pa is a one of my needs that is high. Dh is aware of that and has made a bit of progress toward meeting that need. But, I am realistic in knowing that he has done most of what he is going to do to meet that need. And I really don't blame him for it. He works really hard to take care of our family which allows me to stay home with our kids. He provides a wonderful life for us. He is a great dad and husband. All of these things leave little time for him to work out more often. He rides his bike to work everday (not a long ride-about 10 minutes there and 10 back) and he eats fairly healthy. I am guessing it must be the beer that causes him to maintain being overweight because otherwise he eats healthy and gets a bit of exercise. Anyway, I just don't want to be concerned with it anymore. I love him, am in love with him, and don't want to be with anyone else but can I change me and my needs so that I can have a better physical chemistry with him??

If you are in love with him, it sounds like he must be meeting your needs successfully. The proof is in the pudding...

I am in love with him but I want to be more physically attracted to him

Then you should be honest with him and tell him what he can do to make you more attracted to him.

I have been honest and he knows but I believe he is really doing about as much as he can right now, and I accept that. So this is not about me trying to have him do more to change himself. It is about me wanting to just get to the point of completely accepting him as is, and teaching myself to be more p. attracted to him as he is. Possible???

ace, but the truth is that you are not attracted to him as he is. And I bet you have tried, haven't you? So the solution is to ask him to lose the weight so you are attracted to him.

You say he's done 'most' of what he needs to do. What part is missing?

Ace, has he tried different diets? Has he eliminated most carbohydrates? And how much beer does he drink?

Beer will pack on the belly weight in a heartbeat. How much does your husband drink? How many beers a night? How many nights a week?

Do you feel he might be drinking too much? I don't want to make something out of nothing, but a man who bikes to work and eats healthy foods, but is still out of shape, is getting an overload of calories from somewhere, and the beer is the likely source.

You may need to have a conversation with your H about his drinking habits. Clean that up and your attraction to him will follow.

The answer to your question is no, it is practically impossible to change your needs. It is much easier for us to change our behavior than it is for our spouses to change how they feel about our behavior.

It looks like you're going to need to tell him you're not comfortable with his current weight, and ask him to change his habits so that he will lose weight.

Have you guys considered working out and dieting together? How much time do you spend together?

The issue is not with the beer. The beer becomes a problem when it's combined with food or calorie containing liquids. Food will not digest when the body is metabolishing alcohol. For men, typically fat accumulates most noticeably in the stomach. So if your husband is going to drink then he shouldn't eat. It would also be a bonus if he were to cut his drinking down to one evening a week or an evening every other week.

Have you brought up joining a gym? many of them have child areas where your kiddos can hang out with other kids, play games, etc while you two workout. You two could train together or you two split up, get your 30-60 minutes in and then go home to supper. If you plan your training session effectively, 30 minutes can be more than enough. Riding a bike for 10 minutes twice a day is not going to do the trick.

The other thing is if he's gaining fat, then he's eating too many calories. Healthy is also relative...a lot of people don't really have a clue what helathy eating looks like.

There are also a lot of stuff that can be done at home with no or little equipment...stuff like a chin up bar or a tree with a branch to do pull ups, home built sandbags, etc. Here's a link to a training site. The guy primarily does bodyweight exercise or using easy to make implements. www.trainforstrength.com

Here are a few blog articles I've written
http://fitnesstogether.com/yukon/blog/6060/how-we-get-fat
http://fitnesstogether.com/yukon/blog/6109/nutrition-101
http://fitnesstogether.com/yukon/blog/6139/complex-vs-fundamentals-and-fat-loss-part-1
http://fitnesstogether.com/yukon/blog/6071/regulating-that-appetite

markos, thanks for answering my question. I was hoping to go that route. I'd much rather have to do the work to change me at this point. I don't want pa as one of my high needs. But, to answer other's questions, he does not have a drinking problem. He enjoys some beers on the weekends. I really don't keep track so I'm guessing but maybe he has 4 beers on Friday, 4 on Sat. I don't know. It just has to be where the calories are coming from because we eat about the same amount. I really don't want to, and in fact, am not going to ask him to change at this point. He knows how I feel about it, we've had the conversations, I've already done enough damage to this beautiful man that any woman would be lucky to have. I just can't see the point of talking about it anymore with him. He already knows. I don't think we need to diet together, we already eat very healthy. If it were his choice we would eat burgers, brats, and potatoe salad but I'm mostly in charge of cooking so we eat healthy. I just can't see where he can fit in anymore exercise. He goes to work at 6am and returns home on a good night by 6pm, but often later than that, in addition he is working on his doctrate degree. Many nights he comes home at 6 to dinner, eats, spends time helping get the kids in bed, and then works more. He needs to to keep his job, so cutting back is not an option. We just changed his job so that he could spend more time with family. He gets about 10 more hours a week with us than his previous job.
And, completely off-topic but why when I type this it with every stroke reverts back to the top of the page so Ican't see what I've typed and the page flicks all over the palace. It is really hard to type.

kilted thrower, thanks but access to a facility is not a problem, we live in a condo with a small gym, we live where we can run outside year round and we have a live-in helper so childcare is not a problem. The problem is a time thing. He is working 12 hour days, or more in a stressful job so I can't and won't put anymore stress on him to add yet another thing to his day, so maybe I'm just stuck, because I know soon I'm going to get a log over the head from one of you saying "well, if you're not willing to tell him, then you'll just have to deal with it." Which I understand, I was just hoping I could change, not him. But I will say I really can't figure out how we can eat the same and he is at the weight he is at. It doesn't make sense. thyroid?? I think he has had that all checked and he is healthy.

kilted thrower, as far as healthy eating goes, I really think we eat very healthy but I'm ALWAYS in hunt of healthy recipes that I feel good about feeding my family so please post your ideas on healthy meals, or websites, apps. etc..to help in that area!!

ace, and that is what markos is trying to explain. You don't change what you find attractive because it is an emotional reaction. I am sure you would have already changed that if you could. You can't.


Look in your URL box at the top of the page and look to the right for the little broken page. Click on it and it will fix that problem.

Well, Ace, if 1-2 hours per week is too much time to fit in for somethign that will make him feel better, look better, and possibly increase his longevity, then I don't know what to tell you.

If he eats as much as you do, it's very possible he's eating too little which is causing his weight gain.

M-F I go in the morning to coach swim practice, then go to my school teaching job, then go coach the high school soccer team, then go to work at my personal training job. In addition, I am responsible for several senior students final senior essay projects and I maintain a blogging schedule (albeit it's a paid position).

I'm also finishing up my masters degree program. And part of my masters program involves having to work as intern in a sport related business, entitiy, or corporation.

I still manage to make it to the gym or get exercise in.

If you train right, you can be in and out of the gym in 20-25 minutes.

So it's up to you and your husband what you do. Being busy is an excuse. I understand the busy days of 12 and 15 hours. I also understand making priorities. Anyway, you don't have to justify to me why he won't get in the gym or why you won't be honest and approach him about this issue. I think honesty is more important. And if something was bothering me about my wife, she would much more prefer that I be honest with her even if it hurt her feelings initially than try and deal with it and let it become a resentment down the road.

Stress adds fat. What can you do to relieve his work stress? Minimize expenses? Is he in a job he loves? Most people don't feel stressed doing work they enjoy.

Ace, do you stick to healthy carbohydrates? For example, foods like white potatoes, bread, corn, sweets, etc, are very fattening. A good healthy diet consists of something like this:

Breakfast
scrambled eggs with real butter and heavy cream
bacon or sausage

OR if you are in a rush, 2 pieces of string cheese

Lunch
Grilled chicken salad with yellow cheese and blue cheese dressing
unsweetened tea

snack: almonds or macademia nuts

Dinner
12oz ribeye
broccoli
tossed salad with ranch or blue cheese dressing

I have tons of very healthy recipes that eliminate unhealthy carbohydrates and speed up metabolism. A really good resource is obesity doctor, Michael Eades, M.D. blog. He has some great ideas about healthy weight loss: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/resolving-to-diet-in-2012/

here is the webpage for the posting problem: http://www.west-wind.com/Weblog/ima...0fa2f0f9-9548-4516-b801-45bcc70aa8d9.png

Ditto!!

On those links, they are links to where you can view other blog entries. There's a ton of recipes in the nutrition section. I also posted in there some recipes for healthy side dishes, desserts, and making your own salad dressings. I'd work on posting more recipes but I don't have a lot of time to do extra writing. I'd really recommend that you go to http://www.precisionnutrition.com/ and look at ordering their cook book Gourmet Nutrition. It's fantastic and aimed at physique minded people. I can't praise Dr. John Berardi's book enough. I own this book and like it enough that I've ordered others as gifts for family and friends.

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/products/books/gourmet-nutrition

Oh! If you go here http://www.drclay.com/set-your-metabolism-on-fire/ he offers a free e-book. You just have to submit your email and he'll shoot it off to you. It is fantastic. It gives eating suggestions, a weekly eating setup, etc etc. The guy knows his stuff.

great links, will check them out and order book, I did just get Jamie Oliver's cookbook but lots of meat recipes and I'm not crazy about meat at every meal. Thanks for the links, can't wait to look at them. Looking at what Melody posted for food, yes, we eat healthy. And, I get that I can't change my needs. I was hoping, but I get. And it really does seem like we should be able to find 2 hours a week to work out. I do but he needs to find what time works for him. Kilted, one question and I'm not being sassy but with all your "stuff" going on do you and when do you spend time with your family?? Just curious. We love to spend time together and just feel like we can never get enough of it. Time for him and I, and time with the kids. And, thanks for the url fix, broken page thing, I think it worked, much easier to type!

I'm home all on Saturday and Sunday. My evening schedule varies between me being home between 6pm and 8:30pm through the week. I'm also home by 5 on Fridays.

So Monday through Thursday can be quite hectic. So the kiddos might not say see me much on Monday...say like 30 minutes but then I get home earlier on Tuesday so we can have supper and family time, etc. And I am home all day Sat and Sun. One priority I do make is to get 15 hours of time alone with my wife. While it is important that the kids spend time with me, it's an absolute must that my wife and I have that time to connect. The kiddos will be fine not seeing dad once or twice a week because I'm getting home late but it wouldn't be so if mom and dad weren't in love and there was stress and a disconnection between the parents. On the days I'm home past when they go to sleep, I make sure I call and talk to them a couple times through the day and evening.

Luckily I'll be done with teh last of my classes in April and then just have to concentrate on internship during summer when I'm on paid summer break

And, one more question regarding pa. I find having pa as a high need fairly depressing because as much as I would like to say people are just as or more attractive at 75 as they were at 30 or 40 I just don't think they are. So, what happens to all those people who have pa as a high need and they get "old." How do they all cope with that? I'm just wondering and realizing that even if dh looses weight, as we age we all tend to sag or show more "imperfections." I just don't feel that at 70 we will be able to keep up the fitness level enough to meet my pa needs (like a well-toned belly.) Am I waay off base or does pa become more and more of an issue for people as they age??

Perfectly good question. Dr. Harley does address this. One has to maintain reasonableness in their expectations. For example, if weight bothers teh husband/wife, then the otehr spouse should keep the weight off. Just because we get old doesn't mean we have to be fat. My grandmother is 78 and still jogs up to 5 miles a day, goes to the gym to lift weights a few times a week.

Jack lalane was still in great physical shape in his 80s. Maybe "ripped abs" might be unrealistic but not being fat isn't an unreasonable expectation.

But if you expect your spouse to look like a supermodel at 80, then that is unreasonable. In other words, if it's impossible, the expectations might be a bit high.

Ace, I think Dr. Harley is pushing 70 or so, and still works pretty hard to maintain his weight. I think I've even heard that his wife, Joyce, has a high need for an attractive spouse.

To have a good marriage, both partners have to learn a way they can be enthusiastic about meeting each other's needs. The approach you are investigating here, trying to alter your needs, is pretty much impossible. If it were possible, Dr. Harley (a behavior psychologist) would have a thriving business teaching people how to do it.

What is so hard about being open and honest with your husband about your needs? I mean, I can see why that would be hard, but it's easier to learn to do that than it is to try to alter what turns you on.

Are you a little bit scared of your husband's reaction if you reveal this need to him?

Ace, have you read the Basic Concepts here?

While a 70 year old might seem unattractive to you now, it won't seem unattractive when you are also 70. Just because a person ages, does not mean they become unattractive. I think Dr Harley is around 70 years old and he discusses how he pays close attention to his appearance by watching his weight, etc. One of Joyce's top needs is PA too.

At the Marriage Builders weekend seminar, Dr. Harley spoke to us about how he has to fill the fridge with frozen dinners and stick to those, so he keeps his calories completely controlled and controls his weight.

You seem to be mistaking "attractive" for "perfect." A body doesn't have to be perfect to be attractive.

And Dr. Harley has said that tastes change as you age. I've already seen this in my life -- the 18-20 year olds I use to would've thought of as hot just look like punk kids to me now.

And I've seen 70 year olds with well toned bodies. It all depends on the work you put into it.

ace,
I've wondered about this too. I also asked here some months ago if EN's changed over time or with various circumstances and the answer was "yes, to an extent" -- however, I don't know if that answer would apply specifically to PA.

I also wanted to add a different spin that was occurring to me as I was reading your thread. It relates to a radio show topic where Dr. Harley was talking about men who have "sexual addiction" and do things outside of marriage bond to satisfy their impulses. The basic answer was that the man would need to make the wife his SOLE object of that impulse behavior for the problem to be "fixed."

Apply that to PA. Are there comparison points between your husband and other men? I think with PA it's easy (especially in this culture) to set awfully high standards. I think my GF is attracted to me and has a reasonably high need for PA but I hope she doesn't spend too much time thinking about what it would be like to date the cover dude on Men's Health magazine - I'll never match up!

Also, something that hasn't really been addressed here, with the focus on the weight: what else does your husband do to make himself attractive to you? Does he dress sharply? (I know when I was in school it wasn't a priority). Does he groom a lot? I know some guys who are a bit overweight who make the women swoon because they know how to put themselves together.

just some thoughts.

optimism

From my teenage years, I have only been attracted to men of normal weight. PA is usually more about maintaining a normal weight than about having a pretty face. I always knew that if the man I married gained weight and became fat, I'd have a problem with it. I wished for many years it wasn't that way with me, because my H gained 50 pounds over the next ten or so years we were married. His extra weight was something I always had a hard time with, and I'm not a shallow person or fixated on male models from magazines. All I wanted was a reasonably slim husband.

So now, finally, my H has been working on losing weight. He has gotten himself down to what I consider attractive, although he's still about 10 pounds overweight according to weight charts. I am SO delighted with this and complement him frequently and run my hands up and down his body, which he loves. SF is frequent, because I'm truly attracted to him again. It's not that I ever wanted a "hard body" with washboard abs and big arm muscles. Just a nice normal-weight body is great.

Dr. Harley recommended that we should be exercising together and eating less calories AND that we'd probably have to give up eating what he calls "tasty foods," which encourage us to overeat.

Although I'm of normal weight, I did this with H and it has really helped H--and it keeps my own weight easily in line. We drink no wine or beer at all as of a month or so ago, and we very much enjoy our glasses of wine. But we had to think what we loved more. So we gave it up, for now, at least. We work out in the gym together, which H proclaims makes the world of difference in his motivation.

For meals, we eat very simply: fish and vegetables, meat and vegetables, no desserts.

We eat a hot breakfast, and I make H a hot lunch every day for him to bring to work. After working out in the gym, we get home around 7PM, with our appetite subsided with the recent workout. So we just enjoy maybe a bowl of soup (Progresso makes pretty decent soups that are low in calories.) Sometimes we don't even eat dinner. I make us latte tea, which is heated frothy skimmed milk sweetened with stevia and a nice flavored tea.

In place of eating a full-on dinner, we sip our teas while playing a favorite game.

The biggest problem we have with what we do is that it doesn't match up very well with what everyone else does here, which is late dinners and nearly every social event geared around food. But for the most part, we can make it work.

The results are very rewarding for both of us.

Quick question; are you doing anything or going anywhere that you may be creating a contrast effect?

Ace1,

Well speaking as someone who you might categorize as "old" I will tell you that people's perception of what is good looking changes. I still would find a young model attractive or a young movie star, but the reality is that I would NEVER be attracted to them. You see attraction involves more than just PA as you age you will see that more. My W who is in her 60's is very attractive to me, probably would not have been when I was 30. My W was very thin when we married, and she is still not fat, but she has some weight around her midsection. She has had 3 children and she is in her 60's. I find her carrying this weight in her midsection attractive because she is all woman. And she is MY woman. I don't want her starving to look like she did at 20. I don't want her with 6 pack abs like some guy. I want her to be a woman...more importantly a happy woman. She eats well, and she is very active, and she smiles. And don't even get me started on the BMI index because it is pure and simple bogus science with little validity.

Ok, now speaking as a scientist, let me say gaining weight is about eating more calories than you burn. It is that simple and it really doesn't matter what you eat, never mind, the current dietary theme of the month. Stress helps put on weight via people eating/snacking more, eating comfort food, and changing the metabolism. Your H works a full time job, he is working on his PhD which is stressful and is intended to be in most fields, and he is married with a family.

I don't know much but I do know he is STRESSED. Further, 1-2 beers is equivalent to an hours workout if not more. So is a candy bar, etc. So even if he worked out more he isn't going to lose the weight. He will have to eat less.

Although he may be bigger than you, right now given what you have said you probably lead a more active life and burn more calories, thus can eat MORE than he can and maintain weight.

So let's address this PA. I agree a need is a need, but you will find if you read the infidelity forum for long that peoples NEEDS change with their perspective. Talk to someone who's spouse has had an affair (yes even men) and you will see that needs change. Most men would not say communications with their w is a high need, but after their W having an affair, you better believe that most would list communications and HONESTY much higher than before. Physical attractiveness often slides abit as well.

If you are looking for a man with no physical "imperfections", then perhaps you need to divorce your H and find the perfect one. But, often those without physical blemish are very "imperfect" on the inside. It is really your need and your call, but I have to ask why did you married your H?

I am not trying to convince you to change your "need". I am saying examine it and see if your need for PA is actually some combination of other needs that when added to the normal PA need is making yours seem more extreme than some.

Just thoughts. I hope they help.

God Bless,

JL

Hey, Hi, Mr. JL....

Long time, no chat! Glad to see you here. I don't post much here which is probably a good thing since two "Ace" posters might become confusing.


You're asking how some people cope with the inevitable affects of aging. We've been married for nearly 40 years and our attitudes from our college days are definitely different from our perspectives now regarding our health and bodies.

Here's how we changed them (or how they evolved naturally).

1. Focused on inner qualities and forced negative physical thoughts to be replaced with positive spiritual ideas.

2. Developed our world views together and evaluated how our healthy bodies could help us accomplish those visions and goals as we near retirement.

3. Separated fantasy from reality and established priorities accordingly. (Yes we all could have Jack LaLane abs at 90 but are we willing to put in the time an effort it takes if it detracts from our other priorities --- like playing with grandkids or whatever things are might be on a bucket list?)

Best wishes, Ace1....you're asking difficult questions but keep seeking answers.

_Ace_

P.S. Here's another thread from over a year ago entitled How Healthy Habits help Marriage Recovery that may have some discussion related to what you're asking.

I'm glad you addressed this, JL. I meant to get back to this and got side-tracked.

Calories are units of heat. To lose weight a person needs to take in fewer of these units than they burn off.

Beer is a lot of empty calories that many people add to their regular calorie load. If the calorie load taken in is lower - even with the beer - than they burn off, no weight will be gained. And the converse is true, as well. If a person maintains their weight when eating normally, and then adds beer to their calorie load while exercising normally, weight will be gained.

It's real important in dieting to understand that all calories are not the same. A gram of fat is metabolized much differently than a gram of carbohydrate.

From The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Jeff S Volek, PhD, RD, and Stephen D Phinney, MD, PhD:

Is it Simply "Calories in, Calories Out?

We hear this all the time. The more people hear it the more people believe it must be true. Similar to the phrase "a calorie is a calorie,' weight control becomes deceptively simple. Except weight gain and weight loss are far more complex.

We now know a lot more about macronutrient effects on hormones and gene regulation and how these relate to fat storage and fat utilization. To continue to push the simplistic calories-in-calories-out mantra limits our therpeutic options. This is especially tragic for people who are carbohydrate intolerant. In the long run they will likely fail in making long term diet changes with a low calorie approach which is generally low in fatg and high in carbohydrate. This leads to weight cycling and ultimately a higher body fat. Not only is this physically damaging, but there is also the psychological cost of adding another failure, more guilt because of lack of "will power" and lack of control.

And from "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes

"Of all the dangerous ideas that health officials could have embraced while trying to understand why we get fat, they would have been hard-pressed to find one ultimately more damaging than calories-in/calories-out. That it reinforces what appears to be so obvious�obesity as the penalty for gluttony and sloth�is what makes it so alluring. But it�s misleading and misconceived on so many levels that it�s hard to imagine how it survived unscathed and virtually unchallenged for the last fifty years.

It has done incalculable harm. Not only is this thinking at least partly responsible for the ever-growing numbers of obese and overweight in the world�while directing attention away from the real reasons we get fat�but it has served to reinforce the perception that those who are fat have no one to blame but themselves. That eating less invariably fails as a cure for obesity is rarely perceived as the single most important reason to make us question our assumptions, as Hilde Bruch suggested half a century ago. Rather, it is taken as still more evidence that the overweight and obese are incapable of following a diet and eating in moderation. And it puts the blame for their physical condition squarely on their behavior, which couldn�t be further from the truth. http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/why-we-get-fat/

Excellent point, Mel. I have found that I am able to lose weight faster when I cut down on carbs and load up on non-carb veggies.

Here's a good website for managing weight gain if you're a beer drinker: here

I'm with you! All vegetables are carbs, but the low carb ones are the best for weight loss and are much more nutritious. My favorites are green spinach and green beans.

My bad, duh - I WISH there were NON-carb veggies! I love broccoli and cauliflower. (Did you know that you can make a low-carb version of mashed potatoes by using cauliflower? And it's actually tasty?)

It is awesome! I have had that before.....

Markos-I'm not worried about dh's reaction if I bring this up to him yet again. It is just that we've already discussed it, he already knows my concerns/wants. In fact, this weekend after we went to church he said "I know I've got 3 areas that I need to work on. Working out more, going to church and doing a better job leading our family religiously, and finishing his dissertation. If I can get those 3 things in order I'll feel good about where I'm at." So, he knows, it is on his mind, he is just still trying to work it all out. I just don't feel I need to remind him AGAIN about it because he knows. There is nothing let to say. Why the need to remind him again? We just moved to a new country, he started a new job etc...we are still just settling in and trying to get our routines down. Before we moved he had started working out every weekday (almost every) before work but then we moved and things are all out of whack for a bit. So...I just don't want to put any pressure on him and also, I've already done enough damage to his physical self-confidence so I don't feel like he deserves to be brought down anymore(I was on here before as "stuck in the mud", I just couldn't figure out how to log in as that anymore as it has been so long-but those posts bring me back to a darker time and also discuss this topic, those posts he read and I'm sure that is all a man needs to read to tear them down)." What I've thought about since posting this is my part in all this and what I can do. I realize I can do more to help him without even having to say anything. I am going to try to give him more opportunities to go work-out and I'm going to try to set a weekly schedule that plans for his work out time etc...that way it is scheduled in there and he doesn't feel like he is taking away from family time if is goes off to work out. He says he would like to do it in the morning before work because he never gets to it if it is planned after work. So, I guess I've realized I can help in a way that doesn't just seem like I'm once again criticizing him physically. And, how can I lower my expectations. I mean, I feel like it would really help us sexually if he had a 6 pack but I realize that will never be. He is just not built like that so it would be way too much work and time away from us to acheive that. Is there a way for me to be really realistic about my expectations. I'd like to be just attracted to him and satisfied with him losing 25 pounds.

Markos-I've read the basic concepts, so I understand Open and honest etc.but jeeezz...if I've said it I've said it and he knows it, why say it again? I guess I feel like I've said it, he knows it, he is choosing not to meet it right now, I'm not leaving him so I guess I just have to see how I can be supportive and accept where he is at.
Maybe marriage builders seminar so he can hear it from a different source.
Prisca-I hear what you are saying, I don't expect perfection but I can see why you got that from my "imperfection" statement. And good point, our tastes do change so that is optimistic!!

I'm sorry if you've already answered this and I missed it: do you work out with your husband? Can the two of you do this together?

optimism-good points and I do compare but not to covers (not realistic) but the reason I posted this and got really thinking about it again was because we were at a pool party and 2 guys had their shirts off and looked pretty good. I noticed my husband and one other guy who are a little overweight didnt' have their's off. And I was thinking "boy, I sure wish my dh was comfotable enough and also in shape enough to go shirtless at a pool party and I would find it attractive." I really want to put my arms around him in a nice hug and show affection more often but I have to say when I do, I feel his overweightness and I don't like it. So, I guess that is comparing but not in a sense that I wished my dh looked like that but I wish my dh and I were both comfortable with his body etc..And to answer about other things he does that are attractive to me..He has a gorgeous face, eyes, cheekbones, forearms, big shoulders etc..so he definitely has some attractive features.
Longway, you offer hope for me and my situation and make me feel more normal and less judgemental. I beat myself up thinking "who am I to judge, why can't I just accept him unconditionally?"
Holdherhand-not sure, don't know what you mean, please explain.
Just learning-I knew I never should have used the work "imperfections" lol I knew I would mislead people. I'm really not looking for perfect. But is it unreasonable to think that if my husband is 25 pounds overweight and I have a high need for pa that it would be affecting our relationship and my desire for him sexually???
Ace-sorry to trump your Ace (haha) with my ace1-I couldn't remember by user from before and thought maybe it was Ace until I registered again. I will check out the article and like your thoughts on focusing more on other areas to grow together in different ways.
And finally, we don't work out together. That has never worked for us for various reasons. Some of them selfish on my part (log coming soon from someone..I know) I am not a morning person not not not not Doesn't matter if I go to bed at 9 every night and get up early I still do not fall asleep until 11 at night every night so if I get up at 5 (which is when we would need to work out for him to get to work on time) I don't get enough sleep. But, morning just doesn't work for us because I'm selfish or wired to be to be a night person. And, we have 2 young kids so one of us has always needed to be with them while the other worked out. And, his job hours are really unreliable so he can never guarantee to be home at the same time to work out each night. Excuses??? Maybe, but also very real obstacles and we are striving to find a way to overcome them. I work out after he goes to work each day. And though I don't get up at 5 I do get up at 6:30, so it is not like I'm sleeping in all morning. I get up at 6:30 to get the kids off to school.

Doesn't your gym offer childcare? Every gym I've been a member of offers free childcare.

DH pushes me more at the gym than I push myself, and I love going with him.

Where we used to live we tried a gym with daycare and it didn't work because dh could never get there. He was working 80 hours a week and in school. And, my dd hated hated hated the daycare, it was a nightmare everytime I went and just too stressful for me. But, that is another issue, he just couldn't get there. But here daycare is not the problem (we have someone to watch the kids.) The problem is the time to fit it in. Like I said, he can't seem to reliably do it at night. It is just too hit or miss. He'll do it 2 nights in a row, and then miss 3 because he is caught up in a meeting at work or something. So, he has said he'd like to try to fit it in in the morning, but hasn't done it yet. But..I'm hopeful that he will start soon. In the meantime, I'm just planning to be supportive and make healthy meal choices etc...

From the sound of your husband's schedule, I would say that gym time is the least of the worries for the marriage.

Instead, I would concentrate on 20 hours a week of UA time, at a minimum.

Get in a good solid month of real UA time of 20+ hours a week and the reassess the AS need.

Ya know Mel,

If any of the crap that is passed off as science were true there would not be 10 new diets every year. There is a reason that medicine is NOT a science. Most physicians are honest enough to call it the "MEDICAL ARTS".

I am not saying that different people not have differences body chemical makeup and metabolism. Want to see someone loss weight fast? Put someone who is lactose intolerant on a dairy diet. Many Asians are in fat lactose intolerant, hence they cannot eat what I eat.

But, I live in a state where the subliminal messages is if you "just breath right, exercise right, eat right" you will somehow avoid the pitfalls of being a living human being.

Most of the data used by the experts is seriously flawed. Take the BMI index. It isn't even gender specific. I am in my late 60's and according to the BMI index I should not be here or in good health. Why? I was "morbidly obese" as an 18 year old going to college. I was 6'4" tall and weight 235 lbs. I had a 34 inch waist and easily squatted 650 lbs 12 times for 3 sets, I ran miles, and I literally could walk across the bottom of a swimming pool because I did not float.

Oh I played two sports in college football and basketball.

My point, if there is one place in our society where "science" does not exist it is in the realm of nutrition and diet. The very fact that you can quote so many books and there are so many more books on diet is a very clear indication that little is KNOWN.

When it comes to weight, calories in vs calories out is an excellent starting point. And if you look at the very foods you mention there is a vast disparity in the calories between these food and how much of each someone will eat.

I will end this by pointing out that our nation is on a binge to end obesity. One of the motivations is that it causes more health costs. The most recent studies clearly show that is not the case at all. Truly obese people die younger and quicker with fewer health costs as compared to people that live to old age. REason? my guess few artificial limbs, infections etc. The actual cost of dying stays about the same.

While this a bit far from what you started with my point is still the same. If the folks you referenced actually know what they were doing, there would be no new books, no new diets and the data would not be what it is.

The basis for the BMI index was from insurance companies and as usual leads to a biased set. There is a reason insurance companies are not usually funded to medical research. The don't do double blind experiments for one.

JL

Oh believe me, I realize most of what we are taught about diet and nutrition is just crap. I have been a voracious nutrition researcher for about 13 years. For example, the notion that fat makes fat or "calories in and calories out" is pure nonsense. Other prime examples are the food pyramid and the idea that eggs increase cholesterol. All completely unsupported crap that is easily refuted by a first year endocrinology student - or anyone who does minimal research - who understands basic biology.

But one thing that is important to understand that all macronutrients are not the same. People don't lose weight by counting calories if they are ignoring the macronutrient content. [or rather, lose weight as efficiently] A calorie of carbohydrate is metabolized very differently than a calorie of fat. Excess carbohydrates slow down the metabolism, fat and protein speed it up. So trying to lose weight by eating alot of carbohydrates is like pushing a car up the hill with a parking brake on. Sure calories do count to a minor degree, but it is secondary to the macronutrient make up.

Anyway, if you are interested, some of the very best books, IMO, on nutrition are these:

Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health

and The Art and Science of Low Carbohyd...e Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable

What piqued my interest in this issue was in 1998 I socked on 25 pounds when I quit smoking. My doctor placed me on a low fat, low calorie diet. I lost 2 net pounds in 4 months. [initially lost 4 and gained back 2] I was exercising every day but I felt so sick and tired and out of energy [very depressed too!] that I lived with a daily pounding headache and had to take a nap just to get through the day. My diet started out at 1500 calories per day [30% fat, 15% protein and 55% carbohydrates] A complete flop.

I switched to a low carb diet in Jan of 1999 and increased my calories to 1800-2000 per day. BUT, I changed the mix of macronutrients to 65% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbohydrates. I lost 40 pounds in 4 months and had more energy than I had had in months. I no longer had to take naps.

Studies consistently demonstrate that it is not calories that is the driving force, but macronutrient make up. And of course it would be because a calorie of fat is burned as metabolism whereas a excess calories of carbohydrate is converted to glucose and stored as fat.

There is so much good information out there now that it is hard to not know a good diet from a bad diet. People that promote bad diets are only counting on people's basic ignorance. And believe me, there is alot of ignorance.

Yes, getting older doesn't mean you have to let it all go.

My spinning class is full of 40 and 50 somethings. This is not some easy class either. It's 45 minutes of high intensity spin.

When I look at the Boot Camp classes, same thing. The guys I'm doing Cross Fit workouts with, all of us are in our 40s or 50s.

Hey, gotta stay fit to keep up with our teen kids. Parenting isn't for the weak

I think it's already been said, but it's important to understand that weight is just ONE number to examine.

There are so many more. I eat bacon and eggs almost every day. Total cholesterol number: 162.

Sounds good right?

But my good C is a little low, my bad C a little high, and my triglycerides were a bit high.

So I don't have the everything bagel everyday with my breakfast

I was just reading today about low testosterone. I'm worried a bit because I'm in my late 40's and lost "one of my boys" to cancer back in '94.

Seems the low carb diets can reduce your testosterone levels. That may not be a side effects many guys want for a number of reasons. (One being man-boobs!)

After all, we had the Dr in Kansas I believe, who went on the C-store diet. He limited his calories to I believe 1800/day, but only ate snack foods like Twinkies and other items you would find at a 7-11 or similar store. He lost weight and I believe his cholesterol numbers even improved.

He's not touting it as the way to stay trim. But there is a certain amount of short term truth to Calories In-Calories Out.

I didn't realize how my weight had crept up. I've lost over 40 pounds since the beginning of June. Mostly by tracking what I eat and trying to workout at least 5 days a week.

I'll still have wings this Sunday for the Superbowl. But I'll probably have them naked, no breading

It's all about a good variety of foods, in moderation.

A pint of Hagen Daas is not a single serving. I believe it's four servings. There really isn't anything I'm missing. If I crave something, I plan for it, and control my portions.

It has really helped with sleeping, with staying focused at work, and in the bedroom with my bride. She likes the stronger, fitter me.

My goal is to reach the same level of fitness I had a quarter century ago when I was a young army officer.

So it doesn't get lost in the shuffle - I repeat - A1, you need to first concentrate on getting appropriate UA time in before attacking this AS issue.

From the sound of your husband's schedule, I have doubts you have been maintaining 15 hours each and every week. You should try getting in 20+ hours a week for a month or two and revisit the AS need.

Not getting UA, and then spending time in a gym around fit people is likely creating contrast with your husband.

Ace, how much time do you and your husband spend together each week, just the two of you doing fun things together? I don't mean watching the news on TV, I mean like taking walks together, out to dinner for just the two of you, etc?

EE, call around and find a doctor that is not opposed to testosterone replacement therapy. Then go get a physical with full blood work including testosterone free count.

Going too low on saturated fat will actually diminish testosterone more quickly than carbs.

I had a full workup, and I'm normal. I get pretty detailed hormone and other bloodwork to follow up on the cancer every year, even 18 years later.

Well, I'm on 5000 iu of D3 because I dropped most of my milk consumption and 2000mg fish oil. While milk is healthy, I wasn't doing myself any favors by drinking the majority of a gallon a day. So my Dr put me on that and cut my BP meds in half. Since I'm starting to get dizzy spells when I get up, I'm hoping my next visit, we can drop my BP meds even lower or eliminate them entirely.

I went on them when my Ex wife left back in 2003. I was pretty much a wreck mentally and physically.

Back to the milk. Even skim milk is as calorie dense as soda. Just replacing skim milk with flavored waters was a good start. Finally in the past month or so, I've learned to like plain water as I try to drink 3-4 liters a day.

I went through almost 2L H20 this AM during the spin class and the follow on weight lifting.

Followed by three slices of center cut bacon, and an egg white omelette with green, red and orange peppers, mushrooms, onions and a slice of gouda cheese.

Yummy!

Today, I'll carry some unsalted almonds to snack on as well as a couple of granny smith apples and perhaps a banana.

Ok, folks,

Given that Ace1 hasn't replied yet let me offer something for you all to consider about diet.

Most of you are well aware that the Japanese eat less beef than Americans right? They eat more fish and such. They have a lower rate of heart disease than we do.

Mexicans eat beef, tomales, sea food (if near the coast) and drink tequila/beer. They have a lower rate of heart disease than we do.

The French, bless their pointed heads, eat beef, liver pate', and cook with butter and drink little milk, but considerably more wine. They have a lower heart disease rate than we do.

Eskimo's (sp?) eat whale blubber, meat, and no vegetables and they have a lower heart disease rate than we do.

Do you know what one can conclude from this???????


Speaking English is bad for your heart.

Actually, one would wonder why the Eskimos' don't get scurvy given they don't eat fruit and vegetables. It turns out whale and seal blubber is high in vitamin C.

Many more things to say to Ace1 if she comes back.

God Bless,

JL

Ok, point well taken. We definitely do not spend 15 hours ua a week. I mean, when would we? Our marriage has always been like this as far as time goes except perhaps when we were in college with more time or more energy or something, and no kids! But, I am going to take a good look at how much time we really do spend together and then, how much more we can fit in. He is gone traveling next week for work so it'll have to happen after that. Whether we spend that time together or not I do still think the physical fitness part will be an issue. And, I am so happy that he came home from work yesterday and worked out!! And has it on his calendar to do it again tonight so that is a good start!! I guess I will just keep focusing on trying to support his work outs and create time from him to work out and also, eat healthy. I'm not sure that he fully "gets" it that pa makes a HUGE difference for some people (me.) I mean, he kind of knows that it is a factor for me but doesn't really really see it. I guess I'm not sure what else to say on this post because it is pretty clear where my issues lay and also that we need to spend more time together.

I'll bet you a big, shiny nickel that if you get a month in with 20 hours each week spent giving each other your undivided attention, and meeting the needs of intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment you will feel more attracted and more in love with him than if he looked like a body builder and you continued your current life schedule.

I'm not dismissing your need for an Attractive Spouse, but even meeting that will have a better impact if you start meeting UA requirements.

A1, my wife has centerfold measurements naturally, and I LOVE attractive women, but it didn't mean a dang thing while our marriage was neglected.

I think HHH is right. I heard Dr. Harley say on an old radio broadcast that most people find their spouse more attractive when enough love units have been deposited for them to be in love. He's seen couples look deeply into each other's eyes with "the look of love" who seemed to find each other beautiful who, frankly, were not attractive in the least.

But that said, he says you should speak up about your need for physical attractiveness, and spouse's should try to meet this need for each other.

I would say this information means that if you will make sure to follow ALL of the Marriage Builders policies, that your husband will have a better chance to start meeting your need for an attractive spouse. He'll become more attractive and start meeting that need.

Prisca and I are more attractive to each other when we are meeting each other's needs. We've both noticed and mentioned this, I think.

Why can't working out together, taking walks, jogging, biking or what-not be part of that UA time?

If you can't be overt, be covert. (Not in a bad way.) Just suggest activities that are active. Prepare meals with him that are healthy, etc.

There is nothing that says you can't make getting in shape and eating right part of your UA time, right?

Can you print out the explanation Dr. Harley gives on PA ("basic concepts" on this site)?
Reason: many people don't get the PA thing. There are such conflicting messages floating around about looks in this country that in my view Dr. Harley's concept, while it makes sense, goes against "common" "wisdom".
I think you're on the right track by "supporting" his work outs -- positive reinforcement can be a tremendous motivator. Have you asked him what motivates him?

opt

It is possible. Look at my sig. I have 3 kids fulltime and then when my oldest daughters are over on Fri-Sun, I have 5 kids. I work a fulltime job, 2 part time jobs, and then am also a high school coach. My wife and I still get 15 hours in. There are weeks where we might get 10 or 12 hours in but we get teh 15 hours almost always.

Sometimes it takes work. But it's worth it. You two have to invest in each other in order to survive.

just throwing this out - does DH eat outside of home? some workplaces have food (sweets, muffins, etc) all the time, some ppl's jobs mean they go out to lunch/dinner often, and often a fast-paced, stressful life = fast food on the go. if H is conscious of your concern, he may even be hiding additional eating. even if he's just tucking down one candy bar a day from the gas station or whathaveyou to power the bike ride home, the additional calories there will quickly add up. his day is VERY long, and if he's working on his PhD, he's super-stressed.

may i also add a caution? i think you need to take it easy on additional "talks" about his weight, as it could be a LB for your H. he may already feel pretty badly about how he looks to you, and struggle with how to manage diet and exercise with his current workload.

i'm super-jealous of your facility! my suggestion is that you include physical activity as part of your UA time. get on the rower or treadmill together in the am, even if it means you have to get up at 5am. it's even better if you can do something "for real." roller skating w/you (and the kids, maybe, as family time?) volleyball on the weekend, bike riding, things like that. maybe you could make attempting an event one of your joint goals (for instance, a 50K bike event). don't forget the best joint physical activity - sex!

i think you said earlier that dh will be finished with his doctoral programme in april (he's ABD?)? if you can hold on till then to get him started, it would probably really help, stress-wise. then you can use up all the hours he used to spend on the thesis doing something physical together. he may moan at first, but if you make it about fun (and point out how good he feels after) and avoid talking about his "appearance," you can get him into it.

letty,(fyi, husband not on boards- so not ABD) he does not eat outside the home, no fast food, nothing at work, no lunches out for work etc..in fact, many days he does not even have time to eat lunch. And if he eats a candy bar once every 6 months I'd be surprised. He eats pretty healthy and really does not over do it. I eat more junk than he does. It has got to be the beer that is keeping the weight on. And it is not a matter of convincing him to work out. He likes to work out. He likes to exercise and enjoys all kinds of physical activity. I would say it is more a matter of him making it a priority, which I get and is why I hate to even discuss this anymore with him. He puts in long enough days and has enough on his plate as it is. So, I agree with you that I don't think I need to bring up the weight or anything of the sort to him anymore. But...I do need to somehow help him to fit in exercise without him realizing this is as much for me as it is for him, really for us.
I had another dream of om(mostly a one sided emotionally affair that lasted several years and 7 emails before I ended contact with him-long story which I shared as "stuckinthemud" serveral years ago) last night. Someone once said dreams don't matter and mean nothing but..this dream is always the same dream idea it just plays out in different ways. I hate it, it wrecks my entire next day and throws me off for awhile.
If I contacted Dr. Harley at this point for counseling what would he tell me?
1) spend 15 hours ua a week with dh?
2) ?
3) ?
I am still stuck. I have moved forward from where I was at several years ago but I realize clearly now more than ever that this pa is really putting a block on having the love I want to have for my husband. It is limiting me and I don't want that. I want to love him openly and fully and I'm not sure I can get to that point without the pa fully in place. Is that true?? Does my ability to fully love him depend on how pa I am to him?

also, where is Harley's radio show? I would love to listen to it.
And I am so clearly seeing what a rotten cycle we are in. Several years ago dh said he wanted more sf. This was probably the same time that all this ea stuff came out and we found this site etc...so we agreed to a specific day a week (he would like it more but agreed to this given his work schedule, our crazy life etc..) so I have really really tried to stick to this and have done a pretty good job. But...I know that he would like me to really want it rather than do it happily for him. Know what I mean? But...I am realizing more clearly than ever how much this pa thing is affecting us, my desire for him (or lack thereof) and because of that he gets less sf than he would like and it is just a cycle. I'm sooo confused and depressed today because I feel very out of control of fixing this issue in our marriage. I so badly want to have that over the top feeling of love for him, where I just wrap my arms tight and don't want to let go, but I don't get that feeling and in fact avoid physical contact because then I can feel how unfit he is and it is a turn off. Vicious cycle. He needs more affection from me but doesn't get it because I need more pa. Oh my, this is a mess. Can it be fixed? I'm so sad. I want more from this marriage and he deserves so much more. i realize that though we have, and I believe more me than him (because I had further to go) made progress forward, I am still really just stuck a few notches above where I was several years ago.

I think I found the radio thing.

So, fixing the very first thing... have you begun spending 20 hours of UA time each week?

This is an immediately fixable issue, right here, that will improve the state of your marriage.

Have. You. Begun. Doing. It?

Nope, haven't done it. But do you agree, that is the first thing d. harley would say? Because I considered contacting him but I don't want to start paying for sessions yet if that is the first step/ We will do that to begin for awhile before I contact him. Can't start yet. Dh gone traveling for work.

Ace, you've had numerous posters on here that have told you that the first thing you need to do is to start spending 15-20 hours of undivided attention together.

The other thing Harley is going to tell you is he needs to quit traveling.

kilted, I got it. I just wanted to verify that that is indeed the first, and right now, the most important step. I'm wondering what else can/should I/we be doing? We will begin doing this next week but say we do that, what else should we be doing? I think I'm going to take a look at the questionaires on the site and fill them out. We started to do that back in the day but didn't get too serious about it but now I think we need to.

Something Dr. Harley's been talking about on the show is making sure your UA time is well spent (meeting the top four intimate emotional needs). He gave an example of a man spending time with wife, but ruining it with annoying habits.

So the "else" really doens't need to be an else. Just think about your activities (use POJA) and concentrate on how you treat each other. That should keep you busy.

opt

another subject that came up just yesterday was the mix of endorphins one gets from working out (at the gym) and then how people tend to transfer those positive feelings to those around them.... leading to gym mate romances etc.
A very good reason to work out with your husband (not to beat that subject to the ground, just thought it was pertinent to your thread.)
opt

Here is a simple way to tell how important it is; Dr. Harley WILL NOT work with couples who will not meet the minimum UA requirement.

You don't do UA, you don't do MB.


Simple as that.

UA is the beginning, middle, and end of a Marriage Builders marriage, and if you don't do it, you are wasting your time, your spouse's time, and our time.


20. Hours. A. Week.


This is to begin to build romantic love.