Hard to forgive/forget - what do I do now? - 03/30/12 03:37 PM
I have been married almost 20 years. We have 3 children-2 teen and one pre-teen. Our marriage has never been great, but in the last few years I have discovered things about my husband that have completed changed the way I think about him and broken my trust and I really don't know where to go from here.
He has "flirted" with women our entire marriage, whether it be at work, soccer, previous friends from school, other sports, etc. It is part of his personality, but I never worried a whole lot about it. In the last few years, he started to develop "friendships" with women at work, such as his secretary, or other people that worked with or for him, etc. I started asking questions and he made me feel I was jealous or crazy, yet he would receive texts from her/them in the evenings, on the weekends, etc. I've learned, it doesn't seem to be just one person, he goes through periods of 4-6 months or so with different women--women from sports our kids' play, work, etc. He always claims it's nothing, yet if it bothers me, I wonder why he always defends it so much and doesn't just stop?? Awhile back I accidentally discovered that he had been privately messaging an old girlfriend on FB, whom he knew I had a problem with (due to lying about secretly meeting up with her before we were even married!) He stopped messaging and at my request even unfriended her. 6 months later, I was bored on vacation and looked through his phone browser history (completely innocently) and found he had been searching online for this same girlfriend. He, of course, told me I was insecure and blew it off again, but I can't forget it and things like that keep making 'dings' in the love bank.
Throughout our marriage he has physically and emotionally abused me. I am ashamed to admit it since I have stayed with him all this time. Physically, it typically would happen once a year, but he always apologized and swore he would never do it again. He has emotionally abused me by yelling a lot and saying extremely hurtful and cruel things and has admitted that he knowingly does this. A couple of years ago our son was ill for almost a year. *I* took him to dozens of doctor appointments, tests, procedures, researched the Internet for possible help, etc. and it was a very stressful time. Thankfully he is better now, but it was a very difficult time not knowing what was wrong with him and seeing our son so sick. During a fight, my husband actually had the nerve to accuse me of intentionally making our son sick. Deep down I don't believe that he thought that, but he knows that my kids mean everything to me and it was something that would hurt me deeply. Of course, it did hurt me, more than words can describe.
I feel after reading all of this, that those would have been enough things to make most people give up. I stayed for my children. I grew up with happily married parents and felt I owed it to my children to do the same for them. However, as they get older, I notice my husband getting more and more angry with my children. It's one thing for him to treat me the way he does, but it is completely unacceptable for him to start doing it to them. I have been watching it very carefully and quickly step in if I feel the situation heating up, but I feel that my children are realizing we are taking separate sides and will start using that to their advantage soon, if they haven't already.
I guess for me, the straw that broke the camels back is my recent findings. One day when my husband was away for the day, I needed to use a program on his work computer. I got on with his permission, again, not trying to snoop, but when I was finished with my business, I decided just to check his Internet History. What happened after that sent my head spinning. History going back to December of him looking at women -- half-clothed women, naked women, some not more than 2 or 3 years older than our own daughter, disgusting videos, etc. I know compared to those on this board whose husband's have had an affair, it may not seem the same, but to me, this seems as bad as an affair. I feel completely betrayed. Despite the fact that my husband flirted and talked with women, I honestly never felt he was the kind of person to look at porn or naked women. He knew how much I was against this. If he is capable of this, what else is he capable of?? In looking at the history, he would look at it early in the mornings here in our home - while his WIFE and CHILDREN were up sleeping. He would do it in the evenings while we were here and sometimes when I questioned what he was doing at night, he always told me it was WORK and was annoyed from me asking. He even did it at work on his WORK computer, which is unbelievable to me, considering it could have jeopardized his job. When I finally confronted him, he LIED and denied it completely. Even though I had evidence. He finally admitted back to the month I had evidence, but a few days ago now has admitted it has been going on longer, so he had LIED again the last time I asked. I told him that he needed to get help for it and he told me he would but that he was anxious for me to have a counselor tell me that it is *NORMAL* for guys to do this. I could see in the history everything he searched on. He looked for very specific things, which were shocking. He looked at fantasy-type things that he never has brought up to me and it makes me feel that I have no idea who this person that is my husband really is. It was simply devastating to me. It makes me feel that I am not pretty enough, thin enough or good enough for him and that he had to look elsewhere to fulfill his fantasies. I wonder had I not discovered this, what else could have happened, or if it already has. After all of this, I don't want him to touch me. I have no idea how I will ever have sex with him again, how I will ever compare or live up to these fake expectations or images he has in his mind. That area of our marriage already had difficulties, so this has completely ruined it.
I feel that I have put up with so much in our marriage and don't know if I can continue doing this for my kids' sake. I certainly am not a perfect person, but am honest, faithful and take care of him and our family. He found the Marriage Builder web site and has sent several links and asked that I read them. I have read a lot of the articles and found this forum. He has printed questionnaires out, but I have told him right now that my LoveBank is just empty and I can't do it. I am numb and feel that I don't even know the person I have been married to all of these years. At this point, I don't think I feel any love at all. I have no idea why the "friendships and flirting" and looking at naked women bothers me more than the physical or emotional abuse, but it does. Maybe it's the lies and dishonesty and hiding things. But it hurts worse. I guess I could put up with hitting or words to some degree, but this latest just makes me feel that I'm just not good enough.
I know I am and I know I deserve happiness, so that is why I don't know if I want to go through with all of this: the questionnaires, the program, etc. I know I should want to try for my kids, but I wonder if it would better for all of us to just end it. I feel in some ways that I have "enabled" all of this to go on for all of these years. If I give in AGAIN and try to work things out, I will give him the impression that I am forgiving him and he can go back to his usual ways. Am I simply still enabling him? I have asked him to get counseling for the porn and anger issues. He hasn't. As I've talked or emailed him the things that have hurt me, he still defends himself, gets angry and yells hurtful things, while in the same conversation asking me to participate in this program?!? It is all so confusing and I just don't think his is capable of changing, without a lot of professional help.
We have struggled with our marriage for a LONG time. More than 8 years ago I suggested a marriage retreat to try and strengthen our marriage and he laughed at me. We have tried to work on things at various times by scheduling dates, but our family schedule really does not work in our favor. We have 3 extremely involved children. They are in multiple activities at once and require us being gone literally almost 7 days a week. They are in school activities, band and travel sports, so we travel during winter AND summer. We are almost always separated and usually each handling 2-3 activities per evening, but the brunt of the running falls on me. We have no family that can help. My mother passed away nearly 10 years ago and my father's health does not allow him to travel the 2 hours to our house. My in-laws (a whole other topic) live 10 minutes from us, but have completely abandoned our family so we only see them at Holidays. We have absolutely no one to help with the kids, which makes our situation more difficult, because I don't know how we will ever devote the time to each other that we need to even try to reconcile. We are LUCKY if we go out on a date even ONCE a year!
Will counseling help me forgive and more importantly FORGET what he has done? Should he get help and show that he is willing and capable of changing BEFORE I try to participate? Am I enabling him to continue his ways if I give in and participate in MB? Is he even capable of changing after all of these years?? I am very sorry this is so long and I have so many questions, but I don't know what to do. I am exhausted and feel that I am slipping into depression, but have 3 children who depend on me to hold it together. I am so hurt and so angry I just sit each day and either cry or go over and over all of the hurt and lies and keep making myself more and more miserable.
Thanks, so much, for any advice!!
He has "flirted" with women our entire marriage, whether it be at work, soccer, previous friends from school, other sports, etc. It is part of his personality, but I never worried a whole lot about it. In the last few years, he started to develop "friendships" with women at work, such as his secretary, or other people that worked with or for him, etc. I started asking questions and he made me feel I was jealous or crazy, yet he would receive texts from her/them in the evenings, on the weekends, etc. I've learned, it doesn't seem to be just one person, he goes through periods of 4-6 months or so with different women--women from sports our kids' play, work, etc. He always claims it's nothing, yet if it bothers me, I wonder why he always defends it so much and doesn't just stop?? Awhile back I accidentally discovered that he had been privately messaging an old girlfriend on FB, whom he knew I had a problem with (due to lying about secretly meeting up with her before we were even married!) He stopped messaging and at my request even unfriended her. 6 months later, I was bored on vacation and looked through his phone browser history (completely innocently) and found he had been searching online for this same girlfriend. He, of course, told me I was insecure and blew it off again, but I can't forget it and things like that keep making 'dings' in the love bank.
Throughout our marriage he has physically and emotionally abused me. I am ashamed to admit it since I have stayed with him all this time. Physically, it typically would happen once a year, but he always apologized and swore he would never do it again. He has emotionally abused me by yelling a lot and saying extremely hurtful and cruel things and has admitted that he knowingly does this. A couple of years ago our son was ill for almost a year. *I* took him to dozens of doctor appointments, tests, procedures, researched the Internet for possible help, etc. and it was a very stressful time. Thankfully he is better now, but it was a very difficult time not knowing what was wrong with him and seeing our son so sick. During a fight, my husband actually had the nerve to accuse me of intentionally making our son sick. Deep down I don't believe that he thought that, but he knows that my kids mean everything to me and it was something that would hurt me deeply. Of course, it did hurt me, more than words can describe.
I feel after reading all of this, that those would have been enough things to make most people give up. I stayed for my children. I grew up with happily married parents and felt I owed it to my children to do the same for them. However, as they get older, I notice my husband getting more and more angry with my children. It's one thing for him to treat me the way he does, but it is completely unacceptable for him to start doing it to them. I have been watching it very carefully and quickly step in if I feel the situation heating up, but I feel that my children are realizing we are taking separate sides and will start using that to their advantage soon, if they haven't already.
I guess for me, the straw that broke the camels back is my recent findings. One day when my husband was away for the day, I needed to use a program on his work computer. I got on with his permission, again, not trying to snoop, but when I was finished with my business, I decided just to check his Internet History. What happened after that sent my head spinning. History going back to December of him looking at women -- half-clothed women, naked women, some not more than 2 or 3 years older than our own daughter, disgusting videos, etc. I know compared to those on this board whose husband's have had an affair, it may not seem the same, but to me, this seems as bad as an affair. I feel completely betrayed. Despite the fact that my husband flirted and talked with women, I honestly never felt he was the kind of person to look at porn or naked women. He knew how much I was against this. If he is capable of this, what else is he capable of?? In looking at the history, he would look at it early in the mornings here in our home - while his WIFE and CHILDREN were up sleeping. He would do it in the evenings while we were here and sometimes when I questioned what he was doing at night, he always told me it was WORK and was annoyed from me asking. He even did it at work on his WORK computer, which is unbelievable to me, considering it could have jeopardized his job. When I finally confronted him, he LIED and denied it completely. Even though I had evidence. He finally admitted back to the month I had evidence, but a few days ago now has admitted it has been going on longer, so he had LIED again the last time I asked. I told him that he needed to get help for it and he told me he would but that he was anxious for me to have a counselor tell me that it is *NORMAL* for guys to do this. I could see in the history everything he searched on. He looked for very specific things, which were shocking. He looked at fantasy-type things that he never has brought up to me and it makes me feel that I have no idea who this person that is my husband really is. It was simply devastating to me. It makes me feel that I am not pretty enough, thin enough or good enough for him and that he had to look elsewhere to fulfill his fantasies. I wonder had I not discovered this, what else could have happened, or if it already has. After all of this, I don't want him to touch me. I have no idea how I will ever have sex with him again, how I will ever compare or live up to these fake expectations or images he has in his mind. That area of our marriage already had difficulties, so this has completely ruined it.
I feel that I have put up with so much in our marriage and don't know if I can continue doing this for my kids' sake. I certainly am not a perfect person, but am honest, faithful and take care of him and our family. He found the Marriage Builder web site and has sent several links and asked that I read them. I have read a lot of the articles and found this forum. He has printed questionnaires out, but I have told him right now that my LoveBank is just empty and I can't do it. I am numb and feel that I don't even know the person I have been married to all of these years. At this point, I don't think I feel any love at all. I have no idea why the "friendships and flirting" and looking at naked women bothers me more than the physical or emotional abuse, but it does. Maybe it's the lies and dishonesty and hiding things. But it hurts worse. I guess I could put up with hitting or words to some degree, but this latest just makes me feel that I'm just not good enough.
I know I am and I know I deserve happiness, so that is why I don't know if I want to go through with all of this: the questionnaires, the program, etc. I know I should want to try for my kids, but I wonder if it would better for all of us to just end it. I feel in some ways that I have "enabled" all of this to go on for all of these years. If I give in AGAIN and try to work things out, I will give him the impression that I am forgiving him and he can go back to his usual ways. Am I simply still enabling him? I have asked him to get counseling for the porn and anger issues. He hasn't. As I've talked or emailed him the things that have hurt me, he still defends himself, gets angry and yells hurtful things, while in the same conversation asking me to participate in this program?!? It is all so confusing and I just don't think his is capable of changing, without a lot of professional help. We have struggled with our marriage for a LONG time. More than 8 years ago I suggested a marriage retreat to try and strengthen our marriage and he laughed at me. We have tried to work on things at various times by scheduling dates, but our family schedule really does not work in our favor. We have 3 extremely involved children. They are in multiple activities at once and require us being gone literally almost 7 days a week. They are in school activities, band and travel sports, so we travel during winter AND summer. We are almost always separated and usually each handling 2-3 activities per evening, but the brunt of the running falls on me. We have no family that can help. My mother passed away nearly 10 years ago and my father's health does not allow him to travel the 2 hours to our house. My in-laws (a whole other topic) live 10 minutes from us, but have completely abandoned our family so we only see them at Holidays. We have absolutely no one to help with the kids, which makes our situation more difficult, because I don't know how we will ever devote the time to each other that we need to even try to reconcile. We are LUCKY if we go out on a date even ONCE a year!
Will counseling help me forgive and more importantly FORGET what he has done? Should he get help and show that he is willing and capable of changing BEFORE I try to participate? Am I enabling him to continue his ways if I give in and participate in MB? Is he even capable of changing after all of these years?? I am very sorry this is so long and I have so many questions, but I don't know what to do. I am exhausted and feel that I am slipping into depression, but have 3 children who depend on me to hold it together. I am so hurt and so angry I just sit each day and either cry or go over and over all of the hurt and lies and keep making myself more and more miserable.
Thanks, so much, for any advice!!