Hi, I am new here and looking for some advice and direction on what I should do.

I am not married but I was engaged, we had been together 11 and half years, in February this year something didn't feel right in our relationship and I said to my partner that I couldn't explain it but I didn't feel close to him, usually he tells me I am being silly but he told me the same. He told me that he felt like his feelings were starting to change towards me but when I asked him why and for how long he couldn't really give me an answer. I wouldn't say we were perfect however we always seemed very happy and in love and we had recently come back from holiday and everything seemed normal to me. We had a chat and he said that he wanted to try and didn't want to waste 11 and half years together, at this point I never suspected anything especially an affair due to the fact that his mum had an affair when he was younger and it destroyed the family and he was always anti-affair. We tried for another 4-5 weeks and in this time I would have a good day with him at the weekend but then he would tell me that he had to work the other day, I believed this as I knew how busy he was, he has a very demanding job. As the weeks went by he seemed to distance himself further from me and it eventually ended with us splitting up, he then gave me the speech that he loved me but wasn't in love with me anymore he just saw me as a friend. He also told me that he felt like he had lost his independence and other reasons but they didn't really add up and wouldn't be enough to split us up. I tried to get him to change his mind but he is very stubborn and I couldn't get through to him.

That same week we started to get some things sorted in the house as he said he wanted to sell it and he said I could keep all the money from the sale of the house. We split up on the Monday and by the Sunday he started to pack up his things and he moved out. I still never suspected anything. He told me has was going to live back closer to his family, his job requires him to be in two locations and his family are closer to the other location. However when I spoke to his Mum on the phone she told me that he had said that he needed to be at the one nearest to me so I thought why would he lie. He also told me to delete him from the find my friends app on my iPhone as he said it would drive me crazy but because he told me this I decided not to. The week after we split he told me he had to go away and this all seemed to add up and was where he said he was going to be, the day he got back he came to see me and to get some more of his things I asked him if he would consider us just having time apart and seeing how he felt in a few months he said that he didn't want this and that he was happy on his own and wanted to meet new people. I then tracked him when he left and he went to work but then later he was at a woman he works closely with at her house, I thought maybe she is just being a good friend but he was there all night, and then the following two nights. I saw him on the Monday and I didn't tell him I knew where he was but I asked him if he was having an affair with her he told me that I should know better than that and that he would never do that to me but he seemed quite angry that I had asked him. I then deleted the app as it was driving me crazy. But then everything started to add up and I had a long list of reasons why I thought he was having an affair. I feel stupid for not realising at the time but not in a million years would I have thought he would leave me for her. She is about 10 years older than him, two children to different Dads due to leaving her first husband and having an affair with her second. He has never shown any interest in her, she is not his type and has often been disappointed with her behaviour at work but in November last year she got a job that required them working more closely together. I also know her and have confided personal issues with her and I feel like I have helped her take him from me.

In May he was going on a family holiday and the weekend before he went he came to help me at the house as there is some decorating we need to do before we sell. When I have been with him its been really hard for me but I have always tried to be myself around him, I wrote him a letter telling him how I felt, it wasn't a begging letter and he started to cry and he gave me a hug and when I tried to pull away it felt like he didn't want to let go. I was hoping time away with his family would make him reconsider but it didn't. Two weeks later he came to see me and he said that he had something to tell me and that he met someone, I said I already know you are having an affair with her. He said he hasn't but she is the person he is dating and that they had been dating for 6 weeks, I didn't believe him, I told him why I thought he was having an affair and he said he could understand why I thought it but he wasn't. He seemed to be honest about a physical affair but its like he doesn't realise its been an emotional one. I asked where her husband was and he said that they are getting a divorce and split around the same time that we did... what a coincidence!! He then told me that we weren't happy, we shouldn't have got engaged etc... He told me that he was happy but I don't know if he was trying to convince me or himself. He also said that she didn't like him spending time with me as she is worried he will come back to me, so they already have trust issues! I saw him a week later and I got a bit upset and I said that our relationship changed when she started working with him, he didn't disagree and he cried.

About a month ago he came again to help me with the house, he seems to be the one dragging it out and I don't really want to move so I haven't been pushing it. I was getting ready to go out as I was having a leaving meal with work (I lost my job because of all of this) and he wouldn't look at me when I was all dressed up, he was talking to me but looking at the wall. When he eventually did he said that he had bought me some food which I thought was strange. When I was out he text to say he had gone as he was feeling hot and bothered and that he would be in touch. I never heard from him for just over a month and he text me a couple of days ago to say that he is really busy at work for the next two months and that he won't be able to help me. I said that I needed to speak with him regarding the house as I would now like to keep it but said it would be best to talk in person. He said can I call you instead as I am really busy and I said no I would rather see him, he text back saying he could see me yesterday, I agreed but then cancelled in the morning as I couldn't face seeing him. But he couldn't have been that busy??!!

In order for me to keep the house I want to ask him if he can support me a bit longer financially until I get myself sorted but I don't know if he will agree and what sort of influence she has over him. I really want him back and don't know what to do, I have been told that I need to make him feel like he is losing me but I don't know how as we are not married. I am quite worried about him and this really is out of character for him. If he told me he felt like he had lost his independence with me how is he going to cope with two children and he has never wanted kids. I am feeling really lost, I never thought this would happen, feels like a bad dream. Can anyone help with what I should do???

Hi feelinglost, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for your pain in the breakup of your relationship. I would strongly suggest that you do everything to formally end this relationship and move forward. You are hurting yourself tremendously by trying to get him back. Hanging around as you are makes you look very unattractive to him and makes it much less likely he will ever come back. The faster you shut this off, the sooner you will feel better. You have nothing to lose with this approach and everything to gain.

Feelinglost, I agree with Melody Lane. There's very little to recover here. The recovery plans can work when there is a family/formal commitment to dissolve and the wayward has a lot to lose. These things can make recovery worth everyone's while.



He's been historically very disrespectful to you as well (though I totally believe you had his love) and you will be quicker finding someone better than trying a futile attempt at recovering his love for two years, then a further two years at dual effort recovery (if it were possible which i don't think it is at all on any time scale). It wasn't possible in my case either; I was married ten years, but without children there was nothing to motivate his sense of morality.

Dr H has told women in this situation it is better to move on. To quote him 'if she were my daughter I wouldn't talk about what's best for the relationship; I'd say 'what's best for you right now?' and I totally agree. I have a better relationship today even though my marriage was good. Better than good exists. Better than selfish exists. There are men who would not do this even when the relationship is in dire straits.

Live in couples have legal rights so do look into that. If possible let the lawyers handle it and block him on your phone/email/social media. His prevaricating nonsense will take you under if you let him.

Thank you for your reply. I am trying my best to move forward, I am just finding it difficult to accept what has happened and don't feel ready to give up on him. I have never begged for him to come back and I only ever text him with regards to the house. When he wouldn't look at me that day I wasn't sure if his feelings were starting to re-appear for me and thats why I never heard from him for a month? Or maybe she had noticed something and stopped him seeing me. I just worry about my future without him in it, we shared all the same interests and dreams and now they have gone. We used to talk about growing old together and now he just says I am not in his future anymore. I don't know how to move on knowing that one day he may come back

The important thing to accept is that he has moved on and to move on with your life. That is his right. And competing with the OW to get him back makes it much less likely you will even reconcile. It tears you down emotionally and makes you look very unattractive. If you will end all contact with him and move on, you will feel much better, much faster. Yes, that will be hard at first, but it will get easier and easier after a couple of weeks. You will feel 1000% better.

Thank you, I only need to see him two more times now to speak to him about me keeping the house and then to get some documents signed and then I won't contact him after that. I just can't imagine never seeing him again

Feelinglost you must be strong. If you carry on seeing him, you will fill in all the gaps in this relationship that she can't cover. She sounds like a very typical 'affair down' scenario and it's obvious that you better meet his need for PA and goodness knows what else. It is possible for him to stay with her for DECADES while you are filling in the gaps. Even with the inevitable distrust cheaters have for each other. All he has to do is nip round to see you every month or and reassure himself that a beautiful and kind woman still has time for him and he'll go back to her totally refreshed.

That isn't why we give this advice though; any more than three weeks contact with an unremorseful cheat can put you into serious depression/mental breakdowns. You've already lost your job.


Same deal in my case; she was a good friend. She came through the back door to stab you between the shoulder blades and HE let her in.

Save your concern for her betrayed husband (who should be notified and sent any evidence along with your contact details by the way).

I know you are worried about him and miss him. OF COURSE you are after 11 years. You aren't a robot. But the fact remains you can't go down into the sinking sand too.

No contact cures the pain. You won't know yourself in three weeks (it takes longer than that of course but you'll be able to eat/sleep/laugh/function).

I have tried to find her husband but I all I know he has moved out of the area. I am trying to be strong, I have been told that I look a lot happier. I have had 3 weeks without work now and I don't think it has done me any good as I have had too much time to think, I start a new job tomorrow so I am hoping it will lead to better things for me. I will get all the house stuff wrapped up with him and then no more contact. Most of the contact has only been about bill payments as he is covering all of these, this is the only thing he has been good with.

eeek. double check those finances! now is not the time to trust him.

Wherever possible leave documents etc with a neutral third party. You don't need to watch him sign stuff.

Keeping busy is a good idea. pack your weekends with supportive folks and fun plans.

You in the UK?

I have been careful with regards to finances. The solicitor said that they will sort out getting him to sign the documents so I don't need to be there for that.

Yes I am in the UK.

Have you seen this Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Thank you for this, it�s seems like he is between a freeloader and renter and I am a buyer

I really recommend the book. If you're a buyer (obvious that you are btw) then you are a candidate for an awesome relationship. But buyers can be quite seriously disadvantaged in relationships with renters and freeloaders. You keep putting in efforts not equal to the other persons; every failure to be invested on their part feels like more effort required on yours.

Thank you, I will have a look at the book. I feel like he maybe was a buyer at one point but not anymore.

You can change attitudes; i.e. everyone is a freeloader on a first date.

He rang the me the other day to talk about the house, he is happy for me to keep it and said he will support me for a bit longer financially. I am going to a solicitors to get an agreement drawn up about me keeping the house so he cant come after me in the future. I sensed on the phone that he doesn�t seem happy but I can�t be sure, he just says he is busy with work all the time. I got a bit upset on the phone and told him that I missed him and that its not the same without him. I didn�t want to but my emotions just took over. I also said to him that I need to see him in person as I need closure, I said I just want the truth now and no more lies so he has agreed to come and see me. Hopefully after this I can focus on moving on properly. I do want him back in my life, I feel like this has just been a wake up call that we needed and I feel like this would make us closer. I just feel like he is a good person deep down but he has made a massive mistake and I am willing to forgive him. I am finding it hard to let go but I also feel like he is clinging to me in the background.

I cannot tell if you want marriagebuilders advice? If you want to sacrifice yourself on the altar of forgiveness because you dont want to go through withdrawal, that's your call. He can have her as well as you and this seems like something that you are all very keen on, so long as he throws you an occasional crumb. As a consenting adult there's nothing we can do to stop you.

Good luck with all that.

I thought this was a place to share how we feel. I am struggling with how I feel at the moment. I don't want him to have her and me but I don't have anyone else to help me with the house or I will be homeless. I do feel like I have a right to know why he has had an affair. I'm only human to miss someone, I didn't expect this to happen like a lot of other people on here and I am sure they have all been on an emotional rollercoaster

It's the place to learn what to do in order to feel better.

Probably poor boundaries and entitlement.

You gave him years of your time, spend your future time wisely. In your eyes it might be a good idea to stay in the house, but the house will be a constant reminder of him. Consider moving.

People who claim they want closure, usually don't want closure, but continued contact. Real closure would be no contact and looking forward.

He seems not one bit repentant, so it would be foolish to even consider forgiving.

Well that is a grim way to get the bills paid.

But you know you're right? it's a common fear. And that's why he needs to have so many little chit chats with you 'about the house'. How many discussions are necessary to say 'so 50-50 then?' or to say 'you'll be hearing from the lawyers'. If you can't take his phone calls without dissolving into a heap of emotions (which, yes, is human) then STOP TAKING HIS CALLS before you do anything else to embarrass your future self.

He calls you (with not a word of remorse, mind) to make you feel fear about doing this without him and his money. Wanders by like a stray cat expecting something for nothing. Actually offers to pay you money (!!) his girlfriend probably wont allow.

You have more courage than this.

(Btw, many of us had to support a double income household with a single or no income but we refused to do so the way you are suggesting. My divorce was far, far more expensive than I would have believed and yet I was better off financially than I'd ever been because I made better decisions without him. I am even more well off now.)


No it is a place of plans. A failure to plan is a plan to fail. A married woman in your position would be encouraged to plan B; no contact at all, even to discuss legalities to prevent harm to her mental health and appearing desperate to a cake-eating man. She would be encouraged to divorce to protect her finances from an unreliable man.

You are not married and you have lived together for a long time. Your plan should be to consider why you are offering forgiveness to someone who couldn't even get to the altar.

I would take a look at:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5068a_qa.html

But of course he has no interest in giving you what you need. So you are facing the basic question that brings a lot of people to this site: "What can I do when I need something from someone and they aren't willing to meet my need?"

Of course, you can't control anybody.

You can knock yourself out trying, though, as a lot of people on this site have done. Years later you are likely to wish you hadn't wasted the time and effort.

A successfully married man who used to be on this forum used to give me a lot of help and became a sort of mentor to me a few years ago. Often times when we would talk he would hear me describe my problem and then say "So what are you going to do about it?" That turned out to be a fantastic question! After he'd asked it a few dozen times I learned to start thinking about what I could do about my marriage problems instead of just getting mired down and depressed by them.

So - you need this guy to give you closure, but he's not going to do that. So I'd like to ask the same question: what are you going to do about it? Any ideas?


Dr. Harley has a great recovery plan to help with that. It is called "Plan B." It probably needs to be adapted slightly to fit your situation, but I think it would work great.

I agree with markos and think Plan B (modified to your situation) is an excellent idea. How to Plan B Correctly

What adaptations did you two have in mind? I was mulling over something similar because I don't think he is a safe person to communicate with unless he were to do something like both quit his job AND voluntarily expose his part in the affair to the betrayed husband. Until then, he's just a Venus flytrap trying to triangulate his two women again.

If he were to do those things himself without prompting, maybe. Perhaps at the natural end of the affair.

Buuuuut I'm hesitant to recommend someone set 'I will talk to you when...' conditions or standards for someone who has lived with you a long time without marrying you. Add in the cheating before the planned marriage, and setting standards for potentially resuming things start getting ridiculously like beating a dead horse.

Are we talking a simple Plan No Contact, because people in FLs situation would feel a lot better if they cut off the person manipulating them?

I have considered moving but I am happy to stay at the house. The memories are starting to fade and I am looking forward to redecorating and making it my own. It is also a lot better with regards to work for me as well.

I didn�t see closure as continued contact, I just wanted to know why he has done this.

Yes you need to go no contact with him and then you will start to feel so much better.

Yeah to redocorating; I did this too. If you need financial support keeping it, then only rely on what a solicitor can get you. Anything he verbally promises is 100% not going to happen.



Lots of people ask and they always get the same set of limited answers.


There is absolutely no benefit in asking a proven liar to tell you the truth.

People have affairs for one reason only; they like it and have no boundaries around the opposite sex.

Many former waywards on this board (who said all of the usual lies) later admit that they just got selfish.

No matter what his answer is, be prepared it will not be a satisfying answer and it is will not lessen the pain. If you still want the answer, get it over with as quick as possible. Prepare for disappointment.

It would most probably be better if you didn't, who needs more pain?

Yep. Five second conversation = What? One, two weeks worth of crying in the shower? Three weeks of sleepless nights?


Not worth it.

Yes, we know the answer to this question here, and it's a lot safer to ask and get the answer here than it is to subject yourself to someone who is painful just to have any contact at all with!!

Mainly I was thinking to dispense with any sort of Plan B letter.

Hi, it has been a while since I last posted. I am really struggling at the moment and feel like I need to reach out to him, I won�t but I don�t know how to get rid of this feeling? Everything feels like it is catching up with me now, I was feeling ok but feel like everything is going downhill now.

Find something really fun and enjoyable to replace it with. Do you have the RC inventory, it�s full of great ideas. Do you have a best friend or family member you can make plans with?

I haven�t seen the RC inventory, I will have a look thank you. I�ve been trying to keep busy with friends and family. It�s just when I am at home on my own I struggle. I have been getting bad chest pains but the doctor thinks it is anxiety. I feel as more time passes the worse I feel.