I'll try to keep this short.

I have been legally divorced for about 10 years, but "emotionally" divorced only since he found a new wife 4 1/2 years ago. Right after he got engaged he moved really fast...was looking at engagement rings with my daughter within a couple of weeks of meeting her and deciding she was "the one"). I kind of went off the deep end and was desperate and vulnerable and not prepared for the dating situation where men want sex right away and I was really shocked that ANYONE found me sexually attractive because my husband didn't. My ex had been my first boyfriend and I had been in a relationship of some kind with him for 26 years.

So, I met a guy who I knew immediately was commitmentphobic, but it didn't matter because I was secretly hoping my ex's new marriage would fall apart so I could get my family back together. This new man I met was such a comfort and a good friend but 3 months after I met him, I found myself pregnant. He dumped me halfway through my pregnancy after I asked him for a commitment. As soon as the baby was born, we reconnected, but we never got the old relationship back. This was strictly business. Co-parenting only.

Well, the child is now 3 years old. He has not dated anyone and has made it clear that he doesn't want me to date anyone else, either. He has NO desire to have an emotionally intimate and affectionate relationship with me. He knows it isn't fair to say, "I don't want a relationship with you, but since you are the mother of my child and I don't want another man in her life, you can't have a relatinship with anyone else." Yet, every time I try to date, he makes a big fuss and mentions wanting to get full custody of our child. We currently have almost a 50/50 arrangement, with me being the primary residential parent.

This last time I tried to date, he insisted that he didn't have a problem with it (but he has always said that until I actually do it, then the protests start) and I got him to promise me that if he started freaking out about our daughter eventually being with another man in her life, he would get counseling. Well, he has kept his promise, but I don't know what to do.

I have struggled with this issue ever since I found out I was pregnant. I don't want my child to have a stepfather, yet I crave an intimate relationship with someone of the opposite sex. I want to love and be loved and to have someone to share his life with me.

I have tried to deny my needs, but it only works for a while. I really loved this man a lot at one point. He really cared for me and enjoyed my company until he felt trapped in the relationship because of the child.

Part of me thinks I should just be alone because it is such a struggle to try to date. I am not excited about the men I have met, although it is nice to spend some time with a man who is with me because he WANTS to be, not because he HAS to be.

My therapist has encouraged me to live my own life, to date, to not bow to this man's wishes when I want something different. But he gets so upset and controlling...is it worth the stress?

Every time he makes a fuss over me dating, I tell him that HE should be in a relationship with me. A mutually satisfying relationship. He has not even tried to deal with his commitmentphobia. He still tries to simply say we are not compatible and he can't make himself have feelings for me. He avoids doing things that would build intimacy. He often has a hard time even looking me in the eye, unless I am angry and there is emotional distance. He has not been alone with me ever since he dumped me. He avoids physical contact. We usually get along okay and spend lots of time together as a family, but there is no intimacy.

I told him the other day (when he suddenly came up with about 4 different issues to complain about) that we would all be so much better off if he'd deal with his phobia and could be together. I don't need that much from him. He wouldn't have to live with me, and what I really wanted from him, I could get if he was in a coma. I could sit with him and hold his hand and talk to him for as long as I wanted and I could imagine he was listening and what he would like to say to me. I could kiss him and run my fingers through his hair. I have told him repeatedly that I didn't even have to have sex, I just needed a very little bit of quality time and physical touch. Fifteen hours a week? I told him I would settle for 20 minutes alone with him a week, or even a 20 minute phone call that was open and honest and mutally desired. When I think back to when things were good, between the 2 nights a week I could see him and the long phone calls in between, I am pretty sure we had more than that, and I found my relationship so much more pleasant and intimate than the relationship I had with my husband for most of those years.

I am upset that therapists don't seem to value relationships. They seem to say, if you don't like this one, go try another one. My situation is more complicated than many. I really didn't like the advice my therapist gave me...to stop waiting in limbo just in case he someday decided he wanted a relationship with me. He said that this man would NEVER want me if I kept doing what I had been doing for the past 3 years...trying to be pleasant and patient and deny my own needs. He told me that the only chance of something happening, and it was far from any guarantee, was for me to go take care of meeting my own relationship needs.

I do know that there is no man I would rather be with because he has a lot of things RIGHT about him. Mostly, he is the father of my child and life would just be easier without bringing in stepfamilies. I really don't have time or energy to start a new relationship, anyway, even if I do meet someone with marriage potential.

He invited me to dinner and I turned him down last night. He said we needed to talk and he was practically begging me to meet him. I said I wasn't comfortable having dinner, that I would be glad to meet him with a therapist. I don't want to get "sucked in" to believing he is starting to get close to me. The only reason he has suddenly started pursuing me (and I think the "picking fights" is actually a subconcious way he is pursuing me for my time and attention) is because I am distancing from him. I told him that if I started hanging out with him as a family again (we just stopped last month)I know that as soon as I started getting comfortable, he would start distancing again. I am sick of it.

He has enjoyed far too much involvement in and control over my life. When I tell him that my daughter is free to have a life with me and do things with me that we enjoy without his interference, and he can have the same thing with his time with her, he still isn't satisfied.

All I have ever wanted was to be a wife and mother and have a stable and happy home life. I can't believe things have turned out like this for me.

Are you certain this guy is single?

Well, you're not going to like my advice, either.

Stop waiting for this man to come around and decide he loves you. If he wanted to make a commitment to you he would have done it long ago. Even if this guy gets over his "commitment-phobia" he doesn't want YOU. He hooked up with you because you're not his type and he will never want to commit to you. That's what men do when they are emotionally unavailable.

You deserve someone better than this who will love you freely and fully. Not this jerk. And someone better is out there.

You said that you don't have enough time and energy to find someone new. Well, the reason you don't have enough time and energy is because you are spending way too much time with Mr. Unavailable and you are using up all your emotional energy trying to figure why he doesn't love you.

I strongly recommend that you use what we refer to here as "Plan B". When you go into Plan B, you have little to no contact with the person who is causing you pain. You obviously can't have total no contact with the father of your child, but you can get close.

Here is some information about how to do a Plan B with children involved.
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Here's an excerpt that you might find helpful.



It sounds like you have attempted to do a mild Plan B. That's not really good enough because he keeps contacting you and bothering you. When you go to a full-blown Plan B, the father of your child may get really upset. If he does, it's not because he loves you. He will do it because he is too controlling. If he threatens you in any way, you will need to get a restraining order. I had to call the cops on my ex-husband one time and it freaked him out so much that he mostly stopped trying to tell me what to do. I didn't need a RO, but I would have done it if I needed to.

I also suggest that you try a DivorceCare group. While it's been a long time since you divorced your husband, you don't really sound like you're over it. Plus some of the material will help you deal with the broken relationship with the father of your child.

And, finally, there's a blog that you might find helpful. It's called Baggage Reclaim. There's a lot of advice about dating jerks and unavailable men and how to do better.

Kirby you should get a degree as a therapist. Seriously.

I don't have any wise words because obviously I'm whacked out myself, but I'll tell you what my goal is for my life and I think it would apply to you. I'm working on being happy in my new single life. Your single life isn't really new but it doesn't sound like you have found YOU yet. Everything I have read on here and on the net stresses the importance of finding YOURSELF before you try to complicate things with a partner. You can't know what you want in a partner if you don't know who you are. It sounds easier than it really is so you need to give yourself some time. The Divorce Care daily emails are a great help to me. I think the classes would be wonderful too but they are not offered close enough for me to warrant going to them. If I didn't have kids, it would be a different story.

Just because this man is your baby's daddy does not mean he is THE ONE for you. He has had plenty of opportunity to commit. He has you where he wants you. My ex was very controlling even though he did it in a way that I didn't recognize until I got out and looked back on my life. Because of the emotional abuse and the control issues, I still have problems making decisions for myself. I second guess everything I say/do. Is this what you want for your life?

When I was a teenager I had confidence in myself. If I liked a guy, I knew it was a matter of time before he would be interested (and I didn't chase them either). After I got married, I lost all of my confidence. I started comparing myself to others and came up lacking. It was the verbal abuse I got from my ex that did it but I didn't realize it until it was too late. I stayed in my marriage for the sake of my oldest child. He swore over the years he would change. I thought he had for 8 years. During that time we had our youngest child. I stayed in the marriage for the sake of BOTH of my children at this point. What good did that do me? I'm now divorced and single. Something I never wanted. My point is - do what is best for YOU. Take your children into consideration, but do what YOU need because this is the only life you will have. I promise you that your children will be OK. Especially when they see that their mother is happier.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

I agree with your therapist and also the advice given here. Why settle for way beneath what you deserve? Your daughter deserves to grow up in a happy home and see healthy working relationships. You need to stop trying to change this man and he needs to stop trying to control you. He has no right to have a say so in your dating life because you have no commitments with each other. Please stop deluding yourself into thinking it could ever work with him. If he loved you and wanted you, he would have demonstrated it a long time ago.

There's a lot worse things than being alone, and being in a relationship with the wrong person is worse. Thank your lucky stars he didn't marry you because you never would have been happy with the crumbs thrown your way.

I'm sorry you're in this situation, it hurts, but your life can be so much better!

A wise person listens and considers advice given them while a fool does not hear those who give advice meant for their good.

You are getting some good advice here. Also, the time and energy now has to be used to care for your child. I bought Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders CD set to understand the types of mindsets out there regarding marriage, including my own mindset. You may want to order those and get an idea.

When was the most recent time you and your baby's daddy had sex?

He hasn't wanted to have sex in 3 years. I don't know why, but when the baby was 3 months old, he wanted to have sex. I was so upset and confused and I asked him if he wanted to marry me (I told him after i got pregnant that he needed to marry me if he wanted to have sex) and he said no, he wanted to marry a Turkish woman.

Why would he want to have sex when he can't even bring himself to sit alone with me for a few minutes and have a cup of coffee? He has steadfastly refused to spend any time alone with me. He seems terrified of the idea of being alone with me.

What does that tell you?

He tried to get me to hug him last night, he said he would do anything I wanted him to do...he wants to be my friend. He almost looked like he was going to cry and he said "I can't raise her by myself." I told him we didn't have to be friends to effectively co-parent this child. I told him he should take a parenting class and he said maybe I am right.

yes, I am sure he is single.

Dr Harley recommends that you should marry the person who does the BEST job of meeting your needs. Since he fails completely in that regard, I would suggest you date until you find a suitable match.

Thank you for all the good advice. I think "parallel parenting" is a better choice for me than the "co-parenting"
Plan B is full of good info.
I will always be sad that this relationship, and my marriage, didn't work out. Children deserve better than this.

The best advice I can give you is to visit www.baggagereclaim.com and read everything on that site. It is a site dedicated to dealing with emotionally unavailable people. I think you will find it very enlightening and help you deal with your Mr. Unavailable as well as help you grow.

I clicked on that site and right away I see:
My 10 Commandments of Smart Dating

1. Have boundaries.
2. Don't allow yourself to be treated as an option.
3. Don't let yourself be used for sex.
4. Only date with your self-esteem in tow.
5. You have to share common values with your partners.
6. It's imperative to date beyond your comfort zone of 'type'.
7. Don't let your sexual organs make decisions for you.
8. Don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get involved with attached people - FLUSH!
9. Don't let yourself be managed via text/email etc.
10. Be a person of action & trust your gut!

Maintaining healthy boundaries has always been hard for me. I have always seen myself as the one more committed to make the relationship work, the more "mature", the "stonger", the one more able to make sacrifices. And oh, how have I sacrificed, both in my marriage and also in this relationship with my little girl's father.

I have an almost perfect "parallel parenting" relationship with my ex-husband and I a optimistic about eventually having one with my little one's father.

I am the one controlling MY life. It is high time I started taking care of MYSELF instead of everyone else. I guess I always felt that there was something noble in trying to make myself happy with the crumbs left over after the men in my life took all they wanted for themselves. I can't say that both my ex-husband and my little one's dad are all bad. They are not. And I have always admired and appreciated all their good qualities. The little one's dad, especially, does a lot of things right. We just aren't on the same page and he has always been in control and I have been made to respect his very rigid and almost unreasonable boundaries, but he has ignored mine. Mine aren't that many in number nor are they what any outside observer would call "unreasonable".

I am sad, though. I remember how things were with my little one's father before I got pregnant. I remember how close we were and how much we enjoyed each other's company. I was amazed at how close we were...and how much I smiled and laughed when I was with him. Even though I deeply loved my ex, I can't say that we had much "fun" together. That was what I envied so much about some other couples.

I need to quit thinking about the things that were right about that relationship. Nothing matters since he has consistently said he doesn't want a relationship with me.

I really don't know if I will be able to ever find a good mate. Who would want a 45 year old woman with two teenagers and a 3 year old?

It is so hard to not settle for a "better than nothing" relationship when you feel like your options are so limited.

The real problem is not the second sentence here but the first. As long as you have that kind of an attitude, you will indeed attract the wrong men and will not find a good partner.

Before you can even consider finding a good partner, you need to realize/decide that you are a good catch, worthy of a good partner. For every day that you are spending with Mr. Can't Commit, you are wasting one day's opportunities of finding Mr. Right.

AGG

Oh, I am definitely not wasting any time with Mr. Can't Commit. I do think I am a good catch, as a person, and I am certainly worthy of a "good partner", it is just that my situation in my life right now is pretty complicated. If I were a man, the kind of man I am looking for, I would pass me over as a wife, but if I wasn't looking to get married, I would definitely be interested. I am reasonably attractive, pleasant company, intelligent and I have what so many people call a "sparkling" personality. I am a positive person and I like to smile at strangers and brighten the day of others in everyway I can.

I have dedicated my life to learning how to be a good wife and mother. I have really studied so much about relationships, if I could only have a chance with a "normal" man, I think we would both enjoy the rest of our lives together. I didn't really pick my baby's dad. He was just someone who was friendly and let me cry on his shoulder (literally) while I was grieving from losing my family unit. Having the baby changed everything and got me stuck. I would find it much easier, I think, to find a man around my age who would be interested in me, if I didn't have this 3 year old, but she is such a joy to me and I am so glad I chose to not give her up for adoption, like her father wanted me to do. My ex-husband's other wife (who divorced him before their 3rd anniversary) had a teenaged son still at home, and that didn't stop him from wanting her. I couldn't believe it.

I am definitely "available" and I am up front with men about my availability. I have very little time to invest in a new relationship, but I had a good relationship with my baby's dad for 7 1/2 months with not much more "spare" time or energy than I have now.

I know I could easily find a "boyfriend" but a husband is more complicated.

And I have these mental blocks against thinking it is okay for me to live with a man who is not the father of my children while they are still at home. So, if I could find a man who wanted to marry me, but not live with me for 15 years, I'd be all set! LOL! I am working on some hangups, obviously.

I never dreamed I'd be looking for at mate at 45 years of age! When I married at age 20, I thought I was set for life!

Well, I think you are contradicting yourself all over the place here .

You clearly are living with the hope or dream (or illusion ) that Mr. Can't Commit will see the light if you only nag him long enough. And you are NOT ready to have any other man in your life:




Compare that to these, where you trying to tell us that you are available to the right man. Both of these cannot be true at the same time :



Your therapist is absolutely right, you need to lose the guy who has shown no interest whatsoever in you as a partner.

As for this:



Maybe that is your problem, thinking that no one would want you and/or your kids. That is a defeatist attitude. I met a wonderful lady about your age, who loved the idea of me having TWO teenage kids, and we have been happily married for over 2 years already . You are really setting yourself up for failure by thinking that no one will want you.

AGG

Well, I have to say that perhaps I have not explained things very well. I have been struggling for a long time to feel okay about having a relationship with a different man. I will always feel like it would have been best IF Mr. Can't Commit had tried a little harder. Even he has acknowledged how much easier it would have been for everyone if he had felt differently.

I had a kind of a breakthrough about a week and a half ago and although I did have a blowup with him a few days ago (it had to do with his threats and him being way out of line in trying controlling my behavior in other ways) I was thinking and speaking in PAST TENSE as in I wish he WOULD have tried to have a relationship. I think one reason he is taking drastic measures (threats, control, then when that didn't work, trying to reach out to me and be extra nice, saying we need to talk and he'll do whatever I want) is because he knows things have changed dramatically. I am DONE with HIM other than a parallel parenting arrangement. I am going to counseling with him tomorrow at his request, but it is not to work on our "relationship" to bring us closer together, it is to help us adjust to the new, more distanced relationship and the problems he is having, which I don't think he is being up front with his counselor about.

I really am not in a position to get into a "committed" relationship right now. I am pretty shell shocked and have some work I need to do. I do want to continue to date, though...there is something I like about every man I go out with, I just haven't met one yet who really strikes me as being a potential good fit.

I think Susan Page said something about rather than thinking you can't connect with someone new because you haven't gotten over the old relationship, you should think you haven't gotten over the old relationship because you haven't connected with someone new.

I don't think my situation is hopeless, I just think it is challenging. But maybe things will work out sooner than I think. I definitely need some time to heal from this bust-up, though.

I don't know Susan Page, but this sound back asswards to me... Sort of like "the best way to get over someone is to get under someone", yikes.

I have a few more thoughts I'll share tomorrow, I gotta go play with the family now .

AGG

It's backwards to me too...you don't get over someone by finding someone else, you get yourself in a healthy state and THEN you're more ready for that next person.

Don't worry about no one thinking you're wife material, just know you are a good person with positive qualities and enjoy the life you have. NONE of us knows what the future holds, if we'll remain single or find that someone we click with, but we should be open to the possibility.

I don't know what you have against stepparents but don't you feel you're prejudging people who might be the best thing that happened to your children? My late husband was a wonderful stepparent to my kids, and they were age 17 and 19 when we married. It's nearly 7 years since he passed and they still miss him and wish he could have been a grandpa to their future children.

You know, I dated for almost 8 years before remarrying, and I met many women during that time. I have to tell you that the fact that some women had kids did not scare me at all, I actually found that that gave us something extra in common. What DID scare me were women who were out there dating but really were not ready for dating yet - the ones who talked about their ex's all the time, or had clear unresolved issues with the ex's, etc. I ran away from those as fast as I could. Personally, I think you should not be dating when you are, as you yourself have said, not ready for a relationship. I think you should get your house in order first, because I doubt you are going to meet quality men in that state, although you probably will meet lots of guys who know how to prey on vulnerable women.

And I agree with kay that by saying you don't want a stepparent for your 3 y.o., you are very likely depriving her of a good male role model in her life.

AGG

I think stepparents are great to have in some situations.

I hate divorce and I hate it when people who have kids don't do what it takes to keep the marriage healthy and well functioning, and then when the one or ones who are not committed to doing what it takes to keep the family together trade one spouse in for another....I think as far as moral absolutes go, that qualifies as something that is always really bad.

I know of a family situation where the woman had 2 teenagers with an absolute DOG of an ex-husband (not to insult dogs...I have 2 myself) and married a great man and they had a child together and he adopted the teenagers (that is how involved and interested the biological father was). The children I am sure are much happier and well-adjusted than they would have been without a positive father figure in their lives.

In my situation, my ex husband divorced me and 5 or so years later married another woman. She divorced him before 3 years were up. My daughter was so upset, she would hardly speak to her ex-stepmother (the ex-stepmother is still "seeing" my ex-husband on occasion and my kids both don't want to be over there if she is going to be there.

I have absolutely no problem with a man or woman remarrying when the children's other parent is dead. I have a stepmother myself, but I would rather have seen my father loving my mother, like he promised to. I think I was in my late 20's when they divorced. My mother has never remarried. SHE was the one who divorced my father, but the situation was so bad, it was either divorce or suicide.

I have my own opinions and my own values I live by and I know everyone has the right to their own opinions and must make their own choices. My views are subject to change and I always listen to other peoples opinions---I know I am not always "right". And my actions don't always follow my ideals. For example, I believe sex belongs within marriage, but since I have a child that was conceived (naturally) and born and is being raised out of wedlock, I obviously haven't always followed my own rules.But I can tell you that I am not the only person who has gone years at a time without sex because the person they married and expected to be a sex partner (among many other things for live) reneged on their promise.

I do not know what will happen to me, but I hope that at some point I do overcome my own intimacy issues and trust issues that have come out of my unpleasant marriage and relationship experiences.

I think I am quite well enough to date, I just would't make a very good wife right now, and I know it.

I think Susan Page's advice was to people who were READY for a relationship. It was from her book, "If I'm So Wonderful, Why and I Still Single?" I LOVE Susan Page. She wrote a lot about people with commitmentphobia and other intimacy issues in that book, too.

Well, I was very vulnerable when I met Mr. Can't Commit. I talked and cried ALL THE TIME (it seemed to me) about my ex-husband. He never said anything, he just held me and when I composed myself, we'd go do something fun like go for a walk or watch a movie or cook, or other stuff. He actually made me smile a lot. I didn't really cry that much, but I know it wasn't good to do that at ALL or talk about your ex. I was very vulnerable and desperately lonely, and I think he was a pretty decent guy, all things considered. I could have done SOOO much worse.

My therapist thinks I should be dating. I married my first boyfriend and I only had about 6 months between getting "emotionally" divorced from my ex-husband and getting pregnant with my FWB, Mr. Can't Commit. Actually, he has committed in a lot of ways, and I am thankful for that. He is very devoted to our child and I am glad he is there for her.

Where we are:

You want a normal intimate relationship with a man.

CM (CommitmentPhobe Man) does not want to have a normal intimate relationship with you. That is okay, that is his choice.

CM (CommitmentPhobe Man) does not want you to have a normal intimate relationship with another man. That is not okay, that is not his choice.

But he seems to be making it his choice by threatening you with custody. So get custody legally taken care of so the threat is gone. When he is parenting the child, go on dates. When you are parenting the child, do not have men around until such time you have a solid relationship (like >6 months) and you won't have revolving men in the child's life.

You also seem to be letting the men you are involved with influence your opinion of yourself. You are worthy of happiness.

Yes, you deserve to try to find a normal relationship. Unfortunately it is not going to be with your Ex and CM.

Try to figure out why you picked out men that were not good for you...how can you avoid that?

We already have a custody order. We worked it out before the baby was born. He wanted to pay the minimum amount of child support. I am the primary residential parent. He is entitled to 180 days and I have 185. He has never used his time, in fact she was 22 months old before he ever had her alone.

I told him no judge would change this arrangement...it couldn't be any more fair, besides, not judge would change custody because he doesn't like me dating other men. Also, she also needs to continue her relationship with my other daughter and son, which would be interrupted if he had "full custody." I know it is an empty threat, but it REALLY gets under my skin when he threatens me like that.

We went to counseling together--HIS therapist. I was encouraged to promise that I would not introduce any man to our little girl until he had met him and knew his background, etc. I said "NO WAY." His therapist said he thought it was reasonable. I told him my ex didn't introduce me to his new wife and stepson, and the therapist said he should have. I has said earlier that my social life was none of his business and the only time I intended to make him aware of anything is if he needs to change the name on the child support check. It really burns me up that he keeps harping about me taking my 3 year old on dates to meet men. I can't imagine where he got the idea that I would ever do such a thing. He never met my older kids until the baby was born and I don't remember if I ever even invited him to meet my kids in the 7 1/2 months I knew him, including the 4 1/2 months I was pregnant before he dumped me. It was weird for me to have to tell my kids I was pregnant with their new sibling by a man they had never met.

I can't really figure out why I picked out men who were not good for me. I was 20 when I married my ex, he was my first boyfriend and I was passionately in love with him. The CM was actually VERY good for me, until I got pregnant and we got stuck with each other. My ex and the CM have totally different personalities, but share similar positive qualities. I don't have a history of picking any particular type of man because I have only had these 2 relationships, with a "boyfriend" of a few weeks in between and I he was the first man I went out with after my ex got his new wife.

I think you could work on boundaries with this man. As was stated, it's his decision not to commit, but it is NOT his decision if you date. I agree with the advice given you not to have men around your child until they've been in your life a while and you think it might be permanent, so it doesn't confuse them. A friend of mine was adopted, his parents then divorced, his mom married 7 times, his dad 5...he had more stepparents and stepsiblings than he could count, no one permanent. NOT good!

I am exploring the information on this site. Things that make a good marriage relationship make a good parenting relationship.

I really felt convicted reading up about the "Love Busters" and I apologized this morning to my little one's father for my part in killing the "good will". I have been guilty of "disrespectful judgements" as I shame him for not marrying me and in this relationship he seems to want the rights and privileges (and authority) of being a husband without me having the rights and privileges of eing a wife. I have also been guilty of "Angry Outbursts" which I tend to blame him for and not take responibilty for. I apologized for that, too. I think he is guilty of "selfish demands" and he has always withheld "Honesty and Openness" which makes things difficulty and unbalanced, since I am open and honest almost to a fault.

He is going to join me with MY therapist on Saturday to address his concerns and we will have a private meeting, just he and me, following. I have tried for 3 years to get him to have a "family meeting" with me on a regular basis just for building a rapport and a even if we didn't have any "business" to discuss, I thought we should be "friendly" and feel safe with each other . I think he has wanted to avoid any one-on-one time because his goal in life is to avoid intimacy and he, rightly so, sees time spent alone with each other in a relaxed environment is something that is conducive to building intimacy. That is one reason I would get upset if my husband had lunch with female co-workers. Even for the long periods of time (as much as 10-11 months) over the past 3 years that I had NO attraction or desire to marry this man, I still wanted a good "working" relationship and I wanted a spirit of mutual respect and co-operation. I have no desire to marry this man at this point and I don't think I ever will again, so maybe if I can make him understand that, he will be more comfortable. He did say a few days ago that he thought I was right for us to have "family meetings" and he was wrong and wants to start implementing that as a tool to keep our parenting relationship friendly and cooperative.

I have so much yet to work on.

I guess I don't understand having "family meetings" if you aren't a family. My XH (my kids' dad) and I were always cordial but we kept discussions to what was necessary (about the kids) and in a spirit of cooperation regarding passing on info required by our State law: school grades, doctor visits, etc. We didn't get have family get togethers that might make it difficult to move on. Now our children are grown and we have funerals and weddings, etc. to be at at the same time and he and I have no problem with that but his new wife seems to...I figure she knew he'd been married with kids before she took up with him so that's hers to deal with. The kids are first and foremost in my mind and it remains that way.

I am debating about "family meetings" myself...I do very much consider him and his family to be my family---not by choice, but through my daughter. I still consider my XH family to be family. My X still occasionally invites me to do stuff with him and the kids and I am glad to go if I have time.

I just hate this situation.

Why?

I was married to my XH for 25+ years and we have five children together. It has been less than a year since our divorce was final. Even so, I do not consider XH or any of his family to be MY family. I consider a couple of his cousins to be friends of mine and they are my children's family, but they are not MY family.

I think one reason you are having such a hard time with this is because you feel an unwarranted attachment to these people. Sometimes you have to let go of the old to have room for new connections.

Agreed.

I was married to my kids' dad for 23 years and extremely close to his family, I still am although I consider them to be HIS and my KIDS' family, not mine and I don't intrude on their get togethers. I visited his dad in assisted living every week until he passed away, and he appreciated it...as the old man said, we divorced, he didn't. I have been very careful to not be around when my XH or his wife are present. I think the remark about letting go of the old to make room for the new is apropos, although I don't have "new" and don't intend to.

I agree. I was married for 26 years. I do not consider my former inlaws 'family'. I have my niece (in law) on FB. Other than that, I have no contact with them.

How do you know when you are really ready to date?

I am fine to date casually. Just not ready for anything serious.

I am so angry and a little bitter about not having any relationships to work out well.

Well, I can only tell you my opinion, based on my experience.

I have never been a casual dater. I find dating an intimidating experience (see my thread on this forum if you want to read more about my experiences). Like you, I sometimes feel "wounded" or "damaged" by my experiences, and often think I haven't the proper skills or insight to choose suitable dating partners.

Many here will say that dating is like interviewing for marriage. All I know is that dating is a must if one is going to get to know someone better.

So, when are you ready? I don't think there's a formula that can tell you. The time is right when it's the right time, that's all I can imagine.

It's kind of like alcoholics who have recovered. Many I've heard say they don't remember when, but it just seems that after a while of not drinking, they just forgot to think about it.

As for me, I'm going back to waiting for Ms. Right to parachute out of the sky and land on my doorstep.

[quote=Fred_in_VA]?

If it was only so easy...like the stork brings you a special delivery??? (Scene from "Dumbo"). And then there is the problem of dealing with my sexual needs in the meantime.. (sigh)

Here's a Quiz: Are You Ready to Start Dating Again?

Outside of marriage sex is not a need. It is a desire. You already have one messed up situation due to having sex while not married.

I do not know why you would want to date before you are ready to marry...especially since you indicate you WANT to be married. However, if you are going to date I highly suggest you define what that means to you. To many people 'date' automatically includes sex, or at least the possibility of sex if you 'feel' like it. Stop operating on 'feelings'. Begin to be intellectual about this. You want to be married someday? Ok,...step by step...

Decide if you are ready to even BE dating.

Make yourself a list of what you want in a mate. (great article on this site about compatibility...I highly recommend it) Do not share your list with anyone. But continue to be 'aware' of what is on it at all times.

Do not even consider a date with any man that fails your personal compatibility test. Some of these won't be evident immediately. However, once a trait or situation manifests itself that rules him out....stop dating him. This does not mean he will be a 'bad' man, or unsuitable for someone else...but if he is not compatibile for YOU long term, stop dating him.

I really disagree with you on the sex JUST being a "desire". If it is an emotional need in a married person, why do you think it would not be a need for a single person? In fact, before sex was so freely available OUTSIDE of marriage, the sexual needs were a pretty strong impetus for people to get married and stay married.

Sure, it isn't an "urgent" need. I have a friend who is a 42 year old virgin. So, lack of sex won't kill you, but I think the health benefits are very evident.

I do acknowledge that sex OUTSIDE of marriage is WRONG and, to me is not "worth it". I did not go looking for sex outside of marriage, I just wasn't prepared for the environment I found myself in and I was so desperate for intimacy, I was willing to give sex to get some quality time and affection. I probably should not have been dating... I had married my first boyfriend and hadn't dated anyone else. I did not know that men would try to have sex early on and the first time I met a guy for a "first date" and I realized he wanted to have sex, I literally ran away in tears. After I thought about it a while, I realized how nice it was to have a man to find me sexually appealing, since my husband had for years told how unappealing I was to him.

But I know that sex outside of marriage causes all kinds of problems, and most importantly God said don't do it. I don't have any intentions of doing it again, but I know I have to take "extreme precaution" to avoid it.

Sex still is, to me, a need and I wish I knew how to not feel like I'm a walking bundle of sexual frustration. I don't read sexy romance novels or watch sexy movies. I stay extremely busy. I don't even THINK about sex much. My body just is so often primed and ready.

I have been about 4 years without being sexually active (BY CHOICE-I know I could easily find a man who just wanted to go to bed with me), something I never dreamed I would do after I got married at the age of 20. But it causes me a lot of stress. Having sex outside of marriage would cause MORE stress, but who wants to get married, just for sex???

Life gets complicated when people divorce. How to deal with sexual NEEDS suddenly becomes an issue. I have talked to other people who are single because their spouses chose to leave the marriage. Like I said,a person's sexual need doesn't switch off just because they aren't married anymore. Of course, some people don't have a very high sex drive, other people are depressed or on antidepressant medication that helps keep their libido from being an issue.

I don't see MY "dating" as having sex, I see it as enjoying the company of someone else and getting to know him better.

I want to date because my therapist said it is good for me. I don't know if I believe him. The only man I am enjoying dating is a guy recently divorced who isn't looking to get serious, just needing someone to keep him from feeling crushed by loneliness. I need the same, too. My time with him is truly "stress free" and I think it is for him, too. I went out for several weeks with different men and really felt like it was almost too exhausting to be worth the trouble. And I hate telling men that they aren't right for me. I don't mind getting rejected as much as I hate rejecting other men.

I think I should be dating for practice. I want to know what is "out there". I want to be open and available to meet the one who is right for me.

I really do hate the dating process, but I do enjoy spending time with a man who enjoys spending time with me.

And this is your big clue that it is not a 'need'. God would not tell us to refrain from something that we 'need'. If you keep thinking of it as a 'need', a 'right' all humans have, then you will continue to feel frustrated and confused. Many many people have remained celibate their entire lifes---not all remained single by CHOICE, but determined to remain celibate until married.



Not all celibate people are depressed or on anti depressant meds. Again, replace 'need' with 'desire' or 'want' and you can see that it is something you can do without....think of yourself like a diabetic who wants sugar.

And the answer to this question is because they are single.

None of the 'emotional needs' identified by Dr. Harley are actual 'needs' of any human...they are required for a satisfying marriage.

I think if you are talking about a true NEED, food, heat, medical care (if you need it) fall into that category. Sex is a DESIRE, albeit a very strong one esp. at certain ages/phases of life and definitely stronger in some than in others. I think when Dr. Harley defines sex as an emotional need, it is within the confines of a loving relationship of a married couple...sex is not just the primal instinctual satisfaction of a bodily need, it's the expression of love between two people.

There are some people that would marry for sex, just as there are some people who marry for a good cook, or a stable income, or a host of other reasons. I doubt most of us want someone to marry us just for those reasons and I hope most of us would consider a whole lot more than those reasons when choosing someone to marry.

The danger in two people dating who are not ready and who just "don't want to be alone" is that they end up together but aren't really right for each other. If you're ready for dating, you're more likely to be objective and looking at the right criteria.

Someone posted a link about how to know if you're ready for dating, that'd be good for starters. When I divorced my XH, I made a list of qualities I'd want in someone...some are "dealbreakers" and some are "preferential"...I highly recommend someone making this list BEFORE they date so they can refer back to it and be reminded about what is important to them, and they can surmise if someone fits that list or not. We make a list about what we want in a car and do our research before making a purchase, why would we do any less about a decision so much more important, our potential mate?

Ooooooh, SW, this is really good.

I've figured out how to resist temptation with food. I had to go gluten free and I've lost 35 lbs in the past year. I know I can resist other temptations, too.

That is awesome! I need to learn to control my cravings and lose about 15 pounds. Sigh.

Well, I still disagree. If we didn't NEED another human being to meet any NEED, God never would have made Eve to be Adam's companion.

I NEED sex and I NEED conversation. I personally don't know of any healthy human being who can go years at a time without conversation and REMAIN healthy mentally, emotionally, or physically.

I have never been a diabetic and don't know much about it, but as far as I know, everybody NEEDS sugar...it is the fuel for the brain. But we know that any food, taken outside of the way it was meant, can be harmful. Sleep is a NEED, but people can survive without "proper" sleep, but it has health consequences, whether it is too much or not enough.

Obviously, some of us have more of drive towards sexual expression and satisfaction than other people, just like some of us have a greater need for sugar, sleep, or conversation.

Rather than arguing over semantics, I would like to hear from those who actually have a high sex drive and are single who might have practical suggestions on how to keep from feeling like climbing the walls. I remember seeing a friend's Siamese cat who was in heat, and she (the cat) would thrash around on the floor and would wail. THAT is what I feel like about 75% of the time!
I am glad that I don't actually LUST after any particular man, although I have struggled with that particular sin in the past.

I really don't think I would ever find the man with all the characteristics I am looking for. I do have a list of things that are really important to me.

Dr. Harley says you should date 30 people. I know that isn't a requirement if you meet the person who meets your most important needs right away. I'd never say, "Well, you seem to meet all my most important requirements, but I need to date another 23 men before I can decide."

The thing is...my little one's father met SO many of my needs SO well. I keep remembering how things were those first 7 1/2 months and how the only 2 things that were missing were shared faith and lifelong commitment.

He was raised as a Muslim, but isn't very religious and he does not interfere with my religious practices and encourages me to take my daughter to church with me. The only restriction is for me to not intentionally feed her pork till she is old enough to decide for herself. I think most Muslims I know don't avoid pork for religious reasons, it is just more cultural. They think it is from a really nasty animal and of course, it can cause trichinosis. So, who would want to feed your child something that has such a bad reputation?

And the commitment issue is HUGE, of course. I guess this man was a "renter". I still haven't read the book. At this point, he is very much committed to my daughter and he has been very good to me in so many ways.

But without ever having reconnected, my emotional needs are not being met. But they WERE!

I am wavering...I really need to do the Plan B. I have been trying to, but he keeps inviting me to eat with them and he calls me every day he doesn't see me and talk to me in person. I thought at first it was because he was worried about my mental state, but I think after he visited my therapist with me on Saturday, he felt better.

He used to NEVER call on Wednesdays or Sundays, and for a couple of months, he didn't call on Monday, either. (We recently switched from having dinner and hanging out together on Monday (about 2 hours family time)to him keeping her overnight on Tuesdays. So he is still seeing her on 5 days a week. Last week and this week he is trying to see her on Mondays again.

I have not been eating with him when he has invited me, but I did meet them for breakfast Wed. when I picked her up.

My therapist tells me to meet him when he asks. Said to enjoy his company and family time and how it is good for our daughter to see her parents in a pleasant context. He tells me that holding onto my anger and negativity isn't good. I think it is protecting me!

But I feel like he is poison. I feel like I need to be totally detached. I feel like if I start enjoying hanging out with him and my daughter (who LOVES for us to do stuff together), it will all be okay until I start feeling again how much I really have loved him and how much I want those good feelings back. I really don't think there is any hope for any long term change. Sure, he can give me a little extra attention for a while. But he seemed so certain that he does not want a relationship with me beyond co-parenting. He insisted, as recently as last week that he doesn't want to be "a couple", yet he really doesn't want me to be with another man, either.

I don't want to hurt. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me. I don't want someone who can't commit to forever. I don't want someone who avoids intimacy. I don't want someone who can't be open and honest (because that builds intimacy). I don't want to be with someone who can't engage in recreational companionship and private conversation (because that builds intimacy).

I am scaring myself a little. I am actually hoping that him pursuing me since I have distanced from him means that he actually has feelings for me and they might develop into something that might work for us both. If only he could recover those feelings that he used to have for me (and I am convinced that he DID have feelings), then we could be together and all of our needs would be met and we'd be happy.

In my dreams.....

I am going to spend my next session with my therapist telling him why I think "no contact" or "plan B parenting" is better. He seems to think that avoiding conflict is less desireable than "working through" it.

Apples to oranges. Sleep is a definite physical need. You cannot compare it to sex.

And you can get all of the other ENs outlined by Dr. Harley from other sources rather than a spouse.


You aren't the only person in the world with a high sex drive who has remained chaste/celibate. My own mother was single and celibate for 28 years. Divorced when she was 28. She kept herself very very busy and kept her mind OFF sex.

One problem I see with you is that you continue to maintain a relationship with a man who you find physically attractive but who doesn't want you (longterm). This is not helping your celibate state.

I agree that your child will benefit from your relationship with her father being conflict free. That does not need to extend to the close relationship you presently have and it is contributing to your desire for sexual intimacy and your inability to move forward and find someone else.

A true Plan B is not required here---he isn't an affair partner---but if you want to extricate yourself from him you must start limiting your time and conversation with him. If you are unable to do that without a Plan B situation then by all means Plan B.



You spent a lot of space writing about a man who has made it clear he doesn't want to commit to you. Stop this. Let him go. You will not be able to see the future possibilities for your life as long as you pine after this man. What man will think you would be a good mate when you are so attached still to your child's father who refused to commit to you?

Watch this:



The father of your child has made it clear that he doesn't want to commit to you. You need to let him go and get on with your life.

You'll continue to be sexually frustrated and unhappy while you sit around longing for a man who doesn't want you that way.

Kirby, I love this clip. I've shown it to my dh and my ds.

"Let folks go".

I guess you are not done with him after all. As others have said, the more time you spend with this guy, the more crazy you will make yourself.

You are allowing him to really have his cake and eat it too - all the benefits of family life without any of the effort or investment. Sweet deal...

But you can end this easily enough of course.

AGG

No, he isn't getting ALL the benefits of family life, but he has been getting the ones most important to him and it has taken him a HUGE amount of effort and investment. He lives 20 miles from me and for 3 months he drove to my house every day to spend a couple of hours with the baby and then for the next 20 months or so, he made the drive 5 days a week. He does so much more than is legally required of him financially.

So, up till a couple of months ago, he has pretty much had things arranged to suit HIS needs, but not MINE.

I have been working on changing the dynamics of this relationship for about 3 months and it is pretty slow going, but I think it's coming along. I don't feel badly about getting attached to the fathers of my children because I think that is how it is supposed to be. The problem is that it is so one-sided.

Ending this is not easy and I never thought it should be. It is a messy situation, but I have to feel that what I am doing is the best I can do for my kids. I am working through it, but .

Nice clip. I don't know much about "Medea" but this is a good point.

I think I'm still in the being sad and crying about it phase. I don't expect to be stuck here forever. I don't think it can be rushed. My therapist says you don't get OVER things, you get THROUGH them, but still, in the end, they are behind you. I'm still in the process.

I do think a modified "Plan B parenting plan" is what I need to do. It is hard because he is calling me and asking me to spend time with him. He isn't letting ME go. He had me where he wanted me and now that I'm not right there, I think he is going through more of a difficult transition than he expected. That's HIS problem, though.

My heart has been in conflict ever since my ex-husband divorced me 10 years ago. I am positive that if I didn't have kids, I would find it so much easier to move on.

I know I am not the only person with a high sex drive who has chosen to be celibate while single, but I believe I am in the minority. It isn't easy. But I'd rather have this struggle than what some have.

You said you are DONE with him other than a parallel parenting arrangement, and you also said that you are hoping that you can play the distancer/pursuer game to get him to develop feelings for you.

These are inconsistent IMO, but if it works for you, OK.

AGG

Repeat: Go and read every single article at www.baggagereclaim.com You will accomplish more to move forward than you can ever imagine.

I am working on it. I discovered that site some time ago.

Well, first of all, I'm not playing any "game". I am the one who wants out of a co-dependent relationship that is unhealthy and unsatisfying. So, I am withdrawing. He wants me where he wants me...in limbo. I had a discussion with him the other day about why he is suddenly feeling a need to call me so much. I told him that I don't want to go back where we were. He knows very well that if I had my "druthers", we would be in a committed, mutually satisfying relationship and we both know that he doesn't want that. I told him that even though he is pursuing me at the moment, he will pull away if I let him catch me, and we will be back where we started. But that doesn't keep me from wishing my daughter could grow up with her parents loving and pleasing each other.

Sure, there is a conflict. I am sure he is conflicted, too. We both wish we could get on the same page, but our emotional needs are truly incompatible and I think if either of us could adapt to the other, we would have done so by now.

I consider my sexuality to be something I prefer to keep private, but I have always considered myself to have a high drive. As a single person, I find the best way to deal with it is not think about it. The adjustment can be difficult at first when you're used to a steady diet and now find yourself alone, but with perseverance, it can be overcome. I find it best not to go there as it does no good to tempt yourself with what you can't or shouldn't have. That may not be the answer you want but it works. Regular exercise is a healthy outlet too.

If you are eading on Baggage Reclaim, by now you should have gotten to the point where you understand the No Contact Rule. I uunderstand you have a child together yhat does not mean YOU have to have contact with him - just your child does. Get an intermediary and communicate with him through him or her. Alternatively, only have contact with him to exchange critical child related communications and child exchanges. YOU are the one holding on to a dysfunctional relationship that you think is somehow going to turn into the relationship of your dreams.

I say all of this to you because I was the consmate Fallback Girl with a long history of Mr. Unavailables. It wasn't until I did the hard work within myself with help from the outstanding tough love on Baggage Reclaim that I finally moved past it all. I am no VERY happily married to a physically, mentally and emotionally available man.

Duplicate post

WOW, good for you!! Do you have kids?
I don't have much"history" other than getting really stuck on the fathers of my kids.
I don't need an intermediary. He isn't dangerous. I really don't have much contact with him. I need to remember to get off the phone quickly when he calls. And I did eat with him yesterday, but it would have been really inconvenient not to.
I think I'll get through this... Baggage reclaim is really good. It is nice that you have such a happy ending. And I am sure with "marriage builders" you'll always have a strong marriage. Maybe I will someday, too.

Well,I stay very busy. Times in the car and when I'm in bed either before I go to sleep or when I first wake up and when I wake in the middle of the night are pretty bad. I even keep things on in the car to keep me distracted and when I'm in the house alone, I am listening to stuff, but my body wants what it wants. Sometimes chocolate, sometimes sex. I do often turn to food to try (unsuccessfully) to meet my emotional needs I need a husband to fill. I guess I exaggerated some. It isn't 75% of the time, every day. But is it a lot.

Other than several months in 2007 and 2008, I haven't had much of a sex life for 11 years, so it isn't that I'm used to it and it was suddenly cut off. The 6 years or so I was divorced, I rarely had sex (only with my ex)---probably not even 12 times in that 6 year period. And I haven't been sexually active for about 4 years.

Maybe it is hormonal, and maybe it will be taking care of itself soon. I heard menopause kills women's sex drive. I went in to the Dr. today because I seemed to miss my period in January, but then it came very late, and with a vengeance. I think it was an "anovulatory cycle". I have been bleeding for 10 days now, and the last 5 have been alarmingly heavy and I am starting to feel sick. I think this afternoon it is slowing down a little, but my GYN said she can call me in some drug to stop it if I need her to. Looks like I may be "perimenopausal".

I do exercise vigorously on a very regular basis, but I don't think it helps control my sex drive. It does help me overall emotionally, though. I can tell!

I don't think I have sexual urges because I think about sex, I think it is the other way around . I actually try to NOT think about it since I can't do anything about it, and I mentioned before how I don't watch steamy movies or read romance novels or anything like that.

I guess I miss the non-sexual, affectionate physical contact as much as I miss the sex. I guess it may all be connected to loneliness.

Yes, I do have a child. He was 18 months old when my now XH left us to move back to England to be with his OW. He returned to the States when my son was 5. Since his return, he has regular (much more that our custody agreement provides) visitation with our son....notice I said HE has visitation - not WE or ME - HE. I do not go along or interject myself into THEIR time together.

YOU are the one who is refusing to let go. YOU are the one who tags along with them when they have their time together. There is absolutely no reason for you to eat with them or for you to have "family outings" with them. YOU are not HIS family. HE is your DAUGHTER's family.

Until you realize that YOU are hanging on to what YOU think is a relationship or what YOU think "could be if only" you are doomed to being alone. He has made very clear to you he does not want a committed relationship with you. In a recent article on Baggage Reclaim, Natalie Liu says what I am trying say FAR more eloquently:

You�re giving them the choice of keeping you in their back pocket for a rainy day emotional airbag to fallback on for an ego stroke, shag or a shoulder to lean on.

You�re also communicating that you�re OK with being a choice � there are other options � which allows them to keep their options open. But more worryingly, when you allow yourself to be an option, you communicate that they don�t have to choose, they don�t have to value you and they are free to reject you and pick up again when they feel like it.

Being an option means you�re uncommitted and they�re uncommitted.

It also means that you�re prevented from having the choice to be available for an available relationship because being someone�s option shuts you off to other opportunities. Don�t believe me? If you�ve ever tried to date while being an option for someone, you�ll have struggled to be emotionally present and correct because you�re unavailable and into the person you�ve optioned yourself to.

You�ll never be able to move on with your life, feel a sense of personal contentment and forge a happier, mutually fulfilling relationship with someone that values you, if you�re option for someone else that doesn�t or only values you for what they can get out of you on their terms.

My baby's father is an amputee and he was't comfortable being alone with her till she was about 2 and after that he took her by himself, About a year ago she started asking me to stay and "let's eat together" and even though neither her dad nor I really wanted to, I'd stay and eat. Yesterday he called to see her (it isn't his usual day) and we had lunch together and it really didn't make much sense for where we were for me to drop off and pick up. I have eliminated the routine Monday night get-togethers. For a while, we all thought it was a good thing for "family time", and my therapist thought it would be good for my daughter to see her parents getting along. I disagree with him on that, since I am trying to detach and move on, but we will be talking about that next session.

I am still in a transitional period. I am not an option to her dad anymore, I'm still a little sad but I think it will get better with time. I don't know that he gets ANYTHING from me. We don't "shag" he never needs a "shoulder" and although I always appreciate what he does, I don't admire him anymore. The thing he has gotten from me not being available for other men is that he had security in knowing there would not be another man in his daughter's life. I really think that is ALL he wants. But he says he doesn't even want that.

I don't expect to switch gears instantaneously and i am so prone to say whatever is on my mind at the moment and when I have conflicting feelings, i acknowledge them. I think there is a grieving process when relationships of any kind end. I know the direction I need to go in and I am on the right path, I think, i just keep looking back, but it is just been about 3 months since I have really been working on detaching. That, to me, isn't such a long time.

These are very wise words. I hope that tnmom66 will heed the advice.

Had a counseling session today with my therapist. I am going to have another session tomorrow.

I am really confused.

He is encouraging me to respond in a positive manner to my little girl's father when he reaches out to me. He encourages "hang out as a family time" because he thinks it is good for my daughter. I think what is best for my daughter is for her parents to be together and love each other, but since that isn't going to happen, I personally think the best thing for us to do is just go our separate ways. Avoid contact as much as possible.
Isn't that what most divorced/never married and "no longer interested in a relationship" parents do? That is what I do with my exH since he got a new wife. After they split up, I have accepted some invitations to hang out with him, but I don't know how common that is.

There is no doubt in my mind that IF his (ex BF, not ex H) heart was turned towards me and if we could restore the mutual attraction and affection we had for each other and he made a lifelong commitment, he would absolutely be the one person in the world who could BEST meet my needs. That's a whole bunch of "Ifs". Nothing matters, his "potential" to meet my needs and my ability to meet his, if he isn't willing.

This is a very unnatural situation. Children are supposed to be conceived in and brought up in a family where the parents are married and love each other.

I have lots of reasons for not wanting to hang out with my little one's dad. I need to be detached from him. That is what he said wanted, wasn't it? Why would I want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me? Or rather, who ONLY wants to be with me for the child's sake? If I do get married, I would expect that my husband would discourage me from "hanging out" with an ex-lover. I am afraid that if I hang out with him and get "friendly" with him, I will again start to have feelings for him and hopes that we could work out something for the long term that would be mutually satisfying.


I know it concerns my therapist that I am largely driven by spite and anger. Basically, I have told my exBF that since I tried for 3 years to get him to sit and talk with me and build a rapport with me and be open and honest so we can have a friendly and trusting relationship and he wouldn't do things MY way, now that the co-parenting relationship has deteriorated, I am not interested in talking to him or hanging out with him one-on-one, nor am I comfortable sharing a meal with him and my daughter. I have sat down twice since I meant not to, and I didn't enjoy either time. It just felt WRONG. I would rather be sitting by myself and reading a book than sitting across from the table from him. I am glad that I did have those 2 meals, just to confirm that it isn't something I want or need to do.

My therapist says I am not acting in my child's best interest. I guess he knows that I have had a good arrangement, or rather, one that met our needs pretty well for a while. I was willing to maintain it, but he was not willing to if I was looking for or getting involved with another man.

My therapist is 66 and I think he has seen a lot, but I don't think he's ever seen anything quite like my situation. There are certainly dysfunctional components that he has seen before, but we seem to be an interesting case study.

I don't know what my exBF is doing in his therapy sessions. I do know that he is still maintaining that he is my friend and wants a good co-parenting relationship and that he is not interested in being a "couple". As lately as a week ago, he seemed to think that I still wanted him to marry me.

He is calling me on days that I don't see him. I am not sure why.
He's not sure why. It is very easy for me to get caught up in conversation when I don't keep my guard up. We are talking more about the child because she is having some health issues and I am having some of my own that might require some changes in our usual schedule.

I am so glad that he is so actively involved in her life. I want that to continue.

I don't see how any child could be well adjusted seeing their father only every other weekend and 2 weeks in the summer. And you really don't know how well-adjusted someone really is until they marry and are parents themselves and see how their kids and marriages turn out. If the "traditional nuclear family" started disappearing in the 1960's, and you look at the mess this country is in now, it seems to me that there is a pretty clear "cause and effect" that has been going on. You can't really have any other situation that provides the stability that marriage does for the children.

I have so much hope after reading "His needs,Her Needs" and "Love Busters" that my own kids will be able to have happy marriages. My teenaged daughter is afraid to get married, but I have told her that if she chooses wisely and they meet each other's emotional needs and avoid "love busters", that they can have a blissful life together.

I am more and more excited about Marriage Builders as I watch the videos on youtube and read the books. There are so many sad stories, but there are also successes. I have so many friends who aren't happy in their marriages. I am recommending Marriage Builders to everyone.

In my opinion, your therapist is an idiot. Why do you even know that your xBF is seeing a therapist? Is he seeing the same one you're seeing? If so, that is a conflict of interest. If I were you, I'd change to a different counselor who is interested in helping you recover from this messed up relationship.

My xBF told me his therapist told him that I should not let my kids meet any man I might be seeing until we are in a committed relationship. He also told me that he told his therapist that I wanted to work things out with him and his therapist asked him if he wanted to, he said, "no" and his therapist told him he should't if he didn't want to.

I went with him to see his therapist and he came to see my therapist last week. I think everybody knows that neither me nor my exBF are crazy or posing a threat to the child.

We just need to get on the same page regarding our parenting relationship, which is going through a transition now that I am no longer willing to try to force myself to be happy being single and celibate for the sake of our child. I am not sorry I did try. If I didn't try to do all I could, I would have felt like I had failed my child. I have enough guilt as it is.

I am eager to see what my therapist has to say today. I don't think he is an "idiot", I just think I haven't understood him yet. He is the one who encouraged me to stop hanging on to the exBF and to see other people.

He married a girl he got pregnant when he was very young and they had 2 kids, then he married later and I think has been with her for almost 25 years and has 2 kids with her. I don't know how his co-parenting relationship was with his first wife. I don't know if he is advising me from his own experience or from what has worked best for other families, or "textbook" advice, or what.

I have been seeing him almost weekly since May and he knows me and my situation well.

His advice for me to stop trying to wait around hoping things would get better in this relationship did not sit well with me at first. I still don't know how things are going to play out, but at least I'm not in limbo.

I hate all of this.

No. You really don't.

You weren't even married to the father of your child. He has no authority over you. You have no authority over him.

I think it's wonderful that you want your child's father to be a big part of her life, but he does not need to be in your life. It's emotionally unhealthy for you. You need to look into parallel parenting.

I had the exact same thought.




You already have those feelings and hopes. That's the problem.

AGG

You expressed some good intuition regarding NOT seeing your child's father, listen to it instead of your whacked out therapist. You don't need to understand your therapist, stop trying to understand everyone else and listen to your inner voice that is already giving you the answers you need.

You situation is not that uncommon.

Your child most certainly can be well-adjusted. Some children do not have both parents in their lives at ALL (one's dead or one doesn't show an interest) and still grow up well adjusted. A lot has to do with your parenting and the support of your family and friends in your child's life.

In defense of my therapist (I canceled my appointment today because I am not feeling well), I think he is seeing some things that I am not. He thinks it is better for me to deal with the conflict and "work through" it, rather than avoid it. He thinks avoiding it will delay my emotional healing. We all know that I am not emotionally "healed" from getting dumped when I was pregnant almost 4 years ago.

I have enough insight to know what is going on between me and exbf. He is emotionally unable to commit to me and as far as I can see, does not want it and has no plans to overcome his commitment/intimacy issues enough to have a healthy relationship with me. He does want to continue to have the involvement in and control over my life that he has enjoyed all these years. I do think he is getting help to overcome his concerns about not being comfortable with this transition. I am glad he is getting support. It still isn't easy for him.

I am getting support to help me with this transition, myself. It isn't easy for me, and the fact is that if I could sacrifice my desire for emotional intimacy, companionship, and sexual fulfillment, I would be very happy maintaining the status quo and we would both be "on the same page". Since I can not sacrifice those things for the next 15 years (and even though I am willing to find someone else to meet those needs, there is no guarantee that I will), we need to write a new page together.

I just came across this in an article http://parentingoffthegrid.com/tag/co-parenting/

"High-conflict parenting is damaging to kids whether parents are married or divorced. In family law circles, it�s a basic principle that parents who remain in conflict with one another after divorce are actually maintaining their connection�albeit in a negative, hurtful way. Recently, I heard a statistic that said about 25% of co-parents have cooperative relationships, about 25% are in high-conflict, non-cooperative relationships, and the rest are somewhere in between. That high-conflict 25% are people who really do still have feelings for one another but aren�t able to acknowledge that and respectfully, lovingly separate."

I have feelings for exBF and he has feelings for me. We just don't want the same thing, so I guess I see the wisdom in working out things. When he sees that he has upset me and wants me to sit and talk with him, when he is trying to resolve the conflict and I just refuse to speak to him, or else I respond with "disrespectful judgements" and "angry outbursts", I am not acting in a very mature or productive manner. Actually, it burns me up when he does that to me, and here I am doing the same thing.

I do think we need to work on our "conflict resolution" skills. The trick will be doing that in a way that does not encourage the unhealthy co-dependent aspects of our relationship. It is all about learning new skills, I guess.

The more I think about this, the more I am starting to see things from my therapist's perspective.

And really, I cannot trust my feelings all the time. All any of us can do is what we think is right, based on the information we have at the time. I am glad I have health coverage so I can get professional advice and I am pretty sure he knows better than I do what direction I should go in to be mentally healthy and have a satisfying life.

ExBF has not started any new arguments. I think he did that at first just to have a reason to talk to me, since he had already told me he didn't want to talk to me or spend time with me if i was seeing other men. If all our emotions are calmed down, maybe it would be a good thing for us to talk sometime.

In the article referenced above, it goes on to say:
"So when I see my fianc� and his ex-wife chatting over tea, I�m really proud. The two of them must have done a lot of internal work to heal their wounds to be so kind to each other through one of the hardest jobs known to mankind�raising another human being."

Really, this situation is unnatural and far less than ideal. It will never be ideal. All we can do is make the best of what we have to work with.

We are pretty much doing parallel parenting, but I am not fully convinced that my therapist is "an idiot".

You are not in a relationship with your child's father so you do not need to be on the same page, understand each other, etc. The reason we think you don't need to see him has nothing to do with avoiding issues or healing, it has to do with triggering yourself, putting yourself in a vulnerable situation, etc. If you go back and look at your previous posts you can see how susceptible you are. In my opinion, your therapist is off base in suggesting anything of the kind. You can listen to us or not, but you came here for advice and we gave it to you, do what you want with it, I won't argue the point.

I agree that I am very susceptible. I think at least in the short term avoidance will serve me well. You can't rush through these things,but I do see the value in coming to a resolution. It may be that he is thinking that I don't need to be in this mode indefinitely. Even the parallel parenting articles I read say that co-parenting is better and it is good if it can be worked into over time. It isn't right for me at the moment.

I really think things have worked out pretty well with my exH for the past 10 years or so. It is probably more parallel than cooperative, but we are both comfortable with it. ExBF and I aren't comfortable YET, but I think we will work it out.

At any rate, I need to get control of my bad behavior.

Being completely honest with yourself, isn't it possible the reason you keep hanging on and doing things with him is because you're secretly hoping he'll see what a great Mom you are, what a great catch you are and he'll have a light bulb moment that you've been right all along and that he does want to commit to you?

That's not going to happen....This ain't a fairy tale and you're not the princess and he is a frog who is NOT going to turn into a knight in shining armor. This is real life. When he says he doesn't want a relationship with you and doesn't want to commit to you, you have to take him at face value. He means what he says. NOTHING you say or do is going to cause the light bulb to go on. You need to let go.

BTW, take it from someone who has been in counseling with many many counselors....your counselor is off his rocker and giving you VERY bad advice.

I have no secret hopes that he will ever WANT to commit to me, much less actually be able to DO it. I have spoken my desire for that to happen, but it isn't going to. I know that better than anybody. There are many things in my life I WISH were different, but I don't plan my life around the expectations that they will actually come to pass. So many things are so totally out of my control. My health, for example. I struggle with chronic illness that I will never overcome, although I manage my symptoms as best as I can. A diabetic may wish to be relieved of her illness, but that doesn't mean that even with the best of care, she is guaranteed to not suffer some loss. Again, all we can do is the best we can with what we have and what we have control over. I cannot control another person and I have a hard enough time controlling myself.

What I have a secret hope for that I am trying to give up is that I might be able to be satisfied with what he offers. He tells me often what a good mother he thinks I am , BTW.

The time I have spent with him and my daughter has often been very pleasant and enjoyed by all. I have no regrets for spending time with my child and her father in the past. I just don't think it is right for now. And I do think it is healthy to end a relationship on good terms. I need to find my "Mars and Venus" book...I remember John Gray talking about it. At this point, exBF wants to be "friends" and he keeps telling me how much he needs me and cares for me as a "friend" and the mother of his child. If that is all I needed (as it has been for a while), I would be happy to have stayed in the relationship indefinitely.

I am the one who wanted to find someone else. HE could have stayed in that holding pattern for many more years, I am sure. It isn't like he is going to be cured of his commitmentphobia and get married and live happily ever after. He wanted our daughter to have as much stability as possible and that is why he didn't want either of us getting involved with someone else. I wanted the same thing, except my definition of "as much stability as possible" meant a committed relationship with him that met my most important emotional needs. I have said before, he is committed to a relationship with me but only on a very shallow level. He can experience intimacy OR commitment, but not both at the same time.

He seems willing at this point for us to do the parallel parenting thing. I am thinking his phone calls and invitations to eat are simply gestures of good will. Like I said, he sees himself as my friend and wants me to see him that way.

I have plenty of things to work on and I am having new health problems that are forcing me to put any dating experiences on the back burner.

When I first posted on here, I was kind of upset and so was exBF. I think we are both feeling better now.

Forget Mars Venus - I've never heard such crap in all my life and believe me, I tried.....I even counseled with there Mars Venus counselors and ended up staying in a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man for 4 months after seeing big red flags because they told me oh it's just consistent with the Mars persona.

If you really want sound advice, go to baggage reclaim, click on LIst of Posts on the top right side of the screen. Start with every post under Breaking Up and, then, move on to all the other posts.

Mars and Venus has some good advice for NORMAL people! I thought at the very first that my exBF was just "going into his cave" or was "like a rubber band" and when I first was getting to know him (before we got intimately involved and I was just trying to be friendly and help him with his love life) and he kept insisting that he wasn't "normal". It didn't take me long to realize his was right, and I moved on to the "Men Who Can't Love" book and saw that he really met that profile. Pretty grim prognosis. That was before I got pregnant.

The things that are really hitting home with me on Baggage Reclaim aren't the things that say to give up on hopes that he wil change (because that has been established and accepted), but the ones like this are hitting home:

the ones about being willing to settle for crumbs

the Friend Card "Many men lack the balls to live with the feeling of knowing that they�ve behaved badly, so they throw you The Friend Card so that they feel like less of a sh*t than they really are. It is a gateway into your life and if you haven�t gotten over him and broken the emotional tie, it sets you back and prevents you from getting over him and moving on."

NCR-"the golden rule is that you can only restart or accept contact when you are completely over him and have moved on. I suggest making it permanent for men that add little value to your life." (exBF adds a LOT of value to my life through his involvement with our child through financial support and parenting time. NCR is most definitely more difficult when parenting...parallel parenting is as close as it gets, I think, when a man lives close and is actively involved in his child's life)

"If you're healing, why are you dating?".

"..you should only attempt to be friends with an ex that 1) treated you well and 2) when enough time has passed and you have both gotten over the loss of the relationship." I am most definitely not over the loss of the relationship, and he has treated me well as a PERSON, just not as a BF (which he made clear from the start that he never wanted to be. He just gave me "permission" to call him "BF" after I got pregnant and we were still seeing each other and when I called him "my baby's dad" people would ask, "Why don't you just call him your boyfriend?" )

etc., etc.

Talked with my therapist. He says we need (because of the child) to restructure our relationship and exBF and I both have things to work on before we can have a well-oiled machine as far as a mutually satisfying PARENTING relationship goes. He says that neither of us will change in isolation. Good bi-lateral parenting requires good will and cooperation but does NOT include any "romantic" feelings or behaviors.

I explained to him how I am afraid to be around exBF because when we are having good times, I feel more inclined to try to "settle" for that and it has NEVER been something I could be satisfied with for long. Sooner or later I need more than just pleasant conversation and shared family time.

My therapist seems to have confidence in my ability to maintain appropriate boundaries...I know what to watch out for. Even if I can't do it now, it is a good thing to work towards later when I am really in a different spot--which I don't think will be until either he or I are involved with someone else.

All conversation and contact must be only regarding the child.

This is a process for both of us to get through.

I don't know about the dating....I kind of think it is good for me to go out with anyone who is interested, just for "experience" because I don't think I have much to lose, and I just might happen upon the right one.

I am so incredibly lonely. I hate my situation. I know I would be a good mate for someone, I think there are many people who would be happy with me as a person, but my situation just isn't good. I have been having a bunch of health problems for about 3 weeks that has kept me our of circulation. I do think dating is good for me. I enjoy having fun with someone of the opposite sex. I enjoy getting to meet new people. I enjoy being with someone who wants to be with me.

I hate when I get this lonely, hopeless feeling.