Long Time Members - Marriage Builders® Forums

Just curious. About people who have been members here for over two years. Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here? Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?

Anyone who is still married to the same person NOT seen any improvement? If so, is that because of addiction / abuse / mental illness (conditions where Harley admits MC won't work until the other problem is solved)? Or because your spouse is too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change? Or because YOU are too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change?

[ February 04, 2004, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: holdingontoit ]

HOLD, You know my story and the progress.

You know the part about me wanting to "insult his old girlfriend and mother of his child"?, well, for some strange reason, all my hatred of her has finally after 4 years, dissapated.

I am still learning things.

Been here 4 years.

Yes, still married to the same person, but a whole different marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

When I started posting, I had not been "in-love" with my DH for quite some time, which lead to my withdrawing emotionally. Which lead to him withdrawing emotionally, and us functioning as co-parents, but not much else. What brought it to a head was his depression and subsequent one-sided EA. At that point, he wanted out and I was very inclined to show him the door. But instead, I started reading here and implementing concepts. After several months, he finally agreed to counseling.

So, we ended up very much in-love with each other, and very happy we stayed together.

These days I do not post for help, but rather because I believe these concepts work (barring addiction and mental illness) and I like to see if I can help someone else get started on using them. Oh, and some days my job is just toooooo quiet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Kathi

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by holdingontoit:
Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here? Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?<hr /></blockquote>Yep.
Yep.
Not only are we still married, but we now work together from a home office. We've managed to not strangle each other in the past 10 months of working together. It's crossed our minds, of course. But we exercised self-restraint.

Great Question!

Still married! Overall, we have our good days and bad days but now recognize that it goes with the territory. What I've learned here helps me appreciate the good days and get throught the bad ones.

Greatest lessons learned:

You cannot control the outcome of any situation.

MB is a great form for sharing, You will not however, find answers here. You will however learn to ask yourself questions to make your own choices in order to answer your own questions.

Embrace your fears and move on. You can't control the outcome. Everything will be ok.

POJA is not an absolute. Accept and respect differences. Agee to Disagree, which in itself is a form of POJA!

Don't dwell on the past. Take each day at a time and practice MB concepts of LB, EN, Attention, POJA.

Pray.

Great question Hold! I have been here nearly a year, and me and mine have come full circle. In fact, through all of the ups and downs, we are doing a better and more realistic type of marriage.

It did involve giving up some bad habits! Why are those so hard to give up? They caused so much disparity between us.

But, we share more quality time with each other, the children and the dogs too. And there is rarely a terse feeling between us. And when there is a problem, they are getting resolved within a shorter and less stressful amount of time.

How do I feel? Thankful! It is like a new life, and I feel like I am alive again.

Well...I've been amember over TWO years!

Aaaaand I AM still married...legally, anyway...

But I don't think I count!!

I plead the 5th!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi Deborah..... and you will probably still be married next year when Holdin takes a poll... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by debdesign:
But I don't think I count!!<hr /></blockquote>Yes you do. You count to many of us here. We just wish you counted as much to yourself as you do to us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

But don't feel so bad. I do the same thing myself. As Starfish reprimanded me recently "remember Hold, no one gets to say negative things about you - not even you!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I plead the 5th!!

Well of course you do. Otherwise you would have to keep answering annoying pesky questions from irritating forum members such as "WHY are you still married to butt-Ed?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> and you will probably still be married next year when Holdin takes a poll. <hr /></blockquote>Hey George!!! Glad to see you still have your sense of humor!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Otherwise you would have to keep answering annoying pesky questions from irritating forum members such as "WHY are you still married to butt-Ed?" <hr /></blockquote>Ummm, wellll, I started looking up lawyers and I just couldn't afford any of them. Yeah, that's it...

OK, getting my income tax back soon, maybe THEN I can afford it?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> We just wish you counted as much to yourself as you do to us <hr /></blockquote>Aww, sniff, sniff, where's the blushing icon? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> (or is that the bj icon?)

I’ve been a member for about 2 years. I am still in the same relationship. The relationship was good to begin with, but I think it’s even stronger because I try to stay conscious of ENs and LBs. And that has given me the confidence to do what some of my friends thought I’d never do: get married!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by holdingontoit:
 Just curious. About people who have been members here for over two years. Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here? Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?<hr /></blockquote>It's been around two years for me now.

I'm still married to the same person, and the relationship has improved over the last two years.

Reasons (non-exhaustive list):
* W rewards Openness & Honesty
* We have both adjusted our expectations of each other (on the non-essentials)
* Fewer LBs by both of us
* Less selfish behavior by both of us

Nope not still married--

because of addiction / abuse /conditions where Harley admits MC won't work until the other problem is solved---

But, remarried---and I still read and post--because I know the priniciples can work---in a healthy relationship--which this one is--

I've been posting here a little over 17 months, so I'm not exactly a long time member. (Should that be long-time? I never remember the rules for hyphens.) I'm still married to H. I haven't seen any improvement in my marriage, but then, I was satisified with my marriage just as it was up until my H decided he wanted me to get pregnant or adopt a child. Since he seems to have dropped that idea, I don't have a lot to complain about, other than that I still don't know why he dropped the idea. All I heard while he was struggling with the decision to stay with me or leave was how the house was almost paid for and there were so many reminders of the things we had done together (most of them over his screaming protests, IIRC), and that he didn't have any complaints other than not having a child of his own, but nothing that sounded like "I love you and can't live without you."

OTOH, he treats me well. He does more than his share of the housework, and as I mentioned in another thread, he washed my car for me without being asked after it got road gunk splashed all over it. He's fun to be around. He's a good cook. We don't have big, screaming fights. I don't really have any reason to dump the guy. So together we are.

double post, and I have no idea how that happened.

[ February 04, 2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: elspeth ]

not quite 2 years, but, getting close.

Married to the same person.....Things are BETTER.. absolutely. Not great perhaps, but things have definitively improved.

Feel I have, and also am told by wife that I have changed for the better in the LB and DJ department. Believe I am more in tune with doing things that speaks to her needs, than speaking to the needs I THOUGHT she has, based upon my own.

We have definitively moved in the right direction in the SF area as well.. Still guarded, but our marriage has not been a celibate one the last quarter or two. Wife has done work wiht her own views about motherhood and that such does not exclude being a wife with a sexual dimension.

We share more of our concerns, even thouhg I am threading lightly in terms of being completely honest; A journey of a 1000 miles starts with a small step.

MB has definitively been a great help......

Thanks to all for the replies.

This very unscientific sampling confirmed what I suspected. Most people who are still here and still married to the same person years later have seen improvement. If they hadn't, they either wouldn't still be here or wouldn't still be married to the same person.

I do have to give baba credit for hanging in there through such a long period when she did NOT see improvement. If I did not have kids to consider, I doubt I would have her patience.

hold,

Yes...I'd say this site, and living the concepts I learned, saved my marriage (as well as made me a better individual). My marriage will always be a "work in progress" but it has evolved into a relationship I am proud to call "ours". I sleep at night....that's a far cry from all those nights I used to cry myself to sleep when I first came here. What is also amazing....is that these things have improved ALL of my relationships.

Well,

Yes, I'm still married to the same person and yes things are better. My W had moved out when I first posted here, and, after 18 months in her appt., we've been in the new house together for about 15 months. That's better. However, yesterday was OM's birthday and she sent him an e-card, so it's not like we're actually recovered - just mostly better. There are lots of ups and downs and divorce is mentioned (by me) almost every week.

For now, I'm hanging in here.

-AD

[ February 04, 2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: AD. ]

I've been registered since September 2000 but I lurked for a long while before that.

To answer the questions, Yes & Yes.

I read many books, most were good, but none had the effect of His Needs, Her Needs. Combined with the MB'ers website & forum, we now have a wonderful marriage.

And to answer the un-asked question - why are you still here? - it is to help, in some small way, others in the same boat we were in a few years ago. When I get a reply like this one <blockquote>quote:<hr />So, your story gives me hope, and I'm sure others who see it now, that in fact, love can be restored with work.<hr /></blockquote>I am encouraged to stick around.

5+ years. When I found MB, we were separated, H was denying his A with a co-worker.

We would continue to be separated off & on through the following 18 months, while I did a long-suffering Plan A through my serving divorce papers.

Recovery since 5/00. Much better marriage. Love has returned for both of us...and we're committed to remaining together, even when life and choices don't go smoothly.

Hello HOTI

>Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here?
-Yep

>Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?
-Nope

<Anyone who is still married to the same person NOT seen any improvement?
-No improvement, and none on the horizon.

-If so, is that because of addiction / abuse / mental illness conditions where Harley admits MC won't work until the other problem is solved?
-Wife has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

-Or because your spouse is too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change?
-NPD actually encompasses all of these things.

Because of my job situation, it is very likely that our marriage will not last the year. My wife is not able to adjust to less income, and I cannot take her constant verbal abuse much longer. Believe it or not, I have tried everything I possibly can.

Let’s see. Like Deb, I’m still legally married, but I filed in September.
Some people have suggested my STBX suffers with NPD. I don’t know. He is “depressed” but that’s no different than it’s been our entire marriage.

My end conclusion is we are simply too different to live happily together.

However, for the purposes of this poll, I must admit that my STBX never tried the MB principles. And he disagrees with POJA even in theory. I mean what do you do with someone who believes his own comfort or pleasure is worth your suffering?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IsIt2late:
Because of my job situation, it is very likely that our marriage will not last the year. My wife is not able to adjust to less income, and I cannot take her constant verbal abuse much longer.<hr /></blockquote>This is what I fear Mrs. Hold and I are headed for. Although cerri thinks Mrs. Hold is more flexible than I imagine.

Believe it or not, I have tried everything I possibly can.

Oh, I believe it. If we both find ourselves in the same unhappy situation later this year, we should share an apartment and get our wives to move in together. If we create a "guys house" and a "gals house", we don't have to live with our wives and we only have to maintain 2 households instead of 4. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

well, lets see, i thnk i qualify as ancient. . .

my X did not agree with HNHN, did not think we did very well on POJA, before we even learned about it. . .

i gave her everything she asked for, except money while separated. . .

she filed for the divorce. . . she asked for mediation, we went through mediation. .. . . then she reneged on mediation. . . said she wanted more money and me to have less time. . .

she has been dating, and mostly losers. . . her latest BF lives with her. . . upstairs in an empty room. . . he just turned 40 and had his first heart attack. . . overweight, uneducated person. . . he lost his teaching job. . . X is a teacher. . . . X tried to force the two families together. . . an educated and respectful family, our kids, with disrespectful, uneducated kids his. . . didn't work very well . .

X is an idiot. . . she can't make any parental decisions of any quality. . . and she loves to party and thinks having a volunteer job as an EMT 24x7 is way more important than being a parent or a wife. . .(BF is an EMT also)

i have lived alone since the divorce, the Friday after 9/11. . . have spent alot of time with my kids one on one. . .

X is going through the life change towards menopause, and i explained it to the kids, because she was just crying and then yelling. . . and they couldn't understand, so i explained it to them, made them read about it on the web. . . told them how to deal with X better. . .

as far as i am concerned, working hard on my new career, but its very slow getting started. . . very difficult to learn. . . lots of studying. . .

I have a GF that i have been dating since after my divorce, now for over two years. . . she is a wonderful ENFP, we laugh together, we solve problems together, we vacation together very well. . and someday, we might get married, but for now, we just relate as friends, and parents to our kids. . . oh, and she believes in the MB stuff, and so far it works like a dream. . .

the openness and honesty is very important. . . as well as the lack of DJ. . . . flying around. . .

good luck everyone. . .

wiftty

I rarely come to this site but I found MB 4.5 years ago, at a low point in our marriage....we were separated and divorcing. Because of what we learned and implemented from here, we got back together 4 yrs, 3 months ago, and are much happier as a couple and as individuals. Some days are fabulous, some are not. When we hit a string of the blahs, we always see that we have fallen away from the concepts...most particularly meeting each others emotional needs. Once back on track, things improve immediately.

MB is one of the best things that we have ever done for ourselves.

Tuddy

Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here?
-Yep

>Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?
-Nope

<Anyone who is still married to the same person NOT seen any improvement?
-No improvement, and none on the horizon.

-If so, is that because of addiction / abuse / mental illness conditions where Harley admits MC won't work until the other problem is solved?
- In my wife's eyes, I am the abuser. My "mood swings" are the central reason that we cannot start recovering.

-Or because your spouse is too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change?
- It's possible!

...it is very likely that our marriage will not last the year. My wife is not able/willing to have sex with me, and I cannot put up with her punishment/abuse/taker much longer.

Obligation to be as good a dad to my kids is the only thing keeping me here. Finances as well, I suppose. Also, the hope that things will turn around. Pretty bleak.

She ridicules MB.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by holdingontoit:
 Just curious. About people who have been members here for over two years. Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here? Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?

Anyone who is still married to the same person NOT seen any improvement? If so, is that because of addiction / abuse / mental illness (conditions where Harley admits MC won't work until the other problem is solved)? Or because your spouse is too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change? Or because YOU are too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change? <hr /></blockquote>Long time members? I suppose so (hanging around since late '98).
Married to same person? Yes
Improvement in marriage? Hmmm. That's not a simple answer. W never would read anything here of Dr Harley's books. OTOH, I thought I'd finally found some answers. My efforts were met mostly with rebuke or indifference, however.

Improvement? If going from frustration to grudging acceptance that there will be no real change in my marriage, then I suppose that's a kind of improvement. At least we don't argue about sex anymore! 4+ years without -- what's the point?

I still lurk (and post occasionally) 'cause every so often I still pick up a kernel of enlightenment, that I hope can help me to see a different view, or be a better dad/husband. I can't do anything about her, but I can still try to improve me, and that's something, I suppose.

Why are we still together? For the kids, I guess. And for some committment to, as Glen Campbell sang: "...the ink stains that have dried upon some line..."

Fire & Ice (formerly known as 'Doug')

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by holdingontoit:
Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here? <hr /></blockquote>

Yes

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?<hr /></blockquote>

and yes.

[ February 09, 2005, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]

hi Hold,

found MB a little over a year ago.
i think you pretty much know my story.
yep, still married to the same person.

i had been trying to build my marriage on my own.....just kind of winging it...reading whatever i could ...lots of trial and error..........kind of doing my own version of a plan A for about a year or so before i found MB........but, w/ lots of LBs and DJs.

finding MB has helped a great deal.
H was receptive to most of the concepts, but not always an active participant.
finding the the time (the 15 hours) has been difficult. yet, we do spend much more quality time together then we ever have before.
i'd say we are still a work in progress.....perhaps we always will be, i guess that's the journey of marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

still, the improvement in our communication and overall state of marriage has been very significant.

[ February 06, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by holdingontoit:
 This is what I fear Mrs. Hold and I are headed for. Although cerri thinks Mrs. Hold is more flexible than I imagine.

Believe it or not, I have tried everything I possibly can.

Oh, I believe it. If we both find ourselves in the same unhappy situation later this year, we should share an apartment and get our wives to move in together. If we create a "guys house" and a "gals house", we don't have to live with our wives and we only have to maintain 2 households instead of 4. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Hey, maybe we could start our own firm. We could be the *****whipped lawyers!! (ha ha)

Just be glad that she is at least willing to talk to Cerri. My wife refused to continue with Steve after he suggested that she meet some of my needs.

I hope your job is going well. Through a successive series of events, I am starting to work at the District Attorney's office as a White Collar Crime prosecutor. It is not nearly as much $$ as the big firm, but no more billable hour pressure.

Right now, I am seriously considering moving out, but I need to make some additional money first. The idea of being away from T is looking better and better. For the past two nights, I slept in another room, and I have slept better than I have in months. The farther I am from T, the better I feel.

Over a year ago I suggested you used, neglected, and abused MEN on MB get a huge Condo or two on the ocean and live together. Living would be peaceful and less expensive in a group.

Of course, you would probably have to divorce your wives first, but maybe not!

Many of your wives seem to just want YOUR MONEY, not YOU. They would be happier also without YOU there. After all, they would still be getting plenty "O" YOUR MONEY!

(The greedy bloodsuckers they are!)

[ February 06, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]

Ok....i have a stupid question.....

what does *****whipped mean?

i know what the *'s stand for......i just thought the definition was different than how john referred to it.

i always thought ****whipped.... was guy who was getting it and controlled by that fact....a guy who would do anything for his woman because she provides ****.

but, i have found i have been wrong about these type of terms before..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ February 06, 2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]

Nelly, you are acting like Jessica Simpson now! Do you also believe "Chicken of the Sea" is Chicken? You are nutty, girl! I say this with affection!

~~~ Oh well, let the men answer her.~~~

[ February 06, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]

Been here a little over 2 years.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Are you still married to the person you were married to when you first got here? <hr /></blockquote>Yes
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Have you seen any improvement in your marriage? <hr /></blockquote>not much,
I read the principles so I can continue to see how a true, loving marriage should be like and never be in denial that mine is an abusive one.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> If so, is that because of addiction / abuse / mental illness (conditions where Harley admits MC won't work until the other problem is solved)? <hr /></blockquote>Yes H has Anger management issues, ADD, compulsive lying,
I believe a personality disorder as well.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Or because your spouse is too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change? <hr /></blockquote>definately selfish

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Or because YOU are too stubborn and/or selfish and/or terrified to change? <hr /></blockquote>I am staying in it for my 3 year old. Once he is grown, I am out of here. I'll sacrifice the next 15 years, but I won't live my whole life with this person. I want a chance at true love. I'll be in my 40's by then, and I feel I'll still have alot of living to do, maybe even with a special person.

jessica simpson?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

thanks, baba. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
i am embarrassed to say that i have been accused of that before.
by my own son...he said that jessica nd her H remind him of what daddy and i must have been like as newlyweds.......great role models, aren't we?

i can be a little ditzy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
but, i am very open minded and do put out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

[ February 06, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: nelly ]

LOL! You are so cute Nelly! No one can explain that word since it is not a word allowed on MB. It starts with a "P". That will give you a hint.

i know what the word is!!

i just thought it's meaning was different the way John used it.

is it a guy who gets it and will do anything for his woman because she keeps giving it to him....or

is it a guy who doesn't get it, but continues to do anything for his woman in hopes that he will get it??

i guess it could be either, huh?
either way....he's whipped......because he can not stop thinking about it?

maybe i just answered my own question.
jeez....go ahead, call me jessica. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ February 06, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: nelly ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by nelly:
is it a guy who gets it and will do anything for his woman because she keeps giving it to him....<hr /></blockquote>Not that I've heard it used a whole lot, but that's the way I've always heard it used. But maybe it can be used in more than one way. Unfortunately, I don't think it is in Websters <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Kathi

more than 1 family member has mentioned that my H was "p-whipped"....
and i took as a compliment....kind of felt like i was doing my job well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

but, i sure don't think my H liked hearing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

[ February 06, 2004, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: nelly ]

Hi nelly...
Isnt Jessica great... $1200 bed sheets, she's my hero!

The term is used for any guy who looks like he's been controlled and bossed around by a chick.

Whether it's because he's getting some and it's good, or just the promise of some... and for some poor souls, just the HOPE of a promise for some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> - Dru

[ February 06, 2004, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Drucilla ]

thanks Dru.......
i get it now. well, no wonder my H seemed annoyed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
i have always been a little slow when it comes to this stuff.

Originally posted by nelly
Not that my husband liked hearing it.

Funny, I always told Mrs. Hold that I have no problem with being as whipped as she wants me to be as long as she provides a commensurate helping of *****.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Drucilla:
and for some poor suckers, just the HOPE of a promise for some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> - Dru <hr /></blockquote>Thanks for rubbing in the sucker part. Nothing like trying to do what is best for one's children, and uphold one's vows, and be described as a sucker.

Of course, you are correct. Most of us in this situation are suckers. In that we were duped. If not by women intentionally misleading us. Then by women who were misleading themselves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

HOTI,
You're only p-whipped if you are still running about saying... '(snivel) mmmm yes, dear' and and saying 'how high?' when she says JUMP.

A strong man taking care of his family would hardly qualify.

I was joking, but that was insensitive. I'm sorry. Want me to delete? - Dru

Only on MB can you find a discussion of the true meaning of the term *****whipped. This really is funny.

Unfortunately, I have had to keep my mouth shut most of the time to keep the peace. However, now she is regularly verbally abusing at me at night, and this affects my ability to earn a living because I cannot sleep. I have moved out of the bedroom and if this does not help, the next step will be getting an apartment. If she still does not stop the abuse, the final step will be a divorce.

John--

Just saw your name and thought I'd say hi. Sorry things are not better. OTOH, maybe this is time to head that way.

Anyhow, it is nice to see you...

Kathi

John, what can you do but listen to this:

http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Drucilla:
You're only p-whipped if you are still running about saying... '(snivel) mmmm yes, dear' and and saying 'how high?' when she says JUMP.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, this is what cerri is teaching me to do. To say "no thank you, I do not feel like jumping today" when Mrs. Hold says JUMP.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by holdingontoit:
 Originally posted by nelly
Not that my husband liked hearing it.

Funny, I always told Mrs. Hold that I have no problem with being as whipped as she wants me to be as long as she provides a commensurate helping of *****.

*removed sucker quote*

Thanks for rubbing in the sucker part. Nothing like trying to do what is best for one's children, and uphold one's vows, and be described as a sucker.

Of course, you are correct. Most of us in this situation are suckers. In that we were duped. If not by women intentionally misleading us. Then by women who were misleading themselves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>I think that is a negative mentality to think of it as "sucker." That's is just a lame excuse of "victim."

I think a rather more realistic thinking is that YOU chose to stay in the M because of YOUR own reasons whether they are from your values and beliefs, or even weakness.

Hold, YOU still have the choice, and only YOU can determine whether it's time to change YOUR choice.

Anyway, I'm not a 2 year poster (April 2002).

Summary:
I wanted more "passion" in M than "content."
I thought I needed more SF.
I read and learned and practiced MB concepts.
I changed ME, in handling resentment and withdrawal.
I finally was ready to share, "I love you, but not in love anymore" without LB, just pure RH.
I regret to "say" D is possible.
We're more intimate nowadays.
Unfortunately for me, I've change to believe that I'll not "fall in love" again. Or perhaps to fall back in love knowing the pain I felt back then.
I guess I choose to settle for "content" although there's more SF today then back in April 2002.

[ February 06, 2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: JM_May1986 ]

I'm sorry. I changed it. Please, everyone who quoted me, please send me your passwords so I can correct them all... - Dru

baba... you are BAD!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I joined in December of 1999, but spent probably at least 12 hours a day reading here a few months before that. I found MB about a week after Dday#1. I guess all that qualifies me as a long-time member........

Anyway, YES I am still married to my husband. And YES, there have been improvements in many ways. My husband is a better person and a much better husband than he was before.

In fact, we have both changed a lot. I don't see it, but he tells me I am a better wife than I was before, but I think I am probably not as good due to my changed feelings for him. I think he just appreciates me more since he spends so much time really trying to be a better husband!

MB had a lot to do with it, but the best thing that happened to us was my husband's IC. He still occasionally does follow-ups with her. She had been betrayed by a former husband, and really did much to open his eyes to the realities of infidelity.

It is hard to say judge whether our marriage is better than before the affair. I would say NO, but my husband disagrees. Perhaps our relationship is better, but I'm not.

Peppermint

[ February 07, 2004, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: peppermint ]

Now the real point is is up front, feeling like a sucker is taking a victim stance, and I agree it is. But I would also bet, (and win), that there is not anybody on this board that hasn't felt that.

Now to the choice's, I started reading MB over 2 year's ago, and I do believe in the MB principle's, I applied them for 6 mnth's before I posted my first post.

There were numerous moment's when my W looked at me with the look of "who is this guy"? But my W has chosen to only apply what she is cappable, and she has done a fantastic job of it.

At one point I had made the decission to move to divorce, because it was very clear to me that my W did not want to be married to me anymore. But when I put separation out front, I was met with resistance, and that stumped me, she doesn't want a divorce, but then what does she want?

So I headed into IC, and then my W went into IC and I learned of abuse, one heck of a ride began.

We are now set to move and our life is taking a major change in direction, I know my W want's these change's to happen, because there is no way I could ever make my W change, only she can.

Will there alway's be a choice? Yes, but with proper control's in place, I dont see the need to ever act apon them.

I havn't counted exactly. We've been around for several years though. We are still married and looking toward doing realty investing together and perhaps even working in our home together eventually...if of course we don't explode first.

well addiction I have and we both agree that we are workaholics so we try to work marriage builder stuff anyway, no reason we should let harley discourage us from trying. sometimes we win sometimes we lose. C'est la vie

I guess I qualify as an ancient P-whipped MB fossil. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hold, you know that constant struggle that I’ve been going thru.

Have you seen any improvement in your marriage?

Complex question for me. I’ve been married for 19 years. I lived in a cocoon for 15 of those years, meaning I never gave marital happiness that much thought, I just thought that this is just the way life was. Under some circumstances this might be a satisfactory way of life. What changed the temperament of my marriage was my increasing desire for something more and then with knowledge of MB caused a radical change in marital expectations. I get sex more, twice a week as compared to once a month in past years. W seems to have taken a slight edge off her LB’s. Other than that I’m still living with a W unable to adjust and cope. I still feel very alone and long for a solid and deep connection with a woman. So is this an improvement? Maybe, maybe not. I saw signs of improvement early on with MB but I don’t see much change or hope for change, but somehow I still convince myself that it will change and then experience disappoint over and over again. I guess you could call that some kind of self-torture.

John, like you, I’m not sure how things will be come the end of this year. I might be looking for a roommate, you interested in a 50/50 split?

Yes, still married to the same person, but a whole different marriage

OMG, Laura got her into swinging <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Take a break from the board for a bit and everything goes to pot.

So, we ended up very much in-love with each other, and very happy we stayed together.

How sweet. Sniff,sniff…. Pass the Kleenex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Promised Forever:
 Yes, still married to the same person, but a whole different marriage

OMG, Laura got her into swinging <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Take a break from the board for a bit and everything goes to pot.

<hr /></blockquote>Mo-om! Scoot is STILL making fun of my posts!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Actually, I wouldn't hardly have recognized you if you weren't kidding around a bit. So, Scott, I've been waiting for your update. Did you decide not to go ahead with pressing for professional help?

Kathi

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kam6318:
So, Scott, I've been waiting for your update. Did you decide not to go ahead with pressing for professional help?<hr /></blockquote>Yes Scott, do tell. Did you guys ever do the financial transaction that you planned to do near the end of the year? Did you give your wife the ultimatum you were thinking about? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JM_May1986:
I think that is a negative mentality to think of it as "sucker." That's is just a lame excuse of "victim."

I think a rather more realistic thinking is that YOU chose to stay in the M because of YOUR own reasons whether they are from your values and beliefs, or even weakness.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, but not all choices are created equally.

Think of buying a house with an undisclosed problem. It does make a difference what that problem is.

Suppose the problem is a leaky roof. You fix the roof. You now have a house with a good roof. No more leaks. Yes, you are out several thousand dollars for a new roof. But you eventually got what you wanted. The house you liked. Nice and dry and warm inside. In that case, I can understand how it would be tremendously counter-productive to spend the rest of your life complaining that you were a sucker who got duped into buying a house with a leaky roof.

On the other hand, suppose you buy a house with mold in the walls. You put a large amount down to be able to afford the monthly mortgage payments. It may well not be possible to remove the mold from the house. You can bulldoze the house. Or sell it for the land alone and let someone else bulldoze it. But then you have lost tens of thousands of dollars and likely cannot afford to buy another house. So you reluctantly live in the moldy house. Everyone in your family suffers from rspiratory ailments because of the mold. What are your choices? Sell the house at a loss and live in a small apartment? Live in the moldy house? Yes, you have choices. But no good choices.

We have friends in exactly this situation. They have spent $100,000 unsucessfully trying to get the mold out of their house. My cousin had to bulldoze her house because of mold. She lost a huge amount and now lives with her daughter in a small apartment. Neither our friends who stayed in their moldy house nor my cousin who moved out are happy. Both feel they were suckers who got duped into buying moldy houses.

I agree that thinking of yourself as a "sucker" doesn't help much. But sometimes it is in fact a true statement. You can console yourself that you are making the best of a bad situation. That does not necessarily change the reality that you are caught up in a bad situation.

With a moldy house, at least your anger is directed at the person who sold you he house without disclosing the mold. Hopefully, you never have to see that person again. When the person who "duped" you (or duped themselves) is your spouse, you are stuck dealing with that person every day.

I know I am making choices. That is what keeps me going. That I have chosen to stay with my wife. To uphold my vows. And for my children. I know I can change my mind at any time and leave. Not without consequences. But I can choose which set of consequences I prefer. And that is what enables me to function. The knowledge that I am consciously choosing to remain in an unhappy marriage. So that I have no one to blame for my unmet needs except myself.

But even knowling that I am making a choice to stay does not erase the knowledge that I was a "sucker" who foolishly made assumptions about what married life would be like. And who did not explore and investigate sufficiently before I got married. Marriage is the ultimate "buyer beware" event. And clearly I did not examine the merchandise carefully enough before pulling the trigger on this deal.

I know that crap happens. People get cancer. Or strokes. Or have accidents. They can wallow in self pity and be miserable. Or they can focus on the good things in their life and be happy. Clearly it is far better to choose to be happy than to choose to wallow. When I learn how to make that choice, I will happily share the good news with everyone here.

HOLD, I wish I knew what "pressure" or whatever would change around your marriage. I wish there was something.....some way.....for you.

[ February 08, 2004, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]

Hold,

I didn't realize you and I had been here for the same amount of time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I vaguely remember you reaching out to help Tak, and others saying I was cheerleading and such. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WOW! And then I read your thread of mystery. (I still think GSN has the dibs on "Most Enigmatic Posts" award, but *shrug*.) But, that sounds wonderful and I hope things only get better for you!

Check out my thread...um, can't remember the title at the moment (Something about 2 years and "what attracts you to MB"). I think it's going to turn into an update that I think will interest you and others who have watched my story on this board.

Petals

To HOTI:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />But even knowling that I am making a choice to stay does not erase the knowledge that I was a "sucker" who foolishly made assumptions about what married life would be like. And who did not explore and investigate sufficiently before I got married. Marriage is the ultimate "buyer beware" event. And clearly I did not examine the merchandise carefully enough before pulling the trigger on this deal.<hr /></blockquote>Well then I'm a pretty big SUCKER, too! (Many, many, many MB'ers qualify with that definition, btw)

But me, this has been my song... I was so stupid. I was so willing to believe the best. I should have known something was up. I can kick myself better than anyone... wanna have a go?

I think I got more the leaky roof... we fixed it, but it was VERY expensive. But, I was still the Queen of Suckerville <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

You know, I write brilliant things all day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .. and I get everyone feeling down about themselves over a stupid, off the cuff remark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I am sorry I got you thinking in sucker mode. I really DO NOT consider a man making the best life for his children to be in any way a sucker, no matter how he got there. That takes a LOT of character. Men in my family BAILED, or stayed home but DRUNK all the time. I'd have given anything to have a dad like you, and all I know about you is that you love your kids enough to put up with your W.

I didnt want to go OT anymore on this thread, but I wanted to followup on this. Please take care - Dru

Bump

JK, I think your (now retracted) church-dating-advice post was more rational than this thread!

My God! Do you think in eight years the active MBers then will look back on our posts today and think we are as equally lame?

(Pre-empting the comments - Okay YES, some of my posts won't take eight years to reach irrelevance, and YES, some of us will likely still be here, mumbling, "More UA time, dammit!", while gruel dribbles from our slack jaws.)

Originally Posted by NeverGuessed

JK, I think your (now retracted) church-dating-advice post was more rational than this thread!

My God! Do you think in eight years the active MBers then will look back on our posts today and think we are as equally lame?

(Pre-empting the comments - Okay YES, some of my posts won't take eight years to reach irrelevance, and YES, some of us will likely still be here, mumbling, "More UA time, dammit!", while gruel dribbles from our slack jaws.)

Originally Posted by NeverGuessed

JK, I think your (now retracted) church-dating-advice post was more rational than this thread!

My God! Do you think in eight years the active MBers then will look back on our posts today and think we are as equally lame?

(Pre-empting the comments - Okay YES, some of my posts won't take eight years to reach irrelevance, and YES, some of us will likely still be here, mumbling, "More UA time, dammit!", while gruel dribbles from our slack jaws.)

Hoping that in 8 years time, folks will read our posts today and say "hey, those guys actually read the book and worked the program!" When I got here 11 years ago, it was very, very different! I think I read more about 5 love languages than I did Marriage Builders.