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Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2259359
05/11/09 01:41 PM
05/11/09 01:41 PM
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serendipitous Offline
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Yay.

Sunshine - No Drama - Light at the End of the Tunnel.

Life is good ZW. hurray


Me - BW
FWH - BB -(PA Jul 08 - Aug 08)
D-Day - 8 Aug 2008
Recovering nicely


Re: Where we at? [Re: serendipitous] #2261543
05/15/09 08:38 AM
05/15/09 08:38 AM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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Not much to report today. The sun is shining. I'm feeling pretty mopey right now. I just took some St. John's Wart on a friend's recommendation. I've always been skeptical of mood enhancers/anti-depressants, but I was that way with self-help material before I found MB.

BBQ and planting the veggie garden with the lil ones this weekend. Hope I can get my head out of the dumps here.

Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2261581
05/15/09 09:24 AM
05/15/09 09:24 AM
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catperson Offline
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Good luck. Remember that it'll take you a couple weeks at least of taking the SJW for it to take effect.

Re: Where we at? [Re: catperson] #2261729
05/15/09 11:18 AM
05/15/09 11:18 AM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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Thanks, I'll keep at it. Had lunch with my parents. My stepmom tried to give me the 'pull yourself up by yer bootstraps' talk. It took my mood from moody to dark. I know I need to just get through this, but telling me to get with it wasn't very helpful. Who knows, it seems like the advice that hurts is often the best kind.

Being around people seems to be the best medicine right now. Being alone is hard.

Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2261733
05/15/09 11:21 AM
05/15/09 11:21 AM
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OurHouse Offline
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LOL Zen. I made the mistake of saying that to my husband once--about 6 years ago and he still hasn't let me forget it. It doesn't seem that bad to me but it probably sounds terrible if you're on the other end. I've vowed not to be that insensitive again.


This space for rent.
Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2261752
05/15/09 11:36 AM
05/15/09 11:36 AM
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Looking4 Offline
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Hey, Zen.

Is it possible for you to get away to someplace that has no associations with your WW? I know it's impossible to be completely away when she's there in your head, but you live in a spectaular part of the country. Could someone like your parents take the kids so you and a buddy can go fishing? Or spend time on that gorgeous coast? Head to The Gorge, go wine tasting in The Valley (fantastic Pinot Gris!), take on the sand dunes, go whitewater rafting, play some rounds of golf, go skydiving, retrace the final steps of Lewis & Clark...

If you want more ideas, I have a boatload. The main point is for you to get away for a weekend. Away from the physical reminders of her and the lawyers, hang with a friend or three, and have a blast doing something new that has nothing to do with her, the lies, or the D.

Just an idea.


Me (FWW): 45
BH: 46
M: 11/94
PA: 2/08 (4 mos)
Confessed: 10/08
DS10
DD8
Re: Where we at? [Re: Looking4] #2261901
05/15/09 03:20 PM
05/15/09 03:20 PM
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catperson Offline
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Any any kind of exercise is good...

Re: Where we at? [Re: catperson] #2262304
05/16/09 02:23 PM
05/16/09 02:23 PM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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Went hiking with a friend today. It was wonderful. Didn't have to listen to Coho whine about bugs and appear impatient and disinterested as I talked about plants and forest ecology.

Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2262418
05/17/09 03:05 AM
05/17/09 03:05 AM
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imagine Offline
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How is your landscaping job coming along for your celebrity client.

Are you managing to handle the day to day activities?


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
Re: Where we at? [Re: imagine] #2262446
05/17/09 06:08 AM
05/17/09 06:08 AM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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The landscape job went well. It was a lot of work, really fast, but I think she's happy.

I struggle with motivation. I feel like I'm at the end of a huge race and need to rest, but there is no rest on the horizon. Right now Coho is just taking the kids Friday evenings and Saturday during the day. She is making no other effort to see them or talk to them. Other than that, I'm keeping the house, paying the bills, managing the kids and working. It's what single parents face all the time, but I'm still trying to process the fact that I am a single parent. At least I've had the last 6 months of preperation - she wasn't around much between her jobs and her affair.

Most of the time I feel pretty good, confident in the knowledge that I have much opportunity ahead. The waves of sorrow seem to be hitting less often. I no longer have feelings of love for her, or at least I have to try pretty hard to find them. I am accepting that this had to happen so I could learn, no matter how painful. It's the pain of the loss of my family unit, and the hurt of the betrayal that still hits me hard at times. There are many times when I'm sure this is all a dream.

Overall, things are good. Beautiful sunny day with gardening and BBQ at friend's house today.

Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2262447
05/17/09 06:10 AM
05/17/09 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: ZenWolf
Went hiking with a friend today. It was wonderful. Didn't have to listen to Coho whine about bugs and appear impatient and disinterested as I talked about plants and forest ecology.


Hi ZW!

SWW here. Been on a bit of travel for Uncle Sam the past few days. I know just what you mean abt enjoying something without Coho griping. It is nice to have a fellow human being around occasionally that is not always complaining that they are not getting exactly what they want when they want it. My WW was usually a downright B word if what we were doing wasn't exactly what she wanted to do and made everyone miserable for it.

I don't know if this holds true for you but as i look back over my whole relationship with WW, we never had the same interests, not really at least. She always wanted to be doing something social with a large group of admirers, where i prefer to cook a steak out, travel with my family or hers, be with a smaller group of people.

Funny story (now...). The weekend i asked her to marry me we were at an alumni weekend back at my college in VA. There was a party one night with all our friends at our old fraternity house, band etc.

Well I had the whole thing planned out. We would drive over the mountain in the afternoon to her school to the top of a big hill that held some sentimental value for us, and I had my grandmother's ring and I would ask for her hand. She griped the whole way over, complaining our friends were out to lunch together etc. this is dumb, why are we doing this blah blah blah.

I figured she'll change her tune once she sees the rock.

Well, we get up there. She's like, "Ok, What!???"

I ask her to marry me. She sees the ring, slips it on her finger, says yes, is giddy for a minute...

Then say "ok, let's get back to the party..."

SWW

Re: Where we at? [Re: sickwithworry] #2262462
05/17/09 07:15 AM
05/17/09 07:15 AM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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SWW, yeah, I've been hit with so many of these cruddy memories lately. It's this process of divorcing them in your heart, not just on paper. I remember when you told me that you could see your wife as others see her. I've reached that point, and it is both liberating and sad. She is an insensitive, cold b*tch. Now obviously she wasn't that way all the time, but enough so that it caused problems with many other people throughout our relationship. I don't think many of my friends ever really liked her which is telling. In many regards, I don't think I ever really liked her, which is scary. I used to wonder why she seemed to have no core, no deep human emotions, no hobbies or interests... Funny how many excuses you make for them in your brain to justify being with someone who you KNOW isn't who need. I'm truly starting to see the relationship and marriage as a sad reflection of both of our neediness, not a healthy coming together of strong individuals. In the end, I had to go through this so I could learn and grow and make better choices in the future.

That story stinks SWW. Notice how easily you can recall it so many years later? Almost like you always knew you didn’t like her much? My proposal was pretty romantic. We hiked up into a canyon in a lush forest and I carved ‘Marry Me’ on a tree, then placed the ring beneath it. She was very happy. Funny thing is, she hates hiking and being outdoors. This is at the center of my life, so you can see how that would be a problem. There were many great moments, but there were moments of brutal insensitivity throughout. Her inability to see how her words affected other people should have been a clue to the narcissism lurking beneath. I think partly it's the pretty girl syndrome. Some good looking people never need to learn social graces and sensitivity because they gain so much affirmation from their looks, never maturing as meaningful people. She came from a really dysfunctional family. There is so much dysfunction, craziness and tragedy in her family, it’s not surprising she was damaged by it all.

I dunno, I think it’s natural to concentrate on the bad, similar to what a wayward does to justify what they are doing. Right now I think it’s just easier to look at the bad stuff and reevaluate the whole thing so I can learn. The good stuff was still good. I won’t take that away, but the rationalizing it took to get into the relationship will not be repeated.

Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2262477
05/17/09 08:09 AM
05/17/09 08:09 AM
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OurHouse Offline
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Quote:
I dunno, I think it’s natural to concentrate on the bad, similar to what a wayward does to justify what they are doing.


Interesting that you should say that. I think that my husband and I are at the end of the road of our marriage and it makes me very sad. It's not an infidelity situation so maybe that's why it's different. I could probably have capitulated at some point to be the wife I think he wanted, but I would have felt I was selling out.

I do think that we had a lot of the same interests for so many years but lately? No, not at all. Unless it involves alcohol, he doesn't seem to be interested. So no going for a walk, no hiking, no biking (unless we were to plan a stop for a drink at the end), etc. His being out of work has put a limit on what we can do---movies are expensive, going out for appetizers involves me counting his drinks and getting anxious. Etc.

But one of the most hurtful things he says to me is sort of what a wayward would do. He'll say 'I can't imagine that you have the same dreams I do anymore. I don't know if you ever did." We used to talk about retiring on a sailboat in Hawaii. That was when we were in our late 20's and the world felt like our oyster. It's hard for me to think about retiring in Hawaii when I'm working my fanny off just to stay afloat. I think I know where he's coming from but I wish he could just say something like "I know it's hard to think about that dream right now, but it's what keeps me going"--instead of lashing out at me.

Interesting Zen, that my husband's first wife was severely disliked by all his friends. They all told him not to marry her but he did anyway. That lasted about 2 years. And now he blames that decision for the reason his friends alienated him. Not sure if he couldn't have recouped some of the damage, but that was all well before me, so I can't say.

What makes me so darn sad about this whole thing is that I keep thinking about the good stuff. But I can't make myself go to the place where I have to be/be the person he wants me to be, in order to keep going.


This space for rent.
Re: Where we at? [Re: OurHouse] #2262967
05/18/09 07:58 AM
05/18/09 07:58 AM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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Ourhouse, I'm so sorry to hear this. I don't know what is more difficult; the kind of brutal out of left field experience that I had or the slow demise.

I think marriage is just plain hard and all the MB principles in the world won’t do any good if there are not two committed people who have the capacity to maintain the love. I think there are many marriages just not worth saving. I always thought mine was, and I'm unclear how much I'm looking through the 20/20 rearview lens now, but it seems obvious now that it was never what it could have been if we had had a deeper connection out of true respect and care. We were madly in love, and I never fell out of love, but I can’t say that I really admired her as a person. I admired her hard work and the way she made me feel and the care she gave to our children, which were all very important and I think kept the marriage relatively strong for most of the time. I remember always worrying that my dedication and commitment were more selfish and that I didn’t have enough respect for her inner person – frankly because this person was very hard to find, or missing all together.

When I look back at some of the things she communicated while going through this mess, I just feel like she lacked depth. At one point early on she sent some song lyrics from a pop band to express her desire to just ‘call it a day’ with our marriage. I was flabbergasted that this was the level of meaning she could come up with. No wonder she can throw away a marriage and children and family so easily. Over and over I would be talking and talking and she couldn’t seem to muster much response. She would get frustratedd that I wanted something she couldn't seem to express. DEPTH!? Then she would say that I am just more articulate or eloquent, and I usually ‘got’ what was going on. Thing is, I want my wife to ‘get it’ without me always spelling it out.

I think my hindsight is pretty accurate right now. It’s been so painful to go through this, but I am clearly in need of some tough lessons, and this has brought them to the surface. I still have a wonderful life and the most astoundingly amazing children. I’m still breathing.

Re: Where we at? [Re: OurHouse] #2263173
05/18/09 01:14 PM
05/18/09 01:14 PM
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New Zealand
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lildoggie Offline
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Quote:
nteresting Zen, that my husband's first wife was severely disliked by all his friends. They all told him not to marry her but he did anyway.


Flicks friends all put bets on our marriage, I think the longest was 6 months. Not many of them liked me, mind you, none of them said this to my face, i just heard about it back ways KWIM?
We lasted 13 years until HE had an A.

I don't think highly of the thoughts of friends


Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday laugh
Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2263174
05/18/09 01:15 PM
05/18/09 01:15 PM
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New Zealand
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lildoggie Offline
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Zen,

I am sorry hat all your hard work did not lead to recovery. I know that you can say you tried with every bit of you.

Quote:
I think my hindsight is pretty accurate right now. It’s been so painful to go through this, but I am clearly in need of some tough lessons, and this has brought them to the surface. I still have a wonderful life and the most astoundingly amazing children. I’m still breathing.

Im glad to hear this, and I know your kids will know that daddy tried.
hug


Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday laugh
Re: Where we at? [Re: lildoggie] #2263584
05/19/09 07:36 AM
05/19/09 07:36 AM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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Was feeling really motivated and optimistic this morning. Just starting to feel human again. It's wonderful to wake up looking forward instead of feeling trapped.

This was dulled by communication with Coho, all business, but just having to interact at all is hard. I'm tryingto pull my head out again and get back to feeling good.

I think she'll have the divorce papers and settlement agreement in her hands by Friday. I can't wait.

Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2263721
05/19/09 11:36 AM
05/19/09 11:36 AM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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I had the first kind of normal co-parenting conversation with Coho today. She had written a note about seeing the kids before or after school and I expressed my boundaries and accepted schedule and told her I would prefer not to see her, but wouldn't prevent her from seeing the kids as long as I can confirm the OM isn't ever around them and we establish a regular schedule while the divorce is processing. She was sensitive and apologetic again, in her cold alien way, but better than fighting.

Later she called about buying them some clothes while she was at the store. It was a normal conversation and didn't leave me anxiety-ridden. Here's to the future!

Re: Where we at? [Re: ZenWolf] #2263739
05/19/09 12:04 PM
05/19/09 12:04 PM
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catperson Offline
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Sounds like progress.

Re: Where we at? [Re: catperson] #2263784
05/19/09 01:40 PM
05/19/09 01:40 PM
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ZenWolf Offline OP
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Yeah, I can feel my humanity returning.

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