My husband and I have been working on the steps here and I feel we are making good progress. I need some advice on this topic that is special to my situation. After my oldest daughter was born I became hypothyroid. It took a long time to identify the issues, get treatment and get my meds adjusted...about 2 years. Some of the symptoms are lethargy, brain fog, depression, etc. It was very hard for me to meet basic everyday needs for my self and my daughter during that time never mind the emotional needs of my husband. Once I got well I was pregnant right away. That came with another 9 months of obstacles due to my hypothyroid and high risk pregnancy. After that I was feeling OK, meds adjusted well but taking care of the baby and my older child was taking a lot away from US. Things were going well and I was meeting some of his emotional needs especially domestic support. Last April my youngest daughter got sick, I spent the night in the hospital with her and she had to get a chest x-ray...I had to hold her because she was little and I forgot to ask for a neck cuff to protect my thyroid from the radiation...it may have completely killed my thyroid and everything went back down hill. I have been working with my DR to get the meds adjusted accordingly but it's slow going I'm all most back to where I should be and starting to feel better. It will likely be perfect in another 6-8 weeks. For the rest of my life there is always a chance I will go through time periods of adjustment with my meds sometimes it is very hard for me, especially if the meds are way out of whack to even function. I want to meet his emotional needs but physically when I'm doing all I can to simply get out of bed it's all most impossible for me to do all the things. I always work with my Dr, I'm always trying to make sure I am well but circumstances happen beyond my control. During these times our relationship suffers a great deal. I certainly don't want to be sick and I certainly don't want to neglect my husband but he has a hard time when my health is in a down turn supporting me because his emotional needs are not being met. How do we work around this? How do we work through this is my health changes again?

Sorry to hear you have hypothyroid issues. I also have hypothyroid issues. I have found over the years that the synthetic thyroid meds never helped me - Synthroid (T-4) or Cytomel (T-3). Compounded Armour from a local pharmacy didn't help me either. I have resorted to WestThroid or NatureThroid and they have evened out my symptoms and my TSH, Free T-4, and Free T-3.

The best information I have seen on thyroid conditions is from stopthethyroidmadness.com, and there is a book of the same title as the website. Are you sure it is only your thyroid that is causing the symptoms? Do you have a good doctor helping you?

I have fired 4 Dr's so far for refusing to increase meds with less than perfect labs results. The Dr I'm seeing is OK but I'm thinking of changing again. I need someone who is willing to run full panels and not just TSH. I have done tons of research on the topic and many Dr's tend to ignore a lot of the newest research. I recently got a recommendation of a endocrinologist who runs full panels and tries to stick to the natural meds. I recently switched from generic levothyroxine to name brand synthroid due to the meds giving me horrible headaches. When my thyroid is off my BP is off. Also the weight gain. I tried all summer to lose weight but I ended up gaining 3 lbs. The weight I've put on is causing me to fall in the pre-diabetic range. More than 1 endo said if I lost some weight I would likely fall out of the prediabetic range. I've been trying to move towards a more holistic natural life style for my health including changing my diet to a more whole foods and raw foods plan. I want to get a reverse osmosis system for our water to remove fluoride which is an issue for people with hypothyroidism. I've really been working hard on my health but is goes so slow. I'm afraid that switching over to natures thyroid will prolong me getting to a good place, it might be better for me but I maintain a TSH of 3 on levothyroxine before, I felt good at that time.

Hi MOTG.

I have thyroid issues too. I was on both Levo and Synthroid and they didn't work at all for me. My labs looked good, but I still felt like crap and had no energy.

I've been on NatureThroid for almost a year now and cannot recommend it highly enough. I feel so much better now that I am taking a natural thyroid replacement. I have more energy and have no issues with my weight. The only thing I still have trouble with is hair loss.

I would strongly encourage you to give natural thyroid replacement a try. The synthetic drugs generally only provide T4, under the assumption that the body will convert the T4 into T3, but for many hypothyroid patients, that simply doesn't happen. It really didn't take long at all for me to start feeling better after I switched to natural thyroid.

A TSH of 3 is actually quite high. I find that I feel best when my TSH remains around a 1, and that is what I generally aim for.

If you are on Facebook, check out the group "Thyroid Sexy." There is lots of great information on there and a place where people post the names of doctors they recommend. I know it can be difficult to find a good doctor, but keep looking until you do. I've had to change a number of times. It's important to be your own advocate with this illness. Many doctors are seriously behind the times when it comes to treating thyroid issues.

I love our R/O system. You can get one for under your kitchen sink that is much cheaper than a whole-house system.

The "stop the thyroid madness" lady has a list of doctors on her website that will work with you. It is very difficult to find a good doctor. I have seen 4 Endo's and they couldn't help me much, so I went back to my family care physician. I agree that most doctors don't stay up on the research. I will take my doc any new research because his wife also has thyroid issues.

Yes, you need to run all the labs because TSH alone won't show everything going on. You already know that good health isn't about your labs, it is also about how you feel. (But your doctor isn't thinking about that any more.) Keep at it until you find a good doctor. Ask your friends and neighbors for recommendations. A good doctor is worth his/her weight in gold because you will feel better and you will have a better outlook.

Are you sure it is just your thyroid and not sluggish adrenals?

I have been reading about adrenals lately but Haven't looked into it too much yet. My holistic Moms group recommended a Dr not to far from me so I may give her a call. I have found a TSH of 2-3 is Ok for me. TSH of 1 and I started getting hyper symptoms.

I had posted yesterday about my thyroid issue and how to maintain emotional needs when I have issues with my meds...I want to pose a different question. I'm trying to see a new DR and make a change in my meds switching from synthetic to a natural meds. I think there may be an adjustment period where the new meds will have to be tweaked. One of my husbands EN's is domestic support and that need isn't always met when I've had issues with my thyroid due to the condition. I want to help him/us have a plan in place to help him get through any period where I can't provide the domestic support he needs. Maybe we can ask for some help from family members so it's not all on him during that time. I'm not sure what else we can do. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

MOTG, it is such a small need that I would not worry too much about it. You can POJA it with him and make arrangements to hire a cleaning lady or get family help.

The larger concern would be meeting his INTIMATE emotional needs, the EN's that are the foundation of romantic love. How are you doing with undivided attention time, where you meet each others needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment? That should be your main focus while you recover your marriage.

Also, can you please stick to your initial thread and have the mods combine all your threads? It is hard to give you advice and follow your story if you have multiple threads.

Should I just link the other thread her? Sorry the thread fell dead so I thought a new one with new question would help.

We are working on getting up to at least 15 hours undivided attention time. A few things are causing issues.

My toddler is refusing to go to sleep...for months now she has went to sleep at 8:30 now all of a sudden she is fighting sleep hard. My husband works early in the morning at 5 am and doesn't get home until 5 pm or so at night. so asking him to stay up too late is hard all though he stayed up until 11 PM with me last night. I suggested this morning I can get up when he gets up in the morning at 4 am and help him with breakfast and hang out until he leaves...he didn't want to make me do it but said it good if I want to do it.

affection is going tremendously well. He has really stepped up there and I have reciprocated.


His biggest issue through my illness has been domestic support though which is why I went to this place. It causes him great stress if he has to come home from working a long day and do things I was unable to because I was too tired.


Previous thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2770348#Post2770348


conversation is getting better. He tells me about his day and things that he is interested in. I've been listening and trying to appreciate what he is saying even if it's not something I care too much about. He's has been listening to me but I haven't brought any of my personal topics of interest that he has shunned before because I have been working so hard with the steps here and reading.

recreational companionship...a work on progress. Money is tight but I have been working on some things for us to do together and sharing the information. With him working so much it's hard for him to research but he does want me to go to the movies with him and that was his plan for RC so he is putting in effort.

I think sexual fulfillment is fine...it was actually an issue I had more than him. His deal was that he is tired from work but he has made an effort to meet my needs there.

I don't now why when I edited it jumped my link into the middle.

MOTG, I would plan your UA time out of the house at a time when you both have the most energy. 4 - 4 hour dates would get you there. I would use the worksheet and start making plans with him. (in the questionaire section) UA time after 10pm is pretty useless because you are both exhausted and it can hardly be considered a date. UA time at home is very ineffective when you are not in love because it is too easy to get distracted by just about anything. And who feels romantic when you are sitting on the couch with your sweats on without makeup?

UA should be spent on DATES out of the house in 2-4 hour blocks.

I can understand that DS is important to him and I agree it would be a lovebuster to not o it. But it is not key to the romantic love in our marriage because it is not an intimate emotional need. He did not fall in love with you because of DS in other words.

I would take movies off the list entirely, because it is not UA time. Have you read the MB material about undivided attention?

Yes I have read the MB material about UA. We can likely get one night a week out of the house but we have two children. We are currently financially strained. I babysit a little boy during the day to make some money but his Mom got really sick and was in the hospital...I lost a lot of pay over the summer and our saving dwindled because of it....now we are scraping by. The cost for a sitter and even for a date out of the house is hard to come by right now. If I were to put both children in day care and work full time we'd make less money than we are making now...it's really a crappy situation. I have a couple friends who have me in mind for child care which would make money issues reasonable again and we could start saving again. He wanted to see a movie with me and I don't want to shoot down his efforts completely. I have been looking into some activities we can do at home or inexpensively. I also have been trying to make sure I'm dressed and hair and make is done even if I'm just staying at home with the kids.

I'm also looking into a childcare swap with a friends and maybe her and I can take part time jobs during the day to keep my nights open. I logistics are difficult though. the only days I don't babysit each week right now rotate so coordination is an issue.

I would take a more proactive approach and see if you can join a coop or exchange babysitting with other couples. Do you have any family close by who can help? You really need to find a way to make this work. And please do not squander your meager UA time on movies.

My in laws will babysit on one Weekend evening like Friday or Saturday sometimes my sister will baby sit but she got a stomach virus from my kids and has been really bent out of shape about it. My mother will never babysit for us so that's not even an option. I do have a coupe friends who would swap with me childcare with me but that could also cut into our limited time/schedule. He also works 2 night at a second job Tuesday and Sunday. I could babysit those nights and not mess with our time too much but who the heck wants to go out on Tuesday or Sunday nights...not making excuses just trying to figure it out I guess.

I like how you are working on ideas for UA time!

I have a sister that intentionally schedules a date night on Tuesdays because the restaurants are less busy. She says it gives them more time to enjoy each others' company. You could use this point of view to "sell" the idea to babysit someone else's kids on a Tuesday night.

I have also been working on some games we can play together. That is something we used to do before we had kids. Which would be something we could do at home together after the kids are in bed. At this point 4 nights out is going to be a lot but if we take baby steps maybe we can work towards it.

Motg, I would stay focused on taking GIANT STEPS towards making lifestyle changes that will make a difference. You will find that UA time spent at home tends to be lousy and ineffective when you are not in love. If you want to make this work, I would stay focused on getting out on dates.

I understand you mean well here but we can't just pull money out of thin air. That is what it boils down to even if I can manage to get free child care I can hardly justify eating out 4 times a week or spending money like that. There has to be some compromise financially right now. Letting our house go and renting may be the only way to come up with $200 a week for date nights. Even if we forgo our plans to homeschool and send my older daughter to K next year I still have a 2 year old. I'd still have to work around school schedules including weeks off and all that. This is stressing me out completely. Also my kids hardly see their father as it is. They cry sometimes when he goes to work. I am trying to put our marriage in a position of importance but they are important too. I can't just switch off the children and their needs and their love for their father I'm just at a loss.

MOTG, we don't spend 200 a week on eating out so I don't know why you would. I would look for creative low cost ways to get your UA time out of the house if you want to benefit from this program. The program does not work without this step.

And I do understand that your children are important which is why getting in 15-20 hours of UA time is so critical. The best thing for your children is to have parents that are in a happy, intact marriage.

Keep in mind, you don't have to do any of these steps, I just want you to be aware of what works and what doesn't work.

Now that it's 15 degrees out there isn't much to do around here but go to the bar eat or go to the movies. We were walking together once a week during the warmer months but it's just not going to be comfortable right now in the snow. Obviously the beach is out and all the outside things we like to do together. We can probably drive through the park and see the holiday lights for about 10 minutes....any other suggestions would be helpful because I'm running out of ideas.

How about snowshoeing or x-country skiing? (This is winter hiking/walking for us northerners...)

I honesty don't know how to ski...maybe ice skating.


I re-read all the information about UA and I don't see how it is expected to only be dates and only be out if the house? There is specific mention in one part about kids being asleep. It does mention a few hours a day which I can work out but not all out of the house. Any other people with small children who can give examples on how you schedule your UA?

I think Dr Harley is writing some new articles about the difference between UA time spent at home versus going out because UA time spent at home by couples who are not in love is largely useless. Dr Harley and Joyce don't even count UA time at home for this reason. Neither do my husband and I. It is useless to us. I do know about 2 couples who can successfully do UA time at home but they are in love.

Once again, there are NO expectations at all. You are not expected to do anything. But...if you want to be in love you need to be going out on dates out of the home for a specific amount of time. It takes 15 hours to maintain romantic love and 20-25 hours to create.

"My toddler is refusing to go to sleep...for months now she has went to sleep at 8:30 now all of a sudden she is fighting sleep hard. My husband works early in the morning at 5 am and doesn't get home until 5 pm or so at night. so asking him to stay up too late is hard all though he stayed up until 11 PM with me last night. I suggested this morning I can get up when he gets up in the morning at 4 am and help him with breakfast and hang out until he leaves...he didn't want to make me do it but said it good if I want to do it. "

See, this is not really UA time. It is extremely hard to be romantic and attentive at 4am or at 11pm when one is exhausted. Just being in the same room and alive is not UA time.

Well she obviously needs to go to bed on time but getting childcare 4 nights a week is giving up just about all the time he has at all with his children. So he'll see them for a few hours on Saturday Morning and a coupe hours on Sunday morning? Yes us staying together is important to our children but you can't just ship your children off to get raised by the inlaws and just get visitation with our children. I'm not saying that all out time has to be spent with them but he wants/needs time with them and they want/need time with him too. I get time with them because I'm home with them during the day. poster find solutions rather than creating debates.

In addition to the 15 hours UA time, you need to be scheduling 15 hours of family commitment time. No, you don't just ship your kids off to be raised by the inlaws. No one has suggested that.

I'll tell you a story. One of my really good friends had the same job and same schedule as me. His wife had the same schedule and responsibities as my wife. She woke up with him every morning, chatted with him and packed his lunch. My wife slept in and I spent my mornings alone.

The fact that you thought to use this time speakes volumes of you. He (like me) would never ask you to do it, but if you can...you should. I bet he would love it. It isn't UA time but from a man's perspective...it really shows care.

Ok so this is the available time give or take sometimes it changes a little. Mon about 5pm to 10pm, Wed 5pm to 10 pm Thurs 5pm to 10pm, Friday 5pm to 11pm, Sat 8 am to 11pm, sun 8am to 3pm. So I calculate a total of 43 hours that we have. 10 pm is really the latest during the week because he does get up so early. Now we have to figure we have to grocery shop, we have obligations sometimes (like my SIL engagement party, family holidays, etc) home maintenance. I can do some of those things alone with my kids but I can't do some things like fix a toilet that he can do. Now we have to figure the kids have to go to bed at lets say 8pm. so that cuts down the time for family. So if I don't split that time he will only see kids on the weekend?

Thank you MindMonkey

Is it any wonder that your marriage is a wreck when it is the LOWEST PRIORITY in your life? Even grocery shopping and your SIL take priority over your marriage! Do you realize this? How does your husband manage to find the time to go to work?

Your marriage is much more important than anything you mentioned above. It is the basis for your children's security and happiness so it has to go to the top of the list. Everything else comes NEXT.

The first thing you should do is schedule your UA time and THEN schedule time for the less important things you mentioned above. If you have 43 free hours, then you have 23 free hours to spend with your kids, grocery shop and less important "obligations" like family holidays, SIL engagement party. If your husband can find time to go to work and you can find time to grocery shop, then you can find time for your marriage if you will just change your priorities.


Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other

I'm not saying those things are more important but are things that are sooo expected of us. My husband had to take the day off from work at his second job to go to the engagement party. We lost money, money we needed to do that but the backlash of our family avoiding that would have been great. His sister is an important person in his life and I felt like we could not refuse to do that. It was highly inconvenient for us and a 45 minute drive from where we live but his aunt and uncle and cousins showed up there. We would have felt bad not going. The backlash would have caused some sort of stress or rift that we would then have had to deal with.


I don't know a person with children who has childcare 4 nights/days a week outside of work. Not one no matter the state of their marriage.

Yes I want to commit time to my husband but it can't be 4 out of the house alone dates...we simply don't have the money or man power to do it. If there are some people who can have successful UA time at home then other people can too.


I understand that the time is important but in the real world outside of this group people don't send their kids away 4 nights a week.

Isn't it is interesting how you can find time for that, but you can't find time for your marriage? Can you imagine what your marriage would be like if you gave it the same importance? If you gave it the same importance, you could easily find time for your marriage.



I understand that the time is important but in the real world outside of this group people don't send their kids away 4 nights a week. [/quote]

In the real world, this is what people do who want to restore the romantic love to their marriage. This is what all of us did, and that is what Dr Harley and Joyce did when they had little kids. But again, you don't HAVE to do anything! It is all voluntary. If you want to have a romantic marriage, this is what you should do.... If you don't, then you won't have a romantic marriage. I just want to make sure you understand what it takes to create it.

MOTG, I want to reiterate that you do not have to do a single solitary step in this program. It is fine by me!! I have a romantic marriage but I would never dream of forcing someone else to do the same. This is entirely voluntary.

I will just tell you a few pertinent facts:

1. couples that spend less than 15 hours per week meeting each others intimate emotional needs fall out of love

2. when a spouse has an affair, they have usually fallen out of love

3. this program does not work without this step - when Dr Harley was in active practice, he refused to take on any client who wouldn't do this step because he knew they would not succeed

Does this sound familiar?

here

And the majority of those marriages are unhappy.

We are in a good spot. A 15 year old daughter pretty much means babysitter. But the previous years where we didn't have a ready made sitter, we didn't go out much. If I were to make a list of things I would do differently, going out more would be pretty high on that list. Money comes and goes, but the time you get to build your marriage pretty much just goes.

***EDIT***

I' not saying that we don't plan to go out at all because for the past 3 weeks we have planned one night out a week alone together with out the kids. We have never asked family for that much help with the kids before and we are all ready getting a little push back and sighs when confirming they are going to take the girls.

For my children dropping them off and picking them up at 10pm sucks for obvious reasons and our family support prefers to babysit in their own homes.

Another poster had put up some really neat date night suggestions in another thread but according to this more than half of those are not valid because they are meant to do at home.

Any of the suggestions of date nights I received here require more money then we can currently invest. Money is a big issue here and while it comes and goes we still have to pay bills and keep a roof over our heads. For instance someone suggested cross country skiing, it at least $50 a person for rental of equipment and use of the ski area.

I saw another poster talking about commute time as UA and doing dishes together... I don't consider doing chores UA time but I think quality tie can be spent at home when the kids are in bed...I don't think it's impossible.

Last night my husband was late home from work because of inventory. He ate dinner and we tried out a demo of a new game we could play together. We talked, we laughed, we had physical contact, the kids went to bed on time and we were alone. It counted for something. He thanked me for the things I did for him today. I told him about this thread and we talked about it.


I did ask previously and nobody really answered but any others with small children how do you get you UA? Do you have a sitter you pay? a live in nanny? Do you plan things when the kids are asleep? What do you do in reality? Has it been working?

We have a 14 month old and an autistic 3.5 year old

My elderly FIL lives with us, we asked him to move in just for this reason.

We are BROKE. As broke as broke gets right now, as our son's autism therapy is $50-100/hour at 20 hours a week, the math is horrific.

We make a coffee at home, put it in travel mugs, and go for walks mostly. We go "shopping" without buying anything. We work out. Sex is free. We do 12-15 hours, it's quite difficult I fully admit that, although we are not dealing with marital problems/affairs, we don't need the 20-25 hours either (not that I would mind!!!)

We've put a plan in place to move away (with FIL coming) so that I can get a job and have extra money for more time out.

I have to admit I don't recall the last time we went out to a social event or hubby stayed at work late, because we put our UA time first.

Correct, most real-life couples with children do not make time for a date, let alone three or four. I know girls on a baby forum who laugh about not having a date in 3-4 YEARS.

Quite frankly, their marriages are also quite pathetic too!

I live near quite a few elderly couples who are still deeply in love. They are all the same - out & about holding hands, laughing, and dating, even well into their 80s. I saw my own grandparents the same way. My own mother used to joke that her parents had six kids yet were always out alone together, and they made it until death did them part. What a great example!

At certain time of the year staying late is not really an option for my husband. They also give no notice. There are some benefits to his job, they cover all of our health insurance and can be flexible at times like when we needed to rush my daughter to the Dr and then to the children's hospital or when I was pregnant and needed weekly ultrasounds and needed his help with my older daughter. This week was pretty crappy because after he went back to work from lunch on Wednesday they said oh we have to prepare for inventory and you have to stay until 7 because we are cancelling 5am shift for the rest of the week. He has talked to them about throwing last minute schedule changes on him before especially when I was working at night it was a big deal if I wanted to keep my job. He actually fought to keep 5am shift even a thing there in order for us to have family time at night other wise he wouldn't be getting home until 7-8 pm.


It's nice you have you FIL but my MIL goes out with her friends all the time, sometimes with her husband (they are an anomaly and I will not base any validity or example of marriage on them) They both still work during the day too. My mother still works but we don't care to much for each other due to many many issues over my entire life. y mother works full time 3rd shift and watches my niece during the day for my sister so she'd be toooo tired for us any way. I have a friend that I can swap childcare with for maybe one night a week. My sisters may do a night every couple weeks so I can guarantee one to 2 nights of child care a week. I could likely make an outing on Saturday for longer than 4 hours....HAHA yes sex is free and we do that when the kids are sleeping.

MOTG,

I'm positive I had this same debate with MelodyLane when I first registered (seriously, search my first threads).

In the end, it all boiled down to excuses and not wanting to change habits.

My FIL never wanted to help us. We sat him down and said our marriage was going downhill and we were scared we would divorce - please, help us. You'd be surprised how helpful people are once you put the cards on the table.

We are stronger than ever despite most marriages would have collapsed due to our first son's special needs, me being an expat who can't speak the language here, my postpartum depression.

Do you know what cured it?

Adequate UA time. That's all it was. It's a shame we wasted time trying to find every reason under the sun other than simply walking down the street for two hours, chatting, and holding hands.

Fantastic. My 1000th post, and I'd like to use it wisely by showing you a blast from the past. The same advice to me then, still applies today.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164795&Number=2551857#Post2551857

In two years:
We are completely broke now
That young toddler is now an autistic 4 year old who is unable to function in public
We have another child

BUT...

We are stronger than ever. And it's the UA time. We are more in love now with less money and more children, than before. It really is your choice to make!

I have a hard time putting the information out there to my MIL like that. This is my feeling about it. When I first got sick and my husband was having a hard time dealing with it he ran to them and they came over our house and tried to mediate but it's one sided in a way and he's their Baaaaaby so they will always take his side over mine is my feeling. I wanted my husband to learn about what I was going through with my health and to support me so I could support him, maybe go to the Dr's with me and see what was going on. I don't look sick so a lot of people just assume since I look fine I must feel fine which is totally not the case. Then MIL said well I can go with you to the Dr's...No I'm not married to you MIL thanks for caring but The man I live with, the father of my children, my husband needs to understand this not you. After the "intervention" if you'd call it that I said no more, no more inlaws mediating our marriage. I'm afraid that if we say Oh we are having problems it will open the door for her to try to step in again. I had to ride in her car to SIL party a couple weeks ago and she brings up another couple we know who are getting divorced...their whole situation is crazy and ridiculous but MIL is not a gossip...she brought this up to pry into my head and gain perspective on my opinions. I told her my general feelings but made it not about me.

My mother on the other hand doesn't like me and has no desire to do anything for me, never has. She left me with my Grandmother and moved on with her life when I was 5. Maybe in an emergency she'd help but not on a daily or weekly basis.


SO I have either the over supportive or under supportive. My sisters are easier to work with because they don't ask questions.

Okay so what arrangements can you work out with your sisters?

Have you read this?
Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other

Well one of my sister was bitching on face book because my kids always get her sick....which is another story all together. So asking her to baby sit on weekly basis is probably going to be a no. My other sister also has a 8 month old so I can ask her once in a while I think weekly is too much. She hardly gets to see her own baby. They also live together so I can probably get a couple times a month out of them.

I read the caring for children. I have still posed the question what other people with small children do, one person replied with the fact that they moved the FIL into the house to take care of their kids. Do you have a nanny? Do you leave the kids with their grandparents all the time? Do you pay for babysitters 4 times a week? Do you pick up your kids from a sitters house and drag them around at 10PM? Do your kids sleep in their own beds at home every night? When your kids spend the night with a Grandparent or Aunt do they wake up every hour on the hour and ask for Mommy and Daddy thus making the people who babysit refuse to do over nights?

I'm asking for what other people with small children do? But instead I'm being told I'm making excuses. What do you do?

My marriage didn't make it, but I know I tried. We used to switch off Friday nights with a friend, my kids would sleep over their house one Friday and her kids would sleep over my house the next. At one point I used to pick up her daughter from preschool so they had even more time, like you had mentioned 5 to 10 pm. Then waking up together the next morning, if he's used to waking up at 5 you'd have 4 good hours by 9am. We live where it's warm all year so it was easy to walk or take a bike ride or go for coffee. But we would pick up the kids more like noon because so the kids could play longer

And then the weeks we had the kids to sleep over was good FC.

We also worked close enough sometimes to meet for lunch during the week. It's not 4 hours but the planning makes LB$ deposits and you're both looking and smelling your best anyway. And my coworkers knew I was going for lunch with my honey so their positive comments added to my LB$ for him too. Because so many don't do that. It helped me start thinking more out of the box. I had depression for a while so being able to think of new ideas was a skill I really needed to get out of that.

I don't mean to make light or anything, I remember how hard it was to find someone you really trust with your kids. My late MiL used to like to have your kids for a sleepover, too, and that was really special for them, but I hear you not everyone has that. UA was always a top EN for me but like you my ex's work schedule did get in the way of it a lot. It kept a pattern of IB going that killed us. Paved the way for huge anger issues.

I want more for you and your family, and I am hoping that you do find some ways to become one another's best friends very quickly. It is such a huge life change to go from State of Conflict back to State of Intimacy again. An awesome thing for your kids to be in a peaceful home every day.

How are you all doing with Love Busters?

What does it matter what we do? What's important is that you and your husband work together and solve this in a way that will work for you. It will very likely look different than what other couples with small children do.

The two of you must start brainstorming together to solve this problem. We cannot do it for you.

But you cannot skip this step. You must find a way to get this time in - there's not people out there who are somehow making it work without the UA time.

It's Dr. Harley who strongly advises couples to have UA outside the home. Markos and I have talked with Dr. Harley at length about this. The reason is because UA at home does not make the massive lovebank deposits that UA outside the house does for most couples. There are some that it will work with, but they are the very small exception.

Markos and I happen to be part of that exception. Dr. Harley seemed intrigued that it actually works for us, because in his experience it doesn't work -- that's how rare it is. He has found one couple in the thousands he's worked with that UA at home actually works. One in thousands.

For most couples, they will find it impossible to fill their lovebanks over the romantic threshold.

The odds that UA at home will work for you is extremely slim. It's not worth the risk of your marriage failing.

The Policy of Undivided Attention

Not Enough Time Together #1

Surely if your relatives also struggle then babysitting exchanges would work just as well for them?

Dr H says he and Joyce historcally spent more on babysitters than their mortgage because the alternative is a very costly divorce and supporting two households.

But I don't see anything wrong in getting it for free. Just exchanging with other parents or asking local parents groups or churches for support.

I don't know anyone who has made it work without UA time, so I take this advice seriously.

Surely if your relatives also struggle then babysitting exchanges would work just as well for them?

Dr H says he and Joyce historcally spent more on babysitters than their mortgage because the alternative is a very costly divorce and supporting two households.

But I don't see anything wrong in getting it for free. Just exchanging with other parents or asking local parents groups or churches for support.

I don't know anyone who has made it work without UA time, so I take this advice seriously.

[/quote]


When you are living in a paycheck to pay check position because either the husband or wife got sick and lost their job it's hard to spend more on child care then our mortgage. It's hard to pay our mortgage. We've had better and worse times since the kids were born when I had more children I was babysitting but it's sporadic. I have at least 4 families who want me to be their full time child care provider if/when they or their SO finds a new job or a job at all. For 2 years my child care was really stable I had 2-3 families that I watched kids for on a regular basis. Made every week what I was making at my full time job with out having to pay for day time child care. But right now the economy is bad and therefore so is my business. I have one child and the pay is not enough, this is obviously a stressor and makes it hard to pay for child care or date nights at all. Then my added medical expenses and the fact I changed to name brand meds to stop getting debilitating headaches from the additives adds to the whole bunch. I don't need any advice on making money and I have a friend who swap childcare with me so we can both take a part time job. She is also willing to swap child care for once a week date nights. She the most reliable person I have at my disposal at this point. Her and I also have playdates with our kids together.

I think we are doing well here. My husband has ADD or ADHD as it's now called and has a hard time reading long things so I made an outline of POJA, PORH, love busters and emotional needs. Also the one about resolving conflict. We went through it together and he has made a substantial effort to work on the issues we identified, he even complimented me on the efforts I've made to meet his emotional needs. We have been happy since we went through that together and we have not argued once about anything at all. Anything that has come up we have talked through calmly and I restrained myself from doing one of his love busters. I can only listen to what he is telling and see what he does though. He made plans for a date night tonight not me, he wanted to go to the movies but I said no. I think we are going to get something to eat and I looked through that list of date ideas someone else posted and I made a little game to play at dinner. So hopefully this goes as well as it has been.

I am really happy that you all are doing great with the love busters because it is so much easier to fill a tank with no leaks!

Coming back to say our date night went well and the game I made kept us talking about fun things and fun memories we had together. Oh and I wanted to add that he has even been telling his friends that I have been awesome. It made me feel good to hear that.

Fantastic MOTG.

So how much UA time will you have this week?

Well with Christmas coming and Most of our help is pretty busy.... my husband was asked to bar tend for a party on Friday which will bring in a good amount of money so he took the job. I started sending the kids to bed earlier so that we have from 8-10 with no interruptions (I know that doesn't count), Tuesday night he works both jobs so that's out...Wednesday I hoping to get someone to take the girls so we can go Christmas shopping together for a few hours, Thursday we will be home so likely from 8-10 again with the girls asleep, Friday is the party and hopefully My sister will take the girls on Saturday for a good part of the day we need to complete our shopping and maybe dinner or something after. So maybe we will have 10-12. After the holidays it might get easier.


Our conversations have been awesome since we started following POJA and the resolving conflict rules here and instead of fighting we have ventured out into more meaningful conversation.