It's been long time. I spent the last two years getting divorced and trying to weather that storm. For those of you who vaguely remember, my XW sprung the whole divorce thing on me in October of 2010 and I was supposed to transfer with the Coast Guard the following summer. Lots of things happened in between here and there but the short of it was this:

I had originally asked her to reconsider but a pivotal argument where she stated that she had pretended to be a good Christian wife, etc, etc and she was tired of pretending led to me essentially giving up. I told her I was no longer interested in delaying a divorce on Christmas eve of that year. But we agreed to wait until after transferring (me to St Louis and her following) before executing the divorce. In the mean time while under the same roof, she started sleeping around with pretty much everyone she could and very likely, she had before as well. The transfer happened in June of 2011 which was the "separation" point and the divorce was finalized in March of 2012. I have 50/50 primary custody of the kids but am paying pretty hefty child support for the privilege. Because of this, my means have decreased quite a bit but I can still provide a nice life for the kids. My XW is doing her thing and wants to be "friends." Gross.

I started a new relationship too quickly and a long distance one at that which has just recently ended in rather spectacular fashion due to dishonesty (hers, not mine). So as I look back at the wreckage of my marriage and the relationship that followed, I just wonder what is next? I try and focus on positives like doing very well in the classes I'm taking and that I should be able to start a new Masters program next summer as well as having a plan to becoming financially well off (I kept all of my military retirement in the divorce but ate all the debt). But... I'm lonely. I know I need to be lonely for a while but I'm having a hard time accepting that. So... what now then? Where am I supposed to go from here? Thoughts, opinions and comments are as always, very welcome.



Travis

Thanks for the update Travis. Sorry for your pain.

So are you in Plan B even in D?
Do you do parallel parenting while in D?

Have you read Dr. Harley's advice about dating 30 people so you can find the correct one? Choosing the Right one To Marry

Also have you read Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders? Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

What new hobbies have you started or doing for yourself? What things are you doing for yourself to heal from all this?

How are your kids doing?

Brain, no, I'm not currently doing a Plan B. The ex and I speak to coordinate schedules and payment of childcare. That's really about it. She wants to talk to me about other things but I've made to clear she's not a my friend and I'm therefore not down with non-kiddo-business conversations.

Parallel parenting is a wonderful thing and yes I do do that. I take care of all the doctor appointments, the school stuff, etc. It's great having the ability to stay the person who takes care of the kids, even if it's given the ex the ability to be the "fun mom." That has led to issues with homework, discipline, etc since that stuff isn't done at her place but the kids and I are making it work. I've had several conversations about personal responsibility and getting work done even if I'm not there to tell them to do it. It's been a struggle with my 9yo but the other two are thriving.

I've heard the "date 30 people" thing before on here but never really paid much attention to it. It was just so far in the future for me that I didn't worry. Except that now it's not in the future, it's now. This scares me. I didn't do well at the dating thing the first time around and this last relationship right out the gate was a train wreck that I never should have taken part in. I will read that article shortly though as well as pick up a copy of buyers, renters and freeloaders.

I've been lifting weights off and on. I've been pushing hard finishing up my BA. I've been... not much else. Some days I'm so busy staying afloat at work, at home and in my head that I don't have time for anything else. Others, I find myself sitting on my couch looking at the wall wondering how everything ended up this way. I think I need better time management and planning skills. And a new hobby. Maybe. lol

The kids are actually doing ok. They were quite upset the first few weeks after I told them about the divorce. They cried a few times over the following few months but most of their fear was that they wouldn't ever see one of us ever again. After they were reassured that that wouldn't happen, they were much better. I think their ability to be so OK with the divorce is a testament to their resiliency as well as to the unhealthy nature of my relationship with my ex. They seem happier. I dealt with school problems with my 9yo throughout the last year and the teachers say that they know when he's at his mothers because he doesn't do any homework on those days; that makes me sad and just a bit angry. But... we're working through it and it's a good teaching opportunity for him to develop personal responsibility. The lesson just hasn't stuck yet... lol

Travis

Well, friend you sound like you're on the right path. The dating thing is definitely an interesting thing. I wish I would've heeded the advice of the 2 year mark, but that was me.

Also have you researched the blended family aspect of the new dating? Boy that is another whole other ball of wax.

Blended families have less of a succesful rate. Dr. Harley has some excellent shows on it. It takes an excellent grasp of POJA.

Have you read opt's after divorce thread? It's an excellent read.
Opt's after divorce thread

I did just hear on the radio show that Dr. Harley read that kids do as well as in a single father raised home as a a both parent house hold compared to a single mother even though the courts mostly give sole custody to mothers. Interesting. I will find it for you.

Stay the course and stay on MB to help you with your personal growth and healing.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

If the school officials have observed that your ex wife is neglecting their school homework you have grounds for asking for more custody.
Have you considered this?

TC! I remember you and I'm glad you're doing well under the circumstances. I hope you'll hang around and maybe even lend an ear to some folks going through the divorce process. Lots of people could benefit from your experience and you have a very clear writing style.

We don't hear from Limbo much anymore, and Linus peeks in once in a while. Do you remeber Schtoop? He's in a relationship and sounds like with a nice woman. Hopefully he'll drop in to say "hi."

TC, EVERYBODY has a train wreck relationship after the divorce is final. It's like the divorce drains every ounce of sense out of your head. I don't know the extent of the trauma, but I would expect with some distance and perspective you'll eventually chalk it up to "whatever" and just learn from the experience. As long as the kids weren't exposed to anything negative I wouldn't worry about it a bit.

If you're serious about a new hobby to take up some free time, I would only suggest to do something you like to do, hopefully in a somewhat social environment. You WILL meet someone, probably lots of women eventually...it's just a matter of time and you being ready for it. I think you're smart to spend some time on education and building up your financial situation for a while.

I got involved in serious relationship before I expected to; I was just looking for some companionship when I met my fiance, Nature Girl. One thing that surprised me during the first year of our dating was the impact of the change in my financial situation after divorce. Fortunately NG is very much NOT a material girl, and we've been very happy being poor together. But looking back, the time I could have spent on my own (prior to dating) could have been spent to get a better sense of just what the net monthly income means to my lifestyle.

Your kids are lucky to have you. They will greatly benefit from your stucture and dependability.

~optimism

Brain - I don't know how much I'll wait before I take a crack at the dating thing. I know I'm not really ready to dive into it yet; I know that but at the same time, I long for the possibility of meaningful companionship. I just don't want to seek it because I have to as I'm now wary of the consequences to that.

I do know all about step-children as I had two that I raised to adulthood. So I understand how trying that dynamic can be. I'm very leery of the blended family situation from the aspect of both partners having one or more children; that would be a new one for me. So many ways that sort of situation could go wrong and I applaud anyone who can make it work! I have read Opt's thread and he is my hero; his and NG's ability to work MB principles into their relationship from almost the beginning is so inspirational.

Hey, thanks for that article and the kind words, I appreciate it! If you don't mind a question from me, why do you wish you had waited two years to begin dating?

Travis

I have. I'm keeping track of this and if it becomes a trend across multiple school years, it will be a possibility in the future. I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by the kids and that may or may not be more custody. I'm playing that one by ear still.

Opt - Thanks for the kind words, they mean a lot. I do remember schtoop and I'm glad he and you are both doing well. I've kept up with your thread throughout the last year and a half; I'm very glad you're happy and found the relationship you want with NG! Congratulations!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who lost all sense of situational awareness after the divorce and I'm very happy that the only damage that it did was to me, not the children. I'm extremely protective of them and I don't want them exposed to anyone other than my future partner, if there is such a person out there. I think they deserve nothing less. In this particular case, the woman I was seeing was being dishonest and that was a absolute deal breaker for me. I think I need to sit down and have an honest conversation with myself on what my deal breakers are as this is not something I want to figure out on the fly. I don't know when I'm going to get back on the horse and try dating again but I want to be ready for when I'm ready.

I think the hard part is going to be figuring out when that is. Is that in a month, six months or a year? How do you know? And... how do you find someone willing to use MB principles? It just all seems so daunting considering how badly the last relationship and my marriage ended.

I am enjoying being financially independent. It is stressful because there is less of everything with a hefty child support payment. But... There's no one else to wreck my financial world either so it's a pretty decent trade. My lifestyle has decreased but not massively. I'll be good to go money wise in a few years once all the debt is paid off.

Thanks again for the reply Opt, I'm glad to be back and look forward to posting relatively often.

Travis

I don't mind the question at all.

I think the 2 years is a good time frame to help yourself heal and if and when you do start dating it will give you a good balance to date many people.

I like Dr. Harley's advice to date many people to get the contrast effect. Boy if you date that many you would definitely weed out the wheat from the chaff. I did date quite a bit.

I wish I would've spent more time on healing me.
Stay around.

tc thanks for coming back for the update! I remember you and your story, and thought it was really cool how you got up to speed so quickly and helped others with really good insight into their situations. I'm glad your kids are doing well.

My kids are doing the 50 50 custody too, I wish kid could have two involved parents like that. They have that really strong bond with their dad too.

As far as the dating thing goes, it'll happen when it happens. I wasn't 100% yet but I met a wonderful guy on an online dating site in April and we've been together ever since. So I know it's possible, just hang in there. You're an awesome person and folks will see that.

TC, I would wait 2 years before considering dating. I dated almost immediately after my divorce was final and all it did was cause more stress in my life. It took me a while to figure out that dating was the last thing I needed at the time and then I took a LONG break from it. Heck, I still very seldom go on dates because I am either working, spending time with my kids, or pursuing hobbies.

When dating is low on your priority list, then you are ready to date!

Hi TC, I'm in a similar situation as you, not so much from a timing point of view, but from a "what do I do now" point. AGoodGuy has been giving me some good advice about the need for alone time after divorce. It's a tough pill to swallow because I'm a relationship person, I like being in a relationship. Sounds like you might be that way too. I'm in one now, but sometimes I wish I had taken some time before meeting her.

Rules of thumb I've heard are anywhere from 1-2 years. I've read in these forums that Dr. Harley recommends 2 years. I've also heard that if there was a lot of fighting in your marriage prior to the divorce, or if your divorce was very bitter, it takes longer than if not. I think rules of thumb are good guidelines, but it's really up to you to decide when you're centered again.

I've spent a lot of time the last few months reading articles on this website, and they're very good. Reading them 2 and 3 times is helpful, and I wish I had known during my marriage what I'm learning now. When I've shared articles with my girlfriend, I say something like: "hey, I read an interesting article from the Marriage Builders website on blended families. Would you like to read it with me?" She always says yes, and we'll read it together. One of us reads out loud to the other, and that works well for us, rather than each of us reading silently to ourselves. She's very busy with 2 kids, so I'm the one proactively pushing MB. I gave her 2 or 3 MB books for her birthday. I'd recommend trying something like that once you find someone with potential and see how she responds. You'll know if she's willing.

I, too, exercise as a way of therapy. Although I need it and do it grudgingly, I'm not a big fan of the weight-room. I prefer outside acitivites such as running and cycling. Getting out on the open road, or trail running in the woods is very therapeutic, gives me time to think about things.

Good luck with everything, and nice to meet you.

Hey NED, good to hear from you! Thanks for the kind words, I remember you as well and always thought you were the voice of calm and moderation. :-) I'm glad you're doing well with your new guy. Glad you're happy!

I agree that the 50/50 thing is really beneficial for the kiddos as long as both parents are involved. My XW is less involved but not enough to the point where the custody schedule is detrimental to them. I know in three years I'm going to transfer out of St Louis and the custody fight will happen. I'm just glad the kids and I get to avoid that for a while. They're doing really well.

I don't know if I'm going to wait two years or not as BHINWI suggested. You're right, it'll happen when it happens and I'll be ready when I'm ready. I just wish I was more patient, you know? I want to be ok and ready for the next step in my life, whatever that may be. I'm not used to be adrift like this. It's strange. :-)

Travis

TC,

Sure glad you got through the divorce, and sorry you had a train wreck relationship out the gate. I guess we all have to endure some of that..... my divorce was final 9 Jan 12, kids grown so dating is a little easier for me to do, except for that pesky waiting period....... Was working hard to get to my 30 different dates, made it to 7 and got stuck. The train wreck may be on the way but for now I am enjoying her company.

Keep your head up, I've been smiling everyday since I got D. such a relief to be free of that disaster.

SC

SC,

Good to hear from you! Glad you're doing well with your new relationship; it certainly doesn't have to a be a train wreck my friend. I'm just glad you're smiling. :-)

My train wreck just won't go away... the exGF just won't leave me be. I think my thinking has solidified more and more over the last few days that I need to take time for me and for the kids. School, fitness and the kids needs to be my focus for a while. I still don't know how long, but I'm not ready for another relationship, especially since my first one out the gate was a liar just like the XW. I need to figure out why that is.

I hope everyone had a great weekend; mine was pretty decent. Went on a movie date with my daughter to see Brave. She loved it and it was a cute movie. All around one of the better "dates" I've been on. She sat in my lap and laid her head on my shoulder with her arms around me for most of the movie. That's a girl that loves the snot out of me just the way I am. :-)

Travis

I took my kids to see brave too ;

TC, I wondered that too, why the guys I dated at first had some negative qualities in common. I wondered if it was something about me that picked these folks. But no I think it was just that my standards were too low, that I kept saying yes to the next date even after I saw the red flags. I think all you have to do is raise the bar, and then you can nip it in the bud. Then you'll still be available when the right one comes around. And like you said, you can't beat watching a movie with the kids These times don't last so it's great you're taking the time to enjoy them.

It's been a busy week. I'm a watch supervisor for a medium size Coast Guard call center here in St Louis and I'm back on watch babysitting my junior personnel and contractors. Shift work stinks! Oh well, at least I'm not on nights. I'm the watch schedule coordinator so I at least make sure that my watches match with my custody schedule. So... whenever I'm not on watch, I have the kids. That alone keeps me busy and they're starting back to school mid-way through next week.

I'm also starting another class on Monday so I expect I'm going to be pretty busy with school work again very shortly. The one thing I haven't really nailed down was recreational time which has mainly been working out and doing things with the kids. Since I know I need to get out and do things on my own for once in my life, I'm going to give that a whirl. So tonight after watch is over, I'm hitting up The King and I at the MUNY here in St Louis. I have yet to see a musical (other than Cats) live even though I love them and have been watching them since I was a small child (The King and I, Fiddler on the Roof, My Fair Lady, Singing in the Rain, etc). So.... I thought it was time to get off my bottom cheeks and go do something different. Hope everyone else has a great weekend and a wonderful evening!

Travis

That's good.
I struggle with rec time too!

Ran into my ex at the store with her latest guy. What a bag of mixed emotions. Part of it was funny because she lied to me and told me she was going out of town in order for me to take the kids earlier than scheduled. Goes to show that she's still a compulsive liar. The other part was the "guy" wouldn't even look at me and my ex had such a surprised, guilty look on her face.

I'm not sure why I'm rattled a bit, but I guess I am. Maybe because it surprised me. I haven't run into her unscheduled like that since the separation began. I did leave the store with a smile on my face; she's dating down which I found infinitely amusing.

Anyway, just rambling; it was significant enough and knocked me off kilter enough that I felt compelled to post it. Is that normal? Should this not even be a blip on my radar? I think I'll head to the gym for a bit.

Travis

TCC
I remember reading your thread some time ago and the roller coaster ride you went through. It is difficult when you have contact with your ex as those feeling of attachment will linger for some time.

I found it was easier when I moved to a different town where I was not exposed to my ex's latest "friend" choice. You are recently divorced so the wounds are still pretty fresh. It does get better with time as you focus on building your new life and finding other interests. One of the things I learned through this process is to detach. Alanon teaches how to detach with love but for you detaching is important. Unfortunately you will likely be triggered frequently as you will still be involved with her because of your children.

What did I learn? Time is a great healer. Look after becoming the best YOU, that you can be. Love your kids. Build your new life. And DETACH!

Good luck TCC.

Yes moving helps.

Detaching will help you heal tremendously.

Also you're normal, because who likes being lied to? There are posters that will come on here and lie and anonymous posters will understandably be upset.

Good to see you BCBoy! It's been a while -- hope all's well.
I believe it is totally normal what you were feeling. There's something very visceral about all this and your primative brain is telling you "alert! alert!"
You can't control that anymore than you controlled how much you sweated it out at the gym.

What matters is the way you deal with it and the way you think it through after your cave-man brain is done warning you to stay away.

It's amazing how they just don't change. I've said this before, but to me the D was so devastating and powerful that I felt compelled to question literally everything I had done in my life up to that point. Things that needed to be changed I felt it necessary to change. Waywards don't think that way. They stick with the dishonest lifestyle. Your ex is a lot like mine...still wallowing in the same bad habits.

I still have those reactions when I see exww with OM#2 (you remember my story). They apparetnly have a standing t.v. date on Wednesday night, so if I run by there with the kids (e.g. if they have to grab something) at that time, I get a little jolt in my gut. Same thing though. The guy's a loser. That makes me sad though at this point. It tells me just how far she's come - none. I wish she would reach a new level of conscious for my kids' sake. But she's stuck.

Now I'm rambling.

take care, travis.

Opt

BCBoy - Hey, you've been away from this place almost as long as I have. How are things? You and Brain have a great suggestion there; I'm just not sure how to execute that. Detach... Isn't that something that's just supposed to happen? I want to not care. I know that's what I'm supposed to do. I'm just not sure how to go about doing that. Some days I'm good to go and I hardly think about it. Others, I'm angry beyond belief at things that are long done and over. I keep thinking maybe I'm not busy enough (which is no longer true) but being busy doesn't stop my mind from doing what it does. I just don't know what to do other than to just exist and try and dig myself out of the hole she put me in.

Opt - You're a better man than me, having to see POSOM #2 so often. I don't know how you deal with it but I'm sure having NG as a support helps tremendously. You are a very lucky man.

Sigh. I don't want the woman back in any way, shape or form so I just shouldn't care what she does or doesn't do with other men. I also know that the mess she makes now will help me keep custody of the kids when I transfer out of here in three years. This hole she's digging for herself with the debt, the men and the lack of caring for the kids is just going a long way to solidifying the strong position I have for full custody. At the same time, I just wish the woman would quit lying and be a good mother. Not just a fun mother like she's attempting to be but a GOOD mother. I just don't get it.

I just wish none of this bothered me. But it does so I just have to deal with it. I'll be spending a lot of time working out over the next few months I think! lol

Hope everyone has a great weekend. I have the kiddos so it'll be a good one here.

Travis

Sometimes I become angry and think "why would she..."
But that is unproductive. Because we don't have control over other people. We only have control over our own actions.
What helps me detach is AlAnon. Their book One Day at a Time helps me focus on my own actions and not on others. Then the actions of others do not determine my state of happiness

Travis, detatchment, from what I've read, doens't just happen. There are a couple good articles out there on the subject. AlAnon has a great approach. I also feel that Boundaries is something to keep handy (the book as well as the concept). That book helped me a lot when I was at the stage you're at.

Incidentally, I think you're doing everything right. I know I got into a relationship sooner than I probably should have, I freely admit that. But what's kept it from going awry really has been NG's patience and willingness to use this program and maintain a great loving relationship in preparation for marriage. I truly am lucky.

Nothing wrong with being single however and letting that take you to new places. You are so young and there will be so many choices for you when you are ready.

Enjoy your kids. I've read some great books (recommended by fellow MBers) on parenting which certainly apply in the divorces situation if you are interested I will share titles.

happy detatching!

opt

Lol, thanks! I would indeed appreciate any books you might recommend on the subject. Thanks again Opt.

Travis

"Helping Your Kids Cope with Divorce" - Neuman.
Not a bad read and there are lots of sections, based on different ages and different subjects. Gives you a lot of info about kids' perspectives on divorce.

There's another good one, but it's not handy. I think I left it at NG's house...stand by for that.

We're also reading a book together which is called "To Raise Healthy Kids, Put your Marriage First". Surprisingly, this book has given incredible insight to me about the needs of kids and how we as a society have gone far afield when it comes to how to bring up children. You wouldn't have to be married or in a relationship to get a lot out of this book. It's written by a minister, I think (the book isn't handy either). NG and I both heard the guy on the radio on separate occasions, and we thought it sounded an awful lot like Dr. Harley/MB philosophy. So we talked about it and ordered it. It's more about the child rearing than the marriage; at least in the first 100 pages or so.

Did you find anything on "detatchment?"

opt

PS: add "Between Parent and Child" -- that's the one I couldn't remember up top. Recommended by an MBer -- great perspective.

It is not EASY to do. However it becomes easier when we become more self aware. We start to recognize what triggers a certain thought pattern. I used thought blocking. I became aware of a pattern I would fall into so at the first sign of it I would tell myself "no more of that- Stop it" and I developed a routine of thinking about something else.

We get attached emotionally to a person and that is what makes us human. There are certain steps that took place for us to get attached. There were certain triggers that caused us to fall in love with that person. So when you see that she is with someone else perhaps you can remind yourself/ or laugh about the issue that she is now someone elses problem. That you deserve better. That you are now lucky. Good luck sucker. What ever but start getting your brain to let go of the positive reminders and work toward the feeling of indifference. The object is to get to the place of nothingness. Then you have detached. It no longer matters.

For me it happened over a period of time. As I worked on myself. I listened to a speaker on time that said if you "NEED" someone to complete you then you are not ready for a relationship. So the objective is to be whole on our own. Where we do not need someone else.

I do not say this is a trivial matter. I was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. It took a lot of work. Work that should have been done before I ever got married. However when I got married I was young and naive. Well now I am not so young and hopefully not so naive. There is a lot of information out there on how to get whole or heal or whatever it is a person needs to do. It takes work, focus and discipline to do it. Initially I found it is easier to moan and complain about the situation and hope it will magically get better.

Once I got over the hurt and feeling sorry for myself I realized that if it was to be it was up to me. So I started on a path to be the best me I can be. I accept the fact that it hurt. I accept that I made mistakes. However what happened was an incident in my life, it does not define who I am, but it did point out that I need to make changes in ME. So I am a work in progress.

I hope that helps in some way.

Hi BCboy, I've been having a discussion with Indiegirl along similar lines. I'm trying to understand the concept of "need" better, and in particular how to resolve what you wrote above with what Dr. Harley writes in Buyer's, Renters & Freeloaders:

Dr. Harley says we have a need to be in a relationship, and when we're not, something is missing. The speaker you refer to says we're not ready for a relationship until we don't need one. They both sound correct, but there's a discrepancy between the two that I don't know how to resolve. The only thing I've come up with is that maybe one refers to a basic human need and the other refers to a temporary state of being needy.

It sounds like you've worked hard to reach a point of wholeness, and I'm wondering if you have any clarifying thoughts on the above two quotes.

I believe Dr. Harley is referring to an issue of desire for companionship. The speaker used the reference of Rene Zellweger and Tom Cruise where he says "You complete me" all the romantics swooned and went awww. What the speaker was referring to is we need to be whole on our own. Not that there is something missing in us, we are capable of standing on our own. There is a desire for companionship for a variety of reasons, however the speaker was saying that you should not have to have someone because something is missing. These relationships are fraught with problems.

However to have someone that compliments you, and you are attracted to, and are appreciative of from a position of wholeness is a foundation for a healthy relationship. So I think the key piece is the concept that we need someone else because we are deficient in ourselves. That is different than attraction and desire.

Does that make sense?

Thanks for elaborating, and yes, it does make sense. This is one of those topics that I have a vague understanding of but don't yet know how to put into my own words. When I can confidently explain it to someone else, then I'll know that I really know it. Until then, it helps to hear other viewpoints. Thank you!

Well put, BCboy. Of course we all have a natural desire for companionship and intimacy.

I'm recently divorced. Been in the desert for about 5 years now, so feeling the need for female companionship too. But I'm not planning to jump into another relationship anytime soon. My plan is to eventually start dating, but to just have fun and take it slow. Having two daughters (10 and 13)is a reason for me not to get too deeply involved. Don't know how I'd have the time for my demanding, time-intensive job, my girls, and a girlfriend.

Just going to enjoy being single for the first time in 28 years.

It's been a while since my last update so I thought I'd type how things are going out. I've been on a fitness and fat loss kick. I'm trying carb-cycling with great results; I've lost eight pounds of pure fat in 3 weeks which is right on pace for where I want to be. I'm planning a week long vacation to MD with the kids to see some old friends and my goal is to be back to bootcamp weight (168 lbs) by then (second week in Oct). I'm 12 pounds away so it should be doable or I should get really close. I haven't been this light and this strong in a long time. Detachment is still a work in progress. I have moments of weakness and I try to deal with it with varying success by going to the gym. At least I'm getting thinner! lol

I also started "dating" again so to speak. As in a singular date through match.com. It's a different world out there from what I last remembered. I'm rationalizing it by saying I need the experience. This is definitely true. I was a nervous wreck and had no idea what I was doing. I'm pretty sure this will get better as time goes on but we'll see; I'm not a stunningly flamboyant or outgoing person. The date itself was fine although the woman turned out to be a complete nightmare. I'm taking out someone else for coffee this Saturday. Equal parts excited and nervous. I have a nagging suspicion I'm also dating to give myself hope in the relationship arena. I know it has given me a confidence boost because women are interested; this is something that I was irrationally worried about to an almost paralyzing degree.

Detachment is going a bit better; I have some mental exercises that I do to stop the train of thought when it hits me. I would share but it involves a lot of swearing at myself and might be classified as self-mental-psychological-abuse. If there is such a thing. :-) The short and sweet of it is between prayer and telling myself to shut-the-front-door, it's getting a little better. I also told the ex when she started to get more chatty and friendly that I could not be her friend because we are divorced and she is seeing other men. After that, she's left me alone for the most part and that has helped as well.

Opt - I did pick up "Between Parent and Child" and should start reading it this weekend. I'll pick up the other two once I'm done with it. Thanks for the recommendations!

Travis

Sounds like you're doing very well Travis. Good for you.

Thanks, I'm trying. It's hard work getting my head on straight!

Well keep moving forward. You may stumble, but as long as you keep moving forward you will be ok. Before long you will look back and won't believe how far you've come.

Also getting your head on straight. Are you talking about the detachment?

Yup. Takes hard work to get on with life. :-)

I encourage you to plan b your ex to help you move on.

I am also recently divorced. I established "limited contact" with my ex. I have not spoken or seen her since divorce in July.

I also registered at match but Im unwilling to pay their fees. Also I decided after registering that I want to be single for a while. I want to get through my foreclosure and get my career back on track and then approach it. But I am keeping all options open.

I was in a coffee shop the other day and saw an attractive woman teasing a kid and I went over and made a joke. I felt strange and out of place because I haven't flirted for 10 years. That's a long time.

But at this point I could be single and content for ever. Exercise is awesome. You are doing an awesome job of kicking the fat.

But please consider plan B for your own sanity. I am in heaven away from my wife.

Oh and I understand your last statement about its hard to move on.

I've been struggling with that all day today. We will have good days and bad days.

I just replay phrases I learned from AlAnon in my mind on the bad days.
And remember to focus on Myself and my actions. And to not allow fears to cripple me

And good luck with your coffee date !

Thanks HDW, I appreciate it! I'll consider plan b and see if I can make it work with what I have going on with the kids. I "think" that it would be difficult with 50/50 custody as there's a certain amount of schedule juggling that has had to take place with my job. But I'll give it a long hard look because I would definitely like to not have to see/hear the ex for my own piece of mind.

The coffee date went really well; it went from 2pm coffee to an early dinner to a LONG night of just sitting in the restaurant talking. It was very cool and a definite success.

Travis a few posters in plan B set up the google calendar where each parent puts the scheduled events. So no need to have to talk.

Also if you get an IM all correspondence goes through them and it deals with pertinent information. All fluff is left out and you never have to hear the drama because your IM filters it.

It is a dream for having to deal with an ex and children.

Completely missed that I've been divorced for over six months now. Good deal.

Brain - thanks for the suggestions. I may have to give that a whirl.

TC! I'm glad your date went well. I was going to make a couple suggestions because I think you said you were nervous, but I guess you did fine!

Plan B might take a little while to get to but I think all the recommendations are good ones and well meant. I'm 50/50 too, so I get where you're coming from.
I'm at a very limited amount of "contact" which consists of scheduling and anything that might involve kids welfare. For a while there were discussions of how each other was coping and all that -- totally unnecessay and did little to help the recovery. I will admit I've suggested she read some of the same books I have read about parenting - in hopes that we would either have the same philosophy or at least she would understand my approach to things if it came up. It must be so hard for kids to be raised in 2 households.
I digress. I have limited face-to-face contact by not going up to the house to get the kids. I call them and tell them to be ready when I'm on my way. Sometimes that helps.

The Google Calendar didn't work for me although I can see it's usefulness. I just got more screwed up having to go the computer for one more thing. I guess I'm just not into the computer and exww even moreso. We just inform each other with this stuff.

I was going to say you have nothign to worry about with the dating. I believe you'll be highly sought after and a plus to the dating pool. I can just say to have fun and be careful and listen to anything AGG has to say.

opt

I can provide you with templates if you want to go limited Contact with your ex wife.
I use google calendar and there are resources in the plan B thread also

Travis,

Another outstanding book on parenting that I would highly recommend is How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk - it was truly a blessing for me when I was raising small kids.

A couple of dating thoughts for the-newly-divorced-dad: take your time to heal before getting serious with anyone. I am sensing some issues with the ex (I hate to call them unresolved, but they seem bordering on it) - realize that you are not a healthy partner to anyone until you are truly over the divorce, the ex, etc. Otherwise, you are using the other person as a crutch.

Similarly, realize that at this point, anyone who smiles at you and shows an interest in you will feel like a drink of water to a man dying of thirst. It's all good, but don't let that cloud your judgement... Go slow with anyone, and preferrably have a few dates with different women before getting involved with any of them.

Hope that helps,

AGG

Dr Harley recommends dating at least 30

at least 30 before settling on one to marry, not before getting serious with anyone .

AGG

AGG - I understand the point and I don't know 100% if I'm ready to go with the dating world but I like this one that I'm dating now so... I'm going to see where it goes understanding that I'm going to proceed at a slow bell. I'm relatively cognizant of how I feel and I know what I want; I think I have everything under control but... I guess we'll see. I'll say that I don't plan on diving into anything head first but I have dated a little and I don't want to stop the development of a potential relationship with the Accountant (I guess I'll call her that here) because of an arbirary 30 dates hasn't been met or whether I've reached the place where I know under no uncertain terms that I'm completely over everything pertaining to the divorce. I understand the reason for both though.

Need a suggestion here from the board: does anyone have any really great third date ideas? Second date went really well but I'm kind of drawing a blank on a third. I was thinking about cooking her dinner. Also thought maybe something outdoors like the zoo or a short hike. Thoughts?

Travis

Hi TC, something outdoors sounds good. I have a couple potential dates that may happen soon, and I decided that a weekend daytime activity like a bike ride or hike with the dogs, something like that would be a nice way to get to know someone; having fun doing something you both enjoy.

I don't know why I think this, but an evening date seems like something I want to avoid for a while. Maybe it's the uncertainty of how to end the date. A hug? A kiss? A simple goodnight? A daytime date seems easier to end. Maybe it's just me though, I don't know.

I would think about what you liked about the first two and build on that. Present it to her in that fashion as well -- "I really like talking to you so I was thinking a walk at this park I heard of would be nice."

Or something she's told you that she likes - you could start there. (bike riding, classical music, art museum).

Actually -- art museum is great because there is so much stimulation for talking about things. NG and I had an early date (3rd or 4th I think) at an art museum and had a great time. They usually have a cafe in there to sit and talk also.

NOTE: it's never too early to POJA. Present an idea and ask how she feels about it, have an alternate in mind. That way you can't go wrong...AND you have set the tone for decision making in the future - not one-sided or compromise or "taking turns" more joint decision making.

You'll be fine if you keep it simple and then be open to a little spontenaiety (like a foray into a candy shop, or bakery for a snack, or buying a kite at the local store and flying it for an hour or so).

Just a couple of thoughts for your consideration TC.

opt

I think it really depends on you and her. I like the outdoors, so for me a hike would be a great idea. If she's outdoorsy too, then she will like it too - if not, well then that's a useful piece of information. If you are artsy, then hit the art museum. You get the idea - do something that you really enjoy, it'll be a good test of your compatibility in that arena.

AGG

Hi TC, I had a couple follow-up thoughts on this:

• I'm with you on the 30 dates rule. If you meet someone and feel the chemistry, why would you put that on hold and date 20 or so other people just so you can satisfy a rule of thumb? If you know what you want, and it feels right, go with it. I know others don't agree, but I'm with you on that one TC.
• Regarding being completely over everything pertaining to the divorce, you probably won't ever be completely over it. Feelings will subside, they'll get less and less intense and occur less frequently, but they'll probably never go away completely. That advice from my counselor early in divorce recovery helped me have realistic expectations and helped me move on.

When is your third date? Let us know what you decided to do and how it went. I have a first date with someone tomorrow afternoon; we're taking our dogs for a hike in a state park.

Not to derail Travis' thread, and not to disagree with you KL, but keep in mind that chemistry is a tricky thing. I've felt chemistry many times with women who were wrong for me, just as I developed incredible compatibility with someone with whom I may not have had that strong initial chemistry.

And I agree, if you meet someone, like them, and want to keep seeing them, you should not put that on hold just to satisfy some rule. What I believe is meant by "date a lot of people" is that you can date more than one person at a time, and that way you stay more balanced and more aware of your options. As everyone says, it's like shopping - you can (and should) go out and look at more than one house before you buy one, it gives you better perspective. I know, some people see their first house and say "I love it" and buy it, but the suggested approach is to see several - and if that first one was indeed the best one, well then you'll be that much more sure after you've seen some others.

You do not need to "go steady" after one or two dates. You can meet other people, while still seeing the first one and enjoying her company. There is nothing wrong or immoral about that, assuming that you are just going out on dates and are being honest about the non-exclusivity.

Exclusivity is a form of committment, and should not be rushed into, because if you make that comittment too early and then decide you want out, it gets a bit awkward.

AGG

TC, please let us know if this IS derailing your thread. I value AGG's opinion as he has given me a lot of solid advice, and I wanted to follow up with something he wrote:

Can you give some more details on how that happened? If you didn't feel strong initial chemistry, what kept your interest to the point that you eventually developed incredible compatibility? Also, when you first started dating your now wife, were you dating other women at the same time? If so, what led to an exclusive dating relationship with her? I'm curious about how your example of a successful relationship developed. Thanks!

Derail away, I don't mind at all!

The date went really well. I went with my initial gut instinct and had dinner at my place. I made italian; broke out The Silver Spoon and went to town. Wine, candles, music, etc. It was a really great date because we both relaxed A LOT and got to know each other much better in a comfortable setting. It was a really great time.

That's great

tc that's awesome!

Sure, ask and you shall receive . Let me tell you about chemistry and me... When I first started dating after my divorce, I was mostly using Match to meet women, since I didn't come into regular contact with single women through my everyday activities. Well, as you know, the first thing you see on Match (as on most sites) is the photo. So naturally my initial filter was "looks". And not being a dope, I went for the "lookers" - after that initial filter, I would read the profiles to see if they sounded like good matches for me.

Well, as I started meeting some of these women, the ones who were the easiest on the eye got my attention the most. And if they happened to be sweet, intelligent, and said all the right things, well that usually shot the chemistry right through the roof. The two problems with that were that I too easily dismissed the women who may not have been as stunning as others, and I was too willing to accept the wrong matches because of the "chemistry". So on my first few attempts, I met women with whom I had great chemistry, had a few great dates, and then made the mistake of becoming involved in exclusive relationships - only to find out that they had issues that I did not want to deal with, but by then I was already sort of involved.

I was regularly (and deservedly) beat up here by folks who told me that I should not be spouse shopping, but just going out and meeting women casually. I fought them tooth and nail (I'm a slow learner), saying that I knew what I wanted and if I saw it, I didn't need to date others... But of course I just kept getting involved too soon, instead of approaching dating more casually.

So eventually I listened and joined Eharmony. They still had the photos of course, and I did not bother with those women I found totally unattractive (AS is important to me) - but I became much more focused on personality over looks (I know, how obvious is that?). Bear in mind, this is about 7 years after my divorce - like I said, I'm a slow learner.

I started being more casual in my dating. I had read some good books about dating, and was really focusing on compatibility instead of chemistry. Do we have the same hobbies, the same values, the same interests, the same views, the same energy levels.. None of these are chemistry, but chemistry without these things is worthless.

I met my now-wife, J, on Eharmony... J was not the most stunning woman out there, but I had long ago given up on beautiful women, as they all seemed to have issues (no offense to the beautiful ladies out there). But J had the sweet girl-next-door type looks, a beautiful smile, and intelligent eyes. So I gave her a try. Because I typically had 3-5 women that I was communicating with at any one time, my initial e-mail to her called her by the wrong name, a name of another one of my matches. Ooops. Well, good news is that J had a sense of humor and this mistake got me noticed.

We settled on a coffee date pretty quickly - she did not want to invest much time in e-dating, and we never even talked on the phone before meeting for coffee. Our conversation was wonderful, she striked me as an intelligent, self-aware, well adjusted, calm, and normal kind of a lady, with many interests that matched mine. So our coffee turned to dinner, and I enjoyed our time way more than I expected.

I still had 4 or so matches that I was pursuing, and I had a few coffee dates here and there, while meeting J about once a week. It made for a great comparison - in fact, there was one woman I was in contact with who qualified for "off the charts e-mail chemistry" - she was gorgeous, she was flirty, she said all the right things, and if it hadn't been for J, I probably would have gone to meet her. But by then I was realizing that J had everything I wanted, and I did not see the need to go meet someone else. That's when I decided to become exclusive with J, although we never actually discussed the concept - it just became clear to both of us that we wanted to focus on each other. But this was after about 3 months of dating, and I think that committment to exclusivity was justified.

So in summary, I had met many women with chemistry but without the compatibility. With J, it was the other way around - the compatibility was perfect, and the chemistry that followed was off the charts too - I would have never expected to develop chemistry based on compatibility, but that is exactly how it worked.

Anyway, I hope this helps explain why I am a big proponent of dating several people casually, and not jumping into any relationship feet first based just on "chemistry".

AGG

Wow AGG! That belongs on MY notable post list! Thanks for sharing that.

Hypothetically speaking, if you had met J on Match when you first started dating, do you think the results would've been the same?

Sadly, probably not.. Then again, maybe that's good - had I seen her then, I would not have been ready for her and would have let her slip through my fingers. But since I met her when I did, I was ready for her, and knew I had a gem on my hands .

AGG

Thanks for your insight AGG. For those of us who are not as many years removed from our divorces, what's difficult, at least for me, is that if I meet someone I like, I fight this internal battle that says on the one hand, I should be dating casually to see what's out there, vs. on the other hand, she might be the equivalent of your J and I don't want to "let her slip through my fingers."

Seven years seems like a long time. I hope it doesn't take that long to be ready for "the one."

Another comment of yours,

makes me think I should keep my dating experiences to myself (I had a date last weekend where 2 hours turned into 6, we made some plans for next weekend, and I already feel the beginning of the internal battle I mentioned above; but this is TC's thread, so I'll leave it at that!)

I'm probably like you in that I'll be a slow learner, and as much as I appreciate your advice, something tells me this will be one of those lessons I'll have to learn by trial-and-error. Why can't we simply listen to good advice and follow it? I don't know, part of human nature perhaps?

At any rate, your advice is well-taken and I'm sure will influence my decision-making process. Thanks and I hope others benefit as well.

Sure, that's always a possibility (look at opt's example!), which is why I started out having relationships instead of dating casually - I figured I didn't need to date around if I found someone who was "the one" for me. But I guess my picker was off, because I kept picking women who turned out to be wrong for me. Whereas by the time I met J, I pretty much knew from the start that she was the one - but I continued to meet some other women casually until the time that I was actually sure that J was the one. Dating casually does NOT preclude you from building a relationship with someone you think may be better suited for you than the others - it just keeps you balanced. If someone you meet starts pressing for exclusivity early on, that would be a red flag for me.


Absolutely, most of us are like that, and I would not want you to do things (or not do things) just because someone on the internet advised you to . We all have to learn for ourselves, even if through the school of hard knocks!


Anytime!

AGG

All kinds of things happening in the land of Travis since I last posted. Well... maybe not all kinds of things but certainly a few noteworthy updates:

School is progressing swimmingly; I signed up for two more classes for the late fall semester and I "should" be good to go, done with everything next May. I can see it... that light at the end of the tunnel. Only I'll be proceeding directly into another tunnel called grad school! lol

The kiddos are doing really well. Aside from a few minor issues with dishonesty, I think they're pretty happy and healthy. I got a chance to see how they are living at their mother's house and I'm not impressed though. Dirty house, dirty rooms - they tell me that it bothers them living like that. I just have to let them know that they have a responsibility to keep their rooms clean at their mother's house, just like they do at mine. I'm big on personal responsibility and honesty so... they're learning. It's a tough thing to teach other than by example.

I've managed to see A a few more times since I last posted. She really is an amazing woman. Smart, sarcastic, funny, quick witted, affectionate, a good mother, a incredibly hard worker... I really like this one a lot. Trying my darnedest to just enjoy this because it really is a whole ton of fun. It's truly amazing spending time with an attractive woman who meets so many of my needs and wants. I'm referring to that checklist that we all do up after we divorce regarding what we want in a future relationship, not EN's per say although she meets quite a few of my needs there as well.

Something that is taking some getting used to is that she is extremely independent financially. I guess I'm used to paying for everything so when she took me out for dinner and drinks last night, it was a really nice change of pace. For her part, I was the first guy to buy her dinner since she was divorced. Makes me wonder where manners and chivalry went. In any case, it's nice to be with someone who doesn't "need" me in that way. Different yet liberating.

I'm meeting her two girls (11yo and 14yo) tomorrow. I've met them in passing when I picked her up the other night but tomorrow I'm going with her and her daughters (and several of her daughter's friends) to Six Flags for the eldest girl's 14th birthday. I'm excited and yet a bit nervous. Most of all, I'm looking forward to a really great day with a wonderful woman. Haven't been to an amusement park in years!



Travis

Have fun Travis.

Enjoy this time. Be the great guy that you are and her DDs will see that.

Have fun on the rides.

Travis,

Sounds good on the situation with A; I would just caution you about the involvement with kids. I'll be the first to say that I introduced my kids to my dates too early when I started out, so I don't want to come across as a hypocrite. But as I was looking back, I realized that slow is better.

AGG

Thanks Brain, it was a really great time! It ended up being a whole weekend thing in that she invited me over Saturday night to hang out with her and the girls and then we did the Six Flags thing on Sunday which was really cool. They're all adrenaline junkies and I managed to hang in there with them ride for ride even if I was just a wee bit queezy at the end of the day.

So... yeah. It was a really great weekend. I got along with her kids very well and there didn't appear to be any issues. Had a blast and loved spending essentially almost the entire weekend with her and her daughters.

Travis

I definitely understand where you're going with this AGG. I've thought about this long and hard; I am having a hard time striking that balance in this aspect. In regard to her kids, she was comfortable having them meet me because as she put it, "it's not their first rodeo" in regard to her dating and they're old enough to know what her and I spending time together means. They're her kids and she definitely knows best in that arena; I was comfortable with it and would never gainsay per point of view.

In regard to my kids, they're a bit younger and haven't done this whole "dating" thing with me. With their mother, yes but not me. So... I'm being a bit conservative. "A" and I have talked about this in brief and she's comfortable with what I'm comfortable with. I haven't talked about this in specifics with her yet because she knows that meeting my kids is a bit further off in the future as long as everything keeps going the way it's going but I've started to think about the particulars a bit.

She and I are both going on separate vacations in Oct. The kids and I are going to DC to visit friends the week of the 6th and she's leaving on her own vacation with her kids the weekend I get back. So... I'm thinking of POJAing with her about meeting them with my initial request of timeframe to be after we're both back and settled down a bit, during the last two weeks of the month. She and I will have been seeing each other a month and a half by that point. I "think" that is a good time frame. I want to ensure she and my kids are going to be "ok" together without any huge issues. I think that's an important aspect of this. That and testing out POJA this early on would be a good exercise for the both of us in communication and negotiation.

Thoughts anybody?

Travis

A good rule of thumb is to introduce the children once you have been dating for 6 months and your relationship has progressed to the point where you are dating exclusively. That way your children avoid potentially bonding with people only to see them disappear but you still get a chance to observe carefully how that interaction works before it is too late.

Travis, I introduced my kids as soon as I had a good gut feeling my boyfriend was a "keeper." I think you'll have a pretty good idea by the month-end. That was good for me because it made sure I stopped wasting time with folks once I saw they weren't a keeper.

Somehow I really don't like how that sounds, but like you said, they are her kids, she can decide... You of course get to decide what that means to you... Example - my first post-divorce relationship was with a woman who had the mindset that the adults might as well meet the kids ASAP, since there is no sense investing time in the relationship if things with kids didn't work out. She sort of guilted me by saying that I was sheltering my kids from the "real world", and that her approach of dragging her 2 yo on dates was more realistic, blah blah. Anyway, in hindsight that was a mistake. So maybe I am just reacting poorly to this "first rodeo" comment because of my past experiences, I dunno. I just don't like to think of kids being dragged into too many different dating experiences as something to strive for.

Again, everyone has their own approach, but my suggestion would be to hold off on involving kids until a few months of dating have passed.

AGG

That seems real early to me

living_well - I certainly understand the bonding with someone who may not be there in the future concept. I've already reached that exclusivity part... although I understand that some on here may not agree with that. Neither of us is dating other people. I told her after the second date that I was interested in her enough that I had "hid" my match profile but that she in no way should feel obligated to reciprocate. I had zero issues with a lack of exclusivity at that point and didn't expect it. She had done the same thing already.

So the thought process was that I liked her enough that I wanted to focus on seeing how it went with her. That's what made sense to me and I sort of fell into that mind frame because I was talking to other women and had dates... I just was no longer interested. I hadn't intended on doing it that way but honest to goodness, I just stopped being interested in other people after date #2. Probably doesn't make any sense at all but that's where I'm at.

I like you're thought process on this one and I'm inclined to agree. I'm going to think on it some more. I want to do right thing for everyone.

AGG - You're right, I can decide what it means to me. At this point it's not a negative because I'm not getting pressured to introduce them to her. Quite the opposite in that she's advising caution when it comes to my little ones due to their age and relative newness to the post-divorce dating process. I can't fault her for that and I can't fault her for knowing her kids.

I'll think about the time-frame and see how it goes over the next couple of weeks before I talk to her about it. Right now, I just want to spend time with her and don't see kids as a whole as an extension of the dating process as the woman you dated seemed to think. I do think that the kids are an important aspect at some point though. This deserves some more thought.

Do your kids know you're dating?

What do they think?

When you meet someone you really, really like the feeling is very intense and of course you are not going to be interested in dating other people. At the same time you need to be aware that this might not last so be sure to preserve your life outside the relationship.

Enjoy the magic of infatuation but keep it just between the two of you. Plenty of time to bring children into the picture once you really know each other which takes months because you have to be in a lot of different situations to know who she really is. I was lucky in that my children are older and so I told them I had met someone and we agreed the six month time frame together.

They do know, I've been up front with them about it. I wanted to make sure they were OK with the idea and that they had some buy-in to the whole process. I'm very lucky in that I have children that have rolled with the punches so to speak incredibly well.

My daughter and youngest boy have absolutely no issues with it conceptually. They think the idea of me dating at this point is "cool." My 11yo is more reserved; I talked to him about the prospect a few days ago. He's perfectly ok with me dating, he's just nervous about meeting someone new because as he put it, he's just nervous about meeting new people. That fits in with his personality; he has a hard time starting new schools and grade years.

I don't expect entirely smooth sailing with the kiddos just because things are never truly that easy. Just trying to make sure they know that they're important throughout all of this divorce and post divorce "thing".

Travis

Cool idea getting the kids buy in like that. I like it!

TC, I've been following but haven't had much chance to post. I mentioned your situation to NG and she thought it was awfully early to get the kids involved at that level. She had a lot of dating experience prior to meeting me and so I respect her opinion on that type of thing. To paraphrase she was saying that you have potentially your whole lives together, so there is no reason to rush that part.

In my experience I would stick with the suggestion of, say, 6 months. And don't listen to the kids. My son thought it was cool that I was dating, but then when he was actually faced with the prospect of a step-mother entering the scene, things changed a lot. They really don't get the dating/relationship thing - their insight does not really reflect what is right for them (e.g. they'd probably love to try sword swallowing or cliff diving, too, but you'd intervene I'm sure).

You have plenty of time to really get to know EACH OTHER. Bringing the kids in to the relationship complicates things for sure.

I'm just reiterating what others have said... hopefully it still helps.

opt

Hey opt, how are things?

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. Honestly, I'm still inclined to think that six months is too long. I'm not sure why I feel this way but I do. Haven't made a final decision either way yet though. I agree with you regarding not listening to the kids; I'm cautious. I know there will be issues of some sort or another but I'm hoping to mitigate them as they come up. Trying to just keep talking to them and getting their honest take on all things.

I'll be thinking about this my entire trip. Maybe I'm over thinking things. I dunno.

Travis

Now that vacation is over, I'm back on watch (12 hour shift work) for four weeks at work and generally settled back into a semblance of a routine I thought I would throw an update out here.

Vacation was very good from the perspective that I got to spend time with the kiddos and see some very old friends that we love like family. It was an adventure driving the 900 miles with the kids; it was by far the longest car ride they've ever been on. The boys were sort of introduced to recreational archery (they did a little of this in school but the training bows are not the same) and I think it's something that we can do in the future together for some serious FC time. Bows for Christmas it is!

I did however miss A very much and couldn't wait to get back. She had a vacation as well a few days after I returned so it was tough dropping her off at the airport but she had a good time and came back safe so all was well. Our relationship has progressed quickly since I last posted. She and I are spending a significant amount of time together; mostly every day I don't have the kiddos. Her girls are heavily into sports after school which makes scheduling time together somewhat problematic; we have just had to remain flexible and grab our time when we can. I haven't broken out how much UA time we're spending together; perhaps it's something I should start keeping track of but I would say based on LB deposits, we're hitting the 20 hrs a week mark. It really is amazing to be with a woman who so effortlessly meets my needs and is so happy that I'm meeting hers.

I did introduce her and her children to mine with really positive results. The kids really seem to like her and have thus far gotten along with her daughters VERY well. They have a lot in common I think and A is very good with my children. Having both sets of children involved occasionally has added a new dynamic to the mix but not a bad one; I feel very comfortable now going forward that while I'm sure there will be issues to POJA regarding the children at some point in the future, there are no major personality conflicts right off the bat (which would have been a major barrier).

We're also very much opening up to each other about all kinds of things. For instance, one thing she appears to be very concious about is the possibility of infidelity. Her deceased WXH was a serial adulterer and two of her relationships post divorce have ended due to cheating. During relationship conversations over the last few days she has brought up that topic several times, enough for me to ask about it and start a conversation.

So I think I need some help, especially from those of you who have been BHs or BWs. While my WXW cheated on me heavily during the divorce process, I was not concerned about it from the aspect of recovery so I don't know much about EPs. This is obviously a big deal for A; I talked to her a little bit about my own personal EPs in so far as I am not willing to be alone with women other than her. I would like to suggest to her some exclusive relationship appropriate EPs that we could put into place that would ease her mind on this. What I mean by this is that things like complete transparency in a married relationship is essential but isn't appropriate at this stage in ours; I'm not ready for anyone to have access to my bank accounts for example. Could you folks help me brain storm on this one?

Ultimately I'm very happy with the way things have been going. I'm learning more and more about A every day. We're learning how to more efficiently meet each other's needs and I love the way we fit in each other's world. I took her to a dinner party for work Friday night and she was a instant hit with my friends and coworkers. I met her father a couple of weeks ago and he and I got along great. We're making plans together for the holidays which is very cool. We've been moving very quickly down the relationship road but we're comfortable with where we are right now. At this point, we're enjoying the heck out of each other and are in no rush to move things along any faster than we already have. Enjoying this stage in our relationship immensely. Life is really good right now.

Travis

Nice to hear things are going well Travis.

What EPs would you like to see? What would make you comfortable? Open cell phones?

I suggest you email your question to Dr Harley on the radio show email link

NG's dad was a wicked philanderer. It's a major concern for her. Frankly I don't know why she stayed with me after I told her early on (in the interest of full disclosure) that I had committed adultery on my wife. But she did and we do address O&H from time to time.

I like being held accountable. It actually makes ME feel safe, for some reason. Probably because I was wayward once and know what a slippery slope it is. I leave my phone out, call NG during the day, tell her my schedule. (when we're married we'll share email I suppose, but niether of us has FB accts. and we don't socializewith others after work or anything.)

Sometimes I have been impatient when she asks where I was, but I remember how important it is that she feels safe, so I just go through it systematically; hopefully in a nice tone.

Keep in mind also, you are dating. Hopefully AGG will weigh in with some practical advice on the subject. I'm just telling you what I've experienced.

opt

As I heard at a relationship seminar once (yes, I actually went to one ), "Infatuation is a great phase, enjoy the heck out of it. Just don't make any permanent decisions during that phase. And be prepared for when the next normal phase, Disillusionment, hits ya".

Sounds like you are doing good .

AGG

TraTravis I love the update, good for you! It's awesome when you find new favorite FC stuff I don't think you need to try to count UA time just yet, like you see at this stage it takes care of itself!

My fiancee was the BH twice, so I let him know right off the bat that I'm a big believer in transparency. I am an open book and my cell phone is out and all, but we haven't discussed EPs in detail. I figure that would come in time.vis I love the update! My fiancee was the BH twice, I am an open book and my cell phone is out and all but we haven't discussed EPs at all, I figure that would come later. My fiancee is the