Comfort Zone versus Hoping my W grows

I have something I�d like to discuss.

My W has anxieties. So much so she takes medications for them. She has her comfort zones (don�t we all) and I typically do what I can to help her feel safe/comfortable. I do what I can to ensure I don�t commit any LBs that would make her feel unsafe and lose her love for me. I�m quite certain it is one of the main reasons she chose me as her partner in life.

Her anxieties impact our lives � sometimes it creates conflicts. Some things are just off the table for us as couples. For instance, she will not fly. And seeing I usually have limited days I can take off from work driving to destinations (or other forms of transport) aren�t optimal. We�d burn a good chunk of our time off just getting to, getting back and recovering from the long drive neither of us is wanting to sign up for trips. So we do smaller things instead. Which is OK but there is so much I�d like for us to experience.

Anyways getting off topic.

This weekend we were out with my buddy and his W. Good, good friends. Lovely couple with a wonderful M. My 2 buddies have their captain�s license for sailing. They can take pretty decent sized sailboats out on the Great Lakes. These 2 buddies got their certifications together. So as couples they go out on these boats. They�ve continually asked for us to go with them sometime but up until this weekend she really hasn�t been interested. She�s been afraid.

Mrs Alias has upped her prescription on her meds and she�s stated she�s trying to get over some of her fears. I see her trying.

So during our dinner with this wonderful couple they took over an hour talking to her about it � answering her questions, helping her feel comfortable, giving her reassurances that at any point she�d want to get off they�d do what they could to get her off the boat (save the jokes for tossing her overboard � good laughs there).

When we were alone later she professed her biggest fear isn�t getting on the boat. It�s being on the boat, having a panic attack and being embarrassed in front of our friends. That�s what she fears the most. She says it takes her back to her childhood where she was picked on mercilessly by people who she thought were her friends.

I would so like to make this easy for her. It�s easy for me to say my friends would never do anything to make her feel worse because they are simply fabulous people. And I reassured her I WOULD NEVER ALLOW THAT. She knows this yet says all she can see and feel is the same old thing she�d experienced during those horrible years (before we met).

My fear is that she�ll be so freaked out over what she perceives could happen that she�ll have a tough time enjoying the boat ride. FYI my W loves the sights and sounds of the big water despite being terrified of it and having a fear of drowning in it.

I�m trying to figure out what I could do to make this less stressful for her. She told me her fears in confidence. It�d be so easy to divulge this to my buddy so him and his W could reassure my W � but that isn�t what Mrs. Alias would want me to do. She wants to keep this close to the vest � as she does many, many things. LOL. It is where we differ so. I�m an open book regarding things a lot of things including things that make me feel uncomfortable (yet totally dishonest about my feelings when I�m being hurt by her � go figure). I hate secrets. I often have a hard time knowing what is fair game to say and what needs to be kept secret. So I often just spill the beans and get it out there.

I need to protect my W � I just don�t know how to make this easier for her.

Thanks for listening. Any thoughts?

She is worried about being trapped. Propose an itinerary that sticks close to the shoreline and promise her that if she requests it, you get her onto dry land within an hour (say) with no questions and YOU are the one that says you want to go to shore. You could agree a code word between the two of you?

Another thing that might help her is a taster trip?

I know how you feel Mr.Alias. Feelings, trust, and honesty is so complicated. Think both of you as one, communicate then poja.

Could you start out slower with maybe a trip with just the 2 of you? This may sound silly but fear of having to use the bathroom either where there is none or on a small boat where there's no hiding you going - That can cause anxiety.
My Wife's mom has a boat and we live with access to the water. The couple of times I have been on the boat it's been a lot of fun and I wondered why my wife hasn't been interested, so I asked her and she said - there's no bathroom on the boat - what if we get out there and I need to use the bathroom? We would have to come back and if people were with us it would be embarrasing.

I would drop that plan entirely! Find something else, MrA. You don't want her facing your time together with DREAD. It's one thing to find something that is new but its quite another to push someone to do something they DREAD. Find something that EXCITES HER. You need to find things that make you both look forward to your time together. Otherwise, she will start avoiding it altogether!

And she needs to learn to just say NO. There are lots of things I say NO to for the same reasons. I am not going on a motorcycle, camping, hunting anything that involves heights. I DREAD all of those things and I won't even try them.

I don't view this as a way to "grow" at all. I view this as your wife trying to force herself to do something she DREADS. She will not be a better person for it. She will be a more unhappy, anxious person. And she will associate that unhappiness and anxiety with YOU, MrA. She will associate the feeling of DREAD with you.

I refuse to go camping and no one can convince me that I would be a "better" person or go through some imagined "growth" for doing something I loathe. All that would do is make me miserable.

What I find interesting is that I gave up a long time ago even asking her if she wanted to go on the boat. I am very much OK with us finding other things we like to do together � and we do find other things. So when we were out Friday with this couple and she mentioned Lake Superior and they mentioned sailing she started asking questions. I sat there just listening while she kept asking them more about where they go, how far away is the land etc.

The one thing I did tell her is that we have been on this water because we took a tour of the Apostle Islands on one of their tour boats. That boat took us out to Outer Island which is, of course, the outer most island. Nothing but a big old lake out one side of the boat and this little island on the other. I let her know that isn�t where we�d be going on any sailboat as that is where the water gets a lot more treacherous.

After that hour in talking with them she said �I wanna go!�. I looked at her with a puzzled look. She said it with such excitement. �Really?�. �Yes, you know how much I love the water. How much I love listening to the waves and the water lapping along the shore. And you know how much I love relaxing by cruising on your sister�s boat on their lake. It must be really cool to have a silent boat sailing through the water. �

I left it at that. Didn�t mention anything about committing to them, etc. So now her and I can discuss it more freely. POJA. POJA. POJA.

I guess I wrote because I really wanted to talk more about her anxiety regarding the situation and the way she�d perceive our friends would behave should she want to turn the boat around. They are such good friends and I know they would never say or do anything to make her feel bad or foolish. I�m sure they would apologize profusely for convincing her to go. I tried to reassure her of this. She knows these people well enough and knows they won�t.

Still she says she can�t helping feeling that they would and this is when my W got quite upset. Talking about the past and the way she was treated. I felt so bad for her. The things she talked about how she was treated. Grrrr. Really upsets me that anyone would do that to a person. My W is a sweet person and it makes me mad when people get pleasure out of torturing other people ... especially those that are good hearted people. Granted this all happened when she was a teenager or younger, but still.

She�s upset with herself that she�s let her fear control what she�s done in this world. I am not going to convince her that she needs to DO ANYTHING she doesn�t want to do. The decision is hers and she can say NO at any time including up to the point that we�re ready to step onto that boat. And I won�t go without her.

As far as where we go on the boat they talked about that. My buddy said �Hey, if all you wanna do is cruise up and down the channel of the marina that�s what we�ll do. You won�t know how much you can tolerate and that�d be a great way to start.�

My W says �I really would like to cruise around the islands like you say you do. Find a bay to anchor and sit in the sun.�.

So I�m torn. Just as I imagine what would happen on a plane I imagine what this boat ride could mean for her. It�s not my place to talk her into it or out of it. If she�s on-board, figuratively and literally, then I have to trust it is something she wants to do for herself and not just for me.

We�ve got months to think about this as it�s still frigid here.

Oh and thanks, everyone, for your replies. It helps just to talk this out with each of you.

If your wife fears certain activities then you should not ask her to do them - end of story. You should not ask her to confront her fears, you should not ask her to undergo therapy (I know that wasn't mentioned), you should not ask her to try tiny parts of the activity - you should just leave it alone. It actually seems cruel to persuade her to try something that she is seriously frightened of.

We can live without sailing. Think how many people in the USA - never mind the whole world! - never get to be on a sailing boat, and yet who have happy times. We can also live without flying. I appreciate your point about driving limiting what you can do, but I cannot see for the life of me why someone would want to make his spouse unhappy for a leisure pursuit.

Avoid being the source of your spouse's unahppiness - that's a basic MB tenet. Fying and sailing should be off the table with not another mention ever again from you.

I don't think MrAlias is mentioning these things, Mrs Alias brought them up.

Why is she afraid of drowning? Can she swim? Would swimming lessons make her feel more secure on the boat?

If I can practice my Yoga breathing through a panic attack then it's not noticeable to most people that I'm having one. DH will notice, but I can make it through a meeting or whatever without it being obvious.

POJA it, don't push her, don't bring it up, and don't make her unhappy, but if she's ready to do it then I hope she enjoys it.

I am VERY HAPPY not to have my hair messed up!! thankyew...

Take her shopping and out to Olive Garden!!

Will do. We are starting our remodel project this week so her and I will be doing lots of home improvement/ home interior shopping. We go out to dinner together quite often. That part is hurting our budget � lol.

If she wants to get on a boat (with zero pressure or suggestion from me) then I'll see to it she and I do. I think it will be a lot of fun with people we both like a lot but she has to want to. If she doesn�t then I�ll be sure to protect her feelings and respectfully decline their invitations.

Why does it seem like everybody thinks I'm forcing her to get on a boat? I brought it up to her a couple times a couple of years ago. Then brought it up to her in private again last summer. I asked her if she'd like to, mentioned to her that this couple would like us to, she waffled. Then later she said not really but wasn�t sure, etc. I dropped it.

She brought up the Lake this Friday. They mentioned sailing. She started asking �Tell me about it� questions. I sat and listened. Away they went.

I will be sure to ask her if she�s positive if and when she does state she�d like to book something with them. I�ll be sure she isn�t doing it just because she wants to test her wits. That she wants to do it because she believes she will have an enjoyable, relaxing time. And if at any moment it isn�t for her I will do everything it takes to get her off the boat and avoid embarrassment.

I do think it is important, for me, to test myself. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But, again, that is me and I am not asking her to do anything here. She�s scared, doesn�t want to test her fear, there is no enthusiastic agreement. We don�t make her face her fears. That part is in place. POJA 101.

This probably isn�t the place for me to ask the question about her fear controlling her thoughts. I certainly would like to help ease her pain. She�s vocalized her pain and stress in having these fears. It�s hard for me to know she�s hurting and not be able to help � outside of building our M, of course.

End of the day we POJA. Her and I POJA really well. With this new agreement she feels safe knowing I am not going to make her do anything since isn�t enthusiastic about � as I can�t because that isn�t in our agreement to each other. This newfound safety is evident by the fact she�s suddenly being radically honest about her fears. I mean we�ve been together for 26 years or so and this is the first I�ve heard her say she�s more afraid of being embarrassed then the event that makes her uncomfortable/scared. I always thought it was her fear of injury or death, etc. So that�s cool, way cool.

Mel, she doesn�t like to camp either. ;-)

I knew she was a woman of good taste!

Tell her that sailing will mess up her HAIR and she will be cold and windblown all day!

I think she knows that ... that's why I was so surprised when she said let's do it. Huh????

Sometimes we just get a little crazy because we haven't been shopping enough!

I do hate nit-picking when it misses the whole point, but since you brought it up:

MrsA didn't bring up this conversation that went on for over an hour about sailing. It seems that the couple have friends who like to take people sailing with them, and MrA would like to go with them, with his wife.

So between them, they pin her down and harangue her for OVER AN HOUR about doing something that she has a fear of and would not like to do. I think that is horrible and MrA should never have let that happen, no matter how "kind" the tone of the conversation was. That is getting close to torture for someone who has what the rest of us might see as an irrational fear.

How do you SO fail to see the point that his pressure should not be put on MrsA? Other people don't understand her fears, so they should try by every means to get her to do the things she is terrified of doing?

How can people on MB make such cruel suggestions?

If MrsA wants to overcome her fears because she hates the way they limit her life, then by all means MrA should brainstorm with her ways of overcoming them. But from what he has described, she doesn't want to go in a boat, she is terrified of the idea and does not see it as something that she would enjoy or benefit from.

Take it off the table! Leave it alone, MrA, and do not try to gain your desire at the expense of your wife! I can see that you'd love to go out in the big boat, but she wouldn't.

Oh my! Shopping. Did I mention our budget? Her and I are in the midst of negotiating a shopping budget. Getting new clothes is great but the kids gotta eat. I'm sure you'd like to put in your 2 cents worth on that shop-aholic.

Uhm no. They didn't harangue her. They asked her a simple question. Would you like to go sailing. It was the first time they invited her directly. All other times it was them asking me and me then asking my W.

My W kept asking questions. She kept the convo going for over an hour. My Buddy's W was actually nodding off at the table.

Several times I tried to change the convo, but W kept asking questions. She was definitely interested.

I would just ask her to be radically honest. Tell her that you love her very much and only want her to what is comfortable for her. Tell her you will always love her regardless of what she decides and then ask her if she does want to go, just thought it was interesting but not comfortable with it, just making polite conversation and there is NO way that she would go. It sounds like she MIGHT have been interested but she may also have just been a good conversationalist. Make sure that she is honest with you. Remind her that you can't' be a good husband unless she is. Ask her is she would rather do something else with you instead. Tell her you just want to enjoy spending time with her.

Lovely advice!

I like this.

I tend to keep a convo going and ask all kinds of details, especially if I feel like the person I'm talking to can tell me something I need to know to better my life or overcome a fear (I'm all for overcoming fears-in safe environments of course).

And sometimes I get caught up in the moment and get all excited about doing a thing and then realize later once the excitement wore off that I'm not ready.

The problem I would have, if I were MrsA and got excited about going out on the boat and changed my mind after I thought about it some more, that seeing how excited MrA got about the possibility might breed in me pressure to follow through (no fault of his own, and EVEN if he tried to contain his excitement- that kind of thing often shines through).

So, while I didn�t read it like others did that you were pressuring her, I am concerned that you might pressure her by accident. I�m glad you came here to talk it out.

As to whether or not she should overcome her fear, if she really, REALLY wants to work on this I�m all for it, as long as it�s something you guys do together and (like someone above recommended) done in baby steps such as you two going alone first. I�ve really expanded my life and overcome a LOT of anxiety and anger problems this way. I can give examples if you want. But it has to be done with safe exits every step of the way, and it can only be done if it�s something SHE wants done.

Budget might be tight, but perhaps you can find a charter service that would take you two out for a little bit. Half hour. Hour. Then hour and half. Someone you are paying to drive the boat wouldn�t laugh at her or belittle her because he is at your service. And you could probably take her yourself but this way you are free to help comfort her if anxiety rises up. And then maybe up it to a 2hr dinner cruise on your next vacation. Baby steps. And always from the perspective that you are supporting her (resisting the urge to celebrate because this is something you have been desiring for so long). POJA.

Hope that helps.

Honestly, as a wife you really struggles with radical honesty, it is what I would want my husband to say to me. Part of the reason I am not radically honest, is because I don't trust he will truly love me if I am. He will be disappointed in me. And I can't take that.. I would go with him if it would make him happy and keep him happy with me.. He loves it, he deserves it. Of course, then my love bank would be depleted. The best way a husband could reassure a wife who has trouble with that it is to reassure her of his love and that he loves her more than any hobby or anything.

Tired/Daisy,

Thank you very much for the feedback. All good points.

In all honesty I am not 100% in on the sailboat trip either. I think it would be fun but I'm not jumping up and down to go on this trip. Big water isn't really my thing and being in a boat that can tip 30% to one side makes me a bit nervous.

I do like the option of baby steps and will definitely mention this to her. We�re unfortunate in that we don�t live all that close to Lake Superior but we do live near a major river where there are plenty of sailboats. I�ll have to look into chartering one if she feels she�d like to try it before going on the big water.

So if she doesn't want to go no problemo.

Meanwhile could the darn weather warm up? Her and I would like to get out and do some golfing, walking, yard work, etc. There must be 3 feet of snow on the ground here. Sigh. Why do we live here?

Tired, have you ever been totally honest with him about this? It seems obvious to me that you have a predetermined perception of your H and that is a big DJ. He may be a perfectionist when it comes to certain areas of your lives like Domestic Support and so I�m guessing that is why you feel you can�t be honest about your flaws. To assume that isn�t going to help your R.

I love my W and I realize she isn't perfect nor am I. Far from it. We all have our little skeletons.

When it comes to being honest about her fears and flaws is my W radically honest? My W confessed to me her embarrassment of being afraid of being embarrassed. I was quite surprised by this because she has normally been very open and honest about how she�s feeling and what her fears are. And she�s had quite a few of them over the years. She�s afraid of storms, fires, drowning, she�s afraid when she�s a passenger, etc. She�s talked about her OCD. She�s confessed what I believe to be them all.

And you know what � that is great. It�s the best thing for us. I know what troubles her and it allows me to help her (if she wants my help) which is something I think I get off on doing. Mr. Fixit at times. She needs the comforting and reassuring. Her being honest about it allows me to do just that. I think she learned at an early stages in our R that I was an empathetic person.

Now when it comes to how I�m screwing up � I think she holds those things in more. I think she accepts my LBs as just a part of marriage � at least she used to. But I still see her doing whatever she can to not look like a nag. And trust me I do plenty where she could nag.

That is the one area of this program where I think she hasn�t been able to get into that principal. Radical honesty about everything and communicating my LBs to me.

Then again �. Maybe I am perfect � in her eyes.

I think I�m about due to ask how I�m doing and if there is anything she�d like me to work on or improve.

Actually, if you read further, she did bring up the conversation -




Based on the above quote from MrA, MrsA is interested in sailing. Whatever would help her feel comfortable, if it's something she wants to pursue, he should help her do.

I have my own anxieties, especially after the last 3 years.

I was told spring in Ohio at the lake was beautiful.

What I was unaware of is that it is a beautiful Winter Wonderland!

First off, she didn't bring up sailing, she brought up LAKE SUPERIOR. Her friends brought up sailing. And while she might have shown polite interest THEN, she clearly is not that interested in truth. That is what counts. If she doesn't want to go, she shouldn't go. If a spouse "dreads" an activity, I sure wouldn't pursue it.

A good conversationalist will show polite interest in activities that she may be not be interested in at all. I do it all the time! I call on mostly males and often have a little sports headline from the weekend's sports doings. But I have no interest in sports.

I walked away with the same feeling as Sugarcane. She was just being polite.

What do you think malls are for, silly??

I should help put some more context around this.

Lately my W has been commenting about how she�s tired of living in fear. She�s made the comments about �I�m getting older� and �I�m passing up on opportunities to do more, enjoy more�. It was at that time about 2 months ago or so where she had to go in for a Med checkup and she discussed this with her Dr and the Dr recommended upping her dosage. She was on a very, very low dose.

So when she was discussing and asking prompting questions Friday night I�m quite certain it was her doing what she said she wanted to do. Do some things she knows she could enjoy if she could just experience it (experiment to test the waters � pun intended).

My W isn�t one to make polite conversation when it comes to things she�s uncomfortable with. It�s in her nature to avoid those kinds of conversations. She is inquisitive about things she likes. For instance my sis went to Mexico and they saw some ruins while they were there. Well my W loves history (she�d be in heaven if we could go overseas and visit some castles). My W asked a bunch of questions regarding these ruins. No mention of how we�d get there � that part she wouldn�t want to discuss but she definitely would love to see those ruins.

Anyways I am not going to slow her down. I am sitting back and letting her take the wheel of wherever she wants to go. I�ll be there to help facilitate it if and when she says she�s comfortable with giving new things a try. And yes I WILL show my excitement so she knows how enthusiastic I am. Doesn�t mean she will or needs to sacrifice just because she sees how much I�d like it. PORH.

Here�s the thing. We�re not supposed to do anything we aren�t enthusiastic about. I really, really dread shopping with her. For a bunch of reasons.
1). My feet and back can�t tolerate standing and walking for long periods of time.
2). When she shops she roams and looks and roams and buys all kinds of things knowing she�s going to take half of it back. Which means another trip back to the shop, etc. I know what I want and want to get in and get out.
3). When she shops she gets frustrated with other shoppers who are �in her way�. That really doesn�t make it enjoyable to shop with her.
4). She�ll make me hold her purse in the lingerie section!!! ROFL.

So while I�d love to make deposits in her bank shopping is one area where her and I do it � but not with a lot of regularity. I just get in her way and I don�t enjoy it.

Even shopping for things WE want is difficult because we are so different.

Right now we�re spending a bunch of time looking at images of remodeled homes and finished basements as we�re in the process of finishing our basement off. We�re both excited about what we�re going to create and look forward to finding things to fill it with once it�s done.

MrAlias,

totally off topic, but have you seen Houzz.com? It's like Facebook for your house, we love pinning ideas to our boards on Houzz.

t/j over

YES!. We've been using that for quite some time now. I've got lists of different areas that I've pinned images to. Fireplaces, bookcases, bars, etc. Pretty cool site.

There are some beautiful homes on that site. Sure wish I was loaded!!!

As I see it, this is coming down to Mrs. Alias' attitude and wishes.

In re: "big water" sailing, is her attitude, "I really want to try that, but I am afraid."

Or is it, "Intriguing! I can't imagine it, please describe it to me for my curiosity's sake."

Or is it, "Why on earth would anyone want to do that?"

Until Mrs. Alias properly communicates her attitude, Mr. Alias can't know how to support her.

For the record, Taffy and I spent 5 years sailing our 40' boat around North and South America - including Cape Horn. We were both scared silly quite a few times, however never did we wish we hadn't done it. I regret the things I haven't done, because of fear or embarrassment or laziness or bone-headedness, far more.

I would say you have a narrow road to walk here, being encouraging and admiring of your wife's desires to accomplish new goals in life, without stepping into any areas that would be seen as pressuring, judgmental, or disrespectful.

So: after your wife tries something new, you make a value judgment about how great it was that she did it.

Before your wife tries something, don't express any value judgments at all. It's not "growth." Choosing not to try it doesn't make anyone less of a person, etc. Expressing value judgments is the key to both admiration and disrespect.

As an example, I support and admire my wife's tremendous effort over the last year and a half to lose weight, but I make sure not to express positions that would be pressuring or disrespectful.

I suggest wildcat oil stocks.

Markos, where in the heck have you been? I see you drop in from time to time but we�ve had zero contact in the last couple of months.

Good to see you. Thanks for chiming in. I love your advise here. Super things that you bring to light about courses of action for me. I have to be cautious of my actions. Just because I know what feels right for me doesn�t mean the same thing for her. And I don�t want to lay down my expectations/hopes for her.

All I can hope for is that she�s happy and I must be wary to keep that goal in mind. What is it that she�d want from me that would make her happy. I�m sure me lecturing on the benefits of pushing oneself won�t be one of the things that make happiness happen for her.

So far I haven�t used any phrases to her in terms of �growing�, etc. So I think I�ve avoided doing that type of damage. I normally am more closed to off to pointing out where I think she can improve � not always but certainly the important, touchy areas. However I have failed in one area and that is in past behaviors of trying to educate her on the principals of this site and what I�d hope for her � and for I. Counseling released me from that poor behavior.

Sorry, MrA. Glad to be back. Lots of life changes going on at the moment.

Life Changes huh? All for the good I hope.

Couple downturns, but mostly for the good at this point.