Hi, I do not remember if I have posted here before, but my username exists, so I might have

I am a single mother with a 15-year-old son. My BF of 5 years and I just split up this weekend. I have not been happy and was dreaming of ending this relationship for the past couple of years. It finally happened, yet I feel so lonely and scared. I miss him.

Shortly after we began dating, he moved in. He has his own house, however never really lived there. When his mother was still alive, every time we had a fight, he packed up and moved back to his mother's. Ever since she passed away, I noticed that each time we fight, he says he will leave but he never did, since it will require him some work to make his own house livable.

The reasons I have grown to resent him and begun to feel I do not have any more love left for him include his nasty mean attitude towards my son and his negative personality in general towards every aspect of life. He is not a giver, he is a taker. He loves people who offer free drinks and food, but he rarely offers the same to others. Likewise, he has lived in my house for 5 years but never once paid any rent, utility costs, food costs. He only pays when we go out to eat, which he thinks sufficient to offset these costs. But we only go out 1-2 times a week at reasonably priced places ($6-12 per person), and I am certain these costs do not cover what he would have needed to pay.

Still, when he was more upbeat and helpful (e.g., helping out with the yard work), I bit my lips and tried to reason that it is ok. However he constantly nags, yells at, calls names, and ridicules my son over every single thing. Shoes by the door (which he does himself), messy sink (which he does too and he never once cleaned his sink that only he uses during this 5 year period), 3 pieces of rigatoni (! he says it should be only 1 piece of past on the folk..., that is beyond ridiculous), etc., etc. At the beginning, he yelled at my son even for singing in his shower, which is far away from our bedroom and bathroom. When we met, my son was only 10 and still sometimes wanted to hold my hands when we went out. My BF did not allow that.

My son has a very friendly, sociable and sweet nature, so despite all of these treatments, he used to ask my BF to play basketball with or ping pong together or cards. My BF never took up on my son's requests.

So now my son is a teenager, naturally and understandably, without any solid bond or positive foundation, yet my BF continues to call him names on small things, he began to resent and absolutely HATES my BF now. I have had numerous talks with him. He always said he acts this way because my son does not behave or obey. Still he was more careful when I was around, but I started to receive many texts from my son when I am not home and when my son is home alone with my BF. Apparently he curses and calls him names for just having a bag of chips in the den. Yes, I told my son not to eat there next to computers but it is after all my house and my BF was not paying a penny towards it. He never cleans the house either, so what does he care?

My son has told me that if I ever marry him, he would go live with his dad and would never see me again. My son can be annoying at times, yes, I see that, but that's true with any kids. Teenagers are horrible. Still, there is absolutely no reason my BF needed to yell at him every second. But my son begged me to not say anything to BF because he was afraid that BF will hurt him for reporting to me. One day my son cut the grass (which by the way my BF was supposed to do, but whatever errands I ask him to do, such as cleaning up, mowing the lawn, taking care of the weed, or doing dishes while I am at work and he is home, he made my son do them instead), and lost a piece of screw that was holding the lawnmower's handle together. This was the second time. But again, this is my lawnmower, BF did not pay for it. Soon as he came home and realized that the screw was missing again, he yelled at my son and said "you are dumb as a rock!".

I finally told him to pack up and leave. That was 2 months ago. Since he didn't want to leave I am sure largely because it is convenient for him - cooking, cleaning and laundry get done by me, and it is closer to his work too. He claimed that the reason he didn't move out was because he loved me.

I became so bitter and resentful, finally we broker up this weekend. He was so upset that he took stuff he bought for my birthday and even some small things he bought for my dog. He does not even have a dog, so there is no use - clearly he just wanted to punish me for breaking up.

I was very upset too, but that in a way helped me in the split up. Perhaps because I told him that he just killed whatever that was left and made this process easier, which might have made him think there is still chance that I change my mind... he texted and called a couple of times to apologize for his behavior.

He came by yesterday to pick up items he forgot. He said he loves me and was very close to buying me a ring last Christmas. We did go see a ring together around Christmas time, but he has told me that he would need to get a raise before he could afford it. So not sure if his statement was entirely true.

He asked how "we" can fix the problem. When I told him that I would never again want to live with anyone without being married, but my son opposes strongly against our marriage and if we ever gets married, I will never see my boy again.... his face dropped and said "so it really is over and there is no option then for us to work it out".

He later on sent me a long text thanking me for everything I did and being always there for him when he went through rough times of having some legal issues, losing his mother, sister-in-law, and changing jobs. He apparently talked to his friend (older lady who is his neighbor and we used to hang out often and I have told her about my issues with him and how he treated my son), and she has told him that the problem with my son has not just started recently, but it has been going on for a quite some time. He said he had realized that we do not have an option of working it out. Said it has been a very hard day for him, but he was glad we could talk yesterday morning. He will always have fond memories of us. He did truly love me. Those are what he said. Which of course makes things harder for me. When I believed he was a jerk, it was easier to make up my mind.

I know breaking up with him and protecting my son is the right decision. But I miss him too. Only if he can be nice to my son, then things will be fine, but knowing that it never happened for the past 5 years, I know I am kidding myself. I think I am trying to cling onto this unhealthy relationship out of fear. Just having one child (my BF has never been married and he does not have any kids) is this difficult - I can't imagine in the future if I date someone with kids how much more difficult it will be.

I know I sound pathetic, because anyone who reads my post will say "this is not the right person". But I do not know how to deal with my fear. My son is I am sure relieved that BF is gone, yet he did look a bit surprised when he actually saw BF leaving. When I asked if he was happy that BF is gone, he said kind of, but did not look all that excited either. Also when BF was not mean, my son was still ok with him, and as recent as June, he was asking when we could go on boating (BF owns boats), so I cannot help but to think this endless "only if he learns to be nice towards my son...", even though I know it's not realistic. I am a mess. Please help.

This is not a healthy relationship at all.

Dr Harley says that dating is an interview for marriage. Let's take a look at your BF's resume here:

-has a 'nasty mean attitude' toward your son
-has a 'negative personality in general towards every aspect of life'
-is a taker
-is happy to freeload off you, living in your house without paying any bills
-constantly 'nags, yells at, calls names, and ridicules' your son
-would 'not allow' your 10 year old son to hold your hand
-would not take the olive branch your son extended to him and spend time with him
-your son (UNDERSTANDABLY) dislikes and disapproves of him (because he is being abused by your BF)
-curses and calls your son names when you are not home to monitor
-told your son he is 'dumb as a rock'
-took things just to hurt you when you (rightfully) broke up with him

Now, what about this resume makes you think he is the man for the job???

You did the right thing kicking him out. I recommend you end all contact with your BF for good. Do not see or speak to him for any reason. It will be hard for the first week or two, but then you will feel so much better and probably wonder why you were with such a man in the first place.

No, teenagers are NOT horrible. I have two. Yes they get a little sassy at times and we work through it, but they are sweet loving kids. I would not allow a free loading boyfriend abuse them in front of me for a million dollars.

You have a choice to stop this right now.

Thanks unwritten. Your bullet points are so loud and clear as to how BF is not a good fit as a husband and step-father.

I need to stay strong for this initial few weeks. My pattern in the past was that I always ended up missing him (or missing having someone next to me) despite all of these red flags and the history, and when he contacted me, apologized, or said that he wanted to 'fix' the problems, I gave in and went back with him.

I am terrified of further destroying my son's emotional health as well as self-esteem. I know I need to keep this guy away from my son. I am also terrified that in the future my son will not come visit me if I stay with BF. Yet equally I am terrified of my son leaving off to college in only 3 years, leaving me home all alone without BF.

I will not pretend that I have the biggest problem - I have gone through the heartbreaking divorce when my son was only 2, and I survived. I did have some other relationships afterwards, one long and good one in particular, yet I needed to end that one also after 5 years because I did not think we were going anywhere. That xBF was a great person, very loving towards my son, but he got cold feet when we talked about marriage and I did not want to just keep dating without the mutually agreed goal and needed to end it. That was hard too, because he was a nice guy and my son loved him.

Then this BF - already by the first 3 months he began talking about marriage, which made me feel better. Yet he never opened up towards my son and my son never developed love or respect towards him as a result.

Why is it so hard to find a right person who is also on the same page as I am? This thought discourages me so much. But I know that just because BF talked about marriage all the time (but when I think about it, he had 5 years and did not actually propose so he might have just said whatever he thought I wanted to hear to keep me around), that does not make the relationship right for me. Given that my son will only have a few years left before college, my head tells me not even bother dating anyone for a while, but I know that my heart will miss having companionship so much and I may not be able to bear the loneliness of being alone.

My head is also telling me that IF there is any chance left at all for us, BF needs to open up towards my son and learns to love and respect him as someone who is the most important figure in my life. IF that is even possible, the only way that may happen is for me to stay strong, since if I keep running back to him or allowing him to return JUST BECAUSE I cannot bear this heartache after the breakup, it comes too easy and he will NOT make any serious efforts to truly improve the situation. If I stay strong, I have two options - moving forward and having a better relationship in the future with someone else, or BF making drastic changes and earning back my and my son's trust. If we keep getting back together easily without going through the hard time, I cannot obtain neither option. I know that in my head. I just need to stay strong to be able to execute the plan.

Have you read Dr. Harley's Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders? Start with this Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Brain, thanks for the suggestion. I just read the definitions. It's sad to see that my BF of 5 years may not have even be a renter!

He wanted to make me feel good by complimenting or being romantic, but that was all words and there were no actions in large part. He never really did anything that required efforts, such as fixing his annoying habits (I always asked him to shower every day which he refuses, controlling his angers, being nice to his own family members, trying to not be so negative all the time, etc.), paying rent or sharing some of my bills, spending fun time with my son to build bond, sharing some of my house choirs, etc. He constantly talked about marriage yet he never took any actions. He said he would help me paint my house 5 years ago and he never did. He said he would fix this and that�.., and surprise, surprise, he only did some of them when we began dating but stopped doing so after 2 years or so.

The saddest thing is that I allowed him to remain a freeloader, because I avoided confrontation. I am not good at sharing my frustration and hate talking about money issues so I just kept quiet. Also I am not good at remaining firm - if/when he showed some remorse (but just with words and not without actions), I felt bad and sorry for him and took him back.

I do realize that I can only control myself, and these are the traits that contributed to the situation. Had I been much more firm and consistent, either I broke up with him much sooner, minimizing the damage, or he would have moved up to at least a renter long time ago.

Have you read all of the articles in here? Preparing for Marriage

Good morning and thanks for the link Brain. I feel heavy in my stomach reading all of his articles. Certainly many key points he talks about apply to our situation. I think my situation might have been a combination of two main bad attributes of living together before marriage.

One, clearly my BF lost his incentive to propose because all his needs were met without the marriage (home cooking, companionship, sex, laundry and cleaning get done by me yet he did not have to support me financially since we are not married). He was free to leave any time, this is why especially at the beginning whenever he gets angry, he just packed and left. There was no hard commitment to make it work.

Two, this may sound contradicting to the above, but he must have felt that I would never leave him even though we were not married. This may be because we have been together for so long, and despite his attitude towards my son and all other negative traits, I had repeatedly allowed him back (because I was operating more like we were married and I wanted to find solution to make it work).

So he was already married, so to speak, without any hard work or commitment, it is no wonder he never tried to change his behavior. If he had to financially support me, for example, he might have had more incentive to help out on the house chores and keeping up on the yard work because that is also a part of his assets. If we were married, he could not just pack and leave so he would have thought twice before packing up and leave without putting in serious efforts to work out the issues.

One thing I advise my kids about how to find a mate, is to find someone who is willing to take action. There are a lot of people out there who have great intentions but have not yet discovered Dr Harley's principles, and therefore they do a lot of things wrong. Everyone came here initially because they were doing things wrong! The ones who are in happy recovered marriages now are there because they were willing to take action. However, we have posters here often who are dealing with a lazy spouse who is not willing to take action or make the necessary changes to have a great relationship. Those are the relationships that FAIL.

From the way you describe your bf, he most definitely sounds like the latter

Are you planning to be done with him for good? Do you have any continued contact with him? If so I would highly recommend ending ALL contact with him.

I would stick around here and learn about how good relationships work, and the ways that you may be contributing to finding poor partners and creating poor relationships. This will help you as you move forward in the dating field.

I have been trying to validate my decision by going over my list in my head every day. I guess you can say that while my head tells me to accept the reality, cut the loss, and move forward, my heart is still clinging to this unrealistic idea of BF turning around saying that he would like to make it work and is up for hard work.

Oh, and we did exchange text once on Tuesday when I got the medical result that he was asking about. He asked about some shoes he thinks he might have left at my house. I said I would look. I did find the pair but have not texted back and he has not attempted to contact me either.

Not that I think it should matter after the way he has treated your son, but what you are saying is that he has made pretty much zero effort to win you back...

What about this situation makes you think that he will ever turn around? He did not try to change things for 5 years, and he is not trying to change things now even though you have already kicked him out.

I guess the real question here is, why do you not feel you deserve more than a lazy freeloader?

I don't know unwritten. I would have asked the same if this was my friend. I am not good at dealing with fear of unknown. I am also terrible at dealing with loneliness. One thing I know for sure is that if we are just going back to the way we were, I would not be happy. My son will not be happy.

The scenario I have in my head that I wish would happen is that he will reach out to my son, apologize how he has treated my son in the past, make an honest attempt to build a loving bond, and try to earn my trust back. Without living in my house. But it's most likely very wishful thinking on my part.

Actually, after two years into our dating, he was exchanging inappropriate texts with a young co-worker (she was drunk and sent him sex tests and he responded - he basically went with them). I kicked him out, and the similar thing happened back then as well. He apologized the very next morning, sent me long texts, said he would not expect that I would forgive him and he wished me the best...

I do not remember exactly how this happened, but we began communicating through texts after a while and he asked me to give him a list of "to do" to prove he can be trustworthy. At that time one of the conditions I gave him was to not come by when my son is with me. He accepted that. We dated like that for 6 months or so. He stayed at my place only those weekends I did not have my son. My son was hoping I would get back with my old boyfriend who really loved my son, so was disappointed when my BF returned after 6 months. Even though my son did not explicitly expressed this, through his attitude it was clear he did not like BF. That is when I told BF about his mean attitude towards my son for the first time. BF said it's because he was gone for so long that my son 'got used to' getting his way and thus he is not happy that someone who will not let him do whatever he wants is now back home again.

The reason I broke up with him at that time was different, and thus what I requested him for improvement was different. But if he was trying to earn me back, should he have also tried to earn my son's love and respect? Not sure I am being too demanding.

Probably it really does not matter. Realistically, do I think he would say he would try to improve the situation to make things work? Yes. Would he actually make some efforts? Some, yes. Can he really learn to control his temper? No. Will he ever love my son? Sadly, probably not. Would he accept to live separately while we try to work through the issues? Initially, yes. Do I think after a while though he will feel like he is the victim and feel unhappy because he cannot live with me? Yes.

The only solution to that is marriage, however my son will not approve it, unless something changes drastically. Do I think BF is capable of making such drastic positive changes without living together just so that we can get married? Ah, realistically, NO.

Candy,

I also have a 15 year old son and divorced when he was 2. I dated several men who, looking back, all have warts. Two were hypercritical of my son, one was a colossal user. Notably, the colossal user's best friend and best friend's wife, with whom I have remained friends, both told me they couldn't believe that colossal user landed someone like me because they knew him well and saw him for the loser he is. Yet, at the time of the various break ups with each of these guys, I thought my world was ending. I found a wonderful resource that really set me straight. I hope what I am about to post does not violate MB's guidelines....Google baggage reclaim. It is a VERY sound, VERY blunt, VERY in your face blog about dealing with guys like this. Her street-smart advice is very much in line with the veteran posters here on MB and Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders (she calls the latter two "Mr. Unavailables") . After some very challenging "self work", I met my husband. He is everything I could ever dream of, but not someone I would have even given the time of day to before doing the "self work". I can now look back and see that I was unconsciously attracted to Mr Unavailables who were not good for me - or my son. My husband and my son have a phenomenal relationship and I have the same with his children and grandchildren. He is a great partner who carries his share of the relationship.

Don't "settle" simply because you're afraid of being alone - there are a lot worse things and your XBF is one of those worse things. You and your son are worthy of a man who will treat you both as the most important things in his life by demonstrating so in how he speaks to each of you and his commitment to his relationship with each of you - both in word and deed.

By the way, you stated that XBF was talking about marriage within three months of starting dating. One thing I learned from my various experiences and spending time at baggage reclaim is that a guy who fast-forwards a relationship in such a short time does so for a reason - he knows (either consciously or subconsciously) that if you get to know the "real" him before you are completely enmeshed and "in love" with him, you will break up with him. What do you know about your XBF's previous relationships? My bet would be he talks negatively about most, if not all, of the women he's been in a relationship with or has never been in a long-term relationship. The reason being, the "real" him drove them away. This guy is defective. He's not going to change. At best, he might hide his "real" self until you're enmeshed again. You deserve better. Your son deserves better. AND, most importantly, is being in a relationship with him just to soothe your fear of being alone REALLY worth losing your son over? I can tell you that, for me, the answer to that question is VERY easy - NO, it is NOT worth it!

Candy Crush, I was 15 years old when I moved in with my father and his wife and their 2 babies. My stepmother was verbally and emotionally abusive to me while he was working nights. If I chattered, she would pounce on some remark and declare me an "idiot". She would go on at length disparaging my character, my relationships with my mother and sister, and I would sit silently watching her. Next, because I was sitting silent, I was "sulking". That was good for another 5 minutes of abuse. I got up early to take care of the crying babies,change their diapers, give them bottles. It was never good enough.
This situation lasted for 5 months. My father never stood up for me and I never told him about the long tirades. He saw some of it when he was in the house, but other than huffing his breath outward and rolling his eyes, let it go on. I thought it was something I had to put up with. Every Monday I dreamed about how to kill myself quickly and painlessly in the bathtub to escape. That was because on Fridays I might be able to leave the house for a visit with my family.
You have let BF abuse your son for years. WTF!

Brits, thanks for sharing your story that I can so relate to. My BF�s sister (who is very nice and normal... the rest of his siblings are just as broken as he is) and her husband repeatedly asked me to marry BF since they like how BF has changed (for better) since we began dating. They told me that they had never seen BF being happy and positive (again, for me, he was still never positive, so I cannot imagine how negative he was prior!), and it's all because of me. She even told me to NOT let BF run over and control me.

BF was already very irritated by my then-10-year-old son after we began dating to the point he was going to end our relationship. He then asked for advice from his mentor who is a much older, experienced, wise, and generous person. The mentor told BF "if she is THAT nice as you describe, then man up and make it work!".

So initially BF was apparently suppressing his anger, I suppose.... to me and my son, however, there was plenty anger outburst in the household. What I hated the most is how he ridiculed my son constantly and made hurtful comments almost intentionally. Perhaps to gain some control over him..., and ultimately over me as well.

I read Baggage Reclaim. So powerful. Is sounds as if she is talking about my BF. He IS a control freak. He needs to control my son over every single move. He was controlling me too in a different way. While he was not contributing financially, he made me purchase dishwasher and TV HE wanted. When I said I liked other models, he got mad and walked away. So I ended up purchasing the most expensive dishwasher he liked. Even though he does not do dishes. He tried to control how I raise my son. He always said I was �too soft� and spoiling my son. When his friends warned him to stop being so negative and mean towards my son, he just brushed off such comments and said my son is the cause of all the problems and IF my son behaves, then BF would be nice. One of his friends even challenged him saying that I would leave him if he continues with this attitude, and he better stop mistreating my son. None worked. He always did what he wanted. The only time he somewhat became careful is when that person in the matter is financially or physically helping / benefiting BF and thus BF could not risk losing such free-bees by pissing them off. Sadly, I guess I fall into that category as well. Because I was providing the house and married lifestyle without any commitment and price, he did not want to piss me off too much. Even with that intention, BF never tried to warm up toward my son. He claimed he is looking after my son�s best interest by not letting him get away with everything. But no, there was no love. His actions were not out of love. He did not care about my son. He simply could not control his angery outburst. And he just wanted to control my son.

All these stats, observations, others� experiences as well as my own experiences say that I did the right thing. It is my weakness that I need to deal with. And I need to stop escaping into a fantasy that HE will change magically.

Brits, you are spot on. BF never had any long-term relationships. 5 years with me is the record, he says. I had told him that is because "I had put up with him", and he did not deny that.

He was once engaged, but his xfiancee was deciding on wedding details which apparently he did not like, and he called off the engagement right before the wedding.

Bellevue, this made me cry. I am so sorry to hear this and my heart aches as if this is coming from my son. And thank you for making me face the ugly reality that I, who loves my son more than anyone and should protect him at all cost, failed to do so, JUST BECAUSE I was not brave enough to face the reality and kept procrastinating to make that decision. I pretended to believe that maybe BF and son will become friends over time, because that is what I wanted to believe..., then I did not have to make the hard decision.

Can I ask what happened to you after 5 months? Did your stepmother move out or did you move out? Do you still talk to your father?

What matters now is you can see clearly where your energy and priorities belong. Your son matters above your own loneliness and wanting to have a partner. In three years things will be different, once he is away at college. You've already started on the right path.

After 5 months, I moved back into my mother's house. My sister was guilted into visiting my father on a Saturday. I phoned the house to talk to my sis, and she was evasive on the phone with me. Stepmother became furious believing that I and my friends were plotting against her and badmouthing her. She flew into a rage, physically attacked sis, kicking her on the floor, pulling her up by the hair, digging into her breasts, throat, buttocks with her long nails, cursing her. Sis escaped through the door and ran barefoot down the street, hid behind a box hedge until she could knock on a strangers door asking to use the phone.
She phoned me to come rescue her. Boyfriend and I drove to stranger's house, she scrambled out low to the ground, hopped into the car. Dad didn't know I had a boyfriend or that he had a car. My father was driving around searching for sis. She was afraid he would drag her back to the house and join in the abuse. We knew he never stood up for us or protected us; it was always all for his wife.

We went to court to testify to have my father's parental rights terminated. We didn't speak to him for decades after that. He never saw our children. Our relationship never repaired. He is dead.

Stepmother's parents were both in the house watching the beatdown. Her dad tsk tsk'ed. Her mom repeated "Now, Joan. Now Joan." Neither lifted a finger.
You have a second chance with your son. Make the best of it. G-d bless.

Belle, thank you for sharing your painful past. I am sorry if I opened up your wound by asking to share your story. It hurts so much to just picture two young girls needing to escape from their own father's house for safety. I am speechless, sad, and also very angry at myself how I might have also caused so much pain, anger, and hopelessness in my young son's life. Your story slapped me in the face and woke me up.

I always considered myself a very loving and protective mother, as being perceived as such by others. But the truth is, I am weak. Perhaps all parents who have acted similar to I have been are weak. I want to believe no parents in the right mind would intentionally hurt their own children, however when you do not know how to deal with fear, you pretend that everything is fine because you cannot move. You hope that things get better. You see some occasional normality or peace, and convince yourself things are fine. Not a good excuse at all, but that is it.

I have blamed my xBF for not making efforts to improve his relationship with my son and also to try to be a better person by controlling his anger and developing some empathy. But I realized that I have not made efforts to be stronger to stand up for my son and myself either. I CHOSE to ignore some of the screaming red flags early on, because I was desperately needing a relationship that leads to a permanent commitment after all the heartaches I had gone through, and xBF's constant talk about marriage completely immobilized me.

I do not understand where my insecurity largely comes from. Why am I so afraid? I moved to this country to be with my xH, who ended up betraying me several times and eventually left me and our son. That was the hardest thing I ever dealt with. I wanted to end my life but needed to be strong for my then-2-year-old. I do not have any family in this country. Just going to a store to pick up some milk was a huge task since I had to do everything all by myself with a toddler. I remember the first Fourth of July after my xH left - we were going to see fireworks with several family friends. All the kids fell asleep and their dads carried them to their cars. My boy did not have a big daddy who could carry him. I felt so sad for him. I carried the heavy dead weight all the way to the parking, vowing that I would be his dad too. And that's what I ended up doing. My xH pays child support but that is about it. I never asked for anything else. Childcare cost, every day pickups and dropoffs, medical insurance, signing him up for extra curricular activities, paying for those classes, taking him to places... I did all that alone. That was my pride and also I did not want to feel like my xH had power over me, and I did not want to be financially and physically dependent on him.

I thought surviving all that made me stronger. I think I am, but still each ending of relationships hurts so much. I still panic.
I still cling. Maybe because I feel like each time I am being sentenced that I would not be happy ever again. Probably not so much that I am moaning the loss of the partner himself, but the loss of my dream. And the dream is fabricated, since my xBF could not have made my dream come true even if he stayed.

Yes, my son gave me a second chance. I have to stay strong not to mess this up. I need to focus what is really important in my life, and not get fogged by the rosy fake image I had in my head.

You're free of BF and need to stay that way. He abused both you and your son. Abusers don't change. They try to convince you that what they do is your fault. They promise to be better and never repeat their past actions. They offer to go to counseling with you. That's only to get their foot back into the door. What you went through got you a diploma in Saying No.
Even if he never laid a hand on either of you, he abused you. You are so lucky he left.
Telling you what happened when I was 15 wasn't painful. It was long ago. Don't apologize for it. Coincidence: Your son is 15.

I think you need to ask yourself what you are afraid of. If the answer is being alone, short from a *body* around you have been 'alone.' You're BF admittedly did not pay bills or help around the house or help with your son. He actually added MORE work and drama and stress due to his negative behavior and conflict. Your life should be easier and less stressful now, not the other way around.

I would encourage you to stick around here, read everything you can about DR Harley's principles and learn how to set your bar HIGH. Do not date again until you can do this. You seem to be in the habit of accepting crumbs from a man, you are just going to end up in another bad relationship if you continue that.

Yes, it is. I feel that your experience at 15 returned to help my 15-year-old. Thanks Belle.

Definitely. More work, drama, and stress - too high a price to pay for just having a warm body next to me.

I am going to post a list of 'red flags' I discovered shortly after I started dating BF, which I ultimately ignored, which put me in current situation. This is going to remind me how naive (or rather stupid) and arrogant I was, as I thought that I was special enough that the normal rule did not apply to me and I could have magically escaped what normally would happen to other people as a result of dating someone with this many red flags. Sadly, I could not use the term "I was young or inexperienced" either. Geez. Hopefully, this list also helps others, if they are looking for validation to move away from toxic relationships.

(1). We met online, and were texting and calling each other for about a month before we finally met in person. In one of the early 'calls', perhaps this was only the second or third time we spoke on the phone - I was out at the restaurant with my son when he called. We talked for a while, then I realized that my battery was getting very low, so I warned him that I may lose him shortly, and if so, to have a good night. He said that is not a problem. So we continued to talk for a few more minutes, and then the battery was out. Since I already warned him what was happening, and also I told him that we were at the restaurant, I just assumed we would talk again the following day (it was already late in the evening). Next day when I called, he was angry. He interrogated me by saying "how come you never called me back last night? I was waiting to hear from you again!". Even though I did not feel I did anything wrong, I apologized.

(2). On our second or third date at a restaurant, I noticed he has a scar on his hand. I asked him about it, and he hesitated to answer by saying "well, we don't know each other well enough yet for me to tell you". In the end he confessed: when he was younger, he was travelling with his buddies by car. They were all drunk. Because they were drunk, the window was open but it was at night and cold. So BF asked the driver to close the window but the driver didn't (since he was so drunk and sick). BF then hit the driver with his fist shouting "CLOSE THE WINDOW DAMMIT!!" from behind. It was so hard that he broke his hand and had to have surgery. The scar was from the operation.

(3). We were at BF's mother's house. She claimed her AC was not working properly and wanted BF to take a look at it. BF asked what was wrong, and while his elderly mother was trying to explain, BF got really short and yelled at her "THAT DOES NOT TELL ME ANYTHING, I NEED YOU TO TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG MOM!". And he stormed out the room. I did not like what I saw, and said that I felt bad for his mother after we left the house. I said she still cooks for BF and cleans his clothes for free (sounds familiar - yes, just like I was doing for him after he moved in with me), and she is old, your yelling at her scared me, and I did not like what I saw. He apologized to me, and said I had a good point, and he would call up his mother to apologize. I said OK. A few weeks later, I had asked him about the incident, and found out that BF never apologized to his mother.

(4). He was remodeling his house and doing most work himself. He has this agreement with his younger brother that if brother helps him, he will let the brother park one of bro's boats (BF's house is on the water). It is a huge project, since they knocked down the house and basically rebuilt the whole thing. It has been 7 or 8 years, and the house is still not complete. Clearly both brothers are losing drive to finish this off. That is true for BF himself. After all, it is his house. Yet each time he sees his brother on weekends when he was off, he would yell at his brother "you are off today, why aren't you working at my house!" It is ok for BF to be having a date with me, but his brother was supposed to work (on his days off) on BF's house. By the way, the brother still to this date has not parked his boat at BF's house YET.

(5). He always condemns people who text and drive. Clearly that is dangerous, but BF does it himself. When I pointed out, he said "but I still can drive well, they can't".

(6). He was helping his friend's business and getting paid. Specifically, he was helping in the IT area. But because BF has his own day job, the time he could come and help out his friend was limited. Several weeks passed, and the friend obviously needed his system fixed, so ended up hiring someone else to fix the issues. BF was furious (because he lost the opportunity to make extra money). He said "I want to end this friendship, but he actually holds my loan (his friend offers more attractive loan when BF purchased his house, since BF could not afford a loan from his bank), and I need him to keep lending me money, so I will shut up, but once I refinance my loan, I am done with him. It sounded so calculating and cold and selfish. I pointed that out, but BF did not seem to understand.

(7). He always hang out with people who offer free food and drinks. When he borrows a truck to tow his boat, he did not even bother cleaning and filling up the tank before returning it to the owner. Whenever I suggested that he should probably also invite people for dinner in return, he said "that's ok, they have money" or "that's ok, they don't mind", or "they like having me over".

(8). He never had any long-term relationships.

(9). He loves young girls and flirts right in front of me. He even tried to get their attention by lying and making me look bad (he made up a story that made me look bad and made HIM look good in the eye of the young girl).

(10). He just does not have any empathy. No ability to feel bad for those who are socially or economically weaker.

(11). He makes racial comments and pretends he is joking.

(12). Due to his angry outburst, one of the coworkers sued him. He did not feel remorse but decided that it was HER fault and hated her for putting him through hell.

I can go on.... but the list makes me sick to the stomach. Boy was I stupid or blind or what.

Be so thankful that you finally got out and didn't marry him and didn't have children with him. You are going to keep healing the longer you stay NC with him. Be proud of yourself for doing the right thing by you and your son.

Thanks Brain. Every time I get nervous about raising my son (for dealing with his teenager attitude day in and day out) and every time I hear others commenting that you need to discipline your kids, I tend to second guess my decision to end my relationship with BF, because he was a firm believer of disciplining my son, and he always claimed that I have made my son to behave that way (not listening to me right away or cleaning after himself, etc.), since he always gets what he wants.

I guess I cannot be very confident about my child raising ability. He has always been a very sweet kid, and thus in the past I was fairly confident with my style. But that has changed quite drastically in recent months (naturally so as he is a teenager now, sigh), and I often times do not know what to do. Do I get strict with him like my xBF did? Then why did I kick him out if I am agreeing to his approach? Or should I continue to be soft? Am I making a mistake? These questions circle around my head, and I get very confused.

Dr Harley has some very different ideas about raising teenagers. I am not the best to quote them, but they are more of a hands off approach, as strict discipline almost always leads to conflict with a teen (I can attest to this).

I don't know why your questions about parenting have anything to do with your free loading ex bf though. He really did not have many redeeming qualities as a bf at all, so whether his parenting style was right or not is irrelevant. For the record, what he did was not 'discipline,' it was abuse. I have two teens that I give structure to, and I don't have to resort to name calling or mental abuse to do so. Strict discipline does not equate to abuse...

This is new to me. I did not know he also provides guidance on child raising. I will read up more on this. Yes, I agree that when the tension is not there, we have less conflict in the household. At the same time, my son does push the envelope to the point where I get upset since I have to repeat myself several times.

Very fair point unwritten. I know why I keep going through this vicious cycle though. It's due to my insecurity. When I feel like I am failing to raise my son to be a person I would want him to be, I remember how strict xBF was and he would never change his positions. He was firm, strict, and yes, verbally abusive, and my son, out of fear, listened to him. Even though I never agreed to xBF's approach, when I see the different outcomes, I sometimes wondered if I should have been less accommodating. Unlike school work or career where you are given grades or reviews (and you can assure you are doing a good job), child raising seems like an endless task without any validation. And even if you use the same approach that worked yesterday, it may not work today. I am very insecure how I am doing in this field. Perhaps because I do not have any family members in this country with whom I can visit and vent, or get occasional help, and also my xH is not very involved in raising our son (he left pretty much all to me and he only plays games with our son on his weekends with SON). I feel very alone facing this huge task. I often get overwhelmed. That is part of my fear of being alone (even though BF did not help in any positive ways).

That said, I agree wholeheartedly that strict discipline does not equate abuse and there is absolutely no need for name calling, ear or nipple pinching, or mental abuse. xBH often joked by saying how excited he was about the upcoming weekend because that's when my son goes off to his dad's. When he is coming home, xBH would say "oh, I was hoping that you would be gone longer". Even though he might have thought he was joking, it really hurt me and I asked him to stop each time.

Sorry if I missed this, but what happened to your son's father?

He remarried. He spends every other weekend with our son. He loves our son, that I do not question, but unfortunately he has not really done much heavy lifting. He moved to about an hour away, so he does not pick up our son on weekdays. Thus, whenever he is with our boy, it's always either weekends or holidays, and ultimately he did not give our son any structures because they are always together when there is no school.

Having a hard time sticking to NC... Grrrr. It's like addiction. I must be crazy!

You didn't contact him did you?

Nope. But it's been very hard. I'm missing having someone who tells me he loves me and hugs me tight.

Your bar is set sooo soooo low

I remember mentioning Dolly Parton's lyrics "I just want to be somebody's everything" to friend who was single at the time. He replied: "I just want to be anybody's something".

What do you want?

Thanks unwritten and goody2shoes for trying to instill some sense to me. I know I am being quite pathetic. I did manage to keep myself busy last night and dodge my urge to text xBF.

The trigger yesterday was a talk with my GF, who is also a single mother and has also been in the on and off relationship for..., well much longer than I have been. The difference is that she and her BF have issues that are between them (her emotional needs not being met by BF, despite numerous talks and attending counselling sessions for years), and do not involve their kids (they both have kids). Perhaps that's because they do not live together. So kids were never really a big part of their relationship to begin with.

Last fall she told me she is DONE with this man who is emotionally unavailable for good. We both became quite busy since then, and we have not really talked for a meaningful time since then. Yesterday we had some time to catch up and she said she has been back with BF for quite some time. Somehow, that lowered my already almost non-existence bar. It as if gave me an excuse to contact xBF, since apparently others are also doing the same, which almost proves that there are no �perfect� solutions to the universal relationship issues.

I decided to read up more of MB postings. I actually tried this to certain extent when I was going through divorce, however was not able to save my marriage. I tend to think that a result is the ultimate measurement of success, and even if the process following MB principle helps BS heals, if the marriage or relationship could not be saved, then what's the point. But I realized that last night reading so many posters� stories�, sometimes, no matter what you do, it is what it is. Just like you still can get sick even if you maintain ideal weight, exercise regularly, never smoke and eat healthy. However following such plans certainly reduces the chance of getting seriously sick in the future. If you are already sick, implementing the health plans may not cure you completely but still can help. So I should not focus solely on whether each poster�s relationship recovered as a result of following Plan A and B.

What you all have been telling me now is, (1) my xBF and I are not married, so Plan A/B do not necessarily apply since we have an option to walk away, and if xBF does not offer some of the key attributes to successful relationship/marriage, then I should not keep trying to change him but to accept that he is not the right candidate; (2) implementing NC is not to make xBF change, but to help heal myself sooner. The sooner I heal, I can get back on my feet and will not �cling� onto an unhealthy relationship. And hopefully I will apply the learned lesson to next time and will not fall for someone who is not a good marriage material.

Someone said this in response to other posters, but I am clearly letting my emotions dictate my actions or decision making rather than using my head and following a concrete plan. Even though I clearly see how he is not right for me and my son, my overwhelming emotion of missing to have someone creeps up from time to time to convince me (like yesterday, using my GF�s case as an example) that no one is perfect and thus I should listen to my emotions to end the suffering.

I hope I can get there. Trying... each day.

To prevent you from texting him when you are tempted, why don't you start with deleting his number from your phone?

There's no ice-cream in my fridge for a reason. And I don't have any chocolate in my house.

By the way, this man used you for cheap residence and free sex and only paid you with empty words ("I love you"), while verbally abusing your son. What exactly do you miss about him?

You are right goody2shoes. I don't have courage right now to delete his number. So essentially I am keeping chocolate in my pantry, and I know exactly where it is, but am pretending it is the same as NOT having chocolate at all in my house.

I thought about it too. None I dated prior to xBF was this bad - at least they tried to be fair and none was abusive to my son. As I get older, I had believed subconsciously that my worth declines and I needed to settle.

When will you be deleting all his contact information?

I was thinking about that this morning. Guess there is no perfect time for it, isn't it. The reason I am hesitant to delete his number is because I promised I would return his shoes and he was supposed to let me know how and when we will do so. But I realized that, if we arrange something so that we can exchange (he might have something he needs to return to me as well) our stuff, that can lead to something else, and there may never be this perfect timing to completely delete his contact info from my phone.

Today I went to meet with my realtor since I'm in a process of buying a condo and I had to be at the property for home inspection. My agent is xBF's friend. Over time we became friends, and I began my search last year so I have been using him as my realtor. He invited both of us for a party last weekend, which I did not go for the obvious reason. I apologized for not showing up and told him that xBF and I broke up. He said he heard it from xBF, and said that xBF was very upset/depressed about the breakup. I probably did not need to, but explained to him the background (I had shared some of my complaints with him before but never provided much details). He said it sounds like xBF is his X (he was married happily with 3 kids but his wife passed away, then he remarried - which did not last too long apparently because his new wife was BXXXX, per xBH). After his second marriage ended, he began dating his current GF. When I met him 5 years ago, he was already with her so she is the only person I know in person. She is a wonderful lady.

He said his kids hated her (his 2nd wife), and thanked him when they got divorced. Now his kids (they are adults) are very close to his GF. He said my xBF needs to date someone without kids or someone with much older, grown kids who do not live with their mother.

I just do not get WHY xBF cannot be warm and nice toward my son, if the breakup was THAT devastating to him. I was not asking him to fly. Or was I???

Anyway, I will need to get the strength to delete his number soon.

As I get older I realize that time is precious and I do not want to waste a single minute of it with people who have a negative impact on my life.

Life is short. You are wasting it on an abusive freeloader.

You don't need courage, you just need to move one finger. Even if you don't want to protect yourself, please do it to protect your son.

"I cannot delete his phone number because [bla]".

Ditch the phone number, ditch the shoes. Be the mother your son needs.

Delete his number and all his contact information now and start healing and caring for your son. If you don't do it today you will keep making excuses to not do it. Do it today!! Is he on social media? You need to block all avenues of contact and make a promise to yourself that you deserve better.

Thank you goody and Brain Hurts for your encouragement. I have such an awesome team of cheerleaders!!

I will delete his number. He does not have any social media accounts, so only contact I need to delete is his phone number.

This evening my realtor's GF messaged me. She said xBF is hurting and said he loves me. But clearly his 'love' was not strong enough to make actions to make amend.

Somehow I missed this. Thanks unwritten. Yes, I had some scary medical issue last summer, which made me realize that I cannot take time for granted. I do want to be happy and live the rest of my life with much less stress.

I deleted his number. One step forward.

Good job. Do you have any pampering scheduled for yourself?

Thanks Brain Hurts. No, I don't but probably should...

My emotions are still like a rolling coaster. I was fine last night and this morning, OK after deleting his number, but then after I got to work, I began remembering the conversation with my realtor's GF last night... and that really made my heart heavy.

I know I am delusional. As all of you have pointed out, it should be xBF who lost a lot not me. But sometimes I feel like suffocating because of his NC. He has told his friends he loves me, but he has not attempted to contact me. So basically he does not love me enough to do the hard work. Why is it so difficult for me to accept the reality?

It's hard to accept because you know you're worth the effort. I'm so grateful you got out of that mess. You're going to look back on this as the hugest gift, to be able to get you and your son out of that mess. How many people stay stuck there and waste their lives hoping for change that was never coming?

Stop talking to his friends. If someone begins to give you an update on him and his feelings, tell them you do not want to hear about him. If they continue, politely excuse yourself from the conversation.

We suggest no contact to people who are dealing with wayward spouses all the time. This is because the emotional impact from being in this toxic situation is huge. Although not quite to that level, the emotional impact of this man on you is huge, we can already see it in the fact that you do not feel worth more than this. No contact is the first step at getting this weight out of your life. This does not mean simply not talking to him. It also means, do not talk to other people about him, do not look at pictures of him, do not think about the good times (if there were any...). If you have access to him on social media, de friend him, unfollow him, block him, stay off social media. Out of sight out of mind is actually a thing!

I promise if you stay strong on these things you will be over him in no time.

Get busy so you don't have a bunch of free time to feel lonely. I suggest spending as much of it with your son as you can.

Thank you NewEveryDay and unwritten. I took my son for his new shoe shopping yesterday evening, which helped distract myself.

On the way back in the car, I was telling him to not stay up too late at night (he will go to his dad's house this weekend) so that he won't be sleeping till 1pm the next day, like he did during the summer break. To which he replied "I wasn't sleeping till 1 mom, I pretended because that's when xBF leaves the house". Often when I was working and xBF was off, he would stay till noon and went off to run errands. My son often texted me saying he was hungry but since xBF was still in the house son did not want to go downstairs, as xBF will say something that is negative. My son's short answer last night reminded me how I needed to save my son out of such uncomfortable and controlling situation.

Yes, it's still hard because as you NewEveryDay said, I keep wondering why xBF doesn't try to fix it if he truly loved me as he claims. And unwritten, ironically I may be afraid of that 'out of sight out of mind' will happen to xBF. Why? Perhaps because that will make me feel even lower. I have always been nice to him, have given him a lot, did not get much back from him, his sister begged me to marry him, he said he never had this long relationship and this is very special and that he loves me and we would marry. After all that, and xBF knows he was a jerk to my son, yet he can easily implement NC and soon it will be out of sight out of mind. I will feel so stupid and low. That thought kills me.

I know it feels different now but he put very little effort into and value on your relationship all those years you were together too. Dr. H talks about that, that one of the many reasons not to sacrifice in a marriage is that the other spouse devalues your contribution. The effort you made was valuable to oy and your life will improve as you put that effort of caretaking and financial responsibility towards yourself instead.

The only difference now is that you are being honest with yourself about it. Like me you will have to be very careful not to get into any more relationships where you are not valued with time, effort, and thoughtfulness.

Thank you NewEveryDay. Just found out another item he bought is missing, so he must have taken it with him when he left.

This is an ink cartridge for my printer which he cannot use at his place since he does not own the same model printer. He was printing his mortgage application, resumes, and all sorts of heavy documents and used up all of my ink. So when my son needed to print out something for his school work, we could not. I went out to get a cartridge but this is a color printer and expensive, and I felt resentful that after xBF used it up, he did not have the courtesy to replace it. After I replaced the cartridge, xBF began using it heavily, so I asked him to go get another cartridge. He called me 'cheap'. Go figure... Anyhow, he did end up buying another cartridge since he does use my printer very often. But that was a while ago, and as far as I am concerned, he continued to use my printer, almost on a weekly basis while neither my son or I were using it for the past several months (since my son was off from school). I don't mind that he uses my printer, but I could not believe that in his mind, if I made him buy the cartridge since he uses it, he thinks I am being cheap. He used up all my paper too, which I do not particularly mind since it's not expensive, but the point is, after using my resources all these years for free, he had a nerve to take the cartridge with him!!! Just like he took my dog's spray, which absolutely he has no use for.

I am so aggravated. And here I am, missing him and portraying him as if he was a saint. I am rewriting the history, just because I feel vulnerable. If he was such a nice, fair, and considerate guy, I would not have had the resentment and desire to break up with him for all these years to begin with.

Mind is a powerful thing - once I believe I 'need' him, I conveniently overlook his true personality, forget how harsh and mean he was toward my son, forget how often I felt that I do all the work and he did not do anything but just took advantage of my niceness, mask the fact he kept talking about marriage but never actually planned for it or proposed (in fact, he jokingly told me "I'll marry you today if you buy me a Ferrari"), and even began feeling I was wrong and I was mean to him to want to break up with him!

It is as if I have been brain washed to think that I need to do all the work to 'keep' a guy even if he does not do any of the hard work that is necessary for a successful and loving relationship.

I must become stronger to ditch such ideas. If I think through it and feel unreasonable, I have to have courage to be able to discuss that with my partner. When I talked to several friends, including xBF's friends, they were all surprised when they learned that the past 5 years he was not paying rent or sharing utility and other bills. They told me to "charge him!" but I could not. I did bring that up several times but he never said he would pay. He kind of just listened to what I was saying, but he never offered to pay or provided his rationale as to why he thinks he did not have to pay. And I could not persuade him.

He is a freeloader and never even moved to a renter. Have you read the book Buyers. Renters and Freeloaders yet?

BrainHurts, I read the definitions of them (not the book). Scary how my xBF was not even a renter. I mean, so many women here are fighting to make their partners to become buyers, while mine was not even a renter.... that's pretty sad.

I am sure xBF did not feel he was being a freeloader. I'm sure I was 'cheap' to not let him stay there for free without complaints. He stayed at his mom's house for free for years, and yet called his younger brother 'pathetic' for staying at their mom's house for free (his younger brother also owns a house but till the day she passed away, he stayed at his mom's place every day, eating the home cooked meal, his clothes being washed and ironed by his mama, while he did not buy any groceries or help pay bills). xBF said his younger brother should at least cut the grass for their mother for staying there for free. Yet when I asked xBF to do this for me, since he stays at my house for free, he thought it was my son's job...

So now I come to think of it, while xBF felt that my son was 'spoiled', he may have been the most spoiled kid. His mom for the longest time cooked for him, washed his clothes, and ironed them as well. He never once cleaned his room or the house for his mother. He never bought any groceries either. I remember early on, even when he was off and home all day long, and I came back from work, picking up my son, stopping by a store for groceries, and began cooking while still wearing my business suit, he was just sitting there, doing nothing... Did not help, did not help my son with the homework, nothing. Then after dinner, I get up and clean, but he would just sit there drinking. Then he had the nerve to ask me (like a little boy) to wash his clothes and iron them. I even asked him to take his business shirts to dry cleaner, but he did not want to pay for the dry cleaning and asked me to do this (for free, yeah).

I became his mother's replacement.

You don't have to convince us he is a freeloader and not marriage material, we already know I am glad to see you coming to your senses though.

Have you blocked all communication with him including social media? Are you checking on him at all?

Thanks unwritten. No, luckily xBF was never on any of the social media, so that's one thing that made this easier. I won't accidentally see his photos or anything.

Crazy as it sounds, I think I'm convincing myself that xBF was a freeloader. I want to stay mad so that I would not miss having him around. I don't have my son this weekend and it's a bit tough being alone. I just came back from dinner with my friend, which helped take my mind off a bit but still I was missing having xBF's big arms around me. Geez. I need to have my head checked out.

I spent 3 hours on the phone yesterday placing an pre-order of iPhone, and yet I discovered this morning it was never successfully placed...! Now I am on the phone with the customer service again. It's been over an hour again! Very irritating, but this is keeping me busy......

Went to church this morning. xBF and I used to go there together. I know he would not be there but my eyes were searching for him. I am so weak, and my bar does not even exit.

I have a confession to make. I did delete his number a few days ago. But when I typed up his name, his number still popped up (guess that's an iPhone thing??). ... and I texted him. I know I should not have. But I could not bear the thought he was done with me. And I had to face this hard reality. He did not respond.

OK, you guys will yell at me for failing NC. Sorry, I know you all are trying to help me and yet I broke down. I am disappointed at myself. But I did not want to lie to you about my setback.

I should not want to get back with him. I am beautifying our memories. He was never truly interested in marrying me or supporting me. He wanted me to support him, if anything. He said that once too, that maybe he should stay home and I go to work. He has also said in the past he is not interested in dating a woman with low income, because then he would have to support her financially. All of that point to the true freeloader mentality he has. Yet I was too weak and let my emotions control me, and broke NC.

I will need to stay strong now. Clearly he does not think I am worth the fight or work. He chose the breakup over hard work. Or he really thinks there is no way we can fix this as my son hates xBF so much, and wants to just maintain NC.

Whatever it is, I should not care and maintain NC. I need to stop thinking about him somehow.

He doesn't want to have to meet any standards or deal with your feelings and figures it will be easy to find another woman to support him who doesn't have a son and won't get frustrated and put him out. He thinks he deserves that for the warm hug thing, and that's been reinforced for him for years.

He failed the marriage interview. You can find a partner who does want to work together towards shared goals with you like financial stability and raising your son in a loving home and taking care of your home together. Don't settle and keep coming back.

You are so right NewEveryDay. Even though it hurts so much to admit, that is the truth. I am easily replaceable for him, after our five years of being together.

He did say over the summer when I was acting a bit strange and distant "do I need to start shopping for a new girlfriend?" I know it's a joke, but I always believe there is some truth in every joke. If he did not meant it at all, he would not have said that even as a joke. Same as the joke he said in our early days that he "would marry me now if I buy him a Ferrari". Even though that's a joke, he does like a woman pampering him and he also knows that "I'll marry you" is a powerful weapon to lure women.

Further, previous GF before me was a doctor. Apparently they dated less than a year, yet when she was looking to buy a house for her and her young daughter, xBF who was only with her for about 6 months, demanded that she would buy a house that he likes. Of course he was not going to financially contribute to the purchase. But he thought it was a reasonable request. Understandably, the doctor xGF ignored his request and went ahead and purchased her home that is convenient for her work and good for her daughter. That triggered their split. xBF was mad that she did not accommodate his wish, and broke up. When he told me about it, I thought that was odd and commented that but they were not married and not pooling their financials together, so it was natural for her to consider her and her daughter's wishes... Besides, they were together only for 6 months. Or am I wrong to think that? Because he was also upset that I did not buy a house at a location xBF wanted me to buy, even though I explained that will be too far from my work (and also he was not paying for it, so why do I need to spend $$$ to buy a house he likes at his favorite location while it will take me much longer to work and it will also move my son away from his friends...). Is that an American thing? That even a couple who are not married and not pooling finances together, to buy a house together but a GF pays for it???

No, that is not an American thing

No level headed self confident woman would give in to such a request. Or spend one more minute of her time thinking about this guy. Time to move on.

You need to take a serious long term break from dating because you are willing to settle for so little from a man. Please stay single for your own good and that of your dear son.
Also, once you begin dating, moving in together needs to be completely off the table. People who live together before marriage have a less successful chance of a lasting marriage.
On the plus side, you didn't get bullied into buying a house the exBF wanted you to buy.

Thanks unwritten, I thought I am not up to the modern American standard where men do not support women financially and women should not complain about it, while women should be giving to BFs... xBF told me about his buddy who is dating this (again) doctor. She is older than me with no kids, so knows that she will not have any kids. So apparently even though she and her BF (= xBF's friend) are not married, she wrote a will that if she dies the house will go to her BF, even though she bought it alone. I could tell xBF liked the story and wished I would do the same for him - I DID tell him "that is good for your friend, but I have a son, so if I die, all of my assets will go to him as long as I am single".

Yes, that was one of my fears which were contributing to my wish to end our relationship.

Last couple of years, we went to look for homes together. I was ALMOST brainwashed and convinced to buy what he liked, but thankfully I woke up and became resentful. Not only financial burden he was willing to put me through, he said he wanted over an acre of land, however he does not even mow my current house's lawn (less than 0.25 acre)! I translated what he was telling me - he wanted me to spend my money to buy a huge house that he likes, even though it will be so far from my work. Which means I will come home much later but still xBF will not be waiting for me with dinner, but I will be still cooking after my work and long commute. Oh, then I need to clean the bigger house too. And the house comes with a huge yard, which xBF will make my son take care of. If my son does not do that, I am certain xBF would have called him "lazy" and made him do this.

Yes, it's scary how brain washed I was, but when I pictured the image, I felt that I needed to break up BEFORE I buy any property. That's why I was thinking of breakup more seriously the past couple of months, which he noticed. I do give him a credit that he tried to be nice during this time, however, that might be due to his wanting to stay at my house because it is easier and not because he wanted to make amend.

If he had a wonderful relationship with my son, I would not have minded that he followed us and continued to live with us at a new place, but unfortunately that was not the case.

So I was searching for a property alone and xBF was quite upset that I was doing so without any consultation. So I did share the information such as I was going to go see a property, I found some good stuff, etc., so that it was not a secret. But unless he offered to pay half, I did not feel that he should have the decision making power, especially at that time I was already leaning towards ending our relationship because each day my son hated him more. In the past when I told him I "would not buy real estate with you unless we are married", he always said "we can do that - we will get married", but clearly that did not happen. Since last summer, as my son began truly hating xBF, I realized that marrying xBF was not realistic, so I gave up on the idea of buying any property with him.

I do not want to make it sound like xBF was a monster. I want to believe he was NOT trying to be a jerk. But as a result of being so cheap, a chronic taker, lazy, immature, short-tempered and commitment phobia, he ended up using many around him including myself. My mistake was that I believed somehow I could have changed him Also, since no one ever disliked my son as he has the very likable personality, it took me a while to accept that xBF indeed did not like my son.

Good morning! This morning I found a dead bird in front of my door Looks like he flew right into the window above my door and fell down. I have seen similar incidents elsewhere. Now, I can be superstitious at times... this was NOT a very pleasant incident and I did not take it well. I have a pet cemetery underneath my deck (for our beloved pet rabbit, 3 gold fish, and 5 wild baby rabbits that were born in our yard but abandoned by their mother and died), thought of burying this poor brown bird but I decided to do something different this time. I still wrapped it with a pure white paper towel like I normally do for others, but instead of putting the body in a box and burying it, I decided to throw it away. I felt horrible, but I want to shake off my "too much emotions" somehow. Many guys are capable of not dealing with too much emotion or empathy, which seems to always work in their favor. I do not want to have this much empathy all the time and end up being used by others.

Sorry I wanted to vent..... Something tells me, however, that in the end, when I go home tonight I will bury the little guy... Sigh

OK, not to be even more superstitious.... my phone seems to be dying completely. The death I witnessed this morning was indicating the death of my smart phone. Agh. I need to make sure it is still functional in order to be able to trade it in! I cannot access to any of the internet nor receive any emails or texts, other than iMessages. Does anyone know how to fix this? I'm following the instruction found on a website but nothing seems to be working...

Candy that Buyers Renters Freeloaders book will be so good for you, like a vaccination to help keep you strong the next time you meet someone who isn't relationship material. Don't waste time feeling ashamed, if this stuff was so obvious we wouldn't have fell for it to begin with. But like the saying goes Forewarned is forearmed!

Thanks NewEveryDay, I think we must have cross posted. I'm having not only mental and emotional breakdown but apparently technology breakdown as well...

I feel like running out of time somehow, and that is making me very clingy and needy. I do not think my fogged up head is that messed up to actually believe my xBF was great marriage material, however, did believe that by my being nice and giving and supportive, he will turn around and we will be married.

I probably knew deep down that is not true. He has talked about marriage a lot, yes, and we did go see a ring on several occasions. But he is very cheap (he has money though) and probably thought "hmm, do I really want to spend this much??". In fact, he told me that he would need a raise before he could afford the ring, but that is not true at all. His mother passed away and he received a quite large lump sum. I never said anything about it, clearly it is his and none of my business. But he was going to buy a vacation home in FL, and also bought another (his 3rd) car with it. So while he has money, he does not pay for bills at my house, he does not buy a ring for me, but rather spend it for all to his benefit. I did feel bitter about it. But I never said anything about it.

So the bottom line is, again, it confirmed that I am an enabler. I am attracting freeloaders/renters, because I am not strong enough to stand up for myself and for my son. If my standing up means breaking up, so be it, but I never had such courage. Those guys could smell my weakness, and clearly took advantage of me.

Thanks for telling me to not waste time feeling ashamed. I know, that will not benefit me in any way... I won't get my time back. That's gone. Also feeling low will not help me heal either. I will get the book.

Candy: About the phone: Take it to the store where you bought it and tell them the problem. They will help you. I have AT&T and an iPhone, and made an appointment at my local store. In and out. All was good.

No, Ex BF wasn't trying to be a jerk; it came naturally to him. Don't make any excuses for him.

Thanks for the tip Belle, my phone at one point completely shut down and I thought I had lost all my data. Finally this evening I was able to make it work. Maybe it was a help I needed for an easier NC

You are right, I need to stop making excuses for him. I ended up burying the little guy this evening, and between that and my phone not working for pretty much all day, it turned out to be an easy day where I was not obsessing about our breakup. And it felt GOOD 😊

Burying the little guy was a kindness. Your big heart deserves a hero in your life. One day ......!

Aww, thanks Belle, I truly hope I will be able to screen out bad apples next time and meet my hero!

Of course he tries to mess up my emotions

He texted me a picture of a nice expensive looking watch and asked "do you like my new watch?"

What the #@&*

I know, I should not have responded. But I was genuinely offended by this. Is he living in a La la land?? Normally (and I'm sure he was expecting me to respond the way I normally do) I would say something like "that looks nice, what's the occasion" or "beautiful watch" or some sort. But I just replied "nice to have $$$"

He immediately responded saying "you would know". Is he picking a fight??? I did not respond to that. Then he sent me a series of texts:

"...and besides, I do not have anyone to worry about anymore (as if he used to financially take care of me... so I did not respond either)

then

"And I don't need to buy this!" with a picture of a gorgeous diamond ring (looks like he was in a jewelry store, so the picture of the watch must have been taken there as well)

What the #@&*

I did not respond.

then

"Sorry, just a little hurt at this point"

I did not respond.

"Walking around Vegas with all the couple's holding hands does not help"

I reminded him that he had 5 years but never proposed (I know, I should have kept quiet) and he said it would not have mattered since my son disapproves it anyway.

I think he wants me to feel sorry for him and believes that he was just about to propose me when he learned that my son dislikes him and he had to give up on the idea.

Time to change your number.

That was my setback... focusing on my son's school selection now to keep my mind off.

You need to change all your contact information? Are you going to do this?

You keep saying you know you should not have responded, yet you repeatedly did. Why?

I only have one cell number (no home phone) and can't change this, as I use it for my work, my son's school, medical, emergency contact, security company, everything. I'm also in the middle of potentially buying a property and my number has been used for all the legal documents, so changing it now is probably not a good idea.

I responded because I was very disturbed by his casual "what do you think?" text.... I was shocked at myself how upset I was when I sensed the tone of 'business as usual' in his text, after all these weeks. Maybe I wanted to clarify that the whole thing happened NOT because one day I decided I did not love him but because of his past actions (or no actions) and that he should have thought about this before it got to this point...., although I was not consciously thinking like that. It was more of a 'reaction' to the surprise casual text.

This guy is a complete jerk, very selfish and completely took advantage of you during your entire relationship.

Why do you even care what he thinks, says or feels? Move on and block his number or change all your contact info.

If you're adamant in not changing your number (which is an excuse as you can always change it if you really wanted to) then you can block his number through your carrier. He won't be able to text or call you if you do this. Sorry to seem harsh but trust me its for your well being. He is stringing you along because he knows he can and you continue to let him affect you negatively. He even caused you to lose another relationship you were trying to build. Even thought that's probably for the best because you are not ready to begin dating in all honesty. You need time to heal so that you can build a meaningful relationship.

I am going through some of Dr. Harley's letters, and stumbled upon this under "Preparing for Marriage":

"...if you don't see the ability to meet your need while you date, chances are, you will not have that need met after marriage. Those who are moody during courtship, can be even more moody after marriage. Those who have a difficult time being affectionate during courtship, often express affection rarely after marriage. Those who don't talk much before marriage, talk less after marriage."

That's something I used to think before I got myself in some messy situations. That's something I used to TELL my friends who were debating whether they should not marry their boyfriends... Wow, and I was actually thinking (or desperately and unrealistically hoping) xBF would change for better.....

That�s what I love about reading this stuff. Loyalty is for folks worth being loyal to. All my relationships got better, with family and at work, the more I read here. And did you know there�s a parenting book too?

Thanks NewEveryDay for the input. No, I don't think I am aware of his parenting book.

I did however read his letters about and suggestions to making the stepfamily work. It says it is very difficult, as parents tend to side with their children and the usual rules do not apply. In such case, he recommends living separately. Even for a couple who made the commitment to stay together, when step children are involved, it is extremely difficult and Dr. Harley recommends that husband and wife live separately with own kids. Of course it did not work for me, where we were not even officially committed and also that he had never raised kids himself.

But that's not what you are referring to, correct? I will do some research on his book about parenting. I do need that!

P.S., I can't find my new Keurig - if my xBF also took it with him, I'm going to kill him! I bought that one!

I have to remain calm, but to keep finding out there are lots of missing items is VERY upsetting. I looked around but could not find it, so the chances are, he took it when he left. I don't want to be at the same level as him, and am trying so hard to not let this severely affect me, but it's hard. I let him stay at my house for free for five years, cleaned and cooked for him, and this is how he paid back. What, just because we broke up?? I had NEVER EVER had this bad breakup. No breakups are easy, but all other guys remained reasonable.

Can't believe anyone can be this jerk and cheap and all about how he can smooch off $$ from others. What did his parents teach??? I know his dad was a jerk (well I never met him but he apparently had very bad temper, regularly cursing and being verbally abusive, and he also never provided any tender and kind love - xBF and his brothers all have the same trait). His brother who was married had a terrible marriage (now his wife is dead), the other brother and xBF had never been married or in long term relationships (except our 5 year). I should have realized that it's a HUGE red flag! This is why it's important to look at your significant other's parents/family too, as how they are say A LOT about your partner.

Sorry for venting, but it hurts so much to face that I was with someone who can do this. I do not have the ability to sniff the bad apples. I always made excuses for others and tried to look at the 'good' sides but they do not appreciate that, being nice to others means you get used and taken advantage of.

Here is some good reads and radio clips on blended families. Blended Families

Thanks BrainHurts. It is a bit discouraging how difficult it is to make blended families work.... But then again, who said life is easy

Took my son to the Sat evening mass. The pastor talked about how people get frustrated, upset, sad, or unhappy. It's the gap between expectation and reality. So true. The wider the gap, the more upset/disappointed/unhappy you will be. This is exactly what I have gone through with any relationships, really. Even ones with my son, parents, friends, co-workers. I have certain expectations, and when they are not met, whether because I have unrealistic expectations or because I do not communicate them clearly and thus people do not know what they are expected of, I feel very sad, upset, betrayed, disappointed, and unhappy. What I can control is to make sure my expectations are realistic, and to communicate my expectations.

One positive update: I did find my coffee maker. Thank goodness! Not so much for the coffee maker itself, but the fact xBF did not steal it from me, made me feel so much better, beyond words. I have troubles hating someone completely, and I hate having very dark and ugly feelings. They weigh me down. I was praying today at church to lift such dark feelings, and I feel like my prayers were answered. I am not sure if this is again my usual 'making excuses for x, but I am glad he was not as jerk as I decided he was this afternoon.

I am having good days and bad days... Today may be one of those bad days

When I am facing some stressful situations (right now my stress is coming from my property search and my son's school related issues), I just wish I could lean on someone else, and that is when I miss having a BF. I have been a single mom for over 10 years, and I am getting old and tired , and sometimes I just wish I could share some of my burden with someone else. When my son was younger, while child raising might have been physically more demanding, mentally it was much simpler and easier, and I did not feel this overwhelmed. I know that my xBF was not really providing anything solid other than empty words, so other than his 'hugs' and words, it wasn't like he would have helped me, but right now I feel even those may provide some relief to my stress.

On the positive side, it has been quite comfortable and easy to maintain my household without his junk (he believes in keeping everything) everywhere, and the amount of laundry I need to do is so much less that it is saving me lots of time. I also love the fact I do not have to worry about receiving SOS texts from my son regarding xBF when I am not around. My son seems to have less problem listening to me since xBF left. My guess is that (1) he has less stress in his life without xBF and thus less irritable, (2) he can be himself and is happier, (3) instructions are coming from me, rather than xBF (or he does not have to second guess whether they were originated by xBF but I am just conveying the message), and he does not have to resist me.

Nothing really to update... things are becoming a bit easier and I am used to not having xBF around, but still I often feel lonely and discouraged. I do not believe I am missing him as a person, but am missing having someone around and not having to go out to find another partner.

When I look around or do some research on relationships, the findings consistently point to the difficulty of making 'blended family' work. On both ends, it is difficult to deal with someone else's kids you did not raise. Mine will leave the house in a few years, which will presumably make dating much easier, but (1) I do not think I am willing to wait for another 3 years before dating someone, and also I do not wish to date someone who does not want to eventually marry, (2) it does not mean that I can be with anyone - he still need to be at least warm and friendly toward my son.

I just can't imagine guys who are not planning on using women - why would they want to marry at this juncture of life? It is not like we are going to have babies now. They certainly would like to have girlfriends, but do they need to get married? If I try to find a man who is willing to marry, am I ultimately finding people like xBF who likes to benefit from a women?

Are you going out and doing things with friends and family? What about going to some meetup groups? Keep yourself busy and take care of yourself and the time will help you heal.

Candy_Crusher, don't judge all men based on your experience with your xBF. From what you describe, your xBF wasn't even a renter, and was a complete freeloader. That would be like me deciding all women are like my STBXWW. I understand that after what you've experienced, it is difficult to trust. Many men are out there looking for a meaningful relationship, with a goal of a romantic and loving marriage. They're out there, you should make it your goal to filter out the freeloaders. Raise your standards, substantially, you deserve MUCH better!

Candy how about setting a time aside for you and your family to make amends for investing so much in that abuser. Like Brainhurts said take some time in friendships and family with non users so you know what that feels like so you have some basis of comparison later on. Right now if you compare someone to your abusive user of an ex everyone will look like jumping into a relationship with. You deserve better! Raise the bar! The house isn�t on fire take your time.

Thanks BH, I am trying to keep myself busy. Work and my son's school situations have been keeping me very busy but also causing some stress, and when I am in a stressful situation, I long for a partner's shoulder, so it's kind of a vicious cycle. I continue to enjoy my weekly dance classes (I take 3 lessons a week) though, and during the lessons I do not think about anything else so that's my soul cleansing time

You are right abrrba. I know I shouldn't judge all men just because I had bad experiences. But it seems like a common theme for me...

My xH had multiple emotional affairs and also had sex addiction, which largely contributed to our divorce. I thought we were soul mates, and that is what he said, but in the end he said he stayed with me because I made good money He told me a lot of hurtful things when we were going through divorce.

Then a few years later when I met xBF1, he wanted to reconcile. After all that hurtful comments and that he did not love me anymore... he wanted to come back. 80% of my heart told me to not trust him, but 20% told me to try to reconcile... but soon as I showed some interest of reconciliation, he found a pretty woman with money and married her.

Then onto this xBF1, who wanted to marry me so much that he almost scared me (as he talked about marriage at very early stage when I was not ready yet). Kind of similar story to xBF2, I guess. Maybe because I made him wait too long, who knows, but after 5 years, it was not going anywhere but I wanted to remarry and have another baby, so I broke up with him. He was sad but did not try to make amend. Or maybe he did in his own way (he sent some gifts, cards, etc., but clearly that is not what I was looking for), but nothing compelling. Yet a year later, when I met my xBF2, xBF1 cried and wanted to come back. Actually this spring for mother's day, I received beautiful flowers at home and it turned out it was from xBF1. Not sure why he did that, but he does from time to time sends something so this may be his way of checking to see if I am single and available...?

Then xBF2... Another 5 years with xBF2. He kept telling me I was the one but never really made the move. I feel that all these guys were renters - it's probably me who is allowing them to be renters (or freeloaders) . I make excuses for those guys, and that's why they get very comfortable and lazy to make efforts... I know that. It's hard to stop this though, as my rationale is that no one is perfect. So I end up feeling guilty for staying upset over their behaviors. I do the same thing to my son, and that is why I am having a hard time now.

There is a guy who has been asking me out every time I broke up (after divorce from xH, breakup with xBF1, and now with xBF2). He is an extremely nice guy and very family oriented. But I am not attracted to him.

There are some other guys who have asked me out, but it seems I am not attracted to any of them, except for one. One is a very intelligent, mature, laid back, honest, generous, and good looking guy. But he has 4 kids, and even though the older 2 are in their 20s they still live with him, and it seems his schedule (outside of work) is 99% full because there is always something going on with one of the 4. And even though he seems to like me, I can't help but to second guess that he is just looking for a fun date when he has time (1%) and is not really looking for marriage (as he seems still hurt from his divorce 10 years ago).

...hence I am very discouraged... sigh.

Thanks NED, I should probably just focus on my work, son, and dance lessons. I go out with my girl friends too, sometimes, but if I go out now they may bring up xBF2 and I don't want to talk about him right now...

Yes, I needed the reminder that I do not need to rush anything!

Candy,
Please listen to what everyone is telling you. I understand insecurity to the top of the line. I've tried 3 times with the same man. It does not get any better. I won't go into deep details about what has happened, bit promises were not kept and he too is a taker with big anger issues. I had my own to work on, but Dr. Harley taught me to relax when I got angry, to walk away, or put some distance if I didn't think I could keep my mouth shut. After years of resentment it was really hard to do, but since I've gained that control over my feelings, some insecurity of being alone has disappeared. I'm more afraid of a bad relationship than none. I have programs at my church I can be involved in, not really many close friends because I'm actually more comfortable talking to more of the men I know than the women - being an introvert does not help. If you have single friends - that is a blessing. At least one you can talk to when you feel blue, one who can show empathy and encouragement. A hug from a trusted female can come to feel even better than the thought of a hug from a male. Coming out of a romantic relationship (or one hoped for) is like coming off of drugs. After Dr. Harley explained that, it was a whole lot easier to let the urge to fade. As long as I focus on my religious beliefs/relationships, it's easier to fill up the empty space left behind. And if I can do it I'm sure you can. My insecurities are so bad that I have seizures from C-ptsd. They are triggered by certain behaviors of the other in an intimate relationship. I had to start taking meds for them when I was 27yrs old & single with 2 small children to care for and still believed some of the things my mother told me growing up (that I was too young to understand). But over the years, I learned her words were not true and rarely have to take the meds I used to have to take 2mg daily of (now I only have to take 1mg on occasion when I let things get too deep under my skin) & suspect one might come on in a nightmare. It's been 1yr since I've had to have a 6mo RX refill prescribed. I only keep it around in case I'm afraid one might happen.
But you can do this - let that man go. Block him from any contact with you. You are loved in life, but not by him. He just wants what he can get. Fill your life up with people that fill you up and encourage you. Take care. Please let us know how things are going?

Thanks RMW for the kind words and encouragement. It's been a roller coaster ride for me. Clearly my day-to-day life is getting easier and often I am not even thinking about it, but at the same time there have been some triggers that made things harder. For example, my brother and his wife just had their second child. I am happy for them but secretly jealous too. I wish I could have more kids. When I am nervous about my health, I wish I had someone I can turn into and get some comfort from. Heading into the holiday season is not helping either.

That being said, I understand that I need to believe in my decision and stay strong. Unfortunately, no one will make my life better magically overnight. I have to learn to not try to ruin my future by easing today's temporary pain.

I am taking a baby step each day... sometimes 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Hopefully I will be in a much better place soon.

Your doing good then. I'm crying right now & extra tired. I have to wait until Monday cor the guidance counselor at school to return after the holiday break.

I told Dr. Harley about my situation & he let me know get it to where I can support myself & get out. And he is so right. The man just proved his dictatorship again this morning and told me he didn't care whether I liked what he wanted or not, he was going to have it even if it does make my life hell here on earth.

My faith is all I have other than CR at church once a week. I don't have close friends because I really don't trust well anymore. All I can do is come here to learn, share, and seek support myself.

It hurts horribly, and is very discouraging, but holding on to our faith & following proper guidance will help us through.

I hope you get to feeling better, right now I'm having to work at it too. I'll keep you in my prayers. I would need a true miracle like the ones in the Bible to be able to get me out from under the ***hole I'm stuck married to at the moment. But I have to keep everything about leaving to myself until it's time to leave, and then just do it.

Keep me posted on how you are doing & maybe that will help me hold on too. Take care.
RMW

Hi RMW. Sorry you are going through tough time. I do not know your story fully, I could not find your posts. Your H sounds like a control freak... my xBF was like that too for certain things.

I won't say I'm doing good, but trying each day. Different circumstances, but we are both fighting to get stronger. Do you have a job that can support you financially? Do you have family members who can help you out? Once you have the economical independence, at least logistics can get easier...

Hugs.

Are you staying NC with your XBF?

Thanks Candy Crushed, the thought of a hug felt good. No I have nowhere to turn right now. I am not able to hold down just any job and will have to have some guidance & probably training for one that will totally support me. But this week when I went to CR I asked for a sponsor because things felt so hopeless. We talked Tues. night until I had to go because I was hurting & so tired. Besides, it wasn't something that we could discuss at our worship gatherings. But today she & I talked for over an hour & she shared things with me that I would never have guessed. I gave her the "big picture" and all details that came up in our long talk. There are still uncertainties about a lot of things, but having her to talk to & her knowing more about some things that can help, possibly sooner than thought before, at least I have that to reflect on. When Monday get a here, Dr. Ford will be back in her office and hopefully give me more guidance in the workfield with as little extra training as possible. I spoke with the secretary at the office & she sounded positive about the possibilities.
Unfortunately my H will be off work tomorrow & I will have to deal with him all day. But with the support of my sponsor, she is helping me keep my thoughts in line to accomplish what Dr. Harley guided me to do. Even though she is only one person in the process, her hugs and guidance and telling me about things that could be easier once the opportunity arrives, has given me more strength than I have felt in quite some time. At least I don't feel totally alone fighting my battles.
I hope you are doing well and managing to keep your xbf away from you. I know how hard that can be. Back in the 90's, I actually had to get a restraining order to keep one man out of my life. He would not leave me alone & I was raising my two children alone. Thankfully there was child support & he was a Cpt. in the army. So I focused on my children, the Lord and trying to find what had caused me to suddenly start having seizures at the age of 27. I spent 10 years that I dated only one man (the one with a restraining order against him) and was actually happier than I had been married. Then after 10yrs, I met someone in church & one Sunday, something just clicked. Must have for him too. We dated 9mos with no sex and then married. It didn't take long for a jealous 16yra old stepdaughter to start doing everything possible to destroy the marriage, and it worked. I spent the next 8 years dating different people, for engaged once & found out he was a sex addict and pretty much called it off with men unless they were willing to keep it on a friend only basis. During this time, I met a legally blind man & we developed a relationship that was more of a father/daughter thing. He definitely would get five it to me full blast if I did something that would hurt myself (thankfully) but he was also there to show me how much I mattered. And just before he died, he told me to follow my gut where this relationship started. Had it not been for my abandonment issues along with my inability to work at the time I might have been strong enough to blow this man off. Oh well, that's the past. It's time to look to the future and see where there is help in helping me find a job to be totally independent. I have definitely learned a bunch about red flags & what to learn before even allowing any close emotional attachment to a man happen ever again. And it will definitely guided by Dr. Harley next time rather than the issues I fell weak to before.
Hope I haven't bored or confused you in any of it all. Just can't go back over everything written to see if I repeated stuff or gave proper details. My phone isn't big enough & can't use his computer. He can't get in, and is actually not motivated to anyway.
Take care, Happy Thanksgiving and let me know how it goes for you. Big hugs back to you, hope it feels like a rainbow for you. (I'll settle for peace & be blissful).
RMW

Well, I was maintaining NC for quite some time, and I was getting stronger. But some triggers did make me feel very vulnerable and weak from time to time. Then I missed him so much and start obsessing him (and I KNOW that I am re-writing the history and making everything look beautiful and wonderful when I miss him). I never had a courage to block him. So despite I deleted his number, when he contacted me, I could have read those texts. Which clearly pulled me back (and I know this is preciously why people recommend blocking your ex...).

So I began to feel that I still loved him. This thought was making my day to day life so much harder. Trying not to contact him became a huge task (but I was still doing NC). Then one day, this is probably several weeks back - my security alarm went off when I took my dog out in the morning (I forgot to disarm before I left the house). I did not bring my phone with me. My son's phone was in my room and he could not hear it. The security company called my phone, my son's (they were both in my room and on silent mode so my son did not realize the phones were ringing), and since no one was answering, they called my xBF (he was another contact, which I completely forgot to take off when we broke up). He freaked out that someone did break in our house and frantically calling me (and since I was not answering he was even more convinced that something might have happened, and thus asked the dispatcher to send police to our house). When I realized how worried he was and so many missed calls, my feeling in the fantasy world (that I still love him) was confirmed. I broke down on NC and called him to let him know we were ok. Initially he was thrilled that I return his texts and calls sometimes, but as time goes by, he got used to that and then must have realized that this does not mean that he could not come back to my house. I noticed that he is getting frustrated for not getting what he wants (he does not say this explicitly, but he seems to be getting short with people - he always had short temper but it seems worse and also with me in some of his responses). Rather than using this as an opportunity to win me back, in his mind I am not making this easy for him and he is not pleased, that is my take.

I am clearly wasting my time.

Wow RMW. You have gone through a lot. As baggage grows, it's increasingly difficult to trust own judgement and hold onto hope. At least that is the case for me.

I'm sorry you are hurting. I don't have wise and practical advice as I am failing to follow people's advice on a consistent basis. But it is helpful for me to come here from time to time (I do not come visit as often anymore, as it reminds me of xBF) to see how others in similar situations manage to stay strong. It gives me courage. Hope you stay around too to get more experienced MBers' perspectives and feedback.

One day at a time. Happy Monday!

Hi candycrusher, I'm sorry you are struggling so hard with mixed emotions. That is one of the hardest things to make it through. But you can do it, I believe in you. I wish I could have NC with H, but at least I made it out to the college today & spoke with one of their counselors. Got my transcript & paperwork on about 4 or 5 different degrees or certificates to look through. I'm just praying & keeping on reaching out for God's guidance in whatever this leads me to. I still have plenty of research & waiting to do. Waiting until I can get our & away from him is the hardest part. Only thing I can figure is my situation being used to make me strong enough for the day I am finally free of him!
Don't give up on yourself!! Just because you stumbled doesn't mean you can't get back up & start over. We all have so much to learn - I'm just thankful for when I get to see what it is I'm learning...that helps make me stronger. My mind keeps jumping forward to the day I'm in my own kitchen, cooking for no-one but me & possibly a friend or two on occasion. I can't process that part of the learning though, because right now I have to focus on schooling, job prospects for the future, and just what kind of budget I will need to live by - tight for sure. But that's ok. Even if I need to get stuff off my shoulders by coming here with all that's going on at one time, it's nice to know someone understands.
I will keep you in my prayers - I think of you every day because I know how hard your struggles are. I've been there before too.
Taking care of yourself is of the utmost importance right now so that you and your son are both safe from your xbf. ❤🙏

Sorry about the #s on the post. MB doesn't accept the hearts & praying hands I put on there for you.

RMW, thanks for your prayers. How are you doing? Glad to see that you are making progress on your job search and schooling.

I am having sleepless nights thinking about my son's schooling choices and future lately. I want him to have more options and possibility, but guiding him through in this journey is sometimes overwhelming, and I wish I had a true partner I could share some of the ideas with. Son's father is not very good at doing any hard lifting, and he is not paying for any of these things, so I am on my own. I do not want my son to be at disadvantage, just because he is growing up in a single parent household.

On the relationship front.... I realized that my contribution to attracting bad candidates (or that I am attracted to bad guys) is that I cannot feel romantic around nice guys who are not physically attractive. I do not want to sound shallow. I do not need for a guy to have six pack or anything. I look for men's intelligence first. Educational background or professional contribution are important as well. But I cannot deny that looks are also important to me. He does not need to look like Bradley Cooper, but I have to be attracted to him as a guy, not just as a decent human being.

The problem is, at this age, many guys who show interest in me look very old and I cannot see them as my potential romantic partner. I have some old friends who continue to ask me out when they learn that I am single, and they are all wonderful people - they are smart, successful, caring, responsible, and do not have xBF's traits, but I am not attracted to them. But I am getting older too, so I cannot be so picky. Maybe I can never find someone I am attracted to who do not have personality issues. Very discouraging.

Bless you Candycrusher, you sound so much like me until it hurts to know your pain & trials. I can remember going through so much of what you are going through now. The biggest difference was I was a stay at home mother married to an officer in the army So I had child support demanded by the military.
In some ways it was good but in others it was bad. That's why it took me so long to get out into the job force to try to earn money. And then when I went back to school & got my national certification as a massage therapist I didn't know that the injuries to my back would be such a negative factor & carrying the massage table would finish my back off. Things looked better on Monday as far as hope for a self supporting job at my age with my condition, plus being over 50. I'm totally exhausted from everything I'm having to deal with here (including a sneaky, lying, anger dominant man). My nerves are wrecked on by him as much as job/education hunting. If you have any ideas about jobs for a 51 yr old woman who isn't able to stand for long periods or lift anything heavy, it might help.

I'm losing weight fast enough now because of the stress, that it doesn't even feel healthy. I've gone from a size 10 back down to where my 4's & 5/6's fit again in less than 4 mos. I found porn movies in one of my H's drawers on the 17th & when I started asking questions, being careful how I asked them, he blew up anyway. He could be back from his (supposedly thought by him) secret mission of getting them out of the house. I checked, but didn't leave any trace of evidence of my snooping. But I got pictures on the 17th that he doesn't know about. & It's not the first time I've found porn hidden. He claims he was keeping them for $ for a friend, but he lied when he said he took them to an ex for her to keep for the owner to come back. When I questioned him last night he said he sold them to the ex...what's the truth, you know what I mean. That was before I even found these two & one of them looked like the one I found before. If I'd been smart, I would have gotten & dated pics of it back then, then I could have either proved he lied about taking it out or that he had that one plus the others hidden that he didn't bring up when confronted the 1st time.
After his blow up last night, I had to take my seizure RX & move to the love seat just to rest at all. His behavior is making it harder to think when it comes to clear thinking about employment - that plus all the negatives I've run into in that field itself. How does a mostly stay at home mom get back out there with so little to go on. I'm not real sure what else to look for right now.
Sorry about mixing the subjects together, but I'm still tired from last night plus the job hunt. Believe it or not, I come here every day to look for situations being worked on, just to find comfort. And to see how you are doing, when I know things are going better for you, it gives me a reason to smile, and when they're going worse, it gives me the opportunity to share how I've already made it through similar conditions and try to give you the hope for the better of it all. It was hard living on just the child support with my kids a growing up & having to accept food stamps, but I knew I couldn't go out & work & still be there for my kids the way I had needed someone to be there for me - plus get $ related counseling so I didn't pass on the same abuse I went through & protect them from my mother which was a big part of our lives at the time. When I confronted her in the middle of her abusive tactics and told her I wouldn't allow her to abuse my children the way she had me (2 times) she through me out of her house both times. I said fine & left & didn't have anything to do with her again until she came to me. At least she did finally learn to stop abusing or I wouldn't have anything to do with her...reminded me of have to tell her I wouldn't have an abortion when I found out I was pregnant the first time, just so I could finish school on her orders. Even though I'd been married for 9mos before I got pregnant. Wow!! Without God in my life, I don't know how I made it. Even a psychiatrist who tested me for bipolar on my request due to a previous marriage, said I wasn't bipolar & that it was a miracle that I was even alive for all that had happened to me. God is all that pulled me through.
Take care & let me know how things are going when possible. I'm afraid my H now, will show back up while I'm on the site & start something, so I have to go. Wish I had more good news to give, I just have to wait on God in His timing & keep on trucking as much as utterly possible. Prayers & hugs to you, heartfelt,
RMW
P.S. - whomever you find will have to be attractive to you, that actually is a need for a good relationship. Guess that's 1 reason other than bad behavior I couldn't flag at the time, that I ended up with who I'm with now - that & the fact that I hadn't outgrown my mother's lies to me at such an early age.

Thanks for your encouragement RMW. Take a good care of yourself. I am praying that you get some relief on the financial independence and your health issues. Hugs.

I am doing better, trying not to think too much these days, lol. You are right, I cannot force myself to be attracted to someone I am not attracted to. Dr. Harley includes physical attractiveness as one of the 'needs', although I believe it's more common for men, but if that is one of my 'needs', then it is what it is.

Hi Candycrusher,
I hope you have a good weekend and things go well for you and your son. I understand the fairing better not thinking these days.

I got a good report from my doctor today. He was encouraging on my moving forward and could understand my heart rate being a little high due to my tag being stolen just before time for me to leave (replaced when I got back) & for the fact that the stress is high in the present due to circumstances. At least my blood pressure wasn't affected by it.

Before I came back to town, I visited the mall in Dothan & spent an hour just walking around in peace, looking at things I enjoyed bit didn't actually feel a need to buy. That was the brightest part of my day. It was almost as good as getting to go to the beach. I just focused on the positives & thanked God for being there with me.

Still job hunting but there are few positions I could hold up under so far & none of them would pay enough to be totally self-supportive. But this is the time when I just can't quit, regardless of how discouraging it seems at the moment. As the Bible says, "this too shall pass". And I keep holding on to that and the other promises God made. Just have to do my part.

Take care of yourself & your family, and prayerfully you will find more peace as each day passes.
RMW

This is just my journal.... I feel that God is showing me lots of signs to make me realize how toxic the relationship was and particularly damaging to my son's well-being, and how I should be encouraged to move on.

My son and I went to church yesterday. We had a guest speaker who is a very highly accomplished attorney. He talked about many incidents where he felt he was called upon, where his faith was tested on, etc. One of the stories was about this 14-year-old boy who shot and ended up killing his mother's live-in boyfriend who was abusive. BF punched the boy's mother, she fell on the floor and was unconscious, and the boy thought she was dead (she was not). Despite this background, he was put in an adult facility where he was abused physically and sexually by other inmates. The lawyer (the guest speaker) told the boy "I will get you out of here, just wait", and the boy cried uncontrollably and begged him not to leave him behind.

This crushed my heart. My son, who often falls asleep (not proud of this but I'm trying to be honest here - he goes to Christian school but finds all the Bible time boring) during the mass, not only stayed awake the whole time, but he was leaning forward to listen as if he did not want to miss any single words out of the speaker.

On our way home in the car, I did not say anything but my son said "that speaker was great. It was one of the best masses I attended. The story about the 14-year-old was powerful and touching". It broke my heart to think that possibly he could relate to the story. Just one day prior, we were discussing about his schooling, and out of blue (I still do not know why he brought this up) he said "like xBF, that jerk, that useless sXXX, I'm so glad you dumped him!" As if he could read my mind that I had been still secretly missing xBF.

These incidents made me realize how much my son hated xBF, even though he NEVER really talked back or used dirty language to talk to xBF. All these years, he was respectful toward xBF, even though he hated xBF and he told me so behind xBF's back.

Then the news about the SC's 3-year-old girl. Her mother's live-in boyfriend was (as predicted) involved and responsible for at least hiding her body. He might have even killed her. This news affected me a lot, as if it is a cry from my son that he could have been that little girl, even though my xBF did not physically abuse my son, he was killing my son's spirits and self-esteem and sweet personality. Clearly many commented how it was the girl's mother's fault that it happened, since she let such monster live in the house. I felt that I was being blamed also for letting my xBF abuse my son for this long.

Today I came across this article about a lady whose mother stayed his her boyfriend even though he hated her and she hated him. The lady to this date still finds it hard to forgive her mother for staying with him.

All of these incidents and stories are screaming at me, reaching out to my heart and almost grabbing it with nails digging into it. I hate being this weak and emotionally dependent on xBF. He did not do anything, really, and I can't believe I rewrote the story and almost believed that my son might be OK with him as long as he changes!

Last week, when I went to my car, there was a piece of paper on my windshield. I thought I might have gotten a ticket (I did a bad parking job), but it turned out it was a love note. A few days prior to that, someone parked so close to my car that I could not get out. He was still in the car, realized that I was having a hard time, and pulled his car to park a little further away from mine. After that, we just walked together to the building talking about how tight these parking spaces are. When we got to the building (he uses different elevators to go to floors that the elevators I use won't stop), he told me his name and asked for my name. That was it. The note was from him. He said there was no other way to communicate so he left this note, and if I would be interested in taking a walk sometime during the lunch time.

I am not interested in dating him at all, and so I sent him email to the address he provided in the note stating that I am respectfully declining his offer if that is a date as I am not interested, but if he is looking for a friend to exercise with, I can walk sometime. Anyway, this too seems like a sign from God that I should be more hopeful about my future and find more strength to move forward.

Sorry for the long journal, I needed to get it out of my chest, as my pain for letting my son suffer is now weighing on very much.

And just to show how disconnected xBF was... and how he brainwashed me... He always told me "of course your son does not like me because I tell him NO, something you and your xH cannot say to your son", "I am in his way so he does not like me but you need to think what is best for him", etc. These comments sound very sincere, except, he verbally and emotionally abused my son. But that's what he has told his friends and family, so they believe that I am just spoiling my son and xBF was a bad guy who disciplined my son, and as a result my son hated him and that is why I broke up with him.

Good. I'm glad you broke up with him for his abuse towards your son. In blended marriages, the only one who is supposed to do the discipline is the biological parent. The step parent is to go to the biological parent & discuss any issues they may have & come to an agreement, and then the biological parent is to put the agreement of any discipline into action. I hope you are feeling better these days. Just remember to hold onto God's love for you and the love that the positive people in your life give.

Can't say things will work out for my marriage, but at least God granted me grace & guidance to get H calmed down for the moment. Hopefully until at least next Wednesday. Prayerfully, with God's guidance I can find the answers to what I need to do, one day at a time & be able to focus on taking care of what I need to do in my self-support delimma. And the bills coming up. I have until the 22nd to separate our vehicle insurances & nor be responsible for his & payment isn't due until the 26th. Plus if we break up before then I won't even be able to pay for phone charges. I'll keep praying for you, please keep praying for me. There is so much stress that I've lost down from 158lbs down to 139lbs now in the past few months. It's really hard to eat when the stress alone is making you throw up, even on an empty stomach. & there is no way pregnancy is even a possibility. Even after menopause I've heard of women becoming pregnant, but it takes two to make a baby - and that ain't happened.

Well, prayers both ways, take good care of yourself and keep me updated. HUGS!!!
RMW

Hi RMW, my goodness, you lost 20 pounds in a few months, that is not good. Do take care of yourself. I know it is easier said than done, but your health comes first. I had some health issues last year, and realized none of these problems we are talking about right now really matter if you are not even healthy. You are in my prayers.

I was not clear as to why you need your H to remain calm till next Wednesday - is that because of the logistics you mentioned, that you will separate your vehicle insurances and sorting out other financial issues?

Is he interested in following MB Principle? Is he open to counselling? If you separate, he will need to pay you maintenance sweetie.... so that should give you some financial relief. Hugs.

He won't agree to get an MB coach because it costs money. I already have the books, but a coach costs either 500 or a little more. But he agreed to the free counseling on next Wed. So that put the filing date off a couple more days for me to get more help.

Waiting for an opportunity alone now for reference from one attorney to another. Hopefully I'll get some free time from him tomorrow for that. Have to find out Alabama laws on on maintenance. Got paperwork today from bank on all charges to my card for my support to him on business. Income is limited, he's on disability, & all I've found online is to his favor so I need counsel from AL lawyer as far as maintenance goes. He did grab me this morning in bed so that will be in my favor.

Still hunting a place to store my stuff in the meantime. Had hope from someone at CR last night at church, but the one that's like a dad told me about it. Haven't heard anything hopeful from his wife on that yet.
She did give me a couple of numbers to call for guidance & said I could actually live at Christian Mission for up to two year if I qualify for their guidelines. But with my car, I can't get ssi, so no $ to pay insurance or phone or gas.... Everything is up in the air right now & in God's hands.

Hopefully Alabama will require temporary maintenance. Only God knows right now. I took my seizure meds about an hour ago so maybe I'll get sufficient sleep tonight to function better tomorrow.

I'll let you know as soon as possible. H if off work tomorrow, so probably won't be much to tell unless God provides the opportunity.

Take care, I'm working on it. Forced myself to eat healthy canned sockeye salmon tonight. No vegs I need here, & he's eating out, so... I ate all I could until I started to get sick from eating. Almost like what I went through when I was little. Forced to eat food even telling my mother it was making me sick and then when I threw up she would tell & scream at me. Got so bad I developed a bleeding ulcer from age 5 until 11. I tried to go throw up & run off blood as quiet as possible, but she'd wake up & yell at me & blame me for that too. Stayed anemic & sick for years. Once my brother moved out, it took about a year for my stomach to heal, so I got better.

Mercy, I'm rambling on when I should be sleeping. Let you know soon as I find out something.
RMW

RMW, so your H not agreeing to getting help and coaching from other means is strictly for cost reasons? If so, can't you ask him to read Dr. Harley's books you already own? He can email them too at free of charge.

In the mean time, I am praying that you can get your questions answered related to maintenance. Many attorneys offer free consultation initially.

I am having a hard time today. I hate that I miss xBF so much. I must have been brain washed. When I picture him coming back to our house and picking on my son for every little thing, I know that I can't let him do that to my son anymore. I know that he is not capable of changing into a compassionate guy who will try to understand my son (or any other people who he views are weaker or not capable) and come up with constructive solutions to rebuild the relationship. That is a huge task, and he will not be able to nor he will be willing to master. I am better off ditching this unrealistic hope and move on. I know that, but it is hard. I really did not think it would be this hard to break up with someone who mainly used me for the past 5 years only with sweet words with no actions and who verbally and emotionally abused my son. What's wrong with me!

When you realize you are obsessing over something, how do you calm yourself? I am plenty busy at work, but still somehow manage to day dream about xBF when I have a pocket of free time here and there. I want to stay mad at him so that I do not have to miss him but for whatever reason, I keep remembering those few, lol, beautiful moments.

I read "How to Plan B properly", and that helped a bit. Still struggling.

Switch it out for daydreaming about the great life you have created for you and your DS!

Thanks NewEveryDay for the encouragement. Yes, each day I am trying to distract myself, think of other positives in my life, try to block the thought about xBF... When I feel vulnerable, I miss him the most. I am fighting to get stronger.

This morning I was driving and passed by a parking lot where xBF, DS and I came to park on the Independence Day this past summer to see the firework. I remembered the incident where an elderly man who was directing traffic instructed us to go to another level (xBF was driving), and because we always park at the same level every year with the VIP parking pass I get, xBF got really mad and tried to go around this man to forcibly park. The old man tried to stop our car, and I was scared that xBF may accidentally have run over this poor man. xBF told him to "come over here!", almost threatening, and I begged xBF to stop harassing this man. DS and I were mortified.

I remembered that vividly, that after that incident, my desire to break up with him got even stronger. He is mean to everyone, not just to my DS. Anyone who is in his way, he will attack. He always told me "DS does not like me because I am the only one who is in his way, you and DS's father cannot say no to him". But it's actually xBF who cannot take NO from anyone.

I don�t think it�s your anger for xBF that will keep you safe from him, it is your love for yourself and your DS and the life you�re creating. Have you reread Buyers Renters Freeloaders lately? It will help reinforce what you do want. You have so much love to give and such a sweet son and you two deserve nothing but the best!

Have you written a plan B letter? Even if you don�t give it to him, it�s a great exercise at looking at what you do want in a relationship and keep you from settling for less. After that the less you think about him the better.

That is a very good point. But I am quite weak right now, and when I think of 'love' for myself, it becomes my desire for 'getting out of this pain', rather than truly respecting myself and DS. It truly feels like addiction where an addict wants to drink or use drugs one more time to ease pain. So... I thought if I could be angry at him, it will make it easier for me to stop missing him. Hopefully in time, I can actually take care of myself and DS emotionally better, without feeling vulnerable, scared, lonely, and hurt. I am desperately needing hope, courage, peace, confidence, faith, and wisdom.


I read Buyers Renters Freeloaders a few weeks ago, but I will try to read up more till they REALLY hit me and make sense. Thanks for your sweet words, I feel very helpless these days, but need to stay strong for my son.


This.... never thought about it, but it sounds like a great exercise. I have never written a plan B letter, even though I am familiar with the concept through this forum. I will try to see if there is a good Plan B template I can refer to....

Wow Candycrusher! Your last paragraph seems to fit my H to a T except there are no children involved. Everything is either "his way" or it's wrong! I'm waiting to see how negative he comes across to the free Christian counsel session set up for Wed. In the meantime, still trying to find a place to store my belongings. I was told by a friend from CR, that Christian Mission has a shelter I could live in for up to two years as long as I follow their rules or something. Only thing that worries me on that is the fact that my car is worth enough that even alone I can't get ssi & I don't know if Christian Mission has a rule like that. But until I can get my stuff out of the trailer & stored somewhere safe, at least since I gave him a hand job 2 days ago, he has stopped giving me a hard time. Right now it's hard to keep my hopes up for figuring out what to go into & study for, and for the storage thing. Plus some smaller issues that deal with money. It feels like a blur in my brain when I try to figure out what to go into. All of the feedback I get online is negative or I would have a better perspective. And I don't know anyone I can talk to that can help give me the day to day of what any of these jobs would be (realistically rather than technologically).

I know when you get lonely, it's so hard to keep from daydreaming about the good feelings you had. Dr. Harley explained it's like trying to overcome a drug addiction (and then went on to explain why).

I don't know your willpower, but of you can learn to put the face of a disgusting drug like cocaine or heroin on his face & look at him as taking you on a "trip", only to bring you right back down to the bottom & needing another "trip", maybe that could help as well as the no contact letter, whether given to him or not. If fact, when you feel lonely, sometimes just sitting & writing out your present feelings, crying out the pain and then throwing what you wrote away. Then sit down & wright out a letter of how he used & abused you - the ugliest thing you can think of, and then fold it up & put it somewhere private for future reference or simply repeat the whole procedure next time you start hurting. I've had to do it in past breakups that I didn't want to leave, and in the end, the negatives were always more than the positives. Be sure not to write a letter saying anything good about him oe how he made you feel, only about the pain you feel now because of him. It's his bad behavior that has brought on this pain, so that is the truth about what he actually "gave" you. Not his slick, lies that could make you feel good.

It's not easy, and probably until you begin to be able to talk to men again, it won't ease up that much. Not necessarily dating anyone, only friendship.

But if you don't feel strong enough for that even, maybe there are groups that you could go to for support in this area. Talking it out sometimes does help. I had to use both for one that I truly wanted to stay with, but found out he was a porn addict/sex addict. In fact, even though it's been over seven years since I've seen him, I can still remember the positives that pulled me to him. I still drive by where he & I lived together every time I get on the road to go anywhere. But over time, I've stopped even paying attention to that. Thankfully he & I haven't been in contact for the 7 yrs, so that helped a lot. It just didn't fix my problem with being able to see red flags when they occured or I wouldn't be where I am now!

Ugh. Kind of reminds me of an old country song I remember called Life's A Dance (you learn as you go) by John Michael Montgomery. Right now I'm having to hold on to whatever I cn find to pull through.

Hope maybe something said helps somehow. I hope you have the best weekend possible. Do something special for yourself if you can. Take care. HUGS!!!!
RMW

In the How to Plan B Correctly thread there an example Plan B letter from Dr. Harley�s SAA.

What self-care are you doing to move forward? We here at MB are big on coming up with plans and following them. One of the best things to help the healing process is to work on things you enjoy so you don�t have time to dwell on the past.

So what things are you doing? Are you in meetup groups or take a class you�ve always wanted? Or start a hobby you have always wanted or that you used to enjoy.

So what is your plan?

Thanks RMW. It's ironic that you are asking about my will power. That's something I tell my DS (he has no will power...lol). When it comes to work, I have strong will power, but when it is related to 'pain', I have no will power. No wonder my son does not have any. Sigh. So your H is a controlling guy as well. I understand how you feel at home with him... Does he pick on you as well? I remember often praying that xBF would be out with his friends in the evening so that I do not have to see how he picks on my son. When it's just two of us, I wanted to spend time with him. But xBF will ALWAYS find something negative to say about DS... it really was not pleasant to witness all that negativity. I hope your Wednesday counselling will have some positive impact. I'm praying for you.

BH, thanks for the suggestion. When I absolutely do not think about xBF would be when I am enjoying my hobby (I take classes 3-4 times a week) and when I am spending time with my son. Although even with my son, sometimes this 'lost' dream of having a family creeps up on me, making me extremely sad. I know, with xBF, it would not have been a happy bright family. I am just depressed about a fake, unrealistic picture I had in mind that I never really had in the first place.

Bless you Candycrusher, I understand about lost dreams. I've been struggling with that my whole life. My first one was to get a positive word from my mother on my efforts to live up to her praising my sister for becoming a nurse. Somehow my honors in school (my sister is 10 yrs older than me), even Who's Who among American High School Students wasn't even enough for a positive or encouraging word. It was all about my sister. I never could "live up to standard" enough to receive a comment of her being proud of my efforts. With my mom's demanding requirements of chicken farm work & me skipping school one day when my period started & my boyfriend picking me up to let me rest at his aunt's house, I ended up married at the age of 15. It was either that or no friends (since the age of 12) to interact with outside of school plus her judgement against me because of 2 of my older brothers getting girls pregnant, or stay locked up in prison at home with no-one at all besides her. She said, either marry or stop seeing him. So I picked getting married. Things would have gone well without my sister-in-law always coming around flirting with him once we did have a child together (about 18 mos into the marriage). If I hadn't found out they had been together & he had lied about who he had "been with" before we married, her flirts probably wouldn't have bothered me as much. But finding out about it later, totally turned me against any contact with her, especially when she got flirty with him. He didn't see it as a problem and after several mos, I told him it was over (I did warn him ahead of time, but he didn't put an end to it). The family didn't know about it, so I got blamed at 18 for the breakup of the marriage.(by my family) I didn't know anything about MB back then.

Since then, it seems like a downhill roll. I just kept ending up with one worse than the one before, because my family always blamed me. They never looked at the other side - so that's the type of men I learned to engage with. It felt natural.

I've learned a lot since I found out about MB, but when you're stuck with someone who only thinks of getting their own way, it does truly look helpless & hopeless. That's why I had to start looking towards just taking care of myself. And trusting that if God meant for me to be with someone, He would bring someone into my life at the appropriate time, who had no problem with learning MB ways of handling things, or I could learn to be happy single.

Sorry about the long post. But at least writing it down did help me finish looking at exactly what life could become either way.

Take care, HUGS!!!
RMW

You went through a lot RMW. You may not realize it, but these hard experiences have made you stronger. I, on the other hand, grew up in a very ordinary loving family, and never really experienced any hardship, so divorce was the hardest thing I experienced, and even now each breakup is so hard on me.

Hope you are having a good weekend. Are you prepping for the Wed session? List up all the questions and issues you would like to discuss with your H in front of the counselor - 1 hour is short, and you may not have another chance to go to counseling for a while.

Hi Candycrusher,
He has been a royal pill this weekend. But that's nothing new.

I have been going over things that need to be discussed, along with job & law searching. I called the counselor back & actually made a private session with him the evening before so that I won't get too out of line or off track. I don't believe it's really going to do any good after listening to H's mouth even today. At least I have some peace while he is asleep & I'm in a closed off, different room. I can actually breathe easier when I believe he will be asleep or gone for an extended period of time.

Hate to be ugly, but I really don't think I'll miss him. My biggest insecurity is financial. If I didn't have to worry about money, I would already be 100 miles from here & settling into a home of my own & schooling or a job I can enjoy for the rest of my life. If I had back the 10's of thousands wasted, I would never try giving him another chance. Timing....wow, what a factor!

Oh well. I just need continued prayers for positives in my life right now. Some of the negatives are positives in disguise I know, because they will bring on some type of growth, whatever it is. I just hope when it's over, things are divided fairly, and I get settled into my new life, that God grants me the grace of a period of time with at least very little growth -- i.e. rest & peace.

I hope things are going well for you. How are they going? How are you fairing? If you feel up to it, tell me all about it. You and the lady across the road from me are the two nicest females I know. The only two I can actually open up all the way with. So I would like to be there for you too.

Take Care & Big Hugs!!!
Hope to hear from you soon.
RMW

Well he just had to get up & start with negative comments again disrespectful judgements & threats all mixed together in one. He said, "what would you do if you lost your phone?". He knows that now I can't even afford that & he's already threatened me about the phone before.

I took a moment, turned on the audio recorder & calmly let him know why it was hard to keep contact with him & that if he would try the old, "If you don't have something good to say don't say anything at all" it would make things a whole lot easier to do.

Then be questioned "what is this thing Wed all about". I just calmly replied, "he didn't say. You heard him just like I did". He just shut up after that & waited to see if I would say anything else, and after about 10 minutes of me being quite, he got up & went back to bed....it's 1:30am.

At least there was no fighting in spite of his behavior. Praise the Lord for that!!!

But I need a true miracle from God where financial situations are concerned. Just having to deal with him is making me swell in my hands for sure. I wasn't in physical pain before he got back up & now I am again.

There's so much to get done & so little time to get it done. He already paid all of his insurance on the truck & hasn't helped me out 1 cent. If it weren't for me & My 29 yr membership with USAA he would be paying almost twice as much just for his truck. And he thinks he's the only one doing the giving. Oh well, that's just who he is, honestly, whether he gets his way or not. He uses everyone he can in everyway he can. I've seen it wasn't just the alcohol that the Dr told him he had to give up or die. And that CR didn't really stick with him, he was just using it to con me back in.
He fooled me into thinking he had changed. That won't happen again. I've seen way too much of who he is and the BEST nowhere even exists compared to even his everyday negatives & especially not his worst.

Take care, hope you have a good week coming up :-)

Well, he got up again & said forget counseling, that he wasn't wasting his time. .....

RMW, what is your financial situation? Do you have a job? Are you looking for a job? What is your skill set?

Actually, can you start up your own thread so we can give you some feedback on your situation? Others might be able to help but I don't want to threadjack Candycrushers thread.

Candycrusher, I'm still wondering how you and your son are fairing. I hope it's good, but I know sometimes it makes things easier just to have someone to talk to.

Please let us know how things are going?
RMW

Merry Christmas Candycrusher! I hope things are going better for you. You are still in my prayers.
in case I don't make it back in time to tell you.
May God bless you as much, even more than He has blessed me!

RMW

RMW, thank you for your sweet notes and Christmas wish. I hope you had a nice Christmas.

Sorry I was away for a while, initially due to some technical issues I had, but then I got really busy both at work and at home and didn't have any time to log in. Which was not a bad thing, the crazy schedule totally helped me focus on things in front of my eyes I needed to take care of and not on xBF. Also, it turned out I was plenty busy with parties without him which helped me get through the holiday without feeling sorry for myself too much. I'm thankful I have great friends around me.

I have been thinking about you. How are you? How was your Christmas? Most importantly, I was wondering about your appointment with the counselor. Did you end up going (I know your H changed his mind at the last minute)? You are in my prayers. Hugs.

Ugh, I just lost the reply I had written out for you. Most of the details are in the Divorcing/divorced forum under "H says put out or get out". If my head didn't hurt so bad still, I'd try to put them here for you.

I'm so glad to hear that your Christmas went the way it needed to go to help you through!
I hope and pray things continue in a way that will help you make it through the rest of the holidays & throughout your healing time. Great big hugs! Take care & keep me posted

Sure wish you had something to share CandyCrusher. I'm concerned from not hearing from you in so long. HUGS!
RMW

Hi Candycrusher, I keep looking to see if you've stopped by, and wondering how you are doing. I hope things are going well for you - hoping that is the reason you haven't been back so far. HUGS!
RMW

Hi RMW, thank you for checking in on me and sorry for not getting back. I was not logged in for over a month, due to a combination of technical issues, extremely busy schedules at work and home, and also I did not feel like checking in to be reminded of my issues I am doing ok, how are YOU? Sorry, I'm asking without reading any of your updates.... Thanks for your hugs, and HUGS back to you!

I feel I should give updates and openly admit I have been too weak or dumb to not follow through

While I was maintaining the NC and my mindset of "this is the best course of action", although it was very hard as I missed him constantly, I also had this 'if I want to, I can pick up a phone and call him - then he will come back to me happily' kind of mentality, which of course is a 180 degree opposite of the principle of NC. However that thought - kind of having a false backup plan - was giving me a sense of comfort. After I blocked him for a while, I unblocked him, in hope of hearing from him in case he sends me messages. That totally came from my weakness and low self esteem. After a month or two of breakup, he actually tried to win me back with his sweet talk and showing some commitment initially. Fast forward - we kind of saw each other on and off, meaning, when my son is not around and when our schedules worked, we met up to have lunch and/or dinner. We both have busy schedules so we did not get to see each other that much in the end.

What happened next is that - his desperation and my attractiveness created by the NC are gone because now he 'won me back', and yet now he does not live with me for free, so all the sudden he realized that it is expensive to keep 'dating' outside my house. There is no free laundry, cooking, and cleaning from me anymore. He has to clean his own house, prepares his own meals, etc. When we met outside he paid for meals most of the time. So now he did not have any benefit... He became verbally abusive towards me (also because now he could not be abusive towards my son), called me names and then in the end we had a big fight because of his name calling, I said we are done, and he told me to take my own advice.

I never had such an ugly breakup in my life. It was kind of my litmus test to see if he really cared about me - if so, even though he was no longer freeloading off of me financially and physically, he will still want to continue to see me. That did not last too long. 5 years of freeloading at my place, and he did not think it was unfair to me, and just after several 'outside' dates - probably just a handful or a few more - he decided I am too expensive to keep around and not worth of his time and money.

I am writing this because I want to be honest about my mistakes and how I did not follow your advice and how that changed things worse from bad. I knew your advice was the logical one but I was just too weak to execute it. I know that there are many who are like me and end up repeating the bad cycle due to the fear. I am hoping my recent real outcome can help give them some courage to end bad relationships before things get even worse.

At least he never saw my son ever again since our initial breakup in September (xBF wanted to start coming by my house again and offered to help with the pickups of my son from school, but I declined), and I did not tell my son I was seeing xBF, nothing has really changed for my son and I am the only one going through newly created heartache, which is the price I need to pay for my stupidity. It hurts tremendously but I need to go through this to truly understand what it means to NOT end bad relationships - tricking yourself into believing that he would change.... only prolong the pain.

I want to work on myself, to raise my bar and be able to believe that I am worthy of the high bar. I have many blessings, the biggest being my son - I do realize that nothing is as important. I thank GOD that I could stop his exposure to xBF 6 months ago. I know I deserve 'I told you so', but appreciate some encouragement too.

Candy_Crusher, I'm sorry to hear of the grief that xBF has put you through recently. Unfortunately, sometimes it's only the pain of experience that drives home the lessons the most. Don't beat yourself up, just dust yourself off and chalk it up to a bad decision. But you made a BETTER decision by telling him you are done with him!

Now you no longer need to second-guess your decisions of whether you should have given him another chance. You did, and he failed. He's a freeloader, and it doesn't sound like he'll ever progress beyond that. Be glad you didn't waste MORE years with him!

You're worth far more than that sorry sack of $&*(, so raise your bar high! We're praying for you!

Wow Candy good for you for not letting him back nor to see your son! You deserve a break from this man! Sorry it was so disappointing. When I divorced I was very lonely to the point I asked my little brother and sister to come visit. But stick with us you will learn to love your own company and not settle!

Thanks abrrba for your kind words. I have been very unrealistic to believe that I could somehow walk out of the mess differently than most people. No, that's actually not an accurate statement. I KNEW it would not work out. I could not find any factors that would have supported our relationship. YET I clung onto the hopeless relationship out of fear, and chose to close my eyes. I could not bear to see the reality. That never solves any issues and in fact make them worse. I should have known that from my earlier mistakes (I saw some red flags in my xH's behaviors but chose to ignore because I was living in denial). I really need to work on learning to be TOUGH. These freeloaders can smell my insecurity and take advantage of it. Now I know why I was the only one my xBF ever dated for more than 5 years - because I am the only one who put up with him for so long! He never had any long-term relationships. That itself should have been a red flag.


This made me laugh

Thanks NewEveryDay. I feel like a toddler who spends enormous amount of energy just to make that one tiny step. I will keep checking in to get encouragement, wisdom and hope from you all on this forum. Gotta get up and move on. I am extremely grateful that I have a healthy son who, despite my weakness which allowed xBF to verbally abuse him for years, still loves me deeply and that we are still very close. I will not screw this up.

This is very wise of you and you certainly aren't alone. Fear never goes away but you can learn to ignore it, react with stillness and recognise it's usually telling you the opposite of truth.

As for standards you don't have to wait until you 'feel' worthy. Just implement MB standards. They are for everyone!

Thanks indiegirl. I have fear that I will never find anyone I can be attracted to and be in love with as I am getting older. It stinks to get older! Obviously there is nothing I can do about that though. I need to learn to stay still..... That's good advice that I need to recognize that the 'fear' is telling me the opposite of truth. My head and mind are not very cooperative these days though, lol.

What hurts me is also that I KNOW xBF found someone else..... his attitude has changed quite drastically towards me over the past few weeks. He mentioned this girl he met on the plane (she is married though) - and how she was giving him compliments. I had some red flag when he told me this story. Since then, I noticed that he became very short with me and cold. I was almost certain he fell in love with someone else, and once asked him "what is going on? Why do I get the feeling that you do not want to see me?", he became very defensive. That's usually a sign he (or any guy) is hiding something. It almost appeared that he instigated and made me upset by calling names so that I would break up with him. This treatment came from someone who till just a few weeks ago still talking about moving together to somewhere warmer once my son goes off to college. This sudden change - and despite he has ALWAYS told me how nice I was - in the end he spoke of me as if I was a monster.... that is still causing great pain in me.

I should not care. It does not matter. Even if none of these happened, I had been very unhappy for a long time because of how he was towards my son, towards his own family, friends, etc., and I always questioned his personality and 'taker' mentality. After we broke up in September, he has been very edgy and basically disowned all his family members, got angry and cut off communication with 3 close friends he had. Those are people who offered him free dinners, drinks, etc. every time he visited (which was often) yet he NEVER offered the same. I remember I was shocked when he told me as I loved all these people and they were extremely giving to xBF. I am very amazed to see how he can cut off people around him who mean well and DID provide so much help to him... not sure how he can translate in his head that they are a burden to him. When I asked him if he would not feel bad losing them as they have done so much to him and that he soon will be alone by cutting off everyone around him if they do not agree with him, he said "nope, I don't need them" and also said "I knew you were going to say something like that". Several weeks later, he did the same to me

I need to recognize that my hurt and fear are making me believe that I have lost something big and nice.... while the truth is I always wanted to break off with him as I could not respect him as a person. I found so many journal entries I wrote, even going back 3 years ago, how I felt I should break up with him because he is a cheater (he already tried to cheat on me earlier on), user, and abusive.

Sorry for venting. Overall I am doing much better this time compared to September, but this feeling of hurt and fear come and go. It's one of those mornings.

Candy I can so relate. I live down where that school shooting was and spent 2 days now grieving and looking at the news and talking with everyone �how can someone do that?� I�m losing sleep while that guy is probably sleeping soundly. Enough. I need to look at my next steps and focus on those. I wrote to my congressmen and signed up to donate platelets and will go to IC tomorrow. I still feel lousy but I didn�t get into this mess overnight and I won�t be out of it overnight either.

New,

This week has been difficult for me in many ways, and the high school shooting was one of the heartaches. As a mother, I cannot imagine the pain and anger and all the unanswered "why?" questions that go through the parents' mind. This week I also heard about a mom who lost her teenage son. It ached my heart just hearing her story. Then I found out one of my old friends had a stroke last summer. Life is fragile and unfair for sure. But these sad events also made me realize what is really important in life for me. That is my son. I do not want to waste my energy and emotion on my xBF and let the precious time with my son slip away. It is so not worth it.

I searched but could not find your stories. Are you doing IC related to your relationship? I see that you are divorced in 2010 and have also teenage kids. Are you in a better place now?

I�ll bump my thread but I also settled and you�ll see some red flags that the posters warned me about but of course I thought �Love conquers all.�

At least I�ve been here long enough to know I deserve better and not try to suffer through in this marriage the way I did with my xH.

Hi NED, I just read and responded to your bumped thread. This is discouraging...... sigh. I wanted to believe everyone on this board who have gone through a lot in the end lived 'happily ever after'. OK, reality check time..... By the way, your ex- fiance sounds a lot like my xBF. He could not live alone either. As a result, he had multiple short term girl friends - when he got kicked out, he looked for another...... he has always been a freeloader.

Two days in a row I had bad dreams about xBF. In one, he is already �in love� with a new lady (there is a good reason I believe this is true) and I�m crushed. In another he was going to a party all dressed up to �meet� someone. It is painful. He was telling me he believes we are going to be together rest of our lives just a few weeks ago. Sigh.

Are you going to actually do a true NC this time? Have you blocked all his contact information? What are you doing when you start having thoughts of him?

Good morning and Happy Monday everyone! Thanks BrainHurts. Yes I blocked his number. I know I am blessed in many ways - my son, health, my career, financial position, my family, my friends, my hobbies... and I know that I should be counting my blessings. My head and heart do not sync all the time, unfortunately, and this past weekend was one of those that they were going opposite directions . But I will get there.

Was counting your blessings recommended somewhere? I think what Dr. Harley usually recommends is to put something in your schedule every day that you look forward to (while making sure you've removed triggers that make you think of him).

Thanks Markos. No, I just know that I tend to focus too much on things that are not going well in my life, even though the rest of my life is just fine. Last week there have been several reminders (learning of my friend's stroke, other mom's loss of her teenage son, the shooting...). It's not something I just learned recently, I have always known this but perhaps I did not try hard enough to really instill this idea. As indiegirl said it, I have to 'learn' to ignore such negative feelings that are often triggered by my own fear.

Thanks for the tip about Dr. Harley's recommendation. I will start working on it!

Little journal. I am feeling the power of NC. As many had advised, the longer I stay in NC, clearly the less I think of xBF and also I even began to wonder why I stayed with him for so long, after having seen so many red flags. I won't lie, there are still mornings I wake up and feel sad and down. But It's definitely not crazy 24/7 when I stayed in contact. Also I begin to see things a little more clearly - he became so mean at the end and called me names, and that truly hurt me. But the same person was telling everyone, including myself, how great and nice I was - in fact he was telling me I am too nice that other people take advantage of me. So it is crazy to get hurt by his nasty words he threw at me when I said we would break up. I did not think he abused me, but many on this board had told me he did, even though i did not feel like it. which is so true. He abused me to the point where I started to believe his anger is triggered by my son and my behaviors..... and I was giving him an excuse each time.

I just liked the idea of 'having someone around' because I felt safer, but the truth is, my son and I were not safer with xBF. He damaged our self worth and almost brainwashed me.

OMG. What a timing. Just when I wrote the above. xBF left me a message at work asking if I had lunch already. I did not respond, then an hour later he left another message "Disregard - it was meant for someone else". Really??

It makes me upset. Sure it's possible he truly made the mistake.... but unlikely. So he is doing this to hurt me further? Because I did not respond he got mad and needed to punish me? Can't believe I fell for such an immature man....

How are you doing NC? Did you block his number or have an IM?

I blocked him on my cell. but he has my work number and email address. We used to have lunch sometime near my work, so he contacted me at work, but I am home sick today....

Bless you...hope you're feeling better by now. I don't know about the work number thing, but just mark anything that comes from him to your email as spam & that's directly where it will go. I've had to do that one before...it worked. I'll try to post on mine tomorrow when I'm in a safe place from h. He doesn't know that in spite of the fact that he put my phone on suspension, I can still use WiFi to reach out online 😂.

It's all a one day at a time thing. Got to go lock my phone in my trunk where h can't get at it & remove evidence of his verbal & financial abuse...the hook my keys to my jeans & tuck them in between my undies & jeans, under an oversized shirt so he can't get at anything important.
Take care...talk to you later,
RMW

Hi RMW. Good to hear from you. I don't think I can block numbers on my work landline. I have been feeling a lot more positive though these days. Once I went through the difficult time, I realized that this is exactly why I should transform my love life. I do not want to live like this the rest of my life. I want stability. I would like someone who is mature enough to be a partner and not a freeloader. I need someone who can control his anger and be civil.

Are you in any physical danger from your H? Can you contact any local shelter?

I was cleaning up old files, etc., and found a whole bunch of my son's letters, art work, report cards, and pictures from when he was 5 years old. 10 years ago. How time flies, and how precious these memories are! I feel so blessed to have my son. These are the moments I realize nothing else really matters. I am so happy I still have 2+ years before my son goes to college. I look forward to making more memories in the next coming years.

I was reading NED's thread, and it dawned on me - when my xBF asked how we can 'fix' our issues after he moved out, one of the things I said to him was to apologize to my son. I knew that it would not undo what he has done to my son, nor really fix anything concrete, but hearing from xBF his sincere apologies would have at least eased some of my son's pain. He has apologized to me but never to my son. He said "too much water under the bridge", but it's not that, it's his pride that stopped him from doing so. So clearly Dr. Harley would not have seen much hope in my case either. I knew that in my head, and you all have told me so, but it's another confirmation I needed. I guess I get emotional when I feel that my decision could have been wrong and maybe xBF could have transformed into a nicer person (I know I am crazy to think that's possible). Obviously none of you have seen any hope of that happening and Dr. Harley would not have even if I had a chance to seek his advice. Thinking that I did the right thing and the situation would have never improved DOES make me feel better.

Candy I remember the hardest part was to come to realize these things, and then stay in NC. You can do this hon!

Thanks NED, some days are harder than others.... I know I will be OK, and knowing that my son is much happier now reinforces the fact that we had very big problems before with xBF living with us.

Just journaling.... I have been thinking a lot as to WHY I had such emotional attachment to xBF while he was verbally abusive, had a very explosive temper, mean to my son, not open to any other opinions, and just not very generous to anyone in general at all.

When I thought of the logistics - that it takes time to meet someone new, that I do have some fond memories of us and I had to toss them again and create new ones with someone else, that I do not need to 'impress' him anymore as he knows me well, that I know who he is and do not need to learn about him from scratch again... It's mostly all about my fear of ending something I was familiar with and starting something new. Sure there were some aspects that were specific to the relationship or HIM (he is a good looking guy...... I know it sounds shallow but I always liked how he looked).... but very little on the overall scale. I do not think I ever truly respected him because he was really not a nice person, and I always had the feeling that he is the happiest when he is benefiting from other people for free (including myself).

I just read what MelodyLane posted on harrypark's thread about compatibility from Dr. Harley. Wow. Almost every single item on the list for us was incompatible. We grew up very differently (cultural difference), our intelligence is different (although he is a smart guy, type of conversation he normally has with passion was always limited to certain areas, and also I did well at school while he did not), our social values and views are quite opposite, etc. Even on the energy front, he likes to stay up till late but I did not want to do so every single weekend. He drinks a lot and I do not (I am a social drinker and he drinks quite heavily - in fact, on our first date I smelled strong alcohol from him and thought he might be alcoholic and was NOT going to continue seeing him - but he kept trying and I was sucked in).

I love how Dr. Harley's approach is not just emotional or psychological but also quite scientific to the point where you can almost quantify factors that contribute to or destroy good marriage. Definitely a lot to learn, I love it!

Do you see how lucky you are not to have married this guy?


You do know that physical attractiveness is an emotional need and that it isn't shallow at all if that is one of your needs. Have you read Dr. Harley's emotional needs?

Here you go Physical Attractiveness

Candy I think you would like yesterday's Marriage Builders radio show on complaints in marriage and compatibility. It's on replay until noon CST today. I thought it was intersting how they talked about compatibility is built by responding to complaints.

Aww, thanks for sending the link Brain, and this made me feel so much better.... as I have been judged so to speak.... or been told being 'stupid' to care about guys' looks in the past.

Thanks for the info NED, these are blocked and can't listen to at work, is there any way I can listen to it later at home?

Yes I have the app on my phone.

Hi, just returned from vacation with my son and saw your response NED, thanks, I will give that a try.

Some update: I met someone just recently who is almost 180 degree opposite of my xBF. They are same age, but I am amazed at how different their maturity levels are. At this point, we are not dating, we just met twice face to face, but he is very into me and wants to have a relationship with me, which is very flattering but also a bit scary. I have been thinking why I am hesitant to jump in - from what I can tell, and based on some background check I did on him - he is very kind, warm, reliable, emotionally stable, considerate, hyper intelligent, loving, caring, extremely successful, romantic to the core, and shares many similar interests with me. And... he is not a yeller! Even though that's his self claim, I do believe that based on how he speaks to people around him in general. He is humble too. I think I am scared because he seems 'too good to be true'. I was with xBF for 5 years, and maybe my normal sense has been damaged or numbed? Whatever it is, strangely, the more he tries to close this gap between the levels of our romantic feelings, the more I am missing my xBF. It is very bizarre. What's more bizarre is, that xBF has been trying to win me back - he sent roses to my house the other day. Maybe he is sensing that I am moving on and wants to get me back.

I do not wish to take him back, but I am missing him. I don't know what to do with these conflict emotions. More importantly, why do I feel so insecure about the new guy? It's not even a comparison between my xBF and him - maturity level, emotional stability, kindness, compassion, generosity, love for own family and friends, sense of responsibility, etc., etc. So why am I getting cold feet? I don't understand. He seems like a wonderful person, and that very positive trait itself is scaring me. I even told him honestly that he seems too perfect and I am a bit intimidated since there isn't much I can contribute to the equation, to which he laughed kindly and said he has many flaws.

My self worth got so low that I do not feel comfortable with 'good' guys??

Meeting twice and expecting a relationship is too fast. I know it�s a pain to be out there so to speak and you want that stability already but if you�re meant to be then take your time and keep dating others so you have a better point of comparison than xbf. Anyone would look good right away next to him.

Let your self worth get back to normal. You know how we are, your feelings will come to early not too late.

So I need others' inputs on this guy. He is 180 degree different from my xBF from the emotional stability and maturity standpoints. He is not a yeller and just does not have AO. He is always positive. He is extremely successful - frankly, I am sure many women would throw themselves at him simply based on his enormous earnings power, but on top of it, he is a nice guy. Really nice guy.

Here is my struggle, however. He calls and texts me ALL THE TIME. Initially I thought it was nice, but it is getting too much. He wants to hear my voice, ok, so I call him, but it is never a 5 minute call. He likes to talk. He talks about anything and everything - which is fine when we have a plenty of time, say on weekends or at night. But he won't stop unless I tell him I need to go. And if I say I need to go take care of XYZ, he would say "OK, call me when you are done" or "I will call you later". If we talk again on the phone, it becomes another long chat and it is hard for me to get out. For example, he just left for vacation this afternoon with his daughter. I woke up this morning to 10 text messages from him. Then he called me (I was in a meeting and missed it). I texted him back wishing him a safe and fun trip - told him that I was in a meeting and would be in another so would not be able to talk. He texted me back, and then called me on my cell again, which again I could not take because I was in another meeting. He then called my office phone. Then he left me another text. I replied by text. Then he called me again an hour later.... It just never ends!

Sometimes I want to say these phone calls and textings are too much for me, at least for now given where we are (as far as I am concerned, we are not BF/GF yet and he shares the same view but he has been asking me to be his GF). But I am afraid I will hurt his feelings. He constantly asks me if "I think of him before going to bed and when I wake up", which I do not..... yet..... but I cannot say so. He says he feels the 'magic' about 'us' and that he is 'certain' that is how I feel too. He also wants to see me A LOT. Even when I say I am busy in the evening after work, he would say he would drive for 1+ hour just to have a cup of coffee with me. I told him to not do that, and he sounded very disappointed.

Only if he backs off a bit.... I can see myself falling in love with him. He has all the traits I love and respect.... except for his neediness. Am I wrong how I view this? Can we still apply Dr. Harley's principle? Am I just getting cold feet, or are there actually any red flags? I am so confused.

Hi CandyCrusher,

First off, I'm glad that you are meeting some nice people, in contrast to your past experiences with xBF. But reading your comments about "nice guy", yes he is exhibiting what appears to me to be very needy behavior. Hey who knows, maybe you have met his ENs so quickly that he has in fact fallen for you. As many told you here, though, you might want to proceed at a much slower pace. Remember, *many* men would appear to be huge improvements over the freeloader you were with for so many years. If it were me, I would want to be cautious about the rebound effect, and getting serious with someone too quickly.

I'll let the ladies here reply with their opinions, but I suspect that for most women, a man acting needy is a turnoff. I think your concern about this is not atypical. What is his background? Is he divorced or recently out of a long term relationship? I wonder if he's recently out of a bad relationship, and if you're a contrast to his xGF or xW, it might account for why he seems to have fallen so quickly for you. Then again, maybe you're just a great catch! Remember what we told you before, you deserve much better than what you had. Raise that bar, and keep it high!

Have you dated any other men? As in Dr. Harley's 30-date recommendation, by not committing to a relationship with someone too soon and dating a number of people, you will be better able to compare the qualities (or faults!) of the people you date. Also, from reading some threads about dating on this forum, by dating a number of different people, you gain valuable insight into YOUR emotional needs, and what YOU need in a future serious relationship.

All the best!

With that said, I'm no expert at dating. I'll be getting back into the dating world in the next few months, after a recent divorce from a marriage of 23 years. I haven't dated since 1991!!

A lot has changed since then. For one, texting didn't exist, even email and cellphones were rare for most people. I text/email/phone a bit (I work in IT, so I'm no luddite), but I suspect most people do so FAR more than I do. I guess what I'm getting at, is I'm ignorant of social etiquette and norms regarding texting/communicating with the opposite sex in the modern era.

When I was dating, it was courtesy to call the day after a date. But in this era of instant & ubiquitous communication? Do I text later that day, or is next day still acceptable? Will women think I'm aloof if I don't text the same day, or will they find it clingy if I do? DD1 recently asked me if I plan to start dating soon, and jokingly commented "remember, after a date you have to text her later, don't be a jerk". But she's 17, her generation is glued to the smartphone. Is the etiquette different for someone my age? (49)

As you can see, I've been giving this some thought.

Dr Harley advises dating 30 different people. This is not because the 30th will be The One but because dating lots of different people gives you perspective. A bad relationship leaves you with terrible self esteem. It is only once you start dating (and flirting of course) that you become alive again so the process matters as much as the result.

You also have to prevent yourself from getting serious quickly, very easy to make that mistake if you have just come out of a long term relationship. Date for 6 months as a freeloader (meaning you date others too). If things are still great, date for a further 6 months as a renter (meaning you agree to date exclusively). By the end of a year, you will hopefully have spent enough time with one another that you know whether you wish to become a buyer.

There should be no 'if onlys'. Mr Right needs to be perfect. Don't be tempted to compromise. The tiniest red flag at the freeloader stage will eventually become a relationship killer. I'm seeing at least one here.

It's not possible to be wrong about what you dislike.

And you dislike being exhausted by the exhausting man.

Personally I'd run. I absolutely hate nice guys. And I mean Nice GuysTM who are selling it like freaking snake oil.

For a few reasons:
1) They treat you and hang off you like you you're a teddy bear who has no life of her own. They talk AT you. A girlfriend is not a pacifier.
2) They're bad at reading cues like glazed eyes and non reciprocal language on the gooiness. Because you're just a teddy bear who's supposed to have glazed eyes duh.
3) Its a hard sell tactic. Not giving you time to think, using hyperbole, pressuring you to buy on the spot. Implying you're rude and ungrateful for missing out on this 'great deal'.

Personally I wouldn't bother with anything other than 'Its not working out for me, we seem on different pages'

If you want to give it one more shot I'd say 'I'm actually just looking to casually date more than one person. I'm not up for discussions about feelings and I'm not up for daily phone calls or texts. I generally only want contact about weekly dates. I really enjoy the ones we're having and I enjoy taking my time. If that's not what you're looking for I understand.

Getting too serious very quickly in a pushy way is actually one of the early warning signs of abusive relationships.

Thanks abrrba, LW, and IG... I needed some validation. I think I do not want to lose him, as he is truly a nice guy and someone I can be attracted to. In the past, I dated some 'nice' guys but I was doing so with my head and not with my heart (I was never really attracted to them).

I do not have any complaints about this new guy, other than that he seems a bit too needy. As you pointed out, abrrba, it is a turn off for me..... if I do not speak to him for a while (only a few hours in this case, lol), I can think of him fondly, yet when I see 20 text messages here and there.... plus all his phone calls and emails, I begin to feel suffocating. I tried to let him know in a nice way, but he simply asked if I do not miss him - I could not say NO to that...

He sent me several pictures from his vacation with another 6 text messages this morning. One of which was asking me to go on a trip with him next time. He says "that must be so awesome, don't you agree - I'm sure we will feel that we still do not have enough time..." I texted him back saying that I would not go on a trip with him because I am not ready yet.... COURAGE! He has not got back to me.....

Well, if he is looking for someone to be on board with him right away at the same fast speed.... and if my answer 'killed' it, then I guess it just means he was not right for me.

Candy I would just do some more window shopping

Thanks IG. I was able to tell him (COURAGE #2!) I was feeling overwhelmed with all the texts and calls and that I would prefer less. I felt horrible saying that but figured it's better now than later to address this. If it does not get resolved, then I can minimize my loss so to speak. He said he understands and stopped texting and calling me over excessively. In the meantime, you are right, I should just window shop to find out what is out there and what is really I am looking for.

Just some update: he has been giving me some space, which has been wonderful. I do not have to fear the 20+ texts or several calls throughout the day. He also wanted to see me each week, every weekend, for both days, and I began to feel that he is putting me under his surveillance. I still need my alone time and time with my girl friends. I mentioned that to him as well - he said that is fine, we can meet less.

Then I feel guilty. I feel like a horrible person saying that to him. And I do not like feeling guilty and/or end up doing things out of guilt... Besides, the fact now I do not have to text / call / get together with him all the time gives me this much relief..... there is something wrong with THAT.

I think I was just in love with the idea of being with someone who is near perfect. He looks great and perfect on the paper. He absolutely adores me and treats me like a princess. But I am not falling for him. It's been a month and a half, and by now, I should at least feel a bit more excited about him, especially given that he is the dream-come-true Prince Charming. I do not know why I am not deeply attracted to him. I don't understand why I am not falling for him. But I do not look forward to seeing him - I realized that. I may, a little bit, but not whole a lot. Maybe I was trying to prove to the world and myself that I could find someone who is great by anyone's standard. I thought I would naturally fall in love with him if he was perfect. I think I am going to let him know that I am not really falling for him and it's not fair that I keep dragging this out. It's going to be an unpleasant task. Sigh.

Candy, I'm glad that you speak up for what you need, even when that feels new and different to you. After what you've been through, it's a good sign when you're growing so much it makes you think twice, what do you really want? You deserve to check twice with yourself!

Maybe part of why you were not falling for him was the way he was acting, making you feel guilty, was making withdrawals for you? How did your talk go?

Gah! Away with him. Candy you dont have talk yourself into liking anybody and you certainly dont have to feel guilty!

It's been a while since last I checked in. Somehow I was not able to get in for a long time.

Thanks NED and indiegirl. I broke up with him. It was pretty hard to do, because he did not do anything wrong to deserve any hurt, but I began to feel like it was a chore to go see him, and as you said, indiegirl, I was trying to force myself to like him.

Hopefully I am learning to speak up for myself and also to stop (or go back) if I felt it was not right. In my previous relationships, I hardly did neither....

I hope, however, that I am not subconsciously looking for a perfect guy...... who does not exist.

It is really great to hear from you!

Hi Candy_Crushed, it was so nice to hear that in spite of your struggles things are going better for you. I've continued to work on explaining to H that I have needs too...you can imagine how far that went. I'm still praying & looking for the open door God provides for me to get out.

Now, back to you. How did you manage to get back out there in life? How many female friends do you have to rely on? (I'm struggling to find safe female friends in this small town) And how did you become friends with them?

Glad you decided to stick to window shopping for a while. Sounds like the safest choice any woman could make.
If you can, let me hear from you soon. It feels good to see you making progress. It gives me hope that it truly is possible!

Take care!!
RMW

That's great! Does he understand your needs and try to meet them?




It's been a bit of a roller coaster ride. Not as bad as when I was going through divorce or last Sep when my long-term BF moved out, though. I have a busy lifestyle naturally, between my demanding career, long commute, my son's activities, my hobbies, etc. Being busy certainly helps. Still, sometimes when I have a pocket of free time, some sort of loneliness and fear of unknown can sneak up on me.... then I try to write a journal. Writing helps me calm down tremendously.

As for my friends - I have many friends, many of them through my hobbies, but I also have some very close family friends. I am by nature a home buddy, and often I feel like staying in, but I force myself to go out with my friends when they invite me as much as I can. And usually I always end up being glad that I went out. When you stay home alone in the evening, that is when you tend to feel sorry for yourself So I try to avoid those moments. Can you get in touch with your old friends via SNS or something? I have many whom I cannot get together with due to distance but still chat every once in a while, to catch up. We all go through some kinds of hurt in life - it helps to know that we are not the only ones who are facing tough time. To me, when I hear all the tragedies on news, it's a great reminder that I am wasting my time worrying about my romantic life..... so trivial compared to much more important aspect of my life (like my son and my loved ones� well being)!

Do update us on your progress�. We all can learn from each other. Hugs.

I really don't think he does understand them - not,that I believe he focuses on trying at the moment. I can explain repeatedly, but as long as I give in & give him sf, it's back to square one.

I'm using my time to focus on healing & building my relationship with God even closer and hoping for enough healing from my issues that I can get a job & just support myself.

I don't know how to reach him. I've stopped love busters, even though he hasn't, and I've been meeting his other emotional needs. It's hard enough to control resentment on those, but I remind myself that I need the other things too, not for romance, but for day to day life - my relationship with God helped me realize this. So I can handle that, I'm just hoping there is a breakthrough on a job where I can support myself 100%, or God finally brings him to a point that he sees his own faults, not just others.

Haven't stopped looking for a way to support myself & building self confidence in that area. Guess when I make it to where God knows I'm ready on that part, the door will open. Until then I survive the best I can - and keep marching on.

RMW

RMW, good to hear from you. So is your plan to file for divorce once you get a job?

I still need to go talk to a lawyer & find out exactly what the laws are in this state. They've changed over the past few years and I don't know what I will have to give if I end up making a job that is more productive than him. He gets paid cash from hus cab driving so there is no proof of anything he makes other than what he deposits into the bank.
Generally, with his personality type, it's better to just let them file. If I can land a good job & find an apartment far enough away & move my belongings out while he is gone, I will be safer.
Like I said, I need to get out to see a particular lawyer & let them know who he will use as an attorney as well. He has the best, but most crooked lawyer there is in these surroundings. His lawyer has discouraged him from divorcing me, so there must be a reason.
I had planned to go this week, but after missing the signs that a seizure could be on its way, I had one a couple of mornings ago - bad one. My body is still recovering from it. I still can't speak well from the damage to my tongue, and walking is a chore. Everything hurts. Plus I will have to have a divorce lawyer who will allow a free consult. I do not have the money to even visit a lawyer with consult fees. He does. All I can do is hunt, see what is available, and pray for guidance from God and wisdom from those around me. I believe there will be a way, even if at no other time, when God decides it's time. Recently, He has provided for me even when the H didn't. I haven't stopped looking, but until the opportunity is there I can't "force" it to be there.
But I haven't given up, on being free. "Waiting" is the hard part - and just like Dr. Harley told me, don't let him know anything is going on until it's too late.
RMW

You have a lot on your plate. Do take care of yourself. Do you have money to go see a doctor? You are still covered under your H's insurance right? Take advantage of that and do check yourself out now while you can. Once you get a job and secure a place of your own, you will be so much closer to your freedom. It is weird that your H's lawyer discouraged him from divorcing, I agree, there must be a reason. Well he can hide a lot of things unfortunately for getting paid in cash, but be sure to get his tax return, bank statements, credit card statements, phone records, etc. Often you can piece them together in case he is hiding any assets.

Hi all - I have nothing really new (tangible stuff) to post, but still have lots of emotional baggages I need to sort through. I have met some new people through work, through friends, etc., and have been asked on a date by a few guys. The guy I dated for a couple of months (the great guy talked about - one I could not feel very exited about) still sends me texts here and there, and indicates that he is still into me.

All of these guys, at least from what I can tell, have far better temper than my ex BF. My xBF was also cheap and a user. Those guys I have met do not appear that way. Intellectually, probably these new guys are better match than xBF.

Still I miss him. I just miss him. He was mean to my child. That should have been enough for me to hate him but I can't. Not sure why.