Marriage Builders®
Posted By: Srw Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 02:53 AM
Will try to make this clear, and concise, unfortunately not a short story! Be prepared to read deep

Background info: Married for about 7 months, only 1.5 of those months were before her basic training. I saw her graduate, she came home on leave for about a month as well. She's active duty in England, I'm in the states on the waiting list to join.

We have been totally in love in every way. Though I have let my emotions and instincts and some past baggage guide me into chipping away at her love bank. It's like that analogy of the slow drip from a bucket over a fire. Anything from her not allowed to converse with guys, have their numbers, add them on Facebook, you get the idea. The tricky part is she falsely agreed to this lifestyle even stating she prefers it bc guys are scum. Turns out she was just trying to make me happy and in turn sacrifice her own individuality. So we are going along for months like everything is A-ok while she slowly dies and perhaps resents me inside. she has had male friends in the past and totally kept it at that, I was just wrong to keep nagging about it bc my mistrust.

So anyway she gets overseas, and things slowly change. She states how hard it is to get around and accomplish normal things without a car, and doesn't want to buy a car til I get there. (Mind you it could be 6 months before I'm even there). She states how she has no friends and her female roommate is kind of a you know what and is just plain old lonely and sad. We talked about being strong and overcoming the distance and time, and still were in love, real strong as always. Well she tells me of stories of guys trying to ask her to do things like go eat or go for drives around the base area. She denied them at first and me being controlling I'm like yeah good job! Keep it up! And she's falsely going along with that ideal.

Soon enough she either gets fed up or something, and starts hanging out with these two guys, they are single and 18-19. Of course my wife is hot and I'm freaking out, like obviously there has to be an alt. motive for these young military guys to be taking a married girl out for fun, this cannot be a just friends or neighborly good deed kind of scenario. After a couple hangouts she sees my sadness and promises not to see them again bc she does not want to hurt me. Next week, she says hey I have to tell you I was leaving breakfast and I ran into the one guy, he said he was dog sitting and asked if I wanted to see the puppy, so I went. I lost my cool,bc the whole promise she made to not see them, even if the promise felt forced for her, to please me. I got over it kind of. She states that they are normal respectful and know the boundaries. I'm like yeah until they catch you in a vulnerable moment and move in. She's getting fed up with me saying these littles snotty things. I act like I'm ok and then I treat her like she can't handle herself.

Next thing you know, it went from little food trips and shopping here and there, to the promise, to the puppy, and then she says well this weekend I heard there's a good place to meet girl friends by my dorm and I'm gonna go hangout and make friends. I'm like ok sounds good! Turns out she really just hung out with those guys, and did in turn meet a girl. Which made it that double date type guy girl guy girl. I flipped out bc of that. Especially because they drank til midnight and when she got home she halfway said goodnight of our nightly routine and passed out, apologized in the morning, but said she was going on a long trip with them to a nearing city, the whole gang. Me being controlling I'm thinking damnit.. But wished her a good time. She came back saying hey we are all gonna hang out again like last night but I prob won't drink. Well... She was out til 3am and did in fact drink, she explained to me where she was the whole time. At a lounge/food area for a while, and then at a bar where they had karaoke on base. She said it was most,y co workers, those guys, and tons of people. Wasn't like she was in one room with one guy for hours. I still lost my mind and basic gave an ultimatum. I said if this is the kind of behavior you are going to defend and fight for your right for, then idk how long we are going to last. She (buzzed still) said I was coming at her totally wrong, was being insane, controlling, obsessive and manipulative and said she was so pissed she didn't want to talk to me, and I said something snotty about like yeah we will figure out how to end this all tomorrow like a hint at divorce,and she agreed. Well God must have graced me with knowledge over night...

I woke up realizing how absolutely insane I was, and that if we are truly in love, and I supported her, why not trust her to go out and have fun? Be happy for her she found friends when she expressed her lack of friends before. She would control any inappropriate situation and deal with it. My fear now is...has my previous fear of her getting around actually pushed her closer into doing so? I came clean with about 100 things I recognized I did wrong, ESP after reading about the love bank and everything. I wasn't being there for her emotional needs. She says if I had continued acting that way, we would not be together, so at least we know now, and we have each other still.

However, she has become what feels like an emotional divorce, she has withdrawn so much that any compliment or memory I bring up she says "yeah" or something very neutral no emotion. She states she will agree to try to fix it with me, but cannot guarantee it will actually work bc so much emotional distancing and damage has been done to her. She says it's not as simple as you just changing your jealous ways, it's that everything feels so different now and I am just unsure of everything at this point, I need time and space to decide what I want to do. Now we had such huge plans for a military life together and children soon, even talked about the kinds of meals we would be preparing together!

How do I get her to remember that feeling and passion she once had, just not too long ago? How do I remind her from across the ocean that we made our vows for a reason on our wedding day and that I can really change and be there for her?

I fear that since I've depleted her love bank so much that any positive deposit by these new guys is all it takes to steer her away. Say this weekend, she goes and drinks with them again, has a roaring good time with no heavy feelings, no arguing no jealously.. And then she has me all the way in the states like please love me again ill promise ill be good.. Cards are not in my favor as they say. She has unfriended me on some social networking, and changed all her infos from being "in love" to something depressing about "change is the only constant" her profile pictures went from pictures of us, to her posing alone in England. Still saying she's willing to work with me, she says I'm just letting you know im changing my Facebook password because you stalked my guy friends (I did) and that I'm going to add them, and also they now have my phone #. She didn't give it to them bc I didn't want her to before. Willing to do anything it takes to trust her and support her emotional needs I said ok no problem. I'm glad you have friends there. I am now being 100% genuine and supportive.

This whole business with the "yeah we can try but I can't guarantee i will actually be happy with you again" stuff is getting to me I guess is the bottom line.. And how can I be of emotional support while im so far away, I KNOW if I flew there tomorrow, we would embrace and cry together and be ok as we learned we can trust each other not to hurt each other anymore, but do I stand greater chances to lose if I choose to wait out here for basic training? Leaving her alone and vulnerable during this period of hurt and change. Any advice on how I can prove myself to her again? To get her to remember why we fell in love and that I would be a good life partner for her... Bc I feel that the happiness she feels from these guys can be all it takes to keep us distant, can be the deciding factor whether or not she comes back around to intimacy with me. Note she hasn't cheated. To my knowledge but I pretty much 99.9% doubt it. If anything it's an emotional cheat, or divorce, she couldn't confide in me anymore, can I get her to again?

Sorry this was so freakin long but it's been a horrible month because of all of this. And I want any advice or knowledge on how to do my best for this. Thanks so much for anyone reading or trying to help!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 02:04 PM
Srw, welcome to MArriage Builders. Your wife has horrendous, inappropriate boundaries around members of the opposite sex and if she hasn't cheated YET, she will soon enough. Your marriage is headed right straight for an affair as it is now.

Our Surviving an Affair forum is full of thousands of affairs that began through opposite sex friendships.

How much longer will you have to live apart? One of the biggest issues is that you live apart. It is pretty hard to sustain a marriage when you do not live together. Is there a plan to rectify that?
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 02:40 PM
Thanks for the welcome, and for responding. Yeah it's definitely hard to hear and try to accept that could be the case. As I want to believe I was just being jealous, and I need to respect her own judgement on what she feels is right. But totally see how my behavior pushed her into a situation to cheat when it wouldn't of happened had I met her emotional needs instead of pushing her away.

She is distant not sexually interested and is separating us on many levels, yet still saying she loves me, good mornings and good nights, and that we will keep trying to make it right. Seems she is setting up a life for us and a life she has with them, it's all completely separate and I'm afraid to even ask her now about what she does, as I said its ok to have male friends, and if she's in withdrawal from me, I need to be positive to her and not negative. She is keeping it private though. Changed all her passwords bc I am a"stalker" she says and since she is overseas, she probably talks to them via text or face to face hangouts at a ratio of about 60% them 40% me, if not worse than that.

As for moving there, I believe would fix it, it could be sex she is missing, that need, mixed with the feeling of me just being a nag to her while she is working hard in the military, to come home to texts from me trying to investigate her. This feels like a break up, like ones I've had with girlfriends in the past, and watching them reintegrate into feeling again, but not for you. We have no projected date for me to move there, it's all up in the air now. I planned on joining the military and then moving to her base with a join spouse program. As of now I proposed the idea of joining the recruiting center in England and moving in with her, perhaps looking into college instead, while I wait to ship out from there, by her side. She states she doesn't know if that would even be better or not, and she will think it over.

From reading this website, it's horrifying to read all the signs she is in an affair, endless denying and ridicule of me for even suggesting it. Distance emotionally and sexually. Changing of passwords and feelings she needs to keep parts of her life separate from me, bc if "I trusted her, I wouldn't need her password". And the fact that when I say how about I come there put this on hold and cater to your needs instead of this career, she reacts as if she would rather be apart, to have more space to "think it over". So her love bank, overflowing from the good times she has with others, does not want her to quit what is making her feel good right now, and if I'm the one making her feel bad, why or how could she possibly deny her new feelings? Of course she will head in the positive direction.

Besides moving there (with her agreement of course), I don't know how I can get her to see us as a married couple again, and not as a burden holding her back. Did I just get a bad egg? Maybe she will eternally see the virtues of being married as being confined and controlled? When that is not what she wants deep down. I don't know. I can barely function at work and I'm starting to lack in adequate nutrition. Of course, due to this great distance, I appear to her as fully changed to being positive, dedicated to meeting her needs, sorry for the mean things and outbursts I had, committed to our original goals and still bringing in an income. In reality I would like to lay in bed crying all day. I want to be strong for her and show her the guy she fell in love with originally. Smart, funny.,ambitious, caring, trustworthy.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 03:00 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
Thanks for the welcome, and for responding. Yeah it's definitely hard to hear and try to accept that could be the case. As I want to believe I was just being jealous, and I need to respect her own judgement on what she feels is right. But totally see how my behavior pushed her into a situation to cheat when it wouldn't of happened had I met her emotional needs instead of pushing her away.


Asking your wife to not engage in reckless behavior cannot push her into a situation to cheat. A person will obviously not cheat against her will. Your wife is engaging in marriage wrecking behavior and you have good reason to be jealous. Jealousy is a natural reaction to a threat to marriage. For example, if she ran out in the road in front of cars, wouldn't you naturally be concerned for her life? It is the same with your wife's poor boundaries around men. You can see the threat and she doesn't.

You don't have thee power to "push" your wife to cheat. If your wife uses that as an excuse, that is all it is. A committed marriage person would lose the opposite sex friendships and take steps to do anything to avoid her spouse's unhappiness.

Quote:
as I said its ok to have male friends, and if she's in withdrawal from me, I need to be positive to her and not negative. She is keeping it private though. Changed all her passwords bc I am a"stalker" she says and since she is overseas, she probably talks to them via text or face to face hangouts at a ratio of about 60% them 40% me, if not worse than that.


I am sorry to say that you probably don't have a future with this woman. First off, you can't sustain a marriage with someone you don't live with and secondly, it is clear she puts her male friends and her secret second life before you. Can you imagine having a mortgage and 3 little kids with a woman who behaved like this? It would be a nightmare.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 03:17 PM
Does it mean all instances of opposite sex friends lead to cheating? I know if I still talked to a couple of Female friends I used to have, it would never get close to affair material. And what I mean by push her into cheating, is did I close all avenues for us to communicate and support each others needs so much that she had no other choice but to seek happiness elsewhere? Our whole marriage, and dating, she has been nothing but completely open and patient with me, even while agreeing to stop talking to her past male friends, and keeping all contact strictly female, she still showed so much love for me and I was always in the most private parts of her life, always intimate.

Our last fight just blew that up, it was a time bomb ticking, and I could have defused the bomb, had I stopped disrespecting and lashing out at her, and put more trust and care into our marriage. She's only been there a month, it's been a rough transition I'm sure, losing her husband and in a foreign country!

She would keep insisting I had nothing to ever worry about, in previous weeks. I still had her Facebook password, we were expressing our love publicly on every social media site. She always was proud to wear her ring and let people know she was happily married.

I did not heed her calls and cries. So when your spouse refuses to hear you, or comfort you in any way, and instead disrespects and name calls, they have no choice bc they don't feel loved and intimate anymore. She is a good girl, going through a bad time. Partly due to me.

She's been talking a lot about babies too. Well before the detachment. Always saying she's so excited and already looking at clothes and nursery designs, I was so excited to be a father. A mortgage and 3 kids could have been amazing, had I not pushed her away. We would still be as close as ever. The biggest mistake besides being the enemy lately, is probably thinking we can survive the deployment apart. We thought we were strong enough, but she needs her husband. And we chose to stick it out apart instead, for a better future later. But she needs help now
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 03:23 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
Does it mean all instances of opposite sex friends lead to cheating? I know if I still talked to a couple of Female friends I used to have, it would never get close to affair material.



All instances of OSF do not lead to affairs, but almost all affairs began that way. And it is usually people like you that have them. You have a belief that you are immune which makes you even more vulnerable. 50-60% of marriages experience affairs and most of them are not out looking for it. It just sort of happens like a frog in boiling water.

Quote:
And what I mean by push her into cheating, is did I close all avenues for us to communicate and support each others needs so much that she had no other choice but to seek happiness elsewhere?


Of course she had choices. She made that "choice" when she married you, didn't she? Even if you met her needs PERFECTLY, she would still be vulnerable to an affair because of her poor boundaries around men. And you can't meet her needs if you don't live together anyway.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 03:42 PM
I see what you're saying, yes it's ultimately her choice, even if it is skewed by depression or a temporary drive for revenge or hatred.

How about the military couples that do make it though? And don't cheat? When they are deployed for a year without one another. How can they make it apart, or do they just suffer the lack of needs met, and wait to be reunited.

I have this feeling my controlling behavior was little by little turning her off to me, lets say when she first met those guys, I was excited for her, we would place boundaries that made sense, and perhaps she wouldn't of dive bombed into the drunken weekend she had? She stated she was so tired of being controlled she didn't care anymore and said "f it im going to hang out with my friends for once". All of our interactions about anything related to this have been horribly unhealthy, is there a way to manage that without being paranoid or controlling?
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 04:00 PM
As for right now she just got off work, we said two sentences to each other, peaceful and positive. And then she said she is going to get some food and go buy mouthwash at the store. I said how about a phone call when you get back? She said yes that's fine but I don't know when I'll be back. I'm thinking well you could probably estimate a time instead of being clueless as to how long eating and purchasing one item will be, idk, an hour? But I said ok, was only asking for 10-15 mins so I'll be here baby. And she said ok. Exchanged I love yous and she's gone. Nervous ... smirk
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 04:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
I see what you're saying, yes it's ultimately her choice, even if it is skewed by depression or a temporary drive for revenge or hatred.


Poor boundaries around the opposite sex is what leads to affairs. Lots of people can be depressed or have a desire for revenge or hate their spouses, but the reason they avoid affairs is because they have strong boundaries around the opposite sex, avoiding tempting situations.

Quote:
How about the military couples that do make it though? And don't cheat? When they are deployed for a year without one another. How can they make it apart, or do they just suffer the lack of needs met, and wait to be reunited.


Some, like my parents, have very strong boundaries. My father was very affectionate with my mother and obviously in love with her. When he was deployed to Thailand, then a year later to Vietnam, he lived "like a monk," as he put it. Many of his fellow soldiers did not and had affairs with their house girls. My mother also lived with very strong boundaries and avoided any tempting situation. Many of her fellow "waiting wives," as they were called, had affairs while their husbands were deployed.

Adultery is VERY common in the military, and in other jobs that require travel or overnights apart. Dr. Harley found that very few military marriages were happy, in the sense of having an integrated transparent blending of two people who were meeting each other's needs and avoiding love busters. The travel and deployments severely weaken a marriage. Even in good marriages, it's very difficult to meet most of the intimate emotional needs while apart. Nights apart are an invitation to an affair.

Quote:
I have this feeling my controlling behavior was little by little turning her off to me, lets say when she first met those guys, I was excited for her, we would place boundaries that made sense, and perhaps she wouldn't of dive bombed into the drunken weekend she had? She stated she was so tired of being controlled she didn't care anymore and said "f it im going to hang out with my friends for once". All of our interactions about anything related to this have been horribly unhealthy, is there a way to manage that without being paranoid or controlling?


Your wife wants to live independently and have a secret second life. She is able to accomplish this easily due to the long separation. You are not "controlling" your wife by insisting on boundaries around men. And you are not being "paranoid." You are reacting as most of us would react to this situation - with alarm.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 04:42 PM
Thanks for your input on military marriages. Yeah honestly I would love if she could find a way to be happy and fill her time with things other than drinking or hanging out with these guys. If she would put up that wall, however that wall seems to lock her up for some reason... It almost feels like she wants a loving marriage while lacking the responsibilities of one. Could be due to this deployment, the nights alone, no more hugs, kisses goodnight and smiling looking in each others eyes. With those needs unmet, she could feel trapped and hopeless from not receiving face to face affection. And having poor knowledge herself, on how to establish safe boundaries, she is just going off believing she can control her emotions and ward off potential predators, trusting in people to respect the boundaries. She still claims she would never hang out one on one. And she would always stop a potential threat and inform me. I have not caught her, as it is impossible in this situation. But she has never been able to lie.. She has the worst poker face and can't hide what's she's done. Maybe she's detached and shutting down because she has feelings that are currently building for someone else, and is concerned and hurt that this could be the end of all we built. She does not want to get close to me to spill her guts about what's going on in her head, would rather distance herself til I gave up? And she can openly have this new relationship without guilt because we "just didn't work out"

Of course it won't work out if she doesn't want it to!
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 04:56 PM
If you and your wife want this marriage to work out, the very first order of business is to find a way to live together and be together every single night. If that much can't be accomplished, your marriage is starting out on very shaky ground.

I know a lot about military marriages. My father was career military, my husband was in the military for seven years and now works with a lot of military. We have military friends and live near a military base. I've worked with military chaplains. Military marriages have a very hard time due to the long separations.

No one here will discourage you from trying to build a future with your wife, but you must find a way to live together. And you both must follow Extraordinary Precautions for life.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 06:18 PM
2 and a half hours later and she still hasn't returned from getting something to eat and buying mouth wash. Wow I sound crazy for timing her but. It doesn't take that long. She's done that before and couldnt take more than one hour. Also with her disclaimer of " I don't know when I'll be back" leads me to believe she's with him, and withholding that from me. Leaving me with the position of not being able to ask her who she was with because if I did, I would be insecure and going against what I just apologized for and wanted to work on, my jealousy. What the f***!!!!
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/17/13 06:23 PM
Yes thank you! And I have been discussing moving there with her, working on getting a visa, getting out on her orders, etc.she is responsive somewhat to the idea but granted we barely speak more than a few sentences to each other per day. If I can prove to her my "worthiness " she may turn around soon and fully commit to researching the work and talking to her commanders about putting me on the sponsor list to move there. That's all I'm trying to do now. And be loyal to what I said I'd do
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/18/13 01:35 AM
Update for all those following. The part where she left to get mouthwash and something to eat, well she came back 3 hours later openly telling me sorry and that she was with the guy ( that I believe the affair is with) at his dorm eating pizza watching tv. So 1. She didn't even go shopping and 2. She didn't go to the cafeteria. They ordered out and she hung out with him. I played it cool stating its ok and I was just hoping for 15 mins on the phone. She still wanted to, or agreed to.. We talked, my voice cracked from holding tears, she acted sympathetic and said don't be like that, we are trying. And I'm agreeing like yes I'm just so happy you're willing to work with me, I won't give up on us, and talking about other random things, we shared some laughs, we used some pet names, and at one point she hung up on me and refused to answer again because she was "too sad" hearing me like that.

I think it's to a point now where she knows what she is wrong and feels guilt over it, she knows she is not putting the effort needed to save us, and it's hurting me. She may not blame me as much now as she starts to feel like a terrible cheating wife.Though she can't stop, that addictive quality of the new affair, it's like a drug you can't say no to, and imagining now being without it, can bring more sadness.

I think this is good news. She is starting to feel maybe, starting to remember again? If she has the strength through my encouragement and endless unconditional love, she may be able to tell this new love it won't work between them, as I break down her barriers slowly but surely. Whaddya think?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/18/13 03:13 PM
Are you going to move to live with her and be home every night?
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/18/13 04:12 PM
I'm working on getting her to open back up to me and trust me. She will have to willingly add me to her orders. It's going to be up to her. she says she doesn't know if she wants that right now.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/19/13 01:16 AM
Tonight before bed she stated she really does love me still, and that this will get better.
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/19/13 02:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
Tonight before bed she stated she really does love me still, and that this will get better.


Your marriage only has a chance IF you can move and be with her and spend every night together. She would need to institute Extraordinary Precautions for the rest of her life.

Your wife is free to enjoy a secret second life while being apart from you. The longer she can indulge in this, the more difficult and precarious your position is going to become as her husband.
Posted By: markos Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/19/13 06:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
I'm working on getting her to open back up to me and trust me. She will have to willingly add me to her orders. It's going to be up to her. she says she doesn't know if she wants that right now.


Srw, can you get someone on the inside working as an advocate for you - a chaplain perhaps? Somebody who can help try to arrange it so that you are put on the orders?

Have you exposed her extramarital relationships to anybody in the military?
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/20/13 10:29 PM
I have no one on the inside helping. I suggested she see pastoral services and she said it offended her because I'm acting like she is the one who needs changing and not myself.


Bad news though well she expressed her increasingly opposite emotions after telling me we will make it. She became more distant and stopped with good mornings and I love yous. She finally admitted she felt uncomfortable because my affection was making her feel bad, because she can't return it. She regrets getting married as soon as we did and needs to do some growing up and thinking to determine if she can do this (marriage altogether). As she states she is happy now, not having to "answer to me" anymore.


Yesterday she made it clear she needs me to leave her alone bc I'm just pushing this affection and support onto her when she doesn't want it. I said I can do that, I can be quiet for now but I'm here waiting and ready to be there for you. Said my goodbye for now and she said goodbye.


I'm sure she is out drinking right now
Posted By: Gamma Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 12:53 AM
SRW,

Perhaps your marriage is over, but you still need to report this behavior to her chain of command and especially to the inspector general. These soldiers who are fooling around with a married woman have no place in our armed forces.

This will also allow you to leave with dignity having done all you can do as a man.

God Bless
Gamma

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 03:28 AM
Have you exposed?
Exposure 101
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 03:30 AM
Originally Posted By: Mortarman
Melody, here goes on the exposure part with military members.

If one or both of the infidels are members of the military, you have a GREAT asset! Why? Because it is against the law to commit adultery. And their command can and will order them to cease and desist...and me even punish them!

How do you do this? Well, each service is a little different. So, you will need to figure out which service they are a part of and then search out the corresponding agency that handles it. In the Army (and the Air Force), they have an Inspector General. The Navy/Marines should also.

The reason I say go to the IG, rather than the commander of the person's unit, is that many times, the commander might like the servicemember (SM) so they might just sweep it under the rug. That you do NOT want to happen! So, with the IG, they will go to the commander, tell him that they have this complaint...and the commander will conduct an investigation. The IG will oversee this, making sure that the commander does the right thing...and if a violation is found, that the appropriate actions/punishment happen. It will NOT be swept under the rug!

At the same time, even if ABSOLUTE proof is not found, at the very least, that commander is going order the SM to not contact your spouse...because the IG is hanging over their head. He/she will just tell them that even if nothing is going on, they are ordered not to make any more contact to make SURE nothing will go on!

So, as I said, the IG is the place to go.

When you call the IG, make sure you have at least the SM's name, his/her rank and unit, if you can get it. If you need help, ask someone you know that knows military rank and unit patches, and have them look at Facebook pictures or describe to them what their uniform looks like. Tell the IG everything you know. There are privacy protections...so you can give them info in confidence (one note: any information that directly implicates someone in an illegal act is not covered by privacy protections. Please understand that an IG is a Federal investigator!).

The IG will be adept at receiving these kinds of complaints, so will have additional questions for you. Answer them completely. If you dont know the answer, tell them you dont know. Or if you can get the answer, ask them if you should and get back to them.

Again, I cannot emphasize this enough...an IG is a Federal investigator. Which means, if you lie to them...there is jailtime and a huge fine. So dont do it! Tell them nothing but facts!!

At the end of the interview, the IG will advise you that they will pursue this...but they will not be able, sue to privacy rights, to let you know what the results of the investigation are. But you wont need them!!

Why? Because when that SM immediately stops contacting your spouse or contacts your spose and tells them they have been ordered not to see them anymore...then things will go nuclear. But that is the beauty of exposure. But unlike exposure in the civilian world, after exposure with a military member involved...well, no contact will be implemented immediately.

How do we know? Because if the SM is ordered not to see your spouse, and they do...then they have disobeyed a direct order. Then you call the IG, tell them contact continues. And there is almost nothing worse in the military than disobeying a direct order!! There WILL be criminal charges then!

So, do you research. Find out what unit they are in...or at least what post/base they are from. Then contact the unit of base/post IG. Do this at the same time that you do your exposure elsewhere (family, friends, etc).

Note: I wish that in the civilian world, there should be laws just like the military has.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 02:41 PM
I totally get this and would in fact call if I had any solid clues or info on which guy in particular. Mind you she only told me about two "friends". Who knows if the perpetrator is a friend of those guys, and she never let me in on him at all. Just going to have to wait to see if she admits anything or if I find evidence online.


As of now she didn't heed the conditions of our communication break, she texted me last night herself. Said she loved me and then this morning a good morning and a "I'll talk to you later have a nice day". She's having her cake and eating it too. She's taken down every picture of us on social media sites and changed her informations to just list her age, that she's in the military, and overseas. Nothing about me. Her pictures are now very pretty and happy looking, all dressed up, "to attract a mate" kind of pictures.. And any page she follows or likes now is all about "focus on what makes you happy and have no regrets or fears" kind of "inspiration". And about not trusting people or expecting anything from them. To the public it seems she's moved on and perhaps has fallen for someone, the average eye may guess. But to me personally, treats me how she does. I don't know which way this is going to go.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 06:39 PM
Can you hire a PI to find out who the OM is? You need to kill this affair.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 08:28 PM
I haven't considered that or looked into it, maybe I can look it up but they'd have to be hired in the UK while I pay them from here in the states.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 08:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
I haven't considered that or looked into it, maybe I can look it up but they'd have to be hired in the UK while I pay them from here in the states.

I would definitely do that.

You need to get the evidence and report it to her command and kill this affair.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/21/13 10:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
I haven't considered that or looked into it, maybe I can look it up but they'd have to be hired in the UK while I pay them from here in the states.

I'm sure you could do the whole thing online, sending the PI digital photos of your WW. I'm sure a Google search of UK PIs would bring up several who would be prepared to work that way.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/22/13 05:41 PM
I'm going to research this and make that move if and only if I'm sure I won't miss the target.


By the way with her childhood issues I think we are dealing with borderline personality disorder here and so much more is making sense. Especially the contrasting pushing me away then coming back kind of thing, wanting me to die and then saying she loves me. It isn't just normal over reacting girl emotions. These are extreme cases of signs of BPD that she has presented our whole relationship. I had no idea
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/26/13 02:17 PM
I got quoted "easily over 1000" for a PI. I really don't have the money to blow on that. Which really sucks. They said military it's going to be extremely challenging to get anything anyway since restrictions on base entry. We have been talking daily and she has been polite and nice. No fighting from either of us. Although it seems like that eerie alien family vibe that we are faking being perfect so we don't have to deal with the truth? Idk.. Especially because I'm still blocked on some social networking and don't know her passwords anymore. She doesn't seem to be going back on that anytime soon. Said her life is less stressful now.

We exchange sexual pictures sometimes again too.. But she doesn't express her desire to be with me. She still insists I do not move in with her, rather I stay and go into the Air Force now and meet her later (6-8months). Insisting that we will be fine and this is best for our future. I'm basically following the "do what she tells you to do" attitude of trying to coax a spouse out of cheating and withdrawal. Arguing wont get me anywhere with her but ignored.

Like I said the love feels fake. I feel like when she says I love you it's just that she cares about my well being and feels for me, definitely not the I'm in love with you and want you type. Said she tried hard many times the past week to try to get the feeling back and can't bc it hurts too much. What is that supposed to mean hurt too much? I wasn't that bad.

When we do have our half ass emotion talks, it's only a few sentences and then she doesn't respond. Throughout the day it's just a couple sentences. Good morning, I'll talk to you later have a good day. Then after work she might say hi and that's about it. Before bed that she loves me and be careful at work. Bare minimum.


She's attempting this with me and yet is not fully into it. Could she be guarding herself still? It's only about week 2 into the madness. Could take months for her to warm up fully. But she sends me racy pictures. Is "more" friendly than at first... And states we will be ok. At the same time telling me she doesn't feel it right now and definitely cannot see me living with her now, but is speaking of our future later like it actually will exist.

All this coming from a girl who just weeks ago was extremely affectionate extremely horny for me and expressing her desires loudly for having children. All is completely opposite now. I'm lost
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/27/13 12:42 AM
So a cheaper route would be to put spyware on her computer, phone and buy a VAR for her vehicle. Is there a way you can try and do this?
Posted By: MindMonkey Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/27/13 02:40 PM
Srw,

I hestitate to say this, but you are in no position to save your marriage. I've seen this a hundred times unfortunately. Rarely do things work out. It's extremely likely that your W is having an affair, or at least one or more ONS. She will be getting ALOT of attention from men and eventually, if not already, she will cave. Your LB$ balance is too low due to your separation.

The only way to fix this is for you to live with her TODAY which would mean not joining the military yourself. Since that is not likely to happen, you really are at a loss. Without any kids in the picture, I (me) would just cry it out as love lost and file for D.

Really, alot of the options presented to you on this thread would be doable IF you were not separated by an ocean.

The other option is just to keep doing what you're doing. Maybe...eventually...she will move you out there. THEN you can work to R your marriage. Trying to do it now, over the phone, when she is enjoying her single life, isn't going to happen.

I hate to be debbie downer but i've seen your situation before. Young women who are married w/out children tend to play the field a bit when they join if thier hubby geographically separated. Hell, my wife did it twice (and that's WITH two kids). Not saying this is a forgone conclusion, but I would HATE to see you give up your chances for a successful military carreer trying to save something that may be too far gone.

My $.02
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 03:56 PM
I do understand the vast terrible possibilities and every night I go to bed I try to accept the fact that she could be in bed sleeping naked on another guys chest. And then in the morning saying good morning to me and she loves me. I also accept that she's dragging this out as long as possible til I quit, so she doesn't have to bear the burden of guilt. I am willing to accept that, should it come down to the choice she makes. regardless, I'm joining the Air Force as soon as possible and getting my career going for my own sake. 1. If this will take me going away and becoming an airman for her to realize I am the man she thought I could be, that will help, 2. If she still shows no love, I will at least have a good career. And 3. I have no other choice, she to this day, denies me to even come visit her. She doesn't want me to move in, and doesn't want me shipped there to live for a few months before I go to basic training.


She basically does not want me to step foot on her base overseas. And she even stated that she thought about canceling our join spouse plans to be stationed there together as she said"so we don't have to extend our stay here for 3 years" aka ... I want to stay single on this base for two years and maybe I'll meet up with you after I'm done with my flings.

She still strongly suggests to me to take certain careers in the Air Force as they pay a lot and have reenlistment bonus's. if she is talking reenlistment bonus, and plans on being with me to share that money, she plans on being with me 6,10,12 years at least to reap those benefits? If she really does not love me, why go through an unhappy marriage that long just to spend my bonus? Wouldn't a wife rather detach sooner? Or maybe she plans on being separate for as long as possible and blame it on military life, and not her lack of love or care.

Or maybe she's being extremely selfish and wrong as a wife to get back at me for "treating her so bad" that she is going to enjoy her single life for the next two years and try to ween herself off and back to me after? Even though its completely despicable, she could have honest intentions to make it right with me after time, like a couple going through an agreed seperation and making it work, after affairs and other loves and love lost. Although our seperation started off as mandatory due to work, it's ending up being by her emotional choice now that she has withdrawn from me.

Also if anyone has advice on how to send her spyware via email, please inform me, I have no other way of tracking her email or Facebook or computer keystrokes or anything. I feel there is a gold mine of information there that would help me decide how to proceed. Until then, I'm still patient to her, encouraging that she's a good person and always holding my hand out if she wants to take it, at the same time doing the best for myself, trying to be more positive and happy, working out, eating healthy, and trying to ship off ASAP, the things she would've found attractive in me when we started dating.

God blesses those who persevere, right?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 08:37 PM
She's a typical Wayward. This is why you need to get evidence and expose to her command.

She needs to be held accountable for her actions.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 08:53 PM
I need to know how to send spyware to her computer as I believe I can find exposing conversations ... Anything from flirting, sex talk or "you were so amazing last night". Would be worthy of reporting to command. I simply cannot prove this any other way even with an investigator. They can't spy in the bedroom where this would go down
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 09:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
I need to know how to send spyware to her computer as I believe I can find exposing conversations ... Anything from flirting, sex talk or "you were so amazing last night". Would be worthy of reporting to command. I simply cannot prove this any other way even with an investigator. They can't spy in the bedroom where this would go down

Is there anyway you can go for a "friendly visit" and put the spyware on her phone?
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 09:58 PM
I really wish I could. After letting her know I could move in with her and she denied that, I said well hey let me visit for Xmas? Re kindle the flame a little? And she could only reply with "I don't think you would be allowed to stay with me in the dorms, I don't know how we would see each other". So i just backed off and I emailed the base to see what they could do about letting me visit, and maybe just approach her again soon and say I can get a hotel if need be. But that would be months down the road as I would need to apply for a passport. I am in no position to fix this from overseas and it appears the only way to try to get to her is to ship off myself and let her know I'm coming to fix this marriage and secure a solid future in us, and that no matter the time apart or distance I'm not giving up
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 11:01 PM

Maybe you could buy her a brand new top of the line phone, like the iPhone 5 and have the spyware pre-installed.

Give it to her to be able to have access to quicker speeds, more memory and to be easier to connect with each other.

Test it out first and even buy yourself the exact same model so you know and learn all the functions so you can help her be on top of the technology.

Don't Ever let her know while you are investigating though.

Buttt, weren't you only married for just 1 month before you got separated and tranfered or deployed?

Is a reality of only a one month marriage worth hanging onto with deception right out of the starting gate?

That's for You to decide, but please let us know.

LTL
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 11:31 PM
I will research that and if it's possible to hack a new iPhone like that, I can see that working.

But yeah, one month before basic training, and together a year and a half or so before marriage, and to be honest with the strict structure of basic and tech school she was completely ok and trustworthy, and I did see her in between every now and then. It all happened on our 6th and 7th month of marriage right here where we are now, from the deployment. I feel it's worth it, she needs guidance she needs stability, confidence, to love herself and mostly, God. There's a good soul hiding in the lost girl
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/28/13 11:53 PM
Not hack it.

But install spyware before you gift it to her.

It will record all conversations, texts, e-mails and keystrokes which will give you the passwords you wanted for her FB page and any other social interaction site. Then all that info gets sent to a secure website for you to find out the truth.

Check out the Operation Investigate sub-forum and see what one is recommended.

LTL
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 12:12 AM
Looks like a very powerful tool. I will have to buy it no contract and unlocked, will be about 600 dollars. But I see that it could work.. Will need to bust my ass to make this purchase doable but I'm very very very tempted in this idea now thank you wow
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 12:16 AM
Originally Posted By: Srw
Looks like a very powerful tool. I will have to buy it no contract and unlocked, will be about 600 dollars. But I see that it could work.. Will need to bust my ass to make this purchase doable but I'm very very very tempted in this idea now thank you wow

This is an excellent idea. She will love the new phone and you will have spyware and be able to get the goods.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 12:17 AM
It's a huge investment for my funds right now as I've been struggling but hey marriage is the biggest investment of all and if I can figure this out once and for all...
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 12:23 AM
The only thing sketching me out now is that she will have to add a new SIM card to activate this USA phone for her UK service plan. I'm wondering if the switch will delete my spyware. Will have to call apple and the spyware companies customer service
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 12:30 AM
Originally Posted By: Srw
The only thing sketching me out now is that she will have to add a new SIM card to activate this USA phone for her UK service plan. I'm wondering if the switch will delete my spyware. Will have to call apple and the spyware companies customer service

Yes contact them. They will let you know.
Posted By: living_well Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 09:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
The only thing sketching me out now is that she will have to add a new SIM card to activate this USA phone for her UK service plan. I'm wondering if the switch will delete my spyware. Will have to call apple and the spyware companies customer service


I often switch between a US and a UK SIM in an iPhone and this switch does not disturb any of the existing applications. Just make sure that the notification method is via email not over the phone network as obviously the phone number string will be wrong from UK.
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 09:29 PM
Where would this man buy a UK Sim card if that is what the new high end phone will utilize.

He probably should supply her with both the US and UK cards so she has no need to go to a phone shop for them to implement the product.

LTL
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 09:42 PM
Great information thank you everyone! Here's an update as well.. She went to a bachelorette party sat night. It was all girls indeed and no strippers but they did go clubbing. I stumbled upon a quick drunken blurry video online her friend posted, on the dancefloor scanning the girls dancing real quick, all the girls are dancing with the other girls, having fun, then the camera pans over to my wife hip to hip with a guy at a 45 degree angle, it appears they each have an arm around each other and she's downing a beer while he is talking in her ear and sleazily grinning. The video ends a few seconds after that and I'm not sure what is going on in my head now. Feels like a building caving inside my head and heart


Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 10:08 PM
You know what's going on.

Now, get your evidence and blow it up,..... If you still feel this marriage deserves your efforts.

Don't let her hang on, but keep you at a distance just for the marital benefits.

Now that you have seen her getting friendly with another guy, do you still want her?

LTL
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 10:09 PM
Oh, and copy and save that video for yourself for part of your proof.

LTL
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 10:24 PM
I've saved it and I'm feeling so confused. I want to try to say she is just so damaged and f'd up herself right now that she will feel regret about her decisions later, but then part of me just says dude you accidentally married a hoe bag. And this activity won't ever stop. She told me weeks ago she's gonna need time to "see if she can do this" and apparently she's figuring out that she can't, she can't withhold these boundaries as a spouse should. As a wayward though, we can't expect her to make the right choices that would be healthy for me and her, she sees me as the enemy and she's not playing the role of my wife anymore. She's single in her actions. I want her but holy cow after this, it's no longer the fool in love, I'm gonna need some extreme recovery work if she so chooses to come around and try us again, we both are going to have to fall back In love because seeing her like that sort of just killed me today.


I have this urge now that rather than following her instructions, and not being pushy, to wait to ship off for basic til after January, I'm instead going to try to ship off as soon as possible and once it comes time for me to be stationed with her, I will hit her with the "it's our marriage or it's the booze and clubs and strange men, you've had months to figure this out"

I'm trying to follow all these protocols I'm seeing on MB and I just end up blurring all the lines
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 09/29/13 10:29 PM
I also don't want to make quick emotion based decisions either, as they can screw up a good logical approach..
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/01/13 02:00 AM
If anyone would be so kind as to help me figure out how to implement Plan A in my situation.

right now she is currently working with me in discussing our future Air Force careers. She's speaking as if she will really be a part of my life later, it could be a ploy to get me independent and out of her hair. But I'm taking these discussions as a good thing regardless. She's not ignoring me anymore.


She's been a little more affectionate, but as I read on these forums, the sadly humorous yet true, " mid life crisis" step by step of a wayward. To string me along until I call it quits from exhaustion, she can be minimally nice every now and then to keep me barely breathing. Sent me a nude picture tonight.


She is still gone most of the day without contact with me, still blocked on some social networking sites where she posts blatant "wild party girl" type photos. She's trying to find herself in all the wrong places, like the bottom of a bottle. But from close analysis i see she still wore her ring out clubbing. & She surprisingly posted on my Facebook wall "loving you<3"


Still insists she's not cheating and I haven't dug up concrete evidence as its nearly possible from overseas and being military. They say not to attack until you know everything and have a solid plan to expose.

So How do I compete for her attention and hold out my hand for a loving and safe marriage as laid out in Plan A, if I can't expose or prove cheating and offer forgiveness? Do I just do everything the same minus the exposure? Letting her know if she wants to come back we can forgive each other, almost speaking as if I know something is fishy but won't try to nail it?

All the signs are there. "I feel smothered" "I don't feel the same" "I need time" changing her passwords, disappearing for hours on end, not telling me where she goes or what she does, yet returns from the disappearances with a Lame excuse and is very polite to me, drinking, found that video of a sleazy guy in a club way too close to her(random bar guy but c'mon still way wrong), 10% of her original affection shown to me, doesn't like me complimenting her too much, feels like I'm "friend zoned".

She has always been very jealous, I said a friend of mine wanted to drive two hours away to a great pizza place with me, I told her. She returned immediately with "hah probably so he can meet some slutty girls?" As if mad that I may encounter females on a pizza dinner. I said no it's just us, and she basically gave me the "whatever" reply and shut down. I cancelled with my friend and let her win, I lied and said "yeah you were right he was going to meet some skanks, I don't need that" and we joked together and she went to bed "happy". So we see now that she can do no wrong by boozing til 3am with single guys, but god forbid I eat pizza with a friends friend....


My game plan (unless directed otherwise by you guys) is to just go to basic training as soon as possible, up until then implement Plan A in a way that doesn't involve exposure because I can't possibly expose anything unless I try this 600 dollar iPhone spy idea. I won't let my emotions ruin our conversations, and will try not to let love busters out no matter how bad my taker wants to just scream WILL YOU JUST STOP DRINKING WITH THESE IDIOTS AND PUTTING YOURSELF OUT THERE LIKE A SINGLE WH**E!? I like the analogy of throwing stones in a river, it will feel like an eternity with no progress shown until all the sudden the stones start showing out of the water and a bridge is made. I will try to play the "art of war" with her with my spying and snooping as best as possible. Reminding her of our future plans, how happy we were, and how well I'm doing physically and mentally lately, so she sees I'm an attractive mate.

I'm just very concerned as you guys say Plan A is so shaky when not done right, what do you think would happen if I played it "cool" like this, she went out, possibly Has a continued affair or numerous one nighters, and I weather the pain and still show her love until she sees me in the Air Force finally, making good money, looking good and feeling good, and decides she wants to become a real wife and the "party is over"? I'm afraid if this does drag on 5-6 more months then it will be almost impossible to pull her out of that depraved ditch she is in, that she simply won't want to try. She would have to initiate the divorce though, as I will not participate. I just don't see her doing that if I'm making these efforts for her, though time can change so much, especially spending every day the next half a year, apart. Even with the plans to see each other in the "future", it can be out if sight out of mind for her now.,,


Sorry I type a lot, I have a writers brain and lately as you know how it goes, my thoughts are chaotic and constant, like a barrage of bombs constantly being dropped inside my head.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/01/13 02:06 AM
And if all else fails after that...well at least I've become an exponentially better person, way wiser, and more in tune with emotions and love, with a great career. Too bad as of right now she's not on the same boat as me,maybe she will come aboard when I have my career...
Posted By: MindMonkey Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/01/13 05:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
If anyone would be so kind as to help me figure out how to implement Plan A in my situation...

...I'm just very concerned as you guys say Plan A is so shaky when not done right, what do you think would happen if I played it "cool" like this, she went out, possibly Has a continued affair or numerous one nighters, and I weather the pain and still show her love until she sees me in the Air Force finally, making good money, looking good and feeling good, and decides she wants to become a real wife and the "party is over"? I'm afraid if this does drag on 5-6 more months then it will be almost impossible to pull her out of that depraved ditch she is in, that she simply won't want to try. She would have to initiate the divorce though, as I will not participate. I just don't see her doing that if I'm making these efforts for her, though time can change so much, especially spending every day the next half a year, apart. Even with the plans to see each other in the "future", it can be out if sight out of mind for her now.



A few thoughts

1. You can't Plan A in your sitch. You know that analogy of throwing rocks in a stream you mentioned? You are throwing rocks in the ATLANTIC OCEAN. I'm a submariner, trust me it's deep. What you are trying may work, but it's no plan A.

2. She MAY come around. Many of these "geo-bachelors" stop their whorish behavior when they finally look at themseves and say "what have I become?", or more likely they get caught by their husband/wife. She MAY get to that point after a few ONS or not. She MAY fall "in love" with another guy showering her attention then you are out of the picture completely within six months. If your plan is to stick this out, deal with the pain, put on a happy face, move there someday, test her for STDs, and (ultimately fail to) recover your marriage, I feel for you. I can tell from your writing, you are better then that. She blocks her husband from social media? I would take what you've learned, file for D, join the AF, find a woman who loves you and will actually live with you, and work on a life of happiness meeting eachothers ENs. That's me though.

3. Military logistics make NO guarantees that you will actually end up stationed with her. You say a half a year. It may be much longer. Consider that.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/03/13 12:47 PM
Originally Posted By: MadMindMonkey
Originally Posted By: Srw
If anyone would be so kind as to help me figure out how to implement Plan A in my situation...

...I'm just very concerned as you guys say Plan A is so shaky when not done right, what do you think would happen if I played it "cool" like this, she went out, possibly Has a continued affair or numerous one nighters, and I weather the pain and still show her love until she sees me in the Air Force finally, making good money, looking good and feeling good, and decides she wants to become a real wife and the "party is over"? I'm afraid if this does drag on 5-6 more months then it will be almost impossible to pull her out of that depraved ditch she is in, that she simply won't want to try. She would have to initiate the divorce though, as I will not participate. I just don't see her doing that if I'm making these efforts for her, though time can change so much, especially spending every day the next half a year, apart. Even with the plans to see each other in the "future", it can be out if sight out of mind for her now.



A few thoughts

1. You can't Plan A in your sitch. You know that analogy of throwing rocks in a stream you mentioned? You are throwing rocks in the ATLANTIC OCEAN. I'm a submariner, trust me it's deep. What you are trying may work, but it's no plan A.

2. She MAY come around. Many of these "geo-bachelors" stop their whorish behavior when they finally look at themseves and say "what have I become?", or more likely they get caught by their husband/wife. She MAY get to that point after a few ONS or not. She MAY fall "in love" with another guy showering her attention then you are out of the picture completely within six months. If your plan is to stick this out, deal with the pain, put on a happy face, move there someday, test her for STDs, and (ultimately fail to) recover your marriage, I feel for you. I can tell from your writing, you are better then that. She blocks her husband from social media? I would take what you've learned, file for D, join the AF, find a woman who loves you and will actually live with you, and work on a life of happiness meeting eachothers ENs. That's me though.

3. Military logistics make NO guarantees that you will actually end up stationed with her. You say a half a year. It may be much longer. Consider that.





Hey thanks for your clear and level headed reply.

So far it's been about 3 weeks since our meltdown. And my unique "Plan A" style approach has achieved her affection to rise from 10% of usual, to about 30% I'd say now.

We say good morning and goodnight and talk every day. Yet her "I love yous" are dropping out randomly. It was a 3x or more thing a day, now the past few days 1 or none, when she goes in the morning, she will say "ok I'm gonna go get breakfast bye babe<3" or "bye love". While I say ok bye have a good day I love you... None in return


Social media update, she has added me back on one site and updated her info to state she is married ( surprising),

yet on twitter...her track record of her "favorite" tweets usually go hand in hand with her emotions.. When we were happy she would favorite tweets from such and such person about their present happiness with being married, tweets about kids, future moving upwards kind of things. When we melted down, she favorited things like "know what you're getting and what you deserve are diff things" and "it's my life and I'll make my own choices" ..... Now, in this half assed recovery phase, she favorited a couple of my tweets and then this morning... One from someone that said "what's it like to date again?"


So according to her past behaviors regarding favorites being a mirror image of her mind... She's thinking about the dating scene?


This has me worried as two days ago she stated she was very stressed and couldn't sleep lately. I asked if it was work bothering her. She stated "yeah work, I never have time to work out and also I can't even tell you everything that's bothering me" ... I didn't push her and she never told me.

She also informed me she will be getting a tattoo Saturday at big metro area 1.5 hrs away from her base. I asked how she was getting there and she said by train. I said by yourself!? She said no I'm going with (we'll call him L), because he wanted to get a tattoo too. So in my head I have to plan A my response... I'm just like oh.. Just you two ? She said yes I asked (his guy friend) to go too but he said he didn't want to sit and do nothing for 7 hours watching us getting tattooed. I said yeah I know the feeling...

So what we have here is a plan about a week or two in the making, for them to go off somewhere and get tattooed. For some reason she said he just didnt want to drive and that's why they are taking a train, I think it's because she thinks it will be fun (and romantic, you see we planned on taking trains around..as a MARRIED COUPLE).


Luckily I have the tattoo artists contact info and I'm going to ask him, when they're gone, if he thought their interactions were appropriate. And if they said they had plans that night, as tattoo small talk can achieve a lot, especially if they are both outspoken and flirty on their "date". If she pulls some BS like "the train isn't going to make it back in time, we have to get a place out here", I don't know what I'm going to do, I will need the help of god and my family not to break down, as it will be clear what the weekend trip would amount to. Her interest in dating, her eerie calm attitude to me now, less i love yous, spending a 4 hour round trip on a train and hours more bonding through getting tattooed with him alone, it all adds up she is developing feelings for him, what we are seeing appears to be an emotional affair, it's been growing for almost two months and no one saw it coming.

She sees this 19 year old kid almost every day, and when I ask where she was, she beats around the bush and tells me she was with him without actually saying it. She knows I know that when she needs a ride to the post office, and to get food, he takes her. So I ask what have you been up to? I've been hoping we could chat after you got off work, and she will say oh sry I went to the post office and to the base exchange and then got Pizza Hut, I feel fat I'm going to work out then shower. Then leaves me hanging until I go to work and she's up til 11pm after I leave. When we were "ok" she would easily and voluntarily go to bed around 830-9pm. She complains she's tired and not eating right lately.


Typical of waywards, and borderline personality sufferers(which I suspect could be possible), she is probably feeling that excitement of falling for someone new? Learning about them and playing the game of "do you have a crush on me too?", she wants the chase and it's well known affair relationships don't spring off into beautiful flourishing lives together, usually something gets ruined on either end and they part ways, the question is even if she falls in love with him in the coming months...or [censored] this month... What do you think the odds are she will, as you say, realize wtf has my life become? And remember deep down she wants a stable relationship with a loving home and children, not to bounce boyfriend to boyfriend.

It's painful to think that may be all she's capable of doing, that she won't ever settle down....and let booze and the new car smell of multiple men guide her life, just like her mother, who lost her drivers license to too many DUis and is now old and unattractive and unhealthy and ALONE. My wife is walking on thin ice and is doing so proudly. Why is she so self destructive? She has a skin condition which has left her self conscious since she developed the ability to have conscious thoughts.. I have been thinking the borderline... And the need for validation from many men thru physical means was always important to her then, to feel like a pretty girl. But I'm no doctor. Just a man struggling to see the good and still love and forgive, like God would to me...

Oh and an edit here for an addition... She is now saying I need to hurry and get this process going to join, when she was apathetic and ready for a slow pace just a week ago. Could this be a cry for help like "I'm about to fall for someone please come stop me" or is it "hey get your career going already so I can ditch you and not feel bad, I'm tryin to get with this new guy over here and you're slowing me down"
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/03/13 01:22 PM
You are going to have a very difficult time recovering your marriage from a distance, do you understand this? If you can't join your wife in her new duty station and then remain together every single night for the rest of your marriage together, your wife (and you) will always be at risk of affairs.

Every wayward appears to have personality disorders, so don't get concerned about this at this point. I was sure my H was a sociopath, but once the waywardness ended and our marriage recovered, he's a wonderful man.

Everyone is wired to have an affair. Those who have no accountability and leave their love bank open to members of the opposite will often have affairs. Given the right opportunity, just about anybody would have an affair. That's why it's so important to follow basic marital rules, such as living an integrated (no nights apart, leisure time together) and transparent (passwords shared) lifestyle, meeting each other's ENs and avoiding LBs.

God forgives us, but we have to repent and then sin no more. There is a time for forgiveness, but you're not there yet. First, you have to end the affair and you have to change your lifestyle so that you can live together and build a marriage in which you and your wife, two separate people, blend together. You can't have that while living apart. And the military is notorious for its bad marriages, given all the separations.

No one here will discourage you from trying to save your marriage, but until you can live together and stay together, your marriage is going to suffer and your wife will continue living like a single person.
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/03/13 01:30 PM
Originally Posted By: LongWayFromHome
You are going to have a very difficult time recovering your marriage from a distance, do you understand this? If you can't join your wife in her new duty station and then remain together every single night for the rest of your marriage together, your wife (and you) will always be at risk of affairs.

Every wayward appears to have personality disorders, so don't get concerned about this at this point. I was sure my H was a sociopath, but once the waywardness ended and our marriage recovered, he's a wonderful man.

Everyone is wired to have an affair. Those who have no accountability and leave their love bank open to members of the opposite will often have affairs. Given the right opportunity, just about anybody would have an affair. That's why it's so important to follow basic marital rules, such as living an integrated (no nights apart, leisure time together) and transparent (passwords shared) lifestyle, meeting each other's ENs and avoiding LBs.

God forgives us, but we have to repent and then sin no more. There is a time for forgiveness, but you're not there yet. First, you have to end the affair and you have to change your lifestyle so that you can live together and build a marriage in which you and your wife, two separate people, blend together. You can't have that while living apart. And the military is notorious for its bad marriages, given all the separations.

No one here will discourage you from trying to save your marriage, but until you can live together and stay together, your marriage is going to suffer and your wife will continue living like a single person.






I believe and understand everything you just said! Believe me I would love to magically be there right now. Career and all, automatically transferred out there and spending those hours and nights with her. With financial issues, her not adding me to her orders to live with her, and me joining soon it will be impossible to do that for the next few months.

I know it's the only chance I have to fix it. I simply cannot do anything from overseas besides avoid love busters and push her closer into his arms, she can at least feel some guilt while I am so thoughtful and caring about our marriage.


I'm just wondering from what you guys have heard or seen or experienced yourself... If the wife wanders away due to horrible boundaries, she did have the feeling of "I'm always in control of my feelings idk why you are so insecure about guys and me!", and I push her farther away, yet check myself and make all changes I can, career wise and attitude wise, do you ever see that wandering wife believe in and love the original man she married after the seperation and time of "finding herself"? Or should I expect divorce papers when I graduate basic? And maybe expect a drunk phone call 6 months after that when the boyfriend dumps her for being crazy...

Side note I am going to call the base right now and ask if they can do private investigations for this sort of thing and separate them with terms of court Marshall if they don't heed. I have no evidence but obviously these strong signs, they may understand and look into it, or tell me sorry.. We'll see if I get through now..


No long distance offered on my phone, have to figure out a diff way
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/03/13 01:52 PM
If your wife, who you were only married to for 1 month prior to the career separation, will not apply for you two to live together, i feel you need to decide on assertive boundaries, if you will follow through.

Either that, or communicate that for the marriage to work and become romantically recharged, the two of you need to brainstorm using POJA to come up with a solution.

Find a way to get stationed there or realize you will not have an exclusive marriage relationship.

If your own W will not agree to have her H join her, i do not see anything else that will work.

Let us know if the phone call guided you with any military punitive solutions.

LTL
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/03/13 02:09 PM
I've asserted my boundaries before she left and she agreed, she left and one month into her deployment she went back on her promises, this is where I blew up and used every love buster imaginable to express my disappointment and hurt by her actions.


All she did was insist over and over again that "the situation was different"than how I viewed it and that it was" an unfair position" she was put in.


For a while she supposedly didnt give them her number, but they knew where she lived obviously because they picked her up to do things, and they would randomly come over. I expressed how I thought that was inappropriate and this is what she said "ok you didn't want me to give them my number so how else do you think they're gonna contact me? Pick a struggle, texting me or walking over"


I still expressed my concern both was wrong. She is not willing to compromise for what she is "entitled" to do.


POJA would be amazing if she would be willing to agree on anything relationship wise. Right now it's literally her way or the highway.

My ultimate goal is to be stationed with her after I graduate basic training in a few months.

I know the affair will continue, I know there's no stopping her until I get there, it's ripping me apart because i have to watch it all crumble with a fake smile, and hope in the future we can rebuild.


So basically, right now she does as she pleases while she knows it hurts me. I have no way to get there for maybe...4-5 months.


I'm wondering if waywards ever go "find themselves" aka whoring around, and then once they feel the party is over and it's out of their system, come back "home" and work on what's real?

It will be a long painful process and I've already assumed the worst scenarios in my head. From me getting divorce papers in basic training, to living with her and walking in on them. To her emotionally detached and texting him all day while I'm with her. I've played it all out but as of right now im willing to fight for the right thing to do which is plan for my future and to fix our marriage in that future
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/04/13 04:22 AM
Yes. Waywards often whore around and come back.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/04/13 04:31 AM
Has her adultery been exposed to the inspector General?
Posted By: Srw Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/07/13 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Has her adultery been exposed to the inspector General?



no, it hasn't. Only because I have no proof. Just the fact she parties and goes out to eat with these guys.


So the funny thing is she totally came around the past few days. Has been sexually interested and open with me. Affection at 100%. I got an Air Force shop date for January,

She's actually open to the idea of me moving in with her before I go. But we are weighing the benefits and risks bc it could take til December to get my passport anyway, and what good is moving to England for one month and coming back to Texas.

So as of now we are both very excited I got my ship date and it's fairly soon (in terms of military marriage, we go through a lot in terms of waiting ). She's expressing her excitement and love for me and how wonderful our future will be. I don't know what happened. A miracle. I changed myself so much though. And it could've taken her this past month to see she doesn't need to look elsewhere, I'm the one she can depend on.



Hopefully this will be my last post. Because everything looks clear. We had a long talk about her "guy friends" and she understands how the time alone can be bad, she said she wants him to find a girlfriend so he can leave her alone more but until then I guess he will be texting her when he needs a tv and food buddy. All I know is that stuff is gonna stop when I get there. And she openly said yes when you're here I will never be going to hang out with them alone.

Thx for the help
Posted By: MindMonkey Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/08/13 03:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Srw
Hopefully this will be my last post. Because everything looks clear. We had a long talk about her "guy friends" and she understands how the time alone can be bad, she said she wants him to find a girlfriend so he can leave her alone more but until then I guess he will be texting her when he needs a tv and food buddy. All I know is that stuff is gonna stop when I get there. And she openly said yes when you're here I will never be going to hang out with them alone.

Thx for the help


I'll bet there is more to this saga. I hope your right though. There's alot of guys in the Air Force, if OM needs a "buddy" for football, he could find a male, or single female. He's calling on your wife because she is meeting his emotional needs. In return, he's meeting hers. It won't stop until you get there to stop it.

Please post again. It's always nice to hear about the success stories. And, right now your story isn't quite yet a success.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 10/20/13 10:02 PM
SRW, why don't you simply go over there and deal with it?

You aren't willing to dump her for her (very obvious) adultery, so that leaves going over there and dealing with it.

Go over there, be your own PI for a few days while not revealing to WW where you are.

Then: "Surprise! I came here to surprise you, baby!" Preferably in front of all her skanky OM. Grab her and give her a big smooch. Ignore any negative reaction.

Then you can give her pre installed spyware phone (AND buy a SIM while in the UK) and also plant lots of other spyware while there.

You could even give her a tablet (so we can Skype, honey). There are security programs which let you access the web cam in case it is stolen. So you could see it at any time.

If you are waiting for her permission to come over there and bust up her party, it's never going to happen.

You're going have to stroll in and do it, calmly and confidently.

Originally Posted By: Srw
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Has her adultery been exposed to the inspector General?



no, it hasn't. Only because I have no proof. Just the fact she parties and goes out to eat with these guys.


So the funny thing is she totally came around the past few days. Has been sexually interested and open with me. Affection at 100%. I got an Air Force shop date for January,

She's actually open to the idea of me moving in with her before I go. But we are weighing the benefits and risks bc it could take til December to get my passport anyway, and what good is moving to England for one month and coming back to Texas.

So as of now we are both very excited I got my ship date and it's fairly soon (in terms of military marriage, we go through a lot in terms of waiting ). She's expressing her excitement and love for me and how wonderful our future will be. I don't know what happened. A miracle. I changed myself so much though. And it could've taken her this past month to see she doesn't need to look elsewhere, I'm the one she can depend on.



Hopefully this will be my last post. Because everything looks clear. We had a long talk about her "guy friends" and she understands how the time alone can be bad, she said she wants him to find a girlfriend so he can leave her alone more but until then I guess he will be texting her when he needs a tv and food buddy. All I know is that stuff is gonna stop when I get there. And she openly said yes when you're here I will never be going to hang out with them alone.

Thx for the help


You still need to find out what happened and what is happening. Hidden affairs will poison a marriage. You'll always wonder and she will never recover if its hidden.
Posted By: 2stretcher Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 11/28/13 05:33 AM
SRW, Before you would enlist and take the chance to go over there and be stationed with her I'd make sure the marriage was going to work. Otherwise you might want to use your future going to college and forget her all together. Once you enlist you can't get out of it just because your marriage didn't work. Been there and I don't think it sounds good the way she had shut you off! Just my feelings SRW!
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Did I screw this up forever? - 01/03/14 04:06 PM
SRW,

Did you ever get the opportunity to relocate to be with your W and verify what was going on?

I hope you find out what you need to discover so you can move forward in peace.

Let us know how things are going and i hope you had a wonderful Christmas and start off a good New Year.

LTL
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