I'm wondering about myself lately, and wondered if anyone else is afraid to venture out for fear of their heart being hurt.

I have had one relationship since my divorce, and it has not left me bitter, but just afraid.

Since this broke off almost 4 months ago now, I have gone on two dates with the same guy. Immediately he became very complimentary and very interested in me and it scared me away, so much so that I told him I couldn't go out on anymore dates with him.

I think there was more to it in all honesty. I think I was lacking something as far as he was concerned, but I do worry for myself.
I worry that I won't be able to put myself out there again, or allow myself to feel those emotions.

Anyone else feel like this?

Thanks,
Karona

The fast and quick answer is no Karona.....

Think about it.

If you imagine the worst possible outcome of a relationship (which we have experienced) what can anyone else do to hurt you worse than that?

Nothing is the answer.

I guess I could relate this to my boxing days for effect.

I had over 100 fights as a boxer, as a golden glover and Military fighter I was 121-1. Took a butt load of punches, and a heap of abuse. I ached for days and weeks after some fights but I kept going back.

Why you may ask? Because I already knew what the worst outcome could be and embraced it. I already felt the pain so I knew what that was like intimately.

I knew the next guy couldn't do anything to me I hadn't already felt and experienced in the ring.

Ergo, I KNOW the next WOMAN can't do anything to me I haven't already felt or experienced in love.

Does that make sense to you?

Go out, release your fear and anxiety, take a chance, eat cotton candy at the fair and ride the whip with someone then go get a funnel cake.

You never know unless you step up and try.

I'm with you Karona..I'm very much ready to just forget it all.

I've tried putting on the happy face and putting myself out there time and time again...and each time it still stings.

There is no right or wrong answer...you have to do whatever you feel YOU are ready for. Brace yourself for the worse and be delighted with the best should it happen. Easier said than done I know...but life does go on whether we like it or not.

Hugs
Alluring

Oh Alluring, we seem to be in the same spot.

I know what you mean about the happy face! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I can't say that I'm miserable being alone, and its what I needed, but I do worry that I won't open up again. Maybe its as simple as the right guy hasn't stepped into my life yet.


Reborn,
I have been wondering about you. I haven't seen your name around here in awhile.

As I've been going through this process, I have thought about some of the advice you given me previously, it's been helpful, and I re-read it when I'm struggling.

I understand what your saying, and your right, there is no way I can be hurt more than I have been. But, in this recent experience, it scared me to death the minute this guy was super nice. I wanted to run. [ultimately, I guess I did] One very positive out of it though, it made me realize that there are other nice guys out there, and it has allowed me to stop thinking so much of xbf!

By the way, I'm impressed with the boxing!! I would have never guessed.

Can I ask though, do you compare physical pain to heart ache? I have never experienced the physical like your speaking of, but this heart stuff cuts pretty deep.

I like the fair idea. It sounds so innocent! Ahh to be young again.

Thanks,
Karona

I have hopes that this is the case for both of us. Time will tell as usual. I try to not be cynical but its hard!

I'm here to talk to or just vent to whenever you need to. My emails are below if you want to use either of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Alluring. I just may do that someday.
Sometimes it just helps to know your not alone. I appreciate your kindness!

K!

Hey Karona,

I wouldn't have posted if not for seeing your name to be truthful...it seems I am not much in need of what is offered here...kinda muddled my way through it all you might say.

It is scary Karona, the idea that our emotions are attached to anothers acceptance of them.

The THOUGHT is scary.

The reality is the emotions are ours to give as we see fit, not the acceptance of those emotions.

New age gobbeldy [censored]?

No, the truth is this, the power of what we are willing to give to others IS the power we have over ourselves.

Enough of that, I'll answer the real question.

When you found out, when d-day occured, what is your physical description?

Like a kick to the gut?

Like a punch to the head?

We all used them, the cliche's that is....

The physical pain was easier than the emotional to be honest..once a bruise disapears it is gone for good. Once the swelling of a black eye goes away it is forgotten.

The emotional baggage is another animal entirely...that is the brutal stuff.

Anyway Karona, I used the fair reference for a reason, what you are doing is innocent and new, fresh and exciting...I take every date, every new contact as a fair date.....a ride on the whip, some custard and a maybe some cotton candy in the end if all goes well.

Karona, don't be too impressed by my boxing...go to the MB photo album and you will see that it wasn't without consequence <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Honestly though, I was a small child, very small until I was in 8th grade and suddenly I grew to manly proportions and took an interest because I was tired of getting beat up. I had a history teacher (my favorite class to this day) that had a boxing background and encouraged me and became a father figure to me.

When I was offered a spot on the boxing team while in the service I jumped on it (long story)

I knew it would never be a vocation but I relished the mano-a-mano nature of the sport...I was only defeated once and honestly it was my fault for leaving my button open for pushing.

Enough of "realing through the years" for now...

Cotton candy, sausage sandwiches and wonderful futures for now OK?

Karona, the pain and fear is what we make of it, not what our opponents or spouse choose for us...

Too obscure or does it make sense?

RM

I really appreciate it RM! That means a lot to me.

I understand what you are saying. I sometimes feel that I have come further than I think when reading here. Sometimes, I feel I'm past some of the "stuff", but every now and again, something pops up, and I feel the urge to reply, I guess kind of like you.
I can't imagine ever leaving the boards though. This place/[or people] have been a strength for me in ways that go beyond words.

[/quote] When you found out, when d-day occured, what is your physical description?

Like a kick to the gut?

Like a punch to the head?
[/quote]

I remember it like it was today. Everything drained out of my body, it was a blow to my stomach, and it took me two days to be able to breath.

It does have a long lasting effect indeed! A real animal as you say.



I like it!
You do have a way with descriptions!!

I would like to see the album. I'm a bit of a moron I guess because I don't know how to find it. Can you guide me there?

Anyway, yes, it makes sense! And, if I were to take it all literally, I would never get a date after eating all the good stuff!!

I'm thinking I may remember something about you. Have I read somewhere long ago that you were/are from Ohio??
If so, that's why I think your so great. I was raised there, Northeastern!

Thanks RM! You have given me a smile!
K!

"Maybe its as simple as the right guy hasn't stepped into my life yet."

No, it isn't that simple. Until you are ready to open your heart again, you will never see the right guy, because you'll never let him close enough to get a good look at him.

What you are feeling is natrual. We've all been hurt and, though our rational mind may be ready to move on, the heart has a long memory and a completely different agenda.

If, after considerable time has past since your divorce, you feel ready and try and fail repeatedly to open your heart to love again, or if you cannot shake the fear of being hurt, it means that you are stuck in the grieving process. If you cannot deal with this and move on, you should talk with someone trained in helping people resolve grief.

Check,

Points well taken!

I'd say there is truth in what you are saying.
The desire is there, so I'm hopeful that it is a matter of letting myself open up.

I know that there are quality men, worthy of the giving of my heart again. I guess I would like to have the short cut.
For him to appear, and not go through the hard stuff.
I bet I'm not alone in that line of thinking!

Thanks for the reminders,
K!

Hi Karona!
Well, I guess you know I'm not too afraid, because I'm out there. Yes, I was afraid after my D, and indeed took some time for myself. Then when I started dating, I was cautious with my heart. I tend to be more logical then emotional anyway, which is good sometimes.... I think it protects me from pain... but it also keeps me from joy too sometimes. But when I started dating my xBF of 2 years, it took a little while to begin trusting myself, and trusting my heart, and trusting the R enough to "feel" those feelings, and expose my heart. I guess I eventually did . Being a logical, cautious person is a curse sometimes, beccause I get in my own way, as I mentioned. I loved him, and loved our R, but I knew I never let myself totally trust it, because it wasn't everything I wanted. Will I ever find it? I dunno. Am I afraid to look? NO I'm striving to learn to balance my logic and emotion... that trust of myself and others because I really don't want to be alone forever. I'm ok alone. I can keep myself busy and all that. But I really want to share my life with someone.

So, to answer your question... I'm trying to relate and think about myself in regards to your question. Finding the balance between putting our heart out there enough to TRY... and keeping a proper GUARD on our heart (logic?)... is the hard part.

The guy that you went on 2 dates with... could you not be honest with him? ... and say... "I'm uncomfortable and need to slow down. Slow wayyyyyy down. Just give me some time." And give him an oppurtunity to decide what to do... maybe he could build your trust and comfort level. Maybe he would surprise you.

Just some thoughts.
hugs,
Faith1

I like your idea, Faith1. Feel with your heart, but think with your head and think about what your heart is feeling, not feel about what you head is thinking. But you have to strike a balance, which is what I call the "walk in the forest " analogy. It's a beautiful day and you want to take a walk in the forest. You start out, but are fearful of all the potential "dangers" there. So you creep around, looking around every tree to see what is lurking there. In doing so you come out of the forest safe and sound, but have completely missed the beauty and peace of it.

Hi Faith,

I believe that is where I'm at. I want to put myself out there, but not too far, too soon.
I want to try, but not give it all up, not until I know I feel safe, which, isn't that where I should be??

Concerning this guy. This may sound incredibly dumb, but I just wanted someone to do this dating thing with. I just wanted it to be light/casual kind of thing. I didn't go into it thinking it was going to be a romance. I had felt I needed to try dating, and that was my intention.
To try to get my casualness across to him, I told him I wanted to pay for myself, and I did both times. I wanted it to be light and easy. If something were to have come from it, then I would have been surprised.
He also was very honest about how he felt concerning me, and gave me these huge compliments. And yes it felt good, but...
I told him I needed to go slow and that I found I was guarding myself, to that he said he understood. But, he also came back and said, he found himself thinking of me all the time.[after 2X of very casual dates] I felt unfair not feeling more and he was feeling these other things. That was the point where I decided I had to stop accepting dates. As much as he said he understood, it seemed as though he was putting his heart out there concerning me. Or, quite possibly, that's just who he is. The kind of guy that gives compliments easily.

My thoughts concerning him and I were that we were too different based on a couple things that were said. It did really bother me though, that he seemed like a genuinely good guy with a lot to offer, and my lack of feelings concerning him. That was when I started thinking, do I have a problem????

All in all though, I'm glad I met him, and went out. It was a good experience, and this was an on-line guy.

As far as the trust thing. I believe that I have figured out that I can trust again. I did with my xbf, and I do think this guy was trustworthy. I think it comes down to trusting myself to make the "right" decision. I think what I'm terrified of at this point is failure.

And Check, interesting thought! I think I'm guilty!!

Thanks to you both!
Karona

Karona,

I wouldn't leave these boards either...I am almost exclusively posting on Idiotville in general questions now....

My radar is working again, and it is tuned in better so I can ditch the losers quickly now...so much of what is discussed here in the dating board is the early stages...the reaching out and stepping out stage and I am way, way beyond that. At least I think I am? Yes I am...lol

here is the MB Photo Album

Lots of good people posted pics and Faith1 has been kind enough to keep track of it all.

Well Karona, good memory...I am from Ohio, northeast Ohio...a 15 minute trip on I-71 from downtown Cleveland...What part are you from?

Stop with the compliments...my ego just grew 5 sizes too big for my body <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Karona, Has it really been 4 months already? Yeah, I guess it's been about 3 for me... Unlike you, no dates at all, no one has expressed any interest and I'm not looking.

I'm taking full advantage of my still married status to completely withdraw from the dating scene. I'm getting used to being alone and kind of like just hanging out with myself. I do things with friends, but not as agressively as I was right after the break-up w/XBF. I don't even have kids to keep me company.

I remember one of my WH's parting shots was that I'd be an old woman living alone with my cats. Well, I do have two cats, as well as 4 dogs and 7 horses (all used to be "ours") and these days, it doesn't sound like such an insult anymore. I guess in a way it's good to feel so content being alone, but sometimes I wonder if I'll ever feel like dating again, if something's wrong with me...

RM~~
I think I'm just a bit more eastern. I grew up in Ashtabula. When I was young, Cleveland was a scary place. My sister still lives up there and visits, and says how much better it is now.

Thanks for sharing the album!? I think I have seen cinderella somewhere before. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Faith1 did a great job!
Its really neat to put a face with some of the names. There are so many people in there though that I have never heard of. Big place this board is!!

So this is the early stages eh? And I thought I had progressed so far. (only kidding) I started on here I think in 2002 under a different name. Went through the various boards, and now I'm here!

Thanks again for your thoughts, I always appreciate what you have to say. (BTW, thats not a compliment!)Ha!

LT~~

I haven't heard from you in so long. I do think of you, and wonder how things are progressing for you. Sounds like things have not gone through yet. I'm sorry.

Well, I guess there could be worse things than living with your animals, you could be living with the animal you married. So, in that respect, I think your doing great!
Seriously though, I think he was just trying to beat you down. Don't let him.

So, yes, it has been 4 months since I last spent time with xbf, the official break up was a few weeks later. I believe I'm doing better. I went through all but the last week and a 1/2 marking off everyday on my calendar, meaning, made it through another day. That's how crushed I felt. I did see him, gosh, it's been about 3 or 4 weeks ago now. He looked great, still handsome, and kind. I still feel like I royally screwed up something that had potential, but I chalk it up to, that's where I was at that time in my life and I couldn't change it.

I have joined two dating sites, but am now just waiting for them to expire. (only had the one date, and he was really my only communication also)I have decided, its not me. The reason I did it was because I don't go out hardly ever, and where I live is ridiculous for meeting men anyway.
It's really just not me to go after guys, and that's what I felt like I was doing. So, I guess I will remain a mom to my girls, until I'm in the right place at the right time kind of thing.
Even though I felt no interest in this particular guy, but found him to be very kind/genuine and he was attractive, it wasn't fun telling him I didn't want to continue going out. I took no pleasure in that. He in fact wrote me an email a few days later asking how to get to my heart. It made me cry. So, my heart is either not ready, or I'm just that hypersensitive.

Well LT, I don't think anything is wrong with you. I think maybe your doing what you feel is needed. Just trying to get to a better spot.

I'm glad you checked in!
Karona

Karona where do you live now? I'm in Pennsylvania...about an hour east of Erie.

Hi Alluring,

I live in, hang on......West Virginia!! Have lived here for 8.5 years now. It was a hard ajustment moving here from Florida, but it has a way of growing on you.

Oh Erie, the guy I dated was from there, so I have a soft spot for that place.

You must be very close to NY then.

So, have you lived there forever? How about those winters up there?? Not fun eh?

Winters here are nothing compared to what it was like up there.

K!

I was born in Corry and raised in Warren..and I'm about 15 minutes from Jamestown NY...the winters aren't as bad as they used to be when I was a kid...LOL many many moons ago...

Hey Alluring,

I don't know if its close to you, but there is an excellent winery up near there somewhere, Johnson Estates. Have you heard of it?

Small world isn't it?!

K.

I am in RebornMan's camp on this matter (not to mention his general neighborhood - does that mean you like me, too, Karona? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I feel that I've already been through the worst that a loved one can do to me, and since I know that with God's help I survived it once, I know I could do it again if necessary. There's no longer even a fear of the unknown.

Oh, and on the matter of comparing "physical pain to heart ache," I found that I came out of my divorce experience with a greater tolerance for physical pain. It's all about perspective.

Gnome,
I have read your replies and thought you seem like a good guy, now I know where your from, and Yep, I like ya!!

As far as physical pain to heart ache, I'll take the physical. This heart stuff is tuff!!

I read your response to FR. Wow, I remember reading your posts concerning this lady some time ago. She must be a real keeper!

K!

Alright GDP....I guess it is a Ohio convention in here...whats your general location brutha?

And how are those Browns??

K!

ROTFLMAO!!

Thanks K, that was funny. I'm actually feeling a little closer to finalizing the divorce (hopefully not wishful thinking). I met with my lawyer and accountant last week to draw up a new final offer. We added 10% to the property values to head off another attempt by WH to get new appraisals (which, if history repeated itself, would take at least another 6 months for him to actually do). I would give him 1/2 what I owe him up front and then pay him the rest at 6% interest amortized over 10 years with a balloon payment in 5 years. This will provide him an income since he doesn't seem interested in working. My accountant thinks it's a very fair offer and I get to keep all the remaining property as well as the business.

Since we were writing about our not-so-recent-break-ups, the only new development in my life is my MIL died of Alzheimer's. Her friends, her niece (the one for whom WH and I were legal guardians), and I had a memorial service for her. DN and her 3-year old son were the only blood relatives who attended. It just re-emphasized what a weird family WH's really is. I was very close to MIL and she seems to have been the linchpin of the family as everyone fell apart after she developed Alzheimer's. Everyone except DN, who actually seems to be doing better. She wasn't close to her grandmother but she is the most like her in many ways, including appearance.

There's my update to you. Have you continued with the golf lessons? I gave up the jitterbug class - too awkward without a partner. I feel like you about pursuing men and I, too, live in an area where it's hard to meet men (is it ever easy at 54?). BTW, since you're all talking about where you live, I was born in NYC, grew up in CT, and have lived almost 2/3 of my life in CA.

I still read here, but haven't had much to contribute since I'm basically sitting in limbo, not divorced and not dating. There are so many good people here who've been through so much and I pray that, in God's time, we'll all find the love and happiness we so deserve.

I have never heard of it...but then again there are alot of winerys up that way. here is their website

http://www.johnsonwinery.com/

Alluring, Yep, that's it!
That whole area up that way, from Geneva Ohio, past you I guess is all about it.

When I visit my sister who lives near Geneva, OH, we visit a winery usually. Just a neat atmosphere.
Thanks for sending that through!

LT~~~

So you liked that?! I guess I should have said, that your married to, as I'm sure he wasn't an animal when you married him. But, you got the point!! I'm glad you laughed!

The offer sounds pretty "sound" to me. OH how I hope he sees this as something he can't refuse. I just can never get with a man that doesn't want to work. And you, for all you have been through pulling this company through and up the way you have, all the while dealing with the health and personal issues. Your a strong woman LT!
Keep me posted please.

I'm sorry to hear about your MIL. That illness is so sad. So, your saying, her own son didn't come? Disgusting!

So your not dancing anymore?! I understand. I guess you're not able to try out your moves so, it seems pointless. But, maybe one day you will have a partner to take the lessons with! And that will be more fun for you.
And I as well have not taken anymore lessons.
I don't even own clubs. That game is so involved and such a mind game to me. I enjoyed it, but it's serious. I would like to give it a try again, and hopefully will someday.

You know, when we talked before, for some reason, I had you pegged for TN or GA, but never CA! I don't know why I had that thought, funny! You went far from home didn't you?

I kind of went through a short period here where nothing seemed to stand out to me, but lately there has been more threads that have caught my attention.
The people here have sometimes unknowingly brought me through some dark hours, and it's been my social life many times. {pretty pathetic, but none the less, true}

Take care, and please keep me posted,
K!

She would be, if I had her to keep.

Honestly, she's by no means perfect in the universal sense...if there could be a universal sense. She has traits which would drive some men crazy. I just happen to be the other sort of man who finds those traits delightful. (And yes, I've taken into account the difference between actually living with someone and just being friends.)

C'mon, RebornMan...a gnome has to have some secrets! It's dangerous for a mythological creature to reveal its lair.

Browns? Sorry, I don't follow basketball.

That good eh??

huh, a kept woman???? [just kidding there]

So, delightful traits that would drive other men crazy, there you have it, only a gnome knows!

K!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is scary to put your heart out there, but what is the alternative? To live without a partner? That is even scarier to me. We have to take a chance and learn to trust our judgement. Learn to trust yourself, your instincts and putting your hear out won't be quite so scary.

JE~

I'm thinking, if I could just remove my heart from the whole scenario, until I see fit to put it in there, I would be all set!

K!

Now K - could you honestly do that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

FR

It was a thought Fish! A darn good one too!

Don't you do that when you date with "no expectations"?

This sorts fits this conversation... what do you think of this, Karona?

I just went on a 2nd date yesterday with a guy that wants to take things very slowly. Start "as friends". I'm unsure... because I feel no "sparks"... but I think 1 reason is because he's holding back and taking things so slowly emotionally. He's 38 and never been married, and we've had a couple of conversations trying to identify "why" he's never been married... and have danced around the idea that he's always "friends" and afraid to take the leap to something more. Is he ready now? Who knows? But dating with no expectations, or to start "as friends", is a way to protect your heart until you're ready. When you're ready, you'll know.

" but what is the alternative? To live without a partner? That is even scarier to me."

Why JE? Why does this scare you so much? Do you not understand that you must overcome this fear before you will make someone a suitible partner?

Faith~~

I think it's great! I think that's what I need exactly.
To start as friends, slow, and then at some point, "the wow" come into play.

I have talked about that exact thing with Fishy! [I think he initiated it, but I agreed] To build a solid foundation first, and then for the "other" to follow.
It seems like the relationship would/could be so much stronger for it to build from friendship up!

As far as "the guy" is concerned. Any particulars as to why he has never married yet? I don't think its a awful thing really. Was he concentrating on schooling, a career? If so, then that's commendable. Now, there also is something to be said about the guys that make better friends to women than to ever marry one, and that is where you need to look deeper. [j/k]

And how about you and these dates? You go girl!!

BG~~
I left my heart at home on the two dates with the guy I'm speaking of. However, I tend to feel a lot for others too, and it was then that my heart hurt in this case. When he was trying to win me over, and I didn't have the same type of feelings, it really bothered me.

K!

I to am seeing someone who's never been married, no kids...blah blah blah...he's 44 years old..he has a solid career doing something he loves, he recently (it ended a year ago) lived with someone for 4 years and now he lives with his cat. He's everything I'm not used to...very brainy, computer guru, professional classical musician, tall, skinny, and like i said..never married, no kids...We spent the weekend together and had great quality time but I'm still sensing some red flags with him..ie he's looking online at dating sites..but so am I so I can't get upset for that, i am usually the one to suggest we do something, if i don't connect up with him online for a few days because of our schedules or if purposely don't leave him an offline message on yahoo for a few days to test him (yes i know that's bad on my part) he'll leave me a little something..so I know he's thinking about me but still he's yet to LATELY suggest getting together without me saying something first, and the one that really boggles me is we laugh, have great conversation, terrific sex but when i leave his place or he leaves my place...there is no kiss good-bye or hug or anything...what am I to make of that? and if I were to bring it up to him...what do I say without sounding pushy? We have been dating for 6 weeks. He's been here to my place 3 times and me to his 2 times and this last time he told me where the key to his house was so I could let myself in while he was still working.

Is he just not that into me or am I over analyzing as usual????

*sigh*

Men are like water. We tend to take the path of least resistance. If we don't have to work very hard to get what we want out of a relationship (most often SF), then we're not going to do the extra stuff.

If you want more than what you are getting, then it is up to you to ensure he knows what ENs you want fulfilled. If you tell him and he still doesn't do it, then you have to choose if you want to stick it out and be shortchanged or move on.

How do I do that without coming off as being pushy though?

Thus... a valid issue re: the honesty thread I started today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> what to say/not to say.

Make it an open honest communication of what it is that you want. If you're not satisfied, tell him you're not satisfied. If you would like for him to do something, say, "this is what I like". Explain to him that it has to be give and take for the relationship to work. If he's smart, he'll understand that.

M tells me we're supposed to have a 5 to 1 relationship. I'm supposed to do 5 things for her to her 1 thing for me. Most of the time I know she's kidding, but sometimes I wonder. I've explained to her that in order for this to work it has to be a 1 to 1 relationship. She knows that, but she likes to give me a hard time anyway.

"It seems like the relationship would/could be so much stronger for it to build from friendship up!"

You can take this to the bank, Karona.

AGG, I do not think you are over-analyzing at all! I am seeing your red flags, too. I suspect "booty call" mentality here, especially if he's letting you make all the "let's get together" moves. Ditto on the showing you where the spare key is so you can let yourself in while he is still working. Pleeese! What are you a concubine that you don't deserve enough respect for him to actually be home when you arrive for a romp? And. you are OK to do the nasty with, but not to give an affectionate goodbye kiss when you part?

I have to be honest with you. Men are different from women. If a man gets to be 44 years old and has never been married, there is little chance that he ever will. Some men have no interest whatsoever in marriage. If all you want from this relationship is good sex and companionship, you'll be OK. But if you want/need more, you need to shake the bushes again to see what else falls out.

Don't be pushy. Simply let him be the one to call you to make the next date. It may take him awhile, and he will probably want to know why he hasn't heard from you. Tell him point blank that you aren't in this thing alone and you need more active participation on his part. Let that be his one and only warning that you require a two-way, engaged relationship. Read the last line of your own sig line again. Also, try foregoing sex the next time the two of you are alone at either place. See what kind of reaction that gets.

Which is why I decided I needed to get more advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alluring,

I have a big problem with this.

If I were having SF with a guy, there darn sure would be a hug and a kiss, [and preferably, also one on my forehead] when I walked out the door.
I don't think that's asking for too much.

I don't like what I'm reading. I don't know this man, or many men is this regard, but I feel he is dead wrong!

I think you should exactly what has been said. I'm not into playing games, but, this is a time to hold your own. When he asks whats up? Then maybe it's time to say, something has been bothering me.........tell him this doesn't make you feel too good.

Whew, this has me a bit heated.

K!

Ditto on the showing you where the spare key is so you can let yourself in while he is still working. Pleeese! What are you a concubine that you don't deserve enough respect for him to actually be home when you arrive for a romp?

We live an hour apart...he wasn't going to get home until 11:30 pm and I don't like driving in the dark.

And. you are OK to do the nasty with, but not to give an affectionate goodbye kiss when you part?

I know...but am I just as much to blame for not taking the initiative and planting one on him myself when I left??

If a man gets to be 44 years old and has never been married, there is little chance that he ever will. Some men have no interest whatsoever in marriage.

That's so depressing!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

you need to shake the bushes again to see what else falls out.

This made me giggle...I'll be a shakin fool...lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Simply let him be the one to call you to make the next date.

He is coming down Friday night but it was still up in the air whether he was staying the night

It may take him awhile, and he will probably want to know why he hasn't heard from you. Tell him point blank that you aren't in this thing alone and you need more active participation on his part. Let that be his one and only warning that you require a two-way, engaged relationship.

I will definately do this next time IF we don't have some sort of talk when he is here Friday night.

Read the last line of your own sig line again.

Okay that was a major wake up call!! Thank you!!!!

Also, try foregoing sex the next time the two of you are alone at either place. See what kind of reaction that gets.

I don't know if I can do this one.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Anxious to get responses..Thanks!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Karona...Out of 5 times this is the 2nd time this has happened...and like I said to Check am I just as much to blame because I didn't make the advance either???

Big...thanks...I'm not one for saying what my EN's are...they never mattered to the ex...it's a hard habit to break into if you know what I mean

I'm still fired up a tad.

Okay, lets assume he is not Mr.Search out the soft side, but come on, not even a hug on two occasions??

I understand what you are saying, your x didn't appreciate that you had needs, and you gave up expressing. But, you are starting a new life and your needs are worth having fulfilled.

If this guy is great in all the other areas, wonderful, but lets get him to work a bit on your EN's.

I'm not reading here that you were expecting flowers,[might have been a nice touch though] gifts....
a hug or a kiss is pretty simple.

K!

Yes it is... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Alluring,

I feel like I need to say I'm sorry here.

I shouldn't have gotten so excited about this.

Intimacy is special to me though, and I think there should be tenderness that goes along with it, for the woman, as well as the man.

Anyway, I'm sorry, and know that I meant it in a good way towards you.

K!

I'm butting in here:

K: Please don't apologize for your passion! It is an endearing quality that is long lost in this politically-correct world. Embrace it for it fits you well! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

FR

Ah Thanks Fish, but, I do feel the need to say I'm sorry.
It wasn't my place to say so much.

As I said, intimacy is important to me and I have my own feelings regarding it. I need to remember that, that they are my own.

I think I was fired up from something else that happened earlier, and my feelings spilled over onto this.

Thanks again Fish, and again, I'm sorry to you if I offended you in anyway Alluring.

K!

OMG Karona...there was no way I was offended at all...I completely understand what you were/are saying and I agree with you! Yes he should have but I also feel I could have too...ya know...the ole 50/50 thing..LOL

Please don't feel the need to apologize to me...I am totally okay with your words, thoughts and feelings hon!!:)

Hopefully I can use what's been shared here and can get the courage up to approach him with my EN's. It's territory I haven't tread on in a long long time. Is 6 weeks too early to ask for mine AND his EN's to be met??

This dating world sucks!! LOL

Alluring

I think we could still be grieiving? Maybe that is more sense.

You bounce through the stages of grief as we all know on this board especially.

And it does take years to properly do so..

And when it is combined with say...PMS (like right now for me as an example), it is heck!

It is scary.

Sometimes I think the special part of me that had the ability to love, to commit, to cherish, has been sucked out of me...and all that is there is love for my son, friends, and family.

I feel almost doa in the romantic love department hon.

Have almost completely realized that I may be still bouncing along at the end of the grieving process...although another former MB'er and buddy of mine, still does and he got d'd even before I did. He says it is something we unfortunately bear the burden of living with...

But it is better to live with this than unimaginable guilt or unrealized guilt as a ws has to deal with...someday...if not not...but definitely they will someday.

praying for you girl and for us here to let the sun shine in once more!

I'm thankful for that Alluring, and Thank You!

It is important for things to be 50/50, but, as the man here, I do feel he should have reached out. Enough said.

As far as asking for your needs to be bet? Assuming that this relationship has potential being that intimacy is being shared, I would think that its time for needs to be discussed.

If there were no intimacy, I would probably be still feeling it out.

Yeah, I agree about the dating. While I'm very inexperienced in it, its not at all where I wanted to be at this point of my life.
I do try to stay positive though.
My x really loved other women, that really bothered me.
So, I do feel that I was being spared, and that there is a bigger plan for me. I just have to be patient.

Good luck with this man, stay close and keep us posted, and again, Thank you!
K!

Hey Peach!

Hmmm, interesting, not sure. [at this point I mean]
I know that while I was with bf, I would bet the farm on that I had some of those issues.
In the past couple months, I have been feeling differently about it. Starting to believe there are reasons, and better things lying ahead.

No doubt though, it is a long process, and there are no short cuts.

Oh, and I do know what you mean by having certain emotions sucked out of you.
I have an incredible amount of love for my girls, it practially oozes out of me. I found when it came to the xbf, there were times when I could feel it, and times I couldn't grab it if it were right in front of me. I knew that I had issues to work on, and my being with him was unfair, thus my yo-yoing.


"But it is better to live with this than unimaginable guilt or unrealized guilt as a ws has to deal with...someday...if not not...but definitely they will someday."

Isn't that the truth. While I know I could have always done better, I do not have the guilt your talking about here.
I never ever thought I would be able to say this, but I have in the past 4-6 months. I do feel bad for my x. He has lost so much in life, but even more than that, he seems to be losing himself.

praying for you girl and for us here to let the sun shine in once more! "

Thanks Peach! And the same back to you, and all here!

K!

Okay update on this guy...we had a MAJOR talk the other night online and we both shared lots of EN's including the kiss/hug goodbye and he apologized and said.."let's work on that"...so this morning when he left here...he kissed me good-bye with no hesitation at all. Was really nice. I guess the moral to this is...it's okay to share EN's after all. Who knew....okay well you guys did..i didn't...lol

thanks bunches!!

Alluring

Alluring,

That is good news! And I'm glad that he was open and receptive to your needs.

K!

VERY!!! really surprised myself!! I just waited for the right timing.

Thanks!!!

See, we men are trainable! LOL

LOL!!! I want that in writing!!!!

Yes, it is much easier than when we're expected to read their minds... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And that's exactly what I expected him to do...awful aren't I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Learned a BIG lesson with that one!!!

LOL, AGG. The other day, I was finishing up a meeting with my boss, when he phone rang. Transcript:

Him: Oh, hello, sweetheart. No, just finishing up a meeting with "Check." Yeah, I have time for lunch; that would be nice. It'll need to be someplace close to the office, since I have a 1:30. What are you interested in for lunch.

.....

Well, there's pretty much anything you may want in the area; Chinese, Italian, Thai, Japanese, Mexican, Jewish deli, you name it.

.....

No, there aren't any of those in this part of town.

.....

Dear, whatever you want is fine with me. I can eat anything. Why don't you ...

.....

As I said, I can eat anything. Any of those are fine; just choose one.

.....

Okay, then I'll choose one. How about The Oak Room; you love their salads. Just come by the office and we'll leave from here.

.....

That's why I asked you to choose the restaurant! I told you I don't care, sweetheart, but you seem to have an idea about what you want. I can't read your mind, you know. So just tell me. There's no need for you to be mad.

.....

Bancock Garden it is. That's only just down the street.

.....

Yes, I know you said the other day that it had been awhile since we had Thai, but I didn't know if you wanted it today or not, so I asked.

Yes, dear.

.....

Yes, dear.

.....

(sigh)

.....

OK. See you in a few minutes.

Him to me: are all women crazy?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Imagine the bonus points he would have gotten if he had guessed the right restaurant to begin with!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Umm, nah, only the good ones!

Sometimes, there's just too many choices. It all sounds good, and then we have to pick!! Or, we have a taste for something, and we can't figure out what it is.

But, I do want to add, Great job on his part for meeting her for lunch. I think thats important in a relationship. Especially given the fact he had a mtg. and he still wanted to have lunch with her.

K!

Had he guessed The Bancock Garden to begin with she would have wanted The Oak Room. We women are horrible!!! LOL

And as a side note...I live in a very small town...I think people here would s**t if we had so many choices of where to have lunch...Thai?? Japanese?? Jewish deli?? we don't have those things here...LOL OY! I need to get out of town more!!! LMAO!!!!