Hello everyone.

I just registered. I have been on here some time before, but I left to work on domestics.

I won't comment further, I just wanted everyone to know who I was and that I am here reading.



Allen A

Hi Allan,
thanks for posting.
Why not?

blessing

I followed you here.

Getting set to expose to OW's family within the next 2 weeks or so.

Hey V!

Puppy and I got banned!

Great to see someone from the old neighbourhood.

Did your policeman friend manage to get your belongings out safely yet?

OW parents may not help you, but don't fret. Even if they don't OW will have to get on the defensive when she sees you are taking the fight to her doorstep.

Keep up the fight!

The last time I commented further on a forum I got banned! lol

And it was for posting something from THIS SITE lol

Allan and Vulcan, do you want advice on using Marriage Builders? Because it seems like you are interested in having a conversation with one another, which would be better suited to email or a messaging service.

Is there something we can help you with?

If you stay on topic and are not disruptive you shouldn't get banned.

We know each other from another forum. Once the hellos' and howyadoin's are overwith we will get on topic. I already replied in that respect with her.

I was advocating use of exposure in her situation and got banned for it... Apparently Harley's advice is not welcome on some marriage support forums despite its sound logic and proven track record...

I certainly hope advice on exposing an affair to the public is welcome here.

Yes it is. Very much so.

So Vulcan, are you dealing with an affair? How can we help you?

Allen and vulcan, welcome to Marriage Builders!

The PROBLEM with exposure is that it actually works in many cases to kill the affair and save the marriage. Unfortunately, many folks don't really want to kill the affair, so exposure is anathema to them.

Yes I do understand the hesitancy... No one likes public exposure of this kind not even the left behind spouse.

I think the hesitancy the LBS has to expose should help reveal a lot to the LBS about how powerful this strategy can be on the wayward spouse.

If the LBS is apprehensive about exposure the cheating spouse certainly should be!

There is an addictive issue such that the wayward spouse just at the time may not care... But it does put a kick of reality into the affair and take away a lot of excitement.

This is why I advocate it.

What Dr Harley article got you banned? Which site is it?

divorcebusting.com

The admin made it very clear in private to me that if a strategy I suggest is not in line with divorce busting principles as she interprets them that my posts are unwelcome.

I then posted a comment on the forum advocating exposure and putting the truth out there...

Censored and removed. Now my whole ip is blocked.

I feel like a left behind spouse who was just tossed out of her home! lol

I am ok with it... I am just shocked that divorcebusting.com is censoring exposure strategies from a professional family therapist!

Apparently Dr Harley's ideas don't give with Michele Davis!

I am not the only ip that has been banned by the admin. Others have commented on the forum and email about the rife censorship on that forum and they were summarilly banned as well... and their threads removed.

it's ok... I suspect several will be coming over here for help instead. I reccomended them come here.

Oh, the article was "Exposure : When should an affair be exposed"

That was removed as well... They didn't care for it at all...

We have a great FB exposure letter that we can post for you if needed. Let us know. FB exposures have been pretty effective against the OP!

I would love to read any samples yes...

Allen, the same thing would happen here if someone was suggesting that people use Davis' strategy instead of Harley's, it is the nature of a site dedicated to a certain method.

People who want to use Harley's advice should certainly be here, I can't imagine why they wouldn't?

I tend to think more open minded. I would think advice on the face of it would be welcomed anywhere... And let the forum posters assess it on the open forum.

I really don't see the need to ban advice simply because it comes from a third party source.

If the advice is destructive or really is abuse masked as advice I am with you... But rejecting advice simply because it doesn't fit with the forum owner smacks of censorship.

I don't see any value in censoring posts because their source is alternate from the primary.

I go to my mechanic for advice, but I welcome a second opinion when my car isn't working right.

Why limit advice to one source? Makes no sense...

Not everyone knows of Harley's advice... That's the problem. If you are on another marriage support forum like I was and suggest someone look at Harley's method

a. You get banned
b. Your thread gets removed
c. The visitor ends up FORCED to use one method since they didn't even hear about the alternatives.

My vote is to welcome other views and let the poster themself decide how they want to attack their marital problems.

That's the part that I object to is forum administration deciding for the poster what strategy they should use by censoring all others...

Smacks of communism!

Allen, how is it that you know of Dr. Harley's advice? What is your story?

A forum owner setting rules for their forum doesn't smack of communism to me, at all. People pay for the forums they run and have the right to set whatever standards they want; to me, violating that would be communism.

You will be much more welcome and productive over here, anyway. How did you find us?

No, it isn't communism. Information is available, but Marriage Builders is the sign on the door, they're the ones paying for the servers and this little piece of the internet for you. You are here because they LET you be here. If you want to set up your own forum, paid for out of your own pocket to discuss diverse Marriage philosophies, you're welcome and free to do so.

But here, we talk about Marriage Builders. Over at divorce busters, they talk about Davis' strategies.

Forums thrive on moderation. The chaos that descends without it KILLS forums. I say this having watched forums rise and fall over the last decade.


This is a fallacious argument. No one is FORCED to only hear one strategy. The web is huge and access to one site does not preclude you from going to others and hearing different information.

The visitor wasn't forced to be there; they have an open marketplace of ideas to select from. The internet is a much bigger place than one forum, thankfully.

How about a rousing debate about the efficacy of exposure? Better yet, how about you and V post your situations?

Filtering out information is censorship by definition.

I don't agree with restricting visitors advice to only one strategy.

It's censorship no matter how you decorate it up or excuse it.

I think we are getting off topic! lol

Allan,

Nice to find you here. I got deleted/banned with you and Puppy.

At least I'm in good company...

-Eeyore

Nothing wrong with censorship when other people are paying the bill. If you have a problem with restricting discussion to one strategy when YOU get the service for free, then you're going to have a problem here too. Here we talk about MARRIAGE BUILDERS. You have the right to practice free speech wherever YOU'RE paying the bill on your little patch of the internet. You don't like the rules here, make your own rules in your neck of the woods. That's the nice thing about the internet - it's big.

We are off topic - how can Marriage Builder's help you?

My story is that a year ago my wife finally ended a three year long on an off affair.

Exposure had a great deal to do with that.

Trying to share my experiences and my reading of Harley and Penny Tupy on the db forum lasted several months until someone complained to the moderator because they felt using exposure was "hurtful and vindictive" and I was asked to refrain from suggesting exposure to this person or anyone else on the forum

Got banned.. Now I am here.

The affair has left my home.. we are slowly working towards each other again.

OM is gone, got off scott free since he is single and reckless and everyone he knows doesn't care what a homewrecker he is...

Yup.. good to see you too ee!

Hows you and your wife doin right now?

What have you done to recover the marriage? When was DDay? When was NC established?

You won't get banned around here for discussing other marriage programs, but you will get in trouble if you post such things to newcomers who are here to get help on Marriage Builders. That is destructive and disruptive to the thread of a newcomer who comes here in dire straits.

The Harleys pay good money to provide a forum where people can get help for their marriages for free. That goal is impeded if someone comes on and posts destructive, contradictory advice to a newcomer. That will be censored, as it should.

I disagree with this one, but agree we are off topic.

I don't need help from MB, the affair is out of my house.

I expect you will be seeing others from **edit** arriving here soon too...

There's a rash of bannings and censorship going on there...

Meh. Not great, not bad, it just is.

May be moving into sex-starved territory. She's still here, and the A was busted after exposure a while back. She just doesn't feel like being affectionate or intimate.

MB isn't JUST about ending the affair. NOT by a long shot.

You DO need help from MB.

I've never had an affair affect my marriage, but using MB and posting on this forum has DRAMATICALLY improved my marriage.

MB is for everyone, not just affairs.

What is your purpose posting here, if not to share your story for the benefit of others, or to ask for help from others in bettering your marriage?

Good to hear how exposure worked for you. Are you familiar with Dr. Harley's ten basic concepts? What are you doing in slowly working toward each other again?

I've discussed the idea of using exposure to others outside of the MB forums. You'd be surprised (or probably not!) at the amount of resistance there is to that idea. Comments ranging from "it's their business, not ours" to "it's a great way to destroy a friendship", etc...

In those discussions, part of the problem tended to be the use of the term "exposure" which tends to lead persons to believe that it's being used in an attempt to harm and humiliate, not to bring an end to A-related activity.

Perhaps a better term to use might be "disclosure" which tends not to attract the same resistance, at least not initially

Some people do agree with that kind of restriction.

If you'll read the first amendment closely, it says you have the right to say whatever you want with your own printing press. It doesn't grant anyone the right to do that with other people's printing presses, although some people are nice and permit the use of their press (or website) under terms that are pleasing to themselves and the people they work with.

I don't fully agree with Vibrissa that forums thrive on moderation; I think forums thrive on an open marketplace where people who don't like the terms of one forum can establish a competing forum and everybody can get what they like. This encourages forum owners to be responsive to the desires of those they want to attract and serve. Sometimes this may mean moderation, sometimes it may mean less moderation, sometimes it may mean different standards of moderation.

I like this site's mission and the way it achieves it through moderation. The mission is up at the top: to discuss and learn Marriage Builders concept. That mission would be disrupted if moderation didn't keep us on task, and then the site would be less valuable to me. So I have to respect another site's desire to spend their resources how they like.

But you are right; we are far off topic. Thanks for posting a bit about your situation; I encourage you and all the newcomers you have brought to start your own threads and tell your stories and let us discuss and learn Marriage Builders together so we can see how it can help you. Truth is, in all these discussions, I am actually helping MYSELF figure out how to put these concepts into my own marriage.

Exposure rules

Censorship drools

But how is recovery going? Ending the affair is only the beginning of the battle.

I don't know how it is for you, but if my wife were to be unfaithful, I would not be willing to take her back without complete recovery, which for me includes both of us falling in love passionately with each other again. I would want my wife to make up for what happened, and I would not be willing to continue if she would not do that.

Have you read Dr. Harley's article on Just Compensation?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042b_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042c_qa.html

It's been a year for me ee and we still aren't intimate.

That takes a lot of time, particularly once an affair gets sexual.

Keep up the fight.

Eeyore, I suggest you start a new thread for yourself and tell your story. Marriage Builders can help with sex-starved territory. At the beginning of the year, sexual experiences with my wife were a terror more often than not, and it seemed I was running into constant rejection of everything I asked for. We started the Marriage Builders program and she ranked Sexual Fulfillment at the very bottom of her priority of emotional needs. Now after several months, she desires sex enough that I can't keep up with her and she not only grants my requests, she seems to just read my mind and figure out what I want.

Based on this you DO need marriage builders. Ending the affair isn't enough. What has been done to recover?

No, employ the MB program, in its entirety.

Will you folks start your own threads, and use MB?

We're working on it...

Just navigating discussions right now.. It will settle in soon not to worry... we just arrived.. you don't want to scare people off on their first day here do you? lol

My purpose here is both to learn, and to help others.

I have invited others here from another forum where exposure talk has become highly unwelcome.

We will split threads up soon... just doing a meet and greet for the moment here to regroup.

I expect more to arrive over the next few days... all eager to learn more about using exposure effectively.

Trying to discuss it where we were has gotten us banned.

I'm glad you've found MB

Be careful V, I saw your post on db forum.. you are gonna get the boot like Puppy and I did.. not just your account but your IP as well

Settle on in, we're glad you're here since you already believe in the program. Please read the top of the page, here's a clip of the (imho) important part for you and your pals:

Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts.

I am fine with discussion and counterargument.

The db forum was not. They wanted no argument about exposure - period.

They won't even allow a debate about it so people can learn why its so terrible... Won't even hear it.

I welcome alternative viewpoints and I appreciate that they need hammered out a bit and that just gives people more insight when they see someone offer counterargument.

The arguments are as much a way to learn as reading a simple article...

Arguments refine thought... And people learn watching that process happen.

When you shut down that process, you shut down learning.

That is what I objected to on the db forum and what I was ultimately banned for.

Over here exposure is generally accepted conventional wisdom, along with the other Marriage Builders concepts promulgated by the Marriage Builders founder, Dr. Willard Harley. Dr. Harley pays to put the site up, so typically in each person's thread they will be encouraged by other folks to consider how exposure could help them. They might push back with their objections, and will usually receive answers more specific to their situation.

What we don't like is when on someone's thread they are being encouraged to expose and they are expressing their doubts, and somebody jumps in, counter to Marriage Builders and counter to Dr. Harley, and agrees with their doubts and encourages them not to expose! Since Dr. Harley is paying for the forum and he has expressed the purpose here is to learn Marriage Builders, he doesn't like folks to be dissuading people from using this program. In addition to lively debate from regular posters, people who persist in that kind of behavior usually find themselves moderated and eventually banned.

The same is true for ALL of the Marriage Builders concepts, not just exposure. And there is much more to this program than just exposure or just ending an affair. Marriage Builders is about creating marriages full of romantic love, which most people I know believe fades after two years or so. Many of us are using the program to restore, increase, or maintain romantic love in our marriages even when there has been no affair. We've also seen people who just settled for bringing a wayward spouse home after an affair and didn't go all the way with the program and restore romantic love; these people are usually in for great heartache, and we want to spare them that. The typical scenario for recovery (including restoration of romantic love) after an affair, if the program is engaged in actively and without modifications, is about two years. We don't want to see people languish year after year in sexless loveless marriages to someone who cheated on them, hoping to get thrown a few crumbs now and then and hoping some magic will make things better.

Generally, everybody is encouraged to ask their questions and express their objections so they can see why we here feel like each point of the Marriage Builders program is the best way to do things. But they are discouraged from disrupting someone else's thread with their own objections. The purpose of the site is to learn Marriage Builders; not to pick and choose from many different programs.

The cool thing is there is enough information on this site to implement the Marriage Builders program free.

Here is a helpful thread for betrayed folks new to Marriage Builders: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240

On the db forum what I had recommended if anyone disagreed with a practice in general to open a thread and we would hammer out there... And that leaves each posters thread focused on their situation.

That's the thing... If I saw a poster disagree in geenral about exposure, I moved the convo to its own thread. If I saw a poster disagree how it fits that situation, you can hammer out there as it will only open up the person's marriage details and allow free info to flow...

I didn't care for general debates about the usefulness of a strategy to sit on personal threads either..

But what I objected to and was banned for was having a debate about the principles at all... It wasn't allowed.

Correction.. It was allowed because the mods weren't helping anyone on teh forum and I "got away with it" until someone objected because they didn't like Harley's argument and got miffed.

They alerted the mod.

I refused to keep quiet.

I was banned. lol

They won't allow any debate about exposure there. I would like to think Harley's princples would entertain some challenge in order for people to learn.. as long as it is in its own thread.

From my experience if someone doens't want to open their idea up for debate its usually because the idea doesn't stand up in public debate...

I realize this can get to excess and name calling etc can ensue.. i am not at all about that.

I am good with Harley's policies as long as my input is at least welcome on the face of it...

And I welcome challenges to anything I have to say... openly welcome them.

That's the problem with the db forum.. they don't tolerate debate there...

Either you push the strategies or you get off the forum.. period. No discussion or personal input is tolerated... Particularly on the subject of exposure.

I have seen my marriage almost go into the toilet due to this Draconian approach to forum management... very distasteful.

If your marriage is in the toilet it is due to the affair. Not the policies of an online discussion forum.

If your marriage fails to recover it is because you and your spouse didn't put into place a plan and protections to ensure that recovery.

Not because of the policies of an online discussion forum.

What is your plan Allan?

You say there is no physical intimacy in your marriage yet you are a year out from NC. It sounds like you're limping along. Now that you are here, are you willing to try MB to improve your marriage?

For a 3rd time: what have you done to recover your marriage?

Your marriage didn't almost go into a toilet over any approach to internet forum management.

You and your wife put it in the toilet. Not some anonymous mod. Don't blame the internet for personal choices.

Sorry guys, you don't have the details... It WAS the forum's handling of things that pushed my wife to the brink

Please don't speak without the details.. YOU weren't there, I was

Well

Seeing as you won't actually GIVE details, just gripe and blame your problems on others...

I'm sorry YOU AND YOUR WIFE are responsible for the state of your marriage. NO ONE else - well maybe the OM.

Is it possible you got bad advice? Probably, but the internet has a wealth of information available to you. You obviously knew about MB but chose to use the Divorce Buster's program. That was your choice.

In order to fix this mess you will have to accept responsibility for your choices.

I really cannot conceive of how a forum moderator is to blame for the state of your marriage.

So your wife was posting and they FORCED her to cheat on you? How does that happen? I think you may have a kidnapping and rape charge to press...

wow

And because your imagination is that limited you chose to attack me?

Wow.. that's great support you offer...

Wow, more attacks...

Allan

Do you want help, or do you want to complain.

You're posting a lot, but you aren't answering questions.

This place is big on personal responsibility. You can't fix what you wont admit was broken and no one can help you if you don't explain your situation. You say we don't know the whole story. Why not instead of complaining about attacks, you actually TELL US THE STORY so we can know what is going on.

I won't support someone who choses to blame a forum moderator for their marriage state, when they give NO DETAILS as to how that actually occurred. Since I don't know how things happened, and I CANNOT REASONABLY CONCEIVE of how an anonymous internet entity substantially contributed to the destruction of your marriage more so than you or your wife did, I am left to assume that you are scapegoating someone else for your problems.

Please! ENLIGHTEN me rather than getting your back up.

Is it possible you guys just may be underestimating how much more complicated a poorly managed forum has made my marriage?

is that within the realm of your imagination that maybe.. just maybe... He's upset with a forum for its involvement in jeapordizing his marriage?

I come here for support, whether its a third party interloper attacking my mariage, my mother in law, or an internet forum you guys I don't think should be supporting the partly thusly connected by me as causing a great deal of problems for me and my wife.

Is this how you handle it when a third party starts contaminating a marriage too? Show up and argue a case for the other person and attack the forum poster?

Seriously guys, you need to relax and not get so judgmental without hearing details first...

I, the one here, would like the benefit of the doubt for the moment.. would that be ok with you please?

If someone came to me and said an interloper, thier mother in law, or an internet forum has made their marriage hell I would support them... Them being the ones there for support...

Isn't that what's supposed to happen here? Take the person's post at face value and offer what help you can?

And you say "maybe" the OP has some responsibility for the state of my marriage.. MAYBE?

Seriously?

Maybe we all should get our backs down and stop attacking.

I just don't like being second guessed after only being here for four hours.

If you don't want to hear my complaints don't read my thread... I have to take responsability for my marriage, I live in my home. The third party skips off stress free to violate another home now... He's done his damage here and now he's moving on...

I am not blaming HIM solely for the state of my marriage, but I would appreciate not being second guessed for holding others accountable for their contaminating actions as well.

You appear to want to drop the whole thing on my head and give everyone else a free pass...

Did it ever occur to you that I don't want to show up on a forum and drop my life out in the open in my first day here.. I want to get to know the people I am sharign with first?

And frankly I am not impressed with people supporting third parties or giving them "maybe" a free pass with no accountability for three years of damage preying on my home.

Allen instead of attacking us can you please give us the story and details? We can not help you if we do not know what to help with.

You are typing a lot but saying nothing.

Please tell us your story and tell us what you need help with.

Allan,

Frankly who cares about the other forum, time to stop talking about it, this one works, at least it did for me.

And yes there are many forums where the tone is to blame the victim and make the victimized feel guilty, but not this one.

It's been a year for me ee and we still aren't intimate. That takes a lot of time, particularly once an affair gets sexual.

Do you believe your W is still not longing for OM if this is the case?

God Bless
Gamma

I'm not supporting a third party. I, however, cannot think of any way that third party ruined your marriage.

Your spouse's affair ruined your marriage. Your lack of recovery has ruined your marriage.

I don't want to dump it on your head and yours alone. But typically the state of a marriage is the result of the choices of 2 people and 2 people only: those IN the marriage. Third parties are influences for good or bad, but only the 2 involved in the marriage can affect the state OF that marriage, by the choices they make in responses to those outside stimuli.

Waiting for details.

Sorry Vibrissa but I don't by the suggestion that OP cannot affect the state of the marriage.

Sorry, but I don't buy that.

I think once I third party gets involved its three people driving the marriage, not just two... And getting it back to two is the first step.

I don't buy this letting the third party off easy thing... I own my bad choices in my marriage. I own my part in my marriage being vulnerable to an affair.. I largely brought it to that state.

But once a third party covertly began to drive my wife away and she started listening that was theirs. I wasn't even privy to its happening for several weeks. I can't take responsibility for something I don't even know is going on.

I am fine with doing work. I am fine with owning my marriage, but within four ours of registering I have people on my case telling me "maybe" the third party had something to do with my marriage taking a beating and that anything involving an internet forum has nothing to do with the state of my marriage.

Outside influences can and do a lot of damage.

I am not finger pointing. I am aware of my bad choices. If I didn't think I was to blame for anything I would have ended things as soon as I found out I was being two-timed.

You can't fight for your marriage without taking ownership.. Not effectively anyways.

Maybe I don't want to offer details yet. Maybe I just want to read for a while and see what kind of people are responding?

I wouldn't walk into a family therapists office and open my marriage up immediately ether. I would spend the first two or three sessions getting to know the FT and how they go about their work.. Kick the Tires if you will... And that's for a professional who does this full time with a license.

My day yesterday started out with my being banned for advocating a strategy I first learned about from here. I invited others here who wanted to explore it further since it wasn't welcome elsewhere... That's it...

No details... Just me, reading and inviting others to come here for perhaps better support... I will withhold judgment for a while and my details...

But I do resent reading of Third party interlopers being offered free passes on a marriage support forum... Not a good first impression I'm afraid.

Thanks

An OP as in a physically or emotionally present OP who is affecting/influencing the actions of a WS are very much considered an offender on this forum.

OPs as in other forums where you have received non-MB advice are not.

Are we having the same conversation??

Did your wife post on the Other Forum and did they encourage her to cheat on you?

But - there is NO POINT in focusing on a third party. Even when that third party is the affair partner, rebuilding cannot begin until that person is out of the picture.

Sometimes that affair partner gets off scott free - free to destroy someone else's marriage. Did he/ she help destroy the marriage? Yes, but it was the WAYWARD SPOUSE'S behavior that afforded them that opportunity. Once you've done all you can to alert your community that the Affair Partner is dangerous, you need to let them go.

They're not getting a free pass - they just aren't important in the recovery process. Your wife's OM is irrelevant now. He is out of your life, time to stop wasting energy on him. Time to focus on you and your wife and your marriage.

Similarly, there are toxic outside influences that can damage a marriage, in-laws, friends, etc. It is the CHOICES you and your wife make that ALLOW these people influence. The problem isn't the people, the problem is the choices that you and your wife make that let these people into your life.

Focusing on parties OUTSIDE the marriage don't help your marriage. I'm not supporting them, I'm saying they DON'T MATTER to your recovery, which is about you and your wife and YOUR choices.

Some people can influence your wife for good, make CHOICES to ALLOW those people into your life. They can help better your marriage, but if your marriage is better, it is because of the CHOICE you two made to allow them to help you.

An internet forum only has as much power over your marriage as you ALLOW it to have. Ultimately the choices you make and your wife makes belong to YOU.

My mother committed adultery. She has modeled adulterous behavior all my life. If I cheat on my husband is it the fault of her influence? Of course not. I would have MADE THE CHOICE to be influenced by her. Unless she holds a gun to my head and makes me sleep with a man not my husband, she cannot bear responsibility for MY CHOICES.

Your OM takes responsibility for his part in the destruction of your marriage, but he was ALLOWED to do that by YOUR WIFE. So now, focus on your wife, because SHE was the one who made the choice to allow OM into your lives.

If I read correctly, this thread was just an introduction to alert anyone who knew Allan from over there that he is on this forum now.

Allan and I, along with several other new forum members, just got here today after a bad experience with another forum.

On the other forum, even our goodbyes were deleted by the moderators, so people on the other forum do not know we came over here.

For those who can not wait for my own thread, here is the Cliff's Notes version of my sitch:

- M 16 years, 3 children (D4,S6,S9).
- W had online A with M man she met on FB.
- Exposed to family and close friends, busted A.
- During exposure period, admitted to W that I had A 17+ years ago before we were M, when we were dating. No A on my side during our M.
- W now says she can not forgive my A 17+ years ago, and isn't sure she wants to work on the M.
- Still together, sharing a bedroom and bed. No affection or intimacy from W.

Please save your comments and suggestions for my own thread. I do not wish to hijack Allan's thread, and I'm not ready to discuss here until I get to know you better.

There will be plenty of time for all of us to post our own stories and start to contribute to the group; for me at least, today is just for orientation and introductions. Once I feel welcome, I will post more of my story, ask for advice and share what has and hasn't worked for me so far. I'm not there yet.

If this forum is going to be as aggressive and confrontational right off the bat as it has been so far today, this may not be the right place for me, either.

Eeyore, just want to say welcome, I'm sorry you're here. MB can help you restore your marriage.

Welcome to the forum, eeyore! We're glad to have you all here.

Welcome! Best place to come if you want to save your marriage, if my husband didn't come here I would be half across the world with some lousy lo-life OM...SHIIIVVVERS!! YUCK!

Read everything on this site, then you can ask questions.

Allan, it's not customary around here for us to help people avoid responsibility for the lot they have made in life.

You can recover your marriage. Not just keep your wayward wife in the door and not seeing anyone else, but recover the entire relationship, the love, the infatuation, the joy, and the sex. Would you like some help?

Nobody here gives a free pass to third party interlopers. Such as the man your wife had an affair with, for example. Most people here are pretty merciless to such folks as long as they are unrepentant, actually.

I think the deal is, most of us aren't buying the idea that the moderator of an online forum was an interloper in your marriage. Unless that is who your wife had an affair with?

Hey Allan and friends, you might want to also check out the Marriage Builders radio show. Dr Harley and Mrs Harley have a radio show every week day from 1 to 2cst where they talk about marriage and take questions from callers and emailers. You can send them an email and Dr Harley will answer your question on the air. You get a free book too. Marriage Builders Radio show

Bull.

He's taken no resonsability.. He walked out and left me and my wife to clean up the mess he and my wife made.

He's taking no responsability.. please stop.. you aren't convincing.

Well said ee

Now I'm avoiding resonsability?

Wow... you guys really know how to invite someone to open up... I should just give the OM a call and ask him for advice.

please stop posting to my thread if you are going to be confrontational and abuse people... if you are going to make accusations and support OP violating marriages please taken it elsewhere... I don't want that on my thread.

Hey, Allan,

I saw the part about not being intimate in a year and I guess I have a knee-jerk reaction to that...and it makes me worry about contact.

Has NC been established? Does your W work or see OM at all in any capacity? Do they work at the same company (even in separate buildings)? Do you have a keylogger set up to check and make sure she isn't looking him up on FB etc? Have all momentos from the affair (notes, cards, pictures) etc been destroyed?

Allan, welcome to MarriageBuilders.

I have not read this entire thread. Frankly, the first page or two of the back and forth conjecture and assumptions and misstatements regarding the finer points of online discussion forums is not really what I'm here for.

I think you would agree, no?

So here's what I suggest:

Use this thread to post your story. Post relevant details, where the M is now, and what you would like to improve upon. (Improve yourself, your M, etc.)

See how it goes.

I'm following you Allen...post:34 It is weird coming from like 7,000's?

Remember me. The OM is the supermarket manager.

BTW I just saw today OMW for the first time in 2 years. I will start a tread or will try to find an old one that I left behind in this forum.

I'm not supporting your OM or others who intrude on marriage. The OM bears some blame but you can't MAKE him take responsibility and wasting energy on him is just that... A waste. Your time is better spent building your marriage.

Allan, and friends. Welcome to MB.

Since this is your first day here at MB, might I suggest that you take a look around. Understand that there is a lot of help here. We will NOT however, hold your hand and say, "there there dear, it will be alright." We WILL, however, help you learn MB principles and concepts and help you learn ways to implement them in your own life.

You are NOT responsible for the infidelity in your marriage, unless YOU had an affair. You are however, responsible for 50% of the state of your marriage BEFORE the affair.

There is much debate and many posts about how mean the posters here are and how unwelcoming we are. I will put it to you this way, you just walked into our home, took your shoes off, put your feet on the coffee table and decided that you wouldn't even introduce yourselves or learn any of customs and "rules." How would YOU welcome someone like that into your HOME? This is what we think of MB. It has been here for many of us during our darkest moments.

Again, welcome. Please start by reading here to learn more about us. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240

Hi Allen,
June72 here. I have not posted to DB in ages but have always been following along. I am really bothered by the DB site administrator's behavior of removing people's threads and banning others for not following in complete unison with MWD thoughts are concerning infidelity. Why just today there is a poster in the infidelity site, HopelessinLove, whose wife in in a confirmed PA affair, he is stating today that the DB phone coach told him that after his exposure he should help his wife more with the chores!!! Seriously!
Worse, people posting that they were upset that you and Puppy were banned had their posts erased almost immediately. I think I will be refering to that DB site as the new "China"- lol! Seriously, posts have been dissappearing all day long!
Anyhow, I posted on the Divorce Busting FB page that I am saddened by what has transpired on the Message Board. The wall response (for all to see is that no one has been banned!-lol!)

Anyhow, folks, Allen is amazing. He is like a walking encyclopedia of facts and statistics from all the marriage experts. He has read all the books and he and another poster Puppy Dog Tails were life savers for the people over there.
Such a shame.

I think if Allen is not ready or wishes to wait to share his own story I think then he should definitely be left alone, IMO. When he feels ready I am sure he will post his own story. I actually do think I know some of it from all his posts and this man is awesome- he really has stood for the marriage.

BTW, it is true, MWD does not allow disagreeing opinions concerning infidelity and posted a letter last week stating how it ruined one couples chances of recovery b/c the betrayed spouses family found out about the husband's sex addition. She has a "Bo-Peep" method, as coined by fellow DBer's Do not tell people, and try to be the better option or wait the affair out. I never could get how you can outshine the other person all exciting and new.

Best

That sounds an awful lot like Plan A here. Are you advocating NOT meeting the needs of a wayward spouse while trying to save a marriage?

Hi Dgtal and June... Great seeing you guys here... Let me get caught up...

This thread is a reunion and discussion of events that happened in another forum. I do not understand why you have come here to post about DB.

This forum is Marriage Builders. We are here to help you apply MB concepts to your marriage.

Please, no more talk about events on DB.

Censorship? Again? Seriously?

MB. Again. Seriously.

Let's do MB here. Are you here to get help with MB concepts?

For I don't know how many times now. I am here to read. I am here to welcome anyone from the db forum here who is fed up with their censorship BS, and I am here to learn.

I do not wish to discuss my marriage right now. I just GOT here... you guys need to learn how to welcome people better.. honestly... and i thought I was pushy.

I think I am just gonna start a new thread... This is ridiculous lol

You are absolutely correct this IS ridiculous. RFB?

Are you here to read and to learn about MB? That is what this forum is for.

All new posters are welcomed here, as you have all been, by many people.

If you are here to read and learn, you can do that without opening a thread to discuss "censorship" and your treatment on another forum.

You do not have to discuss your marriage. You do not have to post at all, if your interest is in reading and learning. Many people read here for a while before posting. I did for two years.

Then read everything on this site, then when you are ready by all mean post.

In the mean time lets have this guy read this web site. Please no more posts about saving his marriage when he is ready he will ask.

Allan this is my last post to you until you have any questions about saving your marriage and using the MB concepts ok?

Good luck.

P.S once you are ready to start posting, I highly recommend you start a new thread TY and Welcome

I tried to read and learn but I was getting bullied with borderline abusive conjecture about my marriage.. presumably this was to prompt me to open up or some such...

I think I am just going to move my thread into General Discussion.. someone's exchanging cooking recipes over there... maybe I will be more welcome there...

Wow, THANK YOU Sapphire.. THAT is how its done people.. is that so hard?

Thank you again... for I think the first time I actually feel welcome.

Let's end this bickering, please, and get back to the business of marriage building! If you have a complaint about another poster, please click the notify button and let the moderators handle it. Don't make me break out my censor button!

Thank you all for your cooperation!

OK guys, I made another thread here for dgtal, eeyore, june, vulcanized, and anyone else that's looking for me.

Please send them on over here... people are trading recipes in General Discussion, lets hope we won't meet with too much trouble there :

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2432810&#Post2432810

I personally feel very unwelcome here folks! I think I will refrain from posting and just observe. I mean does this site not allow casual chitchat? No, I really am asking, I do not know.
My very first post and I get basically flamed. Yikes!
Blah!

All the best folks... take care!

I started a new thread June.. lets let this one die a slow death at the end of the queue..

june, people are most certainly welcome to casually chitchat. However, THE most high-trafficked board here, SAA, is more a triage unit for folks who are, well, actively surviving an affair. In addition, you will find many vets there who have successfully survived infidelity (whether M'd or D'd at the end of it all) who continue to help new posters.

So when somebody starts a new thread there, and is a new poster at that, the typical occurrence is that the new poster is, in fact, seeking help for their marriage in light of infidelity.

If that is not the case, no one has a problem with that. I think the move to GQ is a good one, and will echo the advice to continue perusing this site at your leisure.

Oops - bumped it.

Sheesh Allen, I think I am just going to observe and really not post. I did want to tell you that Jin was upset and I think was interested in posting elsewhere. I hope she finds her way here. She has just made a comment that her thread was gone and why would that be and her post on that was immediately removed-lol! There was nothing at all negative in her post. Too funny, seriously, I'm not kidding.

Years back when the crisis occurred I had looked at the MB forum
and read all over the place but knew the abbreviations at DB so I stuck with reading the info over there. Anyhow, I always have been a big fan of the Harley books and info. I loved His Needs Her Needs- one of my favorites. So sweet, months after my hubby and I reconciled after his 14 month in-house separation, he had asked if he was meeting my needs. I thought it was so sweet... this from a man that spewed how much he hated me for so long. He couldn't stand me, oh all sorts of mean nasty horrible words. Total 180.

I just read the compensation article suggested here. I did read it years ago but it really sticks with me now. I totally get this. I at times have felt like I am in the "man down" position since all this went down. Does that make any sense? That feeling is fading b/c I have held my hubby's feet to the fire about what transpired and he has manned up and is really starting to own his own cr@p and making visable changes. I don't think I could move forward with him if he did have some changes of his own...


OK, anyhow, like I was pretty much on the DB boards... I am just going to observation mode and pop in on a rare occasion.

Back to radio silence....

It's ok for now June, just read and enjoy a chance to keep in touch wtih everyone and learn some new strategies.

I realize I should have posted here now.. but it took them three pages of posts to get around to suggesting it. And I was the one that had to do it lol

I posted in the wrong forum, I can own that... It's all fixed, lets let this thread go and get the refugee one some hits from a few more db forum members

Hi Allan_A

Love your work !

(edit)

Its not for ME 'cos MB saved my marriage and I use MB in my marriages ministry that I run , but I can imagine its a good place for folks who want to feel free to discuss ANYTHING ,or at least rest awhile.

This place is "MB only" for front-line advising not because of some fascist diktat but because MB is proven, and can be applied as a standard PLAN even by people experiencing the worst time of their lives. Competing strategies really do seem to just muddy the water for the newly betrayed on the "surviving an affair" board ( which is like our emergency dept).

Its not really a great place for philosophical debate, however interesting. Having advocates of more passive marriage building approaches felt like having a homeopath in the emergency room: "All very interesting but excuse me while we restart this guys heart" kind of thing.

Now I have come to consider some non-Harley works to be quite brilliant ( Eggerichs "Love and Respect" for one) but I won't offer that to a hurting person fighting an affair.

Delighted to welcome you here, but I would have you know how it is right up front so you are not disappointed.

all blessings

Thank you Bob.

edit link

The DB members have my email now so they can (and I encourage) them to contact me directly.

Hi Allan and Bob,

I've been wanting to share something and this seems as good a time and place to do it.

Like Bob and Squid, MB concepts helped save our M (story linked to sig line) and Bob's posts were some of the most inspirational for us, even if he was on a self-imposed hiatus at the time. (Jan. 2007) We were not able to implement ALL of the MB concepts at once (and some not at all) but it still worked for us.

Best wishes on your endeavors, Bob and Allan.

Ace

P.S. - Edited to add: Even if we couldn't use all of MB, I'm glad we were able to benefit.

You can email me directly June... More than happy to hear from you and everyone else.. I can get you in touch with PDT if you like as well.