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Originally Posted by sabliving
i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore.

That doesn't make any sense to an adult, how could it possibly make sense to a child? At best you taught your kids that you will leave them too if you don't "get along" with them. You sent them the message that marriage is cheap and disposable. Are they to abandon any of their relationships in life because they don't get along with someone too?

Kindergardners are taught how to get along with others so I don't think kids believe that is a legitimate reason to get divorced. Not getting along is a problem to be solved, not a reason to break up a family.

My parents lied to me in a similar way when I was a child and all it did was teach me to doubt my own instincts. I knew something was not right when I met one of my dad's OW but since no one would validate that instinct, I concluded I must be a stupid girl. My parents false explanations caused great confusion and self doubt.

Don't play with your kids' heads like that, Sab. Tell them the truth. They already know some of it, they just need to hear the facts from you and get some moral guidance.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by sabliving
the kids were always our first priority. We did dual parenting and also did fun stuff as a family together.


I hardly think you can say that when youve been lying to them all this time.

Originally Posted by sabliving
i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore. But we very much stressed that we both love them, its not their fault and that we are always there for them if they want any parents at any given time.


You gave them the impression that people fall out of love the way people get over a cold. this is massively confusing for kids. They then think love is unstable and untrustworthy.

This is a lie. The truth is your H destroyed the m with an affair. Then you had an A too.

They will have seen more than you know. Kids hide and listen when things dont make sense. And you will have been too high and too foggy to really notice this.

Originally Posted by sabliving
my husband asked my son if he was crying because mommy does not live here anymore. And thats where i draw the line, i personally find it manipulating and am still not agreeing to talk to my kids about any of the things we did.


If your child was upset, your husband did the right thing in telling him he could ask about ANYTHING that was affecting him. The right thing in naming the most likely cause of his child's upset.

Refusing to speak to your children about the TRUE source of their pain is uncaring. Are they supposed to pretend they are upset about something else? Accept your weak lies that people just fall out love?

Originally Posted by sabliving
I told him that what mommy and daddy do is out of his power and not to worry about us, i told him that we love both of them very much and to think of things that make him happy instead of worrying.


That's horrendous. Telling him that you wont take his worries into account and you will do as you please. And then lie about it.

Couldnt you have told him the two of you WILL do things to resolve his worries? Worries that he has a right to feel and express?

And you did not think of that, when you had your affair, did you? The time for that type of thinking is over.

It's clear you are demonsiing your H to lessen your guilt with the example of him speaking honestly to your child. guilt of what you did. Guilt that you lie and continue to lie.

Speaking of your guilt:

Originally Posted by sabliving
i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.


This is in large part because you are still a secretive dishonest person. If you show a good example and are honest whne you make mistakes, your poor opinion of yourself will improve.

No one else, not your children, no one, will think you deserved this treatment.

Because no one does.

It is the secrecy that is giving this idea its power over you.

The truth will set you free.

Last edited by indiegirl; 06/18/12 08:18 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I wanted to give you some links of what Dr. Harley says about telling the children.

Infidelity:The Lessons children learn
Exposure 101

Found a radio clip from Dr. Harley telling children even as young as 4.
The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by sabliving
I changed my phone number yesterday, we deleted Facebook, i sent the OM one of these letters. i do not want or will talk to him anymore. Since this person was the same kind of what i experienced before, it makes it a lot easier to forget because for one i'm not proud of what i did and having to treat someone me such low respect. i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.
I'm not sure if anyone is willing to believe me but i'm glad this is over, its a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.
However now i'm facing the facts at home, We still very much struggle with this recent bomb but in contrary i'm also facing my Husbands actions from the past since i never got over that.
For example, this morning my husband wanted to be intimate with me but i couldn't, its not because of the OM, its because i'm not ready for that yet but he got frustrated because he feels emasculated. I can understand his point of view but am not sure what to do. I do not want to feel like i'm a piece of body to someone anymore that is being used by anyone. But my husband is under the impression that especially after the news yesterday, i should want to have sex with him because he is willing to work on our marriage.
At this point my emotions are changing by the hour, i'm trying my hardest to think logically but being very overwhelmed does not help this situation.
My husband also gets very frustrated that i am unable to tell him that i love him

I believe you, sab. Having to sneak around and hide this relationship had to be sapping the very soul out of you and was surely a tremendous burden. Honesty is refreshing.

I am sure that Joe is very impatient to recover your marriage (i.e., make things good again) and is probably a little bit clueless about how that is going to play out. I believe husbands tend to be a little bit clueless about a lot of relationship things. Even when husbands seem like they get a lot more than the average guy, we can still miss a lot.

That cluelessness can lead to some massive insensitivity. Joe likely feels (as is normal for a guy) that sexual bonding would be great for you guys right now. He may even be right about that, a lot of couples do go through a period of what's sometimes called "hysterical bonding" after an affair. But it's not right if it's done in a way that you're not enthusiastic about, and if he's getting frustrated that you declined, he is likely to become demanding, disrespectful, or angry.

If he does, it is important that you complain to him about it, clearly and respectfully. He needs to understand that if you guys are going to recover your marriage (as he wants) that both of you are going to have to adopt an attitude of no tolerance towards demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts. Say something like: "I am not enthusiastic about sex right now, and I find the way you are acting about it disrespectful."

If you get the chance to look over Dr. Harley's articles about sex and mention that to Joe, particularly the article on overcoming sexual aversion, it may give Joe hope that you'll be interested in talking about this emotional need down the road, and may help him be a little more calm about it. Right now my take is that you guys probably have bigger emotional issues to cover first. The sooner you can get there the better, but not if it leads to emotional harm for one or both of you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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sab, what is this about Joe's affair with a neighbor six months ago? Is this neighbor still around?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by sabliving
i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.

And you think your moods & attitudes do not effect your children?
That's the mother of your children you're talking about.
If you somehow earned bad treatment, then it makes sense to conclude you can also earn excellent treatment.

If your kids have a Mom who "deserves" to be treated like crap, by logical sequence, they also deserve a crap sandwich.

Quit talking stupidly. The drama dramaqueen from their mama does not help your kids.


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My husband also gets very frustrated that i am unable to tell him that i love him

Fine, Instead say: "I respect you." For now, that is a love bank deposit you can make.

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Hey guys, She is very upset at me for starting the exposure process. She brings the past up and constantly says "I didnt do that to you"
We had not found MB at taht point.
I have been telling about my past as well as hers in the exposure so that its not an attack, but she still views it that way.
She is extremely mad for me exposing at OM work, saying that he will get in trouble.
I asked and the most he will get is a stern talking to and a no contact letter. His career will not be ruined unless I provide proof. (yes its that kind of career).
How can I continue the exposure and explain to her that I do not mean to hurt her, just to stop the fog and the OM from ever coming back.

She got so mad that she yelled at me, threw the past in my face and left the house again back to her town home.
I will see if she can let me come by in a little bit. I hate to leave her alone if this POSOM shows up.
And I would really love for her to move back into the house. Its so hard to trust when she is over there.


Me: FWS/BS recovering alcoholic (2 yrs sober)
Married 9.5 years
2 kids ages 6,7
DDay: 17 June 2012 (worst fathers day ever)
Status: in plan A, exposure done, WW moved out
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention;
Joyce Harley called me. It was such a pleasure, and I may be on the show some time after the 4th of July.
I asked her about exposure to the kids and told her there ages.
She said that if my wife is on board with recovery then exposure to them can wait until they are a little older.
I forgot to ask, does that mean that if she stays in her rental should I expose, and if she stays in the house and works the program should I wait? I got a little confused.
She will really hate this one, and is dead set against it. I really dont want to, to be honest. Is it worth her hating me?


Me: FWS/BS recovering alcoholic (2 yrs sober)
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2 kids ages 6,7
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Start your own thread please!

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Originally Posted by JOEneedshelp
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention;
Joyce Harley called me. It was such a pleasure, and I may be on the show some time after the 4th of July.
I asked her about exposure to the kids and told her there ages.
She said that if my wife is on board with recovery then exposure to them can wait until they are a little older.
I forgot to ask, does that mean that if she stays in her rental should I expose, and if she stays in the house and works the program should I wait? I got a little confused.
She will really hate this one, and is dead set against it. I really dont want to, to be honest. Is it worth her hating me?

Joe, I imagine you just misunderstood. You should always tell the children no matter what the state of recovery. That is Dr Harley's standard advice and has been for years. I posted Dr Harley's quotes on the issue.

And don't worry about your wife getting upset about exposure. She was still holding the OM out as an option and wasn't really done with him. That is why she is so angry about exposure.

If the OM gets fired it will be due to his affair, and nothing else. What kind of occupation is he in?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by JOEneedshelp
She will really hate this one, and is dead set against it. I really dont want to, to be honest. Is it worth her hating me?

Anger over exposure is due to the fog so don't worry. It is like taking the car keys away from a falling down drunk. Sure, he is angry at first, but he appreciates it when he sobers up.

Rememeber, the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid your wife's anger at all costs.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Joeneedshelp,


She is extremely mad for me exposing at OM work, saying that he will get in trouble. I asked and the most he will get is a stern talking to and a no contact letter. His career will not be ruined unless I provide proof. (yes its that kind of career).

Then provide proof and push the issue through, if I'm reading between the lines correctly OM uses his job as a means to get affair partners. Is he a preacher?

Getting him fired will not put him back to your WW, but will provide a very very negative association every time he thinks of his affair with your WW.

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Gamma; 06/18/12 06:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Gamma
Joeneedshelp,


She is extremely mad for me exposing at OM work, saying that he will get in trouble. I asked and the most he will get is a stern talking to and a no contact letter. His career will not be ruined unless I provide proof. (yes its that kind of career).

Then provide proof and push the issue through, if I'm reading between the lines correctly OM uses his job as a means to get affair partners. Is he a preacher?

Getting him fired will not put him back to your WW, but will provide a very very negative association every time he thinks of his affair with your WW.

God Bless
Gamma

Its military. Its against the UCMJ.


Me: FWS/BS recovering alcoholic (2 yrs sober)
Married 9.5 years
2 kids ages 6,7
DDay: 17 June 2012 (worst fathers day ever)
Status: in plan A, exposure done, WW moved out
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Joeneedshelp,

Was he her commanding officer or in some position of authority over her?

And your reasons for not getting him court marshalled are? I've seen enough predatory individuals in the military and the effects they have on military families that I think you would be doing our country a service.

God Bless
Gamma

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JOEneedshelp:

My position on exposure to children has been consistent over the years for a host of reasons: Tell them about the affair as soon as you discover it. The primary reason for this type of exposure is that they should know eventually anyway, even if the marriage is on the road to recovery, because it gives them accurate information about what their mom and dad are going through. If the marriage is headed for recovery, the unfaithful spouse is usually willing to go along with the revelation. But if the affair is still ongoing, or if the recovery is not very solid, the unfaithful spouse will resist the exposure, and become very upset when it's made. Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair. Affairs don't always die a natural death, but exposure speeds up whatever would have happened without it.

Joyce is correct in observing that it's a tough call when the children are 6 and 4, and she tells me that she didn't say not to tell them, but left if up to Joe's judgment. But my position has been that, tough or not, it's the right thing to do. When the marriage is recovered, it's a great lesson for the children to explain how vulnerable parents are to this very insidious enemy of marriage.

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Quote
We still very much struggle with this recent bomb but in contrary i'm also facing my Husbands actions from the past since i never got over that.
That's not important now. Get your priorities straight, sab.
Quote
For example, this morning my husband wanted to be intimate with me but i couldn't, its not because of the OM, its because i'm not ready for that yet but he got frustrated because he feels emasculated.
It's because you have fallen out of love with him. Do the work that you are given here. That will fall into place.

Are the two of you spending UA time together? The kids are gone for the week? Jump on this! Spend every minute together that you can. Do FUN things - don't spend your time talking about the affair. If your BH needs to talk about it (and he will) set a time to discuss it, and then take a break and do something that both of you enjoy.


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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Thank you so much for the clarification, Dr. Harley!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Even when we were completely separated, the kids were always our first priority.
MISTAKE. Your first priority needs to be to your spouse. If your relationship with your spouse is healthy, the children benefit. If you neglect that relationship in favor of a bunch of little kids, the little kids get to grow up in a broken home. See the importance? You should.
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When i moved out last year, i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore.
Why would you tell them a crappy thing like this? You are teaching them that, when parents have a difference of opinion they split up. How ridiculous! Why would you manipulate your children this way?? naughty Sometimes mommies and daddies don't get along...AND THEY WORK OUT THEIR DIFFERENCE. Doesn't that sound a little better for your children? Wouldn't they feel safer if you said that, instead of that contrived crap you came up with to give yourself permission to screw OM?


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Thank you so much for the clarification, Dr. Harley!
Whew! I was confused for a second! Thanks, Dr. Harley!


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair. Affairs don't always die a natural death, but exposure speeds up whatever would have happened without it.

Joe, just wanted to make sure you saw this quote from Dr. Harley!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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