My husband (SpankMix) posted to this website this morning about our current situation. He began this post in the "Emotional Needs" forum. He has challenged me to get involved and directed me to the link. My thoughts are that it might be more constructive and appropriate to move it to this section of the forum. I am interested in thoughts from this section.

SPANKMIX
I'm posting this here because I think the root of the problem stems from an emotional issue. Not sex.

I've been with my wife for six years. Married for one. We each have a child from a previous marriage and have a 1 year old together. She's been home with that child for the year or so and tells me she's feeling caged. She's 34. I'm 38. I can see how she needs to get outside of the house for some non-crying baby time for herself to be her. I get that.

Recently, she has been persued by a man (35) at one of our local night spots.She wasn't out looking for trouble. It kinda found her. She regected it for some time over several nights or months. She's very good at telling guys she's married. And that's why I trust her. I've never doubted her.

She was out four nights last week. She says he's the only man that she's ever been attraced to in the past seven years in a lustful way to want to sleep with. Generally, the guys are kinda creepy at clubs. She kissed him last Tuesday and then asked me for one get out of jail free card to sleep with him while explaining she loves me and wants to be with me when I'm old and gray. That's cool. Nice to have the reassurance. But it's also hard to hear the first part for the first time. It was a shocker at first. But I'm getting used the idea now. I've had mixed emotions throughout the past week about how to react. And I think I've experience the entire range of emotions. Rage, anger, jealously. Loss, etc. Then once I came down from all that, I began to look at this differently.

She also pronounced that monogomy isn't natural and I'd have permission to sleep with somebody if I wanted with us both agreeing on a set of rules. Yet she doesn't want to be swingers or even be considered in an open marriage because she's not sure she's planning on doing it again. Just now. Just once to feel alive, etc. To feel young perhaps. It's just something she needs to do! The sex with a stranger has to be some deep-rooted need that's going unmet. Thoughts? Or it's just a release... :-)

Sure, our relationship isn't without issues. Too many to count. Like most couples I'm sure. I know our issues and my involvement has contributed to this in some way. I'm happy that she's honest enough to come to me. That meant the world. Really.... who does that anymore?

My choice is simple. Do I allow it and it makes us stronger but not without the risk of divorce? Do I put my foot down and say no. Then she could do it anyway and not tell me? Or some combination? My gut says set her free. She'll come back stronger. People should be who they want to be in life.

I'm here searching for advice as to both our emotional state of minds.

I've encouraged her to go back to work. Take-up a hobby, Put our son in daycare more days to have more time for herself.

She's bottled-up, caged-in and anxious. I need to find a way to help her before she does this... or not... Everybody gets old. Everybody has desire to do this stuff here and there. Perhaps there's a combination of me helping her and she helping herself. We're looking for a shrink now to get outside help

BTW, her first hubby cheated on her with her best friend. I met her while cheating on my wife.I've cheated on my first wife four times. I've also been way guilty of questionable actions but never crossed the line. Nor did I really want to... otherwise, I may have already I think. I guess I have it coming :-) I should examine why I did what I did. But this is different, because she's being open and not running around behind my back. Sounds bad I know. But I felt we both learned from our first failed marriages and we made a promise not to cheat on each other six years ago. Well, here we are, and she's popped the question. And this could just be a case of needing an open relationship of sorts. While I'm open. I'm also scared of what I might feel before, during and afterwards. But if I remain open and come around to a new way of thinking, perhaps, we'll be happier than ever. And that is music to my ears.


++++++ New

Since posting this, I've told my wife about posting this. She said she may get on this thread to put it in her words. That will be interesting to have both perspectives if that happens.

Thoughts? Questions?

_____________________________
SPANKMIXSWIFE
OK I'm here for my stoning.

First of all, I appreciate my husband fairly representing the current situation. If there is one thing we can both agree on it's that am being truthful. So discussing whether or not I have already done it is not productive.

The other thing I would like to clear up is that I was not out with this guy for 4 nights last week! Not even once.

And here's where I am at. I love my husband very much. I want to grow old with him. Our relationship is anything but traditional and I thrive best this way. We both come from a long line of failed marriages (family, friends, colleages and personally) due to infidlity and dishonesty. I have always been the cheatee and never the cheater. The dishonesty would be more than I could handle.

So my unorthodox ideas are that I would communicate this situation with my husband. I have since learned in the past week, that my husband has already been tempted in this way and chose to say nothing about his night. Kudos for my honesty.

A good read, though not exactly down my alley...
"It is known that everyone is attracted to, or has sexual thoughts, about someone else when they're in a long term relationship. Yet the deceit and dishonesty that goes hand-in-hand with infidelity is still one of the biggest causes of heartbreak and failure within a relationship. So does the open relationship answer this age old dilemma, do they work in the long term and what are the benefits and drawbacks?

The issues surrounding polygamy are unresolved. Has modern life evolved to a level that's too complex for an open relationship to work, or do we simply not have the emotional strength to commit to one? But given that most of us are cheating and lying anyway, is the alternative any more palatable?"

__________________________
If you are intested in reading older posts...
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

What does "his night" mean? Have you already given him permission to cheat on you, he did, and now you're wanting your turn?

Other way around. I am the wife wanting to take a "get out of jail free" card now. With the idea that he may want one later. It's crazy and unorthodox I know.

***I am the wife wanting to take a "get out of jail free" card now. With the idea that he may want one later. It's crazy and unorthodox I know.***

No, it's not crazy at all. It's called "being single." You are fully entitled to be single and have all the men you want.

So why not just be single? Problem solved. You're out of jail and free.
Mulan

I think you have the wrong forumn.

This is for marriage building, not how to have an open marriage forumn.

It looks and sounds like a troll to me.

funny didn't know that marriage was now considered "jail".

I'm with Mulan...if you want to be free, be single.

Well, I'm not sure that you'll see a tremendous amount of people on this site recommending that you get that 'get out of jail free card'...given what most of us have been through and how much we've learned about how a marriage works.

Have you considered going to the main pages of this site and reading the information that SH has posted about the love bank, love credits, etc...?

Have you done any reading about how emotional needs are met? What they are for most people? And about what love busters are?

You really should consider doing a lot of this reading and research. The risk you take to your marriage by doing this kind of action is EXTREME. While your marriage may not be 'orthodox', the basic concepts on what creates and maintains love in a relationship still apply. Any kind of action along the lines of what you're suggesting not only create a huge risk to the relationship, they also suggest that there is already some major danger signs going on now.

If you want to remain married, you should behave in a manner that is conducive to being married. If you want to be single...then you should be single. If you want both...you're like a lot of people, but you still have to face the real consequences and risks of any choice you make.

Personally, I'd suggest that you find out what it is you're REALLY looking for, and see if you can find it within the bounds of your marriage. Seek professional help in this if you need to...otherwise, I've got no real advice for you.

SMW:

"If there is one thing we can both agree on it's that am being truthful. So discussing whether or not I have already done it is not productive."

Well, congratulations if you've agreed that kissing the OM and talking about sleeping with him, and THEN telling your H about it is "being truthful." I wouldn't agree to that, but I'm not married to either of you, so it doesn't matter what I think. ...which is, by the way, that you've "already done it."

"The other thing I would like to clear up is that I was not out with this guy for 4 nights last week! Not even once."

How do you kiss someone without being with them?

"I have always been the cheatee and never the cheater. The dishonesty would be more than I could handle."

What does this mean? Your H said he cheated on his previous W when he met you. Do you consider being a single OW having an A with a MM not cheating? I'm confused.

"So my unorthodox ideas are that I would communicate this situation with my husband. I have since learned in the past week, that my husband has already been tempted in this way and chose to say nothing about his night. Kudos for my honesty."

Kudos for his restraint, 2.

"A good read, though not exactly down my alley...
"It is known that everyone is attracted to, or has sexual thoughts, about someone else when they're in a long term relationship. Yet the deceit and dishonesty that goes hand-in-hand with infidelity is still one of the biggest causes of heartbreak and failure within a relationship. So does the open relationship answer this age old dilemma, do they work in the long term and what are the benefits and drawbacks?

The issues surrounding polygamy are unresolved. Has modern life evolved to a level that's too complex for an open relationship to work, or do we simply not have the emotional strength to commit to one? But given that most of us are cheating and lying anyway, is the alternative any more palatable?""

Actually, this sounds like it is directly relevant. I would only ask you what you get out of it? It sounds like it's full of rationalizations and justifications of poor, selfish choices. Monogamy is no more (nor less) a "myth" than polygamy. But since monogamy is more respectful of the SO than polygamy can be (after all, the partner with multiple partners has divided affections), who in their right mind would choose to be in a polygamous relationship?

From what you've both recounted of your histories, I think complicating the picture now with a tryst would be unwise at best.

But there are websites that cater to this sort of thing.

Good luck,
-Qfwfq

I agree with Lost. Why not just divorce now and save a lot of agony? What you're asking for is for your husband to enable your adultery and you'll let him have some revenge sex later on. I can't think of very many things more destructive to a marriage than what you want to do. Actually, the mere fact that you DID ask for permission for this self-indulgent, utterly selfish, bout of infidelity may cause irreversible fractures. What the heck are you thinking? Looks to me like you've been reading too many stories on some of the erotic story websites. Lady, you need to develop some self-discipline and control or get out of the marriage.

1st. I will commend you on being honest with each other. IMHO The damage of Infidelity / cheating is as much about the deceipt / betrail of trust of the spouse as the EA / PA.

2nd. I agree with a lot of what Owl says. I think you are playing a very dangerous game with your R and putting it at unnecessary risk. Can either of you say that "afterward" you would be able to look at your spouse in the same way? Do you really have an idea of what emotions you may awaken?

I would realy urge you to look at what makes you "Lustful" for this OM and look for that in your H.

I hope you can work this out between yourselfs. Good Luck.

Okay-I am not a so called expert on here.

My 2cents:
Because your relationship was created by infidelity, now infidelity is something of no meaning or value to either of you.

You choose to call CHEATING a nice little term like unorthodox.... Call it what it is, ADULTRY, CHEATING, IMMORAL and just plain WRONG...

Damaged values from an affair born relationship...hmmm I suspect there will be much work for both of you to do here.
Expect to take many 2X4's to the head for coming to this site with such a question and being two people that are products of affairs...

I am sure that I am sounding harsh on you...
Obviously you two have come to marriage builders looking for help and you are doing it together... Let's focus on the TOGETHER part of that statement...

Please read the information available on this website. Find the information about "LOVE BANK" and meeting each others needs... It sounds like to me that is the problem. You two need to learn how to meet each others needs...

GREAT YOU TWO ARE WORKING TOGETHER...
Just don't take your problems out side of the marriage for help unless with a professional counselor. The minute either of use this get out of jail free crap, your marrige will never be the same, and pointed towards your SECOND DIVORCE.

If you need help with the baby inlist some family or friends.
I have been down this road of the mom spending all day home with the baby. Then feeling all alone, isolated in solitude and also not so sexy from the new baby...
Going out to a bar and having men take note makes you feel good about yourself. Your husband needs to fill that need of yours.
Make time for the two of you together to go out to the bar or what ever... NOT SOLO while one stays home with kids...

I made this mistake just like you... Don't feel so bad... There is no road map to life.. We are all just lambs trying to find our way...

Hang in there...

I had forgotten my W reposted to this forum. Thanks for all the advice here too. I posted my most recent thoughts to this in the emotional thread. I feel things are looking-up. She's going to counciling on Friday. I plan on showing her the real me from this day on out.

I'd love to stay married to her. I Love Her. I look forward to the future. She has changed my life for the better. I need to give back the favor with a lifetime of love and affection.

A few weeks back my husband and I were on the very verge of divorce. The low may have been discovering that he had been talking to a woman in another state for many hours and many text messages, an emotional affair of sorts. He says she is a a friend of a friend recently divorced with lots of handy dandy advice. She tells him how I feel, imagine the convenience of that! (When I say "discover," I became curious when the cell phone bill quit coming to our house and so I got the phone bill online - I had previously never really checked his cell bill before, it was a gut thing.)

We have since started counseling and have re-committed to things and slowly things seem to be getting better. He agreed to quit talking with her and told her so. However, I recently figured out that she called his office this past Sunday, I presume to leave a message for him to call her. --Now technically, I shouldn't have scrolled the caller id at his office, but what should I make of this? Thoughts?!?!?

So, this woman tells him how I feel, and people around town told me how he feels. Sheesh.

Thanks in advance! Marriage Builder community has straightened out before and hoping you can help again...

He needs to print out a No Contact letter to her, and YOU need to send it to her.

You need to learn about Love Busters and stop doing them, and Emotional Needs, and start meeting them. And spend 15 hours a week together. The better you make your marriage, the less fun other women will seem.

I would keep snooping for a while. Make sure it has ended. If not, you will need to expose this EA.

Most of the time the A goes further underground and the APs get sneakier.

How is he acting now? Is he remorseful at all? Is he distant?

Don't you just love this?? A stranger telling your H how YOU feel?

My FWH's OW was also 'helping' him with our marriage. Funny.....that year that they (H and OW) were working on MY marriage....it got worse and worse...

Hi all and thank you for reading in advance. I haven't posted to this website since 2007! And those old posts seem so obsolete now. Or maybe not. My husband was into the Marriage Builders site and concepts circa 2007.

Background.
My husband and I have owned a house together since 2001. Married since 2004.
We are a blended family and our daughters are now 20 and 21 (splitting custody and visitation since they were 3/4 years olds) and are at college.
We have a 12 year old son

I am interested in some MBs advice.

We have hit a (another) rough patch in our marriage. I have felt my husband is no longer invested in our marriage and has been very involved in numerous time consuming hobbies, in addition to working many hours at his business ...

And now he has joined a gym, so far adding an additional 2-3 hours away from home 3-4 days week, mostly after work and on one weekend day. This all has amounted to missing dinner 3-4 nights each week for 2 weeks. This makes me so mad.

He has lots of mostly single friends (male and female), calls them frequently and meets them for lunch and sometimes dinner (male friends for dinner?). They are all available because they don't really have family commitments. Many of the female friends I don't really know. -- One female he calls a "close friend" that I have met a few times in passing where he DJs music once month. He was so kind to inform her of my jealousy and he says she said she respects our marriage. (How many things are wrong with this?) I am actually not jealous of her but the time he doesn't have for me.

I have stayed home with my son for 12 years. I have friends, nearly all female, but they are all married with kids and family commitments. We text and talk and randomly see each other for dinners or birthdays.

My husband often suggests if I only had a job, hobbies of my own and friends none of this should be an issue. Though if I joined him in these ventures my son would be an orphan. I feel abandoned and left to raise our son and keep most of house. I am looking to start work again, and wonder what will become of me when I take that on too.

We started marriage counseling (again) last week and were told we are a "pursuer distancer" couple. Also, my husband stonewalls me endlessly for years. Marriage counseling was his idea. He said that I don't have the tools to talk to him. I was already aware of this distance pursuer and it is not the first we've been told. My husband doesn't seek to read or understand the pursuer distance relationship. When I read about this it breaks my heart and makes me so sad. It makes me feel like I need to figure out a plan to leave. Even though thats not what I want.

Stonewalling and not being home much anymore makes me furious. I take MANY love deposits out trying to help myself. I am angry and hurt and at a loss.
I also argue with him about right and wrong frequently. (Selfish demands?)
My husband says he loves me, doesn't want divorce, has tried to not stonewall me, which usually ends in him saying means things to make me stop trying to talk.

In the MB love busters quiz, it seems I am the only one with all the issues.

Last night he said I am just tying him down.

(Mind you, I am home with our son and he is working out, taking photos, DJing, and many more)

I need to STOP pursuing? Why is pursuing considered the dysfunctional part in psychology? Distancing seems a lot more antisocial.

How to fix this? How to get this on track again?

A man who knows the MB rules, breaks them, and then drags you to counseling instead of MB?

Be calm, quiet and start snooping. Sorry, but I smell a rat.

He recently accused me of getting into his gmail account which as far as he tells me has his work calendar on. He got an email that someone from our IP address logged in from an unknown device.I haven't snooped in years. A far as I can tell, one of his old computers he gave my son went crazy trying to do something with calendars that day. But ... seriously.

Welcome back to MB. Could you tell us what name you posted under, in 2007? I found a post from 2009, but that's all, and clearly you have been here longer than that.

Your husband has form. You posted in 2009 that he was having an affair, but you posted only once and never followed through. I think you know very well that he is having another, now. Given what you say about his independent behaviour, he has probably had a few affairs.

As well as having affairs, he seems to follow the school of thought that married people should not look to their spouse to fill their needs, or even to have a close relationship with. Your husband seems to want you both to live as single people who happen to share a son. What is the point in being married, if to live such separate lives?

What good does it do for your MC to define you as distancer/pursuer? Does he or she have a strategy for how you can achieve an integrated marriage? It sounds to me as if he or she is doing more harm than good to your marriage.

You need to get to the bottom of his independent behaviour/affair. Start snooping. Put a keylogger on the device that he uses to access his gmail, and put a voice recorder in his car. If you can afford a PI to follow him when he is out on one of his independent trips, you could get the evidence you need very quickly. Your husband sounds careless, as he hasn't needed to hide much, given that he maintains such a high degree of independence without interference from you.

Say nothing about any of that to either him or the counsellor. You must not tip either of them off, otherwise your snooping will be thwarted.

I honestly don't think he's having an affair right now... but he always seems to seek the attention of another besides me. I might think he's going to the gym right now in preparation for his new single life, if he is leaving me... he hasn't said so.

He has a very long history of inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex. Seems over the years it's always some female. Inappropriate to me is that she's not my friend, I may or may not have met her, there is not a current work related relationship, and there is some talk of me... even if it was to tell her I am "jealous." They think that I am jealous is "silly" of me. However, he asked if I minded if they had lunch and I said yes, I do mind.

He says he is not her type. <-whats wrong with that statement?

I guess would say I wouldn't be shocked to find one of them lead to sex. I might be really surprised I hadn't figured it out. I'm fairly clever.

For the past few years he took up nude female photography. Mostly artistic but definitely provocative. I certainly wasn't onboard. I know I haven't seen the worst photos from that... He recently asked if I wanted to. He says he doesn't take those photos anymore, hasn't said why.

Once this place was his bible. Everyone was onboard with him. He spouted the MB riot act. I suggested he review it again. He doesn't remember...

Please tell me you are joking.

Could you tell me your previous posting name...and his?

Your husband is having an affair. He has probably had several.

You don't seem to be taking this seriously. You seem to want to chew things over, and chat. Do you care if he is having an affair?

threads have been merged so posters understand the back story. SpankMixsWife = CarolynsFingers

Well, that explains a lot. Her husband came here when this poster asked him for permission to have sex with another man. Her husband met this poster while cheating on his previous wife (with this poster? This is not clear). He sees to be a serial cheat, and at one time, they considered their marriage "open". From the first post on this merged thread:

"She also pronounced that monogomy isn't natural and I'd have permission to sleep with somebody if I wanted with us both agreeing on a set of rules. Yet she doesn't want to be swingers or even be considered in an open marriage because she's not sure she's planning on doing it again. Just now. Just once to feel alive, etc. To feel young perhaps. It's just something she needs to do! The sex with a stranger has to be some deep-rooted need that's going unmet. Thoughts? Or it's just a release... :-)"

This might explain why this poster is so laid back about her husband's affairs, and porn photography.

Carolyn, don't know whether you and your husband ever saw yourselves as having converted to the ideals of a Marriage Builders marriage, which is, by its nature monogamous and integrated. Spouses do not have friends of the opposite sex, and they do not have independent lifestyles. They most certainly do not have open marriages.

Would you say your husband was ever on board with this? If so, he certainly is not now.

Did your husband have an affair with you?

Yes this was an old post. And the thing I find most interesting is that my husband had been guilty of all the above but behind my back... and I was handing it back to him on a silver platter. He has always had some female friend on the side. I have never been able to tell how far it went. He always said he wouldn't know how it felt because it hadn't happened to him. So I posed that what if I did the same... And I had known a guy then that was aware of my husband... and his ways. And so I thought lets make a run and see what he thinks... And he came here. The most interesting thing is that I never defended myself.

He to this day tries to get me to agree to a threesome and then some. I have never and would not. I invited him to re read this recently.

It has never been an open marriage. I have never been ok with that. I am not ok with endless women... but I sure got his attention.

What is good for the gander must be good for the goose... only he didn't think so.

And I am at the same point. Lets go get a male friend and see what he thinks.


Only Im sick of this game and I want him to end it himself without the threat.

Did your marriage begin as an affair?

Did you have sex with the man in those old posts?

I met him when he was married. I was unaware. Later he divorced and I saw him again. He had 4 affairs in his past marriage. He says that somewhere. He is and was a club DJ. I figure he has a lot of opportunities. To say I was at the club 4 times in a week is hilarious. Really I am home with my kid. Must have been a great week. I would do that again.

I never touched the man in that post. And mostly the mentality was my husband had already cheated by that point but hadn't been caught. He maintains he has not. I was ready to end it all at the point I wrote that.

I do wonder why I didn't mention his b.s.. I am amused at his posts today.

I wonder how ignorant I am. I want to believe he never has physically cheated. The female friends that "help him with his relationship" are bad enough. He's lived the single life all along.

Your son learns from you two how to treat his partner when he grows up. I'm praying for you guys that you can turn away from all this and be strong for one another. We have amazing success stories here it is possible. How about asking the moderators move your thread to the infidelity section?

When you met him and he was married and you were unaware, did he hit on you or act like he was single? What happened when you met?

The way you write this it seems you are saying something happened when you first met but he concealed the fact that he was married? If that's not the case, could you please explain further?

When did you learn that he was married the first time you met? How did that unfold?

When did you learn that he had had affairs in his prior marriage?

He pursued me while he was DJing and he was married. I did not immediately know this and broke it off shortly after. I saw him again after he moved out but was not divorced for many month afterward.

This would be classified as an affairage. Dr Harley has spoken of his difficulty saving marriages that start as an affair, many times on his radio show and he has posted about it, which I will share with you below. You would probably be best off getting his help directly for your situation.

Thank you SusieQ. Will read up.