WS/still spouse is not willing to acknowledge the hurt, or if he does it is, "Well, I'm sorry you're hurt, but it is going beyond a healthy level..." Excuse me???? HEALTHY LEVEL? You cheated on me - you gave yourself whole heartedly to another and I'm the one who is insane & unhealthy ?? WTH???
IMHO, reconcilation cannot and will not beging until true repentance is sought out & brought before another person. For my Father, it took being completely cut off from his family for a year. I will not forget the change that has happen & continued to happen in his heart. I know what legalism is in the church, and unfortunately, my WS exhibits that behavior daily. His battle? He wants me to say it all "nicely" & with 'respect' . When I did that x 3 months (after having our first baby), three men in our church came & confronted him on how he had been treating me. My WS's response to me was, "don't you think you were playing a victim role?"
Yeah, talk about sickening attempts of manipulation. It doesn't work with me. It doesn't work in marriage. He has tried continually to get me to "accept" what happened - God does not require acceptance of sin, but hatred of it.
I just wanted to sa, thanks to all who are being real out there. The most respectful thing a WS can do is seek a same-gendered support group where they have accountability ... and not bring up how they feel for a while (unless asked by the betrayed spouse).
LOL! HeadHeldHigh & all the rest of the posters here who actually have something to say about rants. There are groanings for which the Spirit can only give utterance to - one of them being the utter destruction of the very ultimate covenant a man & woman can make to one another before God on this planet. So, it is as this post suggests, "IMVHO as a newbie (almost 3 months since Dday), I have to say that the harshness thing doesn't quite sit well with me. This situation, by its very nature, is HARSH. I have never felt this kind of pain or worked this hard for anything in my life! I feel like I am fighting for my life!! If a WS comes on here and feels they are judged too "harshly", so be it. How "harsh" do they think their BS views the actions of someone they trusted completely and implicitly who then took a huge crap on their marriage and everything they believed to be true? Now, do I see the pain in my H's eyes every time I look at him? Yes. Do I feel sorry for him? Sometimes, but that is the protector in me that hurts when someone I love hurts. However, I am being stripped of everything I knew of my life, piece by piece, day by day. I look in the mirror and see another woman looking back at me and I don't always recognize who she is. My life and my future are so up in the air right now, if I really let it get stuck in my brain, the fear will consume me. I think a great deal of what is wrong with our society in general is that we seem to be focused on making people feel "accepted" and "validated". Its just like when my boys played little league baseball - you got a trophy at the end of the season just for showing up. Everybody got one, regardless of performance. If you are gonna be rewarded no matter what, then what is the motivation for doing your best? I may be overstepping my boundaries by speaking my mind, but if you are a WS and you feel that you are being treated "harshly", baby, you brought it on yourself. We BS, on the other hand, would not have chosen to travel this path in a million years...but then we were not given a choice, were we?"
This is true, and a WS who is truly repentant actually lives with the repentant heart DAILY, hourly, etc... I know. I've seen it. My Father is one of those people. My WS/still spouse is not willing to acknowledge the hurt, or if he does it is, "Well, I'm sorry you're hurt, but it is going beyond a healthy level..." Excuse me???? HEALTHY LEVEL? You cheated on me - you gave yourself whole heartedly to another and I'm the one who is insane & unhealthy ?? WTH???
IMHO, reconcilation cannot and will not beging until true repentance is sought out & brought before another person. For my Father, it took being completely cut off from his family for a year. I will not forget the change that has happen & continued to happen in his heart. I know what legalism is in the church, and unfortunately, my WS exhibits that behavior daily. His battle? He wants me to say it all "nicely" & with 'respect' . When I did that x 3 months (after having our first baby), three men in our church came & confronted him on how he had been treating me. My WS's response to me was, "don't you think you were playing a victim role?"
Yeah, talk about sickening attempts of manipulation. It doesn't work with me. It doesn't work in marriage. He has tried continually to get me to "accept" what happened - God does not require acceptance of sin, but hatred of it.
I just wanted to sa, thanks to all who are being real out there. The most respectful thing a WS can do is seek a same-gendered support group where they have accountability ... and not bring up how they feel for a while (unless asked by the betrayed spouse).
Spot on. And that is why I think I have been able to make it as far as I feel I have, in the time I have.
Yes, FWW was a typical WS right from teh get-go. She followed the script, she denied until I snooped it out... then lied until my own Plan A and pressure for honesty broke the dishonesty.
I went nutty... tried to push her away and she refused to be pushed.
She withstood my Hiroshima-scale AO's (for me, I am really just not an angry person) and rather than steaming back or stomping off... would just hold me closer.
She is the daily, hourly repentant WS... and I am the inviting BS.
Sometimes it digs at me; this isn't what she had to do to "get my attention," she always had it. She just didn't realize that rejecting it at every turn except when she "thought" she needed it would drive me into myself.
Hell, neither did I.
Up until I withdrew, this was the husband I tried to be, but I was limited to her "convenience" as well as my own resources.
I have one.....My MIL, I am close with her....she understands my plan B (doesnt necessarily agree with it and doesnt know its a plan.)She knows about the part that it causes me pain to associate with him or talk about him...She says when she sees her relatives of course they ask how I am doing and she says fine....They ask if I am seeing anyone(none of their business anyway)and she says she doesnt think so....She says she doesnt tell them anything more, the details are no ones business.
Then they proceed to tell her that I need to move on and start seeing people. Get over it and stop waiting for my WH to come back...
Okay, first of all since when does moving on mean I have to be seeing someone or dating! Second, who says I am waiting for my WH just because I am not dating!!! (not my MIL, she didnt say that)...
Third, What is everyones obsession with me not dating yet!!!!!!! Who are they to say when it is time for me to date!!!! Is there some sort of time line that they know about. Leave my poor MIL alone, she does not need to be asked if her DIL is dating!!!!!...This is hurting her too....Just ask her how I am and leave it at that, the rest is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!!
"OH poor stilly, she isnt dating yet...that is so sad...she isnt over WH yet...Its been over three years and she needs to get over it."
I have one thing to say to these people..."Unless you have been through it....Keep your thoughtless opinions to yourself...AND NO I AM NOT DATING ANYONE YET GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!"
"OH poor stilly, she isnt dating yet...that is so sad...she isnt over WH yet...Its been over three years and she needs to get over it."
I would tell them you don't NEED a man in your life. You are happy with who you are. If, in the future a man comes along that deserves you then that is great. You are a great person and will not settle for anything less than a man that is right for you.
... There are groanings for which the Spirit can only give utterance to - one of them being the utter destruction of the very ultimate covenant a man & woman can make to one another before God on this planet. ..
If a WS comes on here and feels they are judged too "harshly", so be it. How "harsh" do they think their BS views the actions of someone they trusted completely and implicitly who then took a huge crap on their marriage and everything they believed to be true?..
IMHO, reconcilation cannot and will not beging until true repentance is sought out & brought before another person...
Yeah, talk about sickening attempts of manipulation. It doesn't work with me. It doesn't work in marriage. He has tried continually to get me to "accept" what happened - God does not require acceptance of sin, but hatred of it. ..
This whole post was awesome, just pickin out some highlights I really liked. Spoken like someone with conviction.
"OH poor stilly, she isnt dating yet...that is so sad...she isnt over WH yet...Its been over three years and she needs to get over it."
I would tell them you don't NEED a man in your life. You are happy with who you are. If, in the future a man comes along that deserves you then that is great. You are a great person and will not settle for anything less than a man that is right for you.
Yeah, Why do people do this anyway? Lol. I suppose they think they know better. Reminds me of the saying, "A friend in need is a PITA", sometimes they are.
"OH poor stilly, she isnt dating yet...that is so sad...she isnt over WH yet...Its been over three years and she needs to get over it."
I would tell them you don't NEED a man in your life. You are happy with who you are. If, in the future a man comes along that deserves you then that is great. You are a great person and will not settle for anything less than a man that is right for you.
Yeah, Why do people do this anyway? Lol. I suppose they think they know better. Reminds me of the saying, "A friend in need is a PITA", sometimes they are.
It is just so annoying, like I have no purpose unless I have a man in my life, like I need another relationship right now.....Do they think they are helping by giving this advice? I guess they mean well...Anyway, I do have a man in my life, my little man...DS is the focus of my life right now, along with me...and I am trying to "move on" by healing on the inside....
Give me a break people!!!!! I was with WH for 18 years!!! I am not even divorced yet! Just because he could dump me like a sack of potatoes, doesnt mean I am that way!!!!!
You could tell them that you aren't going to date while you're married because you don't do adultery. I bet that would shut them up.
I admire you, still. You are doing what is RIGHT instead of what "society" thinks is fine or what might bring temporary relief of loneliness or whatever. That means you have character.
Thank you, Tawanda....I think I will tell my MIL to tell them that we are still married and that I dont do adultery...I think she will like that one ....
This is really an anti-rant or a follow-up to one of my previous rants regarding Dr. Harley referring to the OW/OM as the "lover". That description upset me. On the radio show earlier this week, either Joyce or Dr Harley mentioned something along the lines, "We don't want to refer to the other person in the affair as the lover". Hearing this made me smile and also made me wonder how much gets passed along from this forum. I hope the new editions of Dr. Harley's books uses an alternative term and not "lover".
This is really an anti-rant or a follow-up to one of my previous rants regarding Dr. Harley referring to the OW/OM as the "lover". That description upset me. On the radio show earlier this week, either Joyce or Dr Harley mentioned something along the lines, "We don't want to refer to the other person in the affair as the lover". Hearing this made me smile and also made me wonder how much gets passed along from this forum. I hope the new editions of Dr. Harley's books uses an alternative term and not "lover".
In observance and RESPECT for MB TOS, I'll keep this generic.
There are other boards where I post where certain posters look for every opportunity to bash another board where I also post. I've lost respect for, AND trust of, some of the posters on those boards because of this.
On one board I finally asked: if another board is so BAD... why continue to read there?
Crickets to that direct question. Lots of deflecting and strawmen though.
I'm thankful that MB keeps our forums focused on MB (marriage building) by keeping out the junk. Seems like people on MB get much more sound advice as opposed to other places where the advice can range from A-Z and leave a newbie confused and sometimes in a dangerous place.
I'm thankful that MB keeps our forums focused on MB (marriage building) by keeping out the junk. Seems like people on MB get much more sound advice as opposed to other places where the advice can range from A-Z and leave a newbie confused and sometimes in a dangerous place.
/rant
I guess we are too busy trying to save marriages to trash other boards! I am also thankful for this board and for posters like you who contribute so much to others. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{PrincessMeggy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
In observance and RESPECT for MB TOS, I'll keep this generic.
There are other boards where I post where certain posters look for every opportunity to bash another board where I also post. I've lost respect for, AND trust of, some of the posters on those boards because of this.
On one board I finally asked: if another board is so BAD... why continue to read there?
Crickets to that direct question. Lots of deflecting and strawmen though.
I'm thankful that MB keeps our forums focused on MB (marriage building) by keeping out the junk. Seems like people on MB get much more sound advice as opposed to other places where the advice can range from A-Z and leave a newbie confused and sometimes in a dangerous place.
/rant
I'm glad you asked them that question, Meggy. I was lurking there and wondered the same thing. I don't think it's unhealthy to do some general gabbing now and then, but I am glad that the MB forums are structured enough to keep things on track. It really helps on my disorganized days!
..I'm thankful that MB keeps our forums focused on MB (marriage building) by keeping out the junk. Seems like people on MB get much more sound advice as opposed to other places where the advice can range from A-Z and leave a newbie confused and sometimes in a dangerous place.
..
Me too, Like it says in the TOS,"...These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others...", I am guessing that even though a disaster has brought them here, that they still are struggling with thier old way of thinking, trying to encorporate just enough of MB to not have to change it. They get offended because again when that way is challanged, it strikes a chord inside.
I think it says a lot that everyone puts up with that and just answers to any mis-guidance by pointing out where it doesn't line up with MB principles, which is healing for the mis-guided poster also.
I know it works for me, has helped me understand more about how important simple honest straightforward advice is the best way to get clarity and less drama. Many of us understand the pain of Adultry, but the key to Dr Hs success has been to concentrate on being and staying in love ,and dwelling on the past or figuring it out can definatly do the oppisite and keep people triggered while making the problems seem insurmoutable.
I have learned a lot that has helped me change my thinking habits here, and revisiting the pain is a waste of time.
I have a recurring mini-rant, sad observation. I don't understand how people expect success when they end up using the words "except" and "but" in applying MB principles.
Examples: There was full exposure EXCEPT to the OMW. I am in a dark plan B EXCEPT for .... those times I wasn't. My spouse and I are using the MB program, BUT we cannot find time for 15 hours of UA. My spouse has no contact with AP, EXCEPT at work (Why do I feel so bad?).
I learned the hard way about taking MB shortcuts. Maybe they would have worked in the long run; maybe not. It certainly made recovery VERY difficult for a long period of time - more than two years.
I donno about the "amen". But I do know that in taking my own inventory, gossip is not something that I have been proud to put on my resume. It's there. I am not proud.
Everyone has been a gossip. Gossip is so destructive it is prohibited by a commandment.
Quote
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Gossiping seems so innocent, but it is so very not innocent.
I have a recurring mini-rant, sad observation. I don't understand how people expect success when they end up using the words "except" and "but" in applying MB principles.
Examples: There was full exposure EXCEPT to the OMW. I am in a dark plan B EXCEPT for .... those times I wasn't. My spouse and I are using the MB program, BUT we cannot find time for 15 hours of UA. My spouse has no contact with AP, EXCEPT at work (Why do I feel so bad?).
I learned the hard way about taking MB shortcuts. Maybe they would have worked in the long run; maybe not. It certainly made recovery VERY difficult for a long period of time - more than two years.
AM
I try to build a habit of not speaking if whatever I say has a "but" attached to it. Butts stink.
Gossip reminds me of attention getting. I don't care about getting attention, but doing the wrong things to get attention like gossiping or worse cheating on a spouse, or attempting suicide when not getting the attention you want is so childish. Is there any other way to convey that you want attenition?
Everyone has been a gossip. Gossip is so destructive it is prohibited by a commandment.
Quote
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Gossiping seems so innocent, but it is so very not innocent.
There is also guidance in the scriptures about going to a brother and sister with something you have in your heart against them. I guess that would eliminate a lot of gossip, and require to get the guts to confront them too.
My Dad used to say, "If you don't have something nice to say about somebody, don't say anything at all"
Took me time to realize this was his shorthand lingo for a guy who did not read and write well, but had a lot of conviction. The wisdom is now apparent.
When a poster brings up a hot-bed issue, relating to thier personal life and R/L drama, and other posters give thier outlooks and experience...
Why do others think it is an opportunnity to attack others and get the thread locked?
The temptation to get on a soap-box and preach idealistic beliefs in a situation that calls for realistic views to help people think through conflicts, and ignore the facts and realitys of human nature, is just the opposite of what these forums are for.
The forum is to help people see that they are human, and to help them recover thier marriage through MB principles. The principles are based on facts and truths of human nature. If they are confused as to human nature and the results of adultry, we are here also to help them in that understanding. Not perpetuate the continuance of ignorance of wishful thinking and pointing out the obviuos fact that if we could all think before we acted, we might have acted differently.
I am reminded of someone who once said to me, "If you could just get them to think before they pushed the panic button". I said "Ok sure, when they are pushing the panic button, I will tell them that"
rant: people who say losing a pet is just like losing a child, especially from childless people who have lost an elderly pet. If you have an 18yo dog and an 18yo child, and they both die on the same day, really is it the SAME??
Rants are ok, folks, but restarting a debate from a locked thread is not. Please keep this in mind when you post your rants.
Thank you
Your welcome Fireproof, and I thank you for moderating any possible moving from one locked thread to another. I was not trying to do that. Just wanted to rant generically addressing how threads get locked.
I respect the authority of the moderators who need to keep this forum about MB and the application of the principles. Its those principles that will rebuild relationships and marraiges after all.
Wow, when I saw that Fireproof had the last post, I thought this thread had been locked. Then, I would have had a rant about no rant thread. I rant often; so, thanks for continuing to give me the opportunity to rant.
Rants are ok, folks, but restarting a debate from a locked thread is not. Please keep this in mind when you post your rants.
Thank you
I've neer been edited before!
Sorry Fireproof!
My rant is that all posters should stick to addressing the issues and questions asked by the posters, and should not try to interject their own, often irrelevant, opinions.
Todays rant, AP's who become engaged while still married to OTHER people. How is that even possible people? How can you get engaged to someone when you are married? Do you not understand what engagement means?
My WSIL and her OM have been "together" for 5 years. They have 2 OC. They have been "engaged" for 4 years. They are BOTH still legally married to OTHER PEOPLE. Oh, but the OMW was "crazy and jealous" and BBIL was, "Controlling and abusive." It is so typical. Oh, and get this, they have BOTH "cheated" on the other A LOT. And, if asked they state they have never been happier but then in another breath they complain about eachother. And the only kids that they like are their OC. She doesn't like his other 2 children(from 2 different mothers). He complains about her COM. They are BOTH disgusting wayturds.
What prompted this rant? Well, I saw a newsreel about how Kelsey Grammer got engaged(to what is OBVIOUSLY his OW) and announced it on David Letterman. He isn't even divorced from his wife. I stopped watching David Letterman when I found out about HIS As.
Wow, when I saw that Fireproof had the last post, I thought this thread had been locked. Then, I would have had a rant about no rant thread. I rant often; so, thanks for continuing to give me the opportunity to rant.
Yeah and Kelsey Grammers wife that he cheated on and was married to was the OW in his other marriage...
Heres my rant....OW that become the WS new spouse complaining about how they have been through thick and thin with their WS and cant believe that they are leaving them for another OW.....WAHHHHHH, call the WAHHHHmbulance!!!!!!
But he would never do it to you, would he?!!!!??? Well guess what HE DID!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stilly, I didn't know that. Well, serves him right that this current wife FOW is going to take him to the cleaners.
I saw an interview and she said, "What about the kids?" Wow, just WOW.
Oh and on the BBIL and WSIL front, they are WEIRD. BIL's GF called me and said, "BIL and SIL are out sledding with 'the kids.'" Yep. BIL, SIL, COM and 2 OC ALL out TOGETHER, in the same car, to go out sledding. WEIRD.
It is amazing that all this weirdness doesnt seem to phase anybody anymore, as it should.....sounds like WSIL is cake eating galore....Thank goodness for MB, I would prolly be doing things almost as stupid thinking it would keep me from losing WH....not knowing that I had already completely lost him.
WSIL has ALWAYS been like this and BBIL even played on the same baseball team as OM. He doesn't like him, but he always does things for the family. He fixed their leaking sink, their car, etc. He always says it is for his daughter but COME ON. It is really really weird. Sadly, it seems it is becoming more of the "norm" now though. I am SUPER glad that I found MB. If WH had left in February, he was going to come here and watch our children and "we" would go shopping as a family. He even told me we would see if we could start dating each other again. SHUDDER. Thanx once again MB and DrH. OOPS that wasn't really a RANT now was it?
Yeah and Kelsey Grammers wife that he cheated on and was married to was the OW in his other marriage...
Heres my rant....OW that become the WS new spouse complaining about how they have been through thick and thin with their WS and cant believe that they are leaving them for another OW.....WAHHHHHH, call the WAHHHHmbulance!!!!!!
But he would never do it to you, would he?!!!!??? Well guess what HE DID!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you sure, Stilly-Girl? [Hi, btw! Miss ya! ]
According to Wikipedia, Kelsey Grammer has been married 3 times - the first marriage, to Doreen Alderman, lasted from 1982-1990 - the second marriage, to Leigh-Anne Csuhany, in 1992, lasted one year, and then he met current BW, Camille Donatacci, in 1996, and married her in August of 1997...So I dunno???
Sounds like a bunch of people passing around thier spouses Scotty. Yeah, Marriage doesn't mean anything to them. Its just a piece of paper I bet they say.
Live like thiers no tommorrow, I want my share, if nobody catchs me I'll be OK, if they can get away with it why not me.....
I watch Real Housewives of Hollywood and Kelsey's current wife is on the show. To me she appeared really devastated, loss of weight, depression, worried about the children. She said she supported him for 13 years through a bunch of crap, including his addictions. She said she thought when she got married that she was going to be married for the rest of her life. She's scared.
Then on the previews for the season finale next week, she finds out there is another woman. (Remember these shows were pre-recorded.) Guess they waited for the show to catch up before they did the reveal about Kelsey.
I always liked him as an actor, now? I have lost a lot of respect for him.
I was really surprised to hear all this because all along I wondered about their marriage. Separate vacations, separate friends, etc. I kinda thought SHE might be a wayward. No clue it was Kelsey. Just goes to show you never know what's going on behind closed doors.
I read in a tabloid the she was the OW....but now that I look at it, he was only engaged to be married at the time he started seeing Camille...not married...
I don't doubt she is worried about the kiddos(I realize that I wrote something that might be misunderstood). I think I was just saying that was the part they were stressing. Also, apparently she met OW and she says she likes her.
It isn't better for the kids for you to be "friends" with WS and OP. It is sickening that this is becoming a new part of our culture.
I know, right? On the show they (she and Kelsey) pretended that everything was A-OK in front of their friends (except she kept getting her jabs in about marriage). She seems to be a very passive person so I can see her saying that she likes OW but when there's no one around I wonder if that's how she really feels.
The movie, "The Dilemma", has been advertised as a comedy about infidelity. On the radio show, Dr Harley said something along the lines of "this would be like making a comedy about child pornography". Normally, I like Ron Howard's movies, but why on earth would he make a comedy about infidelity?
Yea, I think I am going to skip that movie even though I normally like movies that Kevin James and Vince Vaughn are in.
"The Dilemma"???? Every time I see the trailer, I yell at the TV, "What Dilemma? YOU TELL YOU TELL. There is NO dilemma." Good thing I usually don't have any company over and it's winter so my windows are closed because someone may put me in the looney bin.
Yeah, I yelled at the screen when that ad came on too. It startled DH, who was playing Farmville And what's the the Natalie Portman and Ashton Kutcher movie???? This whole "let's share the most intimate thing God designed for married couples all over the place with no commitment" stuff makes me gag. Really? People REALLY think it's that simple....or that it should be???? If you're going to sleep with anything that moves, and then you marry someone who will sleep with anything that moves......well, ya get what ya get and ya don't fuss a bit.
Yea, I think I am going to skip that movie even though I normally like movies that Kevin James and Vince Vaughn are in.
"The Dilemma"???? Every time I see the trailer, I yell at the TV, "What Dilemma? YOU TELL YOU TELL. There is NO dilemma." Good thing I usually don't have any company over and it's winter so my windows are closed because someone may put me in the looney bin.
I have no place to "put" this rant, but here it goes, hope you forgive when it's just too ... normal or obvious.
This is about how ill advice can actually make people in dispair feel inferior and make them discouraged by "naturally smart" people (this came from a discussion when a person claimed that some things, like normal marriage, is not learned, but it has to come naturally). There is a heated discussion about exposure in one of our local forums and it is just unbelievable how BS's are intimidated with arguments like: - when you expose, people look at you as you are some kind of lunatic (people in dispair respond to that with solemn yes, I don't want any more stress in my life and I must be lunatic to even consider exposure!) - when you expose, you will never get your WS back, in fact - people will start thinking "no wonder s/he is having an affair, the WS is such a b* (you are right - it is actually my fault my WS is having an affair, I didn't give him enough sex; or you are right - telling everybody the truth will be too much and my WS will never want me back - how can I be such a heartless b*. There is definitely other ways to end the affair, I have just not googled enough) - when you tell your children, they will be traumatised for life and you are responsible (you are right - children must not know, I will die in shame and I don't want their life to be disturbed in any way, they love their father/mother, I'm not going to be the one who takes them apart) - WE don't expose, this is for some other culture, but not us, think about it (you are right, what was I thinking...). In short, your partner's affair will look bad on you and if you expose it will look double bad on you! In short, don't dare to act against anything your WS does right now, otherwise you will be a bad person (and who's gonna believe you anyway!) - and here runs a BS. I look at those posts in this local forum and think what on earth must be done to ENCOURAGE people. Unfortunately, we don't have any specifically marriagebuilders forums, but from time to time people armed with MB advice give their advice there. Us included. But the dominating part is still people who say that such programs are for stupid and "what happened to the world where everything came naturally". Anyway, this is just my rant. Makes me ... emm... discouraged.
Niitse, they used to say the same things here! You guys talk about exposure like its nothing, but when I was new here, people would get beat up for recommending the "lovebuster" of exposure. On my first post on Marriage Builders back in 2001 a wayward wife chastised me for wanting to put a keylogger on my H's computer.
Niitse, they used to say the same things here! You guys talk about exposure like its nothing, but when I was new here, people would get beat up for recommending the "lovebuster" of exposure. On my first post on Marriage Builders back in 2001 a wayward wife chastised me for wanting to put a keylogger on my H's computer.
To be fair Melody...when you joined it was still the 60's and the free love movement was still going strong.
See the news story below ...Melody Lane is the one seated in the middle with a laptop in her lap posting away on MarriageBuilders.com (Al Gore had JUST invented the internet). The photographer was lucky enough to steal her attention away from her posting duties long enough to snap this historic picture. [please note: Mrs. W was BORN that fateful Aquanet summer]
_______________________________
HAIRSPRAY HEAVEN
1969: The dawning of the "Age of Aguarius," when people were letting their hair down. Not these ladies, though. Many cans of Aqua Net and Alberto VO-5 were sacrificed for these hair creations at the 1969 Miss USA pageant. Melody Lane, the newly crowned Miss USA sits on her throne surrounded by her court, which includes one of our all time favorite first runners-up, Miss Vermont, Marital Bliss. No hurricane could have struck Miami Beach that these lovely ladies couldn't withstand. Not a hair out of place. Love it.
It's nice to see another side of some of our members. There IS a place for humor now and then among our ranks. With hair like that I guess you HAVE to have a sense of humor though.....
LMAO if the WW and I ever go to a MB weekend and run into you, I am going to say I am pepperband. If I told you who I really was I am afraid of what you would do.
First I won't expose, then I follow you around and make stupid jokes. You'd kill me:)
LMAO if the WW and I ever go to a MB weekend and run into you, I am going to say I am pepperband. If I told you who I really was I am afraid of what you would do.
I have MET Pepperband IRL so that wouldn't work very well!!
Quote
First I won't expose, then I follow you around and make stupid jokes. You'd kill me:)
But you DID expose.............so as far as I am concerned, you can tell bad jokes all day long!
First I won't expose, then I follow you around and make stupid jokes. You'd kill me:)
But you DID expose.............so as far as I am concerned, you can tell bad jokes all day long!
Right...Good jokes, bad jokes, it wouldn't make a difference, Reynolds, she wouldn't get any of them anyway! Mel does NOT get jokes!
Mrs. W
P.S. I see that Mr. W got off his leash while DD11 and I were out shopping! That man knows good and well that "The higher the hair, the closer to God" - At least that's what the sign in our bathroom says!
First I won't expose, then I follow you around and make stupid jokes. You'd kill me:)
But you DID expose.............so as far as I am concerned, you can tell bad jokes all day long!
Right...Good jokes, bad jokes, it wouldn't make a difference, Reynolds, she wouldn't get any of them anyway! Mel does NOT get jokes!
You didn't have to tell him that! I had that ole boy feeling mighty guilty!
Quote
P.S. I see that Mr. W got off his leash while DD11 and I were out shopping! That man knows good and well that "The higher the hair, the closer to God" - At least that's what the sign in our bathroom says!
Oh dang, that is the best line I have heard all year!!
P.S. I see that Mr. W got off his leash while DD11 and I were out shopping! That man knows good and well that "The higher the hair, the closer to God" - At least that's what the sign in our bathroom says!
Well people naturally have a capacity, or not, but I have seen "intellectually challanged" people who seem to have mastered so much. My favorite example, although from a fictious movie is Forest Gump. "I'm not a smart man , Jenny, but I know what love is"..
The human brain is the culmination of the nervous system, and balance of fear, frustration, and even pain makes us "smart". Don't believe we are naturally smart, doesn't every body know a to the head ussually gets our attention?
Oh wait , now I know who is naturally smart. Alien Pods.
Okay, I am just.....disgusted. I am a member of a CHRISTIAN forum, and I would really like to go......not very Christian on a few heads. There are people there posting in the marriage section about their spouses cheating, their spouses being addicted to porn....and they are getting thoughts like "Love them out of it." Like you just sing kum-ba-ya and throw rose petals and let God convicting them of their rutting around. Then there is the rebuke to a guy who confronted the OM....because he wasn't doing it out of concern for the man's soul. REALLYYYYYYY???????? And then I get rebuked for suggesting exposure and drawing a line in the sand with the WS. The whole "he who is without sin" phrase being tossed around.
I am tempted to just forget I ever found that site. But then what about people who come there hurting and hear all the hippie touchy feely crap? Man, I wish ML and a few other would join there and storm the gates. It just makes me sick that they are twisting Scripture to soft pedal confronting sin. If I vent the way I want over there....it will get removed. So I am stomping around here instead. If I didn't think it violated something, I'd but the web sites name right here.....but I don't want to get in trouble.
I guess that the people on that forum haven't read the 10 Commandments
I am tempted to just forget I ever found that site. But then what about people who come there hurting and hear all the hippie touchy feely crap?
Maybe God wants you to do just that? Maybe the fact that these posters are able to read your posts 'over there' is keeping them from seeking other sites and finding MB?
That's the thing that's always puzzled me about anything that stresses the word "Christian" - "Christian" by whose definition?
..That's the thing that's always puzzled me about anything that stresses the word "Christian" - "Christian" by whose definition?
Can't tell you how much that tickles me MB, but then I realize again how many times Gods words are used like a drug to numb and pacify people from his presence and the discipline we all need from Him.
I can't recall the quote from a famous Christian speaker that put it in more eloquent words than that, but I will allways remember the spirit of it and how it spoke to me as truth. That is what is wonderful about the word of God, no matter how much it gets twisted around by so-called Christians, the truth is revealed to those who really listen and are in need of Him.
We really don't listen untill we know it is He who is speaking to us do we? Not untill we are alone and all our master plans have failed.
.. If I vent the way I want over there....it will get removed. So I am stomping around here instead. If I didn't think it violated something, I'd but the web sites name right here.....but I don't want to get in trouble...
Reminds me of
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
If they really are looking desparatly for answers, they will find them if they really look. Sounds like they are looking for pacification, and embellishing it also.
What is most upsetting is they are misleading people using Gods name.
Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
I have a lot of different meanings in my mind that this speaks to, but to me it clearly says that those who seek to decieve others will not get away with anything, but yet swim in the bullcrap of thier own self-deception.
I almost always recommend Surviving an A and then tell them "there is also a web site." Yesterday I just threw caution to the wind and linked the address, telling this person basically that I couldn't in good conscience support the advice they were getting there, and that if they wanted real advice to come here.
I guess that was mean. But I could tell my blood pressure was getting high. I mean, I am not one of these legalistic rebuke them with a pole kind of people......but making someone feel as if they need to just quietly ENDURE abuse is......not anything like Christ's love. And enabling sin through this Woodstock approach......it just makes me so sad. Yeah, I actually used the word Woodstock.
I think between that stuff and the whole "public school is a demonic communist conspiracy, I was just about done yesterday
"We are stardust, we are golden, We are caught in the devils bargain, And we got to get ourselves back to the garden."
Please allow me to introduce myself I'm a man of wealth and taste I've been around for a long, long year Stole many a man's soul and faith
And I was 'round when Jesus Christ Had his moment of doubt and pain Made damn sure that Pilate Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name But what's puzzling you Is the nature of my game
I stuck around St. Petersburg When I saw it was a time for a change Killed the Czar and his ministers Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank Held a general's rank When the Blitzkrieg raged And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name, oh yeah Ah, what's puzzling you Is the nature of my game, oh yeah (woo woo, woo woo)
I watched with glee While your kings and queens Fought for ten decades For the gods they made (woo woo, woo woo)
I shouted out, "Who killed the Kennedys?" When after all It was you and me (who who, who who)
Let me please introduce myself I'm a man of wealth and taste And I laid traps for troubadours Who get killed before they reached Bombay (woo woo, who who)
Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah (who who) But what's puzzling you Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby (who who, who who)
Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah But what's confusing you Is just the nature of my game (woo woo, who who)
Just as every cop is a criminal And all the sinners saints As heads is tails Just call me Lucifer 'Cause I'm in need of some restraint (who who, who who)
So if you meet me Have some courtesy Have some sympathy, have some taste (woo woo) Use all your well-learned politesse Or I'll lay your soul to waste, mmm yeah (woo woo, woo woo)
Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name, mmm yeah (who who) But what's puzzling you Is the nature of my game, mmm mean it, get down (woo woo, woo woo)
Woo, who Oh yeah, get on down Oh yeah Oh yeah! (woo woo)
Tell me baby, what's my name Tell me honey, can ya guess my name Tell me baby, what's my name I tell you one time, you're to blame
Oh, who woo, woo Woo, who Woo, woo Woo, who, who Woo, who, who Oh, yeah
What's my name Tell me, baby, what's my name Tell me, sweetie, what's my name
Woo, who, who Woo, who, who Woo, who, who Woo, who, who Woo, who, who Woo, who, who Oh, yeah Woo woo Woo woo
To change things up a bit, please allow me to vent about frozen pipes....
Grrrrr....
Thanks to the freezing weather, we have no hot water in the kitchen, so I can't do dishes (I am not handwashing in icecold water.... my fingers went numb after just a few seconds) and I can't do laundry either since there's no water to the washing machine....
As much as I hate doing housework, I hate worse not being able to do housework... then it starts to pile up.... I have a feeling I'm going to be spending my weekend making up for this.... that is if the pipes ever unfreeze.....
Vib, I often handwash dishes in hot water I heat on the stove. We don't have a dishwasher, and our hot water heater often doesn't hold out long enough for me to finish.
Vib, I often handwash dishes in hot water I heat on the stove. We don't have a dishwasher, and our hot water heater often doesn't hold out long enough for me to finish.
Oooh there's an idea... I might try that - though DH, charmer that he is, just messaged me to tell me not to worry about the dishes, he'd handle them when he gets home from class.... I'll tell him about the hot water from the stove idea - save his poor hands.
Vib, I often handwash dishes in hot water I heat on the stove. We don't have a dishwasher, and our hot water heater often doesn't hold out long enough for me to finish.
Our hot water heater was broken for 3 weeks before we got it fixed. We had to heat up bath water on the stove for everyone everyday, as well as water to hand wash our dishes, since the dishwasher just doesn't work without hot water. It sucked, but we managed. Try using paper plates and cups and plastic utensils until the hot water comes back. I found that helped cut down on the number of dishes we had to wash.
our hot water heater often doesn't hold out long enough for me to finish.
I think I understand why ... A whole LOT of laundry,mountains, methinks.
Your guess is exactly right: the water would hold out long enough more often if markos took care of the dishes every day instead of allowing them to pile up. Then the job would not be so big.
Yes, they eat off my dishes all the time, and the littlest one keeps stealing her mommy's soda.
Maybe I need a rant about that. Why can't kids eat off their own plates, anyway? Gotta make Daddy share, apparently.
What's up with that anyway? I can make the exact same thing for me and my 2-year-old, I mean the EXACT SAME THING, and she won't touch hers. She just wants mine.
ML, that song used to give me nightmares. Then I saw that movie The Devil's Advocate......yeesh, I don't like them thangs.
You must GET that song. Most people don't get it. I sure didn't until I was well into my 30's when it dawned on me with horror one day.
When I got it in my mid 20s Mel, it made me want to be a procecuring attorney and put the hammer down on bullchit. I had signed up for sociology aas a major for colledge just so I could really know the enemy and planned on being an attorney by 35.
Then of course I met my late wife, with all the beautiful word of God she had, while she was one of the greatest of the inner circle of a great envangelist church, and she was "Backsliding". A term I have now aknowedged as the same as "being stubborn and seeking her own way", or bluntly, "feeling sorry for herself".
The title sure says it all doesn't it? "Sympathy for the Devil" and the line "After all it was you and me" really rings home huh?
Originally Posted by Tawandabelle
ML, that song used to give me nightmares. Then I saw that movie The Devil's Advocate......yeesh, I don't like them thangs.
At the end when Satan smiles and says, "Vanity, my favorite ______________,( did he say sin or weakness? I dont remember)". Yeah, humbling huh?
When will we stop going to that tree in the garden, or is that just how we are? Scuse me while I find my figleaf and blame the women he gave me.
Throw the sheets in there too (not at the same time as the dishes) and trample them, the way our grandmothers used to!
I remember heating up water on the stove to get a bath when I was a kid, and in Mass. in the winter, after cleaning the barn, every few days, well we we needed a bath.
But that doesn't compare to my fathers once a week baths. He worked so hard and to many hours. Its a tribute to how people could stay together longer in those days, "for the children", of course.
He was brought up on a farm, had to live across the street for part of his life because he could not be in the same room as his brother. I heard it was becuase his bro was sick as a child, but knowing my Dad, and his temperment, there might have been other reasons.
He would work from 6 AM and come home from his second job at 12:30 in the morning the next day, and then there was the weekend projects too. He would take a bath in 2 inchs of water once a week because he was taught not to waste hot water, at everyones disgust, (specially Mom) and insist and question us all if we were using more that two sheets of TP when we went to the bathroom. Brought home clothes from the dump and insisted I wear them to school, (Can you picture plaid floodpants in the 60s?), and tried to furnish the house with items from the dump also. He was the epitomy of "penny wise and pound foolish", as I came to realize later on. He valued money above everything including himself and his family, and nobody could reach him on this, no matter how they tried.
So the rant is about how my Dad suffered needlessly from fear and would not consider that he was a human being that could live a life more fully while we were young or recognize love when it was given to him. He did teach me how to work, but life is more than work, it also enjoying the journey as it unfolds, and living in the now.
Yes, they eat off my dishes all the time, and the littlest one keeps stealing her mommy's soda.
Maybe I need a rant about that. Why can't kids eat off their own plates, anyway? Gotta make Daddy share, apparently.
What's up with that anyway? I can make the exact same thing for me and my 2-year-old, I mean the EXACT SAME THING, and she won't touch hers. She just wants mine.
I think you guys are on to something...I think you've figured out a way to get kids to eat what's good for them: put the pizza and jo-jo's on their plate, and put the lean meat and veggies on the parents' plates!
When I got it in my mid 20s Mel, it made me want to be a procecuring attorney and put the hammer down on bullchit. I had signed up for sociology aas a major for colledge just so I could really know the enemy and planned on being an attorney by 35.
I must have been the last person in the world to GET that song! When it came out i was only 10 and even then, didn't bother with much history until I was in my 30's. THEN I got it!
When I got it in my mid 20s Mel, it made me want to be a procecuring attorney and put the hammer down on bullchit. I had signed up for sociology aas a major for colledge just so I could really know the enemy and planned on being an attorney by 35.
I must have been the last person in the world to GET that song! When it came out i was only 10 and even then, didn't bother with much history until I was in my 30's. THEN I got it!
Was it on the "Exile on main street" album? I don't know, never was a rabid stones fan anyway. Some really bad experiences when I was a child.
But credit where credit is due, it is a good song.
I almost always recommend Surviving an A and then tell them "there is also a web site." Yesterday I just threw caution to the wind and linked the address, telling this person basically that I couldn't in good conscience support the advice they were getting there, and that if they wanted real advice to come here.
Just saw your post from yesterday elsewhere and remembered that you just posted this here a few days ago about MB.
Here's a parital rant and a partial removal of an old trigger.
Last night the heavy, wet snow collapsed our garage on top of the car I normally drive. It looks pretty bad. The insurance company will come out tomorrow, but it appears as though the car is totalled.
On the plus side, it is the car my H had when he was in the A. OW once commented how much she liked driving it, especially with the top down. I really liked this car and had actually stopped any triggers associated with the car. So, it looks like one of the last things associated with the A might be hitting the junkyard.
Hey, PM, I am not sure which post you're talking about. I'll have to look through my posts.
If it's the one you quoted, what I meant was that I was directing people to MB from a particular Christian forum because there was horrible advice being given on the Christian forum (which is a sad testament).
Sometimes when I type my brain goes faster than my fingers (or the other way around).
During all of my tribulations I have managed to have a close R with my SIL who lives overseas. We talk almost weekly and she is good support for me and my DDs. We hardly mention XH.
SIL maintains communication with XH because "he is all that she has as far as family" which I try and respect. At the beginning XH blew up at her and hung up on her and since then she walks on eggs because she does not want him to "be mad". She has a disease that stress affects it and I tell her that I do not expect her to pick sides because he is her brother (even thought I think she should give him a swift kick in the butt).
We are on FB together. Well lo and behold I get an email from her saying "Hi Hope hope things are great for you. My brother and PP are on FB now and he sent me all of his wedding photos to me and fiance. Now I have 2 SIL on FB. Tell the girls I send my love...SIL
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.
So I pull up FB and there is pic of PP and her 2 spawned Ds listed as a friend on SIL page. (Should I add that my pic is with MY 2 DD also)
I was pretty upset because I do not want my DDs to see pics of PP (even as a friend) on SIL FB because it would upset them and how she was so insensitive to say having 2 SIL on FB.
I rip off email to SIL...
SIL, I am doing ok. I don't really want to know about that plastic slag on FB and their wedding. They took DD17's money to pay for that Vegas wedding and now he has wrecked my credit with his bankruptcy. We had had enough of XH's and the pain he has caused our family. He got what he deserves...being with her. We love you always and will always be SIL and it is good you are there for my girls. I don't want to hear about him and his wedding. Take care.
Told both DD's to be warned about this because they both post pictures to SIL and DD17 does not want XH to see her even in a pic.
DD promptly removed all tagged photos from SIL and locked her FB account.
Only amusing part is that the FB is under PP's name and she goes by her maiden name and his last name but she never changed anything legally.
Beyond that... Facebook is dumb in itself! My WW is a FB-whore, because it benefits her career (musician in a successful band). Social networking right? Well, after much hullabaloo she finally went NC with OM and deleted him from FB, among other things. Her profile is not locked, because easy accessibility is critical for garnering fans.
Even after a NC letter and deleting him, we awoke yesterday morning to see that POSOM had posted a comment on one of her posts, and of course it was of the "snide underhanded remark but subtle enough no one else will know" variety.
My wayward is currently pretty upset at him and the whole situation, so it ticked her off ALMOST as much as it ticked me off. The nerve! We're going to have to find more drastic measures, because POSOM doesn't want to lose this battle.
I removed my SIL from my wall on FB. A couple of weeks ago, she posted a TONNE of pics from the past and tagged me in ones with my WH. She apologized only AFTER she tagged them. I removed the tags and asked her to not tag me in any future pics with my WH in them.
Stuck waiting, she can remove her wall so no one can post ANYTHING to her. She COULD make her profile more secure. Is there a reason she isn't?
Stuck waiting, she can remove her wall so no one can post ANYTHING to her. She COULD make her profile more secure. Is there a reason she isn't?
Having an easily accessible profile is an important part of building her career. Fans post things, she posts back, new fans search her out to get a look at the music, photos, videos etc.
There are options, yes. But for a musician, the usual "get a new job" mantra won't work. She considered closing her FB altogether, but it really is an important part of her career at this point. There's probably a way to block him specifically from posting anything on her site, but even then I think there are risks some of what his activity (with mutual friends, for example) could leak in...
I don't need to hijack the post, though. Bottom line is "ARGH Facebook causes problems!"
Facebook does NOT cause problems. The way someone uses FB is what causes the problems.
There ARE things your WW can do. She could remove her FB and have someone else run one for her. She would stay off of it and have a intermediary type thing where someone else would check her FB page and could respond to the "fan" messages. This way, there would be no thrill when OM contacts her. See, there ARE ways around things, think about them, figure this out because ANY contact is bad bad bad for your recovery and your recovery is DOOMED.
She can easily block OM's email address and he would not be able to even see her posts or any pics, even if she posts on someone else's FB or makes a comment. That's if she really wants to do that.
Facebook does NOT cause problems. The way someone uses FB is what causes the problems.
There ARE things your WW can do. She could remove her FB and have someone else run one for her. She would stay off of it and have a intermediary type thing where someone else would check her FB page and could respond to the "fan" messages. This way, there would be no thrill when OM contacts her. See, there ARE ways around things, think about them, figure this out because ANY contact is bad bad bad for your recovery and your recovery is DOOMED.
Perfect answer. Stuck, your WW doesn't have to go near FB to maintain her 'fan page.'
How I met your mother. I LOVE this show. Tonight's episode, Ted admits that he likes Zoey and Zoey is married. A few weeks back, when I saw this developing, I was PIZZED. I would have stopped watching the show if it was an A. Now, it seems that Zoey has already left her H and she is getting a D. So, Ted kisses her. Now, I dunno what I want to do. ARGH. Technically, it IS an A. I am going to see where this goes and if it IS going to be that it is an A, I will six the show.
I guess it is what my "efficient" friends did with the saying, "86 something." "To 86 something means "to throw out." (Supposedly, the origin was restaurant code for being out of an item.)"
I guess it is what my "efficient" friends did with the saying, "86 something." "To 86 something means "to throw out." (Supposedly, the origin was restaurant code for being out of an item.)"
Well, my goodness, how do Canadians expect anyone else to work THAT out?
I guess it is what my "efficient" friends did with the saying, "86 something." "To 86 something means "to throw out." (Supposedly, the origin was restaurant code for being out of an item.)"
Well, my goodness, how do Canadians expect anyone else to work THAT out?
It's not really a Canadian thing. I work with people in their late teens and 20s. I actually have NO CLUE what I am saying some times.
Living in Niagara Falls, we used to say, "Going over the river," when we were talking about going to the States. I said that the other week and a girl said, "How OLD are you? We say, 'Over the ditch' now." She is only 6 years younger than me. Guess I am an old lady now.
I apologize to people who can't understand me, I am often the one who has to translate English into English for my friends.
Stuck waiting, she can remove her wall so no one can post ANYTHING to her. She COULD make her profile more secure. Is there a reason she isn't?
Having an easily accessible profile is an important part of building her career. Fans post things, she posts back, new fans search her out to get a look at the music, photos, videos etc.
There are options, yes. But for a musician, the usual "get a new job" mantra won't work.
Only because they are unwilling to actually get a new job and do something else.
Aw, shoot, it's a rant thread, so I don't know why I edited my post three times. Here's the original:
Only because they are unwilling to actually get a new job.
The question is: is being a musician more important to them than their marriage?
I love what I do, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat if my wife wanted me to. She is far more important to me.
I don't know why it became culturally acceptable to rank music as a special class of career that people are "born into," but our culture accepts a lot of strange ideas.
The odds of success as a musician are very, very low. In my opinion all of this career building with Facebook and such is essentially like playing the lottery. If a musician doesn't have some kind of a contract by a certain point in their lives, they need to face reality and give it up and do something else. And if their career is hurting their marriage, they need to do that sooner rather than later.
Oh, no, I disagreed with some sacred cow ideas that musicians think about themselves.
Yes..Pep. I haven't watched the bachelor is years but this current installment with Brad Womack is just so over the top nauseating you just can't not watch it. Brad is convinced of the seriousness of his decision, IMO, not because picking a wife is so hard...but rather, he seems to feel that one of these lucky ladies is about to win the lottery....HIM, so picking the right million dollar winner is a burden that weighs heavily on him. The "pheromone of artistry" even has legs even in the psuedo-celebrity business.
I guess it is what my "efficient" friends did with the saying, "86 something." "To 86 something means "to throw out." (Supposedly, the origin was restaurant code for being out of an item.)"
Well, my goodness, how do Canadians expect anyone else to work THAT out?
It's not really a Canadian thing. I work with people in their late teens and 20s. I actually have NO CLUE what I am saying some times.
Living in Niagara Falls, we used to say, "Going over the river," when we were talking about going to the States. I said that the other week and a girl said, "How OLD are you? We say, 'Over the ditch' now." She is only 6 years younger than me. Guess I am an old lady now.
I apologize to people who can't understand me, I am often the one who has to translate English into English for my friends.
It's a New York thing...
Quote
Chumley's, a famous and OLD New York speakeasy, is located at 86 Bedford St. During Prohibition, an enterance through an interior adjoing courtyard was used, as it provided privacy and discretion for customers.
As was (and is) a New York tradition, the cops were on the payroll of the bar and would give a ring to the bar that they were coming for a raid. The bartender would then give the command "86 everybody!", which meant that everyone should hightail it out the 86 Bedford enterance because the cops were coming in through the courtyard door.
86; to get rid of, throw out.
As far as Canadians translating English into English... I had one of those teachers in high school, and I won't do that again (uh - gay - n). I mean, what's that all aboot?
I don't know why it became culturally acceptable to rank music as a special class of career that people are "born into," but our culture accepts a lot of strange ideas.
The odds of success as a musician are very, very low. In my opinion all of this career building with Facebook and such is essentially like playing the lottery. If a musician doesn't have some kind of a contract by a certain point in their lives, they need to face reality and give it up and do something else. And if their career is hurting their marriage, they need to do that sooner rather than later.
I agree that using FB to build a music career is like playing the lottery, and it's ridiculous that "musicians" are in a special class of job status.
However, it's true my FWW is "born to be a musician" much more than I was "born to be an IT Support dude" if you know what I mean. It's relatively easier for me to drop my job and get a new one in my chosen field, or a new one, if I wanted to... for a musician, it's much harder to find a new job in their current field. Because their "job" is nebulous.
If I asked my wife to choose between her marriage and music--and I'm sure many other musicians would do the same--she would take the music. If she didn't, she would resent me forever for forcing her to choose. That is not a recipe for a happy marriage. If she asked me to choose between her and IT, obviously it's an easy choice for me. But if she asked me to choose between her and my left leg, that'd be tougher.
This would be different if she really was playing the lottery with FB, but she has enough of a fan base and makes enough money through shows, iTunes and CDs, that she's not just playing lottery anymore. It's her career, and she's successful.
I wonder what the Harleys would say about dealing with highly successful WSes.
Well, FWW finally deleted her page. A pair of coworkers whom I can't wait to never see again were whining that she had deleted them.
Waaaaaaaaa!
She deleted her page for now.
The "couple" page is more effort than I care to put out right now, so I think later down the road we will put up our own pages again, with full privacy lockdown and simple rules; family and close friends only. Keep work and home work and home.
I recommend a FB fan page. Nobody can really contact her, and somebody else can man it.
And I am speaking as someone who is so artsy and right brain that I lean when I walk. I had a couple of doors opened to me years ago, but I made the choice to "choose the better part." I have wondered before what I might be doing right now....but I know I chose what would truly last.
It's relatively easier for me to drop my job and get a new one in my chosen field, or a new one, if I wanted to... for a musician, it's much harder to find a new job in their current field.
I think the problem is that the constraint of "in the current field" is an irrational constraint.
Quote
If I asked my wife to choose between her marriage and music--and I'm sure many other musicians would do the same--she would take the music. If she didn't, she would resent me forever for forcing her to choose. That is not a recipe for a happy marriage. If she asked me to choose between her and IT, obviously it's an easy choice for me. But if she asked me to choose between her and my left leg, that'd be tougher.
What you are describing is not a recipe for a happy marriage. It's a deification and idolatry of music.
I sing, play guitar, and do all kinds of stuff with music. It doesn't have to be my career.
I wonder what the Harleys would say about dealing with highly successful WSes.
The Harleys believe in a very consistent application of the Policy of Joint Agreement. More than once I've heard Dr. Harley talk about politicians or high profile performers needing to build a life that accommodates the desires of their spouse, including giving up the career if necessary.
What you are describing is not a recipe for a happy marriage. It's a deification and idolatry of music.
I sing, play guitar, and do all kinds of stuff with music. It doesn't have to be my career.
But if someone offered you a way to make a great living doing those things, you'd want to take that opportunity, right? Especially if it had been your lifelong dream?
This is a much broader topic than it started as. Obviously Facebook doesn't have to be a part of any career, music or not! There are other options.
But, speaking from my own place as a musician by hobby, I do know I'd be pretty resentful if I had an opportunity to make my living through music, but was forced to give it up for my wife. It'd be...tough. We're all human, with human needs and desires and dreams. I won't ever make my wife give up music, though I'll find ways to put up boundaries that protect our M.
Though OM is a fellow musician, he's not a bandmember that tours with them or ever has to see/work with her. That situation would be unnegotiable.
What you are describing is not a recipe for a happy marriage. It's a deification and idolatry of music.
I sing, play guitar, and do all kinds of stuff with music. It doesn't have to be my career.
But if someone offered you a way to make a great living doing those things, you'd want to take that opportunity, right? Especially if it had been your lifelong dream?
Not if it came at the expense of my wife. Seriously.
Have you read about Type A and Type B resentment? It's a Marriage Builders concept, but not in the "Basic Concepts."
But, speaking from my own place as a musician by hobby, I do know I'd be pretty resentful if I had an opportunity to make my living through music, but was forced to give it up for my wife.
I was quite talented on my original chosen instrument and was encouraged to pursue a career in music. One reason I did not was because I wanted to be able to reliably support a family some day. So I did give up a possible music career for my wife. I don't resent it at all.
You have 168 hours every week (24x7) to schedule for something. I highly recommend 8 hours of sleep a night, so that leaves 112 waking hours. Getting ready for the day, and going to bed at night may require, say, 12 hours, and work plus commute may take another 50 hours. That leaves 50 more hours to spend doing what you value most, and 15 of those hours should be dedicated to maintaing a passionate and fulfilling marriage.
A person could have a non-music-related career and a good marriage and still have 35 hours left over for music. Not having a music related career is not a death sentence for anybody. It's not the amputation of a limb.
If I asked my wife to choose between her marriage and music--and I'm sure many other musicians would do the same--she would take the music. If she didn't, she would resent me forever for forcing her to choose. That is not a recipe for a happy marriage. If she asked me to choose between her and IT, obviously it's an easy choice for me. But if she asked me to choose between her and my left leg, that'd be tougher.
If she would choose her career over her marriage, then you are never going to have a great marriage. The higher the priority is placed on the marriage, the better it is. If your marriage is forced to take a back seat to her career, you will never have much of a marriage. If you were my 27 year old son, I would tell you to get a divorce because you won't ever be happy with someone who places you so low on her priority list.
If her career is a threat to your marriage or makes you unhappy then she should be willing to do what it takes to change that. And you can't "force" her to leave her career in a free country, so that is not even a consideration.
Have you read about Type A and Type B resentment? It's a Marriage Builders concept, but not in the "Basic Concepts."
I have not, but would love to. Is there a link somewhere? I haven't been able to find it.
Originally Posted by markos
So I did give up a possible music career for my wife. I don't resent it at all.
I do understand this. FWW is already quite successful and makes more than she did when she worked a full-time desk job several years ago. There'd be more resentment than if it were just a possible career...it's in full swing already, which makes it harder to give up.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
If she would choose her career over her marriage, then you are never going to have a great marriage. The higher the priority is placed on the marriage, the better it is. If your marriage is forced to take a back seat to her career, you will never have much of a marriage. If you were my 27 year old son, I would tell you to get a divorce because you won't ever be happy with someone who places you so low on her priority list.
If her career is a threat to your marriage or makes you unhappy then she should be willing to do what it takes to change that. And you can't "force" her to leave her career in a free country, so that is not even a consideration.
Luckily, at this point I'm not GOING to ask her one way or the other--and her career is not a threat to our marriage. Right now. I thought it was for a while, but after the band cut OM out of the picture (thanks, exposure!) it's safer.
I guess I should change this a bit, because I really do agree with you guys. Marriage obviously DOES need to be the top priority. But if I asked my FWW to give up her music career for our marriage in the state it is currently in, she'd say no... because, hell, our M was in poor shape before the A and is in poor shape now, and why would she want to give up her dream for an crippled marriage? Hopefully I can say her answer would be different 6 months from now, after we've really started rebuilding our M and have re-learned how to be happy and have a healthy, loving M.
Stuck Waiting, what YOU need to understand is that there will NEVER be a good marriage if the marriage ISN'T number one on BOTH of your lists. It isn't about the fact that your wife would need to give up anything, she should be putting HER marriage FIRST.
So, you also let her keep her band even though that's where she met OM? What EPs DID your WW put in place?
So, you also let her keep her band even though that's where she met OM? What EPs DID your WW put in place?
Yes I "let" her, in that I didn't make a "the band or me!" demand immediately after the A. This would have been stupid because 1) we would not be able to afford our mortgage if she quit the band, and 2) she would've chosen the band and I would have lost my marriage.
In plan A I could focus on meeting her ENs until the marriage DID take top priority again. It's not at that point yet.
EPs: Blocked OM's phone number, deleted from FB, informed the band they could never work with him again. I'm working on building up a LB$, though I know other EPs need to happen, every relationship conversation at this point is withdrawing LB$ so I need to be careful.
He was one of the band's collaborators, so yes, she met POSOM through the band. They will not be working together and there is no risk of an accidental run-in.
Yes I "let" her, in that I didn't make a "the band or me!" demand immediately after the A. This would have been stupid because 1) we would not be able to afford our mortgage if she quit the band, and 2) she would've chosen the band and I would have lost my marriage.
Have you ever considered that if everything comes before you that you have nothing to lose? Just keeping a marriage at all costs is not a definition of success. You are young and have very little invested in this person. I would strongly suggest you consider cutting your losses before you have children with this woman.
Have you read about Type A and Type B resentment? It's a Marriage Builders concept, but not in the "Basic Concepts."
I have not, but would love to. Is there a link somewhere? I haven't been able to find it.
Originally Posted by markos
So I did give up a possible music career for my wife. I don't resent it at all.
I do understand this. FWW is already quite successful and makes more than she did when she worked a full-time desk job several years ago. There'd be more resentment than if it were just a possible career...it's in full swing already, which makes it harder to give up.
I agree that makes a difference to some of the concerns which I have mentioned.
However, as far as your marriage ... if it's a problem for your marriage, then none of this makes any difference.
And starting from a foundation that this music career means as much to her as a limb and means more than her to you ... that's an issue for your marriage.
So, you also let her keep her band even though that's where she met OM? What EPs DID your WW put in place?
EPs: Blocked OM's phone number, deleted from FB, informed the band they could never work with him again.
What EPs were put in place to prevent the beginning of another affair with a new person?
Quote
In plan A I could focus on meeting her ENs until the marriage DID take top priority again. It's not at that point yet.
...
I'm working on building up a LB$, though I know other EPs need to happen, every relationship conversation at this point is withdrawing LB$ so I need to be careful.
I am very confused. Has your wife committed to following a plan of recovery for your marriage, or not?
What EPs were put in place to prevent the beginning of another affair with a new person?
...none yet. Which is why I'm somewhere between Plan A and recovery. Her going NC with OM was an accomplishment, but chafes against "being controlled" so I'm trying to build up LB$ so we can actually have those kinds of conversations.
Quote
I am very confused. Has your wife committed to following a plan of recovery for your marriage, or not?
Not really, no. We've talked about transparency and EPs but have not created a plan we both agree with that meet all Dr. Harley's criteria.
Do I want to? Yes. But I'm hoping I can broach that subject further soon.
And yes, I've considered divorce. I have enough transparency to know she's still NC, and I hope she'll be open to full MB-style M soon enough. She is still foggy.
What EPs were put in place to prevent the beginning of another affair with a new person?
...none yet. Which is why I'm somewhere between Plan A and recovery. Her going NC with OM was an accomplishment, but chafes against "being controlled" so I'm trying to build up LB$ so we can actually have those kinds of conversations.
What is your time limit on Plan A? And what is your goal? Does your wife know what your requirements for a recovered marriage are?
I'm afraid you are going to tear yourself up like this, my friend, if you stay in some gradual vague place between Plan A and recovery.
Quote
Quote
I am very confused. Has your wife committed to following a plan of recovery for your marriage, or not?
Not really, no. We've talked about transparency and EPs but have not created a plan we both agree with that meet all Dr. Harley's criteria.
Do I want to? Yes. But I'm hoping I can broach that subject further soon.
This gradualism is gonna kill you (emotionally). Once recovery starts results certainly take time to achieve. But if you take forever to start recovery, you're going to still be here ten years from now in an unrecovered marriage, miserable. Far more miserable than you are now.
rant.....I feel like crying and once again don't really have a place to go......No, I don't expect anybody to do anything about it. I was just so excited about the chance to do something....meaningful. Having God maybe use some of my life experiences to help someone else. But it always gets twisted and lost in the same old crap.
TB, I'm so sorry you're hurting. I understand why as I've been keeping up. What you're experiencing is exactly why I don't go there anymore. The difference between here and there, is that if someone is blatantly in-your-face wayward, its-not-my-fault-no-matter-what-you-say, or just plain hateful, they are called out here. But most of the time it's sincerely done out of caring (unless it's a troll, lol).
There's casting your pearls before the swine and there's sowing on fertile ground. (I just mixed up two metaphors badly, sorry).
Anyway, you have a good heart and I hate to see you wasting the wealth of experience and knowledge that you have or defending someone who has bragged about how they like to "stir things up".
Others are just cold and callous and it comes through in their writings. There are also outright lies being told and jealousy abounds.
You are in my prayers. I think you have a TON to offer.
AWWWWWW...how can I whine if people are nice????? Now I can't keep being hormonal. And I am definitely hormonal, which is my own fault. I prayed that no unwelcome aunts would ruin my romantic weekend in a couple weeks.
Ha! I bet all the men are sorry they read THAT.
Actually, DH noticed I was stressed and we talked and he let me rant and then he ranted about some school stuff and we ranted together and then I was relieved.
For those who don't know all about our story....this mutual supportive ranting and depending on each other is big good stuff.
So now everyone can rant about how mercurial I have been all day and how sickening I am right now.
...I prayed that no unwelcome aunts would ruin my romantic weekend in a couple weeks.
Ha! I bet all the men are sorry they read THAT. ...
Thanks, I guess I'm gonna go dig my eyes out with a plastic spoon now...
DITTO PM's LMAO
On a similar note, and maybe not right for the rant thread since it is funny, my DS10 is starting to take sex-ed in school. He came home from his first day of learning and said, "Mommy, what did it feel like when you started puberty?" I almost choked on my dinner. And guess what he was asking about? Yep, the same thing TBelle was talking about. Out of the mouths of babes.
Yeah....one of the many reasons MEN have it easy.....yeah, THEY don't have mean old aunts and little PEOPLE coming out of their body!
Sorry....I couldn't resist. I wouldn't ever want to be a man....all that burping and body hair and stuff.....plus men can't wear tiaras or poof their hair or get rhinestones put on their fingernails (no I have never done that) or carry around annoying little dogs in their purses. Well ,they could.....but I think Queer Eye was cancelled a couple of years ago!
RuPaul is actually a very nice bald man. I have met him. When he is in his performance costume, he is gorgeous. And well over 6'4" tall. Intimidating, when "she" is also wearing a tall wig. Amazon.
Old time MBer who say it is OK to TRASH the betrayed spouse on this forum. Essentially telling the MB-newbie wayward spouse he is the victim in the marriage. Thereby GREEN LIGHTING the adultery.
Shame on YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE
There is a way to express empathy for a long & difficult marriage without CALLING THE BETRAYED SPOUSE NAMES
My vent for today is about near 30 year old grown children that refuse to do what this future grandma wants and get married and have my grandbabies already!
My vent for today is about near 30 year old grown children that refuse to do what this future grandma wants and get married and have my grandbabies already!
I second this vent. My boy is 28, and no grandchildren..
Check out Charlie Sheen's waywardesque rant. He sounds incredibly like quite a few waywards that have passed through MB over the years including many that FINALLY left with their lizards in a tizzie.
These are classics:
Originally Posted by sheen
�I�m tired of pretending like I�m not special,� Sheen continued. �I�m tired of pretending like I�m not bitching, a total fricking rock star from Mars, and people can�t figure me out; they can�t process me. I don�t expect them to. You can�t process me with a normal brain.�
Originally Posted by sheen
He also again took aim at Alcoholics Anonymous, calling it a failed system developed by a �broken-down fool that was a plagiarist.� He claimed he has conquered his own drug and alcohol problems by the sheer force of his will: �I closed my eyes and made it so.�
After checking himself out of rehab, Sheen set up his own home rehab facility called �Sober Valley Lodge,� from which the principles of A.A. had been banned. �I will not believe that if I do something then I have to follow a certain path, because it was written nice,� he said. �It was written for normal people, people that aren�t special. People that don�t have tiger blood, you know, Adonis DNA.�
And Charlie has two girlfriends living with him, referred to as "The Goddesses". And when the interviewer was at Charlie's house, so were Charlie's twin children. Gag.
Charlie has also, reportedly, purchased 3 houses in the same neighbourhood. One for each of his exes, with his children and one for him and his "harem." Ummmm, fantasy of D anyone?
Now, I saw on the news, that he is asking for a raise to go back to "his" show, for all of the trouble CBS has put HIM through. Entitled anyone? I hope they do us ALL a favour and don't let that show start up again. He needs some REAL consequences. It can't ALWAYS be about money.
He just needs to hit rock bottom before he kills himself.
On Charlie Sheen: As the child of a father who had Bipolar Disorder and chose not to medicate this is like watching his life unfold again. Even harder to watch than what Bliss is talking about. Charlie is suffering from severe grandiose delusions. It's very obvious to me. It makes my stomach churn with anxiety. Watching his stuff on the news has triggered my mom greatly -- she's been having nightmares and is even experiencing fresh anger towards my father who has been dead since June of 2007.
I do not understand why the man won't just get diagnosed and get on meds. Granted, as we all know, even with meds bipolar people aren't perfect but at least he'd be manageable.
Quote
including many that FINALLY left with their lizards in a tizzie.
Maybe someone should run over his lizard, pull out the scales one by one, and then do a happy dance
Check out Charlie Sheen's waywardesque rant. He sounds incredibly like quite a few waywards that have passed through MB over the years including many that FINALLY left with their lizards in a tizzie.
I don't usually watch shows like Access Hollywood. I happened to be watching it today though and they had a man on, from NBC, who interviewed Charlie. They were talking about it and they believe, in their infinite wisdom, that he is just speaking truthfully and without a filter. REALLY? And that DOESN'T seem OFF to these people? They actually said that they are more enamored with him and that they find this all "entertaining." I think that is just SICK. Entertaining? A man is going bonkers and falling down a rabbit hole that he may never climb out of and all they can do is WATCH and be entertained. ARGH.
I actually cried the first time I saw Charlie's rant. Behind all that crap he is spewing I bet there is a part of him that is terrified. I feel the same way about those reality shows where they highlight and follow around people with all these issues and hoardings and such. That is not supposed to be entertainment. Although I will say that I am still just....aghast over the poor woman who eats her couch cushion stuffing.......
I feel the same way about those reality shows where they highlight and follow around people with all these issues and hoardings and such.
At least there is no posturing with the people on Hoarders. Hollywood actors are just as disgusting, but they cover up their true nature slightly better.
He reminds me of a guy we used to have working for us. Our employee was warned once for showing up for work on Monday morning after a weekend binge...reeking of booze, although he had sobered up. He was sent home to shower, change, and brush his teeth.
A few weeks later, he showed up for work on a Tuesday morning in the same condition, so we suspended him for a week.
On Friday night, he hit the booze again and called my hubby to talk about his job. He actually said, "Well, I'll come back to work on Monday for $5 more per hour." Hubby almost fell out of his chair laughing!
Hubby told him, "Nope, if you want a job, you'll show up for work on time, clean, with clean clothes, and not smelling like a brewery. Show up again like you did this week, and you're fired."
Charlie Sheen is not all that! I never have thought so!
Oh yes...call me a woman seriously jealous of Janeane Crapolo!
And here's the link to Charlie Sheen's LATEST rant..so so so sad.
What to notice and what is important, is my xh suffers also from bipolar disorder (just was dx last year) and he sounded SO MUCH like Charlie Sheen with the grandiose language, the "I am a superhuman..so EPIC" type of verbage that it was just oral garbage that I heard for the last 7 years. His train wreck was over a few years, but Charlie's is instant.
Those I do know who are medicated with bipolar (hugs to them) do well as long as they keep up with everything and aren't afraid to get the help. I have a friend who is doing amazing btw. But my xh? Fuel the wayward side with that, and this is what you get. Plus his drug use. What is also important to notice in this clip is this...there is somebody encouraging this behavior. A skank ho. Yep. She is the one laughing at his inane remarks, who is egging him on, and is constantly trying to get his attention by him coffee and sitting nearby, literally hanging on every word.
If you ever WANT to really know what an exaggerated yet real version of an ow is, that is it. Just like that woman who is reinforcing his horrible behavior.
and another PUKEFEST affairage from tinseltown um no...make that HO YORK! Kelsey Grammar married his 23 year old, almost same age as his daughter who is also getting married, mistress.
In perfect grandiose wayward style, he serenaded his "bride" no make that WISTRESS and she was awed by his vocalizations on their affairage day...
The song? And I am NOT KIDDING...
He sang to the ho bag a little classic tune..
"WHAT KIND OF FOOL AM I"?
When you stop crying from seeing the result of long term wayward-behavior (I seriously almost cried today) you might then change and begin laughing hilariously at the utter fool Kelsey Grammar has made of himself.
Color me jealous of high brows like Susan Sarandon and Janeane Crapafalo.
Is that a real person? What did she and Susan Sarandon do?
I'm a bit out of the loop.
They are brainless fools who try to use their position to further the politics of loony tunes. Unfortunately, they are not bright enough to pull it off effectively.
just....aghast over the poor woman who eats her couch cushion stuffing.......
OMGosh, ME TOO!!! I have not shut up about that! I thought it was just me!
I'm pretty friendly, but I gotta say that I would not welcome that woman in our house -- We just got brand new sofas -- I mean, I'm not all that thrilled when any of us sit on them, much less...well...THAT...
People who live in Shrek's Swamp and are married to people who name themselves after the Beatles are the exception.
Poor Charlie. Hmmmmmm.....what things are fun to do during mania???
Decide to become a stand=up comedian Die your hair red Wear clothing from the junior dept Pick up vagrant people and take them to eat and buy groceries INSTEAD of going to your college classes because God has called you to Talk incessantly about things you know nothing about all the while under the impression you are the most sparkling personality at the party Sing really loudly....everywhere Jog 9 miles a day and sleep 2 hours a night Order various needless items from a web site called covenant spice (don't ask) Open a credit card at Belk...and Dillards, J C Penney, Old Navy, Kohl's Victoria's Secret......Even if you only charge 100 dollars worth, you can run up a good debt if you open a dozen cards Wonder what people are saying about you Decide you know what people are saying about you Respond to what you think you know people are saying about you
Thank God for meds. Take them, people!
But at least I have never eaten my couch! I wonder how many carbs it has......
And Pep, I have no doubt that your H is a person of good character and decency or you wouldn't be married to him. But that doesn't erase the fact that the culture in Hollywood is the lowest common denominator in our population. Depravity and mediocrity is celebrated and anything goes.
I allways knew my poor late wife suffered some kind of envy for the hollywood crowd, it was pretty obvious with her obsession with looks and reputation around people she was insecure in a lot of ways.
The most obvious thogh was when she would talk about actors and call them by thier last name, the sorta familiar thing ya do when you know them personally, like," Did you see how Streep played that part?", or "I hope Cruise is saved, I am worried about him." I guess I was just worried about other stuff not as important.
I bring this up because so many waywards are looking for the glamourous life, and very few out there in Hollywood have earned my respect as real people. Will Smith and Jada Pinket Smith were on a show once and they said that,"Divorce is not an option". I can respect that.
Wonder what people are saying about you Decide you know what people are saying about you Respond to what you think you know people are saying about you
And Pep, I have no doubt that your H is a person of good character and decency or you wouldn't be married to him. But that doesn't erase the fact that the culture in Hollywood is the lowest common denominator in our population. Depravity and mediocrity is celebrated and anything goes.
The vast majority of people who work in the TV and film industry are not losers. They are hard working family people.
Those Hollywood people include the two guys who wrote and produced and stared in your H's favorite TV comedy show (now enjoying re-run heaven). The nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Funny. Self effacing. And, as hard as it is to imagine, given their TV wardrobe choices , very family devoted.
What you are talking about, I suspect, are the very visible & vocal minority who are in the public eye for misbehaving. And really, they are the tinniest minority.
To miscast an entire group this way ... "Hollywood people = losers" ... lacks accuracy as well as imagination.
Both of my H's AA sponsors are Hollywood people. Both exceptionally talented and both good men. Solid men with good moral standards. One of his sponsors did 2 tours of duty as a Marine in Viet Nam before he became a character actor. You see him every day in a variety of commercials & other shows. He is a stand up guy who visits men in prison for no other reason than to help them.
My good friend's husband, and my H's good friend, is a hollywood person too. He's a Julliard educated musician who has been composing music you've enjoyed for decades. I guarantee that there are few Americans who have not said this about his most famous composition: "I love that song". He neither smokes, nor drinks, nor gambles, nor chases women. He is funny, and probably the smartest person I currently know. Better than that, he is kind and caring and humble. Never mind the gold records on his wall. He is a mench.
Shall I tell you about the wardrobe mistress who rescues dogs? The location manager who cares for his ailing wife? The numerous craft service people who are on set by 4:30 to make sure the food is ready by the time the crew gets there?
These are but a few of the examples I could write about, the Hollywood people I know and love. I could go on and on. And, I do take umbrage to them being called losers by anyone who has no idea what they are talking about.
You touched a nerve, in case you couldn't tell. I decided to speak up for my friends. They are good people who work in the industry and are definitely not losers.
The first thing I thought of when I heard the rest of the season of 2 1/2 men was cancelled was....what about all those people who work on the show who AREN'T Charlie Sheen who have to provide for their families? It's so sad.
I've never known any Hollywood people, bein' from Alybamy and all....but I did once get to see Charlie Pride recording country music when my 5th grade class went to a recording studio on a field trip.
I don't like country music. Or southern gospel. I think it's all the bad grammar and twang and Bryllcream.
You touched a nerve, in case you couldn't tell. I decided to speak up for my friends. They are good people who work in the industry and are definitely not losers.
/rant
Yes, I could tell I touched a nerve, but be assured it was not meant personally. If the shoe does not fit, why take it personally? You know it was not meant that way.
The vast majority of people who work in the TV and film industry are not losers. They are hard working family people.
Those Hollywood people include the two guys who wrote and produced and stared in your H's favorite TV comedy show (now enjoying re-run heaven). The nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Funny. Self effacing. And, as hard as it is to imagine, given their TV wardrobe choices , very family devoted.
What you are talking about, I suspect, are the very visible & vocal minority who are in the public eye for misbehaving. And really, they are the tinniest minority.
To miscast an entire group this way ... "Hollywood people = losers" ... lacks accuracy as well as imagination.
Both of my H's AA sponsors are Hollywood people. Both exceptionally talented and both good men. Solid men with good moral standards. One of his sponsors did 2 tours of duty as a Marine in Viet Nam before he became a character actor. You see him every day in a variety of commercials & other shows. He is a stand up guy who visits men in prison for no other reason than to help them.
My good friend's husband, and my H's good friend, is a hollywood person too. He's a Julliard educated musician who has been composing music you've enjoyed for decades. I guarantee that there are few Americans who have not said this about his most famous composition: "I love that song". He neither smokes, nor drinks, nor gambles, nor chases women. He is funny, and probably the smartest person I currently know. Better than that, he is kind and caring and humble. Never mind the gold records on his wall. He is a mench.
Shall I tell you about the wardrobe mistress who rescues dogs? The location manager who cares for his ailing wife? The numerous craft service people who are on set by 4:30 to make sure the food is ready by the time the crew gets there?
These are but a few of the examples I could write about, the Hollywood people I know and love. I could go on and on. And, I do take umbrage to them being called losers by anyone who has no idea what they are talking about.
You touched a nerve, in case you couldn't tell. I decided to speak up for my friends. They are good people who work in the industry and are definitely not losers.
/rant
Pep, we don't know about these people. They are normal and boring. They don't get screen time on "Access Hollywood."
Rescuing dogs? Puh. How positively common. I want midgets, cocaine, mallets, and roulette wheels in my Hollywood stories!
The vast majority of people who work in the TV and film industry are not losers. They are hard working family people.
Those Hollywood people include the two guys who wrote and produced and stared in your H's favorite TV comedy show (now enjoying re-run heaven). The nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Funny. Self effacing. And, as hard as it is to imagine, given their TV wardrobe choices , very family devoted.
What you are talking about, I suspect, are the very visible & vocal minority who are in the public eye for misbehaving. And really, they are the tinniest minority.
To miscast an entire group this way ... "Hollywood people = losers" ... lacks accuracy as well as imagination.
Both of my H's AA sponsors are Hollywood people. Both exceptionally talented and both good men. Solid men with good moral standards. One of his sponsors did 2 tours of duty as a Marine in Viet Nam before he became a character actor. You see him every day in a variety of commercials & other shows. He is a stand up guy who visits men in prison for no other reason than to help them.
My good friend's husband, and my H's good friend, is a hollywood person too. He's a Julliard educated musician who has been composing music you've enjoyed for decades. I guarantee that there are few Americans who have not said this about his most famous composition: "I love that song". He neither smokes, nor drinks, nor gambles, nor chases women. He is funny, and probably the smartest person I currently know. Better than that, he is kind and caring and humble. Never mind the gold records on his wall. He is a mench.
Shall I tell you about the wardrobe mistress who rescues dogs? The location manager who cares for his ailing wife? The numerous craft service people who are on set by 4:30 to make sure the food is ready by the time the crew gets there?
These are but a few of the examples I could write about, the Hollywood people I know and love. I could go on and on. And, I do take umbrage to them being called losers by anyone who has no idea what they are talking about.
You touched a nerve, in case you couldn't tell. I decided to speak up for my friends. They are good people who work in the industry and are definitely not losers.
/rant
Hugs to you and Mr. Pep! I am so glad you posted this rant. It felt so one sided and much like the media likes to portray Christians. Yes, all of us Christians are murderous, bible thumping, judgemental about everything FOOLS!
Hugs to you and Mr. Pep! I am so glad you posted this rant. It felt so one sided and much like the media likes to portray Christians. Yes, all of us Christians are murderous, bible thumping, judgemental about everything FOOLS!
That's the problem with making global sweeping generalizations about any group that is, by nature, diverse. Especially without citing any data to back it up.
There will be some who fit the stereotype, and many more who do not.
Not all southern gals are toothless, pregnant by their uncle, and skinning a squirrel for tonight's dinner. Right, Luri?
Hugs to you and Mr. Pep! I am so glad you posted this rant. It felt so one sided and much like the media likes to portray Christians. Yes, all of us Christians are murderous, bible thumping, judgemental about everything FOOLS!
That's the problem with making global sweeping generalizations about any group that is, by nature, diverse. Especially without citing any data to back it up.
There will be some who fit the stereotype, and many more who do not.
Not all southern gals are toothless, pregnant by their uncle, and skinning a squirrel for tonight's dinner. Right, Luri?
I guess an apology is not enough? What would be enough, then?
Not all southern gals are toothless, pregnant by their uncle, and skinning a squirrel for tonight's dinner. Right, Luri?
And frankly, when someone does make such jokes about the south [and I hear them often], I laugh. Since I know those generalizations are not true, why would I take it personally?
But if someone did offend me with a joke and they apologized, I think I would be gracious enough to accept their apology rather than pile on.
So just what will it take to assuage your offense? Tell me what..
Hugs to you and Mr. Pep! I am so glad you posted this rant. It felt so one sided and much like the media likes to portray Christians. Yes, all of us Christians are murderous, bible thumping, judgemental about everything FOOLS!
That's the problem with making global sweeping generalizations about any group that is, by nature, diverse. Especially without citing any data to back it up.
There will be some who fit the stereotype, and many more who do not.
Not all southern gals are toothless, pregnant by their uncle, and skinning a squirrel for tonight's dinner. Right, Luri?
Sadly, some southern women are like that....and a lot of them have children on Toddlers and Tiaras.
Seriously, what is with that show???? I mean, I was in pageants....because I wanted to be. I watched it some at the hotel this weekend....and it made me quite sad. Let's spend some of that sequin money on grammar lessons people!!
Actually, I have been rebuked before about my apparent anti-redneck snobbery. I was one of those southern girls who went to charm school and still doesn't wear white after Labor Day....and my china set has finger bowls! But I still pass gas sometimes
Here's a rant - these last few posts have nothing to do with marriage and the lazy old mods haven't even once said:
"Let's stick to Marriage Building Folks"
hee hee hee. I just feel the need to include them sometimes because they just sit and read all this stuff all day, with their names just sitting there all lonely at the bottom of the screen. No one every writes or calls or sends them cookies. It's like being a teacher, except at least little kids are cute.
Not all southern gals are toothless, pregnant by their uncle, and skinning a squirrel for tonight's dinner. Right, Luri?
HEY! My mama has never been pregnant by her uncle, and she has a beautiful set of store-bought teeth, but she used to skin squirrels for our supper!
She quit, though, right after she accidentally killed our pet squirrel when she forgot he was following her out the screen door and the door slammed shut on him.
..Actually, I have been rebuked before about my apparent anti-redneck snobbery. ..
You guys are killin me really..
I was told the term red-neck came from a condition that midwest farmers got from eating to much corn in thier diet, but then I got muhself edgamucated.
It comes from a band of freedom fighters in appalachia, who fought against the coal-mining corperations, and wore red bandanas around there necks. There land was being destroyed. Dirty tree huggin rednecks.
I remember being about 5 years old, and being brought up in a time when little kids could leave thier house for about two hours, and not have to worry as much about them being abducted, (1962?), and in a pretty decent small town in western Mass. Well an older kid, about ten or twelve, took me hunting one day, and we shot a squirrel and cooked it over a fire in the woods. No he didn't try to have sex with me, but he did teach me how to slaughter chickens, cuz thats how his family made money. (Running around like a chicken with its head cut off means a little more when your a 5 yr old and you are the one who did it.)
Then there was the county Marshall, who was also a neighbor. I was shocked when I picked up a kitten from the road that had been just ran over, and its head was crushed, but it was still moving, and I brought it to him, because it was right outside his yard. He finished it off with a hammer, and put it out of its misery. I cried and ran home to tell Mom. I learned that was mercy for a suffering animal. I hope they would do the same if it happened to me. You learn that stuff being around them there country folk. I wouldn't want to live with tubes sticking out of me with no ability to respond to anybody, what kind of life would that be? with no hope of recovery. Crippled is one thing, I have messed up legs since 12, and still have a good life. Brain dead is another, at that point I am just an ornament. But thats just my opinion. Then again, if I took another life with premeditation, not in war or self-defense, I would also call it mercy if authorites took mine also. But that is just the redneck in me.
I used to be quite stunning in a tux, in my 20s, and it would be so funny to witness peoples reactions, when I was working a Host in a french restaurant,(Not a real one, just one in the local Hilton), when I would stop at the local convienience store or supermarket. See I noticed the cashiers, yes the pretty ones sorry, I am human, but they didn't remember me, at least not my alter ego who would come in when I was working on a car in my spare time. When I was dressed to kill they would allways smile and have eye contact, and when I was grubby they acted differently. I guess clothes really do make the man.
Which brings me around to the acting industry, and the nessesary role models we can seem to only find in movies and entertainment. Yes we all need role models, and the best stories are the ones that are true, about real people, who faced down staggaring odds, to enforce a moral code that everyone can get on board with. But we also need the roles that are fictitious, like the Rocky movies, to agree with also, to inspire. This art form has replaced books with most of todays youth, and it serves a purpose in society, and in our imaginations. Yes Hollywood is driven by advertizing, and cheap thrills are there for all of us to give into, but we still make the choice of climbing aboard the popular opinion train, and rallying around to watch the hanging of others who have fallen, or calmly ignoring them, while we just continue to take personal accoutabilty for ourselves, and make good decisions. Its unfortunate that someone like Charlie Sheen has made such bad decisions, and that he has fogged his life up with drugs, women, and blind selfish behavior, and that he is so blind he can't see it. I wonder if he ever sees that people are blind, and his actions are contributing to moral decay, and blaming it on anything else besides his own frail humanity just spins him in circles. His conscience must be in turmoil. I could never envy that, but he will allways have people who support him, especially like in the case of Tiger Woods, many believe in the image, and don't know the man. The point being, I don't think Charlie knows himself, and in the land of images, he is ruled by public opinion, and the marketplace, and whatever false Idols us humans create.
That is what I meant when I said its what happens when they become thier own Gods Pep. Its the collateral damage that many in the public eye fall victim to. If Charlie Sheen was to show up on these forums, without giving his name, and we could sort out the fog in his head, I think we all can agree we would treat him like any other Wayward. If we found out who he was, we would probably be tainted in our judgement, just like a jury who read the paper and knew something about a murder case. We are quick to hang someone according to popular opinion, and yet we do not see the big picture, and we must judge others by thier actions, we must, because we are not God, and only see and understand partly another persons life.
Its sad the film industry and the hollywood gossip has had a part in Mr. Sheens downfall, and people are so quick to crucify him, but that is part of what happens in the public eye. I think of people like Shirley Temple, and Ronald Reagan, who have contributed service to our country, along with many of the Actors and people behind the scenes who are hard working dedicated people in an art form that is so powerful, and can be used for great things. I beleive it is also.
I hope Charlie Sheen will come around and get an epiphamy, a sorta "Alone with the God of his conscience" and or maybe grow one. But I doubt many will forget what he has done, or the fogbabble he spews. Thats the price of being in the public eye, and having the money to do whatever you want. with seemingly no consequences. He is in Gods hands.
...hee hee hee. I just feel the need to include them sometimes because they just sit and read all this stuff all day, with their names just sitting there all lonely at the bottom of the screen. No one every writes or calls or sends them cookies. It's like being a teacher, except at least little kids are cute.
Amen CP! I feel the same way about Ronald Reagan and Shirley Temple. President Reagan was a man btw, (read his biography and he's a hero to me as how he lived as a single father after his divorce) and probably was a betrayed spouse too, as Jane Wyman had a dubious exit to their marriage. 100% class act and his marriage to Nancy is the kind of second marriage my husband and I strive for.
He he he...back to bashing waywards right now.
Ya'll know I am NO FAN of the royal idiot, Camilla PORKER BACON...um...I mean BOWLES!
I just found out today that poor Camilla, days before her stepson marries his legitimate princess to be (aka, not a marriage born from sin like Ms. Porker-Bacons' was), that his gorgeous mom's wedding dress will be put ON DISPLAY for tourists and the world to see before the royal wedding.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH. She has to endure being second fiddle and second best again! Such is the lot for her.
Anybody know what her official title is in England? I will help you out. She is NOT the Princess of Wales. Nope.
She is (hold onto something for you will be doubled over with bouts of wicked laughter)....
Right now she is the DUCHESS OF CORNHOLE..UM...make that Cornwall!
And if Charles ever takes the throne, she will be the PRINCESS CONSORT!!!.
Egads...I hate her hats too. But it doth cover her countenance! And for that I am truly thankful!
Fwiw, if you removed the duchess of cornhole, added a base, that hat would make a really large lamp, maybe even a floor lamp, judging from the hugeness of the diameter of the chapeau.
Or a tiny alien could borrow it and use it as a model to create a flying saucer!
Amen CP! I feel the same way about Ronald Reagan and Shirley Temple. President Reagan was a man btw, (read his biography and he's a hero to me as how he lived as a single father after his divorce) and probably was a betrayed spouse too, as Jane Wyman had a dubious exit to their marriage. 100% class act and his marriage to Nancy is the kind of second marriage my husband and I strive for.
He he he...back to bashing waywards right now.
Ya'll know I am NO FAN of the royal idiot, Camilla PORKER BACON...um...I mean BOWLES!
I just found out today that poor Camilla, days before her stepson marries his legitimate princess to be (aka, not a marriage born from sin like Ms. Porker-Bacons' was), that his gorgeous mom's wedding dress will be put ON DISPLAY for tourists and the world to see before the royal wedding.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH. She has to endure being second fiddle and second best again! Such is the lot for her.
Anybody know what her official title is in England? I will help you out. She is NOT the Princess of Wales. Nope.
She is (hold onto something for you will be doubled over with bouts of wicked laughter)....
Right now she is the DUCHESS OF CORNHOLE..UM...make that Cornwall!
And if Charles ever takes the throne, she will be the PRINCESS CONSORT!!!.
Egads...I hate her hats too. But it doth cover her countenance! And for that I am truly thankful!
This is priceless. That hat is too ugly even for a lamp. It will help to cover her shame.
Yes Duchess of Cornhole and Charles is Duke of JackWagon.
I still haven't forgiven you for Martin Short and Celine Dion.... not to mention Pamela Anderson.
Folks, you should go to some of our US border towns and see what those Canadians inflict on us every year!!! They send these little short, overly polite senior citizens on "holiday" [that means vacation] in the US. They flood many of our border towns. They are all short and don't know how to use turn lanes so they can barely see over the dashboards and cause traffic jams for miles! THANKS OH CANADA!
I still haven't forgiven you for Martin Short and Celine Dion.... not to mention Pamela Anderson.
Folks, you should go to some of our US border towns and see what those Canadians inflict on us every year!!! They send these little short, overly polite senior citizens on "holiday" [that means vacation] in the US. They flood many of our border towns. They are all short and don't know how to use turn lanes so they can barely see over the dashboards and cause traffic jams for miles! THANKS OH CANADA!
Mel, Canada is North of us... those border town tourists of yours are Mexicans...
Canadians are much pastier. Take it from someone who shares a border with BC, eh?
In 2001, at least one Canadian border guard gave us a big laugh. No...NOT because he was short, but because his bulb seemed to be a little bit dim.
We went across the border to see Niagara Falls. It was raining and cold...just a miserable day, so we stayed a few hours and came back across the border.
Of course, he asked all the usual questions that he probably knew all the answers to, considering that they had most likely already checked our license plates.
So, he asked where we were from, and we told him our state in the Deep South. Then, he wanted to know why we had come to Canada and why we only stayed 4 hours. We replied, "To see the Falls." He then said, "You mean you drove all the way to Canada just to spend only 4 hours at Niagara Falls?"
I still haven't forgiven you for Martin Short and Celine Dion.... not to mention Pamela Anderson.
Folks, you should go to some of our US border towns and see what those Canadians inflict on us every year!!! They send these little short, overly polite senior citizens on "holiday" [that means vacation] in the US. They flood many of our border towns. They are all short and don't know how to use turn lanes so they can barely see over the dashboards and cause traffic jams for miles! THANKS OH CANADA!
Mel, Canada is North of us... those border town tourists of yours are Mexicans...
Canadians are much pastier. Take it from someone who shares a border with BC, eh?
Actually, if you have ever lived in certain parts of AL you know this is a lie. We do not always speak English. In fact, if ye come in and set a spell, I'll fix ye a cold drank. But git on inside cause it's comin' up a cloud. Last time it came up a cloud I done saw that tarnada just 'fore it hit my trailer and shattered all my porceline pig collectibles.
I loved the joke Billy Crystal did, when he said he wants to grow to be an old man, and when some teenager with a wax fruit in his ear, come up behind him in his car, beeping at him cuz he is driving 40 in the fast lane, he can give him the bird.
I still remember him in soap, when he played, the homosexual son, and the only person who had a brain in the whole family. He went to Texas to meet with his beutiful brides Mom, (yeah I guess he got converted), and the Mom said, "Are you a Ho-MO?" with that southern drawl. what a hoot!
I sure love it that Texans tell it like it they see it.
A friend of mine, really straighened me out once, when I told him I worked so hard because I felt God did not intend for his people to live in shacks. He said he knew a lot of people who lived thier whole life in shacks, and was offended by that statement. He was from Texas also, and also said his Momma told him it wasn't fair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
A Pastor friend of mine, who I shared with that i wanted to make a lot of money so I could help build churches, also was born and raised in the Texas oil fields. He said he was of that mind once, untill God told him he wanted all Gods people to build the church, not just him. Guess thats the perspective that only come with age and humility.
I hope when I get short and old I can finally go down and test all the patience of texans, and the rest of the world, as I am sure I will, lol, as I tour the country. Where is the alamo now?
Actually, if you have ever lived in certain parts of AL you know this is a lie. We do not always speak English. In fact, if ye come in and set a spell, I'll fix ye a cold drank. But git on inside cause it's comin' up a cloud. Last time it came up a cloud I done saw that tarnada just 'fore it hit my trailer and shattered all my porceline pig collectibles.
Accucally went to the Canadian half of Niagra falls, and met some guys who talked with the "Eay" in thier lauguage. It was hilarious, hung out with them all night.
A friend of mine, really straighened me out once, when I told him I worked so hard because I felt God did not intend for his people to live in shacks. He said he knew a lot of people who lived thier whole life in shacks, and was offended by that statement. He was from Texas also, and also said his Momma told him it wasn't fair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
TWC & I were on vacation there, and we were in a diner one morning. I ordered a coffee to go along with my blueberry pancakes, and the waitress asked me "Lajjus moll?"
Wha? I looked at her with probably the same bewildered expression that you see on the old RCA logo, where the dog is looking into an old phonograph speaker.
Somehow, my wife (who is also not from there) was able to translate for me:
In 80 I was living in AZ for a summer, and my then freshly WW were headinfg back to homestate after the A, and we needed a car to make the trip. We purchased a buick from someone, with Texas plates.
Somewhere in Col, I had been sporting a straw hat, and I was in the cashiers line paying with a credit card, at a diner/truckstop. Back then they asked the plate number and state. I said "Texas".
Well the gentleman next to me, who seemed like an average Joe, or maybe a trucker, sprung to life. He took a step towards me and with a smile said,"Are you from Texas?".
I said "Accually no, I'm from Mass, and am..." Well his countanance fell, the smile left his face, and he said in disapointment, "Oh", and took a step back.
TWC & I were on vacation there, and we were in a diner one morning. I ordered a coffee to go along with my blueberry pancakes, and the waitress asked me "Lajjus moll?"
Wha? I looked at her with probably the same bewildered expression that you see on the old RCA logo, where the dog is looking into an old phonograph speaker.
Somehow, my wife (who is also not from there) was able to translate for me:
"Large or small?"
Y'all from 'round them thar other parts get us in the Northwest lost pretty dang quick.
You got;
The people from New Yawk, or New Joisey, or from Bawston.
I worked a trade show with some fellas from Bawston when I was 17, gettin the shoes off da truck, and crushin da codbod.
How is it, that most of the Eastern seabord has lost the letter "R?" Did they shed the use of it when they shed reliance on the English crown? Or did they just export it in Western expansion, never to be heard from again?
(agin? uh-gay-n? Canadian English teachers hate it when you say uh-gin, eh? What's that all aboot?)
In 2001, at least one Canadian border guard gave us a big laugh. No...NOT because he was short, but because his bulb seemed to be a little bit dim.
We went across the border to see Niagara Falls. It was raining and cold...just a miserable day, so we stayed a few hours and came back across the border.
Of course, he asked all the usual questions that he probably knew all the answers to, considering that they had most likely already checked our license plates.
So, he asked where we were from, and we told him our state in the Deep South. Then, he wanted to know why we had come to Canada and why we only stayed 4 hours. We replied, "To see the Falls." He then said, "You mean you drove all the way to Canada just to spend only 4 hours at Niagara Falls?"
UMMMM, I dunno how to tell you this, THAT was an AMERICAN border guard if you were going back to the States. We don't care when you're leaving, only when you are coming into the country.
Why do so MANY attorneys advise clients to NOT change the locks on their own houses when one spouse has moved out?
Why do so MANY people even ASK the attorney whether is it ok to change the locks or not? If it is your house, you are living in it, just change the locks and be done with it.
Our world is twisted and backward, armymama. remember the WW who sued her BH for checking her email to confirm an A? SHE cheated and HE got prosecuted? Stupid.
I call it boomerang fingerpointing. Your could get whiplash from watching the comments get flipped, turned around and blasted back with Superhuman speed.
Some IC suggest this as a form of "therapy".
Answer a question with a question. "Don't deny or agree, send it back C.O.D!"(Hey, I made a funny!!!) If you do this long enough, surely your partner will give up.
As is your right. You have every right to come in, get what you need and leave.
But you don't quite do that...
Having benefitted, when you were in crisis, from the help of volunteer posters, you come back to lob a criticism every once in a while of the way others give that help...the help that saved you.
As is your right. You have every right to come in, get what you need and leave.
But you don't quite do that...
Having benefitted, when you were in crisis, from the help of volunteer posters, you come back to lob a criticism every once in a while of the way others give that help...the help that saved you.
..Having benefitted, when you were in crisis, from the help of volunteer posters, you come back to lob a criticism every once in a while of the way others give that help...the help that saved you.
That is insulting.
Grrr.
ITA SC. It seems people will not give up and admit they are fallible, so they attack others to point out details, so they won't have to look at themselves.
The punishment they inflict is mostly felt by them though, as in some people would rather live in that comfortable and can I say lazy world of believing they are ussually right, and the world is wrong. Thier ego would rather believe they were dealt a bad hand, when all along they were being taught and they were bad students.
They live with themselves, I guess as long as I don't have to, I can open my ears and hear from people with the right intentions, and hopefully also descern thier heart, which is what I care about.
Its Par for the course though, that it takes so much time for someone to change what they attack the very people and things that accually helped them in thier time of need, because they cannot see the spitit behind the help, and they want to restored to that "numb-minded" status they once enjoyed in ignorance.
Having been beat up too many times to count IRL for saying things wrong, I understand why people get alarmed here.
But really - having read the offending thread and read the early apology, And the beatings continue? Really? Really?
Come on people! I've read criticisms about posts with no apology in them that were way more worth getting offended at than the one you're climbing all over.
I guess when people have been swung at by prideful and arrogant waywards about their posting style, they see an attack when it was just a word.
Just a word, people.
Now, I can't go have the one man who needs to read that original post more than any conflict avoiding betrayed husband on this board because of all the detracting offended posts over a single word.
Me thinks the word bitter has been used as an abuse word at survivor betrayed spouses more often than we can count. And because of that, there seems to be an extraordinary need to snuff out any person who doesn't mind their words very carefully. Even after they apologize.
I think that's what gets my rant a going. HE APOLOGIZED. And the beatings continue. Now he's getting defensive. Can you blame him?
Let's tone this down and get back to business! If you have a complaint about a poster, click the notify button and let the moderators handle it. Otherwise, let this drop.
I have no idea what is going on......but maybe I shouldn't rant here. It was actually a rant about how I am realizing MB is probably the only sane place on the internet. But I have used the work bitter before, and I am a FWW, so maybe I am one who has been insulting. So I'll just refrain......and sya thank you for the help and I realize now why it's to good to.....have have consistent principles.
Just sat down to waste time w/ the TV, stumbled across TLC's "Say Yes to the Dress" - a show about Kleinfeld's bridal salon in NYC and the brides who come there for their gowns.
What automatically comes to mind when they introduce one client w/ an imminent but "may have to be pushed back" wedding date...due to her waiting on the divorce papers from her previous marriage to come through?! GAH!!
It didn't stop there. She glossed over the "married my high school sweetheart and it didn't really work out," and was beaming over the fact she had "gotten a second chance" and "fallen in love with a wonderful (new) man" AND HAS AN 8-MONTH-OLD SON WITH HER NOW-FIANCE.
Ugh. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that infidelity would inevitably taint a wedding-related show, but for it to be so happily put out there by the wayward bride-to-be....ugh.
Sounds like another one "running on empty" doesn't it. Yeah a Cinderella show would have those kinds of storys, and that they are unaware of how stupid they sound.
My rant is about the use of the term "vet" on this board. It is typically used to refer to members who have been here for a long time as if they have some sort of elevated status and special knowledge.
Just because a person has been here for awhile means very little. I know people who have been members for 10 years who don't even OWN a single Marriage Builders book and wouldn't know a POJA from a ham sandwich. But, I know people who have been on this board for 6 months, who know this program inside and out. Those are the true vets, IMO!!
Okay, then we should add a definition list to the top of the forums. I'll start it:
Vets: members who have been here a long time and who may or may not know MB principles or even own an MB book.
SVets (sneaky vets): members who have been here a long time but who now only appear under false pretenses to (a) mine for email addresses or (b) to try and stir up trouble.
KVet (knowledgeable vets): members who have been here a long time, know the difference between a ham sandwich and a POJA, and post as much as they can to help.
PMBVets (practicing MB vets): members who have been here a long time and who actually practice MB principles, and post as much as they can to help.
U&CMVPVets (Up and coming MVPVets): members who have not been members for a long time, but who are striving to learn about and practice MB principles, and who selflessly post to those who need help.
MVPVets (most valuable player vets): members who have been here a long time, are extremely knowledgeable about and practice MB principles, and selflessly continue to post to those who need help.
Okay, then we should add a definition list to the top of the forums. I'll start it:
Vets: members who have been here a long time and who may or may not know MB principles or even own an MB book.
SVets (sneaky vets): members who have been here a long time but who now only appear under false pretenses to try to stir up trouble.
KVet (knowledgeable vets): members who have been here a long time, know the difference between a ham sandwich and a POJA, and post as much as they can to help.
PMBVets (practicing MB vets): members who have been here a long time and who actually practice MB principles, and post as much as they can to help.
U&CMVPVets (Up and coming MVPVets): members who have not been members for a long time, but who are striving to learn about and practice MB principles, and who selflessly post to those who need help.
MVPVets (most valuable player vets): members who have been here a long time, are extremely knowledgeable about and practice MB principles, and selflessly continue to post to those who need help.
What automatically comes to mind when they introduce one client w/ an imminent but "may have to be pushed back" wedding date...due to her waiting on the divorce papers from her previous marriage to come through?! GAH!!
It didn't stop there. She glossed over the "married my high school sweetheart and it didn't really work out," and was beaming over the fact she had "gotten a second chance" and "fallen in love with a wonderful (new) man" AND HAS AN 8-MONTH-OLD SON WITH HER NOW-FIANCE.
Ugh. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that infidelity would inevitably taint a wedding-related show, but for it to be so happily put out there by the wayward bride-to-be....ugh.
Ugh is right! Can you imagine a child/teenager watching that show? Hopefully a parent would speak up and then switch the channel.
I have a simplified definition of MB vet that I use. It doesn't depend on MBage(how long you've been around here). I consider someone a vet when I can trust their knowledge about MB as coinciding with the teachings of DrH, and that every post they make is BANG ON. As long as they meet those requirements, I call them "vets"
I have a simplified definition of MB vet that I use. It doesn't depend on MBage(how long you've been around here). I consider someone a vet when I can trust their knowledge about MB as coinciding with the teachings of DrH, and that every post they make is BANG ON. As long as they meet those requirements, I call them "vets"
Funny - when I hear "Vet" I think of the doctor that used to come out to the farm to help with a sick horse or cow - and sometimes us kids would get him to look at our kitties while the parents weren't looking - cats didn't warrant the fees.
I have a simplified definition of MB vet that I use. It doesn't depend on MBage(how long you've been around here). I consider someone a vet when I can trust their knowledge about MB as coinciding with the teachings of DrH, and that every post they make is BANG ON. As long as they meet those requirements, I call them "vets"
Those are called people with brains IMO. If you come here and don't recognize the truth when you read DR Hs articles, there is something wrong upstairs.
Now the BSs that just can't belive what is happening to them, and the level of pain and heartbreak they suffer, I can understand why they are reluctant to act, and blame themselves.
But the layman who argues the example that is laid out in MB, well I wonder what planet they came from.
We all have personal agenda for being here, healing, learning, self- examination, and maybe helping also, but it doesn't take a PHD to understand that what DR H is teaching is the best you could find in any marriage, nevermind all forms of relationships, and it covers it all, even if you want to split hairs.
If you get that, and have heard or seen enough Bullchit in your life, maybe you can contribute to helping. But the true Vets are the ones who have been here for years, and submitted thier own personal agendas to the wisdom of the Dr., and have experience that reads between the lines.
Thanks vets!
(Oh darn, I did it again, praised people in a rant thread)
Funny - when I hear "Vet" I think of the doctor that used to come out to the farm to help with a sick horse or cow - and sometimes us kids would get him to look at our kitties while the parents weren't looking - cats didn't warrant the fees.
Hmmmm. Perhaps some comparisons are in order???
Interesting comparison KA. Why wouldn't people go to the Dr and get the proper attention and the cure. It can't be the fees, I mean money is not the issue is it?
Or is it the stubborness of insisting things go back to the unhealthy state that brought them here? Afraid of change, even though it is being painfully being made obvious that it is time for it?
I think that most want to go back, and do not want to do the work of maintaining growth and love in the marriage. The question is why?
Betcha DR H would see it quickly, and cut the crap out fast as he saw it, but with wisdom knowing what sort of person he is dealing with.
My idea of a "vet" is somebody who has survived a war, survived hell - and somehow came out BETTER on the other end of the experience, rather than broken and... ear muffs, kids... here comes that naughty word
bitter.
That takes more than heart, more than brains, more than pure will. It takes that much just to SURVIVE.
Surviving a horrible experience and coming out the other side with the strength and will to be able to talk about it freely, and to support others suffering a similar hell is NOT THE NORMAL HUMAN EXPERIENCE.
It takes a special few who can master their agony and hone it as a weapon of hope for themselves and others.
Okay, then we should add a definition list to the top of the forums. I'll start it:
Vets: members who have been here a long time and who may or may not know MB principles or even own an MB book.
SVets (sneaky vets): members who have been here a long time but who now only appear under false pretenses to (a) mine for email addresses or (b) to try and stir up trouble.
KVet (knowledgeable vets): members who have been here a long time, know the difference between a ham sandwich and a POJA, and post as much as they can to help.
PMBVets (practicing MB vets): members who have been here a long time and who actually practice MB principles, and post as much as they can to help.
U&CMVPVets (Up and coming MVPVets): members who have not been members for a long time, but who are striving to learn about and practice MB principles, and who selflessly post to those who need help.
MVPVets (most valuable player vets): members who have been here a long time, are extremely knowledgeable about and practice MB principles, and selflessly continue to post to those who need help.
PM....how about LFMM-Vets --- Learm from my mistakes-Vet???
PM....how about LFMM-Vets --- Learm from my mistakes-Vet???
In my world thats the only kind! At least experience wise in the battles I have been in. The ones I have avoided I only get credit for listening to others who steered me clear.
Why do people not see that ENs being met are part of the journey of BOTH partners to understand themselves?
That having someone meet your,(sometimes temporary percieved), ENs as YOU see them, is the point?
Example,.. A man decides he needs SF frequently to be happy, and his W gives that to him willingly, only to discover its her willingness he really needs.
Number 2--A Woman decides she needs Recreational Companionship so H goes places and share outside interests willingly, and puts time into the relationship, only to discover what she really wanted was to know he cared about her and her interests.
Those are just two examples of how the BASIC, concepts of ENs apply, the ENs being the ROOT of much more that can be discovered about ourselves and loved ones. ENs will change and some will become more prevelant as time goes on, but they will allways exist as EVIDENCE that someone loves us when some cares enough to meet them.
I can hear guys saying, "Oh darn I gotta sit thru that with her!" or Women saying "Oh not again tonight!" and the undertone that goes with that, instead of appreciating the opportunity to love someone and having the means to also. We all know how that feels.
Too many times the taker is in charge, and the giver is pushed to the rear as being a fool. I don't know about anyone else but I enjoy being a fool when I am in love.
Thank you, CP! It really was an enlightenment for me... I thought there was sth wrong with me, being unable to decide what my needs truly were...
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Ok I have a rant,
Why do people not see that ENs being met are part of the journey of BOTH partners to understand themselves?
That having someone meet your,(sometimes temporary percieved), ENs as YOU see them, is the point?
Example,.. A man decides he needs SF frequently to be happy, and his W gives that to him willingly, only to discover its her willingness he really needs.
Number 2--A Woman decides she needs Recreational Companionship so H goes places and share outside interests willingly, and puts time into the relationship, only to discover what she really wanted was to know he cared about her and her interests.
Those are just two examples of how the BASIC, concepts of ENs apply, the ENs being the ROOT of much more that can be discovered about ourselves and loved ones. ENs will change and some will become more prevelant as time goes on, but they will allways exist as EVIDENCE that someone loves us when some cares enough to meet them.
Why do people not see that ENs being met are part of the journey of BOTH partners to understand themselves?
That having someone meet your,(sometimes temporary percieved), ENs as YOU see them, is the point?
Example,.. A man decides he needs SF frequently to be happy, and his W gives that to him willingly, only to discover its her willingness he really needs.
Number 2--A Woman decides she needs Recreational Companionship so H goes places and share outside interests willingly, and puts time into the relationship, only to discover what she really wanted was to know he cared about her and her interests.
Those are just two examples of how the BASIC, concepts of ENs apply, the ENs being the ROOT of much more that can be discovered about ourselves and loved ones. ENs will change and some will become more prevelant as time goes on, but they will allways exist as EVIDENCE that someone loves us when some cares enough to meet them.
I can hear guys saying, "Oh darn I gotta sit thru that with her!" or Women saying "Oh not again tonight!" and the undertone that goes with that, instead of appreciating the opportunity to love someone and having the means to also. We all know how that feels.
Too many times the taker is in charge, and the giver is pushed to the rear as being a fool. I don't know about anyone else but I enjoy being a fool when I am in love.
Sometimes people forget that the MB list of emotional needs are CATEGORIES, not specific needs. Those CATEGORIES cover most needs that people had expressed to Dr. Harley as he formulated them.
RC could absolutely be watching TV for one person, or joining a bowling league for another.
And sometimes, people want to stick it all to the hard-copy categorical definition. So, if they feel they have a need that falls outside of one of those categories, it is often because it doesn't fit to the hard-written definition.
Alas, we didn't develop the program, and such don't really have room to argue.
Sometimes people forget that the MB list of emotional needs are CATEGORIES, not specific needs. Those CATEGORIES cover most needs that people had expressed to Dr. Harley as he formulated them.
RC could absolutely be watching TV for one person, or joining a bowling league for another.
Yeah a little imagination is nessesary wouldn't one think? Or the questionarire would be endless if you had to specify what RC was until it dawned on the user that it applies to them also.
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
And sometimes, people want to stick it all to the hard-copy categorical definition. So, if they feel they have a need that falls outside of one of those categories, it is often because it doesn't fit to the hard-written definition.
Alas, we didn't develop the program, and such don't really have room to argue.
Yes I agree, and I wonder how many people split hairs on wording that DR H probably has painstakingly went over in the questionaires?
The big problem and what frosts my shorts is that people think they are sooo different than everybody else, and won't accept that they have those basic ENs. I blame/credit it to falling in love in the first place, where they thought they were both unique and different, because they had "chemistry", and not seeing that was only the beginning. Also wanting to remain there without changing and growing as life demands us to.
We sometimes don't want to be catagorized and labeled with the same afflictions and weaknesses as others, because that will take out of that "special" love status that we think we have attained, and want to stay in. "Oh, just help me get it back to what it was, I know there are/were problems, but I loved what we had". Such is the drug of "in love", it can stand up to being examined, but we can be so afraid of losing it, we forget its ours to refine.
I can remember thinking "As long as ______, stays the same, and ______happens, I will be happy", only to find that those things change, and I was still challanged to love. Love is separate from being "in-love". We are not able to cover all the bases and love in the purest sense of the word at all times. We can grow and learn to but ussually it comes with mistakes, as we are not perfect but learning how to love as we grow. Meeting each other basic and extended ENs assures us to stay together as we learn.
What a simple science DR H has laid out for us human beings. Simple but not easy unless we are able to listen and open our hearts and minds.
Sometimes people forget that the MB list of emotional needs are CATEGORIES, not specific needs. Those CATEGORIES cover most needs that people had expressed to Dr. Harley as he formulated them.
RC could absolutely be watching TV for one person, or joining a bowling league for another.
Yeah a little imagination is nessesary wouldn't one think? Or the questionarire would be endless if you had to specify what RC was until it dawned on the user that it applies to them also.
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
And sometimes, people want to stick it all to the hard-copy categorical definition. So, if they feel they have a need that falls outside of one of those categories, it is often because it doesn't fit to the hard-written definition.
Alas, we didn't develop the program, and such don't really have room to argue.
Yes I agree, and I wonder how many people split hairs on wording that DR H probably has painstakingly went over in the questionaires?
The big problem and what frosts my shorts is that people think they are sooo different than everybody else, and won't accept that they have those basic ENs. I blame/credit it to falling in love in the first place, where they thought they were both unique and different, because they had "chemistry", and not seeing that was only the beginning. Also wanting to remain there without changing and growing as life demands us to.
We sometimes don't want to be catagorized and labeled with the same afflictions and weaknesses as others, because that will take out of that "special" love status that we think we have attained, and want to stay in. "Oh, just help me get it back to what it was, I know there are/were problems, but I loved what we had". Such is the drug of "in love", it can stand up to being examined, but we can be so afraid of losing it, we forget its ours to refine.
I can remember thinking "As long as ______, stays the same, and ______happens, I will be happy", only to find that those things change, and I was still challanged to love. Love is separate from being "in-love". We are not able to cover all the bases and love in the purest sense of the word at all times. We can grow and learn to but ussually it comes with mistakes, as we are not perfect but learning how to love as we grow. Meeting each other basic and extended ENs assures us to stay together as we learn.
What a simple science DR H has laid out for us human beings. Simple but not easy unless we are able to listen and open our hearts and minds.
CP, what I'm wondering, is when Dr. Harley started making his observations about the similarities between addiction and affairs.... and, well... being in love.
Over the past 10 years his observation has been proven physiologically true.
Had a Dr.'s appointment for FWW, and I was reading a magazine in the office about the top 100 scientific discoveries of 2010 - and the fact that the same areas in the brain that become active during drug use and addiction become active when someone views a picture of an ex.
Though, they also saw cognitive centers get lit up, and centers of the brain which associate pain (this was in the case of an ex, mind you).
Oh, those beastly little squishy organs in our skulls. How I hate them sometimes.
CP, what I'm wondering, is when Dr. Harley started making his observations about the similarities between addiction and affairs.... and, well... being in love.
Over the past 10 years his observation has been proven physiologically true.
Had a Dr.'s appointment for FWW, and I was reading a magazine in the office about the top 100 scientific discoveries of 2010 - and the fact that the same areas in the brain that become active during drug use and addiction become active when someone views a picture of an ex.
Though, they also saw cognitive centers get lit up, and centers of the brain which associate pain (this was in the case of an ex, mind you).
Oh, those beastly little squishy organs in our skulls. How I hate them sometimes.
Of course I cannot find the article.. but DR H served as an substance abuse counsellor and ran a few clinics for it think 10 years. I am sure he understands the link in our brains to thought, action, habits ,and the feel good areas they serve.
Here is the article that brought me to this site on a google search.
This is the excerpt that brought grace to me, because it is what I allways knew in my heart was true.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
One of the first things I do when couples see me for counseling is to evaluate them for drug and alcohol addiction. If I feel that either is addicted at the time, I refer the addicted spouse to a treatment program. The Love Buster, drug or alcohol addiction, will prevent them from resolving their marital conflicts because it controls them. It must be eliminated before marital therapy has any hope of being successful.
My job as a marriage counselor begins after successful treatment and sobriety. If the addicted spouse refuses treatment, then I direct the unaddicted spouse to Alanon or some other support group for spouses of alcoholics. Sometimes, I encourage an intervention.
That's what I learned to do after discovering that an alcoholic is so much in love with alcohol, that while in the state of addiction, there is no way for them to consider their spouse's feelings whenever they make decisions, a necessary condition for a great marriage. Alcohol always comes first, even when it is at the spouse's expense.
But even after sobriety is achieved, it's an uphill battle for the couple. The spouses of alcoholics are usually so relieved when treatment is successful that they often think their marital troubles are over. It's true, addiction makes it impossible to resolve marital conflicts. But sobriety itself doesn't solve them -- it simply makes them solvable. Once addiction is overcome, a couple is faced with the legions of other Love Busters that were ignored in the shadow of addiction or were created by addiction.
Here is another link you might find intresting, about how the rest of the brain shuts down when heavly addicted to drugs. The site has a lot of info on brain activity/damage self inflicted and accidental. The section I linked has to do with drug abuse, it is no wonder that addicts have lost the ability to make good decisions.
The cerebal cortex located at the front of the brain, is the worse affected, and where people make thier logical decsions based on fact and enviromental factors. This area is not nessesary to the addict, because they are feeding thier pleasure center located in the center of thier brain,(and the primary place we all feed), with the drug.
Thought, rational, working through problems, fight or flight instints and the reward chemicals get processed through the mind, which gets influenced through experience, thought and behavior habits, implemation and results, and feeds the pleasure/ dopamine center of everyone. Without the full use of all our faculties, how can we function as a person, and be rewarded inwardly for it?
Reminds me of Morpheous in "The Matrix"..."The body cannot survive without the mind" It doesn't without help. The problem is abuse and that is where many use drugs to cope, and become dependant.
That is why I see even developmentally damaged or retarded people act more like adults than the supposeedly "smart" people, and realized there is really no excuse just the ones we make for selfishness. Even a fool like me can act right, learn , and be happy. Its a matter of choices.
So barring substance abuse, what is feeding the addicted WS pleasure center? The absence of the painful truth that thier thinking has gotten so bad that they would rather run that stay and fight. They wont change or examine the possibility. what they think is spot on and they mold thier minds around it.
The thought patterns and justifications are easily read by people who are not fooled. The fantasies that they lived in as a child are still alive and active somewhere in thier minds, and if those fantasies included honest and open communication and accoutabilty, they would not be having an affair, they would be seeking counsel, or a divorce.
But its hard to imagine that they would have picked someone who was able to meet those needs, and then divorce them later, if thier wasn't some manipulation going on, whether in thier mind newly, or allways there in some way.
Some people just refuse to grow up, I don't mean they don't want to, heck who does?, I mean they refuse to, thats the difference.
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
New rant: Waywards stuck in the mud and mire of wayward thinking.
You know, the waywards who refuse to budge? They complain loudly of how muddy they are, how unfair it is that they have to deal with the mud. They even start slinging their mud by blaming others (it�s so much easier that way). Sometimes they blame God or even the man on the street. Their backs get raised when someone dares to suggest to them how to get out of the mud.
New rant: Waywards stuck in the mud and mire of wayward thinking.
You know, the waywards who refuse to budge? They complain loudly of how muddy they are, how unfair it is that they have to deal with the mud. They even start slinging their mud by blaming others (it�s so much easier that way). Sometimes they blame God or even the man on the street. Their backs get raised when someone dares to suggest to them how to get out of the mud.
The truth? Some people prefer the mud.
Rant over.
Lol, Like the little bird?
A little bird was in the nest with its two siblings. Mother went to get some food, and told them to wait for her The little bird was impatient and wanted to flutter down to the ground. The siblings said, "Please don't, your safe up here, Mother wants us to wait!" The Little bird could not stand to wait, and wanted freedom from these chains So it fluttered to the ground, only to find itself cold. The bird started complaining loudly that it was cold A cow walked over and took a dump on it, covering it with a warm cowpie, and walked away, without a word. Now the bird complained again it was covered with poop, even though it was warm. Eventually a fox came becuase of its cries for help, and listening to the birds complaints, asked if it wanted help. The bird said yes thinking the fox understood, and was such a caring creature. The fox picked the bird out of the poop, brought him to a stream, dunked him until he was clean, and them ate him.
Moral of the story--Not everyone who takes a dump on you is out to hurt you, and not everybody who listens to your problems and sympahzizes is trying to help you.
Yeah PM, some people just like to sit in the poop and whine
One of the really bad (and stupid and infantile and high-school-mean-girl-queen-bee) about growing up in AL is this absolute fanatical INSISTENCE that some Alabamians have that you decide and write in blood whether you are for AL or Auburn....really??? It's....football. Football. It lasts a few months a year, and yes it's fun and tradition and all that crap......but it's a little brown pigskin and a lot of popcorn and beer.
Family, Husband, Faith....in the Word God acutally inspired....yeah, THERE's a legitimate loyalty issue.
Roll Tide vs. War Eagle? Might we grow up and get our shoulder pads out of our arses?
One of the really bad (and stupid and infantile and high-school-mean-girl-queen-bee) about growing up in AL is this absolute fanatical INSISTENCE that some Alabamians have that you decide and write in blood whether you are for AL or Auburn....really??? It's....football. Football. It lasts a few months a year, and yes it's fun and tradition and all that crap......but it's a little brown pigskin and a lot of popcorn and beer.
Family, Husband, Faith....in the Word God acutally inspired....yeah, THERE's a legitimate loyalty issue.
Roll Tide vs. War Eagle? Might we grow up and get our shoulder pads out of our arses?
Whew.....that felt good
I grew up in small town Mississippi. Change the names to Ole Miss and Mis'sippi State and it was exactly the same.
I knew people who had ROOMS in their homes decorated to honor their chosen team. Aaaarrrrgh!
New rant coming tomorrow. Watch this space. Bless their hearts! I had it all typed up, hit the wrong button on my IPod and poof, it was gone. Will try again when I'm not trying to type on Ambien.
New rant coming tomorrow. Watch this space. Bless their hearts! I had it all typed up, hit the wrong button on my IPod and poof, it was gone. Will try again when I'm not trying to type on Ambien.
Oh I hate it when that happens
You get it all fresh in your head then type it out and till you feel like you've got it in the right heat of the moment....like you wouldn't know how to express it better like that again..and poof , you look away and the cat jumps on your keyboard or you hit submit and don't save it first to the clipboard and its lost in the process..
Its so disappointing, and so frustrating you don't have the attitude to re-type it all. Heck I forget what I even said I get so mad, and now I am mad at myself.
I key-peck and go slow when I type. I barely made 30 WPM when I was trying to qualify years ago. I probably do 15 WPM top speed now.
You can imagine with the lengths of my posts PM...
I really wanna hear what you gotta say PM, so please God do something to get PM really fired up tommorow K? Unless it would be better for her that the situation is resolved. But I have a feeling it will be good solid wise observation if it comes from PM
Just want to clarify because it came up in the posts somewhere.
Once you realize the crap that hurts your marrige, you know the thinking and ideas and behavior, and realize thats the enemy, then you give it the old "heave ho".
And in TBs case she told the enemy "to bite me"
I think all good marriges and people have this quality of humility.
It seems like when some people come to MB as a wayward, they expect that they will get support for their "feelings" and just how bad their marriage was to cause them to cheat. When they don't hear what they want to hear they become irate and refuse to listen to the advice that they are given to STOP their behavior, make amends and place extraordinary precautions in their marriage. They would rather blame their spouse, God, their children, or even the lamp post for their adultery. Heaven forbid that they stop their selfish entitlement for even a minute and gaze into the mirror at how ugly they've become. Sin does that... turns a beautiful person into an ugly soul that can't be hidden, even under the best makeup.
Then after they slither off (or sometimes are asked to leave when they won't shut up with their stupidity) they go looking for other places that will support their wayward ways. But then they start the lying and the gossiping about how badly they were treated at MB. It becomes a mission (or obsession) with them because no one at MB would get down in the mud with them. Nope, it ain't gonna happen. They rant and rage and lie and gossip trying to tear down MB because they KNOW in their KNOWER that they heard the truth.
I say fine, you choose to continue to destroy your marriage, go forth. MB will be fine, is fine without you. In fact, I've noticed that since around the fall of last year, MB has become a much better place. The advice is now more streamlined and geared towards MB (proven) methods. I've watched our membership increase daily with newbies coming EVERY DAY for help and (gasp!) actually getting great advice. There have been more breakthroughs lately when people follow the MB plans and don't cherry-pick bits and pieces of it. Great job my fellow MBers!!
..I say fine, you choose to continue to destroy your marriage, go forth. MB will be fine, is fine without you. In fact, I've noticed that since around the fall of last year, MB has become a much better place. The advice is now more streamlined and geared towards MB (proven) methods. I've watched our membership increase daily with newbies coming EVERY DAY for help and (gasp!) actually getting great advice. There have been more breakthroughs lately when people follow the MB plans and don't cherry-pick bits and pieces of it. Great job my fellow MBers!!
Yeah PM I hear ya, and it reminds me of that scripture that asks us again where were we when God set the foundation. Does He need our counsel? But yet people find ourselves in situations critsizing the way things work and others try to help them out of the hole they dug, only to see them stay in the hole insisting the hole dissapear.
This place is great but only to those who can recognize help when they see it or will accept it. Such as it will allways be I am afraid. We hide in the darkness.
And this is a general rant (driven by anger at someone having all of the tools available to avoid the many mistakes that WILL lead them into infidelity misery and NOT USING THOSE TOOLS):
A struggling ex addict who fell back into addiction after his wife passed away came to my house today and asked if I wanted to split rent with him on a new place, (I am moving outta here soon because my boys have thier own places now)..
Long detailed story of how bad he got I won't bore you with but he is at least now functional and working for his son is his business.
Well this is the guy who took in the wayward teen girl that became a crackhead years ago. The same girl I didn't trust or want my wife to hang around with because of the same addiction issues W had with Alcohol. Years ago when WW was clean and wanted to get back together.
The same girl that introduced my wife to heroin years later..
I suppose he would rather have me forget that also and not blame him, but he was not much better, just full of different crapola, and was a scam artist, also taken in by scam artists, and using Gods grace to continue on in life with the same weak heart of desparate acts and justifying his lack of accountability and integrity.
But here he is, after losing his wife one year before my wife went home, and then falling apart and back into drugs pretty heavy again, now two years later, getting married to another drug addicted girl that squatted with him at his house that got forclosed on.
His first wife was a heroin addict and got clean when they met, and he was a coke=head and alcoholic when they met also. His first W accualy got clean and changed her life with God. He changed too, but it was all because of her, not because of God, she became God to him. I guess it was easier to fool her than to fool God so...
Anyway he told me he was gonna get married again and that he could not be alone and when he left he told me he was going home and "grabbing a beer" on the way.
He also lied to me and said, "I gotta find a place because I sold my house", yeah except I know it was forclosed on years ago and he was able to squat there after being kicked out numerous times by the bank, hooking up the electric illegally more than once, letting it become a crack-house, and even getting jumped by the people who lived there. Even his Son who he works for now called me once and told me how bad he had become and how he dissapeared for days once he got money.
So his answer is to get married again? Some people never learn. The only reason I even talked to him was because my wife was friends with his, and his wife was instrumental in helping my wife recover from drinking after I left the first time.
Can't be alone? Wake up call, when it comes down to integrity and personal accoutability, we are all alone. I wish him well and told him I would look for him but would rather live alone. I am done trying to help people who really don't want help and have put my life and my families in peril in the past. I feel for him but let God handle it, he is much stronger, forgiving, and able than I to be there for him. My grace has a limit and my understanding and mercy has run out in that area.
He hasn't "got it" in the past and I have no faith he will "get it" now and he is still lieing. I wish him well and put him in Gods hands,,
C, you know, of course, that the only reason he wanted you to move in with him was so that YOU could pay ALL the rent and so that he could steal your money and pawn your belongings. My ex-SiL was so bad that we forbade him from coming over because things would disappear. It's pretty bad when you have to follow someone in the family to and from the bathroom (which we kept stripped of anything of value) just so he won't steal something on the way!
And this is a general rant (driven by anger at someone having all of the tools available to avoid the many mistakes that WILL lead them into infidelity misery and NOT USING THOSE TOOLS):
Sticking one's head into the ground -->
It's like whack-a-mole on both fronts. Ugh.
Ha...Mrs_V, I know the wayward you are referring to.
Yep...
I think she will defog one of these days, long after her H has moved on. She'll regret it. But she doesn't want to hear that.
C, you know, of course, that the only reason he wanted you to move in with him was so that YOU could pay ALL the rent and so that he could steal your money and pawn your belongings. ..
Lol Ah yes LC, I spotted the bullchit in this guy a long time ago, how they were users and really had problems, and every time they would let my late W down, I would sat "OK, so we know what they are about now, so we wish them well and deal with them little or none at all" W would be hurt and upset by them, but would not let it go, and sometime in the future history would be re-written and all would be forgiven again..."Oh it was what God would have wanted", but the same thing would happen again..So I say it was NOT what God would have wanted if people didn't learn from the first time. I just operated above the slime and waited till they could see...
My W just kept getting sucked back in, was upset when she couldn't help the woman with her struggle to find recognition in the "Inner circle" of the church that she thought my W was in, and I feel it hurt my wife because of the focus on that also. "The blind leading the blind". The priorities were all messed up. It helped keep my wife in that desire to "save" people who did not want to change and were so insecure, looking for nirvana from other peoples attention and approbation. It was truly as the scripture implys IMO.
I can't find the scripture, but it talks about when people latch onto other people, trying to fit in, and count that as their salvation, but do not seek Christ individually. They become bondservents of the people then, and miss the freedom gotten from full submission to Christ. Then they were as strong as the person they clung too, so they missed the point. That connection to people over personal accountability to God can be hard to negotiate when you worship human beings.
The real reason he wants me to move in with him is he wants my credibilty. His GF he is gonna marry,(not sure if she was in on rolling him a couple years ago or not, yup, its THAT bad), if she is the girl I met before in his familys home that was turned into a crackhouse after his W died, would probably steal from me, but the Guy would just lie to me like he allways did in the past. I would not trust them around anything of value, and I am of to much value myself to put myself in that prediciment either.
..I say fine, you choose to continue to destroy your marriage, go forth. MB will be fine, is fine without you. In fact, I've noticed that since around the fall of last year, MB has become a much better place. The advice is now more streamlined and geared towards MB (proven) methods. I've watched our membership increase daily with newbies coming EVERY DAY for help and (gasp!) actually getting great advice. There have been more breakthroughs lately when people follow the MB plans and don't cherry-pick bits and pieces of it. Great job my fellow MBers!!
I think there are many good approaches and respect is due for the heart and intention. I think the 12 step program follows an excellent modus: what is shared here, stays here. It works for many different boards. I think it's disingenuous to leave this board and gossip over there. However, it's equally bad to go "there" and read, then gossip about it here. There is broken trust both ways when that happens.
This board is a good place, with structure and purpose. Bashing another board doesn't serve either place, wherever its done.
I think there are many good approaches and respect is due for the heart and intention. I think the 12 step program follows an excellent modus: what is shared here, stays here. It works for many different boards. I think it's disingenuous to leave this board and gossip over there. However, it's equally bad to go "there" and read, then gossip about it here. There is broken trust both ways when that happens.
Interesting choice of words, broken "trust" and "disingenuous". Disingenuous means "lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : calculating" and trust means "assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something". (ref. Merriam-Webster)
I agree there are some disingenuous and untrustworthy people out there. I'd say that's mostly what my rant was about.
The rest of your post about bashing boards is a straw man. That was clearly not my intention and not once did I mention any names or any other boards. My rant is about people, particularly waywards, who come here and ask for help, and then run away mad that they won't be coddled or have their waywardness "validated" (using that word is for a different rant).
But since you brought it up, what people post on message boards is not private and there should be no expectation of privacy, unless it is a by-invitation-only board hidden from the general public. That's why people post anonymously.
I disagree further that there is an expectation of "trust" by board or boardee not to reveal what is posted publicly. Nice try. What is posted publicly is open for anyone who wants to read it. Heck, these days a person doesn't even have to go to a specific board, they can just use Google.
When someone lies and distort the words of posters here at MB (some of who are my very good friends IRL), what they post ANYWHERE publicly is fair game. When they do so about the printed and published works of Dr. H, then they may be crossing over into the bounds of slander and libel. Regardless, whether it's about my fellow MB members or Dr. H, in both cases, I will defend the truth. Every time. Any place.
PS - I miss some really good folks who don't post here very much and MB loses when someone who has lived it, embraced it and recovered - leaves.
I miss them. I acknowledge the impact they have had on my life.
There are people I miss as well who have lived "it", embraced "it" and "recovered". But I understand it and wish them well. It may or may not be a loss to MB, depends on the person. Sometimes people just choose to move on for many different reasons. Sometimes it's too triggering to stay, sometimes they feel they have nothing left to offer, and sometimes they become unhappy with forward progress. It's life. It happens.
One of the really bad (and stupid and infantile and high-school-mean-girl-queen-bee) about growing up in AL is this absolute fanatical INSISTENCE that some Alabamians have that you decide and write in blood whether you are for AL or Auburn....really??? It's....football. Football. It lasts a few months a year, and yes it's fun and tradition and all that crap......but it's a little brown pigskin and a lot of popcorn and beer.
Family, Husband, Faith....in the Word God acutally inspired....yeah, THERE's a legitimate loyalty issue.
Roll Tide vs. War Eagle? Might we grow up and get our shoulder pads out of our arses?
Whew.....that felt good
I grew up in small town Mississippi. Change the names to Ole Miss and Mis'sippi State and it was exactly the same.
I knew people who had ROOMS in their homes decorated to honor their chosen team. Aaaarrrrgh!
Huskies and Cougars here.
DD13 asked me which one I was, and I told her; I'm a Husky in spirit, but my degree will make me a Cougar, so essentially... I don't care.
PS - I miss some really good folks who don't post here very much and MB loses when someone who has lived it, embraced it and recovered - leaves.
I miss them. I acknowledge the impact they have had on my life.
I think of it like this, Kayla - there are angels that will pass through a person's life every day. Some stay for awhile, others are temporary and are there for only a set time. Then their work is done and they go on. I am grateful to have felt their presence for as long as I did.
I get the impression that Meggy is not talking about the posters you and I are thinking about.
Thank you MB, you said that much better than I did. I actually feel let down when good people leave but everyone has lives outside of this board and there are factors that we may never know about why they go. There is no exit interview. I miss them.
I'm not a mind reader so I can't say who Kayla is thinking about and if I started naming the good ones that I miss I would surely miss some. My dad was a pastor and from time to time he would mention someone's name from the pulpit, whether missing them or welcoming them, he would invariably forget someone and feelings would be hurt. I learned that lesson long ago. Lol!! So let me just say there are good people that i truly miss. The ones subject to my rant, not at all. I just hope that they wake up someday because no matter where they go, they're still there.
Foggy waywards that start off by saying "they know how much pain the BS is in, but THEY are in pain too. Don't pick on me.... I am such a victim here."
Foggy waywards that start off by saying "they know how much pain the BS is in, but THEY are in pain too. Don't pick on me.... I am such a victim here."
Why is it, I wonder, that a hurting poster will come here asking for help, and when they get the help they asked for, they refuse it?
When the handwriting on the wall is clearly spelled out to them, they insist that it is the wrong language in their case. That it can't possibly be true in their situation.
Then they bring out the roadblocks. "I can't check his computer/phone/whereabouts." Or "He is always where he says he's going to be." Or "I trust him/his friends/his co-workers." Or "I can't hire a PI." Or "I can't afford a GPS/VAR/keylogger." It's every excuse in the book, short of "My spouse is in the witness protection program and I have no contact with him."
They expend valuable time and energy explaining why they won't follow the advice they're given. And then they finally admit that they aren't comfortable snooping to find out the truth about their OWN LIFE. They are willing to blindly entrust everything they have on the very person who drove them to come to this site in the first place!
Why not follow the advice in order to hopefully prove us wrong?? I would LOVE to be wrong in this case!
And their words are the same: "My situation is different. My H/W is different. You don't know me/my H/the co-worker/best friend." Translation: "Tell me what I want to hear - not what I need to hear."
And that is why, 80% of the time, I let you vets tend to the newbies. It's like reading a story about the Hindenburg over and over--you KNOW what's going to happen, they don't, yet they insist it's not going to happen.
I'm really new at trying to help others here. Sometimes I just want to reach through the monitor, grab them by the collar and yell. The vets here especially, know where and when the train wreck will happen, but the BS is too afraid to pull the switch.
How do the vets keep helping the BS's and Waywards year after year, knowing most will not listen?
Because you never know who will end up being a success story, and you never know who might be lurking that DOES get it.
Not a vet but ITA. Also, the BS has a fog of their own when they first get here. I had it. Just take a look at my thread and see what I said and did, at first. It was Pep that helped me see clearly. I remember that I was once like them and I see how far I have come. Every journey is a bunch of steps. Sometimes, this is a step that needs to be taken.
And that is why, 80% of the time, I let you vets tend to the newbies. It's like reading a story about the Hindenburg over and over--you KNOW what's going to happen, they don't, yet they insist it's not going to happen.
Karma, I have wanted so many times to mention to you how much I admire your input on this site. I really do. Thank you for your so many excellent, concise and intelligent posts.
I'm really new at trying to help others here. Sometimes I just want to reach through the monitor, grab them by the collar and yell. The vets here especially, know where and when the train wreck will happen, but the BS is too afraid to pull the switch.
How do the vets keep helping the BS's and Waywards year after year, knowing most will not listen?
Cypress
I won't mention the posters, but I will say that there are certain posters who have come here in total desperation, with their spouse GONE to the OP. The betrayed has used MB to assault the affair, and the wayward comes back home to rebuild their marriage. Hurray for them!!! If my experience in recovering from infidelity can help anyone, I am so there. I think it has. I hope so.
But I still get so frustrated with posters who refuse to acknowledge the clear and present danger to their marriage.
Yes, I did Nanowrimo last year. Still trying to edit it down while trying to write a sequel...it's hard work and definitely a rollercoaster to try and keep at it.
The "why" is too vague. I surrender that task to people with a higher pay grade.
Here is what I have learned. I do not put more effort into someone's situation than they do.
Yeah that's the lesson I needed to learn a long time ago Pep
Seems I suffered the cosequences of taking that position also It's easy to be somebodys friend when it's all nice and rosy in the hot tub together It's a different thing to contradict them in conflict
All communication is for our benefit" (I think that's a scripture)
I think of a foreman on the job who barks out orders at the workers
The ones who get offended cuz he hurt Thier feelings don't last long and are not very effective either. If they take the time when they don't have it to stop and take things into consideration like...how the local team lost last night or....it's been hot this week or...well you name it. The issue that needs addressing gets lost in the sauce and they all could lose Thier jobs
It's the same here. The vets say direct instructions and the novices take them apart and water down Thier effect because well, Thier different don't cha know
It is very hard to deal with people who cannot understand the chemical changes in a wayward mind, and how this effects the affair. I wish society as a whole would really put two and two together, that way when it happens more people would be able to treat the affair like an addiction and proceed with dealing with it like a drunk driver.
I am so frustrated with people acting as if the BS is crazy or a pain in the butt because they are exposing to save their marriage. People treat the BS like crap because they don't role over and play dead on Dday. Come on BS get over it; you lost and POSOP won. Your marriage is over and it is all your fault. Society treats love as a feeling, and that feeling shouldn't be challenged because after all it is love. Bull crap--love is committing oneself to another through thick and thin, the good, the bad, the ugly, in sickness, in health until death do us part!!!
It just goes to show how many people today really do not value family and. commitment. They act like a family is disposable underware and can be thrown out, changed, or crapped on with no consequences. I pray for the wisdom to raise my babies to know the difference.
It's the whole "drive thru" instant gratification society we live in today. Live for the moment! All that crap.
We're forced fed that divorces just "happen" like it's natural or something. IT IS NOT. It is A SIN. IT IS EVIL.
IITL, you're right about the chemical makeup of a wayward mind. Here's the thing. It only lasts that way less than 2 years before a change occurs. That's why imho Dr. Harley says emas last an average 2 years.
Did for my xwh. Literally to that point. But we were divorced and he'd instantly remarried the ow and had a baby with her. Suddenly he was like "whoa. what just happened to me?"
He tried to actually leave her then and attempted to ask me out on a date and said he "made a mistake". Um no. I made a mistake marrying a guy with such p*ss poor boundaries!
Literally they are like that. Like they've been rip van winkle the whole time after they finally come back to reality and SEE what had been going on during their mental absence.
OK, not really a rant, but just wondering. Do you think some people come to MB to debate? Do you think the people on MB who distract with arguments on other's posts and threads do this same sort of thing in their marriage? If so, do you think their spouse would find it extremely annoying? And if their spouse were to complain that it was an annoying habit, do you think the person would debate that complaint?
OK, the rant part. I don't even know these people and find it annoying.
This is not a rant, but an observation of something mildly inconvenient to me.
I'm apparently the only person in history who's ever used the "ubbthreads-dark" theme available from the control at the bottom of the forum.
I like it. A lot. It makes my screen darker. Easier on the eyes, easier to read. It also makes it easy when Prisca and I use each other's computers to see who we are logged in as.
But it obliterates more than half of the lovely emoticons here. I see text: "Nooo" and "flirt" and "twoxfour" and "dramaqueen".
Plus, some people who make good posts tend to write in dark blue text, which is nearly unreadable against the black.
I guess everybody else who has tried the dark theme has gone back to the regular because of these problems, but I'm stubborn, and I like the theme and have stuck with it over a year now despite all this.
I've used the dark screen before, Markos! I can't help you with the emoticons, but on the blue or other hard-to-read text colors deal, I found that highlighting the text worked wonders!
I've used the dark screen before, Markos! I can't help you with the emoticons, but on the blue or other hard-to-read text colors deal, I found that highlighting the text worked wonders!
No, but I wear only two colors of pants, khaki or blue. My shirts match either color. Only solids, other than one Hawaiian shirt. I try to only get black or white socks.
I just got this mad rush of anger over me and no one to take it out on. I am going to rant.
My f'ing WH is such a piece of crap. The SOB not only cut off my four kids financially, but also threw our entire 15 years in the sewer. The f'ing scumbag. I am losing my love for him in Plan B. Why is my LB draining. I don't think I want him anymore. I am getting almost finished. I am really really mad at him.
I just want to kick his butt from DC to San Diego. What an f'ing low life. I haven't been this pizzed in months. The f'ing piece of crap.
I wish nothing but awful karma on the SOB at this moment.
10 minutes later ... Okay now I am composed.
I hope he breaks into 1000 pieces and GOD can finally get him and bring him home a repentant, remorseful, and dedicated man.
GOD be with me. Please let me make it. QueeniesAdvernture is such a great thread to read. Dear GOD please help me save my marriage and my family.
Well its not a rant, but tough I just want to thank you for being real enough and coming here to vent about the absolute BS you are putting up with.
If there is any rant from me, its that there are not more people able to stick like you for the sake of the family ,children, and still know that there is somewhere to vent the real feelings that come from this crap.
Well there IS a difference of course, and I assume the servicemen would want the distinction. Apologys to any I might have offended. There is a style they call those hats, and I was babysitting my DGD, and on my IPhone, and my son came with his dog....and all I could think of was marines, so I posted in haste.. , me.
But I thought it was pretty good for just seeing the outline on the Iphone. Thanks for straighting me out though, I respect Robert Duvall, and he would probably want to kick my ar$$E if I misrepresented a serviceman that he played in one of his roles also. No excuses..
Wished I went in the service when I had a chance, just feels like my life would have been worth more directly serving my country, in physical conflict, like a man, warrior/poet, than how I decided to handle it. 1. Support the troops 2. Live by a strong moral code. 3. Protect the innocent, my family, friends, and try to turn around the post vietnam rep being a soldier had gotten, by standing up for men who are willing to fight for what is right.
Oh well maybe God will let me go out quick in a fiery burning car wreck while crashing into some drug dealer and his crew of punks. Well now..Napalm is like a gel made from gasoline right? Maybe I will get to sorta know what its like to smell it in the morning..
Since I have been a little kid war flicks have had a hypnotic affect on me, and I just about allways cry when I watch them. I often get the compliment of being mistaken for military IRL. I worked as a contractor for a guy in his home that worked at the pentagon who was an aide to the undersecratary to the navy, and he told me I would have done well also in the service.
Regrets are a waste though, maybe I can work for an ordinace plant again but this time as an engineer, security, training. IDK but its something I can get behind thats for sure.
Literally they are like that. Like they've been rip van winkle the whole time after they finally come back to reality and SEE what had been going on during their mental absence.
Oy, geez...I see this thread is being t/j'd into guy junk, and we can't have that.
There. Evened it out a little.
Back to the rants...
OK, Rant is that rumor has it Barbie was modeled after a German Hooker. I say rumor, but I can believe it even though I never researched the facts.
So what was Ken modeled after, G.I. Joe? I say that its more sexist discrimination against guys that don't fit the model of Ken anymore,(or ever), and don't get to spend hard earned money on plastic surgery to, "Feel good about themselves"...
Why can't men just be able to judge thier value in relationships just by how they look, instead of who they are inside?
When I made the comment to now late WW that I had lost some of my respect for Demi Moore because she was dating her boy toy Ashton Kusher, she was like, "good for her". Now Demi fought sickness as a child and made some pretty good flicks I thought, but that just was too obviuos where her mind was really. I thought we were all going to mature and grow older not when we could do it regress into picking a guy based on his looks and sex drive.
"Good for her" right, confirms where WW was heading all along, too bad I didn't make enough money that she could have gotten the plastic surgery she wanted to lift her boobs sooner, or bought her that house, or allowed her that "Freedom", she got apparently from the drugs she bought with the grocery money I gave her every week.
Oh I get it of course, the only reason she lived as long as she did was because she never got enough freedom to do exacly what she wanted whe she felt like it. as soon as I felt like we were getting somewhere she would do something that would make me stop and think with caution. 20 years of up and down, forgiving and restoring, waiting for a real responsible change of mindset, yup, there were changes, but mostly lipservice as the mentalness seems to go underground, and then slowly come back up. There is an example of how problems in a marriage should be dealt with immediatly and how NOBODY escapes the damage from staying in a Plan to long. (Call it what you will, Plan A,B,Doormat,Superhero)
I am asking God for a sense of humor, because that is the only thing left that has any value personally to me. I like people, want a sense of purpose, and allways wanted to be in love and stay in love appreciating my wife in all her possible frailties and strengths, but I think its over for me, and I just want to be able to laugh about it. Yet the fool that I am cannot laugh about someones death, and I will allways have a part of me that feels responsible, even though nobody blames me, and church people don't, my therapist says it wasn't my fault, and for most of my relationship the addiction denial emotional instability crap kept coming up and making itself my most important issue we had to solve. I thought life was for living about more than that.
I was reading the news this morning. Not sure why this was in the news, but it caught my eye.
Hugh Hefner has moved on to his "New Gal".
As I clicked on the picture I couldn't help but realize he looks like such a sad man. Then I really began the digest exactly who that man is and what he has done for infidelity.
I cannot imagine how one goes through life without true intimate love. The more I heal from this infidelity nightmare the more I realize I missed out on so much intimacy in my marriage.
I went along with marriage mostly out of committment, fear, and well committment.
I guess what angers me the most is people's unwillingness to change. It is so hard to look at my marriage today and realize the only reason he is divorcing me is because he doesn't want to deal with him.
Case after case, year after year all these stories and all these people mirror each other. The vets tell the same advice, and infidelity fits an almost perfect pattern.
As much as I want to sit here and sulk, I can't, so I sit here and learn this thing called consistency and patience in Plan B. Work on me and move on with my life. I see the patience in the vets time after time after time, which says to me they must also have that in their marriages.
When you understand the behavior of the vets, you understand how a marriage can be built on great principles, which I believe Dr. H derived as a gift given to him by GOD. I will work to also have that same patience in my life. Thank you Vets for showing us newbies how to have consistency and patience.
My shattered family whose only option is to rise out of the ashes.
I fully get why GOD in every chapter of the bible discusses why you should NOT commit adultery. Only if those F'ing wayturds would comprehend that.
Don't you wonder if Hugh Hefner is really one of those guys who has the best cars in the world, but really can't appreciate them? He was a bit of a rebel against racial prejudice, but hey we all know the REAL reason he got so popular, men had money and wanted women and he was able to cash in on that market The stuff about how he respected women "beyond and for more" than Thier bodies, well, lol, so do most mature men. Smokescreen and hide your intentions right out on front. If that was his intentions, then he needed to work harder as a journalist
So he has women, grades them on thier looks, and throws in something about how they have character because they are taking care of Thier baby, and going to college Yeah so aren't most of the strippers you talk to, they are just poor victims and a girl has to eat
So his criteria for a woman is her measurements, physical health, but not emotional depth. If it were not so he would not use those women like a slave trader selling them at an auction. Health is great, but beauty is deeper than a pretty face and Hef has taken the basest human instincts and tried to make it seem respectable and ahem, mature as men should judge by looks alone
In my life I have appreciated many different women, and some of them were not of the what can averagely considered beautiful type. Looks really don't. go very far or last very long for me, and beauty is skin deep, because an ugly heart goes to the bone
My late wife was an exotically beautiful women, and it was a curse to her. She had to work at being appreciated for something else than her looks and still, guys hit on her and were like putty in her hands. She devoted her life to God early on at 18 and was wonderful with children, but when she got insecure, she could allways put on the charm, and pull men in like flys, as they would give her attention, and agree with everything she said. Then she would hate herself as she degraded herself and the cycle would continue
Yeah she would have made Hefs criteria list, and probably lived well as a model or actress, but her heart was really in making a home for children and wanted to have an farm where we could bring in abused and neglected children, because she had grown up neglected, and watched her Mom turn from a beautiful woman to a raging wacked out alcoholic. It's to bad even the men who stated that they were in the Christian faith, could not keep Thier heads from dreaming of more than an appreciation of who she was. I can tell you she was totally a women and had a tender heart and it was a difficult task for anyone including me not to want more than friendship.
So how did Hef make the world a better place for beautiful women? He didn't because he promoted the flesh, sold it and counted on the basest natural drive man has, visual sensitivity and stimulation, to draw in "readers", and make a buck. I don't care if he becomes a monk and donates all his wealth to charity, he made a living selling flesh, and has added to the age old problem of men seeing beauty as simply physical, and attempts to dignify it
Hef did have some great cars/women but he did not know what was under the hood hence how could he even know what he had? He is like that kid who shows off all his cool stuff but does not get any satisfaction from it really. Are we surprised it's all appearance?
I wouldn't knock Hugh... up until the point that he had his first "marriage."
It was then that he truly became a hypocrite, because he never intended to keep the vows he spoke, and also broke his vow to "never get married."
Guys who buy Playboy aren't "victims of the establishment." The women who surround him aren't "victims" either.
It isn't a Playboy mansion filled with 4-year-olds. And even well-raised 19-year-olds have some sense, even if they have no sense of long-standing consequences.
Hugh didn't poison the world, because the lemmings ate willingly.
You get it about patience and how important it is in maturity. I think you nailed Dr H got that gift from God and I am sure he was listening to him also in humility to receive it.
But there ya go, waywards have thier chemistry so mixed up, they are high on themselves. They believe they can do no wrong and God must be blessing them if they feel so good. Not much humility there
You can trust that God will bless you and keep you, no matter what happens.
" If you being Evil give your children good gifts, how much more shall your Father in heaven give whom is not corrupted?"(not sure that is verbatim) " If you ask him for bread shall He give you a stone?"
You are committed to love, and that requires that you receive it from above, because we just don't have it in us unconditionally
Thank God for your childrens sake you are so committed, thank you for being real.
It's funny all the Wayturds think they are so different and special, but there actions and consequences they pay are almost allways the same. It's to bad they don't come back to earth with us lowly humans and embrace thier frailty, Maybe they would get some real strenth knowing thier weak like the rest of us do, and depending on instruction from outside Thier world they live in
Hang in Thier tough it's gonna get better God promises and he cannot lie
I will have to disagree with you HHH. If we are supposed to be careful of what hear and see, I think journalists,and I use that term lightly, should be held accountable for what they publish,again lightly.
But I a country with free speech we will get these people, and parents are responsible to educate children of deeper values, but are they?
I remember the first playboy mag I saw, and how when I saw the centerfold, how the first thought I had was"I wonder what kind of books she reads?"
Ever since then it has been my first thought when meeting a beautiful woman. The rush in my pulse was all about her character
Ok haha. But I have dated a lot of pretty women, and with rare exception have I not found them to feel somwhat entitled. What do we blame that on or is that what women are supposed to be valued on?
Yes HHH men will allways be men,and visually stimulated, but guys like Hef encourage us to think with the wrong head. Just can't respect that
Or Pep, his best one from that movie.."I'm not a smart man Jenny, but I know what love is"
Funny how common RL compared to that Flick, in the wayward mindset anyways, the ones convinced that they were better than the simple people who pulled the weight for them in life.
Then there is the persons who thinks they can re-write history and make it work as they cut thier spouses throats to live another chapter of thier fantasy lifes.
To all of those caught in a relationship with such as these, my only advice is, "RUN, FORREST, RUNNNNNN"
To all of those caught in a relationship with such as these, my only advice is, "RUN, FORREST, RUNNNNNN"
Eventually, Jenny returned to marry Forest. But, she returned on her own time line.
Interestingly enough, this movie used to be one of my bigger triggers. It came out in 1994, in the middle of my H's EA/PA. At that time, I was completely without suspicion. H (WH) and I went to see Forest Gump together. When Forest described his relationship with Jenny as: "Me and Jenny goes together like peas and carrots. ." .... H (WH) let out an audible sigh in appreciation of the writing. I took his hand and squeezed it ..... because I thought it reminded him of OUR relationship. The following year, I found out that my H (WH) had used that same line in a love letter written to OW. OWH read me the letter over the phone.
It's weird what happens to triggers. As sharp and as hurtful as they initially are, they do fade in significance, and much later are nothing more than evidence of the former WS's stupidity.
Forrest Gump remains one of my all time favorite movies. Because of the acting, the editing, the soundtrack, and especially because of the writing. It is pain free, despite the "peas/carrots" line.
Thanks for writing this post. I am so glad to hear what you wrote about triggers. "Forest Gump" was one of my favorite movies (as was Christmas Story). Our family always quoted lines from both these movies. During his A, my H told the OW that "until he met her, he felt like the feather in the move - floating around without direction".
Once in a while, one of us will still uses a line from the movie in conversation and they don't bother me too much. But, I have not been able to watch either movie yet. Maybe someday. I hope so. I think the more my H is meeting my needs, the spark of love is there. If there is enough feeling, I don't think the triggers will be pain free.
Often, it seemed to me as if my H's conversation and behavior with OW were attempts to re-create his and my conversations and pleasent memories. It was the same with the gifts he gave her - things that I would have liked or had given him in the past.
Waywards coddling other waywards -- patting each other on the back, encouraging each other along on their destructive paths, and leaving wounded spouses and innocent children in their wake.
Why would anyone counsel another to destroy their own life? Their marriage? Their children?
So heartbreaking ... it's almost difficult to rant about.
"Do not be deceived: Bad company corrupts good morals." 1 Corinthians 15:33
Prisca, Thats what happens with My EX WW. The person doing that is the OM who deserted and divorced his family as well. Now they can just comfort each other and if fumes me. THey have no regard for what they have done to anyone else and that is the truth.
Prica and AM - Unfortunately I can top that one - my MIL is the who cheated on her alcoholic and abusive husband, moved her AP into the marital home, then eventually ran away to another country for 20 years. She also had cosmetic surgery and left behind a rather large family behind. It was all about her. Guess what, she's an old lady now. She lives by herself and lives for the family drama. She is also my WW's biggest supporter - I think she's trying to re-write her 'legacy' and probably wishes that someone would have supported her in the way she's supporting WW. What a mess.
Your MIL is not so different from mine. Nearly 2 years ago, my MIL had a minor stroke. My H went to stay with her for a couple of weeks. He was to install hand rails, ramps, etc. While there, he used MIL's phone and computer to contact OW (after nearly 16 months of NC). Not only did MIL know and support H's contact of OW, she advised him to leave me for her to "be happy". The last conversation I had with her was 18 months ago, when I found out about her involvement and confronted her. My H has 3-4 phone conversations with her a year. He no longer respects her or her advice.
That is a huge hit to you guys. I cannot imagine going through this without the support of my inlaws. They have been my biggest support group. I feel for both of you.
Lostman, I did not miss in-law support. On D-day, it came out that my FIL had had at least one LTA and MIL had no idea how many ONS, as FIL was an Air Force pilot who travelled extensively. So, what kind of advice could she give anyway? Our children, especially DD37 and DS23, were very supportive. Both let H know that his actions were a big disappointment to them. Both thought I ought to separate/divorce H.
Prisca, That's a very appropriate verse. H knows he is blessed to be recovering "himself" and our marriage.
Enough from me. At this point, I am not ranting on the rant thread. I hate T/Js. Wait a minute. That's a rant.
OMG people, why can't you go into PLAN B? Why do you then post, "I broke Plan B, I talked to my WS. I texted my WS." But it couldn't be helped, they provoked me. HUH? How?
Some of the "reasons" are also quite ridiculous. I mean seriously, you don't need to talk to your WS because they are picking up your child 10 minutes late. And if they won't use the IM, tough TOOTIES for them. You MAKE them, by NOT communicating any other way.
And for pity's sake, block their number or email addy. That way, if they try to send you something, you won't be tempted to answer them because you won't know.
Also, think about your Plan A, and then Plan B as a way to prove that you are going to be ready for recovery, to YOU. If you are willing to cut corners on the easier things(because Plan A and Plan B are easier), then what is going to happen when it gets really tough?
People, get into a dark Plan B, and if you make a slip, get back up and DO it right next time. And if there are holes, then PLUG em up. DO it for YOU.
Remember, the more you break Plan B, the less serious you are going to seem, and even if you do get a chance at MR, you will limp along and have a poor recovery, because your WS won't think you're serious, and you will cut corners whenever it gets too hard. Please.
..Remember, the more you break Plan B, the less serious you are going to seem, and even if you do get a chance at MR, you will limp along and have a poor recovery, because your WS won't think you're serious, and you will cut corners whenever it gets too hard. Please.
Oh wait, that would mean they had control of thier life, and the direction it went in, and need a scapegoat to blame things on, or a magical leprechaun to come in and take over everything that for Gods sake, God has given us control of.
You know Scotty, that anything worth having worth working for, and thats the only way you appreciate it anyway. But hey, "look what they have!" and "Life is not fair!" is so prevelent and not seen for how dangerous that attitude really is.
I have said it before, and will say it again, marriage is a battleground where you learn to love, after the romamce of falling in love with someone who in many ways, you thought was perfect, at least for you. In this battle, you learn how to love the unlovly, and that sometimes is even yourself, and give them what they don't deserve, just because they need it.
But then that would mean looking past thier faults, and seeing thier needs..oops, I said it again, emotional needs, isn't there something around here about that?
So many do not see the priveledge they have to love, and want the income, and they don't even see it when they have it. Waywards suck, but people are afraid to be happy, and think they are smart as they take and take, and think they are getting it all, and have no moral boundaries,and start that road out of how they deserve more than they have, because are just plain spoiled. Ussually someone is whispering in thier ear,"Don't tell anyone, but you don't have to listen to them, you are special and the rules don't apply to you, you can skirt around them, look around and see what they have" Yeah Waywards where once real people, but thier specialness has taken them away, and they are a legend in thier own mind, which they hold onto the fantasy like it was thier own special gift from God. "Oh gee, it sure feels like God to me, and Gods a feeling right?"
Waywards suck but people are stupid acting like they have it all, and so others will beleive it, and follow them into thier fantasy. After all, if others will follow, doesn't it make my fantasy real? So why would they listen to us? Why would they take the road to a better marriage than they used to have? They still do not want to give up what they had, it was so special. They see what they want to, and belive what they want to, until it comes crashing down. Sometimes they will go to the grave thinking life was not fair, waiting for miracles, when they are right in front of them every day.
There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
Why do people come to a site called Marriage Builders for relationship advicce when they are not married? It is not as if the site is called shackingup.com.
And then after they tell you that marriage is the same as shacking up ["we feel married"] they tell you marriage is "only a piece of paper." ummm, why insist your relationship is the same and then dismiss marriage in the next breath?
What is the deal with people who lie on anonymous WRITTEN forums? I understood when my then wayward H got confused about what verbal lies he had told. But wouldn't you think if someone wrote something, they would not be writing something different as soon as a couple of days later. OR they would at least re-read what they had written so they could lie consistently.
Dr. Harley talks about the different types of liars: trying to look good liars, avoid trouble liars, protective liars, and born liars. The first three are bad habits that can be changed if a person wants to change. The last type of liar rarely changes. This type of liar will continue to tell you they had ham sandwich for lunch when it really was a hamburger.
Most betrayed spouses are acutely sensitive to dishonesty.
I cannot stand my EX WW. She just feels like she can run over me with her crap when she wants and gets so upset when i dont let her lol. Now my divorce is final and i know longer try to keep the peace when she thinks shes gonna have her way. It infuriates her and brings me a little happiness. She is living in her own little world still. rant over thanks for listening lol.
I liken my EX WW's affair to an abscessed tooth. It's the source of all her pain.
Yet instead of removing the abscess, she's removed all the good healthy things around it... our family, our home, our retirement, our credit, our savings, our children's chance of growing up in an unbroken family.
And she still clings to the abscess denying anything is wrong, despite the fact that the rest of her family can clearly see it IS rotten.
Yes TE - I feel the same way about WH. He is the bobbin that is floating in the septic system. His friends and OW(the crap) keep tugging at him and are starting to pull him under. I am the filter that is trying to get him to clean water, but he refuses to cut lose the fishing line that has him forever floating in the crap.
I am not sure if it is a man thing - but Plan B is really awesome. I strongly encourage you to do that with WXW and see what happens.
What is your plan? Are you going to move on?
If not then Plan B for another year to really see if this affair dies. If it doesn't then you have become healthy enough to start dating and you will never look back.
Why is it that some posters bring up the fact that no one has commented on their thread posts, and then start attacking and saying that it's too "clicky" here? Really? Am I in the "click" or out of it? I didn't even know there was a click, so I must be out of it. And then MY NAME gets posted as a BS who has been posting for a WHILE(less than 2 years I might add) and that people still post to me. I posted something YESTERDAY, just a comment and had *2* people post something to me about it. TWO. Am I glad that those two people took the time to post something, yeppers I am. But if NO ONE had posted anything, I wouldn't have minded. There are people BLEEDING on these boards. I just update with things that are a part of my journey. It is almost like a diary that others also get to read.
I was very upset that my name was brought up like that. I AM working MB. I have been working MB. I don't post on my own thread often, only to write something to keep people up to date with things, and know that I am still doing a stellar Plan B. I feel almost like I am WRONG for posting here, and I felt attacked, by being singled out. I feel like I have advice to offer, and I help whenever I can. I don't know how or why my name would come up when talking about "clicks" on MB as I didn't even know that there were any.
If you post something, and no one responds, it is simply because the people who read it didn't know what to tell you. Maybe they were worried that they would screw it up more(I mean, there are REAL people on the other side of those words), or maybe they just aren't confident in their own thoughts. Don't take things so personally. It isn't often about YOU anyways.
Some do not stay here long, on this forum, sort of like they feel like if they ignore the problem, it will go away. They want a quick fix and when they get it, they are gone. Its OK, thats good too, if the problem is really fixed.
Just the nature of the condition people ussually come here also points to there impatience and why.
You reminded me of a joke that popped into my head today, as one of my favorite comforting sayings in life.
"I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member"---Groucho Marx
Stop complaining Scotty, your one of the vets, you aren't allowed to have problems, you meanie!
But my rant would have to be that people don't do something, anything, besides sit around and suffer. I know it feels like a snails pace, but it is something in the right direction.
I have nothing to rant about regarding this board or the people on this board! (I'm referring to the experienced veterans)
The experience on this board has been an UNBELIEVABLE EDUCATION to me regarding Marriage and relationships!!!
My primary rant is directed toward my WW who vilifies me for EVERYTHING except the VietNam War! It's a darn good thing that I'm COMPLETELY CRAZY about you or I'd just leave you to your "Crazy Alien Life" and let you fall on your face!
My secondary rant is directed toward the scum-sucking PIG (the OM) who took the opportunity to trifle with HIS OWN MARRIAGE AND FAMILY as well as MINE! How did you like it when you and I stood nose to nose? Were you worried? I sure hope so! How did you like it when your Wife and Family were alerted to your scum-suckyness? Were you worried? I sure hope so! May you get full value from your error!!!
My third rant is directed to my WW's "Friends"...who encouraged and supported the affair.....be aware, we know you're NOT her "Friends".
The issue Scotty is you can see the red flags of her marriage all over the place. Nobody wants a pizzing contest. It is frustrating when someone spends so much time here, yet you see the marriage sinking on the Titanic.
I actually enjoyed the comments because it reminds me of what I would have if I took WH back today. I don't want to be that person anymore. I used to be able to fly off the handle like that - every little thing got under my skin.
Today - I try to learn from those people and those moments. It is hard to write to someone when you know they aren't using the comments to really grow.
Oh Bill, don't worry, MY WH has blamed YOU for the vietnam war. It has to be someone else's fault of course.
I could have written that same rant shortly after arriving, but now, uh, I don't care to. Only hold onto that anger as long as it shoots you forward in the RIGHT direction, and then, learn from it, and change it into something useful FOR YOU and YOUR plans.
..Today - I try to learn from those people and those moments. It is hard to write to someone when you know they aren't using the comments to really grow.
Hmm well ITL, I can't believe that about you..All those kids, and you never had the experience of saying something to them over and over and over and over and over...till..."Ok Mommy I just thought of something!" What you were saying comes out with smile on thier face, like they thought of it all by themselves. It was just like they heard it for the first time..
Its why God made kids so cute, so you wouldn't kill em. But God feeds us even when we are bad, just like we feed our children.
We say it because its the truth, and thats the best we can do, whether they listen or not. Can't help getting attached tho, I get it
The issue Scotty is you can see the red flags of her marriage all over the place. Nobody wants a pizzing contest. It is frustrating when someone spends so much time here, yet you see the marriage sinking on the Titanic.
I actually enjoyed the comments because it reminds me of what I would have if I took WH back today. I don't want to be that person anymore. I used to be able to fly off the handle like that - every little thing got under my skin.
Today - I try to learn from those people and those moments. It is hard to write to someone when you know they aren't using the comments to really grow.
Thing is, I read her post. I didn't know what to say, since it wasn't about implementing MB. Sure, there was evidence that MB isn't being used, but I can't MAKE anyone use MB. Also, for a poster whom has been here longer than I to post something, what would I have to add? They should already know more than I do, if they are using the principles in their marriage and doing it the way it is supposed to be done.
I don't post to affairages. As soon as I see that the poster is in one, I ignore them. I won't help people who have knowingly destroyed someone else's life, and now are trying to keep the affairage together. Do some people post to them? Certainly, but not I. I also don't take a lot of time to post to people who aren't legally married to each other. MB can have SOME advantages for them, but not all of MB.
Does any of this mean that I am in a "click?" HECK NO. What it means is that I have my own choices on whom to post to, and I use them. I have loads and loads of experience with plan B, so when a poster is getting close, I will do whatever I can to help them out. But again, I can only give you the same advice again and again if you aren't going to use it.
Remember, the Love Bank applies to ALL relationships in our lives. Even here, there are certain people's names that SCREAM at me "DO NOT READ THIS." Does that make me a bad person? I wouldn't say so.
As far as what I write on my thread now, and for a while, it has been mostly just "talk." I haven't asked for MB type advice for a while. I am only sharing what is going on during my Plan B to allow others to see for themselves what can happen.
The last IM exchange I had, and for MANY of the last ones, I haven't asked MB how I should respond or what I should say, I did it first and then talked about it here to update it for everyone else. I was unaware that some people didn't want me to update my posts. Oh well, I am NOT doing it for them, so I am not going to stop because they don't want it to continue. No sweat off my back.
Just a reminder to people posting, there ARE people on the other side of these words, and they have LIVES too. They have CHOICES, and you shouldn't condemn people for how they CHOOSE to post. And if you feel like YOU aren't getting enough timely attention, maybe you should look at YOURSELF before blaming some strangers on a forum that has tried to HELP you in the past.
Throwing a temper tantrum like that only shows an entitlement mindset, which WILL be challenged.
WOW, I really had a lot more in me than I thought. It HURT.
Thing is, I read her post. I didn't know what to say, since it wasn't about implementing MB. Sure, there was evidence that MB isn't being used, but I can't MAKE anyone use MB. Also, for a poster whom has been here longer than I to post something, what would I have to add? They should already know more than I do, if they are using the principles in their marriage and doing it the way it is supposed to be done.
Scotty, I think that's a great point, truly - I read the whole thing as well, but IMO, I didn't have anything to offer. I stunk at resolving conflict pre-A, and while I have learned MB principles, I have basically no experience implementing POJA in a recovering M.
Originally Posted by Scotland
As far as what I write on my thread now, and for a while, it has been mostly just "talk." I haven't asked for MB type advice for a while. I am only sharing what is going on during my Plan B to allow others to see for themselves what can happen.
Yep. I feel like I blog more than anything else. I don't have an outlet IRL, at least here I get encouragement to keep going, b/c IRL if I do say anything about my sitch I don't get that, I essentially get the whole "it's time for you to move on" speech. I don't have a lot of hope, but I still have some, and I am not ready to lose that last little bit yet, thankyouverymuch. So I know I'm not technically "In Recovery" though I post there, but I'm not "SAA" either...maybe I should move to the D thread, but I'll save that for when all hope is gone. Read or don't read, it's no skin off my nose, but I do appreciate the folks who chime in from time to time even though there's not much that can be said to help in my sitch, except for just knowing that someone hears me out there, and maybe doesn't think I'm nuts.
Or maybe y'all do think I am nuts and are too nice to tell me.
FWIW back to my original point (did I have one?) I read a lot of the threads here, but only weigh in on the ones I feel I can offer help. I don't like jumping in on BH threads too soon with the FWW label, but tend to wait a bit. I feel comfortable trying to help new WSs (WWs particularly) b/c obviously, been there, done that.
In an unrelated note in a more rant-like vein, I have jury duty tomorrow. Urgh.
I dunno if I'll actually get picked for a jury - I'm in tomorrow's "pool." The letter they sent me assigns a #, and then they called jurors # 1 to 200-and-something, and my # is in that range. One of the guys at work got called a few weeks ago, and got on a civil case for an entire week. Most folks who have anything to do with working in the "system" get dumped from criminal cases, but not so civil, which in a way is kind of a bummer 'cause at least a criminal case might be more interesting. Oh well. Haven't been summoned for jury duty since I was in college, and I got out of it then, so might as well go and earn my $12 (which might just barely cover the gas to get down there!!!) and hope they send me home at the end of the day!
Oh well, you know me... _____________________________ con�flate verb
con�flat�ed-con�flat�ing
Definition of CONFLATE transitive verb 1 a : to bring together : fuse b : confuse 2 : to combine (as two readings of a text) into a composite whole
Examples of CONFLATE
<be careful not to conflate gossip with real news>
<the movie conflates documentary footage and dramatized reenactments so seamlessly and ingeniously that viewers may not know what is real and what is not>
Origin of CONFLATE Latin conflatus, past participle of conflare to blow together, fuse, from com- + flare to blow � more at blow First Known Use: 1610
Related to CONFLATE
Synonyms: confuse, confound, mistake, mix (up)
Antonyms: difference, differentiate, discriminate, distinguish, separate
_______________________
Thanks again NG for expanding my vocabulary, although I doubt that useing the words will help in communication with who I ussually talk with...
"Hey Joey, this guy says I am conflating here, Is he a wise guy or something?"
"Dad!, stop useing $10 words, your confusing people at the party", (of course that would be opposite effect I was looking for, trying to bring thoughts and ideas more completly together to form a more rounded statement, and complete thought...)
I accually thought you mistyped for a sec...and I knew it was not Click, but didn't wanna bother looking it up either. Keep us on our toes NG, we all need it.
If you read only one of the linked articles, read asymmetric insight... or I'll place the key here;
Quote
So, you pick a team, and like the boys at Robber�s Cave, you spend a lot of time a lot of time talking about how dumb and uncouth the other side is. You too can become preoccupied with defining the essence of your enemies. You too need the other side to be inferior, so you define them as such. You start to believe your persona is actually your identity, and the identity of your enemy is actually their persona. You see yourself in a game of self-deluded poker and assume you are impossible to read while everyone else has obvious tells.
The name of the team is "Marriage Builders," your persona is "Marriage Builders user."
This is one of many, aside from; man/woman, Christian/other, conservative/liberal, engineer/lawyer, BS/WS, mother/father, sister/brother, son/daughter.
So, yes, we are all parts of a club, clique, team, tribe, and/or group.
The next time someone tries to hurl this as an insult, ignore the spotlight effect, and remember that it is NOT an insult, but pointing out a fact of human behavior as normal and functional as breathing.
The basic point is that the poster MEANT it as an insult and that is what posters were addressing. It was her intended INSULT and entitlement attitude that was addressed as it should have been.
The basic point is that the poster MEANT it as an insult and that is what posters were addressing. It was her intended INSULT and entitlement attitude that was addressed as it should have been.
And the next point would be it is really about as insulting as pointing out that you are from Texas.
We chose to give power to the word as an insult.
And what is an insult? What is the purpose?
To denigrate or reduce the status of the target(s).
In the most recent case, this was not effective. In previous cases, it hasn't been effective.
Why?
Because it tries to take something that is not, in the context of this board, negative and make it so.
Additionally, those who have tossed these words around as an attempt at a negative connotation do so because they choose to exclude themselves from the group.
There are rabble-rousers, and there are arguments, but a fair amount of those who engage in that do so freely with no fear of exclusion because they adhere to the core concepts and processes of the board, and in doing so maintain connection to the group goal.
So, conclusively, to attempt to hurl these terms as insults is not a persecution of those it is leveled at (thought it is an attempt to do so), rather it is a declaration by the accuser of their status as "other."
[ Additionally, those who have tossed these words around as an attempt at a negative connotation do so because they choose to exclude themselves from the group.
[ Additionally, those who have tossed these words around as an attempt at a negative connotation do so because they choose to exclude themselves from the group.
I understand what you're saying, HHH, but let's flesh it out a bit more:
Quote
We chose to give power to the word as an insult.
And what is an insult? What is the purpose?
To denigrate or reduce the status of the target(s).
I would submit that we didn't 'choose' to give it power as an insult. We acknowledged the poster's reason behind choosing the word was to insult or reduce the status of her targets.
The response to the insult was swift and unambiguous. As it should be, as opposed to allowing the comment to stand while the target(s) navel-gazed and examined their own standing and motivations. It would have been unnecessary use of time to twiddle and introspect while listening to someone confirming their own insecurities.
Mopping up and moving on to more important things than blathering about cliques seems a much better use of time.
I understand what you're saying, HHH, but let's flesh it out a bit more:
Quote
We chose to give power to the word as an insult.
And what is an insult? What is the purpose?
To denigrate or reduce the status of the target(s).
I would submit that we didn't 'choose' to give it power as an insult. We acknowledged the poster's reason behind choosing the word was to insult or reduce the status of her targets.
The response to the insult was swift and unambiguous. As it should be, as opposed to allowing the comment to stand while the target(s) navel-gazed and examined their own standing and motivations. It would have been unnecessary use of time to twiddle and introspect while listening to someone confirming their own insecurities.
Mopping up and moving on to more important things than blathering about cliques seems a much better use of time.
Things stand better when they have legs!
I give no excuses to any specific poster on this - the motivation here is to remove the meltdown power of certain words or accusations that pop up from time to time and start frenzies.
This group of terms being one.
In other words; not giving legs to something which isn't standing to begin with, nor wasting time on knocking it down once it's been propped up.
Heck, I'm crazy enough to think I'm part of the clique. Don't care if anyone says otherwise, cause I'm bringing the snacks!
Giving time, energy, and thought to things which are not deserving - and maybe revising so that it happens less?...
Well, it's a "rants" thread after all... If I see a stray bull$hit-balloon and want to waste a few mins taking a potshot at it once in awhile, what better place than here? And it's my day off, W&I played tennis and I ran 2 miles, and the lawn is mowed, and there's gas in the car & the bills are paid, and I'm thawing the salmon for dinner, and she's taken the kids out for some last-minute school-supplies, so I've got the time to waste, and that's my business...
HHH, what are we gonna see from the Seahawks this year?
Rant is people who use use the word responseability and do not realize its two words put together..
Response-ability.
Example.."Your are just not responseable!"
OK, are we saying they are not able to respond? Or are we saying they don't know how to?
We lump it up with doing you chores, pulling your weight, cleaning up your messes,(MB make sure you pick up your pizza boxes BTW OK?), but shouldn't we just say clearly, you have to change your way of thinking?
Big words come from small ones, and if you don't know the small ones,(like NO), they are just noise.
That word, responsible, is the description of someones character who has been taught how to respond appropiatly in the first place. It does no good to yell at your kid and tell them they aren't introspective enough when they they havn't ever heard the word, and are 10 years old.
Ah how we all need to be taught, and how it comes from the simple to the complex, in order for it to be valueable and mean something
Giving time, energy, and thought to things which are not deserving - and maybe revising so that it happens less?...
Well, it's a "rants" thread after all... If I see a stray bull$hit-balloon and want to waste a few mins taking a potshot at it once in awhile, what better place than here? And it's my day off, W&I played tennis and I ran 2 miles, and the lawn is mowed, and there's gas in the car & the bills are paid, and I'm thawing the salmon for dinner, and she's taken the kids out for some last-minute school-supplies, so I've got the time to waste, and that's my business...
HHH, what are we gonna see from the Seahawks this year?
W and I have talked about it. We want to take my dad if we do.
Being a life-long fan of Seattle teams is rant worthy in itself.
Rant is people who use use the word responseability and do not realize its two words put together..
Response-ability.
Example.."Your are just not responseable!"
OK, are we saying they are not able to respond? Or are we saying they don't know how to?
We lump it up with doing you chores, pulling your weight, cleaning up your messes,(MB make sure you pick up your pizza boxes BTW OK?), but shouldn't we just say clearly, you have to change your way of thinking?
Big words come from small ones, and if you don't know the small ones,(like NO), they are just noise.
That word, responsible, is the description of someones character who has been taught how to respond appropiatly in the first place. It does no good to yell at your kid and tell them they aren't introspective enough when they they havn't ever heard the word, and are 10 years old.
Ah how we all need to be taught, and how it comes from the simple to the complex, in order for it to be valueable and mean something
Hows that HHH for nutty?
Perfect. I know you are my copilot on the nut wagon! (Or the pilot, or I am... Or me!)
Oh, there is a nice little article introspection from the same place that I didn't link.
Ah, my delusions of grandeur, of course I love finding a place to celebrate them!
Posters who worry too much about scaring another poster off of the boards. While it is VERY beneficial to have a lot of different people posting on this board as we can ALL learn the concepts better, the posters here should be posting in line with MB principles and concepts. If there is a poster who is posting about how they are going to do things "their" way, and someone calls them on it, it is the RIGHT thing to do, ON THESE BOARDS.
I am not scared to "scare off" someone who isn't willing to even listen to MB advice, or use it. This is a place to discuss MB and all that it entails. Do other things come up? Of course, but it isn't acceptable when it comes at the EXPENSE of MB principles and advice.
When someone is ready to use MB, they won't be scared off easily. When someone understands MB, they become a great asset to this board and all of the fellow posters and lurkers. To all of THOSE posters, I thank you.
I am not scared to "scare off" someone who isn't willing to even listen to MB advice, or use it. This is a place to discuss MB and all that it entails. Do other things come up? Of course, but it isn't acceptable when it comes at the EXPENSE of MB principles and advice.
Scotland, I think its very tempting sometimes to tell people what they want to hear when they see that poster squirm about using the MB concepts. They want to give the person some relief. Unfortunately, that kind of relief is usually harmful in the long term and is not very compassionate. I try to take the long view and ask myself where this person will be in the future if I tell him what he wants to hear rather than what he needs to hear. To me, that is true support.
And you are right, wild horses cannot scare off someone who is serious. And if someone is scared off because they don't want to use Marriage Builders, then there is nothing we can for them anyway.
Amen to that. What I can't live in in the light I don't want.
I am not of course touting all other sorts of embarassing issues, personal skeletons long gone and dealt with, which is what the WSs seem to want to sell everyone when exposure is done. Of course that is petty and obvious.
Exposure is a call for intervention, in something dangerous, and absolutly not nessesary. If they were not afraid of the light, they could have got a divorce in the light.
The main reason I stayed, was I knew where she was headed, and becuase my children. I should have exposed again and again to everybody and left finding support to take the kids away.
I try to take the long view and ask myself where this person will be in the future if I tell him what he wants to hear rather than what he needs to hear. To me, that is true support. ....if someone is scared off because they don't want to use Marriage Builders, then there is nothing we can for them anyway.
Okay, I've got a rant. When a new poster comes to this site, they need - and should have- their own thread. That thread is their lifeline, and our best way to help them.
There was a poster who came here, with his own problem. Another poster commiserated with him, confirming that the affair was horrible and worse than rape or assault. Suddenly, out of the BLUE, another poster showed up to take exception to that post. The poster claimed to have been a lurker for quite some time, and was upset because she was an abused spouse who thought that abuse was worse.
Okay. THEN START A THREAD ABOUT YOUR ISSUE. Especially when you are invited to start your thread by more than one poster! (And you promised you would...and then...crickets.) Why did you NOT POST A THREAD?? I can only surmise that you have NO INTEREST in having help for your issue. Your only interest was to come here and disrupt a thread - shame on you!
There are way too many posters who need help for someone to come online and interfere on a thread with posts about portions of Dr. Harley's program that you don't like. WHILE YOU'RE ON HIS WEBSITE, DUH!
If you want to debate Dr. Harley's concepts, START YOUR OWN THREAD. I am embarrassed to say that I posted back to this poster, and then realized that I was ALSO disrupting the poster's thread with this crap. I deleted my post.
But I can't let this go without comment.
I am thoroughly PO'd at this poster. Her intent was obviously to respond in a negative way to another poster. Fine. Take it outside. DON'T DISRUPT A POSTER'S THREAD WITH YOUR OWN AGENDA.
You have been CALLED OUT, POSTER. You know who you are. Are you ready to start a thread yet, or does that not work for you.
On a similar note, know what I hate? Poachers. People who come to MB or come back to MB for the sole purpose of trying to lure people away from MB, especially when they have left MB and gone to others sites and either disparaged MB or remained silent when others do. It makes me sick to my stomach that people can turn against a place where people have invested HOURS of their time to help them.
Amen Sistah! This is a GREAT place. It helped me save me, when my marriage to my very very xwh was over. Also helped me recover what I could and learn more about how to protect myself and my child in my divorce too.
Years passed and when I remarried, to the RIGHT guy, it has helped me and my wonderful new husband remain tight and have a fabulous marriage! It really works.
But if something doesn't work for you or if you want to try something else, then go do it. No need to dislike this place or the people here or try to lure somebody elsewhere. People are unique and have different ideas. Live in peace, do what you think is best, but no need to spread bad karma.
Ya'll want to know what I hate? I hate waywards who do unthinkable things to their spouse. Like Michaele Salahi who broke up (along with Neil Schon of Journey) two marriages.
She is a skank. How dare she do what she did. Just happy to hear her husband, after he found out she was NOT indeed missing, as he feared, EXPOSED THE HECK outta her and Schon. He exposed everything and let the media bottom feeders do their dirtiest work to expose the dirty affair to the world.
Really? Can people who post at MB not post at other sites to seek additional help? Can people who've posted here not want to keep contact with people who've been very helpful to them during the worst crisis of their lives?
One can have friends at many places on the internet; MB has been very good for me, but sometimes one just wants to see what other advice can be offered. I have sent people here from the teachers' board I frequent--women who have just discovered that their spouse is cheating on them. I always recommend HNHN and SaA to them.
The only thing I wished for at MB when I was a more regular poster was more support. All of the head clique washed their hands of me, because I was a spouse so hurting and desperate that I had an extremely difficult time breathing, let alone following MB.
I'm sorry about that. I wish I could have been a model MBer, but God didn't give me that capacity. I wish he had.
But amen again to Princess Meggy. I've helped many here, and trust me, it is only because I care. So many were good to me, in my hour of need, that I can only pay it forward.
I know this program works. I see it working every day. It keeps me and dh very happy together, and my child loves the fact his family (mom and stepdad) are so happy that it makes my child happier than you could imagine. Heck, it keeps us all tight.
Oh - that bugs me too, Meggy! The sneaking, the crawling, the covert deceit - it makes me want to take a shower, LOL! All to go to another place that is as slimely as you can get. I've been there - nasty. Very nasty.
The only thing I wished for at MB when I was a more regular poster was more support. All of the head clique washed their hands of me, because I was a spouse so hurting and desperate that I had an extremely difficult time breathing, let alone following MB.
For real? I look on your thread and see lots of posters posting to you. Was that not enough? See, we are all volunteers here, HopeandGrace; we are all here for the same reason you are and have no entitlements. I know I personally posted to you several times so I am a little shocked that you are so ungrateful about the help you did receive.
Did you feel that you had a special entitlement to a certain level of support that others don't get? Could the source of your discontent be an unrealistic expectation of the time of other volunteers here?
Melody, you told me yourself that you were removing yourself from my thread because I was a train wreck waiting to happen because I would not go to plan B when you thought I should. That was very hurtful to me; another rejection just after my WH had rejected me. I ached about this for months.
There was no special sense of entitlement--just what is evidently an unusually low feeling of self-worth. I decided you and my WH were both right--I wasn't worthy of consideration.
I did have some very good support over many months, primarily from Scottie, but--I don't know how to explain it. Maybe everyone thought I was in better shape than I was. I wasn't. I needed a lot of support, frequently. Perhaps that is because of the length of my marriage or something about my psyche, but I did need more hand-holding, lots more. I almost did what Mimi did--post to bump my thread to the top, every day.
I offered advice here, when I thought I could. But as someone who felt like such a failure for not being a model MBer, I feared any advice I gave would be wrong. I didn't want to hurt anyone in an innocent attempt to help, so I shut my mouth and tried to learn.
Going to another place was another attempt to try to learn more about WH's motivation for his affair. That's what I do--I've read more about depositions and TN divorces in the past month than even I thought would be possible just to be prepared for Monday. My sister pointed out that I didn't have to study for the deposition but I need to know what will be asked of me this time around.
I've never tried to lure or poach anyone to another place. That's just not my style. Never has been; never will be.
Not that anyone here is entitled to get ANY posts, but I will explain a key factor. The goal of volunteers is to help people learn and implement Marriage Builders. When a poster rejects such advice, volunteers tend to move on. I know I do. I don't come here to chat, yak, yip or say "atta girl;" I come here to guide others through this program.
That is MY idea of support and that seems to be consistent with the other active volunteers. So if your idea of "support" is commiserating and chatting, then yes, you will be disappointed. This is an ER room, after all, not a chat room. If one expects that kind of support, then disappointment will be their lot in life.
And it sounds to me, HopeandGrace, that this is the source of your disappointment. You were looking for a place to commiserate and you wandered into the wrong place for that. And that is ok, but please realize that the kind of "support" we give here is a crash course in MB.
Honestly, the pain can be so deep sometimes no amout of human interaction seems enough, and we still are left feeling misunderstood.
We wish someone could give us the magic bullet, and even the best hearts in the world can't, because they don't have it, or we are not ready.
"When the student is ready, the teacher shall appear", and MB will not allways fit at the time people are searching, and don't know what they are searching for.
But for human relations that are based on responsible self love and the love of others, I know there is probably no better sources than this site, or the authors.
Thank God for MB, it helped me make sense out of a very painful time in my life, and still retain my love for my late wife, as it should be with all that touch our life, without being slaves to it.
I didn't want a place to commiserate. I wanted a place that would help me recover my marriage---I was DESPERATE for this. I'm sorry as I can be that I just could not get on board with the program as soon as you thought I should.
I'm there now. Is it too late for my marriage? I think so. Do I regret that? Yes, enormously. Would I change anything I've done. No, because I tried so very hard at the time and just couldn't do it. Wanted to, so very much. Believed in Plan B so very much. But, like a very overweight person, or someone dying of lung cancer who still smokes--I knew what I needed to do but could not do it, not even to save my life.
Melody, you told me yourself that you were removing yourself from my thread because I was a train wreck waiting to happen because I would not go to plan B when you thought I should. That was very hurtful to me; another rejection just after my WH had rejected me. I ached about this for months.
I am sorry you were hurt, but I would suggest your hurt feelings came from unrealistic expectations about what to expect from other volunteers here. I have no interest and no cause to post to someone who refuses to follow Marriage Builders concepts. That is all I am here for. The fact that you were disappointed tells me you had unrealistic expectations that were based on a feeling of entitlement. I am not obliged to post to anyone. It is your prerogative to ignore the advice given, but it is also my prerogative to stop posting to anyone who is not interested in using MB concepts. That is where my interest lies, after all. I am not a hand holder, that is not in my nature.
Quote
. I needed a lot of support, frequently. Perhaps that is because of the length of my marriage or something about my psyche, but I did need more hand-holding, lots more
I agree, and this explains why you were disappointed. You were looking for much more than this forum offers. That is not the kind of the help we usually give here. So it is probably good that you found a place where you will get lots of hand holding. And I do mean that sincerely.
I didn't want a place to commiserate. I wanted a place that would help me recover my marriage---I was DESPERATE for this. I'm sorry as I can be that I just could not get on board with the program as soon as you thought I should.
Actually you outright rejected the program. And that is fine! That is your prerogative. But it is also my prerogative to move on when you show no interest in the program. As I said previously, I am not a hand-holder, I am here for one reason: to help people understand and use Marriage Builders. If you want help with that, I am your gal. If not, then I won't take it personally, but I have no reason to stick around.
What bothers me, however, is the ingratitude shown to the many posters who did take the time to post to you and try to help you. I know I spent a lot of time posting to you myself.
All of the head clique washed their hands of me, because I was a spouse so hurting and desperate that I had an extremely difficult time breathing, let alone following MB.
Who are the 'head clique', Hope? I remember posting to you - and then suddenly, you were GONE.
If you are referring to posters who gave up trying to help you, well, okay. Those are the 'head clique'.
This site is clear - there are no weird little things going on like there are on other sites. Nothing like weird little funny number counts on PMs - we don't go there at all - or reverent observance of navel-gazing by has-been professionals who have nothing of import to say.
We save marriages here. When they can't be saved, we support the health of the spouse who attempted to save the marriage.
Interesting, this verse came to mind, "A smoking flax he shall not quench", and it is a remeinder that as low as our spirit gets, God will not snuff it out.
I did a search and found it in both the old and new testement, and it reminded me me that Jesus came to fufill the law.
___________________ Isaiah 42:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Matthew 12:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
I too feel like a failure, especially since I see how close I came, if I had only trusted my instincts, which were very much like the principles Dr. H lays out.
I am reticent to give it all over to God, so I am still beating myself up, but I trust the bitterness that I have because of the loss will eventually go, as I agree with Him.
Failure? We were designed to fail, to learn about His grace.
I wish you very well HnG. Very very well and I am sorry you're having the deposition. Know that it's not scary, but you can make it that way if you build it up in your mind. It is not scary in reality. Just a bunch of questions. You tell the truth and offer NOTHING ELSE up for the opposing attorney to use. Simple. Answer questions and only the answer, no elaborations, no explanations.
Everybody does their best here at MB. I sure did. Do I wish I did something different? Sure. I wish I did a shorter, far shorter plan A. But now we know for women, a short plan a works better. My D was a while ago.
Sometimes no matter what we do, a wayward will remain just that, a wayward. And at some point you decide do you wish you save yourself? I have peace and obtained peace courtesy of my faith and also from friends here at MB. I know I did all I could have done, all I knew to do and that my M was beyond saving. Even learned that in phone counseling too. My xwh was simply, going to remain as that.
But what I learned was not in vain. Not at all. It gave me an amazing recovery. Some financial issues took time, but I survived everything and eventually the pain wore off. And in time, when I met my dh, the tools I learned for a successful M here, WORK AMAZING! It keeps us so happy and close. And my child is happier too, because we are so close and all so happy and loving.
The way I see it, MB is like a recipe. You use the right ingredients, most of the time you'll get a great cake or pie. But if you skimp on one ingredient or leave one out, it won't turn out quite right. And then there are a few instances that even when you use the right ingredients, but say your oven isn't working right, or you're at a high altitude, the cake no matter what you do WILL NOT turn out right (like an unrepentant wayward or having to get a divorce).
You simply do the best to try to make the recipe as directed. MOST of the time the results are fabulous. But nothing is guaranteed. Mine wasn't guaranteed. But I kept trying the recipe when I remarried my dh, and guess what? It came out wonderful.
Maybe now you're just going to have to move through this situation and make things work. But do seek wisdom and seek successful outcomes and in time, you will have the right relationship with a right outcome. I happen to think MB has the right wisdom on marriage. So I'm gonna stick to that. Works for me. Not saying there's anything wrong with another site, it is just I see and have seen with my own eyes, and met people face to face who have had their lives changed for the better courtesy of MB.
I also can't post on here all the time. Have a demanding job and am a mom and wife so it's not my primary focus. So not much hand holding from me either. Sorry, wish I could have more time though.
But love to all who take the time to help others here at MB. You all truly made a difference in my life.
Hating on MB or anything silly like that or trying to lure people to go to another site or saying unkind things is SIMPLY SILLY imho. I personally don't have time to meddle in other sites or try to recruit folks from other places. I do tell friends I meet IN REAL LIFE that this place is great and can help though.
In the end, I feel those who seek wisdom should want to encourage others to also go and seek out wisdom too. If somewhere else works for you HnG, then great. I know what works for me and I am here.
HnG, I wish you love, success, and peace right now. Just be calm and do your best at the deposition K?
I know Mamma Mels intentions, and I am a hand holder, and appreciate her direction in cutting to the quick, as you will also in time.
It takes a village
I SO agree with this, CP. We have a few who are highly skilled at hand holding and commiserating. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM. I realize and accept my own limitations. My skill comes in helping people navigate tricky situations using these concepts. I am an action man, not a hand holder. We have very few hand-holders here but the ones we do have are greatly appreciated.
It REALLY does take a village. But it makes no sense to get hurt and angry at posters because they don't provide "support" in a specific expected way; setting unrealistic expectations will always lead to disappointment. Volunteers are not obligated to provide any support in the first place. Most of us have demanding jobs, families and marriages to tend to. They ARE entitled to our attention.
Support is freely given here, and there are no special entitlements to something that is freely given. Our own marriages come first.
.The way I see it, MB is like a recipe. You use the right ingredients, most of the time you'll get a great cake or pie. But if you skimp on one ingredient or leave one out, it won't turn out quite right. And then there are a few instances that even when you use the right ingredients, but say your oven isn't working right, or you're at a high altitude, the cake no matter what you do WILL NOT turn out right (like an unrepentant wayward or having to get a divorce). .
And even in that, the divorce might be the best solution.
Thanks for this peachy, because it confirms that I was not cursed because I beleived the principles laid out in MB way before I read them here.
Vilifing my late WW is not the answer for peace internaly, nor is beating myself up for being such a sap, and sympathising and trying to bear everything.
Its like we get caught up in our emotions and we can't find a way out. I can understand how that can be a trap for us all, and the first person we need to forgive, is ourselves.
But yes we still need guidance, because the world is full of traps, and we need to adress them, with humility and wisdom, we are allways learning.
CP, I agree that sometimes divorce is the definition of success. Just because a person is divorced does not mean they failed. Sometimes they succeeded!
I wasn't suddenly gone, MB. I posted regularly here through March and on beyond that (my memory, thanks to menopause, isn't what it once was.)
The major factor of my "disappearance" was the deteriorating health of my sister. She does have pulmonary fibrosis. It is a death sentence. No one lives longer than a dozen years who has it. She's 51. We don't know how long she's had it, so we don't know how long she has left.
I don't know how to say this re the other site, and given that I've already tried to address it once, maybe I should just stop.
I went there because I wanted a different perspective. I was desperate. I haven't found anything new--lots of people have recommended plan B to me and Dr. Harley. (Ironic, huh?) Some of you will be thrilled to know that my plan B is total and complete. Until Monday's deposition, that is.
I have found a more protected place to post--as someone going through a bitter divorce, I found that attractive.
I don't know what you mean about post counts. I primarily stay where my posts are; I do read about other affairs--still looking for answers. I don't care about the **edit**drama. I am not political; I eschew polarizing comments. I just want to recover my marriage and myself.
You've all managed to make me feel as though I was ungrateful for the support here, when that is far from the truth.
I gave my daughter 2 of Dr. Harley's books. I consulted with Jenn. I've recommended more than a dozen people to this site.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Actually you outright rejected the program. And that is fine! That is your prerogative. But it is also my prerogative to move on when you show no interest in the program. As I said previously, I am not a hand-holder, I am here for one reason: to help people understand and use Marriage Builders. If you want help with that, I am your gal. If not, then I won't take it personally, but I have no reason to stick around.
When did I outright reject the program? I bought the books, read them, read Scottie's thread, read Mimi's thread, read a lot of threads, consulted with Jenn--worked and worked to be ready to do a proper plan B and after entering it, my WH filed for divorce. Still carried on the plan B through March in a deep, dark manner and gave it up when I got a court date and knew I would have to face him. Not totally, but just didn't care if he saw me or not. Depression in action, I suppose.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
We save marriages here. When they can't be saved, we support the health of the spouse who attempted to save the marriage.
What else are you looking for?
Nothing else but that. I wanted to be a success story, but I wanted it to be about saving my marriage. Not me. I don't care so much about me.
When did I outright reject the program? I bought the books, read them, read Scottie's thread, read Mimi's thread, read a lot of threads, consulted with Jenn--worked and worked to be ready to do a proper plan B and after entering it, my WH filed for divorce. Still carried on the plan B through March in a deep, dark manner and gave it up when I got a court date and knew I would have to face him. Not totally, but just didn't care if he saw me or not. Depression in action, I suppose.
You rejected all the advice posters gave to go into Plan B, which was subscribed by Marriage Builders. But like I said, that is your prerogative, just as it is my prerogative to move onto other posters who are serious about using the program.
I just checked your thread, HopeandGrace, and there are hundreds of posts from fellow posters. And I believe you even had another thread at one time that also had hundreds more from fellow board members. I personally made no less than 20 of those posts to you.
When I was new here I was lucky to get *TWO* posts to my threads. I NEVER got 20 posts from one person like you got from me, I doubt I ever got 20 posts in TOTAL to my threads. But I can't imagine putting down Marriage Builders and showing utter ingratitude for the help I did get. I am extremely grateful, even today, for the very few posters who took the time to post to me.
You got hundreds of posts, on the other hand. hundreds.. So it is not truthful to say you didn't get support here. You most certainly did. Much, much more than me and most others.
It REALLY does take a village. But it makes no sense to get hurt and angry at posters because they don't provide "support" in a specific expected way; setting unrealistic expectations will always lead to disappointment. Volunteers are not obligated to provide any support in the first place. Most of us have demanding jobs, families and marriages to tend to. They ARE entitled to our attention. .
Yes I agree unrealistic expectations are for dreamers, and I am all for the basics being the more important,(and most ignored), criteria in all human relationships. I am not a Machevellian. "The end justifies the means".
Back when my late wife was in charge of the children, I was an observer and the enforcer, of what made sense, and would only ad to what made sense, and what didn't, I would take my wife aside and talk to her about it, and let it stay simple.
But as you know that deterorated, as she did.
Your simple and direct approach to the ailments found in todays marriages, is the best and most all encompassing help for these people in crisis. Regaurdless of how everyone wants to feel thier situation is special, in reality they are not, not in the basics, not where it really counts. Not where it will bring about the most change.
You are and have been a Godsend for many people here, and I say that knowing full well that you are just a portion of the love of Christ remenant on the earth. You spread yourself thin in this forum, and I for one could not do what you do, because I have a different portion.
I don't allways feel that I have something to offer, but I beleive it takes a lot of different people, with the same beliefs, to help heal the damaged and stand up against evil, which is anything outside of Gods plan.
Marriges are an example on earth of Gods plan for eternity and an attack against them is an attack against Gods design for humanity. Keep fighting the good fight Mel.
It REALLY does take a village. But it makes no sense to get hurt and angry at posters because they don't provide "support" in a specific expected way; setting unrealistic expectations will always lead to disappointment. Volunteers are not obligated to provide any support in the first place. Most of us have demanding jobs, families and marriages to tend to. They ARE entitled to our attention.
Support is freely given here, and there are no special entitlements to something that is freely given. Our own marriages come first.
I'm not angry or hurt about anyone here. Mostly I'm extremely grateful for the love I felt here from a few special posters. I'll admit, I was hurt that you dropped your support of me when I couldn't yet bring myself to go to Plan B, but I did have peachy and Scottie and princessmeggy and others supporting me.
Toward the end of the time I posted here the support was evaporating. I know people are busy. I honestly don't know how you post as much as you do, ML. I believe people thought I was further along in recovery than I was and so went on to help others. That's fine, but I still needed support.
It's my fault that I didn't convey that. No one here is a mind reader. I'm a most private person, so reaching out for help was a difficult thing for me to do. Communicating solely through this medium--it seems it's something I'm not the best at. Again, my problem.
Rather than continue to try to justify who I am and what I've done or not done regarding another site, I think I'll just bid adieu. Thanks to those who have been a life-giving support to me over the past desperate months of my life. Thanks to all who tried to help me help myself. I wish all of the people here the best.
[ You are and have been a Godsend for many people here, and I say that knowing full well that you are just a portion of the love of Christ remenant on the earth. You spread yourself thin in this forum, and I for one could not do what you do, because I have a different portion.
You are a dear, dear man, CP, and I so appreciate your kind words to me. I have been so richly blessed in my own marriage that I passionately want others to have that too. Thank you for this.
..The major factor of my "disappearance" was the deteriorating health of my sister. She does have pulmonary fibrosis. It is a death sentence. No one lives longer than a dozen years who has it. She's 51. We don't know how long she's had it, so we don't know how long she has left.
I don't know how to say this re the other site, and given that I've already tried to address it once, maybe I should just stop.
I went there because I wanted a different perspective. I was desperate. I haven't found anything new--lots of people have recommended plan B to me and Dr. Harley. (Ironic, huh?) Some of you will be thrilled to know that my plan B is total and complete. Until Monday's deposition, that is. ..
You are getting hit from many sides..May God pull you though.
This site is only part of the many angels speaking to you. again my prayers for you and I hope you have a support group and a shoulder you can cry on, because you are surely going through it.
[I'm not angry or hurt about anyone here. Mostly I'm extremely grateful for the love I felt here from a few special posters. I'll admit, I was hurt that you dropped your support of me when I couldn't yet bring myself to go to Plan B, but I did have peachy and Scottie and princessmeggy and others supporting me.
Toward the end of the time I posted here the support was evaporating. I know people are busy. I honestly don't know how you post as much as you do, ML. I believe people thought I was further along in recovery than I was and so went on to help others. That's fine, but I still needed support.
I am sorry that was not enough for you. You had the support of 3 of our best, most committed posters. That is 3 more people than I had supporting me when I was new on this board. And many, many others, including me, posted to you numerous times. Somehow I suspect nothing would be enough, though.
Again, we are back to entitlement attitudes and unrealistic expectations, which are a sure way to disappointment.
You rejected all the advice posters gave to go into Plan B, which was subscribed by Marriage Builders. But like I said, that is your prerogative, just as it is my prerogative to move onto other posters who are serious about using the program.
I didn't reject it because I disagreed with it. I just didn't want to end contact with my WH. Stupid, yes--I see that now.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I just checked your thread, HopeandGrace, and there are hundreds of posts from fellow posters. And I believe you even had another thread at one time that also had hundreds more from fellow board members. I personally made no less than 20 of those posts to you.
When I was new here I was lucky to get *TWO* posts to my threads. I NEVER got 20 posts from one person like you got from me, I doubt I ever got 20 posts in TOTAL to my threads.
Yes, I did get a lot of posts at the beginning and for several months. I have said that it was at the end of the time I was here that support really dwindled. Others had busy lives; I understand that. But I did need more. I'm still very depressed (even today) and suicidal ideation comes in waves--every 3 months or so. That nice vacation I took to the beach--hardest thing I've ever done because it was moving on without my WH. I was seriously, but quietly, suicidal after that. Only my counselor and my sister knew the depth of my despair.
Quote
But I can't imagine putting down Marriage Builders and showing utter ingratitude for the help I did get. I am extremely grateful, even today, for the very few posters who took the time to post to me.
Putting down MB? Utter ingratitude? Where did I ever do that? Where? Show me, please. I have done nothing of the sort. Haven't I stated my gratitude? I've only said that I felt I needed more support. If you knew me, you would agree. I am a broken woman. I can't get my head to over-rule my heart on anything.
Quote
You got hundreds of posts, on the other hand. hundreds.. So it is not truthful to say you didn't get support here. You most certainly did. Much, much more than me and most others.
I was referring to the end of my time here, when support had dwindled. I still needed more. I'm not going to apologize for that. We're all different. I'm trying to like myself just the way I am. An uphill battle, because I only see the faults that WH enumerated to me when he broke my heart.
You are a dear, dear man, CP, and I so appreciate your kind words to me. I have been so richly blessed in my own marriage that I passionately want others to have that too. Thank you for this.
Well TY Mel, and can I say that if it wasn't for the steps my late wife took, that were so close to what is laid out in MB, I also would not have known the how blessed it could have been, having come so close.
If, well if, we had had Dr H.
During those years, there were some times, preciuos times, even being somewhat overshadowed with the struggles she/we had, that keeps me in the realization, that it could have been different, as it can for all of us.
It can be for us all, in Gods timing, and if we will, as he does. Its all in our submission to His authority.
Oh come on Hope&Grace, let's have a little honesty here. I've read what you've had to say about MB. I personally reached out to you too.**edit** I reached out to you before because I KNEW you were hurting and I was more than happy to help you. Wow.
I'm sorry you're hurting and I'm sorry to see you suffer. I hate adultery more than anything. For real, but geeze louise, how does back-stabbing those who helped you so much help you? And for what?
Amazingly enough people would STILL be willing to help you because that's the caliber of people we have around here.
***edit**
If you give your friends the books, why don't you send them HERE?
Putting down MB? Utter ingratitude? Where did I ever do that? Where? Show me, please. I have done nothing of the sort. Haven't I stated my gratitude? I've only said that I felt I needed more support. If you knew me, you would agree. I am a broken woman. I can't get my head to over-rule my heart on anything.
If this comment below was intended to convey "gratitude" it completely missed the mark. I assure you:
Originally Posted by HopeandGrace
All of the head clique washed their hands of me, because I was a spouse so hurting and desperate that I had an extremely difficult time breathing, let alone following MB.
Originally Posted by Hopeandgrace
but I did have peachy and Scottie and princessmeggy and others supporting me.
And is astonishing in view of the fact that you had some extremely experienced veteran posters consistently posting to you. So no, what you said here does not convey gratitude, but a resentment fueled by an entitlement attitude and unrealistic expectations about the purpose of this forum.
[I was referring to the end of my time here, when support had dwindled. I still needed more. I'm not going to apologize for that. We're all different.
Just because you need something does not mean others are equipped to provide it. The purpose of the forum is to help you with Marriage Builders concepts, not to hold your hand or "love" you. And most certainly the board is NOT equipped or qualified to help a suicidal person. It makes no such claims. It was your unrealistic expectations that has led to your disappointment.
Even so, by your own admission, several posters did stick with you even though they have families and careers to tend to.
Oh come on Hope&Grace, let's have a little honesty here. I've read what you've had to say about MB. I personally reached out to you too.**edit** I reached out to you before because I KNEW you were hurting and I was more than happy to help you. Wow.
****edit*** What did I say about MB other than I was afraid I was going to get lots of 2x4s for breaking Plan B? I believe I also said I was afraid of upsetting Scottie.
****edit**** Let me state for the record: ***edit***I'm a 54 year old woman who'd like to save her marriage. That's the beginning and end of me.
Quote
I'm sorry you're hurting and I'm sorry to see you suffer. I hate adultery more than anything. For real, but geeze louise, how does back-stabbing those who helped you so much help you? And for what?
Again, I'm bumfuddled. Who have I back-stabbed here? When? Again, I think you're attributing motives to me that I don't understand.
Quote
Amazingly enough people would STILL be willing to help you because that's the caliber of people we have around here.
I know that, but I can't get here during the day and have very limited time at night. I generally check in about once a week. This place is ever-changing. I try to keep up with old threads, but I recognize very few threads now.
Quote
***edit***
The primary reason I'm there is to keep up with an old friend **edit**I'd emailed him when he disappeared from MB. Quite some time later, he emailed back. He's given me invaluable advice about something to do with my divorce (in his specialty area.) He emailed back during the time MB was off-line for several days, **edit**
Quote
If you give your friends the books, why don't you send them HERE?
I do and I have. They wouldn't recognize me here, as no one IRL or on other (teacher) boards I frequent knows my username. I've never sent anyone seeking marriage help anywhere else. Why on Earth would I?
Only one more thing to say to you H&G. You shouldn't believe everything you're told without verifying the info. People do lie, and it can lead to wrong perceptions about good people and hopefully one of these day you'll figure it out.
Good luck with the depos next week. Stay calm and don't let them get away with anything.
That's right Melody, I did. Sorry. You get blamed for everything! Why I heard that you're so powerful that you're the reason there's a drought in Texas this year!
[ I think you, PM and ML, are attributing a lot of stuff to me just because I post there.
I didn't say anything about another site so you are attributing stuff to me I did not say.
Your actions speak louder than words.
huh? Your imagination speaks louder than words because you can't point to a single place where I have attributed anything concerning another board. I have no idea what you do elsewhere - and frankly don't care. Do you have an example?
That's right Melody, I did. Sorry. You get blamed for everything! Why I heard that you're so powerful that you're the reason there's a drought in Texas this year!
Melody, you told me yourself that you were removing yourself from my thread because I was a train wreck waiting to happen because I would not go to plan B when you thought I should. That was very hurtful to me; another rejection just after my WH had rejected me. I ached about this for months.
How is telling you to do something for your own good, rejection? Is it better she had said 'Ok, stay outside in a hail of bullets while I sympathise with you'? I mean, come on. Her advice WAS caring, and necessarily tough. She doesnt ask for thanks, but I cannot believe your rant about her.
Originally Posted by HopeandGrace
Nothing else but that. I wanted to be a success story, but I wanted it to be about saving my marriage. Not me. I don't care so much about me.
If you dont care about you, then there isnt anything either 'actionmen' like Mel or handholders can do for you.
Like the very apt metaphor where you described the smoking cancer patient, or the overweight person, recovery (and I mean personal recovery) is your responsibility alone.
You only need one good poster on here. If they say do x, then do Y, then you do it, in the order in which they tell you to, if you want to be an MBer. You cant blame anybody else if you dont. Because no one can make you.
As for the success of your marriage, it sounds like you have now given your WH as much opportunity as possible to help himself out of the mire. If he doesnt, that is his fault, not yours.
Just as your personal recovery is not the fault of posters on here.
You are the only person who can live your life well.
Saying 'god didnt put the capability in me' in nonsense. You do whatever you decide to do - hard or not.
Good luck with the deposition. I think you have a well of strength inside you which you havent discovered yet, simply because you dont believe in its existence enough.
Happiness comes from within yourself, no amount of hand holding or support is going to make you happy, if you don't work at yourself. You can only be given the tools to make yourself happy, but if you don't use them then you only have yourself to blame.
We have a saying in Dutch "Soft healers (ie physicians) make stinking wounds". Just like a band aid, rip it off, it hurts less and shorter, then if you try to take it of slowly.
If you rely on others to heal you and support you, then deep inside you are sabotaging yourself. You need to ask yourself why you are doing that.
And this is not directed at anyone specific, there are an abundance of posters that this applies to.
The only thing I wished for at MB when I was a more regular poster was more support. All of the head clique washed their hands of me, because I was a spouse so hurting and desperate that I had an extremely difficult time breathing, let alone following MB.
What! Your characterization of the help that you received here truly surprises me, H&G!
I specifically remember ML not only trying her dam#est to get you to Plan B...but she spent a good amount of time arguing with another poster who was encouraging you to stay in Plan A despite how poorly you were doing.
Then, as I recall, when you finally did decide to go to Plan B, she came back and helped you AGAIN!
It is too bad that first thread is gone so that people could see for themselves. Maybe to refresh your memory also.
Anyway, good luck with the depo and stay calm...try not to get emotional, that's when you start making mistakes and saying too much...and ditto to all of Peachy's advice regarding it.
HnG, sometimes no matter the BEST LAID PLANS and even plans followed as closely to perfection, as I stated earlier do not give a perfect outcome. Sometimes a wayward WILL remian a wayward.
I suggest to you now, as a friend, to work on personal recovery and also to work on your self esteem. Your words sound so pain-filled. You can search as many sites as you want, seek as much wisdom as you want, but trust me. If you do what I did during recovery (mine) you plan A yourself. You treat yourself kind, you do things which will meet your own and probably very unmet emotional needs and seek out friends and family who love you and genuinely build you up. You also work on your areas that need work, and work to shore up those areas that need help.
MB even has a place for those who are divorcing or are divorced as a place of help too. It really helped me there. You're not unique or alone. I was in same place too. And a marriage recovery does not make or break you as a MB SUCCESS ok?
My marriage didn't survive, but I had one of those really bad wawyards and he refused to change. He lost everything he had in the end, and his "soul mate" and he divorced early this year.
But my time here also taught me that I could in the future, when and if I met Mr. Right, have a truly wonderful marriage since I learned what a great marriage foundation would be and look like. So from the time my dh and I (when we were dating) became serious with each other, I let him learn about MB and its' principles. We have used it now for sev years and have been married a little over a year now. Works like a charm.
So go wherever you wish to to gain wisdom. Seek personal healing and plan A YOURSELF right now. Recovery is tough but it is a journey you could actually enjoy. 54 is the new 44 ok? Put all your energy into healing you and your children now. You WILL get a return on your energy doing that if you try as hard as you can.
You can't sometimes change a wayward, but you can change yourself. Don't say "God didn't put it in me". God made us all EXCEPTIONAL and we can do all things through HIM b/c he strenghtens us. If we choose personally not to better ourselves or act on opportunities, it is OUR fault, not God's. Be the exceptional woman God created you to be. Claim that, live that. You have a great opportunity to BE an amazing new creation now, so seize that chance. Peace.
I used to be responsible to search the internet for negative statements about my employer. I was part of a quality control team working for a company that sincerely wanted to have the very best client experience out there.
There were some pretty nasty things said about the product and service offered by my employer; my experience was completely different. In fact I knew some of those people posting those negative blogs and stuff. We could have spent our time as a team trying to counter those blogs with the "truth" of what they had received, and their part in the program or pin ownership of their issues back on them. But that would not have served to improve perception of our program. In fact, it would have made it worse.
Instead we quietly went about serving those who had legitimate grievances. Even those who had not used the program properly were given a chance to come back and have a better experience with a bit more guidance.
Dr. Harley has a lot to lose by continued slamming of those who go elsewhere for help. It doesn't serve the man you honor, or his work to draw attention that there are other sites.
Some of those sites in question DO honor Dr. Harley and refer people to his program. That is free advertising to Dr. Harley that he doesn't have to pay hosting or any other fees. I see it as a gift of respect, rather than the disrespect referred to here.
I'm a subscriber to the admonition of Paul - seek after things that are good. Anything that seeks to stop infidelity, increase loving marriages is good. Dr. Harley's mission is an honorable mission. Please don't dishonor him by continuing to bashing his detractors.
Speaking from personal professional experience, it will not serve Dr. Harley at all.
I apologize for disrupting another persons thread. I have in fact been lurking here for quite some time and knew that I shouldnt have. However, at the time I made that post, I was very upset about something that happened in my marriage. Since I stated I am in a physically abusive relationship I am sure you guys can guess what. Still no excuse, just trying to relay my state of mind at the moment. I didn't mean to offend anyone and am truly sorry I upset so many people. I do want to start my own thread but as I posted back to you that I am making an exit plan, I am afraid to do so at the moment. That is why I never registered before now. It was kind of an impulse thing as I was reading that thread. I don't want to give out too many details or alert to the fact that I am even on this site since I am on a shared computer.
For what its worth, I believe in MB and all that it represents.
I used to be responsible to search the internet for negative statements about my employer. I was part of a quality control team working for a company that sincerely wanted to have the very best client experience out there.
There were some pretty nasty things said about the product and service offered by my employer; my experience was completely different. In fact I knew some of those people posting those negative blogs and stuff. We could have spent our time as a team trying to counter those blogs with the "truth" of what they had received, and their part in the program or pin ownership of their issues back on them. But that would not have served to improve perception of our program. In fact, it would have made it worse.
Instead we quietly went about serving those who had legitimate grievances. Even those who had not used the program properly were given a chance to come back and have a better experience with a bit more guidance.
Dr. Harley has a lot to lose by continued slamming of those who go elsewhere for help. It doesn't serve the man you honor, or his work to draw attention that there are other sites. Some of those sites in question DO honor Dr. Harley and refer people to his program. That is free advertising to Dr. Harley that he doesn't have to pay hosting or any other fees. I see it as a gift of respect, rather than the disrespect referred to here.
I'm a subscriber to the admonition of Paul - seek after things that are good. Anything that seeks to stop infidelity, increase loving marriages is good. Dr. Harley's mission is an honorable mission. Please don't dishonor him by continuing to bashing his detractors.
Speaking from personal professional experience, it will not serve Dr. Harley at all.
I agree that we shouldn't draw attention to other sites that have been set up in opposition to this one. I think that this forum should be confident in what it provides, as should those other sites.
However, I didn't see any post that "slammed" those who go elsewhere for help. The first post that mentioned other sites was a rant about those who have disparaged MB elsewhere and then who come back here to try and make contact in order to encourage MB members to leave.
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
On a similar note, know what I hate? Poachers. People who come to MB or come back to MB for the sole purpose of trying to lure people away from MB, especially when they have left MB and gone to others sites and either disparaged MB or remained silent when others do. It makes me sick to my stomach that people can turn against a place where people have invested HOURS of their time to help them.
I am not too bothered by such conduct, and that was not my rant, but if you are to respond to it I think you should respond to what was actually said. It wasn't "detractors" per se who were "bashed"; it was those detractors who had previously benefitted from hours of other people's time here, and it was "poachers".
Some sites do honour Dr Harley's programme. Some also engage in continuing and frequent disparaging of it. I hope that when you see that taking place on a site where you post, you speak against it as promptly as you have done here.
I apologize for disrupting another persons thread. I have in fact been lurking here for quite some time and knew that I shouldnt have. However, at the time I made that post, I was very upset about something that happened in my marriage. Since I stated I am in a physically abusive relationship I am sure you guys can guess what. Still no excuse, just trying to relay my state of mind at the moment. I didn't mean to offend anyone and am truly sorry I upset so many people. I do want to start my own thread but as I posted back to you that I am making an exit plan, I am afraid to do so at the moment. That is why I never registered before now. It was kind of an impulse thing as I was reading that thread. I don't want to give out too many details or alert to the fact that I am even on this site since I am on a shared computer.
For what its worth, I believe in MB and all that it represents.
blueheart,
I am sorry to hear about the abuse that you have suffered in your marriage, and I was glad to read that you have an exit strategy in place. Please follow through with leaving your husband. There are women's shelters that will give you and your children refuge, and in many places (I don't know where you live) you will be given financial support. You should take legal advice on bringing charges against your husband, and seeking a restraining order.
I will give you my perspective on your post and the responses it received.
You chose to make your intervention, not only on another thread, disputing the advice that was being given there, but on the thread of an adulterer who was the other man for SIX YEARS in somebody else's marriage. He was seeking help here, but still justifying his involvement in another family's life by saying that his OW was verbally and mentally abused. She had been told by everybody, including her pastor, that her marriage was unsalvageable but she chose to stay for the children and was only now getting divorced.
Meanwhile, while being verbally and mentally abused by her H, she was shagging this poster for 6 years, and had had at least two other one-night-stands during that time. Now that she was getting divorced, she did not in fact want to be with this poster but was planning to see other men.
Her story of abuse (the one she told our poster) was not credible to people here who know that "abuse" claims are often made to justify infidelity, and regardless of whether it was true, he had no business interfering in her marriage. If he truly wanted to recover his own marriage and pay "just compensation" to his own wife, he needed to see his sordid actions for what they were; unjustifiable.
The response from our posters that "Your OW is a spouse abuser who abused her husband for some time. Adultery is more abusive than physical assault", was meant to point out the abusive nature of his OW's actions towards her own H. The original poster was romanticising what his OW had done to her H, and putting himself in the role of her saviour. He paid lip service to his actions being "absolutely wrong", but he absolved himself of any responsibility for her divorce, saying that "Chances are 99.9% certain they would have" divorced if he had never had a 6-year affair with her.
And it was when this cowardly rationalisation was being challenged that you chose to intervene to state that "I strongly disagree with the above statement. While adultery is abusive, cruel and terrible I don't believe it is worse than physical abuse. Physical abuse can very likely lead to death of the victim whereas adultery, although very painful, rarely leads to death, coma, etc."
You disagree? With whom do you disagree? With those victims who have suffered both adultery and battery, who have said that the adultery was worse for them? How are you in a position to disagree with their experience? And yes indeed, adultery can lead to death and coma. We have a regular poster here whose friend, last year, took an overdose when her H left her for his OW. She was on a life support machine for days (thus in a coma, or something similar) until the decison was taken to switch it off, and she died.
My brother-in-law took his own life when the horror caused by his own affair brought on a mental breakdown. We know of many stories here of death as a result of an affair.
But my point is not really about the facts of death and coma in affairs; it is about your choice to step in when the original poster/WH/OM justified his affair with a married woman on the grounds of her "abuse". Your intervention suggested that what he had done was not as bad as what OW's husband had done to her, and people took objection to that.
The abuse you are suffering must be stopped, and we encourage you to use the law and other forms of support to escape it, but it is utterly unrelated to what that poster, an abusive WH and OM, and his OW, an abusive WW and OW in his marriage, did to the many people affected by his affair.
SugarCane, I didn't post here "promptly", as you say.
PM has brought this rant up before. I have taken months to measure my words because I do not wish to offend Dr. Harley, nor would I want to offend PM, or anyone else who devotes so much time to helping Dr. Harley teach his principles to people going through the crisis of their lives.
I am, in a very measured way, letting PM and others know that this is a big world wide internet. There is no such thing as "poaching" in my book. When I do a google search of marriage, affair, divorce, marital problems, there are many different sites that come up.
The best thing PM and others could do is be a better choice, not by directly calling out a so-called poacher (because you actually might be wrong - but even if you're not, it doesn't help this board), but rather by providing a more consistent and reliable support. We all tend to gravitate toward train wrecks and drama. We do a greater service to Dr. Harley to dial down that tendency within ourselves and focus on what matters most.
I learned through the service to my company regarding negative blogs and websites that some of those sites were actual businesses trying to cash in on our previously less than stellar customer experiences. But we paid attention to the true dissatisfaction, fixed it wherever possible, and focused on our own business. I very much doubt those businesses have experienced the over 400% growth our company has had over the last six years.
I would love to see 400% more people get the benefit of Dr. Harley's principles. I wish there wasn't a need. Contention and drama just doesn't serve that higher good.
Still no excuse, just trying to relay my state of mind at the moment. I didn't mean to offend anyone and am truly sorry I upset so many people.
blueheart, many posters are protective of new posters who have just started posting. When their thread is hijacked with another topic they sometimes disappear in the shuffle.
I apologize if I came down on you too hard. Please consider posting - now may be the best time for you to do so. You might get some good feedback for where you're at in your situation.
SugarCane, I didn't post here "promptly", as you say.
PM has brought this rant up before. I have taken months to measure my words because I do not wish to offend Dr. Harley, nor would I want to offend PM, or anyone else who devotes so much time to helping Dr. Harley teach his principles to people going through the crisis of their lives.
I am, in a very measured way, letting PM and others know that this is a big world wide internet. There is no such thing as "poaching" in my book. When I do a google search of marriage, affair, divorce, marital problems, there are many different sites that come up.
The best thing PM and others could do is be a better choice, not by directly calling out a so-called poacher (because you actually might be wrong - but even if you're not, it doesn't help this board), but rather by providing a more consistent and reliable support. We all tend to gravitate toward train wrecks and drama. We do a greater service to Dr. Harley to dial down that tendency within ourselves and focus on what matters most.
But you didn't say that above. You said that she was "slamming those who go elsewhere for help" and she was "bashing his detractors".
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Dr. Harley has a lot to lose by continued slamming of those who go elsewhere for help. It doesn't serve the man you honor, or his work to draw attention that there are other sites.
Some of those sites in question DO honor Dr. Harley and refer people to his program. That is free advertising to Dr. Harley that he doesn't have to pay hosting or any other fees. I see it as a gift of respect, rather than the disrespect referred to here.
...Dr. Harley's mission is an honorable mission. Please don't dishonor him by continuing to bashing his detractors.
Speaking from personal professional experience, it will not serve Dr. Harley at all.
I pointed out what pm actually said, which was not as you represented it.
Does the fact that you would "love to see 400% more people get the benefit of Dr. Harley's principles" mean that you point out that "Contention and drama just doesn't serve that higher good" every time you see it on other sites? I do hope so.
What do we think about maybe starting a 'waywards lie' thread or 'dont beleive anything anything they say' thread or perhaps, If 'they tell you to go left, go right'
When I appeared on this board, I will admit I was deep in BS fog. I didnt know my H was having an affair, even though it was obvious to vets on here when I began describing my m problems.
However when I did find evidence, I stopped putting any credence in anything he said. This was just common sense to me. He had lied to me about his 'friend' so therefore his word was now no good. Like a declined credit card.
However there seems to be a crop of new BSs on here every day, DESPERATE to believe every wayward word.
This happens even when they have discovered an A that they have lied about - and sometimes even when they discover contact is ongoing despite I'll be a good boy/girl promises!
Either its:
He says we dont need exposure - he just needs some space.
or
I dont need her to take a poly, if I just meet more of her ENS, we'll be fine
or
He is going to carry on working with her. He says its just professional between them now
or
ARGGHHHHHHHHHH
If the sentence is prefixed by 'My WS says' then the rest of the sentence is BS.
I may in fact do this thread. Maybe call it, the list of things to not believe from your WS.
Of course that would be everything but specific examples might help people!!!!
It is because they don't understand the addictive nature. That is how I changed my post. I decided to only post about the addiction and EXPOSURE because I cannot get through on anything else.
It has been frustrating lately. If the Betrayed Spouse would fully grasp fog and the brain chemical addiction and then move about as if they are high on crack, then they may get somewhere.
I had an experience this evening. I went to Target to spend too much money. As I walked out we beeped -- I turned around and the cashier waved go ahead.
As I was driving home my six year old son says to me I am going to go up to my room and play with my star cards. I turn around as he was pointing to his pocket.
Me: "Son, did you steal those star cards." Thief: "Mom, I just want to go home." Me: "Son, did you steal those star cards, give them to me immediately." Thief: Starting to cry, "Mom, here -- I just want to go home to my room."
Me: "Nope, we are going back to Target. You know what the consequence is for stealing? Jail!! We will need to see what Target's consequence is for you."
Thief: "Mom, no I can't go to Jail I have school, no mom I just want to go home. No mom!!!!" Bawling his eyes out now.
I drove back to Target - brought him in and made him hand back the cards, tell them sorry, and then ask what consequence do they want for him.
.... Then on the way home my son says to me ...
"Mom, you owe me an apology for hurting my heart."
The exact thing that came to my mind was EXPOSURE. I thought to myself how many waywards want us betrayed to apologize for EXPOSING their sordid adultery?
I told my son, "I am not apologizing, your heart hurts because I held you accountable, and made you pay a consequence. Your stealing caused your heart to hurt. If you didn't steal, then I wouldn't have to turn you into the authorities."
I thought of my MIL who said I was so disrespectful to my WH for exposing and breaking into his email.
I thought - was I just disrespectful to my son for turning him in for stealing? Absolutely not - do the crime - do the time!!!
This is what I am talking about. We are talking to people with jobs and kids, so constructive members of society, you would think.
But its like theyve never heard of the concepts of telling the truth or of consquences before!
I mean, if a couple withdraw from circle of friends because it contains the OP, you have to tel your friends the truth as to why!
When the kids start asking lots of funny q's about mom's male 'friend'....
Its called telling the TRUTH. And the embarrassment to WS and OP is a consequence - one they knew could happen the minute they started sneaking over their boundaries...
"......you owe me an apology for hurting my heart."
The exact thing that came to my mind was EXPOSURE. I thought to myself how many waywards want us betrayed to apologize for EXPOSING their sordid adultery?
THAT is my WW's current attitude!!!!!!!!!! UGH!!!!
I had an experience this evening. I went to Target to spend too much money. As I walked out we beeped -- I turned around and the cashier waved go ahead.
As I was driving home my six year old son says to me I am going to go up to my room and play with my star cards. I turn around as he was pointing to his pocket.
Me: "Son, did you steal those star cards." Thief: "Mom, I just want to go home." Me: "Son, did you steal those star cards, give them to me immediately." Thief: Starting to cry, "Mom, here -- I just want to go home to my room."
Me: "Nope, we are going back to Target. You know what the consequence is for stealing? Jail!! We will need to see what Target's consequence is for you."
Thief: "Mom, no I can't go to Jail I have school, no mom I just want to go home. No mom!!!!" Bawling his eyes out now. I drove back to Target - brought him in and made him hand back the cards, tell them sorry, and then ask what consequence do they want for him.
.... Then on the way home my son says to me ...
"Mom, you owe me an apology for hurting my heart."
The exact thing that came to my mind was EXPOSURE. I thought to myself how many waywards want us betrayed to apologize for EXPOSING their sordid adultery?
I told my son, "I am not apologizing, your heart hurts because I held you accountable, and made you pay a consequence. Your stealing caused your heart to hurt. If you didn't steal, then I wouldn't have to turn you into the authorities."
I thought of my MIL who said I was so disrespectful to my WH for exposing and breaking into his email.
I thought - was I just disrespectful to my son for turning him in for stealing? Absolutely not - do the crime - do the time!!!
Yes - My son stole these cards from Target tonight. I had him return it to them and tell them he was sorry and he asked what consequence do they want for him.
Is there a reason you highlighted his age, the consequences for stealing, and the fact he was crying?
You did great, itstoughlove! I bet he never forgets that lesson. I will never forget stealing erasers from the drugstore when I was 6. My mother hauled my little butt right back up there and made me apologize to the owner and return them. Good for you!!
My parents did the same to me. I copied my cousin when he stole a toy boat, so I just grabbed a doll. Seemed harmless.
I think I was five. I couldnt have been any older - because I would have known better!
I was hauled back down there. Sobbed and said sorry to the shop keeper. Then got sent to bed without any dinner. I felt like a worm.
Oh my goodness, it was so bad! But its what happens when you do something wrong... consequences and truth. Wouldnt want to live in a world without them.
On the way out of Target a Policeman was walking out. I pulled over and said, "Mr. Policeman, can you please tell my son that when someone steals they send them to jail."
My son said "Sorry to the policeman, and I said, "Thank you Sir, just trying to teach the lessons of life."
"Mom, you owe me an apology for hurting my heart."
I've gotta say, I kind of laughed out loud reading this.
There are a lot of similarities between the selfishness of a wayward and the selfishness of a child. We see some of them regularly around here, and we've heard comments similar to this in an attempt to whine one's way out of consequences.
I did the same thing with my daughter when she was about 5, only she had stolen a pack of gum, and we were already home when I noticed that she was chewing it. I made her take the money out of her piggy bank, took her back to the store, and made her apologize to the store owner and pay for the gum. I confiscated and threw away the rest of the gum as a further consequence of stealing.
You absolutely did the right thing!
Barbiecat, there was nothing wrong with the consequences for itl's son.
I would like to rant about people who leave their cheating spouses and marry someone else while still emotionally involved in the cheating turd's life. Move on, or not. Pick one.
I think you did the right thing also ITL and it certainly will help him understand those boundaries. What a character builder, to have to go back and apologize, and also be re-entered into the honest side of life again.
You did him a favor ITL, one that he will remember for a long time.
Why does it seem that BH's have the toughest time entering Plan B? It seems like they either believe that they should continue to Plan A, and then, opps no love left, or they just can't seem to get outta the way of their WW's.
As a BW, I was encouraged to Plan B after a short Plan A, as that is what is dictated by MB and DrH. It was so hard. I even spent many hours during Plan B worrying that I didn't do enough in Plan A(those are weak moments, I KNOW I did the right amount of Plan A).
A BH is encouraged to plan A longer than a BW for a few reasons, but one of the main ones is because the man should be the pursuer. But you can only do that for so long, until you just don't care anymore.
Please, BH's, get yourself into Plan B. It would help you as much as it helps a BW.
And to those XBSs out there, sometimes, when we say "Plan B your X" we are simply talking about going NC with them. While they are still in a wayward mindset, they aren't worth talking to, because they will just drag you into the drama of their life, which is still spiraling out of control. Get outta the way.
I think it's an important lesson for children to learn (and I also think stores should not put candy in the way of temptation for children).
My daughter was about the same age when she stole some candy from the grocery. We walked back to the store together and she had to tell the owner what she had done.
On our walk back home (we live in a very small town), I stopped to chat with the Chief of Police, who was in his squad car, making the rounds. When I finished talking with hime and we resumed our way homeward, my daughter let out a huge sigh of relief and said "Oh thank you, mom, for not telling him what I did!" Lesson learned.
ARGH. Some contact in Plan B is breaking Plan B. That crosses the line. If it were a WS talking about some contact with their OP the boards would jump all over you. Remember, NO CONTACT.
I know it's more difficult, but that's why you are supposed to PLAN BEFORE you enter Plan B. Then, while you are in Plan B, you need to plug up the holes.
It's not impossible to go dark on a WS. Actually, when you have been dark for a while, most of the time, you want to stay that way. So please, for love of all that is holy and good, NO CONTACT DURING PLAN B.
Posters who have an affair, break no-contact despite advice to the contrary, conclude MB doesn't work for them (after having not followed such crucial principles as no-contact), who then effectively bail out on their marriages, and then show up in the "After Divorce: Dating & Relationships" section to start questioning perspectives given over there without even updating their signature lines...
Posters who have an affair, break no-contact despite advice to the contrary, conclude MB doesn't work for them (after having not followed such crucial principles as no-contact), who then effectively bail out on their marriages, and then show up in the "After Divorce: Dating & Relationships" section to start questioning perspectives given over there without even updating their signature lines...
That's a bit vague, GO. Could you be more specific?
Posters who have an affair, break no-contact despite advice to the contrary, conclude MB doesn't work for them (after having not followed such crucial principles as no-contact), who then effectively bail out on their marriages, and then show up in the "After Divorce: Dating & Relationships" section to start questioning perspectives given over there without even updating their signature lines...
Posters who have an affair, break no-contact despite advice to the contrary, conclude MB doesn't work for them (after having not followed such crucial principles as no-contact), who then effectively bail out on their marriages, and then show up in the "After Divorce: Dating & Relationships" section to start questioning perspectives given over there without even updating their signature lines...
I hate being a betrayed spouse with all my heart and soul....but.....so help me.... I think I would hate being a wayward even more.
(at least being a betrayed gives me clarity that waywards just do not have)
I had this EXACT thought after reading Ms. Foggy Foggerson's thread earlier.
She was very into typecasting her advisors as bitter because 'you are the hurt ones'
I would rather be hurt than be disgusting.
I was flabbergasted about her take on the fact that it isnt cheating if you tell your spouse about it. The poor guy must have got his heart ripped out on to the kitchen floor, and she's just stepped on it, patted herself on the back for being 'honest' and gone out to rut in the pig pen.
And this is eight years later - she still doenst get that she made vows with this man.
WW has affair, BH exposes it big time, WW is humiliated and then tells BH that she'll commit to recovery ONLY if he (basically) apologizes for exposure.
And then the BH actually considers it a valid question and is allowing a wayward's ranting to derail the whole freaking purpose of exposure.
UGHHH!!!!!!
I just want to knock some sense into him to take back the control that he had only a few hours ago. He's (hopefully) *this* close to getting this marriage turned in the right direction and is letting fear take over.
I find it extremely insulting to people who are trying their darndest to pull off the best dern Plan B, and read someone suggest a poster have "some" contact with the WS and it is still called "Plan B." Or a poster who says that there are in Plan B, but are really NOT.
I know there is sometimes when someone can't do plan B, the way DrH describes it. They have advice from a lawyer perhaps, that tells them that they MUST have contact with the WS. It is their right NOT to follow Plan B, but to call it that, it's just not fair to those of us who are IN Plan B, or who are trying to get others to enter it.
This is NOT against anyone in particular, it is just that I have had enough.
I know I, and some other Plan Bers, have felt guilty about looking at an email, or a FB page, or out a window, and then to read that someone else has CONTINUED contact with the WS, and sometimes are even encouraged to "modify" Plan B. ARGHHHHHHH.
It's like suggesting that a recovering couple not spend 20+hours together, or to not POJA everything. We wouldn't do it. So why are so many posters quick to call what they are doing a Plan B when it is most definitely NOT. And shame on the people who tell the posters that they can "modify" Plan B. Uh-uh, no way.
These posters can still follow MB, albeit watered down, but they need to expect the watered down version of recovery as well, either MR, or PR.
I find it extremely insulting to people who are trying their darndest to pull off the best dern Plan B, and read someone suggest a poster have "some" contact with the WS and it is still called "Plan B." Or a poster who says that there are in Plan B, but are really NOT.
I find that ALARMING because they are getting bad advice on this board. And I hope you say something about it. People don't come here to hear about our personal philosophies, but about Marriage Builders. Plan B means NO contact, period. Otherwise it is not Plan B. And in all the years I have been here I have only known of TWO situations where a judge demanded direct contact, usually as a result of a wuss lawyer. And even in those cases, we rigged it so the BS was not in contact at all, but the email account was monitored by an IM. [without the knowledge of the WS]
There is no such thing as Plan B light. You either are or you AREN'T.
Why would a poster go to all the trouble to set up an account here in order to post about their situation, and then not tell us everything we need to know in order to help them? What the heck's the point??
Why would a BH drop in occasionally over a period of MONTHS, talking about everything regarding their marriage EXCEPT the fact that they discovered that their spouse was having an affair??
LOL! I thought this week was really crawling! Whew!
Funny thing is, I had to actually THINK about it. I have the whole week off of work(unfortunately), and I can't remember what day of the week it is. Since I box on Mon, Tues, Wed, and Fri, I felt too sore for it to be only MONDAY. That's why I was worried. At least it doesn't only happen to ME.
I know I, and some other Plan Bers, have felt guilty about looking at an email, or a FB page, or out a window,
Hmmm, who does this refer to?
Originally Posted by Scotland
... and then to read that someone else has CONTINUED contact with the WS, and sometimes are even encouraged to "modify" Plan B. ARGHHHHHHH.
And those that have encouraged contact are further confusing a BS when entering Plan B can be difficult enough. Most of us entering Plan B still have quite a lot of fog left ourselves.
I am so grateful I did not have anyone suggesting contact in the early days of Plan B. No way would this have done me any favours. I do remember reading other's threads that were having some contact and being confused and questioning if I should do this too. Luckily I had some self-awareness and commitment to the plans. And some task-masters on my case!
I agree Scotty. You're either all in or out in Plan B. I used to think you could peek out of Plan B to take the temperature of the WS or that it was okay to break contact in an extreme emergency. It's not. Not because of how it effects the WS but because of how it effects the Plan B'er. Plan B should be thought of as "Pitch Black" with no shades of gray allowed. There is a purpose to Plan B and it cannot and should not be altered EVER.
...and who try to invoke the God of truth as their defense counsel to justify the continuing concealment of their lies...and who somehow don't see the non sequitur in all its ironic richness.
You all are just so darned mean to those poor waywards. After all, they were just sitting there, minding their own business and doing good works, when THE DEVIL swooped in and dragged them into their AP's clutches! I mean, really now...
Kind of hard to tell now. Doesn't matter, whatever is posted on his thread will be read by her now.
A good thing her thread was locked--I was just about to post a "not-so-nice" comment to her. Gotta remember your admonition to not be so darned mean to those poor little waywards!!
Holy smokes, her thread really should go down as one of the foggiest narratives ever written.
Wow. That was both funny and painful at the same time.
Seriously, y'all, how do you avoid just not flat-out cussing out some of these wayward posters? Maybe it's just too recent for me to be open-minded to them? Dunno.
Seriously, y'all, how do you avoid just not flat-out cussing out some of these wayward posters? Maybe it's just too recent for me to be open-minded to them? Dunno.
Time. Experience.
Sometimes I cuss anyway.
But, most of the time I remind myself that the dumbasswayturd is someone's beloved .... or was at one time.
We have all been in the position of acting stoopid. We have all been in the position of needing forgiveness.
Having said that, I think active waywards are needing a good old fashioned [censored]-kickin' .... many a time.
!!! = post from WS !!!!!! = post from foggy WS !!!!!!!!! = post from foggy and busted WS !!!!!!!!!!!!! + CAPS = post from foggy, busted WS still in active A
"After all the incalculable damage I've done to everyone around me with my selfish decisions, after I've laid waste to years and years of what could have been happiness and contentment for myself, my husband, my children, our friends and family...I'M BACK!!! YAY!! It's ALL GOOD! IT'S LIKE MY BAD ACTIONS NEVER HAPPENED!! YAY FOR ME!!!"
"So, we're going to just pick up on where we left off. No one wants to look at the messy reasons behind my selfish choices, right? I mean, why bother?? I'm back in the marriage, aren't I?? I don't need to look at my nasty behaviors and do anything differently - everyone is just sooooo glad to get back to NORMAL."
"After all the incalculable damage I've done to everyone around me with my selfish decisions, after I've laid waste to years and years of what could have been happiness and contentment for myself, my husband, my children, our friends and family...I'M BACK!!! YAY!! It's ALL GOOD! IT'S LIKE MY BAD ACTIONS NEVER HAPPENED!! YAY FOR ME!!!"
"So, we're going to just pick up on where we left off. No one wants to look at the messy reasons behind my selfish choices, right? I mean, why bother?? I'm back in the marriage, aren't I?? I don't need to look at my nasty behaviors and do anything differently - everyone is just sooooo glad to get back to NORMAL."
So unfortunate. In so many ways.
Yup, the sure signs of denial, my late WW was guilty of this, and like Mels sigline,"Misplaced compassion gives power to Evil"
But everybody wants to be the nice guy right? If you are a man you better be, because telling the truth well, you aren't perfect are you?
Well I guess I won right? She died in her sins, and it all caught up with her. Guess what? I never wanted to win this contest. Sure I am slowly putting it all behind me, but seriuosly, am I supposed to forget the person who fought so hard to get out of the alcoholic box she was born into?
Yeah the pride and pain and will to hold onto the past. It really is a death knoll. After all, it isn't fair now is it?
Hyperbole ( /haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-pur-bə-lee;[1] Greek: ὑπερβολή, 'exaggeration') is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.
Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect. As a literary device, hyperbole is often used in poetry, and is frequently encountered in casual speech. An example of hyperbole is: "The bag weighed a ton."[2] Hyperbole helps to make the point that the bag was very heavy, although it is not probable that it would actually weigh a ton.
MB Example of Hyperbole: I stayed stuck in my bad marriage (even though I cheated) because posters told me the MB plans are infallible so the problem must be me.
The truth: I have NEVER read ANYWHERE on MB where an MB poster has been told that the MB plans are "infallible".
MB is not marriage-at-all cost, dating-while-married, or divorce-so-I-can-play. The plans work for those who use the plans properly. MB success can mean building a solid marriage, recovering from an affair, or after all efforts are said and done, a divorce with personal recovery and a life of integrity.
One of the MAIN tenets of MB is HONESTY -- and that doesn't include hyperbole.
Drives me a little crazy to see posters with reluctance to use Snooping 101 tools such as:
GPS VAR Keylogger Spyware on phone
Especially if an affair is suspected, there has been recent contact, or the WS is still foggy/not fully withdrawn.
This demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of how sneaky a wayward can be, and I have seen this backfire on so many posters over the years, it is not even funny. *sigh*
I'm lost - who the heck is Sandy Moore? Am I missing a breaking news broadcast? I googled her and got a large-breed herding dog breeder. I suspect that's not the one, unless some dog breeder has attracted your ire?
I'm lost - who the heck is Sandy Moore? Am I missing a breaking news broadcast? I googled her and got a large-breed herding dog breeder. I suspect that's not the one, unless some dog breeder has attracted your ire?
Hyperbole Greek: 'exaggeration') is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.
Hyperbole is used when facts do not support a supposition. When I read hyperbole in a MB debate, I suspect frail logic based on insecurity.
Hyperbole Greek: 'exaggeration') is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.
Hyperbole is used when facts do not support a supposition. When I read hyperbole in a MB debate, I suspect frail logic based on insecurity.
Reminds me of the song"Bad bad billly is sweet William now"
The words go
" married life just changed him somehow He used to go out looking for a fight Now he stays home with his women every night
Bad bad Billy don't fight any more
Does the dishes, moppin up the floor"
...and so on
But the difference is in the natural ability of a women to tame that savage libido and make us think with the right head, and the abuse of that power, just like Billy used to himself
Sex should be classified as a misdemeanor, the more you miss it, da meaner you get
But for those of us who have outgrown, those impulses to think with our feelings, or controlled our feelings through understanding them, or fear of consequences of acting on them...
We can't forget they are allways there, and they deserve respect, because that is how we were made
This exposure stuff is... "character assassination!"
Quote
Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominem argument.
"Hey, everybody! WS has been sleeping with another man!"
"That's character assasination!"
"Um. No. You have to have character for it to be assasinated."
H was looking over my shoulder as I was reading this thread last night. Not knowing it was a rant thread, he commented that exposure is not "character assassination", but is a "life ring" for the wayward.
Yep, I think we will be sticking with each other. I have been his "life ring" twice - once on D-day and once after the false recovery. That's my limit though and H knows it. Next June, we will celebrate our 30th anniversary.
H was looking over my shoulder as I was reading this thread last night. Not knowing it was a rant thread, he commented that exposure is not "character assassination", but is a "life ring" for the wayward.
You know, I was going to read the 40+ pages of his thread. So I read the first page and see he has not exposed the affair. Click to page 40 and, what, he still hasn't exposed and is concerned what his adult children will think.
*sigh*
But, if nothing else, it sounds like pep made a funny on the thread involving a piece of poo so at least something was accomplished.
Spoken by a WS, I suspect a little white-washing of the facts, if not outright lying. (Or, a lack of opportunity due to distance) Spoken by a timid/frightened WS, I suspect denial and hampered vision via the wearing of rose-colored glasses combined with wishful thinking.
And, the word "only" has no purpose except to downgrade the importance of the experience.
"It was an emotional affair." <~~ Works better for me. I downgrade my suspicious mind.
The eternal question.... Often a thread title. A wounded one will often ask the forum.....
Quote
Is there hope?
Hope springs eternal in the human breast; Man never Is, but always To be blest: The soul, uneasy and confin'd from home, Rests and expatiates in a life to come. � Alexander Pope, An Essay on Man
The answer is always "Yes".
But what is hope without willingness to take action? One might "hope" for fresh air, but yet refuse to get out of the chair to open the window. Their "hope" has been downgraded to wishful thinking.
What if hope is provided by following a PLAN of action? What if one's "hope" will only become fruitful after the sweat of one's effort?
When a risk-averse MB'er whimpers: "Is there hope?" ... What he/she is really asking for is results that do not require courage/risk/effort.
�To love is to risk not being loved in return. To hope is to risk pain. To try is to risk failure, but risk must be taken because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing.� ~ Unknown.
We often respond to the "Is there hope?" with a detailed, step-by-step "This is how it's done" MB-style reply.
Sometimes this generous effort is rewarded with: Yes but .... Being totally ignored .... A lengthy, overly detailed novella of past troubles ....
Here is MY question: (at long last) IS THERE HOPE for the risk-averse hopers?
It takes me longer to 'open' it than it does to eat it.
And then, you finally get that pesky shrinkwrap off there, and you smell the sweet mint fragrance. You are reminded of the wintry essence of fond Christmases past...your mouth waters in anticipation of that burst of mint as you taste the cane...and then, and then...it snags one of your taste buds and ruptures it.
Pesky shrinkwrap is a rant all its own... they wrap the candy-canes so friggin' tightly that you need to break out tools to get a fingernail-hold so as to peel it off...
An' how about drinking straws? Same thing! Remember how when you were a little kid, you could tear off the straw-wrapper at one end, slide the wrapper down a little bit, stick the open end of the straw in your mouth and blow the straw-wrapper at whoever was sitting across the table from you, like a little paper-dart, for good ol' juvenile fun?
But NOOOOO!... Some pencil-headed MBA had to go & figure out that if you manufacture billions of straws, you can probably save ten bucks a week on paper supplies, by making the straw-wrapper so tightly conformed to the straw that removing the wrapper is now a time consuming exercise that often results in the straw getting kinked or spitting open lengthwise.
Sorry, I just had to get that out there... been bugging me for several years... Now I can get on with enjoying the holidays...
Glove, that one bugs me as well. You have to peel it off these days. Of all the things to get bothered and ticked about these days, it seems pretty low on the priority totem pole. But when it happens, you DO remember the little child in you, and when that little simple pleasure is taken away, it REALLY aggravates you for a moment. Of course, I alway laugh at my sillyness afterwards.
I can't even seem to get the candy canes out of the boxes without breaking them. What does that say about me? On second thought, don't answer that, I don't think I want to know.
My rant for tonight, waywards who think that just ending the affair is good enough to recover their marriage. NOPE.
I thought I was the only one who noticed that about straws! Also, when I was a kid, I'd poke the end on the table to pop the other end out, but at some point that became impossible because the straw would crack. Less material in them, I guess.
Tell you whats driving me NUTS lately. People who have been on here for months, even years in some cases, yet act like theyve never HEARD of MB.
DO SOME READING, PEOPLE - or at least get the wax out of your ears and listen.
1) Oh I cant be bothered/too afraid/busy/lazy to implement MB plans 2) MB principles dont apply to me because I'm special and smarter than all of you. What's the name of this website again? 3) Im here to blog. Occasionally I will promise action, but thats just to keep you reading so I can waste your time. 4) Tell me how I can get my spouse to do MB - but dont expect me to do the same for them, I'm perfect. 5) I am the great disappearing act. When I want to vent, you see me - when I want to go against MB principles, I will DISAPPEAR.
It's sad that some folks think that their abusive situation is, in some way, normal or even remotely "ok" for them to live with. Or, that they agree that it's not ok but just cannot seem to do much about it for some reason or another?
I want to scream at them "HEY, WAKE UP! Why are you putting up with that! That crap you're living with IS NOT FREAKING NORMAL!!!"
I have a poster in mind, of course, and hope that they get a fire under their rear very soon.
I have a poster in mind, of course, and hope that they get a fire under their rear very soon.
You mean the one whose husband has a locked closet in the house that she has no access to? And passwords on both his computer and his phone. And full control of all finances and bills... Oh, brother.
I have a poster in mind, of course, and hope that they get a fire under their rear very soon.
You mean the one whose husband has a locked closet in the house that she has no access to? And passwords on both his computer and his phone. And full control of all finances and bills... Oh, brother.
Actually, it was a different one but that one definitely wins as well. A buck gets you twenty that there's a keylogger on that poster's computer. I mentioned a way to check (looking for antivirus exceptions) but didn't see a reply. Oh well.
Sometimes you just don't know *what* to say but just hope for the best.
Politicians believe we can't see their blindingly partisan pontifications for what they are - pure, unadulterated BULL!
Both gaslight their audience. Some buy the bull. Others don't know how to call them on their crap. Others don't miss a thing, blow the doors off exposing them both to be the liars, thieves and skulking creatures that they are.
Can you tell I've read one too many gaslighting threads tonight - where the betrayed spouse is one more time expected to believe as the God's Sworn Truth what the wayward is spinning. Couple that with a propaganda/i.e. speech spoken by some carpet-bagger politician (not a statesman) complaining that those of the other party are out to protect the bad guys, Keep the money in the hands of the rich and derail the economy and stiff the working man in the process (gag - I know my job doesn't come from a poor person punching a time clock - and he thinks John Q Public is stupid enough to just keep soaking up his swill).
Can't people do what's right? Come on people - life really isn't that difficult. Just do what is right, and stop hurting people. Just stop hurting those who love you!!!
Tell you whats driving me NUTS lately. People who have been on here for months, even years in some cases, yet act like theyve never HEARD of MB.
We have members who have been here for over 10 years who have never read a single Marriage Builders book. So no, they have never heard of Marriage Builders!
And I don't care if they post here, but my pet peeve is when they go on the threads of newcomers and debate with board members who do understand MB.
4) Tell me how I can get my spouse to do MB - but dont expect me to do the same for them, I'm perfect.
Exactly! The world's greatest excuse for laziness! I'm sure I need to make changes, but I refuse to see the point, because I know my spouse needs to make MORE changes, so I'll just sit on my hands and demand that they change, because after all, they are the real cause of the problem.
My cat, Simba, thinks my computer mouse is his throne to sit upon. He refuses to POJA. He is selfish in the extreme. I still love him. Which MB plan should I try? (Mel is NOT allowed to respond to this post)
You need to stop being the cause of Simba's unhappiness. Letting him sit on the mouse is a small price to pay for his graciousness in allowing you to live in his house.
My cat's day is not complete unless she walks across my laptop while I'm in mid-type. It's pure luck that she has not yet posted in cat language on Marriage Builders because I sometimes leave my laptop open on the couch while I attend to chores around the house.
My cat's day is not complete unless she walks across my laptop while I'm in mid-type. It's pure luck that she has not yet posted in cat language on Marriage Builders because I sometimes leave my laptop open on the couch while I attend to chores around the house.
Actually, think again, bliss. It would explain some of your posts...
My cat's day is not complete unless she walks across my laptop while I'm in mid-type. It's pure luck that she has not yet posted in cat language on Marriage Builders because I sometimes leave my laptop open on the couch while I attend to chores around the house.
Actually, think again, bliss. It would explain some of your posts...
You need to stop being the cause of Simba's unhappiness. Letting him sit on the mouse is a small price to pay for his graciousness in allowing you to live in his house.
My cat's day is not complete unless she walks across my laptop while I'm in mid-type. It's pure luck that she has not yet posted in cat language on Marriage Builders because I sometimes leave my laptop open on the couch while I attend to chores around the house.
That is due to happen around here sometime soon, too.
And when it does, I will tell MelodyLane it is Pepsi's fault!
MAH KATS DAI IZ NOT COMPLETE UNLES SHE WALKZ ACROS MAH LAPTOP WHILE IM IN MID-TYPE. IZ PURE LUCK DAT SHE HAS NOT YET POSTD IN KAT LANGUAGE ON MARRIAGE BUILDERS CUZ I SOMETIMEZ LEEF MAH LAPTOP OPEN ON TEH COUCH WHILE I ATTEND 2 CHOREZ AROUND TEH HOUZ.
My cat, Simba, thinks my computer mouse is his throne to sit upon. He refuses to POJA. He is selfish in the extreme. I still love him. Which MB plan should I try? (Mel is NOT allowed to respond to this post)
My cat, Simba, thinks my computer mouse is his throne to sit upon. He refuses to POJA. He is selfish in the extreme. I still love him. Which MB plan should I try? (Mel is NOT allowed to respond to this post)
ONE WORD: SNIPE HUNTING!!!
Ummm, I believe that's TWO words. Just saying. You could always hyphenate them and then you'd be correct.
I was actually talking about this fact last night at my work party. Apparently, if you untwist the bottom of the wrapper, the seam opens and you can take the wrapper off. I got a demonstration of it and IT WORKED.
My cat, Simba, thinks my computer mouse is his throne to sit upon. He refuses to POJA. He is selfish in the extreme. I still love him. Which MB plan should I try? (Mel is NOT allowed to respond to this post)
I've been thinking about the people who assisted my WXW with her adultery�Her enabling toxic friends who were supposed to be looking out for her best interest.
I thought they were my friends too. Looking back, they just all seem so rotten.
Trying: Isn't it funny that those friends that acutally stood up and said, what the he!! are you doing, were thrown in the trash... And the ones that just go along and blow sunshine up her azz are now the greatest!!!!
Scum of the earth!! I know what kind of friends I want, How bout you
I was actually talking about this fact last night at my work party. Apparently, if you untwist the bottom of the wrapper, the seam opens and you can take the wrapper off. I got a demonstration of it and IT WORKED.
It works! It works! I just tried it and it works! Oh the bliss!
I was actually talking about this fact last night at my work party. Apparently, if you untwist the bottom of the wrapper, the seam opens and you can take the wrapper off. I got a demonstration of it and IT WORKED.
It works! It works! I just tried it and it works! Oh the bliss!
I know right. Learning that at 36 years old seems odd to me. What else hasn't my mother taught me? It's something they should teach you in school.
Am I the only one that didn't know that Brian Doyle Murray is Bill Murray's brother?
Whos Bill Murray? J/K, I love What about Bob?. Esspecially his mantra he has and how it didn't work when things were going wrong..."I feel good, I feel great, I feel wonderful!", and how he would say it louder and louder till he blew up in a panic.
Richard Dreyfus got what he deserved in that movie lol..
An aquiantence of mine is the pastor,(or one of them), for the NBA, and he took another friend of mine to a game where he sat next to Bill Murray. He said, "He is a funny guy.."
Honestly, CP, "MelodyLane" doesn't even fit the tune!
Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies I sit, and meanwhile back Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies... Melody Lane.
Honestly, CP, "MelodyLane" doesn't even fit the tune!
Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies I sit, and meanwhile back Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies... Melody Lane.
Honestly, CP, "MelodyLane" doesn't even fit the tune!
Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies I sit, and meanwhile back Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies... Melody Lane.
Honestly, CP, "MelodyLane" doesn't even fit the tune!
Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies I sit, and meanwhile back Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies... Melody Lane.
Honestly, CP, "MelodyLane" doesn't even fit the tune!
Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies I sit, and meanwhile back Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies... Melody Lane.
Honestly, CP, "MelodyLane" doesn't even fit the tune!
Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies I sit, and meanwhile back Melody Lane is in my ears and in my eyes There beneath the blue suburban skies... Melody Lane.
I think they are actually making the wrappers better. The ones I dealt with last night just sort of fell off.
I'll bet there's a new way of doing it, and some old stock candy canes are still for sale.
Which means Christmas circa 2012, 2013 is going to be a lot better than Christmas past.
I don't eat Candy Canes, but Star, the horse does. She prefers the larger ones that are easier to unwrap, easier for her to lick, and easier for me hold.
I think they are actually making the wrappers better. The ones I dealt with last night just sort of fell off.
I'll bet there's a new way of doing it, and some old stock candy canes are still for sale.
Which means Christmas circa 2012, 2013 is going to be a lot better than Christmas past.
I don't eat Candy Canes, but Star, the horse does. She prefers the larger ones that are easier to unwrap, easier for her to lick, and easier for me hold.
The horse prefers the ones that are easier to unwrap?
Well, I suppose I would too if I had to unwrap them with my hooves.
Announcement: I was abused as a child. Therefore, from this day forward, I get to do whatever I want. I will not be responsible for my actions. Any bad behavior on my part must be looked upon with forebearance and pity, as I am one of those marginalized minorities who had some bad experiences as a child.
I am accepting donations for my therapy fund so that I can whine to my therapist about my childhood, which will successfully relieve me of having to accept any poor results of my adult decisions. Feel free to contact me so that I may forward wiring instructions to anyone who would like to wire therapy funds into my account.
It drives me crazy when a poster comes here and doesn't actually use the plans. This resource is the best around, why would you squander such an opportunity? I know that I would have benefited greatly had I found MB earlier, but as it is, I didn't do too bad.
And then, you've been a member since the early days, and you were a BS, only to marry someone new and become the WS. What happened to using MB in your new relationship? What were you thinking? It's here, it's free, use it.
this is not a rant sorry- but this is where you vets hang out so i just wanted to drop a note to you all to say thank you for helping so many get through a rough year.
and a chistmas poem my mom gave me...
For You At Christmas
If I could do whate'er I want to do To make glad your Christmas day, I would not bring a thing to you, But would take some things away.
I'd take all troubles from your heart, Each pain and sorrow would be relieved. And every word that caused a single smart, And every hour through which you grieved.
I'd have them all forever gone, Forgotten, like things that cannot be, Then each hour would be a joyous one, For only good things would be left, you see.
That's what I'd REALLY like to do If I could do the things I wish for you!
I am back. I can't remember my old username, but the same thing is happening. He/she is in another/same affair.
AM, if you want to read something that will raise your blood pressure, go back and read some of the old posts to those people who are coming back. It is chilling. Some were told not to expose, don't snoop, just be as nice as possible. I will never forget a so called board "veteran" telling BobPure he had to "POJA" exposure with his cheating wife. [thank God he did not listen!] That is why we see so many people come back with repeat affairs. Marriage Builders was a board secret back then and no one knew how to recover. At least these newer people [past 3-4 years] have no excuse. All the tools are here for the taking!
I'm already on medication for high blood pressure.
It seems as if there has been an evolution of MB advice on the forums. I think one improvement is the identification and "call out" of non-MB advice. Another great benefit are the compilation threads - all the information in one place. Bless those who put those helpful threads together.
I feel badly for those who struggled after receiving useless advice. In a conversation a short time after D-day in 2008, I told OWH about this site and he said he had been here during his wife's first A and did not find it helpful. Of course, he never exposed the A and OW moved on to my H a few months later to start her third A that OWH knew about.
I'm already on medication for high blood pressure.
It seems as if there has been an evolution of MB advice on the forums. I think one improvement is the identification and "call out" of non-MB advice. Another great benefit are the compilation threads - all the information in one place. Bless those who put those helpful threads together.
You are right that there is a major sea change. Dr. H announced a few years ago that the purpose of the board was for Marriage Builders. To my amazement, some people were really mad about that. The troublemakers are gone now and the board management keeps people focused on Marriage Builders, thankfully! The atmosphere here is so much nicer!!
If I shunned everything that a wayward acted, sang or wrote, I would have a very limited amount of items I could entertain myself with.
I do avoid reading or watching things that glorify adultery though. If adultery is part of the story and the APs aren't living happily ever after, I can watch it now. There are some things I just can't watch because the actors are just too wayward. Brangelina for one(and 2 I guess).
Yes but but but but but butttttttttttttttttttttttt...Oh woe is me I'm a wayward and I hate myselffor being so stupid as to get bustedand I'm really really super-duper sorrythat I got caughtbut no one cares and Pep is a meany and told me to shutup!
Lazy butts who refuse to read the generous and FREE basic concepts before posting their whiny
"Oh woe is me I'm a wayward and I hate myself."
NO ONE CARES !!!!!!!!
Study the Plans then get to work. Or, shuddup already.
At least one such person today has fallen silent, and I hope that means they are reading and viewing.
Every poster here agrees, as a condition of membership, to read the Basic Concepts before posting. I wonder what the real compliance rate is with that requirement: how many people really do it.
We help people by motivating them to follow the plan that works. We have the plan that can give people real hope.
Yes but but but but but butttttttttttttttttttttttt...Oh woe is me I'm a wayward and I hate myselffor being so stupid as to get bustedand I'm really really super-duper sorrythat I got caughtbut no one cares and Pep is a meany and told me to shutup!
A noobie who has stated over & over he/she is more than WILLING to lie to his/her spouse for the rest of his/her life .... then wonders "Why?" we accuse him/her of lying to the forum !!!!
i never rant on here, just that one person.... is crawling under my skin so much. its like communicating with someone who has a serious using problem, not that i am an expert- just something familiar to a family member that was near death from it.
I wished the cross-eyed-crazy smiley had never left, I loved that thing!
You can always keep a folder of smilies you like on your PC and then upload them on tinypic and link to the with the IMG tag used to post images on the forum! Save a notepad file with the links to each smily on tinypic that you uploaded .. and number the links in notepad to match the name of your smileys. :P
Edit to add that you can just go to this link and copy and paste the IMG code from any smiley you want into the post. http://www.mysmilies.com
I notice we keep asking the same questions over and over but keep getting back word salad. Maybe we're the ones that are insane?
I have to chuckle when I see our members continue to bring up a question that the poster tries to avoid answering. They can run, but they can't hide...
i also still can type, but that takes the cake fake nails and all dont compare. i just need a spell check,
just very bizzare behavior and i still think there is more to not being able to type. its like communicating with a serious user, not that i have much experience- just one close- fully recovered 4.5 years!!!!
dear moderator- any chance of spell check in the near future? also i cannot use the smilies i have an error on the bootom right of my screen.
I must have a sick sense of humor. Nothing gets me more motivated than seeing EXPOSURE works it magic. I just love to hear the BS and how EXPOSURE literally blows up everything.
I can get through the entire day on an EXPOSURE HIGH!!!
I must have a sick sense of humor. Nothing gets me more motivated than seeing EXPOSURE works it magic. I just love to hear the BS and how EXPOSURE literally blows up everything.
I can get through the entire day on an EXPOSURE HIGH!!!
I must have a sick sense of humor. Nothing gets me more motivated than seeing EXPOSURE works it magic. I just love to hear the BS and how EXPOSURE literally blows up everything.
I can get through the entire day on an EXPOSURE HIGH!!!
I don't know that it's humor, necessarily, that I feel when I read about a good exposure. I feel a sense of satisfaction. It's a good feeling - like you studied hard for a tough test and you aced it. I want to hug the poster and high five him/her!
you should also take the satisfaction that you all did a good job in guiding people through what logically they cannot comprehend and goes against what they are feeling. feeling motivated by helping others is a great thing. thank you to all that plug away at what can seem like a lost cause!
...take the satisfaction that you all did a good job...feeling motivated by helping others is a great thing
And, of course, there is also the baser satisfaction explained in these lyrics from the musical Chicago:
I don't care for drivin' Packard cars Or smoking Long Buck Cigars No, no, not me All I care about is Doin' the guy in Who's pickin, on you Twistin' the wrist That's turnin' the screw All I care about is love!
OMG. I can't stop laffing, and HIDING. That is both funny AND scary.
I was actually coming here to rant a bit. Why is it that a newer poster, doesn't have a thread, or a siggy? How am I supposed to know who they are and where they are coming from? I need to go back and piece together a story from 200+ posts in 4 months? Lemme know who you are, at least through a siggy.
It's like watching a trainwreck. I'm in Plan A, but I'm not doing any of the things right and I am wondering why oh why isn't it working. I am letting my WS drive my marriage right into the ditch and I want you all to help me fix it. When I am off board, I am doing EVERYTHING that you guys advised me NOT to do. WHY OH WHY ISN'T IT WORKING?
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Guess I'm full o'rants tonight. Maybe I need to go to bed.
I don't ask questions because I'm idly curious. I ask questions to get a sense of the poster's sitch so I can help them. Yet, some of my questions totally ignored. Repeatedly.
I don't ask questions because I'm idly curious. I ask questions to get a sense of the poster's sitch so I can help them. Yet, some of my questions totally ignored. Repeatedly.
Please answer the questions, people!
Yes. I'm mildly annoyed to have my questions ignored, but even more affected to see posters shoot themselves in the foot by ignoring good advice/questions. If they would go through their threads and systematically answer each question asked (and often realize that a "no" answer indicates an important step they haven't taken and part of the reason why Marriage Builders is not working for them), they would be in such a better situation.
I think we can help each other by reinforcing to these posters the importance of answering each other's questions, i.e., "OP, did you see maritalbliss's questions? I think it would be very helpful for you to answer those." Moving on and escalating to "OP, I don't think we can help you. maritalbliss has asked you some very important questions, and three other posters have suggested that you answer them, but you've ignored us. We can't help you if you don't get us the answers we need. You are being given very important advice which you are ignoring. This is part of why things are not working out for you."
Time and the healing of wounds have a strange way of making you look at things from a differnt perpective.
After I re-read my threads... and read several others... I was thinking. (Can you smell the rubber burning? LOL) I could see the frustration of some of the vets as they were trying to help me. I can see that same frustration in several of the Newbie threads now.
I was thinking about the things I did wrong and the things I did right executing my plan A and my plan B. It got me thinking... �how can I relate that to other people on the board so they can learn from my mistakes?�
Bottom line: I was thinking about starting a thread that everyone could contribute to, stating things they�ve done (or things that other have done) right and wrong in executing plan A and B.
Help for newbies... Learn from our mistakes... what not to do... Don't do that ~ Do this...
Whaddya think? Any brainstorming idea�s for a title or a post?
Time and the healing of wounds have a strange way of making you look at things from a differnt perpective.
After I re-read my threads... and read several others... I was thinking. (Can you smell the rubber burning? LOL) I could see the frustration of some of the vets as they were trying to help me. I can see that same frustration in several of the Newbie threads now.
I was thinking about the things I did wrong and the things I did right executing my plan A and my plan B. It got me thinking... �how can I relate that to other people on the board so they can learn from my mistakes?�
Bottom line: I was thinking about starting a thread that everyone could contribute to, stating things they�ve done (or things that other have done) right and wrong in executing plan A and B.
Help for newbies... Learn from our mistakes... what not to do... Don't do that ~ Do this...
Whaddya think? Any brainstorming idea�s for a title or a post?
Sometimes things look wrong or as mistakes in hindsight but if you change the outcome (like your WW repents and recommits to the marriage) then such mistakes aren't as apparent or regretted or really mistakes at all (Plan A, for example, would/could look like a complete mistake and waste of time to many divorced persons who have a tendency to then believe that NOTHING could have ever changed their spouse and that's the way it is in any situation they THINK resembles theres)
It gets tough....in that I haven't experienced your outcome and you haven't experienced mine. I TRY to give advice and give hope for as long as the betrayed spouse needs it. Divorced posters, having experienced that prolonged pain have a tendency to want to alleviate the posters pain by getting them to cut bait a bit earlier. IMO, the outcome will take care of itself....teach then to do what they can to effect the outcome to the extent possible and guide them through the process towards divorce or reconciliation/rebuilding in time.
Most importantly...we've got to remember that "WE" are not the experts. Dr. Harley is. Our experience, though relevant, is still only a sample size of ONE so it's relevancy is limited.
Perhaps the biggest mistake...as much as we want to help...would be advising and trying to find shortcuts. For example....telling a BH to give an ultimatum he's not prepared to enforce or ready/capable of delivering...YET. It may be the best advice but if they are ready...it's a wasted post.
After I re-read my threads... and read several others... I was thinking. (Can you smell the rubber burning? LOL) I could see the frustration of some of the vets as they were trying to help me. I can see that same frustration in several of the Newbie threads now.
MB is a process. Some people are faster to process. Some situations are more accessible to MB process. It depends on where they start.
Quote
I was thinking about the things I did wrong and the things I did right executing my plan A and my plan B. It got me thinking... �how can I relate that to other people on the board so they can learn from my mistakes?�
Bottom line: I was thinking about starting a thread that everyone could contribute to, stating things they�ve done (or things that other have done) right and wrong in executing plan A and B.
Help for newbies... Learn from our mistakes... what not to do... Don't do that ~ Do this...
Whaddya think? Any brainstorming idea�s for a title or a post?
Go for it. Sounds like a lively conversation, for sure.
Divorced posters, having experienced that prolonged pain have a tendency to want to alleviate the posters pain by getting them to cut bait a bit earlier. IMO, the outcome will take care of itself....teach then to do what they can to effect the outcome to the extent possible and guide them through the process towards divorce or reconciliation/rebuilding in time.
Yes, and I don't fault them for that. I understand it. I also understand how some BSs(ahem, not mentioning any names, ME), just aren't ready to consider the big D. Plan A and Plan B helped get me closer and helps me feel like I have earned my way out. I did ALL that I could. If it ends in a D, then it wasn't because of something I did or didn't do to try to save it. Ya know?
People come here in various states of disarray. At times, they arrive with thinking so disorganized from trauma that they can barely function.
When a poster says;
"I am distraught" ............ BELIEVE IT. Don't IGNORE it.
That poster is feeling UNglued.
I need to remember to post to the "distraught" keeping in mind what being in that condition means. Lest we forget what it actually FEELS like when we are distraught. We can't follow logic. We can't remember ordinary things. We entertain dark thoughts. We self doubt to the brink of self hatred.
I've recently found myself posting unkindly and without empathy to someone who is just starting to pull out of "distraught". Not a proud moment for me.
Sometimes, being 16 years into recovery is a disadvantage.
Sympathy tells us to wallow with them. Empathy tells us to help them find the glue.
When the pit of despair that someone is trapped in is due to the destruction of a marriage, Marriage Builders is the glue. Recover your marriage, or recover yourself to a marriage-minded position.
When a person presents with a blood glucose level up in the treetops, it's dumb to do the diabetic teaching until they return to Earth. Same thing here. There is something to say for timing.
Calling a distraught Noobie with fewer than 5 posts under his belt names is counterproductive and is probably backlash from some other situation. Inappropriate for sure.
Here is my issue; the best I feel that I can offer to someone anonymously through a computer screen, if they are into it REALLY deep is; get help. Get help now!
"But, isn't that what I'm here for?"
Yes, yes it is. But, the setting is limited by time and space.
Go somewhere, find someone. Get. Help.
This is one reason, in adultery cases, why exposure is key; you need that flesh and blood, real time support.
Orrr... We could be better at letting people brain-dump. Some people just want to be heard (respectful request that brain-dumpers please label their neuro-trash)
Orrr... We could be better at letting people brain-dump. Some people just want to be heard (respectful request that brain-dumpers please label their neuro-trash)
I am not talking about letting people brain dump. I am talking about fresh off the boat noobies in PAIN. Maybe a better medical analogy. Just between us
A patient arrives in an asthmatic state. Not quite crisis, but close. What ya gonna do first? Bring out the educational pamphlets? Yell at them for being non-compliant as they cough and gasp for air? No, of course not. You get them closer to baseline before you lecture them about smoking, or using their prevention inhaler regularly.
Why? Because people in crisis cannot assimilate new information very well. You know that. I know that. I'm reminding myself and all of us smarty-pants MBers.
Truthfully, HHH, I'm sort of close to 12 angry men myself. I'm steroid stupid and not happy about it. Soon, this will all be behind me. Have patience with me. I'm in a state of my own.
How about a more direct analogy; someone arrives with a horrible arm fracture, and in pain.
In this instance, you would more than likely treat the pain before setting the bone.
Here's where we disconnect; you are viewing bringing the principals forward to patient Ed., whereas I view it as the actual treatment.
Now possible agreement; you ain't getting very close with a needle to a flailing patient. They first need to calm down. It doesn't mean the pain and panic is gone, it means they will remain calm and quiet enough to receive treatment.
The problem; getting to the state of calm.
The approach is not unilateral. Some respond to soft and gentle, some respond to firm.
Best practice; start with gentle.
Risk; will power is a limited resource. If it requires will power to approach gently, wait and allow those who can do so, do so. When firm is your thing, and firm is required, then step in - save your will power for efficiency.
And, Pep, I appreciate what you have been doing lately. We all need a good mamma-smack once in a while!
I've recently found myself posting unkindly and without empathy to someone who is just starting to pull out of "distraught". Not a proud moment for me.
Sometimes, being 16 years into recovery is a disadvantage.
Dearest Pep, your words needed to be repeated. I've done the same, in a brisk and sanitary effort to cut to the chase and get that new poster all squared away, post haste.
It's not that I'm UNempathetic. It's that I still remember those horrid early days, and I want to take that away from the poster if I can do so at all. It's that I've seen the movie. I know some things that may well affect the ending, so let's just get there. KWIM? But you're right - it IS a process.
Here goes a kinder, gentler maritalbliss, off to greet a new posting day...
Growing a spine is tough, tedious, intentional and painful. And we have to do it in the face of betrayal, which typically weakens us.
When we forget what it was to live without a spine, and how hard it was for us to grow our own, we lose our compassion and have the potential to be just one more bully in the life of a frightened betrayed spouse.
Of course, recalling the pain of living without a spine adds to the intensity of our conviction to get someone through that process post-haste.
I remember the countless numbers of spineless women who eventually grew one - to name one or two is to minimize the impact for the legions of those transformed. But lest we forget that those successful ones took sometimes months and years to grow that backbone, and try to help someone grow one in days instead, that's where the potential to help is lost.
Pep - I really appreciated what you wrote yesterday. It reminds me of one of my favorite songs: Words and Music by Micheal McLean
Quote
Like a gentle wind can blow the clouds from the sky, Like a gentle touch can ease the pain of goodbye, Like a gentle smile embraces empty souls in lonely places, We should be more gentle with ourselves.
Like the friend who gently builds us up when we're down, Like a gentle kiss can turn our world all around, We've been hurt by others often, We've forgiven and forgotten, We should be more gentle with ourselves.
Life can be hard but we need not be so hard on ourselves, If we will see
Like the Shepherd leads his flock with gentle commands. With his gentle voice that only hearts understand. One thing we can know for certain, He has borne the awful burdens so we can be more gentle with ourselves.
One thing that I know for certain: He will bear my every burden, So I can be gentle with myself.
I know our intentions are to help. Otherwise we would not be here. Thanks for your understanding and encouragement and guidance.
Primum non nocere
Quote
Think for a moment about what it means to feel right. It means that you think that your beliefs just perfectly reflect reality. And when you feel that way, you've got a problem to solve, which is, how are you going to explain all of those people who disagree with you? ...most of us explain those people the same way, by resorting to a series of unfortunate assumptions. The first thing we usually do ...is we just assume they're ignorant. They don't have access to the same information that we do, and when we generously share that information with them, they're going to see the light... When that doesn't work... then we move on to a second assumption, which is that they're idiots. ...when that doesn't work ... [we assume] they know the truth, and they are deliberately distorting it for their own malevolent purposes. So this is a catastrophe.
People come here in various states of disarray. At times, they arrive with thinking so disorganized from trauma that they can barely function.
When a poster says;
"I am distraught" ............ BELIEVE IT. Don't IGNORE it.
That poster is feeling UNglued.
I need to remember to post to the "distraught" keeping in mind what being in that condition means. Lest we forget what it actually FEELS like when we are distraught. We can't follow logic. We can't remember ordinary things. We entertain dark thoughts. We self doubt to the brink of self hatred.
I've recently found myself posting unkindly and without empathy to someone who is just starting to pull out of "distraught". Not a proud moment for me.
Sometimes, being 16 years into recovery is a disadvantage.
I need to remember this. I did the same thing to SW1963 a couple of days ago and justified it by telling myself I was just trying to snap him into action.
I was wrong thinking that way. Thanks for kick, Pep.
Wanting to be "the exception to the rule" is human nature, I guess. Maybe it's part of Western culture? I dunno.
If a sign reads:
"No Dogs Allowed"
..... you can bet your bottom dollar that some day, someone WILL decide the rule does not apply to THEM.
That person will bring their dog where it does not belong and then say ....
"But, it's only a small dog."
By-the-way ..... my post is not about dogs. Large or small. My post/mini-rant is about people failing to follow the rules of society because they are so special and their circumstances are also so special.
20 items in the "10 items or less" isle? "They're inexpensive items." "They're all small items."
"All dogs must be on a leash." "My dog does not need to be leashed. He's well trained."
I don't think it's a Western thing...I think it's a global/human thing.
I see this all the time when I'm dropping off DS8 at his school. The options for a child to get in the door at school are:
bus
child walks to school
parent drives child to school and uses designated drop-off lanes
parent drives child to school, parks in parking lot, and walks child to crosswalk
That's it. They specifically ask people to use the crosswalks so kids aren't ducking in and out of the drop-off line. They ask people to not drop off in the parking lot because it inhibits traffic flow and is dangerous for the children. Yet what do I see every morning?
- parents not parking their cars but dropping off the kids in the parking lot - parents and kids whizzing in and out of the drop-off line - parents parking in the handicapped space to drop off their kids because it's close to the door
My dad was a disabled veteran with a broken back and a bum knee, so whenever I see someone using a handicapped spot that shouldn't be there I get irate. After dropping off my son I'll stop people from going in the handicapped spots. A lot of times people will try to ignore me...if they don't, they sometimes get irate with me ("how dare you call me on doing something illegal!"), or make excuses ("I didn't get out of the car so it doesn't count", "all the spots are empty anyway", "it was just for a moment").
A lot (not all) of the people I see doing this are Indian/Arabic/Asian. Sadly, it seems self-importance and feeling above the rules is a universal trait
"They have had very little contact and Heidi wants to keep it this way," the source says. "She feels less stressed out now and feels it's best to be away from Seal, so she doesn't get confused about her feelings."
You think there might be some regret down the line ... stupid celebrities
Re: ten items or less violators - Not sure how this is germaine to our mission here, but thought I'd chip in.
NG did not have a good day Tuesday. On a line in a discount store, with 6 items got on the 12-or-less line, and ended up behind the dimmest bulb on the planet, 15/16 items, disputed every price that rang up, and THREE times, dropped her cash while getting it together to hand to the minimum-wage dingbat sales girl. (Wait for it, it's coming.)
Finally, I guess my displeasure showed through, and in a fairly loud voice, said salesgirl upbraided ME, saying "Oh, don't look so angry!" in front of all other shoppers. (Emphasis added to point out I hadn't said jack-doody!)
Calmly, I opened the bottle of salad oil I had planned to buy, and while upturning the contents on her merchandise belt, in the same volume of speaking, said, "*** you, **edit**I then walked out of the store.
Re: ten items or less violators - Not sure how this is germaine to our mission here, but thought I'd chip in.
NG did not have a good day Tuesday. On a line in a discount store, with 6 items got on the 12-or-less line, and ended up behind the dimmest bulb on the planet, 15/16 items, disputed every price that rang up, and THREE times, dropped her cash while getting it together to hand to the minimum-wage dingbat sales girl. (Wait for it, it's coming.)
Finally, I guess my displeasure showed through, and in a fairly loud voice, said salesgirl upbraided ME, saying "Oh, don't look so angry!" in front of all other shoppers. (Emphasis added to point out I hadn't said jack-doody!)
Calmly, I opened the bottle of salad oil I had planned to buy, and while upturning the contents on her merchandise belt, in the same volume of speaking, said, "**edit**" you, "**edit**"!" I then walked out of the store.
And I had been so good recently......
AS one of those "minimum-wage dingbat sales girl"'s I will remind you that SHE also doesn't appreciate these types of people but it is her JOB to tolerate them, and the types who act like YOU do. You sure didn't make HER day any better. I have had the displeasure to serve people who forgot that I was a human being who deserved some measure of respect from them. And after getting to actually read what you said, in the censored parts, I hope that you look back on what you did with a tiny bit of shame, because who acted more the fool in that situation?
Remember, every single one of those people who work in dead end minimum wage jobs do not CHOOSE to be there, but circumstance has brought them there, and they deserve RESPECT, not ABUSE.
Oh and FTR, I actually work at the return desk of a MAJOR retailer. I get my fair share of "joyous" customers. And every single one of them are greeted with a smile, and told to have a good day, even if I don't want to do it, because it's my JOB.
I have done some over-the-phone customer service, but most was face-to-face in a brick-and-mortar grocery store. 10 years worth. If I completely have it my way, I will never work retail again.
If you were to upbraid me vocally and publicly for my private emotions, not expressed feelings, you would get every bit of the same response. I have no need of unsolicited "behavioral modification" from a 19-year-old with eyebrow and lip piercings.
Had she, as you probably would have, instead empathized with my (silent, unexpressed) frustration, she would have earned my appreciation, not my contempt. That's HER job, right?
Good one, Scotty, you actually had me going for a moment!
I should have realized that you could never behave so crassly, so arrogantly, with as much unjustified entitlement as the airhead I documented above! You were obviously just pulling my leg, weren't you?
Having been a cashier myself, it is hard to empathize with or appreciate anyone when you have been yelled at for not breaking large bills for 97 cent purchases, yelled at because no, you cannot make ANY change...
...and screamed at because you checked a blueberry box for mold and took too long doing it.
That was probably her misguided attempt to cheer herself (or you?) up in a satirical way.
HER job is customer service for ALL of her customers. But, she can't make everyone happy. I can not understand your response to her however. I can not accept that you would be so blatantly disrespectful. And then, while you are making your story known here, you not only disrespected her, but people who have jobs like her. That was uncalled for.
While I can admit that not everyone I work with are especially bright, there are many many others who are. We are all there for a reason, and we all need to eat. Some of the people I work with are retired nurses, bank execs, auto parts manufacturers, etc. You can't judge what is behind that person. Remember, there was a HUGE economic slump and MANY people have had to "resort" to these types of jobs. In my case, my job was taken as a way to get extra money, and I craved adult conversation after being a SAHM for 4 years. Now, it has been a blessing, as I was able to change my schedule to meet my needs when my WH left me to live with OW. THink twice next time that you feel the "need" to berate a lowly employee and remember that she is someone's daughter, sister, wife, or mother. How would you like someone else to treat your family member?
And if we want to get into a rant about customers, I could give you a daily list. Like the "Big man" who thought it was funny to threaten a 20 year old girl who said she couldn't exchange something, so he threatened her, and then taunted her when I exchanged it for him. She actually was so frightened that she cried and was shaking. That happened yesterday, but there are many like it, and some much worse.
Re: ten items or less violators - Not sure how this is germaine to our mission here, but thought I'd chip in.
NG did not have a good day Tuesday. On a line in a discount store, with 6 items got on the 12-or-less line, and ended up behind the dimmest bulb on the planet, 15/16 items, disputed every price that rang up, and THREE times, dropped her cash while getting it together to hand to the minimum-wage dingbat sales girl. (Wait for it, it's coming.)
Finally, I guess my displeasure showed through, and in a fairly loud voice, said salesgirl upbraided ME, saying "Oh, don't look so angry!" in front of all other shoppers. (Emphasis added to point out I hadn't said jack-doody!)
Calmly, I opened the bottle of salad oil I had planned to buy, and while upturning the contents on her merchandise belt, in the same volume of speaking, said, "**edit** you, "**edit**" I then walked out of the store.
And I had been so good recently......
When I first read this I though it was funny but then I started thinking about it and felt bad for being insensitive. The RIGHT thing to do would have been to set the oil down, walk away, and then file a complaint for her inappropriate comment (or chalk it up to she was having a bad day). Why on earth would she say something like that without provocation? Sorry NG, but you were just as wrong as she was, if not worse, for the name-calling. No one deserves that kind of abuse.
And then, while you are making your story known here, you not only disrespected her, but people who have jobs like her.
Hooey! And I'll add "Sophistry!", as you're making this up as you go along! If you had said:
And then, while you are making your story known here, you not only disrespected her, but people who act as judgmental and presumptive as she did.
we would absolutely agree. My problems with the YOUNG LADY in question only began when she insulted ME, or does that not yet come through in the several retellings of this story?
(If any colleagues here are of the inclination to behave as she did, you needn't admit it, but you'll get no apology!)
Too many people would have cowed before her act; I chose not to! Too many gutless get-alongs would have said, "I dare not stand up for my own RIGHTS, so I'll say/do nothing and let it go!" I wonder which "behavior modification" was more fruitful: Hers on me, or mine on her (assuming there was any truth in what she explained about what happened to her manager).
Had she, as you probably would have, instead empathized with my (silent, unexpressed) frustration, she would have earned my appreciation, not my contempt. That's HER job, right?
Compare and contrast:
Complaint: I'd like to speak to your manager please. Sir, I feel this cashier is being very disrespectful to me and these other customers. We are waiting here in a very frustrating situation, and she is lecturing me about my attitude.
Angry outburst: **edit** YOU, YOU **edit**! {vandalizes property}
I think you get this, from your comment that you "had been doing so well." But I'm not sure everybody sees that you do.
I certainly can't be one to cast stones myself, but I can say that the feeling of pride I get for keeping my temper in check in public in frustrating situations more than compensates for all the rewards I got previously for great displays of temper.
Newton Hightower's list of behaviors to abstain from in order to control anger lists "telling war stories." I can't cast stones there, either.
we would absolutely agree. My problems with the YOUNG LADY in question only began when she insulted ME, or does that not yet come through in the several retellings of this story?
I used to complain frequently to my wife, my MB coach, and people here who took their personal time to help me privately that my angry behavior toward Prisca only began when she was disrespectful to me, or abused me, or engaged in independent behavior, or picked a fight with me, etc.
Do two wrongs make a right?
If I return evil for evil, what have I done to my own character?
She was absolutely inexcusable in what she said to you.
Hightower also lists swearing as a behavior that must be abstained from in order to eliminate the addiction to anger.
I can't cast stones there, either.
In my previous post, I asked if I commit an act of evil what that does to my character. Consider also the documented effects that swearing has on the human brain. The brain and the bloodstream experience effects during swearing that are documented if you want to research; these same effects do not occur when the same person says something like "Golly gee, that smarts!"
Adrenaline is addictive. Runners get addicted to it, many other people get addicted to it.
Oh and FTR, I actually work at the return desk of a MAJOR retailer. I get my fair share of "joyous" customers. And every single one of them are greeted with a smile, and told to have a good day, even if I don't want to do it, because it's my JOB.
I handle escalated billing issues for a major insurer. Sometimes I have to talk to customers, it is not the highlight of my day. Many of them are respectful, kind, and calm. The others behave other ways and I have no desire to actually help them get what they want. But, I still have to help them.
NG, you believe that her pointing out your body language was INSULTING to you? Then you did WHAT? You took it more than one step HIGHER. DO I think that she did the right thing? No. Are you certain that she wasn't trying to diffuse your anger by making a joke?
I have been a cashier with a ginormous line. I hear the comments about how long the people have to wait. About how there should be more cashiers, etc. I agree with them, but I need to watch my tongue because I could be fired for making disparaging remarks about the company. Do they think I want to be so swamped that I can't even think straight? Do they think that I want to be so busy that my breaks are sometimes late, if not missed altogether? I do my best, but when someone believes that they are better than me, just because they stand on the other side of the counter, that irks me. I've actually had people say, "I am obviously more intelligent than you." Really? What makes them think that? I attended a highly acclaimed engineering program at a top university, why does he believe that he is more intelligent than I? Purely the fact that my life brought me to the service side of the counter?
Look back at how you explained the whole story. YOU WERE angry. Do you think that the saleswoman was not also annoyed by that customer? And then you went even more over the top. I think you should examine your actions more closely and see where you could have improved the situation.
NG, you behaved horribly and should have been charged with destruction of property. What you did was criminal.
I was in my regular grocery store the other day and had HORRIBLE service from a cashier I had never met before (it's been my regular shop for 12+ years). Frowns, rolling eyes, being rough with my produce, THROWING items down to the bagging area. I complained to her manager, saying I didn't know if she was having an especially rough day, but that I was accustomed to great service in his store and this was an aberration.
I am quite sure it was handled much more appropriately than if I had, say, poured oil all over the company equipment.
If they don't press charges for your destruction of their property, I hope they ban you from their store.
That was vile and disgusting, why would you think you were in the right??? There is nothing anyone can do to deserve what you said, and you should hold yourself to a higher standard, NG. Why would you ever say that to anyone?
I wish that you suffer the consequences of your actions, so you may learn and grow and do better in the future.
You are planning to drop in to apologize for your obnoxious behavior? And make amends? Or slop through like a wayward, victorious (and pleased, very pleased) in your destruction?
Flaunting it? And reporting back here that NO, we were wrong and you were right to wrought physical destruction and verbal abuse on that establishment and its employees?
You are planning to drop in to apologize for your obnoxious behavior? And make amends? Or slop through like a wayward, victorious (and pleased, very pleased) in your destruction?
Shame on you, CWMI, for your unconscionable use of that most-despised pejorative on this site.
Sorry, folks, this conversation is over. I'd like to respond to this **edit** in more colorful language, but the mods would no doubt be notified post-haste.
You are planning to drop in to apologize for your obnoxious behavior? And make amends? Or slop through like a wayward, victorious (and pleased, very pleased) in your destruction?
Shame on you, CWMI, for your unconscionable use of that most-despised pejorative on this site.
Sorry, folks, this conversation is over. I'd like to respond to this **edit** in more colorful language, but the mods would no doubt be notified post-haste.
Hmm, wonder where we've heard that kind of righteous indignation before?
Again, discussion of this particular topic is over. While this is a "rant" thread, any further personal attacks will not be tolerated. Rants are acceptable, personal attacks are not. Let's move on people. Thank you for your cooperation.
This conversation is over. Any further personal attacks will not be tolerated.
I might 'attack' myself.
Kids .... It's coming. My GRAND OPENING !!!!!!
In 5 short weeks. I will be less than I am today. I'm nervous. I'm slightly crazy. I'm happy/sad.
I am ready to Plan D my large intestine completely.
Hand-holding is allowed. Prayers gratefully accepted. I politely ask that no one send me any more 'remedies'. 40 years ... I've tried just about everything.
If you 'have the guts' .....
Laparoscopic ileostomy followed by a J-pouch some weeks later
Well, Pep, as you know, I've survived Prostate Cancer and a radical prostatectomy at the relatively young age of 53.
It was NOT enjoyable learning that my body betrayed me so egregiously and dangerously. What only one other person knows is that I was "dead set" (interesting term, that!) against having the operation until my bride one morning, as she left for work, kissed me and said "You know, I've only had you for 34 years, and that's not enough."
So, I'll give you the same chat, friend, "Those of us here, and those who have you in person, are grateful that you'll have the opportunity to have a better life after the operation."
A week, huh? I'll endeavour not to post anything that will "overstimulate" your system between now and then.
In 5 short weeks. I will be less than I am today. I'm nervous. I'm slightly crazy. I'm happy/sad.
I am ready to Plan D my large intestine completely.
Oh, my dear Pep. I just read this.
I'm not going to spoon-feed any pap to you because I know you gave that up for Lent at about the age of two , but I will tell you that God knows the scrapper that you are and that you are very much up to what He has to deal out. As do we. (I can hear Him now: "Dang, she's a feisty wench!" )
Humour in the face of adversity, a sign of marvelous strength. Something I have come to love and respect in Mrs Pepperband. Luvs ya TONNES. Take care of yourself, I will it.
Threads that go round and round and end up exactly where they started. Defensive posters who know best and don't like to hear they are not following MB principles.
Threads that go round and round and end up exactly where they started. Defensive posters who know best and don't like to hear they are not following MB principles.
Rant off
That reminds me of a joke...
Pete and Re-Pete were sitting on a fence. Pete fell off. Who was left?
Oh Northwood, my Dad used to tell that one. He always had the silliest jokes and the best time telling them. Thanks for reminding me. He died in 1990 and I still miss those silly jokes.
Okay, maybe this isn't a rant. Maybe it's a 'weep'? I'm sad for posters who have come here and didn't stick with Dr. H's plan. I'm sad that posters have come here and then were swayed away by other internet websites that were "all hat and no cattle," promising much but delivering little (and there are plenty of those ) I'm sad that posters leave here and commiserate with other posters on other websites, ending all activity involved in saving their marriage, while they are distracted by gazing at their own navel, wallowing over immaterial childhood issues to the encouragement of their new online 'BFF's'.
I am sick to death of stumbling over other websites that try to disparage Dr. H's advice. When followed correctly, it works. YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW IT CORRECTLY. And it's embarrassingly simple, which makes it perfect for two spouses who want a great marriage.
But I am heartened by the multitude of positive comments that I find online about Dr. H's concepts. I am heartened by having spoken to him personally and finding him to be a wonderful person.
So anyway, like I said, this isn't a rant. It's a statement of personal fact.
They have been a bit few and far between, but I've read a few other marriage specialists/psycholigsts mention Dr. Harley's work - one giving a shining nod to PoJA (recommending it, in fact).
Though, I stick to blogs or articles, and stay away from other forums.
They have been a bit few and far between, but I've read a few other marriage specialists/psycholigsts mention Dr. Harley's work - one giving a shining nod to PoJA (recommending it, in fact).
Though, I stick to blogs or articles, and stay away from other forums.
I always knew you were a wise person.
Now, don't get all crazy, thinking you're all that, LOL.
Humour in the face of adversity, a sign of marvelous strength. Something I have come to love and respect in Mrs Pepperband. Luvs ya TONNES. Take care of yourself, I will it.
I've got to wonder if it is a professional adaptation?
Professionally a toddler myself, but a family full... and the humor always rolls... and at times seems... twisted?
Recieved a man for end-of-life last night... someone facing death, and he still had the resolve not only to smile, but to joke.
I am constantly humbled by the strength of the human spirit through endless adersities, tragedies, suffering, and torment.
The moment I knew I was becoming myself again was when I started to be able to joke about things again. If I don't have humour, I have nothing. It's the positive outlook thing, and all that.
I joke so often, sometimes people don't know when I am being serious. I like it that way. It makes life more interesting.
Now, what happened to all the ranting around this place?
It's easier to sit around and complain than to do the work.
Testify! "I lectured her about how horrible she is, why won't she change?" "I berate him constantly about his behavior, why won't he change?"
Well... maybe you should try a different approach...
It's even more frustrating when you're trying to help posters with MB principles and either 1)they really don't want to make their marriage better they just want to complain about their horrible spouse because after all they've been around in a horrible marriage for years and what does Dr. Harley know? Then they have the audacity to post to other posters "their way" 2)they have every excuse in the book why MB won't work. So why did you come here?
Do we have to teach you foreigners everything?? We Americans are very WORLDLY and, as such, all know about EYE-talian genoa salami. We do know a thing or two about a thing or two!
I feel really sorry for the next publix deli man who fills my order. When he says, "And how would you like that, ma'am?" it is going to take all my power not to say, "Thick. And unslapped, please."
Between Mel's salami, and her driving skills, I am getting ideas about our next date night. To the supermarket. "Can I have two full breasts, please?" "Would this be a good choice for fish tacos?" "I love a good poundcake. Do you have some fresh poundcake?" "Excuse me, where can I find wieners?"
I feel really sorry for the next publix deli man who fills my order. When he says, "And how would you like that, ma'am?" it is going to take all my power not to say, "Thick. And unslapped, please."
Seriously, when I read that post about slapping the salami, I laughed so hard there were tears rolling down my face. I am going to have to avoid the deli counter altogether now.
Thanks to certain posters who will remain nameless, but have been all over multiple threads today, I came home this afternoon, and Prisca laughs at every other sentence out of my mouth, because she sees it as a double entendre!
Seriously, when I read that post about slapping the salami, I laughed so hard there were tears rolling down my face. I am going to have to avoid the deli counter altogether now.
Seriously, when I read that post about slapping the salami, I laughed so hard there were tears rolling down my face. I am going to have to avoid the deli counter altogether now.
My list of things to avoid is getting larger......oh thanks....deli dept, bed bath and beyond, driving..........it sounds like walmart is still safe....well for now...(all is getting filed in the future box however )
My list of things to avoid is getting larger......oh thanks....deli dept, bed bath and beyond, driving..........it sounds like walmart is still safe....well for now...(all is getting filed in the future box however )
Interesting thread. I can't believe I've never ventured outside of SAA and Recovery before today.... WOW...look what I was missing!!!
That's what happens when you're on a limited time budget. BUT, since I'm taking the summer off from classes, I guess I get to get out of the box more often!
Stuck waiting, she can remove her wall so no one can post ANYTHING to her. She COULD make her profile more secure. Is there a reason she isn't?
Having an easily accessible profile is an important part of building her career. Fans post things, she posts back, new fans search her out to get a look at the music, photos, videos etc.
There are options, yes. But for a musician, the usual "get a new job" mantra won't work.
Only because they are unwilling to actually get a new job and do something else.
Aw, shoot, it's a rant thread, so I don't know why I edited my post three times. Here's the original:
Only because they are unwilling to actually get a new job.
The question is: is being a musician more important to them than their marriage?
I love what I do, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat if my wife wanted me to. She is far more important to me.
I don't know why it became culturally acceptable to rank music as a special class of career that people are "born into," but our culture accepts a lot of strange ideas.
The odds of success as a musician are very, very low. In my opinion all of this career building with Facebook and such is essentially like playing the lottery. If a musician doesn't have some kind of a contract by a certain point in their lives, they need to face reality and give it up and do something else. And if their career is hurting their marriage, they need to do that sooner rather than later.
Oh, no, I disagreed with some sacred cow ideas that musicians think about themselves.
It's relatively easier for me to drop my job and get a new one in my chosen field, or a new one, if I wanted to... for a musician, it's much harder to find a new job in their current field.
I think the problem is that the constraint of "in the current field" is an irrational constraint.
Quote
If I asked my wife to choose between her marriage and music--and I'm sure many other musicians would do the same--she would take the music. If she didn't, she would resent me forever for forcing her to choose. That is not a recipe for a happy marriage. If she asked me to choose between her and IT, obviously it's an easy choice for me. But if she asked me to choose between her and my left leg, that'd be tougher.
What you are describing is not a recipe for a happy marriage. It's a deification and idolatry of music.
I sing, play guitar, and do all kinds of stuff with music. It doesn't have to be my career.
ITA with you--if you have no contract by a certain point, you ought to get a new job. Post videos on Youtube if you must continue, more than one musician got their start there. Albeit mostly younger ones, but one could still make money from pageviews alone.
Yesterday in church, part of the message was about the worship of "me-ism". Idolatry of self.
Speaking of "me-isms", I just watched the reality series "Bridezilla" on Netflixs (I was reaaaallly bored). That show should be banned! If impressionable young teens/women are watching it, or most of the reality shows these days for that matter, they are being trained well on how to be a future WW. It's all about me, me, me and I don't care what it takes or who I hurt to make me happy.
Ignorant counselors who take people's money and can't figure out the problem.
I have had no counseling education, but I can smell an affair a mile away. And when affairs are identified, the counselors have no clue what to do about it.
Most people never think about you at all, much less log in just to see what you're ***EDIT***. Talking about.
And, I am in favor of boating licenses to make sure all boaters know the Rules of the Road. Another tragedy on our lake by inexperienced rent-a-boaters, this one involving Usher's stepson, maybe GA will finally change the law. I hope so. Stupid boaters suck.
Ignorant counselors who take people's money and can't figure have no intention of figuring out the problem.
I have had no counseling education, but I can smell an affair a mile away. And when affairs are identified, the counselors have no clue what to do about it.
Rant off.
AM
Just tweaking your post to rant about the thing that kills me about counselors. Their goal isn't to figure out the problem. Their goal is to repeat visits with their clients to discuss childhood issues and issues of 'self'. Neither which will help a marriage. Follow the money trail...
MB, I don't really think that people go into the counseling field with the idea that they are learning how to make money by people coming to them in perpetuity. Maybe, they turn out that way after practicing a few years.
More marriages than not suffer the devestation of an affair. If a couple seeks counseling for marital problems, it seems as affair should be the first thing ruled out. Yet, some (most) counselors can't spot one even if all the signs are there.
Some titles do not have actual educational and licensing restrictions. Certain types of counselors do in some states, and a few types of therapist (usually involving things like physical therapy etc).
People who are actually schooled in practical counseling and/or therapy, however, have a goal to END therapy. The entire point of it is to get the person up and going on their own in concert with a physician and/or psychiatrist if necessary.
Other therapists, like the one my XSIL started dating... no clue. He was a general contractor as his day job.
here in nz, basically anyone can hang out a shingle and start up a counselling business (told this by a counsellor!). no LMFC, no degree, nada. it pays to ask, if you're going that route, though i do agree it's a waste of time and money. when we were assigned a counsellor, ahem, "dispute resolutionist," by the court (6 freebies), i spent the first appointment grilling her, with WHs "how to find a counsellor" paperwork printed out.
Letty, I have never seen a MC in NZ I would recommend. I did find a M course that was good, but just just stuck to my IC, rather than bang my head in MC. Relationship services (TIC) is just another name for 'making good co-parents'
MB, I don't really think that people go into the counseling field with the idea that they are learning how to make money by people coming to them in perpetuity. Maybe, they turn out that way after practicing a few years.
More marriages than not suffer the devestation of an affair. If a couple seeks counseling for marital problems, it seems as affair should be the first thing ruled out. Yet, some (most) counselors can't spot one even if all the signs are there.
AM
I like to think that counselors choose to go into their field to help people. Funny how it doesn't turn out that way in the vast majority of cases that involve infidelity. Why discuss childhood issues? Why discuss whether or not a client has achieved their life goals? Addressing the affair is common sense. I cannot believe counselors do not know this. Nope. I believe they are trained and schooled in a very linear way, which makes no room for infidelity. The question is WHY?
Because most of the people who are doing the training have had/are having affairs???? Because there is a tendency to minimize the effects of affairs??? Because if a person has not lived through it, the devastation of affairs is not personal???
Because most counsellors are trained to look at a person's "reasons" for having an A.
Not the effects. Not the wayward's lies. A counsellor will buy the lies. What else do they have to go on, unless they are prepared to challenge the client and lose their patronage.
Make no mistake, a drug and alcohol counsellor, a marriage counsellor... they will usually ask the client WHY they are doing the behaviour they are doing.
And the justifications begin, because they are asking an addict.
Note, they do not ask the addict's family or friends. Now, there would be an intesting answer. In my experience, this avenue is usually only open when working with children. Once an adult, you get half the avenues of truth. And half the success.
One of the main things about marriage counselors is what they school themselves in is the study in "what went wrong" in failed marriages, taking the words of people who have had failed marriages and attempting to apply foggy logic to building a new marriage.
If I never successfully rebuilt the motor from a corvette, how the heck can I tell someone else how to do it successfully?
What sets Dr. Harley and a select few others apart is that they went out and looked what goes on in lifelong successful marriages. They asked people in lifelong, happy marriages how they did it.
You can't learn to play basketball like Michael Jordan by studying Dickey Simpkins.
Additionally, infidelity isn't something that is very well trained for counselors. Pouring through the academic journals last year I read a write-up about just that, and how these professionals don't have the studies to attempt to implement the normal approach of evidence-based practice. Instead, they are better off to rely on practice-based evidence for what works.
Thankfully we have several decades of practice-based evidence to work with here, and as new observations develop, Dr. Harley tailors the approach to what the evidence suggests (think about the addition to SAA on exposure).
The base of the program is based on sound psychology and it's practical application to marital relationships, with the addition to the study of successful marriages and evolving concepts based on the feedback from successful users of the program.
....... and nearly everything you could ever want to learn about it is freely available!
I challenge anyone to find a single marriage specialist out there other than Dr. Harley that has 99% of their program available completely free! I haven't seen one yet!
You can't learn to play basketball like Michael Jordan by studying Dickey Simpkins.
I don't even know who Dickey Simpkins is but this cracked me up!
Quote
I challenge anyone to find a single marriage specialist out there other than Dr. Harley that has 99% of their program available completely free! I haven't seen one yet!
Yet some say that Dr Harley controls the content of his forum only to make a buck!
The difference between Harley and everyone else is that Harley tracks his own progress and bases his program on what WORKS. If the concept doesn't work, he throws it out. When he first tried these concepts, he didn't charge people [in his practice] because he didn't know if they actually worked. Others don't know or care if their program works.
Those of us went through the MB course are asked to take surveys at various points in the course to test our progress. And if we are not progressing, our coach finds out why and changes our course. THAT is the difference between Harley and others.
You can't learn to play basketball like Michael Jordan by studying Dickey Simpkins.
I don't even know who Dickey Simpkins is but this cracked me up!
Quote
I challenge anyone to find a single marriage specialist out there other than Dr. Harley that has 99% of their program available completely free! I haven't seen one yet!
Yet some say that Dr Harley controls the content of his forum only to make a buck!
The difference between Harley and everyone else is that Harley tracks his own progress and bases his program on what WORKS. If the concept doesn't work, he throws it out. When he first tried these concepts, he didn't charge people [in his practice] because he didn't know if they actually worked. Others don't know or care if their program works.
Those of us went through the MB course are asked to take surveys at various points in the course to test our progress. And if we are not progressing, our coach finds out why and changes our course. THAT is the difference between Harley and others.
Of the other noted marriage specialists that I've researched, not a single one has as much as 1/4... heck 1/10 of their program online and available freely.
Also; Dickey Simpkins is regarded as one of the worst basketball players ever. Though he did ride Michael Jordan's coattails to a championship ring.
If I never successfully rebuilt the motor from a corvette, how the heck can I tell someone else how to do it successfully?
and that is why i only see female ob/gyns!
I hear ya. I was actually somewhat relieved that the only birth I had to attend in mother/baby clinicals was a C-section. The rest of the time msyelf and the only other male in the program sat in a back room on the unit watching videos.
Our Prof sent us in on a laproscopic cholychystecotmy, and the C-section came in after that. My classmate went home, but I stayed.
Did my part on 4 births (my 3 daughters, and a niece), that's good enough for me.
If any 80-year-old women decide to give birth, though, I'm screwed!
I always was too curious for my own good...I hear things like that and want to know how they work.
2 are for the surgical instruments, 1 for the camera, and one for pumping gas into the abdominal cavity to create working space... the 5th? Bah, can't remember.
It was a rather sci-fi experience, watching robot claws snip away at the attachments of the gallbladder to the liver, and then do little electrical zaps for cutting and cauterizing as well.
I got to sit in on 5 surgeries total in school; 2 tubals, 1 c-section, 1 tib/fib fracture reduction, and the chole. The chole was the most fun, as I could see the whole thing on the monitors.
That sounds completely awesome, but I'm not sure about something...
Why don't they just make one incision and be done with it? Or did they find that this was safer in the long run?
/medical newbie
Laproscopic incisions are small incisions. If you lined all of them up as one incision, it would still be dwarfed by the incision required for working room.
Recovery is faster, less chance for infection and/or complications post op.
Why do they come back and do that? Is it some kind of sick joke to "act" like they care? Why not stay away?
Some people like to play on both sides of the fence. They figure if one side fails them, they've always got the other.
It kind of reminds me of the mean girls I was in elementary school with. Sweet to your face, dagger in your back. I got to watch the karma bus in 8th grade though - my 'friend' came up and apologized to me for something she said to someone about me that was snarky and completely untrue. Here's the funny: I hadn't heard what she'd said before she apologized to me!
I obviously cut that friend off without a backward glance - who needs friends like that, right?
Sheesh is right. I don't recall mentioning anyone "specifically" in my rant above. However, as the saying goes... if the shoe fits... **shrug**
Yeah, I wondered about that. I didn't see you mention any names at all. Heck, your post could have been about anyone, or anything - it could have been something that had nothing to do with this site at all.
If I had a dollar for every post that said, "I wish I would have done EVERYTHING you said whan I was here XXX months ago", I would be spending my summers skiing in Patagonia.
If I had a dollar for every post that said, "I wish I would have done EVERYTHING you said whan I was here XXX months ago", I would be spending my summers skiing in Patagonia.
If I had a dollar for every post that said, "I wish I would have done EVERYTHING you said whan I was here XXX months ago", I would be spending my summers skiing in Patagonia.
I end up sitting on the edge of my chair cheering when I see posters exposing the affair. I sometimes wish I would fall out of my chair because we would have so many exposing instead of them being saddled by fear.
I checked the calendar and the full moon is still two days away. But, you would not know it from the tone of some of the recent posts. Definitely cranky people lately.
Is this the season for unrepentant waywards to come out of the woodwork and land on MB?
�Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins and loses one. Doesn�t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, �Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.� In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.� Luke 15: 8-10
Thanks, NG. I hope there is at least one who repents. Otherwise, I see quite a bit of limping and it seems as though evil is gaining, both in numbers and in strength.
I would venture a non-rigorous assessment, my friend, that we have had greater effect with WWs arriving here (even including those that bolt unredeemed) than we have with the flip-side of distraught, bereft, BHs who join us.
BV, XVY, DM, WAW (after a fashion) were able THIS YEAR to "snap out of it" and improve their situations; Cloudster is still "in play". I would grant you that putting LW and Lolita into the "current and probable future skanks" list would be fair, and disappointing, but compared to the discouraging number of recently successful BH stories, the WWs earning their "F"s here should make our efforts worthwhile.
It's not hard to understand why. In both cases, it is the WW that has the larger burden of change: Renounce the AP; admit their own guilt; commit to a new way of thinking/behaving. If the WW is here, she starts with two advantages: She is already suspecting that her situation must change; and she gets it from us (yeah, YOU) directly, without the filter of coming through her betrayed spouse, who hasn't the experience, and detachment, of the MB cadre.
That DOES make sense, NG. The WW often already KNOWS what must be done (or at least, a good part of what has to be done), and the BW or H, while having a vague inclination, often hasn't a clue.
I would venture a non-rigorous assessment, my friend, that we have had greater effect with WWs arriving here (even including those that bolt unredeemed) than we have with the flip-side of distraught, bereft, BHs who join us.
BV, XVY, DM, WAW (after a fashion) were able THIS YEAR to "snap out of it" and improve their situations; Cloudster is still "in play". I would grant you that putting LW and Lolita into the "current and probable future skanks" list would be fair, and disappointing, but compared to the discouraging number of recently successful BH stories, the WWs earning their "F"s here should make our efforts worthwhile.
It's not hard to understand why. In both cases, it is the WW that has the larger burden of change: Renounce the AP; admit their own guilt; commit to a new way of thinking/behaving. If the WW is here, she starts with two advantages: She is already suspecting that her situation must change; and she gets it from us (yeah, YOU) directly, without the filter of coming through her betrayed spouse, who hasn't the experience, and detachment, of the MB cadre.
I agree. I almost never post to BH's because it frustrates me when they do nothing. I have no problem delivering a pointed message to a current, unrepentent wayward. I do find them annoying though.
Like ArmyMama, I have very low tolerance for unrepentant cheaters, but will always go out of my way to help someone who is really serious. I attribute my tolerance to my concern for the BS, minimal as it may be. I think about how it would benefit them if the WS got on the straight and narrow.
However, I am very intolerant of those who aren't willing to do the right thing. They can hit the road and go to gloryb.com with the other skanks where they belong.
Okay, this is a full on rant, and I really have nowhere else to post this, so here it is.
I'm pissed beyond belief.
It's no secret here that I'm the primary (read:only) caregiver for my mother who has Alzheimer's. Rented out my house to move in with her to take care of her in her time of need. She took care of me when I couldn't care for myself when I was a child so it's my time to reciprocate. I have no family or kids myself, so I thought the logic of it was, well....just logical. Oh, and simply the right thing to do.
I went into this knowing that I would have support from both of my brothers when I needed it the most. I just knew they would be there for me to help when it was needed. I was as certain of this as I was the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
Well, I was wrong. I had a chat with the mother of a friend of mine a couple of years ago (who was a caregiver) when I decided that this was I needed to do, and she said something that I didn't put too much stock into at the time, but rings loud and clear as a bell in my mind right now.
Her words to me: Viper, you're getting ready to find out just who your true family and friends are. Brace yourself for some major disappointment.
As time has passed the last 15 months, I have seen just how right she was. I've lost friends, and family as well. But I never thought I would lose the support of my brothers and their families or significant others. Not ever.
Wrong again.
I received an email from my SIL a couple of hours ago stating that she wanted me to bring Mom over on Sunday night to "celebrate" Christmas and we could give our gifts to the kids that night. She stated that they, and my other brother as well, are overwhelmed this year and wanted to do this a bit earlier to free them up.
Okay, this is likely the last Christmas that Mom is to have any cognizance of them and they're just going to brush this off because it doesn't fit into their ideal day of celebration? Or perhaps we're just too much trouble and not worth the effort. Alzheimer's does indeed cast a pall on things..I understand this. I live it EVERY FREAKING DAY! But is it so bad that you would just cast your own mother and MIL aside for the sake of a normal Christmas? Hell, forget about me, I can live with that, but your own mother?
I just don't get it. I really don't. I haven't asked for any help the last 15 months, and I sure as hell won't now from these people who I used to call family. To hell with my family.....LOL, if you could even call it that.
Pulling out the deep fryer and frying us up a turkey and making good old southern cornbread dressing and the rest of the fixins'. Had some gifts for her already, but gonna go buy a few more small things just to see the look on her face that I may see for the last time.
My brothers, I have no idea how you sleep at night, but sleep well.
I'm sorry Viper. My Mom also has Alz. My Dad was sole caregiver for 5 years before we made the difficult decision to admit her. She's now in my city so that he doesn't have to worry. It's been incredibly hard.
I am bringing her to my house on Christmas - it will be the first time she's been outside the facility in months. I'm excited and apprehensive at the same time.
Your Christmas dinner sounds wonderful. I'm sure you and your Mom will have a great time.
I'm sorry Viper. My Mom also has Alz. My Dad was sole caregiver for 5 years before we made the difficult decision to admit her. She's now in my city so that he doesn't have to worry. It's been incredibly hard.
I am bringing her to my house on Christmas - it will be the first time she's been outside the facility in months. I'm excited and apprehensive at the same time.
Your Christmas dinner sounds wonderful. I'm sure you and your Mom will have a great time.
Thanks kerala. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas with your mother there. I'm sure she will be just fine.
Originally Posted by armymama
Viper,
I am sorry about your family members, but am very glad that your mother has you in her life.
Merry Christmas to you and to her!
AM
Thanks, AM. I'm sorry about them too, but it is what it is and I'm done getting ticked at everything they do/don't do.
Sorry for the rant last night, but I was in SERIOUS launch mode then. LOL
Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas as well!
No need to be sorry for ranting. Ranting is the purpose of the rant thread.
AM
Very true, and glad it's here. Needed to blow that steam off. Seriously can't believe what I am seeing from my so called family.
Pitiful.
This is kind of funny though. I was making a grocery list for Christmas day, and DM asked me why I was doing that. Of course, I had already explained that more than a few times, but had to again. Last night her response was, "Well, they have their lives and families and I understand that".
Today's 2 responses were...
Well, honey, did you really expect any differently from them?
and.....
Well, eff them then.
This from a 75 year old bible toting woman from the Deep South.
Nothing funny about Alzheimer's, but it does have it epic moments.
Originally Posted by kerala
My Dad was sole caregiver for 5 years before we made the difficult decision to admit her. She's now in my city so that he doesn't have to worry. It's been incredibly hard.
If you ever had occasion to doubt your father's love for your mother, you can lay those doubts to rest. He has my utmost respect.
Being a family caregiver is tough business. You don't have staff on hand to back you up. Your shift never ends. And, you are far more emotionally invested.
It ain't easy as a professional, but its exhausting as a family member.
My Dad was sole caregiver for 5 years before we made the difficult decision to admit her. She's now in my city so that he doesn't have to worry. It's been incredibly hard.
If you ever had occasion to doubt your father's love for your mother, you can lay those doubts to rest. He has my utmost respect.
God bless you both!
Thank you Viper. What's interesting is that they did not really have a happy marriage - lots of LBs. But his devotion to her in her time of need has been breathtaking. I know he feels very guilty and in fact it is difficult for him to see her in the home so we take it very slow. I just packed him off on a 6-week trip to OZ to see relatives with whom he's very close. He has landed by now and, I hope, will be able to enjoy himself.
Being a family caregiver is tough business. You don't have staff on hand to back you up. Your shift never ends. And, you are far more emotionally invested.
It ain't easy as a professional, but its exhausting as a family member.
Chun up.
Spoken like a man that's BTDT. It is exhausting and extremely frustrating, but at least when it's all over I'll be able to look in the mirror and know I did all I could. I doubt they'll ever be able to make that claim. Plan B for the brothers when it's done. Sad to think about, but I don't see how I could ever muster the strength to forgive this.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, TripleH
Originally Posted by kerala
Thank you Viper. What's interesting is that they did not really have a happy marriage - lots of LBs. But his devotion to her in her time of need has been breathtaking. I know he feels very guilty and in fact it is difficult for him to see her in the home so we take it very slow. I just packed him off on a 6-week trip to OZ to see relatives with whom he's very close. He has landed by now and, I hope, will be able to enjoy himself.
Your Mom is hilarious!!!
One thing I've learned from my time here is that not so happy marriages doesn't necessarily mean a loveless marriage. Sometimes couples just don't know how to express the love that they truly do have for one another. One of the many, MANY reasons I love the MB concepts so much is that it shows you how to do just that....even to stubborn dumbasses like me. Oh well, better late than never I suppose. LOL
Hope your Dad has a wonderful time on his trip. God knows he's earned it. Oh, I will have no objections if you want to send me on a similar jaunt when my little task is completed!
Yeah, DM can be a hoot at times. I need to see if one of my friends has the pork chop story saved. I lost it when my last computer bit the dust. It began as just a severe frustration rant, but the replies I got indicated it was a bit more than that. After looking at it as an anecdote, and not for what it was intended, it was pretty damned funny.
No BTDT here. I am on the professional end. 4 years in assisted living, and just coming up on 1 year in long term skilled nursing/rehab (won rookie of the year, woohoo!).
We had a lot of early and mid-progression dementia at the AL facility I worked at, and had a memory-care unit on campus.
There is a nice video on alzheimer's and dementia from one of the majors where they designed a simulation for caregivers and family members to get an idea what their family members are going through based on reports from patients, and they recently did a run of it here for the staff. Eye-opening stuff.
The funny thing is, when I began my journey I swore up and down I wouldn't get "stuck" in elder care, and now I can't see doing anything else. Amazing. Not easy, but amazing.
A BW who is D(for 10 freaking years) from her WXH and he is now remarried and you allow for the WXH to call and text about the "problems" in his new marriage and how he still loves you, on his wedding night.
You refuse to break contact and send the new wife the texts and emails.
I did have a post all written out and made the mistake of going back and reading some older posts. I discovered the WOMAN IS 54 YEARS OLD, PEOPLE. That is old enough to know better. If you don't have any sense by then, you will never have any sense.
I did have a post all written out and made the mistake of going back and reading some older posts. I discovered the WOMAN IS 54 YEARS OLD, PEOPLE. That is old enough to know better. If you don't have any sense by then, you will never have any sense.
OK. Here's another one. Pastors who don't even use the word evil, let alone tell someone that their behavior is unacceptable and/or evil. Pastors who never look people in the eye and say, "Stop".
A new BS comes to the forum and posts in a way that suggests a pretty massive level of anxiety and depression. The poster is flooded by MB'er post after post saying the same thing "EXPOSE NOW" "GO NUCLEAR NOW" "TELL YOUR TODDLERS NOW"
........ Meanwhile, the BS is so anxious and depressed they cannot manage their day-to-day activities, much less mount a comprehensive and EFFECTIVE plan of attack on the adultery.
Remember, The Art Of War speaks of preparation before battle.
Quote
"To ... not prepare is the greatest of crimes; to be prepared beforehand for any contingency is the greatest of virtues."
To advise the extremely wounded and fragile BS to go directly into battle before preparing is not how MB should be taught. IN MY OPINION !!!!
Can't we show the newly wounded ones ways they should prepare and steady themselves first before yelling at him/her to fire off nukes?
Some new ones have the stamina and wherewithal to take immediate action. Some new ones need to be given some time to prepare themselves. They are too weak for battle, and need time to gain strength.
Sometimes, I was called upon to teach a new diabetic how to self-administer insulin injections. It is pretty easy (straight-forward) to teach insulin ..... unless the patient was in shock after just hearing the diagnosis.
If I yelled at the diabetic for being reluctant to do that first injection, I'd increase their shock, not decrease it.
Again ..... MY OPINION.
Adding:
Me: "This is how you store insulin. This is how you fill the syringe. This is how you prepare your skin. This is how you hold the syringe. This is the angle you use. This is how you dispose of the syringe."
What the diabetic in shock hears: "You are going to go blind, lose your foot to amputation, and then die of a heart attack .... Just like your Uncle Sid."
To advise the extremely wounded and fragile BS to go directly into battle before preparing is not how MB should be taught. IN MY OPINION !!!!
This is the reason I made an exposure thread with tactics, strategy and even templates. I haven't seen anyone suggest that a new BS "rush" into battle without preparing, though. Exposure and affair fighting is a very strategic maneuver. Telling someone to "expose" is to recommend a principle, not a "rush" to action.
Although there is no reason to WAIT to expose. It doesn't take long at all to gather contact information and arrange talking points. That usually doesn't take more than a few hours. Exposure should be done SOONER, not later. Like Harley states, "exposure should be done immediately."
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"I generally recommend exposure. When should it be exposed? I usually recommend that it be exposed immediately."
What is important, especially to a very fragile BS, is for her to be given a PLAN. Hopelessness is a result of floundering around without a plan for a long time. Hopelessness causes despair. Executing a PLAN is extremely empowering to most BS's. I have seen many a BS change from a fearful, hopeless mess into confident, fearless warrior once she has exposed. It is a means of taking back some semblance of control over a very traumatic situation. The sooner that happens, the sooner the BS feels better.
And sometimes it takes spraying such a person with a water hose to wake them up. It might be painful to watch such a water spraying, but that is what it takes to wake them up.
I think they need to be lead by the hand to expose as soon as possible. Otherwise if some are not pushed to exposure, such as myself, te affair will go on and on.
What the diabetic in shock hears: "You are going to go blind, lose your foot to amputation, and then die of a heart attack .... Just like your Uncle Sid."
I can relate Pep, having developed type 1 diabetes at he tender young age of 28...Yeah it was like, "So God wants me to die now..."
It took a couple years to take control of my diet and control the disease. With all the other challenges of a new wife who was pregnant..and drank like a fish...well you can guess the stress.
But facing the music is inevitable, so we must be ready to pounce when we get the chance, and not hold back the judgement that will set them free from the chains of their emotions..
I think this site and the posters should be aware that they have the power and influence and most of all, the experience, that so many BSs must be experiencing while in shock...They will come around no doubt, we hope for their sake.
Bottom line, nobody can take care of you like you can, and that is our responsibility, nobody elses.
If we don't have a team player, when are we to realize this?
Maybe after they are gone for good? Then we are left alone to explain to the kids why Mommy is gone? I find that even harder than, "Mommy does drugs, don't give her any money" But that is my opinion.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink" seems to pop up in my mind..but dang it we are gonna keep fresh water in that trough for when they feel like drinking
Yeah Mel well you Texans need to get hosed down quite a bit in all that heat..I would want the hose turned on me every day if I lived there..The summer I lived in phoenix was hot enuf for me.
Yes Pep they are in shock, and the thread you posted is a good tool, if they are able to get it..It goes both ways I am afraid..Those that get it and those with thick skulls.. Some days...
OK. Here's another one. Pastors who don't even use the word evil, let alone tell someone that their behavior is unacceptable and/or evil. Pastors who never look people in the eye and say, "Stop".
AM
Yeah I ran into this when I tried to get our church to back me up with insisting my wife go to AA.
Finally realized they needed her to stay sick..so they would have some purpose in her life.
A new BS comes to the forum and posts in a way that suggests a pretty massive level of anxiety and depression. The poster is flooded by MB'er post after post saying the same thing "EXPOSE NOW" "GO NUCLEAR NOW" "TELL YOUR TODDLERS NOW"
........ Meanwhile, the BS is so anxious and depressed they cannot manage their day-to-day activities, much less mount a comprehensive and EFFECTIVE plan of attack on the adultery.
Remember, The Art Of War speaks of preparation before battle.
Quote
"To ... not prepare is the greatest of crimes; to be prepared beforehand for any contingency is the greatest of virtues."
To advise the extremely wounded and fragile BS to go directly into battle before preparing is not how MB should be taught. IN MY OPINION !!!!
Can't we show the newly wounded ones ways they should prepare and steady themselves first before yelling at him/her to fire off nukes?
Some new ones have the stamina and wherewithal to take immediate action. Some new ones need to be given some time to prepare themselves. They are too weak for battle, and need time to gain strength.
I am in favor of effectiveness over speed. Occasionally, speed trumps effectiveness, but that is not usually the case.
When I was a 19 year old who knew everything, I was so foolish as to get myself into a social/political argument with my Dad. My Dad was amused, I am certain.
Then, Dad told me an illustrative story. Which , by the way, I absolutely hated at the time, but grew to appreciate.
"There were 2 bulls grazing in the field. Suddenly, from the other side of the hill, appeared a beautiful group of a dozen fertile cows. The cows stirred the desires of the 2 bulls looking at them. The young bull said to the elder, "Lets run up that hill and have our way with one of the cows." The elder bull shook his heavy head and responded. "No. Lets walk up the hill and have our way with all of the cows."
At that time, Dad's story made me think he was soooooooo tiresome.
This senior rooster is patrolling the barnyard when he spies a younger rooster strutting his stuff. The youngster strolls over and says, "Hi, Pops! I'm here to help take care of all these ladies, and....oh, my, I see female Rhode Island Reds!" And off he dashes to service the whole flock.
Later that day, the senior rooster says to him, "Sonny, you should pace yourself a bit. No one can keep up the rate you've set for yourself!" The kid replies, "Nope, Pops, I'm gonna stay at it until...oh, wow, I see female Plymouth Rocks!" and off he goes again, mating with each one of them.
Later that day, the senior rooster sees the youngster laying flat out in the dust, eyes closed, tongue lolling. He approaches the body, mumbling, "Poor stupid kid. He had a great future if he'd just have paced himself!" From the prone rooster he hears, whispered, "Quiet Pops, I see female vultures!"
[ I am in favor of effectiveness over speed. Occasionally, speed trumps effectiveness, but that is not usually the case.
I am in favor of being strategic and think that is a better predictor of effectiveness than speed or slowness. A good strategy should drive the agenda, rather than the speed. Sometimes it is strategic to be fast, other times it is strategic to be slow.
I think most people are lacking in strategic insight and confuse "speed" or "slowness" with effectiveness. In my experience it is not the same thing.
For anyone requiring more analogy to understand Pep's point; I have 3 weeks of vacation to burn in the next 2 months, and I will gladly come to your home and apply pain and pressure to your most sensitive bits while teaching you defensive driving strategies... there will be a test after.
To advise the extremely wounded and fragile BS to go directly into battle before preparing is not how MB should be taught. IN MY OPINION !!!!
Can't we show the newly wounded ones ways they should prepare and steady themselves first before yelling at him/her to fire off nukes?
Some new ones have the stamina and wherewithal to take immediate action. Some new ones need to be given some time to prepare themselves. They are too weak for battle, and need time to gain strength.
That's my opinion. [/b]
Pretty much agree. It's when months go by and the new ones aren't so new anymore and still don't want to act, I get concerned.
Plan B complaint...when it is also Plan D, it is very different than a solo Plan B. Going into a dark plan B too soon, smells of conflict avoidance by the BS to me. There are some legal aspects that should be ironed out ASAP but going 100% dark from the get go is not a good idea IMO. The legal disadvantage a BS puts themselves in concerns me GREATLY. Unless you're Rockerfeller and can pay an attorney $300/hr to handle every single communication with a stbxWS, I don't think not knowing about certain things or incurring legal expenses up the wahzoo is helpful to the BS.
I think most people are lacking in strategic insight and confuse "speed" or "slowness" with effectiveness. In my experience it is not the same thing.
That's how I roll...
Oh Cmon Mel, your from Texas..I live in Bawlimer and I don't even use those "Gangsta" sayings..lol.
I agree that they don't have the insight, or the wisdom...hopefully we can say "yet". But Peps talking about the shock value of the incidents that brought them here..
It would be different if they were accually "here", instead of browsing the web looking for answers..if they paid for this advice, if they really valued all of the time put in here by people such as yourself..
But in this world full of cop-outs and looking the other way if things are not what we want to see, it is easy for them to just go to U-tube and watch thier favorite video if things get to tough.
Remember you, and I, came up in a different world, where adults were listened to, and guidance was respected.. Unfortunately it is sold more often than not in this world,,for fame or fortune.
As I read Dr. Hs words of wisdom I realised he was of the same school of thought as I was from the beginning of my marriage, so it was like I found a home.
.Too late for my wife, and my marriage of course too. But I totally get the concept of time and influence on human beings..I was fooled at one time too.
Pushing people who are afraid and in shock may be the right thing to do, and wisdom says.."WHY DO YOU PUT UP WITH THIS?", but we must work with what we have..
Many times its a audience that is timid and afraid, and needs time to see the light.
I wish there was a section of MB for the timid and weak of heart, who don't see the writing on the wall when they are playing around with other peoples emotions,or being played on themselves, but it will take time and experience for them to see the light.
I say we let them ask for help, when they realize that they are lost, and when they are ready to take the bull by the horns. Until then, we keep the water trough full, for when they need a drink.
"Many times its a audience that is timid and afraid, and needs time to see the light."
And who is the best judge of how much time is needed? I think most people have poor instincts about such things, don't you? And some have an inflated view of their own abilities. The nice thing is we have several different posters so those with poor instincts can be helped by those who don't. I think most people who show up on the infidelity are timid and afraid. But we still help them.
Lol. well the cow & bull thing went over my head when I was younger too..
It wasn't till I saw how important sex was to me that I saw the humor...yeah me man..sex important..yeah Ug.
But it was the confidence that was my problem, not the sex..sex is a no brainer..has to be..for the propagation of our species.
You wouldn't want an egghead to figure out sex now would ya?
We could make it a law of course, but nah, that wont work, they got pills for that anyways..Or maybe some kind of birth control method..umm they aren't reliable..
Of course common sense will work, but then where is the romance?
See there is always a reason and an excuse..
But God tells us sex is for procreation and life is preciuos..even the best of us cant keep that straight and figure that .."IT WILL BE ALRIGHT, QUIT YUR GRINNIN AND DROP YUR LINEN!"
or something much more romantic and subtle...depends on the mood at the time..
and then we are telling God he has to take care of us cuz its HIS? fault..What a mess huh?
No wonder so many people come here so mixed up and confused..
For anyone requiring more analogy to understand Pep's point; I have 3 weeks of vacation to burn in the next 2 months, and I will gladly come to your home and apply pain and pressure to your most sensitive bits while teaching you defensive driving strategies... there will be a test after.
Plan B complaint...when it is also Plan D, it is very different than a solo Plan B. Going into a dark plan B too soon, smells of conflict avoidance by the BS to me. There are some legal aspects that should be ironed out ASAP but going 100% dark from the get go is not a good idea IMO. The legal disadvantage a BS puts themselves in concerns me GREATLY. Unless you're Rockerfeller and can pay an attorney $300/hr to handle every single communication with a stbxWS, I don't think not knowing about certain things or incurring legal expenses up the wahzoo is helpful to the BS.
You make an interesting point. Something I have never considered! I am now wondering if . . . . . . . . I should go to law school.
And who is the best judge of how much time is needed?
It's not a time unit I am talking about. My thinking is ..... whatever unit of time it takes to get the new BS prepared for battle. Sometimes it's a day or 2. Occasionally longer. The more the BS answers our questions and reads the links we offer, the quicker they become prepared. I am not arguing against speed. I want to make myself clear. I am arguing for preparedness.
Remember, I really care NOT about quickness, but preparedness. I was ranting that ,sometimes the advice offered stresses quickness of action while the BS is woefully unprepared .... IN MY OPINION.
I can tell my approach to this is very much influenced by my medical background. Getting prepared for surgery is usually a good thing. But, if we are talking about a life-death emergency surgery, the time taken to prepare is often minimal. Get in there and do this now, or the patient dies.
Lol. well the cow & bull thing went over my head when I was younger too..
It wasn't till I saw how important sex was to me that I saw the humor...yeah me man..sex important..yeah Ug.
But it was the confidence that was my problem, not the sex..sex is a no brainer..has to be..for the propagation of our species.
You wouldn't want an egghead to figure out sex now would ya?
We could make it a law of course, but nah, that wont work, they got pills for that anyways..Or maybe some kind of birth control method..umm they aren't reliable..
Of course common sense will work, but then where is the romance?
See there is always a reason and an excuse..
But God tells us sex is for procreation and life is preciuos..even the best of us cant keep that straight and figure that .."IT WILL BE ALRIGHT, QUIT YUR GRINNIN AND DROP YUR LINEN!"
or something much more romantic and subtle...depends on the mood at the time..
and then we are telling God he has to take care of us cuz its HIS? fault..What a mess huh?
No wonder so many people come here so mixed up and confused..
For anyone requiring more analogy to understand Pep's point; I have 3 weeks of vacation to burn in the next 2 months, and I will gladly come to your home and apply pain and pressure to your most sensitive bits while teaching you defensive driving strategies... there will be a test after.
Oh My Goodness I Already Feel Defensive
*applying pressure to the pinky toe*
HHH: Be sure to watch for cross-traffic while approaching uncontrolled intersections...
*cough* Student *cough* hears;
(Though, not nearly as relaxed as our friend Peppermint Patty)
I think he was referring to my previous post because he used my verbiage.
NO HE WAS NOT !!!!!!!!
Totally a colonoscopy joke
Quote
Although most of us come here fully inflated and just need to let some pressure out..
MelMelMel .... During a colonoscopy .... the MD pushes air "up there" so he/she can move the scope forward. The belly inflates like a balloon .... and then .... the "pressure" is released .... and whooooooosh ..... the air escapes. Guess how the air escapes.
as i stand in my classroom and gaze at the young men whose minds i am supposed to be filling with knowledge, i often feel that this is what i sound like! thanks for the clip. i can use it
Ok dropping it now cuz it is personal..but, it is important
yah, yah, you people just want to see Cruella put it where the sun don't shine!!
Thanks for the concern. I will run it by doctor when I see her in February and see how hard she pushes this time. She can be a pushy broad, but I am pushier!
If you think that about me, you don't know me!! If I follow anyone's advice they have to PROVE to me they know what they are talking about. My last doctor said "God help whoever gets you for a patient!!" whatevah!
If you think that about me, you don't know me!! If I follow anyone's advice they have to PROVE to me they know what they are talking about. My last doctor said "God help whoever gets you for a patient!!" whatevah!
If you think that about me, you don't know me!! If I follow anyone's advice they have to PROVE to me they know what they are talking about. My last doctor said "God help whoever gets you for a patient!!" whatevah!
Uh oh, when a doctor starts praying...Lol
He was a wonderful doctor and just perfect for me. I moved to a new city and don't have him anymore. He was a feisty eye-talian who was also a voracious researcher like me. We had some big debates, and sometimes he won, and sometimes I won. I would go into my appointments armed with books, studies, articles to prove my point and sometimes he agreed with me and sometimes he would say "lets just run a test and see if you are right about that."
One time I had put on alot of weight for absolutely no apparent reason and he kept trying to tell me I was "pre-diabetic." I just wouldn't believe it because I don't eat junk food. I went to another endo and he was just a moron. He said you are just getting old, deal with it and then told me something incredibly inaccurate about a particular diet. I told my eye-talian Dr about this and he laughed "that poor bast*ard had no idea what he getting into!"
So I went to the top endo weight specialist in our huge city and she told me "oh you are pre-diabetic. That is why you have put on weight." She explained that diabetes can be genetic and that if I had not been on such a clean diet for years I would likely be a full blown diabetic. So in that case, I knew just enough to be dangerous BUT I eventually went on the appropriate medicine, and lo and behold, I lost the weight! I went back to my eye-talian GP and told him all this and admitted he was right. I miss that rascal!
If you think that about me, you don't know me!! If I follow anyone's advice they have to PROVE to me they know what they are talking about. My last doctor said "God help whoever gets you for a patient!!" whatevah!
I might be a little slow on the uptake, however, when I arrived here it was a dramatically different environment. When you arrived, there were many posters here to help you because this was a controlled learning environment, rather than a chat board where psychobabble reigned supreme and "all opinions are equal." "Lurve Languages" and every other dog and cat program was discussed here instead of MB. The language of psychobabble reigned supreme.
An actual recovered marriage was as rare as sasquatch on this board. Wayward bullies were treated like little prima donnas and allowed to bully and intimidate betrayed spouses. The first week I posted here, I was chastised by a WW for snooping and another WW started a call out thread to chastise me - by name - for saying "it was nice seeing a truly remorseful WH." [I was jumped on for making a "DJ" - saying something nice about one wayward was apparently an insult to the others ] No one defended me either. It was only after me and several others went to the MB weekend in 2007 that MB became widely discussed and understood. The board has made a dramatic transformation since 2008.
So perhaps I am slow on the uptake, but I worked hard to ensure the board was a completely different environment when *YOU* arrived. No one did that for me.
edited to add: a few of those years were spent running off the wayward trolls who used to attack this board. One of those years I was moderated 103 times!
Shall I describe instead enduring a prostate biopsy? If you're squeamish, don't follow the arrow!
Same mechanics, but - done while you're awake, - with a larger "business end", - and twelve little needles shot through the separating membranes, one....at....a....time!
And, oh by the way, it was known what the all-but-certain result was to be, so I endured that just to verify and "size" the BAD NEWS!
I might be a little slow on the uptake, however, when I arrived here it was a dramatically different environment. When you arrived, there were many posters here to help you because this was a controlled learning environment, rather than a chat board where psychobabble reigned supreme and "all opinions are equal." "Lurve Languages" and every other dog and cat program was discussed here instead of MB. The language of psychobabble reigned supreme.
An actual recovered marriage was as rare as sasquatch on this board. Wayward bullies were treated like little prima donnas and allowed to bully and intimidate betrayed spouses. The first week I posted here, I was chastised by a WW for snooping and another WW started a call out thread to chastise me - by name - for saying "it was nice seeing a truly remorseful WH." [I was jumped on for making a "DJ" - saying something nice about one wayward was apparently an insult to the others ] No one defended me either. It was only after me and several others went to the MB weekend in 2007 that MB became widely discussed and understood. The board has made a dramatic transformation since 2008.
So perhaps I am slow on the uptake, but I worked hard to ensure the board was a completely different environment when *YOU* arrived. No one did that for me.
edited to add: a few of those years were spent running off the wayward trolls who used to attack this board. One of those years I was moderated 103 times!
Oh, I don't doubt it.
I've actually seem some (less dramatic) changes in my time here. In the boards, in posters.
The board has made a dramatic transformation since 2008.
So perhaps I am slow on the uptake, but I worked hard to ensure the board was a completely different environment when *YOU* arrived. No one did that for me.
edited to add: a few of those years were spent running off the wayward trolls who used to attack this board. One of those years I was moderated 103 times!
Greatly appreciated too Mel.
Really 2008? Well starch my shorts my wife was so far gone by then I don't think she would have been helped in her addiction issues anyways.
She should have went to AA in the late 80s like I asked her too, and her church personnel should have backed me up when I asked them to also..
She was a loss to me and the kids world, and many peoples world, but it had gone chronic by 1999 anyways and I don't know if I could have pulled her back after Vermont anyways..
Se Le vi? (Sorry don't know how to spell it)
But Dr Hs wisdom is still primo to me, and I have been a convert before I ever read a word..It speaks so loud and clear..
But 2008? It may have been to late for her, but its not to late for the rest of us.
I would say that 2008 was the first year the board really took a dramatic turn for the better. Folks learned about Marriage Builders and Dr Harley added to his mission statement that the purpose of the board was to discuss Marriage Builders. No longer were "all opinions equal." And those lovely OW no longer came to visit me. Most of the worst troublemakers and crapwits were weeded out around that time.
The actual exam is easy. It lasts a few minutes. They offer drugs. Accept them gladly. Someone (Your Cowboy) will be required to drive you (happily) home. The preparation is very irksome. It lasts an entire day (depending on the time your appointment is scheduled). Think of it as a weight loss "cleanse". There is water weight loss, and trust me, you will be clean as a whistle.
In my experience, most refusing patients are a combination of: 1. queasy about the test/preparation 2. anxious about the results and rehearse the "What if it is cancer" in their head unceasingly 3. some patients prefer to argue whether or not a test which is proven to diagnose cancer at an early stage is necessary
Facts:
Colon CA is a silent sneak. It is a slow grower who lurks without symptoms for years. NO SYMPTOMS. Sometimes 8-10. During that early stage, it is often completely curable with relatively simple methods. Those patients are followed by increased frequency of surveillance. Like "Spying 101".
The most common colon CA is found in people of both genders after age 50. There are other familial forms which begin earlier. If you have a blood relative with certain diagnoses, you will be advised of the increased risk.
If you (Mel) are in for a routine colon CA screening exam after age 50, and your exam is normal (most often the case), you will not be required to repeat the exam for about 10 years. Why? Because it's a slow grower, remember? If you develop some sort of ominous symptoms in the meanwhile, you need to repeat the exam sooner.
Before the exam you will be fasting and experience the normal hunger pangs of any fasting period. After the exam you may not drive (whoopee-drugs) but you can pretty much count on feeling perfectly fine otherwise. There is NO discomfort after the exam. You can eat.
If you decide to refuse a colon cancer screening exam, you may very well be fortunate to never have symptoms. If you however do develop symptoms, you will face the fact that if you do have colon cancer, it is much more likely to be in a more advanced stage. Surgery. Chemo therapy. The entire mess. Ostomy bags are not a fun way to go. Trust me, colonoscopy preps are waaaaaay easier.
The 12 months leading up to the eventual removal of my entire colon, I had 4 colonoscopies. I consider myself somewhat a seasoned traveler in this regard.
Choices: 1. Have early colon CA screening every 10 years 2. Risk loss of life if an advanced stage of this slow/silent CA is discovered later
I'm pretty confident they will never diagnose you with prostate CA Mel.
I had a colonoscopy 2 years ago to find out what was causing some cramping, and I had to start taking the stuff at about 4 pm the previous day. (My appointment was the earliest possible the next day)
The funny thing is, most likely if you have one, you won't remember diddly-squat. I remember laying down with the gown on and then waking up afterwards. My first thought was pure joy, because the nice nurse gave me a soda. Nothing like being doped up to magnify your emotions.
You'll be a bit sleepy for a while, and personally I had some minor stomach pain for a week or so.
Yeah I slept thru mine too,but hey been in O.R. so many times during my life..
It is really easy Mel, and like we can all attest to, no over thinking it.
Get 'er done. Its really pretty simple, but like Larry the cable guy would admit if he had any brains..(Not the comedian the character), Y'all need to see them there professionals..
I assumed you were joking. But then again, you and I don't have any history of animosity, do we ?
Suggestion:
The next time you are joking, put a smily face for insurance. Sometimes humor is mistaken for sarcasm on message boards.
Example:
"Shaddup Pep!" .... Is always a joke to me .... unless proven otherwise.
There are always little tools to try to add context to text...
In Japan, the number of emoticons (smileys), or emoji, are critical to the success of a cell phone because the Japanese language is nearly devoid of context when written. Emoji play a HUGE part in granting text messages the proper context.
At age 4 success is not peeing in your pants. At age 12 success is having friends. At age 16 success is having a drivers license. At age 20 success is having sex. At age 35 success is having money. At age 50 success is having money. At age 60 success is having sex. At age 70 success is having a drivers license. At age 75 success is having friends. At age 80 success is not peeing in your pants.
I have had three colonoscopies. All were as Pep described.
In 2009, as he was waking up from his colonoscopy, H invited me into the hospital bed for some hanky-panky. I declined as there were many hospital staffers floating around.
I have had three colonoscopies. All were as Pep described.
In 2009, as he was waking up from his colonoscopy, H invited me into the hospital bed for some hanky-panky. I declined as there were many hospital staffers floating around.
At age 4 success is not peeing in your pants. At age 12 success is having friends. At age 16 success is having a drivers license. At age 20 success is having sex. At age 35 success is having money. At age 50 success is having money. At age 60 success is having sex. At age 70 success is having a drivers license. At age 75 success is having friends. At age 80 success is not peeing in your pants.
I don't need to expose ... I will humilate them ... the wayward is remorseful ... that from the mouth of someone's whose first marriage encountered serial cheating and now whose second marriage has fallen into the same pattern.
But it is different with me ... then go and do it your way. It's only your emotional health we are talking about. Geesh!!!!
"Stop stalking me on the Internet!!! ", or "stop looking at my pictures, posts, etc.! We're not even 'friends!'"
Ummm...stop putting things on the Internet as a whole that you don't want 1 billion people to see?
Good Lord. My niece asked me how to get her great uncle to stop "liking" her pictures. She thinks he is creepy (he's just old). 1000 ways to fix that problem.
In 2006 I discovered that my WXH had infected me with HPV16 (the most aggressive strain). I had just discovered the affair so I hoped OW would get what she deserved.
Of course now I don't give a damn. Not my life, not my morals, not my problem.
Yes. At a minimum the other persons name and contact info should be provided to public health authorities.
On a separate matter my ex wife took her dog with her. And I'm glad she did. She had left months before the divorce and the dog had a terrible flea problem I tried to treat unsuccessfully. I smiled to myself when she took the dog because I knew that OM had lots of dogs and that she was living with him.
Weird, it has been that way all day long! But if you click on the link, you will see all the actual names that are reading. I clicked on it around 2:00 today and there were actually about 50-60 registered and 200 anonymous reading.
People who choose to be weak and complacent, thereby enabling affairs. Nothing spikes my blood pressure more than that.
Yeah well you can get mad and threaten people Mel, and even smack a few if it will do them some good.
But some of us have to watch out cuz certain people just might wake up dead, and we don't want to be blamed for it.
I still have kids to raise, and to help support until I am certain I am done..
Of course I would gladly trade the last couple days of my life for their lives, if that's is how it works out. I just don't want to be a burden on the working man or the tax base.
We will see how it works out..The last one was the crack king and although he is worthless, I have plenty of reason/excuse to take him out. With smiles...I could deal with the baddazzs in the jail if I had to.
MB posters who pop in after page 50 and ask questions that were previously asked and answered. It isn't necessary to follow every thread, but if a poster decides to comment or ask questions, he/she ought to at least be familar with the thread.
MB posters who pop in after page 50 and ask questions that were previously asked and answered. It isn't necessary to follow every thread, but if a poster decides to comment or ask questions, he/she ought to at least be familar with the thread.
MB posters who pop in after page 50 and ask questions that were previously asked and answered...he/she ought to at least be famil1ar with the thread.
Ya know what's even worse? When those posters don't even check out this thread to see how their actions are being judged as disruptive....and continue with their behavior!
When I see a new thread (I try to avoid a new one for five pages or so to avoid the "but I CAN'T DO THAT TO MY WS HE/SHE WILL LEAVE!!!" syndrome. Typically, though, I tend to read the last two or three pages to catch up. Would it be better to check more than that?
Honestly, when they get to be more than 50 pages, who can keep them all straight? I'm like "Is that the guy that is overseas or the one with the kid in PR"?? LOL
My apologies. I guess there are lots of people who post on threads without knowing what is happening in the thread.
AM
Sometimes its people who just have a rant for the day,(like myself right now), who feel free to give their opinion, and don't read the whole thread..
They are no closer to understanding the progress of people who are posting by reading the last 6 months,(Note the date of posts), in reading the actions done in the last ten minutes...
Its really relative to the time spent also and how different people process such information...and the posters reaction, or reactions...
The real counselors, the ones who invest their time in people who do it for a living, deserve respect because they do it for a living. They're is no Canned formula to tell what people need for counsel..What kind of counsel..or medical attention..
Monday IS a holiday, Sugar, but not one of the major ones. It is called President's Day, and is an amalgam of George Washington's and Abraham Lincoln's birthdays both being in February. Since we're now approaching 50-odd presidents (and getting ODDER, if one may make a political comment!) someone a while ago decided that a consolidated holiday commemorating those politicians, who made it to the Chief Executive Office BEFORE their crimes, misdemeanors, and treasons were unearthed, would be efficient.
The celebrating of this holiday is limited to the basically ineducable children here foregoing a day of school, and the rapacious and predatory commercial entities holding (yet another) Spectacular! Sale!
So.....here's to James Buchanan, Warren G. Harding, Jimmy Carter, and the rest of the mediocrities that have led this great nation!
My pet hate is the armchair psychiatrists who authoritatively declare their exes to be xyz disordered even though they have never been officially diagnosed with anything. Can't people just take responsibility for their behaviour? What is wrong with 'I screwed up'.
So, watching the conclusion of Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy... something kind of struck out at me;
Originally Posted by Bane
Home, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this prison is the worst hell on earth... Hope. Every man who has ventured here over the centuries has looked up to the light and imagined climbing to freedom. So easy... So simple... And like shipwrecked men turning to sea water from uncontrollable thirst, many have died trying. I learned here that there can be no true despair without hope. So, as I terrorize Gotham, I will feed its people hope to poison their souls. I will let them believe they can survive so that you can watch them clamoring over each other to "stay in the sun." You can watch me torture an entire city and when you have truly understood the depth of your failure, we will fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny... We will destroy Gotham and then, when it is done and Gotham is ashes, then you have my permission to die
Trip, your tagline ("An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr) brings to mind one of my favorite aphorisms:
An expert is a man who knows more and more about less and less. An idiot knows less and less about more and more. One strives to know everything about nothing, while the other comes to know nothing of everything!
Trip, your tagline ("An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr) brings to mind one of my favorite aphorisms:
An expert is a man who knows more and more about less and less. An idiot knows less and less about more and more. One strives to know everything about nothing, while the other comes to know nothing of everything!
There is a TED talk by Sam Harris where part of his point is about the use of experts.
One of his starting examples is altruism, with Mother Theresa as an expert, and Ted Bundy as the poorest human example of altruism.
From there, he shows a photo of one of the lead string theory scientists in the world, and goes on to say "I am the Ted Bundy of string theory."
One part of "expertise" is somewhat socratic; "I know that I know nothing." Or, rather, having a surface understanding of a subject, we have no idea how much we don't know.
Watching an EA in action (at another table) while having lunch with my child
YUK indeed. Our previous house in Los Angeles was on a cul de sac. For awhile, a couple parked there daily during lunch time to make out. I figured they needed some attention, so I went out to do something in the front yard every time they were there. They stopped showing up. They found a new location, I suppose.
I figured they needed some attention, so I went out to do something in the front yard every time they were there. They stopped showing up. They found a new location, I suppose.
I don't know why... but there are certain cries that just drum up the image of the Greek Hero Ajax.
Ajax was a capable warrior - by his own account, the greatest of the Greeks to lay seige to Troy second to only Achilles.
After the fall of Troy and death of Achilles, a contest was held to see who would claim the wonderous armor of Achilles. The clever Odysseus won the contest.
His pride injured by the perceived slight against him, Ajax planned to kill the Greeks, their kings Agamemnon and Menalaus, and to slowly and torture and kill the "treacherous" Odysseus.
However, the Goddess Athena found out about Ajax's plan, and "fogged" his vision. Instead of slaughtering the Greek army, Ajax laid waste to the cattle of the Greek army.
When released from Athena's fogged vision, Ajax was dismayed and ashamed at his actions; the slaughter of weak and innocent animals, rather than that of his percieved enemies.
Wailing cries of lamentation at his shame, he resolves to take his prize; the sword of Hector, the mighty Trojan prince, and fall upon it to end his shame. Though, in the same stroke, Ajax calls out to the Gods for glory after his death.
Rough analogy, I know... but it's just what comes to mind when I see someone lamenting about "falling on their sword..."
There's an idea that I have had on my mind sometimes and it's about the "redefining" of the word abuse as written in Dr. Harley's Q&A. I have heard the argument several times about how it's offensive or not right how Dr. Harley defines abuse. I think I have realized finally the full argument of those who take umbrage with him, and it goes something like this:
Abuse is hitting your spouse or calling them names and other things similar that we all agree are abuse. Sure this real abuse is preceded by selfish demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts, but SDs, DJs, and AOs don't necessarily wind up as abuse. That means that those LBs are not necessarily abuse. See, since I don't hit my spouse, the selfish demands, disrespect, and anger I show are not abuse, but rather understandable slips or simple rare flashes of my minor character flaws. As a matter of fact, since I never plan to make demands or have an angry outburst, every single time I do so it is unintentional. Therefore my lovebusters are not abuse, neither by intent nor by final outcome (since I don't lay a hand on my spouse or call them those 4 or 5 letter names).
A pretty slick, but illogical, way to bypass one's conscience altogether and avoid the internal pressure to change one's behavior or even to question one's own justifications for their behavior.
It seems to me that Steve Harley has heard similar types of arguments of "I'm not abusive, you guys misuse the term" and his answer is in his article "Ouch...".
As I was thinking about this, the idea of extraordinary precautions came to mind. Sure, not all close friendships with a person of the opposite sex is an affair or leads to one, yet we caution against these relationships because it is a near universal first step towards affairs. The extraordinary precaution is to keep from taking that first step on that path, thereby protecting against infidelity in the fullest way.
This idea seems perfectly suited for the abuse "spectrum" as well. Since it's near universal that abuse begins with a selfish demand/and or a disrespectful judgement, the extraordinary precaution against abuse is to not engage in those in the first place.
And in the end, who cares what it is called? If you say or do something and you see your spouse's face fall and register pain, or if they tell you that hurt, does it matter what name one puts on it? Does it have to be given the "proper" name before it's to be given consideration to eliminate? Again, the "Ouch" article is a fantastic companion reading in addition to Dr. Harley's Q&A.
This may not exactly be written as a rant, but it's in response to an inside feeling of ranting when I hear or read that someone just does not agree or like what Dr. Harley says about abuse. There are too many other psychologists out there in agreement, also with books, that make it clear that there's more to abuse than hitting and calling names. There's a great way to test it: if you wouldn't want it thrown to you, don't throw it one someone else. Of course, this isn't my original thought, and the plagiarism I just performed came from "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Whew, but isn't that the very definition and manifestation of empathy?!
and the 
, and
I KNOW this is just a message board, but this subject is dear to my heart and I'm passionate about it. I don't lose sleep over it, but it can't be helping my blood pressure. 
...I do see vividly that I have plenty of work to do there.
.
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/falling/4.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/7.gif)
It is like watching the rapist cry because the cops handled him a little too roughly after he just raped a 12 yr old girl. Sorry, but my sympathy is for the victim, not the perp.
I have posted where I think I might be able to say something that helps.
........ Are you NOT harsh cuz you're conflict avoiding????....... ![[Linked Image from rlv.zcache.com]](http://rlv.zcache.com/dead_smiley_face_sticker-p217066130771241529qjcl_400.jpg)
will just have to wait.
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/waving/7.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/bouncing/1.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/aliens/14.gif)
![[Linked Image from i39.photobucket.com]](http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/jwondering/th_bartmoom-1.gif)
![[Linked Image from freesmileys.org]](http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-char066.gif)
![[Linked Image from myemoticons.com]](http://www.myemoticons.com/images/humor/moonies/moony-wave.gif)
![[Linked Image from smileyvault.com]](http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/CBSA/smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-009.gif)
![[Linked Image from myemoticons.com]](http://www.myemoticons.com/images/super-smileys/baddies/female-gangster.gif)
Well, you just dont know what kinda smiley you're dealing with...do ya, little lady? ![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/eyes/1.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/computer2/2.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/flasher/2.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/famous/2.gif)
![[Linked Image from myemoticons.com]](http://www.myemoticons.com/images/super-smileys/humor/stooges.gif)
![[Linked Image from blavish.com]](http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/exomos-goby-yellow-submarine-11-16-2006.jpg)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/famous/3.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/horses1/25.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/eyes/3.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/animals/8.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/animals/7.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/funny/6.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/funny/5.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/cowboy1/18.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/big/11.gif)
![[Linked Image from ts1.mm.bing.net]](http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=186074273908&id=42d5ec32bbcbc16bbf0208e7219f7db5&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.liveandreal.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2010%2f02%2ffunny_animals_37.jpg)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/angry2/11.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/religous/3.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/computer2/8.gif)
![[Linked Image from cool-smileys.com]](http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/HK15.gif)
![[Linked Image from cool-smileys.com]](http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/147.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/computer2/3.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/4.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/7.gif)
![[Linked Image from freesmileys.org]](http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry021.gif)
![[Linked Image from myemoticons.com]](http://www.myemoticons.com/images/super-smileys/jumbo/humor/gas.gif)
![[Linked Image from faqs.org]](http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/6043/7912wooden_box.jpg)
and it worked really well!
![[Linked Image from krispykreme.com]](http://www.krispykreme.com/images/historytop1.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/cowboy1/12.gif)
![[Linked Image from freesmileyface.net]](http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Animals/0114.gif)
![[Linked Image from equalexchangecafe.com]](http://www.equalexchangecafe.com/images/coffee-dancing-goat.jpg)
![[Linked Image from 2.bp.blogspot.com]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_im7SAbSH66A/Rd4wVOGJKkI/AAAAAAAAAG4/KuI_82WXRpE/s400/dancing%2Bgoats.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i94.photobucket.com]](http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l116/carleighlunn/dancinggoatlogo.jpg)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/famous/8.gif)
![[Linked Image from emofaces.com]](http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/y/yoyo-emoticon.gif)
I also live in a far away land that does not have the glory of Dunkin Dougnuts -- the best coffee in the land of the free! 
![[Linked Image from myemoticons.com]](http://www.myemoticons.com/images/work-school/school-studying/back-to-school-frown.gif)
![[Linked Image from sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net]](http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs312.ash2/59274_1414164641377_1450382770_31012079_2541020_n.jpg)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/1.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/thumbs/6.gif)
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/toliot/7.gif)
![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/Bananeyessss.gif)
![[Linked Image from messengermods.com]](http://www.messengermods.com/data/thumbnails/14/u_smell_like_butt.jpg)
![[Linked Image from 4.bp.blogspot.com]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5eEJcRsmTDI/SIj4V0E-ahI/AAAAAAAADHM/DIvKTyLCnD0/s1600/wendydisplay%2B(3).jpg)
![[Linked Image from s6.tinypic.com]](http://s6.tinypic.com/35iyavr_th.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.i.com.com]](http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/cbsnews/2010/09/19/image6881878g.jpg)
![[Linked Image from static.guim.co.uk]](http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Columnists/Columnists/2010/1/6/1262790725160/Camilla-Parker-Bowles-and-001.jpg)
![[Linked Image from kidicarus222.blogspot.com]](http://kidicarus222.blogspot.com/slut%2520hat.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i39.photobucket.com]](http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/jwondering/th_doglaughing.gif)
, you look away and the cat jumps on your keyboard or you hit submit and don't save it first to the clipboard and its lost in the process..
![[Linked Image from bookhills.com]](http://www.bookhills.com/images/Barbie-Doll-Photo-Album-1959-to-2009-1574326252-L.jpg)
There. Evened it out a little. ![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/91.gif)
![[Linked Image from 24.media.tumblr.com]](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll1607hLDU1qajkvso1_500.jpg)
![[Linked Image from getsmileyface.com]](http://www.getsmileyface.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif)
![[Linked Image from images.zaazu.com]](http://images.zaazu.com/img/yuk-yuk-female-disgust-smiley-emoticon-000473-large.gif)
![[Linked Image from clicksassy.com]](http://clicksassy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/koolaidman.jpg)
![[Linked Image from ih0.redbubble.net]](http://ih0.redbubble.net/work.5140663.1.lp,375x360,b,s,TGVhZiBTdGFsa2Vy.jpg)
![[Linked Image from puppetplay.ca]](http://www.puppetplay.ca/images/cat-sock-puppet.png)
![[Linked Image from pic50.picturetrail.com]](http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL427/742855/5294674/67687202.jpg)
![[Linked Image from ts3.mm.bing.net]](http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1335695582242&id=f5ddcf2498d23eef1ac51d8934b9a260&url=http%3a%2f%2fth90.photobucket.com%2falbums%2fk255%2fsizzlinredneck%2fth_732ad5a8.jpg)
![[Linked Image from ohiok.com]](http://ohiok.com/img/cowmooos/emoticons/animated/yes.gif)
![[Linked Image from 2.bp.blogspot.com]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iKcZ3qcCmyo/R5e-PBBIdfI/AAAAAAAAEv4/GIaflozPhx4/s400/Bad+Advice.gif)
![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/5yjbztv.gif)
![[Linked Image from thewriterscoin.com]](http://www.thewriterscoin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/lolcal_typo-300x225.jpg)
![[Linked Image from icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com]](http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/c56bccce-8fcc-42fe-8bea-f0651568e07d.jpg)
![[Linked Image from smilearchive.com]](http://smilearchive.com/s/ups/unknown/lsvader.gif)
![[Linked Image from smilearchive.com]](http://smilearchive.com/s/contrib/edoom/eat_arrow.gif){kind=icon}
![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/devil.gif)
![[Linked Image from catholicculture.org]](http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/pictures/9_29_michael2.jpg)
![[Linked Image from alesrarus.funkydung.com]](http://alesrarus.funkydung.com/images/troll.jpg)
![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/3120.gif)
![[Linked Image from sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net]](http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/419262_10150560097804939_248843029938_9033118_1421522174_n.jpg)
![[Linked Image from spanalaskasales.com]](http://www.spanalaskasales.com/media/Chef-Boyardee-Beef-Ravioli.gif)
![[Linked Image from static.caloriecount.about.com]](http://static.caloriecount.about.com/images/medium/chef-boyardee-lasagna-kit-72455.jpg)
![[Linked Image from wwwdelivery.superstock.com]](http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1841/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1841-35266.jpg)
![[Linked Image from upload.wikimedia.org]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Arrow_south.svg/242px-Arrow_south.svg.png){kind=icon}
![[Linked Image from pic50.picturetrail.com]](http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL427/742855/9410112/400345781.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i222.photobucket.com]](http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd224/jwonderingphotos/bigthud.gif)
![[Linked Image from i48.tinypic.com]](http://i48.tinypic.com/fjfate.jpg)
![[Linked Image from sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net]](https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/67276_455550097849217_1557432245_n.jpg)